# Getting algae after starting EI dosing, what to do?



## chris1004 (6 Feb 2009)

Since I have started EI dosing I am experiencing several types of algae and although I know that it is not the dosing itself that has caused the problem I wondered what I should do about it.

When I started the ei dosing a few weeks ago it was at the same time as installing a second external filter and a new fire extinguisher (which took a week or so to settle down) and I think that one of my plants may be a house plant (sold as aquatic at my lfs) which could be causing further problems. So I believe, from what I have read on this forum, that the algae problem has probably been caused by a combination of ammonia (from an uncycled filter and possibly a rotting plant) and fluctuating co2. The ferts have just been feeding the algae possibly compounding the problem.

I know from what I have read that I shouldn't back off the dosing which I won't and in time the new filter (bringing the total flow rate upto 10x the tank volume) will have cycled and there is already one cycled external filter there anyway. As for the possibly offending plant I can fairly easily check that out and remove it if it is, as suspected, non aquatic. The co2 I believe to be fairly stable now but I will be more confident of this once I have a drop checker installed as per advice received elsewhere on this forum. So the root cause of the problems I understand and have in hand so to speak, (I think).

Incidently the plant growth is amazing and they look so lush even after just 3 weeks or so of EI dosing, a transformation that I wouldn't have believed possible. The algae is only a slight annoyance which I'm sure can be sorted out somehow.  

When I say an algae problem its nothing really major but I do have BBA, GSA, staghorn and hair algae visible in certain areas within the tank now. Will these go naturally in time or do I need to treat the tank with an algacide of some sort once everything has settled down?


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## Superman (6 Feb 2009)

When you have an algae infested tank, the best thing to do is remove any effected leaves as soon as you spot it and also by then performing a few water changes.

Each algae will have a cause and so you can see what their cause is by using the sticky in this forum section or James' Planted Tank Algae Guide (if you search through google). Remember that dosing the suggested amount of ferts under the principles of EI might not be enough as some spots in the tank aren't getting enough. I think it took me a few weeks to work out the right dosing levels for my tank, although I think I went a bit overkill and are now reducing the amounts.

It sounds like you already know one of the issues (co2) and are addressing the flow but make sure that both your filters are working together to improve flow around all areas of the tank rather than cancelling out with each other.


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## chris1004 (6 Feb 2009)

It looks to me that the water is circulating around the tank quite nicely (i.e. most of the plants are swaying in the flow) and if it turns out that I need more flow I will simply fit a powerhead but until I have eliminated all other possible causes I won't bother as apart from the cost I try to keep anything thats not necessary out of the tank. The co2 is settled now and I'm very confident that it is sufficient from PH/KH tests that I've done (I'm getting a drop checker soon) and from what I can see in the tank itself. It's just that there was a period of a week or so where it fluctuated wildly which I'm sure hasn't helped. Nor has the presence of ammonia. So I understand why I've got algae and I'm fairly confident that I know how to remedy the cause (I hope I don't regret those words, LOL) but how do I get rid of the algae that I now have?


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## ceg4048 (7 Feb 2009)

chris1004 said:
			
		

> ...I do have BBA, GSA, staghorn and hair algae visible in certain areas within the tank now...


These are all CO2 related. Add more CO2 and you will fix your problems.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (8 Feb 2009)

Hi Clive, 

I have now fitted a drop checker (yesterday) and the PH isn't as low as I thought around 6.8 but with a kh of 4 in the drop checker the co2 is nearer 20ppm than the 30ppm that I thought I had so that proves you are right about the co2, but then you knew that anyway, I'm not worthy (said on hands and knees whilst motioning up and down with my arms waynes world style  ). 

Will the algae that I now have go once the co2 is higher or do I need to treat it? Flourish excel seems to be the thing to use from james's planted tank website or do I not need to bother if I raise the co2? incedently I have fitted the drop checker at the opposite end of the tank to the co2 input is this right?


