# Use of Activated Carbon, Purigen, etc.



## jaypeecee (21 Jun 2022)

Hi Folks,

I'm trying to get an idea of how many UKAPS members use products such as those above to prevent build-up of dissolved organics. Judging by the lack of threads that mention this, I get the impression that control of organic compounds is handled (almost) exclusively by tank maintenance and regular water changes. Would that be a fair assessment? If so, what has changed in our hobby to bring this about?

JPC


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## Garuf (21 Jun 2022)

I use both carbon and purigen. The reason is solely to strip any tannins from my wood heavy scape, anything else is either a positive or a negative dependent on phase of the moon. 

I have it in my understanding  neither effect ferts levels and the idea they do is tradition over fact.


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## KirstyF (21 Jun 2022)

I use purigen for water polishing just because I can, but have two filters and gyres so don’t really need to worry about reduction in flow.

I wonder whether some folks choose maximising flow over adding more ‘stuff’ to filters perhaps, though that is just a personal view. 

Also, from the planted tank perspective, if folks are doing regular water changes to re-set ferts and/or as good practice to reduce/minimise algae anyway, then perhaps they don’t feel so strongly that the ‘stuff’ is necessary. 

I suspect that for some planted folks, even the use of ‘standard’ filter media is becoming a much lower priority these days. ‘Scrunchies, sponges, whatever is cheap and to hand is good enough. The plants do the rest’ is certainly not such an uncommon approach on this forum at least!


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## erwin123 (22 Jun 2022)

I use purigen because its reusable and since it turns brown after a few months hopefully its absorbing something that the fine filter floss can't catch (i.e. i put it after the fine filter floss).

I'm running at 14x flow so I have some headroom to use fine filtration which may reduce the flow.

I had 4 bags of free carbon with my Fluval filters. After I used them up, I didn't bother to buy new ones and frankly could not tell the difference.


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## jaypeecee (22 Jun 2022)

Hi Folks,

Thanks for your replies.

I am going to ask this same question on other forums. Then I'll see if any conclusions can be drawn.

JPC


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## dw1305 (22 Jun 2022)

Hi all, 


Garuf said:


> I have it in my understanding neither effect ferts levels and the idea they do is tradition over fact.


You are right, it isn't going to have <"any effect on ions"> in solution. The only exception would be <"with chelated iron">, where "Purigen" will filter out <"FeEDDHA"> etc. 

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (22 Jun 2022)

ceg4048 said:


> I like Purigen - except for the price, of course.
> 
> I really dislike the term "polishing of water" because it's a meaningless phrase invented by someone who didn't really understand what these types of resins actually do. They use it, the water gets clearer but no one know why, so they invent a phrase based on some kind of metaphor, like polishing furniture.
> 
> ...


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## Aqua sobriquet (22 Jun 2022)

I use activated charcoal in one of my filters as the bogwood in the tank colours the water too much for my liking.


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## KirstyF (22 Jun 2022)

😂 Good old Clive!! 

He’s right of course! though in fairness, ‘I use purigen as it’s electrostatic affinity for organic nitrogen compounds floats my boat’,  is a bit of a mouthful! 😉😂


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## Midwife (22 Jun 2022)

I get the impression carbon is a waste of money as Its gets spent in a day or so. Especially the cheap stuff.  If I have Purigen knocking around I use it in new setups or floss otherwise more water changes. Myself bare bottom tanks  or a thin layer of  substrate are  growing on me rather than deep beds.


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## DogTailRed2 (22 Jun 2022)

One thing to consider with purigen is the bleach to reactivate it is very hard to get in the UK.


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## Stu1407 (22 Jun 2022)

DogTailRed2 said:


> One thing to consider with purigen is the bleach to reactivate it is very hard to get in the UK.


Milton? Milton is really easy to get being sold in most super markets and has no additives. I suspect Darrel will know.


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## dw1305 (22 Jun 2022)

Hi all, 


Stu1407 said:


> easy to get being sold in most super markets and has no additives.


I know what it contains:


> It contains 1% sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) and 16.5% sodium chloride (NaCl)


But I've never been a Purigen user and I don't know if that it is a high enough concentration of sodium hypochlorite. 

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (22 Jun 2022)

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the feedback.

So, other than removing tannins to prevent brown-tinted water, it seems that activated carbon, Purigen and similar products get the 'thumbs down'.

Thanks again.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (22 Jun 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> I am going to ask this same question on other forums.


