# 120cm Nature Aquarium



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

Hello everyone,

I will set out details of my aquascape below, which was first flooded on 26/04/2020 and, after several weeks of 'dark start' with a cycled filter running, first planted on 06/06/2020.

Thanks
Chris


----------



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

Here is a picture taken a couple of days ago and i will post some of the earlier shots as well.


----------



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

Aquarium 
L 120cm x D 53cm x H 50cm 12mm Opti-white glass
Frosted backing

Cabinet
`Kitchen unit reinforced and adapted

Lighting 
Fluval 3.0 Plant (46w)
2x Aquaray Grobeam 500 (12w each)
2x Aquaray Grobeam 600 (12w each)
iQuatics light mounting system
2x LED strip backlights with WIFI

Filtration 
Eheim 2075 filled with Seachem Matrix with 1.2litre pre-filter filled with sponges and in-line Eheim universal pump 1200 ltrhr
Another filter as above to be added (currently on old aquarium)

Inflow-outflow 
Stainless steel inflow with surface skimmer and outflow pipe
Eheim double tap connectors
16/22mm PVC tubing

Heating 
Hydor in line heater
Inkbird ITC-306A WIFI controller

Carbon 
2kg CO2 fire extinguisher
CO2 Art Elite Regulator with solenoid (bubble counter removed)
UP Aqua in line atomiser (1 for each filter)
Aquasabi C02 splitter
Dwyer Instruments RMA-150-SSV flowmeter
C02 tubing

Fertiliser 
D-D P1 Dosing pump
TNC Complete

Water
Pumped reverse osmosis (TDS 7)
Remineralised with TNC GH Boost to GH 6, KH <2

Hardscape 
Fossilised wood stone
Manzanita branches

Substrate 
JBL Volcano Mineral (in filter media bags)
ADA Amazonia
Tropica Aquarium Soil Powder
ADA Colorado sand
ADA Aqua Gravel


----------



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

Anubius Nana MiniAnubius Nana Coin leafBolbitis Heteroclita Difformis (in-vitro)Bolbitis HeudelotiiBucephalandra ‘Caterina'Bucephalandra ‘Red'Bucephalandra ‘Theia Green'Bucephalandra ‘Wavy Green'Cryptocoryne Parva (in vitro)Cryptocoryne Wendtii ‘Tropica’Cryptocoryne Wendtii ‘Green’Cryptocoryne Wendtii ‘Mi Oya’Eleocharis Acicularis (in vitro)Eleocharis Acicularis Mini (in vitro)Fissidens FontanusHydrocotyle verticillataHygrophila Pinnatafida (in vitro)Limnophila Aromatica (in vitro)Limnophila SessilifloraLudwigia arcuata (in vitro)Ludwigia super red (in vitro)Micranthemum Monte Carlo (in vitro)Microsorum Pteropus ‘Trident’Nymphaea LotusRotala VietnamSalvinia AuriculataSchismatoglottis prietoiStaurogyne Repens (in vitro)Taxiphyllum Flame Moss (in vitro)Taxiphyllum Taiwan (in vitro)Vesicularia montagnei (in vitro)


----------



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

Unfortunately and very sadly I have lost many of the plants in the list above, I will expand on that in due course and hopefully someone can help me diagnose what is going wrong.


----------



## ChrisD80 (6 Jul 2020)

some early pics


----------



## kishan313 (7 Jul 2020)

The hard scape looks incredible!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CooKieS (7 Jul 2020)

Lovely technique to achieve height , nice scape well done , can’t wait to see it grow


----------



## ChrisD80 (7 Jul 2020)

Thanks @kishan313 and @CooKieS for the comments. The volcano filled filter bags worked well to provide a stable platform for the higher parts, and I used cotton wool and superglue the points where the rocks were touching, disguised by covering in ground up aqua soil.


----------



## ChrisD80 (7 Jul 2020)

Flooding for the first time:


I hooked up an established filter, put in the manzanita branches (tied in a bundle and weighted down) and covered over with blanket to keep out the light for what turned out to be six weeks. After this time ammonia and nitrite both read zero.


----------



## Jayefc1 (7 Jul 2020)

Beautiful scape love your cabinet mate


----------



## ChrisD80 (7 Jul 2020)

Trying out different branch arrangements. I did not glue the wood down at first because I wanted to be able to tie the moss on with cotton thread.


----------



## ChrisD80 (7 Jul 2020)

Planting was an all-nighter, as I had to start after the kids were asleep.


----------



## LondonDragon (7 Jul 2020)

Looking good so far, strange order of posting


CooKieS said:


> Lovely technique to achieve height , nice scape well done , can’t wait to see it grow


Have to agree, maybe I should have gotten some large boulders too!! 

Great start well done 👏


----------



## ChrisD80 (7 Jul 2020)

Thanks @LondonDragon 
sorry if its confusing I am new to forums and journals. I thought I would post a recent shot first (like a book front cover) and then go back to the start and show some photos leading up to today.
I will soon explain the regime / settings I am using for lighting, fertiliser, CO2 etc.


----------



## DeepMetropolis (8 Jul 2020)

Looking good, love that rock work! 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

Thank you @Jayefc1 and @DeepMetropolis for your kind words


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

So my original set up from memory was as follows:
*Lighting* - Fluval 3.0 on for 9.5 hours of which 4.5 hours at 100% intensity
Aquaray Grobeams each on for approx 3-4hrs in the middle of the photoperiod
*C02* on for approx 7 hrs, about 90min before main light period - 10cc/min - dropchecker light green
*Fertiliser* - TNC Complete 12ml
*Water* - Weekly water change 50% using RO remineralised with GH boost to 4/5dGH
*Temp* 24degC


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

A couple of days after planting


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

About 2 weeks in, it was looking promising.


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

But then, first sign of trouble. When performing a water change I noticed that one of the bucephalandra had completely melted down to the rhizome. At this time the weather was quite hot and the water temperature was over 28 degC, not sure if this was part of the problem.


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

and others followed soon after.

The Staurogyne Repens and Crypt Parva completely melted away without a trace, as did several of the stem varieties. Out of the four Buce, just two remain in tact but not looking healthy at all. The Monte Carlo is barely hanging on and even the ever-reliable Crypt Wendtii from my original tank were not looking good. Some of the mini hairgrass has been lost and most of the Hydrocotyle Verticillata. The smaller bolbitis in vitro has melted away to almost nothing and the Trident Java Fern is not doing great.

Conversely the mosses, Hygro pinnatafida and some of the stems are doing well along with of course the floating plants.


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

And what I presume to be diatoms were starting to emerge and have continued to spread across most surfaces (glass, wood, rocks and lots on the sand) and many of the plants, only diminished by the cleaning and siphoning during maintenance sessions. 
Here is a recent pic of some on the wood.


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

and on the moss:


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

This has been quite distressing to say the least. Having read through some threads on UKAPS I decided to reduce lighting and increase CO2 and flow. I turned off one of the Aquaray and limited the other to just 1 hour. I added an Eheim Stream-On 4000 circulation powerhead alongside the filter outlet and this has resulted in nearly all the plants swaying and the stems at the back were almost pushed over. I upped the CO2 injection rate to about 15cc/min and brought forward the switch on time to 3hr before lights hit 100%.

I saw some members asking for a pH profile so one day I took readings every 30 minutes:


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

I get the feeling something is seriously wrong but I am not sure what it is. I have read that diatoms are common with a new set up and perhaps I just need to wait it out, but i feel that I should make changes to improve things. Every day I worry that another plant will start to deteriorate and then fade away.

*so if anyone has any thoughts and can offer advice please it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks*


----------



## hypnogogia (13 Jul 2020)

I’m confused as to why your drop checker is staying blue despite the 1ph drop.


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Jul 2020)

hi @hypnogogia when i look at it in person I wouldn't say its blue, definitely green. Here is another pic with better lighting that I took the other day (about 17:00):


----------



## Onoma1 (14 Jul 2020)

Its so dispiriting when this happens. I haven't got any quick solutions but these may be helpful for you:

Your dark start was for over six weeks with a cycled filter. The usual period seems to be two weeks. Could it be that the longer period was counter productive? 

Buce can bounce back after melting. Giving  it time, appropriate mineralisation and placing it in a shady place in the tank has worked for me. 

Staurogyne Repens can be difficult for some and easy for others. The forum is full of threads on the difficulties people have experienced with it. Increasing CO2 seems to help a lot.

Hairgrass in my experience can take time to recover after planting. Some will die off and then recover rapidly. 

9.5 hours of light much of which isn't at full capacity seems too long and too little for a high energy tank. Cut it back to six or seven at full intensity until you get the growth you want.  Then tweak it. Don't use a ramp period just yet.

Diatoms seem to be a natural phase new tanks go through and tend to disappear with time.

Start your 'clean up crew' early on to  - shrimp snails and perferred algae eating fish to keep any other algae in check if and when it occurs.


----------



## steveno (14 Jul 2020)

Hiya Chris, I can certainly understand your frustration, this hobby bring both high and lows.

I cant offer much in the way of a solution i afraid, as you seem to be doing everything correctly, thou the suddenly peak in temperature recently may have attributed to your woes, i tend to keep my tanks around 22-24.

C02 and flow are the 2 biggest factors in a high tech, high light setup, and it seems you are address both these.

