# First low tech - advice needed



## Sacha (7 Oct 2018)

Hi all, 

I've just ordered a brand new Juwel Rio 240 and intend to set it up as a low-tech. 

Some of you will remember I owned a high-tech Rio 125 for several years. A couple of years ago I got rid of the Co2 because it wasn't helping my situation at all, and switched to liquid carbon instead. I continued doing 50% weekly water changes etc. 

It is my intention that the new tank will eventually replace the 125 and be an ultra-low maintenance, beautiful low-tech planted tank. I have been reading around and I am pretty sure I know what I am doing in terms of planting heavily from the outset, low light (by my calculations the Rio 240 comes equipped with 1.1 wpg LEDs so ideal for low tech). 

Where I could use some help in particular is in choosing a substrate and scaping the tank. 


I want a substrate that is going to be good for the lifetime of the tank (many years) and never need replacing. 

I want something clean that doesn't give me dirt particles floating around the tank. 

I'd prefer one single layer of substrate rather than several. 

I'm planning on filling the tank with the usual low-tech suspects (crypts, swords, java fern, anubias, fast-growing stem plants like ludwigia & hygrophilia). But maybe also some Staurogyne Repens if I can make it grow. 

Any advice? 

Finally I'm still unsure about water changes. Having read this excellent tutorial: http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/ 
I am under the impression that I won't need to change the water at all?! Or maybe every few weeks at the most? 

How can this possibly be correct, I have been breaking my ****s for years doing weekly 50% water changes with pure RO - was this really all a waste of time when I could have just gone low-tech from the very beginning and drastically reduced my maintenance schedule? 

Can someone confirm that I actually won't need to do water changes if I plant very heavily from the outset and fertilise only sparingly (once a week)? 

Any advice greatly appreciated. 

Cheers,

Sacha


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## tam (7 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> Finally I'm still unsure about water changes.



People have been arguing over water changes forever  Zero water changes is tough because to achieve that long term you'd need to exactly balance what goes in (food/ferts) with what comes out (plant material) .... odds of you getting that balance exactly right are pretty slim. It can work and will work for some length of time but not indefinitely. At some point you'll run out of something or something will built up in excess and it will all go wrong. 

50% changes are definitely needed if you are dosing EI ferts and CO2 as that speeds everything up

Low tech, I would go for some water changes but if you find 50% a week a lot of work you can certainly cut back e.g. 20-25% a week or every other week do a 50%, or you might do 10% a week and then every third week 50% - it's flexible. Partly water changes depends on you tank e.g. if you are very low stocked and not adding a lot of ferts then less/lower water changes will keep you at the same point as someone higher stocked with slightly more frequent changes. Topping up with RO helps but you don't have to use RO for the water changes if tap is easier.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (7 Oct 2018)

I think people have experimented with the no water changes at all with mixed results. There's quite an extensive thread in here somewhere regarding water changes. Running low tech is mainly about finding balance with your lighting so the plants never really hit that point where co2 becomes an issue and using plants that are better suited to these situations. I think most people running low tech still dose around 10 percent of the EI values and do some water changing now and again. @dw1305 doesn't use co2 at all and low tech stuff is his thing but I think he still changes a bit of water weekly. As for substrate if it were me and going long term I think I would still use a planting substrate like Tropica but some people use aquatic compost under gravel with good results but as you want just one type I'd go Tropica.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (7 Oct 2018)

Also, look into the Duck Weed Index which I find quite effective. Use floating plants that aren't co2 limited as they get co2 from the atmosphere as a canary. I generally dose a little bit of every fert weekly and keep an eye on the floaters, if they start showing signs of deficiency add a little bit more for a couple of weeks, observe and repeat until you find a place where it stops happening. I also use a TDS pen so I see roughly what the TDS the plants seem to be doing alright and try and keep it around that point. If the TDS starts falling away up the dose a little.


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## Sacha (7 Oct 2018)

Thanks for the replies... 

