# BBA driving me nuts.



## Mr P (28 Jan 2012)

hello.my tank stats are 175litres.filter.1100litre per hour.koralia 1600.spray  bar full lenth of tank.co2 drop checker is light green.2x 24watt T5 lights  6hours on..eco complete substrate . i  only recently had to replant my tank      due to BBA.i noticed today that it is already starting to make a comeback  i use james c EL recipe and dosing  i have read alot on this forum about poor co2 usally being the cause of BBA.i use an ae atomiser  ,i can see the bubbles getting all round the tank. theBBA is more heavy on the slow growing plants,cryptys and on the subtrate and wood.i have been doing large water changes every couple of days to try and get on top of the problem.i also am dosing the ferts at the high end of the recommended   dose. please help aarrggghhh.many thanks.


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## GillesF (29 Jan 2012)

skankypup said:
			
		

> hello.my tank stats are 175litres.filter.1100litre per hour.koralia 1600.spray  bar full lenth of tank.co2 drop checker is light green.2x 24watt T5 lights  6hours on..eco complete substrate . i  only recently had to replant my tank      due to BBA.i noticed today that it is already starting to make a comeback  i use james c EL recipe and dosing  i have read alot on this forum about poor co2 usally being the cause of BBA.i use an ae atomiser  ,i can see the bubbles getting all round the tank. theBBA is more heavy on the slow growing plants,cryptys and on the subtrate and wood.i have been doing large water changes every couple of days to try and get on top of the problem.i also am dosing the ferts at the high end of the recommended   dose. please help aarrggghhh.many thanks.



Which needle valve and regulator are you using?


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## viktorlantos (29 Jan 2012)

Too much co2 also cause bba. With atomizer and the tons of bubbles around the tank this is my first tip. Since you have less light and probably more slow growers its safer to slow down the injection a bit, then add some id this isnt enough. Too much flow can also cause it if the flow lift up the soil particles, but with this much this may not be a problem.


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## ghostsword (29 Jan 2012)

Too much flow I found to cause me bba on hardscape. Also since i started to use O2 at night no bba. Not sure why. 

The issue should not be lighting, 6 hours is more than enough.  


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## Mr P (29 Jan 2012)

thanks for your help chaps,i am using a JBL regulator with its own needle valve.should i keep the same amount of ferts going in?i do have a lot of crypts,i also have a carpet of sagittaria teres.which is doing fine and a couple of swords ,i have a lot of fish in the tank so would this make a difference to things.i must admit that i done quite well before just using easy carbo and tpn and did not have the problems i have now.i tried  to grow harder plants, hc ,rotala but was defeated by algae in the end so i planted the tank with easier to grow plants this time.does the tank really warrant the use of co2 and el dosing?. the tank is primarily a fish tank and do not want to harm the fish in any way.i also have a 2foot tank which i am try to aquascape properly.thanks again .  skankypup


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## CeeJay (29 Jan 2012)

Hi all



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> Too much co2 also cause bba.


I must say I've never heard of that one Viktor  :? 



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Too much flow I found to cause me bba on hardscape.


I've definitely had this issue in the past.

2 x 24w T5's on 175l shouldn't present you with any problems. I'm running 2 x 45w T5's on a 180l and don't have any issues.
I have started a few tanks without fish in the past, and seriously cranked up the CO2 for a few weeks and never had a drop of algae. The problem comes when you introduce livestock and have to crank it back down. You sometimes end up on the borderline, so unless your flow is spot on, everywhere, you may get this problem. This is what I have found anyway.


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## viktorlantos (29 Jan 2012)

CeeJay said:
			
		

> I must say I've never heard of that one Viktor



Yeah i mainly seen this on small and nano tanks. But appeared a couple times. I see a reason to add only the necessary CO2 to the tank. At the beginning less later more.

I've seen BGA next to the injection areas where the CO2 was on the highest level with low flow tanks. Once the CO2 reduced to the optimal level the BGA disappeared. Also mainly the shady plants got the BBA this way, like Anubias Crypts but the decor too. Maybe this is about the low O2 level on that area then. Pros can tell us the things behind it.


