# 60L Shrimp Tank - "Hope"



## Spartacus (20 Aug 2013)

Hello All,

My name is Murray and I will do whatever it takes to make a shrimp habitat that is successful 

My previous exploits failed so I emptied the tank and gave it a good preparation clean in preparation for trying again - And here I am.

This is my first ever "fish" tank - I look forward to enjoying the experience whilst learning.

Here are the details:

Tank - Dennerle 60L (38cm x 38cm x 43cm)
Filtration - Dennerle Eckfilter XL
Lighting - Dennerle 11w x2 (Will be on timers around 5 hours? TBC)
Substrate - Tropica Plant Growth capped with Dennerle Sulawesi Black Fine Gravel
Heating - 100w Nano Filter
Aeration - Eheim 100 & aqua Music mini air stone.
Hardscape - Seiryu Stone & Redmoor Root Wood
Ferts - Tropica Premium & Probably Specialised & Mosura BT9 / Old Sea Mud Powder
Plants (Provisional)  - Echinodorus impaii, Eleocharis sp, Cryptocoryne wendtii brown, Eleocharis sp. 'mini', Echinodorus rose, Hottonia palustris, Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' , Fissidens Fontanus, Coral Pelia and finally Amazon Forgot.
Livestock - Sakura or Cherry Shrimp ( Would love to have CRS aided by our TDS 37 soft water but am finding my feet with an easier to handle shrimp)

Today I added the Mosura old sea mud powder then Tropica Substrate topped with the gravel.

Here are the photos:










I realise the brown band round the bottom may look slightly unpleasing to the eye to some - Personally I do not mind it so much and hope that the plants and shrimp will catch the eye.

Hardscape:

I have soaked the Redmoor and wanted to have a look at it and the Seiryu in situ before committing to plants as space may be limited.

Here is a rough idea of the layout (I have decided to stick with the layout in shot two for the time being)









Tonight I will be researching plants trying to finalise myself so I can place an order.

Just trying to work out whether or not to cover most of the Redmoor in Fissidens?

Look forward to posting the next update!

Thanks for your time.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## sciencefiction (20 Aug 2013)

It looks promising Murray. The only thing I'd mention is that it seems to me the gravel cap is too big. Also the hardscape is taking too much of the planting area


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## Spartacus (21 Aug 2013)

Thanks for the input as always 

I have removed one of the small stones and flipped the big one on its side creating a taller more striking stone and freeing up more space for plants 









I wasn't sure about the gravel cap - Tropica bag suggested a minimum of 3-4cm?

Need to keep my eyes open for plants as there isnt many shops round here that are great for algae & pest free plants so will probably try online.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## flygja (21 Aug 2013)

Hi Murray. Might I suggest placing the rocks in a pile near each other. It helps to create unity and strength in the hard scape rather than randomness.


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## NanoJames (21 Aug 2013)

Hi Murray
Your tank looks really good so far! Where about are you in Scotland?


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## Spartacus (21 Aug 2013)

Good Morning Peeps,

Thanks for the input as always 

I have amended the stones to the following:









(Apologies for the poor pics - Its just provisional work will use the DSLR for proper shots)

I quite like the rocks - The left one is a nice shape but slightly whiter than the rest. One on the right has nice lines and features but is rectangular. Seems to give enough space for plants.

Its hard to work out the initial stages without having the wood in / plants but I don't want the redmoor to dry out. Will visit the LFS tomorrow see whats available (Probably pick up some stones for attaching Anubias & Java Fern)

Ah the waiting game 

I live in Sunny Arbroath 

Best wishes,

Murray


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## Lindy (21 Aug 2013)

I would try and make the root and rock work together rather than putting rock at the front where it will detract from a nice bit of root. Remember big bits of rock can really mess up flow and result in algae or poor looking plants. I would also highly recommend using only one of your lights as you have no co2. You could always start with one to allow your plants to settle and then add the second after a few weeks while watching for signs of algae. It is possible to adapt our lovely Scottish water to be more suitable for crs using mosura mineral plus and mosura tds up.
Regardless of whether it has been soaked or not there is a good chance your wood will float so it is a good idea to attach it to a rock or some slate.


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## Andy Thurston (21 Aug 2013)

Id be tempted to remove middle rock and move the bigger two closer togeather and further back then use the wood inbetween rather than hiding the wood behind the rock. But at the end of the day its you thats got to look at it every day and im sure you will come up with something you like.


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## Spartacus (21 Aug 2013)

Hi Folks,

Thanks as always for the input! 

I have done alot of "jiggery pokery" around the tank today and have moved the stones around to accommodate moving the wood forward. The wood & rocks take up a lot of space and trying to find the optimum between them and the plants is tough but fun. I like the rocks they are a particular shape and fashion that only suit a limited number of angles - the wood is nice but leggy yet again thats appealing.

