# Help with Fish selection



## Sirkavu (14 May 2020)

Hello Everyone!!

I have been deeply thinking g about getting some new fish in my tank by I have been trapped on the selection for 2 weeks now.

I have a low tech 180L tank with 6 amano shrimps, RCS (loaf count xD), 10 zebra danio and 1 golden molly.

I will definitely get another golden molly, and had in mind the below:

2-4 Ottocinclus 
1 Molly
2-4 Cory (don’t know which one to pick)
2 Pearl Gourami
2-4 Blue Rainbowfish

I don’t know what to pick. I honestly want some bottom feeders, and then wanted a nice centre/colourful fish to be in.

What do you guys advice? The Otto would be for some algae and I also like them a lot.

Thank you


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## alto (14 May 2020)

By blue rainbowfish I’m assuming





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						Melanotaenia lacustris (Lake Kutubu Rainbowfish) — Seriously Fish
					






					www.seriouslyfish.com
				









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						Melanotaenia lacustris
					

A website dedicated to Rainbowfishes of Australia and New Guinea




					rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au
				





These are active good sized fish as like many of the larger rainbows, they are a deep bodied fish
Their size and activity can be stressful to other quieter/small fish so choose tankmates with care, they also do much better in larger shoals (when only a few fish are kept, they’re more likely to intimidate and harass other fish)
I’d not keep these fish in anything under 120cm x 45 x 45cm but if you focus your 180 around this fish, you may manage long term (I’d definitely not combine pearl gourami and any of the big active rainbows) - they contribute much more to tank bioload than more slender fish

Any Corydoras would prefer a group of 6-8 as they are quite a social fish (dwarf Corydoras are recommended in groups of 12 and more)


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## Sirkavu (14 May 2020)

Hi @alto 

Thank you for the reply!!

The names I gave are ideas, don’t want to keep them all together as I don’t want to overpopulate the tank.

The zebra danio are quite energetic too so should be ok?

What corys  would you consider?


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## mort (14 May 2020)

I agree with alto that you'd be better off with larger groups rather than smaller numbers of more species. There is a cory for everyone so see what's available locally, there is probably a species that jumps out at you. It's hard to beat panda cories and I'm guessing you have harder London water, some other species do best with softer water but pandas are very adaptable.

A lot of what we see in shops will be fine in differing water hardness but your current stock do well with hard water so looking at fish that do the same would be my choice, so perhaps consider one of the smaller rainbowfish instead, perhaps praecox.


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## alto (14 May 2020)

Be careful that you don’t let those zebra danios convince you that they are living on the edge of starvation - I’ve seen some that were easily 3x normal danio size - this is also a consideration re fish that you keep with them as they are very fast to the food, very fast eaters, and their activity can discourage less confident tankmates

You may need to trial various ways of getting sufficient food to the Corydoras without having the bulk taken by the danios (eg, if you have a sand area in the tank, cory’s will sift through for food, feed after dark)

I’d keep 3 mollies rather than 2 - asymmetry is more aesthetically pleasing to the human eye - and one can’t endlessly hassle the other - or more depending ... mollies aren't often chosen as main display fish for planted tanks but they are quite lovely and interesting fish (and you may end up with loads of babies to move on)
Some of the newer colors varieties may be a mix of Platy/Molly/Sword genetics

A fun Molly article from PFK
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/mollys-the-word/

Of note, the “Amazon Molly” was first reported in southern Texas in 1953 and as of 2017 has invaded 13 water regions

Mollies are a hard water or brackish water species, Corydoras are a soft water species - if you’re using tap water, look for locally bred or tank bred Cory’s and avoid any wild caught (these are usually (much) more expensive depending on species, avoid the dwarf Corydoras as they’re more likely to be wild caught - they usually seem OK initially but gradually disappears from tanks)


If you’ve watched George Farmers EA1200 videos, he began with a group of several Pearl Gourami’s, but as time went on, some looked to be somewhat harassed - there’s currently a M and F visible but they don’t seem particularly simpatico
Most gourami species are naturally territorial fish but again I don’t know that I’d mix these with zebra danios - if you do,  just monitor food and behaviour  (and the danios may nip at those long fin extensions)


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## Sirkavu (15 May 2020)

Hi @alto 

Just read about the amazon molly.... holly sh** haha now we know the secret of clones..

