# Moss Tree Nano Rescape Advice



## Zedan (15 Jan 2019)

I'm looking for advice rescaping my moss tree nano low tech tank. Questions are numbered in the end of this post.




Tank Specs:
Tank: 13L with transparent lid
Light: 10W LED dimmed 7hrs
Substrate: Inert gravel with a tropica peat base layer
Filter: Hydor Prime 10 External (350LPH, 1.5L)
Plants: Dwarf Hair Grass carpet and Christmas Moss bonsai
Fish: Betta, 2 Platies, 3 Neons (2 jumped out), 3 Amanos, 1 Nerite, 10 MTS
Ferts: TNC Lite (No phosphate/Nitrate) dosing every other day.
Water: Very Hard, PH 8, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0
Temp: 24.5 Degrees Celcius
WC: 50% every weekend

This is the aquascape I have at the moment, its a basic DHG planted in gravel with a christmas moss tree. The substrate is not ideal but it was a rushed concept. I have already run into problems. Mainly that the moss on the tree grows slowly and gets covered in hair algae if it is exposed to high direct light. I have gotten around this by using a paper cut-out on the transparent tank lid. This allows the bright light to hit the carpet while shading the christmas moss and it is going much better now.

I plan to replace the substrate with Tropica Soil Powder, rescaped so that the tree sits on a hill in the same position. I want to plant Dwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis sp mini) because the Parvula DHG grows too fast even in the gravel and I don’t want the tank to require weekly trimming. However, I have read that the sp mini can be quite demanding. I have med/high light but no CO2 and I can’t use liquid carbon because it kills the moss.

I will plant Anubias Nana Petite at the base of the tree trunk, perhaps with some pygmy chain swords but I don’t know what else to do. I want to keep the scale and perspective so nano plants are best. I was thinking about a sand path in the shaded area which is difficult to grow plants in anyway, but it might be hard to scale. Or just some rocks perhaps? I also wondered if Flame moss could work somewhere to act like bushes.

I would like to stock the tank as highly as possible given the filtration and plant volume. But I would like some nano fish for scale (don’t worry the current inhabitants will enjoy my 3ft tank more).

I know that the  Dwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis sp mini) will establish quicker with liquid carbon but is mentioned above, this will kill the moss. I have considered redoing the moss tree with the yoghurt/blender method and then filling the tank so that the moss grows with dry start method, while the grass is submersed and dosed with carbon. I think the DSM will give a better effect on the tree but it has only just established an I am reluctant to tear it off.

Will chilli rasboras or ember tetras school in a tank this small? What about endlers? What nano fish would you recommend?


Are there any other nano plants which fit in with the miniature scale?


Will Dwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis sp mini) grow without CO2, in a high quality enriched substrate?


What should I do under the tree in the shaded area? The DHG parvula has already struggled to grow here. Sand Path? Rock Outcrop? Will any Dwarf Hairgrass/Eleocharis grow in the shade?


Will a sand path work in this small tank?


Is it worth dry starting the moss again to allow liquid carbon dosing of the  Dwarf Hairgrass (Eleocharis sp mini)? Will liquid carbon have a strong effect?


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## Seanogleby (15 Jan 2019)

That tank is way too small for those fish mate

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Seanogleby (15 Jan 2019)

Seanogleby said:


> That tank is way too small for those fish mate
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Ignore that missed the bit about the new tank. But at 13l the tank way to small. For. Any fish species imo 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## DutchMuch (15 Jan 2019)

Why do u want to stock it to the max?....
If anything understock it... i never understood why people always have this OCD fascination with Over stocking or getting as Close as they can to the borderline uninhabitable conditions. Filtration and plant volume unlike common belief, have absolutely nothing to do with your stocking on the first degree. Meaning, that isnt the first thing you want to pay attention to. In your vase you *Can* have an oscar....
But, if you want the oscar to live more than a day, you'd realize it needs a huge tank to *Thrive* and its own Space in a densely planted (preferred) aquascape. The scape doesn't even Need to be filtered mechanically?....

Use this example on anything else.


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## DutchMuch (15 Jan 2019)

1- You shouldn't even keep them if you have to ask this. 
2- Most if not all mosses, riccia, anubias sp. nana (and varieties), red root floaters, dhg, dbt, any other plant other than the obviously huge ones like echinodorus etc.
3- yes and high light helps
4- anubias nana
5- yes itll work in any size tank
6- no and yes


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## Zedan (15 Jan 2019)

Thanks for the responses so far. I appreciate the concerns about stocking. I don't intend to push limits, my #1 priority is a stable tank with no harmful build up of waste products. Within that constraint I would like as much colour and movement to watch.
And just as a PSA. I'm aware that the tank is ludicrously overstocked at the moment. It was meant to be just the Betta and inverts. The tetras and platies were dumped on me when this was my only tank. The fish do not show any signs of ill health, although the tetras certainly feel lonely.


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## alto (15 Jan 2019)

Which brand liquid carbon are you using?
Do you dilute before adding to the tank?

