# Why do we advise Newbies like me low tech



## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

Hi all, 

Like many I'm having a go at keeping my first planned planted tank, I did kinda have one a few years back but it was more communal fish with a few plants added as an after thought for good luck. 

Advise generally is to go low tech at first, and I kind of get that, but I'm beginning to question why. Hopefully most newbies will have done enough research to have the basic understanding of the nitrogen cycle, light photosynthesis and the marco/micro nutrients a plant needs to flourish. And off course the importance of co2. Therefore, everything leads to a high tech set up to give our aquascapes the best possible rate of success. 

I have been glued to George Farmers you tube channel of late and I have been watching quite a few videos where he has set up tanks for clients with zero knowledge of planted tanks, even one customer that had never had a fish tank before, yet he is doing so high tech, with high end gear. . Obvs he is providing the client with a step by step routine of maintenance etc. It has got me thinking here that should I be learning the correct way right from the start?

I appreciate the importance of the correct plant choice for a newbie, and maybe start with the easy ones and progress to more demanding species as knowledge and experience develops. 

I am not suggesting for a second that reading a few articles, joining a forum and watching a few videos has made me an expert, but I have always been the kind of person that learns better with practical hands on than through theory. 

I would appreciate your opinions on this, and maybe subjective points of view that I am not aware off. I can see that there are many experienced planted tank hobbiests on this site, and obviously choose to go low tech. I guess this is what I am asking as most probably they choose this route through trial and error. By the way, I am not a snowflake and easily offended so please don't hold back if you feel you have some blunt to say. 

Thanks in advance for your input. 

Kind regards
Paul


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## dcurzon (5 Jan 2021)

it creates an imaginary wall of power... noob = low tech, upper echelon = super high tech


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

dcurzon said:


> it creates an imaginary wall of power... noob = low tech, upper echelon = super high tech


😂😂 Good response, I guess there is an element of that. 

I was also reading that the minute you start adding ferts to your tank then it is high tech. I assumed the difference was co2 and high powered lighting. Common sense as a keen gardener tells me that I must feed my plants, and if I don't they will suffer. I will def be adding nutrients.


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## Kalum (5 Jan 2021)

when (not if) something goes wrong, it's much easier to regain balance with less things to worry about and in turn you learn the basics through first hand experience

it's easy to read up on and have a basic understanding about something, but a very different thing to put it into practice and know what to do when push comes to shove

if everyone dived straight into a high tech tank i think we would have a lot less people in the hobby

plus bear in mind that high tech isn't the 'correct' way to do things, low tech is just as 'correct' and difficult in it's own right to pull off


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

Thanks Kalum, some Interesting points made there.


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (5 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> I was also reading that the minute you start adding ferts to your tank then it is high tech.



That’s not how I define or understand “high tech”. To my mind, high tech is when you start turbo-charging your plant growth with CO₂ or liquid carbon, high doses of fertiliser, and higher light.

I think it’s wise to start low-tech because the balance is less critical and things go wrong more slowly, and less dramatically. You can gradually convert a tank to high-tech by introducing CO₂ then upping your fertilisation and lighting - but it would be harder to go back the other way.


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:


> I think it’s wise to start low-tech because the balance is less critical and things go wrong more slowly, and less dramatically



Now that makes very good sense.


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2021)

Hi all, 


Kalum said:


> if everyone dived straight into a high tech tank i think we would have a lot less people in the hobby





Dr Mike Oxgreen said:


> I think it’s wise to start low-tech because the balance is less critical and things go wrong more slowly, and less dramatically.


That really, it is mainly the <"things happening more slowly aspect"> that helps. 


Paul Kettless said:


> Therefore, everything leads to a high tech set up to give our aquascapes the best possible rate of success.





Paul Kettless said:


> I appreciate the importance of the correct plant choice for a newbie


I like <"floating plants">, they aren't CO2 limited so can make use of <"the available nutrients">. Some people will just have them in for the start up period, but I keep them all the time. I don't have many "stem" plants, they need much too much in the way of pruning, I just have <"mosses, aroids and ferns as my permanent planting">.


Paul Kettless said:


> I was also reading that the minute you start adding ferts to your tank then it is high tech.


