# help with soil substrate please!



## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

hello everyone!that is my second thread in the forum i am new in the forum as in planted aquarium world!
i am going to set up a 5 feet tank i was thinking about the substrate!i wanted to buy jbl aquabasis plus or something similar with that and cap it with jbl manado but t will cost me over £100 outs!!!
then i have heard about soil in a tank!i tried to find some information for that but i am still confused as my english is not hte best!sorry about that!
could someone please guide me how to do it?step by step please?
first of all would you recommend this?
which soil do i have to buy?
do i have to mix it with peat?or gravel?or cat litter? actually how that works?
also i have seen about ''mineralized substrates'' what exactly is that and how can i do it?
how long it going to take!i have got another to well established  planted tanks (100 litres and 45 litres) with only jbl manado a for substrate and feeding them weekly with jbl ferropol!
the plants tha i have got are (i am planning to transfer them to the big one but i would like good substrate to be able to grow more plants in the future) 

java fern , java moss , bacopa ''australis'' , hygrophilia 'siamensis' , vallissneria ,wisteria , the other one is hornwort or waterfoil(sorry i am not sure) and two more that i don't know the names (i could upload some photos if you want!) 
i am trying to find the cheapest way with the best result!

as you can see i am very confused!
honestly is any one who could help me step by step please?
i would really appreciate it! i reading all day every day but still i am confused!

thanks in advance 

chris!


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## Victor (7 Jul 2014)

I've used earthworms humus. Put some humus in a bucket and fill it with water and remove the organic matter that is floating on the surface. After that you need to dry the humus at sunlight. Spread it on a spyrofoam plate to help dry quicker. Done this you can pulverize the humus using a hammer or some other tool. Finally, put a 1 cm to 2 cm layer of humus in your tank and cover it with a thick layer of thin gravel (5 cm to 10 cm).


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## Lee Sweeting (7 Jul 2014)

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum. Check this link out http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-soil-substrate-planted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/. Its a great beginners guide to soil substrates, which are inexpensive, and very efficient.

Hope that helps?

Lee


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## Edvet (7 Jul 2014)

Soil substrates can help, but are never "needed"


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## sciencefiction (7 Jul 2014)

Having had tanks with soil and inert substrates in various setups, I consider soil as to be "needed" if you care about growing plants in a low tech tank.

I would give JBL aquabasis a skip, the most horrible of all substrates I've ever used, plants suffered intoxication of some sort and 6+ months attempts couldn't resolve it.

Have a read about this cheap way to setup a soil tank with which I and many others have had excellent results:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...neralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot-37.html


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## Rob P (7 Jul 2014)

sciencefiction said:


> I would give JBL aquabasis a skip, the most horrible of all substrates I've ever used, plants suffered intoxication of some sort and 6+ months attempts couldn't resolve it.



I've had pretty good success with JBL Aquabasis capped with sand...



Still got crazy growing plants after 12 months of service


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## sciencefiction (7 Jul 2014)

It's good to know, mine killed plants in a matter of 1-3 days they shrivelled and died miserably upon being planted/moved from other healthy tanks.  The JBL aquasoil was capped with JBL black sand, could have gone anaerobic, I don't know what the reason was, couldn't figure, no amounts of carbon or ferts solved it.[DOUBLEPOST=1404731303][/DOUBLEPOST]On a side note Rob, is that a co2 and EI tank?


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## Rob P (7 Jul 2014)

sciencefiction said:


> On a side note Rob, is that a co2 and EI tank?



It is mate


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## sciencefiction (7 Jul 2014)

Rob P said:


> It is mate



Thanks Rob.

Still, if Chris is up for a low tech tank my advise is to save money and go for mineralised topsoil instead.

Not here to brag about anything but for the purpose of the question this is my 5f tank with mineralised topsoil, not a drop of co2 in it.


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## Rob P (7 Jul 2014)

sciencefiction said:


> Still, if Chris is up for a low tech tank my advise is to save money and go for mineralised topsoil instead



For sure lol, I was just highlighting that Aquabasis hadn't caused me a problem or killed my plants! 

I've had better success and plant health with low tech (no carbon addition whatsoever) as it goes...



That was using expensive Florabase substrate however (but not much cost issue in 20 litre tank  ).

That tanks been stripped and redone again fairly recently (month ago) with plain black sand over the top of a smattering of the old florabase and again it's starting to look promising



Which is why my next main tank will be carbon free!!


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## sciencefiction (7 Jul 2014)

Beautiful tanks Rob. I still wouldn't buy the JBL aquabasis even for free 
I haven't tried florabase but judging by your pictures your low tech tanks did great without the "benefit" of JBL aquabasis plus, he, he


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## Rob P (7 Jul 2014)

sciencefiction said:


> I haven't tried florabase but judging by your pictures your low tech tanks did great without the "benefit" of JBL aquabasis plus, he, he



Yes it does well that tank, but the florabase is hellishly expensive in comparison!! And harder to work with 

If you ever decide to try it, i've 25+ litres brand new sitting around doing nothing   LOL


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## NatureBoy (7 Jul 2014)

heavy clay / loam top soil free from mother nature. Save your money for quality hardware!