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## ceg4048 (9 Feb 2009)

Hey Chris,
       Be Excellent! (plays air guitar)  

If the infestation isn't too bad then upping the CO2 will prevent more of these algae from getting a stronghold but may not eliminate them. Algae like CO2 as well so you will probably have to mechanically remove what's there and be quite brutal about it. Any infected leaf must be removed mercilessly and I'd suggest you increase your water change frequency to remove the spores created by the growth that is there. It will also help to lower the lighting for a few weeks. BBA will be the most difficult so I would suggest adding daily Excel/Easycarbo per bottle instructions.

You know it almost doesn't matter where you place the dropchecker because the CO2 concentration at the dropchecker location is not what it is at the surface of the individual leaves or within the plant bed. There can be an order of magnitude difference across the tank. Neither light energy nor nutrient nor CO2 levels in the tank are homogeneous however, yes, placing the checker as far away from the CO2 source gives you a better idea than if it was placed near the source.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (9 Feb 2009)

Thanks Superman and Clive for your help.


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## chris1004 (14 Feb 2009)

Ok a quick update,

The co2 is now stable at 30ppm and I have got hold of some flousish excel today and will start dosing as per instructions on the bottle daily from tommorow (after my weekly 50% water change) and last night I did as you said and removed all infected leaves (and yes I was brutal and found it a bit heartbreaking) and I also scrubbed the tank background with a stiff brush (immitation rock face) then did a 50% water change. For a few weeks I will continue to do a 50% water change twice a week and I will just use a 40w t8 on for 8hrs per day instead of my usual daytime lighting of 2x54w t5's. Do you think this is the way to go for the lighting temporarily? I only have a combination of 1x40w t8 and/or 2x54w t5's available to me at the moment.


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## ceg4048 (14 Feb 2009)

Yep, I'd keep the lighting low (the 40 watt bulb) for a week or two and only slowly increase it. Sorry, I can't recall the tank size so I can't say if 40 W T8 is too low. It takes at least a week for the plants to adapt to a new stable CO2 level.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (14 Feb 2009)

Thanks for your quick reply Clive.

The tank is 250litre but in reality after the hardscape is subtracted there is nearer 200litres of water there.

Do I need to reduce the co2 then if I am reducing the lighting, I am thinkin 'not' but it would be nice to get some conformation. Or have I misunderstood and you mean that it takes a week for them to get use to the 30ppm that I now have as opposed to the 20ppm that I had before I fitted the drop checker? Sorry to keep hassling you with so many questions.


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## ceg4048 (15 Feb 2009)

Hi Chris,
            No hassle mate. That's why we're here.  

Remember that as far as light is concerned it doesn't matter how much water you have because the light spreads out over the volume of the tank and it's distribution is limited only by the bulb's placement and it's physical properties. The effect the water has on the light is it's turbidity, not it's quantity.

In any case a 40W bulb may be a bit low for a 60G tank long term but it should be OK for a week or two to kick the algae in the shin.

Lowering the light and increasing the CO2 to 30ppm or more is the combination that will benefit the plants most. If you lower the CO2 you can put yourself back in the same situation of low CO2. Apologies if I was unclear. 

Maintaining high CO2 allows the plants to adapt to high CO2. Maintaining low CO2 likewise allows the plants to adapt to low CO2. High light creates a demand for high CO2. Low light lowers the demand for CO2. Therefore the combination of high light + low CO2 means that there is a high _demand_ for CO2 but that there is insufficient CO2 to _meet_ this demand. This is the problem you have now and that's why the plants are suffering.

Hope this clarifies...

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (15 Feb 2009)

Thanks again Clive. I will update this in a couple of weeks time just to let you know how I get on.


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## chris1004 (1 Mar 2009)

chris1004 said:
			
		

> Thanks again Clive. I will update this in a couple of weeks time just to let you know how I get on.




Ok so here's the update two weeks on.

I did as you said and kept the main t5 lights off and had a 40w t8 on for 8hours a day instead, I did a 50% water change every other day (that was pretty hard work as I use 100% ro water which meant producing 100 litres every other day) and I  dosed with flourish excel to the instructions on the bottle as advised. I must admit to being a bit worried as it said "do not overdose" on the bottle, but on the rear it said add 5ml per 40litres if you are doing a 40% or over water change, then add 5ml daily. I was concerned that they hadn't bargained for a 50% water change every other day when they printed that so I did err on the side of caution a couple of times by not dosing immediatly after the water change instead just adding the daily dose. I tried as best I could to continue dosing ferts regularly through the two weeks and if anything dosed more than I normally do to try to keep excess ferts available to the plants even though it was probably futile with the reduced lighting. 