Here is more than likely the final layout:





I am going for hopefully  ahigh density planted tank with Crypts/ Anubias & Echinodorus so it shouldnt look so dominated by the rock and wood.

Just working out how many plants and which type then will get them ordered.

Have fun 

Murray


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## NanoJames (21 Aug 2013)

Spartacus said:


> I live in Sunny Arbroath


 Ah! Just up the road then, I'm in Carnoustie. It's nice to see someone so close! Have you tried Discovery Aquatics? They recently got loads of pots of Aquafleur plants in and are great quality. You should definitely check them out!


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## flygja (21 Aug 2013)

Your latest hardscape is a bit too unnatural to me. 4 rocks at each corner just doesn't look natural enough. Trying to bring them all together, like 3 rocks at the base in the middle, then the wood creeping up around it. Looks a bit difficult with the pieces of wood you have, but they look nice and gnarly.


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## aliclarke86 (21 Aug 2013)

I know you have said you don't mind the brown band but it would be fairly easy for you to take up the top layer (also looks a bit much to me) and just brush in the soil about a cm to allow the gravel down around the sides a little. Again I will second the moving together of the rocks idea and maybe sink them into the substrate a little more to give the impression that they have been there a while and sediment has built up around them, adding to the natural look of the scape. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4


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## tim (21 Aug 2013)

Hi Murray, with the wood and rocks you have I'd be tempted to aim for a triangular style scape with the wood and rocks coming from either the left or right hand back corner flowing to the front opposite corner with the substrate banked the same way, stems behind the wood, with your shorter plants in the foreground, IMO this suits a cube aquarium, check out days aquanano journal for a good example of what I mean, Aquanano40 CRShrimp tank....spring clean. | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## tim (21 Aug 2013)

^ oops I meant ady's aqua nano journal damn you iPhone


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## Spartacus (21 Aug 2013)

Evening Peeps,

Apologies for taking up your time - Your input is certainly appreciated! 

I am currently away from home for a few days so cant do much to the tank but I will pop along to the LFS and see whats cooking. Will probably sort out the substrate layers and have a look to see what can be done 'diagonally' The wood is an awkward flat backed piece but it was cheap and maybe something else will turn up tomorrow.

Just trying to work out whats best.

I have double checked with Aqua Essentials for the plants and will probably aim for them to be delivered after Monday. Need to get the hardscape sorted once and for all though 

Atleast I have a few days to work out my "cunning plan"

Best wishes,

Murray


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## Spartacus (22 Aug 2013)

Hi everyone,

Just back from the LFS (Discovery Aquatics in Dundee) with a haul im happy with.

Plan is for when I return on Saturday to move the bulk of th gravel to the middle to try and hide the brown soil then rescape it diagonally as suggested (thanks on both counts!) 

Then I will add the wood and some of the rocks to see what happens.

They had a good selection or Seiryu at £4.50 a kilo (If only I had a bigger tank maybe next time lol) £18 for the lot. The block section is about 20cm the other two are about 13cm and the last one is just a small one for attaching say Anubias to? around 5cm:

   

And a not so great selection of redmoor but I found a nice gnarly root section about 25cm long (£7):



Hope you are all well - Thanks again for your time.

Murray


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## Lindy (22 Aug 2013)

You could always take a hammer to the bigger bits, that's what I did to the ADA stone for my 30cm cube. It is scaped from a corner with root and stone too.
I think you are addicted to hardscape


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## clone (22 Aug 2013)

Hi , lovely harskape materials over there. You can make it morte pleasing for the observer eye when group the rocks together as an island or a mountain chain. bare in mind that the big rocks are in the back ground and the small on the foreground. In the nature the small rocks are fallen off the big ones so they are not really spreaded around, but close to the big. You can achive great scale in those cube tank, flatter tanks are difficult to skape. Place the wood in between the rocks so will look like the roots crack the rock over the time observe the nature ...go to the near by river and see how the wood root in to rock and crack it. Lindy is wright break the UGLIEST rock in to smaller fragments. Use the beauti of your hardskape showing the most impressive part of the rock/ wood. The two different colours of substrate may distract observber eye. Me personally will pull close to the glass substrate and put some of the black one so will hide the brown, but that just my opinion. Use the gilden ratio and the golden spiral, many artist use that. Make visual triangles in your skape. Just an example: golden ratio lines in red / triangles in black




hope that will help, wish you luck with the skape.......just make what will make YOU happy.


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## Spartacus (23 Aug 2013)

Morning Folks,

Again thanks for the input  Wish I was at home so I could be making a start on it!

Should be back tomorrow.

Will be nice to see what I can come up with - As im sure your all well aware by now I love Seiryu & Redmoor lol 

The prices were good - They had normal bogwood smaller than that piece of redmoor for £6 so it was a no brainer and it looks like a root of ginger 

Hope you are all well.

