# Pondless waterfall....



## Gary Nelson (8 May 2013)

I have been wanting to build a pond for a couple of years, but with one thing and another never got around to it.  However I decided a few weeks ago that this was the year that I would, having said this and doing some snooping around on the net I came across 'pondless waterfall designs'
I'm still reading up on these sort of designs and equipment involved, but I can't help thinking what a nice addition to our garden this would be, coupled with my aqua scaping skills with rocks and plants dotted about one.


I just wanted to ask if anyone on here had built one and if so any pointers on equipment and experience that would help me in starting off. I'm not thinking on a massive design as our garden is not that big, but we have a patio area at the top of the garden where we sit and I have a space at the side.... Off the top of my head I'm thinking something say 4 foot high and running 8-10 foot along and down.


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## sanj (9 May 2013)

But... you got to have a pond with fishies in at the end!


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## Steve Smith (9 May 2013)

It's a good idea, as you could grow some pond/marginal plants, or create a bit of a wetland   Would quite like a pond though but this at least gives you some water without the need for a filtration system and the maintenance that comes with it.


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## martin-green (9 May 2013)

The idea of a pondless waterfall is a good one, no filtration required, no cleaning just the odd top up, if only that were true.

(For those that do not know) The concept of a pre made pondless waterfall is that you have a "Bucket" at the higher end, some liner and then another "Bucket" at the lower end. These buckets are designed so that the top one has a wide thin lip for water to emanate from and large area to catch all the returning water, all you do is add a pump and interconnecting pipe and away you go.

Often people doing this will buy the wrong sized pump or buy a cheap sump pump and spend a fortune in electricity, and still wonder why the water turns green.

Any amount of water given long enough will turn green if exposed to the sun for enough time. With a pondless water fall, it is the same water being circulated all the time (unlike a real waterfall) so after some time the water does turn green, and the whole system has to be cleaned out (But they don't tell you that when you buy one) The only way to prevent the water turning green is to add chemicals or have a UV and filter.

People with ponds either install a UV and bio filter or try to get a "natural balance" as they know if they don't the water will turn green, people with pondless waterfalls find out the hard way. I would never recommend one.

I would however suggest a water feature, if water is wanted in the garden, and a pond is not wanted. But water features being small are inclined to lose a lot of water through evaporation or wind spray.


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## Gary Nelson (9 May 2013)

martin-green said:


> The idea of a pondless waterfall is a good one, no filtration required, no cleaning just the odd top up, if only that were true.
> 
> (For those that do not know) The concept of a pre made pondless waterfall is that you have a "Bucket" at the higher end, some liner and then another "Bucket" at the lower end. These buckets are designed so that the top one has a wide thin lip for water to emanate from and large area to catch all the returning water, all you do is add a pump and interconnecting pipe and away you go.
> 
> ...



Thanks Martin, what you have pointed out makes allot of sense and I can see it could be more hassle and maintenance of a pond.  
My original plan of a pond was to build one with railway sleepers so it was raised and have a waterfall going into that... Like Sanj says I could have a few fish then too 
I wanted something more for the plants around whatever I build and to attract wildlife rather than more for having one for fish, Newts would be great as I used to keep these as a kid.  Having said that, I think the only wildlife I would attract would be in the form of 4 legs! (My dog!)

I think I may go back to my original plan of a pond though and a few fish and some lovely plants


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## dw1305 (10 May 2013)

Hi all,


Gary Nelson said:


> I wanted something more for the plants around whatever I build and to attract wildlife rather than more for having one for fish, Newts would be great as I used to keep these as a kid


Newts will find your pond, they travel large distances on warm wet nights in the summer. Our wildlife pond is basically no maintenance. I'll give it a large clean out over the next year or so, and then just leave it for the next 5 years or so. This was June 2012.





and this was 2010




cheers Darrel


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## Steve Smith (10 May 2013)

The green water issue, would this be combated with large amounts of plants?  Also, would the algae not need a decent amount of light to thrive and cause green water?  If it's a small waterfall that goes to a covered reservoir (covered by rocks and plants) then would it get a chance to turn green?


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## ian_m (10 May 2013)

I once had a waterfall feature, large sump (hole, rubber membrane, layer of sand, second membrane) covered with wire mesh & stones and a pump to top of feature. Despite never getting direct sunlight continually suffered algae growing on the feature & stones. The water was never green, just the hardscape.

Luckily could lift the waterfall off the stones (just) and the big stones onto lawn to clean, so as to not contaminate the sump water. Used wire brushes, pressure washers & bleach to clean. But it soon returned.

Tried all manor of chemicals in the water, copper sulphate was OK & cheap but not kid friendly, but in the end unless regularly dosed just went green.

Did think of getting a UV steriliser, my mate had one on his water feature, but it still went green, just took a little longer.

In the end the pump impeller failed and couldn't get a replacement so hole was filled and all the stones/pebbles ended up as decoration under the kids trampoline.


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## dw1305 (10 May 2013)

Hi all,


Steve Smith said:


> The green water issue, would this be combated with large amounts of plants?


Yes. This is the pond in May 2008, just after it had filled. The water stayed green until a huge bloom of _Daphnia_ cleared it, I also chucked in some Amazon Frogbit and _Salvinia_ which had formed a 75% cover by August. I've never had green water since.

In 2009 - 2011 I had diminishing amounts of blanket weed in the spring, but as the plant biomass rose I didn't get any in 2012 or 2013 (so far). If you look closely all the lit submerged surfaces will have a very fine fuzz of algal filaments.





Steve Smith said:


> Also, would the algae not need a decent amount of light to thrive and cause green water? If it's a small waterfall that goes to a covered reservoir (covered by rocks and plants) then would it get a chance to turn green?


Even if the water is green it won't be obvious when it is flowing down the water-fall. How green the water goes will depend upon how often it is exposed to the light on the water-fall. If it spends little time in reservoir and a lot of time flowing it will be green, longer in the reservoir less green

Filamentous algae is a different issue, and I would predict a fantastic growth on the water-fall itself. People who have UV units on Koi ponds etc often swap green water for filamentous algae growing on pond sides and cascades.

The "problem" is that because the light and nutrients necessary for plant growth are still present, warmth (above about 5oC) light (above LCP) and nutrient will always equal photosynthetic organism growth.

cheers Darrel


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## Gary Nelson (10 May 2013)

Thanks for putting those pics up Darrel, what a superb natural pond.... With all those plants too, just the sort of thing I had in mind. I know it would take several years to get it somewhere like that, but it really has set me thinking on getting started now


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