# The Celestial Swamp - A voyage through a flooded forest fringe (Shallow Riparium)



## hitmanx

Well one year into planted tanks, I felt that I had to build a riparium after seeing some spectacular examples over the years by people on both sides of the pond...

My first attempt has been very successful and has been a great learning experience, but it's diminutive size is lacking in the awe inspiring impact that a larger setup can provide... One year later and I'm finally getting my larger shallow wide off the ground.

My major inspiration has been the works of Alastair and Big Tom, and I thank you for sharing your tanks with us over the years!

As the name suggests, I am trying to give the impression of the marginal area where a body of water meets the forest floor (or fringe), in this case an area that has been flooded by seasonal rains. This is my swamp...



That's as far as I have proceeded... I still have to finish the stand, drill the holes, build the overflow, plumbing and sump, and then finally, I can get to aquascaping...

Cheers!

*Updated info: 
Sep 2018*

*Fauna*

1 Otocinclus affinis
1 BN ancistrus
4 Brachydanio tinwini
10+ Celestichthys erythromycin
14+ Celestichthys margaritas
4 Celestichthys choprae
15 Microdevario kubotai
5+ Amano shrimp


*Flora (Feb 2022)

Bellow:*

Hygrophila polysperma
Hygrophila angustifolia
Heteranthera Zosterifolia
Sagittaria subulata
Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'
Cryptocoryne walkeri ‘lutea’
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne wendtii (green, brown, tropica)

*Above:*

Spathiphyllum 'Petite'
Calathea lancifolia
Calathea rufibarba
Chamaedorea cataractarum
Chamaedorea elegans
Ficus pumila
Anthurium sp.
Ardisia sp.


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## James O

Looking good. With inspiration like BigTom, you're set for awesome things!!!!

What's the tank dimensions and the builder?  Looks lurvly 

Btw, who's the little swamp monster?


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## hitmanx

The swamp monster is my youngest... She likes to be part of the action - part of why it's taken me so long to get this project off the ground...

The dimensions are very similar to Alastair's "smaller" tank...

120 x 76 x 30cm, with 10mm starphire 3 sides, made by a Canadian company Miracles in Glass...


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## James O

Cute 

Can't wait to see how this comes together.


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## chrism

This sounds like it's going to be really exciting!  Looking forward to seeing how this progresses 


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## Jakes

Looking good i am very much interested to see how this turns out!!


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## castle

A really nice size, keen to see how this turns out!


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## rebel

Looking great! What are you going to use for lights??


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## hitmanx

Oh my how time flies... I really wish I was farther along on this project... not much has changed save for the holes being drilled and my youngest daughter get a little bigger...


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## kadoxu

The swamp monster is growing fast! What kind of ferts are you using?!


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## hitmanx

mainly cheese, humus, chocolate, and butter...


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## hitmanx

Well, the overflow box is assembled, mounted and leak tested... most of the plumbing is assembled and waiting for painting...


rebel said:


> Looking great! What are you going to use for lights??



sorry for the late reply... my original idea for lighting was an array of 23watt CFL light in reflectors. .. my previous tanks have had great success with those but I've also had good success with LEDs...

I briefly thought about using kessil lights but I think I would need too many and the cost would sky rocket...

So my new plan is to make an array of par38 LED bulbs... I've never used them before but hear good things... I found some Philips 12watt (100w) daylight bulbs with 35 degree beam optics for $15, so I will need between 6 and 8 of them depending on how high up they are. .. I am hoping to hang the lights somewhere between 40-48" above the substrate to allow 24- 36" of riparium plant growth above the rim of the tank...

Again, underwater plants will be low light variety so I'm hoping that amount of light will suffice...

I'm still a while away from the light stage though, so plans may change again. ..


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## hitmanx

I got the glass cut and pollished locally for the semi coast to coast overflow... I am using GE SCS1200 in black and this is the first time I have used any silicone on glass...
https://flic.kr/p/N1amXN


This silicone only has 5 minutes of open time so assembly was very chalenging. .. wood jigs were used to hold the box. side at 90deg...



I used a wooden jig to make sure the overflow box was level to the tank... after using the SCS1200 to attach it, I had to scrape the silicone back and reseal the inner joints because I guess I didn't put down a big enough bead the first time and the coverage was patchy. .. the structural silicone between the panes was perfect just not the inner seams... 

Anyways, after 48hrs I leak tested it and it passed and so did the bulkheads!

This tank is slowly coming along!


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## hitmanx

So I'm happy with the stand being flat and level so I put down a couple yoga mats under the tank as per Derek at Miracles...



I have 40 gallon Tuff Stuff stock tank I'm thinking of using for my sump so I don't have to worry about more glass seams leaking over time... The stand isn't in position yet so I am hoping the final leveling will go smoothly... I'm getting anxious to fill this thing up after owning it for 340 days of it sitting empty...

I've taped off the tank so I can paint the back of it black with acrylic glass paint... it still needs a 4th coat... don't mind the mess, I'm in the middle of a reno too...



the first coat went nicely...


It's still not dark enough after 3 coats...


Next up is the painting of the bean animal drain pipes and gluing them to the bulkheads... after that I can fill it with water and test whole system...


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## Joe Turner

Really looking forward to seeing this wet, such cool dimensions. Looks like a painstaking process, but I'm sure the eventual outcome will all be worth it! Your celestials will love all the space  keep it coming!


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## hitmanx

This weekend it should be in place and hopefully fully leak tested... maybe I will even have time to finish and test the bean animal system!

I've had plants sitting around for over a year waiting to get in this tank... they are starting to look sickly and tired... the sooner I get this tank going, the sooner I can get all my grow out tanks and containers empty and put away... I have six 30 x 45cm containers filled with crypts alone but of course they've been neglected so they aren't the healthiest...

I'm looking forward to the tranquility of a single tank to focus on instead of the mayham that has been my basement for the last year...


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## hitmanx

Some progress....


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## rebel

Very nice! Has very gnarly feel to it.


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## alto

That's some gnarly wood  


though I'm thinking your kid liked it better before


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## chrism

This is going to be amazing!


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## Gary Murphy

Looks awesome. Going to be following this one!


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## hitmanx

Hardscape details:

75 lbs of Okho stone, a big box of Manzanita wood, 40 lbs of ADA Malaya, 30 lbs of ADA Amazonia, 70 lbs of safe t sorb, 1 lb of ground peat moss, 1 lb of Mexican pottery clay and a egg crate base layer...

After laying down a layer of mulm on the substrate, i'm doing a dry start for a few weeks so the front area can grow in with crypts etc... that will give me enough time to work on the lights and finish off the sump.


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## hitmanx

Livestock waiting to go in:

This tank is loosely based on species from Myanmar (Burma) and possibly Thailand...

14 Celestichthys margaritatus (Celestial Pearl 'Danio')
18 Celestichthys choprae (Glowlight 'Danio')
18 Brachydanio tinwini (Gold ring 'Danio')

And possible some corydoras pygmaeus (Pygmy Cory), and some Ottocilus sp. that I have on hand... I am hoping get my hands on some Petruichthys sp. 'rosy' (Rosy Loach) and a shoal of Celestichthys erythromicron (Emerald 'Rasbora')


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## hitmanx

I thought I'd go over my substrate system...

The first layer under the hardscspe was eggcrate to protect the glass



This was followed by a base layer of safe t sorb
https://flic.kr/p/Pc4wpc


Then a layer of peat moss
https://flic.kr/p/P9ggJA


Then a layer of new and used ADA aquasoil Amazonia
https://flic.kr/p/QqAKYF


Then a filler layer of safe t sorb out front and 4 inches of it in the back... ADA Malaya was placed on the edges 



Then ADA Malaya was added to the front sloped from front to back... notice the colour similarities between the safe t sorb and the Malaya and the dragon stone... 
https://flic.kr/p/QqACbX


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## hitmanx

Now comes the planting...

This is only a small portion of what went into the soil





Mulm from other tanks and filters was mixed with water and added to just below the front level so I can do a dry start without the treat of bga etc...

The front area is then filled with various crypt species, mainly from the c. x willisii complex and filled out with e. tennelus (Helanthium tenellum) and lilaeopsis mauritiana... some c. parva was added to the front









I used saran wrap taped together to cover the top up and over the protruding wood to maitain humidity





I open the saran wrap daily for gas exhange and spray the plant every so often... maybe a month of this treatment to cycle the soil and get some good root development and I'm going to flood it...

You can see some of the riparium plants acclimating in the back... The overflow is half filled with a small pump circulating the water.


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## mirv

This is going to be an ultra journal,pretty sure about this man.
I made myself a riparium and its getting better and better, so far the best aquatic-related experience i've ever had.
Have you got some plants for adding some moss above the emergent sections of your manzanita branches? it should be really nice

regards mate, and keep us updated!


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## hitmanx

yes i have tried using aquatic mosses emersed before with varied success... this time im going to using terrestrial 'club moss'... the roots work great dipped in the water... the tops of the "stumps" will be covered in moss and various emergent plants and maybe a few orchids if they can handle the lights...


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Hitmanx, Wonderful scape


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## hitmanx

I also added Hydrocotyle sp."Japan" (Hydrocotyle tripartita) and its doing great in this dry start,  trippling in size in just 2 weeks... Lets hope it does just as well flooded...





 I want to flood it now, but I need to be patient... This project has been over a year in the making so I dont want to cut corners now... my intention is make this riparium as little maitenance as possible, including water changes... the soil needs time to cycle so I hopefully dont need to do much when I flood...

Once I add the second row of riparium plants that will hang off the overflow and right side of the tank, I will see how much light gets down to the soil behind the stumps and hopefully plant temporary nitrate sucking stems and sagitaria sublata... But long term I expect the riparium plants to overshadow that area too much for aquatic plants


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## hitmanx

I'm more concerned about how to physically get water to the tank... I've only ever had nanos so a single bucket worked well for the infrequent water changes... This thing is close to 100 gallons with the sump, so its a lot more overwhelming!

I'm mixing my super hard tap water 50/50 with RO water so I can't just use a tap and hose...

I'm very close to filling the tank now... I just finished priming the inside of the stand with KILZ and I need to caulk the corners etc so it can attemp to contain any spills... I also added a couple 2x4 supports to the front of the stand because I wasnt 100% confident in the open 4ft span using the double 2x4 headers... I should have used 2x6's...

Planting update: 

everything is growing in great and secure with amazing root systems... nothing can be pulled easily... the Hydrocotyle sp."Japan" (Hydrocotyle tripartita) is trying to take over the tank... its already smothering the crypt undulata along the rocks...

Unfortunately BGA is starting to form on the substrate at the front of the tank... I'm slacking on airing the tank out each day... This probably won't be a problem when I flood...


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## hitmanx

Ideally this problem will be infrequent as i dont plan on doing many water changes once this tank gets settled... The sheer mass of riparium plants will take care of the filtering... 80 microfish in a 100 gallons is not what i call overstocked... In fact i will probably need to worry about deficiencies... All of my nanos have used the non CO2 method with little to no water changes... my other cube riparium has only had one water change in 2 years with stellar parameters. My betta is happy and healthy...

Topping it off with RO water is done semi daily because open top ripariums seem to lose crazy amounts of water due to evaporation... this new tank is 15 times bigger so hopefully it doesnt lose 15 times the water!

I will be keeping a large Brute trash can full of RO water in an adjacent closet with a pump for topping off the sump...

Once the tank is flooded and settled with the fish swimming around I will be taking many photos with my DSLR!


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## criticalsolution

hitmanx said:


> Topping it off with RO water is done semi daily because open top ripariums seem to lose crazy amounts of water due to evaporation... this new tank is 15 times bigger so hopefully it doesnt lose 15 times the water!
> 
> I will be keeping a large Brute trash can full of RO water in an adjacent closet with a pump for topping off the sump...



get an osmolator


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## hitmanx

criticalsolution said:


> get an osmolator



Sounds tempting but what if it fails? I dont want all my RO water on the floor! Some things are better left to be done manually... Im gonna wire up a switch on the light fixture away from mischievous child hand to control the pump for the water storage... my mind change later


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## criticalsolution

I understand, I had the same fear....,that my living room turns into a swimmig pool
but once the osmolator was in place ,I said myself  why i did not install it before

I had calculated that even all my RO reserve went to my tank ;it could not overflow 
but I had not the  fitration systeme like yours


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## hitmanx

criticalsolution said:


> I understand, I had the same fear....,that my living room turns into a swimmig pool
> but once the osmolator was in place ,I said myself  why i did not install it before
> 
> I had calculated that even all my RO reserve went to my tank ;it could not overflow
> but I had not the  fitration systeme like yours



Yes it does sound super convientiant especially if i hookup an RO filter to fill up the reservoir... maybe later


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## hitmanx

I'm going to flood this tank today!!

But I have a confession to make... while I leak tested the tank itself, I did NOT test the overflow and bean animal system before I aquascaped... Here's hoping that it works!!

Heres the before picture today:


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## alto

Stand by with the water vacuum & towels


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## hitmanx

Oh man!

Even with the best laid plans you always froget something... after soaking the manzinita for close to 8 months, the wood is now very mich dry now during the dry start...

Most of the bulk of the wood is way up high and out of the water, but I hope it doesnt float away and ruin my hard work!!

Half filled:





Update:

I've stopped filling the tank at 3/4 full... I slapped on a AC30 with seeded matrix and a heater to bring up the 13*C water temp from the tap.... I'm gonna let it sit there for awhile so the wood can start soaking up water... I also added Seachem Prime and Excel to help the aquatic plants transition to submersed living... I also dumped a half dozen ramshorn snails in too for good measure... 

I imagine that I will have to do a bunch of water changes early on despite that fact that a dry start is supposed to cycle the soil already - there still could be high ammonia spikes from the aquasoil...

Like everything in this projects, I have to be patient!


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## hitmanx

The saran wrap has been removed!

Its still 3/4 full and has random floating wood pieces and a rock to hold down some wood, the heater in the tank, non fuctional overflow, and the riparium section hasn't been organized and finished, but it's got water!!!

No water changes yet... I dont see the harm in leaving it in there for a few days to try and draw out any pollutants or excess nutrients from the soil... the fish wont be moved in until the tanks stable...





This is the rough draft of the sump with diy poret foam hollow cube fikter with a matrix inner layer, and the bean animal plumbing going into a bucket to provide a constant water level and to provide silent laminar flow into the sump...


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## Jakes

Ill be interested in a more detailed post of your sump and your hollow cube filter if you have time 


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## Alexander Belchenko

What a cool puddle pond you build! Very cool that your walls are wooden, great match to live corner or green and brown.


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## hitmanx

Jakes said:


> Ill be interested in a more detailed post of your sump and your hollow cube filter if you have time



I forgot to take pictures of the filter build but it's pretty simple... I took a 13" x 39" x 2" piece of 10ppi Poret foam and cut them to size to make a 4 sided cube and used the left over scs1000 silicone to glue them together and to a 13" x 13" porcelain tile base... I made another smaller 5 sided cube out of eggcrate and zipties to fit inside creating a space between that and the poret foam for seeded seachem matrix to serve as further filtration... the pump then sits in the middle...

 If needed smaller cubes of 20ppi and 30ppi foam could be used in the same manner within the cube... I do not have a high bioload so 10ppi will function just fine as the riparium plants will be the main form of biological filtration in my setup... and in theory I shouldnt have to clean the foam ever!

My sump is very simple... water drains down into the bucket, overflows into the sump and makes its way through the poret foam filter and back to the display tank... the sumps main purpose is a water reservoir to increse the total for the system because there is so much soil and hardscape in the tank... I have plenty of room in there for extra seeded media and equipment and space for breeding boxes etc...

A sump need not be complicated for fresh water,  and certainly doesn't need to be made from glass or expensive acrylic... stock tanks like this are perfect for this kind of thing...


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## Kezzab

hitmanx said:


> A sump need not be complicated for fresh water,  and certainly doesn't need to be made from glass or expensive acrylic... stock tanks like this are perfect for this kind of thing...



This is an excellent point, which is obvious when you think about it - but we're always so obsessed by a particular product, rather than the simplest/cheapest way to achieve the outcome we want. So, loving the DIY, but can you point out where the return pipe is on your sump?


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## Shane Puthuparambil

Wow! Your tank is a beauty!


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## hitmanx

Kezzab said:


> This is an excellent point, which is obvious when you think about it - but we're always so obsessed by a particular product, rather than the simplest/cheapest way to achieve the outcome we want. So, loving the DIY, but can you point out where the return pipe is on your sump?



There currently is no return yet... I'm waiting for the tank to be filled to finalize the placement of the 1inch return... currently the pump is hooked up to a 1/2 vinyl tube that fills the blue bucket in order to maintain flow in the sump... in this way the poret filter is being seeded with the boat load of used matrix thats sitting in the sump...

I have not finalized the riparium planting, but for now its going to be Spathiphyllum 'petite', Syngonium, Cyperus alternifolius 'Gracilis', Monstera deliciosa, ficus pumila, and Lysimachia nummularia 'aurea'...


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## Kezzab

Aha, that makes sense then. Thought i was missing something! Looking good.


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## hitmanx

100% percent water change...  100% filled... next up is the return plumbing and testing of the bean animal system...






A quick tank shot...


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## Shane Puthuparambil

Can't wait to see the growth!!!!


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## Jakes

hitmanx said:


> My sump is very simple...
> 
> A sump need not be complicated for fresh water,  and certainly doesn't need to be made from glass or expensive acrylic... stock tanks like this are perfect for this kind of thing...



Cheers Mate, that is a very simple idea but i like your thinking behind it, especially in Freshwater systems.  Some local stores always push their wares and never really tell you that you can actually get by and have great success by keeping it simple!  

I'm personally currently running my canister filter with just ever decreasing grades of foam and some ceramic media and the fish look great for it... as long as I remain on-top of the water changes and maintenance 



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## hitmanx

So without the overflow system functional, and only an AC30 and korelia 425 running, the water level in the tank decreased a little less than a 1/4 inch since yesterday... using some math that equates to about 1.5 gallons lost in 24hrs... thats a little more than I was hoping... The riparium plants arent even part of the system yet and I find they increase evaporation. .. 

Looks like a RO unit and a dehumidifier are in my future!


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## hitmanx

Progress and disquieting realizations...

The bean animal system works fantastic!! My return pump is only a temporary unit that is is supposed to pump 500gph but when accounting for the return pipes and head is probably closer to 250... I just dont think the bean animal system was designed for such low flow as I am having trouble tuning the sound in the open channel despite having a gate valve on the full siphon channel... one minute it's DEAD quiet and the next I can hear a trickle... I will most likely be using a eheim compact 3000 which pumps 700+ and I am hoping for 400gph into the display tank...

It took forever to realize that the easiest solution was the best plan... I have been racking my brain for a long time trying to figure out how to safely and easily  do a water change while combining tap water and RO water in this system... I have done several 100% water changes using a python but that was just tap water... The Simple Solution I came up with yesterday was to use the sump as the mixing container and the pump as a way to fill up the display tank... I just had to add a tube that came down to a bowl resting on the substrate and voila!





The system is now 54% RO water and 46% tap... but what I discovered is that even with the sump filled almost to the brim after all the water drains out of the return pipes, I only used 6 buckets of tap and and 7 jugs of RO for a total of 65 gallons in total!! How could this be? The inner dimensions of the tank allow for 66 gallons minus the coast to coast overflow and the sump itself is supposed to be 40 gallons which would bring me 41 gallons unaccounted for... Could my hardscape really take up that much space?

The Hydrocotyle sp."Japan" (Hydrocotyle tripartita)  and the Helanthium tenellum are taking over and the crypts are exploding but this week have shown signs of severe melt... bloody blahblahblahblah God dammit!





Half of the riparium plant have been added with more to come very soon!

Unfortunately filiamnetous diatoms and a little rhizoclonium have plagued the setup and I noticed today that some bga has begun to form smack in the middle of the tank on the substrate...


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## hitmanx

So I finally installed gutter guard on the coast to coast overflow... all the fish I added to the tank, endlers, otocinclus and a dwarf African frog have taken the water slide down to the sump albeit with no ill effects...

With a 42 inch weir, regular plastic gutter guard didn't have enough rigidity to stay in place so I zip tied it to eggcrate and it works very well at preventing any more unwanted rides but now the bean animal drain system has been negatively affected... the riparium planters are creating a bottle neck of water flow between the siphon and open standpipe sections... the planter is blocking the most of the flow as its very close to the eggcrate which I did not account for when designing the overflow... the water is higher around the open pipe and lower around the siphon... so no matter how much I adjust the siphon flow with the gate valve I always have too much water trickling down the open standpipe creating unwanted noise... the system still works, it's just noisy!

I've almost completed the main riparium section, with only the accent plants on or around the emersed driftwood wood to contend with... here I will add moss, ferns, Ficus pumila, creeping jenny and orchids... frog bit and Salvinia natans will finish off the water margins and hopefully deter the fish from jumping out of the water... I have already had 2 endlers commit suicide thus far...

After the big water change and reducing the light duration to 6 hours and dimming the lights to 75% all algae has subsided... the crypts have stopped melting but a lot of the leaves have weird pin holes...

I'm very close to adding all remaining livestock and taking down all my nano tanks!!

I'll take some pictures later...


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## hitmanx

Just a couple more marginal plants on the right side and the background planting is done... 





I filled a hair net with long fibre sphagnum peat moss and draped it over the back of the middle stump and then draped the roots of the maiden hair fern over that and then tied it down with cotton thread... we shall see if this method works because the riparium planter did not... anyone have any suggestions for proper transition of maiden hair fern to riparium conditions? 





Here's the first inhabitants, a trio of Tiger Endlers... unfortunately one of the females commuted suicide...





The gutter guard stops the critters from taking the water slide down to the sump...





The eggcrate keeps the gutter guard rigid, but also takes up more room in the overflow...





Just like on my cube riparium I employed the use of HOB breeder boxes to extend the riparium section...





Small pumps in the overflow fill the boxes and then discharges back but unfortunately it increases the noise of the system... I need to find a way to muffle the flow...


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## hrishi007

Love it


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## ajadcock

She's a beaut!  

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## Daveslaney

Fantastic
Great project.


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## hitmanx

I just tested the water tonight... ph 7.2, Kh 2, Gh 10

All the fish are going in this weekend! WOOOOO OOOOOOO!

All the nanos will be decommissioned, the random equipment and mess that has accumulated in the making of this tank will be stored away, and I can once again have peace and tranquility...

Once the tank has settled in, I can turn my attention to completing the light fixture housing and skinning the stand...


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## hitmanx

I added 3 Gold ring danios (brachydanio tinwini) and 12 Emerald dwarf rasboras (celestichthys erythromycin)  last night and for the most part they are settling in nicely... all 12 emeralds are completely hidden which they are amazing at doing... I had a hard time moving them cause they would hide in the smallest of spaces between equipment etc...

Unfortunately one of the emeralds made it into the overflow and one of the danios made it all the way to the sump... I guess the gutter guard doesn't stop micro fish... here's to hoping it was a one time thing!

Scratch that! I just checked the sump again and there's at least a half dozen of the buggers down in the sump... bloody blahblahblahblah God dammit!