Murray


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## Spartacus (24 Aug 2013)

Afternoon Everyone,

Hope you are enjoying your weekend so far 

I have been working on the tank today and have done the following:

Moved the brown gravel away from the front and sides (Was a bit messy on stop of the surface but the sides are neat)

Here is the latest shots - I think it looks a lot better not anywhere near as good as every other tank here but its my second attempt at a fish tank in my life 

It may be hardscape heavy - I will need to work out where to put the plants lol 

Open to comments and criticism as always - Have tried to give it a more natural roots through rocks feel.

Apologies for the photo layout - Just trying to keep the pics as thumbnails 

 
 
 




Will soak the Redmoor root (or could I just leave them both in there dry until I get plants then soak them in situ?)


Thanks as always for your time!

Murray


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## clone (25 Aug 2013)

Good job, you achieve roots trough rock look. If you have less space for planting just reduce the number of the rocks, It is all about your preference. More rocky skape and less plants, or plants will dominate showing a little rock. Love your skape. Any plant choice yet? Carpet? The big root looks interesting but has totaly different texture than the bruncy redmoor. You can burry it and create terrace with it and the rock, placing the other root on the top, just IMO tho. i will show u what I mean
:



I used i piece of unnecesarry drift wood to lift up the whole skape creating height and depth wich looks like spiral. It is just an example. After just put another level of Aquasoil creating more space for planting. Use one of the corners of your cube, giving depth to the oposite corner for example. You can make some extra levels by placing and burrying rocks together. So they will hold the aquasoil high at all times. bare in mind that you skape can colapse if the supporting wood/ rocks are not placed correct. Give it a shot thinking of the natural forces of gravity and water pressure. think what willl be your waterflow as well. If your skape will block the flow and create dead spots. Lift your "hillside" of the skape with mesh bags of gravel or the best Powersand or Lava rock.
And after all ENJOY you work no matter what....
Hope that will help


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## Spartacus (25 Aug 2013)

Hi Clone,

Many thanks for taking the time to chime in with such an in depth reply. Most appreciated!

I have changed the rock layout in the back left corner that gives more space and looks better at the same time.

Am heading to work at the moment so can't upload a pic at the moment.

As for planting I'm thinking a mix of Anubias / Crypts & Echinodorus mainly.

Some dwarf hairgrass Inbetween the root triangle.

Some mini anubias on top of the roots.

Crypts etc for foreground.

Java Fern to go in the middle of the larger tree.

Weeping Moss cascading down its branches.

Other plants are: Bolbitus heudelotii /  Lobella cardinalis/ Hygrophila impai

I have 16 plants in the basket:

3 Background
5 Mid Ground
8 Foreground

Maybe it's to much it's hard to tell! 

Thanks again,

Murray


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## Spartacus (28 Aug 2013)

My plants arrived today from Aqua Essentials 

I had ordered to much and didnt know what size they would arrive in so it made for some adjustments but overall I am very happy.

Received an Echinodorus Compacta that is about 50cm tall - Alot of plant for £2.99. Need a bigger tank lol

Will have to monitor the growth and trim as necessary - Am sure some will thrive and others wont but that seems par for the course.

Here are the pics:









Still needs to settle down and a wee tidy up.

Just need to install the air pump and diffuser then put the lights on a timer (Will try a 5 hour photoperiod I think)

It is nowhere near as good as the tanks in this Journal I am well aware of that - Im sure the amount of plants may cause issues but as it stands I am delighted 

Best wishes,

Murray


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## sciencefiction (28 Aug 2013)

Nice stuff, lots of plants in there 
I've got echinodorus parviflorous which is beautiful, dark green leaves growing in the shape of a small flower and grows very small and compact in lower light. The emersed form was way uglier.


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## Spartacus (31 Aug 2013)

Small update.

Smashed one of the spare Seiryu stones (Beach rock did a perfect job cracking it in 3 just as hoped)

Used the 3 pieces to attach 2 Anubias & 1 Java Fern to using some clear elastic hair bands I got from Morrisons for £2 which made the job very easy.

Had received some Weeping moss that I tried to attach using thin fishing line to a couple of areas of Redmoor without much success so just tied them to the stainless steel mesh using the bands then curved then over the twigs. Hopefully in time the moss will grow out and cover the mesh.

I am still very happy with the tank - Will measure parameters later on today and hope to introduce cherry shrimp within 3 weeks. My LFS had some nice intense coloured shrimp but the tank isn't ready and I don't want to rush into things.

Some better pics taken with my DSLR:

 
  

 

A few minor strands of hair algae - One planaria 

Just have to wait and see how things progress.

Many thanks,

Murray


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## Lindy (31 Aug 2013)

Are you using both lights? Probably better with just one but for a longer time.


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## squid102 (31 Aug 2013)

Its looking good! If you are able to, you might want to think about upgrading your filter though. The Eckfilter XL only pumps at 150lph which might be ok for an unplanted tank but you need something around 600lph with the plants.


