# New TMC Mini LED 400



## Radik

Ok Guys who know what is the price and when available? on PFK they said end of May.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3898

It should be 4 Osram SSL LED's (80 or 150 degree spread, I guess 80 for TMC) which seems to be of same efficiency as CREE XP-G Q5.

This little thing will run on 12W at 1000mA which should give around 1100 Lumens which could be as 24W+ T5 on PAR level I guess and I just recently started my DIY LED for P&H nano with 4x XP-G but I would use them on sides of main tank and buy this new TMC for nano instead.

Somewhere on other forum I've seen 39 pounds and it should come with dimmer... If true this light will be no brainer  for nano


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## Tom

If they're £39 then I'll almost definitely get one  Or two... maybe 3?


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## Westyggx

This is just what im after as well for my P@H Tank.


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## Eboeagles

Ditto - when and where will they be available?


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## ghostsword

Tom said:
			
		

> If they're £39 then I'll almost definitely get one  Or two... maybe 3?



Where did you get those prices? At £39 is a steal...


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## Tom

From the OP!!


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## ghostsword

OP.. ? Don't know what it is.. sorry.. But £39 is a good price.


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## Tom

Original poster, Radik!


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## ghostsword

Tom said:
			
		

> Original poster, Radik!



ahh..  silly me.. thanks,


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## Sentral

Can't really tell what it looks like, do they come with a clip or something? But yeah, concept sounds good


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## hotweldfire

There's some kind of separate mounting system I believe. Would be very interested in one of these.


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## Radik

I called TMC they won't talk much to me unless I am registered retailer so I called some other retailer and asked for release date and price. They said around September, but TMC said this week fro release lol. And retailer said price in range of 70-90 which triggered me to finish my DIY nano led fixture for less than half of that.


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## Eboeagles

Wish they'd hurry up already, although that price point seems a bit prohibitive to me as its for nano's.

would be nice if PFK offered it up as a subscription offer


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## ghostsword

Radik said:
			
		

> I called TMC they won't talk much to me unless I am registered retailer so I called some other retailer and asked for release date and price. They said around September, but TMC said this week fro release lol. And retailer said price in range of 70-90 which triggered me to finish my DIY nano led fixture for less than half of that.



Yep, almost £100 is a lot of money for that. 

Better to learn how to setup a led box.


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## Radik

Check my new P&H nano  thread  I made custom led for 30 pounds matching TMC. I could help you with something it is not difficult.


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## ghostsword

Radik said:
			
		

> Check my new P&H nano  thread  I made custom led for 30 pounds matching TMC. I could help you with something it is not difficult.


Thanks, will check it out.

From what I understand we need the LEDs, a device called a driver and that is it, right? 


---
- .


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## si-man

Any news on this light?


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## He-Man

yeah I have some news and you're not going to like it but as far as I can gather, through retailers always happy to ring tmc and the reply ,  every place I went (six best in nottingham area ) was the same.."tmc aren't releasing mini led 400 at all and pfk have got it wrapped round their necks" now... this can't just be a coincidence surely?  

I've got to admit... I stopped buying it  and if it does come out then whoopeedoo for nano, sure that they make an excellent nano clip anyway and very affordable too


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## ghostsword

There are other ways to have a led out of the box, and way cheaper than this.

The guys from salt water tanks have clip on e27 or e14 bulbs, and you can get those lights on led. 

I got a e27 that is about 100w bright, and two e14 that give as much light as 50w, but no heat. 




.


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## ghostsword

This is what I am talking about:
http://www.boostled.com/collections/par ... lamp-clamp


.


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## Radik

ghostsword said:
			
		

> This is what I am talking about:
> http://www.boostled.com/collections/par ... lamp-clamp
> .


I've seen that one before but I haven't seen reasonable priced daylight PAR lamps E27 for sale in the UK. Clamp and bulb can get you to 80-100 GBP range so DIY is far cheaper. Sad TMC won't make it for release...


