# Dutch Nature style



## Yo-han (4 Jun 2013)

Being Dutch and leaving the paths of my ancestors, I explored nature style. Made half a dozen scapes till now and some failed rigorously, others just missed the X factor. From Iwagumi till collecteritus, but I'll show you the latest (almost) 400L tank. Remember most pictures are just mobile made and not meant for posting.

I'm looking for critcism. I like the right half but the left half is a little week IMO. Maybe it needs more wood. And I also think it is because the P. erectus is a little rigid (bad choice of words). Easy thing would be pulling it out and replacing it with the green Rotala, but perhaps someone else has a good suggestion. Here some progress pictures:


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## tim (4 Jun 2013)

Like it a lot mate, mix the rotala and erectus maybe for a more balanced look.


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## Yo-han (4 Jun 2013)

Might look better but with the huge difference in growth speed it would be quite hard to maintain I guess...


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## stu_ (4 Jun 2013)

This is epic.
Personally i really like the Pogostemon.
One observation, is the 'circular' gap in the wood, dead centre is the thing i'm drawn to straight away.
Is that _T.Espei_ & _P.Simulans _in there? Very nice


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## tim (4 Jun 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Might look better but with the huge difference in growth speed it would be quite hard to maintain I guess...


That's why you have scissor's my friend


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## Yo-han (4 Jun 2013)

stu_ said:


> This is epic.
> Personally i really like the Pogostemon.
> One observation, is the 'circular' gap in the wood, dead centre is the thing i'm drawn to straight away.
> Is that _T.Espei_ & _P.Simulans _in there? Very nice


 
Yes, and H. herbertaxelrodi, others:
10 N. marginatus (and some N. marginatus picturatus) which are all over 5 years old
x number of Otocinclus
Caridina parvidentata and amano shrimp
6 Corydoras sterbai and 1 invincible C. leucomelas of at least 7 years old
5 Kuhlli's
2 Jordanella floridae
1 Panaqolus maccus
1 Aplocheilichtys normani which was given to me and fortunately doesn't jump


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## plantbrain (5 Jun 2013)

I tend to view the hardscaping if Nature style as the most aesthetically pleasing aspect.
Dutch has a lot of colors and nice groups, but why limit to that?

The nature style also has some very Dutch like background plantings, so I would use that in the rear.
Lots of nice color, yellows reds, greens.

Mid: wood/hardscape.Ferns etc, then nice ordered groupings, they can repeat etc if you wish, or cut a longer line than NBAT rules certainly.........and then the foreground.
Transitions with Staro/Bylxa etc will do nicely.

Never been much of a purist, never cared enough about it to go that direction.
I reckon folks have already done plenty of such tanks already.


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## Yo-han (5 Jun 2013)

The background planting is quite dutch indeed. Mixing plants make them hard to sell, so maybe I need to let go that idea... 

I like the Pogostemon as well but it doesn't match with the right side IMO. But time enough for IAPLC deadline


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## Yo-han (6 Jun 2013)

stu_ said:


> This is epic.
> Personally i really like the Pogostemon.
> One observation, is the 'circular' gap in the wood, dead centre is the thing i'm drawn to straight away.
> Is that _T.Espei_ & _P.Simulans _in there? Very nice


 
Today is the first time I noticed that the right piece of wood has tumbled. Didn't notice it until I looked back on the first pictures.So the circular gap wasn't planned


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## Yo-han (10 Jun 2013)

Repositioned the wood today. Placed a large crypto on the left to have a better transition between foreground and Pogostemon. And some trimming and a water change. The result:


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## Yo-han (11 Jun 2013)

A better shot:


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## flygja (11 Jun 2013)

Thats looking really nice. Could you share what lighting set you have? It looks nice and sleek too. Thanks.


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## George Farmer (11 Jun 2013)

Hi Yo-han,

You have a lovely tank - nice plants, good hardscape, overall impression is pleasing...



Yo-han said:


> I'm looking for critcism.


But it lacks some strong midground planting, particularly on the left and right. From the photo I can see some crypts I think, but they are not bold enough.

The main impact is the very low foreground planting (glosso), then straight into the lovely tall stems. The contrast is too much and needs some transitional planting. Crypts are great for this (also Bylxa if you want finer textures) but I think you need more and they need to come forward. Another option would be to use some stones between the glosso and stems.

