# Tom's ADA 45P - new design



## Tom (13 Aug 2016)

Hi everyone,

I thought it was about time, having not had a tank running for over 5 years, that I started a new journal. I'm now starting to settle into my sleepy town in far southern (and ridiculously hot) Japan, and managed to source a few bits and pieces. I have an ADA 45P on order from a shop in the city, but managed to get everything else within an hour of here. The filter and in-line solenoid were the only exceptions, which I bought online due to price.

Here's what I have so far. The front shelves slide across to reveal the other side (where the CO2 is installed). It's not an aquarium stand, but I've strengthened it with metal brackets. I also attached a wider base underneath for added stability in case of earthquakes (a case of when, not if). It's just a shame I couldn't match the colour, but at least it's practical. The stand itself is also 55cm wide and a little deeper than the tank, again in order to aid stability.






I'm always curious to see where people locate their tanks, so here's a shot in-situ in my kitchen. I really wanted to have it in my living/bedroom, but the choice of flooring (tatami matting) made it too risky with spillages.









I've also decided to try the Do!Aqua CO2 kit (plus the in-line solenoid), but I'm a little worried that the tiny bottle won't last the week! The <60cm aquaria in the ADA Gallery up north mostly seemed to be using similar-sized bottles, but I'd imagine with the amount of maintenance those tanks get, it's no problem switching them over.





The LEDs also seem pretty strong to my eyes. I'm not sure what the ADA Aquaskys are like (other than being nearly 3x the price), but this one claims 750 lumens (if that means anything - I've not used LEDs before). Any guidance would be great 

Substrate-wise, I'm going for a 3 litre bag each of Amazonia normal and powder. Under that I'm thinking of trying some small lava rocks I found for plants at the 100yen (70p) shop. It looks just like Power Sand to me! Also good for tying some moss to, if people laugh at my daft idea. Again, input appreciated. Will it be of any use under there?

As for ferts, I bought some Brighty K and Step 1. My best successes to date used this combo - not that other cheaper methods don't work, just that I couldn't make them work!!

Anyway, more updates when I go to collect the tank. It might take a few days due to it being the Obon holiday weekend now.

Tom


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## dean (13 Aug 2016)

What's your plains for the scape and its inhabitants 
Any local native species to be used ?


Regards
Dean


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## Tom (13 Aug 2016)

Hi Dean,

I'm planning a relatively classic-style nature aquarium. Think Amano's original book series. As for native species, I honestly don't know yet what is local to here. I saw some Japanese Rice Fish on sale for about 40p each one of the local shops, and they are a definite possibility. Something nice and understated for a rather 'full' scape. Potentially some tasteful guppies too, but will decided fish later. Bound to have some Amano Shrimp (called Yamato Shrimp here) at some point too.

As for plants, I'm thinking about some narrow Microsorum sparingly mixed with Bolbitis on the wood, and then some moss and Crypts for the shaded areas. Probably a lawn of HC, Riccia (?) and hairgrass, and a background of stems and the odd tall, thin Crypt. Undecided really, but I like the sound of that.

I've never really tried stem plants before - I've always opted for slower-growing stuff. 

Tom


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## Nelson (13 Aug 2016)

Hi Messy ,
What are the costs for equipment,soil etc like out there ?.
Just curious.


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## Tom (13 Aug 2016)

To give an answer in pounds is rather difficult given the current situation, but here's roughly what I paid for a few bits. This is all plus 8% sales tax, as they don't add it into the price until the end. 

ADA 45P ¥7500
Baby Eheim Classic with the full media set ¥8000
Amazonia normal ¥1500
Amazonia powder ¥2800 (!!!)
Do!Aqua CO2 kit ¥9500
ADA ferts each ¥1500
LED Light Unit I don't know the brand's reputation, but it's common here (GEX) ¥4900. The ADA Aquasky 45cm is ¥13333 so I passed that up. 
Most shops (many supermarkets too!) have lots of pretty nice thin and twisty driftwood (+/-20cm) for around ¥600 each. 

ADA is still a top end company, but by no means extortionate compared with decent competition. It's a commonly stocked brand at least to a certain extent in most pet shops. Note I had to order a 45P, but they had 60cm, 30cm cubes and 120Ps in stock. Also remember wages here are a little lower than the UK.


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## AndyMcD (13 Aug 2016)

Hi Tom, I, for one, am really interested to hear about your aquascaping experience in Japan. I'd even appreciate seeing photos of a Japanese LFS! ADA are such an influential company, but it would be interesting to hear more about what's happening in their home market. I love Japanese and Zen gardens. Japan is a country I'd love to visit. Andy


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## alto (13 Aug 2016)

Thanks for the pricing details - cheaper in Japan than Canada! (even that Aquasky converts to half the Canada price   & Do!Aqua is no longer imported)

Sounds a fantastic project (& adventure!)

More photos of your apartment please (if you don't mind  )


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## Nelson (13 Aug 2016)

I realise they may earn less etc,but really good prices.Then the wood and fish seem really cheap as well.
Guess we'll always lag behind with the prices of stuff in the UK.
Sorry to go off topic .
Looking forward to see what you come up with .


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## dean (13 Aug 2016)

Biggest Problem with prices is transportation
To be cost effective they need to ship full container loads and were not just round the corner 


Regards
Dean


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## Tom (14 Aug 2016)

AndyMcD - It's a fascinating country and you really need to visit  As for the Japanese LFS, try to imagine the majority as being very cramped, messy, zero health and safety and with very little organisation as to what goes on what shelf...! The exception being this morning where I found one that looked very much like what we might find in the UK (with Asian variety products). 

alto - that's pretty much my entire apartment, with the exception of bathroom and toilet! Not much more to see!

