# "Fifty Shades of Green" - (1600 Litre Sanjarami)



## sanj

I dont know what to call it, its too early and i think I will only get a real feel of where it is going when im in the tank, bruising my fingers and getting angry at the tree stumps. Hopefully I wont get too frustrated about it and it will manifest itself with ease... hmm.

Sanjarami...well i suppose its my thing, but with influences no doubt. In essense I lean towards the Jungle scape, just find it more dynamic, interesting ever changing than say an Iwagumi which are great, but after a while they do not hold the same interest for me. Think Green Machine Rainbow Fish display, that was my favourite out of their original three scapes.

Also im doing this with the focus on my Fish as well as plants, im kind of 50:50. Currently all my plants and fish are waiting in three holding tanks and now it looks like its going to be a longer wait for them than I had anticpated. They are chiefly Rainbows and Torpedo barbs... not entirely plant friendly i might add, or rather too plant friendly sometimes.

This was their previous home an 8ft 860 litre little world. I have shown this before(apologies), but gives an idea what was and this Journal where they are going: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr66AH4RmNk 

Sold the old tank last week probably too cheaply, but i had a bit of a panic when my help and I could not budge it and the new tank stand was to be put together in a matter of days. 

The New set up will be an Acrylic tank via TGM, at this size I really wanted to go lighter(48% weight of glass), stronger, clearer (better than opti white) and no silicone. Only slight downside with Acrylic is that they are more easy to scratch, but most people will scratch their glasss at some point and unlike Acrylic, glass scratches are difficult to remove. I  watched a demonstration at TGM on how easily scratches can be removed from Acrylic.

The cabinet is designed by non other than my father, a master of Engineering design . It is designed to be taken apart and fit through the door when i eventually move. Essentially it is a steel frame clad in Melamine coated MDF. Nice Oak wood would have been better, but ofcourse very expensive. 

This has been in planning since Nov 2009. So taking a while. 

Anyway enough babble, heres the stats:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Acrylic Tank (via TGM): 244cm x 93cm x 70cm h (approx 1,600 litre gross).

Cabinet: Steel frame construction, cladd in Melamine coated MDF.

Light Stand: 4 part Steel tubing, designed to take 100kg (prolly over kill).

Lighting: Ati Power module x 2 (4x 54w) Therefore 432w in total.

Heating: 2x 300w hydor external inline heaters (from old tank)

Filtration: from old tank, Eheim 2080, FX5, 2x Tetratec ex1200s (these are doing dog work of co2 injection and taking inline heaters)

CO2: 2x5kg via Aquamas inline Reactors (from old tank)

Additional circulation: 12,000 litre/hour Ecotech Vortech MP40 

Substrate: Some old ADA Malaya from previous tank and new ADA Malaya, Tropica Substrate, Unipac Zambezi sand, some grades of gravel.

Decor: Two tree stumps, possibly Blue stone from old tank or boulders/pebbles as support to the main tree stump features. Also redmoor roots.

Plants:  Mostly from old tank  and are predominalty crypts (parva, wendti green,tropica,brown, Mi oya, petchii, willisi, Balansae  and ferns (various forms of Java and bolitis). I am also going to try elocharis again. In the last tank it got pulled up, ADA substrate does not hold these plants well, but sand over tropica should work better.

Fauna: Predominantly Rainbows and torpedo barbs from my old system. They are moving house yay! Currently crowded in 400 litre digs boo! 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So on destroying their old world I was surprised to find 3 year old Amano shrimp that had disappeard soon after setting up 2 years ago. I thought the loaches and Rainbows might have taken them because i have not seen them for so long. No cherries survived though.


----------



## sanj

*Last saturday 08/05/2010*

Family arrives all the way from Peterborough with with cabinet in pieces ready to be assembled.

Below is the steel frame being bolted together:








Starting to bolt on the Cladding:




Dad posing, while Garry does all the hard graft:




Nearly done:




Completed:


----------



## sanj

I just can't get over how clear these Acrylic tanks are, its almost like there is nothing there.


----------



## russchilds

Wow!!! Just watched the youtube of your old tank - lovely!!! This is going to be great! Love the stand and light. Really looking forward to seeing this one!


----------



## LondonDragon

sanj said:
			
		

> I just can't get over how clear these Acrylic tanks are, its almost like there is nothing there.


Yeah I am having a hard time spotting it also        

Congrats on the great stand     

Looking forward to this, my kind of tank, you going to keep rainbows or try something else?


----------



## jcastell

considering the size of the tank, how thick is the acrylic and how many people did it take to move it? Pretty scary proposition, but a whole lot less scarier in acrylic obviously. I take it at 70cm that should just fit through the front door?  

I take it that it's braced?

Also, who made your cabinet since I'm on the lookout for something similar like what you have.


----------



## a1Matt

Hats off to your dad, that is a great stand


----------



## Garuf

It should be good Sanj! What's your reasoning behind not using a sump? It seems like the perfect opportunity with such a big tank, what ever the case it really will be great, I'm suffering tank envy already.


----------



## sanj

> Wow!!! Just watched the youtube of your old tank - lovely!!! This is going to be great! Love the stand and light. Really looking forward to seeing this one!



Thanks very much Russ, the fish did not allow me to scape that old tank exactly how i wanted it, there was supposed to be alot of grass in there. Ill try again this time, hopefully this will be an improvement.



> Looking forward to this, my kind of tank, you going to keep rainbows or try something else?



Bows and denisonis, they are all in a 400 litre tank. There are SAEs, loaches, rummy noses aswell. oh and those super tough veteran Amanos, which i guess i wont see once they are in. Pity they dont breed in freshwater.



> considering the size of the tank, how thick is the acrylic and how many people did it take to move it? Pretty scary proposition, but a whole lot less scarier in acrylic obviously. I take it at 70cm that should just fit through the front door?



15mm I believe and yes it will be braced, unfortunately braceless would get into very silly money and i think it would be 30mm thick. Have you seen the Altum tank in The Green Machine, similar to that. You are right 70cm approx 28"was largely becasue of the door, I will have to take the door off, but the space is a bit wider than 70cm.The other reason being maintenance starts to get more and more difficult the taller it gets. I am waiting on the tank, it is taking longer to manufacture than i was expecting, but i would rather have it done properly and wait. 

The whole construction was undertaken by my father and his contacts in industry. If you are interested i am sure they would be willign to look into it. 



> Hats off to your dad, that is a great stand



Thanks Matt, i was impressed too. I should have asked him a long time ago, with my previous tanks.


----------



## sanj

Garuf said:
			
		

> It should be good Sanj! What's your reasoning behind not using a sump? It seems like the perfect opportunity with such a big tank, what ever the case it really will be great, I'm suffering tank envy already.



I did consider it, but it can always be added at a later date. Most likey when I move which maybe in a couple of years. While i know sumped planted tanks do exist, Amanos monster for example, they seem to use a lot more co2 and perhaps not just because of the added volume. They are also alot more noisy, well my reef system is while the old planted tank was practically silent yet more than twice the capacity. So its not a no no, just not yet.


----------



## sanj

These will be the dominant hardscape features, the larger one being the focal and the smaller closer to the front and at an angle. Pity the smaller one had a clean flat cut, but perhaps this can be utilised; kind of a rejuvination of life after desecration of the forest...

It is diffiult to place them without the tank and subrate to mould the scape, but when i sketch it, it looks more satisfactory. Ill have to just see how i develop it, dont want it to be shoddy. Well one thing i have noticed plants are able to soften many faults.


----------



## jcastell

> They are also alot more noisy, well my reef system is while the old planted tank was practically silent yet more than twice the capacity.



That's not correct. It depends how you engineer them. Usually it's because people have bad overflow or syphon box design and they get gurgling etc. . .

Noisy pumps don't help at all.  Will drive everyone round the bend. 

If you use a trickle filter the sound is actually very therapeutic.  



> 15mm I believe and yes it will be braced, unfortunately braceless would get into very silly money and i think it would be 30mm thick.



That's nice to hear. 15mm is reasonable. 30mm will probably frighten the life out of most people.   I have acrylic tanks myself. 15mm in weight is similar to 7.5mm in glass, and I take it you'll be using those suckers that the glazers use to move glass?

I wouldn't want tall tanks either. For one the light needed would be higher, getting to the plants would be a pain especially if you're not particularly tall, and water pressure is higher requiring thicker use of acrylic which means more cost.

This should be a really nice tank if you do it right, but man, the thought of having to scrap off GSA or GDA or diatoms etc if something goes wrong would probably give me sleepless nights.


----------



## tomsteer

I'm so jealous, theres a spot in our front room that I could just squeeze something of that size in BUT it would mean that the other halfs piano would have to go and thats a discussion I know would only end with one outcome.

Beautiful cabinet, great finish with nice lighting stand. As has been said hats off to you dad, beautiful use of simple but clever engineering.

I look forward to seeing this progress.

Tom


----------



## sanj

> That's not correct. It depends how you engineer them. Usually it's because people have bad overflow or syphon box design and they get gurgling etc. . .



I think i over exaggerated, not that it is very noisy, but I could barely hear the non sumped tank. Listening to it i can here a slight trickle, but its not gurgling. 



> Beautiful cabinet, great finish with nice lighting stand. As has been said hats off to you dad, beautiful use of simple but clever engineering.



Thanks very much Tom, although Dad designed it, it was the metal manufacturers and the builder who made it possible.


----------



## jcastell

> I think i over exaggerated, not that it is very noisy, but I could barely hear the non sumped tank. Listening to it i can here a slight trickle, but its not gurgling.



you can have a totally silent sump setup if you know how to do it, that's my point.

the biggest noise contributor to my fish only sump setup is the Eheim 2262 pump!

Deltec HLP pumps are probably the quietest available, if they were on Eheims canisters you'll hear no noise. The only problem with them is cost. My Eheim 2217 makes more noise than my Deltec return pump.  

I notice you're using just 8 x 54 watts T5s, so I take it that you're going the low light route, because that sound awfully low for 1600 litres. I'm running 4 x 54 watts for my 270 litre acrylic tank which might be too high since I'm getting GDA and GSA and some brown smear algae, I'll upgrade flow and half the lighting soon.


----------



## hazeljane

Very nice well done keep up the hard work      



Stu.


----------



## sanj

> I notice you're using just 8 x 54 watts T5s, so I take it that you're going the low light route, because that sound awfully low for 1600 litres. I'm running 4 x 54 watts for my 270 litre acrylic tank which might be too high since I'm getting GDA and GSA and some brown smear algae, I'll upgrade flow and half the lighting soon.



Ah well you see I think the dynamics are not proportional with tank size, one thing I have learnt over the last couple of years is that co2 and flow are more important. I mean light is the ultimate driver, but actually plants grow very well at lower light than normally/traditionally thought as long as nutrient distribution and co2 is good. I am still waiting on my PAR meter to arrive which will help me optimise the lighting position.  That was part of the reason for chosing the ATI units  and also the flexibility of moving them up and down on the light stand.

I have looked at PAR readings recorded on Reef tanks and they are high with these ATI albeit they usually have been tests on 6 spans of tubes instead of four. I dont need nearly the same intensity, but i do need sufficient spread and that might be more of an issue; differential intensity. I initially was talkinf about 450w halides with supplementary 160w t5s (Arcadia S4). However having some exchanges with Clive it became apparent that perhaps it was not ideal. 

T5s on decent ballasts with good reflectors should have sufficient punch in 30" deep tanks. The ATIs i have have active cooling and they help prevent overheatign and PAR deterioration that is seen more in passive cooled units. 30-50 PAR across the bottom is suffient, if the spread does not reach the edges then i may supplement with my LEDs. I may use additional LEds anyway, the shimmer and dimming is great.

So I guess i am looking at light sufficient for for my plants to thrive, but it will hopefully be the limiting factor and not nutrients and co2. i do have concerns though being open top. But some of those plants will be stems and alot of elocharis. i shuold be able to grow most plants.

