# Resurrection (EA900)



## shangman (17 Apr 2022)

Well it's Easter Sunday, so I think it's quite appropriate to resurrect my tank with a new journal, and soon a new scape. Welcome to the Nymph's Pond!





My last scape, <The Nymph's Spring> has sadly ended in tragedy with a nasty rare case of fishTB/mycobacterium, and I don't have the heart to set up a similar long term scape yet. I want to do something short and exciting where I can learn a lot. It was a big low for this to happen to my last scape, and I sort of need to start this one soon and do something great with it to cheer me up. Starting a journal now to record working it out and gathering inspo from the start.

The dimensions of the tank are 90cm w x 50cm d x 45cm h, it's approx 200L. I could go high-tech or lowtech, rainwater or tap. I could go high flow, or lower. Lots of optional variables.

So, this scape needs to be:

Different from what I've done before
Cheap
Short term (until Septemberish)
Have fast growing plants
Contain creatures that can go and live in my pond after
I had been planning to visit some garden centres to buy pond plants anyway, and then @Courtneybst suggested maybe this new scape could be a pond scape, so I can start quickly and cheaply! It's a fabulous idea - I can experiment with completely different plants from usual (who still follow similar rules) that will grow above and below the water (I LOVE emergents). They'll grow fast, they'll fade in the Autumn, fabulous.

*Fish*​
This selection is quite short, I don't want the hassle of giving away the fish at the end of this scape, thus I've decided to go with fish that will live happily in my above-ground pond in the garden for the rest of their lives including winters. It is quite a protected spot, and they will go out before the temp drops so they can get used to it. Please let me know if any of these won't be suitable, as always the fish have to be happy, and definitely let me know if you have any more good suggestions! I will only keep one, maybe two of these species in the tank.

*Roundtail paradise fish (Macropodus ocellatus) -* very beautiful and remind me of apistos, apparently hard to find and are bastards so probably would just keep a pair. I do like that they're the OG aquarium fish too. This is the only paradisefish species that can is ok in british weather 365.





*Medaka Ricefish (Oryzias latipes)* - lovely fish, some of which I already have, maybe too expensive to get a big load more though annoyingly.




*White Cloud Mountain Minnows  (Tanichthys albonubes) *- These are lovely colourful fish and would give the pond scape a classic scape vibe with a proper schooling fish and great colours. I'm surprised they can be kept outside tbh!




*Iridescent toothcarp (Aphanius mento* )- Very beautiful unusual killifish fish, and I have a good source to get some juveniles from. You can't go wrong with a blue fish.





*Rainbow Shiners (Notropis chrosomus)* - Stunning fish, I LOVE PINK, though I'm not sure if they will get too big/active for this tank. Any thoughts?




*3-spined Sticklebacks (Gasterosteus aculeatus)* - possible to collect, these guys have funny faces and interesting behaviour. They have the face of a smart fish like apistos which I like, with fascinating breeding behaviour.




*Common Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus)* - courtesy of my local stream, they can definitely survive and thrive. Not colourful, but still definitely pretty, and I find it quite fascinating to see what my native fish are like.






*Scape Style Options*​
Here are some solid options, in all of them I'm planning to lower the waterline a bit so I can have more emergent plants. Ideally in all I'm using London tap to fill the tank rather than rainwater as I used to. Honestly a break from that would be good for a while.

*British Biotope* - sticklebacks & minnows with British native water plants. Could submit it to a biotope competition, though tbh I don’t really care for following other people's arbitrary aesthetic rules, so would still do what I want with these ingredients once I got them and make some weird stream/pond/garden/wild hybrid.

*Classic scape mimic* - a pair of paradise fish with a group of WCMM or ricefish and using cold/pond plants similar to those we use in our tanks already, I think this could end up looking interestingly similar to a classic tropical fish scape, but all cold. The paradise fish aren’t entirely unlike apistos which is quite nice, and they are probably the prettiest fish on my list.

*Tropical plant wilderness* - a group of blue aphanius mento, and growing plants which looks distinctly tropical and wild with big leaves, colourful flowers and a great bog vibe.

*Ornamental pond* - take inspiration from a classic pond, and recreate that with the same materials and plants inside, and keep a group of white and orange ricefish in there. A fun play on a slice of nature.

*Stream tank* - Lots of flow, lots of pebbles, probably lots of BBA. Long wavy plants, with a stream edge at the back for emergents. WCMM, shiners, minnows, all sorts of fish would work here. A big shame there don't seem to be any appropriate gobies for this.

Would happily do any of these or mix them up. It’s now time for THE GREAT RESEARCHING where I scour the internet for lovely pictures to work out my idea better. Part of what I find interesting about this tank is that I don’t really know what it will look like, but I’d like a solid direction. Please do post interesting pics and links in this thread, if you guys have any ideas I’d love to hear them! I know lot sof you have lovely ponds and I'd love to see them too for inspo.

__________________________________​
Tomorrow I'll add in a list of plants I'm looking at, though it really is what's in the garden centers that will make the difference, I'm hoping to go to Wildwoods World of Water next week and see what lovely things they have!


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## Kerrycarp (17 Apr 2022)

Not a source of inspiration, just my chill out space!


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## Kerrycarp (17 Apr 2022)

Please excuse the knees! 😄😄😄


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## seedoubleyou (17 Apr 2022)

Looking forward to it Rosie.
I think the rainbow shiners will be ok in a 90cm tank providing lots of space is available. I imagine with what you’re looking to achieve, that won’t be the case.
Rice fish provide a lot  of variety if you find a few different colours. I think a proper hardy fish will be a breath of fresh air after you latest ordeal.

All that said, maybe set the tank up how you want it, then choose the fish to compliment it.


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## The Miniaturist (17 Apr 2022)

It's like starting a new sketchbook, there's something alluring about a pristine white page that makes you want to start drawing immediately!
All the ideas you've thought of sound really interesting especially with the idea of transferring livestock & plants outside later in the year.


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## shangman (18 Apr 2022)

Kerrycarp said:


> Not a source of inspiration, just my chill out space!
> View attachment 186904


Love it!! Particularly the bush on the left, I love this thick emergent vibes. And love the legs of course 😂 

Kinda tempted by a waterlily for the tank, but I think this time I'll miss it cos I have 2 lilies outside now and a little inside lily bowl lmao. And just last week a lotus in a bowl called "_Drunk on a Jade Tower_"!!! Lotus seem like very interesting particular plants, I'm looking forward to seeing how that one grows. Maybe will update it's progress in this journal too as a side project.



seedoubleyou said:


> Looking forward to it Rosie.
> I think the rainbow shiners will be ok in a 90cm tank providing lots of space is available. I imagine with what you’re looking to achieve, that won’t be the case.
> Rice fish provide a lot  of variety if you find a few different colours. I think a proper hardy fish will be a breath of fresh air after you latest ordeal.
> 
> All that said, maybe set the tank up how you want it, then choose the fish to compliment it.


👀👀👀 I may or may not be planning a thicket.... So I think you are probably right!! 

The hardiness of the ricefish is fantastic, I have bought 10 and I still have 10!!! And they have eggs often, although I've not seen any fry yet. Another thing to work out how to do. They are quite good in smaller tanks though, so I am tempted by other fish I wouldn't be able to keep in a nano or waterlily bowl.

I think you are right too, the scape and the fish doesn't have too much relationship and I think they'll be happy with whatever I make, other than flow which is easy to modify. As usually all the fish appeal to me too, maybe I will just have to go _Eeny, meeny, miny, moe _to pick! I am thinking of going to my lcoal stream and seeing what I can catch, to see if it is viable to cath them, and just keeping my eye out to see what's available - apparently the paradisefish ocellatus are hard to find.



The Miniaturist said:


> It's like starting a new sketchbook, there's something alluring about a pristine white page that makes you want to start drawing immediately!
> All the ideas you've thought of sound really interesting especially with the idea of transferring livestock & plants outside later in the year.


It is literally EXACTLY like that. Very soon I'll do a tiny doodle and it'll all be ruined  Actually I think later this week I will do some composition sketches to work out the options.

That artist/designer approach is how I do all my tanks really, I didn't notice I was doing it for ages (kinda considered aquariums my antidote to fashion and design burnout at first), but I guess the training comes out subconciously ! I am starting to think that this scape and the next few I do are more like purposeful artists experiments where I play about with the medium than before. I want to develop more of a style across aquarium genres, nabbing bits and pieces from all over. None of the official styles (contest/diorama, Dutch, Amano nature), blackwater, etc) have ever quite interested me as they all have at least one rule or two I have no interest in following. I think that's why UKAPS is great, because it's full of people just doing their own thing and pilfering from here and there to create something just right for them. Really just do more experiments, learn lots, have loads of fun.

 The pond thing is a nice way to get around having a temporary scape and getting to keep the fish, I would feel too guilty if I just gave fish away and causing them too much stress. I will have to take the fish out before it gets cold outside so they get acclimated properly to the temps, but otherwise should be ok!



Off to Maidenhead with a garden center to see what's about now, I heard they have some orangey ricefish, though things won't kick off until the visit to World of Water sometime soon. Later today will post the plants list with nice options, and start with some more inspiration piccies.

Please keep your pond pics coming, they are super inspirational!! @dw1305 I feel like you had/have a beautiful pond??? 🧐 Can I see?


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## Kerrycarp (18 Apr 2022)

Hi Rosie, the bush on the left is actually water mint which is rampant. Even the very large basket it's in is not enough to contain it however my puppies have eaten it all so I have to find something else to go in that area.


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## seedoubleyou (18 Apr 2022)

If you keep medaka already then I’d say maybe rule those out, 
If you plan on changing things so much perhaps consider going fishless?
That way if the Paradise Ocellatus does ever pop up, you can jump at the chance of owning a pair.


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## shangman (18 Apr 2022)

Kerrycarp said:


> Hi Rosie, the bush on the left is actually water mint which is rampant. Even the very large basket it's in is not enough to contain it however my puppies have eaten it all so I have to find something else to go in that area.


Aha! I think water mint could be a really nice plant to have, lovely smell and tbh I like the idea of rampant!! Apparently it would also work in my "biotope", looks like it grows p much everywhere. It'll go on the list  What are you planning on replacing it with?



seedoubleyou said:


> If you keep medaka already then I’d say maybe rule those out,


Yeah I think so too, medaka is off. 



seedoubleyou said:


> If you plan on changing things so much perhaps consider going fishless?
> That way if the Paradise Ocellatus does ever pop up, you can jump at the chance of owning a pair.


I'm too weak to go fishless lmao!! Will cycle it for around 6 weeks to make sure everything is growing well and then gotta stock. I love fish too much, and this tank isn't running for that long so I've gotta get them in quite fast to have a few months of enjoyment.

I think it's these 3 options - paradisefish & WCMM (will look around to see if any shops I go to stock the paradisefish), sticklebacks/minnows (need to go to my local stream and see if I can catch some or not), or the Iridescent toothcarp (which are very beautiful and come highly recommended). I am hoping to set the tank up within the next 2 weeks!! Honestly all 3 options sound completely awesome so I'm not sure which to go with. Anyone with experiences of any of these fish please do tell me your experiences of them are and what you would try.


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## Kerrycarp (18 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> What are you planning on replacing it with


I haven't completely made up my mind but I'm thinking along the lines of lobelia cardinalis, it is a lovely shot of colour and good for the bees!


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## dw1305 (18 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> Love it!! Particularly the bush on the left, I love this thick emergent vibes. And love the legs of course 😂
> 
> Kinda tempted by a waterlily for the tank, but I think this time I'll miss it cos I have 2 lilies outside now and a little inside lily bowl lmao. And just last week a lotus in a bowl called "_Drunk on a Jade Tower_"!!! Lotus seem like very interesting particular plants, I'm looking forward to seeing how that one grows. Maybe will update it's progress in this journal too as a side project.
> 
> ...


I'll get a photo when I'm home again.

Cheers Darrel


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## PARAGUAY (19 Apr 2022)

@shangman Sure you will have great new scape/s you had back luck that happens. A while back l was suffering losses and  decided to restart. A British native set up ,we don't see enough of these


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## shangman (19 Apr 2022)

Kerrycarp said:


> I haven't completely made up my mind but I'm thinking along the lines of lobelia cardinalis, it is a lovely shot of colour and good for the bees!


That's a great choice, beautiful colour! It's lovely to have plants with flowers too for you and the bees, I'm going to see if I can get some flowering plants for this tank too, though perhaps ones that aren't so tall.



dw1305 said:


> I'll get a photo when I'm home again.
> 
> Cheers Darrel


Fabulous! I saw you posted the photo I was thinking of in <@Courtneybst 's Pico Pond journal>. It's such a lovely pond, I love all the textures. Great inspiration for this tank honestly, I love the mix of everything together.

I will have to put _Ranunculus lingua _on my plant list too! Don't really mind if plants grow like mad, since the project is short they kinda have to.






