# Ammonia and Nitrite problems



## PDSimon (10 Jun 2010)

Hello, 

I could really do with some of your expertise...My fishless cycle was coming to an end, 5ppm of ammonia ---> nitrate in 12 hours, so I decided to plant and get the fish the next day.

However, the day after I planted, my ammonia was 0.5 and nitrite was 0.25...which is confusing...as it was cycling ammonia very well and nitrite too... So unfortunately, I decided not to get any fish.

I've also performed some waterchanges and the ammonia was the same as the previous test which leads me to believe something is producing ammonia...

I've trimmed all the plants and removed any dying leaves so i'm unsure. I have tropica plant substrate but i've read from various sources this doesn't raise ammonia.

One cause might be that I've added bogwood, which has lowered my soft water to 6pH. Now I believe 6.4pH or less stalls/slows the bacteria down that cycle the water, but why would the ammonia increase? if it is somehow the bogwood, I have microsorum pteropus and anubias nana attached to them so how can I store them? (I only have one tank...)

Any help is much appreciated, thanks for your time.


----------



## baron von bubba (10 Jun 2010)

could it be that the test is not giving you accurate results?

if there is anything leaching ammonia will the bacteria colony multiply very quickly to deal with extra small amounts?
when you first put the fish in the ammonia levels will rise at some point chances of you measuring this at the correct time will be slim tho.

i think the advise you will mainly get here is dont get too wrapped up with test kits.....
just work at getting healthy plants, after that the rest is easy. (ish).

if you are worried just put some fast growing stems to help with any small peaks of ammonia in the initial stages.

the stalling cycle thing is at a much lower ph then that, around 5ph i thought, may be wrong tho....


----------



## PDSimon (10 Jun 2010)

I'm using an API test kit, which is known to be reliable and I tested my tap water which is 0ppm so there is definately a connection between planting+adding substrate+bogwood that has caused this...

The bacterial colony should multiply its just it still doesn't solve the problem if whats leaching it...The problem is the plants wont be all that healthy because the longer I leave it without adding fish, the longer I have to artificially add ammonia isn't good for the plants and will help algae growth.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## baron von bubba (11 Jun 2010)

so you are still adding ammonia???? maybe thats why its showing on a test kit?

i think its probably good for the plants rather than bad, some ppl add a form of it as a fert.
but is one trigger for algae in a tank. so why add it?
plant heavily add fish early.


----------



## PDSimon (11 Jun 2010)

There are no fish, if I didn't add ammonia the bacteria would die... so i'm feeding them 5ppm. Normally this would be gone in 12 hours because the bacteria will have converted them into nitrates, but it isn't or something else is leaching ammonia, hence the confusion...


----------



## dw1305 (11 Jun 2010)

Hi all,
I'd stop adding any ammonia (or anything else) and leave the tank for a week or so. I wouldn't get too hung up on the bacterial filtration from the filter or the pH, in a planted tank with actively growing plants a lot of the biological filtration is by the plants and their associated micro-organisms. You have all the nitrogen cycle bacteria present in the filter, and the numbers of these will react flexibly both up and down dependent upon the input of N. Plants preferentially take up both ammonia and nitrite before nitrate, so active plant growth is your aim.

The week will allow the tank to stabilise and at the end of that week if you have healthy plant growth, I'd add the fish. 

I've never cycled my tanks as such, I just leave them for 6 weeks or so until I have a large plant mass and then add the fish. Where people have problems with biological filtration it is almost always a problem with either the level of oxygenation of the water or a toxic substance in the tank water. Planted tank keepers tend to understand more about the science of water quality, but I get lot of emails (from other forums) which start something like 





> my fish look ill/sick/dead "


 and after a few more questions you get back something along the lines of 





> my tank was looking a bit yucky so I boiled my bog wood/sand/filter and then left it soak in bleach until it was really clean"


What is also really interesting is that the correspondents nearly always express surprise or total disbelief when you tell them they've poisoned their fish.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Dave Spencer (11 Jun 2010)

Hi Simon.

I think I recognise your name from TFF. You will need to change your mind set from the TFF way a little, if you want a truly successful planted tank. There is a sticky in the planted section of TFF, outlining why it isn`t necessary to cycle a planted tank.

Try as I have on TFF, I can`t seem to get people that want to cycle a tank with ammonia to do it without plants, and do it in the dark. Stick with the advice that you will get from UKAPS for now.  

Dave.


----------



## PDSimon (11 Jun 2010)

Hi yeah I post on TFF, I've spent a long time developing a robust colony of bacteria in the filter, to keep fish is the priority and the plants second, the tank is low tech with no gas c02, less than 1.5wpg lighting...

The only reason I posted on here was to see if I was missing something causing ammonia such as the tropica substrate...

I'd have done a silent cycle but I simply couldn't afford c02 or more lighting etc...

I have cycled the majority of my cycle (2 months!) without plants as I didn't want algae or high ammonia levels to poison the plants.

thanks for the help guys

I think i'm going to remove the bogwood and put it in a big bucket, hopefully the 2 java ferns and the anubias will be ok for a few days whilst I sort that out, any tips on helping those whilst they are out of the tank are much appreciated

once again thank you for the replies


----------