Hi Folks,

As it turned out, I didn't need to ask the question. The answer was immediately obvious. Here's an example from one post:

"Use it, without a doubt, especially at startup. What if you don't do enough water changes? What if you have a high organic load? What if you have an insufficient bio-filter in terms of plants and bacteria? It's just another way to keep your tank cleaner of organics. You will have to change it when necessary to keep up it's effectiveness, but there are plenty of reasons to use it". In this instance, "it" refers to activated carbon.

This is also well worth reading:






						Aquarium
					






					golias.net
				




JPC


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## John q (22 Jun 2022)

DogTailRed2 said:


> One thing to consider with purigen is the bleach to reactivate it is very hard to get in the UK.


Most cheap thin supermarket bleaches contain 1% Sodium Hypochlorite, there's mixed opinions as to how good 1% strength bleach works. We have threads about it.





						UK Purigen Users Only
					

Where do you get your bleach and what make, manufacturer? Has anyone in the UK been able to get 8.25% Hyprchlorite Thin Househol Bleach? Thank you.



					www.ukaps.org
				




You can buy  Sodium Hypochlorite 4.5% strength thin bleach fairly cheaply, unfortunately the £4.99 shipping price bumps up the total cost a bit.




			https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/cleaning-and-hygiene/disinfectants-and-bleaches/thin-bleach-w1-5-ltr/p/ZT1094901S?utm_source=cj&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=affiliates&gclid=CjwKCAjw-8qVBhANEiwAfjXLri-pxlG1Q-AZJkSdko4sqke8tct44f6H-ZX1ukqRdqs_qrayGfGCJBoC2dEQAvD_BwE


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## PARAGUAY (22 Jun 2022)

I think both products are good, price aside , and purigen seems good value because of as said above but it's now known activated carbon is not a necessity as was thought years back. I use purigen now and again but wouldn't fret if run out. If you need to remove meds or have a soil disturbance it's handy to have carbon in the cabinet. But water changes are the way to go most of us think


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## sparkyweasel (23 Jun 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> What if you don't do enough water changes? What if you have a high organic load? What if you have an insufficient bio-filter in terms of plants and bacteria?


Great, a magic cure for a bad set-up and poor maintenance.


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## Wookii (23 Jun 2022)

I used to use Purigen, but like many products in the aquarium trade, it’s a bit of a ‘faith’ product. We have to take it on ‘faith’ that it is actually capturing organic compounds. 

Ultimately we don’t really know if it truly is capturing organics as we have no way to measure exactly how much it is capturing, relative to those generated by the tank.

When I started adding botanicals to my tank to actually increase the tannins and other beneficial organics acids (that some folks are actually using Purigen to try and remove), I stopped using it as it would have been counter productive.


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## jaypeecee (24 Jun 2022)

Wookii said:


> Ultimately we don’t really know if it truly is capturing organics as we have no way to measure exactly how much it is capturing, relative to those generated by the tank.


Hi @Wookii 

For a couple of years, I have been investigating any correlation between dissolved organics and oxidation-reduction potential (ORP) in my tanks. Based on these measurements, there certainly appears to be a strong correlation between these two water parameters. In a pristine tank, ORP typically measures +400mV to +450mV in the water column. I took a sample of this water a few weeks ago and sent it to a test laboratory where they measured a TOC* of 2.2mg/litre. I hope to get the water re-tested sometime soon.

I should add that ORP is used as an indicator of water purity in a variety of fields. I'll try to pull together some articles and scientific papers on this fascinating topic if anyone is interested.

* TOC =  Total Organic Carbon

JPC


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## _Maq_ (24 Jun 2022)

A better way to regenerate Purigen is 1 per cent hydrogen peroxide. It's tested, cleaner than any chlorine-containing compounds.
Activated carbon eliminates dissolved organic compounds. AC made of coconut coir is not good for removing humic substances and tannins, i.e. water coloration. AC made of coal will do. Unfortunately, most cheap Chinese AC are made of coconut coir.
Dissolved organic compounds are the source of many troubles, yet are largely ignored. People tend to seek the source of their difficulties in something else, like lighting, nutrient imbalance, etc. Because of that, AC remains a valued tool of advanced aquarists only.


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## Aqua sobriquet (24 Jun 2022)

Midwife said:


> I get the impression carbon is a waste of money as Its gets spent in a day or so.


Who gave you this impression?


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## jaypeecee (24 Jun 2022)

Hi Everyone,


jaypeecee said:


> I'll try to pull together some articles and scientific papers on this fascinating topic if anyone is interested.



