# Flat bottomed stand - adding feet?



## Epiphyte (14 Feb 2021)

Potentially stupid question, but best be safe than sorry.

I have an ADA stand which is flat bottomed, or flat-ish, basically sitting on a rectangle of 3" wood with a central brace, although the tank stand itself is one open area.

My floors in my mid-19th century home are incredibly uneven, so the tank needs shimmed. This is a lot easier with some 50mm screw in TPVC feet I have. I am confident that 6 of the feet (one in each corner, two mid-tank) are strong enough to handle the 200-300kg of the tank and stand, but is converting the flat bottomed tank (assuming designed to withstand the loads spread over the whole 750x450 area) to one with feet (load concentrated in 6x 50mm feet) going to produce loads on the 3" wood sub structure that could be dangerous?

I'm sure it's fine but I'd like to know what others have done, I really wouldn't like to find 150 litres of water on my floor one morning

I have done it already, the tank needing a 10mm shim in one corner, but thought I'd check before I commission the tank


----------



## Andrew Butler (14 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> Potentially stupid question


+


Epiphyte said:


> My floors in my mid-19th century home are incredibly uneven


+


Epiphyte said:


> produce loads on the 3" wood sub structure that could be dangerous?


= SENSIBLE QUESTION!

This MIGHT all work well and good on a solid concrete floor but how this relates to your situation is a completely different question...........

Start thinking things like what's below each individual foot, are you sure that the floorboards are sound, stable and have the ability to support the weight in that particular place.
That's aside from the supporting timbers joists being sound, their size, location compared to the feet and also where the feet would be compared to the joist supports and then again the integrity of the joist supports.
If this makes sense then great, if not then ask away and I'll try to make things easier to understand.


----------



## Epiphyte (14 Feb 2021)

Thanks @Andrew Butler. Going by the temperature of my floor I'm going to say there isn't much between the wood and the concrete! It's more than strong enough though, the tank itself is going where my old 350L tank (sat on 8 feet) was located.

Here is the bottom of the stand. As you can see the surface area the stand base used.to be large but with the feet added I am concerned about stressing the stand between the feet.






When Screwfix opens tomorrow I'll buy a 50mm hole saw and have some neater shims for the feet, then work out how to shim the centre feet so they're not hanging in thin air!


----------



## Andrew Butler (15 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> Going by the temperature of my floor I'm going to say there isn't much between the wood and the concrete!


The flooring likely feels cold as it's vented beneath. The structural integrity of a wooden floor is a world apart from a concrete one an to be looked at completely differently.


Epiphyte said:


> It's more than strong enough though, the tank itself is going where my old 350L tank (sat on 8 feet) was located.


If you're happy it's strong enough then that's your decision but personally I would be just as concerned about what lays beneath the feet as the cabinet itself. The previous 8 feet may have sat on places that were better supported and your newer 6 foot aquarium although lighter may have feet fall in places that are not supported in the same way.

Ignoring this as you're happy with your flooring....................

You've not shown the front of the cabinet or its construction to give input with my personal opinion on that part.
Whether the feet in their position shown support the construction in a way it will transfer the load from above would depend on the construction above this and could make a fifference.

Assuming the feet are in an effective position
-The foot itself I've no idea about but check it is intended to be used with such loads
-Do the feet have a solid construction or are they hollow inside?
-If you're looking to make a support for a foot that is 50mm in itself then remember a 50mm holesaw is intended to cut a 50mm hole, not leave a 50mm piece inside it for you to use, you could quite easily be left with a piece that's only 45mm or less even to use.
-I'd want to leave an amount of material around the foot that you intend to use as the packing shims. Some materials can just disintegrate if they have stress forced near their edges.
-Making these shims waterproof could make a difference, even if you use a plywood that has a waterproof glue then you will need to seal it.

There could be a better solution to your foot problem out there but it's upto you if you're interested or happy with what's planned. This is ignoring the timber floor issue.

This is all my personal opinion and doesn't mean it's right.


----------



## mort (15 Feb 2021)

Just to add to Andrews thoughts.

If you can easily have one of the floor boards up then I'd check where the joists are. I think in most houses they are a foot apart, so if you can mark that and then have your load directed evenly over them, you will be far safer.

Personally I would probably get a bit of plywood and level that before placing the stand on it. It means you get a more even distribution of weight on the stand.
I've not seen the ada stands so don't know how they are constructed but most chipboard cabinet constructions come with feet, so I don't think the stand is an issue, rather the pressure points on the floor but if the weight is spread evenly I don't think it will be an issue.


----------



## Epiphyte (15 Feb 2021)

Thanks both for the replies.

I've been checking the floor out as best as I can and I'm confident with it. It's really solid, no movement anywhere. As I say I had my 350 sat in the same place for 6 months and there isn't even the slightest evidence on the floor that there was a half ton bit of furniture there.


Andrew Butler said:


> You've not shown the front of the cabinet or its construction to give input with my personal opinion on that part.
> Whether the feet in their position shown support the construction in a way it will transfer the load from above would depend on the construction above this and could make a fifference.



Here is the tank. I think the base is made by a structure of 3 x 3/4" with a layer of 3/4" of something on top. It looks like ply but the tank is too light for it to be made from ply.

The only thing I am not a fan of is the design of the sides of the tank, that they are only half supported, but all ADA stands seem to be made like this and I'd like to think they know what they're doing.

View attachment 162985View attachment 162986



Andrew Butler said:


> The foot itself I've no idea about but check it is intended to be used with such loads
> -Do the feet have a solid construction or are they hollow inside?


