# Who needs plants, anyway!?



## George Farmer

I'm trying marine soon too...


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## Joecoral

Nice shot, looks great George! Like the naturalness of it   



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'm trying marine soon too...



Reef or fish only? Gimme a shout if you do take the plunge, I may be able to recommend a thing or 2


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## aaronnorth

looking forward to the marine, if done correctly they can be stunning, but on the other hand i also think they can be bad to look at in some cases, not sure why though  

That tank looks nice too


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## andy

I have a lovely 18" cube sitting in my shed...all drilled for a sump just waiting for that time to set up a nano reef.  Kept reefs for over 20 years but the allure of the planted tank made me give up.

Good luck


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## George Farmer

Joecoral said:
			
		

> Nice shot, looks great George! Like the naturalness of it


Thanks mate!  

I'm really getting into the biotope thing.  They'll always be a special place in my heart with regards growing and aquascaping with plants but it's also rewarding to see fish in what appears to mimic they're natural habitat a little more closely.

What's also very rewarding is the steep learning curve I'm on right now.  I've learnt more about the country of Cambodia today than I ever did in geography.  lol

The marine thing is a few months away yet.  Thanks for the offer of advice.



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> That tank looks nice too


Thanks mate!



			
				andy said:
			
		

> I have a lovely 18" cube sitting in my shed...all drilled for a sump just waiting for that time to set up a nano reef.  Kept reefs for over 20 years but the allure of the planted tank made me give up.
> 
> Good luck


Thanks, Andy.  I wonder how many switch from marine to planted and vice-versa?  Interesting.  I know there's plenty of guys that do both too, of course. 

It's an awesome hobby, whatever your taste...


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## andy

George Farmer said:
			
		

> andy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a lovely 18" cube sitting in my shed...all drilled for a sump just waiting for that time to set up a nano reef.  Kept reefs for over 20 years but the allure of the planted tank made me give up.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Andy.  I wonder how many switch from marine to planted and vice-versa?  Interesting.  I know there's plenty of guys that do both too, of course.
> 
> It's an awesome hobby, whatever your taste...
Click to expand...


well i started off with trops 35 years ago and went into marines.  But i'd always had this compulsion to breed Siamese fighting fish (which i did very successfully last year) and to just buy nice tropical fish and plants.  So i packed the reef in and i love my planted tank.

As i said, i'll definately set up a nano with just a breeding pair of emperor cardinals or Pearly jawfish in.

I've got 2 ponds too....goldfish pond and a 3,000 gallon koi pond.  Who said this hobby was an obsession !!!!!!!!!!!


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## LondonDragon

Nice shot George, looking forward to the article


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## CeeBee

I thought I wanted marine until I stumbled across photographs of planted tanks.  

The colours and textures in that shot are superb.


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## JamesM

Beautiful shot, such lovely colours.


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## nry

George Farmer:

Ex Aquatic Plant Guru.

  Stunning, and as always, a small glimpse of what will look even better as a full shot!


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## John Starkey

Hi George,sorry my friend but at the moment that just does not do it for me,i realise that the amazon, as one example looks like this and this is the natural habitat what most of the fish are used to (if wild caught) ,if you where actually in the amazon on a field trip then superb to see it as it realy is,but in my front room i like my setup to look a bit more tastefull,its very rare to get any wild caught fish these days and most are far removed from there natural habitat,BUT by the same token if someone wants to create a biotope of some far flung continent then there is no harm in that afterall it can be nice to see but it just doesnt do it for me,

regards john.


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## JamesM

I agree to some extent, but only because I have a small house and would rather have a planted tank. I'd love something like this in the office though.


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## George Farmer

Good point, John! 

Don't get me wrong - I couldn't live with this style of tank long-term per se.  I'm more excited about the learning experiences than the aesthetics right now.

It's interesting, as I'm sure as I attempt more biotopes - non-planted, fully planted, marine, brackish, temperate UK etc. I'll gather new ideas and techniques that I can take forward to my big long-term project I have planned for my living room....

