# NA 120cm - Asian Dreams-IAPLC # 251



## Iain Sutherland

Edit* some specs 

Natural Aquario 120 x 45 x 55 superclear glass
Natural Aquario Cabinet in matt grey
Natural Aquario Light Arm
Natural Aquario Stainless Steel inlet and outlets
3 TMC Aquaray 1000nd led tiles on MMS rail and hanging kit
TMC Aquaray 8 way controller
Eheim 2080 
Tetratec ex1501 greenline
Hydor 300w inline heater
AM1000 co2 reactor (on 2 hours prior to lights)
Dennerle profi 1000 regulator
German manifold and needle valves

In the tank:
Natural Aquario Silver Series Bottom soil x 2
Natural Aquario Silver Series Top soil x 3
ADA La Plata Sand mixed with Natural Aquario River sand
Bogwood and Manzanita
Black Lava Rock

Plants List:
Taxiphyllum barbieri
Blyxa Aubertii
Blyxa Japonica
Cryptocoryne Retrospiralis
Bolbitus Heudelotii
Hygrophillia pinnatifida
Bucephalandra Melawi

Currently using Vimi ferts, just micros at 40ml a day during start up then alternate days Micro and All in One

Fauna:
80 Caridina Multidentata (amano shrimp)
will update as stocking progresses

Hey folks, managed to make some progress today so thought id fire up the journal. Apologies for the long opening post ......
So after seeing the NA set ups at Aquatics Live i was thinking about a 90 but decided against it thinking that i should stop buying new tanks and do a few more scapes in the one i have, yet due to Ed's silvery tongue Ive ended up with a new AquaRio 120cm NA setup minus lights.

Im so glad i did as a few weeks ago it arrived as promised.
First up was the cabinet, the packaging was all very robust and looked in tact, so it was all about checking out the build quality and functionality. NA have said that they have been working hard on 'improved quality' so i was pretty keen to see what it was all about.

Looking straight at the cabinet it was clear the build was good, the doors line up nicely and joints are as good as invisible. A two finger press on the tops of the doors and they swing open smoothly almost fully. To my delight there is no middle brace, i was sure there would be something given its 120 long but no, just loads of space to play with and no obstacles to bend pipes round and/or make me 'hulk out' during maintenance.










As far as slots and holes for pipe work and cables go i was originally a little concerned but Ed told me that they had addressed this already and they sure have. No chance you will need to get out the hole saw, which would be criminal anyway! With 2 long slots at the front on each end, 1 hole in the middle, 2 box cut holes at the rear of each side and 2 holes in the back 2 bottom corners you have a cornucopia of choices. Some may say overkill but i like the choice.





So here was my first minor niggle... The round holes cut on the back will most likely be used to feed power leads into the cabinet and in the UK we have big plugs... so big they don’t fit through. Ive spoken to NA and they have said that they will look to increase the size a little. I just removed the plug on the extension lead.
Next out of the box was the steel pipes, what can i say? They look uber cool, fit the system perfectly and no more breakages! The real test will be once running of course, having a 2080 fire out of one small outlet (no cone like a lily) could be an issue but time will tell.... heres hoping.





The inlets have 8 large vertical slots cut into them to let water in opposed to the usual small horizontal layout, i can see this working well and im hoping that with such large area to draw water in that the suction wont be so bad as to turn them into shrimp killers as some glass inlets can. As long as they all work i cant see that ill go back to breaking glass pipes anytime soon... also has the added bonus that if a pipe happens to pop off like i had before it will only drain about an inch or two before stopping 





So onto the light arm... as i have a 90cm NA light arm currently it was interesting to see that they have reduced the profile significantly from 2.5cm to 1cm with the top beam being solid stainless.





This assembles very easily as the cabinet has all the holes predrilled with threaded insets, an allen key later (would have be extra nice if this was included as i have no tools!) and its up.





The second niggle.... as im using the MMS rail suspension kit i need holes in that solid piece of steel across the top to hang them. So of i went to see my maintenance manager at work and got him drilling some holes for me, 10 minutes and 2 drill bits later...good as gold. I would also suggest to NA that they may wish to consider pre drilling the holes as a future feature, no doubt they aren’t needed with their own light system but many would appreciate it and if they aren’t used it does nothing to the aesthetic.

So finally the glass.... upon opening the box the first thing i notice is that the lids have been included? I thought Ed had said these were an additional cost but in the box they are along with 2 packs of funny looking clips that took me a while to figure out that they were for the lid.... at least one pack is, the second pack im still trying to figure out what they are for 
As standard the tank comes with the foam matt needed for the top of the cabinet, little bits like that make me smile  So with the help of the housemate we lifted the tank up to have a look. The clarity of the glass is very impressive, aside from the edges you simply cant see it as it has almost no colour at all. The quality of the build was good with all sides matching up evenly and next to no silicone to be seen. There are a couple of teeny 1mm marks from manufacturing but without looking with your nose touching the glass you cant see them empty so will vanish entirely once wet.





Overall im very impressed, the whole lot looks very well built, well thought out, sturdy and clean. Having not owned an ADA system i cant really compare but i find it hard to quantify where any real improvement, as far a build goes, where it could be much better... possibly a couple of tiny patches where the silicone is only 95% but nothing to justify the price difference that i can think of.

So having had it sat in the lounge for far to long while i sort hardscape etc i thought id busy myself putting the gear all together.
Having had a few fair few tanks in a relatively short space of time i was adamant this is the last... for now! But i wanted to set it all up right from the start to make maintenance easy, look tidy and make taking pictures stress free (enough of that trying to figure out the camera!)
Filtration
Eheim 2080.... as all pipework is concealed inside the cabinet i was happy to use the standard Eheim green tubing as i still think its one of the best for performance. Running on one inlet is the Hydor 300w which ive yet to plumb in as its on the old tank. Ill be making sure to fix it to the cabinet with 22mm plumbing clips as a lot of you no doubt know the connection on the hydor’s doesn’t instill much confidence so doing so should mean ill sleep ok at night. Filter media will be alfagrog, some old eheim media mix from my mature filter, 250ml purigen every 3 months and possibly carbon with floss depending on how it all works out.
CO2 injection
Once the second inlet was attached i plumbed in the AM1000, now i know that these reactors always get mixed reviews but thought id give it a go without any media... well ill have to anyway as once i got it out (bought a few months back) i realised it has been sealed shut by the previous owner which i didn’t know or i wouldn’t have bought it, as long as it doesn’t leak and doesn’t need media then i can live with it.

CO2 installation
Next was the co2, pretty straight forward, the tank still sits outside the cabinet as i cant get any smaller ones free from work and am still running the dennerle profi2000 reg. I also treated myself to a new manifold from Germany CO2 Verteiler 2 fach Aquaristik
which can run two tanks, the needle valve certainly feels really smooth and is 4 full rotations from open to closed which should provide good control.

Lights and power
First off, light in the cabinet! I have meant to do this so many times but never got round to it, so this time in went a T5 cabinet light fixed to the top that i have added a cabinet auto switch to just to be swish.




As TMC have bought out the 1500 tile there are some great deals out there for the older 1000’s so opted for 3 tiles on the MMS rail with suspension kit. I cant express how nice it is to be able to move the lights up and down with such little effort, the only slight draw back i can see is that when i want to raise the lights for maintenance etc that when one end goes up first the tiles slide about and could fall off. Currently looking for a solution to this if you have an idea im all ears.
I then fitted the Aquaray 8 way controller programmed for 30 min ramp up 5 hours on 60% then 60mins ramp down until i figure this set up out.





Backlighting experiment- to follow

If youve made it this far then thanks, i hope to get it wet in the next 3 weeks once all the other bits arrive.
As always all comments, critisism’s and suggestions welcome.


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## NanoJames

I'm looking forward to this.  Have you got any idea of hardscape, substrate livestock etc? Looks like a really nice tank!
Cheers


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## tim

Looks like a very good quality set up the na stuff, as an avid follower/ admirer of your last scape will be following this one Iain look forward to seeing this progress.


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## Ian Holdich

Love it mate, very impressive set up. Looks the biz. 

Any plans on style of scape yet?


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## Iain Sutherland

Hey guys, it is an impressive set up that NA have built just hope i can do it justice.

Got a style in mind but waiting on a delivery from Tom Barr for a load of wood which will dictate how it all comes together.  All i can be sure of at the moment is that it it will be 85% Asian flora and fauna.... just love barbs too much, so currently searching for some less common varieties i like.Its a big space to fill so think perspective will be quite important and as i dont have the natural eye for building a scape off the cuff im in no rush.  No doubt ill be asking for hardscape opinions along the way.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Nice Iain! Very very nice.

I don't know if I'm being cheeky here , but I imagine people will be wondering how much you splashed out on all this approximately? 

It does indeed look like top notch hardware, sleek. I'm also surprised that there is no middle support, makes for such a nice space below.
Thanks for your in depth description of your findings, Im looking forward to this one 

Cheers,


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## Ian Holdich

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hey guys, it is an impressive set up that NA have built just hope i can do it justice.
> 
> Got a style in mind but waiting on a delivery from Tom Barr for a load of wood which will dictate how it all comes together.  All i can be sure of at the moment is that it it will be 85% Asian flora and fauna.... just love barbs too much, so currently searching for some less common varieties i like.Its a big space to fill so think perspective will be quite important and as i dont have the natural eye for building a scape off the cuff im in no rush.  No doubt ill be asking for hardscape opinions along the way.



Sounds great mate...btw saw some sawbwa barbs the other day! You have to get some!


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## tim

You'll be happy with the manzi from Tom mate I got two boxes last year but haven't had the balls to use and do it justice yet  your fish selection in your last tank got me hooked love barbs but have only got round to keeping cherries set up sounds the dogs danglies, will you be using maple leaf rock in this as well ?


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## Iain Sutherland

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Nice Iain! Very very nice.
> 
> 
> I don't know if I'm being cheeky here , but I imagine people will be wondering how much you splashed out on all this approximately?
> Cheers,


 
Alright Nath, you'd have to get a price from Ed for the NA stuff mate, but to say there is a dent in my wallet setting this all up would be something of an understatement.



Ian Holdich said:


> Sounds great mate...btw saw some sawbwa barbs the other day! You have to get some!


They are great looking fish and wanted to keep them for a while now, just a little to colourful for what i want from the schoolers in this one. Next scape 



tim said:


> You'll be happy with the manzi from Tom mate I got two boxes last year but haven't had the balls to use and do it justice yet  your fish selection in your last tank got me hooked love barbs but have only got round to keeping cherries set up sounds the dogs danglies, will you be using maple leaf rock in this as well ?


 
It is top quality wood and good value, get it in your tank Tim. Maple leaf rock will make an appearance but will be covered in moss.


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## George Farmer

Great start and nice review of nice kit. Watching this one closely.


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## charlie

Very thorough start, and a great looking set up. I will be looking forward to see how this goes Iain.


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## LondonDragon

Looking great Iain gotta love the NA kit  Been a fan for many years and it just keeps getting better, just a matter of time before I get one myself, watching this one


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## PM

Looks great and I have to say, it's ALL about METAL inlets and outlets. I can't stand the glass ones I have broken several and believe me I am very careful with them.

Though I still think there could be a better attachment system than suctions cups IMO


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## Ady34

Hi Iain, 
I've been really looking forward to the start of this journal and im not disappointed 
Your NA set up sounds dreamy and I'm eager to see more.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Iain Sutherland

George Farmer said:


> Great start and nice review of nice kit. Watching this one closely.


thanks george,  i can only hope it will be half as interesting and informative as your current journal.



PM said:


> Looks great and I have to say, it's ALL about METAL inlets and outlets. I can't stand the glass ones I have broken several and believe me I am very careful with them.
> 
> 
> Though I still think there could be a better attachment system than suctions cups IMO


 
All too easily done Tim and no dirty pipes, visibly at least!



Ady34 said:


> Hi Iain,
> I've been really looking forward to the start of this journal and im not disappointed
> Your NA set up sounds dreamy and I'm eager to see more.
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


 
And im eager to do more Ady just need the old tank out of the way to get much further.


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## pariahrob

Gorgeous new setup. I like the new cabinet design a lot.

I have the older version of what you have and I think the new options for routing gear are a big improvement. That said, they were great anyway!

As for the quality vs ADA I think ADA are a bit more refined in some areas but not anywhere near enough to notice unless you're up close. I actually think the NA glass is clearer.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this.


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## grathod

Loving the cut outs, I'd be spoilt for choice as to what to plumb with, watching this one closely & looking forward to your progress on this NA beauty... I think once I've moved in a few months depending on monies, am going to keep NA on my radar for a grand 6 footer... subscribed!


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## Gary Nelson

A great start and some great photos too! very good review as well - it looks a lovely bit of kit and I will be watching this progress


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## Stu Worrall

wow!  that looks like a very nice setup Iain and im sure youll grace it with a great scape soon!  Love the metal pipes and the cutouts and youve got that perfect scaping ratio in a 4 foot.  Its the one I want but cant fit in the house!


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## Dave Pierce

Really cool setup, looks very well made....even underneath the tank looks smart! Can't wait to see this progress


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## Iain Sutherland

pariahrob said:


> As for the quality vs ADA I think ADA are a bit more refined in some areas but not anywhere near enough to notice unless you're up close. I actually think the NA glass is clearer.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you do with this.


 
3 NA set ups or 1 ADA...? hmmm let me think 
The improvements they have made seem to be very user focused which is great.



grathod said:


> Loving the cut outs, I'd be spoilt for choice as to what to plumb with, watching this one closely & looking forward to your progress on this NA beauty... I think once I've moved in a few months depending on monies, am going to keep NA on my radar for a grand 6 footer... subscribed!


Did consider a 5ft but was advised that its another level as far as maintenance and cost, fully scaped plants alone for a 6ft would set you back about £400+ eek!



Gary Nelson said:


> A great start and some great photos too! very good review as well - it looks a lovely bit of kit and I will be watching this progress


Thanks gary, just pretend the massive barrel distortion isnt there 



stuworrall said:


> wow! that looks like a very nice setup Iain and im sure youll grace it with a great scape soon! Love the metal pipes and the cutouts and youve got that perfect scaping ratio in a 4 foot. Its the one I want but cant fit in the house!


Phah!! who needs a bed.  Thanks for the confidence in me Stu, you can likely expect a PM or two along the way.
I would seriously recommend the steel pipes on looks alone. Ed seems to make them work for him so the only reason for me to have issues is well.. me.



Dave Pierce said:


> Really cool setup, looks very well made....even underneath the tank looks smart! Can't wait to see this progress


Cheers dave, ill do my best to get it going asap.


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## Lindy

Wow, stunning!


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## grathod

its one of those things, once you enjoy the hobby as much as we all do, you take the plunge - headlong. Already tackled the hardest thing - the Mrs is sold on the idea that it will make a real focal point as a room divider - i'll just add it onto the refurb cost of the property. lol!

Like I said can't wait to see how yours comes along, good luck.


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## killi69

Iain Sutherland said:


> Got a style in mind but waiting on a delivery from Tom Barr for a load of wood which will dictate how it all comes together. All i can be sure of at the moment is that it it will be 85% Asian flora and fauna.... just love barbs too much, so currently searching for some less common varieties i like.Its a big space to fill so think perspective will be quite important and as i dont have the natural eye for building a scape off the cuff im in no rush. No doubt ill be asking for hardscape opinions along the way.


Hi Iain,
I do like your new tank and cabinet. Very clean design and you have organised the inside of your cabinet real nice too. To be honest though, I am more excited to find out more about what is going to go inside your tank. Wood from Tom Barr ... Asian flora and fauna ... less common varieties... I can't wait!
Good luck, I will be watching this.
Andre


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## Alastair

Wow looks fantastic mate and I'm sure you'll do it proud with your scaping skills mate. I wonder how many times a day you wracking your brain on what layout your going to do ha ha

One thing I noticed though is that having both the hydor inline and am1000 on each of the inlets is going to reduce flow intake surely, esdpecially the reactor. Would this not put strain on the motor? 

Really looking forward to watching this one mate


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## greenink

Great first post. Things like no brace in cabinet my be details but can see why a massive help!  

Will follow with interest. The AM1000 was very noisy empty for me - only worked quietly after I filled with small stones. My 259 journal has all the different combinations I tried. 

Also, it unscrews at the very top bit that's sort of like a hexagon, not where the clear plastic meets the black. You need a wide adjustable spanner around the hexagon, if that makes sense. 

