# Can i keep german rams in my water?



## bhavik (11 Jun 2019)

Im not sure if i will be able to keep german rams in my water not sure what the PH of my water is but this is what i got from my local water company

these are the details of the quality of my water


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (12 Jun 2019)

You have very hard water. Rams need total hardness less than half of that so you'd need to be doing say 60% ro : 40% tap water.


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## bhavik (12 Jun 2019)

Ok that’s fine I’m assuming they wouldn’t last long in my water?

Is there any thing similar that I can keep?


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## dw1305 (12 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 





bhavik said:


> Is there any thing similar that I can keep?


Bolivian Rams (_Mikrogeophagus altispinosus_) are more likely to succeed, or the Cockatoo cichlid (_Apistogramma cacatuoides)_. I haven't seen any good quality ones (of either) for sale a while though, so you would probably need to get hobbiest bred ones.

cheers Darrel


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## bhavik (12 Jun 2019)

im just curious so i have a water softener which is connected to the hot water tap only
So if i were to use that water with the cold water would that lower the hardness of the water and reduce the PH of the water?


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (12 Jun 2019)

These water softeners replace the hardness with another element, they do not actually remove anything from the water. Sorry that quite a non-technical answer, id have to look it up to remind myself of the detail, but suffice to say they are not useful for reducing hardness so far as fish are concerned.


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## bhavik (12 Jun 2019)

oh ok i see, i thought i would just ask.
im assuming it would have no effect on the ph of the water then?


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (13 Jun 2019)

Just been reminding myself about this... the answer it seems is... it depends!...

Water softeners replace calcium and magnesium (which are what we measure as hardness) for sodium, which increases the total dissolved solids, and therefore doesnt really make the water less hard. It's more about taste and how easily soaps lather etc so far as we humans are concerned... but this is totally unnatural so far as the fish are concerned which would not encounter sodium rich water in the wild and so are not adapted to deal with such conditions.

Things like Brita filter cartridges replace the calcium and magnesium for hydrogen. As pH is ultimately a measure of the number of hydrogen ions in a given volume of water - the more there are, the lower the pH - this lowers the pH quite significantly. Again of course this affects whether the water is suitable for fish species in question.

Thanks to my friend Sue on another forum for explaining this to me... that said, if someone with more chemistry understanding than me wants to correct any of this please feel free!


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## dw1305 (13 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 





Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Water softeners replace calcium and magnesium (which are what we measure as hardness) for sodium, which increases the total dissolved solids, and therefore doesnt really make the water less hard. It's more about taste and how easily soaps lather etc so far as we humans are concerned... but this is totally unnatural so far as the fish are concerned which would not encounter sodium rich water in the wild and so are not adapted to deal with such conditions.


That one. We have a water softener and it gets through <"a lot of salt">. 





Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Things like Brita filter cartridges replace the calcium and magnesium for hydrogen. As pH is ultimately a measure of the number of hydrogen ions in a given volume of water - the more there are, the lower the pH - this lowers the pH quite significantly. Again of course this affects whether the water is suitable for fish species in question.


Depends on the cartridge, the <"Brita C type swap a H+ ion for a Ca++ ion">, other types swap a potassium ion  (K+) for a calcium (Ca++) ion. They all have an activated carbon pod as well.

cheers Darrel


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## roadmaster (13 Jun 2019)

Maybe shell dweller cichlids would be a species for consideration for Harder water?.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (19 Jun 2019)

Other apecies you could consider include: Platys, Guppies, Molly's, Threadfin Rainbowfish, Dwarf Rainbowfish, Dwarf Puffers, Sparkling Gouramin Croaking Gourami, Bumblebee Goby


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## becks (21 Jun 2019)

your other options would be to buy an RODI filter and mix with tap water or add the minerals to pure rodi


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## Tim Harrison (21 Jun 2019)

I'm guessing it depends if they were captive bred in local water or not, like a lot of so called soft water fishes. I've kept captive bred in hard water and they seem to have thrived. I also had a pair of wild caught rams back in the day and they didn't seem to mind either. But the guys are right generally they probably do better in soft water.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (21 Jun 2019)

Water temperature may be a factor too... they like it a bit hotter - 26 degrees. Only yesterday I found photos of my old breeding pair.


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## Chris Tinker (26 Jun 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> I'm guessing it depends if they were captive bred in local water or not, like a lot of so called soft water fishes. I've kept captive bred in hard water and they seem to have thrived. I also had a pair of wild caught rams back in the day and they didn't seem to mind either. But the guys are right generally they probably do better in soft water.


 your rams are beautiful 

i think i will be going rams


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