# Will APFUK starter kit suit my needs?? 4 Month update with pics



## EA James

Hi all,

During lockdown i bought my first lot of dry salts, individually from Aqua plants care. Since then I've had a few minor issues caused by excess nutrients and from posts on here a few people thought my nitrates were high enough from the tap to not need to add any more.

I Haven't been dosing for around a month now and surprisingly the diatom looking algae has cleared up and the glass is staying clean in between water changes. I'm also injecting co2 so i'm quite shocked that i'm not having any issues.....BUT!... I know that its probably not going to stay like that?! Saying that I'm starting to see a bit of a difference in some of the leaves of my crypts (yellow dots) but I'm not sure on what that is but generally the tanks doing ok.

So according to my water report my minimum nitrate level is 31.6 and i think the max was around 40ppm. I was using potassium nitrate in my old recipe so firstly does the APFUK starter contain that and if so should i not add any? Or should i swap the KNO3 for something else? 

Also on that note how long would it take for the nitrates in my tank to deplete? I'm guessing plant volume would play a big part in that answer so probably a stupid question?! 

I'll post a pic of the tank in it's current condition so you can see the plant mass for the fert help, as always, any help will be appreciated 👍

Cheers, James


----------



## EA James




----------



## X3NiTH

APFUK salts totally fine to use.

If there is a commensurate amount of Potassium to Nitrogen in the tap water then omit the KNO3 from your dosing regime, if there’s not then you can supplement Potassium from either Potassium Chloride or Potassium Sulphate, the Carbonate or Bicarbonate of Potassium if used will increase the KH (Carbonate Hardness) of the tank water and pH will rise correspondingly.

If you are using Magnesium Sulphate as part of your macro mix (it comes in the APFUK kit along with KNO3) then I would suggest sourcing and using Potassium Chloride for the Potassium rather than the Sulphate if only to limit the total amount of Sulphate in the tank.

There’s not many limits to what you can do, nothing stopping you getting creative and using all the forms of Potassium together if you need to get specific values for everything in the water.


----------



## EA James

Hi @X3NiTH sorry i haven't had the time to reply to you sooner. Thank you for the reply



X3NiTH said:


> If there is a commensurate amount of Potassium to Nitrogen in the tap water


I don't that I'm afraid, I'm still very new the whole EI thing and science wasn't my strong point at school and still isn't now so to be honest i find it all a bit confusing! Do i need a Potassium test kit to help find the answer?



X3NiTH said:


> nothing stopping you getting creative


Apart from lack of knowledge 😂 I'm trying to get it to sink in so please bare with me!

Thanks again


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





EA James said:


> Do i need a Potassium test kit to help find the answer?


No, you don't. There <"is a kit">, but it is actually quite difficult to measure <"potassium (K) levels colormetrically">, because of the <"solubility of potassium salts">. 

Measurement is very straightforward with any of <"Flame Photometry, Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometry (AAS) or Inductively Coupled Plasma (ICP)"> if you have access to them.

Your water company has the right analytical kit, but there isn't a regulatory limit for potassium, so most companies don't report the value.

If you have high levels of nitrate (NO3-) in your tap water, you are also likely to have elevated levels of potassium from the same sources.

If you thought you might have low potassium levels and you  didn't want to add any potassium nitrate (KNO3), then @X3NiTH's is a good suggestion





X3NiTH said:


> I would suggest sourcing and using potassium chloride


KCl is easy to find as "sodium free salt".

cheers Darrel


----------



## X3NiTH

Natural background Potassium levels worldwide in drinking water supplies is usually somewhere between 1ppm to 5ppm, there are outliers to this of course depending on local mineralogy and agricultural pollution. Here’s what the WHO have to say about background potassium - Potassium– Background Document Revised WHO draft – March 2009

If you assume you have low levels then you can add a Potassium source to a commensurate level to that of the Nitrate and be a near or not far over 1:1 ratio of N:K if there is already 1:1 of N:K without a further salt addition then adding more is ok, a ratio of N:K where 1:>2 is not problematical, I have run 1:>5 (sourced from Potassium Bicarbonate for KH dosing) and I never saw any issue.

Add whatever is easiest!


----------



## EA James

dw1305 said:


> If you have high levels of nitrate (NO3-) in your tap water


Minimum 31.6
Mean 35.5
Max 40.5 
I'm guessing I'd work off the middle figure? Is that an adequate amount for my tank for the week? 



X3NiTH said:


> If you assume you have low levels then you can add a Potassium source to a commensurate level to that of the Nitrate


Well from looking at potassium deficiencies on good old google today i think a few of my plants may be suffering with this. But, I haven't been dosing any ferts for about 5/6 weeks now so that could be why, not sure if they were there before. I'll take your advice and get some potassium chloride, i then use that instead of the potassium nitrate in my mix?

Thanks guys


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


EA James said:


> Minimum 31.6
> Mean 35.5
> Max 40.5
> I'm guessing I'd work off the middle figure? Is that an adequate amount for my tank for the week?


Yes, that should be plenty of NO3, even the minimum value (which will be sometime in the winter) is pretty high.


EA James said:


> I'll take your advice and get some potassium chloride, i then use that instead of the potassium nitrate in my mix?


Yes.  There is a slight difference in the % percentage pf potassium, the RAM of K is 39.1 and the RMM of KNO3 is 101 and it is  39% K.  For KCl the RMM is 74.5  and it is 39.1/74.5 = 52.5% potassium.

This means that there is the same amount of potassium in 1g of KNO3 and ~0.7g of KCl.


EA James said:


> i think a few of my plants may be suffering with this. But, I haven't been dosing any ferts for about 5/6 weeks now so that could be why,


You should get a pretty instant greening if your plants are potassium deficient. For geological reasons your tap water won't have supplied much magnesium (Mg) either, so that is another possibility for the deficiency symptoms.

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

Thanks for the reply @dw1305 thats helped things be more clearer in my head! 
These are the few deficiencies I’ve noticed and from what I’ve read online they do seem to be caused by lack of potassium and/or magnesium, would you agree?
Cheers, James


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


EA James said:


> These are the few deficiencies I’ve noticed and from what I’ve read online they do seem to be caused by lack of potassium and/or magnesium, would you agree?


Looks likely. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

@dw1305 @X3NiTH 
Evening all, i need some help if would please?! 

