# Tropica Fert Advise



## Paulo Soares (16 Mar 2016)

Dear friends,

Need some opinions from you.
First let´s point the entire set up in order for you to make an opinion more precise.

*TANK*
160L (100x40x40) 130L Efetctive

* LIGHTS*
Odyssea T5 4x39w  4* 6500 K
87 Lumens / liter
Start/End from *15 PM till 23 PM*

*FILTER*
EHEIM professionel 4+ 600
Equo Stilla (3 Ceramics baskets)

Pretty much flow.



*CO2*
Regulator with solenoide “CO2ART”
ADA Difuser 40 MM Pollen Beetle
Start / End from *10 Am till 21 PM*



*HARDSCAPE*
ADA La Plata Sand
Black Pagoda Stone 15 KG
Red Moor Wood

*SUBSTRATE*
9 Liter Tropica Growth Substrate
9 Liter Tropica Aquarium Soil
3 Liter Tropica Soil Powder

*FERTILIZATION:*
Tropica Specialized Plus Tropica Premium

Scheme:




*WATER CHEMISTRY*
RO OSMOSIS
KH = 3º
GH = 3º

All plants are Tropica´s culture and most of ½ Grow and they are:
Echinodorus Bleheri, Staurogyne Repens, Althernanthera Mini, Eleocharis Parvula, Eleocharis Mini, Amannia Bonsai, Rotala Rotundifolia, Nymphoides Taywan, Taxyphillum Spiky, Christmas Moss, Pogostemon Helferi, Echinodorus Quadricostatus, Echinodorus Reni, Didiplis Diandra, and finally Hidrocotyle Tripartida but this last one is not Tropica´s culture.

*And for the first time i´m using Tropica Specialized Fertilizer and also Tropica Premium.*

So i´m not too familiar yet with this fertilizers.
I´m following the scheme above I did myself. Take a look at it please.

And I was following George Farmer, Oliver Knott, Pascale, Victor Lanktos, and others and I conclude by the set up´s of their own tanks that they all mostly use an amount of Tropica´s ferts that are around 60 to 80 ML ML of Specialized and 40 to 50 ML of Premium *for each 100 Liter*. This is the measure they all pretty much use (more or less). And so I´m guiding my self from these figures cause I have no experience at all with Tropica Ferts

Now the issue:
My Echinodorus Bleheri and My Staurogyne Repens are a little bit transparent and a bit brown as photos show.







Tropica says in their website that *“**light leaves often indicate lack of nutrition, but can also be due to poor growth. Echinodorus bleheri is a typical example of lack of micro-nutrients”*

That´s why I bought the Bleheri for this tank. To be able to follow her as a guide for all plants as they recommend in the website.

I would appreciate some opinions concerning my fertilization method.

Do you friends believe the scheme i´m following (see photo) is good or does it need a modification?
What can I do to prevent this issue on my Bleheri and Staurogyne?
What is your advise?
Should i way for plants to adapt even more remembering the tank as 15 days only yet?
Are plants still adaptating?
I am already given 90 ML a week of SPECIALIZED fert.  - *Should I increase even more the SPECIALIZED?*

I do believe a “little” something is wrong with my ferts but I didn´t want to make any change without consulting opinions cause I do not have much issues with the tank , I have growth, although these symptoms in these two plants.

But I also believe that if I don´t correct now this problem my Bleheri will go much worst or even the other plants.

Some testing i made just in case: Giving 90 Ml and 40 Ml / week of Specialized and Premium i obtain pretty good values or Iron in the test but NO3 and PO4 is almost zero. That´s why i´m asking if i should increase evem more the dose.



Many many thanks for any advise you can provide.

