# Female fishkeepers and aquascapers...



## NA-Fan (24 Mar 2013)

Hello all,

Is it me or are there only a tiny fraction of female hobbyists?

I wonder why this is and if there's anything we can do to address this imbalance!

I can't think of any female well-known aquascapers. Are there any?

How many female Ukaps members do we have?

Thanks,
Laura (female)


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (24 Mar 2013)

Hello Laura,

Im not being sexist or anything (famous last words!)  but this hobby is more of a 'getting your hands dirty' kind of thing than many other hobbys or pet keeping.

In my view women, although hard working! (Save!) Don't particularly like digging around in Gravel or soil with them nice manicured nails  

Talking from experience, my girlfriend loves (or probably has had to come to love..)  Fish and shrimp alike, as soon as i take one OUT of the water, she ends up stuck to the opposite wall of the room. Particularly when I have the Amano shrimp crawling across my arm 

I know what you mean though, would be nice to see. Bet theres lots with the artistic  potential to make fantastic aquascapes.. Even though they'll probably need a little help with the hardware


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## John S (24 Mar 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Hello Laura,
> 
> Im not being sexist or anything (famous last words!) but this hobby is more of a 'getting your hands dirty' kind of thing than many other hobbys or pet keeping.
> 
> In my view women, although hard working! (Save!) Don't particularly like digging around in Gravel or soil with them nice manicured nails


 
 I hope you've got a tin hat on Nath 

I have noticed in the last couple of years that there are definitely more females buying aquatic products and fish in shops. Before then I found it quite uncommon to see women in aquatic places. Some of the other forums I browse seem to have quite a few female members.


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## BIN578 (24 Mar 2013)

There are a few female aquarists nowadays, but as Nat says, its more the sort of hobby that appeals to males.  Thats neither a good or a bad thing in my mind.  People must choose their hobby as they see fit.  I certainly dont see it as something that we "need to address the balance" about though.  It is what it is.


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## NatureBoy (24 Mar 2013)

I'm handing this one over to my girlfriend for a laugh!

"Dear Macho Nathaniel and co, I am amazed to read some of the comments. No wonder there isn't any girls here, if it's to be patronized by wannabee Takashi Amanos! Many girls are into the hobby, we just have a LIFE and don't spend hours on the UKAPS forum trying to get advice and solve issues about our tanks that can be fixed by a simple google search...

I consider myself as a girly-girl who likes to have my nails manicured and YET I'm not afraid to put them in the water or mud. Women also go out and walk in the forest and other muddy environments nowadays without being afraid to have some mud on their high heels... We are in 2013 with women doing what you would classify as 'manly jobs'. In other words, you guys need to see the bigger picture and stop limiting the fishing hobby to the _blogging_ about fish hobby.

One thing you are right about is that we definitely are creative and maybe here lies the pressure on you guys. Do not dare us to take over, you might regret it and see how we kick ass! 

To all the girls on here, don't put up with this attitude as it surely limits this forum to a narrow-minded backward thinking subset of our great aquascaping hobby!!

Many thanks,
Myriam - aka Nature girl"


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## Lindy (24 Mar 2013)

Ahem.I'm female(at least I was last time I looked) But then I've always worked with animals one way or another and had a dog grooming salon before I had my daughter. You either like getting your hands dirty or not and have an interest in nature/life or(sadly) not. Women quite often make me cringe but then alot of men are quite useless too.
To be honest I don't think gender necessarily needs to be brought up on the forum and your gender doesn't need to define you. I've no idea of the gender of many people I 've conversed with on this site, I'm just happy to meet some like minded folk who aren't limited to talking about soaps, celebrities and hair I like cars too....


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (24 Mar 2013)

I think Myriam got the wrong end of the stick, as I'm definitely all for it.

But, if we didn't talk about issues on UKAPS, there wouldn't be much on google 

There is a lot of useless men, your right there, and hats off to the women who push them out the way to get dirty


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## Martin cape (24 Mar 2013)

I like dirty girls


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## Ian Holdich (24 Mar 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> Ahem.I'm female(at least I was last time I looked) But then I've always worked with animals one way or another and had a dog grooming salon before I had my daughter. You either like getting your hands dirty or not and have an interest in nature/life or(sadly) not. Women quite often make me cringe but then alot of men are quite useless too.
> To be honest I don't think gender necessarily needs to be brought up on the forum and your gender doesn't need to define you. I've no idea of the gender of many people I 've conversed with on this site, I'm just happy to meet some like minded folk who aren't limited to talking about soaps, celebrities and hair I like cars too....