Anyway the result as far as the algae goes is that Staghorn, Thread and BBA are all completly gone hopefully never to return but there has still been some GSA appearing on some of the leaves and on the immitation rockface background. I have continued to remove any leaf that I found with GSA on them and a couple of times through the course of treatment before the water change I scrubbed the background with a stiff brush and then spot dosed the flourish excel before topping the tank back up with fresh water. 

I kind of figured that the GSA is particularly stubborn because it was the most prevailant form of algae that was in my tank to start with and the rockface background was particularly badly effected by it. When coupled with using 100% ro water I have kind of figured that there isn't enough phosphate in the water column to keep it at bay so I have added an extra teaspoon of kh2po4 to the tank today in an attempt to raise the phosphate level to over 10ppm. Is this course of action the best way to go? I surely hope so as I have already done it as I didn't think that the extra ferts would harm anything.

The downside of this course of treatment though is that some of my plants have been effected by it. My twisted vallis, pogostemon helferi, glosso and another grass like plant which I don't know the name of, have all died back a bit. With a bit of TLC I am sure they will be alright in time though. From what I understand the grassy plants don't do well with the flourish excel and the ground coverage plants suffer when the lighting is reduced which probably explains things a little.

Hopefully I now have all of my bases covered and life will be good once again with regard to my planted tank, If you read this Clive thanks again for your help mate I really do appreciate it.


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## ceg4048 (5 Mar 2009)

Hi Chris,
          Glad you were able to break the stranglehold mate.  
The extra PO4 should help clear the GSA although this will take a few more weeks. You just have to keep scrubbing. To truly test the effectiveness of your improved CO2 injection rate and flow you would have to slowly decrease and ultimately delete the Excel addition. If none of the algae reappears after a few weeks then you can proceed to add the higher lighting in very small time increments, say, an hour per day at the midday, then up to two hours per day. As you'll be aware by now, any re-occurrence of these types of algae will indicate that CO2 for the new lighting level is inadequate and you will have to improve injection rate and drop back down to the previous lighting scheme. This  is excruciating but you'll learn more and it will prevent outbursts. In any case you now know the relationship between light and CO2 so just take it easy and you'll be up to Las Vegas lighting levels before you know it.  

Cheers,


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## plantbrain (6 Mar 2009)

Just keep on top of things, watch CO2, add enough ferts frequently, dothe water changes, same old thing.

This really has not changed going back 2 decades.

Getting folks to double check and make sure CO2 is not an issue, to reduce their light etc, has been nothing short of pulling teeth at times however.

It's when we start being smug and thinking we can go longer without caring for the tank, neglect it etc, then things louse up, then we work hard to regain what we had, then maintain from there.

Everyone makes mistaes, no big deal, work, fix it, and then stay on top of things.
Too much? Reduce the light and keep it low. That ill reduce the issues and slow the growth.

So rather than nutrient or CO2 imitation, you light limit the tank to control growth.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2009)

plantbrain said:
			
		

> Just keep on top of things, watch CO2, add enough ferts frequently, dothe water changes, same old thing.
> 
> This really has not changed going back 2 decades.
> 
> ...



hit the nail on the head there!



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> So rather than nutrient or CO2 imitation, you light limit the tank to control growth.
> 
> something i'm doing next. you've just answered my yet to be asked question


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## plantbrain (10 Mar 2009)

Good, glad common sense got to you before "_they_" did  

Bit of an uphill battle, it's easier to just accept a myth and speculate than do any real logic or test, and I'm not in it for $, fame(ain't none to be had) or sales(Not a company or brand name). 

So the main thing, the market, is really helping hobbyists, helping them save a huge amount of $$$, labor, time etc.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## chris1004 (25 Apr 2009)

OK a couple of months on and I'm still suffering GSA. 