What are the dimensions?


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## Iain Sutherland

Its amazing how much time i can lose looking at pieces of glass al.
Ive got a new inline on standby if the reactor doesnt work out 

cheers mike ill double check but pretty sure it was glued there to.
Tank is 120x45x55, im not used to having a tank that is taller than it is wide.


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## Iain Sutherland

killi69 said:


> Hi Iain,
> I do like your new tank and cabinet. Very clean design and you have organised the inside of your cabinet real nice too. To be honest though, I am more excited to find out more about what is going to go inside your tank. Wood from Tom Barr ... Asian flora and fauna ... less common varieties... I can't wait!
> Good luck, I will be watching this.
> Andre


 
Its a nice bit of kit andre, i wouldnt get too excited about whats going in, its nothing as exotic as you like


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## Alastair

hows the tank coming along mate, any updates??


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## Iain Sutherland

hey al, getting there mate,  life keeps getting in the way.... should be planted next weekend all going to plan.
Trouble with waiting soo long ive started second guessing everything 
Hey ho, plants are ordered so just going to run with it now.
Cheers for the interest.


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## grathod

Quick question Ian, am considering the thermo version of your filter- 2180. I noticed 3 nozzles on the filter head... This is new territory for me as used mainly the 2 nozzle head filters, not sure whether I would want to use 2 outlet strainers on the setup. Do you think running both outlets through one strainer using a Y connector would be advisable? What are your thoughts?


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## Iain Sutherland

hey there, i wouldnt advise this as i think it would slow the flow down dramatically, it is a bit of an annoyance having two inlets (especially if you want a second filter) but then its an easy price to pay for good flow and filtration.


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## grathod

Iain Sutherland said:


> hey there, i wouldnt advise this as i think it would slow the flow down dramatically, it is a bit of an annoyance having two inlets (especially if you want a second filter) but then its an easy price to pay for good flow and filtration.


 
thanks for getting back to me on this. hhmmm, will have a think whether I go for the eheim or the fx6.


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## Iain Sutherland

Progress   Sorry no pictures though.

Did a wet test today and for the first time every there was not a single dribble from any connections, so nice to use eheim tubing again.
CO2 is all hooked up to the AM100 reactor and seems to be working well with a drop off of around 20% in filter flow.
Flow looks good in an empty tank, circulation is pretty consistent however  this will entirely change once scaped on sunday, I have some powerheads on standby if needed.
Got all the back lighting done which consists of 2 x 54w T5's running guissemann midday bulbs which ive had knocking around for a while after wrong ordering and iquatics reflectors.  Also got some stage lighting gels in red, orange and blue as plan to run the back lighting for several hours a day and these will hopefully add something to the overall image.
First few plants arrived including some awesome rooted blyxa japonica from Martin (Original) thanks a lot, highly recommended.
Got a busy day tomorrow working and then shooting down to Ed to grab the rest of the plants, some more rock and 65 amano shrimp to go into the holding tank for a few days.
Sunday is the planned day for scaping however im a little concerned that some of the Manzi hasnt sunk yet!! Felt sure 2 weeks would be loads but seems the thicker manzi takes a lot longer than the pieces ive used before.

Anyhoo with a little luck the next post from me on here will be with pictures all up and running....fingers crossed, woop!


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## Ady34

Sounds great Iain, can't wait mate.


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## Alastair

65 amano shrimp :-0 jawdrop


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## Iain Sutherland

Me 





Ady34 said:


> Sounds great Iain, can't wait mate.


Me neither mate, as long as floating wood doesn't ruin my day!



Alastair said:


> 65 amano shrimp :-0 jawdrop


65 soldiers to add to the 15 officers I have already, the amano army will kick some algae ass


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## Alastair

Will you have room for fish with all those ha ha. 
.looking forward to sunday mate


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## plantbrain

Good call on stainless steel vs those glass breaking Lily pipes.

Take your sweet time setting up the hardscape.


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## Iain Sutherland

the stainless gear is brilliant, im done with glass... and blood.

ive been playing for a few weeks but still wasnt happy so put the wood in to soak.  If i cant acheive something i like on the fly its no biggy as most plants are invitro so will throw them in the fridge until im happy.  
Im finding it quite hard to imagine this scape grown in so will likely be an ugly duckling for several weeks


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## Henry

This is one SEXY tank. After years of botching and mis-matching to get things right in my tanks, I can't wait until I can afford a beautifully made setup like this. Congratulations on what looks like a top notch purchase 

Seeing as you're going for an Asian fauna, I'd like to recommend Pethia gelius. They're very active and interesting fish, with good schooling characteristics. They also colour up beautifully with subtle golds and black stripes.

Good luck with the scape, I look forward to seeing how you go about utilising the clean lines of this fantastic tank.


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## Iain Sutherland

Mental note to self... 4ft moss scape will always be a stupid idea! 30 pots down 5 to go....


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## tim

Man I can't wait for more pics  did anyone else actually see that bards ape teaser u posted on your other journal it looked good Iain.


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## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> Mental note to self... 4ft moss scape will always be a stupid idea! 30 pots down 5 to go....



Stiff drink or two after mate hey 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Eboeagles

Only just picked up this thread.

Come on Iain lets be 'avin you. I can't wait to see some pics.

I'm also desperate to see some of his NA gear for sale in the UK and know the prices.


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## tim

tim said:


> Man I can't wait for more pics  did anyone else actually see that bards ape teaser u posted on your other journal it looked good Iain.


I meant hardscape teaser, I hate predictive text lol.


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## Iain Sutherland

tim said:


> Man I can't wait for more pics  did anyone else actually see that bards ape teaser u posted on your other journal it looked good Iain.


thanks tim , however that harscape all went into the shed as while at Freshwatershrimp i found a bunch of ideal wood that i couldnt resist.  Got hardscape coming out my ears now.

thanks al, beer was out by 2pm  

i didnt get finished last night, i got most of it done but had nothing left in me so had to go sleep.  Just about to get up and finish off.... should have some pics up soon.


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## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> thanks tim , however that harscape all went into the shed as while at Freshwatershrimp i found a bunch of ideal wood that i couldnt resist.  Got hardscape coming out my ears now.
> 
> thanks al, beer was out by 2pm
> 
> i didnt get finished last night, i got most of it done but had nothing left in me so had to go sleep.  Just about to get up and finish off.... should have some pics up soon.



Hurry don't keep us all waiting 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Iain Sutherland

Done finally. Still awaiting some plants that should be here tomorrow so will reveal all then. Something to get your imagination going though...











Sunrise on a new scape


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## Alastair

Gonna be a cracker mate.....excuse the pun.  Really looking forward to this. I forgot they did their own substrate system too. 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Iain Sutherland

cheers mate,im looking forward to seeing your now bud.  Ill flick you a pm in a mo...
Scape name might just be temp while i consider others but wanted a watermark after hearing about pictures being stolen...

Just need the background plants and itll be done.  Its pretty sparse at the moment even though there are quite a lot of plants, most just as rhizomes and invitro so should spring to life over the coming weeks.
Also want to get some Bucephalanda's to detail but need to complete the sale of a kidney first 
I broke my DC and thermometer last night as my brain was fried, really glad i dont have glass lilys any more!!
Pumping toxic levels of co2 at the moment along with dosing just 50% micros for the first week or two while it settles down, lights at 60% power and quite high.  Not keen on tempting algae until the army go in at the end of the week or so.
Water changes are being completed using the eheim 5000, drains it in about 30 seconds lol
I'm also trying out the Tropica phone app just for giggles, very handy to keep track of how long the tanks been running also.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi
this is a nice looking tank !! (really i am jealous hahaha)
Is it possible to have the link to the web site where you buy it ( I can t find it) or the N A web site.
I would like to buy an optiwhite tank !!
looking forward for more update and pic of this tank! 
cheers


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## charlie

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Hi
> this is a nice looking tank !! (really i am jealous hahaha)
> Is it possible to have the link to the web site where you buy it ( I can t find it) or the N A web site.
> I would like to buy an optiwhite tank !!
> looking forward for more update and pic of this tank!
> cheers


Just go to the sponsors forum on this site, and go to freshwater shrimp. There is a shortcut to their site.
Charlie


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## Iain Sutherland

hey there, it really is a good bit of kit.  Freshwatershrimp are the UK distributor for NA, however i believe you are in far warmer climes. 
NATURAL AQUARIO | Aquarium Systems Manufacturer  dont think the website is really up to date though as they have a new line due to launch.....


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## Ian Holdich

You tease!


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## Iain Sutherland

Haha not intentionally Ian, some plants just arrived today.

Ok, plant list
Taxiphyllum barbieri x 35 pots(ish) half trimming from ed, half tropica
Blyxa Aubertii x 20
Blyxa Japonica x 15
Cryptocoryne Retrospiralis x 7 plants
Bolbitus Heudelotii just as rhizomes
Hygrophillia pinnatifida x 2 invitro about 40 plants
Bucephalandra to be added sometime.....

So its a bit of a nemesis tank as ive failed with a lot of these plants in the past, id like to think ive learnt something since then though.
Few weeks it should look a different tank. Want to try black background on the two islands leaving the middle open as most gaps should fill in.


The construction


from the sofa


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## Alastair

Thats looking beautiful mate!!!
Youve definitely got the knack for it now and love the yellow hugh to the back ground. It doesnt look just planted. Especially the moss.  You sure its only been planted a few days  
One criticism and its purely probably just me...im far from a scaper but the tall piece of wood to the left that's kind of upright looks out of place? 
Or is it just me  

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Henry

Agreed with the above statement on the wood. It looks like it's coming from the top rather than the bottom and is detracting from what is a beautifully clean looking scape. It's incredibly neat without looking clinical. Looks beautiful in pictures, but I bet it's really something in the flesh.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Whooaaaa every update is better and better ! Very nice. Live the feeling if that scape. 
I agree with Alastair, I am not a great scraper at all but I think the same. 
Mate continue to surprise us with that tank !!!  cheers


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Do you have already the idea of which fish will fit that scape ?


----------



## Steve Smith

I suspect that wood to the left will look a whole lot different when this matures


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. I totally understand about that piece of wood along with a couple of other pieces, however I think it will change a lot over the next 4 weeks as the plants fill in all the gaps and moss bulks out so ill stick with it and see.... I knew it would be an ugly duckling for a while 
All the wood lifts out as a couple of bits so can be changed if it still looks odd in a few weeks.
I'm hoping it will look like the picture in my head eventually lol. If not ill just have to go see ed and get some other bits of wood....
 Also need to level the tank too.

Fauna wise will be barbs again but different ones along with some loaches and another undecided school of something. I have a few ideas but open to suggestions.


----------



## sanj

Sidthimunkis are good for planted tanks, a nice shoal would look great. I keep about 25 built up slowly, they arent cheap fish.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

hi sanj thanks for the suggestion, not wrong about the cost of Sidthimunkis even with a bit of a deal its a heartbreaker yet they are still top of the list, thinking maybe 8 or so.  I was interested in some smaller asian catfish but they are rocking horse poop so no doubt have an even higher price tag even if i could find them.
No rush to stock though and these things always change.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Steve Smith said:


> I suspect that wood to the left will look a whole lot different when this matures


ah a man of faith  cheers steve, heres hoping.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

All is well so far, got a few more plants to add in over the next few days, 10 bucephalandra Malawi and some Microsorum 'needle'.  Had a little trim of the pinna, just nipping the tops out to try and keep compact and also added a few more bits.  Im really impressed with the invitro pinna, really healthy new growth in a short amount of time.  
Still running with just micros, thinking next week to start alternating with all in one.
Got some melt on the Blyxa Aubertii which i expected as happened last time i tried it, the leaves are so delicate it really doesnt like travelling, it does also have new growth just appearing so should come good.

New Gush DC arrived friday so now have an idea of the co2 level, nice lime green before lights on so will think about adding shrimp soon.
Aquaray controller isnt keeping time, seems to lose 2 hours in every 24hr period.  Have contacted the supplier to get it changed as this is a bit of headache and could easily cause algae issues.

Added in a bunch of mature filter media from the holding tank along with 300g of purigen, water is now nice and clear   Id like to get rid of the powerhead for a filter as i have an extra stainless outlet and glass inlet, current thinking is something like a JBL greenline 1500 or similar as the wallet cant handle another eheim at the moment.  All recommendations welcome.

This has got me thinking again about how Amano looks runs his 4' tanks with just one ADA filter with less output than a 2080?  How does he do this?!?!   Is it 24hr co2? Magic water? Daily water changes for the life of the tank?  I dunno but want to figure it out...
Which then got me thinking about water changes... would 25ltrs changed daily do the same job as 150ltrs once a week?  Any opinions on this would be gratefully received.
This would make life easier as storing 150ltrs RO  is fine but having it at a temp that that isnt going to shock the fish etc especially during the colder months is going to be an issue....any thoughts?

Anyhoo, will post a couple of new pics later tonight....
Have a nice sunday everyone and enjoy the sunshine.


----------



## tim

Looking forward to more pics Iain, think I read amano uses less intense lighting so would that mean the flow requirement is lessened ? I would imagine his minions clean and change water at the clap of his hands also  I've tried smaller daily water changes on my 90cm, found I still needed to carry out a larger water change every couple of weeks to remove all the detritus. Really like the wood/ moss framework you've created gonna look spot on grown in mate.


----------



## greenink

Amano uses hundreds of amano shrimp. Really a lot more than anyone here - look at any close up of his YouTube channel. Agree flow is very low in them all. Plus he starts with incredibly high plant mass and continues with very low fish stocking. His light levels are high if you ask me. 

Plus he's got countless minions. Is interesting that there's no good 'what do you actually do' interviews with him that are a week in the life of the tanks in his shop.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Hi Ian, tank is looking superb and will turn into a beauty 2 weeks after first moss trim.
nice to hear invitro pinnatifida did well also. my opinion you over did with the moss, could have used half of it 
one filter is very possible, i am running just one in all my latest tanks. key is less light and ferts, especially less hours rather than intensity also. Latest tank i am running 300l with just one jbl cristalprofi 1500. if you want to save on filters go second hand.


----------



## Monk d'Wally de Honk

Very nice, love the stainless pipes. Even more stuff to save up for now.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

mikeappleby said:


> Amano uses hundreds of amano shrimp. Really a lot more than anyone here - look at any close up of his YouTube channel. Agree flow is very low in them all. Plus he starts with incredibly high plant mass and continues with very low fish stocking. His light levels are high if you ask me.
> 
> Plus he's got countless minions. Is interesting that there's no good 'what do you actually do' interviews with him that are a week in the life of the tanks in his shop.


 
I guess it is a combination of things that means this can work as you say and having umpa lumpas all round doing daily maintenance and WC's will always help.
Im would consider his light to be high as well, most of his 120cm have 2 or 3 x 250w HQI over them so dont think low light is a factor.



Piece-of-fish said:


> Hi Ian, tank is looking superb and will turn into a beauty 2 weeks after first moss trim.
> nice to hear invitro pinnatifida did well also. my opinion you over did with the moss, could have used half of it
> one filter is very possible, i am running just one in all my latest tanks. key is less light and ferts, especially less hours rather than intensity also. Latest tank i am running 300l with just one jbl cristalprofi 1500. if you want to save on filters go second hand.


 
thanks ed, i hope so. Will be nice to see it develop. I wasnt too sure how thick to lay the moss on so just went for it, live and learn... if i use less you'll have to pay for your own holiday 
I am tempted to stay with one filter but it goes against everything ive learnt in practise about high tech. I think ill get a second filter so its there if needed but maybe try removing the powerhead for a few weeks and seeing what happens. All of your tanks certainly look fine with just the one.
Im currently using 50% ferts and just started alternating micro and all in one with daily 75% WC, what sort of dosing would you suggest with the vimi ferts if i stick with one filter??
LED's are running at 60% about 40cm from surface so relatively low....50 of the Amanos are in now and are happy cleaning up which should give a bit of a safety net.

The pinna from you was mad, i also had some Anubias pinna invitro from AE which had maybe 15 plants in but yours were al least double that. Interestingly your pinna is adapting a lot quicker than the anubias ones also, even when next to each other...?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

mikeappleby said:


> ook at any close up of his YouTube channel.


gotta love ADAview, not only are the tanks inspiring (and confusing!) they are very helpful to plan how plants should be laid out.  Missing the daily fix at the moment but look forward to seeing the new scaped tanks ...  one day i will visit the gallery.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Little update, added 10 bucephalandra 'melawi' which is really pretty and was in top condition, also a little microsorum 'needle'.