Hi Folks,

I hope some people find the following to be worth reading:



			https://www.enr.gov.nt.ca/sites/enr/files/oxidation-reduction_potential.pdf
		


JPC


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## Yugang (25 Jun 2022)

The benefit of weekly cleaning and WC is consistency, consistency, consistency. 60% weekly water change, weekly cleaning of pre filter, regular deep vacuuming the part of my tank where I do most replanting.  My working hypotheses is that the micro organisms and plants enjoy stability and  consistency, and  do more to help than I can imagine.

A risk with adding active absorbers is that we do not now how much they do, when they stop doing it, and what it means for the balance of the tank when they stop doing whatever they are supposed to do.

Unless I have a clear need and problem to address, which has never been the case in my tank, I believe that less is more.


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## zozo (25 Jun 2022)

There are many types of activated carbon around it seems. There roams a video on Youtube from some reef guys that take different types of activated carbon to the test. The regular one available in the shops actually is the cheaper bituminous (coal) or Coco shell carbon which is denser in structure and less effective for water treatment and is industrially mainly used for air filtering.

The Lignite base carbon was tested as most effective in colour absorption and longer-lasting for water treatment.
(Brown Coal)

Regarding the article below the wood base activated carbon seems best for colour absorption. I don't remember this being tested in the mentioned video.


			StackPath
		







						Lignite Base Carbon - Urbans Aqua
					

Urbans Aqua supplies but does not stock Calgon HPC Super HD. Lignite GAC pores are large making it useful for removal of tannic based color.




					www.urbansaqua.com


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## _Maq_ (25 Jun 2022)

Yugang said:


> ... regular deep vacuuming the part of my tank where I do most replanting.  My working hypotheses is that the micro organisms and plants enjoy stability and  consistency, and  do more to help than I can imagine.


You call this "stability and consistency"? I prefer not to touch the substrate as long as possible (i.e. except occasional re-planting), precisely because I want to provide my microbes and plants with stability and consistency.


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## Aqua sobriquet (25 Jun 2022)

I recently paid extra for a new face mask as the filters included with it are not only for filtering out fine dust (the primary reason for buying the mask) but also deal with “nuisance odours”, I wonder what type of carbon is in them! 

Edit: I should have said that the carbon I’ve been using in my 60L Nano is Superfish and then All Pond Solutions. Both are pelleted but the APS stuff if over twice the size. Both types seem to work well at removing the colour from the water caused by the  bogwood.


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## _Maq_ (25 Jun 2022)

It's interesting that hi-tech aquarists usually hate brown coloration, and dose chelated micronutrients at the same time. Humic substances are very good natural chelators, very important in natural waters.
For me, humic substances are of little concern because they degrade slowly, and mostly abiotically. It's the simpler dissolved organic compounds which feed bacteria and algae, and which I'm trying to eliminate by using AC.


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## Yugang (25 Jun 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> You call this "stability and consistency"? I prefer not to touch the substrate as long as possible (i.e. except occasional re-planting), precisely because I want to provide my microbes and plants with stability and consistency.


Fair enough. The key is consistency in maintenance of the tank, and avoiding excessive build up of organics.

When I have a major replanting, I may vacuum the soil in about 5-10% of my tank followed by a 70-80% water change. This means indeed that I don't touch the substrate too much, but do have a routine to keep organics under control, also in the soil.


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## _Maq_ (25 Jun 2022)

Yugang said:


> ... have a routine to keep organics under control, also in the soil.


I believe _particulate_ organic matter in the soil is more beneficial than harmful. To a degree, of course. It's a substrate for the microbial community which runs the tank. It adsorbs ammonia, phosphates and transition metals, and keeps them cycling (opposed to precipitated).
Keep organics under control ... yes, I agree wholeheartedly. But the implementation seems different in details.


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## Yugang (25 Jun 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> I believe _particulate_ organic matter in the soil is more beneficial than harmful. To a degree, of course. It's a substrate for the microbial community which runs the tank. It adsorbs ammonia, phosphates and transition metals, and keeps them cycling (opposed to precipitated).
> Keep organics under control ... yes, I agree wholeheartedly. But the implementation seems different in details.


I am just a modest high tech tank keeper. I studied a lot, know most of the theories, but am still not sure what is a myth and what is science. I do my best with my tank, but nothing like the real experts.

You may have a lot of value for the hobby, so may I suggest you share your experience in a journal? We could learn a lot from you, and I will be your first student if you convince me with your tanks.


