# Twinstar DIY



## TallDragon

Hi al DIY-ers
would there be anyone who could build a Cheaper Twinstar algae inhibitor. -- I thought I'd get the conversation going.

I found the patent docs:
Patent EP2656732A1 - Apparatus for controlling algal blooms and killing pathogens in fish tank - Google Patents
Apparatus for controlling algal blooms and killing pathogens in fish tank
EP 2656732 A1
or
The US patent
Patent US20130284108 - Apparatus for controlling algal blooms and killing pathogens in fish tank - Google Patents

Let the discussion begin?
TD


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## pepedopolous

So the Twinstar creates oxygen microbubbles and nanobubbles, not ozone?

P


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## parotet

I can't believe it!!!! It costs a fortune!!!! Just air? That's all?


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## TallDragon

parotet said:


> I can't believe it!!!! It costs a fortune!!!! Just air? That's all?


 

It probably costs so much because of the expensive metal parts: Claim2: "The killing apparatus as claimed in claim 1, wherein the first conductive mesh and the second conductive mesh are made of titanium and have surfaces coated with platinum group metals."


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## OllieNZ

TallDragon said:


> It probably costs so much because of the expensive metal parts: Claim2: "The killing apparatus as claimed in claim 1, wherein the first conductive mesh and the second conductive mesh are made of titanium and have surfaces coated with platinum group metals."


And the electronics unit. Iirc the replacement discs were £60~


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## Tim Harrison

Not to mention product research, manufacture tooling, distribution and sales costs...


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## TallDragon

Troi said:


> Not to mention product research, manufacture tooling, distribution and sales costs...


Right but DIY is always about reverse engineering.


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## Rob P

Yes god forbid anyone should actually take the time and effort to research, produce, test and market for the goodness of their soul...


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## DrRob

It should, in theory, be easy enough to replicate. The parts are readily available for water ionoisers and jewellery plating devices. Getting hold of the electrodes and then controlling them simply if you don't already have a source could make the DIY non viable to start with though as water ionisers aren't exactly cheap and readily available devices.


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## dw1305

Hi all,





pepedopolous said:


> So the Twinstar creates oxygen microbubbles and nanobubbles





TallDragon said:


> and have surfaces coated with platinum group metals


I think you are right in both cases, this is in the "main" Twinstar thread <Twinstar..what is it? | Page 9 | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.

cheers Darrel


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## Andy Thurston

Do you think its possible to produce micro/nano o2 bubbles in a similar way to co2 injection? And do you think this could benefit our tanks?


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## Arne

micro/nano O2 bubbles would be easily produced by electrolysis, wouldn't it ?


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## tmiravent

Finally!
 Air?


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## Lindy

So this would be really good for oxygenation of a shrimp tank?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## dw1305

Hi all,


> So this would be really good for oxygenation of a shrimp tank?


 It could go either way, what you wouldn't know would be what effect the nano-bubbles have on the shrimplets, particularly if they get beneath the carapace. 

If it did work (and that is still a big "if" in my opinion), it may also reduce the biofilm on surfaces, Catappa leaves etc. that aids shrimplet survival. 

There may also be REDOX effects that effect the long term stability of the tank.

If you were worried about low dissolved oxygen levels in your tank, a bit more flow (or an air stone at night) would both be much cheaper ways of raising dissolved oxygen levels.

cheers Darrel


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## steveno

All.

Just thought i would let you know i had my twinstar nano installed in my 30l PRL shrimp tank (low setting) for the last 3 weeks and not notice any ill effect if anything the shrimp (including shrimplets) are significantly more active. It was meant to have been a one week test but I've both been a bit lazy and also run out of mini oxydator solution that i was using to oxygenate water so device has remained in tank.

I have notched that they are now selling a shrimp version in the east, thou no  ones seems to stock that model here in the UK.

Thou i hadn't consider the possible reduce biofilm effect, i am however supplementing with some powdered food.


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## clone

Hi, to all DIYers as my friend saying first we have to broke down the thing, find out how it works ..and then make our own version...LOL...Yes Twinstar kind of rediscover the wheel and I am really surprised that European guys did not come out with their version.....even in the UK there are smart asses who can produce the device instead we have to buy the overpriced Taiwanese thing????? Hre is my DIY version which has to be upgraded to nice transperent casing and better elecrodes for now I use stainless steel mesh electrodes, 12v 2A I think phone charger...but laptop charger is better....and simple timer to reproduce Twinstar IC lol......lol....and their unique algorithm for driving the magical device......anyway hopefully everyone understand how those juju device works...and that actually they sell nothing but AC power supply, timer and two electrodes in shiny case...lol



 


 


 



 
The performance of Twinstar depends a lot on the water chemistry.....softer and cleaner water =less visible bubles, but less salts buildup on the mesh
harder water and more salts including fertilisers=better conductivity and more visible cloud of nanobubles...but faster buildup of salts on the mesh electrodes
God bless the peole with big pockets who support our Taiwanese friends and will buy even spare mesh elecrodes for their Twinstar...no matter they are not even on sale in UK....LOL, LOL
God help to the fellas with hard water skapes and Seiry or other leaching carbonates hardskape.......cause the replacement mesh is not even in sale......

Thanks for watching....[DOUBLEPOST=1402660368][/DOUBLEPOST]Can not really understand why the mesh has to be made of titanium plated with rare platinum group metals?????? Any one ???? Any inert metal which do not oxidase will work...lets say stainless steel mesh which you can get any sizes and wholes per inch from e-bay...Thanks


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## clone

Here are couple of vids ..


