# Bobtastic's 1st Planted Tank Journal (240l)



## Bobtastic (5 Aug 2009)

Hi all!

I have finally gotten round to doing something without our new 240 litre tank! We've had it fo just over a month but haven't really done much with it.  I started to cycle it bare, but have decided to scape if and see how we do once it's fully planted.

The dimensions of the tank are 100(w) x 140(h) x 42cm with 2 x 39watt T5 lighting. It also has a Fluval 405 filter and 300w heater and it looks like this : -






We had the pleasure of visiting TGM on the way home from a holiday in Angelsey. 2 bags of Malaya AquaSoil, 2 bag of Sarawak sand, 2 peices of wood and a lighter wallet later we were on our way home.

I first had to drain the tank as it was sat "cycling" for a while once I was left with roughly a cm of water (I wasdn't able to remover it all..) I started to add the Malaya. We contored the soil so that it was lower at the front and rising up to the back of the tank. We also positioned the two peices of wood.





After that we positioned a peice rock and added the Sarawak sand. We also added to larger pea gravel to give the effect of a path and to add so different texture to the substrate (I'm not 100% about it as I think the stones are a little too light in colour, but they were left over from setting up the first tank) so it looked like this.











Then came the delicate filling! I haven't got the plants yet and I didn't want to leave the filter not running until they get ordered and arrive. I place a plastic bag in the tank so that the incoming water didn't distroy the newly scaped tank.








This it the finished are tank pre-planting.

I hope you like it!

Here are an idea of some of the plants that we are planning to add (the list is... under negotiations  )

Vesicularia dubyana 'Christmas' + other mosses
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis

there will also be so taller plants to go into the background.


Photo updates in progression to show "progress".

Aug 14, 2009



Sep 15, 2009 



Dec 02, 2009



Dec 07, 2009 (cleaned sand of algae)



Jan 06, 2010 



Jan 28, 2010 



Apr 01, 2010 (trim and replanting)



April 26, 2010 (remove algae on rock and on dwarf grass)



May 13, 2010 (changed direction of Hydro Korillia and added the Maxi-Jet powerhead middle right)


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## Stu Worrall (5 Aug 2009)

looks like a really nice scape in te making there bob.  If it doesnt disturb the substrate too much you may find it lots easier to remove the wood if youre tying the moss on.  Its very fidly once its in the tank.  Like the graded path to the front as it gives it a nice sense of depth


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## Bobtastic (5 Aug 2009)

blahblahblahblah... hadn't thought about that... I have a feeling that i might end up with substrate all over the show if I try to take it out... 

I'll just have to give it a try insitute and if I have no luck or it looks shocking have to give it a try.

Thanks for the comments


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## Stu Worrall (5 Aug 2009)

it can be done bob, just a bit more fiddly wrapping the cotton around the branches when its in tank.  a stool will probably come in handy!


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## Bobtastic (5 Aug 2009)

Lol, I'll need a stool for sure! Can I use regular common-a-garden cotten thread? Or do I have to buy a specific type?


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## Stu Worrall (5 Aug 2009)

brown or dark green is the best but make sure its 100% cotton. ive had the nylon stuff in there before but it then stays forever and can stick out when you trim the moss back.


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## Bobtastic (15 Sep 2009)

Ok, following the inspirational demonstration from Oliver Knott @ The Green Machine on Sunday I decided it was time to finally start planting my tank!

Plants arrived, all be it with minor blip in their delivery (namely that the original batch took 5 days to arrive due to a Bank holiday, but replacements were sent out). That meant I ended up with more plants than were originally ordered, tho some of them are still a little worse for wear and a couple have had to be thrown away... :'(

So, here is a picture of the tank with the plants waiting patiently in the tank pre-planting.








I had intented to take more pictures of as I was going along... but got caught up in the moment! Thanks to Oliver's demo had a better idea of what I had to do with the preperation of the plant b4 planting, tho it he made it look a hell of a lot easier to de-pot, trim and separate then I did. I'm gonna put that down to the Tropica plants he was using! Oh and the years of experience too... 

