# Sparkling Gourami breeding & hydra questions



## shangman (1 Oct 2020)

Hello!

2 weeks ago I got some small sparkling gouramis (was planning on waiting a bit, asked the shop if they'd have them in a few weeks, then they ordered them in for me 3 days later ). I've attached a photo of the tank, apologies for the weird distortion,my phone would only take a well-lit shot in panorama for some bizarre reason.

They don't seem to notice flake food, so I've been feeding them small daphnia and ostrapods/tiny motorised butterbeans from my water butt. This made made them get much bigger and more colourful rather quickly, and they've been croaking a lot. I thought I had 2 males and a female, and discovered I was right last night as I saw them coupling up, with the larger male making a hidden bubble nest in some salvinia roots. I asked for 2 females and a male, but they said they were too young to sex. Came home and realised I obviously have 2 males and a female from the spots... the smaller male is looking a bit ragged this morning, but I don't have another tank for him to go in 

My question is... 1. do I need to culture infusoria for the babies? I have lots of plants and dead leaves in the tank, and I regularly dose with waterbutt animals, so not sure if they might already exist there.

2. I have a lot of green hydra.. I had a few at first which were cool, but in the past 2 weeks they've been feasting on the waterbutt animals too and have spread everywhere getting quite long. I watch them eating, which is interesting, but I don't want to watch them eating any baby fish. I was thinking of dosing the tank with some pancur stuff to get rid of them earlier in the week, and now I think I really need to get rid of them so they don't eat the baby fish (if they hatch). Do you think it'll be safe for the eggs to dose with this now? 

This is my first tank, and my first breeding, so it's very exciting and I want to do what I can to make it successful  You can't see the gouramis below, butthe nest is slap bang in the top middle of the tank!


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## dw1305 (1 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 
Use the Panacur, it has an instant effect on Hydra.  Dosing details are in the <"Hydra"> thread. Both Hydra and _Trichopsis pumila _like small live food, and it was <"in their tank"> where I used to have real Hydra problems.





shangman said:


> do I need to culture infusoria for the babies?


It would be useful. The fry are incredibly tiny and need "green water" initially and they are also very surface orientated.  You may well get some survive in the tank, they are reasonably unproblematic for such a tiny fry. 

You could try Vinegar Eels in the future, they are very low maintenance and small enough for most fry (but not these).  You may be able to float a margarine tub/takeaway dish in the tank, and you can pipette the fry into it, as you see them. It just needs a small amount of water and moss, leaves, _Salvinia_ etc.  

Have a look on Killifish sites for details.

Because the tub has a large surface area to volume ratio, plants and they are Labyrinth fish, you don't need a filter, just to change a little bit of water every day (very carefully).

cheers Darrel


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## castle (1 Oct 2020)

I can spot that kuhli in the picture, and they will eat any fry they find (I have learnt, the hard way).

Green water should take maybe a week to get going, just get some hay for hamsters or something, stick it in the bottom of a 2L kilner jar, put a lamp over the top/in a window and make sure it's room temperature (18-21) and you'll have some green water pretty fast. With teeny fish, I normally would have a secondary tank but as you do not, I'd probabaly add 100ml of green water every day to the main tank as soon as you see the eggs. 

From this point on, you should also be doing regular very small water changes, exactly as you are now, or from rainwater if you can get it. 


Excellent that they're spawning, I have always liked sparkling gouramis, but always been a bit put off by their ruthless predatory nature


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## shangman (1 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Use the Panacur, it has an instant effect on Hydra.  Dosing details are in the <"Hydra"> thread. Both Hydra and _Trichopsis pumila _like small live food, and it was <"in their tank"> where I used to have real Hydra problems.It would be useful. The fry are incredibly tiny and need "green water" initially and they are also very surface orientated.  You may well get some survive in the tank, they are reasonably unproblematic for such a tiny fry.
> 
> You could try Vinegar Eels in the future, they are very low maintenance and small enough for most fry (but not these).  You may be able to float a margarine tub/takeaway dish in the tank, and you can pipette the fry into it, as you see them. It just needs a small amount of water and moss, leaves, _Salvinia_ etc.
> ...



Perfect advice thanks, that's just what I wanted to know. I'll get some Panacur and follow your dosing instructions! I guess I'll get a pipette too and see if I can do some catching. 

For tanks - I just bought a 25l nano tank for shrimp that literally arrived this morning, it's empty atm (the shrimp in my main tank are slowly dying/disappearing I think due to the rainwater so I'm setting one up just for them). It was going to be tap water though. I could just put a bit of water in with some floating plants and the hay for a few weeks? The male is sticking very close to the eggs atm so I think I shouldn't move them yet? Then I could maybe grow them on it there until they're big enough/if they survive. A margarine dish also sounds like a good plan though too, they would be easier to see than in this new tank.




castle said:


> I can spot that kuhli in the picture, and they will eat any fry they find (I have learnt, the hard way).
> 
> Green water should take maybe a week to get going, just get some hay for hamsters or something, stick it in the bottom of a 2L kilner jar, put a lamp over the top/in a window and make sure it's room temperature (18-21) and you'll have some green water pretty fast. With teeny fish, I normally would have a secondary tank but as you do not, I'd probabaly add 100ml of green water every day to the main tank as soon as you see the eggs.
> 
> ...



