# Dom's First Vivarium! 24x18x13



## Dominic (28 Aug 2014)

Right, after a few months of thinking and considering getting a vivarium for some dart frogs, I've made the decision- I'M GONNA DO IT! 

I am beyond excited about this vivarium, and this will be documented from the very beginning stages. Right now, it's just an ordinary ROMA 90 aquarium and cabinet. I thought about getting some of the actual vivariums, rather than an aquarium, but after looking at some 'aquarium vivariums', and a very generous opportunity arose from a friend getting rid of his fish tank, which also happened to be the perfect size for a first vivarium, I took it! 

Note the Lynx can for scale  


I will be asking lots of questions and asking for lots of opinions along the way.
First thing is the lighting and lid. The lid needs to be clear, so i can suspend the lighting a little more. I'm planning on getting a glass pane cut a couple of inches shorter than needed so i can install vents- one at the front, and one at the back, so I can feed the humidifier through it etc. I will be getting a 'frame' to suspend the light from. 


Also, the light is 30W, and the paludarium is just under 20gallons, so thats like 1.5 watts per gallon- does this seem adequate? Or should I upgrade the lighting? 


That's all for now, I will update with pictures as the build progresses, and I hope that in the end that this will be an interesting, informative, and helpful read for everyone!  

Dom 

Thank god i've still got my old redmoor root wood left over from my Jar of Honey, I spent a good couple of hours searching for the perfect piece of driftwood for my tank, but its real tough finding places that sell decent pieces of driftwood over in the UK! But it turns out, my redmoor was close enough!

I wanted long, broad branchy pieces which could create balconies etc for the darts to climb. I placed them into my tank today, and i think that it looks alright! If i go ahead with this layout, it will be integrated into a 3D background made out of GS expanding foam etc, so that i can create a mini waterfall running down the centre of the two pieces, and into a shallow 'puddle' which will be going around half of the tank. I have done some very simple drawings to explain my ideas! 

Please do tell me what you think! Any changes to layout, plant layout, anything!

The layout-


A very crude drawing, but you get the idea!


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## Crossocheilus (28 Aug 2014)

Sounds awesome! Not quite a planted aquarium but I think we'll let you off this time kidding aside I've always loved the look of vivariums,  if a planted fish tank is a slice of a tropical stream, this will be a slice of a tropical rainforest, sounds pretty cool! I know nothing about vivariums but I know when one is pretty and judging by the success of the Jar of Honey this should be no disappointment 

Good luck and enjoy!



Crossocheilus said:


> but I know when one is pretty



This sounds arrogant and like I know what I'm doing...


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## Dominic (29 Aug 2014)

Haha cheers man! At first i was contemplating whether to post it or not, but after seeing a couple more vivarium builds on here.... whats one more  And yes, i've always loved the idea of recreating nature in a 'glass box'. Something that's stuck with me ever since being small. I am still in the process of learning about vivariums, and it is an ongoing project so i will be adding little bit by little bit until i get there! 

Cheers man i will! 



Crossocheilus said:


> This sounds arrogant and like I know what I'm doing...



Don't worry about it haha, i think everyone on this site has that knack! Haha!


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## TOO (29 Aug 2014)

Will be good to follow. Vivariums have a lot of scaping potential and should be of interest to people here.

Are you planning to keep frogs in it? If so, you really need to think about how you solve the top lid problem. This should fulfill two criteria: (a) be absolutely tight fitting to prevent frog escapes and, importantly, fruit fly escapes; (b) and allow for good ventilation (in an aquarium ventilation can only go through the top). In some ways these criteria tend to counteract each other. This is why most frog keepers use enclosures that open at the front rather than at the top. 

I am not saying it cannot be done, in fact in the US many use aquaria for vivaria. I just wanted to mention, in order to avoid future problems, that this is probably the most essential part in the planning process. Good luck and looking forward to seeing it progress.

Thomas


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## parotet (29 Aug 2014)

Hi Diminic

I'm jealous man... Wow, this a good gift from a friend! As you know I am lately toying with vivaria. My experience is short but I have read quite a lot during the last months to prepare mine (micro vivaria, no animals). First of all I recommend a short visit to a Flickr group called Naturalistic Vivaria, Full Tank Shots. It is a kind of compilation of brilliant vivaria and quite a lot of them are fish tanks converted. See comments there, plenty of information. You will notice that it is not even necessary to drill any walls, probably have a good vent on the lid and of course run some PC vents. Some drills on the lid for the mist system would be also useful. You will read in many vivarium forums that good passive ventilation + good internal circulation = healthy frogs and plants.

Concerning the base it seems that dart frogs don't like very much moss or water, especially if you do not have a huge surface. You will see that most dart frog keepers use a layer of leaves, which provide hiding places for them and for their food (I.e. Springtails you will have to seed). Nevertheless there are awesome setups with little streams. If you do so, a draining system at the bottom would be useful, as water quality, like in planted tanks, is one of the secrets for success. If you just mist (automatic system or by hand) it won't be probably necessary to drill a drainage.