Have you seen this calculator, it has been posted on this site before, but it is a comparison of tank size and light wattage on several of Amano's tanks and as you will see watts/tank volume drop off with size. It recomends somthing like 365 watts for my tank size, but its a rough indicator. http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html
Alot more light will been more work and as you have mentioned I dont want a plague of GSA. I did have some of it on my last tank, but i think that was more co2 distribution. It was not terrible, but still enough to be annoying.


----------



## sanj

hazeljane said:
			
		

> Very nice well done keep up the hard work
> 
> 
> 
> Stu.



Thanks Stu, hope i dont mess up on the scaping.


----------



## sanj

> you can have a totally silent sump setup if you know how to do it, that's my point.
> 
> the biggest noise contributor to my fish only sump setup is the Eheim 2262 pump!



The most complaint I get is from the fans on the ecolamps (led lighting), the other being the auto-top up, so really the sump noise is too low to be an aggrevation for anyone except when i first set up the reef and it was like a bath running. Since then I tweaked alot and there is only a trickle, but not managed to get it totally silent. The return I use is an Eheim compat 3000+.


----------



## sanj

I changed the light tubes that I am using from 8x Plant Pro to 4x Osram 880 and 4x Plant Pro. It gives a less overall pink colour and hopefully will still enhance reds amd blues of the fauna aswell as the greens of the flora.


----------



## sanj

...and after far too long the tank eventually arrived! It was significantly easier to move from the van into the house than my previous float glass aquarium that had an 860 litre capacity. The finish is very good indeed all seemed worth it in the end, just hope the floor doesnt collapse...  

Pic below is of the initial filling, sorry its a bit dark.


----------



## flygja




----------



## arty

Realy huge  tank 
I'l awaiting next Yours posts-journal.
Very interesting 

Regards,


----------



## Gill

damn sanj that thing is huge, when is my invite


----------



## JohnC

congrats and well done.

i bet you are wetting yourself with excitement everytime you wake up and realise what you have designed


----------



## sanj

Thanks guys, its been exciting and hard work, had taken the week off to set up, so much to do. Lol the guy who delivered the tank asked whether i had a Wife or girlfriend or am i getting divorced now.  

I have been trying to recycle some of the wood and hardscape from the previous setup...everything is so expensive in this hobby! 

Anyway still have not thought of a great name for this scape, but i have known for months roughly how it would look...yes as I mentioned somthing of the Junglesque.

Anyway does Blue stone and wood go to together... I was not sure, but then I had to use what I had, bank balance is looking pretty unhealthy at the moment. 

There were basically two formations I was going to go for either bring the two tree stumps closer together and create a mound effect or space them apart more with somthing of a valley between. I went for the latter, this being the formation I kept going back to. I know its not anything spectacular or ground breaking, but i wanted it to be pleasant.
There are always physical constaints and in the photo below there left tree stump was right up against a brace, thats as far as it could go, on the otherside of the brace it would have been too far left.


----------



## NeilW

The scale and the detail of that is incredible, unlike most tanks its not a miniature copy but looks like something you'd actually see on a woodland walk.  Most people use redmoor or similar to recreate a tree stump but you actually have tree stumps!  On that scale thats not 'scaping, more like landscape gardening  .  Are you keeping that left hand part with an open sand foreground?  Very very nice.


----------



## russchilds

Looks great - love it!


----------



## B7fec

OMG!! Great stuff, love the detail in those HUGE tree stumps, keep up the good work.........I'll be keeping a close eye on this!

Cheers Ben


----------



## Nick16

where did you get those stumps from if you dont mind me asking.... 

i know it may sound a silly question, but i presume they are real?


----------



## a1Matt

This is looking really good to me.   



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> On that scale thats not 'scaping, more like landscape gardening  .



   Well said!


----------



## sanj

Hi yes they are real, some kind of hardwood, I tried to hack in to the flat surface of the smaller one to see if i could try and make it look more of stump from a natural tree fall instead of  a cut one, but no luck its tough and then I was concerned about damaging the butresses.

Funny enough (re landscape gardening) I got it from the water garden section in Shirley Aquatics earlier in the year when they had a sale on. I dont think it was a regular product, when I asked the staff person in question seemed uncertain if they would be able to get anymore, either that or was just trying to make a sale. There is one still there but its about 4 foot high! Have not seen any others since.

Speaking of redmoor, I have used this aswell, ill post some pics. Not 100% sure about it, but i have to remember this is a jungle scape for rainbows and these redmoor roots have java fern growing on them, it is also an attempt to balance out the scape a bit especially on the left tree where it is a little to the right of where i wanted it.  If you can see the back wall I wanted the stump to come up to there because i was going to use black backing to hide the wall. It would have been a good division between the open two side view and the area where you can only view from the front.


----------



## mlgt

Looking impressive


----------



## glenn

that stone placement below the tree stumps is sweet, i love the main stump it looks so natural. i cant wait to see it planted!


----------



## Krishs Bettas

That wood is awsome!!! I realy like these kind of scapes


----------



## Gill

Looks Amazing so far Sanj - Well Done


----------



## TDI-line

Nice work Sanj. 8)


----------



## LondonDragon

Now that is looking Awesome!!! Looking forward to the rest of the project! Subscribed! Keep up the good work, just a shame the second trunk does not go all the way to the surface, that would look even better.


----------



## TBRO

Looking epic, could you tie loads of bolbitis or java fern around the cut top of the smaller stump? T


----------



## sanj

TBRO said:
			
		

> Looking epic, could you tie loads of bolbitis or java fern around the cut top of the smaller stump? T



Funny you said that...





Full of bubbles...





Evening shot with only Plant pros on:





Thanks for all the kind comments guys, I know there is lots of room for improvement. I am 10% unsure about the redmoor, but as i have mentioned many times already, its meant to have somthing of a jungle feel, perhaps the edge of a forest by a stream, maybe a sunken forest...some bugger had chopped a tree down and now the forest is claiming it back


----------



## TBRO

Oh that is just so cool, what fish??


----------



## sanj

Rainbows chiefly, many coming from my last set up, but also I have been very forunate enough to be able to get hold of some pure bred species that are not common here at all in the UK and I am also very lucky that they are breeding.


----------



## LondonDragon

Just keeps getting better and better  look forward to a video of this tank


----------



## jay

Wow. Finally a large tank that has some great 'scaping. The tree stumps look amazing, and in really good position. Would be good to resist the urge to fill the sides with too many stems, think that would ruin the centre mound layout.
Keep thinking this tank needs moss... and lots of it!  

Really nicely done and lots of potential.


----------



## sanj

Well Jay, if I can get my scape to have a similar feel to yours I will be well chuffed. There is balansae on the left side, problem i have is this is the side where all the filter inlets and outlets will be. Unfortunately the 'clear' tubing i ordered looks rather opaque. At the moment there are only two filters on here. These are the dogs body co2 injectors and inline heater carriers. I have two other filters to put on yet in about a month when the fish are ready to move in to their new home.


----------



## Graeme Edwards

Hey Sanj, this is looking swish to the wish.... Are you fully planted yet?


----------



## jay

sanj said:
			
		

> Well Jay, if I can get my scape to have a similar feel to yours I will be well chuffed. There is balansae on the left side, problem i have is this is the side where all the filter inlets and outlets will be. Unfortunately the 'clear' tubing i ordered looks rather opaque. At the moment there are only two filters on here. These are the dogs body co2 injectors and inline heater carriers. I have two other filters to put on yet in about a month when the fish are ready to move in to their new home.


Thank you.

Having to hide pipework is always a bit of a pain. Putting balansae there sounds good, lovely plant. 
Really looking forward to watching this tank mature. Started it every well, better than the usual look of a big ol' tank.

I just keep looking at it!   Imagining the layout in a couple of months time... So envious.


----------



## FishBeast

LOL I love it. Nothing like a massive scape done well. I understand its too late now but had you considered raising the substrate under the right hand log so that the top reaches the surface? You scape does look amazing though.


----------



## George Farmer

Wow!  Kudos for doing such a great job with the hardscape in such a large tank.

His has the biggest potential of any aquascape I've seen in a long time.


----------



## ChilliPepper

Looks fantastic so far


----------



## sanj

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Hey Sanj, this is looking swish to the wish.... Are you fully planted yet?



Hey thanks Graeme, it is almost all planted, the photos dont show it well, but also alot of my plants are not in great condition, the wait was a lot longer than I had expected and some of them deteriorated to varying degrees. Hope that will reverse now. 

Been doing some PAR readings, quite a range with full lighting (8x54w) 230 at the centre surface down to 45-50 in the bottom corners and this is with T5 lighting 18" above the water surface on a tank 28" deep. I just hope that range is not going to cause havoc. I have half lighting on for 8 hours and full for 2 hours at the moment, might extend full lighting to 4 hours not sure yet. No pearling, but then these are mostly ferns and crypt and its early days. drop checker is light green, it s that cal aqua one with the reagent solution already mixed in a bottle.


----------



## sanj

FishBeast said:
			
		

> LOL I love it. Nothing like a massive scape done well. I understand its too late now but had you considered raising the substrate under the right hand log so that the top reaches the surface? You scape does look amazing though.



I did consider that yes, but I found it  would upset other balances in the scape, the left trunk is the main focus the right is meant to be a support to it leaning slightly to give some weighting to the layout.



> Wow! Kudos for doing such a great job with the hardscape in such a large tank.
> 
> His has the biggest potential of any aquascape I've seen in a long time.



Thanks dude, that is a slightly scary comment, what if I mess it up lol. It was somewhat stressful aswell as enjoyable, did not want to screw up after all the time and effort culminating on the last week. Still there are things that can be improved, limiations that prevent from doing exactly what I envisioned, but i think perhaps many feel the same with their scapes. 

Thanks for the comments Chillipepper and others.


----------



## flygja

That is well executed, reminds me of the scale of Oliver Knott's discus scapes. I secretly harbor ambitions to do one of these tree stump scapes one day


----------



## alan_uk

that looks amazing agree with above ive always wanted to do something like this since seeing a picture in a book once of a discus tank tht looked very similar


----------



## ghostsword

The tank would look great with some sort of emmersed plants on the sides, that would probably hide some pipework, with Micranthemum or other stems dangling from wall planters hooked on the rim.


----------



## sanj

On my old 8x2x2 i initially ran 5 external filters: 2x Tetratec ex1200s (co2 carriers and inline heaters) 1x Eheim 2080 and 2x Fluval Fx5s. I then removed one FX5, now im thinking of going down to 3 by removing either the Eheim or the Fx5. FX5 piping would be less intrusive as it is black and have placed black background on the leftside upto the wall. Not sure yet, I also want to add a UV onto the filter (primarily to keep Mcyobacteria down), but with fx5 will have to use a reducer to 16/22. To compensate for flow I have added another Vortech MP40 from the old reef. 

Currenly the two Vortechs at either end (staggered with on further back and one further forward) are at approx half power each therefore providing 12,000lph turnover during the day. Oh yes I replaced one Tetra with an Aquamanta 400 because the tetra was leaking...again!. Although the Tetra and Aquamanta are rated at 1200 and 1400lph respectively, to be cautious they probably are nearer 1500lph combined and then either will be using the Eheim (rated 1700lph) 1200lph real or the Fx5 (rated 2300lph) which is 1900lph more realistically.

Either way I make up turnover at approx x10 if one takes into account hardscape displacement. I estimate actual water is prolly 1,200 litres.   

Only think is less biological filtration, but still its 3x externals, dont think it will be a probelm, but then this is not fish light.

I think that is where I may let down on some peoples tastes, I have many rainbows and and am in the process of setting up 3 systems including this one. I have a few species that are pure bred from reputable breeders and only 1 to three generations (F1s and F3s) from the wild populations.


----------



## sanj

ghostsword said:
			
		

> The tank would look great with some sort of emmersed plants on the sides, that would probably hide some pipework, with Micranthemum or other stems dangling from wall planters hooked on the rim.



I thought about growing somthing on the main tree as it reaches a couple of inches out of the water, but there is no controlled humidity as it is an open environment so what ever is is has to be ok with that and not dry out. Your idea is certainly  worth thinking about. Thanks


----------



## ghostsword

Why not use normal ferns. Try Adiantum capillus-veneris.