These are the feet I am using. I've used them before (which is why I had them lying around) and they seem plenty strong. I can put 100kg of me on them and they seem sturdy, so I imagine maybe  ~40kg per foot (assuming 250kg tank) they should be more and up to the task.


Andrew Butler said:


> If you're looking to make a support for a foot that is 50mm in itself then remember a 50mm holesaw is intended to cut a 50mm hole, not leave a 50mm piece inside it for you to use, you could quite easily be left with a piece that's only 45mm or less even to use.
> -I'd want to leave an amount of material around the foot that you intend to use as the packing shims. Some materials can just disintegrate if they have stress forced near their edges.
> -Making these shims waterproof could make a difference, even if you use a plywood that has a waterproof glue then you will need to seal it.


You would think that given I have spent a fair bit of time drilling holes with holesaws this week for a bookcase I was building I would have clocked on to this, but no! I've got a 76mm saw which I've cut discs out of and will place them under the feet rather than between the feet and the cabinet. At least this way I'm enlarging the surface area of the feet on to the floor. Again, I used this method on the old tank and the ply wasn't even slightly deformed when I took it apart.


Andrew Butler said:


> There could be a better solution to your foot problem out there but it's upto you if you're interested or happy with what's planned. This is ignoring the timber floor issue.


I'd love to find a better solution as this is a little ugly, but I can't think of one without having access to a full workshop of tools.



mort said:


> Personally I would probably get a bit of plywood and level that before placing the stand on it. It means you get a more even distribution of weight on the stand.



This is definitely the solution I would have liked to have done, but the floor is roughly 10mm out across the length of the tank, so even with some 1/2" ply I'd be removing so much if it and I just don't have the tools to do this sadly.


----------



## Andrew Butler (15 Feb 2021)

mort said:


> I think in most houses they are a foot apart


Did you mean to say this close? (300mm) 
A typical UK build would usually be either 450mm or 600mm centres, older buildings are a different game altogether so could be anything but even if they were 1' / 300mm apart then the strength would still depend on the structure as a whole and where those feet are in relation to support underneath. @Epiphyte seems quite happy with what's underneath so I'll close this matter unless asked.

The photos of the stand aren't showing up but if it is the sides that are the main supports then I would suggest something that supports the sides and isn't set further in from the edges, as I say it's very hard to see without the pictures!

Solid floor below allowing the ability to use this kind of foot I think is the best solution to systems where the sides need supporting and still enable adjustment, I'm unsure if it's the solution for you looking at the photo I can see.


----------



## Epiphyte (15 Feb 2021)

Strange, no idea why the photos didn't appear @Andrew Butler, but try again


----------



## mort (15 Feb 2021)

Andrew Butler said:


> Did you mean to say this close? (300mm)



Hi Andrew,  no it was meant to say 2 foot apart, so good catch. Teach me not to read what i'd written before posting.


----------



## Andrew Butler (15 Feb 2021)

@Epiphyte - that's an ADA cabinet? I never knew they looked of such an awful build quality, I could be wrong as this opinion is only from a few photos and is mainly surrounding the base intersection with the uprights.
Where you have the feet sat are not in their optimal position to carry the load in a way in which the cabinet has been designed. Looking at those photos the cabinet base is designed that it be sat on a completely flat surface and supported all over.
If I had access to an electric planer I would get 3 strips of wood, scribe them fit them to the floor, seal them and then attach them to the underside of the cabinet.
The 2 outside pieces being most important here.
Do remember that the flooring you have below can deflect in different ways when put under pressure so what might look a snug fit with no rocking could change when put under pressure, especially with feet and as you put it originally incredibly uneven floors.


----------



## Epiphyte (15 Feb 2021)

Andrew Butler said:


> @Epiphyte - that's an ADA cabinet? I never knew they looked of such an awful build quality, I could be wrong as this opinion is only from a few photos and is mainly surrounding the base intersection with the uprights.
> Where you have the feet sat are not in their optimal position to carry the load in a way in which the cabinet has been designed. Looking at those photos the cabinet base is designed that it be sat on a completely flat surface and supported all over.
> If I had access to an electric planer I would get 3 strips of wood, scribe them fit them to the floor, seal them and then attach them to the underside of the cabinet.
> The 2 outside pieces being most important here.
> Do remember that the flooring you have below can deflect in different ways when put under pressure so what might look a snug fit with no rocking could change when put under pressure, especially with feet and as you put it originally incredibly uneven floors.


It sure is an APA cabinet! Albeit a used one with foam lining the inside which was added by the previous owner for sound deadening. Outside is immaculate, it is rock solid and considering its probably made of some form of chip board it feels very premium. I am not a fan of the base to upright joints either but that's what they all have according to the ADA website. I assume it's more than strong enough but it does look rather odd!

I do have a plane but it's my least favourite tool to use if I'm honest so I'm trying to avoid it. Would you just run them along the three front to back wood sections? I have no idea how id plane a piece to fit evenly from 0-6.2mm and another to go from 6.2mm to 10mm!


----------



## Andrew Butler (15 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> I do have a plane but it's my least favourite tool to use if I'm honest so I'm trying to avoid it.


I'd say its likely your best option but remember what I said about the floor covering you have over the floorboards and possible pockets you can't see.
I wouldn't want to leave the piece of wood you attach any thinner than 20mm at it's absolute smallest, this should make it easier to plane and also lose some of the appearance of deviation also.
The 2 sides I think are most important as looking it would seem these hold the main weight of the aquarium, the middle section looks to be more supporting the weight of whatever's in the cabinet. 
You could make a whole framework to overlay if that's easy enough for you and just paint it.

Just me thinking aloud about how to solve the problem you are explaining in the easiest yet most efficient way possible, there's more options but one to think about.


----------

