# H2O2 dip recipe



## oscarlloydjohn (9 May 2018)

Anyone have a recipe for a Hydrogen Peroxide/H2O2 dip? I want to kill some Cladophora that I got in on a Buce recently. There seems to be a lot of contrasting info out there!

Cheers


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## ceg4048 (10 May 2018)

Cladophora indicate a CO2 and nutrient related shortfall in the tank.
It is resolved by implementing a more robust dosing scheme as well as improving CO2/flow and distribution in the tank.
H2O2 dipping does a lot of damage to the plants. Best to remove the algae via mechanical means.

Cheers,


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## oscarlloydjohn (10 May 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> Cladophora indicate a CO2 and nutrient related shortfall in the tank.
> It is resolved by implementing a more robust dosing scheme as well as improving CO2/flow and distribution in the tank.
> H2O2 dipping does a lot of damage to the plants. Best to remove the algae via mechanical means.
> 
> Cheers,



The Clado came in the mail on a plant. I'm trying my best to prevent it from being introduced into the tank when I put the buce in. I have removed as much of it as possible by hand but of course some will still remain.


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## ceg4048 (10 May 2018)

OK, well if you use a small paint brush then you can use any strength of peroxide and paint the algae.
It's better to use something like Excel or other liquid carbon because at least that will aid the plant.
Algal spores are always being introduced into the tank. If the plants are healthy then the spores will not bloom.
That particular plant has suffered poor nutrition/poor CO2 so if you put it in a tank that has sufficient levels of nutrients/CO2 then it will recover.

Cheers,


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## Barbara Turner (10 May 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> OK, well if you use a small paint brush then you can use any strength of peroxide and paint the algae.
> It's better to use something like Excel or other liquid carbon because at least that will aid the plant.
> Algal spores are always being introduced into the tank. If the plants are healthy then the spores will not bloom.
> That particular plant has suffered poor nutrition/poor CO2 so if you put it in a tank that has sufficient levels of nutrients/CO2 then it will recover.



Could you dip the plants in excel, when moving them from algae ridden tank? what strength would you go for? After a water change they recommend 5 mL for every 40 L, I'm guessing if you went a lot stronger it might also give any snail eggs a hard time.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2018)

Excel Just straight out of the bottle neat Barbara. Either paint some on with a paint brush or put some in a small syringe a put a drop on the surface of the leaf. As long as it has a little contact time it will kill off the algae. Just be aware some plants are a bit sensitive to excel and it may burn the leaf, mosses in particular don't like it. Not sure about snail eggs, excel is an algaecide and as far as I know is safe for snails as people use it in tanks with snails in. Try some other kind of dip for snails prior to treating with excel I would say.


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## ceg4048 (10 May 2018)

Well, again, you could do so, but it really doesn't matter.
The algae that you fear is already in the destination tank. You will not be introducing any more algae by simply placing the plant directly into the tank.

People seem to think of algae as some kind of "infection", and they are under the illusion that a plant which has been infected with algae by virtue of it's having been in a tank suffering an algae bloom some how will carry that infection into the new tank.

Algae rule the planet. They reproduce by spores and the spores are everywhere. The spores have an infinite shelf life.
So in a way, algae are immortal.

The minute you set up a tank, algal spore are already attached to the inner walls. Spores are attached to your hands, so simply placing your hand in the water introduces spores to the tank.

Plants suffer algal blooms as a direct result of their being in poor health. Algae are predators and as soon as a plant weakens, the chimical signature of that weakening tell the spores that they can bloom. 

Poor health of a plant occurs as a direct result of poor nutrition or poor CO2.
Therefore if you move a plant from an unhealthy tank to a tank that is healthy, then that plant will recover and the plants that are already in the healthy tank will not be affected by the algae that you have introduced by the unhealthy plant - and the reason is that they are healthy and the algal spores realize that there is no point in blooming because the prey has escaped.

So all this hand wringing about this dip, or of that strength of dip is much ado about nothing. You cannot make a plant healthy or algae free simply by dipping. The plant must recover its health by being fed proper nutrition and by ensuring good CO2 if the tank is being enriched.
Simply removed all damaged leaves (because these leaves will never recover) and insert the plant in the new tank. 