Here are some pictures of the finished planting (so far   )!























Comments, suggestions extremely welcome!!


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## chilled84 (15 Sep 2009)

if that is HC get ready for failer. If you dont fail happy days. U defo will need co2 or a regular input of easy carbon for HC. I have spent ablout 40 pounds flus tring to get HC to take off. Its a terribly hard plant to grow and conditions must be right. Ph must be too. plus temp. I find lower temps was better. But every tank is different. And the wood will harber hair alague realy easy if you dont have enought fast growing plants to sap all the left nutrients inside the tank while plants are settleing and growing, wich for HC can be months before you see it takeing off. But its well worth it. Its looking realy good. Just be carefull with the water conditions as wood of all types can change the chemistry very easy.


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## Bobtastic (15 Sep 2009)

I'm adding liquid carbon, but I know what you mean about the HC, some of the pots where looking pretty dier, but I put that down to the problem with the travel time and being sat in the pot for so long. 

I'm hoping to add pressurised CO2 at some point, but I'm concerned about the pH as it's low from the tap to start with (6).

Already suffering from hair algea... It's been growing more on the moss than the wood tho. As it's my first proper planted tank, it's all trial and error atm.

Thanks foe the info.


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## chilled84 (15 Sep 2009)

But im one month into my first planted tank too. Im trying to grow HC too. But it a real pain without co2. Im running a co2 optimat at mo with easy carbon nutrients from bottle. I wish to one day i will run presurised. But cost is high for that. My HC would be bright green when i buy it and even thou it went sraight into the tank it always seemed to go like coulerd after two too three days they if will drop away and die. As for hair alague it will grow on the plants first usualy then it will transfer around your tank. Keep the flow running good and it will also help to slow it down. Adding easy carbon at recomemded dose is good and does help i find.


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## dsandson (16 Sep 2009)

oh, thats starting to look really good. I love the way the hydrocotyle is planted around the bogwood... which is very impressive too!

I hope you havent missed it but you'll need some ferts to use alongside the easycarbo. I'd recommend TPN+ as an easy way to start, then maybe look into IE using dry powders.

Also be sure your flow is adequate. You have a lot of low level plants, so the flow down at the substrate will need to be good, as HC is very greedy for co2, or easycarbo in your case.

You've made a great start. Just keep an eye on whats happening and try to adjust accordingly. Oh and pressurised CO2 really is the way to go on a tank that size!

Dave


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## Bobtastic (16 Sep 2009)

Yeah, I'm also adding TPN+ atm. The way that the level of the bottle has dropped already I'm thinking I'm gonna have to move over to dry powder and pressurised CO2 b4 I bankrupt myself! 

I keep meaning to ask about flow, I'm concerned that there isn't enough (or any!) flow at the bottom of the tank. Other that lowering the filter outlet (which I don't really want to do) what other ways are there to get more/better flow down there?

I'm sure I've seen power heads (in the TGM tanks), are they the best way to go? I don't really what too much flow cos it might disturb the substrate...

Can anyone recommend something?


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## Nick16 (16 Sep 2009)

chilled84 said:
			
		

> if that is HC get ready for failer. If you dont fail happy days. U defo will need co2 or a regular input of easy carbon for HC. I have spent ablout 40 pounds flus tring to get HC to take off. Its a terribly hard plant to grow and conditions must be right. Ph must be too. plus temp. I find lower temps was better. But every tank is different. And the wood will harber hair alague realy easy if you dont have enought fast growing plants to sap all the left nutrients inside the tank while plants are settleing and growing, wich for HC can be months before you see it takeing off. But its well worth it. Its looking realy good. Just be carefull with the water conditions as wood of all types can change the chemistry very easy.


yeah HC isn't the easiest, however some can just get it right and it goes wild! 

spell checker is your friend


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## Mark Evans (16 Sep 2009)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Can anyone recommend something?



if you want HC to grow, you need to go down the road of CO2 and EI. both at high levels (fish safe co2) given theses conditions, you shouldn't fail with HC. 

korolia power heads are great option for flow.