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## Radik

He-Man said:
			
		

> yeah I have some news and you're not going to like it but as far as I can gather, through retailers always happy to ring tmc and the reply ,  every place I went (six best in nottingham area ) was the same.."tmc aren't releasing mini led 400 at all and pfk have got it wrapped round their necks" now... this can't just be a coincidence surely?
> 
> I've got to admit... I stopped buying it  and if it does come out then whoopeedoo for nano, sure that they make an excellent nano clip anyway and very affordable too



OH OH I see your news are not true... I almost fall for it, look what is available for 65   
There it is!!!
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -4873.html


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## si-man

Charterhouse have them at £64.95 I believe the price is..

Stupid phone didn't show that link then


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## ghostsword

WOW, buy before they change the price!


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## George Farmer

I'll be using a couple of these soon for an aquascaping demo in Barcelona. I'll let you know how I get on with them.


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## Radik

I am still not sure whatever there is some clamp included or not or just single tile, any idea? And why they should change price for it? It is reasonably priced yet still most expensive nano LED available.


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## He-Man

yes thats where I saw it first and I have to admit it got me going, tell us when you have one in your hands please   plus they already changed the price as it was marked thirty five pounds on that site absoluteley ages ago like about six months        maybe this is how you will understand communicating     thanks I haven't had a good giggle like the one your post made 8)  

  He-Man wrote:yeah I have some news and you're not going to like it but as far as I can gather, through retailers always happy to ring tmc and the reply ,  every place I went (six best in nottingham area ) was the same.."tmc aren't releasing mini led 400 at all and pfk have got it wrapped round their necks" now... this can't just be a coincidence surely? 

    I've got to admit... I stopped buying it and if it does come out then whoopeedoo for nano, sure that they make an excellent nano clip anyway and very affordable too which I do have in my hands   



OH OH I see your news are not true... I almost fall for it, look what is available for 65 
There it is!!! right infront of your eyes though not in anybody's hands yet... hmmm    must be true like back to the future films and stuff eh?    

any luck anybody? 
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -4873.html

I would be laughing even harder if I manage to get one in my hands and above my nanos oh oh this news is well old


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## He-Man

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Radick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check my new P&H nano  thread  I made custom led for 30 pounds matching TMC. I could help you with something it is not difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, will check it out.
> 
> From what I understand we need the LEDs, a device called a driver and that is it, right?
> 
> 
> ---
> - .
Click to expand...

 You can't possibly match those LEDs they are patented unless you have a broken model you're willing to repair, good luck by the way as all your attempts are not in vain, they just push the quality up of the ones we can buy


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## He-Man

Radick said:
			
		

> Ok Guys who know what is the price and when available? on PFK they said end of May.
> 
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3898
> 
> It should be 4 Osram SSL LED's (80 or 150 degree spread, I guess 80 for TMC) which seems to be of same efficiency as CREE XP-G Q5.
> 
> This little thing will run on 12W at 1000mA which should give around 1100 Lumens which could be as 24W+ T5 on PAR level I guess and I just recently started my DIY LED for P&H nano with 4x XP-G but I would use them on sides of main tank and buy this new TMC for nano instead.
> 
> Somewhere on other forum I've seen 39 pounds and it should come with dimmer... If true this light will be no brainer  for nano



why because their LEDs are far better than any  you can possess or  currently craft with. ooh sorry you won't know what I mean let me put it another way:             still waiting


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## Radik

He-Man said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Radick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check my new P&H nano  thread  I made custom led for 30 pounds matching TMC. I could help you with something it is not difficult.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, will check it out.
> 
> From what I understand we need the LEDs, a device called a driver and that is it, right?
> 
> 
> ---
> - .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't possibly match those LEDs they are patented unless you have a broken model you're willing to repair, good luck by the way as all your attempts are not in vain, they just push the quality up of the ones we can buy
Click to expand...


No I can't match those LED's you are right  I made it better as my LED's can go higher power than those used by TMC. They use Osram Oslon SSL and they run to 1A, I have free sample from Osram as I was curious. I am using CREE XP-G they go to 1.5A so TMC LED can go to 12W my fixture is capable of 16W... but currently running 6W only and getting PAR readings around 50 at substrate. And my fixture is dimmable too 

About patented.. what is patented there? Osram LED's? Yes but you can buy them freely online.


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## hotweldfire

OK, so how do you mount these? Do you have to use the rail system and hang from ceiling?

