# Tom's Poco Pozo



## BigTom

Hi all,

Having bidden farewell to the Bucket of Mud, I thought I'd start up a thread for my next tank, although it'll be a couple of weeks yet before things start taking shape properly.

Firstly I need to say a massive thank you to Alastair for donating his old 4'x4' shallow tank, cabinet, TMC Growbeam 1500  and various other items for this project. It was a really humbling bit of generosity that I'm not sure I'll ever be able to fully repay.

So, what's the plan then? Well I've been backwards and forwards a lot on what to do with this... it was very tempting to return to my original plans for a _Parosphromenus_ tank, but as ever I can't resist the urge to try new fish species and decided on a South American set up. I then spent a long time looking at blackwater SA biotopes. I love blackwater tanks, but my three nanos will probably be blackwater and I wanted something different.

South American clearwater then! In particular I've been watching a lot of footage by Ivan Mikolji on Youtube of Venezuelan morichales. These are relatively small, spring-fed, clear or moderately tannic waterways, generally located in grasslands and named after the moriche palms (_Mauritia fluxuosa_) which grow alongside them and dominate the littoral zone. The clear waters also allow for some really impressive aquatic plant growth in some areas, particularly in small pools that the locals call 'pozos'. Poco Pozo just means Little Pool 

Some (quite long) inspiration from Ivan Mikolji's Youtube channel-



Jump to 7 minutes on the above video.



Lots more photos etc here - http://www.aquatic-experts.com/

I'll update soon with prospective fish and plant lists for those interested.

Cheers,
Tom


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## sciencefiction

Subscribed


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## ADA

Me too


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## OllieNZ

Oooo watched a couple of his vids now, some amazing habitat footage. Building the tank around one of the dwarf crenicichla sp. would be an interesting challenge


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## BigTom

Yeah the crenicichla are superb looking fish and seem pretty ubiquitous in that sort of habitat. Very aggressive when breeding though, apparently, and I'm not sure I have sufficient self restraint for a species tank!


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## OllieNZ

I did say challenge  nobody says it has to be biotypical, I'd be tempted to try pantodon buchholzi with them


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## discusdan

this is gonna be goooooood!


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## tim

SUBSCRIBED !!!


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## EnderUK

BigTom said:


> Poco Pozo just means Little Pool


 Doesn't quite have the same ring to it as Bucket o' Mud but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since it's you


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## BigTom

EnderUK said:


> Doesn't quite have the same ring to it as Bucket o' Mud but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since it's you



Pfff! It's relevant, snappy, alliterative and rhymes - what more do you want? 

Besides, Alastair pretty much owns the Receptacle of Something Brown meme now, haha.


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## James O

Going from 90x90 (8100sqcm surface area) to 120x120 (14400sqcm surface area) gives you loads more room to play!  Subscribed 

Can't wait to see your emergent growth for this one.  You must have seriously high ceilings to accommodate palm trees


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## BigTom

James O said:


> Going from 90x90 (8100sqcm surface area) to 120x120 (14400sqcm surface area) gives you loads more room to play!  Subscribed
> 
> Can't wait to see your emergent growth for this one.  You must have seriously high ceilings to accommodate palm trees



Yup, more than doubled the volume as well (240 to 540l). 

I have looked for moriche palm seeds but the only place I could find them has a 30 euro minimum order and I don't really need 20! They're super tropical in their requirements as well, plus I don't have 35m high ceilings, haha. 

I do have a couple of ideas for a more suitable replacement, or I may use architectural ferns instead.


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## James O

Like this!?!?

http://watershedpr.co.uk/wp-content...-Gardens-pokes-head-through-Gunnera-Leaf1.jpg


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## Lee Sweeting

Sounds great Tom, looking forward to this one.


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## Rob P

Subscribed. I'm sure it will be awesome Tom!


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## Alastair

BigTom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Firstly I need to say a massive thank you to Alastair for donating his old 4'x4' shallow tank, cabinet, TMC Growbeam 1500  and various other items for this project. It was a really humbling bit of generosity that I'm not sure I'll ever be able to fully repay.



Your very welcome Tom. I know it'll be looked after well and put to good use or returned if not needed. 
It was never given to have to repay. Its purely the enjoyment from seeing what you do that will suffice. 




BigTom said:


> Pfff! It's relevant, snappy, alliterative and rhymes - what more do you want?
> 
> Besides, Alastair pretty much owns the Receptacle of Something Brown meme now, haha.


Ha ha yeah sorry mate. I've only got one more 'chocolate' surprise to go though so. 

Really looking forward to this. Just seeing you running through your head how it will look was enough to know your going to do another belting job and the ideas you had. Good luck mate.....Im subscribed for the next however many years


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## Vinkenoog1977

And another subscriber... Don't make it too good please Tom, I'm running out of space to put tanks, thanks to your inspirationel Bucket, and now this? Always had a thing for South American clearwater, and I'm sure this one will be as epic, or even more epic-ier, than the Bucket!


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## BigTom

OK, plant musings.

A rather useful paper from 1981 surveyed four major morichales (http://limnoreferences.missouristat...l1985LimnologicalInvestigationOfTheRivers.pdf) and presents the following list of aquatic and marginal vegetation -






I went a bit over the top with trying out different plant species in the Bucket, so I'm going to try and keep myself to 4 or 5 submerged species here which can provide cover and interest without smothering the hardscape... I'm thinking -

_Eleocharis acicularis_ and _vivipara
Poaceae sp_ 'Purple Bamboo' (not from SA but the only actual grass I can think of that will do well submerged long term)
One stem plant to contrast (tbc)
And floating _Ludwigia sediodes_, if I can find it.

For riparians I'm all over the place at the moment... torn between continuing the grass above the water or smothering my emersed hardscape in ferns. Or both. Also on the lookout for a suitable focal plant... either a nice compact palm such as _Chamaedorea microspadix_ or a good architectural fern like _Pteris wallichiana_. Or both.


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## Mr. Teapot

I'm really looking forward to seeing this develop into another heroic journal.

There's a lovely selection of palms, grasses and ferns over at the palm centre.


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## BigTom

Mr. Teapot said:


> I'm really looking forward to seeing this develop into another heroic journal.
> 
> There's a lovely selection of palms, grasses and ferns over at the palm centre.



Thanks. Yeah I've been looking at the Palm Centre amongst others, that's where I spotted the _Chamaedorea_.


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## Dominic

Yes Tom! Looking forwards to this!


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## Pedro Rosa

Tom, one more subscriber on this thread.
Looking forward to a new bucket


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## TOO

I would definitely go for an old dream of mine. A large group of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (of course, wild caught or descendants thereof), which, as I remember from other Mikolji videos, is also an inhabitant of the morichales. With a tank that size you should be able to see some complex social behavior.

Thomas


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## BigTom

TOO said:


> I would definitely go for an old dream of mine. A large group of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (of course, wild caught or descendants thereof), which, as I remember from other Mikolji videos, is also an inhabitant of the morichales. With a tank that size you should be able to see some complex social behavior.
> 
> Thomas



Hi Thomas. Yup, wild type rams are definitely on the potential fish list, although there's some stiff competition in the cichlid category - _Dicrossus_ (_maculatus_, _filamentosus_ and _gladicauda_ have all been recorded in these habitats), _Apistogramma guttata_ (top of the list) or perhaps _megaptera_ or _hoignei (_all hard to find in the UK_)_, _Biotoecus_ and _Biotodoma wavrini_ are all making a case for themselves! I'm going to stock gradually so it might come down to what I can find at the time.


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## BigTom

There's an excellent comparison of littoral and sand bank fish assemblages for a morichal in southern Venezuela here - http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ni/v6n4/v6n4a05.pdf


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## Iain Sutherland

Love the fact your such a fish geek Tom 
No doubt what ever goes in it, it will look natural, tranquil and stunning.... And make it look easy at the same time!
I'm excited for you, long time since you've had that new scape feeling.

Goes without saying I'll be along for the ride.


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## BigTom

Hehe thanks Iain. I have to admit I've gone completely monomaniacal on this now, and the tank isn't even up yet. I have been giving the cabinet a lick of paint and wax as it's about all I can get on with currently.


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## Edvet

Oh man, i've been a fan of Ivan's series and clips for a long time.
I'have been researching a nice planted biotope to recreate in a tank for 2 years already. You'll need a clearwater river/creek, and these are not abundant. Best documented are Rio Bonita area and the Pantanal. Other places usually are clear water for a short period and so not planted (rest of the year white water).The flooded areas can be clear too.
Interested to see what you come up with.


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## Edvet

Talking about crenicichla: i've had and bred Crenicichla compressiceps in the large tank


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## dw1305

Hi all,





BigTom said:


> Apistogramma guttata


I think Mark Breeze is the ~ only person with these in the UK.





BigTom said:


> megaptera or hoignei


 _megaptera_ ("Breitbinden") occasionally arrives as a contaminant, a male should be findable, I'm not sure about females however. _A. hoignei_ also appears occasionally.  





BigTom said:


> Dicrossus maculatus


 I managed to kill mine by over-feeding them, but for the 18 months I had them they are probably the "best" fish I've ever kept.





Edvet said:


> Talking about crenicichla: i've had and bred Crenicichla compressiceps in the large tank


 That's an achievement, tell us more. I've never kept them, I was tempted but they are meant to be extremely aggressive to one another.

Darrel


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## Tim Harrison

BigTom said:


> ...or perhaps _megaptera_


Huh...isn't that the Humpback whale? Your gonna need a bigger tank...


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## Edvet

I had one male and two females in my large tank. (size may mattter). It happpended spontaneously. I think i might have some pics somewhere, lemme check.


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## BigTom

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,I think Mark Breeze is the ~ only person with these in the UK. _megaptera_ ("Breitbinden") occasionally arrives as a contaminant, a male should be findable, I'm not sure about females however. _A. hoignei_ also appears occasionally.   I managed to kill mine by over-feeding them, but for the 18 months I had them they are probably the "best" fish I've ever kept.
> Darrel



Thanks Darrel. I did message Mark Breeze last week but didn't get a reply. I'll try bugging him again when I'm set up. _D. maculatus_ seem to pop up semi-regularly on the UK Apisto Breeders facebook page and do look very tempting. I haven't kept anything from SA since my first community tank 10 years ago so I'm a bit like a kid in a sweetshop at the moment.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 
Thanks Ed, _Crencichla_ pictures noted in "400 gallon" they are lovely.

This is _Apistogramma megaptera, _this one belonged to Lukasz "Ruki", a great Polish _Apistogramma _breeder. 






cheers Darrel


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## BigTom

Some slight progress to report, although I'm mainly stuck decorating at the moment.

Stand is painted, waxed (still needs buffing) and assembled and today I put down the paintbrush for a couple of hours and went to the cracking Hardy Exotics nursery in west Cornwall, where I picked up a palm grass (_Setaria palmifolia_) and a couple of ferns (_Pteris cretica_ and _Blechnum chilense_) for the riparian section. Had a bit of an initial play with some of the hardscape as well, although a lot of it is currently soaking in the pond.


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## aliclarke86

Looks great. That root is fantastic! Is that another free find? That room looks great too! I'm guessing its an old house you have bought?

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## BigTom

aliclarke86 said:


> Looks great. That root is fantastic! Is that another free find? That room looks great too! I'm guessing its an old house you have bought?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Cheers Ali. The stump is a find, the 'roots' are manzanita that I got from Troi via eBay a while back. There's ivy, willow and a little bit of Scots pine soaking in the pond at the mo. 

The house is Mum's new place, I'm staying here for probably the rest of the year while we do it up. The tank is in an old cob-walled outbuilding which is now a studio/office. There's a skylight directly above the tank so I think it might end up being mainly lit by natural light.


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## James O

Should be somewhat warmer than the far reaches of Scotland for early morning photography


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## BigTom

James O said:


> Should be somewhat warmer than the far reaches of Scotland for early morning photography



Heh yeah. To be honest I normally give up in the summer because getting up at 3am is too much like hard work. November is where it's at for landscapes


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## Lee Sweeting

It's looking awesome tom. Really looking forward to seeing this one up and running.  


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## Edvet

Looking impressive, just as suspected and required, Super setting too!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Excellent tom. Don't keep us waiting too long


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## Dominic

oh ma gawd oh ma gawd oh ma gawd how do you make everything look amazing dude!? is that natural sunlight!? Frickin' awesome man. Looking forwards to this!


