# Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculations)



## LondonDragon

_EDIT: Note that I haven't had a great deal of success with the SP3000, but mine was second-hand to start with so a brand new pump could be different or a different model. Read the post for alternative pumps._

_EDIT 2: The problem with the Aquamedic SP3000 can be easily fixed be placing a non-return valve before and after the pump to prevent it back flowing when the rollers are on the vertical position._

Hi Guys,

Thought I would create a separate post for this and also make a diagram to show my setup. Might help others that want to try out the same thing.

I purchased an Aqua Medic SP3000 dosing pump with the intention of automating my dosing regime, I kept forgetting to dose before leaving to work some days and sometimes I didn't have a clue what I dosed the day before, if it was macro or micro so decided to go this way and using JamesC All-in-One Solution.

Link to James website where you can find more information: http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

My calculations for EI are made using NutriCalc (This was suggested to me by Matt Holbrook-Bull when I first joined the forum and works a treat for me).

Windows users can download it here: http://www.cherniaksoftware.com/homepag ... riCalc.exe

For my aquarium which is 125 litres the following values were achieved:

KNO3 = 1.77 grams 3x a week
K2S04 = 0.8 grams 3x a week
KH2PO4 = 0.5 grams 3x a week
MgSO4 = 4.6 grams 3x a week
Trace from AE = 0.5 3x a week

You will also need E300 Ascorbic Acid and E202 Potassium Sorbat.


After various tests I found out that my SP3000 actually doses 40ml per minute and not the 50ml stated on the manual, I tested this various times over a few days to make sure I always got the same values.

So I am using a 1.5liter bottle, so I will be mixing my powders into 1.4 litres of water which will give me 35 daily doses.


Here my calculations with the help of JamesC (many thanks):

1,400ml and dose 40ml per time. So that's 1,400/40 = 35 doses.

KNO3 = (1.77x35x3)/7 = 26.6g
K2S04 = (0.8x35x3)/7 = 12g
KH2PO4 = (0.5x35x3)/7 = 7.5g
MgSO4 = (4.6x35x3)/7 = 69g
Trace from AE = (0.5x35x3)/7 = 7.5g

Ascorbic 0.5x3 = 1.5g (0.5g per 500ml recommended)
Sorbate 0.2x3 = 0.6g (0.2g per 500ml recommended)

In my final solution I added an extra 20% on top of the total amounts given on the calculations above, I always prefer to over dose than to under dose.

Below the diagram of my setup:








My CO2 comes on 2 hours before lights on and dosing is done using a digital timer (on for 1 minute) 15 minutes before lights on. I mix the solution using the airpump for 2 minutes before dosing.

I cover the dosing bottle with a blanket to prevent it getting any light into the bottle.

Hope this helps and good luck


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## Tony Swinney

Great write up LD   

Tony


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## johnny70

great write up, looks very easy   only need to make 11 now for all my tanks    

JOHNNY


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## LondonDragon

Thanks guys 



			
				johnny70 said:
			
		

> great write up, looks very easy   only need to make 11 now for all my tanks
> 
> JOHNNY


One pump, 11 selonoid valves, 12 timers, lots of tubbing and T pieces!! lol


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## Steve Smith

Hey LD.  A thought for your bottle arrangement.  Have you seen these brine shrimp hatchery kits?  It's basically a stand for a pop bottle to screw into, with attachments for airline etc:






It might mean less fabrication.  You can usually pick up a kit (with some egg sachets and salt) for about Â£8.  I have one myself which I use a 1.5litre bottle on. Pretty sturdy bit of kit 

Search around for "Brine Shrimp bottle hatchery"


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## LondonDragon

SteveUK said:
			
		

> You can usually pick up a kit (with some egg sachets and salt) for about Â£8.  I have one myself which I use a 1.5litre bottle on. Pretty sturdy bit of kit


Thanks mate, but why pay Â£8 when you can have one for nothing  I will see if I can find a cheap one


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## a1Matt

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Hope this helps and good luck



Much appreciated LD, for me the diagram in particular is a great reassurance     Should I get around to this in the future I will let you know how I get on.


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## BINKSY1973

Yep great wtite up and pictures there mate.

How important do you think it is to mix up the mixture with the air pump before dosing?

Cheers Gordon.


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## LondonDragon

BINKSY1973 said:
			
		

> Yep great wtite up and pictures there mate.
> How important do you think it is to mix up the mixture with the air pump before dosing?
> Cheers Gordon.


Thanks Gordon, to be honest I am not sure, my current solution will end soon and my next one I am going to try it without the air pump, I am only going to use the air pump as I am mixing the powders as it disolves them in no time, specially the MgS04. I will report back with my findings.


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## BINKSY1973

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> my current solution will end soon and my next one I am going to try it without the air pump



Well look forward to your findings of this, im currently looking for a dosing pump myself.

Cheers Gordon.