I too would be interested heard why you are struggling to get the drop checker to change colour as well, as I'm struggle with the same issue. I don't use RO water as my water straight from tap is soft. Your ph drop would suggest that you are providing sufficient C02, but if you are not already doing I have also been advised to also check you KH through out the day too, this should give you a better idea of your C02 level using table below.





Such a lovely scape, I hope you manage to find a solution.


----------



## Nick72 (14 Jul 2020)

Hi @ChrisD80

Here are some thoughts.

You're drop checker solution doesn't look right to me.  I would throw it out and try a new one. 

Your PH of 6.5 is pretty low.  I'd like to know what you KH is.  It could be that your KH and therefore your PH buffer is close to zero, and this may give you an unstable PH.  I have some experience with this.

Alternatively it could be that your aquarium soil is formulated to lower your PH?

In either case low PH makes CO2 more difficult.  You will notice the above chart supplied by @steveno  only goes down to 6PH.

You will also notice that the lower your KH the larger a PH drop you need to reach 30ppm CO2.   Where most people aim for a 1 point PH drop, people like myself with a KH of 1 often need a bigger PH drop, 1.4 in my case to reach 30ppm.

So it's very possible, depending on your KH, that you are not injecting enough CO2.


It's true that most plants prefer temps of 22-24c, but it is possible to grow most in higher temperatures.  My tank is never lower than 28.5 and often hotter.   If you have a way to keep your aquarium a little cooler I would, but if like me this is impractical, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Lastly, plants don't care what your KH is, but your GH matters.  My tap ranges from 1-3GH and I found nothing would grow in it.  I now add calcium and magnesium and aim for 8GH.

I would says 6-10GH is about perfect for 95% of plants.  That said I made an error and ended up with 21GH - plants loved it because I still had a 4:1 Calcium to Magnesium ratio, and they certainly had enough of both.

Let us know what you get for KH and GH readings, and while you're there Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate would be extremely useful, and we can go from there.


----------



## ChrisD80 (14 Jul 2020)

Hello @Onoma1, @steveno and @Nick72. Thank you very much for your replies, appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts.



Onoma1 said:


> Your dark start was for over six weeks with a cycled filter. The usual period seems to be two weeks. Could it be that the longer period was counter productive?


Yes I had successfully cycled after two or three weeks but unfortunately due to supply shortages for plants at the aquascaping stores (due to corona virus) and other factors I was unable to plant until a few weeks later. I am not sure whether this extended period has had adverse effects.



Onoma1 said:


> Buce can bounce back after melting. Giving it time, appropriate mineralisation and placing it in a shady place in the tank has worked for me.


The first one to melt I have pretty much given up on, its in a terrible state but I have a slim hope the others may come back in time. Although they are super glued in place so moving them to shadier spots may be problematic.



Onoma1 said:


> Hairgrass in my experience can take time to recover after planting. Some will die off and then recover rapidly.


I have not yet trimmed the hair grass, do you think this would help? I have moth mini and normal varieties and i estimate them to be approx 5cm high.



Onoma1 said:


> 9.5 hours of light much of which isn't at full capacity seems too long and too little for a high energy tank. Cut it back to six or seven at full intensity until you get the growth you want. Then tweak it. Don't use a ramp period just yet.


Okay I will make the changes you suggest, I am not sure whether for now just to go with the Fluval 3.0? or should i go with the Grobeam Aquarays as well (there are  4 of them at 12W each)?



Onoma1 said:


> Start your 'clean up crew' early on to - shrimp snails and perferred algae eating fish to keep any other algae in check if and when it occurs.


I have one Otto at the moment but will definitely add more once I can get to the LFS.  I have also had two Amano shrimp in there for two weeks or so but noticed a couple of days ago mid-afternoon that they were lying on the sand on their backs and one was having what appeared to be a fit. I presumed this to be CO2 related so I moved them up near the surface, increased the surface agitation and turned the CO2 off for the day. They were ok that evening. The CO2 came back on the following day per solenoid schedule and they were suffering again in the afternoon so I have moved them back to the old aquarium for now. I have had those shrimp for something like 7/8 years. They have been subjected to CO2 for a long time (at perhaps slightly lower levels (10cc/min) and they were absolutely fine so not sure what's going on. I returned my two old SAE to the LFS a few weeks ago since they were 5/6 inches long and too big for the new scape. I will also look into getting some Nerite/Clithon snails, but not sure they will like the soft water.


----------



## ChrisD80 (14 Jul 2020)

steveno said:


> I too would be interested heard why you are struggling to get the drop checker to change colour as well, as I'm struggle with the same issue. I don't use RO water as my water straight from tap is soft. Your ph drop would suggest that you are providing sufficient C02, but if you are not already doing I have also been advised to also check you KH through out the day too, this should give you a better idea of your C02 level using table below.





Nick72 said:


> You're drop checker solution doesn't look right to me. I would throw it out and try a new one.


I agree the photo collage of the drop checker is not great at showing a colour change, but in person I do observe a change. I have several drop checkers so I will empty the current contents and refill some with some pH solution from my API test kit and some with the original liquid I have been using. I can take some more photos through the day to see if it reveals anything.



Nick72 said:


> Your PH of 6.5 is pretty low. I'd like to know what you KH is. It could be that your KH and therefore your PH buffer is close to zero, and this may give you an unstable PH. I have some experience with this.
> 
> Alternatively it could be that your aquarium soil is formulated to lower your PH?
> 
> ...


I am using ADA Amazonia aqua soil topped with Tropica Aquarium soil powder so I was expecting to have a pH on the lower side, and pH 6.5 was not a surprise. I believe my KH to be low, less than 2. Its hard to tell the colour using the API titration test kit as 1/2 drops is such a diluted solution.



Nick72 said:


> Lastly, plants don't care what your KH is, but your GH matters. My tap ranges from 1-3GH and I found nothing would grow in it. I now add calcium and magnesium and aim for 8GH.
> 
> I would says 6-10GH is about perfect for 95% of plants. That said I made an error and ended up with 21GH - plants loved it because I still had a 4:1 Calcium to Magnesium ratio, and they certainly had enough of both.
> 
> Let us know what you get for KH and GH readings, and while you're there Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate would be extremely useful, and we can go from there.


I am remineralising GH with every water change, but I figured the aquasoil will eat any KH I were to add so I don't remineralise for that.

I will take KH, GH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings and get back to you.

Thanks again all for your help.

Cheers
Chris


----------



## ChrisD80 (20 Jul 2020)

About six weeks in now.
Pics shot before maintenance. 
Nymphaea Lotus has reached the surface and has about seven leaves now, some 15cm+ in diameter. Central stems are doing well, will need to be trimmed. Pinnatifida and mosses continue to grow at a good rate.
Still plagued by diatoms everywhere, with some green algae developing on the rock and few tufts of BBA on the wood,
Second of the schismatoglostis has now melted  A few strands of Monte Carlo remain, but several of the Eleocharis acicularis mini have been lost.


----------



## ChrisD80 (20 Jul 2020)

Nick72 said:


> Let us know what you get for KH and GH readings, and while you're there Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate would be extremely useful, and we can go from there.



Here are the test results, taken just before weekly water change:

GH 8
KH 1-2
Ammonia 0-0.25ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 10-20ppm
Thanks
Chris


----------



## ChrisD80 (20 Jul 2020)

And thanks to @hypnogogia and @Nick72 for commenting on my drop checkers and the C02 reagent i was using.
When I compare my old liquid (on the left) to the API PH test bottle (on the right), it is evident that something is wrong with it.
I look forward to seeing what happens to the drop checkers now that I have the right stuff!


----------



## Nick72 (21 Jul 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Here are the test results, taken just before weekly water change:
> 
> GH 8
> KH 1-2
> ...



Hi Chris,

Your readings are good and certainly not the cause of any of your issues.

That said your combined low PH with low KH are a PH crash waiting to happen.

You may go months without issue, then one day your PH will crash and kill everything in your tank.

I would work to get a stable 4KH, this will push your PH closer to 7, so a win all round.

With regards to your algae the best advice and quickest win is to add Excel every day.  Not only now that you have algae, but every day the tank is running.  It makes a big difference, but may take several weeks before its obvious.

The final step is to introduce a clean up crew.  Shrimp, Nerite Snails are fine but I find you can't beat fish, and I recommend them in this order of effectiveness:

Garra Flavatra (Panda Garra)
Siamese Algae Eater 
Otocinclus
Bristle Nose Pleco

You need to tune your lights and nutrients to reduce 80% of your algae issue (which I think you have already done).

Daily Excel will take you to 90%.

The clean up crew will get you over the line at 95% algae free.

No one is constantly algae free. So the last 5% is vigilance and maintenance.


----------



## ChrisD80 (23 Jul 2020)

Thank you [mention]Nick72 [/mention].

I am persevering with tuning the lights, CO2, flow and nutrients. Still not there yet 
I will definitely give Excel a go.

Regarding the cleanup crew I actually recently returned some mature SAE from my old aquarium because they are so large. I had not heard of Panda Garra before but looks like that gets pretty big also. I will be going for small fish in this scape so would look out of proportion. I suppose I could buy a young one and perhaps return to the store once it gets too big? I will be sure to get plenty more Otocinclus.

Cheers 
Chris 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nick72 (24 Jul 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Thank you [mention]Nick72 [/mention].
> 
> I am persevering with tuning the lights, CO2, flow and nutrients. Still not there yet
> I will definitely give Excel a go.
> ...




Hi Chris,

Panda Garra max out at 3.5 inches, although going by my one they are very slow growers - and I suspect most don't actually make 3 inches.

