# Why are ADA Products so expensive?



## Krishs Bettas (21 Feb 2010)

Does anyone know why, I look at the USA ADA website everything looks cheaper.


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## Tom (21 Feb 2010)

Why is Versace so expensive? It's a name, more than anything I think. And everything looks gorgeous!!


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## Nick16 (21 Feb 2010)

yep you pay for the name. 

i think you can get just as good results even if you pay 1/2 or even 1/3 of the price. just because a world famous scaper owns the company, doesnt mean the products will work for you.


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## Tom (21 Feb 2010)

They worked brilliantly for me! lol. I can't get my head round Tropica, but ADA has worked every time for me


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## daniel19831123 (21 Feb 2010)

I think the question besides being ADA are expensive, it's also asking why ADA product in America are cheaper?


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## Tom (21 Feb 2010)

Lots of things are cheaper over there  I got a bargain pair of converse in New York


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## samc (21 Feb 2010)

they are more expensive over here because of the shipping and tax. its lovely looking stuff though


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## Shadow (21 Feb 2010)

you will be surprise how cheap it is in Hong Kong


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## Steve Smith (21 Feb 2010)

Import taxes for one.  Also, America is such a huge market compared to the UK, they buy bigger quantities. Economies of scale   I'm just glad we can at least get ADA, should we choose to buy it.


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## a1Matt (21 Feb 2010)

Shadow said:
			
		

> you will be surprise how cheap it is in Hong Kong



Does anyone know if ADA stuff is also cheaper in Thailand?


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## Nelson (21 Feb 2010)

because this is RIPOFF britain    .


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## Nick16 (21 Feb 2010)

im only 17 and i plan to get out of this country fairly fast. 
im looking at singapore, canada or NZ to go and live.


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

It's tax and shipping costs essentially, I noticed the price didn't go down at all when the VAT was dropped which_ really_ irked me. 
Basically it's what's termed a luxury product and because it's from the far east it is already coming in at a premium as such we get charged with premium pricing. A lot of it is name snobbery, there's really no denying a lot of the product is good and this is from a cynical ADA user (a rare thing), there's also no denying that a lot of the stuff they peddle, is pseudo science and completely unneeded in any capacity.

The main thing is that ADA have lost ground, Aquasoil was their biggest spinner but now there's columbo and Olive knott's both of which have the same properties but without the issues such as yellow water and leaching. The price issue is still there because they're small companies and still hit with non essential items tax levels. 
Their lighting is pretty but there's very little to differentiate between say, aquamedics Â£150 halide and one of their Â£600 halides, some PAR diagrams I've seen on reef forums, using the same bulb, actually suggest the distribution from the AM reflectors is better. The bulbs are very good however but aren't to everyones taste.

Their ferts are well packaged and good, but now that Tom barr has a detailed analasys on them you can make your own for a fraction of the cost and diy dose using the same guidelines, It's essentially a very low dosing ppmd I'm lead to believe. 

The final thing ADA are known for is their glass wear. I've got an ada beetle and I can honestly say that my rhinnox 1000 pair are supperior in producing a fine mist for a long period. Yes, I've had bad ones but at Â£4-6 who cares. Even the ADA ones don't give "whole disk diffusion", that's something that is near to impossible because of the nature of ceramics and pressure, it's near impossible to produce something where exactly the same pressure is needed everywhere on it's surface to permiate it, gas just like water or people will take the easiest route where ever possible and that's normally over a small portion of the disk. 
The lily pipes are a contentious issue, people who've used them will never go back, same with people who've used Cal Aqua, both are roughly the same price these days (when I first bought my cal aqua nano pipes direct from cal aqua they cost me $25-Â£17 including postage, god knows what the mark up must be now they're nearly Â£50!) it's a person preference thing. Do aquas are supposedly good but all glass wear is essentially a copy of the original ADA stuff, and as such all could be improved to increase through flow and reduce friction and reduced flow rate. The PM ones are very good, ANS's are better (much stronger/thicker glass) but if you want ADA you'll always say ADA are better. The inflows are what let down all but CAL Aquas pipes (it does but much less) the slits are too few, too small and poorly distributed. Do Aqua seem to have addressed this giving loads of inlets, widely spaced but from what I can tell only on their nano range of pipes. 