On a plus note its not as bad as it was and staghorn, BBA and hair algae haven't returned and things have improved somewhat but its heartbreaking to keep pulling infected leaves off the plants and seems like one step foward and another one back all the time.

I am reaching the end of my tether with GSA to the point of considering buying an algacide and running a course of this through my tank but I'm worried about doing more damage than good. I have been scrubbing the artificial rock face background and wiping it down with flourish excel every time I do a water change and  its now pretty clear of the damn stuff but the GSA keeps appearing on plant leaves which I susequently remove but it still comes back. I am dosing 1/2 a teaspoon of kh2po4 three times a week so would expect to have in excess of 10ppm of phosphate in the tank which is backed up by my test results (even if my test kit is not entirly accurate its the best indicator I have available).

Its now official, I detest GSA with a passion. Please help, what else can I do to get rid this stuff once and for all?


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## ceg4048 (25 Apr 2009)

Hi Chris,
           If you're adding plenty of PO4 then we have to look some more at CO2, flow and distribution. I'd rather stay away from algecides because for one thing, it doesn't solve the reason the GSA is occurring and secondly it damages the plants as well. You'd be better off doing a blackout. Are you still supplementing with Excel? If not you can start adding the dosing per bottle. Are you at the limit of injection rate? You can also turn the gas on a little bit earlier as well. I think tweaking flow/CO2 will kick it.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (26 Apr 2009)

Hi Clive.

Apart from using the flourish excel to wipe down the background I'm not putting any more in. But it does take quite a lot to wipe it down and its probably about equivalent to dosing as per instructions post weekly water change. The reason that I am not adding any further flourish excel is that my twisted vallis doesn't seem to like it much, and I like the vallis quite a lot.

The co2 drop checker is always lime green bordering on yellow and the last FE only lasted about 10 weeks so I don't think that co2 is an issue. 

Flow distribution could be a problem but to me it looks like everything is moving around nicely but I am inexperienced with planted tanks and I'm not entirely sure of how much is enough with regard to flow. The combination of the rating of my filters is about 10times the tank volume and they are now both nicely matured, I clean them out roughly once a month and dismantle and clean all the pipes every other month aswell.  There does seem to be one or two definate areas within the tank which get more GSA than others, which obviously indicates flow distribution being an issue and I have been considering three options to target additional flow in those areas. 

1/ Adding a korilia powerhead. But I'd rather avoid this if possible because ideally i want to keep visible hardware in the tank to a bare minimum. Also some of the currents in the tank do seem particularly strong and I am a little concerned about increasing them further and pinning my fish to the side of the tank.LOL.  

2/ Moving one or two of the larger plants around to aid flow distribution. But I don't want to unduly upset the status quo of things if its unnecessary and ultimatly doesn't solve the problem.

3/ Targeting individual areas with strategically placed airstones. If this would work then it may be the best bet as I can easily hide the hardware and a few bubbles here and there which can easily be turned off for viewing purposes won't harm anything. Do you think this would work? 

I don't think that the immitation rockface is helping me at all as it seems to be a perfect medium for algae to grow on being very rough with some deep inaccesible cracks where flow could not possibly penitrate and I seriously wish that I had never installed it in the first place. I am considering stripping it out and chucking the damn thing in the bin and just chalking it up to experience. In your opinion/experience should I give up on it?

The reason that I'm considering an algacide even though I understand that its a bit of a drastic measure is to hopefully level the playing field as it were as I seem to have been playing catchup from the very beginning. If I use it and GSA comes back then I will know that things aren't quite right. At the moment it appears that no matter how clear I think I have the tank the GSA always has a stronghold somewhere and I really have had enough of pulling out infected leaves and think that a course of algacide would do less overall damage than the constant removal of otherwise healthy leaves.

You mentioned a blackout as another option what is the best way to do this and how will it affect my fish and plants? Will it also level the preverbial playing field? 

Don't get me wrong about this though the tank is hardly infested (yet) and overall over 95% of the tank is completly algae free with tremendous plant growth (thats another entirely different problem but a nice one to have).