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## hitmanx

All fish are in!!

Wow, was that ever hard catching all these fish from my nano tanks...

4 Otocinclus sp.
1 Dwarf African frog (Hymenochirus boettgeri)
2 Tiger Endlers (Poecilia_ wingei x)_
19 Gold Ring Danios (Brachydanio tinwini)
12 Emerald Dwarf Rasboras (Celestichthys erythromycin)
12 Celestial Pearl Danios (Celestichthys Margaritatus)
17 Glowlight Danios  (Celestichthys choprae)
3 Pygmy Corys (Corydoras pygmaeus)

Here's a video of them exploring the open middle section:


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## Gill

Great Tank Looks amazing.
Question, where did you source these little cubes from. As the cheapest i have found them in £8.49 each. Thanks


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## GHNelson

Lovely build.....great project


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## hitmanx

Gill said:


> Great Tank Looks amazing.
> Question, where did you source these little cubes from. As the cheapest i have found them in £8.49 each. Thanks



It's a mix of home made acrylic boxes, Interdesign suction cup containers ($6-8 CAD) from Canadian Tire and amazon and purpose built planters by AquaVerdi ($10 USD)... I couldn't find a source for appropriate size clay balls that most people use so I just used Seachem Matrix in the planters which of course acts as a secondary filter media...


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## Gill

Thanks, I am going to be using mine to hold Daphnia and Halfbeak fry_ (If i get any)_


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## hitmanx

Gill said:


> Thanks, I am going to be using mine to hold Daphnia and Halfbeak fry_ (If i get any)_



Sorry are you talking about the breeder boxes? These are from www.Angelfins.ca... they are of Japanese make, Sudobox I think... they range is size and price from $13 to $27CAD

The riparium planters have lots of holes in them...


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## Robert H. Tavera

Good proyect !! Nice submersed and emerged planted areas. Beautiful fish too. 


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## hitmanx

69 fish all swimming around in the tank is amazing to watch! I've waited a long time for this...

It's funny to see the otos swim from one end to the next and for some reason 20 or 30 of the danios and pygmy cories all in tow... 

Unfortunately even the biggest of the Celestial Pearl danios and a whole host of others have made it down to the sump... I guess I have to find another material to block the overflow but if I go any smaller in the opening size I risk creating an overflow situation if it gets clogged with crud, not to mention louder flow... grrrrr


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## hitmanx

I'm still trying to figure out the best method for the overflow... in the mean time at least 2/3rds of the fish have made it down to the sump... they're just chilling down there waiting for me...

Unfortunately one of the brachydanio tinwini got his tail stuck in the gutter guard and didn't make it... and I have my first jumper - a celestichthys choprae dried up on the floor...

I think temporarily I'm going to string some extra nylon window screen material I have across the overflow to prevent the fish water slide...


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## hitmanx

So I still can't get all the fish out of the sump... these little bastards are quick and hide so well... but on a good note there's a bunch of babies down there too!

I figure at least half of the fish are still in the sump... I try to remove one or two per day...

I ended up using #7 plastic canvas to block the overflow weir... this of course makes the holes much smaller so the fish will not going down anymore but the flow is affected with a rise in water level... it will be easy to clog too as the dead leaves, Salvinia and duckweed get stuck... I will have to monitor it constantly... I'm trying to source #5 plastic canvas which has bigger holes also in black so it blends in better...

One unfortunate side effect of smaller holes has been an accumulation of surface scum... the coast to coast weir is severely hindered now in this respect... it's like overflow teeth which aren't  efficient at skimming the surface...

Now the reason I have surface scum is probably due to the fact that most of the pygmy chain sword (e. Tenellus) has melted back... I fear that with all the mass of riparium plants I am not fertilizing enough... but it could be the substrate too... the roots are fine but most of the leaves have melted... they sit where the light is the most intense so they must need more food... I did miss a week of ferts so maybe that was it...

I added half dozen Amano shrimp and I had another brachydanio tinwini commit suicide... one of the pygmy cories looks pregnant... I haven't seen the African dwarf frog in ages...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Looking great


----------



## hitmanx

I added 5 more pygmy cories and a zebra oto (Otocinclus cocama) last night... I also transfered all the syngonium into the extra AquaVerdi riparium planters I had... the wide suction cup ones I was using had crappy suction cups so I was using stainless steel s-hooks that hooked on the overflow glass... but the plastic canvas addition on the weir made it very hard to do... problem solved

I also ordered some more smaller suction cup planters from amazon for the one that was causing the block in the overflow and also to put in the HOB breeder boxes for the cat palm (Chamaedorea cataractarum) and a half dead umbrella palm (cyperus alternifolius).

The surface scum is covering the floating plants and is making it so they are not staying on top of the water surface and subsequently dieing and probably making the scum worse... perhaps long term, floating plants are not gonna work in this setup as they also hinder the surface scum from getting to the overflow... the Salvinia and duckweed is definitely  gonna clog up the overflow anyways so it probably best to get rid of it... the frog bit is doing better...

I'll get some pictures up soon...


----------



## Eduard18

Amazing ! A living and ever changing project !


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## hitmanx

And the fish go jumping one by one hurrah! HURRAH!

The celestichthys choprae have a death wish.. lost another one today... I moved my lone female orange Lyretail Kili (Aphyosemion australe) in an she doesn't like certain fish near her 'spot'... she made 2 female endlers jump yesterday...

All of the riparium planters are in and filled and now I just need to fill out the empty spaces with accent plants etc...






The pygmy chain sword (e. Tenellus) has stopped dying but it's still looking pretty rough... a couple days ago the surface scum was so bad the entire surface was translucent white... YUKK!

I realized that one of the planters was blocking the surface flow in the front right so it couldn't go around the stumps to the back overflow... obviously this was a choking point for scum... all I did was move the planter and boom! All the scum is gone!









There's a terrible bald spot where the tenellus used to be... I was thinking of dwarf sag to replace it but it might get too tall here...





The new fish and shrimp additions are doing well, but I think I may focus on the Celestial Pearl danios population... either by purchase or breeding... simple reason? They don't jump... I am also going to add another pair of orange Lyretail as a centre piece fish... I originally wanted somethjng bigger and more interesting  (not that the males aren't spectacular) but anything bigger will probably decimate my planned cherry shrimp population... I might be adding a small shoal of glass catfish as they from Myanmar as well but they may distort the sense of scale here...





I need to clean the front glass as hydra have made quite a colony there so it's hazy... I don't want to jinx it but algae has not appeared since adjusting the lights... but I think I still need to up the ferts to account for the huge section of riparium plants...


----------



## Kezzab

Eee Chihuahua! Looks ace.


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Absolutely amazing green corner!


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## MrHidley

Beautiful, what a great mixture of textures.


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## hitmanx

Thanks. I know I've been saying this for awhile, but I'm going to get my DSLR out and take some good pics... these cellphone cameras blow the highlights to easy... all the syngonium ends up being white!


----------



## hitmanx

I was playing around with the settings on my S7 edge phone and I came up with some better exposure but still not as good as DSLR...

This is my view from my computer desk...


----------



## hitmanx




----------



## chuanvaldes

Absolutely amazing tank! One of coolest aquarium/riparium tank I have ever seen!

Odesláno z mého Redmi Note 2 pomocí Tapatalk


----------



## Robbie X

Stunning 
What did you use as the baseboard for the tank? Is it marine ply?


----------



## Smells Fishy

Got some really good vibes from this, it's been really inspirational reading it all through. Is this project finished or is there still more to add?


----------



## hitmanx

Robbie X said:


> Stunning
> What did you use as the baseboard for the tank? Is it marine ply?



The tank is sitting on yoga mat on cabinet grade maple plywood with BIN 123 primer...


----------



## hitmanx

Things are not looking good for this tank... most of the h. Tripartita has died back for some reason and it and the Helanthium tenellum has been overrun by a thick blackish algae in the middle of the tank... too much light? Not enough ferts despite adding on a weekly basis? The front carpet looks terrible... but some of the h. Tripartita has actually started to grow emersed in the back...

Perhaps the riparium plants are just taking too much nutrients from the water... it's hard to keep a balance between the submerged and emersed plant needs... the fastest grower is the Ficus pumila and I've heard it's a huge nutrients hog... the syngonium doesn't like the riparium planters as the stems are rotting off where they didnt before when they were in the shower caddies...

 I think it's time to do a siphon clean as mulm has started to accumulate on the substrate and in the bottom of the sump... I have not actually done a water change yet... just filled the sump with 5 gallons of RO water per week due to evaporation...

I moved around some of the riparium plants but I'm not sure if I like the changes... I'll get some pictures up after I do some housekeeping...

At least a dozen fish have jumped out and I usually find them after I've done maintenance on the tank... I guess I'm spooking them... the only babies I've seen are from the endlers down in the sump... speaking of the sump there still at least a half dozen or more fish down there that I cannot catch... mostly celestichthys erythromycin... they are so fast and so good at hiding... perhaps I will take everything out of the sump when I clean it so they can't hide...

I still need to get a more powerful pump for this tank as I'm using a 550gph pump currently and I think it's not powerfull enough to fully balance the bean animal system... I cannot get it quiet!


----------



## Sweded

Show us a picture of the algae. Too much light, not enough CO2 and ferts sound plausible. Maybe high organics on top of that.


----------



## Kezzab

I had similar ish issues with my sump tank. I had not cleaned the filter foam in the sump for probably 4 months, having been seduced by the mattenfilter propaganda. The sump then started backing up because the foam was blocked. So I cleaned everything and very quickly saw big reduction in that black furry algae that was smothering plants.

Suggest cleaning and some proper water changes before you start with more this, less that etc.


----------



## alto

hitmanx said:


> think it's time to do a siphon clean as mulm has started to accumulate on the substrate and in the bottom of the sump... I have not actually done a water change yet... just filled the sump with 5 gallons of RO water per week due to evaporation...


I suspect this is a major contributor
- while you somejtimes get just the right balance in a tank from the start & tank self regulates algae, this is a rare happening 

Visible mulm generally means significant organic load in the water column which tends to be a nice benefit for algae 

It's a lovely idea that going with a "celestial swamp" would balance submerse & emerse plants & provide brilliant clear water (& likely someone's done just that  ) but it ain't easy   

I play around with low tech window nano tanks, some have virtually no algae, others have become swamps & recovered   & others have been broken down & restarted


----------



## hitmanx

Thanks guys... I figured this to be the case... I'll get some pictures up tonight and get ready for a good cleaning... I suspect the transition from growing environments for all these plants and the inevitable rotting of some roots and leaves and the shear mass of decaying plant matter despite trying my best to clean and collect the dead stuff, has contributed to higher organics... 

I just hope a water change doesn't disrupt the water chemistry too much... I'll start with a 30% change..


----------



## hitmanx

Here is the algae:










And here's a "moon light" shot... itshe actually darker than it looks...


----------



## Kezzab

Also... i have Pearl Danios in the tank, they were a poor choice because the jump. However, i have a completely unproven theory that the amount of jumping is related to water quality. I started with 20 and there was a fairly high suicide rate, since cleaning etc as above the "leap to their death" rate has dropped noticeably. As I said, completely unproven
And give it a good bit of time after you clean, a couple of weeks, before you judge the effectiveness.


----------



## Kezzab

just seen your pics properly, algae looks identical to what I had (and still have a bit!).


----------



## alto

There's no doubt that fish will jump n search of ,better" environs (can be water quality related or behavioural stressors ... just don't ask me to find the journal links  - though Darrel may have them at the ready )





hitmanx said:


> I just hope a water change doesn't disrupt the water chemistry too much... I'll start with a 30% change..


A good start
Physically remove as much algae as possible - at this stage it looks like trimming will be most of what you do (leafs that heavily infiltrated with algae are useless to plant now anyway) - H tenellus & H tripartita are both capable of fairly rapid recovery IF conditions support this

I'd do 25-30% daily water changes for the next week, thenalternate day, then twice weekly - then settle on a once weekly 60-70% water change & continue with this until plants are thriving for a few weeks before considering reducing water change schedule
At each water change, remove debris & any algae, spot treat with liquid carbon (Seachem Excel etc) if appropriate (can't recall what's in tank exactly), I'd also add a daily dose of Excel etc for it's algacide benefits  (some plants will also utilize as a carbon source) 

For fertilation of tank, again daily is better option than weekly, you should be able to tell from submerse plant growth if they are getting much/enough or if the emerse growth is stealing it all - also trim this back to improve lighting for substrate plants or add a directed spotlight (think kessil style, though lots of other options as water column is shallow)

If you're getting it right, tank should look noticeable greener after 1-2 weeks ... again if CO2 supplied submerse plants will respond quicker

Whose on your algae patrol?


----------



## Doubu

alto said:


> There's no doubt that fish will jump n search of ,better" environs (can be water quality related or behavioural stressors ... just don't ask me to find the journal links  - though Darrel may have them at the ready )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A good start
> Physically remove as much algae as possible - at this stage it looks like trimming will be most of what you do (leafs that heavily infiltrated with algae are useless to plant now anyway) - H tenellus & H tripartita are both capable of fairly rapid recovery IF conditions support this
> 
> I'd do 25-30% daily water changes for the next week, thenalternate day, then twice weekly - then settle on a once weekly 60-70% water change & continue with this until plants are thriving for a few weeks before considering reducing water change schedule
> At each water change, remove debris & any algae, spot treat with liquid carbon (Seachem Excel etc) if appropriate (can't recall what's in tank exactly), I'd also add a daily dose of Excel etc for it's algacide benefits  (some plants will also utilize as a carbon source)
> 
> For fertilation of tank, again daily is better option than weekly, you should be able to tell from submerse plant growth if they are getting much/enough or if the emerse growth is stealing it all - also trim this back to improve lighting for substrate plants or add a directed spotlight (think kessil style, though lots of other options as water column is shallow)
> 
> If you're getting it right, tank should look noticeable greener after 1-2 weeks ... again if CO2 supplied submerse plants will respond quicker
> 
> Whose on your algae patrol?



As per Alto, manually remove everything. Algae from my experience can be suppressed by strong plant growth. It looks like your current plants aren't taking off. If that's the case, I would actually reduce light period or intensity (monitor effects) and make sure that plants are growing before dosing. I would stop dosing altogether and just make sure that you have adequate gH (3-4). If your plants arent using the light, something will (in other words algae).


----------



## hitmanx

Yesterday before the trim...





With risk of being flamed, I have to say no... I will not be engaging in the suggested water change regime... these are my opinions and I welcome discussion...

While I do agree that a regular water change schedule is needed in many circumstances, I cannot agree that this is one of them... there simply isn't enough of a bioload to justify such a drastic schedule... cleaning the mulm etc will be a priority but a long term regular change schedule will not…

I will concede that I should have made a more conscious effort to watch out for higher organics but mainly from rotting plants as they transitioned... I will point out that all of the plants were doing amazing with lush growth all over… but over time the plants died back, mainly the Hydrocotyle tripartita, before the algae hit, not after… and this coincided with the time the riparium plants began to take off…


The water parameters checked out and the fish and shrimp were happy… and take any massively open top tank and show an example of jumping prone fish NOT jumping… it's a matter of them feeling comfortable… as time has progressed the riparium and floating plants have covered the margins and therefore have given the fish a more closed in feel and suicides have dropped… it also didn't help having an aggressive female Lyretail that relentlessly chased any other fish…


My point is that it's not impossible to find a balance for a tank and I just don't subscribe to the throw as much water at it as you can method as a blanket statement for all problems… I'm sure you can find many examples of such tanks also fraught with algae… it's a different story for high a bioload where fish welfare is priority...


The shear biomass of plants that sustain themselves from this tank on the outside dwarf the average tanks submerged growth… take all your plants in you best tank and render them down into a jar and you will find that they don't actually take up that much space… the mass just isn't there…


There has to be more complicated variables at play here that need to be experimented with… soil redox? Ferts? To much light? Plant competition? I did add a bunch of Ficus pumila before the submerged growth started going down hill and I've heard that it's a nutrient hog… is the assumption that the cause is high organics just because of mulm accumulation? Or the actuall algae species?


Anyways, I sucked all the mulm I could find and cut a lot of the algae leaves out and changed out 30% of the water…


I will do so again in 2 days and see where I am at… i will be cleaning out the poret filter this week too... hopefully I haven't offended anyone...


----------



## Kezzab

I'm mortally.offended. Take it back, damn you.


----------



## hitmanx

I offended you with my opinion?

You should hear the ones I keep to myself 

(Sarcasm... just in case I offended you)


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## leetaylor

Algea is a git! have you tried a black out? the plants should survive it better than the algea


----------



## hitmanx

leetaylor said:


> Algea is a git! have you tried a black out? the plants should survive it better than the algea



Blackout would be impossible...


----------



## alto

hitmanx said:


> is the assumption that the cause is high organics just because of mulm accumulation?


Why do you think this is not a valid assumption?



hitmanx said:


> 40 lbs of ADA Malaya, 30 lbs of ADA Amazonia, 70 lbs of safe t sorb, 1 lb of ground peat moss, 1 lb of Mexican pottery clay


this is a hint as to why organics may be an issue, especially an "imbalance" - look at any ADA shop & they'll suggest water changes as the road to redemption 



hitmanx said:


> While I do agree that a regular water change schedule is needed in many circumstances, I cannot agree that this is one of them... there simply isn't enough of a bioload to justify such a drastic schedule...


You mentioned you'd done no water changes on the tank since set up, so it's my assumption that any minerals, organic compounds etc not removed by the emergent plants will be accumulating in the water column & soil (depending on binding affinity) - as you've been topping up with RO, there won't be accumulations from evaporating tap water but consider your fertilizer salts, eg, if potassium is supplied as potassium chloride, where's the chloride going?
also your starting components ...
This is independent of any livestock considerations 

In addition established algae can be quite persuasive at discouraging nearby plant growth - again if any of these factors are being released into the water column, water change is the simplest method of dilution/removal




hitmanx said:


> soil redox?


That's like chasing the mice out of the garden when you've got a herd of cows standing in there (& doing all the things that a herd of cows might do in a garden   ... of course it's unlikely you've had this experience so my analogy might fall flat  )


Light & nutrients, especially Carbon, then the supporting nutrients usually added in "fertilizer" preparations are the main factors ... you make it sound as if the thriving plant growth died back rapidly with no time to intervene 
& now the underwater "plant" life is dominated by algae & mulm

How have you been altering light & fertilization as the tank has matured?


Finding the balance in a tank is what most of us are striving for - your tank that once had thriving aquatic plants has shifted far from its previous "balance" - water changes are a simple & swift way to reset that balance, to move the aquatic environs away from the present dominating factors (which may be varied or limited, there's too little information to guess which might prevail)
It's much more difficult (complex) to balance a virtual closed system than one with flow (water changes)





hitmanx said:


> The shear biomass of plants that sustain themselves from this tank on the outside dwarf the average tanks submerged growth… take all your plants in you best tank and render them down into a jar and you will find that they don't actually take up that much space… the mass just isn't there…



I agree emerse growth can easily outmass submerse growth, but isn't this why trimming & adjusting the types of emerse growth is vital to sustaining the (desired) system
 - I've a tendency to allow my submerse growth to go "jungle" - even in just the 60cm x 45cm tank, it easily fills a bucket rather than a jar


----------



## alto

hitmanx said:


> hopefully I haven't offended anyone...


& back at ya


----------



## zozo

Lately listened an interview with a professional fish breeder about the importance of filtration.. He told a lot has changed in general consensus and views during the last decades. Mainly by trail and error.. He told a story about a Colleague professional  fish breeder who had health issues and a lot of unexplained fish deaths. Water tests came out perfectly clean it was not a chemical issue and it remained a big mystery for a long time why a lot of his fish became sick and died.. At that time the general consensus was that very large biological filtration systems were self supporting and maintenance free. Still after searching and trying alot, he descided to clean out the filtration system. 

And that was the solution to his problem, no more fish death. He did put it to the test with leaving the filter as is for a long period of time and the problems started again. Further investigation revealed his filter system was an accumulation and breeding ground of pathogens causing the fish diseases, while chemicaly the water stayed in perfect condition.

This fish breeders experience was the exeption that proved the rule and caused a change of general consensus among the fish breeders views about the importancy of cleaning filter systems.. Obviously a self supporting and maintenece free filtraion system doesn't realy excist regarding pathogens. The others not suffering from this issues till then, likely just have been lucky yet not having caught any pathogens in their system. 

The same goes for the idea of not seeing  the necessity of doing water changes.. It is not a matter of accumulating chemicals but accumulating pathogens in the tank and filter. At the point you find out you did, fish will get sick and die.

From this point of view, not only filter cleaning but also water changes are a necessity to prevent your closed system from becomming a pathogen breeding box..  That's the flame you rather need to worry about.

But it's a very beatifull Paludarium you got there.. Lots of luck and succes..


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

Big regular water changes in my experience have have been the best way to negate and minimize algae, I do a 50% water changes weekly in all my tanks no matter the stocking and dosing levels, I can get a bit slack with filter cleaning but I have to say regular water changes really help. Also RE CPDs being jumper I keep them in a open top tank and have never had one jump, I keep 50 rasboras in a different open top tank (filled within 5mm of the rim) and again never had a single fish jump, perhaps I am just lucky, perhaps they like a nice reset in the water weekly and stick around


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

And I should say, really lovely tank, I do hope the submersed plants bounce back for you!


----------



## hitmanx

Sorry for the delay in responding… I appreciate everyone's suggestions and comments.... I apologize if I'm rambling 


I do agree that water changes are useful and sometimes mandatory to reset a system that has higher accumulations of any number of substances… I guess I didn't mention that after the long dry start method where the plants grew massively, I did many 100% water changes to leech any remaining organics from the system but perhaps it wasn't enough… it was then that I stopped doing water changes as per the Tom Barr non co2 method like I've done many times before and everything was fine for a long time... but once the the riparium plants started to take off things changed but then again it might be just coincidence because of accumulation over time…


Riparium plant growth was exploding but the submerged growth was slowing in most but not all plants… but they didn't show signs of obvious deficiency so it was confusing me… the whole idea of a shallow wide riparium is that there CAN be equal lighting for submerged and riparium plants where the former isn't shaded by the latter… so as the riparium plants grow the lighting doesn't change under the water… so now I ask myself is there too much or not enough light?


the Hydrocotyle tripartita is 95% gone now and only growing above the water surface along the driftwood… the e. Tenellus in the brightest section has always done well but the e. Tenellus ‘green’ has suffered the most with the algae as well as the lilaeopsis mauritania… and the crypts under the brightest lights have melted where the crypts under the shadows have been just fine…


I have not altered the ferts since day one and I have been using the concentrations outlined by the non co2 method which has worked well before… if the riparium plants were taking it all wouldn't I see obvious signs of deficiency not just slow growth and algae? Why would the e. Tenellus be bright green and growing compact while other plants are covered in algae? What's happening just doesn't make sense to me in my experiences…


After manual removal and water changes and gravel vac  things were looking better, but after returning from a trip I came home to a new kind of algae - brown filamentous diatoms! During the last water change I drained too much of the display tank and while filling it back up I stirred up the safe t sorb in the back which may have added too much silicates into the water column…


It comes off easy and is slimy so I sucked it out with and airline hose and some small water changes… it's still growing slowly but it is manageable and apparently blackouts are suggested but again that would be nearly impossible with a riparium setup like this… it was even clogging the overflow guards thus raising the water level...