Even then recent experimentation and annecdotal evidence has shown that standard outlets/inlets might actually be superior in producing good flow throught the whole tank without pressuring the filter reducing flow. A spray bar is almost always going to be the best for achieving even flow but they're unsightly so there's the trade off which means we choose lilys, the market is ready for some experiment to produce some glassware, even plastic glass wear that's clear, that is capable of producing even flow, doesn't reduce flow and is most important, doesn't really detract from the scape.

I've been following threads meant for reefs and Loc line is the item of choice because of it's modular aproach and that you can aim the water exactly where it's needed. Something liek that but much less intrusive would be a god send. 

In summary, yes ada is expensive and you're paying a lot of the time for the name, but some of their products are worth it, (just as a fair few aren't) you're also paying shipping and tax much higher than normally associated with an item. Yes you can get the same thing cheaper, emulate their products through DIY and get superior products but just like apple you buy an experience, or an ideology and it's pretty, conveinent and easy to follow has an air of superiority and because it's a product thats image is seen as being luxury it prices itself as such because people will pay it if the aesthetics and results match the hype and are convenient for the person to follow. Just like building a pc that is more powerful than a mac and is cheaper it's going to be ugly and have linux or windows both of which aren't particularly nice to look at. A mac will cost more, and be less powerful but it's a mac and it's prettier to look at and prettier to use and has the air of superiority and as such people flock to mac.


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## Nick16 (21 Feb 2010)

im sure i have seen glass spraybars kicking around somewhere... .they would be good. 
i wont buy a pair of lillies until they sort the inlets out.


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

Aqua essentials have them but they only come in one size. 13mm circa 55cm long.

I doubt lily pipes will ever change, too small a market to warrent the tooling for plastic and lack of feedback to the companies we get our glass of that their is room for improvement. 

It's leg work really, if you put in some work you can get things cheaper, I tried cutting more slits in but with my hamfistedness it didn't really go smoothly. It could be easily done by someone/somewhere familiar with producing scientific quality glass wear though.


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## JamesM (21 Feb 2010)

People are also forgetting ADA have the huge ongoing cost of the Nature Aquarium Gallery. Compare this with BorneoWild and its easy to understand why the new BorneoWild optiwhite/starfire tanks are cheaper AND better quality. Same with the BorneoWild tools (which sadly are stupidly overpriced in this country down to retailers not through fault of BorneoWild).

ADA stuff is exceptional, but people need to realise there are alternative products out there, and in many cases these alternatives are better.

No one makes a scape like Amano though


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

JamesM said:
			
		

> ADA stuff is exceptional, but people need to realise there are alternative products out there, and in many cases these alternatives are better.
> 
> No one makes a scape like Amano though


Truer words were never said. 
I've never seen the borneo wild stuff but every time I've heard it mentioned even diehard ADA fans are startled and this has to be a good measure of quality x cost.


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## zig (21 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> The main thing is that ADA have lost ground, Aquasoil was their biggest spinner but now there's columbo and Olive knott's both of which have the same properties but without the issues such as yellow water and leaching.



Pardon my ignorance but what's columbo, any links?


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## Nelson (21 Feb 2010)

zig said:
			
		

> Garuf said:
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http://www.plantedbox.com/shop/index.ph ... bad9c22647


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## zig (21 Feb 2010)

Amano's latest book Â£35 in Japan but Â£60 in the UK


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## zig (21 Feb 2010)

nelson said:
			
		

> zig said:
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oh I see, Florabase. Thanks nelson.


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## JamesM (21 Feb 2010)

The books thing I find really hard to justify, considering most aren't even translated


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

Yeah, a Â£25 increase I really can't see any justification for. Especially when I'd emailed an ebay seller and they said postage from Hong Kong on the new ADA book they could do for Â£7!


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## Mark Evans (21 Feb 2010)

for me, ADA's glassware is the best. I have a drop checker and a thermometer, and their simply the best.


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## George Farmer (21 Feb 2010)

Drive to work in a Ferrari or a Ford.  They both get you there, but one gets you there in style and is a lot more expensive.  I think the Apple vs. PC is a good comparison too, especially regarding design and packaging.

My best set-up so far in terms of plant growth and health, and no algae issues was using the ADA complete substrate and liquid fert system.  I've done a few planted tanks now so the anecdotal evidence is fairly strong on that.  

Whether or not that justifies the relatively high price tag is a matter only the individual consumer can decide.  We all have different goals, tastes and budgets.


