# Fish sick or injured?



## SandstoneSturgeon (21 Jul 2016)

Terrible video quality, but can someone identify what's wrong with this Buenos Aires tetra?

Specs are 210 liter tank
filter is API filstar 400gph
Lighting is fluval led 48w 600 led full spectrum bar

Plants 1 anubias 2 Argentine swords, java fern on lava rock
hardscape is a piece of desert sage branch stripped and soaked prior for 4weeks

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/579046b74a630/VID_20160720_214841.mp4


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Fish are: 8 Giant Danios
9 Glowlight Tetras
5 Buenos Aires Tetras
7 Emerald Corys

This is a well established tank that has been in operation for almost two years.  All fish in here have been in there for at least 3 months (Buenos Aires Tetras are the newest) ranging up to 2 years for the Glowlights and Giants.  The white spot behind the dorsal fin and the the way the tail and tail fin slump downward seem to suggest that this fish is sick?  Diseases and treatments would be greatly appreciated.


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## SandstoneSturgeon (21 Jul 2016)

Did that video even load?  All I have is the audio of the TV in the background.


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## alto (21 Jul 2016)

No idea on the video but fish is obviously not "normal" - that curvature could be disease related (advanced stage of a chronic disease such as "fish TB" - example only - not suggesting cause in this instance) or fry trauma or birth defect (it seems "_in vogue_" for breeders & farms to no longer bother with culling practises ... it's much more common to see malformed fish coming out of certain farms).

Is fish active & eating as normal?


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## SandstoneSturgeon (21 Jul 2016)

alto said:


> Is fish active & eating as normal?



No his behavior is notably different from his fellow Tetras.  He can't keep up with them and can barely even swim in a straight line. It seems like he struggles to keep himself upright.  I wish the pic cam in clearer but the white patch on the top of his tail fin/dorsal fin area is not fuzzy but has a dull silver hue and almost looks like it is eating into his body!


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## alto (21 Jul 2016)

SandstoneSturgeon said:


> can barely even swim in a straight line. It seems like he struggles to keep himself upright



At this point I'd euthanize then 

- at least I always say this, I recently managed to find a group of chocolate gouramis & despite them looking the worse for transport etc (too thin, body lesions, pinched tails, hovering rather than swimming), bought several ... they/re doing pretty much as expected ie not great  - at least they're eating & looking slightly less miserable in my planted tank
I've been watching a couple since purchase, knowing that I really should euthanize ... I finally removed the worst last night (I had 3 in my container but returned 2 to the tank at their insistence ) 

If your fish were goldfish sized, it might be possible to take him to a vet for injections (though I suspect most would still consider his condition to be too far advanced for good prognosis)
You can try placing him in a Breeder Net (soft sides, good water flow) or isolate to a hospital tank but this is always stressful to any shoaling fish, & with fish stress=weakened immune system
Sometimes ill fish seem to appreciate the Breeder Net, it supports them in an area of good oxygenation & prevents other fish harassment, add a good amount of plant material for cover

While you have any illness in the tank, it's recommended to do daily water changes.  



SandstoneSturgeon said:


> almost looks like it is eating into his body!


It's possible he suffered some surface lesion (scrape, even netting & gentle handling causes scale damage) that has never healed & the tissue beneath has atrophied.


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## SandstoneSturgeon (21 Jul 2016)

alto said:


> At this point I'd euthanize then
> 
> - at least I always say this, I recently managed to find a group of chocolate gouramis & despite them looking the worse for transport etc (too thin, body lesions, pinched tails, hovering rather than swimming), bought several ... they/re doing pretty much as expected ie not great  - at least they're eating & looking slightly less miserable in my planted tank
> I've been watching a couple since purchase, knowing that I really should euthanize ... I finally removed the worst last night (I had 3 in my container but returned 2 to the tank at their insistence )
> ...



I've never euthanized anything. How do you even do that to a fish in a humane way? 

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## alto (21 Jul 2016)

Nathan Hill wrote this article for PFK

A search for "fish euthanasia" will generate lots of reading options, you can also read veterinary guidelines.