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## aliclarke86

With that light and the way your bucket went I can only see the natural light being a good start. 

The old knotted piece at the front is a gem. I hope you dont hide it away. 
Although with the current colour on the base of the tank, it may get lost when you get the dirt in.

Are you just using soil again?

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## BigTom

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Excellent tom. Don't keep us waiting too long



Might be slow progress for a bit I'm afraid, need to get the bedrooms habitable this week then refence the garden to a dog-proof standard, then about a million other things. Will just be fitting in tank stuff as and when I can, but it might just about have water in it by the end of the week.



Dominic said:


> oh ma gawd oh ma gawd oh ma gawd how do you make everything look amazing dude!? is that natural sunlight!? Frickin' awesome man. Looking forwards to this!



Yeah that's just from the skylight at the moment. I have a swanky set of LEDs from Alastair that I'm keen to use but to be honest it'll probably be overkill at the moment. Will see how it looks once everything is in and I've put a diffuser blind on the skylight.



aliclarke86 said:


> Are you just using soil again?



Given that I'm not sure how long I'll be living here I think I'm going to avoid the mess of soil and just go with sand mixed with an old bag of peat that's been following me around and maybe some shredded leaf litter.


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## Dominic

Excellent mate, just when i thought it couldnt get much better.


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## Iain Sutherland

That stump is amazing, and the house walls look ready for moss and orchids 


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## Dominic

I didnt even notice that iain, are you going to be planting the walls too!?


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## Lindy

I love that rough wall white wash look, very nice. The tank will be an island of green in there.


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## BigTom

Iain Sutherland said:


> That stump is amazing, and the house walls look ready for moss and orchids
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Heh I had been eyeing up the walls. If this was a permanent installation I'd definitely be going mad on climbers, but the chances are I'll be moving again in 6 months or so so going to hold back.


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## AshRolls

Looking great, I love that wood you have for the centrepiece.

As you're back down here in Cornwall then check out the new Tri Mar Aquaria location. They have moved from their cramped old building into a new unit in Poole industrial estate. It's much lighter and more spacious in there now and they always have some interesting stock. Carnon Downs garden centre also has a good Maidenhead Aquatics outlet which is worth a visit too.


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## BigTom

AshRolls said:


> Looking great, I love that wood you have for the centrepiece.
> 
> As you're back down here in Cornwall then check out the new Tri Mar Aquaria location. They have moved from their cramped old building into a new unit in Poole industrial estate. It's much lighter and more spacious in there now and they always have some interesting stock. Carnon Downs garden centre also has a good Maidenhead Aquatics outlet which is worth a visit too.



Cheers Ash. Already been into the new Trimar. Nice unit but I've always found their stock a bit samey - they seem to have had the same fish for the last 10 years! I'm 5 minutes walk from the Maidenhead which I  much prefer, except for their prices.


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## AshRolls

BigTom said:


> Cheers Ash. Already been into the new Trimar. Nice unit but I've always found their stock a bit samey - they seem to have had the same fish for the last 10 years! I'm 5 minutes walk from the Maidenhead which I  much prefer, except for their prices.



Ah you're close to me then as I'm in Penryn, if you ever have any off-cuts etc I'd love to take them off you?! I'm afraid I can't offer a specialist such as yourself much in the way of plants as mine are fairly generic. I have a blahblahblahblah load of dry ferts/trace though if you need any and I'm good at lifting heavy things


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## James O

AshRolls said:


> if you need any and I'm good at lifting heavy things



That sounds very much like my skill set........


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## BigTom

AshRolls said:


> Ah you're close to me then as I'm in Penryn, if you ever have any off-cuts etc I'd love to take them off you?! I'm afraid I can't offer a specialist such as yourself much in the way of plants as mine are fairly generic. I have a blahblahblahblah load of dry ferts/trace though if you need any and I'm good at lifting heavy things



Could have used you last week when we had to move the damn thing! Not sure I'll have much substantial left over really but you'd be welcome to pop by and have a look when it's up and running.


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## BigTom

Well, time passes slowly on the banks of the morichale... big lumps of wood require big lumps of time to sink!

However there was some considerable excitement yesterday when I got a special delivery from a very nice chap on the PFK forum - _Ludwigia sediodes_ in all it's mosaiciness:


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## James O

_* !WANT!*_


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## BigTom

Hehe. So unexpectedly I found two sources for this - there's more coming next week. If it does well then I'd hope to have some to sell down the road a bit. Would be good to get it established in the hobby, although apparently it's pretty fickle so we'll have to see.


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## Lee Sweeting

Very nice, Tom. Looking forward to seeing the tank up and running. I'm sure its gonna be awesome


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## Dominic

I've been looking for those but  couldn't find them anywhere! Mind i think they would be too big for my tank though. They will look great in yours though pal.

Tom- i've had a little idea niggling in the back of my head in terms of the sun roof lighting- 
Wouldn't it be awesome if, instead of topping up from tap or whatever, if you could open the sunroof whilst raining and allow rainwater to fill the tank? Maybe a few modifications?  That would be absolutely awesome. 

Just a thought!


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## BigTom

Dominic said:


> I've been looking for those but  couldn't find them anywhere! Mind i think they would be too big for my tank though. They will look great in yours though pal.
> 
> Tom- i've had a little idea niggling in the back of my head in terms of the sun roof lighting-
> Wouldn't it be awesome if, instead of topping up from tap or whatever, if you could open the sunroof whilst raining and allow rainwater to fill the tank? Maybe a few modifications?  That would be absolutely awesome.
> 
> Just a thought!



Heh that exact thought crossed my mind as soon as I set it up really. Unfortunately the skylight doesn't open, but I have just set up rainwater barrels on three roofs. Unfortunately it's been really lovely weather since we moved in so they've not caught much yet!


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## Dominic

Ah man thats unlucky. Raindrops landing in the tank would have made a brilliant effect! Fair enough haha, wouldn't say the weather was 'unfortunate' though!


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## Edvet

Pff i gotta say i am not impressed by the underwhelming amount of pics or movies!!


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## BigTom

Come back in 3 months when the wood might actually have sunk. It's just a swamp full of tannins and tadpoles (excellent stand in algae crew) at the moment.

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## Edvet

Lies!

Was that the trunk you logged out of the forest ?


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## BigTom

The main stump is, yeah. That's pretty much neutral buoyancy and stays where you put it, but I've got some nice thick twisty bits of ivy and willow that are extremely dead and still extremely buoyant after a couple of weeks soaking.


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## Tim Harrison

Looking good so far...glad you finally found some use for the manzi, was curious to see what you were going to do with it, and it's a good match for the stump as well. Ed is right though...where's the multimedia?


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tom, Tuning in for the first time  Wow your tank is fab love your ideas  Looking forward to seeing this one come together


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## James O

I think it's time for some gratuitous tadpole shots


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## dw1305

Hi all,





BigTom said:


> Hehe. So unexpectedly I found two sources for this - there's more coming next week. If it does well then I'd hope to have some to sell down the road a bit. Would be good to get it established in the hobby, although apparently it's pretty fickle so we'll have to see.


 I think Ed Seeley grew it at one point, and I was very keen on getting a plant.  

It maybe a size issue, as well as having a high light demand. 

There were plants in the glasshouse pond in Munich Botanic Garden (along with all sorts of other covet-able plants), but they were quite large and it covered quite a sizable area of the pond 
<Glasshouse Complex Munich Botanic Garden>. 

cheers Darrel


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## BigTom

Yeah I'll have to see how they do, the chap I got them from said he's previously had trouble overwintering them despite having them under some fairly serious lights. The ones I've got at the moment are only a few inches across so quite a manageable size, but they might either melt away to nothing or get enormous!


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## BigTom

Troi said:


> Looking good so far...glad you finally found some use for the manzi, was curious to see what you were going to do with it, and it's a good match for the stump as well. Ed is right though...where's the multimedia?



Yeah it works surprisingly well with the big 'bog pine' or whatever it is. The manzi was actually in the last iteration of the Bucket as well but largely hidden by pants.

No multi media because everything is just a massive swampy pile of wood at the moment - looks awful and visibility is about 4 inches haha 

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## BigTom

OK, proof of swamp so people will stop asking


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## James O

Yup, you're right. That's bog snorkelling consistency


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## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Looking great And this is only the start  Cannot wait to see this in a few months


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## EnderUK

That could be the thing finished, put real black water pools to shame.

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## James O

EnderUK said:


> That could be the thing finished, put real black water pools to shame.



The new black water standard - 'So thick you can slice it'


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## Dominic

Hahaha i kind of like it! Can just imagine something massive like an arowana or something poking it's head out of the darkness! This is looking sweet regardless! What plant is that floating on the top? Thats not eleocharis is it?


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## BigTom

Dominic said:


> Hahaha i kind of like it! Can just imagine something massive like an arowana or something poking it's head out of the darkness! This is looking sweet regardless! What plant is that floating on the top? Thats not eleocharis is it?



Yup there's loads of _E. acicularis_ floating at the mo. Will be planted eventually.

Everything you see there cost me £8 from a garden center. Bought a big of tray of it and stuck it in the pond for a few months, it's gone berserk. There are a couple more similar sized clumps underwater which you can't see.


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## Dominic

Oh damn thats awesome! I just can't seem to get mine to either live or grow, it just dies back. Any tips?  :L


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## BigTom

Well this stuff has been living outside so I guess that helps. I do find hairgrass quite hit and miss in low tech... sometimes it does well, sometimes it just sits there and barely grows for months. Can't say I've ever spotted a correlation with light/flow/ferts either really. Sorry, that's a pretty useless reply, haha.


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## Aron_Dip

Boom ... That's how its done!

Awesome mate


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## Dominic

Haha alright man cheers! Don't worry about it haha! I had a feeling it was one of those plants...  E. Parvula is labelled 'easy' by tropica, yet i've never completely agreed with that statement haha.


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## tim

BigTom said:


> OK, proof of swamp so people will stop asking


Looks like Paros paradise


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## BigTom

Getting there, got most of the wood nailed down one way or the other -


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## Edvet

Boooo........... Horrible..........Where are the miniature scaped firs and appletree's............


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## Tim Harrison

Yer...and I want a vineyard...

...Seriously tho', looking tremendous, even though it's still early days...


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## James O

Wow!  From 5cm visibility on Monday to totally clear on Thursday.  Your filters must be _nasty_


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## Lindy

Gorgeous!!!


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## Lee Sweeting

Wow!! Its beautiful mate, and looking very natural too. Have you made any decision on fish yet?


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## BigTom

James O said:


> Wow!  From 5cm visibility on Monday to totally clear on Thursday.  Your filters must be _nasty_



Heh, it was mainly just tannins - a 95% water change dealt with them. The filter has a big old sponge on the intake so no issues there.



Lee Sweeting said:


> Wow!! Its beautiful mate, and looking very natural too. Have you made any decision on fish yet?



A dozen otos just went in to take over form the tadpoles, most of which I removed. Final fish list will probably be determined by availability, I've got some feelers out...


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## TOO

Looks wonderful Tom: the only thing that bothers me a bit is the big "chunk" in the left side. This is not part of the main root as I understand it? If not I would remove it to create an even wider and emptier (not sure that is proper English) space in front. This is what is so great with a tank this size. That you can create wide spaces that makes the tank look bigger and more natural. I love the area to the right with just sand, roots, twigs, and grass (and maybe some leaves). More of that. Would make the tank look more balanced and calm. Just a thought.

Thomas


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## BigTom

TOO said:


> Looks wonderful Tom: the only thing that bothers me a bit is the big "chunk" in the left side. This is not part of the main root as I understand it? If not I would remove it to create an even wider and emptier (not sure that is proper English) space in front. This is what is so great with a tank this size. That you can create wide spaces that makes the tank look bigger and more natural. I love the area to the right with just sand, roots, twigs, and grass (and maybe some leaves). More of that. Would make the tank look more balanced and calm. Just a thought.
> 
> Thomas



Thanks for the feedback Thomas. The large twisted ivy on the left is quite dominant at the moment but does a really good job of leading the eye through the tank in the flesh. Once the two rocks are removed it'll look a lot more balanced and continuous. I did have an alternative composition with the ivy flipped around to form a continuation of the stump on the right hand side which made an excellent wrap-around hollow. I deliberated over it for quite a while and might still try that out again but will wait until everything has sunk properly.


