# First Attempt!



## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

Finally that exciting time has come*THE FIRST AQUASCAPE* Yaaaaayyyyy  
There's gonna be a LOT of chop+change until i find the exact style i'm looking for.

Right...time for the set-up specs:
Tank: 180ltr Fluval Vicenza
Filtration: Fluval 405(1300lph), 305(1050lph)
Lighting: 3x39w luminare
CO2: 2kg FE,solenoid+bc and Rhinox 2000 diffuser
Decor: 21kgs of mini landscape rocks, redmoor root wood
Substrate: Eco-complete or ADA Amazonia II
Plants: Not yet chosen
Fish: Way to soon to be thinking about  

Pics:
The tank




Mini landscape rocks



Quick first scape attempt



Second attempt




I wont be going with either of those two layouts and i dont think i'll use the wood either(looks a bit naff really)
Thats as far as I've got so far but hopefully things will speed up once I've got the substrate in. Hope to update soon


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## Garuf (11 Jul 2008)

Second one too much rock, you're getting the right idea though.
I'd leave scaping until you have the substrate in, its good to have an idea but better to be able to shift things about and experiment.

With those rocks think about making statements and keep the numbers low at first, then add one or 2 more and your wood.


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Second one too much rock, you're getting the right idea though.
> I'd leave scaping until you have the substrate in, its good to have an idea but better to be able to shift things about and experiment.
> 
> With those rocks think about making statements and keep the numbers low at first, then add one or 2 more and your wood.



Yeah i know what you mean about the second one, it looks like i've tried to build my own lil mount everest with a twig sticking out the top  .
Hopefully i can get out tomorrow and get the substrate and maybe a few smaller rocks as a lot of the one's i have are quite big.
I do like the idea of having the majority of the hardscape on one side though, but i might try more of an Iwagumi layout tomorrow and see what's what.


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## LondonDragon (11 Jul 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> Hopefully i can get out tomorrow and get the substrate and maybe a few smaller rocks as a lot of the one's i have are quite big.



Looks like too much rock for this tank, and you thinking of getting some more??? Get a hammer and break some then you will have smaller pieces


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (11 Jul 2008)

have you taken out the hard plumbing? I love hard plumbed tanks 

yeah, quite alot of rock there!!  I think youre dead on the right track though!


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> cichlidsrgr8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, there is quite a bit of rock but i also have a smaller tank that i'm yet to set-up so i could use some in there too.

I'm not to keen on breaking up Â£60 worth of rock really so i think i'll just try some different arrangements first before i go all mental with a hammer and chisel


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

Matt Holbrook-Bull said:
			
		

> have you taken out the hard plumbing? I love hard plumbed tanks
> 
> yeah, quite alot of rock there!!  I think youre dead on the right track though!



Yup, the hard plumming is history  , I did like it's convenience when it was a community tank but i feel it's taking up too much space now that I'm doing a planted tank.

There is a lot of rock but i figure it's better to have too much than too little


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## Mark Evans (11 Jul 2008)

hammer and bolster will do the trick. just remember though, you must keep the really nice ones to one side because you cant glue them back together onec youve bashed em!  

i made this mistake  :? 

i spot a realy nice one at the bottom of the pile (the biggest one) its got a naturel flow to it. sticks out a mile. thats what youtr looking fot imo.

infact looking at the first pic youve got a few good ones  

actually no there not that good, please forward too....saintly, newark, england.   

seriously now, youve got some great stones there!

one bit of advice, i know its your first scape, but take it from me... take your time with the whole setup i.e. rock arrangment, plants. after all, you have to look at it everyday.be 100% sure before hand. theres nothing worse than planting filling with water, then thinking ooops... i dont like the layout   its a pain! trust me   
both my iwagumis sat there with just rocks for 3/4 weeks....no water. just keep rearanging my friend.keep posting pics here too.everyone will help, they helped me.

good look

mark


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## aaronnorth (11 Jul 2008)

> There's gonna be a LOT of chop+change until i find the exact style i'm looking for.



Thats the way to go!

Hope you can do more with your tank than what i did with mine, i couldnt afford to get a pressurized CO2 system, the standard lighting is high in those tanks, and i was just growing algae


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> hammer and bolster will do the trick. just remember though, you must keep the really nice ones to one side because you cant glue them back together onec youve bashed em!
> 
> i made this mistake  :?
> 
> ...



Cheers Saintly,

Yeah I intend on taking my time with this as it's my first one and I wanna get it right first time if I can  

I've tried a different layout this morning, I quite like both rock formations but I think the tank is too small to fit them both in. Anyhoo here's what I've come up with this time:....Please excuse the dodgy backround


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## Mark Evans (11 Jul 2008)

check this out.

scroll further down the images for the rock formations.

well done to garuf for this. it was this thread that kicked started me on the whole nature aquarium. it was one of the first add to favourates pages   

i still refer back to it too.

http://www.fishforums.net/content/Plant ... a-Gallery/


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## aaronnorth (11 Jul 2008)

I love that thread, forgot about it actually!