There are countless guides online and threads in the 'low tech' forum explaining how with the low-tech method you 'don't need to do water changes'. For years I have been doing 50% weekly as I have been using EI ferts & liquid carbon. But this guide (http://www.sudeepmandal.com/hobbies/planted-aquarium/low-tech-planted-tank-guide/) based on Tom Barr's website, suggests weekly fertilising and water changes only a few times a year... 

Which Tropica substrate are you referring to because there are several? 

Thanks.


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## Tim Harrison (7 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> Where I could use some help in particular is in choosing a substrate and scaping the tank.


Just use Tropica AS, you'll still need to dose to keep it viable long term, though.



Sacha said:


> suggests weekly fertilising and water changes only a few times a year...


I reckon that's fine if you have a largish, biologically stable, heavily planted tank, with a relatively low bioload, and you've gained a pretty good idea about the minimum fertz dosing regime required to keep things healthy without raising TDS too much.
Little and often would still be best though IMO, even under the above scenario; I'd change at least 20% every other a week or so.


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## foxfish (7 Oct 2018)

I really don’t know the answer...... perhaps not performing water changes is healthier than doing water changes? 

However, not carrying out water changes for a year, sounds more like an experiment to see if anything can survive, rather than a fishkeeper doing his best to give his fish a nice home?


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## tam (7 Oct 2018)

The trouble with a lot of articles is they treat all glass boxes full of water as the same and fail to mention how many different factors go into what works including (but not limited to):

What's in the water you start with - the hardness and the minerals that make that up
What's in the water you top off evaporation with
The substrate in your tank - including depth, compactness and ability to 'store and exchange nutrients'
The species and volume of plants you put in your tank, whether they are emersed or not, and the rate they grow (itself influenced by a whole load of factors)
Lighting - both artificial and ambient - intensity and duration
The fertilisers you use, what they contain, how frequently you use them (and whether you actually do it as often as you plan)
The fish you have - size, quantity, metabolic rate and feeding types
The food you feed you fish - both type, quantity and frequency
Hardscape - rocks, wood etc. that may leach, absorb or react 
Temperature - can effect decomposition rates and fish feeding habits etc.
The environment around the tank - temp, humidity, air quality

So when you are trying to copy something someone has done successfully it's a lot more complicated than just asking how often they change water and doing the same.


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## dw1305 (7 Oct 2018)

Hi all,





Sacha said:


> I want a substrate that is going to be good for the lifetime of the tank (many years) and never need replacing.


If you really wanted to try no water change, you would need a substrate with some carbonate content, because nitrification will use up the carbonate reserve, and you won't be replenishing it with water changes. 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I think most people running low tech still dose around 10 percent of the EI values and do some water changing now and again. @dw1305 doesn't use co2 at all and low tech stuff is his thing but I think he still changes a bit of water weekly.


I do, I change some water even if the tanks don't have any fish in them. I don't add fertilisers on a regular basis (because I use the <"Duckweed Index">), but I think @AverageWhiteBloke's "_~10% of EI_" estimate is probably in the right ball park.

There is further discussion of water changes in @JMorgan's <"Understanding adaptations to ....."> thread.

cheers Darrel


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## alto (7 Oct 2018)

Just invest in a Python type system & water changes are a breeze 
- note I just start the syphon the old fashioned way & gravity drain to yard or toilet depending on rain ... then adjust tap mix to a suitable temp a few degrees cooler than tank & refill, add Prime etc for entire tank volume when using this method 

I’ve played around with limited water changes, plants can do awesome with just top up for months (Spec 19 LED version 1 running with Tropica AS Powder & occasional Tropica fertilizer application, even less frequent Seachem Excel dose)

I did the same for a fish system when (unusual) hot dry spring - summer (& extreme smoke) meant water looked & smelled questionable out of tap ... after the fall rains began I started up again with water changes 
I didn’t lose any fish through those no change months (over 3 months) but fish activity dropped & I noticed a big difference with the return of weekly large water changes 
Interestingly tank parameters showed very little drift in terms of easily measured Nitrogen’s, GH, KH etc over that time, pH had dropped to 5.8-6.0 vs usual 6.0-6.4 
Tank was lightly stocked with _S vaillanti_ - as some fish notes (including seriously fish) recommended limited water changes with _Sphaerichthys_ species it seemed worth a go 
I won’t do this method again with these fish, there’s no doubt they enjoy syphon chasing & the “new” water