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## Spartacus (31 Aug 2013)

I have just been using one light for 5 hours from 11am to 1pm then 2pm til 5pm.

Have now updated to 10am - 1pm then 2pm til 6pm.

Am not sure if that is better or not 

Thanks,

Murray


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## Spartacus (31 Aug 2013)

Hi Squid,

Thanks for the input I did wonder about upgrading to say an Eheim 2213 external filter or similar.

Will need to do my homework I feel - Flow rate is good around the tank but naturally the plants reduce the flow.

Thanks,

Murray


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## sa80mark (31 Aug 2013)

Hi Murray

Great start nice and heavily planted and looks good to.

I would definitely upgrade your filter I upgraded to an ehiem 2215 on my 30l it runs 620lph which I thought would be over kill but its perfect your looking at the 2213 id say it will be a bit under powered for you 60l dont be afraid to go much bigger and just use the taps to alter the flow to suit your tank also the benefit of going much more powerful the filter will always have all the adjustment you need as the plants grow and flow is restricted

Mark


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## squid102 (31 Aug 2013)

If you do for one of the Eheim classics (2213, 2215) make sure you get one with the double taps and filter media. They make maintenance so much easier. Not everywhere sells them with the taps and they are expensive to buy separately.


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## Spartacus (1 Sep 2013)

Thanks again for the help with the external filters its all very new to me. 

I can see the need for them as when I look at the tank the leaves are basically not moving in the bottom and mid section.

I have has a look around provisionally and like the look of the Eheim 2215 or the JBL CrystalProfi - Budget is around £100 or the filter would need Lilly pipes at some point I guess.

Would need to be able to control the flow rate as I don't want to be over stressing the shrimps!

Here are the tank parameters:

Temp: 23c
TDS: 87
PH: 7.6 (Same as tap water - Tested for high range but was a slight red colour that i couldn match on the chart - didn't change much from solution) May seek a digital ph meter. 
GH: 5
KH: 4
Ammonia: 0.50
Nitrites: 0
Nitrate: 0

Thanks again,

Murray


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## sa80mark (1 Sep 2013)

My preference is the eheim as thats what I have and have had many models although there is a lot of people who love and highly recommend the jbl's so I dont think you would be disappointed with either, as for lily pipes for me there a no, again personal preference but imo a spray bar is the only way to go and if you dont like the look of them look into a diy acrylic spray bar or one of our sponsors do glass spray bars

The eheim + package comes with the taps and are easy for maintenance and flow adjustment and I believe the jbl has flow adjustment to, an external filter will be the best money you have ever spent also another bonus with the external filters is that they give you the option to use an external heater again personal preference but it gets another piece of equipment out of the tank 

Mark


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2013)

What are you going to use to raise your Tds? Does the rock you have raise it at all?


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## Spartacus (1 Sep 2013)

I will be using Mosura Mineral Plus solution to raise the TDS to around 150-200? 

The rock raises the TDS to some extent but will use the solution and measure it with a meter.

Thanks,

Murray


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2013)

That's good stuff.


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## Spartacus (1 Sep 2013)

I used it in the past and it made a big difference with GH & TDS 

Have done a bit of research on external filters - Nobody is sure what the future will bring but I enjoy the hobby and given more space and funds it would be nice to get another larger tank.

So being a person that aims to buy the best I can I am looking at getting one that would last me.

Initial favourite is the Eheim 2073 its 

For Tank litre: 350 ltr
Pump Output: 1050 ltr
Canister Volume: 7.4 ltr 
Delivery Head: 1.8m
Filter Volume: 4.5 ltr + 0.5 (pre-filter)
Power Consumption: 16 w
Dimensions: 440 x 290 x 240
Would probably be overkill for the 60L but maybe I would add lilly pipes etc - Still trying to work it all out.

One point of note is I currently run the cube with a glass cover that came with the tank. I doubt the intake / out take tubing would fit in the gap either get a custom made lid or just remove the lid and hope the shrimp dont leap for freedom.

Keeps the grey cells active 

Many thanks,

Murray


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## sa80mark (2 Sep 2013)

My dennerle cube has the glass lid to all I did was get a glass hole cutter ( ebay around £6 ) and take the 2 back corners off then you can use the lid and have your filter pipes in place, if you dont fancy risking drilling the lid take it to a local window maker, glass suppliers etc and they will sort it for next to nothing


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## Spartacus (2 Sep 2013)

Thanks for the info abou the glass lid! 

This forum never ceases to impress with knowledge and friendly attitudes.

I think I will order the Eheim 2073 for the tank tonight. It seems to cross all the dots etc and is a decent price with enough future proofing to last me for a while hopefully!

Sure should be an upgrade over the 150lph Eckfilter.

Just hope it's the right thing to do 

Many thanks,

Murray


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## Spartacus (3 Sep 2013)

I have ordered the Eheim 2073 from Amazon.de.