I agree with @Dr Mike Oxgreen, I think the definition of "high tech" has more to do with adding CO2. All of us, however low tech., will add some fertilisers to our tanks.

cheers Darrel


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## mort (5 Jan 2021)

I think it's also seen as a right of passage by some. The general progression for aquatics is keep goldfish, then tropical, and finally the "pinnacle" of marines or aquascaping. Within each category there are similar stages you should follow according to some.

I don't think with the advent of the Internet and free information that this old structure is important anymore. I helped lots of people to keep marines who had no aquatic experience at all and it very much depends on the person, how successful they were. I believe it's exactly the same with people on the freshwater side, some will research the subject to death and get everything they know to begin a higher tech tank, whilst others will struggle and would be better off keeping it simple and building experience/confidence.
After that I think we just tend to advise what we like ourselves. I had a lot of success with high tech and had really nice plant growth (albeit with lower expectations than true aquascapers), so much so that I got fed up of the maintanence and sort to simplify my tanks. Now I'm at a situation where the tanks are low energy and pretty much look after themselves which suits me fine, so I'd happily advocate this method to newbies as I think it's simple but for others this is the opposite as they are comfortable with high tech and this is their interest.

At the end of the day going low tech first is similar to the general advice of its easier to start with the largest tank you can afford for stability, it's just one of those rules that suits most if not all.


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## Tim Harrison (5 Jan 2021)

I don't think I've ever advised anyone to start their planted tank journey the low-energy way. In some respects I think it's harder. There isn't really a problem with folk diving straight in with an injected tank. You don't have to inject 30ppm straight away and you don't necessarily have to bombard plants with mega watts of illumination.

Adding some CO2 is always going to be beneficial to plant growth and health, maybe just enough to turn the drop checker green, instead of lime green. Low to moderate lighting is all that's needed for many plants, it's just a question of choosing the right ones.

The processes in the tank can still be controlled and can still be relatively slow with wriggle room to react to change. I think the real problem is folk like the idea of a planted tank, but aren't prepared to do their homework, or the maintenance needed to keep a tank in balance, regardless of energy level.


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## Jayefc1 (5 Jan 2021)

I think this really does depend on the person starting the tank you get out what you put in low tech you probably don't have to be so committed to the maintenance and water changes after the initial let's say a month less things to get a balance right with and slower growth rates 
Hi tech I think takes a little more commitment and time as we are force growing the plants to a certain degree with high light Higher ferts and co2 making it a lot more of a commitment and harder to get a balance right too many ferts cause a issue to few cause a issue inconsistent co2 cause a issue not enough co2 I think we get the idea 
If you become a little demotivated from lack of time diatoms or just a general bad husbandry things can plumit and spiral out of control quickly interest is lost tank crashes and you lose love for the hobby 
But i do prefer to learn hands on and if you are that way I think high tech is the right way to learn

@Paul Kettless it is a really good question 🤔


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## Nick potts (5 Jan 2021)

I think it is much like the reef keeping world, most newcomers are advised to start with either fish only or with soft corals, this is kind of the equivalent of low tech in the planted world, rather than stony corals which require much more stable conditions and high supplementation.

Low tech tanks are generally more forgiving to the new keeper, less light usually means less of the inevitable algae etc. Slow growing and easy to care for plants.


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## Siege (5 Jan 2021)

For my input I think it comes from a natural progression of a planted tank keeper, start without co2, want to get better so add co2. I know that was what I did.

I generally advise someone that if they know they are going to go co2 at some point do it from the start. Plant health and general fun from the tank is so much more. I’m with @Tim Harrison with this I also think it makes life much easier, much less issues.

when you visit AG we can go through the co2 kit and our processes, you’ll be able to see the difference co2 makes to a tank. It’s dead easy to set up! You can make your own mind up then. 👍😃


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## The grumpy one (5 Jan 2021)

I am going down the path of starting low tech, but choosing the right equipment. Allowing me to move up to high tech without replacing everything and getting told off by the powers, due to the vast quantity's of money that my hobby flushes away. So I have researched everything I would like/need for hi tech and decided what I could get to allow both.


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## Zeus. (5 Jan 2021)

Starting low tech and smaller tanks costs less, so if it goes wrong the 'hit' is easier to handle/dismiss and recover. So why spend thousands of pounds on lights, tank CO2 systems, aqua soil, hardwood and stone with no experience of a high tech plant growth only someone stupid would do that  or someone who has done their homework first 

I did a 500l tank with a carpet 50cm below water in my first ever planted tank, spent thousands on my setup, lots of reading over many months, did manage to melt most of plants at one stage, but recovered, the carpet is still going  strong three years later.

