# New tank green algae outbreak



## AndyMcD (7 Jan 2016)

About two weeks ago, I planted up a new tank (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/after-the-riffle-140l-liquid-carbon.38821/).

Tank volume: 140L
Light: Arcadia OTL LED
Light level: 33% (level 8/24)
Photoperiod: 5 hours (45 min ramp up / ramp down)
Carbon: 6ml Easycarbo per day 30 mins before lights on
Fertiliser: TNC Complete - about 1.2ml per day
Substrate: ADA Amazonia
Filtration: JBL CristalProfi 700L/Hour plus Eheim Aquaball Filter 130 550 L/Hour (temporary, will be adding an Eheim external filter with fish). Plants moving in flow even on substrate.
Water changes: 30% every 3 or 4 days
Fauna: Ottos X 4 + Amano shrimp X 1
Fast growing plants: Rotala green and Lindernia Rotundifolia

I ran the tank for several weeks to cycle the filters and Aquasoil before planting.

I started a thread asking for help about what power to set the light (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/arcadia-80-otl-led-power-setting.39237/). No replies 

I am now massively struggling with algae. The tank is literally being overrun by green hair like algae. All plants are gradually being covered in a haze of green hair.

I have tried using a tooth brush and / or gravel cleaner to remove, but it clings on and I am struggling to remove without uprooting the plants that are not yet established.

My plan is:

- Reduce light level to 25% (6/24) - Glosso growing vertically suggesting lower light
- Water change
- Buy CO2 kit and ditch liquid carbon
- Buy Amano shrimp
- Stop dosing fertiliser

Please can someone advise what I would be best doing? Do you think this is an initial tank set up issue that will clear? I'm very concerned that this isn't a temporary diatom algae outbreak!

Help me UKAPS, you're my only hope!


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## PARAGUAY (7 Jan 2016)

This is just what I think others may have another solution . If the hair algae has got so bad you cannot manually remove it all I would firstly use a product such as interprets anti hair algae to get rid of excess amounts,remove any plants beyongd saving and then start preventive measures such as clean gravel vac the substrate regularly. Using George Farmers tip about temporary sticking black tape to cover the glass at substrate level if you have sunlight or strong natural light catching the tank,updating to pressurised CO2 and reducing lighting or raising lighting to reduce intensity try to ensure it has good flow. Finally I wouldn't stop fertilisers.


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## PARAGUAY (7 Jan 2016)

Forgot would not stop liquid carbon unless you have plants that can't thrive with it.Pressurised CO2 and liquid carbon would be a better combination and increase water changes as your intending


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## Miss Pennyapple (8 Jan 2016)

Hi, I have/had a similar issue in my 165L tank recently. Green hair algae started to appear a few weeks after I started dosing Easycarbo to deal with BBA. I was dosing 2.5ml every other day. You say you are dosing 6ml each day?? That seems a lot to me! Why are you dosing so much over the recommended amount specified on the bottle? I've just this week started to only dose it twice a week to see if that stops the hair algae reappearing.


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## AndyMcD (8 Jan 2016)

Paraguay and Miss Pennyapple, thank you for coming back to me.

Paraguay, thanks for your reply. This has happened within days. Mid winter here and in rainy Manchester. No issue with natural sunlight!

Miss Pennyapple, I note you had a similar issue. Trying to match carbon input to light level. If I was using CO2, would increase if algae an issue. Also, liquid carbon supposed to be an algaecide.

From EasyLife.nl website:

Tips for Usage

aquarium with only a few plants : 1 ml per 100 litres daily

aquarium moderately planted : 1 ml per 50 litres daily

aquarium heavily planted : 1 ml per 25 litres daily

150L/25L = 6mL daily.

Ceg4048 and TGM website state that overdosing may be necessary to achieve success with liquid carbon. However, near to bear in mind that Ottos could be sensitive.

Also note, liquid carbon breaks down within 24 hours.


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## alto (8 Jan 2016)

Commiserations!

