# I'm terrible at this



## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

hello all, I need some guidance, I really do suck at this aquascaping, I recently did up a 55g, only for two days later me decided I didn't like half the plants

I want a jungle theme, but don't know where to start
Here is my current scape, and was wondering where I'm going wrong



 

I have gone if vallis and blyxa j, I feel I need to remove ornament and get some more crypts, and stuff, think also I have to many swords, 

Someone please help, I want to order more plants just don't know what :/' I like the jungle over grown look, and wanted to add a pygmy chain carpet to the setup, I have plenty of it, lol


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## PARAGUAY (26 Mar 2015)

Hi Ghosty, the best way to achieve a jungle look I find is "easy "plants.Your set up looks promising in my opinion Those swords if the common tall variety are good,keep in check when they reach surface, tall vallis is good too and for a quick effect kept well at the back or one side to make trimming easier Hyg.Polysperma .And when they shade the crypts its no matter. With CO2 and EI dosing you will have a jungle effect in no time.George Farmer (check his scapes)does one were bulky bogwood is used with big Java Fern tied on for instant impact.The downside is the constant trimming.


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## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

So you think the left side has promise if left to fill in, I was going add attach flame moss all over the wood, also looking to rip out juwel filter replace with redmoor, with Java fern and needle leaf, and we're you saying to get some Hygro poly?


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## PARAGUAY (26 Mar 2015)

My opinion anything growing to tank surface at  the back and sides will give impact .Java Fern Needleleaf is a good choice with CO2  and good liquid fertiliser I had some myself and it literally grew to a third way across the tank, it will grow and gives a brilliant effect as long as it has good water movement around it.For quick impact Poly is good one or two pots split up will soon grow to the surface.Quite a few here  use floaters like Amazon Frogbit the root formation certainly looks "jungly".From what I know the biggest thing I would be wary of is the maintenance once it develops


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## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

Well I was thinking,

The left has the Maponi, with hygro CORYMBOSA behind it and behing that is twisted vallis, so once that grows in should look better, the Amazon sword should grow to top aswell, was going to add flaming moss to Maponi, I have a bigger crypt plant in my ten gal witch I will ad around the rest of the crypts, witch is located under my hydro leu, so that's the top sorted in the middle, I defo going to add some finger looking redmoor in the right covered in needle leaf and the branches in Java moss, my floating plant, of choice is salvinia minima witch will cover the right hand side, I'm looking adding a few plants from my 10g, witch are red ludgiwia so that may be a good colour edition may try and keep it short and use it as a mid ground, will defo add some hygro poly, and that can go next to the hydro leu, I have soil capped, so will add root tabs next to Amazon sword, and other stems, to make soil last longer,I also have a judge hygro in my ten gal, plus some baby tears I think, so really I should let everything grow, in lol,

And plus I suppose when soil deplets I can tear down and start again,


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## alto (26 Mar 2015)

Your substrate is very flat front to back & side to side ... banking/hollows etc will provide perspective.
The multi-colors in the gravel also have a significant effect on how your eye perceives the scape, if you like it, stay with it but then also realize that it does impact perception, especially at this stage where not much is grown in.
If you want "instant" scape impact, you need to plant much more densely - if you look at those 90 day scapes in journals here or in the Tropica videos, note the volumes of plants added at start up (note this does tend to lessen algae IF tank is well maintained & balanced re lighting/CO2/water chemistry/substrate chemistry).

If you want rapid growth, then you need to supply CO2 gas (there are some amazing tanks done with liquid carbon only, but not many with the same growth rates).

Spend some time studying this nano that George Farmer has done for Tropica (I thought there was a video somewhere as well) - also note the water change & fertilization schedule. 

This is a Tropica tank that is similar in some ways to your own - including the Juwel filter (from what you seem to want, I'd invest in a CO2 system, then upgrade the filter)  - again study the tank details provided, if you look at the plant layout, it's all curving lines & angles. The large pieces of wood provide perspective & planting areas (wood is chosen with this in mind), also note how the wood is placed first so it seems to rise out of the "earth" rather than sitting atop the ground level.
There is moderate banking of the substrate in this layout so you should be able to easily do this with the amount of gravel you have.
Many of your current plants are also part of this layout.

The layered stone decoration is difficult to work into a natural scape as it's very unlike what one sees in nature, adding moss & ferns to soften the lines will make it seem more part of the scape, or when it's partly obscured by dense plants.

I apologise for my bluntness but you seem dissatisfied with the tank's current state when really it's already come a long ways from how you got the tank!