I took your advice and sourced some Potassium Chloride to replace the KNO3 for my mix, I've also replaced my previous trace elements for the APFUK trace from previous advice here on the forum.

The salts i now have in stock are-

Potassium Chloride
Monopotassium Phosphate
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Sulphate

So basically i'd like some help with how to mix it all up correctly, I don't know how much of each one to add. And do i need to use all four in my mix? I know there are the dosing calculators on here but i can't figure it out! Last time i used @Zeus. calculator but that was with ALOT of his guidance! I don't know how much i should dose into the tank once its mixed either, i find it so confusing! 

Any help would be great 

Cheers, James


----------



## Zeus.

How much to dose is a tricky question to answer, as it would be nice to dose just enough to prevent waste in salts and using excessive water. The excessive use of salts can easily be compensated for by watering your garden/hose plants with old tank water. Seeing as you have you own salts I would aim for the EI/Clives dosing ppm's, then if all is growing well just reduce the dose in small 10% drops waiting 4-6 weeks and as soon as you see some plants showing deficiencies just increase the dose 10%


----------



## X3NiTH

Personally I would treat the Sulphates and Chlorides as remineralisation salts to be added at water change (provided it’s a 50% change to prevent accumulation) the phosphate I would add first to a level at water change and then dosed according to EI (alternate dosing temporally from micro/iron dose). I would ratio the potassium content to total nitrate after water change to around 1:1 (excluding the K from KPhos extra ppm dosing during the week as it’s minimal). I would do 1:1 with the potassium sulphate and potassium chloride at a minimum, if I were to go further I would maybe calculate the total sulphate content of the water from the added magnesium sulphate and maybe the totals for the micro (maybe 1 or 2 ppm overall over the week) and then balance the totals to be 1:1 chloride to sulphate, it’s not essential it’s just me!


----------



## EA James

Zeus. said:


> Seeing as you have you own salts I would aim for the EI/Clives dosing ppm's, then if all is growing well just reduce the dose in small 10% drops waiting 4-6 weeks and as soon as you see some plants showing deficiencies just increase the dose 10%


Ok that makes sense, where can i find those dosing ppm's? I remember you had them on your calculator but that's not ready yet is it?

@X3NiTH I'm really sorry but i don't understand that at all! I'm pretty much a complete beginner at the whole dry salts/ferts thing. Sorry 🤦‍♂️


----------



## Zeus.




----------



## EA James

Zeus. said:


> View attachment 156089


That's great but i'm still none the wiser of how to mix it up 😂

Perhaps i should have just bought the starter kit, measuring a couple of spoons out suits my knowledge haha


----------



## X3NiTH

Ok rather than try to explain the above again we can go through the workings using real numbers, to do this I need to know (in this thread to keep it all in one place) -

1. Tank Water Volume?

2. GH and KH (if you don’t know this can you find and link to your local water report, if not let us know the area you live and we can look)?

3. Would you rather add the macro (K+Mg) elements in one go at water change (remineralisation) and dose your N+P source macro every other day (Micro dosed on the alternate days as per EI) or do you want to roll it all together in one bottle for using 3 macro doses per week as per EI = Macro-Micro-Macro-Micro-Macro-DayOff?

4. Any preference as to the average level of Nitrate you want in the water if you have control of this (depends how much on average is in the tap supply whether larger amounts of N are needed)?

5. List of all the salts you have to hand?

From this we should have a good idea of what you should be dosing.


----------



## X3NiTH

Senior moment!
:-/


----------



## X3NiTH

Okay senior moment done with, you can ignore query 4, I’m all good with having answers here to the rest of the queries though if you can (so if others stumble across this page then all the workings are here to compare/replicate).


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH You're a star, Thank you so much 🙂

1. Tank water volume is 330 litres, Canister filter is 14 litres

2. GH and KH I'm not 100% sure on if i'm being honest. My water report has total hardness of 283ppm if that helps at all?
   GH reading from an NT labs liquid test kit is 15 doh and KH was 10 doh (I know a few members don't like test kits hence the not being sure part!)
   I live in Wraysbury in Berkshire just in case you need that, Water supplier is Affinity water.

3. I would prefer to dose Macro Micro on alternate days then WC as a rest day if that's ok?

4. Level of Nitrate i have no idea whats needed but on the water report my average 35.5, minimum was 31.6 and max 40.5ppm

5. Ok salts i have available at home are-

Potassium Chloride
Magnesium Sulfate 
Monopotassium Phosphate
Potassium Sulphate
Potassium Nitrate
Chelated Trace elements 

I answered number 4 as i think too much info is better than not enough! Anything else you need I'll send over straight away. Thanks again, i really appreciate it 👍

Cheers, James


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


EA James said:


> I live in Wraysbury in Berkshire just in case you need that..........My water report has total hardness of 283ppm if that helps at all?


Useful, it just means that your water is pretty much fully saturated with Ca++ and HCO3- ions, and that <"you have about 16 dGH and 16 dKH">.


EA James said:


> Ok salts i have available at home are-
> 
> Potassium Chloride
> Magnesium Sulfate
> Monopotassium Phosphate
> Potassium Sulphate
> Potassium Nitrate
> Chelated Trace elements


I'd just use the <"Rotala Butterfly nutrient calculator"> (workings below four dosings a week to give you EI nutrient levels), all the salts will be on there. The <"UKAPS nutrient calculator"> will build on this basis, but include a lot more in terms of price comparisons, novel salts etc.




If you have a salt that isn't included, you can still work out its nutrient content if you know a few details:

You need to work out the percentage of the nutrients in each salt, using the RAM of each element and the RMM of the compound.

I'll do KNO3 (it is actually <"earlier in the thread">) because it is nice and straight forward and both cation (K+) and anion (NO3-) are of use to us.

For potassium nitrate (KNO3), the RAM of K is 39.1, N = 14 and O = 16 and the RMM of KNO3 is 101.1 Which means that it is 36% K and 64% NO3 (14 +(3 * 16).

When you've added 10g of KNO3 you've added 3.6g of potassium and 6.4g of nitrate. A litre of water weighs 1000g which is 10^3 milligrams (mg) and 10^6 micrograms (ųg), and "ppm"  is equivalent to mg/L. This is the basic data that all the nutrient calculators use.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

I like to dose at 100ml as makes it dead easy to reduce dose in 10% steps


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


dw1305 said:


> but include a lot more in terms of price comparisons, novel salts etc.


