# Opinions on 240L aquariums. Fluval Roma vs Eheim Vivaline vs Juwel Rio



## jkh13 (4 May 2021)

Hi all, not 100% planted tank relevant but thought I would ask anyways...

I am currently in the market for a ~240L aquarium to house my fancy goldfish and weather loach, upgrading from a 140L tank.

I am looking primarily at 3 options, the Fluval Roma, Juwel Rio and Eheim Vivaline. All three are around the same price where I live and come complete with the cabinets/filter/lighting etc. Has anyone got any experience with the above aquarium kits? I was initially leaning towards the Roma 240 but saw some people mention issues with the bottom drillout holes for the canister filter. I am wondering if the above tanks have good cutouts for running additional piping and or wires for things like airstones and additional filtration. How is the Eheim Vivaline for build quality and lighting? Are there also any alternative brands/kits I should be looking at that are similar in size and price?


----------



## Courtneybst (5 May 2021)

Hey! I can give a little insight...I've owned the Roma before and I currently have a Rio. Can't speak for the Eheim.

In terms of cabinets, I think the build quality on the Rio is super solid and better than the Roma. In fact, the overall build quality of the Rio setup is just better.

Both have cutouts for equipment but the Roma's weren't enough. If I remember correctly there was only one cutout so another had to be made whereas the Rio comes with two.

I can't say much about lighting because both of mine were fluorescent bulbs and I believe both tanks now come with LED lights.

Whilst I enjoyed them, I don't think I'll ever buy a covered tank again. Amongst many other things my main gripe is lack of flexibility in equipment placing.


----------



## The grumpy one (5 May 2021)

I like the Aquaone oak style. 








						OakStyle
					





					www.aquaone.co.uk
				



It is slightly taller and slightly smaller width. Beyond that they are all about the same.

I suppose one you sort out the issues with the roma drilled out holes, they are all much the same and the choice becomes down to the slightly different dimensions and the space you have for the tank.


----------



## John q (5 May 2021)

From a fish keeping bias the Roma is a cracking tank, if your needs are more weighted towards aquascaping then it's probably not the best choice.

The cabinet build quality seems pretty good to me and is solid, although I haven't seen the others to make a direct comparison.
The new roma tank includes 2 access cutouts, 1 back right and 1 back left, each cutout will comfortably house 3 wires/air lines.

Fluval 307 filter flow is a tad on the weak side for any serious plant mass in a tank this size, i switched to the 407, otherwise I like the 07 filters, almost silent and really easy to maintain.

The light, mmm; how do I sum it up... its very easy to control via an app on your phone and is capable of growing non exotic or light demanding plants.

Now for the bogey man ~ The through tank fittings only become an issue if you either plan a full on aquascape, or want to switch canister filters to anything other than the fluval 07 series once the tanks set up  (this can be done but requires 70% of the water to be dropped.)

Hope some of that helps.


----------



## jkh13 (5 May 2021)

Thanks for the replies people. I am keeping goldfish in the tank with some anubias so high lights are not a real concern. I suspect none of the tanks have enough filtration included and I plan to supplement the bundled filter with another canister which is why I am interested in whether the tanks have good cutouts for additional piping.


John q said:


> The cabinet build quality seems pretty good to me and is solid, although I haven't seen the others to make a direct comparison.
> The new roma tank includes 2 access cutouts, 1 back right and 1 back left, each cutout will comfortably house 3 wires/air lines.


Do you think the included cutouts could house 16/22 piping without modifications?

Also does anyone have opinions on the Fluval 307 (included with Roma) vs the Eheim Ecco Pro 300 (included with the Vivaline)?


----------



## mort (5 May 2021)

Juwel are solid, no thrills but reliable. We used to joke with the rep that the only thing that had changed in the last 30 years was that they brought out a white cabinet. I know of plenty that has been wet for over two decades and they just keep going. The heater used to be cheap but I guess you get the same with every package tank, not that goldfish need it. I run the biggest Rio with an external filter on the other end to the internal and I've not needed to do any modifications. I'm fairly sure that's the same for the smaller sizes as well but the lids are easy to knick a bit out of if you needed.
A few people had problems with fluval tanks that I had to deal with but they are pretty decent as well. 
The eheim I've not seen, the old ones were very good but also much pricier than this range.


----------



## John q (5 May 2021)

jkh13 said:


> Do you think the included cutouts could house 16/22 piping without modifications?



