# Heavily Planted to No Plants?



## Tom Raffield (23 Jun 2020)

Hi everyone,

It has been a couple of years since I last posted on these forums and in the past these forums have helped me out no end (check my old posts). I am turning to the forums again now for some important advice. To keep this post relatively short and concise I will try and summarise quickly!

*Setup:* Juwel Vision 260, Fluval FX4, custom spray bar, pressurised CO2, EI dosing ferts, stock lighting tubes (a few years old) and a mix of eco-complete and gravel base which was put in when the tank started about four years ago. 
*Livestock:* pentazona barbs, neons, cherry barbs, amano shrimp. Very small number considering tank size. 
*Plants: *amazon swords, hygrophilia polysperma, java fern, crypts, moss balls and a large piece of wood. 
*Routine: *CO2 on for about 8 hours a day, Lights for about 6. 40-50% water change every week. No space for substrate cleaning. 

*My situation!* I have a 17 month old daughter and another little one on the way in February; this means that I now have very limited time and funds. I do not like my tank at the moment and have become quite down about the whole hobby over the last year. For many, many months the plants have never really been that good - even my amazon swords get covered in pin holes with black edges and look unhealthy. The polysperma lower leaves go back edged and break apart. The crypts are covered in black flecks over the leaves.  I can't see how more ferts or more CO2 will help the problem. I have made numerous changes at great cost to the filtration, water turnover and spray bar. I can't do anymore. I have toyed with the idea of breaking the tank down and getting rid of everything but felt this would be a shame considering the years I have had it. 

Ideally I need to scale down to a tank which requires the minimal amount of maintenance and minimum amount of cost outlay. As such I have considered the following options but have no idea if they are sensible or realistic: 

Reduce and eventually remove the CO2 and dose no ferts and attempt to keep the plants or at least some of the plants. 
Scale down the CO2 and ferts input to try and make the tank more manageable. 
Remove all plants and equipment and move to a fish only tank with the possibility of adding more wood for a wood only scape. 
Rip out all the plants and old eco-complete/gravel and go to a fish only tank or wood only tank. 
Are any of these possible? Would these changes cause more problems than I currently have in terms of algae etc? What advice would you give to someone who is on a knife edge about the hobby? Please help. 

Many thanks in advance.


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## sparkyweasel (24 Jun 2020)

I would gradually reduce the CO2 and ferts, ending with no CO2 and just a minimal dose of ferts. Keep the temperature low, 22degC would be OK. Lower it gradually if it's higher. That should reduce maintenance time and running costs.
Maybe get some more crypts, - tall ones to replace your stems for less trimming.
A pic of the tank might inspire some more ideas.
hth


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## rebel (24 Jun 2020)

Suggest reducing light levels and keep everything the same initially. Your tank will probably improve but if it doesn't then you can trim and start to wind it down slowly. If it improves, maybe you find the spark.

Otherwise I would do a total teardown and concentrate on the important things in life that you mentioned.

You can always return when baby is around 5. I  had to give up my tanks when toddlers were running around the place due to risk of it falling on them.


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## Tom Raffield (24 Jun 2020)

Thanks for the ideas. I'll post a photo of the tank as it is later on today when I get home from work.


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## PARAGUAY (24 Jun 2020)

Why not use mainly ferns anubis on rock and wood . Non CO2 .As Sparky suggests crypts rather than stems .Keep a low fish group. There are some quite stunning moss ,java fern, anubis Bruce  on rock and wood with both our plant sponsors would give instant impact. Using EA Aquascaper fertiliser takes out the guesswork


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## rubadudbdub (24 Jun 2020)

I was in the same position a few years ago.  I'm very happy with how the tank is now (rio 125).   When the house falls quiet after the kids have gone to bed I'm glad I have my tank to sit next to and enjoy.   Plus as the kids get older they'll sit and look at it. 

I agree with advice above.  Change to low tech.  You'll have to lower the light levels otherwise you'll get algae.  I think you've got 2 T5s on the vision tank.  Foil rings around the tubes can work, I found they got tatty quite quickly.  Floating plants work very well, just don't add duckweed as it becomes a PITA.   Ive got water lettuce and salvinia (plus duckweed that I now can't get rid of).   I dose EI salts made up into a macro and micro bottle. I dose according to the floating plant growth, Darrels duckweed index, you can find it on here.  Once a week max, often less. 

