# honey gourami mouth



## Sammy Islam (8 Apr 2020)

Hey peeps, hope everyone is keeping safe & well! 

I've noticed something strange with one of my golden honey gourami mouth. It seems like her top lip is swollen compared to the others. Is there something wrong that's developed or is it more likely that's the way i got her and didn't notice? 

Sorry for the crappy photo i'll try get a batter one soon.



 


Thanks


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## Tim Harrison (8 Apr 2020)

Looks like columnaris a bacterial disease, erroneously commonly known as mouth fungus.
Treat with eSHa 2000


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## Sammy Islam (8 Apr 2020)

Thanks Tim, 
i have some of that so i'll give it a try soon. Here's a better photo.


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## alto (9 Apr 2020)

If possible I’d probably begin with a short term dip treatment, followed by bath treatment in the main aquarium 
(don’t use potassium permanganate - which some will recommend on some forum somewhere as the Cure - as this has recently been shown to sensitize cells for Columnaris invasion)

As usual, large water change with as much substrate cleaning/debris removal to start
Depending on water temp, maybe decrease to 21-22C (rams will be OK short term) 
Add medication - note the range of dosage on the eSHa 2000 instructions
Increase surface agitation re optimizing oxygen levels in tank water (monitor CO2 level and fish behaviour)

I’d follow my preferred method of large daily water changes and Day 1 dose instructions, scheduling medication addition with end of photoperiod (maintain just enough dim lighting in tank to observe fish for adverse reactions (usually occur within first hour))


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

Hi! My honey gourami seems to have the same thing what did you do and did it work?


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## alto (12 Oct 2020)

Great photos 

Note how her gold coloration occurs at the end, with translucent area in between, and no signs of anything white/fluffy/bruised etc 

Your fish actually seems to have a deformed mouth - how long has this been apparent?
Or has recently damaged her mouth (think broken something rather than tissue bruising trauma)

Is she eating and active?


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

She’s very active and eating completely normally. Now this appeared 2 days ago, but her tank is next to my bed and I live in my room so I see her 24/7 and notice the slightest chabges

She also is the only fish but I have shrimp in her tank (technically his according to Honeys dorsal fin lmao)

However also notice the slight amount of red under her mouth, this was also no there 2 days ago


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## alto (12 Oct 2020)

As this is a new observation, I suspect she injured her mouth somehow

In general, lacking a specific diagnosis the best treatment for fish is LOTS of clean water - can you do daily water changes on this tank?

Some people change water with shrimp, some don’t - if you don’t often change water, then start with daily 10-15% water changes (if possible, monitor water parameters for shrimp - your basic cherry shrimp is usually much hardier than most “bee”/“crystal” or caridina shrimp (though there are exceptions to this for both types)

As long as she’s active and able to eat, this may be somewhat odd looking but she should be fine
I’d still do daily water changes for the next couple weeks


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

Yes I do water changes with shrimp! I do one weekly and my last was the 6th so I’m actually due for a water change soon. My boyfriend works at an aquatic pet store so I have access to a quarantine tank with KanaPlex. Do you think I should treat her for columnaris just in case?

Also is it possible she could have some sort of parasite or something?


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## alto (12 Oct 2020)

Although I like Seachem medications, and it’s nice to have them on hand, I’d wait to treat
(while it’s impossible to say anything 100% based upon internet photos, I’d not consider this likely to be any Columnaris variant  - medications are stressful to fish to varying degrees so I don’t medicate unless I observe something that is likely to respond to medications)
Not to mention that Columnaris is very difficult to treat with medications (despite any hobby market claims to the contrary), even when the Columnaris variant has been identified, and medications tested in vitro in order to choose the most effective, in vivo treatment of infected fish, yields at best a reduced mortality rate ...

You could prepare some medicated food, if you want to be conservative - Seachem has some directions on their website (and more on their Discussion Board if it’s back up), you can also email them photos and tank etc details, and ask which of their medications they might suggest (if you do this, it would be nice to report back here )

Seachem Focus is definitely worth buying, it’s used to bind medication active ingredient to the food (there are various scientific studies supporting the use/efficacy of these binding agents)

When feeding medicated foods, I use Hikari Frozen brine shrimp, blood worms as the food base (as my fish love these), flake food usually breaks down too much, small pellet foods can be good
(I rarely feed freezedried bloodworm or brine shrimp as they seem very resistant to “wetting” in the medicated solution ... and my fish are not keen on these at all)


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## alto (12 Oct 2020)

alibollow said:


> Also is it possible she could have some sort of parasite or something?


While it’s possible she has some parasites - even healthy fish have a wide variety of low levels of a broad range of microflora including various parasites - this is unlikely to be the cause of her mouth issue 

Some more photos showing her whole body and fins and tail, would help clarify any possible issues - but the photos above show no signs of external parasites or external bacterial infections


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

Due to an EXTENSIVE amount of research I think it’s most likely to assume that my fish was eating food off the bottom , had a sand particle in his mouth and got a cut from it when he spit it out. Considering Honey eats off the bottom 24/7 like in all the pictures I showed, she still has her gold, she’s still very active and eating this morning and overall she doesn’t have any other issues and her mouth looks the same, I’m gonna get her in a QT tank with aquarium salts and try and treat it like a cut. I’ll check back here when something happens!


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

Here she is now with one of my shrimp


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## alibollow (12 Oct 2020)

Turns out after an examination of her mouth out of water that she had a small snail lodged in her mouth. My boyfriend used tweezers to loosen it and she spit it out when she got in the water . She’s able to close her mouth now and it’s already looking better


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## alibollow (13 Oct 2020)




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## alto (13 Oct 2020)

Excellent update 

I kept thinking if she were a goldfish I’d ask if she’d gotten a pebble stuck


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