# PM's 54 Liter Journal.



## PM (1 Jul 2008)

Hi, I thought I would start a journal on my tank instead of posting all over the place with my questions   

This is my first journal and my first proper attempt at a planted tank, though I would say that I am not quite at the level of 'aquascaping', at least that is how I see it in my head - just try to grow the plants and make it look nice, Then worry about arrangement    

I have had a big problem with BGA, though that seems to have gone away (almost), from upping my dosing regime.  Therefore, most of the stems were thrown away due to there condition. (Hence the empty background).

Some tank info:
*Filter:* Eheim 2322 thermo
*CO2:* Injection, FE, ADA glassware, drop checker
*Light:* 2x24W T5 Arcadia Plant Pro (4x24W unit)
*Plants:* Tropica Rotala rotundifolia, Tropica Juncus repens, Tropica Narrow Leaf Java Fern, Java Moss
*Fish:* 6x Rummy Nose, 5x Black Neon, 2x Phantom Tetra, 1x Platy, 3x Otos 3x Shrimp
*Ferts:* Double EI baseline KNO3, K2PO4, Trace
*WC:* 50% Every week

I'd like to thank everyone so far who has helped me (you know who you are)   ..... so ..*thanks!*

Anyway here are some pics I took today, (no PS, just slapped them up)!:


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## Mark Evans (1 Jul 2008)

looks good my friend.how long has it been setup?


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## PM (1 Jul 2008)

Thanks   

erm, well I think about 4 months (ish), but I never really finished what I started, and have had many algae problems.

If I could describe the styles I would like to incorporate into my tank they would be Nature Aquarium, and Jungle.  That would make me happy


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## Mark Evans (1 Jul 2008)

cool, very amano in style. you seem to have done your homework on the scape. pays dividends to research IMO.


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## Dave Spencer (1 Jul 2008)

It`s an excellent first attempt for sure. Once it grows in it should look great.

I am not sure what stems you had originally, but I would recommend the more delicate types for a tank of this size. Have you considered Micranthemum umbrosum and Hemianthus micranthemoides?

One tweek I would make would be to make the division between the sand and moss a bit less straight and artificial looking. Still, a little more growth may do this naturally, anyway. Looking forward to this one progressing.

Dave.


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## aaronnorth (1 Jul 2008)

nice ferns  8)


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## PM (1 Jul 2008)

Hi Dave, thanks.

I just googled those plants, and yes, I would love them!  They are beautiful  

Unfortunately, I have no money to buy any though  

I could imagine how they would look though, thanks for the tip


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## PM (1 Jul 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> nice ferns  8)



Why thank you *blushes*


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## aaronnorth (1 Jul 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_java_ ferns


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## planter (1 Jul 2008)

Hi PM,

Not into aquascaping says he  

This is a great first attempt. Well done!
Can I ask about your cabinet? is it a DIY job? looks great


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## PM (1 Jul 2008)

Hi Planter, thanks 

Yes it's a DIY job, I did the drawings and dimensions, and my father built it - he is a carpenter   

Here is a link to the drawings I gave him: (File name is Stand.pdf) You can download it by clicking on the small arrow next to it.

http://idisk.mac.com/p.munro-Public


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## LondonDragon (1 Jul 2008)

Nice scape you are in the right direction  Your father doesn't want to make me a stand? He could start a business hehe 
Your dosing seems fine and shouldn't have any algae issues soon enough, just add some EasyCarbo, 2.5ml a day will help the plants and combat the algae  worked wonders in my tank. Good luck


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## PM (1 Jul 2008)

Hi LondonD, thanks, yeah I used Excel in times of need - great stuff 

I did actually mention to my father that there could be a market for these, but he has constant work anyway and isn't in the best of health so isn't really interested   

I really want my Juncus Repens to start growing again - no growth for about 2-3 weeks now, though it looks very slightly healthier.