The semicircular cutouts are 32mm wide but only 12mm deep, so would struggle with those dia pipes. 
The lid is made of 3mm plastic, notching out a 50x50mm corner would be fairly easy though.


----------



## RuthL (11 Jun 2021)

Hello. New here and have the same question on recommendations for a 240-300 litre tank. I love the AquaSys but I need one with a lid as I have a cat! Currently have a Juwel 125 but not keen on another Juwel as a) I don’t like the look of them with the tank bigger than the cabinet and b) I don’t think the internal filter is necessary on a tank this size, it takes up room in the tank and develops algae around the silicone.

The Fluval doesn’t sound great if you need to upgrade equipment. I don’t really understand about water changes, are these a problem only with the Fluval? 

Other options? Is the Eheim Vivane the only other choice? I will not have live plants or be aqua scaping but would like the option to in due course!


----------



## RuthL (11 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> Hello. New here and have the same question on recommendations for a 240-300 litre tank. I love the AquaSys but I need one with a lid as I have a cat! Currently have a Juwel 125 but not keen on another Juwel as a) I don’t like the look of them with the tank bigger than the cabinet and b) I don’t think the internal filter is necessary on a tank this size, it takes up room in the tank and develops algae around the silicone.
> 
> The Fluval doesn’t sound great if you need to upgrade equipment. I don’t really understand about water changes, are these a problem only with the Fluval?
> 
> Other options? Is the Eheim Vivane the only other choice? I will not have live plants or be aqua scaping but would like the option to in due course!


P.S. what does the “integrated filter” on the Eheim mean? Are they referring to the external filter?


----------



## arcturus (11 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> P.S. what does the “integrated filter” on the Eheim mean? Are they referring to the external filter?


Afaik, there is no reference to an "integrated" filter on the Eheim product page. The Vivaline 240 features an EHEIM "ecco pro 300" external canister filter. The smaller Vivaline models have an internal EHEIM biopower filter. The ecco pro filter is ok for a nano tank. The internal "biopower" filter makes no sense since it is huge and has a very low filtration rate. However, the ecco pro is inadequate for any of the Vivaline aquariums, especially the 240, since it fails to meet the most basic water circulation requirements. Also note that the LED light on the Vivaline 240 liter is rated at ~1700 lumen (7 lm/liter) and this is a 50 cm high aquarium. It consists of a single row of LEDs that are quite directional and only illuminate a part of bottom of the aquarium. So, at the very least, you will need to upgrade to a proper filtering and water circulation solution. You should also consider replacing the lights or adding a few more lights to the system. In short, these "packaged" systems from Eheim, Fluval, Juwel, etc. are basically the tank and the cabinet because you will need to buy the technical equipment to have a proper low-tech setup...



RuthL said:


> Hello. New here and have the same question on recommendations for a 240-300 litre tank. I love the AquaSys but I need one with a lid as I have a cat! Currently have a Juwel 125 but not keen on another Juwel as a) I don’t like the look of them with the tank bigger than the cabinet and b) I don’t think the internal filter is necessary on a tank this size, it takes up room in the tank and develops algae around the silicone.


Specialists stores sell aquarium covers. If you are considering a white or black AquaSys you can easily get a matching cover. Maybe even can sell you a cover. Contact them. 


RuthL said:


> The Fluval doesn’t sound great if you need to upgrade equipment. I don’t really understand about water changes, are these a problem only with the Fluval?
> 
> Other options? Is the Eheim Vivane the only other choice? I will not have live plants or be aqua scaping but would like the option to in due course!


Have you considered buying just the tank + cabinet from a specialist store without any equipment and then buying the equipment separately? These packages are not a good value for money since the equipment they feature greatly increases of having problems, especially due to inadequate water filtration.


----------



## ForestDave (11 Jun 2021)

Hi. 
I have an old Roma 200. It’s ok but the ends of the fluorescent tubes are too far from the edge of the tank which creates dark areas either side.    I made my cutouts bigger without too much stress and tidied up with black silicone. The bar in the middle is a pain but necessary as it bows about 5-7mm. I bought an Iquatics 4 tube light which is great but means access is a faff as I need to move the whole lid. The fish don’t care though and I like the square design rather than the tank jutting out either side of the cabinet but that’s just my taste.


----------



## jamila169 (11 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> Have you considered buying just the tank + cabinet from a specialist store without any equipment and then buying the equipment separately? These packages are not a good value for money since the equipment they feature greatly increases of having problems, especially due to inadequate water filtration.