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## StevenA

Post a message on http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php that's where I found a used one for sale


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## Superman

I'm on the hunt for a cheap dosing pump. They're not too bad at about Â£50 brand new.

I thought about the airline in, I might try the "TPN+" type bottles. Leave the smaller chamber top opened so that when you suck out from the bottle, the air should be pulled in from the other chamber.


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## BINKSY1973

Tourney said:
			
		

> Post a message on http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php that's where I found a used one for sale



Thanks for the tip Tourney. Have put a thread up on there so keeping fingers crossed now.

Cheers Gordon.


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## Steve Smith

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Thanks mate, but why pay Â£8 when you can have one for nothing  I will see if I can find a cheap one



I've got one you can have if you like   Haven't used it in a little while, bought last year.  Call it a token thank-you for all the shrimp! 

PM me your address again and I'll dig it out


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## three-fingers

Nice work, looks awesome!  Just the kinda thread I was looking for.

I was looking at dosing pumps a few days ago, found these cheap ones: http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/100-series---230v-ac---silicone-tubing-83-c.asp.

I have a couple of questions .

Is potassium sorbate harmful to shrimp at all?  I'm not too keen on the idea of dosing anti-mould into an aquarium, especially because of all the warnings that come on the packets of silicone that contain anti-mouls agents ("DO NOT USE NEAR AQUATIC LIFE"  )

Next question: How do you time it to keep the pump on for only a few minutes?  Do the aquarium dosing pumps come with timers? Or are normal household digital timers accurate enough?


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## StevenA

I think all the cheaper pumps don't come with timers, so all I'm doing with mine is using a standard digital timer, bought from Tesco's    Seems to work fine.


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## three-fingers

That's great, good to know I can use those digital timers.

This is very useful for me.

Last time I went high-tech, I couldn't keep up with the fert dosing and pruning...so I decided I would stick low-tech for a while.

After seeing the tanks on this site, I'm now making my shrimp tank high-tech .

Hopefully all this automation will mean all I have to do is weekly water changes   .

I think I'll just forgo the potassium sorbate and hope I don't get mould though, I'd rather not risk my shrimp.


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## JamesC

three-fingers said:
			
		

> Is potassium sorbate harmful to shrimp at all?  I'm not too keen on the idea of dosing anti-mould into an aquarium, especially because of all the warnings that come on the packets of silicone that contain anti-mouls agents ("DO NOT USE NEAR AQUATIC LIFE"  )


Potassium sorbate is perfectly safe with your shrimp and everything else as well. Just look at the ingredients of a lot of the things you eat and you will see it. But if you choose to omit it and you don't get any mould problems then great.

There are many anti-mould agents of which some may not be very nice. Not sure what 'packets of silicone' is though.

James


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## Joecoral

I'm assuming a "packet of silicone" is what one would use to seal their shower or bath other bathroom type things, like you would use in a mastic-gun. More of a tube than a packet


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## JamesC

Decided to give this auto dosing a go. Had my eye out for a peristaltic pump for some time now but have always been a tad expensive. Just brought this peristaltic pump 24V DC nutrient dosing water pump which looks like it will do the job. I've got a 24V DC adapter and a digital timer as well.

James

EDIT: Just noticed they have put the P&P up. I paid Â£5.00 and it's now showing Â£8.30.


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## Superman

JamesC said:
			
		

> Decided to give this auto dosing a go. Had my eye out for a peristaltic pump for some time now but have always been a tad expensive. Just brought this peristaltic pump 24V DC nutrient dosing water pump which looks like it will do the job. I've got a 24V DC adapter and a digital timer as well.
> 
> James
> 
> EDIT: Just noticed they have put the P&P up. I paid Â£5.00 and it's now showing Â£8.30.



I've been looking at those but they seem rather large ish, would appreciate a photo when you get it setup.


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## LondonDragon

Superman said:
			
		

> I've been looking at those but they seem rather large ish, would appreciate a photo when you get it setup.


For the price you would pay for the pump, the hose, the power adapter, you better off just getting an SP3000. Someone mentioned they are selling online for Â£45! Got mine on ebay for Â£30.


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## JamesC

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> For the price you would pay for the pump, the hose, the power adapter, you better off just getting an SP3000. Someone mentioned they are selling online for Â£45! Got mine on ebay for Â£30.


That's very true. I think you were very lucky to get it at the price you did though. Looking on ebay they are Â£50 plus. Still I'm happy as I've got all the other parts needed. 

Once I get it up and running I'll post up here what I think of it.

James


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## BINKSY1973

JamesC said:
			
		

> peristaltic pump 24V DC nutrient dosing water pump



I actually think they are a fairly good price, especially if you happen to have a power supply kicking around already. Can normal air line hose be used for our requirements?

Cheers Gordon.


