# New tank EA aquascaper vs 90P



## Deano3 (23 May 2020)

Hi everyone i have sort of convinced the wife to let me have a larger tank  my living room isnt the biggest so thinking of a 90cm, was going to go 60 but if i go straight for the 90 i wont have to upgrade , i am unsure of ada 90p and cabinet prices anyone any idea ?

Dont really want to build another cabinet for 90p so of the 90p too expensive i may go down the aquascaper 900 route as tank and cabinet a good price and only slights different dimensions.

Does anyone that owns these tanks have any opinions ?

Hardware i will more than likely go twinstar light and oase 600 maybe however this wont provide 10x turnover but george uses only 1 on his 1200 so should be large enough surely ? And also co2 will be pressurised hopefully dont use a lot more co2 than my 45p, once all set up i will be getting rid of the 45p to cover some of the costs. 

Thanks and opinions welcome
Dean



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## Sammy Islam (23 May 2020)

I've got a AS900 with "aqua frame" cabinet and using an oase BM600T. 

I'm very happy with it all, the cabinet doors/walls are pretty solid and feel nice to open and close. Big bonus was the cabinet came already built so didn't have to spend ages making sure i've built it properly. The cabinet also has optional/additional leveling feet which can be screwed in if needed. Only negative for me would be that theres no top panel of the cabinet so the tank rests on the "aqua frame", this makes me feel pretty uneasy as the middle isn't supported and i'm very paranoid about failure or bowing - but obviously they know what they're doing so it's just me being weird 😂....


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## Deano3 (23 May 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> I've got a AS900 with "aqua frame" cabinet and using an oase BM600T.
> 
> I'm very happy with it all, the cabinet doors/walls are pretty solid and feel nice to open and close. Big bonus was the cabinet came already built so didn't have to spend ages making sure i've built it properly. The cabinet also has optional/additional leveling feet which can be screwed in if needed. Only negative for me would be that theres no top panel of the cabinet so the tank rests on the "aqua frame", this makes me feel pretty uneasy as the middle isn't supported and i'm very paranoid about failure or bowing - but obviously they know what they're doing so it's just me being weird ....


Thats for that mate does the mat go directly ontop of the frame then then tank ?

You would have thought they would have added a top but as sported on the frame soppose its unnecessary as i was a little skeptical aswel but like you say it obviously works as they know a lot more than me haha.

Is the 600 sufficient and create good flow ?

Any pics of cabinet etc and what style did you go for again ? It says you can change outside design if ever wanted but not sure were would buy the pannels

Thanks dean



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## Sammy Islam (23 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Thats for that mate does the mat go directly ontop of the frame then then tank ?
> 
> You would have thought they would have added a top but as sported on the frame soppose its unnecessary as i was a little skeptical aswel but like you say it obviously works as they know a lot more than me haha.
> 
> ...



The mat is stuck on to the bottom of the tank already, you just have place the tank on the outer frame. I'll send a photo of the inside of the cabinet as theres like 1 on the net, so that's why i was shocked when there was no top panel. I have the anthracite grey version which is great and smooth looking. 

Yes the BM600 is enough for flow IMO but depends on your hardscape design i guess, i would assume it would be great with an island style scape. I do have a little powerhead in the opposite corner but its only like 400-500lph so it doesn't batter the rotala.


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## Ady34 (24 May 2020)

Hi Dean. 
I guess the main factors are budget, cabinet style/colour options and size. If budget is no issue then the choice is simply aesthetics within your living environment both how it looks and how it fits. The ea is 5cm wider which is really nice for scaping, but only if it fits your living area as it does make the tank and cabinet encroach into a room significantly more if space is tight.  
Maybe cut out a cardboard floor plan template, maybe even make a full cabinet size template to get a feel for how it fits within the space, it will help visualise the impact and give you a better idea. You could rule the ea out immediately if it simply feels to big.
The ea tanks do have more cabinet colours, but again it’s all down to the individual and the budget.
Cheerio,


