# Is more light ever the answer to an algae issue?



## Kezzab (25 Jun 2017)

It's all in the title really.

I ask because specifically I am running a planted sump. The plants in my display tank suffer from a bit of black fuzz algae, the plants in the sump are clean as a whistle.

The only difference I can think of are the lighting and the flow. Clearly the water is identical.

My thought is my display tank light is underpowered, hence plants growing weakly and very slowly, and algae is capitalizing on that. 

I have various plants growing emersed in display tank and sump, none show obvious signs of nutrient deficiency.

The tank is 100% low tech, no co2, no ferts. Actual soil substrate. Would consider feeding a bit. But please don't tell me I should be adding co2!

Answers on a postcard please.


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## roadmaster (26 Jun 2017)

Plant's grow weak and grow very slowly without food with high or low light IMHO
I do not use CO2 injection, but do use carbon supplement (Metricide14).
I also feed a bit of macro/.micro nutrient's once or twice a week.(all submerged plants)
If plant's in display tank are growing emersed,then they prolly aren't lacking For available CO2 which leaves nutrient's and light.
Increase nutrient's,then can see if it is light the plant's are calling for depending on species No?
Could be more Nitrogen available in sump from gathering on mechanical, or biomedia
Is same PAR in display tank and sump?
Thing's to consider for me.


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## zozo (26 Jun 2017)

I think yes and no, it always is multi factor issue.. I can find no other word than an equilibrium of multiple factors.. Algae species, Plant species and how well they can cope with the natural co2 equilibrium, placement. substrate contents and consistancy in relation to the plants in it, ferts (co2), both natural and or supplemented,life stock, water parameters, temperatur and light. In my theory these are about all factors i can think off having a degree of impact on plantgrowth, but likely forgot or just don't know a few more.

In this chain all links should be in a near perfect equilibrium and complement eachother.. And it is about impossible to give it a number or value to a dynamic chain of events like this.. One beeing off can trigger an event complementing certain algae sp. to grow.

And i came to this theory because i maintain about 6 bodies of water in 6 different conditions where i'm growing aquatic plants. 2 artificialy lit indoor tanks 1 indoor tank naturaly lit and 1 tank, a bath tub and a wooden barrel in the garden under the sun. And all 6 have it's own unique individual characteristics conserning algae issues and plantgrowth.. As far as i consider it algae issues, but they all have it, which every healthy water body should have. I guess because i'm not realy buzzy and to lazzy to worry about cross contamination all probably have the same algae spores introduced and roaming around. But still not all develop the same algae sp to obvious visual numbers. The wooden barrel is fishless, but contains daphnia etc. is crystal clear but as only one develops Clado algae, the garden tank with sticklebacks has a strange dust algae accumulating and even floating at the surface, the bath tub has =/- 15 goldfish and only develops aufwuchs. All 3 are unshaded for quite some hours of the day.

1 lowlight indoor tank which only has shrimps only collects diatoms and some green spot to the glass it never grows BBA it even dies in this tank if i throw it in. The other higher lit tank which was high tech for 2 years and the last several months low tech again developend BBA on the plants and hardscape and greenspot on the glass only. The naturaly lit indoor tank, stands under a roof window receiving filtered daylight develops BBA and greenspot on the plants.

I do not use algicides (glut) and i experience algae growth beeing pretty dynamic in a way with a cycle and comes and goes.

The naturaly lit indoor tank which actualy also runs on a planted sump i definitely have the impression light is a trigger because during the winter periode where intensity and periode is lowest and shortest it has less algae especialy less green spot.. In the summer light periode which is slowly raising up while the summer matures and always fluctating in intensity it has a dymamic algae population reacting to it. I noticed plants doing beter and fighting of green spot and bba with adding little extra phospate and potassium. So for this tank a increase of light seems to require and increase of fert elements to positively inflluence that chain of events again.

Funny is the outdoor water bodies receiving the highest light intensity with the longest periode never develop BBA nor greenspot.. I do not know but i have a hunch it could be temperatur beeing a trigger conserning BBA. The indoor tanks developing it have a steady temperature, outdoor this temperature is relatively cooler and fluctuating. It might be a tropical algae sp. i don't know.

Quite a long story to get to no conclusive answer.. I'm sorry, but for me that's the truth i'm in. What ever i experience, might be contrary to yours and the whole algae discussion reverts back to where we started.. 

