# Shrimp Colony and cube size



## Aqua360 (7 Sep 2016)

Hi all,

recently I mentioned the mini project I've been messing around with, involving a trio of 12l tanks. They're progressing well, with one holding my cherry/sakura red shrimps, but I am noticing no berried females in the tank; which suggests to me that they are either merely surviving, that perhaps the conditions aren't suitable to encourage them to breed.

That, coupled with my pretty real fear of holding all of my reds in the one tank (I can just imagine a visitor haplessly spraying perfume or something or other catastrophe), has me considering a separate tank upstairs to breed the best colours and/or have a safe colony.

I've been looking at Dennerle tanks (partial to them), including the scapers 35, nano cube 20l and nano cube 30l; and feel myself drawn towards the cubes. Being as indecisive as I am, I wondered if anyone had an opinion on the differences between the 20 and 30?

Probably splitting straws, since the footprint is 10x10, vs 12x12; I'd read somewhere though that the mosses etc in the 20's are easier to grow under lower intensity lighting due to the height of 12 inches vs the 14 of the 30.

If anyone has pics of their cubes as well, would love to see them; i've been getting inspiration from a few people on here with absolutely fantastic scapes, showing the potential of cubes


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## rebel (7 Sep 2016)

It takes ages for them to settle and start breeding. Once they start, it should be fine.

For CRS it takes even longer for them to settle.


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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Choose a footprint you like the esthetics of - I prefer the 30l cubes
30l nano 30 x 30 x 35cm (height)
20l nano 25 x 25 x 30cm (height)
on paper they don't sound much different, in real life, I found I liked the 30 considerably more (& I feel more comfortable sneaking in some fish   )


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## Aqua360 (7 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Choose a footprint you like the esthetics of - I prefer the 30l cubes
> 30l nano 30 x 30 x 35cm (height)
> 20l nano 25 x 25 x 30cm (height)
> on paper they don't sound much different, in real life, I found I liked the 30 considerably more (& I feel more comfortable sneaking in some fish   )



I'm hopefully going to see a couple of cubes in the shop tomorrow, not the dennerle ones; but at least get some perspective


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## X3NiTH (8 Sep 2016)

It takes ages for them to get going, I waited a long time. As long as they're not dying it will eventually happen provided you have both sexes in the same tank at the same time. Split the colony if you can keeping female to male ratio the same or more females to males (females will climb out the tank to avoid injury if pressure from the males is too high after first mating easily injured/killed and subsequently eaten (brain first through soft carapace), I've seen this firsthand), this way if one tank takes a dive the other can survive, resist the urge to move them over to the ok looking tank if one tank takes a dive and the occupants are dying as this can pass on infection if the shrimp are sick and both tanks get wiped out.

Mixing CRS and RCS together even though they can't produce offspring between them can bring other sets of problems, I did and discovered that RCS males will be pheremonaly attracted to female CRS and will attempt to mate and deposit a sperm packet, what happens is usually the mating attempt will usually be successful if there is enough pressure from RCS males (breed faster and more numerous than CRS), they can be small enough and be mature enough to get between a CRS male and the CRS female and either dislodge previous suitors packet or disrupt it and add its own onto it, the result is no offspring from the male CRS attempt with the female if the RCS get there first and if there are enough she can be inundated with RCS packets and by the time the male CRS deposits his packet, he will be lucky if it's not sitting uselessly at the top of the heap. Seen it, won't mix them again in any future colony!

Already have the 10L, had big plans for it but it's too small for a good sized colony even more so if scaped, If I had the space a few 20's would be on my list.


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## SinkorSwim (8 Sep 2016)

X3NiTH said:


> It takes ages for them to get going, I waited a long time. As long as they're not dying it will eventually happen provided you have both sexes in the same tank at the same time. Split the colony if you can keeping female to male ratio the same or more females to males (females will climb out the tank to avoid injury if pressure from the males is too high after first mating easily injured/killed and subsequently eaten (brain first through soft carapace), I've seen this firsthand), this way if one tank takes a dive the other can survive, resist the urge to move them over to the ok looking tank if one tank takes a dive and the occupants are dying as this can pass on infection if the shrimp are sick and both tanks get wiped out.
> 
> Mixing CRS and RCS together even though they can't produce offspring between them can bring other sets of problems, I did and discovered that RCS males will be pheremonaly attracted to female CRS and will attempt to mate and deposit a sperm packet, what happens is usually the mating attempt will usually be successful if there is enough pressure from RCS males (breed faster and more numerous than CRS), they can be small enough and be mature enough to get between a CRS male and the CRS female and either dislodge previous suitors packet or disrupt it and add its own onto it, the result is no offspring from the male CRS attempt with the female if the RCS get there first and if there are enough she can be inundated with RCS packets and by the time the male CRS deposits his packet, he will be lucky if it's not sitting uselessly at the top of the heap. Seen it, won't mix them again in any future colony!
> 
> Already have the 10L, had big plans for it but it's too small for a good sized colony even more so if scaped, If I had the space a few 20's would be on my list.



great tip re the mixing of shrimp - and put's any plans I had to mix them well and truly on ice. my blue neo shrimp have taken 2 1/2 months to get to the stage of breeding with my first berried shrimp seen only last week - so I know now how long it will take when trying to start a colony.


