# LED advice?



## Polly (10 Apr 2015)

Hi all, it's been a while since I've posted, but still lurking.

For a long while now, I've been wanting to change the lighting over my Juwel Rio 125 (2x T8s) over to LED.   But I also want to not make the living room look as if a UFO has landed    LOL  So, for various reasons, I'd like to keep the original lid too.

I also don't want a stark white light that reduces all the colours of my fish.  From what I've read, the plants won't really care what colour the lights are, as long as there is light.

The tank -   Rio 125 with Juwel filter.  Cat Litter substrate which has been great for the fish and plants, but I hate the terracotta colour, so have been looking for an alternative that will be dark but essentially the same. Looks like Colombo Flora Base Black is a possibility, just mulling that over.

The plants -  currently lots (and I mean lots!) of Rotala indica, java fern, anubias, a couple of amazon swords and some crypts.   If I do change the  substrate, I'll  be ordering more plants to add variety.

I've been running  the tank as a low light,  low tech and it's working, apart from the rotala going nuts and having to be cut back.  Algae is present,  but only a little, have had to wait quite a while to be able to buy a couple of algae eating fish 

So, on to the  Lights.

Having spent quite some time looking online, the Arcadia Classica Stretch 60cm looks promising, the blurb mentioning enhancing  the red and blue colours of the fish. But do I need one or two for a low light tank?   And how to fix the light  under the lid?  

Has anyone done this successfully ?  (diy is not a problem, OH is a dab hand and would do a good job)

Are there any other options that I may have missed?   I'm not planning to spend  £000s on this, if I did, I'd spend it upgrading the tank 

Anyway, thanks for reading


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## GreenNeedle (10 Apr 2015)

From the blurb on their site you would need 2.  I would suggest that the luminaire above a 125 would be about 45cm and their PAR reading is 15 for the 50mm.  Seems pretty low PAR to me.

I wouldn't advise fitting a retail LED unit within a hood.  The casing on LED units is not just for aesthetics.  The whole of the back will have been designed as heatsinking and fitting it into a lid would heat the lid up a lot.  You would also have heat problems in the summer months.

One of the advantages of LED is that whilst they get very hot, the heat is directed away from the tank through the heatsinks whilst traditional light by their nature radiate heat all around them.  So an LED unit within a hood will trap that heat in.

When I have put LEDs within a hood (DIY) I have made a false ceiling within the hood where the LEDs are seated and the heatsinks behind and then used fans to move air in through one end and out the other.


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## alto (10 Apr 2015)

Arcadia offers the Eco-Aqua LED lighting upgrade that slots into T8 fittings (I thought there was another option as well but cant seem to find it)


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## Polly (10 Apr 2015)

Thanks Supercoley, good point about the unit being a heatsink too.   I have LED lighting everywhere in the house and completely forgot about that in my excitement at finding these lights - Doh!

Thanks alto, I saw those, but apart from not being able to find the tropical one to buy (one tropical, and one daylight)  they are completely the wrong size for my  holders - I have 600mm tubes, so they would either be far too small, or far too long   unless I rip out the ballast and holders, which kind of misses the point with just buying the led tubes :-/

Or is it that I should buying the smaller tubes and somehow fixing them in, although I can't see how?

Maybe I should contact Arcadia?


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## tigertim (10 Apr 2015)

a friend has the Arcadia Classica Stretch but it is low light imho......i personally use the overhanging Fluval Led luminiere which gives great results plant wise....not cheap though


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## greenmac75 (10 Apr 2015)

one is stretch is not enough, you will have dark corners.
the fish do look good under them(neons and galaxy rasbroas)


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## Polly (11 Apr 2015)

Thanks tiger tim and greenmac.

Lowlight is fine, the tank is low tech, and the fish will appreciate it.  The plants are mostly low light too.   

I liked the length of the 'stretch' - at least it is as long as my present lamps.

Good to know the fish look good under the stretch, no point in pretty fish if their colours are lost because of the lighting.


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## alto (11 Apr 2015)

Polly said:


> Thanks alto, I saw those, but apart from not being able to find the tropical one to buy (one tropical, and one daylight)  they are completely the wrong size for my  holders - I have 600mm tubes, so they would either be far too small, or far too long   unless I rip out the ballast and holders, which kind of misses the point with just buying the led tubes :-/


Sorry for the confusion, poor choice in links, try reading through this page - with the adapter clips, the LED tubes should just "click in" (for most standard length tubes)
You might also check with Juwel & see if they will have a lighting upgrade out soon


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## karla (11 Apr 2015)

I recently brought the small 11w stretch, it is very nicely made but the controller is a bit cheap. Also the light from it takes some getting used to, but plants do look pretty under it. I found it too low light to use only one, even in a nano tank like mine, Good value for money but not if you have to buy two and possibly an extra controller. 
I'm saving mine back for a low tech setup. I still think T8's work better though.


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## ian_m (12 Apr 2015)

Polly said:


> the Arcadia Classica Stretch 60cm looks promising


These are lower lighting than T8 tubes, I have seen them in action against a single tube T8 and T8 is certainly brighter. They quote 15PAR at 400mm, a single T8 is about the same if not more than this. See graph below. With two tubes and reflectors you will be getting maybe 80PAR odd. So bit of a downgrade really.




 

If you want more light, upgrade to T5 with reflector and this  will take you into high light. Juwel T5 light unit for Rio 125 is £80 inc tubes on Ebay.

