# What water testing equipment do you recommend?



## Wulfen (25 Jul 2018)

Hello all.
When I kept tanks in the past I used to test with well know brand kits. They seemed to vary on readings depending on what brand I used.
Now that I'm coming close to ordering my new system I have been thinking about what I will need to test for.
This time around I would like my tests to be more accurate.
What parameters do I need to test for?
I have seen Digital PH meters on Amazon ranging from £10 to £50.
What other water parameters can be tested using digital meters?
Will I still need liquid testers for certain tests and if so, what do I need?
System:
Evolution Aqua The Aquascaper 900 Tank 
Twinstar LED Aquarium Light 900S
Oase biomaster thermo 600 aquarium external-filter
Aquarium CO2 Kit Pro-SE Complete System
Tropica Aquarium Soil 
Unipac Kivu Fine Sand 
Cheers


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## Zeus. (25 Jul 2018)

What about Test Kits ? 

If injecting CO2 then a drop checker OFC a pH meter is optional but very useful cheap ones OK but better ones better OFC I use a hanna HI-98129 - PH Meter / Tester, 0pH to 14pH, 0.01, 0.05, 0 °C, 60 °C which came highly recomended by Clive and Darrel. But cheap pH pen better than none for doing pH profile


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

Zeus. said:


> What about Test Kits ?
> 
> If injecting CO2 then a drop checker OFC a pH meter is optional but very useful cheap ones OK but better ones better OFC I use a hanna HI-98129 - PH Meter / Tester, 0pH to 14pH, 0.01, 0.05, 0 °C, 60 °C which came highly recomended by Clive and Darrel. But cheap pH pen better than none for doing pH profile


Many thanks.
Ill have a good read of the article, Is it assuming you are mixing your own ferts?
What are EC and TDS, the other parameters on the ph meter?
Cheers


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## rebel (26 Jul 2018)

Suggest a tds meter and a pH meter. 

I think the cheap ones are ok. Invest in a very good CO2 system  and a very easy system for water changing.


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## Edvet (26 Jul 2018)

Ec: electrronic conductivity 
tds: total disolved salts
both are measured through the same meter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDS_meter


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## zozo (26 Jul 2018)

Wulfen said:


> What are EC and TDS



As Edvet says, both are actualy the same the value of Electric Conductivity relates to the number of Total Disolved Solids, both numbers can be converted back and forth.
It depends on your maintenance regime and schedule if it can be usefull to you or not.. You can measure the EC starting value of fresh tank water, adding salts and evaporation and topping off again will increase TDS, this also increases electrical conductivity. Higher EC is more TDS and visa versa.. This number can give you an indication that it is time for a water chance. Handy for low energy setups and saving on water chnages..

But if you do co2 and a weekly water change anyway or no co2 and a weekly waterchange regardles the EC and you follow a strickt fertilisation regime, than this device will not be of much help..  You will measure the same values every week over again, than why should you.. Than the device ends up in the draw never to come out again.

So its a choice to make and to think about before you invest in an EC meter.


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## ian_m (26 Jul 2018)

Wulfen said:


> Will I still need liquid testers for certain tests and if so, what do I need?



Summarising  hobby grade test kits in pictures...




If you insist on having test kits, then ones linked below will give far more dependable, reliable and repeatable readings...Some people have bought these because they hate having unknown knowns.

Ammonia
https://uk.hach.com/test-kit-nitrogen-ammonia-model-ni-sa/product?id=26427820075&callback=pf
Nitrite
https://uk.hach.com/nitrogen-nitrite-colour-disc-test-kit-model-ni-6/product?id=25114237061&callback=pf
Nitrate
https://uk.hach.com/nitrate-test-kit-model-ni-11/product?id=26427780260&callback=pf
Phosphate
https://uk.hach.com/test-kit-phosph...del-po-19a/product?id=25114225337&callback=pf

So now you have accurate water parameters....now what, what are you going to do with the results ?????
Great NO3 is 10ppm, then what ????

