# White cloud mountain minnows



## Fisher2007 (2 Mar 2020)

Wondering what peoples thoughts are on these in a high tech tank?  I know they are more of a cooler water fish but the tank will be run at 22 degrees

Also, are they known for jumping?

A LFS has some of the normal colour but long tail variant and the males look fanastic when they display

Thanks


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## Angelfishguy99 (2 Mar 2020)

I will be following along as i've been thinking of either a group of
WCMM (longfin)
Endlers
or 
Kubatai rasboras


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## zozo (2 Mar 2020)

I've adopted a small group last summer and never had them before, till now they have been in an open-top tank and to me they don't seem to be jumpers. None of them did. Even tho they are very lively and curious fish constantly on the move all over the place and interacting with everything in their surroundings. For example, they like to hunt shrimps, but that's more out of curiosity and or playfulness, yet not seen them pray on them. 

They are nice fish to keep, beautiful colours and interesting behaviour to observe.


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## Gill (2 Mar 2020)

They will be fine at that temp, have kept them higher in the past. I Have ordered some of the Longfin aswell, Hope that they are the New strain which has a deeper yellow in the males finnage with the red fringing.


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## zozo (2 Mar 2020)

Angelfishguy99 said:


> Kubatai rasboras



I've had over 30 of them but all die within a relatively short period, 3 batches of 10 each in 3 years time. And I have none left at the time. They do not seem to live a long life, at least not in captivity. I know from the wholesaler i ordered them from they exclusivey come as wild caught specimen.

Nice fish, but not for long.. 

This actually goes for most of the boraras/rasbora sp. available. They are rather short-lived in my experience.

Something to take into consideration regarding the price you pay


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## Angelfishguy99 (2 Mar 2020)

zozo said:


> I've had over 30 of them but all die within a relatively short period



Oh that doesn't sound too good. I was sort of at ends with them as my tank is going to be mainly green that i was thinking that they would just just of blend in and be unnoticeable rather than complement it. I think the WCMM are a really underrated fish and i have never kept Endlers before so i guess its down to either of those 2 then. Thanks for your input.


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## MWood (2 Mar 2020)

zozo said:


> This actually goes for most of the boraras/rasbora sp. available. They are rather short-lived in my experience



I agree... though I have a nearly 5 year old B brigittae, the others died off after a year or so. Constantly amazes me.


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## mort (3 Mar 2020)

I keep wcmm in an unheated tank. This time of year it's about 18c but in the summer it ran about 28c for a few weeks and probably averaged 24c over a 6 month period and they were fine.
They are in a riparian tank that's only half full, so they couldn't jump out, but I've never even seen them try to jump. Saying that I know others who have had them jump out but that's pretty common for most fish species. The biggest issue is changes in lighting so if you can gently ramp up your lighting and then ramp them down, plus have some surface cover, you will have a greater chance of getting away with an open top.


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## Fisher2007 (3 Mar 2020)

Thanks for the advice all.  They are on the hit list!  Will post some pics in due course


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## alto (3 Mar 2020)

There are tank bred M kubotai and various other Boraras sp now available but they are more expensive than the wc option so few shops bring them in
One lfs has ordered the TB kubotai so I’m interested to see what arrives (& price)

M kubotai is oxygen sensitive (& CO2 sensitive), wild fish are accustomed to very clean running water (re SF re collection location), my oldest is ~3yr

From
*Kottelat, M. and K.-E. Witte, 1999* - Journal of South Asian Natural History 4(1): 49-56
Two new species of _Microrasbora_ from Thailand and Myanmar, with two new generic names for small southeast Asian cyprinid fishes (Teleostei: Cyprinidae).

M kubotai is less difficult to keep than some of the other species discussed in this paper 

Observing the “M kubotai” that arrive in shipments, I’d guess there are at least 3 species that ship are that name


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## Millns84 (26 Mar 2020)

They'll be fine at that temp.

