# Triangle and Convex Layout Question



## Clemson13 (2 Jun 2018)

Hello,

First post here. I am reaching out from the U.S. since aquascaping is a bit less popular here. I am trying my best to imitate the late Mr. Amano to the best of my ability. I have a 470 liter aquarium that measures 180cm x 45cm x 50 cm. The tank is situated in the corner of the room, so I would like to do a triangle layout which is what Amano's books mention doing when a tank is in the corner. I also find this layout the most appealing.

My issue is the tank uses a corner matten filter for filtration. The corner that would need to be planted has 20cm of space taken up by the sponge. I do not really want to change the filtration (The pressurized co2 system blew the budget!) See picture below for an example of the corner filter. 

Sorry to post something so trivial. I am torn on trying the triangle layout, but offset from the corner (I can't find any examples of this) or just going with a convex layout to make maintenance easier and bypass the issue altogether. Good convex layouts are hard to find! And even Amano said convex is one of the more difficult layouts to achieve a good look.

I already have plants so unfortunately I can't take everything down and take my time. The plants have been growing like crazy for 4 weeks and it is time to get in there and trim/rescape soon.

Anyone care to share their opinion?


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## Gill (2 Jun 2018)

Rachel Oleary has a scaped tank using a HMF, have a look for ideas.


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## Zeus. (2 Jun 2018)

Hi and welcome.

500l tank similar size to mine in Sig.

Hard to comment as you haven't told us much apparatus from the corner filter.

Could do with some details like pump output, any powerheads etc light, substrate, ferts photoperiod, DC fitted? Done a pH profile?

My tank grew great at first with a pump/filter output of 6500+lph but as the plant biomass increases the flow is an issue on mine ATM IMO.

My concern would be if you only have the one single output pipe as in pic I don't think it will cope long term giving enough turnover of water to maintain stable [CO2] and distribution.

A pic of tank would help, gives lots of info

Zeus


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## Clemson13 (2 Jun 2018)

Zeus. said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> 500l tank similar size to mine in Sig.
> 
> ...



Your aquarium is really nice!

As it stands, the tank is just a wall of plants. I literally just tried to get everything into the tank and growing while I read more about scaping, plant care, etc. 

Equipment:
Sicce pump rated at 2150 L/hour
eheim surface skimmer
Open to adding powerheads as needed
Lighting is on the medium side, roughly 50-70 at substrate level.
Following EI method
Photoperiod is currently 9 hours
Inert pool filter sand for substrate
Gh and kH are 2-3dh. TDS/conductivity varies by season, 120-300 microS so the water is fairly soft. I have not tracked pH on this tank. 
The output of the filter is current beside the sponge, but I can move the output wherever I need to via 3/4" hose. 

I am not too worried about the equipment side of things. I can make adjustments as needed as things grow out. I just don't know if I can pull off a nice triangle layout with stems in the background and the hardscape dominated by java fern/bolbitis with the sponge eating up so much of the corner. Most of the really nice scapes that I see have the substrate built up pretty high in the corner. I would not be able to do that unless I used acrylic or something to hold the sand off of the sponge. And even then it would be hard to get that feeling of depth since the hardscape and plants would be closer to the glass on that side. Hope that makes sense? 

Do convex layouts lend themselves to smaller tanks? Most of the ones I see and really like are small tanks. 

I would like to try and imitate something like these tanks :


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## Zeus. (3 Jun 2018)

Clemson13 said:


> Do convex layouts lend themselves to smaller tanks? Most of the ones I see and really like are small tanks.



No.Its just smaller high tech tanks arent as difficult and less work to maintain on a weekly basis. Plus a small tank can be made to look big with careful scaping a plant choice positioning which is the art of aquascaping. You like myself have started with a big tank high tech wise, which I was advised against and I would give the same advise myself after having had one for 16 months.

Think trying to do the scape your after is going to be very difficult with the corner filter you have and the foam will always have its presence seen plus walling of the substrate will be a nightmare when you come to clean the foam.

One option could be to see how you go on growing the plants in your tank save some money read lots and plan to get an external filter etc, then when ready get the scalpel out and remove the corner filter then the the scape your after. Having had the experience of growing the plants in your tank will pay off in the long term. Plus gives you time to find the right scaping rocks and wood which is never good to rush esp if on a budget. Cost me about £1000 to get my Rocks Wood and Aquasiol  from The Green Machine here in the UK 



Clemson13 said:


> Sicce pump rated at 2150 L/hour
> eheim surface skimmer



The general rule of x10 turnover to tank size is what is general advise. So with a 475l tank thats 4750lph. Its not a hard rule but it makes up for pumps outptuts not being what they are stated, your turnover like mine is going to hit a wall IMO when the plants fill in and then melting leaves due to poor CO2 ditrubution will be the number one cause, but forwarned is forarmed,  In a non CO2 tank the turn over would be fine.

But a lot also depends on you light output which light? 9hrs photo period is a long time

whats your BPS for the CO2 and do you have a Drop Checker (DC)

Hope that helps


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## Clemson13 (3 Jun 2018)

I think you convinced me.

I stripped the tank down last night to just the substrate. I'm going to play around with the wood and rock I have today to see if I can come up with a pleasing convex/island style layout. That would allow the corner filter to function normally and give me several options for flow down the road. I think open sand on both sides is just easier to maintain in general and I wont have to worry about stacking substrate next to the sponge. I am starting with lots of stems just because they are so much cheaper to fill a tank in with and keep algae at bay. I have bolbitis and java fern trident that I will slowly let dominate the tank. As the ferns grow in I can pull out stems to reduce pruning time. If the corner filter just ends up being a mess I can switch to a canister. I just hate them on large tanks. I like sumps on larger tanks, but the current location did not really work for one.

Lighting is via (6) 23watt cfl bulbs in dome fixtures. I have a canopy so the lights are hidden. PAR data for the bulbs lines up with my LUX meter readings. I'm getting 50+ PAR at the substrate. I was shooting for medium light so things moved a bit slower I have NOT mastered reading a bubble counter! I am running a pretty high bubble count and judge CO2 levels based on the drop checker and livestock. I am slowly increasing CO2. But I also have pretty good surface agitation.  I started out with a rex griggs reactor, but had issues priming it after water changes. So two weeks ago I switched to in tank glass diffusers. My filter output blows the bubbles around so I get a pretty good idea of what flow looks like. Currently, the bubbles get distributed across the whole tank. 

This tank is very much a trial run/experiment. If I enjoy the high tech side of the hobby then I will spring for a drilled rimless tank once we move homes and go for the authentic ADA look.


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