Definitive proof.


Zeus. said:


> View attachment 156106
> View attachment 156107
> View attachment 156109
> I like to dose at 100ml as makes it dead easy to reduce dose in 10% steps



cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

@dw1305 Thank you for taking the time to look into that for me  I've had a look at the calculators on here but if I'm being honest i cant make much sense of them!

@Zeus. Thank you, again! That wont have my tap water included in it though so will that cause overdosing problems? Darrel has said my nitrates out the tap are sufficient enough without needing to add more. Could i just leave that out of the mix or is it not that simple? Cheers for going out your way though matey. 
New calculator is looking real good by the way, when is it going to be ready? I could really do with it right now!!

Sorry about the delayed reply guys, We've had all 7 children here today so its been a bit manic 🥱 

Thanks all


----------



## X3NiTH

Apologies for the treacle slow response.

I’ve had a good look at your water report here -

AffinityWater - https://www.affinitywater.co.uk/docs/Water_quality/water-quality-report-2018.pdf

Actual detailed report for Jan-Dec 2019 - https://www.affinitywater.co.uk/docs/water-quality/AF085.pdf

This is a breakdown list of the elements and their concentrations in your water supply that are important to plants.

KH 230ppm
GH (as CaCO3) 283ppm

Ca (Calcium) 113ppm
Mg (Magnesium) <1ppm (calculated from the GH)
NO3 (Nitrate) 31.6 / 35.5 / 40.5ppm
K (Potassium) <5ppm (not measured so referring to WHO document on potassium in drinking water) - https://www.who.int/water_sanitatio...guidelines/chemicals/potassium-background.pdf

PO4 (Phosphate) Not listed, Mean value per BGS 1ppm - https://www2.bgs.ac.uk/groundwater/dating/phosphorusIsotopes.html

SO4 (Sulphate) 55 / 66 / 84ppm
Cl (Chloride) 43 / 57 / 68ppm
Fe (Iron) <0.015ppm / <0.015ppm / 0.108ppm
Mn (Manganese) <0.0001 /<0.0001 / 0.0091ppm
Zn (Zinc) <0.01ppm (not measured so referring to WHO document on zinc in hard drinking water) - https://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/chemicals/zinc.pdf
Cu (Copper) <0.01 / <0.01 / <0.01ppm
Ni (Nickel) <0.002 / <0.002 / 0.0028ppm
B (Boron) <0.1 / <0.1 / <0.1ppm
Mo (Molybdenum) <0.0001  / - / 0.0005ppm (not measured so referring to BGS map for Mo in drinking water) -

https://www2.bgs.ac.uk/groundwater/health/molybdenum.html




Other Elements of note -

Na (Sodium) 25.4 / 33.6 / 42.9ppm
Al (Aluminium) 0.0074 / 0.0264 / 0.0479ppm

Here is the British Geological Survey  data for your region.




https://www2.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/download/england/berkshireMap.pdf

As you can see the bedrock is almost entirely Chalk, hence the lack of Magnesium in the water and the resulting hardness.

I listed the sodium concentration because if your water does have less than 5ppm of Potassium then the plants are going to have a hard time finding it and may be up taking sodium to transport elements in its place, this has already been noted above with the pinhole deficiencies on leaves suggesting lack of Potassium.

I also listed the Aluminium content only because it is a hallmark for water remediation to remove heavy metals (addition of Aluminium Hydroxides to flocculate heavy metals out of solution), mainly Iron and Manganese because they both stain laundry, manganese in particular makes water taste foul when it’s concentration is above 0.05ppm. You can see the evidence for this with consistently low trace metal values for the Minimum and Mean being less than a total amount and the Maximum being at a level either indicating the water is without remediation or it is a breakthrough value above what can be moderated for by addition of flocculants and chelates.

Now we know what we are talking about let’s start making suggestions on how you can make your water more nutritious for the plants.

Firstly the Magnesium which is nearly void from the tap water needs to be elevated to a level that allows it to be always available for the plants, but to what level should you aim for. Plant tissue levels for Magnesium are around 3:1 Ca:Mg, the Solubility for MgCO3:CaCO3 is around 10:1, Interstitial soils that have water flowing over them from a Calcium and Magnesium based geology usually results in a level of around 10:1 Ca:Mg in the soil available to plant roots (this is not exact and there is huge variations depending on the underlying geology). You can chose anywhere between the lower 10:1 Ca:Mg value to the upper value 3:1 Ca:Mg to ensure that there is moderate to abundant levels of Magnesium in the water.

For Potassium (K) as evidenced by deficiencies there is not enough in the water and this needs to be elevated also, to what level is easily answered by referring to the level of Sodium (Na) in the water which has a Mean value of 33.6ppm, plants don’t differentiate when it comes to uptaking elements and to give it a 50:50 chance of uptaking Potassium rather than Sodium I would immediately elevate the Potassium Value in the water by a minimum of 30ppm. This value is also around the 1:1 NO3:K value suggested further up the thread (K can be much higher than this without issue, I have dosed in excess of 100ppm over the week in the past before deciding on more nuanced remineralisation that reduces this closer to the 1:1 ratio).

For Phosphate levels again they haven’t been measured but the BGS document above states over 95% UK water is moderated to around 1ppm of PO4 to protect against erosion in the water distribution network particularly if there is Lead (Pb) present. You can test for the levels if you wish but it will be uptaken by plants fairly quickly or be precipitated out by the interaction of added Iron (Fe) from the Traces, either way you can choose to dose an amount so there is at least always some present and not allowed to bottom out to zero leading to halting plant growth.

For all the other Micro trace elements (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, Ni, B, Mo) that are present in the water at all levels then the addition of the standard dose of APFUK Micro Trace Elements is non problematical. You will come nowhere near close to any toxicity issues (Magnitudes above the levels  you will see), don’t skimp the dose, dose as per recommended to tank size.

If I were to have one problem with the Trace elements then that would be that the EDTA (the chelate) compound for Iron will very likely be unstable and have a short half life due to the pH of the tank which will be around neutral to above neutral pH most of the time (discounting addition of CO2 during the photoperiod, also the other elements are good up to a pH of around 9)). You would be better served by supplementing the dose of Iron to an amount by using a longer period half life chelate for use at higher pH such as DTPA or EDDHA. Alternatively you could do the opposite and use a chelate that is very short lived but long enough lived to give the plants what they need that day such as Ferrous Gluconate (I personally use a mix with Fe Gluconate and FeDTPA in water around KH/GH 8-10 that spends all day above neutral pH (including CO2 injection to 30ppm). The FeGluconate source I use is Microbe-Lift Plants Fe (available from Maidenhead Aquatics).

