# BGA...I guess?



## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

Is this BGA (pics)?
It only started recently (only major change was a large reduction of plants as they were getting out of hand). Regular weekly 40-50% water changes, no new fish, shortened lights on time to about 5 hours tops, small 20 litre tank, always been spotless.


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## MichaelJ (26 Oct 2021)

Hi @dougbraz Can you post a Full Tank Shot and more details about this tank... this tank looks different from the tank you've discussed before, if I'm not mistaken. You might want to dial down the intensity for the time being,  as opposed to the hours - intensity is much more important (detrimental) than the actual photoperiod.

Cheers,
Michael


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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

The lighting is 5w led - has been like this for a couple of years now. A HOB filter with some carbon, sponge and floss (nothing fancy). pH 7, nitrates and nitrites fine. Once a day feeding with flakes (not excessively).
What I am surprised at is that only over the last month has this green gunge appeared - never had it before, and like I mentioned, the only change was a reduction in plants. Adding seachem flourish on a very sporadic basis - tiny amount at that.




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## jaypeecee (26 Oct 2021)

dougbraz said:


> Is this BGA (pics)?
> It only started recently (only major change was a large reduction of plants as they were getting out of hand).


Hi @dougbraz 

There is a clue in what you have said above - large reduction of plants. Less consumption of nutrients > surplus nutrients available for unwanted algae and/or Cyanobacteria (aka BGA). Additional to the comment above by @MichaelJ, I suggest you consider lowering your dosage of ferts.

JPC


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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

You might want to dial down the intensity for the time being said:
			
		

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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> There is a clue in what you have said above - large reduction of plants. Less consumption of nutrients > surplus nutrients available for unwanted algae and/or Cyanobacteria (aka BGA). Additional to the comment above by @MichaelJ, I suggest you consider lowering your dosage of ferts.





MichaelJ said:


> Hi @dougbraz Can you post a Full Tank Shot and more details about this tank... this tank looks different from the tank you've discussed before, if I'm not mistaken. You might want to dial down the intensity for the time being,  as opposed to the hours - intensity is much more important (detrimental) than the actual photoperiod.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael


OK, gotcha. Will raid larger tank for some plants (getting overgrown jungle-y there as well), cut out ferts for a bit and move one of the LED arms away from the water.
Yes, Michael, it is a different tank than before - my other one (main one) is 30 gallons and so far doing great (to my modest needs).
Thanks for the help guys!
cheers from a surprisingly cool Brazil!


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## jaypeecee (26 Oct 2021)

dougbraz said:


> ...nitrates and nitrites fine. Once a day feeding with flakes (not excessively).


Hi @dougbraz 

What is your most recent nitrate figure? Possibly more important is phosphate in the water column. Processed fish food often contains a high proportion of phosphate.

JPC


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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

Hiya @jaypeecee, 
Just run out of nitrate test, so tbh , dunno…but just did a partial water change (actually 50% change twice) with filtered water which always checked out fine in tests.
Flake food has always been the same Tetra flakes.


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## MichaelJ (26 Oct 2021)

dougbraz said:


> K, gotcha. Will raid larger tank for some plants (getting overgrown jungle-y there as well), cut out ferts for a bit and move one of the LED arms away from the water.


Sounds like a plan - more plants is good. If you're doing weekly 50% WC that should be good - perhaps up it to two times a week while the tank is still maturing and you are combatting the algae problem.


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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Sounds like a plan - more plants is good. If you're doing weekly 50% WC that should be good - perhaps up it to two times a week while the tank is still maturing and you are combatting the algae problem.



Seems the way to go - thanks!


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## MichaelJ (26 Oct 2021)

dougbraz said:


> Just run out of nitrate test, so tbh , dunno…


Get more plants in there and continue those WC's and you don't really have to worry about nitrate or much of anything else for that matter. My two low-tech tanks are deliberately, from dosing, in the 20-40ppm range on NO3 and >10ppm on PO4... Impossible to tell from the test kits, but plants and livestock is doing great.


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## dougbraz (26 Oct 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Get more plants in there and continue those WC's and you don't really have to worry about nitrate or much of anything else for that matter. My two low-tech tanks are deliberately, from dosing, in the 20-40ppm range on NO3 and >10ppm on PO4... Impossible to tell from the test kits, but plants and livestock is doing great.