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## _Maq_ (25 Jun 2022)

I'm not sure whether I am the one to lecture. Yet one feature of my approach is rather special, perhaps: I don't limit myself to information shared within aquarist community, I prefer reading scientific books and papers, and then trying to apply in practice what I've learned from them. Perhaps that's why my opinions and approaches sometimes seem rather unorthodox.


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## dw1305 (25 Jun 2022)

Hi all, 


_Maq_ said:


> I believe _particulate_ organic matter in the soil is more beneficial than harmful. To a degree, of course. It's a substrate for the microbial community which runs the tank. It adsorbs ammonia, phosphates and transition metals, and keeps them cycling (opposed to precipitated).


I think you are <"talking to the converted"> for <"many of us"> on this forum. We've talked a lot about what might <"happen in the substrate">, and <"particularly the rhizosphere">.


> too _low oxygen_. Believe or not, oxygen deficit kills far more plants than anything else. (Just my opinion, I'm in a minority and I can live with that.)


I'm also a <"dissolved oxygen"> fan.


_Maq_ said:


> Perhaps that's why my opinions and approaches sometimes seem rather unorthodox.


I'd like to think we are a "broad church", where <"unpopular opinions"> can be aired. A number of members (<"including myself">) have been <"kicked off forums"> for disagreeing with the <"orthodox view">, although we have often had <"science on our side">.

cheers Darrel


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## ScapingScotsman (26 Jun 2022)

DogTailRed2 said:


> One thing to consider with purigen is the bleach to reactivate it is very hard to get in the UK.


Tesco, asda etc have their own el cheapo thin bleach for 69p. But as bleach is sodium hypochlorite , buy that and make up a 8 percent solution with water. But its very dangerous if not used correctly. Mustard gas if mixed with anything else.


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## Wookii (27 Jun 2022)

ScapingScotsman said:


> Tesco, asda etc have their own el cheapo thin bleach for 69p. But as bleach is sodium hypochlorite , buy that and make up a 8 percent solution with water. But its very dangerous if not used correctly. Mustard gas if mixed with anything else.



You can't make an 8% solution with it, that's the problem with it - it comes as a 1% hypochlorite solution - so even using it neat isn't as stong as the 4-5% hypochlorite solution that Seachem recommends for recharging the purigen (based on US household products which are 8.25% in a 1:1 mix).


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## ScapingScotsman (27 Jun 2022)

Wookii said:


> You can't make an 8% solution with it, that's the problem with it - it comes as a 1% hypochlorite solution - so even using it neat isn't as stong as the 4-5% hypochlorite solution that Seachem recommends for recharging the purigen (based on US household products which are 8.25% in a 1:1 mix).


Hi wookie, You certainly can.
I have 15% solutions here at work, but we buy it full strength and dilute down


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## ScapingScotsman (27 Jun 2022)

Here is ours
[URL


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## Wookii (27 Jun 2022)

ScapingScotsman said:


> You certainly can.


Not from the Tesco, Asda el cheapo bleach you mentioned above?


ScapingScotsman said:


> I have 15% solutions here at work.


Yes, I buy a 12% solution from APC Pure, but as I say you can't achieve that percentage with the supermarket thin bleach.

EDIT: Sorry - I think we're at crossed purposes - I thought you were suggesting making an 8% solution from the supermarket stuff, but you mean buying stronger stuff and diluting didn't you?


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## ScapingScotsman (27 Jun 2022)

Wookii said:


> Not from the Tesco, Asda el cheapo bleach you mentioned above?
> 
> Yes, I buy a 12% solution from APC Pure, but as I say you can't achieve that percentage with the supermarket thin bleach.
> 
> EDIT: Sorry - I think we're at crossed purposes - I thought you were suggesting making an 8% solution from the supermarket stuff, but you mean buying stronger stuff and diluting didn't you?


Ahh yes crossed wires buddy. No definitely not making an 8 percent from the supermarket thin bleach. 
I rarely bother bleaching the stuff as I we source a certain resin for Industrial use and its cheaper to just replace than to try burning off organics etc


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## Wookii (27 Jun 2022)

ScapingScotsman said:


> Ahh yes crossed wires buddy. No definitely not making an 8 percent from the supermarket thin bleach.
> I rarely bother bleaching the stuff as I we source a certain resin for Industrial use and its cheaper to just replace than to try burning off organics etc



Might be worth you putting it in little 100ml fine mesh bags and offering it for sale if it's cheaper than the £10 Seachem offering!