I'd prepare to loose the hygrophila and any other stem plants, if they get too leggy.  Stick to crypts that rarely need pruning.  Bucephelandra, sagittaria, anubias, limnophila, java fern and moss, will all grow. I know because that's what's in mine. 

The only thing I'd invest in is a water change system like the python.  If moneys tight you can buy the individual valve for about £12, but you'll have to get a length of hose and a hook (I use an outlet from an unused cannister filter) for the tank end to suck out from and return the water.  Aim to make life easy for yourself.    My daughter made a game of dropping toys in the fresh water buckets while I was draining the tank.  

For the filter.  I don't know if the fx4 have pipework that will fit an in tank prefilter.   The fx6 ive seen had huge pipes.   Having a decent prefilter and removing fine foams from the cannister will reduce the amount you have to open the cannister.  Just a square foam over the pipe will do, then hide it behind the plants so its less visible. 

Doing this would be a stepping stone to removing everything should you wish. But I really doubt it'd be less work.


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## alan'67 (24 Jun 2020)

I guess it depends  if you would like to keep plants in the tank or not. If you do, I would fish out the critters into a container and strip the tank down.

Then either follow Tim's superb guide on making  a low tech dirt tank or cheat a little and buy some JBL Manado topped with Sansibar sand.

Even low tech, I have seen superb growth in Amazon Swords using just the above without CO2 and next to no ferts.

I would consider using Darrel's  Duckweed method to check on plant health, plus the growth from the weed may help reduce the light from those bright T5's.

If you want to try the fish only route, would you consider rehoming you current stock and trying something like dwarf Rift Lake Valley Cichlids?.

You have the right tank size and filtration and a small group of Pseudotropheus  Saulosi would fit in nicely. One male to five females should be fine.

They do require a rock hardscape, plus ideally a sand substrate... and being honest, good quality fish are quite expensive!. 

Plus of course they do require hard water which if that's what you get from your tap, then keeping them healthy just became a lot easier. 

They are superb fish to keep and very rewarding when you spot the first fry hiding among the rocks.

Local fish shops will always want to get hold of good quality tank bred fish so you will always be able to thin out the tank as the numbers grow.

Best of luck what ever you decide to do.


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## Tom Raffield (24 Jun 2020)

Thanks again for the suggestions. I have attached some photos of the tank from today.

I think my best plan is to reduce light, CO2 and ferts and go for a lower tech setup. Stripping the the tank sounds like the best plan but I don't have the ability to save much tank water. Or would you suggest rescaping with the majority of water in situ?

Would I be able to inject limited amounts of CO2 from my pressurised cylinder or would I be better places reducing and removing CO2 altogether? I have micro and macro fertilisers which I currently dose to a high level daily so I can easily scale that down.

My light tubes are fairly old. One was replaced within the year and the other is well over two years old. Should I reduce lighting to just a few hours in the evening when I am home to benefit (summer is not a problem) but should this routine change in winter?

I will have a look at the plants and guidance mentioned in this thread, thanks for the heads up to see what I can make of it.

In a week or two I will have an 7 week stretch without work so can dedicate some time to this. The question is. What should I do and when to make this process as stress free as possible for the fish.

I know I sound all up in the air and indecisive at the moment, but I guess that is because I really am! I do apologise for this. I am stumbling around in the dark on this one and will really need some spoon feeding and hand holding to get me out the other side.


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## sparkyweasel (24 Jun 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> In a week or two I will have an 7 week stretch without work so can dedicate some time to this. The question is. What should I do and when to make this process as stress free as possible for the fish.


The only serious stress factor I can foresee is that when you uproot the _hygrophila _and plant its replacement (tall crypts or whatever) it will disturb the substrate, which may be quite dirty. I would replace about a third or a quarter of the stems at a time, and follow that with a water change, syphoning out as much of the muck that gets stirred up as possible. You might need to clean your filter sooner than expected too. Watch the fish, and do another water change if they show signs of stress in the next few days. Repeat after  a few days until all the stems are replaced.
I can't see any plants in your pics that would struggle in lo-tech.


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## Tom Raffield (25 Jun 2020)

Thanks again everyone.