Before we get on to the numbers I’m going to make some suggestions as to how you dose all the missing major macro elements. If your tank was my tank I would be adding the dose for the Magnesium and Potassium in one go at water change every week from a dry salt. Initially I would add the whole dose for the total volume for the tank to raise Magnesium and Potassium to the required ppm levels, then at every 50% water change add half the same doses again to replace what is removed. In essence what you are doing here going forward is remineralising the water to make it more complete and suitable for plant growth without deficiency.

I know you want it dosed as a liquid but there is such a deficit with Mg and K to begin with that it would be impractical doing it as a concentrated liquid (10L dosing container maybe, 1L maybe not), besides starting from a base value any extra small addition of K or Mg via supplemental dosing to remediate plant uptake will reduce the likelihood of accumulation of these elements or of a dosing accident adding a catastrophic amount of Mg raising hardness to a point that it will be problematical for all sorts of reasons. Doing it this way means that your water hardness will remain fairly consistent from week to week.

You’re Macro dosing liquid may contain levels of Magnesium and Potassium (via Magnesium Sulphate, Potassium Phosphate and Potassium Nitrate (dosed depending on levels of Nitrate from fish waste from feeding)) that will provide an amount of extra nutrition that may or may not be sufficient to account for plant uptake (depends on how heavy the planting is, how bright the lights, how much CO2 , etc etc etc).

Now to the numbers, I’m going to use 300L as the total tank volume assuming that any hardscape and substrate you have in the tank will be displacing the water volume in the filter (30L).

Water Change Remineralisation Dose -

Magnesium (Mg) - This is the only element where you can choose to have a large variation in how much you dose depending on what ratio you want in the water as I mentioned above and if you choose to supplementary dose throughout the week.

I suggest at the very minimum would be to immediately remineralise the water to a ratio of 10:1 Ca:Mg and then supplementary dose throughout the week an extra 10ppm of Mg on top to give you a total 20ppm and 5:1 ratio for Ca:Mg (not accounting for uptake). Each 10ppm addition of Magnesium Sulphate is going to raise the hardness of the water by just over 2.5dGH, the first 10ppm dose immediately then the second 2.5dGH rise from the other 10ppm spread over the rest of the week.

The Maximum I would do (what I do with my Bucephalandras) would be to remineralise each week to a ratio of 3:1 Ca:Mg and take the dGH rise immediately in one go and then not dose any supplementary Magnesium throughout the week allowing the Mg levels to fall over the week through uptake and then replaced back with every 50% water change through the addition of 50% the initial dose to keep it in line with Ca:Mg ratio, eventually through uptake the 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio may vary slightly but hopefully both are uptaken at the same time, a couple of back to back water changes before remineralising again would reset the ratios back to where you began.

Okay these calculations are for the Heptahydrate of Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) I’ve just been calling it MgSO4 so far, if you want to know what Heptahydrate and Water of Mineralisation you can go watch NileRed purify some and drink it! - 




I’m going to spare you the calculations and just give you the numbers rounding out the weights to whole numbers of Grams for ease. Here are the two options I’m giving you, the first should be enough the second is rich!


To raise the concentration of Mg (Magnesium) in 300L of water to 11.18ppm (near 10:1 Ca:Mg) add 34g of MgSO4 to the tank. This adds 2.58 dGH and 14.74ppm Sulphur (S) to the water. Supplemental dosing of Mg above this value works out at 3g per 1ppm of Mg  added to 300L of water (0.23 dGH and 1.3 S)


To raise the concentration of Mg (Magnesium) in 300L of water to 33.53ppm (near 3:1 Ca:Mg) add 102g of MgSO4 to the tank. This adds around 7.74 dGH and 44.23ppm S to the water. (No supplemental dosing through the week)

Potassium (K) - No special considerations other than to match or exceed the water Sodium (Na) level.

To raise the concentration of K (Potassium) in 300L of water to 34.96ppm (near 1:1 Mean Na:K ratio) add 20g KCl (Potassium Chloride) to the tank. This adds 31.7ppm Cl (Chloride) to the water.

Remember this is an initial dose to raise levels, every water change you will need to replace these minerals at a rate of 10% weight for every 10% of 300L in water changes.


EI Alternate dosing strategy -

Now that you have remineralised the water to a greater degree you now need to add the Macro dosing for Phosphates along with any supplemental dosing for Magnesium (Minimal Mg route No1 above only) and any extra Nitrate (to be decided by yourself as to how heavy fish stocking and feeding is replacing NO3 uptaken by plants from the initial pulse at each water change, loss of greening and pale leaves would be the symptom of deficit, quick greening would be a positive indicator for this on addition of more NO3).

Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) - To raise the concentration of PO4 (Phosphate) in 300L of water by 1ppm requires 0.43 of KH2PO4 (dosed 3x per week satisfies the conditions for min to max recommended EI level 1-3ppm per week) it will also add 0.41ppm K (Potassium) per dose. 3ppm PO4 per week over 3 doses would be 1.29g per week also adding 1.23ppm K (Potassium).

Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O) - To raise the concentration of Mg (Magnesium) in 300L of water per 1ppm of Mg added requires around 3g MgSO4.7H2O. This adds 0.23 dGH and 1.3ppm S (Sulphur) to the water. To raise Mg in the water by around 10ppm overall in the week (dosed 3x per week) requires 31g MgSO4.7H2O (Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate). This adds 2.35 dGH and 13.44 ppm S (Sulphur) to the water.

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) - To raise the concentration of Nitrate (NO3) in 300L of water by 1ppm requires 0.5g KNO3 (Potassium Nitrate) to be added. This will add 0.23ppm N (Nitrogen) and 0.64ppm K (Potassium) to the water. For every extra ppm of NO3 required multiply the dose above accordingly. You will be dosing this to account for uptake of Potassium (K) and Nitrate (NO3). How much uptake there is depends on how well the plants are doing and how fed the fish are (if there’s any). I would probably add 10ppm overall over the week and adjust if need be, so that would be dosing 5g per 300L for 10ppm NO3 (Nitrate) and 6.4ppm K (Potassium) over 3 doses.