I kept 20 in an unheated biorb 105 for a couple of years, subsequently heated to 22 and couldn't stop them spawning... It was constant and I had to rescue fry a couple of times a week from the undergravel filter.

I think they're really underrated fish. Beautiful colours which get better as they reach adulthood.


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## PARAGUAY (27 Mar 2020)

Most older books and articles describe WCMM as the poor mans Neon Tetra due to difficulty in importing Neons( at that time and mostly wild specimens not bred in captivity easily). I always feel the comparison is bit unfair. If WCMMs were a very rare and hard to breed fish pretty sure they would create quite a interest as such as newly discovered catfish and tetras. It's a" bread and butter fish " but a great favourite IMO


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## Millns84 (27 Mar 2020)

PARAGUAY said:


> Most older books and articles describe WCMM as the poor mans Neon Tetra due to difficulty in importing Neons( at that time and mostly wild specimens not bred in captivity easily). I always feel the comparison is bit unfair. If WCMMs were a very rare and hard to breed fish pretty sure they would create quite a interest as such as newly discovered catfish and tetras. It's a" bread and butter fish " but a great favourite IMO



I think times have changed. I've seen neons for a little as 75p each, which is less than half of what I see WCMM going for.

They're so much hardier than neons too, can't remember the last time I saw good healthy neons...


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## MWood (27 Mar 2020)

Worth mentioning Tanichthys micagemmae too! Not kept them myself but one I'd like to give a go in future.


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## Fisher2007 (27 Mar 2020)

The minnows have settled in nicely and the tank is growing in well.  I think they're great, lively, showing to each other all the time and good colours.  They are the long fin variety


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## mort (27 Mar 2020)

I think those are the only long finned fish I actually like.


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## Fisher2007 (27 Mar 2020)

mort said:


> I think those are the only long finned fish I actually like.



Completely agree.  I'm normally pretty traditional witj my fish choices, wanting the wild look


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## sparkyweasel (27 Mar 2020)

Same here. Those wcmm are not over the top, just a bit longer finned than normal. Very nice.


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## tiger15 (27 Mar 2020)

The original WCM came from White Cloud Mountain streams of southern China that are extinct in the wild due to pollution.  But there are no shortage of WCM in the hobby as they are bred by million in fish farms, and some have naturalized in non native habitats.  They are subtropical species and prefer cooler temp to thrive.  If you are afraid they don’t do well in tropical setting, try Brilliant Rasboras which look and behave like WCM.  They school tightly in the upper water column as WCM, peaceful, and slightly larger.


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## Gill (28 Mar 2020)

Fisher2007 said:


> View attachment 132810



looking at the 2 males sparring. It looks like you got lucky and got one of the new yellow finned ones, or is it just the lighting.


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## Fisher2007 (28 Mar 2020)

Gill said:


> looking at the 2 males sparring. It looks like you got lucky and got one of the new yellow finned ones, or is it just the lighting.



Just lighting I think but I'll take a closer look when the lights come on in an hour


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## Fisher2007 (28 Mar 2020)

Gill said:


> looking at the 2 males sparring. It looks like you got lucky and got one of the new yellow finned ones, or is it just the lighting.



No yellow fins Gill.  Just the light playing tricks


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## killi69 (10 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> The original WCM came from White Cloud Mountain streams of southern China that are extinct in the wild due to pollution.  But there are no shortage of WCM in the hobby as they are bred by million in fish farms, and some have naturalized in non native habitats.  They are subtropical species and prefer cooler temp to thrive.  If you are afraid they don’t do well in tropical setting, try Brilliant Rasboras which look and behave like WCM.  They school tightly in the upper water column as WCM, peaceful, and slightly larger.


Totally agree. Subtropical and temperate fish often need temperature changes and a colder period.  They will live shorter lives if kept warm all year. I keep mine outdoors all year round and their colours dont compare with the ones from an aquarium. The downside of course is you dont really get to see them in a pond    My uncle in the east of Holland had a pond full of them for years and the winters there are colder than here.


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