# Sterilising nets etc.



## Gaina (20 Feb 2018)

What does everyone use to sterilise nets, aquascaping tools etc? I cannot find good old unscented bleach anywhere, it's all got exotic additives and perfumes, so I'm wondering if the sterilising fluid used for baby bottles would do the job? 

All feedback gratefully received.


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## Twisted Melon (20 Feb 2018)

Water over 92 degrees C will kill any and all.


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## Zeus. (20 Feb 2018)

Milton's solution





Flushing my auto dosser out with it ATM


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## Scorpio1646 (20 Feb 2018)

Hi Gaina...Lots of confusion generally surrounding Milton Fluid. 
I set up Milton BabyCare in the UK and can promise you that although Milton Fluid smells like bleach, it is NOT bleach and is completely safe for cleaning fish tanks and associated aquatic equipment. 
Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride. The Milton Fluid in the UK has a strength of 2% sodium hypochlorite. 
What makes Milton Fluid different from bleach is the purification process during manufacture which ensures complete removal of all heavy metal ions which would normally act as a catalyst to chemically break down hypochlorites causing instability. With the heavy ions removed, Milton Fluid decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).
I use Milton fluid all the time...It is really effective for killing stubborn bacteria and is especially effective when  rinsing out old tanks.


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## ian_m (21 Feb 2018)

I just use Tesco's bleach, both thick and thin type (and perfumed) diluted down to sterilise my fishy bits . Provided you wash thorougly after use and wash with Prime solution (dechlorinator) as well, the cleaned items have no bleach or perfume smell afterwards.

This is the best I find, especially for regenerating purigen, just plain sodium hypochlorite solution, no perfume, no soaps, and only 35p for 2litres....bargain.
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/260550096



Scorpio1646 said:


> Milton Fluid smells like bleach, it is NOT bleach


Oh, yes it is. The definition of bleach is a range of chemicals that whiten clothes, lighten hair color, remove stains and has anti-microbial action. As it contains sodium hyporchlorite, which is a bleaching agent, it is therefore a type of bleach. The MSDS for Milton Fluid calls it a "chlorine based bleaching agent".


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## Scorpio1646 (21 Feb 2018)

Perhaps I should have been more specific with my words Ian.....Milton Fluid is NOT a _household_ bleach....the term 'bleaching agent' in the MSDS is adjective....this link provides a more accurate description: http://www.milton-tm.com/en/consumer/faqs.Toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their decomposition, sodium *chlorate*. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium *chloride *(salt).


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## ian_m (21 Feb 2018)




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## zozo (21 Feb 2018)

If sterilization is the goal, then why not use Hydrogen Peroxide. Spray it, no worries for toxicities etc.. All over cheaply available.. 

Next to that if you do a search on how it works. Chlore or affiliated products, attack the germs nucleus, it can develop resistance against it. Than Hydrogen Peroxide workins priciple is oxidation process, it burns the crap out of the germs shell, resistance is futile.


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## ian_m (21 Feb 2018)

zozo said:


> If sterilization is the goal, then why not use Hydrogen Peroxide. Spray it, no worries for toxicities etc.. All over cheaply available..


There are major issues with, hydrogen peroxide, which is why you don't see it freely available in larger quantities the cleaning products section of your super market.

It costs considerably more than standard bleach, approximately 10 x the cost.
It has to be preferably stored in dark, prefarable glass containers (therefore expensive), as it will decompose in presense of light.
It just decomposes naturally due to presence of impurities. This is the biggest issue for use in home (and industry), for disinfecting solutions, in that it can easily and silently decompose to such a weak solution that it has little disinfection abilities. The end user would be unaware of lack of disinfection abilities.
Decomposes in presence of many inorganic salts, fine particles and metals. Thus if you are trying disinfect something very dirty (eg muddy or metalic) you may fail due to all the hydrogen peroxide decomposing first.
The partial decomposition can lead to mottling where areas have decomposed and other areas have not.
For full disinfection abilities it has to be quite strong, above 2-3%, and at this strength attacks lots of other things very well eg hands, plastics, rubber and lots of things you wouldn't want damaged.
Tranport of large quantities hydrogen peroxide is hard. To reduce cost it is transported at higher concentrations, but above 12% (maybe 30%) lots of special regulations apply due to explosion and fire risk. This does risk and cost does not exist with standard bleach.
Not saying bleach is immune to all the above, but this is why you see bleach more commonly available than H2O2.


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## zozo (21 Feb 2018)

Cheap available is indeed very relative to the amounts and frequency you plan to use it. I pay 0.70 € cent for a 110ml pharmacy bottle. a bit cheaper with 10 at a time. Than € 7 p/L is indeed quite expensive.. But what i use it for i sufice with less than 10 bottles a year.. I know it has a shelf life of 1 month once it is opened, so buyig a cheap litre bottle is o no go.. That's why i go for the 110ml bottles, i wouldn't know for what to use a litre peroxide per month..

