# STILL have flow issues... :(



## LukeDaly (16 Mar 2015)

Hello Guys, 

Still running the Dennerle Scapers tank with the Fluval 306 and Gush Lily Pipes (Inlet & Outlet) and I think I am still getting flow issues. I am getting what I believe is Black-brush algae growing around some areas of the wood mostly the back. This is really starting to put a downer on the hobby, I have spent an absolute fortune on this tank but I am not willing to give up just yet.

This is more than likely down to co2 flow issues from what I have been able read, I have also noticed that the current in the tank is not exactly the strongest. In fact its not to strong at all. 

At this point after spending the money on the lily pipes the next option seems to be to get a power head? Keeping in mind that this is a 50L shallow tank what recommendations would you guys have? Are their any small yet powerful power heads on the market at the minute? The less intrusive looking the better, this is really a last resort for me as I am all for the less in the tank the better, but ofc fish and plants come first.

I want to make sure I have a decent flow before I have to re-buy all of my plants.  

As always all/any help is very much appreciated!
Luke.


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## Rahms (16 Mar 2015)

In these threads there's always a surge in helpful posts once the poster puts some pics up! Much easier for people to help if they can see the issue themselves, rather than your interpretation of it.

I'd be surprised if you need a powerhead.  I've got a 206 on a 60L and have to throttle it down to stop it being too much for my fish. You will probably be told (by someone more experienced than I) that a spraybar running across the length of the tank is a better option than a lily outflow and an additional powerhead. And I'd say that's pretty good advice!

Your current should be good, so maybe work out why its low.  Is there a large constriction somewhere? Are you using a CO2 reactor? Is your filter jam-packed with media? Is it clean? Does it operate quietly (if loud, may indicate a fault)?

You probably have thought of all this, I'm no expert, but I can't see how you have a bigger filter on a smaller tank and have poor movement.

Good luck!


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## LukeDaly (16 Mar 2015)

Rahms said:


> In these threads there's always a surge in helpful posts once the poster puts some pics up! Much easier for people to help if they can see the issue themselves, rather than your interpretation of it.
> 
> I'd be surprised if you need a powerhead.  I've got a 206 on a 60L and have to throttle it down to stop it being too much for my fish. You will probably be told (by someone more experienced than I) that a spraybar running across the length of the tank is a better option than a lily outflow and an additional powerhead. And I'd say that's pretty good advice!
> 
> ...



Hello, Thanks for the reply! What is it you would like to see some photos off? The tank layout? I am currently in work but I am sure I can find some photos on my phone if need be! 

The filter could be losing pressure due to where I have to have it placed, maybe about two meters below the tank and about a meter to the right of the tank, sounds silly but this is the only place I can have the filter. I personally don't think I would have enough pressure for a spray bar to be effective.

My filter is clean and I have actually removed some of the media to try and help with the flow. Don't get me wrong there is a little flow but this just blows along the left wall of the tank and that's about it. 

Thanks, Luke.


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## Rahms (16 Mar 2015)

Well elevation may well be your issue, yes! These pumps are designed for turnover rather than pressure so it may well be struggling with that...

Pictures of plants having issues will let people identify the problems with more certainty, and a full setup shot might allow someone to solve your filter location problem! I'd try raising it temporarily (stepladder, table, chair on top of chair...) and seeing if your flow improves.  If that is the case then yes a powerhead may be your best bet, but I've never owned one so can't help you there.

Is there no chance of being able to move the tank to a lower height?


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## naughtymoose (16 Mar 2015)

Luke, you could run the outlet into a bucket and work out what your flow is before doing anything else.

That way you will be able to see how much water is being moved by the 306.


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## LukeDaly (16 Mar 2015)

naughtymoose said:


> Luke, you could run the outlet into a bucket and work out what your flow is before doing anything else.
> 
> That way you will be able to see how much water is being moved by the 306.



I done this last week actually when I had the filter out for a clean, from what I could gather the filter should have waaaay more than enough flow to go around the tank its the height/angle that the tubing has to go before it reach's the tank, I think the filter is losing a lot of pressure because of this.


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## Ghosty (16 Mar 2015)

Hello there, 

I had flow issues with my ten gallon, so I bought a 600lph internal filter, (tanks in my bedroom so an external has no suitable location)

Yes I would say the canister is struggling to move a large enough volume of water through that 2m of piping, 
All ponds sell a power head for a few quid, give that ago, and make a diy spray bar from nylon tubing


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## LukeDaly (16 Mar 2015)

Could anybody recommend a small adjustable power head?


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## Ghosty (16 Mar 2015)

The price of an adjustable power head, would be double if not triple that of a cheap internal filter with a spray bar,
I purchased all filter for £9 quid of Amazon, that now filters my tank around 10-12 times an hour, and you can just make the holes in the spray bar bigger to dial in on the specific flow for your tank, plus you have more filtration
Just my two pence
Ghosty


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## john dory (17 Mar 2015)

LukeDaly said:


> Could anybody recommend a small adjustable power head?


Can't remember the name,but i got the smallest model they had in the marine section.
It's adjustable between 800 and 1600 lph


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## john dory (17 Mar 2015)

You could also try a little skimmer.ehiem do one for 25quid.


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## LukeDaly (23 Mar 2015)

Heading to a few local LFS stores this weekend with a friend that I convinced to buy a tank (already told him to get signed up to UKAPS) so I will have a look when I am out and about. 

This is because I cant get the filter any closer to the tank and I am losing a lot of pressure the filter is still keeping my water crystal clear so I am not going to give up on the hobby over something this silly. I can put up with looking at a small power head if it means it will help stop unsightly algae etc. I can plant a few stems to help hide it a little. 

Thanks guys, Luke.


