# Sam's now to be high light 20g



## Themuleous (30 Sep 2007)

Hi all, 

As I updated my journal (yes at last!) over on TFF thought I might as well start one here too.

The last scape got ruined as I had a hagen power glo and Arcadia original over it, so the lighting was all wrong and BBA really took hold.  So I stripped it right down, reused the bits of the plants I could and overdose excel for a bit to get rid of the BBG and small amount of staghorn that was present.  I also added pressurised CO2 (see my FE thread) which the plants have really responded to.  I also had to clear a spout of green water with my UV steriliser, but it worked a treat and only took 2 days.

Here's the tank as of tonight.






Looks better if you ignore the top bit 





Once the plants get a bit higher and fill the tank a bit more it should look better.  I am also thinking of changing the sags with dwarf hairgrass, as I think the sags will get to high, but time will tell I guess.  Thinking I might also put a java fern on the piece of wood, as the swords will probably be rather bare at the base once growing properly.

I pruned the H.poly the other night, and the base leaves looked like this.





Anyone got an ideas how to prevent this?  It is the lower leaves, so could just be an age thing, it was tall when I pruned it.  I guess I might need to be more pro-active with the pruning, that'll also help things bush out as well.

Thoughts/comments welcome 

Sam


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (30 Sep 2007)

Lovely Sam  cant wait to see how that develops!

H. Polysperma grows so fast you might as well just prune out all the damaged, dodgy looking foliage.  Itll grow back in spades so long as things are right! 

Looks like you might have had a slight Nitrogen deficiency, H. Poly' is a veracious nitrogen feeder, IMO needing more than normally suggested EI amounts.  Im actually currently experimenting with my own Hygro's to confirm this theory. Ill let you all know what I find. 

Nice work Sam, keep us updated, really pretty looking scape in the making.


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## Ben_K (1 Oct 2007)

Nice looking tank Sam!  Im looking forward to seeing how it matures.


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## Themuleous (2 Oct 2007)

Thanks Flora  thats a very kind post 

I have checked the NO3 which is 10ppm and PO4 which is 0.5ppm if not a bit lower.  So I have made up some ferts from my EI tank and will dose accordingly.  Going to aim for NO2 of 30ppm and PO4 of 2ppm.  I'm also going to watch the levels for a week or so to see what happens with both, I'm hoping that I wont need to does them more than once a week as I left it as a low light tank in order to avoid the hassle of an EI tank!   

I'm also going to add a dose of AE trace mix 2x a week, just to be on the safe side.  

Thanks again  you were spot on with the fert deficiency.

Ben - cheers will be sure to keep you posted 

Sam


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## beeky (3 Oct 2007)

Nice tank. What are those grey fish with black spots? Are they a livebearer?


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## Themuleous (3 Oct 2007)

Do you mean these fish?





Those are three American flagfish.  I originally got them as they are one of very few fish that will eat BBG and stagnorn, I've even seem them do it, unlike things like SAE's which I've never actually seen eat algae.  They are reported to get to 6cm but mine have got no bigger than an inch.  I've got three females, I did have a male but it died of unknown causes.

Great little fish IMHO, really taken to them since having them and they nibble my arm when I do water changes, which is cool.  Nice to actually interact with a fish, most just hide!  

Sam[/img]


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## Themuleous (11 Nov 2007)

Just thought I would add these update photo as for last week.  Certainly matured in the last month or so.  I need to do something with the R.rotundifolia, but not sure what yet, its not working where it is.  Pretty algae free, apart from a bit of GSA on the glass, nothing else to speak off, touch wood.  Hopefully over the fert deficiency, not 100% sure but the H.poly is growing more normally now.  It all needs a good prune when I can be arsed!













Sam


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## beeky (14 Nov 2007)

I seem to have missed this update first time round.

I see what you mean about the R.rotundifolia. How about moving it to the back in a mirror position to the left back plant (H. stricta?) leaving a kind of gap in the middle?


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## Themuleous (14 Nov 2007)

Yep thats what Im thinking.  When I finally get an evening free, I'll get my hands wet and move it to the back right 

Sam

EDIT - have just noticed how much the sags have filled out!


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## Dave Spencer (14 Nov 2007)

Looking good Sam.

If your Sags are anything like the grassy types I have kept, they will need to kept thinned out ,or the overcrowding will force the leaves upwards, taking away any ideas you may have had for a mid ground.

Dave.

