# Ed's Rio 180



## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2008)

Well as I picked up my tank today I thought I'd start my journal of it's development off.
Nothing much will be happening until the substrate arrives from Richard and the plants from Aquaspot world, but the hardware's almost all done!

I have to start here by saying how brilliant Maidenhead aquatics at Derby were for getting me the tank at the discounted price and then having it at their store within the week!

Anyway went to pick it up today.  Got it back and assembled the cabinet - no photos of this as if you've put IKEA furniture together you'll know how it goes!

Then the first problem.  I had measured VERY carefully to check this would go into the alcove by the fire place.  the gap was 101cm and the tank is just under 101cm.  Perfect fit, I thought.

However it seems that the gap was 101cm AT THE BACK!!!!  At the front it was just under 101cm - about 1mm too small!!!  Fortunately one of the walls is lined in cork (don't ask) so that was easy to shave some off to get a good fit.  This took much doing and offering the stand up then shaving some off etc., but then the stand went in.  Great, I thought, job done!  But no...

The tank's trim acutally sticks out a little further!  More trimming...

Anyway after an hour or so of very carefull slight trimming I have a tank that looks like it was made for the gap!!!  Here are the pictures.






The two sides with the close fits!








Now I'm just waiting for Aquasoil and everything else...

Oh, and surprisingly my tank arrived with the filter already stuck in!  It was all sealed up and everything, but already positioned.  Is this true on all new Juwels?


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## Themuleous (4 Jan 2008)

Yeah the rio tanks all have a jumbo internal filter pre-installed, you can easily remove if it necessary if you later want to switch to an external later on.

I see its got T5's in it, much better than T8's 

Sam


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## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Yeah the rio tanks all have a jumbo internal filter pre-installed, you can easily remove if it necessary if you later want to switch to an external later on.
> 
> I see its got T5's in it, much better than T8's
> 
> Sam



Yeah it's got the High-lites and came with Day and Nature bulbs so pretty happy with that!  Definitely keeping the filter, but will be putting sintered glass media in the bottom section to improve the biological performance and I can put some mature media in from my Ehiem.


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## daniel19831123 (4 Jan 2008)

Nice. Any idea what's going into the tank at the moment?


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## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2008)

Oh yeah.  I'm rather Left-brained with things like this and already have apretty detailed plan.
Here it is from another thread on here:



> The decor plan for it at the moment is based on a habitat described in a West African cichlid book, where there are apparently islands of tree roots and Crinum in an other wise sandy stream. It's a part of the range of Pelvicachromis taeniatus and I'll have a group of the 'Bipindi' location so this will be their hone, probably with my big shoal of cardinals (Although I'm very tempted to stay West African and get 40+ Lampeye killies).
> 
> It will have Amazonia substrate 'island' held back by a sweeping ribbon of rounded river cobbles, with a sand foreground that will have a large patch of E.tennellus and a patch of Glosso. The cobbles will sweep from the back of the tank, part way along, towards the front, then curve around to side of the tank in a sweeping curve. At the side of the tank there will be a 'pile' of cobbles that will hide one cave for the pelvics.
> 
> ...


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## Ed Seeley (5 Jan 2008)

ADA stuff arrived this morning (Thanks Richard!!!) so I just need to get the stuff for the hardscape.  Unfortunately went to the Stone merchants near me, who have a great selection of cobbles and rocks - including holestone and Spaghetti rock - but they are shut weekends!!!  And actually a good job as I liked the look of something called Angel stone cobbles, but the brochure says they contain Calcium Carbonate and that's not good for a soft water tank!  So I think it might have to be Lakeland, which are a darker blueish grey colour, almost black when wet, or Caledonian cobbles which are grey granite.

The wood is proving even harder.  Nowhere near me has anything except Mopani wood or big lumps of Bogwood that are totally useless for what I want  So after typing this I'm off to my local wood to get some beech branches and see if I can find any suitable ones.


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## Garuf (5 Jan 2008)

If you can justify the journey glovers in fenton, stoke-on-trent have the unipac wood in, thats where I got mine, give them a call first they might be able to post you some.


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## Ed Seeley (5 Jan 2008)

Thanks Garuf but the wood is probably sorted.  A quick walk round my local wood found quite a lot of dead standing wood, not lying on the ground, that looked pretty good.  After a few hours scraping off all the bark (some much easier than others!) I have some really great branches.  The only problem is they float like corks at the moment so I've got them in the tank soaking.  I've half filled the tank with warm tap water and put some stones on to hold the wood down so at the moment the tank looks like this;




A close up on the wood.  What do you reckon?  I think it'll look good once it's soaked and got a little darker.


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## daniel19831123 (5 Jan 2008)

They will take ages to sink won't they? I tried soaking some wood I picked from outside once.... Took me 3 months and yet it still floats like a cork.... and they stain the water a lot as well. How do you know if the wood are safe to be used with fish? Don't some of them release some kinda sap that would be deadly to fishes?


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## Ed Seeley (5 Jan 2008)

daniel19831123 said:
			
		

> They will take ages to sink won't they? I tried soaking some wood I picked from outside once.... Took me 3 months and yet it still floats like a cork.... and they stain the water a lot as well. How do you know if the wood are safe to be used with fish? Don't some of them release some kinda sap that would be deadly to fishes?



These are all Beech and Oak - both totally safe.  Really the only ones that need to be avoided, as far as I can tell, are softwood as they often have lots of resin and will rot more quickly.

They probably won't sink on there own for ages, but once they've got some more water in them and are less bouyant I will be able to secure them to some slate to weigh them down and set them at the angles I am after.  The slate can then be buried under the substrate.  I've got some thinner branches soaking outside that sank after a week in cold water so I'm hopeful some time in hot water will go a long way towards starting them sinking.


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## zig (6 Jan 2008)

Ok we won't ask about the cork tiles


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## Ed Seeley (9 Jan 2008)

zig said:
			
		

> Ok we won't ask about the cork tiles


Yeah I need to think about the backdrop!  All ideas will be welcome!


Well Day 6 and the wood is soaking nicely.  Some branches are starting to sink already!
At first I soaked them in hot tap water and the water went cloudy with bacteria and slightly hazy with tannins.  I changed all the water after 12 hours and that went cloudy too, though less tannin stained.  I changed this after 24 hours and decided to add salt to try and kill off any bacteria.
After 24 hours the water seemed even more cloudy!  I then had an idea; usually not a good thing!   
I put 50 litres of water in and added Milton disinfectant tablets to the water.  This is a non-toxic disinfectant used mainly for babies bottles and things and is supposed to be fine to use without even rinsing.  I have used it for fish equipment before and never had any toxicity issues.
That was left for 48 hours and the water was perfectly clear and there is only a slight tannin colour to the water.
I have now drained that water off, scrubbed the wood and replaced it with clean hot water.  I also decided on the four pieces I liked the best, but one of those literally fell apart during cleaning - not a good sign - so was binned.  The three remaining pieces are good and solid and should look good IMHO.  I think a lot of the tannin colour is actually coming from the one piece of bogwood I've been soaking for the 'pile' at the end of the tank.

The plants arrived today and I'll let the wood soak in fresh water until Saturday and get the cobbles tomorrow or Friday so Saturday will be the big set up day!  Can't wait!


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## Lisa_Perry75 (12 Jan 2008)

*looks at the date today* I think its time for an update!


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## Ed Seeley (12 Jan 2008)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> *looks at the date today* I think its time for an update!



You're dead right!  See next post!!!   
Just finished after a _long _day!


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## Ed Seeley (12 Jan 2008)

Had a long day today.

Had to get mature media out of my Ehiem, remove all the plants and fish from the Cube tank in the living room and set up the Rio, therefore I've only just finished and turned the computer on!

I have tried to take plenty of photos, but I've missed a lot of things.

First I had to sort the cobbles and wood out.  The wood is nearly sinking and there is no cloudiness from it either.  However there was no way the wood was going to sit in the positions I wanted so I had to work out a solution.  The answer that finally came to me was to cable tie the wood to piece of slate.  This keeps the wood submerged and at the right angle.
What I did was cut the base of the wood at the correct angle, then drill a whole through the base to pass the cable ties through.