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## LondonDragon

BINKSY1973 said:
			
		

> JamesC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peristaltic pump 24V DC nutrient dosing water pump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually think they are a fairly good price, especially if you happen to have a power supply kicking around already. Can normal air line hose be used for our requirements?
> 
> Cheers Gordon.
Click to expand...


You will need the special hose you see on the photo and then you attach the air line into it, that alone costs about Â£13, but even with a SP3000 you will need to replace that eventually, but it does come with a spare one if you buy it new and grease paste to apply to that hose (lucky enough it all came with mine).


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## BINKSY1973

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> You will need the special hose you see on the photo and then you attach the air line into it



 The pump as i understand it comes with the tubing in the photo, but not the connectors. Good to know air line hose can be used.


Still on the look out for a decent second hand sp3000 though if one does not appear soon then this one will be next on the list. 

Cheers Gordon.


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## JamesC

The pump tubing is included with the pump so all you need is the air line tubing to attach to it. Once it perishes then it should be fairly easy to get some replacement tubing.

I used to work with peristaltic pumps for years and have quite a bit of tubing at home, bit I think it may be the wrong diameter. Should soon find out.

James


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## BINKSY1973

JamesC said:
			
		

> The pump tubing is included with the pump so all you need is the air line tubing to attach to it



Just as i thought, thanks for confirming that one James.

Kicking my self a little now for not ordering one the other night though, its now an extra Â£3.30 more for postage.

Cheers Gordon.


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## LondonDragon

BINKSY1973 said:
			
		

> JamesC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pump tubing is included with the pump so all you need is the air line tubing to attach to it
> 
> 
> 
> Just as i thought, thanks for confirming that one James.
> Kicking my self a little now for not ordering one the other night though, its now an extra Â£3.30 more for postage.
> Cheers Gordon.
Click to expand...


Taken from the ebay posting:

Please note:
    * these pumps do not come with the plastic connectors in the tubing shown in the image


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## JamesC

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Taken from the ebay posting:
> 
> Please note:
> * these pumps do not come with the plastic connectors in the tubing shown in the image


I would take that to mean the two connectors on the tubing aren't included but the tubing is. I'll find out soon hopefully.

James


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## LondonDragon

JamesC said:
			
		

> I would take that to mean the two connectors on the tubing aren't included but the tubing is. I'll find out soon hopefully.
> James


Keep us posted, and don't forget a DIY project thread hehe


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## JamesC

The peristaltic pump 24V DC nutrient dosing water pump I ordered off ebay has arrived and first impressions are very good. Was sent by FedEx and was superbly packaged. Seems to have a good strong motor and is robustly built. It is 6cm x 6cm x 8cm approx in size.

As discussed earlier the white tubing is included with the pump but the two connectors aren't. The white tubing has an internal diameter of 5mm which I measured to be about 4.5mm. Luckily I've got loads of peristaltic pump tubing that has an internal diameter of 3.2mm and fits the pump perfectly. This means I can run the tubing from start to end with no connections. I see no reason though why you couldn't use airline tubing connected to the supplied white tubing if you wanted. You would just need to get some connectors that fit both pipes.

I've just used the pump as it is, as it easily clips on to the back of my cabinet but if you wanted to it would be fairly easy to mount it in a box so only the blue pump part is exposed. My mains timer can switch in one minute intervals which pumps 41ml to 42ml each time. Dosing solution is going to be kept in a 2 litre Robinson's squash bottle with no airstone as I find I have no problems with settling. Dosing starts today and just need to make up my 'All In One' solution. And with 2 litres of solution, 42ml a day should last several weeks.






James


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## LondonDragon

Looking great James  I know what I will do if my SP3000 breaks hehe where can you get that tubbing from? A continuous tube is much safer than joints, no way for the solution to leak  Also what wattage/DC does the pump need?

Thanks for posting it


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## JamesC

Pump uses 150mA. The power adapter I have is 400mA so no probs there. I used to work in a chemical lab and when the site was closed down many years ago we were allowed to take home what we wanted. I used to go home every night with a car load of stuff, which is where the tubing came from. A quick google came up with this - http://www.altecweb.com/home.asp?cat=Subcategory3250, but you have to buy 15m at a time. Should be other places I'd think. The tubing I have is silicone but the tube supplied with the pump and on the website above is santoprene which is food grade.

Shame I didn't take any of the Watson-Marlow peristaltic pumps with me as they are worth a fortune and are the dogs bits. I was more into doing up motor bikes at the time so kitted out my garage with industrial shelving, compressors, etc and didn't see any need for peristaltic pumps. Anyway going off topic a bit.

James


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## three-fingers

JamesC said:
			
		

> Potassium sorbate is perfectly safe with your shrimp and everything else as well. Just look at the ingredients of a lot of the things you eat and you will see it. But if you choose to omit it and you don't get any mould problems then great.
> 
> There are many anti-mould agents of which some may not be very nice. Not sure what 'packets of silicone' is though.
> 
> James


Good to know, will probably still use it then .

