# Lessons learned - ADA 45C



## 5678 (27 Aug 2015)

Lessons learned? Well, hopefully!

I thought I'd start off my journal post for my new tank which I will be starting on the weekend. 

I took advantage of the recent 20% offer at TGM and went to town with the orders! Jim has been a massive help with validating my intended approach and it's been much appreciated. 

I rushed into my current tank and now, with hindsight, there are several things I want to do differently. I was never happy with my hardscape, substrate, tap water over RO, lighting and just the general cosmetic appearance of the tank. 

So, this time round I've gone nearly full ADA with the setup. I know some people aren't fans of the brand, but I wanted to see for myself. 

I've got sat waiting to set up...
ADA 45C
Tmc white gloss stand
ADA Aquasky 451
Eheim Pro3 250
ADA 17mm lily pipe and inflow
ADA Power sand special
Aquasoil Amazonia (powder and normal)
ADA glass wear, diffuser, drop checker, thermometer. 
20kg of TGM blue stone
6 large pieces of redmoor to choose from. 
CO2 will come from my existing co2art kit using a 2kg fe. 
For ferts I'm going to try the ADA system to start and see how it goes. 

Planned planting will be
L Hippourides
Various Microsorum
echinodorus tenellus
Montecarlo
Weeping, Christmas and flame moss
Anubias/bucce

Fauna, I'm planning a large school of rasbora, not sure which. 
20 Amano
A few SAE or otto, maybe both
Then possibly a pair of dwarf cichlids. Kribs or Apistos most likely. 

Updates and pictures to follow shortly!


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## Andy D (27 Aug 2015)

Looking forward to the updates!


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## Dantrasy (27 Aug 2015)

Exciting times.


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## Martin in Holland (28 Aug 2015)

I love the ADA products, it's just that they are so pricy. Hope to se some pictures of your new setup soon.


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## flygja (28 Aug 2015)

20% off ADA products - bargain!


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## 5678 (28 Aug 2015)

Martin in China said:


> I love the ADA products, it's just that they are so pricy. Hope to se some pictures of your new setup soon.



I made the mistake of logging all items bought in Excel! Even with the discount, it's far more than I'll ever admit to my wife!


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## 5678 (29 Aug 2015)

A few iPhone photos from today... 

Settled on a layout which I think I'm happy with! I'm not going to fill it for a day or so to make tweaking easier if I decide to. I had to make the island a little bigger than I'd started with as I felt it was sacrificing too much planting space. I've used lots of substrate supports around the edges too. 

The one thing I'm toying with still is banking up the rear corner some more and add some more stones in there too. 

I've ordered up some clear filter hoses and was slightly annoyed at myself that I had forgotten to do so already!

All comments welcome!


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## 5678 (30 Aug 2015)

Looking at it this morning I'm not happy with it.

Can't get away from the thought that the back left corner needs more height. I want to grow some stems in there anyway, but it's a lot of height to fill.

The risk I see is that if I start building up with rocks and soil then I'm going to have a very thick soil layer and potentially less surface area for planting.

Maybe I plant this and see how it goes? There isn't much to disassemble if I do want to bank it up more.


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## alto (30 Aug 2015)

Exciting new tank 

for the scape, I feel it's a bit too even - if that make sense - it's a nice square island with nice even sand edges ... can you slant the rocks more (they seem v upright in the photo), also add some angle to the shoreline; you can plant gaps in the rocks so still retain planting area, this is a very different style ( A Brief Crack of Light), but I suspect when it grows in there will be plenty of foliage


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## Lukmana91 (30 Aug 2015)

If you are planning to bank the back corner, i would suggest inserting substrate supports to hold the bank. 

James Finley seems to be one of the aquascaper that I see often does so. It is a sort of thick plastic plates that you insert into your substrate.
Once your plants grows, you wouldn't even notice that the support is there

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/shop/tgm-substrate-supports/

Cheers,


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## Andy D (30 Aug 2015)

Lukmana91 said:


> If you are planning to bank the back corner, i would suggest inserting substrate supports to hold the bank.



