# In need of advice for new tank.



## richard brown (11 May 2018)

Hi everyone.

I have been given the go ahead to get a bigger tank next week and am looking in the 180 liter range.

I want to go low tech with the tank, maybe go low tech jungle.

I have been looking at both the roma 200 and rio 180, but both seem to be slightly the wrong side of the scale with the lights, the roma has 7.5w led while the rio has 2 x 23w led's.

Can anyone recommend a good tank of that size that comes with equipment and stand etc for similar prices bearing in mind I want to go low tech.

edit: honestly looking for something simple so I can throw low light plants in there add the odd ferts and relax but due to budget and time I need a complete unit.

Edit 2: just looked at this while browsing https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/product/seashell-elite-36-x-15-x-20-aquarium-hood-cabinet/65332

If I am going to go low tech does the x10 flow rule apply? and what would be ideal low tech lighting for a tank like that?, only really vallis and crypts I will grow.


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## Zeus. (11 May 2018)

The x10 rule doesn’t apply to low tech. If I remember correct x5 is more than enough

What about the Aqua nano range 130l with sump in back of tank open top all filters and heaters hidden.


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## richard brown (11 May 2018)

I like the look of that.

And I found it with 33% off!

I think the light is ok too, only 30w.

My only reservation right now is the curved front corners.


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## richard brown (11 May 2018)

Just found this: https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/...ua-one-aquariums/aqua-one-oak-style-230-combo

That thing is huge and comes with external filter and lighting...

20w lighting though..

Edit: The 145 version could maybe be a better option, comes with the same filter and same 20w lighting.


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## Barbara Turner (11 May 2018)

There is a great deal on the evolution of Aqua at maidenhead aquatics at the minute for £679
https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/product/evolution-aqua-freshwater-900

This includes light  cabinet. 

Green machine also has some special offers on ADA tanks as sadly there going bust. 
https://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/shop/ada-cube-garden-90-h-90x45x60cm-10mm-8-hooks-incl/

Have a look at the tanks in person as there is a big difference in build quality, I started with a Rio 180 and have just upgraded to a Redsea. 

I bought a solid oak sideboard for a stand second hand and reinforced it heavily.


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## richard brown (11 May 2018)

Barbara Turner said:


> There is a great deal on the evolution of Aqua at maidenhead aquatics at the minute for £679
> https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/product/evolution-aqua-freshwater-900
> 
> This includes light  cabinet.
> ...



Those tanks are nice but by the time I have factored in all the extra's and substrate, hardscape and plants it would destroy my budget which is around £600 max all in.


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## Zeus. (11 May 2018)

richard brown said:


> My only reservation right now is the curved front corners



Easy to clean. Son has aqua one nano 60 and has it high tech, not with std light OFC


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## richard brown (11 May 2018)

Ok , some thinking to do.

Can I ask for a little bit more advice please?

would a plant growth bottom layer covered in a mixture of sand and gravel be ok for substrate with just vallis and various crypts?


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## Zeus. (11 May 2018)

richard brown said:


> Ok , some thinking to do.
> 
> Can I ask for a little bit more advice please?
> 
> would a plant growth bottom layer covered in a mixture of sand and gravel be ok for substrate with just vallis and various crypts?


Yes as long as you use a suitable fert regime. Using say ADA AS no ferts needed for some time or till the ferts run out in the AS esp if going low tech


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## alto (11 May 2018)

Substrate would be fine for various plants - you can always increase water column fertilizers as needed

Jurijs mit JS has been adding Tropica Nutrition Capsules to his substrate (bottom) layer - check his Facebook page for method (he opens the capsules & sprinkles the powder, ADA style)

I've always been impressed with Juwel quality/price 


I'm less keen on the dimensions of the Aqua-One tanks (water volume delivered via tank height - most fish like to swim horizontal not vertical ) - the company receives some mixed reviews 


Eheim offer the Vivaline 180 LED  in similar price range (£412 complete aquatics)
Glass tank is 100 x 40 x 45 (H) & 17watt LED (I'd contact Eheim for details on the lighting)


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## alto (11 May 2018)

In case you missed this topic

NACD Optiwhite Aquariums


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## richard brown (11 May 2018)

alto said:


> Substrate would be fine for various plants - you can always increase water column fertilizers as needed
> 
> Jurijs mit JS has been adding Tropica Nutrition Capsules to his substrate (bottom) layer - check his Facebook page for method (he opens the capsules & sprinkles the powder, ADA style)
> 
> ...



I get what you are saying alto but I think the missus really wants oak, I was looking at the fluval tanks and she did not like the colors.


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## alto (11 May 2018)

NACD offers any finish imaginable

I rather like the grey oak that Eheim does on the Vivaline


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

Been thinking alto and that vivaline is probably the best in terms of tank size etc, the 17w led should be ok too considering its only 3w lower than the oak style light but nowhere near as deep.

Now to convince my better half to agree...


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

Be careful comparing LED power use to there output as they are not all as efficient in their energy conversion to light. PAR data best lumens okish but watts


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

Zeus. said:


> Be careful comparing LED power use to there output as they are not all as efficient in their energy conversion to light. PAR data best lumens okish but watts



Ok so would 2 19w 2130 lumens led tubes be too much for low tech with a tank height of 55cm, no par data available, that is the juwel vision 180 tank the missus has said she likes.


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

Tropicas lumen guide would be your best bet. OK it's not PAR but better than watts. Pick you level of plants and see what suits.
Always nice if you can dim your lights, then at least you can run them at the level that suits. After all who drives there car at max speeds


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

so it is basically dividing the lumen by liters?