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## stu_ (26 Mar 2015)

My friend, you're not terrible at this.Just impatient.
It's been less than week, nothing has had time to grow in yet.
Learn to grow what you have, when it fills in more i'm sure you'll be happier.
Aponegeton sp grow fast & big, once they've settled in.
Good luck


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## PARAGUAY (26 Mar 2015)

Check these if you can PFK issue10  September 2012 Sanjeevs Rainbows set up, probably on UKAPs here somewhere, and George Farmer Jungle Aquascape PFK Issue 6 June2011 very inspiring


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## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

Hey alto

Yes the substrate if flat, I think I did it to even out the soil cap, but I do have a garden mesh holding the soil down, so I may u plant and add some bank and highs and lows, I onky used the gravel cause I had some left, and the tank came with the same stuff, I wanted black but didn't have the money at the time, but thinking about it I may get hold of some black and go see what hardwood I can find in the woods,

So would you say right now for me co2 would be a better option then getting a better filter? I have got a few internals lieing about that could be added for better flow, couldn't get my all ponds powerhead to push through a diy spray bar, if I can I have no reason to buy a better filter

The links you provided are very inspirational, I think that maybe the wood I have is limted, I did try to have it coming out of the gravel and a 30/ angle but it's far to heavy, as mentioned I shall go to my local woods see what can be found, I refuse to pay the amount lfs want for wood
Pbluntness if fine I am unhappy with current scape

Hey there stu,

Patient to a degree, but then the adhd kicks lol, I think the plants are fine, vallis will grow on me, just the layout is not what I wanted, as mentioned maybe it's the lack of options with the wood, may try flipping it upside down who knows lol

Hello again Paraguay, I'm looking at buying like 12 issues of another member, so probably lots of inexpert ion and things I never knew so well worth it, may look into a Diana walstad book aswell as takashi amano book

Thank you all for the replies


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## karla (26 Mar 2015)

C balansae (did I spell that right?), it grows really nice if you stick it in the corner and let it go with the flow. It would look nice in your tank I think.


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## tam (26 Mar 2015)

The jungle look is generally quite dense growth, so it's never going to look jungly straight off - you need to wait for it to fill out. 

It looks like you've done a good job on the left side, imagine that twice as tall and twice as dense (which it will be if you leave it to grow) and it will then look much more of a jungle.


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## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

Hey Karla
I'm going to head down lfs, and buy some more crypts, I have a few big stem plants in my ten gallon, so will move all plant mass over to the 55g next week, ornaments got to go!

Hey tam
Just the right side that needs tuning maybe then I'll be happier, what would you recommend for the left, just fill it fall of crypts, and stems, not trying to full a plan and just plant wildly? More wood..


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## Ghosty (26 Mar 2015)

This is why im after, very green and very dence, 



 
Something along those lines, very green very dense, lots of fingerwood, I know I'm asking a lot, maybe I need to swap out the gravel, and add black film to the back plus add more plants,

Instead of buying an fe co2 system, would I be better swapping out gravel getting better hardscape and lots more plants, use liquid co2 (api co2 booster) ,, and then down the line invest in high co2


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## Matt Warner (26 Mar 2015)

Just be patient with it. It will grow in time and won't all come together overnight. I nearly gave up on my tank recently as all the plants were looking a bit crap and were melting. I was trying to go low tech and not add any co2 or liquid carbon but my lighting wouldnt allow for me to do this. I have been using liquid carbon now and the plants are growing much quicker and healthier.


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## alto (26 Mar 2015)

Ghosty said:


> use liquid co2


There is some controversy as to how well Vallisneria tolerates liquid CO2, be careful not to overdose & always premix your liquid CO2 into a litre or so of water before adding to the tank.
Make sure you dose the liquid CO2 (& water column fertilizers) on a regular schedule supporting the lighting schedule.

Changing out the gravel is more of an aesthetic choice.
Supplying sufficient CO2 is a necessity for good plant growth.
I suspect with your impatience that you will want the faster growth observed with CO2 gas - check with CO2Art to compare budgets needed ... don't forget you can supply decent amounts of CO2 with a yeast system, if you're very consistent in your management & run overlapping bottles etc, you can provide fairly consistent CO2 levels as well.

To increase plant # on a budget, pick up some tissue culture plants (some of the Tropica 1-2 Grows pots I've counted 40 stems) & propagate these emersed yourself ... after a couple weeks you should have lots of plant material.


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## tam (26 Mar 2015)

I think layers are an important thing, on the left you've done that really well - you've got low plants, medium plants and tall plants (once they grow in) and that's what will give you the dense look. 

Crypts would be a good choice for the other side - they are easy to grow and would like your soil layer - wendti is quick growing and gets nice and dense. I find with lowish light it gets about 6-8" tall. 

A lot of it is down to taste. My tank is jungly but not massively organised, I like having lots of different plants  The pic you've included look like they've stuck to a more limited range - and that looks good too.

Some wood would give you structure instantly and you could use it to attach anubias or javafern - again easy to  keep but look good. That's javafern in the middle layer of that pic.