And I think your aquascapes are great! Better than some of the boys!


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## kirk (24 Mar 2013)

Who knows what gender we are on forum other that tecky people or maybe the mods? Some people probably on here don't have a tank   I Iknow of quite a few shops that ladies run and keep tanks at home and breed fish.. My wife has a good eye for the scaping and i always encourage her imput into our fish tank that why I try to call it ours rather than my.. Women can multi task and probably have less confessions for the confession thread. They can probably do a water change go of to do the hovering and remember they are siphoning the tank unlike me..


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## Lindy (24 Mar 2013)

> There is a lot of useless men, your right there, and hats off to the women who push them out the way to get dirty


LOL..



> And I think your aquascapes are great! Better than some of the boys!


Thanks very much!


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## jojouk (24 Mar 2013)

kap k said:


> They can probably do a water change go of to do the hovering and remember they are siphoning the tank unlike me..



Nope...last weekend I forgot, I had 1/3 or tank water left when I remembered...oops!


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## Kurlilox (25 Mar 2013)

New female member here and this is my first post 
I have been in the hobby now for 30 years and at one point had a fish hut with around 25 tanks.
I used to love going out there and sitting watching the fish for hours, tinkering about keeping everything ship shape, managed to breed Angels, hoplos, cories, bristle nose and a few types of rainbows. 
Now I am looking forward to the challenge of a proper planted tank as I have never tried it yet.
Wish me luck lol !


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

Any post that starts With" I'm not xx xx But" is never going to go well  don't know how it stacks up but the vast majority of science programs I've watched today have had some attractive girly looking women swimming with sharks and wandering around in swamps. I don't think I know many women who have hobbies generally, if I think of most people in my bubble as a cross section I van think of something most men do in there spare time, can't really think of anything the women do. Most women I know just chill when they're not busy. I think kids has a lot to do with it. Blokes seem to want to do something in their spare time usually.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

Kurlilox said:


> New female member here and this is my first post
> I have been in the hobby now for 30 years and at one point had a fish hut with around 25 tanks.
> I used to love going out there and sitting watching the fish for hours, tinkering about keeping everything ship shape, managed to breed Angels, hoplos, cories, bristle nose and a few types of rainbows.
> Now I am looking forward to the challenge of a proper planted tank as I have never tried it yet.
> Wish me luck lol !


Welcome mate, if you need any help with technical stuff or parking the car nath will be only happy to help.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (25 Mar 2013)

No dusting or cleaning dishes though!


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## Lindy (25 Mar 2013)

> attractive girly looking women swimming with sharks and wandering around in swamps.


I take it the effect would have been different if they had been hairy knuckle draggers of a female sort? I can't say anything, I like my eyecandy too. Bear Grylls isn't too shabby...


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> I take it the effect would have been different if they had been hairy knuckle draggers of a female sort?


Just pointing out that women can like to get dirty and involved in that sort of thing and still be "eye candy" in fact, some of the presenters were more attractive to me because I could have talked to them forever  Big fan of bear myself but not for your reasons  I love his positive attitude and outlook on life that never seems to falter.
I'm probably just as guilty of generalising as anyone here, using my circle of people has a ref point. If I was say studying biology at Uni then I guess I would have a different outlook where most women I knew would rather be down and dirty and my male mates weren't. Just because a women likes keeping fish doesn't always mean they don't like shopping for clothes and getting their nails done. Am I digging a deeper hole here 
On balance I just don't think a lot of women have hobbies and if they do they tend to be something more practical like fitness training or sports. Men are more selfish and tend to have their thing that they do just to make that mundane life a little bit more interesting.
I am of the old skool unfortunately and firmly believe that men and women ARE different, always have been and always will be and that's a good thing IMO. I don't however think that either are less capable of anything, everything comes down to individuality. At my place I have office staff that if a pallet of plasterboards turned up which are 35kg each I wouldn't expect them to start hand balling them into the unit. I also have a friends son working with me with learning difficulties who does a couple of days a week for me and a couple for his dads building firm, he gets paid the same as everyone else but I wouldn't expect to leave him on site and finish a job of for me. Having said that he is the most hard working man (16y.o) I have and never complains. If there was true equality they would be running them boards in and my man would be getting dropped of at jobs and would expect them finished when I got back. On the other hand there is also my missus who burns away my credit card on clothes I can't afford for her and my daughter and pink things who would hand ball them plaster boards into my lock up just to prove a point. I once came home from working away to find she had stripped the wall paper off the stairwell using only a pair of steps and a plank  We're all different and that's what makes us the same. One Love!
I think that it distracts from the OP which was.....