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## TOO

Oh, sorry, so most of what we see in the left are actually stones weighing the ivy down? It will sure become lighter when these are removed. Missed that.

Thomas


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## BigTom

Yeah the two big lumps are temporary rocks... without the ivy there it was lacking in somethign to lead the eye... very much wood at the back and sand in front, especially given the deep shadows that the main stump is casting with only natural light on it at the moment.


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## Michael W

I really like this tank, good job Tom as always!


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## Dominic

Beautiful mate. Absolutely beautiful. You decided what fish are going in yet?


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## tim

I preferred it with the tannins  Lol that's forum speak for I would love to have your eye for such a natural slice of nature  Think I need to get out more  Superb Tom, subscribed for another epic journey.


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## tmiravent

amazing!


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## BigTom

Dominic said:


> Beautiful mate. Absolutely beautiful. You decided what fish are going in yet?



Nothing is quite final yet, but I'm thinking otos, _C. habrosus_, a group of _Dicrossus filamentosus/maculatus_, a good size shoal of dithers (totally up in the air still) and some _Nannostomus eques_, of which I picked up the last 4 from my LFS this morning. More will be added when they have stock again. They're just about the most peacefully behaved fish I've ever seen -


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

BigTom said:


> Nothing is quite final yet, but I'm thinking otos, _C. habrosus_, a group of _Dicrossus filamentosus/maculatus_, a good size shoal of dithers (totally up in the air still) and some _Nannostomus eques_, of which I picked up the last 4 from my LFS this morning. More will be added when they have stock again. They're just about the most peacefully behaved fish I've ever seen -



Lovely Tom! Really great start. I wish I had the space for something like this, or Alistairs give away tank. 

The fish look very nice. Very peaceful.

Were currently looking at moving to Cornwall to live, the better half has interview in Newquay local hospital tues 29th. So I may end up pestering you for good shop locations


----------



## BigTom

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Lovely Tom! Really great start. I wish I had the space for something like this, or Alistairs give away tank.
> 
> The fish look very nice. Very peaceful.
> 
> Were currently looking at moving to Cornwall to live, the better half has interview in Newquay local hospital tues 29th. So I may end up pestering you for good shop locations



Nice one. 'Tis lovely down here and there are several decent LFS scattered about.[DOUBLEPOST=1405699362][/DOUBLEPOST]And all four on patrol. Anyone have an idea on sexes? I'm thinking 4f or 1m3f?


----------



## tim

Nice choice of fish tom, I love pencilfish, my lfs had a large group of these hockey stick pencils captivating little fish, I didn't manage to get them before someone beat me to it but from research I'd say you quite probably have 4f specimines, love the way these guys "hang" in the water, on my fish to keep list


----------



## Michael W

Tom looks like you have 3 females and one male. 3rd one down from your second picture should be a male. N. Eques are lovely fish, they are one of the pencils that should do fine with dwarf cichlid fry.

Have you also considered hatchet fish? They should look awesome while they patrol the surface, then again with an open top tank they may jump out, but it's something to think about.


----------



## BigTom

Michael W said:


> Tom looks like you have 3 females and one male. 3rd one down from your second picture should be a male. N. Eques are lovely fish, they are one of the pencils that should do fine with dwarf cichlid fry.
> 
> Have you also considered hatchet fish? They should look awesome while they patrol the surface, then again with an open top tank they may jump out, but it's something to think about.



Thanks Michael, that's what I was thinking - the third fish is a touch slimmer and is just showing a slight blue edging to the anal and pelvic fins (more easily seen in the earlier 2 photos). I had given hatchets some consideration but like you said I'd be a bit wary of jumpers.


----------



## Edvet

Yup, the analfin color is usualy the giveaway, at least for me.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Very cool, I've been after their cousins for some time, but no do...apparently they're very hard to come by these days...at least in MK...


----------



## BigTom

I've just been sat with a beer watching them potter about in the last of the evening light, they're uber relaxing to watch. Really really nice fish.


----------



## Alastair

Well mate, as I expected you've started another legendary journal to be. It's looking so good even so early on. 
Fish choice is perfect and the layout brilliant. I can see the end result being fantastic. I knew you'd do the tank proud 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Lee Sweeting

Hi, Tom! What are the stringy bits of root you are using? It really adds to the layout.


----------



## BigTom

Alastair said:


> Well mate, as I expected you've started another legendary journal to be. It's looking so good even so early on.
> Fish choice is perfect and the layout brilliant. I can see the end result being fantastic. I knew you'd do the tank proud
> 
> Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2



Thanks Alastair!  Having so much fun setting this all up.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## BigTom

Lee Sweeting said:


> Hi, Tom! What are the stringy bits of root you are using? It really adds to the layout.



Er good question. They're from a climber in the garden. No idea what it's called but looks like this - 





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----------



## BigTom

That's definitely a male pencilfish, they're spawning as I type 

Perhaps I should add a broad leaved plant or two, they don't seem terribly impressed with the little _Ludwigia_ leaves.


----------



## Dominic

Exactly the same happened to me tom- a day or so after adding my beckfordi pencils, they began spawning! Never saw any fry though, probably got eaten. But since theres only four fish in your tank, which is  massive, you should see some survivors! They are absolutely awesome looking fish, very natural, and look much better than any other photos of them that i have seen. Here's to another great journal!


----------



## BigTom

Yeah they're quite hard to raise by all accounts so I'm not holding my breath but it's nice to see.

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## dw1305

Hi all,





BigTom said:


> Er good question. They're from a climber in the garden. No idea what it's called but looks like this


_Muehlenbeckia axillaris._


BigTom said:


> Yeah they're quite hard to raise by all accounts so I'm not holding my breath but it's nice to see.


 Ste Chesters breeds/has bred them. I'll see if I can find the posts (may be on Apistogramma forums).

cheers Darrel


----------



## BigTom

Thanks x2 Darrel.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





dw1305 said:


> Ste Chesters breeds/has bred them. I'll see if I can find the posts (may be on Apistogramma forums).


Found it, it was on the BCA forum <*Nannostomus eques, a little further than I got last time!!*>.

cheers Darrel


----------



## BigTom

My goodness this tank is tricky to photograph in the sunlight... reflections everywhere and obscene contrast. Will be good to get a tile up for some fill light.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Love that Tom. Actually looks like you've flooded the room in the first one. 
Epic.


----------



## BigTom

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Love that Tom. Actually looks like you've flooded the room in the first one.



Came close yesterday, haha.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

BigTom said:


> Came close yesterday, haha.



Can't find fault with that


----------



## Michael W

Now this is the nature aquarium!


----------



## Edvet

I love sunlight in tanks, it's not always easy , but i love it.


----------



## DrRob

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Actually looks like you've flooded the room in the first one.
> Epic.



Don't give him ideas!

Lovely tank. Can't wait to see it evolving.


----------



## BigTom

So yesterday I thought I'd decided on what to use as a main shoal/dither fish (_P. simulans_) only to pop along to my LFS and once again find they only had 5 left. So they're on trial now (I may still switch to a second pencilfish species).

Spot the 'shoal'


----------



## Edvet

Go go tucano :Tucanoichthys tucano!!


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Go go tucano :Tucanoichthys tucano!!



Ooo, new one on me. Very nice. Wrong biotope though, although I admit I'm not being terribly precious about that.


----------



## BigTom

And another sunlit FTS now the rest of the_ Ludwigia_ are in.

That's probably your lot until I get some lights installed.


----------



## aliclarke86

How does a new setup feel after all this time?

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## dw1305

Hi all, 
_Ludwigia sedioides_ looks to be growing well. 

I'll be interested to see what happens with your _Fatsia japonica_ leaf (front left). There is a bush at the university (just outside the lab. in fact) and the dead leaves stay intact for years, but I've always been a bit worried about whether they are toxic, supposedly it is pet safe, but some Araliaceae (_Hedera_) are poisonous.

cheers Darrel


----------



## DrRob

Ohhh, I have a bush of that in my garden as well. Could make for a good leaf litter option.


----------



## BigTom

aliclarke86 said:


> How does a new setup feel after all this time?



Really enjoying setting this up - it's been a massively protracted process to actually get my hands on the tank since originally being offered it last year (due to my own uncertainties about movements followed by two house moves), so I've had it on the mind for a while!



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> _Ludwigia sedioides_ looks to be growing well.
> 
> I'll be interested to see what happens with your _Fatsia japonica_ leaf (front left). There is a bush at the university (just outside the lab. in fact) and the dead leaves stay intact for years, but I've always been a bit worried about whether they are toxic, supposedly it is pet safe, but some Araliaceae (_Hedera_) are poisonous.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Yeah so far so good on the _sediodes_... shooting up a couple of cm a day and no noticeable melt. I'll let the stems re-establish their floating whorls then think about trimming some and offering them on here.

I had a quick look online and found the _Fatsia_ listed as safe for terrariums and other pets so took a punt on it. I'll let you know how it lasts. Was hoping to use some _Cordyline _leaves as well but apparently they contain saponins which are pretty water soluble and fish toxic so wimped out on that one.


----------



## Edvet

Dibs on that Ludwigia if you come to the Netherlands again, not sure it would survive the Royal Mail...........


----------



## BigTom

.


----------



## Edvet

Make sure it doesnt land in the "Ooostvaarders Plassen", could give some heavy duty fauna polution............


----------



## BigTom

.


----------



## Edvet

Well if you have a spare at that time we should have a talk


----------



## BigTom

Small update for some new livestock.

Added 4 _Farlowella_. I think there are 3 _vittata_ and one 'other'. Possibly _platorynchus_ but struggling to get an ID because mostly they spend all day in the wood pile and only really come out at night. Nice when you do spot one though 





In other news, the _L. sediodes_ is not looking too hot. It got really straggly growing for the surface and then struggled to form pads in areas with any flow at all. However a few of the stems in low flow areas now look to be recovering, so fingers crossed. I think it would have been better just to let the pads float rather than planting the stems.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Awesome. Lovely fish Tom and a perfect set up for them.


----------



## aliclarke86

Really interested in these cays but don't currently run a tank suitable for them. They look fantastic 

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## BigTom

aliclarke86 said:


> Really interested in these cays but don't currently run a tank suitable for them. They look fantastic
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



They are ace. Two of them have taken to hanging out at the front of the tank and are pretty day active now so seeing more of them.


----------



## James D

It looks fantastic Tom, one of my favourites on here at the moment, I just wish I could try a shallow tank.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Big Tom, Looking great


----------



## mattb180

Any update Tom?


----------



## The_Iceman

Yes, Sir... time for an update


----------



## BigTom

Ah, sorry dudes. Bit slow going really - still haven't put a light up and there's still tonnes of tannins so not much to look at. Ludwigia is hanging on by the skin of its teeth but the emergent plants are doing well - the palm grass has hit the ceiling already!

Livestock are doing well, added 4 Dicrossus filamentous which are lovely to watch as they patrol around, picking up leaves to hunt things living underneath. Haven't had a chance to add anything else because my LFS suppliers are out of stock of everything I'm after!

Will do photos as soon as I get a light sorted!

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## mattb180

I look forward to it Tom. Just had to google Dicrossus Filamentous, nice fish! What else are you after?


----------



## BigTom

Big groups of green neon tetras and hockey stick pencilfish, a few more Dicrossus, Ammocryptocharax elegans (they only show up about one a year so might be a while), spotted headstanders, and perhaps a small group of Biotodoma wavrini if I fancy something a little larger.

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## mattb180

Not much then!


----------



## BigTom

Heh yeah. It's a loose plan, might change things depending on what becomes available.

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## BigTom

OK, a little bit of content seeing as it's been a while. Fish shots taken in extreme low light and heavy tannins -

One of the male _Dicrossus,_ which are colouring up more and more every day. Need to try and get a shot of one displaying, which is now pretty impressive. Going by the tail pattern I seem to have fish from the Rio Negro rather than Orinoco population, which isn't quite perfect biotope wise, but they are super fish none the less.











