# Long photoperiod



## domsfishadventure (14 Dec 2017)

Hi,

Looked around a lot but can't seem to find a clear answer.

I'm current running dual photo periods on my 350 moderately plant tank with co2. Juwel helia lux LED light.

Dual light periods so I can see fish before and after work. 7-12, then 6-11.

I have a number of red plants (althernanthea?) which needs high light I believe so they are turned up high.

I was considering running a longer single period 7-11 with the lights on low, about 20% and ramping them up for 4/5 hours in the afternoon to satisfy the light hungry plants.

I'm struggling to understand if this will be an issue as I have co2 and dose ei and assume the plants will not be limited. 

Any ideas or opinions. I also love how the fish and tank looks with dim lights.

Happy to have ideas thrown around.

Thanks


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Dec 2017)

domsfishadventure said:


> I have a number of red plants (althernanthea?) which needs high light


Hello,
         There are no plants that "need" high light. There are only high light junkie hobbyists who make excuse for their tank in order to get their fix of brightness.



domsfishadventure said:


> I was considering running a longer single period 7-11 with the lights on low, about 20% and ramping them up for 4/5 hours in the afternoon


Yes, this is fine, but as I mentioned, the satisfaction is not for the plants sake. They really do not care. The low power at the beginning actually will benefit the plants more than the high light at the end.



domsfishadventure said:


> I also love how the fish and tank looks with dim lights.


Fish enjoy low light. They and the plants in the tank come from regions in the world where the light is typically dim.

Cheers,


----------



## Danny (15 Dec 2017)

@ceg4048

I would be very interested on your opinion of the ADA Aquasky lights if you have looked into them?


----------



## Edvet (15 Dec 2017)

1) these are must haves, only light that can grow beautifull plants, no chance for any other results, and cheap too
2) i don't care, all lights can grow plants, overpriced
Let the betting begin:


----------



## zozo (15 Dec 2017)

domsfishadventure said:


> Hi,
> 
> Looked around a lot but can't seem to find a clear answer.



For strong and long light periodes and if it's possible the answer his hidden in plain sight   If you happen to see a beautifully lush and clear algae free garden pond in the summer, when the sun rises at 6AM in the morning and sets after 22PM in the evening.. Than it has a pretty darn long and rather high light periode but if it still has clear water, is algae free, lush and green and even with reds if you want. If that's possible, than anything should be possible under any artificial light source available with a longer than average periode. We only need to figure out, how to fix that.

I did put it to the test last summer with building an 80 litre aqaurium in the garden at an unshaded spot. And it worked out like a charm. Tho it's a 80 litre tank it's a total 300 litre water body, there is a bath tub bellow it functioning as a sump but equaly clear and algae free.

this was at the summers end e few weeks before stripped it down. (low tech - very long sunlight periode) Only fertilized dirt soil, never added a gram of ferts besides some magnesium.





It went completely wild, i just did let it go with a minimum manicuring. This is about 4 months worth growing only trimmed it once. But i've never managed to grow so much dense and healthy potamogeton gayi in a few moths time indoors under artificial light. Not even in the high tech tank..




Next year i'm going to try to manage it a bit more.. With manicuring it and try some different plant spp, i'll put in some Rotala's. Also planning a second tank next to it.  Bets are on!! Whish me luck.

Not to make a statement nor dispute some others opinions.. This is pure experimental fun to satisfy my own curiosity about planted aquariums under the sun. I'm personaly convinced too, indoors you do not need such high light intensities nor such long periodes. Tho personaly i'm definitively a fan of long + 12 hour periode and all my indoor tanks have that with a rather low intensity. Not that i think it needs it, just because i experience that i can and with it i enjoy to view a lit tank for a longer day period from 7 in the morning till past 9 in the evening. I just don't like to watch a dark aquarium.


----------



## domsfishadventure (15 Dec 2017)

zozo, thanks so much for your input. I think I may be worth trying it myself. After all, is that not a part of the hobby?

My initial concern was losing the reds in my althernanthera and rotala or hurting the Lilaeopsis by turning the light down. So I ran two high light periods to still enjoy the tank.

So then I thought, why not run a long single period wit low light for about 16 hours (7-11), with a burst in the middle. Plants happy, fish happy. (I have not tried this, YET).
But based on some input I can just run 16hrs at low light and wont hurt my red plants or Lilaeopsis.

I run JBL pressurized Co2 via in inline diffuser and have read that this helps even in low light so will keep using it regardless. its cheap. Would I run it the full 16 hrs lol

So

1) Low light 16 hours
2) low light 16 hrs with a high light burst in the middle. (high light is relative as I believe the helialux on a 350 is low light bordering on medium)

Thanks again guys, love this site.


----------



## domsfishadventure (15 Dec 2017)

by the way, the tank is fine gravel with root tabs, dose EI. Perhaps a little over stocked (once fish fully grown). everything spawns, Apisto vajeita, butterfly cichlid, rainbows, with the Juwel internal filter, JBL 1901e and two koralia 1600s.

amazon swords, ludwigia, rotala, anubia, java fern, java and Christmas moss, pogostemon.


----------



## zozo (15 Dec 2017)

Last 3 years i'm experimenting with leds and controllers and gave me the excact same idea, long periode, start low and slowly ramp it up to mid day and go down again. It works pretty good. But 3 years aint much experience and aint much time to learn.. So i still have more i don't know than i know. Only have hunges and guesses. And i guess long high light periodes needs sufficient suitable plantmass.. Most suitable plantmass are the true aquatics, which we mainly encounter submersed in nature under simular conditions.. The difficult game changer is the tidy manicured bog plants submersed under these conditions. I have no idea to little experience and even more wilder guesses when it comes to making this work.