Yours Truly
Paulo Soares


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## parotet (16 Mar 2016)

Hi Paulo

Just a few remarks after my experience with these ferts and soil:

- 15 days is the very beginning, let the tank get established before changing things. 
- plants are definitely adapting to submerged form and/or your tank conditions. I set up a tank more or less 20 days ago and some Cryptocoryne (as well as most plants) are beginning now to grow the new leaves that are really adapted to the tank (they are completely different in color and shape to the original ones). My guess is that your Echinoderus and Staurogyne leaves which show problem are old leaves, not new growth. Some of these old leaves will never adapt to the new conditions and will have to be trimmed. Don't use them as indicators.
- 8 hours of light is IMO too much for just 15 days. During the first month I have in all my tanks 6 hours. The sign to slowly increase 30 minutes per week is when I can see steady growth and enough biomass.
- Tropica advices not to use ferts until the 20th day (which of course is a rule of thumb, don't need to be that precise). When I use enriched soils like the ones you are using, I don't add micros sometimes until the first month. The substrate (depending on how much you have and your chemistry) are releasing plenty of them. Your plants growth and biomass is still low, the nutrient consumption is not that high.
- Regarding micros, add at the beginning the recommended dose (if you want a bit more, it won't hurt) and wait one week... it may actually take a week to see how plants react to the ferts. Then change if needed. IME using Tropica Premium I have always double dosed (not from the beginning, but once the tank is established), but this is not strange. Tropica has to give an average dosing for everyone, and not all the people have medium-strong lights, densely planted tanks with high co2. Just take it with a grain of salt, it may be half the dose, double dose or even a bit more. 
- I personally don't add macros (Tropica Specialized) unless I see some signs of N deficiency (light green-whitish leaves... I'm sorry I cannot tell you if your plants lack of it by the pictures, but I suspect they are non adapted leaves. See what happens in new ones) and when my tanks are at their final stage with huge amounts of biomass. Even in these situations I am very carefully adding macros. I don't want very fast growth in my tanks (=more work, more water changes, more trimming, I am not an EI fanboy. I don't want too much ferts in my water column and I prefer to rely on enriched substrates. A good sign that I have to add some squirts to the tank are the green spot algae on the front glass or slow growing plants (Anubias). In that case, I follow Tropica dose and if needed I double dose (which in my experience bring you to a "more than enough growth rate")
- I don't trust nutrient kits... as everyone in the hobby I bought some to try to fix my problems, but kit readings are meaningless for your tank management. What if you read 0, 5 or 10 ppm? Is it good, bad? Are you really measuring NO3 or PO4? (the answer is NO). Where are you measuring this? Does it mean that this nutrient is not available elsewhere, in another moment, in another form? They will tell you nothing that you cannot see with your eyes. Additionally aquarium tests are really bad (low accuracy, no consistency between readings). I have even used laboratory grade ones from work for PO4... but once again the results were not useful. Tanks can do very well or very bad with very different levels on the water column. EI followers do have lush tanks adding 40 ppm of NO3 to the water column daily, ADA followers do the same without adding a single ppm of it... do we need to measure anything?

In a few words: patience and observe new growth (new leaves, not old leaves that you will probably have to trim because the will never get adapted). Once you have steady growth, change things little by little. I would begin just with micros and at the recommended dose. Then I would go for more if required, both in quantity and type of nutrients

Oh my, what a long post... 

Jordi


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## john dory (16 Mar 2016)

My echinodorus have the brown aspect to their leaves when they are new...but it disappears as the leaf matures.


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## zozo (16 Mar 2016)

I'm using Tropica PG for about a year now and i experienced my Echinodorus realy loving some extra root feeding.. Despite the use of tropica i had some issues with this plant lik eyou have, transparent leaves melting away.. And after a half a year into the process of growing it i added some root tabs and it took off like a rocket and now a few months later it's even growing emersed way bigger as it's described size and it just wont stop it seems.

This indicates to me that echinodorus rather is a root feeder than a water collum feeder.


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## john dory (16 Mar 2016)

I grew mine in sand,and they did very well.I did add root tabs a few months ago...and they still do very well.


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## Paulo Soares (17 Mar 2016)

Jordi, John, Zozo, 

I took under great consideration your observations. I have those present in mind. All you´ve said cross my mind. I´m really taking "eagle eyes" on the new leaves.  

Those are my reference for now. So in accordance to your considerations and mine too I´m going to reduce the photoperiod and probably disconect one bulb only. I think 4 times T5 may be quite something.

Reduce a bit that amount of light and photoperiod and wait plants to adapt better. Maybe i´m speeding too much here. 

From the heart many thanks to you all.


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