Thanks.


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## ceg4048 (26 Apr 2009)

Well, CO2 is always an issue and so I never dismiss it, regardless of what the dropchecker says. You could add a Koralia just to see if it has a positive effect. If so then you'll know what the answer is and you can then decide to find a less obtrusive way to get flow to that particular area. It's not clear to me why you have uneven currents or what your configuration looks like so it's difficult to analyze for possible changes. Could you show us an image? Also, which plants are getting the GSA? Anubias is notoriously susceptible to GSA for example. 

I'm not sure what purpose adding an airstone would serve. Bubbles would merely outgas the very same CO2 that we're trying to keep dissolved in solution so in my opinion their use would be completely counterproductive. 

I also disagree completely with the idea of chucking everything and restarting. The reason you have algae is because of your technique, not because of some alien invader sabotaging the tank. 99 times out of a hundred folks who chuck and restart have exactly the same problems the second time because they have the same equipment and the same mindset so they make the same mistakes. Algae won't go away just because you chuck and restart. Algae spores are in every tank on the planet, waiting for poor technique and waiting for plants to suffer. After implementing good technique it can take weeks or even months for the plants to get healthy enough to resist the attacks. Chucking the lot or dumping algaecide in a tank are desperate resorts. In any case aren't you the guy who is super paranoid about toxic chemicals in the tank? And throwing herbicides in the tank is actually being considered? What's up with that one mate? :? Take a deep breath, brew some tea and take a reality break.

A blackout consists of first doing a massive water change, then shutting down the lights and wrapping the tank in black material such as bin liners so that no ambient light can penetrate the glass. CO2 is shut down, but dosing continues as per schedule - but only dose at night, in the dark. This continues for 3 or even 4 days in extreme cases. At the end of the period another massive water change is done and everything resumes as normal. The plants take a hit but not as much as the algae. They recover much more rapidly that if they were nuked by algecide. That's the only real leveling of playing field. As far as the fish they just get on with it. it's just an extended night time for them so no big deal.

By the way, if a leaf has algae on it, then that means that it's not healthy. This is a fundamental mindset that has to be adopted. Algae is not an accessory or a hitchhiker. It is more like a vulture because it's attacking unhealthy tissue. The leaves are unhealthy because they are suffering from some form of malnutrition. The plants/leaves that are algae free and those that are healthy.

If the tank is 95% algae free then I hardly think it's cause for panic. If you're getting good growth from most plants then you are on the right path and that you just need a bit more tweaking. As the plants grow their needs increase. The mass increase demands more nutrients, more CO2 and more of everything. 

You can also move those particular plants that suffer to another location in the tank to troubleshoot. See if they do better. Sometime moving a plant just a few inches has a dramatic impact so that's something else to consider.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (27 Apr 2009)

Thanks for your answer Clive as always food for thought.

Just a couple of things to clear up.

I'm only thinking about stripping the immitation rockface background out not stripping down the whole tank and starting again as I feel certain that it is causing me problems by providing GSA a perfect stronghold from where it can launch its attacks on the rest of my tank. Mind you thinking about that option while I write this I realise that that wouldn't be such a bad thing and could prove interesting as I could reuse all the good plants that I now have, not to mention that its actually fun to refresh the aquascape if you have the time.

You are quite right of course about my paranoia over water quality with regard to my fish and if I were to treat the tank with an algecide then I would simply move them into another tank for a while whilst the treatment and subsequent water changes were done. Sorry I didn't mention that, at the moment the algacide is just a consideration and not a definate go ahead so it wasn't relevant in the context. Having a think and a cup of tea for a while is always a great option though, LOL.   

Good point well made about using airstones so that rules that one out. 

So that leaves me with adding a korilia powerhead for more flow and doing a blackout (sounds like a plan). I may also rehouse my fish for a while anyway and crank up the co2 until all the GSA is gone and if that fails then use an algeside followed by a lot of large water changes. 