You might add a couple of these Stiphodon Gobies (they often arrive at the shops rather emaciated so maybe you could "foster" several until tank is done with it's algae period)

Yes CO2 gas is more efficiently used by most plants, but you can succeed using liquid carbon

Daily water changes & algae removal (not so easy as plants are not rooted)

Some of the plants on your list do prefer CO2 gas over liquid CO2

Did you add existing filter media (from other tank) to this tank?

ADA protocol is daily 50%  water changes for the first couple of weeks - it's not clear to me whether you ever did this process - then alternate day changes etc ...

(ADA also offers a solution that should help discourage algaes - "phyton git" perhaps)

(you'd asked these questions elsewhere - don't trim stem plants until they are relatively established, eg, wait 2-4 weeks (or whatever) depending on growth rate)


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## AndyMcD (8 Jan 2016)

Alto, thank you very much for your reply. 


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## alto (8 Jan 2016)

Sorry not really very helpful 

A shrimp army will also help - they are much more efficient & more delicate at picking algae than human hands - Amano shrimp but also Tiger Shrimp, look at what's available & price.

A warning about the Stiphodons, they like to burrow - I have a female & initially she seemed to dig a fair bit, now I don't see any signs (though when I tried to net her, she dove into the soil substrate & disappeared)

You could try a 3 day "blackout" but I'd hesitate with such immature plants - "melt" + algae would be even less fun

Do continue fertilizing - it's very difficult to "starve" algae anyway & may benefit the struggling plants

Lighting 5 hours + 45min ramp up & 45 min ramp down ie 6 1/2 hours or so - or 5h total?
If the former, I'd shorten the "ramp" times to 15-20 min each & then 4h of full lights (at whatever light intensity) 



AndyMcD said:


> Arcadia OTL LED


_The freshwater pendant which is perfect for fish systems and heavily planted aquascaped systems is providing a HUGE 280 PAR at 300mm THROUGH WATER!_
- from Arcadia site so yes, reduce light intensity ... you really want CO2 gas for that sort of PAR (assuming values are representative - note the shape of the light distribution curves)

Maybe also add some floating plants if available


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## AndyMcD (8 Jan 2016)

Picked up five Amano shrimp on the way home from work this evening. Population now 6 shrimp. Tropica would recommend about 28. 

From all your suggestions, I think I'm going wrong due to:

- Insufficient water changes - I cycled the filter and substrate for about 5 weeks, changing about 30% once to twice per week. I did try seeding using mature media from an existing filter, but had issues starting the filter so this may have failed. Since planting I've kept up the same level. This is no where near the ADA recommendation of 50% per day for first week. I had hoped by cycling the substrate this could be avoided. Going to perform some major changes and see if this makes a difference.

- Lighting too intense - 5 hours includes ramp up and down of 45 mins each (cannot change). I'll amend to give a 4 hour at peak (total photoperiod 5.5 hours). I'll keep max intensity between 25 and 33%. Need plants to grow so don't want to drop too much (also think I should add some fertiliser - more likely to starve plants than algae).

- Using liquid carbon rather than CO2 - Insufficient carbon for lighting level. Cannot go higher with liquid carbon, already dosing very heavily. Will buy CO2. Plants able to use CO2 more efficiently.

I will wait before trimming the plants. However, I did remove some Lindernia yesterday as badly affected and preventing flow.

Thank you again for all your responses. Much appreciated.


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## Ryan12345 (9 Jan 2016)

Heres whats going on,
Your new plants are melting as they adjust to your tank, leaving tiny bits of dead plant all over your tank, that causes ammonia spikes which in turn leads to algea.
Water change as often as you can, trim decaying leaves off plants, stir your gravel vac gently around spots that could build up with dead plant and fish waste and siphon it away, just take real care not to uproot your plants at this early stage.
If you are dosing any fert's id cut them right back for a couple of weeks untill your plants are rooted and showing signs of new growth, keep up the co2 dosing as normal and ramp up the ferts slowly as your plants mature.
Your doing the right thing with your lights, keep them on low and for a short period and ramp it up over time like the ferts. Your "bottleneck" will be co2 as you already know, liquid co2 will only get you so far (still amazing for algea control).
Also think about the flow of water around your tank, is there any parts of the water that wouldnt get water flow? Would the bottom of the tank have still or barely moving water? A big turning point in my battle against every algea under the sun was the day i figured out proper water flow.
Help your plants fight that algea!!!


