# Hydroponic culture



## Alejandro (5 Mar 2018)

Hola:
I want to start a hydroponic culture of aquatic plants. Is there a tutorial to start?
As far as I could see, the ebb and flow system is used.
But what nutrient solution do they use? What is the period of flooding and drainage?
Muchas gracias.


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## foxfish (5 Mar 2018)

Do you mean commercially or on a large scale?


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## Angus (5 Mar 2018)

i know dennerle use a inlet outlet system on their growing trays, very simple actually, you can see it in this video i have timestamped here


it won't let me do a second timestamp, but the second part is at 15:25


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## Alejandro (5 Mar 2018)

I think commercially, on a small scale, to first learn.
As for Dennerlen, I've already seen the videos. Seeing these videos I decided to study hydroponics.
The problem is that my colloquial English is not good. I can read anything technical.
In any part of the video, does it say about the time intervals, when the tables are flooded and dry? Explain, something, about the nutrient solution they use?
Muchas gracias por responder


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## Gill (5 Mar 2018)

These are good videos for a simple home system.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hydroponics+bell+siphon


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## Angus (5 Mar 2018)

Alejandro said:


> I think commercially, on a small scale, to first learn.
> As for Dennerlen, I've already seen the videos. Seeing these videos I decided to study hydroponics.
> The problem is that my colloquial English is not good. I can read anything technical.
> In any part of the video, does it say about the time intervals, when the tables are flooded and dry? Explain, something, about the nutrient solution they use?
> Muchas gracias por responder


Tables are fed water 3x a day, water exits the table via overflow at opposite end, water is treated with a specific nutrient mix that is a dennerle secret, i imagine it is some sort of NPK+trace, obviously they will not give too much information as it is a trade secret.


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## dw1305 (6 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 
You can buy small flood and drain and aeroponics systems aimed at "grow your own" Tomato* growers. For most aquatic plants you can grow them in permanent "flood", with a cover over them to maintain humidity. 
* other crops may be available. 

Have a look at @Andy Thurston's <"Andy's HC propagator">.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (6 Mar 2018)

The watering schemes and or type of fertilization used depends on type of substrate and which kind of plant you like to grow on it.

90% of the nurseries grow plants on Rockwool, it holds water very well. It doesn't need a constant watering scheme.
Depending on what you grow on it, watering it a few times a day or maybe few times an hour can be sufficient. To know you are watering enough schemes can be set to drain 10% of the total volume added. Rockwool has a pH of +/- 8, this is a bit on the high side for optimal fertilization, thus the fert solution needs to be lowered to desired value ph and constantly monitored.. For the rest it is completely inert and clean. There for it also has special complete Rockwool fert solutions available for it likely a more acidic solution than for other types of media. 

As for example PU foam that can be used as grow medium.. But this holds less water than Rockwool, it is less dense, more aerated and dries out sooner.. Thus this requires a different watering scheme. Best to have it constantly watered and drained in a 24/7 cycle. Because it is a less dense more dirt collectiong medium than rockwool it will have EC issues which need to be monitored closely.

And so on and on, each medium requires a different work around, fert and watering regime to be used optimaly depending what you are growing in it. 
It's possible to buy complete fert solutions pre mixed to be ideal for a typical kind of substrate, like Rockwool fert mix, Coco fert mix, Dirt soil fert mix etc. etc..  

For ornamental and or hobby use it al doesn't realy mater that much what substrate you choose, baket clay based substartes like Hydro Pellet or Ceramis are ideal. For combined fitering purpose, fritted glass or lava rock based substrates with a good drainange are ideal. If lifestock is involved than fert contents and schemes should be safe for the lifestock in the water.


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## Angus (6 Mar 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> You can buy small flood and drain and aeroponics systems aimed at "grow your own" Tomato* growers. For most aquatic plants you can grow them in permanent "flood", with a cover over them to maintain humidity.
> * other crops may be available..
> 
> cheers Darrel


i need a haha react, not just a like.... 

another thing to add, i have seen that dennerle use some sort of substrate or fertiliser mix inside the rockwool during the first planting, but when you take the pots off their plants, there is nothing inside the rockwool.