I also think the centre of the layout could be improved. It's a little messy with no real structure. Consider having glosso running all the way to the back of the tank and removing all other visible planting in the central area between the wood to emphasise the open space that is framed by your lovely hardscape. You could further enhance the sense of depth by sloping the substrate further in the centre. This is why you see so many sand pathways etc. in Nature Aquarium style aquascaping, as it's a great way to give an illusion of further depth.

Moss on the wood would work well too.

These are just some of my ideas and are Nature Aquarium-bias. You asked for criticism - I hope you find it constructive. 

Cheers,
George


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## Ian Holdich (12 Jun 2013)

Good critique George...

Have shared this scape on the ukaps Facebook page.


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## GillesF (12 Jun 2013)

Hi Yo-han

Good to see you here too! Your tank looks awesome, nice & lush growth in there. I'll share it on our Facebook-page! 

Cheers
Gilles


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## Yo-han (12 Jun 2013)

George Farmer said:


> But it lacks some strong midground planting, particularly on the left and right. From the photo I can see some crypts I think, but they are not bold enough.


 
I fully agree, I did placed a C. pontederiifolia on the left already but it is still small. Maybe I need to place another big one on the right as well indeed.



George Farmer said:


> The main impact is the very low foreground planting (glosso), then straight into the lovely tall stems. The contrast is too much and needs some transitional planting. Crypts are great for this (also Bylxa if you want finer textures) but I think you need more and they need to come forward. Another option would be to use some stones between the glosso and stems.


 
Very good suggestion. The crypts are too much below the wood, placing them a little forward might be a good idea to improve the transition.



George Farmer said:


> I also think the centre of the layout could be improved. It's a little messy with no real structure. Consider having glosso running all the way to the back of the tank and removing all other visible planting in the central area between the wood to emphasise the open space that is framed by your lovely hardscape. You could further enhance the sense of depth by sloping the substrate further in the centre. This is why you see so many sand pathways etc. in Nature Aquarium style aquascaping, as it's a great way to give an illusion of further depth.


 
The glosso running all the way to the back was the original idea. I planted it but it didn't grow there, maybe too much shade. So I replaced them with Staurogyne, another plan was to make a sand path, but this is more work to keep nice.



George Farmer said:


> Moss on the wood would work well too. These are just some of my ideas and are Nature Aquarium-bias. You asked for criticism - I hope you find it constructive.


 
More moss? Love the wood, wouldn't it ruin the hardscape?

Constructive? Yes, thank you!


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## George Farmer (12 Jun 2013)

Yo-han said:


> More moss? Love the wood, wouldn't it ruin the hardscape?


I haven't seen many examples of moss ruining hardscape if done nicely. On the contrary - it can compliment it.


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## Yo-han (23 Jun 2013)

Added a few Crypts to the midground. Will need to make some time for extra moss. The more I look at it, the bolder the wood looks and it needs Fissidens!

Experimented with some backgrounds.
No background:




White background (may need some backlighting): (corrected version)




Black background:




Opinions appreciated!


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## Mike Edwardes (23 Jun 2013)

It's a matter of taste. I've always had black backgrounds in my tanks but I nearly always wind up with a crowded jungle-style planting - not too dissimilar to your nice tank. The white backgrounds do look good in the (to my view) sparsely planted Amano-style tanks.


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## mede (24 Jun 2013)

For me it's definitely the black background... much more peaceful and relaxing to look at.

What a beautiful tank you have! (seen it before on a Dutch forum).


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## Brian Murphy (24 Jun 2013)

Looks great ..... what dimensions are your tank and what filters and other equipment have you used in your set up i.e. Co2, glassware etc?


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## George Farmer (24 Jun 2013)

I think I prefer the white background but unfortunately your photo is very underexposed. 

I hope you don't mind but I have corrected it a little in Photoshop... 

The 'scape is coming along very nicely too.


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## Yo-han (24 Jun 2013)

George Farmer said:


> I think I prefer the white background but unfortunately your photo is very underexposed.
> 
> I hope you don't mind but I have corrected it a little...
> 
> ...


 
I know, I didn't notice this on my pc, but saw it when I posted them. I was planning to correct it this evening so you saved me some work, thanks!


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## Yo-han (24 Jun 2013)

Murf said:


> Looks great ..... what dimensions are your tank and what filters and other equipment have you used in your set up i.e. Co2, glassware etc?


 
Thanks! Dimensions: 120x60x55 (a little less than 400L). Eheim 2080 with inline heater and CO2 reactor. And an inline Wave Stream 2200 to help the Eheim because I lost a lot of flow. No more glassware, I broke two inlets. All steel pipes now. Custom made, because I didn't knew there were steel pipes back than.



flygja said:


> Thats looking really nice. Could you share what lighting set you have? It looks nice and sleek too. Thanks.


