# Whats this algae and how do I rid of it?



## Jaap (20 Aug 2012)

Hello,

I think I am doing everything right:
1. Tank 70L with 18w T5HO and 1000l/h filter
2. EI dosing
3. Porus clay type gravel
4. Only Eleocharis Parvula, no fauna
5. CO drop checker is nearly yellow, blasting tank with pressurized CO2 through inline atomizer

What am I doing wrong?














Thanks


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## geoffbark (20 Aug 2012)

Head over to james planted tank

Looks like brown algae, Due to new setup high NH3 etc.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Aug 2012)

Light levels are too high mate. Not necessarily the tank light itself, could be due to sunlight, or ambient light.

I had this stuff, it grows everyday back to full force until I reduced the light from window and Grobeam & upped the Co2.

Check my tank in my sig for details, it was one of my recent posts.

Cheers,


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## Garuf (20 Aug 2012)

Having a very low biomass at start up doesn't help much either, always try and have at least 60% of the substrate planted, the more the better. 

 My first course of action would be to trim all the hairgrass level with the substrate, get a load of floaters duck weed anything like that and add some big bundles of plants like H.Polysperma, clean everything and increase waterchanges to no less that 50% daily, keep the co2 and dosing high and give the filter,tubing etc a good clean too. I'd also double check dosing and check that there's no ambient lighting coming in as outlined by Whitey.


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## Jaap (20 Aug 2012)

No ambient light or sunlight at all. Maybe i am dosing high on the kno3? Its not a new setup.


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## Garuf (20 Aug 2012)

I don't think it's too much ferts, I think it isn't enough. I'd also be suspicious of just how much co2 is in the water, inline misters have a horrible habit of throwing drop checkers with microbubbles going straight into the "bell" giving a false result. 

Even if it's not a new set up low biomass isn't helping you.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Aug 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> No ambient light or sunlight at all. Maybe i am dosing high on the kno3? Its not a new setup.



How long are the lights on? Its a co2 / lighting related issue I think..


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## geoffbark (20 Aug 2012)

Quote James planted tank http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

"Description: 	Forms in brown patches on the glass, substrate and plants.
Cause: 	        Usually found in newly setup tanks due to silicates and ammonia as the filter and substrate have yet to mature.

Removal: 	        Can be vacuumed out or wiped of the glass with a soft cloth. Usually disappears after a few weeks when the tank has matured. Otocinclus will eat it."

Also George Farmer has a good guide linked at the top of this forum page. but here it is anyway
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=905

worth the read


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## Jaap (20 Aug 2012)

The lights are on 6 hours. 

I dose 15ml seachem trace elements 3 times a week and 12ml of a solution made up of 100g KNO3 and 20g KH2PO4 dissolved in something less than 500ml of water.

Should i up the co2? The substrate and filter are definately mature. Problem is i cant get more plants since none are available at shops at the moment.

Should i add an overdose of excell?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Aug 2012)

I would definitely up the co2, is it possible to take a photo of positioning in the room? Because if thats light then it wont do you any favours..

A 24/7 lower BPS rate could possibly help, as tim stated, that this technique helped him get rid.


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## Jaap (20 Aug 2012)

Also I made a mistake...its 24w T5HO on for 6.5 hours daily!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Aug 2012)

I would probably recommend a good water change and blackout. I noticed the blackout had an effect on my setup when I was getting a lot of this stuff.

Get a toothbrush and GENTLY brush the  algae, it should come off really easy.  Just be careful not to pull hairgrass out.

Mine had to be done every day. 
How old is the tank? What was the last thing you did to the tank or modified? 

Cheers,


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## Jaap (20 Aug 2012)

The tank is over a year old and still I am battling to get this right. Latest change was to add the pressurized co2 and then the atomizer. Complete blackout? For how many days? Wont this kill the plants as well?


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## Garuf (20 Aug 2012)

I honestly think what you have with the hairgrass there is in no way worth trying to rescue, it's clearly of poor health hence my suggestion to cut it to the substrate and allow fresh growth to come back. You really won't get on top of the issues you have unless you have a lot more biomass though, there's no two ways around it.


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## Jaap (21 Aug 2012)

OK I will cut the grass down to the substrate and thus remove the algae.

However I can't get any more plants at the moment...it is impossible for me since there aren't any on the market due to the high summer temperatures and they don't import any plants until later on in September.

I will do the following changes:
1. Add Excell overdose
2. Cut the hairgrass to substrate level and remove algae
3. Up the CO2
4. Reduce the photoperiod from 6.5 hours to 5 hours

I already do my 50% weekly water changes and I clean my filter once every 2 weeks.

Do the above changes sound like a descent try?

Thanks.


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## geoffbark (21 Aug 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> OK I will cut the grass down to the substrate and thus remove the algae.
> 
> However I can't get any more plants at the moment...it is impossible for me since there aren't any on the market due to the high summer temperatures and they don't import any plants until later on in September.
> 
> ...




That sounds like a good start  

but as others have mentioned you do need more of a biomass, more plants!
Thanks


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## Gary Nelson (21 Aug 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> OK I will cut the grass down to the substrate and thus remove the algae.
> 
> However I can't get any more plants at the moment...it is impossible for me since there aren't any on the market due to the high summer temperatures and they don't import any plants until later on in September.



Are you UK based? If so plants are available all year round - lots for sale on here too, some members just giving them away and just wanting postage cost.