PARAGUAY said:


> @shangman Sure you will have great new scape/s you had back luck that happens. A while back l was suffering losses and  decided to restart. A British native set up ,we don't see enough of these


It seems like big bad luck happens to almost everyone eventually, from one type of another. It is interesting to restart and allow myself to dream again.

I am leaning closer and closer to the British native setup, yesterday I went to a local "Country park" which is like a beautiful bit of countryside in South London, and it's full of streams and ponds, I spied a few small fish easily. There are some interesting plants too, including water starwort and iris. Even though my aquarium would be faithful with British plants & fish, I would like to try to make it a bit more aesthetic/garden-y than some biotopes. A lot of the native British plants are actually quite fabulous so I think it's definitely possible.


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## shangman (19 Apr 2022)

Ok BIG PLANT POST NUMBER 1

I'm still not completely sure whether to go for native or just with whatever I want. There are a lot of nice native plants, but there are is a lot of very interesting foliage outside the UK to explore. So here's a list of native plants, and later on I'll add a list of non-natives that I also like. Also start to post some aquarium inspirations too. Then I guess some stuff working out composition and how I'm going to structure the tank!

I hope others will use this as reference for your own native tanks/ponds, it's really interesting to try plants that aren't usually used, hopefully I discover great growers  from it.

*Native Plants with nice flowers & leaves*













Left to right:
Common arrowhead / _Sagittaria sagittifolia_
Water buttercup / _Ranunculus lingua_
Marsh marigold / _Caltha palustris_
Water violet / _Hottonia palustris_







_



_​
Bogbean / _Menyanthes trifoliata_
Greater water plantain / _Alisma plantago aquatica_
Lesser Water Plantain / _ Baldellia Ranunculoides_

*Native Floating*:













Floating Heart / _Nymphoides peltata
Water Soldier / Stratiotes Aloides 
Water crowfoot / Ranunculus aquatilis_
European Frogbit_ / Hydrocharis morsus-ranae_

*Native Stem & underwater plants:*










Mares Tail / _Hippuris Vulgaris_
Water mint / _Mentha hirsuta_
Water Starwort / _Callitriche stagnalis (I've seen this in the wild, it looks like rotala under water, and emergent like giant duckweed)_







Willow moss / _Fontinalis antipyretica_
Brooklime / Veronica beccabunga











Spiked water-milfoil / _Myriophyllum spicatum_
Curly pondweed / _Potamogeton crispus_
Common spike-rush / _Eleocharis palustris _(it amuses me to use eleocharis again tbh)


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## The Miniaturist (19 Apr 2022)

And how big is your tank....😳 😂
How about Mimulus guttatus, not strictly a native but been here since around 1812? Nice yellow flowers with spots, likes it's feet wet.


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## Conort2 (19 Apr 2022)

Loving this idea. I bodged a patio pond using some left over decking at the weekend so I will be following this intently and might steal a few of your plant choices!


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## shangman (19 Apr 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> And how big is your tank....😳 😂
> How about Mimulus guttatus, not strictly a native but been here since around 1812? Nice yellow flowers with spots, likes it's feet wet.


lmaooooo, I know!! I don't think I will use ALL the plants, but it's nice to write down all the options so it's easier to pick, and hopefully useful for others too 

Some of the plants will get too big, but what's an aquarium without a bit of trimming? 




_Mimulus guttatus _very nice, and I'm not against using plants that have decided they like to live here. I mean it is accurate to a modern landscape to including some invasive species technically!! 

Also it looks fabulous in this stream with these lovely lovely rocks.


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## shangman (19 Apr 2022)

Conort2 said:


> Loving this idea. I bodged a patio pond using some left over decking at the weekend so I will be following this intently and might steal a few of your plant choices!


Love it!! And please do!  At the same time that I'm setting up this tank I'm also adding plants to our own basic patio pond that we built last Autumn, so anything I can't squeeze in the tank but really like will be going in there.


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## KirstyF (19 Apr 2022)

Looks like a great concept! 😊 I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.

When ur done, can you nip round and re-do my pond for me. 😂


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## NatalieHurrell (19 Apr 2022)

I think your idea of going British biotope stylie with Sticklebacks would be brilliant.   They are such characterful looking fish!


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## shangman (20 Apr 2022)

KirstyF said:


> Looks like a great concept! 😊 I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.
> 
> When ur done, can you nip round and re-do my pond for me. 😂


😂 All part of the UKAPS service! Redoing a pond sounds really fun, make a journal for it and go for it!!



NatalieHurrell said:


> I think you're idea of going British biotope stylie with Sticklebacks would be brilliant.   They are such characterful looking fish!


TBH I think I will go with the sticklebacks, this morning I realised if I can't catch them, then I can buy them from CarpCo (which is basically TropCo) for £1.65 each, and it's easy to get to. These faces simply can't be resisted, they really look like ugly British apistos lmao AND I WANT THEM. I'm not sure how many to keep yet, I was thinking maybe 6 juveniles?





<At the bottom of this page on them> there is an amazing video of their breeding behaviour and it looks awesome, I think they are the fish to beat.

The only thing I'm not sure about is putting them with minnows, which apparently can get quite big???? I'd want at least 20 as they like to live in groups, but I don't want them to feel cramped. I guess will see how it goes. All the ones I see in streams are tiny.

There are also Spined and Stone Loaches available, although reading about their behaviour it might be another kuhli loach scenario on my hands...


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## NatalieHurrell (20 Apr 2022)

This makes interesting watching.  You might want some type of loose moss or similar.


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## seedoubleyou (20 Apr 2022)

@shangman ugly British Apistos 🤣


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## NatalieHurrell (20 Apr 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> @shangman ugly British Apistos 🤣


Yes, but those blue eyes 😍


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## seedoubleyou (20 Apr 2022)

NatalieHurrell said:


> Yes, but those blue eyes 😍


They have nothing on the blue eyes of a porcupine pufferfish


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## Wookii (20 Apr 2022)

Nice idea on the stickleback's @shangman, I love British native fish - I ran a cold water British native tank 20 years ago with some wild caught sticklebacks, minnows, gudgeon and baby roach.

The biggest problem I found was maintaining the appropriate temperatures with an indoor tank - you typically want to keep them 20 degrees or below which can be difficult indoors, particularly in the summer (I know last summer my tanks hit 26-27 degrees even with fans blasting across the surface). When I had that tank 20 years ago I looked into a chiller, but it was cost prohibitive at the time.


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## shangman (20 Apr 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> They have nothing on the blue eyes of a porcupine pufferfish


I'm not going marine for a little while yet, no temptations please! 😂  Saying that I don't know that I'll ever get such a large fish! Maybe if I win the lottery...


NatalieHurrell said:


> Yes, but those blue eyes 😍


They definitely make up for it all in character as well!! That video you posted is fascinating, will definitely make sure I have lots of crap in the tank for them to make squishy nests from.



Wookii said:


> Nice idea on the stickleback's @shangman, I love British native fish - I ran a cold water British native tank 20 years ago with some wild caught sticklebacks, minnows, gudgeon and baby roach.
> 
> The biggest problem I found was maintaining the appropriate temperatures with an indoor tank - you typically want to keep them 20 degrees or below which can be difficult indoors, particularly in the summer (I know last summer my tanks hit 26-27 degrees even with fans blasting across the surface). When I had that tank 20 years ago I looked into a chiller, but it was cost prohibitive at the time.


Hmmm yes I can see this being a problem, mine did that 2 years ago, though last year wasn't so bad. That tank was 1/3 the size of my tank though, does that help? 

I am too cheap for a cooler I think, I'm surprised that a pond would be much cooler than an aquarium though, would the fish really not be used to that temp sometimes? Or does climate change strike again?

Your tank sounds fabulous, what were the gudgeon like? Did your minnows get large?


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## seedoubleyou (20 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> I'm not going marine for a little while yet, no temptations please! 😂 Saying that I don't know that I'll ever get such a large fish! Maybe if I win the lottery...


Trust me, it’s an itch best left un-scratched, the prices are just getting crazier and crazier.

That said, a simple soft coral tank can be incredibly beautiful and compete with any high tech SPS tank if done right.

There’s certainly some cross over happening too with aquascaping and reef keeping


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## KirstyF (20 Apr 2022)

https://ukaps.org/forum/attachments/img-20220420-wa0000-jpg.187083/
		


Oh Wow, they are seriously cute ugly faces…..almost as cute as Hufsa’s Guinea Pig Khuli faces……and you might actually get to see them. 👍

They would be tough to beat! 😍


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## Hufsa (20 Apr 2022)

KirstyF said:


> …..almost as cute as Hufsa’s Guinea Pig Khuli faces……and you might actually get to see them. 👍


I dont know what you guys are talking about, I see mine all the time, they never skip a meal 😘
Maybe I have secret noodle charming powers 🐍


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## shangman (21 Apr 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Trust me, it’s an itch best left un-scratched, the prices are just getting crazier and crazier.
> 
> That said, a simple soft coral tank can be incredibly beautiful and compete with any high tech SPS tank if done right.
> 
> There’s certainly some cross over happening too with aquascaping and reef keeping


Yeah if/when I go salty, I would do majority macroalgae, with a few interesting inverts, a few weird small fish and maybe some soft corals or "easy/cheap" things like xenia, but only once I'd got the gist of things. 

I really like tanks like those from <Inland Reef>, <Buen's Aquariums>, <TigahBoy>, all that stuff. I love that macroalgae gives it more of a garden vibe, and the colours are so incredible. When I was a kid the true highlight of holidays for me was going rockpooling, so I guess that would be the vibe. Or mangrove lagoon. As always, so many beautiful options!



KirstyF said:


> https://ukaps.org/forum/attachments/img-20220420-wa0000-jpg.187083/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously!!  I think for now they are my top choice, unless I fall in love with the blue killis when I see them IRL, I think these sticklebacks are too funny not to try.



Hufsa said:


> I dont know what you guys are talking about, I see mine all the time, they never skip a meal 😘
> Maybe I have secret noodle charming powers 🐍


I'm always and forever jealous, the khulis were so beautiful but I NEVER saw them. Maybe for 2 seconds once a week. Idk why, I had a lot of them and did all the things they apparently like, but they weren't interested, alas. Clearly you have witchy noodle powers!!


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## The Miniaturist (21 Apr 2022)

Shhhh!🤫 @Hufsa's a noodle whisperer, uses special words & magic to make them come out for a photo shoot!🌟


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## Wookii (21 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> Hmmm yes I can see this being a problem, mine did that 2 years ago, though last year wasn't so bad. That tank was 1/3 the size of my tank though, does that help?



I don't think so - its the lights and the pump that end up injecting extra heat and pushing the water above ambient.



shangman said:


> I am too cheap for a cooler I think, I'm surprised that a pond would be much cooler than an aquarium though, would the fish really not be used to that temp sometimes? Or does climate change strike again?



I doubt British lakes and rivers get much above low twenties in the height of summer, but it could be wrong - they certainly feel cold to me when I go fishing in summer!



shangman said:


> Your tank sounds fabulous, what were the gudgeon like? Did your minnows get large?



It was a nice tank, lots of long Vallisneria to try and simulate streamer weed and the like if I remember rightly, and plenty of wood to simulate fallen branches - plant availability back then wasn't anything like it is now, neither was hardscape wood - Mopani only!

The gudgeon were great - I specifically caught smaller juvenile ones - they are a bottom feeder with barbels on the mouth much like Cory's.

The minnows weren't particularly large, maybe 50mm max including tails - they can get quite fat though as they are very greedy.

The Roach really struggled, as they are/were a very nervous fish. Despite my best attempts I couldn't keep the temps down low enough, and struggled with two bouts of white spot, lost 3-4 fish and called it a day and returned them to the Oxford Windrush where I caught them. Then I moved to full fat tropical and began experimenting with DIY yeast CO2, and that was the end of my cold water experiment.


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## seedoubleyou (21 Apr 2022)

Wookii said:


> I doubt British lakes and rivers get much above low twenties in the height of summer, but it could be wrong - they certainly feel cold to me when I go fishing in summer!


And that would only be surface temp, some lakes and quarries I swim in when visiting family in wales only get to 12 degrees at surface.


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## AlecF (21 Apr 2022)




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## mort (21 Apr 2022)

We had some stones loaches as a child and only saw them again when stripping the tank down.

Bigger tanks can get just as warm if the ambient temperature remains constant. They take longer to reach the highs but also cool down slower. It means you have more time to reduce the temperature before they reach the peak but they can get just as hot. If you have a pond outside already then at least you can move them out if they don't look happy and lots of coldwater changes might help.

I've always been tempted by sticklebacks because they are distant relatives of the seahorses and I see quite a few similarities with them, I've just never got round to keeping them. I do plan to build two large brick walled ponds where my garage is but not got round to it yet.


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## castle (21 Apr 2022)

Main issue is tank size, males can be a bit of a nightmare and will hound other males down (when breeding).  I think 90cm is a really good size for a group though.

