# BBA



## Carpman (21 Nov 2016)

Is there a simple cure?
I have removed it when doing my water changes but a day or so later its back again.  
The first time it started to appear was after I had turned off the Co² and the lights, this was after I had finished my fishless/plantless cycling (didn't think there was any point in wasting the co²).
The tank is newly planted (1wk) current setup is Trigon 190 with Eheim 350 pro4 inline set at 25°, Co² running approx 2bps, photo period is 5 hrs with 2x28w T5no's with reflectors. I will be increasing my flow this wk with a Koralia Nano 2200.


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## kadoxu (21 Nov 2016)

I've been wanting to start this fire for a while... note that I have no experience with this, I've just made some research...

Trace detox... some people say that cutting traces (aka micro nutrients) for a few days and then dosing really small amounts, do wonders on BBA... let the fireworks begin!


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## Doubu (22 Nov 2016)

No secret but time and patience. Find the right balance for growth for your other plants and bba will die as a result due to the efficiencies of your other plants using what's available and leaving nothing left. That's what worked for me...


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## roadmaster (22 Nov 2016)

Low O2 level's and or organic matter in possible excess is when I experience the stuff.
Keeping my filter's cleaned monthly seems to help with both issues.
Also noted that when I run KNO3 lean,that the stuff more readily appears. (not sure of correlation)


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## Greenfinger2 (22 Nov 2016)

Hi Carpman, Spot dosing the Algae with Excel or carbo works too.The algae will go a light colour then die off


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## Carpman (22 Nov 2016)

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Carpman, Spot dosing the Algae with Excel or carbo works too.The algae will go a light colour then die off



Thanks everyone. I have upped my Co² to approx 172bpm to see how this affects it over next few days as the tank is still fishless. 

Could I run my Co² 24/7 for a few days ? 
Will the bba not return when I return to normal levels ? 
How to I find out my Co² ppm (my tester JBLPro scan measures in mg/l) ?
Forgot to mention that I am feeding with TNC complete at 3mls daily, reccomendation on bottle is to feed 20ml weekly will this make any difference ?


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## Doubu (22 Nov 2016)

You technically could - but I think we all have to realize that algae will always be part of a planted tank. You'll never get rid of it, only minimize it. IMO, adding CO2 on for 24hrs will not really help because there is an imbalance of some sort - and that imbalance will remain once again even after you revert back to normal CO2 durations. I am going to the ADA NA Gallery next year - and I'm going to inspect the tank closely to see if I can find any algae and whatnot (to see if it's true that even an expert's tank can have algae). But unless you've devoted your life's work trying to figure out this balance (like Amano has), it will take a lot of effort. No easy fix - just persistence and logic =).

Your best bet is to figure out the imbalance (may take some time, I'm still trying to figure it out) and tackle it like that. Perhaps your CO2 levels are sufficient but you don't have enough plant mass to support the lighting you have despite the lower light duration. Then I would lower intensity/remove the reflectors and monitor after a week. See what happens, if this helps - then you know that the light is too strong. Then what you do is lower the light intensity/duration even a bit more, and see what happens after a week. Or you could also add more plants and then see what happens the next week. If it looks good - but you still have some algae left, then try to lower your dosing regimen. Then monitor after a week and see what happens. Algae will always be present, but how much you see will be dependent on how diligent you are to finding the right balance.


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## ahjoe0digi (28 Nov 2016)

Doubu said:


> No secret but time and patience. Find the right balance for growth for your other plants and bba will die as a result due to the efficiencies of your other plants using what's available and leaving nothing left. That's what worked for me...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here

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## ahjoe0digi (28 Nov 2016)

I know black beard algae suppose to be black grey in color,  is there anything like green beard algae?  Similar to bba, but color green

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## GHNelson (28 Nov 2016)

Black-Beard Algae (BBA), Red-Brush Algae
Taken from....https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/good-algae-article.905/





Unstable CO2 levels will induce BBA!
The best way to combat Brush algae is by maintaining CO2 at 30ppm, nitrates at 15ppm and phosphates at 0.5ppm.
Leaves that are badly overtaken should be discarded.
When I had a problem with BBA, I dosed 1ml per 50 litres of Easy Carbo (equivalent to Flourish Excel) every other day for a week. The algae turned purplish/pinkish and disappeared.
Maintaining sufficient CO2 level and is the best way in controlling this algae.
Siamese Algae Eater will eat BBA.
Photo by Dusko Bojic.