Cheers, all!


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## Mark Evans

f/1.0 eh?....  who's showing off now then....great depth mate.

but iso 400?....1/400 ? surely with that speed George  you could muster up a shot with iso 100?  8)


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## John Starkey

JamesM said:
			
		

> I agree to some extent, but only because I have a small house and would rather have a planted tank. I'd love something like this in the office though.



Hi James,now a biotope tank of austrlian rainbow fish would look good plants and all,
regards john.


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## JamesM

Totally, but I have a thing for the dark and miserable too  I thinking of a dark gloomy scape with some blind cave fish...


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## John Starkey

JamesM said:
			
		

> Totally, but I have a thing for the dark and miserable too  I thinking of a dark gloomy scape with some blind cave fish...



Thats funny    regards john.


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## John Starkey

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Good point, John!
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I couldn't live with this style of tank long-term per se.  I'm more excited about the learning experiences than the aesthetics right now.
> 
> It's interesting, as I'm sure as I attempt more biotopes - non-planted, fully planted, marine, brackish, temperate UK etc. I'll gather new ideas and techniques that I can take forward to my big long-term project I have planned for my living room....
> 
> Cheers, all!



Hi George,i see your point about the learning curve knowledge is good, and i am still looking forward  to seeing and reading about what you come up with,where you find the time i just dont know,cudos mate,
regards john.


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## Garuf

is this a Sumatran black water scape? There's some really good photos on a nature blog I used to read if so, I'll try and find the link on the old history lists. 
I can't wait for the marine one, never have liked marine tanks, would be good to see what someone "fresh" (see what I did there?   ) tries one.


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## nry

If the layout is aesthetically pleasing then, plants or no plants, it is still aquascaping and can still look amazing


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## Superman

I like these type of things, there was the chocolate gourmi setup a while ago that I loved.
I don't think I'll go for it in my tanks but appreciate it's beauty as I try and get something for the fish as natural as possible.


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## Dave Spencer

First no CO2, and now no plants. You are in serious danger of being booted of this forum, sir.  

Dave.


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## George Farmer

saintly said:
			
		

> f/1.0 eh?....  who's showing off now then....great depth mate.
> 
> but iso 400?....1/400 ? surely with that speed George  you could muster up a shot with iso 100?  8)


Not sure where/how you got that info mate.  But thanks anyway. 

It's 17mm, f/2.8, 1/400, ISO 800.  Taken with my trusted 17-70mm Sigma.   The noise difference is virtually indistinguishable up to ISO 800, so I'm just lazy most of the time and fire away at ISO 800.

I wish I could afford an f/1.0 lens...! lol



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> First no CO2, and now no plants. You are in serious danger of being booted of this forum, sir.
> 
> Dave.


He he.  Don't worry mate, I've still got my nano planted up and intend on getting a big 180cm opti-white NA-style in the longer-term.


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## Fred Dulley

Marine eh? Strive for no nitrates or phosphate this time   
Love the pic btw.


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## George Farmer

Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Marine eh? Strive for no nitrates or phosphate this time
> Love the pic btw.


Nah.  Macroalgae loves 'em!


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## Mark Evans

Right click properties George. It gave me the shooting data of the image


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## Fred Dulley

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Fred Dulley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marine eh? Strive for no nitrates or phosphate this time
> Love the pic btw.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah.  Macroalgae loves 'em!
Click to expand...


Ah. Didn't realising you were opting for some macroalgae. My mistake   
I've never taken the plunge into marine (money), but looking after them at the LFS has been a joy!


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## George Farmer

saintly said:
			
		

> Right click properties George. It gave me the shooting data of the image


Weird.  It's wrong data when you do that.  PCs eh?!    

If you copy the image to CS3>File>File Info>Camera Data 1 then you'll get the real data, as I posted.


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## Dan Crawford

Looks quality mate, i can't wait to see it in the flesh.


