# New 5.5 US Gallon Low Light Non Co2 Tank



## faizal (8 May 2011)

Hi. I recentely bought a small 5.5 US Gallon tank and I was thinking starting a non co2 tank.

Tank Dimensions : 13.5 inches Length , 11 inches height , 8.5 inches Depth

Substrate : seachem Flourite ( I couldn't get my hands on any Leonardite here in Malaysia)

Filter : 50 GPH Taiwan made HOB filter with eheim ehfisubstrate as media in it ( some fresh mulm will soon be squeezed into it once the tank is planted)

Lighting is a Hang on tank type : It's a small U- shaped flourescent type ( I don't know what type it is) 11 watts,...raised 4 inches above water level.

Plants : Cockscrew Vals,Java fern, Anubias petite nana on rocks, Echinodorus, Hygrophila difformis ( from my old tank), Hygrophila polysperma ( from the old tank too)

Dosing: weekly dosing as to Tom Barr's suggestion. Dose for 3 weeks and skip a week or two to let the tank settle,etc

1. Does the lighting sound okay?
2. Is Leonardite compulsory? Or can I get away with very small amounts of excel dosing ( If so ,..how much should I dose daily without risking water changes as I plan to plant heavily & just top off evaporated water) 

Would really love to know your thoughts on this.

Thank you.

Faizal


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## Brenmuk (9 May 2011)

Growing plants without CO2 is hard unless you keep the light levels low both in terms of intensity and duration.
Adding a soil layer with organic matter present or using Leonardite means you are adding extra CO2 to the tank but keeping the tank low tech and greatly improves choice and quantity of the plants you can grow.

If you want to go seachem Flourite only then I would use the 11 watt light but only have it on 5-6 hrs a day. Be prepared to lower this or to add shade with floating plants if you see CO2 related algae or CO2 related plant deficiencies.


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## faizal (9 May 2011)

Thanks Brenmuk. In that case,...what if I layer up the substrate into 3 layers:
 Bottom most layer : Flourite
Middle Layer : JBL Pro Flora 
Top : Cap with inert sand like substrate.

Would this be a better choice then? Also I will reduce the lighting period to 5 hours .

My Light is a Compact fluorescent 11 watts BUT it is RAISED 6 INCHES above the water surface. I hope this isn't too much for a low tech tank. 

As you had advised,...I will reduce it ( Light Intensity) further & add floating plants if I see any signs of CO2 related algae or co2 related plant deficiencies.

Thanks again for your kind help.

Faizal


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## Brenmuk (9 May 2011)

Sand and Flourite (which is just clay) has no organic matter, I don't know about JBL pro flora.
 I generally don't bother with substrate layers unless I want to stop fine clay/compost getting into the water column and filter.


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## faizal (11 May 2011)

*MY LITTLE GREEN CORNER*

Thank you Brenmuk. Actually I've already started the tank. It's Day 3 now. I have added some large floating plants as you had advised and I have tried to reduce the lighting intensity by turning the light & its reflector sideways facing the wall rear to the tank. 

The water appears crystal clear actually,....given the fact that the only filtration going on in there is by the HOB filter. I didn't quite expect this.

i will try to post a picture soon. It's quite nice really. Little Green Corner  

Thanks again for taking the trouble to help me. I will post a picture of it soon.

Take care.

Faizal


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## a1Matt (11 May 2011)

Sounds good Faizal.

I am growing a stem only tank of the same size as yours, with slightly higher lighting and the lighting is not raised at all. No added carbon at all (no co2, no excel). Lots of floating plants.
Everything grows healthily, so this proves it can be done.

Just be very patient as things grow very slowly without carbon. They also grow dwarved, but I like that effect.


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## faizal (13 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Sounds good Faizal.
> 
> I am growing a stem only tank of the same size as yours, with slightly higher lighting and the lighting is not raised at all. No added carbon at all (no co2, no excel). Lots of floating plants.
> Everything grows healthily, so this proves it can be done.
> ...



Thank you a1Matt!!   It's truly exciting to hear someone is able to grow stems with a bit more  lighting BUT without co2 & with lots of FLOATING PLANTS!!!   

I like this tank mainly because it isn't fussy at all. I really don't mind that they grow slower and are dwarfed ,...it's nice to have a tank that "takes care of itself" y'know? 

But Co2 with all its associated fuss & "headaches" is like a drug (just like Clive says),...."We just need to get a little bit of co2 fix everyday",....  

All said ,....I am really enjoying my non co2 tank.

Hey Matt ?!! What kind of stems do you have by the way? And what's in your substrate? Do you use Leonardite too?


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## dw1305 (13 May 2011)

Hi all,


> It's truly exciting to hear someone is able to grow stems with a bit more lighting BUT without co2 & with lots of FLOATING PLANTS!!!


