# Lighting for deep planted tank



## bhavik (22 Sep 2017)

I currently have a fluval Roma 200 which is about 55-60cm deep to the substrate and was wondering what kind of lights should I be using on it to grow plants?


I did have 2 t8s which I then replaced with 2 aquasky 25watts but that didn’t make any difference the plants are still looking crap!


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## Konsa (22 Sep 2017)

Hi
Depending on the plants U have.It is rarely a light issue with planted tanks.I find that flow ,availability and distribution of nutrients is more important.I keep few low tech tanks which are quite dim atm and my plants do good.Except thay one of them has a massive crypt melt after one year of being setup.
Regards Konsa


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## Millns84 (22 Sep 2017)

Aquasky lights aren't really designed for growing plants so would be for low/medium set ups.

Have a look at Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0 or Interpet Tri-Spec lights.


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## ceg4048 (23 Sep 2017)

Millns84 said:


> Aquasky lights aren't really designed for growing plants so would be for low/medium set ups.


Hi,
     There really are no lights "designed" for plants and that's because plants don't really care what lights you use as long you don't use too much. The lights that are so-called "designed for plants" are actually "designed" to separate unsuspecting hobbyist from their hard earned cash.

As mentioned by Konsa the reason the OP's plants are looking like crap is actually because his focus is on lights instead of on what plants really need, which is good CO2, and good nutrition. So there is little doubt that his CO2/flow/distribution/nutrition is crap, and that's why the plants are failing.

Cheers,


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Sep 2017)

I love Clive's wit and honesty, and he doesn't like us to waste our money!!


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## Tim Harrison (24 Sep 2017)

Damn, it's good to have him back


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## bhavik (25 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi,
> There really are no lights "designed" for plants and that's because plants don't really care what lights you use as long you don't use too much. The lights that are so-called "designed for plants" are actually "designed" to separate unsuspecting hobbyist from their hard earned cash.
> 
> As mentioned by Konsa the reason the OP's plants are looking like crap is actually because his focus is on lights instead of on what plants really need, which is good CO2, and good nutrition. So there is little doubt that his CO2/flow/distribution/nutrition is crap, and that's why the plants are failing.
> ...



Ok so what I will do now then is start by adding some liquid ferts daily (lush max) and I have liquid carbon(easycarbo) should I add that daily and how much should I add? It’s a 200 litre tank

The only thing with the carbon is that when I add it I notice the plants start to melt not sure why that’s why I have stopped using it

This is how much tank looks atm


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## Edvet (26 Sep 2017)

How long are the lights on?
You have some plantbusting fish in there too, that gibiceps will knock a plant out of the tank if it scares
Any idea on waterparameters?
How often do you change water, how much and how is your filter (size, media etc)


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## bhavik (26 Sep 2017)

They are roughly on about 8-10 hrs. Yeah the pleco does bump into plants but not removing them from the substrate.
The plants pretty much look like crap right now so dont know what to do

Dont know parameters but water changes i do about every 2-3 weeks and about 50% maybe more and the filter i have is a fluval 205 it has sponges and ceramic bio media


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## Edvet (26 Sep 2017)

I've been away some time but the old advice would be: less light (i would go for 5-6 hours), feed hard (EI method), do large waterchanges once a week (maybe up to 50 percent), make sure the filter is not clogged and just fill it lightly with filter media, so there is good flow, and add some carbon ( either through easycarbo, or CO2).
Maybe toss some floaters in there ( duckweed index, to see how growth is without CO2 constraints) and add some easy cheap plants ( pondplants for instance).
Then see if you can get growth.


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## ceg4048 (26 Sep 2017)

Wow, that does indeed appear to be _major _crappiness, sorry to say mate.
Although, that red lily seems to be doing quite OK.

I'm not familiar with Lush Max, and I guess you are buying it because it's cheap, which is great, but I wish you would buy your ferts from any one of our sponsors to help support the web site.

In any case, a 200L tank is a fair size, and using Easycarbo won't be cheap. It needs to be added every day, prior to turning the lights on (perhaps 15 minutes or so prior). I would start by using 2X the bottle recommended amount.

Those plants are suffering a bad case of Black Brush Algae (BBA) which is always a sign of poor CO2.
The filamentous algae on that Ludwigia looking plant and the blackening of that (fern) looking plant on the right also corroborate a CO2 issue.

I would definitely not even think about water "parameters". That will just get you deeper into a quagmire and you are deep enough as it is, but you need to do massive (50% or more) water changes at least once a week.