Also, what size tank would they be suitable for? Overkill on a 27 litre?


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## He-Man

There is already available a multi adjustable mounting system compatible with tmc's led equipment, it's called a modular mounting system mms this sits on the aquarium sides.
If this led 400 tile does actually surface I would imagine it would definitely be good for 45l plus and the micro led would be perfect for 27 litres I have two for my 45 mounted either side and at 35 ish pounds is a snip for one


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## si-man

I was looking at using one on my 27l. Might be worth investing in the controller.


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## hotweldfire

He-Man said:
			
		

> There is already available a multi adjustable mounting system compatible with tmc's led equipment, it's called a modular mounting system mms this sits on the aquarium sides.
> If this led 400 tile does actually surface I would imagine it would definitely be good for 45l plus and the micro led would be perfect for 27 litres I have two for my 45 mounted either side and at 35 ish pounds is a snip for one



By micro, you mean this one?

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/aquagro-micro-habitat-led-light-p-5303.html

Thought this would be inadequate for my 27l and was thinking the 400 tile instead. The micro comes as standard on the aquagro 8 litre tank setup, no? If sold for use with an 8 litre tank how could it be enough for 27 litres?


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## Eboeagles

hotweldfire said:
			
		

> He-Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By micro, you mean this one?
> 
> http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/aquagro-micro-habitat-led-light-p-5303.html
> 
> Thought this would be inadequate for my 27l and was thinking the 400 tile instead. The micro comes as standard on the aquagro 8 litre tank setup, no? If sold for use with an 8 litre tank how could it be enough for 27 litres?
Click to expand...


If thats the one, I agree with Hotweldfire!

I've been looking at the 400 for my 20l - I can't see this micro would be enough (my 20l is 30cm deep).  Anyone tried it on something bigger than the aquagro habitat? 

Im gutted this mini LED is coming in so expensive!! The nano light search goes on...


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## He-Man

Fair enough and it certainly looks like the one I have two of.
I kinda underestimated them too before they saved my hair grass- I'd waited months for the tile thinking the wait would be worth it - before I bought the micros two months ago 
glad I didn't shun them quickly, maybe a little research on led lighting of today's ilk could benefit you slightly? the depth penetration and wider range for a pointer.


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## hotweldfire

The nano light search is some kafka-esque nightmare ..........


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## He-Man

true   but at least there's a tried and tested fall back if not soon the new t2 bulbs or high power output cfl bulbs that the medical industry is snaffling before we get a sniff of as production couldn't keep up because of the health benefits of natural daylight they give off for hospitals, clinics and such


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## He-Man

I managed to get by on a t8 power compact till i could take no more of seeing my hairgrass melt away


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## He-Man

Eboeagles said:
			
		

> hotweldfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He-Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By micro, you mean this one?
> 
> http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/aquagro-micro-habitat-led-light-p-5303.html
> 
> Thought this would be inadequate for my 27l and was thinking the 400 tile instead. The micro comes as standard on the aquagro 8 litre tank setup, no? If sold for use with an 8 litre tank how could it be enough for 27 litres?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If thats the one, I agree with Hotweldfire!
> 
> I've been looking at the 400 for my 20l - I can't see this micro would be enough (my 20l is 30cm deep).  Anyone tried it on something bigger than the aquagro habitat?
> 
> Im gutted this mini LED is coming in so expensive!! The nano light search goes on...
Click to expand...

 
It's so expensive because things haven't been done before, remember how mobile/cell phones used to cost the earth and now they are five p for a hundred

by the way did you read that I have been using two on a  15 inch high 45l ? very good I say and see above 

lol does anybody want to do the math? ok 45 divided by two is 22.5 Litres here, I'm blooming in my 45 with two lights either side almost looking up and winking at me saying it's going to be alright while peeing day light all over those plants thriving within two months of use and as a 45 is usually 15 inches deep and we have to include substrate in our math...
maybe the help is just there for those who look? now in my honest opinion you could do well with it and if the 400 tile surfaces then great but better for my 45  .., you don't have to buy it really so keep searching maybe you'll go full circle and let us know the positives and or negatives out there.
whats five litres? when you have the penetration and range of the led not to mention the spectrum and savings
after all these new generation of leds were originally developed for corals by tmc ( Tropical Marine Marine centre) and we are merely reaping the by-products
maybe I'm lucky to have knowledge of deep coral tanks and the benefits of the new generation of leds but the information is all out there just google it , check the diy led at the krib.com too 
my nano reef loves the micro and thats probably 30l


