# Deserted island journal



## ghostsword (15 Jul 2010)

I have seen a photo online by a designer called Frederico Felix
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs37/f/2008/ ... oFelix.png)






I am trying to replicate the pic on a tank, so I have requested a quotation for this:




A London acrylic tank builder should get back to me with a price, and I will use a metal workshop to make a metal cabinet stand for it.

I have got the bonsai sorted out, will use Bald Cypress or a Juniper, will get them small. 

For the rock I am getting a fake rock, invert it, and cut the base, so that I have a cup to house the bonsai and some seiryu stone.

I will tie Java Fern and Anubias to the fake rock, and make a tripod of mopani wood to rest the rock on. Will have to visit TGM, as they are the only shop I know that has a massive amount of wood on display, I am bound to find what I need there.

For light, I will use a pendant of vapour light, Arcadia 3, cheap and cheerful, and CO2 will be a JBL presurised can.

I am thinking of getting just plain sand for substrate, and to plant a mix oc tenellus, lileaopsis and Marsilea Hirsuta. 

For fish I will just have Neons, Kuhli Loaches, and C. schultzei.


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## sanj (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Just wondering would it not look better in a big cubeish shape? I was just thinkng that the different dimensions in the hood could detract from the scape even if it is in acrylic. Just a thought...


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Luis

i thought you would be gone for a tall or deep tank - something like an aqua 620T http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FISH-TANK-130L-AQ ... 27b3673ff7. Just a thought. 

Regards
Paul.


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## Nick16 (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

are you going to have enough surface area?


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## ghostsword (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				Flyfisherman said:
			
		

> Luis
> 
> i thought you would be gone for a tall or deep tank - something like an aqua 620T http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FISH-TANK-130L-AQ ... 27b3673ff7. Just a thought.
> 
> ...





			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Just wondering would it not look better in a big cubeish shape? I was just thinkng that the different dimensions in the hood could detract from the scape even if it is in acrylic. Just a thought...



I would like to have the front open, so that we can see the bonsai... 

Something like this, from Filipe Oliveira @ Interzoo:


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## Dan Crawford (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

I saw that whilst there, it was one of my favorites.

Good luck with this clever idea, i'll be watching eagerly as it's something i've been considering myself.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Luis

Arh now I see where you are coming from - evaporation might be an issue - hope you have plenty of water on tap   .

Regards
Paul.


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## bogwood (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Luis.
What a great challange....... you appear to have planned well, Good luck.  
Nice to watch a new idea develop.


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## ghostsword (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				Flyfisherman said:
			
		

> Luis
> 
> Arh now I see where you are coming from - evaporation might be an issue - hope you have plenty of water on tap   .
> 
> ...



I currently have a open top tank, and evaporation is slightly higher than normal, but nothing that we cannot manage. Using EI I do two WC of 70% in total, so just as well that I am not on metered water contract and I don't have fancy fish.




			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> I saw that whilst there, it was one of my favorites.
> 
> Good luck with this clever idea, i'll be watching eagerly as it's something i've been considering myself.



Thanks Dan, since I saw that photo that I wanted to do something like that, but the desert island was what it tipped the scale. It will look cool, if I can get it out of paper and into my living room.

Light is the only issue that needs to be worked on, maybe a ceiling spot, or clip on halogen lights.


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## NeilW (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

I looked into creating a similar palludarium type thing with a bonsai oak so that the dead leaves would fall into the water creating an ideal environment for shrimp.  What stopped me was finding a tree species that would be OK inside a house with central heating as its meant to destroy their perception of seasons.  I'm guessing that both juniper and bald cypress fit the bill though?   Were you going for a 'formal' bonsai on just something that looked cool?


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## John Starkey (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Hi Luis,i have always had an interest in bonzai trees,if i am correct you can get trees like the ones in the photo what Dan saw at interzoo,this will be some challenge for you but if you pull it off it will be very nice indeed,

god luck with it,
regards,
john.


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## a1Matt (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

I agree it will be a challenge.
I suspect that is part of the appeal to Luis   
Luis already has proven his skills at growing aquatic and emersed plants so if anyone can pull it off he can


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## ghostsword (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> I agree it will be a challenge.
> I suspect that is part of the appeal to Luis
> Luis already has proven his skills at growing aquatic and emersed plants so if anyone can pull it off he can



Thanks Matt.. Growing plants is easy.. scaping is hard.. hence why this appeals to me. Rock, bonsai, carpet..  