----------



## sanj

> Why not use normal ferns. Try Adiantum capillus-veneris.



I think i might look into that,it might even help with some shading.


----------



## sanj

Right well i took some rough and ready PAR readings and they do vary as might be expected with the t5s running doen the centre of the tank in only a 10" or so wide pendant.

Lighting regime at the moment is:

15:30 - 23:30 (8 hours) 216 watts Plant Pro

19:30 - 21:30 (2 hours) 432 watts Plant Pro + Osram 880

CO2

13:30 - 22:00 2x 5kg CO2
drop checker is light green.

Somewhat scary is the amount of PAR at 100% lighting, baring in mind these are 18" above the water and the tank itself is 28" deep.

216w:




So broadly speaking these are ranges of PAR, higher under the centre of the pendants lower towards the ends, lower still moving away from pendants front to back. Same goes at the substrate and is lowest in the corners around 23 at lowest. Over shadowed by a plant or hardscape it can go lower even in the brightest parts of the tank.

432w:




So yeah, Ouch! ET phone home. I am thinking as with the short 1-2 hours burst with Metal Halides with T5s some people do, this wont be too much of an issue as long co2 and nutrients are plenty. 

Oh and I wont be making the mistake of my 2006 disaster aka Tank of Death. Ever since 00:00 to 12:00 O2 Pump on.


----------



## sanj

Well at least it is in the right ball park, it is actually a smidge lighter green than this...every now and then my camera tells little white elephants.






A slight sidetrack, this is somthing else in the offing; "Project Nano Porn."



 

I could not find it in the UK so ended up shipping it from Allemagne. It will house my small tribe of Psuedomugil gertrudae "Eubenangee Swamp". The reason being I also keep the P.gertrudae "Aru II" and I can not mix them otherwise they will hybridise; rotten hybrid rainbows infest the commercial trade unfortunately.


----------



## sanj

Its been a long while since I started a new new scape, but Im just wondering should I be expecting pearling from Crypts and ferns at this stage? Im not seeing any. I get the feeling the plants are adjusting, there is a bit crypt melt, oh and those poor Bolbitus did not fare well being out of water if damp for several hours. I had cut all the dwarf hair grass to approx 1" before planting so now I can see alot of die off, but also some bright green leaves. These are the ones that will push forward and  grow.


----------



## ceg4048

sanj said:
			
		

> ...but Im just wondering should I be expecting pearling from Crypts and ferns at this stage? Im not seeing any. I get the feeling the plants are adjusting, there is a bit crypt melt...


Mate I wouldn't worry too much about pearling at this point. The melting is a warning that your have less than perfect CO2. I reckon the PAR readings you have on the first photo is fine for the first few months.

Cheers,


----------



## sanj

Ah Clive,

I was hoping you would have a look at my journal particularly re lighting and co2. I think that the holding tank that the plants were with no fauna (for most of the time) had a hell of a lot of co2 pumped in, i just transfered one of the tetra tecs that was on the old 8x2x2 and co2 was at the same rate but down to a 180 litre, think that change may have affected the plants. The whole waiting thing was much longer than expected, overall think plants suffered a bit.


----------



## sanj

flow as in linear is not exactly happening on this tank chiefly because of the Vortechs staggered on either end, however overall turnover is pretty high as mentioned earlier, hope this will over come any downsides to not being linear.


----------



## danmil3s

hi sanj think it goes with out saying the tank is amazing i was just wondering about you lighting/PAR photos in the second shot are you using Metal Halides or just T5s


----------



## sanj

Hi danmil3s,

they are 8x T5, no MH. MH were a contender (mainly for shimmer), but in the end went with just T5s. They are in two ATI units. The second photo is with all 8 tubes on, the first with just 4.


----------



## danmil3s

thanks sanj i have 4 t5 54w run front to back on my tank so it nice to know thats what sort of par id get seems to be high light


----------



## sanj

danmil3s said:
			
		

> thanks sanj i have 4 t5 54w run front to back on my tank so it nice to know thats what sort of par id get seems to be high light



Hi just another thing to note, different pendants might give different ratings. When researching I found that pendants like the ATI use active cooling (fans) on them to help maintain temperature of the tubes within certain boundaries which in turn helps maintain PAR values. On some passive cooled pendants people have found that high temps have an impact on the PAR output of the tubes and it can deteriorate over a short period of time.

Even if you have passive cooled pendants and even if the T5 tubes have deteriorted in regard to PAR you will  still have a high light tank because you dont want the high readings I am getting with all tubes on (not for a 8-10 hour photoperiod). If you get 30-40 at substrate it is apparently plenty for light demanding plants as others have shown.


----------



## danmil3s

that's interesting ive no direct  cooling didnt realise it made a difference but it makes sense im using hagen glows under a hood and they get very hot so maybe my lights not as high as i thought but still t5 so still good i might have a look see if i can diy some thing to cool them would love fast growth like to see things change


----------



## sanj

ATIs are more sort after in the reef hobby because hard corals often demand high PAR values of 250-400, however plants in freshwater aquaria do not need anything near that. As you might know the higher the PAR the greater the dosing of co2 and nutrients are required and smaller margin for error.


----------



## danmil3s

yes i know higher light higher  ferts but i like to play do you know what the maxim par at sub straight would be not that id go that far just want to get the best out of what ive paid for


----------



## plantbrain

I'd just run the outer bulbs and then only the 4. No midday burst. No need.

You find out you have too much light the hard way.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Gill

sanj said:
			
		

> Well at least it is in the right ball park, it is actually a smidge lighter green than
> A slight sidetrack, this is somthing else in the offing; "Project Nano Porn."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I could not find it in the UK so ended up shipping it from Allemagne. It will house my small tribe of Psuedomugil gertrudae "Eubenangee Swamp". The reason being I also keep the P.gertrudae "Aru II" and I can not mix them otherwise they will hybridise; rotten hybrid rainbows infest the commercial trade unfortunately.




Doh, they sell these and other dennerle ranges at waterlife freasley. me and steve saw them on our mini meet with andyh


----------



## sanj

what the 60l ones?


----------



## sanj

In the last couple of weeks before the tank arrived I put some of my Melanotaenia Aru II in the holding tank with the plants in. Over the last couple of days I have fry in the main tank. Tried to catch some to put into my breeding tank with the others, but is not so easy catching 3-4mm long fish in such a tank.


----------



## sanj

plantbrain said:
			
		

> I'd just run the outer bulbs and then only the 4. No midday burst. No need.
> 
> You find out you have too much light the hard way.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr



Hi, on your 180 scape you started off with 3x150 HQI and 4x96 (compacts?). This must have been pretty intense. Your journal is now very long, but how did you end up lighting it; just with the 4x96w?

I do use salvinia natans in my tanks and it ends up screening some of the light, but at the moment there is very little of it. The full light period was for aesthetics/colur rendition aswell, but I have turned them off at least until biomass has increased significantly. The tubes are staggered in that they are ordered first and third or 2nd and 4th, but there is only a small difference in PAR readings from front and back of the tank.


----------



## Gill

sanj said:
			
		

> what the 60l ones?



Yep they stock both sizes and alot of dennerle equipment.


----------



## sanj

Gill said:
			
		

> sanj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what the 60l ones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep they stock both sizes and alot of dennerle equipment.
Click to expand...



Ok,  I could only find 10L and 30L sizes which were too small for my needs.


----------



## sanj

Im guessing my co2 is ok reic a few posts ago. That drop checker was in the top left corner of the tank. I have placed another on the diagonal end; bottom right and it is also similar green. I guess that one way of checking for reasonably even co2 distrubution.


----------



## Shivers

Wow 1600 litre's I'm jealous! Seriously though it's looking great, love the stand also, enjoy it!


----------



## Garuf

Hows it coming along, Sanj?


----------



## chrisfraser05

I really wish I could have seen the pics in this thread  I'm at work at the mo so I'll have a look next chance I get.

This tank really does sound amazing though! Keep it up


----------



## sanj

Hi all, thanks for the comments.

Things are happening, but slowly. I kina thought I would have had somthing of a lawn of hairgrass, but its growing slowly. I guess a month and a bit is asking too much.

There was some die back on the bolbitis and crypts but new leaves are growing now. I mentioned before a few M. Aru II eggs must have been introduced with the plants. There are 11 fry about 1cm long now, growing better than in my breeding tank.

I will update when things have grown a bit more. I have taken some pics, but its hard to tell alot of diffence from a distance.


----------



## sanj

I havent updated in a while mainly because the settling in period has been pretty slow. Found out how long my co2 lasts in this tank today...about 2 months, well one bottle is empty and the other still diffusing.

Hairgrass is being lazy and growing slowly...where is my lush carpet hairgrass?!!!

Algae issues... smallish ones, but i have seen small amounts of BBA and what maybe cladphora, small amount of thread algae. I have 3 drop checkers at different places in the tank and until today they were light green/yellow green.

33% water changes a week seems doable, down from 50% on my last tank, but I think this level is ok with EI...isnt it? 

Melanotaenia Aru II rainbow fry growing faster than in my breeding tank, currently around 0.5", another reason I have not added any other fish yet. I intend to travel to Belgium in a few weeks to purchase some good rainbow lines from reputable breeders. lol even Heiko Bleher might be happy with me. Well I say that but he seems to only like biotypes and well mine is not, but the fish will be looked after well. I will also be maintaining a few pure/good lines of these wonderful fish.

Anyway enough rambling... dont expect anything amazing, its all been rather slow.

*Week 4* this is what is looked like after die back from some plants (Bolbitus mainly):











Comparing Week 1 with Week 8
*
Week 1*



*
Week 8*




Sorry about the distraction in the right corner that is a nano at the back of the room holding the 'Eubangee Swamp' strain of P.gertrudae.

I think from a photo point of view being able to see from both sides isnt aestheticaslly wonderfull, but in real life in the position of a room divide it makes more sense. Oh and that stem plant whajamacallit?? erm erm name escapes me eustralis i think, yup needs to behind the java fern maybe. Im just getting things growing though, these plants deteriorated quite badly in the couple of months they were in holding.

I think it will take a good few months yet for this one to mature and as fate would have it I might be moving in the next 12-18 months...   I dont like the idea of ripping this down and transporting it.


----------



## viktorlantos

very nice tank in this huge size. congrate mate! the left wood with the plants, rocks gravels looks so natural. 
i love that part!  

too bad the right wood looks a bit strange the current way.


----------



## Gill

Stunning Sanj, this is going to be one hell of a tank.


----------



## sanj

Yeah its a difficult one, I cant raise it because of the root buttresses will stick out looking just as bad and raisng the substrate wont work from a perspective point of view. Its a pretty tough hard wood can barely hack in to it. If i removed it the whole scape will look imbalanced, but maybe that is an option.


----------



## JamesM

Awesome Sanj. Not fussed on the one side also, but the wood on the right could be removed and you'd still have a truly epic scape mate


----------



## LondonDragon

Just keeps getting better, tanks this size really need to be viewed in person, do you sell tickets yet?
A video would be nice  Congrats on the monster project.


----------



## Mark Webb

Looking great sanj. The main trunk is a superb piece but for me the wood on the right could come out.


----------



## neelhound

I agree with mark, Its awesome but is there any way of rasing the wood on the right?


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Awesome. Would give an arm and a leg to see it real in few months. At the first photo with less plants and milky water the right piece looked more in place than now and could definetely be fixed to look good again and it definitely does look good in person. The left one is so great already...  as am option i'd be tempted to remove it and extend the right side root system of the main feature   though 
Superb creation


----------



## Gill

Sanj, One thing i was wondering was. How come you never bought any of the stumps Rob had, he was getting rid of them very cheap. I know in the end he had to throw alot of things out as they did not sell.


----------



## theDiver

Wow lovely tank 

How much does such a tank cost to buy?

Just the tank ?