I think I will try and go from my current setup to a low tech setup in the coming weeks. A whole strip down does concern me so I may try and keep the substrate (will the old eco-complete cause any issues?) but give it a good cleaning as I go. I do have a python which I use for water changed and also have a gravel vac which I can use whilst removing some of the hygrophilia. 

I will keep my pressurised cylinder and lower the bubble count slowly. Would a little CO2 being added be beneficial? Obviously I won't aim for green drop checkers anymore. 

Light is always my biggest bug bear as I never know if I have too much or too little. It is not as simple as just cutting the time down. Perhaps I need to go to one tube and cover one of them? 

I haven't heard of this duckweed method but it does sound interesting so I will have a look when I find it. I have also never had floating plants as I thought they would be hard to grow but if they may help me run my tank and show me whats happening then it is well worth exploring.


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## rubadudbdub (25 Jun 2020)

There are different ways to do it with pros and cons.  Given that your time is limited going with what you have seems sensible. Especially given that it looks like you've got a load of crypts that'll be fine on low tech. 



Tom Raffield said:


> keep the substrate (will the old eco-complete cause any issues?)




I moved from a rather unsuccessful high tech to low tech and kept the same gravel over tetra substrate.  So long as it's not full of uneaten food or anaerobic the ecocomplete should be fine. It is now mature and full of root complexes that will be contributing to the health of the substrate, so why loose that? 

If you pull up the hygrophila a quick gravel hoover seems sensible.  Although you could just leave them for now and see how they go. 




Tom Raffield said:


> Light..... Perhaps I need to go to one tube and cover one of them?



I may be wrong but I didn't think you could go down to one tube on the juwel T5s.   Removing one tube will leave the lamp holders exposed on that side.    I'm not sure whether the starter will fire up with only one tube.  

Other options:
My arcadia reflectors fit underneath the tube, ie reflecting upwards.  Foil rings as mentioned.  But I'd really recommend floating plants.  Salvinia, water lettuce and duckweed are what I've got.  Others have used frogbit.  They're easy.   You may have to change your spray bar if they're getting hammered by the flow.   You may find other options for reducing light by searching on here. 



Tom Raffield said:


> Co2 leave it on a bit..


Slowly titrating down seems sensible.   I'm not really the one to advise on Co2.  I recall a Tom Barr article about adaptions plants aquire to optimise co2 use in low tech.  Common sense suggests going from high co2 to low tech the plants will be accustomed to co2 and ill adapted if it suddenly stops.  

Duckweed index: Just look at your floating plants (non co2 limited) , do they look a bit pale or small leaves?  If so add ferts. That's all I do.  Admittedly there's a more technical way of identifying exactly which nutrient you're short of depending on the plant deficiency.  But my idiots way has served me well so far. 


If it were me, first thing I'd do is reduce the light.  I'd use floating plants, all my tanks have them.  Then you can reduce the co2.  Then pull out whatever plants don't survive the transition.


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## rubadudbdub (25 Jun 2020)

Here's how you can fit reflectors upside down.    It does make the tank illumination look a little odd. 




This is what my tank looks like doing all the stuff I mentioned.  Although usually there are more floating plants in a mat covering the surface.   I thinned them out yesterday.  There's BBA on the anubias and it won't win any awards but it's easy to look after.


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## alto (25 Jun 2020)

If these are T5 lamps, there is usually a selection of normal output, high output, very high output (determined by lamp phosphors)

As tank is 64cm tall, even VHOT5 with reflectors won’t deliver anything more than moderate light at the substrate level
Rather than trying to add foil rings or some such, use floating plants to “control” light levels -

Limnobium laevigatum
(I suspect that @dw1305 will send you all you might want for the postage ... and likely other ukaps folk as well  - once you’ve decided what you’d like going forward)

The biggest factor in algae is lack of healthy plant growth (I read back through all your post history and I’d guess this has been a constant factor)

Given that the substrate hasn’t really been cleaned since tank set up AND that algae has been a relatively constant issue, I’d essentially reset the tank when your break begins (do regular water changes in the meantime, and you can just transfer fish to a bin with maybe 50% tank/50% tap; and discard the rest of the water)

You’ve few fish and these can easily be maintained in any food safe bin, choose something like a 60-70l bin so you can run your old Juwel filter in there with some media from the FX4
(Or @Geoffrey Rea Summer Tubbing bin)

