# Aphids in dry start.



## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

Hi all,

Apologies about the poor pic quality through the condensation.
Are aphids (assumption on my part) as much a issue in my dry start as they are to the plants in my garden?
I can only see the creatures on one plant at the moment. 

I'm hoping there is some reasonable explanation to this?

Cheers.


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## Simon Cole (21 May 2019)

I'm just guessing... could they be springtails instead. If they were then you could culture them for fish food.


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## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

Simon Cole said:


> I'm just guessing... could they be springtails instead. If they were then you could culture them for fish food.


I don't have any real experience with micro creatures encountered in aquariums tbh, but after a little research on springtails it seems that's what they are. I read that they do not necessarily cause any damage to the plants and could help remove any mould that grows during the dry start.

 If that's the case then they can only be a good thing right?


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## dw1305 (21 May 2019)

Hi all, 





SRP3006 said:


> If that's the case then they can only be a good thing right


Springtails are a good thing.





Simon Cole said:


> could they be springtails instead


They could be, but I think they are aphids. It is easy to tell, springtails hop if you disturb them, aphids won't as they are "plumbed in" to the plant phloem.

Partially why I think they are aphids is that springtails don't usually come out when the lights are on. 

cheers DArrel


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## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Partially why I think they are aphids is that springtails don't usually come out when the lights are on.
> 
> cheers DArrel



Therefore are aphids just as bad for aquatic plants as terrestrial?


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## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

As I have been dealing with a explosion of them on my rose and raspberry plants recently.


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## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

Best pic I can get.





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## dw1305 (21 May 2019)

Hi all,





SRP3006 said:


> Best pic I can get


100% Aphid.





SRP3006 said:


> Therefore are aphids just as bad for aquatic plants as terrestrial?


Yes. 

You could try flooding it for ~24 hours and then draining again?

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (21 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,100% Aphid.Yes.
> 
> You could try flooding it for ~24 hours and then draining again?
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thank you,
Is that my only option? I filled the tank to start with and getting it empty was a Pita to be honest. 

Would sealing the tank with cling film do anything or would there be too much oxygen to effect them?


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## Simon Cole (22 May 2019)

Flooding is a good option because it would remove the honeydew coating the leaves, which if left unchecked could encourage mold. 
There are alternatives like adding aphid predators like hoverfly larvae or a ladybird beetle. Spraying with clean water can help to remove the honeydew. I would guess that spraying the affected plant with a dilute solution of potassium sorbate could help to prevent the progress of a mold, if you notice one. 
Clingfilm will not work, I'm afraid. I keep lots of insects in sealed tubs that are still permeable enough to maintain large colonies.


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

Thanks, them seem to be confined to one plant at the moment.

Do i need to completely fill the tank or just cover the plants?
And does anybody know if temporarily flooding the tank would cause any issues with the dry start?


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## Tim Harrison (22 May 2019)

You could try spraying them with soapy water first. That is add a few drops of washing up liquid to the sprayer and spray liberally. It often works on terrestrial plants.

Apparently, it breaks the surface tension and coats the little blighters in soap suffocating them; it definitely brings tears to their eyes  After you flood, make sure that you perform several significant water changes to get rid of any soapy residue before adding critters.

If the soapy water trick doesn't work then fill with enough water to just cover the plants. They should be okay for 24 hrs. Either way probably better than watching your plants slowly sucked dry by aphids and dying.


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> You could try spraying them with soapy water first. That is add a few drops of washing up liquid to the sprayer and spray liberally. It often works on terrestrial plants.
> 
> Apparently, it breaks the surface tension and coats the little blighters in soap suffocating them; it definitely brings tears to their eyes  After you flood, make sure that you perform several significant water changes to get rid of any soapy residue before adding critters.
> 
> If the soapy water trick doesn't work then fill with enough water to just cover the plants. They should be okay for 24 hrs. Either way probably better than watching your plants slowly sucked dry by aphids and dying.


