# Modern External filter design



## Aqua sobriquet (6 Feb 2021)

I’ve read quite a bit about folks with leaking external filters, noisy filters etc and wondered what most folks experience of them are? Do they work as well as expected, are they easy to clean?
As an example, I bought a sera 130UV a while back and it seemed pretty good. Not as quiet as my Tetra but that’s exceptionally quiet. One day though I left the cleaning cycle a bit too long and found the whole inside of the filter was really messy. As the muck built up it obviously started to bypass the way the water normally flows and made a right mess of my biological media. This hadn’t happened before but I obviously left it too long. The way the trays are arranged with their “water pipes” can only be a guide as they aren’t sealed, just slotted together. I’ve managed to reduce the noise of my Eheim Classic so I’ve started using that instead. It’s not impossible for the water to bypass the media in this more simple design but it should be a bit better. I could improve it by removing the media container but it’s a convenient feature.
Have manufacturers tried to be too clever with their external filter designs? Surely the most efficient system is the simplest?


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## dw1305 (7 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


Aqua sobriquet said:


> Have manufacturers tried to be too clever with their external filter designs? Surely the most efficient system is the simplest?


<"Same for me">, as Clive (@ceg4048) says, it is fundamentally a <"_pump in a bucket_">.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (7 Feb 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> I’ve read quite a bit about folks with leaking external filters, noisy filters etc and wondered what most folks experience of them are? Do they work as well as expected, are they easy to clean?
> As an example, I bought a sera 130UV a while back and it seemed pretty good. Not as quiet as my Tetra but that’s exceptionally quiet. One day though I left the cleaning cycle a bit too long and found the whole inside of the filter was really messy. As the muck built up it obviously started to bypass the way the water normally flows and made a right mess of my biological media. This hadn’t happened before but I obviously left it too long. The way the trays are arranged with their “water pipes” can only be a guide as they aren’t sealed, just slotted together. I’ve managed to reduce the noise of my Eheim Classic so I’ve started using that instead. It’s not impossible for the water to bypass the media in this more simple design but it should be a bit better. I could improve it by removing the media container but it’s a convenient feature.
> Have manufacturers tried to be too clever with their external filter designs? Surely the most efficient system is the simplest?



IDD, Coarse and medium filter media and let the plants roots take care of the Biological filtration  bio media for fluval 305


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## Aqua sobriquet (7 Feb 2021)

I’ve just given my Eheim Classic 250 a clean and was surprised by the amount of bypass. When I had one of these years ago they didn’t come with a media basket and I don't think I ever had this problem. I’ve just ordered a couple of lattice screens so next time it needs a clean I’ll try it without the basket and see how that works. I’m not over bothered by any of this, just interested to see if there’s any difference. I’ll also probably try out some “Bio Cube” at the same time.


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## dw1305 (7 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


Aqua sobriquet said:


> When I had one of these years ago they didn’t come with a media basket


I don't use the media baskets. I use the <"bottom plastic lattice">, but I just tip the <"floating cell media">, <"coco-pops etc"> in. If I have a <"PPI10 sponge disc"> I put it on the lattice, but if I don't have a sponge, I'm not too bothered. 

I have a <"big sponge block on the filter intake">, which means that even after 6 months the <"filter media is pretty clean">.

cheers Darrel


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## Aqua sobriquet (7 Feb 2021)

Those Eheim coarse filters are very easy to clean, I just shook them under a stream of running tap water a couple of times and all the muck flew out.


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## Mark Nicholls (15 Mar 2021)

My opinion is that most newer models are gimmicks and are recipes for disaster! Every connector is a potential leak and every compartment or attachment reduces flow. Most "features" are gimmicks, designed to sell new products. 
I find that the more basic a filter is, the more reliable it is. My filter of choice for a smaller tank is the APS EF150 which is as basic as it can get being a bucket with hose attached! All I use is the 3 stock sponges, the biomedia and a handful of Alder cones. There is NO WAY I would be tempted to buy an allsinging-alldancing model such as the latest Fluval as their internals are to complicated and there's too many leak points.


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2021)

Hi all, 


Mark Nicholls said:


> My opinion is that most newer models are gimmicks and are recipes for disaster! Every connector is a potential leak and every compartment or attachment reduces flow. Most "features" are gimmicks, designed to sell new products.
> I find that the more basic a filter is, the more reliable it is.


I think quite a few of us are <"of that opinion">. 


Mark Nicholls said:


> which is as basic as it can get being a bucket with hose attached!


Have you been <"listening to Clive">?


Mark Nicholls said:


> There is NO WAY I would be tempted to buy an allsinging-alldancing model such as the latest Fluval as their internals are to complicated and there's too many leak points.


