# Business Startup



## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

I've just started up my Aquarium Design business, and I'm currently looking (quite desperately) for some companies/charities that might be willing to help "young people" start up in business. I've tried the Princes Trust who basically told me I don't qualify because I was employed for more than 2 hours a week, and had half a brain tucked down in my foot (and I'm not a single parent). I've also tried a local charity shop who do this kind of thing, but not heard back yet.

Anyone know of something/someone that might be able to help financially, just for starters? Just so as I can buy the necessary equipment I'm going to need, put a down payment on leasing a van, or help with advertising costs (which have cleaned me out!)?

I know there are organisations like this out there, so if you know of any please let me know and I will apply!

Cheers, 
Tom


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## Dan Crawford (18 Sep 2008)

Well i don't know about cash as such but what "equipment" do you need, no doubt some of us, certainly me, have some things going spare???

I'll do the graphics on your van for free, i can also do your design/advertising but after seeing your ADA assignment i don't think you need it


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

> I'll do the graphics on your van for free



That sounds like a great offer Dan, very kind of you    I might have to take you up on that when I actually have a van - my Micra might not quite cut it! I have a brochure and some flyers ready that I have designed, as well as a general aquarium care guide for each customer not requiring my maintenance service. 



> Well i don't know about cash as such but what "equipment" do you need, no doubt some of us, certainly me, have some things going spare???



I wasn't intending to scrounge off of the forum, but it's basic things I'd need to buy such as test kits, various hosing (for both water changes and also filtration), reel of airline, silicone, maintenance tools etc etc etc. 

The main thing really is trying to get some sort of a grant to start leasing a van as I know the money is available. Just don't know where to apply to. Until then, I'd have to have the supplier deliver larger items (tanks/cabinets over 3') to the customer's door.

Tom


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## Dan Crawford (18 Sep 2008)

Tom said:
			
		

> That sounds like a great offer Dan, very kind of you    I might have to take you up on that when I actually have a van -


No probs pal, just let me know when, you'll have to spend an evening at mine though   i know how much you wanna critique my tanks  


> I'd have to have the supplier deliver larger items (tanks/cabinets over 3') to the customer's door.


Thats not ideal is it? maybe the lease company would give you discount if we advertised the lease company on the back doors "this van for only Â£250 per month (logo)" kind of thing and then your logos and info on either side?
If you like that idea i can knock up a design for you to send in your proposal.


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

> No probs pal, just let me know when, you'll have to spend an evening at mine though  i know how much you wanna critique my tanks



Ohhh I'll survive!



> Thats not ideal is it? maybe the lease company would give you discount if we advertised the lease company on the back doors "this van for only Â£250 per month (logo)" kind of thing and then your logos and info on either side?
> If you like that idea i can knock up a design for you to send in your proposal.



Not ideal at all, nope. Might be able to pay a man-with-a-van as an alternative for now. I will check the lease pricing. I've got an idea on monthly figures, but not sure about down payments yet, and of course discounts! I'll get in contact with the companies aboot that...  

Tom


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## a1Matt (18 Sep 2008)

I don't have any help that I can provide.  I just wanted to give a bit of a moral support by saying I have the utmost respect for anyone that sets up a business for themselves.  I wish you all the best with it


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

Thank you Matt


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## Thomas McMillan (18 Sep 2008)

I don't know of any companies or organisations really. I know that there is definately somewhere out there though, it's just finding it. You've probably dont it a thousand times already, but Google?

I'm crap with graphics but I could design a website for free if you'd like?

Good luck with everything.


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

> I'm crap with graphics but I could design a website for free if you'd like?
> 
> Good luck with everything.



A website is one thing I will really need to do, but just don't have software or knowhow to get it on the web. I'll PM you!   

Tom


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## Thomas McMillan (18 Sep 2008)

Tom said:
			
		

> > I'm crap with graphics but I could design a website for free if you'd like?
> >
> > Good luck with everything.
> 
> ...



Don't worry about that, I could set it up for you so that you've got a control panel type thing where you can just edit the plain text of the site etc.