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## BINKSY1973 (16 Sep 2009)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I keep meaning to ask about flow


Sorry if i have missed it, but what filter are you using?

You need to turn your tank over at about ten times an hour, so your looking at 2400l per hour.

Cheers Gordon.


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2009)

I'm running a Fluval 405 atm. I can never work out the flow rate of filters... Never been any good at maths...


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## Fred Dulley (17 Sep 2009)

Fluval quotes it is 1300lph. That's probably without media.


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2009)

Does turn over apply only to the filter or is that movement around the tank?

For example if I added an another power head to move water around will that add to that?


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## BINKSY1973 (17 Sep 2009)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> For example if I added an another power head to move water around will that add to that?



In a word yes, just add the litres per hour of the powerhead to that of your filter, until you reach your target flow rate.

Cheers Gordon.


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2009)

Would a Hydor Koralia 1 be enough?


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## BINKSY1973 (17 Sep 2009)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Would a Hydor Koralia 1 be enough?



Just had a quick look a Koralia 1 is rated at 1500lph plus your Fluval 405 at 1300lph

That's a total of 2800lph, so yes you should be good to go with a Koralia 1.  


Cheers Gordon.


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2009)

Kewl, lucky as that is the cheapest one too!   

That was an easy decission, I don't think choosing a reg, counter and deffuser will be as simple tho...


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## Bobtastic (31 Dec 2009)

I am all gas'd up thanks to the guys at TGM. Special thanks to Graham for spending the time talking us through everything and even supplying a drawing! 

Tho... I think we forgot to put in a suction cup for the defuser... So I'm currently running on the "spare" one... Also I'm not able to use the J-tube as the rim of my tank is too wide... *sniff* 

Hopefully it will give my plants the well needed boost! Now just have to get my hands of some more fert as FluidSenor is currently out of TPN+...

I'll post up some more pics as an when I take some.


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## Bobtastic (6 Jan 2010)

Just done a quick pic/diagram of how the Co2 is setup in the tank and could do with some feed back to say whether it's the best placement or how it could be changed to improve distribution.






also created a post in the Co2 section to get better exposure.


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## Bobtastic (28 Jan 2010)

I've been extremely lax-y-dazical with this "journal", but here is a picture of how it looks now.





Had a lot more growth thanks to the addition of Co2. The Crypts are looking a lot more healthy as are what is left of the Eleocharis Acicularis and Pogostemon Helferi after the heater mishap. Algae is a lot less now to and I find I'm only sucking up fish poo and dead algae rather than living stuff...

The Hydrocotyle verticillata has gone crazy and is sprouting up all over the place. Tho I need to gather up, trim and replant the bushy one at the back (can't remember its name....)

Future plans - 

I plan to get some Rotala Rotundifolia (red tipped), Rotala Nanjenshan (green), and Alternanthera reineckii (red) and put it in back right and probably back left to fill in the background.

Also get some more Eleocharis Acicularis, Hemianthus Callitrichoides 'Cuba' and Pogostemon Helferi to fill in the foreground more.

I also want to get some java fern and mosses and attach them to the wood but haven't quite decided where I want them to go.


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## russchilds (28 Jan 2010)

I really like it!!   

Whats the stem like plant in front of the wood? I want to try this in my tank - cheers!


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## Bobtastic (28 Jan 2010)

The one that's front right is a crypt, I can't remember which type it is tho. I'm sure I'll have to move it once it get too big.


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## russchilds (28 Jan 2010)

Whoops sorry not the crypt. The plant to the left? cheers!


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## Bobtastic (28 Jan 2010)

The "mushroom" shaped plant? That's Hydrocotyle verticillata.


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## russchilds (28 Jan 2010)

Thanks!!!!


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## Bobtastic (1 Apr 2010)

Ok, finally remembered to take some picture of what the tank looks like atm. I must be honest but I dont seem to be having much luck with this particular setup...





The Crypts that are/were left/back of centre and under the outlet seem to have melted away...

