# White Cloud Mountain Minnows



## James Burcham (4 Jul 2019)

I was thinking about a school of White Cloud Mountain Minnows in my aquascape. The ones at the local shop look like the picture below. Has anyone here have experience with these fish. Good or bad?


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## alto (4 Jul 2019)

More likely this fish

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tanichthys-albonubes/

cheap as chips, note the preferred temp

_T. micagemmae_  are usually higher priced (& less commonly available)

Check that these fish are not banned in your area - they are on the prohibited list now (in my area) as they are more than capable of surviving and breeding (with mad success) in local streams etc


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## Arana (4 Jul 2019)

Love these, i have had many over the years and did get them to breed once, producing some like the one in my avatar with the gold tipped fins.


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## Aqua360 (4 Jul 2019)

They are superb


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## James Burcham (4 Jul 2019)

alto said:


> note the preferred temp


Yes I saw that 72 deg farenheit is preferred. I've been keeping the tank at 74 deg. I think I read somewhere that 74 was good for a scape. You think that would be too warm?

@Arana what was your experience with temp on these?


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## Arana (4 Jul 2019)

James Burcham said:


> Yes I saw that 72 deg farenheit is preferred. I've been keeping the tank at 74 deg. I think I read somewhere that 74 was good for a scape. You think that would be too warm?
> 
> @Arana what was your experience with temp on these?


They were happy in a community tank kept at 24c but prefer it a little cooler  especially for breeding.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## zozo (5 Jul 2019)

James Burcham said:


> You think that would be too warm?



Since fish are cold blooded, they will take on invironmental temps.. This also has effect on its metabolism it will run faster at warmer temps. Than fish that evolved in colder regions with (excessive) seasonal fluctuating temp periodes. If these are kept at a constant warm temp will constantly run on a higher metabolisme and it will burn them up sooner shortening their life span. It's not that this is an agonizing torture for them, they simply age a lot faster and reach the end of their lifespan sooner. This super aging can result in weakoning and or catching disseases sooner. Seasonal temp fluctuations likely will also have effect on their hormonal household, since it makes them go into spawning or not. Disrupting this hormonal ballance could also have effect on their health and lifespan. That's a natural cycle for most cold blooded small animals especialy fish.

Thus too warm is rather a relative concept, if you like them to live their lifespan to full potential you need to give them a as natural as possible invironment preferably with fluctuating temps.

This goes for example for most fish indigenious to the northern hemisphere. Naturaly going through a very cold winter season almost shutting down and almost go into hibernation during this cold periode. If these fish are kept in an aqaurium they might only live a fraction of their full cycle potential. The Stickleback is the most popular aqaurium example for this. In natural streams and waters it can live 4 to 6 years in an aqaurium, one that lives longer than 12 months is a record breaker. 

Other concerns to monitor if cold water species are kept (too) warm is water polution, since they metabolize a lot faster require a lot more food and thus also produce a lot more waste. Since aqaurium keepres are prone to keep way to much fish per volume, the fish might polute the water sooner than anticipated and thus require a lot more water changes to prevent toxic ammonia build up.


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## alto (5 Jul 2019)

Dissolved oxygen levels are a significant factor  - best activity/color I’ve seen in these fish was a 17-18C tank (not mine)


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## James Burcham (5 Jul 2019)

alto said:


> Dissolved oxygen levels are a significant factor - best activity/color I’ve seen in these fish was a 17-18C tank (not mine)



That's pretty chilly!


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## James Burcham (5 Jul 2019)

@zozo thanks for the insight!  There is a lot of food for thought in your response. I don't think I'll be able to drop the tank temp too much without a chiller but I could probably get it down a couple more degrees. @72 deg farenheit I shouldn't have any adverse effects on my plants should I?


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## alto (5 Jul 2019)

James Burcham said:


> That's pretty chilly!


that’s why it’s a “mountain” minnow 
Though many shops will still display this fish in tropical tank

Most plants are fine with lower temperatures

Green Aqua runs their tanks at ~ 20-22 C (ie room temperature maintained) but I don’t recall if they measure each tank temperature (lights, filter etc can increase temp depending)


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## tiger15 (6 Jul 2019)

alto said:


> Check that these fish are not banned in your area - they are on the prohibited list now (in my area) as they are more than capable of surviving and breeding (with mad success) in local streams etc


Interesting.  WCM are extinct in their native habitat in White Cloud  Mountain, China due to industrial pollution, but has no trouble naturalizing outside China in many places due to their cold hardiness.  They are called poor man neon tetra   IME, they are superior to neon in hardiness, school tighter, males display interestingly to females, and breed easily as adults don’t eat their young.  The reason I am not keeping them now is that they are too tiny, and can easily be bullied or eaten by my bigger fish.


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## Mick.Dk (6 Jul 2019)

These were the very first fish I kept (not counting local cought stickleback and the likes in buckets and dishwashing bowls alongside all kinds of water-beetles, frogs and salamanders - sorry,  but yes I've been there, killing off a few,  too). The "White Cloud's" were really fascinating in behaviour,  quite easy to care for, nicely colured and allways in good health - and important to a very young kid: very affordable. 
Kept on their own,  they did not pray (significantly)  on their eggs and fry. As I recall,  the juvenile fish displayed a quite bright,  green stribe - allmost as irridescent as the colour of neons. Not surprisingly they seemed to appreciate quite strong flow in their tank and thrived at standard room temperature ( 18 - 20 Celcius) and plain tap-water in regular waterchanges. 
A highly recommendable, little fish.......... (come to think of it,  it may be time to get back to the simple joy of these little gems).....


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