# My 60ltr tank



## Mark Allen (20 Aug 2016)

I bought a Superfish 60ltr tank with LED lighting at the beggining of July.

For soil I used Caribsea Eco Complete plant substrate, I added some rocks and a wooden bonsai tree.
For plants I wanted a grass and used Elocharis sp. mini tissure cultre and on the tree I tied Ludwigia mini red tissue culture. In the tank I planned to have a simaese fighter and some other little shoaling fish/shrimp.
I added a CO2 system and use TNC complete and Sachem flourish, lights on 08:00 to 20:00. Tank is at 24'C
This is what it started out like.





The plants did great to start with and sure the Ludwigia was pearling. But then, it died.





I talked to some people on a forum and decided it was because the roots were in the water and not in the soil it died. So I put some new in the soil, as I wanted some red plant. That also died. So something else is going on.

I then decided to start adding some Red Cherry Shrimp. I thought the betta wouldnt go down low and try to eat them, but he did. So I had to move him to my other tank. So I went and bought some minnows to go in there with the shrimp. Then the shrimp started to die, their back split and I could see white. I checked all my pH, KH, GH etc.... and everything was ok. I added some of the Tantora white stone, but they continued to die, all in the same way. Eventually all of them were dead. So I cannot put a finger on that. Some people say CO2 is bad, some say it isnt, so I cant be 100% sure on if it was that?

Back to the tank, the grass has taken a hit









Theres still some healthy green growth and its spreading, but something must be wrong.

Then theres the diatoms, being a new tank.
Little bubbles are CO2 and my drop tester is blue as I have been messing around with the CO2 whilst the guppies were poorly (mentioned below)



 
I also added a few guppies now all the RCS have gone, but for some reason I think some of them caught Columnaris and have passed on.

Basically this has been the worst tank I have ever attempted. I've never had so much death and algae problems.

Any help or answering death of plants/shrimp would be much appreciated. I think I've covered most things, but im sure you will have more questions to ask me.


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## Manisha (20 Aug 2016)

Hi sorry your having so much trouble with your tank  I've found ukaps really helpful, it's a great resource for setting up a planted tank! 

Initially when you first add plants it can take time to establish in a tank so it can be helpful to run your light for a shorter period (6 hours perhaps) and you can increase this in a few weeks. 

Having more plants to begin with is also beneficial as it tends to be more stable overall which is useful when your new to running a planted tank & using fast growing stem plants (hygrophila difformis, Ceratopteris thalictroides) are useful as they use nutrients quickly before algae can! Adding a floating plant is good too!

 I'm a non co2 low techy & have avoided ludwigia mini red as it's not suitable for my tank's & looks nice as a stem plant grown planted in the substrate & have seen it planted onto hardscape but maybe hard if your new to planted tanks. There are easier alternatives like attaching moss or smaller varieties of anubias to wood to achieve a 'tree' effect.

I'm sorry about you losing your shrimp & fish - I'd be inclined to wait until you have healthy plant growth before adding anymore & this also gives you flexibility with your co2, good luck!


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## Mark Allen (20 Aug 2016)

Royal mail literally just delivered some plants for this tank.
I was going with moss, but when I saw this little red plant, I thought it would look much nicer, turns out I was wrong, lol. 

Yes I'm waiting 32 days before adding fish as they recommend this with a Coloumnaris outbreak. I'm also not going to try shrimp again, unless I definitely know what went wrong.


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## Manisha (20 Aug 2016)

Don't blame you, it sounded like a horrendous experience with your shrimp   perhaps if you start a thread in the 'inverts' section of ukaps you might yield a better response from more experienced folk? I've only kept Amano shrimp which are a fairly hardy species compared to cherries.


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## Mark Allen (20 Aug 2016)

Yea, I'll pop a thread in their too. Just wanted to mention here incase it shed any light on other issues.

I do have 1 really tough shrimp. I saw him this morning whilst putting the plants in.


