# Few problems with my little slice of nature!



## EA James (17 Aug 2020)

Hi all,
I have a few issues with my tank that i would LOVE some help with, really hoping the collective knowledge from you guys will get it looking as it should.

Tank info-
Evolution Aqua 1200 freshwater, 120cm length, 50cm wide, 70cm high

Fluval FX-4 and Eheim prefilter

2x20 watt EA LED white tubes and a Fluval Aquasky. Sunrise 16:30 to full pelt at 17:00, Sunset 21:30 till 22:00 then very dim for an hour, lights off at 23:00. EA lights on a timer to come on when Aquasky is on full pelt.

Sand substrate with Aqua Plants Care pinia clay peat balls and jumbo clay sticks for plants in the sand.

co2 on at 15:00 till 21:00 at about 5bps. co2 art Pro SE set up with in tank diffuser run off a FE. Drop checker slightly bluey green (was advised to get a 2dKH but couldn't find one so ran co2 lean instead) Probably wrong?!

EI ferts dosed alternate days at 90ml a day mixed up inline with @Zeus. calculator

50% WC every week without fail, prefilter cleaned on WC day, glass cleaned too. FX-4 cleaned out once a month.

So since adding the co2, the EI ferts and the extra 2 EA lights things started to slowly go bad. A lot of build up of algae on the glass, plants and rocks. My black lava rock now looks like brown lava rock! A few plants just seemed to rot away, i had a lovely little Anubias bonsai and it literally fell apart. I thought i was pumping in too many nutrients and not enough plants to take them in so I've now (about 2/3 weeks ago) turned off the co2 and the extra two EA lights and dropped the ferts down to 50ml
Things seem to be better but i want the co2 on for more plants i want to add but i obviously don't want these problems again! There are still algae on the leaves and rocks, the plants just look dirty to me and nothing is a nice green. Please help!
 I think the flow of the tank is poor, I added a Sicce Xstream powerhead but its way too powerful, it pretty much uprooted my Hygrophila Polysperma!
There's lots i'm not happy with and to be honest i don't really know where to start but that's it in a nutshell, hopefully you'll be able to see from the photos and give me some advice to move forward.

I have a nice little selection of plants on the way thanks to @Konrad Michalski and i want them to do well. I'm also pretty sure that the majority of the plants are slow growers so that's probably not helping matters???

I'll put some photos up below, I'd really appreciate some help

Cheers, James


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## EA James (17 Aug 2020)




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## EA James (17 Aug 2020)

full tank shot taken now
Forgot to mention inhabitants, 12 orange lemon tetra, 2 SAE, 2 panda garra, 8 kuhlis and about 8 amano shrimp


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## GHNelson (17 Aug 2020)

Hi
I'm not a total expert, but a few of those plants do look suspiciously like terrestrial plants!
Do you have a plant list?
hoggie


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## Greenscapes (18 Aug 2020)

A detailed list of the plants would really help identify the problem


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## Jayefc1 (18 Aug 2020)

Hi James really sorry to hear about your issues 
Just my opinion I think there are several issues here 
Firstly the plant mass looks really low for the size of tank and from what I can see in the pics a lot of slow growing plants like Anubias and bucephalandra compared to the stems plants so I'd get some stems in even if you don't want them long term they will help to balance the tank 
Lose the hour of low light at the end of the photo period it's so low the plants cant make use of it but the alge is taking full advantage and with the plants being in a poor state it's really helping the alge attack. up the WC to at least 2 times a week if possible there is so much organic waste from the rotting plants 
The co2 has probably been the start of the issue I believe it's either high tech or low tech there is no in between so get the co2 back on and tune it in 30ppm is what your looking for do a ph profile get 2 drop checkers in there one each end and get them.a nice lime green colour maybe get a surface skimmer to help with flow if you feel it's a issue and that will help distribute the co2 around the tank better 
Really hope things get better for you as it is a lovely scape and tank


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## Luketendo (18 Aug 2020)

Looks like not enough plants, low light (which is ok), low co2 and too many nutrients.