Tho the Hydrocotyle verticillata and Micranthemum umbrosum behind the wood seem to be going ok.





The addition of Co2 seems to have gotten rid of the original algae problem, but this has given way to another/continued, other species of algae problem...


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## Bobtastic (1 Apr 2010)

I've just updated the bottom of the original post with the picture that have been taken of this tank in it "progress"...

With the addition of pressurised Co2 the problem with the algae on the sand has gone, but it doesn't seem to have resolved all of the algae problems that I am having with this tank. I have switched to a DIY TPN solution, of which I'm dosing 15ml daily atm. I have also lowered the lighting period to see if that has an affect on the algae on the wood, rock and plants. 

I have also lowered the power head to just above the filter outlet and Co2 defuser to see if I can get some more Co2 to the lower plants and help with the over all distribution. I have another power head that I currently use for water changes that I would add to the opposite end of the tank to help with flow/distribution around the back of the wood.

I am also planning on getting hold of some more plants to see if the light/low biomass it also contributing to the problem, but don't really want to waste my money if I'm fighting a loosing battle.

I would be really interesting in other ppls opinions and advise on this... I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall with it.


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## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2010)

Whats the water change regime, if tyou dont mind me asking   

 With  just adding co2, thiswont correct every problem within an aquarium. unless other aspects are addressed also.


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## Bobtastic (1 Apr 2010)

I must admit I'm am fairly poor with the water changes. I can leave it 2-3 weeks between changes on occasion. But not all the time.

Yeah, I was just hoping that it would sort out most of them! ;o)

I'm aware that most of the plants that I have in are pretty slow growning. I have a little patch of Egeria densa (back left) but I must admit that it's not growing as well as the ones I have in my low light setup (110l 2xT8 - no fert or co2). I was thinking of adding some Hygrophila difformis along the back/behind the wood to see if it would out compete the algae.


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## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2010)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I was thinking of adding some Hygrophila difformis along the back/behind the wood to see if it would out compete the algae.



it's not so much about 'out competing the algae' it's possible to run a tank with next to no plants in and still be algae free.

I'd look at regular W/C if your injecting co2. you'll be amazed at the out come.


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## Bobtastic (1 Apr 2010)

Oki koki! Is there a minimum amount that you'd say?

When I do a proper water change I usualy take down roughly 50% and would you say a minimum of once a week? Or should I do it more regularly until the algae clears?


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## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2010)

50% once per week minimum. are you sure you've got correct co2 levels too?


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## Bobtastic (1 Apr 2010)

Lol, can you tell me what the "correct" Co2 level is?

I'll take a video of the bubble counter, defuser and hopefully the micro bubble distribution around the tank and post it up! I was gonna do it last night but ran out of time.

I've been toying with the idea of an inline defuser or reactor to increase the defusion, but haven't taken that step yet...


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## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2010)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Lol, can you tell me what the "correct" Co2 level is?



a green drop checker with 4DKH water within   it's gambling trying to assume we've got 30PPM of co2. with time, and experience, it;'s possible to run CO2 without a drop checker (i've done it) but I'd always recommend one for peace of mind.


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## Bobtastic (6 Apr 2010)

Here is the video a promised. I must appologies for it's quality it was extremely rushed and I'll do a better one shortly.

Video

The pH of my water is quite low (pH6) but I have observed the dropchecker change colour.


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## ceg4048 (6 Apr 2010)

The dropchecker should be green/yellow when the lights go on. If it's only blue/green when lights go on then this means trouble. Try being radical. Try weekly 90% water changes. When the water is at it's lowest level clean the rocks/wood using a toothbrush and squirting Excel directly on them. BBA will not just go away. Also, the more you leave it on the rocks the more spores they produce and the more BBA you will get. In fact if you can attack 2X or 3X a week you will be that much further ahead.

Algae have a dual personality and that's why it is often difficult to eradicate even after we have addressed the root cause. In order to get rid of the invasion you have to be brutal and clear the battlefield of all combatants. This means getting rid of infected leaves as well....

