# High GH and "softening filter"



## RichTea (13 Jul 2022)

Hi all,

I have found the GH from my tap water is quite high, 22dgh reading from the NTlabs test kit its gone up over the last year from 17.

I have not been too worried about this in my tank but we also noticed its affected the taste of tea, I was looking at getting an inline filter for drinking water and am considering getting "large" set of filters to put inline from our supply and am wondering how this would affect GH.

I looked at the aqfilter set with 3 stages...
FCPS5 sediment cartridge
2 x FCCST Water softening and iron reducing cartridge

.

From my limited research it seems like this set up would reduced GH and be safe to use for tank water is that right?

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## _Maq_ (14 Jul 2022)

RichTea said:


> Water softening and iron reducing cartridge


I don't know that particular product but I assume it's on the principle of so called '_technical softener_'. It replaces calcium cations with sodium. Not recommended, neither for aquarium nor for good tea.
The best solution by far is reverse osmosis. I'm a tea connoisseur and I prepare my teas from RO water only.


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## Wookii (14 Jul 2022)

RichTea said:


> From my limited research it seems like this set up would reduced GH and be safe to use for tank water is that right?



No, not as far as I can tell - is it this product:






						Water Softening Filter Cartridge FCCST-SL | Aquafilter
					

See more information about water softening filter cartridge FCCST-SL. Visit Aquafilter website and check out the whole offer of the quality products.




					aquafilter.com
				




If so, that uses a sodium based ion exchange resin, which basically means it switches calcium and magnesium ions in the water (those that contribute to general hardness) with sodium ions. While that's fine for the rest of your house - it will benefit showers, toilets, white goods etc with reduced limescale build-up, it won't do anything to improve the taste of your tea - in fact its likely to make the water take a lot worse. Generally water softeners needs a drinking water bypass. It also certainly won't be any good for your aquarium - high levels of sodium are not good for freshwater tanks.

You could try a carbon filter instead to see if it improves the taste of your tea, as the GH may not be the reason for the taste difference you are experiencing. If you still wanted to reduce the mineral content of your drinking/tea water then some sort of RO or inline DI resin will be the way to go. To be honest though if it's just for a few cups of tea and glasses of water a day, a Brita filter style jug would be the obvious option since that contains both carbon and ion exchange resin, so it should both soften the water and improve taste.


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## _Maq_ (14 Jul 2022)

Wookii said:


> the GH may not be the reason for the taste difference you are experiencing


This is off-topic but high mineralization in general is not good for a good tea. Replacing Ca + Mg by Na makes the taste even worse. Soft water is the way. I took it to an extreme and use RODI water. Both for tea-making AND for my tanks (which I mineralize, of course). This ability to make my water exactly like I want it to be has made me happy - and my tanks, too.


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## Aleman (14 Jul 2022)

👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆 This 👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆

It's also great for coffee


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## Garuf (14 Jul 2022)




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## dw1305 (14 Jul 2022)

Hi all,


RichTea said:


> I have found the GH from my tap water is quite high, 22dgh reading from the NTlabs test kit its gone up over the last year from 17.


What do your water company results say? They have <"an analytical lab."> and their values will be accurate.

It is likely to be the test kit, rather than the water, just because ~17 dGH is pretty much the value you get when the water <"is fully saturated with calcium ions from limestone (CaCO3)">. To get higher levels of dGH isn't easy without some additional <"evaporite minerals"> in the water.


RichTea said:


> I have not been too worried about this in my tank but we also noticed its affected the taste of tea,


<"Coffee drinker personally">.


dw1305 said:


> I'll be honest I hate getting up at any time of the day, and the first half an hour of any day is spent drinking a black coffee and contemplating the pointlessness of existence (and often it is all down hill from there for the rest of the day).





_Maq_ said:


> Replacing Ca + Mg by Na makes the taste even worse


I definitely agree with that one: <"Water filter/softener (regeneration salt) and water for planted aquarium">, but I much prefer <"hard water to drink">.

cheers Darrel


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## _Maq_ (14 Jul 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> I'll be honest I hate getting up at any time of the day, and the first half an hour of any day is spent drinking a black coffee and contemplating the pointlessness of existence (and often it is all down hill from there for the rest of the day).


🤣  Exactly! The only difference is that I drink tea and smoke, and it definitely takes more than half an hour.


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## dw1305 (14 Jul 2022)

> Hi all,





_Maq_ said:


> The only difference is that I drink tea and smoke, and it definitely takes more than half an hour.


Maybe that is the Czech breakfast? Although Google suggests coffee or tea, some wheat / rye bread and ham or cheese, which sounds much too sensible.