Total cost was £116 which compared to the UK cheapest which is £175 is nice.

Hope it will keep the little guys and girls happy lol 

Will be a new experience.

Tank is doing fine no melting or algae issues - Have done a 50% WC and dosed the Mosura goodies.

Aim to purchase around 20 red cherry shrimp within 2 weeks. Parameters depending naturally.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## Spartacus (7 Sep 2013)

Good afternoon all.

The external filter arrived today and I have just finished setting it up.

It certainly is well built and the flow rate is very nice - it adds alot of movement to the plans so thats nice to see them swirling around in the current. Wheter or not the shrimp will also be as happy time will tell but I can reduce the flow or point the spray bar at the back.

It is noisy - The pump head is quite rattly I think / hope it is just settling in. Have rocked it gently and get most of the air out. On a scale of 10 I would say its 5/10 noise wise. Right next to my pillow so sleeping may be a problem tonight 

Put the two filter cartridges from my old corner filter in the media tray to aid the bacteria levels.

Need to tidy up or purchase different spray bars etc - Will have to wait for funds. Space is a bit tight with the Eheim supplied pipes. I could cut them down and may well do but didnt want to botch a hacksaw job so soon 

I had to pull out one of the Crypts as it had melted badly - No major issue I still have overkill on plants 






Overall though once the noise levels lower then I am very happy with my new purchase.

Aim to get shrimps within 2 weeks.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## Spartacus (7 Sep 2013)

I have uploaded a video



(The noise is probably that of the stabilisation motor on my DSLR)

Will clean the "white mould" from the wood and ive the tank a once over - Suspect another Crypt is on the way out.

Going to investigate some Dwarf Riccia to give the shrimps something to go over but also add a bit to the substrate level.

Hope your all well,

Murray


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## Ben Hooper (7 Sep 2013)

Nice price for the filter I got an old eheim that rattles a bit, I assume it is not too noisy for a living room?


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## Spartacus (7 Sep 2013)

I am under the impression and hope that the noise settles down a bit as the filter becomes established and run in - 1-2 weeks apparently.

It is a bit loud as it stands at the moment - I have wobbled it gently and there is no more air inside. Its more a vibration / hum noise.

Would probably be noticeable inside a cabinet but not by much - In a bedroom under my pillow well I hope the cofee works tomorrow morning put it that way


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## Ben Hooper (7 Sep 2013)

Coffee always work just keep drinking it until it does!

I have or been able to find any info on this so maybe you have thought about it... I want a shrimp tank journal may be up soon and am thinking of starting with 10-20 shrimp but thought it may be best to get 50/50 from different people / sources to have a better breeding pool, Any thoughts?


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## Spartacus (7 Sep 2013)

I myself and under the impression that say you are fine to buy those initial 10-20 shrimp from the one source.

After time you can source more shrimp to add to the gene pool from different sources thus keeping the stock fresh but the initial batch can be bought entirely from one source.

Personally I have had good experiences from Sharnbrook Shrimp & Freshwater Shrimp.

And last but not least welcome to UKAPS Ben


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## Ben Hooper (7 Sep 2013)

I have just had a look at them, look pretty good I kinda want to collect just to see other people's setups 

Thanks I have been lurking for a while but thought I should make myself heard.


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## Ady34 (9 Sep 2013)

Hi Murray,
Tank is looking nice, I'm sure this one will work out for you 
Just a note on the crypts, you don't need to pull the whole plant, just remove all the melted leaves and the plant should then produce new submersed leaves 
Cheerio,
Ady


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## Spartacus (9 Sep 2013)

Thanks Ady your CRS tank is inspirational. I would love to go for some CRS for this tank just unsure it would work out.

There is a small to medium amount of Seiryu stone in there (say 5KG) so that's not ideal

I think the PH is 7.4 but the test kit is a test kit thus not reliable. 

Will probably get some practice in with breeding cherry shrimp successfully then I can move onto a simple CRS tank next year.

Last thing I want is to flush more dead shrimp down the toilet for there and my own sake.

Will be nice to see some life in the tank I hope they appreciate it!

I was aware that Crypts melted - This one always looked Ropey and I didn't have much space left so its no big deal at the moment.

No space left for shrimps!!! 

Many thanks,

Murray


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## Spartacus (10 Sep 2013)

Good Morning all,

Just a wee update for today.

Have had a small outbreak of Planaria / Nematode worms so took about 30L of water out and replaced with fresh. Siphoned up as many of them as I can.

Its very hard to reach to substrate in a lot of places due to the heavy planted and scaped nature of the tank - Maybe that will be my downfall? Im not sure.

I did consider going down to Pets At Home to buy some say Gourami to help clear the worm problem but will probably monitor things.

If I uy fish I dont want them to interfer with the shrimp so I am thinking just to wait another 1.5 weeks let things settle in then buy about 20 Cherry Shrimp. Hopefully they can help clean stuff up also.