I’ve not observed adverse moss effects with Seachem Excel 

Chili rasboras would look OK in the scale of the tank BUT
Seriously Fish species profile


> *Aquarium Size*
> Though small it still needs space to swim and dominant males will form temporary territories when spawning so a group is best kept in an aquarium with base dimensions of at least 45 ∗ 30 cm.


It is well worth checking Seriously Fish for tank size etc recommendations as much consideration has been given to natural behaviour add temperament  of the fish when writing these profiles
This is one of the better scientific fact/research based aquarium sites available (anywhere)

Rather than fish, I’d add colourful shrimp to this scape - they’ll help significantly with moss issues - and small snails such as the horned nerites (smaller adult size than other nerites)

A single Betta would do fine as well (though most will eventually hunt shrimp) - there are some brilliant multicolour HMPK (Halfmoon plakat), these tend to be more active swimmers than the much longer finned Halfmoon types


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## Keith GH (16 Jan 2019)

Zedan

In my opinion that container is only suitable for plants and a few Shrimps.

Keith


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## DutchMuch (16 Jan 2019)

Keith GH said:


> Zedan
> 
> In my opinion that container is only suitable for plants and a few Shrimps.
> 
> Keith


i 100% agree with this.
I also 100% disagree that *Any fish* can be kept in this tank.

I will never understand the concept of putting fish in general in something under 5 gallons.


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## alto (16 Jan 2019)

The reality is that many Bettas go to far less suitable homes than what the OP has on offer here ... 13 litre container with filter, stable temp, plants, interesting environment


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## Zedan (16 Jan 2019)

alto said:


> Which brand liquid carbon are you using?
> Do you dilute before adding to the tank?
> 
> I’ve not observed adverse moss effects with Seachem Excel
> ...



I'm using easycarbo, dosed 0.2ml with a pipette which is the recommendation on the bottle. I have acquired a smaller pipette so I may try again with a lower dose but the moss reacted horribly before. I wondered if perhaps the melting would be followed by new growth but after many online reports of a similar thing I chose against it. If anyone has advice on this, please weigh in as I would like to know if the glutaraldehyde was the problem. 

I will always include amanos and snails as I find them essential to the ecosystem. A single betta is my preliminary idea and he is certainly betta off (fish pun) in this tank than the 4L empty cube in the pet shop.


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## Keith GH (17 Jan 2019)

Zedan


Zedan said:


> A single betta is my preliminary idea and he is certainly betta off (fish pun) in this tank than the 4L empty cube in the pet shop.



In other words you are leaving that Betta in that small container that is completely un suitable for him.

Keith


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## DutchMuch (17 Jan 2019)

alto said:


> The reality is that many Bettas go to far less suitable homes than what the OP has on offer here ... 13 litre container with filter, stable temp, plants, interesting environment





Zedan said:


> A single betta is my preliminary idea and he is certainly betta off (fish pun) in this tank than the 4L empty cube in the pet shop.


Alto completely said his statement incorrectly.

Alto refers to people who have had No idea that this information is OUT here to help them learn what is "right and wrong"
YOU have this help, and we are telling you it is wrong, yet you continue to do the incorrect thing.

Therefore you are no better if not Worse than the people putting them in shi**y tanks.


@Keith GH i must thank you yet again, for bringing some sense into this.


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## Keith GH (18 Jan 2019)

This information is from the RSPA Aust and nothing to do with this form to the best of my knowledge.

Keith

https://kb.rspca.org.au/how-should-i-keep-and-care-for-siamese-fighting-fish_441.html


RSPCA Australia knowledgebase / Companion animals / Fish / How should I keep and care for Siamese fighting fish?
*How should I keep and care for Siamese fighting fish?*


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## alto (18 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> Alto completely said his statement incorrectly.


By your reckoning 

BUT

if you want to encourage the “average” or “new” fish keeper to improve quality of life for their fish, stating emphatically &  brusquely how WRONG they are, will only lose you the opportunity 
Diplomacy (& patience) is far more effective


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## alto (18 Jan 2019)

RSPCA Australia also claim 



> Siamese fighting fish require a pH of around 7.0, GH 7-9º, KH 5-8º.



They’d do better to follow the guidelines posted in the Seriously Fish Betta splendens profile which is based upon various scientific published data


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## DutchMuch (18 Jan 2019)

alto said:


> By your reckoning
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


so saying that it is fine, and completely disregarding the statement of their inhabitants current care is the way to go?


lmao alto...


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## Zedan (18 Jan 2019)

The concerns around stocking are perfectly justified and these fish are much happier in my 3Ft tank now. 

I have rescaped the tank and will post in the journal section soon. I have one pressing question.
*Should I dry start the Eleocharis mini (tropica tissue culture) or just flood immediately? Will it grow significantly faster emersed? *

I have read many reports of Dwarf Hairgrass responding poorly to emersed growth. This will be a non-CO2 tank.


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