Their is a lot to learn, but 'what one person can do so can another' and 'do or do not, there is no try'

Its never been easier to do something hard with the the internet, never purchased a book on aquascaping or read one myself.


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

The grumpy one said:


> I am going down the path of starting low tech, but choosing the right equipment. Allowing me to move up to high tech without replacing everything and getting told off by the powers, due to the vast quantity's of money that my hobby flushes away. So I have researched everything I would like/need for hi tech and decided what I could get to allow both.


Now that seems like a sensible approach. I just have a Nicrew cheapy LED light that will be fine for a low tech but already wishing I had off invested more heavily in the light in the first instance. 




Siege said:


> For my input I think it comes from a natural progression of a planted tank keeper, start without co2, want to get better so add co2. I know that was what I did.
> 
> I generally advise someone that if they know they are going to go co2 at some point do it from the start. Plant health and general fun from the tank is so much more. I’m with @Tim Harrison with this I also think it makes life much easier, much less issues.
> 
> when you visit AG we can go through the co2 kit and our processes, you’ll be able to see the difference co2 makes to a tank. It’s dead easy to set up! You can make your own mind up then. 👍😃


That sounds like a plan, and thanks for the invite I will definitely be holding you too that. Gives us the opportunity to build a plant list aswell 😉


Tim Harrison said:


> Adding some CO2 is always going to be beneficial to plant growth and health, maybe just enough to turn the drop checker green, instead of lime green. Low to moderate lighting is all that's needed for many plants, it's just a question of choosing the right ones.


This was exactly my thoughts....


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## sparkyweasel (5 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Therefore, everything leads to a high tech set up to give our aquascapes the best possible rate of success.


Not neccessarily; what you get with high-tech is faster growth (which leads to more maintenance) and a wider range of plants that will thrive. There are some that won't do well without CO2 injection, - but plenty that will. 
I think you should go for what suits your mindset and your available time. If you know that you won't always be spot-on with maintenance, low-tech is more forgiving.
Also nano tanks are fashionable, but if you can (cost and space-wise) go for a bigger tank, that is more forgiving too, - if things go downhill you have more time to spot and fix the problem before it becomes a disaster. Of course, if you go for a huge tank you can have a whole extra set of challenges.


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## Kezzab (5 Jan 2021)

I actually think a really  small nano tank is a great way to start high tech. Provided you don't include fish...

Super quick water changes. Cheap to plant. C02 lasts ages. Ferts last ages. Relatively cheap lights achieve results that in a large tank would cost a lot. Can redo the whole thing in a couple of hours if all goes totally wrong.

Happy days.


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> I think you should go for what suits your mindset and your available time. If you know that you won't always be spot-on with maintenance, low-tech is more forgiving.



Very valid point, once I do something I am commited to the cause. However I work in the motor industry and work long hours and at certain times of the year (March and September I can be out of the house 8-8 6 days a week. When I was running a reef tank it was fully automated for that very reason. I still have the doser for ferts etc.


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## Paul Kettless (5 Jan 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> but if you can (cost and space-wise) go for a bigger tank, that is more forgiving too, - if things go downhill you have more time to spot and fix the problem before it becomes a disaster.


The tank I have on order is an Aquascaper 900 which I believe is just over 200litres.


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## Paulthewitt (5 Jan 2021)

Just chipping in to say this thread is super Intereresting to a new person I. The hobbie like me 👍


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## paul.in.kendal (5 Jan 2021)

As others have said, it depends on the individual. I went straight for high tech when I began, and would recommend it if you like to take on new challenges with gusto.
Things can wrong more quickly, but that's a great way to learn, if you're robust enough not to get discouraged and downhearted.
And personally, I reckon a high tech tank growing at full speed is simply awesome!


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## mort (6 Jan 2021)

I think if you are coming from a reef background then higher tech is less daunting than for the average person. You should be relatively comfortable with juggling variables and balancing nutrients, it's just a case of switching the mindset to a new set of them.
There is always discussion into which is harder to maintain, a reef or a nice planted tank, it does matter how far you want to push either but for me plants aren't as scary as corals and it's easier to rectify a planted tank should you need to.