A black background would hide your wire/equipment well - I think that sounds like a good choice. Gravel colour is up to you, I don't like black gravel but lots of people do - sounds like you're aiming to cover it up anyway!


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Hey alto

Yes co2 is something I need to sort, just for me 93 quid on dual reg and the over bits, play 20 odd quid on a fe, seems to much for me, as for plants iv been looking on the net for bundle, I also been looking through the tropica.com inspiration, and righting a list of the plants I like, I think then I will just buy them all, l like the leader plants to the like rotala indica type fuzzy stuff, so for me lots of crypts Java fern, and broad chain sword stuff will please me more, 

Do you think a small peice of redmoor on the right, witch a big bushy of Java will complement the bulk Maponi , or would sticking with some more Maponi and hill the gravel up the fikter slightl and have it sticking out at an angle, give me some more depth?

Hello tam

See I love lots of differant plants to, I found this picture early witch has really opened my eyes, been looking at buying a few big pack bundles of the net, and just going nuts, may also add some more wood on the left and a hil with lots leafy plants working down through the layers as you say, 


 
Really like his tbh, as I mentioned I too like lots of plants, I think going for something like this with lots to look at might be more eye popping to me, more achievable to

What sort of plants are along the front


I have to work a hiding place for my bn plec to, maybe a terracotta pot , could possible use that as a hill for the left, who knows


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## Andy Thurston (27 Mar 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> Check these if you can PFK issue10  September 2012 Sanjeevs Rainbows set up, probably on UKAPs here somewhere, and George Farmer Jungle Aquascape PFK Issue 6 June2011 very inspiring


would that be this one?
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/fifty-shades-of-green-1600-litre-sanjarami.11386/


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## tam (27 Mar 2015)

Just watch with some of the plant bundles, sometimes they include non aquatic plants or plants that are hard low tech and they'll generally all be the cheaper plants so they aren't always as much of a deal as they look.


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## alto (27 Mar 2015)

Ghosty said:


> Yes co2 is something I need to sort, just for me 93 quid on dual reg and the over bits, play 20 odd quid on a fe, seems to much for me


 You might start a conversation with Karol (email as it's easier to keep all the options sorted) & see what sort of system you can put together - you can add a solenoid & fancy reactor/diffusor later, even a drop checker ...
you do need:
 - regulator
 - needle valve
 - tubing
 - diffuser with bubble counter (OK you can DIY the bubble counter but every extra connection is a site for CO2 loss so minimize connections)
 - CO2 tank of some sort (CO2Art does various adapters so you can add your regulator to various gas sources)

In general, the "complete" system is a sound buy, but if you're on a strict budget, adding things over time makes more sense (you can also request a discount to apply to the system components, especially if you buy plants etc from the same shop)

My opinion of plant buys is that one tends to get what one pays for - last shipment of plants that came into my lfs, included something "extra" - as it's a small shop there are no Plant Only Tanks ... in the morning, loads of dead shrimp & stressed fish (& some dead fish as well)


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Hey guys,

So would I be able to turn of co2 supply without a solenoid ? And IV heard its worth buying a dual stage to prevent end of tank dump buy the fe?


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Have already used there website, and tbh buying everything at once when I have the money is my best option, also found that I cannot get the fe refilled locally, so maybe I get all the gravel a shed loads of plants run liquid co2 as its easily sourced, and tbh getting my fish in the tank adapt, as I want to iwaguni my ten gal lol

Here is a list of plants im looking to add, I'm going to cover the whole bloody tank in plants, I have two pieces of Maponi that are small compared to the big bit in my 55g,

Right so far I have
Hygro poly
Hygro any
Mini Java fern as I felt it will ad depth and can attach it to the small mop and I have
Alteranthers  rosaefolia
Crypt parva
Hydrocotyle sp."Japan
Staurogyne rubescens
 Micranthemum Umbrosum
Bacop compacta
 I think that's a good mixture of low mid and high plants, plus I have a big crypt and other plants in my ten gallon that I can move over, I will swap out the gravel for black, as it will help me hold plants, I have 3-6mm Dorset atm I hate it, will also black film the back, the list above I will order when I order black gravel, I will go lfs next week and buy some plants too, I think I'm going to go mad mix of plants lol, I will add flame moss to my big Maponi, so the Galaxy rasbora will still have a little home

Any more plants suggestions welcome


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## Andy Thurston (27 Mar 2015)

patients
patients
patients
keep the lights low and save for all your equipment
lots of members on here dont have a dual stage reg and never have a problem with eotd, that doesnt mean it wont happen though and a dual stage is peace of mind. i would start with flow, cheap powerheads can be very good at distributing co2 and nutrients, my mate used to use one like you have in your tank with a diy spraybar, worked very well but just a little ugly(will soon be hidden by the jungle)
personally I would hold off on buying too many plants until you have all the equipment you need. now is a good time to start an emersed nursery on your window cill to rapidly increase your plant mass( theres a link in my signature that will show you how to get started and I'm sure members will send you a few cuttings to get you going) all this can be done while saving for your equipment.
I know you want a beautiful tank full of healthy plants but ramming a load of expensive plants into a tank without all the right equipment is just a waste of money imo.
once again patients we've all been there and many of us have wasted a fortune buying plants then killing them
and good look


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## stu_ (27 Mar 2015)

^^^^^patients ? 
Sorry, couldn't resist.Never thought i'd get to use this smiley.