We lost them when I was at school as the water got too hot, I repeated this process again in my early 20s with much disappointment. Fascinating to see the nests built, but I wouldn't go crazy with males, as they're quite territorial at breeding stage, and they do breed often and easy.  In summer I was adding a frozen bottle of water to the tank every day, but it just wasn't enough.  I raised hundreds of them, and can't wait to keep them again when I have the space.

@mort You'll never see them in a pond though


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## mort (21 Apr 2022)

castle said:


> @mort You'll never see them in a pond though



The idea I settled on was that I'd keep a small group in my unheated lean to over the winter and pop them back outside in the summer. It would be nice to do something in winter and enjoy other things in summer for a change. I may get round to it but lately I'm happy leaving nature to fill the void. In my pond, as the fish are now gone, I've got the mother of all daphnia blooms but not many fish left to feed them to. On the plus side the tadpoles that won't get eaten by the fish this year, should be the size of bullfrogs in no time😊


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## MirandaB (21 Apr 2022)

If anyone close to me wants Sticklebacks I have a lot I need to shift out of my tubs,it was a good year for them last year and they're breeding again already lol


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## shangman (22 Apr 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> Shhhh!🤫 @Hufsa's a noodle whisperer, uses special words & magic to make them come out for a photo shoot!🌟


Like the piped piper, but for noodles ~doodly doodly toodly dooooo~  

Honestly her fish pics are sooooooo funny! I lvoe them and the captions. Fish love drama lmao



Wookii said:


> I don't think so - its the lights and the pump that end up injecting extra heat and pushing the water above ambient.
> 
> I doubt British lakes and rivers get much above low twenties in the height of summer, but it could be wrong - they certainly feel cold to me when I go fishing in summer!
> 
> ...


Ahh of course, make sense. Well I'll give it a go and see what happens... got a few contingency plans if it gets too warm.

Baby gudgeons sound completely adorable!! I did see them and think ... ooooh, but then saw the size they get to. Good to know the minnows aren't too big, they sound a bit like pencils with their greediness which is great. Will say away from roach.

Is it ok to return wild fish back afterwards then? This is another option if I catch them myself, just wasn't sure about potentially spreading nasties about into the wild population. 




AlecF said:


> View attachment 187135



Fab! Gotta love the ricefish. How have you found breeding them, do they eat the fry? Mine have lots of eggs over the past month but I haven't seen any hatch yet. I want to be lazy and keep them all in one tank for a bit longer, but worried the fry will get eaten.



mort said:


> We had some stones loaches as a child and only saw them again when stripping the tank down.
> 
> Bigger tanks can get just as warm if the ambient temperature remains constant. They take longer to reach the highs but also cool down slower. It means you have more time to reduce the temperature before they reach the peak but they can get just as hot. If you have a pond outside already then at least you can move them out if they don't look happy and lots of coldwater changes might help.
> 
> I've always been tempted by sticklebacks because they are distant relatives of the seahorses and I see quite a few similarities with them, I've just never got round to keeping them. I do plan to build two large brick walled ponds where my garage is but not got round to it yet.


Yes this is totally true, if the fish aren't looking happy I can always pop them in the pond outside that will be their eventual home anyway. It will already have pond plants in, and loads of live food for them. And I do have a large freezer, so could easily pop some plastic bottles full of rainwater in my tank every day and help to cool things down before trying the pond.

They definitely have a bit of that cute seahorse face!! I'm looking forward to keeping them 



castle said:


> Main issue is tank size, males can be a bit of a nightmare and will hound other males down (when breeding).  I think 90cm is a really good size for a group though.
> 
> We lost them when I was at school as the water got too hot, I repeated this process again in my early 20s with much disappointment. Fascinating to see the nests built, but I wouldn't go crazy with males, as they're quite territorial at breeding stage, and they do breed often and easy.  In summer I was adding a frozen bottle of water to the tank every day, but it just wasn't enough.  I raised hundreds of them, and can't wait to keep them again when I have the space.
> 
> @mort You'll never see them in a pond though


I'm used to just a male and female apisto in my tank, so a small group still sounds great. I'm thinking (hopefully), 3 males and 5-6 females? What do you think of that? The tank should have lots of cover so I think that'll be ok. Got a contingency plan with my outdoor pond so hopefully can avoid another mass fish destruction event so soon! 



mort said:


> The idea I settled on was that I'd keep a small group in my unheated lean to over the winter and pop them back outside in the summer. It would be nice to do something in winter and enjoy other things in summer for a change. I may get round to it but lately I'm happy leaving nature to fill the void. In my pond, as the fish are now gone, I've got the mother of all daphnia blooms but not many fish left to feed them to. On the plus side the tadpoles that won't get eaten by the fish this year, should be the size of bullfrogs in no time😊


I'm hoping that eventually, if plans come together over the next year or so we will have a bigger back garden and be able to have a nature pond. As much as I love the fish, a natural pond with newts and frogs is hard to beat, and I like to try to support our native wildlife as much as possible!! These are the creatures that inspired me so much as a kid, at our allotment I demanded my dad build a pond when I was about 10, it's still going and is FULL of newts. Love it when the daphnia blooms and the newts ar really fat and lazy at the surface from gorging. 



MirandaB said:


> If anyone close to me wants Sticklebacks I have a lot I need to shift out of my tubs,it was a good year for them last year and they're breeding again already lol


Alas, it's a bit far for me but I hope some people take you up on it!! Would love to hear more about your tubs, it seems like a really interesting side of the hobby that's not often talked about.


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## shangman (22 Apr 2022)

So it appears that I'll be going to Wildwoods World of Water next Thursday if all goes well, where I'll pick up my first lot of plants (hopefully most of them), some soil and perhaps some hardscape. So I guess I should start planning what it'll look like!!

Will post some sketches this weekend, along with some other plants and inspo and stuff like that. Still not sure what it'll look like, but I guess we'll wait and see! Maybe I'll be making some giant pond-style wabi kusas to hang on the back/sides perhaps.


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## Wookii (22 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> Is it ok to return wild fish back afterwards then? This is another option if I catch them myself, just wasn't sure about potentially spreading nasties about into the wild population.


Well I caught all the fish from the same place, put them in the tank, and then returned them back to the same place a bit bigger and fatter than when I got them. I can’t imagine there is any scope for any new nasties to be acquired.

If you got stock from different sources, that could be more of an issue I guess.


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## MirandaB (22 Apr 2022)

Technically fish shouldn't be returned to the wild after being kept in a tank because there is still a slight risk of them being exposed to pathogens they wouldn't normally be in contact with.
One thing to be careful of in taking Sticklebacks from the wild is that they're not infected with Glugea anomola,it's really common in wild populations and I can't honestly say I've seen any out in the wild that weren't showing signs of it.


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## shangman (23 Apr 2022)

MirandaB said:


> Technically fish shouldn't be returned to the wild after being kept in a tank because there is still a slight risk of them being exposed to pathogens they wouldn't normally be in contact with.
> One thing to be careful of in taking Sticklebacks from the wild is that they're not infected with Gluglea anomola,it's really common in wild populations and I can't honestly say I've seen any out in the wild that weren't showing signs of it.


Oh Christ not another bloody disease!! I definitely would like to avoid that. I will buy the sticklebacks, but minnows don't seem available anywhere, they are vvv plentiful in my local stream though! I feel like mixing the wild minnows with sticklebacks could be a problem , even if they always live in my pond. What do you think, any minnow diseases to watch out for too? I can treat the tank with the many varied fish meds I have now when they go in, give them the royal treatment. I could also use my outdoor pond as a quarantine for the minnows first, catch and observe them before they go in the tank. 



Wookii said:


> Well I caught all the fish from the same place, put them in the tank, and then returned them back to the same place a bit bigger and fatter than when I got them. I can’t imagine there is any scope for any new nasties to be acquired.
> 
> If you got stock from different sources, that could be more of an issue I guess.


Makes sense, simples! You gave them a wonderful holiday.

TBH for me there's the lingering fear in the back of my mind that the days-long bleaching and insanely thorough tanking & equipment clean wasn't enough (which is probs mad, the tank for over 2 days had 2 litres of 5% bleach in the water with everything on). It scares me to think I could spread the MB around in the wild, so won't try it this time. If this pond tank works nicely I think I will try ti again in the future and then could try it your way, which is very nice.


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## shangman (23 Apr 2022)

Two more native plants to add to the list:








Butterbur / _Petasites hybridus _(probably too big, but v cool)
Floating water-plantain / _Luronium natans_


Now here's a list of non-native plants I'm very tempted by! Just to muddy the waters a bit  Some are probs too big, I got all the plants here from <The Encyclopedia of Water Plants >. There are loads more nice ones tbh, it's worth having a look!

*Marginals*














Miniature Bullrush / _Typha minima_ 
Star Grass / _Rhynchospora colorata_
Tufted Loosestrife / _Lysimachia thyrsiflora
Swamp Loosestrife / Decodon verticillatus_














American water-willow / _Justicia americana_
Water Spinach / _Ipomoea aquatica_
Carolina Spiderlily / _Hymenocallis crassifolia  _(VERY TEMPTING)
Rain Lily / _Zephyranthes sp._







Japanese Blood Grass_ /  Imperata Red Baron_
European Waterclover / _Marsilea quadrifolia_
*Floating*







Water Mimosa / _Neptunia aquatica _- seems slightly different from A_eschynomene fluitans_, slightly different structure that grows more out of the water and with a different flower 
Floating Heart /_Persicaria amphibia (formerly known as Polygonum sp.)_

*Stem & underwater plants*



Redstem parrotsfeather / _Myriophorum Brasiliensis_


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## The Miniaturist (23 Apr 2022)

Miniature bulrush & Carolina spider lily get my vote for non-native plants!


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## Hufsa (23 Apr 2022)

In other news: Mysterious local woman buys 10 000 square kilometres of land outside London. When asked about the purchase states that she "is making a pond"


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## AlecF (23 Apr 2022)

I haven't quite figured out how the Medaka lay. I ended up, mysteriously, with 5 new babies in a small tank, and I can only guess they came with floating plants I must have moved from the planter I have them in. No other way )head-scratch). The first time I had babies I actually siphoned them up in a cleaning session and somehow they ended up in the other tank. In other words, I am clueless, but they must be breeding a lot and eating the fry. And I am accidentally onto my second brood by removing them. I am going to start moving the floating weeds over from their planter to the small tank occasionally. I wish I had more of a clue! The babies are charming and VERY easy to raise.


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## Hufsa (23 Apr 2022)

AlecF said:


> I haven't quite figured out how the Medaka lay.


Arent these the ones that carry the eggs in their fins?


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## shangman (23 Apr 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> Miniature bulrush & Carolina spider lily get my vote for non-native plants!


100% with you! The bulrush I'm definitely getting, and if it doesn't fit in this tank it'll go in one of my nanos cos it's soooo cute. I think all of my nanos could do with some different emergent plants to spruce them up a bit 

I'm thinking maybe the spiderlily could be the "star" of the tank in the emergent section, and if I cropped it for any biotope competition well... they'd be none the wiser 

As much as biotope is cool, it's also nice to mix it up a bit too. I have a thing where if I get presented a list of rules to follow in design I just can't help but want to break them and do something a bit different!! I'm an anti-purist lol. No problems doing it in other aspects of life, but art.... I do what I want lmao. Well, I try to do what I want and then nature takes over and shows me the way it's gonna go, which is never quite what I intended lmao in both good and bad ways.



Hufsa said:


> In other news: Mysterious local woman buys 10 000 square kilometres of land outside London. When asked about the purchase states that she "is making a pond"


I cackled at this lmaoooooo... if I won the lottery it would 100% happen!! 😂

I won't use ALL of the plants in the lists I posted ... Just laying out my options so I can choose well at the pond garden center later this week. Will definitely use... A few of them though. 



AlecF said:


> I haven't quite figured out how the Medaka lay. I ended up, mysteriously, with 5 new babies in a small tank, and I can only guess they came with floating plants I must have moved from the planter I have them in. No other way )head-scratch). The first time I had babies I actually siphoned them up in a cleaning session and somehow they ended up in the other tank. In other words, I am clueless, but they must be breeding a lot and eating the fry. And I am accidentally onto my second brood by removing them. I am going to start moving the floating weeds over from their planter to the small tank occasionally. I wish I had more of a clue! The babies are charming and VERY easy to raise.


You can only view them from above right? Interestingly I can see this part of breeding in my tank from the side, in the morning  females often have 2-6 eggs stuck to them which are completely transparent and hard to see. In the afternoon/night they swim against plants to deposit them and they disappear. I was cleaning out some plants a few days ago in there and had to inspect it all, just plants had no eggs but the moss had quite a few! Not seen fry yet tho.