From my experience you can't beat a Panda Garra, I'd say 1x Panda Garra does the clean up job of 8x Otocinclus.   I would get one Panda Garra plus your group of Otocinclus.

I only have one in my tank, but wouldn't be without him.  He cleans the glass, scrubs the pipework meticulously, when not cleaning algae from the leaves and substrate, and has a fantastic playful character.

There's no way one would look out of place in your four foot tank.


----------



## ChrisD80 (24 Jul 2020)

Thanks for the advice [mention]Nick72 [/mention] , hoping to go to LFS this weekend so will take a look to see if they have any


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DeepMetropolis (24 Jul 2020)

Do the gara eat bba and doesn't he eat moss? 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk


----------



## Nick72 (24 Jul 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Do the gara eat bba and doesn't he eat moss?
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk



To my knowledge only SAE will eat BBA.

A Panda Garra will not eat moss.


----------



## ChrisD80 (29 Jul 2020)

At the weekend I brought home this little fella:
<iframe src="" width="640" height="564" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>
and he has been doing an amazing job cleaning the rockwork,
But...
He has been using his spare time trying to escape. As a precaution I lowered the water so that it was about 6cm below the rim of the glass and even so, using his sucker mouth, he manages to climb up the glass so his body is completely out of the water with his nose right at the rim. This is too stressful for me to watch and I imagine its only a matter of time before he's jumped out and is down on the carpet.
So regretfully he has been moved to my old aquarium which has a cover and he will have to be returned to the shop.

There were no Otocinclus in stock at the LFS due to the global situation, and no clithon snails either, but I bought 3 nerite snails. I have re-introduced a pair of Amano shrimp and will see how they do with the CO2 this time, with an intention to add many more if they do ok.

Another option I thought might be a possibility is a hillstream loach, has anyone any experience with this species in open top aquariums?


----------



## ChrisD80 (29 Jul 2020)

In other news...

I have still been suffering badly from algae: Brown fluffy stringy algae (diatoms) on everything, black brush algae on the upper parts of the manzanita branches, blue green algae on the sand and some of the moss and staghorn algae on some of the stems at the back. It feels like although the aquarium has plenty of circulation and flow overall, the clouds of brown algae are restricting local flow around the plants so they do not receive the benefit of CO2.

In response I have been doing maintenance at least twice a week, siphoning out as much as I can, removing affected leaves, using a toothbrush etc.

I have now removed all dying/struggling plants including the Monte Carlo and some of the stems to reduce the density of plants at the back and allow for more water movement.

I have also added the second filter and re-positioned the circulation pump.

With my last water change I used part tap water with the RO to introduce some KH, but not sure whether this will remain with the active substrate.

The mosses and hairgrass received their first trims, and I used the moss clippings to cover small pieces of rock, wrapped in cotton thread.


----------



## Tom Ryan (@aquascaperay) (5 Aug 2020)

Looking great!!


----------



## Onoma1 (9 Aug 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> I have also had two Amano shrimp in there for two weeks or so but noticed a couple of days ago mid-afternoon that they were lying on the sand on their backs and one was having what appeared to be a fit. I presumed this to be CO2 related so I moved them up near the surface, increased the surface agitation and turned the CO2 off for the day. They were ok that evening. The CO2 came back on the following day per solenoid schedule and they were suffering again in the afternoon so I have moved them back to the old aquarium for now. I have had those shrimp for something like 7/8 years. They have been subjected to CO2 for a long time (at perhaps slightly lower levels (10cc/min) and they were absolutely fine so not sure what's going on



Could this indicate that you are having a rapid PH drop with injection of CO2? Perhaps buffering your water may help resolve this and improve plant growth. I am not an expert, but those people who are told me to focus on plant growth not just removal of algae.


----------



## Onoma1 (9 Aug 2020)

The advice given to me by @alto when in a similar position was as follows:

"When you see such algae infested leaves, remove as they aren’t contributing anything “net” to the plant but rather costing energy to maintain

Add 12 or so Clithon corona snails as they will eat the bba in the early stages (mature bba is definitely tougher/possibly “bad” tasting), try to find a shop that knows their snails are Clithon species & not simply “Nerite” species

Adding additional shrimp will likely also help especially if you have significant algae - watch shrimp to see what they are eating ... there are some “like” Amano shrimp that are actually better bba consumers
Don’t feed any additional food during this time

While combating algae, increase water changes, 50% daily if possible - clearing away any debris

Check filter for debris as well (likely weekly check of fine mechanical filter media is often enough) - check ASAP though if this isn’t something you’ve done recently

pH profile - I’ve not done one in years, if you have the kits/pH checker go ahead, if your budget is a consideration, then just leave this for now ... you can increase CO2 & observe plants, shrimp

Definitely adjust light - possibly dim (depending), reduce photoperiod to 5-6 h but also note ambient light about tank"

Following @dw1305 advice on adding magnesium dramatically improved the growth of my Buce.

I would add floating plants and use the duckweed index...

Love your scapes and good luck.


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Aug 2020)

Onoma1 said:


> Could this indicate that you are having a rapid PH drop with injection of CO2? Perhaps buffering your water may help resolve this and improve plant growth. I am not an expert, but those people who are told me to focus on plant growth not just removal of algae.



Hi [mention]Onoma1 [/mention] thanks for your comment.

I am not sure what the exact science behind the shrimp suffering was, you may be right. At the moment I have CO2 set a little lower than it was back then and still achieving desired drop checker colour. I have since reintroduced those shrimp and just a few days ago increased numbers to around 24 I think. They are all looking fine now. It’s just them and one Otocinclus in the tank now so I am not feeding any food in the hope that they get hungry and start having an impact on the diatoms. I feel like I need to add more shrimp though, I think I remember someone mentioning one shrimp per 5litres of water. Unfortunately I am still unable to source any Otocinclus or Clithon Corona from my LFS as they don’t have them
In stock.

With regards to buffering, I am using aqua soil which has a buffering effect. Not sure if that’s what you mean?

I agree about the focus plant growth and will do my best to help them grow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Aug 2020)

[mention]Onoma1 [/mention] Thank you for passing on the advice from [mention]alto [/mention] it all looks sound and I am already or intend follow these approaches at least directionally (when possible).

I am cutting away algae infested leaves where I can. It’s a bit tricky to do this on the stems, which are looking good at the top but speckled with brown lower down. 

See post above re Shrimp and snail ambitions.

I currently have reduced lighting to just the Fluval 3.0 unit set at about 80% intensity for 7hrs with a short ramp at either end.

Have reduced TNC dosing to 10ml per day now.

I am doing water changes on average about twice a week now. However using a pumped RO system is not as quick a process as refilling with tap water so more frequent will be difficult and unsustainable for me in the longer term. 

I have a couple of floating plant species which were completely taking over the surface so I kept decanting to my old aquarium. But I think I will let the populations build up again.

I am not sure about my magnesium levels. I assume there is some in my GH booster and some in the tap water that I use to cut the RO. I think the buce suffered at the beginning because my lighting was too high and CO2 and flow too low. Some of the plants have started putting out new leaves and showing signs of recovery but it’s fair to say that overall they don’t look great. The first ones that melted have never recovered. If and when I get the tank to settle down I will look to put in some fresh specimens and keep my fingers crossed.

Cheers
Chris 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Aug 2020)

update:

To my eye the diatoms has been gradually reducing as the weeks went by, and so was the amount of BGA and BBA. I think this was a combination of my new settings: lower lighting, combined with higher flow and CO2 and the more frequent maintenance.

However I was away from home for a week and came back to some ugly scenes (see pics). A number of large fluffy clumps of brown algae, and widespread appearance of smaller blobs and strings of brown algae. Quite a lot of bolbitis and pinnatifida leaves covered in BBA. Patch of BGA in the middle of the sand and traces on some of the mosses. 

The water temperature whilst I was away was over 30 degC (vs my target 22 degC) which may not have helped. Especially the health of the mosses which had until now been doing well, and I understand prefer lower temperatures. 



















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Krzysztof 82 (Kris) (18 Aug 2020)

Hi Chris,

Just went through Your and members posts and my conclusion of this everything is, that main problem was to much nutrition and light at the beginning. With Amano shrimps having problems it looked like, there was to much CO2, which plant's could not use and produce oxygen for some reason. For sure drop checker/indicator was not helping with identification of the gas level. 
Looks like reduced light and nutrition are helping in Your situation. 
I do hope everything will go great from now on. Hardscape looks amazing. 
Good luck and fingers crossed. 

Regards.


----------



## Onoma1 (18 Aug 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> update:
> 
> To my eye the diatoms has been gradually reducing as the weeks went by, and so was the amount of BGA and BBA. I think this was a combination of my new settings: lower lighting, combined with higher flow and CO2 and the more frequent maintenance.
> 
> ...



I think you are in good company in relation to the effect of the heat. Given that we didn't reach the high temperatures in the North of England that you experienced in the south
 ( and could only look on enviously) it wasn't such an issue for me, however, lots of people seemed to be struggling cooling tanks and then dealing with algae blooms when water temperatures increased.

It looks though that before this you got your tank into balance and I am sure you will again. It looks an amazing tank!


----------



## rebel (18 Aug 2020)

Wow 30c would cook mosses and even some of those plants. Count yourself lucky.

Those filamentous diatoms can be easily killed by peroxide if you wished.