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## Edvet (8 Oct 2018)

Regarding no waterchanges: when i came in the hobby "old water"was still a thing. The older the water in the tank the better. 
Today we think there will be build up of metabolites in the water which need removing now and then. Filters can help, but can't remove/alter everything. The slower the growth and the lighter the fish/animal load the fewer toxic metabolites will be produced. So again like all tanks it will be a balancing act, though i think some waterchanges will enhance health.
I have alway used regular riversand in all my tanks, this wll stay good "forever" ( not to fine, mixed size from 1-5 mm) I do like my trumpet snails to keep my sand healthy. Adding some clay under it might help.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (8 Oct 2018)

I can't really see the point of not changing some water, the benefits far out weigh the negatives in my mind.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## ian_m (8 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> (by my calculations the Rio 240 comes equipped with 1.1 wpg LEDs so ideal for low tech).


Major bad assumptions for a start. Watts per gallon is for T5HO tubes and US gallon, not LED's and UK gallons.

The 240 LED's are 6670 Lumens. An equivalent length T5HO tube is 3200lumens per tube, two tubes 6400lumens.

240 litres is 64 US gallons. Thus your are 2Watts per gallon, immediately into high(ish) level lights.

Another way looking at is, 240 tank height is 20inches, two T5HO tubes (equivalent to your LED), well and truly places into high light level.






So CO2, EI ferts, weekly water changes are a necessity of keeping plants in this tank. Or reduce light levels. Is there a dimmer for the Jewel LEDs ?


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## dw1305 (8 Oct 2018)

Hi all, 





Edvet said:


> when i came in the hobby "old water"was still a thing. The older the water in the tank the better.


<"Same for me">. It sounds bizarre now, but there wasn't any internet and you were reliant on what  you read in the few books available and advice from experienced fish keepers. 

cheers Darrel


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## sparkyweasel (8 Oct 2018)

Yep, and you could talk to old guys who could remember the old days, when people used to change the water.


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## foxfish (8 Oct 2018)

Well I can go back for around 45 years of water changing!
Rain water was the big thing to use in planted tanks, I followed the Dupla method and that was 25% a week.
If I ran short of rain water, I would raid my mums water butt, then my brothers and neighbours if we had a dry spell.
Ha ha the good old days.


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## Sacha (8 Oct 2018)

Many thanks for all the replies. 

ian-m, I will not be using Co2 on this tank. I don't know if the lights are dimmable - I assume they are not. 

From reading all of the links Darrel provided, I think I will opt for 20-25% water changes, every two weeks. 

How much substrate would I want in a 240 litre tank? And can anyone recommend something cheaper than Tropica AquaSoil because a quick calculation suggests I would be spending around £140 on soil? 

Thanks again.


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## foxfish (8 Oct 2018)

I just used cat litter on my last low tech.


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## Siege (8 Oct 2018)

Are you using ro water? Only ask as unsure from your post.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (8 Oct 2018)

foxfish said:


> I just used cat litter on my last low tech.



I'll second that. I have a 5gallon fermenting bin full of the stuff which I just rinse and re-use for impromptu small tanks and scapes. I think it was about £3/4 for 25 ltrs. never had any issues with it.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (8 Oct 2018)

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/262681114   I think I used the low dust version though if you can get it. Needs washed a million times then wash again for first time use but after that you can keep it indefinitely. My next low tech I'm planning on capping soil with it.


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

Siege said:


> Are you using ro water? Only ask as unsure from your post.


Yes I do use RO because my water here is extremely hard.

Having read this post: 

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-soil-substrate-or-dirted-planted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/

I am thinking of using aquatic soil / compost topped with a layer of medium sand? Any thoughts on this?


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## ian_m (9 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> Yes I do use RO because my water here is extremely hard.


