# APS 90 litre



## Derek Tweedie (30 Dec 2012)

Hi guys Thought I would start a new journal since I got a nice tank for Christmas. The tank is an All Pond Solutions 90 litre.





Note to people looking at getting one of these put the filter in the cabinet before you place the tank as it doesn't fit through two doors,luckily the tank was empty.

SPECS
APS 1000 lph external
5x25 watt T5 (although it says 4 on the website.)
Here is what I put in it,
10kg of TGM Blue Stone
Redmoor root 
2 pices of Sumatra Drift Root
12.5kg of Limpopo sand.

Here are a couple of shots. Comments and suggestions welcome.







I'm unsure of the two stones on the left hand side. The one at the back to square to me.
The piece of wood on the left should be deeper in the sand too. I may try and get more elevation on the right hand side too, but I  will wait till I get some feedback.

Trying to make it look like a tree with the roots breaking through the rocks.

I've been looking at getting a CO2 system and I have been looking at this
TMC expert co2 sets | UK Aquatic Plant Society
But I don't know how long it would last?

Prospective Plant List
Marsilea hirsuta
Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow'(for the Redmoor)
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya' (for the base of the Redmoor)
Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae
And some moss of some kind for the Sumatra wood.

What do you guys think?


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## DTL (30 Dec 2012)

These are nice tanks, I have the 4' model.
I think you might be missing the brackets that support the lights against the top rim per the pic below from APS web page.
These should make the supports much more robust and keep them square.






Ref the hardscape, can I suggest that you maybe stack some of the rocks against each other to give a higher, more 3D structure, leaving more room for plants in the substrate.
Plant list sounds like a good start, I'd maybe add a couple of bunch plants like rotala, etc.
Cheers


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## Derek Tweedie (30 Dec 2012)

Thanks DTL I will get onto them about those brackects. I have found that the customer service which I have received from them has been absolutely excellent.

I have some totals in another tank which I can put in the tank at the moment.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 Dec 2012)

Nice Christmas present! Sock and boxer shorts for me again  What do you mean the filter doesn't fit through the doors, how do you get it out to maintain? From inside the cabinet?
I've seen a few posts about APS tanks and cabinets and they seem to have a few strange quirks!


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## Derek Tweedie (31 Dec 2012)

There is a support in the middle for the doors to shut to. I guess I will find out in a few months time how easy it is to clean. Fingers crossed it shouldn't be to hard.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 Dec 2012)

So how did you get it in in the first place?


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## Derek Tweedie (31 Dec 2012)

The top of the cabinet doesn't have a base just a lip for the tank to sit in. So I put it in before I placed the tank on it.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 Dec 2012)

Hmmm another strange quirk for APS tanks! Something's not been thought through here  I saw another thread where the pipework was a non standard diameter and need reducers to make things fit. Obviously there was a meeting where someone suggested making pipe work that didn't fit the vast majority of aquarium products and a filter you cant' get out the cabinet while the tank was on full of water and no one picked up on it!

Apologies for that hijack  Have you decided on your plants yet?


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## Derek Tweedie (31 Dec 2012)

I have its on the first post,but I forgot to add Blyxa. I have moved some of the stuff around and raised the back right corner up. Will put up a pic once the dust settles.


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## Derek Tweedie (1 Jan 2013)

A little bit of shifting again last night




Might swap the two stones on the left what do you guys think?


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## Westyggx (1 Jan 2013)

Derek Tweedie said:


> There is a support in the middle for the doors to shut to. I guess I will find out in a few months time how easy it is to clean. Fingers crossed it shouldn't be to hard.



I don't have an APS tank but I have recently just had to change my cabinet as my filter was inaccessible from the front due to the same reason. I would advise changing ASAP so you can maintain easier.


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## Westyggx (1 Jan 2013)

Derek Tweedie said:


> A little bit of shifting again last night
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks lots better, remove the left stone I think.


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## mvasingh (1 Jan 2013)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Hmmm another strange quirk for APS tanks! Something's not been thought through here  I saw another thread where the pipework was a non standard diameter and need reducers to make things fit. Obviously there was a meeting where someone suggested making pipe work that didn't fit the vast majority of aquarium products and a filter you cant' get out the cabinet while the tank was on full of water and no one picked up on it!
> 
> Apologies for that hijack  Have you decided on your plants yet?