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## alto (23 Mar 2015)

LukeDaly said:


> The filter could be losing pressure due to where I have to have it placed, maybe about two meters below the tank and about a meter to the right of the tank, sounds silly but this is the only place I can have the filter. I personally don't think I would have enough pressure for a spray bar to be effective


 
I'm confused - how can the filter be 2 metres below the tank ...
before buying more stuff, why not try raising the filter position (as already suggested by Rahms).

Is your CO2 delivery efficient -  drop checker (or gasping fish) should tell you.

Setup photos & tank details (substrate, lights, fertilizer, CO2 etc) may help with the trouble shooting -  alex08 paints a very clear picture with details of his Dennerle Scaper Tank


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## Another Phil (23 Mar 2015)

Hi Luke,

A quick google shows your 306 on their website turns over "up to 300L/Hr", so with media and normal length pipes that will likely drop to 200L/H, so 4x turnover of your tank per hour, and with your tubes' friction you are realistically down to about 2-3 x turnover per hour.
That's ok for filtration but you'll need a power head or similar.

The height of the filter isn't such a problem as the siphon effect means that water travels up the return pipe as far as tank water level, so the pump only has to lift water up over the tank rim; the problem is friction due to length of hoses and general gack build-up in them.

cheers phil
.


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## alto (24 Mar 2015)

Another Phil - I think there's confusion between l & gal, usual claim for this filter is ~1100 litres/hour ... but very few filters will get anywhere near the advertised flow rate with a "head" of 2 metres!

Luke - check your filter guide, there will be a maximum "head" listed for your 306, beyond this the pump will wear much more quickly than expected & won't filter as designed


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## roadmaster (24 Mar 2015)

LukeDaly said:


> I done this last week actually when I had the filter out for a clean, from what I could gather the filter should have waaaay more than enough flow to go around the tank its the height/angle that the tubing has to go before it reach's the tank, I think the filter is losing a lot of pressure because of this.



Can you fashion a stand to get the filter higher off the floor by a couple feet?
Increase CO2.?
Some folks report that they cannot increase CO2 without distressing fishes, but by increasing surface ripple,they can then increase the CO2 a little bit more and as result, consequently use more gas faster, but may make world of difference assuming increased flow does not solve the issue.


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## LukeDaly (24 Mar 2015)

alto said:


> I'm confused - how can the filter be 2 metres below the tank ...
> before buying more stuff, why not try raising the filter position (as already suggested by Rahms).
> 
> Is your CO2 delivery efficient -  drop checker (or gasping fish) should tell you.
> ...



I still live at home with my parents so I don't have the room for a dedicated fish stand unfortunately so my tank sits on top of my chest of drawers and the filter sits on the floor of the wardrobe directly beside the tank. 

My drop checker is a nice green color but I personally don't think that the co2 is reaching the bottom or the back of the tank due to flow, the plants also are not moving in the current.

Tank Specs are: 
Base substrate - Cant remember the name in work atm
Main substrate - Sand
Lights - 24 Watt Scapers Light 
CO2 - Pressurized 2kg FE 2BPS & EasyCarbo recommended dose
Fertilizer - EI Dosing recommended dose

That Scapers tank is beautiful! 



alto said:


> Another Phil - I think there's confusion between l & gal, usual claim for this filter is ~1100 litres/hour ... but very few filters will get anywhere near the advertised flow rate with a "head" of 2 meters!
> 
> Luke - check your filter guide, there will be a maximum "head" listed for your 306, beyond this the pump will wear much more quickly than expected & won't filter as designed



The filter works superb to filter the water its only the flow is an issue, I don't have anywhere else I can place the filter so a powerhead or similar is the next best option. 

I am just trying to find something that is small enough as to not look horrible compared to the nice lily pipes etc I just forked out on. The powerhead will also need an adjustable flow I am assuming as the tank is quite small and I don't want the fish to get blew away.



roadmaster said:


> Can you fashion a stand to get the filter higher off the floor by a couple feet?
> Increase CO2.?
> Some folks report that they cannot increase CO2 without distressing fishes, but by increasing surface ripple,they can then increase the CO2 a little bit more and as result, consequently use more gas faster, but may make world of difference assuming increased flow does not solve the issue.



I could fashion a small stand to get the filter a bit higher in my wardrobe maybe, but it wouldn't be that much higher. 

I have already tried increasing the CO2 with an air-stone at the top of the tank to create a little surface movement but it didn't really make a difference, I am almost certain this is a flow issue none of my plants sway and food would never do a full lap of the tank before it sinks, it just blows to the front and sits. 




Thanks for all the comments and helpful advice so far guys!

 Ive had to scrap all my plants and substrate, the wood I could save by power hosing or bleach dipping.. I plan to tackle this at the weekend and get some new substrate in the tank and work on getting the flow right before I spend a fortune on plants that are going to die otherwise.


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## john dory (24 Mar 2015)

The 306 filters 1150 lph and has a max head height of 1.75m


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## Another Phil (24 Mar 2015)

alto said:


> Another Phil - I think there's confusion between l & gal, usual claim for this filter is ~1100 litres/hour ... but very few filters will get anywhere near the advertised flow rate with a "head" of 2 metres!


 You're right and I should read more carefully or not talk about kit I don't know
I still maintain head height is measured from the tank's water surface though.

Luke, have you cleaned out all the hoses in case there is any debris wedged in a pipe (where it narrows joining the taps for instance)?
cheers phil


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## john dory (27 Mar 2015)

Also,there is a plastic ball inside the strainer,which can clogg up


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## Ghosty (27 Mar 2015)

Think you'll need to move you room around,mso you can get the filter higher, that should solve the flow issue, and use a spray bar along the back


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