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## Mr P (29 Jan 2012)

thanks ceejay and victor,i have turned the power head off for the time being,the BBA gets very thick at the bottom of the tank where there is strong flow,i think my failure before with harder to keep plants was that i did not get enough gas and ferts in the tank, this timei think i have had too much going in.i have the drop checker a nice light green colour,it is down near the substrate,what should i look for to know that i am injecting enough gas?.i really want to get this right becase i love to see well setup tanks they look beautiful and i would like to do this well.thanks again .skankypup.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (29 Jan 2012)

[quote="viktorlantos]
I've seen BGA next to the injection areas where the CO2 was on the highest level with low flow tanks [/quote]

I've had algae growing on my ceramic diffuser plate and any plants directly infront of my spray bar or where the flow was high were prone for BBA - swapped to a lily pipe - no futher issues.

Regards
Paul


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## Mr P (29 Jan 2012)

thanks dolly sprint.i do have quite a flow across the tank bottom,which is where most of the BBA is.without the powerhead on there is a gentle movement to the plants.in my 2ft tank i took out the powerhead a few days ago,the plants are pearling and appear to have started to grow a bit quicker things seem better without areally strong flow but i have seen enough articles on this forum to say otherwise.i know there is a fine balance in getting things right and these vary from tank to tank but there is alot on this forumto take in,then you have to find what suits  your setup.very confusing.i hpoe to get it right one day .thanks skankypup.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (29 Jan 2012)

Hi 

Its like walking on a tight rope - one wrong footing - your off the rope and the tanks the same. Hit the sweet spot and your laughing - any tweeks that you do, remember what you did as you can revert back to original set up and tweek one thing at a time.

Regards
Paul.


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## ghostsword (29 Jan 2012)

Yes, follow the articles, but also follow what your eyes are seeing. 

Lots of flow you get bba, leas flow and you don't. I really wonder which would you choose?!?  


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## Gary Nelson (29 Jan 2012)

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> Too much co2 also cause bba. With atomizer and the tons of bubbles around the tank this is my first tip. Since you have less light and probably more slow growers its safer to slow down the injection a bit, then add some id this isnt enough. Too much flow can also cause it if the flow lift up the soil particles, but with this much this may not be a problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Can too much co2 really cause BBA? I know you can have to much co2 for the well being of the livestock but really too much for plants?
Also, can too much flow be a bad thing as well? Is it possible to be blowing co2 and nutrients straight off the plants


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## Matt Warner (29 Jan 2012)

Have you tried dosing liquid carbon. It seems to get rid of BBA pretty quick!


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## Quetzalcoatl (29 Jan 2012)

BBA....    I was fighting what seemed like a never ending battle with this beast. I have finally won that battle, but the war is far from over! Like others have said, neglect conditions and it will return! 

I think the most important thing to do in the first instance is to remove ALL affected leaves pronto, even if this means a hard, brutal cull. You need to get them out. Ensure good flow, and crank up Co2 to the highest level you can get away with! I also spot dosed Excel to badly effected areas. The only other thing I can think of was that I increased dosing of Kh2Po4 levels (This was more to combat a GSA issue but since doing this the BBA has retracted it`s advance) Dunno if it`s related? 

This information goes against what some of the more experienced aquarists are telling you, but I found this worked for me!  

Good luck. Stick with it. It`s a great feeling when you finally beat it?


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## spyder (29 Jan 2012)

I had a fair bit of BBA and as others have posted in high flow areas. I had some Cyprus Helferi with badly infected leaves on the surface and I think it came from the wood in close proximity. A hard pruning, toothbrush and easy carbo during water change followed with a good spot dosing seems to have cleared it up in 1 week. Oto's love it when it's in it's pinky orange dead state.

I put the initial outburst down to fluctuating co2 during the first month or so of the setup. It's easy to beat using the above tactic but as all algae's, if you don't fix the cause it will be back>


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## Mr P (30 Jan 2012)

i have been dosing liquid carbon daily to try and get rid of the algae,i think that i may have found part of the problem ,my JBL regulator is leaking gas badly.not happy as it is only 4months old, it is not leaking at the bottle but from around one of the gauges.i have been struggling to get a consistent flow with the gas and may be this is part of the problem.i will stick with the liquid carbon for the moment till i get the regulator sorted.many thanks again,skankypup.


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## Quetzalcoatl (30 Jan 2012)

Ahh, I believe fluctuations in Co2 levels are known to be a cause of BBA? Maybe this is your problem. Is it the Regulator from the Proflora Series?


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## clonitza (30 Jan 2012)

The main issue with BBA is the organic waste buildup so you need to concentrate heavily on water changes until the plant mass rises enough to keep the water free of it, you might need to do at least two 50% changes a week. Also there's no such a thing as "CO2 fluctuations causing algae", the correct therm is not enough CO2 added in correlation with the light level, so either you up the CO2 addition or lower the light intensity until things settle in.