With the same plant mass I would suggest:


Gradually increase CO2 until your fish respond badly (change in behaviour) or plants respond postively (e.g pearling). Drop checker blue/green is not good but sounds like you might not have it set up properly so not a good indicator.
Check your nutrient levels, especially nitrate and if possible phosphate. No point in adding more N and P if you already have enough. EI method is designed around nutrient sufficiency so with low plants, low co2 and low light there will likely be excess going to algae.
If everything was fine before why not remove the CO2 and EI ferts? I don't recognise any particularly difficult plants.


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

hogan53 said:


> Do you have a plant list?


The one you've pictured is Anubias hastifolia. I have various Anubias x 6. Various Bucephalandra (not sure on numbers, loads dotted about!) Cryptocoryne Beckettii x 4, Giants Vallis x 5, Trident fern x 2, Hygrophila Pinnatifida x 1, Hygrophila Polysperma x 1 but not much left of it, Bolbitis Heudelotii x 2, and some weeping moss.
I do have some more plants that arrived this morning from @Konrad Michalski to be planted later on today but nothing fast growing really. 
As you can see from the pic of my Polysperma i don't have much luck with stem plants, I'm unsure of the trimming which i think leads to them dying off. The lower leaves always fall off and the plants look bare. I s this lack of light that causes that??
Most of the plants came from Aquarium Gardens or Aqua Essentials by the way. 

@Jayefc1 Thanks for the detailed reply, I thought the low plant mass would have something to do with it. So if i put quite a few stems in pots behind the scape, things go good and i get the balance again would removing them make things go bad again? I like the look of stems but they never stay good for me!
So should i get rid of the remaining hour of light all together or leave them on full for an extra hour? If that makes sense?!
All the rotting or browning /discoloured leaves etc get removed asap, i try and keep the tank as clean as possible although it doesn't look like it at the moment due to the brown rocks  2 WC a week is easy enough though so I'll try that.


Jayefc1 said:


> do a ph profile


Whats that? Feel stupid asking!
I was thinking about a surface skimmer as sometimes i get an oily film on the water surface which really bugs me. Do you have any recommendations?


Jayefc1 said:


> Really hope things get better for you as it is a lovely scape and tank


So do i! And thank you 😊

@Luketendo I've mixed the ferts inline with @Zeus. fert calculator with my water readings so that should be spot on, he knows what hes doing. I can check them though, i have a basic liquid water test but it doesn't have a phosphate test


Luketendo said:


> If everything was fine before why not remove the CO2 and EI ferts? I don't recognise any particularly difficult plants


Well i did want to ram the tank full of plants and i also wanted a few red harder plants but haven't got round to it yet, stupid i know! I also read that plants will benefit from co2 regardless so thought i'd give it a try and then i'm not limited on what i can put in the tank too.

Thanks everyone so far 👍


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## dw1305 (18 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





hogan53 said:


> those plants do look suspiciously like terrestrial plants!


I wondered about that, but I think the _Philodendron_ like plant is _Anubias hastifolia. _It does look quite  pale and stripy however. Have a look at 





Jayefc1 said:


> Hi James really sorry to hear about your issues


My guess is that it is a nutrient issue. Have a look a<"Slightly sad......">

Do you add magnesium to your EI mix? and which iron chelator do you use?

cheers Darrel


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Do you add magnesium to your EI mix? and which iron chelator do you use?


Cheers for the reply Darrel, this is my mix-

KNO3 -                    4.53 grams
KH2PO4 -                 4.72 grams
K2SO4 -                   66.44 grams
MgSO4.7H20 -     111.28 grams

CSM+B trace -        7.04 grams

hope this helps?


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## dw1305 (18 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





EA James said:


> hope this helps?