 
Aqualight F1, 6x54W. Made them dimmable and not running full power all the time anymore.


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## Yo-han (25 Jun 2013)

Next step will be adding extra Fissidens to the wood. Don't feel like taking it out and tying everything to the wood. But I did used super-glue before to attach moss. Really worked well but I only did this in new setups where I changed water a few times before fish came in. Now thinking about doing it while conducting a large water change but will this harm the fish/shrimp?


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## plantbrain (25 Jun 2013)

I think perhaps Rotala sp "green" in both corners might give a nice feel and they are easier to trim and deal with over time. 
You can make nice domes and they send nice bright green runners through the wood, giving and matching feel.

This is a bit of the nature style, but some cross over with contrast with Dutch plant groups side by side.

Mid ground needs work still. 2-3 species perhaps and nice thick growth that can handle plants shading them from above. 
the Blyxa would look good for one of the plants. Maybe some tighter grouped Crypts. 

Fissidens will contrast well, but it sloughs off and you'll find it everywhere over time. 
Very hard to remove from wood if you want total removal.

I would try to simplify the midground some. I'd keep the L. arcurata.


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## Yo-han (25 Jun 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Mid ground needs work still. 2-3 species perhaps and nice thick growth that can handle plants shading them from above. the Blyxa would look good for one of the plants. Maybe some tighter grouped Crypts.


 
There are a lot of crypts beneath the wood. They just need to fill in or be placed more forward. I love them, never seen such a nice waxy layer on them before 



plantbrain said:


> Fissidens will contrast well, but it sloughs off and you'll find it everywhere over time. Very hard to remove from wood if you want total removal.


 
I find this to be true for regular moss way more. Ones I trimmed this, it would take over the carpet. No problem with Fissidens so far. But total removal from the wood will be a totally different story indeed. Tropica sells it as an high light plant, in need of 4 WPG according to the label. It even grows in the darkest corner in my tank so no problem here.


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## Ady34 (26 Jun 2013)

I too like the white background for photos, but day to day viewing the black would be easier on the eye maybe.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I really like the pogostemon at the rear, its kind of forest like which works well with the wood. I'd be inclined to do the same at the right rear for some continuity and keep the arcuata mixed in there also for a colour contrast.....perhaps the pogostemon doesnt give that full bush effect of say rotala that fills in the space between the wood but I like it none the less, it gives a strong backdrop 
I can see what others are saying about the midground, your crypts are like you say perhaps a little too far back. Maybe bringing them forward and adding some bolbitis or larger leaved Anubias in the shade with the crypts slightly in front will add an extra layer of depth.
I really do like this scape though, and I think the constructive comments of George and Tom are testament to its potential 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## plantbrain (26 Jun 2013)

I'm not feeling the Pogo here, but, I like the plant.
The Rotala green and then the Red acurata billowing up and over the Rotala green would give a nice effect.
The pogo has such an ordered look to it, you might find it as a mid ground location perhaps, anyway, ponder some species swaps and see what you can cook up that looks nice.
The central hole needs a very dark moss feel with the white background in the back, that will add to it.


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## Yo-han (26 Jun 2013)

plantbrain said:


> I'm not feeling the Pogo here, but, I like the plant.
> The Rotala green and then the Red acurata billowing up and over the Rotala green would give a nice effect.
> The pogo has such an ordered look to it, you might find it as a mid ground location perhaps, anyway, ponder some species swaps and see what you can cook up that looks nice.
> The central hole needs a very dark moss feel with the white background in the back, that will add to it.


 
Thats exactly how I feel, I love the pogo but not really in this setup. The whole back with Rotalas and similar leaved plants would make it way better IMO, but can't dump the lovely erectus

Any thoughts on glueing moss in a filled tank (during water change)?


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## plantbrain (26 Jun 2013)

Super glue works well, the Reef folks have long used it.
I would just use cotton thread personally for moss.
Then re tie it a few times as it grows out, then it'll be well attached, eg, you'll never get it off.

Another plant is Rotala wallichii, that will make a nice over arching pink/red color in the background to off set all the green, and will give a brighter feel to the tank. 
Another thing you could do to brighten the effect without adding the different color plants: white sand in the foreground.
Add small moss stones between the Crypts and the sand.

This will really brighten the display up a lot.