----------



## jay

Really amazing sense of scale. Personally, I really don't see a problem with the right side hardscape. 
Regarding the hairgrass? Perhaps adding echinodorus tenelus(sp?) to it would help fill it out more. Would also add to the general look of the 'scape, more in keeping with the natural, jungle look. 

Really a great tank. Good stuff.


----------



## sanj

You know if I was the right stump, id be feeling quite bad at the moment...  the ugly sibling. lol

I was looking at a phone pic i took when only the hardscape was in and the right tree fitted in pretty well, but it is amazing how things change. In person though the right really does not look particularly out of place.

Ive got to think about it though. I always become more reluctant to move things when plants start to grow in and establish, but some of you guys dont seem to have an issue with that.

Half of me wants to go with you and remove the right, but also part of me wants to see how it develops as over time things can change quite a bit. I think a low laying piece could work also, but it is difficult finding the right kind of wood. When i found these two stumps, there was no choice, it was just these two. 

Its good to get opinions, so thank you all for that.


----------



## sanj

jay said:
			
		

> Really amazing sense of scale. Personally, I really don't see a problem with the right side hardscape.
> Regarding the hairgrass? Perhaps adding echinodorus tenelus(sp?) to it would help fill it out more. Would also add to the general look of the 'scape, more in keeping with the natural, jungle look.
> 
> Really a great tank. Good stuff.




Hi Jay, funny enough there was a single surviving plantlet of e.tennelus, it is on the left side near the staurogene. It has been sending out runners, but it has grown to 6" leaves and not low. The PAR at that location is 30-40, which i thought would be enough for low growth. I think though for the position of  much of the hairgrass  PAR is even lower like 23-30 and this is probbaly the bigger reason for the slow growth. It definately is growing just a lot slower than I am used to. I am going to leave the e.tennelus to see what it does, i think like you say will contribute well to a jungle feel.



> How much does such a tank cost to buy?



A lot really...definatly  between 2 to 3 with three zeros on the end. It is a alot of money, its got to be with me for a life time (he says now), although you never know with this hobby. Meh but here come the excuses.. er I dont spend my money on cigerattes, alcohol and fast cars... lol

I do want to get a decent camera and learn how to photo fish. Ill be seeking advice from some of you guys.   




> Sanj, One thing i was wondering was. How come you never bought any of the stumps Rob had, he was getting rid of them very cheap. I know in the end he had to throw alot of things out as they did not sell.



Robin's stump is Lisa's territory im not going there... ok but im guessing you mean bogwood which isnt really going to have the same impact, otherwise I wasnt aware if he had any amazing pieces.


----------



## Gill

Ok, Ohh have you been to the Tree Surgeon near Browns Lane, He gets Loads of Interesting Stumps and Wood in His Job. Was Talking to him thru work.


----------



## sanj

So folks, Sanjarami/Rainbow Haven/The Denisoni Lounge/Stupid Log on the right... (what ever takes your fancy) is continuing on its evolution.

I have not made any drastic hardscape changes, right tree is still a ?, but then The Green Man did come to me in a dream and made his feelings clear about any intention I had of felling his tree...again.

As you might know, my shoddy camera skills have been in action trying to capture photos of fish, so yes there is some motile inhabitants beyond infuria, snails oh and those nasty leeches which i think are now gone.





Looking back im quite surprised at the growth, you dont notice is so much when seeing the tank nearly every day.





Thanks for taking the time to look.


----------



## a1Matt

Fookin' awesome.


----------



## Mark Evans

I've got to say, this is incredible. 

possibly, one of the best scapes out their at the moment, in my very honest opinion.

Sanj, if you ever want a hand taking pics, I'd love to come   8)


----------



## sanj

Wow thanks guys,




			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> I've got to say, this is incredible.
> 
> possibly, one of the best scapes out their at the moment, in my very honest opinion.
> 
> Sanj, if you ever want a hand taking pics, I'd love to come   8)



Im so very flattered Mark, but I cant see it as one of the best, it would be great if it was, but I dont know I think its hard to to balance detail in large tanks, like there is too much to see. I get why some go for bold.

It would be great if you could come and take quality pics, he he, you could give me some tips too.   

You are most welcome.


----------



## Garuf

Make it a ukaps get together? I'd love to see your rainbows, they're swiftly becoming my favourite fish.


----------



## Mark Evans

sanj said:
			
		

> but I cant see it as one of the best,



It's up there mate, trust me. I was one of the doubters, with the right side, but it's starting to work now. 

The whole look is just cracking, For me at least, this is my fave tank. 

when do you reckon it'll be ready? I will, if you ask, come over.dont rush, or panic though


----------



## Gill

Don't be so humble, It is a stunning tank. Another + for a meet up, would make for a great day/evening.


----------



## sanj

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> sanj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but I cant see it as one of the best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's up there mate, trust me. I was one of the doubters, with the right side, but it's starting to work now.
> 
> The whole look is just cracking, For me at least, this is my fave tank.
> 
> when do you reckon it'll be ready? I will, if you ask, come over.dont rush, or panic though
Click to expand...

 

I would really like you to come over, also other people too if they want to. I think it needs more time to mature though, i think you can see that it is not fully carpetted yet. I have lowered the lights about 6 inches this could be a mistake, but there was alot of glare previously.

Right stump has always been a little awkward, but i think like you say it is improving. I am hoping the ferns (bolbitis and java) will develop more to give a better impression. It is also not as black as it appears. Who knows, ill be moving house hopefully in a year or so, it wont be a room divide then but against a wall, so this scape is for learning and the next well we will see.

Apologies for the annoying shake on this video, but i was not used to taking a video with this camera and it was a littel jerky. I kept the video because I caught the rubrostriata sparing with each other.




This one is more controlled, i just uploaded it so the music has not installed yet, lol the co2 bubbling out the spray bar makes it sound as if i have a budgie in the house. No displaying rainbows boo. However the RTBS was in a right mardy. He particularly dislikes the Reticulated Algae Eater (Crossocheilus reticulatus) .


----------



## John Starkey

Hi Sanj,freekin awesome dude,like Mark says it,s certainly up there with some of the best ive seen,

by the way i too would love to come and take some quality pics of this tank,worcester isn,t too far from cov   ,
regards,
john.


----------



## a1Matt

:text-+1:  for the meet up.

Although as it is a bit of a trek (3 1/2 hr drive each way) I would prefer to wait until it is more fully grown in before making the trip.


----------



## Mark Webb

Looking great sanj, well done


----------



## mrjackdempsey

OMG What a inspiration!!!!!


----------



## ghostsword

This has to be one of the best tanks and journals I have ever seen. Great job, just fantastic.


----------



## George Farmer

Inspirational, sanj.  

Congratulations on a remarkable aquarium and aquascape!  This has to be one of the most impressive privately owned planted tanks in the UK at the moment.

Would you be interested in being interviewed and having a photo shoot for PFK magazine?


----------



## George Farmer

Just watched the videos.  Brilliant.

My only niggle is fish selection with the Red tail black shark and your Reticulated algae eaters.  RTBS are notoriously agressive with Crossocheilus sp.  Thankfully the tank is large enough to help!

I can see this evolving into something really incredible.  We're talking Top 27 IAPLC standard in the longer-term, especially with the right photo.


----------



## Mark Evans

George Farmer said:
			
		

> We're talking Top 27 IAPLC standard in the longer-term



just what i was thinking.


----------



## misscaretaker

I've just read this from start to finish and all I can say is "wow"! I've had trouble trying to make my 220l tank look decent due to it's size and have no idea where I would begin with something that size! You've inspired me to break the 220l tank down and start again, but not 'til I've finished playing with the 120l!
I love the rainbows to, I have the Dwarf Neons in my 220l and along with my pencilfish they are by far my favourite fish. I'd lve some of the smaller ones but not while I still have a fully grown Angel in there!


----------



## jay

Stunning tank. It's become everything I imagined it could be and more! A bit more growing and 'scaping and this would definitely make some waves in any aquascaping competion.


----------



## sanj

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Just watched the videos.  Brilliant.
> 
> My only niggle is fish selection with the Red tail black shark and your Reticulated algae eaters.  RTBS are notoriously agressive with Crossocheilus sp.  Thankfully the tank is large enough to help!
> 
> I can see this evolving into something really incredible.  We're talking Top 27 IAPLC standard in the longer-term, especially with the right photo.



Hello, it would be great if you wanted to do an article, I just thought the tank needs to mature a little more for about 2 months or so. 

I am really surprised you guys are suggesting IAPLC!! I was pretty downhearted a couple of months ago thinking im still nowhere near ready to produce the kind of scapes people do in that competition. The Chinese, Japanese and people from E.Europe are amazing. I guess we will have to see, let it mature a bit and maybe with the right photo lol. 

Regarding the RTBs and the Crossocheilus, these have been together since the begining of 2008 and yes the RTBS does not like it when it is in close vacinity, it is a little less bothered with the other siamensis. The chasing is not constant though, its more of 'get out of my patch' the algae eater does not actually seem to be too concerned, in that once chased for a few seconds he immediately settles into his normal routine.  If it was relentless harassment, there is no way I would keep the RTBS. The video was taken about half an hour after feeding and the RTBS was claiming and area where some pellets were.

One thing I do appreciate, but which I have not done here is the one or two large shoals of fish. Instead I have a real mix of different rainbow species and denisoni barbs. I think the former creates a very serene more natural impression, the latter is more chaotic. The thing is as I have mentioned already I am pretty keen on rainbows and this larger tank was created in part to be able to house a pool of breeding stock. The junglesque scape I thought would be be complementary. Having said that this isnt exactly chaotic jungle.


----------



## jay

I completely understand the idea of catering for a favoured selection of fish rather than having the usual standard shoal of one species. Its much more fun as a fish keeper to watch the interactions between different species.

Although, for a full tank shot for competition... can you imagine a massive wave of cardinal tetras or harlequins shoaling through the trees!??!


----------



## sanj

Thanks for all the positive comments guys, it is a really nice feeling to know that several people think you have produced somthing to a reasonably good standard, but when you think about it all we do is arrange things, set the stage so to speak and nature does the rest.

I think some of us are thinking on the same lines, it needs a bit longer.

Oh and the other thing is ill be going away for a couple of weeks so im thinking cut the lighting down to 6 hours? with no full lighting periods ( i curently have 2 hours in the evening 100% tubes) and raise the pendants back as high as they will go. Im a chuck in the dry ferts neat kind of guy. i dont use dosing pumps. Ill blame Clive for that lol. He has provided me with so much of the 'how to do it easier' tech stuff over the last few years. So two weeks low lights and no dosing... should be ok... i think.


----------



## sanj

> Although, for a full tank shot for competition... can you imagine a massive wave of cardinal tetras or harlequins shoaling through the trees!??!



Totally, that would be amazing. im thinking of Graeme Edward's tank at TGM with the massive shoals of Rasbora. That should be an IAPLC submission for sure. Actually before Graeme's rescape that tank used to have a mass of Rainbows aswell.


----------



## George Farmer

sanj said:
			
		

> Hello, it would be great if you wanted to do an article, I just thought the tank needs to mature a little more for about 2 months or so.


Agreed; no rush.  We'll keep in touch... 

Good luck with the two weeks away.  Such a big tank should remain stable enough in your absence, especially with the proposed drop in lighting.  I assume there's nothing in there which is too demanding of light?

Keep up the great work.


----------



## Arana

Wow stunning work


----------



## sanj

Thanks very much Arana. 



> I assume there's nothing in there which is too demanding of light?



Luckily no, 90% Crypts and ferns so hopefully should weather the lean period ok.


----------



## flygja

Goodness! The amount of life going on in there is truly awe-inspiring! 

George will need to pack a whole load of strobe lights to shoot that tank  8)


----------



## LondonDragon

Impressive, one of the best tanks I have seen in a long time, just will get better, keep us posted


----------



## sanj

The Staurogyne thicket on the left hand side of the tank seems to be underattack by somthing, there is now a empty patch with only stems and the top few leaves. One or two crypt leaves in the vacinity also seem to have holes. The lates addition to the tank were 12 dwarf chain loaches, but i have not heard of or seen them shredding/eating the leaves. I look after lights out and have seen a few baby ramshorn snails, but that is it. Anyone had their Staurogyene in a similar situation?