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## alto (9 Jan 2016)

depending on your budget & longterm goals, it's quite possible to set up yeast generated CO2 to get you over this "algae flux" - while yeast CO2 may be less consistent than gas cyclinder CO2, there are methods you can utilize to even the levels (& it's certainly easy to deliver enough CO2 to gas fish)

A cycled tank/filter has an array of bacteria etc that may have significant impact on plants vs algae ... ADA Amazonia releases A LOT of ammonia (likely enough to impact the inhabitants of the "cycled" filter) so unless you have A LOT of plants & fast growth, I suspect those daily water changes significantly impact the tank microflora etc   ... there's a journal here somewhere that records all sorts of exciting algae battles including one akin to your own attack - unfortunately I cant recall enough details to find it


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## AndyMcD (9 Jan 2016)

Ryan12345 and Alto, thank you very much for your replies.

I sent a PM yesterday to DW1305 (Darrell) to highlight this thread and ask help in identifying the algae. He suggested Rhizoclonium, Oedogonium or a green form of diatoms. Looking at images of the three and previous outbreaks on UKAPS, I suspect Rhizoclonium.

Ryan12345, plants are melting and as you say will be causing ammonia spike. Was reading that proteins require higher proportion of nitrogen to carbon, which means ammonia acts as the basic building block. I'm seeing collection of bubbles and can feel a film on top of the water, which I'm guessing is protein. I'm raising the internal filter at night to increase aeration, to try and break this up.

I took a sample of water to my local fish store and asked them to test. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all acceptably low. Hardness levels are low as soft water area. pH low ~ 6.5, I guess due to soft water and ADA Amazonia. Been looking at TNC hardness booster.

While at the LFS, I bought some floating plants (Pistia stratiotes I think) and a bunch of Elodea, which I will keep in the metal strip. I figured these 'healthy' plants will help absorb excess nutrients in the next few weeks and I can remove once I've reached more of a balance.

I'd not thought of it before, but plants introduce an ammonia spike / additional bio load in the first few weeks. Even having matured the filters for a few weeks, by adding the plants, I've still increased the bio load significantly, probably more than the bacteria population can respond to. 

I hadn't appreciated how much the plants would die off before recovering. No wonder the first few weeks are so risky in terms of algae growth. All these failing plants are adding so much organic carbon and ammonia to the tank.

I've added another 5 Amano shrimp taking the total population to 11.

I've changed the lighting to total period of 5.5 hours, with a ramp up of 45 mins, 4 hours steady and ramp down for 45 mins. I have turned the light intensity down to 25% (6/24). This would suggest a PAR of 70 (280/4) at 300mm.


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## AndyMcD (10 Jan 2016)

This weekend, I have:
- Added ten Amano shrimp
- Added water lettuce (Pistia Stratiotes)
- Added Elodea 
- Performed a 60% water change
- Cleaned the filters
- Changed lighting period to 5.5 hours at 25% of max intensity


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## AndyMcD (10 Jan 2016)

Here is a close up of the algae on moss / driftwood:


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## tim (10 Jan 2016)

The shrimp will help a lot, I've had a 2month battle with the same algae in my 3ft, it's still hanging on but I have noticed growth slowing over the last couple of weeks, keep at it Andy, your taking all the right steps to keep it in check.


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## AndyMcD (10 Jan 2016)

Tim, thank you. Good luck! 


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## flygja (11 Jan 2016)

I would suggest doubling or tripling the liquid carbon. But before you do that, grab a few tufts of the algae, put them on a spoon or tiny container, and drop some pure liquid carbon on them, see if that kills them. I've strangely had green thread algae that would die while some just wouldn't. Looked exactly the same with the naked eye.