I just came backast afternoon to find my girlfriend got 4 honey gourami... she said I was too indecisive so she picked for me.  they are beautiful tho

Now I am thinking on maybe put more plants around, which will help with the cherry shrimp colony,  and maybe just German blue ram or just ottos?

I need to maybe re do my 45l so she can have her own fishes.. 😆

@mort i was thinking g 4 h gourami / 10 zebra danios / 4 rams or 6 ottos


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## alto (15 May 2020)

Sirkavu said:


> just came backast afternoon to find my girlfriend got 4 honey gourami... she said I was too indecisive



Wild type honey gourami or “sunset” or “golden” or ??? 

I’d try 2M 3F rams - start with juveniles 
(read some of the ram discussion threads before selecting)

Otocinclus obviously do a different sort of job than the rams ... I’d likely add 3-4 otocinclus 
(though many will suggest a larger group, I’ve never had any luck getting mine to eat garden veg so limit numbers to algae/plant load - they were very happy to rasp sword leafs and Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' leafs )


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## alto (15 May 2020)

Sirkavu said:


> need to maybe re do my 45l so she can have her own fishes.. 😆


Get her scaping too


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## Sirkavu (16 May 2020)

Hi @alto 

I doubt they are wild. She said it said honey gourami só I’d say sunset gourami.

I honestly like the rams and think color wise would be a great addition. Will read more about them to understand more.

Regarding Otto, believe it or not I love them. They are shy but on my previous tank that I have in one os my business, I enjoyed them..

Need to make a decision haha


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## Sirkavu (16 May 2020)

alto said:


> Get her scaping too


Yeah!!! It’s something I’ll push for her to start with the small one


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## mort (16 May 2020)

Sirkavu said:


> Hi @alto
> 
> 
> 
> @mort i was thinking g 4 h gourami / 10 zebra danios / 4 rams or 6 ottos



Those are sensible group numbers but my concern would be the mixture of sexes in the gourami and rams. Alto has written a lot about rams so I trust his knowledge on them. It's a long time since I've kept dwarf gourami because they are notoriously weak (with all the captive breeding) and aggressive, so getting the right mix helps a lot. You have a good amount of room for them to avoid each other if they want to and breaking the lines of site in the tank with tall plants or hardscape is good general advice. Do you know which sexes you have?


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## Sirkavu (16 May 2020)

Hi @mort 

I have 3 females and 1 male within the gourami. They seems still shy, not much, but they do kind their own business.

With this new addition 😅 I just want to geta bit more plants so they can all have space to run and hide if needed and for the C shrimps to hide too.

I might not get the rams and go for Otto if they’re not compatible and a community.


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## mort (16 May 2020)

A 3 to 1 ratio is perfect.


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## milla (16 May 2020)

alto said:


> Otocinclus obviously do a different sort of job than the rams ... I’d likely add 3-4 otocinclus
> (though many will suggest a larger group, I’ve never had any luck getting mine to eat garden veg so limit numbers to algae/plant load - they were very happy to rasp sword leafs and Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan' leafs )



Hi, 

Try them with meaty foods most are  not really a fan of algae / veg,  The reason they are all over plant leaves and hardscape isn't for the algae its for the biofilm and the microorganisms that grow /and live in it.though there are some that require wood as part of there diet also.
If you want to fatten up  and keep / spawn healthy otto's try feeding plenty of samll live foods (micro worms / grindle worms / bllodworms).  Plenty of samll frozen foods  (brineshrimp / cyclops / daphnia) etc.  
They also go nuts for certain small sinking dried food.    Bug bites (nuts for feeding frenzy time), tetra colur granuals red astrax and some sinking catfish pellets.   But will avoid algae wafers like the plaque. 

