# Tropica Substrate Problems or not?



## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

Hello

Reference Tropica Substrate has anybody had any problems with this causing cloudyness in the water?

I recently saw Oliver knott cap this with ADA amazonia powder at TGM demo day, but i am helping a friend and he has done the same but gets constant cloudy water, He suspects that the shrimps are disturbing the gravel too much and causing the cloudiness. Has anybody experienced this?


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## Superman (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

I had it capped by zambezi gravel. The only cloudiness I had was when I uprooted the plants and replanted but that didn't last long if I cleaned up the mess.


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

How deep has he capped it? 5cm is a good amount but i've done it much shallower. With constant messing when the substrate cap is shallow i've noticed the tropica reaching the surface and then it can cause an issue.

There are of corse various reasons for cloudy water, you can usually tell if it's the tropica substrate and it should clear pretty quickly, like within a few hours.


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> How deep has he capped it? 5cm is a good amount but i've done it much shallower. With constant messing when the substrate cap is shallow i've noticed the tropica reaching the surface and then it can cause an issue.
> 
> There are of corse various reasons for cloudy water, you can usually tell if it's the tropica substrate and it should clear pretty quickly, like within a few hours.




I don' think its capped enough.

The only other thing that could cause this cloudiness is the stones, which are Fossilized wood purchased from TGM, is this know to cause any problems?


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## George Farmer (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> I don' think its capped enough.
> 
> The only other thing that could cause this cloudiness is the stones, which are Fossilized wood purchased from TGM, is this know to cause any problems?


No, Fossilized wood doesn't cause cloudiness, or any other issues, IME.


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> andyh said:
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Agreed, my last three long term tanks have featured fossilised wood with no adverse effects.


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> andyh said:
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				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
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Excellent, so i fear that the Tropica has simply not been capped enough.

Do you think that ada is good for capping tropica or is it to light and easily disturbed?
We took influence from Oliver knotts tank at TGM? Although he did use tonnes of ada and we only had so much.


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

It wouln't be my first choice because AS is so good, i don't think you'd really need the tropica stuff, it won't hurt though. When i've used tropica i've capped it with Unipac black gravel which is much heavier.

As you said, oliver used a mountain of AS to cap it off and this clearly isn't feasible for everyone, i know Jim and Mark had to sell their houses to pay for ALL THAT AQUASOIL


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> It wouln't be my first choice because AS is so good, i don't think you'd really need the tropica stuff, it won't hurt though. When i've used tropica i've capped it with Unipac black gravel which is much heavier.
> 
> As you said, oliver used a mountain of AS to cap it off and this clearly isn't feasible for everyone, i know Jim and Mark had to sell their houses to pay for ALL THAT AQUASOIL



I got a bit of "twitch" on for Jim and Mark, Its always great when your not paying!


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Ok then people i have a real challenge then!! We now have to separate the Tropica from our ADA Amazonia, any tricks?


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Can you not just chuck more AquaSoil in there? I know it's pricey but thats your best option if at all possible?


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Can you not just chuck more AquaSoil in there? I know it's pricey but thats your best option if at all possible?



We could do, but then if it doesn't work would have thrown more money at it.  
Its defo worth considering though.


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Are you sure it's the Tropica stuff? If it's a new tank it's more likely to be a bacteria bloom thats making it go cloudy?...


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## JamesM (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Could be a bad batch of ADA AS causing it...


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Could be a bad batch of ADA AS causing it...


Yeah thats also possible. It all depends on what type of "cloudy" it is (i know how silly that sounds)


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## JamesM (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Well I've said before that many people have had trouble, including myself and Paulo. And I have it on good authority that ADA went as far as to change the manufacturer of their AS several months back, although that was rumoured to be because of the problems with Amazonia II. Paulo used standard Amazonia and I use Malaya :?


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## andyh (19 Oct 2009)

*Re: Tropica Substrate Problems*

Holly crap!   I am getting confused now!