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## He-Man

come to think of it, your probably cheaper off using an energy saving high wattage bulb or two with a diy foil reflector while you wait, this is working very well on another 45 driftwood scape I have with 4 cfl bulbs, compact flourescent-the energy saving ones-so much so I might leave it that way for a bit till i can cut the energy and replacement bill in half with leds soon


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## Radik

I am pretty sure that 12W TMC 400 will be more than enough for any 30 cube nano or even something larger based on my DIY LED output.

These Osram LED's come in 2 setups 80 Degree beam and 150 degree beam angles. Now I am almost 100% sure they would not give 150 degree beam LED inside as that would render them useless. At 80 Degree beam angle you get fantastic penetration and spread for your nano. On other hand 80 degree beam angles are more useful for deeper tanks than 30cm 35cm deep cubes. My guess is it can penetrate easy to 45cm deep tanks. But don't get me wrong this will give plenty light with pefrect spread for any nano's out there we use.

Now I can only guess PAR output but at the substrate of 30cm cube it could be around PAR 100-120 which is plenty for planted tank. I grow my plants at 45-55 at substrate level without problem (except glosso ).


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## Eboeagles

Radik said:
			
		

> I am pretty sure that 12W TMC 400 will be more than enough for any 30 cube nano or even something larger based on my DIY LED output.
> 
> These Osram LED's come in 2 setups 80 Degree beam and 150 degree beam angles. Now I am almost 100% sure they would not give 150 degree beam LED inside as that would render them useless. At 80 Degree beam angle you get fantastic penetration and spread for your nano. On other hand 80 degree beam angles are more useful for deeper tanks than 30cm 35cm deep cubes. My guess is it can penetrate easy to 45cm deep tanks. But don't get me wrong this will give plenty light with pefrect spread for any nano's out there we use.
> 
> Now I can only guess PAR output but at the substrate of 30cm cube it could be around PAR 100-120 which is plenty for planted tank. I grow my plants at 45-55 at substrate level without problem (except glosso ).



Hey Radik thanks for the detail but we were questioning the TMC micro that he-man mentioned. I'm sure the tmc 400 would be more than enough.

He-man also thanks for the detail & help. For me I'm looking for a single unit - having to buy two seems ridiculous to me & there are plenty of units out there where if I bought two they would work. The search is for something that looks good & does the job. I don't really want something that looks like the standard  dennerle / arcpod unit but im probably heading that way! I love the look of overhead luminaires but sadly the smallest ones ive seen just look too big! Ideally it would be 25 - 30 cm max.

The TMC 400 looked like an exciting option but as mentioned seems rather steep!


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## si-man

Anyone tried one of these yet? Thinking of ordering one Monday and making a light unit out of a pipe, wood and bits.


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## Vyncenze

Reviving an old thread but does anyone have any experience with these tiles yet? I'm considering one for a 60l cube but I wonder if the micro led version would be big enough instead - I only want to grow mosses, java fern etc.

Also, anyone seen the difference between the microhabitat LED clip-on and the "micro led 200"? Which is bigger/more powerful out of the two?


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## si-man

Ive had one for over a month, sat in the box waiting for the F'in mountaray bracket to come out. TMC, useless.


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## Vyncenze

Both Aquaessentials and reefstore have the brackets in stock now - 20 quid. What size tank you putting it on?


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## si-man

Ah sweet, got one ordered now. Mines on a 30L with an aquaray controller as you will need one since they are pretty bright


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## Vyncenze

Ordered mine too, will try to get a pic up.


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## pepedopolous

Definitely tempted by this tech! (Ramping the light up and down gradually and moonlight). So I'm looking forward to your feedback. 

It seems you can get them from swelluk.com too. I live in the Czech Republic but it think I would have to order from the UK as TMC products are not really stocked much in the Czech Republic or Germany.