It's also advisable when introducing new ottos to your tanks to allow some mulm build up  around base of plants ( or squeeze dirty filter media into a clean quarantine tank) as they apparently pick up some form of bacteria they need in there gut from it.    

IMo yes the more the merrier but lots of people end up eventually with one that lives on its own for years


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## Richard40 (16 May 2020)

Milla, if you don't have a quarantine tank and want to introduce some otto's, what do you suggest? Also, how many weeks after set up would you suggest?


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## milla (16 May 2020)

Richard40 said:


> Milla, if you don't have a quarantine tank and want to introduce some otto's, what do you suggest? Also, how many weeks after set up would you suggest?



Well if you don't have a qt tank then they are going straight into the tank.  
Same rule applies staight to tank or from qt I would only want to be putting them into an aged tank.   
Which is different to cycled, by aged i mean a tank thats had time for all the bacteria and micro organisms to have established and be thriving.   Preferably one thats got / had fish living and thriving in it . If you have a thriving shrimp colony in the tank you are probably good to go.

I look for algae on back glass / rocks etc as an indicator of an aged tank over cycled.

Snails are they thriving and multiplying ( i seed all my new tanks with a couple of ramshorn snails).  If yuor snail colony is growing then theres food, deitrus & mulm for the ottos.

You can also add botanicals / catapa leaves etc to the tank these will break down and provide infusoria and all sorts of goodies your ottos & shrimp will feast on.

If i was forced to pick how many weeks from new tank i would say 8 weeks after first fish added at least.


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## Richard40 (16 May 2020)

Ok, that's fine. Mine is a little different as my filter has been running for months and so therefore will have lots of beneficial bacteria already in there. I think I will still wait 8 weeks before I add any though as they are delicate.


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## milla (16 May 2020)

Richard40 said:


> Ok, that's fine. Mine is a little different as my filter has been running for months and so therefore will have lots of beneficial bacteria already in there. I think I will still wait 8 weeks before I add any though as they are delicate.



Yes it's all about the aged tank not filter.    The filter keeps things ssealed away nohings available to the fish.
You can add a mature filter to a new setup and get away with adding some fish imediately with care and attention.
But the tank is still effectivly sterile for a period of time until nature takes its course.


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## jaypeecee (16 May 2020)

Sirkavu said:


> I honestly like the rams and think color wise would be a great addition. Will read more about them to understand more.
> 
> Regarding Otto, believe it or not I love them. They are shy but on my previous tank that I have in one os my business, I enjoyed them...



Hi @Sirkavu 

I have kept and bred German Blue Rams (GBRs). They prefer higher temperatures than most fish and attention to water quality is particularly important but not difficult to achieve. @alto referenced _Seriously Fish_ above. That will provide useful information and there's also:

https://www.fishbase.de/search.php

It may be better to search for Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi.

As for Otocinclus, yes, I can't imagine keeping tanks without them. They need an established tank (running for at least three months). This will allow some biofilm and soft microalgae to develop. In one of my tanks, they like to graze on the roots of Anubias. I have always found Otos to be much more active at late evening/night.

The following is a nice, informative read:

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/features/keeping-otocinclus-catfish-in-the-aquarium/

JPC


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## Sirkavu (17 May 2020)

milla said:


> Yes it's all about the aged tank not filter.    The filter keeps things ssealed away nohings available to the fish.


Hi @milla , I have my tank running for almost 2 years now. Should have enough good in it no? I’ve changed plants 3 times but the rest remains. Oh and some fishes.

@jaypeecee thank you for the links. Tuesday I’m off I’ll spend the morning learning more about the rams and Ottos.  I’ll get some plants in as well so it gets more dense and after add the fishes


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## milla (18 May 2020)

Sirkavu said:


> Hi @milla , I have my tank running for almost 2 years now. Should have enough good in it no? I’ve changed plants 3 times but the rest remains. Oh and some fishes.


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