# Epsom salts



## Martin steele (21 Jan 2020)

Hi my fish tank is looking quite well at the moment.
However some of my crypts are showing signs of deficiency the leaves have turned a dullish grey colour with green lines where the veins are.I am thinking this might be magnesium deficiency so I am thinking of dosing the tank with Epsom salt. Can anyone tell me what the correct dose is for my 50 gallon aqurium the water locally is quite soft although the gh is running quite high due to not flushing out the aquasoil property it was tetras.I think the high gh is down to calcium left in the mix. Another issue is micro nutes I have a box of these and was wondering how much to use if att all.

Any advice would be most helpful.

Regards Martin steele


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## Tim Harrison (21 Jan 2020)

Can you post some pics of your plants and a FTS.


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## ian_m (21 Jan 2020)

You haven't stated if your tank is high tech ie CO2, high lights, high filtration rate or just low tech, as this will make a difference in dosing levels.

Have you a magnesium source ? You are not one of these people relying on your water report are you ? Relying on these reports is always the start of plant deficiencies.

If worried just dose magnesium sulphate (epsom salts) as it is cheap, no problem if you over dose and if your plants do have magnesium deficiency should quickly recover as magnesium is mobile in plants.

Here is a start to get magnesium dosing levels,
https://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html


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## dw1305 (21 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Tim Harrison said:


> Can you post some pics of your plants





Martin steele said:


> However some of my crypts are showing signs of deficiency the leaves have turned a dullish grey colour with green lines where the veins are


A picture <"would be really useful">, but whether the that are effected are the old leaves, or the new ones, is going to help a lot. 

Have a look at @tam's  <"slightly sad floating....">.

cheers Darrel


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## Sammy Islam (21 Jan 2020)

You can work out how much mgso4 to add by using a calculator like: 
http://rotalabutterfly.com/

Depends if you are dosing EI or not but generally around 5ppm is good, i would think thats about 1.5-2 tsp in a 50gallon best/easiest to add when filling up the tank during a water change.


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## DeepMetropolis (21 Jan 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> You can work out how much mgso4 to add by using a calculator like:
> http://rotalabutterfly.com/
> 
> Depends if you are dosing EI or not but generally around 5ppm is good, i would think thats about 1.5-2 tsp in a 50gallon best/easiest to add when filling up the tank during a water change.


Jups this is the way I do it.. I dose around 1tsp per 100liter (tank volume). Should be 5ppm as I do it on tank volume the ppm is probably a bit higher..


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## Witcher (21 Jan 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> Depends if you are dosing EI or not but generally around 5ppm is good, i would think thats about 1.5-2 tsp in a 50gallon best/easiest to add when filling up the tank during a water change.


I'd personally say that it depends on the desired water hardness, for someone who keeps plants in very soft water (1-2 deg) 5ppm of Mg means that there is almost no Calcium in the water (or concentration of Ca is too low, usually it needs to be 4x more Ca than Mg).


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## Sammy Islam (21 Jan 2020)

Witcher said:


> I'd personally say that it depends on the desired water hardness, for someone who keeps plants in very soft water (1-2 deg) 5ppm of Mg means that there is almost no Calcium in the water (or concentration of Ca is too low, usually it needs to be 4x more Ca than Mg).


That's something definitely to consider but the OP has said they think they have high calcium but fairly soft water, but we don't know if that from using RO, or tap or a mix.


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## Martin steele (21 Jan 2020)

Hi attached are 3 pics of my plants.Before I go I just need to clear up some terms used by your good selfs.

1 what is meant by EL.
2 what is meant by FTS.

My tank is powered by 62 watts of led lights.

Filter power is quite high about 500 lit/H.
I have co2 but am not using it as I can't remember to turn it off at night.

Hoping this helps and please send any advice on micro nutes.

Regards Martin steele


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## Martin steele (21 Jan 2020)

Just a quick update i have checked on the original web site where I bought my lights.If any stats are to be believed regarding LEDs they are 36 watts not 25.
So that takes it to 36x2+12
Total 84 watts although they seem very bright for just  84 watts.


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## dw1305 (22 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Martin steele said:


> Hi attached are 3 pics of my plants.


It looks like an <"iron (Fe) issue">.

