# Can you cast your eyes over my tap water stats



## aaron.c (28 May 2015)

Hi All

I wondered if someone could look over my water stats.  I currently does with AE Neutro+, CO2 and Liquid CO2.  I want to know if there is anything else I should be adding.

Thanks


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## ian_m (28 May 2015)

No picture.

Ignore your water stats you will only start worrying about something that isn't an issue. Work with what you have.

If Neutro+ does contain a very expensive way of dosing micros and K, N & P then you are fine, except for a thinner wallet. CO2 and liquid CO2 are not strictly necessary, though CO2 gas is far more cost effective and efficient way of getting carbon into plants, and liquid CO2 can keep algae at bay.


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## aaron.c (28 May 2015)

Doh! Does it show now Ian?

Thanks for the reply.  I have a dosing pump and will be using EI going forward I think.

thanks


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## ian_m (28 May 2015)

Yes can see it now. It's pink and that is all that is the most interesting thing about it..my water report is blue.....don't worry about your water...water reports mean nothing, as they were the report on a certain day at a certain sampling point and not the water coming out of your tap today.

Is soft, so snails may be an issue, people would die for water like this, mine is 22 Clarke.

It has chlorine, like most water in UK, so must dechlorinate like most people in the UK.

Other than that, just use it..


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## Mark D (28 May 2015)

At least you get a nice summary, I have the choice of a 3 page monster or very limited information.

Its 18 Clarke in Addiscombe, but my tank is a little softer.


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## aaron.c (28 May 2015)

Thanks Ian! It is super soft! Makes for rubbish espresso!


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## ian_m (28 May 2015)

aaron.c said:


> Makes for rubbish espresso!


Luxury....I spend a minor fortune on coffee machine descaler and salt blocks for water softener....

If worried water is too soft (ie no buffering so susceptible to a pH crash) just add some potassium carbonate and/or calcium nitrate. Plants will like the potassium & nitrate bits. Or DIY remineralise as in this link.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm

You can also buy reminerlisers as well.


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## Wisey (28 May 2015)

My water is a similar softness up here in Aberdeen. I was intending to take advantage of that and maybe try to breed Apistos, but with this being my first set-up, I have decided to walk before I can run and try to grow plants well first. I'm therefore keen to buffer my water to get decent PH readings so I can get CO2 right and would also like to be able to keep some Amanos happy. I was going to add a bag of Oyster Shell grit to the filter, will that achieve the same effect or should I be adding something else?


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## aaron.c (28 May 2015)

Haha, I do hate descaling 

I am reminilarising water, TDS pen reads 25ppm out of tap most days.  So I get new water up to 200 with this - http://www.shrimpcorner.co.uk/home/34-shrimp-mineral-gh-kh.html


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## aaron.c (2 Jun 2015)

I have noticed yellowing of older leaves on my Hygrophila polysperma which I am guessing is from a nitrogen deficiency from Neutro +.  I have moved over to EI so hopefully that will fix that.

Aaron


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## ian_m (2 Jun 2015)

Of course your report never stated the levels of the rather dangerous substance that kills 1000's of people every year due to inhalation, dihydrogen monoxide. I would be really careful handling it if I were you...

Read about it here....
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html


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## dw1305 (2 Jun 2015)

Hi all,





aaron.c said:


> I wondered if someone could look over my water stats.


It is pretty close to RO straight out of the tap. It is much easier to add things to water, rather than take them away. 


Wisey said:


> My water is a similar softness up here in Aberdeen. I was intending to take advantage of that and maybe try to breed Apistos, but with this being my first set-up, I have decided to walk before I can run and try to grow plants well first. I'm therefore keen to buffer my water to get decent PH readings so I can get CO2 right and would also like to be able to keep some Amanos happy. I was going to add a bag of Oyster Shell grit to the filter, will that achieve the same effect or should I be adding something else?


Oyster shell grit should do. The problem with pH is that it is less and less meaningful as you towards pure H2O. Because pH is a ratio, in soft water small changes in water chemistry cause large changes in pH values.  It is the changes in water chemistry that effect the fish. 

If you have a drop checker with 4dKH solution, you can ignore the pH drop in the tank. 





ian_m said:


> Of course your report never stated the levels of the rather dangerous substance that kills 1000's of people every year due to inhalation, dihydrogen monoxide. I would be really careful handling it if I were you...


We give this web site to the students sometimes for "critical thinking" and "risk assessment".

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (2 Jun 2015)

dw1305 said:


> Oyster shell grit should do. The problem with pH is that it is less and less meaningful as you towards pure H2O. Because pH is a ratio, in soft water small changes in water chemistry cause large changes in pH values.  It is the changes in water chemistry that effect the fish.
> 
> If you have a drop checker with 4dKH solution, you can ignore the pH drop in the tank.



I have a drop checker, but was under the impression that a decent PH pen was the way to measure my PH drop and get my CO2 right as a drop checker was a good indicator, but not reliable enough or responsive enough to measure exactly what is happening and when. My thoughts therefore were to use the Oyster shell to boost the TDS enough that I might get a stable reading from a PH pen and be able to do a PH profile throughout the day. Is this correct, or am I wasting my time buying an expensive Hana PH pen and TDS meter with my soft water?


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## dw1305 (2 Jun 2015)

Hi all, 





Wisey said:


> I have a drop checker, but was under the impression that a decent PH pen was the way to measure my PH drop and get my CO2 right as a drop checker was a good indicator, but not reliable enough or responsive enough to measure exactly what is happening and when.


 A drop checker is quite accurate, because it has an air gap between the tank water and the 4dKH indicator it is only measuring CO2, bromothymol blue is a narrow range pH indicator and there is an experimentally validated relationship between carbonate hardness (dKH), pH and CO2.

But you are right, the problem is the response time, with the drop checker indicating what your CO2 level was some time ago. 





Wisey said:


> or am I wasting my time buying an expensive Hanna PH pen and TDS meter with my soft water?


 No, it is a useful bit of kit. You can still get a pH profile, but it will take longer for the meter to reach a stable reading. If you can leave the pH probe in the tank with the meter on it should give a more accurate reading. You really need to turn the pH meter some time before you use it, and buffer it on pH4 and pH7 buffers before every use.

If you add more salts to your water you will get a more stable pH reading.You can actually do this with a neutral salt (like NaCl - table salt doesn't work because it contains magnesium carbonate as a desiccant), you only need to raise the conductivity by ~200 microS and you can always change that water out after you've got your pH profile.

Have a look a this thread <"Apistogramma Forums - OK">.

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (2 Jun 2015)

Thank you, Darrel. Helpful as always! 

I'm hoping to plant in a couple of weeks, I will overdose the CO2 for a few weeks as things get established then order up the PH pen and try to configure the correct amount before any shrimp and fish go in. I suspect it will be a few days or weeks of trial and error without livestock to get things right and understand the process properly.


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## Andy Thurston (2 Jun 2015)

dw1305 said:


> If you can leave the pH probe in the tank with the meter on it should give a more accurate reading


might not be possible with the hanna meter, my ph/tds/conductivity/temp has auto power off


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