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> check this out.
> 
> scroll further down the images for the rock formations.
> 
> ...



WOW....no scrap that......DOUBLE WOW with a side of HOT DIGGITY DAMN   

I've seen a few of his pieces of ART before but 'geeze louise' the mans a 'FREAKIN GENIUS' 8) 
Looking at those just makes me feel small and insignificant    and that my tank will just be NAFF now in comparison


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## aaronnorth (11 Jul 2008)

> and that my tank will just be NAFF now in comparison



Your not the only one!


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## Mark Evans (11 Jul 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> and that my tank will just be NAFF now in comparison



aspire to it! dont be intimidated, if that were the case we'd all (not including george  ) jack it in.

at least your set up should be better now, than if you hadnt of seen amano's work. if that makes sense?  :? i know what i mean   

google takashi amano and be inspired


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## Garuf (11 Jul 2008)

Or don't the reason I created that thread was to consolidate my findings and show genuine Amano scapes, I intended to add to them but never got round to it.
ADA malaysia and Hong Kong have GREAT galleries for inspiration too.


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

Righto, these will be the last pics until I can get my substrate as It's quite hard for me to visualise what I want without it.



Basically the same just with one rock removed



And finally a wider angled photo showing my other so far unused tank  



Thanks for looking.


Regards
Wayne


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## aaronnorth (11 Jul 2008)

That little stone looks a bit lost lol


I think you have the stones facing the right way, but to bunched up. Keep their positioning but spread them out and see what it loks like, or just leave a few small gaps.


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## Wayney (11 Jul 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> That little stone looks a bit lost lol
> 
> 
> I think you have the stones facing the right way, but to bunched up. Keep their positioning but spread them out and see what it loks like, or just leave a few small gaps.



The trouble is I can only do so much without having the substrate in the tank to stabilise the rocks  
Hopefully once the substrate is in place i'll be able to create much better layouts.


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## aaronnorth (11 Jul 2008)

oh i see


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## Superman (11 Jul 2008)

I like the rocks, will work well.


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## Wayney (18 Jul 2008)

It seems that I'm having problems deciding on rock placement, i just visualise what i want. So i could do with a few tips if anyone would be so kind. After trying for most of the day this is all i could come up with:


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## Garuf (18 Jul 2008)

Too many rocks too spread out. 
Take 5 rocks one really big and the rest smaller and cluster them on one corner the biggest forming the key the rest then "flowing" towards it. Now repeat on the opposing side but ensure the Key stone is smaller than the opposite sides. 
I'll post a picture explaining what I mean in a second.


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## Garuf (18 Jul 2008)

Get what I mean?
The arrows indicate the "flow" and the valley becomes the focal point. 
The green lines give an idea of how you could plant it.


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## Wayney (19 Jul 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Get what I mean?
> The arrows indicate the "flow" and the valley becomes the focal point.
> The green lines give an idea of how you could plant it.



Totally get what you mean now mate, I think i need to get my head round the idea that ' less is more ' and just because i have xx amount of rocks it dont mean I've gotta use em all  .


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

It took me ages to get that too, when I first set up my 60x30x30 I tried to use all the rocks I had, in the end I only ended up using 4...

You'll find that the less there is of something the bigger the statement it makes, especially with Iwagumi which can quickly become swamped.


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## Wayney (19 Jul 2008)

With the rocks I've got the obvious style to go for would be Iwagumi but I'm not that sure thats the style i wanna go with.
I dont know whether to go with a heavily planted jungle first so i can get used to growing plants properly, or, jump straight in the deep end and go for Iwagumi.......but then again i have got spare 60cm tank that i could use to experiment with :?


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

Big tank jungle, little tank Iwagumi, that's my input. Have a browse of CAU and the ADA galleries and get a good idea of what you want, when I saw your tank I initially saw a wood tangle, you know the kind, roots coming forward sand foreground ferns and moss, grasses. Then you went Iwagumi. The thing is that with the rocks you have you could do absolutely anything, the best scapes mix wood and rock in my experiance. But then if Iwagumi I what you like then go for it!


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## Wayney (19 Jul 2008)

I think i know what I'm gonna do now(maybe  ) I'm gonna wipe the slate clean and start afresh :? Thanks to our very own John Starkey 8) I'm going to The Green Machine tomorrow - where better to get inspiration and advice, right ? (apart from UKAPS obviously  ). So hopefully when i get home i'll have a much clearer picture of what i want ( and an empty wallet    )


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

Haha, Johns a really nice guy too you'll have a good laugh. 
Make sure you get some redmoor wood, I actually love that stuff it's such nice stuff to play about with, but then wood layouts are my favourite type of scape.