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## Nelson (20 Aug 2016)

I always have trouble with tissue culture plants.They just melt like yours.I've given up on them and get potted plants now.
The Eleocharis could just be emersed growth dying.
A lot of tanks get diatoms when cycling/just cycled.
As Manisha said,reduce your lighting period to 6 hours for now.You could also get some Otocinclus.
I also lost all my cherry shrimp last year.Sounds like the same problem as yours.They had a problem molting and died.
Never found the cause,though possibly bacterial.


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## Mark Allen (20 Aug 2016)

Lights reduced to 6 hours. 

I went tissue culture to avoid snails, so I hope the new ones work too!

Water change due tomorrow, so Ill rub off some of the diatoms and suck out as much as I can.


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## MrHidley (21 Aug 2016)

How often are you doing water changes? Is your filter cycled? I've never used eco complete so i'm not sure, but most complete substrates release ammonia for 3-6weeks after first filling the tank.


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## Mark Allen (21 Aug 2016)

Water changes once a week. I did a 50% this morning after cleaning most of the diatoms off first, so I could suck it all out.

I saw the cycle, levels rise and drop to zero.


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## MrHidley (21 Aug 2016)

How long did it take for the tank to cycle? Most kits are pretty inaccurate. My thoughts are that ammonia or nitrite is probably killed off your shrimp. Most people do 50% water changes every day for the first 2-3 weeks of the cycle.


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## Mark Allen (21 Aug 2016)

I did big water changes daily, probably 30% till the nitrite and ammonia came down, then onto weekly.


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## Mark Allen (24 Aug 2016)

Diatoms seem to be coming under control

Some of the tissue culture plants are not looking too healthy. Could be a low light issue?


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## Doubu (24 Aug 2016)

Very sad to hear and see =[. I agree with what others have said and you may want to reduce your light period along with intensity.

It seems that most of your plants are* root feeders - this means that they need to root first before they start growing. Actually, you only have DHG Mini with nothing else. When you have too much light, especially intense light - you are going to give yourself grief because there will be nutrients available in the water column with not enough plants to use it. My hypothesis for mass melting is that the plants want to grow but are not fit to do so (due to lack of roots that have successfully latched onto the substrate to properly suck up nutrients and use the light energy) - which is why there is a lot of die off. This is why it is probably a good idea to start the light off not so strong, with a shorter period - providing enough light for the plants to grow while not allowing enough for algae to form. Once it starts rooting, you can slowly increase the intensity. From my experience, you don't need much light to grow DHG Mini anyway, just light with the correct spectrum. I have a chihiros light in my other tank on the 3rd lowest setting and my DHG + Monte Carlo are both carpeting and growing very well. You may also want to trim off the dead leaves a bit as a way to jumpstart the rooting process.


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## MrHidley (24 Aug 2016)

Mark Allen said:


> Diatoms seem to be coming under control
> 
> Some of the tissue culture plants are not looking too healthy. Could be a low light issue?



How powerful is the light? Tissue culture plants sometimes lose their leaves as the adapt from being emerged to submerged, don't panic yet. You need to be calm and let the tank balance, if you keep adjusting your lights and messing around with Co2 levels you're more likely to throw everything out of balance. Remove any dead or dying leaves and make sure to keep on top of it. The first few weeks of a planted tank are the hardest. To give you some hope, here is a comparison of my monte carlo carpet that almost completely melted away.


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## Mark Allen (24 Aug 2016)

OK, I'll drop the lights 50% and leave CO2 as is, so I don't change too many things.
Lights already reduced to 6 hours.

That's some impressive growth!