At least if I get onto a level playing field with no visible algae in the tank I can be certain that if it comes back then I still haven't got things quite right. At the moment I feel that there have been so many changes over the past few months that any number of things (or combinations of) could have started it off and I'm just struggling to keep it in check at  the moment rather than preventing it getting a stranglehold in the first place. Once clear I hope it won't come back as I'm fairly sure that I have everything right i.e. CO2,flow,ferts,lighting and filtration. But if I haven't then this will be brought to light (by the re-emergance of the GSA) and I can reassess my situation then.  

Thanks.


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## ceg4048 (27 Apr 2009)

Hi Chris,
              It's quite possible the the rockface background is negatively impacting flow/distribution. I reckon that deleting it will have a positive effect. It might be visually more appealing as well if you just use background paper.  

For more effective troubleshooting, it's a good idea to do one thing at a time and wait a few weeks so I'd think about removal of the rockface and taking a reading. If you use a shotgun and change a whole bunch of things at once you'd only be able to guess what the effective solution was.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (2 May 2009)

I've ordered a korilia powerhead (taking the total rated flow to 20x tank volume) and will try adjusting the flow to start with as its the least painfull option at the moment. I've also decided on running another course of reduced lighting, large water changes and flourish excel in the coming weeks as it worked wonders last time and may be enough to do the trick again. Certainly worth another try at least. If that fails then I will do a blackout.  

Removing the background although still on the cards could be troublesome as its sealed in with black silicone sealant and could prove to be a long and messy job. Not quite sure how easy or otherwise it will prove to be and I'm a little afraid of taking the plunge. Can silicone sealant (the black jewel stuff) be easily removed from the glass (inside rear of tank)? Ultimatly after consideration I would rather not take it out if I can get away with it so this will have to remain a last resort, but I do feel that it is causing me more trouble than its worth and regret fitting it in the first place.

Took another look at my ferts aswell and as far as they are concerened I am certain that the macro mix I'm using is fine (6 teaspoons kh2po4,6 teaspoons kno3 & 18 teaspoons mgso4 - 600ml ro water dosing 50ml 3 times a week) but I wasn't so sure about the micro mix. I use the AE trace element mix and was dosing as per their instructions (i.e 1.5 teaspoons - 200ml ro water dosing 25ml twice per week). Because I am using 100% remineralised ro water I have kind of got to thinking that maybe there isn't enough of the right trace elements in the water so I've doubled my dosage this week. It could be my imagination but my plants seem to have responded well to this. Can they respond this quickly or is it imagined? and could the additional trace elements cause me any problems (I'm thinking 'not' but it would be nice to have this clarified)?

If the scattergun approach works I'll take it.LOL.  

Thanks again for all your help Clive it is truly appreciated.


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## ceg4048 (2 May 2009)

Hi Chris,
            The black silicone can be sliced through and the residue can be removed by shaving with a razor blade, but yes this is a messy affair, no doubt.

The AE dosing instructions are weak compared to that shown in the EI tutorial so it doesn't surprise me that adding more traces yields better performance. Just before you go to bed, sit in the lotus position and repeat this mantra five times; "Adding more traces does not cause problems"....

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (3 May 2009)

Cheers mate, will let you know how things progress in due course.


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## chris1004 (16 May 2009)

The backgrounds out!!!!   

and what a mission that proved to be.

Having got it out I am now as convinced as ever that it was causing me an awfull lot of my trouble. As you quite rightly pointed out Clive (if you read this mate) it was adversly affecting my flow distribution. Since its removal it is blatently obvious (even to a planted tank newbee like me) the difference in flow along the back wall of the tank. As for the background itself it was absolutly covered and I mean very thickly along its very top edge with algae. This area was directly below the lights and constantly damp with condensation, I suppose I shouldn't be suprised when you think about it. It took me quite a long time to strip it out and clean the rear glass of silicone but I am so glad I did as I never really stood a chance with it in the tank.

Whilst I was at it I also stripped the tank down completly and replanted with the good plants that I have now ammassed and although it was a long painstaking process I enjoyed it and now have a completly new 'scape' , which should (hopefully) flourish in time.

I also added a Koralia 1 to further improve flow and maintained the increase in trace element dosing. If the scattergun approach works thats fine by me.  

