# Here we go Again!



## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

Here we go again! May be I am not supposed to have co2. I bought a new Regulator then had to get a replacement solenoid and everything was working perfectly at a steady 1bps for a week.

Then thought it was time to up the bps to a more realistic 1.5 -2bps which I did Monday.
Tuesday 15mins are switching on the bps had dropped to less than 1 bps so readjusted to 2bps and was fine all day.

This morning, within 15mins the bps has dropped to about 1 bubble every two seconds or so and I am about to adjust back up
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The bottle is at 55/56 bar and the working pressure is 2.5. Anyone any idea as to what is going on please? as I am really getting fed up with it all now!!


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## ian_m (26 Jun 2013)

Have you got as short as possible/necessary lengths of CO2 tubing connecting everything up ?

When I first set up my CO2 with inline diffuser, I connected regulator to valve and bubble counter with short'ish length of CO2 tubing (ie enough to move and fiddle without pulling on tubing) and used the rest of my 4 metres of tubing to connect bubble counter to diffuser. This was with the incorrect idea that I could move the diffuser to other side of tank without changing piping. You can't move the diffuser as part of filter setup/pipe work so a silly idea.

However the diffuser worked, could see "mist" in the tank, but I had real difficulties setting the bps rate reliably. Set to one rate, next day something slightly different. Also seemed to vary a lot. One minute was very high bps, then slow to 1-2bps then very high bps again and lots of CO2 mist in the tank.

Shortening the tube length from bubble counter to diffuser and perfect. Using the CO2 Supermarket regulator can set bps from 1 bubble per 5 seconds to many many bubbles per second. And exactly the same rate the next day when CO2 comes on.

I assume the excessive length of CO2 pipe was pressurising and pressure releasing causing the variable bubble rate. I think other people has seen this type of behaviour where they have remotely located their CO2 source and have had real problems reliably setting the CO2 rate. Also says in setting up CO2 instructions, keep tubing lengths as short as possible.


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

Hi Ian, Yes it is as short as possible. Everything was fine for about a week, whilst I had the bps at 1 bps, it only started messing about when I upped it to 1.5 - 2 bps.
Although not as short as it could possibly be as my filter is an Eheim and does not fit in the cabinet and the FE is in the cabinet (the wife insisted I could not have it outside) so there is extra length where there would not be if they were next to each other.


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## jacaranda (26 Jun 2013)

Perhaps what I would do is test with just the bubble counter connected, and see if it remains the same or improves. If its the same, the reg is at fault or if it runs fine something is wrong perhaps more pressure is needed


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## Andy Thurston (26 Jun 2013)

Try more pressure from regulator. If pipe work is as short as possible and leak free, you may not be allowing enough gas through regulator for the additional the bps you require


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

jacaranda said:


> Perhaps what I would do is test with just the bubble counter connected, and see if it remains the same or improves. If its the same, the reg is at fault or if it runs fine something is wrong perhaps more pressure is needed


 
Hi,
Seems sensible, but what I will do first is to up the working pressure from 2.5 to 3bar and see if that makes a difference.Then go from there!


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## jacaranda (26 Jun 2013)

Also could test for faulty check valve blocking flow if that doesn't work


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

jacaranda said:


> Also could test for faulty check valve blocking flow if that doesn't work


 
Yes I have checked them loads of times..I did remove one check valve (just before Atomizer) but may change the two I have left (one out of reg and one out of bubble counter) when I get some more.


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## Pinkmummy79 (26 Jun 2013)

Dude, this is exactly what I went through for months, issues with regs, changed to JBL eventually and then still had fluctuating bubble count, I just whipped everything off and added bits back one at a time, testing flow of gas after each addition, it was all mu easy aqua double check valves and the same brand of bubble counter, they were all leaking somewhere! some screw threads had split, maybe I overtightened them? new ones out the pack were leaking from the centre of the valve itself and so was the bubble counter, I nw use the brass ones with small hose clips and for the fist time (since about a month back now) I have fast, but constant Co2.  what type of check valves have you got mate?


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

I was using algarde and easy aqua.....my lfs no longer sell algarde so I am using easy aqua and a JBL bubble counter! I am now only using one check valve from my reg to the bubble counter and the tube directly from the other side of the bubble counter to the inline atomizer.


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## Shades (26 Jun 2013)

I've got the same setup as you Bertie (up regulator+up atomizer), when i was using a glass in tank diffuser i needed to have about 4/5 bps to get the drop checker to show lime green bordering on yellow. Since installing the up inline atomizer i only need about 1.5 bps to get the same concentration of co2 but i did have to up the working pressure to about 5bar to get it working correctly. I tried lower working pressure but could never get it working right for me.


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

I upped mine to 3bar this morning and will see what happens tomorrow on start up.


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## Gary Nelson (26 Jun 2013)

Yes it sounds to me like your pressure is to low, I've ran mine before at almost 4 bar to get a nice constant bubble rate... Up the pressure and see what happens... At worst if there is a leak it will find it quicker, but I'm sure it's just low pressure related.