I'm also starting to think substrate ferts are inadequate as most of the submerged plants are root feeders… the only stem I have is h. Polysperma and it's doing very well with no signs of deficiency and rapid growth… but that doesn't account for the failure of the h. Tripartita…


Yesterday I added several pots of Echinodorus Quadricostatus and Echinodorus latifolius to back of the carpet section and 4 pots of Staurogyne repens spread around, some in brighter and some in darker sections… I also added some more random stems with different growing needs to try and see what works…


Today I'm adding another Hydor koralia on the opposite side to improve the circular flow of the tank because the front sections seem to be lacking… I also removed some random wood I had in the back that was disrupting the flow from the other koralia… I want to make sure I have enough flow to get the crud in suspension so it takes the trip down to the sump without settling on the substrate… I also need to upgrade my return pump as it is lacking...


Unfortunately I haven't found the time to actually clean the sump and filter yet… that's my next priority and very well could be my Achilles heal at the moment… i also dimmed the LED light intensity from 75% to 65%... I know I'm changing so much at once and therefore may not be able to ascertain the true cause of my woes, but I don't want my tank to look so ‘dirty’ anymore… the riparium section is amazing and I just want the submerged section be just as lush…


I've had no more jumpers, but the female tiger endler has ceased to exist, but not before shooting out a bunch of babies…


Anyways I'll keep you all updated on my progress... I will also take pictures to show you the lighting and where it hits the substrate... come to think of it the main growth of the h. Tripartita has actually before kind of shaded over so maybe that contributed to its demise...


----------



## hitmanx

Here is what I came home to last week:






My best guess is that its Brown filamentous diatoms or Synedra... I sucked it all out and it hasn't really come back too much..


----------



## hitmanx

Here's some pictures of the light spread over the riparium... plenty of light gets to the substrate but is it too much without co2?


----------



## Daveslaney

The emersed growth looks fantastic. I would guess to get the same lush growth on your submerged plants and combat the algae under the high light you will need to go co2,Its the only limiting factor to your submerged plant growth?.


----------



## mort

Sorry I haven't had a chance to read any of this thread and its the first time I've seen it (but earmarked for further reading later) but its such a great system, especially the riparium section. One day i'd like to emulate, or at least take inspiration from this.


----------



## hitmanx

Also I wanted to ask anyone who has had better sucess with cyperus alternafolia  'gracilus', whether more ambient humity is necessary... despite good growth overall, alot of the leaves start to look ratty pretty quickly


----------



## hitmanx

After a LONG time where the Maidenhair fern just sitting there and the lower branches drying up it has suddenly started throwing up new shoots... it's now doubling in size...

I wrapped the rhizome and roots in sphagnum moss and a hair net and tied it to the top of the driftwood so the moss soaks up the water...


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> cyperus alternafolia


Is a very hardy plant and grows about everywhere you put it as long as it is wet.. It's leafs can take up  to -2°C and the rootstock can take up to -8°C. All tho this plant is perennial in tropical regions, it is a flowering plant and part of it's life cycle, it goes through different growth stages, starting as young elongating culms with closed umbels, then elongating culms with umbels just opening, fully elongated culms and fully expanded umbels, senescent culms and finally dead culms. Even if you dont get it to flower and cary seed, culms will die at the end of it's life cycle. 

I have it standing in the garden in a filter basket in the tub and it does the same as what yours does, tho mine flowered and is throwing seeds already. I trim all dying culms out and take it inside before the frost kills it. That way it stays alive and grows on new culms from it's rhizome every year.

And it is an extremely hungry plant, there for very popular as helophyte for waste water treatment, if it is a deficiency it likely isn't a humidity deficiency..


----------



## hitmanx

Okay so each "stem" of the cyperus has a life cycle so cutting is mandatory... there is a equal mix of good growth and ratty growth...

That makes this plant annoying to me because it's hard to get back to this plant to cut the old stems off... it's nearly 3ft back and very dense growth from the roots... any idea how long the life cycle is for each stem? I'm trying to decide whether to keep it or dump it... I don't want something thats going to need constant cutting for it to look nice... I have enough stuff maintain on this tank...

Maybe I need something else back there... but it does fill a large space...


----------



## zozo

It'l live till after flowering and making seeds, after that it dies and new culms take it over.. I have no indoor and or under artificial light source experience with this plant. I only make it survive the winter under very low light in the cellar.. So i do know nothing about flower development and life cycle in these conditions. Your picture also doesn't show clear flowering. And also no idea of life time if conditions are not suficient to make it flower. But even if it doesn't get polinated, it's life cycle isn't indefinitely. It is commonly available in about every garden centre as indoor houseplant.. Maybe a caretaker in the gardencentre can tell you much more about care in indoor conditions. It can grow bigger than 3 feet.. Outdoors in the sun it goes on and on about the whole summer.

Old one about done and full of seeds




Mean while another fresh young one still developing.





Maybe a Cyperus helferi would be a beter option stays a tad smaller, a bit more elegant and also grows submersed..



I remember James Findley planted it emersed in his Tributary scape.. (Far right front corner)

Tho never found an updated video or picture, because this plant grows bigger than what the video shows, this must be shortly after setting it up.


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> And it is an extremely hungry plant, there for very popular as helophyte for waste water treatment, if it is a deficiency it likely isn't a humidity deficiency..



I have 2 kinds of cyperus Alternafolia... the smaller 'gracilus' is what I have in the tank... it definitely tops out at under 2 to 3ft... the other grows and grows...


----------



## hitmanx

There is some of the first algae left on the liliaeopsis and e. Tenellus 'green' and some of the Brown filamentous diatoms or Synedra here and there but nothing like before...

I was reading that maybe the ohka or dragonstone may leech out silicates for along time and therefore triggering the diatoms... it's so funny that when you add so many variables to a tank any number of them can conspire to ruin your day...

I also forgot to mention that this is day 3 of using excel in the tank... I wanted to see if it made a difference on the algae and also to help the new plant additions along... I'm using it as per the recommended doses... let's hope the whole thing doesn't crash when I stop using it...

I really am changing to many things at once... if it does get better I won't know why!!


----------



## hitmanx

I did some water testing tonight for the first time since march... not much of a change since then...

Ph 7.4-7.6
Kh 3°
Gh 13°
No3 5ppm
Tds 410ppm
Temp 22°C

This seems to be normal for my water when I cut it down 50/50 with RO... The interesting thing is the nitrates... my previous larger tank that lasted 3 years hovered around 100+ppm but did not have any riparium plants to soak anything up... fish and plants did well but new livestock additions didn't fare too well...

I may need to increase my dosing... maybe my ferts are in fact the limiting factor... I just need to let the tank settle in for more efficient co2 uptake without injection... as in continue the non co2 method but increase the dosing to reflect the higher needs of the riparium plants... 

At a later date I can test again and keep the nitrates down if they creep up... anyways this journal seems to be only airing out my dirty laundry... I need to start sharing the success of this tank with better pictures and the specifics of the system!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> I was reading that maybe the ohka or dragonstone may leech out silicates for along time and therefore triggering the diatoms.


It won't be the rock, diatoms are incredibly efficient at sequestering silicon (Si), but they can only use it as <"orthosilicic acids">, and quartz (SiO2) isn't soluble.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

The algae that was left on the liliaeopsis and e. Tenellus 'green' has bloomed again... i think its time mow it all down to the stubs... the synedra is still clumping here and there... i hope it goes away soon... i was not able to keep the 2nd Hydor korelia running as the flow was pushing all the frogbit to the right side of the tank where it wouldn't get enough light... the left side still needs more flow so I'm not sure what to do yet... 

I'm slowly working away building up the riparium display... the Syngonium and Spathiphyllum 'petite' is serving as the backbone of the planting with accent plants in front and behind... the three driftwood stumps from left to right are occupied by Lysimachia nummularia 'aurea', the Maiden hair fern with moss and emmersed H. triprtita in the middle, and the largest stump on the right is overgrown by Ficus pumila... the cutleaf philodendron (Monstera deliciosa) has become so big and heavy its fallen down behind the tank... my plan is to install hooks on the wall to guide its path from right to left as a background for the entire display...





All of the Hygrophila angustifolia that came from my previous tanks has been converted to emmersed growth with the stems rooted in the substrate and some reaching more than a foot above the water surface... they have nice flowers but overall the plants smell like goats or sheep... very odd... they act as a great transition plant between the riparium and submersed sections...





These are one of the fastest growing plants in the tank so i am able to spread them round bit...





I need to try and cover the remaining section of plastic canvas acting as a overflow guard thats still visible... the white is very distracting... i have not been able to find it in black... i'm thinking of adding in a trellis raft with more L. nummularia to blur the transition between land water


----------



## hitmanx

I forgot to mention that i have changed my fert schedule...instead of once per week, I am now splitting up the doses on alternate days... monday / thursday macros + equilibrium and wednesday / saturday chelated iron with the possibility of a regular 10% water change per week at least until i don't need to keep sucking out this damn algae!!

Also, do most of my pictures have blueish hue to them? I really need to start taking pictures with my DSLR...

I really wish i would have added a gate valve to the return pipe... when i clean the filter one of these days, i'll have to disconnect the pump and when that happens a good 15 gallons+ goes down into the sump and could take fish with it... of course this happens during a power failure too... i've made due with placing a piece of plastic over the outflow to stop the siphon down into the sump but just like everything else, the riparium plants make getting to the back much harder...


----------



## gltjc

Beautiful tank. What a great combination of leaf shapes and sizes in the emersed section!


----------



## hitmanx

I finally broke out the DSLR and took some pictures...

I'm a little rusty so be nice...

Tiger Endler





Brachydanio tinwini

















Unfortunately the Celestichthys margaritatus, Celestichthys erythromicron, and Brachydanio choprae are camera shy at the moment and move to fast... I need to increase the light and use a flash to get a clear picture of them...


----------



## techfool

hitmanx said:


> I finally broke out the DSLR and took some pictures...
> 
> I'm a little rusty so be nice...]



Lovely pics. I love little fish.


----------



## hitmanx

Aphids!!


My emersed hygrophila angustifolia has aphids all over the new growth and it's making the plant all distorted looking… grrrrrrr


My hand have been in the tank alot recently and I've had a couple more jumpers for first-time in a long time… one Celestichthys margaritatus and one Brachydanio choprae…


I've decided to start my breeding program to get my numbers back up in this tank… even though I see fry from time to time they never survive… maybe it's the celestichthys erythromicron down in the sump having lunch or maybe it's the pump sucking them through the 10ppi poret foam , I don't know…


I haven't decided which way to breed yet… hang on or in tank mesh or separate tanks… it would be nice to utilize the space in the sump to save space and use the flow…


Anyone use these methods for my chosen species?


----------



## TheBubblingScot

I bet those aphids would make a yummy treat for your fishes.  XD 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hitmanx

TheBubblingScot said:


> I bet those aphids would make a yummy treat for your fishes.



Yes I have been brushing them off into the water and the fish come to gobble them up!


----------



## mort

I have choprae in my tank and I think it is these which pick off my pencilfish fry. I only ever seem to have a couple make it at a time. My plan over the summer was to move some adults to my nano and breed them there to bulk up the numbers. I think a separate tank is by far the easiest way to go as it's easier to control and stimulate spawning.


----------



## hitmanx

It has begun...


----------



## hitmanx

I tried catching some of the celestichthys margaritatus with a net the other day... it's almost impossible because 2/3rds of the tank is impenetrable hiding spots... It took me an hour to ambush one female so I decided to try out a bottle trap...





Every fish species except the cpds managed to get trapped in it, even the super cautious brachydanio choprae... I don't know how I'm going to start this breeding program if I can't get my hands on some fish... maybe I will try a bigger pop bottle

When I eventually trap more, they are going to live down in the sump in a plastic canvas pen I made up...





And when the fry grow out to a certain size in the buckets, I will put them in the little ziss breeder box also sitting in the sump...





I have four 2.5gallon buckets set up with cycled poret sponge filters, a wad of moss, a cup of Gravel, a cup of safe t sorb and a half cup of matrix as the substrate... I used tank water to fill them up and added some snails for good measure...





I will drop 2M/3F in at sunset and change some of the water... they should spawn in the morning and I will move them to the next bucket etc, then it's back into the sump pen for some cigarettes and a nap...

Even if I do one round of this I should get at least 20-40 fry or more... maybe I'll do it a couple more times and sell to my lfs...


----------



## hitmanx

I changed out the food in the bottle and hoped for the best... 20min later I had 3 brachydanio choprae, one of the celestichthys erythromicron and the ALPHA male celestichthys margaritatus!!!!

He has such beautiful deep red colours so hopefully he just as fertile!

Perhaps because I haven't fed them today they are getting more adventurous... let's hope at least 2 more females and it's on baby!

Cue the raunchy music!


----------



## hitmanx

I got two more!

A male and female cpd... only one more female to go!


----------



## mort

Can I ask what you baited the trap with? I'm really thinking I want to take out my choprae as since they have grown old and began to die off the remaining ones are becoming more aggressive. They were fine when I had 10 but since there are 5 I see so much chasing of my pencilfish and I don't want to add anymore choprae to dilute the problem.


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> Can I ask what you baited the trap with?.



I didn't feed the tank yesterday and just put a pinch of their normal food in the bottle... New Life Spectrum Thera +

I tried algae wafers but they just made a mess...


----------



## hitmanx

The maiden hair fern is going gang busters...


----------



## castle

did you get CPDs to spawn?

Just a little bit of advice, as I also bred them out 
I always found it easiest is to selectively take a plump female, and a male, leave them in another bucket/tank with the same water as their main tank and a lot of moss, then remove the CPDs in the morning - they always spawned.


----------



## hitmanx

No I wasn't successful at breeding... I tried leaving them in there with 2 females and 3 males for 2 or 3 days at a time... I got no fry

Then life got busy and I haven't tried again... I will try with your method... did you have filters going while they spawned?

I have had a bunch of brachydanio choprae spawn somewhere in the tank and I've collected the fry and have grown them out in breeder box and then moved them up to the main tank...


----------



## Edvet

Love the tank!
It looks like the one i have in my mind


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## hitmanx

As far as a tank update:

I'm still battling this ridiculous long diatoms algae in the submerged section... I'm starting to think it's because of high silicates or something in the store bought RO water I use for top offs... Our tap water here is just so full of crazy things! 

I just ordered a Spectrapure Maxcap 5 stage RO/DI system so I can make my own water and never have to buy transport and lug around 5 gallon jugs ever again... hopefully this will change some things for the better... a years worth of RO water covers the cost of the system so the convenience is just icing on the cake... 

I also ordered a Eheim compact 5000 for the return... this has way more flow than  the pond pump I've been using... I'm going to add an isolation valve to the return line so I can take out the pump for more efficient pump and filter cleaning...

I had to remove all the h. Angustifolia as the aphids were taking over... after trying to eat everything else and a long fought murder campaign I only see them occasionally now... i even released ladybugs in my basement to eat them with completely unknown results as they just flew away... lots of random spiders have taken residence on my riparium so maybe are helping too...

The frogbit is growing nuts too and I have to constantly throw bunches out or it clogs the surface flow and I get scum... an overflow system like this is a delicate balance when you have floating plants especially with the the plastic canvas blocking the across the whole weir...

The underwater section is slowly being taken over by h. Polysperma because it's less susceptible to alagae... but that's okay as it's bright green growth makes me happy... the longer the riparium section grows the more it overshadows the underwater section so it's a constant chore to keep the balance... even with this shallow and wide tank shape this still becomes a problem... crypts are only growing in the darkest areas now...

I think I need more lights to shine directly to the back riparium plants... the ones in the middle are growing too big especially the maiden hair fern and the balance is off... I was hoping the spathiphillum in the back would be growing bigger and faster...


----------



## hitmanx

I forgot to mention I have to constantly remove boat loads of some kind of black bacteria or fungus thats growing on the dark sections of the manzanita wood... not sure if this is normal or not... this wood has been submerged in water for 2years now... I'm not sure how long it's supposed to last

This kind of long term tank is an experiment in running a small ecosystem, especially when I try keep variables as constant as possible...


----------



## hitmanx

One thing I regret with the tank?

It's not big enough!! I should have gone 5 feet by 3 feet by 18 inches tall...


----------



## tam

It looks very cool! I'd love something like this one day.

Just a thought, don't know if it would be practical, but could you move the tank forward a bit from the walls so that there was more room for the emersed plants to spread evenly in both directions rather than just forward over the tank? That with some lightly directly above, which would also discourage lean toward the tank might let you keep the same plant mass but have less overshadowing?


----------



## hitmanx

tam said:


> Just a thought, don't know if it would be practical, but could you move the tank forward a bit from the walls so that there was more room for the emersed plants to spread evenly in both directions rather than just forward over the tank?



There's actually a fair bit of room behind the tank for growth... it comes down to light placement... what I need to do is add more lights directed on and angle to back and this should help the back plants growth...

The problem right now is the fact that the maiden hair fern is growing too large... it's at lease 10 times the size as it was last year and I just trimmed at least half of fronds last week... I wasn't expecting it to grow so large and it's essentially growing right in the middle of the tank on the driftwood, not from the overflow section... I can't even move it as it's attached


----------



## hitmanx

I'm really hoping that getting this RO/DI system up and running helps me control the water aspect of this system a little better... even if it doesn't improve anything, at least it will be far more convenient to make water rather than go buy it... i hook it up to the faucet and make water over night into a big reservoir and then add to the system as needed... this way I can also make sure I keep it topped up more regularly with out so much of a swing in water chemistry... sometimes I forgot to add top off water until 15 gallons evaporated especially in the dryer winter conditions... I swear I'm losing 3 gallons a day now


----------



## mort

My maidenhair took over as well. It grew to a couple of feet high and even wider. I trimmed it massively and moved it to the edge of the tank where it had room to flop over the side. It's now waiting for a new larger setup.


----------



## Edvet

hitmanx said:


> helps me control the water aspect of this system a little better


I have a permanent connection from a few of my tanks to the sewer so i can leave a RO system running water into the tank. Sadly a little late for your tank but perhaps you can make an extra small overflow on your Bean system and connect an RO system too (https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/nano-overflow.51607/) Maybe just to the garden or crawlspace


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## zozo

hitmanx said:


> what I need to do is add more lights directed on and angle to back and this should help the back plants growth...



Maybe not more lights but goosenecks on the excisting lights could solve this, so you can direct them where you need them the most. That's the thing with fixed lights and a non fixed dynamic growing tank, change it and later on change it again.
https://aliexpress.com/item/2pc-LED-table-lamp-holder-led-hose-gooseneck-Dia-10mm-metal-holder-400mm-600mm-head-screw/32331599267.html

With the excact same issue in mind for my tank setup i came up with a rod with several spot lights mounted to it.. They can twist and turn and slide in the dircetion its needed and give certain planted areas in the tank a higher intensity. In my case i have a lily next to a bunch of anubias. Now i can redirect light away from the anubias and bundle more to the lily. And each spot is seperately dimmable. But this can also be solved with spots in different wattage.

I have another setup in mind where i also plan to use these goosenecks.  For the same purpose direct the light where i need it.  Also handy after a rescaping..


----------



## hitmanx

Edvet said:


> I have a permanent connection from a few of my tanks to the sewer so i can leave a RO system running water into the tank.



So you have a constant supply of RO water running into your tank all the time?

Any idea what your water usage is in this case?


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> Maybe not more lights but goosenecks on the excisting lights could solve this, so you can direct them where you need them the most.



Each led light bulb is actually attached to a swivel socket that also can be angled too... but I'm sure this would lead to not enough light in the middle... I have more led bulbs and sockets so it wouldn't be hard to add more in the series...

I do want to point out I love this style of lighting... its very robust and variable... I couldn't imagine being pinned down to using t5s or radions etc especially with the ridiculous costs involved in pre made systems... at $12/bulb and like $20 in electrical parts and some elbow grease its easy to see that I can get great results (imho)...

I don't remember if I went over the details of my lighting setup or not... maybe it's time


----------



## Edvet

I can have it running RO only, or have the waste water going in the tank too, that way it's a constant waterchange. I am at app 100 lit/day, it's a 1500 + 350 l sump,  so about 50% weekly if i use Ro and waste.


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> I couldn't imagine being pinned down to using t5s or radions etc especially with the ridiculous costs involved in pre made systems... at $12/bulb and like $20 in electrical parts and some elbow grease its easy to see that I can get great results (imho)...



I absolutely agree and we have so many alternatives to make use of the possibilities are limitless. For example a standard bar handle in brushed nickel 12mm you'll find on kiitchen doors..



Than look the laboratory stand cross clamp 12mm




Any lampfitting etc. in Europe has a standard M10x1 thread, than the sleeves to connect M10x1 thread rods used in lamp constrution are 12mm outside diameter.




The lab clamp fits the doorgrip, the sleeve fits in the Lab clamp, the spotlight fits into the sleeve it's all standard M10x1.. And before you know you have a twisting and turning and sliding spot light essambly you can not buy anywhere in the world.  It sounds stuppid, seeing a light when looking at a kitchen doorgrip. But it works beter than any ready made light for sale..



hitmanx said:


> I don't remember if I went over the details of my lighting setup or not... maybe it's time



Please do!? Im very curious..


----------



## hitmanx

I added a super red bristlenose pleco last week... he's having fun hanging out with the ottos and eating stuff...





I also added some sagitaria sublata spread throughout the front area... we shall see how it fairs with the diatom algae issue...


----------



## mort

I saw super reds on a website for sale and the picture was far redder/orange. Do you know if they colour up with maturity, if there are different grades or if yours is an accurate example.


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> Please do!? Im very curious..



One of these days I will...

For now the Maiden hair fern is taking over again... and I've spread the hygrophila polysperma everywhere... it's kind of turning into a monoculture...









I really do think the homemade RO water is changing things for the better as far as the long hair diatom algae... it's growing much slower... certainly it's much better than driving and carting around big jugs of water. A very good purchase indeed!

My nitrates are starting to creep up to 40+ ppm... it's definitely time to clean out the filter and add the eheim compact 5000 pump...

Also I really need to get rid of the alternifolia in the back... it's drying out to much and looks like blahblahblahblah... I just don't know what to replace it with...


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> I saw super reds on a website for sale and the picture was far redder/orange. Do you know if they colour up with maturity, if there are different grades or if yours is an accurate example.



The pleco is getting more orange as time passes...

You can't see it from the front shots but there's a lot of spathiphillum behind the Maiden hair fern and syngonium...





They are healthy but they aren't growing big enough... I'm thinking of adding a 'golden glow' variety of spathiphillum to the very back to add contrast... I really miss having the emersed hygrophila angustifolia spread around to add interest and contrast to the larger plants... I still have some aphids kicking around on the new syngonium leaves...


----------



## zgmarkozg

this is amazing!


----------



## hitmanx

A picture showcasing the colour of the bristle nose pleco (Ancistrus sp. 'super red'), and the various algae in the front...