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## PM (6 Jul 2008)

A little update   

Last water change I accidently sucked up two of my rummy noses, so they got a free water slide ride into the bucket   
I just netted them and put them back in the tank.  They seemed remarkably fine!  Though the next morning I found one dead    RIP Rummy

The algae battle is going quite well - much less algae growth in the last week  8) 

Still trying to get my Juncus Repens to actually grow a bit, have been using a little Excel as well as CO2, now with midday burst of another 48 Watt T5 - which makes some plants pearl again   

I have also bought some plants from Garuf - Umbrella plant, hydrocotle sp. & Echinodorus Tennelus, which I should receive some time next week.

Here's some pics - not much change though  :? 
Front



Left



Plant that won't grow



Top view - makes me smile   




Any tips on kick starting this plants growth?  Is it just going to die?


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## Garuf (6 Jul 2008)

Up the co2 and the dosing...
I love the set up though, it looks great, I would advise adding some fast growing stems though, try rotalla's I've used these in all my tanks and love them, rotundifolia green and wallachi are my favourite two.


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## PM (28 Jul 2008)

Hi all, just an update on how things are going for me.

I have been having problems with green water since many weeks ago when I forgot to put de-chlorinator in the water when I changed it.  It went away but has come back again.  I did a massive prune today, removed about 50% of my java fern, and cleaned the filter in old tank water changed the pad WC etc etc etc....

I have also changed the positioning of the wood a bit - I like it better but you can't really see it too great cos of the GW.  I have a UV sterilizer in the post (supposedly - long story).  All my plants are doing very well though and my Juncus Repens is growing again.

Here's a vid, I did it to show the scum on the surface, I skimmed it for ages (manually with a jug), but it just keeps coming back.  How might I get rid of it?   

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGj-gIZHyk


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## JamesM (28 Jul 2008)

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2389

Looks good, and is going to look great when the green water clears up


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## PM (28 Jul 2008)

Thanks James, yes I have read that whole thread already, kinda waiting for it to progress some more...

GW is so annoying, I don't mind other algae so much


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## ceg4048 (28 Jul 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> I have been having problems with green water since many weeks ago when I forgot to put de-chlorinator in the water when I changed it.  It went away but has come back again.  I did a massive prune today, removed about 50% of my java fern, and cleaned the filter in old tank water changed the pad WC etc etc etc....


Hi,
    There is no correlation between the addition/deletion of de-chlorinator and green water (or any algae). Green water occurs as a direct result of poor nutrition for the available light.



			
				PM said:
			
		

> Here's a vid, I did it to show the scum on the surface, I skimmed it for ages (manually with a jug), but it just keeps coming back.  How might I get rid of it?


See this thread for some clues:=> viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2389

Cheers,


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## PM (28 Jul 2008)

Well I thought you said that ammonia causes algae?  ie, I wiped out my filter bacteria by accident, resulting in GW.

I refuse the idea that I have poor circulation, CO2 or dosing, maybe poor O2 though.

- ten times filtration, all areas of tank have visible flow, and healthy plants.


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## ceg4048 (28 Jul 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> Well I thought you said that ammonia causes algae?  ie, I wiped out my filter bacteria by accident, resulting in GW.


Yep,  poor nutrition causes ammonia to be released into the water column. It is highly unlikely that you would have wiped out your filter bacteria just by not adding de-chlorinator. This product is added to protect fish, not bacteria.



			
				PM said:
			
		

> I refuse the idea that I have poor circulation, CO2 or dosing, maybe poor O2 though.- ten times filtration, all areas of tank have visible flow, and healthy plants.


 If CO2, dosing and circulation are OK then O2 is produced properly and is also OK.

It's likely that your green water occurred as a result of too much light for your level of dosing/CO2. Adding more light when you have algae or poor growth is usually an invitation to more problems.

Cheers,


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## Themuleous (2 Aug 2008)

B.E.A.UTIFUL! 

Sam


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## PM (5 Aug 2008)

Hello!

So I have been battling green water for ages now, and have been doing lots of massive water changes - this hasn't made it go away, so I have bought a second hand Aqua Medic UV sterilizer on ebay for cheap (lets just hope it arrives this time)!   

I have also received my delivery of T5 bulbs from lamp spec.  I ordered Osram Skywhite and Philips ones both are 8000K.  I like the Osram better - it is just what it's called.  The Phillips is a kind of richer white, possibley slightly green, but only a tiny bit.