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## AndyMcD (11 Jan 2016)

Flygja, thanks for the suggestion. 

I will certainly do the test as I may be able to use this to spot dose or remove some of the hardscape / plants on wood etc.

However, with Ottos and shrimp in the tank I now need to be careful about how much I add each day.

Currently I am adding 6mL per day, which is highest dosage on Easycarbo's instructions. Not exceeded their dosage yet.

Thank you for the tip.


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## AndyMcD (28 Jan 2016)

Thanks very for all your advice. I seem to have turned the corner with the algae outbreak.

I think what worked for me:
- water changes
- floating plants (Pistia Stratiotes)
- fast growing stem plant (Elodea)
- Ottos
- Amano shrimp
- Nerite snails
- Photoperiod of 5.5 hours (4 hours at max)
- low light intensity (level 5 of 24)
- adding a reduced dose of fertiliser
- Max Easycarbo daily dose
- UKAPS!

I've bought a CO2 kit. Just need to get a CO2 cylinder. Once installed, I am going to gradually increase light and fertilisation.


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## Ryan12345 (30 Jan 2016)

Good job andy mate  
Nice to hear you won the war!


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## AndyMcD (20 Feb 2016)

Unfortunately, the Rhizoclonium algae outbreak has taken a turn for the worse!

I've decided to try and fight this by improving the environment for the plants. This may seem strange but since 'going live' with this aquascape I have been trying to run it with low light / low ferts. However, I think the plants are suffering, which means organics feeding the algae / plants unable to compete. If I'm going to find the right balance for the tank, I'm going to have to increase light.

I've bought and installed a CO2 system (CO2Art regulator plus 2kg CO2 cylinder). Been running this for about 4 days.

I'm running at about 2bps. Drop checker is green/blue. Also, still dosing maximum Easycarbo daily.

Since adding CO2, I've been adding TNC Complete at recommended dosage. I've also been adding a teaspoon of TNC GH Boost as water is soft. 

I've still got the lights low (level 6/24) and a 5.5 hour photoperiod (45 min ramp up and down).

I've got some BGA appearing (high light?).

Floating plants are going mad. They're now covering about 2/3 of surface. I guess I need to remove some, but worried this may make situation worse.

I've developed a couple of tools to help manually remove the algae. Imagine vacuum cleaner attachments for your gravel cleaner. I've bought a couple of 1 inch conduit connectors. My gravel cleaner should fit into the connector from below. I'm hoping I can scrape the glass and trim the algae / plants and suck the algae and spores out of the tank with the water (similar to George Farmer's moss trimming technique).




 

I'm going to see if I can manually remove as much as I can. I'm going to trim the plants for the first time too.

I'm considering a blackout, but wonder if plants already weak due to low light.

I'd very much appreciate advice.


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (21 Feb 2016)

I definitely think you need to increase fertilisation. The original dose you quoted (1.2ml per day of TNC Complete) was little over half the recommended weekly dose of 14ml for your 140 litre tank.

My little 25 litre nano tank is quite heavily planted and has two LED lights, giving a total of 2000 lumens but I'm only running them at 60% for 9 hours (which includes a 1 hour ramp up and ramp down, so only 7 hours at the 'full' 60%). I am also running pressurised CO₂. I read that you can approximate EI by dosing the full amount 2 or 3 times a week, so for the last month or so I've been dosing 1ml (half a dose) TNC Complete every day, which is roughly three times the normally recommended dosage per week. I have virtually no algae; in fact, my brown hair algae bloom packed its bags and disappeared at about the same time that I started this bigger dose of fertiliser.

For your larger tank, the same regime would require about 7ml of Complete per day, which might get expensive. But you could try dosing the full amount twice a week and see how you get on.


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## AndyMcD (21 Feb 2016)

Mike, thank you for your reply. 

With new tanks, the overwhelming opinion seems to be to keep lights and ferts low. Often, the issue is people have been running with too much light.

The trouble is, I now feel I have done that and ended up with algae anyway (probably due to insufficient water changes).