As I just mentioned, I visited another 'local' (one hour away) shop today to have a look. They had the standard small-ish range of ADA/Do!Aqua goods (ferts, limited glassware, CO2 stuff, random and extortionate CO2 connector bits, AquaJournals etc etc.), but also ADA's own range of plants. They look very similar to the Tropica ones grown in jelly, and cost anything from 1000 yen (£7.50?) upwards. There were also a couple of wabi kusa at 1900 yen each, and I'm very tempted to go for this option for my background stem plants. Just looking forward to getting the call to say my aquarium has arrived, and then we can play!

Tom


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## AndyMcD (14 Aug 2016)

Thanks For the reply Tom.

Please don't take photos of the messy LFS. Too much for my OCD!

Very interesting about the Wabi Kusa in the better LFS. I've not seen this in the UK yet (but many times on the ADA videos).



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## Tom (14 Aug 2016)

Here's a couple more, alto. If it were up to me I'd change the furniture, but it belongs to my employer who provides my accommodation - so it stays for now!


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## Stu Worrall (14 Aug 2016)

Good to see you back Tom and looking forward to seeing your tank. Will you need a cooler there with those high temps?


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## Tom (14 Aug 2016)

Hey Stu - I'm really not sure yet. I've let the thermometer sit just on the tank stand for a couple of days, and during the day my room seems to be averaging 28-34, depending on whether I'm using the air-con or not. Nighttime is probably around 26-28. Water temperature I assume would be a couple degrees lower. Will see how it goes, but for winter I'll definitely be getting a heater. Houses here get very cold with no insulation.


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## Stu Worrall (14 Aug 2016)

That's discus territory! Odd how there's no insulation as you'd think that would keep you cooler in the summer


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## Tom (14 Aug 2016)

My apartment is actually made of maybe 8" of solid concrete, which is much more 'permanent' than the majority around here. The standard new build has a concrete foundation, wooden frame, and pre-formed plastic-type wall panels (often moulded to look convincingly like bricks). Much easier to repair than concrete or other permanent structures after an earthquake - just swap a panel or put a new beam in. There's also no real property market here either, as everyone (with a few very rural exceptions) rents. Houses are expected to last 20-30 years and are just flattened and rebuilt. No insulation, double glazing, central heating etc etc.

Just checked the thermometer. At 8am and having not run the A/C last night, we're at 32 degrees already... I've just filled a large tuppaware pot of water and will keep an eye on the temperature.


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## Franks (16 Aug 2016)

Someone's nicked the legs off ya chair mate..?

I'll get me coat...

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## ajadcock (16 Aug 2016)

Taxi! Taxi for franks! 

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## Tom (20 Aug 2016)

Yesterday while at work I had a phone call from the aquarium shop - my 45P arrived  So, I drove into the city after work to collect it. I also picked up 6 additional cylinders for the CO2 kit. I thought it was a pack of 3, but it turned out to be 6 for around £2 each  Also, I appear to have made friends with the shop owner. He saw me looking at this month's AquaJournal, and gave me 4 back issues for free (between 1998 and 2004 - periods/styles I actually prefer to today's!), along with a large poster of the huge NA display in Portugal   Happy day 





I do wonder whether they've undersold on the Aquasoil though...! I might build it up with some cheaper clay substrates from the local supermarket(!). I do also have the lava stones though for the base layer.









Here's a shot of the light unit, too. Mainly white, with some blue and red. Each colour has iyes individual switch.





Tom


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## alto (20 Aug 2016)

Juris only used a 9l bag Amazonia + some Tropica Powder in this 60P (August 16 FB link)

What a nice shop guy


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## Tim Harrison (20 Aug 2016)

Nice journal so far; a good read. Looking forward to seeing your 45P scaped


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## Nelson (20 Aug 2016)

Happy days .


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## Doubu (20 Aug 2016)

Holy crud... Those refill bottles are that cheap?! They cost an arm and a leg here in Canada ==

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## Tom (21 Aug 2016)

Yeah, well I suppose because of their weight they are a pain to ship over from Japan.


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## Tom (21 Aug 2016)

I decided today to pour in the Aquasoil to see how it looks for depth. As I have it here, it's currently 3cm at the front and 8cm at the back. I'm tempted to brush the 'powder' to the front to increase the depth to 5cm, and then get some more 'regular' type (about £10 here) to top up the rear.






I also had a quick play with the single piece of wood that I own (and actually brought over from the UK!!) I'm not convinced with using it, although I'd like to, but here are some ideas. I'm leaning towards the position in the last images - although it maybe won't be quite so dominant once planted and grown in.













My current preference:


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## Tom (21 Aug 2016)

I think I've just found a layout I prefer - although I actually used it in a Mini M a few years ago. Maybe I'll get away with it if it's planted differently


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## tim (21 Aug 2016)

Wood looks good in the second image, a lot will depend on rocks/ plant choice though, following with interest Tom.


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## Alexander Belchenko (21 Aug 2016)

Last one looks like a lizard looking upward 

I guess you need some rocks to add some height to hardscape.


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## zozo (21 Aug 2016)

Interesting piece of wood.. Kinda looks good in all positions so far..  I guess knowing with what and how it will be planted, will determine it's best position.


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## Tom (21 Aug 2016)

Thanks for your comments. Alexander, you're right about the height. Before, my 'scapes have always been hardscape-heavy and with a sand foreground. With this one, I wanted to use plants more to create the shape. Hopefully, the wood will not be so prominent when it's all filled in, but I've just taken a couple more shots in another position. If I use this layout, I will probably use some small moss-covered stones to support the wood, and a few more along the border between the fore and mid-ground. I'd like to try to blend it as much as possible, and have a smooth transition from front to back.

