# New to active substrates



## Twisted Melon (4 Feb 2018)

Hi all,

I had a planted tank about 20 years ago. Very low tech with just gravel. It worked out ok. 

I’ve decided to get back into the hobby and have purchased a 280 litre tank. I intend it to be a planted tank, with CO2 and active substrate. 

I’ve been learning loads recently about water parameters to refresh my own knowledge, and CO2 injection. But I know nothing about substrates!

What’s considered the best product? And what’s the best practice in using an active substrate? What are the common pitfalls I need to try to avoid?

Do I need a layer of something else on top of the substrate?

I hear they break down eventually and need replacing? Is that true? And are there any that don’t? I don’t want to be tearing my setup down every few years. 

What’s this about gas problems if the substrate is too deep?

Sorry to ask so many questions. 

Thanks for any help you can give!!


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## zozo (4 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> common pitfalls



Spending a lot of money for something that you actualy do not absolutely need.  I've seen most beatifull contest worthy planted tanks with sand substrate only. Only using CO², water column fertilization and root tabs for the plants that benefit from it.

Active substrate, sounds nice, tho i have no idea what it actualy means.. It probably means rich in this or rich in that, changing such and so. But in the end all substrates if matured enough are equaly active. In low tech tanks using organic fertilized (active) substrates can be a more beneficial practice, all goes a lot slower and more gradualy requiring a minimum af water column fertilization.

In a CO² invironment, you kinda step into a race car, plantgrowth excellerates exponentionally depleting the substrates contents in a rather high pase and makes additional fertilization a pre regardless it's age. For how long you can make a high tech tank run without running into issues also is a trail and error. Maybe indefinitely with the correct maintenance.

So it's rather a personal and individual experience, one has very good results on ADA power sand, sais Haleluja that's it and is hooked for the rest of his carrier. The other does the same on plain sand with equal long term results and swears by that. There are things to say about every substrate out there but in the end it more likely is a much of a muchness..


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## foxfish (4 Feb 2018)

Hi Melon, welcome to the forum.
Like Marcel, I don't exactly know what you mean by an active substrate but I can guess you mean something like Amazonia?
Great if you can justify the cost but certainly not essential.
What most of us do if we are injecting C02 is use a water column fertiliser, usually termed as EI ferts (estimated index).
This is a fail safe method that guarantees  we have enough ferts for the plants.
EI is a great way to go because you will really need to concentrate your efforts on feeding the plants enough C02 & don't want to be concerned about fertilising them.


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## Twisted Melon (4 Feb 2018)

Hi,

Thanks both for your replies. 

Yes I was referring to something like Amazonia. 

So a lot of people are just using sand then? That certainly sounds a good bit cheaper. 

Is it just standard aquarium sand or are there types more suited to growing plants?

What brands of water column ferts would you recommend?

Thanks again.


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## a1Matt (5 Feb 2018)

Also, check out the sticky thread about Akadama.
It's a nice way to get an active substrate without spending silly money.

I've had it in my tank for about 5+ years and it hasn't broken down at all.

I'm also a fan of plain sand and gravel, I go for whatever is cheap and aesthetically pleasing.


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## foxfish (5 Feb 2018)

Lots of cheaper alternatives like bonsai soils ( Akadama & black volcanic grains) some of the softer Akadamas will turn to slosh, others as Matt points out last much longer.
Hard cat litter is a favourite & is fantastic if you can coupe with the colour but good old aquarium gravel & sand can also be used successfully too.
Having said all of that Amazonia is top notch stuff & possibly looks the most natural od all.


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## ceg4048 (5 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> What’s considered the best product? And what’s the best practice in using an active substrate? What are the common pitfalls I need to try to avoid?



Hello,
          As mentioned above, it would be a really good idea for us to resist the temptation to use marketing phrases such as "Active Substrate".
This is a very misleading phrase because it implies that a product does something particularly amazing.
Amazonia is an excellent product, however, is very expensive. There is nothing "Active" about this substrate as explained in this simple explanation: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/flora-max-v-eco-complete.13801/#post-143731

As with many other items in the hobby, hobbyists tend to make things more complicated than they need to.
Clay is generally the standard material for aquatic substrates, but is hardly a requirement. Plants grow in dirt. It's a very simple fact that folks tend to overlook.
Best practice is to seed your substrate and filter media with detritus from another tank or with dirt from your house plants or garden when the tanks is first set up and much later, when the substrate has an excess of organic waste, it's best tto vacuum the substrate to remove the excess. This is true of any substrate.

