# Seachem Pristine



## bobiciupe (13 Jul 2017)

Hi guys! Is somebody using seachem pristine among you? I have an iwagumy setup with dirty substrate and i can not vaccum it. I heard about this product and i bought it, and now i am wondering when should i start to see first improvements. Thanks!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (13 Jul 2017)

Hmm, feels a bit like snake oil to me. Should their claims be true which I don't doubt it would appear that the only benefit here is that they have developed a strain of bacteria which like low oxygen conditions. If you have fish in the tank you don't want low oxygen conditions anyway so why not just let the "normal" bacteria do their thing in a well oxygenated tank.
Having said that, won't do any harm, you bought it so try it.


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## Silviu Man (13 Jul 2017)

For me is difficult to understand how these are _"bacteria that break down excess food, waste and detritus in freshwater and marine systems"   _but  _"It will also reduce excess nutrients (e.g. ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites)"._


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## AverageWhiteBloke (13 Jul 2017)

Silviu Man said:


> For me is difficult to understand how these are _"bacteria that break down excess food, waste and detritus in freshwater and marine systems" _ but _"It will also reduce excess nutrients (e.g. ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites)"._



That's the point, all Ammonia and nitrate will eventually be broken down into nitrate and be removed by plants, gassed off or removed with WC's. Doesn't matter whether it's a lump of un eaten food or the food has went through the fish first, same net result really. In low oxygen some bacteria will break nitrate down into nitrogen gas I think which I guess is the basis of the claim but who wants a low oxygen situation. Maybe Seachem have bottled these species but how will they fair in a high oxygen tank? I don't think they can claim to have invented this species, mother nature beat them to it by a couple of million years I reckon.


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## Silviu Man (13 Jul 2017)

Hawever ... I remember from microbiology that there are three kind of bacteria : autotrophic, hetherotrophic and mixotrophic. First are using inorganic sources of nutrients. Second are using organic source of nutrients. The third kind can use both sources of nutrients. I will search to find details about third kind of bacteria. If this kind of bacteria can survive in a very different concentration of oxygen, then this can be the promoter of the orientation of the methabolism of bacteria : aerobic or anaerobic, accordingly. This could made it versatile, according with the environment conditions and the source of nutrients. Why not? Let us see.


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## SA Aquatic (14 Jul 2017)

Have you tried Evolution pure bomb for tank? They are like hungry bacteria that eats up all the sludge and waste. We have been using for a while. So far no issue, just good result. And the good thing is you cannot overdose (as their website says) Seachem is a good brand but sometimes I feel that they are just making expensive placebo (my opinion anyway)


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## dw1305 (14 Jul 2017)

Hi all, 





Silviu Man said:


> I will search to find details about third kind of bacteria. If this kind of bacteria can survive in a very different concentration of oxygen, then this can be the promoter of the orientation of the methabolism of bacteria : aerobic or anaerobic, accordingly.


You get these micro-organisms in zones with fluctuating REDOX values, they are called <"facultative anaerobes">, there is quite a bit of scientific research on them, mainly because of their relevance to Rice production etc. 





SA Aquatic said:


> Have you tried Evolution pure bomb for tank?


None of these products really offer any advantage to us, we have planted tanks, with active plant growth, and a substrate etc.

My personal thought is that all these things are just sticking plasters, and if you continually have to add them you need to address your biological filtration, because it is compromised and not fit for purpose.

If you were starting a tank entirely from scratch they might add an initial microbial inoculum, but that would be the only case where they might offer any advantage. In a similar manner taking a probiotic might be worth while after taking antibiotics, but is otherwise totally pointless. It doesn't relate to aquariums, but if any-one wants a popular science read on microbial diversity Ed Yong's <"I contain multitudes..."> is a good place to start.

<"Plant/microbe filtration is a lot more efficient than microbe only filtration"> and the bottom line is that a planted tank will provide more different niches for micro-organisms.

As general rule, in ecology, diversity brings stability.  This is from <Finlay _et. al_, (1997) "Microbial diversity and ecosystem function" _Oikos_, *80*:2, pp. 209-213>. 





> The nature and scale of ecosystem functions, such as carbon-fixation and nutrient cycling in a freshwater pond, appear to be governed by complex reciprocal interactions involving physical, chemical and microbiological factors. Moreover, these interactions continuously create new microbial niches that are quickly filled from the resident pool of rare and 'cryptic' (and probably cosmopolitan) microbial species. This could mean that microbial activity and diversity are both a part of, and inseparable from, pond ecosystem function....


 Because we can now use RNA to estimate the diversity of micro-organisms in an environment  (rather than being dependent upon what you can culture in the lab.) we know that they were right, and that they actually only <"just scratched the surface">.

The microbial assemblage in a tank will continually change dependent upon the supply of oxygen, food etc, and it isn't a case where microbes are either present or not, but that over time a robust microbial assemblage will develop, that can respond to changes in the availability oxygen, fixed nitrogen, carbohydrates etc.