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## mintsauce

I’ve had one over a 30ltr Fluval tank I got free from Practical Fishkeeping for a couple of months now and it’s been great. Had to make a mounting box for it to sit on and it’s only 4” above the water surface (sitting on the cover glass) My mount limits the light spread a bit, but I kind of like the fact the internal filter is in the shade. I’ll try and get a picture tonight, but the growth has been great, I’ve had a little bit of thread algae but that’s all. I love the shimmer effect. – I’m only a beginner and this is just my second tank

I doubt you'll get the spread over a 60 ltr though with just 1 tile


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## mintsauce

As promised... The lighting in this shot isn't from the TMC (it's a flash) but the plant growth has been pretty good for a couple of months, just trimed it back as some plants had broken the surface.


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## Orlando

Anyway to get a pic of the light powered on over the tank without the Flash?


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## si-man

My bracket should be here tonight. Will try and get a decent  picture


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## mintsauce

Here's one from when I first set it up, it's hard to depict the exact lighting, as it all comes down to the exposure from the camera settings (this was just grabbed using my phone) Photo taken on Oct 19th, the moss growth has been great. I replanted the foreground shortly after this shot.


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## Orlando

Thats looks very nice and well lit. I dont see much issue with growing most anything with these nano lights. Thank you


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## Vyncenze

Here is a quick photo from my phone of the LED tile with the Mountaray. There's no other lights on in the room:





Not the best photo, but shows the setup. I have to say it is the perfect size for my 40 x 40 x 40 cube. If anything it's a little too bright for my low-light setup, but it can always be dimmed. The coverage across the tank is very good, because the mounting bracket holds the tile quite high above the water surface.

The bracket is a little plasticky, but sturdy and pretty well built. I'm very pleased with it, overall.


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## Orlando

Excellent. Thank you for sharing this, your phone takes nice photos by the way.


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## ghostsword

I have the mountings, amazingly well built.

Would like to get the light unit, but really not sure how bright would it be, as I have a 45cm tall tank.

Also, can they be linked to a controler? And powered up from a single psu?

Thanks,
Luis


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## Orlando

From my research they are compatible with TMC controllers. There is a link to PFK in the first post that has a decent write up.


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## pepedopolous

That does indeed look awesome! So tempting...


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## Radik

It is cool but pricey if you want dimming feature otherwise you may be giving too much light. Unit 65, Bracket 20, Controller 65. My understanding was dimming will be build in but TMC idiots made it through controller to milk money. But nice light though.


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## Orlando

I just received our cargo of TMC and installed one over a 30C. Luckily I have this light suspended because it packs a massive punch. Sorry for the poor quality iPhone photo.


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## ghostsword

Wow! Might get one then. I have currently 2 x 24 w over a 100l tank, and more than enough light for me. Would try these if they compare, two units, then get the controller. 

The larger ones are still too expensive for me to justify them. 


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## si-man

That's at 40%

Was a quick photo. The shimmer is nuts and my phone didnt like it


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## Orlando

Did you hook yours up to the controller? I only assume this due to the intensity level, just wanted to be sure.


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## si-man

Yep it's on a controller. Set at 40%, on for 6 hours.


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## Orlando

Cool, do I spy aluminum dosing bottles next to your tank? Slick


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## Vyncenze

http://coventryaquatics.com/marine-ghl- ... bbb1b50ffe

Cheaper than an aquaray controller anyway...


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## Radik

Vyncenze said:
			
		

> http://coventryaquatics.com/marine-ghl-profilux-ghlledcontrol1dimmingcontrolfortmcaquaraytile-p-378.html?osCsid=cbae4f3bf10602a39c29edbbb1b50ffe
> 
> Cheaper than an aquaray controller anyway...



I do not see how does it work. I do not see display to set intensity or potentiometer to do it manually. Does it require additional power supply or is it integrated as with aquaray? I think it needs additional GHL unit to do the actual controll. In that case it is useless.