Ok so the juwel vision example works out at 22 lumen per liter if I am right..

Top end of the easy scale per the tropica website.

Very tempting...


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

richard brown said:


> Ok so the juwel vision example works out at 22 lumen per liter if I am right..



23.6 but yes in the right order


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

Zeus. said:


> 23.6 but yes in the right order



Do you think I would get away with easy plants and no co2 with those?


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

richard brown said:


> Do you think I would get away with easy plants and no co2 with those?



Depends on Scape OFC and pretty deep tank also. But if you keep clear of doing a carpet, say do rocks with sand like beaches with transitional gravel of different size rocks/gravel to sandy areas and make it look natural. Yes should look good. Plus if you build up the back of the Scape so less water for the light to penitrate or attach plants to wood or rocks you might even get some medium plants to work.


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

It is just going to be various vallis along the back, shorter varieties towards the middle, thinking maybe an echinodorus infront of the vallis in one corner and Hydrocotyle leucocephala in the other corner by the filter, a mixture of crypts in front with an open space just to the left center at the front, maybe put some Sagittaria scattered around that area.

Probably gonna go with sand and bulky gravel for the top layer with some capsules thrown in.

I was even tampted to just buy one of the jungle packs on aquarium gardens website but decided I would like to pick the plants myself.


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

I would put at least one big bag of AS in to buffer the ferts and toxins. Plants will love you for it even if going low tech.


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## richard brown (12 May 2018)

Would you put that under the sand and gravel on top of the plant growth stuff?


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## Zeus. (12 May 2018)

Not under the sand as it can make its way to top of sand. But diffinatly under gravel in maim planted areas


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## alto (12 May 2018)

I think the Juwel Rio 180 would be fine, just plant heavily from the start

The Eheim will likely be fine as well given the lower water column depth though I'd prefer their power LED's over the "classic" - I suspect with the "classic", you'd likely need to stay with lower light plants
Check Tropica plant details as some "Easy" plants may prefer "medium" light - if you try any of these, make sure they're not shaded (especially during startup)

You might check if you can add a second classic LED or switch for the power LED, when ordering
Note that only the Eheim powerLED+ is compatible with their Lighting Controller, though there is a dimmer available for the powerLED

If tank is placed in an open area with good amount of ambient light, this will benefit plants

Visually I prefer the style of the Eheim cabinet over the Juwel "floating" platform (I'm surprised Juwel hasn't changed this)


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## richard brown (13 May 2018)

Pretty much sold on the vision 180 now, gonna have a trip to maidenhead aquatics in Ayr to have a look at some tanks in person before we make a final decision though.

I will probably create a journal once the tank is ordered.


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## richard brown (13 May 2018)

alto said:


> I think the Juwel Rio 180 would be fine, just plant heavily from the start
> 
> The Eheim will likely be fine as well given the lower water column depth though I'd prefer their power LED's over the "classic" - I suspect with the "classic", you'd likely need to stay with lower light plants
> Check Tropica plant details as some "Easy" plants may prefer "medium" light - if you try any of these, make sure they're not shaded (especially during startup)
> ...



The vision does not use the floating platform anymore


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## alto (14 May 2018)

Definitely look at tanks in real life! 
Call around & check what's on display, where ... sometimes the garden centres have more (Juwel) tanks than the aquarium shops 

Vision line does the curved glass which definitely affects visual perception, hopefully you can find a shop with rectangular & curved glass displays - easier to observe the impact on fish shape 
(you'll love it or hate it )


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## richard brown (14 May 2018)

alto said:


> Definitely look at tanks in real life!
> Call around & check what's on display, where ... sometimes the garden centres have more (Juwel) tanks than the aquarium shops
> 
> Vision line does the curved glass which definitely affects visual perception, hopefully you can find a shop with rectangular & curved glass displays - easier to observe the impact on fish shape
> (you'll love it or hate it )



My choices for viewing are limited, only pets @ home and maidenhead around.


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## Zeus. (14 May 2018)

I have a maidenhead aquatics near me which I think is one of the better chains outlets been in others that wasn't as good. 
I always shop around then barter prices in any outlet. Getting them to match online prices and discounts for bulk numbers of fish/shrimp. Always prepared to walk out empty handed.


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## richard brown (14 May 2018)

In another twist a local pet shop who don't actually stock much aquarium stuff at all where I get my tap safe from said he could get me a fluval roma 240 for £499, I have sent fluval an email to find out the lumens etc.


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## alto (14 May 2018)

You'd need to upgrade the lighting for plants 

Check whether shop can order in other brands as well, much easier to deal with your local shop in case of any issues

(though if it's a one off for the shop, maybe not ... at the least, there'd likely be longer delays in getting anything resolved - versus an aquarium shop that deals frequently with aquatic suppliers)


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## richard brown (16 May 2018)

So decided on the roma 200, great price, missus likes the oak, longer than the vision with more volume.

light is weaker but that just means slower growth I suppose.

Not sure on the filter, if plant growth hides it I will keep it running, if not I will just buy an external filter later.


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## alto (16 May 2018)

Yeah those filters are among my least favourite (prone to slowing, then temperamental to restart) but should work well enough to get tank going 

55cm tall tank, I'd not start plants without upgrading the lighting - substrate PAR will be very low


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## HiNtZ (18 May 2018)

richard brown said:


> What would be ideal low tech lighting for a tank like that?, only really vallis and crypts I will grow.



I'm growing cryps under a single 4.4w 4000k GU10 LED downlighter in a 68L. I also have them in my high tech 155L with 150W high power LEDs. They really don't mind where they are as long as there's something.


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