I have lot's of little things of silicone that come in...'packets' I would say.  Guess you could call them tubes too, they aren't like the proper big tubes of silicone for tank building.

Loving this thread so far!


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## a1Matt

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> BINKSY1973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep great wtite up and pictures there mate.
> How important do you think it is to mix up the mixture with the air pump before dosing?
> Cheers Gordon.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Gordon, to be honest I am not sure, my current solution will end soon and my next one I am going to try it without the air pump, I am only going to use the air pump as I am mixing the powders as it disolves them in no time, specially the MgS04. I will report back with my findings.
Click to expand...




			
				JamesC said:
			
		

> Dosing solution is going to be kept in a 2 litre Robinson's squash bottle with no airstone as I find I have no problems with settling.



I got my peristaltic pump today and I am going to try this without an airstone\air pump for the simple reason that I do not own an airpump.

Paulo - have you tried it without the airpump yet? If so, did it make any difference?


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## LondonDragon

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Paulo - have you tried it without the airpump yet? If so, did it make any difference?


I have been using it without an air pump for just over a week and its all good so far!


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## Superman

Mine's in the post as I type, along with the potassium sorbate and ascorbic acid. I plan to have a 2 litre bottle as a storage bottle but will feed a smaller one once a week (space in my cupboard is really tight!). I'm going to try and use an old TPN bottle as the smaller side will let the air in when the pump is on.


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## a1Matt

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> a1Matt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulo - have you tried it without the airpump yet? If so, did it make any difference?
> 
> 
> 
> I have been using it without an air pump for just over a week and its all good so far!
Click to expand...


that is good to hear


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## Tony Swinney

Hi

I've just serviced my SP3000's this morning, replacing the rubber tube, and the motors.  The new tubes came with end fittings, so i was about to chuck the old ones out when I remembered this thread   

I've got 2 used tubes with end fittings, the rubber has seen better days, but if they're of use to anyone pm me your address and I'll stick them in the post for you.  They're the same as these:

http://www.swelluk.com/marine/marin...eplacement-pump-hose-with-fittings-41698.html

Tony


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## StevenA

Tony have you still got those tubes?


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## Tony Swinney

Yep.  Drop me a PM with your address, and I'll stick them in the post

Cheers


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## Superman

Just doing mine, does the bottle need to be airtight?


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## StevenA

I've got a half inch hole at the top of mine for refilling, which is also where the tube from the dosing pump goes in. As shown in the diagram on the first page. Works a treat


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## Superman

Thanks, just set mine up with a 10 day dose trial.
Exciting times.


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## a1Matt

I set mine up last night too 

I found out the following... 

Cheap Argos timers do not work very well; the switching is very erratic.
If you leave a peristaltic pump in continuous use for 10 minutes it overheats and stops working.
If you change the fuse it starts working again, phew!
Other than the 2 minutes of stressful ranting while I changed the fuse, so far so good.

My wiring was just a quick lash up - I still need to sort out a proper casing for the pump so that the electrics are waterproofed (and of course buy a decent timer   )

Dosing wise, I did a 20 day trial (1litre solution dispensed @ 50ml a day). 
I intend to keep up with 20 days at a time until I am either satisfied with my fert mix or get bored tweaking it!  

Then I will switch over to a 5L container I have. That will be pretty cool, having automated dosing that only needs refilling every 3 months


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## StevenA

You won't regret it guys, best thing i've added to my main setup, makes life so much easier, better for the plants too with regards to consistant timing of fert input etc...


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## LondonDragon

Tourney said:
			
		

> You won't regret it guys, best thing i've added to my main setup, makes life so much easier, better for the plants too with regards to consistant timing of fert input etc...


Sure does, specially when I had to go away for 8 days out of the country and knowing the tank was going to get dosed normally.


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## Steve Smith

It's starting to get tempting...  I have a 3 week roadtrip around the USA planned for september...  I'd need to dose at least 3 tanks though


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## a1Matt

I am often away for a couple of days here and there, that is what swung it for me to invest the money in the peristaltic pump.
I have a feeling I will see good benefits from the exact regularity that pump dosing will bring as well


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## Superman

I've noticed that if I don't keep on top of it, my dosing water returns back to the bottle. 
I don't have a non-return valve so that's why it's happening.
What type of valve is required?


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## LondonDragon

Superman said:
			
		

> I've noticed that if I don't keep on top of it, my dosing water returns back to the bottle.
> I don't have a non-return valve so that's why it's happening.
> What type of valve is required?


First you don't place he tubbing inside the water, just let it hang over the tank.
And the non return valve is the same you would use on a CO2 system or an air pump.


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## Superman

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Superman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed that if I don't keep on top of it, my dosing water returns back to the bottle.
> I don't have a non-return valve so that's why it's happening.
> What type of valve is required?
> 
> 
> 
> First you don't place he tubbing inside the water, just let it hang over the tank.
> And the non return valve is the same you would use on a CO2 system or an air pump.
Click to expand...