I have opted to have one Osram in the front, and one Arcadia Plant Pro at the back, as two 8000K bulbs make my Rummy Noses look extremely washed out.

Here's the tank with this lighting (no post processing just shot on auto with no flash)






The main reason for this post is that I would really like some help to get this looking a bit better. I need some background plants but I don't know what, I find it quite hard choosing plants for the back because I only have like 20cm from substrate to the surface there!  Also some low mid-foreground ones too (at the sides).  I have hardly any money so any plants I get will have to come from the users of this forum   clippings or whatever, for money or donation etc.

I want to get this sorted and then eventually get some snowball shrimp and some more rummy noses.

I am happy with my new bulb, looks a bit fresher I think, em that's it!   

ta


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## Mark Evans (5 Aug 2008)

looks cracking pm. love the sand front.

im liking  the bulbs too! i might invest in them aswell. although george recomends the jbl 9000k's. still not sure what to get.

plants?... i couldnt help you. still learning myself. sorry. i was going to say c helferi. looks stunning in my big tank. but youve only got 20cm, it'd over run you in no time.


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## aaronnorth (5 Aug 2008)

i too was going to say c.helferi - it is slow growing so it shouldnt take over that quick, i have never grown it though. You definatley need some sort of grassy plant - crypt balansae?


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## PM (5 Aug 2008)

Thanks saintly   

Well the c.helferi looks nice, I could give it a go.

As for crypt balansae, I've never had any crypts before, but I've heard a lot about them on the forum though.

I'm not fussy really, as long as people think that a plant will work (as most people on the forum know much more than me) I'd be happy to give it a go, but I need someone to donate some perhaps?     Can Paypal postage and a bit extra      all suggestions welcome.


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## Mark Evans (5 Aug 2008)

you can have some c helferi from me, ive got tonsof it, it grows like a weed in my tank.

mark


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## PM (7 Aug 2008)

My green water is *almost* gone     UV sterilizers are great!





Fish seem a lot happier too


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## Mark Evans (7 Aug 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> UV sterilizers are great!



yep, i run one on my big tank. allways gives crystal clear water. fautless

thats a beautifull layout pm. i'll send your c helferi this weekend   
mark


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## PM (7 Aug 2008)

> thats a beautifull layout pm. i'll send your c helferi this weekend
> mark



Thanks Mark, I'm excited to add some more plants! I owe u 1  
Paul


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## Themuleous (10 Aug 2008)

A UV is about the only thing I found that shifted my green water, otherwise it was a sod of a thing to try and sort.

Scpaes looking great BTW 

Sam


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

A quick update on what's happening with my tank....

1. I got some V.Nana & C.Helferi (?) through from Saintly (thanks very much for that) 

2. Expecting some plants from Garuf (  )

3. My green water is GONE!  Also hardly any algae problems lately   

TODAY: I pulled out my Juncus repens and Rotala rotundifolia, to make way for the plants from Mark, syphoned loads of crap from the substrate, cleaned the glass (and scraped off the limescale around the top with a razor blade). Then I planted the long plants from Mark, and pruned my stems as they were looking a bit ropey (esp at the bottoms).

So I now have some more plantlets from Mark, J.Repens and R.Rotundiflia in a bucket which I might plant tomorrow.

I will also prune the Narrow leaf Java Fern very soon, it just never stops growing!   

Anyway some pics: 

Front:




Left:




Java Fern:




(My fish are all hiding due to the upheaval today   )

Updates will follow soon, I got about 4 weeks to get this thing looking nice, then I going to order some snowball shrimp, then I'm back at uni so won't have time to mess about with it too much!  I'll need it for de-stressing then!   

Any comments welcome!

Cheers


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

Couple more


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## JamesM (18 Aug 2008)

Beautiful mate. As soon as that background fills out a little, you're gonna have one hell of a tank


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## TDI-line (18 Aug 2008)

Stunning PM, love the clarity of your shots.


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

Thanks, I have a Nikon D40X, trying to learn how to use it properly   

I can't wait to get some shrimps!


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

One more...


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## planter (18 Aug 2008)

Tank looks great PM    I love the light, nice and crisp. I think im going to have to look into this in future.


