# Thinking about a reef tank



## OllieNZ (27 Sep 2014)

Hi All,
I'm getting another tank and looking at setting it up as a reef tank, firstly best forum for reef keeping?  and secondly a question about t5s. For a planted tank I'm happy to use my bulbs till they die but the reef guys seem really jittery about using them for more than 12 months and start going on about things like spectral drift and degradation, now according to various bulb manufacturers you're looking at something like 10% lumen degradation over the life of the bulb, does this correspond equally with par degradation? I can't find any data on this at all. The bulb manufacturers seem only concerned about lumens which is fair enough as they are only concerned with how well the bulbs light an office or workshop. All the other info seems to be the same recycled "you need to change your bulbs once a year or they loose too  much brightness and the spectrum drifts and favors nuisance algae" yet no one seems to provide any hard data to back this up. So thoughts people?


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2014)

I have always changed my bulbs every year or so. it might not be necessary but I just go with the flow....
However with a reef tank I much prefer the ripple effect from LEDs or halides, it just seems to match the environment!
My lounge used to look like a spaceship had laded in it & that was from outside the house looking through curtains...
However I don't keep a reef anymore...

I never really found a friendly reef forum, to many experts & not many helpful ones but that is probably just my unfortunate experience ..


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## OllieNZ (27 Sep 2014)

Cheers Fox, 
I'd prefer leds but I'm not sure my budget will stretch to a decent enough unit. The other problem is that the tank will have a hood and most modern leds are designed to be suspended like halides.


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2014)

Yes well, reefs are very expensive!


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## OllieNZ (27 Sep 2014)

foxfish said:


> Yes well, reefs are very expensive!


Totally agree but if I can get away with £100 of t5 setup that will leave £££ for other stuff.


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## Crossocheilus (27 Sep 2014)

Maxspect razor are relatively cheap led, I know nothing about reefs but these should be ok.


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## mr. luke (27 Sep 2014)

How about tmc tiles mounted on mms rail which is fixed to the ins de of your hood? You wont want to dim them either so that will save on expense


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## DTL (27 Sep 2014)

Ref a reef keeping website,  I was a member or Reef Central when I lived in the States, and found it full of really useful info and helpful people.


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## GlassWalker (28 Sep 2014)

I also hang about on Ultimatereef, although it is quite big so easier to get lost in the crowd there. It certainly doesn't have the small forum feel.

Lighting wise, it also depends in part on what sort of corals you're after. I never used T5s on marine for much but two T5s didn't seem quite enough, and almost certainly isn't if you go for harder corals. If you poke about on ebay you can find lots of relatively affordable LED units, up to 120W for change from £100, although again some question the light spectrum from these for some types of harder coral. The cooling fans on the cheaper models can be quite noisy, and these are best suspended over tank. Having them too low can give what is coined the disco effect, particularly for "full spectrum" units with red or green LEDs too.

Overall, I don't think cost needs to be that high on a marine tank. Excluding livestock, rock and salt, about the only difference for smaller tanks is if you want to get a skimmer or not, and even they are optional and long debated about their use. I'm feeling mildly annoyed at the moment. I needed a skimmer when another broke beyond economic repair, so I got a new one for £170. I just saw the same model advertised used locally for £35 asking price. There are some serious bargains if you look out for used kit. I also narrowly missed out on a complete 3ft tank setup for £150 as seller just wanted it gone ASAP., although I did similarly get another complete tank for £100!

It might be a topic for another thread, but I have to wonder if at least some of the planted tank theory could be carried over to marines in terms of both lighting and nutrients...


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## OllieNZ (28 Sep 2014)

Thanks for the response, I've been taking a look around reef central, some useful stuff on there. 
I'm looking a zoos, toadstools, shrooms and hammer corals so nothing overly difficult, I was hoping to get away with  3-4 bulbs I should mention that the tank will be 100x40x50 cm (lxwxh) I'm pretty sussed on the equipment it's just the light requirements tripping me up.
What's your thoughts on test kits? 
I think planted marine was discussed on the barr report and you still have to be careful with the nutrients as the marine environment is alot more sensitive


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## foxfish (28 Sep 2014)

You also need to think about a chiller if you are using 4 x T5s under a hood.