----------



## switch01252

can we have a update with pictures please


----------



## Mark*

Lovely tank Sanj, the thread has been a great read, the tank is just stunning.

Mark


----------



## nry

Always love such large aquariums - the feeling of being there is so much better when the water expanse is that big


----------



## ChilliPepper

This is truly amazing - are there any updated photos?


----------



## Gill

Sanj is a little busy ATM, moving soon, so i should expect an update once he is settled into the new place.


----------



## sanj

Yup sorry guys, I am going to have to take this aprt in a few months..not looking forward to moving this.
I have not taken anymore photos becuase while it is still ticking over, its a little overgrown and I have this move on the back of my mind (its actually in a couple of months or so), but it takes away the incentive to continue a develop a tank that only going ot have to taken apart.

Come august ill be putting it back together again... :S


----------



## Johno2090

Good luck!


----------



## George Farmer

sanj said:
			
		

> Yup sorry guys, I am going to have to take this aprt in a few months..not looking forward to moving this.
> I have not taken anymore photos becuase while it is still ticking over, its a little overgrown and I have this move on the back of my mind (its actually in a couple of months or so), but it takes away the incentive to continue a develop a tank that only going ot have to taken apart.
> 
> Come august ill be putting it back together again... :S


All the best with the move, sanj.  

I think it's a good idea to 'overgrow' the plants before the move.  Then, if you want to do a different layout, you should have plenty more scope.


----------



## sanj

Yeah, I think like you said in your other post (or was that Mark) the materials can get ludicrously expensive on large tanks. I have to really think about what I want to do, it might be similar on all likely hood. In a long tank im not sure how many options i have to position two tree stumps. So largely ill be using the same materials.

I might be pleading for some input on scape design from you guys.


----------



## Alastair

How did the move go sanj? Did you get this beast of a tank up and running again?


----------



## sanj

Alastair said:
			
		

> How did the move go sanj? Did you get this beast of a tank up and running again?



Hi, yes thanks. I had to have a window removed to get it in though   . It has been up for a month or so waiting for the plants to grow in. Its not a huge change from before in terms of scaping, just tweaking. A little untidy around the edges due to die back from older growth during the move. 

Its not ready for photos quite yet. Aspect has changed slightly in that now it is at one end of the room instead of the middle and viewable only from the front.

Not having much fun with Limpopo sand substrate... the grey particles seem to turn white. Not nearly the black/dark grey substrate i thought it was meant to be.


----------



## Alastair

a window removed? bet that wasnt cheap ha ha.

ive read that on another forum somewhere about the limpopo changing colour, cant remeber where i saw it now. Are you sticking with the sand then?


----------



## whatok

magnificent. 

good luck with your move.


----------



## sanj

Alastair said:
			
		

> a window removed? bet that wasnt cheap ha ha.
> 
> ive read that on another forum somewhere about the limpopo changing colour, cant remeber where i saw it now. Are you sticking with the sand then?



Yes i think so because the plants have been growing in for a month or so and it would not be an easy process to remove it.  However i want to cap it to darken the substrate and the only thing I can find is dennerle quartz sand that comes close. I think there is somthing strange with the latest batch of Limpopo sand, it doesnt seem to be inert as it should probably be and on its own raises the water hardness.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Hey Sanj, amazing tank, really looking forward to seeing it in its new home.  Did the PFK article with George and Marks photo shoot  ever happen or did the move interupt those plans..?


----------



## sanj

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Hey Sanj, amazing tank, really looking forward to seeing it in its new home.  Did the PFK article with George and Marks photo shoot  ever happen or did the move interupt those plans..?



No unfortunately, initially the tank had not been established long enough and then I was away and then the prospect of moving arose.

However I hope I dont have to move again in the near future and this tank should have the opportunity to settle in and mature.


----------



## Alastair

I can't wait to see pics of it running. I loved this tank and wished I had room for such a monster


----------



## sanj

Ok well, its kind of become a bit of jungle and perhaps needs some selective trimming. Actually a jungle is what i want, rainbows suit it better than pristine aquascapes, just a jungle with some structure.

I do like how "nature" can take over an do its own thing, very different from how I originally envisaged. Photos do hide a lot and one can see more of the tree trunks in person. 

The Rainbow Haven in its (not so) new location:






It's a whole new world up here...Mr stumpy grows a bush:





Still the fish seem to like it, they also like eating bits of it...RIP hairgrass lawn.


----------



## justjason88

simply amazing sanj, congratulations on achieving such a beautiful tank


----------



## flygja

Must be breathtaking in the flesh!


----------



## Mark Webb

Looking great sanj


----------



## awtong

Just read this from start to finish   

What a tank, and moving house too!  I was worried about moving my 450l what a wuss I am   

Andy


----------



## sanj

Moving house with huge tanks is not a fun experiance...very stressful, but worth it in the end. I just do not want to have to move for a very long time.


----------



## JenCliBee

Simply WOW!!!


----------



## Ian Holdich

stunning Sanj! You have some skills mate!


----------



## Westyggx

Looks awsome bud!


----------



## Ady34

Mightily impressive, and an incredible effort moving it all....but worth it like you said.
Would be nice to see some detailed shots too.
Is the red tailed black shark still a resident?
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## webworm

Absolutely amazing. I assume solid floors throughout ?


----------



## George Farmer

Incredible.


----------



## darren636

gobsmacked. what an  epic setup, love the emerged growth.


----------



## sanj

Thanks George.

Yes solid concrete floors this time around, apparently some people think I bought the house for the tank.   

RTBS is still going strong. A lot of literature speak of them getting more aggressive with age, but that really isnt the case with this one, seems to have mellowed more.

Only four torpedos left, all mature 6"ers, sad thing is one of them is doing the fast till death thing. I have seen this happen a few times with this species. They stop eating, seperate from the group and hover in amongst the plants for months on end until finally they are too weak and die. Any ideas??


----------



## manikmonk

Fantastic tank, can't imagine the effort to move it. I worried over redecorating the living room and having to move my 125 litre tank... Great work!


----------



## Antipofish

Sanj, have just finished reading from start to finish.  Cant say anything that has not been said a hundred times already, but WOW !  Keep us posted with pics and maybe another video when you get the chance ?


----------



## Gill

Absolutely Stunning Sanj, When Can I come over and Ogle it.


----------



## Greenview

Glad you got it moved ok. It looks fantastic, Sanj. 

I know what you mean about Hairgrass, one of my female bows has a real taste for it and uproots loads of it.


----------



## LondonDragon

One if not the best on here  congrats, would love to see more photos, some close up shots and a video too! Come on spoil us  

Great work it looks awesome


----------



## darren636

it is a top piece of work. My next tank will be open top for sticky out growing plants


----------



## sanj

Thanks for the comments guys, alot of room for improvement, but this is a long term planted tank so as the plants grow I gradually "sculpt" havent done it for a while partly becuase I am playing the game of which plants can I grow and dont get pulled up and eaten by rainbows. Tring Marsilea at the moment in place of hairgrass. 

Seriously they will eat whole hair grass plants even up to 6" long, it will then come out the other end almost intact. Well at least they will have clean intestines. 

When i look back at past pictures I sometimes prefer seeing wider expanses of hairgrass, but at the same time high stocking density of rainbows and given thier shape and behaviour seem to suit more dense planting. What do you guys think? Rainbows except for some blue-eye species (maybe) would not suit the likes of an Iwagumi so well.

Gill, you are welcome to pop over.

Antipofish, thank you I did not see your initial message until I looked on my emails, my inbox on here was full.

I will post a video update at some point, still have fish logistics to sort out.



> I know what you mean about Hairgrass, one of my female bows has a real taste for it and uproots loads of it.



I am glad it is not just me, these guys are real opportunists. Still i am glad they can behave with most of my plants.


----------



## sanj

Attempted a video update, not too happy with the picture quality.

Transitions afoot on the forest floor... Marsilea and Staurogyene as well as some hydrocotyle.

As I keep saying, larger rainbows can be a bit of a challenge with some soft leaved plants. There is still some downoi growing, strong root growth, but foliage thoroughly chopped down to the stems.


----------



## Westyggx

Nice vid, lots of fish


----------



## Alastair

Looks amazing sanj, loved this tank right from when you set it up 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonDragon

Rainbow heaven my kind of tank, looks stunning, congrats


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Amazing sanj, thing i love about this tank is after your initial hardwork of plant selection, set up etc it now looks like nature has taken over and created a true nature aquarium.
Just stunning.

You also get the award for UKAPS's longest spraybar


----------



## Ady34

Stunning display, my son just loved watching the 'bish' as he calls them..... i loved it too!


----------



## fandango

What an amazing tank! I could sit there for hours in front of it. Wonderful fish too- so much movement, life and energy! I do love the fact that there is a tree growing in the middle of it all as well   
Great!


----------



## Antipofish

Beautiful.  Just beautiful.  And it has made me want more rainbows grrr.  I was reading about some that only get to about 3" the other day.  Not Praecox.  They were lake dwelling rainbows, and quite colourful.  I thought I had saved to favourites but cannot find the ruddy  link now.  Don't suppose from that awful description you know which ones I mean from the hundreds of types there are Sanj ?

EDIT:  Found the info.  It was Melanotaenia Parve from Lake Kurumoi


----------



## creg

stunning tank, this could be on show somewhere. would hate to do water changes on a tank that size tho


----------



## LondonDragon

creg said:
			
		

> would hate to do water changes on a tank that size tho


I am sure he thought of that when he purchased the house for the tank


----------



## sanj

Thanks for the kind comments (and any others I will taken constructively ).

Regarding water changes, its not a problem really, hose+pump+tap. This tank initself is not a problem just remembering to keep an eye on it when filling.. It is other other 1500 litres that makes it more work! 

Antipofish (what does that name mean? somthing Antipodean...), anyway yes M.parva is a medium sized species and one that is available occasionally in the UK, ive seen it in a few places. Just to let you know the males are not red all day, they can be rather washed out for much of the time, but colour up nicely usually in the morning or lights on period. Gradually change colours through out the day while others rainbows and change thier colours almost instantly.

It is a nice fish.

Oh yeah, several people have accused me of buying the house for the fish including nearest and dearest...almost meant moving wasnt going to happen at one point..."Do you love me or the B***** fish tank!?" 

It was a consideration, I will admit.


----------



## Antipofish

Hi Sanj.  Thanks for the info   Antipofish.  Lol, I lived "down under" for a while hence the "antipo" from antipodean and I love fish.  Simples   Can u recommend other rainbows of same size ?  I have three dwarf neons at the moment.  the male is a nice colour and there are two females (though i think the second one might be a male)


----------



## sanj

There are a few species, but a lot of them not available overhere yet, but I do have many species not available in the uk, just time and space to breed them as well as cracking the breeding technique to raise larger numbers. 

Muccullochis, Papuae I have seen for sale here. Sexlineata  and pygmae are other Melanotids, but I have not seen it for sale here. I have them, but need to breed them successfully.

Have you also looked at Blue-eyes? Psuedomugil furcatus is quite a robust fish that should be fine with Dwarf Neons. I also keep P. gertrudae which is a little more delicate, but seemingly fine with them.


----------



## faizal

Hi Sanj,..I have no words to describe your amazing tank. Are you still running them with your cannister filters? I can only imagine the amount of maintanence that you might be doing in keeping it in tip top shape. 

Could you be kind enough to show us the some pics of how you've set up your spray bars, powerheads,etc please? One of those water changes snaps  . Some snaps of what's going on under the cabinet please  

I am absolutely awed by the scale of your project. The maintanence that you're probably putting into this   ,.....absolutely no words come to mind.

Congratulations.


----------



## mario

I've seen your tank featured in the last PFK: absolutely magnificent, you must be proud!!!


----------



## Alastair

mario said:
			
		

> I've seen your tank featured in the last PFK: absolutely magnificent, you must be proud!!!



Which edition? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sr20det

mario said:
			
		

> I've seen your tank featured in the last PFK: absolutely magnificent, you must be proud!!!