Its is just hanging over the side, I'll one of those non return valves.


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## AdAndrews

Great idea, would this work for a 35litre? do you just down size the pump so less is getting in? i would only want about 1.5ml


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## LondonDragon

AdAndrews said:
			
		

> Great idea, would this work for a 35litre? do you just down size the pump so less is getting in? i would only want about 1.5ml


You will need more specialized "reeffers" dosing pumps that will set you back a couple hundred quid, this only can dose minimum 40ml for one minute, unless you get a seconds timer rather than minutes, but then I would not recommend using the Aquamedic pumps for that.


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## AdAndrews

oh ok, thanks anyway mate.


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## a1Matt

AdAndrews said:
			
		

> Great idea, would this work for a 35litre? do you just down size the pump so less is getting in? i would only want about 1.5ml



One possible solution is to make the allinone solution 25x more diluted so that 40ml is (approximately) the correct amount to dose.


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## AdAndrews

could do i spose, i will think about it


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## LondonDragon

a1Matt said:
			
		

> AdAndrews said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great idea, would this work for a 35litre? do you just down size the pump so less is getting in? i would only want about 1.5ml
> 
> 
> 
> One possible solution is to make the allinone solution 25x more diluted so that 40ml is (approximately) the correct amount to dose.
Click to expand...

I have been trying that on my tank and I am not getting great results, after I come back from holidays I am going to manually dose the tank with the same quantities the pump was suppose to dose daily and then check if things improve.


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## a1Matt

I hope you get it sorted Paulo. Might be worth testing out the timer, I had two timers and one of them was very sporadic, it often cut the timing short, or just failed to come on at all. The other (identical make and model) worked fine.


(Auto dosing in my tank was not viable anyway as my PH is too high (no Co2 injection) which causes the chelator within the allinone solution to break down as soon as soon as it hits the water... causing very cloudy water)


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## AdAndrews

I mayaswell just dose manually. i spose it doesnt take a minute doing it when feeding the fishes

thanks anyways paolo and matt


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## LondonDragon

a1Matt said:
			
		

> I hope you get it sorted Paulo. Might be worth testing out the timer, I had two timers and one of them was very sporadic, it often cut the timing short, or just failed to come on at all. The other (identical make and model) worked fine.
> (Auto dosing in my tank was not viable anyway as my PH is too high (no Co2 injection) which causes the chelator within the allinone solution to break down as soon as soon as it hits the water... causing very cloudy water)


I have tried a few more things this week when I changed the bottle with the solution again. I have made the dosing tube much shorter it was way too long and I am going to try and place the pump and bottle higher in the cabinet also so less pressure for the dosing. oh yeah it didn't help the previous time I placed the 5Kg FE on top of the dosing tube LOL and the bottle remained full all the time, no wonder my tank has gone to crap LOL so I will try auto again for another 3 weeks and see, and if things don't improve I will try manual and report back.



			
				AdAndrews said:
			
		

> I mayaswell just dose manually. i spose it doesnt take a minute doing it when feeding the fishes
> thanks anyways paolo and matt


For a small tank manual is the way to go, I dose my shrimp tank whenever I can remember to do so and its doing great


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## LondonDragon

Just a quick update, I found out that the tubbing I had from the pump to the tank was way too long (couple meters) and also didn't help when I placed the 5kg FE on top of it without knowing lol.
I have since adjusted the cable lenght and position of the pump and bottle and its all been working fine since, and the tank is looking much better now, just need to give it a couple more weeks to see if the algae clears.

In the end it was user mistake rather than the pump not working properly


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## JamesC

Great stuff. I'm still using mine with great success and wouldn't be without it now.

James


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## LondonDragon

After some further testing I have found the SP3000 pump to be very unreliable, it started off pumping 40ml per minute, it is now pumping 45ml every two minutes. I am going to start looking for an alternative, I might just get one the same has James to see if it more reliable than the SP3000, since he is having great success with his.


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## paul.in.kendal

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> After some further testing I have found the SP3000 pump to be very unreliable, it started off pumping 40ml per minute, it is now pumping 45ml every two minutes. I am going to start looking for an alternative, I might just get one the same has James to see if it more reliable than the SP3000, since he is having great success with his.


Ah, that's a shame - I've just ordered an SP3000!  Any idea why it's failing? Has the motor slowed?  Have you tried fitting the spare peristaltic pipe (if you've got it)?


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## Superman

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> After some further testing I have found the SP3000 pump to be very unreliable, it started off pumping 40ml per minute, it is now pumping 45ml every two minutes. I am going to start looking for an alternative, I might just get one the same has James to see if it more reliable than the SP3000, since he is having great success with his.



To be honest Paulo, I gave it a try for a while and then gave up after a month. I couldn't trust to dose my old 180.