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## George Farmer

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Looks quality mate, i can't wait to see it in the flesh.


Better hurry mate!  I'm on to the next one soon...


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## LondonDragon

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Better hurry mate!  I'm on to the next one soon...


How long you going to keep each setup going for? Just for some photos and the learning curve?


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## George Farmer

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Better hurry mate!  I'm on to the next one soon...
> 
> 
> 
> How long you going to keep each setup going for? Just for some photos and the learning curve?
Click to expand...

Not long enough really, but I'm on a tight deadline for each feature for PFK.


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## aaronnorth

George Farmer said:
			
		

> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right click properties George. It gave me the shooting data of the image
> 
> 
> 
> Weird.  It's wrong data when you do that.  PCs eh?!
> 
> If you copy the image to CS3>File>File Info>Camera Data 1 then you'll get the real data, as I posted.
Click to expand...


I got the same as you Mark, but once downloaded i got the "correct" information :!:


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## George Farmer

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
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> 
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> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right click properties George. It gave me the shooting data of the image
> 
> 
> 
> Weird.  It's wrong data when you do that.  PCs eh?!
> 
> If you copy the image to CS3>File>File Info>Camera Data 1 then you'll get the real data, as I posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I got the same as you Mark, but once downloaded i got the "correct" information :!:
Click to expand...

You can't trust Windows... lol


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## aaronnorth




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## LondonDragon

I actually checked the EXIF info straight away and also spotted the f1.0 but thought it as an error as I never saw george mention a new lens, and f1.0!! But that DOF couldn't be f1.0 really, then again I naver had a f1.0 lens  my best one is 2.8


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## George Farmer

Canon used to do a 50mm f/1.0 but replaced it with the f/1.2 in 1989.  Retail was $2500 way back then.

One of Canon's best lenses is the 85mm f/1.2.  One day maybe... Along with a FF sensor.


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## Stu Worrall

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Canon used to do a 50mm f/1.0 but replaced it with the f/1.2 in 1989.  Retail was $2500 way back then.
> 
> One of Canon's best lenses is the 85mm f/1.2.  One day maybe... Along with a FF sensor.


a girl at college has one of the 85mm 1.2L's which i tried the other week,  instantly fell in love with the DOF for portraits!


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## Dave Spencer

The bokeh should be quality, too!

Dave.


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## Tony Swinney

Lovely pic George - the colours are beautiful   

The metadata reads correctly in Bridge by the way     The photographer I assisted when I first came to London shot on a Leica R8, with their 50mm F1 lens   The (lack of) depth of field you could get with it was just amazing !

Tony


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## George Farmer

Tonser said:
			
		

> Lovely pic George - the colours are beautiful
> 
> The metadata reads correctly in Bridge by the way     The photographer I assisted when I first came to London shot on a Leica R8, with their 50mm F1 lens   The (lack of) depth of field you could get with it was just amazing !
> 
> Tony


Thanks mate.  

Sounds like a very cool job...


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## aquaticmaniac

Nice shot, George. Is this your biotope? FTS?


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## oldwhitewood

Applaud the biotope idea even if it is a bit worrying that you are looking at stuff which is none NA related. You've done a great deal for the hobby in the UK mate. Even if you look at it from one angle alone PFK has a lot more stuff related to NA tanks and stuff of that nature, we never had that before that's for sure. 

I too have often thought of going and doing a marine tank, I did have one about 5 years ago where I kept common clowns, green chromis, hermit crabs, turbo snails and brown alage. The live rock was particularly interesting, seeing weird stuff growing on it, feather dusters emerging etc but the whole tank just got destroyed with algae and I had to take it down, I was just using tapwater so that was probably the reason. The clownfish I kept though I will never forget, they're such interesting characters coming to greet you when you come in, and the colours of the fish are just breathtaking. 

If you approach this marine project with your aquascaping hat on it would be pretty interesting to see something aquascaped with thought rather than just pilling live rock up the back wall of the tank.