Okay we now need to bottle all the Macro into a concentrate that you can dose 3x per week as per EI (Estimative Index via Alternate Dosing) using the values described above. To prevent any issues with the salts precipitating in the dosing/storage container it is wise not to make a super saturate solution, Magnesium (Mg) may not play nice with the Phosphate (PO4) if it is in the mixture and possibly precipitate out. In order to prevent this the size of the dose you will be adding to the tank should be at least a minimum of 60ml per dose (20ml per 100L), 100ml would be better (providing it’s within limits for daily volume replacement for evaporation of water from your 300L tank).

Using a 5L storage vessel and using a 100ml per dose strategy will give you a 50 dose (around 4 months) supply of Macro. Enough time for it not to be annoying having to make liquid feeds all the time and short enough that it doesn’t go off in the bottle, going 30ml per dose will decrease the size of the storage vessel needed but increased chance of precipitation if you don’t take steps to try to prevent this by acidifying the solution first with Ascorbic/Citric acid.

The conditions for the possible formation of phosphate precipitates usually happen in an above neutral pH, in this mix it could potentially be a derivative of Potassium Magnesium Phosphate and Magnesium Ammonia Phosphate if the Potassium Nitrate has any Ammoniacal contamination. The solution I suggest for 100ml dosing contains a 1mM (millimolar) solution of Phosphate (PO4) if my math is correct, to have the potential for the above precipitates when mixing the conditions I have seen documented are [K > PO4 (3mM) pH>7], the mixture for your tank volume and a more concentrated 30ml per dose (10ml/100L) I believe exceeds the K>PO4(3mM) condition, the only caveat to this statement is that I’m unsure if these precipitation reactions happen when the Magnesium Sulphate is below its saturation point (suggested mix is at a concentration of 1/10th of Magnesium Sulphates solubility for saturation), however when mixing fertilisers in a bottle there is the possibility that all these conditions could be met briefly to some degree along the interface between these compounds meeting in solution depending on the concentration (all salts added to the storage container before the addition of water meet and exceed this criteria at initial mixing until there is enough dilution to stop any reaction). To mitigate the chances of this happening it would be best practice to ensure the Phosphate concentration when fully dissolved in the Bottling water is below 3mM before the addition of the other elements. For a mixture with the greatest stability I would suggest the order of adding the elements to the receiving water (slightly acidified and ensuring full dissolution before adding the next element) to be -


Potassium Phosphate - (Solubility 22g/100ml)
Magnesium Sulphate - (Solubility 113g/100ml)
Potassium Nitrate - (Solubility 35.7g/100ml)

The weight of salts required to add to 5L of RO water for 100ml per dose to a 300L tank and their resultant concentration increase in parts per million ppm (1ppm = 1mg/L) to the tank total volume per dose is as follows -

21.5g KH2PO4
Per 100ml dose - [PO4 = 1ppm] [K = 0.41ppm]

506g MgSO4.7H2O
Per 100ml dose - [Mg = 3.33ppm] [SO4 = 13.17ppm] [dGH = 0.77]

81.5g KNO3
Per 100ml dose - [NO3 = 3.33ppm] [K = 2.10ppm]

Per week total addition (3 doses) =

PO4 = 3ppm
Mg = 9.99ppm
NO3 = 9.99ppm
K = 7.53ppm
SO4 = 39.51ppm
dGH = 2.31

For the option to acidify the receiving water before any addition of salts I would say 1g of Citric/Ascorbic Acid to 5L should be sufficient to keep the pH well below neutral.

That’s you Macro Solution taken care of.

I shall repeat some of what I said above for the the Trace elements and your Micro Solution for ease of dosing, follow the instructions provided by APFUK for making this with their Chelated Trace dry salt. Because of the hardness of your water and the likleyhood of an above neutral pH the majority of the time then the Iron will unbind with the EDTA chelate and over time precipitate out of solution with anything it can bind with, be that an oxide, phosphate or carbonate. The plants will tell you if they are deficient in iron by having pale/white new growth, if you experience this then you will need to compensate by adding Iron bound to a different Chelate that works in a higher pH such as DTPA or EDDHA as mentioned above or dose more of a shorter lived chelate that is more organically bound, highly plant available such as Ferrous Gluconate (Iron Sugar), you can get this most easily as a liquid supplement in the form of Microbe-Lift Plants Fe or alternatively Seachem Flourish Iron, I’ve not yet found an easier suitable source for the reduced cost DIY approach to Iron dosing, I believe there is Humic Acid in the Microbe-Lift solution which also acts as a chelate and as it is a long chain carbon molecule the plants get extra bioavailable carbon along with their Iron which isn’t a bad thing, I have never tried Seachem Flourish Iron (Ferrous Gluconate) other than when used as Flourish Comprehensive, it may also possibly have a Humic Acid content but I can’t be certain, someone else will need to post a description of the appearance of the liquid for me to determine this to save me throwing cash away on a bottle.

Hopefully all this information is of benefit and not just one extra long word salad.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


X3NiTH said:


> Hopefully all this information is of benefit and not just one extra long word salad.


No, that is definitely a proper answer, it must have taken you a while. I'm now expecting the rest of the forum to raise their game to at least this level.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

X3NiTH said:


> Hopefully all this information is of benefit and not just one extra long word salad.



'The Half Blooded Prince' detailed report - excellent work - bookmarked and saved 
Think X3NiTH has just rinsed the bar for detail 🥰


----------



## Witcher

@X3NiTH  This is excellent write up and should be extracted and sticked at the top of Aquarium Fert Dosing.


----------



## X3NiTH

dw1305 said:


> it must have taken you a while


Yup sure did! One third of a dissertation off the cuff over many hours the last couple of weeks! Would have made it look a little less cluttered in places but every time I tried to go back in last night after posting and tidy it up a little with extra line spacing here and there it would jump paragraphs past where I wanted to edit so left it as is just in case it deleted some of the body text by accident and I don’t notice!



Zeus. said:


> 'The Half Blooded Prince' detailed report - excellent work - bookmarked and saved



Yeah crush the Sopophorous Bean don’t cut it, you get more juice that way!


