# Permacon



## zozo (15 Oct 2018)

Anybody experience with this stuff?? Permacon...

It water based coating, that soakes into porous material, concrete, cement, briks etc. about an inch deep.. Than it cures into a gel substance and makes it 100% water proof..

According the properties it should be an ideal coating for any form of wild life pond made for example from rebared cement. Just not sure how this stuff works with draining holes etc.. But for a pond setup withput any drains it should be easy peasy.. Put it on with a ordinary pressurized spray bottle in 2 layers and all should be 100% waterproof for decades.

100% natural and wild life safe.


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## frederick thompson (6 Apr 2019)

zozo said:


> Anybody experience with this stuff?? Permacon...
> 
> It water based coating, that soakes into porous material, concrete, cement, briks etc. about an inch deep.. Than it cures into a gel substance and makes it 100% water proof..
> 
> ...


How much does it cost. And is it fish friendly

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## zozo (6 Apr 2019)

frederick thompson said:


> How much does it cost. And is it fish friendly
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk



It seems to be 100% natural product, non toxic to water life..


Very economical: 1 liter is sufficient for 44 ft2. 
Lifelong guarantee.
Available in 1 / 2,5 / 5 / 10 / 25 Liter.

Starting at £22,97 for 1 litre, going down when litre go up.

https://www.ecoformeurope.co.uk/product/permacon-diy-make-concrete-waterproof/


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## X3NiTH (6 Apr 2019)

I saw this post earlier today (I'm doing stuff with concrete so inevitably it set some gears in motion). Clunky video no narration and no indication of the time scale for the reaction. I noted a large volume of liquid that had a teaspoon of cement added to it and then mixed together followed by a generous heaped teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate with further mixing, I immediately thought that with the amount of cement used I was going to see a waterproof teaspoon sized lump of concreted material getting tipped out the solution, it was quite a surprise then to see the whole cup gel solid beyond the capacity of the cement itself could ever do, very interesting!

Any ways, a little later I was looking up Urea trying to find out more about a sample I have with the formula CH4N2O, I was trying to find out the biuret content and if it was low enough for foliar dosing citrus. Was looking up Carbamide (the listed name for the sample I have) and its breakdown products in water and came across a paper describing gel formation in high alkalinity, further reading brought me to -

Cellulose Carbamate

It goes something like this - If you have a solution of Cellulose Carbamate (magic water) and you add an alkali (a teaspoon of Portland cement) followed by sodium hydroxide (a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate reacting in water) and you give it a good mix (stir with a teaspoon) then the reaction over time causes cross linking of urea crystals with the cellulose fibers and your resultant mixture will gel to form a clear (not with Portland cement) stable solid with good resistivity to breakdown.

If it's not this then it's an exceptionally good candidate considering its price appears to reflect the difficulty in manufacturing it (loads of papers and patents out there on simplifying the process and making it more cost effective).

On that Ecoform Europe website one of the other products has additives to prevent algae and such attaching and is called Oppercon, probably just Permacon but with added copper. 

The Cementmix product however on the site looks really interesting, that I'm definitely going to have to have a go with if it means I can cast stuff in cement and not have to go through a few weeks of normalising the leachate by steeping in a bucket of water.



frederick thompson said:


> How much does it cost. And is it fish friendly.



Quite a penny for what may only be extra salty pulped paper in piss, but from what I've read it justifiably looks worth the price for the waterproofing and it's supposed long term environmental neutrality and stability.


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