# New low tech tank idea, please advise



## cozmoz

*Just to let anyone viewing this thread know; I change this post based on recommendations and findings.*

Hi there,

This is my plan for my second ever planted tank after going two years without owning an aquarium due to my circumstances, it should just be a simple aquarium with the addition of a Betta Splenden or 5 Neon Tetra once the aquarium has been running for 3 weeks.

The tank size is 45cm x 25cm x 25cm (28 Liters; 7.39 Gallons), I plan on setting it up as follows:

*Lighting*

Helix Fluorescent Desk Lamp Classic VI7 11W Titanium
Bulb tbc

*Substrate*

Potting soil (type tbc)
Unipac Fiji Coarse Sand 2.5kg
5mm natural gravel (from previous tank)

*Decor*

Pagoda Rock (6kg)
Manzanita Wood (4 pieces)

*Plants*

Sagittaria subulata (5 cm - 30 cm high; fast growing)
Cryptocoryne Becketii (up to 20 cm high; medium, slow growth)
Microsorium Pteropus Windelov (10 cm - 20 cm high; slow growth)
Echinodorus Parviflorus (5 cm - 15 cm high; medium growth)
Cryptocoryne Wendtii (up to 10 cm high; slow growth)
Cryptocoryne Parva (5 - 7cm high; very slow growth)
Vesicularia montagnei - Christmas Moss (slow growth)

Ceratophyllum Demersum Hornwort - (floating on the surface while other plants establish themselves)

*Pump*

Eheim Ecco 2231 External Filter

I used this article as a basic guide trying to make sure I don't use plants that are to large for a aquarium of this size http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3855

Would this set up be ok? Advice regarding any further nutrition and maintenance that would be needed once the tank is set up would also be appreciated, cheers!


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## cozmoz

After doing further reading here http://lowlightlowtechplanted.blogspot.com/ I have changed my mind regarding filters and now plan to purchase a *Eheim AquaCompact 40 External Nano Filter*. Does anyone know if the tubing on this is replaceable? I would like to keep the canister on the floor   . 

I am also looking into alternative lighting options.


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## cozmoz

Would an 11w PL light be adequate for this set up?


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## Brenmuk

I've not used the lighting and filters you suggest but about 11W of light should be fine for this size of tank. I have an Arcadia 11w Arc Pod Lamp with my 35l arc tank.
The PFK article you mention above does not say much about on going maintenance and ferts. You might struggle to grow the Echinodorus Tennellus without some CO2 enrichment. You could perhaps replace it with Cryptocoryne Parva for example. Or if you want to keep it you could add liquid carbon such as Excel and ferts such as TPN+.


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## OllieNZ

cozmoz said:
			
		

> After doing further reading here http://lowlightlowtechplanted.blogspot.com/ I have changed my mind regarding filters and now plan to purchase a *Eheim AquaCompact 40 External Nano Filter*. Does anyone know if the tubing on this is replaceable? I would like to keep the canister on the floor   .
> 
> I am also looking into alternative lighting options.



Thats quite an unsightly filter :?  it looks like it uses standard eheim tubing so yes at a guess. I think the smallest eheim ecco pro (the 130?) would be a better investment as it would have less impact internally in the tank. 
Cant offer any advice on the light sorry  

Ollie


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## cozmoz

OllieNZ said:
			
		

> Thats quite an unsightly filter :?  it looks like it uses standard eheim tubing so yes at a guess. I think the smallest eheim ecco pro (the 130?) would be a better investment as it would have less impact internally in the tank.
> Cant offer any advice on the light sorry
> 
> Ollie



Thanks for the prompt reply  I actually quite like the look of it despite many thinking it looks bad and may add a black vinyl to the aquarium, not to mention it's half the price of other external filters and I'm on a budget. It's good to know that I should probably be able to put it on the ground as it would otherwise be a no go for me (I'll contact the seller just in case).

What do you think of the rest of the setup, should it be okay?


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## cozmoz

Brenmuk said:
			
		

> I've not used the lighting and filters you suggest but about 11W of light should be fine for this size of tank. I have an Arcadia 11w Arc Pod Lamp with my 35l arc tank.
> The PFK article you mention above does not say much about on going maintenance and ferts. You might struggle to grow the Echinodorus Tennellus without some CO2 enrichment. You could perhaps replace it with Cryptocoryne Parva for example. Or if you want to keep it you could add liquid carbon such as Excel and ferts such as TPN+.



Thanks, I'll change that plant over, good to know the lighting will be okay  . As far as adding ferts go, I was planning to add 2.5ml of Tropica Plant Nutrition+ once a week.