Here is a pic of the cloudiness: (ignore the internal filter and heater just a temp thing)











I am not sure what cause it to be honest but the tank gets regular water changes and maintenance, its approx 3 weeks old with an  external mature filter.

It has a Tropica Substrate base with ADA amazonia on top with ADA Sarawak sand in the middle.

Never had an Algae bloom before, does it look like one to you guys?


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## JamesM (19 Oct 2009)

That looks a lot like the problems Paulo and I had 

Try running some filter floss for a few days to see what sort of debris it picks up...


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## bogwood (19 Oct 2009)

Time to stand up and be counted............... its my tank.

Thanks for all your concern and possible causes.
Over the years i have experienced algae blooms, but this time im not convinced this is the cause.

In all honesty i had never considered the ADA, just assumed the tropica had been exposed by my team of 40 shrimps,a couple of the armano are like mini JCBs.

Im reluctant to add more ADA, with the obvious cost factor, particularly if i end up having to discard all the substrat and start again.

Ive just changed the floss in the Eheim external as suggested, and will probably put some carbon in as well.
Meantime as im away for a couple of days, i will bide my time and see what happens.


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## Dan Crawford (19 Oct 2009)

Whilst i'm aware that some people out there have had issues with AquaSoil, i haven't so i can't say whether or not it looks like that when AquaSoil clouds the water but i CAN say that it looks exactly like the issues i had a couple of weeks ago when i added a new filter to run alongside my existing filter. Not particles in the water as such, more just a "cloudiness". If it's your filter it should clear soon, mine was around 10 days all together but it was an FX and thats almost big enough for me to get in so your internal should be quicker. I don't want to sound condescending or similar as you've obviously done all this before, it's just how i see it. (I didn't think my issue was bacteria and it was)


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## The Green Machine (19 Oct 2009)

We have just had this same issue with the tank planted by Oliver at TGM.
We had a similar (not quite as pronounced) yellow leaching effect in his tank that lasted for about four weeks and Oliver used Amazonia, which is black in colour. The similarities between Bogwood's and Olivers tanks are the Fossilised wood and we believe this is where the issue stems from.
On a good note this will ease off with each successive water change and will eventually clear as has Oliver's.
There may however be another issue if the Tropica substrate has not been covered with a minimum layer of 3cm or has been disturbed when the hardscape was put into place as it will  certainly colour the water column  in this way and in this colour as is stated clearly by Tropica in their instructions for use. 
The good news is that this is really a short term issue whatever the cause and will settle with time and water changes.
We hope that this information proves useful and if you require any more help or advice on our products please feel free to phone or PM us and we will be more than happy to share our own first hand experience with you.
We hope that this is of help.

Best regards


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## bogwood (19 Oct 2009)

The-Green-Machine said:
			
		

> We have just had this same issue with the tank planted by Oliver at TGM.
> We had a similar (not quite as pronounced) yellow leaching effect in his tank that lasted for about four weeks and Oliver used Amazonia, which is black in colour. The similarities between Bogwood's and Olivers tanks are the Fossilised wood and we believe this is where the issue stems from.
> On a good note this will ease off with each successive water change and will eventually clear as has Oliver's.
> There may however be another issue if the Tropica substrate has not been covered with a minimum layer of 3cm or has been disturbed when the hardscape was put into place as it will  certainly colour the water column  in this way and in this colour as is stated clearly by Tropica in their instructions for use.
> ...


.

Sounds very much like a solution to my problem.

I attended Olivers demonstraation, and my set up was on the same lines, just a little less Amazonia.
I will increase the water change frequency, and be patience.
Thanks for the explanation.


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## bogwood (5 Nov 2009)

Its now 4 weeks since setting the tank up, and as the pictures show the water is crystal clear.    









As has been suggested, the most likely cause was the  leeching rocks.


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## andyh (6 Nov 2009)

Wow you can actually see the plants now!

That's so much clearer, excellent growth on the plants by the way.


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