# Raising Amano Larvae



## clansley (24 Sep 2020)

Saw one of my females were berried, so thought I would give it a try.  I will try to post updates, even if it all ends in failure.

I'm 3 weeks in (since seeing berried female), 11 days since transferring some larvae to marine tank.  There seems to be 10-15 new larvae everyday, which isn't what I was expecting, I was expecting more of a big bang.

I was hoping I would have green water in the marine tank before the first larvae appeared, but 2 weeks just wasn't enough time. May have been better if I had gotten a culture.

So instead I'm feeding them brought algae (Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis suecica, Chaetoceros muelleri ) and also Seachem Reef Phytoplankton (Isochrysis Sp, Thalassiosira Weissflogii, ...)


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## clansley (24 Sep 2020)

I'm not really setup for photos etc - so this is a bit rough:


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## noodlesuk (24 Sep 2020)

Impressive, look forward to updates on how they get on.


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## clansley (24 Sep 2020)

This would be my first attempt at marine - so the risks are high.

I was in a hurry, so ordered what I could get next day, salt mix is: iQuatics Ocean Reef Pro Marine Saltwater Coral Premium Aquarium Salt, which I'm mixing with RO water.
I'm aiming between 30-35 ppt, I'm thinking I will aim for 32 and will dilute it with RO water when it hits 34.

3 things I've learnt:

the cheap Refractometer I got needs calibrating before every use - I have almost made drastic changes before realising it was a bad reading from the refractometer!
fresh marine salt tends to have an ammonia reading!  (not a problem on a fully cycled tank)
never use marine water right away, alway let it age for a few days.

I use a magnifying glass in one hand and a large Syringe in the other to catch the larvae and move them to the marine tank.


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## chrisfraser05 (25 Sep 2020)

a £10 glass hydrometer will massively outperform a Refractometer.


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## clansley (25 Sep 2020)

chrisfraser05 said:


> a £10 glass hydrometer will massively outperform a Refractometer.



Good to know, I will look into it.


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## chrisfraser05 (25 Sep 2020)

clansley said:


> Good to know, I will look into it.


Not a swing arm type though, they are impossible to clean properly so end up getting dirty and not working properly. 

The glass floating ones are easy to clean and results are infinitely repeatable.


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## clansley (25 Sep 2020)

Mum looked empty underneath, so I've now returned her to the main tank.

So there was no big bang drop for me, just 5-30 larvae most days over the past 12 days.

A video of them under the light:


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## clansley (25 Sep 2020)

I also brought a glass hydrometer - due tomorrow. Got worried about the refractometer I have, since it won't stay calibrated.

Decided to make a reference solution of 35 ppt, and test the refractometer with it; first calibrated with RO water, then place the test on it, it read 36ppt, which is good enough


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## clansley (26 Sep 2020)

Even though the female is back in the main tank, I'm still checking the hatching tank. Good job, I found 4 new larvae. Checked the main tank too, just in case, and found none.
Checking involves: turning off all filters/airstones/lights, and shining a bright torch. They can take them some time to arrive (depending on tank size), but I tend to wait 5 mins max.

Getting an ammonia and nitrite reading, been adding prime to detoxify them. Larvae tank is not cycled, I may be adding too much food (algae) too. Water changes involve air hose with an air stone (so the larvae isn't sucked out).


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## chrisfraser05 (26 Sep 2020)

Really hope you the best of success with this and want to follow.

Considered doing this myself a good few years back.


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## kammaroon (26 Sep 2020)

clansley said:


> Water changes involve air hose with an air stone (so the larvae isn't sucked out).


That's ingenious. Must be slow going though.


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## clansley (26 Sep 2020)

kammaroon said:


> That's ingenious. Must be slow going though.



It is, but almost none of what I'm doing is my original idea. 
I did a fair bit of research, looking what others have done. From that, I've formed what I will try this time.


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## clansley (27 Sep 2020)

Tested the (Sera Marin) glass hydrometer, I think I have a bad one.
RO water tested at 1.001 (1.32 ppt), DIY 35ppt solution tested at 1.024 (31.8 ppt) - maybe I'm doing something wrong.