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## Wayney (19 Jul 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Haha, Johns a really nice guy too you'll have a good laugh.
> Make sure you get some redmoor wood, I actually love that stuff it's such nice stuff to play about with, but then wood layouts are my favourite type of scape.




I've actually got a piece of redmoor that i bought from my lfs for my community tank but i dont think it would suit the tank I'm using now, the wood is really long and i think a taller piece would suit this tank better.


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

Break bits off, the redmore in my cube started life as 2 peices of wood I chopped and snapped and zip tied back together until I got something I was happy with. Scaping is more fun with more materials than you need and don't be scared to break bits or add to things if you need its all part of the fun. I love scaping but mess it all up when I add the plants lol.


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## Wayney (19 Jul 2008)

> Scaping is more fun with more materials than you need and don't be scared to break bits or add to things if you need its all part of the fun.



With me it's not a case of being scared of breaking things, with my clumsy ogre paws it's a case of ' how much I'm gonna break it and will there be anything use-able once I'm finished


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## Ray (19 Jul 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Get what I mean?
> The arrows indicate the "flow" and the valley becomes the focal point.
> The green lines give an idea of how you could plant it.



Garuf, that took you 6 minutes - quite brilliant, truely the trainee architect! What software do you use to knock your little sketches up - its almost as though you have a tablet and some fancy software?

Anyway, I've resolved that tomorrow I will photograph my new tank and start a thread for some advice, I know roughly what I want to do but the devil is in the detail.

cichlidsrgr8 - looking forward to the post green machine posts!  While you are there look at the 2008 ADA catalogue - some Amano tips on placing rocks too.

Cheers,

Ray


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

Lol, thank you but its nothing special at all. I use Ms paint and a "graphic's quality" Kensington mouse. I did do a tuturial on how I do the little sketches, I'll see if I can find it out because it proves you don't need high end software if you know one or 2 tricks.


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## spaldingaquatics (19 Jul 2008)

Must admit garuf you are sharp with the drawings, even at 2.30 in the morning!


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

Found it, turning paint into a aquascape sketcher.


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## spaldingaquatics (19 Jul 2008)

Nice! is that an online package?


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## Garuf (19 Jul 2008)

It's ms paint, you know the paint that comes on EVERY windows pc.


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## Wayney (21 Jul 2008)

I've been having another play with the layout today, I think I'm getting better :? and getting closer to what I want it to turn out like. I need to get another bag of AS to coz I dont think the depth at the back is deep enough.
This is my latest offering:






















Please feel free to comment on what's good and what's naff.

Wayne,


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## Garuf (21 Jul 2008)

I really like it, the thing I'd try is that middle right hand rock slanting in the opposite direction, might work quiet nice. 
I'd have to agree about the as, get a 9l bag and have some knocking about spare if needs be because it compresses over time and on a mountain scape like this that'd look pretty naff.


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## Mark Evans (21 Jul 2008)

the left and right formations are fantastic IMO

garufs right about the middle one. you need to try and bridge the laft formation to the right one somehow. how many more rocks you got?

the tiny rocks will be completely lost BTW when its grown in.


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## Garuf (21 Jul 2008)

I dunno, I don't think the little ones will, It's all a matter of scale. am I right in thinking this is quiet a big tank?


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## Wayney (21 Jul 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> the left and right formations are fantastic IMO
> 
> garufs right about the middle one. you need to try and bridge the laft formation to the right one somehow. how many more rocks you got?
> 
> the tiny rocks will be completely lost BTW when its grown in.



I've still got a few rocks left over but they're quite big though, I could always smash em though  



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I dunno, I don't think the little ones will, It's all a matter of scale. am I right in thinking this is quiet a big tank?



The tank is 36"long x 20" high x 12" deep at the ends and 16" deep in the centre of the bow.


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## Mark Evans (21 Jul 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I dunno, I don't think the little ones will,



you might be right garuf. it would be fine if using hc. i found im my big tank that where the smaller rock lies(especialy when flat) it give the impression you havnt planted anything, if you get what i mean? its like a void inbetween the glosso or hc... it seems to work placing smaller stone near bigger rocks, but not on there own. i maybe wrong though. 

the more i look at that middle rock the more i feel it throws the formation out of balance.


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## Wayney (21 Jul 2008)

Ok, I've altered the right side slightly but I'm not sure if it looks better or worse  








I added another rock behind just to keep the large one from toppling over.


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## Mark Evans (21 Jul 2008)

thats the bit you should of left mate


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## Garuf (21 Jul 2008)

okay use that central depth to your advantage, imagine a pair of v's coming from each back corner towards the front foot then place your rocks along those imaginary lines, those skewed lines should help give greater depth. 
I'll knock up a picture in a second.