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## Aqua360 (8 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Choose a footprint you like the esthetics of - I prefer the 30l cubes
> 30l nano 30 x 30 x 35cm (height)
> 20l nano 25 x 25 x 30cm (height)
> on paper they don't sound much different, in real life, I found I liked the 30 considerably more (& I feel more comfortable sneaking in some fish   )



yeah it's one of those ones where i don't want it to be too massive looking in the bedroom, its for my bedside table lol; does the 30 look quite bulky?


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## Lindy (8 Sep 2016)

Here are some dreadful pics that I have taken of the screen of my laptop as I can't remember how to put the pictures on ukaps from laptop  
These are of 2 dennerle 30l cubes I put on a shelf approx 75-80ish cm wide. And the others are of a 30cm cube on the shelf alone.











30cmx30cm is a great base size and 30l is better than 20l for stability. Cut out a bit of card in the footprint sizes you are looking at and put it were the tank might go.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Aqua360 (8 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> Here are some dreadful pics that I have taken of the screen of my laptop as I can't remember how to put the pictures on ukaps from laptop
> These are of 2 dennerle 30l cubes I put on a shelf approx 75-80ish cm wide. And the others are of a 30cm cube on the shelf alone.
> 
> 
> ...



Those 30's do look awesome, look like they benefit from the wider front panel size...biggest cube i had previously was 20 litres, always felt just a tad constrained.

Thanks!


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## Lindy (8 Sep 2016)

What tds are you keeping the cherrys at?


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## Aqua360 (8 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> What tds are you keeping the cherrys at?



right now its at 195, but i like to try and keep it around 170; climbs quickly in the 12 litre


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## SinkorSwim (8 Sep 2016)

Nice photos, couldn't help but notice the leaf in your tanks Lindy..I've just ordered what feels like a back garden worth of litter leaf and decided that my input food wise is going to be minimal powder Bacter AE and the Dennerle Bio tase (alternating) along with leaf litter. My shrimp consistently ignore what i offer them in any case.. and all that food I cooked up is still frozen in my freezer. Too apprehensive to feed them some in case of water pollution.


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## Lindy (8 Sep 2016)

There were betta splendens in those tanks so had almond leaves in. I usually have 1 in my shrimp tank too. 
Aqua360 maybe you should raise the tds higher. When I started out in had crs and kept tds at 120. This was too low and through advice from a very experienced shrimp keeper I raised it to 160. I keep my shrimp between 160 and 180 now. Your cherries might like it more like 220 - 250 so it's worth a go. Shrimp keeping is about finding that sweet spot for every individual tank. If it isn't working then tweek it. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## SinkorSwim (9 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> There were betta splendens in those tanks so had almond leaves in. I usually have 1 in my shrimp tank too.
> Aqua360 maybe you should raise the tds higher. When I started out in had crs and kept tds at 120. This was too low and through advice from a very experienced shrimp keeper I raised it to 160. I keep my shrimp between 160 and 180 now. Your cherries might like it more like 220 - 250 so it's worth a go. Shrimp keeping is about finding that sweet spot for every individual tank. If it isn't working then tweek it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


This ties in with exactly what I was advised by a trader. I keep my tds at 200 - 250.


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## SinkorSwim (9 Sep 2016)

I've now got banana, mulberry, guava, cappata and amaranth leaf. All are doing their job and shrimp seem content.slight issue with snails destroy v the mulberry but I'm happy the feed regime I'm on is for the best. I'll add a grain of bee pollen now and again if I think babies have hatched.


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## Doozer999 (12 Sep 2016)

Hi there, not sure if this'll be useful but I've had such good advice from others on here is nice to (hopefully) be able to give something back!

I've set this up for you to show a side by side comparison of a Dennerle 20 and 30.  This isn't how they are, but should give you an idea of relative size.

For info, the smaller tank (RCS) is in the process of being "looked at" for scaping ideas, the larger is a work in progress (crs).

I know what you mean about seeing other people's tanks for ideas! The problem is I love them all, but can only ever remember the last one I saw!!

I think they are lovely tanks, with the curved fronts.  If it's for a beside table, I think the 20 would look better - but depends how big your bedside is!  Also, for what it's worth, I've had no issues keeping parameters stable in either size tank.


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## Aqua360 (12 Sep 2016)

Doozer999 said:


> Hi there, not sure if this'll be useful but I've had such good advice from others on here is nice to (hopefully) be able to give something back!
> 
> I've set this up for you to show a side by side comparison of a Dennerle 20 and 30.  This isn't how they are, but should give you an idea of relative size.
> 
> ...



that's very kind, thanks a lot! 

I'm still debating lol, I don't even know if it's going to be for 2 betta's, (cube each!) now, or go with my original plans for dedicating to shrimps lol.

I really like the wood in each of your cubes though, so both of yours are for shrimp?


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## Doozer999 (12 Sep 2016)

Well, that's very kind of you...  I see wonderful tank setups but can never then get my hands to do what my eye just saw!  So if you like the wood in my tanks... I'll take that, thank you!!

The small one is just one idea, I'm seeing if that layout grows on me.

The larger one is really... just waterlogging the wood before I try a layout!

I'm using the smaller one as "aquascaping practice 101''... then, if I manage to get my eye in, I'll progress to my larger tank!

Yes, shrimps in both.  RCS in the small, currently dry, tank.  Crs in the bigger one.  I actually have a couple of smaller (20 litre) tanks, to get a good quantity of RCS, and also to breed out some blues and black crs/Taiwan's as the 30 has various F1s in it ...


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