# Endler x Guppy hybrid experiment



## Marcxw (14 Oct 2015)

Original Pair
Red female guppy x male black bar endler


Gen 1 hybrid lone female survivor


Gen 1 hybrid female x male tiger endler

Gen 2 hybrid fry (DOB 12/10/15)


Hopefully will be able keep more of these little critters alive this time. Can't wait to see what the males will end up looking like.


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## Tim Harrison (14 Oct 2015)

Interesting...I suppose all this is only possible because they breed so readily...that is the males will get their wicked way whether the females are receptive or not


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## Marcxw (14 Oct 2015)

I'm really surprised that the Gen 1 hybrid female doesn't have a trace or red on her seeing that both parents had plenty of red colouring. Not sure where the black markings on the tail came from...must be some hidden snakeskin gene inherited from the guppy. A bit bummed no males survived from the first crossing.


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## Mick.Dk (14 Oct 2015)

Consider this fun and "try and error"......
If you really want to understand the genetics of it.......you are in for some SERIOUS reading up on Mendell's laws, dominant-  and recessive genes, allel genes etc. etc.
I bred colour-variations of angelfish years ago - also creating new colours - and to be honest, I never got completely sure of several strains. I would suspect, that Guppy strains have way more genetic confusion, than the angelfish.
- it's defenitely fun, though, just to *mess around" and see what happens


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## Tim Harrison (15 Oct 2015)

Mick.Dk said:


> Consider this fun and "try and error"......
> If you really want to understand the genetics of it.......you are in for some SERIOUS reading up on Mendell's laws, dominant-  and recessive genes, allel genes etc. etc.
> I bred colour-variations of angelfish years ago - also creating new colours - and to be honest, I never got completely sure of several strains. I would suspect, that Guppy strains have way more genetic confusion, than the angelfish.
> - it's defenitely fun, though, just to *mess around" and see what happens


Haha...good luck with that particular genetic maze
I think Forrest Gump has already summed it up for you...'Life is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gona get.'
Mick is right though it does look like a whole heap of fun, especially not knowing what you're gona end up with.
I'm already looking forward to more updates


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## sciencefiction (15 Oct 2015)

I picked up a female guppy once that was housed with endlers in the shop.
She soon produced 4 fry that survived the hunt as I wasn't breeding them really. There were 3 males and 1 female. The males were small like endlers size and almost endler looking but even nicer colour. They developed really fast and by the 4th week were fully coloured. This was in comparison with the other non-crossed male guppy fry who took 3-4 months at least.  The female looked exactly like her mother(golden guppy) but was a smaller version of guppy size wise, still way bigger than the males.  She lived for 4+ years. Around the 3rd year she grew a bit bigger and got even more colourful. At that time her tail got a tint of sky blue in it.   She died only a couple of months ago. She was a tough fish.

Good luck with your experiments. I am looking forward to pictures.

Here is a very old picture I dug out showing 2 of my guppy/endler cross males. They were extremely nice. The picture doesn't give them justice. Sorry about the quality but I was never any good at pictures and these fish tend to swim fast so I never took a nice pic.





And this is a stunning female guppy I had. Her tail was huge, like that of some male guppies.


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## alto (15 Oct 2015)

I suspect there is considerable guppy x endler hybrids in the new commercial "strains" as well - I recently picked up a group of "orange guppy males" (I always wonder where all the females go, commercial lists offer endless arrays of male guppy/endler lots) ... they were quite young so might've been pure "guppy" but really haven't grown much over the last several weeks, colors are stunning, they stay in a pretty tight shoal.

Mick is right about guppy strain confusions 
(there's a reason why outstanding trios sell for $$$$)


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## pondweed (25 Oct 2015)

I set my tank up originally for four blonde female endlers, and two black bar endler males, and ended up with endless fish... But it was abundantly clear, at least on the mothers' side, that the fish were hybrids. They did produce some really pretty offspring though:





(Please excuse the gross java fern.)

In _The Greatest Show on Earth_, Dawkins talks about John Endlers experiments with wild Trinidadian guppies, and how their patterns changed over the generations according to sexual selection and predatory selection pressures, against different gravel backgrounds. It's an interesting summary. If I had the time and inclination to do a lot of searching, it'd be great to read the actual papers.

I wound down my guppy population — I think a lot of the fry went from Brighton MA to the Sea Life Centre, free to guppy away however they please! (Although with unlimited funds and a huge tank I'd be tempted to track down some blue star endlers! Little gems.)


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## Mick.Dk (26 Oct 2015)

While working in a zoo, years ago, I had some (supposedly) "true, wild guppies" released into some huge ponds. It really took less than a year, though, to detect noticeable changes in body-size, colours and shape of fins on primarily the males........simply because of too little predation on the population.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Oct 2015)

Either way amazing phenotypic plasticity and still a pretty rapid response...


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