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## Deano3 (24 May 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Hi Dean.
> I guess the main factors are budget, cabinet style/colour options and size. If budget is no issue then the choice is simply aesthetics within your living environment both how it looks and how it fits. The ea is 5cm wider which is really nice for scaping, but only if it fits your living area as it does make the tank and cabinet encroach into a room significantly more if space is tight.
> Maybe cut out a cardboard floor plan template, maybe even make a full cabinet size template to get a feel for how it fits within the space, it will help visualise the impact and give you a better idea. You could rule the ea out immediately if it simply feels to big.
> The ea tanks do have more cabinet colours, but again it’s all down to the individual and the budget.
> Cheerio,


Totally agree i was going to do that and i know thats my only concern the 5cm doesnt sound much but may look a lot.

It is going on the left were you walk into room aswel so you will walk past the side of it. Would love a 90p but unsure of the cabinet prices or do i got DIY again and make my own. Anyone have any idea of prives of the ada cabinets or a general idea ?

I will get in touch with horizon this week for prices i think as they can get them in. Start putting a list together.

You think the oase 600t be good enough mate and i will get the powerful twinstar 900. Still trying to sort problems on my tank seem to showing some deficiencies since started dosing only 1 pump of tropica so may up to 2 again.

Dean

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## Deano3 (26 May 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> The mat is stuck on to the bottom of the tank already, you just have place the tank on the outer frame. I'll send a photo of the inside of the cabinet as theres like 1 on the net, so that's why i was shocked when there was no top panel. I have the anthracite grey version which is great and smooth looking.
> 
> Yes the BM600 is enough for flow IMO but depends on your hardscape design i guess, i would assume it would be great with an island style scape. I do have a little powerhead in the opposite corner but its only like 400-500lph so it doesn't batter the rotala.


Any pics of cabinet mate, priced up the ada but the cabinet is over £1k just too much for me so think the aquascaper is the way forward plus like idea of pre build cabinet.

What colour dod you go for ? White is easy choice as goes anywere but my living room has grey wood floor and wood doors so white and grey scheme really thinking of the concrete colour maybe hard to find pics online.

Dean

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## Deano3 (26 May 2020)

Thinking of putting it were that mat is also what colour is the cabinet i have a picture of is it the concrete colour?

Thanks dean






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## Shinobi (26 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Totally agree i was going to do that and i know thats my only concern the 5cm doesnt sound much but may look a lot.
> 
> It is going on the left were you walk into room aswel so you will walk past the side of it. Would love a 90p but unsure of the cabinet prices or do i got DIY again and make my own. Anyone have any idea of prives of the ada cabinets or a general idea ?
> 
> ...




I believe a ADA wood cabinet for a 90P would retail at around 8-900£ in the UK.


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## Sammy Islam (26 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Any pics of cabinet mate, priced up the ada but the cabinet is over £1k just too much for me so think the aquascaper is the way forward plus like idea of pre build cabinet.
> 
> What colour dod you go for ? White is easy choice as goes anywere but my living room has grey wood floor and wood doors so white and grey scheme really thinking of the concrete colour maybe hard to find pics online.
> 
> ...



Went for anthracite grey, will post some pics in a bit mate sorry i totally forgot.


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## Deano3 (26 May 2020)

Shinobi said:


> I believe a ADA wood cabinet for a 90P would retail at around 8-900£ in the UK.


Even still thats too much for cabinet alone for me or would have went that route. cheers for that.

Dean

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## Deano3 (26 May 2020)

I think i like the concrete grey, also will tank be ok near a radiator well 40cm or so away as i am putting were my current tank is.

Thanks dean

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## alto (26 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> radiator well 40cm or so away


That’s close enough to have some effect on tank temperature but should just mean that your aquarium heater runs less frequently

I wouldn’t choose “concrete grey” for floor aesthetics (furniture contrasting with floor is usually more appealing (and what our eye is “trained” for) but if it’s your preferred cabinet ...


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## Deano3 (26 May 2020)

alto said:


> That’s close enough to have some effect on tank temperature but should just mean that your aquarium heater runs less frequently
> 
> I wouldn’t choose “concrete grey” for floor aesthetics (furniture contrasting with floor is usually more appealing (and what our eye is “trained” for) but if it’s your preferred cabinet ...


