# Nano fish advice please!



## SueC (13 Apr 2022)

Hello!  I’m needing help with a decision about fish for a 30l cube nano tank.  I was not going to add any fish, because I know I shouldn’t really,  just have little orange shrimps, but it’s very tempting to just have a little something to swim around and watch isn’t it. 😆.  It’s  a low tech shrimp set up, filter is quite low flow, will have lots of plants when they grow in! Water conditions are all sort of average, neutral pH, moderate hardness, nothing extreme. 

Trouble is, everything I consider seems to have some sort of issue!   I would rather my shrimps or their babies didn’t get eaten, or my plants.  Can’t have anything that must live in a large group to be happy, etc etc.   Mid or top water swimmers would be nice.……I have considered ….sparkling  gourami…..ember tetra…..dwarf corys….dwarf pencils……...dwarf rasbora…….even glow lights (too big?) to go with the orange shrimps!  Endlers guppy’s? ……Just one single specimen of something interesting?…..(Please don’t mention a Betta…..🤐).  Perhaps there is something out there that I’ve not heard of 😆.

Or maybe I’m just being too silly…….here’s a quick photo..….know you all like a photo!


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## dw1305 (13 Apr 2022)

Hi all, 


SueC said:


> just have a little something to swim around and watch isn’t it. 😆. It’s a low tech shrimp set up, filter is quite low flow, will have lots of plants when they grow in!


<"Micro Rasbora?"> (_Boraras_ spp.)

cheers Darrel


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## jamiepearson (13 Apr 2022)

just cherry shrimp would be suitable for watching them swim around and would fit into a small tank


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## The Miniaturist (13 Apr 2022)

Hi there,
Nice tank, you've found a root which is in proportion.
Probably shrimp would be best. I think the small cube type tanks don't give enough swimming space. I've got a 25l nano but it has a rectangular shape so the fish can go up & down rather than just round & round my lump of mopani wood!
Though @dw1305's micro rasbora would look good too...


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## SueC (13 Apr 2022)

Thanks!  I actually have three small bits of wood in there, but I like the effect, even though they will not last very long when the shrimp get nibbling.  I need a few more plants in, I think, I’m just waiting to see how these ones do first! It’s only been set up a few weeks.
I’m still sitting on the fence regards any fish….I was considering the micro rasbora,  might look very nice with some orange shrimp. The only worry I have is that they may eat baby shrimp, which is not the plan……….


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## Gill (13 Apr 2022)

Have a look at  Sundadanio Axelrodi, shrimp safe nano fish. 
Sundadanio Axelrodi - Neon Blue Rasbora


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## seedoubleyou (13 Apr 2022)

I think unfortunately any fish that can fit baby shrimp into its mouth is likely going to.
Usually they can survive in larger tanks where they have more hiding options, but a small tank may make that harder.
You could if course keep shrimp and the fish species already mentioned, but if having babies is your goal, then maybe give fish a miss.


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## SueC (13 Apr 2022)

Oooooh those neon blue’s do look nice! Thanks!

I have quite a stable population of small red shrimps (Bloody Mary’s I think), in my larger 120L community tank.  I was hoping for a similar situation in the nano……but maybe not!  I’m sure plenty of the red ones get eaten, but enough survive. There’s always quite a few little ones knocking around! More thinking to do…..😄


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## dino21 (13 Apr 2022)

Hi,
Currently have a slightly larger 40cm cube tank and find that Endlers ( small version of the Guppy, ) very colourful and active over all areas of the tank, feel sure they would be idea for your tank,
If you shop around you will find various bright colours, think you will find 5 or 6 would be a good number to stop any pecking order.  We only purchased males as we did not want to start breeding them.

We also have dwarf corys again ideally at least 6 as they like to be in larger groups, though they can be quiet shy and keep hidden.

Last December we introduced 6 Cherry Shrimps,  like you thought they would be a nice colourful and useful addition, BIG mistake.
With no fish to eat their fry they multiplied at an amazing rate and have probably removed a couple of hundred  of young and medium sized ones already !

If anyone knows of a shrimp eater we could readily add to our small 40cm cube tanks it would be appreciated ..


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## seedoubleyou (13 Apr 2022)

dino21 said:


> If anyone knows of a shrimp eater we could readily add to our small 40cm cube tanks it would be appreciated ..


Pea puffer !!