Did have a FTS but once on the computer it was a shocker lol i'll have another go tomorrow.


----------



## Ady34

Looking very nice Iain, loving all the moss, and once all the plants grow in on the wood it'll be a treat!
What type of wood is it mate?


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Iain

Great journal so far mate - lovely set-up and a cracking layout. I've seen the NA kit at Ed's showroom and was very impressed. The stainless piping isn't for me but I'm a bit weird and enjoy cleaning glass...carefully!

I can understand the 'concern'  with the left wood but like you say, the planting will change the whole picture in time.  I have no doubt this aquascape will develop into one of the UK's finest this year.

The comments about the ADA NA Gallery tanks are interesting and I've given these a lot of thought over the years. I think their success with such apparent low circulation are a combination of factors.

1. Very frequent maintenance. Likely daily. Big maintenance team always on hand to nip any issues in the bud.
2. Low lighting levels. Sure, they're metal halide but they're NA-Green bulbs that have relatively low PAR. They're also suspended quite high.
3. Low water column nutrients and low CO2. This combined with the low light makes the tanks low energy, and so the requirement for perfect circulation is reduced. Aqua Soil obviously helps with the low water nutrient levels. I also believe the soft water helps.
4. Huge algae crew - 1+ shrimp per litre, loads of otos, and SAEs in larger tanks.

To answer your question about the water changes - I believe larger less frequent (say 1x 75% per week) is better than smaller more frequent (say 10% daily). Otherwise the organic waste may slowly build up over time.

Looking forward to following this a lot!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ady34 said:


> Looking very nice Iain, loving all the moss, and once all the plants grow in on the wood it'll be a treat!
> What type of wood is it mate?


 
wood is from ed and believe its standard bogwood.  Never gave it much thought before but when i saw it i snapped it up as was also great value and doesnt need soaking 



George Farmer said:


> Hi Iain
> Great journal so far mate - lovely set-up and a cracking layout. I've seen the NA kit at Ed's showroom and was very impressed. The stainless piping isn't for me but I'm a bit weird and enjoy cleaning glass...carefully!
> I can understand the 'concern' with the left wood but like you say, the planting will change the whole picture in time. I have no doubt this aquascape will develop into one of the UK's finest this year.


 
Hey george, thanks for the kind comments. The NA gear is really smart and seeing it at Ed's place really sells it, have to make a point of leave the credit card at home when i visit now.

Your right that is a little weird  No question that the glass lilys looks much neater when clean but i certainly dont have the patience for it and being a bit oaf handed it always made me nervous cleaning.
As for one of the finest... id love to think so yet those spots are saved for the likes of yourself and a bunch of other people on here that have a touch, and experience, im yet to find.  

ADA gallery tanks... think your right yet he still achieves supercharged growth rates which defies the lower light levels no? I'm planning to keep the light relatively low on this one for similar reasons in the hope i can stick to one filter, i guess time will tell.  Now if i can just train my housemates to maintain the tank daily were all good 

Im looking forward to watching it grow too george as really i'm still feeling my way along, i hope it delivers on the image im hoping for.
cheers


----------



## bogwood

Iain.
looking for a cabinet switch like yours.
Could your point me in the direction to get one.
Thanks


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Just discovered something of a problem, what I thought was melt on the blyxa aubertii isn't, in fact the ottos are eating it at a staggering rate. 
So now to try and catch the buggers without trashing the scape!?!?!


----------



## George Farmer

Best catching them in the middle of the night with a red torch.


----------



## SalvadorNL

Hi Iain, I see you found the time to set up your new tank. It is looking great. Love the greens of the plants with the led unit.
I've set up your old tank as well and put images online, not as professional as you have done yours though.
Would be great to see how this matures out when you manage to get your otos out. I can house a few more if you need to get rid of them


----------



## Iain Sutherland

George Farmer said:


> Best catching them in the middle of the night with a red torch.


nice tip george, sadly no red light so had a go the old fashioned way.  The aquarium gods must have been shining on me as they almost swam into the net 
Trimmed out all the damaged aubertii yesterday which has left it looking a little sad but i can see good root growth on it so should come back in a little while...



SalvadorNL said:


> Hi Iain, I see you found the time to set up your new tank. It is looking great. Love the greens of the plants with the led unit.
> I've set up your old tank as well and put images online, not as professional as you have done yours though.
> Would be great to see how this matures out when you manage to get your otos out. I can house a few more if you need to get rid of them


hey Sjoert, the LED's give a nice crisp light which im happy with but they arent supposed to be too good over red plants.  
ottos are out and in the other tank now so hope the growing in process can continue without any more set backs ?!

Ill have a look at your journal shortly as im very interested to see what you are doing with it.


----------



## bogwood

bogwood said:


> Iain.
> looking for a cabinet switch like yours.
> Could your point me in the direction to get one.
> Thanks


Hi
can you help.
Thanks alan


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Sorry Alan I must have missed that post. The light switch came from BnQ (cupboard switch) which fits inline with the power lead inside the cabinet. 
I wouldn't go without now.


----------



## bogwood

Iain Sutherland said:


> Sorry Alan I must have missed that post. The light switch came from BnQ (cupboard switch) which fits inline with the power lead inside the cabinet.
> I wouldn't go without now.


Thanks Iain, will pick one up tomorrow.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Quick shot to journal progress, all's well.. Now running 75% RO, lights up to 65% and bi daily WC. Aubertii took a real beating so not much happening there for now.


----------



## greenink

Iain Sutherland said:


> lights up to 65%


 
Is the light buzzing driving you mad? Can't bear the high pitched whine!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

hey mike, maybe im lucky dont they dont make a peep.  These are the 1000's rather than 1500's though, does it effect both?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Put the last of the amanos in today, totalling 85 now, along with the 3 denisonii's from barb island.  Noticed the denisonii's were very fat and now the holding tank is empty i can see why..... im missing about 200 cherry shrimp  just 5 or so survivors.They seem very happy though and have fantastic colour, will try and catch an image or two tomorrow.


----------



## greenink

Are you getting Amanos cheap somewhere or just seeing them as an investment? Wish they were native here...


----------



## aliclarke86

Yumyum cherries


----------



## Iain Sutherland

mikeappleby said:


> Are you getting Amanos cheap somewhere or just seeing them as an investment? Wish they were native here...


Got a good bulk deal from ed at freshwatershrimp,my initial thinking was I'd sell the cherries to cover the cost so now it's an investment lol
A good one though, no diatoms and generally never had such a spotless tank. It's quite shocking how much poo they produce though, I have to syphon the sand everyday with airline to remove it.



aliclarke86 said:


> Yumyum cherries


Lol an expensive diet.


----------



## Lindy

mikeappleby said:


> Amano uses hundreds of amano shrimp. Really a lot more than anyone here


 
 In the ADA book/catalogue Amano recommends 10 to 20 amano shrimp for an average 60cm tank.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

That's interesting LC and doesn't seem so many. I know that if you have access to lots of amanos then 1 per litre on start up reducing to 1 per 5ltrs later is well regarded. I believe they will also begin to eat plants if there are too many once the tank is clean.
The aubertii is still looking eaten, think I may have to keep an eye in case the amano's are also contributing to their demise..? Fingers crossed it is just the damaged leaves from the ottos, if not the I need a new plan as I'm cutting more out than is growing!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Gotta love a denisonii  very tempted to scap the loach idea and get another 3 or 4 of them.


pretty hard to see what this pic looks like as my laptop keeps flicking between brightness modes which is annoying to say the least.


----------



## NanoJames

Wow, lovely fish Iain! That's gutting about the cherry shrimp. It could have been worse though. You could have had fish dying with too much gourmet food!
Cheers


----------



## Andy Thurston

Nice fish. I have 5 and their great to watch


----------



## tim

Love those barbs mate, more of them would really suit this scape IMO moss seems to be taking off well, have you won the lottery dude nearly a hundred Amano shrimp and bucephalandra as well ( not to mention the na setup ) top scape Iain looking forward to seeing this fully mature.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

NanoJames said:


> Wow, lovely fish Iain! That's gutting about the cherry shrimp. It could have been worse though. You could have had fish dying with too much gourmet food!
> Cheers


always a bright side 



Big clown said:


> Nice fish. I have 5 and their great to watch


they are, love how they are always in the open and come over to say high when approached.



tim said:


> Love those barbs mate, more of them would really suit this scape IMO moss seems to be taking off well, have you won the lottery dude nearly a hundred Amano shrimp and bucephalandra as well ( not to mention the na setup ) top scape Iain looking forward to seeing this fully mature.


im seriously reconsidering the stocking at the moment, just need to be concious that the 15 new barbs that are coming will be lower level too, along with what could be 6/7 denisonii's it could get a little busy.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

so i started to read a book about my camera tonight.... any better?


----------



## Alastair

Lovely photos mate

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Andy Thurston

Nice photos. i bet its hard to get 2 in focus at once
Are you lucky enough to have females in your group.
 Mine chase each other into higher water when they spar. there supposed to be more active in larger numbers so you may still get some higher level activity


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Yes, a bit better


----------



## faizal

Hi Iain,... Just went through the entire journal. Wow,...to say the least. The equipments are top notch & your scaping talent is amazing. I love contrast that you've created between the snow white sandy foreground & the deep greens of the moss. They look so healthy. I can never make my moss look half as good as yours. Looking forward to see more pics.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Piece-of-fish said:


> Yes, a bit better


haha i'll keep reading then 



faizal said:


> Hi Iain,... Just went through the entire journal. Wow,...to say the least. The equipments are top notch & your scaping talent is amazing. I love contrast that you've created between the snow white sandy foreground & the deep greens of the moss. They look so healthy. I can never make my moss look half as good as yours. Looking forward to see more pics.


thanks a lot faizal, it means a lot to get such feedback. Dont worry i cant grow moss either, so figured theres only one way to learn and ive got plenty of time to balls it up yet 


I popped to my local MA to grab a couple more denisonii's but they didnt have any but i got talked into the loaches at a very good price. They are going in the holding tank for now and shall be added in a week or so unless i get inpatient.

Another 50% WC today and added the JBL 1501E filter to remove the powerhead, this also means that i need to talk to Ed to sort another steel inlet as i nearly broke the new gush g17 pipe as soon as i took it out of the box.... stupid glass.
Im also a little puzzled by the 2080, i always felt it favoured one inlet over the other so removed the inline heater and put it on the 1501, yet still it took ages to get the water flowing through both inlets even with one pinched closed. Has anyone else experience this with the 2080 series filter??
Otherwise all still seems well aside from the broken TMC controller.... its losing 2 hours a day and waiting for a replacement. Very annoying as it seems to lose the 2 hours at the point it turns on, lights should go out at 9.30 but last night still on at 11pm!! Danger...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Big clown said:


> Nice photos. i bet its hard to get 2 in focus at once
> Are you lucky enough to have females in your group.
> Mine chase each other into higher water when they spar. there supposed to be more active in larger numbers so you may still get some higher level activity


pretty sure i have 2 females and one male and think i will add to the group to see more natural behavior as you say.


----------



## killi69

Hey Iain,

Long time!	I have been following this thread and must say your tank is looking REALLY good.

I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my 2080 also. In fact, the same thing happened with the new filter I recently installed, as with the old one it replaced. The other day, after I had been away for a couple of days, I even noticed that the flow in one of the intakes (the one with the CO2 UP atomiser ) had completely stopped. With both filters, it concerned the intake pipe on the right. One intake pipe is about 40cm longer than the other - not sure if this could be the reason why, with the flow choosing the path of least resistance?? Do the lengths of the intake pipes vary on your filter?

Regards,

Andre


----------



## Ady34

Hi Iain, with regards the timer issue, could you not temporarily run the TMC one 24/7 and then add a seperate timer to turn it on/off to reduce risk? Or is that not possible?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

killi69 said:


> Hey Iain,
> 
> 
> Long time!	I have been following this thread and must say your tank is looking REALLY good.
> 
> 
> I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my 2080 also. In fact, the same thing happened with the new filter I recently installed, as with the old one it replaced. The other day, after I had been away for a couple of days, I even noticed that the flow in one of the intakes (the one with the CO2 UP atomiser ) had completely stopped. With both filters, it concerned the intake pipe on the right. One intake pipe is about 40cm longer than the other - not sure if this could be the reason why, with the flow choosing the path of least resistance?? Do the lengths of the intake pipes vary on your filter?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andre


 
Andre, has been too long, hope your well.  Thanks for the interest in the journal, its coming along slowly but surely aside the aubertii 

hmm, odd about the filter especially as youve had it twice, my thinking was along the same lines, path of least resistance....  before adding the other filter they were similar lengths but one running the heater had this issue now the same one is much shorter with no heater and still didnt want to prime so to speak?  The favourable inlet runs along the roof of the cabinet rather than hanging lower so maybe that effects the syphon effect??  I also considered that maybe as the outlet runs a reactor and flow is reduced that it simply doesnt need the second inlet to feed the turnover so doesnt pull the water through??? its a puzzle.  Also mine is the left inlet that has issues...  i know alastair is running a 2080 so maybe he will chime in...

Hows your tank/s going?  See you have been buying more plants....



Ady34 said:


> Hi Iain, with regards the timer issue, could you not temporarily run the TMC one 24/7 and then add a seperate timer to turn it on/off to reduce risk? Or is that not possible?


stupidly i hadnt even considered that!!  Dont know if it will work but certainly worth a try.  Thanks Ady.


----------



## Mr. Teapot

Hi Iain, I run my TMC controller with an additional timer (I like the 1% moonlight setting after the photo period is over but not for the whole night). All seems OK over the past month and it keeps all the settings over the 8 hour shut-off - just powers back up to its minimum channel setting after a few seconds. Always thought it was a pity they didn't add multiple settings during a 24hr period on the units as standard.

Also, absolutely lovely tank. Barb Island was a real inspiration to me and I can't wait to see another masterclass unfold from the start.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

If i was to do over Teapot i think i would look at other options for a controller, its pretty limited for whats the best part of a £200 controller! Again i also hadnt considered using it in conjunction with a manual timer.... everydays a school day 

Thanks, i miss barb island and still have another scape in my head for those dimensions. Maybe ill revisit a tank with those dimensions another day.


----------



## Alastair

Hi mate 
Regarding the flow problems on the inlets ive had it a couple of times with the various 2080s I've had but not all of them. 
I had it with my current one but was mainly down to one hose being longer as the filter was on the right under the tank.  I changed the hose to equal lengths and when primed one didnt go at first until I pinched the filling one but noticed flow was a little less on the one now closest to the filter due to there being a loop so I drained the filter and re primed once the filter was repositioned so there was no loops etc. 

On my previous 2080 one seemed to not pull in as much despite equal length hose so I just emptied and when I re primed I held closed the one that worked better whilst the other filled then allowed the pinched one to flow and they evened out. 

Not sure if that helps


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Hey al, sorry for the late reply, must have missed it.
Really dont know what causes this in the 2080 range, a chink in the Eheim armor? However i guess the fact it doesnt effect performance really makes it irrelevant.Well, all the pipes are getting equally as dirty as each other so guess they are all working 

Ive been a bit slack updating this journal so will add what info i can for anyone interested in the minor changes and some pics later.

Over the last few weeks ive still been increasing co2 in way that would absolutely be impossible with my previous needle valves. Its also very reassuring to know i can give the co2 a quarter turn with no risk of gassing the fish, i used to only adjust co2 when i knew id be home most of the period. I still dont feel im anywhere near the max level as even with continued tweaking up the fauna are massively active. (I only say this to know where the max is to then wind back from, before anyone jumps on me  ) Along with this ive been increasing light levels and now at 100% power for 6 hours running from a mechanical timer, thanks Ady!, while still at a good height from the surface. When i have more time to spend with the tank and time to monitor progress i will reduce the height until growth is as i would like.