I attached the three pieces of wood to separate pieces of slate to allow me to arrange them.
This is what I came up with!




I then got the cobbles after sorting through three bags to pick the most even colours and best size shape to form my 'ribbon' of cobbles.




Next I added the powersand special, some old peat out of my external filter and some mulm from that filter to the back area and added the sand and Tetraplant complete from my cube tank to the front and then added the remainder of the complete to that area and mixed it in.




I then added the Aquasoil Amazonia.  (I'd got two bags, but only needed one as it turns out, although it seems to have settled a fair bit with planting so I may need a fair bit to top up.)




Next I added the moss to the branches.  I decided I'd have to do this in situ early on so the moss didn't dry out too much.  There is Weeping moss on the two higher branches and Spiky moss on the two lower ones.
I then came up with the idea of putting damp kitchen roll over the branches to keep them damp and it seems to have worked well.
After doing that I added the sand to the foreground.




At that point the pictures stop!  I realised this was taking ages and suddenly needed to hurry and the pictures were the bit that got forgotten.


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## Garuf (12 Jan 2008)

Id suggest that you need more wood, thinner, and more spindly less sand, and moss on some tiny pebbles between your cobbles so they appear older.
An interesting tank, Well done, I'll be keeping my eye upon it.


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## Ed Seeley (12 Jan 2008)

So I'll have to explain without pictures.

The next thing I did was position the bogwood in the left corner and tie the _Anubias nana _'Petite' and Flame moss to them.  In the middle of the bogwood pieces is a coconut cave for the _Pelvicachromis taeniatus _'Bipindi' that are planned for this tank.  This already has Flame moss and an _Anubias nana _'Golden' on it.

Then I added a little water very carefully and then started planting the sand around the bogwood with some of the Echinodorus tennellus from the cube.  I'm no good with tweezers so this job took ages.
Once that was done the _Eleocharis sp._'Japan' was then planted in front of the cobbles on the right side and then the Glossostigma to the left of that.  There's a bare patch of sand in between the glosso and the tennellus.

After planting the sand I added a bit more water and started on the Aquasoil.  I planted the 6 _Crinum calamistratum _behind the cobbles so their leaves will come up through the branches.  Next to them is the very small patch of _Rotala sp._'Pearl' that I hope will bulk up so I can spread that along in front of the Crinums.  These two seem a perfect match to me.

The _Nymphaea micrantha _have been split into two groups.  12 are on the left hand side and a patch of three are on the very left behind the end crinum.
I've planted _Hygrophila sp._'Pantanal Wavy' in front of the Juwel filter.
At the rear left of the Aquasoil 'island' is _Hygrophila lacustris_, then _Eleocharis vivipara_.  In hindsight these ought to be the other way round so the Hairgrass leaves can flow out from the island and I may try and switch them tomorrow.
Then, finally, behind the wood is a big drift of _Cabomba 'piauhyensis'_.

Finally I added the drop checker and diffuser and then spotted a bare gap next to the Rotala.  This was the perfect point for my 3 Echindorus 'Oriental' so I added those.  I also added a dose of EasyCarbo and will be dosing with that initially as well as adding my trace/potassium mix daily.

And here is the tank as it is now.








The floating stuff is some Ludwigia helminthorrhiza from the cube that I want to try and secure above the Anubias grove.  I'm hoping to do this around the Hydor Koralia I am going to add to boost the flow.  However I may just take it out once everything starts growing.


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## Ed Seeley (13 Jan 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Id suggest that you need more wood, thinner, and more spindly less sand, and moss on some tiny pebbles between your cobbles so they appear older.
> An interesting tank, Well done, I'll be keeping my eye upon it.



Thanks Garuf.

I know what you mean about the wood, but I have an image in my head of a few bigger bits rather than the usual thin pieces.  I'm not sure these are right, but they're as close as I've found to what I had envisioned!  Hopefully the mosses will soften them even more.

I did think about moss near the cobbles, but don't want to go down the moss-covered-pebbles route but to keep the cobbles looking 'cleaner'.  The idea was they looked like river cobbles surrounding a patch of plants in a West African stream, but I've gone away from this idea by planting the foreground and adding lots of non-West African plants.  I'm also not sure the cobbles are prominent enough at the moment (and will only get less prominent as the plants grow) but kinda like the effect at the moment.


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## Garuf (13 Jan 2008)

Interesting, maybe some smaller cobbles to create a break line?
I think I know what you mean, If you have a look at the ada winner this year that's what I mean by a break line. 
Are you planning on hiding the filter or are you leaving it prominent?


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## Ed Seeley (13 Jan 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Interesting, maybe some smaller cobbles to create a break line?
> I think I know what you mean, If you have a look at the ada winner this year that's what I mean by a break line.
> Are you planning on hiding the filter or are you leaving it prominent?



Hopefully the _Hygrophila sp._'Pantanal Wavy' and the _Cabomba _should hide most of the filter when they grow.  There will also be a big patch of _Nymphaea micrantha _growing in front of the _Hygrophila_.


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## zig (13 Jan 2008)

A lot of work there ED  but we appreciate it  

I thought this was going to be low maintainence? but I see glosso planted.

You can never have enough Aquasoil Ed  

Good idea on the slate and tied down driftwood, might use that idea myself one of these days.


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## james3200 (13 Jan 2008)

Some moss on those pebbles would look sweet, willow or fissiden could work, looks prommising


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## Ed Seeley (13 Jan 2008)

Cheers guys.

At the minute the cobbles aren't right, but I'm not sure whether they will work once everything's grown in and the plants are breaking them up or not!  

I decided on the glosso as I've never grown it and thought it'd look good.  Gives me a better excuse to mess with the tank a bit too!     And I'm mixing it with a hairgrass  at the back so no chance of low maintenance!!!

Today I've swapped the _Hygrophila lacustris _and the _Eleocharis vivipara_ around.  I think this looks better as the _vivipara _now streams out over the Anubias grove into what was open space.  Once the initial settling in has finished I think there will only be one species here in a larger group and I think the _vivipara _will be it! (until it starts growing all those little plantlets and looks a mess...)

I've also added a powerhead in the left corner to boost the flow.  While it was fine for circulation, too much CO2 mist was going straight up IMO, but as I've never used one of these before I'm not sure whether that's normal???  Would switching this Spiro diffuser to the Rhinox 5000 I bought do a better job?  At the moment at about two bubbles per second, I the drop checker is just a dark green!  And I was hoping at this much CO2 I'd be overdosing it!
The current Aquaclear powerhead is not permenant as today I ordered a Hydor Koralia (and two D-D T5 reflectors).  The Koralia is nice and small and turns over 1500lph but in a wide stream rather than a narrow jet.  I'm going to have this on a timer to come on with the CO2 so the fish will have a quieter time of things at night!  Hopefully this will keep the CO2 mist well distributed.
I've added a bag of Carbon to the filter too to help clear the tank and will probably put the floss pad in tomorrow if the water is still cloudy.

Anyway, enough words...  Time for a couple of bad pictures...


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## George Farmer (13 Jan 2008)

Looks nice, Ed.

If I may, the round pebbles look a bit ornamental ATM.  

They'll look much better once the plants partially hide them though, of course.


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## Lisa_Perry75 (13 Jan 2008)

Wow, I'm sure once it's grown in it will look amazing! I can kind of imagine, I think once the pebbles get a bit of green algae on them they will look a bit more natural. I'm sure when the wood gets colonised by the moss it will look awesome.

What fish will you keep in there?


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## Ed Seeley (13 Jan 2008)

Cheers George, and I agree completely!  As you say hopefully they will look 'right' once it grows in a bit.  Or I may need to add more to break up the line.

Thanks Lisa.  I'm looking forward to the wood and moss.  Took some tying!  Next time I must buy a fly tyers reel that holds the cotton under tension - would make the job far easier.
Hoping for some algae on them too.  Let's hope the Otos leave some once they go in.