<"Same for me">, less is definitely more.

cheers Darrel


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## Ivan Stoyanov (15 Mar 2021)

I'm waiting for my oase biomaster 850 and more I read more I starting to think to left him as he is with so much mechanical filtration in him. I though to remove all and put in pumice with purigen on top and left mechanical only for pre-filter, but why?


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Mark Nicholls said:


> There is NO WAY I would be tempted to buy an allsinging-alldancing model such as the latest Fluval as their internals are to complicated and there's too many leak points.



Yet I have a Fluval FX6 and for all its faults in complexity and ribbed 25mm tubing, its still does pack a decent filter/output for the price IMO


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2021)

Hi all,


Ivan Stoyanov said:


> remove all and put in pumice with purigen on top and left mechanical only for pre-filter, but why?


It is just a flow  and <"dissolved oxygen issue"> really. Filter maintenance is a lot easier with a pre-filter.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having mechanical filtration inside the filter body, as long as you are <"meticulous in removing it before it becomes clogged">.  As flow slows you potentially run into issues with <"low oxygen levels">.

A lot of forum discussion of, and <"advertising blurb about,  filter media"> looks upon anaerobic denitrification of nitrate (NO3-) in the filter as a good idea. I can tell you unequivocally <"it isn't a good idea"> and that in <"a planted aquarium">  you have the advantages of  <"plant/microbe nitrification">, which is  a lot more effective and <"reduces levels of all forms of fixed nitrogen">, including NO3-.

cheers Darrel


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## Ivan Stoyanov (15 Mar 2021)

So you think better to remove all mechanical inside the filter and left only on pre-filter, the flow for sure will be better


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2021)

I’ll put my neck on the line and be the lone voice in support for the ‘bells and whistles’ filters.

To me a filter with a easily removable external prefilter is a godsend for filter maintenance.

Likewise the inclusion of a heater so that I don’t have to include one in the tank, or rely on a flaky in-line one (adding even more potential leak points) is a real asset too.

I agree fundamentally that an external filter is a pump in a bucket, but I don’t think that additional features are always gimmicks if they actually work well to make life easier for the owner.


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Ivan Stoyanov said:


> So you think better to remove all mechanical inside the filter and left only on pre-filter, the flow for sure will be better


or just clean the filter weekly, which is what I do with FX6 on hightech 500Litre. If the sponges are clean when you clean it just extended the cleaning period.


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## zozo (15 Mar 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> Have manufacturers tried to be too clever with their external filter designs?



Not with the filter design, it's fake development and clever marketing to make people buy it. And to have a healthy competition with other manufacturers.. And this concerns whatever product you can think of, Cars, cellphones, laptops, all could simply be looking the same it would not differ in functionality or purpose.

But, we are living in an era with a consumption society. And if you want a larger crowd and most of them to consume the most as possible you also have to address the people that are always looking for something different. I guess this is driven by people's competitive nature to want something better looking or allegedly better functioning than what the other has.
It's a form of Mass Psychology... 

Therefore never read beauty magazines, they only make you feel ugly.  I'm too sexy for your filter.


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2021)

Hi all,


Ivan Stoyanov said:


> So you think better to remove all mechanical inside the filter and left only on pre-filter, the flow for sure will be better


That is what I do. I can't always maintain the tanks and I use <"really substantial foam blocks"> as a pre-filter.


Wookii said:


> To me a filter with a easily removable external prefilter is a godsend for filter maintenance.....Likewise the inclusion of a heater


Yes I'd agree with that, for most people that is well worth trading for an extra set of gaskets.  I just want people to use a pre-filter, for me I can hide it (and the heater) in the tank. 


Zeus. said:


> or just clean the filter weekly,


Same applies, if you are happy doing that then it is a good option. 

cheers Darrel


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## Paulus (15 Mar 2021)

Looking for a new/upgrade filter here for the new tank.
Now still using the eheim classic 2217.
But looking for an upgrade makes you wonder, why all these weird options on filters these days?
Flow bypasses, wifi connections etc.....

I just want a filter that has a good flow, room for filtermedia, easy maintenance, maybe an inline heater and quiet. Not all the other gimmick stuff


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2021)

Hi all, 


Paulus said:


> But looking for an upgrade makes you wonder, why all these weird options on filters these days?
> Flow bypasses, wifi connections etc.....


Yes, <"WiFi (or BlueTooth)"> connectivity is something else I don't want with filters or lights. 


Paulus said:


> I just want a filter that has a good flow, room for filtermedia, easy maintenance, maybe an inline heater and quiet. Not all the other gimmick stuff


Hopefully enough people will think that and a manufacturer <"will actually produce that sort of filter">. 

cheers Darrel


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## john dory (15 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> I’ll put my neck on the line and be the lone voice in support for the ‘bells and whistles’ filters.
> 
> To me a filter with a easily removable external prefilter is a godsend for filter maintenance.
> 
> ...