I concur -even on E's very basic Ciano aqua 60 we've had to add extra lighting (only a cheap nicrew submersible stuck to the lid, but still)  and I've just changed to a Biopower160 from the supplied one that had a supposed flow rate of 350 lph (probably what the motor can throw out completely unburdened)  and the difference is night and day. If I knew then what I know now , I'd have bought a naked tank and then the filter and lights separately -it would probably have been cheaper . IMHO the complete tank set ups are for people who want to throw gravel and plastic plants in with a few 'easy' fish and be done with it. I wish someone would do 'pick and mix' packages specifically for different purposes with what they consider to be the best beginner kit for that use case, they'd have more longevity.


----------



## RuthL (12 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> Afaik, there is no reference to an "integrated" filter on the Eheim product page. The Vivaline 240 features an EHEIM "ecco pro 300" external canister filter. The smaller Vivaline models have an internal EHEIM biopower filter. The ecco pro filter is ok for a nano tank. The internal "biopower" filter makes no sense since it is huge and has a very low filtration rate. However, the ecco pro is inadequate for any of the Vivaline aquariums, especially the 240, since it fails to meet the most basic water circulation requirements. Also note that the LED light on the Vivaline 240 liter is rated at ~1700 lumen (7 lm/liter) and this is a 50 cm high aquarium. It consists of a single row of LEDs that are quite directional and only illuminate a part of bottom of the aquarium. So, at the very least, you will need to upgrade to a proper filtering and water circulation solution. You should also consider replacing the lights or adding a few more lights to the system. In short, these "packaged" systems from Eheim, Fluval, Juwel, etc. are basically the tank and the cabinet because you will need to buy the technical equipment to have a proper low-tech setup...
> 
> 
> Specialists stores sell aquarium covers. If you are considering a white or black AquaSys you can easily get a matching cover. Maybe even can sell you a cover. Contact them.
> ...


Thanks for your reply, really appreciate the help!

If I go for the Eheim, what filter and lights would you recommend? Or alternatively can you suggest a separate tank, cabinet, equipment etc? I’ve been looking for months and can’t find anything I like and that will fit into the space I have available. I can provide dimensions for the space if that would help.

I did already contact AquaOne about a lid for the AquaSys, they said they could provide a glass cover from one of their reef tanks. Not ideal with the cat. I also contacted a few fish shops, only one got back to me. He said he could make a matching lid, but couldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t look like a near miss to the black tank. He said the only way to ensure it properly matched was to provide a sample of the tank material, and even then it wouldn’t make sense financially in terms of manufacturing and postage costs.

Any help gratefully received, desperate to get my fish out of their 125l as soon as possible. It’s too small for them and gets dirty within days!


----------



## RuthL (12 Jun 2021)

ForestDave said:


> Hi.
> I have an old Roma 200. It’s ok but the ends of the fluorescent tubes are too far from the edge of the tank which creates dark areas either side.    I made my cutouts bigger without too much stress and tidied up with black silicone. The bar in the middle is a pain but necessary as it bows about 5-7mm. I bought an Iquatics 4 tube light which is great but means access is a faff as I need to move the whole lid. The fish don’t care though and I like the square design rather than the tank jutting out either side of the cabinet but that’s just my taste.





ForestDave said:


> I have an old Roma 200. It’s ok but the ends of the fluorescent tubes are too far from the edge of the tank which creates dark areas either side.    I made my cutouts bigger without too much stress and tidied up with black silicone. The bar in the middle is a pain but necessary as it bows about 5-7mm. I bought an Iquatics 4 tube light which is great but means access is a faff as I need to move the whole lid. The fish don’t care though and I like the square design rather than the tank jutting out either side of the cabinet but that’s just my taste.


I also don’t like the tank jutting out! I like the look of the AquaSys, Vivaline and Roma but none of these seem suitable for different reasons. I am not very technical or practical and would like to buy something that works without me having to make adjustments to it.


----------



## arcturus (13 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> Hello. New here and have the same question on recommendations for a 240-300 litre tank. I love the AquaSys but I need one with a lid as I have a cat! Currently have a Juwel 125 but not keen on another Juwel as a) I don’t like the look of them with the tank bigger than the cabinet and b) I don’t think the internal filter is necessary on a tank this size, it takes up room in the tank and develops algae around the silicone.
> 
> The Fluval doesn’t sound great if you need to upgrade equipment. I don’t really understand about water changes, are these a problem only with the Fluval?
> 
> Other options? Is the Eheim Vivane the only other choice? I will not have live plants or be aqua scaping but would like the option to in due course!





