# How to get my red plants redder??



## Frenchi (17 Apr 2014)

Hi ppl
I noticed that my red plants are more brown than red ... I dose Ei, do I need to add more of something ? 

Hope you can help 

Thanks 
Mick  


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## Julian (17 Apr 2014)

Hi Mick,

I don't know the answer, but you may find my experience helpful. 

I bought some Ludwigia Repens "Rubin" (red) from ebay. They arrived nice and red, then a week after planting they were all bright green. After doing a bit of research, lots of people will tell you to dose 'Flourish Iron' or some other equivalent product. This had zero impact on my plants after 3 months of dosing. I stopped dosing at this point. This isn't to say that 'Flourish Iron' wasn't doing it's job, but I believe another factor may have stopped it from working.

I've have had all sorts of Algae issues with my tank which I've recently found out to be because my lighting intensity was way too high. Now that I've turned the intensity down from 50% to 20%, even though I'm not dosing Iron any more, I can see the plants slowly changing colour again.

I haven't started dosing Iron yet, I want my tank to recover from it's algae issues before I start messing with the water chemistry, but I think having high light can turn your plants from red to green, so it could be that your plants are half way between, coming out slightly brown. You may find that turning the light intensity down (not the length of time the lights are on for) will help bring out the red a bit more, but this idea is purely hypothetical, given my experience and results.


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## Andy Thurston (17 Apr 2014)

Julian said:


> Hi Mick,
> 
> I don't know the answer, but you may find my experience helpful.
> 
> ...



If thats the case why do my red plants only go red where they are closer to the light?
And why do tropica say you need much more light coupled with good co2 to bring out the red colour. 
If you dose EI your plants should have all the nutrients they need


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## parotet (17 Apr 2014)

Red plants are also a mystery to me... While my Limnophila aromatica and Rotala turn redder when they grow and the stems are closer to the light with plenty of Co2, my Hygrophila polisperma tiger turns browner in the low tech tank with much less light... Of course there are some parameters I am missing in this comparison.

Jordi


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## Frenchi (17 Apr 2014)

This is so confusing haha!! I lifted my light higher because algae was starting to grow on the higher plants .., it seems there is a no win situation here  


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## Andy Thurston (17 Apr 2014)

Which would you rather have red plants or healthy plants?
My friends tank has a single red stem in it and has 2x 39w ho t5 over 125l. I'm not sure which red plant it is but its very red and all the plants are growing at an insane rate, the glosso gets trimmed weekly
Heres a link to the journal
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dan-and-andys-crypt.28846/page-6
I'll try and get a photo of the red stem later


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## harryH (17 Apr 2014)

High light high tech.

Red Plants grown under very high light conditions will require lots of CO2 and fertilisation and will in turn display the bright red you are looking for. However, if under the high light you do not balance the CO2 and fertilisation, algae will have a field day.  It's a challenging road to follow, I tend to just grow mine nice and brown and algae free and look for the pictures of those who grow these beautiful bright red plants, not least with a little envy.


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## Alan Fluxion (17 Apr 2014)

From what I recall, more light helps the plants get redder (W/L) but of course like with anything there are consequences


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## ceg4048 (17 Apr 2014)

The OP is advised to stop worrying about red and to continue best plant husbandry practices. 
Red will occur when plants are healthy and when red is ready.

Since no one really has any idea of the total set of conditions that will guarantee color, other than maximum health, it is a better idea to maximize plant health by doing all the things that are good for plants such as dosing, CO2 and clean water. That guarantees that the plant will have the energy to produce coloration, because coloration is energy/resource expensive.

Manipulating the tank in attempts to achieve red is dumB (with a capital "B").

Cheers,


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## Rasbora (17 Apr 2014)

I like the idea that the red is there, just waiting to pounce


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## Frenchi (17 Apr 2014)

Well ... We all have to start somewhere ... It is one big mine field .. How the hell did people succeed without the internet and forums like this ...  Cheers for your input guys I'll have to be patient  
I must add ceg I learned the hard way with your comment of clean water, I lost a few fish last week due to not enough clean water .. That's a first for me in a very long time .. Dosing Ei and not doing a 50% weekly water change is a no no!  I was doing a normal weekly 20% that I have done for years and my  phosphate and nitrate went sky high, I lost around 5 fish ... 
So lesson learned 


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## parotet (17 Apr 2014)

Frenchi said:


> Well ... We all have to start somewhere ... It is one big mine field .. How the hell did people succeed without the internet and forums like this



People grew algae tanks, thought too much ferts could cause algae, didn't know that flow was important, assumed that CO2 was the solution to all their problems, injected tones of Fe to get redder plants, that FEs could be used for something more than to extinguish fires, that there there was something called Rubisco that rules the world, that The Matrix was so related to their tanks....


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## ceg4048 (17 Apr 2014)

Frenchi said:


> phosphate and nitrate went sky high, I lost around 5 fish ...
> So lesson learned


Well the fish did not die of high phosphates or high nitrates. These have nothing to do with whether your water is considered clean or not. High nutrient loading cause high levels of organic toxic waste products to be expelled from the plants, thus fouling the water. Fish do not care if PO4 or NO3 is high, but they do care about Oxygen levels, which fall drastically when those organic waste products start to break down due to bacterial action.

Water changes therefore remove the organic waste pollution produced by the plants. I use sky high PO3 and NO3 all the time even after a water change and the fish don't suffer because the tank is highly oxygenated and is free of organic pollutants.