What difference does hard water make ??? Fish don't care, plants don't care. Unless you are breeding sensitive fish or have identified some strange plant that only grows in soft water, work with the water you get from you tap and keep things simple.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ro-tap-water-changes-best-way.54752/#post-536838


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

I have to disagree that fish don't care about hardness.

"It is true that most tetras except for a few can adapt to harder and more alkaline conditions, but they won't show their best colours and may not show natural behaviour as a result. They'll live but they won't thrive." 

- would you disagree with this comment? 

For reference my tank is kept around 100ppm with pH around 7. Out of the tap KH is around 15, GH over 20, TDS around 280, pH around 8.2.


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## ian_m (9 Oct 2018)

My water is 22GH and my tetras & cardinal tetras (and all my other fish) seem to live for ever and have absolutely no colouring issues. Tetras in particular really stand out (with correct lighting) making them absolutely crap about blending into the greenery of the plants.

I have never heard of Tetra's requiring any particular water hardness, mine don't seem to care.

My plants don't seem to have issues either, once settled in, a weekly trim is an essential requirement for all my plants.


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## Tim Harrison (9 Oct 2018)

I agree with Ian, take a look at one of Dave's tanks at Aquarium Gardens, very hard water and I've never seen Cardinals look so healthy or colourful...



On the subject of substrate, I'd definitely go for aquatic compost, you can also mix in 25-50% peat if you like. Tropica also do a similar product which is used in a similar way, and does a similar job, but again it's more bucks https://tropica.com/en/plant-care/substrate/ so you might as well use the much cheaper compost.


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

Thanks all. In this case I might gradually transition from RO to tap water and closely monitor the fishes' health & activity  

So I think I will go for aquatic compost topped with sand... Does anyone have any favourite compost? And will a thin layer of sand block the roots from reaching the nutrients? I think I read that somewhere...


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

P.S. what are the advantages of using peat moss? I just ordered 20L of the Westland Aquatic Compost. I think that will probably be enough for what I need.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (9 Oct 2018)

If your water is hard it can help to soften and acidify it slightly.


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

I thought we just established that neither plants nor fish care about hard water.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (9 Oct 2018)

They don't, but adding tannins and humic acids are beneficial to fish health over all especially if they originate from waters like that. I believe the likes of iron is more available to plants in acidic conditions. The tannins help detoxify heavy metals in the water so if you plan to go back to tap it may help. The softening and acidification is only very slight.


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## Sacha (9 Oct 2018)

So my tank arrived! 




 

****ing hopeless.


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## Lee iley (9 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> So my tank arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No way what a joke. They just get kicked about when in transit. I work in transport and see it all the time there is no respect for anything any more. Hopefully you will get it sorted.

Cheers lee


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## alto (9 Oct 2018)

How disappointing 

Should be no problem sorting the replacement (did you order from Juwel or local shop?)

Looking at Juwel site, the MultiLux LED seem to be basic linear array LED with no internal reflecting lens (eg Kessil uses 120degree lens & in the new A360X have switched out to an improved lens etc increasing intensity output) which in combination with the 55cm height of this tank, means you will have decidedly low - moderate PAR at the substrate 

You might contact Juwel & ask if they included a similar system at their Interzoo 2018 booth, that should provide a good starting point for what lighting level/plant species/growth you might expect 

Juwel slightly dated tutorial videos are worth watching (you’ll also find several Juwel Aquariums on Tropica’s Inspiration page) though most will use CO2 for speed of growth even with “easy” plants

Definitely switch over to tap water!

Note that most cardinals & tetras etc are tank bred, easiest acclimation is buying from a shop with similar tank conditions to your own water 

There are definitely species which do not thrive when kept in water parameters differing substantially from their natural habitat but these are seldom common in local shops (though some shops do offer soft water & hard water sections, eg my tap is very soft, most shops keep livebearers in water adjusted to higher pH & GH)
Water parameters often impact offspring sex ratios and survival rates, they can also affect natural fish behaviour 