So you have a few options.

I have many love hate relationships with plant species, but they all get the axe if they are troublesome or do not look right, and I'll change things till they do look right.


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## Yo-han (26 Jun 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Another thing you could do to brighten the effect without adding the different color plants: white sand in the foreground.


 
Stop it! Now you start sounding like my girlfriend!  She really loves sand in the front. She even prefers the aqua soil bare over my beautiful glosso carpet




plantbrain said:


> I have many love hate relationships with plant species, but they all get the axe if they are troublesome or do not look right, and I'll change things till they do look right.


 
I've been worse! Really suffered collecturitus for some time (see picture below) but than I was still learning to grow plants and trying out different methods (EI, ADA, RR even some MCI for a very short while). But still find it hard to get rid of certain plants, like the Rotala mexicana 'goias' in front is not adding anything, but it's rare and I like it for later maybe (blablabla excuses)


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## plantbrain (29 Jun 2013)

You can grow plants easily and cheaply for use emergent if you cannot let it go.
R. mexicana goias is fairly common these days. the Red Australian form of R. mexicana is not.


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## Yo-han (8 Jul 2013)

Kept fertilizing but not much time to do anything, little update picture:


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## tim (8 Jul 2013)

Nice Johan, but you seem to have lost the sense of depth the clearing in the off centre created, get your scissors out mate


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## Yo-han (8 Jul 2013)

I know 26 degree and 0 clouds out here last few days. Enjoying my former love fishing (carp fishing and fly fishing) so will trim thursday when the weather is less beautiful


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## killi69 (8 Jul 2013)

Really like your tank Johan.  I am with Ady and prefer the black background to white. Much more natural ithink and shows off the colours of your fish better. Am following this. Regards, Andre.


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## Yo-han (12 Jul 2013)

Thanks Andre!



plantbrain said:


> You can grow plants easily and cheaply for use emergent if you cannot let it go.
> R. mexicana goias is fairly common these days. the Red Australian form of R. mexicana is not.


Do remember that rare is very relative. I can buy Althernathera 'mini' and Hygrophila sp. 'red' in every shop here, in gel, in pots etc. While in the US you pay 50 dollar a portion


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## plantbrain (12 Jul 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Thanks Andre!
> 
> 
> Do remember that rare is very relative. I can buy Althernathera 'mini' and Hygrophila sp. 'red' in every shop here, in gel, in pots etc. While in the US you pay 50 dollar a portion


 


Funny story about the 50$ a stem rates: someone asked me how much I was selling mine for, as a JOKE, I said 50$ a stem.
The next day, 2-3 people suddenly posted the 50$ stem rates.

True story, they fell for the joke.  Then wondered why few people bought anything. It is an easy plant to propagate.


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## Yo-han (13 Jul 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Funny story about the 50$ a stem rates: someone asked me how much I was selling mine for, as a JOKE, I said 50$ a stem.
> The next day, 2-3 people suddenly posted the 50$ stem rates.
> 
> True story, they fell for the joke. Then wondered why few people bought anything. It is an easy plant to propagate.


 
Haha, I sent a lot of gel cups to the USA and these were sold for 50 dollar a piece so maybe not per stem, but at least per portion.


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## plantbrain (14 Jul 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Haha, I sent a lot of gel cups to the USA and these were sold for 50 dollar a piece so maybe not per stem, but at least per portion.


 

So it was you that is to blame eh?

Do you have a pic of the Hygro red?


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## Yo-han (6 Aug 2013)

Used the black background for a few weeks. Really loved the look, but unfortunately my plants did not. The Rotala sp. 'green' and P. erectus lost most leaves in the lower half. The growth of R. mexicana 'Araguaia' slowed down significantly. The Persicaria sp. 'Sao Paolo' turned more orange than red/purple and the leaves became way smaller and lost the big lower leaves as well. Nothing else changed regarding nutrients etc. Only the black background blocking light. Changed it back to see whether it was really due to the background but I'm quite sure.


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## flygja (7 Aug 2013)

Interesting, I actually never thought about that before. My tank has a black plastic backing attached and it will be quite difficult to remove without pulling the entire tank and cabinet away from the wall.


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## Yo-han (7 Aug 2013)

Very hard in such case indeed. But all those in tank backgrounds do the same; take away light from the lower part of the plant.


