# Fire Extinguisher Co2 - Illegal?



## Original

Open conversation folks what do you know about the legality of messing with a fire extinguisher?

I've used multiple ones for years with no issues, I recently had a conversation with somebody quite reputable, very reputable might I add. Whom said since it has a kite mark using it for anything other than for its intended purpose is Illegal and dangerous. Also said that me doing it is fine but advising others to do so is completely irresponsible ect ect.

I understand FE's are charged at 50bar pressure and if discharged with locked down handles will possibly fly and damage things, like a rocket. I work with air rifles which are sub 12ft/lb and 200bar in pressure and I know the damage 200 bar can do, with a projectile which weigh 10-25 grains.

Apparently somebody he knows died whilst fitting a reg? something blew off and 'went through his head' I'm sure the terms was. Yes I'm sure fire extinguishers can kill if in the hands of a moron. The only way I can see this happening is is the whole unit 'flew' and hit somebody on the head.

But according to this guy the reg blew off and killed him? I'm dubious.
(also made me aware apple snails are banned from import as they are considered invasive)

Person in question is also close to;
Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association (Oata)

Thoughts please.









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## biffster

i think the snails are just banned of the import list that does not affect the ones that 
are bred here in the uk as for the FE i dont know anything about the laws on that i  am sure you could 
google it and find out


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## ian_m

If "illegal" (which I doubt, references please) what is the purpose of the hole for locking handle closed?

For when used in fixed installations and/or with a regulator/valve.

For it to be illegal, there has to be a law (or statute) defining non fire extinguisher use illegal. As there isn't, using it for non intended purpose is not "illegal".


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## Steve Smith

To be honest, I think that hole is to prevent you squeezing the lever. That's where the safety pin goes to prevent this.

Although yes, why have the two sets of holes...


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## biffster

i agree mr smith if it was for locking the handles out there would only be one hole 
but two holes means they are there to lock the handles open


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## ian_m

They were supplied by my FE supplier so can be locked open for fixed installation. He supplies them for electrical cabinets where the CO2 is plumbed in to auto-discharge in event of fire. Google for fixed installation CO2 and see what this is all about.

The legal thing about FE's, is the cylinders and test dates. In that the cylinders have to be tested, by law every 5 years (or 10 years). You may fill them yourself (pre 2004 had to be certified to do this), build them into rocket chairs, build fighting robots, CO2 in aquariums, even fight a fire etc but as long as the cylinders are within test no laws are being broken.


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## biffster

sorry to jump in here what is the ideal size FE to 
have and how much should i be looking at spending 
on one


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## ian_m

2Kg and £10 for me.

2Kg is standard small size, though there is a RHS* 1Kg CO2 size.

Your local prices might vary. Ebay £25 odd. Try phoning the phone numbers on your FE's at work, that's what I did.

* = Rocking Horse Sh*te


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## Crxgaz

Biffster where abouts are you located as im pretty sure i could spare you a FE for free if your not far from hull.


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## biffster

i am way up here in the Northeast


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## Andy Thurston

Anybody removing or adding parts to a fire extinguisher at work would probably breaching several health and safety laws. Ive only heard of one fe killing someone and that was badly handled. The potential for serious injury, or even death, is definately there


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## NattyAntlers

I would think that any laws would relate to the filling and servicing.
So would a regulator flying off an FE be more powerful due to the tube inside than flying off a 2kg Co2 bottle sold for aquatic use?
I cant see much of a difference.


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## ian_m

Big clown said:


> Anybody removing or adding parts to a fire extinguisher at work would probably breaching several health and safety laws.


They are not health and safety laws....They are health and safety regulations, guidance and recommendations.

The one most relevant to us is "Safe Use of Gas Cylinders"
www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/safusgc.pdf

The are lots of regulations to do with design, manufacture and filling of gas cylinders which is where generally the problems and dangers have occurred.

As for use in aquarium CO2 source, use of a Fire Extinguisher is not an issue, provided the safe usage of pressurised gas cylinder recommendations are followed. Main ones are securing the cylinder and not using beyond date. (whoops must secure mine against being knocked over).