 
I emailed them about their flimsey filter intake and spray bar. I did not get a responce that suggested they were going to improve them!


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## Derek Tweedie (29 Jan 2013)

Been a while since I posted here, Due to lack of funds I have had to wait to get my plants,which should be here in the next couple days . I emailed APS about the missing parts and they sent me out some without complaint. 

I have had the tank running for a while now and put some plants in to tic me over till my order comes. Put a small portion of Pogostemon erectus in the middle back only a couple of stems though. On the back right I have a cluster of Rotala rotundifolia which has just been trimmed. In front that I have my tiger lotus, I have found that you can remove the plant from the bulb so I have about five plants now. I will add a pic when my light comes on.

Got three Ottos in at the moment plus two Amanos and two RCS. The reason there are only two RCS is trying to get some nice young from them both are very red. going to add more Ottos and Amanos think I will be happy with about ten of each. Just to keep things tidy.

Almost forgot to add my plant list, its been fiddled a bit.
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya'
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Fissidens fontanusfontanus
Vallisneria spiralis 'Tiger'
Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow'
Anubias bonsai

Comments and suggestions always welcome


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## Derek Tweedie (1 Feb 2013)

Got my plants yesterday with no complications. The Vallis tiger wasn't in stock so they added nana instead. Got a few shots for you guys.




The Rotala has had a couple of trims trying to get it bushy.

I think a lot of these plants were grown emersed. The Crypt and Hydrocotyle looked a bit funny



I think I would have been there all day if I was to plant each individual plant. So I separated the pot into five.




I managed to get nine plants out of one crypt pot. The bonsai is bigger than I expected but I can live with it.




I take the Java fern will eventually turn to the light it looks to be all over the place at the moment.




Just a wee side view shot, you can see the Vallis behind the wood just of centre. Dunno if its getting enough light, I went for a few species that I haven't kept  before (Fissidens fontanus) and species I have failed at growing in the past (Vallis Sp.)




Here's the full tank shot.


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## ceg4048 (1 Feb 2013)

Are those bubbles on the far left the CO2? The furthest away from any plant? Where it all just evaporates out the window?

Wouldn't it be better to have the CO2 on the far right, the closest to the most number of plants, with the bubbles getting trapped below and having more time to dissolve in the vicinity of the plants?

Also, the spraybar flow will probably soon be disrupted by the Ferns and Vallis as they grow up, so it might have been better to have it either mounted on the back wall or on the left wall. 

Also, you have the heater out in full view which will annoy most viewers. Why not move it to the right corner behind the ferns.

Were you worried about whether Vallis has enough light? I would personally worry more about whether Vallis had enough CO2, then it will not care how much light it has.

Cheers,


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## Derek Tweedie (2 Feb 2013)

Thanks Ceg. That's just an air pump I had some surface scum so I used it for disturbance.  I see your point with the spray bar which is no great deal to shift, water change day tomorrow so I can shift it then.

I currently don't have a dosing regime was thinking about trying EI. Also was gonna try jack-rythms carbonated water trick to see if that had an affect on the plants.

Still undecided


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## jack-rythm (2 Feb 2013)

Derek Tweedie said:


> Thanks Ceg. That's just an air pump I had some surface scum so I used it for disturbance.  I see your point with the spray bar which is no great deal to shift, water change day tomorrow so I can shift it then.
> 
> I currently don't have a dosing regime was thinking about trying EI. Also was gonna try jack-rythms carbonated water trick to see if that had an affect on the plants.
> 
> Still undecided


It's actually Takashi amanos technique not mine but cheers for the credit  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## ceg4048 (2 Feb 2013)

There is absolutely no point using an air pump while the lights are on. The bubbles will degas CO2 and whatever oxygen the plants manage to produce with the reduce CO2 level will also be degassed, so you will defeat the purpose of CO2. Use the pump at night if you must.

If you don't have a dosing regime you are advised to get one, quick.