See post #7 



Lukmana91 said:


> http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/shop/tgm-substrate-supports/



Or search eBay for Correx. Same stuff but much cheaper.


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## Lukmana91 (30 Aug 2015)

Andy D said:


> See post #7



Oppss, my bad. I guess thats what i get for skimming.


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## 5678 (30 Aug 2015)

Lots of substrate supports in already. Learnt that in my previous tank, it's amazing how quickly things will level themselves! 

I think the photo makes the rocks look straighter than they are. 

Been thinking more and just not sure what to do with the layout


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## Andy D (30 Aug 2015)

I find the layout so difficult to get right. I hope it gets easier with experience!

Just keep at it. No point settling for something you are not happy with as it will just bug you.


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## 5678 (30 Aug 2015)

The difficulty is that with my intended planting all grown in, all you would see hardscape wise is the tops of the wood and the rocks. 

Perhaps I should still build a bank up, use smaller pieces of wood and then I've got less need to grow massive stems to fill it?


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## 5678 (12 Sep 2015)

Two weeks in now and second water change due tomorrow. 

All kit is in the tank now, twinstar, co2 etc. 

I'm concerned that the Eheim Pro3 250 won't be strong enough. I'm going to judge plant movement once they are in and may just buy a JBL e1501 to replace it with. 

I'm also going to add more sand when I plant to bank it up against the rocks a little. Will also bank the substrate up at the rear a bit more too. 

Plant list that I've decided on is:
- Echinodorus tenellus
- Hydrocotyle verticillata
- Micranthemum 'Monte-Carlo'
- Alternathera reineckii ''mini'
- Hygrophila pinnatifida
- Microsorum pteropus trident
- Microsorum pteropus narrow
- Microsorum pteropus petite
- Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem'
- Christmas Moss
- Flame moss

Fish wise, I'm still undecided. I'll add 20 Amano and 20 CBS to start and then bide my time. Trying to read up on Clown Killifish but am reading that they are prone to jumping! I also like the look of chocolate gourami, but they may be a bit too big.


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## 5678 (14 Sep 2015)

Decided I'm giving up with the Eheim and have just ordered a JBL e1501.


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## Andy D (14 Sep 2015)

Why?


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## 5678 (14 Sep 2015)

It's just not turning water fast enough for the size of the tank Imo. 

I've only got it half full of media too. A bag of bio rio in the middle, half a tray of siporax in the bottom and some mesh in the top. 
Factor in the lily pipes and it's not enough to circulate the water well enough.

Anyone want to buy a 2 week old Pro3 250?


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## alto (15 Sep 2015)

5678 said:


> It's just not turning water fast enough for the size of the tank Imo.



note this comment from ldcgroomer


> jbl 1501e arrived today and it was interesting to read in the booklet that while the pump head is rated at 1400lph the expected flow is between 800-900lph when filtering through media and pipes.



You may want to measure actual flow rates


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## James O (15 Sep 2015)

Just looked at how the 250 works.  I would remove blue pad and white floss pad.  Then attach open cell foam around the pipe that takes water to the filter.  This is now your mechanical pre filter.  No need to open the filter to clean it and more time between filter cleans.  Buy some plastic pot scrubbers.  In each basket pack a ring of them around the basket wall and insert a small bag of bio Rio or siporax in the middle. Pot scrubbers have great surface area but superior flow.  This should increase flow for you nicely for £2

Myself and others use nothing but plastic pot scrubbers with excellent results and great flow.  Ceg tried green plastic army figures and Lego with no detrimental effect and proved that bacteria aren't aware of the fancy media names and sales jargon.  They will grow on anything.  My 2217 is full of £4 of media


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## 5678 (15 Sep 2015)

alto said:


> note this comment from ldcgroomer
> 
> 
> You may want to measure actual flow rates



The 250 has a book rate of around 900l/h, with media it will obviously be less and thus way less than 10 x per hour. With the actual rate of the e1501 being 8-900l/h it's much closer to the 10x turn over.