One of those chocolate gouramis that I didn't collect last night, is ready today ... he's nose down in the 'Monte Carlo' & no longer displays any awareness of anything around him, I'll net & remove him to the small 1 liter container & ...
Maybe the least stressful option is to just allow him to die naturally in the tank, I don't know ... but from a disease perspective, it's best to remove ill fish before death (& all pathogens decamp for alternate hotels)


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## zozo (22 Jul 2016)

I relative painless death seems to be shutting it's system down slowly by cooling it.. I've red in some articles where someone adviced to take it out in a jar with some tank water and put this in the refridgerator or freezer, the water will slowely drop in temperatur and the fish will slowely shut it's system down go dormant and finaly die. 

Now advising how to kill something is always a controvers.. But in a way this way made the most sence to me.. Now we just can't know how it works for a fish, but if we look at people for example mountain climbers dying on a mountain slope in high altitudes from hyperthermia. Regarding the lucky ones comming very close to that death or witnessed other dying it.. It seems to be a rather pleasant one, even feeling warm and pass away with happy delusional thoughts on their minds. Some even feel so warm they take of their cloths a few munites before they perrish..


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## dw1305 (22 Jul 2016)

Hi all,





SandstoneSturgeon said:


> I've never euthanized anything. How do you even do that to a fish in a humane way?


Not a job I ever like doing, but <"clove oil"> works pretty well. 

You can get a small bottle from a pharmacist (they sell it to tooth-ache sufferers).

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (22 Jul 2016)

*



			Inhumane methods
		
Click to expand...

*


> placing in the freezer..



Well what do ya know.. As far a death is Humane or inhumane? I guess in fact none.. Tho mountenairs claim hyperthermia is a rather pleasent way to die regarding physical discomfort i guess, it seems to be inhumane for fish. Sorry for that one..


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## SandstoneSturgeon (22 Jul 2016)

dw1305 said:


> You can get a small bottle from a pharmacist (they sell it to tooth-ache sufferers).



On my way to the pharmacy for the oil right now.  I called and they have it.


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## SandstoneSturgeon (22 Jul 2016)

zozo said:


> Well what do ya know.. As far a death is Humane or inhumane? I guess in fact none.. Tho mountenairs claim hyperthermia is a rather pleasent way to die regarding physical discomfort i guess, it seems to be inhumane for fish. Sorry for that one..


Yeah I read that article.  I guess you can put into a slurry that is already at 2C and they'll enter a dormant state before respiratory systems fail entirely. No worries, though. Thanks for the help. 

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## SandstoneSturgeon (22 Jul 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Not a job I ever like doing, but <"clove oil"> works pretty well.
> 
> You can get a small bottle from a pharmacist (they sell it to tooth-ache sufferers).
> 
> cheers Darrel


Well it's done.  I am not looking forward to the next time I have to do THAT! Amazingly, however, the clove oil is quite peaceful. In the tank he was twitching and thrashing around violently. When I put him in the solution, he calmly swam around once and then just stopped moving.

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## zozo (23 Jul 2016)

dw1305 said:


> You can get a small bottle from a pharmacist (they sell it to tooth-ache sufferers).



Kinda makes my think of the movie The Marathon man, there was a scene, lets call it the dental scene, i saw this as a kid but never forgot that one. I guess it featured a little botttle of clove oil. I will defenitely ask that the next time i'll be there to buy peroxide..


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## SandstoneSturgeon (23 Jul 2016)

zozo said:


> I will defenitely ask that the next time i'll be there to buy peroxide..



Yeah, It seems like a good thing to have on standby.  The next most humane suggestion to anesthetic overdose was blunt trauma to the head (i.e. literally smashing the poor things with a large hammer!).   As effective as that might sound, I just don't know if I have the stomach for that, not to mention good enough aim.


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## zozo (23 Jul 2016)

SandstoneSturgeon said:


> Yeah, It seems like a good thing to have on standby.  The next most humane suggestion to anesthetic overdose was blunt trauma to the head (i.e. literally smashing the poor things with a large hammer!).   As effective as that might sound, I just don't know if I have the stomach for that, not to mention good enough aim.



I know what you mean, it's a strange thing.. I mean i couldn't also, to kill something in a brutal manner i cared for so long with respect. But in my fishing days catching trout for the bbq, killed them with a well aimed blow behind the eyes, which is pretty clean instand death.. But i do not see this happening with a small aquarium fish, till now i didn't have the need to, but i definitely will have some of that oil in the house in case i ever need. I guess that's the difference between pet and prey.


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