This is why the Estimative Index (EI) was "invented", so that there is no need to test the water. If you dose 10ppm NO3, you know NO3 is at least 10ppm, thus plants will not run short of NO3.

As pointed out above pH, read by a pH meter, during CO2 injection is useful to get an estimate of CO2 levels. A drop of 1pH equates to roughly 30ppm.

Also TDS maybe useful to indicate how the tank water is changing.

I have neither pH pen or TDS meter, but have monsterously growing algae free plants along with happy fish, due to careful CO2 & light control and weekly water changes.


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## Edvet (26 Jul 2018)

Wulfen i see you ask a lot of questions. That's good.
Just a slight warning, buying all the most suitesd stuff will give you a good chance, but it's NO guarantee. Be prepared to learn  and adjust. Each tank has it's own quirks. It can go smooth, but also often there is a struggle.


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## alto (26 Jul 2018)

Nitrate ... ready who cares 
I like to know if my tap water contains nitrate - online search or email will elicit that information: note water tests are performed at multiple points through a water delivery system & often daily ... the annual report will include an average value, as well as highs  & lows - you can even request each data point 
Useful information  - if my tank nitrate is 160ppm & my tap is 20ppm, maybe I should feed less  or pay more attention to the substrate when doing my water changes ...

Ammonia
Nitrite
- both rather more relevant re toxicity to fish & shrimps

Should you need to medicate, virtually all medications affect the biofilter to some degree, many meds sequester oxygen (which again impacts both biofilter & livestock) 
Substrates can release ammonia (& nitrites) - not just ADA Amazonia etc - but any “old” (or not so old) substrate that is disturbed has the potential to release not-so-compatible-with-aquatic-life compounds 

When your fish suddenly (or not so suddenly) appear _under the weather_, it’s reassuring to have a test kit at hand to confirm zero ammonia & nitrites 
It’s also useful to check pH - it should not be far off tap (if consistent water changes etc) & can provide information re ammonia toxicity 

Seachem test kits are (generally) lower cost than Hach - and much more available , tech support is excellent, kits decent & often include reference standards 

Starting out it’s comforting to have some test kits at hand, if you buy fish & they die unexpectedly, the first request from most shops, will be about water parameters  

I’m  what EI has to do with test kits 

I have erratic CO2 & light control & minimal algae (an algae “free” zone is an oxymoron, rather like the  ) ...if I actually remember to turn the lights & CO2 ON - *daily!* - grow is rather surprising 

Watch a Filipe Oliveira workshop video (eg Aquarium Gardens) - he’s a joy - no “do it this way” 
Rather this is _how I like to do this, & there are many ways ..._


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## Zeus. (26 Jul 2018)

I have two EC/TDS meters and dont bother using them just stick to weekly WC and accept the values what ever they happen to be. The Hanna pH pen does TDS up to 2000ppm just have to change the mode to read it. The more expensive Hanna prode does the TDS above 2000ppm but nearly double the price.
Hanna probe does temp also which is handy


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

Edvet said:


> Wulfen i see you ask a lot of questions. That's good.
> Just a slight warning, buying all the most suitesd stuff will give you a good chance, but it's NO guarantee. Be prepared to learn  and adjust. Each tank has it's own quirks. It can go smooth, but also often there is a struggle.


Cheers Edvet. I do ask a lot of questions in an effort to learn as much as I possibly can "Before" I even get the tank.
I have kept tanks (not planted) years ago and don't want to repeat any mistakes I may have made at that time through stagnant memories, but replace those memories with current thinking from my peers.
I am under no illusion that this learning process is just beginning and will involve a lot of research and work. But saying that, a joy such as the planted tank is well worth it


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

ian_m said:


> Summarising  hobby grade test kits in pictures...
> View attachment 116799
> 
> If you insist on having test kits, then ones linked below will give far more dependable, reliable and repeatable readings...Some people have bought these because they hate having unknown knowns.
> ...