But sure, PM me.


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

> Don't worry about that, I could set it up for you so that you've got a control panel type thing where you can just edit the plain text of the site etc.
> 
> But sure, PM me.



Just have, but now you've said that the first half of my PM is irrelevant!

Tom


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## George Farmer (18 Sep 2008)

Dragons' Den?!  

Seriously though mate, I'm assuming you've checked out the main sites like this  - http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac ... 805&r.s=tl


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## Tom (18 Sep 2008)

I've literally just been looking on there. Looks like a lot of very good info. Quite surprised as it's a government site!    Must be about a year's worth of reading though.

Looking for public liability insurance too now by the looks of things.


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## George Farmer (18 Sep 2008)

Tom said:
			
		

> Quite surprised as it's a government site!    Must be about a year's worth of reading though.
> 
> Looking for public liability insurance too now by the looks of things.



Don't be so surprised.  The better you do, the more the tax man sees... 

Yes, you need insurance.  I learnt the hard way and have my own now too.


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## aaronnorth (18 Sep 2008)

so what are you going to do?

Help other people set up a fish tank?


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## Joecoral (18 Sep 2008)

Try an get some empty 25kg salt buckets from an LFS, most will probably give you them for free. One thing you will ALWAYS need is lots of buckets! Charity shops for old towels/bathmats to put on the floor too. Sponges, gravel syphon, razor blades, pond dechlor etc etc (im sure you know all this )
Friend of mine has a similar business, I think the liability insurance comes to either Â£30 or Â£50 a month (i forget which) and covers him up to something like Â£5 million (although I may have dreamt this, I cannot remember lol)


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## JamesM (18 Sep 2008)

Good luck Tom 

I'd like to hear more of your plans, and if you need a hand with any web or graphics work, I'm happy to help


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## Thomas McMillan (18 Sep 2008)

I just thought, couldn't somewhere like Aqua Essentials help you out a bit? I thought they were always helping PFK and UKAPS out


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## bugs (18 Sep 2008)

Apologies if I've missed the point but...

...you have a car but want to buy/lease a van? Why not keep your costs down and use your car to start off with?

Spend your money on targeted advertising. You can get on the web for the cost of a domain name and some free web design I've already seen offered (hosting can be had for free too) so that's one avenue. Don't waste any money on it though - it's the equivalent of putting a post-it note on a tree in the middle of a forest if you don't have good advertising directing people to the site where you can then showcase your work.

Do you have a portfolio or are your literally at the start-up stage?

Who are you targetting as customers? If it's commercial - what are you citing as the commercial benefit? In the present climate they'll mostly be looking for a return on the investment. Are you limiting yourself to planted tanks? I think it's Elemis that has cichlid tanks in retailers stores - is there any mileage in latching on to their business for your area?

Still thinking...


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## LondonDragon (18 Sep 2008)

Sounds like a good venture Tom, good luck with everything, if you need help setting up the website let me know also.
I have setup a few for friends, nothing too fancy but something that works well. All the best 

Also if you need cheap realiable hosting I know a good company, they also sell cheap domains.


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## Thomas McMillan (18 Sep 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Sounds like a good venture Tom, good luck with everything, if you need help setting up the website let me know also.
> I have setup a few for friends, nothing too fancy but something that works well. All the best
> 
> Also if you need cheap realiable hosting I know a good company, they also sell cheap domains.



Just out of interest, what's the company if you don't mind me asking?


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## teg1203 (18 Sep 2008)

Joecoral said:
			
		

> Friend of mine has a similar business, I think the liability insurance comes to either Â£30 or Â£50 a month (i forget which) and covers him up to something like Â£5 million (although I may have dreamt this, I cannot remember lol)



If you dream about public liability insurance I recommend a long, long holiday - somewhere warm and possibly padded. 

I should imagine with water, electricity and heavy weights you are looking at quite a hefty bill with public liability. But, I believe it will be worth every penny for piece of mind. Sounds like an exciting venture Tom, good luck.


