# Pregnant Cherry Shrimp Death



## Lemsip (21 Jan 2012)

Had cherry shrimp for a few months now which are happily breeding.

However I've had two deaths over a month, both females late into pregnancy and strongest in colouration. Searching around on other forums this does seem to happen to others - anyone have any idea why it may specifically happen to the pregnant females? (prone to stress etc?) Or is it just coincidence?

Water params are safe, only concern is I dose easycarbo very lightly.


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## Lemsip (29 Jan 2012)

Bumping as another heavily pregnant death today - anyone have any experience of this? This is after stopping Easycarbo dosage, not sure what it could be.


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## malawistu (30 Jan 2012)

I've never had a problems with easy carbo and cherry shrimps have you done a water change just before the deaths


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## Lemsip (30 Jan 2012)

Yes weekly 30% water changes, but these were not just before deaths - there has been no other change to the water other than those.


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## Dincho (30 Jan 2012)

Have you tested GH lately?

Its sounds growth related. As the shrimp has been carrying eggs for 4 weeks she would not have molted, i suspect a calcium deficiency but this is just a guess without knowing more. Any chance of posting your water parameters?


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## Lemsip (30 Jan 2012)

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 60
PH - 7.2
GH - 18
KH - 11

I'm assuming the GH/KH values are very high - I was not fully expecting to be able to breed shrimp in it. (Definitely not CRS without RO water).

Could this be the cause? All the other shrimp/shrimplets seem to be fine. Thanks for help so far.


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## Viv (30 Jan 2012)

I doubt it Lemsip. My GH and KH are even higher than yours and my rcs are breeding fine.

Viv


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## Dincho (31 Jan 2012)

Agree with Viv, parameters don't matter with cherries. The nitrates are sky high, that's a big issue. You need to be aiming for a max of 5 for nitrate, even thats too high. 

High nitrates lower the immune system of shrimp, preganant shrimp are always more sensitive anyway. Lower your nitrates, i'm 99.9% sure thats your issue.


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## Lemsip (31 Jan 2012)

Ahhh - my tap water has nitrates of 80 (according to the API test which I've heard is a bit fiddly when it comes to measuring nitrates, unless I am doing it wrong). Is there much else I can do without using distilled/RO water?


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## Themuleous (31 Jan 2012)

I've had this happen, no apparent reason.  Just one of those things.  I doubt it'll be anything to do with the water param's. 80ppm NO3 isn't all that high really.  I dare say mine is a hell of a lot higher!

Sam


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## PeteA (31 Jan 2012)

Lemsip said:
			
		

> Ahhh - my tap water has nitrates of 80 (according to the API test which I've heard is a bit fiddly when it comes to measuring nitrates, unless I am doing it wrong). Is there much else I can do without using distilled/RO water?



Yes, get your local water supplier to check that out!  Legal limit is 50 out of the tap.


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## Themuleous (31 Jan 2012)

You can download the water report for your area from your water company, they have to provide it by law.

Sam


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## Lemsip (31 Jan 2012)

http://www.thameswater.co.uk/water-qual ... entral.pdf

Redid the nitrate tests, a bit tricky since the difference on the API kit between 40-80 is quite small. But it is definitely higher than 40 from the tap.

Anyone else use this kit? Do you hold it straight against the card, or up against some paper/backlight etc?

Thanks for the input - not too worried but wanted to check just in case it was something serious as the best females are being taken out.


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## Viv (31 Jan 2012)

I've got the API master kit. I hold the tube against the card with daylight shining onto it to get a reading. I'd give your water authority a ring and see what they say about it. It sounds like they are pushing the legal limit for nitrates if not breaking it!!

Viv


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## Themuleous (31 Jan 2012)

I doubt our hobby test kits are all that accurate, if the water quality report says lower than 50ppm, I'b believe that over my test kit (whatever the brand).

Sam


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## PeteA (1 Feb 2012)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> I doubt our hobby test kits are all that accurate, if the water quality report says lower than 50ppm, I'b believe that over my test kit (whatever the brand).
> 
> Sam



I'd not necessarily take the water report at face value, it's not going to be redone regularly and isn't reflective of what's out of your tap.  It's possible there's a seepage of industrial fertiliser or something between the reservoir and your house.

@Lemsip:  That report has a range of 20ppm~34ppm, so you should be able to detect that with the API master kit.  However it might be you get an ambiguous or incorrect result (they aren't that accurate).  Personally I'd take a tap water sample into a LFS and get them to check it.  If it's also high with their test kit, contact the water board and get them to come out and test it out of your tap as there could be a genuine issue.