Cheers,


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## jack-rythm (2 Feb 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> There is absolutely no point using an air pump while the lights are on. The bubbles will degas CO2 and whatever oxygen the plants manage to produce with the reduce CO2 level will also be degassed, so you will defeat the purpose of CO2. Use the pump at night if you must.


I know its pointless using an air pump but could you explain why its only pointless using it when the lights are on? I know that they dont do what people belive tey do but I have never looked into the reasonings


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (2 Feb 2013)

jack-rythm said:


> I know its pointless using an air pump but could you explain why its only pointless using it when the lights are on? I know that they dont do what people belive tey do but I have never looked into the reasonings


 
they de gas co2 because of surface agitation.At night they are useful for the same reason, when plants stop uptake of co2 and take in O2.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (2 Feb 2013)

as well as getting rid of surface scum.

I don't use one, and adopt a better co2 routine, 2 hours off before lights out means I can be safe to run at higher levels.
Blxya clearly loves it, due to the amount of O2 bubbles coming from them 

I run my co2 at Lime/yellow border, and my fish seem more comfortable than if I run it at mid green. Due to oxygen output being optimal at higher co2 injection.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (2 Feb 2013)

The tanks looking great so far. I reckon it will also crying out for ferts and co2/liquid carbon real soon! 90 ltr is a fair volume to be trying to get away with using carbonated water on I reckon. The air stone running through the day is going to drive what little co2 you have off by breaking the water surface and lifting the co2 out the water. There should be enough o2 produced by the plants while the lights are on anyway. Maybe try just getting a gentle movement on the water surface with the filter to break up the surface scum.


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Feb 2013)

@ jack
air pumps work by causing surface disruption so gas exchange increases, part of that gas exchange is your precious co2 disapearing into your house rather than in your tank where you are paying to have it. Most dont inject when lights are off, so no point with lights on


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## jack-rythm (2 Feb 2013)

thanks for clarifying it up. I know it degasses the tank from co2 but what if you had no co2 in the tank? would it still be pointless?


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## krazypara3165 (2 Feb 2013)

I run an air stone 24/7. I uunderstand it will degass the co2 but i run extra to compensate. I just like it running in case ajy problems arise wih the co2 to keep the fish safe.


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## Derek Tweedie (2 Feb 2013)

I have removed The air pump completely now.

Need advice on a CO2  system I don't have the cash at the moment to go for a pressurized system are there any others on the market which are fairly good?

Thanks again guys.


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Feb 2013)

others on the market - yep
any good - nope 

your best bet without pressurized is liquid carbon products.


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## Derek Tweedie (2 Feb 2013)

Cheers Iain will look into the most cost effective LC think it would have to be a fairly large bottle to last a while


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Feb 2013)

no probs, some of our sponsors sell own brands which are far cheaper or have a read here.Glutaraldehyde | UK Aquatic Plant Society 
its very cost effective but does require care.


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## ceg4048 (2 Feb 2013)

> I run an air stone 24/7. I uunderstand it will degass the co2 but i run extra to compensate. I just like it running in case ajy problems arise wih the co2 to keep the fish safe.


I reckon that by a vast margin, the majority of things that go wrong with CO2 is the issue of not having enough CO2. An indication of this is the number of people who complain about having incurred CO2 related algae and plants disintegrating. There is much less often a CO2 system failure which results in an overdose, but there are some, such as a solenoid failing in the open position (however the typical solenoid failure is occurs in the closed position).

The things that result in having too much CO2 is that related to the hobbyist adding too much. This fault mode can occur via simple inattention or by deliberately setting the needle valve too high, which is what we are encouraging ourselves to do, which doesn't seem rational to me.

I really don't see how adding a higher injection rate to compensate for gas loss results in a net increase in the level of safety. Is there not also a reasonable probability of a 24/7 air system failure, such as connection, hose leaks or motor failure? I think yes, and any air system failure will have more severe consequences due to the extra gas compensation.

Since adding air complicates CO2 availability, one also incurs a higher probability of CO2 related plant failures. So I don't see why this added burden should be something we offer to the inexperienced. As Nate says, CO2 injection techniques should be practiced, monitored and improved on by the hobbyist. Avoiding overzealous lighting to reduce the CO2 demand and better attention to flow distribution, which increases efficiency thereby reducing the need for high injection rates should be the objective. I believe that is a better path for lowered health risks and a better path to a more successful tank.

