# idiots guide for me please



## hixy (11 Mar 2008)

Hello folks have read loads about EI but still dont have a clue.could someone tell me if i was to order ferts this week what i would need to order.There seem to be so many different types surely i dont need all of them.my tank is 300 litres with pressurized co2 and 216 watts of light

Thanks hixy


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## Luketendo (11 Mar 2008)

216 watts of light?!?!

Are you joking?

That'd be like 2.7 WPG, not taking into account MH, T5s or what not.

Huge amount of light over that size tank.

I'm no expert of EI, but you certainly need it I think.


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## Garuf (11 Mar 2008)

I dunno, that sounds about right to me... as long as you make sure you have a good substrate better co2 and fert's you'll be fine.


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## hixy (11 Mar 2008)

Luketendo said:
			
		

> 216 watts of light?!?!
> 
> Are you joking?
> 
> ...



the tank is a jewel 300 it comes as standard with 2 54 watt t5 nature bulbs so just bought another light unit now have 2 16 watts.i didnt think that was that much.the co2 unit is a bio plast regulator on a fire extinguisher.with in line reactor.

any idea on ferts need to buy please


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## Garuf (11 Mar 2008)

The usual, trace, kno3 and k2po4.
Or an all in one off the shelf product, tropica tpn+ or similar.


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## hixy (11 Mar 2008)

Thank you mate   

sorry can i have the english cant find k2po4.  on aqua essentiasl site


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## daniel19831123 (11 Mar 2008)

mono potassium phosphate


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## discusdean (11 Mar 2008)

when you order mate get a couple of the containers from them and mark on them what they are, and when and how much to dose .made my life so much easier when i started ei last month ,


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## Luketendo (12 Mar 2008)

216 watts is quite a lot on that tank but with an EI regime you should be great.

I'd expect super fast growth.


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## ceg4048 (12 Mar 2008)

Hi,
     Gandalf's magic calculator reveals the following dosing scheme:

3X per week 1 teaspoon KNO3
3X per week 1/4 teaspoon KH2PO4
1X per week (on water changes day)  2 or 3 teaspoons MgSO4 (Epsom Salts)
2X per week 1/4 teaspoon Trace Element Mix or 20 ml TPN

Water change should be at least 50% (150 L). For the next 6-8 weeks of tank operation it would help to perform the water change twice per week. Always dose immediately after the water change.

Poor CO2 is inevitably the downfall of any dosing regimen in a high light tank. Failure to inject properly always stresses the plants tremendously and induces algae formation, which is particularly ugly in the case of EI because of the high nutrient levels present on which the algae will then feed.

Ensure that your CO2 goes on an hour or so before the lights go on and ensure a high enough injection rate without killing your fish.

Be sure to study "CO2 For Dummies"-> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=467  

Cheers,


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## afroturf (12 Mar 2008)

Heres a .link that has help me, for making up solutions of dry ferts i always feel abit more comfortable dosing a solution than a teaspoon of this half a teaspoon of that.

As cag4048 said effective and consistant co2 dosing i very important and is where i fell down on my first attempt at EI.


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## hixy (12 Mar 2008)

Big thanks to everyone especially ceg4048


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## hixy (13 Mar 2008)

One last stupid question how much do i need to order dont want to order to little 

thanks again


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## ceg4048 (13 Mar 2008)

Hi,
     Start with a half-to-full kilo of KNO3, and 1/4 kilo each of the rest. Should last you a couple/three months but see what your consumption is before reordering. Obviously, you'll use 4 times as much NO3 as PO4/Traces so keep that in mind.

By the way George gave us this link for cheapest dry powder prices found so far: http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/

Cheers,


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## hixy (13 Mar 2008)

Thanks ceg4048 your the main man


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## hixy (16 Mar 2008)

I have ordered my ferts they should  be here this week.Do i still use flourish excel wilst dosing

thanks


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## nry (16 Mar 2008)

Excel is a benefit more when you don't use CO2 so I'd not bother.


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## ceg4048 (16 Mar 2008)

nry said:
			
		

> Excel is a benefit more when you don't use CO2 so I'd not bother.



Not necessarily. That statement would be true if you have unlimited CO2 reaching the plants, which almost certainly never happens. Excel/Easycarbo supplementation is always useful. Due to cost it may seem wise to delete it's addition but you could simply use less of it. This gives you more margin of error in CO2 injection.

In the the first paragraph of the first of the idiots guide there would be the statement in bold font size 36: "Never underestimate the importance of Carbon."  

Cheers,


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## Ed Seeley (16 Mar 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> nry said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with Clive.  I used Easycarbo daily with above 30ppm CO2 when I first set up my tank to make sure algae never got a foothold and it certainly didn't do any harm (except to my wallet maybe!  ).  I still add doses after water changes and after trimming/removing plants in case disturbing the substrate liberates NH3 or the trimming affects the plant uptake of nutrients in anyway; basically an insurance policy.  Probably unneccesary but it can't hurt.


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## hixy (16 Mar 2008)

Thank you both


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## hixy (20 Mar 2008)

Started IE last night and my tank has gone mental think i need to buy more fast growing plants.my anubis and java fern are covered in algae but everything else seems fine.


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## ceg4048 (20 Mar 2008)

hi hixy,
            Exactly what did you do, step by step from start to finish. Exactly what kins of algae is it. Got pictures?

Cheers,


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## hixy (20 Mar 2008)

hello ceg4048,i did as you said i have done 2  50% water changes in 3 days got dry ferts yesterday and added 1 tsp KNO3, 1/4 tsp of KH2PO4,2 tsp epsom salts and tonight added 1/4 tsp of trace element.doing a 50% water change is no mean feet when have to carry water in buckets from garage ha ha.you said add epsom salts when i change water. is that every time .here are algae pics.the red plant in the middle looks like its grown to inches in a day even though its covered with algae.