Because the yellowing (chlorosis) is in the young leaves, it is caused by a non plant mobile element,  There aren't many of these, but there is one that causes loss of chlorophyll is iron. Have a look at @Zeus.'s <"comments and photo">.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (22 Jan 2020)

Hi Darryl how much iron do I add to correct this deficiency.I have some solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer.It says dissolve 300 grms of this stuff in 100 litres of water.
It says the stock solution will contain
1 Boron 32 ppm
2 Copper 7 ppm
3 Iron 252 ppm
4Manganese 52ppm
5 Molybdenum 4.5 ppm
6 Zinc35 ppm.

It's realitvely easy to scale down the content of the stock solution but how much do I need to add to my aqurium.
Sorry Darryl im not technically minded like some folks on here so I just need some simple measurements.

The other option is some liquid iron I got from the Eastern block I can't read anything on the packet it's all in Russian what I can see though is Fe-65 N-20 and pH-4.7.

Best regards and thanks to all of you again.

Regards Martin steele


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## Oldguy (22 Jan 2020)

Martin steele said:


> 3 Iron 252 ppm



Try for about 0.2ppm, or less, of Fe in your water column for starters. Your stock solution is 252ppm in 100ml so 1ml will delver 2.52ppm if added to 1litre of tank water or 0.252ppm if added to 10litres of tank water. You need to guestimate the net volume of your tank in litres, divided by 10 and that will give you the number of mls of stock solution to add for 0.252ppm of Fe in your tank.

Some have found that adding iron may initially cause algae growth as these can quickly take advantage of iron so try for about half dose to start with and see how it goes. The other trace nutrients will be in corresponding ratio. It will be a simple mater to add more as your plant growth picks up and algae problems are avoided. Some on the forum run at about 0.4ppm Fe but it depends on your set up and how your plants grow. Always look at your fast growers as they will be the first to show signs of deficiencies. 

Magnesium is another nutrient which might need to be added as it is not always in tap water. Calcium and magnesium will tend to displace iron and other transition metals from their chelator and people with very hard water have to select their chelator with care. I use EDTA but cut my tap water with rain water to juggle hardness. The amount of trace elements you add does not always correspond to the amounts that are available after a few days. So frequent low dosing once plant growth is good might be a way forward.

As for the Russian mix try a photo of the label on the forum, we have Russian and Russian readers/speakers who could translate for you. 

All the best.


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## dw1305 (22 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Oldguy said:


> Try for about 0.2ppm, or less, of Fe in your water column for starters. Your stock solution is 252ppm in 100ml so 1ml will delver 2.52ppm if added to 1litre of tank water or 0.252ppm if added to 10litres of tank water. You need to guestimate the net volume of your tank in litres, divided by 10 and that will give you the number of mls of stock solution to add for 0.252ppm of Fe in your tank.


That will do. 





Martin steele said:


> The other option is some liquid iron I got from the Eastern block I can't read anything on the packet it's all in Russian what I can see though is Fe-65 N-20 and pH-4.7.





Oldguy said:


> As for the Russian mix try a photo of the label on the forum, we have Russian and Russian readers/speakers who could translate for you.


I think you need a translation before you use it, does it have a % Fe value anywhere? 

If you don't want to add all the micro-nutrients, or risk the Russian translation, I might be tempted to buy the <"Chempak sequestered iron"> from <"this thread">.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (22 Jan 2020)

Hi and thank you once again,I have a q does 0.2 ppm = 200 ppm or 2 ppm sorry I get lost in the math.


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## dw1305 (22 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Martin steele said:


> It says dissolve 300 grms "solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer" in 100 litres of water.
> It says the stock solution will contain
> 1 Boron 32 ppm
> 2 Copper 7 ppm
> 3 Iron 252 ppm





Martin steele said:


> ,I have a q does 0.2 ppm = 200 ppm or 2 ppm sorry I get lost in the math.


It is really easy to get lost in the powers of ten.  I'll start by ignoring the stock solution and dilutions and just go with adding the dry powder to the tank.

If you add *3 grams to 100 litres* of tank water, you've divided *300 by 100*, so then you need to divide the *252 by 100 as well,* and you've added *2.52 ppm Fe*.

If you add 0.3g (*3/10*) of "solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer" to 100 litres you have 0.25 (*2.5/10*) ppm Fe.

Both @Oldguy and I don't like working with very small weights of fertiliser, so rather than trying to accurately weight out 0.3g we'd weigh out a larger weight and then dilute that solution.