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Aug 2020)

Krzysztof 82 (Kris) said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> Just went through Your and members posts and my conclusion of this everything is, that main problem was to much nutrition and light at the beginning. With Amano shrimps having problems it looked like, there was to much CO2, which plant's could not use and produce oxygen for some reason. For sure drop checker/indicator was not helping with identification of the gas level.
> Looks like reduced light and nutrition are helping in Your situation.
> ...



Thanks [mention]Krzysztof 82 (Kris) [/mention] 
I suspect you are right with your conclusions. Wish I could turn back time and start off again, but I guess these experiences are how we learn. Not sure I have things exactly as they should just yet be but I will keep going.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Aug 2020)

Onoma1 said:


> I think you are in good company in relation to the effect of the heat. Given that we didn't reach the high temperatures in the North of England that you experienced in the south
> ( and could only look on enviously) it wasn't such an issue for me, however, lots of people seemed to be struggling cooling tanks and then dealing with algae blooms when water temperatures increased.
> 
> It looks though that before this you got your tank into balance and I am sure you will again. It looks an amazing tank!



Yes it’s crazy that I am now wishing for cold weather when the rest of the population are wanting the sun! 

The strange and annoying thing is that now it’s cooler outside, the house is not heated and the room thermostat says 23 degC the aquarium is up around 25 degC. The aquarium heater is not on and the lighting is set at a relatively low level. Puzzled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Aug 2020)

rebel said:


> Wow 30c would cook mosses and even some of those plants. Count yourself lucky.
> 
> Those filamentous diatoms can be easily killed by peroxide if you wished.



Hi [mention]rebel [/mention] 
Thanks for info. Some of the moss species fared worse than others. The vesicularia montagnei, my favourite of the three types, has suffered most turning brown in areas especially those lower layers close to the wood. whereas the taxiphyllum Taiwan is showing no real signs of harm.

I would be interested in treating the diatoms with peroxide to help me fight the war, do you have any advice? Are there any threads that I could read?

I have some 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide, is that what would be used?

Many thanks 
Chris 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rebel (19 Aug 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> I have some 11% food grade hydrogen peroxide, is that what would be used?


Yes but will need to dilute heavily. I can't remember the dosing but there are multiple threads. Halve what they recommend.

btw you can just pull some of those diatoms out manually or via siphon also. Safer.


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Aug 2020)

rebel said:


> Yes but will need to dilute heavily. I can't remember the dosing but there are multiple threads. Halve what they recommend.
> 
> btw you can just pull some of those diatoms out manually or via siphon also. Safer.


Having read several threads, there are a range of opinions on the subject.  I think for now I will give dosing the hydrogen peroxide a miss. Especially as things are looking relatively good at the moment.


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Aug 2020)

I re-did my pH profile the other day now that all drop checkers have fresh pH solution and to reflect current settings. The starting pH at 6.9 is higher than previously (6.5) I believe because I have been mixing in some tap water with the RO to give a little more KH. 

CO2 is currently on for 6.5hrs and lighting for about 6hrs including short ramps at either end (Fluval 3.0 set at 80% intensity).

I measured a 0.9 drop and a stable pH through the photo period, I am happy as I believe this is what people recommend?

Looking at the schedule below now though, I think the CO2 is coming on a little early so have since moved back by 30 min, so it now starts at 13:00 and ends at 19:30.


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Aug 2020)

Latest shots:

_Limnophila Aromatica_ looking better now. I cleared out most of the other species from this area a few weeks ago to give these stems more space to receive flow and keep combing fingers through them to dislodge diatoms.




Regular pruning has given compact growth in this piece of _Hygrophila Pinnatifida_ .




_Fissidens Fontanus_, still on its wire mesh, is growing and with time getting more green and less brown as diatoms reduce.







Terrible image quality but this shows the *Schismatoglottis* *Prietoi* showing new growth after all the original leaves melted away.
I think I may buy one of the clip on macro lenses for my iPhone to allow me to take close ups.




Letting the quantity of surface plants increase again.




Flame moss, still with some detritus but much better with respect to diatoms.




Taiwan moss fared best in the recent heatwave.




I removed the brown parts of _vesicularia montagnei _and tied the greener parts back on the branches with cotton thread. Hope it pulls through and regains its previous health.




_Cryptocoryne_ starting to show some growth.




Last remains of monte carlo, hanging on in there.




Poor _bucephalandra_. I dare not cut off these leaves with BBA or it will have hardly any left.




_Bolbitis Heudloti_ still struggling.




_Anubias_ are doing ok, minor traces of algae.




And a new one from Riverwood Aquatics still in pot acclimating, if this does ok I will add several more.


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Aug 2020)

And a full tank shot:
The java ferns are _Microsorum Pteropus_ 'Narrow', which were added to the scape several weeks ago now. Health so far is much better than the 'Trident' fern which was part of the original planting.




Note: Aquaray Grobeam light used for photographic purposes. Not used for plant growth at present.


----------



## ChrisD80 (26 Aug 2020)

Update:

Happy to report there are very little if any diatoms now. It makes a massive physiological difference to me not to be confronted by the brown sludge any more! And no BGA seen for a good few days. Just tiny traces of BBA here and there on Hygrophila pinnatafida leaves, which I am cutting off.

I hope I am not calling success too early, but it feels overall to be in a much better place now.

Not sure what to conclude in terms of cause and effect. The improvement may be due to one or more of these factors:
- thorough twice weekly maintenance, including 80% water changes
- passing through a phase. I understand that diatoms are a phase common to new set ups. Fingers crossed that phase is now over. For the record it’s been 11weeks since original planting and first switch on of the lights.
- increased Amano shrimp population. Over 20 in there now hard at work
- results showing in time from continued application of lower light, increase flow and tweaked CO2 / fertiliser levels 
- lower temperatures

Anyway thank you very much to all who have offered advice on my journey to this point. You have really helped me turn things around.

Looking ahead I have purchased a few new plant species to try out, which are acclimating in their pots for the moment. And hoping to add more but still finding ‘out of stock’ on most plants across many of the UK online shops.

And will hopefully soon be adding in the fish which have been quarantining in the old aquarium for several weeks now. I have been holding off their introduction because I can presently avoid feeding so the shrimp and single Otto are more hungry for algae. Also somewhat nervous of the new fish jumping out with no top on the aquarium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (9 Sep 2020)

Happy to report pretty much no visible algae for several weeks now, and I have relaxed back to one water change per week.

Several new plants acclimating in their pots at the moment to be planted out soon. 
- Plenty of Anubias, (it’s interesting to compare the different small varieties e.g. mini, petite, bonsai in the flesh next to each other when you have purchased them based on the website descriptions) 
- couple of Bucephalandra to replace those I lost initially 

I have also bought some lava rock and broken it in to small pieces, to which I intend to secure the Anubias and Buce as well as moss trimmings. I hope the roots of the plants and the moss can gain a better purchase on the rough porous surface than they have managed on the petrified wood stone I have used so far.

And some stems to improve the back right hand side:
- Rotala rotundifolia
- limnophila hippuridoides 
- heteranthera zosterifolia (1-2 grow already planted)

Cheers 
Chris 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolf6 (9 Sep 2020)

Got any new pics for us?  We're curious to see the progress!


----------



## ChrisD80 (9 Sep 2020)

Two additional new plants I forgot to mention:
- Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
- Microsorum pteropus ‘petite’

Some pics to follow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (9 Sep 2020)

Some FTS, as you might expect it looks a mess at the moment...











The back right corner that I am not too happy with. Mostly Rotala Vietnam and a few stems of Limnophila Sessiliflora:





The Heteranthera that was planted maybe 10 days ago and is about 4x original size. Not yet been trimmed. I believe this can grow fast and become unruly but wanted to give it a go. Corvus Oscen on YouTube has some of this ‘star grass’ which is very compact and well behaved that I would love to replicate, but may need to up the light levels.





The branch going top right to bottom left has the Montagnei moss which fared badly during the heatwave. In the last maintenance session I took it all off, removed and discarded the brown sections and the greener parts were re applied with cotton thread. I have performed this on some of the other branches weeks ago but they still are not back to original health.





The Taiwan moss is fine, just trimmed:




An original Buce slowly growing bigger:




Rotala rotundifolia in pot. Clear to see the different shape of the submerged new leaves at the top compared to the emersed grown leaves at the bottom:




Al selection of other new arrivals:




Lilaeopsis brasiliensis in pot:




And this shows my old 120cm next to the new one. It currently acting as a quarantine tank for livestock, holding some of my excess trimmed stems and floating plants. It is still mainly a bed of Cryptocoryne, although many were taken for the new scape. Just running a simple sponge filter on it these days and it seems to be fine.
Failed to take photo with both aquariums correctly exposed?!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hypnogogia (9 Sep 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Failed to take photo with both aquariums correctly exposed?!


Shows the difference in light levels between the two.  You’d never have got both correctly exposed. I wonder how many stops difference it is.


----------



## ChrisD80 (9 Sep 2020)

On the hardscape front all of my original cotton wool with superglue bonds to fix the branches in place have broken as my clumsy hands brushed against them and knocked them loose. So now the branches are bound to each other using either black plastic cable ties or black velcro ties. For the most part they will sit where I want them. But the branch at the front right, no way. So this is how I am keeping it in place:




I have superglued some kitchen sponge to a clear silicon suction cup. And then superglued the sponge to the rock. A Velcro tie goes through the hoop in the suction cup and around the end of the branch to hold it in place. Quite unsightly but I will cover it up with a plant or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Sep 2020)

Few pics having planted out the new plants.

