# What to put in gel capsules for root ferts? - Need to purchase this AM



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

I've purchased some gel capsules so that I can start making my own root ferts, but I'm a bit confused as to what product to place in them.

All of the planted tank websites I've viewed so far seem to be based in the USA as none of the products they recommend are available in the UK!

I was thinking of either:
Scotts Miracle-Gro All Purpose Slow Release (NPK 17-9-11 with magnesium and trace)

or

OSMOCOTE CONTROLLED RELEASE PLANT FOOD (NPK: 14-13-13)

But if there's something better available I can grab on eBay please let me know. I'm looking to make a purchase this morning.


----------



## Tomfish (17 Jul 2013)

Osmocote is the most commonly used by people on this forum. It is commonly used under inert substrates. It does contain ammonia, but can be used below the substrate without problems. I'm interested to know how you get on, because I've did the same. I got gel capsules from ebay filled them with osmocote but never used them because I became unsure whether the capsules would inhibit the release of nutrients. cheers


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

Thanks for the reply Tom. I was wary of purchasing the UK Osmocote as it seems chemically different to the one that the USA guys use. For example, if I look on the scotts.com site, none of the products on there match the UK ones: w-w-w.scotts.com/smg/gocat2/osmocote-plant-foods/cat50116//

What made me interested in the Miricle-Gro one was that it contains other trace elements (assuming thats good?).

But if UK guys are using this Osmocote below with success, then I'm not goign to question it 
w-w-w.ebay.co.uk/itm/396110-Osmocote-Controlled-Release-Plant-Food-Pouch-750g-/231002754340?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Garden_Plants_Fertiliser_CV&hash=item35c8d64d24


----------



## ceg4048 (17 Jul 2013)

Osmocote already is encapsulated in gel. It makes no sense whatsoever to place it in another gel capsule. It also doesn't matter what the differences are between the mixtures across different location N,is N, P is P and K is K. The differences in traces also doesn't matter. You are making things much more complicated than you need to. The only reason for DIYing your own gelatin capsules is if you have raw powders such as KNO3 and so forth. Then you fill the capsules with your powder mix. The advantage is lower cost and you can eliminate the addition of toxic nitrogen forms such as ammonium salts. Osmocote and Miracle Grow contain ammonia which can be a problem if overused.

Cheers,


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

@ceg, thanks for the reply. I will try not to over-think this whole thing 

As for the capsules, I'm doing that because I want to bury the osmocote granules deep beneath the substrate. Short of tweezering every granule into the sand I assumed that capsules was the accepted method?


----------



## ceg4048 (17 Jul 2013)

No, you don't need to put them in another gelatin vessel because that will simply slow the release of the nutrients. If you want to put them deep then just put some in an ice cube tray and when the ice forms then push the cubes down into the substrate. Normally you add slow release fertilizers when setting up the tank so that the Osmocote is sitting on the bottom glass. To add them after the gravel is added, the ice cube method is so easy. When the ice melts the granules will be in position and will start to work. There is no point in putting another barrier in front of the nutrients because then they will have to dissolve through the first gel and then through your second gelatin.

Cheers,


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

I did read about the icecube method, but the reasoning in my head for not going that route is that my entire substrate is covered in dwarf sag and I couldnt just push an icecube into that as I'd have square patches missing in my carpet 

I also assumed that gel caps would dissolve quite quickly? When you stick one on your tongue they seem to get tacky and start to melt quite quickly. Obviously ice would melt a lot quicker, but I cant see how that would be an option for me?


----------



## ceg4048 (17 Jul 2013)

Well your saliva has some enzymes that may be different than what's in water.  It just depends on what kind of cellulose is used. Test the capsules in tank water I guess. In any case, I see your point about the substrate being covered with plants. Your option is always to simply dose the water column. There is no need to use substrate fertilizers unless you find it tedious to dose the water regularly. If this is low tech i.e non-CO2 enriched then you can just dose weekly or bi-weekly.

Cheers,


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

Skipping back a few weeks...

I planted out my entire tank with dwarf sag spaced about 2cm (yes it took ages), unfortunately being a n00b and possibly cheated by the seller I thought it was dwarf hairgrass that I was planting.

After just a few days, the growth really took off and I decided to trim it  so that it would spread out (thinking it was hairgrass).

Unfortunately as it was dwarf sag it started browning and has not grown at all now for about 2 weeks.

I've been dosing with ferts into the water, the lighting is on 12hrs and I'm running compressed CO2. The substrate is sand on top and a fertilised soil underneath.

I'm just hoping that as a last ditch attempt to get the sag growing again, some ferts direct into the substrate will help?