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## LondonDragon (18 Sep 2008)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Just out of interest, what's the company if you don't mind me asking?


No worries, its these guys, I have an account with them which I host various pages for family and friends: http://www.eukhost.com/index.php

Good Cpanel access, FTP uploads, good webmail interface and POP mail, MySQL databases for forums etc.. all for less than Â£30 a year including domain


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## bugs (18 Sep 2008)

Try FREE (don't be put off by the bandwidth per month - build the site properly and it'll support a fair few visitors before you'll need to upgrade): http://www.freevirtualservers.com/free-hosting.htm

They're reliable and demonstrate good customer care. (I'm not affiliated!)


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## nickyc (18 Sep 2008)

Hi Tom,

George pointed you at a great source of info - there are some pages particularly targeting the East of England.  There should be details of one Enterprise Agency who are contracted to provide all the business start up advice in your area - if you can't find it easily then just call them and get a referral.  Although the info is comprehensive, sometimes finding the grants can be like finding a needle in a haystack!  An adviser is the key to finding your way through the system.  Sometimes they'll want to see that you are investing too, so don't just plead poverty - add up all you are spending already including your unpaid time.

They should also have some free training for you and possibly longer term access to a business mentor.  My b/f has been self employed for years but still got quite a bit of benefit from talking things through with a business mentor as it can be quite a lonely business working for yourself.  

Bizarrely it's also worth talking to the tax office these days.  They now pride themselves on being able to save you money on your accountant!!  I think they finally worked out that most people want to pay the right amount of tax and are happy to help you work out what that should be.  

Bugs has some very sound advice!  You might have to do some thinking and really go out with some ideas of how this can make money for other people.  

As someone else said, I always really rate someone who goes self employed.  Good luck with it and keep us all posted!  People here are always full of ideas which will help you.  And you've had some really generous offers of help!


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## Joecoral (18 Sep 2008)

teg1203 said:
			
		

> somewhere warm and possibly padded



I'm sure my other half would agree with you on that point


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## Superman (18 Sep 2008)

I wish I'd know somewhere to help you, I'll have a look at the Lloyds TSB (HBOS!) Business Startup schemes at work. They might have some deals going.

I would of offered Website Design and Hosting as I'm building up a portfolio of clients at the minute but seems like you've already got that covered.


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## Tom (19 Sep 2008)

> Apologies if I've missed the point but...
> 
> ...you have a car but want to buy/lease a van? Why not keep your costs down and use your car to start off with?
> 
> ...



Bugs - I have a car, yes, but being a Micra it would be difficult to fit any more than a 3' tank in. I've done a 4' but it's uncomfortable trust me! As I said earlier I could have the supplier deliver to the door, or pay someone (my dad maybe) to take the back seats out of the family car to help me out for now. 6' tanks will still be a problem for now though. 

I don't have a portfolio yet, as I haven't technically launched the business yet. Only a couple of brochures given out locally so far. The only tanks I could have on a website, and those I have used as backgrounds etc on my brochures are my high tech planted ones as they look vaguely presentable! The problem is that they would be immensely expensive to install and maintain (more than marine in terms of maintenance) that I hesitate to have them in a portfolio just yet. I also have the low tech I set up for my parents which I can easily replicate with no problems and low maintenance costs for the client. 

The main clients to be targeted at the start will be the likes of the doctors, dentists and similar places with waiting rooms (thanks nickyc!) where the relaxing qualities of an aquarium will be put to good use. This might also have a good return for me if I offer an installation at cost, just for advertising purposes. Schools can also be a target. Although they may not have a huge budget, if I push that it can be of educational use to the students, I'm sure the money can be made available. Ipswich School have already expressed an interest.  

Once I start to build up my portfolio, I will move onto the larger businesses in the area for installations in entrance foyers and the like. Private clients also have good potential around here, as there is no shortage of money locally. I just need to convince them that they can't live without one   .

