# Alternative to CSM+B



## gabriel.basso (18 Oct 2017)

Hello UKAPs,

I'm starting a new tank and I'm gathering chemicals to dose EI.

Got everything but I haven't found CSM+B it here where Iive (Curitiba/Brazil).

What I found is a micronutrients compound mainly used in hydroponics called Conmicros Std.

As you can see it has everything CSM+B has but I'm a little concerned about the Copper levels:

Iron (chelated) 7,26%
Copper (chelated) 1,82%
Zinc (chelated) 0,73%
Manganese (chelated) 1,82%
Boron    1,82%
Magnesium 0,36%
Niquel 0,36%

Most of the CSM+B I've seen online have approximately 0,1% of copper.... This has almost 18x this ammount. Would this percentage be bad for plants, fishes or shrimps?

Can you help me on this?

thanks!

Gabriel


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## Edvet (18 Oct 2017)

Sorry can't comment on the  copper, but please tell me you go on roadtrips in to nature to collect stuf and fish to put in a tank................please......................


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## gabriel.basso (18 Oct 2017)

Edvet said:


> Sorry can't comment on the  copper, but please tell me you go on roadtrips in to nature to collect stuf and fish to put in a tank................please......................


Hey Edvet, actually I live in the south of Brazil, very (very) far away from the tropical forests. But I've been to Bonito two years ago. It is a city in Mato Grosso state, west of Brazil, nearby Pantanal. There I had the chance to dive in crystal water small rivers full of plants and fishes... At that time my tank was empty so I didn't collect anything... (and since these places receive a lot of tourists, they usually don't allow us to collect a single rock, plant or fish.. wich I agree, otherwise it would degrade the place in a few years). But back then I was so amazed with those beautiful sites, so when I returned home the first thing I did was to set up a new planted tank....

I found a video on youtube that shows one of these sites:


hope you like it and may visit Bonito anytime.

Gabriel


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## Edvet (18 Oct 2017)

Oh we know Bonito..................
Would love to see that in real life


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## gabriel.basso (18 Oct 2017)

I found another micro compound wich has 0,5% of copper (chelated) but only 3,4% of Iron. What do you think abou this? 

Magnesium;  1,1%
Boron ; 0,85 %
Copper  (Cu-EDTA); 0,5%
Iron (Fe-EDTA) ; 3,4 %
Manganese (Mn-EDTA) ; 3,2%
Molibdenium ; 0,05% 
Zinc ; 4,2%


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## ceg4048 (19 Oct 2017)

gabriel.basso said:


> Most of the CSM+B I've seen online have approximately 0,1% of copper.... This has almost 18x this ammount. Would this percentage be bad for plants, fishes or shrimps?


Hi Gabriel,
                Yeah, that's a lot. Probably want to avoid this. Normally, 0.2% to 0.3% is what we look for, so that the concentrations are low enough and we can dose as much as we want without worrying about the fish.



gabriel.basso said:


> I found another micro compound which has 0,5% of copper (chelated) but only 3,4% of Iron. What do you think abou this?


Very strange that it's so low in Fe. It's rare (for us in the North) to find more Zinc than Iron in a trace mix, but you can just double the concentration to get more Fe. These mixes appear to be products for special application in farming, not for general hydroponics. I would keep looking.

Here are some typical numbers for comparison:

Fe 8.2% (EDTA Chelated)
Mn 1.82% (EDTA Chelated)
Zn 1.16% (EDTA Chelated)
B 1.05%
Cu 0.23% (EDTA Chelated)
Mo 0.15% 

Cheers,


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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi Gabriel,
> Yeah, that's a lot. Probably want to avoid this. Normally, 0.2% to 0.3% is what we look for, so that the concentrations are low enough and we can dose as much as we want without worrying about the fish.
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Clive,

I will keep searching using these parameters as a benchmark. 

I found a hydroponics study showing some of the fertilizers found around here. Most of them have more than 0.2% Cu. The one that has 0.03% Cu would be great but I couldn't find it anywhere. 

Anyway... if my search fails I will have to use a planted tank specific product like Seachem or whatever...

Cheers




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## Edvet (19 Oct 2017)

http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=481_98
look along these lines? Hydroponics in Brazil


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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

Edvet said:


> http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=481_98
> look along these lines? Hydroponics in Brazil


Yes the same guy, but I found a specific study regarding liquid fertilization for hydroponics. 

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## AverageWhiteBloke (19 Oct 2017)

Will no one international ship you? I know its not going to be cheap buy you don't use a great deal of traces. Maybe worth the initial investment in the long run compared to commercial ferts. When I looked before out of curiosity it would cost £60 ish to ship 1KG of traces from UK including the traces. That would last a lifetime depending on size of tank compared to say Seachem Trace in UK which would be the equivalent of 3x500ml bottles. I would imagine it would be even cheaper to ship from USA.