A 'twig' -




Riparians are now through their acclimatisation period and are happily going berserk -




Also added 8 _Chilodus gracilis_ (generally sold as _C. punctatus_) but yet to get a decent photo of them.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Love the little fish  And the planting Wow just Exquisite  Nice twig too


----------



## BigTom

Thanks Greenfinger. Yeah I'm pretty pleased with the riparian plants so far - it was something I never really nailed with the Bucket so wanted to make the most of it with this setup.

Headstander patrol just passed by - living up to their name:


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Stunning Looks like synchronized swimming 10 out of 10 are my points


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## Edvet

Looking good as usual and expected!


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## Brian Murphy

Excellent m8 ..... outstanding


----------



## Crossocheilus

Love those dicrossus, if only they liked hard water... Those head standers are crazy, a really intriguing and unique fish, that tank must be great to watch. I can't imagine a better home for these fish, great job Tom, long may it last!


----------



## BigTom

Crossocheilus said:


> Love those dicrossus, if only they liked hard water... Those head standers are crazy, a really intriguing and unique fish, that tank must be great to watch. I can't imagine a better home for these fish, great job Tom, long may it last!



Yeah the headstanders are ace. They were just down as a maybe for the stock list but after watching them in the shop for a while I couldn't resist. The front 6 inches of the tank are very entertaining but I can't actually see any further thanks to the tannins and low light, haha. I'll b probably get some carbon/purigen running on it soon.

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## Crossocheilus

Go easy on the carbon/purigen, the tannins are one of the things that make your tanks so natural.


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## Ady34

Headstanders look cool......do they not eat plants??


----------



## Edvet

Nibble algae in my memory, when there are plenty plants i wouldn't worry


----------



## BigTom

Yeah they're not showing any interest in the HG yet. I heard they might nibble stuff but they're mainly sand sifting so far. Can't see them being a problem as I don't have anything soft leaved.

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## BigTom

Whoop! First new life spotted tonight after dark - a brazen little _Nannostomus eques_. About a cm long already and obviously decided it was time to emerge from the tangle of roots and hairgrass.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Outstanding...


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## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Wow


----------



## parotet

Incredible once again, again one of my favourite tanks...
Yesterday I spent the afternoon re-reading the bucket of mud journal, and this morning this new one. It looks that it is maturing much faster than the bucket, isn't it?
By the way, which filter are you using in that project? And the soil? Any significant difference with the bucket?

Jordi


----------



## Alastair

Looks fantastic mate, really nice and quite jealous I gave it you now ha. 

I'll get a tile and a controller out to you this week for definite so you can get some light on it mate.


----------



## BigTom

parotet said:


> Incredible once again, again one of my favourite tanks...
> Yesterday I spent the afternoon re-reading the bucket of mud journal, and this morning this new one. It looks that it is maturing much faster than the bucket, isn't it?
> By the way, which filter are you using in that project? And the soil? Any significant difference with the bucket?
> 
> Jordi



Cheers Jordi. The riparian plants are definitely growing in really fast (being under a skylight helps I think), but I planted that section much more heavily and with more robust plants than the Bucket. Can't really tell whats going on underwater with the mega tannins 

Substrate is just plain old inert sand with a little peat mixed in. No soil this time. I'm dosing a very small amount of ferts daily to the water column. The filter is currently the same Eheim 2324 that was running on the Bucket, I might think about adding a second filter when the fish stock is a bit heavier but at the moment I suspect the outrageous growth from the palm grass is probably doing most of the 'filtering'.




Alastair said:


> Looks fantastic mate, really nice and quite jealous I gave it you now ha.
> 
> I'll get a tile and a controller out to you this week for definite so you can get some light on it mate.



Hehe well I'm not bringing it back now . So glad I finally got my hands on it after all those months of arsing about at my end. Thanks again Al, and for the lighting.


----------



## BigTom

Spotted a couple more smaller _N. eques_ fry this morning, including this minute dude (about 3mm long and impossibly thin) -



 

I'm very close to going way out of my comfort zone and adding a mated pair of _Guianacara stergiosi_. They're currently surrounded by a cloud of fry in my LFS and are being impeccably behaved to each other despite being in a small tank. I'm more than a little worried about mixing them with the smaller community fish but know a couple of people who have mixed them with small tetras including neons without issue, so I might just risk it.


----------



## prdad

Oooohhh don't do it! Terror will rain down upon the Kingdom of Peace and Impossibly Small Fry.


----------



## parotet

Well, fry and shrimp is food and some may survive if they find a place... But won't they dig the substrate and make a mess with your plants? 

Jordi


----------



## BigTom

Apparently they tend to concentrate their digging efforts around the spawning site, which I would anticipate being deep in the woodpile somewhere. As it is there's only hairgrass planted in the substrate which is pretty straightforward to replant if needed. Yes, I'd expect fry and shrimp to be predated but there's already a huge tangle of riparian roots, grass and floaters for things to hide in, and I'd probably move anything I spotted into a separate grow out tank.


----------



## BigTom

Well, I caved and the tank is now home to a pair of Guianacara. 2 hours in and I still have all my neons, but they are schooling veeeeeeeeeery tightly. Bit scary!


----------



## prdad

We need video. I've ordered the popcorn.


----------



## BigTom

prdad said:


> We need video. I've ordered the popcorn.



There's honestly no point at the moment - visibility is literally 6 inches with the tannins. If we ever get any rain I'll do some big water changes and see what I can do.

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## prdad

*starts doing a raindance around the lounge*


----------



## BigTom

Gnarly male Farlowella -


----------



## BigTom

Tannins! And the male Guianacara who is wearing the same dress (no markings except the 'teardrop') as when he was in the shop with fry so seems he's still in parenting mode.


----------



## Lindy

BigTom said:


> If we ever get any rain I'll do some big water changes


I'm waiting for rain too and i'm south west coast scotland! Haven't had more than a couple of light showers in around 3 weeks


----------



## BigTom

Yeah I'm collecting off two large roofs and have managed about 20 litres in the last month.


----------



## Edvet

Looks like a real live shot straight out of South America  Tom


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Looks like a real live shot straight out of South America  Tom



Mission accomplished!

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## prdad

I thought exactly the same thing. You could film a convincing documentary in there. It makes such a refreshing change from the manicured and clipped ADA tanks.


----------



## Edvet

BigTom said:


> I'm collecting off two large roofs and have managed about 20 litres in the last month.


 Why no RO? I am always scared of rainwater except when it has rained a few days already. Or are you in such backwater now there is no pollution?


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Why no RO? I am always scared of rainwater except when it has rained a few days already. Or are you in such backwater now there is no pollution?



RO is a hassle to buy and expensive to make (we're on a water metre). I'm right down in the rural south west of the UK now - the prevailing winds come straight off the Atlantic and there's very little industry and no cities so it should be pretty safe I reckon. 

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## Edvet

I thought with all those burst watermain's water would be cheap there......... (or is that a thing of the past now, i remember hearing that on the BBC news all the time)


----------



## BigTom

Most expensive water in the whole of the UK down here :/

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## wick

BigTom said:


> Most expensive water in the whole of the UK down here :/
> 
> Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


Sky-high charges compared to the rest of the country. Over 200 pound higher than the national average. The price we unfortunately have to pay to provide clean beaches for the many millions of holiday makers.
On the plus side, it is incredibly soft and of outstanding quality.


----------



## BigTom

It is soft but mine still comes out the tap at pH 7.8 thanks to all the NaOH or whatever SWW use.

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## BigTom

Better shot of the male Guianacara -


----------



## wick

BigTom said:


> It is soft but mine still comes out the tap at pH 7.8 thanks to all the NaOH or whatever SWW use.
> 
> Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk





BigTom said:


> It is soft but mine still comes out the tap at pH 7.8 thanks to all the NaOH or whatever SWW use.
> 
> Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


The absolute swines!
It's been a while since I've tested from the mains, but I believe  it's pretty stable a ph 7.5.
I've had great success keeping and rasing Discus straight from the tap using prime alone.


----------



## aliclarke86

I get ph7.8 and pay £800 a year for the pleasure....

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## Lindy

Our water is free!


----------



## BigTom

It finally rained! Did a whacking great water change yesterday and the visibility is just about enough now to see some fish near the front. I threw together a very rough video last night... handheld footage taken in the evening and still no light on the tank so forgive me for not taking the time to edit it nicely. Just thought I'd show off the fish a bit.

SD only until vimeo finish encoding the HD in an hour or two.


----------



## Edvet

Looking good! (is it an idea to tape a mirror to the other side of the window?)


----------



## darren636

You talented bar stool.

I must say. I like the symmetry of the head standing and the surface dwellers - pencils?
Lots of elegant motion and the big boy doing patrols.
Excellent.
 And then the neons with that arresting flash of colour!
 Too.
Damn.
Good.


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Looking good! (is it an idea to tape a mirror to the other side of the window?)



Cheers Ed. Not sure it would make all that  much difference, most of the light from the window is indirect and hopefully I'll get a light unit over the tank at some point anyway. Just need to add another 20 odd green neons then I'm stocked unless someone manages to import some Ammocryptocharax (Glaser currently have some but none of the LFS near me are keen to place an order).


----------



## prdad

Well worth the wait for the raindance to take effect.


----------



## Wendal_spanswick

That's fantastic. Huge credit to you Big Tom, if you didn't know the video was of an aquarium you just wouldn't guess. So natural looking and a real inspiration.


----------



## Edvet

Never even seen those green Ammo's in a LFS, if i ever do they will be mine, mine ,mine i say, alllll mine.....


----------



## BigTom

You've probably got more chance of getting a LFS over there to put in a Glaser order than I do. They only seem to crop up about once a year in limited numbers...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Another great video of a seemingly natural ecosystem...reminds me of the techniques employed by Oxford Scientific Films. Way back in the day, they used similar set ups - then very innovative - to capture the hitherto unseen behavior of fish etc.


----------



## Lindy

The headstanders look like ballet dancers pirouetting around. Fabulous.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Stunning Video it all looks so natural


----------



## BigTom

Time for a wee update I guess.

All the _L. sediodes_ finally died . Not enough light I guess (stems got longer and longer whilst the leaves got smaller and smaller and eventually vanished). Have replaced it with _L. inclinata _var. 'verticillata', will have to see how that does. Also had an explosion of duckweed but not too fussed really as the current keeps it all in the back corner anyway. Looks quite effective.

I've given the palm grass a pretty aggressive prune as it was trying to escape through the skylight and was flowering like mad. Other emergents and submerged hair grass all doing fine. Still loads of tannins despite fairly frequent water changes.

Some fish photies from this evening (I rigged the old Kessil back up again)  -






















I've got 15_ Iguanadectes spilurus_ and some more _N. eques_ arriving next week


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Is it some fry on the last photo (top right)?


----------



## BigTom

Yup that's one of the Guianacara fry. They're about 1cm long now and I'm just starting to find homes for them.

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## nayr88

Very inspiring! Very much my kinda tank.


----------



## Edvet

Yes, looking horrible. Totaly rubbish. Just pack it up and send it to me.


----------



## tim

Looking really good Tom, a slice of nature captured in glass


----------



## BigTom

Had a bit of a re-arrange, plus my _Iguanadectes_ arrived this afternoon! They're lovely fish but I'll be interested to see how big they get - some sources say 5-6cm, others 10cm.



 

_Guianacara_ juvies will be rehomed soon, they're growing on nicely now -


----------



## Tim Harrison

Fantastic...


----------



## Michael W

Now that is a proper nature aquarium! Absolutely stunning!


----------



## Edvet




----------



## BigTom

Turns out that _Iguanadectes_ are not easy to photograph without flash! AF wasn't cutting it because they wouldn't sit still long enough, but weirdly just using room lights gave better contrast and allowed faster locks, so a couple of keepers. White balance all over the place!








 

I also beefed up the pencilfish shoal


----------



## Samuran

Tom... are you back in Kernow now? I might have to at some point, as long as it isnt too cheeky, come and by a ticket to view


----------



## BigTom

Hey Ben. Yup living it up in Carnon Downs, for the moment at least. Feel free to pop by, tickets are issued in return for rehoming juvenile _Guianacara_, haha.