 That pretty well describes all my tanks, they all have a layer of  _Limnobium, Salvinia and Ceratopteris_, and some of them have _Utricularia gibba, Lemna and Pistia_ as well. The stems are a bit more limited, mainly _Cabomba caroliniana_ & _Potamogeton gayii_, with some tanks with  _Hygrophila_ corymbosa.

cheers Darrel


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## a1Matt (13 May 2011)

faizal said:
			
		

> a1Matt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I know exactly what you mean about the tank taking care of itself   
I just put in a big bag of daphnia once a month and that is the fish (3 x Heterandria Formosa) feeding sorted out. I also have some beech leaves and moss in there for shrimp (4 x cherries) and snails (blue ramshorns) to graze on. Not needed to add ferts yet (I expect I will do soon as the plant mass increases), or clean the sponge filter.

My substrate is play sand.

Plants are:
Hemianthus callichtroides (this does not grow, but stays healthy).
Hemianthus micranthemoides (I have it trimmed low to get a carpet effect).
Bacopa caroliniana
Lobelia cardinalis
3 x unknown stems (from Nanosh tank: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14748&hilit=nanosh ).
mini taiwan moss
salvinia minima
riccia fluitans (floating. It looks nice tangled in the salvinia roots)
lillaopsis brasiliensis (I just put this in floating as somewhere to store it, but it has started sending up emersed leaves, which look cool, so I will leave it there for now...)



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > It's truly exciting to hear someone is able to grow stems with a bit more lighting BUT without co2 & with lots of FLOATING PLANTS!!!
> ...



Sounds lovely Darrel, That is nice to hear you are growing Potamogeton gayii low tech. Lucky for you I have run out of space for any more stems in my nano or I would ask you for some! (to swap for some other goodies of course  )


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## faizal (14 May 2011)

Wow!! I didn't know that you could grow riccia fluitans & lilleopsis brasiliensis as  floating plants !!!  Love to see the picture of your tanks!!!  

Thank you dw 1305 & a1Matt for your wonderful feedbacks!!

Here's my Little Green Corner ( not much ,...but it's really very cute  )


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## a1Matt (14 May 2011)

Your tank has a cute look to it. I would let the floating plants cover at least half of the surface (you don't have to, but they help so much in keeping the tank stable).



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> Wow!! I didn't know that you could grow riccia fluitans & lilleopsis brasiliensis as  floating plants !!!  Love to see the picture of your tanks!!!



I didn't know you could grow the lillaeopsis as a floating plant either    It was a happy accident. 

I can not take any pics as I do not own a camera at the moment.
But there are pics of some of my other tanks online:

low tech:
http://www.lfkc.co.uk/index.php?topic=279.0
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13991

high tech:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=15567&hilit=matt+vivarium+nano


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## faizal (15 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Your tank has a cute look to it. I would let the floating plants cover at least half of the surface (you don't have to, but they help so much in keeping the tank stable).



Thank you Matt!!  But yours is much much better. I could see that you are growing a moss wall there. That's going to look awesome once it fills in.  

Matt ,....I need to ask something here. Does cabomba require highlight to do well? Or can we still grow it nicely in a low light tank (with co2)?

Faizal


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## a1Matt (15 May 2011)

Cabomba can grow with lower light.  It used to be one of the commonly grown plants in England 20 years ago before people had high light and co2.

I can not grow cabomba though. It is the only aquatic plant I have failed to grow!


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## greenjar (15 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Your tank has a cute look to it. I would let the floating plants cover at least half of the surface (you don't have to, but they help so much in keeping the tank stable).



Do the surface plants grow well because they have access to co2 therfore using up nitrates etc quicker - is this what you mean by them adding stability? - or is there alot more benefits to keeping them in the low tech


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## a1Matt (15 May 2011)

Yes, I believe it is their ability to access co2 from the surface that allows them to work as efficient filters.
In some tanks I do not even use filters, just cover the surface with floaters (amazon frogbit is by far the most effective, and also the least happiest when it gets the upper side of the leaves wet).
These tanks (vases usually) only support a tiny amount of fauna, but they do it well.

I used them for years before I knew why they were so effective.
(It was just one of the old school fishkeeping 'facts' that having floating plants was good for the aquarium).


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## faizal (16 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Cabomba can grow with lower light.  It used to be one of the commonly grown plants in England 20 years ago before people had high light and co2.
> 
> I can not grow cabomba though. It is the only aquatic plant I have failed to grow!