Cheers,


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## Bobtastic (7 Apr 2010)

Hi ceg4048, 

I took your advise with the tooth brush, I did a heavy water change (can't do 90% cos I have fish in the tank) and had at the wood last night. I cleaned off as much as time would allow. Also cut out the worst effected leaves and cleaned off those that I could.

I'll have to get myself some EasyCarbon for spot dosing too. I only had a little bit left, which I used on a small sprig of moss...


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## Bobtastic (28 Apr 2010)

Here are some recent picture of the tank.






There is still alot of algae growing in the tank. So I've obviously not got the balancing act right yet... 

Here is a picture of the dwarf grass before I trimmed off the algae.




and after I trimmed off as much as I could...




The Pogostemon helferi seems to have grown loads but to me it doesn't look right... Seems too tall...






Also for some reason the Java Fern has taken a turn for the worst... 






I've trimmed off all of the dead looking leaves and placed it higher up the wood so that it's got better flow and more light (tho that didn't seem to bother it earlier...).

I was a way the last 2weeks and the gf was adding ferts, possibly not as regularly as she should have been...


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## ceg4048 (28 Apr 2010)

Hi Bob,
         These faults all look like CO2 related to me. What's bizarre is that the P. helferi seems to be doing OK. This is a stem plant masquerading as a carpet plant so just top it and re-plant the sections that you cut at the nodes. this is an illustration of the uneven flow patterns in that tank. The hairgrss and ferns aren't getting enough stable levels of CO2 but the helferi appears to be getting good flow. If you have any cheap plastic spraybars you might try attaching them to the filter outflow. Also play with the Koralia position. The Koralia may actually be fighting the filter flow. Try aligning the Koralia with the filter outlet. This is the problem with a largish tank. Poor distribution wrecks all your plans.

Cheers,


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## Bobtastic (28 Apr 2010)

Thanks for the comments ceg! I have been wondering about the defusion of the Co2. It seems like I can't get the bubbles to go throughout all of the tank. As it is atm some get sucked into the inlet, travel through the filter and then out of the outlet on the other side. Others get caught/pushed by the Koralia but they don't seem to make it much passed the middle of the tank...

I have a Maxi-jet powerhead (not sure of the rate, could be 750) that I use to help with water changes, I could add that but not really sure where is should go...


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## LondonDragon (28 Apr 2010)

A tank that size I would recommend a couple of Koralia 1 at best, maybe even Koralia 2, one in each side of the tank, one higher up and the other lower down, to create a good flow all round


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## Bobtastic (29 Apr 2010)

Ok. Need to find a larger extension lead, and hope the misses doesn't notice another drain on the eleci! 

I've been toying with the idea of getting an in-line defuser or a external reactor for my Co2. Do you think either of them coupled with increated flow would help?


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## ceg4048 (29 Apr 2010)

YES!  

Cheers,


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## Bobtastic (29 Apr 2010)

So which would be better? A reactor (eg Aqua Medic 1000) or the in-line defuser that Andyh has used (with much success)?


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## LondonDragon (29 Apr 2010)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> So which would be better? A reactor (eg Aqua Medic 1000) or the in-line defuser that Andyh has used (with much success)?


They are both good, and I have used both, the UP Atomizer is cheaper and its small, but you will get lots of tiny CO2 bubbles in the tank, the Aquamedic 1000 which I am using at the moment is great as the CO2 disolves inside the reactor, but you will need a good filter for it 1000lph+ and if you get it remove the bio balls that are inside the reactor.


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## Bobtastic (29 Apr 2010)

I am currently running a Fluval 405 on this tank (think that's about 1300lph?). So I assume that I have the power, tho I'm a little concerned about connecting the corrigated/concitina/flexi tubing and securiting it to the reactor...


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## Bobtastic (10 May 2010)

Picked up some new hosing yesterday and also added my Maxi-Jet to the top right corner of the tank and shifted the Korillia so that it's pointing from bottom left to bottom right across the tank. The water looks like it's moving around a heck of a lot more! Not sure how the plants are gonna deal with all the new movement tho...