Cheers,


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## Derek Tweedie (2 Feb 2013)

Thanks again Iain that is a definite cheaper option. I think I will give this a bash but will only dose 2ml due to the shrimps in the tank.


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## Derek Tweedie (7 Feb 2013)

Just an update people I downloaded the Tropica app on my wifes iPad anybody used it? I have found it quite good sorta gives you a to do list. I have found that it is helped me in these early stages and would recommend it to any less experienced members like myself.

I'm still waiting on the delivery of the Glutaraldehyde but i'm coping and so are the plants.

The Mi Oya has started to sprout out new leaves and the have such a lovely colour to them and I hope they stay like that. I added two other species of crypts which I had in another tank. One of them is wendetii 'Tropica' and I will dig out the other name at some point. 

Noticed too that my RCS is berried which i'm looking forward to see what comes out. I have also added some CRS which are at about grade B and A. I will see how they get on and in the future add some grade S and try to get a colony going.


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## krazypara3165 (7 Feb 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> I reckon that by a vast margin, the majority of things that go wrong with CO2 is the issue of not having enough CO2. An indication of this is the number of people who complain about having incurred CO2 related algae and plants disintegrating. There is much less often a CO2 system failure which results in an overdose, but there are some, such as a solenoid failing in the open position (however the typical solenoid failure is occurs in the closed position).
> 
> The things that result in having too much CO2 is that related to the hobbyist adding too much. This fault mode can occur via simple inattention or by deliberately setting the needle valve too high, which is what we are encouraging ourselves to do, which doesn't seem rational to me.
> 
> ...



Cheers ceg, id never thought of it this way. I only added an air stone as the discus seemed to breathe more rapidly without it. Im reconfiguring my co2 setup on sunday as im in all day so i will remive the air stone and see what effect it has on the fish and re calibrate my co2 to compensate.


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## ceg4048 (7 Feb 2013)

Yeah mate, review your entire distribution configuration and lower the injection rate. A lower injection rate might mean that you need to turn the gas on earlier. Maybe you need a higher flow rate. Hobbyists with high finnage fish often worry about the fish having to work harder to swim but that actually makes the fish more fit. Of course if the fish hide away to avoid the flow then that's not good either. As I mentioned, putting the air pump on at night is fine. CO2 is very complicated and I think people grossly underestimate it's level of difficulty.

Cheers,


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## krazypara3165 (7 Feb 2013)

I for one underestimated it! i think ive got the flow nailed though. X2 2000lph cannisters and the tanks only 285l. Ill have a tinker on sunday and see what happens.


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## dw1305 (8 Feb 2013)

Hi all,


jack-rythm said:


> . I know it degasses the tank from co2 but what if you had no co2 in the tank? would it still be pointless?





krazypara3165 said:


> I only added an air stone as the discus seemed to breathe more rapidly without it. Im reconfiguring my co2 setup on sunday as im in all day so i will remive the air stone and see what effect it has on the fish and re calibrate my co2 to compensate.


There is a huge difference in level between adding CO2 and it diffusing in via gas exchange from the atmosphere.
If we aren't adding CO2 it is better to have as much gas exchange as possible in both terms of CO2 and O2 levels. Wet and dry trickle filters are most effective for doing this, but an air stone, or lots of flow, all work.
Have a look here: "Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium" - <plecoplanet: Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium>, I wrote it for plec keepers, but the principles are the same for any fish keeping.


ceg4048 said:


> CO2 is very complicated and I think people grossly underestimate it's level of difficulty.


