# Iwagumi layouts - please offer your input/advice



## Curvball

Hi all,

Busy working on what I would say is my first real proper aquascaping challenge.

I've been working with a few layouts over the last few days and wanted to share them with you to get some input etc on them.

If you prefer a specific layout, could you say why etc - any input would be appreciated.

On with the layouts.

#1





#2




#3




#4




I hope to add a few more to this thread over the next week but opinions on the above 4 would be cool.

Thanks.


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## k-hult

They all look very good,  although i have to say i prefer scape #1 and 3# as they have a very distinct flow to them which gives them more of a natural feel and sense of direction. well done mate!


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## Martin in Holland

I would go for #1 or #4.....I like #4 the most, it's nice and calm and gives a good depth perception.


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## Ian Holdich

Number one for me, just remember that if you're doing traditional iwagumi, there are a few rules to work by...

I'm sure you've read it, but here's a decent guide TGM lifted from Ada.

A Guide to Iwagumi - Aquascaping Nature Aquarium Layout Article | The Green Machine


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## Curvball

k-hult said:


> They all look very good,  although i have to say i prefer scape #1 and 3# as they have a very distinct flow to them which gives them more of a natural feel and sense of direction. well done mate!



Thank you.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

Martin in China said:


> I would go for #1 or #4.....I like #4 the most, it's nice and calm and gives a good depth perception.



Thanks, my thoughts on #4 are the same.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

Ian Holdich said:


> Number one for me, just remember that if you're doing traditional iwagumi, there are a few rules to work by...
> 
> I'm sure you've read it, but here's a decent guide TGM lifted from Ada.
> 
> A Guide to Iwagumi - Aquascaping Nature Aquarium Layout Article | The Green Machine




Thanks Ian. That is good guide have read that along with nearly everything else iwagumi related I've managed to dig up over the last few months.

In addition I've have been doing a lot of research into the traditional Japanese stone gardens and related subjects.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## darren636

Nummer 4

It just feels right.  I like the arrangement of the two main stones,  perhaps the smaller stones could be more interesting.


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## Curvball

darren636 said:


> Nummer 4
> 
> It just feels right.  I like the arrangement of the two main stones,  perhaps the smaller stones could be more interesting.



Yeah, agreed - the right hand side doesn't work as well as it should.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## James D

Number one for me by a country mile. I like the way the stones 'flow' and it looks nicely balanced.


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## Martin in Holland

4 also because the horizon is hiding behind the stones/ mountains


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## TOO

Clearly no. 1: combines balance and dynamism.

Thomas


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## Curvball

James D said:


> Number one for me by a country mile. I like the way the stones 'flow' and it looks nicely balanced.



Thanks James. I do agree with you - there is something to #1 that draws my eye to it.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

TOO said:


> Clearly no. 1: combines balance and dynamism.
> 
> Thomas



Thanks Thomas. 


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## tim

Number 1 is very balanced, though I like number 4, I think it's the way the eye is drawn through the center of the rocks, I think 4 with hc (or similar) low foreground plant and eleocharis acicularis or tennelus sides and background would do it for me  now post some more up


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## Curvball

tim said:


> Number 1 is very balanced, though I like number 4, I think it's the way the eye is drawn through the center of the rocks, I think 4 with hc (or similar) low foreground plant and eleocharis acicularis or tennelus sides and background would do it for me  now post some more up



 thanks for the feedback - your thoughts really echo my thinking. Plants at this stage aren't on my to do list, but has some ideas kicking about in my brain bucket.

Hope to try a few more layouts tonight and post them up. Stay tuned.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## parotet

Number 1, no doubt. I can see the flow in this one and I have a feeling of much more space. I would even place a small rock in the foreground following the line of the big or medium one (probably the medium one) to create more depth.


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## Curvball

Been a very long day today and I thought an hour or so playing in my sandpit would be a good idea.

I've revisited #1 for the next iteration. I just wanted to build on it, add more interest. 

#5





Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## k-hult

looks cool but in my opinion it was a stronger composition in the original as there was a strong sense flow. Each rock had a strong sense of purpose that added to the scape. I think the additional rocks take away from that slightly, you should experiment with banking the substrate up in the back right in a downward slope towards the bottom left, would compliment the scape nicely .


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## Richard Dowling

I think 4 has the most promise due its depth and I can imagine it planted and looking Good once done. I like the sloping

#1 appears to all point left which is a bit too unbalanced for me.

#2, the rocks are too skinny to stand like that I think.

Whilst #5 looks nice and balanced I think it might need playing with in terms of substrate depths and what surfaces of rocks are showing and which are partially buried. It may look more natural with some substrate work. I may swing 5 later on  perhaps also try and move that centre pathway right a bit (rule of thirds)


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## Curvball

Most certainly time for me to get sleep as the following indicates...

#6






Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

Hope to get some new layouts done this weekend. Stay tuned.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

Been busy for the last few hours and here are the results. Opinions/thoughts/input always welcome.