Saw this yesterday, well done, good article. Awesome tank.


----------



## sr20det

Alastair said:
			
		

> mario said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen your tank featured in the last PFK: absolutely magnificent, you must be proud!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which edition?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Sept, mine got delivered yesterday. Not sure when its in shops.


----------



## Danny

Wow! Just read through this, amazing tank mate and those bits of wood    I had a 8x2x18 so have an idea of how big this is but it has to been seen to get the full impact!! Well done with this monster!!


----------



## Ady34

Alastair said:
			
		

> mario said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen your tank featured in the last PFK: absolutely magnificent, you must be proud!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which edition?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

September issue, not out in the shops yet.

Great to see another UKAPS member featured in PFK Sanj, havnt had time to read the article yet but very much looking forward to it. Congratulations   
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## mrjackdempsey

Congratulations on a lovely tank and getting it featured in PFK, looks awesome. Trouble is now we expect bigger and better and frankly don't know how you can do that!!!! Again well done


----------



## sanj

I had not seen these posts, thanks very much guys. I noticed on Friday they had posted a video on the PFK website. Its a bit strange seeing your tank in a magazine.


----------



## Little-AL

Its a great write up Sanj! Really nice bit of acclaim following your hard work


----------



## sr20det

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWOHyntX ... e=youtu.be


----------



## Alastair

Sweet vid clip, even got to see an update on the under stairs tank too. 

What's the emmersed plant in the big tank sanj 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Antipofish

Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?



I would have thought anyone would struggle to get a tank 10 times longer in their house


----------



## sr20det

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would have thought anyone would struggle to get a tank 10 times longer in their house
Click to expand...


Not sure if that was sarcasm, lol, but I think he meant video length, Nath


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

sr20det said:
			
		

> Whitey89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would have thought anyone would struggle to get a tank 10 times longer in their house
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not sure if that was sarcasm, lol, but I think he meant video length, Nath
Click to expand...


I can categorically clarify that was sarcasm


----------



## sr20det

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> I can categorically clarify that was sarcasm



Man, you got mad skills,   not a hint of it there  , but then I know your one for TDis in your water.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Haha


----------



## sanj

Thanks all,



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?




the make is "custom al la Sanj". No, the tank itself is Acrylic and made by Neptunes Acrylic manufacturing. The base unit is my father design, with my input. It is basically like the larger tank; steel frame and clad.


----------



## Antipofish

sanj said:
			
		

> Thanks all,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful vid. If only it was ten times longer, I could watch it for ages   What make/model is the smaller tank Sanj ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the make is "custom al la Sanj". No, the tank itself is Acrylic and made by Neptunes Acrylic manufacturing. The base unit is my father design, with my input. It is basically like the larger tank; steel frame and clad.
Click to expand...


Well it looks bloody professional Sanj


----------



## George Farmer

Wonderful to see this featured in PFK. One of the best reader visits ever IMO.

Well done, Sanj!


----------



## LondonDragon

Got an update of this tank? you should post some more videos! Just love rainbows and this is my ideal tank!


----------



## Alastair

^ I second that ^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Webb

Only just seen this sanj, tanks are exquisite sanj - well done.


----------



## killi69

Yes update please! And Forest's Edge tank as well. You cant keep it all to yourself!


----------



## Ravenswing

The tank really knocks me out, just amazing! Iv been watching _M parva _at my LFS, they look like "nothing" there but you got me thinking by telling how they change their colours from morning to evening. Sounds fantastic. Id like to see pics of your _P gertrudae_  `Aru II´s, pls pls pls!


----------



## sanj

Ha ha, how did this one re-surface. lol

Thanks for the comments.

I will soon, but I have just done a lot of overdue hard pruning this week and re planted a few areas. I think overall it is very similar to the PFK article, but with some changes in plant formation.

The gerts are in my smallest display tank, I will try and photo them, they are little buggers though dont stay still long enough. I did post some photos under the fish section ages ago (Under Rainbowfish), but they were a bit blurred too. So I might end up with more blurred gerts, but I will try.


----------



## haggerstonian

Absolutely amazing tanks.  Regarding moving house.. I'm looking to buy and having the possibilities to have a large tank is def high up on the list of "features" the property should have. haha 
Love the set-up next to your staircase as well. just awesome!!!!


----------



## sanj

Not a huge amount to report, but recently has had a major thin out of Java and bolbitus fern. I have also planted some saggitaria in the substrate below the main tree (which is not easy to see in this photo). Rainbows always swim to the front when i get up of the sofa. They are in the way. lol

I sometimes wonder whether to bother Tom again for some suitable Manzanita to replace the right tree. Im not sure yet.


----------



## Alastair

sanj said:


> Not a huge amount to report, but recently has had a major thin out of Java and bolbitus fern. I have also planted some saggitaria in the substrate below the main tree (which is not easy to see in this photo). Rainbows always swim to the front when i get up of the sofa. They are in the way. lol
> 
> I sometimes wonder whether to bother Tom again for some suitable Manzanita to replace the right tree. Im not sure yet.



Awesome mate. I love this tank. I can imagine its unreal in person. Me television would be obsolete for sure if I had that.... 
Ps if your ever thinking of taking out the wood on the right give me a shout ill buy it lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## killi69

Looks fantastic Sanj. Funny your fish are getting in the way! Thank you for posting this - do share some close-ups when you take them next, it would be good to see the saggitaria. Your tank is so big, it could accommodate a little more wood as you suggest.  But it also looks great as it is


----------



## Ady34

Awesome Sanj!
and wow, a huge amount of fish, there'll never be a dull moment in there!....do they never jump? 
The scale of this thing is immense, I bet there's not a fish under 10cm! 
Surely your never gonna rip out one of those trees now.....it looks so well established, it would be heartbreaking to start over on that side.
Thanks for sharing the photo 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## LondonDragon

Thanks for the update sanj  a tank full of rainbows!! paradise!! wish I could see this in real life, must be mind blowing!!!


----------



## sanj

One of my favourate species at the moment: Melanotaenia goldiei "Timika"


----------



## s1chris

LondonDragon said:


> Thanks for the update sanj  a tank full of rainbows!! paradise!! wish I could see this in real life, must be mind blowing!!!


 
I was lucky enough to see this tank yesterday and all I can say is that it's simply stunning. Very clearly a lot of skill and time spent on this. For the first time ever I got back home and thought my tank was small!

Cheers Chris


----------



## Greenview

They are lovely fish, Sanj.


----------



## xtevo

Amazing!  I wish I have a tank like that in the living room, no need  television any more...


----------



## flygja

Superb! How about a 5 minute HD video?


----------



## Ravenswing

sanj said:


> One of my favourate species at the moment: Melanotaenia goldiei "Timika"


 
Fantastic!!

Oh, yes I know how hard is try to photo blue-eys but if you just have time and patience, it would bea really nice surprise!


----------



## sanj

I thought it might be a more fitting title... I didnt come up with it.


----------



## Garuf

Rescape?

Who said that?!

Looks great, Sanj! I'm extremely jealous of the tank and the fish!


----------



## Gill

Stunning as always Sanj, I don't suppose you have any cuttings going spare at all.


----------



## LondonDragon

One thing you never shown and I would love to see if whats inside that cabinet! Would be great to see the equipment and how its all connected


----------



## Alastair

LondonDragon said:


> One thing you never shown and I would love to see if whats inside that cabinet! Would be great to see the equipment and how its all connected



Totally agree with Paulo Sanj lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sanj

Inside, its nothing special at all.

No nice plumbing and neat electronics, just 2x externals 2x aquamas reactors (which leak every now and then  ) 2x 5kg CO2 canisters and 3 x 80l breeding tanks. It could be smartened up a bit.

I will take a photo anyway. Prepare to be unexcited!


----------



## LondonDragon

sanj said:


> I will take a photo anyway. Prepare to be unexcited!


Its good to see anyway mate, doesn't have to be all clinical to achieve great results, that's more of a reason to show it really 

BTW do you know that "Fifty Shades" has been copyrighted?


----------



## sanj

Gill said:


> Gill Active Member Online Message Count: 1,993 Stunning as always Sanj, I don't suppose you have any cuttings going spare at all


 
I recently sold a lot of plants. Depends what you are looking for there is probably somthing here and there.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

sanj said:


> Inside, its nothing special at all.
> 
> No nice plumbing and neat electronics, just 2x externals 2x aquamas reactors (which leak every now and then  ) 2x 5kg CO2 canisters and 3 x 80l breeding tanks. It could be smartened up a bit.
> 
> I will take a photo anyway. Prepare to be unexcited!



Do it


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Sanj,
your tank is very very nice !!!! 
I found your thread, because a friend and I are trying since 3 month to setup a 900 L tank here in Kinshasa.
It's a real challenge to set that kind of tank !!!! 
we are facing a tread algae problem now since 2 month, that must be a water flow problem or a CO2 distribution problem. So we are now fighting to get the flow wright, CO2 at top but he start to get tired of battling these algae !! the amount of CO2 we have to inject is very high and it very difficult to get the flow wright. 
So I wanted to say congratulation to you for your hard and marvelous work  
I wanted to know about your light now do you turn it all on (8 tubes) or you are still on 4 tubes on ??
how do you manage your water flow in that huge and beautiful tank ? do you have a rolling flow, from back to front or corner to corner ?
And what about CO2 do you have like 10 KG fire extinguisher or less ? because we have 2x10kg and after é month or so he have to refill the FE !!
what is your CO2 injection rate?

I am really sorry to ask you so many question, but you have the most beautiful big tank I have seen for long time, so i am sure that you can give me good advices for my friend.
If you want i can put you a pic of that tank.
Please continue to present us such nice work like that !!!!
keep going !!!!
             

best Regards
Zanguli


----------



## sanj

Hello Zanguli-ya-Zamba (excellent name!),

Thank you for your kind comments and I dont mind the questions.

My first thought is you are using twice the amount of CO2 I am using. I have two x 5kg. I have recently upped the injection rate because I do have Green spot algae on some of the Anubias and the Marsilea. However it lasts me 2-3months before I have to refill. Are you using a sump at all? Is there any leakage from the cylinders or is it just that you have them set at a high output. The bubbles on mine are too many to count, but I can see they are individual bubbles and not a blurred stream of CO2.

The co2 is injected into the outlet of external filters which then passes through a co2 reactor before continuing out through the spray bars. In addition to the filters are 2x power heads the movement from all is from back to front, rolling flow as you say. The lighting is raised high above the tank some 18" above the water line. It is on 4 tubes from (2 each side) from 16:30 to 23:30 and all 8 tubes from 17:30 to 22:30. A recent  check was showing 40-50 PAR at substrate with all lights on and only 20-30 with half the lights on. This is possibly because there is more vegetation in and above the tank now than before.

I dont think it necesarilly an issue to have some algae in a new tank, it should eventually diminish, but it should not be at plague levels. Is there anyway for you to dim the lights initially? Keep at it.


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Sanj,
thanks for your answer !!!
Zanguli (is the name of an evil here in congo Zabulu but we change it to zanguli) and ya Zamba means from the jungle in lingala loool
I have talk with my friend and he explains me that the tubing he is using for the CO2 are simple air tubing !!!! so I think that the leakage is coming from there !!!!
I told him also that the filter system is not good ! because he is using a system with the water coming from the tank to an other tank under it, I don't know how do you call it in english
In french we call it filtration par décante. this filtration is using a 1000 L pump. and then he have only two power head of 900 L. He is using a corner to corner flow. 
So now he want to order 4 Fluval FX 5 but I told him it's a bit too much !! what do you think about it ?
Can you explain me what is a SUMP please !!
An other think is that he have 8 x 54 W on for 8 hours ! I told him to reduce, but he doesn't want to ! at the beginning he had 12x54 w and I manage to force him to reduce it.

So do you think it's normal to have that algae after 3 month of set up ?

thanks for your time mate

best regards 
Zanguli


----------



## LondonDragon

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Can you explain me what is a SUMP please !!


its this:


zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> In french we call it filtration par décante.




