# caimen lizard



## paul hoskins (17 Mar 2015)

hello all       I'm about to start the build a large  rain forest viv and going to build a live tank in the viv.the live tank will be 1800 L 800W AND 800H .im building this for a caiman lizard ,they are 50 percent aquatic ,want to build it the way you guys build  tanks plants filters co2 the whole 9 yards ,,,,have no idea where to start soil gravel plants .. got to make sure the plants won't harm the the caiman . the tank will also have a series of smaller pools moving down the tank rolling into the main tank ,high humidity needed .. where do i start with the planting      regards to all paul


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## EnderUK (18 Mar 2015)

I don't really think that CO2 is suitable for most vivariums as you'll have to be doing large water changes. Their are a couple of guys that have terriums/vivariums on this forum I'm sure they can help with specifics. My guess is that lighting will be a major factor with the light being on the high side. However with the waterfalls you might get away with it.


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## Lindy (18 Mar 2015)

So is that 1800mm/180cm?  I had to google the lizard and it says grows 2-4 feet so won't this enclosure be too small? I suspect the lizard will damage the plants just by walking over them. Probably better just to have a rock pool over hung by jungle looking plants. I think the reason most folk don't do this is the difficulties of keeping it clean.


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## Lindy (18 Mar 2015)

Re-read and is it just the tank that is 180cm?  Sounds like the enclosure  will take up a whole room! I'd still go with rock pools over hung rather than lots of submerged plants. Anubias are the obvious  choice for submerged /emersed  growth.


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## Edvet (18 Mar 2015)

I wouldn't aim for a high tech/high light tank part: 1) CO2 being heavier than air could collect and kill your landanimal, 2) high tech tanks take a lot of maintenance and need daily pottering around in it, not sure wether that is doable ( fisically reaching everywhere, and or disturbing to animal) 3) high tech tanks being very large are even more difficult to get good circulation en CO2 distribution, so they need plenty hardware around it, this might clash with the vivarium part.4) Not sure wether the lizard will poop in the water and or disturb the layout with swimming, thus "kicking"plants out of the substrate.

I would make the vivarium part first and aim for a low tech planted tank. Make sure the filtering is impeccable ( you may need to clear the excrements with filtering, not sure if the lizard prefers pooping in the water (like snakes often do)). If all is running ok, then focus on the tank part. With large vivaria you'll need plenty spots anyway thus you can keep light levels down in the water, giving more time to let a low tech setup grow.


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## alto (18 Mar 2015)

This video has a great enclosure & swimming area for the caiman lizards (in their care) - after watching this caiman swim, perhaps a pond style would suit better than any sort of "planted tank"; assuming that the tank under consideration is 1.8m x 0.8m, this still seems small for an adult caiman, no real room to actually swim ...


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## Rahms (18 Mar 2015)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Caiman_Lizard

"These lizards can reach up to 4 ft (1.2 m) long and weigh up to 10 lb (4.5 kg)."

1.2m lizard in a 1.8m enclosure. it'll struggle to even turn around surely? This sounds cruel and poorly thought out

the wiki also mentions that they dig


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## Lindy (18 Mar 2015)

alto said:


> This video has a great enclosure & swimming area for the caiman lizards (in their care) - after watching this caiman swim, perhaps a pond style would suit better than any sort of "planted tank"; assuming that the tank under consideration is 1.8m x 0.8m, this still seems small for an adult caiman, no real room to actually swim ..


That is a great video. I'm not sure how you could build something like that in your house? To swim it looks like you'd need a pond like Rahms said. Most lizards I see are kept in small(in relation to the animal)spaces with maybe a branch or something so I hope you are building something seriously big where the animal can exercise both body and mind.