It does.  Without doing the maths that looks like a lot of trace elements, can you check them via <"Rotala  Butterfly"> or @Zeus. 's <"nutrient calculator">. 

I might try a separate iron source for a while, probably one that <"works at higher pH levels">.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (18 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> CSM+B trace - 7.04 grams



Think one of the problems with CSM+B is there are folk selling a clone of the original CSM+B which isn't cheap either IMO , in the clone CSM+B I haven't found a good link that tells you in detail what chelate for Fe is being used.

Any decent products IMO will show on the back/data sheet what they actually contain in w/w% or % mass,  easy to work from, if we don't have all the information we can't comment on the product, saying chelates isn't enough we need which ones for which elements.


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> can you check them via <"Rotala Butterfly"> or @Zeus. 's <"nutrient calculator">.


That's where i got my formula, he was a great help and very patient as it was my first time mixing my own ferts. Complete beginner and still am!!


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

@Zeus. @dw1305 does this help at all? 
And if it seems like a lot of trace elements why do you suggest a separate iron source? I’m not questioning your knowledge I just don’t understand it!
Cheers


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## Zeus. (18 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> @Zeus. @dw1305 does this help at all?
> And if it seems like a lot of trace elements why do you suggest a separate iron source? I’m not questioning your knowledge I just don’t understand it!
> CheersView attachment 153188



Yes and No are all the elements EDTA chelated ? 

But it does suggest it is FE EDTA chelate so that may be the issue - getting your hands on some Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA may help to resolve the issue


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## Jayefc1 (18 Aug 2020)

Hi
James I'd try banking the sand up at the back put some iron tabs in there and other tabs like the tropica ones then plant a load of stems the lower leaves will fall if there not trimmed due to lack of light but that isnt so much of a issue as long as they balance the tank to start with to me your ferts look right but as @Zeus. States there might be something wrong with the trace are you making separate or all in one mix 

The ph profile with the co2 your looking for a stable ph drop of 1 so if your tank starts at a ph of 7.5 with the lights and co2 off you want a ph of 6.5 when the lights come on every tank is different mine takes 3 hours of co2 to get the drop at a bubble rate you can't count take a ph reading preferred with a ph pen every half hour all the way from co2 on to lights off then keep fine tuning the co2 till it's a stable 6.5 through the photo period 

Skimmers I'd use a ehime 350 
Give the rocks a scrub with a tooth brush when you do your next water change and try to wipe the glass with kitchen roll catching as much of the diatomes as possible also give your filter a good clean out


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Yes and No are all the elements EDTA chelated ?


You know i haven't got a clue 😂😂



Zeus. said:


> getting your hands on some Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA may help to resolve the issue


So would that be a complete replacement for the CSM+B or is that something extra to add?

@Jayefc1 that sand is already quite deep at the back so that will be fine. I think I've got some tropica tabs, if not i definatly have some TNC plugs and some more peat balls left over that seem to be doing the trick in terms of growth.
Ferts are seperate mixes, macro and micro on alternate days with a big WC on the 7th day.



Jayefc1 said:


> The ph profile with the co2 your looking for a stable ph drop of 1 so if your tank starts at a ph of 7.5 with the lights and co2 off you want a ph of 6.5 when the lights come on every tank is different mine takes 3 hours of co2 to get the drop at a bubble rate you can't count take a ph reading preferred with a ph pen every half hour all the way from co2 on to lights off then keep fine tuning the co2 till it's a stable 6.5 through the photo period


Ok I'll do that, can you recommend a PH pen? Also on the co2 note, when it was on in my tank there was a crazy amount of bubbles in the water, i didn't like it at all! It didn't look right. I see loads of photos of these beautiful tanks and i don't see the same with them! Would an intank diffuser do that as opposed to an inline one? I've got the co2 art bazooka one by the way



Jayefc1 said:


> Give the rocks a scrub with a tooth brush when you do your next water change and try to wipe the glass with kitchen roll catching as much of the diatomes as possible also give your filter a good clean out


I clean the glass every week on WC day with an exfoliating mit, theres hardly any build up on the glass now just a few random green dots. When the co2 was running the build up was a lot worse.  Filter had a good clean last week , i do that once a month. Is that enough do you think?

