# PH for Endlers



## AlexH (1 Dec 2016)

Hi guys

My tank naturally rest at around 6 - my aquasoil seems to buffer it to that.

Ive got some cherry shrimp and endlers. i acclimitised them before adding.

Are both species able to tolerate such a low PH...?

Ive read mixed reviews around the web.

Thanks
Alex


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## rebel (2 Dec 2016)

Yes. The pH range from Endlers is from 0-infinity.


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## AlexH (2 Dec 2016)

Thanks Rebel


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## rebel (2 Dec 2016)

Alex, is this a planted tank? Otherwise add some marble chips to the filter to raise kh and buffer the ph up. Even if it's planted, it's beneficial to keep kh around 4 for ph stability. This is more important of you want to inject co2. Otherwise won't matter too much if your tap water has kh of at least 4 an you do regular water changes.


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## AlexH (2 Dec 2016)

rebel said:


> Alex, is this a planted tank? Otherwise add some marble chips to the filter to raise kh and buffer the ph up. Even if it's planted, it's beneficial to keep kh around 4 for ph stability. This is more important of you want to inject co2. Otherwise won't matter too much if your tap water has kh of at least 4 an you do regular water changes.



Yes its a planted tank. im still building up the plants atm.

Im tempted to coral shell to my filter - what do you think? or should i place it directly in the tank at a discreet location?


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## three-fingers (3 Dec 2016)

I find like most fish endlers (or at least my hybrids) are flexible with regards to pH, and more tolerant of my soft water than weak fancy guppy strains found in stores.  More important than pH, what is your water hardness out of the tap?

I usually add crushed coral to my substrate when setting up a tank, I also have some random seashells hidden at the back behind plants.

Sandstone looks nice and natural in a freshwater tank and is good for raising hardness too.


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## AlexH (3 Dec 2016)

My tank water is naturally soft.

I use ADA AS.

Ive bought some crushed coral shell - im going to add it tomorrow. just currently unsure of where itll fit tbh!


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## three-fingers (3 Dec 2016)

With soft water plus ADA AS, you are going to have the exact opposite water from what endlers prefer. 

As mentioned, they are far more hardy and adaptable than fancy guppies, so if you have good genetics and your water isn't _too_ soft they will be fine. In the long term, do watch out for arched spines and short life spans.

If the crushed coral will fit in a media bag, it would be best in an external filter.  I would also look into adding some pieces of sandstone in the tank too, could maybe tie some plants to it.  Basically you want lots of minerals in the water for them (pH doesn't really matter), I have yet to look into the physiological specifics of exactly why certain fish species do so poorly in soft water, however my thinking from what I've read so far is they simply aren't adapted to water with a low concentration of minerals, so can lose important minerals from their bodies through diffusion, becoming deficient over time.

Adding a GH booster of some sort to the water you use for water changes would be good for raising the hardness too if you prefer this method to adding rocks/crushed coral to the tank, you can make your own from cheaply available powders such as potassium and magnesium sulfate, or buy a more expensive commercial available mix like Seachem Equilibrium. If your water is _very_ soft you may wan to look into this, otherwise just add some suitable rocks/crushed coral and don't worry .


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## AlexH (4 Dec 2016)

This is great advice, thank you.

Ive added a coarse foam pre filter over my glass intake to protect my cherry shrimp and baby fish from getting sucked in...

If i add a bag of coral to my filter... i have it setup as 3 types of foam in one tray, to three trays of biohome ultimate.... where should i put it? i dont want to stick it above the biohome as its small bits may clog the media.

I do have rock in the tank as part of my hardscape - but i may add some anubias glued or strung to sandstone...

What do yu think?

I thought fish preferred soft water to hard water?