Blyxa Aubertii is a non starter, it just wont grow. Following a chat with george i dont think i will ever find out why... ph, gh, kh, tds??? who knows, i just cant grow it. So will remove this on thursday ready for cyperus helferi to arrive from ed shortly after. I tossed around a few ideas of replacing with asian stems but didnt feel any would really give the look i was after.... if you have any other ideas id love to hear them.
Rest of the plants are doing well, bolbitus is now putting out new leaf from the rhizomes, japonica going well, pinna should look great in a few more weeks and moss will need a trim soon.
Still dosing 50% dose of micros 4 days a week and 50% all in one 2 days a week which is likely unnecessary judging by the massive amount of shrimp poo providing NPK.
Am now running with 75% RO with 25% being hot water to bring up to temp and then remineralize to 180TDS. Although many would say this isnt needed i wanted to try an RO tank and also that the stocking choices ideally like softer water than my liquid rock tap.

A new addition was the Yasuhikotakia sidthimunki, got 6 for now and will likely add to the group later. They sure are 'munki's' as within a day they had rooted out every gap between the rocks and started to pull the black substrate onto the sand!! Vacuumed all that out and blocked any holes with pebbles that will be covered by moss as it grows in which has solved the issue....touch wood. Quality fish though, non stop action as they scout the sand and swim mid water but think they will benefit from some other fish in the tank as the Denisonii's arent too keen on their continued attention and always wanting to touch. What i hadnt expected was there constant chatting especially when food goes in the tank or i walk up to it. i like to think they're telling me how happy they are lol click click  

Feeding is an issue, pretty much just live food for now because any other food gets decimated by the Amano army before anything else even gets a look it. Im hoping once more fish are in along with more plant mass this will become less of a problem. Will also start adding some peas and spinach soon as the barbs go crazy for it and read the monkeys are equally as keen.

Got an email today saying my other barbs have arrived and should be delivered this week  Then will be asking some opinions for the last stocking option once these are all settled.

Anyway ive got all the camera gear out to try and grab some images after dark that ill post later tonight.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

I continued reading the dummies guide to my camera and its made it worse 
So come to the conclusion that unless i have a LOT more free time to spend taking photos it may be a losing battle. The main problem is glare from the sand and dull colours behind? that and the fact the fish wont stay still!
As you can see the monkeys have found another hole to pull substrate from too...


----------



## Ian Holdich

Nice fish, I have always fancied some of these. Nice pics btw, have you had a go at changing the white balance?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Cheers Ian, they are by far the most personable fish ive kept to date.  They like nothing more than chasing my finger around the glass then sitting in a line staring when i stop.  Of course as soon as the camera comes out they dont sit still!!
White balance..... erm not really, i have a day off friday sitting in waiting for a delivery so plan to spend some time with DPP and photoshop, but to be honest its a bit daunting so i keep putting it off.....


----------



## Alastair

nice fish mate they suit this set up really well. have you got both filters running on it now or still using the eheim and powerhead



Iain Sutherland said:


> all the pipes are getting equally as dirty as each other so guess they are all working


 
 same here mate. just ordered the jbl cleany to do a monthly pipe clean.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Was only joking about pictures, they look beautiful as well as new loaches 
I think the problem with the lights is NA setup is not accepting anything else than NA lights haha   Always hate to say that phrase but... I told you so.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:


> nice fish mate they suit this set up really well. have you got both filters running on it now or still using the eheim and powerhead
> 
> same here mate. just ordered the jbl cleany to do a monthly pipe clean.


 
Got both filter running now but not full flow.  The reactor was blowing out a lot of small bubbles at full power so turned it down a little and all good. 
Its a rubbish job and think mine get dirty even quicker if i leave the cabinet light on while making a cuppa!



Piece-of-fish said:


> Was only joking about pictures, they look beautiful as well as new loaches
> I think the problem with the lights is NA setup is not accepting anything else than NA lights haha  Always hate to say that phrase but... I told you so.


 
haha, you want the shirt off my back too?  only thing wrong with the LED's is the controller!  Retailer has now dropped off the radar too so will have to contact TMC direct this week.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Iain Sutherland said:


> Got both filter running now but not full flow. The reactor was blowing out a lot of small bubbles at full power so turned it down a little and all good.
> Its a rubbish job and think mine get dirty even quicker if i leave the cabinet light on while making a cuppa!
> 
> 
> 
> haha, you want the shirt off my back too?  only thing wrong with the LED's is the controller! Retailer has now dropped off the radar too so will have to contact TMC direct this week.


Its just the beginning, controller I mean . I just want your tank to look great


----------



## Iain Sutherland

I know mate, they may yet get changed but not for the moment. I actually really like the colour they give but know it may be an issue if I want red plants down the line... 

The retailer of the controller rang me today (spooky!) and a new unit was sent today to replace the wonky one. Back on track


----------



## greenink

What sorted camera for me was a shed load more light. 

Basically, put on shutter control at 1/100 and 800/400 ISO (depending on how good your camera is). Then pop on a tripod and bracket exposure by 1/3 stop,  and take with a timer (or ideally an IR remote - the best investment I ever made). Pick the best one and repeat. Then take lots at that setting while waving card under the lights so the fishes shoal. Sorted.

If that doesn't work, you need more light, basically.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Puntius rhomboocellatus ,AKA snakeskin barbs, went in friday and are starting to get some colour back.  Now just to sort the background planting...



Happy Fathers Day to all you breeders out there


----------



## Ian Holdich

Nice! 

Btw I saw some of those dwarf loaches today...£15 each!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Nice!
> 
> Btw I saw some of those dwarf loaches today...£15 each!


 

ta, they are very similar in behaviour to pentazona's just a little different.
yeah the loaches are crazy prices... normally £17.50 at MA  Managed to twist their arm somewhat... was that while shopping for stocking the dutch


----------



## Iain Sutherland

mikeappleby said:


> What sorted camera for me was a shed load more light.
> Basically, put on shutter control at 1/100 and 800/400 ISO (depending on how good your camera is). Then pop on a tripod and bracket exposure by 1/3 stop, and take with a timer (or ideally an IR remote - the best investment I ever made). Pick the best one and repeat. Then take lots at that setting while waving card under the lights so the fishes shoal. Sorted.
> If that doesn't work, you need more light, basically.


 
cheers Mike, ill try that as i currently favour the twist dials and push buttons randomly approach.


----------



## Alastair

Lovely photo shot their mate. When we getting a full tank one  

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:


> Lovely photo shot their mate. When we getting a full tank one



cheers Al. Lol I'm shy   not much to see with no background plants but as its you ill try and get one tomorrow.


----------



## tim

This is a stunner Iain, those snakeskin barbs are top fish are they as shy as the pentazona's ? Looking forward to a fts.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

tim said:


> This is a stunner Iain, those snakeskin barbs are top fish are they as shy as the pentazona's ? Looking forward to a fts.


 
Thanks tim, pretty similar to pentazonas in that they like cover and can be quite skittish when in the open. Saying that they are braver than pentazona's which could be because the school is bigger and also the loaches like to 'play' with them which keeps em on their toes.
They are certainly as greedy as pentazonas!!


----------



## hydrophyte

That shot above is wonderful!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Not too sure if im just unlucky but my new Aquaray controller is losing time again, not as badly but an hour a day! I think its time to explore other options.
Few images from yesterday


still cant capture a FTS im happy with


Bucephalandra Malawi flowering


Asian exception got a reprive


----------



## Ian Holdich

Nice pics Iain. That's a real shame about the controller. Have you contacted TMC directly? They're normally pretty good at getting stuff sorted. 

The set up looks really good, have you got any stems at the back? 

Dd that bucephalandra have a flower when you got it or has it done that spontaneously? It looks stunning mate!


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Love it mate !!!! 
The mosses are very healthy. And the pic are superb. 
Thanks for sharing


----------



## Gary Nelson

It looks stunning Iain! I really like it  also the placement in your room really does look superb.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Nice pics Iain. That's a real shame about the controller. Have you contacted TMC directly? They're normally pretty good at getting stuff sorted.
> 
> The set up looks really good, have you got any stems at the back?
> 
> Dd that bucephalandra have a flower when you got it or has it done that spontaneously? It looks stunning mate!


 
The controller is very annoying, first one was losing about 4 hours a day. The retailer has been pretty good at replacing no questions, he said that TMC had never had one lose time before. No doubt he will change it again if i ask but my faith is a little tarnished now.

Cyperus helferi should arrive in the next few days so touch wood it should have something in the back very soon as it looks pretty empty at the mo.

The buce flower just popped up in the last few days, id guess its pretty common like anubias but still nice to see 

Thanks a lot for the comments Ian, the encouragement means a lot.



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Love it mate !!!!
> The mosses are very healthy. And the pic are superb.
> Thanks for sharing


Hey Zanguli, thanks for the comments thats very kind. Its certainly the healthiest moss ive managed to keep to date just dreading trimming it which will have to happen this week i think to tidy it up a little.



Gary Nelson said:


> It looks stunning Iain! I really like it  also the placement in your room really does look superb.


Cheers Gary, i cant get out the front door without stopping for 15 minutes though. I've been late for everything recently lol. Now just to sort the 60 next to it and ill never leave the house


----------



## Alastair

I love that full tank shot mate and the tank from a distance. Beautiful. Its going to be a cracker (excuse the pun) when its filled in more. 
Well done mate 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Ady34

On my phone so no emoticons, but if I had them available I'd use 'mr. green' as I'm envious of this set up mate. Looks real classy and a superb journal to date. Keep up the good work, the cyperus will look great at the rear, I was thinking they may be a suitable alternative to the Blyxa too so I'd say great minds think alike 
The plants seem to be filling in really nice now and the moss is looking lush.
The in situ shot is amazing, you doing a wabi too?

Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Stunning tank and very nice photos.
A project that makes me enjoy aquariums even more 

Pedro.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:


> I love that full tank shot mate and the tank from a distance. Beautiful. Its going to be a cracker (excuse the pun) when its filled in more.
> Well done mate
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


 

Many thanks al, i have a dream of tall waving grass framing lush moss..... i hope it will get there 



Ady34 said:


> On my phone so no emoticons, but if I had them available I'd use 'mr. green' as I'm envious of this set up mate. Looks real classy and a superb journal to date. Keep up the good work, the cyperus will look great at the rear, I was thinking they may be a suitable alternative to the Blyxa too so I'd say great minds think alike
> The plants seem to be filling in really nice now and the moss is looking lush.
> The in situ shot is amazing, you doing a wabi too?
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


 
i have some  very nice of you to say so mate.
That will yours and george's great minds thinking alike then as i hadnt thought of it lol... i was trying to figure out if i could use Asian stems like limnophilia.... there is a good chance that i may still try stems before the end of this scape as an experiment but cyperus is defo the right choice.

Been thinking about a wabi for a while, starting it in a propogator then moving it across to go between the tanks however most of my emersed experiments end up drying out 




pmgsr said:


> Stunning tank and very nice photos.
> A project that makes me enjoy aquariums even more
> Pedro.


Thats nice, glad it has a positive effect.

this monkey was trying to stare me down last night


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Don't know if anyone has kept snakeskin barbs before but I have a query... When resting around the wood they look like normal fish but when they are out swimming around they face completely head down a lot?  So I had two thoughts with this, either they don't like the bright light as I don't see them doing it when lights are off or this is normal behaviour while searching for micro fauna to munch? 
Any ideas peeps as it looks pretty weird lol


----------



## Possessed200

How are you finding those led tiles? Any good?


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi lain
I wanted an info please. 
Do you have a pic of haw was packed the cabinet and the tank please. 
If you don't have is it possible to describe me how the cabinet was packed for the transport. 

Thank you very much 

Zanguli


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Hey Zanguli, no pics im afraid, the tank and cabinet were both boxed in double thickness cardboard with a polystyrene 'frame' around it.  I would think it would need to be quite badly treated to take any damage.
hope that helps.


----------



## Ady34

Hi Iain,
have you added the cyperus halferi yet?
Any recent photos   , i need a fix 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

cyperus will be in on friday, was waiting to get a bunch of other bits from ed at the same time.  
No recent pics, did the first proper moss trim and cut back some pinna so will get some up as soon as the cyperus goes in.  Oddly the one plant of aubertii i left in is now going great guns  so will move that and see how it fits with the cyperus.


----------



## Ady34

Iain Sutherland said:


> Oddly the one plant of aubertii i left in is now going great guns


Typical!
Look forward to a photo update mate 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Francis

That really is looking very nice indeed.


----------



## tim

Hi Iain, just wondered how this is going, you've deprived us of pics for a month now mate


----------



## Iain Sutherland

wow, knew it had been a while, has it been that long   apologies.
I have every intention of finding time to get the camera out this weekend so should get some images up then for all the tanks.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

All is well, health is good, algae is almost non-existent yet growth along the back is slow. While they went in a a little late and new growth is good it is testing my patience a little. I reduced lighting to 60% as keeping co2 in the tank while its been warm was a little harder. Yesterday increased back to 100% and dropped the height a little, will see what happens.



IMG_8361 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


IMG_8343 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


IMG_8377 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


IMG_8383 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


IMG_8386 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## tim

It's looking like an NA showroom mate, buceps add a nice contrast to the moss along the front, new tank looks good too


----------



## Nice

I wish i could have a room like that, i would spend hours...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Nice said:


> I wish i could have a room like that, i would spend hours...


 doing maintenance


----------



## Iain Sutherland

tim said:


> It's looking like an NA showroom mate, buceps add a nice contrast to the moss along the front, new tank looks good too


cheers tim, it is a little gallery like lol, im really liking the buce's, the colour and detail on the leaves is lovely.


----------



## Ady34

Looking stunning Iain, really love those in situ shots.
The tank looks great, especially with the sunset effect over the open grass in the centre. I bet in real life the detail and colours of the hygrophila pinnatifida and buce's on the wood look even better  fish are looking great too mate and it looks pristine, testament to your maintenance.
Have you got the tmc lights issue sorted yet? 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## sa80mark

Wow, I could never have that in my office I would never get any work done, truly superb though, very jealous


----------



## Iain Sutherland

morning ady, thanks for the comments.  Its doing alright, i seem to be able to not kill plants now, i just need to figure out how to make them grow a little faster.  In this vein ive been looking over a lot of Amanos 2 island tanks and he seems to run 2 filters pointing directly at each other across the front of the tank.?!  While this seems crazy im thinking to give it a try for a couple of weeks to see what happens as there are definite areas that flow is very low in and around the wood that could be improved.

Dont mention the TMC's otherwise ed is going to get started again   But no, TMC called me back after testing the first one for 4 weeks and they cant get it to fail?  Second one was fine for several weeks and now it has started playing up again.  I going to try running it from another socket as when the housemate was on holiday and not using his computer which runs from the same sockets i had no issue.... maybe coincidence, only one way to find out.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Very nice indeed Iain... that's my kinda scape with the moss and wood   - do you run the skimmer all the time or just at set intervals?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

sa80mark said:


> Wow, I could never have that in my office I would never get any work done, truly superb though, very jealous


 
luckily i dont have to do any work here or your right, no work would be done. I have been considering a shrimp tank on my desk at work but may be detrimental to my productivity!



Gary Nelson said:


> Very nice indeed Iain... that's my kinda scape with the moss and wood  - do you run the skimmer all the time or just at set intervals?


 
thanks gary, moss is great just dread the monthly trim.... need to get georges scissor syphon working for me.
skimmer runs 24/7, it used to catch a lot of amanos but they seem to have learnt to stay away now. Now just to train them to use scissors 
I wouldnt go without the skimmers now, its nice to have crystal clear surface and adds a little flow to the 60.


----------



## Gary Nelson

> thanks gary, moss is great just dread the monthly trim.... need to get georges scissor syphon working for me.
> skimmer runs 24/7, it used to catch a lot of amanos but they seem to have learnt to stay away now. Now just to train them to use scissors
> I wouldnt go without the skimmers now, its nice to have crystal clear surface and adds a little flow to the 60.


 
Yes I found that my skimmer used to attract the shrimps, they would still be alive inside feeding on the sponge... but once let out they would soon find the way back in again!
What type of moss are you using again?


----------



## Ady34

Iain Sutherland said:


> In this vein ive been looking over a lot of Amanos 2 island tanks and he seems to run 2 filters pointing directly at each other across the front of the tank.?! While this seems crazy im thinking to give it a try for a couple of weeks to see what happens as there are definite areas that flow is very low in and around the wood that could be improved.