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## paul.in.kendal

Superman said:
			
		

> LondonDragon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After some further testing I have found the SP3000 pump to be very unreliable, it started off pumping 40ml per minute, it is now pumping 45ml every two minutes. I am going to start looking for an alternative, I might just get one the same has James to see if it more reliable than the SP3000, since he is having great success with his.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest Paulo, I gave it a try for a while and then gave up after a month. I couldn't trust to dose my old 180.
Click to expand...

Oh dear! I'm even more worried now.  Does this thread need a health warning: "Great Idea, but may not work long term"?


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## LondonDragon

paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> Oh dear! I'm even more worried now.  Does this thread need a health warning: "Great Idea, but may not work long term"?


With the right pump it will work fine, but those cost about Â£200


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## Superman

paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> Oh dear! I'm even more worried now.  Does this thread need a health warning: "Great Idea, but may not work long term"?



I think the problem I had was that the pump was too low down compared to the tank. In addition, I didn't have a non-return valve between the pump and the output into the tank. If I were to try this again, I would have the pump at the same height as the water level and have the non-return valve.

I think it will work long-term but think that you need to get the full setup right. I would of continued to try it but as I broke down my tank, then I couldn't continue to test.


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## paul.in.kendal

It seems a shame if I have to keep the dosing pump level with the waterline (and in view) rather than hidden in the cabinet.  Sounds like the ferts reservoir will also have to be at a higher level, too. 

Do either of you know anyone else using this system, and whether they're succeeding or not?


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## Superman

I would of tried the check valve first and leave everything in the cupboard hidden away.
What I found was that the pump worked, but when switched off the water flowed back into the bottle a bit. Therefore, it meant that the minute of being on, was spent pumping the water back up a bit.


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## JamesC

Here are my thoughts. It was me that brought Clark's SP3000 off him and I find it works faultlessly. Because I now use a different trace I'm no longer able to use my all in one solution so have two pumps, one for the traces and one for the macros.

Don't use a non return valve that is designed for gas as it creates too much back pressure creating liquid bypass in the tube. There should be no build up of pressure anywhere along the tubing. I don't use a NRV.
The tube that enters the tank should be just above the water line just in case of any flow back.
The tubing in the pump mechanism needs to be maintained and no kinks, etc to be present. TBH it requires very little maintanence due to the low amount they are used.
If the dosing solution in the tube is flowing back then this is because something isn't setup right. It shouldn't flow back one bit and if it does then you need to look at the tubing in the pump.

I have my 2 bottles in the bottom of the cupboard with both of my SP3000 and washing machine pumps on the shelf. The tubes then go up to just above the water line in the tank. I pump in for two minutes once every day. The solution in the tubes doesn't fall back a bit and remains at the top. The volume pumped is within a couple of ml week after week as it should be.

James


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## paul.in.kendal

JamesC said:
			
		

> Here are my thoughts. It was me that brought Clark's SP3000 off him and I find it works faultlessly. Because I now use a different trace I'm no longer able to use my all in one solution so have two pumps, one for the traces and one for the macros.
> 
> Don't use a non return valve that is designed for gas as it creates too much back pressure creating liquid bypass in the tube. There should be no build up of pressure anywhere along the tubing. I don't use a NRV.
> The tube that enters the tank should be just above the water line just in case of any flow back.
> The tubing in the pump mechanism needs to be maintained and no kinks, etc to be present. TBH it requires very little maintanence due to the low amount they are used.
> If the dosing solution in the tube is flowing back then this is because something isn't setup right. It shouldn't flow back one bit and if it does then you need to look at the tubing in the pump.
> 
> I have my 2 bottles in the bottom of the cupboard with both of my SP3000 and washing machine pumps on the shelf. The tubes then go up to just above the water line in the tank. I pump in for two minutes once every day. The solution in the tubes doesn't fall back a bit and remains at the top. The volume pumped is within a couple of ml week after week as it should be.
> 
> James


That's very reassuring James - thanks.  

I got all my powders from Fluidsensor - I'm assuming with their Trace and my very soft water I'm still OK to make up an all-in-one solution?  Was it the chelators that caused you to switch to two separate dosings?  

Was the shift to two-minute pumping to give more precise delivery of a weaker solution?


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## JamesC

paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> That's very reassuring James - thanks.
> 
> I got all my powders from Fluidsensor - I'm assuming with their Trace and my very soft water I'm still OK to make up an all-in-one solution?  Was it the chelators that caused you to switch to two separate dosings?
> 
> Was the shift to two-minute pumping to give more precise delivery of a weaker solution?



Fluidsensor's trace mix uses EDTA as chelator which works fine with the all in one solution and also best in soft water. I'm curently using a HEEDTA chelated trace mix which seems to have issues with either the ascorbic acid or potassium sorbate, so have gone back to the more traditional separate trace and macro dosing.

I just set the timer to 2 minutes and haven't been bothered to change it - no other reason. I use 2.5 litre bottles so they last a fair while anyway.