Cheers Ian. I would rather test with digital meters all the things I need to be testing. To tell you the truth I am still getting my head around all the information I am trying to absorb 
Is this the EI product I have hered metion so much? http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

alto said:


> Nitrate ... ready who cares
> I like to know if my tap water contains nitrate - online search or email will elicit that information: note water tests are performed at multiple points through a water delivery system & often daily ... the annual report will include an average value, as well as highs  & lows - you can even request each data point
> Useful information  - if my tank nitrate is 160ppm & my tap is 20ppm, maybe I should feed less  or pay more attention to the substrate when doing my water changes ...
> 
> ...


Many thanks Alto. This is where im getting confused. Fish/inverts produce waste. This waste breaks down into Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia. Of which Ammonia and Nitrite are dangerous to fish?
If I go with this EI method which I think I will and large water changes (to minimize the buildup of Ammonia and Nitrite?) Should I really still ignore these two readings from then on?
What if something unknown to me is producing a lot of Nitrite and ammonia?


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

Zeus. said:


> I have two EC/TDS meters and dont bother using them just stick to weekly WC and accept the values what ever they happen to be. The Hanna pH pen does TDS up to 2000ppm just have to change the mode to read it. The more expensive Hanna prode does the TDS above 2000ppm but nearly double the price.
> Hanna probe does temp also which is handy


So just the PH meter would be the way to go?
What about hardness? I have heard that mentioned a few times, can this be measured with a digital meter?


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## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

A bit belated but may help if I paste the details of my upcoming system:
Evolution Aqua The Aquascaper 900 tank
Twinstar LED Aquarium Light 900S
Oase biomaster thermo 600 aquarium external-filter
Aquarium CO2 Kit Pro-SE Complete System
Tropica Aquarium Soil 
Unipac Kivu Fine Sand


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## ian_m (26 Jul 2018)

The fish waste (and dead fish) releases ammonia into the water. This is toxic to fish, but can be used by plants (and more worryingly by algae) as well as converted to nitrite by bacteria in filter/substrate. Nitrite is toxic to fish.

The nitrite gets converted to nitrate by bacteria. Nitrate is not really toxic, until you get to 1000's ppm. Nitrate is prime fertiliser for plants.

Normally in a balanced mature tank any ammonia is quickly converted to harmless nitrate and you will not really see measurable ammonia and nitrite levels.

Thus if your tank is low light, rotting food and fish poo will provide plenty enough nitrate (and carbon) for you plants.


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## Edvet (27 Jul 2018)

hardness is "german hardness"another scale for the amount of dissolved salts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water


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## alto (28 Jul 2018)

ian_m said:


> Nitrate is not really toxic, until you get to 1000's ppm.


If you can keep _Sphaerichthys species_ alive & healthy in even 100ppm nitrate I want to see that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not to mention _Xenotilapia_ sp. "Papilio” variants


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## Onoma1 (14 Aug 2018)

Could I check that I have understood this correctly? The most accurate way of measuring Ph would be to use the Hanna pH Probe HI-98129. Given this comes in at 89 pounds or more is there a cheaper (but still accurate) alternative that you use or would recommend?


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## Wulfen (14 Aug 2018)

Onoma1 said:


> Could I check that I have understood this correctly? The most accurate way of measuring Ph would be to use the Hanna pH Probe HI-98129. Given this comes in at 89 pounds or more is there a cheaper (but still accurate) alternative that you use or would recommend?


Hi Onoma.
I personally am still trying to get my head around the "to test or not to test" method.
You may find this video interesting in terms of other methods to test PH though he does not use a digital probe.


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## Zeus. (14 Aug 2018)

Onoma1 said:


> Could I check that I have understood this correctly? The most accurate way of measuring Ph would be to use the Hanna pH Probe HI-98129. Given this comes in at 89 pounds or more is there a cheaper (but still accurate) alternative that you use or would recommend?