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## paul hoskins (18 Mar 2015)

Hi all   thanks so much for input ,i might not have explain my self very well ,this is just a dip pool for the caiman want to make him feel at home . the dip pool is going in a floor to ceiling viv about 1800 wide 3.8 metres long .. building a mini mountain with rock pools flowing down into the main tank there will be a tree coming out of the water going up to the top of the tank .i understand the caiman might dig it up . they are calm lizards we might  be ok ,I'm willing to try …1st what soil would recommend ,2nd what you say is the strongest carpet plant .going to leave the tank for 3months before the caiman is in ..want to plant plants in the rock pools coming down the mountain . going to put a low level slim line led bank of lights close to the water then covered with bark to hide it .at top of the tree it will be hot basking area ,,,what plants are strong like heat and a lot of humidity ….C02 you have fish in these tanks ,why not a a aquatic lizard .ive built rain forest tanks before using plastic plants , i just want have a go at doing it with real plants    cheers paul


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## Mick.Dk (18 Mar 2015)

I have build and planted Zoo facilities for SA caimans , Cuban crocks, fishing Gavial, Nile crocks and banded Lizards (just to name well-known species) - and they have all, without exeption, been Bast...s to flora on their facility. Musa (bananas), heliconia and other huge, fastgrowing plants were actually the best at staying alive. We used a lot of dead trees, covering them in philodendrons and epiphytes (Bromeliads, ferns and Rhipsalis, mostly), but ended up building artificial ones from metal-grit and concrete - and cover those in epiphytes, instead.
The water parts were impossible to inhabit with plants - exept for Pistia(Water Lettuce) and Eichornia(Water Hyacinth). Trust me, I had your dreams, too!!
   Your idea sounds fabulous......but I advise you to lower your ambitions, and aim for robust, easy maintainance on both interiour and choise of plants.
A little less fabulous, but well-working.....is better than aimig for the sky, ending with endless frustrations and an unsightly facility, in my opinion.


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## paul hoskins (18 Mar 2015)

Thanks Mick i understand what your saying ,just want the best for the caiman , so many people are not understanding the caimans needs ,just a bowl of water in a tank is not me . will carry on with the build but will go easy on the plants .i want to build a work of  art not just another tank ,the living tanks are amazing ,,would you use soil on the bottom ,what about plants out of the water …going for big swim pool filter , one of local shops reckon we should be able to keep the water clean enough to drink ,,,,so no co2 ,not to many plants in the water ,what about moss on the rocks ,   cheers paul


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## Mick.Dk (19 Mar 2015)

I would keep the "pool" clean, actually - maybe some gravel and/or sand, combined with some nice, rounded rocks. This will be easy to maintain and look good at all times. If green algae apoear, this will be like in natural habitat, actually. Maybe a few floating plants.
Remember; very, very few places in nature resemble our planted tanks even remotely. Plants aren't looking fabulous,in habitat - it's a war out there!!
   For the facility, I would defenitely go for the suggested "overhanging, jungle-look plants". Be asured, your Lizard will climb everything !! Even crocodiles do !! So choose a lot of robust, fastgrowing vines, that will recover quickly, when torn apart. Philodendron species are designed for this, and will adapt to allmost all conditions. Many ferns and some Bromeliads are quite tolerant and reproductive, too - Those are epiphytes and should be tied to wood- and rockwork in the facility. A lot of common potted houseplants will behave like weed in such a facility, and can be tugged in, where the Lizard is less passing - this will be obvious in time ( even the best facility creates "stereotype" behaviour, but the good ones less of it !! )


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## alto (19 Mar 2015)

I'm with Mick - if you want to try plants in the "pond", go with pots etc or try some modification of the Wabi Kusa, this way you can have a set of replacements going in the propagator at all times 

I'm so pleased at the effort & understanding you've put into your plans for keeping this lizard.

Caiman crocodiles were a *hot* item (locally) for awhile  ...


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## paul hoskins (19 Mar 2015)

Thanks guys I'm taking this all in . what type of floating plants , also the mini mountain with its rock pools can we make them green in any way . i had it in my  mind to use layers of slat around the pools bedded down on soil with maybe some plants growing out from between the slate . What do you think


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