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Luis,i have always had an interest in bonzai trees,if i am correct you can get trees like the ones in the photo what Dan saw at interzoo,this will be some challenge for you but if you pull it off it will be very nice indeed,
> 
> god luck with it,
> regards,
> john.



The Bonsai on the photo look Ficus trees, I may be wrong, and they actually do very well inside the home, with some low light. 

The tank may have a 150W or 200W light, so that should be enough. It will also get natural light, although no sunlight.



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> I looked into creating a similar palludarium type thing with a bonsai oak so that the dead leaves would fall into the water creating an ideal environment for shrimp.  What stopped me was finding a tree species that would be OK inside a house with central heating as its meant to destroy their perception of seasons.  I'm guessing that both juniper and bald cypress fit the bill though?   Were you going for a 'formal' bonsai on just something that looked cool?



I just purchased a starter Juniper on ebay for Â£11 including delivery, and I am bidding on a Bald Cypress tree. I will first try them on the fake rock, the Juniper will remain potted, and the Bald Cypress will be with the roots wet. They will have moss on top, or hairgrass on the wet areas. 

This will be a very funny project. 

Do you know any one that can me stainless steel tripods?


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## a1Matt (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Yep, ficus are pretty hardy and sold as general houseplants. 

There are plenty of bonsai shops out there and I imagine they would be able to advise you.  This is one nearish to me: http://lvbonsai.co.uk/

They do workshops which you might be interested in attending. 

I got my akadama from them, really nice people, they are interested in fishkeeping (they used to have a 6 ft x 6ft discus tank!!!), so I imagine would be happy to go over your plan with you and advise you on the bonsai aspect.


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## ghostsword (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Fantastic Matt.. I will call them right now.. I need all the help I can get on this..


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## Stickleback (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Hi

This is a bit like the project that I am working on and it has been really fun. I am growing Ficus Benghalensis AKA Banyan from seed, on a piece of wood sticking out of the tank. The reason I chose Banyan is because the root structure is so interesting. The roots wrap around the host species, in this case the dead wood, using it as a trunk and eventually completely enveloping it. Although that stage is still many moons away, it has been fascinating watching the little filamentous roots creating a lattice around the trunk and dipping in to the water, where they seem to grow essentially as hydroponically cultivated plants in the very well fertilised water of a planted tank.

I have tried to grow Banyan before with no success and this time I split the seeds between the tank and a propagator. The propagator seeds grew but as soon as I took them out in to the dry air of the kitchen they gave up the ghost. Even though it is an open tank, the aquarium's humid micro climate allows you to grow plants that would not otherwise grow indoors. The ones in the tank look really happy and the root structure is coming on very well. But I digress. 

I really like the sound of your project and will watch it with interest.

Good luck.

R


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## sanj (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> I would like to have the front open, so that we can see the bonsai...
> 
> Something like this, from Filipe Oliveira @ Interzoo:




Ah I see!

You could even just use a shallow tank, not sure why the glass height needs to increase to the back?


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## sanj (15 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Hmm, I gues it was to support the height of the planting.


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## ghostsword (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

I am not looking for such a large land mass as the one from Filipe Oliveira, more like a 20cm diameter rock, on a 70cm long tank, slightly to the left. 

The long back I want is to hide the pipes and support the light high above the plant. On the back strip will be led's.

A shallow tank would be also good, a Waki Kusa project, but with Bonsai.

I wouldn't mind trying the Banyan tree as well. 

I have joined a Bonsai Forum and will take a couple of courses, one in August, so that I learn more about Bonsai.


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## arty (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Great project. 

Good Luck !

Best Regards,


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## Mortis (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

This is going to be really great if you can pull it off. I really think you should go for a tall tank rather than what you have planned and fashion the rockwork using some cement and seiryu stone. That way you can have a good base and also fashion a cup/pot on top where you can plant the bonsai. Half the beauty of that pic is the spire of rock sinking into the depths.


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## ghostsword (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

That would be good.. Cement and Seiryu stone. I tough about it, but I am worried about how the cement may impact the water. I even thought about gluing seiryu stone to make a platform, but weight is an issue.. A tall tank would be good, but I am after no more than 40cm tall, making the tank only 120L, easier for me to take care off.


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## ghostsword (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

I may have the rock without seamlessly floating on the water.. like this...






So fish would swim under and around. Also Java fern and Anubia's would drop the roots. 

I found a way to get it suspended seamlessly.