Yes I have 7 kuhlis! Did you ever get any survival with your fry in kuhli tanks? They are well fed with live blackworms, daphnia and pellets. I watch them hunt a lot and they are a bit rubbish at getting anything that isn't directly under their nose though, so fingers crossed they don't get them all!

Thank you for the advice on green water, I'll get that going today too. Fingers crossed there's enough there for them to have in the meantime. I was wondering about the water changes, so I'll do it like that. Luckily the tank is rainwater, and I only use rainwater in that tank for waterchanges, hopefully that helps! I have 1 waterbutt full of brown water that's full of live food (this is where I feed everything from), do you think it's worth just putting that water in? My thought is that it might also have tiny tiny baby live food in it as well. 

Their predatory nature is quite exciting - I love feeding them and watching them hunt! The female atm is VERY agressive though, last night her and the small male looked perfect, now they're both a bit ragged and she keeps having a go. 

If the babies do survive I have no idea what I'll do with them, but it seems lovely to try!


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## shangman (5 Oct 2020)

Well, they're at it again 

Tonight I put some bloodworms in the tank, and to make sure the male got some I sprinkled some directly in front of him at the top/middle of the tank. He ate some, and the female came along too and had one directly from the tweezers. I thought to myself 'she's looking fat', and less than a minute later they started to mate again. The male brought an egg over to the nest (which has moved from before), and I've spotted some tiny, tiny fry which look a bit like mosquito larvae. I'm going to leave the nest there for now, as my green water hasn't matured yet (the low light has been v annoying to me because of this!). The male is also still so attentive, I'm going to leave them be for now, assuming that there will be more spawnings in the future! I'm very glad that they were suggested here for my tank, as they've got such interesting behaviour! 

Another question - how do people take nice photos of their tanks? I feel like I need some kind of macro lense or something, my boyfriend has very posh cameras but no micro lenses annoyingly. I' love to join the journal brigade, but I feel like some nice photos are needed for that.


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## shangman (20 Oct 2020)

Hello again,

Just have another question... my sparking gouramis are lovely, but they don't seem to recognise any food but live food and it's making me a bit worried. Now it's getting cold I think my stocks of daphnia/copepods in my waterbutts are going down, and I'm at the allotment much less (was there at least 3 times a week during the summer/early autumn, but now only once a week). I'm currently feeding them live food twice a week, but Im worried that I might be under feeding them (I don't have experience keeping fish and feeding so not sure, they get a big netful each time with at least as much as a 90ml bought packet, but probs more each time). They have grown a lot, and sparking and have done some breeding attempts, but I feel bad that they're constantly on the look out and but finding much. They usually eat everything I put in within 12- 24 hours (with help from kuhlis). I don't live very close to a fish shop so weekly bought food is difficult too. They don't seem to care for frozen food or flake (which is what I've tried), they've eaten all the live food I've put in )bloodworms, blackworms, daphnia, copepods).

So my question is, is less feeding ok, or is there a way to train them to eat flake? What do you guys do with food stocks during the winter?


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## lilirose (20 Oct 2020)

No fish will starve itself to death in the presence of edible food. Just keep feeding flakes and stop feeding live foods, that's the "training" required. If you give in first, then the fish have trained you.


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## MWood (20 Oct 2020)

Mine eat the small Fluval Bug Bites, took them a week or so to work it out. However, I think I'll get a grindal worm culture on the go once the live food is less plentiful outside, maybe whiteworms too.

The gouramis are extremely loud - hoping this indicates some breeding, have you heard anything from yours? I've not witnessed any mating behaviour, though there's a lot of the tank which is too densely planted to see, let alone observe any potential fry.


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## shangman (20 Oct 2020)

lilirose said:


> No fish will starve itself to death in the presence of edible food. Just keep feeding flakes and stop feeding live foods, that's the "training" required. If you give in first, then the fish have trained you.


My cats have trained me well to spoil all my pets!! I'll give it a go though, thankyou for the reassurement 



MWood said:


> Mine eat the small Fluval Bug Bites, took them a week or so to work it out. However, I think I'll get a grindal worm culture on the go once the live food is less plentiful outside, maybe whiteworms too.
> 
> The gouramis are extremely loud - hoping this indicates some breeding, have you heard anything from yours? I've not witnessed any mating behaviour, though there's a lot of the tank which is too densely planted to see, let alone observe any potential fry.


Ahh, I'll try the bug bites, thank you!

yes, mine are very loud too, and they have been breeding, though none have got to free-swimming fry yet (and annoyingly my greenwater culture didn't work  ). The mating is super interesting, they prefer the dark thick brown roots of one of my salvinias over any of the other floating plants. I thought I had 2 males and a female, before I saw the big male mating with the smaller 'male', who my big female absolutely hates, lots of fish drama.


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## shangman (22 Oct 2020)

MWood said:


> Mine eat the small Fluval Bug Bites, took them a week or so to work it out. However, I think I'll get a grindal worm culture on the go once the live food is less plentiful outside, maybe whiteworms too.
> 
> The gouramis are extremely loud - hoping this indicates some breeding, have you heard anything from yours? I've not witnessed any mating behaviour, though there's a lot of the tank which is too densely planted to see, let alone observe any potential fry.


Bingo! My Bug Bites came today and they're eating them immediately! Thanks for the tip


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## MWood (22 Oct 2020)

Fantastic news!


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