P.S. Can you adjust the white balance on your camera, Sam? Some of the pics have a green hue.


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## Themuleous (15 Nov 2007)

Cheers Dave,

Its nothing special but Im glad to see it developing.  Thanks for the tip re the sag, they are getting a bit tall.  I'll give them a trim when I do the general prune.

Re the colours, I did mess with the white balance, but these were the best pics.  I'm pretty sure they were the same settings as the first set of photos, so who knows. 'IF' I ever take some 'final scape' shots of the tank I'll mess with all the settings and see what happens.  I'm to used to film thats my trouble!

Sam


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## Themuleous (25 Feb 2008)

Right, you probably know that I did a complete strip down and rescape on Sunday, so here are the pics.  I wont go into to much detail, ask if you want to know anything.  Other than the scape, I will be adding a 4th 18w freshwater to make it fully highlight as I run EI anyway so might as well.

Here's what it used to look like, nothing special but having a experimentation tank has taught me lots, in particular how to prune stuff to get it bushy.  Hopefully that new skill will help with the new scape.









Here's the wood I got.  Ive had to zip tie the two pieces together so it holds its shape and as I didn't have a time to soak it Ive got it tied it under the central brace of the tank to hold it down.





And here's what it looks like now  I have to say I'm rather pleased, just hope the plant choice lives up to it and fill out as I want it to.  Not sure about the sags as they might be a bit tall, but time will tell, hope the crypts get taller so they are a bit more of an effective mid-ground next to the wood.













Comment/question always welcome.

Sam

EDIT - sorry about the H.poly floating about its for a friend and wont see him until Thursday. I'll take all the equipment out if I manage to get any final tank pics worth the effort. I've also manged to get three jiffy bags full of the old hydrophila and sags to send to people.  Hopefully get a bit of cash for Ukaps


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## Arana (25 Feb 2008)

Superb mate  

Maybe we should play for that piece of wood next time the chips fly


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## Garuf (25 Feb 2008)

Haha I'm up for betting with wood, I regret letting you get them. 
I love the new look, I can't wait for it to fill out, any mosses going on it?


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## Garuf (25 Feb 2008)

OH!
And looking at it you'll want some rocks in there with the wood just to help break up the plant lines, wood I find is naked without something making it look like it either grew there or is lodged there.


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## Themuleous (25 Feb 2008)

Cheers guys 

No mosses yet, will see how it fills out.  Same goes for the rocks, but I take your point.  There is loads of H.poly at the back left that with the other plants should break up the lines of the wood a bit and make it look a bit more natural.

We aint playing for this wood, ever!!!  Gonna make a useful bit of hardscape for my 120cm when I finally get it.

Sam


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## Arana (26 Feb 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> We aint playing for this wood, ever!!!  Gonna make a useful bit of hardscape for my 120cm when I finally get it.
> 
> Sam



Spoilsport  

Seriously though, I'm glad you found something to inspire you at the weekend mate, it makes it all worthwile


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## Garuf (26 Feb 2008)

Never mind aye, although I do like the idea of playing for planted goodies. 

Have you spoke to anyone about chelsea at all?
I really like the new scape it still looks fresh so it's important to remember that it all will bush out something amazing.


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## Arana (26 Feb 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Have you spoke to anyone about chelsea at all?



not yet mate i was going of do a bit of research first and then propose it to George, keep it under your hat for now


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## TDI-line (26 Feb 2008)

Looking good Sam.


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## Themuleous (27 Feb 2008)

Added some Limnophilia aromatica and Pogostemon stelleta last night from Clive (cheers ) at the back of the tank, think I might still need one or perhaps two mid ground plants, if anyone has any ideas?  Perhaps HM.  And a few more crypts depending on how the ones I have do.

Sam


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## Dave Spencer (27 Feb 2008)

HM would look pretty good around the base of that wood, Sam. Regular trimming will keep it nice and lowish and dense, and the new growth is the best looking part of the plant. Amano`s HM always looks as if he has pruned it two or three days before photographing it.

It is also not the fastest growing stem in the world, which can be handy.

Dave.


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## Themuleous (27 Feb 2008)

Thats what I want thinking, HM around the base and coming out of the centre of the wood.  Will see where I can get some from now.

Cheers Dave


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## Arana (27 Feb 2008)

Just noticed the heart in the wood.... the fish is about to swim through it  

Maybe you could call it "the Heart Of The Forest"


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## Themuleous (27 Feb 2008)

Yeh Biz noticed that before I did, thats a good idea for a scape name. 

