# Dosing and “hard” water



## Mr.Shenanagins (10 Apr 2022)

I’ve been following the pro’s and con’s of lean dosing thread and I have seen this issue come up a few times but not really explained. What exactly about “hard water” causes precipitation and uptake issues and is it more Kh or Gh related? I know many people like myself are not using RO so some of these regimes are not so cookie cutter with results. I know “watching the plants” is the most obvious answer, but chasing deficiencies is a quick rabbit hole to disaster for many. For those of you more scientifically inclined, please explain for the rest of us peasants please! Many thanks


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## plantnoobdude (10 Apr 2022)

hi, Hi co3 can inhibit uptake of Fe and possibly other non Fe micros. I can't explain the mechanics of it all, but maybe @Sudipta can.
high Ca/Mg as per mulders chart will have an antagonistic  relationship with several important plant nutrients, this isn't all bad though, as this same mechanism can protect your plants from heavy metal toxicity. fish also can appreciate higher gh because it protects them against heavy metal toxicity.
now, I have refered to mulders chart, but it is also important to note that these nutrients might not behave the same in water, but it is a good starting point.









						More reasons for soil testing
					

Improper pH and higher than adequate nutrient levels are reasons for regular soil testing.




					www.canr.msu.edu


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## MichaelJ (10 Apr 2022)

Ah @Mr.Shenanagins  you beat me to it - I have posted more or less the exact same question here.


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## JoshP12 (10 Apr 2022)

If all we need is an intuition, the answer is that there is more GH and KH in the water because it’s hard so we need more other non-GH/KH stuff to compensate.

Since plant acquisition of nutrients is related to concentrations, probably need more of all the other ferts too.

In other words, more GH and KH, more everything to compensate for the “balance”.

EI works well in hard water for this reason.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (10 Apr 2022)

Yeah I guess that makes sense. What I don’t understand though is why more of the other nutrients affect the nutrients in demand. If plants require something specific, and it’s not in abundance, wouldn’t they scavenge for said nutrient more readily? Or is the implication that the excess nutrients are making up the plant in excess to the point there isn’t enough room left for the ones we are most concerned about (NPK, Fe)? If that makes sense


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## Mr.Shenanagins (10 Apr 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Ah @Mr.Shenanagins  you beat me to it - I have posted more or less the exact same question here.


Yeah maybe we can have the mods merge these two so we don’t have two threads about the same inquiry of valid concern.


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## JoshP12 (10 Apr 2022)

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> Yeah I guess that makes sense. What I don’t understand though is why more of the other nutrients affect the nutrients in demand. If plants require something specific, and it’s not in abundance, wouldn’t they scavenge for said nutrient more readily? Or is the implication that the excess nutrients are making up the plant in excess to the point there isn’t enough room left for the ones we are most concerned about (NPK, Fe)? If that makes sense


I think they would. Their first stop is the roots. If it’s not there , then they do the next best thing … adapt.

And that’s why under different dosing regimes/conditions the plant “looks” different!!!! And … that’s a defieicny too … interveinal chlorosis is an adaptation method to keep growing to get to the light and the gases! Maybe to a better location where it can rip off and float to a new soil with magnesium or iron .

Now, the plant can regulate what goes in and out of the leaf - except N and P - like it can push out potassium to help balance itself. And it can create anti toxins to help prevent against toxicity.

There is another piece - you can only drive growth so much. No matter how much protein (and other nutrients) you eat and/or how hard you exercise, your genetics will provide an upper bound on how much muscle you can grow - sorry. Plants are no different - some would be able to grow up to a ceiling of growth (that was supposed to be EI - what is the MAXIMUM).


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