# Fish suggestions please . . .



## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

So guys, I'm after some suggestions for fish to add my my existing tank (journal here: Sandy Nook) - its an established and heavily planted tank, with lots of surface plant cover. Running on RO with soft water parameters. I did have a shoal of Kubotai Rasbora, which I had for well over a year, but sadly their numbers have dwindled to one remaining fish.

In the tank are also a decent shoal of Chilli's and a shoal of Embers, all of which are doing well, so I am looking for suggestions for new fish to add to replace the Kubotai.

Obviously I'd like peaceful community fish to complement the chilled out Chilli's and Embers, but perhaps a fish that is a little more active than my somewhat lazy Embers. Whilst I also appreciate most fish will predate on baby shrimp, I also don't want anything that will actively hunt them or bother the adults, so most cichlids are out I'd assume.

My local MA has a big stock of tiny little juvenile Honey Gourami's around 20-25mm long which look great, but never having kept them before I'm unsure of whether they will be appropriate for my 100 litre tank, or if they'll get too big? (even though I believe they max out at around 50mm all the other fish are probably below 30mm). I'm also unsure on quantities, as I read wildly differing reports with some people keeping pairs, and others recommending 6+? Seriously Fish recommends 4-6 individuals, and that would probably be the maximim I could add to my tank.

The same MA also has some nice Threadfin Rainbows which I like, but again I'm unsure how well suited they might be for my tank - I could do a shoal of 6-8 of those perhaps?

I'm obviously also open to any other suggestions?


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## Wolf6 (2 Sep 2021)

For my kids tank I got him 6 Tanichthys micagemmae, very active and a lot of fun. Havent seen them bother shrimp or small fish fry. Might even consider them for my own tank as I'm getting bored by most tetra behaviour. 
I've had honey gourami in much smaller tanks, they should fit in just fine. Their colouring and behaviour makes them fun but not obtrusive. I did keep them in a pair in my 55L tank.


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## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> For my kids tank I got him 6 Tanichthys micagemmae, very active and a lot of fun. Havent seen them bother shrimp or small fish fry. Might even consider them for my own tank as I'm getting bored by most tetra behaviour.
> I've had honey gourami in much smaller tanks, they should fit in just fine. Their colouring and behaviour makes them fun but not obtrusive. I did keep them in a pair in my 55L tank.



Thanks for that @Wolf6 - Tanichthys micagemmae are not a fish I've come across before, I'll keep an eye out for those.


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## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

I'm also considering some Dwarf Pencil Fish (Nannostomus Marginatus) - but given I already have a shoal of Chilli's I don't want the tank to be too 'surface dweller' heavy.


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## DTM61 (2 Sep 2021)

I started with two honeys in my 100l, they bred and now I have five, they seem very happy. 

My brother has a shoal of 15 threadfins in the same size tank and they also seem happy and are very active! They definitely prefer good surface cover but use the whole tank.


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## Conort2 (2 Sep 2021)

Seeing as you’re using RO already and have the boraras which like the same conditions why don’t you give chocolate gouramis a try? I think they’d suit what you’re after perfectly. Often noted for being difficult but I think that’s more due to people keeping them in the wrong water conditions.

cheers


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## tam (2 Sep 2021)

Threadfins are very nice, don't show that well in the LFS. Don't bother shrimp at all. 

I like the sundadanio axelrodi (fish in my profile picture) they are also too small to bother shrimp - about the same size as embers but a nice colour contrast. Not sure how easy they are to find, seem a bit seasonal when I've tried in past.


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## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Seeing as you’re using RO already and have the boraras which like the same conditions why don’t you give chocolate gouramis a try? I think they’d suit what you’re after perfectly. Often noted for being difficult but I think that’s more due to people keeping them in the wrong water conditions.
> 
> cheers



Thanks Conor, I did look at the Chocolate Gourami's as they are also in the local MA. Do they grow smaller than the Honey's, and how many should I be looking at? I'm also not confident in my (or the LFS staff's) ability to correctly sex them, does the mix of sexes matter?


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## Zeus. (2 Sep 2021)

High CO2 tolerant fish may be worth a look, nice colours too


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## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

Zeus. said:


> High CO2 tolerant fish may be worth a look, nice colours too


 Come on man, be sensible . . . . it’s pretty obvious the squid would eat all my shrimp! 😏


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## Conort2 (2 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks Conor, I did look at the Chocolate Gourami's as they are also in the local MA. Do they grow smaller than the Honey's, and how many should I be looking at? I'm also not confident in my (or the LFS staff's) ability to correctly sex them, does the mix of sexes matter?


Probably a little bit smaller than a honey gourami but not by much. Think a smallish group of 6 or so may be ok. 

I don’t think they’re the easiest to sex to be fair, males have pointed fins and are slightly larger but there is no obvious difference in the sexes.


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## Wookii (2 Sep 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Probably a little bit smaller than a honey gourami but not by much. Think a smallish group of 6 or so may be ok.
> 
> I don’t think they’re the easiest to sex to be fair, males have pointed fins and are slightly larger but there is no obvious difference in the sexes.