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## OllieNZ

I would definitly check on the filter, thinking about it the pump may not be designed to handle the extra distance. If budget is tight check ebay, I picked up a 2yr old ecco and pipework for £20 in vgc

Ollie


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## cozmoz

What do you think of the Eheim Classic 2213? It seems to be available for £44.90 new.

http://theaquaticgazette.com/2011/06/09 ... ssic-2213/


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## OllieNZ

They are a good filter just a little difficult to maintain. A couple of tips if you do buy one: buy a set of eheim quick disconnects/shutoff taps(otherwise you have to remove all the pipework to clean the filter), you can also buy basket sets for them otherwise you have to tip everything out to get to the mech sponge which is at the bottom of the canister. They dont usually come with biomedia either so dont bother with expensive ehiem biomedia just use cheap plastic bioballs, better flow and less chance of going anerobic.

Regards

Ollie


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## cozmoz

Thanks, I'll definitely buy the quick disconnect valves!


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## Morgan Freeman

Brenmuk said:
			
		

> I've not used the lighting and filters you suggest but about 11W of light should be fine for this size of tank. I have an Arcadia 11w Arc Pod Lamp with my 35l arc tank.



The Arc pod is a T5 light so will be a little higher than a standard PL bulb of the same wattage right?

I use a standard 11 watt PL light at 40cm tall and it's great for a low tech. Tank is around 8 gallons.


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## cozmoz

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Brenmuk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've not used the lighting and filters you suggest but about 11W of light should be fine for this size of tank. I have an Arcadia 11w Arc Pod Lamp with my 35l arc tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Arc pod is a T5 light so will be a little higher than a standard PL bulb of the same wattage right?
> 
> I use a standard 11 watt PL light at 40cm tall and it's great for a low tech. Tank is around 8 gallons.
Click to expand...


That's great! I've actually ordered the Helix Fluorescent Desk Lamp Classic VI7 11W Titanium with the intention of swapping the bulb over with an aquatic one (probably the Tetratec Al Aquarium Light 11w) so this is very good news for me. Just wanted to get a look at the bulb it comes with first.


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## Morgan Freeman

I'll get some pics up soon to give you an idea, I imagine my tank is probably a similar size. It's mainly crypts, a few stem plants and some dwarf sag.


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## cozmoz

Another question, my water hardness is 374.75 mg/l according to my water company, will this be okay? Also are there any testing kits you guy's prefer to use and things I should test for before making further purchases.


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## cozmoz

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> I'll get some pics up soon to give you an idea, I imagine my tank is probably a similar size. It's mainly crypts, a few stem plants and some dwarf sag.


Cool, thanks!


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## Morgan Freeman

I live in a hard water area and don't have any problems.


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## cozmoz

Good to hear, which substrate do you use? I've been reading mixed reviews about TetraPlant Complete Substrate and am considering going for ADA Aqua Soil NEW Amazonia 3L instead.

On the other hand I am wondering if this is due to people not capping it properly, I was going to follow the guidance given from pfk in my original post plus use a 1 inch cap in the hope that this will allow me to remove plants if need be without causing to many issues.


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## OllieNZ

Everyone that uses AS Amazonia seems to rate it. Im more of a diy guy and am going to try John Innes No3 compost mixed with sand and then capped. I dont think the depth of the cap matters when moving plants as anything with deep roots is going to drag up some of the underlayer on its way out. I also live in a hard water area and have no problems with plants.
Regards
Ollie


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## cozmoz

Thanks Ollie. I had used potting soil as a substrate in my last aquarium over 2 years ago and had great growth but with some algae problems, although, this was a well lit aquarium supplementing with Flourish Excel and liquid ferts.

To be honest the only problem I really had with this is dirt been lifted and coming up with my fish darting around but the layer of gravel was very thin. I think I'm gonna stick with the TetraPlant Complete Substrate and use a thick cap over the top and vacuum anything that happens to come up and maybe top up.

Any idea how long someone can run an aquarium like this before having to start over or topping up the underlayer? Once again I will be adding 2.5ml of Tropica Plant Nutrition+ to this aquarium on a weekly bases.


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## Morgan Freeman

cozmoz said:
			
		

> Good to hear, which substrate do you use? I've been reading mixed reviews about TetraPlant Complete Substrate and am considering going for ADA Aqua Soil NEW Amazonia 3L instead.
> 
> On the other hand I am wondering if this is due to people not capping it properly, I was going to follow the guidance given from pfk in my original post plus use a 1 inch cap in the hope that this will allow me to remove plants if need be without causing to many issues.



I use Amazonia 2, love it. Have used eco complete before but I definitely prefer this.


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## cozmoz

Do you use anything else with it? Any tips you'd be willing to share?