> I wonder why this is and if there's anything we can do to address this imbalance!
> 
> I can't think of any female well-known aquascapers. Are there any?


 
The answer to that I don't know, I can't think of any reasons there would be in imbalance. Perhaps the more women get into it the more will. I can't think of many well known well known scapers either probably for the reason above. Hopefully that will change. Maybe we should start up a dating section in the board for like minded people You would have to have two tanks though, my missus has no interest in mine but if she did she best stay away from it.
The great philosopher Al Murray has a great outlook on it, "women are special in so many ways and much better at everything they do than men, they are Angels, which is why they should stay in the house; and while they're there it wouldn't do any harm to do a bit of hoovering"
"Beer for the men and wine, a fruit based alcoholic beverage for the ladies"
 
And in the interests of balance here's some modern day men for ya.


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## Lindy (25 Mar 2013)

Mr Average I would have to agree with you on a few points, Bears enthusiasm and lust for life is the most engaging thing about him. I also gave up work to be a stay at home mum, I didn't see the point in having a baby and then handing it over to someone else to raise. This is why I got back into tanks, it was something to stop me going completely mental as previously my work had been my passion and hobby all rolled into one. When my family is older I may go back to my other hobbies.
My husband also has a hobby which helps take his mind off work which is hard when you have your own business. Maybe if I'd gone back into tanks when I was still working I wouldn't have felt so burnt out so often. I for one don't want everyone to be equal and the same, we are all different. I like a man to be a man, be strong etc etc, I just don't like to be thought less of because I'm female. Unfortunately certain assumptions are made by some folk based on your gender ie women can't read a map, park a car, wire a plug blah blah and that men can do these things. My step father was a very intelligent GP who took a sink and taps off, covered the ends of the pipes with plastic bags and then turned the mains back on .
And yes, what has happened? I couldn't be bothered with a guy that took longer to get ready than me!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> This is why I got back into tanks, it was something to stop me going completely mental as previously my work had been my passion and hobby all rolled into one.


 
That's something we all definitely have in common  I recently posted on someone who was selling all their gear because of work commitments. If anything that's when you need a tank  I have my own business as well which is often stressful and many times your hard work and effort results in companies holding back payment and you staff complaining even when you're are trying to keep everyone happy. Very rare you get some job satisfaction! I also have a young daughter and finding the balance is more often than not a juggling act.

My tank is my little oasis in my life where my efforts get rewarded with something that is relaxing and a joy to look at. It gives me a better understanding of nature and reminds me what balance actually is. It only takes a few hours per week but the rewards are immeasurable in my life. I even have a little shrimp tank in my office to keep stress down, I often think just staring at it for an hour makes me make more balanced decisions. Except when they are dying but that's another story 

I suspect men and women all keep aquariums for the same reasons as me and you. As you have found having that little break from bringing up kids and your job does a power of good. Maybe if more women knew that it would be more popular with them. Unfortunately we live in a fast moving world and without the proper information keeping fish can also have a stress level when starting out that some people want to avoid.

I hope you are aware most my comments are just to keep things light humoured. Often stuff like this deteriorates into an argument or folk trying to justify their existence. Sometimes, without a smile people misinterpret text on the internet. Anyway, glad your here and I look forward to seeing your creations, I'm sure everyone here will be giving you a warm welcome as well it's a very friendly board.

Get a post up of a tank your starting with 18,000.00 galls, 1 miilion watts of lighting, a filter that can turn the Atlantic over in an hour with some plants no ones ever heard of and shrimp that costs a months wages! You know what boys are like with their toys 

Take care mate and I'll be seeing you round the boards for some advice. But not on plumbing if your Dad taught you


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

BTW apologies for treating you like a new member! I've been posting from a phone so not reading stuff through and for some reason thought you were the new person just introduced  Men eh, they just can't multi task!


> Wish me luck lol !


It's not always like this Kurlilox, good luck with your tank.