Peat in tanks can be messy, instead I’d add a bag to your filter or pre-treat change water (well actually I’d not bother at all  )
You can add some in the soil layer below your fine gravel/coarse sand substrate - again you’ll see a similar approach on Tropica Inspiration page, Tropica Growth Substrate plus Råda sand (I belived George Farmer recently did a set up & video with this combination) ... if you want to use a commercial product 5l bag of a Tropica GS would be needed for this tank size, otherwise I’d recommend using mineralized soil (method in the tutorial)

Choose suitable plant species, plant densely from the outset, weekly large (50-70%) water changes while plants establish, then slow addition of livestock beginning with algae crew (shrimp, otos, snails) ...and it’s a breeze 
If you’ve a CO2 setup already, I’d add CO2 during the first few weeks, then taper off once plants are establsihed - it will just make everything go faster


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## Sacha (11 Oct 2018)

Update: they are sending a replacement aquarium and letting me keep the old one for spares / parts. Excellent service from Charterhouse Aquatics. 

Thanks for the advice Alto - very helpful. I have tested my tap water and it is over 400 TDS (around 420-440). I am very wary about using this for soft water fish. The consensus here is clearly that I don't need to be using RO, so I will give it a go nonetheless. 

I think I will forego the peat as it can be messy as you say. 

I have ordered some standard Aquatic soil, and will get some sand / gravel to cap it. I have always used pool sand but I am wondering whether to buy some gravel this time around as the plants will have an easier route to the soil if that makes sense... Is that correct?! 

Anyway the last thing I need to buy is the capping substrate and then I'm ready to get started! (As soon as the new tank arrives...)


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## ian_m (11 Oct 2018)

Now you have 4 LED tubes, as I assume they have let you keep the Juwel lighting unit from the broken tank, you could get one of these...
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/aq...iquatics-aqualumi-universal-4-tube-120cm.html

Rewire to take LED tubes and you will have a very very high light tank. I think the above 4 tube unit fits a Rio.


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## Sacha (11 Oct 2018)

am I going insane? Wasn't your previous post telling me I had too much light to run a low tech setup? How is doubling my light going to help me achieve my objective as outlined in my first post of setting up a low- maintenance, relatively self-sustaining tank?

In the past whenever i posted on this forum asking for help with algae problems, poor plant health, poor fish health, filter problems, or any other issue remotely related to fish keeping, the response I got was almost always the same:

"Too much light. 

Cheers, "

And now I'm being told to double my lighting!


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## ian_m (11 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> am I going insane


Yes, it will be far far far too much light . Even two LED tubes your tank is in high light region, even with your deep tank.

You need to think how you are going to lower the light levels to maybe 1/2 or even 1/3 of the Juwel supplied levels. Frosted plastic sheet, foil rings around the tube, dimmer etc etc.


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## Tim Harrison (11 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> I have always used pool sand but I am wondering whether to buy some gravel this time around as the plants will have an easier route to the soil if that makes sense... Is that correct?!


It's really up to you; whatever you find most aesthetically pleasing. Plants will push roots down through play sand, which I'm sure you know is very fine grained. 
If you want an active oxidised microzone, sand with around a 3mm grain size, give or take, is okay.


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## alto (12 Oct 2018)

ian_m said:


> Even two LED tubes your tank is in high light region, even with your deep tank.


 As a person with 55cm deep tanks,  I couldn’t disagree more 

- these are just not intense LEDs 
Juwel technical suppprt should be able to tell you which LEDs - wattage, intensity, light spectrum - are used in your model




Sacha said:


> In the past whenever i posted on this forum asking for help with algae problems, poor plant health, poor fish health, filter problems, or any other issue remotely related to fish keeping, the response I got was almost always the same:
> 
> "Too much light.