Our tanks:

Have high levels of dissolved oxygen. 

Have low levels of ammonia.
Aren't wholly reliant on a filter for nitrification.
Have a substrate with fluctuating REDOX zones.
Aren't reliant on water changes and anaerobic denitrification for NO3 reduction, in fact NO3 levels tend to fall over time, rather than rising.
So we don't need to add any microbial supplements.

cheers Darrel


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## bobiciupe (14 Jul 2017)

I apreciate all the sugestions guys, but none of you told if this product is good for my purpose or not. How can i clean the substrate if i can not vaccum it? is this product good for such a task?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (14 Jul 2017)

Basically you are putting something in there that should already be there in a mature tank. They are already cleaning the substrate. If there's solids on the substrate they can either be siphoned of or use shrimp or other bottom feeders to break it down further into something the bacteria can deal with.
It does have its uses in say a new tank or if friendly bacteria have been destroyed by using medication. Because the tank is dynamic the bacteria will adjust themselves to the best conditions and multiply very fast so f it's necessary to add more of these bacteria you need to take a look at why you need to add it because something else is wrong and you need to deal with the cause not the symptoms.
If the tank's requires low oxygen loving  bacteria in the filter the simple answer is to clean the filter and let well oxygenated water through and let then  bacteria that love oxygen do their thing. 
Running a tank with low oxygen is just bordeline waiting for a problem. The low oxygen bacteria you have in the bottle live in the gravel where low oxygen areas exist, always have, always will.
Put the stuff in, it certainly won't do any harm but your money would likely have been better spent on some fish food which would have fed and replicated the bacteria that were already there. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## alto (14 Jul 2017)

bobiciupe said:


> Hi guys! Is somebody using seachem pristine among you? I have an iwagumy setup with *dirty substrate and i can not vaccum it.* I heard about this product and i bought it, and now i am wondering when should i start to see first improvements. Thanks!



Seems to me that Pristine is the type of product that you want - you should observe a difference over a few weeks rather than days as it's a bacterial effect rather than some sort of precipitation effect (takes time to establish the bacteria)
Follow Seachem dosing instructions - you might email them for support re how long to observe changes, possible interferences etc

There seems to be some confusion over how/what Pristine is designed for - lower oxygenation is not atypical for substrate conditions which is where most mulm collects before being pulled up into the filter, similarly if you have lots of mulm/debris collecting in the filter, there will be areas of low oxygenation (which would then support Pristine type bacteria)

I doubt that Seachem has engineered any "new" bacteria that are not (possibly/likely) present in aquaria - instead it is likely a targeted concentrated population (I don't work for/with Seachem )

As you're wanting to remove mulm at the substrate level, give it a go & please take photos & report back


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## alto (14 Jul 2017)

Tank looks fantastic in this journal


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## AverageWhiteBloke (14 Jul 2017)

Yeah tank does look great  Don't get me wrong here, I'm not being negative for negativity sake so please do report back. I hope the product does have some benefit, it's a bit like the Twinstar etc where people see good results without being 100% sure what's going on. However, with my limited knowledge which makes sense to me and as I mentioned earlier not knowing how these bacteria fair in well oxygenated areas my assumption is that the sole purpose of bacteria is to multiply and that's it, can't actually think of any others right now  So that being the case there's areas of the tank with low oxygen levels mainly gravel and dirty blocked filters where poor flow of water means the multiplying bacteria quickly strip out the available oxygen and these areas get habited by the low oxygen bacteria. One would assume that as soon as this starts every available place will be filled with them so how can adding a concentrated solution of these bacteria change that situation? Will some not be lost looking for these areas? When they find them will these areas not already be populated by the same?

I can understand that it may prolong the cleaning of the filter by breaking mulm down in there but when this has broke down and water flows through it quicker, if it does, when do the low oxygen lovers go then, another part of the filter, is this not happening anyway? Would it not be better all round to just clean the filter, after all there's so much other crap in there and only so much the bacteria can deal with.

So many questions


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## bobiciupe (14 Jul 2017)

alto said:


> Tank looks fantastic in this journal


 
that is my preavious tank.

Thank you all for your information. I will let you know what happened in a few weeks time


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## bobiciupe (29 Jul 2017)

As I promised few weeks ago, i can came up now with the first impressions about what this product does or doesnt. I put in the water almost 3 weeks ago and my substrate, plants and aquarium glass is clean. I dont know what kind of bacteria it has, but it certainly does its job well. It is a very good product to use in a situation like mine was, with a new  aquarium when you cant vacuum the substrate and all the detrius is building up in there.


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## Silviu Man (29 Jul 2017)

Did you notice any effect on living beings?


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## bobiciupe (29 Jul 2017)

Silviu Man said:


> Did you notice any effect on living beings?



No. No side effects


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