----------



## Samuran

Umm yeah I've not long moved mate so all I have now is a 3' community tank and my 20L "betta" tank which is now full of cherry shrimp and over growing frogbit... once the roots found the substrate crazyness began.... If I had anywhere to put them I'd snatch them up... I might have to pay with alcohol instead 

Stunning tank mate, I'll drop you a PM or something after the new year fun has passed. I do fear that you may get totally sick of the brain picking tho... I might even bring a note pad haha


----------



## haytch

V. Nice - an amazing eco-system


----------



## BigTom

Pencilfish patrol avec arty lens flare -


----------



## BigTom

I think it's safe to say that _Setaria palmifolia_ makes a pretty robust riparian plant!






The leaves extend another couple of feet up into the skylight and are flowering like mad. Getting a few brown tips so I probably need to ramp up the ferts to keep it happy.

As you can see I also got a piece of curved glass cut as a cover for the front of the tank as I lost a few of the _Iguanadectes_ to jumping - I think they were jumping towards the other lights in the room when startled by the _Guianacara_ chasing each other about in the evenings.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
New one on me, and a quality plant. 





BigTom said:


> Getting a few brown tips so I probably need to ramp up the ferts to keep it happy.


 Might be ferts., but bizarrely because even though it is growing emersed from the fish tank, it is probably low humidity. 

It is a problem you get in the winter with all mono-cots (Orchids, Parlour palms etc) from warm humid environments. 

It happens because the outside air is cool, and even if it is at 100% RH it won't contain much water, when you warm the air up the relative humidity declines. The leaf tips brown because the plants don't have any adaptations to low humidity and water is lost more quickly through the distal leaf stomata than the xylem can replace it, even when the plant is growing emersed from the tank. 

If the brown tips annoy you just cut them back with nail scissors so you just leave a really thin strip of brown tissue. If you cut into the green tissue you will get a brown edge anyway.

cheers Darrel


----------



## BigTom

You could be right Darrel - I had read that it tends to die back in winter even inside. It does seem really humid in the little outside studio it's in however - loads of condensation on the windows, doors and floor each morning (thank you 19 square feet of open topped tanks!). That said I have been running a dehumidifier on low as a result so that probably won't be helping.


----------



## Thrills24

Your name didn't ring a bell at all. But once I saw this sentence 



BigTom said:


> Hi all,
> _*
> Having bidden farewell to the Bucket of Mud*_,



I was shocked both shocked and dumbfounded. And instantly knew who you "were" as in the creator of that legendary self sustaining tank. I must admit, I hope you sold it or gave it away to a good home because whenever I saw that tank on tpt forums. I was stunned. belated congratulations on the success of that tank. Despite being bewildered as to why it's nolonger with us. 

I am a fan. Please excuse my nerd out moment.


----------



## BigTom

Thrills24 said:


> Your name didn't ring a bell at all. But once I saw this sentence
> 
> 
> 
> I was shocked both shocked and dumbfounded. And instantly knew who you "were" as in the creator of that legendary self sustaining tank. I must admit, I hope you sold it or gave it away to a good home because whenever I saw that tank on tpt forums. I was stunned. belated congratulations on the success of that tank. Despite being bewildered as to why it's nolonger with us.
> 
> I am a fan. Please excuse my nerd out moment.



Hah! Yeah sadly I had a protracted house move last year and had to start over again - the tank, fish and plants all went to good homes, albeit separately. If you enjoyed the TPT thread then the UKAPS journal (link in my signature) has a fair amount of extra content.


----------



## Edvet

BigTom said:


> had a protracted house move last year


Actually we made him move to Antarctica to live in a iglo, so he couldn't poke our eyes out with beautifull tanks................sadly he moved to the UK again...........


----------



## BigTom

New video! Think I need to do some hoovering as the hairgrass is collecting a lot of detritus.


----------



## Edvet

Looking ace Sir, hats off
How are you filtering this atm?


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Looking ace Sir, hats off
> How are you filtering this atm?



Just an Eheim 2324. I'm probably not even getting 1x turnover at the moment. The palm grass probably does most of the ammonia removal! 

It does need more flow and more light really, I'm hoping to upgrade both in a couple of months. 

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## Wendal_spanswick

Fantastic Big Tom. One of my favourites.


----------



## sonicninja

Could watch that for hours. Amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## X3NiTH

That looks like one happy habitat!


----------



## Michael W

Lovely vid Tom, now you need to do an Attenborough commentary .


----------



## NatureBoy

Thrills24 said:


> Your name didn't ring a bell at all. But once I saw this sentence
> 
> 
> 
> I was shocked both shocked and dumbfounded. And instantly knew who you "were" as in the creator of that legendary self sustaining tank. I must admit, I hope you sold it or gave it away to a good home because whenever I saw that tank on tpt forums. I was stunned. belated congratulations on the success of that tank. Despite being bewildered as to why it's nolonger with us.
> 
> I am a fan. Please excuse my nerd out moment.



this reads like spam!


----------



## Thrills24

NatureBoy said:


> this reads like spam!



Why on earth would you say that? Admittedly it's a very fan centric post but that tank was pretty much my idea of tank perfection. Please let's not derail the thread.


----------



## sciencefiction

You should be in the wild filming fish Tom  Your videos are always so good and interesting. And your fish look amazing.
I love the idea of just riparium plants on top and a sand botttom with interesting decor, and no other underwater plants. That's going to be my next project one day because it's so easy to keep.
 I can't personally manage with just one light unit and if I want the underwater plants to grow again I need a second water level set of light because the emersed ones have really thrown a huge shadow and my light unit is not penetrating enough any more.


----------



## sonicninja

Hi BigTom,
Could you give a little info on the equipment you've used on this tank? I know it's more self sustaining than many thanks but I'd be really interested what filter, power heads or any other equipment you have. Admittedly I've only broadly read this thread so may have missed this bit 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BigTom

Thrills24 said:


> Why on earth would you say that? Admittedly it's a very fan centric post but that tank was pretty much my idea of tank perfection. Please let's not derail the thread.



Read all right to me Thrills! Although I'm still amazed how much interest the Bucket generated.



sciencefiction said:


> You should be in the wild filming fish Tom  Your videos are always so good and interesting. And your fish look amazing.
> I love the idea of just riparium plants on top and a sand botttom with interesting decor, and no other underwater plants. That's going to be my next project one day because it's so easy to keep.
> I can't personally manage with just one light unit and if I want the underwater plants to grow again I need a second water level set of light because the emersed ones have really thrown a huge shadow and my light unit is not penetrating enough any more.



Yeah I started off planning only one or two plant species, but I might give in to temptation once I've upgraded the lighting and throw a few more into the mix. We'll see.

Emersed shadowing can be a tricky one... one of the advantages of big shallow tanks is having lots of surface area to play with, so it doesn't matter too much if parts of the tank are in the dark. With conventional dimensions I can definitely see how you'd need two lights. I also hang my lights towards the front of the tank so that the shadows are cast towards the back where they make less of an impact.




sonicninja said:


> Hi BigTom,
> Could you give a little info on the equipment you've used on this tank? I know it's more self sustaining than many thanks but I'd be really interested what filter, power heads or any other equipment you have. Admittedly I've only broadly read this thread so may have missed this bit



I wouldn't say this tank was self sustaining really, other than having the massive riparians as extra filtration. It's just running an Eheim 2324 thermofilter (about 1x turnover), an extra 300w heater and a Kessil a150 Amazon Sun (36w LED). Plus some ambient light from the skylight above (no direct sunlight in the winter).


----------



## Thrills24

BigTom said:


> Read all right to me Thrills! Although I'm still amazed how much interest the Bucket generated.



Cheers lol

And that bucket O mud was on every aquatic forum I visited. It was hard to miss. I think the idea of self sustaining done right has an appeal because it's something few have ever really seen. I have always wondered if a small apisto, say Borellii or panduro, would have or could have fit into that fine balance.


----------



## BigTom

Thrills24 said:


> Cheers lol
> 
> And that bucket O mud was on every aquatic forum I visited. It was hard to miss. I think the idea of self sustaining done right has an appeal because it's something few have ever really seen. I have always wondered if a small apisto, say Borellii or panduro, would have or could have fit into that fine balance.



I think Tuncalik tried a pair of A. borelli in his 'biotope in my study' and decided they needed supplemental feeding, but it probably just comes down to tank size. I reckon it'd be doable in something the size of the Bucket with the right microfauna. 

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## Thrills24

Ok Cheers.

Fantastic vid!


----------



## BigTom

New fish day! Added 30 more green neons and *drumroll* 5 _Biotodoma wavrini_.

Photos once they've settled in.


----------



## shwalker

Very nice! What are you feeding them all at the moment?


----------



## BigTom

shwalker said:


> Very nice! What are you feeding them all at the moment?



Erm, mainly a mix of about half a dozen different dried foods from TA Aquaculture and the odd cube of mixed frozen food. Normally there'd be a fair amount of live as well but I don't have much on the go at the moment.


----------



## Edvet

Wel, you know: pics, or it didn't happen.........


----------



## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Wel, you know: pics, or it didn't happen.........



They're quite young (about 2") and pretty skinny (wild caught) so not much to look at yet, but give them a year and hopefully they should be stunners.


----------



## Edvet




----------



## BigTom

And the male Guianacara, who still never shows his spot but is otherwise pretty handsome.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Fantastic Thread  Wonderful Fish. The last photo What a stunning fellow


----------



## BigTom

Neons!





I added some cheap extra lighting by repositioning the room lights above the tank 

Using four fairly cheap ebay 15w GU10 LED spotlights. Beam angle is narrower than I was expecting and the output isn't exactly mind boggling but they're useful for spotlighting some of the wood and plants, and mean I can raise the Kessil slightly so the smaller riparians are all lit now.

The hairgrass has been suffering a bit lately - the 40 odd Guianacara juveniles have started digging it up pretty regularly which probably doesn't help. Going to upgrade the filtration this weekend (been meaning to do that for a while) so should roughly triple the flow and going to have a go with some gluteraldehyde. Never used it before so figured it was worth a play given I got some cheap off Hoggie


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Big Tom, The neons look stunning  Adding a splash of moving colour


----------



## BigTom

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Big Tom, The neons look stunning  Adding a splash of moving colour


Yeah they're ace. They look brilliant when they all school together, although they don't do it all the time (generally after water changes and feeding).


----------



## James O

Stunning as usual Tom!  But those neons are stunning - despite their ubiquity they really steal the show when in numbers and of course in the right tank


----------



## BigTom




----------



## Vinkenoog1977

That's just ridiculously gorgeous.


----------



## alto

Fantastic tank!
have you seen any spawning behavior from the Dicrossus (filamentosus I presume)?


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Very alive!


----------



## BigTom

alto said:


> Fantastic tank!
> have you seen any spawning behavior from the Dicrossus (filamentosus I presume)?



Unfortunately not. The males spent a lot of time displaying to the female but she's utterly disinterested. I bought the males and female from different shops (all I could find locally) and to be honest I wonder if they're from sufficiently different populations to make breeding difficult.


----------



## ADA

Great looking tank and the fish are stunning, love the way it looks like a slice of nature framed by glass, really natural looking.


----------



## BigTom

I'd been managing to resist buying any Apistos until today... we got six _A. hoignei_ in at work and I just couldn't say no (thank God for staff discount!).

I've risked the 'best' pair in a 30cm cube with a few half-grown hockeysticks to see if they'll breed, the other 4 (one definite male, one probable male, two unknown sex) have gone into the display tank.

Immediately after being introduced -






And now I have to stop buying cichlids.


----------



## OllieNZ

Beautiful fish Tom, I know what you mean about needing to stop buying cichlids, I just picked up a pair of protomelas taeniolatus for my tank


----------



## Edvet

.................................................................


----------



## Crossocheilus

Wonderful fish Tom! 

I wish I could keep/breed apistogramma (and dicrossus filamentosus for that matter), but I don't have the space or suitable water for any of these lovely fish...
Could you possibly do a full list of all the fish you have in there? I'm losing track...


----------



## BigTom

Crossocheilus said:


> I'm losing track...



Me too! Pretty much fully stocked now I think, barring special additions if they crop up.

2 adult _Guianacara_ plus 40 juveniles which I really, really should get around to rehoming.
5 _Biotodoma wavrini_
4 _Apistogramma hoignei_
3 _Dicrossus filamentosus_
9 _Iguanadectes spilurus_
10 _Chilodus punctatus/gracilis_
15 _Nannostomus eques_
50 _Paracheirodon simulans_
12 _Otocinclus sp._
4 _Farlowella sp._

I think that's it!