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## ScapingScotsman (27 Jun 2022)

Wookii said:


> Might be worth you putting it in little 100ml fine mesh bags and offering it for sale if it's cheaper than the £10 Seachem offering!


Have a wee look on my journal buddy. I brought a rather large bag home from work with me.


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## Hanuman (27 Jun 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> A better way to regenerate Purigen is 1 per cent hydrogen peroxide. It's tested, cleaner than any chlorine-containing compounds.


Never tried H2O2 to regenerate Purigen although I can see it working to some extent. However my concern with Hydrogen Peroxyde would be that it would possibly mechanically damage the beads and render them ineffective much faster than when using the proposed hypochlorite bleach.

I have some old Purigen that I don't use anymore since I don't have wood loaded tanks. I should try see how H2O2 regenerates the Purigen although it's impossible to know for sure how well it will be regenerated since no one other than Seachem knows exactly how purigen works (other than what they publicly state).


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Jun 2022)

Are there any comparative articles on the net about these various types of Aquarium products. What they’re made of and how they work etc. I ask as I’ve read some  hobbyists were switching products due to the cost?


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## dw1305 (27 Jun 2022)

Hi all, 


Hanuman said:


> it will be regenerated since no one other than Seachem knows exactly how purigen works (other than what they publicly state).


I'd guess that any strong oxidising agent would remove the colour from used "Purigen". 

Although Seachem don't state how it works, their answer in @Craig Matthews <"Pink tint"> thread would strongly suggest that it is a purely physical process, based on molecule size.






cheers Darrel


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## Hanuman (27 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'd guess that any strong oxidising agent would remove the colour from used "Purigen".
> 
> ...


And there is this from their Knowledge Base section. I mean they don't have any vested interest in any regenerating product so why would they explicitly reject Hydrogen Peroxide as an alternative?


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## Wookii (27 Jun 2022)

Hanuman said:


> And there is this from their Knowledge Base section. I mean they don't have any vested interest in ant regenerating product so why would they explicitly reject Hydrogen Peroxide as an alternative?
> View attachment 190406



They do have a vested interest in selling you more Prime to remove the bleach though


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## Hanuman (27 Jun 2022)

Wookii said:


> They do have a vested interest in selling you more Prime to remove the bleach though


Indeed, and if Hydrogen Peroxide "destroyed" the purigen faster (which I might think it would) then they should promote it 😉


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## _Maq_ (27 Jun 2022)

Well, when I attempted using H2O2 I went into unexplored territory. My thought went in the way that '_why should I use potentially dangerous chlorine-containing oxidizer instead of residue-free hydrogen peroxide?_' As for Seachem, they're businessmen, and not particularly honest, in my eyes. So, if they argue against H2O2, I hardly care.
Anyway, I'm using diluted H2O2 for several years already, regenerated my sacks of Purigen many times, and they still apparently work as new. I didn't perform any scientific analysis, though.
One more thing: It often takes several days until Purigen gets white again. Maybe bleach works faster, I don't know.


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## dw1305 (27 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> Anyway, I'm using diluted H2O2 for several years already, regenerated my sacks of Purigen many times, and they still apparently work as new.





Hanuman said:


> I mean they don't have any vested interest in any regenerating product so why would they explicitly reject Hydrogen Peroxide as an alternative?


I don't think they do explicitly reject using H2O2, I actually think we might be back with Seachem and their <"very careful use of wording">.


> _We *can only be certain* that hypochlorite bleach will be both effective at *regenerating  the Purigen and removable by Prime*._


The emphatic "*No*" is what you see, but it is qualified by  "........ _we can only be *certain"*_, and that is their get-out clause.

cheers Darrel


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## Hanuman (27 Jun 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Well, when I attempted using H2O2 I went into unexplored territory. My thought went in the way that '_why should I use potentially dangerous chlorine-containing oxidizer instead of residue-free hydrogen peroxide?_' As for Seachem, they're businessmen, and not particularly honest, in my eyes. So, if they argue against H2O2, I hardly care.
> Anyway, I'm using diluted H2O2 for several years already, regenerated my sacks of Purigen many times, and they still apparently work as new. I didn't perform any scientific analysis, though.
> One more thing: It often takes several days until Purigen gets white again. Maybe bleach works faster, I don't know.


And you never see any broken beads or some dust after using H2O2?


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## _Maq_ (27 Jun 2022)

Hanuman said:


> And you never see any broken beads or some dust after using H2O2?