The larvae tank is reading at: 1.021 (27.8ppt), which is out side of the recommended range! 




Whilst the cheap refractometer is saying:

DIY 35ppt solution: 36 ppt (1.0271)
larvae tank: 31 ppt (1.0233), within recommended range.

This is so hard when using cheap home test equipment


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## Ed Wiser (27 Sep 2020)

This Hana tester is good 

Amazon product

I use a high end version as I keep reef tanks too.


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## clansley (27 Sep 2020)

4 more larvae today, hoping the hatching tank will stop producing larvae soon so I can give it a deep clean (been unable to hoover the floor incase I hoover up eggs).

What does the larvae tank look like?  It really does look like an empty tank:



Until you look a lot closer:


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## DeepMetropolis (28 Sep 2020)

Interesting curious how it works out.. I tought about trying to breed amano's for myself as they are pretty costly if you want a bunch..


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## clansley (28 Sep 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Interesting curious how it works out.. I tought about trying to breed amano's for myself as they are pretty costly if you want a bunch..



I've spent too much for this to be a good idea for saving money - unless you want a lot of them . But if you already ran marine tanks then it might work out better.

As an example:
- Salt: £22.95
- Refractometer (test salt level): £16.99

Other costs are for a light, air pump - but I had these hanging around as spares anyway.
I found I didn't need a heater since the light (which is on 24/7) seems to be heating the water. Although I did use the heater in the hatching tank where the female lived for a few weeks.


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## DeepMetropolis (28 Sep 2020)

clansley said:


> I've spent too much for this to be a good idea for saving money - unless you want a lot of them . But if you already ran marine tanks then it might work out better.
> 
> As an example:
> - Salt: £22.95
> ...


Yes that's pretty expensive. But last time I bought like 30 shrimp and they cost about 3,50€ each.. They where small when I put them in and the apisto was all to happy with them. Lucky the most of them survived and now they are to big for him and hé doesn't brother anymore..

So if I ever ever get a lager tank maby it would be nice to farm my own 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk


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## clansley (28 Sep 2020)

A further 4 larvae found in the female-less hatching tank.

I brought another glass hydrometer, this one was zero on RO water, and matched the previous one for the readings! 

So maybe the previous one wasn't dodgy after all, and perhaps my larvae tank is out of recommended range! 

I think I will raise the salt level by 3 ppt.


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## Wolf6 (29 Sep 2020)

Would it be an idea to split them over 2 tanks, since you have the hatching tank spare now? That way if something goes wrong it with one tank you still have the other. Since you are investing so much to see this through it might be nice to have some failsafe  Good luck on raising them!


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## clansley (29 Sep 2020)

Wolf6 said:


> Would it be an idea to split them over 2 tanks, since you have the hatching tank spare now? That way if something goes wrong it with one tank you still have the other. Since you are investing so much to see this through it might be nice to have some failsafe  Good luck on raising them!



It makes sense.  It's just hard to know when to give up on the hatching tank, since each day there are yet more larvae. But I am assuming it will be free very soon.


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## clansley (30 Sep 2020)

No further new larvae in the hatching tank, I'll give it one more day and reuse the tank.
Larvae seem to be doing fine in their tank.

The larvae tank has just a sponge filter on a very low setting, thinking I will add an air line slowly bubbling. Since many of them hang out at the top I wonder if some flow from bottle of the tank to the top may help to circulate algae.


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## Wookii (30 Sep 2020)

Following this with interest.

I've read that adults are unable to survive the brackish water that the young require - have you managed to work out how and when to start transitioning them back to fresh water?


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## clansley (30 Sep 2020)

Wookii said:


> Following this with interest.
> 
> I've read that adults are unable to survive the brackish water that the young require - have you managed to work out how and when to start transitioning them back to fresh water?



The adults stay in freshwater, I initially moved the female to a smaller "hatching" tank, it just makes it a lot easier to suck up the larvae and transfer them to the salt tank.