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## Paul Kettless (6 Jan 2021)

mort said:


> I think if you are coming from a reef background then higher tech is less daunting than for the average person. You should be relatively comfortable with juggling variables and balancing nutrients, it's just a case of switching the mindset to a new set of them.
> There is always discussion into which is harder to maintain, a reef or a nice planted tank, it does matter how far you want to push either but for me plants aren't as scary as corals and it's easier to rectify a planted tank should you need to.


Over the years I have kept multiple fish only tanks, Oscars. Discus, cichlids, community tanks, puffer and the list goes on. My biggest effort and worry at the time was my 7x3x2 reef tank and that one coral/fish cost as much as a whole tank of plants would nearly. Whilst on a holiday and my folks in charge of the tank I had a sea cucumber quite literally explode after being in the tank for a couple of years with no sign of any problems. Basically poisened the system and I lost 80% of the stock and corals and being 1000s of miles away had no way of rectifying the problem. My parents refused point blankly to never come near the tank again. I knew keeping water params stable was the key to a healthy reef and did that no problem, and knew it was nothing any of us did, most probably a fish scared it into a reaction maybe  either way I lost 100s of pounds worth of stock and some beautiful fish.  I closed the reef down soon after that as I lost heart in the hobby and just couldn't enjoy the tank as was constantly worrying about it. Partly why I came out of the hobby altogether. 

My thoughts on plants are not the same as corals as they were living things. If they die, melt whatever I will just pull them out and start again.


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## Karmicnull (6 Jan 2021)

Having started last August I'm very happy to have kicked off low-tech. In particular the time factor that has been mentioned several times.  I'm still on a voyage of discovery, but when stuff goes wrong, I don't have to hurry to fix it.  Also I can work out a time-spent-on-tank balance that suits the rest of my life.  I may go CO2 at some point, but I'm wary of the extra pruning involved - I can see the difference in rate of growth between my floaters and the rest of my plants, and the thought of the whole tank growing at that rate is somewhat alarming!

Cheers,
  Simon


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## Zeus. (6 Jan 2021)

I feel that planted tanks have less an impact on the environment as reef tank also, even with high tech tanks CO2 injection they IMO not as big an impact as 'reef tanks', obviously low tech tanks have the lowest impact on the environment.
Plants IMO are more of a challenge than the fish and can create a stunning and challenging hobby which helps escape some of the stresses of modern life. My tank helped me massively in the last few years as the stress of professional life and selling a business weigh quite heavy at times, allowed me to escape in planning and getting it all sorted. I fully understand why @George Farmer got into the hobby after a stint in the armed forces.


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## Paul Kettless (6 Jan 2021)

Well folks I really appreciate all your input, it really has helped me to step back and take other peoples views and opinions on board. Even though I think I would enjoy the high tech, I have decided that it will be low(ish) to start with. This is based on a number of factors. The intension is to then move on to high tech as and when knowledge and most importantly funds allow. 

I have already blown my original budget out of the water with investing in the Aquascaper 900 for the low ion glass, and a bigger set up. The light I currently have is one of the cheap Chinese Nicrew Rgb led, which I understand is fine for low level plants. This is brand new and already throwing good money after bad if I don't use it as the plan was just going to have a few fish in a tank with a few plants.

This way I can wait until I have sufficient funds to buy a quality light unit and co2 equipment. With this new lockdown the car trade has taken such a hit in the past year and I'm not entirely convinced that blowing a large chunk of saving is the right thing to be doing in this economic situation. I think it's very much a case that I want it rather than need it as my late grandfather would always say.... 

Secondly this will give me more room for failure/success through the learning process in regards to time frame and work commitments. 

I will def be looking at low level ferts as I just cannot get my head around why I wouldnt. Also maybe liquid c02. 

Thanks again one and all. For helping me see a clearer picture. 
Kind regards
Paul


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## Mr.Shenanagins (6 Jan 2021)

Focus your planting with “easy” category plants in mind. A lot of new aquascapers see all these colorful scapes and say “I want that” without understanding the ways of making that plant red or “look” so red. There’s plenty of Easy plants that aren’t just epiphytes (anubias, Java fern, etc) but stems that will look nice and flourish. Your goal needs to be a full and healthy tank, so when your trying to figure out parameters, these easy plants will be more forgiving and give you a better chance at initial success. 

