# Algae won't go away and i am running out of ideas tracing the cause



## Paulus (6 Mar 2022)

Never had mayor algae issues in the past 20 years (even made it to an article in a UK aquarium magazine for an interview ) compared to my current tank. In the past i always used the EI method for dosing. Just plain filter sand as "soil" for the plants. Plants did perfect and only had some hair algae when the filter flow was low or when the co2 was running out. But a quick filter clean or new co2 bottle fixed that within a week.

But the plants grew so fast with that EI dosing so i wanted to try lean dosing (planted-box A1O leandosing) with my new tank which is using better light, 2 filters, professional soil etc etc

But the bba, gba etc is hitting and it keeps coming back.
Only thing left for me now what could be the cause will be the low nitrates level.
All other factors looks okay.






 

 



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*Setup:*
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*Aquarium*
ADA 120P (120x50x50)

*Soil*
Tropica soil

*Light*
wrgb2 120cm
running at 70%-55%-70%
light time is 8 hour (turns on at 12:00 and turns off at 20:00) and has a 1 hour ramptime included (12:00-12:30 and 19:30-20:00)

*Filtering*
1x eheim eheim professionel 4+ 600
1x eheim 2217 classic
all plants are moving no visible deathspots

*CO2*
starting at 09:00 and turns off at 19:30
checker is green/lime during the light period
checker placed on different positions in the tank and all same levels. No deathspots again.
its running via an inline diffusor. All the co2 mist is in the tank visible and plants are pearling.

*Dosing*
everyday (excluded sunday because of maintenance) a dosingpump is pumping 16ml of planted-box a1o fertz in the tank at exectly 10:00h
(a dosage of 28ml on 100L aquarium water gives: 0,25ppm FE, 12ppm CA5ppm NO3 and 2,5ppm PO4)

*water quality*
NO3 = 0mg/l yellow colour, tested with sera nitrate drop tester)
PO4 = 1,0mg/l (sera drop tester)

*Maintenance*
Every sunday trimmings, waterchange (50%), cleaning glass etc etc

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So i am running out of ideas......
Any tips or things i could change/try?
Could it be a NO3/nitrate issue and should i dose extra NO3? (still have plenty off that in a bag from the EI dosing)
What would be a good NO3 to aim for? Are there better NO3 tests on the market (sera can only detect from 0 - 10 - 25 - 50mg/l, so if it would be 5mg/l i cant tell)

I want my fresh/healthy planted tank back like i always had before in the last 20 years


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## PARAGUAY (6 Mar 2022)

Your plants look off pictures pretty good. You said you updated your lighting? Might be a clue there reduce intensity or /and add floating plants. Try reducing photoperiod  keep up with water changes and removing as much algae as can .


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## Andy Pierce (6 Mar 2022)

Ferts, light, CO2:  you're trying to hold back growth by limiting ferts.  If that's not working for you, you could instead try limiting light (which has already been suggested) or limiting CO2.  I'm trying this last approach, by EI dosing a tank that does not have any injected CO2 gas or liquid carbon added.  We're five weeks in and so far so good but still early days of course...


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## Hanuman (6 Mar 2022)

Paulus said:


> checker is green/lime during the light period


Is your PH dropping a good 1PH point from degassed water after CO2 is on for a good hour?



Paulus said:


> everyday (excluded sunday because of maintenance) a dosingpump is pumping 16ml of planted-box a1o fertz in the tank at exectly 10:00h
> (a dosage of 28ml on 100L aquarium water gives: 0,25ppm FE, 12ppm CA5ppm NO3 and 2,5ppm PO4)


Where is the K, Mg and traces in all that? In any case I think you are under dosing considering that a 28ml dosage for 100L provides those ppm, yet you are only dosing 16ml for a tank that is 300L and then doing 50% WC weekly. Plants are hungry. They are starving considering the medium/high lights and CO2 you are pumping. Algae are there to let you know that.

Check your CO2 first to make sure you are good on that side. Also mechanically remove all infected plants. You can spot dose hardscape if needed. Then start bumping  up your ferts.

If what you want is a slower growth rate then perhaps lowering your light intensity (and or temperature if that is possible for you) is what I would do. You might also need to adjust CO2. Just make sure that all plants you have in your tank are fine at lower light intensity, lower CO2 levels.