Start with that and see how it goes. I noted that you mentioned having used Easycarbo and how it seems to have damaged your plants but others have reported good success with those particular plants so I'm not sure whether they melted because you were not using it often enough or not. Very difficult to analyze.

Cheers,


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## bhavik (27 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Wow, that does indeed appear to be _major _crappiness, sorry to say mate.
> Although, that red lily seems to be doing quite OK.
> 
> I'm not familiar with Lush Max, and I guess you are buying it because it's cheap, which is great, but I wish you would buy your ferts from any one of our sponsors to help support the web site.
> ...




Yeah it’s pretty crap! Yeah it’s the red tiger lotus  but if that ain’t doing great they are generally meant to get tall and grow to the surface but it just says very close to the substrate :/

So you wouldn’t say it’s a lighting issue more of a co2 issue from looking at the plants?
I also have an air stone which isn’t running right now but do you think I should turn it on? As the other half of the tank get some water movement at the top due to the output filter

I use lush max as there are quite a few people on this forum that use it and have gotten great results and recommend it

Ok i’ll do that and start of with the carbon and start dosing about 5ml everyday and as for the time to dose does it have to be just before lights turn on as some days I leave my house early and can’t do so :/


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## Edvet (27 Sep 2017)

Shift the lighting time to later?


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## ceg4048 (27 Sep 2017)

bhavik said:


> eah it’s the red tiger lotus but if that ain’t doing great they are generally meant to get tall and grow to the surface but it just says very close to the substrate


Well, OK, fair enough, but it also isn't turning into mush and I don't see any black spots or other type of rotting.



bhavik said:


> So you wouldn’t say it’s a lighting issue more of a co2 issue from looking at the plants?


Well, I mean, if it is a lighting issue then it would only be because there is too much light.

When plants receive light, they then need CO2 and nutrients to turn the energy of the light into food to fuel their growth.
If they receive light energy without getting at least a certain minimum of CO2 and nutrients, then the energy of the light damages them. Think of it as getting sunburned.

Each plant has a different minimum CO2 and nutrient requirement. That's why in the same tank, you can have different levels of damage.
So that's why I mention the lily. The other plants suffer severe rotting and algal attacks while the damage to the lily is stunted growth.

I'm pointing this out in order to show you that although the tank has really crapped out, it can still teach you something about cause and effect.

Ferns, for example can grow in almost complete darkness and will still look nice and green. In very low light they will simply grow slower, however, as soon as you pummel them with light the fail unless you also pummel them with CO2.

While you are busy contemplating adding more light, the plants are screaming at you to add more CO2 and to use LESS light. I hope you can understand this, because it's a really important point.


bhavik said:


> I also have an air stone which isn’t running right now but do you think I should turn it on? As the other half of the tank get some water movement at the top due to the output filter


OK, well if your CO2 method will be via the liquids then an airstone will certainly help. If you were going to use gas injected CO2 then an airstone during the time the lights are on would be a very bad idea. I don't like telling people that they should spend more money, but it would be a good idea, if you can afford it, to get a couple of those small auxiliary pumps, like a Koralia. I'm sure you can find them cheap on ebay as well. That would be the best option for water movement if you cannot afford a large canister filter.



bhavik said:


> Ok i’ll do that and start of with the carbon and start dosing about 5ml everyday and as for the time to dose does it have to be just before lights turn on as some days I leave my house early and can’t do so



Remember I mentioned above that when you have lights blasting the plants with no source of CO2 it causes problems? Well that's why it's important to have the liquid carbon being distributed through the tank before the lights come on as a general policy. If you can't do it, you can't do it, but as Edvert suggests, if you have a timer you can program it to turn the lights on a little later.

Cheers,


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## Sweded (8 Oct 2017)

You need to go back to the drawing board with this tank if you want to succeed and have a beautiful aquascape with lush plants. First you need to get a sense of what you want the tank to look like and be inspired with other aquariums so you have something to aim for and a blueprint. Beginners are better suited copying already successful layouts and follow very strict step by step instruction instead of freebasing. That can be done later on when you have more experience. First get the basics right. You need to reconsider the fish choice.
All the fish that can mess up plants is a bad idea. Pleco, loaches (can work) and slightly aggressive cichlids is a big gamble. Maybe you have grown too fond of the older fish and if so I would consider plastics plants or a new aquarium.
2 T8 with reflectors is perfectly fine in a low tech tank with low light plants like java fern, anubias and cryptocorynes and 50w led might be too much depending on plants and if you go with CO2.
Pressurized CO2 is a bit like doping. You need it to be competitive in big sports but if your aim is to run a marathon in under 4 hours or finish a bike race with your middle aged drinking buddies it's not necessary. It is however always beneficial for performance.
Have a few weeks of thinking and looking at aquascape tutorials/journals and youtube videos, buy what is necessary, empty the tank and start over.
Here is a little inspiration to get you going and very doable for a beginner in your specific tank with the right preparations.