#7




#8





Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Curvball

Just tweaked #8 a little more for the next one.

#9





Are the newer attempts any better in your opinion than the first few I did? Why?


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## greenink

Love this thread. And the time to try out different arrangements. My only big comment is that some of the early ones had too many parallel lines between rocks, particularly compared to other people.


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## darren636

7 is good, is there any danger of planting?


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## Richard Dowling

7 is the best for sure.

There something a little off with the rock in the top right, I think it's because your two tallest rocks are leaning the same way and also there are 4 rocks in total instead of an odd number. But ignoring those Iwagumi rules isn't the end of the world as long as you're happy. It's still my favourite and the one id personally work on.

I would offer advice on where to place that right hand rock but I can't think of another way within the space and rocks you have....so yeah #7

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## darren636

coldera esque.


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## Curvball

greenink said:


> Love this thread. And the time to try out different arrangements. My only big comment is that some of the early ones had too many parallel lines between rocks, particularly compared to other people.



Glad you like the thread, it's fun doing these layouts, but is frustrating at the same time.

Thanks for the feedback - care to elaborate?


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## Curvball

darren636 said:


> 7 is good, is there any danger of planting?



Thanks - no plans for planting yet. Once I get there I will start a journal on the whole tank


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## darren636

Curvball said:


> Thanks - no plans for planting yet. Once I get there I will start a journal on the whole tank


  don't make me come over there!


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## Curvball

Richard Dowling said:


> 7 is the best for sure.
> 
> There something a little off with the rock in the top right, I think it's because your two tallest rocks are leaning the same way and also there are 4 rocks in total instead of an odd number. But ignoring those Iwagumi rules isn't the end of the world as long as you're happy. It's still my favourite and the one id personally work on.
> 
> I would offer advice on where to place that right hand rock but I can't think of another way within the space and rocks you have....so yeah #7
> 
> Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk



Thanks Richard - I am leaning towards #7 myself and agree on your points. The layout is actually comprised of 5 rocks, left side consists of 3, they just look like a single in the image - need to see how I can add a little depth to that side prior to planting.


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## Curvball

darren636 said:


> don't make me come over there!



Ha ha. If you're bringing plants with you, I'll put the kettle on


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## Richard Dowling

Curvball said:


> The layout is actually comprised of 5 rocks



I stand corrected, in that case crack on....it is difficult with photos sometimes, my photos didn't show the amount of rocks clearly either!

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## Curvball

The photos really change everything - the photos posted in this thread are only the layouts that I've thought had 'something' when viewed in a photo. Done so many where I thought they worked, took a picture and the image revealed how bad it actually was. Think I've done about 15 different layouts in the last week alone, and I'm still not happy.

Considering a trip out to get more rocks... Saw some mini landscape type rock at a LFS last weekend - might offer me some new options, the current crop of Baltic rock feels limiting.


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## parotet

7 is my new favourite one


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## Curvball

parotet said:


> 7 is my new favourite one



Thanks - glad you like it.


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## Ady34

Hi there,
Nice thread, it's good to take your time and find a hardscape your happy with from the off, that way your not second guessing yourself further down the line when it's more difficult to alter....,,,However don't get so hung up on it that you talk yourself out of something you like 
I too like layout 7. If your wanting to create more depth of field try removing about half of the substrate at the foreground and add it back to the rear, either evenly or to bias to the right hand side for example creating more gradient and using it to lead the eye. In doing this you could also move the rocks slightly further forward giving more room to work, tweak and plant and enhance further the illusion of depth.
I like the rock used, if your finding it limiting perhaps try and source a few more pieces of it to work with.
Happy scaping 
Ady.


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## Ian Holdich

7 is a winner for me.


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## Tim Harrison

7


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## k-hult

7 looks good !


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## Curvball

I couldn't sleep... And so we have another 'scape... Thoughts? Or should I just stick with #7?

#10


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## Martin in Holland

Jezus mate, you keep going at it and everyone looks good, but I do think this one topes 7


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## Curvball

Martin in China said:


> Jezus mate, you keep going at it and everyone looks good, but I do think this one topes 7



Thanks Martin - I do like this one, I actually like this morning too  might end up going with #10. Might...


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## Richard Dowling

I'm still riding 7 

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## Ady34

Hi, 
I think 10 is an improvement, the substrate helps create more interest and depth. Also there is more space around the rocks for planting.
The only issue you may have is the valley which seems shadowed by the large rock which may limit both circulation and light and consequently plant choice......you may need to think about how to get good distribution through there.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## TOO

I think I might prefer 7 because the stones are bit more angled, thus creating some "flow". In general I would probably slope the substrate even more, i.e. having a thinner layer at the front pane, to create more depth. I think...placing stones can become manic.

The greatness of UKAPS = talking to people who don't think you are insane when you stay up at night to arrange stones in glasscube .


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## Richard Dowling

TOO said:


> The greatness of UKAPS = talking to people who don't think you are insane when you stay up at night to arrange stones in glasscube .



