# Diatoms, again.



## Tom (28 Mar 2011)

My Mini M has been up for over 2 and a half months now, and just get steadily worse like my other tanks. Just as with the 10 liter, it started well with no algae. Then got fairly heavily attacked by the 'flat' diatoms for a week or two only on the rocks, but then receded very quickly. They were then taken over by the 'stringy', 'mushy' diatoms which have never left and continue to get worse. 

I had accepted that these diatoms might have been caused by the HC adapting to the new submersed conditions as some of it had melted where the algae appeared. Now it's just getting silly. The HC is now growing pretty well, and the diatoms have spread to previously very healthy areas of the tank. 

The HM I added melted within a week of planting it, which I also don't understand. The rest of the stems look really nasty below the top growing tips.  

There must be a reason why I can't keep a tank going these days, but a couple of years ago I had great success with almost no problems whatsoever. If you spot anything I'm doing wrong or not doing, please point it out!! I'm getting fed up of wasting so much money. 

The pics:












Here's the info:

25 liter tank
Light: Back to 18w again from 24.
Filter: Eheim Ecco Pro 300 (700lph)
CO2: Back to 1.5 bps again, with atomizer - I'm sure it's overkill

Daily Ferts: 
2ml Spezial N
2ml Flow Grow Mikro
2ml Brighty K
0.45ppm PO4
0.4ppm MgSO4 started in the last couple of days
1.5ml Aqua Carbon/Excel
Green Gain

Maintenance: Daily 50%+ water change before lights and ferts with tap water heated to room temperature over night. Removal of some diatoms with tweezers, filter rinse in old water once a week.

Crew: 1 Oto (1 died), 4 Amano Shrimp (don't seem to eat algae any more, but did to start with!)


----------



## chump54 (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

Hi Tom... I hate it too when they don't go the way you want.

are you sure it is diatoms? I have never seen them looking that stringy... always a brown 'dust' covering everything. could it be Spirogyra or Rhizoclonium?

I've been battling diatoms in my nano at the moment ... I've increased the flow and it seems to have sorted it out. I swapped the filter for a bigger one and used a spraybar. so far it seems to have done the trick. You seem to have loads of filter power there might be worth trying the spraybar for a while?

good luck, stick with it 

Chris


----------



## Tom (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

Thanks for the reply,

It's getting pummeled by flow, so I doubt that's a cause. The worst affected area is opposite the outlet so the water goes down the wall and hits the HC. The algae blows all over the place in the flow. 

It was suggested in my journal that the diatoms can be either 'flat' and dusty, or a 'stringy' type - I am assuming that they're the stringy diatoms, but the other type have gone. It could by Spirogyra I suppose, and in that case, it's still caused by ammonia. Difference is, the things I've been doing to try and help the plants like more ferts etc (assuming plants were struggling and causing the diatoms) would fuel Spiro...


----------



## Tom (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

On closer inspection it might be two types of algae. Definitely a mushy-er brown type (that I thought/think were diatoms) and one that could possibly be Spiro. Here's a closer pic below - Haven't looked that close-in before now.


----------



## chump54 (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

you've cut the light down a bit so that should help. I don't know about spiro... had it once and beat it by pulling it off and then cutting away the infected area. what about the diluted easy carbo method, but i don't know if that works with spiro though.

Chris


----------



## gmartins (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

Hi Tom,

such a shame. Have you tried a blackout for 3-4 days? It may help.

cheers, GM


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

GM - I've just done a 3 day black out. Took the covers off the tank a second ago, but there doesn't seem to be any improvement in the algae. Shall I keep going with the Blackout? I know I've now lost Both Otos, and maybe shrimp but I don't know


----------



## Anonymous (31 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*

Mate you do rush into things.
Take a toothbrush and remove all the algae you can then do a water change.
*Stop doing so many water changes afterward*, let the things settle down, bacteria to grow etc.

