# New 20L Dennerle nano tank- some help please!



## bensdb (16 Feb 2009)

Hi all-

First post on ukaps! great website by the way.

Anyway I started with an interest in fishtanks about 3 months ago by helping my little sister set up a rio 125 planted community tank- which is coming along niceley.  Wanted my own tank for a while but am restricted by space in my small room so opted for a nano.  Was considering setting up my own system from scratch but then noticed these really nice dennerle tanks in my lfs! Couldn't resist!!

Currently in the process of planting and cycling it. Hoping to get some HC for the forground and then some grassy tallish plants for the back. Will be stocking with cherry shrimp, and maybe a few tiny fish( i.e oto's/galaxy rasboras) -undecided as of yet. (was even kind of tempted by a couple of dwarf puffers!!)

Here's some pics:



























Anyway my qs. relate to equipment and general setup. Currently the system only has an 11w light. Obviousley this is not ideal in a 20L tank! Isn't it meant to be 2w/L?  Now I know there are PC T5's out there that are rated at 18w (i think!) for this size hood, but I don't really want to have two of these light's from an anesthetic point of view. Does anyone know what equipment I need or am I just going to have to bite the bullet and get a second lighting unit?

Second qs relates to filtration.  I was thinking of getting an eheim 2213 as this would provide roughly 20x turnover in the tank.  Would this be too much for shrimp?  Would they get sucked into the inlet?  Was thinking of getting a cal aqua lily pipe set too.

I also want an external heater of some sort. I know hydor do external inline's but I think they start at a minimum of 200w. As far as I'm aware this is dangerous  for a tank this small incase it gets stuck in the on position. What other options have I got then? Are there many heaters small enough and suitable enough to be retro fitted inside the eheim?

No CO2 for the time being. Just another unnessessary expense! Will be dosing with TPN+ and Seachem flourish.

Anyway your help is much appreciated guys!

Thanks 

Ben


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## StevenA (16 Feb 2009)

The standard light that comes with it is fine, you have 2.5 watts per gallon (wpg) which is great for that tank. 11w light fitting divided by 4.399 gallons(20 litres) = 2.5 wpg   You definately don't need to upgrade the lighting. Looks great by the way, I am thinking of something like the Dennerle nano for myself too.


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## Egmel (16 Feb 2009)

Tourney said:
			
		

> The standard light that comes with it is fine, you have 2.5 watts per gallon (wpg) which is great for that tank. 11w light fitting divided by 4.399 gallons(20 litres) = 2.5 wpg   You definately don't need to upgrade the lighting. Looks great by the way, I am thinking of something like the Dennerle nano for myself too.


Depends on who you listen to!

Amano would probably have nearer 50W according to this page!

Though if you increase the lighting then you'll need to add either CO2 or some carbon fertiliser such as excel or easycarbo.


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## StevenA (16 Feb 2009)

Might look a bit silly with 5 arc pod type lights over it though


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## Fred Dulley (17 Feb 2009)

Tourney said:
			
		

> The standard light that comes with it is fine, you have 2.5 watts per gallon (wpg) which is great for that tank. 11w light fitting divided by 4.399 gallons(20 litres) = 2.5 wpg   You definately don't need to upgrade the lighting. Looks great by the way, I am thinking of something like the Dennerle nano for myself too.




WPG rule doesn't apply on smaller tanks.


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## StevenA (17 Feb 2009)

Oh ok, learn something new everyday   May I ask why?


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## Fred Dulley (17 Feb 2009)

Certainly   
Here's the info, http://www.rexgrigg.com/mlt.html


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## bensdb (17 Feb 2009)

Ok so i' now even more confused...  is this enough light to grow most plant species? Would it be worth it for me to upgrade?

Has anyone got any other thoughts on the other qs.'s I asked?

Thanks a bunch guys!


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## YzemaN (17 Feb 2009)

Hi Ben, welcome to UKaps  Nice tank and nice rocks you have there.

With regards to lighting, if you don't want any carbon supplement (CO2 or EasyCarbo/Excel) I would suggest you stick with the 11W you already have. Any more and you'll be an expert algae farmer in no time! But if you want to grow HC you will probably need more light, but HC really requires some sort of carbon to be added, and grows well with either CO2 or EC/Excel. In a tank your size liquid carbon won't be too expensive, but the moss balls will have to go. EC/Excel are mild algecides in the concentrations recommended, but will also become a herbicide if overdosed too much. Most truly aquatic plants and mosses don't like it and in my experience, the grassy Eleocharis sp. aren't too fond of it either.