Thanks again guys this is great


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## Zeus. (18 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> So would that be a complete replacement for the CSM+B or is that something extra to add?



Nope just the Fe - I would use APFUK Trace at RMD then add Fe DTPA/EDDHA extra ( well thats what I do)


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## EA James (18 Aug 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Nope just the Fe - I would use APFUK Trace at RMD then add Fe DTPA/EDDHA extra ( well thats what I do)


Whats RMD?


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## Zeus. (18 Aug 2020)

Opps sorry- Recommended Manufactors Dose (RMD) - @Hanuman asked me the same question on one of our voice chats just the other day, just googled it and some of the slang means are quite rude 🤣 think I must just make them up at times then think they are in the urban dictionary


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## Jayefc1 (18 Aug 2020)

I think inline diffusers are better the mist is much much finer  and dissolves much faster IMO ph pen I have a cheap.one from Amazon 
Once a month on the filter should be enough


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## Luketendo (19 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> The one you've pictured is Anubias hastifolia. I have various Anubias x 6. Various Bucephalandra (not sure on numbers, loads dotted about!) Cryptocoryne Beckettii x 4, Giants Vallis x 5, Trident fern x 2, Hygrophila Pinnatifida x 1, Hygrophila Polysperma x 1 but not much left of it, Bolbitis Heudelotii x 2, and some weeping moss.
> I do have some more plants that arrived this morning from @Konrad Michalski to be planted later on today but nothing fast growing really.
> As you can see from the pic of my Polysperma i don't have much luck with stem plants, I'm unsure of the trimming which i think leads to them dying off. The lower leaves always fall off and the plants look bare. I s this lack of light that causes that??
> Most of the plants came from Aquarium Gardens or Aqua Essentials by the way.
> ...



Haven't seen the calculator but I doubt it takes into account your low plants mass and co2. These will limit the nutrients your plants use and the excess that comes with the estimative index will be going to the algae. I would not be putting NO3 and PO4 in there if your tank already has excess (e.g. from fish or tap water).


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## EA James (19 Aug 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Opps sorry- Recommended Manufactors Dose (RMD)


Ahhh i see! Understood 👍 




Is this what i need? How would i go about putting this in the tank and when? When i dose micros? And mixed in a separate container?


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## EA James (19 Aug 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> I think inline diffusers are better the mist is much much finer and dissolves much faster


I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere i can't have inline because of the ribbed hosing on my FX-4,  is that true?

@Luketendo ok yeah fair point, NO3 from the tap is 31.6ppm according to my water report. Not sure on PO4 as i don't have test for that, What would you suggest i do? 

Thanks again everyone this is really helping!


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## Zeus. (19 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> Ahhh i see! Understood 👍
> View attachment 153248
> Is this what i need? How would i go about putting this in the tank and when? When i dose micros? And mixed in a separate container?



at £0.06 a gram its not cheap compared to bulk (life time) buy





But 50g should last quite some time.

would be more tempted to go for Fe EDDHA as it's not photosensitive, plus you can just add a little Fe EDDHA solution (few drops) till the water just turns the slightest pink and whilst it still has the slight pink tinge you know you good for Fe IMO.

So no need to measure 'x' grams in 'y'litres and add 'z'ml x3 week. Just add 50g to one litre and count the drops you add x3 a week on micro day and slight pink tinge at end off week and your good, does not need to be rocket science


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## Zeus. (19 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere i can't have inline because of the ribbed hosing on my FX-4, is that true?



Nope - I have FX6 and twin inline diffusers/reactors
I like the ribbed hoses as they bend easy without losing their form, so don't give restrictions like other 25mm hoses do.