Even easier are these http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/a...antis-easy-led-universal-lighting-freshwater/

The 590mm is £113 and uses the existing T8 tube holders and they are equivalent to T5 output. Dimmer might be required as well.

Once again shows cheap LED's are cheap and can't really be compared to T8 and T5.


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## Polly (12 Apr 2015)

Thanks alto, that page makes more sense of trying to fix them in    - If I can locate some, still haven't found anyone who actually have them in stock 

Have emailed Juwel but no reply       I'm astonished that there wasn't even a stock reply.   I know where I will be spending my money, and it won't be with a company which can't even be bothered to talk to potential and existing customers.   I have to say, I'm impressed with the communication between Arcadia and forum members.  It makes good commercial sense to _listen_ to what your customers actually want.  So my next email is going to be to Arcadia 


ian m,

I don't want _more_ light, it's about energy use   I have LED lighting all over the house and the aquarium now uses more energy in lighting than my living room with several wall lamps! 

From what I've been reading, comparing the perceived light output between fluorescent tubes and LED tubes isn't really a good guide as the light given out by each type is different.

As this is a low light low tech aquarium, I have no need of high output lamps, but I do want them to show the colours of the fish and plants to their best.  The fish I keep actually look better in lower light or shaded light, when their iridescence can be better seen


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## karla (12 Apr 2015)

Hi polly, do not want to promote my journal but this pic shows the color spectrum of the stretch fairly well, the only editing to the pic was increasing the exposure slightly but this is very close to what I could see by eye.
It does bring out color very nicely.


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## Polly (13 Apr 2015)

Thanks karla.   That looks realy lovely and the plants certainly responded to the LED lighting


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## ian_m (13 Apr 2015)

Polly said:


> I have LED lighting everywhere in the house


Do bare in mind that most LED's are generally less efficient than T5 HO tubes.

A good quality T5 HO tube will produce 80-90 Lumens/watt compared to 30 Lumens per watt for smaller LED packages. This is why industry still uses fluorescent tubes, more light per watt (and considerably cheaper) and cheaper LED aquarium fixtures are not that bright.

However if you move to higher power LED's (and serious cost) 1.5Watt, 3Watt and above LED's, these are generally start at 100 lumen per watt.


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## Polly (21 Apr 2015)

Have spoken to both Juwel and Arcadia.

Arcadia, because their Eco Aqua lamps are just about unobtainable.  This is because they are discontinued!  But they now make the Classica LED lamp as a retrofit for T8 systems with a magnetic ballast, which looks just the ticket - except Juwel have just confirmed that my T8 light bar has an electronic ballast -  AAAARrrgh


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## ian_m (21 Apr 2015)

Easy option, just use Juwel T5 lights, £90 odd including tubes. Done.
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/juwel-highlite-28w-light-unit-80cm-p-1544.html

Double the light output with reflectors as well...now need to be very careful or you will get algae with this light level.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JUWEL-AQU...t=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2ecaaf0634


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## Polly (21 Apr 2015)

> .now need to be very careful or you will get algae with this light level



And that's why I didn't just go out and buy the Juwel T5 light bar 

I want LED because of the look and the LONG TERM ENERGY SAVING, I have a low light tank for the same reason.  It's all in my first post really    (tablet playing up, can't do italics)


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## karla (21 Apr 2015)

Lighting and getting the right lighting is the most infuriating aspect of this hobby I think. They are either too dark too bright, too expensive or unobtainable, lighting has always been an issue for me.


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## ian_m (21 Apr 2015)

Polly said:


> LONG TERM ENERGY SAVING


But this is certainly not true for cheap LED's. Cheap LED lights are only 30lumens per Watt compared to 80-90 lumens per Watt for T5HO. However "big boy" and "big expensive" LED's easily start at 100 lumens per Watt and higher. Though it is a very moot point you will ever cover your costs for the extra 20 lumens per watt you may get compared to T5 HO.

However if you like the LED light produced and have easy dimmable control then go for it, but choosing aquarium LED so as to save energy should not be a reason.


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## EnderUK (21 Apr 2015)

If it's not broke don't fix it? Sounds that your tank is working Polly.


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## Polly (21 Apr 2015)

> choosing aquarium LED so as to save energy should not be a reason



Why not?

I swapped all the living room lights to IKEA LEDs -  the very definition of cheap, so by your reasoning, not going to get brighter light or save money.

However, I can now read at night, something I couldn't do with CFLs, I can also work effectively - I'm an artist, I need good light to work in, my work lamp is LED.    In addition, I have already paid for the outlay in money saved 2 years down the line.   In the first year, we saved so much on energy that powergen came and changed our practically brand new meter.  They thought it was broken!   Turns out it wasn't, we had simply changed from CFL lighting to LEDs.   The savings have continued and our lights are still bright.

We did have to change the bulbs for smaller ones in the kitchen though - it looked as if a UFO had landed LOL

Now, I want to do the same with the aquarium,  as I don't have a high light requirement for it, I think it's a workable scheme.

EnderUK,

I can see where you're coming from      Thing is though, I've had this scape for 6 years, it has evolved some, but I hated the terracotta colour of the substrate even at the beginning.   I just wanted to see how cat litter would perform.  Turns out, it performs extremely well, if you like the colour 

So the search for LED lighting, is part of a rescape.   New substrate (dark/black), new plants, new lighting.    I find myself with the time to do this now, in a few weeks, I'll be too busy


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