----------



## EA James

X3NiTH said:


> Yup sure did! One third of a dissertation off the cuff over many hours the last couple of weeks! Would have made it look a little less cluttered in places but every time I tried to go back in last night after posting and tidy it up a little with extra line spacing here and there it would jump paragraphs past where I wanted to edit so left it as is just in case it deleted some of the body text by accident and I don’t notice!


You sir are a legend! I can't thank you enough. I know you've had a lot going on too but you've still taken the time to detail all this for me, I appreciate that a lot 👍
I think I've read through this all about 6 times now so hopefully soon my brain will start the uptake of nutrients...sorry i mean knowledge!! Very much looking forward to getting this sorted in the next few days but be prepared for more questions! 
Thanks again Darren 🙂


----------



## EA James

Morning all, 
Just going through the thread again and making a check list. I'm short on Magnesium sulfate so need to put an order in. 


X3NiTH said:


> For the option to acidify the receiving water before any addition of salts I would say 1g of Citric/Ascorbic Acid


I'm going to order from Aqua plants care as there service on last order was great. On there site they recommend to use E202 with E300, should I order this too? And if so how much do I add to the mix? 1g??

I told you they'd be questions 😆

Cheers


----------



## Hufsa

EA James said:


> E202 with E300, should I order this too? And if so how much do I add to the mix? 1g??


Yes you should order that too.
I believe the instructions and ratios on that site is correct for E300 and E202.

0.5g of E300 for every 500ml of solution protects against growth of bacteria and lowers solution’s ph protecting against disintegration of compounds.
0.2g of E202 for every 500ml of solution impedes the growth of mildew and fungus.

So for 1000 ml (1 liter), 1g of E300 and 0.4g of E202


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


EA James said:


> On there site they recommend to use E202 with E300, should I order this too?


Yes <"they go together">. <"E202" is potassium sorbate"> and E300 "Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)". I see that @Hufsa has posted this while I've been typing.

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

Morning all, 
I’m in the middle of a WC and am about to start of the above advice. I’ve never put dry salts directly into the tank so I’d like some help please! 
Is there a certain way of doing it or do I literally just sprinkle them into the tank? 
I need to add 34g of magnesium sulfate and 20g of potassium chloride, shall I wait until the tank is full and sprinkle them into the filter flow?
Thanks in advance


----------



## EA James

I’ve just sprinkled some of the magnesium but it doesn’t seem to dissolve in the water. The crystals look quite big, shall I continue? Quite a few of the crystals are just sat on my Anubias leaves and the fish are trying to eat them!
I haven’t tried the Potassium yet but that looks super fine so I’m guessing that’ll be ok?


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH are you about?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


EA James said:


> I’ve just sprinkled some of the magnesium but it doesn’t seem to dissolve in the water. The crystals look quite big, shall I continue?


They will take a while to dissolve, as you suggest it is size issue and means you have a much greater volume to surface area ratio than you would with a smaller crystal. It won't stop them dissolving, they will just take longer.

Volume is a cubic ^3 measurement, so a slightly bigger crystal takes a lot longer to dissolve. If you assume each crystal is a cube then the volume of a cube with linear length of one unit is  1 * 1 * 1 = 1, but linear length of two units is 2 * 2 * 2 = 8 etc.

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

Ok panic over! Just seemed odd adding it like that, especially when the fish were trying to eat them. I did watch a few of the crystals and after about 10 seconds they’d dissolved so I feel at ease now
Thanks again @dw1305


----------



## X3NiTH

You could have taken a cup of water from the aquarium and pre dissolved the salts beforehand but adding directly dry as you have done is not a problem, only issue as you saw were just a few confused fish thinking it was dinner time!


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH i thought about that, but after I’d added them to the tank...helpful right haha!!
I’ve mixed up the macro solution and I’m doing the micro when I get home from the school run then start the dosing tomorrow 😁


----------



## EA James

One more thing @X3NiTH -
I have another 5L container filled with RO, I know I’m following the stock mixing solution and dosing from APFUK for the trace elements but will it be ok to mix up 5L of it?
I’ll be dosing 60ml of trace so that’s gonna last quite a bit longer than the predicted 4 months of 100ml macro dose so would that be too long for it sitting in the bottle?
I can mix up 1L at a time it doesn’t bother me but thought as the 5L is sitting there should I use it all?!
Cheers


----------



## X3NiTH

You can do, make sure you acidify (Ascorbic Acid) and add preservative (Potassium Sorbate) to help prevent mould formation, store in cool conditions, from experience refrigerating the mixture will keep it indefinitely from going off, I do this with my trace and decant into the dosing container when needed (which does grow mould after a couple of months, I ignore it unless it’s blocking the dosing lines).


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH ok that’s great, glad I asked as I didn’t think about adding the E300 and E202 either.
The 5L container will be stored in a kitchen cupboard that’s always a bit on the cold side so that’ll be fine. 
Thanks again Darren, you’ve made me a happy man 😊


----------



## EA James

One more thing (again!)......
Is there any advantage to dose macro or micro tomorrow or doesn’t it matter? For some reason I’m guessing micro first?
And I used to dose when the lights just come on (16:00) but now with doing school runs that’ll probably be difficult, can I dose before lights on or is it better after?
Sorry about all the questions!


----------



## rebel

EA James said:


> Is there any advantage to dose macro or micro tomorrow or doesn’t it matter? For some reason I’m guessing micro first?


Macro is more important so that should be first.


----------



## X3NiTH

Seeing as this is the start of new dosing just dose in whatever alternating order you like, personally I’d add the Micro first before lights on to give the plants a better chance to uptake some Iron before light starts breaking down the chelate (it’s photosensitive). Any Nitrate in the Macro won’t be uptaken until photosynthesis starts anyway so dose that just before lights on or just after. As long as there’s enough of both sets of nutrients remaining in the water column day to day then which order you dose shouldn’t matter, they both just need separated by time to prevent reactions with phosphate and iron when dosed close together.


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH ok understood, thank you 😊


----------



## EA James

Hi all, 
I’d like some help again (surprise surprise!) 
Today is WC day but I’m not sure on the figures for the remineralisation. 
Initially it was 34g of mg and 20g of KCI but then on WC day it’s 10% weight for every 10% of 300L in water changes. This confuses me!
Does that mean it’s 10% of KCI 20g is 2g to 10% of 150L (50% WC) 
Does that make sense as it still doesn’t to me 🤦🏻‍♂️😂
Can I just half the original dose as that was for tank volume now this is for 50% of it?! 
I have messaged the boss aka @X3NiTH but it was late last night so if anyone could help that’d be great!
Thanks again in advance


----------



## X3NiTH

I hate maths too! You only need half the weight to remineralise for a 50% waterchange!