For plant storage while cleaning/rescaping
(this is much better than having plants lying flat for even a few days)



Then either clean your substrate in situ



Or remove gravel and rinse elsewhere

Or remove gravel and just use a thin layer of coarse sand/fine gravel and aim for this type of scape

Felipe Oliveira FB page photo of his rescaped kitchen tank
(video to follow)

In this style of scape there is only small amount of aquarium soil used in specific plant areas and many of the plants are epiphytes placed on rock and wood
(while you can use alternates to branded aquarium soils, they do perform very well, in your case I’d use Tropica or similar “light” soil rather than ADA (which is much higher in nutrients and recommends/requires daily water changes for the first weeks))


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## Tom Raffield (27 Jun 2020)

Thanks for your suggestions @alto. 

Having read the advice, I think I want to keep the tank (I have had at least one tank on the go for over 15 years so I would probably regret going to nothing). 

Going to a low-tech sounds achievable and I can at least maintain a very low level of CO2 (mainly for algae control). I am running two T5 Arcadia tubes at the moment (natural and marine blue) with the natural being a few months old and the blue is a good number of years old. Could be time for a change perhaps? 

Floating plants sound a nicer option to covering a tube or reflecting upwards. @dw1305, would you be willing to help me out in this regard - happy to cover any costs and postage of course.  I imagine my spray may need to be angled more downwards to avoid surface agitation which shouldn't be a problem oxygen wise as the CO2 levels will be greatly reduced anyway. 

The substrate is a pain. I've never broken down a tank to this extent or one of this size. This concerns me. Looking at the eco-complete, it has been in since initial setup with little disturbance so any form of movement will release all sorts! Rehousing the fish is possible as I do have an old tall bin which might do the job. Would the amano shrimp survive such a transition? They would need to survive in the bin for quite some time if I need to cycle the tank with the new water. 
Is there any negatives, either now or in the future, to leaving the eco-complete relatively intact (apart from removing the plants and moving my rock/wood). The gravel side of the tank can be cleaned as I remove plants. I know crypts don't like being disturbed much so would I be better placed to try and leave them where they are? 

I will definitely have a read of this duckweed method. 
So a potential plan of attack over the coming weeks might look like this:

1) Start to reduce CO2 input in stages (every 4 or 5 days);
2) Start to reduce my ferts dosing (currently 50ml micro / macro on alternate days (maybe go to half from now);
3) Maintain my normal water changes but start removing damage plants which I will not keep;
_4) Decide on full breakdown or adjust what I have. _
5) Order some new plants including floating. Open to more suggestions here. 
6) CO2 arrives at the new very low level.
7) Lighting is reduced a low a baseline (unsure of what this is).
8) New tank regime and monitoring starts.


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## alto (27 Jun 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> if I need to cycle the tank with the new water.


The tank won’t need much of a “cycle” time as your filter media will continue to contain all the necessary bacteria etc - just rinse FX media in treated tap water to remove debris, it can sit for several days (weeks) in damp environment with good oxygen levels - I just add a couple cm’s of water at the bottom of the clean filter, place the baskets as usual, leave filter “top” in place but not sealed (with whatever clamps etc) & open inlet/outlet open for air (I leave the cleaned hose elsewhere) 

One the tank is rescaped, you can obviously run filter in place again - I usually give it a day to check filter, heater etc before moving livestock back

For Amano shrimp in the bin, just make sure they have some decent hiding places/crevices where they’ll feel safe from fish - a shallow bin is better than a tall bin as fish need a bottom footprint more than a tall footprint (fish swim lengths not heights) , it’s also much easier to maintain good oxygen levels (re greater surface area for volume)
(note that Filipe Oliveira uses an old fish shipping box to “store” fish - it maintains temperature, reduce vibrations, has a good footprint etc)  

As Filipe Oliveira shows in the video, substrate cleaning is recommended - note I’d remove livestock before disturbing the substrate much, as there is the potential to release ammonia or other toxins from the substrate when uprooting plants 
If you do need to remove plants/hardscape in order to catch fish etc, add Prime through the process to remove ammonia etc, you can also do water changes as you get on 

I would strip everything out of the tank, as otherwise the rescape tends to be confined by previous plant placement, it’s also much easier to tidy plants outside the tank (and perhaps “dip” to treat for algae, though I don't do this)