Hope that helps, we’ve all started from the bottom!


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## tam (7 Jan 2021)

Because when you are advising random strangers on the internet you usually assume the skill/knowledge down. Yes, there will be some people that do the research and pull off high tech first time without a hitch (and with some luck involved), but odds are most people will have more success starting low tech and working their way up. There is a lot to learn, and that process is fun to do. I 100% agree low tech is a slower pace which has a lot of benefits, gives you time to ask questions, research and tweak. Find out what you like and what works for you before you splash out a ton of cash and then end up wiping out your system on day two because you didn't cycle right or factor in fish survival into your CO2 levels.

I'd start with a nice tank, small is ok and some will be happy to stick to that, but 2-3' is also nice as it gives you more scope. You can add a lot of things as you go and factor in some flexibility e.g. pick controllable lights that will let you go either way.


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## Paul Kettless (7 Jan 2021)

tam said:


> Because when you are advising random strangers on the internet you usually assume the skill/knowledge down. Yes, there will be some people that do the research and pull off high tech first time without a hitch (and with some luck involved), but odds are most people will have more success starting low tech and working their way up. There is a lot to learn, and that process is fun to do. I 100% agree low tech is a slower pace which has a lot of benefits, gives you time to ask questions, research and tweak. Find out what you like and what works for you before you splash out a ton of cash and then end up wiping out your system on day two because you didn't cycle right or factor in fish survival into your CO2 levels.
> 
> I'd start with a nice tank, small is ok and some will be happy to stick to that, but 2-3' is also nice as it gives you more scope. You can add a lot of things as you go and factor in some flexibility e.g. pick controllable lights that will let you go either way.


Agree with that 100% I have already changed my plans and should have bought that controllable light first off. Live and learn


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## Sammy Islam (7 Jan 2021)

I'm a noob myself as i created my first real aquascape a year ago when i purchsed an AS900. Before that i had a classic fish tank with plants like swords etc which eventually turned "high tech" which gave me a lot of practice and insight into growing different plants and algae.

My mentality is that if you decide to create an aquascape do it properly, good "high end" gear, lots of plants, go all out if you want the best chance of success with tried and tested hardware and methods. If you can't afford to go all out with a big tank (like the AS900) then get a smaller a tank and go all out on that. I know it looks simple enough, and you would be right to think so. But setting up and planting is the easy part, actually growing healthy plants and no algae is a whole different story. You can do everything correctly and still mess up very easily, and with very little free time it isn't fogiving.

I would rather spend 800 quid on a smaller set up and go all out, than spend 2-3k on a bigger set up for it to fail depending on your knowledge, understanding and experience etc. Failing in an AS900 is expensive if you want to rescape or replace plants etc and with little free time it would be very hard to achieve a full rescape. Where as a 60L tank you could rescape in 1 day and have the fish back in within a week. It would cost a lot less just in soil price alone, assuming you use something like tropica soil.


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## Paul Kettless (7 Jan 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> I'm a noob myself as i created my first real aquascape a year ago when i purchsed an AS900. Before that i had a classic fish tank with plants like swords etc which eventually turned "high tech" which gave me a lot of practice and insight into growing different plants and algae.
> 
> My mentality is that if you decide to create an aquascape do it properly, good "high end" gear, lots of plants, go all out if you want the best chance of success with tried and tested hardware and methods. If you can't afford to go all out with a big tank (like the AS900) then get a smaller a tank and go all out on that. I know it looks simple enough, and you would be right to think so. But setting up and planting is the easy part, actually growing healthy plants and no algae is a whole different story. You can do everything correctly and still mess up very easily, and with very little free time it isn't fogiving.
> 
> I would rather spend 800 quid on a smaller set up and go all out, than spend 2-3k on a bigger set up for it to fail depending on your knowledge, understanding and experience etc. Failing in an AS900 is expensive if you want to rescape or replace plants etc and with little free time it would be very hard to achieve a full rescape. Where as a 60L tank you could rescape in 1 day and have the fish back in within a week. It would cost a lot less just in soil price alone, assuming you use something like tropica soil.re


You see this was my thoughts, and appreciate your points. Coming from a marine keeping background I know the benefits of having really good equipment and plenty of tech that helped keep the maintenance automated and the water parameters stable. This was def easier than tryng to guess dosing, remember, top up etc.  I appreciate where you are coming from with the size but I am also a huge advocate of the more volume of water you have in the system, the easier it is to keep parameters more stable, and more room for error (to a degree anyway) The AS900 im happy with the size.  Plus I know myself, if I bought smaller I will always want to be upgrading bigger, so buying twice in the long run.