Gonna hopefully order the reactor today or tomorrow (after a finance check!). Pics to follow.


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## Bobtastic (13 May 2010)

Recent changes, I have inverted the maxi-jet and lowered it a little so that it's flow it mid-level in the tank but it drawing water from nearer the surface rather than the bottom.





I have also glued a new java fern, but it is yet to be placed. I'm going to wait and see if the increased flow and better distribution of Co2 has an effect on the aglae. Still planning to get the AM 1000, but finances have prevented it getting ordered just yet...

Comments extremely welcome.


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## chilled84 (13 May 2010)

Are you doseing EI?


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## Bobtastic (13 May 2010)

Dosing DIY TPN+ atm. Roughly 10ml daily. Not sure if that is too much or too little for the biomass.


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## Bobtastic (28 May 2010)

Ordered an Aqua Medic 1000 reactor, have replacement pipes just need to wait for the delivery and get some jubilee clips and I should be be hot to trot!

I wonder if anyone using DIY TPN+ could post up a picture of there bottle, showing the colour of the solution. Mine seems to change colour from when it's first made. Not sure if that's to be expected....


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## Bobtastic (1 Jun 2010)

The Co2 ran out on Saturday day... Typical that is on blinkin' Bank Holiday! Now need to seek a refill.

In the mean time I've turned the lights off completely and halved the fert dosing. Is this the right thing to do?


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## Bobtastic (2 Jun 2010)

I am all gased up again! and for only Â£3 for my 3kg cylinder too!


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## Bobtastic (11 Jun 2010)

Aqua Medic 1000 reactor is now installed. I've had a bit of a problem with it leaking from the hose that comes in from the filter. Think it was because the hose is a little too large for the reactor, as I'm using a Fluval 405.

I now have to tinker with the alignment of the outlet to make sure the Co2 gets throughout the tank. Photos to follow.


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## LondonDragon (11 Jun 2010)

You need to use Jubilee clips no matter which filter hose you use.


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## Bobtastic (11 Jun 2010)

Lol, I have, I just couldn't seem to get it tight enough!


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## Bobtastic (14 Jun 2010)

The leaking seems to have been sorted out. One final forearm slitting turn seems to have gotten the Jubilee clip tight enough to stop it. Digital timers have been added so that the Co2 comes on and off 30mins b4 the lights. Now have to play with the outlet of the filter so that I get the Co2'd water all throughout the tank.


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## Bobtastic (27 Aug 2010)

Not updated in a while.. Tho I must admit there isn't much to report... I have removed the bio balls from the reactor and added a spray bar to help the flow of CO2 rich water. 

I am planning to put a pin in this scape and admit defeat... Looking to go with a Iwagumi inspired scape next. I'm hoping that the lake of flow hindering wood and the fact I have everything I need for a complete and proper High Tech setup will help me this next time round.


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## chilled84 (27 Aug 2010)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Not updated in a while.. Tho I must admit there isn't much to report... I have removed the bio balls from the reactor and added a spray bar to help the flow of CO2 rich water.
> 
> I am planning to put a pin in this scape and admit defeat... Looking to go with a Iwagumi inspired scape next. I'm hoping that the lake of flow hindering wood and the fact I have everything I need for a complete and proper High Tech setup will help me this next time round.



If you admit defeat, At least you have learnt the hard way just like us all. Apart from the odd person who just gets lucky. Your next effort will be grand im sure!


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## Bobtastic (27 Aug 2010)

Thanks Chilled! Trial by water it shall be! (said in an Eddie Izzard stylie)

I feel that I haven't invested enough in the setup (time/money), having got bought all my Co2 stuff on the fly rather than having it setup b4 starting the tanks. 

I'll also have more money to investing in enough plants at the initial setup too!


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## Bobtastic (6 Sep 2010)

So I'm fast approaching re-scape time! 

I have acquired some rock and setup a "test scape" in a cardboard box with some cat litter as a temp/example substrate. I would really appreciate some comments good and bad or possible other directions/tweeks I could do to improve it.

Here's a link if fancy having a look.


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