----------



## hitmanx

I want to start adding a shrimp colony to this tank... I've had amano shrimp last quite awhile in this tank but then disappear (ive seen one crawling 10feet away on the carpet) and cherries have not been successful... in the past I've had a successful rcs colony in another tank but when I started water changes with tap water and using seachem equilibrium they all slowly died off...

I use equilibrium as part of my ferts each week but I have decided to use remineralized RO water for any water changes and take tap water completely out of the equation.

Does anybody have any experience with the different kinds of Salty Shrimp brand salts? I've read many good things so I am going to use salty shrimp products but I need to decide between the Shrimp Mineral gh/kh or the Aquarium Mineral gh/kh... What's the difference? They don't list the ingredients...

I plan to keep rcs and amano shrimp in this tank...


----------



## hitmanx

I just don't understand why shrimp don't work in this tank...

I drip acclimated a dozen wild cherry shrimp and an amano yesterday and they have dropped like flies... my gh is at 10 and my kh is at 3... my tds is a little high at 375ppm and I have been doing more water changes lately... the fish are happy and healthy... Maybe it's the 2 koralia power heads chewing them up?

Frustrating indeed...

I purchased the salty shrimp mineral gh/kh so I'm going to remineralize RO water for changes... Maybe I'm lacking calcium and other traces...

*Update:*

I may have overreacted... I actually only saw one dead shrimp and assumed the worst... one of the wild cherries was swimming around this afternoon and it look fine... either the others are hiding or dead somewhere in the background... 60% of this tank is in the shadows and behind drift wood so anything could be happening back there... I have to move planters to see it...

Holy crap these wild cherrys are hard to see! They went from a clear colour to mottled brown and are extremely camoflauged but I have found 2 so far... I still cannot find the amano shrimp...


----------



## hitmanx

Its a far cry from the original 60-70 fish i had a year ago... i spent a small fortune yesterday on better quality stock (hopefully) of cpds and emerald rasboras... a dozen young ones each... unfortunately 2 of the cpds have died in the quarantine tank... not sure why

I am also trying the cpd bucket breeding again, but this time only 1 male and 2 females and only one night at a time per bucket...

*Fauna:*

5 Celestichthys margaritatus (Celestial Pearl 'Danio')
6 Celestichthys choprae (Glowlight 'Danio')
6 Celestichthys erythromycin (Emerald dwarf rasboras)
12 Brachydanio tinwini (Gold ring 'Danio')
3 Poecilia wingei x 'Tiger' (Tiger endler)
1 Ancistrus sp. 'Super red
1 otociclus cocama
1 otociclus affinis

*Flora:*

Above

Spathiphyllum 'petite' (Peace lily)
Syngonium podophyllum 'Butterfly'
Cyperus alternifolius 'Gracilis'
Aglaonema sp. (Chinese evergreen)
Chamaedorea cataractarum (Cat palm)
Monstera deliciosa (Swiss cheese plant)
Ficus pumila (Creeping fig)
Anthurium sp. 'Red'
Pilea mollis 'Moonvalley'

Below

Limnobium laevigatum (Amazon frogit)
Hygrophila Polysperma
Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Cryptocoryne lutea
Cryptocoryne willisii x
Helanthium tenellum
Helanthium tenellum 'Green'
Sagitaria sublata


----------



## hitmanx

As beautiful as this maifen hair fern is in person, it just doesnt come through in pictures... its massive and it's taking over...





Between that and the Syngoniums, my vision isn't being fulfilled as far as the riparium is concerned... They are just getting too big! I was hoping the spathiphillums in the back would be bigger... I need more light back there!

Time for a trim... hopefully I didn't cut off too much...





It's a little better now but now the Syngoniums on the left look to big and the middle looks empty now... the top leaves are almost the size of the Taro I had last year! I have no experience trimming Syngonium... speaking of taro, I can't wait till spring so I can get my hands on some of those for the background planter... the cat palms have barely grown one or two leaves in 2 years so they wont work back there... 





Despite the slow growth, the Spathiphillum and Anthurium have been putting out constant flowers...





The maiden hair fern is beautiful by itself but the fine texture and overpowering size is very distracting... it ruins the composition...


----------



## mort

I've got 8 yellow cherry shrimp in a 15 litre heavily planted nano and I find it impossible to see any half the time. It seems because they are a snack in nature they have evolved a strong hiding instinct. If they are anything like my cherry shrimp colony in my bigger tank they will breed and breed before suddenly growing braver in the future. It's also common for shrimp to take a few weeks to settle and with the change in water chemistry they normally shed overnight, so will be somewhere safe hardening up.

My maidenhair really took over and I trimmed off the weaker growth. Unfortunately this made the new growth grow faster in the brighter light where it has shaded the other parts and ruined the shape. I'll be moving soon and I'm going to split it up to try and grow up newer smaller plants.
If your looking for a nice background plant I have what I believe is calathea rufibarba https://www.houseofplants.co.uk/plants/calathea-rufibarba_velvet-calathea_25740.html which has done really well for me in a lower light situation mixed in with the spathiphillum.


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> I've got 8 yellow cherry shrimp in a 15 litre heavily planted nano and I find it impossible to see any half the time. It seems because they are a snack in nature they have evolved a strong hiding instinct. If they are anything like my cherry shrimp colony in my bigger tank they will breed and breed before suddenly growing braver in the future. It's also common for shrimp to take a few weeks to settle and with the change in water chemistry they normally shed overnight, so will be somewhere safe hardening up.
> 
> My maidenhair really took over and I trimmed off the weaker growth. Unfortunately this made the new growth grow faster in the brighter light where it has shaded the other parts and ruined the shape. I'll be moving soon and I'm going to split it up to try and grow up newer smaller plants.
> If your looking for a nice background plant I have what I believe is calathea rufibarba https://www.houseofplants.co.uk/plants/calathea-rufibarba_velvet-calathea_25740.html which has done really well for me in a lower light situation mixed in with the spathiphillum.



Yeah with all the fish swimming around I could see why the shrimp might be hiding... hopefully they survive... I found a local source of red cherry shrimp for  $0.65/ea so I'd like to throw in about 100 of them... I don't want them all to die. That's why I am testing with these first... I am switching the parameters over to remineralized RO water in my smaller riparium and I'm am going to start a breeding colony in there too. I loved breeding them a few years back...

The good thing about the maiden hair fern is that you can kind of fluff it up like a pillow and change the shape of the plant to make it more round... I wouldn't dare split up the rhizome in fear of it dieing like many of my previous attempts... I am thinking of moving it to another piece of drift wood, but it's root system is perfectly situated and I fear it will die...

I would love a calathea rufibarba and ive been looking for one for over a year... i cant find any here in canada... i think it would be a perfect addition in the background.


----------



## mort

The fern I have is a little squashed by the surrounding foliage but I'm moving everything to a much larger tank soon so have left it. When I got it most of the foliage was dry and crispy and it was free. I was really brutal with it, split the roots and trimmed them within an inch of their lives and it bounced back quickly. I guess I was lucky.

It's funny you've been looking for the rufibarba, I've looked at your plant list and many from north America, with the ones I like not available at all over here.


----------



## hitmanx

That's frustrating... which ones can't you get over there?


----------



## mort

I've had a list but no idea where it went. The main ones are normally grass like species which seem hard to get. There were a few flashy specimen plants but I think a few were available just prohibitively expensive. Unfortunately the planted hobby isn't the biggest here and that makes more niche parts of it even smaller. We do have some great garden centres though and I can pick up bits and bobs to try.


----------



## hitmanx

I'm setting up an STC-1000 temperature controler tomorrow to control the heaters down in the sump... heater thermostats always seem a little flakey... my tank is a couple degrees lower this week than what it's been set to...

I'll go into detail on the build tomorrow...

Also I forgot to mention that at least 4 of the cherry shrimps have stayed alive and hang out mostly at the base of the far right manzanita stump grazing away and colour up nice... there still may be hope! The amano shrimp is no where to be seen...






The otociclus cocama...


----------



## chrism

> The otociclus cocama...



What a beaut!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hitmanx

Playing with the manual settings on my phone camera...


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## Tim Harrison

Still looking great.


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## hitmanx

If anyone wanted to know how the maiden hair fern is growing in the driftwood...





I tried growing terrestrial moss on top of the hairnet full of peat moss but it died slowly as the fern blocked the light... not sure what else will grow here...


----------



## hitmanx

*Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.*

_Edgar Allan Poe_





I've decided to add some darker colours to the riparium... mostly shades of purple to contrast to the light greens of the syngonium and maiden hair fern...


----------



## mort

How do you go about transitioning them? Do you wash the soil and trim the roots or something else?


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> How do you go about transitioning them? Do you wash the soil and trim the roots or something else?



I wash all the soil off the roots and then wash the entire plant with mild soapy water to remove any chemicals or pesticides... Then I trim the older leaves off and prune back the root systems... then i leave them in a bowl or bucket of water with roots submerged to leach anything else out and allow it to start transitioning to water roots... a couple days maybe...

Then I place into appropriate planter depending on the needs of the particular species...

I've never tried calathea before so here's hoping they do well... some say that the crown needs to above the water but I've seen examples of it growing below like a spathiphillum...

 I find Anthurium tricky too... you have to get the crown just right so it doesn't rot but also allows enough water to get to the roots... I've had a couple failures... it definitely needs to above the water level with the roots below...


----------



## mort

Interesting thanks. I do basically the same thing but left them in glass jars for a couple of weeks before adding to the tank.

I tried two Anthurium and had one die off and one make it but it never thrived. I've got another to try and I think the one that died sunk too much. I also tried a calathea a couple of years ago and that was a failure but I even killed it as a houseplant. I'm normally pretty green fingered.

Its nice to have inspiration for a new tank i'm hoping to build soon.


----------



## hitmanx

hitmanx said:


> It has begun...



Yet another attempt hasn't seemed to work... this time  it was 1 male and 2 females with 1 day in the bucket... that was on Feb 15th... no fry yet... 

I'm going to try a spawning mop and this time have no sponge filter in there and make it bare bottom... i have more females in the new bunch so maybe I'll try with those but they are kinda young...

I even used 100% tank water this time...


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> Its nice to have inspiration for a new tank i'm hoping to build soon.



If you want some advice, go as big as you can possibly get for in the space! Riparium plants take up a lot of space when they grow in naturally...

I wish I went bigger...


----------



## Goose157

Hi, just to say i love the looks of your swamp....Cheers
Chris


----------



## Edvet

Seen this one?: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...r-shots-new-set-up-7-24-a-57.html#post9955410


----------



## hitmanx

Edvet said:


> Seen this one?: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...r-shots-new-set-up-7-24-a-57.html#post9955410



I have looked at that one and admire the creativity and dedication but all the different colours aren't my cup of tea... the submerssed section is certainly better than mine


----------



## hitmanx

There he is!


----------



## hitmanx

I added the calathea lancifolia  (rattlesnake plant) to a planter and stuck the green variegated philodendron behind it...





I also added the darker Anthurium to the back...





I have had this chamaedorea elegans sitting in the back for the last year not doing much bit not dieing.. . So I moved it up the front driftwood just stuck in a crack...





Next is the calathea medallion.. .

The view from my basement couch


----------



## Tim Harrison

Keeps getting better.


----------



## hitmanx

What the heck is this stuff?!






It grows under the darkest sections of the manzanita... I pulled out a baseball size chunk yesterday... it sticks together like one solid squishy mass like a soft sponge...


----------



## GHNelson

Just accumulated detritus/dead matter!
You usually find it in a area where its difficult to clean get too


----------



## hitmanx

hogan53 said:


> Just accumulated detritus/dead matter!
> You usually find it in a area where its difficult to clean get too



Don't think so... It's growing upside down hanging and is attached to the wood and is one complete slug of goo...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Do you have a cat?
It looks like it coughed a fir ball up in to your tank 
But really, it's probably some sort of fungal mycelium.


----------



## hitmanx

I don't have a cat but I still got that swamp monster from the very first page kicking around maybe she put it in there


----------



## hitmanx

I know I've been changing or adding a lot to this tank recently, but I enjoy it while the world outside wastes away in the cold grip of winter...

I decided to scrap the idea of building a temp controller using my stc1000 as the extra parts needed would cost more than buying a prewired Inkbird 308s... this one comes with an extra long stainless temp probe too...





Now my intention was to always add orchids to this display for colour and interest so decided to go out on a limb (pun intended) and scoop up this phalaenopsis and try it in an unorthodox growing position...





the roots I have wrapped around the crown of the fern and they are touching the moist moss... we shall see if it works... for $10 why not?





they are normally epiphytic high in the tree tops, but it may grow here below the fern... It's a gamble but it just might work... 





I'm also trying out a 200 micron filter sock to try and catch debris when I do work on the submerged section... it won't be permanent as I don't like the idea of changing it out every couple days... yeah right


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> What the heck is this stuff?!


It is the filamentous diatom formerly known as "_Synedra", _now _Fragilaria spp. 
_
cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

Awsome setup..  With trying to grow orchids epiphytic on the emersed DW you need a decent substrate that hold moist very well.. Dried sphagnum only is not dense enough, even tho it holds about 12 x it's own weight in water it dries out to soon and is very inconsistant. I tried in several occassions with several orchid sp. on the naked wood with sphagnum only and i failedd every time on the long run.  There is a setup on another forum with mainly Orchids and Tillandsia's on the emersed DW etc. above an open top tank, and he used Hygrolon Epiweb as base substrate on the DW and this seem to do the trick very well. It has a more dense structure holding water for a longer time it seems.

Growing life mosses emersed on wood requires not only the correct sp. but also a lot of attantion depending on the indoor climate up to spraying several times a day. Neglection for a week can cause it to go into sleep mode once it is in this mode it can take a while for it to revive again. Moss is not only very resilient it also is very sensitive to inconsistancy. Also here is a base substrate like Epiwep very benefitial.

In my personal experience i had the best emersed results with liverwort mosses on wood.


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It is the filamentous diatom formerly known as "_Synedra", _now _Fragilaria spp.
> _
> cheers Darrel



I'm fairly positive that it is Synedra that has plagued this setup since last summer in the open section under the lights. This other stuff is different... I realize that the picture doesn't show it's true nature... that chunk was in a high flow area so it's a little dirty with debris... normally it's a dark grey very much like bba... also the stuff I think is Synedra is very loose and gooey... this other stuff is squishy but stays together very well...


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> Awsome setup..  With trying to grow orchids epiphytic on the emersed DW you need a decent substrate that hold moist very well..



Because the spagnum is in a hair net which is dipped on one side into the water it's moist 100% of the time... im actually worried about too much moisture and root rot... we shall see... its a cheap experiment


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 
I still think they are filamentous diatoms, mainly because of the colour.  The other option would be a filamentous red algae, but I'm not aware of one that looks like that from freshwater. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> I still think they are filamentous diatoms, mainly because of the colour.  The other option would be a filamentous red algae, but I'm not aware of one that looks like that from freshwater.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I will get a better picture tonight to show it's true form and colour... what I think is Synedra is this:


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> im actually worried about too much moisture and root rot...



Yup had the same issue with spraying to much.. If it is to moist all the time the orchid will shrivel away.. That's also what makes growing orchids outside a relative constant climate greenhouse so difficult. In both occassions to wet or to dry can symptomatic look the same, shriveling leaves.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> what I think is Synedra is this:


That one looks like a filamentous diatom as well.

Do you have access to a microscope? 

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

It also could be a Rhizoclonium.. It also can color green/brown. I'm not sure if it goes for all Rhizoclonium sp. but an easy way to identify seems, rubbing it between your fingers. It looks slimy but it feels gritty because it has a granular cellstructure.




If it feels slimy it likely is something else.  I once had it in the tank and it indeed felt gritty.


----------



## hitmanx

I have had rhizo before and it was more green and indeed felt gritty... the Synedra feels slimy... this other stuff feels spongy...

Maybe I can buy the kids a microscope and use it too... what am I looking for? And what kind of magnification would in need?


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> I have had rhizo before and it was more green and indeed felt gritty... the Synedra feels slimy... this other stuff feels spongy...
> 
> Maybe I can buy the kids a microscope and use it too... what am I looking for? And what kind of magnification would in need?



You're kids will love you for it building it together on a cold evening.. 
http://www.instructables.com/id/10-Smartphone-to-digital-microscope-conversion/


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> You're kids will love you for it building it together on a cold evening..
> http://www.instructables.com/id/10-Smartphone-to-digital-microscope-conversion/



Omg this is amazing!!!

Thanks for the link


----------



## gltjc

Just caught up with this journal after some time. What an awesome achievement!


----------



## hitmanx

I added the calathea Medallion into planter cups and put them in the back left HOB breeder box and overflow.... hopefully they survive and fill out nicely...





I also found some black plastic canvas for the weir guard... you tell me if it looks more inconspicuous?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> what am I looking for? And what kind of magnification would in need?


You need a compound microscope, these usually have X10 eyepiece and then X4, X10 and X40 objectives (so giving X40,  X100, X400 magnification), they may have a X100 as well. You need slides and cover-slips etc.

I'm not sure what you can get in Canada. We use <"Brunel Microscopes"> in the UK, something like their <"SP22"> model would be plenty good enough. A lot of schools etc in the UK are selling off their old stock, so you can often pick up second hand bargains. I haven't used any of the cheaper USB digital microscopes you can get, but they would be OK.

There is a good amateur microscopy site <"Mic-UK">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

For the cheaper stuff.. They ship worldwide also for free if you are willing to wait.
https://www.banggood.com/search/microscope.html
also haven't used any.. But i'm eyeballing this one already for a while..
https://www.banggood.com/5MP-USB-C-...e-Lens-Adapter-Set-30mm-30_5mm-p-1156832.html
It fits a regular analog microscope shaft..


----------



## Edvet

Vet's use microscopes too, maybe you can find one from that corner.


----------



## Waterhops

A truly beautiful tank! Well doned!!!


----------



## hitmanx

Keeps chugging along... massive growth of the maidenhair fern despite regular massive pruning...





The calathea lancifolia is doing great but the calathea Medallion failed... as did the orchid, but not after keeping it's blooms for a long time...


----------



## alto

Tank looks amazing (though I can't help but wonder how big your little girl is now relative to the tank  )

What's in for livestock?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Superb...


----------



## hitmanx

1 Otociclus affinis
1 Otociclus cocama
1 Ancistrus sp. 'Super red'
5 Brachydanio tinwini
4 or 5 Celestichthys choprai
20+ Celestichthys erythromycin
20+ Celestichthys margaritatus
1 Amano shrimp

Unfortunately the C. choprai have been harassing the other fish and especially the tiger endlers... they chased them up and out so the endlers are no longer with us... I really regret getting the C. choprai... in my opinion they are not a good community fish... and they themselves occasionally jump out as well... I started with 18...

I will continue bolstering the population of C. erythromycin and C. margaritatus... they are much more chill...

The interesting thing about the male tiger endler is that he took to protecting his harem of B. tinwini, always protecting them... I was sad to see him go...


----------



## mort

I have choprae as well and relegated them to another tank as they were a really pain. They seemed ok when their numbers were high but as soon as they slipped down to 6 or so, they became real thugs.


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> I have choprae as well and relegated them to another tank as they were a really pain. They seemed ok when their numbers were high but as soon as they slipped down to 6 or so, they became real thugs.



Yeah, I really don't want to set up another tank to house them... maybe it's time to setup the bottle trap again and move them... it certainly would be more peaceful without them...


----------



## Ray_Norwich

outstanding, love it!


----------



## jayp

Just big , fat , massive WOW


----------



## alto

I vote for the bottle trap 
It's a shame you were misled about the C choprai - so much more difficult to remove them from such a tank

(I suppose the (irritating behaviour ) clues are there in the Seriously Fish profile, and observing them over time in shop tanks - something shop staff can more easily do ...)


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

Glad I read your feedback RE the Danio Choprai, I was considering getting some for a shallow tank but read perviously in your thread they started to jump. They are not cheap fish over here and I dont want them to end up on the floor!


----------



## Conort2

I seem to have the same issue as everyone else in regards to the choprae, they like throwing their weight about every now and then. Not the most relaxing fish in a planted tank with their constant chasing back and forth. 
Beautiful tank by the way, I'm sure a lot of your fish will breed and increase their numbers in their naturally due to the dense plant growth.

Cheers 

Conor


----------



## sciencefiction

Beautiful tank! I don't know how I missed it as I love emersed growth. I only found it while searching for some Maidenhair Fern experience. I got mine two weeks back so early to tell what it will do for me yet but yours is giving me a lot of hope  

Your tank is amazing. I'd love to do something like that but I am lazy....

Your peace lilies and the parlour palm I saw on several pictures haven't grown big most likely because of lack of light out the back. I've actually had just them two species for a few years and if I put mine over your tank, it will pretty much cover it entirely and more. I actually think you don't really need those two species to grow big as you'll run out of room completely and they'll block the light to your front plants plus the submersed growth...So in essence its a good thing...It would have ruined the current view  

Please update more often


----------



## hitmanx




----------



## hitmanx

sciencefiction said:


> Your peace lilies and the parlour palm I saw on several pictures haven't grown big most likely because of lack of light out the back.



I am using the 'petite' cultivar of peace lily (spathiphyllum)... it doesnt grow very fast or big... i am thinking of getting a normal variety for the back right it fill in the space though...


----------



## hitmanx




----------



## hitmanx

When viewed from the top you can see that the spathiphyllum 'petite' are actually getting quite large...


----------



## JackH

Gorgeous!


----------



## hitmanx

It's time for a change... 

The riparium plants are getting unruly and overshadowing almost the entire tank...

This is after a major cutback...






And I temporarily removed all the Syngonium to dunk them in a bucket of water to hopefully kill the aphids and eggs... they aren't really killing anything but they are annoying...





I have moved a couple of the larger Spathiphyllum 'petite' to the HOB boxes and I'm replanting the Syngonium into the overflow instead of in riparium planters... not sure what I'm going to put in those now... essentially I'm moving everything back on the left side... the newer darker Anthurium sp. has been moved to the far back right and the Cyperus alternifolius 'Gracilis' has been removed entirely... I was sick of picking out the brown spent shoots...

This all will hopefully open up the tank on the left side and give the submerged growth a chance to flourish... it's mostly Hygrophila Polysperma now but I like the look of a forest of that compared to stunted anything else I try down there... I also want to grow Ficus pumila (Creeping fig) on the left stump but up to now it's been too shaded... 

Overall the tank is a mess and overgrown as I've been on vacation a lot... but it's chugging along healthy and growing...

One of these days I'll add more lights to the back, skin the stand, change out the pump and clean the filter... baby steps...


----------



## Marc Davis

Just the right ratio of immersed and emersed plants in my opinion.


----------



## hitmanx

The syngonium is back in, filling 4 planters in  the overflow and 1 aqua Verdi suction cup planter...





Next up is a replanting of the hygrophila polysperma forest... hack down and replant the tops and move them farther back as the submerged section is more open and bright now...





I just noticed how obvious the remaining white plastic canvas on the overflow is now that I moved the syngonium back as well as the unpainted return from the sump...