Here's the latest. As I say, I've used this style before, but the planting will be quite different.





This probably won't make sense to anyone (or indeed to myself), but I've started playing with sticks... 





I'd like the foreground to be predominantly HC, blending in with Hairgrass, Moss and possibly some Riccia as it moves backwards. In the middle I'll probably go for a mix of Crypts, stems and moss. At the back I'd like to use 2-3 Wabi-Kusa, along with some taller, thin plants. Undecided as yet. 

The foreground to mid-ground line will probably follow the shadow under the wood, where Moss and Crypts would be fine. 

Tom


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## Daveslaney (21 Aug 2016)

Think it looks way better stood up like that,But thats maybe because there is no other hardscape in the tank yet?


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## CooKieS (21 Aug 2016)

Hi! 2nd or 4th choice looks best to me...

Will you add rocks?


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## AnhBui (22 Aug 2016)

Tom said:


> I



Will you add rocks? Quoted setup combining with rocks would create a perfect triangle layout


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## rebel (22 Aug 2016)

Looking very nice. Keep up the great work.


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## CooKieS (22 Aug 2016)

Some inspiration;


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## AnhBui (22 Aug 2016)

another


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## Tom (28 Aug 2016)

Thanks for the inspiration photos 

I visited three aquatics shops today and got myself both rocks and plants. I don't think I'll have enough time tonight to really take my time and do things properly, so for now I've just had a play with some rocks. There are four main rocks (faux pas, yes, but I don't really care). I'm a little concerned that one is seemingly a slightly different shade to the others, but it might not really matter once everything is in. I'm hoping it will be shaded anyway. I'll have another look at it tomorrow. I do have one more rock to try. 

There are then some other smaller lava rocks that I broke from a large piece. I will use these to attach moss and Bolbitis. I was a bit cheeky with the Bolbitis, and asked to buy some from a guppy-breeder tank. They would only give me half, but it might be enough. 





Again, I'll check the positioning tomorrow night before planting. I hope the plants will be ok overnight - it gets a little hot in here during the day, but I've left them in my porch area with the window slightly open. It'll get a little light, but not full sun or they'll bake. 

I decided to try the ADA plants grown in jelly, along with one waaay overgrown wabi kusa. The man in the shop was just saying to wash the jelly off under the tap, then separate the plants. The willow moss, Bolbitis, anubias nana 'mini', Crypts (lucens, wendtii and balansae) and HC (lovely lovely HC) are from other suppliers. 

Jaa, mata ashita ne. 

Tom


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## CooKieS (28 Aug 2016)

I really like your rocks shape and placement but the Wood isn't looking at his best this way.

Won't you play more with the hardscape?


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## alto (29 Aug 2016)

I really like wood position #3 so that one gets my vote on the next scape 

It's great wood  
- just need to try them all


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## Joe Turner (29 Aug 2016)

Rock placement is fantastic! Really natural  Looking forward to seeing this wet!!


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## Tom (8 Sep 2016)

Well I can say that 90% of the plants I added have now melted away. Completely. Including MM, HC, various other stems etc. The Wabi Kusa just rotted from bottom up. What a waste of a lot of money. No idea why. Here continues my not being able to grow anything at all in any tank since 2008. Added some more Hydrocotyle 3 days ago, and it's completely gone already. Just melted away. Why?? I don't understand.... I can't see that I'm doing anything differently to anyone else around here. Sure, the water is on the warm side at 28, but it is in the shops here too. I don't get it. 

Daily water changes, siphoning debris, ADA ferts, plenty of CO2 (nearly double the injection rate of the tanks in the ADA gallery last year, and distribution shouldn't be an issue).


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## Alexander Belchenko (8 Sep 2016)

Sorry to hear this. That could be realted to water parameters. I often read that tap water in Japan is almost RO. Have you asked in your local shop about water additives they could be using?

I'd try some simple moss, it should be quite tolerant to soft water.


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## Tom (7 Oct 2016)

I'd really appreciate some advice! 

A month ago I wrote to say that things were starting to melt, and yes I did lose maybe 90% of my plants. The problems are continuing, however, and I don't understand why. Growth is very slow. New growth is bright but it soon goes dark, brown and unhealthy-looking. Once trimmed, the lower half of the stems mostly just die off. The initial growth rate of the stems was very fast, but now, very little. 

5 or so years ago I had several small tanks back in the UK, but never experienced problems like this. Since then I've tried 3 or 4 tanks yet never been able to keep anything alive. I don't understand it and it's getting very frustrating. I love this hobby, but I'm now seriously considering giving it up again.

Here's the setup:

ADA 45P
ADA Aquasoil Amazonia
LED lighting - seems to be the most popular brand here in Japan. On for 7 hours per day Click me
Eheim Classic filter
Do!Aqua CO2 set and Do!Aqua Music Glass diffuser - 1bps, into the flow of the filter. Seemingly good distribution. On 2 hours before lights, and off 1 hour before.
ADA Brighty K - 2 pumps per day
ADA Brighty Step 1 - 2 pumps per day
ADA Special Lights - 2 pumps per day

Water -

Water changes - 50% every 2-3 days, dechlorinated with Tetra stuff. I tried leaving it a week between changes but the water turns brown...... Possibly the wood, but it's the same branch I've used in two tanks before. It never leeched at all then.

Filter clean - every week or two, rinsing media in water from the tank.