That's exactly what I spray on the plants outside. Just a little stronger. Seems to have the desired effect for a day or two so could stop them. I'll try it and report back. Thanks.


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## sciencefiction (22 May 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> You could try spraying them with soapy water first



It doesn't work....well not in my case. I'd flood the tank and get rid of every one of these bugs or else you'll have no plants to flood...And you don't want soap in your tank....


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

sciencefiction said:


> It doesn't work........



I have sprayed them, to be honest it went against everything I've ever known about aquariums, (detergent/soap and fish don't mix)but I'm not holding my breath as it doesn't do much to them in the garden....
I prefer to use it in the garden as it's a softer approach so it doesn't effect beneficial insects. 

I will keep an eye on them and will flood to just above the plants if it doesnt work.


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

Does flooding remove all the bugs/eggs or is it like trying to remove pesky snails


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## sciencefiction (22 May 2019)

Well, washing the plant under running water would get them off, with a bit of help. I'd probably flood the tank and rub the leaves to get them off, then try taking all out. I maybe mistaken but don't think they'll drown and if some are left on the soil, they may come up on the plant again. I tried to drown mine in soapy water and even that didn't work. They ended up infecting all my window sill plants last summer, all destroyed. I wish I had binned the plant they first appeared on...


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

sciencefiction said:


> I maybe mistaken but don't think they'll drown and if some are left on the soil, they may come up on the plant again. I tried to drown mine in soapy water and even that didn't work.



I have to say that's not instilling me with much confidence. I'm away in 2 weeks time for 11 days and planning on leaving it dry until I come back so i can get everything set up correctly, and not have to dial it all down for the hol. 


How did you get rid of yours?


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## sparkyweasel (22 May 2019)

SRP3006 said:


> . . . seem to be confined to one plant at the moment.


Can't you just squash them?


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

sparkyweasel said:


> Can't you just squash them?


That was when I last checked the tank at 9pm last night. When I came home today they are on a few of the Saggitaria, but can't see any on the DHG which makes up most of the carpet.


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## sciencefiction (22 May 2019)

SRP3006 said:


> How did you get rid of yours?



I binned all the plants in the end...


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

If thats the case then ive got nothing to loose spraying with soap and flooding. I'm hoping they won't spread to the hairgrass.


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## sciencefiction (22 May 2019)

Well, soap is very toxic to aquatic life. If you're ever going to keep fish in there I'd skip the soap and just try flooding the tank, keeping it full for a day or two. 

Alternatively, uproot the infected plant, wash it under the tap and put it back on...


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## SRP3006 (22 May 2019)

Ok thanks, I've already sprayed with a very weak mixture this afternoon..If I have no real response then I will partially flood and maybe try to suck water from the surface as I'm guessing they'll float.


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## TBRO (23 May 2019)

I had aphids in my emersed scape. Flooding is the only practical solution. Especially if there are fish around to eat the aphids. A flood for 24 hrs and then drain won’t affect a dry start (I.e plants won’t transition to submerged growth in 24 hours). You do need to get rid of them, they really damage plants 


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## SRP3006 (23 May 2019)

I will partially flood tomorrow, and try to shake/wiggle the plants as I'm doing it. Hopefully I can get rid of the little blighters. Not bothered too much if I loose the Saggitaria as it grows like a weed but I will be if they start attacking the hairgrass.


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## SRP3006 (24 May 2019)

Guys,. When covering the plants to get rid of the aphids do i need to condition/heat the water or can it just be straight from the tap? 
Just thinking about the beneficial bacteria that have colonised in the substrate.


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## dw1305 (24 May 2019)

Hi all,





SRP3006 said:


> can it just be straight from the tap?


Straight from the tap. 

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (24 May 2019)

Thanks Darrel


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## SRP3006 (28 May 2019)

Tank filled on Saturday morning and emptied mid morning Sunday. Plenty of messing about to try get the little blighters off of the plants. Can't see anymore in the tank. Thanks guys.


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