The motor in the SP3000 is a decent one and plenty strong enough for the job. The problem is if the tubing that is squeezed isn't installed correctly or is damaged then the pumping won't be accurate as some of the solution will bypass the pumping mechanism. The way to check this is to have the end tubing up in the air and have the solution pumped up to the top of the tubing. You should be able to leave it for days on end with the pump turned off without the solution level falling back. If it does then it's because the solution it getting past the squeezed part of the tube in the pump.

James


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## paul.in.kendal

Really good, James, that all makes sense to me.  I'm looking forward to getting this sorted.  [Paul in Kendal now feeling wholly reassured].


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## davideyre

have just got the sp3000 pump, the instruction manual has a diagram with the pump used to dose from a reservoir below the level of the tank, which features a non-return valve. the caption by the diagram mentions that if the pump stops in the 'horizontal' position fluid may leak back and the valve prevents this. in the diagram water syphoning from the main tank is prevented by placing the dosing hose above the water line - as mentioned above.

i know james mentions that his pump works without the non return valve, but for some reason i can only get the set up not to leak back with the non-return valve supplied - so might be worth trying with a non-return valve if you are struggling, although might have to be one designed for fluid rather than the airline valves?


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## JamesC

Now that I've been using the SP3000 for a while I've come to the conclusion it is a load of rubbish. The solution keeps running back into the bottle all the time which is pretty poor imho. The way to get around this is to install a non-return valve for liquids or place the dosing bottle at the same height as the tank. I can fiddle with the tubing and get it working for a day or two but then it goes back to the leaking again. The main problem is that the SP3000 only has 2 rollers compared to the ebay one I brought which has 3.

For those wishing to do the autodosing I'd stay clear of the SP3000 and stick to the ebay one I brought in the picture below.





James


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## LondonDragon

JamesC said:
			
		

> Now that I've been using the SP3000 for a while I've come to the conclusion it is a load of rubbish.


I have to agree with James on this, I had nothing but problem since I started using the SP3000. I have now returned to manual dosing and the plants are looking great once again, I am even growing HC successfully now


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## paul.in.kendal

I've not set up my SP3000 yet, although these last posts makes me wonder whether it's even worth bothering.  Interesting alternative suggested by Tom Barr - http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&sa ... a=N&tab=wf


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## JamesC

paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> Interesting alternative suggested by Tom Barr - http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&sa ... a=N&tab=wf


Remember that the bottle has to be set up above the tank as it a gravity fed system.

James


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## plantbrain

JamesC said:
			
		

> paul.in.kendal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting alternative suggested by Tom Barr - http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&sa ... a=N&tab=wf
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that the bottle has to be set up above the tank as it a gravity fed system.
> 
> James
Click to expand...


And a IV type drip can be hung on a light bar like these:





Makes it easy to watch and adjust the rates of dosing.

I think this would do well if you like messing with NH4 dosing also, smaller metered dosing.
This assumes that the timers, drip rates and mechanical issues are good and nothign goes wrong and ends up dumping the entire contents into the aquarium all at once, this has occured a few times on client tanks over the years(not with NH4 though). Nothing bad occurred with 2 weeks worth of ferts other than some shrimp deaths, but many shrimp, about 50% made it. 

Errors can be good teaching tools and good high toxicity test themselves.

If you have a sump, then the Drip can be added, Reef folks use these drip systems for Ca++ and Alk.

Regards, 
Tom barr


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## paul.in.kendal

Hi Tom

Could you show or describe how a sump system would work?  Does it have a header tank, pump and float-switch to top this up?

Cheers

Paul


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## gzylo

Hi all.


Instead of aqua-medic pump you can use http://www.cheappetproducts.net/AQUA_LIFTER_SUCTION_PUMP__3GPH_-_Lift_height_30__-UKP47359.html. It costs 7.32. but shipping costs Â£25 (from Usa) I have ordered two + circulation pump and pay around Â£68. I wills set them on digital timer the pump does only 3GPH so setting it up should be no problem.

There is an alternative solution to I have found it in Poland http://projekty.qrz.pl/index.php?op...awozow-do-akwarium&catid=6:projekty&Itemid=10  its simple controller with 3 vw golf wiper motors from the controller you can set how many millilitres (1 is minimum) of solution you require to be added to your tank it has a build in clock/timer too. You can manually override dosing amount by press of the button. I have asked person who designed it - there is no English menu.  The price is  PLN399.00 which works out as 85.257128 bgp.
I can get hold of few if someone wish to get one. 


Hope that helps.


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## daniel19831123

Have anyone considered using this pump?

http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/100-se ... 3586-p.asp

I've just look at the picture for the pump and I don't really understand how it connects to the DC supply. I'm never good with electrical stuff. Can anyone shed some light?


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## jonnyjr

If you look closely on the bottom far right you will see a gold coloured tab, this is for hard soldering the pump to wires.