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## plantnoobdude (23 Apr 2022)

AlecF said:


> I haven't quite figured out how the Medaka lay. I ended up, mysteriously, with 5 new babies in a small tank, and I can only guess they came with floating plants I must have moved from the planter I have them in. No other way )head-scratch). The first time I had babies I actually siphoned them up in a cleaning session and somehow they ended up in the other tank. In other words, I am clueless, but they must be breeding a lot and eating the fry. And I am accidentally onto my second brood by removing them. I am going to start moving the floating weeds over from their planter to the small tank occasionally. I wish I had more of a clue! The babies are charming and VERY easy to raise.


medaka carry eggs in their fins and then deposit them in floating plant roots/fine plant leaves. I used to keep them in tubs with some water hyacinth and akadama soil! good fun and very low maintenance.

and the hippuris vulgaris leaves are absolutely gorgeous submerged aswell. apparently hard to grow underwater but I wanna try some soon.
kind of like a poor mans native pantanal!
https ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxl5EW3wvmk
(deliberate space after https to avoid massive link)


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## Wookii (26 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> what were the gudgeon like?



By sheer coincidence I just found the 2022 Biotope Aquarium contest results are now live (some amazing tanks this year):






						BIOTOPE AQUARIUM DESIGN CONTEST 2022 – Biotope Aquarium
					






					biotope-aquarium.info
				




. . . and which fish features in the 1st place winning tank? . . . Gobio Gobio!






						The bank of the Solinka river, near Cisna town. Bieszczady mountains. Poland – Biotope Aquarium
					






					biotope-aquarium.info
				








EDIT: And look what is second place; Gasterosteus aculeatus:






						Sources of the Krężniczanka river near Bełżyce, Poland – Biotope Aquarium
					






					biotope-aquarium.info
				








EDIT 2:

They also feature in the 5th and 6th place winners too (a lot of Polish entries!):


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## shangman (26 Apr 2022)

Wookii said:


> By sheer coincidence I just found the 2022 Biotope Aquarium contest results are now live (some amazing tanks this year):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



oooooooooh

That 5th place one is STUNNING!!! Big thank you for the inspiration!!! I have been thinking I will need a grass in this tank, I'll nab one of these. I wonder if I will come across any gobio gobio in my local streams, they are lovely!

Definitely will be having a bit of a lowered waterline on this tank, I really love the balance between the underwater and emergent growth, obviously vv important in a pond.

Working out the basic structure of the tank seems to me to be the most difficult thing, as generally ponds have nice banks of quite solid clay, and I want to recreate that. Today I've got to go and buy some chicken wire and hessian to see if I can make up a nice base shape to work as hardscape. I'm currently thinking of this tank as basically a giant wabi kusa and growing all my plants on 2 wabi kusa "islands", so it's pretty much just soil (probably a few bags of lava rock for volume), contained within a sculptural shape. May a few stones or gravel at the bottom. I will be getting my plants on Thursday, so trying to spend any extra time over the next two days problem solving that. If I can't get any wire covered in plastic, I'll yacht varnish the wire before it goes in the tank, and probably glue soil to it at the same time so it's less... wirey. Hopefully I will work out a good way of doing it and can report back.


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## Courtneybst (26 Apr 2022)

@Wookii  That 5th place one is _chef's kiss_


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## Wookii (26 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> oooooooooh
> 
> That 5th place one is STUNNING!!! Big thank you for the inspiration!!! I have been thinking I will need a grass in this tank, I'll nab one of these. I wonder if I will come across any gobio gobio in my local streams, they are lovely!
> 
> ...



Intrigued to see how you get on. I went through the same brainstorming some time back:









						How to create a muddied river bank . . .
					

Bit of a random one this, but I've recently been admiring some amazing looking biotope tanks, and I'm wondering how they go about creating a full height vertical 'bank' against an aquarium pane. Some examples that I posted in another thread recently:     I would guess at maybe something like...



					www.ukaps.org
				




I never got around to trying some techniques out, but the plan was basically to construct if from brown lava rock set together with expanding foam, then carved and painted with brown coloured resin (you can see some of the techniques on Serpa Designs YouTube channel) and covered with lava rock powder/grains and covered in roots. I have always wondered how the biotope guys create all that 'mulm' for the aged lake bed look, as they've obviously not waited for 3 years for it to form naturally.


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## Wookii (26 Apr 2022)

Courtneybst said:


> @Wookii  That 5th place one is _chef's kiss_



Yeah, nice isn't it - I've always liked those half filled tanks with equal emergent growth, I'm going to have to try it one day!


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## shangman (29 Apr 2022)

Wookii said:


> Intrigued to see how you get on. I went through the same brainstorming some time back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yesss, I was reading this thread a few days ago after searching on UKAPS for some making inspo. It's a really interesting technique, but then I want the bank to have soil in that the plants can get to do I'm trying a different technique. 

I've made a plastic-coated chicken wire structure, which I'm going to print with yacht varnish a few times to make sure it rust/react in the water. Then under that I'll add 2 layers of hessian scrim, and then add the soil. I have some finer plastic mesh if I need it with the soil. I'll post a picture of the structure once I've added the hessian. Eventually my theory is that the roots of the plants will also be holding the soil in if the hessian rots, but as the tank front be up for longer than 6 months I think it'll be fine anyway. 

It's basically a giant wabi kusa, the structures are open at the top for emergent plants, and on the sides I'll put plants in the small holes to grow out from there. Quite experimental, but I couldn't work out another way to make it how I wanted! 

The mulm is a very good question, I'll see if I can harass some friendly biotype people on Instagram and find out!


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## Wookii (29 Apr 2022)

shangman said:


> I've made a plastic-coated chicken wire structure


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## shangman (29 Apr 2022)

Wookii said:


>



Oh all right 😂 I was gonna get the camera out and take a better pic, but here you go...

I present to you my pond islands!


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## Wookii (29 Apr 2022)

Hey, that's really good! I'm interested to see how you get on holding the soil in place on such vertical sides without it just turning to slurry and falling to the base of the tank. Perhaps you could bind it with some coconut fibres or similar?


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## Garuf (29 Apr 2022)

I think personally, I’d wrap it with nylon mesh and call it a day. Having used hessian to make “real” wabi kusa balls, it didn’t last that long before it started shedding fibre all over the place. It was pretty much a sad rotten mess within 6 months.


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## shangman (29 Apr 2022)

Wookii said:


> Hey, that's really good! I'm interested to see how you get on holding the soil in place on such vertical sides without it just turning to slurry and falling to the base of the tank. Perhaps you could bind it with some coconut fibres or similar?


Thanks!! I can't believe I managed to get such smooth curves tbh, I thought it would come out a lot more wonky lol. I think it makes a nice contrast to the plants which will hopefully be super wild.

Yeah it might need a bit of a mix for the soil. Also not all of it will be soil, there will be some bags of fine lava rock and maybe a few bigger bits of lava rock in there too. I was thinking on the sides I would add some fine plastic mesh under the hessian as that's the vulnerable bit for soil falling out. The hessian is really usual for tucking in stem plants like I would in a wabi kusa. In my other lowtechs I've had great success with just shoving stems in crevices where they grow out and up towards the light like this.


Garuf said:


> I think personally, I’d wrap it with nylon mesh and call it a day. Having used hessian to make “real” wabi kusa balls, it didn’t last that long before it started shedding fibre all over the place. It was pretty much a sad rotten mess within 6 months.


Oh yes there will be some fine plastic mesh involved in the vertical bits, found some perfect stuff in the shed yesterday. The thing about just nylon mesh is it makes it harder to have crevices to put plants into it, the hessian makes planting into it easier. I'm not really worried about it rotting as the tank will only be up for a few months.


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## shangman (6 May 2022)

Yesterday I went with @Courtneybst to the local country park for a day of finding pond inspiration and catching sticklebacks, it was fabulous a really beautiful day, proper luscious spring. Definitely going back for a picnic soon, and will bring my fancy camera next too cos it really deserves pretty picsssss. I took some short videos but they don't wanna play 

There were also a lot of caddisfly larvae in the streams which were very interesting to watch, I thought I might keep some of those too, super fascinating creatures. <Sort of related, look at this artist who "collaborates" with caddisfly larvae to make beautiful jewellery pieces>, I've loved that for a long time. 

I didn't keep the sticklebacks we caught, but it was great to see them in the wild and see them properly up close - I'm even more sure that they're going to be the fish in this tank. The big one we caught was so beautiful and CUTE, and a really good size... not too big, not too small. I'm setting the tank up properly this weekend, looking forward to see it coming together! I'm hoping to put the sticklebacks in in about a month if all goes well. 


































​


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## Hufsa (6 May 2022)

Beautiful pics and what an ugly cutie! Utie? Cugltie? Ugutie 
I hope you are doing well 😘


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## seedoubleyou (6 May 2022)

crazy how similar they look to  colomesus asellus (South American Pufferfish)


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## plantnoobdude (6 May 2022)

what's the legal situation on collecting wild stickleback? @shangman 
they look gorgeous.


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## John q (6 May 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> what's the legal situation on collecting wild stickleback?


Technically you'd  need a fishing rod licence to fish on any inland waterway in England. The removal of certain fish are limited by numbers but don't think sticklebacks are covered under this quota. 
I think if you were caught trapping a few sticklebacks it would be a hard nosed balif that would try and follow through with prosecution.


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## shangman (7 May 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> what's the legal situation on collecting wild stickleback? @shangman
> they look gorgeous.


They are very gorgeous!! So nice to have such an interesting fish about.

Freshwater rod fishing rules

From the above, the gist send to be that they don't care if you catch small fish like Sticklebacks for some reason. They care about bigger fish that you might catch with a rod, so it's legal to catch Sticklebacks on public land. Tbh the reason I didn't take the babies (v tempting) is in case they had disease cos I want to avoid experiencing another nasty thing so quick. I will be treating for various worms any way just in case.



Hufsa said:


> Beautiful pics and what an ugly cutie! Utie? Cugltie? Ugutie
> I hope you are doing well 😘


Definitely an ugly cutie, but I think further on the cute side than ugly!! He also had a subtle irridescence about him. I'm looking forward to seeing how they colour up in my tank, in another pond there were more adults and I'm sure I saw a glint of bright blue from one. 

I'm doing good  Feeling much more recovered from all the horrors of March and April. Looking forward to getting this tank together! I miss having fish in this tank, it needs to be something I can look at again.



seedoubleyou said:


> crazy how similar they look to  colomesus asellus (South American Pufferfish)
> View attachment 188064


Damn that is a very cute puffer!! They are similar, I think it's that slightly upturned mouth with the big eyes. I definitely see the seahorse vibes from the sticklebacks too.


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## Courtneybst (7 May 2022)

It was a great day and the first time this year I've really felt the sun beating down on my back. Roll on summer! The water the fish were in was quite shallow and not so cold, although @shangman  might feel differently!

I did put a couple of the fry into one of my outdoor ponds with lots of plant cover. It'll be interesting to see how they fare and develop.

I was really intrigued by what the water parameters might be where we found them. I stupidly forgot all about that when I got home and poured most of the water away. Luckily there was just enough to get 4 tests in. I didn't bother testing ammonia and nitrite as I assumed the water is well and truly cycled 😅 I didn't have enough water anyway. 

Now, I know hobbyist test kits can be off but this test is brand new and seems to align with control fluids. It was *nothing* like I was expecting...
TDS ~500 (It was swinging from 480 to 600 but most often settled at 500).
pH - 8
GH - 43 (thanks, that's my test fluid drained 🙃)
KH - 29 (also, thanks.)
NO3 - 20

For some reason I expected the water to be really similar to my collected rainwater, with KH 3 and GH 3, but it was anything but. I suppose in these water ways there's a lot of things the water passes over to pick up minerals and a crap ton of things dissolving into the water, including human trash. Even if the results are not pinpoint accurate, the sticklebacks are living in some hardcore water compared to our aquariums!


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

Courtneybst said:


> It was a great day and the first time this year I've really felt the sun beating down on my back. Roll on summer! The water the fish were in was quite shallow and not so cold, although @shangman  might feel differently!
> 
> I did put a couple of the fry into one of my outdoor ponds with lots of plant cover. It'll be interesting to see how they fare and develop.
> 
> ...


Absolutely creased at those test results lmaoooooooo, maybe British fish aren't as colourful and pretty as the tropicals, but they are HARDCORE. They'll be living in the lap of luxury with 50% waterchanges, pure tap doesn't sound so bad now.

Hope those lil fry do well too!!!


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

​Well I planted it up yesterday, and as you can see it's ABSOLUTELY ... cloudy lmao. I guess we'll see when it finally clears up! I've used this pond soil/mud as substrate as it was a nice colour and texture, its a mix of soil with lots of sand and some clay in. Might've been a very bad idea, but I guess we'll find out! This morning it's a bit clearer and definitely promising, though I do need more plants asap. 