Black Coffee and a cigarette is the Italian/French/Spanish Breakfast*, and I have the <"Italian Breakfast light">.


> _......... because it suits <"my morning routine"> of a black coffee, thinking about a cigarette and 20 minutes of contemplating <"the meaning of life"> (while changing the tank water)........_


Although, to be honest, following this mornings "interviews" with our new potential prime ministers, 


> Blörö - the famous Finnish breakfast consisting of hot coffee, vodka and a cigarette


is sounding appealing.

_* Apparently claimed by several countries, but we had an Italian (Francesco, a wondeful human being) stay with us for a couple of months and it will always be the Italian Breakfast for me._

cheers Darrel


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## RichTea (14 Jul 2022)

This is the one I was looking at 







						AQFILTERS
					






					aqfilters.square.site
				










						AQFILTERS
					






					aqfilters.square.site
				





"Aquafilter FCCST 10" Water softening cartridge. FCCST utilizes FDA-grade, sodium, based, strongly acidic ion-exchange resin which reduces calcium and magnesium ion content in water."

Okay sound like I need to rethink completely for both Tea,Coffee and fish!

Does Yorkshire tea count as a valid way to minralise water for you tank, blackwater style  

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## RichTea (14 Jul 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> What do your water company results say? They have /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/testing-kit-recommendations.68587/page-2#post-682396']an analytical lab.[/URL]"> and their values will be accurate.
> 
> ...


I can only find a reportedly from 2017 on their site (Yorkshire water).

I'll check the data on my NT Labs test kit, I have another test kit too I'll check the results with that too.

Thanks

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## RichTea (14 Jul 2022)

https://aqfilters.square.site/product/3-stage-10-water-purifier-and-softening-filter-kit/647

https://aqfilters.square.site/product/aquafilter-fccst-10-water-softening-cartridge/380
Seem to have worked the links above and taptalk won't let me edit them!

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## Wookii (15 Jul 2022)

RichTea said:


> I can only find a reportedly from 2017 on their site (Yorkshire water).



Try this link:









						Yorkshire Water - Check your water hardness
					

Providing essential water and waste water services is only the start of what we do. Find out where we are now and where we plan to be in 25 years time. Do you have hard water? Find out more about the water hardness in your area with Yorkshire Water. Water hardness is the measure of the...




					www.yorkshirewater.com


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## RichTea (15 Jul 2022)

Wookii said:


> Try this link:


That's where I looked later report covering up to 2018, I guess things should not of changed much from there side... But my dGH readings did go up, through ether my test kit changing or the water we do have pritty crappy water delivery, last time people from Yorkshire water were here there was grumbling about things should not be connected up like that (we have one stop tap for our side of the street taken directly of the mains ) .

I'll get my old test kit out at some point and see what it says!


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## Wookii (15 Jul 2022)

RichTea said:


> That's where I looked later report covering up to 2018, I guess things should not of changed much from there side... But my dGH readings did go up, through ether my test kit changing or the water we do have pritty crappy water delivery, last time people from Yorkshire water were here there was grumbling about things should not be connected up like that (we have one stop tap for our side of the street taken directly of the mains ) .
> 
> I'll get my old test kit out at some point and see what it says!



So you put in your postcode and it gave you a report from 2018? That's not great. You should be able to contact them directly and get an up to date report - they have to test on a monthly basis I believe.


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## RichTea (15 Jul 2022)

Wookii said:


> So you put in your postcode and it gave you a report from 2018? That's not great. You should be able to contact them directly and get an up to date report - they have to test on a monthly basis I believe.


Unless I am misunderstanding...


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## _Maq_ (15 Jul 2022)

@RichTea It seems your water hardness is 6.1 °dGH...


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## dw1305 (15 Jul 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> It seems your water hardness is 6.1 °dGH...


<"It does">, that is 43.9 / 7.1 = 6.15 dGH (calculation below), that would also fit with the conductivity value of 281 microS.


> By definition, 1dGH = 10 mg/liter CaO
> Atomic Weight Ca = 40, O = 16, CaO = 56
> So 10 mg/liter CaO contains 40/56 *10 = 7.143 mg/liter of Ca
> By definition ppm Ca is not for elemental calcium but for ppm CaCO3.
> ...





> *1dGH = 17.86 ppm CaCO3 and 7.143 ppm Ca++*.


and low nitrate (NO3-).  I'd be pretty happy with that as tap water and you can use it straight out of the tap for tea  and (after dechlorination)  for nearly all fish and plants.





cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (15 Jul 2022)

Hi all,


RichTea said:


> Does Yorkshire tea count as a valid way to minralise water for you tank, blackwater style


We have a thread <"Can tea be used to add tannins and colour to tank?"> and there is a thread on <"PlanetCatfish">, although it was "Rooibos tea" rather than "Yorkshire".