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## Garuf (21 Jul 2008)




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## Wayney (21 Jul 2008)

Try again eh   










And these are the rocks that i've yet to use.


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## JamesM (21 Jul 2008)

The second stone in from the far right doesn't do it for me. Far too rounded and smooth... swap for something else and lean it the other way too, like in this pic:


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## Wayney (21 Jul 2008)

Right, last lot of pics for today as the more I mess with it the more it's driving me bloomin mental


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## Mark Evans (21 Jul 2008)

thats better.   your getting  there now.

mark


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## Wayney (27 Jul 2008)

I've decided to try a different layout on the right hand side but now I'm unsure if it looks too similar to the left hand side, I do like it though  
Please let me know what ya'll think about it


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## JamesM (27 Jul 2008)

Love it, but I'd remove the centre front rock


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## Wayney (27 Jul 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> Love it, but I'd remove the centre front rock



Cheers JAmesM, I think I will remove that small rock as it's too light a colour compared to the rest of them.
I've still got some dark rocks left that i can smash into smaller one's  coz I like the idea of having small pieces dotted about the central area, if anything to break up the HC carpet that i'll hopefully have once it's complete.


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## Themuleous (2 Aug 2008)

I preferred it with the taller rocks, I think the latest rock scape will be to low in the tank once you get the plants in.  

Sam


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## LondonDragon (2 Aug 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> I preferred it with the taller rocks, I think the latest rock scape will be to low in the tank once you get the plants in.
> Sam


Taller rocks get my vote too, otherwise once plants grow, where are the rocks??? hehehe


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## Wayney (2 Aug 2008)

I also thought that the scape would be too low in the tank so have ordered another 9l bag of amazonia to raise the area up more. I have'nt decided on the final layout yet though guys, still a few more things to try out


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## LondonDragon (2 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> I also thought that the scape would be too low in the tank so have ordered another 9l bag of amazonia to raise the area up more. I have'nt decided on the final layout yet though guys, still a few more things to try out


Keep trying it out until you get something that tells you "wow thats what I really wanted" and then you can start with the rest, give it time and it will come to you


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## Wayney (2 Aug 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Keep trying it out until you get something that tells you "wow thats what I really wanted" and then you can start with the rest, give it time and it will come to you



I'm quite surprised that i've got so much patience with it actually coz I'm normally a very,very impatient person with most things  
I'm really pleased with the left hand side, I just need to create something equally pleasing on the right( easier said than done)


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## LondonDragon (2 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> I'm quite surprised that i've got so much patience with it actually coz I'm normally a very,very impatient person with most things
> I'm really pleased with the left hand side, I just need to create something equally pleasing on the right( easier said than done)


I didn't plan to rescape my tank the other day, I was just going to replant the glosso, but then started pulling this out and that out, by the time I was done the only things left in there was the crypt and the moss wall LOL
And the rescape just happened I didn't even plan it, I started planting everything and then realised "oh crap, I forgot to had the rocks and the wood" LOLOL so added that afterwards when it should have been the other way round, worked well anyway lol


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## jay (3 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> I've decided to try a different layout on the right hand side but now I'm unsure if it looks too similar to the left hand side, I do like it though
> Please let me know what ya'll think about it
> 
> 
> ...


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## Wayney (5 Aug 2008)

Thanks for that Jay,

I got my last bag of AS this morning so I thought I'd try another layout, It's totally different to all the others I've played around with so I'm not too sure about it and I'd really value some outside opinions on it.



















Thanks for looking


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## ulster exile (5 Aug 2008)

I like your last layout, although I'm not sure that it doesn't look a bit too uniform or symmetrical because of the similar (nut opposite) angles the top right and top left rocks are sat at.  It sort of gives uniform parabolic shape.

When reading this, bear in mind my sig though 

PS - are you going to get a background as the stuff behind the tank is very imposing :?


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## Wayney (5 Aug 2008)

Yeah I've got a background sorted, I just need to paint it  not sure whether to go with white or black though :?


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## Wayney (6 Aug 2008)

Well I've decided that due to the overwhelming lack of responses to my last post that either A: I smell bad   or B: The layout I posted was so KAK that no-one was even remotely interested    

Anyway, today's a new day and ....Yep you guessed it, I've tried yet another layout    
Let me know what you think  









Left side



Middle



Right side


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## Mark Evans (6 Aug 2008)

oh mate, sorry to overlook this journal.

ok, the pics from the entry dated aug 3rd is the layout that does it for me





all though this has potential and is different to other iwagumis that are out there. ive seen a similar layout by amano





the latest layouts are ok, but they seem to lack flow?...there good ,but not as good as the others. IMO   
you have one main stone, and only one supporting stone on the left, it may need another suporting stone. allways look at the odd number of stone configurations.especially the ones that are seen.