I won't be limiting myself to plants, not. If I can, I'll possibly try and steer around high tech setups until I get the experience the maintenance of clients tanks. Things like Malawis will be an idea to push for starters as they are easy but can look stunning! Simple, but not crap like some companies I won't mention! I'll also offer brackish, as they are so under appreciated IMO. Of course if the customer wants plants I will not refuse!

Seems like I'm kind of publishing my business plan online!!   

I haven't heard of Elemis, do you have any contact details? I've tried google... :? 



> George pointed you at a great source of info - there are some pages particularly targeting the East of England. There should be details of one Enterprise Agency who are contracted to provide all the business start up advice in your area - if you can't find it easily then just call them and get a referral. Although the info is comprehensive, sometimes finding the grants can be like finding a needle in a haystack! An adviser is the key to finding your way through the system. Sometimes they'll want to see that you are investing too, so don't just plead poverty - add up all you are spending already including your unpaid time.
> 
> They should also have some free training for you and possibly longer term access to a business mentor. My b/f has been self employed for years but still got quite a bit of benefit from talking things through with a business mentor as it can be quite a lonely business working for yourself.
> 
> ...



nickyc - Yes I'm now using business Link and following their business progress thing. Thinks of everything so you don't miss bits out. As a sole trader there's lots I perhaps don't legally need to cover, but it's all good to know. 

I'm investing a lot of time in the startup. I'm lucky too in the fact I will have comparatively low overheads for starting up - just the necessary equipment and advertising I've already mentioned.

Thanks for your help and pointers there! Really useful, thanks again 



> If you dream about public liability insurance I recommend a long, long holiday - somewhere warm and possibly padded.
> 
> I should imagine with water, electricity and heavy weights you are looking at quite a hefty bill with public liability. But, I believe it will be worth every penny for piece of mind. Sounds like an exciting venture Tom, good luck.



I did put in all the details to get a quote, but they haven't contacted me with a price yet!    Probably thinking "and he expects us to cover him for THAT???" lol 



> I just thought, couldn't somewhere like Aqua Essentials help you out a bit? I thought they were always helping PFK and UKAPS out



I'll look into it. And The Green Machine if you're reading this?    

I really appreciate everyone taking an interest and giving advice! Thanks 

Cheers,

Tom


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## aaronnorth (19 Sep 2008)

also places like restaurants & spa treatment places are very popular to have tanks.

Best of luck


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## bugs (19 Sep 2008)

Sounds like a plan. 

Think I may have got the wrong brand earlier on. Think it may be: http://www.cremedelamer.co.uk (aka: Creme de la Mer)


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## bugs (19 Sep 2008)

bugs said:
			
		

> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> Think I may have got the wrong brand earlier on. Think it may be: http://www.cremedelamer.co.uk (aka: Creme de la Mer)



Elemis is a brand - just not the one with the tanks!

Does public liability cover potential health risks associated with fish tanks (TB, Salmonella, etc)? If you're thinking of medical practitioners you may need to consider this. Hospitals (I appreciate this is a whole different ball game...) don't seem to even allow flowers any more.

Restaurants and the like seem like good ones to pick off. Perhaps you could offer lobster tanks


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## Tom (19 Sep 2008)

I'm not sure if public liability covers that, but I would have thought so - maybe it's just property damage though... needs checking...

The lobster tanks aren't such a silly idea you know!


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## bugs (19 Sep 2008)

Tow bar and trailer may be the answer when it comes to extra large tanks. You can even get "roof" racks for trailers which allow you to carry longer loads on top of the trailer rather than inside. You could even get a box trailer if you wanted to keep everything secure inside.

I'm guessing the money is to be had on the maintenance side of things rather than installation. Once you've installed, unless you plan to expand and employ, then you'll probably get away with just using your car.


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## Tom (19 Sep 2008)

From research I've done, it seems that maintenance can be anywhere from Â£40 a time +. I've set my rates lower than that though, until things pick up. 

My dad has a trailer, but not sure if my car would cope!   I can't see many of the smaller businesses I am targeting wanting over a 4' tank, so I should be OK for now - I've had a 4' in the car before. When I hit the bigger businesses I may need to sort out the trailer/van issue. Depends how the demand goes. For one-off's I can pay someone with a van.