----------



## ceg4048 (17 Jul 2013)

I really don't think so. There is NOTHING you can achieve from substrate dosing that you cannot also achieve more easily by dosing the water column. That is one of the defining properties of aquatic plants. Also. if you have soil underneath then there is no point adding more fertilizer. The soil is very high in nutrients.

In any case, browning has nothing to do with nutrients and is strictly a CO2 problem. A 12 hour lighting period does more damage than it helps, especially if the light intensity is high. Reduce the period to about 8 hours for now and improve your CO2 or your flow, or your distribution methods.

Cheers,


----------



## Henry (17 Jul 2013)

Just pull a couple of Sag plants up. They reproduce quickly enough, and root fertilising will encourage them to do so.


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

@ceg - I don't think its a CO2 flow issue as I'm injecting 2bps into a 120L tank through a diffuser directly below the canister inlet. I then use a spraybar directed straight down at the sag and I can see it movign in the current.

If anything I thought I might be deficient in lighting (hence the 12hrs) as I'm only running 2x 24w T5's and a 10w LED bar?

My dwarf sag was doign great until I cut it and it seems like this is a big no-no for this plant. I was hoping that directly dosing the root with extra ferts might encourage new shoots as I'm pretty sure that the ones I've trimmed are dying as a direct result.

@Henry, do you mean pull them and get rid of them?


----------



## ghostsword (17 Jul 2013)

jimxms said:


> I don't think its a CO2 flow issue as I'm injecting 2bps into a 120L


 
ahahaha.. everything is a CO2 issue.. as soon as you think it is not a CO2 ... bam.. it is a CO2 issue..

2bps means nothing, it all depends on your light period, flow, nutrients and the plants.. I can put 2bps on a 30L and not be enough, or 1bps on a 200L and be plenty..


----------



## BigTom (17 Jul 2013)

Sounds like you've chopped pretty much all their leaves in half!

I think you'll just need to leave them to recover for a bit. They'll probably shed all the damaged leaves and then hopefully regrow new ones if the rootstock is healthy. Might take a while though.


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

@ghost, well any more CO2 and I wont have any fish. My drop tester is at a very light lime green most of the time and I do see the fish at the surface a lot more now vs when I was using yeast/sugar mix for Co2.

@bigtom....yep I mowed it like grass  every single strand down to a uniformed height. Can i expect all of the cut strands to die off then? If so, thats going to look real nice lol


----------



## BigTom (17 Jul 2013)

jimxms said:


> @bigtom....yep I mowed it like grass  every single strand down to a uniformed height. Can i expect all of the cut strands to die off then? If so, thats going to look real nice lol


 
Yup, as far as I know. The plants will probably try and hold on to them until new growth starts coming through then eventually shed them.


----------



## jimxms (17 Jul 2013)

In that case, I'm going to proceed with the plan to give the roots a lot of extra ferts, carry on with the water based ferts and hope that it forgives me.


----------



## roadmaster (17 Jul 2013)

jimxms said:


> I've purchased some gel capsules so that I can start making my own root ferts, but I'm a bit confused as to what product to place in them.
> 
> All of the planted tank websites I've viewed so far seem to be based in the USA as none of the products they recommend are available in the UK!
> 
> ...


 

Osmocote pot shot's are all ready to be placed under substrate,plant's.
They look like a thimble all glued together and work well in moderation.


----------



## ghostsword (17 Jul 2013)

I like osmocote as well.. and what I do is to wrap it on clay, let it dry out and then put the clay at the roots. 

The issue with CO2 is how it moves in the tank, and how it reaches the plants.. you may have a lot of CO2 in the tank, but if it is not reaching the plants, and flowing right in the tank, it will not be used properly. 

CO2 is the hardest thing to get right.. so I would decrease the lighting period to between 7 and 5 hours.. and go from there.


----------



## Henry (17 Jul 2013)

Light is not an issue for Sagittaria. It is capable of growing in only ambient light (from personal experience). I would be hesitant to pin the problem on CO2, since this plant doesn't have a particularly high demand for it. I think what you have done is damage the leaves beyond repair, and the only remedy is to play the waiting game; pray that there is enough energy in the roots for the plant to bounce back. You may have to wait a week or two though.


----------



## jimxms (18 Jul 2013)

Just an update for those interested. My gelatin capsules arrived today, so I placed one in tank water to see how long it would take to dissolve....

Within 20 minutes it had lost its cylindrical shape, and after 1hr 30 mins it had completely dissolved into the water!

Furthermore, when planting the capsules, if you fill them with water (individually as you plant them), they dissolve MUCH quicker (read: minutes) and have the added advantage of sinking rather than trying to shoot to the surface like torpedo's!


----------