Sam


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## ceg4048 (27 Feb 2008)

pics, pics, woot woot...


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## Themuleous (27 Feb 2008)

Haha give it a few weeks, Clive   I'll be sure to update don't you worry 

Sam


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## Arana (1 Mar 2008)

Hoping to pick up some of that wood from Wetpets tomorrow   have you had much leeching from it since it's been in the tank Sam?


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## Themuleous (2 Mar 2008)

No, no leaching yet.  Water looks very cear so far


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## Arana (2 Mar 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> No, no leaching yet.  Water looks very cear so far



Excellent! Wetpets never got there delivery so i'm stil waiting to get my hands on some of that wood


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## Themuleous (5 Mar 2008)

Just thought I would log that I added a fourth Arcadia freshwater to the tank over the weekend, so that's 4x18w tubes.  I have upped it to 9hrs and am running a midday burst method.

3hrs - 2 tubes
3hrs - 4 tubes (3WPG)
3hrs - 2 tubes

I have three ballasts and I guess I could simulate daylight more if I wanted to but not sure yet will see.  The wiring in the cabinet is pretty mad already, so don't want to over complicate things if I needn't.

The New plants seem to be doing OK, the Ludwigia (I think it is) has become a lovely reddy brown under the decent light and CO2, which is nice, doubled in size in under a week.

Sam


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## Themuleous (12 Mar 2008)

Just thought I would add some new pics 

The tank as it is now.  Think I might need to prune things a bit soon, start getting it compact and bushy.










This is what happens when you let L.repens get tall and go red and then you chop the top off and replant it.  Quite a nice effect really.









Sam


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## Moss Man (12 Mar 2008)

That looks brilliant sam, your best yet IMO.
The L. repens is cool too.


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## Themuleous (12 Mar 2008)

Thanks matey  hopefully it'll get better as is develops.

Sam


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## Luketendo (12 Mar 2008)

I do hope that Ludwigia is the same species as mine because I'd love it to do that, unfortunately I'm not sure that my light is strong enough.


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## Arana (12 Mar 2008)

Superb Sam  It just keeps getting better


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## Themuleous (12 Mar 2008)

Thanks Mark


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## CJ Castle (14 Mar 2008)

Looks very good... Excellent photography, also...


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## TDI-line (15 Mar 2008)

Looks excellent Sam.


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## Luketendo (15 Mar 2008)

*Re:*



			
				Luketendo said:
			
		

> I do hope that Ludwigia is the same species as mine because I'd love it to do that, unfortunately I'm not sure that my light is strong enough.



Funnily enough, I just realised that it has... my light isn't has nice as yours and makes my tank a bit yellow.


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## Themuleous (15 Mar 2008)

Thanks all!  The H.poly at the back left is getting taller now and should be ready for a prune in a week or two.  Once that corner fills out it will hopefully bring together to the scape a bit more.

Sam


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## Themuleous (24 Mar 2008)

Quick update, plants doing well, except for the java fern surprisingly.  I've had to take the Pogostemon stellata out (sorry Clive) it was growing and even responded to a prune by sending out side shoots, but it was a bit big for the tank and I wanted to let the C.balansae show a bit more. The Limnophila aromatica is going well and have done a prune and replant, which it has responded well to. I've given everything a good prune so it bushes out.  Gonna borrow a mates DSLR for decent pics   anyway photos.










Sam


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## ceg4048 (25 Mar 2008)

Look a heck of a lot nicer now Sam! Yes, I agree the stelletta needs it's own showcase mate. Those stems were real Frankensteins weren't they? I totally understand.

Cheers,


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## Themuleous (25 Mar 2008)

Thanks Mate  I will def try the stellata again, probably in my new 4ft to give it more space, etc, but it seemed daft to use it in this tank but prevent it from reaching its full potential or to use it effectively.

You forget sometimes how things in a tank change over time!  You see a tank on a daily basis and it doesn't seem to change at all, but when you look back at earlier photos the difference can be quite stark!  The sags have certainly filled out.  The H.poly and L.repens are much more compact than is obvious from the photos, although I guess I did prune off must of the leaves.