RuthL said:


> Thanks for your reply, really appreciate the help!
> 
> If I go for the Eheim, what filter and lights would you recommend? Or alternatively can you suggest a separate tank, cabinet, equipment etc? I’ve been looking for months and can’t find anything I like and that will fit into the space I have available. I can provide dimensions for the space if that would help.


Have a look at the Oase Highline 200 and 300. They have a lid and matching cabinet and might be in the same price range as the AquaSys. You will have to buy all technical equipment separately. Note that these Oase models are 50cm deep while the Juwel Rio 240 and Eheim Vivaline 240 are 40 cm. A specialist shop can build you an aquarium and cabinet according to your dimensions, but unfortunately I cannot make recommendations of a good shop for you since I am not based in the UK.

Regarding the equipment. As a rule of thumb, you should aim at filters that (claim that) can circulate 10x the total water volume of the aquarium per hour. For a 240 liter aquarium, which will have a water volume of ~200 liter, depending on the hardscape, you should aim at ~2000 l/h. To get close to this number you will need something like the Eheim professionel 3 1200XL (1700 l/h), professionel 3e 700 (1850 l/h) or Oase 850 (1500 l/h). As an alternative, you may consider two filters instead of one, such as 2 x Oase 350 or 2x Oase 600 or 2x Eheim professionel 4 600. If you are planning to have a moderately planted setup and a low biological load, one large filter might be enough, but the more circulation you have the better. If you go for the Eheim 240, you can use the small ecco pro filter that is part of the package plus a large filter.

The lights mainly depend on the amount of plants you are planning to have and if you are going to have CO2 injection or not. If you go for the Eheim aquarium, and to keep it simple, just add one Eheim PowerLed to the LED strip that comes with the tank. You can add a third LED strip later if needed. But there are dozens of alternatives on the market. 



RuthL said:


> I did already contact AquaOne about a lid for the AquaSys, they said they could provide a glass cover from one of their reef tanks. Not ideal with the cat. I also contacted a few fish shops, only one got back to me. He said he could make a matching lid, but couldn’t guarantee it wouldn’t look like a near miss to the black tank. He said the only way to ensure it properly matched was to provide a sample of the tank material, and even then it wouldn’t make sense financially in terms of manufacturing and postage costs.


In Germany you can have a custom quality lid for 120x50 tank made for ~200 EUR. You can also consider ordering a cover made of acrylic or plexiglas with some basic reinforcements that will make it cat safe and looks good on a pool aquarium. But this will end up being more expensive. Good luck with your search!


----------



## RuthL (13 Jun 2021)

Does anyone have any suggestions for a tank only?


----------



## RuthL (13 Jun 2021)

The Oase Highline are over £1k for 200 litres! Looking for 250-300.


----------



## RuthL (13 Jun 2021)

What about the Eheim Proxima 250? I think this comes only with lights?


----------



## arcturus (14 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> What about the Eheim Proxima 250? I think this comes only with lights?


The Proxima is basically the modernized edition of the Vivaline. It has 50cm depth instead of the 40cm of the Vivaline, a "better" cabinet and thicker glass (at least in the larger models). It comes with lights only and features 2 x classicLED. The Vivaline has just one light strip (btw, each of these strips is 50-60 EUR). Later, you might need to add one Eheim powerLED or a LED strip from another brand. The Eheim powerLED  are quite good and they can be installed on Eheim aquariums without special adapters. Anyway, the Oase and Eheim Proxima tanks sell for around the same price around here


----------



## RuthL (17 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> Have a look at the Oase Highline 200 and 300. They have a lid and matching cabinet and might be in the same price range as the AquaSys. You will have to buy all technical equipment separately. Note that these Oase models are 50cm deep while the Juwel Rio 240 and Eheim Vivaline 240 are 40 cm. A specialist shop can build you an aquarium and cabinet according to your dimensions, but unfortunately I cannot make recommendations of a good shop for you since I am not based in the UK.
> 
> Regarding the equipment. As a rule of thumb, you should aim at filters that (claim that) can circulate 10x the total water volume of the aquarium per hour. For a 240 liter aquarium, which will have a water volume of ~200 liter, depending on the hardscape, you should aim at ~2000 l/h. To get close to this number you will need something like the Eheim professionel 3 1200XL (1700 l/h), professionel 3e 700 (1850 l/h) or Oase 850 (1500 l/h). As an alternative, you may consider two filters instead of one, such as 2 x Oase 350 or 2x Oase 600 or 2x Eheim professionel 4 600. If you are planning to have a moderately planted setup and a low biological load, one large filter might be enough, but the more circulation you have the better. If you go for the Eheim 240, you can use the small ecco pro filter that is part of the package plus a large filter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all your help 😊

I just looked at the Oase Highline, it’s nearly £1.5k for the tank alone! Way over my budget.