Ha, i know how you feel mate. I just added my second filter last night and was up till past 1 trying to sort a decent flow pattern that got an even spread of micro bubbles, but didnt lay my vallis flat 
Looking at some of Victors tanks too, they also seem to have water flow directed at each other, difficult to tell exactly whats happening from the photos though. I tried it last night, but it doesnt work well with my hardscape layout, i think yours will be better 



Iain Sutherland said:


> Dont mention the TMC's otherwise ed is going to get started again But no, TMC called me back after testing the first one for 4 weeks and they cant get it to fail? Second one was fine for several weeks and now it has started playing up again. I going to try running it from another socket as when the housemate was on holiday and not using his computer which runs from the same sockets i had no issue.... maybe coincidence, only one way to find out.


Bummer, worth a try on a different socket though, hope it sorts it. I think the TMCs are ideal with the dimmable feature, just need them to work properly. NA lights look great, and certainly have plenty of oomph....just need a dimmer on the flourescents to be perfect 



Iain Sutherland said:


> I wouldnt go without the skimmers now, its nice to have crystal clear surface and adds a little flow to the 60.


thinking of getting one of these for aeration at night and ive developed a very fine oily film which i dont like. Ive had the same film on my shrimp nano and the plants in there are ok so hoping its not a bad sign 


More photos please 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Gary Nelson said:


> Yes I found that my skimmer used to attract the shrimps, they would still be alive inside feeding on the sponge... but once let out they would soon find the way back in again!
> What type of moss are you using again?


 
yeah, still get the odd one but not like it was first few weeks, one day there must have been 10 inside it all healthy which more than i can say for the taiwan bees when i put one in the shrimp tank for an hour... 3 dead.

Good old Java Gary, im quite pleased with the wilder look of it opposed to weeping, xmas etc


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ady34 said:


> Ha, i know how you feel mate. I just added my second filter last night and was up till past 1 trying to sort a decent flow pattern that got an even spread of micro bubbles, but didnt lay my vallis flat Looking at some of Victors tanks too, they also seem to have water flow directed at each other, difficult to tell exactly whats happening from the photos though. I tried it last night, but it doesnt work well with my hardscape layout, i think yours will be better


only one way to find out..... FIGHT!



Ady34 said:


> Bummer, worth a try on a different socket though, hope it sorts it. I think the TMCs are ideal with the dimmable feature, just need them to work properly. NA lights look great, and certainly have plenty of oomph....just need a dimmer on the flourescents to be perfect


yeah, i do feel like im an LED man now though, mainly because of thedimming and fact they are directional the light spill is minimal. When sat on the sofa i can see underneath the 60 lights which makes me see stars for a minute but not so with the leds.




Ady34 said:


> thinking of getting one of these for aeration at night and ive developed a very fine oily film which i dont like. Ive had the same film on my shrimp nano and the plants in there are ok so hoping its not a bad sign


Im not sold on the fact its caused by poor plant health, sure that will cause it but it seems equally likely for it to appear on a healthy tank (at least what appears to be healthy)  Im yet to have a tank without scum build up over the course of a week, which in turn effects the gas exchange, but still dont know why...?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

couple of quick images from tonight, still plodding along... have tried to slow it all down as im working away for the next 4-8 weeks with just the odd trip home.


25 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


26 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


27 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Iain,
Nice mate !! 
Can't wait to start mine .  I have done the hole on my roof the hang the light. 
Tell me, I wanted to know if in your inlet of your flow steel, you have a piece of steel from the production process ? 
When I received mine I heard a metallic sound, so I looked with I a light an have seen that piece of steel. I asked NA and they told me that it is part of the process web they cut the pipe with the laser. So just wanted to know if I am not alone . 

Cheers


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Not that I know of, can you shake it out?
Maybe poke something down to give it a nudge......?


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi no can't shake it out, because it have the length of the of the cutting so it won't passé where the pipe is bend. I will try to get it our from the cutting. 

Cheers


----------



## Iain Sutherland

that doesnt sound ideal, it will make cleaning them a pain and no doubt catch leaves, moss etc as it pulls them in.
Should think NA will sort it if you cant.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Evening all, figure im well over due an update on this journal.
About 6 weeks ago i sold the TMC multi control with the plan to get a different controller, at the same time i got a promotion at work and my life has gone mad so no new controller. As such the tank has been running on 2 tiles with one power lead meaning half leds on each...ultra low light....ultra slow growth. I have a plan to get a new light unit soon but still tossing around options... the geissemann futura has been teasing me, uber sexy but price tag to match lol Most likely end up with the ATI dimmable, unless anyone has a better idea for LEDS.  The up side of running one tile on a 120cm is the tank only needs a WC every 3 weeks.

Ive wanted to add to the Denisonii Barbs for a while but couldnt find any of a decent size so made the decision to rehome my two larger ones and buy 7 new smaller ones. Sadly one jumped on day one but the other 6 are settling ok and will colour up nicely as they grow.
Otherwise not a lot to report. Really want to capture a movie but struggling to find the time.


IMG_3537 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


IMG_3520 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Little image from water change today. Looking closer to how i wanted it but needs more mass.


IMG_3564 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

Want to try putting a black background behind each island and sides which i think may create some more depth through shadows??


----------



## Nice

looking really clean and fresh, i see it turn better and better as time goes by.

keep it updated please


----------



## Gary Nelson

It looks stunning mate   - really, really nice! what are the fish again at the bottom? (last but one pic) also how do you keep the sand looking so good? do you hover it and turn it over regularly?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

thanks nice, ill try to keep the updates coming.  Got a new camera so keen to give it some use also.

Hey gary, fish are 'Puntius' rhomboocellatus aka snakeskin barbs.  They are my favorite barbs so far, as nice as five banded barbs but less shy and skittish.
The sand never seems to get too bad, i guess as there are heaps of amanos in the tank along with the loaches it gets moved around a lot any way but i do stir it all up at water change in order to move it away from the glass to clean.


----------



## tim

It's looking absolutely superb Iain, shame you keep us waiting so long for updates


----------



## George Farmer

Lovely mate.  I really like the contrast in the textures and colour between the moss and the grasses.

Superb fish choice too.

One of the best 'scapes on here right now, for sure.


----------



## Deano3

stunning mate looks great and very healthy the wood and moss looks amazing

Dean


----------



## Alastair

Beautiful ian. Really nice mate. Who'd have thought 2 years ago or just over it was juwel vision scaping ha. Youve shot right up the ranks mate.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Wow, thanks for the praise folks it means a lot and is very encouraging, it keeps me striving to have a tank that I'm 100% happy with.... if that's even possible lol
I'm also having another crazy night at work so to see such positive feedback in a ciggie break is very welcome.

So being constructive I would love to hear what you guys would do differently, additional plants, hard scape imbalance  etc as it helps develop the rigid way I think of things...

Cheers all.


----------



## viktorlantos

Looks very nice my friend


----------



## Mark Evans

lain, mate this is such quality. I must agree with George, saying, this is currently one of the best layouts on the forum.

Very reminiscent of an Amano layout from a few years back. If the picture didn't have your name on it, I'd of said it was one of his!

The final picture is amazing mate. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Photo Shop?....adjustments to the whites really brings things back! I took the liberty of having a go...sorry  I wont post it, as that would be rude of me.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looks superb Iain, this has turned into one cracking layout!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

viktorlantos said:


> Looks very nice my friend


thanks viktor, your tanks have been a big inspiration over the last couple of years so very happy you like it.



Mark Evans said:


> lain, mate this is such quality. I must agree with George, saying, this is currently one of the best layouts on the forum.
> 
> 
> Very reminiscent of an Amano layout from a few years back. If the picture didn't have your name on it, I'd of said it was one of his!
> 
> 
> 
> The final picture is amazing mate. I'm not sure how familiar you are with Photo Shop?....adjustments to the whites really brings things back! I took the liberty of having a go...sorry  I wont post it, as that would be rude of me.


 


Its very generous of george and yourself to say so, in my eyes i still have a way to go before having a tank that qualifies for comparison with the likes of both of you.

What??!!  you can tell i look at 'the complete works' a lot 

I do have cs6 mark but it confuses the hell out of me just like the camera does lol id be more than happy for you to post the image so i can see what it could of looked like.

i really just need to get a light back over the tank as growth is so slow and im starting to see some effects from the low light such as the moss browning a little in the shadows along with it reverting to its leggy low tech form.  The pinna doesnt like it either and has dropped a fair few leaves.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Looks superb Iain, this has turned into one cracking layout!


thanks Mr H, im relatively pleased with it but still feel its missing something... just cant put my finger on it??
I will be adding some more invitro pinna as i have found that cuttings dont take well to wood and Ed suggested i try another texture to the right hand side which i will give a go.  Also having the sides and rear of the islands blacked out may change the look a lot.


----------



## Ady34

Like has already been said, the tank is looking superb and a credit to your vision. The quality is in its simplicity (no derogatory meaning), it doesnt try too hard, it isn't ostentatious and that works really well at creating something very natural and easy on the eye to me anyway. It draws you in and I could watch it for hours I bet. That is a difficult skill to master, less is more 
Its very impressive mate as is the photography progression 



Iain Sutherland said:


> im relatively pleased with it but still feel its missing something... just cant put my finger on it??


 


Iain Sutherland said:


> Also having the sides and rear of the islands blacked out may change the look a lot.


 


Iain Sutherland said:


> Ed suggested i try another texture to the right hand side which i will give a go.


i think all of these may be the answer, maybe your looking at needing to fill out the mid layers around the peripheries a little to loose the thinness shown from the bright light background. Perhaps hygrophila araguaia would work really nicely with the leaf shapes and tones and be about the right size to sit in those areas? Dont know how that fits your asian theme though being from brazil but it would work visually. Crypts are the obvious choice though  but maybe too predictable? Maybe another nice buce species or if you dont want anything different just some more of the short (blyxa?) grass like in the centre....you could alternatively add another small piece of mossy wood there, but planting may be easier to achieve the right balance.
I actually like the light shining through the wood towards the right but feel that something could be added to the very right edge to transition the moss to the taller grass at the rear, that will balance things up IMO. 

More frequent updates when work settles down mate, too good to miss 

Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

I've just looked through this entire Journal Iain, from the very start to the finish, and must say, Your foresight with this is unbelievably on the money. I echo what the others have said in that this is probably one of the best aquascapes kicking about at the moment, as I've seen nothing like it before. Which I find very refreshing. Amano 'esk with the rocks covered in moss leading on to the pure 'white' sand which gives a stunning effect, with the added bonus of a bursting Buceph here and there.

Your photography SKILLS have come on from starting your Journal a lot, with the latter shots being up there with the top photographers on here.

Going to watch this mate.

How are you finding the NA setup as a whole?

Cheers,
Nathaniel


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ady34 said:


> Its very impressive mate as is the photography progression


thats very kind ady, its been a pleasure running it and as much as im planning the next scape already, as we always do, im really hoping i can get it to where i want it to be over the next 3-4 months.
I think a lot of the picture progression is down to the equipment as the camera still makes my head spin!! I bought stu's old 5D mkII and it really takes a nice image, coupled with the L series lens it makes me look way better than i am 



Ady34 said:


> i think all of these may be the answer, maybe your looking at needing to fill out the mid layers around the peripheries a little to loose the thinness shown from the bright light background. Perhaps hygrophila araguaia would work really nicely with the leaf shapes and tones and be about the right size to sit in those areas? Dont know how that fits your asian theme though being from brazil but it would work visually. Crypts are the obvious choice though but maybe too predictable? Maybe another nice buce species or if you dont want anything different just some more of the short (blyxa?) grass like in the centre....you could alternatively add another small piece of mossy wood there, but planting may be easier to achieve the right balance. I actually like the light shining through the wood towards the right but feel that something could be added to the very right edge to transition the moss to the taller grass at the rear, that will balance things up IMO.


 
funny, araguaia was on the list but was taken off for exactly that reason, its not asian. Now maybe its a little daft to rule out a plant that would likely fit the bill for that reason but aside from the otos it would be the only non asian and my OCD wont let me. Cypts were a possibility but i just dont have much love for them at the moment.

The idea in my head (maybe amanos head?!) is that the right side would have a canopy of bolbitus with shadows underneath but the bolbitus in that spot grows backwards... as in towards the back!! no matter how much i try to help it along it wont play the game. In all honesty the bolbitus throughout the tank isnt doing as desired and aside talking to it im out of ideas. I think the look i want needs more light than i had previously to keep a more compact form??? Same with the pinna i believe at the moment. I think i will get the ati unit so will be interesting to see what happens with 4 or 6 54w T5's over it...

I may take a visit to ed again in the coming weeks and if he has any more bogwood that may work im open to trying different things....



Ady34 said:


> More frequent updates when work settles down mate, too good to miss


ill try buddy, really want to test out the movie function on the camera but will wait until i have more than one led unit running as 3200 iso is not ideal.




Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> I've just looked through this entire Journal Iain, from the very start to the finish, and must say, Your foresight with this is unbelievably on the money


haha that couldnt have taken long pal  updates have been very elusive!! nice to see you back on the forum again nath and look forward to seeing what you do next.



Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> How are you finding the NA setup as a whole?


love it, no quibles at all. The steel pipes are the best thing ever, good flow and no brown glass especially when im busy like at the mo.
Its just a great package, so much so next year the 60 may mature into a 90 


Really though guys im overwhelmed with the response to this last update, when you see a tank every day its easy to just spot the things you arent entirely happy with so really does give me a new appreciation for it and motivation to get more images up.

In that vain Mark kindly had a little fiddle with my erm.. pic and it really does look great. Im sure he wont mind me posting it and no doubt the rest of you will find it interesting to see the difference of when someone that knows what they are doing massages an image.


lain-3 by saintly's pics, on Flickr


----------



## Iain Sutherland

So again been too long since updating so apologies but the silly season is here and while most of you enjoy your lead up to xmas my life goes to hell providing the best christmas parties in Cambridge  that and the fact there isnt much to report.  So while i wait for all the drunks to bugger off so i can clear up i thought id update the journals a little.
Tank is declining somewhat at the moment due to lack of light, one tmc tile over 4ft simply doesnt cut it lol
Moss is going well still but the pinna and blyxa is objecting, dropping leaves and generally dying back slowly.
With luck the Guisemann futura should arrive in the next week or two, but not holding my breath, then i will replace them for some new pots.
Ive also ordered a Twinstar, ive had very few issues with this tank so it may seem pointless but fancied trying one out and the next scape will be rock dominant so worth while then. I also like the idea of having higher co2 limits due to the dissolved o2, give the guisemann a chance to stretch its legs in time for a feb/march final shoot before tear down.

Anyway, i have a day free on wednesday to sort the tanks out as none of them have had a WC in over 3 weeks so ill try and get some images up then.


----------



## sanj

Iain, it would be great if you could review the Futura when you get it.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

'When you see a tank every day its easy to just spot the things you arent entirely happy with so really does give me a new appreciation for it and motivation to get more images up.' This is very true, we get used to seeing our tanks and the spark is lost a bit sometimes.

The rising start has rosen...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Just got an email saying the futura unit will be arriving next week 



sanj said:


> Iain, it would be great if you could review the Futura when you get it.


ill try sanj but ill think ill struggle to even get it set up before xmas so you may require a little patience.

If i wasnt so tired id be excited. Tried to get some pics the other night but just not enough light to get anything worth posting up. Guess that will change soon.
Also decided to add a school of Brevibora dorsiocellata, been considering it for a while but kept chickening out as i know if they are wrong ill never get them out again. Anyway my mind is made up and they should go in next week with luck.

over and out.


----------



## aliclarke86

How is it looking at the most with only 2 50% tiles? Has it caused any problems or just getting along slowly?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## darren636

Asian dreams is so green and lush - I feel invigorated by it. Refreshed somehow.


----------



## Alastair

sanj said:


> Iain, it would be great if you could review the Futura when you get it.



George is reviewing his with videos etc on his journal I think Sanj


----------



## sanj

Alastair said:


> George is reviewing his with videos etc on his journal I think Sanj


 
Yes he did say he will, it is always good to have different viewpoints. 

Still no worries Iain, take your time.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

aliclarke86 said:


> How is it looking at the most with only 2 50% tiles? Has it caused any problems or just getting along slowly
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


few issues mostly with the pinna and blyxa lower in the tank in that they are dropping leaves and pinna getting leggy.



darren636 said:


> Asian dreams is so green and lush - I feel invigorated by it. Refreshed somehow.


 
thanks darren, glad i could invigorate you.  its not as lush at the moment but hopefully back on track soon.



sanj said:


> Still no worries Iain, take your time.


i will be sanj as just had a call from them, they have sent a marine version instead of freshwater!! They are shipping another unit direct to me today, normally 3 days delivery but who knows with xmas etc....
frustrated !!