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## Themuleous (1 Feb 2012)

LFS tend to use the hobby kits as well, so might be worth asking before you get them to do it, I see some are charing for it now as well.  

Good idea to phone the water company if you've got a genuine concern though

Sam


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## hotweldfire (1 Feb 2012)

Agreed, you can't trust the test kits. Different brands have given me fundamentally different results on the same sample of water. London tap water is pretty full of nitrates though (and all sorts of other nasties) so I've switched to just RO.


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## Lemsip (1 Feb 2012)

Just noticed another death, this time a female with eggs developing in the saddle. Is this possibly an infection? None of the males/young are dying (well from what I can notice but I can see alot of the tank).

Have contacted water board so will see what they say.


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## hotweldfire (1 Feb 2012)

Occasional unexplained deaths are a classic sign of a bacterial infection. Why it should only affect females though I don't know.


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## Viv (2 Feb 2012)

Its strange that its only females carrying eggs. Thinking about this, is it possible the deaths are due to some sort of vitamin/mineral deficiency due to making eggs/carrying developing young? For example, Dincho mentioned calcium deficiency as a possible cause but it got ruled out because of the high KH. In humans though calcium can't be absorbed properly without Vitamin D. I don't know if its the same for shrimp. But obviously the demands of producing eggs and supplying developing young are high so if this, or another equally important vitamin/mineral was in short supply, this would affect these females more.

Does any of that make sense?

Viv


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## Lemsip (6 Feb 2012)

Just found a juvenile dead upside down as the others - so I'm guessing this possibly an infection as mentioned. Any tips on identifying the problem/treating it? I cannot see any signs of fungal infection on them, co2 is stable using a dropchecker. Not too sure!


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## basil (6 Feb 2012)

Almond leaves are v good for this. You got some?


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## hotweldfire (7 Feb 2012)

Almond leaves are good for prevention but if you got an infection that's leading to losses I wouldn't mess about. I'd go in heavy with a week's course of full dose paraguard. Spank the bacterial infection hard. If you mess about with half doses etc you'll just end up with resistant bacteria. Here's some info:

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/134-Shrimp-Diseases-Bacterial-Infection

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/277-shrimp-bacterial-infection-paraguard

http://www.shrimpnow.com/forums/sho...achem-Paraguard-treatment?highlight=paraguard

BTW what's the population size and the tank size?


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## Lemsip (7 Feb 2012)

Thanks for the help, I will take a look.

23L tank, population is about 50, but 80% of these are very young, I have only maybe 6 or so full size adults left.

Out of interest where do people buy their almond/catappa leaves?


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## sussex_cichlids (8 Feb 2012)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> You can download the water report for your area from your water company, they have to provide it by law.
> 
> Sam



Thats excellent ive just found mine out its ment to be out the tap @ 27mg/l CaCO3. acording to southeastwater 

Thanks Themuleous


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## basil (8 Feb 2012)

Lemsip said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help, I will take a look.
> 
> 23L tank, population is about 50, but 80% of these are very young, I have only maybe 6 or so full size adults left.
> 
> Out of interest where do people buy their almond/catappa leaves?



Plenty on ebay Lemsip, or I can send you some to try out?


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## Dincho (10 Feb 2012)

What filter do you have on this tank? Is there any chance you could of had an ammonia spike?


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## Lemsip (17 Feb 2012)

Its a HOB Aquaclear - I don't think so, I've done water checks after every death and they are OK.

I think it may be a molting problem as mentioned since I see a lot less sheddings than when I first got the shrimp (although this may just be they eat them quicker since there are more). Or possibly the PH swing from co2 as I don't have a solenoid, so I've turned it down. But then again I've found them during at different times during the day.


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## malawistu (20 Feb 2012)

you will fined that your shrimps will molt after a water change mainly in the 24h after if they are having problems it could be a lack of calcium in the water


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## darthpaul (21 Feb 2012)

Mine seemed to die off after water changes most often to so this is interesting!


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## dw1305 (21 Feb 2012)

Hi all,


> 27mg/l CaCO3





> if they are having problems it could be a lack of calcium in the water


 That is a very low calcium carbonate level for the SE of England, just under 2dKH, ours is 298 mg/l (about 17dKH), and some-one (found it ,IanB in Suffolk <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12313>) had about 450mg/l.  

cheers Darrel


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## Lemsip (21 Feb 2012)

Mine is 300mg/l. I have reduced my co2 slightly and I'm noticing less deaths, not sure if this is coincidence though (could be dying in hidden areas). The co2 was around 30ppm so didn't think this was too high?


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