I love emergents so obviously there's LOADS here. The grass _isJuncus ensifolius _which wasn't on my previous lists, but has nice neat growth, mixed with _Baldellia ranunculoides_ (which opened a flower this morning omg), and _Menyanthes trifoliata "Bogbean" _which will probably get massive! There's also _Marsilea quadrifolia_, _Hippuris vulgaris, Callitriche stagnalis (_Starwort_), Myriophyllum brasiliensis _and _Hottonia palustris. _








This is _Alisma pariflorum_, which is the American version of a British native I was going to get. I went for this one because it looks uncannily like _Echinodorus Opacus Iguazu 2009_ which i've lusted after before but costs £100 if you can get it. This one was £6.50 so p good alternative, and it has nice flowers too.





Already there are a selection of weird creatues in there. Here is a leech having an existential crisis.




And here is a mysterious larvae wriggling about. I'm not sure what it is, there are quite a lot of them in there, can't tell if they're aquatic or not, if they're dying or just confused.


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## The Miniaturist (8 May 2022)

That's a great reveal, everyone's on tenterhooks now because you can't _ quite_ see things clearly!


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## seedoubleyou (8 May 2022)

shangman said:


> its a mix of soil with lots of sand and some clay in. Might've been a very bad idea, but I guess we'll find out!


Hopefully this doesn’t cause you never ending algae issues 😅.
Also, have something on hand to kill any little bugs that’s start to take flight.
I made a little terrarium once using moss collected from a local lake area, few days in I had midges everywhere.

Eagerly waiting for that water to clear up too.


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## plantnoobdude (8 May 2022)

shangman said:


> This is _Alisma pariflorum_, which is the American version of a British native I was going to get. I went for this one because it looks uncannily like _Echinodorus Opacus Iguazu 2009_ which i've lusted after before but costs £100 if you can get it. This one was £6.50 so p good alternative, and it has nice flowers too.











						Rare Echinodurus sp. ‘Igazu 2009’ Amazon Sword Live Green Aquarium Plant  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rare Echinodurus sp. ‘Igazu 2009’ Amazon Sword Live Green Aquarium Plant at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



					www.ebay.co.uk
				



 50 pounds for a small plantlet.


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> That's a great reveal, everyone's on tenterhooks now because you can't _ quite_ see things clearly!


Let's hope it nots rubbish under there! 😅 I planted it all dry so even I don't really know what it looks like, all the stem plants were v droopy. Definitely need some more plants too, but that's always the case 👀 I want the whole structure I built to be covered like a proper wabi kusa, which is kinda difficult as I'm going for all pond plants, there aren't really any carpeting plants (that I can tell) that work as good cover. 



seedoubleyou said:


> Hopefully this doesn’t cause you never ending algae issues 😅.
> Also, have something on hand to kill any little bugs that’s start to take flight.
> I made a little terrarium once using moss collected from a local lake area, few days in I had midges everywhere.
> 
> Eagerly waiting for that water to clear up too.


TBH, as it's a pond I accept some algae. Especially as I want the plants to grow well, so they're on 100%. I'm going to add CO2 for the lols, just to see what happens, not sure how that will affect the algae!!

I've always got a bit of algaefix on hand too 👀 In case things get bad in the first few weeks before any nice creatures go on. 



plantnoobdude said:


> Rare Echinodurus sp. ‘Igazu 2009’ Amazon Sword Live Green Aquarium Plant  | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rare Echinodurus sp. ‘Igazu 2009’ Amazon Sword Live Green Aquarium Plant at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
> ...


ooooooooooooooohhhhhh, I haven't actually seen it for sale in the UK before!! Well fingers crossed they still sell them in 2 years when I set up a nice big tropical tank again. I hope someone buys these and shows them off in their journal! Such a beautiful plant. I suppose I could rescape my nano tank to just have that in the middle... 👀👀👀


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## Laoshan (8 May 2022)

Courtneybst said:


> TDS ~500 (It was swinging from 480 to 600 but most often settled at 500).
> pH - 8
> GH - 43 (thanks, that's my test fluid drained 🙃)
> KH - 29 (also, thanks.)
> NO3 - 20



Nice to see some water quality field data. Interesting results. I believe most surface waters have a much higher TDS than rainwater due to the dissolution of minerals, the contributions of the substrate and groundwater system, and organic compounds produced by decaying plant matter. Exception would be for example an alpine lake fed by snowmelt. Your measured GH and KH values are very high to me! Could that be the influence of the chalk aquifer underlying the Thames basin? Depending on the exact location that could or could not be the case. Case you want to read more.

Pollution by agricultural or urban runoff also increase TDS. However a nitrate value of only 20 mg/l is not indicative of serious pollution. The WHO drinking water standard is 50 mg/l. Nitrate can easily reach 200 to 300 mg/l in canals close to farmland!

I bet those sticklebacks are perfectly happy in there. Apparently they can thrive in brackish or salty water as well, so a high TDS wouldn’t scare them really. RO or rainwater on the other hand would probably not be their cup of tea... 🙂.


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## Laoshan (8 May 2022)

shangman said:


> Well I planted it up yesterday, and as you can see it's ABSOLUTELY ... cloudy lmao. I guess we'll see when it finally clears up! I've used this pond soil/mud as substrate as it was a nice colour and texture, its a mix of soil with lots of sand and some clay in. Might've been a very bad idea, but I guess we'll find out! This morning it's a bit clearer and definitely promising, though I do need more plants asap.



Great work @shangman. Looking forward to the crystal clear result 👍


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

Laoshan said:


> Nice to see some water quality field data. Interesting results. I believe most surface waters have a much higher TDS than rainwater due to the dissolution of minerals, the contributions of the substrate and groundwater system, and organic compounds produced by decaying plant matter. Exception would be for example an alpine lake fed by snowmelt. Your measured GH and KH values are very high to me! Could that be the influence of the chalk aquifer underlying the Thames basin? Depending on the exact location that could or could not be the case. Case you want to read more.
> 
> Pollution by agricultural or urban runoff also increase TDS. However a nitrate value of only 20 mg/l is not indicative of serious pollution. The WHO drinking water standard is 50 mg/l. Nitrate can easily reach 200 to 300 mg/l in canals close to farmland!
> 
> I bet those sticklebacks are perfectly happy in there. Apparently they can thrive in brackish or salty water as well, so a high TDS wouldn’t scare them really. RO or rainwater on the other hand would probably not be their cup of tea... 🙂.


Great reading of those results! I think it is a flood zone and it's been left a wild park as it couldn't be safely built on. The water levels rise and fall a lot there over the year, sometimes ditches are dry, sometimes you'd be hard pressed to go anywhere without proper wellies it's so swelled up. 

Very pleased that the sticklebacks will be happy in tap, tbh the rainwater in a big tank at the top of the house was becoming a bit of a hassle. A bit for the nanos is fine, but more is quite an ordeal. 3 20L cartons a week from the allotment to house and up all the stairs 😂 will have to plan it all better for when I return to tropical!!



Laoshan said:


> Great work @shangman. Looking forward to the crystal clear result 👍


Thanks! Me too, it's cleared up a bit today, but not loads. Remembered that I forget I haven't yet replaced the filter foams 🙃 whoops! No wonder it isn't clearly very fast lmao, just ordered them and will do an extra waterchange tomorrow too to speed it up so I can show off to you all.


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## dw1305 (8 May 2022)

Hi all,


shangman said:


> I'm not sure what it is, there are quite a lot of them in there, can't tell if they're aquatic or not, if they're dying or just confused.


They are _Tipula (_Cranefly_)_ larvae. They can be terrestrial, or aquatic/semi-aquatic, dependent on species. We usually get <"_Tipula maxima_"> in the kick samples from the stream on campus and they can be pretty sizable. I don't think you can get an ID from a larvae.

cheers Darrel


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## Courtneybst (8 May 2022)

@shangman  Checked on the pond earlier today and the fry were swimming around. I might hatch some baby brine shrimp to make sure they've got some food.


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

Now I've planted the tank and I'm started to see the scape through the cloudiness, I'm feeling like I can really start to make more decisions about planting and what this scape will be. I've been throwing around all sorts of ideas but I'm not going to stick  with them all - I'm just not interested enough in the idea of all native biotope to stop myself buying lots of lovely plants from everywhere lmao, because I now think that some normal aquarium plants mixed in would look really good to add balance and fill in gaps. The front is also got nothing going on yet either which isn't right.

My basic structure was not right for an entirely pond plants/biotope tank, the shape is good but the surface of it needed to be entirely covered to look good, this is partly cos I just wanted to start it asap and be cheap with hardscape lmao. If I did it for biotope in mind, I would do exactly as @Wookii said earlier with a layer of glue and sand and roots and things over the top first. 

So I think this tank is more like a fantasy garden wabi kusa aquarium pond. I think the Sticklebacks would look great amongst some carpet plants and grasses and things that I just can't get with normal pond plants. But at the same time, I really love these pond plants and love that they're something different with great leaf shapes and flowers. Best of both worlds!! Off to shop... 👀

Also, I think I want to add cull cherry shrimp too? 👀  🤔



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> They are _Tipula (_Cranefly_)_ larvae. They can be terrestrial, or aquatic/semi-aquatic, dependent on species. We usually get <"_Tipula maxima_"> in the kick samples from the stream on campus and they can be pretty sizable. I don't think you can get an ID from a larvae.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Fabulous! I knew you'd know, thank you. 😊  They are very large, quite ugly. I think I will net most out and put in a pond bowl instead, there are quite a lot which is a bit unnerving 😅



Courtneybst said:


> @shangman  Checked on the pond earlier today and the fry were swimming around. I might hatch some baby brine shrimp to make sure they've got some food.


Huzzah! Sounds like a good idea, they are lil bebes, and then you could train them onto the flake too.


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## shangman (8 May 2022)

I'm also planning on going high tech cos... Well it's all set up, so why not? 😅


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## shangman (10 May 2022)

Thought I'd take another picture before I do a big waterchange to show you how it's looking atm... I'm feeling quite pleased already, especially with the left blob. Obviously a lot still needs to be planted, I don't want a full carpet, but I do want more plants around the base of the blobs and creeping out from there. The small bottom plants will be H_ydrocotyle verticiliata_ and _Lilaeopsis brasiliensis_. I'm also going to add some _Cyperus helferi_  here and there to mimic the grass at the top of the left blob. I think I also need some sort of pond grass for the righthand blob (the grass I got for the left one dies if it goes below 5cm of water annoyingly). The hottonia is doing a lot of heavy lifting, and I'm going to get more of that next week too. I think I need some small pebbles to add texture the bottom too. On the blobs themselves I'm adding a bit of monte carlo to hide some of the base structure.

I've read that _Ludwigia palustris_ is actually a native plant, so I'd like to add a bit of that. Anyone got any I can nab? I have some in other tanks, but wary in case those tanks have TB still tbh.

Will update in a day or two with a clearer tank! Just got the new filter sponges and will install them, then do a massive wc.


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## DeepMetropolis (10 May 2022)

Nice, this reminds me of those posters we had at elementary school of the fresh water underwater life, only thing missing is a pike.


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## shangman (13 May 2022)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Nice, this reminds me of those posters we had at elementary school of the fresh water underwater life, only thing missing is a pike.


I know exactly what you mean!! 😂 I had those on my bedroom wall as a kid, along with loads of ripped out wildlife pics from National Geographic. Maybe when it's done I'll try to make some posters with the photos inspired by that 😅


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## DeepMetropolis (13 May 2022)

shangman said:


> I know exactly what you mean!!  I had those on my bedroom wall as a kid, along with loads of ripped out wildlife pics from National Geographic. Maybe when it's done I'll try to make some posters with the photos inspired by that


I always loved those posters. As a kid I was always fascinated by the waterline and the secret world underneath. Maybe it's why I love riparium/paludarium style set ups you can get back in that moment and take a peak underneath.
Have an big amazone poster from Natgeo in my music studio that Ive got from my wife. Its always inspiring to look at.


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## Josh Saunders (13 May 2022)

looks great, following


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## Wookii (13 May 2022)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Nice, this reminds me of those posters we had at elementary school of the fresh water underwater life, only thing missing is a pike.



That would be an interesting addition!


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## killi69 (13 May 2022)

Really love this. And you have a great selection of plants in there. And SO MANY different types! Almost as many as I have in my ponds😂. Looking forward to seeing this when the water clears up. Have you thought of a 'water lilly' type plant?  I can give you some Nymphoides peltata to try out. Its leaves are really small compared to water lillies but same shape.


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## shangman (15 May 2022)

DeepMetropolis said:


> As a kid I was always fascinated by the waterline and the secret world underneath. Maybe it's why I love riparium/paludarium style set ups you can get back in that moment and take a peak underneath.
> Have an big amazone poster from Natgeo in my music studio that Ive got from my wife. Its always inspiring to look at.


Beautifully put, and I feel exactly the same. I would put my face right up to the pond or rock pools surface and stare in, hoping to catch a glimpse of something and hoping I could see something really interesting, see IN at the pond creatures lives. Creating that feeling again in my own aquariums is the biggest aim - how to maximise the delight!? A major reason why I chose to do a pond tank is my love of the riparium/waterline plants that grow above and below. I'm convinced that many fish love these plants the most too, and the habitat they create. Totally with you. 