Back right corner: Rotala rotundifolia, Limnophila hippuridoides , Rotala vietnam and Heteranatha Zosterfolia


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Sep 2020)

Bucephalandra wavy green, Anubias and lileaopsis brasiliensis and moss covered lava stones, plus I have relocated one of the Schistamaglostis Prietori (towards front) as I read it prefers to root in to substrate rather than be an epiphite. Hopefully this aids it’s revory from the complete melt it suffered.




More Anubias:




Bucephalandra Kedagang:


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Sep 2020)

Current state of the hairgrass on the left side. Not as dense as I have seen others, perhaps I need to trim it more, or higher lighting? I have introduced some LB behind it to transition more to the stems.

I regularly trim leaves off the lotus as it produces so many and the flow distribution pushes them in to the stems so they do tend to get in the way. Ideally I would like them to grow all the way to the surface and sit over the middle path but current set up means this is impossible.




Looking at these photos it’s strange how some, such as this one above, have such a yellow warm hue whereas others, such as the Kedgang in previous post, look far cooler and more like what I perceive in real life. All shot with iPhone X with same lighting over the tank.

As these Limnophila don’t have far to grow due to elevated rear substrate they are constantly hitting the surface and attracting a covering of Salvinia, which multiplies at an astonishing rate.  I do worry that it’s blocking light to the stems but they do not look to be suffering so I guess it’s ok.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (17 Sep 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Some FTS, as you might expect it looks a mess at the moment...
> 
> //uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200909/bdf340ca544874bce47f4cd22bcb470c.jpg



Hey Chris.

First off love your scape, had immediate impact when first viewed and love the fossilised stone. Hoping you don’t mind a couple of suggestions, know you haven’t asked but think they may help.

In your posts you have two jets pointing at one another from each side of the tank. This is accompanied with the inlets right next to the outlets. Have you considered a better outflow/intake setup to improve distribution around the tank?

Realise you have already shelled out for SS inlets/outlets already. However, if you had shorter inlets positioned in the back corners you would be encouraging flow through your plants, creating a more effective distribution pattern and improved nutrient delivery. Even if it was only on one corner and you maintained the inlet with the skimmer as is, it would probably give you better growth.

The second point is your water level varies between shots. This will interfere with the average dissolved Co2 level day to day due to gassing off from variable levels of surface agitation. It may be a good idea to choose a water level and do your best to maintain it.


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Sep 2020)

Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] thanks for the compliment and for your suggestions. Any feedback or advice people would like to give me would always be gratefully received. I am just staring out and keen to learn.

It’s perhaps not visible from the photos I have shared but the left outlet is pointing along the front glass, whereas the right one is pointing towards the middle back. There is a kind of circular flow going on. The circulation pump aids this but it is unsightly and I would like to remove it soon if possible.

I didn’t know that short intakes were available for my pipe size and therefore thought I am forced to have all at the front. I will definitely have a look online to see if I can find any. If anyone knows of any short stainless steel 16/22 intakes available on the market please let me know. I find the integrated skimmer great so would like to keep that feature one way or another. I would love glass one day but have two young boys so cannot risk it. 

If I can get hold of some, how would you position the flow from two outlets? 

Regarding the water level, is this simply a matter of marking a level to keep it consistent and then topping up through the week? I am doing just one WC per week now. I can put aside some RO water to use for top ups.

Thanks v much
Chris 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (18 Sep 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention]



Just a minor hint Chris, if you want to mention someone on UKAPS you just use the @ followed by their name with no space. A list will appear of appropriate matches as you type the characters and you just tap the appropriate person.



ChrisD80 said:


> It’s perhaps not visible from the photos I have shared but the left outlet is pointing along the front glass, whereas the right one is pointing towards the middle back. There is a kind of circular flow going on.



This is good and if you can position even one intake in a back corner the push/pull of the flow in the tank will be even better. The soil is banked up high in the corners and can see you’re using Eheim filters. You can reverse the provided shepherds hook intake for a shallow intake:





Not as glamorous looking as SS but functionality over fashion wise it will get you an improved flow pattern and isn’t glass, safer for your children. If it were longer term and you can live with plastic there’s always the black ones:





I’m sure a good hunt around and you would find shallow SS 16mm intakes. Maybe other forum members can point you to a seller who stocks them.

As for flow, even the movement of one intake on the left side to the back corner would improve nutrient distribution through your plants on the left side:





If going the whole hog and getting the right side involved:





I understand the intake 2 proposal would mean your SS intake with the skim would be out. But you would see improvements in the back right corner as general nutrient/Co2 distribution through that area would be leaps and bounds better.

It’s an odd distribution pattern on the face of it but some valley scapes are like that. If proposal 2 were the desired direction then Co2 would be best deployed from the front left outflow:





Bare in mind this is a two dimensional representation. In three dimensions the steep banking towards the back where the intakes are positioned would make pull towards the intakes greater as it gets shallower.

If a skimmer was needed then an eheim skim in the back left corner pointing to the right corner would create flow across the back.

This design of flow pattern is sure to raise a few eyebrows on here as other, much more established members, rightly promote circular flow. However, evidence to the contrary, you can make odd ball flow patterns satisfactory if your scape design makes circular flow difficult:





Journal for the above New Year, New Scape... outlines similar tactics with flow/distribution in a tank where flow is quite restricted if it’s of interest.


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Sep 2020)

Hi Geoff,

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply, and for the drawings!

Firstly regarding 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Just a minor hint Chris


Thanks for this. I am on my laptop now, lets see if this ... @Geoffrey Rea comes out right when I hit submit reply
I do struggle when I am on ipad/tapatalk with mentioning people, quoting etc. 

Secondly really appreciate the link to your journal, what a fantastic scape! If I can achieve even half that level of plant growth I will be delighted. Your bolbitis was amazing, do you have any particular tips for this plant? You can see mine is really disappointing. It suffered badly along with many of the plants when I had issues early on due to the mistakes that I made. I wonder if a fresh new pot would stand a better chance?

In your photos I could just about make out filter inlets in each of the rear corners plus a skimmer, but I wasn't too sure what you had done with regards to filter outlets? were they glass and practically invisible?

Regarding my aquarium, I actually have both a green and a black Eheim inlet (my filters were bought at different times and they changed the colour) which I could employ. 

However I have taken some measurements and I think I may be able to put the current S/S inlets in the back corners. There is a difference in height between the bottom of the inlet and the substrate at the rear of 4cm on the left and 6cm on the right. My idea is to use a combination of raising them up a few cm higher in their brackets/suckers and putting very small glass jars dug in the substrate below them to give that little extra clearance. With luck the intake slots will not be impeded. I can always give it a go and see what happens.



Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s an odd distribution pattern on the face of it but some valley scapes are like that. If proposal 2 were the desired direction then Co2 would be best deployed from the front left outflow:


I actually have inline CO2 diffusers on both of the outlets so no need to choose! 

I may have a play with the two outlets to see whether I can achieve both good distribution of flow (main priority) and preferential sway of plants. My lotus is currently getting pushed into the stems on the left and I would much prefer it to go the other way towards the centre as originally envisaged.

Back in your journal, I read with interest your posts about the importance of oxygenation to the health of the aquarium and I may consider introducing airstones in each rear corner as well. I would only run the air it at night because the air pumps are so noisy, but I hope that would help towards the health of the system.

I also noted that you added an additional branch after initial set up to fill a gap, and I think my scape would benefit from a few extra if I can find the right pieces.

Thanks again for your help and love your work!

Cheers Chris


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (19 Sep 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Thanks for this. I am on my laptop now, lets see if this ... @Geoffrey Rea comes out right when I hit submit reply








ChrisD80 said:


> Your bolbitis was amazing, do you have any particular tips for this plant?



Time... adherence to whatever surface it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant. Don’t worry if your initial leaves are a bit ratty, the rhizome is where it’s at so once that’s established (attached) the plant will kick things up a gear.



ChrisD80 said:


> In your photos I could just about make out filter inlets in each of the rear corners plus a skimmer, but I wasn't too sure what you had done with regards to filter outlets? were they glass and practically invisible?



Eheim spray bar on the left driving flow to front right corner. Water drawn through plants to back right corner by the intake. Jet in back right corner firing it to back left corner and intake in the back left corner drawing water through the plants again.

Suppose my point is to think of your intakes as active actors in your flow pattern - push and pull. In almost every video/picture/live stream you watch (insert person here) place their inlet and outlet together so it’s become the status quo. Your scape design is a good example of how you can gain some benefits by bucking the trend and doing things a little different.



ChrisD80 said:


> and putting very small glass jars dug in the substrate below them to give that little extra clearance.



Wouldn’t disturb your substrate. Also the jars will encourage a localised increased flow into your intakes, would estimate you might start sucking in soil, clogging up your filters. Could be wrong but would imagine any pro would come with a con.




ChrisD80 said:


> Back in your journal, I read with interest your posts about the importance of oxygenation to the health of the aquarium and I may consider introducing airstones in each rear corner as well. I would only run the air it at night because the air pumps are so noisy, but I hope that would help towards the health of the system.



Two points... Firstly, assuming you move the intakes to the back corners, make sure you position the air stone/air diffuser away from your intakes as you don’t want air going into your filters. Second running air at night gives the added benefit of a different flow pattern during the night, can help solve any dead spots.


----------



## dw1305 (21 Sep 2020)

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant.


