# help with hardscape



## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

Hello, i am currently trying out different hardscapes i have some mantanzania driftwood and some tgm blue stone, this is the best i have come out with so far, 









can anyone give me any tips and rules to follow for wood scapes? is there any? i plan to have the wood branching out from the middle of the tank with a centre piece plant in the middle. however will this look stupid as you are not meant to put things directly in the middle, or do i use the wood to draw the eye so it doesnt matter?

thanks


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

try and get the tips of the wood on different lines. and on different positioning from front to back. this creates the illusion of depth.....not always apparent until you've got plants in   

you can go with a central mound, slightly left or right, or completely over to ones side, in the triangular layout. think about your planting, this IMO dictates the shape your after. think if your using stems, and where the bushy part of a clump of stems will be visible.

staggered points, and stagger the wood from front to back.


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

thanks saintly, on the day of planting what do i do, becuase i cant keep playing around with the wood unless i want it to dry out and then float upon filling?


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

ermmm....maybe do the layout in the tank, fill with water, then when you've got the plants empty it of water completely. what wood is it?


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

i think the same wood aaron has in his 216l tank, as i brought it off him


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

all of the pieces of wood are individuals, how many would you recommend using, or doesnt it matter, is less more as long as it looks good?


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

AdAndrews said:
			
		

> is less more as long as it looks good?



you got it!   

there's extreme to minimalistic.


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

thanks saintly, i better get busy, cant really do that much until the ae order comes including the nature soil  then i will put that in the tank and set up the hardscape, but then i face my next problem, i want to use willow moss on the wood, but this will be too hard to do with the wood in the tank, right? cant wait to get my hands on some nature soil, i hope its worth its Â£50 price tag  

thanks again

Adam


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

AdAndrews said:
			
		

> i hope its worth its Â£50 price tag



it is. 



			
				AdAndrews said:
			
		

> i want to use willow moss on the wood, but this will be too hard to do with the wood in the tank, right?



correct. you'll have to take the branches out to do it right i'm afraid  :?


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

I think what i will do is just keep playing with the wood, but not letting them dry out too much, so they wont float, and then on plant day arrange the hardscape in the tank, the wood should be pretty well held down due to the rocks i just dont want to have to re-do everything. think i have got the plant list sorted, although not too sure about rotala rotundifolia as to the red colour, i usually like all green scapes.

thanks for your help


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

tried again, although thinking about it i think there is a little too much wood for a 35litre alone


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

think in odd numbers, 3, 5 7's with wood or stones. or rather what's obviously going to be dominant  should be odd numbers. anything that "supports" the scape dont really count.

the sub conscious can tell the difference between odd and even i think.

your on the right track though.


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## Mark Evans (15 Jul 2009)

although there's 4 pieces in there, there seems to be 3 that stand out, with the fourth looming.


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## AdAndrews (15 Jul 2009)

alrighty, i think i have too many ideas in my head  and now your teasing me with your scape  

thanks
Adam


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## rawr (15 Jul 2009)

I think you're trying to create something too extrovagant - try using minimal hardscape and if you want to, work your way up and practise a lot. I think there's too much hardscape and too much going on for a diddy 35l though.

Also, as Mark said in his first post - try to get the tips of the wood on different levels, different lengths and at different depths etc.


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

ok, thanks, i am trying  i agree with the second one that there is too much there, i thought that just after i photographed it.


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## rawr (16 Jul 2009)

Yeah, sorry if that post sounded a bit rude or whatever - just thought I'd add my two pence.    What you've got is actually great for a first try, just keep practising and it can only get better.


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

no, i appreciate the comments, i didnt take it as harsh, i'd rather you help me than not, after all i am the one asking for the help and lets face the facts you know alot more than me  

thanks- cant wait for my lilys/nature soil and tool set to come!


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

oh well, my ae order didnt come today, but hey, i have tried out another wood formation:







Elevated pic:





what do you rekon?  got any more tips? I think I am sticking with the 3 wood piece as it suits the tank size rather than 3+
oo, and more good news!! I e-mailed my local store that is starting to stock aquafleur and they said that they will be able to get them in provided I tell them quantities and species.

anyway.. eastenders awaits!!!!


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## samc (16 Jul 2009)

with the wood you have maybe you could create a mini version of this






they layouts are getting better  try spreading some stones away from the main mound like mark has done. you can really see now but if you look at the start of his journal you can see better

forgot to mention which one lol. i meant the one centre of the photo


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

thanks sam, i think there is too much wood in the middle picture for me to try and emulate in my 35litre. my wood is still quite chunky for the tank size, i will try, but i feel it gets too clogged like in my second hardscape try.


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

4th:








i think what i find difficult is imagining it planted, so dont know what will be good or bad, due to lack of experience probably.


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

i think this one is my favorite so far :





maybe a couple of tweeks, what do you lot rekon?