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## Hanuman (7 Mar 2022)

Actually I went through <that fertilizer> and your dosing regime. I think by Ca you meant K. There is no Calcium in that Fertilizer. That company produces 2 AIO fertilisers: an EI version and a Lean version. You are using the lean version and you are actually dosing as recommended, perhaps even slightly more but I don't see any issue with that:



I would say Nitrate is on the low side.
 Also, you are using Tropica soil. Since I have never used that soil I don't know how rich it is but if that tank is already several months old and that it is heavily planted then the substrate might start to be deficient. Also you didn't mention if those water changes are done with TAP or RO.


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## palcente (7 Mar 2022)

_"wrgb2 120cm running at 70%-55%-70%,_ _plants are pearling "_- indication that it could be way too much light in relation to co2 & nutrients (especially with lean dosing!!!), when you changed the light, did you start at that setting or built it up to 70% gradually?

_"Every sunday trimmings" - _what are you trimming each week and how much of it? I triggered algae by trimming too much before - are you in a trim/algae cycle? Release a lot of chemistry/organics into the water column and just when the filter is done processing it all, you trim again?

"_and 2,5ppm PO4_" - you dose 2.5ppm, but you only read 1ppm - did you check at the substrate level? If yes, is the test dodgy or are your ferts dodgy? I found that in my tank for 2ppm of P,  I need to dose around 30ppm of N to (almost) completely avoid algae (still getting some bba spots on just one type of moss). I also keep the same light (WRGB2) at around 50%, which I have been building up gradually from 25%.


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## Cd2021 (7 Mar 2022)

Hi Paulus,

Also having a WRGB2, 70% is really high. I haven't even made it passed 45% without a massive outbreak. I'm only running at 25% at present because of this.

My suggestion would take a sample of the tank water, allow to degas for a good 12-24 hours, test this with a PH probe. Then test your water @ lights on. And drop your lights whilst you're messing about with the Co2 levels.

Thanks
Chris


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## erwin123 (7 Mar 2022)

If you are getting algae outbreaks, too much light is certainly a possible trigger.  On the other hand some plants show nicer colours under brighter lights.  

If >25% light intensity on WRGB2 is causing algae outbreaks, do look into (1) CO2 optimisation (2) tank cleanliness (3) water flow, especially to substrate level


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## dw1305 (7 Mar 2022)

Hi all,


Paulus said:


> Only thing left for me now what could be the cause will be the low nitrates level.





PARAGUAY said:


> Your plants look off pictures pretty good.


I'd guess that it isn't a nitrate (NO3-) effect as well. As @PARAGUAY says the plants look a good green and usually the <"degree of green coloration and fixed nitrogen availability"> are closely related.

Nitrate testing is quite <"problematic at low levels">, which is why I tend to use the leaf colour chart as a <"proxy for nitrate level">. In this case I'm going to equate nitrate levels with levels of all <"fixed nitrogen">. 

The difficulty in testing for nitrate (NO3-) was actually one of the drivers for the, independent, development of both <"Estimative"> and <"Duckweed"> Indices.


PARAGUAY said:


> Might be a clue there reduce intensity or /and add floating plants.


I'd try that. <"A floating plant"> (ideally Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_)) would also allow you to <"discount CO2 availability"> from <"your options">.

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (7 Mar 2022)

Dear Member
Please give as much detail as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help!
Please upload photographs if possible.
Copy and Paste the list below...and add your answers to each number on the list!

1. Size of tank in litres.
2. Age of the set - up.
3. Filtration.
4. Lighting and duration.
5. Substrate.
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing.
7. Fertilizers used &  Ratios.
8. Water change regime and type.
9. Plant list + When planted.
10. Inhabitants.
11. Full tank shot & Surface Image.
hoggie


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## Paulus (7 Mar 2022)

First of all: Thanks everybody for the feedback 


PARAGUAY said:


> Your plants look off pictures pretty good. You said you updated your lighting? Might be a clue there reduce intensity or /and add floating plants. Try reducing photoperiod  keep up with water changes and removing as much algae as can .


Lighting was new with this tank build/setup.
My old tank was a diy led with some extra cheap flood lights.

At the start of the new tank i had 3 weeks dark start (because of waiting of the plants and other stuff). And the first 2 months i started with 40% light and build it slowly up.


Andy Pierce said:


> Ferts, light, CO2:  you're trying to hold back growth by limiting ferts.  If that's not working for you, you could instead try limiting light (which has already been suggested) or limiting CO2.  I'm trying this last approach, by EI dosing a tank that does not have any injected CO2 gas or liquid carbon added.  We're five weeks in and so far so good but still early days of course...





