# BBA returns with a vengance



## bogwood (8 Nov 2010)

Ive been struggling for 3 weeks now to control the outbreak, and dont really know what to try next.
 I did a 3 day complete blackout, last week, but no differance.

My set up is;
EQUIPTMENT
ADA Amazonia??
AquaOne 620T tank and cupboard/stand;Tank size 62cmTall x 62cm Wide x 39cm deep, tank capacity approx. 130litres
Eheim 2075 (prof 3) 1250lph 
Lights currently 2 x 24w T5 (Hagen Glo) 
CO2 - Pressurised system with 3kg bottle and  UP in line diffuser. 
Hydor Korailla 2800 pump.

My lights are on 7 hours per day.
Co2 comes on 2 hours before the lights come on, and goes off 3 hours before the lights switch off. Total 6.5 hours.

FERTS etc.
Tropica plus, 3ml per day.
Easy carbo 4ml per day.

WATER CHANGE. 60% weekly min. pre treated with Aquasafe

STOCKING LEVELS
12 ottos.
12 cardinals
15 CPD
8 C Sterbai
50 Cherry, and 10 Armano.

My planting levels are med, and include.
Java narrow.
Floating plant
Hygrophila Pinnatifida
Val Nano
Pogostemon Erectus
Rotala Wallichii
Hydrocotyle Verticillata.

Ive obviously been following the BBa topics closely.
My drop checker has been tried in different positions, and shows green for the full lighting period.
Can anyone suggest a way foward, or what to change.???


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## andyh (8 Nov 2010)

Sounds like you need Clive!


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## danmil3s (8 Nov 2010)

your co2 needs to be on longer mate 3 hours before lights off is to early try 1 hours its causing insatiability. also a black out wont affect bba you need to remove it or spot does with your easycarb. just till you've solved you problem only having one light tube one would help you out.


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## bogwood (8 Nov 2010)

danmil3s said:
			
		

> your co2 needs to be on longer mate 3 hours before lights off is to early try 1 hours its causing insatiability. also a black out wont affect bba you need to remove it or spot does with your easycarb. just till you've solved you problem only having one light tube one would help you out.



My son has also told me likewise, so ive just extended the CO2 for 2 hours.  
Remove a tube, yes, never thought of that one.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been cutting off the effected leaves every day, in fact its quiet frightening how much my plant mass has reduced.
I have done some spot dosing, but unfortunately, my various mosses are not responding very well.

Ive removed the hardware, and soaked it in Bleach, they stayed clear for about 10 days, but are now showing signs of regrowth.
Thanks very much for your ideas.


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## CeeJay (8 Nov 2010)

Hi bogwood.

I have to agree with danmil3s. More CO2 is your answer, for sure.
You will have to remove infected leaves, as you have been doing, until you get on top of it.
I've had my fair share of battles with this stuff in my early days.
You certainly have enough flow around the tank with your filter and Koralia, just makes sure the distribution is OK.
I now push my drop checker into the yellow, but you would need to keep a close eye on your fish as you tweak it upwards, so do it on a day you're around, to keep a check on things. I upped mine gradually, leaving 2-3 hours between increases and kept a close eye on the fish. 
My CO2 comes on 2 hours before lights on and goes off 2 hours before lights out. I'm not using Easycarbo either  
Haven't seen any BBA since the increasing the CO2   .
Word of warning though, as your plant mass increases you will need to up the CO2, as the demand for it will be greater. That may be what triggered this outbreak  
Good luck in your battle.


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## Anonymous (9 Nov 2010)

When fighting any algae and BBA in particular you have to aim for balance between flow, co2 level and column fertilizing. The last is easy, add small amounts every day and you are fine.

The first and second are bound one to the other. Having too much flow, most of the CO2 exits the tank, too little and your CO2 don't reach all plants. The balance is around 10x flow +/- depending on your tank length. Unfortunately you have too much flow ~40x, I'd get rid of Koralia and stick to the filter's flow, it's more than enough for your tank size, try moving the outlet here and there until the water flow reaches every corner of the tank.

I'd also stop EC with pressurized CO2, it's a waste of money and you can't reach an equilibrium in your tank dosing both.

Your light is fine, don't change it.

Also check your Up Atomizer and wash it in bleach if it's too dirty.

Cheers,
Mike


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## Arana (9 Nov 2010)

clonitza said:
			
		

> Unfortunately you have too much flow ~40x, I'd get rid of Koralia and stick to the filter's flow, it's more than enough for your tank size, try moving the outlet here and there until the water flow reaches every corner of the tank.



there's such a thing as too much flow?!?!??


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## Anonymous (9 Nov 2010)

Regarding planted tanks yes, you shouldn't exaggerate, aim for good water movement and optimize your distribution, you don't want to waste the CO2 or stress too much your plants and in particular, regarding this setup, the fish (chocolate gourami).