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## aaronnorth (18 Aug 2008)

i love this tank but i think you need something for the midground to break up the moss & Java fern. perhaps Pogostemon Helferi


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## Mark Evans (18 Aug 2008)

what are those fish with the red faces? amano uses them. i would like some of those for the henge maybe?


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## planter (18 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> what are those fish with the red faces? amano uses them. i would like some of those for the henge maybe?



Rummy nose tetra , gorgeous fish might look a bit big in the Henge though IMO


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> what are those fish with the red faces? amano uses them. i would like some of those for the henge maybe?



They're Rummy Nose Tetras!

EDIT: My plan is to have about 10 rummy noses and about 15 snowball shrimp, as well as 3 otos, but my other fish seem to go on forever!


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## PM (18 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i love this tank but i think you need something for the midground to break up the moss & Java fern. perhaps Pogostemon Helferi



I agree with you here... we'll see what comes in the post soon  :!:


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## Mark Evans (19 Aug 2008)

i just remembered i sent you the v nana and c helferi. looks good pm. if you want some more let me know   good photography too... for a nikon user  

cheers mark


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## PM (20 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> i just remembered i sent you the v nana and c helferi. looks good pm. if you want some more let me know   good photography too... for a nikon user
> 
> cheers mark



Ok I will   lol, yeah thanks, just getting to grips with my camera.  Manual focus is really good I have learned!

Still can't seem to get a great shot of my shrimp with it though  :?


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## PM (17 Nov 2008)

Okey dokey then, after my BGA nightmare http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3539, I did a three day blackout, and it's GONE!!   

Here's the current state my tank is in:




As you can see I have had to make some adjustments to tackle my BGA problem, in short, massive prune on the Java fern, stems, and moss. Also took the moss off of the ADA riccia stones to wash it in a bucket (was full of crap and BGA due to being massively overgrown). These stones are no good for securing moss anyway, so I plan to break up some mini landscape rock I have for the front and cover with that massive blob of moss 

I also plan to lop off part of the center piece of wood, to enable me to move it and the one on the right closer to the center, and then put some more HM on the back right.

Then I want some Pogostemon Helferi http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3670 to dot in between the moss, and possibley some different crypts too   

SO! That's a bit of an update (for anyone who's interested), hopefully have it looking nice in a few weeks.

P.S. Is it easy to break up mini landscape rock accurately? How do I do it?

Comments/suggestions welcome


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## Themuleous (19 Nov 2008)

Looking good 



			
				PM said:
			
		

> P.S. Is it easy to break up mini landscape rock accurately? How do I do it?



No!  I tried this and it was easy to break but the bits produced were rubbish, despite my fanciful thoughts of it breaking nicely into great looking its of rock.  I just ended up wasting the nice rocks I had!

Sam


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## Dan Crawford (19 Nov 2008)

The tanks looking nice mate! i'd loose the moss on the left though, it adds nothing to the scape and it's really distracting. If it were me i'd get some more stems in there too, it has loads of potential


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## PM (25 Nov 2008)

The moss on the left will be attached to stones along the front.

From one problem (BGA) to the next!  I now have a ton of hair algae growing in my tank, and my crypts are melting away, I need help!


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## aaronnorth (25 Nov 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> The moss on the left will be attached to stones along the front.
> 
> From one problem (BGA) to the next!  I now have a ton of hair algae growing in my tank, and my crypts are melting away, I need help!



sounds like a CO2 problem, crypts melt after a change in water quality, and hair algae is due to low/ fluctuating CO2


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## PM (25 Nov 2008)

Phhhhh, well my drop checker is light green all day long...

I don't know what to do anymore, seriously considering going low tech or giving up!  Really don't have the time to be constantly messing around with it!


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## JamesM (25 Nov 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> Phhhhh, well my drop checker is light green all day long...
> 
> I don't know what to do anymore, seriously considering going low tech or giving up!  Really don't have the time to be constantly messing around with it!


Yeah, I know how you feel bud, its horrible when things go wrong


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## Garuf (25 Nov 2008)

Innit, I find the best motivation is to have a little bit of a hissy about it then trim everything back super hard and try and find the root cause. That and alcoholism.