----------



## Gary Nelson

Hope you get it in time mate, I am looking forward to seeing that in action of that fantastic scape


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Well, nothing good going on here.  Im pretty sure that I have a duff bottle of ferts that contains more copper than is normal as I've lost nearly all 80 shrimp in the last 2 weeks. Same was happening in the 60 and only thing linking them is both use the same bottle of ferts that was new 2 weeks ago. 
Being as I haven't been home when the lights are on during all this time I didn't see it happening, I had noticed the fish being very shy but was hoping it was just due to irregular feeding and general lack of maintenance.   My thinking is now that the resulting ammonia/ nitrite is the cause. 

Will now be doing a few water changes and getting some carbon in the filter to mop up. Obviously I've now switched to dry ferts for a while and will monitor. 
If nothing changes then I'm at a loss for now....

Annoyed to say the least!! 

Only positive with this tank is the futura should be here tomorrow.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ian Holdich

That's a shame mate! Hope things get sorted. 



Get some pics of the light unit though!


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Iain Sutherland said:


> Well, nothing good going on here.  Im pretty sure that I have a duff bottle of ferts that contains more copper than is normal as I've lost nearly all 80 shrimp in the last 2 weeks. Same was happening in the 60 and only thing linking them is both use the same bottle of ferts that was new 2 weeks ago.
> Being as I haven't been home when the lights are on during all this time I didn't see it happening, I had noticed the fish being very shy but was hoping it was just due to irregular feeding and general lack of maintenance.   My thinking is now that the resulting ammonia/ nitrite is the cause.
> 
> Will now be doing a few water changes and getting some carbon in the filter to mop up. Obviously I've now switched to dry ferts for a while and will monitor.
> If nothing changes then I'm at a loss for now....
> 
> Annoyed to say the least!!
> 
> Only positive with this tank is the futura should be here tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Gutting mate. 
Did you wind back the ferts when you dropped the lights? Could that be the reason for accumulation of fertilisers in the Water column?

I bet your very glad, that at long last, you can get back on track with the tank with the Futura. All the best mate, hope you've had a decent Christmas (other aforementioned issues!).

Cheers,
N


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> That's a shame mate! Hope things get sorted.
> 
> Get some pics of the light unit though!


 
will do pal.



Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Gutting mate. Did you wind back the ferts when you dropped the lights? Could that be the reason for accumulation of fertilisers in the Water column? I bet your very glad, that at long last, you can get back on track with the tank with the Futura. All the best mate, hope you've had a decent Christmas (other aforementioned issues!). Cheers,


 
thanks nath, aside from working xmas day i had a really good christmas... was too much port xmas day night though 

its not a build up of ferts, as that very hard to happen anyway, as after a water change yesterday all was fine... no shy fish, shrimp all swimming about, at which point i was scratching my head what the problem was, then added the ferts and within 15 minutes 5 shrimp lying on their backs.

had i not been so busy during december then i would have picked it up after a day or 2 but i havent touched the tank all december or seen it more than a couple of times with the lights on.

another water change today so will see what happens after...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

THE FUTURA IS NOW


----------



## darren636

The futura is like, soooo six minutes ago. Man.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Flippin awesome...


----------



## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> THE FUTURA IS NOW


Pics........


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Shhhwing! 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Initial thoughts are just wow. Amazing piece of kit that's so bright I'm still seeing stars! Running it on 30% for now till I get the tank stable again but doubt ill ever go much above 50 aside for pictures, it really is madly powerful!
The cloud function is great, running 60 clouds a day which should reduce the intensity of the overall demand from plants a little.
With lunar cycle and red bulb sunrise it means the lights are only ever fully off a couple of hours a day which was want I was after.
Visually the 4 module unit on 15% is brighter than 3 tmc's at 100%... Would love to know what the par reading are.
Colour rendition is mental, crisp and sharp with all bulbs running equal power curves. Just now starting to play with the colours. Certainly during sunrise it hits one colour that makes the plants pop like no other light I've seen.
I'll try and get some images off the dslr today and a movie of the compressed light cycle. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Troi said:


> Flippin awesome...


thanks troi... and mark


----------



## Iain Sutherland

for the first time in a long time the tank is pearling and fish seem happy. Even the few remaining shrimp are looking better...
Also added these in a week or so ago, lost 4 on day one to the eheim skim and 2 jumpers but now much more settled.

eye spot raspora by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## Gary Nelson

Lovely photo Iain.... I'm looking forward to seeing more of the new bit of kit


----------



## greenink

Iain Sutherland said:
			
		

> In that vain Mark kindly had a little fiddle with my erm.. pic



Amazing difference. Would love a step-by-step of what he did...


----------



## tim

Nice little fish mate, that futura looks frickin awesome, would scare the bejesus out of me, I could just see the bba in my tank thriving  still think this has got to be my favourite scape on here at the mo.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Any chance of a little video?


----------



## George Farmer

Glad you like the new light mate. Delayed gratification...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Gary Nelson said:


> Lovely photo Iain.... I'm looking forward to seeing more of the new bit of kit


cheers gary, more on the light will follow soon.



greenink said:


> Amazing difference. Would love a step-by-step of what he did...


me too mike!



tim said:


> Nice little fish mate, that futura looks frickin awesome, would scare the bejesus out of me, I could just see the bba in my tank thriving  still think this has got to be my favourite scape on here at the mo.


it is fella, also a little concerned especially no there are so few amanos left.  Will see what happens.



Ian Holdich said:


> Any chance of a little video?


inbound.....




George Farmer said:


> Glad you like the new light mate. Delayed gratification...


  very much so George.  Cant stop playing around with the colour temp.  Ive just found one temp that makes the barbs green fleckles really pop but greys the plants a little. 
Have you figured out how to do a live colour change as at the moment i adjust the daycycle curves then up load.... if i just use the colour temp slider it then doesnt transfer onto the day cycle?  Also does yours show the power consumption as mine doesnt??
laters


----------



## Iain Sutherland

IMG_3842 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Little video of the tank, one of the light cycle will follow soon enough….
Few issues to start spring now i have some time, damn BBA!!

As always best in HD


----------



## Alastair

Absolutely stunning pal. The light makes it looks so crisp and clean. Beautiful mate really worth the few zillion pennies.

How do you stop any reflection on the glass. Im seriously struggling with it and its ruining any photos I take or hd vids.  Ive covered the lights with towels and allsorts


----------



## roge21

Stunning tank just have to get me one of them lights they look amazing


----------



## Ady34

Epic mate, still looking stunning even after the issues.....back on it again now though, the futura is looking awesome!


----------



## Gary Nelson

Fantastic little video Iain... The light sure does show the colours off on the fish, tank looks awesome too.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Brilliant! 

That is all...


----------



## Deano3

Simply amazing tank Ian lovely colour and them fish are stunning, so clean and crisp and love the music of the vid really goes well keep up good work, 


Thanks Dean


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:


> Absolutely stunning pal. The light makes it looks so crisp and clean. Beautiful mate really worth the few zillion pennies.
> How do you stop any reflection on the glass. Im seriously struggling with it and its ruining any photos I take or hd vids. Ive covered the lights with towels and allsorts


 
cheers al, with a little luck ill shake the BBA off which is just annoying and trim out the damaged leaves next water change to tidy it all up a bit.  Looking this morning and there is nice new green tips on the moss which had a heavy trim a few days back as most of the sand was covered.... i was a bit too savage in spots 
I turned the light to 100% to film the video and wow, burnt my retina's!  Tank was pearling like mad after about 2 minutes.

No tricks buddy, just film at night with all other lights off.  I know what you mean though as my last tank was the same even at night... could always see myself and the white canon logo on the camera.  Maybe the type of glass makes a difference.  For final shots on barb island i wore black clothes and put some electrical tape over the canon logo which helped a lot, also putting a board between the light and tank to stop spill.   Dont seem to be an issue with this tank though even with day shooting???



roge21 said:


> Stunning tank just have to get me one of them lights they look amazing


 
thanks. the light is amazing but dont kid yourself, the same can be achieved with far less exuberant lighting.



Ady34 said:


> Epic mate, still looking stunning even after the issues.....back on it again now though, the futura is looking awesome!


 

Thanks ady, im hoping it will be back on track soon.  BBA is such a PITA to deal with though, especially in moss.  Im going to try dropping the flow right down and see what happens because as usual its the high flow areas worst effected.   Watch this space... could get far worse quickly 



Gary Nelson said:


> Fantastic little video Iain... The light sure does show the colours off on the fish, tank looks awesome too.


 

hey gary, appreciate the comments as always.  Its nice to know the video is received well and i plan to do many more as now i have imovie cracked its a total doddle putting them together.
Adjusting the futura is a bit of a revelation really, its finding the balance of colour to make the fish and plants pop that is proving a challenge.  It is very noticable in the snakeskins as they were quite dull under the TMC's.

I had also noticed that co2 was reaching pretty high levels in the last 45 minutes or so of it being on so thought id try managing it in a different way.... instead of reducing co2 injection or turning it off earlier i had the light intensity slowly increase by 20% during the last 90 minutes and it worked a treat.
As co2 is such an unknown entity and a pain to manage in larger tanks IME as its tends to build up  due to higher injection rates, its great to  have another means of controlling it.



Ian Holdich said:


> Brilliant!
> That is all...


 

 cheers Ian, you taught me everything i know 



Deano3 said:


> Simply amazing tank Ian lovely colour and them fish are stunning, so clean and crisp and love the music of the vid really goes well keep up good work,
> Thanks Dean


 

Thankyou dean, now i can start getting mine sorted ill have a bit more time to try and help you sort your 'stubborn' tank out.  That thing is bizarre  lol


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Complacency, algae and demotivation...

Self inflicted disaster has stuck, asiain dreams is in an algae ridden mess.
Work has continued to be manic meaning that i havent really been home when the lights have been on and when i was all that time has been spent playing with the 60 (which is doing awesome 
So it seems that somehow the co2 connection on the AM1000 reactor has broken, probably a week or more ago meaning no co2 going into the tank and increased lighting from the futura.
So rookie mistake of being complacent and not looking over the tank most days, turning the lights on today to do a wc and i see the bits of BBA that needed dealing with have spread like wild fire across the tank.
As BBA is such a PITA this is just about the worst thing that could happen, couple with that the fact the moss is riddled makes this a day from hell.
To give a little perspective of how bad it is, i cant see any part of the tank unaffected, fluffy edges to every leaf.

Now i could get totally frustrated by this, dwell on it and end up breaking the tank down which at this moment in time is how i feel, however too much time has been invested into this tank to let it go.

In the spirit of learning etc i will persevere until resolved.  The hardest part is that i still dont have much spare time and in order to get this back on track i need time which i will have to find.

Moving forward...
today i completed a big water change, cut out a fair bit of leaves effected, spot dosed the bucephalandras and cyperus and swopped to an inline atomiser until i can sort the reactor.
Lights have been turned off until i get a plan clear in my head.  As im  not home of an evening until next week i cant see a full co2 cycle until then, i think tomorrow i will have to swop the light cycle over for a morning one as dont want to put the livestock at risk from gassing, then i can can start moving forward.

I hope to be able to add photos as i go along this process, albeit phone pics, so maybe someone can learn from my mistakes.

the plan:  WC every 3 days, would do more if i could but dont have the time (i have to make the RO water each change and 150ltrs is time consuming in its self)  dosing 40ml LC daily (spot dosed) which i avidly tried to avoid using in this tank, filters cleaned along with pipes and a general scrub of all the tank, lights raised a little and intensity dropped to 30% once i get them on again.
I also think ill cut almost all the bolbitus out as it recovers quite quickly and will strip out more cyperus next WC.

Will also take a chance and get 2 SAE's, i just hope they dont start tearing the moss apart or worse... eating it.  that would spell the end of this tank.

All in all, this is likely not a very interesting post for most but i guess im kinda thinking out load here as i get my head around this disappointment.  Just another reminder of how easy it is for high techs to go wrong and how quickly it happens.

Chin up, push on and learn.


----------



## Edvet

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have BBA problems too, they started without obvious reasons and it's easy to get disheartened. Keep fighting!


----------



## Ady34

Bummer mate  
Frustrating isnt the word but im sure youll be able to recover it. IME Crossochelius dont eat moss, i always have one in my tank and it doesnt bother with it. They may not eat existing tufts of bba, that will be manual removal, but they will prevent more growth as they munch the very beginnings i think 

Gum shield in and prepare for round one.....
Cheerio,
Ady


----------



## Alastair

Ahhh no mate.  Bad news sorry to hear that...... im sure youll manage to get on top of it. Too much hard works gone into this beauty.  

Deep breath mate, follow George and do a few ooooomph pressups and try not to get disheartened mate..... 
Much love  fingers crossed.  

Ps agree with ady when I kept siamensis they never bothered eatinf moss


----------



## aliclarke86

Ahh this sucks but if it makes you feel any better I'm in the same boat. Working retail over the Christmas period was non stop!! Add a 6 month old beagle and it doesn't leave much time. So BBA ALL OVER! I have decided to persevere so that I can learn from my actions and hopefully save a few quid!! 

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob P

Iain Sutherland said:


> All in all, this is likely not a very interesting post for most but i guess im kinda thinking out load here as i get my head around this disappointment


 
I think you're wrong, I think (unfortunately at your expense) it offers some (want to word this carefully...) 'insight' to the less experienced among us who can at least see that even people with vast skill and experience can have troubles. Just like when you see George posting about cyano in his latest tank (I mean, where the hell did that go so quickly?!).

Don't get me wrong, I am not for one minute wishing bad luck at your expense and wishing this kind of thing on better scapers, but what will be even more helpful is seeing how you win the battle, as although you guys can get into trouble, you always seem to get out of it quickly, relatively unscathed and stronger than ever.

I'm sure you'll come out of these troubles shining and restore your beautiful tank, very best of luck


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Edvet said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubles. I have BBA problems too, they started without obvious reasons and it's easy to get disheartened. Keep fighting!


 
Im fighting... its just annoying that i know this wouldnt have happened if it wasnt for my job. Im enjoying my new role but its tough to find time for tanks, especially a 4ft one along with having some sort of life. There is something to be said for 60's, maintenance is a doddle, i can water change in 10 minutes.

As much as i hate to think it i may have to consider making the 120 a low tech 'biotope ish' species tank for a while if work carries on the way it is, which is something ive wanted to do for a while anyway. Wont be making any dramatic decisions for a while though. Ive got some algae ass to kick first.



Ady34 said:


> Bummer mate
> Frustrating isnt the word but im sure youll be able to recover it. IME Crossochelius dont eat moss, i always have one in my tank and it doesnt bother with it. They may not eat existing tufts of bba, that will be manual removal, but they will prevent more growth as they munch the very beginnings i think
> Gum shield in and prepare for round one.....
> Cheerio,
> Ady


 
thanks for the confidence ady, good to know about the SAE's, head out tomorrow if i can and find the smallest ones i can.
Ding ding!!



Alastair said:


> Ahhh no mate. Bad news sorry to hear that...... im sure youll manage to get on top of it. Too much hard works gone into this beauty.
> Deep breath mate, follow George and do a few ooooomph pressups and try not to get disheartened mate.....
> Much love  fingers crossed.
> Ps agree with ady when I kept siamensis they never bothered eatinf moss


 
yeah bad luck, i guess i was due some, its not like i hear you complaining and youve had your share a few times over mate.
Deep breath indeed and will need more than a few oooomph's!!



aliclarke86 said:


> Ahh this sucks but if it makes you feel any better I'm in the same boat. Working retail over the Christmas period was non stop!! Add a 6 month old beagle and it doesn't leave much time. So BBA ALL OVER! I have decided to persevere so that I can learn from my actions and hopefully save a few quid!!
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


 
good luck with your fight ali, ill race ya 



Rob P said:


> Don't get me wrong, I am not for one minute wishing bad luck at your expense and wishing this kind of thing on better scapers, but what will be even more helpful is seeing how you win the battle, as although you guys can get into trouble, you always seem to get out of it quickly, relatively unscathed and stronger than ever.


i understand Rob and no one would think you are wishing that on anyone. In the vain of mike (aka greenink) some of the best journals are the ones that tell a story beginning to end with all the drama inbetween.
I hope i can add a little bit to that, although it will be more than likely sporadic and involve poor images from a phone 



I hope i can get out of it quickly, but not betting on it! Moss and BBA are just a nightmare mix as one of the easiest ways of removing existing tufts is LC which also kills moss 
In order to get it out off the moss i will just have to hope the water column dosing of LC is high enough to kill the BBA so the SAE's and few remaining amanos can deal with it... and some very close trimming.