I know that its still early days but I do feel so confident that a large part of the root cause of my troubles has been addressed and armed with the knowledge that I have gained thus far through experience and the help that I have received from this website I am hopefull of succeeding. I know the plants will grow back its just about keeping the algae at bay. I will update this in a few months to see how things have progressed.

Thanks again Clive your a star with the patience of a saint.


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## ceg4048 (16 May 2009)

No worries mate.   Looking forward to seeing photos of the new configuration.  

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (16 May 2009)

Photos are a bit tricky for me to put on here as apart from not knowing how to I don't have a digital camera other than the one on my mobile phone which I'm sure is probably woefully inadequate. You never know though I may be able to get one of my 4 children (the youngest of which is 21) or their partners to take some photos for me and talk me through how to upload them onto this forum.   

And besides I would be embarressed to post a picture of my tank on here to stand side by side in comparison with some of the pictures of planted tanks that I've seen, yours included. I still have a lot to learn when it comes to plants, there placement within the tank and how to correctly prune them.


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## aaronnorth (16 May 2009)

chris1004 said:
			
		

> Photos are a bit tricky for me to put on here as apart from not knowing how to I don't have a digital camera other than the one on my mobile phone which I'm sure is probably woefully inadequate. You never know though I may be able to get one of my 4 children (the youngest of which is 21) or their partners to take some photos for me and talk me through how to upload them onto this forum.



viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2618


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## chris1004 (16 Jun 2009)

ok just a quick update 1 month on.


The tank appears to be completly devoid of algae yeeeeehaaaaaah, boooooshakaruudeboyindahouse!!!!!!! (thats clearly to much excitement for a grandad surely)     

After replanting I did suffer a little bit to start with as you would expect with non established plants but after dosing for the last couple of weeks with flourish excel (only recomended doses though) I can't see any algae anywhere in the tank and believe me I have looked hard.

So now I believe that I am on a level playing field and will reduce and evetually completly cut out the flourish excel dosing and see how things go.

Still crap at prunning though so a lot to learn yet.....


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## ceg4048 (16 Jun 2009)

Good stuff Chris. remember though that excel adds CO2 so as you withdraw it you may put the plants back into a CO2 deficit. You might consider tweaking up the gas slightly as you withdraw the liquid if you start to see hair strands. Just monitor very closely.

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (17 Jun 2009)

I check my co2 twice daily anyway Clive purely as a precaution against gassing my fish but I take your point on board and at least I know now what signs to look for and how to remedy the situation if algae occurs again. 

I feel that I have learnt a great deal in the last few months and you have been very instrumental in this. When I first came on this forum I thought that my plants looked healthy but I know now that that is only because I didn't really know what healthy plants look like. Gone is my installed hatred for po4 and no3. So now I can get on with the real job in hand and learn how to aquascape and maintain plants properly. 

Cheers.


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## LondonDragon (17 Jun 2009)

Another winner and proves once again that EI works very well if you get your head around it properly, and just stop blamming EI for the Algae when the user is at fault for its implementation.


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## chris1004 (17 Jun 2009)

chris1004 said:
			
		

> Since I have started EI dosing I am experiencing several types of algae and although I know that it is not the dosing itself that has caused the problem I wondered what I should do about it.



I don't know if I was reading your post wrong there LD but I wasn't blaming EI for getting algae and never did right from the start of this thread, above is the first line of the very first post. :?  :?  :?  



Fact is I did get algae when I started EI and your quite right the problem lay largly in the implementation but its all a learning curve surely. I never doubted that it would work eventually. 

I did get peed off with GSA for a while though and think that the textured background had an awfull lot to do with my problems which was never mentioned anywhere in any of the tutorials or posts that I come accross as a problem that could occur prior to me starting EI. Not that any of that matters now. 

Maybe it could be added as a footnote or somthing to one of the tutorials somewhere, possibly save someone else some grief somwhere along the line.