As for fish...
The definites are Otos (I have 5 and will add 5-10 more) and a pair (or maybe more) of _Pelvicachromis taeniatus _'Bipindi'.
The other fish may be either a big shoal of cardinals (I have 40ish in my 55g tank upstairs) or a shoal of a Lampeye species (probably _Aplocheillichthys normani_) and _Pseudomugil gertrudae_.  I may add my group of _Epiplatys dageti _'Nkwanta' GH96 too as surface fish.

Nothing will be added for at least a couple of weeks, and nothing but Otos for at least 4.


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## Ed Seeley (15 Jan 2008)

D-D reflectors and Hydor Koralia arrived today.

The reflectors look pretty smart!  They were a bit tricky to squeeze in alongside the lighting bar, but, once in, fit fine (Thanks James for measuring yours up for me so I knew they'd go.)  It might just be me, but the tank seems brighter instantly!

The Hydor pump was bigger than I pictured it.  Now it's in the tank it doesn't seem so bad tucked into the top corner.  It's certainly easier to tuck away than a standard powerhead.  The flow from it is good, more spread out with the concentrator nozzle off and the CO2 mist is really blasted around the whole tank.  The flow itself isn't too intense and I think the fish will like it. With the intake slits all the way around the pump casing it sucks in any CO2 bubbles that head straight up towards the pump.
The only problem is that there is some noise at the moment coming from the pump.  It's a slight rattle/hum kind of noise and is rather annoying!  I think it is almost certainly due to some air trapped in the pump still as when I turn it off and on, more bubbles come out.  Hopefully once they're all out it'll be nice and quiet.

The water's still a little cloudy, but it's getting clearer.  Might need to add the floss pad to the Juwel filter.


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## Ed Seeley (20 Jan 2008)

*Day 17*

Well the tank's been planted for a week and a day now and I'm amazed by the amount of growth.  I've also tried adding a few pebbles to the tank to break up the visual line of the cobbles, but I haven't got them placed quite right yet.

Here's the tank.




The moss on the branches is growing brilliantly and there are loads of bright green new shoots popping up.  You can see the _Hygrophila lacustris _and _Eleocharis vivipara _in the background too.  I've already had to trim some of the plantlets off the hairgrass and planted them to build up the clump.  The Hygrophila is producing some lovely long submerse leaves and should be a nice foil between the grass and the cabomba.







The glosso, _Eleocharis sp._'Japan' and the _E.tennellus _are all already producing some runners;




Leaves are sprouting from all the _Nymphaea micrantha _tubers;




and I've tried to get a picture that actually shows the colours of the three Echinodorus 'Oriental' accurately.  This is my closest result using a flash, but they look far better than this;


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## Lisa_Perry75 (21 Jan 2008)

Ooooooh it's looking gooood!!! Is there a green tint to the water or is it just the picture taken?

I love the new pebbles and they do break up the line... I would like to see the big pebble line be a bit shuftied around so they aren't in such a defined line.

Just one more question, in the centre just behind the main line of pebbles will there be some plant added in front of the apongeneton (????)  plant?


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## Ray (21 Jan 2008)

Looking good Ed, some nice unusual plants and the proposals for fish are interesting too.



			
				Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> Just one more question, in the centre just behind the main line of pebbles will there be some plant added in front of the apongeneton (????)  plant?


I was wondering about that too - will the _Crinum calamistratum_ fill out much or bud off more plants?  They have lovely leaves (and lovely flowers too) but at the moment the orderly row of them behind the row of cobbles reminds me of a row of leaks in a vegetable garden - which may not be the look you'd like to achieve?!  I'd be tempted to grow some kind of ground cover or lower plant around them?  Of course, given time your _E. Tenellus_ and Glosso may push back into that area...?  Or possibly annubias along the cobbles to break up the line and spread back some - they would grow easily under the CC.


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## Lisa_Perry75 (21 Jan 2008)

Cheers Rayi for the correction    it was a toss up between the two names as a guess for me... I chose          poorly...


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## Ed Seeley (21 Jan 2008)

The hope is that they will bush out and produce lots of offsets, apparently they will when happy, but I was myself thinking of some groundcover.  The line was intentional - but not for the vegetable effect!!!    Once they get huge I'm hoping all the leaves and clumps will be so intertwined that they will be one long mass rather than separate plants, but I don't want to plant them too close at the start.
Another option is to stretch the clump of Rotala sp.'Pearl' along in front of them as that grows.  It could take some time though...
I may just try letting the glosso spread up there as it's growing like crazy already!
Some Anubias would look good too and I'd never thought of that.  That might be the answer actually.

I tried to take a photo of the cobbles from the angle I usually look at the tank as you can't really tell they're in a line, but I can't get the angle right.  The colour is also down to my rubbish photography skills!  It it slightly cloudy still but there is no real tanin colouring in the water.


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## Themuleous (23 Jan 2008)

Nice Ed, sorry Ive not had time to read in tall, but the piccy's look great 

Sam


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## Ed Seeley (24 Jan 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Nice Ed, sorry Ive not had time to read in tall, but the piccy's look great
> 
> Sam



Cheers Sam.

The _Eleocharis vivpara_ is already at the surface!  When I got home tonight it was tangled up with the _Ludwigia helminthorrhiza_!  Took about 10 minutes to untangle it!
It's going to get a big trim Saturday and the bits with roots will get tucked into the clump to thicken it up some more.

The glosso is really spreading well and runners are coming from the _Eleocharis sp_.'Japan' and _Echinodorus tennellus _already and all the mosses are really growing rapidly, even the Flame moss.  The _E.sp_.'Japan' is growing nicely with lovely down curved leaves and looks like it won't need too much trimming (I may well have to eat my words in a few weeks though!   )  I've planted some glosso in the Aquasoil in front of the Crinums too to try and sort out that out!

Snails have started appearing and seem fine, but the Nitrite readings are still way too high to add fish so the catfish are staying in the quarantine tank for a while longer!

I'll take some piccies when I do the trim and water change on Saturday.


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## TDI-line (24 Jan 2008)

Nice read and your tank is coming on well eds.


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## Ed Seeley (24 Jan 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> Nice read and your tank is coming on well eds.



Thanks, it's getting there, I hope!


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## Ed Seeley (26 Jan 2008)

*Day 23*

Well I' think I've managed to get the best picture yet of what the tank really looks like!




In the end I trimmed the _Eleocharis vivipara _yesterday as I had a spare bit of time before going to the pub!  I've trimmed it right back to about 3 inches.  You can see the gap where it used to be below on the right!  



The Anubias are all growing rapidly (for Anubias!   ) and sending out new leaves and roots.  The two rhizomes I took the growing tips off are sending out loads of side shoots.
On this close up you can hopefully just make out the Flame moss starting to get going a little better too.  (Sorry about the rubbish picture)




The Weeping and Spiky mosses are growing brilliantly too.  In fact the mosses and the carpeting plants are the best bits so far.  (Sorry the spiky moss on the bottom branch is a little out of focus   )




The _Eleocharis sp_.'Japan' is really coming on too.  The new leaves are curved over to form a flatter effect than the usual dwarf hairgrass I believe.




I tried to take a close up of the runners against the front glass too.




The glosso is filling in well and I've moved some trimming up around the Crinums.




And finally the Echinodorus tennellus are already sending out runners too.




Of the other plants, the _Hygrophila lacustris _is doing ok, as is the _Cabomba 'piauhyensis'_, but the _Hygrophila sp._'Pantanal', _Rotala sp._'Pearl' and the _Nymphaea micrantha _aren't growing too much yet.  They're sending up some new leaves and growing, just not very fast.  They all look healthy though.

I've got plenty of snails in there at the moment, but the Nitrite readings mean I'm erring on the side of caution before adding Otos.  I am going to try adding Cherry shrimps in here too I think, but am unsure whether they'll be ok as the snails are growing and breeding well?  Knowing how they don't like ammonia and nitrite levels I'm thinking to leave them until levels have dropped a bit.  I'll test again later today and see what the readings are then and probably do another water change to lower readings.


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## George Farmer (28 Jan 2008)

Coming along nicely.