I'd cut the following fertilizers:

2ml Spezial N
2ml Flow Grow Mikro
0.45ppm PO4
1.5ml Aqua Carbon/Excel (this is poison, nobody can change my mind about that)
Green Gain

Add some 10ppm o magnesium weekly (and if no extra growth is noticed then there's enough in your tap) so you can cut this one also.
Use only Step 1, Brighty K at weekly water change and if some BGA appears add a little bit more Nitrate.
You have a wonderful soil there, try to take advantage of it and let the plants use it.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## mdhardy01 (31 Mar 2011)

Hi Tom 
Have you thought about adding some easy carbo or exel ?
This would help clear the problem but obviously not deal with the route cause
Matt


----------



## mdhardy01 (31 Mar 2011)

Sorry Tom just noticed that you are adding already
Try upping the dose
Matt


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

Thanks, yeah I have been using the AquaEssentials version. I added my normal dose yesterday and a larger dose today to see if there is any effect. Just read the packet and I'm at 4x overdose at the moment. Could this be hurting my HC in particular?


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

*Re: Diatoms, again. Getting fed up now.*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Mate you do rush into things.
> Take a toothbrush and remove all the algae you can then do a water change.
> *Stop doing so many water changes afterward*, let the things settle down, bacteria to grow etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mike, I will do exactly that! The way I had understood it, the more water changes the better, and it doesn't matter if ferts are overdosed so that's what I've been doing. I'll try reverting back to the ADA system then, and report back   
Tom


----------



## Anonymous (31 Mar 2011)

Yes the more the merrier but it's time consuming and we have in the end to enjoy our tanks not spend all the time changing the water & dosing . I think yours has passed the initial phase when daily wc were required, now do one every other day then decrease the frequency to one wc a week. Dose lean, the plants developed their roots, the soil is rich and can sustain their growth.

Don't care much about algae, the toothbrush can handle them and in time they'll disappear when things settle in.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

One thing that hasn't happened as much as I thought was root development. Is that due to a heavily dosed water column?

Thank you for the advice! I hope this works. My last two successful tanks went without any issues at all using the ADA system, but Malaya soil rather than Amazonia and I dosed N and P with Special Lights. I've gone from being scared of too many nutrients to the complete opposite in a couple of years! Will ease up a bit and see how it goes. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (10 Apr 2011)

Can anyone confirm whether this is Spiro or Diatoms? Thinking it might actually be Rhizo? I know there's some Staghorn there, and there's now loads of BBA on the wood. I've increased the CO2 a few times recently.


----------



## dw1305 (10 Apr 2011)

Hi all,
The fine tangled threads are _Rhizoclonium_ or similar. There maybe diatoms in the biofilm as well, but very few diatoms form obvious threads. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Tom (10 Apr 2011)

Thanks Darrel. That and the BBA/Staghorn still point to CO2 then. I've got the spray bar now with higher and more even flow, plus the CO2 is up to 2bps again alongside 1ml Excel so hopefully there will be an improvement. I'll try again. Again 

Cheers


----------



## viktorlantos (10 Apr 2011)

i would simple double the size of the amanos in your tank. the only problem is the nano size. i am sure they would escape before they would finish up the task.


----------



## Garuf (12 Apr 2011)

Did you come to a solution, Tom?


----------



## Tom (13 Apr 2011)

Other than whacking up the CO2 and re-dosing Excel at 1ml daily, no. It's still growing quickly. As does the BBA and Staghorn seem to be, but we'll see - I've only just upped the CO2 again. I lost the Otos at 1bps, and I'm now just over 2. 

I've got a new full length and very nice clear acrylic spray bar from bigmatt, so hopefully if there were any flow issues, it will be sorted now. Must be 15x turnover if the Eheim hits about 50% of it's potential.


----------



## bigmatt (13 Apr 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> I've got a new full length and very nice clear acrylic spray bar from bigmatt, so hopefully if there were any flow issues, it will be sorted now.


I agree - it IS a LOVELY spray bar     
Glad you like it mate - finally forced me to make one for my tank!  I'd forgotten how easy they are to build.  Can't believe more suppliers don't supply them as standard (are you listening Eheim!?!?!?!?!?!??)
Cheers!
Matt


----------



## cogo (5 Nov 2012)

Hi, 
Can you describe what was the final of this battle, please? It is really important to know if these all advises were correct.

Cheers!
Krzysztof


----------