Thats alto, like i say my living room is grey themed and white i could go gloss white or concrete grey think them are only 2 that will go tbh, never seen in person, have you seen them colours in person ?

Thanks dean

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## alto (26 May 2020)

Sadly not in the UK so I don’t have to make this choice 

It would be much easier if able to see color options in person - or even decent photos of the finished cabinets


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## Deano3 (27 May 2020)

Decided defently the AS900 in concrete grey with twinstar 900 SA ( is this a good light for reds aswel) with biomaster 600 thermo.

Think i may try sticking with in tank diffuser rather than inline.

Harscape will be some of my large manzinita wood and most likely mini landscape rock to keep price down as it all costs a lot haha.

I need help as have no idea what pump to buy to pump water from bucket in sink into the tank ? And should i buy a few taps for hoses ? Probably be a lot more i havnt even thought of like thermometers and larger hose and lilly pipes and more but may get tank and light then wait till next payed etc to get soil and other bits etc really looking forward to a large scape.

Dean

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## Deano3 (29 May 2020)

Hi everyone want to start getting bits ordered soon, do many people have any experience with the twinstar sa lights ? Are they good for reds etc and better than just the s models?

Also what do you think is best for co2 i have enjoyed the intank diffuser on the 45 but thinking in larger tank may be harder to evenly distribute the co2 so not sure to go inline. I used to find the inline pipes keep coming loose and was always paranoid it leaked so intank eliminated that worry.

Also need help on what pump to buy to pump water from sink to tank and if its easier buying some enheim taps for water changes.

All opinions and help be great
Thanks dean

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## alto (29 May 2020)

Twinstar S and SA only differ by tank mounting base - see photos on AG site

If going with an intank diffuser, I’d look at placing 2 diffusers - a proper manifold would be the best way to do this
(though I did run my 90 x 45 just fine with a single Tropica diffuser - soft acidic water and limited hardscape)

I don’t know about Eheim taps for water changes - I have a Python System and actually removed the ON/OFF switch 

I believe George Farmer mentions which pump he uses to return from tap (as does @ Richard40 “_I use an Oase 1000 pump which pumps water from a bucket in my kitchen sink (primed) straight back into the tank to do large water changes._ ” )


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## Deano3 (30 May 2020)

alto said:


> Twinstar S and SA only differ by tank mounting base - see photos on AG site
> 
> If going with an intank diffuser, I’d look at placing 2 diffusers - a proper manifold would be the best way to do this
> (though I did run my 90 x 45 just fine with a single Tropica diffuser - soft acidic water and limited hardscape)
> ...


Thanks for that alto i currently have the twinstar e is the sa a lot more powerful and have good colour for red stems etc ?

I may end up going for inline for ease on the larger tank as worried wont get good distribution.

And i will check out georges vid and see what pump he uses thanks mate just trying to get everything sorted before go ahead and order 

Thanks again
Dean



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## Jayefc1 (30 May 2020)

Hi dean I use a cheap pond pump.from Amazon 1500lph think it was like a tenner and it's really good
The S light is loads more.powerfull than the E I have both and you can see the difference much better colour rendition on the S version alto is correct the SA is just an adjustable mount to the A that is set to lenth both would fit the 900
But there are other options in the same price bracket for example @CooKieS loves his vivid 2 apparently it's a lot stronger and better for reds not used it myself but a option to consider maybe
I would use inline for co2 in a tank that size would be a much better way to distribute the bubbles you could always by a small cheap filter to use as a reactor like @Zeus. In Olympus is callings thread also if worried about the inline coming lose nothing a couple of jublie clips wont fix
As for taps I dont think you need them there is a chance they might lower the flow and you would still need to take Lilly of to clean them.
But also if it was me and I had the choice I would go with the Ada 90p maybe works out more expensive but it's ADA and your cabinet builds are good so would probably work out cheaper and it's still an ADA  
Hope this helps cheers
J