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## Johno2090 (21 Aug 2012)

Jaap how do you clean your filter?


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## Jaap (21 Aug 2012)

Gary Nelson said:
			
		

> Jaap said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately I am not UK based, I am from Cyprus and I honestly cannot find plants except of a few anubias this time of the year.

I clean my filter by cleaning the sponges under running water, removing the ceramic material from the cannister, cleaning the cannister and then putting everything back together and flooding the filter with tank water. The tank water that I use when doing water changes is always treated with water conditioner. The whole filter cleaning process takes about 5 minutes or so, the ceramic material stay out of the water for approximately 5 minutes.


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## Johno2090 (21 Aug 2012)

That sounds like your most likely problem right there mate, running the sponges under water is killing the good bacteria and the sponges are what converts the waste. By doing this the bacteria are choosing to live in your tank and not your filter. 

I'm really surprised how many people jump straight in to the up co2 and cut right back without first checking the basics! This is classic diatoms from an uncycled tank use tank water to rinse your sponges and clean your filter you'll notice a huge difference.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (21 Aug 2012)

I cut right back on the light and upped co2 on my diatom algae, did the trick. 

Was sunlight coming through the window killing me like.


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## tim (21 Aug 2012)

good call jono ammonia spike with every filter clean well diagnosed


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## Jaap (21 Aug 2012)

So what you guys are basically saying is I should clean all of my filter media with tank water?

Should I go buy a product that helps bacteria to grow in the tank/filter, like sera filter biostart?


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## Johno2090 (21 Aug 2012)

Yes, just use tank water de-chlorinating after you've bathed the filter in chlorine does nothing  

I wouldn't worry about the filter boosting products you have everything you need in your tank already you just need to let it move to the right place. Let it run for a week and then remove as much as you can from the tank whist leaving the filter well alone.

If you have no fish then personally I'd let the filter run for at least two weeks mabe even more before cleaning it again. Let the bacteria build up inside it but keep doing your weekly water changes.


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## geoffbark (21 Aug 2012)

Jaap

Did you take a look at the algae threads i linked too?

Johno has strengthened my diagnosis of brown algae   

Strangly enough though i am going to tell you add NH3.

wait.........

Although Nh3 is contributing to the algae, this is because you are spiking the Nh3 by cleaning your filter in tap water and as johno says tank water is better or declorinated.

Adding NH3 will help kick in the nitrogen cycle, this is how you achieve a "fishless cycle". and this will produce good bacteria within your filter. 

Add some fish later and this will keep the bacteria going.


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## Jaap (21 Aug 2012)

How do i add NH3?


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## geoffbark (21 Aug 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> How do i add NH3?




Take a look at this page

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm

It will explain the importance of bacteria that breaks down ammonia (NH3) to Nitrite and then more bacteria break down nitrite to nitrate.

Your plants will use the nitrate.


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## Jaap (22 Aug 2012)

Thanks everyone.

Can I ask, how do I get ammonia spikes when there are no fish in the tank?


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## Jaap (22 Aug 2012)

Johno2090 said:
			
		

> That sounds like your most likely problem right there mate, running the sponges under water is killing the good bacteria and the sponges are what converts the waste. By doing this the bacteria are choosing to live in your tank and not your filter.



I thought the ceramic material is what did all the job and the sponges just collected large particles floating in the water like dead leaves etc.


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## Johno2090 (22 Aug 2012)

The sponges are your first port of call in the filter you'll always get bacteria growing there in large quantities, your tank has no fish thus the ammonia will be small and due to organic breakdown amongst other things. Probably enough for the sponges to convert but not for a decent amount to grow on the ceramics to counter the chlorine bath which then adds ammonia from the dead bacteria on the sponges. 

Just my opinion mate what have you got to lose, try it and see!


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## Jaap (22 Aug 2012)

Johno2090 said:
			
		

> The sponges are your first port of call in the filter you'll always get bacteria growing there in large quantities, your tank has no fish thus the ammonia will be small and due to organic breakdown amongst other things. Probably enough for the sponges to convert but not for a decent amount to grow on the ceramics to counter the chlorine bath which then adds ammonia from the dead bacteria on the sponges.
> 
> Just my opinion mate what have you got to lose, try it and see!



Thanks mate...I will definitely try this don't get me wrong 

I am just trying to understand how I get ammonia spikes when I have no fauna in the tank. So basically ammonia spikes come from the dead bacteria I kill when running the sponges under running water and from dead leaves?


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## darren636 (22 Aug 2012)

clean your filter sponges in tank water. Just a quick rinse is all it needs.  you do not want to remove all the good stuff. Also, your filter is not mature-because there is not enough waste for it to consume.


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## Jaap (22 Aug 2012)

So let me get this right....if I leave my filter for a couple of weeks without cleaning it, and after that if I clean my filter with tank water....will that eliminate the nasty thread brown algae?


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## tim (22 Aug 2012)

You will probably have to remove algae manually trim it out of hair grass clean glass etc should go a long way to stopping it returning though


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## nry (22 Aug 2012)

I doubt you'd need to worry about cleaning the filter at all, the bacteria level should build up and there will be little to no physical muck in the filter to clean out as there are no fish.


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## Johno2090 (22 Aug 2012)

Nry that was my initial thoughts, cleaning it probably does more bad than good at this stage.


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