Peroxide 3% used be subscribed by dentists if you suffer from bacterial gum infection. But because it was to harsh on the gums for some people they developed some different more mild stuff. It still can be and is used to desinfect e.g. for wounds in general it's sufficient. So the thought it aint strong enough to desinfect a little fishnet? Dunno about that. I actualy do not use it for that purpose, but theoreticaly it should do.

Anyway if you have multiple tanks, considereng the cost of a net, than use a seperate net for each tank and don't mix or swap them. Limits the need for sterilizing and les need for developng hosophobia..


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## Andrew Butler (21 Feb 2018)

Supermarket value bleach is normally unscented etc
I know dentists use this for exactly the same reason.


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## Zeus. (21 Feb 2018)

zozo said:


> Peroxide 3% used be subscribed by dentists if you suffer from bacterial gum infection.



Tends to mainly for anaerobic infections like Acute Ulcerative Gingivitis (AUG) and peritonitis esp with partiality erupted wisdom teeth, But a good professional clean of the area with good home cleaning is a better option, folk like the H2O2 as its a little easier on them. Plus not sure how affectice H2O2 is against the aerobic bacteria


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## zozo (21 Feb 2018)

Andrew Butler said:


> Supermarket value bleach is normally unscented etc
> I know dentists use this for exactly the same reason.



What i see in the supermarket the scented one is useualy also the thicker kinda jelly like bleach in the bent neck bottles for easy applying under the toilet rim and get a bit cosmetic smell in the bathroom.. The unscented one is the regular water thin bleach also in regular bottles. That's what i always look for, if all bleach botles on the shelf have a bent neck, i know i don't have to examine the lables it's all scented.  And indeed in my country too, not all supermarkets sell the regular unscented bleach..


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## Zeus. (21 Feb 2018)

Andrew Butler said:


> I know dentists use this for exactly the same reason.



Or Miltons

Good thing about Miltons is you know is safe where as the cheaper supermarket ones may change there formulas from time to time


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## zozo (21 Feb 2018)

Zeus. said:


> Plus not sure how affectice H2O2 is against the aerobic bacteria



I know it's a bit of a gamble with a lot with all you can find  on the internet. But just did read an article (unfortunately not in english) the working principle of both Chlore and Peroxide.. As described above, Chlore needs to penetrate the cell and affect the bacteria nucleus, so it can develop resistance against chlore products. And peroxide burns the outer cell wall and there for more effective and impossible to develop resistance against that. Kinda makes sense to me and since we don't know when or what is or got chlore resistant in the decades that it is already used? Than there probably something to say about both.

I didn't read on in the article but as far as i did it didn't mention any percentage, obviously higher percentage higher activity..


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## Scorpio1646 (21 Feb 2018)

Household bleach maybe a little cheaper to buy, but then you have to use Prime or a similar product to neutralise the chlorates....no need for this extra step with Milton, just a quick rinse in water to flush out the residual salt.


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## sciencefiction (22 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> Water over 92 degrees C will kill any and all.



That's pretty much what I do. I throw nets, hose, whatever I've used with newly purchased fish in a bucket and then boiling water a couple of times...


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## Keith GH (23 Feb 2018)

Has any one ever used Vinegar mixed with tap water as its an excellent anterseptic and very safe to use around the home.

Keith


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## Swampy (23 Feb 2018)

I use boiling water for sterilising equipment, and have done since the 1980's. Always worked for me.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (23 Feb 2018)

I heard once you can use salt and dip the nets in a strong brine mix. Not sure how effective it is. I use cheap as chips thin bleach from my local budget shop for cleaning diffusers as its easier to rinse off than the normal jelly type bleach.


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## Daneland (27 Feb 2018)

Scorpio1646 said:


> Hi Gaina...Lots of confusion generally surrounding Milton Fluid.
> I set up Milton BabyCare in the UK and can promise you that although Milton Fluid smells like bleach, it is NOT bleach and is completely safe for cleaning fish tanks and associated aquatic equipment.
> Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride. The Milton Fluid in the UK has a strength of 2% sodium hypochlorite.
> What makes Milton Fluid different from bleach is the purification process during manufacture which ensures complete removal of all heavy metal ions which would normally act as a catalyst to chemically break down hypochlorites causing instability. With the heavy ions removed, Milton Fluid decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).
> I use Milton fluid all the time...It is really effective for killing stubborn bacteria and is especially effective when  rinsing out old tanks.



Sodium hypocholorite is bleach. Soduim chloride as you noted is common salt. Milton is 2% bleach.


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## Scorpio1646 (1 Mar 2018)

As I stated above, toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their decomposition, sodium chlorate. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).
I have been to the factory several times that manufactures Milton fluid. They flush and rinse the stainless steel vats and pipes out several times after a batch of household bleach is manufactured so that production of Milton fluid is not contaminated with the heavy metals contained in ordinary household bleach.


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