I bought some (and tried drinking) Rooibos tea and I can appreciate why you  would want to put it in the fish tank. 

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy (15 Jul 2022)

Perhaps the removal from solution of tannic acid from tea by the high calcium ion content of hard water affects the taste. Calcium tannate is insoluble in water and often leaves a brown precipitate in the cup. However boiling the water should should lower the hardness by converting the bicarbonate to virtually insoluble carbonate.  I suppose if the hardness is due magnesium sulphate boiling would have no effect. Magnum tannate is sparingly soluble in water and would also produce a precipitate.

What an interesting off topic this thread has become.

Bottom line its all about person taste and I suppose the type of tea that you like.


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## RichTea (20 Jul 2022)

Has any one used a "Geekpure" RO system?
I have been looking for reviews online but can only find ones on Amazon, its described as a drinking water system but from my limited knowledge seem to have all the right parts:

1st stage: PP spun filter  (5um)
2nd stage: Granular carbon filter (5um)
3rd stage: Carbon block filter  (5um)
4th stage: TFC Ro membrane (75GPD) 
5th stage: acid washed coconut carbon filter
Would this do the trick as a cheapish RO system ? My thought was I would use the water from it mixed with my tap water.


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## Wookii (20 Jul 2022)

RichTea said:


> Has any one used a "Geekpure" RO system?
> I have been looking for reviews online but can only find ones on Amazon, its described as a drinking water system but from my limited knowledge seem to have all the right parts:
> 
> 1st stage: PP spun filter  (5um)
> ...



This one?

Amazon product

Looks good to me - especially as it states that the carbon block filter removes chloramine also. Not sure of the relevance on the post carbon filter, but it can't hurt. Looks good value give you get the small tank and spare carts also.

Edit: One thing to bear in mind is that it doesn't have a pump, and the 75 gpd rating is based in 60psi / 4 bar. UK water regs state that mains supply has to be at least 1 bar, but many places don't get much more than that, so it will depend on your local supply. With a lower pressure you'll get much more waste water, and slower rate of RO water produced. You can easily by a pump and plumb it in though if necessary.


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## RichTea (16 Aug 2022)

Well its been a while but I finally got my self an RO unit, its a Finer Filters "6 stage reverse osmosis system with booster pump 50gpd"
Its a "home ro system" with a tank for drinking water and a mineralization cartridge. 
So I have added a splitter and valves after the RO membrane, one to a container for Tank water one to the 'drinking water" tank which will then flow through a carbon filter and the minimization filter before the tap at the sink.

So for the aquarium water the filters are:

Stage 1 5 micron sediment,
Stage 2 granular activated carbon,
Stage 3 Carbon block filter,
stage 4 50 GPD Reverse Osmosis membrane.


Quick testing today shows the tds from the filter to be 10ppm and my tap water as 400.


Should this be okay for the aquarium, or do I need a di filter too? My plan is to just mix the ro water with tap water for my tank.



Just in case any one is interested:
Stage 5 is a Post-Carbon filter
Stage 6 is a Remineralizing filter


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## Aleman (17 Aug 2022)

As you are mixing back with tap water you'll be fine as is. 👍


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## _Maq_ (17 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> My plan is to just mix the ro water with tap water for my tank.


I always read with regret when people mix RO water with tap water. Once you've invested in acquiring reverse osmosis it's just one relatively easy and cheap step from complete perfection: mineralizing RO water with dry salts. That is the way to 'perfect' water, matching exactly your wish.


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## RichTea (17 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Once you've invested in acquiring reverse osmosis it's just one relatively easy and cheap step from complete perfection: mineralizing RO water with dry salts. That is the way to 'perfect' water, matching exactly your wish.



Interesting, are there any bigger guides you would recommend so i can start to learn what is required?


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## _Maq_ (17 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> are there any bigger guides you would recommend


I'm not aware of any 'Short & Simple Guide to Perfect Water'. Perhaps because there's no perfect water to suit anyone's needs and intentions.
You can try IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator
As always, _first_ you need to know what you want, and _then_ you search for tools to bring it about.


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## dw1305 (17 Aug 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> You can try IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator. I'm not aware of any 'Short & Simple Guide to Perfect Water'.


The <"IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator"> is pretty comprehensive.