No. The bag remains full, and I've never noticed any pollution in the liquid in which I soak Purigen. If I had, I'd attribute it to the oxidized pollutants rather than to Purigen damage. Anyway, the water remains clear.


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Jun 2022)

Is this a similar product as Purigen?


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## _Maq_ (27 Jun 2022)

No. It's for deionizing the water.


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## dw1305 (27 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> No. It's for deionizing the water.





Aqua sobriquet said:


> Is this a similar product as Purigen?


<"Mixed bed resin">. Lenntech offer a good <"summary document">.

cheers Darrel


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> <"Mixed bed resin">. Lenntech offer a good <"summary document">.
> ...


I still have that resin that was sold to me as Purigen.  Strange it looks the way it does  as I’ve never used it, it’s been sealed in the bag.


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Jun 2022)

ScapingScotsman said:


> Have a wee look on my journal buddy. I brought a rather large bag home from work with me.


Is it this?





						Purolite Product: PuroSorb™ PAD950
					

Purosorb™ PAD950 is a Polyacrylic Macroporous Adsorbent Resin in the non-ionic form ideal for adsorption of organics and juice debittering applications. The polymer structure is acrylic with a Non ionic functional group. This product is Kosher certified.




					www.purolite.com


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## zozo (27 Jun 2022)

I have my doubt that Seachem produces the product called Purigen themselves... They most likely have a contract with the producer to sell under a so-called different brand/trade name.

Here is one of the leading companies trading in Filter resins and there are quite a few. 








						Pure Aqua Filter Media and Resin
					

Pure Aqua is the leading producer of custom filtration systems. Our water treatment plants operate with quality components and a complete documentation package.




					pureaqua.com
				



If you go by the colour Tan it could be this or that..?

Whatever it is, it obviously has its raw ingredients that could be this or that too for example a mineral bound with a resin and then heated to get a porous end product.
You could compare it with Alfagrog - Frit - Sintered glass or Porous glass all 4 about the same that is a powdered mineral (among other silica) backed at high temperature (below its melting point) called the Sol-Gel process which results in a porous glass pebble which is a perfect plant and filter media. Now when is a substance Gel and when is it Resin? Both could be the very same thing and in a sense, Alfagrog could be named a resin product too it's a matter of commercial interpretation. So what's in the name, pottery has different product names but al all comes down to a certain type of clay that becomes some different product, such as after a backing process White clay becomes Porcelain/China. And what is clay? To powder ground mineral mixed with water...

The same happens with Osmocote® fertilizer, which is the registered product name... But there are many other brands selling Osmocote® under their own name without the need of mentioning it's actually Osmocote. I have no idea what these legal contracts/licenses or business deals are called. But it happens all over the place.


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Jun 2022)

zozo said:


> I have my doubt that Seachem produces the product called Purigen themselves... They most likely have a contract with the producer to sell under a so-called different brand/trade name.


My bet would be on a company like this. Sadly they’re not likely to sell to the public.





						Adsorption | Purolite | www.purolite.com
					

PuroSorb and Macronet adsorbents are designed to provide high capacity with target selectivity, to enhance purification and separations. Significant productivity gains are achieved by matching the right adsorbent with the system to be purified. Visit our website to learn more!




					www.purolite.com


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## ScapingScotsman (28 Jun 2022)

I'm happy to put in a big order with our raw material supplier  if people are wanting to save alot of money. At less than 13 pound for 5 litres...... No profit just donations. They manufacture this themselves. 
It is not produced by a certain brand, they researched and found a product, tried it and gave it a fancy description. How they can say it can remove LARGE organic particles I don't know,especially given the bead size. It's not acrylic though.
The reason it gives a final polished look is it takes in the very minute organic particles that pass through floss carbon etc.
There are lots of other fairly similar looking products on the raw supply sites but the majority work slightly different and need salt solutions to restore it.


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## ScapingScotsman (28 Jun 2022)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> Is it this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No that's a different product 


Aqua sobriquet said:


> Is it this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No its not the polysorb or any of their stuff, but if you were to look at any of their products, the 'closest' to purigen abd it's properties would be the macronet resin mn200 mn202


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## ScapingScotsman (28 Jun 2022)

DogTailRed2 said:


> One thing to consider with purigen is the bleach to reactivate it is very hard to get in the UK.


Ethanol, much quicker and safer too. No worries of trying to dechlorinate then either.


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## dw1305 (28 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


zozo said:


> I have my doubt that Seachem produces the product called Purigen themselves... They most likely have a contract with the producer to sell under a so-called different brand/trade name.