You can still use a sump, you just have to seal it to prevent/minimize CO2 escaping.


----------



## plantnoob

just awe inspiring . i bet this beauty is even better in the flesh .


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi sanjeev

I have seen the article about your tank in practical fish keeping !! 
Nice to see your tank in an other place than in the ukaps journal !!!
Congrats again for your nice work mate. 
Tell me how is set up your outlet in this tank ?

Cheers 
Zanguli


----------



## thelats1981

unbelievable. I must have watched the videos 10 times and it keeps getting better! Also love the fact (should probably whisper this on _the _aquatic plant forum) that you have stayed fish orientated. I have a request, which may sound crazy given how nice the big tank is, but do you have any videos or pics of the smaller tank with the praecox in? This also looks amazing, love the pebbles and cobbles.....


----------



## t.doyle

things must get pretty hectic at feeding time..


----------



## Steve Smith

Featured on the UKAPS Facebook page!


----------



## Dan-CR4

sanj said:


> *Last saturday 08/05/2010*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below is the steel frame being bolted together:


 

Hi Sanj,
what width are the steel boxed bars? As after seeing this I am thinking of doing the same sort of cabinet and frame for a tank im getting later this year.


----------



## sanj

I think they are 40mm. I can double check later tonight.


----------



## sanj

They are 40mm on this tank. On the smaller 700 litre the bars are 30mm wide.


----------



## Dan-CR4

thanks Sanj. Then I will probably only need the 30mm, as my tank that im getting will only hold around 500 litres.


----------



## Edvet

Just found this. Not sure if it is still up, but congratulations on a very nice tank, very well done!
Lots of plants and lots of fish, just what i want!


----------



## plantbrain

I owe you a stump I recall. I have a few, PM me.


----------



## Jason Stanford

how much did the old tank cost to run? the 860 litre, as this is close to the size im getting (900)
the co2 cost mainly. ill be using the 480w lighting I already have, so the only increase I will have is the extra co2 and ferts, but as I am new to this I am worried about the co2 cost


----------



## Alastair

Jason Stanford said:


> how much did the old tank cost to run? the 860 litre, as this is close to the size im getting (900)
> the co2 cost mainly. ill be using the 480w lighting I already have, so the only increase I will have is the extra co2 and ferts, but as I am new to this I am worried about the co2 cost



Hi jason if you have a good local bottled gas supplier it should be relatively inexpensive to top up a pub gas sized bottle. If using an fe it wouldnt last too long as they dont hold much. 
On my 450 litre which I was using almost 4 watts per gallon of light using halides I was getting just short of 6 months from a 20kg 3n half foot tall cylinder and refills cost me 7.50 a time 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jason Stanford

oh wow, very little. thanks. I thought it was going to break the bank, I have a 450 litre at the moment.
I have 5wpg of t5 ho, but I have to turn two tubes off(160w) as I had algae and fish gasping,
ill slowly work on it.

a problem I have is its a piranha tank, so ottos are a no go. then  have catfish. which eats everything else.


----------



## Alastair

Jason Stanford said:


> oh wow, very little. thanks. I thought it was going to break the bank, I have a 450 litre at the moment.
> I have 5wpg of t5 ho, but I have to turn two tubes off(160w) as I had algae and fish gasping,
> ill slowly work on it.
> 
> a problem I have is its a piranha tank, so ottos are a no go. then  have catfish. which eats everything else.



I dont want to hog Sanjs thread but 5wpg is ALOT of light and if your diffusing through a jbl taifun which arent very efficient then the whopping lighting you have (which you dont need) coupled with a poor co2 diffuser will be your answer to the algae. 
Possibly lack of nutrients too. 
Fish gasping isnt a good sign either.  You need to dial up the gas slowly until drop checker reaches the desired colour and fish arent showing signs of distress.  A little water agitation helps lots too. 
Algae, poor plant growth etc will mean plants arent producing adequate oxygen either hence gasping. 
Tanks dont need huge amounts of light. Best to keep it low and have healthy plants and happy fish 

You could re consider your fish stocking too. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jason Stanford

not reconsidering the fish stock 
but I do have it only using 4 tubes of the 6 now, and my algae seems fine now. haven't noticed anymore at least.
I will have a go on your fx5 diffuser I think, otherwise I can buy these UP ones for it?


----------



## sanj

Hello, I could go 6 months on the old 860 litre with 2x 5kg bottles. It only cost me £10 to refill both, but prices can vary quite a bit. However I would agree the lighting is very strong and that in itself would require more co2 input. In comparison on this tank (~1600l) I only have 216w for most of the 7 hour photo period, just a 1 hour burst of full 432w in the evening, really for viewing.

I think Lighting then heating are the two biggest costs. It is hard to measure the heating, but I know in summer the KWh usage goes down significantly.


----------



## sanj

Edvet said:


> Just found this. Not sure if it is still up, but congratulations on a very nice tank, very well done! Lots of plants and lots of fish, just what i want!


 
Thank you Edvet,

It is still going, I will post and update every now and then. It just evolves now, plants gradually change, looks like Tom might have another stump for me...

Tom,

I will pm you. Thanks.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Looking forward to seeing some updated pics sometime soon Sanj


----------



## James O

oof!  Big IS indeed beautiful!  This is 29 times my current tank and 5.3 the 'big' one I want.  I'm gonna show this to Mrs O to make out how 'reasonable' my 300l tank idea is

Did I miss the 'doors open' pic of your filter/heater/breading tank?


----------



## sanj

Hehe... I think if Mrs O really loves her partner she will allow him to express his creativity. 

I have recently taken some delivery of wood from Mr TB. It is all a bit bouyant at the moment. Mummy and daddy stumps had babies. Not sure on what the outcome will be, but hopefully an improvement.

Hmm yeah, I didnt take photos of the under tank bit... its not neat and tidy like Mr Farmers. I will get around to it.


----------



## Alastair

sanj said:


> Hehe... I think if Mrs O really loves her partner she will allow him to express his creativity.
> 
> I have recently taken some delivery of wood from Mr TB. It is all a bit bouyant at the moment. Mummy and daddy stumps had babies. Not sure on what the outcome will be, but hopefully an improvement.
> 
> Hmm yeah, I didnt take photos of the under tank bit... its not neat and tidy like Mr Farmers. I will get around to it.


Oooooo look forward to baby stumps getting added mate. Dont envy you having to re arrange bits n pieces in that tank. Im finding it hard just cleaning the wood etc in mine and we arent much different in size. 
What ideas have you got

Ps im with you in the messy underneath. Mines just piled with boxes


----------



## sanj

Hi Alistair,



Alastair said:


> What ideas have you got


 
nothing revolutionary more like enhancing the existing positions... hopefully.


----------



## plantbrain

I sent this piece thinking it would offer a nice stump top look with flowing roots coming off in the displayed position.



This will take up much less area than some of the other pieces I had in mind and weighed less also. Ideally, I wanted something a bit larger, but..........in general, always go just a touch smaller than you think, never larger. 
So it will not require a rip out of the entire tank etc, just a 1/2 hour and a large water change.

I'd soak for 2 weeks personally.

I have a piece for my 70 Gallon that's been soaking for over a month now.
But the piece will be mature and look awesome right away. 
Mini pellia pushed into the cracks and grooves will look nice on this. Been doing that for a client and some of my own tanks. 
Easy to add and gives a very nice old aged look to the wood. 

Naturally, some of you who have gotten wood from me may have noticed the Lichen attached, the Ricciardia emulates that submersed.


----------



## Alastair

Niiiiiice


----------



## sanj

Oh! umm I think it must have broke then in the shipping... I kind of recognise it, but that right branch ends at the twist/knot. The one on the top left is not there and I think the second left (longer branch) is also broken off... awww  , but i guess that is the risk with shipping delicate wood.

So I thought it was meant to go the other way round, oops. I will have a look when I get home, see if I can recognise the other pieces.


----------



## plantbrain

Yes, I had a feeling. I'm headed up to collect more wood tomorrow and then the next week a  big haul till it;'s closed off for the mud snow season. We get about 14 meters of snow a year in this region average.
If I spot some nice top, I'll send it.


----------



## sanj

Thanks Tom. I thought I might be able to re piece it together, but its not like a jigsaw. I am playing with what position works best, most of the other wood I have soaking in rain water butt for a couple more weeks.


----------



## Jimmy Dale

plantbrain said:


> nice stump top look with flowing roots coming off in the displayed position.


 
What a stunning piece of wood!


----------



## diloosh

super  pic .............


----------



## LondonDragon

This needs an update with recent photos sanj


----------



## sanj

Hi, its looking a bit of a sorry state at the moment. Before I went abroad co2 ran out, so I reduced the lighting time period to 5 hours, but when I came back alot of the plants and particularly the Marsilea was covered in a black algae, I guess Green spot? I have been cutting back and removing leaves hoping for signs of recovery. I did also treat the tank with Levamisole in the week before I went, so I am not sure if that has contributed.

Changed the lighting system though... maybe I will post a pick of it looking particularly poor then I can look back when it recovers.


----------



## LondonDragon

A journal shows the ups and downs of planted tanks  so a good learning experience to everyone if you cover what happened and how you recovered from it


----------



## drooke

Hi Sanj, that's an amazing tank you have there! I have recently collected some rainbows (reds, blues, bosemans, red tails and dwarf neon) but I'm struggling to find a dry food that they love - any suggestions? They do love the white worm culture I'm trying to get up to a decent size to feed them lots of, but wanted a good staple food for them.

Any advice appreciated and keep up the good work!

Dan


----------



## sanj

Hi Dan,

I use this site for most of my dry foods, I have to say I find they will take most foods, but variety is always a good idea. http://www.ta-aquaculture.com/

I use a mix of different foods, spirulina flakes, pellets, granules, the various dried worms, krill, and the asthax granules. If they are being fussy you might want to try some of the food that has garlic in it. 

TA were based in the UK, but relocated to Malta. Still should not be any problem ordering from them.

Regards,

Sanj


----------



## drooke

Thanks for the suggestions Sanj, I'll check them out and try a few new ones. 

I know that they are eating, they're just not as enthusiastic about dry foods!

Thanks,

Dan

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


----------



## sanj

Also these guys: http://cefishessentials.com/


----------



## Edvet

Hey Sanj, we realy realy need pics now................


----------



## sanj

It has been a struggle this year, plants looked really sick after I came back from Thailand, I wonder whether the Levamisole treatment I added for worms and a negative effect? Anyway, I have since replaced my powerheads with Maxspect Gyre pumps which seem to work pretty well, getting nice flow and the plants do seem to have pricked up. Scape wise not really happy and not ready for a major rescape because of £££ and the right inspiration, so I find it is a jungle and I am just letting it evolve for now.



Oh and I took a shot of under the cabinet... a bit messy, but hey ho


----------



## drodgers

Awesome I like the jungle look for larger tanks .. Lovely assortment of Rainbows they look right at home.


----------



## Edvet

What's in the small tanks? juveniles?


----------



## Alastair

Amazing mate. Even as grown in as that. Ps if you rescape and need wood I've loads you can have


----------



## Gary Nelson

Yes I agree with Ali, it looks great and nice and mature.... The colours on the bows look incredible too.


----------



## sanj

Edvet said:


> What's in the small tanks? juveniles?


These tanks are used for breeding and raising fish, the left most 200litre is currently growing out juveniles, the middle has some young Apisto borelli in it, the right one has some rare Rhadinocentrus ornatus adults, which I am trying o breed from. I have another dozen or so breeding tanks, most in an understairs cupboard.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Still looks amazing to me...it's just a fantastic set up all round.


----------



## Edvet

How do you filter your small tanks? air driven or small canisters or else?
Nice fish those Radinocentrus  btw


----------



## sanj

Thanks for the positive comments guys. 

Thank you for the offer on wood Alistair, might be somthing Ill be knocking on yout door about .



Edvet said:


> How do you filter your small tanks? air driven or small canisters or else?
> Nice fish those Radinocentrus  btw



Nearly all use air  driven sponge filters, some like the 200l under the big tank uses a corner style Hamburg matten filter, which is also air driven.


