# Flourish Excel and BBA



## stujo (11 Sep 2010)

I am struggling just a bit with BBA which is growing only on my Redmoor Wood.   With the exception of a minor amount of Rhizo and an even smaller amount of green spot algae everything else is growing/going extremely well.  The tank has now been setup and running for about 8 weeks.   From reading on here it seems that BBA is normally as a result of fluctuating or low CO2.   This is strange as I have 10 (rated) times turnover with pressurised CO2 and am using EI with dry salts and the wood with the BBA is in probably the highest flow area.  I have reduced my dosing of PO4 and increased KNO3 slightly to see if this helps (is this correct?).

Can somebody please advise on the following:
1. Is Flourish Excel identical to Easy Carbo as reading on here it seems overdosing with this might eliminate my BBA although obviously not solve why BBA is appearing?
2.  At what level can I overdose with either Flourish Excel or Easy Carbo such that I don't risk zapping my Amano shrimp?

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.

Many thanks


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## ceg4048 (12 Sep 2010)

stujo said:
			
		

> I have reduced my dosing of PO4 and increased KNO3 slightly to see if this helps (is this correct?).


Hi, No...sorry. This is not correct. In fact this is VERY not correct. BBA couldn't care less about PO4. However, Rhizo and GSA love the fact that you are reducing the PO4.



			
				stujo said:
			
		

> 1. Is Flourish Excel identical to Easy Carbo as reading on here it seems overdosing with this might eliminate my BBA although obviously not solve why BBA is appearing?


Yes, Excel=EasyCarbo. Overdosing can kill the tufts that form. It's very difficult to eliminate completely from non-growing surfaces though. If there are only a few tufts then it might be easier to simply remove them at water change time. If there are a lot then this means you should really look at the timing of your injection or the review whether you have too much light.

I cannot answer the shrimp toxicity question. Perhaps one of our shrimpers can tackle this one?

Cheers,


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## stujo (12 Sep 2010)

Hi Clive,
Thanks for reply.  I got info from a post on another forum about reducing PO4 for helping with BBA, however, did not think about the adverse affect on the Rhizo and GSA.  I can follow a tip given by George Farmer and use a small brush to carefully paint Excel over the BBA when it is exposed at water change.
Can you perhaps advise further re my setup re Rhizo and GSA.  I have a 200 litre tank 44"L x 15"W x 22"H.  Lighting is 3 x 40w T8's for a 7 hour photo period (was 8 hrs but have now reduced to 7 hrs).  I am using CO2 injection via an FE coming on 2hrs before lights on and going off 2 hrs before lights off and drop checker shows green.  Diffusion perhaps not the greatest, I am using two Rhino glass diffusers, one at  each end of the tank, have now moved these to be directly under (but well below) each of my 2 spraybars to hopefully improve distribution of CO2. Perhaps doesn't look so pretty, but that isn't a big concern at the moment.  I am using dry salts dosing  0.5 tsp KNO3, 0.25 tsp KH2PO4, 1.5tsp MgSO4 Sun, Tue, Thu, 0.25 tsp of Trace Mon, Wed and nothing at all Fri and Sat.  Water change is 50% each Sunday before photo & CO2 period.
I have 10 x rated flow and as I said all plants growing really well (and fast), tank is reasonably well planted.  Am I doing anything wrong?    Thanks again

P.S. Have pruned the rotala to improve flow since these pics were taken, it grows quite quickly!!


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## ceg4048 (12 Sep 2010)

stujo said:
			
		

> I got info from a post on another forum about reducing PO4 for helping with BBA, however, did not think about the adverse affect on the Rhizo and GSA.


Hi Stu,
  OK, that explains it. Do you remember the scene from Matrix Reloaded, where Neo begged Trinity to stay out of The Matrix? Well, she went ahead anyway and wound up essentially being thrown out of a 50 story building - and then being shot while falling. This is just a taste of what can happen to you with unauthorized excursions into The Matrix.

Anyway, it's likely that you have poor distribution because your dosing number look fairly standard, and your lighting is by no means over the top. There is a huge gap in the center of your spraybar configuration so you might want to extend both sides till they meet in the middle. Do a good trim to get better flow and just double your KNO3 and KH2PO4. 

200L is getting up there in size. Did you say you have 2000LPH of rated filtration? That should be enough. Try disabling one of your bulbs for the moment. Have you considered using 2 external CO2 reactors? That really does make a huge difference. Excel is expensive, but you can also do daily supplement of this in the morning to help compensate for the CO2 issues.

And please, stay out of The Matrix. 8) 

Cheers,


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## stujo (12 Sep 2010)

Hi Clive
Thanks as usual for your comments.  It was already on my list to look at extending my spray bars.  Is it possible to buy longer ones or do I simply have to add/connect up a piece of suitably drilled tube - should I make it one long spraybar served by both filters or keep them separate (but longer).  I had read up about external reactors and saw a video on YouTube - several comments about them working well but the tank always looking "misty" and apparently because of this some users seem to have gone back to internal diffusers - can you recommend anything.  Oh yes I am using 2 off Classic 2217's so my rated flow is 2000 lph Cheers - Stuart


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## ceg4048 (13 Sep 2010)

Hi Stu,
          Well, I mean you really need to forget about all those comments about mist this, and mist that. I would rather have mist issue and excellent CO2 than poor CO2 and no mist issue, get it? Those comments divert your attention and take your eyes off the prize. Your problem is an inability to get good CO2 saturation/districution, so you need to fix that problem first and foremost, then, later if you have a mist issue then worry about crossing that bridge when you get to it. In any case the mist issue happens when you use an underpowered filter which does not dissolve the gas properly.

You can ditch those Eheim spraybars and get a set of Fluval bars which come in packs of 2 (I'm sure there are other brands as well). They are joined by a small black rubber hose which is included. Here is what they look like installed:





Definitely separate them. You will have problems such as destructive interference if you gang the two filters to either end of the same spraybar run. If you don't want to build your own reactors then you can use a pair of Aquamedic AM500 or even two AM1000 but they are a little on the expensive side. People seem to be enamoured with the Up Atomizer though I've never used it so can't comment on it's effectiveness. You can also make your own spraybars by just buying PVC or any rigid plastic tubing and copying the hole patter from your Eheim bars.

Cheers,


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