I now have to wait until the larvae metamorphosis into baby shrimp; at that point they won't find the light interesting and will also move in a forward direction like the adults.
(officially I'm meant to move them just before metamorphosis since they will be much easier to catch that way)

I hope the larvae will survive long enough for us to do that part


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## X3NiTH (30 Sep 2020)

Are you taking any measures to prevent/limit cannibalism in the planktonic stage larvae? I’m not sure if Amanos do this at the planktonic stage but most other marine invertebrates do (lobsters in particular). If this issue arises it might be worth looking at a Pseudo Kreisel setup to keep the larvae suspended in the water column and separated from each other until ready to metamorphose and settle out on the substrate.


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## clansley (30 Sep 2020)

X3NiTH said:


> Are you taking any measures to prevent/limit cannibalism in the planktonic stage larvae? I’m not sure if Amanos do this at the planktonic stage but most other marine invertebrates do (lobsters in particular). If this issue arises it might be worth looking at a Pseudo Kreisel setup to keep the larvae suspended in the water column and separated from each other until ready to metamorphose and settle out on the substrate.



I'm not, but this is interesting, because I did wonder if I've been seeing the larger ones annoying the smaller ones... (perhaps they are trying to eat them!)


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## X3NiTH (30 Sep 2020)

clansley said:


> (perhaps they are trying to eat them!)



I wouldn’t discount it entirely, this may be one of these situations that doesn’t get discussed (I never see it mentioned in papers discussing Amano breeding) because it’s something experts would know or have experience of and it keeps it in their sphere of influence if they can successfully breed them in greater numbers, effectively cornering the market.


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## clansley (30 Sep 2020)

Got the usb microscope out again - my hands are shaky so not greatest:


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## X3NiTH (30 Sep 2020)

This paper from 1968 shows a basic setup in a jar container, wouldn’t be hard to setup, there’s been more development in Kreisel since then with specialist tank setups (mainly seen for Jellyfish rearing).

This is a Hughs Cup which is a circular flow Kreisel tank for rearing Lobster fry.






You just need to keep the larvae suspended in the water column, this also means their food can be suspended this way also (phytoplankton and rotifers) so they have easy access to it but not each other.


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## clansley (30 Sep 2020)

Hmm, that isn't the video I was expecting it to be 
Here's the one I was hoping to upload:


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## not called Bob (30 Sep 2020)

I use a dd refractor, its self calibrated for temperature, so can test freshly made or tank water no issues.  Though always tended to just buy ready made when I needed it. 

Could you run the tank as a mini aqua scape, most marine outlets will have a few species of macro alage in the sumps for free or some times for sale, and can have other salt tolerant plants if you so desire, then it's always cycled and ready for a gravid female.


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## clansley (3 Oct 2020)

Sad news, mass deaths overnight.
This is day 20 since first larvae, 6 days since last one.
Since they arrived in the tank over a long period, I assume this is an environmental issue rather than a feeding issue.

Water parameters:
Ammonia: undetectable
Nitrite: undetectable
Nitrate: 0.2 (if you believe the tests)
Salinity: Refractor: 1.026 (34.5ppt), Glass Hydrometer: 1.022 (29ppt)

Their bodies were all collected into one spot on the sponge filter (which is running at a very slow rate) - which seems weird.


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## lilirose (3 Oct 2020)

So sorry to hear that...hope you will try again as you got further with the project than anyone I "know", and have been more detailed about your experience.


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## clansley (3 Oct 2020)

lilirose said:


> So sorry to hear that...hope you will try again as you got further with the project than anyone I "know", and have been more detailed about your experience.



I've got £20 of salt left, so will 100% try again.

It seems I have 1 larvae left.


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## noodlesuk (3 Oct 2020)

clansley said:


> Sad news, mass deaths overnight.
> This is day 20 since first larvae, 6 days since last one.
> Since they arrived in the tank over a long period, I assume this is an environmental issue rather than a feeding issue.
> 
> ...



I've been following this thread with excitement, sorry to hear they didn't make it . Great to see someone try and attempt something which is as technical as this, look forward to the next brood


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