Read this ?
co2 refills #57 got bored of looking after that.


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Hey clown and stu

Decided that I can maybe afford co2 setup and gravel, with a little budget with plants

But now, I can afford all of it, I rung a company locally to me, they said I turn up take two 2kg extingushers, that are out of date, all I do is bring them back empty so they can still get scrape price, and they will hand me back full ones again, all they want is a round of drinks, SMASHED IT. So now for my 170 pound budget I can get a co2art co2 setup, my black gravel (have to get this as my gravel is to big and its a pain to hold down smaller plants, plus my Galaxy rasboras prefer darker substrate) and that plant list above, and I think a 2kg will last a good few months

Result


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Big clown said:


> patients
> patients
> patients
> keep the lights low and save for all your equipment
> ...



Hey there bc I did try a diy spray bar but it didn't even work, what would you suggest I do regarding the juwel filter flow, I have it at a 45/ angle pointing towards surfice, I have a little ripples, where should I put the power head, I was thinking front left pointing right, or a spray bar along left Side pointing to the right?


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## Andy Thurston (27 Mar 2015)

not sure on the juwel filter outlet all I can say is make sure both outlets are pointing the same direction ,working with each other rather than cancelling each other out. how many lph is the power head. I'll try get a short clip of my surface movement uploaded later to give you an idea of how much. surface movement is another part of co2 setup and each tank is different, some tanks have quite a lot of movement while others, like my friends and ADA tanks have next to none.
mainly depending on what type of surface film you have, if its oily I find more surface movement is needed but if its white then I've found that more nutrients are required. in both cases it needs balancing with more or less co2.
when you get your co2 gear sorted feel free to ask questions either here or in a pm


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

I have to have ripples or I get bio film on surface, I learnt that from my 10g, on my 55g I have ripples, not a lot mind , not enough to make bubbles, but enough to see ripples

And the powerhead is a 1000lph all pond solutions I have no idea where to put it, I am very limted with the juwel pump, I want a spray bar along the back, but that means a new filter, that's my next big investment, and tbh the juwel filter works a dream, so not looking to replace anytime soon, maybe when the current soil gets depleted I'll tear down and rescaoe, and change filter

So where can I position the powerhead

My options in the juwel are a 45' angle towards water surface (glass, and into the tank, or straight along the back,witch gives a circular motion in the tank


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## Andy Thurston (27 Mar 2015)

another option would be to add a spraybar to both the filter and the power head both full length across the back of the tank the key to this would be not to have too many holes in both spraybars then you will get fairly good exit velocity  from both spraybars. I'll dig out the link to dans tank then you can see his arrangement which works quite well ant its a serious jungle in there at the moment


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

I have tried everything matey

The juwel just back pushes through the motor housing when anything is added, I have two weeks to get flow sorted tbh, and I do have a question regarding co2 setups I'll pm you instead of over filling the threat



I


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## karla (27 Mar 2015)

I like your plant list!  Don't be afraid to lose some along the way, just try different stuff.


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## tim (28 Mar 2015)

I like your scape, it will mature into a very nice jungle , only thing I would change is to swap the stone ornament out for another nice piece of wood, which will break up the midground nicely and blend the two sides together, just my opinion of course  nice start mate.


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## PARAGUAY (31 Mar 2015)

Big clown said:


> would that be this one?
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/fifty-shades-of-green-1600-litre-sanjarami.11386/


Yes I think it is,I remember reading how the cabinet was custom made.Impressive from Sanjeev.


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## JamieB (8 Apr 2015)

Looks great so far, stick at it! Should come together nicely when you add Co2


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## Ghosty (8 Apr 2015)

it currently no longer looks like this, I removed the big eood as it was causing flow issues,(shitty juwel filter)
Also had major nute def in all plants, due to them not rooting very well in the large sized gravel I have, so I cut out half the gravel retainer from one side and planted everything straight into soil, so basically the tank looks a mess, IV got pre boiled wood and clay pots on the right and loads of plants on the left, but hey ho, tearing down and starting again next weekend so just waiting till then 

Ghosty


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