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## alanyusupov (7 Aug 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Used the black background for a few weeks. Really loved the look, but unfortunately my plants did not. The Rotala sp. 'green' and P. erectus lost most leaves in the lower half. The growth of R. mexicana 'Araguaia' slowed down significantly. The Persicaria sp. 'Sao Paolo' turned more orange than red/purple and the leaves became way smaller and lost the big lower leaves as well. Nothing else changed regarding nutrients etc. Only the black background blocking light. Changed it back to see whether it was really due to the background but I'm quite sure.


Hi Johan
Is your Sao Paolo is this





or looking like this?




Regards
Alan


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## Yo-han (7 Aug 2013)

Unfortunately probably more like the second. Something I was questioning for a while now but I kept calling it 'Sao Paolo' because this way it is marketed by Dennerle. But I do wonder whether it is sp. 'Kawagoeanum' like you do. At least I never had the color pop that purple like in your picture and the leaves grow always a little up instead of down like the real 'Sao Paolo'!


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## alanyusupov (8 Aug 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Unfortunately probably more like the second. Something I was questioning for a while now but I kept calling it 'Sao Paolo' because this way it is marketed by Dennerle. But I do wonder whether it is sp. 'Kawagoeanum' like you do. At least I never had the color pop that purple like in your picture and the leaves grow always a little up instead of down like the real 'Sao Paolo'!


Is not only Dennerly, Tropica do same thing with plants name
Micranthemum(?) sp. "Montecarlo-3" : Neue und besondere Wasserpflanzen - Seite 2 - Aquascaping - Aquarium - Wasserpflanzen - Flowgrow
Regards
Alan


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## Yo-han (8 Aug 2013)

Yep, all nurseries do. I always believed the Ammania 'bonsai' from Tropica was the real Rotala indica. The Dutch ones are a real pain in the *ss. They sell about half the plants under different names


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## Martin in Holland (10 Sep 2013)

Yo-han said:


> Yep, all nurseries do. I always believed the Ammania 'bonsai' from Tropica was the real Rotala indica. The Dutch ones are a real pain in the *ss. They sell about half the plants under different names


 Be happy you don't have to get your plants from China....they don't even know Latin names, just some made-up at the spot names like: easy red or butterfly dot... LOL....Here I can only look at the plant and hope it's the right one. I don't even know the name of half of the plants I have in my tank.


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## Yo-han (10 Sep 2013)

Haha, agreed! Will be hard to know whether they grow fast, tall or are very difficult in that case. Still we should be happy to be able to buy plants in shops. I know people in Afrika and that means driving hundreds of kilometers to a shop to find 10 plants.


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## Yo-han (19 Sep 2013)

Plantwise not much changed but last week we received a batch of beautiful Sphaerichthys vaillanti. Couldn't leave them in the shop so I took 6 home. 4 females and 2 males as I assumed, but one male shows very pale vertical bars right now so I assume this is a female as well. The light from my aquarium was still dim when I shot this, so not a very good picture but I needed to share it:


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## Martin in Holland (19 Sep 2013)

handsome looking fish....


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## Trevor Pleco (10 Oct 2013)

That your scape looks superb whether its's a white or a black ground is a great compliment for starters.. 
Perhaps go for white when it comes to a comp tank shot as then the branches create a stronger focus point than with black. You could try some stones and decide from there, but not missing them..


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## Yo-han (25 Oct 2013)

Little update! The wood was overgrown by trident so I sold half of it. Now you can see the Bolbitus again Normally I trim most plants, but I pulled out all stems in the back and replant the tips because the bottoms where getting old. This is how it looks now:




A better picture will follow soon I hope, not much time right now...


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## Yo-han (29 Oct 2013)

1 week difference:


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## Yo-han (5 Dec 2013)

Latest update. From this:





To this:


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## parotet (5 Dec 2013)

Love it! Can you please tell us which species are in this last layout? I guess you have less species than before but looks much better... looks now really wild


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## Yo-han (5 Dec 2013)

Haha, there are even more species. I think over 30 right now


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## flygja (6 Dec 2013)

Did you take pictures of how you changed from substrate to white sand? I'm thinking of doing the same in my own tank, seeing as how my cories and discus love ripping hair grass during feeding time.

Its probably a messy process but will appreciate pictures.