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## The Doctor's Companion (25 Mar 2013)

I'm going to refrain from commenting on any of the above posts, instead saying that I personally am very surprised that there aren't more female scapers.
As a former hardcore gamer I quite thrive being a female in a male-centric environment, but with the amount of fussing that goes into the details and design you'd really think it'd be more of a female hobby.
However I do admit I don't find it very interesting to *run *a tank, while designing and creating a tank is much more interesting from my pov. (kinda how it's fun to build with lego, but not so fun to play with afterwards.)


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

I hope you're not suggesting men aren't capable of fussing over detail! Bit sexist that  I'm ocd so I could fuss you under the table  

Just dawned on me, who decided it was a male dominated hobby anyway, or gaming to that matter? Seems if women think that then that's a wrong assumption that's causing the problem of them not getting involved. Maybe it is what it is and not a hobby that appeals that much to the majority of women for whatever reason. I think playing net ball would probably be a laugh just don't fancy getting right into it.


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## The Doctor's Companion (25 Mar 2013)

I think men and woman are fundamentally different, but that doesn't make one gender better than the other. Also, most games are specifically aimed at 16 year old boys, that makes it a male dominated world. There's no point in discussing that, it's marketing and profiling.



The Doctor's Companion said:


> with the amount of fussing that goes into the details and design you'd really think it'd be more of a female hobby.


Note how I chose the words "More of a female hobby" instead of "predominately a female hobby" , as I meant that more woman should find it interesting as apposed to the relative small amount of known female scapers we see today.
And while we're on the gender-based quips, I know quite a few men who loves fussing over small details....


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Mar 2013)

It's not the size of the detail that's important. I've fussed over my nano many a time with better results than some much bigger tanks I've seen oooerr missus . Is it me or has this post gone a bit carry on planted tank? 
Do we actually know how many active female members we have? With all the crazy names for all I know I could be the only bloke here. Apart from nath that is, chauvinism like that is hard to fake. Only joking mate.


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## The Doctor's Companion (26 Mar 2013)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> With all the crazy names for all I know I could be the only bloke here.


It's hard to tell of course, but it seems to me that half the active members on here are called Mark.



AverageWhiteBloke said:


> It's not the size of the detail that's important


At least you are male...


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Mar 2013)

The Doctor's Companion said:


> At least you are male...


The worst type as well, proper hairy a**** northern contractor caveman but I like to think I'm living a modern life whether I like it or not 
Without getting the Freudian leather couch out I don't think there is an answer to why there aren't many top women scapers or why more women don't get into it. Maybe just doesn't appeal to most women  Looking back through the posts previous I think people have commented on what it is about scaping and assumed that all females or males think the same way as them. It isn't for any good reason I can think of, like I mentioned earlier, I'm replying to posts without knowing whether it's a male or female and it doesn't make any difference. It's usually a bit further down the line when I get to know them better that I realise their gender.

What we can do to encourage more females into the hobby I don't know either, the more women showing their friends their tanks may encourage others to do the same but I know in my case I didn't find the hobby the hobby found me. A friend of mine got a two foot tank in his living room and the first time I saw it I thought I'm having one of them. Bought a book, think it was Interpet guide to fishkeeping and the plants section of the book struck a chord with me. Thousands of pounds later here I am.

I don't think you can encourage people if it doesn't take their fancy regardless of gender.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Mar 2013)

Finally  just thought of something else that may have a bearing. When friends come round to my house male/female they all see the tank because it's the centre piece of the room. Out of all my wifes female friends except the mother in law they all look say "oh yeah it's good" in a not bothered manner and usually go on to discuss where it would be better situated in the room generally because my missus thinks it's too much and has pre-empted the conversation for my benefit  The mother in law did say "it looked a lot better with the lights on" 
Children of both genders and male friends always ask questions about equipment and inmates and seem genuinely interested. Having said that so far male friends have said they would have one but never got round to it! Different opinions of it but the same net result of no new keepers, if people don't get smitten right away then I think they just think it's going to be extra hassle in their already busy lives.


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## Lindy (26 Mar 2013)

If it isn't fluffy and cute many women will not be interested. Look at dogs. My min poodle used to get lots of attention from women/girls, the giant crossbreed was a bloke magnet.


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## Aron_Dip (26 Mar 2013)

I wish that my GF would take up the hobbie .... That way spending hundreds of pounds on plants fish and shrimp would be a hell of a lot easier! 