----------



## Edvet

sanj said:


> Hamburg matten filter


 love them for smaller tanks, Always wanted to do a big one with it.


----------



## nayr88

Looks healthy enough in the pics  can you get some closer shots too please 
Is they huuuuuuge clumps of needle fern or just made to look that way because of shear size of the tank?


----------



## DivZero

What an amazing looking tank. And the fact you just have a couple of tanks in your cabinet including a 200 L makes me jealous. I don't think I can fit much in the cabinet under my 64L lol. I hope your plants keep recovering!


----------



## BrianTsui2015

Really love this one.
Could I translate it?


----------



## sanj

BrianTsui2015 said:


> Really love this one.
> Could I translate it?



Thank you, very kind of you to say so. Although as a scape I think it is pretty poor, as a planted tank for my rainbowfish, its not bad . I am not sure what you mean by translate, do you mean another language? If so feel free.


----------



## sanj

nayr88 said:


> Looks healthy enough in the pics  can you get some closer shots too please
> Is they huuuuuuge clumps of needle fern or just made to look that way because of shear size of the tank?



Hello, I will try to just been mad busy with work. There are a few different types of Java, but mainly Trident form.




DivZero said:


> What an amazing looking tank. And the fact you just have a couple of tanks in your cabinet including a 200 L makes me jealous. I don't think I can fit much in the cabinet under my 64L lol. I hope your plants keep recovering!



Thanks very much.


----------



## plantbrain

Have you considered removing a few of the foreground plants and adding a whit sand front?
Would make the scape look better I think, and be easier to care for. 

You'd keep the mid ground and some of the foreground plants, but it would provide a bit more space and look more organized.


----------



## sanj

plantbrain said:


> Have you considered removing a few of the foreground plants and adding a whit sand front?
> Would make the scape look better I think, and be easier to care for.
> 
> You'd keep the mid ground and some of the foreground plants, but it would provide a bit more space and look more organized.



Hi Tom,

Yes I had considered replacing much of the base with a light coloured sand similar to my 300litre. It would be a messy change though. Just need to get around to working out how best to do undertaking this.


----------



## Laurie Dear

you must be tired of hearing this but...really awesome tank and thread!

new to aquascaping and this is really inspiration. i'm completely in awe that you have breeding tanks. think it's a really awesome thing to do. not seen it on any other journals (though i might not have been reading/looking carefully)

look forward to updates or new tanks which ever spring up next.


----------



## stefanprisacariu

Although it has already been said, this tank is amazing!


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Sanj, Stunning Scape and fish


----------



## sanj

plantbrain said:


> Have you considered removing a few of the foreground plants and adding a whit sand front?
> Would make the scape look better I think, and be easier to care for.



Well Mr Barr,

I think its going to happen. Already inserted ugly lawn edging to separate substrate and going to use La Plata sand at the front. Its got to be done with fish in situ... not looking forward to it. TGM suggested siphoning the substrate out in sections with a hose, might work with the limpopo sand underneath and tropical soil, not so sure with the ada that has creeper to the front over the last few years. Still some change would be nice.


----------



## sanj

Laurie, Stephan, Greenfinger, thank you for your kind comments.


----------



## sanj

Not such a good photo, taken from my phone, but this is what it looked like a day after the substrate change, some sand is further back than the partition, I think it will sink over time. It has since grown on me, don't know how practical it will be long term. Surface area is still ~75% ADA Amazonia. It will look better when the plants grow up to the substrate division and spill over slightly. I think anyway.


----------



## James O

Me likey very muchly 

photo saved in inspiration folder


----------



## Iain Sutherland

I really like it sanj, as you say it will look even better once the plants settle again.
Still a stunning tank mate...

any updates coming for the others?


----------



## BurningRanger

One of the most impressive freshwater tanks I've seen.


----------



## sanj

Thanks guys, it is ok, but not really as exciting or as good as earlier scaping. I would like to do a proper rescape, but other areas of life have taken my time for some months. Still Iain I have taken a pic or two of the other tanks, dont expect too much though, they are all a bit slightly overgrown.

Another shot of the biggy from this evening:


----------



## Phil Edwards

Lovely tank Sanj!  The sand helps give it a strong impression of an overgrown shoreline or river bank.  You're pushing me ever closer to going with a sand foreground.


----------



## sanj

Hi Phil, I am glad you think so, that is on the lines of what I was hoping it would look like. I would like a bit more establishment with plants breaking up the division of the substrate some more. I had thought about a major rescape with white sand being the basis, but Tom's suggestion in the end was a lot easier to integrate in terms work and ££s. It feels a bit like a beach with the forest growing up densely to its borders, many of the loach and crossocheilus species like to bask out on it.


----------



## Rabbit229

Awsom tank sanj
I'm a thinking on setting up a 7ftx 20inch x 18 high

Ive noticed you are now using maxpect gyre. Are you using 2 in your tank or just one?
Would one be ok for my tank or would you recomend 2


----------



## sanj

Rabbit229 said:


> Awsom tank sanj
> I'm a thinking on setting up a 7ftx 20inch x 18 high
> 
> Ive noticed you are now using maxpect gyre. Are you using 2 in your tank or just one?
> Would one be ok for my tank or would you recomend 2




Hello, I think one would be enough especially when setting up from new. I have both of mine on lowest setting and it still creates plenty of movement. I bought two because I felt the tree trunks might obstruct flow.


----------



## Rabbit229

Just ordered my tank and the guy in the store talked me into having 7x2x2 so slightly bigger 

We're did you buy your lights from. They look to be doing an awsome job, I'll read back through your thread and see what you are using


----------



## rainbowhead

Absolutely amazing! 
Only to persuade the boss now.......

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## sanj

Rabbit229 said:


> Just ordered my tank and the guy in the store talked me into having 7x2x2 so slightly bigger
> 
> We're did you buy your lights from. They look to be doing an awsome job, I'll read back through your thread and see what you are using



Pacific Sun: http://www.pacific-sun.eu/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=190

You could probably go with the Hyperion units, mine was a hybrid (Pandora) because my tank is 93cm front to back and I didnt want to hang the lights too high.

I have Hyperions on smaller tanks and I should give enough spread on a 60cm front to back if you suspend them. You certainly wont need them on full power, more like 50% if that.


----------



## Rabbit229

IV ended buying the Radion XR15 Ive bought 3 of them but think I'll need to buy another,

In your last images ive noticed you have made some changes to your filteration and spray bars, is it possible to upload some close up images and here about your spec on the filter system and co2 diffusers in lines please, I'm new to aquascape and I'm trying to gather as much info as possible
My new tank comes on Saturday and I'm ordering bits for the set up this week.

I'll be using 3 external filters
2 will be only used as a heater and co2 up line and the 3rd will be for the filteration

Your tank has really inspired me on this journey


----------



## sanj

The Radions seem pretty decent.

I only use two external filters, a eheim 2080 and a 2180. Apart from filtration they are used for heating (incl. an inline 300w hydor on the 2080) and co2 injection with circulation primarily undertaken by the gyre pumps. The co2 reactors are from Aquamas, a company in Germany, but I think the SERA reactors would work just as well and are much cheaper.


----------



## Manisha

Amazing journal - I'm so jealous


----------



## J Art

Wow, great!


----------



## sanj

Sent from my HUAWEI CRR-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## James O

Luurvly!

Now we need a link to the updated full HD video on YouTube


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 
Lovely. It has grown in really well.

Your emersed fern has done well. (Photo from May 2015)



 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Tim Harrison

Good to see this still going from strength to strength


----------



## sanj

I think some of the photo quality was lost or perhaps because it is much bigger picture than on the phone.

Eventually the Red mangrove died, possibly from when I lowered the light units.


----------



## Million

This is the very definition of lush. It makes me want to dive in!


----------



## Enano_1

Only 1600 liters? ? 


Congratulations for an amazing big sized tank


----------



## hazeljane

Any updates on this beautiful tank.


----------



## Melll

Absolutely amazing tank 😃 and a very enoyable read 👍


----------



## sanj

It's been a while, lots of neglect, hobby kind of went on the back burner since 2017, no CO2 injection for 3 or 4 years now. Trying to clean things up and get interested again, but it's still going to be no CO2 injection for the future on all my tanks.

Still have Rainbowfish, although this tank is more diverse even added young Bala sharks which I have always avoided. Mascara, Filament and Setnai barbs. Barilius ardens, Dischorontus ashmeadi, crosocheilus species and several sharks.

Plants are largely the same although I have added more varieties of anubias. My coffeolia ( favourite anubias) is dominant across the main trunk.

I restarted dry dosing once a week, my other two tanks are on liquid ferts and one is also getting liquid carbon source.

No major scape changes ( it's expensive), but as you might know, I dont chop and change easily. Although one house move in 2011, it's been over a decade since it all began for this one.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Still looking great Sanj


----------



## sanj

Thanks Tim. It's ok. Pleasant enough, just could always be better.


----------



## rebel

Great example of long-term CO2 and Non-CO2 aesthetic as well as longterm tank husbandry!

If you add smaller anubis/buce then I think the leaf sizes will balance out and improve depth of planting. The current leaf sizes look too even.


----------



## sanj

rebel said:


> Great example of long-term CO2 and Non-CO2 aesthetic as well as longterm tank husbandry!
> 
> If you add smaller anubis/buce then I think the leaf sizes will balance out and improve depth of planting. The current leaf sizes look too even.


Thanks, yes I have been recently adding Bonzai and Paxing, however I have struggled with Bucephalandra in the past with this tank and I am not sure why. The leaves become blackened and they don't grow. I will try again at some point.


----------



## rebel

sanj said:


> I have struggled with Bucephalandra in the past with this tank and I am not sure why


Buce does better in CO2 IME but some people seem to grow it without CO2.

Not sure about Anubias petite/Pangalino etc. I have some but they seem to be slightly more demanding that other anubis.


----------



## LondonDragon

Still looks great and for a tank that size low maintenance is key 
This is officially now longer than my never ending journal! lol


----------



## Inked_aqua

amazing aquarium and great journal


----------



## Stueylake

Fantastic work!


----------



## sanj

Feels like it's regenerated a bit better. I also added some smaller varieties of anubias and bucephalandra.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Still looking mint Sanj, some of those fish are huge now! That rainbow shark is a beast. 
Are you still running the 'smaller' rainbow tank as well?


----------



## Conort2

sanj said:


> Feels like it's regenerated a bit better. I also added some smaller varieties of anubias and bucephalandra.View attachment 163340


Looks amazing! 

How do the red tail and ruby shark get on?

Cheers


----------



## sanj

Iain Sutherland said:


> Still looking mint Sanj, some of those fish are huge now! That rainbow shark is a beast.
> Are you still running the 'smaller' rainbow tank as well?


Thanks Ian, female red tail sharks kind of give their name some justice. Beautiful fish. I do have the two others going they are primarily single rainbowfish species aquariums. I will post an update soon. They are all in process of regeneration since neglecting them a bit last year.


----------



## sanj

Conort2 said:


> Looks amazing!
> 
> How do the red tail and ruby shark get on?
> 
> Cheers


I think there are about 9 in total red tail and red finned sharks. One is an albino. 
There are two chunky female rtbs who regularly square off against each other. There are no serious squabbles, but they do have a pecking order. Any chased are just to move out of the way, but relentless chases don't happen.


----------



## Earlscapes

sanj said:


> Feels like it's regenerated a bit better. I also added some smaller varieties of anubias and bucephalandra.View attachment 163340


Lookks amazing


----------



## timdjones10

Wow amazing tank! Lovely fish choice!


----------



## Robbie X

très magnifique 😻


----------



## Kogre

This is such an awesome tank, it's nice to see it being given the attention it deserves.

Would you mind listing out the fish you have in this @sanj ?


----------



## ScapingScotsman

What a behemoth of a tank, looks amazing. I'm surprised you haven't pulled your sofa right Infront, feet up a wee brew and watch fish tank TV all night. 
Very jealous.


----------