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## Deano3 (30 May 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Hi dean I use a cheap pond pump.from Amazon 1500lph think it was like a tenner and it's really good
> The S light is loads more.powerfull than the E I have both and you can see the difference much better colour rendition on the S version alto is correct the SA is just an adjustable mount to the A that is set to lenth both would fit the 900
> But there are other options in the same price bracket for example @CooKieS loves his vivid 2 apparently it's a lot stronger and better for reds not used it myself but a option to consider maybe
> I would use inline for co2 in a tank that size would be a much better way to distribute the bubbles you could always by a small cheap filter to use as a reactor like @Zeus. In Olympus is callings thread also if worried about the inline coming lose nothing a couple of jublie clips wont fix
> ...


Thanks jay i will have a look on amazon for cheap pumps.

I will also go inline rather than intank for the 900 as you say be much easier for me, and the aquascaper is just a easier option as i wont have to build cabinet and paint it etc plus my wife likes the concrete grey colour as matches out living room and struggle to fimd time lately so think will just get cabinet and tank in a set.
Thanks for the kind words though as i was debating ada 90p just think aquascaper makes more sence and they look really good.

As for lights i have had great success with twinstar so think going to stick with what i know and get twinstar SA and should be plenty for me to hopefully get aquarium thriving.

Think i will also go EI on next tank as tropica will work out expensive for pre made and hopefully i get good results from powders from APF, i am hoping once all set up i can do 1 water change a week as would fit my worklife, obviously will do a lot more first month.

Thanks dean

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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Also need help on what pump to buy to pump water from sink to tank and if its easier buying some enheim taps for water changes.








Spray bar pointing up the glass for fast return without any disruption if in a rush. Eheim pump to suit e.g. 1000, 2000, 3000 etc is usually a good investment for multiple jobs.

Or simple if you have a mixer tap:


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## Deano3 (31 May 2020)

I do have a mixer tap and have one of those fittings for my tap just a nightmare to try get right temp but may be simpler as already have the bits save a few pennines. 

Is your drain hose just inlet with open hose on other end ?

Thanks for the pics mate sometimes hard to visulise.

just a quick question in first week when do water changes do you clean glass etc every single day or literally just drain and refil the water ?

Also do you dose EI

Dean

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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Is your drain hose just inlet with open hose on other end ?



Yup





Drain the tank to the rain barrel or straight onto the kids thirsty little farming project. Double use.








Deano3 said:


> just a quick question in first week when do water changes do you clean glass etc every single day or literally just drain and refil the water ?



Personally I leave sand out of the equation for the first couple of weeks so the glass can be cleaned easily without risk. It is a three minute job and only needs doing if it needs doing, visually check. Most days no though.

For the first week or two I park a 220l barrel next to the tank (my wife loves the barrel, you can tell by the steam pouring out of her ears just how excited she is to see it sitting there in place of the sofa 😂).

So much water exchange in the first two weeks that having water ready to go, to the desired parameters  means it’s done quickly - which means it will get done and there’s no excuses for being lazy.


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## SRP3006 (31 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> .
> 
> For the first week or two I park a 220l barrel next to the tank (my wife loves the barrel, you can tell by the steam pouring out of her ears just how excited she is to see it sitting there in place of the sofa ).



Haha that mad me chuckle, similar here, I just get asked 'do you really need to leave that barrel there and how many water butt's do you really need in OUR garden'

No wastage of water is what i tell her


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Also do you dose EI



This deserves a longer answer really...

Tend to try as many products and methods as possible. I think a lot more knowledge can be garnered through experience and observation than hypothetical musings if that’s your goal.

In some tanks Paul Sears and Kevin Conlin’s PMDD+PO4 has worked well. Others, fast stems or huge plant mass I will go EI. Sub 50l tanks I use TNC Complete as tend to do water changes in a less frequent fashion. Also it puts money in a retailers pocket and supports TNC, a British company and I am biased to supporting British business where possible. Even ADA’s expensive water works brilliantly if you subscribe to rich soil, high light, balanced Co2 and ruthless regimented water changes and maintenance. Other tanks without livestock I dose an all in one twice a month and do water changes monthly, growth is slow but really clean.