I like the Eleocharis.  Where did you get it from?


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## TDI-line (28 Jan 2008)

Can't wait to see the flame moss when it's more developed.


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## Ed Seeley (28 Jan 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Coming along nicely.
> 
> I like the Eleocharis.  Where did you get it from?



Cheers George.

The new plants all came from Aquaspot world.  That was only 1 portion and cost me the grand total of $2.99!  A couple of new leaves are going more vertically but with an almost spiral twist to them.  I'm going to let this hairgrass and the glosso fill in around into the Aquasoil and overgrow some of the cobbles to help break them up some more and once the Nymphaea gets going it should help too.


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## Ed Seeley (2 Feb 2008)

Well today the first fish went in - 5 Otos from my old cube tank that had been holidaying in the quarantine tank!  The Nitrite reading this morning was down to less than 3ppm, but still a slight orange tinge, so I did a 60% water change and very slowly acclimatised the Otos to the tank.  I also removed the diffuser to clean it and put the Rhinox 5000 in while I was doing it and immedaitely noticed how much smaller the bubbles were so have left the Rhinox in the tank.  Diffusion seems much better now.






And here are two Otos chilling out between meals!


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## Joecoral (8 Feb 2008)

looking great so far, im loving all the lush green-ness! certainly food for thought for when i turn my rio 180 community into a pressursed CO2 planted system

JC


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## TDI-line (8 Feb 2008)

Looks awesome, carpet is coming on well.


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## Themuleous (10 Feb 2008)

NIce ed.  Does look a bit green though?

Sam


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## George Farmer (10 Feb 2008)

Really nice mate.

Keep it up!


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## Arana (10 Feb 2008)

Looks great and the ottos obviously love it


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## Garuf (10 Feb 2008)

Makes me wonder what I'm doing so wrong, looks amazing.


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## Ed Seeley (10 Feb 2008)

Thanks very much guys.  It's really appreciated.  I'm really happy with it so far and once the Glosso grows in around the cobbles and Crinums, and the Crinums and _Nymphaea micrantha_ get going it will be getting close to how I imagined it.

I did a small trim yesterday and 50% water change.  I had to trim back the cabomba as it's growing forwards rather than just up.  I haven't trimmed the top as I find this type of Cabomba responds pretty well to being left and then hacked back after a while.

The _Hygrophila lacustris _leaves are just touching the water's surface now but it'll be a while until I trim it as the stem tops are still about 5" below the surface!

The _Ludwigia helminthorrhiza _is doing really well with bright red leaves and I've carefully anchored three stems around the Koralia pump.  I trimmed them back so they don't take up too much light but it's only over the Anubias.  No sign of flowers though - I don't think T5s are strong enough so I'll try some in the greenhouse this summer I think.

I moved the _Rotala sp._'Pearl'.  It's now at the left hand edge around the Crinums where it'll get more light.  A Echinodorus 'Red Diamond' has replaced it next to the E.'Oriental' and will hopefully do better here than in my other tank.

I'm also starting to switch over to pure RO water now after starting the tank off with about 1/3 tap water.  I'm remineralising the water with Equilibrium and RO Right.

Tomorrow I'm going on an LFS trek to find the shoaling fish for the tank.  I've decided not to put the cardinals in here but to stick with Lampeyes and spotted blue-eye rainbows.  Hopefully I'll find them in one of the Maidenhead aquatics near me, but either way I fancy a trip round a few stores!  I've also got to go to Wharf to drop off the next batch of Pelvicachromis 'Matadi' youngsters!

I'll follow up with some pictures later in the week as I don't have my camera at the moment and want to spend some time messing with the settings to solve the green-ness!

Edit:  Oh and like an idiot I smashed the Drop checker while cleaning it so I need another!  The JBL plastic one from my other tank is in instead, which I do find much easier to read, but it doesn't look as good!


----------



## Ed Seeley (16 Feb 2008)

Time for an update.




Please ignore the odd stem sticking up at the front.  It's a seedling that was in amongst the Hairgrass that I'm growing to see what it is!  I'll be moving it soon!

I've also got the fish for the tank.  I added 24 _Pseudomugil gertrudae_.  This was the best picture I could manage; they're very quick!




I also got some shrimp (thanks Chris!).  Managed to get a snap of one, but it's not as good as I'd hoped!  Any clues to ID guys?  I was thinking wild Cherry shrimp, but don't think so any more, they have a rather green cast to them.




The moss is really growing in thickly now and the Otos are liking it!




I'm going to have to start trimming the glosso soon as well as cutting the hairgrass back as it's spreading into the glosso.  I'm wishing I'd put a clear divider in the substrate to keep them seperate so I may have to add one at some point.  The E.tennellus is also going to have to go I think.  It's too big for it's position so I may take it all out, or just remove a lot of it so it's just tight in the corner.


----------



## Ed Seeley (16 Mar 2008)

Well it's been a month since the last updates.  A major trim is needed and I started this morning on the E.tennellus on the left side.  It was so big and out of hand that you couldn't see much of the _Anubias _behind it.  So I've reduced the amount drastically and removed all the runners that were going everywhere.  To do this I had to remove all the bits of wood from the left corner and then replace them afterwards.  I've also removed the _Eleocharis vivipara _and replaced it with some more _Hygrophila lacustris _as the hairgrass was too much hassle.  It's now in my Apisto tank.
I'm liking the more open look now.




I've still got to tackle the moss on the branches and the glossostigma and there are a few branches of _Cabomba _still to trim too.  I'm also going to tackle the right hand side and remove the unknown plant at the front (I think it's a Bacopa of some sort) and trim some of the _Hygrophila sp_.'Pantanal'.  Here's what it looks like now;




I've also managed to snap a couple of pictures of the shrimp which are now breeding well and I've babies appearing.  There's also another carrying eggs too so it seems I've finally got some shrimp I don't kill!!!
This is a young one not showing much colour,




And this is a female that carried the first lot of eggs.




Let me know what you think guys.  I'm liking the way most of it is growing in, but it really needs that trim on the moss and glosso!


----------



## TDI-line (16 Mar 2008)

Wow, that looks great Ed's.


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Mar 2008)

Hi Ed,
         I love the way the tank shaped up. The front carpet is looking really nice and the moss has taken on a pleasing shape. Needs a haircut though!

Cheers


----------



## James Flexton (16 Mar 2008)

Hi Ed. just read your journal front to back. not been online much since xmas and missed this! fantastic tank mate it has come together nicely. i see you seem to have had no algae issues at all, unlike me. are you using EI with dry ferts? i did and dare i say it things got er worse every time i dosed. i switched to TPN+ and flourish so i suppose EI at lower levels and things have improved dramatically.  

if you dont mind me saying i think your moss could do with a little trim   , you have started to lose the definition between the branches and in the photo it looks like one big clump of green rather than the separate branches with varying colours and textures. the plants behind kind of blend into the green losing the depth perspective front to back. same with the glosso. if it were growing more compact and carpet like the mid ground would seem that little farther away. have you any plans for another tube? one more T5 in front of the existing 2 would easily fit. just my 2p worth. looks lovely though i'd be rather proud of that in my home. it really does fit great into that gap as well even if it was after a little manipulation lol.


----------



## Ed Seeley (16 Mar 2008)

Cheers guys.  You're all dead right the moss needs a major trim!!!  It will be taken back pretty much to the branches tomorrow (Easter holidays are great  ) because you're all dead right it just merges with the _Cabomba _behind.



			
				jimbooo said:
			
		

> Hi Ed. just read your journal front to back. not been online much since xmas and missed this! fantastic tank mate it has come together nicely. i see you seem to have had no algae issues at all, unlike me. are you using EI with dry ferts? i did and dare i say it things got er worse every time i dosed. i switched to TPN+ and flourish so i suppose EI at lower levels and things have improved dramatically.
> 
> if you dont mind me saying i think your moss could do with a little trim   , you have started to lose the definition between the branches and in the photo it looks like one big clump of green rather than the separate branches with varying colours and textures. the plants behind kind of blend into the green losing the depth perspective front to back. same with the glosso. if it were growing more compact and carpet like the mid ground would seem that little farther away. have you any plans for another tube? one more T5 in front of the existing 2 would easily fit. just my 2p worth. looks lovely though i'd be rather proud of that in my home. it really does fit great into that gap as well even if it was after a little manipulation lol.