Mine just floats around the tank. Low tech it is actually one of my quicker growers, despite always ending up in places where Eeyore would find it gloomy.

I've also found that it almost never has any biofilm  on the fronds, even under the microscope the surfaces look almost entirely smooth. Some of older fronds occasionally have a bit of moss attached to them, but that really is it. I have no idea why, or if other people have found this as well?

It may just be that it is the lack of light that deters other would be "guests".

cheers Darrel


----------



## ChrisD80 (23 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Time... adherence to whatever surface it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant. Don’t worry if your initial leaves are a bit ratty, the rhizome is where it’s at so once that’s established (attached) the plant will kick things up a gear.


Ok, maybe I have a problem. At the moment they are attached with cable ties and now that I touch them they are somewhat loose and rhizome moves about. Perhaps if I tie them on more securely using another method the root/rhizome growth will more easily grow on to the wood and feel more secure.



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Suppose my point is to think of your intakes as active actors in your flow pattern - push and pull. In almost every video/picture/live stream you watch (insert person here) place their inlet and outlet together so it’s become the status quo. Your scape design is a good example of how you can gain some benefits by bucking the trend and doing things a little different.


Now that you say this, it makes complete sense.  By focussing on the direction of the outlets, and not the inlets, I was just thinking about half the equation. As you say 90+% of images you see have them together so didn't really give it much thought.

I have moved the S/S inlets to the back. I moved them higher in their brackets and removed a small amount of substrate below each to accommodate. I decided to try the glass jars; they are really tiny (opening is fractionally larger than the diameter of the inlet) and do not make any material impact on flow patterns. The slits in the inlets are all clearly exposed and actively intaking water. 

This got me thinking about the flow, and I note you mentioned in the journal using only a coarse sponge. I am currently using quite lot of mechanical filtration at a range of grades, perhaps too much. Will see about taking out some of the finer flosses.



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Firstly, assuming you move the intakes to the back corners, make sure you position the air stone/air diffuser away from your intakes as you don’t want air going into your filters.


Oh ok, I thought I read that it was beneficial for oxygen to be entering the filter for the bacteria. You are saying oxygenated water is what we are aiming for rather than oxygen bubbles! 

Thanks again for all the advice
Cheers
Chris


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (24 Sep 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Ok, maybe I have a problem. At the moment they are attached with cable ties and now that I touch them they are somewhat loose and rhizome moves about. Perhaps if I tie them on more securely using another method the root/rhizome growth will more easily grow on to the wood and feel more secure.



Nah. It can’t float away and it will attach in due course. Just like with humans, doesn’t matter what we say or do... still takes nine months to make a baby. As before, matter of time.




ChrisD80 said:


> Now that you say this, it makes complete sense. By focussing on the direction of the outlets, and not the inlets, I was just thinking about half the equation. As you say 90+% of images you see have them together so didn't really give it much thought.
> 
> I have moved the S/S inlets to the back. I moved them higher in their brackets and removed a small amount of substrate below each to accommodate. I decided to try the glass jars; they are really tiny (opening is fractionally larger than the diameter of the inlet) and do not make any material impact on flow patterns. The slits in the inlets are all clearly exposed and actively intaking water.



Excellent and really glad to hear the jar idea worked. Fortune favours the brave with new techniques!!




ChrisD80 said:


> This got me thinking about the flow, and I note you mentioned in the journal using only a coarse sponge. I am currently using quite lot of mechanical filtration at a range of grades, perhaps too much. Will see about taking out some of the finer flosses.



Yup, coarse prefilter sponge, bio media and filter floss at the very end. The filter floss collects all the finest crud and is replaced every two weeks along with the pre-filter sponge getting swapped out whilst you have the filter open. Cheap five metre rolls of floss you can cut yourself make this economical and you just need two prefilter sponges per filter for convenience. If you’re a fan of purigen, little bag after the floss. Monthly, rinse your media with the water draining from the tank. That’s it.  High flow through your filter all year round. Oldest filter running here has been going six years continuously like this and served many scapes.



ChrisD80 said:


> Oh ok, I thought I read that it was beneficial for oxygen to be entering the filter for the bacteria. You are saying oxygenated water is what we are aiming for rather than oxygen bubbles!



Bingo.

Wishing you beautiful plant growth Chris. Once again, love your scape.


----------



## ChrisD80 (8 Oct 2020)

Been a while since my last update, apologies. Been super busy with work and its hard to remember the last evening I had free.

Lots of updates to report but that will have to wait until I have time to take some photos / videos.

In the meantime I had taken these pics of some BBA that had developed and has stuck around. It doesn’t seem to be getting much worse or spreading which is good.

I am treating the hard scape with Excel and Hydrogen peroxide using a paintbrush when water level reduced during weekly maintenance. For the plants I can obviously cut off affected leaves but does anyone have advice for treating BBA on moss? Seen people describe treating plants by spraying diluted excel when exposed or injecting via syringe underwater. But would this harm the moss? 

Thanks in advance for any help.















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Oct 2020)

Think I have at least partly answered my own question. 

I notice now that the moss towards the ends of two of the branches where I had a week ago liberally painted neat Excel and Hydrogen peroxide on to the bare wood when water level was lowered are pretty much completely dead! Brown and lifeless. At least one of these branches had very healthy moss before. So I can only assume that the liquid had seeped along the branch into the moss and killed it off. The BBA on the bare wood of these branches and the rocks has been killed, which was the objective of the treatment, but I will be much more careful if I do this again I’m the future. 

Perhaps a diluted light misting of Excel/hydrogen peroxide would be ok, but I am cautious now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Oct 2020)

in other news...
Fish added! 19x Green neons  and 5x Panda Corydoras, plus 5x Clithon corona snails


----------



## ChrisD80 (13 Oct 2020)

And some other update to note:

Moss covered lava stones and Anubias / Bucephalandra distributed around the scape
new Bolbitis Heudloti added, mainly the emersed grown leaves on display but a few submerged leaves have started to develop
Small Cryptocoryne balansae added from old aquarium
Left hand inlet is in rear corner and left hand outlet in front corner,  but had some problems with the right hand inlet being separated from the right hand outlet as the skimmer was getting overwhelmed by floating plants and a film was developing  on the surface so for now they are back next to each other about half way back. Will play further with this to see what works best
Bought some La Plata sand and mixed with the original Colorado Sand to lighten up the substrate
Started using the rear light again (TMC Aquaray Grobeam) just set at 30% for now and matching the photoperiod of the Fluval 3.0.
Upped TNC Complete from 10ml per day to 12ml per day


----------



## ChrisD80 (16 Oct 2020)

Do my plants look like they are lacking sufficient fertiliser? I am not experienced to be able to read the signs but I  can’t help  feeling they are pale and not as vibrant and healthy as they should be.  I currently dose 12ml TNC complete per day. Should I up this amount? What do others dose? 120cm x 53cm x 50cm volume
thanks
Chris


----------



## Siege (16 Oct 2020)

10ml per 100L daily In heavily planted co2 tank.


----------



## ChrisD80 (16 Oct 2020)

Thanks @Siege. Okay so my tank is approx 300litres so that would be 30ml per day. Way higher than what I am currently adding. 

However I wouldn’t say it’s as heavily planted as other tanks I see on here a fair amount of real estate is sand and rock.
Perhaps I will go for something in the range 20-25ml and see how we go. 

is it safe to double my dose tomorrow or should I work up to that amount with a little extra each day?

cheers
Chris


----------



## Siege (16 Oct 2020)

I’d suggest just do it 😃


----------



## ChrisD80 (16 Oct 2020)

ok will do thank you👍


----------



## ChrisD80 (21 Oct 2020)

For my records:
- TNC complete now being dosed 22ml per day
- Seachem Excel 5 mil per day, and 30ml after weekly water change (hoping to combat BBA)
- Rear Aquaray at 50%


----------



## ChrisD80 (21 Oct 2020)

One for @Wookii 
A pinnatafida on the branch is naturally starting to grow emersed leaves. Will have to wait and see whether they continue to grow and survive. I have cut off the dark brown original leaves that were above water on this stem but were dying off.


----------



## DeepMetropolis (22 Oct 2020)

Here it survived and gave flowers I'm shure yours will too.. 

Greetz, Luciën.


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Oct 2020)

So far so good...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Nov 2020)

Update on growth of emersed Pinnatafida. And one or two more stems are now emerging nearby and starting to adapt their form to life above water.


----------



## ChrisD80 (18 Nov 2020)

Scape has been suffering from mid-low levels of BBA for a number of weeks / months, but now things appear quite improved. Still have some BBA on Bucephalandra and odd old leaves of other plants but nothing of note on new growth.

Tactics I have employed:
- reduction in filter sponges to improve flow and more frequent cleaning of the pre-filter sponges that remain (every 2 weeks rather than every 4 weeks)
- re-introduction of circulation pump to increase flow
- dosing Seachem Excel - 5ml per day then upped to 15ml per day. Dosed manually
- increase oxygenation via an airstone. firstly just at night but for a few weeks it has been on 24/7

Observations:

The flow from the filters is improved with fewer sponges, and the pre-filter sponges have plenty of plant matter and 'dirt' after just 2 weeks so I will keep up this schedule.

I believe the pump I have is too strong for the comfort of my livestock. The Eheim pump is quite powerful and the fish often appear distressed by the level of flow; they glass surf and dash around. After initially having it on 24/7 I decided to just run it for a few hours each day while the CO2 was on. However fish still looked stressed for these periods. I have unfortunately lost 2 fish that jumped. May have been linked to this but I have a number of hypothesis. Over past couple weeks or so I have removed the pump and the fish appear happy all the time now.