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## Yo-han (6 Dec 2013)

I do have a few phone pictures. Basically I removed the glosso, sucked the aquasoil away with a hose and poored sand in the tank. Removing the aquasoil (with substrate below) was the most messy job and clouded the tank for a day. No big deal however. Here is a small timelaps:


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## Yo-han (12 Dec 2013)

parotet said:


> Love it! Can you please tell us which species are in this last layout? I guess you have less species than before but looks much better... looks now really wild


 
Here you go:
_Epiphytes:_
Anubias barteri nana 'petite'
Anubias barteri nana 'white'
Anubias barteri nana 'marbled'
Anubias barteri nana 'wavy'
Anubias barteri nana 'yellow heart'
Anubias barteri 'coffeefolia'
Anubias barteri var. 'glabra' (minima)
Bucephalandra motleyana 'Pancuraji'
Bolbitis heudelotii (2 forms)
Microsorum pteropus 'trident'
Fissidens fontanus

_Foreground:_
Blyxa japonica
Cryptocoryne x willissi
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia
Cryptocoryne walkeri
Cryptocoryne beckettii 'petchii'
Cryptocoryne sp. 'Flamingo'
Glossostigma elatinoides
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Marsilea sp.
Staurogyne repens

_Stems:_
Limnophila aromatica (2 forms)
Limnophila hippuridiodes
Myriophyllum simulans
Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum'
Rotala sp. 'green'
Rotala sp. 'Kramer'
Rotala sp. 'Vietnam'
Rotala sp. 'Yao Yai'
Rotala sp. 'Singapore'
Rotala mexicana 'Goias'
Rotala mexicana 'Araguaia'
Rotala mexicana 'Bangladesh'
Rotala nanjenshan 'colorata'

So over 30 species indeed


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## parotet (12 Dec 2013)

wow!!!! Incredible!!!! I thought the epiphyte with narrow leaves was java fern "narrow", but now I see that it is a jungle of other java fern "trident" and some more ferns! Thank you very much for taking your time to write the list


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## Yo-han (12 Dec 2013)

parotet said:


> wow!!!! Incredible!!!! I thought the epiphyte with narrow leaves was java fern "narrow", but now I see that it is a jungle of other java fern "trident" and some more ferns! Thank you very much for taking your time to write the list


 

Yes, I used to keep narrow, but I found it to be too wide. I was thinking about swapping to needle leaf but that gets huge. I don't really like the trident shape, but its barely visible when it takes over the tank and it looks like a small version of needle leaf this way


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## jose_j (21 Jan 2014)

Hi Yo-han,

your set up is great! In your plant species list you say that there are two forms of Limnophila aromatica, I really like this plant but I did not know that different forms can be found. Of course if you find the time to do so, would you mind to upload some pictures showing the main differences? Are them commercialized by different plant nurseries?

Thank you very much in advanced!!
Jose


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## Yo-han (21 Jan 2014)

Thnx! First, all L. aromatica plants previously known to us are probably L. hippuridiodes. The second aromatica form I own turned out to be hippuridiodes as well. The larger one in the back, more red, is the L. aromatica from Tropica. The stems in the front are L. hippuridiodes from Tropica and L. aromatica from Dutch nurseries. The second picture shows an aromatica from an Asian market. So different than the Tropica version (which has 4 leaves per whorl, vs 3 leaves per whorl for the Asian market version)


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## jose_j (22 Jan 2014)

Thank you very much Yo-han for your detailed explanation!


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## Yo-han (4 Feb 2014)

I honestly regret replacing the foreground. The fish keep throwing soil on the sand and thus it looks even less beautiful. Think with all my corys and kuhliis I need to throw up a barricade. What do you think that looks better?


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## parotet (4 Feb 2014)

What about small patches of a carpeting plant covering some parts of the sand? I am considering this for my tank as these strict barriers between sand and soil look quite unnatural.


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## Yo-han (4 Feb 2014)

Well, in nature, you often see a sandy bottom, with rocks along the rivershore and plants behind the rocks, so it isn't very unnatural but it can appear harsh.


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## flygja (5 Feb 2014)

Some rocks tied with moss make good substrate-sand barriers. It's a bit of a pain to trim once it gets bushy, but at least you can remove it from the tank, trim in a small clear plastic container with water, then put it back into the tank.


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## Yo-han (21 Feb 2014)

I realized it's a long time ago I updated this with picture. This is because I'm building a paludarium. My Vietnamese biotope and nano planted tank will be gone, and the fish will be transferred to the paludarium with poison dart frogs in the upper layer. Not interesting for this forum, so here are a few pictures of my new fish and overgrown tank (over a month since the last trim):
Rotala's everywhere (I can't show a front shot right now, it is a mess!): 



The pencils and other fish love it:



Bought a couple of ramirezi which already laid eggs in the tank in my lfs:



And bought 5 Dicrossus gladicauda, which are starting to mature, so I hope they are really gladicauda and not filamentosus:




And added 15 Hyphessobrycon sp. 'red blue peru' lovely fish, but I don't got any nice pictures yet.