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

I have a problem though! if I up my pressure to beyond 3bar I get a slight fluctuation on the gauge. I have searched and searched for a leak and cannot find one so I do not know what is causing it. At 3bar and below it is fine which tells me that there must be a leak somewhere under "load" but blowed if I can find it. Tomorrow I am going to start again and use LS-X Fernox on all joints.


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## Shades (26 Jun 2013)

Bertie said:


> I have a problem though! if I up my pressure to beyond 3bar I get a slight fluctuation on the gauge. I have searched and searched for a leak and cannot find one so I do not know what is causing it. At 3bar and below it is fine which tells me that there must be a leak somewhere under "load" but blowed if I can find it. Tomorrow I am going to start again and use LS-X Fernox on all joints.


 
Could you explain the fluctuation because i've got mine at 5bar and when the co2 kicks in i get a slight dip on the working pressure needle.


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

yes it is only a slight dip but it is regular and keeps this small fluctuation going like a ticking clock


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## Gary Nelson (26 Jun 2013)

My needle fluctuates if I sit and watch it.... I put it down too that its doing it job, basically controlling all that pressure behind it - if I sit and watch the bubble rate that is very constant though.  If you are using the correct co2 piping and have put half an inch or so in boiling water as you have fitted them onto the joints then you should have a very tight fit and leak free, you should not even need any fernox.


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## Shades (26 Jun 2013)

You've got me stumped, am i right in saying you had the same problem when using the co2 supermarket regulator?.


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## Bertie (26 Jun 2013)

Shades said:


> You've got me stumped, am i right in saying you had the same problem when using the co2 supermarket regulator?.


 
yes but to a much greater degree! It may be that I am now being over sensitive to all this...I may be better off just shutting the cupboard and ignoring it I have changed/reduced all but one of the check valves, changed my bubble counters and have even used two different UP Atomizers and also originally a ceramic diffuser. It is becoming like a long running soap!!


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## kirk (26 Jun 2013)

May be a daft question Bertie but have you used ptfe tape on the Fe thread and is it tightened up.? I thought I'd tightened mine up but after a week or so I was able to turn the reg nut three quarters more and I'm heavy handed. just a thought.


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## Bertie (27 Jun 2013)

Well having the working pressure up to 3bar did not solve it..I still had to increase to 2bps via needle valve. I have turned the pressure up to 4bar and will not re-do my co2 connections until I receive my brass check valve tomorrow, then start from scratch, including re-connecting reg to cylinder.


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## Andy Thurston (27 Jun 2013)

Can you set bps after its slowed down and ignore what it does before that or does bubble count remain remain inconsistant after this 1st 15 mins?


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## Bertie (27 Jun 2013)

Big clown said:


> Can you set bps after its slowed down and ignore what it does before that or does bubble count remain remain inconsistant after this 1st 15 mins?


 
Hi,
Once it has done its thing and after about 15mins I re- set the bps and it is fine all day long...then the next morning I have to start all over again. When I had it set at just 1bps it was perfect every morning but it is only since I tried to up it to 2bps. I may have to re-set every morning and put up with it. It is not ideal especially if I wanted to go away for a visit but will have to lump it I expect.


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## Andy Thurston (27 Jun 2013)

So is it starting slow or is it starting fast and slowing down to below what you need.


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## Bertie (27 Jun 2013)

Big clown said:


> So is it starting slow or is it starting fast and slowing down to below what you need.


yes, it starts fast, probably no more than x2 maybe a bit less then it slows right down but then just does not go back to what it was set to...so I have to re-set the bps


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## Andy Thurston (27 Jun 2013)

Im still thinking its pressure related but if you turn it up more, you need to make sure your connections can take it, ie mini jubilee clips or screw down fittings on check valves, bubble counter etc


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## jacaranda (27 Jun 2013)

Silly question, but is your tap fully open on your co2 bottle?


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## Bertie (27 Jun 2013)

jacaranda said:


> Silly question, but is your tap fully open on your co2 bottle?


 
yes..fully open...when I take delivery of my new metal check valve tomorrow, I will fully re-connect everything from the bottom up! hopefully that will solve it.


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## Bertie (28 Jun 2013)

Well yesterday I upped my working pressure to 4bar. This morning I re-connected all co2 tubing and replaced my plastic check valve with a costly s.s one and after 15mins the bps is not far off what it was yesterday after adjustment at about 1.5 bps. So fingers crossed that it continues to do that everyday.
I do not have any idea on which part of the procedure "cured" it but I will leave it as is now and see how it goes. Thanks to all for all your suggestions.


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## David Shanahan (21 Sep 2013)

I have been having the same issue with my tank. Though had no issues with the ceramic atomiser, my co2 occasionally doesn't pump at all now I have installed an up atomiser. But it changed everything at the same time.

Checked the drop checker and it's turning dark green, checked the bubble counter and no bubbles. Turned up the needle valve and hey presto, bubbles.

Atomiser is less than 2ft from canister. I think it's the cheap check valve that's doing me the dirty so plan to replace, but first going to increase to 4bps to see what happens.

Just out of interest Bertie, did you have any more problems?


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## Bertie (22 Sep 2013)

Hi,
I have not had any problems since and my co2 has been running smoothly since.
Good Luck.


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