Now a question to all you smart cookies... i seem to remember reading that BBA is less prolific at certain temps and that raising/ lowering the temp helps win the battle..... any ideas or did i dream that??


----------



## Brian Murphy

Sorry to hear of your plight mate, algae is an aquascapers nemisis but also makes us better aquascapers.  On a happier note though, the video was stunning, what I wouldn't give to see my tank pearling away with decent flow and beautiful fish happy in their home.  I'm off to rob the corner shop again, 10 more robberies until I can afford a Giesemann futura lol


----------



## tim

Feel your pain Iain, I've been fighting bba in my 90 for a year on and off mostly due to the up and down hours as a chef and co2 issues, I'm loving my nanos at the mo can fit them in, even before or after a 16 hour shift . You know you can knock this back into shape mate, you had bba in barb island an look how that turned out, this is already another winner


----------



## flygja

You just described the three letters of my middle name  Hang in there. I'm sure you will beat it. I've been fighting BBA and GSA nonstop for about 4 months now. Many times I thought about just rescaping it, but figured its just gonna keep happening if I do. Learning process is more valuable than *anything* in this hobby.


----------



## greenink

Have put one tiny Siamese Algae Eater in my tank and BBA is much better after just 24 hours. Amazing. Why oh why did I not try this before!


----------



## Andy D

Sorry to hear this Iain and I hope you get it all sorted out!


----------



## martinmjr62

Iain,sorry to here the bad news. lifestyles, work and everything else that we all juggle with,don't make this hobby easy sometimes and things like this certainly don't help either.You can and will beat this
Cheers
Martin


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Brian Murphy said:


> Sorry to hear of your plight mate, algae is an aquascapers nemisis but also makes us better aquascapers. On a happier note though, the video was stunning, what I wouldn't give to see my tank pearling away with decent flow and beautiful fish happy in their home. I'm off to rob the corner shop again, 10 more robberies until I can afford a Giesemann futura lol


thanks brian, with a little luck ill get the tank back to a good place and get some more videos, perseverance.



tim said:


> Feel your pain Iain, I've been fighting bba in my 90 for a year on and off mostly due to the up and down hours as a chef and co2 issues, I'm loving my nanos at the mo can fit them in, even before or after a 16 hour shift . You know you can knock this back into shape mate, you had bba in barb island an look how that turned out, this is already another winner


hey tim, bba seems to be the only algae i seem to suffer with.  I thought Barb Island had taught me enough to avoid it and on the whole i think it had, equipment error and ignorance this time round. 



flygja said:


> You just described the three letters of my middle name  Hang in there. I'm sure you will beat it. I've been fighting BBA and GSA nonstop for about 4 months now. Many times I thought about just rescaping it, but figured its just gonna keep happening if I do. Learning process is more valuable than *anything* in this hobby.


thanks for the support, best to stick at it and learn something. BBA sucks though as even when you have fixed the problem it wont go away by itself.



greenink said:


> Have put one tiny Siamese Algae Eater in my tank and BBA is much better after just 24 hours. Amazing. Why oh why did I not try this before!


Hey mike how are you?  i had them once before and just remember they were massively greedy add grew grew really fast.  Add with that how hard it is to catch them especially in a scape with a good amount of wood......



Andy D said:


> Sorry to hear this Iain and I hope you get it all sorted out!


trying mate



martinmjr62 said:


> Iain,sorry to here the bad news. lifestyles, work and everything else that we all juggle with,don't make this hobby easy sometimes and things like this certainly don't help either.You can and will beat this
> Cheers
> Martin


cheers for the support martin


----------



## Iain Sutherland

morning all, time for an update. A little run down of what been happening...

Day 1 and 2
lights have been off for the last 2 days and no feedings, during which time i was dosing 40ml LC twice a day (11am and 11pm) I know this may seem a little odd but ill explain my thinking... when the 60 was neglected it had bba, staghorn and thread algae so i removed all livestock and dosed 20ml twice a day with the lights off. As LC is supposedly only active for 2 hours or so my thinking being you could even do this every 3 or 4 hours, airing on the side of caution for livestock twice a day should be good. 40ml is overdosed but not to crazy. this seemed to work in a few days for the 60 so why not try it on something a little bigger..

Currenly lighting cycle is low, peaking at 40% on red/white and green/white, all blues, warm white and purple peak at 35%. The increase is slow and steady with dimming quickly immediately after the peak.


furura BBA cycle by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

while doing this i have looked over the whole co2 system checking for leaks etc... as it turns out i also had a duff check valve (pics to follow) which had stopping almost all co2 unless at a silly bubble count, this has been replaced and all now seems well.

Ive moved the light cycle to start at 10am (co2 at 7) as of today, its a bit of trial and error as a new method of injection with the inline and will take a couple of days to dial in.
Im running quite high surface movement as when BBA is dying off it causes a lot of organic waste and scum, eheim skim is running 15 mins every hour also.

Day 3
ive come down this morning to find a deep blue DC, not what i was hoping for but hey, having learnt in the past not to panic and whack the co2 up then gas the fish later i will hold fire, wait at least 2 hours into the light period then adjust a small amount and see what happens tomorrow.

Looking today with the lights on after a couple of days it seems the BBA on spot dosed bucephalandras is going pink and it certainly isnt as black in the moss which looks positive. However the cyperus is another thing... even though it was spot dosed out of water during WC it shows the least progress. Will give it a day or two more and see what happens but my current thinking is that as this is at surface levlel no doubt it also has the most changable co2 levels, add to that its close proximity to the light it could be a scrap to move it.

Also have a new Hanna PH meter turn up yesterday but missed the postie, good timing as will very very handly the next few days.

Adios


----------



## Ady34

I know youve beaten bba before in Barb Island Iain, but just as a little inspiration for light at the end of the tunnel here's Tony Swinney fighting the same battle and winning in 'Peacocks Crypt'! 

From this: 


Tony Swinney said:


> Re: Tonsers 200L Optiwhite
> 
> Well, its been a while  Life has been getting in the way of aquatics in general, and journal updating in particular, but things are getting back on track now, so I thought I'd update this one
> 
> Having been away for 5 weeks at the start of the year, the tank was rather neglected in terms on maintenance, with just the automated water changes taking place. A such it had got rather overgrown, the E Tennelus in particular had gone rampant ! Unfortunately the BBA has also gone rampant, so that is the main issue to resolve. We've been discussing it on my discus tank thread, as I have it in there too  . The BBA discussion is here:
> 
> 320l Discus tank, becoming planted ! | UK Aquatic Plant Society
> 
> I did a quick trim on the stems, and pulled a load of E Tennelus runners out as soon as I got back from my trip, then this weekend I spent alot of time clearing things out. This was the tank before I started on Saturday morning...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a close up of the disgusting gravel...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the Flying Foxes which have been drafted in to devour the BBA...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and by Sunday evening, this was the tank. I've removed all the crypt parva and e ennelus leaves with BBA on, aswell as some of the mosses with it. I vacummed all of the Aquasail whihc had drifted out onto the sand, and removed most of the graded gravels which seemed particularly prone to BBA. I also trimmed the stems back a bit, and added some more peacock moss on the main branch - this stuff grows really nicely in this tank
> 
> The BBA on the redmoor branches is really tough to remove - I plucked it and that worked abit. I shaved it with an old razor and that worked on the smoother branches, and I dosed it with Excel which should help, but there are alot of cherry shrimp in there so I dont want to overdose it too much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to perservere with the Excel on the BBA everyday. I might still try a blackout too. In terms of stopping the BBA coming back, I've upped the CO2 a little so the DC is on the yellow side of limey coloured, and I've added a couple of Koralias too to make sure the flow is good.
> 
> Updates more regularly from now on, I promise !
> 
> Tony


 
.....To this: 



Tony Swinney said:


> Re: Tonys 'Peacocks Crypt' - 200L
> 
> A long overdue update (again ! )
> 
> The mosses had all outgrown their holdings and were floating up off the roots, so they have all come out for now. I'm growing some new stuff, but I'm quite liking the 'lighter' look of the tank right now so may not use it in here.
> 
> The Balansae has done really well ( it had good provenence being from Graemes 'Bones of the Earth' 8) ), and has taken over as the focal point in the tank. I love this plant as it moves around so much in the flow, so the tank is always changing. The Bolbitis is doing OK, but grows incredibly slowly in here so when theres an algae attack (theres a bit of BBA in there right now (again)) the leaves suffer.
> 
> Anyhows a couple of pics from this morning. I may be stripping this down soon as I have a new cabinet arriving for it, and will have a new light to hang above it too 8) , but I'll be sad to see it go  But excited to do something new
> 
> Tony


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Thanks Ady, it's nice to see how BBA should be dealt with, fine job tony did with it to.
Looking at Tony's images mine definitely isn't quite that bad and most should be manageable, difficult bit will be the mosses. 

Popped out to try and find some SAE's but no luck, just 2 giants at MA.  Hopefully have some coming in early doors next week. 

Just to add to the woes it seems the up inline I pop on also has a leak around the barb... Will swop it for another tomorrow. 

So co2 has been on since 7, doc is now dark green which is no good. Upped the bubble count a little and see what happens tomorrow. Will also run ph tests..

Faulty check valve




Going pink




Cyprus, nice to see the blyxa aubertii going red though under the new lights... 








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----------



## Tony Swinney

Hi Iain.  I know full well ( as can be seen above - thanks Ady  ) how frustrating BBA can be once it gets hold.  When i got it in the tank above, it was about the same circumstances - work got too busy and I didn't keep an eye on things, and let things slip.  This seems to be a fairly regular occurrence for me   Don't get down with it,  the mosses will recover even if you trim them back hard to clear the BBA.  You might even see something new in the scape as it regrows that makes it better - I did 

Of course you could just jack it all in and flog me the Futura 

Tony


----------



## plantbrain

Rob P said:


> I think you're wrong, I think (unfortunately at your expense) it offers some (want to word this carefully...) 'insight' to the less experienced among us who can at least see that even people with vast skill and experience can have troubles. Just like when you see George posting about cyano in his latest tank (I mean, where the hell did that go so quickly?!).
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am not for one minute wishing bad luck at your expense and wishing this kind of thing on better scapers, but what will be even more helpful is seeing how you win the battle, as although you guys can get into trouble, you always seem to get out of it quickly, relatively unscathed and stronger than ever.
> 
> I'm sure you'll come out of these troubles shining and restore your beautiful tank, very best of luck


 

True. Amano has issues still with algae, so does the ADA store here. Some rather bad stuff. I really have not had any real issues over the last few years, I go looking for issues though and help others.
I work on seeing if I can prevent BBA and other algae over long time frames, or taking BBA covered plants and add them to a non CO2 tank etc.

Some suggest organic loading might be another cause..... but if you clean and do a good basic job with water changes, this is easily ruled out.
The rest is CO2.

Buce and Cyperus are pretty susceptible to BBA also. Moss? Not much at all, but moss getting BBA is telling about CO2, moss does well/best when CO2 is good.
Lots of shrimp helps also on keeping BBA off many items in the tank.

I spent 3 years before I really got a good handle on BBA. Amano said it took him 10 years. Yikes!


----------



## TOO

Interesting thoughts on BBA there. I have it and have had it for a while now, not bad, but requiring continuous manual removal and spot dosing. I can say for sure bioload is not a cause. Very few fish, 2x60% wc a week, monthly filter clean. So that leaves co2. But feel (not good enough, I know) that going higher will affect fish (makes me think of a Lou Reed song: "to cure you they must kill you..."). Should perhaps try this route anyway. My BBA is civilized enough to stay away from plants, but really likes my Yamaya stone. The new generation should come with some kind of nano coating . The fight goes on. But hey, if it took Amano ten years...I do not like this calculation, though. Sorry Iain for slightly hijacking here, but thanks for opening this topic. As Rob says, kind of reassuring to see the pros suffering too.

Thomas


----------



## plantbrain

TOO, yes, CO2, perhaps lowing light might also make the demand for CO2 lower, thereby making management easier. Root issue seems to be CO2 though in your case/,most cases on some level if the basics are being done.
Adding more Amano shrimp can help a lot also to stop new growth, that's what you should look at for algae and plants to make assessments.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Tony Swinney said:


> You might even see something new in the scape as it regrows that makes it better - I did
> Of course you could just jack it all in and flog me the Futura
> Tony


Hi tony, thanks for the encouragement, its really good to see the link of your BBA dramas as shines a little light at the end of the tunnel. Heres hoping for a successful outcome.. things look a little better already.
Ok cool £50 and ill pay p&p?


I hope im not still struggling with BBA in 10 years tom, its unlikely ill fully understand but hope i have a handle on avoiding it at least.
This time round i think its been a combination of losing most of my amanos (60 odd) a few weeks back from what i think was copper and the co2 failing on me. The tank is kept pretty clean as i saw a marked improvement with BBA in the last tank when it was as clean as possible, quite difficult when hardscape is arranged in a way that make cleaning difficult.
I believe this comes from experience and is often overlooked by people with just a few years experience like myself.... design your scape to make cleaning easy!!




TOO said:


> As Rob says, kind of reassuring to see the pros suffering too.


Im no pro, im learning like the everyone else on here. Im happy to share my woes with all if it helps you in anyway.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Day 5

Reactor is now fixed and back running, very glad as i really dislike inlines.... obviously the misting is annoying but mainly just because reactors seem to work so much better, i find it easier to balance co2 with livestock.

Added 4 tiny SAE's, they arent doing much at the moment but know it can take a few days to settle.  Having the co2 a little high this morning no doubt didnt help.

Have been running a ph timeline today, pretty rough but does show whats happening in the tank.  I need to get it dialled in pretty quick as i know BBA loves fluctuating levels.

00.00 - 6.7
7am - co2 on
9am -  5.65 - light start ramping up.  This is too quick a drop and fauna, while not gasping, are skittish. Lift the outlets a little for 30 mins to off gas some and dial back the co2 a tad.
10am - 5.77
12.30pm - 5.75
1pm - 5.62 - light intensity reaching peak around 1-3pm
3pm - 5.75 - co2 off

Looking at the numbers it shows a pattern that looks ok, id like to see the ph drop a little slower tomorrow morning now ive dialled the co2 back a bit, im not too worried about it being perfect at lights on as the leds ramp up over a few hours.

Still dosing LC daily but just 20ml now.  
Generally things look a little better, seeing green tips on the moss after trimming out the BBA which is positive.
Im seriously tempted to try cutting all the cyperus off at substrate level and seeing how well it comes back... its certainly reducing flow to one end of the tank now its so tall.  I reckon it would come back in 4-6 weeks..?

It would be a drastic move but figure i may learn something from it....  anyone with experience trimming cyperus like this??


----------



## Tim Harrison

Bummer...me too...that is my Iwagumi - Primordial - got smothered. I took my eye of the ball for a second and BAM! it came in from nowhere...and paradoxically it started, and then became worse, in the highest areas of flow and CO2 distribution. I don't have your patience, I tore it down today and gave the plants an Excel bath. I've no experience of trimming cyperus but my dwarf hairgrass didn't like it at all and it just made things worse. Anyway, you're not suffering alone buddy, and with persistence I'm sure it won't be too long before you win out.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

oh no troi, primordial was looking awesome, a cracking scape.  Thats a real shame, i guess with low plant mass then BBA and his algal friends will set in pretty quick.

BBA always seems to be worst in high flow areas, im not sure why this is but clive advocates that where poor/low co2 is the main factor with most algae, BBA can be easily triggered by fluctuating co2 (thats not to say that poor/low co2 wont cause it as).  I would certainly advocate this and maybe suggest that those fluctuations are greatest where the highest turn over of water is??? those areas are also usually the ones that are directly in the line of fire from inlines/reactors???  purely speculating though and it makes sense in my head 

There seems to be a lot of people suffering at the moment, the silly season means tanks were being neglected i imagine.