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## Anonymous (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Why don't you make it 40x40x40 with 60-80 the back wall keeping the design you've posted at the beginning? You could also go for a 30x30x30 and a 50-70 back wall, the smaller the better to maintain and you can use only with natural stones and some neoprene under the rock column (you can secure the column to the back wall with some strong magnets like the ones for cleaning, one end glued to the rock column)


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## Stu Worrall (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

great idea to follow luis and looks like it will be a cool setup.  

I wouldnt go with the trees youve mentioned though.  Ive grown bonsai for about 16 years and one of the most common things we get asked at shows it why tree have died when people have brought them inside.  Unless its going to be in a kind of cold room or porch I wouldnt use cypress or juniper inside as the central heating will most likely kill them.  You may get away with it from the evaporating water creating a more humid area but with them having no season inside the house I think youd have a much better chance with a tropical variety, Ficus like you mentioned or chinese elm.  Youll also have to watch for any root rot if the roots are constanly submerged.

Usually if I want to display any of my outdoor trees then only come inside for 2 days max.


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## ghostsword (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> Unless its going to be in a kind of cold room or porch I wouldnt use cypress or juniper inside as the central heating will most likely kill them.  You may get away with it from the evaporating water creating a more humid area but with them having no season inside the house I think youd have a much better chance with a tropical variety, Ficus like you mentioned or chinese elm.



Thanks.. I will take that tip onboard and start to look for a Ficus tree, cannot beat 16 years of experience... The roots will not be submerged. I will have hydrocoton, soil, then the bonsai on top of a rock with the roots tied down. I can buy small ficus bonsai at ikea, and most have exposed roots, so it can be achieved. 

I bought a starter juniper, will have to figure out what to do with it now..   Maybe a tray with moss and the juniper on rock, will need to read more about it.

Will order the tank end of month, then in september I will sort out the lights and stand, that way the Â£Â£Â£ impact is not so high.


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## NeilW (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> I can buy small ficus bonsai at ikea, and most have exposed roots, so it can be achieved.



I bought one of these the other month and its been flowering for the last couple of weeks.  Grown in in Flora-Base and some left over Naturesoil and it seems to have worked a treat.  I want to properly wire it to train it to shape.  Did you want me to take you a picture?


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## ghostsword (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Thanks Neil.. Post some pics, they always help.

I repotted a Ficus tree about 6 months ago, on a much larger pot, and the tree is growing nicely. Has been on the garden for a while now, some leaves turned brown, but much more new leaves turned up. As the roots must be much bigger now I intend to uproot it, put fossilised wood under and then plant it again, so in time the roots will grow attached to the rock. 

For the tank I will get a couple of starter ficus and let them fuse together, to make a wider tree. They should do good with the deep container for roots and the tank T5 light.


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## NeilW (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Mine is in no way pretending to be a 'true' bonsai as its neither in a tray (although I may change it one day) nor does it comply with any particular rules.  More just a bit of fun and learning exercise for me as they were meant to be a forgiving species.  Its a bit of a mess currently as I've let it go where I havn't had the time so it needs pruning, leaf exfoliation and some wiring but you get the idea;















Still has quite a 'trunky' looking trunk.


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## Mortis (16 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

Do you really want a large tank or are you aiming for around 120L to be 'safe' ? I would say a good size would be 15-18 inches length and breadth with 10-12 inches height.

Cement : It is usually tank safe once fully cured. People use it often to make DIY tank backgrounds and even man made live rock in marine tanks has cement in it.

For the island design, you could make a birds foot shape at the base - main central portion with 'toes' going either side and front and back. I dont think it would balance well if the central column was just straight. You might have to make it lean gently from front to back or back to front. If you are using cement and seiryu to make the island pot thingy then you could fit in some suction cups at the back for extra support or cables to attach to the sides or something.

Damn I want to set up this tank now 

EDIT : Dont know much about trees and bonsai but Ficus seems like a good bet, you could also have a look at neem and eucalyptus. I think you would have to stick to tropical trees mainly for this to work


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## ghostsword (17 Jul 2010)

*Re: Desert island journal*

@Neilw... Lovely tree, I like the flowers. I got mine for about 2 years and has not flowered yet. I repotted it today, placed a fossilized stone in between the roots. Hopefully it should envelop the stone and let the roots grow much ticker. In 6 months I will see how it is. 

@Mortis  .. I am comfortable with a 120l tank, would like bigger, but my home is small. Also, for what I want it is perfect, easy to manage and to work on.


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## ghostsword (21 Jul 2010)

Found the stone pilar:





Will see if I find anything similar on ebay, but for now this seems the best option.


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