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## ceg4048 (17 Jun 2009)

Chris, we need more data before we can unequivocally blame the textured backgrounds as a contributing factor. In my mind it's obvious, but I have only your data and I believe one other persons report to go on. You made a multitude of changes to both your technique as well as the configuration so it's bad science to attribute the degree of improvement to the background removal alone, know what I mean? I would be on thin ice if I were to unilaterally advise to remove all textured backgrounds, even though I strongly suspect it as a severe flow disruptor. I'm sure it depends on the operating regime of the tank as well. In lower light scenarios it may not be as significant, but in higher light I reckon it's a serious culprit... 

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (17 Jun 2009)

chris1004 said:
			
		

> I don't know if I was reading your post wrong there LD but I wasn't blaming EI for getting algae and never did right from the start of this thread, above is the first line of the very first post. :?  :?  :?


Not having a dig at you Chris, just a lot of people lately have been blaming EI for their algae outbreaks and its nice to see someone overcome them and carry one using EI


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## chris1004 (17 Jun 2009)

LD, I wasn't sure if it was aimed at me or not  but I think I know who you mean now.

Clive, I know your right (as ever 8) ) and I accept the fact that I was, and still am, willing to use the scattergun approach to solve problems, normally I want it fixed and I want it fixed now and just don't have the patience for one thing at a time. 

I realise that its just my opinion about the background based on what I saw with my own eyes, thats all, not a scientific fact or anything and I dare say that the other changes that I made also had a benificial effect on the outcome. Ultimatly all I really care about is that the problem seems to be solved and hope that it doesn't return.

Thanks, Chris


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## chris1004 (26 Jun 2009)

Clive,

Yesterday whilst looking at my tank and scouring every leaf in site I noticed some GSA but only on one leaf in the whole tank. I stopped dosing flourish excel alltogether a little over a week ago (two water changes back). 

My immediate reaction was bu**er its coming back, as you might expect. 

So without further ado I reached in and cut out the offending leaf but it wasn't until the leaf was out and in my hand that I saw that it was badly damaged (torn almost in half). I'll be honest it blew me away a little that even though I've read and absorbed all that has been said that this one damaged leaf in the whole tank has been attacked by GSA, probably (hopefully) the only damaged one.  

I am now a total and utter convert to what you have been banging on about Clive, reading is one thing, but seeing it with your own eyes and understanding why is on another level entirely. 

Thankyou so much for showing me the way.


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## ceg4048 (26 Jun 2009)

Morpheus to Neo: "I can only show you the Door. You must walk through it." 8) 

Actually I'm not satisfied until you go another 2 weeks without distress. Remember we talked about Rubisco production reprogramming and the amount of time it takes? It's a rocky road with twists and turns. What was that Grimm's fairy tale where the little girl kept dropping bread crumbs so the path home would be revealed? Now that you understand the truth it's like having those bread crumbs and it will be clear what direction and actions to take when the road does become a little rocky. No more running to the LFS to buy 10 Kg tubs of Rowaphos...now you can change your moniker to chris1004_unplugged.  

By the way, what kind of leaf was that mate?

Cheers,


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## chris1004 (27 Jun 2009)

Clive, I won't be bying any more Rowaphos from Mr Smith thats for sure. 8) 

The best match from the pictures in the tropica catalouge leads me to believe that it is Echinodorus 'red flame'. Trouble is when I first got a load of my plants I just picked out what looked nice in my LFS and planted them where I thought appropriate from the label information supplied. Stupidly I then threw all the labels away so I'm not certain of the latin names for many of them. Still another lesson learned (keep the labels  ).

 I reckon I caught the leaf with a syphon hose as it wouldn't have been the first time that I had damaged one in this way and the damage did look consistant to past experiences with an erratically placed hose end.

I do know exactly what you mean about it still being early days but I feel certain that the worst is over, which is also born out by the way my tank is now looking (I really must try and sort a picture out for you). I would rather not go back to the flourish excel if I can help it as my vallis has taken a big hit but hopefully it will be resilient enough to bounce back and spread well within a month or two. Its a shame that I like the vallis so much as if it wasn't for that I could just run with the addition of excel all the time and it wouldn't bother me a bit. Still if I can get away without using it and manage to keep the vallis it would be the best option and the least cost one to boot.

Regards, Chris_unplugged 8).


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