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## zozo (6 Mar 2018)

I think even if Dennerle us saying it's a company secret, there aint much secret going on with growing on rockwool.  Plants need NPK and Micros and can benefit from some grow boosters like root stimulators and or bloom stimulators if you want plants to flower and polinate them. And a somewhat regulated climate all depending in the species you grow.

If course a company like Dennerle likes to play the secret number one , like Tropica might do as well. Like every supermarket claims to be the cheapest of all. And how's that even possible all beeing the cheapest?  Duh?. 

But that doesn't take away it all is rather very dynamic and nothing constant. If there would be a secret than there are likely a ton of secrets. And the most important secret is working clean and look at the plant, knowing it and give it what it asks for if necessary.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Mar 2018)

Aquasabi use an ebb and flow system, this might prove insightful 
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/aquasabi-insights.42312/


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## dw1305 (6 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 





Tim Harrison said:


> Aquasabi use an ebb and flow system, this might prove insightful


Perfect, I was looking for that earlier, but I could remember who the company was. 

Very high-tec.

cheers Darrel


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## Angus (6 Mar 2018)

Holy moly that set up is pornographic almost...


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## Alejandro (6 Mar 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Aquasabi use an ebb and flow system, this might prove insightful
> https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/aquasabi-insights.42312/


Guauu!!!!
Beautiful pictures.
In the last image, where you can see all the ordered bottles, is that the nutritious solution they use? Can anyone recognize the trademark?


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## Angus (6 Mar 2018)

https://www.aquasabi.com/nutrients/


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## Alejandro (6 Mar 2018)

fertilizers for aquarium?. Will they use these fertilizers instead of conventional hydroponic solutions?


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## Angus (6 Mar 2018)

Alejandro said:


> fertilizers for aquarium?. Will they use these fertilizers instead of conventional hydroponic solutions?


They manufacture those i think those might be stock shelves for the online shop, not sure if that is the fertiliser they are using in the actual ebb and flow system.


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## Alejandro (7 Mar 2018)

I'm going to ask them


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## Napoleon (7 Mar 2018)

I've used hydroponic fertiliser for my fish tank, it's much cheaper than anything for aquascape 
GHE flora serie was the best  and I used it to grow emmersed aquatic plants too


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## Edvet (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> much cheaper than anything for aquascape


I would think EI dry salts would be cheaper?


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## zozo (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> I've used hydroponic fertiliser for my fish tank, it's much cheaper than anything for aquascape
> GHE flora serie was the best and I used it to grow emmersed aquatic plants too



The difference in aquarium (suitable) fertilizer (if fish are added) and regular fertilizer for emersed growth is mainly the nitrogene source.
If we use dry salts we add for example KNO3, plants can take up NO3 readily from the water as food source.. Regular fertilizers can use NH4+ as nitrogine source from Ureum and Ammonium which is toxic for our lifestock in high concentration. For us this nitrogen source first needs to be biologicaly converted in the substrate or in our case also the filter into the less toxic N# molecule.

Not saying regular fertilizers are absolutely unsuitable for aquarium with lifestock but you are definitively at risk and on the edge of killing things if it accumulates into toxic levels. Depending on your stocking levels a tank produces already it's own share of ammonium, than adding extra is not always a good idea without controling very closely what you are doing and knowing what  and how much you are excactly adding.


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## ian_m (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> I've used hydroponic fertiliser for my fish tank


Often contain ammonium compounds, fine and cheap for plants & hydroponics but very toxic for fish.