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## aliclarke86 (22 Feb 2014)

Hey Johan I'm very interested in the paludarium. Do you have a journal on another site?

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## Yo-han (22 Feb 2014)

Yes I do at dendroboard: https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&sour...jn1su62emz59x87zw&sig2=BaIntSyXTiH1fZFpINDjsw

Not much to see yet, I just started to work on the hardscape. Lots of work!


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## Omegatron (27 Mar 2014)

Great journal Johan! tank looks great. Time for an update?


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## Yo-han (27 Mar 2014)

Not much to update, I'm moving end of may, so am very busy and keeping the plants and fish happy, but the plants are overgrown and the sand and soil are all mixed up.

The Dicrossus gladicauda I bought grew up being filamentosus, so a little disappointed but still some lovely fish. I hope all plants and fish survive the move! After I moved, I'll be updating again. I already made the drawing for the new setup. But without an elevator my biggest challenge will be getting the tank (and everything) down (4th floor).


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## aliclarke86 (12 Apr 2014)

Woah, I don't envy that. I just moved but that was from the 1st floor!! All went well though  has your paludarium been put on hold too?

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## Yo-han (13 Apr 2014)

The paludarium is on hold indeed. Although I went to the Dutch frog convention today I did bought a few nice ferns.

And considering a new aquarium. Something like this:



It will be bigger and I want a sump in the room next to it. But not sure whether I will really do this.


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## Yo-han (14 Apr 2014)

Lets say I do make an aquarium like this. The length will be 185cm (length of the wall) and I want a depth of 80-90cm. But what height would you make it if it was yours? 50 will be the minimum, 90 the max...


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## killi69 (14 Apr 2014)

Hi Johan. I find in my 5x2x2 (60cm) that i can only just about reach the bottom back of my tank so would be very careful about making a tank higher and deeper. I suppose it depends on how long your arms are - some tall Dutch guys could add an extra 20 cm compared to me lol. 

I too dream of a larger tank but would either make it just longer (with 60cm height and width) or make it a lot deeper but not longer and ensure  access from both sides so you can get to the back/ middle of your tank. Unless you build tank into the wall and can also reach it from the room behind!  The higher the tank the shorter your reach though.


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## Alastair (14 Apr 2014)

Yo-han said:


> Lets say I do make an aquarium like this. The length will be 185cm (length of the wall) and I want a depth of 80-90cm. But what height would you make it if it was yours? 50 will be the minimum, 90 the max...



Id go 50 or 60 max. mine is 100cm front to back and 70cm high and I get soaked plus its hard to reach all areas especially rear centre


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## aliclarke86 (14 Apr 2014)

I agree with Al, you want maximum impact with minimum stress 

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## Yo-han (14 Apr 2014)

killi69 said:


> Hi Johan. I find in my 5x2x2 (60cm) that i can only just about reach the bottom back of my tank so would be very careful about making a tank higher and deeper. I suppose it depends on how long your arms are - some tall Dutch guys could add an extra 20 cm compared to me lol.
> 
> I too dream of a larger tank but would either make it just longer (with 60cm height and width) or make it a lot deeper but not longer and ensure  access from both sides so you can get to the back/ middle of your tank. Unless you build tank into the wall and can also reach it from the room behind!  The higher the tank the shorter your reach though.



I'm over 6 foot, with proportional arms I now own a 120x60x55 (4x2x2) so I get what you mean



Alastair said:


> Id go 50 or 60 max. mine is 100cm front to back and 70cm high and I get soaked plus its hard to reach all areas especially rear centre



This was my main concern. I was hoping a few people would say the extra height was worth the trouble


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## Alastair (14 Apr 2014)

Yo-han said:


> I'm over 6 foot, with proportional arms I now own a 120x60x55 (4x2x2) so I get what you mean
> 
> 
> 
> This was my main concern. I was hoping a few people would say the extra height was worth the trouble


Ha ha. Yes its worth going swimming for


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## Yo-han (15 Apr 2014)

Alastair said:


> Ha ha. Yes its worth going swimming for



So why did you adviced against it first? You want your tank to be bigger than mine?