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

The thing is with out quantative testing it's all just that, anecdotal. The whole picture will never be clear simply because there can be many many factors at play. Changing just one thing, say adding driftwood will change the flow patterns which in turn will change how much co2 is reaching the plants which will change the health. Even how much water evaporates will affect things. 
ADA's good but it's not the be all and end all when there's many many factors at play. 

There are factors at play with every set up that will never be apparent. 
George, do you know rough PPM's for the ADA ferts? I know that when my last set up started I dosed very lean and found that growth was fast but "peaked out" after about a month at this point I noticed co2 use went through the roof as did fert use, no more light was added the only difference I could think was a change of intake, from standard PM 13mm to Cal aquas nano intake.


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## NeilW (21 Feb 2010)

Perversely because ADA stuff is pretty and expensive it feels like im 'treating' myself which is nice.  Saying that I picked up my tasty lily pipes at half price from AE, and as for Macs being expensive I got my Macbook Pro on my uni discount for Â£373


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

I get a mac for free with being dyslexic, I just never got round to sorting it out the forms are massively overwhelming.


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## NeilW (21 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I get a mac for free with being dyslexic, I just never got round to sorting it out the forms are massively overwhelming.


Someone on my course gets that too,  surely an evening plowing through forms is better then a grand?!


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## Garuf (21 Feb 2010)

Almost certainly, this is asking a lot from someone who spelt their name wrong, on their A level english exam. Twice.


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## Mark Evans (22 Feb 2010)

pick the bones out of this.image courtesy of natureaquarium PL


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## Steve Smith (22 Feb 2010)

I wonder if the glass is to protect the products from drool (and other bodily fluids?!)


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## billy boy (22 Feb 2010)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I wonder if the glass is to protect the products from drool (and other bodily fluids?!)


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## LondonDragon (22 Feb 2010)

Its all about style, ADA products are expensive because well they are the best kit you can get so they can charge whatever they want. Until someone comes out with products of the same standard for cheaper then its always going to be that way.

My budget does not permit me buying ADA stuff, also I am always looking for bargains which doesn't help haha but if money was no option then I would go for an all ADA cabinet, tank, light, CO2, filter, the works. And then even without water I would look at it and drool LOL

Just the way it goes 

But the argument was a little lost here, which was basically why are ADA kit cheaper in the states than in the UK, mostly due to conversion of currency and taxes, and usually what you get for lets say $200 in the states costs Â£200 in the UK, which is a lot more!!


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## zig (22 Feb 2010)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I wonder if the glass is to protect the products from drool (and other bodily fluids?!)



Might be there to stop skinheads from shoplifting


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## a1Matt (22 Feb 2010)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I wonder if the glass is to protect the products from drool (and other bodily fluids?!)



and the 'funniest post on UKAPS' award for 2010 goes to SteveUK.


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## plantbrain (23 Feb 2010)

Shadow said:
			
		

> you will be surprise how cheap it is in Hong Kong



Yes, we complain and have the same issue here about India and China, but then want the high paying jobs and not pay much for anything here.  :idea: 

Taxes are lower, but there's many things we do not have also. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (23 Feb 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> which was basically why are ADA kit cheaper in the states than in the UK, mostly due to conversion of currency and taxes, and usually what you get for lets say $200 in the states costs Â£200 in the UK, which is a lot more!!



Yes, that's a good conversion I found. In Oz, the AU dollar was nearly the same to ours when I went, but they where still paid more, so the US dollars where not worth much then.

When the US borrows a lot, the value drops, so imports are cheaper etc. Many tourist show up etc. when the value is high and we are in the black, then the value goes up, and imports start costing a lot. Since china likes to sell us stuff, they like it and offer loans to devalue the dollar, they have done some funny stuff with the yuan however. This means the trade will go their way, we get cheap stuff and lots of it. But we are in serious debt.

Ah economic modeling............

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## sanj (1 Mar 2010)

Hmm I guess you could plan your holiday in China or India and come back with some cheaper goods. A bit like those people who go for affordable surgery abroad and role into a holiday aswell.


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## LondonDragon (1 Mar 2010)

sanj said:
			
		

> Hmm I guess you could plan your holiday in China or India and come back with some cheaper goods. A bit like those people who go for affordable surgery abroad and role into a holiday aswell.


Its easier to hide the "surgery" when passing through customs than the goods


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## pompeyfan (2 Mar 2010)

> Does anyone know if ADA stuff is also cheaper in Thailand?
> a1Matt



690 Thai Baht for 500ml Brighty Bottles, that's just under Â£12 a bottle with 10% Discount.
550 THB for ECA was a good saving too...