Best product is whatever you can afford and importantly, what you prefer to look at. Also consider that in a planted tank, your hand will repeatedly be in the substrate as you trim, remove, add or rearrange the plants, so what the substrate feels like when you stick your hand into it is also very important. Amazonia is velvety smooth on the hands while other substrates, made of volcanic rock or hard baked clay are often sharp and unpleasant to work with.

With substrate that are nutrient rich, it's a good idea to soak the lot in a bucket of water for about three weeks before you use it. This mineralizes the substrate. The ammonia in the substrate is converted to Nitrate making it much safer to use.



Twisted Melon said:


> I hear they break down eventually and need replacing? Is that true? And are there any that don’t? I don’t want to be tearing my setup down every few years.


Soft clay substrates, because they are clay, can turn to clay mush after a few years in the tank. Hard clay and volcanic types are more stable.


Twisted Melon said:


> What’s this about gas problems if the substrate is too deep?


There are no gas problems with deep substrate. This is a long standing myth and can only occur when the organic waste level in the substrate becomes truly excessive. Depth is not an issue. Plants produce Oxygen and send the Oxygen to the roots where it escapes into the sediment. You can therefore aquascape your tank to whatever substrate depth you desire.


Twisted Melon said:


> What brands of water column ferts would you recommend?


Do yourself a favor and avoid all brands. Study the Tutorial https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-using-dry-salts.1211/ and purchase the dry powders from our Sponsors. A very cheap and uncomplicated solution.

Cheers,


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## Twisted Melon (6 Feb 2018)

a1Matt said:


> Also, check out the sticky thread about Akadama.
> It's a nice way to get an active substrate without spending silly money.
> 
> I've had it in my tank for about 5+ years and it hasn't broken down at all.
> ...



Would you have sand on the bottom with gravel in the top or the other way round?


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## Twisted Melon (6 Feb 2018)

foxfish said:


> Lots of cheaper alternatives like bonsai soils ( Akadama & black volcanic grains) some of the softer Akadamas will turn to slosh, others as Matt points out last much longer.
> Hard cat litter is a favourite & is fantastic if you can coupe with the colour but good old aquarium gravel & sand can also be used successfully too.
> Having said all of that Amazonia is top notch stuff & possibly looks the most natural od all.



I’ve got plenty of cat litter in the cupboard! 

Perhaps I could use that as the bottom layer the cover it with something a bit mrecokeasing to the eye. Or if I create slopes in the substarate.


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## a1Matt (6 Feb 2018)

Oh sorry, my post was badly worded... I meant sand or gravel.

Quite a few people do scatter a bit of gravel on top of sand, which does look nice, but keeping it tidy is too much maintenance for me.

The only time i would mix substrates is having soil underneath sand (walstad style).


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## Twisted Melon (6 Feb 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> As mentioned above, it would be a really good idea for us to resist the temptation to use marketing phrases such as "Active Substrate".
> This is a very misleading phrase because it implies that a product does something particularly amazing.
> Amazonia is an excellent product, however, is very expensive. There is nothing "Active" about this substrate as explained in this simple explanation: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/flora-max-v-eco-complete.13801/#post-143731
> ...



Great information ceg! Really useful. 

Something else that you brought to my attention there regarding cleaning your substrate. I presume that the courser texture substrate it easier to clean? As the finer stuff presumably gets sucked up the syphon?

Also, what do you do if you grow a carpet? How do you keep the substrate clean??

Thanks again!


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## Twisted Melon (6 Feb 2018)

a1Matt said:


> Oh sorry, my post was badly worded... I meant sand or gravel.
> 
> Quite a few people do scatter a bit of gravel on top of sand, which does look nice, but keeping it tidy is too much maintenance for me.
> 
> The only time i would mix substrates is having soil underneath sand (walstad style).



That Walstad style seems crazy to me. Send to go against everything I’ve ever read!

What substrate do you have out of interest Matt?


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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Twisted Melon said:


> I’ve got plenty of cat litter in the cupboard!


It needs to be a <"moler clay based one">, like "Sanicat Pink" or "Tesco Low Dust Cat Litter". The moler clay is a natural diatomaceous earth deposit. 





Twisted Melon said:


> Something else that you brought to my attention there regarding cleaning your substrate. I presume that the courser texture substrate it easier to clean? As the finer stuff presumably gets sucked up the syphon?


We don't normally tend to syphon the substrate, it isn't as important in planted tanks. I mainly use sand because any debris sits on top of it. 