I have run a rather lean version of EI and not very consistently!  I have a micro mix of AE trace elements and KPO4 and have dosed that daily at first, but then less regularly, and a macro mix of Potassium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate.  That I dose at half strength and not every day.  I also added EasyCarbo daily to begin with and still dose it after water changes, trims and moving plants just to help keep any algae from getting going!  The tank is also now pure RO water, remineralised with a mix of RO Right and Equilibrium (I had stunting issues in my nano cube when using just Equlibrium and think that may have been part of or all of the cause!), which I think really helps keep a tank algae free.  I know lots of others will disagree with me (Clive!!!!   ).

I'm definitely not planning to add another tube!  At the moment the moss is shading the foreground too much, but once trimmed there was plenty of light for the glosso to form a nice compact carpet and I seem (touch wood) to have some kind of balance between light and nutrient levels.  The T5s with the gull-wing reflectors seem bright enough in the flesh and are making the Cabomba grow more sideways than shooting upwards so I'm happy with the light levels.

It just needs it's cichlids adding now, but there's been a change of plan there...


----------



## Arana (16 Mar 2008)

Fabulous  I've enjoyed watching this tank develop so much  

Thank You


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Mar 2008)

eds said:
			
		

> The tank is also now pure RO water, remineralised with a mix of RO Right and Equilibrium (I had stunting issues in my nano cube when using just Equlibrium and think that may have been part of or all of the cause!), which I think really helps keep a tank algae free.  I know lots of others will disagree with me (Clive!!!!   ).



Don't rile me up Ed. You won't like me when I'm angry  (what movie was that?). Actually this is not such a preposterous idea. If RO Right adds something the plant needs which was not provided for by Equilibrium alone then yes, you would have eliminated a deficiency, no doubt about it. 8) 

Hey Ed, have you ever tried just using GH booster in lieu of the other two? I'd be interested to see what the results are by comparison.

Cheers,


----------



## Ray (16 Mar 2008)

Its looking very nice Ed - the mosses are gorgeous.  From a scape point of view you could maybe remove/trim right back the cabomba and add a black backdrop to show off the mosses and the other interesting and unusual plants you have getting going at the back...  To my eye it seems the cabomba just adds noise but that might not be the case when you see the tank in the flesh.


----------



## Lisa_Perry75 (16 Mar 2008)

The incredible hulk ceg  8)


----------



## Rob Steer (16 Mar 2008)

Hi Ed,

The tank looks superb! Do you have any issues with the wood in your tank? I tried putting some oak branches into my tank once. I stripped all the bark off and cleaned it with a power hose, but after a couple of weeks the wood started to grow a cloudy fungus in certain areas mainly at the ends and around the knots and where the wood branched off.

Rob


----------



## Garuf (17 Mar 2008)

I apologise for ever doubting this scape, it's turned out AMAZING.


----------



## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Rob Steer said:
			
		

> Hi Ed,
> 
> The tank looks superb! Do you have any issues with the wood in your tank? I tried putting some oak branches into my tank once. I stripped all the bark off and cleaned it with a power hose, but after a couple of weeks the wood started to grow a cloudy fungus in certain areas mainly at the ends and around the knots and where the wood branched off.
> 
> Rob



Cheers Rob.

I have only had a tiny bit of fungus grow on the end of one branch and that was either eaten by a shrimp or Oto or it fell off.  I think the repeated hot water soaking and the soaking in Milton Sterilising solution really helped.  I did have to throw some pieces of wood out through that simply disintegrated or smelt awful; they are now in a water butt outside soaking long term for possible future use.


----------



## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I apologise for ever doubting this scape, it's turned out AMAZING.



Apology accepted!   

I'm still sure the cobbles aren't as good as they could be and, once I've replanted the glosso today, they will all be visible again.  We'll have to see how they look again then.  I am happy with them from many other aspects though; they keep the Aquasoil and sand nicely separated and do, to my eyes, give the hint of a river bed that craggy rocks never can.  Guess we'll see when I post some pictures later!

I'm also having real issues with the choice of cichlid for this tank.  The pelvics are happily breeding in another tank and will decimate the shrimps in here so they will not be going in (so much for them being the inspiration for this whole tank eh?!).  I was thinking of adding some Apistos or other South American dwarfs as they are much less efficent predators, but apparently they will polish the shrimp off too, just maybe not as quickly!  So i'm left with a problem here.  I've got to have some cichlids as a tank isn't worth having if it hasn't got cichlids in!


----------



## Lisa_Perry75 (17 Mar 2008)

I saw Apistogramma panda for the first time ever in the MA @ Fareham. I think they look absolutely stunning, and after a little research seem to be pretty peaceful. Their colours would look lovely against a green background.


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## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> I saw Apistogramma panda for the first time ever in the MA @ Fareham. I think they look absolutely stunning, and after a little research seem to be pretty peaceful. Their colours would look lovely against a green background.



Thanks Lisa, but I've bred _A.nijsseni _before and they are amazing and stunning, but can be nasty little you-know-whats!  I bought two pairs and the dominant two offed the others before I could intervene.  That was in a 3ft tank too!  The female's colour is even better when she's guarding fry; she almost looks artificial!  They're much more varacious than my current Apistos, _A.eremnopyge_, and I've been advised that they will quickly off the shrimp too!!!  I'm pinning my hopes on _Dicrossus_, _Biotoecus spp_. or smaller Apistos like _A.elizabethae_, but not sure about any of them either!  The shrimp may well be moving!


----------



## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Well I've done the trim and hacked all the plants back!

I' was trying to carefully pull the glosso up a bit at a time but...





In the end the glosso was so mixed in with the Eleocharis that that had to all come up too.  At least it means there is plenty to send out to people.

To hopefully prevent this I have put a clear divider in made from the clear plastic top of a sweet tub.  As it's food safe it should be ok in the tank.

The plan is that this will stop the Eleocharis runners under the sand and I will be more diligent removing glosso runners that spread above the sand.  I should then be able to let them both really thicken.

You can just make it out in this picture.




So this is what it looks like now,


----------



## James Flexton (17 Mar 2008)

looks great Ed much better, you have instantly got the depth back. shame about the glosso but better off in the end. you would only have delayed the inevitable by pruning it after all. All looks nice and healthy as well 

should grow out nicely. i'll take some off you if your sending out. i dont mind paying you for it, or making a donation to UKAPS if you would prefer.


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## Fred Dulley (17 Mar 2008)

Hey Ed. Havn't noticed this before. I think you've done a really good job.
What's the name of the long, elegant grassy like plant at the back? (on the left, behind the crinium). Thanks.


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## Luketendo (17 Mar 2008)

Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Hey Ed. Havn't noticed this before. I think you've done a really good job.
> What's the name of the long, elegant grassy like plant at the back? (on the left, behind the crinium). Thanks.



Isn't it vallis?


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## Fred Dulley (17 Mar 2008)

Just looking back through the thread, it might be the Hygrophila lacustris.
Ed, how did you find the sevice of Aquaspot World to be because it's got to come from the USA hasn't it. Did you have to pay tax ontop of your order to make up for the exchange rate?


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## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

It is _Hygrophila lacustris _Fred yes.  Rapidly becoming a favourite plant.  The stems are very rigid and upright while the leaves billow wonderfully in the current.  And it's growing quickly, but not rampantly.  Would probably be even better in a deeper tank.

The Aquaspot World order was great; I put a thread up about it here, Ordering from Aquaspot World
Postage cost $50, but altogether the whole order came to about $90 and was cheaper than I could have bought everything here, and some of the things I couldn't have got at all AFAIK.

Aquaspot world is in Singapore, it's just most of their shipping is to the US I believe.


----------



## Fred Dulley (18 Mar 2008)

Appreciate the link and the reply Ed. 
Thanks.