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## Joecoral

oldwhitewood said:
			
		

> rather than just pilling live rock up the back wall of the tank.



Not a lot of people do this anymore. There are some really well scaped tanks out there at the moment, have a browse of some reefing forums and you'll find some stunners about


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## oldwhitewood

Joecoral said:
			
		

> oldwhitewood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rather than just pilling live rock up the back wall of the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a lot of people do this anymore. There are some really well scaped tanks out there at the moment, have a browse of some reefing forums and you'll find some stunners about
Click to expand...


I'll have a look sure, as I say 5 years ago was when I was into it. If you can recommend any images I would love to see them.


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## Mark Evans

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/#a=0 ... 0&s=17&p=5


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## TDI-line

I just don't get it.

How can you hold the hair dryer for the ripple effect, scare the fish to shoal, and take the shot.  

Btw, great pic.


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## oldwhitewood

saintly said:
			
		

> http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=17&p=5



It's good don't get me wrong, I guess the aquascape bit comes with choosing the different corals and stuff. Where's the form though to me it's just a big mound? It looks bloody impressive though.

Thats what I think will be interesting; where you can take a marine tank in terms of design to make it different. I always go back to some of the marine tanks in the ADA gallery, they're quite interestingly scaped in a way I've never seen before.


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## Mark Evans

TDI-line said:
			
		

> How can you hold the hair dryer for the ripple effect, scare the fish to shoal, and take the shot.



i have something thats called a "wife" there great little things for jobs such as....holding hair-dryers, mopping up spills....the list is endless.   now, now folks I'm not really being offensive...trust me, with my wife,i dare not



			
				oldwhitewood said:
			
		

> It's good don't get me wrong, I guess the aquascape bit comes with choosing the different corals and stuff. Where's the form though to me it's just a big mound? It looks bloody impressive though.
> 
> Thats what I think will be interesting; where you can take a marine tank in terms of design to make it different. I always go back to some of the marine tanks in the ADA gallery, they're quite interestingly scaped in a way I've never seen before.



just shows you i don't know what I'm looking at when it comes to these things. i've never seen them as good as that, but i guess it's like a planted tank with healthy plants but not scaped well?.......

i've never been a fan TBH


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## George Farmer

aquaticmaniac said:
			
		

> Nice shot, George. Is this your biotope? FTS?


Thanks!  

No full-tank shot yet, but look out for a short video clip on the PFK site, soon.



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> I just don't get it.
> 
> How can you hold the hair dryer for the ripple effect, scare the fish to shoal, and take the shot.
> 
> Btw, great pic.


No hair-dryer or fish scaring mate.  The filter outlet was pointed upwards and flow turned up for the ripples.  There's 22 harlequins in there so 'scaring' them isn't required to get a shot of a couple together...

Thanks!



			
				oldwhitewood said:
			
		

> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=17&p=5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good don't get me wrong, I guess the aquascape bit comes with choosing the different corals and stuff. Where's the form though to me it's just a big mound? It looks bloody impressive though.
> 
> Thats what I think will be interesting; where you can take a marine tank in terms of design to make it different. I always go back to some of the marine tanks in the ADA gallery, they're quite interestingly scaped in a way I've never seen before.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of those 'scapes and fish.  To gawdy for my liking.  

Biotope marine set-ups are severely lacking in the hobby too, so if one can combine a decent 'scape with a sense of deeper realism then I think it could be a winner.


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## oldwhitewood

I'm thinking too of actually backing off using so many plants, simply using sand, wood, rocks, moss, ferns and crypts with soem rotala sp. green. I'm not sure what to do but I do really miss having the sand foreground.


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## George Farmer

oldwhitewood said:
			
		

> I'm thinking too of actually backing off using so many plants, simply using sand, wood, rocks, moss, ferns and crypts with soem rotala sp. green. I'm not sure what to do but I do really miss having the sand foreground.


I know what you mean mate.  Luis' layouts are perfect examples of this style.


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