Here are some pictures - mainly stems, but you get the idea. I lost all my HC, Hydrocotyle, Bolbitis, most of my MM (the rest is brown and doing nothing). Even the moss has recently started browning off.














I'd really appreciate some pointers.

Tom


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## Courtneybst (7 Oct 2016)

Tom said:


> I'd really appreciate some advice!
> 
> A month ago I wrote to say that things were starting to melt, and yes I did lose maybe 90% of my plants. The problems are continuing, however, and I don't understand why. Growth is very slow. New growth is bright but it soon goes dark, brown and unhealthy-looking. Once trimmed, the lower half of the stems mostly just die off. The initial growth rate of the stems was very fast, but now, very little.
> 
> ...



Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.

It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.


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## Eduard18 (7 Oct 2016)

Hi there ! I'm very sorry to hear about that ; what I would do is test the water, both tap - if you are using it - and from the aquarium : KH, GH, Nitrates, Nitrites, Amonia, etc you get the idea ; I personally use the JBL "suitcase " test kit ; maybe I'm paranoid, but are you absolutely certain that there is no radioactive pollution from Fukushima ?
And secondly I would discard ADA fertilisers ; I've used them and it didn't work ; beside being very expensive - someone was complaining about prices in UK ; well he should have a look at those in France ; I switched for Tropica ,Aqua Rebel and DRAK products - the latter being a solid, long-term fertiliser, extremely effective - check my post The Force Awakens 
Good luck 


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## dw1305 (7 Oct 2016)

Hi all, 





Tom said:


>


That is a severe deficiency of one of the non-mobile elements essential for plant growth, the new growth is totally devoid of chlorophyll. Iron (Fe) would be the most likely. Can you get FeEDTA?

Have a look at <"Main nutrient that support...">.

cheers Darrel


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## Doubu (7 Oct 2016)

Just wondering - what is the colour spectrum of the light? I can't seem to find anywhere on the link... It looks like you have a nutrient rich soil, with more than enough fertilization - but your plants are still suffering. Perhaps the light does not have the right colour spectrum -> 5500K+? What's the wattage as well? But it might be a case of too much light as well... From my experience, during the initial stages of the set-up where you have fresh plants, they are still adapting - getting used to being under water, and throwing their roots out there to start grabbing nutrients. This is how I like to think of it/describe it - If you have too much light, the leaves are saying hey look - so much energy let's grow! Then they end up trying to grow but how do they grow? Through the roots. If the roots aren't established they can't grab the nutrients they need - then end up cannibalizing itself for nutrients to grow (which is why the plants start melting from the base, whereas the top seeming looks fine). To counter this, I would recommend just the right amount of light so that the plant does not die, but is allowed to root. Maybe reduce the light period for a week or two and monitor growth. Once rooted, you can start amping things up. Like with anything, if you dont got the basics (roots) down, then trying difficult new tasks (growing fast and beautiful) is not possible (unless you're a genius)....


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## Tom (8 Oct 2016)

Thank you for your replies.



Courtneybst said:


> Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.
> 
> It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.



Thank you - after a couple of weeks, there has been a fair amount of muck in the filter from plants that haven't been doing so well, and so I've been cleaning it quite regularly so as to avoid diatoms as far as possible. Hopefully when these issues get sorted, I'll be able to be a bit more relaxed about cleaning!

Being new in Japan, I'm slowly re-learning the hobby, products and services available. Next time I go to a shop, I'll see if I can work out how to ask about water testing! It'd be good to know what the tapwater is like here. I've heard a variety of things, ranging from concrete water to 'r/o-like'. I can't find anything reliable on the internet like I could in the UK, but maybe my Japanese isn't up to it!



Eduard18 said:


> And secondly I would discard ADA fertilisers ; I've used them and it didn't work ; beside being very expensive - someone was complaining about prices in UK ; well he should have a look at those in France ; I switched for Tropica ,Aqua Rebel and DRAK products - the latter being a solid, long-term fertiliser, extremely effective



Thanks Eduard - I chose ADA because I've had very good results with their fertilisers in the past (actually, my 3 most successful and healthiest high-tech tanks in the past were ADA). I've also used Tropica in the past. They are also not so expensive here when compared to back home. If you check the exchange rates now it still looks awfully expensive, but as I'm paid in Yen this is irrelevant - it's really no more expensive than any other type. Also, I've genuinely not yet seen another brand of plant fertiliser here in shops (not one containing anything useful, anyway) - shops mostly just have a case of ADA. I have, however, just ordered some powdered ferts from the UK, as I can't find anything except Potassium Carbonate here, even online - hopefully they get through customs unhindered.



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> That is a severe deficiency of one of the non-mobile elements essential for plant growth, the new growth is totally devoid of chlorophyll. Iron (Fe) would be the most likely. Can you get FeEDTA?



Thanks Darrel - that's good to know, but confusing. I'm using Amazonia and supposedly 'overdosing' on ADA ferts. I'm aware they are quite lean, though. Does this apply more to some plants than others? My 10-day-old Glosso is seemingly going well. As I just mentioned, I've ordered some powders from the UK. KNO3, KPO4 and a chelated trace mix.



Doubu said:


> Just wondering - what is the colour spectrum of the light? I can't seem to find anywhere on the link... It looks like you have a nutrient rich soil, with more than enough fertilization - but your plants are still suffering. Perhaps the light does not have the right colour spectrum -> 5500K+? What's the wattage as well?



Thanks Doubu - You're right, it doesn't specify the spectrum of light. It's a pretty crisp white, if that means anything at all. There are two rows of white, one of red and one of blue LEDs. The wattage and lumens, having just checked, are around half that of the equivalent ADA Aquasky 451. 13w and 700 lumens.