----------



## EA James

X3NiTH said:


> Remember this is an initial dose to raise levels, every water change you will need to replace these minerals at a rate of 10% weight for every 10% of 300L in water changes.


This is what confused me! Honestly my brain has issues 🤣



X3NiTH said:


> I hate maths too


But you can do it!, I hate maths and cant do it haha


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


EA James said:


> but I’m not sure on the figures for the remineralisation.





EA James said:


> I hate maths and cant do it haha


There is a way of avoiding the maths. I'd just use a conductivity meter, find a range of  approx. +/- 25 microS, where your fish and plants are happy, and then use that rather than adding a set amount of salts. I aim for 80 - 120 microS in the tanks using rain-water and a dash of tap, very occasionally I add some DI water in the summer when the conductivity of the rain-water is higher.

There is nothing magic about that range, it is just a level that I can maintain using ~95% rain-water for water changes.

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

Thanks @dw1305 but I don’t know anything about conductivity meters and wouldn’t know where to begin with catching/storing/using rain water to make it safe for my tank.


----------



## dw1305

H all, 


EA James said:


> Thanks @dw1305 but I don’t know anything about conductivity meters


It doesn't have to be rain-water, you can use the same approach for RO or tap, you just have a <"different initial datum range">. 

Conductivity meters are really useful, because conductivity <"is a linear scale"> from pure H2O at 0 microS up to seawater at  ~53000 microS (53 milliS). It isn't a direct conversion, but if you buffer RO water to about 4 dGH/4dKH the conductivity raises to ~ 100 microS.  

Our tap supply is from a <"deep limestone aquifer"> and low in nutrients, so I know that nearly all the ions that contribute to the conductivity are bicarbonate (HCO3-) and calcium  ions (Ca++)


EA James said:


> ....... and wouldn’t know where to begin with catching/storing/using rain water to make it safe for my tank.


Connect a <"water diverter to the gutter down pipe"> connected to a  water butt, <"add some Daphnia"> to the water butt to act as an Canary, and you have a  free source of soft water that doesn't contain chlorine etc. 

I'm <"pretty risk adverse and I've used rainwater since the 1970's">, so I think the risks of using it are over-stated.  It is particularly <"useful in the winter">. A lot of serious <"aquarists use rainwater">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## EA James

Hi all,

I'm about 3 weeks into the new regime and so far so good. The only thing I've noticed is now i seem to be getting a bit of green spot algae on the front of the glass and a slight green tinge over some of the rocks. Also the very bottom of the glass under the sand seems to be getting a dirty look to it, this gets scraped off weekly on WC day so it's not an issue it's just a difference since adding the new ferts.
All the plants appear to be doing well though apart from my H.Pinnatifida which seems to have quite a bit of melt and its lost a lot of leaves but this has only been in the tank a couple of months so perhaps its something else.

Is there anything i should be altering or is it a bit too soon? 

Cheers


----------



## EA James

Here’s a full tank shot taken yesterday, for reference and because I think it looks awesome! 
Thinking about ditching the ring and letting the floaters loose as it looks like I have a UFO in the tank!
This is my first ‘proper’ tank and scape so I’m feeling quite proud of it 😁


----------



## mrhoyo

EA James said:


> View attachment 159304
> Here’s a full tank shot taken yesterday, for reference and because I think it looks awesome!
> Thinking about ditching the ring and letting the floaters loose as it looks like I have a UFO in the tank!
> This is my first ‘proper’ tank and scape so I’m feeling quite proud of it 😁


That's very similar to what I want eventually, even down to the cherry barbs. Looks great!


----------



## EA James

mrhoyo said:


> That's very similar to what I want eventually, even down to the cherry barbs. Looks great!


Haha really?? 
I'm still a novice and have no luck with stem plants so thought a scape like this would better suit me. 
Good luck with yours 👍


----------



## X3NiTH

EA James said:


> Is there anything i should be altering or is it a bit too soon?



I wouldn’t alter anything yet, patience, get used to what you’re doing now and keep observing. I would only change things if a nutrition problem becomes observably widespread, if isolated to one plant only having an issue then I would give it more time to adjust.

Looking good!


----------



## EA James

@X3NiTH Yeah ok thats what i thought. I wanted to mention it though just in case i left it too late and then it would be a pain to rectify. I'll keep you updated with progress or problems!



X3NiTH said:


> Looking good!


 Thank you


----------



## EA James

@Ady34 Thanks for the comments on Instagram, Here's the thread in all it's glorious detail if you're interested?! 

It was seeing your tank on Facebook a while ago and the Geordie scapers Juwel 240's first scape that gave me inspiration to do mine like this. Your EA 1500 is still one of my favourite scapes, i love it! I remember first seeing it on facebook probably over a year ago now and thinking that's exactly what i want. Beautiful work mate 😍

Cheers, James


----------



## Ady34

EA James said:


> @Ady34 Thanks for the comments on Instagram, Here's the thread in all it's glorious detail if you're interested?!
> 
> It was seeing your tank on Facebook a while ago and the Geordie scapers Juwel 240's first scape that gave me inspiration to do mine like this. Your EA 1500 is still one of my favourite scapes, i love it! I remember first seeing it on facebook probably over a year ago now and thinking that's exactly what i want. Beautiful work mate 😍
> 
> Cheers, James


Just read the thread, some great forum member advice and help and I’m pleased it has had a positive impact on your tank which is looking great. Far more knowledgeable people than me, I just keep adding more standard mixed EI recipie until the plants are happy 
Thanks also for the positive comments about the 1500, always happy to hear that it has inspired someone 
Cheerio, and enjoy the tank.


----------



## EA James

Evening all,

So it's been 4 months to the day since I've been dosing the new mix and this is what's left from 5L




 


X3NiTH said:


> Using a 5L storage vessel and using a 100ml per dose strategy will give you a 50 dose (around 4 months) supply of Macro.


Pretty much spot on there mate 😎

I need to mix up another batch early next week but before i do i thought I'd post some images from few of the plants that i think might be slightly suffering from a deficiency. If there is something i should alter then obviously I'd rather do it now than wait another 4 months! 

