# 450L ready to launch. (First attempt)



## Choppy Nagle (14 Apr 2013)

Hello everyone,
I am in the position now where I am almost ready to start my soil based tank.
Before I procede, I have a barrage of questions to pestle you with but I don't know where to start, so appologies if it becomes an incoherent rant.

I am adding John Innes no3 mixed with some akadama and I read somewhere that the organic discharge emmitted doing initialisation would not only cycle the tank, but also be of great benefit to the plants. I don't have any plants yet so should I wait till it's planted before I add water?
Talking of planting, is it easy to plant through a soil retainer?

I'm not in any particular hurry which is just as well as I understand it can take about 6 weeks for the soil to mineralise. That's something I didn't quite understand cos I thought it was being exposed to air that mineralised the soil. Is it neccessary for my filters to be running during this period?

One other thing, I have playsand to use for capping but a lot of members advocate pool filter sand because the grain size is better for water/nutrient circulation. I'm worried about anaerobic spots collecting in the substrate so is it worthwhile ditching the playsand or will some shrimp, snails or loaches eliviate this problem?

Once again, I'm sorry for the deluge of questions but I'm just eager to get up and running.
Any advice would be most welcome and gratefully received.


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## Alastair (15 Apr 2013)

I would definitely not fill with water until your ready to plant as messing with planting in a substrate with john innes under will give you a lovely brown tank. I also found when I experimented with a substrate divider I couldn't plant as deepso didnt use it. 
RegRegarding filling you could put down the john innes with out the capping and fill just to moisten it to start off the mineralisation process whilst you wait for your plants then you can just cap then plsnt and fill.
There is nothing wrong with using the playsand although personally I think pool filter sand looks much better. I kept mts in my chocolate puddle to help stop the planting soil becoming anaerobic.  

Lastly regarding your filters, get them running as soon as the tank is full as theyll cycle off any ammonia that may leach from the soil.

Good luck


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## Choppy Nagle (15 Apr 2013)

'Lovely brown tank?'
Cocoa brown perhaps? You appear to have a woman-like obsession with chocolate.

Apart from segration, the reason for the gravel tidy is to maintain a nice sandy top for when the more destructive fish take it upon themselves to redecorate for me.
Regarding this, will Trumpet Snails etc. be able to penetrate the soil layer through the barrier?

I read your journals some time ago. They are very impressive.
Thank you for your response, it has been very helpful.


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## foxfish (15 Apr 2013)

I am not a fan of soil dividers either & I dont know if that would stop the sand from traveling down through the soil anyway?
You could fill you tank with water & then drain it down for initial planting but why not plant from the beginning.
Soil is incredibly messy when wet, so even the slightest disturbance will form a cloud of dark chocolate!
The mesh allows the plant roots to entangle making them virtually impossible to move once established.


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## sciencefiction (15 Apr 2013)

I mineralized my soil first, a bit time consuming and messy, but no chocolate juice when I setup the tank, planted and filled.


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## Choppy Nagle (16 Apr 2013)

I had hopes of getting some clown loaches, hence the soil net. I'll stick it in to start with because once it's planted I don't expect to be removing anything unless it's brown-bread.
I'll have a look online at what sort of plants I am more likely to have success with and go from there.
I suppose I'll be limited as to what to choose, having a 2' depth and no CO2.
Are there any red coloured flora that can flourish in this situation or are they generally more difficult? It would be nice to have a contrast of colour.
I really know very little about plants as you can gather, but all of your help is invaluable.
Thank you.


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## Choppy Nagle (14 Jul 2013)

Good evening, just an update... Substrate in, along with the hardscape and (most of) the equipment...



However, I have hid a bit of snag...


It would seem that the cut-outs at the rear of the tank for equipment are a little too narrow to house both installation sets.(Eheim)
So, in order to accomodate two filters, I would need to expand these somehow. Has anyone had to do this, and if so, how?
The trouble is, my tank is already full and I doubt loads of plastic shavings would be good for the fish.
Alternatively, I could just use the one filter but would that suffice for a 450L planted tank?



Incidentally, the listed turnover is 1050 Litres/hour. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
dins.