I might just go for the Vivaline! Do you think this is a sensible option? For the foreseeable future it will only have gravel and 2 goldfish. I would like to aquascape as some point but I have been told there is no point now as the goldfish will dig up the plants and honestly, just finding and trying to understand how a larger tank + external filter will work is hurting my head! 😂. Do you think the Ecco pro filter will be okay for my purposes for the time being? I’m not really sure I have any other options without spending a fortune. I also wanted to ask, can I put the filter anywhere in the cabinet? And how often do you think I will need to clean/access it? Because we have bikes in front of the space at the moment. Ideally it would go on the far left so I could just angle one of the bikes out.

How would I add an LED strip to a tank, if needed?


----------



## jamila169 (17 Jun 2021)

is that the only place it could go? It might be just me, but having tanks in a high traffic area is a great help in spotting issues quickly and also for ad hoc maintenance. My first tank 40 years ago was just goldfish, gravel UG filter and elodea, I had it in the lounge where anyone glancing in the general direction could see any problems starting (and get me to sort it, but that was part of the deal for 12 year old me) .
If you're planning to go planted you'll need to heat it which might give you issues in an uninsulated room like that as well as well as having to fight bikes and a gas meter to maintain it (it doesn't look like you could easily stand in front of it/lean over it without risking being bonked in the head, and you'll be doing a lot of that). If I were you, I'd find a more ideal place for it , start smaller and work up to the large tank/external filter stuff, it's a whole different ball game to cold water, things get out of hand relatively quickly(quicker than a cold water tank IME) and it needs to be in a place where you're motivated to do the tweaks, sometimes daily, that it needs.
Most of my maintenance is _wanders past on way to kettle_ 'hi fish! Oh, that needs trimming/whats that?/oh bugger, hair algae' _spends 10 minutes sorting it out, forgets what I was originally doing_ If you can't do that easily it can become a chore and get put off 'until I've got time' and those odd 10 minutes can end up being a whole day of slog , or multiple days of micromanagement that you didn't need to do (being ill a couple of weeks after setting up a new tank can have the same effect)
I'm not trying to put you off here, just saying that starting with a nail in your boot will make it a lot harder


----------



## arcturus (17 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> Thanks for all your help 😊
> 
> I just looked at the Oase Highline, it’s nearly £1.5k for the tank alone! Way over my budget.
> 
> I might just go for the Vivaline! Do you think this is a sensible option?


The Vivaline 240 and equivalent Juwel or Fluval are good options. Note that the cover/lid on these tanks cannot be removed as it is needed to keep structural integrity. Apart from that, any of these models should last many years.



RuthL said:


> For the foreseeable future it will only have gravel and 2 goldfish. I would like to aquascape as some point but I have been told there is no point now as the goldfish will dig up the plants and honestly, just finding and trying to understand how a larger tank + external filter will work is hurting my head! 😂. Do you think the Ecco pro filter will be okay for my purposes for the time being? I’m not really sure I have any other options without spending a fortune.


Adequate filtering and water circulation are critical to the balance of the aquarium. If you plan to have a densely planted tank, then you can delegate part of the filtering to the plants provided you have enough circulation. Otherwise, the filter will be one of the most important parts in the system. So, you can keep the Ecco Pro filter but I would strongly suggest that you add another external filter or at the very least a circulation pump (there are threads on this forum about such pumps; as an example, have a look at this, this, or this). The circulation pump is to be installed inside the aquarium and helps increasing the flow, which will be insufficient if you only use the Ecco Pro. If you can afford it, go for a second filter such as an EHEIM professionel 4+ 350 or Oase BioMaster 600. The advantage of the Oase is that it is easier to clean.



RuthL said:


> I also wanted to ask, can I put the filter anywhere in the cabinet?


The ecco pro is a cylinder 20cm in diameter x 40cm height; the other filters I listed above have a square base with a side of ~25cm and are ~45cm tall. If you install two large external filters and one CO2 system you will still have ~1/3 of the cabinet empty - look at this example of a 120cm cabinet. As you see in this example, the filters are often placed on the left or right side of the cabinet to simplify the pipe routing.