For well rooted plants (crypts etc), gently lift plants and trim roots ~ 4-5cm so you can remove plant without greatly disturbing the substrate (and releasing gunk into the water column), later you can trim leafs and further trim roots if needed (a nice sharp cut is best)  - note that plant will usually form new roots and previous roots will “melt” and eventually disappear 

Tropica has a series of Plant Handling Videos (and newer Plant Profile Videos) that are worth watching as they detail root trimming, old leaf removal etc 
https://m.youtube.com/user/tratropica/playlists

The crypts will likely experience leaf “melt” to some degree after the upheaval (this seems to depends on Crypt species and just how they’re feeling ), I’d trim older leafs, any damaged leafs, handle with care to limit physical damage
(there are videos for this too )





Tom Raffield said:


> two T5 Arcadia tubes at the moment (natural and marine blue)


Choose tubes that you like to look at - I prefer 6000-8000 Kelvin tubes for a planted tank, many people like 4000-5000 Kelvin tubes (I find them too “yellow”) 
I’d definitely ditch the marine blue


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## Tom Raffield (1 Jul 2020)

Right, I am sourcing some floating plants 

What sorts of crypts could I aim for to get the height I want at the back of the tank?
Are there any other low tech plants that I should be adding to my plant wish list before I order it in?
I will also be ordering a new T5 tube to replace my ridiculously old marine blue. 

I am going to 'try' to remove some plants slowly and in stages whilst doing a substrate vac at the same time to limit release of the nasties! I want to try and keep the eco-complete and gravel that I have already to limit the scale of the job. 
I will also remove some of the plants for root trimming and attempt to replace them with the new stock I am going to be buying. I have already started to reduce the nutrients and CO2 input in preparation for big changes.


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## Ray (2 Jul 2020)

Cryptocoryne Balansae or Crispatulata should do the trick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tom Raffield (3 Jul 2020)

Thanks for the suggestions. I am building a shopping basket of plants as I type.

With regard to the lighting. The really old blue tube is going to be replaced. I have looked for some replacement T5s from Juwel and Arcadia but LED versions keep popping up. Are they worth the extra outlay? Should I be looking for two T5 LED tubes instead? Should I replace the whole light unit with something different that can perhaps be raised? Should I just stick with what I have? Is there anything I should be aware of when looking at LEDs as I have never considered them before.


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## jaypeecee (3 Jul 2020)

Hi @Tom Raffield 


Tom Raffield said:


> With regard to the lighting. The really old blue tube is going to be replaced. I have looked for some replacement T5s from Juwel and Arcadia but LED versions keep popping up. Are they worth the extra outlay? Should I be looking for two T5 LED tubes instead? Should I replace the whole light unit with something different that can perhaps be raised? Should I just stick with what I have? Is there anything I should be aware of when looking at LEDs as I have never considered them before.



One _major_ advantage that you would have with LED lighting is that many/most products are dimmable. And that could be very useful for you.

JPC


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## Ray (3 Jul 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> With regard to the lighting. The really old blue tube is going to be replaced. I have looked for some replacement T5s from Juwel and Arcadia but LED versions keep popping up. Are they worth the extra outlay? Should I be looking for two T5 LED tubes instead? Should I replace the whole light unit with something different that can perhaps be raised? Should I just stick with what I have? Is there anything I should be aware of when looking at LEDs as I have never considered them before.


Since florescent lightbulb output declines over time the new bulbs will put out more light than the old ones, so if your plan is to "go slow" for a few months, I would not replace them unless as @jaypeecee says, with dimmable LED ones.  I am not sure if LED replacements for T5s are dimmable or not.


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## alto (3 Jul 2020)

With limited finds, I’d spend on plants rather than switch out the T5’s for LED - given the tank height of 64cm, you want high(er) watt, high intensity LEDs, which are much more expensive than the generic 0.2/0.3 low intensity LEDs often used in the lower cost LED tubes or LED units

As you’re running CO2, I’d focus on sufficient light for active plant growth in combination with sufficient nutrients - initially daily water changes can be the easiest way to reduce algae, encourage plant growth etc 
Once tank is established with healthy plants, limited algae, then begin slowing the system down


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## alto (3 Jul 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> I am going to 'try' to remove some plants slowly and in stages whilst doing a substrate vac at the same time to limit release of the nasties! I want to try and keep the eco-complete and gravel that I have already to limit the scale of the job.