 I'll have a go at this, but it may need some corrections:
*CO2*
CO2 makes up 0.0355% of the atmosphere (~355ppm).
When CO2 is dissolved in water a fraction of it forms carbonic acid H2CO3 (CO2 (aq) + H2O « H2CO3 (aq)) and it really is a small fraction, about 1.3 x10-3 of the (so just over 1/1000) of the dissolved CO2. We also have the carbonate - CO2 equilibria (K1 & K2), when carbonate buffering is present in the water:

K1 = _H_2_CO3_ (aq) « _H_+ (aq) + _HCO_3- (aq).
K2 = _HCO_3- (aq)_ « H_+ (aq) + _CO_32- (aq)

*Adding CO2*
Our drop checkers use both the proportion of carbonic acid and the carbonate equilibria to give us a measure of pH and CO2 level, from the pH/ kH/ CO2 chart




<ShrimpNow !!! - Water Parameters: Understanding pH, GH, KH and others>

*Drop Checker*
When we add CO2 this means that the carbonate equilibrium is not now with ambient levels of CO2, but with the amount of CO2 that we are adding. It is the depression of pH (caused by the small proportion of H2CO3) that is causing the bromothymol blue pH indicator <Bromothymol blue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia> in the 4dKH solution in the drop checker to change colour (to green or yellow). When we stop adding CO2 the CO2/carbonate equilibria will re-equilibrate with atmospheric CO2 levels, H2CO3 levels will fall, and the pH will rise, and the drop checker turn back to blue (>pH7.6). The pH will rise above pH7 due to the alkalinity (carbonate buffering) of the 4dKH solution in the drop checker.

*Natural CO2 levels in tank water*
The natural level of CO2 in water will depend upon the size of the gas exchange surface, temperature of the water, pH and the balance between plants and animals during the photo-period. If we look at water with low carbonate buffering we are looking at about 0.5ppm CO2 at 25oC, (CO2 details in <CHEMICAL FEATURES OF WATER>). If we have a high fish load, a heavily planted tank and a small gas exchange surface, levels may rise to 10 - 15ppm before lights on. In the same scenario, during the photo-period, when the plants are photosynthesising, CO2 levels are likely to be um-measurably small. I won't talk any more about dissolved oxygen (O2), but the details are here (they are different links): <CHEMICAL FEATURES OF WATER>.
​If we have very efficient gas exchange it helps both ways by reducing the variation in CO2 and O2 levels, it is a win win situation.​​cheers Darrel​


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## Derek Tweedie (16 Feb 2013)

I've started dosing Glutaraldehyde, following Alastairs


dose 1ml per 10 gal and on water change day dose 5ml per 10 gal rule.

Tank is 19.79 UKG so will be dosing 2ml, would it be dangerous to dose 2.5ml


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## LondonDragon (16 Feb 2013)

Derek Tweedie said:


> Tank is 19.79 UKG so will be dosing 2ml, would it be dangerous to dose 2.5ml


Mine is 125l and I dose 10ml of EC perday without any issues!


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## Derek Tweedie (16 Feb 2013)

Thanks Paulo I might push the boat out to 5ml. I will keep an eye on the shrimps to make sure it doesn't harm them.


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## Derek Tweedie (2 Apr 2013)

So I better update been ages. Since my last update we have moved house and it needed some work done to it so the tank was neglected for a week or so. But here goes, since I wasn't doing regular maintenance I got some BBA but I started dosing 30ML of Glut which killed it right of.I added 12 Diamond Tetras as it a fish I have always wanted to keep, I dunno if the tank is too bright for them as they seem quite skittish or they just haven't settled in properly. So here is some shots of what it looks like now.





The FTS 



2 of the Diamond Tetras



The right hand side



The left hand side



moss growth



Just a wee macro shot of a small RCS.

Comments always welcome and hope you guys like the shots.


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## tim (2 Apr 2013)

rcs chilling on a bed of fissidens, nice mate.


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## Derek Tweedie (5 Apr 2013)

While I was adding the background to the tank I noticed the Pogostemon erectus's root system which is massive, then at closer inspection I noticed that its also growing on top of the sand creeping down to the middle. Would trimming the roots cause much damage to the plant if they get to far to the front?


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## ceg4048 (5 Apr 2013)

Hello,
		 I would trim as much away as soon as possible. Mass tangle of roots does nothing but traps dirt which allows organic debris to collect and rot. Maybe vacuum the sediment in the vicinity during a large water change.

Cheers,


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## Derek Tweedie (6 Apr 2013)

Thanks Ceg I will trim it when the lights come on, as you can see it is getting a bit messy


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## Derek Tweedie (16 Apr 2013)

Hi folks just a little update I have taken out the Rotala and added more crypts what do you guys think?


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