RuthL said:


> And how often do you think I will need to clean/access it? Because we have bikes in front of the space at the moment. Ideally it would go on the far left so I could just angle one of the bikes out.


You will need to access the cabinet _at least _on a weekly basis because of water changes. The pre-filter (which is a part of the filter) will likely need to be cleaned every 1-2 weeks, depending on your aquarium. The filter itself should only need a clean every few months. And I wonder how you plan to actually to enjoy your new aquarium with all that stuff in front of it... can't you find a nicer place for your new aquarium?



RuthL said:


> How would I add an LED strip to a tank, if needed?


Easily. If you go for the Eheim Vivaline then you can buy an Eheim ClassicLED or PowerLED light bar and install it directly on the cover's frame without the need of adapters. There are many other alternatives on the market but you might need to get a suitable mounting bracket. The PowerLED are good lights in case you decide to upgrade. In any case, you will need to buy an electronic timer for the lights. It can be a simple electrical plug with timer - but this does not allow you to control the light intensity. Eheim has a dimmer for the ClassicLED that you can consider.


----------



## RuthL (17 Jun 2021)

jamila169 said:


> is that the only place it could go? It might be just me, but having tanks in a high traffic area is a great help in spotting issues quickly and also for ad hoc maintenance. My first tank 40 years ago was just goldfish, gravel UG filter and elodea, I had it in the lounge where anyone glancing in the general direction could see any problems starting (and get me to sort it, but that was part of the deal for 12 year old me) .
> If you're planning to go planted you'll need to heat it which might give you issues in an uninsulated room like that as well as well as having to fight bikes and a gas meter to maintain it (it doesn't look like you could easily stand in front of it/lean over it without risking being bonked in the head, and you'll be doing a lot of that). If I were you, I'd find a more ideal place for it , start smaller and work up to the large tank/external filter stuff, it's a whole different ball game to cold water, things get out of hand relatively quickly(quicker than a cold water tank IME) and it needs to be in a place where you're motivated to do the tweaks, sometimes daily, that it needs.
> Most of my maintenance is _wanders past on way to kettle_ 'hi fish! Oh, that needs trimming/whats that?/oh bugger, hair algae' _spends 10 minutes sorting it out, forgets what I was originally doing_ If you can't do that easily it can become a chore and get put off 'until I've got time' and those odd 10 minutes can end up being a whole day of slog , or multiple days of micromanagement that you didn't need to do (being ill a couple of weeks after setting up a new tank can have the same effect)
> I'm not trying to put you off here, just saying that starting with a nail in your boot will make it a lot harder


We are in a townhouse and it is pretty much the only place it can go! Ground floor is kitchen/diner (no room) + the garage, where it is now. We had plans to renovate it into a utility/snug but ran out of money! I am in there all the time though as that’s where our second fridge/freezer + washing machine etc are. I do water change, gravel vac, full clean etc  weekly, plus rinse sponges/clean glass etc in between that. 2nd floor is master bed (no room), large lounge + small shower room. It could potentially go in the lounge but 2nd + 3rd floors have light brown carpet, and I’m not sure about negotiating buckets of water in the shower room sink. Plus it’s soft water in there. 3rd floor is 3 bedrooms (no room) + dressing room which will eventually be a bathroom … but again with soft water. I don’t want to be carrying buckets up + down the stairs or spilling gunk on the carpet. And I don’t think it would look right in the lounge really.

So … it pretty much has to go in the garage (?). I will have to move the first bike out slightly to access the filter, I think. But will the gas meter be a problem with the Vivaline? I wasn’t expecting it to be that much taller than my current set-up? I can access it currently okay, using a large gravel vac and long-handled cleaner normally, but I can also physically reach down into the bottom of the tank. I’m getting concerned now about spending so much money on a new tank which will potentially be cumbersome! Not sure what else to do. Originally my fishies were in a smaller tank, I upgraded to the Rio 125 only last summer and became more interested in maintaining an aquarium. It was fine for 4 months or so but then started becoming difficult to maintain, with white dust & algae developing after only a few days. I just thought they needed a bigger tank, but it’s becoming difficult now to know what to do! I think I will definitely stick with cold water for the foreseeable future though.