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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Will no one international ship you? I know its not going to be cheap buy you don't use a great deal of traces. Maybe worth the initial investment in the long run compared to commercial ferts. When I looked before out of curiosity it would cost £60 ish to ship 1KG of traces from UK including the traces. That would last a lifetime depending on size of tank compared to say Seachem Trace in UK which would be the equivalent of 3x500ml bottles. I would imagine it would be even cheaper to ship from USA.


I agree with you. Good cost benefit there. That might be a good alternative. I'm going to ask for a quote. What exact product did you get? Plantex CSM+B?

I have to check though if it is possible to import ferts as a final customer. Maybe there are some barriers due to agriculture protection and so on. 

My best choice in the end would be to find a similar product locally... I haven't given up yet hehehe

Thank you for the heads up!

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## AverageWhiteBloke (19 Oct 2017)

I just based it off buying 1KG off one of our sponsors and Royal Mail Website estimate to ship a box under 2KG to Brazil. Maybe try emailing our sponsors see if they will ship to you but again, I would imagine shipping from USA would work out more cost effective. Can't see you having any issues importing none of the constituent elements in it have explosive properties and there's nothing in it you won't already have in Brazil just in different ratios.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (19 Oct 2017)

These ship internationally up to 4lbs in weight for $15

*Nutritrace CSM + Boron *
Nutritrace CSM+B 1 lb, a micro nutrient mix,
See mixing and dosing instructions in the FAQ's. Chemical analysis found in more information and FAQ's. Graduated dispenser bottle is an excellent tool for mixing and dosing this product.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Total magnesium - water soluble chelated magnesium          1.5%

Copper   -chelated                                                                    0.1%

Iron - chelated                                                                          7.0%

Manganese - chelated                                                              2.0%

Molybdenum                                                                           0.06%

Zinc - chelated                                                                         0.40%

Boron                                                                                        3.8%

EDTA - minimum content                                                      65.4%

Looks like $18 for a pound of it. *Edited was only $15 for a pound shipped international first class.


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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> These ship internationally up to 4lbs in weight for $15
> 
> *Nutritrace CSM + Boron *
> Nutritrace CSM+B 1 lb, a micro nutrient mix,
> ...


Very nice!! The tracemix + shipping will cost me USD 33. Converting to brazilian reais I could buy 2  Flourish Trace with only 250ml each. 

1lb or 450mg is a lot of trace.. it will last for a long time. 

I will take this without second thought!

Thanks again AverageWhiteBloke!

Cheers

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## AverageWhiteBloke (19 Oct 2017)

No problem buddy, I think they will ship up to 4 pounds for the same money so maybe in your interest to get whatever else you need up to that weight and save on shipping. Pottasium nitrate is what you will use the most of but obviously were starting to get into pyrotechnics.

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## ceg4048 (19 Oct 2017)

gabriel.basso said:


> I found a hydroponics study showing some of the fertilizers found around here. Most of them have more than 0.2% Cu. The one that has 0.03% Cu would be great but I couldn't find it anywhere.


OK, well you don't really need to go as low as 0.03%. 
The item called MicrosQ from Company Nutriplant will be fine. It's a little low in Iron, so just add twice as much. In fact, any of the mixes to the right side of MicrosQ will also be OK.

The products to the left of that column are not so enticing, but it looks to me that you have some very good options on that sheet.

Cheers,


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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> No problem buddy, I think they will ship up to 4 pounds for the same money so maybe in your interest to get whatever else you need up to that weight and save on shipping. Pottasium nitrate is what you will use the most of but obviously were starting to get into pyrotechnics.
> 
> Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


Maybe this happens for USA shippings. I tried to put 1 more tracemix on the shopping cart and the shipping cost duplicated. Anyway, I'm still happy with the price. 

The other macronutrients I already have them. Bought on a chemical products store in a very good price. 

So I'm ready to go... 

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## gabriel.basso (19 Oct 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> OK, well you don't really need to go as low as 0.03%.
> The item called MicrosQ from Company Nutriplant will be fine. It's a little low in Iron, so just add twice as much. In fact, any of the mixes to the right side of MicrosQ will also be OK.
> 
> The products to the left of that column are not so enticing, but it looks to me that you have some very good options on that sheet.
> ...


Thanks Clive I really appreciate your help. 

I will keep it for future reference. 

Since I was having too much difficulty to find these specific fert brands or the ones I found were sold only in huge packages I ended up deciding to buy Nutritrace CSM + Boron from aquariumfertilizer.com. in the end it will still be much cheaper than buying Seachem or similar products.

Cheers

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