Cheers,
Mike


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## bogwood (9 Nov 2010)

CeeJay said:
			
		

> Hi bogwood.
> 
> I have to agree with danmil3s. More CO2 is your answer, for sure.
> You will have to remove infected leaves, as you have been doing, until you get on top of it.
> ...


Thanks Chris. 
The Co2 time has now been increased by 2 hrs, and i will see if i can increase rate, without going too much into the yellow. I like my fish/shrimps too much to put them in danger. So will have to handle carefully.
Dont think ive got the nerve to stop easycarbo at the moment...... maybe one for the future.



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> When fighting any algae and BBA in particular you have to aim for balance between flow, co2 level and column fertilizing. The last is easy, add small amounts every day and you are fine.
> 
> The first and second are bound one to the other. Having too much flow, most of the CO2 exits the tank, too little and your CO2 don't reach all plants. The balance is around 10x flow +/- depending on your tank length. Unfortunately you have too much flow ~40x, I'd get rid of Koralia and stick to the filter's flow, it's more than enough for your tank size, try moving the outlet here and there until the water flow reaches every corner of the tank.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your ideas Mike.
I will hold fire  with changing the light, and see how the Co2 increase works.

FLOW........... not sure on this one.
I originally had a Korilla nano. and quiet frankly with the depth of the tank, was doing very little, and i was starting loosing the battle with BBA.  So as i had a 2800, lets give it a try.
The output on my eheim, allowing for head of water, and all the media/floss, plus plants /decor in the Tank, makes me think its well below the claimed output from Eheim
Just about to spring clean the UP atomiser in Bleach......... good suggestion.





			
				Arana said:
			
		

> clonitza said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


      :!:  :!:  :!: 

Within reason, i always believed the more the better..............what do others think in my particular case????????

Again thanks for all your help, im determined not to be beaten.


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## bogwood (9 Nov 2010)

clonitza said:
			
		

> Regarding planted tanks yes, you shouldn't exaggerate, aim for good water movement and optimize your distribution, you don't want to waste the CO2 or stress too much your plants and in particular, regarding this setup, the fish (chocolate gourami).
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike



Yes i forget my good old choolate gourami, they just potter round the tank, oblvious to all my problems.


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## Anonymous (9 Nov 2010)

This should be your distribution with or without the powerhead.






I'd aim for a smaller pump at the bottom, try to use your Koralia Nano if you still have it. I use a small 300l/h pump to help distribution in a longer tank than yours, with a total flow of 7x. If your see surface scum add a smaller pump at surface, but don't use your filter's outlet cause you need the co2 to reach the bottom.

I'd add an extension to the filter's outlet.

If your filter flow is not ok try to clean the hoses/pump and replace (not clean) the perlon pad often (twice a month).

Cheers,
Mike


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## bogwood (9 Nov 2010)

Thanks again Mike.
Some good advice, like the flow patterns.  
Im a bit of a Eheim freak,as my lads say.  
I use the Installation kit, and have dropped the return into the tank, so the Co2 goes well down.
Yes i do  as you suggest with the media,and cleaning the pipe work is so easy with the Installation set fitted.

Cheers

PS Off to try and find my 900 Nano.


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## sebado (9 Nov 2010)

Hi,

I am having similar problems. Have had BBA for 6 months. I also have a fine slightly fuzzy algae on a lot of my leaves that rubs off between my fingers but I would like to get rid of this or at least reduce it. Is this diatomes?

i am using the estimated index of dosing.

From what I have read there are 3 factors that bring on black brush.

1. Low CO2: The CO2 comes on an hour before the lights and go on and off an hour before the lights.

My dropchecker is lightish green. I  think I am doing about 5 bubbles a second but impossible to tell. My lights are on for 8 hours a day.

- Should I try and increase the CO2 or should I increase the length of time it is on for by an extra hour in either direction?
- Obviously there is a requirement to have 30ppm of CO2 in the water. By increasing the length of time that the CO2 is released, does this increase the amount of CO2 in the tank? (I hope that is clear)

2. Poor flow: I don't think this is the issue. The BBA almost seems most prolific in the centre of the tank where there is plenty of flow.

3. Low Phosphates: I do not add Phosphate to my dosing and it has been suggested that if the flow and CO2 levels are fine then i could try adding some as the water in my area contains very little.

My setup:

300 litre tank.
4 x 38W T5 (too much light)
Tetratec 1200 filter
Atomisor
Fire Extinguisher CO2 kit
Koralia Nano
Location: In my kitchen and does get direct sun light. Not much I can do about this although i do put a towel over the front of it during the day. I get thin green film on the glass every 3-4 days. I may just have to live with this.