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## Steve Smith (21 Mar 2008)

Looks fantastic Ed!  Love the growth, and looking forwards to getting some of that moss into my own tank today


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## Ed Seeley (21 Mar 2008)

DevUK said:
			
		

> Looks fantastic Ed!  Love the growth, and looking forwards to getting some of that moss into my own tank today



Cheers mate.   Enjoy the fiddly moss tying!


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## LondonDragon (21 Mar 2008)

Looks great Ed, now I know where my glosso came from 
Spent all afternoon sorting it out, the moss is great too, thanks again.
Keep up the good work and keep us posted


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## Garuf (21 Mar 2008)

I'm still waiting on my arrival, the tank looks so much better for the trim good job!


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## Ed Seeley (22 Mar 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I'm still waiting on my arrival, the tank looks so much better for the trim good job!



Hope it arrives soon!  They all got sent at exactly the same time!  If it doesn't arrive we'll sort out some more, it won't be long at the rate things grow in here!!!


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## beeky (24 Mar 2008)

The tank before the moss haircut made me think the tank had a '70s afro!

I really like the way it's come together. From the pictures it looks like the Crinums have got lost in the undergrowth. Do they show up more in the flesh?

Re. your cichlid choice I like the idea of the chequerboards, but what about A. thomasi?


----------



## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> The tank before the moss haircut made me think the tank had a '70s afro!
> 
> I really like the way it's come together. From the pictures it looks like the Crinums have got lost in the undergrowth. Do they show up more in the flesh?
> 
> Re. your cichlid choice I like the idea of the chequerboards, but what about A. thomasi?



I'm after a cichlid that won't eat the shrimps.  I did consider _A.thomasi _'Guinea' (a nice form with more colouration than normal thomasi) but they'll eat shrimps I'm sure like the Pelvicachromis.

I've now ordered 4 _Biotoecus sp._ 'Tapajos'.  They're very delicate SA cichlids from open, sandy areas with subtle metallic and pastel colouration.  Should look good and breed in here hopefully, though I may have to soften the water even more!

The crinums are starting to get going now and are standing out, see what you think in the pictures below...


----------



## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

I've tried to take some better pictures today (not sure I've succeeded though   )

First a standard front shot,




Then I tried taking some larger shots of both sides,







And stitching them together,




I need to try this again, and will try later (and edit this post if I succeed!) using a tripod to make sure the photos are at the identical angle and distance from the tank.

I also took a snap of the glosso already growing in; not bad in 7 days! (Amazing what 2wpg, Aquasoil and ferts and 30ppm CO2 can do eh?)




Even the _Nymphaea micrantha_ has got going now with some gorgeous leaves,




Just waiting it's final fish later this week...


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## ceg4048 (24 Mar 2008)

Looking good Ed.  It seems like you have a better color balance now than on the earlier shots. Did you change the WB setting in camera or did you do it in post processing? Still not sure about the background though. Seems like blue or gray vinyl  might be a better option. I keep wanting to post a classified Ad back there.    

Cheers,


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## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Looking good Ed.  It seems like you have a better color balance now than on the earlier shots. Did you change the WB setting in camera or did you do it in post processing? Still not sure about the background though. Seems like blue or gray vinyl  might be a better option. I keep wanting to post a classified Ad back there.
> 
> Cheers,



I was thinking of a black background myself, but might try others.  Whatever I do I'm going to try putting it on the wall rather than the back of the tank to keep the illusion of extra depth, well that's the idea anyway.  It's the main reason I've held off adding a background so far.

Using a new camera instead!  Canon 400D Digital SLR.  Made a bit of a difference and best for me as I can't reliably alter setting when I'd probably completely mess the colours up!  Still learning to use it though.


----------



## ulster exile (24 Mar 2008)

I do really love your tank.  I have no constructive points to make but like many others apparently, I do like the effect of the H. lacustris.  I have a hygro in my tank I had thought was possibly salicifolia, although not sure after seeing yours even though it is very hard to compare two pictures without a single point of reference for size etc.

The nymphaea is beautiful too - do you make any special effort to 'train' its growth any so that it stays compactish?


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## George Farmer (24 Mar 2008)

Looks nice, Ed.  Very healthy too.  You dosing EI then?


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## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

ulster exile said:
			
		

> I do really love your tank.  I have no constructive points to make but like many others apparently, I do like the effect of the H. lacustris.  I have a hygro in my tank I had thought was possibly salicifolia, although not sure after seeing yours even though it is very hard to compare two pictures without a single point of reference for size etc.
> 
> The nymphaea is beautiful too - do you make any special effort to 'train' its growth any so that it stays compactish?



Thanks very much!   
I love the _H.lacustris_ too and to think I almost didn't buy it!  To give you an idea of size, the longest leaves are nearly 6 inches long!
The Nymphaea has sent two leaves up near the surface, but they stayed under the water and I removed them today as they were dieing off.  Other than that nothing else has been done.  To be honest they're only just getting going and I may well need to trim them soon.  However _N.micrantha_ is supposed to stay smaller and rarely produce floating leaves.  I'm really happy with their colours!  If they do as well as I hope then I'm going to move them all to in front of the filter and put the Hygrophila sp.'Pantanal Wavy' that's there in another tank.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Looks nice, Ed.  Very healthy too.  You dosing EI then?



Ish!  It's rather irregular dosing and leaner than the normal recipe, but I am dosing macros and micros.  I try to dose 9ml of the macro mix and 18ml of the micro mix daily, but I don't remember every day!  They may have to be cut down further when the Biotoecus are stocked to spawn them - they have previously only been bred in very low TDS water and the ferts send that shooting up.  I think the Aquasoil is preventing a lot of the problems I had previously with my less than regular dosing regime!  At the moment I think that stuff is worth every penny!


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## Ed Seeley (30 Mar 2008)

Update today.  The crinums and Nymphaeas have really got going in the last week.  Also got a flower stem coming from the largest E.'Oriental' too so there'll be babies available soon guys!   





I've decided that the lilies on the left side are coming out.  Their leaves move too much in the current and get blown around and block the ends of the branches and block the light from the Rotala sp.'Pearl' (or 'Mini').  Instead I'm going to get some more Anubias to grow out towards the other Anubias and form the grove I had in mind.  The height should work more too.  Think I'll either get more Coffeafolia (there's one tiny plant at the back) or another type of var. nana, but not 'Petite' as it'll be too small there.

The Glosso has now almost completely grown in; needs another week to be at its best I think.




I also managed to get a couple of pictures using the tripod of the shrimp which are breeding away now.  I counted over 20 today.


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## aaronnorth (4 Apr 2008)

Tank looks great Ed, i think it would be better if you could move the diffuser out of the open space, your eyes get drawn to the space but then the diffuser is a big distraction (for me anyway  )

aaron


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## Ed Seeley (22 Apr 2008)

Been a while between updates but here is the tank on the morning of day 108!




Obviously in need of a good trim.  The _Nymphaea micrantha_ have finally shot up to the surface so I removed the left hand group to my Apisto tank and trimmed the right hand group right back.  I also gave the Glosso a good haircut and trimmed back the _Cabomba piauhyensis_.




The Biotoecus have settled in now and I managed to snap one.  It's still a baby and the colours are just coming through, but as they're all pastel and metallic shades they never come through on photos.  They will develop nice fin extensions too.


----------



## aaronnorth (22 Apr 2008)

> Obviously in need of a good trim



And a big one too!


----------



## Themuleous (22 Apr 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> > Obviously in need of a good trim
> 
> 
> 
> And a big one too!



Haha  ditto!


----------



## Ed Seeley (22 Apr 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> > Obviously in need of a good trim
> 
> 
> 
> And a big one too!



Actually didn't remove that much!  Once the lily leaves were taken out and the Ludwigia floating plant was cut back then it made a huge difference to the light levels.  I only removed 4 Nymphaea!!!!  I just trimmed the front edge of the cabomba clump as it tends to grow forwards rather than up (unlike the C.furcata in my other tank that has hit the surface in a week!).


----------



## Garuf (22 Apr 2008)

Amazing how much growth you get! I wish mine was the same!