Thank you Matt,I don't know why but the leaves start to wither ( a sort of melt) after a few days in the tank but my current light levels are low ,....I am not sure if this is a transition period issue as Clive often points out. I.e. you move a plant from a high co2 environment and introduce it to a low co2 environment,....the plants get stressed. hence there will be some amount of initial melting. This however gets reversed & the plant recuperates as long as the light is kept at a minimum ( both in intensity & photoperiod), good flow maintained, tank kept clean, unlimited nutrients made available, etc

It's day 4 into the non co2 tank for the cabomba & some leaves have disintegrated but over all the plants look fine,....the bottom main stalk of the plant stil looking green & solid,....not brown & spongy  

Sorry for being such a yapper but I am just begining my experience into the planted tank & to be able to deduce what's probably going on is kind of part of the whole fun .

And its amazing to share it with such friendly folks


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## a1Matt (16 May 2011)

Yep, deduction is definitely part of the fun.  Fingers crossed the cabomba makes it through the process


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## faizal (23 May 2011)

Hi everyone. Matt,...the cabomba didn't make it through. Very beautiful plant but unfortunately it is too difficult for me to maintain.

Anyways the rest of the plants are truly looking very healthy indeed.  . I've added some more floating plants ,....but I don't really know their names. 

My current plant list is as follows:

Ludwigia Glandulosa
Ceratopteris thalictroides
Anubias petite nanas
Hygrophila polysperma
Some small sized Echinodorus species
Crypyocoryne Wendtii Tropica

Some new leaves have formed ,....but they are so tiny  

All in all a truly low maintanence tank.

I am dosing weekly as per T. Barr's regime for a low tech tank.

If this keeps up well for another 2 months,....I might add a pair of pearl gouramis.   That would be it. 

The thing is ,....it really needs very little light!!! 

Faizal


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## dw1305 (24 May 2011)

Hi all,


> Matt,...the cabomba didn't make it through. Very beautiful plant but unfortunately it is too difficult for me to maintain.


 Do you know which _Cabomba_ sp. it was? The one you want is the ordinary green _Cabomba caroliniana_, it has a less divided leaf than many of the other species. It grows really quickly even in low ferts, no CO2. I now get a credit for mine from a local LFS, as they apparently sell a lot of it as "goldfish food".

I've seen _Limnophila heterophylla_ sold as _Cabomba_ as well, and that also works "low light". 


> That is nice to hear you are growing Potamogeton gayii low tech


 I'm not sure what I have is actually _Potamogeton gayii_, it is definitely a S. American? _Potamogeton_ sp., but now it has really got into its stride it has grown much wider leaves than the images of _P. gayii_.  All _Potamogeton_ sp are true aquatics so they shouldn't need additional CO2. 

Any ID appreciated.


 
&




cheers Darrel


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## a1Matt (24 May 2011)

@ Faizal, that is a shame that the cabomba did not make it, but I am happy that everything else is doing well.  What I tend to do with my low tech tanks is wait until I have lots of new smaller growth (usually a few months), and then remove all the original growth as I find things look odd with the mix of the two.

@ Darrel, I can not help with the potamogeton species ID, it may be worth posting it over on LFKC as I know Dee on there has kept quite a few different species of it.


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## faizal (25 May 2011)

Yes Matt,....I can see what you mean. They would look rather funny. Big leaves at the bottom & real teeny weenie ones at the top     . You've got admit it though,....they really do look kind of cute.

Darrel,...the cabomba that I refer to is cabomba Caroliniana. It wasn't a limnophila species. Do you think they melted because my light levels were high for a non co2 setup? Is it sensitive to co2? It is listed as Medium Difficulty by Tropica's website (meaning demands better growing conditions, requires medium to good light & most often requiring CO2)


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## dw1305 (25 May 2011)

Hi all,


> I can not help with the Potamogeton species ID, it may be worth posting it over on LFKC as I know Dee on there has kept quite a few different species of it.


 Can you (or Paulo) post images on LFKC for me? or email them to Dee? I'm happy to send some plant material, I have plenty spare.

I'm not sure about the _Cabomba_, my tanks vary in light levels (from a single 11W CFL, up to 400W HPS) and it does all right in all of these, but most of them have bright ambient light as well. I don't have PAR meter, but I would think that all the tanks are all medium light or higher and I usually have a 12 hour photo-period. It is a true aquatic so atmospheric CO2 levels shouldn't be a problem.

My tank water is quite soft (basically nearly 100% rain-water) about 4 dkH and 150microS conductivity, so that might be the difference, if it isn't a light effect. A lot of the stems will be 70 - 80 cm long when I take them out, with leaves right to the bases, so it is a pretty fast grower even grown in very nutrient poor conditions.

cheers Darrel


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## a1Matt (25 May 2011)

I've posted a thread up on UKAPS, I will let you know if it is fruitful ( http://www.lfkc.co.uk/index.php?topic=1633.new#new ).  That is nice to have stems growing healthily in 150microS conductivity


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