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## PM (25 Nov 2008)

It's just annoying because I've spend many hundreds of pounds and I'm really getting sick of it not going right, not sure if I can sustain it much longer, but I want to!

Dunno, but right now I need to do a prune and water change DAMMIT!


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## Garuf (25 Nov 2008)

I've done the same don't worry, I'm treating mine as a learning tank. The next one I won't have to spend anywhere near  as much because I'll get it all right first time. 

Chin up mate. I'd advise you to cut your light in half until you can find out what's making your crypts melt.


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## Themuleous (27 Nov 2008)

Yeh def, we all go through periods of just hating our tanks. Stick with it, its great when you do get the tank going the right way 

Sam


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## PM (4 Dec 2008)

I'm growing some quite impressive hair algae at the minute, just thought you might like to see


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## vauxhallmark (4 Dec 2008)

Sorry it's not working out for you yet. I hope you do manage to keep your enthusiasm up - this tank has great potential.

Hopefully someone will be able to give you some help. I can't really offer much from re-reading the thread, except I did notice at various times that you had quite large unplanted patches. It might help to get some fast growers in there (rotala, hygrophila etc.). Only other things I can suggest are not to have the 'midday burst' (if you still are doing that), and to get it as stable as possible - lights on timers, CO2 on a timer, try not to do to much digging or rearranging, and keep up (or increase) the water changes - I've never had any bad side effects from doing two 50% changes a week (although you did mention you were going to be time-limited from studying). Perhaps reduce the lighting period - I don't know what it is now.

Good luck with the studying, and the tank.

Mark


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## PM (6 Dec 2008)

Hi, the lighting periord atm is 9 hours at 48w

Due to my never ending battle against algae, I have decided to reduce the lighting to just 24w (one T5 tube)

I have been using Arcadia Plant pro (5500K) and Osram Skywhite (8000K).  Now I need just one 6500K tube, either of the previous two look awful alone.

*So, what 6500K tube would you recommend out of these to be used alone: http://www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bulbs-Tubes?search=24w+t5+6500*

I would like my rummy nose' noses to look as red as poss with a 6500K tube (they look ill under 8000K alone)!

(Yes I have seen the 'cheap light bulb thread')


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## beeky (12 Dec 2008)

I'm still not sure I understand this idea of "poor CO2 causes X algae". If this statement were true, then every low tech tank (i.e with no additional CO2) would always be plagued with algae. It must be some sort of ratio/relationship with CO2. I have hair algae in a low tech tank lit with two T8 tubes. I definitely have poor CO2 - I don't add any.


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## JamesM (12 Dec 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> I'm still not sure I understand this idea of "poor CO2 causes X algae". If this statement were true, then every low tech tank (i.e with no additional CO2) would always be plagued with algae. It must be some sort of ratio/relationship with CO2. I have hair algae in a low tech tank lit with two T8 tubes. I definitely have poor CO2 - I don't add any.


Its usually unstable co2.

I had a hell of a time trying to control algae in my low tech tank, but then Clive suggested I do very little or no water changes at all. The fresh water will contain higher levels of co2 and o2, upsetting the balance of the tank. Plants hurry to use this like a drug addict... and like a drug addict, when the fix is gone the plants fall apart which causes ammonia and algae.


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## ceg4048 (12 Dec 2008)

Hair algae is closely associated with poor CO2, however, "poor CO2" comes in various flavors:

If the CO2 content in the water were zero and the KH were zero (or if the plant were unable to use CO3/HCO3) then this magnitude of "poor CO2" would be fatal. This almost never happens though because as long as there is CO2 in the atmosphere then a tank exposed to the atmosphere will have the CO2 dissolve from the atmosphere into the water at some equilibrium value, simply due to the partial pressure of the gas.