I really like this tank it's always improving, any chance of more pictures from different angles?


----------



## Ed Seeley (22 Apr 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Amazing how much growth you get! I wish mine was the same!
> 
> I really like this tank it's always improving, any chance of more pictures from different angles?



Thanks, I think it's getting there.  I need to get some more Anubias now to replace the Nymphaea on the left side.

I'll try and take some pictures tonight.  The only other angle I can really get to is the view from near the window.  I realised while getting into my car the other day that there's a great view through the front window...


----------



## LondonDragon (22 Apr 2008)

Looks great  wish my glosso grew like that, mine is more a brownish green lol not sure what is wrong really. Maybe its the substrate. 
Keep those updates coming, its nice to see how it develops, congrats


----------



## Steve Smith (22 Apr 2008)

Looks lovely Ed


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## Ed Seeley (22 Dec 2008)

Well it's been a while but here's an update of my tank!

These photos were taken yesterday.  I've trimmed the stem plants at the back right down to get them to bush out some more so it looks a little sparse at the back!  The glosso has recently been replanted so looks a little straggly.  I'm trimming it back this week so it looks it's best for christmas!

Anyway I hope you like it.

Full tank view,




Then the right hand side,




And finally the left hand side.




As you can see the _Echinodorus_ 'Oriental' has thrived and I've replanted some of the babies from the flower stems so I've now got a grove of 7.  I've also planted some new swords (_E.osiris_ 'rubra' and _E._'Ozelot Red') and some bits of _Anubias_ 'Petite' and 'Gold' in the centre around the _Crinum calamistratum_ bases.  There's also _Fissidens_ on the lower branch now too.

Fauna now is 3 old _Nannostomus eques_ pencilfish, 1 remaining _Pseudomugil gertrudae_ (they don't seem to be very long lived!), 1 male and 3 female _Apistogramma agassizi_ 'Double Red', 2 _Otocinclus sp._, a pair of _Aphyosemion bivittatum_ 'Funge' plus 5 babies of various ages and the latest additions 16 _Poropanchax normani_ (Lampeye Killifish) along with Rainbow shrimp and some snails.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (22 Dec 2008)

This tank is looking great, don't remember seeing it before! Great fish choice too, some of my favourite fish there.


----------



## misscaretaker (22 Dec 2008)

I've just read this from the start and tbh I wasn't sure at first, but that goes to show the difference between someone who can visualise the end result they are after and someone who can't! The tank looks absolutely fabulous!


----------



## nickyc (22 Dec 2008)

Tank is looking great Ed!  I particularly like the Crinum calamistratum - been thinking about some of that for mine.  Bet it's going to look top notch by Christmas Day!  

Have a great Christmas!


----------



## Ed Seeley (23 Dec 2008)

Thanks guys.  I'll try and post some pics once the glosso carpet and stems at the back have grown back in again and it's looking it's best.  Should be a couple of weeks or so.


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2008)

Well great news this morning - my Apistogramma agassizi 'Double Red spawned and I managed to get some rather rubbish pics of the action!!!  










Hopefully she'll now be able to defend the cave and the eggs and fry against the other two females and the other fish.  She's certainly keeping the male in check after spawning!


----------



## aaronnorth (30 Dec 2008)

brilliant, are the fry easy to raise?


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> brilliant, are the fry easy to raise?



Not too bad.  The female will hopefully do most of the hard work, I'll just give them regular feeds of brine shrimp which I'm hatching lots of each day to feed the adults and the baby killifish I'm raising at the moment too.  The only real issue might be the other agassizii in the tank with her.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (30 Dec 2008)

Great news! I hope they survive okay, let us know


----------



## TDI-line (30 Dec 2008)

Nice pics Ed.


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## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2008)

Cheers guys.   

Seems I was a bit over-confident about how easy they were going to be though as the female's already abandoned the cave and is being beaten up by the male (there are lots of hiding places though so I haven't removed her).  I have removed the cave with about a dozen eggs (so I think my photography may have disturbed them and stopped them laying more) and have it in a small tub with an airline to move the water.  Hopefully the eggs will be viable and I'll have wrigglers in 2 or 3 days and then fry in 6-8.  I'll take some photos of the eggs tomorrow if they prove viable.


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## altaaffe (30 Dec 2008)

That's a shame Ed, I had a couple of problems with my initial attempts with Apistos.  Most of it can come down to the male wanting to breed again, when I did eventually get wrigglers, he helped by spreading them all round the tank !!

Good luck with the eggs though and I'm sure after a few goes at it they'll soon catch on what is supposed to happen.


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## Goodygumdrops (30 Dec 2008)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> Cheers guys.
> 
> Seems I was a bit over-confident about how easy they were going to be though as the female's already abandoned the cave and is being beaten up by the male (there are lots of hiding places though so I haven't removed her).  I have removed the cave with about a dozen eggs (so I think my photography may have disturbed them and stopped them laying more) and have it in a small tub with an airline to move the water.  Hopefully the eggs will be viable and I'll have wrigglers in 2 or 3 days and then fry in 6-8.  I'll take some photos of the eggs tomorrow if they prove viable.



Isn't that what's supposed to happen?I thought it was the male that did brood care?


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## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2008)

Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> Isn't that what's supposed to happen?I thought it was the male that did brood care?



In Apistogramma the female takes the lead completely in brood care.  In agassizii they are harem forming species and once the male has fertilised the eggs he goes baqck to defending his territory against other males and females that aren't ready to breed!  The female uses a cave that the male can't get into so he, or any other fish, can't eat the eggs.  Only a few species of Apistogramma are pair forming and the male then helps with the fry once they come out of the cave.  Only on very rare occasions have male Apistogramma taken over the brood care and only in a couple of species I am aware of.

AFAIK there are no cichlids where the male does the brood care alone (the closest I've seen is when I bred Benitochromis finleyi 'Mungo' which is a pair forming mouthbrooder and the male and female take it in turns to incubate the eggs, swapping them a couple of times a day), that's seen usually in gouramis, some catfish and some marine fish.


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## Goodygumdrops (30 Dec 2008)

Ok,sorry,my bad.


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## Ray (1 Jan 2009)

So nice to see this thread updated, a year ago when you were set up this was very inspirational to me.  Also I've been baffled for months how a fragment of flower pot can be a "cave" - your photo of the female inside finally explains that.


			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> The female uses a cave that the male can't get into so he, or any other fish, can't eat the eggs.


Dumb question time: how do they get fertislised if he can't get in?  Does the male just spray in the general vicinity?  And how do you position the cave to be big enough for her but not for him?
Happy New Year.


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## Ed Seeley (1 Jan 2009)

Thanks very much Ray, that comment means a lot.  I'm happy with it certainly and now it's just over a year old there's only a few tweaks I'm making as I go along.

The females in Apistogramma are smaller and thinner than the males so they can get into small spaces he can't.  He sits as close to the cave mouth as possible and squirts the sperm in and fans it into the cave with his tail.  Tail waving and beating is a key part of the courtship rituals, probably to prove he has enough vigour and power to get the sperm to where it needs to be!

Interestingly another key with Apistogrammas is to make sure that the roof of the cave isn't too high or the sperm doesn't get up to where the eggs have been laid.  I have a half coconut cave that the females go into but they will not spawn in it I think because the roof is too high!


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## Ray (2 Jan 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> The females in Apistogramma are smaller and thinner than the males so they can get into small spaces he can't.


So in the wild, where there are no broken flower pots, do they just find any crevice between rocks and wood - vertical or horizonal?  If there is no suitable cave do they refse to breed or settle for somewhere unsuitable?


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## Ed Seeley (2 Jan 2009)

Ray said:
			
		

> Ed Seeley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They tend to breed in the leaf litter where there are tiny little gaps between huge tropical leaves.  The leaf litter can also be very thick and all the little crevices in there are perfect for them.  They aren't always as fussy (and a mate of mine has a picture of a female spawning on the silicone sealant of a bare rearing tank!) but some females are really that fussy.  Mine have spawned on the underneath of some of the wood to the left hand side of this tank but the eggs didn't survive.