----------



## hitmanx

Trimmed down the forest of hygrophila polysperma and siphoned off accumulated mulm... Will replant today





I'm also thinking of adding more otociclus affinis and amano shrimp to help keep things more tidy... every once in a awhile the amano comes out of hiding and looks healthy...


----------



## hitmanx

After another mulm siphon and some house keeping, I replanted all the hygrophila polysperma in the mid ground...





The h. Polysperma has always grown gangbusters... and it all came from half a dozen almost dead stems I rescued from a moldy in vitro cup...

For unknown reasons most of the  Helanthium tenellum "Green" has become stunted in the foreground and isn't sending out runners... I've tried root tabs with no change... but the ones that seem a little shaded on the left seem to be doing better...

I really don't know why I can't get much else to grow down on the substrate when before it was lush and green... too much or too little light? The soil has depleted? The riparium plants are taking too much of the ferts? Lack of co2?

I haven't tested the water in a long time..  maybe it's something else...

Only one of the species of crypt has done well and I'm not entirely sure which species it was... I believe it's Cryptocoryne lutea... all others have stunted or died... I don't recall if I have tried c. wendtii so I should get some to maybe fill out some of the empty spaces...


----------



## hitmanx

So apparently you need to check the tightness of plumbing connections regularly... just found a leak at a union on the secondary drain on the bean animal to the sump... they were all  pretty loose after 1.5 years... who knows for how long... and the bulkhead is loose too and has a very slow drip... but it seems like it just started when I tightened the union...

Those that have pvc plumbing make note...


----------



## paul_j

Very cool tank. Must be nice to see the wood in the background again. Do you have any plants growing on the wood submersed?


----------



## mort

If the issue is lack of nutrients at the substrate you could try something like nymphoides hydrophylla taiwan, which will send surface leaves up (but is easy to control) for co2 and has a bulb energy store. Other similar species would work well with just additional root tab feeding.
Other crypts should also do well with root feeding as they grow well even in low energy tanks with sand.

I find with my emersed growth that the submerged plants really need heavy feeding to show any growth. The only plants I've found that seem to do ok without any added frets (with emerged growth) is bucephalandra or other slow growers like anubias,  java fern etc.


----------



## hitmanx

.


mort said:


> If the issue is lack of nutrients at the substrate you could try something like nymphoides hydrophylla taiwan, which will send surface leaves up (but is easy to control) for co2 and has a bulb energy store. Other similar species would work well with just additional root tab feeding.
> Other crypts should also do well with root feeding as they grow well even in low energy tanks with sand.
> 
> I find with my emersed growth that the submerged plants really need heavy feeding to show any growth. The only plants I've found that seem to do ok without any added frets (with emerged growth) is bucephalandra or other slow growers like anubias,  java fern etc.



I do add fertz but it's based on Tom bars non co2 method which doesn't include emerged growth... perhaps it's not enough... I've tried using osmocote root tabs and I've seen no change where I've put them...

I need to get my hands on a PAR metre so I can see how much light I have... perhaps I have too much light in the centre and it's exacerbating the lack of nutrients...


----------



## SeanOB

I really enjoy looking at this tank. Dream set up!

Good call with the big trim back, that most recent picture looks so natural. 

if you do still go with Ficus pumila I am sure it will go crazy and you will enjoy making it wrap around things to fill gaps. Just be weary of its aggressive roots, mine can take over a big area in no time and requires more trimming than all the other plants combined


----------



## DutchMuch

Holy cow I had no idea this journal was also on here- amazing!
glad to see it again  looks great as usual.


----------



## hitmanx

paul_j said:


> Very cool tank. Must be nice to see the wood in the background again. Do you have any plants growing on the wood submersed?



There are anubias nana 'petite' on the right stump... and the ceratophyllum thalictroides crown and roots shoved into a crack on the left stump... i have had that crazy glued to wood before so maybe i will do it again as it reproduces... I always wanted to add hygrophila pinitifada all over the stumps but what's the point? It probably won't grow for me here...


----------



## alto

I can’t really tell from your photos how well the H polysperma is doing - you might compare with Tropica’s plant profile page 
that should help indicate whether yours is lacking nutrient? light? or???

I suspect the emerse plants are removing water column nutrients ... they may still be shading ... it may also be that you need to adjust multiple factors rather than any single dominating factor 

Looking back at your substrate layers, it seems unlikely that the relatively limited submerse plant growth has stripped all nutrition (unless your emerse plants have access)

The possibility of allelopathy is also a consideration - especially in a limited water change system 

Have you tried S subulata - I find it more forgiving in my low tech tanks than H tenellum (but my tap is very soft & I tend not to add any KH/GH boosters despite intentions, recently substrate has been Tropica Aquarium Soil)


----------



## hitmanx

What the bloody hell!?





Water has gone cloudy... can't tell if it's greenish or white... 









I have a uv sterilizer arriving today that I'm putting in the sump... but why did this happen? Weird...


----------



## tam

Very atmospheric, but I agree, very weird in such a heavily planted tank. Maybe take a glass out and see if you can tell white v. green. Fish all accounted for, no little helpers dumped a pot of food in, autodoser dumped too much? 

Your submersed plants are looking really good though!


----------



## DutchMuch

WELCOME MY FRIEND TO THE WORLD OF GREEN WATER ALGAE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE WORST TYPE OF ALGAE IN ALL THE LAND OF AQUASCAPING!!!!

_GOOD LUCK AND HATS OFF TO YOU FOR IMMEDIATLY BUYING  A UV!!!!
_
I never did find a real cause for it, but a UV is the only/best treatment method for it ive found.


----------



## hitmanx

Cheap uv light from Amazon.. . 





Placed in the sump... hopefully this works...


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

That seems a bit dangerous to me... when we use UV at work we have to have it covered and wear special glasses when we work in the area in case of eye damage... be careful with this!!


----------



## hitmanx

The fact that it's Chinese made, means it's safer... 

It's only temporary and I will try not to look at it... do you know if the uv light is dangerous at all distances? If I look at it out of the corner of my eye from 10feet away let's say?

I'm more worried that the light is going to degrade the plastic components of my sump...


----------



## Edvet

in order to work the UV is only lethal to microorganisms in water a few mm max a few  cm from the lamp. In chinese fabrication this could be less
Time exposed, distance, water turbidity, UV power are all influences.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_germicidal_irradiation

http://www.uv-diagrams.com/


----------



## hitmanx

Edvet said:


> in order to work the UV is only lethal to microorganisms in mm max 1 cm from the lamp. In chinese fabrication this could be less



The light is directly under the main bean animal drain so every bit of water that flows through the system is treated... then again the velocity of the water may affect dwell time...

I will take a picture of the tank today for 24hr comparison...

I just gotta keep my kids and dogs away from it...


----------



## hitmanx

24 hours later... woooooooo!!!


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Wow! Massive difference


----------



## hitmanx

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Wow! Massive difference



Of course this is by no means a scientific test but I really don't know what else could have solved the problem besides the UV light. I only had time to snap a quick picture and I had to leave again so I don't know if there are any other ill effects from the light to my set up and the inhabitants


----------



## Edvet

Time solves a lot too


----------



## zozo

I'm with Ed on this..  Don't panic, such a rather harmless Bacterial bloom usualy goes away on it's own again. It can occure if the balance gets disrupted from for example if substrate is disturbed and a food source for the bacteria is released into the water column. It aslo can occure without advance notice. The bacteria can reproduce in vast numbers in an extremely short periode making the water look cloudy. That's why it often reoccures within a few hours after a water change, very frustrating.  ANd actualy just a guess what the real cause is..

I've had it too a few times in the past with different tanks. Just don't panic and don't get frustrated and wait it out, going on with your regular schedule as always and it balances out again in time. And never used a UV light in my life.

It's he same as the sudden surface skum biofilm, a simmular bacterial bloom but than on the surface.. Same story it can occure any time without advance notice hold on a week or 2 and goes away again.


----------



## hitmanx

48 hours later... water is crystal clear... no I'll effects to anything that I can see...

I added 5 more amano shrimp today and planted the front with Sagittaria subulata...


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

hitmanx said:


> 48 hours later... water is crystal clear... no I'll effects to anything that I can see...
> 
> I added 5 more amano shrimp today and planted the front with Sagittaria subulata...


And where is the photo lol?


----------



## hitmanx

Sorry busy night...

I'll get a photo up today... it's crazy how clear it is...

Whatever the issue was it may have contributed to some kind of deficiency in the older leaves of the hygrophila polysperma... bottom leaves have major pinholes that I haven't seen before... lack of light probably... the water was pretty turbid during the dark times before the coming of the light...


----------



## hitmanx

I don't know if I have ever posted my fertz schedule... I use Tom barr' s non-co2 method and his recommendations.. . I'm thinking I may need to up the numbers... or at least actually do it... I forget sometimes or all the time 

Monday / Thursday

 EQUILIBRIUM ● 3 dash
 KNO3 ● 2 dash
 KH2PO4 ● 1 pinch + 1 nip


Wednesday/ Saturday

 EDTA Fe ● 1 dash


----------



## hitmanx

Crystal clear water... amano shrimp doing great... but the plants seem to be showing signs of deficiency... old leaves mostly... but new leaves also seem a bit off...


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

looking great, plants dont look to bad at all, when i feel my plants may be suffering i just increase all ferts by 25% or so and see if the improve, with the increase I also try to make sure I do a 50% WC weekly


----------



## Edvet

Don't forget that big mass of plants above water use a large amount of ferts too, so upping macro's and micro's might be worth a try.


----------



## hitmanx

I am on holiday at the moment, but when I return I will be doing a full bevy of water testing to see where I am at... I will make a fish count and list the current flora and fauna in the tank...

I was thinking of switching to an all in one fert like Thrive to make it easier... dosing with dry ferts isn't that hard but a simple squirt would make it so I had no excuse actually do it...  

I will also be adding a school of Microdevario kubotai and more otociclus this week and move the CPDs that are down in the sump up into the display tank. Of course I will need to capture the few Glowlight Danio that terrorize the other fish and move them to the sump where they can spend the rest of there days patroling for planaria etc.... maybe then it will be a little calmer and happy up there...


----------



## hitmanx

Changes over time...

Jan 2017





Feb 2017





Mar 2017





Apr 2017





Jul 2017





Aug 2017





Sep 2017





Dec 2017





Feb 2018





May 2018





Jun 2018





Jul 2018





Aug 2018


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Awesome photo series


----------



## Nubias

Loving it and all emersed growth lately


----------



## Grant Binnie

Great tank. That's how to really bring nature into your home. Good work.


----------



## hitmanx

Has anyone had any success with all in one ferts like Thrive?


----------



## Ysiatis

Gorgeous !!!  Thanks a lot for sharing this "timelapse shots" !


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

I use the aquascaper complete liquid plant food. It's great! Just dose each day and I've had good plant growth and very little algae.


----------



## hitmanx

The trap has been set to catch the glowlight danios.. . Unfortunately only the amano shrimp have ventured in so far...






I drip acclimated and added 15 Microdevario kubotai... they are beautiful fish but too fast to take pictures of with my phone.. .





I also moved the 8 cpds that were in a breeder box in the sump up to the main display... hopefully the danios will get trapped before they harass the new fish and make them jump...


----------



## mort

I removed my glow light danios a few months ago as they were becoming a real pain. Since then the tank has been much more harmonious and I'm getting the best out of my pencilfish. I used the bottle method and this is why I'm posting, the first couple were easily caught but even after several weeks the others wouldn't venture in. I had to let my pencilfish out several times a day as they were happy to be caught but the danio were very wary of the trap. In the end I gave up and just used a net which sounds like its more trouble than its worth in a planted tank but it worked. The tank is planted jungle style but it was much easier to move them into a corner with something and catch them than wait for them to go in the trap.
I thought I'd never catch them with the net but it was pretty easy in the end so don't rule it out if they start to be a pain with the new fish.


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> I thought I'd never catch them with the net but it was pretty easy in the end so don't rule it out if they start to be a pain with the new fish.



Not possible... 2/3rds of the tank is manzanita with a million inaccessible hiding spots... I caught them the last time I used the bottle trap... problem is the amano cleaned the bottle right out last night and just slipped out again... crafty buggers...


----------



## hitmanx

I was watching the tank last night after I added the M. Kubotai and it's amazing what a school of dither fish can do for more skittish fish...  almost immediately the C. Margaritatus, B. Tinwini, and C. Erythromicron and C. Choprae all came out of hiding into the open water... the M. Kubotai are more of a mid to top dwelling fish and they don't seem to be skittish, much like the B. Tinwini before their numbers dwindled to the current 4 that I have now...

So I watched the C. Choprae for awhile and they really are mean... constantly harassing even the largest of the C. Margaritatus males and any other fish that comes near it besides the Ancistrus... once these bastards have been moved maybe I can try cherry shrimp again and all the other fish can stay in the tank without being chased out...


----------



## hitmanx

Still no luck with catching the C. Choprae in the bottle trap... just shrimp and ottos...

But also I have no jumpers so maybe the previous agressive culprit is gone... the new amano shrimps are doing fine... but the H. Polysperma is still showing signs of deficiency... Pale colour and holes in older leaves and now transparent areas in newer leaves a few nodes from the top... i turned the light intensity down a bit a couple days ago and I am dosing more fertz... nothing drastic has changed recently except for the green water / bacterial bloom and UV light... could it be anything else? I don't think flow has changed at all...

I added another large Anthurium sp. to the back right HOB and another Calathea Lancifolia to an aquaverdi planter on the left...













I couldn't find any local sources of Ficus pumila to add to the stump on the left and they never seem to take from stem cuttings... it's root or nothing...


----------



## Nubias

Love this tank.... Looking great


----------



## hitmanx

This is one of my favourite fish... Otociclus Cocama... nice fat belly





Bristle Nose Ancistrus hiding behind the clear bottle...





I don't know if this is going to work long term but I moved some small stunted Spathiphyllum 'petite to some aquaverdi planters in front of the overflow to fill in the space... they were in the very back, severely shaded, and the roots where growing 6+" down the main bean animal drain and messing up the small pump that supplies one of the HOB breeder boxes...


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Love the oto photo!


----------



## zozo

Lovely riparium setup.. A joy to watch.. 


hitmanx said:


> I couldn't find any local sources of Ficus pumila to add to the stump on the left and they never seem to take from stem cuttings... it's root or nothing...



If you have access to top cuttings, than you have beter chances with putting them in moist perlite or sterile cutting soil and cover the pot with a (cut) pet bottle, to create a little greenhouse, to control air humidity... Put it in a light spot on the window sil. This can be done from march till november or else the light periode gets to short. In about 6 weeks it should have roots and can be moved to its permanent spot. Older top cuttings showing air roots seem to be more vital and root faster..


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> Lovely riparium setup.. A joy to watch..
> 
> 
> If you have access to top cuttings, than you have beter chances with putting them in moist perlite or sterile cutting soil and cover the pot with a (cut) pet bottle, to create a little greenhouse, to control air humidity... Put it in a light spot on the window sil. This can be done from march till november or else the light periode gets to short. In about 6 weeks it should have roots and can be moved to its permanent spot. Older top cuttings showing air roots seem to be more vital and root faster..



Thanks, I will try this method...


----------



## hitmanx

So using my frog-bit as a "duckweed index" I definitely think that my tank was nutrient deficient... the growth has been explosive in only a few days





With the same dosing scheme I've had all this time but before the riparium plants we're so big I had to throw out handfuls of frog-bit each week...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> So using my frog-bit as a "duckweed index" I definitely think that my tank was nutrient deficient... the growth has been explosive in only a few days


That looks pretty healthy Frogbit.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

alto said:


> Looking back at your substrate layers, it seems unlikely that the relatively limited submerse plant growth has stripped all nutrition (unless your emerse plants have access)
> 
> The possibility of allelopathy is also a consideration - especially in a limited water change system



These are interesting ideas... the roots of the Spaths have definitely made there way down into the substrate in the back... who knows how far into the soil they go...

Also the idea allelopathy has me thinking... perhaps one of the many plants is responsible for this madness... it's very frustrating that nothing else seems to grow in the submerssed section besides H. Polysperma and a few crypts... I'm sure I have enough light... it's brighter the  any of my previous tanks for sure... if the PAR was too high, compounded with low nutrient levels and no co2, that would also account for poor growth would it not?

Even the dwarf sag I added isn't really taking off...


----------



## Edvet

From the planted tank forum member Crazydaz ( it is possible)
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...-back-end-teaser-shots-new-set-up-7-24-a.html


----------



## hitmanx

I've been working on this tank so much lately it's hard to remember that with a low tech changes take more time to settle in... some times I go months without doing anything but feed and top off... so far I've reduced the light intensity and period, started fertilizing more, decided to do 7% weekly water changes , moved plants around, and added more flora and fauna... all this within a month... it will be hard to know exactly what has helped or hindered my tank...





I truly wish my original idea of the submerssed section being dominated by crypts and tenellus panned out... I truly hate having to constantly trim stems... I also wanted a more open feel and the stems create the illusion of a smaller depth of field, not to mention the hardscape that I painstakingly designed is all but invisible behind it... 





Unfortunately I may have cursed the otociclus cocama when I posted the picture the other day... somehow he made it to the floor for a few minutes, and my first reaction was to put him back in quickly, but he has ceased to exist... out of any off my fish, that one made me sad...


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> that one made me sad...


Me too..  Sorry for your loss.. These are very beautifull and rare to find Oto's..


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Sorry to hear about your oto... I wonder would dwarf sag give you the feel you are after in place of some of your stems?


----------



## hitmanx

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Sorry to hear about your oto... I wonder would dwarf sag give you the feel you are after in place of some of your stems?



Indeed... if the dwarf sag takes off I think it will be great...


----------



## hitmanx

zozo said:


> Me too..  Sorry for your loss.. These are very beautifull and rare to find Oto's..



My lfs has them sometimes... but they are expensive too... I've had him since March of 2017...


----------



## hitmanx

*Fauna*

1 Otocinclus affinis
1 BN ancistrus
4 Brachydanio tinwini
10+ Celestichthys erythromycin
14+ Celestichthys margaritas
4 Celestichthys choprae
15 Microdevario kubotai
5+ Amano shrimp


*Flora*

Bellow:

Hygrophila polysperma
Cryptocoryne walkeri ‘lutea’
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne willisii x
Helanthium tenellum
Sagittaria subulata
Lysimachia nummularia ‘aurea’
Ceratopteris thalictroides
Limnobium laevigatum


Above:

Adiantum aethiopicum
Spathiphyllum 'Petite'
Syngonium podophyllum 'Butterfly'
Calathea lancifolia 
Aglaonema sp.
Chamaedorea cataractarum
Chamaedorea elegans
Ficus pumila
Anthurium sp. 
Pilea mollis 'Moonvalley'
Pilea cadierei


----------



## hitmanx

Fish behaviour always astounds me... i have had these three C. Margaritatus in a holding pen in the sump since last fall... they were some of my originals from the previous tank and I kinda forgot about them down there... they are nice and plump, albeit not very colourful but adding them back has done wonders for the other cpds...






Despite there being almost 15 other cpds in the main tank, they would NEVER come out if I was around even at feeding time... but today ALL of them came out for feeding... considering I named this tank after them it was nice to see...


----------



## zozo

hitmanx said:


> Ficus pumila to add to the stump on the left and they never seem to take from stem cuttings... it's root or nothing...



About the same day you posted this i happen to get me some pumila too. Top cuttings from a friends terrarium.. Did put it on some potting soil in a plastic container with a transparent lid.

Results of less than 2 weeks.


----------



## hitmanx

Things are a little over grown...





Especially underwater... there's barely any open water for the fish...





The maiden hair fern is of course massive again and this is after a big trim...





I'm hacking away at the hygrophila polysperma as we speak and there was a lot of mulm hiding under there...


----------



## hitmanx

I'm embarrassed to show the state of this tank and what was accumulating behind all that growth...





The algae that I've been battling since 2017 really likes the manzanita on the bright left side and was covering the Limnobium laevigatum (frogbit) roots and
Ceratopteris thalictroides... i had to remove those and wash them off...





Something I noticed... the hygrophila polysperma that was growing under the dappled shade of the fern was healthier than the stems out under the bright lights... the ones out in the open seemed deficient...

I have 6 more Celestichthys margaritatus, 1 more Microdevario kubotai, and 11 Boraras brigittae (chili rasbora) drip acclimating to the quarantine tank and will be added at a later date...

 I'm still not sure how fish are getting down into the sump but there's a lot down there... one of these days I'll get them back up into the display tank...


----------



## Mattallic

Hitmanx this tank is gorgeous mate. Unfortunate about current events. But the tank is amazing.


----------



## hitmanx

You can see here that the hygrophila polysperma on the left is more pale than that on the right... maybe the higher light is causing an imbalance...





With most of the stems and floaters taken out it's quite open but I think I like it... I will add stems back under the fern, but I will only add some of the frogbit back in...





I do like the contrast of the full top and mostly barren bottom...





There's a lot more swimming space for the fish... I could barely see any more than couple fish at a time before...





This way the hardscape is more on display... but I really wish my original concept worked out where the bottom looked like a flooded forest with "grasses" and crypt etc... too much light I guess... I started with 100% power to the LEDs at 7hrs/day and now I'm on 55% for 6hrs... hopefully the stupid algae and mulm accumulation will subside with the better flow now that the water column is more open...


----------



## hitmanx

Good grief... open space means maximum velocity for the remaining Celestichthys choprae to chase and harass the other fish...

I wish I could get them out of there...

In the last couple days I've seen 4 of the 6 amano shrimp at one time... only 2 of the
Brachydanio tinwini remain... and of the 10+ Celestichthys erythromycin that should be in there, I've only seen 1... the rest are in the sump or are hiding in the manzanita as they are very good at that... there are a bunch of the Microdevario kubotai down in the sump with less then half of them in the display tank...

I added a tiny Siamese Algae Eater (Crossocheilus oblongus) in early October and I swear he doubled in size in the first few weeks but now i can't find him...

*Updated Fauna:*

1 Otocinclus affinis
1 BN ancistrus
2 Brachydanio tinwini
10+ Celestichthys erythromycin (maybe?)
14+ Celestichthys margaritatus
3 Celestichthys choprae
7+ Microdevario kubotai
4+ Amano shrimp

Soon I will adding 1 more kubotai, 6 more cpds and 10 chili rasbora... I'm also thinking of adding a big group of Trigonostigma hengeli... apparently they are peaceful schooling fish that will get along...


----------



## alto

Great to see updates on this one 

I still think your H polysperma isn’t all that happy - do you have soft or hard tap water?

I know I should look back to see ..... but .... what’s the substrate again?
While the emerse growth can easily strip the water column of nutrients, an enriched substrate should allow the submerse plants to manage fairly well

CO2?
Seachem Excel etc?
Daily fertilizers?
Water change?