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## Sammy Islam (7 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> You see this was my thoughts, and appreciate your points. Coming from a marine keeping background I know the benefits of having really good equipment and plenty of tech that helped keep the maintenance automated and the water parameters stable. This was def easier than tryng to guess dosing, remember, top up etc.  I appreciate where you are coming from with the size but I am also a huge advocate of the more volume of water you have in the system, the easier it is to keep parameters more stable, and more room for error (to a degree anyway) The AS900 im happy with the size.  Plus I know myself, if I bought smaller I will always want to be upgrading bigger, so buying twice in the long run.


Sorry I should have given a more general answer rather than specific to you case considering its already ordered.

The best advice for a noob is do it properly, research a lot, and go all out. Spend money on a lot of plants, a good 10% of your overall budget seems like a good number for a fully planted tank. Buying a few buce and anubias can easily eat up a small plant budget. Lots of water changes the first month makes all the difference, especially daily water changes for the first week. 

So for me essentially telling noobs to start low tech and then upgrade to high tech is because there is a better success rate, or if they go high tech route a 60-125L is plenty if they go all out. Also it sets a routine for weekly cleaning etc and the bigger the tank the more maintenance needed which they may end up skipping. If they fail after spending so much money, time and effort they may end up giving up and resenting the hobby and that's not what "we" want.


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## Paul Kettless (7 Jan 2021)

Fully agree Sammy, I have invested in good soil, jbl volcano and tropica for substrate and have a healthy budget for plants, as I will def be planting heavy from the start.


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## George Farmer (11 Jan 2021)

These days I encourage beginners interested in aquascaping to stick with easy plants, low-moderate light and CO2 injection. This is a trifecta of guaranteed success in my experience!


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## Paul Kettless (11 Jan 2021)

George Farmer said:


> These days I encourage beginners interested in aquascaping to stick with easy plants, low-moderate light and CO2 injection. This is a trifecta of guaranteed success in my experience!


Thanks very much for your comments George, advise taken on board.


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## George Farmer (11 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Thanks very much for your comments George, advise taken on board.


You're welcome. All the best with your aquascaping journey!


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## Paul Kettless (23 Jan 2021)

Hi All,

I thought I would resurrect this post, and posted below is a link to another thread I started which once again was giving mixed opinions.  To someone with some knowledge, and not a complete newbie, I appreciated the comments.  So much so, that my opinion has been changed, and I have decided to start with easy plants, co2 injection, and dosing ferts.  





						South American fish choice
					

Hi All,  I have been doing some homework and plenty of reading based around the hardscape and Mopani wood that I already have for my As900. I will be going for a triangular composition, heavily planted in one section Im hoping to have areas at the front that will allow me to have a couple of...



					www.ukaps.org
				




I think the additional information and debate will help people with no experience or knowledge get a better handle on things, and also realise that neither route is right or wrong, just what is best suited for you.  For me I can see the importance of co2 for plants to be healthy and grow, no matter what category they come in too.  One particular comment was that even if you start with small amounts of co2 it is far better than none at all.



George Farmer said:


> These days I encourage beginners interested in aquascaping to stick with easy plants, low-moderate light and CO2 injection. This is a trifecta of guaranteed success in my experience!



For me this seems to make perfect sense now, but I had to find that out myself between the combination of both posts.
However, it still makes me now question even more, the reason why I started this thread.


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## John q (23 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> However, it still makes me now question even more, the reason why I started this thread.



Because you subconsciously knew you were to become the next high priest of Co2 and ferts, lol.

Enjoy the ride, you seem like you've weighed up the pros and cons in an informed way. 

Cheers.


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## Kevin Eades (24 Jan 2021)

I would say mainly cost. Why advise someone they need all the high end equipment to achieve success. Could scare a lot of people off the hobby. Also if they are new and spend a lot and find the hobby is not for them it's a lot of money gone to waste. You can always convert low energy to high energy but you won't get your money back if high energy is too much commitment.