Hanuman said:


> Is your PH dropping a good 1PH point from degassed water after CO2 is on for a good hour?
> 
> 
> Where is the K, Mg and traces in all that? In any case I think you are under dosing considering that a 28ml dosage for 100L provides those ppm, yet you are only dosing 16ml for a tank that is 300L and then doing 50% WC weekly. Plants are hungry. They are starving considering the medium/high lights and CO2 you are pumping. Algae are there to let you know that.
> ...


Will try to bring the light period and intensity down to 6 or 7 hours and see if that will help reduce the algae.



Hanuman said:


> Actually I went through <that fertilizer> and your dosing regime. I think by Ca you meant K. There is no Calcium in that Fertilizer. That company produces 2 AIO fertilisers: an EI version and a Lean version. You are using the lean version and you are actually dosing as recommended, perhaps even slightly more but I don't see any issue with that:
> View attachment 184174
> I would say Nitrate is on the low side.
> Also, you are using Tropica soil. Since I have never used that soil I don't know how rich it is but if that tank is already several months old and that it is heavily planted then the substrate might start to be deficient. Also you didn't mention if those water changes are done with TAP or RO.


woops i mean K instead of C. Yeah the advised dosing for this A10 is 28ml on 100L per week. So is should dose 14ml per day for my tank but i tried 16ml  per day for a month now as test.
First time using tropica soil (my old tanks and scapes always had just plain filter sand as soil. First time using a proper soil.
Water changes are done with tap water. Always used the dutch tap water here in the past 20 years.


palcente said:


> _"wrgb2 120cm running at 70%-55%-70%,_ _plants are pearling "_- indication that it could be way too much light in relation to co2 & nutrients (especially with lean dosing!!!), when you changed the light, did you start at that setting or built it up to 70% gradually?
> 
> _"Every sunday trimmings" - _what are you trimming each week and how much of it? I triggered algae by trimming too much before - are you in a trim/algae cycle? Release a lot of chemistry/organics into the water column and just when the filter is done processing it all, you trim again?
> 
> "_and 2,5ppm PO4_" - you dose 2.5ppm, but you only read 1ppm - did you check at the substrate level? If yes, is the test dodgy or are your ferts dodgy? I found that in my tank for 2ppm of P,  I need to dose around 30ppm of N to (almost) completely avoid algae (still getting some bba spots on just one type of moss). I also keep the same light (WRGB2) at around 50%, which I have been building up gradually from 25%.


Light was build up from the start. Started with 40%
Trimmings depends on the plants. The rotala's (green, h'ra, which isn't turning red like it did in my old tank with crappy led light, rotundifolia) i need to trim every ~3 weeks. 
hygrophila pinnatifida removing the runners and leaves with algaes.
Monte carlo als removing the top layer because of the algae. Blyxa cutting some tops that had algae on it.
Other plants like pogostemon helferi and the other slow growing crypts only the leaves if the contain algae. But the slow growing plants are most of the time clean of algae.


Cd2021 said:


> Hi Paulus,
> 
> Also having a WRGB2, 70% is really high. I haven't even made it passed 45% without a massive outbreak. I'm only running at 25% at present because of this.
> 
> ...


Which rgb values are you using?
Will try to lower the light intensity.


erwin123 said:


> If you are getting algae outbreaks, too much light is certainly a possible trigger.  On the other hand some plants show nicer colours under brighter lights.
> 
> If >25% light intensity on WRGB2 is causing algae outbreaks, do look into (1) CO2 optimisation (2) tank cleanliness (3) water flow, especially to substrate level


Will try to lower the light intensity. 


dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I'd guess that it isn't a nitrate (NO3-) effect as well. As @PARAGUAY says the plants look a good green and usually the <"degree of green coloration and fixed nitrogen availability"> are closely related.
> ...


Yeah nitrates are weird to measure with a aqua soil because it will take it so the water column will give you "wrong measurments".
First time using a proper soil so still learning how that works with a hightech tank  

So for now i'll try to lower the light hours &  intensity. Seems thats the one with the biggest effect/cause at this moment.

Again thanks all for the input


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## Cd2021 (8 Mar 2022)

Hi Paulus, 

Honestly V V low at present. 25% recovering from an algae outbreak. I doubt I’ll go over 40%, plan to increase a couple of percent a week. 

Thanks
Chris


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