The Aquasky, too, is also not really horrifically costly compared to other options. I will admit I did go for a cheaper option though.


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## dw1305 (8 Oct 2016)

Hi all, 





Tom said:


> It's a pretty crisp white, if that means anything at all. There are two rows of white, one of red and one of blue LEDs. The wattage and lumens, having just checked, are around half that of the equivalent ADA Aquasky 451. 13w and 700 lumens.


 It isn't the light.





Tom said:


> I'm using Amazonia and supposedly 'overdosing' on ADA ferts. I'm aware they are quite lean, though. Does this apply more to some plants than others?


Honestly the severe chlorosis of the growing tips of your plants show that you don't have any of one of the non-motile elements, you really don't need to look any further. 

It doesn't matter how much you have of all the other essential elements for plant growth, if one is severely deficient.  It is <"Liebig's law of the minimum">.  There is more in the "<linked thread">. 

When you supply the ion that is missing new growth will be green, but the chlorotic leaves will never colour up, it is a non-motile element.

The non-motile elements are boron (B), calcium (Ca), copper (Cu), iron (Fe), manganese (Mn) and zinc (Zn), so you don't need a lot of any of them  (they are micro-elements), and plants need very small amounts of boron, zinc, copper and manganese. The trace elements mix will supply these.

If you have very soft water, calcium deficiency is a possibility, if your water is hard it is more likely to be iron. 

Plants from naturally alkaline conditions have mechanisms for obtaining iron, but plants from soft water won't and they will show chlorosis in base rich conditions. Iron deficiency is usually a problem with uptake, rather than total amount. Calcium can be supplied very easily from shells or coral gravel (both forms of calcium carbonate (CaCO3)).

 I'll assume you don't have very soft water, and that it is iron deficiency. Because most iron compounds are insoluble you need to supply iron in <"a chelated form">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Eduard18 (8 Oct 2016)

Courtneybst said:


> Hi Tom, I'm by no means an expert but I've been doing planted tanks for quite a while. In my experience, too frequent water changes and filter maintenance can actually do more harm than good. I used to do 30% changes weekly and then I stopped and left it completely to the plants and the filter to handle things and they seemed to appreciate the consistency much more. Believe it or not I was doing 10% water changes every 2-3 months and my parameters were all in check. I also only cleaned the filter once a year. The tank had never looked better.
> 
> It would be good to see some test results of your water to see what the issue really is as your equipment and scaping materials are no more unusual that anyone elses. If you can test for ph, gh, kh, nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, Temperature and even salinity.



Yes, I "second that motion", oversized filtration and all that, but you need healthy plants and that's exactly the issue here
Haven't you read the guy's post ? He talks about water turning brown after only a week ; me too I was thinking of some deficiency, but no deficiency could explain it; and besides if the plants are decaying, deficiencies all over, WHERE ARE THE ALGAE ?
I don't know maybe it's sea water, or very hard fresh water, or maybe polluted with something ; radioactivity ? Last time I checked Fukushima was in Japan and this is no large country 



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## AndyMcD (9 Oct 2016)

Hi Eduard18,

Fukushima is in north east of the country. According to Tom's profile, he appears to be in the south west.

Hi Tom,

How warm has the weather been? Could it be temperature driving out gases?


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## Phil Edwards (9 Oct 2016)

Nice apartment Tom!  Mine was a bit smaller and had no tatami matting.    It's much nicer to sleep on than carpeted flooring.  Do you have pictures of your local store?  Mine (in Shizuoka) was very neat, organized, and well stocked.  My biggest shock was how much they were charging for plants vs. the hardware.  Wabi kusa were more affordable than a la carte plants.


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## AndreiD (9 Oct 2016)

Pictures above with rotala is iron or trace deficiency , i had this issue , was gone after i started to dose 0.1 ppm level Fe traces and 0.3 ppm Fe 3 times per week , of course NO3 and PO4 EI levels and good CO2 levels


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## Tom (21 Oct 2016)

Well I've been triple dosing ADA since my last post (about 2 weeks), nothing has changed. Plants are still browning off right under the newest leaves, and nothing looks healthy. Although the Glosso is growing nice and fast, the leaves are quickly browning off. The brown doesn't rub off. I had the exact same problem in my last tank and never got to the bottom of it.

Despite having received EI powder ferts and a drop checker in the post, after just breaking both my lily pipes and CO2 diffuser in the last 24 hours, I'm about ready to give up this hobby yet again.


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## AndreiD (21 Oct 2016)

Triple dosing ADA ? which one exactly ? maybe you were triple dosing Macros and you need micros.

Did you trim the rotalas and wait 1-2 weeks and check if new growth if fine ? You need to trim because the existent bad leaves will not turn in good shape , only new growth will be looking good if you are on the right way with the ferts


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## kadoxu (21 Oct 2016)

Come on mate! Your scaping is too good for you to give up!

Could it be poor water flow? Is your filter an EHEIM Classic 250? What kind of lily pipes are you using?

From what I can see, ADA Brighty K provides potassium, ADA Brighty Step 1 provides Trace elements, and ADA Special Lights, well, I don't know...

If it is Iron deficiency like Darrel said (and if he says so, it probably is), you should be already providing enough... so you need to try a source of Iron with a different chelator (also like Darrel said). How hard is your water?

Also, like Darrel and AndreiD said, the deficiency is from a non-motile nutrient, meaning affected leaves won't recover... you'll only see a difference in new growing leaves.