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## 5678 (15 Sep 2015)

James O said:


> Just looked at how the 250 works.  I would remove blue pad and white floss pad.  Then attach open cell foam around the pipe that takes water to the filter.  This is now your mechanical pre filter.  No need to open the filter to clean it and more time between filter cleans.  Buy some plastic pot scrubbers.  In each basket pack a ring of them around the basket wall and insert a small bag of bio Rio or siporax in the middle. Pot scrubbers have great surface area but superior flow.  This should increase flow for you nicely for £2
> 
> Myself and others use nothing but plastic pot scrubbers with excellent results and great flow.  Ceg tried green plastic army figures and Lego with no detrimental effect and proved that bacteria aren't aware of the fancy media names and sales jargon.  They will grow on anything.  My 2217 is full of £4 of media



Will give it a try, thanks. I'm reluctant to put any foam around the inlet though. I've spent a fortune on glass work and don't really want to cover it in a big lump of foam! 
When you say plastic pot scrubbers, you mean the yellow foam sponges or the ones that look like wire wool? (but obviously made of plastic!)


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## James O (15 Sep 2015)

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181161767577&globalID=EBAY-GB probably cheaper at the 99p store though

I understand about the glass pipes . the pot scrubbers work as mechanical and bio filtration.  Without the blue and white pads you should see a noticeable increase in flow.


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## James O (15 Sep 2015)

Oh and some use stainless mesh on thier glass pipes as a prefilter.  Much more Amanoesq.  Try looking for stainless shrimp guards.


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## 5678 (15 Sep 2015)

Will give that a go then. I'll take out the blue and white foam and put some in the first basket. 

Typical that I got impatient and ordered the e1501 last night though! (Zooplus have them for £99!)


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## 5678 (21 Sep 2015)

Tried removing some media from the 250, it's still not enough. 

So, e1501 plumbed in tonight and that's much more like it! It's a big beast though. Need to tidy the cabinet a lot! 

I've also ordered:
- switched 6 gang extension lead
- a shed load of cable ties and clips
- a pir sensor cabinet light
- all of my plants! 

Slight issue with the part of the order from Aquarium Gardens, they were out of stock of some things they listed as in stock! So I have some arriving tomorrow and the rest on Thurssay. Aiming to plant Thursday evening. 

Also lined up 40-50 crs and cbs to go in once Ive planted.


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## alto (22 Sep 2015)

Looking forward to the planted update 

an' I applaud the choice of CRS/CBS over Amanos (which I think just get too large for small scapes)
 - remember to feed the shrimp (well) for a few days (unless you've got a good crop of nice tasty mold on your wood), you may also want to turn the flow down a bit while they recover from shipping/new tank changes ...


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## 5678 (22 Sep 2015)

Lots of mould on the wood so should be fine!

Some plants arrived today and I've just placed them in the tank for now. 
The microsorum narrow is much bigger than I expected and I've bought way too many too. Will see how that goes. 

I'm going to clip some of the wood away to keep it off the glass and to give me better access.


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## 5678 (24 Sep 2015)

Just finished planting! 

The tank has now been filled with RO and is ready for me to add the 40odd crs/cbs I'm collecting on Saturday. 

The water is still quite cloudy and I've had some aqua soil shift over the sand as I filled the tank. I'll remove this when I do a wc at the weekend. 

Overall I'm pretty pleased. I want to add some moss to the gaps in the rocks and also to the redmoor. 
Once the shrimp are in I'll add my ottos and some juvenile sae if I can find them. 

Ive got a Microsorum Trident, narrow and petite left over. All are excellent, fully grown plants so I'm not sure what I'll do with them yet!