Again I know I could look back in time for some of this info but thinking you may be changing things up as the tank goes along 

30-50 M kubotai would look amazing in this tank (but maybe they are more $$ in your area - some shops will do you a bag lot at ~half retail (or less depending) if you pick fish up upon shipment delivery, ie they never go into shop tanks)

I’m surprised M kubotai would be bothered by the choprae as they seem pretty resilient themselves, but I’ve kept them in groups of at least 25 - the males can be pretty determined when sparring & hassling over territory 

Lots of various “harlequin” rasbora shots in Mark Evans “Prairie Lands”
All of the _Trigonostigma _species are lovely aquarium fish, you can easily do a mixed group 

I just looked at T somphongsi profile on Seriously Fish


----------



## alto

hitmanx said:


> I wish I could get them out of there...


Bottle trap?

It’s a bit of a hassle but should work 

Easier if you can move the “wrong” trapped fish to the sump (or other holding tank)


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> Good grief... open space means maximum velocity for the remaining _Celestichthys choprae_ to chase and harass the other fish...


Small fish are usually happier with as much cover as possible, partially because it breaks up "line of sight". 

Often people say "_there wasn't room for the fish to swim around_", but that is anthropomorphic view. If you can see the fish easily, so can predatory larger fish, birds, aquatic mammals etc. You know that you don't have any Herons or Otters in your living room, but the fish don't. 

I actually prefer tanks where you can't see all the fish easily. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## mort

Completely agree with Darrel. You might be able to intice them out a bit more though if you added more but you have a pretty perfect area for them at the back of the tank so I think it will be hard.
Normally some dither fish would help but I can't think of any bold species that would fit with you current stocking and not out compete, hopefully someone else might.


----------



## mort

I also sympathise with the choprae. I had a group of ten and they were really well behaved but after a 4 years or so that number dwindled to about 6 and they became a pain. I trapped half with a bottle trap but the other 3 were too crafty to go in it, so I had to go in a fully jungle planted tank with a net. Surprisingly I caught the 3 without much bother (I did run a lfs for a few years though so am a ninja with a net) so I say it is worth a try to net them even if you think it's impossible, just have a stick that you can gentle coax them out with and maybe partition an area of the tank to corral them into.

I still have 6 in their new tank and they are fine now.


----------



## hitmanx

alto said:


> Great to see updates on this one
> 
> I still think your H polysperma isn’t all that happy - do you have soft or hard tap water?



My tap water is rock hard so I originally mixed it 50/50 with RO water... I believe the hardness was 10dGh when I started and I think that's what it is now... tds has always hovered around 360ish... Kh always reads around 1 or 2...

The substrate consists of a sprinkling of osmocote+, 40 lbs of ADA Malaya, 30 lbs of new and used ADA Amazonia, 70 lbs of safe t sorb (mainly in the back) and 1 lb of ground peat moss... I also added mexican clay pellets recently... I've tried root tabs but they didn't seem to do anything...

While the initial growth was great at the substrate, I really have struggled to grow much down there after the first year...

This tank is non CO2, no excel, and I try to do  10% water changes per week with salty shrimp remineralised RO water, but the first year was RO top off only I believe...

Fertz twice per week:

EQUILIBRIUM 3 dash
KNO3 3 dash
KH2PO4 1 pinch + 1 nip
EDTA Fe 1 dash

I don't remember what the ppms of those doses are... I will have to check...

I would love a big school of something and the kubotai are great dither fish... they are fearless which helps the cpds etc feel more comfortable and they come out of hiding a lot more now... I haven't decided on more kubotai or T. Hengli  ($3CAD vs $2CAD)... my LFS has 30 kubotai coming in next week so maybe i will ask if they can give me a discount if I just take them right away...

The last I used the bottle trap the only thing that went in there was amano shrimp...


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Small fish are usually happier with as much cover as possible, partially because it breaks up "line of sight".
> 
> I actually prefer tanks where you can't see all the fish easily.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I do agree but I think it depends on species dynamics... before I chopped the jungle down i watched the fish for a long time and they still seemed skitish because they were all so separated... now that it's open the kubotai are schooling out in the open even when I'm right there and the cpds don't seem bothered by my presence now.. . The Celestichthys erythromycin are a whole different story... nothing gets those guys out unless I sit across the room and don't move for a few minutes...

Either way, the open space is actually only about half the tank space in total... there's plenty of hiding spots they utilize in and behind the hardscape...

View attachment 96187


As far as it being an anthropomorphic idea, sure, but I was taking the idea based on some species like danios needing open space to swim... before I set up this tank I watched a lot of YouTube videos of the natural habitats in Burma and other asian countries... marginal vegetation along with a border of crypt species and then open water seemed to prevail the small fish seemed to flit about in the open and dart back into cover and come out again... in the case of lake Inle where cpds are from there's a lot of floating hornwort ect so I can see that being beneficial but ugly from a aquascape standpoint... 

But either way, when I added the kubotai as dither fish, the game changed... I believe the Asian rummy nose or Sabwa resplendens takes that chore at lake Inle, but I don't like the look of those guys or their behaviour... I was actually looking at them yesterday at the my lfs...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> Either way, the open space is actually only about half the tank space in total... there's plenty of hiding spots they utilize in and behind the hardscape...


I'm not saying it is a poor environment for them, it is a wonderful tank, and even if it didn't have any submersed plants it would still be better in terms of fish welfare than 99% of other tanks. 





hitmanx said:


> i watched the fish for a long time and they still seemed skitish because they were all so separated... now that it's open the kubotai are schooling out in the open


This is sort of it. 

I've not kept any of these species, but I have kept a lot of different Tetra species and none of them are really fish that school, they use "safety in numbers", but when there isn't any threat they all hunt individually, or in small groups of two or three. 

In evolutionary terms it makes sense, watchfulness and larger group size work when you have a threat, but if you don't it is much better to be an individual in terms of foraging, because you don't have to share your food find with other fish. There is very little food naturally in open water, it is all produced in the biofilm and plants. It is as simple as if a fish is a more successful forager it will pass on more of its genes. 

There is evolutionary research on "exploratory behaviour" in Wild Guppies (_Poecilia reticulata_). "......_Using guppies from multiple streams and rivers in Trinidad, we compared guppies from high- and low-predation populations. We found that wild-caught male and female guppies from low-predation populations were more exploratory than high-predation fish when tested in the field and in controlled laboratory conditions_......" <"Environmental and genetic effects on exploratory behavior of high- and low-predation guppies (_Poecilia reticulata_)">.

If the main predator type of a habitat was a species that was an ambush predator (like a Water Scorpion or Dragonfly nymph) then you might find species that spent longer in open water, but they still would have to come into the vegetation to feed. 

Dither fish definitely work, if you keep _Apistogramma_ spp. they are much more out and about in a tank with dithers. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Conort2

hitmanx said:


> As far as it being an anthropomorphic idea, sure, but I was taking the idea based on some species like danios needing open space to swim... before I set up this tank I watched a lot of YouTube videos of the natural habitats in Burma and other asian countries... marginal vegetation along with a border of crypt species and then open water seemed to prevail the small fish seemed to flit about in the open and dart back into cover and come out again... in the case of lake Inle where cpds are from there's a lot of floating hornwort ect so I can see that being beneficial but ugly from a aquascape standpoint...
> 
> But either way, when I added the kubotai as dither fish, the game changed... I believe the Asian rummy nose or Sabwa resplendens takes that chore at lake Inle, but I don't like the look of those guys or their behaviour... I was actually looking at them yesterday at the my lfs...



I believe the kubotai are from fast flowing streams in Thailand that are pretty much devoid of vegetation. Danio choprae are from a similar habitat therefore they will probably enjoy the open space your given them. I used to keep a shoal of devario patherina in a planted tank and they absolutely hated it if it got overgrown so I think it does depend what species you have. The issue is as youve seen that your cpd love cover, their habitat is the complete opposite of the danios and kubotai. They're from weed choked ponds and ditches. I hardly ever see mine in my tank.

Maybe if you could plant some more lower growing plants such as crypts or maybe echinodorus tennellus that way your fish get the best of both worlds, open water up top but plenty of cover on the bottom for the cpds.

Cheers

Conor


----------



## hitmanx

Conort2 said:


> Maybe if you could plant some more lower growing plants such as crypts or maybe echinodorus tennellus that way your fish get the best of both worlds, open water up top but plenty of cover on the bottom for the cpds.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Conor



Indeed the cpds like the cover provided by the hardscape and utilize it well and the vegetation close to it, but having the kubotai up in the water column definately makes them more at ease... I feel like the kubotai feel more at home in the open as do the tinwini and choprae... so I have cover for the margaritatus and erythromycin, and open water for the others...

The entire substrate was covered in crypts and tennellus at one time but they have since died away... thats a whole other issue I'm dealing with...


----------



## hitmanx

alto said:


> I still think your H polysperma isn’t all that happy - do you have soft or hard tap water?





 

See above picture with the polysperma on the left growing under brighter lights than the stems on the right... thats not a shadow... the colour is actually more pale and are under the same lights now...


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> I also sympathise with the choprae.



It's too bad... the Celestichthys choprae are actually very beautiful fish... if I didn't have an open top I would actually have a large shoal of them in the tank... when I had close to 20 of them in here it was awesome to watch them flit about together as their colours are so vivid... but they all jumped out except for the last 3... even now as I watch them they are exhibiting some very interesting sparring behaviour similar to the cpds... and they are the only fish in the tank that successfully had fry that matured in the sump...

Now if I could only get the cpds to breed...

Besides the ancistrus, otociclus and the amano shrimp, all of the fish hail from Burma (Myanmar) so it would be cool to continue that theme, but a big school of trigonostigma hengeli would certainly be more eye catching and colourful than the kubotai... but they are from Sumatra...


----------



## hitmanx

The overflow and sump!!

Somehow the Siamese Algae Eater got down into the sump! How is that possible?? He's already bigger than the c. Choprae...

The overflow is surrounded by #10 plastic canvas... unless they jump over that and then over the leaf gutter guard which is an inch taller...

Could they possibly be swimming into the return pipe and down into the pump and somehow not get chewed up?? 

I'm so confused...


----------



## Edvet

I think you underestimate their jumping capabilities


----------



## hitmanx

A gritty shot of the whole tank as I see it...


----------



## Marc Davis

hitmanx said:


> A gritty shot of the whole tank as I see it...


Reaaly nice. Just needs dwarf sag. to carpet the front and job done


----------



## hitmanx

I've got 6 more Celestichthys margaritas, 22 more Microdevario kubotai waiting in a quarantine tank...

I'm gonna be adding some cryptocoryne wendtii 'green' and 'kompact' to the darker areas... its the only crypt species i haven't  tried in the tank... and if I can get the front section carpeted with dwarf sag I will be happy...


----------



## hitmanx

The sump is finally cleaned...





I rinsed the poret filter for the first time since start up... it wasnt actually that bad although it is only 10ppi... I siphoned out the mulm in the sump with a python and replaced the water with remineralised RO...

I went fishing with my daughter and caught 12 Celestichthys erythromicron, 1 Microdevario kubotai, and the Siamese Algae Eater which has quadrupled in size since the last time he was in the display tank... I was actually expecting more to be down there... 

This is the best I could do with this fast swimming fish...





I put everything back together but now the pump is making a cavitation noise and the display is quite cloudy... I put a 5 micron sock under the drain pipe and added some seachem prime just in case... I had to readjust the bean animal drain valve so I  guess the filter was holding back some water...

I was going to finally replace the old pump with the new eheim compact+ 5000 I bought last year,  but the hose size is different so I need new plumbing parts...

I will update the list of flora and fauna later... there's also a fry of unknown species in a breeder box in the sump now...


----------



## hitmanx

*Fauna (Dec 2018)*

1 Otocinclus affinis
1 BN ancistrus
1 Siamese Algae Eater
2 Brachydanio tinwini (Myanmar)
13 Celestichthys erythromycin (Myanmar)
14 Celestichthys margaritatus (Myanmar)
3 Celestichthys choprae (Myanmar)
8 Microdevario kubotai (Thailand/Myanmar)
4+ Amano shrimp

What seems strange is I have NEVER seen a dead body in the tank or sump... yes I've had jumpers but not enough to account for the losses since startup... unless my dogs are eating the bodies 

A lot of the fish were pushing 3 years old so probably age related... but I've lost 7 kubotai since September and I've never seen a body... I do miss the brachydanio tinwini shoal... they were gorgeous but I can't find anymore...

Feeding has always been something I have worried about... common wisdom says don't feed to much but it's hard to know what too much is when you have a community tank with different types of fish and feeding habits...

I really don't think I feed enough and it will be interesting to see how the margaritatus and erythromicron fair with the new shoal of kubotai being out front eating all the food... given the age of the tank and non sterile conditions I'm sure there's all sorts of critters to supliment them but I don't know... I definately see them hunting something...

*Waiting in quarantine:*

6 Celestichthys margaritatus
18 Microdevario kubotai
6 Boraras brigittae

Not all the kubotai in quarantine were healthy when I got them and 4 have died by what seems like starvation with sunken bellies, odd swimming and death... no other signs of why... same thing happened with the brigittae as I started with 12 and down to 6 or 7... but they showed signs of fungus... the remaining seem healthy...


----------



## tam

I'm feeding ember tetra, scarlet badis (live food only), otos, corys, 1 amano and some cherry shrimp and I feed once a day. Three days a week daphnia with a few blood worm. About once a week a slice of courgette or twice a week a 1cm cube of rapashy for the algae eaters. Three days a mix of .5mm slow sinking pellets (never hit the bottom) and bug bites bottom feeders (too big for the mid water fish to eat whole). I usually miss 1 day in 10 just being busy. That way everyone gets something but not necessarily every day of the week and the live food is good as it will just hang out in the tank until it's eaten.


----------



## hitmanx

Apparently I jinxed it...

I had a kubotai jump out and dry up the other day and another one was chased out by the choprae right in front of me... it was spectacular! He made it several feet from the tank...

Luckily I was able to get him back in the tank with ease...


----------



## hitmanx

I moved 17 Microdevario kubotai and 5 rasboras brigittae into the riparium today... the front of the tank is again a hub of excitement...





Yesterday I added some Ludwigia repens to the middle left... I've never tried this plant before and it should break up the green if it grows...



[

 I also added a large portion of trident java fern and I will be splitting it up and gluing it to the manzanita in the back middle with the leaves coming out towards the front... hopfully its not a algae and scum magnet...





I want to do something with this stump... it's too small for the ficus pumila... I'm thinking of a wabi kusa draped over the back with various emersed plants at a smaller scale... as long as i keep the plants above trimmed back it should do well 





Also something that I have noticed since using the salty shrimp for remineralizing the RO water for changes is the snail population has rebounded in a big way... the tank must have been deficient in calcium I guess? Over all theres less of that mushy algae too...


----------



## hitmanx

Now that snails seem to like my tank I'm going to try some other species that may help keep my tank clean... I've had the bigger red and brown ramshorn snails before in harder water setups and I like them... but I want to try malaysian trumpet snails to help with the substrate and nerites of different kinds...

I picked up 6 various specimens today of neritinae and clithon, but I am unsure of the exact species... 





They're in the quarantine tank now, as I had a zebra nerite before that died within a day and I think it brought planaria with it...


----------



## hitmanx

I have lots of updates coming, but I wanted to get this problem out of the way first...

For a long time I've been dealing with various deficiencies in the submerssed plants and the recent addition of Hygrophila angustifolia, which is known to be a canary for problems, has been showing signs of deficiency...

These leaves are not new but either the second or third one down... they are some of the brightest areas in the tank...





They are near the surface, some in high flow and some less so... I know some of you will say that holes in leaves are always due to flow and co2 distribution but it shouldn't matter as much in a non injected tank right?





I have stopped using dry ferts and have been using Thrive all-in-one and equilibrium... I'm dosing twice as much as the bottle says for a low tech and im consistently changing about 10% weekly...

Any ideas?


----------



## hitmanx

I did some rearranging in the back, cleared the area above the left stump, added salvinia natans, Hygrophila angustifolia, heterantha zosterfolia to the brighter sections and more crypt wendtii and lutea to the shaded, and started using Thrive all-in-one fertilizer instead of dry ferts... I am seeing deficiencies  in the stems and the dwarf sag is living but not sending runners.. . I am about to add osmocote substrate ferts so hopefully I will see an improvement.. . The mexican clay tablets I added back at Xmas definitely added more growth and colour to the crypts I put them near...





Besides some Pilea cardieri placed in a few places, I added another Anthurium, but a different hybrid... smaller with pointy leaves and pointy purple spathes... also added an unknown fern with the roots stuffed in a wet portion of the driftwood with some sphagnum (possibly Korean rock fern)...





I used some sphagnum moss wrapped in hair net hanging on the stump with its toes in the water for the Anthurium...









I still haven't decided what I am going to do with the left stump... but I added some spiky moss at the waterline...





The recent addition of the salvinia has made all the floaters more loose and therefore more prone to moving around and thereby ending up on the far left where it gets stuck on the overflow... so I am trying something new... I used fishing line and little foam pieces to make a floater barrier... it a kind of ugly and you can see the foam from underneath but it's an experiment... surface scum has accumulated within the area now...





The fern has been drying out in the lower humidity this year so I had to trim a bunch of fronds and it's kind of lost its shape... it has an open crown and I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of the thing and maybe starting with a new one that doesn't have such a large rhizome...

Here it is in the moonlight...


----------



## TBRO

Amazing project! I bet it looks cool from below, seeing all the roots in the water. 

I’ve only just strayed into the emergant growth area, I’m also amazed by how the emergant plants, gobble up all the nutrients. Like running a high tech underwater scape! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> also added an unknown fern


It is a _Polystichum_ sp. (pointed pinnules and a basal "thumb") so Korean Rock Fern (_P. tsussimense) _


hitmanx said:


> I had to trim a bunch of fronds and it's kind of lost its shape... it has an open crown and I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of the thing and maybe starting with a new one that doesn't have such a large rhizome...


Cut the middle of the rhizome mass out and then replant some of the younger rhizomes, they naturally go bald in the middle over time. 





TBRO said:


> I’m also amazed by how the emergant plants, gobble up all the nutrients.


The emergent and floating plants look pretty healthy, so I might try upping the fertiliser a little bit for the faster growing submerged stems. 

The nutrient reduction potential is really large with these kinds of system. They use the same principle in waste water treatment with <"floating rafts">, and <"vertical flow constructed wetlands">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

It took along time for me to scour the internets to find the probable I'D of Korean rock fern... if only I knew what pointed pinnules and a basal "thumb" was...

Indeed I have always assumed the marginal plants have been taking most of the added fertilizers... but I'm still not convinced the issues are fert related instead of co2 related...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> if only I knew what pointed pinnules and a basal "thumb" was


 Ferns all look the same (bit of a generalisation I know), but the ways of differentiating them are based on the shape of the spore bearing bodies (the sporangia, clustered in a sorus) and the architecture of the fronds. 

The frond consists of a central "rachis". The bare bit at the bottom is the "stipe", and above that the green bits are the "frond", usually split into "pinnae". The pinnae terminate in "pinnules", which may, or may not, have an apical point and or/spine.

Sometimes the basal pinnule of the first pinnae of the frond is enlarged into a "thumb". The genus_ Polystichum_ has pointed pinnules and a basal thumb, like your plant has.

I don't have a fern guide for N. America, but have a look at this <"UK fern guide"> for a description and glossary.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> I don't have a fern guide for N. America, but have a look at this <"UK fern guide"> for a description and glossary.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thanks for this resource... it is helpful


----------



## hitmanx

Changes over time...

Jan 2017





Feb 2017





Mar 2017





Apr 2017





Jul 2017





Aug 2017





Sep 2017





Dec 2017





Feb 2018





May 2018





Jun 2018





Jul 2018





Aug 2018





Sep 2018





Nov 2018





Dec 2018





Jan 2019





Feb 2019





Since the last photo series, I have made consistent 7% water changes and switched to Thrive all-in-one fertz, finally cleaned the poret filter in the sump and overall kept the substrate and sump cleaner by sucking out detritus... the synedra algae is gone finally but pinholes in older submersed leaves have been a problem since last August... The Ludwigia repens has done terrible in all spots I put it... the lysimachia nummularia was growing great and then all of a sudden has decided to grow like crap or not at all... all the new cryptocoryne wendtii and lutea is doing well and I've added a bunch of stems of one of my favourite plants, hygrophila angustifolia to the back... this plant needs tall tanks as it's big and grows relatively fast, but if I keep on top of its size it does create a sense of fullness and movement, but of course it's showing signs of deficiency... I also added heteranthera zosterifolia to various places but it only thrives in the brightest areas in the middle... the dwarf sag "carpet" lives, but refuses to send runners... I just added about 20 osmocote root tabs so we shall see if that changes at all... i am goomg to wait awhile and then up the water column fertz...

The 5 amano shrimp, Siamese Algae Eater and neritina snails are helping to keep things clean as well... I am going to try cherry shrimp again soon as the c. Choprae are finally down in the sump... I was able to net them in desperation and perseverance...

I am now seriously thinking about moving the maidenhair fern to another wabi kusa... I'm sick of it being so oppressive in this setup...


----------



## aquacoen

Great to see the development of your beautiful Swamp!!


----------



## hitmanx

Just chilling...


----------



## Filip Krupa

Fantastic tank. I was thinking of a similar setup, shallow with lots if emergent growth.
Ended up with, well, a beast.

Hows the bean animal overflow working for you? I've installed the same. Cant believe how quiet and reliable it is. Genius

Fil


----------



## hitmanx

I decided to add some more otociclus today to round out the school to 5... they seem very healthy but are pretty small...

 I also got the chance to get some wild type cherry shrimp to try, but this time most of them went into the breeder box in the sump so I can observe their survival without the threat of predation and accidental destruction from the powerheads etc... 5 adults and 12 babies... as I've said the 5 amano shrimp in the display are doing great, but I just haven't had any luck with cherry shrimp... perhaps with the Celestichthys choprae sequestered to the dark regions of the sump, the cherries will have a fighting chance... I did release a few into the display as well...

Here's hoping...


----------



## hitmanx

Filip Krupa said:


> Hows the bean animal overflow working for you? I've installed the same. Cant believe how quiet and reliable it is. Genius
> 
> Fil



The bean animal is great, but because I am using the coast to coast overflow to hold riparium planters so the flow to the pipes fluctuates and sometimes I need to adjust the main valve to compensate for this... if the overflow was open, it would be silent 100% of the time... also the plastic canvas that guards the overflow affects the flow so I need to shake it clean...


----------



## hitmanx

This is the Salvinia minima I have in the riparium... it isn't especially healthy and is getting these brown spots on them since I added the fishing line around them... surface scum collects in that area now so maybe it's affecting it...





But then I have some in my wabi kusa and it's more healthy but grows bigger but some also goes moldy some times if it gets too crowded...





I also have some in my quarantine tank... it's small but healthy... it gets wet from a air sponge filter but is doing well...





And also in my smaller riparium with surface scum and a cyano problem it's getting alot of brown spots...





My point is it's growing different in all my tanks and I don't really know why it's getting these brown spots... not sure if it's deficiency or the scum...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> it isn't especially healthy and is getting these brown spots on them





hitmanx said:


>


That is lensing where water droplets have got onto the leaves and then acted as lens causing the burn marks. You can see the droplets in some of the other photos.