I'll try some in the garden next year and find something out. I expect a failure..


----------



## tam (15 Dec 2017)

We run a uv filter on our pond in the summer, once switched on you can see it slowly clear from greenish to you can see to the bottom 4' down. I imagine part of the difference is the plant mass. We just have lilies in the main section and they only cover 30% ish. I'm very tempted to try a tank outside too - bit chilly at the moment.

I run my tank lights for 11 hours, ramping up and down, in a low tech with floaters. I also crack the curtains next to it a bit earlier so it gets some indirect light. I love watching the Oto's dancing around first thing.


----------



## domsfishadventure (15 Dec 2017)

hi tam, based on you're experience I should be ok. Only way to know is to try it.

Going to make some changes this weekend. Pull out the Juwel internal filter as the JBL 1901 and two Koralia 1600 should still be enough flow. 1900+3200=5100lph which is 14.5


extend spraybar across the back of the tank and block some holes if needed to maintain velocity (any ideas how to do this?). Its currently using 3 sections and still flows pretty fast.

not sure if I should leave it a bit before changing the light period too.


----------



## zozo (15 Dec 2017)

tam said:


> I'm very tempted to try a tank outside too - bit chilly at the moment.


It is, mine is in the cellar now over wintering. The Lobelia that was in it growing emersed in it has growen a large clumb of submersed growith under the potamogeton.. That portion at least the most of it i would like to keep bellow the surface next year. This year i started that garden tank up in april. But that is way to soon to expect plant growth some subtropicals will just melt away at those low temps. It grew only algae, but going so early gives a head start in slowly maturing the substrate etc. The algae growth established the tank and than it could slowly go up from there when the weather improves. When the plants kick in algae disappear on their own with little help. I guess the summers time span is to short to start in may from scratch and let it establish that late in the spring. This year the month may was very warm with loads of clear sunny days. Next year i need to put the tank outdoors much later, it's already established and grwon in. It is now in the cellar growing a tropical nymphoides, that will die at 10°C. I want it to flower to find out which one it is. I don't know that yet.

I never used UV light and never had green water.. That's indeed plantmass, but it doesn't necessarily need to be submersed plantmass. Marginal with the roots in the water is also enough. You need to deplete the water column from the nutrients the algae thrive on. Take early starting growing/flowering indigenious plants spp. for that. E.g. Iris, bog forgetmenot, grasses like Eriophorum. Plants that start to late in need of higher temps don't compete with early algae that thrives in colder temps.  Than the water wont go green from the start.


----------



## tam (15 Dec 2017)

We do have a fair amount of bog plants, marsh marigold, iris, I think there is forget-met-not in there, primulas, some of it gets started later than others though. 

I've some hair grass (parvula)  in a tray in the green house, that's been growing out all summer. I'm presuming it will survive the cold temperatures as it's a native too I think. I'm looking forward to spring now - thought I'd run out of space for tanks.


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Dec 2017)

Danny said:


> @ceg4048
> 
> I would be very interested on your opinion of the ADA Aquasky lights if you have looked into them?


Hi Danny,
             Unfortunately we do not have enough data to determine performance. There does not appear to be any dimming ability and if so you are stuck with the lighting level produced by the unit. There is no direct relationship between LUX and PAR because each of these units of measure are dependent on the relative energies present in the spectral response curves. Each response curve is different. Plants have a different response curve than the human visual cortex. So we cannot easily convey the information in LUX to resolve the information in PAR.

ADA have a tradition of designing their lighting mechanisms to appeal to the human visual  response (LUX) so that typically, the PAR output is very low compared to similarly spec'ed units of other brands. The result is that the plants receive less PAR but that the human looking at the tank interprets the light as being very bright.
This is the mechanism of the parameter known as Lumens.

Without a PAR meter therefore, it cannot be determined whether the unit actually has a high PAR output. All the marketing data seem to indicate that the spectral content includes a lot of green, which is exactly what we would expect for a Lumen based component. The human visual cortex has a high response to green and a poor response to blue and red, so in effect, the green content "amplifies" the apparent brightness of the lamp. So this can all be an illusion, which is typical of The Matrix.

If this lamp's PAR output is actually low, then this would be the best feature of the lamp, as it satisfies the plants needs, reduces the chance of algae and satisfies the brightness junkie's needs. This is all goodness, but I do wish that it would be marketed with these truths. Instead, they extol the virtues of "brightness" thereby programing hobbyists to think in this manner, which is all badness.

Other than this important point, the unit appears to be well built and is stylish. I don't know if there is any protection of the LEDs from splashing water or humidity, but perhaps it sits well enough above the tank to avoid this issue. There are no cooling fans, so probably expect the metal housing to get hot. If they have done their homework, which I assume they did, then the angle of light output will mostly stay in the tank and will not have too much spillage out into the room.

Cheers,


----------



## domsfishadventure (19 Dec 2017)

Hi,

as an update I have switched light period to 7-11 with the Juwel Helialux running about 20% white only until 2, at which it ramps up and runs full power for 5 hours, then turns down to 20% white and 50% blue.

i'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly. Just trying to set the co2 right now so I don't gas the fish by the evening.


----------