CO2 running 24/7 at the moment. Will review with time. Light set to 5.5 hours at the moment and I'll leave it there for a while. Curious to see how I cope with this much light!

Two quick dirty phone pics...


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## 5678 (25 Sep 2015)

With clear water today, still annoyed the aquasoil shifted! I may move the rocks around and keep the soil in the centre. If not I'll syphon it out.


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## Andy D (25 Sep 2015)

Shame about the soil but it looks great. 

Will look better once you have removed it.


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## 5678 (25 Sep 2015)

Will do it tomorrow before I drip acclimatise the shrimp


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## alto (26 Sep 2015)

I actually quite like the soil drifts ... except for the fact that they'll continue on their path to chaos  - if only they'd stay just as they are.

Tank looks great with the plants, I especially like the Hydrocotyle verticillata in there.


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## 5678 (26 Sep 2015)

Weve gained a few more residents today!


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## alto (27 Sep 2015)

How old is your Ammonia Alert? colors seem faded - or just the photo ... these do have a limited shelf life in or out of the tank.

Nice shrimp


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## 5678 (27 Sep 2015)

It's just the picture! It's maybe 6-7 months old tops. Still working as it changed fine when I set the tank up and the Amazonia was bedding in. 

Pleased with the shrimp too. I've put around 60 crs/cbs in, 5 pinto, 5 tatitibee and 8 bees.


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## 5678 (28 Sep 2015)

All seems to be going well. Although I've just lost a shrimp to the ADA inlet pipe 

I'm still running CO2 24/7 and the Aquasky 451 for 6 hours. No issues yet but it's still early days. 

A few points:
- need to shore up the substrate a bit more as its spilling out between the rocks still
- need to add some moss to some of the wood. 
- need to clean the lily pipe and inlet already! 
- need to think of a name for this journal!


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## 5678 (30 Sep 2015)

Update... Bit of a nightmare over the past 24 hours! 

Tds pen arrived, measured tank... 280ppm when it's supposed to be RO! 

First thing was to was give in and order my own RO filter. Bought an Osmotic 4 stage filter that should arrive tomorrow. 

Called the shop I got the water from this morning and spoke to the owner. He was more apologetic than I thought possible and was pretty angry that it had happened. 
They stayed open until late tonight so I could go and collect more which was appreciated. 

Just done a big water change and its lowered the tds to 185 now. 
Will do another tomorrow and get down to the 130 I'm after.


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## 5678 (1 Oct 2015)

Another wc tonight and now down to a sensible 120. Panic over for now!

I've also started adding ferts now. 4 pumps of ADA Step 1 and 4 pumps of Brighty K.


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## alto (2 Oct 2015)




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## Iain Sutherland (4 Oct 2015)

looks good, shame the soil moved when you filled, plug the holes with moss 
Just be careful of your tds with CRS/Taiwans as if you aim to keep 150 its easy for a lot of that to become ferts and too little Gh which the shrimp need.  Happens all to often in high tech tanks with caridina shrimp   and glass lilies are notorious shrimp catchers/killers, a shrimp guard would be a good idea.


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## 5678 (4 Oct 2015)

Iain Sutherland said:


> looks good, shame the soil moved when you filled, plug the holes with moss
> Just be careful of your tds with CRS/Taiwans as if you aim to keep 150 its easy for a lot of that to become ferts and too little Gh which the shrimp need.  Happens all to often in high tech tanks with caridina shrimp   and glass lilies are notorious shrimp catchers/killers, a shrimp guard would be a good idea.



Hi Iain, 

Thanks for the tips. Not sure I understand what you mean about the TDS level? 

Cheers


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## Bacms (4 Oct 2015)

Depending on your choice of ferts you will be introducing a reasonable amount of salt which causes the tds to raise so monitor the progress of the water in the tank during the week

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## 5678 (4 Oct 2015)

I'm using ADA Brighty K and Step 1 at the moment. Measured tank today and it has gone up 30ppm since Friday. 