Generally the tank is doing great in my opinion, Plants are growing well and quite quickly considering nothing in the tank is a fast grower. Anubias (i think sp. Barteri?) has produced some monster leaves and a big old flower that looks like corn on the cob haha! New leaves are coming through about once a week or so that dwarf the old growth. I feel like the tank has a good balance at the moment. Not really any signs of algae apart from a few green spots on the glass, probably 6-8 per week. 

Here's a few shots of the tank i took last night 



 

 



Since the original post i have added quite a few more plants (Still want/need more though!!) and about 3 weeks ago i rescaped the right hand side of the scape. I've added another 8kg of black lava rock and removed the Giant Vallis and Cyperus Helferi as i wanted it to look more like an island which i think I've achieved. I think it looks a lot better ☺️





The next few pics are of the plants i think are showing signs of deficiencies




 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Not sure if I'll need to input any more details of the tank set up for a diagnosis or not but if so I'm happy to do so. 

Looking forward to getting these minor issues sorted and I'm hoping you all like the progress of my little slice of nature! 

Thanks all 😊


----------



## X3NiTH

If anything it looks like more Carbon is required, you should be covering all nutrition via the EI dosing anyway so deficiency is probably unlikely, if you can’t turn co2 up any higher I would start adding a Carbon supplement, Microbe-Lift Bio CO2 from MA is Humic and Fulvic acid based so can also beneficially Chelate nutrients, my Buce like it, there’s also Easy Carbo and Excell but I believe both these are variants of Gluteraldehyde and as such I would deem them both as not as safe to handle.

You can see that it’s mainly the lower light tolerating plants that are struggling the most, I wouldn’t change the mix just yet I would experiment with adding more carbon first.


----------



## EA James

currently eating a bacon and egg sarnie with a very srtong JD in hand after a night seeong my family again! Yhanks amn, will speak tomorrow x


----------



## EA James

EA James said:


> currently eating a bacon and egg sarnie with a very srtong JD in hand after a night seeong my family again! Yhanks amn, will speak tomorrow x


Ohhh dear 🤦‍♂️ Definitely got carried away last night haha, feeling it today too!




X3NiTH said:


> If anything it looks like more Carbon is required


I've noticed recently the drop checkers seem quite a dark green at lights on and when the co2 turns off they're still not light enough IMO, I've changed the timer so it comes on half an hour earlier now so 2 hours before lights on. I'll see if that makes any difference. There might be something wrong though as in the last week when the co2 is on there's a funny noise coming from the tank, like a squeaking noise that repeats itself over and over. It sounds like its coming from the tubing and is louder at the back of the tank, not in the cabinet though so i dont think its the reg, strange!

I'm going to my local MA tomorrow to get some RO for the mix so I'll pick up some Microbe while I'm there

Would you say the drop checkers are positioned well enough to give me a good reading?

Cheers Darren, you've been such a good help 😊


----------



## X3NiTH

Squeaky noise could be a intermittent partial gas leak in the line, I’d investigate that further. You don’t want the Drop Checker heading for Blue-Green try keeping it in the Green if you can, positioning looks ok it’s at the same level as the majority of the plant growth, if in doubt move it about! More growth = more co2 uptake so the fast growers may be pulling in decent amounts of it reducing the co2 profile in the tank overall.


----------



## EA James

Ok I'll look into it, the noise has now stopped but I'll keep an ear out. Everything is fitted correctly and nice and tight so I'm not even sure where to start if it comes back! 
The drop checker is green but not lime green, I also have one at the back near the outlet as i wanted to see if the co2 would make a full lap of the tank. That one appears to be green to but slightly darker which i would expect being in its location anyway. 
I bought some of the Microbe Bio today, Would you suggest i follow the instructions on the bottle? I dosed 30ml today as per instructions (initial dose 10ml per 100L) it then says 2ml per 100L every 1-2 days. Would i be best going for every other day to start off with? 
I didn't expect it to be like thinish syrup, thought I'd done something wrong when i poured it in the tank 

Cheers


----------



## EA James

Here’s the tank in full lemonade mode and the DC as it stands now


----------



## X3NiTH

The DC colour is where it should be!

I overdose-dose the BioCO2 three times a week at 6ml/50L (1ml/minute dosing pump running for six minutes). When I make up my Macro I use the neat BioCO2 instead of water as the receiving fluid in the mixture which saves me needing another dosing pump. You can start the dosing at the recommended levels and if you need/want to increase the dose it’s safe to do so.


----------



## EA James

X3NiTH said:


> The DC colour is where it should be!


 great! I thought it was too dark, that's good then.



X3NiTH said:


> You can start the dosing at the recommended levels and if you need/want to increase the dose it’s safe to do so.


Ok perfect, will do mate 

Thanks again, Top man 👍


----------



## Wookii

X3NiTH said:


> The DC colour is where it should be!
> 
> I overdose-dose the BioCO2 three times a week at 6ml/50L (1ml/minute dosing pump running for six minutes). When I make up my Macro I use the neat BioCO2 instead of water as the receiving fluid in the mixture which saves me needing another dosing pump. You can start the dosing at the recommended levels and if you need/want to increase the dose it’s safe to do so.



@X3NiTH how do you get along dosing the Microbelift BioCO2 with an autodoser? I added a bottle to my recent Macro mix, and the stuff separates with a heavier part of the solution settling to a sediment on the bottom. I've had to resort to a magnetic stirrer running for 10 minutes before the doser comes on.


----------



## X3NiTH

This is what my dosing bag looks like with a very bright led inspection torch, as you can see the liquid is uniform and very opaque, I haven’t seen any separation! I use this neat with dry salts added before putting it in the bag.














The 4 images show me moving the light down behind the mixture, I can’t determine if there is separation but it certainly looks like there isn’t and it’s not something I’ve noticed before.

The only thing I can think what’s going on is that it could be Magnesium Sulphate in the mixture (I haven’t added this to the bag mix so I may have missed an effect seen by you by not adding it) and possibly a great portion of that has been chelated by the Humic and as such has gained significant mass to drop it out of suspension. What you can also see with my setup is that it is gravity fed to the dosing line so if there are any sediment it gets flushed out the lines pretty quickly apparently without blocking it, only mold kombucha blocks my micro lines after a while.


----------