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## Jayefc1 (19 Aug 2020)

I'm pretty sure you can go.inline even if it just means using a couple of jubilee clips dont see why you couldnt and @Zeus. Sounds like his is in line


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## Luketendo (20 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere i can't have inline because of the ribbed hosing on my FX-4,  is that true?
> 
> @Luketendo ok yeah fair point, NO3 from the tap is 31.6ppm according to my water report. Not sure on PO4 as i don't have test for that, What would you suggest i do?
> 
> Thanks again everyone this is really helping!



Definitely wouldn't be adding nitrates then. You'll want to test the level in your tank as well to be sure. You should get a phosphate test kit.


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## dw1305 (20 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





Luketendo said:


> You'll want to test the level in your tank as well to be sure. You should get a phosphate test kit.


You can get low range phosphate kits that are fairly accurate, but nitrate is a <"lot more problematic"> than most aquarium based literature acknowledges.

In the UK your water supplier will quote accurate NO3- levels, but they don't need to quote an orthophosphate (PO4---)  value. They may tell you if you ask. ~All UK tap water has <"added phosphate">, it is used to make sure that levels of lead (Pb) don't exceed the 10 micro-gram per litre (10^-9 ppm Pb) limit.

cheers Darrel


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## EA James (20 Aug 2020)

Zeus. said:


> would be more tempted to go for Fe EDDHA as it's not photosensitive, plus you can just add a little Fe EDDHA solution (few drops) till the water just turns the slightest pink and whilst it still has the slight pink tinge you know you good for Fe IMO.
> 
> So no need to measure 'x' grams in 'y'litres and add 'z'ml x3 week. Just add 50g to one litre and count the drops you add x3 a week on micro day and slight pink tinge at end off week and your good, does not need to be rocket science


Ok thanks pal, so the 1kg one from solufeed is the one you'd go for?  And do you mean add 50g into water in a container then put drops of that solution into the tank on micro day until the tank water has a pink tinge??

What's the difference between a diffuser and a reactor?



dw1305 said:


> You can get low range phosphate kits that are fairly accurate, but nitrate is a <"lot more problematic">


Do you have a recommendation for test Darrel?


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## dw1305 (20 Aug 2020)

Hi all,





EA James said:


> Do you have a recommendation for test Darrel?


I don't test my tank water.

Once or twice I have taken water samples into work, made up standards, diluted the sample if necessary, and and run them through the spectrophotometer.





> ........orthophosphates react with ammonium heptamolybdate to form a phosphomolybdic acid. This complex then is reduced by ascorbic acid in the presence of potassium antimony tartrate to form molybdenum blue. Consequently, measured concentration of molybdenum blue by spectroscopy stoichiometrically determines the concentration of orthophosphates in the water sample........


@jaypeecee  uses a <"test kit that he likes">.

For nitrate (NO3-) you can use an ion selective electrode, but there are <"still some issues">.

cheers Darrel


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## Luketendo (21 Aug 2020)

API Nitrate test kit has always worked ok for me.


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## dw1305 (21 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





Luketendo said:


> API Nitrate test kit has always worked ok for me.


It isn't that nitrate tests are always wrong, it is just that there are number of situations where you may not get an accurate reading.  

cheers Darrel


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## Luketendo (22 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It isn't that nitrate tests are always wrong, it is just that there are number of situations where you may not get an accurate reading.
> 
> cheers Darrel



How come?


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## Zeus. (22 Aug 2020)

EA James said:


> What's the difference between a diffuser and a reactor?



Diffuser/Atomiser - basically make slots of small/micro bubbles which increase the surface area of the gas which improve its uptake into solution - but once the bubbles pop at the surface is game over for that little package of CO2.

CO2 reactor - is basically a device that increases the time this CO2 bubbles stay under water, some use higher pressure to increase CO2 uptake other swirl the water, high flow or low flow. Some have media some dont. But most (if not all ) use gravity to prevent the CO2 bubbles from escaping the reactor increasing the contact time with the water.