The other flavors of "poor CO2" are always within the context of how much light the leaf is being bombarded with. Photon energy collision with chlorophyll in the leaf starts a chain chemical reaction which requires CO2. The more energy received by the leaf the more CO2 is required by that leaf. The most frequent of this type is:
a) high light and poor injection.
b) high light and poor flow/distribution which fails to deliver the CO2 to the leaf.
c) combination of a) and b)

The final flavor is where the injection levels may be OK but the concentration levels are unstable. This is see in the following cases:
d) CO2 is not turned on early enough before lights on enough to saturate the tank. The level is too low at lights on but may rise further into the photoperiod.
e) injection rate varies during the day. pH controllers can be guilty of this, but constantly fiddling with the needle valve can also be a culprit.
f) low light, non-injected planted tanks when water changes via tap are performed.

Any combination of the above will undermine CO2 uptake and is exacerbated by the light energy. Lowering the light should always be the first step because light causes a demand for CO2, CO2 causes a demand for nutrients.

Further details can be found in these threads:
co2 and water changes
Stable CO2 - What does it mean exactly?

Cheers,


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## neil1973 (12 Dec 2008)

Years ago when i first started a planted tank i had a lot of light and didn't have the nutrients properly sorted and ended up with a tank full of algae that looked just like yours. Sorting out the nutrients and CO2 were obviously important in me fixing this long term but i found a pair of rosy barbs very useful in clearing the initial mess, pretty much cleared a 120l tank of this stuff in 48 hours. I wouldn't like to promise that they will always do this, pehaps mine were special  . They can be a bit hard on some plants in the long term though.

cheers
Neil


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## Goodygumdrops (12 Dec 2008)

Didn't someone recently solve a bad algae problem by cutting the lights and adding some Amazon Frogbit to soak up excess nutrients?


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## PM (13 Dec 2008)

Small update, I've cut my light to just 24watts of Osram 6500K. Algae is more under control but there's still a lot, CO2 seems more stable, just need to get the plants in good cond again. Plus I think the fish like less light TBH. Why have I got a 4x24w unit when I'm only using one!


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## PM (18 Dec 2008)

I just pruned and re-planted everything:














I would like to get some Neon Tetras,    I have 6 Rummies, 5 black neons, 2 ottos and 2 amano shrimp. If I didn't have any black neons, how many neons do you think I could get? (54L tank)

Ta


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## aaronnorth (19 Dec 2008)

this tank looks a lot larger than 54l :!:


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## PM (19 Dec 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> this tank looks a lot larger than 54l :!:



60x30x30 cm


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## Stu Worrall (19 Dec 2008)

that tanks looking really nice


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## PM (20 Dec 2008)

haha, thanks, but it never looks how I'd like :/


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## altaaffe (20 Dec 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> haha, thanks, but it never looks how I'd like :/



Do they ever ?  LOL

It is looking good though.


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## Stu Worrall (20 Dec 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> haha, thanks, but it never looks how I'd like :/


i think if its was ever perfect then youd get bored with it and want to change it anyway..


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## PM (26 Jan 2009)

Huff, I can't keep battling with algae this way (I only have 24w of T5), how can I go more low tech??

Endless thread type fuzzy algae


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## PM (11 Sep 2009)

Hi, just replanted the whole tank pretty much and cleaned it out.

Here's some pics:

It needs to grow in again, and I want to get some bigger pieces of wood for the right side eventually, fish are hiding due to the massive overhaul yesterday.

Front



Closeup (front)



Left




These were taken with a cheapo cam as my DSLR battery is on charge...

Gonna clean the filter out tomorrow too.

When I am happy with this tank, eventually I have my heart set on an opti 60x30x36 from Aquarium LTD. Anyone know how much they are?


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## George Farmer (11 Sep 2009)

Very nice!  Will look even better as it grows.


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## samc (11 Sep 2009)

i really like this

it will look great when the hm has grown in


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## PM (11 Sep 2009)

Thanks, people on this forum never cease to amaze me with there upbeat attitudes, it's very refreshing compared to many forums.

I'm a million miles from being happy with the layout, hardscape needs (well a new hardscape)!

But I just want it to grow healthily without algae first before I start messing around even more!


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## PM (11 Sep 2009)

I did have a pair of rams but they died after two months 

Shame, they were so pretty and always out 'exploring' haha





Just gonna stick with Rummies and eventually get some Neons too when my Black Neons go, (if they ever do)!

This one makes me chuckle too!


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