# denisoni barbs



## Nick16 (24 Jun 2014)

Hi all, 

Is a 4x2x2 big enough for denisoni barbs? 
Tank will have good flow with 2 wavemakers and 2 ex1200's but i might upgrade one to an fx5/6


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## allan angus (24 Jun 2014)

not kept them but 50 galls seems to be the average recommended aquarium size so u are well in lol


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## Nick16 (24 Jun 2014)

Wow i wouldnt touch them with a 50 gal! 
Im unsure weather 110g  is big enough in reality, because of their size and shoaling speed a 50g would be rediculous! 

My issue is the 4ft length really, but i have got nice depth to the tank

Cheers!


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## Edvet (24 Jun 2014)

They can be 10 cm length, and fast swimmers, I would aim for a large tank.


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## allan angus (24 Jun 2014)

120 galls is not a small tank in my book but i agree the lenth of the tank could be longer for these fish as i said not kept them myself but have looked them up on a few forums ( would love to keep them ! )


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## James O (24 Jun 2014)

If the tank is fairly open so they can swim laps or figure 8 it should be okay while they're small but I'd recommend at least 6ft minimum.  They move like they look - torpedoes and can cross a tank in seconds


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## roadmaster (24 Jun 2014)

Would keep glass tops on tank with these fish.


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## Andy Thurston (24 Jun 2014)

roadmaster said:


> Would keep glass tops on tank with these fish.


Me too my covers rattle a couple of times per week from jumpers and there 6" above the water.

One of my lfs had a 4' x 2' x 2' tank with about 30 large dennisonii for about 3 years. After reading this thread i'm not sure if was big enough because in the shop tank they just hovered not really moving much but the 5 adults i have in with my clown loach are very active even though thats only a 350l corner tank, perhaps turning circle is more important than length.


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## Nick16 (2 Sep 2014)

I think 30 is probably the main reason really. 
I was thinking of keeping 6-10 as well as a few rainbows. The tank is 450 litres.


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## Nick16 (15 Dec 2014)

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but the move towards a new setup is taking place.

I understand they like a river setup, with wood and rocks and a decent flow which i have. However im planning on not having any substrate in the tank. Would this prove an issue?
Ideally i would like to use plenty of wood to get that knarly aged river feeling.

Furthermore, a lack of substrate will mean no live plants (i could consider java fern and anubias, however with no substrate to eventually stick their roots into, they have struggled in the past)

Ideal tank mates? I would like a dither fish shoal, perhaps cardinals or harlequins or black tetras (ideas? - colour clashes?)

Then something more substantial.
Rainbows - bosemanis or perhaps the smaller M.praecox? - (will be too much silver in the tank i feel)


Thanks


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## James O (15 Dec 2014)

Why no substrate?

No dither fish needed.

Something +7cm but not much likes the heavy flow.  You want something for the mid & top of the tank


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## Nick16 (15 Dec 2014)

I prefer ultra clean tanks that require very minimal upkeep to fit in with my lifestyle. 
I make an exception for the CRS as it is negated by the fact they dont make a mess! 

What would you suggest for the higher parts of the tank?


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## James O (15 Dec 2014)

Personally I think that having no substrate and no plants isn't going to be a particularly healthy environment.  

Fish don't live in ultra clean environments


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## Lindy (17 Dec 2014)

Tie the java fern to the wood so they can all be lifted out together if you are syphoning the bottom. If you don't  put gravel in you are going to have to syphon out poo so why not do a river sand type substrate and syphon it?  Bare bottom tanks don't  look nice at all and look dirty quickly.


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## Jose (17 Dec 2014)

You dont need a substrate to keep healthy plants. Just follow Tom Barrs low tech aproach. You dose once a week some macros and micros and thats it. Personally Im like you, I dont like substrates because I dont like doing two water changes a week in the first weeks. Ive kept all my planted tanks without a substrate perfectly fine.