----------



## James O

Just noticed you have Iguanadectes spilurus . 

Was looking for these some time ago with no luck.  Keep us updated on thier growth - I heard 5cm or 10cm but that's one hell of a difference 

Such lovely fish for a lovely tank


----------



## BigTom

James O said:


> Just noticed you have Iguanadectes spilurus .
> 
> Was looking for these some time ago with no luck.  Keep us updated on thier growth - I heard 5cm or 10cm but that's one hell of a difference
> 
> Such lovely fish for a lovely tank



Did I not PM you to say there were some available? Anyway, they arrived at 5cm and are definitely growing, so I'm expecting 10cm.


----------



## James O

I don't think I got a PM but never mind, I'm rather short on tank space anyway 

For now, like many others, I'll have to live vicariously thru you 

Keep it coming


----------



## RynoParsons

Love this tank one of my all time favouritez


----------



## BigTom

James O said:


> I don't think I got a PM but never mind, I'm rather short on tank space anyway
> 
> For now, like many others, I'll have to live vicariously thru you
> 
> Keep it coming



Heh I just checked my message history - 22nd of October I let you know that Silksworth Aquatics had some. You snooze you lose!  

I think they get them in now and again, worth keeping an eye on their FB page.


----------



## James O

D'oh!


----------



## BigTom

Pure UKAPS geekout time - I made a 1m long acrylic spraybar to replace the short, ugly, grey effort that came with my efx600.

Obviously in a 4' wide tank you can't really bounce the flow off the front glass as you would in a normal rectangular tank, so I pointed the angle of every second hole down a bit. Now half the flow shoots straight across to provide surface movement and the other half is directed downwards towards the plants. There's some slightly funky turbulence going on but overall it seems to work pretty well. Only took 10 minutes with a dremel.


----------



## Edvet

Wouldn't the flows bounce somewhere in the middle? Thus decreasing effectivenes. Even if they don't hit the front pane, they should create a circular flow eventually?


----------



## BigTom

I'll do a flow diagram with my awesome paint skills.


----------



## BigTom

BigTom said:


> I'll do a flow diagram with my awesome paint skills.



Clive would probably have a fit, but I can't see any obvious dead spots. There's quite a funky thing going on on the right hand side where the flow in the upper and lower part of the tank is in an almost perfectly opposite direction. That area was very much a dead spot with the normal spraybar.





View is from the front, spraybar mounted on the right hand side.


----------



## James O

Ooh sexy spraybar photography!

In a tank with a footprint that size the best you can hope for is well mixed, I'd have thought.  Not like you want 10x it a 'tope tank.  I can't remember but I guess your running a big Eheim or Fluval?


----------



## BigTom

It's an Aquamanta EFX600 (max 2200lph), so 3-4x turnover.


----------



## Crossocheilus

BigTom said:


> Only took 10 minutes with a dremel.



Could you explain how you did this so as to get straight holes?


----------



## BigTom

Crossocheilus said:


> Could you explain how you did this so as to get straight holes?



Drew a straight line the length of the tube with a marker pen (used a spare second tube pushed against the first as a ruler). 

Then marked off where each hole would be and just went for it free hand with a 3mm drill bit. There's probably a little bit of variation but it's fairly uniform all in all. 

Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk


----------



## Lindy

I find laying the spraybar in a groove in a piece of decking stops it sliding about too.


----------



## Mark-jan

Beautiful aquarium Tom!


----------



## BigTom

Thanks Mark.


----------



## BigTom

This is the pair of _hoignei_ that forced me to buy them all, although they're in their own tank for now.


----------



## Tim Harrison

I'm seriously worried about both you and Ed...firstly Ed doesn't know what a girl looks like (ref Al's Chocolate Lake) and now you have fish forcing you to do stuff...
I think you both need to get out more


----------



## BigTom

Well I couldn't exactly let someone else buy them could I?!


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Big Tom, Stunning Colours


----------



## Mr. Teapot

This doesn’t do my hankering after apistogramma any good… really gorgeous little fish.


----------



## Tim Harrison

BigTom said:


> Well I couldn't exactly let someone else buy them could I?!


They're way too awesome to have passed up...


----------



## Vinkenoog1977

Great looking fish, I'm another victim of the Apisto-curse, and pics like those only make my affliction flare up more...


----------



## BigTom

Kind of old news, but I just spotted another 1cm long hockeystick pencilfish. I'm very impressed that some of these little guys are making it with 150 fish in the tank (including numerous hungry medium sized cichlids).


----------



## Edvet

These are app 1 cm., sure you looked good?


----------



## BigTom

Heh, not that dissimilar.


----------



## BigTom

Evening viewing, with just the spots on -



 

Added some 'giant' hairgrass and some _Ludwigia arcuata_.


----------



## Wendal_spanswick

Hi Big Tom, love this scape. Can I ask where you position the plants growing above the surface? Do you remove all compost from them? Do you have all the roots in the water or just part of them? I'd like to try some plants in a similar way and would appreciate any advice please?


----------



## BigTom

Wendal_spanswick said:


> Hi Big Tom, love this scape. Can I ask where you position the plants growing above the surface? Do you remove all compost from them? Do you have all the roots in the water or just part of them? I'd like to try some plants in a similar way and would appreciate any advice please?



Thanks Wendal. Yes, the riparians are all bare rooted - I wash all the compost off and then just wedge them into the hardscape. Most of the roots are submerged, but I keep the crown of the plant out of the water. They generally take a couple of weeks to adjust (and some seem to go through a root melt and regrowth process).


----------



## BigTom

Some fish -


----------



## Edvet

"Morichales"


----------



## James O

Lurvly!  Especially the iguanadectus & apisto 

Just picked up a pair of apisto borellii 

Apisto fever seems to be catching


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





BigTom said:


> This is the pair of _hoignei_ that forced me to buy them all, although they're in their own tank for now.


Just gorgeous. I've only ever seen pictures before and nothing with that intensity of colour, these look fantastic.

Bob Wiltshire says they aren't too difficult (most _macmasteri_ complex _Apistogramma_ are relatively trouble free), and he is a pretty good source. _<"Apistogramma hoignei - _Dwarfcichlid.com"> (Profile added 30th January 2015).

cheers Darrel


----------



## BigTom

Yeah I wasn't expecting too much to be honest when I saw they were coming in, but as soon as I saw the big male I had to have them. The 'beta' male is pictured in my post from this afternoon and is colouring up rapidly as well. Reasonably sure I got 3m:3f as well, which is nice.

Still want some guttata!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 
Tom I've just posted the link on the <"BCA forum">, so you will probably get a string of begging PM's from rabid _Apistogramma _fans this evening.





BigTom said:


> Still want some guttata!


 Mark Breeze would be your best bet. He might swap?

cheers Darrel


----------



## BigTom

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Tom I've just posted the link on the <"BCA forum">, so you will probably get a string of begging PM's from rabid _Apistogramma _fans this evening. Mark Breeze would be your best bet. He might swap?
> 
> cheers Darrel



Heh yeah, they got a good response on the BCA Facebook page. I've PM'ed Mark a couple of times about guttata but he never replies.


----------



## BigTom

Well, some good and bad news on the fish front. Bad news is, all my_ Biotodoma_ died. They looked like they were doing OK, then the two skinniest ones suddenly went downhill very fast and I lost both within a couple of days. I decided that the supplier probably hadn't wormed them properly and put the whole tank on a course of fenbendazole-soaked food for a few days. Promptly lost the other three. Everything else appears fine, but I'm not terribly happy about the whole thing and hope nothing gets passed to the other fish.

As for good news, acquired four awesome little Rio Atabapo whiptails, and 18 miniscule_ Nannostomus anduzei_.










The _anduzei_ have vanished into the plants, probably forever, but at least I know they're in there and if they ever do show themselves I'll try and get a photo!


----------



## BigTom

Behold the miniature glory of _N. anduzei_ - about 1cm TL and not far off fully grown! I suspect these will have to be my next breeding project.


----------



## naughtymoose

I like the look of those!


----------



## mattb180

Any news on this BigTom?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nice photos.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Big Tom, Love the photos nice fish


----------



## Edvet

Cr@p, just read about the biotodoma's (somehow missed this). In my group 2 died, but those where a few months apart. Rest is still holding up, looking to get some more in a few weeks/ Love the Nannostomus


----------



## BigTom

mattb180 said:


> Any news on this BigTom?



Sorry for the lack of updates here folks. Real life has been a bit busy and the tanks have been largely neglected. The palm grass totally overgrew everything such that nothing else was getting any light at all, so it's become a bit of a monoculture. I have exacted my revenge today by removing the entire plant (which was bigger than I am!) and transplanting it to the pond. I'm going to attempt a full rescape later this week, so expect some proper updates in a few days.


----------



## Edvet




----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Edvet, LOL


----------



## BigTom

That is fairly accurate! 

Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


----------



## James O

Edvet said:


>


There's no way that's for 'personal use'


----------



## Tim Harrison

Wanna bet...just watch him smoke it...


----------



## BigTom

I really should have done a before shot! Best I can do is this ( from 3 months ago, the palm grass had nigh on doubled in size again since then) -




And after much faffing over the last 2 days -




It still needs to clear and I need a lot more plants to replace the ones that didn't grow so well in the dark but I'm pretty chuffed to be able to see beyond 12" deep!


----------



## Andy D

It looks a little different! 

I like the overview shot of the whole area. I could do with a space like that!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nice space...proper man cave...
It's a great hardscape, what are your planting plans?


----------



## BigTom

Yeah the fish cave is pretty ace! Plant plans... going to try and get the old hairgrass going again, a few choice floaters and loads more stems. 

Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Edvet

The space looks ace indeed!


----------



## parotet

Personally I like it like this... a few more plants here and there, and just perfect.

Jordi


----------



## James O

Is that one of your images behind the tank?


----------



## parotet

Tom, I would buy a tank to isolate the computers from the water and I would flood the room... 

Jordi


----------



## EnderUK

how did divert the water fall in there?


----------



## EnderUK

parotet said:


> Tom, I would buy a tank to isolate the computers from the water and I would flood the room...
> 
> Jordi


Reservoir for a watercooled PC and you'd be heating the tank up as well


----------



## BigTom

James O said:


> Is that one of your images behind the tank?



Yeah that's one of mine from Golitha Falls in Cornwall. Not quite Venezuela but will have to do for now. It's the same width as the tank so works quite nicely as a backdrop.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Oh no...my sense of surrealism is playing tricks...I've just had a Terry Gilliam moment - imagine if Golitha Falls did actually discharge in to your aquarium and filled up your fish cave...
...Nice image by the way...
_P.S. no mind altering drugs were abused in replying to this thread.._


----------



## BigTom

Well the Apistos seem to be enjoying the changes - they've finally decided to give spawning a go 










(excuse the white balance inconsistency)

Now if only the ones in the breeding tank would get the same idea!


...edit - haha, deed done and the male has immediately been evicted.


----------



## BigTom

Natural light semi-fisheye shot -



 

Added a lot of hairgrass, _Ludwigia peruviana_, _Pistia stratiotes_ and _Myriophyllum brasiliensis_.


----------



## Edvet

Realy realy realy like this pic, very natural looking


----------



## Tim Harrison

It is pretty awesome.


----------



## Sarpijk

Sublime.


----------



## Wendal_spanswick

Edvet said:


> Realy realy realy like this pic, very natural looking



Totally agree


----------



## BigTom

Cheers chaps! Short video uploading atm...


----------



## BigTom

Click through to vimeo for HD!


----------



## BigTom

PS, just checked and the _A. hoignei _ eggs made it to wrigglers


----------



## tim

Epic as always Big Tom.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The depth makes a huge difference...very nice.


----------



## BigTom

I have to say, watching the Apistos in a large tank is brilliant fun. The male seems to have sussed that some of the eggs hatched successfully and has switched behaviour from trying to court other females to defending the area around the cave, without getting close enough to attract the ire of the brooding female. He even evicted the 5" male Guianacara from his nearby spot under the large bogwood.


----------



## Edvet

Small fish, large heart. Nice pic btw


----------



## BigTom

Fry are now free swimming and have left the cave. Amazingly they haven't all been instantly predated. The female is doing an incredible job keeping everything else away so far. She's looking pretty skinny but I've started pippeting a mix of bloodworm, microworm and 5 micron golden pearls on top of them which is going down well without attracting attention from the other fish. 