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## flygja (5 Mar 2010)

I once read something about McDonalds. A professor asked his students, "How many of you think, you can make a better burger than McDonalds" and a lotta people lifted up their hands. Then the professor asks "How many of you can sell a burger better than McDonalds?" and no one lifted up their hands.

ADA's stuff is expensive primarily due to the brand and marketing I feel. He basically developed a whole culture around this hobby. There's also the research and development that is put into the making of all his products, for e.g. the right concentrations of nutrients in a solution. There's no denying the fact that they work.

But if you are perfectly happy with the results of making your own ferts then by all means go ahead. Make your own burger and enjoy it  8)


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## Mowze (9 Mar 2010)

pompeyfan said:
			
		

> > Does anyone know if ADA stuff is also cheaper in Thailand?
> > a1Matt
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				a1Matt said:
			
		

> Shadow said:
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 Any idea on the glassware? Im off there in a few months so I might try pick up a few bits and bobs before I come back.

 Come to mention it, anyone recomend any good LFS in Thailand?!


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## nybraby (8 Apr 2010)

So I'm currently living in the US and moving back to the UK in June and will be bringing my ADA tank etc with me, unfortunately without the fish / plants etc as its too much hassle with customs. 

Would add that in comparisson ADA are also high end here and you dont see tons around but it does look amazing, I'm just glad i can get replacement gear in the UK. I actually want to move up in tank size and was going to buy it here before coming home, think I'll just buy a non ADA tank when im back home.


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## Etherelda (10 Apr 2010)

I'm currently in HK, found a shop on the goldfish market street, that sells ADA.

Drop checker is Â£20/$200 HKD, bottles of brighty etc are Â£8. Think I might be stocking up, I have another 3 days of shopping, after visiting my dad in hosp, and as he is being flown back business class with me, I have a huge baggage allowance. Dunno about transporting lilly pipes though, even in my hand luggage, I'm so clumsy.

The ada seller claims to be only ADA outlet in HK. Dunno.

Last night, for Â£30, I bought
hydor heater
2 glass/ceramic diffusers
1 bag noodles
nice scissors
tube connectors
4dkh solution
filter pipe cleaning kit. Mostly all western brands.


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## akbar19942k10 (17 Dec 2014)

Hey all,

If anyone is looking to purchase ADA products I highly recommend having a look around eBay and Gumtree before spending big bucks with official retailers, however be aware of fake products and and import fees. There's some amazing deals on the American EBay website and you'd probably kick yourself thinking why you haven't looked there before after looking at the prices.






Back in July I managed to come across a fella on Gumtree who happened to be selling the following additives:
Green Brighty step 2 500ml
Green Brighty step 3 500ml
2×Brighty K 500ml
Brighty special lights 500ml

Managed to take them off him all for £85, considering the green machine(TGM) were charging nearly £30 per bottle each at the time. So I asked him why he was selling them for so cheap and he explained that back in Hong Kong they're going for much cheap and that the competition between retailers is crazy not to mention there's no VAT in Hong Kong anyway and he managed to stuff a few bottles in his baggage. Lol





So since I purchased all the bottles above I may as well have picked up a 500ml bottle of Step 1. So I did and like I mentioned above i got it off the American eBay site for $27 which turned out to be £17  

Everything all legit of course...allergic to the counterfeit  

And it gets better... There's been some recent updates on ADA prices...





So I just got sucked back in to the hobby again and thought I'd have a quick browse around TGM website since I've been looking for updates on the release of the new 2014 Book of ADA for while. And the first thing I noticed on their homepage is a drop in price of the ADA liquid ferts and Aqua soil and it wasn't just the ferts and soil it was all ADA products! So I decided to head down to the Aquatic Design Centre to pick up the book and had noticed the sign above. So i asked Greg why they've dropped in price and he told me that the importing tax fees for ADA has dropped quite a bit allowing it to be sold quite a bit cheaper. 

Hope this helps


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## Piece-of-fish (17 Dec 2014)

Dude, sorry to ruin your world. You have just paid 85£ for some water!


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## akbar19942k10 (17 Dec 2014)

Piece-of-fish said:


> Dude, sorry to ruin your world. You have just paid 85£ for some water!