Josh Saunders said:


> looks great, following


Thanks! 



killi69 said:


> Really love this. And you have a great selection of plants in there. And SO MANY different types! Almost as many as I have in my ponds😂. Looking forward to seeing this when the water clears up. Have you thought of a 'water lilly' type plant?  I can give you some Nymphoides peltata to try out. Its leaves are really small compared to water lillies but same shape.


Thank you!! I didn't use everything on my "what I like" list... It's maybe 11 species so far. I would like to expand that to about 25 though... I would love to try some _Nymphoides peltata, _yes please! Anything you have spare if love to try 👀 the plants in this tank are growing VERY fast, so even small bits are fab. I'll update this journal with more stuff tomorrow and Tuesday I think, it's crazy how fast things are growing. I'm so happy with the progress so far, it's actually working quite well. Hopefully it continues this way!


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## KirstyF (15 May 2022)

Wow, coming along isn’t it!! 

The immersed are looking great already and I reckon this is going to look fab when ur all done. 

It’s great to hear you so excited and clearly enjoying it too. 👍😊


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## shangman (24 May 2022)

Pond tank's doing well  Will do a bigger update later this week.



KirstyF said:


> Looks like a great concept! 😊 I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.
> 
> When ur done, can you nip round and re-do my pond for me. 😂


I'm enjoying it loads! Love this concept and have already been thinking of other nice versions. 

Pond-tank, yes. Actual pond? I think @killi69 is the one for that!



NatalieHurrell said:


> I think your idea of going British biotope stylie with Sticklebacks would be brilliant.   They are such characterful looking fish!


Thanks! I'm gonna be honest it looks NOTHING like a biotope, but it does look quite nice. Sort of wish I had a big school of ember tetras in there for the aesthetics, but the sticklebacks are a fascinating fish to keep. I accidentally acquired my first Stickleback on last Monday, and he's an odd little fellow, I'm intrigued to see what he's like in a bigger group!


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## The Miniaturist (24 May 2022)

It looks as though the murky water has cleared up a treat. Can't wait for the obligatory FTS!


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## killi69 (25 May 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> It looks as though the murky water has cleared up a treat. Can't wait for the obligatory FTS!


Yes! Agree, looking forward to that FTS of the tank in clear water👍🏼. Also really looking forward to seeing your sticklebacks in due course


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## shangman (26 May 2022)

WALL OF TEXT with your FULL TANK SHOT. Have done so much aquarium stuff lately, it's been fabulous. And exhausting! But I'm certainly not complaining! It's been a welcome distraction from job hunting, which is a form of torture lols

Last Monday I went to Wildwoods World of Water with @Courtneybst once again to pick up some more mud, stones and plants for this tank, and for my outdoor pond too, and my indoor pond bowl which needed some fancy rice fish (finally sourced some lovely ones!). I always really enjoy visiting, everyone there is super knowledgeable and we always end up having long chats about everything aquarium and pond. I also ended up picking up my first stickleback - Mr Stickle, who I spotted in their large river shrimp-filled feeder tank. We think he is a bycatch from an estuary while catching the shrimps, and he was all alone in there so I took him. He had to go in my outdoor waterlily pond bowl for a week while I prepared the big tank more, as it still had a low amount of ammonia, but after 2 100% waterchanges over a week and even more plants, it's now fine and he's in the big tank! Of course will not add more fish for a bit longer, and keeping up on big waterchanges so he is safe. He is very shy of the camera atm, although he does come to the front a lot when it isn't out. He's very fast and zooms about, constantly on the lookout for food and other fish, definitely a tiny predator. I've been feeding him live food as he doesn't seem to understand anything else yet, when I have some more I'll try to acclimate them to bug bites. I'm looking forward to adding some "friends" for him in the next few weeks, fascinated to see the dynamics! CarpCo now also sell minnows, I'm not sure if I should get both, but I would quite like to lmao.
























​Something I love about this pond tank is that it's not too expensive to set up - the pond mud was about £10 for a big bag ( I used 2 bags), the pebbles were £8 for a big bag and I've only used a little of it so far. Many of the pond plants I'm using are £2-3 a bunch, so I can get quite a few for not much, and the more expensive plants (around £8) are generally very big and established. I've really filled it up now, adding native _Ludwigia palustris_ in green and red varieties... and then also some _Ludwigia repens_ cos they looked similar and I like red lols. I added a large grass at the back left to see what would happen, annoyingly I've lost the name! Will have to go find it... There's also now the beginnings of a carpet, with _Hydrocotyle verticillata_, with _Hydrocotyle vulgaris_ (another native) and some lilaeopsis brasilensis (a classic pond plant and tbh just a plant I seem to put in all my tanks atm). Truly, if someone dangles a nice plant in front of me I cannot resist! Speaking of which, I also got 2 _Trapa natans_ horned nuts, one of which is already growing strong. Oh! And I added some monte carlo from Courtney here and there in areas where I wanted the shape to be seen more, but not see the base structure. This plant always died on me before, so we shall see.

I'm very fast and loose with the nativeness of this tank (it's about 70-30), but it's more important for me to have fun with it than make it a biotope. Honestly, it looks nothing like a pond or a biotope, it's definitely more wabi kusa vibes, it reminds me of flower arranging with my mum when I was a kid. I'm really enjoying thinking up kinda weird hybrid tanks like this! I visited @George Farmer on Weds with Courtney and we made a very fast scape that I'm actually really pleased with, I'm very happy to even have been asked! It really inspired me to think more about this hobby as an art practice and something I could try and merge with my design side of life. I've finally started going outside and living life more again and been telling a few artist friends about what I'm up to and many of them revealed that they're already watching aquarium and terrarium videos to relax, and are very up for making cool stuff together. It's really exciting, I hope I get to make many more fun tanks alone and in collaborations  I would love to introduce more artists and designers into the hobby, there is so much cool stuff that could be done, and great to spread the nature love. As much cool stuff as is already being done, I feel there is so much more untapped potential. The visit also made me REALLY want a better backlight to this tank than my quick DIY one, so will have to build that too. I think it would just really elevate the tank to that next level and make it fancy af.

The growth in this tank has been fantastic, with almost all the plants growing very well. The only plant that is uphappy is the _Hippuris vulgaris, _which just can't deal with the waterchanges. It grows great for a week and then has to start again and it doesn't like that, it needs consistant water level. A shame as it's very nice,  I will take it out and put it in my pond instead. The Hottonia is converting from the underwater form to the emergent form, I think because of the CO2 and is looking great. The starwort is doing the same, and has lovely lush leaves. I'm hoping I can grow a lot of this and have swaths of it as it's a lovely bright green that waves in the flow nicely. I haven't dosed any ferts yet... not sure if I should, and if I do when that should be! Nothing is looking very deficient yet which is great. This scape is such a difference in growth compared to the last scape where many plants dropped dead on me or hardly grew at all for months and months. On some plants I'm seeing 15cm a week! I think in a month or two it's going to be soooooo lush and fabulous. The difference compared to the last tank is why I'm so pleased with it already, not perfect yet of course, but on a nice tragectory. It also looks better irl, I need to get better at photography and staging to represent it properly.

I am at the diatoms stage of the setup now, but not worrying about it. Trying to be chill about things like this and letting it happen instead of being filled rwith rage and trying to buy my way out of it. It will pass 

On Saturday I visited the fabulous garden of @killi69, it was so lovely to meet such a likeminded creative and kind person, and I loved the way he described his garden and the design of it in a similar way to how we design aquariums!! Since starting this tank I have really begun to realise the enormous potential of merging knowledge, ideas, plants, etc from aquariums, ponds, gardens, everything together in one big fabulous pot and create hybrid nature spaces. @killi69 is already doing this in his garden and it's just beautiful, and it will jsut continue to get more beautiful each season and year. I can't wait to visit again in August when it will be even more luscious and flowering like mad! I probably should've taken some pictures, but I just enjoyed the chat and the vibes and staring into the ponds at all the different pondlife. I particularly loved to see the fish, they looked in such good condition, so natural and chill in their large pools (check out Courtney on Instagram to see some vids). Particularly beautiful to me were the fat black and blue male _Aphanius mento_, which look a bit like Pokemon with a big anime eye. Andre very kindly gave me and Courtney some fry of the Aphanius mento, which have gone in my pond that I had originally planned to put my sticklebacks in. It gave me an idea...

Last Spring, my dad found a lovely second hand tank of 100cm lx40cm dx30cm h online for rather cheap, so of course we couldn't resist. We imagined it in our living room as a fabulous  blackwater with emergent houseplants and rare fish, but my mum veto'd it. She is understandably nervous about my antics, as when I was a child my dad went mad with tropical pets in tanks and we ended up with way too many. Eventually I hope the tank will go in the house, but until then it's just been in the allotment shed. Then I realised... it would go perfectly in a lovely shelted spot in the garden by the (nice) shed and patio! This has been accepted by the family as a good spot, so I'm going to set it up as an outdoor pond aquarium for the Aphanius mento, and really get to see them in their full glory. There is electricity in the shed, so I might try to rig up a little pond pump or filter so it does get some flow/filtering. There would be no heater, and no light (unless it really needs it) we're hoping sunlight will be enough.

Andre also gave me some lovely plants for my current pond tank - _Mentha aquatica, Pilularia globulifera, Chara algae_ (looks like a stem plant), and _beautiful Potamogeton crispus_ which have all gone in and look great. The chara I'm particularly interested in, I'm not sure if it will survive but we'll give it a go!


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## Courtneybst (26 May 2022)

The pond tank is looking really good, as are the photos!


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## Wookii (26 May 2022)

shangman said:


> Something I love about this pond tank is that it's not too expensive to set up - the pond mud was about £10 for a big bag ( I used 2 bags)



The tank looks great Rosie. So what is this 'Pond Mud' product - do you have the brand/product name - it looks ideal for a biotope set-up - have you just used that 'neat' with no capping? I assume its not high in organics then?


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## killi69 (26 May 2022)

Thank you for the kind words Rose. Your tank is looking really good! So nice to see pond plants presented in this different way, so intermingled. I was also wondering whether this is maybe more a temperate tank than a pond tank? By pond tank, are you aiming to capture the essence of a still amd small body of water (as opposed to a river or lake) - which would not neccesarily have to be temperate. Or is it more about using temperate plants? Or maybe both??

In any case, I think the idea of an outdoor aquarium is super interesting as well. There are real health benefits for temperate and subtropical fish to be kept outside which makes them look so much better, and perhaps might even help stimulate their natural behaviour. It would be interesting to see to what extent an outdoor aquarium could capture some of that and help you observe the difference.

The Aphanius mentho would be a good choice as they can enjoy relative high temperatures and day v night temperature fluctuations also. Would be interesting to see how to overcome challenges to keep such a tank looking good (algae), with all that outside light, and light fluctuations.


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## mort (27 May 2022)

I love it. For me it's similar to Courtney's cool edible scape, being familiar but seemingly very different to the norm at the same time.


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## shangman (30 May 2022)

Courtneybst said:


> The pond tank is looking really good, as are the photos!


Thanks! The next thing I really want to work on is good photos, vids and staging tbh, wanna get it all looking it's absolute best. So annoying when it looks cool irl but doesn't quite translate.



Wookii said:


> The tank looks great Rosie. So what is this 'Pond Mud' product - do you have the brand/product name - it looks ideal for a biotope set-up - have you just used that 'neat' with no capping? I assume its not high in organics then?


Thanks! It's "Westland - Aquatic Planting & Potting Mix", just what they had on a big stand at WoW basically. I was originally planning to have the front substrate just be sand, and the pond soil hidden in the structure, but once I started adding it I thought looked nice so didn't bother, no cap. DANGEROUS LIVING. It feels like it's got a lot of clay and sand in it, and when I plant into the bottom it does kick up a lot of stuff. I will keep reporting on how annoying or not it is. When I did my 2 main planting sessions, I did 100% waterchanges afterwards to get rid of the stuff in the water, but if you're just doing a little it's fine and the filter gets rid of it quickly. I have no idea if it's high in organics tbh, or if it's longer term a terrible idea, but I thought I'd try it and see what happens, as you said it does look really nicely natural.



killi69 said:


> Thank you for the kind words Rose. Your tank is looking really good! So nice to see pond plants presented in this different way, so intermingled. I was also wondering whether this is maybe more a temperate tank than a pond tank? By pond tank, are you aiming to capture the essence of a still amd small body of water (as opposed to a river or lake) - which would not neccesarily have to be temperate. Or is it more about using temperate plants? Or maybe both??
> 
> In any case, I think the idea of an outdoor aquarium is super interesting as well. There are real health benefits for temperate and subtropical fish to be kept outside which makes them look so much better, and perhaps might even help stimulate their natural behaviour. It would be interesting to see to what extent an outdoor aquarium could capture some of that and help you observe the difference.
> 
> The Aphanius mentho would be a good choice as they can enjoy relative high temperatures and day v night temperature fluctuations also. Would be interesting to see how to overcome challenges to keep such a tank looking good (algae), with all that outside light, and light fluctuations.