----------



## RuthL (17 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> The Vivaline 240 and equivalent Juwel or Fluval are good options. Note that the cover/lid on these tanks cannot be removed as it is needed to keep structural integrity. Apart from that, any of these models should last many years.
> 
> 
> Adequate filtering and water circulation are critical to the balance of the aquarium. If you plan to have a densely planted tank, then you can delegate part of the filtering to the plants provided you have enough circulation. Otherwise, the filter will be one of the most important parts in the system. So, you can keep the Ecco Pro filter but I would strongly suggest that you add another external filter or at the very least a circulation pump (there are threads on this forum about such pumps; as an example, have a look at this, this, or this). The circulation pump is to be installed inside the aquarium and helps increasing the flow, which will be insufficient if you only use the Ecco Pro. If you can afford it, go for a second filter such as an EHEIM professionel 4+ 350 or Oase BioMaster 600. The advantage of the Oase is that it is easier to clean.
> ...


Thank you. What do you mean about not being able to remove lid? How do I clean glass + substrate?

Why do I need to access the cabinet for water changes? Feeling like this is all getting very technical now 😩 … how do I route a pipe? Is that the pipes from the external filter that go in and out of the tank?

I’ve just seen a Vivaline on eBay but without the filter. £250. I could buy that and then choose my own filter (or one you recommend! 😂)


----------



## arcturus (17 Jun 2021)

RuthL said:


> Thank you. What do you mean about not being able to remove lid? How do I clean glass + substrate?



An aquarium lid/cover is usually separate from the tank. It just sits on top of the tank. So, you can replace it if needed or remove it during deeper cleaning.




However, in aquariums such as the Vivaline and Rio the frame of the cover is glued to the glass and cannot be removed. Of course, the cover can be opened 



RuthL said:


> Why do I need to access the cabinet for water changes?


To shut down the filter and other equipment such as heaters. And you will likely keep some of the regular maintenance materials stored in the cabinet. Fertilizers, which are used on a daily or at least weekly basis, will also be in the cabinet…



RuthL said:


> Feeling like this is all getting very technical now 😩 … how do I route a pipe? Is that the pipes from the external filter that go in and out of the tank?


Yep.  There are two pipes per filter, one is siphoning the water out of the aquarium, and the other is pushing the water back into the tank. You do not want kinks or bends in these pipes and want them out of the way so that they are not accidentally disconnected. As such, the filter should be located in such a way that no complicated pipe routing is required.


RuthL said:


> I’ve just seen a Vivaline on eBay but without the filter. £250. I could buy that and then choose my own filter (or one you recommend! 😂)


It could be a good deal. But for that price, you should be able to return it in case the aquarium is leaking or has scratches in the glass. A new Vivaline 24 with cabinet, delivery and 3y warranty costs ~375 GBP around here…


----------



## jamila169 (17 Jun 2021)

@RuthL it might be that it is a bit small -but goldfish are filthy beggars anyway, I used to change 50% of my water weekly and spend ages with the gravel vac to pull all the crud out.
The thing about big tanks is that bucketing water changes is something everyone tries to avoid if it's more than one 15l bucket - you could feasibly siphon out with a hose either through a window to a ground floor drain or the kitchen sink and get a barrel and a submersible pump to lift the new water to the tank, a 6m head pump is less than £70 , we had one of these for pond water changes years ago, Clarke Hippo 2 1" 250W 85Lpm  6m Head Submersible Water Pump (230V) - Machine Mart - Machine Mart fill up one of these Plastic Barrel Butt 120 Litre Clamp Ring Water Storage Container Drum FASTPOST  | eBay with water and treat it and a pump will make short work of getting it to wherever you want it . Modern external filters have shut offs that lessen the risk of accidental floods, and you can stick it in a suitable receptacle before opening it to contain any drips


----------



## arcturus (18 Jun 2021)

Just to add to @jamila169 excellent suggestion that if the aquarium is on the same floor as the water outlet you can also put a bucket or container under a tap on a bathtub, shower or kitchen sink, adjust the water temperature, leave the tap running, and then use a small pump (such as Eheim Universal, Oase OptiMax, SunSun CTP) to pump the water out from the container into the aquarium. Smaller aquarium pumps only cope with a head height of ~1 meter or less. So, you will need a stronger pump if the head height is greater. For that purpose, a submersible pump like the one @jamila169 suggested, is often the simplest solution. Just make sure it has a outflow regulator valve because you want to fill the aquarium rather slowly. Do not forget to add water dechlorinator/conditioner during the process. You can do a water change easily using such a method - you really do not want use a bucket to change +100 liters of water every week  

George Farmer has several videos showing this water change process (look at the 3min mark)


----------



## jkh13 (21 Jun 2021)

Update on this - I bought the Eheim vivaline 240.