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## LondonDragon

daniel19831123 said:
			
		

> Have anyone considered using this pump?
> 
> http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/100-se ... 3586-p.asp
> 
> I've just look at the picture for the pump and I don't really understand how it connects to the DC supply. I'm never good with electrical stuff. Can anyone shed some light?



Just get one of these and then you don't have to mess about with anything, that's what I will be getting for myself soon:

http://www.stm-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Onli ... mps_7.html

Thanks A1matt for the link


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## Kosh42-EFG

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

I used to use an SP3000 with my reef tank... It was useless and ended up in the bin...

Williamson I used to hear good things about, and Watson-Marlowe were the Rolls Royce of peri-pumps... 

I used to use two peri-pumps that I believe were made for the industrial laundry... Bought them here: http://www.coralculture.co.uk/shop/prod ... ts_id=1105


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## Mr T

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

I can vouch somewhat for the Williamson pumps.

Been using these http://www.williamson-shop.co.uk/aquadoser-cased-230vac-pumps-5551-p.asp for a couple of months now with no problems. More details can be found in my journal entry here: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10198

Tesco


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

The problem with the Aquamedic SP3000 can be easily fixed be placing a non-return valve before and after the pump to prevent it back flowing when the rollers are on the vertical position.


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## paul.in.kendal

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

Aah! That might be just enough to get me to commission my unused SP3000 for autodosing, LD.  Only problem is, how will I endure the ridicule from 'I do it all by hand' Saintly!


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*



			
				paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> Aah! That might be just enough to get me to commission my unused SP3000 for autodosing, LD.  Only problem is, how will I endure the ridicule from 'I do it all by hand' Saintly!


Some people have too much time in their hands  others prefer to leave it alone and just enjoy the tank


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## paul.in.kendal

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> paul.in.kendal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aah! That might be just enough to get me to commission my unused SP3000 for autodosing, LD.  Only problem is, how will I endure the ridicule from 'I do it all by hand' Saintly!
> 
> 
> 
> Some people have too much time in their hands  others prefer to leave it alone and just enjoy the tank
Click to expand...

Than again, if Saintly automated his tanks he'd have time for loads more and he'd COMPLETELY blow away the competition...


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*



			
				paul.in.kendal said:
			
		

> Than again, if Saintly automated his tanks he'd have time for loads more and he'd COMPLETELY blow away the competition...


So true  lets hope he reconsiders then hehe shame my tank is in a spot where I cannot automate water changes, otherwise I would do that also.


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## Kosh42-EFG

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> The problem with the Aquamedic SP3000 can be easily fixed be placing a non-return valve before and after the pump to prevent it back flowing when the rollers are on the vertical position.


I tried that... The problem in mine was the motor... After a few months of use it didn't have enough 'oomph' to compress the tubing any more, even after replacing it with a new one...


----------



## a1Matt

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

I have the same with my SP3000; the motor is just not quite up to the job.
I have found that if I coat the entire insides with grease it just about manages to get the rollers round.


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

Mine is still going strong and I got it second hand! I might invest on a new pump which has 4 rollers to be on the safe side! I like the automation and not having to worry about missing days or when I go away for a few days the tank takes care of itself and don't have to lower anything.


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## Spider Pig

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

Thinking about the automated dosing route.

Anyone tried D-D peristaltic pump 1ml/minute?

http://www.aquacadabra.co.uk/product.php?productid=2874

pricier but would seem more reliable with 4 rollers.


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

Just a quick update, after just over a month of start using my Aquamedic SP3000 dosing pump with the non return valves before and after the pump its working great, my tank is looking better than ever, so if you are going to use an SP3000 then get a couple of non return valves and place one before the pump and one afterwards, I also added one on the tube inside the bottle and also one close to the exit point in the tank. I test it once a week to ensure it is not blocked.


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## Another Will

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

Nice idea this, as I work away quite often. Autodosing ferts will stop any fall back in my tank.
I'm currently 'winning' a peristaltic pump on ebay, but came across the idea of using volumetric infusion pump, as used in IV drips. Like this one. Looks tempting, and accurate.


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## zed

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

@ Another Will: I've been thinking along the same lines as you. 

The control and reliability of using a medical infusion pump seems the way to go surely?


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## Another Will

*Re: Auto Dosing EI with a dosing pump (diagram and calculati*

I agree, the precision of the medical pump seems ideal, and some over at APC (i think) are using one. I would have got one if I had not won the peristaltic pump I did!

If you are a bit handy, then try an Aspen Standard peristaltic pump used for removing condensate water from aircon units (Mine was Â£10 from ebay). Although it has a three minute run on time, it will be easy enough to change (but I do have a industrial automation background!) The units are solid heavy duty ones, designed to be built in to voids, and hardly touched, but run reliably run for years. I'll probably run mine via an arduino, to get specific amounts of fert dosed.


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