Cheers,
Mike


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## mlgt (30 Jan 2012)

Regarding spot dosing. Would you advise on removing any known BBA sources and simply spot dose on affected areas and then proceed with a water change?

I presume this is spot dosing Easycarbo neat? I have some manzanite branches affected with this and it is a little unsightly.


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## clonitza (30 Jan 2012)

The best way to spot dose is to lower the water level beneath the affected areas and add some liquid carbon using a brush. If you can't then turn off the filter/pumps spot dose the affected areas, let it be for 10 minutes and then turn the equipment on.


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## Mr P (30 Jan 2012)

i am using a U401 regulator,it is under warranty so iwill have to sort this out now.my 2 foot tank is also using pressurised co2,i have very few fish in this tank and am running the co2 at a higher level, so far (touch wood) i have not had a problem with BBA just a bit of brown dusty algae which i believe is down to the set up being fairly new 8 weeks old.i now hope i can keep my 175ltr tank plants ok without co2,i will keep adding liquid carbon and remove as much BBA as possible,many thanks again,skankypup.


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## mlgt (31 Jan 2012)

I will perform a water change tonight and whilst I do so I will dose with some liquid carbon on affected areas. See how it affects the BBA.


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## Mr P (5 Feb 2012)

well its a few days on,i have changed back to a swan neck instead of the spraybar to reduce flow abit,i took the reflectors off to reduce lighting.the BBA is disappearing now, i have been spot dosing liquid carbon as well.i thought my regulator was broken but i think the safety valve dumped all the gas as i had the pressure very high,i have now reduced the pressure and things seem ok.thanks for the help and comments everyone.


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## sWozzAres (5 Feb 2012)

A tank of mine has had 3 BBA outbreaks in 8 years, each time was when the co2 bottle ran out of gas. I've always  worked on the premise that it's depletion of co2 that causes BBA, not fluctuation. As a consequence, I leave the lights off when the co2 runs out.


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## sciencefiction (28 Feb 2013)

I know it's an old thread, but I came to the same conclusion by observing where the BBA grows in my tank. It's like someone has drawn a line through the tank and told the BBA to settle there, and when I thought about it a bit more, it's where my koralia powerhead blows. I only thought of it because I have a very large anubias broadleaf that had never had any algae until I stuck the powerhead near it. BBA appeared soon appeared on the nearby leafs and the same effect can be seen all along in the direction of the flow of the powerhead. On a side note this powerhead is a bit overkill for my tank which could be one of the reasons, but it hasn't blown away any fish or fry for example, just a bit harsh on the fry of course. I used to have it on the other side of the tank, blowing at another anubias by accident, and that's where I first got a BBA outbreak but I never related the two together at the time.

I think I read in Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the planted aquarium" about plants suffering in too much flow, not being able to utilize the nutritients/CO2 when there's too much flow passing over their leaves as it passes too fast, or something of the sort, I can't remember. Or is it just mechanical damage, leaking nutritients from the leaves and high flow algae species havng a feast in those conditions?
Otherwise you'd thik the higher the flow, the more nutritients and CO2 for the plants in that area but certain algae species seem to love that more than the plants.
Anyway, it does seem that BBA has a lot to do with the flow whether directly or indirectly CO2 related or not, but it does establish itself better in the most turbulent areas of the tank from what I've seen. Maybe the high flow just washes off the CO2 away too fast for the plants but BBA has adapted to thrive in this conditions?


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## roadmaster (28 Feb 2013)

I don't know,,
I've seen  BBA (look's like it to me), in pond's growing from wood,rock's where there is no flow to speak of .


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## LondonDragon (28 Feb 2013)

sciencefiction said:


> Maybe the high flow just washes off the CO2 away too fast for the plants but BBA has adapted to thrive in this conditions?


Or maybe the extra flow distributes the algae floating in the tank to those areas more than others?


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## sciencefiction (28 Feb 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Or maybe the extra flow distributes the algae floating in the tank to those areas more than others?


 
Possible, but unlike the plants, it not only attaches itself there, but it thrives under the high flow conditions, and it suffers when you remove the high flow source. So to me it seems it is just better at catching up extra CO2 and nutritients than the plants are able to in the same position, or it's feeding on leaking stuff from mechanically damaged plants.  In my case I am talking about a 2800L/H powerhead blowing directly at them. The affected anubias leaves suffered almost visible mechanical damage and changed colour from darkish healthy green to lighter green and slight curling/twisting at the edges.


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