# Should I add more ferts?



## stan1973 (20 Oct 2011)

Hi

I've just set up a tank, its roughly 300L, (5'x18"x18"). I have used tescos cat litter, I'm quite pleased I managed to get rid of the perfume. I've not added fish yet, I have three 5 foot tubes and an external filter & spray bar which is supposed to filter 1100 litres per hour under normal working conditions.
I've only added a few plants so far
mexican oakleaf
ludwigia palustris
cardamine lyrata
hornwort
frogbit
I've got some others i haven't put in yet, vallis, hygrophila deformis & polysperma, various cryptocoryne.

I've picked plants that are supposed to be easy to grow and adapted to hard water, my tap water is GH 11
 and 14ppm nitrate according to yorkshire waters website.
I'm dosing with some micro element solution i got from aqua essentials, its called nuorish.

Should I be adding macro nutrients? is there anything else I should or shouldn't do or am I doing anything wrong?
I want to get the plants growing really well before i add fish. what else should i be doing? should i turn the spray bar off?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Oct 2011)

Have a look in the lighting part of the board and work out where abouts you are lighting wise. Without knowing the wattage of the tubes and whether they are T8's or T5's its hard to say the amount of lighting. First guess with three tubes above the tank I would say the tank would benefit from addding some macro nutrients to the water. The plants will tell you through stunted growth or yellowing if there is a lack of nitrogen.

If your lighting is high and you need to add macros you may also need to look at getting a souce of carbon in there with either liquid or gas.


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## Brenmuk (21 Oct 2011)

The cat litter will have no nutrients to speak of, there are no fish so there is no fish waste to provide nutrients so I would say yes you need to add some kind of ferts. The plants will do OK to begin with providing they are healthy and will survive on their store of nutrients to sustain them but this will soon be exhausted sooner or later based on the amount of light.


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## stan1973 (21 Oct 2011)

Thanks everyone. The lights are 58W T8s, theyre in the hood about 10-12" above the water so probably not equivalent to being close to the surface. Two of the bulbs are Arcadia original tropical lamp and the other is one I got from B&Q so just a basic fluorescent bulb. 
The mexican oak leaf came through the post and got stuck with the royal mail for a few days so was nearly dead. I read that its supposed to be really fast growing, it has grown but the growth is quite pale, green/yellow and the leaves are small so sounds like I need to add some ferts, the other plants dont look to have grown at all. i had thought that the nitrate in my tap water might be enough for them (~14ppm) What ferts should I give? 

what is the best way of adding NPK? and how much of each?
Is it true that phosphorous promotes hair algae and shouldn't be added or kept low? I work at a chemical company, we have some chemicals at work I might be able to use, we have urea, potassium hydroxide & prosphoric acid so i could make some mono, di or tri-potassium phosphate, I'm guessing di would be better just from pH.
I saw some dry potassium nitrate on an aquatic plant website, is that good?

Thanks 
Stan


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## spyder (21 Oct 2011)

http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fert ... r-kit.html

That contains all you need to get started.

Read this, highly recommended.   http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm


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## Brenmuk (21 Oct 2011)

Have a look at the aquarium fert dosing part of the forum for the best way to add ferts for a tank of that size - probably most cost effective on a large tank is to buy the dry salts. Also look at http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/index.htm it has useful info on dosing and avoiding algae. Plants will do best when they have access to the full range of required nutrients, that is NPK and the trace elements - don't try to limit P but do follow tried and tested fertilisation methods like Tom Barrs EI methods for high tech and low tech tanks. Also you need to consider CO2 - the most important nutrient. If you do not want to add CO2 or liquid C then you will need to stay low light.

I use a soil layer in my tank which along with fish waste provides all the ferts and CO2 I need but as you don't have this i think your best route for success is to add ferts and C and stay low to medium light.


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## stan1973 (21 Oct 2011)

Thanks

I've ordered some potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, potassium sulphate & trace elements.
I don't add CO2 but do have hard water, hopefully because I'm choosing plants that can live in hard water they will get the CO2 they need from the carbonate in the water. I used to keep marines and the plants grew really fast just because they use the carbonate and all the get the other  nutrients from the salt and fish waste I know some freshwater plants can do use CO2 from carbonate too.
One of my other tanks usually has plenty of nitrate so I'm planning to try adding trace elements and potassium sulphate and see how it goes.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Oct 2011)

I would dose nitrate as well, I'm guessing you have tested tap water which is very unreliable. Adding it yourself takes away any doubt. Without the nitrate with those lighting levels your looking for trouble. Most people if adding only one salt would probably plump for nitrate.

I don't know about marines but in the freshwater plant world the plants using the carbonates too grow is seen as a problem, biogenic de-calcification is energy sapping to the plant as the process is much harder than co2 in the water. Your option is either add coi2 or LC or another possibility is knock some light tubes off. In a tank size of yours CO2 would probably be a cheaper option in the long game.


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## stan1973 (21 Oct 2011)

I was talking about another tank for just adding potassium sulphate & trace ferts, one with a decent amount of fish and high nitrate already. 
But plants like vallis do well in hard water, dont they use carboante? I've grown vallis really well in the past without ferts or CO2, just gravel & undergravel filters and fish poo.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Oct 2011)

Some plants have less requirements than others. The Vallis probably grew well because just enough needs were met which in some other plants might not have been the case.
BTW before posting this I'll make clear I'm no expert but just passing on what seems to be working for me   First thing is Nitrate and your high levels, there's two schools of though on here, one tests kits should burned and another is don't mention them in the board but try one just to make yourself feel better.  

Test kits have been tested in lab conditions and found to be highly innacurate, so if you have based your high levels of nitrate on this then you might be wrong. Look at the test more of it saying there is some or there is'nt but the actual amount is probably wrong. In my case my tapwater had very high po4 so I did'nt add it, various problems later I addded it and had better healthier growth.

The plants having to take the carbon from carbonate in the water is the plants last ditch attempt at getting it from some where. They did'nt like it but it was better than dying. A natural aquarium is a work of art, enough fish waste, fish/filter co2 and plants balanced with the amount of lighting to be in equilibrium. In a tank with your amount of lighting you would need that many fish that they would have to form a q to turn round.   

On the other hand we create a life support system for the plants, provide enough fert and co2 to go with the lighting or plants won't thrive and algae become an issue. Perhaps in your other tank with the vallis there was just enough for what they needed and low lighting.


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## stan1973 (21 Oct 2011)

The new tank is what just the other tank being set up again, it had three 5 foot tubes, vallis, hornwort, duckweed, java fern all grew really well,all plants that do well in hard water, amazon swords & cryptocornye died off, I didn't try many other plants back then.
I know the test kits are generally rubbish but I think API is the best test kit. my water supplier says there's 14ppm nitrate in my tap water, my test kit shows between 10 and 20 and my tank goes off the scale if I don't do enough water changes but shows zero on RO water so is giving a decent idea. The bad ones tell you there's no nitrate when its off the scale.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Oct 2011)

> vallis, hornwort, duckweed, java fern


All considered to have less requirements, java,ferns,mosses and floaters.


> amazon swords & cryptocornye died off


harder to keep plants are showing signs


> my water supplier says there's 14ppm nitrate in my tap water


a rough idea based off some random tests and what they are trying to achieve


> kit shows between 10 and 20 and my tank goes off the scale if I don't do enough water changes but shows zero on RO water so is giving a decent idea.





> Look at the test more of it saying there is some or there is'nt but the actual amount is probably wrong


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