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## faizal (14 Jul 2013)

Hey Choppy,...neat first start . 1050 litre for a 450 L low tech i guess is okay but i usually go for 10 times turnover rate. Try PM- ing Alastair or Big Tom though. If I remember it correctly Big Tom initially just had a small pump for circulation purposes in his tank. How much light do you have over the tank? That's more important for a non co2.


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## Choppy Nagle (14 Jul 2013)

Thanks for the reply and the compliment. I just have the standard T5s. Possibly a little too much for a lo-tech but it is 2' deep and I'm not afraid of a bit algae.
I could use the extra filter on my other tank so it wouldn't go to waste. However, having two filters would enable me to have two in-line heaters and also have two spray bars which want cover the length of the tank.
So, I think I'll get the hacksaw out...


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## Choppy Nagle (4 Sep 2013)

So, anyway...






Voila!


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## Choppy Nagle (4 Sep 2013)

Hello everyone, I recently bought the dry fert kit from Aquariumplantfood.co.uk to supplement my soil. Before I start to administer these I have a few questions I would like to ask the experts.
At a 10% dosage, it works out at about 10ml / day (ish), and then a rest day on the Sabbath. Does that sound about right? Anyway, being lo-tech and terminally lazy, I don't plan on doing water changes that often so my question is: How often should I be doing them given this stated dosing regime.
Oh, and does adding chemicals like this affect Valis the same way that liquid carbon does. (ie. badly)
Thanks.


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## Alastair (4 Sep 2013)

Choppy Nagle said:


> Hello everyone, I recently bought the dry fert kit from Aquariumplantfood.co.uk to supplement my soil. Before I start to administer these I have a few questions I would like to ask the experts.
> At a 10% dosage, it works out at about 10ml / day (ish), and then a rest day on the Sabbath. Does that sound about right? Anyway, being lo-tech and terminally lazy, I don't plan on doing water changes that often so my question is: How often should I be doing them given this stated dosing regime.
> Oh, and does adding chemicals like this affect Valis the same way that liquid carbon does. (ie. badly)
> Thanks.



Hi, in a low tech with minimal water changes you could get away with a water change every two weeks and dose just a few days a week rather than 6. 
I used to do hardly any water changes in my other set up with no ill effects but with my new tank I just do 2 10 percent water changes a week which seems to keep all the inhabitants happy and just dose once or twice a week.  

Your ferts wont have any negative effect on your vallis.  

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Choppy Nagle (4 Sep 2013)

Thanks Alastair, the reason I wanted to dose everyday was so it could fit in with the fish-feeding schedule hence the10% strength. No matter, I'll probably leave it for now anyway as I was just worried that I isolated my soil too much with Akadama and sand (plants look a bit shabby). I now understand the plants are probably undergoing an adaptive state although I am still a bit concerned that the soil is too compacted.
So, (silly question time)  in a Walstad type setup where a w/c can be anything from 6 months to never, where does the source of carbon come from? Fish poo? Rotten fish food? I assume fresh water would provide more co2 than both.


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## Alastair (4 Sep 2013)

Choppy Nagle said:


> Thanks Alastair, the reason I wanted to dose everyday was so it could fit in with the fish-feeding schedule hence the10% strength. No matter, I'll probably leave it for now anyway as I was just worried that I isolated my soil too much with Akadama and sand (plants look a bit shabby). I now understand the plants are probably undergoing an adaptive state although I am still a bit concerned that the soil is too compacted.
> So, (silly question time)  in a Walstad type setup where a w/c can be anything from 6 months to never, where does the source of carbon come from? Fish poo? Rotten fish food? I assume fresh water would provide more co2 than both.



Yes they could be undergoing an adaptive phase if they are in their emmersed form. What depth of soil did you use?? Its usually an equal amount of soil capped by the same amount of sand etc.  

The carbon source comes from the fish, any additional water top ups/ changes, gas exchange at the surface brings in atmospheric co2 and also the soil itself goes through a process where it produces carbon and feeds directly to the plants roots.  

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Choppy Nagle (5 Sep 2013)

Can't remember how much soil I used but I think I overdid with the Akadama. Probably just being paranoid. Wish I hadn't bothered with the soil retainer though. Thanks for your time Alastair, much appreciated.


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## frothhelmet (2 Oct 2013)

PM me if you want some Black MTS for the tank.


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