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## SueC (13 Apr 2022)

Oh no!  🤣, we are never satisfied are we?  I guess a shrimp eater might be needed!🤣 
My larger tank just has the usual community fish…. Various Tetras, Rasboras, a few danios, cory’s, khuli loaches,  nothing very big and not overstocked, but well planted with plenty of hiding places.  I suspect the greedy danios are the main culprits for shrimp eating, but a 40 l might not be big enough for such an active fish, and you’d need a group of them, which might be too much!   Might khuli loaches eat baby shrimps?  Someone else will probably be able to answer that one!Or as per a previous answer….any fish with a big enough mouth …. But not too big…..will probably do!  Although mine do get eaten, there are still plenty survive.

I’ve had endlers guppy’s before, and have wondered about them in a small tank, they are nice and active aren’t they? Thanks for the heads up!  Dwarf Cory’s I’ve never had but always fancied some…..decisions decisions! 🤔


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## shangman (13 Apr 2022)

Maybe some rice fish? I'm keeping some in a 30cm cube with shrimps before they go and live outside in a tub, but I've become quite taken with them and will have to get some more for inside too or raise the babies in there. I haven't noticed them eating any shrimp at all, even tiny babies. I think you could keep about 5 in a 30cm cube, and if it seems too small long term you could set up a nice outside bowl pond for them. Ideally it would be good for the plants to grow in more first though I think, especially for the top half/surface of the tank


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## SueC (13 Apr 2022)

Yes, all the plants at the back apart from the crypt are still quite small, and I definitely need some more.   They are growing ok at the moment so I’m waiting and seeing what happens before I decide what to put in next!

I’d not considered rice fish, so something else to research, thank you !


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## tam (14 Apr 2022)

A single scarlet badis - they will potentially eat baby shrimp but they only grow to the length of an adult shrimp, so other than very tiny shrimp will be safe and I'd expect you would still find your shrimp population grew.

The neon blue rasboras are lovely too and not an issue with shrimp. They also are more of a hang out sort of fish rather than swim back and forth so I think are one of the better ones for a smaller tank.


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## pat1cp (14 Apr 2022)

What about a betta? I've got one in a larger cube with shrimp. I'm sure he's taken some fry, but he doesn't bother that much with the others. And, I really enjoy having him, bit of a character if I'm honest.

Link to thread here Introduction and my first planted tank.


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## seedoubleyou (14 Apr 2022)

Oh come on guys, you can’t beat a pea puffer !!
I might be bias as I love puffer fish


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## aec34 (14 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> Maybe some rice fish?


Slight thread highjack.… Rosie, where do you get them from? I never see them locally (planning a barrel pond outside).


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## shangman (14 Apr 2022)

aec34 said:


> Slight thread highjack.… Rosie, where do you get them from? I never see them locally (planning a barrel pond outside).


I got mine from from the Fish Barn and from Wildwoods World of Water, sometimes Maidenheads get them in too. Often you have to ask for them to be ordered in because they're bizarrely not that popular. They are quite expensive, minimum £5 and often a bit more depending on what colours you want.


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## seedoubleyou (14 Apr 2022)

Second the Maidenhead Aquatics. My local one is Reefkeeper Moss end, I’m sure I saw some in there a few days ago.
Little far from Gloucestershire  though.


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## aec34 (14 Apr 2022)

Thanks both - maybe a fish expedition is coming up at some point… 🤔


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## shangman (14 Apr 2022)

aec34 said:


> Thanks both - maybe a fish expedition is coming up at some point… 🤔


I do love a fish expedition 👀😂


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## MirandaB (14 Apr 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Oh come on guys, you can’t beat a pea puffer !!
> I might be bias as I love puffer fish


Pea puffers really need a group,you could keep one on its own but personally I wouldn't


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## seedoubleyou (14 Apr 2022)

MirandaB said:


> Pea puffers really need a group,you could keep one on its own but personally I wouldn't


They’re completely fine being alone, yes they can be found in shoals in the wild. But this is a defence against predation.
Dogs are pack animals yet we keep them solitary.
A single pea puffer well fed, and with a well planted tank to keep it stimulated is a happy puffer.


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## jamiepearson (14 Apr 2022)

They are a shoaling species. The dog analogy is irrelevant as they are entirely different species


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## seedoubleyou (14 Apr 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> They are a shoaling species. The dog analogy is irrelevant as they are entirely different species


Absolutely not irrelevant. It’s the exact same context. You’re humanising and putting human emotion on something that thinks differently.
As already said, puffers shoal becasue it offers protection from predation.
They’re perfectly fine as a single species, they’re extremely intelligent and inquisitive little fish, so providing your tank gives good stimulation, they have a few snails to hunt and are fed well. You’re left with a very happy little fish.
However if you’ve kept many puffer species yourself from freshwater to marine and everything in between, both in shoals and as singles. Then I’ll be happy for you to correct me.