I've tried to keep my lights and ferts low, but I think the plants are suffering over an extended amount of time and cannot compete so well with the algae.

Having added CO2, I've reached a fork in the road. I can either improve the environment for the plants more and begin adding more ferts and light (slowly) or go the other way and blackout for 3 days.

I agree with your opinion, I need to start adding more ferts and improve the environment for the plants.

Even if the algae does not miraculously disappear over the next few weeks, at least the plants will go into a blackout stronger. More growth will mean I can trim more frequently too.


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## AndyMcD (21 Feb 2016)

The scraping attachment worked well. The scissor attachment didn't.

I've done a really deep clean and big water change today.

I've trimmed the worst affected plants.

I think I'm going to reduce the light intensity from 6 to 5 out of 24 and increase the photoperiod to 7.5 hours (from 5.5 hours).

I've got rid of about 2/3 of the floating plants, as they may be competing for light (shading) and ferts too much with the plants.

I'll go with TNC's standard dosage for now. Lights and CO2 still quite low.


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## AndyMcD (28 Feb 2016)

The previous approach hasn't worked well. This is a shot of my tank AFTER a deep clean. I am definitely losing the battle. I'm going to have do something more drastic.



 

I've just been re-reading a post of Tom Barr's from 2009:

_I do a black out for 2-3 days, add Excel daily at full labeled dose, turn off CO2 and do a water change or two. It's gone thereafter. Focus on water changes and good CO2 for the next 2 weeks and you should be okay. Regards, Tom Barr_

Also:
_
FYI, I've had Rhizo on HC and this method does no harm to HC, Gloss will get leggy with a BO, HC des not.  3 Days is all you need, cover the tank, increase the flow/aeration etc, disconnect CO2 etc. Do a large water change before and after, dose, and then make sure the CO2 is good, maybe add carbon to the filter/Clean filter etc.  Then do another water change 2-3 days later and another 2-3 days after that.  Tweak CO2 good and make sure the Excel is added etc. Reduce the light some and wait from there, also, trim often as needed.  It's not hard to get rid of.  Regards,  Tom Barr

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...ded.html#/forumsite/20495/topics/86697?page=1_

My plan is:
1. Do a 3 day black out.
2. Turn down the light a little and try and hit the sweet spot, now I have CO2. Improve flow by adding second external filter. Focus on getting healthy plants.
3. Consider using Interpret Anti Hair Algae to prevent re-occurrence.

I'd very much appreciate people's opinions.


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## xim (28 Feb 2016)

You started this tank on 7 Jan, which is about 2 months by now.
The tank has not matured yet. And you waited too long before
taking real action (I mean 1 amano shrimp and some Otos was
like doing nothing), giving algae the chance to multiply to this level.

21 Amano shrimp now correct?

I think you have to be patient. It took 4 months for me to "start" to see improvement.
And from the photo taken after a "deep clean", your deep-cleaning doesn't seem
to be very effective, you should have suctioned those green thread algae out as well.

I had tried blackout, didn't work. But I didn't have enough algae eater back then.
So it may work for you.


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## rebel (29 Feb 2016)

Easiest to remove all shrimp then dose with Algaefix. Big water changes and shrimp back in after 4 days.


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## xim (29 Feb 2016)

rebel said:


> Easiest to remove all shrimp then dose with Algaefix. Big water changes and shrimp back in after 4 days.



This method is pretty popular among Southeast Asia hobbyists as well and seems to give good quick results.
I haven't tried that though in my case.


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## AndyMcD (29 Feb 2016)

Xim and Rebel, thank you for replying.

I agree that the tank is still immature and I haven't taken enough action early on. The rate of growth seems to have got worse since adding CO2. I've made the mistake of changing plants while it is still settling. Too many organics. 

I've added 11 Amano shrimp, four Ottos plus two Nerite snails. The maximum Amano shrimp I've seen is five. They may be shy or there are dead shrimp hiding somewhere. I agree, I need to add more.