hc, e tennelus in the mid ground(youve got the height) vivipara in the back? maybe?....

all in all youve come so far from the first layouts.your obviously studying this layout, which is great to see.

mark


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## Wayney (6 Aug 2008)

Cheers Saintly, 
I'm really motivated to get it right first time round and that's why I'm taking so long on it. I'm not expecting to win any awards or anything  but I definitely want to make it the best that I possibly can. And with all the tips and great advice that I'm getting from the guys on here such as yourself I can only see that I'm gonna keep getting closer to a really nice tank at the end of it.
Thanks again


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## JamesM (6 Aug 2008)

Iwagumi means 'rock formation' so in reality any layout where the rocks are a focal point could be called an Iwagumi scape. As Mark has pointed out though, for it to be done with the right zen certain rules apply. Flow, number of rocks, size of rocks, placement, etc. 

Mr Amano's famed Iwagumi fron Nature Aquarium Gallery 01 (2006) is a great inspiration (I think I'm right to say it was Mark's inspiration), and a great place to start...

http://www.adaaust.com.au/support/takashi_amano.htm

Download the step by step guide to this tank on the above link 

Here's another from the 2008 Catalogue which gives a bit more detail about placement: http://www.adaaust.com.au/support/iwagumi2007.htm



Don't forget to check the gallery out at that site too


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## Mark Evans (6 Aug 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> Mr Amano's famed Iwagumi fron Nature Aquarium Gallery 01 (2006) is a great inspiration (I think I'm right to say it was Mark's inspiration), and a great place to start...



yep, thats the one. (second link) brilliant layout. i'd love to see that 180cm in the flesh. i strugled fitting it in a 60!   

actualy get the 08 cat cichlidsgr8. its good for the gumi's   also aqua journals vol.34 and116

mark


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## passerby* (6 Aug 2008)

at the end of the day beauty is seen through the eye of the beholder and seeing as your the person going to view it.. i think you should create it to your own personal taste...and no one here can tell you what you like and dislike ..lol... i think your waiting for you to make a layout that you simply fall in love with and that might not simply happen .. i personally like the first photo sainty posted above..but "maybe" with the small rocks in the middle of the tank removed and more depth  using  aquasoil on each side to create that bow/hill look that is sometimes used... but crack on mate.. its good to see you really care about your layout..and seeing that much determination from you to get right.. makes me think that you will knock out a fantastic aquascape..goodluck
cheers....passerby


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## Mark Evans (6 Aug 2008)

from my experience , (2 gumis that ive done) they never look how you anticipated it to look in the first place. your planting WILL change the look completely! 



			
				passerby* said:
			
		

> at the end of the day beauty is seen through the eye of the beholder and seeing as your the person going to view it.



sooo true, but i think the previous post were just for guidence purposes only   

mark


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## Wayney (6 Aug 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> Iwagumi means 'rock formation' so in reality any layout where the rocks are a focal point could be called an Iwagumi scape. As Mark has pointed out though, for it to be done with the right zen certain rules apply. Flow, number of rocks, size of rocks, placement, etc.
> 
> Mr Amano's famed Iwagumi fron Nature Aquarium Gallery 01 (2006) is a great inspiration (I think I'm right to say it was Mark's inspiration), and a great place to start...
> 
> ...



Thanks for those JAmesM, Superb layouts especially the second one. Those are the kind of layouts I really like and would love to implement them in my tank but with my own twist to them   



			
				passerby* said:
			
		

> at the end of the day beauty is seen through the eye of the beholder and seeing as your the person going to view it.. i think you should create it to your own personal taste...and no one here can tell you what you like and dislike ..lol... i think your waiting for you to make a layout that you simply fall in love with and that might not simply happen .. i personally like the first photo sainty posted above..but "maybe" with the small rocks in the middle of the tank removed and more depth using aquasoil on each side to create that bow/hill look that is sometimes used... but crack on mate.. its good to see you really care about your layout..and seeing that much determination from you to get right.. makes me think that you will knock out a fantastic aquascape..goodluck
> cheers....passerby



Ultimately your right mate, I'm the one that has to live with it but if I'm able to create something that other members appreciate then it would give me that extra bit of confidence to 'KICK ON' with the tank and produce a scape to the best of my abilities.  

Thanks again everyone


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## aaronnorth (6 Aug 2008)

i prefer this one:





with your latest layout, i think the long thin stone needs to be replaced witha fat one if you have any.


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## Wayney (8 Aug 2008)

After reading the links that JAmesM kindly posted for me I decided to try and copy one of Amano's layouts with the rocks that I've got. Obviously it's not a carbon copy but I think it's pretty close.