In fact one of my local fish shops uses a 45Kg Fire Extinguisher for their CO2 source. I commented on this and health and safety had inspected and was deemed OK. They were more worried about water spillage and slip hazard than the CO2 cylinder. However they noted cylinder was secured to wall and only two named people (who had been instructed on its operation) were allowed to work, operate and use the cylinder. HSE not bothered as rules had been followed.


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## Andy Thurston

Incident report for nz fe death

http://www.taproot.com/content/wp-content/uploads/legacy/CO2-extinguisher%20Incident-2.pdf


And health and safety officers dont do anything till someone gets hurt and most of the time they just give reccomendations

Most accidents are caused by people being stupid


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## ian_m

If you search HSE site for cylinder accidents, most have occurred due to improper training (or none) for cylinder filling and/or illicit cylinder filling. Couldn't find anything on accidents during "normal" use, as it appears people are aware of the dangers and are behaving sensibly.


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## Andy Thurston

I worked at a firm where the horn was removable so fe could be used in a eletrical cabinet too. we were told to plug it into cabinet squeeze handles and put pin back in and walk away. It gives you more time to get out. 
All auto drench systems i've seen have been pub type cylinders and larger, but these were larger systems. Most new systems use nitrogen


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## OllieNZ

I don't see the issue myself. They contain no more pressure than a pub cylinder or welding bottle and considerably less than the nitrogen bottles we have at work (200 bar) and once the tap on a bottle is open its no different to the handle being locked open. As long as you leave the pin in the closed position while removing the horn/fitting the regulator there shouldn't(allows for murphy's law ) be any issues unless you have faulty equipment.


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## ojustaboo

My local fire extinguisher company sold me a new/refurbished 2kg  fire extinguisher minus the horn specifically for use in my aquarium.

The one I took in was too old to refill without being pressure tested and while they were happy to do so, I needed it urgently hence they sold me a new/refurbished one.

They happily refill it for £8

I'm sure if it was illegal, they would not have done so


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## ian_m

Result. A happy camper & happy plants all round.


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## geoffbark

I've been trying to recommend to people for years not to use an FE. There is no reasonable need. 

Health and safety would not recommend modifying for our use. Although not illegal to do so  they should only be used for putting out fires. 

If the only argument is cost then for me that is not a valid one. 

Also I can't for the life of me understand why people spend hundreds on glass ware, filters etc for aesthetics then plonk a red modified hunk of steel in view. 

Just my view


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## ian_m

You can buy cylinders for aquatic CO2 use, but cost £125 for same as £10 fire extinguisher and £20-£30 to refill. Same regulations in design, testing and filling apply, same as a fire extinguisher, the pressurised gas regulations.

Health and safety is for business only. If health and safety regulations applied in a home, wooden floors and carpets would be banned, kettles with leads and even slippers......

Most people keep theirs in a cupboard and in not in view.


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## Rich Jackson

I must have a good bottle supplier? I get a 14lb bottle of Co2 from a local pub gas supplier. paid no deposit and get it refilled for £10!


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## ToPlant

I agree with Ian m; a guy selling these in a specialist shop Is going to say the official line as he doesn't want to get sued etc, but its your own home and even if it was illegal I'd still use a fe as its far too expensive with other methods 

But that's just me lol


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## wisiu

Hello Guys


I am wondering what is your pressure on the high pressure gauge? I have re-filled my FE and it is a little bit over 1000 psi, as far I remember it was around 800 psi when I bought my FE, is that still safe ? The scale on my reg is up to 2500 psi but it does not specify when it too high.


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## ian_m

Use the graph below to work out your cylinder pressure vs temperature. So 1000psi (@68% fill) is about 80°F (26°C), so its warm and fine.

I assume you had it filled by a competemt person, so will only be filled to 68% volume.


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## wisiu

It was filled by mr fizz in Uxbridge so I assume they know what to do, thank you for help,


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## NattyAntlers

wisiu said:


> It was filled by mr fizz in Uxbridge so I assume they know what to do, thank you for help,


 

Will be looking for a reputable company near to me to refill the FE I have in the future may I ask how much it cost you?


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## wisiu

NattyAntlers said:


> Will be looking for a reputable company near to me to refill the FE I have in the future may I ask how much it cost you?


£10 for 2KG FE so not too bad, you need to leave FE with them, I left mine on Saturday and picked up Monday afternoon,


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## NattyAntlers

Thanks wisiu


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