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## GHNelson (28 Nov 2016)

ahjoe0digi said:


> I know black beard algae suppose to be black grey in color,  is there anything like green beard algae?  Similar to bba, but color green
> 
> Sent from my MX4 using Tapatalk


Green Beard Algae.....look in this  article.....https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/good-algae-article.905/
Its a good read but some of the authors thoughts...are a tad off the mark!
hoggie


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## simon Coram (28 Nov 2016)

hogan53 said:


> Black-Beard Algae (BBA), Red-Brush Algae
> Taken from....https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/good-algae-article.905/
> 
> View attachment 95011
> ...


Was this in conjunction with co2 injection. I've just started to easycarbo some bba.


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## Carpman (29 Nov 2016)

hogan53 said:


> Black-Beard Algae (BBA), Red-Brush Algae
> Taken from....https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/good-algae-article.905/
> 
> View attachment 95011
> ...



I have upped my Co² dosage to about 4bps approx 20mg/l (sorry dont know how to convert to ppm) gas starts and finishes 1hr before photo period which is 5hrs. Are you say this needs to be on 24/7 ?
The bba only seems to be appearing in 1 loacation on the wood, I clean this with a toothbrush during water changes.
I cant reduce my nitrates (norm is around 50ppm) at the moment because of water changes and its 40ppm from the tap.

I have now introduced a few Amano shrimp in the hope that they will help.
My next step will be either easy carbo or flourish excel and spot dose.


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## ahjoe0digi (29 Nov 2016)

Carpman said:


> I have upped my Co² dosage to about 4bps approx 20mg/l (sorry dont know how to convert to ppm) gas starts and finishes 1hr before photo period which is 5hrs. Are you say this needs to be on 24/7 ?
> The bba only seems to be appearing in 1 loacation on the wood, I clean this with a toothbrush during water changes.
> I cant reduce my nitrates (norm is around 50ppm) at the moment because of water changes and its 40ppm from the tap.
> 
> ...


20mg/l equal to 20ppm
Please do not use brush to remove as pieces of bba may take hold on other part and grow. Use excel or h2o2 instead. Use syringe to spot treat. 
If your pipe water is high in nitrate,  then no need to dose kno3, dose k2so4 for potassium if you didn't dosed it before. 
Amano won't eat bba. If I'm not mistaken 


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## Carpman (5 Dec 2016)

As I've not heard or read about this, long story short, after putting my fish in their new home 1 of my angels eat all my algae fish in question is below center.


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## ahjoe0digi (5 Dec 2016)

Carpman said:


> As I've not heard or read about this, long story short, after putting my fish in their new home 1 of my angels eat all my algae fish in question is below center.
> View attachment 95368


     

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## dw1305 (7 Dec 2016)

Hi all, 





Carpman said:


> 1 of my angels eat all my algae fish in question is below center.





Carpman said:


> During my LFS visit I spotted some Oto's which I've heard about here while talking to staff he mentions gold sucking loach's, thanks to LFS I come away with 6 loach and 3 oto's.


Did the Angel eat your loaches and _Otocinclus?_ or did it eat the BBA?

I think the <"Loaches"> get quite territorial as they grow.

cheers Darrel


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## Carpman (7 Dec 2016)

Excuse my poor grammar. When I transfered my old stock fish to their new home (trigon 190) 1 of the angels eat all the BBA, the angel in question is pictured above (left of center).


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## rebel (7 Dec 2016)

Love it! It must have been hungry. 

No other fish apart from SAE are reputed to eat BBA on a routine basis however. 

That angel is a keeper!


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## Carpman (7 Dec 2016)

rebel said:


> Love it! It must have been hungry. That angel is a keeper!


When I cleaned the BBA off the wood it would appear again in a couple of days, touch wood there has been no sight of it since.


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## limz_777 (30 Jan 2017)

Doubu said:


> You technically could - but I think we all have to realize that algae will always be part of a planted tank. You'll never get rid of it, only minimize it. IMO, adding CO2 on for 24hrs will not really help because there is an imbalance of some sort - and that imbalance will remain once again even after you revert back to normal CO2 durations. I am going to the ADA NA Gallery next year - and I'm going to inspect the tank closely to see if I can find any algae and whatnot (to see if it's true that even an expert's tank can have algae). But unless you've devoted your life's work trying to figure out this balance (like Amano has), it will take a lot of effort. No easy fix - just persistence and logic =).
> 
> Your best bet is to figure out the imbalance (may take some time, I'm still trying to figure it out) and tackle it like that. Perhaps your CO2 levels are sufficient but you don't have enough plant mass to support the lighting you have despite the lower light duration. Then I would lower intensity/remove the reflectors and monitor after a week. See what happens, if this helps - then you know that the light is too strong. Then what you do is lower the light intensity/duration even a bit more, and see what happens after a week. Or you could also add more plants and then see what happens the next week. If it looks good - but you still have some algae left, then try to lower your dosing regimen. Then monitor after a week and see what happens. Algae will always be present, but how much you see will be dependent on how diligent you are to finding the right balance.