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## aaronnorth (8 Aug 2008)

although i think it i ok to copy an experienced aquascaper like amano when you are starting out, if you are playing around with them then i think it is better to use one you have produced seen as you have got a good layout, you will then be able to produce your own style next time a lot easier.

with this last layout, i think that the stone circled is too large and it sticks out to much, if you can sink it furthere into the substarte then it will be better IMO


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## Themuleous (10 Aug 2008)

It almost looks like you've got to many rocks in there?  Two collections of rocks often looks good to, rather than one big collection.

Sam


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## PM (10 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i prefer this one:



Looks a lot more natural, though it could all get covered in plants too much, depending on what you use


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## Mark Evans (10 Aug 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> though it could all get covered in plants too much, depending on what you use



even with the lowest growing plant like hc, you'll lose the smaller stones in the middle, unless you really keep on top of your trimming.

it's certainly my favourite arrangement. are there gaps between the left hand group of stones?

mark


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## aaronnorth (10 Aug 2008)

losing hardscape isnt always a bad thing, it can be quite effective sometimes


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## Mark Evans (10 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> it can be quite effective sometimes



maybe, but with foresight, why put it in, in the first place? if you know your going to lose it? 

im not hi jacking cichlidgr8.  sorry. this is after planting. ive put stones in therethat just didnt need to be there as the following images will show. in future scapes i'll certainly consider this.

the plant choice will be key in your layout mate.  






TANK NOW





thanks

mark....hijack over! 8)


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## aaronnorth (10 Aug 2008)

without the stones being ther you wouldnt be able to get the gap there as the HC would just spread, even if you pulled it up you wouldnt get the same effect.


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## Wayney (10 Aug 2008)

Cheers for all the feedback guys, it's well appreciated  . I'm currently playing with some more layouts at the moment using some rocks I've yet to try in the tank. I think out of all the layouts so far the one i like most is with the 2 rock groups at either end, the only trouble is that there's not a lot of height with it and my tank is quite tall  .
Still.... i'll keep at it and see what I can come up with.

Regards Wayne,


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## Mark Evans (10 Aug 2008)

the one at the back right? I didn't need that. i could of left the e tennelus to grow there. i know in some situations it helps with layouts but not always.

the little one in front of the 2 big ones is essential for holding back the aquasoil, so its higher between the stones.(stops it spilling out) I've noticed it allot in amano set-ups. he always places a smaller stone in this fashion.and im sure its not just for aesthetics.

to be honest, when you start looking at amano iwagumi layouts. there's an absolute science behind them, and the man does it effortlessly


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## Mark Evans (10 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> the only trouble is that there's not a lot of height with it and my tank is quite tall  .



have you any AS left? get it all in there. height at the back shallow at the front. my big tank is 70cm tall, so im really going to push the boat out next set-up!

i think zig understands the idea of using different layers in rock formations. ive been reading that the Asian scene seems to believe in layering in iwagumis.plus it gives more depth to the aquarium.

or if you cant make up the height in hard scape, look at the planting side. vivipara, c heferi v nana.all tall plants. 

mark


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## Wayney (10 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> cichlidsrgr8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've got all of the AS in there, it's almost 8" at the back and about 2" at the front. I was thinking about using vivipara in the background for some extra height  .


Like the new signature by the way Mark, very cool 8)


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## Mark Evans (10 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> 've got all of the AS in there, it's almost 8" at the back and about 2" at the front.



same as my big tank.

well i know of a couple of aquas capers in Malaysia that bulk out with sponge, rocks etc.. worth thinking about.
keep up the hard work, you'll get there in the end. remember you'll never get 100% this time, but it'll improve your skills for the next time. that's what i tell myself anyway   



			
				cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> Like the new signature by the way Mark, very cool



thanks   i get bored easy, and need to occupy my mind.

mark


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## a1Matt (10 Aug 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> > i prefer this one:



Thought I'd chip in and say that but definitely I like this one best as well. I couldn't say in words why... it just has that certain something!


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## Wayney (15 Aug 2008)

I have'nt had much time for anything planty for a while until today, so I decided to make the most of it  and had a big change around tank-wise and hardscape-wise. And if I must be honest, I'm quite pleased with what I've come up with.
Everything is pretty much sorted equipment wise now so hopefully I can finally get some plants in soon.

















Cheers and beers


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## jay (15 Aug 2008)

Well I got the beers... reckon you got the good scape too  

Really liking the slope, but those two lil rocks bottom right, they seem to stop your eye as you gaze from the bottom of the hill upwards... think they stop the transition.

But love where this is going, actually don't think Ive seen an Iwagumi in this layout yet.


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## Wayney (16 Aug 2008)

Cheers Jay, I think you might be right about those small rocks. I've spent ages just staring at it today and there's definitely something on that side that don't sit right with me. I might try setting them at different angles and see how it looks.