Another component... 120 TDS controller water using RO like Green Aqua? Simple super hard tap like Aquarium Gardens? How much hardship do you want in your life? Happy to answer methods for both and their pro & cons but don’t want to derail your thread.

At the end of the day your not paying for a raw product from branded fertiliser sellers, your buying their controlled fertiliser regime. If you go salts you are buying raw and it’s your job to work it out, which can be fun and informative.

Tend to think less about adequate fertilisation these days and more about speed, form and compactness of growth. Also, how much maintenance do I want to deal with.

So do I use EI, yes... when applicable. But it isn’t the only tool in the toolbox. Also phytohormones (plant hormones) at startup as an additional topic...


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## Deano3 (31 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> This deserves a longer answer really...
> 
> Tend to try as many products and methods as possible. I think a lot more knowledge can be garnered through experience and observation than hypothetical musings if that’s your goal.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that very informative, so EI is about watching plants and adjusting as necessary, i currently use tropica and have good results but will work out to expensive for a 900 for me.

The advice is great and helps me massively as a lot of things i am concerned about as such a large investment with tank and lights and filter etc.

So i will get some new hose and use direct from mixer tap to fill the tank and make a hose up for draining like yours 

Laughed about your better half and the barrel 

I am not the most knowledgable on dry salts etc and what defficencys certain lack of ones cause was debating buying a starter kit from APF but see then do a separate iron one aswel.

Should the strater kit be ok ? May also buy auto doser so dont forget etc.

In first week when doing daily water changes do you literally just drain and refil unless noticable algae or diatoms on rocks etc.

Thanks dean

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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> so EI is about watching plants and adjusting as necessary





Deano3 said:


> I am not the most knowledgable on dry salts etc and what defficencys certain lack of ones cause was debating buying a starter kit from APF but see then do a separate iron one aswel.



You don’t really need to be. The whole principle  of EI was ‘more than enough’ so you don’t have to think too hard. This mentality has its limitations, yes. Abundance doesn’t equal uptake sometimes.

APF starter kit great place to start, comes with instructions and is simple. And simple is good, allows you to focus on other things like good Co2 management and light as well as watching your plants progress.

Just a suggestion and it’s what I do, take it or leave it.... In addition to the starter kit, a bag of potassium sulphate and magnesium sulphate may be handy at startup. I don’t dose full macros in the first month on EI tanks with aquarium soil, plenty in the substrate to carry it through and some in the tap more often than not. Just micros and add potassium and magnesium sulphate alongside. Easier with all the water changes in the first few weeks too as its daily dosing. So first month is this:





Bottle of MgSO4 and K2SO4. Bottle of micros.

Most tap won’t have a lot of magnesium in the water and consistency with potassium day to day helps photosynthesis along. Also if you abstain from full macros first month you won’t have phosphate blocking iron uptake.

If you want to look for deficiencies then chucking some frogbit in at startup helps give you some feedback. It’s not Co2 limited as it is a floating plant, leaving you a process of elimination with other nutrients. Adds additional o2 as well.








Deano3 said:


> In first week when doing daily water changes do you literally just drain and refil unless noticable algae or diatoms on rocks etc.



Yes, on high tech setups. Maybe wipe the glass if it needs it. Waft a hand around to move any decaying leaves so they get sucked up when draining. Main thing is sticking to water changes as most plants come grown emersed. As you submerge them all the decaying organics as the plants shed themselves are polluting your water column. No better filter than a water change at startup.

When dosing just micros and some magnesium and potassium for the first month, have found diatoms tend to be less of an issue. Diatoms use light and your inorganic fertiliser to proliferate, so even more reason to leave full macros out of the water column for the first month. As your plants get going and your tank matures they become less of an issue.

After the first month... micros and macros alternating each day as per APF instructions. Watch your frogbit. Enjoy your tank and start thinking about what fish you like.

