# What Remineralising parameters do you aim for ? or Products do you use?



## Zeus. (20 Jan 2021)

Hi all,

If you use RO water and then remineralise it what parameter do you aim for? or products do you use?

Calcium concentration -[Ca]
Magnesium concentration -[Mg]
Potassium concentration -[K]
Permanent harness - dGH
Temporary hardness -dKH
and possibly Iron- [Fe]
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio

You might not have all the figure but any input will help.

Commercial products we have on the IFC calculator ATM are limited to three ATM







So any more folk use would be helpful also as can add them as well

Reason I ask is two fold.

1. So if we can have some consensus of what range to aim for, I can see about having the figures incorporated into the IFC calculator so others can use them in making their DIY Remineralising salts/agents
2. Looking at going down the RO route myself soon, so getting some parameters to aim for would help

Cheers,
Zeus


----------



## Hanuman (20 Jan 2021)

Most people who know what they are doing would use none of the products above but would probably use compounds directly such as Calcium and Magnesium sulphate or other compounds to remineralize. I am in multiple high tech tanks group over facebook and most long timers swear by the 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio. In fact that's the ratio used by EI dosing. I personally don't even bother with that. I only aim for 20/25ppm Ca. Mg comes along the fertilizers which is plenty.


----------



## Wookii (20 Jan 2021)

*What I planned to do:*

I don't have the target concentrations to hand, but used:

Calcium Chloride
Magnesium Sulphate
Potassium Carbonate

*Targets:*
Permanent harness - dGH - *5-6dGH*
Temporary hardness -dKH - *2-3dKH*

and possibly Iron- [Fe] - *In micro mix*
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - *3:1

What actually happened:*

The Sieryu stone in my tank leaches loads of Calcium Carbonate, so despite daily 25% water changes with pure RO:

*Actual:*
Permanent harness - dGH -  *~10-11dGH*
Temporary hardness -dKH - *~6-7dKH*
and possibly Iron- [Fe] - *In micro mix*
Ca: Mg ( : K) ratio - *Unknown (MgSO4 added at EI levels in macro mix)*



Zeus. said:


> Reason I ask is two fold.
> 
> 1. So if we can have some consensus of what range to aim for, I can see about having the figures incorporated into the IFC calculator so others can use them in making their DIY Remineralising salts/agents
> 2. Looking at going down the RO route myself soon, so getting some parameters to aim for would help
> ...



It comes down largely to the livestock to be kept I think. A lot of the fish we keep in planted tanks are from soft water regions, so targets of 2dKH (to account for some soil buffering), and 2-3dGH are likely optimal - possibly even less for blackwater species.

However that might not provide enough Calcium in the water column for shrimp to moult successfully. That is why I targeted a higher 5-6dGH originally. Whether they need this much is a matter for debate though - but I saw it as a reasonable compromise for shrimp and fish.

The main takeaway for me is, if you want to target specific parameters, make sure you have inert hardscape!! . . . Schoolboy lesson learned for me!


----------



## papa_c (20 Jan 2021)

Hey Zeus,

This is what I remin my RO water to


----------



## Zeus. (20 Jan 2021)

@papa_c those figure check out nicely with what I have done, always like to cross check calculations with other work 



Had to make a few estimates for Ca:Mg ratio but its in the right order.
The [ S ] is the same on hidden sheets



just didn't have the room to show [ S ] ppm and [SO4]

( Forum doesnt like '[ S ]' when theres no spaces 😂)


----------



## Nick potts (20 Jan 2021)

I no longer check the actual values, I just remineralise to a TDS of 175ppm. I think it came to around 5-6gh and 4-5kh using jbl aquadur


----------



## jaypeecee (20 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> It comes down largely to the livestock to be kept I think. A lot of the fish we keep in planted tanks are from soft water regions, so targets of 2dKH (to account for some soil buffering), and 2-3dGH are likely optimal - possibly even less for blackwater species.
> 
> However that might not provide enough Calcium in the water column for shrimp to moult successfully. That is why I targeted a higher 5-6dGH originally. Whether they need this much is a matter for debate though - but I saw it as a reasonable compromise for shrimp and fish.


Hi @Wookii 

There are a few threads around at present dealing with this topic. I agree with what you say above but I always aim for alkalinity/carbonate hardness of 3 - 4 dKH and GH whatever is recommended in _Seriously Fish_ for the fish species in the tank. I once had a pH crash in a tank so that's why I choose the above KH range. 

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee (20 Jan 2021)

Nick potts said:


> I no longer check the actual values, I just remineralise to a TDS of 175ppm. I think it came to around 5-6gh and 4-5kh using jbl aquadur


Hi @Nick potts 

Do you measure the TDS of the tank water and/or the TDS of the water being used to do the water change? My point is that the reading you will get from a TDS meter is affected by a range of 'stuff' in the water - not just the minerals you want to add. No doubt you are aware of this but I thought I'd mention it - just in case. Also note that JBL _Aquadur_ is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.

