# CO2 Diffusion Flow Around Tank



## Stitch (21 Aug 2012)

Hi,

I have a large CO2 diffuser below the outflow pump of my internal filter. This does a good job of pushing the tiny CO2 bubbles along the back wall of the tank.

Everything looks good but the trouble is not many bubbles are reaching the front of the tank. Should I be using something to help push these bubbles evenly around the tank? Or isn't this necessary?

If it helps, my tank is a Juwel Rio 400 with internal pump. I believe the pump is good for 1000 litres per hour and the tank is around 400 litres.

Thanks


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## darren636 (21 Aug 2012)

the best thing i have done with my vision 260 is ditch the standard filter. Mine was 1000 lph,  so  yours  really  needs  to  be  bigger.  i  also  have  a second  pump,  taking  my  flow  up  to  around  2000  litres  per  hour.  i  used  to  have  my  co2  diffuser  under  the  jewel  housing,  so  that  bubbles  get  taken  into  the  filter and  then  blown  out  again.


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## ian_m (21 Aug 2012)

You can always get a wakemaker to help water move around in the tank. I have a 3000lph one, from All Pond Solutions in my Vision 180 (180litre), as well as an external JBL 1500lph external filter (and 600lph internal filter). I have put the wavemaker on a timer so only on when CO2 is on.

Works well, all plants are green and not seen any plants "in the corners" dying off due to lack of CO2/nutrients.


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## Iain Sutherland (21 Aug 2012)

Hey stitch, your best and cheapest bet is powerheads.  I would suggest you aim for around 2000lph more than you currently have and having 2 at 1000lph is more flexible than 1 larger one to find the best flow pattern. Hydor powerheads are bullet proof and well priced.  There are lots of threads on the forum worth reading about flow but summarized you need a continuous pattern... back to front, circular etc with no dead spots.


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## darren636 (21 Aug 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Hey stitch, your best and cheapest bet is powerheads.  I would suggest you aim for around 2000lph more than you currently have and having 2 at 1000lph is more flexible than 1 larger one to find the best flow pattern. Hydor powerheads are bullet proof and well priced.  There are lots of threads on the forum about flow but summarized you need a continuous pattern... back to front, circular etc with no dead spots.  [/quote      that's the way to do it.


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## Stitch (28 Aug 2012)

Thanks guys, i'm just now starting to find time to look into this in more detail.

So really the extra flow is to just help circulate the CO2 and EI dosing and not really to do with extra filtering?

At the moment i'm not in a position to change the filter system so will remain with the internal 1,000 lph.

Powerheads sound possible but I have a couple of concerns:
- I would not want to point these at the substrate as it would probably move it and blow the sand around
- I'm planning to grow plants close to the surface in the corners so i'm guessing powerheads would damage the plants if they grow close to them
- Are there any guides for positions? My internal filter is in the back right corner and blows out to the left along the back wall.

As i've mentioned, currently 90% of the CO2 bubbles are along the back wall.

Appreciate any pointers.


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## nry (28 Aug 2012)

Spray bars for the win, less like a torrent for the fish and massively better flow/distribution of CO2 and the water column in general.


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## Stitch (29 Aug 2012)

Thanks for the tip. I've searched a lot about spray bars and they do seem like a good option.

Would 1 long spray bar along the top of the back wall be enough, spraying water towards the front glass?

I'm probably not going to install an external filter system yet so could I run a spray bar from a pump? If so, would you recommend an internal or external one?

Finally, as the guys mention above, i'd probably need around 2,000 lph.


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## nry (29 Aug 2012)

I am going from an external/lily pipes + Koralia to external + spray bar.  Personally, I am presuming that quality of flow is as more important than quantity of flow, and to my eyes, the spray bar gives me a much more even flow than the external/lily pipes/Koralia did as well as being more gentle for the fish.


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Aug 2012)

spraybars along the back are a great option, im just  changing my G6 for a eheim compact.  Its best to always go external as less clutter in the tank.  You can diy spraybars, inlets and outlets from acrylic tube if you like as it looks tidy.  I suggest the eheim 3000 for your needs, again bulletproof pumps with adjustable flow.

I will be taking off my 16/22 outlet and spray bar set up this week if you would like to buy???


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (29 Aug 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> spraybars along the back are a great option, im just  changing my G6 for a eheim compact.  Its best to always go external as less clutter in the tank.  You can diy spraybars, inlets and outlets from acrylic tube if you like as it looks tidy.  I suggest the eheim 3000 for your needs, again bulletproof pumps with adjustable flow.
> 
> I will be taking off my 16/22 outlet and spray bar set up this week if you would like to buy???



Iain. Pm me how much you want for that. Would be ideal for what I need mate.


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## Stitch (29 Aug 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> spraybars along the back are a great option, im just  changing my G6 for a eheim compact.  Its best to always go external as less clutter in the tank.  You can diy spraybars, inlets and outlets from acrylic tube if you like as it looks tidy.  I suggest the eheim 3000 for your needs, again bulletproof pumps with adjustable flow.
> 
> I will be taking off my 16/22 outlet and spray bar set up this week if you would like to buy???



Looks very nice but shipping to Dubai would prob cost 1000x more than it's value.    Once I get sorted i'll DIY one. Perhaps it was your DIY thread I was looking at yesterday.

Regarding the pumps, apologies for being a noob but how are they setup?
If I go external then the pump will most likely be in the cabinet underneath the tank. I see they have an IN and an OUT. Do I just connect tubes to both of these and put them in the tank? Obviously the OUT would be connected to the spray bar but what do you do to the IN? Do you need to connect a filter or something to stop things (namely fish) from disappearing?

The tube lengths would be approximately 2m each (4m total) - is this ok?

Also, a very quick google search showed a number of complaints of noise. How are your experiences?


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Aug 2012)

haha yeah didnt know you were in dubai!! 
set up the same as a external filter, one inlet one outlet.  The length of tubing isnt really an issue its more about the head height ie. the height it has to pump the water up, if its just in your cabinet it shouldnt be an issue unless you have a very tall tank.

Mine arrives today so cant tell you yet about noise, however i asked around on ultimate reef where they are used a lot as a sump return and get great reviews without any issues of noise (the eheim ones that is)


pm'd nath.


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## Stitch (29 Aug 2012)

Cheers Iain,

Any chance of updating your findings on this thread after testing?

Noted your points on the head height. I'll measure and check that out.

Any information on this:


> Obviously the OUT would be connected to the spray bar but what do you do to the IN? Do you need to connect a filter or something to stop things (namely fish) from disappearing?



Does the pump come with anything?


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Aug 2012)

no the pump is just that, a pump.  The eheim 3000 has 16/22 outlets so any inlets/outlets will fit.
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -1017.html
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -1046.html

cheaper options are available... any 16/22.


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## skeletonw00t (29 Aug 2012)

Z


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Aug 2012)

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> Z



?? keeping you up?


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## Stitch (1 Sep 2012)

Hey Iain,

How's that pump working out?

I'm still torn between adding a dedicated external pump to greatly improve circulation or perhaps adding an external filter for improved filtration and slightly improved circulation.

Do you have any thoughts on the Eheim Classic 1500XL (2260)? I believe it's essentially just a large bin inside and can be filled with whatever media. I'm guessing Siporax / Ceramic Rings and plenty of filter pads on top. It states 2,400 litres per hour.


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## Iain Sutherland (1 Sep 2012)

big swop over tomorrow mate, will let you know.

no idea with the classic sorry, however eheim have yet to disappoint me so would guess as long as its suitable for your needs it will deliver what it says on the tin.


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