# Cycling with ammonia,seachem prime



## Ian61 (13 Apr 2021)

Hello. Shortly,  I’m hoping to be setting up a tank from scratch and am considering using ammonia for cycling.Seachem prime is advocated for dechlorination of tap water but is also stated to bind and render ammonia harmless. On the face of it, this will prevent cycling and presumably interfere with ammonia test results. On the other hand, not dechlorinating tap water is going to hinder establishing biological filtration.
Thoughts please!

Ian


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## papa_c (13 Apr 2021)

Simple answer.  There is no need to use ammonia,  ditch the idea and let the cycle happen naturally.


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## Ian61 (13 Apr 2021)

papa_c said:


> Simple answer.  There is no need to use ammonia,  ditch the idea and let the cycle happen naturally.


Need something to start the cycle and I don’t have access to a mature filter or live stock


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## papa_c (13 Apr 2021)

Adding ammonia only increases the likelihood of algea. That is why frequent high volume water changes are recommended during start up. 

The tank will cycle without adding ammonia.


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## Ian61 (13 Apr 2021)

A biological filter is not going to establish without some form of ’nutrition‘, be it ammonia, fish waste, decaying vegetation or animal matter, added fish food etc. Not sure what you mean by ‘happen naturally’.


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## monzajim (13 Apr 2021)

Hi Ian noob here
My understanding is the use of soil Tropica etc will leach enough ammonia in the interim to aid your cycle however water changes keep levels to a acceptable level


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## sparkyweasel (14 Apr 2021)

We've got quite a few threads on 'cycling'
this one's a good starting point;
Cycling
especially post 15 and the links from it.


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## Tim Harrison (14 Apr 2021)

There is absolutely no need to use ammonia to cycle a planted tank for various reasons. Follow the link above provided by @sparkyweasel. But basically research suggests the use of ammonia does not guarantee the right species of bacteria will populate the filter. Either way,  more than enough ammonia usually leaches from substrate.

The bacteria on plant roots and leaves will inoculate your aquarium and filter. My tanks usually cycle adequately enough within a week or two, zero nitrate, nitrite and ammonia. The best advice is to plant densely from the outset and to introduce critters slowly so the filter flora have chance to keep up with the increase in bioload.

Setting up the tank with substrate and hardscape and cycling in the dark for a couple of weeks before adding plants is also becoming a popular choice. Which suggests that enough bacteria and nutrients are already present without adding plants and ammonia. I've used the method myself and it works a treat. Also, it greatly reduces the the likelihood of algal outbreaks.


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## Karmicnull (14 Apr 2021)

The concept of 'cycling' is trying to put a discrete traffic light lens on what is actually a gradual and continuous maturing.  The moment you put a sponge (or other surface) into water its bacteria and (importantly for us) archea colonies will start to develop, using the nutrient content inherently present in the water.  From then on in it's a gradual maturing process as you add more content to the tank.
In general the approach I use is:  plant up the tank and fill it full of water.  After a couple of weeks get bored of the green stuff on the glass and put some nerite snails in to deal with it for me.  After a couple of weeks more, add some cherry shrimp to deal with the annoying brown stuff that's growing everywhere.  A week or so later get tired of spooling out thread algea with a toothbrush and introduce a few Amanos to deal with it.  Pop some new plants in to replace the ones that didn't like my setup, and shuffle a few around that I was quite clearly bonkers for putting where I did.  A week or so later realise something is missing in that big open area and add a school of interesting fish.  A couple more weeks along get worried that I'm overfeeding as lots of BBA is appearing, and add some Cory cats to do a bit of hoovering.  Give it another week and realise the nerites are just not coping with keeping the glass clean on their own.  Add a Bristlenose or some Otos to help them.  a week or two later decide something is still missing, and add a feature fish to add that little bit of jazz.  Do some napkin maths and realise that my tank is fully stocked.  Conclude it must be cycled by now. 
The key to all this is that 'a couple of weeks' phrase that keeps cropping up.  Give the tank plenty of time to settle in at the beginning, and then every time you introduce more bioload, give your filter a couple of weeks to adapt. Then you'll be fine without having to worry about all this cycling stuff.


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## dw1305 (14 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Ian61 said:


> A biological filter is not going to establish without some form of ’nutrition‘, be it ammonia, fish waste, decaying vegetation or animal matter, added fish food etc. Not sure what you mean by ‘happen naturally’.


The only time you need to "cycle" a tank with ammonia is if you have a bare tank without any substrate or plants and intend to introduce your fish in "one hit", I'll call it the <"Mbuna scenario">. In this case *you are* entirely reliant on the micro-organisms in the filter for nitrification, but as soon as you have plants things become different.

Have a look at <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">.

As soon as you have plants you just need to let the plants grow in and then the plant/microbe biolfiltration will give you as much more resilient system. 

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (14 Apr 2021)

Well to speed up the cycling of my 500L tank FX6, I used a plastic bin 3/4 full of water  plumbed the filter in and a gave a glassful of urine in every few days for about 4-6 weeks. Then after 3 mouth DSM flooded and added some livestock pretty quick.


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## dw1305 (14 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Ian61 said:


> but is also stated to bind and render ammonia harmless. On the face of it, this will prevent cycling and presumably interfere with ammonia test results. On the other hand, not dechlorinating tap water is going to hinder establishing biological filtration.


I should have answered this one as well. Our tap water <"is lightly chlorinated"> (about 0.5 ppm Cl2) and that chlorine will rapidly out-gas via "Henry's Law", so if you don't have any livestock you can use chlorinated tap water. The effect it will have on the microbial assemblage is fairly small.

Seachem won't tell you how "Prime" works, but it doesn't actually permanently remove any of the fixed nitrogen it <"just shuffles it into less toxic forms">. It will interfere with <"ammonia test readings">, but if you use the "grow in" method you don't need to measure ammonia (NH3), nitrite (NO2-) or nitrate (NO3-), you just need to <"watch the plants">.

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (14 Apr 2021)

Tim Harrison said:


> The bacteria on plant roots and leaves will inoculate your aquarium and filter 👍











						Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!
					

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new,....it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum.  1. Improves water...



					www.ukaps.org


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## papa_c (14 Apr 2021)

Don't think I need to comment any more on the above 🙂

Except to say the boss in doors would chew my ear if I used @Zeus. method . 😂


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## Zeus. (14 Apr 2021)

papa_c said:


> Don't think I need to comment any more on the above 🙂
> 
> Except to say the boss in doors would chew my ear if I used @Zeus. method . 😂



I had the bin/filter in the garage so it was my jurisdiction, then timed the return of the glass


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## Ian61 (14 Apr 2021)

Brilliant. Thank you so much everybody. I’ll skip the ammonia cycle step.Bit lacking in confidence to heavily plant a brand new 120cm tank with assorted exotic, likely sacrificial, plants. As per previous advice I’ll get some cheap ‘weeds’ to get things started then evolve from there.


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## dw1305 (14 Apr 2021)

Hi all, 


Ian61 said:


> As per previous advice I’ll get some cheap ‘weeds’ to get things started then evolve from there.


I really like  a floating plant for <"the establishment phase">. They aren't CO2 limited (they have access to ~415 ppm atmospheric CO2) and this means that they can make use of any extra nutrients. 

cheers Darrel


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## Ian61 (14 Apr 2021)

Thanks Darrel. That’s definitely the way I’ll be going along with something submerged thats hardy and fast growing. Thanks for your help

Ian


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