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## Simon D (16 Jul 2009)

I don't like the crossing of the wood in the centre of (or off centre, wherever it may be), this draws the eye to that point immediately. Your previous experiments were better in my opinion. I'm by no means an aquascaper so take this with a pinch of the old proverbial, I'm sure you will get better more constructive advice from others, but from my view that's what I see! 

No offence intended, it's better than I've ever achieved 

As you say, planted it'll be a different kettle of fish.


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## rawr (16 Jul 2009)

I don't like the last one, for the same reasons as Clark. I think the other two are great though - but with less rock and the rocks a lot less 'lined up' if you see what I mean. It will look more natural that way. You've got a good hardscape basis for a nice aquascape there.


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## AdAndrews (16 Jul 2009)

thanks, which were you refering to that you liked? 

simon, i hear you on the crossing of the wood, but i figured my centre plant on the left would draw the eye more so


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

my AE order came today, and i have tried out a couple more arrangements:
6th:







and
7th:







please dont tell me im going backwards now


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

Anyone got any views on this?

thanks
Adam


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## samc (17 Jul 2009)

i quite like the last one but concider planting as id put something in the middle on the wood arrangement like anubias or a fern but with the middle piece it would make that hard. that depends on planting though. i would also think about cutting one of the pieces in half so then you have 2 smaller pieces. this gives you a wider range of wood to choose from. dont go hacking it up though   think about it carefully if you do so. you also dont want to see the cut ends!


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

As i have lots of tgm blue stone and a very bored mind i decided to make a sort of iwagumi with a little inspiration from here: http://www.natureaquarist.com/Nature-aq ... 1973626603

I quite like it, a couple of the stones far right are just supporting as i have no substrate(yet) to hold them in place, oh, and the orange/rust colour in the middle of the main stone isnt that bad, its just my crappy camera makes it worse 












i think this would look very good on my black background, and with blyxa back right, and then some dwarf hairgrass in front of some of the stones, and then the rest h.c

opinions please.


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## Mark Evans (17 Jul 2009)

you've got the bug now   

just be careful not to get "lost" with trying to come up with the "ultimate" layout. it'll drive you crazy otherwise. pick a theme and stick to it.you'll always be wondering "what if"


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

lol. can i ask you something mate... my camera always seems to degrade the images of what its taking, the rocks in real life actually look good the way they are positioned atm, but on camera after putting them on here they loose detail, texture and their true colour, is this down to a poor camera-pentax optio or what? i feel i have it on the best settings, but still no luck, i think its also becuase people like you  have brilliant cameras and photography skills that make mine look sh#t


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## Steve Smith (17 Jul 2009)

It might be in the uploading of the image mate.  Jpeg files by their very nature are compressed, and therefor have lost some image detail.  If you further reduce the quality then you'll lose even more detail.

It's all about getting the best quality, yet a file size that's not too large for posting on the web...


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

ok, thanks mate, what do you rekon of any of the hardscapes atm?


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## Steve Smith (17 Jul 2009)

I like it mate   I'd be tempted to fiddle with the left side a little.  Those two rocks with the "crack" between them is good, but might benefit from a little more playing about 

Always good to see your inspiration next to what you've come up with


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## aaronnorth (17 Jul 2009)

That rock positioning is pretty sweet. It looks as though they have been sunken into the ground for years which is good.I think you just need to sort out that crack like Steve says as it is distracting away from the main stone


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

ok, thanks guys.. just had the first chance to look at my ae order, the nature soil looks awesome, i cant wait to use it! and the 5 piece tool set isnt bad either, worth the money imo, the only thing im not so sure about is the cal aqua nano lily pipes, they look way tooo small, which in a way could be quite a good thing, im just not sure they suit the height of the tank

Thanks for the help with the rocks, i will have a tinker about and see what i can do


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

right, ive closed the gap as much as i can with the left stones, i think im gna go with this layout, becuase when i have put the substrate in and removed the rocks far left, and maybe tinkered with the front right then it will be pretty good, has anyone got any ideas for planting




i guess i need to make a journal. right?


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## aaronnorth (17 Jul 2009)

> i guess i need to make a journal. right?



oh yes   

that is looking much better now, you need fine leaved plants, so HC, hairgrass, Pogostemon helferi, E.Tennelus, didpiplis diandra - rotala wallichi for some red in there - try something different


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

sweet, thanks mate.. just got to take it exactly how it is and move it into the tank  

how much nature soil should i use at the front and at the back- like 1.5"-4"


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

bloody amazing stuff is nature soil, so easy to work with, such an awesome product, worth every penny and i havnt even planted yet!


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

got it into the tank and improved a little, and i have to say, not bad for my first try


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## samc (17 Jul 2009)

nice one 

now start the journal  it will be better to see it in the tank


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

okey dokey, its just the journal wont be much, becuase its like another 3-4 weeks until i will be able to plant due to a holiday 8)


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## AdAndrews (17 Jul 2009)

please see journal


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