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## bugs (19 Sep 2008)

Just looked at your Flickr gallery... Think you should go in to photography - very impressed, best I've seen in a very long time.


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## Tom (19 Sep 2008)

Thanks   It does help when doing tank photos!


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## Tom (27 Sep 2008)

Does anyone know any suppliers of nice rocks and wood? I spoke to Unipac at Glee and apparrently they would have trouble giving me any less than a ton in one go - not quite what I had in mind!

Basically looking for stuff like fossilised wood, mini landscape rocks, branchy driftwood, etc etc. The only trouble I can see is I would get what I'm given, rather than picking it out myself. 

Tom


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## san-ho-zay (27 Sep 2008)

> I'm not sure if public liability covers that, but I would have thought so - maybe it's just property damage though... needs checking...


Employers Liability covers employees' losses while working for an employer. It's compulsory unless you are a one-man band or purely family business.

Public Liability covers other people's losses directly caused by the company.

Professional Indemnity covers you for claims against you for losses resulting from acting on your advice.

Make sure you get good legal advice putting contracts together and checking your insurance .

This might be useful, if you've not seen it ...

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac ... 799&r.s=tl


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## Tom (27 Sep 2008)

Thank you.

That professional indemnity looks like it will be needed than, as well as public liability. No need for employers liability - I'm on me own!


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## Tom (3 Oct 2008)

Is there a way to turn a Publisher file into a PDF? I want to get my new brochures printed properly as it's cheaper and better than I can do myself. Trouble is, they want a PDF file and I've made them in Publisher because for some reason I found it gave a better print quality  :?  Is there a way to convert it? Even JPG is OK

Tom


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## a1Matt (3 Oct 2008)

Tom said:
			
		

> Is there a way to turn a Publisher file into a PDF? I want to get my new brochures printed properly as it's cheaper and better than I can do myself. Trouble is, they want a PDF file and I've made them in Publisher because for some reason I found it gave a better print quality  :?  Is there a way to convert it? Even JPG is OK
> 
> Tom



There is a probably a number of ways to do it.  I have never used publisher, ut I owuld be surprised if there is not a 'save as' or 'export' option to jpg.

If you can't do it within the program then this online converter will do it for you:

http://convert.neevia.com/


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## Tom (3 Oct 2008)

There's no option in Save As... I'll look at that website now

Tom


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## a1Matt (3 Oct 2008)

You might want to consider degradation in quality which can be introduced when converting. jpg is a lossy format so will definitely reuce quality.  The Adobe convertor may\may not. If it does lose quality I would be inclinced to send them (whoever them is, presumably your printing company!) a list of file types that publisher can save as and ask them to advise what is best.  Good luck


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## Tom (3 Oct 2008)

The company I would go with said PDF only, and he couldn't go with.pub or whatever else publisher chucks out :S Looks like I'm printing them myself! That conversion program didn't like the .pub either   

I did make them in photoshop originally but for some reason when it printed the writing came out all pixelated. I transferred the backgrounds into publisher and re-did the writing and it came out well. But.... that's all very well if I'm printing them myself but that's an expensive way of doing it (about Â£1 a brochure) Printers was half that.


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## a1Matt (3 Oct 2008)

pdf only is not very helpful   I guess it gives them an easy life which could translate into cheaper prices for you.

We have some copies of Acrobat writer at work here, so if you get stuck with that website I'll see if I can get the file converted for you.  Lucky my boss isn't here today so I should be able to get away with it


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## aaronnorth (3 Oct 2008)

you can right click and choose program to open it with anyway and most people can do it this way or you can right click and go to properties and change what kind of file it is and what it can be opened with

or go to - file, print, click on drop down list, PDF printer, save

Not sure if the 2nd option is the same on every computer though


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## TDI-line (3 Oct 2008)

Hi Tom,

just wishing you good luck in your new venture, and i hope you do very well. 5'm sure you will.  