You have to try things and go with what works and or keep trying till you find something that works.. Go with the flow.. We can consider an aquarium as an individual dynamic living symbiotic entity, it lives it's own lifecycle and we can only assist with giving it what we think it wants and needs on demand.

Enjoy the lucky moments when all looks perfectly in balance, but this never ever will be something static.


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## Kezzab (26 Jun 2017)

Lol, "zen and the art of aquarium keeping". Wise words.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Jun 2017)

I guess more light could be the answer If light intensity is below the light compensation point of a plant.
In this case the plant will start to die and decompose releasing organics which will provide favourable conditions for algae.
So more light would be needed to restore the plants health and discourage algae. But light is just one aspect of a balancing act between various parameters, so it would rarely provide a solution on it's own.


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## Kezzab (26 Jun 2017)

Thanks for the responses. Quick follow on thought - how helpful is using emersed growth as a guide to nutrient availability? Is it possible emersed growth "out competes" submersed growth for nutrients, so actually deficiencies are felt first by the submersed growth? Emersed growth is happening faster, so presumably the nutrient demand is higher, perhaps "stripping" the water column, particularly in a low tech set up with no additional dosing.

I know that's not the common understanding, so I probably have something backwards.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Jun 2017)

Take a look a Darrel's Duckweed index https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dosing-for-a-barr-non-co2-method-tank.18073/#post-185195


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Jun 2017)

It's something I've considered as well. I only have a couple of plants that are classed as high lighting requirement. Sometimes I wonder when most are dosing EI regimes with probably an abundance of fertiliser and not really needing it whether cranking up the lighting would be beneficial. First sign of algae which is more often than not cleanliness related our initial reaction is to turn lighting down where in some cases if the light loving plants aren't growing at their optimum maybe increasing light might make for a healthier system with plants thriving rather than ticking over. However, obviously that would also mean that cleanliness would have to be right on point. So increasing light and not stepping up the game is going to compound problems further.

I've been using the duck weed index for the last month or so and getting great results. It sort of proves that ferts aren't the issue and points you more in the direction of co2 and husbandry. I've cut my dosing down by about a third and have seen no signs yet of any deficiency issues.


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## Kezzab (26 Jun 2017)

@Tim Harrison thanks - I'd kind of absorbed that post through osmosis without ever having actually read it. I was expecting a 50 page epic, felt a bit short changed! All helpful stuff of course


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## Doubu (27 Jun 2017)

I think you're on the right track. I have come to believe that algae growth is usually an indicator of poor plant growth. Whether your plants need more light, Co2 or nutrients to thrive - that remains the question. Once your plant mass can utilize the nutrients you supply/light you give it/etc., the algae will naturally die off by itself slowly. Of course it may always still be present, but from my experience - in really low amounts. In low-tech set-ups, a key to a great looking scape is choosing the right plants - which are those that block a lot of light and those that aren't demanding with nutrient requirements.


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## zozo (27 Jun 2017)

Kezzab said:


> But please don't tell me I should be adding co2!


Will significantly limit your plant choices.. 

It relates a lot to plant sp. and what their demand is to grow fast.. True aquatics are obviously best addapted to fast submersed growth with the least care. For example Elodea, Egeria, Potamogeton, Nymphaea or Nymphoides are addapted to thrive in low co2 invironments. All have a submersed growform and a semi emersed (floating grow form). If you want them to grow realy fast and flower as well than you need a rather high amount of ferts and light.

Till now i only managed Egeria to flower outdoors in the sunlight.


 

This is also it's semi emersed growform, the initial early year less light submersed growform is much more compact. But as soon as it reaches the surface region where is most of the co2 and gets enough light and temps are high enough it'll flower.




Some of these species especialy the tropicals temperatur is a major factor.. For example i'm growing a Nymphaea Glandulifera in a small aquarium.
This is a south American tropical Lily in demand of a high temperatur, thriving best 25°C to 28°C. Nymphaea are know to depend on fert rich substrates and high light to thrive. But if you grow a tropical one in demand of a higher temp, its grwoth will inhibbit if you keep the temp low. Blyxa is also such a plant, it's a true aquatic and can't grow fully emersed and needs a rather fert rich and high light invironment. But if you plant it to deep and to cool it will be a difficult plant to grow. Without adding extra co2.

So these are the main plant characteristics to consider and research when your goal is a High light planted low tech tank. Plants addapted to grow in rich fertilized low co2 invironments. Than you would need at least a desent plantmass of true aquatics.. In combination with plant sp. that can do both forms and still able to grow relatively fast, some Echinodorus might do well.


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