Traditionally I usually refer people to (former UKAPS member) James C 's web pages at <"James' Planted Tank Web Page">:

<"James' Planted Tank - Re-mineralising RO Water">
<"James' Planted Tank - All In One Solution">
I assume the maths is right on these, but I've never checked.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (18 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> Interesting, are there any bigger guides you would recommend so i can start to learn what is required?



As suggest above, the IFC Calculator now includes a Remineralisation section making it very easy to work out your salt quantities.

For a very simple 'fag packet' method, just buy Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Sulphate (both readily available online), and add an equal quantity of each to your RO water change water (or to the tank immediately after a water change).

Half a gram of each will remineralise 10 litres of RO to roughly 3dGH in approximately the often targeted 3:1 (Ca:Mg) ratio. You can then use that to calculate what you need for your specific water change quantity and/or target GH.

For example if you want to change 25 litres and target 5dGH, then: 0.5g / 10 litres x 25 litres / 3dGH x 5dGH = ~2.0g of each salt


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## RichTea (18 Aug 2022)

Thanks everyone, I'll do some reading up and testing.

Currently my tank water measurements are around, 7dKH, 20dGH and 480 tds.
The ro water is 2dKH, 3dGH and 10 tds.

Will it be safe to do some "raw" ro water changes for now to start bringing my tank readings down? 

The tank is a 340 but I must have at least 40 of that with substrate, decoration and plants. So 300l of water I was thinking of doing a 25l chance. So 1/12th.

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## _Maq_ (18 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> The ro water is 2dKH, 3dGH and 10 tds.


Impossible. There must be something wrong about your measurements.


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## RichTea (18 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Impossible. There must be something wrong about your measurements.


I am using an NT Labs test kit and an old "eBay' tds meter so that is very possible! 
What seems odd about the readings?

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## RichTea (18 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> I am using an NT Labs test kit and an old "eBay' tds meter so that is very possible!
> What seems odd about the readings?
> 
> Sent from my MI 9 using Tapatalk


Oh I went back and tested again, this time using a cleaner container to collect the water! (Must remember not to use old plastic cup for testing water)

0dKH, 1dGH, 6tds, 


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## Wookii (19 Aug 2022)

RichTea said:


> Thanks everyone, I'll do some reading up and testing.
> 
> Currently my tank water measurements are around, 7dKH, 20dGH and 480 tds.
> The ro water is 2dKH, 3dGH and 10 tds.



As @_Maq_  says there is something wrong there, and there would be something wrong with the RO system if it was measuring that high in the product water, but your re-measurements look better.



RichTea said:


> Oh I went back and tested again, this time using a cleaner container to collect the water! (Must remember not to use old plastic cup for testing water)
> 
> 0dKH, 1dGH, 6tds,



Your GH is likely significantly less than 1, so for remineralising purposes, just assume its zero. If you really want to accurately test, you can just double or quadruple your sample water when performing the GH drip test.



RichTea said:


> Will it be safe to do some "raw" ro water changes for now to start bringing my tank readings down?
> 
> The tank is a 340 but I must have at least 40 of that with substrate, decoration and plants. So 300l of water I was thinking of doing a 25l chance. So 1/12th.
> 
> Sent from my MI 9 using Tapatalk



Yes, you will be fine doing that every couple of days and just forgo your usual weekly water change until you have hit your target values in tank.


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## MichaelJ (3 Oct 2022)

> Blörö - the famous Finnish breakfast consisting of hot coffee, vodka and a cigarette


Bourbon added  straight to the coffee and a cigarette works well too 



_Maq_ said:


> I always read with regret when people mix RO water with tap water. Once you've invested in acquiring reverse osmosis it's just one relatively easy and cheap step from complete perfection: mineralizing RO water with dry salts. That is the way to 'perfect' water, matching exactly your wish.



I would generally agree with this.  Way in the past I have used RO + Tap  (like 60% RO and 40% tap to reach the KH/GH I was aiming for back then). The problem with RODI is that only about 15-25% of the water coming into the system is actually purified, the rest is waste plus the time it takes to make the water and store it. All this is an issue, especially for a large tank.  However, the downside of mixing RO/Tap is that your really not much in control in terms of what your getting - Yes, you lower your water hardness, but the exact Calcium/Magnesium amounts, the amounts of Nitrates, Phosphates, Copper, Zinc, Chlorine and other unwanted minerals, compounds and (possible) pollutants remains largely unknown.  Long time ago I switched over to remineralizing pure RODI water and  just dialed back my WC percentage and WC frequency a bit to lessen the waste.  Works for me and my two 150L / 40 US Gallon tanks.

Cheers,
Michael


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