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## Tom (22 Oct 2016)

AndreiD said:


> Triple dosing ADA ? which one exactly ? maybe you were triple dosing Macros and you need micros.
> 
> Did you trim the rotalas and wait 1-2 weeks and check if new growth if fine ? You need to trim because the existent bad leaves will not turn in good shape , only new growth will be looking good if you are on the right way with the ferts



Brighty K (Potassium), Step 1 (Micros) and Brighty Special Lights (Macros).

Yeah, when I trim, nothing at all happens for at least a week. Then when it does, it turns brown right under the newest leaves. It doesn't seem to be algae but more like leaf colouration, as it doesn't rub off. I trimmed the tops of the stems and replanted them a few days ago.



kadoxu said:


> Could it be poor water flow? Is your filter an EHEIM Classic 250? What kind of lily pipes are you using?



I was using lily pipes that were basically the same shape as the standard green pipes - until I broke them yesterday. Now I've gone back to the standard green outlet.

I tried using the spray bar that comes with it. There wasn't enough power to distribute the CO2 bubbles, and I couldn't direct the flow towards the diffuser.



kadoxu said:


> If it is Iron deficiency like Darrel said (and if he says so, it probably is), you should be already providing enough... so you need to try a source of Iron with a different chelator (also like Darrel said). How hard is your water?



That's something I've not been able to work out yet. I found the monthly water report for the closest city (25 miles away). It seems that depending on the area of the city, calcium/magnesium could vary between 51-120ppm, pH between 6.3 and 7.4. What translates as 'residue on evaporation' seems to include calcium, magnesium, silica, sodium and potassium, and is between 188-307ppm depending on where in the city. But, I'm a drive away from there. Isn't that hard?


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## Tom (27 Oct 2016)

Hopefully these pictures show what's wrong. There has been an improvement in the Rotala since I upped the dose of everything - they are no longer going black - but there is still the issue of leaves going brown.


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## Tom (30 Oct 2016)

So I just visited a local shop and asked them to test my water. The pH was 6.8, and a little on the soft side - no extremes, but fairly soft. He said it was very much like the store water they use in their tanks, and shouldn't cause any issues.

While the Rotala isn't looking as severe as it was, everything looks a little brown still.

The only suggestion he did have was that the light I was using was, in his opinion, a little weak. It's a 13w LED. Saying that, his recommendation was actually only 10w, but had more LEDs. Could this have anything to do with it? Not enough light, leading to issues? I know the ADA equivalent is double the power. My Glosso is mostly growing up, rather than sideways. It's my first time using LEDs.

I was wary of being sold something I didn't need, so I didn't buy anything. His shop tanks are very clean and healthy, though.


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## Tom (5 Nov 2016)

I seem to now also be struggling with CO2-related algae after firstly I broke my diffuser, and then my CO2 bottle ran out. Then, the CO2 hose kept popping off the new diffuser for up to 3 days until I could change the hose over.

The brownness is also continuing to get worse and I've lost most of my Anubias. The moss is looking awful now, too. Have been dosing EI for a week. Lost 3 Amano shrimp. I just don't understand how a shop just down the road and with a very similar water source can use the same gear and yet have such different results. It's so, so frustrating. 

Room temperature has also dropped from 27 to 12 within a week as we have no central heating or insulation here. Winter seems to have arrived.


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## Tom (5 Nov 2016)

[more recent posts on previous page] 

Here's a quick video of the tank, showing the CO2 injection and overall poor plant health. Sorry it's not so clear.

I'm seriously considering starting again with a new scape and EI from the beginning, to see what happens - but that does mean putting more money into it again.


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## tim (5 Nov 2016)

If you rescape it Tom, you may just encounter the same issues again, from the video it doesn't look that bad 
I would be tempted to just let it grow especially the stems in the background you then have the option of uprooting and replanting the strong tops and seeing if the issues are resolved.


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## Manisha (6 Nov 2016)

It's such a nice scape, it would be a shame to restart  I'm not a co2 user but have managed a handful of plants alright with soft water but are generally in the 'low tech, easy' catagory  I wondered with using in vitro plants (which are naturally younger & less stored enery) if using co2 & ferts are a bit out of balance - I can imagine everything goes south quicker. Now you have seemed to sort out your fertilising regime it may just take time & patience for it to come around again like Tim says ☺ Hoping it improves for you soon!


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## clone (6 Nov 2016)

Hi, 
If you want to re-skape, go for it but will not solve the issues. I saved some of my tanks from different types of algae/plant melt like this:

 1) Switch off the filter, lights and CO2. Physically remove algae or dead plant mass to reduce ammonia spike later.
 2) , 3% H2O2  treatment on the most infested zones/hardskape using syringe or eyedropper(  do this when tank is still full of old water, and leave for 5-10 min hydrogen peroxide to work) will fuzz like champagne careful with the moss is the most sensitive to H2O2 so the fauna of the tank, you can use power-head to circulate the water during the treatment, dont use your filter as will bleach the beneficial bacteria in it.
3) 50% water change try to siphon as much as possible dead algae and plant mass
4) Top up your tank with fresh water that will stop H2O2 treatment as will dilute the peroxide.
5) Power the filter but not thy CO2 as can suffocate the fauna
6) Fully cover the tank with carton box or black bin bags or dark paper, should be fully BLACKOUT for the next 3-5  days. Dont peek to see whats up the fish/shrimp will be OK.  
7) Open a can of your favourite beer, you deserve it.
8) After the certain time 3-5 days uncover the tank. Switch OFF the filter.
9) Your plants will be clean and a little bit overgrown as they was searching for the light for 5 days(*Phototropism)*- they will look pale but healthy.
10) Hit the remaining algae( if any) with another dose of H2O2 just to make sure you damage all algae cells.
11) 80-100% water change if you dont have sensitive fish/shrimp, I lost couple of shrimp because they can not handle rapid change of the water chemistry...if so do 50%. Try to syphon any dead algae/plant mass
12) Most of all you fixed the Problem now not the reason, so try to revisit your dosing regime, do extra WC as dead algae can provoke ammonia spike, clean your filter media as there is dead algae trapped there
13) Revisit your Lighting schedule as the plants need a week or so to recover from the Blackout period and start to uptake Nutritients. I go always lean on dosing for week or so after the treatment and do extra WC
14) Pump up your CO2 gradually as your dosing regime. 
NB. Dont use any stronger than 3% H2O2 as it will burn your moss and some sensitive plants like HC, Bucephalandras. Dont over do peroxide as over 5 - 10 min can damage any plant cells or fish gills. Circulate the water during the H2O2 treatment. Expect some dead plants as they been damaged prior the treatment, the same for the shrimp and fish they may be sick prior the treatment without any signs for that.
Hopefully will be  no victims in the war with the algae, but the algae itself! Wish you luck!