I was getting through my 500ml bottle of Excel at a quick rate and I failed to keep up regular enough dosing to be able to make a real judgement on this. I haven't dosed any for a couple of weeks now and things don't appear any the worse for it. 

The airstone, in my unscientific opinion, has had the most positive impact. Alongside the filter maintenance tweaks, this is the only tactic in play for the last 2-3weeks when the health of the plants has looked best and levels of BBA lower. Presently I am taking one of the two airlines from my old aquarium into this one. In future I will probably buy another air pump specifically for this aquarium and run two airlines discretely into the tank, one either side. I may employ a timer so that the bubbles are off during evening viewing hours.

The Vesicularia Montagnei moss, that first took a downturn during summer heatwaves, never really recovered and was then badly affected by the BBA now looks like this. Its straggly and the parts  closest to the branch are brown and dead, but the outer parts are relatively healthy new growth and there isn't really very much of the black fluff (BBA) any more. I have previously tried removing all moss from the branch and re-tying with cotton the green bits only but that method hasn't really proved successful for me.  So this time I will just leave it for a while longer and I hope that eventually that the new growth will grow over and obscure the brown parts. I think a trim of this and all the most is overdue.


----------



## ChrisD80 (19 Nov 2020)

I have transferred over some new fish from my old aquarium (being used for quarantine):

+11 Black line tetra (moenkhausia costae) - unfortunately  one has jumped as mentioned in previous post so now there are only 10. I opted for this species as I had heard good things about their schooling / shoaling behaviour. In my brief experience they do tend to stick together as a reasonably tight shoal most of the time, and often form a tight 'picture perfect' schooling formation. When the lights are off and they are totally relaxed they will disperse separately. When they want to get somewhere fast, they really are lightning quick, almost too fast to see. And they are more eager for food and feed more voraciously than the green neons, although since their introduction, the green neons themselves have become bolder and quicker with regards to food consumption.

+5 Otocinclus, making 6 in total

+1 Panda cory, making 6 in total

Sadly the green neons now number just 17. One jumped about 24 hours before the black line tetra, and a few days ago another passed away through illness (noticed a sore around one gill, and was dead the next day).

And I have now lost all snails, three striped nerve and five clithon corona. All followed a similar pattern, active for maybe 2-3 weeks, then just stopped moving. During the active phase they would from time to time climb up the glass to the water surface, perhaps suggesting they were not happy, but most of their time they would be actively climbing over hardscape, plants and glass and seemed to be eating. Not sure of the cause of their demise. Thoughts include water thats too soft, CO2 injection not to their liking, lack of algae of the type they like to eat??

Here are a few (not great) pics of the new arrivals:


----------



## ChrisD80 (19 Nov 2020)

And here's a couple of FTS:






And video:


[airstone temporarily removed for photoshoot]


----------



## ChrisD80 (8 Dec 2020)

Sadly I have lost three Amano shrimp over the past few days. I found one wedged between rocks on Friday and during today’s water change discovered two more of the poor little fellows have perished. A fourth was upturned on his back  looking very sorry for himself. I netted him and positioned him in the net above the airstone. He managed to crawl out after some time so we will see how he has fared at roll call tomorrow.

 Do not recall ever losing one before, in fact I still have all my originals from maybe 9/10 years ago.  Although having said this I did have some non-fatal issues with what I think were CO2 fits earlier in this journal.

Anyone have any ideas?
The only things that I can think of that have happened differently recently are: 

About a week ago placed some new potted plants  in the aquarium to acclimatise.  Could they have had some chemicals on them?
Disturbed the substrate quite a bit when moving some plants around. Might this have caused an ammonia spike? Both ammonia and nitrite tested zero today. Although thinking about it the substrate disturbance was last Friday when i found the first fatality so it cannot explain that one.

thanks in advance for any thoughts, any other reasons Amanos die?

cheers
Chris


----------



## ChrisD80 (15 Dec 2020)

Two more Amano casualties. Just the tails found. Pink / white looking just like the prawns we eat.

Nothing changed in the week. 
No idea whats going on here!?


----------



## not called Bob (15 Dec 2020)

no chance the plants were copper treated for snails in the shop?


----------



## Wolf6 (15 Dec 2020)

The plants would be prime suspect if that is all that changed :/ but no experience on the matter... hope you can figure it out!


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Dec 2020)

Thanks both, that is my most likely hypothesis. I have emailed the plant supplier to see if it’s a possibility.

Sadly found another this morning. Must have only just passed as it looks in normal condition. Pic below. I cannot see anything unusual. 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Siege (17 Dec 2020)

What grower were your plants? Problem unlikely  if they are European growers. Possible with cheap imports from outside Europe. These are more likely to be bunches /cuttings shoved into pots though rather than true pot grown plants.


My money would be on ammonia at substrate level. Give that a good blast with a turkey baster followed by a couple of massive water changes.

May also be combined with you removing media from the filter to enhance the flow?


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Dec 2020)

On the plant front, the normally fast growing hygrophila pinnatafida and floating salvinia are showing signs of ill health in the form of brown spots / browning.

If this a reflection of an overall nutrient deficiency it may be because the emersed pinnatafida (final pic), which keeps getting bigger, is using up more and more fertiliser and there’s not enough to go around.

I have just now increased daily dose of all in one TNC complete from 22ml to 27ml. Let’s see if this makes a difference...

If any experts can diagnose more specifically the issue from the pics please shout.

Thanks as always
Chris















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Dec 2020)

Siege said:


> What grower were your plants?



Hi @Seige there were 2x Echinodorus, 1x microsorum trident, 1x Bolbitis heudloti and 1x 1-2 grow vesicularia Dubyana all from tropica. And 1x EASY GROW micranthemum micranthemoides from Aquafleur
Supplier was Pro Shrimp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisD80 (17 Dec 2020)

@Siege just saw remainder of your post. Thanks for advice. 
I have done 2x 50% water changes on regular weekly schedule since first death but will do another bigger one tonight. I am using pumped RO so it takes considerable time to refill and back to back changes would not be possible with the time i oday.
The filter media I removed was just mechanical sponges from the pre-filters. The biological media remains the same. 

test readings:
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40ppm. GH 7, KH 4.

Thanks
Chris


----------



## Siege (17 Dec 2020)

Cheers.
Yes not the plants, all EU grown so not treated for pests. I cant see pro shrimp treating for pests. Too time consuming and associated issues once go in the tank.

you may still have ammonia at substrate level, hence the shrimp and snail deaths. This is more than likely caused by excess food, melting plants etc. Give the substrate a good blast with a turkey baster at water change time and syphon off the rubbish that floats up.

Make sure your drop checker is good and is dry when refilled to ensure it’s not co2 related.


----------



## ChrisD80 (21 Dec 2020)

Performed a 80%+ water change on 17/12 including Turkey Baster blasting.

Have kept feeding to a minimum.

additional drop checkers added, will keep an eye on them.

I thought it was going ok but just found two more dead this morning, including one of the older really big ones. 

I fear for the whole population now. If I thought I could catch them easily  I would remove the remaining ones from the tank and transfer to my old aquarium.


----------



## ChrisD80 (14 Jan 2021)

Just a couple update pics


----------



## ForestDave (15 Jan 2021)

Looks great! How are your shrimp doing?


----------



## ChrisD80 (22 Jan 2021)

Hi @ForestDave, thanks for your comment. Sadly the shrimp have all passed away. Over 20 of them. It’s quite upsetting, and the really frustrating thing is that I don’t know what the problem was.

One thing that I have since considered is that I started adding potassium bicarbonate (food grade) at some point, when I do water changes to boost the KH a little. I cannot recall exactly when but it may well have been about the time when the nerite and clithon snails perished followed by the first dead amino shrimp being found. With every water change I may have been doing more harm than good.

Just browsing I found this post which sounded startlingly familiar. 








						Potassium (bi)carbonate and inverts
					

I wanted to start a conversation on this because I haven't seen too much mentioned and I wanted to see if anyone else has had a similar experience to mine.  I switched to RODI water several months ago. I used a potassium bicarbonate product to raise my KH to ~3, yielding approximately 40 ppm K...




					www.plantedtank.net
				




Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Or conversely is anyone actively adding potassium bicarbonate to RO water and has happy healthy shrimp and snails?

thanks
Chris


----------



## ForestDave (23 Jan 2021)

Ah sorry to hear that Chris. I can imagine that was pretty horrible to watch. 
I'll be following your post to see if there are any updates on the potassium bicarbonate.
Good luck getting to the bottom of it!


----------



## Wookii (27 Jan 2021)

ChrisD80 said:


> Hi @ForestDave, thanks for your comment. Sadly the shrimp have all passed away. Over 20 of them. It’s quite upsetting, and the really frustrating thing is that I don’t know what the problem was.
> 
> One thing that I have since considered is that I started adding potassium bicarbonate (food grade) at some point, when I do water changes to boost the KH a little. I cannot recall exactly when but it may well have been about the time when the nerite and clithon snails perished followed by the first dead amino shrimp being found. With every water change I may have been doing more harm than good.
> 
> ...