This is what <"Aquarium Science"> says, I'm not a chemist so I can't vouch for the veracity of it:


> _...... As a chemist well versed in polymer chemistry, based on the fact that the material swells in water and based on the decomposition products listed in the MSDS (no nitrogen compounds and no sulfur compounds), Purigen is simply a hydrophilic carboxylated acrylate polymer structure which gives a “macro-porous” surface for beneficial bacteria to colonize. ...........
> 
> There are no special properties which such a plastic would have. It categorically is not an “organic scavenging resin”. The hydrophilic carboxylated acrylate chemistry is used in making baby diapers. This would appear to simply be one of the plastic resin bead feed stocks for making baby diapers......._


I don't know if that would contradict? Its ability to <"filter out tannic substances and dyes">.

cheers Darrel


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## Aqua sobriquet (28 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is what <"Aquarium Science"> says, I'm not a chemist so I can't vouch for the veracity of it:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Darrel. It seems Purigen is no better than carbon for removing tannins that colour the water?
I gave up on the idea of using it not only because of the cost but also pouring bleach down the drain after recharging it. 
It seemed to me rather daft to use it in a fish tank then pouring products down the drain that can harm wild fish.

If an alternative product is available at a reasonable cost that doesn’t require bleach then I’d be interested.
As a matter of interest I buy 12% H2O2 anyway if that can be used?


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## Yugang (28 Jun 2022)

Out of curiosity, when we can do a big weekly water change what is the point of activated carbon? I am not being critical, just don‘t get it.


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## dw1305 (28 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


Aqua sobriquet said:


> It seems Purigen is no better than carbon for removing tannins that colour the water?


It might depend on the grade of activated carbon you use.


Yugang said:


> when we can do a big weekly water change what is the point of activated carbon? I am not being critical, just don‘t get it


I actually <"go out of my way"> to make sure the water always <"has some tint">. 

I think if you keep  <"Lake Tanganyika surge zone Cichlids"> then you might want clear water, but for everything else I'm pretty sure that some humic substances <"are an unalloyed good thing">.

cheers Darrel


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## _Maq_ (28 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> This is what <"Aquarium Science"> says, I'm not a chemist so I can't vouch for the veracity of it:


I wonder who stands behind 'Aquarium Science'. I know something about home experiments. They are rather costly, and above all, time consuming. I wonder who could possibly perform so many tests as an amateur? True, the author does not insist to be an amateur. If he/she is a pro, then crucial question arises: who pays for that?
It routinely attacks all commercial products. In that, I may agree in many instances, but again - doing tests which *prove* anything is difficult, expensive, and usually takes much more time than one can imagine. In short, I'm pretty suspicious about this 'Aquarium Science'.


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## _Maq_ (28 Jun 2022)

Yugang said:


> Out of curiosity, when we can do a big weekly water change what is the point of activated carbon? I am not being critical, just don‘t get it.


Dissolved organics tend to get adsorbed on phase interfaces, i.e. on surfaces. These adsorbed organics create so called conditioning film. This film is a precondition to attaching bacteria, and these bacteria then create biofilm, together with other microbes. Biofilms are in turn a precondition for attached algae to "root" (in fact, algae have no roots).
If you change water, you remove dissolved organics which are _at that very moment_ in the water column. If you use activated carbon, you reduce dissolved organics _continuously_ (because many of them adsorb on activated carbon with its huge surface area and adsorption capacity).


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## Aqua sobriquet (28 Jun 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> I wonder who stands behind 'Aquarium Science'. I know something about home experiments. They are rather costly, and above all, time consuming. I wonder who could possibly perform so many tests as an amateur? True, the author does not insist to be an amateur. If he/she is a pro, then crucial question arises: who pays for that?
> It routinely attacks all commercial products. In that, I may agree in many instances, but again - doing tests which *prove* anything is difficult, expensive, and usually takes much more time than one can imagine. In short, I'm pretty suspicious about this 'Aquarium Science'.


It’s good to be sceptical. Some answers to your questions.





						The Author of the Aquarium Science Website
					

The author of aquariumscience.org is not affiliated in any way with any profit driven company. As a result the advice given here-in is free from marketing hype.




					aquariumscience.org


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## Wookii (28 Jun 2022)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> It’s good to be sceptical. Some answers to your questions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've always found that site a little lacking on the 'Science' element of 'Aquarium Science', and a little too strong on the 'Unsubstantiated opinion' element.