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## REDSTEVEO (17 Oct 2017)

I agree with everyone's comments above, not meaning to sound harsh, but it does look a bit crap mate to be honest. You need to ditch the Plecs and the big cichlids, empty the tank and start again. What substrate is that in there? It looks like black Quartz which holds no nutrients for the plants whatsoever. Have a look at JBL Volcanic base substrate, and JBL Plant Pro planting soil. 

Look at some examples of other planted tanks, decide on what you want and go for it. Buy a timer for your lights, set it for six hours, coincide the timer to come on 3 hours before you get home from work, at least then you can see the tank with lights on while you are home. Get the ferts and CO2 going in from the start.

As soon as the tank is cycled sufficiently start by adding some Ottocinclus, a few small corys, and maybe some Amano Shrimps. Leave them see how they are getting on and how your plants develop, then you can take your time thinking about what fish you want to keep in your new tank. Avoid cichlids ad they will dig up the substrate and turn your tank into a container of brown soup.


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## Martin in Holland (19 Oct 2017)

@REDSTEVEO aowtsh .... well at least he is looking for answers and you gave him (probably the best) an option.


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Oct 2017)

Hi Martin, good to hear from you too To be fair I think he did use the term 'crap' himself.  It's not an option, it's the only option. Try, make mistakes, learn from them, try again, persevere. That's how it works in life as well as in aqua scaping. Just needs a bit of 'tough love' that's all.

Still waiting to hear how he is getting on.

Best, Steve


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## Martin in Holland (25 Oct 2017)

I think it's best to start with some "easy" plants first, Anubius, Java fern, moss and and such, try to get as many as you can afford. group them, don't spread them around and don't think to much about lighting. Low light is always better than to much light.


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## Chubbs (28 Oct 2017)

Ignore the tiger lotus (unless you’ve been trimming it back?) it can feed on reserves from its bulb for weeks and once they’re gone will rapidly deteriate if there aren’t any nutrients in the substrate/water. A tiger lotus can throw out roots within days and new shoots can reach the top of my 55ish cm tank within a similar amount of time. It’s an incredibly quick growing plant when conditions are right. The only instance where it would look like that and be healthy is if it’s the dwarf variety and or you’ve trimmed right back any leggy growth over weeks/months to encourage a compact growth habit.

Poor maintainance Is likely your biggest issue. With your substrate looking like it’s being covered in fish waste in those photos. If your plants are coated in algae, you can add ferts and up your lights, over saturate with Co2, all you want, they still won’t survive (neither will your fish). I’d look at your feeding habits, stocking choice and possibly reduce it or up considerably your maintainance. 

This will cost you nothing but a bit more time.

Just for insight: A Fluval 205 is tiny. I have a high tech 240ltr so not that far off from your 200, account for the amount of displacement I have in mine, I’m probably even closer. I Run an FX4. Which I maintain monthly/ every two months. I did have a 305 and felt it just couldn’t cope once filled with media. With a 205, you need to be right on top of your maintainance. With the amount of waste in your tank and only doing maintaince once every three weeks, you’ll be fighting a loosing battle. Once packed with media, those sexy ‘official’ capacity figures will look like a Walrus in tights (not sexy, just incase you’re getting mixed messages).

The look of your tank is subjective so If you like it great, if you don’t, change it. I wouldn’t go as far as restarting it. Unless you have some cash to burn. Instead, I’d take their advice and increase your maintaince. Weekly, not daily. The more you interfere with your tank the harder it will be to maintain balance. If your not dosing a ton Of ferts you can get away with just a gravel vac, you don’t have to do a set % water change unless you feel it’s needed (or are happy to do so). Treat any new water with declorinator (sea chem prime is a good one) treat the new water volume, no need to dose the full tank and a bottle will last you ages.

Don’t over stretch yourself. If you don’t enjoy the upkeep and want little maintaince, go low tech and low stock levels. Otherwise the ‘hobby’ will quickly turn into an blahblahblahblah ache. Again subjective, as some people love nothing more than to be balls deep in a bucket of tank water, washing their filter out every week. The tanks we see that inspire us, and look beautiful often hide the amount of time, research and patience that has lead up to that point (both low or high tech). Don’t give up, apply some common sense and a stunning planted tank is a very attainable goal.


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