I have been spot treating with easycarbo for ages and never got on top of the BBA.

I have switched off 2 of the lights for the last month and stopped spot dosing with EC. The BBA has got worse and is now begining to put down a nice carpet on my bogwood. I was considering writing my name using EC along the side.   

I think my flow is around 10 x and all the plants seem to have at least a tiny amount of sway.

I have just ordered some Excel Flourish to dose the tank and kill it all off. 

I have read various suggestions on how to dose this. Some say a week, some say 3 days. Here are a few. 

1. Dose 1x,2x,3x,3x,3x,3x,3x
2. Dose 3x,3x ,3x,3x,3x,3x,3x
3. Dose 1x,2x,3x,1x,2x,3x,3x

How is the general accepted way to do it and ensure you kill it off in a large tank.

I understand i need to address the underlying problem but would like to kill it all off first and am done with spot dosing.

I had Amano genocide and had 12 dead in my tank in one go about 6 weeks ago. Very messy and upsetting. No idea what happened.

Once I have finished with the Flourish i am going to go and buy another 20 to eat all  the dead stuff.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## bogwood (10 Nov 2010)

Thanks for all the help in tackling the BBA.  
What i have done forthwith is;

1.Co2 period increased by 2 hours
2. Will keep trying the drop checker in different places, and ensure it is green/yellow as lights come on.and increase bubble rate accordingly.
3.Hydor 2800 has been replaced with a Nano 900. This now gives a combined turnover of 16 times. more realastic than the 30 i had.
4.Keep ferts/easy carbo dosing going.
5. Up atomiser has been well cleaned .
6. The filter return has been dropped 12 ins lower, so the CO2 reaches the substrat better.
7. Added a fast growing stem plant as a indicator.
8. Continue removing BBA, and maitain a stricter filter servicing.

And finally have a few beers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will keep you posted on how it goes.
Cheers
Bogwood


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## nry (10 Nov 2010)

> sebado:

EasyCarbo is the same as Flourish Excel, just a different brand.

The EX1200 is listed at 1200 litres per hour.  If you're lucky you'll get half that, so you're just about managing 2 times turnover per hour for 300 litres.  The Koralia Nano is also quite small for your tank so will help a little but not loads.

Koralia nano does up to 1200 litres/hour too (260Gallons per hour) so with the half flow of the 1200 you're just about managing 6 times turnover per hour max.

BBA is nearly always CO2 related, so I'd suggest that the flow you have is not sufficient at all to get the CO2 and nutrients around the tank hence the build up of BBA you are seeing.


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## bogwood (10 Nov 2010)

nry said:
			
		

> > sebado:
> 
> EasyCarbo is the same as Flourish Excel, just a different brand.
> 
> ...



Hi Nry.
Just read your reply, and youve got me pannicking/confused,   then i realised your comments are directed to the other guy who has similar problems. Thats a relief.
Cheers
bogwood.


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## Tony Swinney (10 Nov 2010)

Hi Bogwood

Youre doing all the right things   As youve seen from my journals I've had some battle with BBA, and resolved them within a couple of weeks using the same methods you are using - no blackouts required.

The only other thing I would recommend is a shoal of Siamese Algae Eaters - they really are just that and have reduced my BBA at an amazing rate - no good if you have mosses or an open topped tank though - they do jump !

Tony


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## bogwood (10 Nov 2010)

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> Hi Bogwood
> 
> Youre doing all the right things   As youve seen from my journals I've had some battle with BBA, and resolved them within a couple of weeks using the same methods you are using - no blackouts required.
> 
> ...



Hi Tony, thanks for those words of encouragement.  

I read your journal fully the other day....highs and lows, all sounded familar.

Totally agree on SAE, had 4 small ones last year, they were recommended, just like youve said.
"AMAZING" they were like a flock of starving sheep, and just kept going, and going. I then noticed my lovely mosses were fast disappearing, as were my small cherries, and one of them was getting very dominant, and spent the day nudging/chasing my cardinals, corydoras and choclate gourami.
Would you believe mine also were jumpers, and in fact were returned to the tank on several occasions, to graze another day.
Further more they were now on the way to 4inches.  Luckily a friend had a 6ft tank, who was more than willing to have them.
Cheers
Bogwood


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## sebado (11 Nov 2010)

nry said:
			
		

> > sebado:
> 
> EasyCarbo is the same as Flourish Excel, just a different brand.
> 
> ...



I thought the flow was 2400 p/h. That would explain how I got the flow so wrong.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Do you think adding another Koralia nano at the other end of the tank is advisable to bring the flow up?

Is the filter big enough to handle the biomass of this tank.

Fish always look helathy but lost 2 Golden Gouramis to dropsy in 2 weeks and an otto to one yesterday. Could this be because the fister isn't up to scratch?

Thanks again for your help.


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