The filter should be OK. Most externals can be turned down, and a lot of the Eheims actually make good retreats for tiny shrimplets! Just check the filter every couple of weeks and fish them out. They'll soon be too large to go into the inlet strainer. AFAIK the only external heaters are 200W or 300W. I used a 200W Hydor heater on my 25L, but it turned on and off very often, and I suspect the water quickly became too hot in certain spots of the tank, as the fish seemed a bit stressed after I installed it. You might want to look into getting an external with a built-in heater?

One last thing: Why the Flourish? It's just micro nutrients and TPN+ should provide you with everything you need!

Good luck and be sure to make a journal out of this tank! 8)


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## Nelson (17 Feb 2009)

hi
 i love it.so simple yet........?       should look great when you get the other plant's.
     can't answer your questions but thought more wpg the smaller the tank???

    neil


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## bensdb (18 Feb 2009)

Hi all- thanks for replies and suggestions.

So I've ordered some HC and b. japonica from javaplants today. Also going to order myself some easycarbo from ae.

Decided that I'm going to have a dwarf puffer in this tank, along with some cherry shrimp.. I know it is a  bit of a risk putting them together but from what I've read some dp's are fine with shrimp, others are not! Just luck of the draw really!
They are such interesting little fish, and I think one will go great in this tank. Ideal size too at 1".

Withe regards to heating and filtration. I think I'll discount fitting a 200w external inline heater after Yzeman's suggestions. The only problem with getting a filter with heater already built in is they start at a minimum of about 600lph I think, which would be waaaay to much for this little tank. Think I'll stick with the 2213. I've seen someone retrofit a small heater inside a filter before on another forum so might go down this route if I can figure out how!!

thanks for all your help so far guys and keep your suggestions coming!


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## Dan Crawford (18 Feb 2009)

Sounds like you've got it all worked out pal. BTW i don't heat any of my nanos, i have three of them with fish and crystal reds and they're all fine, providing it's an average heated house?


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## George Farmer (18 Feb 2009)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> BTW i don't heat any of my nanos, i have three of them with fish and crystal reds and they're all fine, providing it's an average heated house?


+1 for not heating small tanks if you have central heating kept at a reasonable temperature.  In fact my Flame tetras seem to prefer cooler temperatures.

I'm getting my Dennerle nano soon....  Can't wait!!


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## samc (18 Feb 2009)

im thinking of taking my heater out what would be an ideal temp for tetras and a few shrimp? or should i say what temp is acceptable?


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## StevenA (18 Feb 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'm getting my Dennerle nano soon....  Can't wait!!




George you lucky man, I'd love one of those nano's  8)


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## bensdb (18 Feb 2009)

AWESOME!!

Got myself a dwarf puffer and 4 crystal black shrimp today!!

He's incrediblly cute! Very inquisitve aswell which I'm surprised by as I thought he might be more shy to start off with.

Shrimp have settled in niceley aswell.


Just looking forward to getting it planted out better....

I'll get some more pics up in the next few days- or more likely set up a blog


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## Themuleous (18 Feb 2009)

Is the puffer OK with shrimp?  Got any photos of the shrimp?  Not sure I've seen crystal black shrimp?

Sam


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## samc (18 Feb 2009)

sounds good. i was thinking if a puffer would eat shrimp as i thought they have teeth. id like to see the puffer i was very interested in getting some a while ago.


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## bensdb (19 Feb 2009)

From what i've read it's a bit 50/50 as to weather ure puffer will be ok with shrimp or not- mine seems fine so far! Even tempted to try him with some galaxy rasboras as my tank is looking empty! Still don't have a clue what I'm going to do about this filter and heater situation! I basically want a near silent external filter and heater but can't find a suitable solution! Thinking of a tetratec ex 600 as it's meant to be silent. Would have to run it at it's lowest setting and I still don't have a clue how to heat! Any suggestions?


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## Woodpecker (23 Feb 2009)

Does having a non-heated tank affect what plants or shrimps you can have?

I have a modern house with heating set at about 19c (off at night though).  I guess the heat from the lights provides heat in the day, but what about at night?

Thanks.


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## StevenA (23 Feb 2009)

From what I understand from other posts on this forum, in a normally central heated house a heater is not required in a nano  8) So I don't think you're plant and/or shrimp choice would be limited at all


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## beeky (25 Feb 2009)

I don't really understand this. I would have thought a nano would be more likely to need a heater to stabilise the temperature fluctuations encountered in a small body of water.


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