# Ammonia not dropping fishless cycle



## Kai McNeil (19 Sep 2016)

Hi All, 

Im after some advice. 

Im currently going through a fishless cycle, Week 5 but i cannot lower my Ammonia. 

Nitrites are zero. 

Nitrates are 50ppm, from the tap, so im using prime and seachem matrix to help control this. 

Ammonia is 0.05ppm from the tap

My current Ammonia levels are 0.014PPM using Seneye home test kit. 

Im currently doing 60% water changes every other day, but im really struggling to get this down. 

My tank is heavily planted, all of the plants are healthy and growing well, im injecting c02 and micro nutrients. 

Any ideas on how i can lower this?


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## EdwinK (19 Sep 2016)

In my opinion your reading of ammonia is low enough. If your ph is below 7 it is even less toxic than with ph above 7. You probably do not want it to get to 0 readings because you will get plant growth issues then.


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## Doubu (19 Sep 2016)

A lot of the above is quite confusing (and surprising) but in order for your ammonia to go down naturally you need to build up enough beneficial bacteria in your filter. I would say increase the temperature a bit if you haven't already... How large is your tank? It may just take time if you have a filter that is not properly rated for the size of the tank (as it can only hold so much bacteria). It's not a bad thing to have nitrates, but ammonia and nitrites you should be worried about. If you don't detect any nitrites that means your ammonia isn't being converted completely by your beneficial bacteria yet. But it'll happen as long as you have ammonia in there.. don't worry it just takes time.


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## EdwinK (19 Sep 2016)

Here is a good explanation of nitrogen cycle - http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...nd-nitrates-during-cycling.41992/#post-451572
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/expected-test-results.42148/#post-453263


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## Aqua360 (19 Sep 2016)

my first reaction would be to check if you have big enough filtration for the tank, can you specify the equipment and tank size?


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## Kai McNeil (19 Sep 2016)

Thanks for the replies all.

My tank is 155 litres, the filter I have is a fluval G3 which is for aquariums up to 300 litres. Maybe your right and I just have to wait longer.


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## dw1305 (19 Sep 2016)

Hi all,





Kai McNeil said:


> My tank is heavily planted, all of the plants are healthy and growing well, im injecting c02 and micro nutrients.


Just stop adding the ammonia, if the plants are in active growth they will take up any ammonia produced by the substrate etc.

For the same reason (actively growing plants) I'd be dubious of the ammonia reading.

If you have a look a the threads "EdwinK" linked in they give a more complete explanation of the possible issues with testing and the reasons why planted tanks are never "cycled" in the conventional sense.

cheers Darrel


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## alto (19 Sep 2016)

Try adding some ammonia (if you happen to have some - check for additives before using in an aquarium) or a good bit of flake food & monitor what happens - look for a rise to (maybe) 1 ppm ammonia, it should "vanish" quickly; then repeat with 2-5 ppm ammonia (just for fun)


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## Kai McNeil (19 Sep 2016)

I have stopped adding ammonia, in fact I have only added fish food twice and that was weeks ago as the ammonia has always been high. I'm going to replace the seneye slide tonight as its due to be replaced anyway.

I'll continue with the water changes and hope it falls. All very confusing! 
I have read a lot into cycling a planted aquarium but the ammonia not dropping is still an issue. Thanks for your help all.


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## Manuel Arias (19 Sep 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> Ammonia is 0.05ppm from the tap
> 
> My current Ammonia levels are 0.014PPM using Seneye home test kit.



This is the problem with this kind of devices...they are not always telling you what it seems they tell. For instance, from Seneye website:

"The Seneye device only measures toxic free ammonia NH3 and the Seneye connect application allows you to look at free ammonia between 0.000ppm and 0.500ppm."

So, it is just giving you the free ammonia in form of NH3. Because of that, you can have certain amount of ammonium (specially at low pHs) that the probe is not able to detect. The advantage of some traditional tests is that the use a method to convert the whole amount of NH3/NH4 into the other by changing the pH of the water in the tube, so you get the total thing in most of the cases. Now, if Seneye gives you only free ammonia, at certain pHs you will have "zero" but lots of NH4+, which is less toxic, but still is toxic. And what is worse: It can become into NH3 if for any reason pH of water increases.

Apart from that, I would be very very skeptical about the fact they give 3 decimal values of NH3 measurements. Note that 0.001 ppm is actually 1 ppb... This is beyond capability of most lab probes, so I think that this is just a number coming from computing a calibration function between known values of NH3 concentration and nothing to do with the actual capability of the device to track ammonia. Your readings are pretty low, so I think that what you get as 0.014 ppm is probably very close to zero.

Hope this help.

Cheers,

Manuel


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## Kai McNeil (19 Sep 2016)

Thanks


Manuel Arias said:


> This is the problem with this kind of devices...they are not always telling you what it seems they tell. For instance, from Seneye website:
> 
> "The Seneye device only measures toxic free ammonia NH3 and the Seneye connect application allows you to look at free ammonia between 0.000ppm and 0.500ppm."
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Manuel, that's really helpful And makes sense now.


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## rebel (19 Sep 2016)

Mate, your tank has cycled. You can stop testing. Add some fish and enjoy it. Watch the plants grow.


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## alto (19 Sep 2016)

Agree with Manuel - he said everything I was too lazy  to type 

- adding the ammonia should convince you that tank has cycled 

(Manuel has also, very succinctly stated why I dislike Seneye )


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## Kai McNeil (19 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Agree with Manuel - he said everything I was too lazy  to type
> 
> - adding the ammonia should convince you that tank has cycled
> 
> (Manuel has also, very succinctly stated why I dislike Seneye )



I actually had it bought as a present for me.... but reading into what Manuel has put above ironically, all it actually does well is tell me the PH and the water temperature 

And my Fluval G3 tells me the tank temp anyways!


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## Manuel Arias (19 Sep 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> I actually had it bought as a present for me.... but reading into what Manuel has put above ironically, all it actually does well is tell me the PH and the water temperature



Well...I did not want to ruin hopes of anyone, really, far beyond my wishes...but crudely said...you are right. Seneye is not reaching the sneak oil category (I reserve that category for Twinstar), but hype advertising to favour selling is a fact, in this case. Not only for this brand, by the way. The device is useful, do not take me wrong, but you need to be aware of the actual limitations and meanings of the readings. Then, you can really use it to control your aquarium. Otherwise can be quite misleading.

Cheers,

Manuel


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## alto (19 Sep 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> all it actually does well is tell me the PH and the water temperature


but it can come direct to your phone at whatever remote location  (depending on cellular signal)

It's not a bad system, it just has somewhat _deceptive_ marketing  - it seems to me to be very much reef oriented  (again I'm a bit dubious on the practical application)
(hopefully the upgraded software will be free to current users)



Kai McNeil said:


> I actually had it bought as a present for me....


what a lovely thoughtful gift 

(you need to leave your "_want list_" taped to the side of your aquarium  )


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