Thanks again 

Sam


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## Arana (25 Mar 2008)

Looks Fantastic Sam   

Looking forward to seeing this one in the flesh one day


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## Themuleous (25 Mar 2008)

Arana said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this one in the flesh one day



For sure


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## GreenNeedle (25 Mar 2008)

Sam

You know when I post it will be a different opinion from most so here goes. lol

I find myself looking at your tank and seeing a nice cleancut contrastin tank.  The lovely lush green of the carpet against the luxurious chocolatiness of the wood.

And guess what.......I think the fish look great and I am not the biggest fan of Orange/Red fish as you know.

I think the 'clean' wood is what sticks out for me in this scape.  No moss hiding it and it looks better IMO.

Hope it keeps going for you.

Andy


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## Themuleous (25 Mar 2008)

Cheers for the honest opinion, Andy   I'm not actually much of a fan of moss on wood, especially if its stuck out on the end of a limb, doesn't look very natural to me.

Glad you approve 

If I can just get the H.poly taller but still bushy I think the scape will come together better, more of a triangle effect.  I will admit that the wood it actually a bit big really, it really needs a few inches taking off each of the three main branches to get into scale with the rest of the tank, but it would kill me to do it to such nice wood and with a 4ft just around the corner.

Sam


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## TDI-line (25 Mar 2008)

Hi Sam,

just noticed your filter intake is set high up in the tank, is there any benefit for this?

Thanks, 

Dan.


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## Themuleous (25 Mar 2008)

No idea Dan!! Thats just how long the intake pipe was when I opened the box!!  Didnt realise that until you pointed it out just then!


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## Themuleous (9 Apr 2008)

Thought it was about time for an update 

I'm not sure I like the L.repens or the Limnophila aromatica.  The L.repens doesn't seem to want to busy out at all, thinking I didn't plant it compactly enough i.e. needed to plant more stems.  The Limnophila aromatica is getting a horrible GSA covering on the lower leaves.  Not sure what I'm gonna do with it, will keep going with it and perhaps try something else in a month or two.  The sags are also the wrong choice, think ET would have been better as its finer, the sags are to big for this size tank.  Everything needs a good prune as well!

We live and learn 

Photo time.









Sam

EDIT - the C. balasae is going really well but it just bends over because of the filter flow!!


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## GreenNeedle (9 Apr 2008)

C Balansae bends over with no flow at all. lol

Just tends to be the nature of the beast really.  Once it gets tall enough it will look the part as it rests on the surface and then curls downward slightly at the tips.

I found with L.Repens in my previous scape that if it wasn't directly under the lights it grew a lot slower so I moved it and guess what.  Yep. Grew too fast. Can't win. lol

I quite like the look of the tank Sam.  Nice and green and very clear.  The carpet looks nice but if like you say you are after a sense of proportion then you know best.  As you know I just like growing plants and not too concerned about the 'scape' side. lol

Keep it up and I must own up that I have now copied something from you (Its not just George I copy. he, he)  I have bought 2 of the nano diffusors like yours (Â£4) for my 29G and the one that is in at the mo is working great.  Thanks for the idea.

Andy


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## ceg4048 (9 Apr 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I like the L.repens or the Limnophila aromatica.  The L.repens doesn't seem to want to busy out at all, thinking I didn't plant it compactly enough i.e. needed to plant more stems.  The Limnophila aromatica is getting a horrible GSA covering on the lower leaves.



Sam, try adding more PO4...

Cheers,


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## Themuleous (9 Apr 2008)

Clive - Im adding 3ppm PO4 3x per week, do you think I need more?

Andy - Im hoping the C.bal will reach the surface soon.

Thanks for the compliment re the scape, its a work in progress and as I said, you live and learn.  I am pleased that at least the EI seems to be working for the most part.  A little BBA coming it, which I stamped on with some excel.

I think I will always undersize my diffusers, Ive seen the rihnox 5000 and its huge, bubbles come out of very little of the surface.

Sam


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## ceg4048 (9 Apr 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Clive - Im adding 3ppm PO4 3x per week, do you think I need more?



Well, the GSA thinks you need more.  It's either that or you need better flow mate, no question. I dose 6ppm   but I'm an extremist as you are well aware. You probably need to tweak your CO2 as well.  It could be that the Tennelus is blocking flow...

Cheers,


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## Themuleous (9 Apr 2008)

Its probably flow, I'm running an eheim 2222 which is well under what I should be running, but I got the filter years ago before I got into planted tanks.  I'll try upping the PO4 to 5ppm 3x a week and see if that helps, guess it cant hurt!!!  CO2 seems fine, could up it a bit but its well into the green range.