Cheers,


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## Frenchi (17 Apr 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Well the fish did not die of high phosphates or high nitrates. These have nothing to do with whether your water is considered clean or not. High nutrient loading cause high levels of organic toxic waste products to be expelled from the plants, thus fouling the water. Fish do not care if PO4 or NO3 is high, but they do care about Oxygen levels, which fall drastically when those organic waste products start to break down due to bacterial action.
> 
> Water changes therefore remove the organic waste pollution produced by the plants. I use sky high PO3 and NO3 all the time even after a water change and the fish don't suffer because the tank is highly oxygenated and is free of organic pollutants.
> 
> Cheers,


I see .. That explains further then, What is the best way to oxygenate  when using co2 ? 
Thanks for the info 



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## Martin in Holland (18 Apr 2014)

About red leaved plants, I only know from plant above water (non aquatic plants), but I guess they act in the same way...
Red or colored leaves are usually found in a sunny spot, if the same red plant is standing in the shade the leaves will turn green. The reason for this is simple, the red blocks the light so the plant changes from red to green to make the most of the little light is gets
The more light, the darker (redder) a plant will be (with the right nutrition ofcourse). But being in a tank, I would go for healthy plants and algae free first and worry about red much later.


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## EnderUK (18 Apr 2014)

Frenchi said:


> I see .. That explains further then, What is the best way to oxygenate  when using co2 ?
> Thanks for the info
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have the filter outlet rippling but not breaking the whole area of the water surface which then is pushed against glass and forced down into the depths of the tank carrying the o2 with it. If you have co2 you'll see the bubbles rolling around the tank.

Just think of the brown of a different shade within the tank, some of my plants are green, some of my plants (crypts) are green-red (brown), some of my swords are purple and some of my plants are red.


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## ceg4048 (18 Apr 2014)

Frenchi said:


> I see .. That explains further then, What is the best way to oxygenate when using co2 ?


Do frequent and massive water changes.
Remove as much organic debris from the tank, including the debris on the surface of the leaves as described in the post http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/algae-problems-help-please.6331/page-2#post-72428.
Keep the tank immaculately clean.

Cheers,


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## harryH (18 Apr 2014)

Well I have always associated lighting with the colour of the plants as explained by Martin as light is a pigment changer even in the colour of human skin!

But I would never argue with Clive's reasoning as I have the utmost respect for this guys help and undoubted knowledge and just love to read his posts.

Keeping the tank spotless, the idea of getting the hands in there and giving the plants a good old shake to get the debris off whilst doing masses of regular water changes and syphoning out all of the crud has simply got to be the best way to go in the way of tank hygiene. It then follows that with the correct CO2, flow and ferts, the plants will grow to their ultimate. But as regards how red they will get.??? lets' start experimenting, it's all part of the fun.


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## Frenchi (18 Apr 2014)

Thanks guys I have learned a lot from this thread I really have.. It now time to put it all in to practice I'll keep you updated to how I get on  


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## Andy Thurston (18 Apr 2014)

Nearly forgot



 
Excuse the GSA on the glass
Its not as red as it was now its shaded by the rotala next to it and the phone pic doesn't do it justice


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## Frenchi (18 Apr 2014)

Big clown said:


> Nearly forgot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks red to me .. This is a little something in the background but I want it redder lol 




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## foxfish (18 Apr 2014)

parotet said:


> People grew algae tanks, thought too much ferts could cause algae, didn't know that flow was important, assumed that CO2 was the solution to all their problems, injected tones of Fe to get redder plants, that FEs could be used for something more than to extinguish fires, that there there was something called Rubisco that rules the world, that The Matrix was so related to their tanks....


Not every one grew algae tanks before the internet!
We had good old magazines, there were three popular mags in the 80s - early 90s that was one every 10 days.
I was using CO2 & daily ferts 30 years ago... just with lower light than we do now!
Re the red plants, it might not be completely Co2 & light dependant because it is just as difficult to grow strong red colours in an immersed tank with sunlight.


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## GHNelson (18 Apr 2014)

Can Iron be absorbed through the leaves or floating roots?
Red colouration can be increased with high light intensity and over a long pedriod of time....with the addition of good Co2 levels and Macro/Micro fertilzers.
GH/KH may play apart some how?
Above unplanted Blyxa sp japonica on the surface.
Green thread algae can rear its head if the lighting is too long.
Just a few of my thoughts.
Cheers
hoggie


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## Andy Thurston (18 Apr 2014)

Immersed?

Just use lights with more red in the spectrum to give the illusion of redder plants, look at tom barr's journal
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dutch-something-or-the-other-120-gal.17797/page-32
Look at the colour of the tubes in his lighting setup! Yes the red plants are red but the lights make them look even more red


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## GHNelson (18 Apr 2014)

No floating as the Blyxa was.
Cheers


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## foxfish (18 Apr 2014)

OK sorry... roots immersed in wet substrate & foliage in warm humid air 
I really don't like - not being able to edit your own post after a few minutes!


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## Andy Thurston (18 Apr 2014)

foxfish said:


> OK sorry... roots immersed in wet substrate & foliage in warm humid air
> I really don't like - not being able to edit your own post after a few minutes!


I agree a hour would be much better sometimes I realise just after the time limit.
I did think that was what you meant especially when you mentioned unlimited co2
Possibly a little off topic but with hydroponics the addition of co2 is pointless without raising the temperature conciderably, do you think a co2 shortfall could be possible in an emersed setup like yours if the temperature is high enough?
I feel another propagator experiment coming on, I just need to get another propagator, find a spot which gets a full day worth of sun and use my welding co2 setup


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## foxfish (18 Apr 2014)

No I don't think you would get any Co2 shortage, even in a sealed unit, as the plants produce enough.
In the summer months I like to vent my set ups anyway as I can then replace evaporated water every day (or so) with liquid fert enriched water.


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