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## Andy Thurston (7 Jul 2014)

I don't see the attraction with these specialist aquatic soils. I use ji3 capped with sand. The purpose of the substrate is for the plants to root in and to provide a backup of nutrients incase dosing is sloppy.  if people want to line the pockets of amano, tmc, fluval etc. thats their choice, personally i cant justify that much money for baked dirt with ei salt added


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## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

Lee Sweeting said:


> Hi Chris, welcome to the forum. Check this link out http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-soil-substrate-planted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/. Its a great beginners guide to soil substrates, which are inexpensive, and very efficient.
> 
> Hope that helps?
> 
> Lee


hello lee it is nice to be here!i have read a lot of thing really good forum!
thanks for your help!i will have a look thanks![DOUBLEPOST=1404753453][/DOUBLEPOST]thank you all of you guys for your replies!
i don't know to who i have to say thanks!i appreciate all your help!
how many of you my friends would recommend soil instead of brand substrate ( like jbl,tetra etc)?
it is difficult to decide as i don't know enough probably !
is the substrate with soil for low tech uses only?
anyway i have to many things to read now!

thanks all of you again!and i will keep in touch with photos![DOUBLEPOST=1404753771][/DOUBLEPOST]





sciencefiction said:


> Thanks Rob.
> 
> Still, if Chris is up for a low tech tank my advise is to save money and go for mineralised topsoil instead.
> 
> Not here to brag about anything but for the purpose of the question this is my 5f tank with mineralised topsoil, not a drop of co2 in it.



 nice one my friend thanks for the video and for your advice i will start to read now!


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## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

Rob P said:


> For sure lol, I was just highlighting that Aquabasis hadn't caused me a problem or killed my plants!
> 
> I've had better success and plant health with low tech (no carbon addition whatsoever) as it goes...
> 
> ...




thank you very much! i will upload some photos from my other tanks as well !


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## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

Edvet said:


> Soil substrates can help, but are never "needed"


 thanks for your reply...

what you mean by that?
is it better to go for the specific aquatic substrate?


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## Edvet (7 Jul 2014)

You grow plants nicely in all kind of substrates (plenty of examples here on the forum). Plants take up nutriens through the leaves easily, just make sure there are enough nutriens in the watercolumn. You could grow plants in :



 
or


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## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

i like what you saying!
 i am feeding them with jbl ferropol and jbl manado substrate in the other tanks that i 've got! 
just i am trying to save some money on the big one (5feet)!
is it better then to feed them form the leaves?
but what about the plants with big roots?
what substrate would you recommend then?any?

thanks for your help my mate![DOUBLEPOST=1404764487][/DOUBLEPOST]





NatureBoy said:


> heavy clay / loam top soil free from mother nature. Save your money for quality hardware!



thanks for your reply my friend!
do i need some preparation for that?
could i put some soil from my garden then or do i have to buy some?if yes which brand is the best for aquarium?

thanks again!


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## Edvet (7 Jul 2014)

I have always used riversand/gravel, once my tank looked like this:
38374948_00005314 by Edvet, on Flickr.
trying to get there again


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## chris_cotton23 (7 Jul 2014)

very nice!!! wow!thank you my friend!


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## Alastair (9 Jul 2014)

chris_cotton23 said:


> very nice!!! wow!thank you my friend!



High Chris, just some John innes number 3 or aquatic pond compost,( about 8 pound for a huge bag, then cap with tesco low dust cat litter (similar to Manado) but only 2.90 a bag. Just give it a really good rinse first. 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2


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## chris_cotton23 (9 Jul 2014)

Alastair said:


> High Chris, just some John innes number 3 or aquatic pond compost,( about 8 pound for a huge bag, then cap with tesco low dust cat litter (similar to Manado) but only 2.90 a bag. Just give it a really good rinse first.
> 
> Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2




thank you very much alastair !that actually was what i was looking for!

i ve read though that JI number 3 increase the ph- gh and also that aquatic pond compost doesn't affect at all!is that true?
finally i will go for soil substrate!(do i have to open new thread you think?)
i am trying to find a soil that maybe will reduce the ph because i have got ph around 7.6-7.8...i have read that peat will reduce ph!

http://www.greenfingers.com/product.asp?dept_id=200499&pf_id=LS4808D

another option is that...( the link above)do you agree?anything bad with that?
i was thinking to mix it with some fine grain clay as i have read it has iron and some peat to reduce ph!
and finaly would recommend to mineralize the soil before put it in the tank? 

PS . if i will decide to go fro high tech tank in the future will i be able you think with that set up?

thank you very much again my friend!


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