I mean one can only hide so many receipts ! lol

Cheers Aron


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## Lindy (26 Mar 2013)

There is research going on that is looking at the brain and gender. It suggests that regardless of your gender you can have degrees of male and female in your brain. They found links between very male brains and autism which I think has fueled interest in the research. So I suspect I have a female brain with a certain degree of male. Therefore I enjoy doing some things that are traditionaly viewed as male but I still like to get dressed up and shake my tail feathers now and again
Life would be pretty dull if all women were the same and all men the same. Apparently school teachers regardless of gender are likely to have a more female brain and engineers/architects are likely to have a more male brain.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Mar 2013)

Wasn't going to mention it because I wasn't sure of the facts behind it but did see something once where male brains are different other than the obvious where it was to do with hunting skills, perception of distance, calculating distance required to effectively hunt and stalk pray which was used on the old car parking theory! Like I said earlier with the observations of the tank. SOME  women seem to lose there natural curiosity of how things work which was there as a child where SOME men don't. Maybe in equal measure I don't know. Most women I know if something works it just does and they move on to a practical application. Men generally want to take it to bits and see why, which is probably why you find them at the bottom of the garden in a shed making home brew wine and dolls houses 

I also don't mind shaking my tail feathers, or getting a bath and a shave as I like to call it!


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## sanj (26 Mar 2013)

I did raise this question as a poll a couple of years ago and yes, not many foo foos... 
Where are all the Girls?? | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Mar 2013)

It's down to you then girls you need to start recruiting. It would be great to have more diversity in the board and in my experience you can never see enough foo foos, the more the better  I think I'll quit while I'm ahead.
Nath has just started a thread on soft furnishings and scatter cushions, he must be scaping his sofa


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## Lindy (26 Mar 2013)

I don't have a problem with the present status quo, you go recruit

''Nath has just started a thread on soft furnishings and scatter cushions, he must be scaping his sofa''

Next he'll be dressing his dog in a tutu


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (26 Mar 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> I don't have a problem with the present status quo, you go recruit
> 
> ''Nath has just started a thread on soft furnishings and scatter cushions, he must be scaping his sofa''
> 
> Next he'll be dressing his dog in a tutu



My wolf wouldn't fit his massive a*** in a TUTU


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## jojouk (13 Apr 2013)

Do you think its because in general, men have more free time?


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## Palm Tree (13 Apr 2013)

Just before I say anything, I am a young male and I am in no way sexist. Also this is a very simple idea, and like most things in psychology, just a theory.
I study psychology and the first thing to understand is that males and females are different. Also it is not just the sex, male vs female, it is the gender, masculine vs feminine that can effect how personality and also individual differences. Obviously males are more likely to show masculine traits and females are more likely to show feminine traits (that is not to say males don't show feminine traits and vice versa).
What i'm trying to get at is certain activities may activate or involve these traits, for example, just how fashion is more popular with women generally, the aquatics scene is more popular with men. This is an over simplified theory, as it doesn't even account for the fact that some activities may be viewed as a taboo to sex groups. What I mean by this is, for example, for many years activities such as fashion shopping and knitting have been attached with negative stigmas to males and positive for females. I understand that things are better now days but everything is not 100% equal.

The BSRI Test with JavaScript scoring


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## Palm Tree (13 Apr 2013)

And as a side note, I do not appreciate comments like


jojouk said:


> Do you think its because in general, men have more free time?


as this can easily be viewed as sexist. I do not think it was said nastily but just be careful what you say. Sexism works two ways.


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## jojouk (13 Apr 2013)

Palm Tree said:


> And as a side note, I do not appreciate comments like
> 
> as this can easily be viewed as sexist. I do not think it was said nastily but just be careful what you say. Sexism works two ways.


 
Many apologies, did not mean to offend, just an honest comment. Its just in general, and *very* broadly speaking, women seem to have to juggle more things than men in their everyday lives, and their free time is occupied with other things.

However, I think I may have just talked myself out of an argument...as if their free time is occupied with other things, then they are choosing to do those other things instead of taking up this hobby..

Forget I ever said anything.

(and can you please elaborate on what you mean that sexism works two ways please?)


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## Palm Tree (13 Apr 2013)

jojouk said:


> Many apologies, did not mean to offend, just an honest comment. Its just in general, and *very* broadly speaking, women seem to have to juggle more things than men in their everyday lives, and their free time is occupied with other things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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