Does the mix of sexes not matter too much then, or am I going to have issues if I have too many males for example?


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## KirstyF (2 Sep 2021)

A vote for Honey Gourami here. I kept a small group of 5 very happily. Always out and about and they coloured up beautifully after a short while in my tank. Also found that they used all areas of the tank, other than one chap who kept making bubble nests on the surface. Lovely little fish. 😊


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## KirstyF (2 Sep 2021)

Cherry barbs are small and gorgeous colour too. The lads will show off to each other a little but not aggressive, fairly active and I never found them shy. Again I kept just 6 of these in the same tank as my Honey’s.


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions @KirstyF


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## Garuf (3 Sep 2021)

Butterfly barb or 5 bat barb?


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

Can anyone confirm whether the adult fish sizes shown on Seriously Fish and other sites represent the total length including fins, or just the length of the body excluding fins? For a fish like Threadfin Rainbows, the long fins can be 50% of their actual body length.


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

Garuf said:


> Butterfly barb or 5 bat barb?



Thanks for the suggestions. The Butterfly Barbs are a nice size.


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## kammaroon (3 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Can anyone confirm whether the adult fish sizes shown on Seriously Fish and other sites represent the total length including fins, or just the length of the body excluding fins? For a fish like Threadfin Rainbows, the long fins can be 50% of their actual body length.


Seriously Fish reports fish sizes in "standard lengths", so excludes the tail fins. Including tail fins would be "total length".


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## ScareCrow (3 Sep 2021)

A bit bigger than butterfly barbs (much deeper bodied too) but with similar colouration, drape fin barbs are nice. I've not kept either and have only seen them in a shop once. I don't get to fish shops that often though so could be as common as guppies for all I know.
I think sparkling gouramis are quite underated but are beautiful when settled and especially in sun light. Plus the croaking is a bit different to a lot of fish.
I do like honey gouramis though, a group looks great. To me they look like autumn leaves floating in the tank. I've heard a few people say males can be a bit territorial though, so probably best to avoid multiples. They're easy to sex though so shouldn't be a problem.


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> A bit bigger than butterfly barbs (much deeper bodied too) but with similar colouration, drape fin barbs are nice. I've not kept either and have only seen them in a shop once. I don't get to fish shops that often though so could be as common as guppies for all I know.
> I think croaking gouramis are quite underated but are beautiful when settled and especially in sun light. Plus the croaking is a bit different to a lot of fish.
> I do like honey gouramis though, a group looks great. To me they look like autumn leaves floating in the tank. I've heard a few people say males can be a bit territorial though, so probably best to avoid multiples. They're easy to sex though so shouldn't be a problem.



Thanks for the suggestions - I'm shying away from the barbs a little, possibly wrongly, mainly due to mouth size, and protection of my shrimp. I love the look of the Croaking Gourami, but that getting too big for my tank at 7cm, I want to keep below 5cm if possible.

Very apt description on the Gourami's - I though the same when I was watching some video of the Chocolate Gourami's among leaf litter yesterday. On the Honey Gourami sexing, is it still easy to tell when they are 20-25mm long juveniles? The MA has a tank chock full of them, so it's going to be a tricky exercise for my untrained eye.


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## ScareCrow (3 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks for the suggestions - I'm shying away from the barbs a little, possibly wrongly, mainly due to mouth size, and protection of my shrimp. I love the look of the Croaking Gourami, but that getting too big for my tank at 7cm, I want to keep below 5cm if possible.
> 
> Very apt description on the Gourami's - I though the same when I was watching some video of the Chocolate Gourami's among leaf litter yesterday. On the Honey Gourami sexing, is it still easy to tell when they are 20-25mm long juveniles? The MA has a tank chock full of them, so it's going to be a tricky exercise for my untrained eye.


Sorry I meant sparkling gourami not croaking. As you say there is a big size difference! I've editted my original post.
The honey gouramis should still be sexable, how easy it will be is another thing. Males have pointed dorsal and anal fins. At that size this should be visible. Depending how long they've been in the shop/quality of the fish some of the males might have started to colour up more, so they'll be brighter yellow and possibly starting to get a black bar on their underside. Females tend to be rounder all round. So round end to the dorsal fin and rounder body. They're less colourful and have a horizontal band, which runs through their eye back to their tail.
Colouration can be age, stress or quality dependent so I'd look at the fins as your best guide.


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## ScareCrow (3 Sep 2021)

@Wookii just found this thread which might be of help when trying to sex those gouramis. I've gone down a gourami rabbit hole now


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## bazz (3 Sep 2021)

Hi,
I have no personal experience but just from reading on here and 1 or 2 other sites, that it would be difficult to trust any Gourami with shrimp.
I did keep a couple of Honey Gouramis years ago (without shrimp) and they spent the days constantly probing through the plants/hardscape. That said, they are without doubt beautiful fish.
If my CRS don't soon multiply, I may give up on them, lower the GH (less than the current 5) and PH, and look into Samurai Gouramis. They had some a while ago in Lincoln MA (along with standard chocolates), but not been in there for a couple of months.
Cheers!