Well I was using a cheapo one from Amazon for some time cost about £15 which was OK. As to which is most accurate was there are easily better pH probes but how much do you wish to pay. Its about balance and how long will it last and ease of use etc 



Wulfen said:


> methods to test PH though he does not use a digital probe.



Yep you can mess with solutions to get a colour change and estimate the pH which takes time or read it instantly! your call


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## alto (14 Aug 2018)

Test Strip technology is quite advanced (widely used in clinical applications, any “unusual” results lead to additional testing, eg, liquidity technology/ alternate methodology) 

At the hobby level, some branded products are decent, some are extraordinarily awful ... in contrast, very few test kits I checked yielded utter nonsense 

I’ve found both Tetra & API multitest strips to be decent, Tetra ammonia performed well 
I prefer Tetra but can’t source them locally anymore & shipping makes them too expensive (API will do )

I use them to confirm nothing much has changed, tap & tank are similar, there’s nothing untoward if fish are looking not quite right ... think I may’ve used 2 strips in the last 6months 

I keep intending to replace my (lost?) pH/TDS pen but prefer Hanna Inst over what local shops are presently flogging

Mostly I just do another water change


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## Siege (14 Aug 2018)

I’ve got loads of test kits that I have bought in past. Best advice I found Is don’t use them!

If you want to know the ph and hardness etc then look at the waterboards website for a full breakdown for your postcode.

If you plant heavily, you’ll have no issues as the plants will do all the work and will result in healthy fish.

A ph pen is handy if you want to do a full ph profile. Like others have said you can test for ammonia and nitrite if you have an issue. But set up a nice heavily planted tank and don’t stick a million fish in the tank in one go and no issues 

Go to your retailer with a picture of the hardscape and they’ll discuss a planting plan for you, I think thats what would have helped others on the forum who are currently having issues with newly set up tanks.


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## alto (14 Aug 2018)

Zeus. said:


> Yep you can mess with solutions to get a colour change and estimate the pH which takes time or read it instantly! your call



I’ve never seen a pH test kit go “off” as badly - or frequently - as pH probes (no idea what happens as it’s always _Nobody_ that last used the pH meter)  .... 
though I was using pH probes daily for years so not really an accurate comparison (back when I was monitoring my tanks, weekly was the most frequent & only for 2-3 years)

A friend used (a rather expensive) pH system to constantly monitor aquarium CO2 etc, finally gave up after I confirmed probe #5 was no longer working properly 

My view of these low cost pH pens is 
pH 7 or 7.5 or 6.5 ... likely numbers
pH 7.1 7.0 6.9 6.8 7.0 7.2 ... it’s likely somewhere in there 

Before any pH probe use, check pH standards (eg, 4.0, 7.0) AND confirm the midrange standard (5.6) is also reading accurately and precisely - then you know the sensor is working as expected 

Single point calibration, electronic calibration ... dead simple to use ... dead simple to be completely off and the user will never know


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## alto (14 Aug 2018)

Siege said:


> If you want to know the ph and hardness etc then look at the waterboards website for a full breakdown for your postcode.


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## Zeus. (14 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> Test Strip technology is quite advanced



Forgot about them Like you said its just getting a decent brand. I don't treat the pH reading as accurate just as a guide with reference to the DC colour change and to how stable the pH reading is once the lights are on, but both my pH pens are two point calibration, check the pH pen in 7.0pH and 4.0pH  buffer to check their working within acceptable limits, a pH pan is easy and fast and the Hanna probe doesn't seem to need calibrating that often IME. Once your happy with the CO2 injection it only need checking every so often or when changes to the light or tank are done. Increased my lights quite a bit once and didnt do a pH profile and the pH was increasing with the increased CO2 uptake of the plants with the increased light intensity! obvious when you think about it


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## alto (14 Aug 2018)

Zeus. said:


> the Hanna probe doesn't seem to need calibrating that often IME


It shouldn’t, the standards should usually just confirm that the sensing membrane (& internal reference solution) is working as expected