Whole heartedly agree.
Never had any problems with filters,in the 35 years I've been keeping fish..but the biomaster 600t,trumps anything I've had,in the past.
The ease of maintenance,plus the inbuilt heater are 2 features I could no longer be without.


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Inline heaters and prefilters are great, however its another two joints and pipe fittings and getting them all in the cabinet is a PITA. So filter thats does ticks many boxes. 


dw1305 said:


> Yes, <"WiFi (or BlueTooth)"> connectivity is something else I don't want with filters or lights.



But nice to have IMO- RJ45 socket would be my preference giving rpm of motor and amps being drawn would be nice 🤣, OTT but has its uses 😉


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## Aqua sobriquet (15 Mar 2021)

I’ve been running an Eheim 2213 which is the only size in the Classic range that has a media basket. It seems like a good idea and I used it to start with. It became apparent though that some of the water bypasses the bottom of the basket and goes up the outside, depositing detritus onto the top of the media. Not a big deal but not what I expected to happen. I’ve now removed the media basket and just stacked the foams and media directly into the canister.
I also have two other external filters, a Tetra and a Sera and they both exhibit a certain amount of bypass as well. This has made the biological media physically dirtier than it should have got. I’m not sure if this is of concern or not but it didn’t happen in my old filters 20+ years ago.


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## tiger15 (15 Mar 2021)

I think all filters that have external plumbing are vulnerable to leak.  If sturdy home plumbing can leak, so can but more vulnerable with flexible hoses, clamps, O ring and connectors in external filters.   External filters include all canister and sump filters with external hoses.  Filter plumbing can fail mechanically from wear and tear, and from human error due to repeated assembly and disassembly in cleaning. There is no superior canister brand that will never fail.

I have 75 and 125 gal show tanks on hardwood floor in my living area.  I notice that canister is most popular with planted tanks, and sump filter for big tanks over 100 gal.   I chose not to have either as I’m paranoid of flooding and tank draining accidents, and the only sure way to prevent accident is to avoid filters with external plumbing.  My choice of filters are double HOBs for my 75 and triple HOBs for my 125, and both have CO2 reactors driven by power head.  With zero external plumbing,  I can sleep well at night.


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Planning to have all filters/pumps/reactors/CO2/heaters in room below tanks when I move as new house has extensive cellar/garage below living area. So two/four hoses/pipes going though floor and all filters/pumps/reactors/CO2/heaters at working height in cellar/garage - well that's the plan


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> Planning to have all filters/pumps/reactors/CO2/heaters in room below tanks when I move as new house has extensive cellar/garage below living area. So two/four hoses/pipes going though floor and all filters/pumps/reactors/CO2/heaters at working height in cellar/garage - well that's the plan



Sounds like a shared sump would work Karl?


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> Sounds like a shared sump would work Karl



A Canister is a Sump with a lid , but yes may do a sump


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> A Canister is a Sump with a lid , but yes may do a sump



Lol not really - it will allow you much more flexibility, and multiple return pumps for different tanks. It is the way I intend to go we end up moving to somewhere I can utilise a centralised ‘processing’ room (read; utility room).


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## Zeus. (15 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> it will allow you much more flexibility, and multiple return pumps for different tanks. It is the way I intend to go we end up moving to somewhere I can utilise a centralised ‘processing’ room



Tanks will not be that close, plus wife not keens on the word 'tanks' and prefers 'tank' - So I have put four in the Google Sketchup I have done so far to keep her on her toes





Plus spares in cellar/garage😇


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## tiger15 (16 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> A Canister is a Sump with a lid , but yes may do a sump


A canister is very different from a sump system with a lid.  A canister system is closed and pressurized.   When a canister leaks, it can shoot out a fountain, and can go anaerobic in extended power outage .   A sump system is open to the atmosphere, and stays aerobic even in power outage.

I am not sure how you pipe your sump system to the basement.  Hard plumbing with drilled holes and PVC pipe is safer than flexible hose with overflow box.  In either case, it is not energy efficient as it is necessary to pump water up pipes to overcome gravity and frictional head loss.  

The safest place to place tanks is in the basement where flooding is less damaging and won't make a big mess.  But then no one can appreciate it in hidden basement, so it was my dilemma to move my show tanks up onto my living area.  My choice of HOBs isn't the prettiest nor low maintenance system, but likely the safest and energy efficient one.


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## robinj (17 Mar 2021)

IMHO, the ideal would be to have some kind of a bathroom drain directly close or under the tank. I think it would be easy to do in the house with crawl space. The other thing is aesthetics...
It will not save everything, but there will not be hundred of litres on the floor.


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