I have my extreme light - east facing window nano tanks with Tropica Aquarium Soil - the sun pours in from sunrise to noon ... never a sign of BBA, just various easily removed green algae’s - the typical brownish green algae which targets glass, a filamentous green algae which grows pretty much anywhere and is easily removed ... and it takes a month or more of completely ignoring these tanks for visible algae

If I actually keep the filter running & weekly water change with minimal maintenance, algae remains in that non-visible state 
Of course decent algae crew such as snails & shrimp are a significant help (otocinclus if tank is bigger)

My point is that minimal algae is about Balance
Many people come at it from a restriction of light or LOTS of flow but in my experience neither is a necessity ... nor a guarantee
Without sufficient light, plants can’t manufacture healthy leaves which I believe is one of the most important anti-algae factors
Once plants are established with good supporting root structure, strong stem & leafs, they can easily withstand “maintenance” challenges - that month of almost zero tank attention, forgot to turn lights on or off, erratic CO2 etc etc

As for substrate, look for one with mixed grain size, this will help prevent “tight packing”, good root growth from plants will also aerate substrate (& “move” compounds through it)
A deep banked substrate is not recommended with fine gravel/coarse sand as it packs so much more tightly than any aquarium soil



> standard Aquatic soil


check the nutrient analysis - if this is manufactured/sold for the pond market, it can have very high (& very soluble) nutrient levels


During setup -
Plant densely from the beginning, include some fast growing stems (remove gradually once slower growing plants are well established), dose lean nutrients, check tank daily & remove any damaged leafs, syphon out any melted leafs, daily dose Seachem Excel (or similar proprietary product), try to be “routine” (lights on/off at same time every day etc)


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## alto (12 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> have tested my tap water and it is over 400 TDS (around 420-440). I am very wary about using this for soft water fish.


going by local water reports, I raised (wild) Dicrossus filamentosus in 300TDS tap water, they had begun breeding (successful eggs to free swimming) when I lost all tank inhabitants following a routine water change - I’d passed the water maintenance crew less than a km away but didn’t even think about possible consequences


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## Sacha (14 Oct 2018)

alto said:


> going by local water reports, I raised (wild) Dicrossus filamentosus in 300TDS tap water, they had begun breeding (successful eggs to free swimming) when I lost all tank inhabitants following a routine water change - I’d passed the water maintenance crew less than a km away but didn’t even think about possible consequences



This is awful sorry to hear, did you ever find out what they'd done to the supply?! 



alto said:


> for substrate, look for one with mixed grain size, this will help prevent “tight packing”, good root growth from plants will also aerate substrate (& “move” compounds through it)
> A deep banked substrate is not recommended with fine gravel/coarse sand as it packs so much more tightly than any aquarium soil



Really helpful advice, thanks. So based on this I think I will go for Unipac Nordic 2-4mm gravel: 

https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/shop/aquatics/decoration/unipac/unipac-nordic-2-4mm-gravel-10kg 

What do you think? 

I think I am pretty clear on planting, livestock etc. I am going to plant very densely from the outset with a photoperiod of about 6 hours, gradually increasing to 8 hours. I will have a load of fast growing stem plants from the outset along with anubias, crypts, java fern and some staurogyne repens (not sure how this last one will hold up but we'll see). Livestock will only be added after a month or so. First otos, then my current fish will move over (different varieties of tetra). 

I'm not too keen on shrimp (too delicate IMO) but will probably get some nerite snails in there. 

S


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## Sacha (14 Oct 2018)

P.S. will 10KG be enough gravel to cap the 15-20L of soil that's going in there?


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Oct 2018)

Hey, late to the party but will add my 2 cents worth...

My paludarium has been running 3 years now with very low stocking, monthly get a squirt of tropica ferts, light feeding and about 3 water changes a year.
It was started with JI no3 compost and gravel and topped up with rain water.

Its very doable but I would say that my success is likely due to having a lot of philodendron, ficus and umbrella plant above the water to suck up any nutrients that may accumulate.

I would say it does like a glass clean every month or it gets grubby.

Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Oct 2018)

Just to add that I did start the tank as normal with weekly water changes and then reduced month by month once established.  After about 6 months I was water changing about every 2-3 months and now, 3 years on, only about 2 WC's a year.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## alto (14 Oct 2018)

Iain Sutherland said:


> My paludarium has been running 3 years now


Is there a journal?
I’m drawing a complete blank on this project


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## Mihai Varban (15 Oct 2018)

You could read up on the siesta method for photoperiods. Also the dry start.