It's very difficult to remove the algae. I've tried a toothbrush which works where it is thickest. The gravel cleaner isn't very effective, but I can use it to trim the algae and suck it up. 

I think I'll try a blackout for 3 days, then follow this with the Interpret. I'd prefer not to use chemicals at all.

After the blackout, I'll drop the light intensity and add a second external filter (with fish from previous tank - not wanted to add more organics while algae getting worse). Hopefully, this will make it easier for the plants to compete (if they survive the blackout). I'll add more shrimp after the blackout too.

Thanks for your replies. I'd be interested to hear what you think.


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## Sk3lly (29 Feb 2016)

Your plants will survive just fine with 3 days of blackout. Plants are tough! They can survive around the world shipping in dark boxes, so im sure 3 days wont cause them any harm


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## AndyMcD (29 Feb 2016)

Sk3lly, didn't think about shipping. Of course! Andy


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## xim (29 Feb 2016)

AndyMcD said:


> Xim and Rebel, thank you for replying.
> 
> I agree that the tank is still immature and I haven't taken enough action early on. The rate of growth seems to have got worse since adding CO2. I've made the mistake of changing plants while it is still settling. Too many organics.
> 
> ...



I use an air hose to suction them out. For stronger strands, when parts of them 
are sucked into the hose, close the hose opening with your finger and pull to tear them.
The ones that are short or too much entangled with plants or mosses are shrimp's jobs.



 
The above image is from an ADA guide: http://www.adana.co.jp/en/contents/process/index.html

Don't be surprised when they grow faster with CO2, green filamentous algae 
are like plants and share the same basic needs. This is what Tom Barr has said 
(except the word "don't be surprised" ).

As for reducing light after the black-out, I don't know if you have "too much" or 
"just right" at the moment. So I would say from my experience that you can't 
rely on running a planted tank with "too low" lighting to avoid algae. 
The green algae would still persist on the upper region close to the light 
while your plants having growth problem. As you've said, you have to find 
the sweet spot.


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## AndyMcD (29 Feb 2016)

Xim, thank you very much. Very helpful. I will definitely try air hose, as suggested. Andy


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## dw1305 (29 Feb 2016)

Hi all,





xim said:


> Don't be surprised when they grow faster with CO2, green filamentous algae
> are like plants and share the same basic needs.





xim said:


> So I would say from my experience that you can't rely on running a planted tank with "too low" lighting to avoid algae.The green algae would still persist on the upper region close to the light while your plants having growth problem. As you've said, you have to find the sweet spot.


I think this as well, green algae, mosses, ferns and higher plants are all in the clade <"Viridiplantae">. 

If you have a <"large plant mass it definitely reduces algal growth">, but we don't know exactly why. 

This I think is from Tropica originally <via "AquaEssentials">. 


 
cheers Darrel


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## AndyMcD (29 Feb 2016)

Darrel, 

thank you very much for replying. 

I understand that if I make the conditions better for the plants, this algae is likely to benefit also.

Therefore, to attempt to reset the tank, I need to starve the algae of light in the hope that it is more fragile than the plants. I may follow this up with Interpret, to kick it when it is down.

However, I'll then need to improve the conditions for the plants and find the sweet spot. 

A greater army of clean up crew should hopefully prevent re-occurrence, helping to keep young algae under control.

Faster plant growth will help with plant mass and also allow me to trim affected areas more frequently.

Thank you

Andy




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## dw1305 (1 Mar 2016)

Hi all, 





AndyMcD said:


> The previous approach hasn't worked well. This is a shot of my tank AFTER a deep clean. I am definitely losing the battle. I'm going to have do something more drastic.


 I think you need some floating plants.





AndyMcD said:


> However, I'll then need to improve the conditions for the plants and find the sweet spot.


I don't use added CO2, or try to limit the light intensity or light period. 

I just put whatever light I have on a 12 hour day, and then I let the plant mass fill out until it reaches approximate stability. I only feed the plants when the floating plants show deficiency symptoms, via the <"Duckweed Index">. 