Because _Salvinia_ has a flat leaf, that is hydrophobic, you get spherical water droplets and these are effective lenses. 



 

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> That is lensing where water droplets have got onto the leaves and then acted as lens causing the burn marks.
> cheers Darrel



I would normally agree but there is no splashing or agitation in the tanks with the brown spots and the tank with the most splashing water has absolutely no brown spots at all...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> no splashing or agitation in the tanks with the brown spots


It might be dripping condensation (from one of the emersed plants or the luminaire)? or fertiliser burn?

Not sure otherwise, but it definitely looks like a burn mark.





hitmanx said:


> and the tank with the most splashing water has absolutely no brown spots at all...


I think it depends on the light source, you don't get it with fluorescent tubes, but you do with a point light source (it was really common with HPS growlights).

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It might be dripping condensation (from one of the emersed plants or the luminaire)? or fertiliser burn?
> 
> Not sure otherwise, but it definitely looks like a burn mark.I think it depends on the light source, you don't get it with fluorescent tubes, but you do with a point light source (it was really common with HPS growlights).
> 
> cheers Darrel



No dripping or condensation of any kind... all open... the riparium have par38 LED bulbs and the wabi has par30 LED so they are point source... but the wabi does not have the brown spots... the quarantine tank had a finnex LED...

Anyways I'm probably taking them out of the main tanks... they grow so fast and are good nitrate scrubbers so I will probably only keep them in the wabi and quarantine tank... I need more nutrients in the riparium not less!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





dw1305 said:


> Because _Salvinia_ has a flat leaf, that is hydrophobic, you get spherical water droplets and these are effective lenses.


I should have put the <"reference"> in for that one.





> ........ However, we showed that highly refractive spheroid water drops held 'in focus' by hydrophobic wax hairs on leaves of Salvinia natans (floating fern) can indeed cause sunburn because of the extremely high light intensity in the focal regions, and the loss of water cooling as a result of the lack of intimate contact between drops and the leaf tissue.......





hitmanx said:


> they grow so fast and are good nitrate scrubbers so I will probably only keep them in the wabi and quarantine tank... I need more nutrients in the riparium not less!


Your's look pretty healthy, and they <"definitely hoover up the nutrients">. _Salvinia_ spp.  have been used quite widely  in phytoremediation 





> ......In summary, _S. minima_ is a better option than _S. polyrrhiza_ for treating high-strength organic wastewater and lagoons should be operated at a maximum initial ammonium–nitrogen concentration of 70 mg l−1.......


cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

Yes I think salvinia should be mandatory for new setups... I'm sure it would help alot of people out with getting a tank started without problems...

I'm just not sure it's good as a long term plant... I have probably exacerbated my nutrient problems by adding the salvinia minima...


----------



## hitmanx

Not quite cold yet, and the workers spring to action... I bumped my head on the stand while working on the sump and this guy jumps out, lands on my back but does not recover after outing back in the tank... 5min later, he's being dismantled piece by piece.. .





I bought 5 adult wild cherry shrimp and about a dozen babies and put them in a breeder box in the sump... they are surviving with only one loss of the largest female... the ones I put in the display quickly made their way down to the sump so the overflow guard isn't stopping them...





I trimmed and replanted the stems and it's looking sparse again... lower leaves are still melting and pinholes are still a problem... the heterantha zosterfolia is doing well but the hygrophila angustifolia is showing the most signs of deficiency what ever it is... the osmocote root tabs haven't done much of anything to the dwarf sag... I'm giving it a month to see results before I start increasing my water column fertz to address the other deficiencies....





I added some large ramshorn snails and they seem to be getting on well... 4 more otociclus were also added last week but 1 didn't make it... a couple of the smaller neritina snails decided to kick the bucket... the yellow and black ones and the small black horned ones... the other larger spotted and grey ones seem to be happily grazing...

Since cleaning the filter and sump and consistently sucking out mulm and dead leaves, has really cleaned up this tank... I don't notice the crud all around anymore unless I agitate the maiden hair fern roots... just one more reason why I want to get rid of that plant... I'm sure the 5 amano shrimp, 4 Otocinclus, 8-10 nerites, 5 ramshorn and countless mini ramshorn snails are all helping to keep things tidy as well...  I am just hoping the ramshorn population doesn't explode...


----------



## Filip Krupa

Nice update. Like the detail.



hitmanx said:


> I bought 5 adult wild cherry shrimp



I thought cherry shrimp have been bred from a wild population of colourless shrimp?
Sounds like you got yourself some feral cherry shrimp! 

Fil


----------



## hitmanx

Filip Krupa said:


> Nice update. Like the detail.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought cherry shrimp have been bred from a wild population of colourless shrimp?
> Sounds like you got yourself some feral cherry shrimp!
> 
> Fil



'Wild type I guess... I assume they are just culls.... they are pretty clear now, but they colour up slightly brown when the are on darker substrate... half the babies are red cherry shrimp...


----------



## hitmanx

Last week I ran some tests...

Ph 6.8-7.0 (hard to tell)
Kh <1
Gh 8
Tds 321

So gh and ph seems to be dropping over time... the kh has always been low because of the buffering of the aquasoil and safe t sorb... i have been using remineralised RO water set to 6gh with Salty Shrimp gh+

Since Jan 1st 2019, I have been using Thrive all-in-one fertilizer and seachem equilibrium and I dose 3 times a week...

According to rotala butterfly the addition of 24 ml Thrive and 0.75 tsp Equilibrium to my 65gal aquarium adds:

Element    ppm/degree
NO3    12.92
Po4     2.40
K         12.20
Fe       0.48
Mg     0.98
Ca      1.23 
Cu      0.0088
B        0.2243
Co      0.0002
Mn     0.0585
Mo     0.0018
Zn    0.0156

This is over the entire week, divided by three doses... again I have been using the numbers Tom bar suggested for a non co2 low tech with no water changes... but I have been doing water changes for awhile now and those numbers didn't include riparium plants which obviously hog all the go go juice...

How much can I increase the ferts without over doing it, given I only do 7-10% waterchanges per week? I know excess ferts dont cause algae, but im wondering about the fauna... I know I can slowly increase them but I'm looking for a good start...


----------



## Edvet

hitmanx said:


> I know I can slowly increase them but I'm looking for a good start...


Just use Darrel's duckweed index, you'll always be om the lean side with it if that's what you want.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> Tds 321
> 
> So gh and ph seems to be dropping over time... the kh has always been low because of the buffering of the aquasoil and safe t sorb... i have been using remineralised RO water set to 6gh with Salty Shrimp gh+


The TDS is quite high. 

If  you are happy with plant and fish health I'd keep the TDS about that level.





Edvet said:


> Just use Darrel's duckweed index, you'll always be om the lean side with it if that's what you want.


Unsurprisingly that is what I would do.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, The TDS is quite high.
> 
> If  you are happy with plant and fish health I'd keep the TDS about that level.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Indeed, it does seem high... for the longest time the tds was around 400 but since doing regular small water changes it's stabilized around 300ish... now at a gh of 8, that's only about 133ppm accounted for... what makes up the other half? I don't know...

I definitely use the frogbit to gauge the overall health of the system... I removed all the salvinia as I didn't really like the colour contrast with the frogbit and it was allowing surface scum to form in the area separated by the fishing line...





The frogbit is mostly green but doesn't seem 100%... some yellow or faded or brown leaves and some holes...





I have decided to increase the dose of seachem equilibrium... maybe more magnesium and potassium is what my plants need... I am doubling what I've been putting in thus far... if I increase the magnesium with mgso4 the ratio to calcium will be too far off but I don't know if that's important...

I'm still not sure if the osmocote root tabs have done anything yet to the dwarf sag... I only put them on one side of the tank as an experiment...

this side has them...





And this side does not...





The water column nutrients are one thing... the substrate issues with these dwarf sag make no sense... has anyone had dwarf sag grow only 1 to 2 inches high, look generally healthy, but not send any runners for year?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> what makes up the other half? I don't know..


Unfortunately it is difficult to find numbers with out some fairly expensive kit. 

Some of it will be the anions that plants only need in small amounts HCO3-, Cl- and SO4-- etc. When you add a nutrient (a salt)  usually you will have one component that you want, and one that you want in smaller amounts, if at all. You can get around this by adding salts where both components are needed in large amounts like KNO3, K2HPO4 etc. but they aren't always available, or they may be a lot more expensive (Mg(NO3)2.6H2O) or they may come with toxicity risks (NH4NO3) etc.





hitmanx said:


> The frogbit is mostly green but doesn't seem 100%... some yellow or faded or brown leaves and some holes...


It looks fairly healthy. The damage to the older leaves may be lack of a mobile nutrient, but it could also be drip or snail damage.

If it was my frogbit I'd be fairly happy with it. 





hitmanx said:


> I have decided to increase the dose of seachem equilibrium... maybe more magnesium and potassium is what my plants need


Why don't you just add more magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K) salts? "Equilibrium" would be an expensive option, and I'm pretty sure you don't need any more calcium (Ca). 





hitmanx said:


> if I increase the magnesium with mgso4 the ratio to calcium will be too far off but I don't know if that's important...


As the levels of calcium go up you may begin to get problems with iron chelation and magnesium uptake. Iron deficiencies would show first in the younger leaves (smaller and more yellow).

cheers Darrel.


----------



## hitmanx

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> If it was my frogbit I'd be fairly happy with it.
> 
> Why don't you just add more magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K) salts? "Equilibrium" would be an expensive option, and I'm pretty sure you don't need any more calcium (Ca). As the levels of calcium go up you may begin to get problems with iron chelation and magnesium uptake. Iron deficiencies would show first in the younger leaves (smaller and more yellow).
> 
> cheers Darrel.



I've been only using .75 tsp of equilibrium a week so 1.5tsp won't break the bank, I can understand the extra calcium... I have "Epsom salts USP" in the bathroom but I don't know if that's safe... is that MgSO4 and safe for fish?

Clive always talks about structural damage and holes and melting leaves as an indictator of poor co2 and flow/distribution... I wouldn't think this would be such an issue in a low tech shallow tank with overflow and sump... the co2 should be at the maximum level of equilibrium it can achieve from the air... there's got to be another explaination for my stem woes... what is the limiting factor here?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> I have "Epsom salts USP" in the bathroom but I don't know if that's safe... is that MgSO4 and safe for fish?


Yes and yes, only thing to note that it will be the heptahydrate (MgSO4.7H2O) and ~10% Mg. The USP bit just means that it is pharmaceutical grade and has a high level of purity.





hitmanx said:


> Clive always talks about structural damage and holes and melting leaves as an indictator of poor co2 and flow/distribution..


Yes, that is the reason for the floating plant, it has access to 400ppm CO2, so any issues aren't related to CO2 availability.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

Yes the duckweed index is indeed a great idea... but because the frog bit is generally in very good health can I only assume it's a co2 issue and if it is I have no way of fixing it...


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





hitmanx said:


> but because the frog bit is generally in very good health can I only assume it's a co2 issue and if it is I have no way of fixing it...


I'd just carry on the way you are. Because your submerged plants look in generally good health, I think they will eventually start to fill in.  

You definitely aren't suffering from any major deficiencies. If it was my tank and I wanted a bit more growth I'd look at adding a bit more KNO3 and some magnesium and see what happens.

Things take a bit longer without CO2, but if you look back through your images to Jan. 2017 your plants have done really well.




 

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

Thanks Darrel...

I'm over analyzing I'm sure... the dwarf has me stumped though...


----------



## sciencefiction

Fantastic tank @hitmanx 

In relation to the dwarf sag, do you have another tank to try some in? I used to keep it in a low tech juwel tank. It just hung around there for over a year without growing or dying. The light I used was the original one that came in the tank until after the third time it broke I bought an LED. Then the dwarf sag took off. Your emersed section plus the taller plants might be shadowing it a bit, or at least its a possibility. It happened to me in a tank with both emersed and submerged growth. In my observation, generally a plant that doesn't grow or spread at all, isn't getting sufficient light. Low CO2, low nutrients, etc..never have that extreme effect because any small amount of them the plant gets, it can utilize eventually. Where with light, there is such a thing as light compensation point, below which the plant just won't grow. 

As for the floaters, I was never able to grow them in a tank that also has emersed growth. They just dwindled and died eventually, although I do not tend to dose much extra nutrients, if any these days. The emersed plants are powerful nutrient sponges and its hard for any other plants to compete with them, even other floaters,  although I am sure it is possible with some extra nutrient doses.

Great tank. Looking forward to further progress.


----------



## hitmanx

Thanks everyone for the ideas...

You have me thinking about light... it's the great unknown here... I am using par38 LEDs and I have no frame of reference for PAR values as they're not very popular... I wish I had a meter to see what im actually dealing with...

Assuming the co2 and flow/distribution is consistent and my fertilizers are adequate or close to it, the limiting factor could be light... intensity or shading or photoperiod... if I had a meter I could rule out intensity... I don't think I have a shading issue besides the maidenhair fern for one area as I designed the riparium section to be way behind the submersed growth... so maybe it's photoperiod...









I started the tank as a drystart method in Nov or Dec of 2016 at 100% brightness for 12hrs and once filled in Jan 2017 I think I lowered the intensity to 75% for 6hrs and ramped that up to 7hrs after a month... I did not experience much in the way of algae until the summer and that was black fuzz on the carpet plants that stopped growing and synedra after that and was probably associated with high organics... after battling that for a longtime, I lowered the intensity to 65% in Feb 2018 where's it stayed until the summer where I had a greenwater or bacterial bloom at which point I lowered the intensity to 55% for 6hrs with a 30min noon at 75%... some synedra algae continued, but since cleaning the the poret filter and and sucking out all the mulm in the sump, all that has disappeared... there's only a tiny bit of bba here and there but nothing to worry about... Last month I increased the lights to 60% because I didn't like the spectrum at 55%... it seemed too blue and I'm not sure why...

And that's where we sit now...

What does all this mean? I have no idea what I'm doing with the lights... turn up the intensity? I'm afraid of an algae farm that will have to battle... longer photoperiod? 

Obviously the emersed plants grow... but really the only stems that do well are hygrophila polysperma and now heterantha zosterfolia... the hygrophila angustifolia isn't doing well and as mentioned the dwarf sag is struggling and all other carpet plants died out except cryptocoryne parva and nevilii... Ludwigia repens disintegrated and the Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' isn't far behind... Cryptocoryne wendtii and lutea grow well on the sides and of course anubias do well...

I know I'm nitpicking at this point and overall I love the overall look of this tank, but I tend to overanalyze in the cold depths of winter.. . Pretty soon it will be spring outside and I will neglect the tank yet again...


----------



## sciencefiction

hitmanx said:


> and of course anubias do well...



If you are not experiencing algae issues with anubias, your light is on the low side. Anubias for me do best in very little light, less than other plants can cope with to grow. 

The tank is lovely as it is. No need to improve anything


----------



## Kezzab

I think you may be right about light. I've had dwarf sag in a low light low tech set up and it struggled, when I increased the light (but no co2) it took off.

Just do it and then you can blame me when it all ends in tears.


----------



## zozo

I have some S. sabulata growing in a non fertilized slow tech, planted in akadama with no other light than daylight it gets from an east faced window next to it..  It's in there for about a year now, can't say it's strugling it also isn't taking off, but definitively propagating.

The tank stays relatively algae free, so i assume even it gets indirect daylight as sole light source it's not high light.. But i wouldn't know what light category to give it.. It's a pretty hardy plant that doesn't need much of anything to keep going.


----------



## hitmanx

4 months of neglect later...





She's overgrown again...





Almost no fertz for the last couple months and only 1 water change... the frogbit has suffered but all the rest is good... even the dwarf sag seems to have grown better under the H. Polysperma forest...


----------



## Paul Lane

This setup looks so good, can't wait to see the continued progress


----------



## Eplov

Amazing. This has to be one of the most interesting aquariums on the forum!


----------



## hitmanx

Trimmed, replanted and cleaned up a little...


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper

hitmanx said:


> 4 months of neglect later...



More like 4 months of AMAZINGNESS!!!


----------



## alto

The update I was hoping for 

You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)

Filipe Oliveira uses this method with limited water column fertilization to good effect 


There’s a one month video update


----------



## hitmanx

alto said:


> The update I was hoping for
> 
> You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)



I have tried them... and osocote tabs as well... honestly I didn't see much difference...

The dwarf sag did grow since February, just slowly...

Feb:




Sep:


----------



## hitmanx

The Accidental Aquascaper said:


> More like 4 months of AMAZINGNESS!!!



Thanks...

As it turns out I still have lots of fish in there... I couldn't see then before


----------



## hitmanx

alto said:


> The update I was hoping for
> 
> You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)



Actually I just checked my records.. . I added about 20 osocote di y root tabs in February so maybe they do work 

I'll try again more regularly and see what happens...


----------



## mort

Still one of my favourite tanks. I'd love to create something similar when I have the space but go for a slightly more blackwater look.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





hitmanx said:


> As it turns out I still have lots of fish in there... I couldn't see then before


Small fish are usually happier in <"densely planted tanks">, it is being out in the open that is is much more stressful for them.

I've now got used to not seeing the fish, it used to worry me, and every now and then I'd search for them, often unsuccessfully, but a few days later they would re-appear. Now I just tend to leave them to it.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

I think the fish feel comfortable even in the open space because they have so much hiding spaces behind the driftwood that takes up the other half of the scape...

I haven't seen any of the celestichthys margaritatus or celestichthys erythromicron in a long time, but here they are swimming around out front with the Microdevario kubotai:

Quick video of the fishes


----------



## hitmanx

The view from my couch...


----------



## hitmanx

The maiden hair fern is done... the leaves are browning off and it looks terrible... the sphagnum moss and the hair net holding the roots on the driftwood stump have completely disintegrated so maybe that's why it's dying... either way I'm done with it

Besides, it has reproduced around the tank with gametophytes growing on some of the stumps and the poret foam filter in the sump so it will continue living in my tank in some fashion...





I will need to fill out the void on the right side now and decide what to grow on the open stump in the middle... preferably something smaller...


----------



## hitmanx

These are the fern gametophytes and new plants growing on the side of the stump...


----------



## hitmanx

And here it is growing on the poret foam filter in the sump...


----------



## hitmanx

It's been fun watching the maiden hair fern grow from a small plant into a massive multi stemmed rhizome, but I never liked how it took over... I always wanted the simplicity of the large leaved spathaphilum as the back drop to other smaller plants as focal points of interest... although these spaths are probably hybrids of South American species, there are spaths from South East Asia that look similar so to me they fit right in...

So anyways it's about time I cleaned the sump and poret foam filter... mulm accumulation is starting to happen again on the substrate. After I cleaned it last December, a lot of the mulm and gooey algae problems went away...

Besides, a bunch of fish have made there way down to the sump again so it's time to send them back up top... and maybe rethink the overflow weird guard... on a more positive note I haven't  had a jumper in a long time...

In preparation I've decided to do daily small water changes... about 5 gallons per day with remineralized RO water, trying to get as much of the mulm and organics out as possible from the display tank and sump... using a water change calculator I figure it will be about a 40 to 50% water change over the week... the TDS was about 430ppm when i started... it's already down to 350... my goal is less then 300ppm...


----------



## mort

I must admit as much as I love the maidenhair fern I had in my old tank, I don't miss it since I took it out. The speed of growth just dominated the emerse growth and it suffered from random die off every so often that I think has been discussed on here before. It had a nice leaf structure and I'm still trying to replace it with something better so eager to see what you add as a replacement. I must admit I like the openess of your tank now it's gone and think something shorter on the wood will be an improvement.


----------



## hitmanx

Certainly a different feel to it without the blob of fern in the middle...





Not sure what to put on the wood stump now, but I figure it will be over shadowed by the spaths soon anyways... maybe a diy wabi kusa with an anthurium on it? I'm going to fill in between the spath planters with smaller spaths to cover up the empty space under the big leaves... at this point the overflow and plumbing behind is very noticeable...





I ended up sucking up some of the aquasoil while cleaning the mulm and it appears that there is some kind of off white goo or bacteria colony growing under the first layer... I sucked up the top layer in the middle front and you can see the difference... in some places I sucked out the goo layer and under that is virgin aquasoil... no sure what this is...





You can see the dirty aquasoil, the goo layer and clean aquasoil... under closer magnification the goo layer is made up of stringy white masses... algae?





Some of the older dwarf sag leaves have BBA on them...


----------



## hitmanx

3.5yrs in and the tank is still humming along... Im still alive and the tank isnt going anywhere... time to clean the sump and filter... haven't done it since Dec 2018..... 

As usual everything is over grown... trimmed it back yesterday... the peace lilies are taking over and have spaths that reach above the lights, but because there are so many the pollen drops into the water and leaves below and make a dusty mess...  

I ran out of Thrive fertz so some of the underwater plants are suffering as is the frogbit which is compounded by the aphid infestation that I've been dealing with for 2 years..... they seem to like malnourish frogbit 

I planted a grove of Val awhile back and it's doing really well... I removed all of the H. Polysperma temporarily to see if I want to simplify the scape by only having Vals, crypts, and dwarf sag, but I will need to fill in the space left behind.... I have some H. Zosterfolia sprinkled around too but it grows fast... not my style

I have some BGA, BBA and fuzz algae... need filter cleaning and more regular water changes and not leave the RO top up until 10+ gallons is needed at a time... life gets in the way... low tech tanks means I forget I even have a tank save for top ups and feeding which are both few and far between...

The fish are still humming but the sump houses alot of them  I want more fish but it seems if I have too many up top they get feisty and I get jumpers... I was thinking about something easy like endlers but that doesn't go along with the south east Asian aesthetic... of course more CPDs would be nice but they are expensive here and my breeding attempts have been fruitless... 

I will post some pictures when I have a minute...


----------



## hitmanx

This is what it looked like in April





And this is a photo I quickly took today... still needs some rescaping...


----------



## LondonDragon

Stunning, great journal too  featured on the UKAPS Facebook page! 👏


----------



## hitmanx

LondonDragon said:


> Stunning, great journal too  featured on the UKAPS Facebook page! 👏



Thanks. I'm famous!


----------



## hitmanx

I replanted some of the H. Zosterfolia around the bases of the Vals... I really don't think I want to use the H. Polysperma anymore... it grows fast and takes up too much space... I also like the idea of all the underwater plants being being grass-like instead of bushy...

I ordered more crypt wendtii 'green' to fill in the open spaces and more dwarf sag which grows super short in this tank but doesn't seem to send out many runners....

I did a water change and used a turkey baseter to remove alot of the accumulated mulm from the sump... back breaking 

I also managed to catch 3 Cpds down there and returned them to the tank... there are lots of others in the sump, but too hard to catch and I will have to wait until I fully clean it...  the 3 glowlight danios are still alive down there too... they are pushing 4years old now...

When I get the new plants i will clean things up a bit in the riparium section... then again I may not touch the tank for another couple months...

The Cat Palm is finally growing large after being in the tank for 3 years...


----------



## Kezzab

Still looking spot on.


----------



## mort

Still possibly my favourite tank on here. I just love the above and below aspect.


I have 3 glowlight danios from a group of ten that are over eight years now. I'm really surprised they have lived that long but I do find them a little boistrous and am waiting for them to pass before I add some smaller fish.


