# cacatuoides double red is this normal behaviour?



## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

Hi all,
I have recently purchased a breeding pair of cacatuoides double red Male/Female they are in there own tank with almond leaves coconut shell aqua soil and bubble filter aquatic plants. The first week I had them they spawned which was amazing I was told to remove the male to allow the female to look after the eggs and fry . The next couple of days the female had seemed to eat the eggs I don’t know if they where fertilised or just not the best as this is there very first time spawning and are still learning the ropes. So I decided to re add the male but I have noticed that the male keeps nipping at the female and hunting for her in the aquarium also has gone a dark black colouration but the fins and tail are bright red. I haven’t done anything different doing weekly water changes of 25% feeding daily to once every other day with brine shrimp/blood worm/dafnia/ flake food. The female is a bright yellow colour. I’m just curious on why the male is acting the way he is the temperature of the tank has not changed hitting around 27’c.

any help would be much appreciated


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## alto (7 Mar 2021)

It’s a good idea to include size of tank in your query as this is often relevant (especially with dwarf cichlids)
A photo is also helpful (of both the fish and the setup)


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

Would u know why they would be showing this behaviour as this hasn’t happened before plus they have shown previously signs of breeding as eggs where Laid under the almond leaves


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## Sammy Islam (7 Mar 2021)

alto said:


> It’s a good idea to include size of tank in your query as this is often relevant (especially with dwarf cichlids)
> A photo is also helpful (of both the fish and the setup)





Nathanh2150 said:


> Would u know why they would be showing this behaviour as this hasn’t happened before plus they have shown previously signs of breeding as eggs where Laid under the almond leaves



Is this in the 17L tank? 

Maybe he's still in breeding mode and she isn't? Maybe there's no where to really hide or break in sight lines? Maybe the male has become territorial as he's been moved back to a smaller tank?


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## alto (7 Mar 2021)

Just watched the video - tank definitely needs a lot more decor to break lines of sight, allow hiding spaces for both fish - I’d remove the male back to your EA 900 (I think)

You might try placing both fish back into the bigger tank - when you’re able to monitor them for several hours, and separate again if needed, though in the larger tank, with suitable decor they should be able to manage to get along - but if aggression continues, it may be that they won’t “pair” again; in this case separate for a couple weeks and try again (in the 900)

The darkness of the male is likely stress (rather than a positive breeding color)
eg, My cacatouide male has become very dark
Note the male in this thread is definitely ill


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

I upgraded there tank to a 50ltr with a bubble filter still has everything it currently had that was in the 17ltr


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## alto (7 Mar 2021)

Not A cacatuoides but 

*Color changing and behavioral context in the Amazonian Dwarf Cichlid Apistogramma hippolytae (Perciformes)
Raoni Rosa RodriguesI; Lucélia Nobre CarvalhoII, III; Jansen ZuanonIII; Kleber Del-ClaroI


			Color changing and behavioral context in the Amazonian Dwarf Cichlid Apistogramma hippolytae (Perciformes)
		

*
Full text available at the link, with excellent drawings and photos (and when color changes were observed)


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

If I was to re-add the male back into my large aquascaper 900 for another week and re added him back after that week am I gonna be expecting the same behaviour as I am now or do u all believe he may show more breeding behaviour. Plus gives the female time to relax and get ready for spawning again. Also I was thinking of adding them both into my aquascaper 900 but I didn’t want the other fish in the tank to show any signs of eating the fry that’s why I have got them a separate tank to spawn in then to grow the fry to add to my aquascaper 900


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## alto (7 Mar 2021)

Returning both fish to the 900 will allow them an opportunity to get reacquainted - once they begin to act interested in spawning again, you can try removing them to the 50l breeding tank 
BUT
I’d allow them to do some practise spawns in the 900 first, then move to the breeding tank (which needs more suitable decor, based upon that video)


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

As I said previously there hasn’t been much change in what decor they had and they started to breed before without any issues this has only happened since a couple of people suggested to remove the male to allow the female to take care of the eggs which failed as the egg turned into food for the female now I have re added the male it seems that I’m having this issue. Even if I was to re add the female/male into my aquascaper 900 and they start to spawn there the likely hood of the fry survival is very minimal as the other fish may attack them plus moving the breeding pair back and forth will only stress them even more surly ?


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

I understand that this is there first spawn so wasn’t hopeing for much but even one to survive is a bonus but nothing. They both are eating well no issues there’s no fin damage ect so just find it strange


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## MirandaB (7 Mar 2021)

It's not strange at all,if one or other isn't interested in breeding then you cannot force the issue.....either try more decor in the tank or move them back to the bigger tank because otherwise you are likely to end up with a dead fish.