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## sciencefiction (4 Dec 2016)

Many of the aquarium fish originate from South America and prefer soft water although a lot have adapted to being kept in harder water too. The other way round though doesn't work well so well. Endlers and cherry shrimp are one of those that should be kept in harder water. There are other species of shrimp that would like softer water so if this doesn't work out well enough, you have plenty of other options. I think that If you maintain enough GH and the water is buffered well enough,  they should be fine.


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## AlexH (4 Dec 2016)

Im going to add the coral today. im just conscious the bag has holes which are too large.

But i may just add it somewhere in the tank atm until i finish planting, then put it in the external filter.


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## AlexH (4 Dec 2016)

Wont the Ada as buffer down the effect of the coral shell?


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## three-fingers (4 Dec 2016)

AlexH said:


> This is great advice, thank you.
> I do have rock in the tank as part of my hardscape - but i may add some anubias glued or strung to sandstone...


No problem, I hope your endlers thrive . What type of rock? Most rock sold for freshwater aquariums is specifically selected to be inert so that they don't release minerals into the water which may ruin the water for soft water fish. This is why I am specifically suggesting sandstone as it is made mainly from the mineral calcium carbonate will buffer your pH by raising water hardness.



> I thought fish preferred soft water to hard water?


As above, unfortunately it is not as simple as this. Different species fish have different water chemistry requirements depending on where they evolved. Some fish only live in soft water, some fish only live in hard water and some fish are frequently found in both.



AlexH said:


> Im going to add the coral today. im just conscious the bag has holes which are too large.
> 
> But i may just add it somewhere in the tank atm until i finish planting, then put it in the external filter.


If you can grab a pair of tights or stocking from somewhere, these make good cheap filter bags. Doesn't really matter where you put it in the filter, it is going to act as both mechanical and biological media, but your course foam prefilter should stop the biggest particles.



AlexH said:


> Wont the Ada as buffer down the effect of the coral shell?


Very basically explained, the ADA AS is releasing acidic compounds into the water column, these acids dissolve the coral (made from calcium carbonate) releasing calcium and carbonate. The calcium and carbonate are what increases the hardness and helps stop (buffers) the pH from dropping despite the acids leeched by the AS.

The following is a good old article that contains some essential reading, it's especially important to understand some water chemistry when you have fish that aren't suited for your tap water:

http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html

Just ignore that part in the article about phosphate causing algae in planted tanks .


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## AlexH (4 Dec 2016)

Thank you mate. this is great.


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## AlexH (4 Dec 2016)

three-fingers said:


> No problem, I hope your endlers thrive . What type of rock? Most rock sold for freshwater aquariums is specifically selected to be inert so that they don't release minerals into the water which may ruin the water for soft water fish. This is why I am specifically suggesting sandstone as it is made mainly from the mineral calcium carbonate will buffer your pH by raising water hardness.
> 
> 
> As above, unfortunately it is not as simple as this. Different species fish have different water chemistry requirements depending on where they evolved. Some fish only live in soft water, some fish only live in hard water and some fish are frequently found in both.
> ...



Ive just added some oyster shell.

How long should i leave it in? is it safe? id hate for the fish to suffer


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## three-fingers (5 Dec 2016)

Oyster shell is perfect, leave it in permanently, it will take years to dissolve.

.


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## AlexH (5 Dec 2016)

three-fingers said:


> Oyster shell is perfect, leave it in permanently, it will take years to dissolve.
> 
> .



Ok great.

How long until there is a development in PH?

Also, how will this impact my plants?


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## three-fingers (5 Dec 2016)

Depends on your water parameters before it went in and how much you added.  It only makes a very slow gradual difference.  Remember pH is not really critical here (that's old fishkeeping thinking not suite to modern planted tanks), hardness is, so ignore anything in the article above which implies otherwise. It is an old article but the chemistry is accurate easy to understand in fishkeeping terms.

The plants won't care, unless they were deficient of calcium. Also some plants can use carbonate as a carbon source, so certain species may benefit slightly if they are carbon limited. But really it will make negligible difference to the plants.


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