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Sorry I meant sparkling gourami not croaking. As you say there is a big size difference! I've editted my original post.
> The honey gouramis should still be sexable, how easy it will be is another thing. Males have pointed dorsal and anal fins. At that size this should be visible. Depending how long they've been in the shop/quality of the fish some of the males might have started to colour up more, so they'll be brighter yellow and possibly starting to get a black bar on their underside. Females tend to be rounder all round. So round end to the dorsal fin and rounder body. They're less colourful and have a horizontal band, which runs through their eye back to their tail.
> Colouration can be age, stress or quality dependent so I'd look at the fins as your best guide.





ScareCrow said:


> @Wookii just found this thread which might be of help when trying to sex those gouramis. I've gone down a gourami rabbit hole now



That's great, thanks @ScareCrow


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

bazz said:


> Hi,
> I have no personal experience but just from reading on here and 1 or 2 other sites, that it would be difficult to trust any Gourami with shrimp.
> I did keep a couple of Honey Gouramis years ago (without shrimp) and they spent the days constantly probing through the plants/hardscape. That said, they are without doubt beautiful fish.
> If my CRS don't soon multiply, I may give up on them, lower the GH (less than the current 5) and PH, and look into Samurai Gouramis. They had some a while ago in Lincoln MA (along with standard chocolates), but not been in there for a couple of months.
> Cheers!



I looked at the Samurai last night whilst in a Gourami rabbit hole of my own, they do look beautiful, but I could only find them at one dubious eBay seller on a 'Pre-order' basis for £20 each! Good to know MA occasionally get them in.


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## Wookii (3 Sep 2021)

Well, decision made. . .






I spent a good hour in MA trying to decide, but there was just something peacefully elegant about the way the Chocolates moved around the shop tank, and those bright gold bands, that was strangely captivating. I think they’ll be the perfect fit for my tank - thanks for the suggestion @Conort2, and thanks everyone for your help as always.


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## bazz (3 Sep 2021)

Nice looking fish mate, looking forward to seeing them in a FTS once they're settled!


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## Dominik K (3 Sep 2021)

Congrats! They look stunning.


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## Conort2 (3 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Well, decision made. . .
> 
> View attachment 173849
> 
> I spent a good hour in MA trying to decide, but there was just something peacefully elegant about the way the Chocolates moved around the shop tank, and those bright gold bands, that was strangely captivating. I think they’ll be the perfect fit for my tank - thanks for the suggestion @Conort2, and thanks everyone for your help as always.


Great choice, They look to be In good condition! I Think they’re the perfect match with boraras. Make sure you keep their water nice and soft and tannin stained, the gourami and the boraras will glow.

cheers


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## shangman (3 Sep 2021)

Very nice choice, they are very intriguing fish. Looking forward to reading about their antics from you!


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## bazz (9 Oct 2021)

Alright Wookii,
How are the Gouramis settling in, all good I hope?
Cheers!


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## Wookii (10 Oct 2021)

bazz said:


> Alright Wookii,
> How are the Gouramis settling in, all good I hope?
> Cheers!



It’s been an interesting learning curve @bazz to be honest.

They are lovely fish and they seem much more intelligent than the other fish I have. I love my Chillis and Embers, but they are much more like typical fish governed by their base instincts - they appear to think mainly about food and little else.

The Chocolate Gourami’s on the other hand are genuinely curious - they come to the front of the glass when I’m near the tank, and eyeball be closely - you can kind of tell there is something else going on behind the eyes, and they’re trying to work out what’s going on.

They’re surprisingly gregarious too, often swimming around in a shoal. One fish though appears to have set him/her self up as the dominant fish - having grown really quickly - and decided the front of the glass is their territory. There is no fighting as such, but he/she will chase off the other Gourami’s when they get near,  particularly at feeding times. The others don’t seem overly bothered about it, but do tend to hang around at the back of the tank instead, which isn’t ideal.

I also found yesterday morning, that one of them had jumped out of the tank during the night, which was really gutting. I suspect the dominant fish had chased it out of the tank during the night. So I nipped to MA yesterday afternoon and bought two more to take the shoal to 6x, which I was intending to do in a couple of weeks anyway.

It was really strange though when I added the new pair after I’d acclimated them - the dominant one abandoned his/her post at the front of the tank, and the whole group of six shoaled up tight together and did slow purposeful laps of the tank and in amongst the plants - interacting with one another as they went - almost like an organised “getting to know you” session 😂 it was really interesting to watch.

I have also noticed that the Gourami’s are much more actively hunting in amongst the plants and moss than the other fish. There are lots of scuds (and likely scud babies) and other fauna in amongst the greenery that they presumably like hunting, but I’m also seeing less baby shrimp about. So I’ve converted my failed Moina tank into a shrimp breeding tank now to try and support the population.

All in all, they are lovely fish, and a welcome and contrasting addition to the tank - their dark brown colouration in combination with the stunning shiny gold bands, give them a really understated beauty. I thoroughly recommend them 👍🏻


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