On happier notes I re setup my filter and it is running alot quieter than previous so I am very much relived about that. It is still not "very quiet" but hopefully it will bed in.

I have noticed some new growth from the Weeping moss - At this rate I should have the cover I want in 10 years time 

Just taking things day by day as per usual - Going through a rough patch in the real world  so looking forward to progress.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## LondonDragon (10 Sep 2013)

Just purchase some panacur and that will get rid of the planaria in 24 hours


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## Spartacus (10 Sep 2013)

Thanks again Paulo! - Appreciated as always.

Panacur purchased - Member of staff was puzzled when asking what animal it was for. "Planaria"  She was nice about it probably thought another weirdo...

I have dosed 0.6ml into my 60L tank as instructed.

Plan is to order some more weeping moss and maybe some coral pelia for some bare corner areas.


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## Spartacus (11 Sep 2013)

Brief Update:

No sign of Planaria or Nematodes in the tank this morning. There was one floating on the surface so initial impressions are that Planaria and worms are no longer an issue.

Will do a water change Thursday night to keep amonia down from the dead worms (can't see much but better safe than sorry) they are probably in the filter.

Will also do another dose on say Mondsy to try and kill any of the newborn from leftover eggs

Have also purchased 5 portions of 5cm x 5cm Weeping moss from eBay. They will cover some areas of the Redmoor.

Aiming on buying around 20 Red Cherries Mondy 23rd all things going to plan. Take could use a clean up crew to reach certain nooks and crannies.

Thanks for your time,

Murray


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## Spartacus (16 Sep 2013)

Hello Everyone,

Thought I would bring you the latest update about the tank.

I purchased some Weeping Moss on 5x5cm mesh from ebay (Fresh Water Shrimp eBay store) They are for perches in the Redmoor Branches.

Also a few hours ago received a delivery of Christmas Moss from George Farmer which was very nice stuff. Spend a couple of hours putting that on cobbles and slate using hair nets / cable tie underneath and a clear elastic band to help keep it tight to the stones.

Today I will do a 20L water change to try and clear any leftover Ammonia from the second dosing of Panacur (No worms to be seen for a long time so considering it a great success)

Here are the latest photos:
   

Could really use a clean up crew as the wood / rocks are showing a bit of debris etc. Will be nice to get shrimps.

Plan is to find out the TDS of the water where I will source the shrimp - Get the TDS up to that then purchase around 15 Red Cherry Shrimps by the start of next week.

Filter is performing well - A little bit quieter than previous but just have to go with the flow as they say 

Very happy with the tank - Hope it works out 

Best wishes,

Murray


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## RolyMo (22 Sep 2013)

Hey Murray
Any update on how the tank is doing?

For some reason the photos did not look good on my iPad when commuting into London so its taken until now for me to view on the laptop. Wow that sure is some set up you have there for the shrimp. Plus having to sort out the worm stuff at an early stage. How an earth did that happen?

I must admit I have burned through probably £24 worth of Tropica 1-2 pots of moss and never got it stay on the wood and live. I did read another post earlier today where people were suggesting super gluing the moss to the wood.  So I am curious about the moss on a mesh. What happens to it? Also isn't most of the moss requiring significant light and CO2?

To have a TDS that low in your tap water must be a dream. I have just decided to go RO and add the appropriate Salty Shrimp minerals to bring the water where it needs to be.

Cannot wait to see you get the shrimp into the tank. I added mine in on Friday and they have (touching wood) survived the weekend. The challenge is now to keep that tank in a immaculate state, keep the TDS constant and the shrimp alive.

Speak soon.
Roly


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## Spartacus (22 Sep 2013)

Hi Roly and everyone.

I haven't had much news to report plus real life is a tad crazy at the moment.

I have been away from home for most of the week.

The tank seems to be fine - Minor issues of note:

A decent sized amount of "mould" coming out the wood. Stones turning a slight off brown due to sediment from replanting (tooth brush helps)

Some small algae issues on the Java Fern in particular. Hair algae mainly.

Planaria are 99.9% gone - That Panacur is superb (0.10ml per 10L of tank) so for my 60L it was 0.6ml over two doses (1 week apart to kill parents then eggs)

Am sure the shrimp will help clean up the tank in general.

The Weeping moss is growing well (about 1cm growth in 2 weeks in low tech)

Need to wait a bit longer and see about the Christmas Moss. All other plants are fine.

20 Red Cherry Shrimp ordered from FreshWaterShrimp due on Wednesday. Ordered some food for them and Salty Shrimp GH+/KH+ to hopefully avoid moulting death issues.

Filter is still noisy - Earplugs help but scared I miss an alarm. When I get time I will have another look at it. 