Thank you!! Pond tank was so named because the plants in it are mostly pond plants, and it just is a name stuck in my head. I think it is a temperate rather than pond tank, as I have kept the 2 filters going so there is a high flow to it, I think ponds have more pleasant stillness  as you say. I am also just starting to explore how I can create more sculptural abstract forms and different materials into my tanks, so that has definitely bent it in a different way than if I was going for a very naturalistic vibe. There are sooooo many ways to do an outside tank/pond tank, so I've just gone for one version so far that brings in this arty side of me. There's great room for experimentation, I hope lots more people give ti a try. Especially with electricity bills rising, an unheated tank is a great way to make it a bit cheaper too. My outdoor aquarium will be more traditionally done with wood and stones, since I think it being outside is probably different enough for now, and as you said there are enough challenges in the algae and sunlight to keep me busy. I'm also intrigued by it in winter, I think I should wrap it up like you did your tubs? What would you do?

It will also be more of a pond aquarium tank, as it will only have a very small filter and be lowtech, not enough flow to make things move much. As soon as I saw the Aphanius mentho in your pond, I knew they would need their own special place as those males were so beautifully black and blue, and my actual pond they're in right now is quite dark with dark pond liner sides, I won't get to appreciate them in there so much... hench, outside aquarium! I'm always up for a challenge! I think if it's successful, I will keep it for qite a few years and experiment with keeping some indoor fish outdoors for a few months to see their condition change and for breeding. I will be on the lookout for a pair of the paradisefish too for next year.



mort said:


> I love it. For me it's similar to Courtney's cool edible scape, being familiar but seemingly very different to the norm at the same time.


Yes!! Thank you Mort, that is what I'm going for. I think that's why Courtney and me get along so well, we have similar mindsets that love to try something different by remixing and collaging. There are so many different intrigueing options out there, it's irresistable to try them! So much potential for interesting unusual aquariums that use different materials and building techniques, and still create great habitat for our creatures.


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## Courtneybst (30 May 2022)

shangman said:


> So annoying when it looks cool irl but doesn't quite translate.


A daily struggle 😅


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## shangman (5 Jul 2022)

Have been quiet for quite a while, mostly as we acquired a pair of the most stunning beautiful kittens a month ago. They're just perfect and I've been spending all my time cuddling and playing with them! As always I'm surrounding myself with the best nature has to offer  I've also been.... planning a macroalgae bowl 👀 .... more on that another time!

Anyway, FISH TANK.








 


Since the last update the tank has been pretty hammered by diatoms. They are finally starting to slow down now, though def not gone yet. A lot of things went brown, and at the same time quite a few plants struggled and died, both under and above the water. Above the water, the deaths were due to my arch nemesis APHIDS who slurped down the watercress, _Baldellia ranunculoides_ and _Myriophyllum brasiliensis. _I haven't replaced them yet, so the top is looking a lil boring compared to last time, need to find something nice and waxy to replace them with. Below the water, the hottonia has almost completely gone, I've only got a few stems left. Interestingly the emergent stems I bought are the surviving ones, and the underwater stems all just melted away. A big shame, as it was cheap and I used it to cover up the bottom. I think it would do better in lowtech with little flow. I collected more starwort and some different ludwigias (and a few other fancy stems some friends gave me) to replace it with on the mounds, and a selection of groundcover plants for the bottom. The starwort is doing fantastically though so that's nice, it's a plant that isn't usually used in an aquarium but I definitely think could be a nice contender - I've never been able to grow rotala well, but this stuff thrives!

So the bottom has filled out really nicely now. As well as hydrocotyle vulgaris and verticilliata (vulgaris is doing the best), I've added a lot of marsilea quadrifolia which was growing long runners across the top of the tank, and it's worked great. I also got some grasses from @Courtneybst tank shutdown to cover the bases of the mounds that were tragically bare. I'm feeling a lot more into it now, the sticklebacks look great amongst it. The mounds aren't quite right yet, but I'm hoping now the growth is healthy I can slowly trim them into the right shapes and proportion. I'm absolutely gagging for a lightscreen background, i think it would really set everything off nicely, gotta design and build that asap! 

Mother Nature's latest gift to me is cyanobacteria, to remind me that there is always something new to learn about. 🙃 There's a bottle of cyano-killer coming in the post. 



 





























About 3 weeks ago I added a group of 10 sticklebacks to live with Mr Stickle. He wasn't happy at all at first and chased them all around for a week, but then during the heatwave he seemed to give up and now they're all (mostly) friends. It's funny he went from hidden 90% of the time, to out front and center making sure they all knew it was HIS TANK they're living in. 2 of the sticklebacks died, one the day after I got them had to be euthanised cos it had weird white patches on it, and one from the day it was very hot. I have bottles of rainwater in the freezer now for the next hot day. I have 3 males of 9 which is great and means theres not too much agrivation, and 2 of the males have taken up living in the front right and left corners. Mr Stickle is still the most beautiful colourful one, the second male who is his neighbour has gone pearly white. The females are all metallic silver or brown. The fish aren't afraid of me at all, whether I'm watching them from the front and come over quickly, or putting my arms in to do maintenence. They also eat the aphids I plonk in the tank which is great, and they use the whole tank - picking at the bottom and zooming around the rest, often checking the surface for any insects and swimming in the flow of the lily pipe. They only eat live and frozen food, don't like the dry at all but it's not difficult to deal with in summer. The tank so far hasn't dipped below 21 since I got them annoyingly. I'm not sure if they will breed in these conditions, but I wish they would as 9 sticklebacks doesn't quite add the flurry of activity I like to see in a tank! Maybe I should've got 20 rather than 10. They are definitely interesting fish to keep with really interesting behaviour! 

However I do find myself really missing schools of tiny fish, shrimps, lil catfishes, all those creatures that add movement. It's a big shame there arne't any tiny native fish to fill the gap, so I'm hoping with the amount of livefood I'm feeding them that they might breed and it's not too late in the season! I still have that 100cm tank in the back of my mind, I'm currently in negotiations about whether I could set it up as a lowtech SA community. Hmm, we'll see!











​


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## seedoubleyou (5 Jul 2022)

Looking forward to the bowl Rosie.


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## The Miniaturist (5 Jul 2022)

Love it, absolutely beautiful with such excellent photography.
*BUT *where are the kitten photos!!


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## tam (5 Jul 2022)

It looks amazing! I love all the detail in the mix of plants. 

Would some other native critters help with the movement you are missing - I'm sure they would pick off some but perhaps snails, asellus? I'm not sure what's bigger but not a threat to fish beetle wise.


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## shangman (8 Jul 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Looking forward to the bowl Rosie.


Thanks!! I’ve get set it up and I’m so excited, will make a journal for it this week. Sneaky peak… set up yesterday and already gone green from the sun 😂 






The Miniaturist said:


> Love it, absolutely beautiful with such excellent photography.
> *BUT *where are the kitten photos!!


I knew someone would notice I was being lazy not adding a few pics 😂 they’re 12 weeks old, still small but they look quite big in pics! First 2 are them now, third is when we first saw them at 8 weeks.  We’re all OBSESSED they’re  SO CUTE. 









tam said:


> It looks amazing! I love all the detail in the mix of plants.
> 
> Would some other native critters help with the movement you are missing - I'm sure they would pick off some but perhaps snails, asellus? I'm not sure what's bigger but not a threat to fish beetle wise.


Thank you! I think you are right, I need to add some big pond snails and things like that. Maybe we’ll try to catch some smaller beetles and see what happens. If I was keeping the tank for longer and didn’t need to think about where I would rehome them to, I would go a bit weird with the fish choice add white mountain minnows and sewellia or something. I’m quite intrigued to see if the sticklebacks would be fine with other species that don’t have the same niche.


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## seedoubleyou (8 Jul 2022)

Is that rock or coral skeleton in there?


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## Wookii (8 Jul 2022)

Maybe I’ve had too much IPA - but I can’t help but see a seated baby Groot right there?


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## John q (8 Jul 2022)

Wookii said:


> Maybe I’ve had too much IPA -


Never was that statement muttered by a sane man. 😀


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## shangman (8 Jul 2022)

Also, if you guys ever thought to yourself “hmm I wonder what the rest of shangman’s house looks like”,  you may  like this video, where the always lovely @George Farmer came over for lunch and did a little blog showing off my tanks and house a bit.





seedoubleyou said:


> Is that rock or coral skeleton in there?


The main bit is a coral skeleton my mum collected 40 years ago on holiday in Devon, it’s been knocking about for years with no proper place, so I finally gave it one! There are also 3 small  bits of live rock in there from my LFS, you can see on the bottom right and bottom, apparently been in their system  for years. Very kindly they gave it to me for free! I guess they know now I’m on the hook for all sorts of lovely things to fill it with. There isn’t much obvious life on it, I think I noticed a single tiny brown zoa on it only.

I’m doing a few weeks dark start to let it cycle, while I work out where to get my macro algae and mangrove propule from. Just bought an AI Prime HD Fresh to go over it too, but the window does A LOT.



Wookii said:


> View attachment 190845
> 
> Maybe I’ve had too much IPA - but I can’t help but see a seated baby Groot right there?


You’re gonna have to do me a drawing, I’m very intrigued! What does everyone else see in the crystal ball??


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## The Miniaturist (8 Jul 2022)

A pair of furry beauties, I can see little paws dipping into tanks & bowls....! They're already practicing their "it wasn't me!" innocent expressions!
The bowl is intriguing, I can't believe it's turned green so fast, eagerly waiting for the new journal! Possibly called Rosie's Crystal Ball? 😄


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## shangman (8 Jul 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> A pair of furry beauties, I can see little paws dipping into tanks & bowls....! They're already practicing their "it wasn't me!" innocent expressions!
> The bowl is intriguing, I can't believe it's turned green so fast, eagerly waiting for the new journal! Possibly called Rosie's Crystal Ball? 😄


That’s completely accurate, they will only drink water from my nano tanks so far 😂 luckily I had the forethought to move the rice fish before we got them. They’ve also broken the new leaves off one of the prized philodendrons which NO ONE rose in the house could’ve got away with - their cuteness makes everything ok. 

Yes I was quite surprised, but it does get a lot of sun - and more algae = some lovely snails. It’s my witchy mermaid crystal ball! Totally 😂 even more so when I first filled it…


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## John q (8 Jul 2022)

shangman said:


> hmm I wonder what the rest of shangman’s house looks like”, you may like this video


❤️


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## shangman (8 Jul 2022)

Wookii said:


> View attachment 190845
> 
> Maybe I’ve had too much IPA - but I can’t help but see a seated baby Groot right there?


WAIT … I see it!


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## Wookii (8 Jul 2022)

shangman said:


> WAIT … I see it!
> 
> View attachment 190849



You got it! It’s almost like he’s sat down, looking wistfully into the distance! 😆 

. . . and now I can’t un-see it 😂


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## George Farmer (9 Jul 2022)

What a treat that was! Thanks mate


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## shangman (9 Jul 2022)

George Farmer said:


> What a treat that was! Thanks mate


You’ll have to come again, I think my dad misses you already 😂 BFFs 4 life


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## Conort2 (9 Jul 2022)

shangman said:


> you may like this video,


Love the house, aquariums and the cats! Great video.


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## shangman (27 Jul 2022)

I haven’t posted as much recently, I think because tbh I’ve not been enjoying this tank that much. I like it in theory, I like the idea of it, but irl it’s just not catching me like the old one did. I think it’s because it doesn’t feel like a fascinating community of fish with lots of little interesting things going on, it’s just 8 sticklebacks who haven’t bred lol. The maintenance is too much for how little  enjoyment I get out of it. Also half of the plants dropped dead in the heatwave! Fish were fine though. 

So I think it’s soon time to give these sticklebacks to someone with a fabulous pond, and get some apistos and other lovely little fish. And maybe some nice unusual ferns.


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## PARAGUAY (28 Jul 2022)

I think your spot on if you stop enjoying a set up it's time for change. Why not set up a planted bowl or just planted tank while you plan your next🙂keeps the mojo going


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## The Miniaturist (28 Jul 2022)

Sorry the pondquarium didn't turn out as hoped, sometimes Nature simply refuses to be tamed! Finding a good home for any livestock & stripping down again shouldn't be as unpleasant as last time. You can then decide on the kind of set up that you really want which will mature & evolve over months & potentially years.


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## mort (28 Jul 2022)

I've not had my mojo for a while because of lots of disruption beyond my control which made the fish something I had to be concerned about and not something to simply relax and enjoy (so not to disimilar to what you went through). I hadn't been to a lfs in over 3 years and only went because my brother wanted some fish. I came back with a little red breast acara, the last one they had who hadn't sold in about 8 months apparently. It started a little burst of interest for me and I now happily sift through all the live food bins just to give it something tasty. Hopefully I can get him a few girls in the future. 