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## Napoleon (8 Mar 2018)

I do have fish in my tank and they are perfectly healthy


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## Napoleon (8 Mar 2018)

You seen to know a lot zozo your fish tank must be amazing!! Any pics ?
Dying to see it


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## kadoxu (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> You seen to know a lot zozo your fish tank must be amazing!! Any pics ?
> Dying to see it


This is borderline blasphemy around here mate... 
@zozo 's Mission Bathtub is one of the threads that make people come back to UKAPS:
2016 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2016.41131/
2017 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2017.49096/
2018 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2018.52227


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## zozo (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> I do have fish in my tank and they are perfectly healthy



Yes relatively they might be, still, but with adding toxins you are on the edge. Fish can only do what they do and in our observation we do not have very much to determine health or well beeing other than behaivor and color. They can not tell you "Hey boss!? I got a chronical headage, or my eyes are constantly burning or i got an ich in my gills. Same as if you got a running nose you still can have fun, go out and look at your best. But still it's a sign to take notice off that you might need to change something like close the bedroom window at night.

They can suffer rather a long time before they reach that tipping point and show stress.. They are kinda addapted to survive less ideal periodes, maybe even without feeling bad. We cannot know what they feel.. But once fish shows distress especialy the smaller ones 90% of the times it is far to late and beyond any help.Most medical treatments are harsh on the fish and more oftenly only an unpleasant adjournment to a certain death.

So all we can do is to oblige ourself to use our logic consensus and take precautions preventing it from happening.



Napoleon said:


> You seen to know a lot zozo your fish tank must be amazing!! Any pics ?
> Dying to see it


Thank you. The majority of what i learned from the behind the scenes issues, is here at UKAPS. From long term expert members as @dw1305, @ceg4048 and many others. And i'm just helping with repetitive sharing and spreading the word. That's what learning and staying sharp is all about, repetition..  Amazing tanks? I do not know, i'm not the experienced scaper with several awsome price worthy showcase layouts per year. But i'm very keen on keeping it long term healthy as far as possible seen from every aspect. That's most important to me personaly. If it looks good is a mater of taste. Only have 2 aquarium journals i realy need to update a lot more often. Both are still running strong, got a 3th one without lifestock to experiment with i actualy never show, nothing special going on.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/my-first-3-of-life.38484/
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/2nd-the-stove.38872/




kadoxu said:


> This is borderline blasphemy around here mate...
> @zozo 's Mission Bathtub is one of the threads that make people come back to UKAPS:
> 2016 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2016.41131/
> 2017 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2017.49096/
> 2018 - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mission-bathtub-2018.52227



 Thak you for you kind words..


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## dw1305 (8 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 





ian_m said:


> Often contain ammonium compounds, fine and cheap for plants & hydroponics but very toxic for fish.





Napoleon said:


> I do have fish in my tank and they are perfectly healthy


We have a thread on this, <"Off the shelf fertiliser....">.  Apologies for the Smilies, it is if you type : P without the space,  you get a smiley face.

cheers Darrel


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## Napoleon (8 Mar 2018)

@kadoxu 
Oh woow amazing bathtub I miss d that one out. Hope it’s not lead bath @zozo it’s very toxic for plant and fish


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## Napoleon (8 Mar 2018)

Haha


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## zozo (8 Mar 2018)

Napoleon said:


> Oh woow amazing bathtub


Thank you.. 


Napoleon said:


> Hope it’s not lead bath


No it's galvanized steel and the fish are not in it permanently all year round only the summer months from late march till around octobre and also get a weekly 50+% water change. So no worries for toxic zinc accumulation. During the winter the fish are with some plants in large plastic tubs in the cellar.


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## Napoleon (8 Mar 2018)

Nice one zozo


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## Alejandro (13 Mar 2018)

Before doing this query in this forum I did in the other three.The others never answered me. Imagine my surprise when the topic lasted a week and filled two pages.
In addition you enlightened me and solved the problem!!!
Muchísimas gracias a todos por ayudarme !!!!


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## Angus (13 Mar 2018)

Viva la UKAPS! 

Sent from my E2303 using Tapatalk


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