# Started making substrate. Opinions please.



## FishBeast (1 Jan 2014)

I have started making my substrate for my upcoming iwagumi.

So far it is a mix of approximately 70% mineralised soil and compost & 30% 6 month old compost which still has a lot of organic matter in it.

I have been using a home test kit to measure the PH and amount of NPK in it. I intend to grow HC so I would like to have a low PH of about 4. Is this necessary? It is deficient in K and I bought some sulphate of potash to mix with it which I am yet to do. I read somewhere that sulphates increase acidity. Will adding sulphate of potash lower the PH?

I also intend to add a lot of trace's to the substrate. I am also considering adding some red clay soil which is abundant where I live although I would be guessing whether it would be a good addition. I figure it would have traces of iron in it. Also I have some bentonite kitty litter which I would like to add to it too. I have read that bentonite can have either be sodium, potassium, calcium or aluminium based. I have no idea which one my kitty litter is based from. Should this be a cause for concern? I intend to add some slow release fertilisers to the mix as well.

I have been collecting some local mycorrhizae from under one particular tree which has an amazing amount of it attached to the roots. I am not sure if this fungi exists in under water environments but this tank is going to be a dry start tank so I would like to add this to the soil as well.


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## foxfish (1 Jan 2014)

Sounds terrifying to me!


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## tim (1 Jan 2014)

Hi mate, not sure about your substrate questions but I do know hc doesn't require acidic water, though it does require plenty of co2 flowing around the substrate level of the tank.


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## Michael W (1 Jan 2014)

I agree with Foxfish and tim, there is no need to complicate things. HC will benifit from a fine substrate due to its root sizes, it will love CO2 so a good flow and the use of gas CO2 will be very very beneficial. I am having success with peat with osmocote underneath all capped with tesco's light weight cat litter for a low tech tank. Some will choose to use John Innes NO3 which is also very good but it contains a lot of lime i believe, someone will have to correct me. You can really save a lot of time and stress from using those mentioned than trying to mix your own.


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## GHNelson (1 Jan 2014)

Hi
HC has short root structure....its prone to lift.
Your probably better to try and get the HC to grow emersed first...into a soft sediment...high in nutrients.
HC needs reasonable humidity....to grow emersed.
You don't even need high light although the plant will take longer to carpet.
Then do a cover and drain action ....every few days for 4 to 6 weeks...to promote deeper longer roots.
This will stop it floating...... plus.....I think this will help it to transform into the submerged stage.
The cover and drain action or tidal theory will remove build up of plant waste/clogging which causes algae.
Then nuke it with Co2....when you submerge the plant permanently. 
hoggie


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## Andy Thurston (1 Jan 2014)

Sounds like a load of work if you want to grow hc.
Id just use john ines capped with sand. Or pond soil capped with sand if your worried about hardness.
Id be more worried about flow and co2 when you flood it


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## darren636 (1 Jan 2014)

ph is crazy low, I assume you won't bother with fish?


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## FishBeast (1 Jan 2014)

> Id be more worried about flow and co2 when you flood it


 
I will be capping it with 10mm of Amazonia 2 but intend to have pogostemon helferi and a hair grassy type plant behind rocks. So the DIY substrate it more for them but if the HC can root deep enough then that's great.



> ph is crazy low, I assume you won't bother with fish?


 
I was looking at the analysis of ADA substrates where Amazonia 2 has a PH of 4.8.

ADA Aqua Soil Analyse - Aquascaping - Aquarium - Flowgrow


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## Michael W (1 Jan 2014)

FishBeast said:


> I was looking at the analysis of ADA substrates where Amazonia 2 has a PH of 4.8.


 
Even so I doubt many commonly kept fish will appreciate a PH that low especially those that are now commercially bred which have lost their requirement of needing to be kept in a low PH . Perhaps this type of substrate is targeted at specific scapes which may include fish that would prefer that PH? Its really strange to have PH that low unless your breeding something which requires a really low PH like some of the rarer Apistogrammas.


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## Andy Thurston (1 Jan 2014)

The roots of my hc were about 20-25mm in my last dsm. In my next attempt im only going to use a 3-5mm cap where the hc is going to be planted.

As foxfish says sounds scary, its the fungus that intrigues me, i know gardeners use it but most people want to keep mould out of a dry start but i would like to see/know if it caused problems. 

Alistairs chocholate puddle had low ph fish breeding and that was achived with pond soil and leaves added to the tank. Trying to achive all this with the substrate has potential to go very wrong. Try google diy substrate recipes lots of folk have been doing this for years theres a lot of info out there


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## NatureBoy (1 Jan 2014)

I'd just use the heavy clay topsoil, perfick


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## FishBeast (2 Jan 2014)

> Even so I doubt many commonly kept fish will appreciate a PH that low especially those that are now commercially bred which have lost their requirement of needing to be kept in a low PH


 
All the points made about the PH being very low are very valid and it makes sense since I plan to have Threadfin rainbows in there I should aim for a PH of 6.5-7 which is the PH of the water they are bred in.


> As foxfish says sounds scary, its the fungus that intrigues me, i know gardeners use it but most people want to keep mould out of a dry start but i would like to see/know if it caused problems.


It probably worth the risk and trouble to put the fungi in the substrate. A mate of mine is a plant biologist and I am trying to identify which mycorrhizae are adapted to being fully submersed. Probably wont end up going anywhere with it but we will see.



> Try google diy substrate recipes lots of folk have been doing this for years theres a lot of info out there


 
Yes, I will thankyou. I have had a little look around before but probably not as much as I should.


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## darren636 (2 Jan 2014)

I assumed terrestrial mycorr is not applicable to aquatic environs? Keep us updated on that .


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## darren636 (2 Jan 2014)

The main issue with the low ph -6 , is that of biological filter function would be lost. I guess breeders with such extreme water use water changes to keep water clean, rather than relying on a traditional filter arrangement.


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## DrRob (2 Jan 2014)

darren636 said:


> The main issue with the low ph -6 , is that of biological filter function would be lost. I guess breeders with such extreme water use water changes to keep water clean, rather than relying on a traditional filter arrangement.


 

You'd think that, but in my experience, tanks can run at pH's of around 5 with no great trouble. I used to breed angels in similar conditions with foam internals or undergravel filters. Stocking density wasn't too bad and water changes were regular weekly and good sized, but at the time I never really considered the pH effect on the biofilter. Ignorance was probably bliss, but it seemed to work out fine. Can't tell you the science behind it, and I suspect that there's a degree of environmental selection of different filter bugs, but it did work.


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## FishBeast (2 Jan 2014)

> I assumed terrestrial mycorr is not applicable to aquatic environs? Keep us updated on that .


 
My plant friend said:
"Not sure, but most plants have them so there would probably be some in underwater environments. Most need air though so any of the things you buy for normal plants would probably die underwater. I doubt you would need to add any as it would come in the roots of the plants you already have or is likely to be in the substrate anyway."

I have a large worm farm out the back which I am going to harvest castings from to add to the mix.


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## FishBeast (10 Jan 2014)

I have completed my substrate and have laid out my hardscape. I added volcanic basalt rock dust to the mix and it looks like this.
All I have to do now is add the mycorrhiza, water down with worm pee and cap with my old Amazonia 2.


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