Roly:

Delighted your up and running my friend 

The Planaria worms are tough little critters going back to the Dinosaurs. Possibly came in on plants - Panacur killed them in hours. Meant to be shrimp safe - I have no shrimp this can't give my angle.

Moss grows in low tech low light tanks just slowly. I doubt it will be as lush as you see I other tanks but I will be more than happy if it gives some depth and food for the shrimp!

I buy it from FreshWaterShrimps eBay shop. You can find it on eBay by putting in Fissidens Fontanus into the search. It's the one that shows up as buy 3 (or 4) get one free in the sub title)

It's great quality attached to the mesh in a fishing line woven grid. Very lush plant and secured. Can do it yourself slightly cheaper but it's a pain in the butt and fingers!

Happy to talk you through mosses if you like chief 

I live in North East Scotland - The tap water is 37 TDS straight from the tap. It's good stuff I'm not sure what was happening previously but Edward said Sakuras have a tendency not to last due to the breeding. Wouldn't buy them again.

I know you can get RO machinery if I wanted to get into CRS I would explore that option. Just a hassle transporting the containers from the LFS.

Due to the heavy planting I can't do a gravel cleaning very well but I will work it out. Will be nice to get livestock in.

Have been trying since December to work this out. Went straight in with CRS - Was finding my feet and going through a rough time so it didn't work out.

If I could only make this one work it would make me a very happy chap.

CRS when I get a full time job and larger flat 

If I can assist with Dennerle stuff Roly just shout.  

Thanks for your time all!

Best wishes,

Murray


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## Spartacus (27 Sep 2013)

I finally have shrimps!!!

20 RCS - They are on the small side but seem happy in there new home. Due to the layout of the tank its hard to sport many but so far no issues.

Planaria is back will dose Panacur.

Here are some pics:

  

  


Tank needs a clean up by myself and the little ones - They are poop factories 

So I am a happy camper - Just need to wait and see what the future brings 

Best Wishes,

Murray


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## AshRolls (27 Sep 2013)

Spartacus said:


> Planaria is back will dose Panacur.


 
Any idea why they came back, perhaps it needs a higher dose or less than a full week between the two doses?


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## MARKCOUSINS (29 Oct 2013)

How is the tank and the shrimp getting on and are the planaria gone?
Cheers Mark


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## steveno (29 Oct 2013)

Hello Murray,

Lovely planted shrimp tank you have there, I too have a dennerle tank but only 30L and have just started my own shrimp tank, tank is currently cycling as have ADA soil in there. I'm hoping i can get away with using just tap water, as like you can't be arsh with storing obtaining RO water from LFS. My water is pretty soft here in manchester by not sure on TDS level, havent got a TDS tester yet, but know can get hold of one from ebay quite cheaply.

I have yet to added any additive in my tank yet, i note you're using Mosura additive, to be fair i a litltle confuse about which brand i should go with, guess i need to do some more research. I'm itching to get started with shrimp but really need to make sure everything is stable. How long was for you from intial setup and adding shrimp?

Cheers

Steveo


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## Spartacus (30 Oct 2013)

Good Morning all,

Life has been a tad hectic to say the least thus a lack of posting for which I apologise.

Tank is going through a period of highs and lows.

I am currently away from home so can't provide any photos at the moment but should be able to do so closer to the weekend.

Here is the latest:

I have removed 4 dead shrimp (one of which was pregnant) which is a pity to say the least. There may have been more deaths its hard to tell with the jungle of plants. I have a look around it to see if I can spot shrimp (lots of places for the little critters to hide to say the least!)

The rest seem happy - I was excited to see the berried shrimp then about 1 week later she was dead so that was a sad moment.

The plants are doing well - Java fern is making 3 new shouts. Moss is growing slowly but starting to dense up nicely.

Tap water is still around 37 - I add Salty Shrimp GH+ & KH+ to get it up to around 250 (same as the tank water) - Tetra Aqua safe used to dechlorinate the water. Still top us the Mosura BT-9 stuff every week.

Steveo - The tank was set up for around 1 month before I added the shrimp. As you can see its heavily planted just not heavily populated 

The Mosura stuff has a good reputation - If you have the money I would say go for it. If like me your Scottish I doubt I would buy any more of it. Certainly not for RCS - For CRS then I would opt for buying it again.

Speaking of which I personally am under the impression that red cherry shrimp are bomb proof (How I can't get mine to survive is beyond me!) I have been doing this since January and am yet to see a single baby shrimp.

To be perfectly honest if I knew it was this much hassle and expenditure (Just shy of £1,000 over the 10 months all in) I would simply have never bothered. I like having a tank in my room its a shame everything dies and I have to resort to wearing ear plugs in order to sleep well!

Just have to keep at it - No point giving up 

Perhaps if it doesn't work out with Red Cherry Shrimp I will just give up on shrimp altogether - Seem to have followed every direction but alas no dice.