 


Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


----------



## alto

Stunning photo!
(& the grasses seem to be doing well)


----------



## BigTom

Oh yeah, I haven't shown the emersed section yet - ferns, _Pistia_,_ Myriophyllum brasilliensis_, _Mayaca fluviatilis_, _Phyllanthus fluitans_.


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Bravo, beautiful shot. Your water is so clear, it's hard to tell where emersed part ends and starts submersed. Really blends into each other.


----------



## Tim Harrison

I had to look twice at that photo, thought it was another one of your outdoor shots...


----------



## Wendal_spanswick

Love it. Real inspiration!


----------



## Edvet

Looking good, could you show some more detail in how you planted?


----------



## BigTom

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Bravo, beautiful shot. Your water is so clear, it's hard to tell where emersed part ends and starts submersed. Really blends into each other.



Thanks! I'm hoping one or two of the surrounding stems will make it to the surface and grow emersed as well, which will really hlep the transition.



Edvet said:


> Looking good, could you show some more detail in how you planted?



It's uber basic. Everything is barerooted, just wedged into cracks in the wood or floating. The _Myriophyllum_ has some sand as well filled in to the cracks to stop it floating off.


----------



## Edvet

Thx , gotta try me some of that


----------



## BigTom

Hah, just came down for my usual cup of tea in front of the tank before work and spotted my male_ Farlowella _with a clutch of precisely 50 eggs on the front glass. Which is awesome, although I have a suspicion they might be hybrids as I rather thought I didn't have any females that were the same species as him.


----------



## mattb180

What are your water parameters and water change routine Tom?


----------



## BigTom

mattb180 said:


> What are your water parameters and water change routine Tom?


Water changes are a bit erratic to be honest, probably about 30 per cent every couple of weeks on average. Rain water in winter, tap in summer. The rain water is actually harder than out the tap down here in Cornwall! 3kh vs less than 1.

I haven't checked the tank parameters in over 6 months, but it was about ph 6.6 and kh 1 from what I remember. Temp 24-26 depending on the weather. I did check the nitrates once out of curiosity and barely registered a trace thanks to the emergent plants. 

Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


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## Edvet

and don't forget the pixiedust you add at midnight each day..........
# jealous............


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## zozo

BigTom said:


> I really should have done a before shot! Best I can do is this ( from 3 months ago, the palm grass had nigh on doubled in size again since then) -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after much faffing over the last 2 days -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It still needs to clear and I need a lot more plants to replace the ones that didn't grow so well in the dark but I'm pretty chuffed to be able to see beyond 12" deep!



Now that's a man cave!.. nice


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## BigTom

Definitely hybrids... both parents are on the eggs now and although I can't remember my previous IDs they definitely have obviously different scute patterns. Bit of a shame but still going to give them a chance.

EDIT - maybe not. The third female I was never sure about an ID and she's hanging around a lot as well.


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## BigTom

Lost a few of the eggs to fungus, but three quarters of them have nice active wriggly embryos!


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## James O

That is a terrific shot


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## Edvet

Can you see if they are boys or girls........


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## BigTom

Cheers James - got a little video uploading now to show the wriggling. Nice big eggs (~3.5mm across) right on the front glass, you can see loads.


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## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Can you see if they are boys or girls........



Haha I'll leave that to the vet I think...


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## BigTom

Getting in some early swimming practice...


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## Lindy

Oh wow....


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## James O

How on earth did you film that?  

What size are they?


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## BigTom

Heh. They're filmed on the kit lens of my E-M5, but with a Raynox macro adapter in place. Working distance is less than 2cm so it's a good job they're on the front glass! The eggs are roughly 3.5mm long, so quite large. 

Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


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## parotet

Absolutely fantastic!!!!


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## BigTom

A second spawn now underway - these are definitely hybrids (compare scute patterns).


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## zozo

Aw! they look like having fun..  Beautifull picture.. The little one also has a nice moustage


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## BigTom

Male with two batches of eggs - 5 days old on the left, 10 days old on the right...



 

...the latter of which began hatching overnight. ~9mm TL fry -


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## Lindy

OMG they are beautiful!


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## BigTom

Hehe, little fatties.


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## Edvet

Any chance on survival in your tank? or will you remove a few?


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## BigTom

I would hope so Ed, but might remove some just in case. 

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## BigTom

Third batch of eggs are now hatching. The adult male has been guarding this spot on the glass for exactly a month now, while the three females have taken it in turns to spawn with him.





And at least some of the previous batches seem to be surviving -





The female _Apisto_ is still in parenting mode deep in a thicket of _Ludwigia_ as well, so presumably still has juveniles under her wing although I haven't seen them directly for weeks.

Plants coming on nicely, will do a FTS tomorrow


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## Edvet

Yes please


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## Tim Harrison

Just amazing...a true nature aquarium, if ever there was one...


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## Andy Thurston

dont know how I missed this breeding activity. just goes to show your skills at setting up a piece of nature.

Awesome!!! keep up the good work and the updates

ps hows the salty going


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## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Yes please



As you wish! Apologies for hit and miss white balance, I haven't the patience to balance room and tank consistently between shots...



 









Looking slightly lopsided at the moment because I trimmed the right hand side pretty hard a couple of days ago. The stems and floaters need chopping back weekly.



Big clown said:


> ps hows the salty going



The salty nano was going really well until a couple of weeks ago when I bought a Wetmorella that turned out to have a touch of whitespot. He's doing fine now but my sharknose goby pair are absolutely riddled with it now - doesn't look good for them unfortunately . Very frustrating, but the corals and inverts are looking great.


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## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Words fail me  Wonderful Journal  Truly stunning fish egg videos. Exquisite Scape 


Sorry playing catch up


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## Edvet

Looking good!
Does the daylight hit it hard? Looks like that. And further just the two Kessils?


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## BigTom

Edvet said:


> Looking good!
> Does the daylight hit it hard? Looks like that. And further just the two Kessils?



Yeah just 2 old Kessil a150s. This time of year it gets a pretty strong shaft of direct sunlight for a few hours in the afternoon, although it sort of roams around the tank and doesn't settle for too long in one place. I have recently had a few tufts of BBA sprouting up on the wood where it catches the light so I might dose some glute for a bit to try and dissuade it. Other than that I just dose a little all-in-one fert when needed _a la_ Darrel's duckweed index.


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## Edvet

Oh i like a bit of sunlight, as long as the tank is mature an it doesnt hit it too early in the day, i believe it will be enhancing health.


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## BigTom

Yeah the corals in the marine nano next to it seem to enjoy it too!


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## RynoParsons

Prodibio spots and velvet works wonders. The marine one. Also feed fish with seachem vitality. Prodibio spots and velvet the marine one is reef safe


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## mattb180

How do you keep it so free of mulm?


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## BigTom

mattb180 said:


> How do you keep it so free of mulm?


All the wood does generate a fair amount of 'soil', which collects in the back corners and the filter presponge. The bottom of the filter is also probably full of it but I never empty it because the efx600 weighs more than I care to lift when full! 

The headstanders and bandit cichlids turn the sand quite a lot and presumably stop it collecting elsewhere. 

I do nothing except clean the presponge if the flow starts dropping. 

Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk


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## BigTom

Fourth Farlowella spawn last night. They're machines. 

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## GHNelson

Nice Tom
Great stuff love the emersed concept too....wish I had your patience and tenacity!
Maybe when I retire!
Kessils are looking good....great lights!
Cheers
hoggie


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## BigTom

Cheers Hoggie. I'm a big fan of the light the Kessils put out, and once modded the old a150s aren't too bad for noise - no more jet engine whine!


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## mattb180

BigTom said:


> Fourth Farlowella spawn last night. They're machines.
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk



That is some going! How many do you have?

What are your water parameters? My lfs has some in but i've heard they are quite difficult?


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## BigTom

mattb180 said:


> That is some going! How many do you have?
> 
> What are your water parameters? My lfs has some in but i've heard they are quite difficult?


1 male and 3 females (adults). Make sure they have nice bellies on them and have been in a while and you should be OK I think. I lost 3 out of 4 from a previous group which were very skinny when I bought them and they all died within 24 hours. 

My water is soft and presumably fairly acidic although it's a long time since I've actually tested it. I keep the tank at 24 degrees but they should be happy warmer. 

They definitely seem to appreciate flow - they'd been in the tank about a year without any sign breeding, then 2 days after adding a wavemaker they started spawning and literally haven't stopped since! 

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## James O

Hey Tom. Stunning as ever 

Love the kessils. Am hoping to get an a160 tuna sun. Single point lighting creates really natural shadows & light play 

In the FTS in post 377 do I spy a lid for the tank?  Avoiding jumpers or keeping the tank from evaporating away under the sun & kessils?


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## BigTom

James O said:


> Hey Tom. Stunning as ever
> 
> Love the kessils. Am hoping to get an a160 tuna sun. Single point lighting creates really natural shadows & light play
> 
> In the FTS in post 377 do I spy a lid for the tank?  Avoiding jumpers or keeping the tank from evaporating away under the sun & kessils?



Nice - I haven't seen the a160s in the flesh but we've got the a360s on the plant sales tank at work and they're lovely. 

The tank has a mini-lid at the front just to stop jumpers (I need to get one cut for the back corner too) - I had problems with the _Iguanadectes_ jumping at night when they first went in. They're pretty skittish and I think would jump towards the computer lights if they got spooked in the night. I'll post a rubbish phone pic so you can see...


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## BigTom

Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


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## James O

BigTom said:


> Nice - I haven't seen the a160s in the flesh but we've got the a360s on the plant sales tank at work and they're lovely.



Seeing is all you do.  They are silent!  Also in love with the controller.  Magnetic back, can run 2 sets of lights, oh and truly idiot proof


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## James O

Nifty curve there Tom. I guess it stops or reduces sag of that span of glass?


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## BigTom

James O said:


> Nifty curve there Tom. I guess it stops or reduces sag of that span of glass?



I just asked for that because I thought it would look nice 

It's supported on 3 sides and isn't very wide so not much sag to worry about.


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## mattb180

BigTom said:


> 1 male and 3 females (adults). Make sure they have nice bellies on them and have been in a while and you should be OK I think. I lost 3 out of 4 from a previous group which were very skinny when I bought them and they all died within 24 hours.
> 
> My water is soft and presumably fairly acidic although it's a long time since I've actually tested it. I keep the tank at 24 degrees but they should be happy warmer.
> 
> They definitely seem to appreciate flow - they'd been in the tank about a year without any sign breeding, then 2 days after adding a wavemaker they started spawning and literally haven't stopped since!
> 
> Sent from my Lenovo K50-t5 using Tapatalk



What do you feed them?


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## BigTom

mattb180 said:


> What do you feed them?



They mainly just graze on all the biofilm to be honest, I also feed New Era catfish and cichlid pellets for the larger fish, which they seem to enjoy as well.


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## BigTom

One of the juvenile _Farlowella_ enjoying the flow form the wavemaker


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## James O

Hehe that's some breeze you got going there!


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...took me a while to find him/her...


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## BigTom

5th Farlowella spawn...  Are they ever going to stop? 

Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


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## James O

Seems they enjoy having babies even more than making them



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BigTom

Had a bit of a find this week - ordered a few _Iguanadectes spilurus_ at work, but were sent a rather tasty mix of both _I. geisleri_ and _I. adujai_ instead 

A little tatty and thin, but should turn into really lovely fish -





Needless to say I've invested in a group of each.


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## Alexander Belchenko

I wonder, how many fish species and fish count you have in your tank? Approx estimate?


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## BigTom

Alexander Belchenko said:


> I wonder, how many fish species and fish count you have in your tank? Approx estimate?