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## clonitza




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## clone

That might work on the brainwashed americans or whoever the video is created for...what I am saying is that buying expensive Taiwanese product which claims will be the panacea for the absence of the understanding of aquarium hobby and patience of caring of your fish tank is unacceptable. That product might help in our battle with the algae...but will not replace the cares and maintenance of your aquarium. How about having a full life support system for your fish tank which will last years of not forever? I like gadgets dont get me wrong...but the fact that they came up on new Twinstar called shrimp, which reminds me of how Apple comes on their next but still under testing and imperfect version of I-Phone......and the fact that there are no different size versions but one universal 6 cm size......and the fact that the body is not transparent and undistracting, but some bizarre colors which actually enhance the mysticism behind the product.....LOL, and the fact that there is not explenation of what is the actual product but what will turn your aquaskape into and what are the results of UNKNOWN people..........Will make me NOT spend my hard earned money on this product, but DIY one which will make me even happier.

Thanks ...for the understanding!


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## clonitza

Sorry mate I use it for show off not for algae I don't have.


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## clone

Good for you mate...I am not anti-advertising Twinstar....and may be...some people buying stuff just to show off, why not ....at least as the man from the video said ...having original product will make you cheat less on you girlfriend/wife...LOL


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## dw1305

Hi all,





clone said:


> Can not really understand why the mesh has to be made of titanium plated with rare platinum group metals?????? Any one ???? Any inert metal which do not oxidase will work...lets say stainless steel mesh which you can get any sizes


 I think you are right, and I think you could have a stainless steel cathode. Platinum would be the best, but expensive, option 





> .........material with high conductivity, resistance to corrosion and erosion during the electrolysis and able to catalyse the electrode reactions...Also for industrial use, they should be relatively inexpensive. Platinum is an excellent but expensive electrode material. Industrial cathodes may be made from steel or nickel and those used as anodes are metals such as titanium coated with the oxides and mixed oxides of metals such as nickel and cobalt.
> 
> From <http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/electrolysis.html>


  cheers Darrel


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Wow. Nice.

I guess somebody worked it out


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## OllieNZ

Any chance of a how to?


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## Mr. Teapot

Hey, great work Clone. Really enjoyable thread. A quick google search came up with this PDF. My eyes glazed over pretty quickly but it seems like they're saying platinum group metals have different properties to your bog standard electrodes (not that I would know).


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## NatureBoy

loved the videos, the second guy manufactured a beast of a unit.

the "fake vs real" was a duff experiment from the start


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## X3NiTH

Apparently for Electroplating, maximum oxygen production is achieved using a Platinum coated Titanium Anode. A 25mm square piece of 1 micron Platinum coated Titanium Mesh Anode is about £35. However if a shed load of folks band together and make a bulk order from China for Platinum coated Titanium Anode Mesh the price would be monumentally lower than this. However since the bulk order would probably have to be in kilos and come as a roll that would need divvying up into small sections it would probably not be worth the legwork, hence Twinstar taking on the challenge.

I suppose it doesn't have to be 'Maximum' oxygen production hence DIYers can get away with using Stainless Steel to do the same job without feeling gouged every time you need to change the anode.


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## Martin in Holland

clone said:


> overpriced Taiwanese thing?


You do know that it's from Korea...right?...LOL


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## clone

Martin in China said:


> You do know that it's from Korea...right?...LOL


Please excuse my lack of knowledge. I will do better next time...still Twinstar is a bit expensive for poor ghetto DIYer like me even if it is produced in another planet , not in Taiwan.............


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## Martin in Holland

I think it's cool that you made one yourself...I agree with you that a TS is overpriced and it doesn't matter where it is made......


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## tmiravent

Hi,
what is the opinion about puting the device inside a reactor? (like a co2 reactor)
less efficient ?
don't work at all, just silly?
it would be very nice to simple hide this gear, (in my opinion).
thanks to all
cheers


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## ian_m

I think you will find (I hope ???) that there is a bit more than just applying 12 Volts across titanium/platinum electrodes.

There is a lot of research into this type of device for water purification and/or sewerage processing. They are using catalytic metals (platinum, rhodium etc) in conjunction with variable waveforms applied to the electrodes. The variable waveform (along with electrode type) allows selection of ion they want to "process" in that they can encourage say phosphates present in the water to react with organics and causing them to precipitate out of solution. The waveform (and off pause time) is critical along with mechanical electrode spacing and electrode composition in enabling the ion's to be "selected" electronically.

Anyway my 2p worth in researching the Twinstar. So might actually be quite clever, we hope at that price.


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## PedroB

Any updates on this?

I'm really interested in finding what's so special about Twinstar. I think its something that will become common place in 2-5 years when we find out how to make it cheaper.


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## Dukenukem

Dukenukem said:


>


That was the first plan...
This is the second:



TwinStar replica for 3D printer by andras.czesznak, on Flickr


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## Freskhu

Do You ha e the 3d drawing?


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## Dukenukem

Freskhu said:


> Do You ha e the 3d drawing?


Yes, 
The drawing was made with Google Sketch up, if you add your e-mail adresse to me, I can send the file-s.
Sorry for bad english


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## Freskhu

Dukenukem said:


> Yes,
> The drawing was made with Google Sketch up, if you add your e-mail adresse to me, I can send the file-s.
> Sorry for bad english


Yes please 
Simao.rcf@gmail.com


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