It really is hard to beat that cichlid charm so if you miss them just go for it.


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## shangman (29 Jul 2022)

PARAGUAY said:


> I think your spot on if you stop enjoying a set up it's time for change. Why not set up a planted bowl or just planted tank while you plan your next🙂keeps the mojo going


Luckily I do have other tanks to focus on in the meantime, including a little marine bowl  I was thinking a while ago maybe I could rescape this big tank into a marine one, but realistically I think that's a few years off. And I miss my tropical fish!!



The Miniaturist said:


> Sorry the pondquarium didn't turn out as hoped, sometimes Nature simply refuses to be tamed! Finding a good home for any livestock & stripping down again shouldn't be as unpleasant as last time. You can then decide on the kind of set up that you really want which will mature & evolve over months & potentially years.


It's ok, I think I just needed a break for a while. It was a really interesting experiment, and I really enjoyed making the structure and the sticklebacks, but I just realised what I love in a tank is that ecosystem feeling of different fish living in a community and picking them right so they all get along. Also I was too late to get the sticklebacks to breed I think which was a shame. I think intellectually it was a cool tank, but then irl it just didn't have that eden vibe I love. 

It's DEFINITELY not as bad as last time! The sticklebacks I have found a home for (and a backup in case), and the structure shouldn't be too hard to take apart. No bleaching this time either, and I will keep my filter pretty much the same just a clean. 

I'm thinking of starting off with a blackwater + some floating plants, and then thinking about adding some interesting epiphytes and rare moss slowly. I want something really easy which is also great habitat for the fish, and can be evolved over time. I also have a 30cm cube tank in the same room which is in need of a rescape, so that will work great as a quarantine tank too. The only question is, do I use rainwater/RO or tap? Tap is so easy, but this could be a chance to keep some lovely unusual softwater species. There isn't much rain atm either, but could perhaps get a small RO unit. 

Last year when I was searching for hardscape for my big tank my dad came across some nice cheap bits of corbo catfish wood and stored them down the allotment, so this weekend I'll get them in and see if I can come up with something interesting with them. I'm hoping I can build a structure with a few emergent bits of wood, that was always my fav. Hmm, maybe can do a dry start with some nice moss on parts of it...



mort said:


> I've not had my mojo for a while because of lots of disruption beyond my control which made the fish something I had to be concerned about and not something to simply relax and enjoy (so not to disimilar to what you went through). I hadn't been to a lfs in over 3 years and only went because my brother wanted some fish. I came back with a little red breast acara, the last one they had who hadn't sold in about 8 months apparently. It started a little burst of interest for me and I now happily sift through all the live food bins just to give it something tasty. Hopefully I can get him a few girls in the future.
> 
> It really is hard to beat that cichlid charm so if you miss them just go for it.


It is so awful when all you can do is worry about the fish, so much anxiety and dread, it really takes all the calming joy out. What a lucky little red breast acara that is, I'm so glad they inspired you to return  Hope you find him some girlfriends soon Honestly the cichlids are just too charming, I've been going to LFS for little bits of marine stuff and always find myself having a look at the apistos longingly. A bit worried that the same grim stuff will happen, but this time will take lots of precautions and do things slowly. I just can't stop thinking about keeping tropical fish again in a nice big tank again!


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## Hufsa (29 Jul 2022)

shangman said:


> and then thinking about adding some interesting epiphytes and rare moss slowly.


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## shangman (29 Jul 2022)

Hufsa said:


> View attachment 191614
> 
> View attachment 191615


😂😂😂😂😂 YES

If I’m gonna have moss, it had better be POSH MOSS. I’ll use your tank as a catalog for finding the best species it’s got so many types! 😂

One of the reasons I’ve been thinking more about a rescape is because of unusual ferns. I went to the British Pteridological Society event at Wisley last weekend, and there was a stand with a range of aquatic ferns, with a few unusual ones I haven’t seen before or seen a good example of which was interesting. My dad is a member and I only just realised this year what a massive collection of unusual ferns he keeps in the garden, so I thought it’s a nice idea to continue that with my tank and keep my own. Plus apparently he has a few I could perch above the waterline that would do well… I’m so over keeping emergent plants that greenfly like to eat. Tough plants only in this house ffs


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## shangman (29 Jul 2022)

With a title like Resurrections, Life & All That Jazz, I might just keep the tank going tropical again to this journal rather than make a whole new one. What do you think? But could make a new one as this first chapter comes to a close.

I’ve started thinking about what to do with it - all this is hypothetical, you know how I change my mind! Have accepted that I like to change tanks up a bit, so I won’t set up the tank fully immediately, I’ll let it evolve and hope that each stage will look good, and will be relatively easy and low maintenance, plus nice habitats for the fish with lots of enrichment. Starting with only sand, floating plants and big botanicals, then a few weeks or more later when the botanicals fall apart, adding wood that’s quite easily removable for maintenance, maybe with a dry start done in the wood in the meantime, then epiphytic ferns and mosses,  a few lilies in a pot of soil hidden behind the  wood perhaps (or long  grass) Rocks? Idk, they’ll be another layer to add in later maybe. Maybe pebbles and a mix of rounded gravel with the sand in some  places. Will start up lowtech, it’s easier for me and the fish. I like the idea of slowly building the whole scape and appreciating each stage. Eventually the goal will be lushness, but I’ll try to spend ages getting there.

I’ll also stagger adding the fish, quarantining a species at a time for 6 weeks or so in the 30cm cube. Will put the first type  of fish in straight away and pretreat there though I think. Probably a good  school of tetras cos I’m a total cliche at heart 😂 choosing fish is gonna be hard af, so many lovelies.


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## shangman (31 Jul 2022)

Alright I'm back, fantastising about all MANY possibilities there are starting from scratch again. I guess I could keep anything! I did think for a bit about having a fabulous Asian community with badis, wild bettas, big school of chilli & tiny blue rasboras, etc but I think the small South American fish are (mostly) gonna win out again.

So far I think -
Pair/trio of apistos - borellii or agasizzii probs. I'm thinking I'm just going to go with what apistos look great at ADC, they have a great selection of apistos in good health. They have some of those insanely blue/orange alenquer agasizii which look almost fake but are stunning. Or if anyone knows of some others around? 👀
Something small and weird - maybe some morpho darter tetras? @Conort2  do you keep these, what are they like? Also how are the green darters?

Main school - I'm thinking green neons, there is a group at ADC that all react to your hands near the tank, schooling all together at the top and it's cool af. My cardinals never schooled and I'd like something that does sometimes, and I think the colour will look great in blackwater.
Niche school - I have been thinking about those threadfin rainbows again. Yeah, they're not South American, but they are so beautifully dramatic in silhouette, I think they would go well. Or maybe an interesting tetra like the yellow silvertips or green jellybeans, anyone kept these?
Maybe maybe maybe - Pencilfish - you'd think I'd be detered, but I loved those pencilfish and I'd like to try them again. Maybe a different species, perhaps Eques. The tank has very fast flow at the top atm, so going to replace a lily pipe with one of those weirdly shaped ones so they can enjoy the top more. NGL if I found a good source for the marginatus I might have to try them again though. Even when it’s a blackwater I’ll be keeping a lot of floating plants and emergent growth to keep them happy.

Corydoras - I loved the pygmies, but I think it's time to try something else, a proper Cory. Proooobably Corydoras Habrosus, maybe Coryodras nannus, or even one of the small Aspidoras that the Fish Barn seem to get in sometimes. ANOTHER option is those lovely little brown darter tetras, which apparently they can get at WoW. Not sure if they would   clear the sand, anyone kept them?
Otos - zebras would be nice. Will have to save up, but they are lovely and would love a botanical-heavy tank. Or maybe  some other interesting oxyropsis-type that turn up every now and again, whichever I get I want a good group.
A few single weird catfish - any suggestions? Would love to keep another niche catfish like the Red Lizard Whiptail, but mine never seemed to eat much. Farowella too big for this tank? Maybe a few of those tiny stone catfish?

Send me your colourful, cute and slightly strange suggestions!!


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## Conort2 (31 Jul 2022)

shangman said:


> Something small and weird - maybe some morpho darter tetras? @Conort2 do you keep these, what are they like? Also how are the green darters?


I do although I’m down to the last few now due to old age. I find them easy to keep, soft water low flow and lots of cover in the form of plants or leaf litter suits them. 

Green darters didn’t do great unfortunately. I’m down to one who has been doing great but got attacked by a baby apisto and lost an eye. Since these hunt by vision it’s really affected it and struggles to put away as much food as it used to. I wouldn’t really recommend either species with apistogrammas. Dicrossus maybe at a push but if I’m honest I wouldn’t keep cichlids with these species if I was to keep them again.

Cheers


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## AlecF (1 Aug 2022)

THB I have the habrosus and they are a bit dull. I much prefer my False Julii, standard size Cory, but with more character. I also have elegans, which I bred quite easily. But I still think it's the Julii that have the most playful behaviour.


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## shangman (5 Nov 2022)

I haven't forgotten about this journal, but I've been taking my sweeeeeeeet time working out what to do next. I have finally accepted that I can't keep away and I definitely have to return to my sweet South American fish, but with quite a lot of caution.

This scape has been down for a few months, and about 2 months later than I should've, I finally cleaned it out. It's been empty for a month. I've been gathering twigs and roots for the scape, and planning out possible fish choices a bit more. I even saved up and splurged on a backlight for the tank so I can live my aesthetic dreams.

The thing that's stopping me right now is the winter energy crisis. I'm sort of thinking of setting the tank up after my birthday which is at the end of February, so I can avoid any extra blackout drama this winter, save money and potentially fish lives. I'd hate to have the next lot drop dead on me so soon. What do you guys think, is this me being sensible or overly cautious?




Conort2 said:


> I do although I’m down to the last few now due to old age. I find them easy to keep, soft water low flow and lots of cover in the form of plants or leaf litter suits them.
> 
> Green darters didn’t do great unfortunately. I’m down to one who has been doing great but got attacked by a baby apisto and lost an eye. Since these hunt by vision it’s really affected it and struggles to put away as much food as it used to. I wouldn’t really recommend either species with apistogrammas. Dicrossus maybe at a push but if I’m honest I wouldn’t keep cichlids with these species if I was to keep them again.
> 
> Cheers


Well the morphos sound like they're still on the list! They'll fit within the tank plans well. Will keep an eye out for some healthy looking ones, all the ones I've seen in the shops before looked a bit dodgy.

That's very sad about the green darters  I had an intruiging conversation with Dan at Wildwoods about them, he said he kept them a few years ago and that they were very hardy for him, lasted a few years and ate well in his community tank. I'm thinking it's about sourcing really good stock, always difficult but we'll see if I can find something, I think it's worth waiting for great fish this time around. Interesting about your baby apistos, I've never had any attack another fish like that! Was it a baby of those beautiful white apistos you kept?



AlecF said:


> THB I have the habrosus and they are a bit dull. I much prefer my False Julii, standard size Cory, but with more character. I also have elegans, which I bred quite easily. But I still think it's the Julii that have the most playful behaviour.


That is good to know tbh, best to keep the most interesting fish I can! I'm still umming and erring about any cories at all, but I will keep an eye out for jullii at the shops so I can get a good look at their charming behaviour!


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## shangman (10 Nov 2022)

Been thinking about it and f*ck it I want it back! I don’t wanna wait any more 😂 Been assured by a few friends that during  blackouts the  tanks will be ok for a few hours, and a battery powered airstone on  each tank is cheap and with help keep things ticking over. I miss the apistos, and doing maintenance in the winter evenings is a good use of time. 

I’ve been using the light from this tank on my new marine, but just ordered some marine lights which comes early this week, so the Twinstar can go back into action on this tank. 

It’s gonna be lowtech and I’m gonna take it slow, maybe blackwater style if it stops raining and I can collect some good leaves. Something that fits with my life, and lets me be creative.


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## Courtneybst (10 Nov 2022)

That's what I've been moving towards over the last few months, something that fits in with my lifestyle!

Makes it much more enjoyable.

Looking forward to seeing what you create.


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## shangman (11 Nov 2022)

Courtneybst said:


> That's what I've been moving towards over the last few months, something that fits in with my lifestyle!
> 
> Makes it much more enjoyable.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you create.


Yeah exactly, the hobby is meant to be enjoyable and fit in with our lives, rather than become them! Sometimes I do too much and stress myself out, so need to avoid that. It's a nice challenge, cos really if I do it well it won't be a challenge at all.

I went to Aquatic Designe Center today to purchase marine creatures, and they were selling Japanese Nuphar lilies with big fat bulbs and stems, I'm thinking one of them in this easy tank could be a show-piece plant 👀 I really like the idea of blackwater + lilies of various kinds.


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