# Led lights for red plants



## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

Hello. 

I have a fully planted discus aquarium with CO2. 

The only problem i have with my tank is that the red plants turn green or melt and that all the carpeting plants are melting too. 

My dimensions are 150cm long x 45 wight and 60cm height. 

My lighting is Aquatlantis easy led (2 of them) and my filtration is a Fluval FX6. 

I have attached also my tank in order for you to see it.  

Can anyone recommend a lighting system that can help my grow the carpet and the red plants?


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## ian_m (22 Nov 2017)

We need some more details, like filter size, any powerheads, are you using CO2, what colour is drop checker, what is pH drop during CO2, what fertilisers are you using, lighting period, water change rate.

Failure of carpeting plants is almost always related for poorly configured CO2 levels and flow.


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

Filter size is  3500 L per hour. 

No powerheads. 

I am using CO2. 

Drop checker is green. 

Ph drops to 6.5. 

Fertilisers i use tropica the green one (4 ml per day), Brightwell (8 drops per day), potassium and 12ml iron per week. 

Lighting is on for 7 hours per day. 

Water change every 2 weeks 30%.


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## Edvet (22 Nov 2017)

CO2: how is it added to the tank? When? Can you do a pH profile ( pH electronic measurement every 30 mins from before CO2 on till lights out).
There is a lot of plantmass (that's good) but this may hinder the distribution of the CO2, it will be hard to get sufficient flow (400 liter tank will probably not make it with a 3500 liter filter)
Can you say what your tankwater is ( tapwater/Ro etc)


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

The CO2 is added from a CO2 bottle through the diffuser. The Co2 starts 2 hours before the lights are turned on. Unfortunately i cannot make a ph electronic measurement. 

The water is tap water. The CO2 is inserted directly below the filtration output in order to distribute the co2 better in the tank.


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

I also have a small problem with black hair algae. I have increased the lights hours and lowered the ph in order to fight the black ahir algae. Any thoughts on that?


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## ian_m (22 Nov 2017)

Christos Evripidou said:


> I have increased the lights hours and lowered the ph in order to fight the black ahir algae. Any thoughts on that?


Nope wrong. BBA is caused by too much light for your low levels of or fluctuating levels of CO2.

To fix this:
- Remove mechanically ie toothbrush as much BBA as possible.
- Can be spot dosed in the tank with liquid carbon or hydrogen peroxide.
- Sort out CO2 levels and distribution.

So far you now have two symptoms of poor CO2 levels and/or CO2 flow/distribution...BBA and melting carpeting plants. So poor CO2 implementation looks likely.

Not sure about your red plants question, but generally not related to light spectrum.

PS Fantastic tank. I could cope with non red plants and small amounts of BBA if this was mine.


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

Can you recommend how to fix the co2 problems? 

Thank you for the tank.


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## Edvet (22 Nov 2017)

Distribution would be suspect number one. The CO2 is most likely not reaching all parts. At least 10 times the tankvolume is needed in filtercapacity, and with a tank this full i would prefer a bit more even.
In general the advice is to use a spraybar over the entire length of the tank and have the jets of water hit the pane on the other side quite hard. Or add to the existing system with flowpumps.
If this is corrected we need to see if the amount of CO2 is sufficient, place the dropchecker od different places , preferably near troublespots


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## splatteredbrainz (22 Nov 2017)

Try putting the co2 diffuser below your INTAKE so it gets sucked through your filter and maintains contact with the water longer before being distributed into the tank. This will act as a reactor of sorts rather than actually installing an inline reactor. 

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

Any ideas for the red plants?

Does anyone have red plants? If yes, please tell me what lights does it use?


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## Edvet (22 Nov 2017)

Red plants don't become red because of quality of light, red plants are red if they are healthy.
Red lights will give a more red appearance of red plants.


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

So if i spread the co2 more correctly the previous red plants will start becoming red?


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## ian_m (22 Nov 2017)

I would also suspect your fertilisation regime as well, you need to work out you ppm of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Magnesium, Iron and trace elements you are adding with each "squirt" so we can see if you are under dosing. I suspect with having such a "full green tank" cool, using quite bright lights and using CO2 you are probably considerably under dosing fertilisers. This would explain lack of red plants.

I wouldn't be surprised that you need 5-10 times the amount you are dosing now to keep up with your plants growth (don't do this until you know your ppm values).

Use this calculator to get an idea of your ppm values.
https://rotalabutterfly.com/

Even with "ye olde T8 tubes" lighting, but decent CO2 distribution and CO2 levels and decent fertilisation my red plants remained red.


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## zozo (22 Nov 2017)

Some poeple did a lot of testings with different spectrums with the idea growing red plants. Tho on the long term didn't realy come back with any conclusive findings.. I guess it is very hard to say if it realy is from a certain spectrum what makes plants more red or not in an artificial setup. It's stays a controversial theory without any real solid proof.

Personaly i think it's rather intensity than a certain spectrum.. A +/- 6000k light should have about the complete spectrum.. Than it comes down to the PAR value you blast the plants with. For example i planted a rotala indica in an outdoor pond setup submersed at a sunny spot and it turned dark burgundy red within a few days, same as the lobelia, even the Bacopa caroliniana turns redish under the sun. And as soon as i took them inside under artificial light they simply turn green again. Never seen a red Bacopa caroliniana in an artificialy lit indoor tank till now and even a Rotaly indica maybe gets some faint redish tips indoors if you have very strong PAR. Obviously we don't have strong enough artificial lights for this. And having such a blast of light above an indoor tank, needs a lot of co2 to not run into algae problems. 

Co2 only wont do it if PAR aint sufficient high enough.


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## zozo (22 Nov 2017)

Obviously i didn't look hard enough for redish Bacopa in aquariums..