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## alto (25 Aug 2016)

Mark Allen said:


> big water changes daily, probably 30%


 that's really a conservative or small water change, most plant tanks are in the 50% - 80%  changes (ie big would be the 80%)

I've used EC quite a lot - it's a very clean substrate
BUT it's not at all nutrient rich compared to ADA or Tropica etc soils 

IME  _Elocharis sp. mini tissure cultre_ prefers the aquarium soils
 - so persevere & baby it 




Mark Allen said:


> I also added a few guppies now all the RCS have gone, but for some reason I think some of them caught Columnaris and have passed on.


maybe ... at any rate, very unlikely to have anything to do with your tank or husbandry
Fungus etc diseases are a problem with modern (ie inbred guppy lines commonly available) guppies - pay attention to shop & stock ... look for a shop that really know guppies
it's unlikely that your tank was a disease source 

As others mention, begin with a 5-6 h photoperiod


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## alto (25 Aug 2016)

note some Bettas are dedicated shrimp hunters, others never seem to notice


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## Mark Allen (25 Aug 2016)

Reduce light intensity by 50%

This plant is getting worse pretty fast


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## kadoxu (25 Aug 2016)

I feel your pain... the exact same thing happened to my plants a few months ago, on my first ever planted tank... Some completely melted and some started rotting from the roots up. 

I wish I could help you, but unfortunately I wasn't able to keep them alive. I'm starting again with high hopes though...

Good luck!


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## Mark Allen (25 Aug 2016)

Bah, just noticed my Ludwigia is melting. Was OK when I came in from work!


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## Doubu (25 Aug 2016)

Mark Allen said:


> Reduce light intensity by 50%
> 
> This plant is getting worse pretty fast
> 
> View attachment 89255



If it makes you feel any better, my rotala bonsai from tropica 1-2 grow almost all died, I only had like 10% of it left =/. Everything else failed to root... From your picture, it looks like it's dying from the bottom up and just keeps spreading. I would try to trim off the dead parts and replant the green parts if you want to try and salvage what you have. 

The bonsai you have behind it looks like it's rooted though!


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## Mark Allen (25 Aug 2016)

I'll keep persevering lol


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## AquaPlantDemon (26 Aug 2016)

Keep those CO2 levels up and constant, keep removing algae. Don't rest until you are sure that your CO2 concentration is where it needs to be. 

Maybe ease back on the light a little


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## Mark Allen (26 Aug 2016)

Pulled the plant out today, but it had great roots. Not sure what it didn't like.
Ludwigia had to come out too. Wish I put that in my other tank, just to see if it would grow in there.


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## Doubu (27 Aug 2016)

Mark Allen said:


> Pulled the plant out today, but it had great roots. Not sure what it didn't like.
> Ludwigia had to come out too. Wish I put that in my other tank, just to see if it would grow in there.



If it has great roots it would've rebounded eventually! If you see that next time I would recommend that you stop and just let it be =D.


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## Mark Allen (27 Aug 2016)

So leave the roots under the soil and it should regrow?


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## HiNtZ (4 Sep 2016)

I wouldn't believe what you heard about the Ludwigia dying because it wasn't in the soil. I tried to grow some super mini red on my tree and it kept dying and getting attacked by algae. I eventually got it right - with a lot of time.  I broke that tank down eventually and  started the same idea again, this time with rotala rotundifolia.

It's been about two months of constant daily trimming, but now I'm seeing some really small growth as opposed to huge leaves. The root system you can see is fine... it puts new roots out every few days as the fish eat the others and they decay. It's effectively underwater hydroponics. The only requirement is to stay on top of ferts religiously as there's no substrate to back it up if you run low. Potassium shows very quickly in the rotala. It's a great indicator - way before my hygrophila notices.

I hacked this back yesterday, give it 2-3 days and it'll explode again. All you need is time and a good tank balance.


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## Mark Allen (6 Sep 2016)

Some of the tissue culture plants are still alive and some even look like they are slowly starting to grow. One siad 30cm in 30days, which is never going to happen, lol. Perhaps they like an established tank rather than a few months old one?


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## Mark Allen (12 Sep 2016)

Tissue culture plants never took off, so I added some bigger plants. Couple of otto's to munch up the diatoms. Looking better now, but not how I intended it to be, lol.