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## Paul Kettless (24 Jan 2021)

Kevin Eades said:


> I would say mainly cost. Why advise someone they need all the high end equipment to achieve success. Could scare a lot of people off the hobby. Also if they are new and spend a lot and find the hobby is not for them it's a lot of money gone to waste. You can always convert low energy to high energy but you won't get your money back if high energy is too much commitment.


Yes I couldn't agree more Kevin, you have some valid points there.  I wonder though for future "newbies" (I hate that term) is it worth finding out what the persons rough budget is for there set up.  Because I have been on the marine reef side of the hobby where you need incredibly deep pockets, I have given myself around £1200 overall, with 15% (ish) of that held back for the plants.  I appreciate thats a reasonably healthy budget and not for everyone.  But the adage, buy cheap, buy twice definitely exist in this hobby.


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## zozo (24 Jan 2021)

A good old all saying analogy often used is:

The High tech aquarium is meritoriously compared to the Racecar in this hobby...

And we don't advise novice drivers to start learning all you need to know about traffic in a racecar.


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## Paul Kettless (24 Jan 2021)

zozo said:


> A good old all saying analogy often used is:
> 
> The High tech aquarium is meritoriously compared to the Racecar in this hobby...
> 
> And we don't advise novice drivers to start learning all you need to know about traffic in a racecar.


Not quite sure I agree with that analogy, I drive a high performance care but 95% of the time its driven at 30mph However, a valid point


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## Kevin Eades (24 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Yes I couldn't agree more Kevin, you have some valid points there.  I wonder though for future "newbies" (I hate that term) is it worth finding out what the persons rough budget is for there set up.  Because I have been on the marine reef side of the hobby where you need incredibly deep pockets, I have given myself around £1200 overall, with 15% (ish) of that held back for the plants.  I appreciate thats a reasonably healthy budget and not for everyone.  But the adage, buy cheap, buy twice definitely exist in this hobby.


I would say as an experienced fish keeper you are not a newbie as you put it. You know the commitment required and that you enjoy fish keeping. I would not recommend spending your budget for a first time fish keeper who might get bored. I am jealous as i sit here cleaning my next second hand tank. Ive bought 1 new, 2 second hand and 1 given to me by my sister. Only spent 180 so far on tanks and im up to 4 tanks.


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## Paul Kettless (24 Jan 2021)

Kevin Eades said:


> I would say as an experienced fish keeper you are not a newbie as you put it. You know the commitment required and that you enjoy fish keeping. I would not recommend spending your budget for a first time fish keeper who might get bored. I am jealous as i sit here cleaning my next second hand tank. Ive bought 1 new, 2 second hand and 1 given to me by my sister. Only spent 180 so far on tanks and im up to 4 tanks.


Mate I'm the one who is jealous, if only I had room for 4 tanks lol. As you said not a newbie to fish keeping, but when it comes to aquarium plants and especially c02 I most certainly am.


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## zozo (24 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Not quite sure I agree with that analogy, I drive a high performance care but 95% of the time its driven at 30mph However, a valid point



I guess the first aquarium from a Biology professor is a different kind of newbie than from a housepainter. 

Thus there is quite some slack between novices and newbies...  As far as I know, it's not the other forum members deciding on who is what and what is what to a certain degree... Even if one declares and presents himself a newbie or a novice, the degree is still not for others to determine.  All tho both terms could implement we are dealing with a beginner. Then giving the advice to start running before you learned to walk could be considered not the best advice.

In the end, it's only a piece of advice and everybody should do whatever they feel confident doing regardless of the degree of experience.


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## mort (24 Jan 2021)

"All the gear but no idea" can certainly apply. I get why people advocate high tech as being perhaps easier to get good results but you can also cock it up quicker with more technology. 
It's the same scenario as with marine. Does a newbie keeping soft corals need a doser or calcium reactor, probably not. Does a person wanting simple easy plants need co2 or heavy dosing, again probably not. Would ever scenario benefit from the addition of those things in the long run, probably yes.

I think it still just comes down to the person. You either get all the variables and understand how to juggle them or you don't. If things are confusing to begin with it makes far more sense to remove some of these variables until things begin to slot together more in your mind.


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