Don't worry you haven't. 
I understand why you feel 85 pounds is quite expensive for bottles of liquid fertiliser than cheaper E.I dosing methods which is what your probably using and there's nothing wrong with that. But it's this liquid fertiliser that quite a lot if not most of the aquascapers around the globe are using in their tanks to compete in the IAPLC. I have nothing against E.I dosing maybe i will use it some day myself, but if it's this fertiliser that you call "water" that is going towards producing world class scapes I want to use it too.


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## Jose (18 Dec 2014)

Im sorry to say piece of fish is right, its mostly water. People buy it because the hobby has been mistifyed through the years. The true success behind those great aquascapes is mainly the soil which is very rich in nutrients.
they dont have nothing special in them its just water and a few chemical salts.

but hey its your money and the main thing is for you to be happy with the product.

its interesting how the best aquascapes are from asia and it seems like the technical part of the hobby there seems to be a bit unknown. They just apply adas techniques, hard work and originality and thats it really, no need to know the science of it all.


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## akbar19942k10 (18 Dec 2014)

Jose said:


> Im sorry to say piece of fish is right, its mostly water. People buy it because the hobby has been mistifyed through the years. The true success behind those great aquascapes is mainly the soil which is very rich in nutrients.
> they dont have nothing special in them its just water and a few chemical salts.
> 
> but hey its your money and the main thing is for you to be happy with the product.
> ...



I do agree with both of you to some extent but it's E.I at the end of the day, its estimated so you can end up with an overpowering or weak mixture and I prefer consistency. With ADA dosages they give you more time between maintenances. But on the other hand ADA had to start somewhere to get their fertilisers right, so estimations and trial and error does play a role there.
I'll definitely look into this further.


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## Piece-of-fish (18 Dec 2014)

Has Amano himself registered on UKAPS undercover?


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## darren636 (18 Dec 2014)

Piece-of-fish said:


> Has Amano himself registered on UKAPS undercover?


No
He would tell one of his lower ukes' to do it


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## Michael W (18 Dec 2014)

I want to cry at the thought of spending so much on ferts and substrates. These products won't necessarily help you to make world class scapes just because they are branded. 

Look at Tom Barr's 120 Gallon, his scape and plant health amazes me and he uses EI, CO2 etc His aquarium gives me a very nice modern feeling with all the colours and tones. http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dutch-something-or-the-other-120-gal.17797/

Turn to BigTom's 'Poco Pozo' http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/toms-poco-pozo.33301/page-11#post-379902 and his retired 'Bucket O' Mud' http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/toms-bucket-o-mud-the-end.14521/ You can see his great success using a very cost effective and minimal approach with his methods in creating what I believe are one of the best tanks on the forum and I am sure many will agree.

I am not trying to bash ADA's products, don't get me wrong. The point I am trying to make is that you don't need to reply on specific products in order to achieve success. You can use cheaper and cost effective products and still be able to make a scape that is appreciated by many people. All you need to do is understand what plants will suit your needs and how to grow them successfully in your environment as seen in Tom Barr and BigTom's aquariums who used two different methods but still achieving many scapers and members' praise on the forum. It is all down to their knowledge and not any specific branded products and what have you.


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## Edvet (18 Dec 2014)

I do believe Big Tom uses either "magic" dust or "magic" water though..............


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## foxfish (18 Dec 2014)

I bought some ADA ferts years ago, I just loved using them, made me feel good


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## BigTom (18 Dec 2014)

Edvet said:


> I do believe Big Tom uses either "magic" dust or "magic" water though..............



Being called Tom helps also.


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## parotet (18 Dec 2014)

Molecules are molecules, ADA branded or not, mixed with more or less water, sold my Amano or whoever... Sorry but thinking that a product will make your tank look better is most of the times a big mistake. My guess is that a 90% of a tank depends on the owner planning and management. We all actually use the same equipment with non significant differences regarding quality and the results are really different.
I use basically the same equipment Tom Barr, Amano and IAPLC winners but my tanks are really crappy  I'm going to change my name. Definitely Tom, yeah I think it's the secret 

Jordi


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## Jose (18 Dec 2014)

Lol. Quite a fun thread this is. ActuallyI dont think there are any secrets any more at least to get a gorgeous tank. its like painting, you got to have an eye for detail and spend time with your tank but no tricks nope. Another thing is that ammano uses excess nutrients from the soil as well, not only Tom Barr. If you think of it plants can only have an excess or a lack of nutrients. The line for perfect nutrients is very fine and I dont think none of us are at it at any given time.
The aintenance is all about light levels. Tom Barr goes a month without changing the water in some of his tanks. I believe Amano changes 30% once a week which still a chore.


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