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## Manisha (12 Sep 2016)

A really big change  ☺ It will hopefully be easier to get the balance right with a bigger plant mass! I've got cabomba caroliniana in my tank's too, it's great!


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## Manisha (26 Sep 2016)

Hi Mark
How'd the new plants go?


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## Mark Allen (26 Sep 2016)

Just taken a photo on my phone, will upload later.

It's not perfect, but thy are growing nicely.


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## Mark Allen (26 Sep 2016)

Photo below


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## Manisha (27 Sep 2016)

Looking good  So different from your first picture! Like your guppys!


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## Mark Allen (27 Sep 2016)

Yes, its a very different tank. Everything from plants to fish seem to be a lot happier. I do have one guppy that just hides in the corner, I thought he was going to die, but that was weeks ago. He just seems like an inactive fish, still eats food which is good.


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## HiNtZ (28 Sep 2016)

Looking good!


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## Mark Allen (17 Nov 2016)

Been a while, plants don't seem to really be growing that well. I thought with CO2 etc... they might be growing faster and not dying. Clearly something is not right. Im doing the same as my other tank, just in ratio's for 60ltrs instead of 180ltrs.

Perhaps its the light strength? my juwel 180 has T5's and reflectors, where as the superfish 60 just has a few LED's, I think 10W, but some are blue and some are white. Should I put some extra lighting in there?

This plant for example has hardly grown at all



 

Some plants just melt



 

This crypt is just about doing ok


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## HiNtZ (18 Nov 2016)

EDIT: Hadn't realised I already replied to this one. Didn't get a notification....

What are you dosing? I don't think light was your issue at all - it has to be nutes. Especially since you said you tried CO2 (although your DC looks a bit turquoise)

Here's a not so recent update pic from the one I posted above. No problems here at all as you can see - grows like crazy, is about 5 inches from the light, but like I said, CO2 is spot on and dosing is religiously.


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## Mark Allen (18 Nov 2016)

I dose TNC complete, it says one dose a week, but I spread that out (correct amount per ltr/ml). So I do a 50% water change, dose half, then mid week, dose the other half.
I also use Seachem Flurish and carry out the same dosing technique as above.

As for the CO2, maybe I need to get that on sooner. Lights come on at 15:00hrs and the CO2 a couple of hours before. by approx 17:00 its very light green and I turn it off a couple of hours before the lights go out.

Shall I carry out a better nutes dosing programme, use something different? Its just odd I do the same nutes and technique in the other tank and plants reach the surface of the water from half way down. One difference if I have different soil in that tank though. Could that be whats causing it?


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## Manisha (22 Nov 2016)

Hi Mark, I use tnc complete too & think your dose may be a bit light. Another member recommended to dose the recommended dose three times per week on my high light nano with liquid co2. For my big low tech, (240l) should be 24ml, three times per week - but because it's low tech I use about a half dose. The three times I understood is equivalent to ei levels so if your using co2 I'd be inclined to try that.
It is odd how you your big tank is doing fine with equivalent levels. It could be flow is more evenly distributed in your larger tank or perhaps you have a better balance in terms of slow/fast growing plants?


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## Mark Allen (22 Nov 2016)

Ok, will up it to three times. I've upped the CO2 and made sure its green as the lights are on, not a few hours after. Actually have some real crazy pearling on some of the plants now.

My big tank is well over a year old, so perhaps things are just more settled? Though I have tweaked the CO2 in that as well, as I noticed it wasn't quite green enough on the drop checker and in the last week, some stem plants have rocketed to the surface. Seems it wasn't quite as good as I thought.


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## Mark Allen (9 Dec 2016)

Could probably do with a bit more dense planting at the back, but it seems to be coming along ok. I think I have green beard algae. Plants are pearling loads, just the hydrocotyle tripartita doesn't seem to be growing that fast and I thought it was a fast grower? I think it might be lacking light?


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