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## Nick16 (17 Dec 2014)

I think this will be the best way. I have masses of wood so i think i will get some java fern and anubias (various types) 

I always find they grow best when they can dip their roots into a substrate. 

Have kept a malawi cichlid tank bare bottomed which looked fine with poo, and that was heavily stocked. Water changes were once every 2 weeks. 

River sand might be an option... tell me more about this stuff


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## Jose (17 Dec 2014)

Nick16 said:


> Have kept a malawi cichlid tank bare bottomed which looked fine with poo, and that was heavily stocked. Water changes were once every 2 weeks.


Fish poo isnt enough and it istnt a balanced diet for the plants either. Ferts, ferts and ferts. Read Tom Barrs stuff.


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## Nick16 (17 Dec 2014)

lol i didnt mean for the plants, i meant in terms of cleanliness as mentioned in a previous comment.
if i can keep a bare bottomed malawi tank clean, im sure a few community fish wont be an issue!

to be honest, 'Ferts, ferts and ferts' is the wrong approach. im after a low tech approach with minimal 'ferts'. due to the depth of the tank, to provide enough light to reach the bottom well would require a high wattage and then in turn cause me to up co2 and ferts which im not wanting.

im aiming for anubias and ferns dotted on wood, with perhaps the odd plant like vallis or c.balansae, - but im not sure the latter would do so well being a heavier root feeder.

im considering laying a small base of say 5 litres of aquabasis mixed with some osmocote, and then just cap it with some coarse sand like unipac fiji.

beneficial for the plants, nice for any bottom dwellers too.


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## Jose (17 Dec 2014)

Nick16 said:


> lol i didnt mean for the plants, i meant in terms of cleanliness as mentioned in a previous comment.
> if i can keep a bare bottomed malawi tank clean, im sure a few community fish wont be an issue!


Hehe sorry about that then. I got carried away by the flow of the thread. Its seems like people are still afraid of ferts. Ferts arent the only thing of course but its a must whether it comes from fish food or from dry salts. Im not saying only quantity but also frecuency, quality etc.


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## Nick16 (17 Dec 2014)

Yeah i guess its quite scientific, especially EI to newbies
Having been there and got the T-shirt years ago il be honest that ive forgotten alot of stuff but simple fert regiemes arent difficult.

Im just after a very minimal approach.
Lower light levels. Have a 4x54w T5 set up, but i can just use the two bulbs so no issues there. And il just dose liquid carbon and ferts as im really not aiming for another IAPLC entry! The co2 bottles shall remain dusty i feel!

My plan is to rehome the BNs into the 140l CRS tank for a few weeks / months whilst i decide what to do.
I will lose the filter bacteria unfortunately from my 2 ex1200s but i have one running on the shrimp tank if i need to swap a sponge over to re-colonise. I will just add the fish as and when


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## Lindy (17 Dec 2014)

Edvet has used river sand in his low tech white cube and it looks nice. Probably similar to unipac natural coarse sand. I have used silver sand in the liquorice gourami breeding tanks just to cover the bottom and it looks much nicer as it lightens an otherwise dimly lit and tanin stained tank.


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## Lindy (17 Dec 2014)




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## Nick16 (17 Dec 2014)

Lovely looking tank bud! I do like the stained water appearance  

Well tonight i ordered 
5l bag of nutri base 
12.5kg unipac coarse fiji sand
Litre of ferts
Litre of co2 

So the balls rolling now. 

It may not seem alot of substrate for a 4x2 ft base, but i plan to keep the substrate very shallow, if i have to order some more fiji, i will! I dont want alot of nutri base, just a sprinkling with some osmocote. 

Will forage for some more wood, hopefully get some more 3-4ft pieces again. 

Once complete il try to get some surplus plants from the forum


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## Lindy (18 Dec 2014)

I wouldn't have bothered with the nutrient base if you are only having a thin layer of sand. It stands a good chance of being disturbed and then ending up in the main water column. The stained water is down to....


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