As far as snail eggs, follow whatever recommended dip for those and carry on.
If Excel dip works, it won't be because it killed algae. It will work because it will have boosted the CO2 availability.

Cheers,


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2018)

I was thinking more of salvaging a plant that has a fair amount of established algae on it. Even with good conditions in the new tank any established algae on leaves is never going away on its own without some kind of intervention from LC or similar. Obviously yes, if you can trim off affected leaves and still end up with something worth planting that would be the way to go but if chopping everything off bar the root system was the only option chopping off the worst affected and treating the least could be an option especially combined with shrimp who appear to love pinking algae as it dies. At least that gives you some leaf surface area for light to hit in the tank and hopefully promote a quicker recovery and new growth. Once that appears those slightly affected leaves could be trimmed off to make way for the new.


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## oscarlloydjohn (10 May 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> Well, again, you could do so, but it really doesn't matter.
> The algae that you fear is already in the destination tank. You will not be introducing any more algae by simply placing the plant directly into the tank.
> 
> People seem to think of algae as some kind of "infection", and they are under the illusion that a plant which has been infected with algae by virtue of it's having been in a tank suffering an algae bloom some how will carry that infection into the new tank.
> ...



I was under the impression that Cladophora had to be physically introduced into the tank to cause an outbreak. If that's not the case then idk what all this fuss is about!


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## alto (10 May 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> If Excel dip works, it won't be because it killed algae. It will work because it will have boosted the CO2 availability.


If you paint Excel or Peroxide neat on wood, stone (or Anubias leaves) with algae, you can observe the algae discolouring & dropping off
If just increased CO2 did the same, just exposing the algae to air should have the same effect  


It's really your position that the algae spore load in a tank with no visible algae (or minimal visible algae) is the same level as in a tank with vast amounts of visible algae?


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## ceg4048 (11 May 2018)

alto said:


> It's really your position that the algae spore load in a tank with no visible algae (or minimal visible algae) is the same level as in a tank with vast amounts of visible algae?


Yes, spores bloom and immediately produce more spores, so it's entirely possible that there are actually MORE spores in a tank with visible blooms.
If there were not already a lot of spores existing and being multiplied how else would the bloom be so virulent?



alto said:


> If you paint Excel or Peroxide neat on wood, stone (or Anubias leaves) with algae, you can observe the algae discolouring & dropping off
> If just increased CO2 did the same, just exposing the algae to air should have the same effect


Because the number of spores in the tank is vast compared to the amount that you kill on the leaf with peroxide the effect is insignificant. As soon as you place the plant back into the tank more spores will attach to the leaves and will later bloom.

The key to the recovery of a tank or of an individual plant from an algal bloom is to return that plant or the tank as a whole to health. In the case where hair algae is present, this is caused by poor CO2, so remedial CO2 is called for. Dipping never solves the problem. It is only a temporary solution.

Cheers,


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## ceg4048 (11 May 2018)

oscarlloydjohn said:


> I was under the impression that Cladophora had to be physically introduced into the tank to cause an outbreak. If that's not the case then idk what all this fuss is about!


No, all types of spores eventually find their way into the tank and bloom as the opportunity presents itself.
As I mentioned, if the plants are healthy the spores just sit and wait.
 Yes, you are right, there is much fuss made. It's much more important to have the tank healthy than to dip.

Instead of focusing on killing algae we should instead focus on plant health.

Cheers,


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 May 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> As soon as you place the plant back into the tank more spores will attach to the leaves and will later bloom.



Some crossed wires here, understandable that there's little point taking plants out of a tank to dip them and putting them back in without resolving the cause but Barbara said..



Barbara Turner said:


> Could you dip the plants in excel, when moving them from algae ridden tank?



So I guess there's no harm in the dip method when moving to a new setup so the algae get a bad time right from the off. Obviously if the new tank isn't set up right it's back to square one. If they're staying in the same tank it would be best to treat them there so the LC is in the column of the spot dosed plants giving the spores a bad time there as well.


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