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## clone (6 Nov 2016)

Just read  your entire thread and I think there is a lot of urban legends behind the importance of CO2 distribution, Light strength PAR, dosing nutrients and so on. It is all matter of what do you want to achieve with your tanks. The truth is almost any plant can grow at any conditions but at certain rates as long as you keep the golden triangle in wright shape and your tank balanced. Ammonia and Inconsistency is your biggest ENEMY.


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## Tom (29 Nov 2016)

Still persisting with this, and have now been dosing EI for just over a month. Some stems are growing marginally faster and the new growth does look a little better, but still becomes engulfed in brown rather quickly. The Glosso has also started to die off, after initially carpeting very quickly and nicely. It hasn't recovered well from even a rather mild trim. 

The moss is, believe it or not, the fastest-growing plant I have - but even so, it is mostly brown. The healthiest-looking plants are the new Bolbitis leaves. It's the only plant that doesn't seem to go brown. 

I'm also getting a lot of debris settling every couple of days. The moss gets regularly vaccumed, and the water coming down the tube is opaque. Debris also settles heavily like snow on the stem plants and below the Glosso. Is this due to the diatoms, or possibly the cause? If it's the cause, then where would it be coming from?


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## bridgey_c (29 Nov 2016)

Have you ever taken a ph profile of your tank?


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## Tom (29 Nov 2016)

Yes, somewhere between 6.5-7. Tap is about 6.8.


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## bridgey_c (29 Nov 2016)

I know the leaves indicate a deficiency but my first port of call would be to absolutely make sure my co2 was nailed on.

Over here you can buy a ph pen/indicator solution and a KH measurement solution for a tenner. Measure your KH, measure your pH before lights on continue to measure your pH during the day. Check with the KH, pH, co2 charts and get the co2 levels bang on. 

Clone's triangle is obviously correct and maybe the fact your lfs uses a weaker light could be useful info. Maybe raise your lights a couple of inches for a while till you find out where your deficiency is.


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## AndreiD (29 Nov 2016)

Your plants are yellow , not brown , the brown stuff are diatoms , they are coming from the plants that are not growing . 

As i said before , you have a Fe deficiency , check out the new anubias leaves , they are pale /yellow , also hydrocotyle tripartita is yellow

Change your micro fertilizer ,  switch to DTPA iron / micros , like Easy Life Profitto / Ferro or JBL feropol or JBL microelements , you should see changes in 2-3 weeks 

Also lower your CO2 diffuser and add more CO2 if possible , be careful not to kill your fish / shrimps with too much co2

Do water changes 2 times per week , 30-50 % and add ferts back right after water change 

Good luck .


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## Tom (29 Nov 2016)

I've changed the micros twice now. I'm dosing EI with chelated trace, KNO3 and KPO4 powders from CO2 Supermarket. I'm in Japan and it is hard to find what I want here. Pretty much everyone here seems to use ADA, as have I in the past, with great results. With the exception of the ADA ferts I used before, I have been ordering from the UK.

As the for the yellow, some of it in the latest video might be the white balance on the camera. New leaves, to me, look to be a nice green - but not for long. From there, they become covered in diatoms. 

I'm injecting more CO2 than I've ever done before for a small tank, and it is being well distributed. The drop checker is yellow all day and blue before lights on - I don't want to increase it any more.  

I'm doing 3-4 50% water changes per week because of the dirt that builds up.


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## AndreiD (19 Dec 2016)

Any news ?


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## Tom (9 Jan 2017)

Still running, but still with the same problems. I can't shake the brownness in plants. CO2 consistent, EI dosing, regular maintenance. 

Considering having one last try with a new layout.


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## Tom (9 Jan 2017)

Current state. Locally collected rocks, ADA Aquasoil and ADA Colorado sand.

Gonna give it one more go.

EI, ADA CO2, ADA Aquasoil.


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## Tom (11 Jan 2017)

Here's the new design. 





This time I'm using a heater, and have re-plumbed my CO2. I think I was losing quite a bit of gas from having loops of silicone tubing, but now I'm using minimal. The rest is ADA high-pressure tube. I used a whole canister of gas in a week, whereas before it lasted 6. The bubble rate is a lot easier to control now. 






I have hairgrass at the back, but the substrate level is lower than I thought - it might not be visible. Will see how it goes.