----------



## aliclarke86

Hunting season is open. Shhhhhhh! I'm hunting BBA 

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## plantbrain

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hi tony, thanks for the encouragement, its really good to see the link of your BBA dramas as shines a little light at the end of the tunnel. Heres hoping for a successful outcome.. things look a little better already.
> Ok cool £50 and ill pay p&p?
> 
> 
> I hope im not still struggling with BBA in 10 years tom, its unlikely ill fully understand but hope i have a handle on avoiding it at least.
> This time round i think its been a combination of losing most of my amanos (60 odd) a few weeks back from what i think was copper and the co2 failing on me. The tank is kept pretty clean as i saw a marked improvement with BBA in the last tank when it was as clean as possible, quite difficult when hardscape is arranged in a way that make cleaning difficult.
> I believe this comes from experience and is often overlooked by people with just a few years experience like myself.... design your scape to make cleaning easy!!
> 
> 
> 
> Im no pro, im learning like the everyone else on here. Im happy to share my woes with all if it helps you in anyway.


 


If you lost 60 Amanos, and had a CO2 issue, that right there is the problem.
The bloom occurs, then you need to really work to get it back, add algae eaters back etc.
Once the bloom happens, then you need correct things 1st, THEN kill what is there.
Otherwise you waste a lot of time and energy and it just grows right back.

So experience does help there, but..........watching the tank, watching the growth of plants, caring for livestock..........this is not some specific one thing, it's a multitude of factors often times.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Iain Sutherland said:


> oh no troi, primordial was looking awesome, a cracking scape. Thats a real shame, i guess with low plant mass then BBA and his algal friends will set in pretty quick.
> 
> BBA always seems to be worst in high flow areas, im not sure why this is but clive advocates that where poor/low co2 is the main factor with most algae, BBA can be easily triggered by fluctuating co2 (thats not to say that poor/low co2 wont cause it as). I would certainly advocate this and maybe suggest that those fluctuations are greatest where the highest turn over of water is??? those areas are also usually the ones that are directly in the line of fire from inlines/reactors??? purely speculating though and it makes sense in my head
> 
> There seems to be a lot of people suffering at the moment, the silly season means tanks were being neglected i imagine.


 

Maybe you're right...when I think about it, it all started with being away for a week which also coincided with the need for a cylinder change, and if that weren't bad enough complacency, and wilful neglect. So therein lies the answer...I'm sure with a little TLC you'll get it back.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Day 6

things are continuing to look better and the SAE's are now nibbling away which will help.

PH this morning had dropped from 6.7 co2 off to 6.0 at lights on, DC lime green and livestock acting normal until i walk up to the tank. Think they are holding a grudge for neglecting them!!
Mostly seeing a reduction on leaved plants but the moss looks pretty much the same, truth is that some BBA will likely remain and new moss growth will mean its not visible. Assuming that the issues are sorted this isn't a problem as it shouldn't spread.

So tomorrow is another maintenance day and following some advise i will strip out a lot of the cyperus by pulling away the outer older leaves from the base of the plant. This leaves the 'heart' in tact to regrow from. Flow is certainly reduced in the back right corner and the ulvaceus hasn't been thriving for a while now.
Lots more lessons to be learnt, one being something i already new but obviously chose to ignore.... maintain plants weekly! I shouldn't let them get so long and dense that flow is compromised and have other things to deal with because of it. When i look at pristine tanks like george's i believe that can only be achieved by doing this... little and often.	That right there is the issue with glass lids..... you 'bank' things to do in the tank rather than quickly dipping in.

Anyway waffling... adios


----------



## sanj

Glass lids save lives.


----------



## plantbrain

Troi said:


> Maybe you're right...when I think about it, it all started with being away for a week which also coincided with the need for a cylinder change, and if that weren't bad enough complacency, and wilful neglect. So therein lies the answer...I'm sure with a little TLC you'll get it back.


 

Hell, this same thing happens to many of us if not all.
If not today, then just wait and stay in the hobby longer, it surly will.
Seen it happen to folks that made the top IAPLC 20.
It'll happen to me and to you as well.

Correct the issue, see where you went wrong. Try to avoid it the next time.


----------



## Westyggx

Feel your pain Ian, I stopped dosing for a few weeks. Staurgyne carpet died off and I guess it caused an algae bloom, had bba ever since and I'm now fighting to get rid of it!


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## Iain Sutherland

Been brutal, tank looks like it did 6 months ago...






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## aliclarke86

Needs must and all that mate

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## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> Been brutal, tank looks like it did 6 months ago...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ouch


----------



## Iain Sutherland

So work is still interfering with scaping and as such i haven't water changed since the last post, thankfully with daily LC dosing, having fixed the issues and the SAE's doing there thing it is looking ok.  A week of water changes and love would help no end though.
BBA is present but in the background, moss is growing back in nicely in its more bushy higher light form and whole tank pearls within an hour of lights.


SAE by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


puntius denisonii by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


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## Iain Sutherland

gave this some love today, thinned a lot of plants and cut the moss so a little cloudy.

 I got bored of changing the floss in the filter a while ago so decided to try it without, taking the purigen out at the same time as it has been in there since start up.
2080 is just pre-filter sponge and alfogrog, e1501 just stock sponge and algagrog. 
Its been like that for 4 weeks now and the only real difference is that it takes 2 days to clear after waterchange.  After that its almost as clear as with floss and purigen. Id still add both before wanting some proper images but day to day its fine.


IMG_4185 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

I also changed the filters round so there is more flow at the back right now which was suffering some flow issue.  Will see if it helps over the next week or so.


----------



## Rob P

Looks good to me Iain  i found the same with floss, swore it was keeping the clear look but after removing it no noticeable difference. However, i have put floss back in as stripping out a load of the media only accentuated washing machine type flow lol


----------



## aliclarke86

I've not used floss for ages. If clogs after about 2 days for me. Get home from work to a filter doing nothing..... I think my water looks fine 

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## Iain Sutherland

So im now noticing the difference of no floss or purigen... day to day im more than happy with it but it does make clear images more difficult.  So next filter maintenance certainly the purigen will go back in.

Well im pretty much back on track, flow is far better and the right hand side is picking up daily.  Still have some BBA in the moss on the rocks which ill keep trimming out and it isnt too noticeable apart from after the moss has been trimmed back.  All in all im pretty happy with the state of the tank at the moment and it should only improve now i have a few weeks clear of chaos to give it additional love.


IMG_4200 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


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## Iain Sutherland

Again, no time or inclination for this for weeks now... Has been an ugly beast for a while but will throw in a little effort and maybe get an image for iaplc...
Eek







Gave it a scrub today, quick sunset iphone pic 




Will dust off the camera sometime.



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## Deano3

amazing what a little tlc can do, how's life still hectic ? hope you get back on track mate

Dean


----------



## Iain Sutherland

couple of quick pics

some work to do before end of the month for IAPLC...
IMG_4299 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

love these little dudes, awesome schoolers...
IMG_4305 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr

Barbs are really happy now live food season is back.
IMG_4325 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


----------



## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> couple of quick pics
> 
> some work to do before end of the month for IAPLC...
> IMG_4299 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr
> 
> love these little dudes, awesome schoolers...
> IMG_4305 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr
> 
> Barbs are really happy now live food season is back.
> IMG_4325 by iainsutherland24, on Flickr



Beautiful mate. Really really nice.. Doesn't look like there's any water in it too

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## Iain Sutherland

Well i found some time late last night to do a final pic for IAPLC, tank is in no way tidy or top health so dont hold much hope for a better result than last year, the up side being i did get a chance to do some movie clips i just threw together.
Excuse the dodgy angles and panning, was just trying stuff out...

may not be published yet but heres the link...

see further down...


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## ADA

Awesome, truly beautiful tank, what's the tall grassy plant?


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## Iain Sutherland

Thanks, main one is cyperus helferi but the only remaining blyxa aubertii has gone bananas and is huge now.


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## Lee Sweeting

Awesome!! Good luck with the comp Iain. 


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## Andy D

Still shows video unavailable. Anyone else getting this?

Maybe I am too impatient!


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## Alastair

Yup same here mate


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## Iain Sutherland

Me too, stupid thing I've had nothing but a headache with this video... I'll try again after work. 
Ooh the suspense! Lol


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## Andy D

Yeah, it better be good now!


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## Iain Sutherland

Andy D said:


> Yeah, it better be good now!


Haha don't get you hopes up!
won't upload at the moment..? 
Will sort it tomorrow.

Just realised the tank is just passed it's one year birthday too, I have to say I'll never try maintaining a moss tank for 12 months again!! 

Anyway, apologies, birthday video tomorrow  


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## Iain Sutherland

video now live...


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## Lee Sweeting

A real testament to your skills, absolutely stunning. 


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## tim

Superb Iain, got to be my favourite tank this year just on fish selection alone, looks superb mate.


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## Andy D

Worth the wait! It looks great!


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## Edvet

Great video (very wel put together) and great tank. (the only problem i have with it are the denisonii's, they grow to large for this tank, and even if you wont get them to this size in this tank they bother me, but i am strange that way)


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## Gary Nelson

It looks stunning Iain! A fantastic video and the fish look superb too...! One thing I notice though, is you have very little movement from the plants in the flow, yet they are pearling like crazy?


----------



## tim

Gary Nelson said:


> It looks stunning Iain! A fantastic video and the fish look superb too...! One thing I notice though, is you have very little movement from the plants in the flow, yet they are pearling like crazy?


Iain's a disciple of amano Gary, unreal skills IMO.


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## Antoni

Wonderful, my friend. Simply wonderful!!!

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## BigTom

So somehow I managed to miss 90 percent of this journal,  which was my loss! Lovely video Iain, that little nook on the right of the tank is a great touch. The denisoni and sidthimunki look great too.


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## ADA

When people say nature aquarium, this is what they really mean, the mixture of plants and the layout looks truly natural, amazing scape.


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## Tim Harrison

Wopping...awesome Iain, glad you managed to get it back on track...


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## Alastair

Gary Nelson said:


> It looks stunning Iain! A fantastic video and the fish look superb too...! One thing I notice though, is you have very little movement from the plants in the flow, yet they are pearling like crazy?



Flows been turned down Gary whilst iains recording. Gets the fish out much more too and you see loads more pearling. 

Fantastic video Iain. Beautiful tank. Hope this stays running a little longer 

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## Iain Sutherland

tim said:


> Superb Iain, got to be my favourite tank this year just on fish selection alone, looks superb mate.


thanks tim, ive honestly loved the fish mix.  The rhombos are a real fav, im sad to see them go.


Andy D said:


> Worth the wait! It looks great!


even with the dodgy panning!


Lee Sweeting said:


> A real testament to your skills, absolutely stunning.


much appreciated but dont know about that mate, watch it a few times in HD and there are a bunch of obvious issues.


Edvet said:


> Great video (very wel put together) and great tank. (the only problem i have with it are the denisonii's, they grow to large for this tank, and even if you wont get them to this size in this tank they bother me, but i am strange that way)


ICheers edvet, but they make good eating too 


Gary Nelson said:


> It looks stunning Iain! A fantastic video and the fish look superb too...! One thing I notice though, is you have very little movement from the plants in the flow, yet they are pearling like crazy?


As Al has said later, was filmed with all gear removed for a final image, the plants pearl in minutes when the giesemann is turned up 100% for pics. normal running is 40%


tim said:


> Iain's a disciple of amano Gary, unreal skills IMO.


i wish....


Antoni said:


> Wonderful, my friend. Simply wonderful!!!


Cheers Ant, your opinion means a lot.


BigTom said:


> So somehow I managed to miss 90 percent of this journal, which was my loss! Lovely video Iain, that little nook on the right of the tank is a great touch. The denisoni and sidthimunki look great too.


Its their hidey hole Tom, wish i could say it was planned...


ADA said:


> When people say nature aquarium, this is what they really mean, the mixture of plants and the layout looks truly natural, amazing scape.


Love you ADA, even though i never had the skill or time time to get it where i wanted im glad it is more nature than diorama (amazing dedication non the less.)


Troi said:


> Wopping...awesome Iain, glad you managed to get it back on track...


not quite fella, buces never recovered not too sure why?


Alastair said:


> Flows been turned down Gary whilst iains recording. Gets the fish out much more too and you see loads more pearling
> Fantastic video Iain. Beautiful tank. Hope this stays running a little longer


steal my credit lol 
too right, no flow for images and the tank hasnt pearled in months day to day.
Break down in the next few weeks, got an idea but not sure it will work.  Will have to consult Ed, Al etc...[DOUBLEPOST=1401499660][/DOUBLEPOST]I know i said it on the previous tank but im still amazed and enthused by all the feedback from all you guys.  I really find it humbling from a tank that clearly doesnt have the touch of the masters.
I hope the next one will be as enjoyable (said through gritted teeth from 12 months of moss maintenance)


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## Ian Holdich

Wow my friend! Just wow...this is a masterpiece. Very well executed Iain. Great video.


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## Iain Sutherland

hey buddy, thanks.   happy to see your still around the site, even as a spectator


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## NatureBoy

superb, easily up there with the best of them oozes vitality and freshness.


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## Iain Sutherland

Cheers nature, I've really enjoyed this tank and will be genuinely sad to take it down...
Had a few minutes spare so had a play with the new rocks....



Time to start looking for some wood.


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## Robert H. Tavera

When i saw you vid, I feel in china lol realy natural and relaxing, good luck in IAPLC.
I love p.denisonii, but i'm afraid to come home and see this expensive fish at the floor !! have you had any issue with this?
wow, let's see what you can do with those rocks !!


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## Iain Sutherland

Hey Robert, glad you like the video.
I had one jumper when I started this tank but having the Perspex on over the corners stopped it. 
They are amazing fish but do get big, luckily I have a new home lined up for them already in a 6ft.


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## aliclarke86

You really pulled this one back from the brink mate and the rhombo's look so happy in there!! 

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## aliclarke86

Do you know where your pH sits in this one Iian?

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## Iain Sutherland

Hey Ali, its recovered pretty well but the buces are still unhappy dropping more leaves than they grow.
If youd like some more rhomobo's they're currently seeking a home for the cost of posting 
Ph is 6.8 resting, dropping to 5.9-6 during co2.


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## aliclarke86

How many do you have mate?

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## Iain Sutherland

Im not 100%  but im fairly sure a dozen.


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## aliclarke86

I would be honoured mate

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## Pedro Rosa

Ian, great vídeo and fantastic fish.
Really enjoyed the ambient you created with the soundtrack


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## Ady34

Stunning mate, and easily up there with the best, it really does inspire a true NA feel.
Good luck with the next set up mate, will be following for sure 
Cheerio,
Ady


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## Iain Sutherland

Thanks Pedro, glad you enjoyed.

Hey Ady, thanks for the kind words, just been down to eds and had a really tough time choosing wood for the new one.. Too much choice!!






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## Alastair

Iain Sutherland said:


> Thanks Pedro, glad you enjoyed.
> 
> Hey Ady, thanks for the kind words, just been down to eds and had a really tough time choosing wood for the new one.. Too much choice!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oooooo didnt know ed rode a bike,

Ps did your credit card melt 

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## Iain Sutherland

hes just bought a new 1000cc as well that was a beast.

only a little, prices are always good though mate... itching to pull this one down now and get scaping!!


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## Iain Sutherland

They thought it was all over... It is now...





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## aliclarke86

That was quick!!!

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## Iain Sutherland

Cheeky bugger, I was up at 8 haha
It's a crappy messy job breaking a tank down after a year, keen to get the hard scape in tomorrow and try a few things out.
Will be looking to mail the rhombos later in the week Ali if that suits? 


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## aliclarke86

Haha I know. I took down my mini m 2 days ago that took me 2 hours  Yeah I am only at home on Thursday mind working 8 till 7 the rest of the week 

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## Deano3

looking forward to next one Iain


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## Iain Sutherland

IAPLC 2014 
Asian Dreams came in at 251 which i was quite happy with.
So to finish this journal off here is one of the images..

iaplc 14 framed by iainsutherland24, on Flickr


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## ADA

Awesome scape mate and 251 not bad at all, quick couple of questions, where do you get your wood and substrate?


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## Iain Sutherland

Thanks fella, tend to get my hardscape from ed at freshwatershrimp. Always a good selection.


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## Edvet

Grats!


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## ADA

Cool, what about substrate?


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## Iain Sutherland

Hmmm, tried a few, current one is gravel with tropica... Going ok but can't knock the results of Amazonia.  Want to try Oliver knott's or tropicas new one next.


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## ADA

Ahhh I see, I was wondering where you get the natural aquario stuff from lol, it's something I never heard of and thought I might try.


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## Iain Sutherland

It sucked, nuf' said.


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