Slow and steady is fine
But
I find it easier/faster to just remove livestock, break down the tank, replace substrate and rescape/plant under damp rather than underwater conditions 
This also allows you to adjust hardscape, then step back and consider/reconsider placement, position plants more particularly etc

This takes me a full day but @Tim Harrison seems to manage within a couple hours (and couple (?) libations )

(Of course substrate replacement would be more costly than just cleaning up what you have - if you intend to keep the EC/gravel, I’d still remove this and add a nutrient dense base layer such as Tropica Growth Substrate, Sera Floredepot, then layer the cleaned EC/gravel ... again I’d invest in this over a light replacement, T5’s grow plants very well, and have excellent visual aesthetics)

With livestock settled in suitable bin, tank can also be rescaped over several days, only once you begin planting do you need to be conscious of time/plant management - most new nursery grown pot or in vitro plants will be fine with damp, humid (eg “dry start” conditions), some recovered aquarium plants will also manage these conditions (though this is a bit more trial and error)
When handling submerse growth plants, leaf structure is much more delicate and sensitive to physical damage/drying damage


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## alto (3 Jul 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> Light is always my biggest bug bear as I never know if I have too much or too little. It is not as simple as just cutting the time down


With stock T5 lighting on this Juwel Vsion 260, too much lighting is very unlikely (especially given use of CO2)

I suggest running lights at maximum intensity for ~6 hours initially rather than limiting light output, you should see healthy new growth, once there is lots of new growth and plants are rooting, begin increasing light period to ~8 hours 
If you want to view the tank in the evenings, I suggest adding a “moonlight” effect rather than extending photoperiod to 12h 
If you have much ambient light in the room, plants will likely begin their “day” with sunlight timing rather than waiting on you turning on the fluorescent lighting ... so if plants have begun photosynthesis ~ 10 am and you begin your photoperiod at 4pm, plants may still begin winding down photosynthetic processes ~6-7pm 
(if you plant some Rotala Vietnam H’Ra this opening and closing of the leaf is very apparent)


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## alto (4 Jul 2020)

Just began listening to this, @Tom Raffield you may find some interesting commentary


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## jaypeecee (4 Jul 2020)

Hi @alto 


alto said:


> ...the generic 0.2/0.3 low intensity LEDs...



Are you referring to Wattage here?

TIA.

JPC


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## Tom Raffield (4 Jul 2020)

Ok, for the sake of cost I will opt for normal T5s for now. Managed to find some Juwel compatible 54w tropical T5s at 1 tube for £15 or 3 tubes for £30 delivered. Seems decent value. 

Have a plant shopping basket containing crypt balansae, sagittaria sabulata and limnophila sessiliflora. Have some limnobium laevigatum on the way (soon) from a kind UKAPS member. Not sure if this will be enough or not. Might be ok if I can rescue some of my current crypts and all the java fern. 

Need to really explore and consider this substrate issue next. Leaning towards full strip and rebuild but it does terrify for some reason! I want an underlying substrate which can be left indefinitely which I can then top with what I have lying around here. 

As always, insight and views from you guys are invaluable, so thank you again!


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## alto (5 Jul 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @alto
> 
> 
> Are you referring to Wattage here?
> ...



Yes I was thinking watts


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## rubadudbdub (5 Jul 2020)

Tom Raffield said:


> Ok, for the sake of cost I will opt for normal T5s for now.  Juwel compatible 54w tropical T5s at 1 tube for £15 or 3 tubes for £30 delivered.


http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/lighting.htm

Check out James planted tank site.  Cheap tubes will also grow plants well.    I get my T8s and T5s from lampspec.   More money for plants and a substrate.


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## rubadudbdub (5 Jul 2020)

@alto   I had a look back at Tom's previous posts and the concensus was that co2 distribution was the common problem. 

So is the complete strip advisable simply because of the opportunity to redesign the tank from the ground up?  Or is there an issue with old substrates and algae?   

I ask as I have low tech tanks that I tend to keep long term and tweek rather than do massive strip downs.  But I am wondering if following your advice might help the BBA and light black fuzz algae that I've just become accustomed to on older crypt/anubias leaves. 