Working with powers of ten is always easiest. So if you dissolved 3g of "solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer" in water, and make that up to a litre (1000 mL), you could  add 100 mL of that solution (to your 100 litres aquarium) to get 0.25ppm Fe.

Because your 3g in 1000 mL solution is dilute, you can also assume that 1 mL of solution weighs 1 gram, and you use weight, rather than volume, to  get the litre (1 kg) and 100 mL (100 g) volumes.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (22 Jan 2020)

Hi Darryl if you thought I was confused before I am now.
Old guy said if I start with a stock solution of 252 ppm and add lml in a litre I will end up with a solution of 2.52 ppm. Surely 1 ml into a thousand = 0.00252.

Regards Martin steele


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## Martin steele (22 Jan 2020)

Hi again I said 0.000252 sorry I should have said 0.252 ppm.still it's out from old guys recconing.


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## dw1305 (23 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Martin steele said:


> Hi Darryl if you thought I was confused before I am now.


 I give the students an Excel spreadsheet for these, because they often get confused as well. If you PM your email I can send it to you. 

The important bit is: 





dw1305 said:


> If you add 0.3g (*3/10*) of "solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer" to 100 litres you have 0.25 (*2.5/10*) ppm Fe.


It doesn't matter how that 0.3 g of micro nutrient fertilizer ends up in the 100 litre tank, as long as it does (and stays in solution as Fe++(+) ions) you've supplied 0.25ppm Fe. 





Oldguy said:


> Your stock solution is 252ppm in 100ml so 1ml will delver 2.52ppm if added to 1litre of tank water or 0.252ppm if added to 10litres of tank water.





Martin steele said:


> sorry I should have said 0.252 ppm.still it's out from old guys recconing.


You just need to work back to find the amount of dry powder you have, in the volume of solution you've added. 

You started with 30g in 1 litre, @Oldguy's 100 mL contains 3g of  "solufeed sodium free TEC multi micro nutrient fertilizer" (1000/10 & 30/10), and you still have 252 ppm of Fe. 

If you add 1mL of your 252ppm Fe solution to 1000mL of water, so you have divided by 1000 and 252/1000 = 0.252 ppm Fe.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (23 Jan 2020)

So let me think if I add 3 grms of slufeed to 1 litre I will have a solution that contains 252 ppm in 1 litre.

If I then add that litre to 100 litres of tank water I will have 252 divided by 100= 2.52 . But I have circa 200 litres of water in my tank give or take a bit for substrate Dec's ECT.

So I will need 6 grammes of solufeed in order to build up the iron to 2.52 ppm x 200.

Let me know Darryl if I am correct in my thinking.

Next q is how often do I add the nutes to my tank.

Regards martinsteele1959@gmail.com
PS I have included my e mail.

Trra for now.


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## dw1305 (23 Jan 2020)

Hi all,
Spreadsheet sent.





Martin steele said:


> So I will need 6 grammes of solufeed in order to build up the iron to 2.52 ppm x 200 Litre.


Yes.

@Oldguy suggested 0.25 ppm, so it would be 0.6 g of solufeed in 200l for that level of iron.

If you know the % of iron in the solufeed you can use the <"Rotala Butterfly Dosing Calculator"> which avoids the maths. Have a look at <"Calculating with DTPA Fe 8%">.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (23 Jan 2020)

Hi Darryl,
I think it's finally sinking in in the past I could have worked this out in just a moment,unfortunately I suffered a stroke about 9 years ago and it's left my thought processes rather worse off.

So 0.25 ppm meanse
After  the 0 tenths hundreds and thousands am I right in thinking that 0.25 is two tenths and 5 hundreds of 1 ppm.

In Wich case the trace elements hardly seem worth adding but I know it's just a trace but it seems such a very tiny amount.


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## dw1305 (23 Jan 2020)

Hi all,





Martin steele said:


> ......am I right in thinking that 0.25 is two tenths and 5 hundreds of 1 ppm.


 Yes, that's it. 





Martin steele said:


> In which case the trace elements hardly seem worth adding but I know it's just a trace but it seems such a very tiny amount.


That is the thing with the micro-elements, plants just need a tiny bit of them, but they need all of the <"essential elements">  to grow.  

A lot of the plant nutrients are essential for plant growth, but then <"become toxic at slightly higher levels">, you can think of elements like zinc (Zn), copper (Cu) and iron (Fe).

If you wanted to add 0.5 ppm iron it wouldn't do any harm. 

cheers Darrel


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