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## Edvet (15 Apr 2014)

If you want it to be a planted tank it will be hard to reach over 60, mine is 75 high, 80 deep on left side and 120 deep on right side. I can reach first 1/3 easily, midle 1/3 with difficultly and back 1/3 only barely, if i want to realy work there i need diving goggles. And going high tech over 1000 liter isn't easy, you need lots of CO2 and it's not easy to get flow everywhere.


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## NC10 (15 Apr 2014)

Echo what everyone else has said really. Mines 60 as well and wouldn't want to go any deeper.

You may want to consider the height of the stand as well. Even though I can reach to the bottom, I still have get on tip toes or pull the steps out to realistically reach the bottom. When just stood at the side, when I put my arm in the tank is sort of mid way up my upper arm meaning I only have the depth of my lower arm.

If I'd have realised this when I built the stand, I'd have built to a height were the top of the tank went up into my armpit when standing beside it, so I'd be able to reach freely into the tank without have to get the steps out.

Hope that makes sense 

Edit: My tank/stand total height is 143cm. I should have gone for around 131 total height I reckon.


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## Yo-han (15 Apr 2014)

Edvet said:


> If you want it to be a planted tank it will be hard to reach over 60, mine is 75 high, 80 deep on left side and 120 deep on right side. I can reach first 1/3 easily, midle 1/3 with difficultly and back 1/3 only barely, if i want to realy work there i need diving goggles. And going high tech over 1000 liter isn't easy, you need lots of CO2 and it's not easy to get flow everywhere.



CO2 won't be an issue. I have acces to free 10kg bottles. And I don't reccon flow to be either. 2 X 5000 L/h will tackle that. Maintenance will be the main issue. It won't be accessible from the back. Umzz...


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## Yo-han (15 Apr 2014)

NC10 said:


> Echo what everyone else has said really. Mines 60 as well and wouldn't want to go any deeper.
> 
> You may want to consider the height of the stand as well. Even though I can reach to the bottom, I still have get on tip toes or pull the steps out to realistically reach the bottom. When just stood at the side, when I put my arm in the tank is sort of mid way up my upper arm meaning I only have the depth of my lower arm.
> 
> ...



That is exactly what I did with my current tank. It is 135cm, I took my armpit as reference as well


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## NC10 (15 Apr 2014)

Just use your arm as the reference for the max depth you can go then. Who needs a tape measure?


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## Edvet (15 Apr 2014)

I have a 3000 liter pond pump going from sump to tank, a 6000 lit and a 12000 lit Koralia alternating. I have plenty of power but it's hard to get a nice flow everywhere without putting all plants in the middle of a fast flowing river.[DOUBLEPOST=1397561493][/DOUBLEPOST]37641454_00005139 by Edvet, on Flickr
I need stairs to reach the bottom front. Sometimes i have to stand in the tank to work at the right side or behind the tank


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## Martin in Holland (15 Apr 2014)

I love this kind of pictures....see more than just the inside of a tank, but tells a whole story


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## Yo-han (15 Apr 2014)

Edvet said:


> I have a 3000 liter pond pump going from sump to tank, a 6000 lit and a 12000 lit Koralia alternating. I have plenty of power but it's hard to get a nice flow everywhere without putting all plants in the middle of a fast flowing river.[DOUBLEPOST=1397561493][/DOUBLEPOST]37641454_00005139 by Edvet, on Flickr
> I need stairs to reach the bottom front. Sometimes i have to stand in the tank to work at the right side or behind the tank



That is exactly what I want! (Except for the colors, I'm sorry to say, but they don't match your interiour) 

Perhaps the tank should be a little lower (or you're a very small guy). But the general idea is what I love to have as well. Perhaps I need to invite myself when I'm close to Lelystad


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## killi69 (15 Apr 2014)

NC10 said:


> You may want to consider the height of the stand as well. Even though I can reach to the bottom, I still have get on tip toes or pull the steps out to realistically reach the bottom. When just stood at the side, when I put my arm in the tank is sort of mid way up my upper arm meaning I only have the depth of my lower arm.
> If I'd have realised this when I built the stand, I'd have built to a height were the top of the tank went up into my armpit when standing beside it, so I'd be able to reach freely into the tank without have to get the steps out.
> Hope that makes sense
> Edit: My tank/stand total height is 143cm. I should have gone for around 131 total height I reckon.



If you are willing to use a step ladder or something, the height of cabinet becomes less of an issue (but still is a bit of a hassle to pull it out - I keep mine folded up under the sofa next to the tank)


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## Edvet (15 Apr 2014)

You're welcome


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