# Potassium nitrate vs nitrogen



## Kezzab (26 Nov 2017)

Hi, I'm 100% not a chemist, so go easy.

There is a persistent cyano problem in my 220ish ltr sumped tank:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/stig-of-the-sump.48558/

It's not overwhelming but it's not nice. I want to address the root cause. Having read here that low nitrate can be an issue, i did a nitrate Test for the first time in forever. It indicated approx 10ppm.

The tank is well stocked, takes 5ml of EA complete plant flood and 4.5ml of TNC Carbon daily. (Carbon has only been being added for 2 weeks so far).

So, question:
- Would 10ppm be considered low? (I appreciate the debate about Test kit accuracy).
- If i wanted to increase nitrate levels would i add potassium nitrate or nitrogen (both available via TNC)? What's the difference?
- What would be a target level in the tank? 20ppm,50ppm, more?

Alternatively do i just increas my current fert dosing? (I think.this would be more expensive however).

I'm in the north west and tap water is very soft.

Thanks for the advice.


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## Edvet (26 Nov 2017)

My opinion:
1) clean tank (more organic debris causes more instability) and filter
2) up the KNO3
3) do a 48 hour black out
Do EI ferts for a while (guessing you are dosing less atm)


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## Kezzab (26 Nov 2017)

Thanks Edvet, I'm dosing about one fifth EI levels based on the recommended dosing information on the bottle (which has no info about what the fertiliser actually contains!).

I think tank is fairly clean, but I'll try the rest of your combo.

k


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## zozo (26 Nov 2017)

It can take some time for a low tech to balance out especialy if a lot of wood is used in the hardscape.. In my case it took me over 6 months to ease it all down with extra water changes and gravel vacuming. I used over 5 kilo's of Mopani wood and the first 6  months it leached like hell the substrate was constantly covered with a light brown dust like fibre collecting in low flow area, diatomes, other filamentous algae and also cyano kept me bussy for over 6 months. I suspect it was from the wood, even it's dead it leached a sh|tload of organics into the water column disrupting the balance in rekation to current plant health and growth..I realy thought i created a monster beyond any help.. But in the end it all came together when plantmass increased and the tanke aged, it was my first time taking so darn long. So don't panic, just keep up the husbandry, do extra water changes and cleaning out algae as long as necessary.

I also started with complete fert mix from Tropica (special/green) it actualy didn't realy work out that well, i wasn't happy with the plant growth.. I changed to mixing my own with KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, Epsom and Traces. Since i have > 20ppm N from the tap, i don't use much KNO3 if the plants don't say i should i don't add any at all. It also adds very little K, but that little K it adds also can't hurt it's neglectable. Anyway since i have rather high N and we definitively need K and P i weekly dose 20 ppm K and +/- 1,5 ppm P with adding 0.5 gram KH2PO4 and 6 gram K2SO4 on 100 litre tank.

Next to that i use floaters to tell me where i stand.. Search the forum and look up Darrels Duckweed index. You don't need to use Duckweed any other well growing floater will do, frogbit is a very valid candidate. Floaters get co2 from the atmosphere, so if these show any deficiencies it aint Co2 related, it must be fert or light related. If your floaters are happy than you have a happy water column regarding fert content, still problems with submersed growth, you have light. flow, temp or most likely co2 issues.

If 10ppm N is low is hard to say, it depends on plant stocking and light source.. But having 20ppm N also wont hurt and is about always enough. So i'm aiming towards a > 20 ppm N, 20ppm K and 1,5ppm P and add additional traces and magnesium. For a low tech this is at the high end values, i could do with less without the floaters, but it also doesn't have any negative effect on the submersed part.


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## dw1305 (26 Nov 2017)

Hi all,
Because your water is very soft you could add some dGH, it might possibly be a lack of calcium (Ca) or magnesium (Mg) (if you aren't adding any?) 





Kezzab said:


> If i wanted to increase nitrate levels would i add potassium nitrate or nitrogen (both available via TNC)? What's the difference?


You can't add nitrogen on its own, the N2 (nitrogen gas molecule) is inert (it is ~78% of the atmosphere we breathe) because the two nitrogen atoms are very tightly bound with a triple bond.




If you can break that triple bond, the nitrogen atom is highly reactive and will form all sorts of compounds (<"fixed nitrogen">), including nitrate NO3, with the equally reactive oxygen (the triple bond is why you have three oxygen atoms in NO3).

Because NO3 has three oxygen atoms you need to use a conversion factor to go from mg L-1 (ppm) N to ppm NO3 (and vice versa). The RMM of NO3 is 14 (RAM N) +(3*16 (RAM O)) = 62 and the %N 14/62 = 22.6%.

To convert nitrate-NO3 (mg L-1) to nitrogen (N) (mg L-1): N (mg L-1) = 0.2259 x nitrate-NO3 (mg L-1)
and
to convert N (mg L-1) to Nitrate-NO3 (mg L-1): Nitrate-NO3 (mg L-1) = 4.4268 x N (mg L-1).

Potassium nitrate (KNO3) is highly soluble, so when you add it to water you get NO3- and K+ ions. To work out the proportion of both it is back to the RMM. The RAM of potassium is 39, so you have 39 + 14 + (3*16) = 101 and ~14% N, ~ 62% NO3 and 39% K. 





zozo said:


> But having 20ppm N also wont hurt and is about always enough


 Should be about right.

cheers Darrel


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## Kezzab (26 Nov 2017)

Knew it would happen. Brain melt. 
Thanks.


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## ceg4048 (26 Nov 2017)

Just add more KNO3 and get on with it.

Add about 1/8 teaspoon per 20 USG weekly or bi-weekly. So for 60 USG add between a quarter to half teaspoon.

Stop testing for NO3 because those time wasting kits cannot tell you anything.

Dirty filters can also trigger BGA.

Cheers,


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## rebel (27 Nov 2017)

Sounds like a nice tank. Any pics? 

My view of BGA is just a distant memory. I usually dose chemiclean once and it never comes back for the life of that tank.


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## Kezzab (27 Nov 2017)

Here's one...


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## rebel (28 Nov 2017)

I can see some GSA and maybe GDA/green fuzz. Are you sure it's BGA?

One interesting trial would be to dose some excel for two weeks and observe.

Whatever you do, if you are keen to find answers to the problem, do one change at a time. However, don't be surprised if you don't necessarily find a definite cause.


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## Kezzab (28 Nov 2017)

Lol, there's all sorts of algae! But it's only the cyano that i really hate.

The cyano is mainly in the floating plants at the surface, but since that pic was taken has spread into some of the lower plants.


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