Apologies for the hijack Tom.


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## alto (5 Jul 2020)

rubadudbdub said:


> I get my T8s and T5s from lampspec


Did a quick look - can you link some 1047mm T5’s? (to fit the Vision 260)


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## Tom Raffield (5 Jul 2020)

rubadudbdub said:


> @alto
> 
> Apologies for the hijack Tom.



No problem. The more information and questions that get answered in this thread, the better idea I will have as to what to do!


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## rubadudbdub (5 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Did a quick look - can you link some 1047mm T5’s? (to fit the Vision 260)


Hmm.  Apparently not.  I can find T8s to fit most, but not all juwel lengths. But none for juwel T5s.  The article on James' site had tubes going into an over tank luminaire not a juwel tank.

I can confirm that the t8 590mm (sometimes called 2') cheap lamps fit the old rio 125.   But it seems there's a greater choice of budget T8s than T5s.

Looks like for the T5s you're limited to aquarium branded tubes.


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## hypnogogia (6 Jul 2020)

Have You tried iquatics?
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/product-category/t5-bulbs/


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## PARAGUAY (6 Jul 2020)

I like the rendition of the Arcadia Plant Pro T5 they seem hard to find though but l have seen them still advertised for Juwel .


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## Tom Raffield (6 Jul 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Have You tried iquatics?
> https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/product-category/t5-bulbs/



That's where my three tubes are likely to come from


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## Tom Raffield (8 Jul 2020)

Purchased my Tropica Aquarium Soil this afternoon in preparation for a full strip down of my tank and started to do a few large water changes to get everything ready.
I'll give the soil a couple of days head start to arrive and buy the plants too. 
I will of course let you know how I get on with this project and hopefully I can end up with a tank I can be proud of (and less likely to muck up!).


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## Tom Raffield (10 Jul 2020)

My Tropica Soil is arriving today - I have 27L of the stuff inbound. I have also picked up some large filter bags to put some of the cleaned EC and gravel in to provide some height in my scape at the bottom. Not planning for the whole base of the tank to be covered in Tropica but will instead place it in the main areas I am looking for my plants to be situated. 

Lighting is my next consideration. I got a bit excited at a closing down sale at an aquatic store today and impulse (very impulse and unplanned) bought an LED kit that I thought would fit. Error - it won't. So now I have a JBL LED Solar Natur and Solar Effect to move on if anyone is interested (85-110cm set)?

Having read about the JBL kit, I am quite keen as it sounds really cool but am unsure whether the low tech, low hassle tank I am hoping to achieve justifies the need for an LED setup whether it be a simple LED tube or a full on controlled system. 

For simplicity I have found some T5 replacements (https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/sh...bs/juwel-54w-t5/54w-juwel-t5-tropical/#main-3) and am just trying to dig through the features and ratings to see if they are as good as the Juwel branded versions. 

As yet haven't fully decided on my final call for the lighting. A continuing area is my plant choice which is building and i'm starting to make a basket at AquaEssentials. 

As this project is beginning to get rolling I am keen for suggestions and opinions. I will of course update as things happen and hopefully provide photos.


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## Melll (31 Jul 2020)

Hi there,

How is it going?


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## Tom Raffield (1 Aug 2020)

Melll said:


> Hi there,
> 
> How is it going?


Hi Melll,

Lots has happened! I stripped down the tank and rescaped using old substrate and tropica aquarium soil. New easy plants went in along with salvageable old plants from the old setup.

I have a journal called Tank Reborn running so please do feel free to have a look and let me know what you think. Will add more photos today after a WC. 

Yesterday I installed JBL LED Solar Natur and Effect for my tank replacing the two T5 tubes (I had an issue with a JBL set that were too small). Shout out to Pond Planet for exchanging the small set for me!! Great service. I also have the WiFi controller which I am trying to get my head around. I am running a default community tank lighting scheme from the controller which runs for 10 hours including an hour as sunrise and an hour as sunset. It looks lovely and has some gimmicky cloud, rain and lightning effects thrown in. Just hoping it will meet the needs of the plants but as I am going for low tech and low maintenance it should be sufficient. 

Thanks for asking by the way


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## Melll (1 Aug 2020)

Morning 

I will take a look at your journal, 👍


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