I'm going to WC tomorrow and then measure daily over the week. 

Bought a jbl proscan test kit to try too. Not a big fan of testing, but I liked the concept.


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## 5678 (8 Oct 2015)

Growth seems good so far, fingers crossed no algae either! 
Tempted to remove the Microsorum petite at the front and put something smaller in.


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## alto (8 Oct 2015)

It's looking good 
- which fish have you added?

I'd wait another couple weeks before deciding on the M petite - I assume these leafs are mostly what it came in as.


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## 5678 (8 Oct 2015)

Thanks! 

Just added some Black Neons, Xray tetras, Panda Corys and Ottos that I already had. 

Yes, all the microsorum came pretty well grown, I was surprised (and ended up with 3 left over!)


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## 5678 (8 Oct 2015)

Going to see how the rotala fills out when I cut it this weekend. Not feeling it though so may buy some l. Hippourides to try again.


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## 5678 (8 Oct 2015)

Ah, also plumbed in my Osmotics RO unit and have it filling drums at the moment!


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## ChilliPepper (9 Oct 2015)

Lovely looking tank, I like the idea of an island


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## 5678 (9 Oct 2015)

WC and some maintenance planned for tomorrow AM. Got my RO unit running at the moment and the water is measuring 0tds. 

I'm going to remineralise aiming for 5GH and 130-140TDS. I'll then keep an eye on how it changes during the week as I dose ferts. 

Going to trim the rotala very hard and see how that goes. 
All glass needs cleaning. 
Going to tie some flame moss onto the redmoor.
Going to try and glue some stones into the gaps that are leaking aquasoil. Then plug the gaps with more Christmas moss.

Really surprised at how quickly the Montecarlo, Echinodorus Tenellus & Hygrophila pinnatifida are growing. 
The Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' I managed to source has melted though so this is going to come out. I may move the Rotala into that space and put L. Hippouriodes in at the back.


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## alto (9 Oct 2015)

5678 said:


> The Syngonanthus sp. 'Belem' I managed to source has melted though so this is going to come out


Just try lying the bits atop some Aquasoil in an emerse set up - something may come back 




5678 said:


> Going to try and glue some stones into the gaps that are leaking aquasoil


Draining the tank or will you attempt this feat underwater?

(as you may guess, the latter is beyond my abilities )


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## 5678 (9 Oct 2015)

alto said:


> Just try lying the bits atop some Aquasoil in an emerse set up - something may come back


Not a bad idea! Worth a try at least. I've got to do a diy store trip this weekend so may buy a propagator. 



alto said:


> Draining the tank or will you attempt this feat underwater?
> 
> (as you may guess, the latter is beyond my abilities )



I've done it before with some of the JBL glue, seems to work ok!


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## 5678 (6 Aug 2017)

alto said:


>



So this tank is long gone now. This is what's in its place! 

It's going pretty well so far. Levels all stable. Dosing kh, ca and mg with a Kamoer wifi doser. Coral is a mix of Sps and Lps.


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## 5678 (6 Aug 2017)

5678 said:


> Hi Iain,
> 
> Thanks for the tips. Not sure I understand what you mean about the TDS level?
> 
> Cheers



I learnt a lesson here. All those shrimp died. 

I now have two dedicated shrimp tanks. One with bees that are breeding like mad and one with super crystal blacks.


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## Shinobi (7 Aug 2017)

5678 said:


> I learnt a lesson here. All those shrimp died.
> 
> I now have two dedicated shrimp tanks. One with bees that are breeding like mad and one with super crystal blacks.



May i ask what went wrong? I use RO myself


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## 5678 (7 Aug 2017)

Shinobi said:


> May i ask what went wrong? I use RO myself


I didn't appreciate their needs in terms of gh and kh fully and didn't test/dose for it. 
In my shrimp tanks now I just use ro and tantori  liquid gh buffer. 1litre of ro and 6 drops of buffer and they thrive.


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