** Just for the humour aspect I will add you could just use TNC Lite for the first month then switch to TNC Complete for the same setup as outlined above 😂

It’s back to...



Geoffrey Rea said:


> At the end of the day your not paying for a raw product from branded fertiliser sellers, your buying their controlled fertiliser regime. If you go salts you are buying raw and it’s your job to work it out, which can be fun and informative.


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## Deano3 (31 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You don’t really need to be. The whole principle of EI was ‘more than enough’ so you don’t have to think too hard. This mentality has its limitations, yes. Abundance doesn’t equal uptake sometimes.
> 
> APF starter kit great place to start, comes with instructions and is simple. And simple is good, allows you to focus on other things like good Co2 management and light as well as watching your plants progress.
> 
> ...


Wow that was very informative, i have been writing bits down here and there lately to try and help make some of the information sink in and hopefully help me in future.

I need to learn the names of the dry ferts and what is in the micros and macros and why.

I will certainly try what you recommended and wont dose full macros as seems logical what you are saying and makes sence. Defently going the EI route. When you say dont dose full macros what you recommend just 1/4 macros one day then full micros next etc or miss odd day of macros

Going to email horizon tomorro and get tank and lights ordered up sure i will have many more questions but thanks for taking time to answer mate.

Dean

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## Ady34 (31 May 2020)

Hi Dean, 
If you haven’t read this then it’s a great thread with all the info you could want 
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-using-dry-salts.1211/


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## Jayefc1 (5 Jun 2020)

If your like me @Deano3 you will need to read that about 20times but wow it is so so so good at explaining EI its I
My go to thread all the time


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## Deano3 (5 Jun 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> If your like me @Deano3 you will need to read that about 20times but wow it is so so so good at explaining EI its I
> My go to thread all the time


100 percent agree it is brilliant,i now have a note pad a wright down bits and bobs that are imprtant in layman terms, i can never rember the names for the powders etc but will defently be implementing EI next scape i alsp have a terrible memory  so hopefully will help and i can flick through it.

So much to remember in this hobby but you relise when watching geroges live stream or something similar how much you have actually picked up over the years. But always more to know sometimes people go in depth about how plants work etc and i can never understand or take it in but i gues dont need to know everything just a little about most of it haha.

I was working my way through the replies yesterday will do same later when get time.

Dean

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## Deano3 (6 Jun 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You don’t really need to be. The whole principle of EI was ‘more than enough’ so you don’t have to think too hard. This mentality has its limitations, yes. Abundance doesn’t equal uptake sometimes.
> 
> APF starter kit great place to start, comes with instructions and is simple. And simple is good, allows you to focus on other things like good Co2 management and light as well as watching your plants progress.
> 
> ...


Ordered the starter kit and that comes with magnesium sulphate and ordered potassium sulphate so should be all set, would you add the potassium sulpate to one of the bottles with the other chemicals ?

Also do we get any discount from APF ?

Thanks dean

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## Geoffrey Rea (6 Jun 2020)

Deano3 said:


> would you add the potassium sulpate to one of the bottles with the other chemicals ?



No. That I personally make up separately (potassium sulphate and magnesium sulphate) and dose alongside micros everyday for the first four weeks at startup. Basically leaving out nitrate and phosphate for the first four weeks of startup then going full EI after week four.

This presumes you’ve planted heavily and are doing as follows:

Week 1 - water changes daily
Week 2 - water changes every two days
Week 3 - water changes twice per week
Week 4 - one water change per week

The rationale is you have plenty of nitrate and phosphate in your soil, enough to carry you through the first month. Have found diatoms to be far less of an issue this way and generally a cleaner tank through the first month.

Depending on your water (if it’s hard like here and high in calcium carbonate but lacking magnesium and potassium from the tap) adding in the magnesium and potassium should make your plants more able to uptake nutrients.

Just understand this is what I do @Deano3 , most folks just go straight to full EI from the get go as per APF’s instructions. If it’s simpler for you just follow APF’s instructions, either way will get your tank going 




Deano3 said:


> Also do we get any discount from APF ?



Not sure on that one. It would be news to me if so.


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