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## ceg4048 (20 Mar 2008)

hixy said:
			
		

> hello ceg4048,i did as you said i have done 2  50% water changes in 3 days got dry ferts yesterday and added 1 tsp KNO3, 1/4 tsp of KH2PO4,2 tsp epsom salts and tonight added 1/4 tsp of trace element.doing a 50% water change is no mean feet when have to carry water in buckets from garage ha ha.you said add epsom salts when i change water. is that every time .here are algae pics.the red plant in the middle looks like its grown to inches in a day even though its covered with algae.



Well this is mysterious because that looks like BGA and that could only happen if you have a _shortage_ of nitrate. What have you been dosing over the past couple of weeks prior to getting the ferts yesterday? and especially the 3 days prior when you did the water changes?

Good grief, why are you changing water via buckets from the garage?  Don't you have a garden hose you could just hook up? We really need to understand everything about where the tank is what kind of water you are using (tap or RO?) What you've been doing for nutrients prior to getting the powders, what kind of filtration and substrate you are using etc. There is no way you add nitrate and get BGA the next day. It appears as if the tank had been on the decline for some time before you added the dry powders.

Clean by hand, do another water change and then a 3 day blackout by turning off the lights and covering the tank but continue dosing.  The final picture looks like possibly GSA which means low phosphates, so again if you just added it yesterday I'm hard pressed to believe it was anything but a coincidence. Again, the indications are that the tank had been starving for a little bit prior.

Cheers mate,


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## hixy (21 Mar 2008)

the algae doesnt look to bad today would water changes clear it up.my water goes through a hma filter which removes heavy metals and most other things.like i say things are growing like mad at the moment and trying to talk the misses into covering up my tank for 3 days isnt going to go down well.i did buy some lilly pond plant tablets and put them in the Substrate could that have caused the problem.i will remove plants clean them and carry on with water changes .


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## ceg4048 (21 Mar 2008)

Hi hixy,
           As far as I can tell from what I have read the Heavy Metal Axe filter should have no effect, at least any more than using RO water. Is that why you have to use buckets, because your HMA filter is in the garage? You don't need it you know. Are you using HMA water because of discus? If it's just for the plants just use tap. In any case you are dosing trace metals into the tank so that should not be a factor. 

If the blackout is not practical then the only thing you can do in the interim is to lower the lighting perhaps by 30% or so, limit the photoperiod to less than 10 hours, continue to do twice or thrice weekly water changes, and continue to dose. Just before you do the water changes scrub like mad and use a net if you have to to get as much algae mass out of the tank. Dose immediately after the water change. I just want to warn you that it may be a couple weeks before you have it licked but once you do you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

In my opinion, get rid of all pond tablets.   I don't know what's in them but it wouldn't surprise me if there are some ammonia salts mixed in and if that's the case it can make life difficult if you disturb the substrate while you are cleaning and scrubbing.

Cheers mate,


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## hixy (21 Mar 2008)

Hello mate use hma for my discus which is in garage were the water is warmed up over night.Then as i dont have a pump that would pump the water 60 feet a have to use buckets dont mind. its my only bit of excercise i get nowadays.Thanks for help will let you know how i get on.


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## beeky (26 Mar 2008)

BGA grows very fast when it gets a hold, but it doesn't spring from nothing overnight. I suspect that it was there before but only became noticeable overnight.

Low nitrates maybe right but IME the presence of BGA is due to poor filtration (this may lead to a drop in nitrates due to the inefficient break down of ammonia), although once it's there it's tricky to get rid of. The only thing that worked for me was continual cleaning and water changes every day for a week and then a 3 day black out followed by another few days of water changes.


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## hixy (26 Mar 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> BGA grows very fast when it gets a hold, but it doesn't spring from nothing overnight. I suspect that it was there before but only became noticeable overnight.
> 
> Low nitrates maybe right but IME the presence of BGA is due to poor filtration (this may lead to a drop in nitrates due to the inefficient break down of ammonia), although once it's there it's tricky to get rid of. The only thing that worked for me was continual cleaning and water changes every day for a week and then a 3 day black out followed by another few days of water changes.




hello beeky got  to disagree with the poor filtration statement i have got an ehiem 2080 which is supposed to turn over 1700 litres an hour plus a juwel jumbo internal filter.and all this on a 300 litre tank.

ceg4048 .all the algae has gone and changing 50% water every other day do i need to add epsom salts everytime i do a water change.

thanks hixy


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## ceg4048 (26 Mar 2008)

Wow hixy, are you lifting 150 kilos of water and carrying it up a 60 feet of stairs every day?? I'm gonna have to petition the Stourbridge council to commission a statue of you and have it placed in the town center. No doubt about that.  

My personal policy is to do a full dosing of all nutrients after all water changes. If you are doing the bucket brigade every day this makes it a bit awkward because the traces are normally dosed on alternate days. If you will continue to do daily water changes then dose the macros (Nitrate, Phosphate) + epsom salts immediately after the change and then wait several hours and dose the traces. You must wait a few hours before dosing the traces (I assume you are using the powdered traces right?) otherwise the traces interact with the phosphate, the Iron becomes insoluble and is lost for a while. If you are using commercial traces then you can dose these traces at the same time.

Glad to hear the tank is on the mend.  

Cheers,


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## hixy (26 Mar 2008)

hello mate doing water changes every other day so bassically 3 times a week.thanks for reply


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