Some reactors have an atomiser pre reactor or within the reactor, whilst others just have the CO2 tubing exit in or pre reactor.
Some have motorized impeller blades of various designs to brake up the CO2 bubbles to smaller ones and create a swirling( or not), whilst other motors as used to increase the working pressure within the reactor which increases CO2 uptake
Some use venturi systems to recirculate the CO2 within the reactor

I personally use low flow/pressure large bubbles as its quiet and tank remains bubble free except for pearling of plants. I did find smaller bubbles escaping to tank. I have experiment with a venturi system and a motorised reactors but found little to no advantage in them so far.

So CO2 reactors vary massively but all server the same purpose, increase CO2 uptake and bubble free tank, all with varying degrees of success/cost/noise


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## dw1305 (22 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





Luketendo said:


> How come?


The main reason is that all nitrate containing compounds <"are soluble">, which means that you can't use spectrophotometry, or colorimetry, directly, you need to reduce the nitrate (NO3-) ions to nitrite (NO2-) and then use those nitrite ions to create a compound that is both insoluble and coloured.

Traditionally cadmium (Cd) reduction was used as the first step (1 NO3- > 1 NO2-), but we can't use cadmium anymore, so it is now usually vanadium III as <"the reducing agent">. Once you have nitrite (NO2-) formed you need another reaction to form a coloured compound, and there are <"two main options for this">.

It is like any "recipe" the more steps there are the more options there are for things to go wrong, and is partially why we don't use these methods any more in the student labs. I occasionally use wet chemistry in specific cases, but then we take a lot of time with <"dilution, the standard curve etc">.

The other major issue is interference from other anions (Cl-, SO4--, HCO3- etc.),  and this also affects the  the <"ion selective electrode">, which is a slightly less problematic option, but quite an expensive bit of kit.

Click on the <"linked threads"> and it will give you a lot more background.

cheers Darrel


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## Luketendo (22 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, The main reason is that all nitrate containing compounds <"are soluble">, which means that you can't use spectrophotometry, or colorimetry, directly, you need to reduce the nitrate (NO3-) ions to nitrite (NO2-) and then use those nitrite ions to create a compound that is both insoluble and coloured.
> 
> Traditionally cadmium (Cd) reduction was used as the first step (1 NO3- > 1 NO2-), but we can't use cadmium anymore, so it is now usually vanadium III as <"the reducing agent">. Once you have nitrite (NO2-) formed you need another reaction to form a coloured compound, and there are <"two main options for this">.
> 
> ...



Yep they certainly didn't use the API kit to analyse the 1000s of seawater samples from my coral experiments at work but I have always found it to be pretty good for the home aquarium


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## dw1305 (22 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





Luketendo said:


> my coral experiments at work but I have always found it to be pretty good for the home aquarium


Yes, that is right it is one of the advantages of testing sea water, it is <"similar all over the globe"> and has a known amount of <"chloride ions"> and carbonate hardness etc.  You have a datum value, and you just have to match your water to that datum value, but freshwater isn't like that there isn't a single value to aim for. 

People have asked <"why ICP isn't used more widely"> in freshwater aquariums, it is partially cost, but also the variability of freshwater.

cheers Darrel


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## Luketendo (23 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Yes, that is right it is one of the advantages of testing sea water, it is <"similar all over the globe"> and has a known amount of <"chloride ions"> and carbonate hardness etc.  You have a datum value, and you just have to match your water to that datum value, but freshwater isn't like that there isn't a single value to aim for.
> 
> People have asked <"why ICP isn't used more widely"> in freshwater aquariums, it is partially cost, but also the variability of freshwater.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I was talking about nitrate measurements not ICP .


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## dw1305 (23 Aug 2020)

Hi all, 





Luketendo said:


> I was talking about nitrate measurements not ICP


I know you were, it is just an example of why testing sea water maybe more straightforward than testing fresh water.

