# Plant fert cause finrot?



## ZonkedBarely (5 Jan 2015)

Hi all,

I have a quite densely 10g planted tank consisting of:

Java Fern
Java moss
Crypts
Anubias

I dose Ei, but all in one go at the start of the week and excel daily. I have a Betta splenden, bought 3 months ago.

Just yesterday I noticed a substantial amount of fin missing from his back. This surprised me as I've not noticed it before but it looks a lot like fin rot. Would dumping too much fert into the water column cause this? I'm thinking not, but have read that poor water conditions bring it on in most cases.

I do just over a 50% water change per week, so confused as to how this happened, unless he had it when he was bought and it's just happened slowly over time. Not sure how fast rot occurs?

It must be said I never deep vac the gravel only wave the vac across the top. I only have the crypts planted in the gravel. Maybe this is an issue?

Anyone have some good advice on how to proceed with this, would adding salt to the tank work?

Cheers in advance


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## Martin in Holland (5 Jan 2015)

All I know is that fin rot can occur over night and often caused by pH to high (or to low....still confused about those)


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## Lindy (5 Jan 2015)

Hard water can cause betta splendens fins to disintegrate over time. They are a soft water fish with not much immune system so very prone to disease,  especially if they are the longest fin varieties.


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## roadmaster (5 Jan 2015)

I doubt the fertilizers are contributing to the problem unless way over EI levels which begs the question why use more than suggested EI levels.?
Water parameter's are ?? for ammonia,nitrites.
Temp? /Food's?
50% weekly water change is good practice in my view,so long as new water added is not too far off from  that in the tank with respect to temp,pH.
Might try reducing food to once every couple day's and store five gallons of water for water changes which could be heated before using if you have an extra heater layin around,or can purchase one.
Cannot comment on effects the excel may or may not have but would not over do it  if it were me.
If tank is open top,and temps above the tank are too much cooler than inside,this could be stressful for laybrynth species who occasionally take air from the surface.
Some say that this has more of a negative effect on young fishes before laybrynth organ is fully developed but maybe something to consider?
Would see that no one else is also feeding the fish,no little hands with access to the tank, only use tools,nets,bucket's dedicated to the tank,be mindful of where hands have been before placing them in the tank,throw out expired foods and replace with variety of foods as opposed to just one or two.
Once had a cat that was good about reaching just a paw into the tank and trying to curl it's claw, and scoop out fishes.
Took me while to catch on to this,but noticed some damage to fishes backs where the cat had tried but failed to skewer it's victim.
My two cent's.


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## ZonkedBarely (5 Jan 2015)

Thanks guys, no definitely not going over the recommended EI levels, I'm actually using amounts scaled down for the 10gallon based on the calculations done by Ceg in the EI sticky thread.
I'll be honest I do not test the water as I've heard the test kits can be quite inaccurate, but when I was testing using the API liquid test kit, the nitrates in the tank were very high - Ammonia/Nitrite was always undetectable. I figured nitrate would be high because of all the ferts that get put in there for the plants. 

Temp sits at 25C and I match that with the water I replace, I do not match the PH though. It's entirely possible that the PH coming from the tap could be different to the week old tank water, but I've never wanted to buy products that alter the PH of the water.

The Excel goes in as per instructions on the bottle - 1ml daily but haven't heard of it causing fin issues on fish before. The tank has a condensation tray and metal lid that houses the light, so the temp of the air stays warm underneath.

I can definitely say that I'm the only one maintaining the tank and feeding the fish and am using food that's just 3months old and still in date. 

I live in a part of the UK that has very hard water, so maybe this explains it Idcgroomer, as far as I can tell the rest of his fins look ok it's just his pectoral fin that's effected so far. Maybe I'll try and find a way to soften my water.

I just fail to believe that the water quality is so bad that it brought on fin rot, there are so many plants stuffed in there it looks like a bit of a jungle and I have a sponge filter running which I regularly clean. - This leaves me with the gravel or the hardness of the water I guess. I'm still suspect of the gravel though, as I said, never deep vac it so perhaps it's leeching rubbish into the water column? It's got a layer of tropica mud at the base capped with around 2 inches of gravel, I'll get a siphon in there and see if I can reduce some of the buried build up.

Are there any medications etc that can be used safely with plants or shall I just move him to a container and treat the problem there.


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## roadmaster (5 Jan 2015)

Nitrate readings with EI would pose no harm for they are readings from the mineral salt KNO3 and are not dosed at very high levels.
Nitrates as result of decaying plant matter or foods,or fish waste,are another matter in my view for they must first go through biological oxidation from ammonia to nitrites and finally nitrates.
Is this process that is hard on many species.
KNO3 does not need to go through biological oxidation.
For what it's worth,I have a couple tanks that have been set up for a few years, and I have never vaccumed the substrate.
Just careful as to how much food I am offering.


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## ZonkedBarely (5 Jan 2015)

Thanks roadmaster that was helpful, fish food never touches the substrate, I always give enough that he will always eat.
I'm going to pull out my testing kit and check Ammonia and Nitrites, one thing that has occurred to me, is that one evening about a week ago I saw a milky cloudy haze in the tank which disappeared the next day, almost the exact same kind you see in new tank setups as its cycling - perhaps my sponge filter crashed which caused an increase in bacteria. I'm going to up the water changes to twice a week and see what reading I get on the test kit and go from there. Thanks


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## Lindy (5 Jan 2015)

You really need to raise the temp for your betta 28 degrees being better for them. Catappa/indian almond leaves have beneficial qualities fir the water or you can get black water extract. I use one that doesn't discolour the water at all. It will help heal the torn fins and then maintain his health.


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## ZonkedBarely (6 Jan 2015)

Thanks Idc, I'm slowly starting to notch up the temp on the heater and have baffled the filter slightly to relax the current in the tank. It doesn't look like the fins are getting any worse so I'll leave the salt treatment for now. I did some tests on the water and both Ammonia and Nitrites were undetectable by the liquid test kit. Do you have any good sources for the black water extract?


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## PARAGUAY (7 Jan 2015)

Hi Fordy, I think fin- rot is one of those just can happen at times sort of things.I had it with a Black Widow tested the parameters water ok.The Black Widow seemed ok and I watched carefully for in case an infection developed but the fin grew back. Later same scenario with a Cardinal,tested again all results ok.On observation I had noticed one the Penguin Tetras harassing other fish,it was in a group of six,too small a group I think and this one had taken to nipping all around,everything except the Siamese Algae Eater was just to quick.So I removed the penguins to another tank and increased numbers(14 in group now, a bit of sparring at feeding but no problems) If it is a fish on its own it could have just damaged it after maybe startled. If your worried about the water I would go to the most rep. aquarium stockists in your local area and discuss what they use whether RO or not for their Fighters . I have used E-Sha previously for another issue and found it worked ok but I think as said medications are the last resort.Tetra do a BlackWater product.


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## Lindy (9 Jan 2015)

I use 'easylife catappa x ' blackwater extract.


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