Twisted Melon said:


> Would you have sand on the bottom with gravel in the top or the other way round?


The gravel will <"end up on top over time"> unless you separate the layers with a semi-permeable membrane. 

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> I’ve got plenty of cat litter in the cupboard!
> 
> Perhaps I could use that as the bottom layer the cover it with something a bit mrecokeasing to the eye. Or if I create slopes in the substarate.


It needs to be the hard baked clay type of cat litter. Tesco sells it for a few £ a bag or there is one called Aristocats   or something like that come in really big bags for around £20.
Cat litter was extremely popular a few years back & has featured on this forum hundreds of times!


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## a1Matt (6 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> That Walstad style seems crazy to me. Send to go against everything I’ve ever read!
> 
> What substrate do you have out of interest Matt?



Akadama. It was labelled as 'double red hard line' and came in small or large grain size. I have the small. I like the colour and overall look. I wouldn't use it if I replanted regularly as it kicks up a little dust when disturbed.

I also don't bother vacuuming it, I'm not sure how it would hold up if I did. Might be fine, might not.

So, it's not perfect, but it's good for me.


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## Twisted Melon (18 Feb 2018)

So I’ve read loads about aquarium soil recently and I think I would like the boost it gives the plants from the get go. Also the colour is nice. 

Regarding ADA vs Tropica. Is there anybody here that has used both that can give me a real life experience review of the 2? 

My main concern is it breaking down and turning to mud. I’ve read polarising reviews on both. 

Thanks


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## Tim Harrison (18 Feb 2018)

I've used AS and I can thoroughly recommend it. I've reused it once as well, so the same bag is currently on its second scape. So far it's holding its shape well and because I dose fertz, and it has a high CEC, it's still "active", so my plants benefit from both water column dosing and root uptake.
I've also used Tropica but only in a W-K and found it to be perfectly fine. I think when I'm in the market for more substrate I'll give Tropica soil a go in a scape as well, if only because it's easier to come by in the UK without incurring large P&P costs.
However, I'm sure you could possibly find yourself with a bad batch of either, which may for instance disintegrate after very little use, but I should also imagine the chance is pretty slim.


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## Twisted Melon (18 Feb 2018)

Thanks Tim!


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## zozo (18 Feb 2018)

There are many alternatives out there and or DIY mixes possible with combining products..  It just isn't always 100% clear about what is what.

In the Bonsai trade there is Akadama, Kyodama, Kiryu. Akadama is the vulcanic clay version, the other 2 are vulcanic porous gravels in a different color. If you prefer black Fuji sand could be used which has little to do with sand but is a black vulcanic porous rock that comes in different grainsizes.

There are different pond gravels available one is from Velda that is strikingly simmular to the Japanese Kiryu both are porous river gravels.

Over the years in my tanks and garden (pond, tubs, buckets and baskets) i used about all of the above. When it comes to aquarium all have one con. They are roughly shaped, coarse and edgy this makes delicate planting a challange. It hooks into eachother and when compressed difficult to penetrate it can be a pain in the bottom to put plant in it with tweezers only. In a pot it's easy, take some soil out put the plant in soil back on top and ready. In an runing aquarium that can be a nightmare.

To consider is not realy the type of soil regarding what it's made from.. But more how is it shaped.. If you are from the type, plant it once and leave it as is till you totaly rescape there is little to worry. Are you the experimenting type that likes to replant and or rescape regularly than go for a rounded or a fine graind/sandy substrate that is easy to penetrate and easy to plant. But still has some weight to it to hold all in..

Akadama clay is such a pain in the neck for the first year, if to largly grained because it is a hard naturaly backed clay, but this improves over the years because it slowly softens. Since it is a natural product than the label hard from the distributor is rather very relative. 2 to 5 years is averagely Akadame life time before it starts. getting realy soft.. 

My 50 cents on it, take the best shape in regards to your own preference.


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## Twisted Melon (18 Feb 2018)

Good points to consider Zozo. Ta.


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## sparkyweasel (18 Feb 2018)

Another point about the rough-textured substratres is that they can injure fish that grub about in it, something to consider if you're going to keep corys, loaches, dwarf cichlids, many barbs etc.


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## Twisted Melon (18 Feb 2018)

So are Tropica and AS that tough then? I’d read that they were “silky smooth”?


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## ceg4048 (20 Feb 2018)

Aquasoil is as silky smooth as they come.

Cheers,


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