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## Sacha (16 Oct 2018)

Thanks Iain, that's good to know. 

Another quick question regarding scaping. Should I put my hardscape (rocks, wood) in the tank before adding substrate? Or add all substrate first and then put hardscape in on top?


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## Iain Sutherland (16 Oct 2018)

alto said:


> Is there a journal?
> I’m drawing a complete blank on this project


There is but it hasn't been updated much and I can't find it.  If I can't find it I'll start a new one tonight. Her is a pic from today.





Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Iain Sutherland (16 Oct 2018)

Sacha said:


> Thanks Iain, that's good to know.
> 
> Another quick question regarding scaping. Should I put my hardscape (rocks, wood) in the tank before adding substrate? Or add all substrate first and then put hardscape in on top?


Depends on your scape but assuming it's a fairly simple scape then add compost, gravel then rocks and wood.

Flickr account has the images of set up.

Looking at the date it's been 2 1/2 years.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## alto (16 Oct 2018)

Found 

Sleeper title

Something a bit different


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## Sacha (24 Oct 2018)

Beautiful tank Iain, really nice work.

So... a BIG update! I had a busy weekend...









There's a layer of aquatic compost under the gravel. I'm hoping that the plants will take quite easily. As you can see I've got Java Fern & Anubias on the wood, Lobelia Mini in the foreground (right), Staurogyne Repens in the foreground (middle), crypts and swords on the left half.

I know the tricky part will be getting the Stauro to grow:





So I'm starting with a 6-hour photoperiod, full EI dosing and double-dose of Easycarbo daily. I will keep this up with weekly 50% water changes for a few weeks in order to give the plants a kick-start, then gradually taper off the dosing to ramp it down to 'low-tech' (no carbon dosing, ferts only once a week). From all the advice I've got here that seems like the most sensible way forward.

Any comments & suggestions on the scape very welcome!

Many thanks again for all the help.

Sacha


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## Sacha (24 Oct 2018)

P.S. I've ordered a Koralia Nano 2200 lph which I hope will help with circulation of ferts. When i move the fish over from the old tank, I will also move over my Eheim external filter 1600 lph. So in total I will have 3800 lph turnover (with 1000 lph internal Juwel filter).


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## Sacha (24 Oct 2018)

Hmm I'm wondering whether a 2200 powerhead may be too much flow for the fish and whether I should have gone with 1600 instead. Any advice?!!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (24 Oct 2018)

I wouldn't worry, more flow is generally better within reason. You could always bounce it off the back glass and get some flow round the back of the tank that would take a bit of over flow out of it if it turns out to be a bit much.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Sacha (24 Oct 2018)

Thanks, good advice. Will do!


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## alto (24 Oct 2018)

I’m on the lesser flow team 
(90cm x 45cm x 55cm tank, 2 Kessil A160, Tropica diffuser, Eheim Pro 4 350 (1050l/h), intermittent Eheim skim, lean dose fertilization... minimal algae tank) 


Unless you’re planning riverine fish, many tropical fish are from low flow areas and will struggle in high flow systems 
Seriously Fish species profiles include natural habitat information so easy enough to select fish more suited to a high flow tank

For plants, we try to prevent any “dead” zones but these offer respite to fish 

Tank looks grand 
Not sure about double dosing the liquid carbon, some plants are sensitive 
Daily 25% water change may do more re increased CO2 
S repens may lose all leaves, just wait for root growth & new life - read Tropica’s article 
Remove any damaged/deteriorating leaves


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## AverageWhiteBloke (24 Oct 2018)

alto said:


> I’m on the lesser flow team



Yeah just remembered this is a low tech affair so flow not as important.


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## alto (24 Oct 2018)

even “high tech” I believe good flow has nothIng to do with LOTS of flow 


But back to some outstanding Vlogs showing two very distinct natural habitats & the respective fish found 

Collectimg Wild Fish in Peru

from Cory of Aquarium Co-op in Edmonds, Washington (state) who connected with Go Wild Peru (Michael Barber & Ian Fuller) for their trip 

(excuse the Collectimg  )


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