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## Mark Evans (16 Aug 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> I've spent ages just staring at it today



thats where i go stone crazy   ive done the same thing. looking over and over, then you look that much you just don't see any more. if that makes sense.

mark


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## Wayney (20 Aug 2008)

Once again I've changed the tank layout AGAIN.....but this time I've used a different type of stone, inspired by Planter's new iwagumi project, I managed to pick up some Dragon stone from my lfs. Here's how it looks now  













I've tried not to copy Planter's layout but it does look somewhat similar(Sorry m8   )

Regards Wayne,


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## aaronnorth (20 Aug 2008)

something still isnt quite right - my eyes get drawn to the gap in front of the largest stone.  :?


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## YzemaN (21 Aug 2008)

Could be me, but I prefer a more natural setup like in the image below:



As you can see all the larger rock structures are not perfectly aligned , but they seem to want to "go" in the same direction. And ditch all the small stones. They'll get lost in the vegetation within weeks of planting anyway...
I know Amano advocates taking the biggest, bestest, beautifulest <add more here> stone and just play around with that until you have a line, dynamic, whatever, you like and then take the second largest and place it opposite. Depending on the effect you're after it can lean in the same direction, giving the feeling of flow, or in the opposite direction giving a lot more "tension" to the scape.
Right now I feel the rocks all want to break free and start their own little anarchic society, each with their own selection of plants and fish 

Good luck. Looking forward to see this evolve


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## Wayney (8 Sep 2008)

Not a lot to update really other than I've ordered some plants and my Trace ferts so should be started up some time this week *fingers crossed*. Oh, I've just broke my flippin diffuser as well  so that's 28 quid straight in the bin  lucky I've got spares of everything. So hopefully soon there might be some pics with plants in 'em


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

Right folks, time for a proper update for once  . Plants arrived this morning from TGM(Thanks again guys), 2 pots of glosso and 2 pots of E tenellus and I was pretty amazed at how far you can stretch 2 pots out, I still need more but i'll add as and when funds allow  .

Pictures:
















It's still a bit cloudy as i've only just filled with water but that's to be expected innit. So feel free to comment guys and girls as long as there nice comments or i'll send the boys round   .

Regards Wayne,


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

nice positioning on the rocks, i think the stone on the far right could do with pointing left.


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> nice positioning on the rocks, i think the stone on the far right could do with pointing left.



Cheers matey, I know what your saying re the far right rock, to be honest i wasn't too sure about leaving that rock in at all  because of how much lighter in colour it is but HEY it's not like I'm gonna be a world beater with my first scape so 'sod it'    

On a negative note, I've only gone and busted my diffuser AGAIN    . I swear I'm cursed or something ...........
..................................DAMN YOU AQUASCAPING GODS, DAMN YOU TO HELL..............................................

Regards Wayne,


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## joyous214 (11 Sep 2008)

Like the stones where you get them from... cant wait to see how it grows...


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

joyous214 said:
			
		

> Like the stones where you get them from... cant wait to see how it grows...



Thanks Joyous, I got the stones from Coxwell Aquatics in Wolverhampton


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## joyous214 (11 Sep 2008)

oohhh not seen anylike that before. nice. good great against the green of the plants.


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

joyous214 said:
			
		

> oohhh not seen anylike that before. nice. good great against the green of the plants.



this is similar

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1102


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

looks great mate. i reckon you'll be surprised at how quick that glosso will grow   you wont need anymore.


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> looks great mate.



Cheers bud, It's tenullus I need more of mostly which my lfs has kindly ordered in for me as well as some P helferi too  
I'm thinking of the back right corner for the P helferi and maybe some little accents around the rocks.


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> I'm thinking of the back right corner for the P helferi and maybe some little accents around the rocks.



will look great around the rocks. not sure about the back right corner though. its more forground mid ground plant.the way your rocks are arranged suggest to me at least, that, planting can be sparse on the right. of course you want something grass or e tennelus but nothing that would draw the eye away from the left.

something along the lines of what zig did here...

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... l=0&id=197


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

That's pretty much how I imagined mine might look eventually except with glosso instead of hc.cuba.
I just hope that my Excell lasts until I can get a new diffuser as I've now broken 2 in 4 days


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## Wayney (19 Sep 2008)

Quick update, I've added 5 more pots of E tenellus, 2 pots of Glosso and 2 pots of P helferi that my lfs ordered in for me.
All seems to be going quite well, glosso's spreading nicely and no algae YET   .
Here's the pics:














Excuse the cabomba and the other plant, their mainly for algae prevention as I'm not running my C02 yet  

Regards Wayne,


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## LondonDragon (19 Sep 2008)

Looking good Wayne, but that glosso needs CO2 or it will start to suffer soon, you dosing an alrernative?
Keep us posted


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## vauxhallmark (19 Sep 2008)

Looks great, thanks for posting!