Which <"analytical method"> do you use for your Coral work?

I'm not saying all NO3- measurements are wrong (and I'm sure yours aren't), if you follow the <"scientific method">, and have enough time and money, you can get accurate determination of all the solutes in water.

cheers Darrel


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## Luketendo (23 Aug 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I know you were, it is just an example of why testing sea water maybe more straightforward than testing fresh water.
> 
> Which /www.nodc.noaa.gov/archive/arc0001/9900162/2.2/data/0-data/jgofscd/Files/protocols/chap9.html#:~:text=The%20concentration%20of%20reactive%20nitrate,mmol%20kg%20%2D1%20in%20seawater.&text=The%20determination%20of%20nitrate%20is,using%20a%20cadmium%2Dcopper%20column.']analytical method[/URL]"> to you use for your Coral work?
> 
> ...


Didn't do it myself but it want on a Seal AA3 Auto-Analsyer measuring NH3, NO2, DIN, PO4. Triplicate samples from each tank 3 times a week. NO3 range was 0.5 to 5 uM approx

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## PARAGUAY (23 Aug 2020)

I gave up testing for nitrate with the API the process is a bit laboured and easy to error and the coloration too similar for wide margins. I think it's useful for the basic testing ammonia and nitrite


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## dw1305 (23 Aug 2020)

Hi all,





PARAGUAY said:


> I gave up testing for nitrate with the API the process is a bit laboured and easy to error and the coloration too similar for wide margins. I think it's useful for the basic testing ammonia and nitrite


That seems fair enough. 





Luketendo said:


> Seal AA3 Auto-Analsyer measuring NH3, NO2, DIN, PO4.


Perfect, but also sort of the point. The <"auto-analyser is using colorimetry and cadmium reduction">. It is designed for use in a water testing lab., with a high throughput of samples, and automates a lot of what the lab. scientist would do.





Luketendo said:


> Triplicate samples from each tank 3 times a week. NO3 range was 0.5 to 5 uM approx


I won't do all the calculations, but a quick bit of approximation (somebody could check?), has the RMM of NO3 is 62, so a molar solution is 62g of NO3 made up to one litre, and one micromol. is 62 * 10^-6, and your top NO3 level was about 0.3 mg/L (ppm).

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (27 Dec 2020)

dw1305 said:


> People have asked <"why ICP isn't used more widely"> in freshwater aquariums, it is partially cost, but also the variability of freshwater.


Hi @dw1305 

Are you saying that ICP-OES cannot accommodate the _range_ of freshwater conditions? Test labs don't appear to mention this - are they hiding something?  I'd be interested to know more.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (27 Dec 2020)

PARAGUAY said:


> I gave up testing for nitrate with the API the process is a bit laboured and easy to error and the coloration too similar for wide margins. I think it's useful for the basic testing ammonia and nitrite


Hi @PARAGUAY 

I use the JBL Nitrate Test Kit. I make up my own reference solutions and I think this test kit is pretty good. Its low-level resolution is excellent. Today, I was using it and it registers the difference between 3 ppm and 5 ppm.

JPC


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## dw1305 (28 Dec 2020)

Hi all, 


jaypeecee said:


> Are you saying that ICP-OES cannot accommodate the _range_ of freshwater conditions?


You can use it for any solution, the only reason is that sea water is both a very salty solution and pretty standard across the globe. This means that you have a known datum value for Na+, Ca++ etc. and just have to look for differences from that datum. 

Freshwater is much more variable and a lot less salty. 

ICP works best where you have a constant run of samples, it uses argon (Ar) as the carrier gas, and you have a constant flow through of Ar even when the  machine isn't running sampes, which gets expensive pretty quickly. 

I don't know how much a commercial lab. would charge to run a freshwater sample, but I'm going to assume it is three figures. 

cheers Darrel


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