# EI method - without using KNO3??



## Franko (23 Apr 2014)

Hi there. I'm new here. Hope you dont mind me starting a new thread on this topic.
I'm a Londoner currently living in Singapore. This forum looks really great. Especially this thread was of great interest to me http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/potassium-nitrate-kno3-purchased-from-internet.16077/
and is relevant to what I'd like to ask you....

The trouble is - KNO3 is banned in Singapore. Its regarded as an explosive or something.  

So in order to do EI method I had to create a different macros mix to the normally reccommended one.
The problem is, that although my plants are going OK, they seem to be quite slow, and I think they are not as healthy as they could be. Various blemishes and colouration is not consistent among all leaves. Bright green/dark green/ others grey-green. Also rate of growth was quite slow.

I'd like to ask the members here what kind of EI mix they would make IF YOU CANNOT USE KNO3? I wonder if this might be an interesting challenge for the chemists out there. 

The EI mix I created was as follows:

MACROS:
In 250 ml of water: (not everything dissolves by the way and there is sediment in the bottle)
33g CANO3 (straight 1 for 1 swap with KNO3)
7.2g KH2PO4

For Micros I use a premixed solution I bought from a shop intended for aquarium and hydroponics. Its called Lushgro Micros and is popular here for this purpose.

I have already figured out that my mix is woefully lean in K. Anything else wrong with it?


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## Franko (23 Apr 2014)

Here is the info about my tank:

55l (59 cm x 28.5 x 33cm) I think thats about 15 US gallons.

My current water readings are:
Kh 1 (or zero - immediate colour change when testing with first drop of reagent)
Ph (after CO2 injection) 6
Gh - no idea. I dont have a test kit. But Singapore water is VERY soft. No scale in my kettle at all after 4 years.

Dosing with EI:
Macros solution:
33g CANO3 INSTEAD OF KNO3 (not allowed in Singapore)
7.2g KH2PO4
mixed into 250ml water (NB the powders are not totally dissolved in the water and there is sediment in the bottle.)
Micros:
A premixed solution called LushGro Micros intended for aquarium and hydroponics. Contains Iron, Manganese, Boron, Zinc, Copper, Molybdenum

Additional Dosing: 6ml of Flourish Potassium 3x per week (only started 2 weeks ago and effect is amazing)

50% water change weekly.

Lights: 4x T5s 8 hours daily. (But I suspect these tubes are cheap and not good output. Less than that and the pearling stops)

CO2: On very high. Drop checker stays pale green, almost yellow. Fish OK, but any more and get dizzy.

Substrate: ADA aquasoil. Used once before.

Plants:
HC Cuba covering 50% of floor
Glosso covering 25% of floor
Hairgrass covering 25% of floor
Nana Petite, a clump 75% the size of a tennis ball on a small piece of wood.

Animals
10 Amanos
2 Malay Shrimp
2 SAEs
2 Ottos
6 Galaxies


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## ian_m (23 Apr 2014)

You might need magnesium in form of magnesium sulphate especially as you have soft water. Also might need more potassium in form of potassium sulphate.


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## Franko (23 Apr 2014)

Thanks a lot for the advice Ian.
I was thinknig about both those ferts. I have started dosing Excel Potassium already. I think that is potassium sulphate if Im not wrong. Im adding 6ml on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday (ie macro days) and 3ml on Monday, Wednesday, Friday (ie Micros days).

As for Magnesium sulphate I have a pack at home already. How much do you think I should add, and how often? The tank is 55l.


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## dw1305 (23 Apr 2014)

Hi all, 
Potassium nitrate is an explosive, actually all nitrates are explosive, but you can use any combination of salts to give you the nutrients your plants need, the K+ and NO3- ions from potassium nitrate are the same as the K+ and NO3- ions from the dissolution any other K and NO3 containing compounds. 