It's been a great tank so far, I really like the cover as it opens up fully allowing easy access to the water. I am running two externals with it, one no brand 1200lph and the ECCO Eheim which came with it. Cabinet is wide open at the back so was easy to route piping. One thing it doesn't have is shelves inside the cabinet so requires some drilling if you want to hang plug extensions inside the cabinet. 

Overall seems high quality, one bad thing though is the instructions are terrible for building the cabinet, made of cheap paper with crappy diagrams and printing.


----------



## Ajm200 (17 Jan 2022)

I had one of the older Roma tanks for a while.  Wasn’t impressed.  Hard to fit external filters, lighting was tubes and low light.


----------



## RuthL (30 Jan 2022)

Hello again everyone. I have finally decided to go for the Roma 240. We are going to move some items around and relocate the new tank    It seems to have what I need, for the moment, so easier (and cheaper) than buying the Vivaline and all the additional extras.

I will buy too the pump and container suggested for water changes. But how do I clean the gravel? Do I continue to do this as usual with a gravel vac and bucket, then clean the filter, and then change the water afterwards with the pump? Sorry if a dumb question.


----------



## RuthL (30 Jan 2022)

Hello again everyone. I have finally decided to go for the Roma 240. We are going to move some items around and relocate the new tank    It seems to have what I need, for the moment, so easier (and cheaper) than buying the Vivaline and all the additional extras.

I will buy too the pump and container suggested for water changes. But how do I clean the gravel? Do I continue to do this as usual with a gravel vac and bucket, then clean the filter, and then change the water afterwards with the pump? Sorry if a dumb question.


----------



## RuthL (30 Jan 2022)

Also what about aeration? I currently have a internal filter with spray bar attached, should I just move that to the new tank? Do I need anything else?


----------



## RuthL (30 Jan 2022)

Also (!) - easiest and quickest way to do a fishless cycle? Planning on getting new tank next week! Old tank is Juwel Rio which uses sponges in an internal filter.


----------



## arcturus (30 Jan 2022)

RuthL said:


> I will buy too the pump and container suggested for water changes. But how do I clean the gravel? Do I continue to do this as usual with a gravel vac and bucket, then clean the filter, and then change the water afterwards with the pump? Sorry if a dumb question.


The gravel vac is one way but its use is quite limited in an heavily planted tank. The syphon + turkey baster is an <alternative>, especially if you have carpet plants. With this you will remove just a very small amount of water. Collect this water in a (clear or white) bucket to check if you have syphoned out some livestock in the process. Then you need another solution to remove the bulk of the water from the tank for the WC.  You should syphon the water directly from tank to the place where you are disposing it (garden, sink, ...)  You can use a regular filter intake connected to a pipe. Make sure that you use a (fine) mesh on the intake, especially if you have shrimp or small fish in the tank.


RuthL said:


> Also what about aeration? I currently have a internal filter with spray bar attached, should I just move that to the new tank? Do I need anything else?


The two filters you have should be able to generate sufficient flow for a low tech tank. Will you be using CO2? You just need to make sure that the filter outlets are agitating the water surface. You want small ripples across the surface of the whole tank.



RuthL said:


> Also (!) - easiest and quickest way to do a fishless cycle? Planning on getting new tank next week! Old tank is Juwel Rio which uses sponges in an internal filter.


If you want a stable tank in the longer term then "cycling" takes what it takes. I would suggest the following steps.

Step 1. <Dark start>: this requires ~4 weeks. Make sure you use some of the filter sponges from the older tank. What soil will you be using?
Step 2. Heavily plant the tank. Aim at covering at least half of the substrate with plants. Include <floating plants and fast growing stem plants>. Yes, adding a lot of plants is expensive. But it increases the stability of the tank and reduces the chance of algae.
Step 3. Wait until the plants to stabilize, adapt from emersed to submersed state and start to grow steadily. This will take several weeks. The more the better. I would wait until the plants were trimmed a couple of times. This is the period when you adjust lights, fertilizers, and CO2 in case you are using it. You will likely have to deal with some algae during this period  (if you do step 1 and 2, this can be minimized). It is much easier to make all these adjustments without any livestock in the tank.
Step 4. Start adding/moving livestock incrementally (and shrimp and snails, in case you are considering these as well).
These steps are certainly not the quickest. But they should help increasing the stability of a new tank. There are plenty of workarounds that would allow you to add livestock asap, but they can lead to avoidable issues. So, you can have take the quicker route or a more stable route. It all depends on your priorities 

Finally, I would suggest you create a journal for your tank. This would help collecting all the Q&A in one place.


----------