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## dw1305 (28 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> I wonder who stands behind 'Aquarium Science'. I know something about home experiments. They are rather costly, and above all, time consuming. I wonder who could possibly perform so many tests as an amateur? True, the author does not insist to be an amateur. If he/she is a pro, then crucial question arises: who pays for that?


It is  mixture of <"the good, the bad and the ugly">. He isn't great on planted tanks, but the sections on <"biological filtration"> are pretty good.

I don't know anything about his background, or motivation, but I'm reasonably convinced that it is <"genuine and _bona fide_">_.  _


_Maq_ said:


> It routinely attacks all commercial products


<"Not all of them"> and some sections <"are just fantastic">. I really like the <"comic potential">* of a <"properly angry person">.


> ......Another ceramic product which is the same as all the others is Biohome. This ceramic media is heavily marketed by a YouTube guru called the “Pondguru” from the United Kingdom.  If I want a laugh I watch this snake oil salesman’s videos..........





Wookii said:


> a little too strong on the 'Unsubstantiated opinion' element.


That is partially why I think it is _bona fide, _if he wanted to peddle an agenda he would need to tone down his approach. He can be a bit "shouty".

* I did apologise to @Miss-Pepper

cheers Darrel


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## Yugang (29 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It might depend on the grade of activated carbon you use.
> 
> ...


I am trying to understand this, I obviously miss the point of using this.

I can imagine for industrial scale processes, activiated carbon is the solution. They can't simply replenish 50% of their huge weekly volume with a couple of buckets tap water.

But for a planted tank, when you can easily change 50-80% water per week, where plants and fish will love you for that? Why not just do the obvious, and bring in clear and clean tap / RO water?


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## dw1305 (29 Jun 2022)

Hi all,


Yugang said:


> But for a planted tank, when you can easily change 50-80% water per week, where plants and fish will love you for that? Why not just do the obvious, and bring in clear and clean tap / RO water?


<"Totally agreed">.


dw1305 said:


> I'm a fairly fanatical water changer (small percentage change every day),


I'm a <"rainwater user">, but I wouldn't have any issue with <"using our tap water">. I have some <"environmental concerns"> with RO water.

The only "_problem_" with the advice to "_change some water_" is that nobody <"makes any money out of it">, and unfortunately our hobby seems to <"suffer disproportionally"> from <"Snake Oil"> salesman.

If I have an agenda, it is <"this one">.


dw1305 said:


> .........With any aquarium product I look at it like buying a fitted kitchen, the salesman tries to sell you all these up-grades etc. but when you look at it objectively you have just paid a £400 for a couple of bits of particle board and some cheap fittings. I know enough about photosynthesis and plant nutrition to know that there are no "_special phosphors_" in fluorescent tubes and that every NO3- ion is the same as every other NO3- ion in solution, and if any-one tries to tell me different they are wrong.
> 
> *I may have a jaundiced view, but look on the companies that sell these products as a bit like payday lenders, people go to them in their hour of need, and then they keep on using the service. There is no money to be made in KISS solutions and telling people that growing plants and time are all you need, add in a soil substrate and rain-water and you have a virtually free recipe for having a successful tank. However if you can keep peoples tanks continually teetering on the brink of disaster you can carry on selling them "pH buffers" etc...........*



cheers Darrel


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## _Maq_ (29 Jun 2022)

Yugang said:


> But for a planted tank, when you can easily change 50-80% water per week, where plants and fish will love you for that? Why not just do the obvious, and bring in clear and clean tap / RO water?


You can see it also the other way round. If you purchase activated carbon in hobbyists shops, you pay for tremendously over-priced and often low-quality (or unknown quality) product. I've bought a 25 kg sack of industrial AC of suitable (and known) quality for less than 100 pounds. I'm using AC in a ratio of 1 g AC per 1 liter water, and it seems to get exhausted in about 3 to 4 weeks (my tanks are usually low in dissolved organics). So, that 25 kg bag will be enough for many many years.
Do you get tap water or even RO water _for free_? You don't have to move a finger when doing water change? Is it truly that effortless and environmentally friendly?
That said, I too make water changes, generally 20 per cent a week. But, like I said before, water change and AC *do not* have entirely the same effect. Use of Activated Carbon, Purigen, etc.


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## Garuf (29 Jun 2022)

Hmmm. My water is faintly urine coloured with no purigen/carbon within a couple of days and straw like by the end of the week without purigen/carbon even now the tank is some months old. Water changes don’t really fix that but I totally understand the point.


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