ada tanks do get algae , but not likely to spot in their showroom tank since they are so diligent , if you spot  algae at the early stage , much easily to get rid then a full-blown neglected one


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## xim (30 Jan 2017)




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## limz_777 (31 Jan 2017)

this sumida aquarium was mentioned that it was to be maintained by two ada staff , which they have to rent a place for them to stay ,looks like they are slacking on the job ?


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## Doubu (4 Feb 2017)

limz_777 said:


> ada tanks do get algae , but not likely to spot in their showroom tank since they are so diligent , if you spot  algae at the early stage , much easily to get rid then a full-blown neglected one



Good to know! Makes me feel better for having algae in my tanks haha - conquer one thing another pops up...


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## Soilwork (24 Feb 2017)

kadoxu said:


> I've been wanting to start this fire for a while... note that I have no experience with this, I've just made some research...
> 
> Trace detox... some people say that cutting traces (aka micro nutrients) for a few days and then dosing really small amounts, do wonders on BBA... let the fireworks begin!



No fireworks from me but I am one of those people that believe trace overdose causes many problems one of them being BBA or other types of algae. 

I know some people are not on board with the trace toxicity thing but I toiled over my tank long enough to say wholeheartedly that whenever I added them from dry powders with the EI routine in mind I saw multiple issues. 

Four times it happened.  Now I have gone back to soil.  I haven't dosed micros since and I haven't had to use any easycarbo either.  It's early days but the differences have been obvious.


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## Soilwork (24 Feb 2017)

Soil tank using EI co2 and t5 lighting.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Soil tank after ceasing micros only.


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## Soilwork (24 Feb 2017)

Plants got way out of control.  Fish and shrimp stopped dying.  Amanos even carrying eggs. It was ridiculous.
I can show you the same before and after pics in my new tank too.


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## kadoxu (24 Feb 2017)

I can say that I was in the hospital for 5 days 2 weeks ago (my partner gave birth to our first son) and with no lights, CO2, and fertz I was amazed to see that after those 5 days the tank looked better than ever...


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## fablau (7 Mar 2017)

Wow, what is amazing Soilwork! What kind of soil do you use? And how much macros are you currently dosing? Weekly water change or less?


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## Soilwork (7 Mar 2017)

fablau said:


> Wow, what is amazing Soilwork! What kind of soil do you use? And how much macros are you currently dosing? Weekly water change or less?



Thank so much fablau.  I tore this tank down as it was too large.  Being Inbetween a chimney breast and a wall made maintenance very difficult.  The plants are the easier ones no doubt and they were taking lots of co2.

It was John innes no3 which was problematic initially.  I didn't have enough flow or surface agitation at first. 

I was doing full EI macros at 3 weekly doses.  Micros were not required.  I didn't mineralise the soil (it's just so messy) but added crushed coral and red clay balls.  Took about 6 months maybe more to get it to this stage but I made a lot of mistakes along the way.

Still trying to find the sweet spot in my new soil tank using John innes no1.


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## fablau (8 Mar 2017)

You are most than welcome, that tank looked great. Thank you for the info. I am sure the substrate gave enough traces for your plants to grow, clay must have plenty of those.  Good job indeed. Any plans for a new tank?


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## Soilwork (8 Mar 2017)

Thanks yes I do have a new tank up and running but it hasnt been easy.  Still trying to find the balance.  

I found out that John innes contains additional Fertilisers which may not help the situation initially.  No3 has 3x more than no1 but I think the loam/peat mix is a good one.  After a few month when soil pH and redox stabilise and I have the necessary anaerobic and aerobic micrograms required to facilitate plant growth things will improve.  I am using eco complete as a cap.

I'll post pictures or start a thread when the tank is looking better.  Some plants are responding very well while others are struggling a bit.  I've upped the co2 and reduced the light (those Chihiros A series pack a punch) and I'm continuing macros. Pretty confident things will improve.


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## fablau (10 Mar 2017)

Sounds good, please, keep us posted.


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