It is not that cheap if you want to connect 2 aquarays then it costs same as from TMC


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## Vyncenze

Radik said:
			
		

> Vyncenze said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://coventryaquatics.com/marine-ghl-profilux-ghlledcontrol1dimmingcontrolfortmcaquaraytile-p-378.html?osCsid=cbae4f3bf10602a39c29edbbb1b50ffe
> 
> Cheaper than an aquaray controller anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do not see how does it work. I do not see display to set intensity or potentiometer to do it manually. Does it require additional power supply or is it integrated as with aquaray? I think it needs additional GHL unit to do the actual controll. In that case it is useless.
> 
> It is not that cheap if you want to connect 2 aquarays then it costs same as from TMC
Click to expand...


Yeah I don't really know what the score is with them, I just know they can replace the controller. I would imagine you still need a power supply, but didn't that used to be the case with a Tmc controller too? I have seen them very cheap on eBay in the past, but I can't comment on whether they're worth buying.


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## Eboeagles

So after being impressed with them after seeing them in the flesh and being in a slightly drunken state after my work xmas do this afternoon. I've just taken the plunge on buying one of these as someone has them on ebay for £55 with free postage (its is Christmas after all):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TMC-Solid-Sta ... 1c22246f5a

I've also ordered the mount, so now I'm left on the controller to dim the light as it as it seems from reading this thread it will be far too bright for my 20l Dennerle (although obviously it is pretty deep).

So I'd rather not have to stump up £65 for the TMC one and I can't get that earlier link to Coventry Aquatics to work

Does anyone know of any cheap dimming control?


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## JohnC

It might be better/cheaper to hang it from higher above the tank.

Best Regards,
John


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## rebus

The controllers come up quite often on E-Bay second hand. That's where i got mine from, from memory i think i paid £36 + P+P  might be worth keeping an eye on the used Aquaray listings.

Stu.


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## Eboeagles

Thanks guys, will see when it comes - may just DIY something to hang it from if I need to... But saved search on ebay is go!


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## pepedopolous

I too have taken the jump into the brave new world of LED lighting- thanks to a tax rebate!  I've bought the MiniLED 400 light tile, Aquaray controller and the *wrong* Mountaray bracket! 

I bought the Mountaray double pack as it was the only one in stock, however, it doesn't come with the necessary equipment to attach the light tile (should have better RTFM!)  So the light's just sitting on the cover glass for now. Despite this, the spread and penetration seem OK at 50% power (I have a 38*38*43 Dennerle Nano Cube 60 litre).

As has been said before, the shimmer is 'nuts'! I've had to use an extension so my filter outlet (JBL fishtail) is further down from the water surface. Now it's much better- I'm not getting a headache any more and I think it will pass 'the girlfriend test'


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## si-man

Yeah the shimmer at first kept giving me a headache. Fine now though.


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## pepedopolous

The light is appreciably different with much more shadow and clarity (I think). I like it. Even the my tiny dwarf corys have shadows, which show down through the first few centimetres of substrate. Also the light 'spills' much less above and around the tank.

I wonder if anyone else is bothering like me to have the light at 1% rather than completely off outside of the photoperiod.


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## Radik

So I got it today from Eboeagles. Thanks man! IT is OK but somehow XP-G CREE have better color for me eyes. These are Osram LED inside. 

Another thing is I might get alternative bracket, some bended aluminum as light is too much in front over 30cm cube with TMC bracket. Over 60L cube it will be in the middle.

I have not figured out yet if it is possible to slide tile slightly backward.

Also does not look any brighter comparing to my DIY 4x XP-G fixture so I think it can be run at full over 30cm cube. Will borrow PAR meter from Luis and post results here maybe next week.


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## Eboeagles

Radik said:
			
		

> So I got it today from Eboeagles. Thanks man!
> 
> Good good - always worry about sending things.
> 
> Radik - I didn't include the warranty card as I couldn't find it! I've obviously put it somewhere safe!!! I'll try & find it over the weekend and post it on.
> 
> A pleasure doing business with you!
> 
> I have pics of my new LED unit bought from Juri over my tank - I will post them later today / this evening when I'm back home.


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## Radik

Alright no prob. Will be nice to see your new LED.


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## Eboeagles

Its on my Shale Combe journal:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=19381

I'll give it a few weeks and try and do an in depth thread if I'm capable!


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