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## Wolf6 (28 Oct 2021)

You can spot dose some easycarbo or excel onto the bga, that will kill it quite fast. The cause is most likely what the others already surmised. Having some bga under the surface of the soil isnt uncommon, especially in tanks that have been running a bit longer. On a side note, I do feel 20 liters isnt enough to accommodate those fish, is this a temporary housing? Zebras like to be able to swim around. For a 20 liter I'd stick to just shrimp or the smallest of nano fish.


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 Oct 2021)

dougbraz said:


> Is this BGA (pics)?



Yes.



dougbraz said:


> the only change was a reduction in plants.



The change was a reduction in plants, the effects of that change will be felt across the tanks assemblage very suddenly. There’s also a minimal amount of plants in the setup. Might be related, equally it might not.



Wolf6 said:


> The cause is most likely what the others already surmised.



Compared to the above comments, have found BGA to appear at startup when there is a lot of change going on. Have also seen it suddenly appear in a tank that is a year old running constant with inputs, no interruption to filters and minimal trimming back. It has never been as simple as ‘this’ caused ‘that’ from personal experience and if you wipe it out, then it doesn’t return despite changing nothing about the setup. How does this work?

Some believe it gets a foothold due the ratio of N to P. Can’t say this is much use in an aquarium with active substrate, but may be useful information that can be pursued by those using water column dosing with inert substrates.

If the design and running of the setup is key to why it appeared in the first place, why wouldn’t it just return after treatment? It’s ubiquitous and will even turn up in a dish of water left out for long enough.

This is a ‘take it or leave it’ bit of advice as I can’t explain why it works, just that it repeatedly has. Nothing has been as effective at wiping out BGA as ADA’s Phyton-Git. You try a lot of different products in a store and it came out on top.

It’s supposedly a phytoncide based product and can’t be overdosed to my knowledge. Spot treat the area with the filters off, leave it to settle over the area for 10-15 minutes, siphon out the dead cyano with the water change. Pour in a cap full with the fresh water at water change. It usually rids the tank of BGA within a week, just be keen to remove any dead bits that may be floating around as manual removal is important.

If BGA is below the substrate along the glass you can inject Phyton-Git in with a 1ml syringe. Once dead you will find nerite snails will burrow down to get to it. This has an added bonus that it frees the dead BGA and it may then end up in your filter floss for removal.

Bio security on multiple tanks is not possible from experience. In a gallery of ten tanks with one tank affected, you primarily treat the afflicted tank and put a precautionary cap full of Phyton-Git in the other tanks at water change that week. Practically no one will disinfect their tools so it could potentially be transported system to system. 

As with most manufacturers it isn’t really clear what is in the product. Phytoncides are produced by some plants to protect their tissues. It still doesn’t explain how this could be bottled or preserved until the point of use successfully. Did suspect at one point that this may be a red herring, with dormant heterotrophic bacteria being the mechanism at play. However, there is no clouding of the water and glass like you get with the use of other heterotrophic bacterial treatments. 

Either way, have found Phyton-Git very effective at eradicating BGA from a system permanently. Also good at tackling BBA and Staghorn on leaves without consequences like with spot dosing excel/glutaraldehyde/liquid carbon. Some will say it is pricey, but a 100ml bottle of Phyton-Git Sol (thicker solution that sinks) lasts years in the fridge. Worth having at your disposal.

Obviously the counter argument is ‘just run a clean tank and you won’t get algae’. However, Cyanobacteria is bacteria and has turned up in tanks at unexpected times for unknown reasons. 

Long post about broader experience with BGA, but hopefully something useful to you in there @dougbraz


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## dougbraz (28 Oct 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Long post about broader experience with BGA, but hopefully something useful to you in there @dougbraz


yes, thank you for the detailed input. Not sure I can get  Phyton-Git here locally, but will have a look. Being ADA, it will likely cost an arm and a leg!


Wolf6 said:


> On a side note, I do feel 20 liters isnt enough to accommodate those fish


Agree that they are looking a little large for the tank, so maybe will move them to my 30gal - I have shrimps (ok only 6) in a 10 litre tank if you want small! The irony is that I want a school of SMALL fish (Chilli rasboras) for my BIGGER tank, not more black and white stripies!


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