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## ScareCrow (15 Apr 2022)

Hi @SueC lovely tank, that crypt is really nice.
I think the tank is too small for kuhlis as they need to be in groups and need plenty of cover to feel safe. They should be shrimp safe though, they're not the best hunters. Unless they happen to fall mouth first on to food  they're unlikely to get it. 
Personally I'd add the shrimp, wait for the population to increase and then add fish. That way assuming you are feeding the fish they physically won't be able to make a significant dent in your shrimp numbers. I'm not suggesting over feeding but lining there stomach with a bread roll equivalent before you let them loose on the all you can eat shrimp buffet.


aec34 said:


> Slight thread highjack.… Rosie, where do you get them from? I never see them locally (planning a barrel pond outside).


The Bristol (Keynsham) MH had Oryzias woworae a couple of months ago.



seedoubleyou said:


> As already said, puffers shoal becasue it offers protection from predation.


I only kept pea puffers in a trio, as I like to try and breed the fish I keep, so can't comment on them being kept singly. Also I'm not an animal behaviourist or Dr Dolittle so can't be certain about how happy a fish is but in response to the above.
We keep other shoaling fish in groups for this reason. They shoal in the wild for protection and to make them feel secure. Although puffers seem to recognise people, they still have that natural fear of being predated, so keeping them in groups would help reduce this.
With regards to marine tobies, triggers, puffers and brackish puffers. It depends on the species. Some are found in shoals, others are solitary. Some come together to breed in large groups and some only in pairs.
I think the problem with puffers is that unlike other shoaling fish that sort out their hierarchical disputes without causing much damage, puffers are armed with a sharp beak and it doesn't take much to do serious damage with it. So it's easier to keep them singly to avoid disputes and harm to conspecifics. Whether that's a problem or the lesser of the two 'evils' I don't know.

I don't have dog(s) but worked in a  kennel as a teenager. They certainly show different behaviour in groups. I wouldn't keep them in a tank though. Even though it looks like this guy does.


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## PARAGUAY (15 Apr 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> They are a shoaling species. The dog analogy is irrelevant as they are entirely different species


I think dogs think of us as part of the pack but two legged versions


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## seedoubleyou (15 Apr 2022)

@ScareCrow  That did make me laugh. (As words are often taken wrong, laugh in a good way)
With 95% of things in this hobby, we can only speak for our experience.
I’ve kept a lot of puffer fish and done a lot of reading on the puffer forum (lots of advice from marine biologist) if that means anything I don’t know.
I think ultimately for anyone, if you don’t want to keep a fish singularly, then don’t.
I will say though, you saying you don’t know if your fish are happy, do you not feel morally wrong then keeping a living animal you’re not even sure is happy in your care?


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## seedoubleyou (15 Apr 2022)

I’m just teasing with the above. I’m not aiming to be difficult. 
We only ever do what we think is best in this hobby, and hope we provide the best care, the behaviour our fish display is always the best indicator to how we’re doing.

We’ll agree to disagree, but agree that we all only do what we feel is right.


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## ScareCrow (15 Apr 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> I will say though, you saying you don’t know if your fish are happy, do you not feel morally wrong then keeping a living animal you’re not even sure is happy in your care?


Yep, it's a constant moral struggle I have with myself. The amount of time I spend checking requirements, double checking requirements, verifying what I've read is correct, is shocking.

Part of the reason I like breeding fish is that I feel at least I'm giving something back, especially with wild caught species.

The best thing I heard when keeping marines was "my hobby is keeping animals in a box and glueing them to pieces of rock". It is an odd thing to do when you think about it.


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## seedoubleyou (15 Apr 2022)

ScareCrow said:


> Yep, it's a constant moral struggle I have with myself. The amount of time I spend checking requirements, double checking requirements, verifying what I've read is correct, is shocking.
> 
> Part of the reason I like breeding fish is that I feel at least I'm giving something back, especially with wild caught species.
> 
> The best thing I heard when keeping marines was "my hobby is keeping animals in a box and glueing them to pieces of rock". It is an odd thing to do when you think about it.


The hobby definitely needs more breeders I can say that much for certain


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