The vast majority of people remineralising RO water will be using either potassium carbonate or potassium bi-carbonate Chris, either via raw salts, or via commercial KH+ products which will contain these also. If potassium bircarbonate was a shrimp killer you'd be hearing a lot more about it, especially from shrimp breeders who more commonly use remineralised RO water. The only other possibility is there could be some other impurities in the potassium bicarbonate, but if you say it is food grade, that is unlikely too. Where did you get it?

That said, the TNC GH Booster you are using contains potassium, as does the TNC Complete you are dosing. @Zeus. might be able to tell you what your resulting potassium levels are via his magic calculator - I would expect them to be fairly high, but again I'd be surprised if they were high enough to be toxic to shrimp.

I can see nothing obvious from looking at your tank, as to what might have caused the deaths. Generally when shrimp are unhappy with the water parameters, they tend to try and vote with their feet and attempt to evacuate the tank. If CO2 is too high for example, Amano shrimp will often do very rapid laps of the tank just below the surface trying to find a way out. Do they show this kind of behaviour?


----------



## dw1305 (27 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


ChrisD80 said:


> One thing that I have since considered is that I started adding potassium bicarbonate (food grade) at some point, when I do water changes to boost the KH a little. I cannot recall exactly when but it may well have been about the time when the nerite and clithon snails perished followed by the first dead amino shrimp being found.


I agree with @Wookii,  the tank looks fine (plant growth looks good) and I think it is pretty unlikely that it is the potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). A thought occurs that it might be a calcium (Ca) issue or even possibly sodium (Na). I've never deliberately added sodium to my tank, but our tap water has some in it and so does our rainwater (you get sodium ions (from sea water) even if you live miles from the sea).

I lost my Cherry Shrimps through a combination of feeding too many of them to the _Apistogramma cacatuoides _and letting the water get too soft in the winter. Now I keep an eye on the Ramshorn snails in the tanks, and if I only have very small, pale shelled, ones left I <"add a bit more tap water">. The only harder water snails I've tried were Assassin Snails (_Anentome *(*Clea) helena) _and they rapidly showed <"shell attrition">_._

Did you used to remineralise your RO with tap water, before you used potassium bicarbonate? or a commercial salts mix and do you add calcium?

I know you will have added magnesium (Mg) with your fertiliser dosing.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (27 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I agree with @Wookii,  the tank looks fine (plant growth looks good) and I think it is pretty unlikely that it is the potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). A thought occurs that it might be a calcium (Ca) issue or even possibly sodium (Na). I've never deliberately added sodium to my tank, but our tap water has some in it and so does our rainwater (you get sodium ions (from sea water) even if you live miles from the sea).
> 
> ...



I had the same thought initially Darrel, that it could be calcium/moulting, but in Chris's post on the first page says he uses:


ChrisD80 said:


> Water
> Pumped reverse osmosis (TDS 7)
> Remineralised with *TNC GH Boost* to GH 6, KH <2


. . . which contains calcium, magnesium and potassium. Whether its enough calcium , I don't know, they do list the percentages here:









						TNC GH Boost
					

Boosts General Hardness (GH) of tank water Increases Magnesium, Calcium & Potassium levels Ideal for the soft, rain or RO water user Simple to use powder Description TNC GH Boost contains Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium salts. Added to your tank it will increase the water hardness and the...




					thenutrientcompany.com
				






> K 13.5% (K2O 13.2%),Ca 9% (CaO 12.5%), Mg 3% (MgO 5%)


----------



## dw1305 (27 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> but in Chris's post on the first page says he uses: TNC GH Boost which contains calcium, magnesium and potassium.


Not that then. I'm really struggling. I might try adding some Oak leaves or Alder cones,  they would bind any potential heavy metal issues, but they will also <"tint your water">.

As a last resort I might try a minimal amount of sodium chloride (NaCl). "Table salt" would be fine whatever the <"added desiccant is">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus. (27 Jan 2021)

ChrisD80 said:


> have just now increased daily dose of all in one TNC complete from 22ml to 27ml. Let’s see if this makes a difference...





So 290L tank so STD dose would be 29ml per week and your was dosing 22ml per day so 154 ml per week so that works out at 154/29 = 5.3 so Five times STD dose




new dose 27 x7 = 189, 189/29 = 6.5 so x6.5



Also increase dGH to 6

 So Six times STD dose




Then 2.0gKH





So plants are not Potassium deficient. 100ppm K +

Plus with such high nitrates levels (not that I trust test kits) maybe a little less Ferts will do more good than harm
Plus doing a DY remin bespoke mix will lower the [K] levels and save you money


----------



## ChrisD80 (28 Jan 2021)

Thank you @dw1305 @Wookii and @Zeus. for your help with this and all the info.

I bought the potassium bicarbonate from this source:








						1kg Potassium Bicarbonate
					

We sell Borax, Boric acid, Sodium Bicarbonate, Epsom Salt, Copper Sulphate, Calcium Carbonate, Trisodium Phosphate, Sodium Thiosulphate, Ammonium Sulphate



					www.intralabs.co.uk
				




The shrimp did not show any desire to exit the tank, and were behaving normally so far as I could tell. I took a video (below) of what turned out to be final sighting of a shrimp. I found empty exoskeletons regularly so moulting was taking place. There were issues early on, which I think were CO2 related and then more recently the only instance I can recall was when I was doing a water change and one was on its back. Although all the snails eventually stopped moving, they didn't try and get out the tank and I couldn't see any change in the condition of their shells.

As @Wookii said I am using the GH boost with every water change. I will stop using the potassium bicarbonate from now on.

With regards to TNC Complete I increased the dosage because the java fern amongst others was looking really pale. Even with the higher dosing it looked the same and it is growing fine. Due to this and with the shrimp problems I did actually reduce the dosage down a few weeks ago currently at 19ml per day, and the plants don't look any the worse for it, and are on the whole looking probably the best they have. Do you think 19ml is appropriate or still too high? also I think the rock and substrate must be reducing the overall volume down from 290litres.

Cheers
Chris


----------



## Wookii (28 Jan 2021)

ChrisD80 said:


> Thank you @dw1305 @Wookii and @Zeus. for your help with this and all the info.
> 
> I bought the potassium bicarbonate from this source:
> 
> ...



The looks fine to me.



ChrisD80 said:


> As @Wookii said I am using the GH boost with every water change. I will stop using the potassium bicarbonate from now on.



I wouldn’t if I were you. Stability of parameters is more important. I really don’t think that the potassium bicarbonate will be doing any harm, the issues with the Amanos is elsewhere, and still a mystery unfortunately.


----------



## ChrisD80 (28 Jan 2021)

Also, unrelated to shrimp, but for purposes of keeping a log...

I was lucky to receive a book called Aquarium Plants by Christel Kasselmann for Christmas. She says that in the tropics sunlight will be more or less a constant 12 hour period through the year and recommends 12-13 hours for cultivating vast majority of aquarium plants (minimum 12 hours). As I hadn't increased lighting duration from the 6-7 hours I went with in the early days when I was suffering melting, 2-3 weeks ago I increased it up to 10.5 hours with corresponding increase in C02 period. As I said above plants are probably looking best right now that they ever have.

On the BBA front, it has been present on hardscape and many of the plants (on their older leaves) for a long time (many months). I have been cleaning the pre-filters weekly and carefully removing any damaged/decaying plant matter I see, and the airstones are on 24/7. So the news to report is that I have tried again with liquid carbon, more diligent this time 15ml eery day for about 10 days now. I have been using a syringe to spot dose underwater and the results are better than I expected. Areas treated have turned white and eventually disappeared (I wondered whether it would be too dilute underwater and ineffective) and the plants haven't really suffered. Anubias, Bucephalandra and even some of the mosses that were heavily infested are now looking pretty much free of BBA and no damage to their leaves. When I had previously applied liquid carbon with a paint brush to branches when out of the tank and some had come in to contact with moss, the moss had completely died off, so this was a pleasant surprise.

Feeling more positive now with very little visible algae and good plant growth.


----------



## dw1305 (29 Jan 2021)

Hi all, 


ChrisD80 said:


> She says that in the tropics sunlight will be more or less a constant 12 hour period through the year and recommends 12-13 hours for cultivating vast majority of aquarium plants (minimum 12 hours).


I've <"always used a 12 hour day">, using the same reasoning., but I don't add CO2 and all my tanks are nutrient depleted.

cheers Darrel


----------



## ChrisD80 (5 Feb 2021)

Wookii said:


> I wouldn’t if I were you.


I used a little tap water instead for the most recent water change, KH 3.


----------



## ChrisD80 (5 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I'd agree, I'm not personally an advocate of heavy fertiliser dosing,


I will look to further reduce fertiliser dosing and monitor plant condition to see what happens.
I thought AIO such as TNC complete were pretty commonplace, haven't aquarium gardens been using it with success (and invertebrates) for a long time now?


----------



## ChrisD80 (5 Feb 2021)

I enjoy the scape during the twilight moments, when the lighting is ramping down for the night. Atmospheric.


----------



## ChrisD80 (16 Nov 2021)

Hi folks. Been a while, here are some updated pics.
Changes include:

new Chihiros light
echinodorus palaefolius growing out of the surface
java fern taking over!
healthy population of Amano shrimp and Nerite snails for 9 months  (using a small amount of tap water for KH rather than potassium bicarbonate)
ember tetra
bad times with BGA (eventually removed using Ultra Life Blue Green Slime Stain Remover)
much leaner fertiliser dosing (only 7ml per day)
Excel auto dosing - BBA nearly all gone now


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (16 Nov 2021)

Beautiful work @ChrisD80 😍


----------