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## roadmaster (11 Jan 2017)

Look's to be fresh start.
To be possibly followed shortly, by diatom's.
Might were it me,(and it ain't) start with moderate light intensity/photoperiod.
Amano shrimp,Nerite snail's (if GH suit's them) would help scour the hardscape whilst you get consistent CO2 and nutrient's lined up.
Would not fret bout diatom's on hardscape for they mostly go away on their own over time (month's sometimes).
My apologies if type of lighting has been mentioned but,,the tank look's to be very well lit up.


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## Tom (13 Jan 2017)

Thanks. If wattage is anything to go on, my light is 1/4 of the strength of the 45cm ADA Aquasky Moon. Based on seeing both used on shop displays here side-by-side, my one is visibly dimmer. 

Tom


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## Tom (20 Jan 2017)

Quick 10-day update then. 

Things are beginning to grow. I've also added the Amano Shrimp that I took out of the last layout. The Crypt at the back was added too, from the last layout. The rest of those old plants are sitting emersed in a Do!Aqua plant glass (cheaper than a supermarket glass bowl here...!)


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## Doubu (22 Jan 2017)

This might sound a little out there - but I would recommend you adding ramshorn snails too. I have them in all my tanks and honestly they are such good cleaners - they will eat up all kinds of algae (diatoms, gda) along with dying leaves/plants. This will help you keep the tank clean with minimal effort. If there are too many, add an algae wafer or lettuce or w/e, they will all swarm on it and then you can remove a bunch at one time. Hope everything works out better this time around!


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## Tom (3 Feb 2017)

Thanks Doubu, that's a suggestion I hadn't thought of.

I've started to see some diatoms appearing this week for the first time, and so I went to expand my cleanup crew. I already had 5 Amanos (Yamato numa ebi) but I picked up 3 more. Also went for 3 Otocinclus and 2 ishimakigai (snails - I'm not sure of the English. Nerite snails?).

On a positive note, the new Rotala growth looks good - some stems are struggling to adapt, but most are putting out new shoots near the bottom. I'm cutting off the old tops as they start to grow.

On a side note - I was looking at some Neon Tetras in the shop yesterday. They're fantastic here. Like, really. I've not seen Neons like this back home. They always look sickly, mis-shapen and can be quite hit-and-miss. They're not only great-looking here, but are by far the cheapest fish in the shop, at ￥55 each. That's about 40p, even with our awful exchange rate now. When I commented on it, the man in the shop told me that before they were as expensive as ￥100, thinking that that was horrific.

Amanos, too, are ￥100 each. That's around 70-75p. My Otos were 3 for ￥900, or £6.50 ish.


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## Doubu (4 Feb 2017)

Great to hear! Nerites from my experience suffer in CO2 settings... if you find them trying to escape the tank you'll know why now haha (tough lesson for me).


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## Tom (6 Feb 2017)

Have a look at this picture - the stems on the right are doing quite well, but the stems on the left are looking the same as before. Why would this be? Both seem to be getting adequate flow and CO2.

New leaves on the left are small and twisted. The hairgrass is also not doing well. On the right, most is growing well. If anything, the plants on the right get a little less flow - but nowhere has particularly strong currents.


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## Tom (6 Feb 2017)

Here's another.


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## CooKieS (6 Feb 2017)

Hi,

Check your CO2 level, that looks like CO2 deficiency.

If CO2 level is ok, it can be Iron, calcium (trace ) or nitrogen deficiency...are you dosing anything yet?


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## Eduard18 (6 Feb 2017)

Doubu said:


> Great to hear! Nerites from my experience suffer in CO2 settings... if you find them trying to escape the tank you'll know why now haha (tough lesson for me).


Hello !
I do have nerites in a CO2 tank and they are not trying to escape ; I think it's about how much CO2 is injected in the tank ; in my case at about 25 mg /l they stay in the tank and the plants are growing 

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Tom (6 Feb 2017)

Thanks CooKieS. I was wondering the same, especially after the advice I was given the previous time around. I've just switched to a spray bar and added the little eheim pump again to try to rule out circulation issues before increasing the CO2. I'm still seeing no CO2 related algae, but who knows? Algae eaters might be working hard. 

I'm also tempted to double the dosing from tomorrow, and watch what happens. I've been dosing CO2 supermarket EI (KNO3, KPO4, chelates trace) to their recommended levels.


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## kadoxu (6 Feb 2017)

Eduard18 said:


> Hello !
> I do have nerites in a CO2 tank and they are not trying to escape ; I think it's about how much CO2 is injected in the tank ; in my case at about 25 mg /l they stay in the tank and the plants are growing


I agree!
I find Nerite snails to be an awesome high CO2 alert system! Whenever CO2 becomes too high, they stay a bit above water level until CO2 drops to normal levels


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## Doubu (6 Feb 2017)

Eduard18 said:


> Hello !
> I do have nerites in a CO2 tank and they are not trying to escape ; I think it's about how much CO2 is injected in the tank ; in my case at about 25 mg /l they stay in the tank and the plants are growing



I must be a murderer then... =(


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## Eduard18 (6 Feb 2017)

Wouldn't know about that 

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Tom (22 Mar 2017)

Surprise, surprise, the same thing happened again. Mostly growing well until all of a sudden, almost complete die-off of the stems. I've tried experimenting with various different fertilisers etc., and so I'm wondering if it's the water supply. 

This week I found a site in the hills near here where locals collect drinking water - they say it's the best around, and completely natural. There are taps that bring water up from underground. On the surface there is a small, natural koi pond and several streams of crystal clear water. I got a container went to collect some of this water on Monday, doing a very large water change. I did another today, trimmed the stems to the substrate and hacked the moss right back. Will keep an eye on it, but the moss already seems to have coloured up.


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