I've also hedged my bets into a new business, a heating and plumbing company based around Peterborough. I've just left British Gas after 20 years and have ploughed my savings into this. So, sink or swim.

And now my Blyxa scape is covered in hair algae after neglect, oh well.  

regards,

Dan C.


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## a1Matt (3 Oct 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> you can right click and choose program to open it with anyway and most people can do it this way or you can right click and go to properties and change what kind of file it is and what it can be opened with



Don't do this, it will only change your PC's associations, which will not help at all, as the file will remain unchanged.



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> or go to - file, print, click on drop down list, PDF printer, save
> 
> Not sure if the 2nd option is the same on every computer though



This is only available if you have Adobe Acrobat Writer installed.  (Which costs Â£Â£Â£ as per most Adobe products   )

If your still having problems -  I'll next have access to a PC with Adobe writer on it on Monday. PM me your email, I'll reply with mine, you email me the file, I email it back as pdf, bish bash bosh, bobs your aunties live in lover, all sorted.


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## a1Matt (3 Oct 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> Hi Tom,
> 
> just wishing you good luck in your new venture, and i hope you do very well. 5'm sure you will.
> 
> ...



Wishing you luck too Dan.


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## Angus1 (5 Oct 2008)

Good luck with your buiness 

If you want a school to try have a look at acle high school, itd be great to have somthing remotly interesting at school  

Angus


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## Sye Davies (5 Oct 2008)

be aware that customers will not have the same appreciation of tanks that you will.

if a fish gets ill it will have to be removed IMMEDIATLY...........they will not want to hear "the tank will be a funny colour while treating"

they will want a "perfect" looking tank at ALL times with no effort on their part..........that is what they are paying you for.

if they want a change of scenery you will need to provide it swiftly.........what will you do with the fish?

remember you will have paid for them and they will need to "recycled" in the business.....................a fish house would be useful.

you may find it difficult getting aquatic companies and wholesalers to supply you.

im not trying to put you off and wish you every luck with your venture...........im just trying to highlight some potential difficulties


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## George Farmer (6 Oct 2008)

Wise words from Sye there.  

I'm sure Jeremy Gay has given some similar advice to Tom too.



> you may find it difficult getting aquatic companies and wholesalers to supply you.



Dennerle have proved that point already, apparently...

Adapt and overcome, Tom.  All the best.


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## Tom (6 Oct 2008)

Thanks for the advice, some good points there.

I think the main problem I am having with wholesalers is the minimum order price to be honest. Such as ALF's Â£350. That's OK if I get all the equipment from there, but if someone wants say a small Juwel tank, it won't work. Tropica's Â£100 minimum should work, providing the person has a decent size tank, and I can get some for my 2footer as well


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## Sye Davies (6 Oct 2008)

i have a shop and sometimes find it difficult to meet minimum order some weeks.

to be honest i thought about doing this years ago. i spoke in depth to a friend who has his own specialist reef shop, and the conclusion we came to is a fish house is a must. a large amount of stock will need to be held including tanks. massive amounts of mature filtration.......(punters wont want to know about the nitrogen cycle).................therefore open a shop.

so i did  

what about speaking to a shop about a trade account................they will sell you goods at a reduced price. okay so the markup wont be as good but you wont have the hassle of having to buy and store stock etc. start part time and build the business up that way.


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## bugs (6 Oct 2008)

Re the PDF problem... Download a free PDF creator (I think there's one called PDF Creator). It'll then turn up as a printer. Print your file to PDF.


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## aaronnorth (19 Jun 2009)

did you follow this through Tom? How's everything going?


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## Tom (19 Jun 2009)

I did, but barely got a sniff. When I started full time at Swallows I stopped advertising and I didn't have much free time anyway. First "job" I've got doing this will be at Ipswich school, and I have all their equipment (inc Rio180) sitting next to me waiting for them to give a date. The photography seems more promsing at the moment!   

Tom


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## rawr (19 Jun 2009)

I think photography is more appealing, with this being more niche. It would be a great small business though.


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