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## Morgan Freeman

No just on it's own. I'm still new to planted tanks, I had a high tech which eventually went well but it was too much hassle, I much prefer this method. I literally add a bit of liquid carbon every so often and micro/macro ferts maybe twice a week. 50% water change every 6/7 days. Seems to be working.


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## cozmoz

Thanks, I think I'm going to stick with the TetraPlant Complete Substrate as it's closer to Diana Walstad's method for now.


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## cozmoz

Hi guy's I was thinking of adding Echinodorus Paniculatus to this tank in the hope of it growing out of the water, would this be okay? if not could you suggest any alternatives? Thanks!


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## cozmoz

Just worried it might be a bit to tall but I'm not experienced in different plant species, also would lillies be a good addition since I plan on keeping a betta, are there any you guy's would recommend for low tech?

Once this has been decided I think I'm all set


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## cozmoz

Would Echinodorus Ozelot be a better option then Echinodorus Paniculatus?


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## OllieNZ

cozmoz said:
			
		

> Just worried it might be a bit to tall but I'm not experienced in different plant species, also would lillies be a good addition since I plan on keeping a betta, are there any you guy's would recommend for low tech?
> 
> Once this has been decided I think I'm all set



A lilly would be good for the betta as they appreciate a bit of cover any of the commonly available nymphaea sp would be ok I think the tiger lotus is probably the most common.


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## cozmoz

Thanks for the species name, tiger lily looks a little big for this tank, I think I'll give Nymphoides aquatica a try, are there any signs I should look out for if my plants are suffering from a light deficiency?


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## cozmoz

Not to worry, this article here was very useful for info regarding deficiencies and trimming.

http://www.ukaps.org/plant-maintenance.htm


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## OllieNZ

Here is another one for you, it mentions light at the bottom of the page
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm


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## cozmoz

Thanks Ollie!


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## cozmoz

I've had Diana Walstad's book arrive today, it's been an interesting read so far, I'm definitely going to use potting soil now. The CO2 in an El Natural tank comes from the potting soil decomposing.


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## OllieNZ

Have you read this? http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/433-Non-CO2-methods its Tom Barr's(aka Plantbrain) take on low tech.


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## cozmoz

I suppose since I've already got the NatureSoil sitting in some water I could just buy some potting soil or peat and add it to so a separate container and then use it as a bottom layer.

I could go down the leonardite route but I have no idea where I can get hold of a solid form of it. Would getting hold of leonardite and adding to the naturesoil in liquid form be an option prior to setting up the aquarium? Also I can only get hold of a small amount of mulm at this point from my girlfriends aquarium filter, I'm not sure if it would be enough. 

I've also emailed info@oliver-knott.com for more info regarding which minerals are included in NatureSoil but they've not got back to me yet.

What do you think?


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## dw1305

Hi all,
Congratulations on buying Diana s' book, best £25 I've ever spent. Personally I would mix a relatively small proportion of soil with sand. I think substrates with a lot of organic matter and nutrients are more difficult to handle initially. 

If you would like to make the mix richer you always can by adding dried balls of soil, pushed under the substrate under _Echinodorus_, _Cryptocoryne_ etc. I've done this with pellets of clay, wrapped around "Growmore" or "Osmocote"where I've felt the plants would benefit.

I also add dead Oak or Beech leaves and Alder Cones to all my tanks now as well, so these will trickle organic matter into the substrate as they are degraded.

cheers Darrel


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## cozmoz

Well that would be closer to the book which I want to use for guidance and should also help with stopping the soil reaching the surface when removing plants. Would you say 1 part soil to 2 parts sand would suffice? Do you need to cap it when you do this?

Also adding further soil mixed in with clay in the manner you described sounds like a great idea when plants start showing nutrient deficiencies.

Thanks!


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## dw1305

Hi all,


> Would you say 1 part soil to 2 parts sand would suffice? Do you need to cap it when you do this?


 Yes, I'd put the soil in the lower layer and then cap it with 100% sand. I don't think the sand:soil proportion is critical, I like a lean mix because I'm primarily interested in having plants to add stability to the aquarium, and I'm not bothered about growing more demanding plants, optimal growth, aquascaping etc.

cheers Darrel


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## cozmoz

Okay, thanks.


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## BigTom

Agree with Darrel, I used a roughly 1:1 mix of compost/sand, capped with an inch or so of pure sand and seems to have  worked well.


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## cozmoz

I thought compost would be to rich? What type of compost did you use?


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## BigTom

cozmoz said:
			
		

> I thought compost would be to rich? What type of compost did you use?



One of the John Innes mixes, think it might have been Number 5 but not entirely sure (one of the leaner ones anyway).

I hear Miracle Grow aquatic compost is also OK.


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## cozmoz

Thanks, I think I have all the info I need for now


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