The only plants that I regularly thin are the floating plants, and I adjust these to about 2/3 cover in summer and 1/3 - 1/2 cover in winter (when there is less ambient light). If I don't have much light, I have fewer floaters. 

cheers Darrel


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## AndyMcD (1 Mar 2016)

Darrel,

I've previously taken your advice and added Pistia Stratiotes. It's growing incredibly well and last week I removed 2/3, to leave a small portion of the tank covered. By last night (approx 10 days later), at least 1/3 of the tank was covered.

Removing so many plants last weekend has probably contributed to the sudden increase in the algae last week.

I also so have a bunch of Elodea in the tank.

I would have been so much happier with a low tech tank!!!

Thank you for your help.

Andy




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## dw1305 (1 Mar 2016)

Hi all, 





AndyMcD said:


> It's growing incredibly well and last week I removed 2/3, to leave a small portion of the tank covered. By last night (approx 10 days later), at least 1/3 of the tank was covered. Removing so many plants last weekend has probably contributed to the sudden increase in the algae last week.


OK, that probably is a contributory factor. Because floaters have access to aerial CO2 (400 ppm) they aren't carbon limited and if nutrients are available they will grow really quickly. 

I always want my plants to grow more slowly, rather than more quickly.  

Against that I've never had any luck with carpets, probably because the bottoms of my tanks are both gloomy and CO2 depleted. 

cheers Darrel


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## GTL_UK (1 Mar 2016)

Hi.  Had same issues.  Two things Ive done: up your co2,  ignore drop checkers etc just increase it.  Secondly add 3-5 young true Siamese algae eaters and don't feed them at all.  2-3 weeks later my tank was algae free 

Thanks


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## AndyMcD (3 Mar 2016)

The blackout has begun.


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## AndyMcD (7 Mar 2016)

The blackout is complete.




 

The difference is amazing.

I did a 3 day blackout followed by a 60 to 70% water change and cleaned both filters.

The external coarse filter was FULL of hair algae. The small spots of BGA I had have gone too.

It now looks much more realistic in terms of the clean up crew keeping on top of what hair algae may be left.

I'm not going to follow up with the Interpret Anti-Hair Algae, as I am concerned that it may affect the shrimp. Instead, I will add more Amano shrimp. If it looks like it is coming back, I will go for another blackout.

I'm certain some of the plants have grown in the dark! The Rotala Rotundifolia at the back needs a trim, but I am tempted to keep some plant mass for now. I will trim one third, to avoid shocking the system too much.

I have ordered some new floating plants - Salvinia Natans 1-2 Grow, as the pre-blackout plants were full of algae and snails. I have temporarily turned down the lighting, but plan to turn back to the level I was at before (4/24), once they have arrived. I have turned CO2 up. Glosso growing leggy (before blackout) which indicates low light (plan to take it out).

I'm sorry about all of the equipment in the tank. I've now moved all of the fish into this tank. I realise this will increase the organic load, but I can add the second filter and inline heater in next weekend. This will also mean the flow will be increased and more consistent across the tank (both spray bars across the back pointing forward).

To add air, I'm running a small pump with Venturi attached overnight on a timer, but plan to replace with external air pump shortly.


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## alto (7 Mar 2016)

Tank does look very clean 





AndyMcD said:


> I'm certain some of the plants have grown in the dark!


there's some discussion on this is a recent (weeks not days  ) thread ...some plants can do this dark period "elongation" - others not so much, of course plants must also have the available stored "energy" .



AndyMcD said:


> keeping on top of what hair algae may be left.


I'd add red-nose shrimps - they seem much more interested in hair algae & are a fun species to watch



AndyMcD said:


> I'm sorry about all of the equipment in the tank.


What equipment 
... oh you mean the stuff that lives in my tanks, too  
(the obstacles to my taking of photos are mountainous - get new camera & deal with reflections AND remove equipment  - I'm so admiring of those that get the camera out & POST! )

I missed this somewhere 
tank dimensions?
livestock?