What you do need to do is look carefully at the chemical formulae, because it makes a lot of difference to how much of each element your compound contains. As an example magnesium sulphate is "MgSO4.7H2O", and calcium nitrate is "Ca(NO3)2.4H2O" . 
There are worked examples for calcium nitrate <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/introduction-of-cano3-2-into-dosing-regime.17966/> and magnesium sulphate <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/epsom-salts.22215/#post-227644>.

cheers Darrel


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## Franko (24 Apr 2014)

Thanks a lot Darrel.

So if I've understood you correctly, you’re saying it’s OK to go ahead and use any chemicals off the fertilizer shelf but to calculate the amount of NPK accordingly. Sounds good.

Just one question though. I followed the links you gave.

In the Calcium Nitrate thread your calculation compares the amount of N in Ca(NO3)2.4H2O (=12% N) to that of KNO3 (=14% N).

Which, I think in Estimative Index terms means "about the same".

However in the post below that, ceg4048 says:

“The percentage of Nitrate in (CaNO3)2 is only about a quarter of what it is compared to KNO3 so that means you'd have to dose about 4X as much Calcium Nitrate to get the equivalent amount of Nitrate that can be found in Potassium Nitrate.”


So I’m a bit confused. Are the two things contradictory or have I misunderstood?


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## dw1305 (24 Apr 2014)

Hi all, 





Franko said:


> In the Calcium Nitrate thread your calculation compares the amount of N in Ca(NO3)2.4H2O (=12% N) to that of KNO3 (=14% N).


 That is right. K = RAM 39, O = 16, N = 14, H = 1 and Ca = 40 (from <http://www.ptable.com/>). 

So KNO3 = 39 +14 + (3*16) = RMM = 101, so you have 14/101= 14% N (and 62% NO3) and 39% K. 
Ca(NO3)2.4H2O = 40 + (14*2) + (48*2) + (4*18) = RMM = 236, so you have 28/236 = 12%N (and 53% NO3) and 40/236= 17% Ca.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (24 Apr 2014)

Franko said:


> use any chemicals off the fertilizer shelf but to calculate the amount of NPK accordingly


Careful in choosing, as if they contain ammonium and/or urea they will be toxic to fish.


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## dw1305 (24 Apr 2014)

Hi all, 





ian_m said:


> as if they contain ammonium and/or urea they will be toxic to fish


 Good point, gardeners use both urea (CO(NH2)2) and compounds like ammonium nitrate (NH3NO3) and ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4) that have high percentages of nitrogen, but we have to exercise caution as NH3 as highly toxic.

cheers Darrel


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## Franko (24 Apr 2014)

Thanks both.

So in order to bring my Ca(NO3)2 fert regime up to the full amount of NO3 that would have been delivered by using KN03, I'll just dose a bit extra. I have created another mix of Ca(NO3)2 in water without the KH2PO4. So I'll just dose a bit of that new mix on top of the old one. 

Next question though - 
As my Ca(NO3)2 doesn't contain any K which the KNO3 would have done - how much Flourish Potassium should I dose?
I tried looking at the Fourish website which has a nice calculator, but it expects you to know how much K is already in the tank…

My tank is 55l. Can anyone suggest a dose of Flourish K?


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## ian_m (24 Apr 2014)

Franko said:


> As my Ca(NO3)2 doesn't contain any K which the KNO3 would have done - how much Flourish Potassium should I dose?


Much cheaper is potassium carbonate or potassium sulphate ? http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=93_69


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## dw1305 (24 Apr 2014)

Hi all, 





ian_m said:


> Much cheaper is potassium carbonate or potassium sulphate


 I agree with "ian_m", I'd definitely buy a potassium containing compound, if you buy any proprietary mix, you are going to pay a very large mark up.

If you buy potassium sulphate (K2SO4) you can use the calculator at the excellent "James' Planted Tank". 
<http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm>.

Potassium carbonate (K2CO3) will raise dKH, which might be an advantage if you have very soft water?  or the other options are KCl, which is widely available, contains ~60% K and is cheap, or mono-potassium phosphate (KH2PO4), which supplies both K and PO4.

cheers Darrel


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