You're so doing the right thing, keeping it free of animals for now - I got impatient with my last tank and put some shrimps in after only 8 days, and the efficient little buggers make sure to pick up and inspect every grain of aquasoil every day - not much fun when you've got 25 dots of glosso with no real roots stuck in it!. Don't know what to do know, they are gradually dying what with being dug up and replanted every time they broach the surface of the substrate! probably only got two dots left!

Oh well, no sign of any algae at all (three weeks now) so I can't complain too much. Hope fully when the tank is a bit more established, and with more moss etc for them to explore I can try and lay out the meadow again - or maybe I'll grow a big chunk in a tank without and animals in and transfer it intact. I'm sure I'll get there in the end, but I wish I'd had the patience to leave the animals out for the first month - the growth was great till the shrimps got at it. I could have grown it emmerse for the first month, but I think it was doing fine underwater, and with no disturbance hardly any got uprooted.

You lives and learns!

All the best with your tank.

Mark


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## Wayney (19 Sep 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looking good Wayne, but that glosso needs CO2 or it will start to suffer soon, you dosing an alrernative?
> Keep us posted



Thanks LD, I'm dosing Excel at 2-3x the recommended dosage everyday at the moment until my diffusers arrive.


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## a1Matt (19 Sep 2008)

Looking really good.  Amazing for a first attempt   

Myonly constructive criticism is the same as mentioned earlier... the rock on the far right looks out of place.  I think removing it completely is the safest bet.  Another option could be to bury it a bit so that after the foreground grows in you just see the tip of it sticking out. IMHO that would look pretty good.


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## Wayney (27 Sep 2008)

Quick update, Everything still going strong, cant believe how fast glosso spreads  .
Adding a koralia nano tomorrow to help with flow at the back . I've now been running all 3 39w tubes for a week giving me roughly 4.3wpg (asking for trouble I know )   but no algae yet   . Dosing at least 2x EI at the moment. 

Anyhoo heres a pic:




Regards Wayne,


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## aaronnorth (28 Sep 2008)

looking good, i think you need to let the grass spread more down the left hand side.


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## Wayney (28 Sep 2008)

Thanks Aaron , there's some new shoots that I can trim off and place on the left hand side. I think i'll put some more in front of the largest rock as well.

Regards Wayne,


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## joyous214 (28 Sep 2008)

looks good


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## Wayney (13 Oct 2008)

A quick update on the tank. Things are going reasonably well apart from I had to remove the P helferi due to it literally melting overnight :? OH and I'm starting to become bored with the simplicity of it so I'm now contemplating either ripping it down and starting from new or just starting another tank up :? .
Pics












Opinions and suggestions very welcome.


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## Fred Dulley (13 Oct 2008)

Great job. Keep it up.


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## Mark Evans (13 Oct 2008)

looks great mate,



			
				cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> OH and I'm starting to become bored with the simplicity of it so I'm now contemplating either ripping it down and starting from new or just starting another tank up :? .



its done its job, so start again. its how we learn. im discovering this quickly. you cant really take this scape any further IMO. go for it


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## Wayney (13 Oct 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> looks great mate,
> 
> its done its job, so start again. its how we learn. im discovering this quickly. you cant really take this scape any further IMO. go for it



That's pretty much how I'm seeing it now. I've spent most of the day looking through my copy of the IAPLC 2008 book for inspiration  I've got a few ideas so far but i'll think on it for a bit longer  

P.s. Your new scape is looking really promising so far mate....Good stuff 8)


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## Wayney (4 Nov 2008)

Well this scape is now gone in preparation for the new one, I'm quite glad really as I started to dislike it quite a lot  . So I went hardscape shopping yesterday and returned with some nice bogwood pieces. Here's a pic of a few of the pieces I bought.






All for Â£11...BARGAIN


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## Garuf (4 Nov 2008)

I'll buy the job lot for Â£12 
They look the bees knee's you got any ideas on what you're going to do with them?


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## Thomas McMillan (4 Nov 2008)

You've got some nice bits there, nice one!


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## Wayney (4 Nov 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I'll buy the job lot for Â£12
> They look the bees knee's you got any ideas on what you're going to do with them?



Ooooo....Â£12, that's a good offer but.....think i'll have to pass  
To be honest I'm thinking along the lines of something similar to Dan Crawford's last scape but with a splash of red thrown in and without the moss (maybe) :? 



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> You've got some nice bits there, nice one!



Cheers Thomas, my lfs had a lot of really nice pieces in yesterday.


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## Themuleous (7 Nov 2008)

Yeh, thats some cracking looking wood 

Sam


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## Wayney (26 Nov 2008)

Going...going....gone  





Tenellus much  





ready for a new scape :?


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## Themuleous (27 Nov 2008)

Nice one, keep us posted 

Sam


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