Ermmmm.... off the top of my head

_Guianacara stergiosi_ - 6 (2 adults, 4 subadult offspring)
_Apistogramma hoignei_ - 6 plus some juveniles
_Dicrossus filamentosus_ - 2
_Chilodus punctatus_ - 6
_Iguanodectes spilurus_ - 7
_Iguanodectes adujai_ - 5
_Iguanodectes geisleri_ - 6
_Paracheirodon simulans_ - 50
_Nannostomus marginatus_ - 30
_Nannostomus anduzei_ - 6
_Nannostomus eques_ - 12
_Otocinclus sp._ - not sure, 5-10?
_Farlowella sp._ - 4 plus increasing numbers of juveniles
_Loricaria sp._ 'Rio Atabapo' - 1

Unfortunately I managed to lose a few _Loricaria_ 'Rio Atabapo', _N. anduzei_ and some otos earlier in the year - I don't know exactly why, but I greatly neglected the tank for several months when finishing off my PhD corrections and when I took stock afterwards there were some losses. Probably high organics as a result of very little water changes coupled with low oxygen as filter flow had almost stopped. Now everything is much healthier 

I also lost a few _I. spilurus_, _N. eques_ and _C. punctatus _to jumping in the early days before having the corner covers cut. This was when the adult _Guianacara_ were protecting their babies, and whilst they didn't outright harm any of the other fish I think they would startle them into jumping sometimes.

Every species in this tank except otos has been new to me, so I have made a few mistakes. Lots of breeding going on now though


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## Alexander Belchenko

A lot! That tank has infinity capacity for rare fish species, it seems! Cool!


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## BigTom

Yeah it does sound like a lot of fish when you add it up! The large footprint means that it doesn't feel crowded though - lots of the fish have their own areas that they prefer to hang about it.


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## LfcFan1977

Here's me thinking that your indoor pond is about as wild as it can get, then you respond to a stocking question with "Ermmmm.... off the top of my head". Bravo

I love the idea of a biotope setup but aiming to create a unique ecosystem that can support itself with the least intervention is on another level.


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## BigTom

Some better photos of the_ I. adujai_ -









And _I. geisleri_ -





And today one of the baby Apistos broke cover for the first time - I wonder how many made it?





Getting overrun with baby twigs! Batches 4 and 5 have all hatched now and the male is taking a break - he's lost a lot of condition after 2 solid months egg guarding, hope he bounces back OK.


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## James O

Igs'n'twigs

Super cool!  Natural breeding tank for so many varieties speaks volumes about the quality of your tank Tom


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## Edvet

Nice pics, nice fish, nice tank, nice uhh....... well you get the jist of it


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## BigTom

Does anyone else have to set up a drip to keep their Farlowella eggs wet during a water change?!





Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


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## Greenfinger2

Hi BigTom, Great thinking.  Sounds good to me


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## Tim Harrison

BigTom said:


> Does anyone else have to set up a drip to keep their Farlowella eggs wet during a water change?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


Yep...of course, every water change I've ever done...doesn't everyone?
Good luck, hope they hatch and at least some make it to adulthood.


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## James O

During a weeks holiday to Cornwall I arranged a sneaky visit to meet Tom and see the Poco Pozo.  What can I say..........?

I went to visit Tom at work at Maidenhead Aquatics Carnon Downs just to put a face to the name and it wouldn't be right to not visit a fish shop at least once in a weeks holiday now would? Brilliant shop.  Puts my locals to shame.  All tanks have rocks and plants to provide cover for the inmates.  Result?  Really healthy fish and a great selection too. I've NEVER seen iguanodectes in any shop yet alone the range of apistogramma.  Sweet.

Warmly welcomed at Toms place and a decent cuppa . The tank?  Epic!  Tom was pointing out things to do and change but all I could think was 'I wish my tanks looked like that _after _I changed them' 

A 4ft tank is nice. Maybe even considered big by some.  But having it front to back as well?!?!  That with the natural planting obviously put the inhabitants at ease, dipping in and out of the planted areas or playing near the front glass.  All displaying really natural behaviour and colouring that come when they are totally at ease.  Seeing the male twig on the front glass with his 5th set of eggs was really beautiful.  The head standers bobbing along, nose to the deck.  The emergent growth was inspiring.  So much so that I bought an umbrella plant from Hardy's tropicals the next day   The Kessils hanging from branches has convinced me to forgo the gooseneck and hang my light directly above.  The really fun thing is that by Toms own admission, he's done all of this on a meagre budget and just found solutions rather than racking up the credit card for shiny branded toy . 100kg of mixed sand from the builders yard anyone?

Meeting Tom and seeing the Pozo in the aqua was brilliant.  Probably the highlight of the holiday (don't tell the Mrs) tying with the photography opportunities of Cornwalls landscape  

thanks to Tom for letting me visit.

Ps Tom is even nicer in person than he is on UKAPS


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## GHNelson

Brilliant post!

Cheers James


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## BigTom

Haha, thanks for the review James! Really good to meet you, enthusiastic fish geeks always warmly received. Glad the holiday was a success. 

Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


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## AquaMartin

Hi Tom. After I had just dislocated my jaw watching you're bucket O' mud, and replaced it again, I unfortunately stumbled across this poco pozo. Man! What. a. great. thread!
I must say, you are really inspiring me with your tanks. Just great!

Good luck and i'll definitily subscribe to this thread.


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## BigTom

AquaMartin said:


> Hi Tom. After I had just dislocated my jaw watching you're bucket O' mud, and replaced it again, I unfortunately stumbled across this poco pozo. Man! What. a. great. thread!
> I must say, you are really inspiring me with your tanks. Just great!
> 
> Good luck and i'll definitily subscribe to this thread.



Haha, thanks very much Martin, always nice to know that people enjoy the journals.


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## mattb180

Tom this thread has been without an update for too long!


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## Martin in Holland

mattb180 said:


> Tom this thread has been without an update for too long!


I agree....far to long


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## James O

mattb180 said:


> Tom this thread has been without an update for too long!





Martin in China said:


> I agree....far to long



A nice update with lots of your usual fab photos would be cool 

That or I'll come visit you again


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## BigTom

James O said:


> That or I'll come visit you again



Anything but that! 

I'm away at the moment but I'll do an update when I get back... Looking a little sparse at the moment because it's slowly growing back in after I pulled out a lot of the planting (got fed up trimming the ludwigia every week). 

Sent from my HUAWEI GRA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## BigTom

Shock content update!

I'll try and get some full tank shots later, but here's my bruiser _A. hoignei_ alpha male. Still the boss after all this time, despite sharing the tank with 3 other equal sized males. In the process of creating what I think is probably his fourth spawn...


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## alto




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## BBogdan

Look at this beauty !
Nice fish man.


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## BigTom

Right, so here's an update that I haven't been looking forward to writing.

Things had been ticking along nicely for a long time... I'd added some really nice gold and ruby tetra and a group of orange _Corydoras venezuelanus_. The planting had been redone, mainly with _Eichornia_ and everything was beginning to grow in again. Then I managed to pick up a really nasty strain of medication-resistant whitespot. My green neons have always been extremely susceptible to spot... almost every time new fish go in the tank they seem to have a minor outbreak, but it never spread to anything else and 2 or 3 doses of Protozin always sorted it out. This time, I ended up losing all 50 green neons, all my ruby tetra, all my _Poecilocharax_ and various numbers of_ Iguanadectes_, headstanders and pencilfish. Probably ~100 fish in total. The cichlids and catfish were largely unaffected, but it took nearly a month cycling various treatments to get rid of it altogether. Really horrible.

However, the sudden lack of snack-sized fish has allowed me to buy a group of 6 _Satanoperca daemon_ which have been sat on sale in work for months and months with criminal lack of interest from customers. They've only been in a few days and so far have been 100% peaceful - even the Apistogramma are pushing them around. They have a LOT of growing to do yet though, so we'll have to see what happens.

The other good news is that the new planting is growing in really well. I've thinned the number of species down to just three, barring some stray odds and sods. I now have veritable forests of _Eichornia azurea_ (including some transitioning to floating form - thanks again Marcel!), some _Eichornia diversifolia_ which is just getting going but already looks fantastic and a load of what I think is _Persicaria s_ 'Sao Paulo'.

So, a short video -


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## alto

Awesome video - watched in HD fullscreen on vimeo - it's like having a stream in your home 

Commiserations on the losses


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## rebel

Wow great stuff indeed !


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## Tim Harrison

Fantastic Tom...
Bad news about the infection, glad you managed to eventually get it under control. 
For future reference was it any particular medication that you think made the difference?
Or alternatively what combination seemed to work?


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## BigTom

Thanks chaps. 

Troi, I started out using Waterlife Protozin which has always been effective in the past. 2 weeks of daily dosing didn't shift it, after which I did 9 days of Esha Exit. By this point things seemed to be getting better but that coincided with having already lost all the neons, which were the most heavily affected. I then switched back to Protozin for about 5 or 6 days by which point out had gone. I did large water changes whenever the catfish started acting stressed, but was using slightly higher than recommended doses. 

The spot seemed pretty resistant to both meds, I doubt either would have cleared it up while the neons were still in the tank. 

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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the info Tom...sounds like a very stubborn infection and pretty virulent, wiping out your neons as it did; a great shame.


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## parotet

Hi Tom

awesome video and tank, as usual. It is really amazing the flow you have in such a huge tank... Don't know why but I imagined something closer to the Bucket O' Mud. 
Sorry for the losses

Jordi


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## Madhav

Hi BigTom, Im sorry about the loss, hope you are out of that episode and the tank is back to normal. waiting for updates..


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## Joel S

Hi Tom, since you mention it a few pages (and months) back can I ask if you have anything documenting your marine nano? Since you are my planted-tank idol I'd really love to know your approach to that. I have a 60l Dennerle cube at the moment which is in serious danger of becoming a nano reef.

btw when I studied at Falmouth Art College 16 or 17 years ago Carnon Downs was my LFS. Exciting fact for you.


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## mirv

Hello Tom, we need an upgrade here!


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## zozo

I was wondering how your Eichornia was doing..  Somehowe i totaly missed all this, never got any notification on this thread. No idea why.
Anyway, it is all looking very nice . Very happy it worked out for you. My Eichornia experiment completely failed. Realy awsome idea that poster of the stream above this tank.. How about a Bob Ross style wall painting?..


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## JMorgan

Hi Tom - just read through most of the last 22 pages and just wanted to add a few words of appreciation and gratitude. I'm sure youve inspired many people with the beauty of your natural aquaria, (this and others)  but personally I'm still more inspired by the fact that youve created a mini eco-system in which so many different species of fish can thrive, behave and reproduce naturally. That it also looks spectacular - in all its stages (for me including the heavy tannin stained state) - is icing on the cake.

 As a relative novice just a few years into the hobby, but with a long term goal of wanting to contribute something useful to conserving rare species when I feel I have the experience and skills to do so responsibly, its tanks like yours that give me hope that hobbyists can make a real difference - and that it doesn't have to cost a fortune to do so. Of course I appreciate that the outlay for such a "corner of morichal" isn't peanuts either . . . but it's within most hobbyists grasp, space allowing. In other words I see something like this and feel Ive got something attainable to aim at. 

Though I realise it all happened a while ago now, I was gutted to read about your meds resistant Ich outbreak, so the other thing I'd like to tentatively add - simply because its worked so well for me - is the quarantine procedure suggested by Cory McElroy, owner of the Aquarium Co-Op fish store in Washington state. Specifically his use of a product called Ich-X made I believe by a division of Hikari. He has stated that this has become his "go to" Ich medication because he's not found any "resistant strains" when using it. Which is not the same as saying that every fish is robust enough to recover of course. Its just his experience having treated tens of thousands of fish every year over the past ten years I think.

I apologise profusely if this suggestion seems in anyway patronising, I only do so because for me his approach prompted a radical shift in my own thinking: Seeing a quarantine period as an opportunity to do something more pro-active than just feeding fish up and waiting for problems to develop, while hoping they didn't. I've come to completely respect Cory's premise that given how even the most reputable wholesalers operate, given the high likelihood of exposure to pathogens, and given the endemic nature of parasites in wild-caught fish, its better to assume that even the healthiest looking fish is carrying something nasty than to try to feed them up and wait and see. All the meds are obtainable in the UK through Vitamin Grocer.

Thanks again for sharing your stunning aquarium.


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## Bufo Bill

Hi Tom, do you think that the Green Neons may have been more prone because of no longer being in a Blackwater style set up? 
All the best from Bill.


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## ScapingScotsman

I know this thread hasn't been posted on for a fair wee while, but I have to say, this, along with your bucket o mud and Alistairs puddle are seriously seriously inspiring and goes to show us just how nature almost truly works with its own ecosystems. Such a shame this stopped where it did


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