JPC


----------



## Nick potts (20 Jan 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Nick potts
> 
> Do you measure the TDS of the tank water and/or the TDS of the water being used to do the water change? My point is that the reading you will get from a TDS meter is affected by a range of 'stuff' in the water - not just the minerals you want to add. No doubt you are aware of this but I thought I'd mention it - just in case. Also note that JBL _Aquadur_ is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.
> 
> JPC


I should mention this is a shrimp tank, so might not be relevant to the post topic.

I test the tank and freshwater, the tank water does not change much before the next WC. 

Yes your right about the aquadur


----------



## Zeus. (21 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> *What I planned to do:*
> 
> I don't have the target concentrations to hand, but used:
> 
> ...


So a max out CaCO3 option to its solubility limit may be useful 😏


----------



## Wookii (21 Jan 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> There are a few threads around at present dealing with this topic. I agree with what you say above but I always aim for alkalinity/carbonate hardness of 3 - 4 dKH and GH whatever is recommended in _Seriously Fish_ for the fish species in the tank. I once had a pH crash in a tank so that's why I choose the above KH range.
> 
> JPC



Yeah, I guess if you have elements in your tanks that are buffering the KH down significantly you need to account for those, but if you don't and you are able to maintain a stable alkalinity, 2dKH should be sufficient to buffer any organic acids created in the tank. Many rainwater users on here add no alkalinity buffering to their tanks at all.



jaypeecee said:


> Also note that JBL _Aquadur_ is not a complete remineralizer - its job is to raise KH and GH. I have a funny feeling that this has recently been mentioned on another thread.
> 
> JPC



I've seen you mention this before John, and it might be worth you outlining what you mean by a "complete remineralizer" in case there is anything that @Zeus might want to include in the calculator revision.

Per the JBL Aquadur information label, the contents are:



> Calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, magnesium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate



That seems to include everything required to remineralise RO water, namely Calcium, Magnesium and Carbonates. What else needs to be included for it to be a 'complete' remineraliser?


----------



## jaypeecee (21 Jan 2021)

Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

The list of compounds in your post immediately above (from the JBL info label) is the first time I've seen a list of ingredients in JBL _Aquadur_. The reason for thinking of _Aquadur_ as incomplete is because JBL (on their website) refer to _Aquadur_ simply as stated below:

*"JBL Aquadur*

*Mineral salt water conditioner to raise the hardness of freshwater aquariums"*

So, thanks for setting the record straight.

JPC


----------



## Zeus. (21 Jan 2021)

We use to have JBl Aquador - took it off as as we didnt have the Ca and Mg ratios
However if we can set the Ca:Mg ratio




or playing around with salts you can make a Clone  solution (with a better Cl:SO4 ratio/levels)  and just add 1ml/10l of RO water


----------



## tam (22 Jan 2021)

Off the shelf that do gh and kh...

Tropic Re-Min Tropical
Salty Shrimp GH/KH
Shrimp King gh/kh

There are a few variations on shrimp ones, both the above do the gh and kh, rather than the more specialist shrimp varieties.


----------



## Zeus. (22 Jan 2021)

tam said:


> Off the shelf that do gh and kh...
> 
> Tropic Re-Min Tropical
> Salty Shrimp GH/KH
> ...






Unfortunately no Ca or Mg ratios/data


----------



## JoshP12 (23 Jan 2021)

Hi all,

Here is current:

My water is:
9Ca, 2Mg

I add 15 Ca, 16 Mg, 24 K

at water change ~ 80%.

My KH in tap is 1, if it wasn't I'd use Potassium bicarb and get to 1.

Josh


----------



## Zeus. (23 Jan 2021)

Shrimp King Mineral Fluid double dosage does say one drop per litre, 20 drops per ml so 1ml per 20Litres.
No Vitamins in clone, however if you are feeding a source which is appropriate that shouldn't be an issue IMO, The added Vitamins may be a 'red herring' to make you think your getting something extra you need when in reality the shrimp may have an abundance of the Vitamin already. Misdirection of the facts/information of what a product contains and the benefits of it is a standard advertising campaign of companies. If there was hard facts to backup the need for the extra vitamins the companies would be showing the the facts that support their claims ( I would ) .

Shame I am struggling to get the analysis data sheets for the products as that would get us the Ca:Mg ratio.

I have coded the program so it uses the Ca:Mg ratio of product 'if known' and 'if unknown' you get to set the Ca:Mg ratio yourself


----------