Finally concerning light, I have seen some websites with recommendations... But I guess light is not so important as in planted tanks. It will depend quite a lot on the plants you have. Most epiphytes need high light, I would take as a reference the wattage of some kits with similar volume and shape from Exoterra, Zoomed, etc. and then explore if you need more.

If I were you and with your knowledge about aquatic plants (we are lucky to come from planted tanks in that sense) I would explore the vast range of species we use that are not truly aquatic. Anubias, Cryptocoryne, Bolbitis, Azolla, Echinodorus, even some carpet plants would make a wonderful vivarium... They will probably need much more humidity but it will perfectly fit in the emersed aquatic plants UKAPS section! 

Subscribed!

Jordi


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## TOO (29 Aug 2014)

Nice pictures on that site, Jordi. The real attraction of vivaria (for people coming from our side of the hobby): no water change and no worrying about algae. The real drawback of vivaria (in my eyes): that you have to culture your own food, i.e. fruitflies and springtails. The latter is not always compatible with (harmonious) family life: wait till your wife finds 10 drowned fruitflies in her expensive red wine .

The challenge with the aquarium/vivarium is that your only point of access is through the top, so you need a construction where you can take off only part of the top lid, preferably at the front. If you take off the whole top lid when doing maintenance, non-eaten frutiflies will escape en masse and if you have arboreal frogs it is a total no go as you risk them jumping out. 

When I was in the hobby (I also used an old aquarium) I thought I found the magic answer by getting a thick acrylic plate that I split in two parts and drilled for ventilation holes. I soon realized this was a poor solution as acrylic warps pretty badly. Mind you, this was a 10mm piece! The tank was pretty big it has to be said, so might work on a smaller tank. 

In this absolutely gorgeous scape, Justin Grimm uses a top lid construction as I remember it. Check it out, if nothing else to confirm that you have made the right decision about getting into vivaria : http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula.html.

Thomas


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## parotet (29 Aug 2014)

I love Grimm's vivarium, one of my favorites... But it has a drainage (there is a very nice clip on YouTube about its construction where he explains everything in detail).
No experience on that but for live food, springtails seem to be the preferred one for many people: clean, self maintained population... And also accepted by fish! But I guess the tank should be perfectly closed.

I agree that doors on the front would make maintenance easier but it shouldn't be a constraint to make a wonderful vivarium (and I wouldn't be sure to break a Roma lol)

Jordi


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## dw1305 (29 Aug 2014)

Hi all, 
I'm always very tempted by these. 

Have you had a look at "Brian's Tropicals"? Well worth a browse around his basement for frog or fish breeders, and I'd definitly read this before starting: <http://www.brianstropicals.com/pages/Caring-for-frogs.html>.

He is a professor of microbiology as his "day job".

cheers Darrel


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## Dominic (29 Aug 2014)

I've already thought most of it out guys! I am planning on getting

-ADA style light frame going around the tank to suspend the light- I don't want the light in the actual tank, it would probably fry the frogs! Haha

-12mm Perspex/acrylic lid made a few inches shorter than needed so I can fit in two ventilation strips- one at the back and one at the front, one at the back being so that i can direct the humidifier through it, don't want any frogs climbing up the humidifier tube! If the humidity falls too low then i can cover the vents with a piece of plastic or something and swap to a fan if ventilation isn't enough. I can always change from acrylic to glass if it seems to begin warping 

-I am planning on adding a culture of springtails to the tank once it has been scaped, as for the fruit flies, I will buy a starter culture and figure out how to keep it going closer to the time that I get frogs.

Thomas, grimms viv is absolutely awesome! It is actually one of the inspirations of my viv, that and another one which I will link later as I am on my phone at the moment haha, I am hoping to combine the two styles.

And jordi, I have thought about the doors. I did think that a top-only access would make maintenance a little more difficult, but I can't get over the look of doors at the front! Kinda ruins the 'piece of nature in a box' effect for me, if you understand what I mean? And the two inspirations of my viv used the 'aquarium' vivarium which made me finally go for it, haha! By the way I will be making an egg crate false bottom for the viv, to stop water wicking into the substrate with fungus and bacteria buildup etc etc.

The water in the viv won't be much more than what is in grimms viv, just enough for the water feature and somewhere for the water to drain into.

One last thing- I am thinking of drilling the bottom to form an overflow under the false bottom, should i go for it?

And thanks darrel! I will check it out later when I get home pal


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## parotet (29 Aug 2014)

Dominic said:


> If the humidity falls too low then i can cover the vents with a piece of plastic or something and swap to a fan if ventilation isn't enough


As far as I know both things must be ensured: pasive ventilation (air renewal) and inside air movement with PC fans (to avoid stagnant air areas, mold, enhance evaporation to raise humidity, etc.)