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## Wulfen (14 Aug 2018)

I think for myself personally I am still partly programmed with the testing is essential gene.
This is due to my lack of experience with planted tanks, and the biological process of the plants helping to break down Ammonia and Nitrate.
I am however slowly coming round to the "test if you like but it's not essential (as long as you maintain good tank cleanliness, regular water changes, regular fert dosing) mindset."
I think time and experience is really the only way to find your own comfort level.
Now that my new setup has arrived (just waiting on the stand) one thing keeps nagging at my mind.
When I start adding fish to the system (once the tank is mature) I still feel I want to monitor ammonia and nitrate levels to get an indicator of the changes in water parameters as an aid to when to add new fish?


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## alto (15 Aug 2018)

I was already established in my lab life when fish tanks invaded so I spent the first years testing, testing, testing 

I was also paranoid about killing fish & providing optimum water quality & ...

I was also attracted to wild caught fish like altums  & chocolate gouramis 
 - which have such conflicting husbandry advice - I decided to go with LOTS of very clean water vs _these fish don’t like water changes_ - I mean, how could a wild fish prefer sitting in a toilet tank over a water change  

In the beginning, you lack the experience to judge fish health by appearance & behaviour, so water testing at least provides some information and you know you’re doing something and there’s nothing toxic in your tank (that you can test for anyway) 

BUT when you start with test kits, get comfortable with the technique, buying a kit with an reference standard is worth the extra £ initially as you can check your accuracy & precision 
Then go on to picking up those sale kits - especially while you’ve still your other kit to compare with

I’ve used Seachem’s Ammonia Alert on new systems or if I’m feeling paranoid (still get that feeling  ), also their pH Alert but this seems less useful as it doesn’t change much (in my tanks, pretty much always 6.0 - 6.4 ish)

Congratulations on your amazing tank system


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## alto (15 Aug 2018)

btw just rescaped my 90cm so feeling less jealous


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## Wulfen (15 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> I was already established in my lab life when fish tanks invaded so I spent the first years testing, testing, testing
> 
> I was also paranoid about killing fish & providing optimum water quality & ...
> 
> ...


Cheers alto.
Nice insight into your current thinking  
Looking forward to scapeing


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## dw1305 (15 Aug 2018)

Hi all,





Wulfen said:


> Many thanks Alto. This is where im getting confused. Fish/inverts produce waste. This waste breaks down into Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia. Of which Ammonia and Nitrite are dangerous to fish?
> If I go with this EI method which I think I will and large water changes (to minimize the buildup of Ammonia and Nitrite?) Should I really still ignore these two readings from then on? What if something unknown to me is producing a lot of Nitrite and ammonia?


The "something unknown" ammonia source is the reason for having lots of plants (and some  with the <"aerial advantage">) and <"highly oxygenated"> water, it means that you always have spare nitrification capacity.

Most forum discussion dramatically under-estimates the importance of plant/microbe biofiltration (and oxygen) in maintaining water quality.





Wulfen said:


> When I start adding fish to the system (once the tank is mature) I still feel I want to monitor ammonia and nitrate levels to get an indicator of the changes in water parameters as an aid to when to add new fish?


You can, there are some problems with the measurement of both parameters. In the lab. we use <"Ion Selective Electrodes">. 

Personally I don't regularly test the water in the fish tanks, I use a combination of a <"conductivity meter and the duckweed index">.

cheers Darrel


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## tiger15 (15 Aug 2018)

If you use pH pen to estimate co2, it can grossly under estimate co2 availability under misty condition.  Co2 is available to plants under dissolved (ionized)and free (mist) form, but pH pen measures only the ionized H+.  Liquid pH test kit can pick up free co2 by chemical reaction as you cap and shake the sample.  If you are not injecting co2, pH pen and test kit readings should be identical within visual color resolution.  When you inject co2, the undesolved co2 can be under estimated by pH pen by as much as 0.3 pint IME.


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