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## GlassWalker (28 Sep 2014)

Of those corals I believe the hammer is the one that would be most sensitive to water parameters. I don't have one myself, but believe they don't need the highest of light levels. Softies tend to be pretty tolerant, although not all are.

Test kit wise, at a minimum you need a way to measure salinity (typically a refractometer), KH/alkalinity, and calcium (I use salifert for both of those). Regular water changes can replenish consumed minerals initially, but as consumption increases you will need to start dosing between changes too. You should also have some RO on standby to top up evaporation to help keep salinity stable. I use sodium bicarbonate for KH, and calcium chloride for calcium. Both are commonly available food grade which is what I use. If you want ultra-pure grade you can get that too, at a price.

During initial setup/cycling you might want ammonia and nitrite tests too, although with good quality rock you might never see a cycle. On two tanks I started with live rock from LFS I never detected any ammonia or nitrite.

You can certainly look at a macro-algae planted tank. My livestock will consume it though so not an option for me.


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## OllieNZ (28 Sep 2014)

Thanks,
The entire back of the hood is open and has about 4" gap between the glass covers and the lid, I'll stick a couple of fans on the back if needed.

I wont be doing macros in the display but I may put some cheato in the sump, the idea of spending money on chemical filtration when you can do the same thing naturally seems daft.
I haven't really considered stocking yet....


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## Tim Harrison (28 Sep 2014)

I feel about reef tanks the same way I felt about planted tanks when I got back in to them about 3 years ago. So much changed in my absence, of about 25 years or so, that the hobby was almost unrecognizable.
In the case of both planted tanks and especially reef tanks manufacturers have been quick to develop an infinite bounty of gizmos that I never knew I needed...go figure

My reef tanks thrived with just a basic canister filter, a power head, reverse flow under-gravel filtration, and a protein skimmer. And, of most relevance to the OP concerning lighting, T12 tubes. If I remember rightly a couple of north lights and a growlux. And I don't think I changed them out very often at all over a period of several years...

I guess zooxathellae, whilst I'm sure there are optimum conditions they prefer, are like all plants - they can adapt to various lighting conditions...that is within certain parameters.
But then its been a while so I maybe comfabulating...


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## foxfish (28 Sep 2014)

I was running a sump and trickle filter 25 years ago on my first reef tank, coupled up with MH lighting.
I had my share of disasters but it was the most advanced method of the time.
I think it was RO water that really made a difference.
Overall I enjoyed showing off my tanks but to be honest I always found keeping them pretty stressful a lot of the time!
The most spectacular and enjoyable was a cold water reef I kept for about two years but the chiller running flat-out day and night  got the better of me!
I am always thinking about another cold water tank made from insulated material and thick acrylic or double glazed front but it probably  won't happen.....


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## OllieNZ (30 Sep 2014)

foxfish said:


> I was running a sump and trickle filter 25 years ago on my first reef tank, coupled up with MH lighting.
> I had my share of disasters but it was the most advanced method of the time.
> I think it was RO water that really made a difference.
> Overall I enjoyed showing off my tanks but to be honest I always found keeping them pretty stressful a lot of the time!
> ...


Sounds interesting, how cold is cold?


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## foxfish (30 Sep 2014)

14-15c is good for local marine.
I live pretty close to the sea (about 500m) so I was in a good position to collect & return creatures.
I had a great system where I used two rotating back drops in the tank, one was kept in the sea & one in my tank so, every so often, I could exchange them for a fresh look. I made up two perforated plastic sheets covered with volcanic rock that could be removed from the tank.
I also used water straight from the sea, about 20% every two weeks, this water would always contain huge amounts of sea life that fed the more demanding fish like pipefish or Cornish lumpsuckers  or butterfish.
I kept several corals & some absolutely amazing anemones plus the most beautiful juvenile wrasse, in fact the livestock was for ever changing as I regularly returned creatures to the wild & bought something new home.
Although locale marine tanks are not that uncommon, very few people actually go to the trouble & expense of using a titanium chiller & believe me that makes all the difference from a basic looking tank with ailing creatures to a spectacular breath taking display!!
I don't really have any pictures of that particular tank, there plenty on the net though... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...ion.com%2Ft472-my-coldwater-reef-tank;600;400


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