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## John q (7 Mar 2021)

I think the phrase "you can lead a horse to water" springs to mind. 
All you can do is encourage them to the best of your ability and nature will or won't do the rest, its certainly not unusual for inexperienced mothers to eat the eggs. 

Edit: just seen mirandas comment.


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## Conort2 (7 Mar 2021)

Cichlids can take a while to get it right so it isn’t too much of a surprise the female ate her first spawn. I doubt she’s ready to lay again so soon which is probably why the male is being aggressive. Just keep them apart for a while, rushing to get them to try and spawn when the female isn’t ready will just result in injured/dead fish. Give them a couple of weeks apart so the female can recover and develop more eggs and then give them another go.

Cheers


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## Conort2 (7 Mar 2021)

Just looked at your video, you need much more decor in there. Chuck a load more leaves in there if you have any. There shouldn’t be any clear lines of sight, It’s far too open in there. The fish need to be able to hide away from each other if things get a bit nasty. To be honest I was expecting much worse ‘aggression’. I’d say that’s just cichlid flirting lol. 

However the female will be dead in no time if it does turn nasty as she doesn’t have anywhere to get away.

Cheers


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## mort (7 Mar 2021)

I agree with the other excellent advice above. It takes a fair bit of energy to spawn for a female and she needs time to rebuild her reserves. The males are used to a harem of females and his "input" isn't anywhere near as draining, so you are seeing him ready and desperate to mate again but her not at the point where she can. This conflict will result in aggression and possibly death unless they can stay away from each other. You could add a divider to the tank to keep them apart but the female would benefit from the male not being there. 
I'm curious as you describe them as a breeding pair which you purchased in your initial description, which may have been the case but they seem a very young pair from the experience with the last eggs.


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

Much appreciate the advice and help regarding my enquiry regarding my Video I have had a lot of message’s on here and other groups that I have posted on and as always there’s to many people saying different things which make it very confusing which in the first place I didn’t want to face but I have which is fab !! It’s like playing the lottery and having so many number but not one is gonna be called out !! I have chosen to follow my gut and to remove the male once again for a week I have added more almond leaves and also a dragon stone to the set up where the female is currently. I would love to put the male and female in my aquascaper 900 but there’s risks that my other fish may see an opportunity to eat the fry or even stress the male/female out my hole goal was to breed them both as a little project for myself as I have been keen on doing it for quiet awhile but with all the comments and niggles along the way it’s been challenging and frustrating as everyone has an opinion but not coming to the table with a full resolution.


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## sparkyweasel (7 Mar 2021)

It's good to see you got them a bigger tank. 
It's best to have _lots _of decor and hiding places, including some caves with an entrance big enough for the females to enter but too small for the male.
I would feed the female well to get her back into breeding condition, - with live foods if possible. And add lots more shelters, and _then _re-introduce the male, when you are available to observe afterwards. Either you get to enjoy watching their courtship, or you are there to separate them if necessary.
You might also consider some dither fish.


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## Nathanh2150 (7 Mar 2021)

She has had a treat today with blood worms dafnia and brine shrimp gonna be doing daily water changes of 10% and tbf she’s been eating really well no signs of not eating or staying in one place which is good also the male has now gone back to normal colour I think it may of been the substrate and wanting to breed I shall give them both some time apart before adding the male back in some point next week both are such a caricature always at the front of the tank when I’m near by so they know I’m the feeder haha 😂


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## alto (7 Mar 2021)

What are the dimensions on your new 50l tank?

Some example of breeding setups for Apistogramma 





						My Apistogramma Cacatuoides Orange tank
					

Size of the aquarium: 60×35×30 Apistogramma Cacatuoides Orange Silica sand, sycamore leaf, oak leaf, venusaqua filter, mangrove, nymphaea lotus... I'm using pure osmosis water. + equilibrium. Türkiye/Bursa




					apistogramma.com
				









						75 liter A. baenschi biotope
					

hey all!  i thought i show a few pics of my new 75 liter tank.  it's the new home for my baenschi pair and the remaining 3 copella callolepis.  specs:  aquael turbo 500 sponge filter aquael leddy smart 6w, 8000k led. 100w heater  i used beech banches and a few redmoore roots. there is also a lot...




					apistogramma.com
				







Nathanh2150 said:


> think it may of been the substrate


Why do you think this?

It’s not uncommon for dark wood, leafs to be used in Apistogramma setups, the “orange flash” shows typical colouring 

George Farmer has several videos on his Apistogramma cacatuoides blackwater tank (later some juveniles were moved to his EA1200 where they also bred once mature)


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## alto (8 Mar 2021)

If you do adjust the scape in your 50l, I’d encourage you to add a sandy area - many of the dwarf cichlids will spend some time sifting sand 

Lots of Apistogramma eye candy at TomC (and Martin) amazing website 


			Welcome to Toms Homepage


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