Hope you all have better success than I do 

Best wishes,

Murray


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## RolyMo (30 Oct 2013)

Hey Murray
That is a bit sad to hear.
Have you any indication if the water quality is ok, i.e. nitrate, nitrites spikes etc which I am no expert on, nor do I get the impression the test kits should be trusted. But wondered if this was an issue.

How long after adding the shrimp were the 4 dead?

How long did you drip acclimatise them before adding them to the tank?

Have you got some leaf litter in there? Maybe some Frogbit?

Are the others all ok?

I too read that RCS are bullet proof. In fact in my fish tank I had 4 added and never saw them again. Probably as there were lots of fish and it freaked them out. However occasionally, just occasionally I see 1. And I change the water each week 50%, with Tetra Aquasafe, and wipe the plants syphon the substrate etc. However in the shrimp tank I have, it is RO. I or push the trolley with the gerry can sitting in it to the car and then back home. It then stays in a cupboard for 2-3 weeks as I use it slowly on the tank. I feel much better in the knowledge that the water quality, hardness etc is all controlled by me and the amount of Salty Shrimp I add.

Not much I can do about the pump noise. That is a bit annoying.

Hopefully one of the more expert forum members might be able to chime in and help. Dont give up!
R


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## Lindy (30 Oct 2013)

Hi, what is the ph of your tank? Cherries don't like it too low or so I've been told. I had Sakuras in with my crs and they slowly died off and I think it was due to ph of 6. Have you got alot of decaying plant matter ie leaves that are dying? Do you have activated carbon in your filter? The algae you mention is indicative of too much light. If this is the case the plants will be distressed and distressed plants make for poor water.


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## Lindy (30 Oct 2013)

Also you could try adding a bacterial suppliment such as Genchem biozyme. Your tank is still really 'new' in terms of set up time and there might not be enough bacteria or biofilm. Just going through anything I can think of. I had a lot of trouble when I started with shrimp.


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## RolyMo (30 Oct 2013)

Lindy isn't the Mosura BT-9 he is adding doing that? Is there an added benefit over and above the BT-9 or in my case the BeeMax of adding in Genchem Biozyme?
R


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## Lindy (30 Oct 2013)

Sorry, didn't see he was adding bt-9 The Genchem is a fine powder which gets everywhere in the tank. It is much easier than the beemax to get in your water and can be a source of food for baby shrimp too.


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## Lindy (30 Oct 2013)

What about the black gravel? Some black gravels have been dyed to achieve the colour and the dye contains copper. Basil, our resident shrimp expert lost some very valuable shrimp that way. You would expect that all of the shrimp would be dying though? Have you tried calibrating your tds meter? Mine was a bit 'out' and that caused me to have a tds that was too low.
I have similar water to you so I thought would be perfect for crs. It says the shrimp need a tds of 80-180 but if i kept my tank at 80 the shrimp would be dead. Kept at the higher end of 160 they are fine. Maybe you need to raise your tds more? If everything else is perfect then thats probably what I would look at doing. The only thing I have noticed with our water tho is raiseing the tds to the desired level also raises the gh. I'm not sure how high a gh the cherries want but too high and it gives problems moulting. I keep mine at 5 so have to add mosura tds UP. to get tds where i want it.


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## Andy Thurston (30 Oct 2013)

I don't know about shrimp their water quality but have you tried standing your filter on a piece old carpet to make it quieter


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## RolyMo (30 Oct 2013)

Lindy - Different websites say different tolerances on the conductivity which does not help matters. Freshwater shrimp say a TDS of 100-500, other website state differently but still a high tollerance. But as Clive has said it the past, we tend to get hung up on TDS without knowing what is driving up the TDS values.
R


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## Lindy (30 Oct 2013)

Thats what I mean, I think you have to try different tds levels to find the sweet spot. Even at 120 my shrimp were still dying but raised it to 150 and 'bobs your uncle'. I just use the meter to make sure the water going in is the same as the tank water. Maybe Murray should increase his tds but I also think gh might be worth looking at too as increasing the tds will be driving this up too. I'm just suggesting these things as my water has a tds of 45 out of the tap and I had lots of problems.


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## RolyMo (1 Nov 2013)

Understood. Wow. How do you get the water going into the tank to be the same as the tank water as surely the tank water will change and the TDS will increase due to bio waste, ferts, etc.
Hope it all balances out Murray. Good Thread.


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## Lindy (1 Nov 2013)

my tds is the same at the end of the week as it is at the start of the week.


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## dw1305 (1 Nov 2013)

Hi all
An easy option for raising hardness in very soft water is some "Oyster Shell Chick Grit", it is ever so cheap to buy and just adds dGH/dKH. It might help.

cheers Darrel


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## steveno (1 Nov 2013)

Hello Murray,

I'm sorry to read about your recent deaths, and the problems you are having

I'm sure you'll will turn it around, with the great advise people on this forum offer you'll get there.

Perseverance will win the day...


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