Dominic said:


> One last thing- I am thinking of drilling the bottom to form an overflow under the false bottom, should i go for it?


 Good question... I am reading these days about this: I see folks running vivs like yours without drainage but my guess is that it will depend on how much you mist/rain and the evaporation rate (the water feature just recirculate what you have... but water from misting/rain systems come from a RO/destilled water container, thus it is a new addition). Coming from the world of planted tanks my bet would be to drill a drainage at the bottom (bottom or back at the bottom). If you need it you will have it, if you don't it will be closed. The only problem is that you drill the tank though it will be a viv forever (is this a problem? ). In my nano I've left some place to introduce a thin tubing attached to a siringe and I do frequent water changes.

Jordi


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## Dominic (29 Aug 2014)

So you think fans will be needed too? I will put up a post on dendroboard asking lol  Just to make sure! Fans can't cost that much anyway... can they? 

And if i drilled the bottom, it would be under the false bottom, with a piece of pvc siliconed over the hole. This means that once the water level raises OVER the height of the pvc tube, it will overflow over the top of the pvc and down through the hole in the middle of the pvc... if that makes sense? lol just tell me if it doesnt and ill draw something out or something for you! This means that once the viv is all set up and planted, i can never access it again! Well.. unless i siliconed a piece of glass over the hole from underneath! Haha! I am using it as a 'just in case' in terms of the substrate getting saturated with water leading to fungus etc  

If I drilled the tank, and wanted to use it as an aquarium later on, i could always silicone a piece of glass over the bottom  However I will be adding black silicone to the back and side of the tank, and expanding foam... so it would probably be a viv forever anyway!  Tank, cabinet, and lights only cost me £45 quid anyway, retails at like 300 quid! Haha! Bargain! 

I forgot to thank you guys in the last post for all your advice and input!


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## parotet (29 Aug 2014)

I'm pretty sure everyone will recommend fans which are quite cheap... Just ask  your friends if they are getting rid off computers or ask in your local computer store, they will have lots (unless you want to buy super silent ones). There are plenty of tutorials to know how to do it.
For the drainage I'm not really sure, Dendroboard will be a perfect place to ask for advice.. Will also keep subscribed to that thread 

Jordi


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## Henry (29 Aug 2014)

This is the kind of thing I've been thinking about doing for yonks. Subscribed!


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## TOO (29 Aug 2014)

I think drainage is useful if you have an automated misting system. If you just mist manually it is easy to control. The drain system just ensures that the water never rises above a specified level. Fans can be useful in an aquarium type viv because it is not possible to create a draft. In the standard vivs this is created through a ventilation area at the bottom and in the lid. The main reason to have fans would be to avoid the front pane having constant condensation. 

Thomas


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## Ryan Thang To (29 Aug 2014)

new one dominic. Subscribed!


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## parotet (29 Aug 2014)

Mate, you will like this... Fantastic and clean setup
http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-terrarium-enclosure-discussion/7007-custom-vivarium-build-log.html

Jordi


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## Dominic (29 Aug 2014)

parotet said:


> I'm pretty sure everyone will recommend fans which are quite cheap... Just ask  your friends if they are getting rid off computers or ask in your local computer store, they will have lots (unless you want to buy super silent ones). There are plenty of tutorials to know how to do it.
> For the drainage I'm not really sure, Dendroboard will be a perfect place to ask for advice.. Will also keep subscribed to that thread
> 
> Jordi


Are they computer fans!? Damn i didnt realise that! Haha, wouldnt they break from the excess water? Do you have any links to tutorials on how to make fans? 



TOO said:


> I think drainage is useful if you have an automated misting system. If you just mist manually it is easy to control. The drain system just ensures that the water never rises above a specified level. Fans can be useful in an aquarium type viv because it is not possible to create a draft. In the standard vivs this is created through a ventilation area at the bottom and in the lid. The main reason to have fans would be to avoid the front pane having constant condensation.
> 
> Thomas



I am planning on having an automatic fog machine/humidifier (not quite a misting system, right?) and i will be spraying manually too whenever it needs it. 
And cheers for the input! Will definitely look at fans now. Cheers!



parotet said:


> Mate, you will like this... Fantastic and clean setup
> http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-terrarium-enclosure-discussion/7007-custom-vivarium-build-log.html
> 
> Jordi


Thats a sweet looking viv pal, quickly flicked through and saw the diy fan bit. It looks pretty easy to make! I will have a proper look tomorrow evening after work when i have a little more time. 

By the way, these are my inspirations!

GRIMM's Peninsula-
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula-17.html

Flyingsquirrel's 29g newt tank-
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...build-post-i-go-details-very-pic-heavy-6.html


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