----------



## hitmanx

mort said:


> Still possibly my favourite tank on here. I just love the above and below aspect.
> 
> 
> I have 3 glowlight danios from a group of ten that are over eight years now. I'm really surprised they have lived that long but I do find them a little boistrous and am waiting for them to pass before I add some smaller fish.



Indeed, they are quite rambunctious... that's why I moved them to the sump... I was tired of picking up dead fish caused by their constant chasing of the smaller inhabitants...

Over the course of this tanks life, I have learned to manage expectations.. . I have spent a lot of money on failed plants Despite supplying copious amounts of fertilizer compared to other low techs, the riparium plants just eat it up and most underwater plants fizzle out... so far only h. Polysperma, h. Zosterfolia, Vals, easy crypts like wendtii etc, and dwarf sag have been able to survive...

I always question the light intensity... I really have no idea how much PAR the substrate gets... it's certainly brighter then other low techs I have done that could grow more exciting things...

Because there are only 2 rows of lights, they are over the riparium section so they only shine down on 2/3 of the tank back to front... what I do know is that the plants in the very centre of the tank always show deficiencies so the lighting can't be that bad..


----------



## hitmanx

I need to make a correction... the Parlour Palm (Chamaedorea elegans) on the right side is getting big, not the Cat Palm which is still growing slowly...

Btw, I can't seem to edit posts... weird


----------



## hitmanx

$21 in crypts didn't go very far... I'm gonna need more...





One pot of invitro dwarf sag won't be enough either... still so much empty space... at least I now have fertz again...


----------



## hitmanx

Filling up the space... still need more





Filling the substrate has been a challenge since flooding this tank...





Like duckweed, frogbit shows deficiency first... they are looking rough...





The damn aphids are not helping 





Taken out to clip old leaves and mulm covered roots...


----------



## hitmanx

That's better...


----------



## hitmanx

My god time flies..... haven't done much to this tank in a dogs age... today I decided to do a major hack....

 the vals were taking over and impeding flow... the riparium plants were shadowing everything... aphids all over some of the plants... pockets of BGA... BBA on the vals...    

Hack in progress...


----------



## hitmanx

I'm giving up on the *Syngonium* podophyllum... it's attracts too many aphids and grows fast... the Chamaedorea elegans is actually getting too large but it is flowering... the anthuriums are getting long and toppling over... I think it's time for some new ones... the sphaths continue to rock... the leaves are getting bigger then my head in width and the roots are becoming trouble under water... the flowers dump copious amounts of pollen into the water.. it's time to do some trimming and consolidating... 

And then there's the underwater section... dwarf sag is dwindling... crypts are doing well... vals as I said are going crazy but older leaves are getting BBA ext.. . I cut all the old leaves... thinned it by probably 50% or more and ripped out runners... 

All in I think removed about 2lbs+ of vegetation today from below and above... 

And then there's the fact I haven't cleaned the filter in the sump since nov 2019... or maybe it was 2018...


----------



## hitmanx

Yeah sorry this tank is disgusting... roots so over grown... filthy... I guess I am cleaning everything now...


----------



## hitmanx

Omg... it's more like a massacre then a hacking... 

The spath roots are unreal... these 3 containers are all mixed together... I have alot of unhappy fish watching their hiding places vanish... 

I am reminded that you can only really see 1/3 of the underwater tank normally as other 2/3 is behind the rocks and wood... so much space back there...


----------



## hitmanx

Absolute destruction.... a grocery bag full of roots and excess plant material....

I am sure I will be seeing a huge algae spike now... have to do more water changes... did about 20g so far today... the micron sock is doing overtime trying to grab all the debris... have to get all those spaths planted again... not sure if I am going to hang the planters in the tank again... probably will just keep them in the coast to coast overflow... easier to manage the roots... but of course the plants probably went gang busters because their roots were in the soil...

This was 2+ years of unimpeded growth...


----------



## hitmanx

I found a picture of how overgrown it was before the hack... at least back in January...


----------



## hitmanx

Finally got around to replanting the Spaths... it's looking a little barren... having issues with BGA at the moment... I need to clean that filter...

On a positive note, an Oto appeared in the tank... I thought they all died out well over a year ago...


----------



## hitmanx

I fleshed out the left side with some unknown leafy plant that I have experimented with in the past and seems to grow well with its feet wet even when neglected... I added a variegated red and white anthurium to the back and plunked down some Pilea 'aluminum' on a foam raft...

The Spaths on the right side are looking sad after replanting but I'm sure they will recover...


----------



## hitmanx

Ardisia humilis.... that's what the previously unknown plants is...

I have a specimen that has been growing well enough in several different neglected water setups over a year but this is the first time I've tried it in a riparium planter... if it works I may I add more...


----------



## hitmanx

In 2017 I said to myself:

"_but now the bean animal drain system has been negatively affected... the riparium planters are creating a bottle neck of water flow between the siphon and open standpipe sections... the planter is blocking the most of the flow as its very close to the eggcrate which I did not account for when designing the overflow... the water is higher around the open pipe and lower around the siphon... so no matter how much I adjust the siphon flow with the gate valve I always have too much water trickling down the open standpipe creating unwanted noise... the system still works, it's just noisy!"_

And now that I just filled the overflow with freshly planted Spaths in pots, guess what? I knew I had them hanging on the side of the overflow for a reason........


----------



## hitmanx

This is what happens when you go on extended vacations...





... and also maybe don't  clean the filter since Nov 2018 🤢

Left side has been "cleaned"... right side in all its BGA glory... it took 25 gallons of siphoning to remove most of it...


----------



## hitmanx

More vacation... more cyanobacteria... I need to address this problem...





I decided to fill out the main planting area with many more Wendtii crypts... green and tropica... the dwarf sag has dwindled as of late... I also decided to add back the H. Polysperma and cut back the Vals... I missed the bright green stems... 

As usual one of these days I will clean out the filter and sump...


----------



## hitmanx

Okay I know... chemicals are not the best way to solve problems without finding the root cause... I was just sick of my tank looking like blahblahblahblah... 

Enter CHEMICLEAN

Despite doing 25 gallon water chances just to suck up the rampant cyanobacteria outbreak on a regular basis it keeps coming back... like total destruction... every piece of wood, rock leaf and grain of substrate covered in stinking goo...  since nothing else has changed I would imagine it's the fact that I haven't cleaned the sump filter in years.. dissolved orangics are probably astronommical evidenced by the rampant mulm accumulation... the tank flora and fauna seem healthy, but something is out of whack...





This doesn't look like much but this is after extensive cleaning...





I left some on the leaves so I could compare after treatment...





This is where the cyanobacteria first started... above the water...





And 12hrs after CHEMICLEAN dosing:





Gone...





Gone...





Gone...

Now at least I can relax and figure out how to deal with the root cause without being disgusted by the state of the tank and walk away...


----------



## Karmicnull

Any collateral damage or is it shrimp / snail friendly?


----------



## hitmanx

It's supposed to be friendly to everything except cyanobacteria.... no casualties yet... we shall see...

I did add another airstone to the display tank as per instructions... I will keep a close eye on it... it suggests at least a 20% water change after 48hrs...


----------



## hitmanx

SHAME!





SHAME!

Things kind of got out of hand.... if you don't look at the tank when you walk by then nothing is wrong right?

Well 20 gallons worth of sucking out the filth, later she's looking alot better... 





Hair algae, some kind of brown thread algae and some spots of BGA had returned after 4 months of nothing.... at least the plants are doing well... the population of Trigonostigma espei has dwindled to 2 and I believe I have at least 6+ of each of the Celestichthys margaritatus and the Celestichthys erythromicron, but they are hard to count with the dense plants and hardscape... the Ancistrus seems happy... it's been along time since I had any shrimp in here... I should get some Amano...





Almost 5 years this tank has been going... and as always, I need to clean that filter 😇


----------



## heliophyte

I love your tank! Very inspiring stuff. (Although not at it's best right now )


----------



## rebel

Like you, I find Chemiclean really good. I don't bother with anything else if cyano hits.


----------



## hitmanx

1112 days later.....





... the filter has been cleaned again... it was filthy, but apparently Hamburg Mattenfilters using poret foam are supposed to be like that, I don't know...  it wasn't clogged but now the water is cloudy and I am going to need a clean up of the display tank..  lots of goo sent up top 

Only one Celestichthys erythromicron was down in the sump this time, along with the usual Celestichthys choprae sump dwellers, which seem to be very healthy...


----------



## hitmanx

"Twinkle" the Ancistrus sp. has come out to inspect the filthy crypts...


----------



## hitmanx

Finally...





I found a source of Calathea rufibarba... at Home Depot of all places... I've been looking for this plant ever since Alistair used it on the Chocolate Puddle...





Hopefully it fills out the right corner...


----------



## hitmanx

Everything about this tank has been a roller coaster... from the flora and fauna additions to their eventual demise, the fact that some times I am obsessed with it and other times I completely ignore it, to ebb and flow of different algae or deficiency problems...

I have smaller nano tanks that I do far less work on and they just exist with no problems.... I'm really not sure what makes this tank so inconsistent...

I flooded this tank 1862 days ago and the only thing that has stayed the same is the ficus pumila chugging along on the right stump...

I just went over and reread this journal starting around 2018 and there have been so many changes... most I have forgotten about... but I wanted to thank everyone that has contributed to the discussion and encouraged me to continue 😍


----------



## hitmanx

I wanted to do a species spotlight on the Ardisia humilus I tried awhile back... it grew fantastically, but is prone to aphids and back then I had an aphid infestation... since then I removed the Syngoniums and frogbit and placed the Ardisia "temporarily" in a bowl with water in an basement bathroom with no window and mostly darkness... well I forgot about it for a long time... months... and it kept growing... I haven't seen an aphid in ages so I've placed it back in the riparium and it's growing well. 😎





It's a mighty fine riparium plant and I will be using it in further tank builds. It's also apparently bomb proof, unless of course you have aphids 🤮

Also I wanted show what the flowers look like on the Chamaedorea elegans that's growing massive in the back...





I think might try adding in some Syngoniums again... the bright colour is appealing and I can just hope that aphids don't come back... I'm pretty sure they came in with some plant I added years ago...


----------



## heliophyte

Despite the algae I still think this is an amazing tank and hugely inspirational to me!


----------



## Wookii

This is an awesome tank. Do all the emersed plants have their roots underwater? Do you have a master list of the plants you currently have emersed as I could do with some ideas for my next tank? The little little ivy type plant on the bottom right look great in particular!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> The little little ivy type plant on the bottom right look great in particular!


That one is the  <"_Ficus pumila_"> that @hitmanx mentions _. _It gets a few mentions in <"riparium/paludarium threads">, like this one by @Iain Sutherland.





cheers Darrel


----------



## hitmanx

*Flora (Feb 2022)

Bellow:*

Hygrophila polysperma
Hygrophila angustifolia
Heteranthera Zosterifolia
Sagittaria subulata
Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'
Cryptocoryne walkeri ‘lutea’
Cryptocoryne parva
Cryptocoryne wendtii (green, brown, tropica)

*Above:*

Spathiphyllum 'Petite'
Calathea lancifolia
Calathea rufibarba
Chamaedorea cataractarum
Chamaedorea elegans
Ficus pumila
Anthurium sp.
Ardisia sp.


----------



## shangman

Ahhh, you're writing about aphids, my no.1 enemy!! What do you attack yours with? Mine have been decimating my emergent plants and it's VERY ANNOYING, they seem hard to kill too but I'm starting to think I need to go on a proper offensive.


----------



## hitmanx

Aphids are like a zombie apocalypse.... nuke everything... I collected them daily and fed them to the fish, but that novelty wore off quickly...

I ended up taking out and destroying any plants they like to munch on, which left only the Spathiphyllum, Calatheas, Ficus pumila and Anthuriums... they loved the Syngoniums, Ardisia, frogbit and any aquatic plants that grew emersed... they even like the new growth on the fern but there was a jumping spider living on that...

My suggestion is to drown all plants in water for 24hrs before bringing them anywhere near your tank...


----------



## Hufsa

Do you guys know about the CO2 method? Apparently you just seal em up in there with the plants and then gas the everliving daylights out of the sealed area with a CO2 system. Is apparently very effective at killing the aphids and wont harm the plants


----------



## hitmanx

Gas chambers would be hard to do with such big ripariums.... maybe taking them out of the tank into a separate chamber is doable...

I do regret destroying the Syngoniums... but I even flooded them in a water bucket for 48hrs and they still came back... eggs maybe?


----------



## shangman

hitmanx said:


> Aphids are like a zombie apocalypse.... nuke everything... I collected them daily and fed them to the fish, but that novelty wore off quickly...
> 
> I ended up taking out and destroying any plants they like to munch on, which left only the Spathiphyllum, Calatheas, Ficus pumila and Anthuriums... they loved the Syngoniums, Ardisia, frogbit and any aquatic plants that grew emersed... they even like the new growth on the fern but there was a jumping spider living on that...
> 
> My suggestion is to drown all plants in water for 24hrs before bringing them anywhere near your tank...


I think you are right, I'll do a proper clean and dipping of everything for 2 days. Most of my plants are emergents that grow out from the tank and it looks amazing when they're healthy, and then the vampires appear and suck it all dry in days 😤 they're quite fragile plants annoyingly, with lots of underbits for the aphids to hide in. 



hitmanx said:


> I do regret destroying the Syngoniums... but I even flooded them in a water bucket for 48hrs and they still came back... eggs maybe?


Probably eggs, maybe a 1-2 dip a week apart. Or dip with SB-invigorator, maybe that would help. 



Hufsa said:


> Do you guys know about the CO2 method? Apparently you just seal em up in there with the plants and then gas the everliving daylights out of the sealed area with a CO2 system. Is apparently very effective at killing the aphids and wont harm the plants


This is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I could seal the above bit and not have the co2 escape. 🤔


----------



## Wookii

I’m no terrestrial plant keeper, and this might not be practical indoors, but would an application of natural predators work?






						Natural Predators (protect your garden) Pomona Fruits
					

Natural Predators (protect your garden) Pomona Fruits - protect your plants from garden pests without using chemicals, must be applied immediately



					www.pomonafruits.co.uk


----------



## hitmanx

I actually caught some ladybugs and released them on the plants... every one of them flew away to die somewhere 🐞


----------



## Wookii

hitmanx said:


> I actually caught some ladybugs and released them on the plants... every one of them flew away to die somewhere 🐞



It’s the larvae you need not the adults. You should be able to collect them yourself in the Spring if you search hard enough, and don’t want to buy them - I often seen them on brambles and the like out walking:





They do pupate, so you could wait for that stage before collecting them up and putting them outside somehow.

I’ve not done it myself as I say, but it would be an interesting approach and could deal with the problem.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> this might not be practical indoors,


I get <"_Aphidius spp._"> parasitise the <"aphids on the house plants"> and in the glasshouse, but aphid (and White-fly) numbers usually build up in the winter before <"Lotka-Volterra"> dynamics  kick in as the weather warms up. Coriander (_Coriandrum sativum_) is the plant that always has aphids in our house.

Some "outside time" in the warmer weather helps, but a lot more difficult for riparium set-ups.

cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> It’s the larvae you need not the adults. You should be able to collect them yourself in the Spring


Harlequin Ladybird (_Harmonia axyridis_) larvae, like that one, should be easy to find in the spring and are voracious predators.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Maf 2500

dw1305 said:


> Harlequin Ladybird (_Harmonia axyridis_) larvae


An invasive Asian species, but I guess too late to do anything about it now as is already so well established here (and worldwide).


----------



## hitmanx

I noticed that there has been alot of discussion about lean dosing and substrate fertilization lately... I'm trying to think back if there was any positive or negative effects when I used Osmocote tabs a few times in this tank... I really don't know... if there was it's was very slow...

I specifically chose safe-t-sorb and aquasoil Malaya substrate because of its cation exchange capacity, but I don't really know how that has panned out for nutrient availability... the question is have the calcium and magnesium in the hard water I started with "filled" it up or maybe the emersed plants have soaked up any excess nutrients before it could even get to the soil?

Either way the dwarf sag is looking as sad as it did back in early 2019 before I used osmocote tabs the last time... I'm pretty sure it helped with those during 2019...

Edit: I just checked back to Sep 2019 and I said that I was going to add Osmocote tabs more regularly.... I in fact did not 🤪

I believe the phrase Consistency Deficiency is apt....


----------



## hitmanx

These are some of the saddest looking dwarf sag ever... out in the brightest spot, they are no larger then 1-2cm and in a great state of disrepair...






The ones over in the less intensely lit area are doing better, but still not the greatest and still not very large...


----------



## Wookii

I don’t think you need to risk adding the Osmocote to the substrate - they can risk releasing too much ammonia into the water column. 

What water column fertiliser are you using?


----------



## castle

I guess, and this is a guess - something isn’t quite in balance. S.Sag is probably the easiest plant I’ve ever kept in an aquarium, in fact I found a jar outside which S.sag has lived in for years, in almost 0c through a couple of winters. 

Could the emergent plants be taking any and all goodness from the water column? 
Is the substrate exhausted? 

I love this tank btw, inspirational for me.

_Dodgy looking forgotten sag attached.


_


----------



## hitmanx

Wookii said:


> I don’t think you need to risk adding the Osmocote to the substrate - they can risk releasing too much ammonia into the water column.
> 
> What water column fertiliser are you using?



I do not remember any adverse effects the last couple times I added the osmocote tabs as far as the water column goes and leaching... I would imagine anything like that would be sucked up pretty quick by the emersed plants or absorbed by the substrate... I am using Thrive by NilocG Aquatics, and seachem equilibrium 3 times per week



castle said:


> I guess, and this is a guess - something isn’t quite in balance. S.Sag is probably the easiest plant I’ve ever kept in an aquarium, in fact I found a jar outside which S.sag has lived in for years, in almost 0c through a couple of winters.
> 
> Could the emergent plants be taking any and all goodness from the water column?
> Is the substrate exhausted?
> 
> I love this tank btw, inspirational for me.
> 
> _Dodgy looking forgotten sag attached.
> View attachment 182248_


 I have dwarf sag growing in other tanks and it behaves differently with long leaves... nothing like these stunted examples...  Yes I would imagine that the emergent plants are soaking every available nutrient up and by this point I would imagine that the substrate is completely exhausted unless I start adding osmocote tabs...


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## hitmanx

Just some under water action...





The Calathea rufibarba is definitely doing well...





The Ardisia is definitely rebounding from its dark slumber...





All seems well while I micro manage the tank as usual in February... we shall see how it looks in summer when I ignore it 😉


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## 19Lee81

hitmanx said:


> Just some under water action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Calathea rufibarba is definitely doing well...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ardisia is definitely rebounding from its dark slumber...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All seems well while I micro manage the tank as usual in February... we shall see how it looks in summer when I ignore it



What an amazing setup this is!!!.. 
Hats off to you!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PARAGUAY

Wookii said:


> It’s the larvae you need not the adults. You should be able to collect them yourself in the Spring if you search hard enough, and don’t want to buy them - I often seen them on brambles and the like out walking:
> 
> View attachment 182241
> 
> They do pupate, so you could wait for that stage before collecting them up and putting them outside somehow.
> 
> I’ve not done it myself as I say, but it would be an interesting approach and could deal with the problem.


Sure a lot see these and think pest not beneficial Seeing aphids on the sweet peas every year l use spray washing up liquid  rather than chemicals so before l realized what friend to the garden they are not too much damage done . Apparantly they are more voracious at eating aphids than adult ladybirds.


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## Ajm200

mort said:


> I must admit as much as I love the maidenhair fern I had in my old tank, I don't miss it since I took it out. The speed of growth just dominated the emerse growth and it suffered from random die off every so often that I think has been discussed on here before. It had a nice leaf structure and I'm still trying to replace it with something better so eager to see what you add as a replacement. I must admit I like the openess of your tank now it's gone and think something shorter on the wood will be an improvement.


Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I’m interested in how you got the maidenhair fern to grow emersed on your tank.  I’ve had three attempts and the leaves have gone crispy and did each time


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## mort

Ajm200 said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I’m interested in how you got the maidenhair fern to grow emersed on your tank.  I’ve had three attempts and the leaves have gone crispy and did each time



It's a nice thread to resurrect. 

I just plonked the fern in the tank so that the only part in the water were the roots. It's a long time since I have done it but I don't remember any significant die off during the transition but ferns definitely can react badly and lose their leaves (they often grow back strongly). If the crown gets wet it will rot and might be why they have died for you. I would just wash the soil of the plant, make sure the crown is above the waters surface and only allow the roots to enter the water.
The one thing I have found with this species is that they are prone to drying up and losing lots of foliage if the humidity changes, they really don't like low humidity which is why they are perfect bathroom plants.

Perhaps @hitmanx can add more info and hopefully provide an update at the same time.


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## zozo

In theory, it's tridirectional 

light (intensity)
fertilization
humidity​
In practicality, we need to find the perfect equilibrium in this combination... The difficulty is to find this perfect balance. And giving advice on where and how to find it is even more difficult since no 2 situations are the same and since we have no numbers to share it's hard if not impossible to compare.


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## hitmanx

Random update picture as it sits most of the time in ambient light (when the light timer isnt on), overgrown and neglected...


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## MichaelJ

hitmanx said:


> overgrown and neglected...


I like it. Not looking overgrown to me ... neglected? well, perhaps a bit, but nothing  wet hands for an hour or so can't fix   

Always wanted a really shallow tank just never got around to it. And now I wouldn't know where to put it.

Cheers,
Michael


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## hitmanx

MichaelJ said:


> I like it. Not looking overgrown to me ... neglected? well, perhaps a bit, but nothing  wet hands for an hour or so can't fix



I'm thinking of working on it tonight... cleanup... trim... pictures... no idea what kind of fauna I still have in there now beiades the bristlenose... I've just been topping off water and feeding every once in awhile... maybe a few fert squirts added since the spring... generally a very low maintenance tank ♻️


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## hitmanx

Oh man... it's dirtier than I thought... lots of mulm... thread algae is a problem... I hate it!

Spath roots are going crazy again, clogging up the overflow area and growing into the substrate... 

Cool thing is an Otocinclus showed up... haven't seen any of those in years... still a bunch of cpds and emerald danios and a few remaining glowlight danios.... couldn't find any Amanos I added last winter...

I was thinking of adding some cherry barbs, as I can't find a source of the more appropriate rosy barbs... anyone have experience with these?

It's snowing mulm...


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## hitmanx

Still more work to be done...


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## mort

I think cherry barbs would be perfect. They are small and peaceful enough to not intimidate your other fish and colourful enough to be seen from a distance. They are also slower, more methodical, swimmers than rosy barbs which can be quite boisterous. Rosy barbs also get to a decent size and would intimidate your other fish. 
Checkered barbs are a nice, more subtle, common barb that may work but I'm a little surprised you don't have easy access to rosy barbs as they are a lfs staple here.


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## hitmanx

mort said:


> I think cherry barbs would be perfect. .


I think I will try them and hope for no jumpers... it always seems that when I get to a certain number of fish in this tank, some decide to jump...


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