But still it needs a bomshell of light.


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## Christos Evripidou (22 Nov 2017)

Has anyone tried growing plants by using full spectrum lights?


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## zozo (22 Nov 2017)

Christos Evripidou said:


> Has anyone tried growing plants by using full spectrum lights?



Yes and they are aestheticaly crap.. This is a concept from the led industry using some logics behind the design, not aimed towards aesthetics but towards enrgy input/uotput sufficiency. Full spectrum in the name is just a marketing, it aint fuller spectrum than a normal white light when it comes to growing plants.
Scientificaly it is prooven we can grow plants under solely red and blue light within a certain wavelenght. What yet is unknown if or what the plant does with the rest of the spectrum.

So when the LED industry came involved with growing plants they considered output sufficiency devided over a x amount surface area with an x amount of led units x output power x power consumption. Since leds weren't particularly strong and you need quite a lot units to perform something usefull, than using the majority blue and red LEDS gave more sufficient usefull PAR regarding plant growth in comparison with the same sum in only white light leds over the same surface. In regard that the plant after all only needs Red and Blue.. Easteticaly it's a dissaster, but regarding plant growth it was for the time beeing more sufficient.

This only was of importance if you are growing e.g. a tomato, you want a fat tomato in the first place and do not care about it looking good during the process of growing.

So these so called full spectrum setups are originaly only aimed towards uotput power v. concumption v. usefull PAR. They were absolutely not beter than any other equivalent white light source with same PAR output.

When looking into an aquarium looks is a different story.. In the first place you want it to look good. And is does look best under a natural as possible white light source. Still this is a mater of taste in how your eyes perceive white light and how the plant reflects it, you can choose between 2000K and 10000K or a mixture of these. In general consensus it is said 6500K is natural white and likely the best color to grow plants and looking good at the same time.  But in the end they grow under any white light you give them.

These light setups are actualy something old fashion from the LED era, even tho they are only few years on the market. LED industry rockets in development and progresses still with in months. The newest generation much beter performing full spectrum grow LED units all give white light by now.. Since day light spectrum still is the best and realy full spectrum.


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## Christos Evripidou (23 Nov 2017)

Has anyone used Bazooka CO2 diffuser? What are the comments on that one? 

I was looking for an inline CO2 diffuser to connect with my fluval FX6 but the pipe is too large (24mm hose) and no diffuser can connect to it externally.


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## foxfish (23 Nov 2017)

There are ways to use 22mm or even 16mm atomisers on you 25mm pipe. There are quite a few documented threads on this forum but basically you need to form a bypass in the main pipe line using reducers.... you don't get any loss of flow that way.


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## Christos Evripidou (23 Nov 2017)

you mean getting a pipe reducer to reduce the 25mm to 22mm then connecting the inline diffuser and then again connecting a reducer to increase the mm to 25?


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## ian_m (23 Nov 2017)

Christos Evripidou said:


> Can anyone recommend a lighting system that can help my grow the carpet and the red plants?


Yes lights like these produce the most growth per penny of electricity, red growth by the ton and more carpet plant than you will ever see. Spot the issue though....


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## nel.pogorzelska (23 Nov 2017)

ian_m said:


> Yes lights like these produce the most growth per penny of electricity, red growth by the ton and more carpet plant than you will ever see. Spot the issue though....



It can make sense to use lights like this when you are growing your plants outside of the decorative tanks. Cultivating them for another tank or selling them. For the tank that is to be watched, the problem is obvious. But it's good to add some red and blue to the LED mix to get better coloration, just not ONLY red and blue


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## foxfish (23 Nov 2017)

Christos Evripidou said:


> you mean getting a pipe reducer to reduce the 25mm to 22mm then connecting the inline diffuser and then again connecting a reducer to increase the mm to 25?


No, that would decrease the flow, think  like a bypass on a motorway.
You need divert a short line away from the main course, reduce the line to 16-22mm & reconnect back to the 25mm main line.
It has been done many times but I am at work & don't have the time to post a diagram.


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## ian_m (23 Nov 2017)

Christos Evripidou said:


> you mean getting a pipe reducer to reduce the 25mm to 22mm then connecting the inline diffuser and then again connecting a reducer to increase the mm to 25?



Like this from Zeus's monster tank. In fact he has two CO2 injectors (and DIY PLC controller) to get enough CO2 in.

Picture from this post https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...-co2-reactors-fitted.43046/page-3#post-475073


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## splatteredbrainz (26 Nov 2017)

I've heard you can bury a nail in the substrate beneath red plants to promote red coloration

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


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## ian_m (26 Nov 2017)

splatteredbrainz said:


> I've heard you can bury a nail in the substrate beneath red plants to promote red coloration
> 
> Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk


That's hydrangea's that works with. Never heard it with aquatic plants.


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## Edvet (26 Nov 2017)

ian_m said:


> That's hydrangea's


and it's to get them blue


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## micheljq (27 Nov 2017)

I had very red ludwigia repens with 2 cheap 23W - 6500K cfls in my 22G and diy co2.

I was not dosing any micros or iron at that time.

Michel.


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## Christos Evripidou (29 Nov 2017)

I have changed the co2 diffuser to Bazooka diffuser and placed it below my filtration input. 

I have also purchased a wave maker in order to enhance my water flow. 

And i will purchase 2 twinstar lights 600SP and placed them together with my aquatlantis easy led in order to increase the light and see how that goes. 

I couldn't place the co2 diffuser in the flow of the filtration output as the FX6 hosing is very fragile and i am afraid if i cut it and make it smaller and then larger again, the hosing might starts losing water. 

I will let you know how everything goes. Any comments on the twinstar lights?


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