My girlfriend didn't see the appeal in aquascaping at all when I was hardscaping mine, I even showed her photos of professional scapes and she still wasn't bothered....

I set up my tank, planted it and added shrimp and now suddenly she is taking interest....I even caught her googling Cherry shrimp the other day!

Everyone loves aquariums, they just don't know it yet!


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## TOO

Richard Dowling said:


> Everyone loves aquariums, they just don't know it yet!


 
My wife would have to dig REALLY deep before she came to that conclusion.

The only thing that has seriously caught her interest was when I came home with 120£ from selling some of my Cardinal shrimp offspring . That was until she realized that I had spent it the day after on...you guessed it, PLANTS. Ha! 

Thomas


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## Curvball

Richard Dowling said:


> I'm still riding 7
> 
> Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk



Fair enough, I need to put all my favourites together to really get a sense of each layout. Will try get that posted later.


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## Curvball

Ady34 said:


> Hi,
> I think 10 is an improvement, the substrate helps create more interest and depth. Also there is more space around the rocks for planting.
> The only issue you may have is the valley which seems shadowed by the large rock which may limit both circulation and light and consequently plant choice......you may need to think about how to get good distribution through there.
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Hi Ady - thanks for both your comments so far - you've given me some good input. 

I read your above comment earlier and since I got home I've been looking at the rocks and it appears as if the shadow is more a product of the light positioning combined with the photo. The rock stands up so there isn't a shadow in the valley - however the water flow concerns are something to consider.

I also think that your comments on #10 are applicable to #7 too in terms of light/ shadow and flow.

Need to give this some more thought.


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## Curvball

Top down view of #10




Right side




Left side




And just because


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## Curvball

I was up early today (for me anyways) and after a cup of coffee or 2 I came up with this...





( yes, tank has changed )


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## darren636

I like it.  you   are improving at this hardscape malarkey.


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## Curvball

darren636 said:


> I like it.  you   are improving at this hardscape malarkey.



Ah, thanks?


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## James D

It seems to keep getting better, I like no 10 best though now, get it planted up mate!


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## Tim Harrison

That's the beauty of this Iwagumi business, in the best tradition of the Japanese Zen garden you could play for days, it's all about the journey. Take your time, it's all good...


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## George Farmer

Last effort is best so far.  

On my phone the underside of the main stone looks very pale in comparison to the smaller stones. The contrast might prove distracting once full and planted. Not sure...


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## Curvball

Thanks to all for your input so far... Couldn't sleep so been playing again with some ideas, this is the best of the lot, but it just seems, um, very blah.


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## Martin in Holland

how to make a choice now ...to many good ones


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## Curvball

Martin in China said:


> how to make a choice now ...to many good ones



Thanks Martin. I've been going through all my snapshots of the various layouts and I am still not happy.

Trying to resist the urge to try different rocks... While my collection of Baltic rock is nice, I am lacking a few more angled pieces to really make things consistent.


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## tim

I still like number 4


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## Curvball

tim said:


> I still like number 4



Thanks Tim. What is it about #4 that you like?


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## tim

Hi curvball , the rocks seem really balanced to me in number 4 with a natural route through the hard scape, also looks to me to have the option to have a few different planting options, which could be good longer term to try a few different plants here and there, depends how long you want the scape to run. Good layouts so far though mate, I admire your patience I'd have planted 4 a week ago


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## Curvball

Thanks Tim, appreciate your input.


...and I have been busy again, and there is something I really like about this one. What do you think? 

(Apologies for the poor image, it is just a snapshot with poor lighting so you can't fully appreciate the flow of the grain of the actual rocks)


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## Curvball

And now with added refinement. Going to sleep on this one and see how I feel in the morning both pre and post coffee...


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## Curvball

Pre coffee... Mmmmm... Post coffee... Meh. 

Think I need to look again after work.


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## Daniel

I like that. I feel it has good balance and a real sense of depth.


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## Curvball

Daniel said:


> I like that. I feel it has good balance and a real sense of depth.



Thanks Daniel. I'm standing looking at it right now, and it has really grown on me. 

I think this is in need of some planting... Speak now if you disagree


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## tim

journal time


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## darren636

Do it.  And remember;

_*if you doubt your power, you power your doubts...*_


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## Curvball

I tweaked a few more things in this layout. Really feeling it now 

This will be the last update of the layout until I get the journal started where I will discuss my planting ideas, seek your input and hopefully achieve my final vision for this 'scape.

May I present:

Hi no Yama


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## Daniel

Can't wait to see some more on this...


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## Martin in Holland

will you do the same with your planting as you did with your hardscape?....plant, replant and replant again...


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## Curvball

Martin in China said:


> will you do the same with your planting as you did with your hardscape?....plant, replant and replant again...



Ha ha, probably...


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## darren636

nice. Liking the bias to the right. With the smaller ' loadoftoshi' stone on the left acting as s counter point


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