Thanks for the advice Clive 

Sam


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## Themuleous (29 Apr 2008)

Just a quick update, nothing much to add.  Only that I removed the L.repens, as it really wasnâ€™t doing so well under the H.poly.  This the scape is looking OK, esp now the balansea is that bit taller. Really should chage the Sags for some ET!

Pics 











 





Sam


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## Arana (29 Apr 2008)

Loving it mate, really looking healthy and lush and i think the strong diagonal acroos the tank made but the plants works really well, nice one


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## Themuleous (29 Apr 2008)

Cheers Mark, I swing between hating it and loving it, its all part of the fun I guess!

Sam


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## johnny70 (29 Apr 2008)

Looks fantastic and very very lush   whats the small plant you have over the front of the tank?

JOHNNY


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## Themuleous (29 Apr 2008)

Thanks  The plant is Sagittari natans (dwarf sagattaria) from greenline it gorws like a weed, TBH.  Even it low light tanks!!

Sam


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## LondonDragon (29 Apr 2008)

WOW plants are looking great  love the tank, welldone


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## johnny70 (30 Apr 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Thanks  The plant is Sagittari natans (dwarf sagattaria) from greenline it gorws like a weed, TBH.  Even it low light tanks!!
> 
> Sam



Excellent, thanks Sam  

JOHNNY


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## Steve Smith (30 Apr 2008)

Looks great Sam   Love the red on the balansae stems.


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## Themuleous (30 Apr 2008)

Cheers Steve  yeh the balansea is a great plant, first time Ive used it.  Bit slow growing but worth the wait.  This lot might get kicked for my Gold Fish Bowl tank, to get some instant height into the tank, will be sorry to see it go.  Will def be using it again though.

Sam


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## John Starkey (30 Apr 2008)

Hi Sam, wow the tank looks really nice very healthy plants,i have just put some crypt-balansae into the left corner of my set up so i hope it does as well as yours,take care john. ps: hows the gold fish bowl setup doing.


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## beeky (30 Apr 2008)

There seems to be a few Sagitaria species that are known as "dwarf". I seem to remember S. subulata being one but the whole plant taxonomy area completely confuses me, more so than fish. I don't know if one plant is the same as another and the names been changed, or it's a different species. Hygrophila is another one - is that H. stricta, Nomaphila stricta or a variant of H. corymbosa?  

I grew a dwarf sag in my low tech 2' tank and it only grew (slowly) to about 2cm high. It was completely overshadowed by crypts though but it did spread.


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## Themuleous (30 Apr 2008)

Thanks John  Balansea is pretty undemanding I think. GFB tank is doing ok, bit of algae so adding some amanos and ottos.  Tried to take a better photo but the battery went! Doh!

Sam


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## George Farmer (1 May 2008)

This is your best yet, Sam.  It's very nice.

You can obviously grow plants very well, but with regards the aquascape, you can do better... 

The sag looks very nice and healthy but, for me, it's looks too monotonous and large, along the entire foreground.

If you replaced it, especially around the front of the wood, with something more interesting, I think that would work better.  

Think about transistions to the midground and background.  Rocks can help to hide intentions too, especially around the wood base.

Mixing more plant species can work very well.  Slower growing crypts, anubias and downoi etc. will give the 'scape more sustainability I'm sure you can blag plenty from TGB if budget is an issue?

With a little more work I would strongly consider entering this into the ADA and/or AGA.

Good luck!


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## Aeropars (1 May 2008)

I too find the s. natans too big for a carpeting plant in this scape. But everything looks vibrant!


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## beeky (1 May 2008)

How about Marsilea or even Hydrocotyle verticillata for the foreground, although I'm not sure if the latter stays small enough.


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## Themuleous (1 May 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> This is your best yet, Sam.  It's very nice.
> 
> You can obviously grow plants very well, but with regards the aquascape, you can do better...
> 
> ...



Thanks George, that means a lot.  You are of course right about the Sags, I knew they would probably be to big for the scape but I had them free and the rescape was a spur of the moment things on the way home from the Essex Ukaps meeting.

I have some crypts as midground but I got the wrong type and they are getting swamped by the sags so you cant really see them.  I'll swap out the sags and see how it looks, I can always add some hardscape or different plants in.  The downoi  is an interesting idea, with a glosso carpet?

Don't think I'll be in time for the ADA, but I have a month I guess!

Sam


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