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## Ed Seeley (2 Jan 2009)

Well the eggs were all infertile and went white and some in fact burst so it's back to the drawing board again!!!  I'm putting the cave back into the tank and also going to add some more caves in places I think to give more cover and choice for the females.


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## Ed Seeley (22 Feb 2009)

Time for an update.

The Apistogramma have been regularly laying eggs but I've still had no free-swimming fry.  This may be a fertility issue with the male or down to something not quite right in the tank so I'll just have wait and see what happens really.  If they don't get it right I may try and move a female into a tank on her own and then add the male, let them spawn and then remove the male so the female has the tank to herself.  If that doesn't work then nothing will!!!

The Aphyosemion bivittatum are spawning regularly and babies appear at regular intervals.  I know have about 10 fish of various ages.  I have also found two lampeye fry when doing the rescape which are now in a fry tub upstairs as they were so small.

So onto the rescape...
First a before picture.  I rushed this as I took the plants out last night so it's a rubbish pic I'm afraid.





The Crinum calamistratum have grown huge and had to come out.  There are 5 left and one has split into three crowns too.  When I removed them the leaves were about 4ft long and they were shading the glosso and HC too much and also making it impossible for me to get rid of the duckweed that was shading the plants too much.  The root systems were very impressive and needless to say all that disturbance meant the water went very cloudy!  They will be planted in my 180l tank upstairs with the wild angels as that tank is a little deeper and doesn't have duckweed!!!

After it was rather empty and I was debating what to fill the space with.  The open space really appeals to me after months of it being rather congested and the wood is now prominent again with the moss so I needed something lower growing or open.  I was thinking swords, narrow java fern or more anubias but then Dan (TDI-line) resolved the dilemna today by presenting us all with very generous portions of Blyxa on our visit to MA@East Bridgford (see what you missed out on you guys who didn't come!!!   ).  It is the perfect plant for that mid-ground spot so it's rapidly gone in today.  Dan also gave me some Ludwigis glandulosa that will go on the right side I think but I think a female apisto has spawned in the cave there again so I can't do that yet!

Here is another very dodgy photo of the cloudy tank after squeezing in all the Blyxa (very generous portion thanks Dan).  I've got the Ludwigia to plant and the glosso to replant as it had become all straggly with the lask of light but that will wait until the Apisto has either eaten her fry or got them free-swimming.


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## Thomas McMillan (22 Feb 2009)

I really like the feel that mosses, grasses and small-leaved stems create in this scape. 

The Apisto that you can see in the first photo looks awesome too.  It's great that they're spawning, I hope you get lucky with the eggs which I'm sure you will at some point.


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## Mark Evans (22 Feb 2009)

you've been busy Ed   

i love the out of control look on the glosso, it suits the feel of the tank. I'm actually letting the glosso grow freely in my 60cm in certain areas to give a more natural feel.

yeah and thanks to Dan for the blyxa!


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## Ed Seeley (19 Jul 2009)

Well it's been a while and this scape has come to the end of it's life.  It could have been kept going longer but my workload at the moment has meant that this tank has had no maintenance for ages and even the CO2 has run out!  The plants are a mess and I've got a fair bit of algae.  I could get it back on track but it'd take lots of work and I don't have the time to keep this going at the moment.

I also fancy a complete change and when I was in Uganda I collected a load of apple snail shells from Lake Victoria so I'm setting up a Tanganyikan biotope-esque tank (I do have three authentic Neothauma shells as well as these Lake Victoria ones) so all the plants worth saving and fish are going into the tank upstairs and the entire tank is being emptied.

The new scape will probably have no plants at all (unless I relent and stick some Vallis in one corner) and will have a large pile of rocks at one end for a group of _Neolamprologus helianthus_ and an open sandy area with lots of shells for a shell-dweller (probably either _Lamprologus occelatus_, _L.meleagris_ or _N.multifasciatus_ though I'd love to get some _N.boulengeri_ if I could find them).  Finally in the open-water above the shellies I'll have a group of _Cyprichromis leptosoma_ which are open water mouthbreeding shoaling cichlids.  I may also try either another rock-dweller or a small group of _Tropheus duboisi_ but these will be added later on if I feel I have room.

Once I start the re-scape I will start a new journal if anyone's interested in a non-planted scape!


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## George Farmer (19 Jul 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> Once I start the re-scape I will start a new journal if anyone's interested in a non-planted scape!


Count me in mate.  

Biotopes are my thing right now, and having just done one for _Neolamprologus multifasciatus_, I look forward to seeing your efforts, Ed.


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## rawr (19 Jul 2009)

Aw, I've always loved this tank!

Still, it will be good to see the next journal for sure - the choice of aquascaping and fish etc are interesting.


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## Nick16 (20 Aug 2009)

any updates on this ED?


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## Ed Seeley (20 Aug 2009)

Nick16 said:
			
		

> any updates on this ED?



It's all done now!  I didn't take any photos while doing the rescape as I was rather pushed for time so probably not worth me starting a new journal but as it's still in my Rio I suppose I can carry on with this one!

They're rather bad photos as I've just got a little automatic here at the moment.  I'll take some better ones next week.

Here's the tank,





The rock in the corner is Angel Rock from CED in Langley Mill.  It's a metamorphic schist with stripes of dark mudstone and narrower bands of white limestone.  With the algae growth over the top I really like the look of it.  I've used 43kilos of rock - anyone want to guess how much it cost?  

The sand is a real mix job.  I've recycled the old sand from the Rio with the Tetra Complete mixed in with it and some small bits of Aquasoil still in there (I sieved out all the large pieces to re-use in the future).  Then I added some new BD Aquarium Sand (I prefer this to playsand as I don't find it as fine and have never had a problem with it going anoxic) and a bag of coral sand and small coral gravel.  This means I have a nice mix of sizes, textures and colours and it provides some nutrients for the plants and buffering for the water.  If I have to add more I'll get some darker coarse sand to mix into it as well.

I've put 16 of the smaller Apple Snail shells I collected into the tank for the shell-dwellers to use.  I have arranged them in 4 groups to try and spread out the aggression between the shell-dwellers.

Finally I've a load of straight vallis to hide the filter.  I bought two batches of this as the first lot I bought from an MA near me the numpty sales boy gave me two pots of Cyperus instead!  As I had a mates kid with me at the time I didn't notice until I got home!  Needless to say it isn't thriving!  Fortunately I bought 3 more clumps at another store and the vallis is already starting to spread well.  I will keep it restricted to this corner once it gets going.

Next the stock.
I have 6 _Neolamprologus meeli_







I originally was worried I might have 4 or 5 males and only one or two females but it now seems I've got at least 3 females and probably 4 and only two males.  Thye are more aggressive than the other shell-dwellers I've kept but they've settled down so far and are no match for the _N.helianthus_.  However they still have a lot of growing left to do so I may have to remove the other male and the two subdominant females soon.

The yellow fish you can see below is _Neolamprologus helianthus_.  These are part of the 'brichardi' complex (though brichardi is now part of _N.pulcher_ after a DNA study showed they were all the same species).  In fact _N.helianthus_ may well be part of _N.splendens_ which is identical apart from the yellow base colour.




I have 6 of these that will hopefully form one pair.  I will then almost certainly have to remove the other 4 if I can catch them in time.  At the moment there's a bit of chasing and fin-nipping but nothing too bad.  However it can go from this to dead bodies without you noticing a change so all I can do is wait and see.  I have a spare tank ready in case I need it.  The big fish pictured above is the largest and almost certainly a male and he seems to be getting on well with the next biggest fish which I think must be a female so I've got my fingers crossed.

Finally I have 9 _Cyprichromis leptosoma_.







As I said, not the best photos.  I have 5 males and 4 females but I'm a bit unsure that they are the form I was sold them as.  In fact I may have two different species here or a mix of locations but only time will tell as they grow and continue to colour up.


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## bigmel (4 Apr 2012)

Really enjoyed reading this ED   
There is much more to you than your vast knowledge on koi which was where i first met you at koi uk   

Hows the tank doing now mate ?


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