Thanks


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## AndyMcD (7 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> there's some discussion on this is a recent (weeks not days  ) thread ...some plants can do this dark period "elongation" - others not so much, of course plants must also have the available stored "energy" .
> 
> I'd add red-nose shrimps - they seem much more interested in hair algae & are a fun species to watch
> 
> ...



Alto, thanks for replying.

The plants do look stretched rather than bushier. Perhaps trying to grow out of the shade.

I'll look out for the red-nose shrimp.

Tank dims: 80cm W x 45cm D x 40 cm H (144 litres)

Livestock:
Danio Choprae x 9
Otocinculus x 4
Nerite snails x 2
Amano shrimp ? Ten purchased but not seen more than 5 at any one time since



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## Konrad Michalski (11 Mar 2016)

In my opinion all you problems were caused by excessive amount of nutrients. You've:
a) used one of the most rich in nutrients substrates available,
b) dosed additional nutrients on top of that,
c) had freshly planted plants, which in initial period after planting don't use that much nutrient anyway
d) short photoperiod which wasn't giving plants the chance to use the nutrients
e) used liquid carbon which will never be as effective as co2,
f) poor water changes, which let the nutrients + ammonia build up to happen
All them factors eventually lead to what you have seen. You need to be very careful with co2, ligh, nutrients dosing, water changes and keep them all in balance otherwise imbalance will eventually lead to an algae bloom.


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## AndyMcD (11 Mar 2016)

Konrad, I completely agree with you. I need to re-think my whole approach. Andy


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## Konrad Michalski (11 Mar 2016)

In my opinion your approach wasn't bad at all. You just didn't follow the water changes regime in the early days after starting up the tank, which with ADA substrate seems to be crucial. First 2-3 weeks I don't even try to dose anything apart from co2, K - everything else is in the soil. After about 3 weeks if everything goes fine I slowly start introducing micro nutrients. And just afer 7-8 weeks first doses of N. If possible I also use air pump to give as much oxygen as my  freshly growing colony of nitrifying bacterias needs. Before you do something just seat, have a pint of good beer/cider and think whether it all make sense. Don't always follow what people say or do as each aquarium is different and because something work for me or you it doesn't have to work for your mate or the other way round. And doesn't matter what will happen be patient and only adjust one thing at the time.


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## AndyMcD (27 Mar 2016)

Since the blackout three weeks ago, the Rhizoclonium has come back, but nowhere near as bad as it was. 

I know it is strongly recommended that you change one thing at a time, but I decided to complete the set up, then give the tank proper time to mature. I think there was too much fertiliser in the water column for the amount of light and CO2.

- Removed the internal filter and added the second external filter (with in line heater). Dramatic improvement in flow.
- Trying to remove algae on a daily basis. Hoping that by keep setting it back, long term this will help to weaken it.
- Decreased dramatically the amount of additional fertiliser I am adding, for now.
- Dropped the light intensity to 3/24 (from 4/24). Sounds extreme but plants pearling and growing well.
- Increased CO2 bubble rate
- Stopped changing plants, which was adding to organics
- Increased trimming plants, to give them good structure and then keep on top of them. Remove algae infested leaves.
- Added Salvinia Natans 1-2 Grow pot (threw half the plants away yesterday as covering two thirds of the surface within three weeks)
- Added three more Amano shrimp
- Added air pump on a timer which comes on overnight.

Fundamentally, I think that there was too much goodness in the water column (I've not done enough water changes initially). I will gradually increase fertilisation over time (keeping an eye on floating plants).

I haven't beaten this, but I am more hopeful.

Thank you all again for your advice.

The following picture was taken at night with air pump running.


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## tim (27 Mar 2016)

Algae issues aside I really like this scape Andy, it's a stunner.


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## AndyMcD (27 Mar 2016)

Tim, thank you very much!!! Andy


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## Nelson (27 Mar 2016)

tim said:


> Algae issues aside I really like this scape Andy, it's a stunner.


Same here .


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## AndyMcD (27 Mar 2016)

Nelson, thank you very much!!! Andy


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