# Novice Looking For Advice - On a tight budget



## jwrage (10 Jul 2008)

Hi all,
I have a pearl 60 bowfront aquarium which I am hoping to turn into a dedicated planted tank. I've looked at some of the photos on this site and others and hope that I can get a tank looking that great.

The Stats
Tank Volume 45L
26cm high, 60cm long, 23cm wide.
1 Light which came with the tank =  Phillips TL-D- 15w / 54-765

I examined the light fitting and it looks to me as though it could fit another light as there seems to be two unused 'caps' behind the plastic shield the light sits behind.

Questions:
1. Substrate
I've done lots of research into this tank, I wanna get it just right but also not spend a fortune. I was looking at 'aquagrit' and perhaps mixing it with aquatic compost or 'ferka base'; and then top this with the pea gravel that is currently in the tank.

2. Lighting
I don't think my current lighting is sufficient, I want to be able to grow anything up to medium-high light plants(is this to ambitious?). Ideally I'd like to be able to grow any plant that takes my fancy, I don't want my setup to be it's limiting factor. How would I go about upgrading lighting? How cheap can I do it? Does anybody have a Pearl 60 and have they succesfully upgraded/ is there room for two bulbs in the hood or am I looking at the wrong thing.

3. CO2
I'm thinking of going for DIY CO2, (nice and cheap). However does it actually work? How do I measure the CO2 in my tank? Would a JBL Permenent CO2 Test Kit be needed? 

4. Fertilisers
What should I dose? How difficult is it mixing up my own? I read a guide on this site(I think) about making your own ferts but it did look kinda complicated.

Sorry for my noob questions, I have searched and researched for a while now, but I wanna make sure I get everything 100% right so as not to waste my time/money.

Thanks
James


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## Dan Crawford (10 Jul 2008)

jwrage said:
			
		

> 1. Substrate
> I've done lots of research into this tank, I wanna get it just right but also not spend a fortune. I was looking at 'aquagrit' and perhaps mixing it with aquatic compost or 'ferka base'; and then top this with the pea gravel that is currently in the tank.


If you add the cost of 3 substrates and their efficiency then your money would be much better spent on ADA Aqua Soil, it looks expensive but if you add it all up you'll probably pay the same as you were gonna pay for an inferior substrate. Tropica topped with 2-3mm gravel also works very very well but again i think once youve bought the Tropica stuff and then the gravel it's almost as expensive as AS. On a little tank like yours i would defo be going down the AS route but its your choice.  


			
				jwrage said:
			
		

> 2. Lighting
> I don't think my current lighting is sufficient, I want to be able to grow anything up to medium-high light plants(is this to ambitious?). Ideally I'd like to be able to grow any plant that takes my fancy, I don't want my setup to be it's limiting factor. How would I go about upgrading lighting? How cheap can I do it? Does anybody have a Pearl 60 and have they succesfully upgraded/ is there room for two bulbs in the hood or am I looking at the wrong thing.



Yeah, this is a bit too low. if you can upgrade the existing lighting then great! I'm guessing the tubes are T8 ie. almost an inch wide as opposed to T5s which are half inch? T5s are better but you may get away with 2 T8s proviing the ferts and CO2 are balanced correctly.


			
				jwrage said:
			
		

> 3. CO2
> I'm thinking of going for DIY CO2, (nice and cheap). However does it actually work? How do I measure the CO2 in my tank? Would a JBL Permenent CO2 Test Kit be needed?



I wouldn't bother with yeast, grab a regulator from the link below and i sell Fire Extinguishers for Â£15, last way longer, more efficient and much much better source of CO2.
Refer to the dropchecker article and read up on how to measure CO2  http://www.ukaps.org/drop-checker.htm



			
				jwrage said:
			
		

> 4. Fertilisers
> What should I dose? How difficult is it mixing up my own? I read a guide on this site(I think) about making your own ferts but it did look kinda complicated.



Mixing your own ferts isn't as hard as it looks but you may be better to just but Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus from AE as the links below and once youve got everything together in your head and running well then maybe make the change to dry ferts.

I wrote this post below for someone else, it lists the stuff you'll need to grow pretty demanding plants.


Here's a list of what you may need based on a wish to grow carpeting plants.



			
				dan crawford said:
			
		

> CO2 there are lots of different methods but i'd suggest you build yourself a system, it's cheaper it's really easy.
> 2kg fire extinguisher - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1553
> regulator and solanoid - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Regulator-Ele ... dZViewItem
> CO2 tube http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rhinox-Co2-Tubing ... m153.l1262
> ...



I hope this helps.


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## Dacious (10 Jul 2008)

Hi jwrage,

I too am in your position and set up my tank with as little as possible as I don't have too much money and given the current economical current, well.....

Anyway here is what I did:

For substrate I used Red Sea Flora Base, it is a complete substrate that requires no work done to it i.e. just add straight to the tank and you will not need any other substrate to mix with it. Given the size of your tank I think one bag should do the trick and you will probably use less than a bag anyway. (RRP Â£23.99) This is costly but definitely worth the intial outlay. 

I concur with Dan that the lighting is quite low to grow the more demanding plants, especially if you are planning to use CO2 and fertilise in the substrate and in the water column. If the lighting level is not sufficient it will cause algae because you are dosing everything else. Sadly I have no idea how you can upgrade with the model you have. 

Regarding the CO2, I use a homemade yeast system and it really does work. It won't be particularly difficult as your tank is small. My homemade CO2 is sufficient for my 125L tank so your should be no problem if you decide to go down this route. I agree with Dan that fire extinguisher is much better in every sense but on a low budget like me there is only one choice. 

For fertiliser I dose dry ferts. as this is very much cheaper than buying it ready made, not only do you have better control but ml for ml it is more cost-effective. If you are unsure (as I was) then start with Tropica fertiliser and once more confident consider dry ferts. 

I am not saying that the way I have done things is better (far from it!), it is simply what has worked for me. I too am on a tight budget so I can sympathise! O and if you can get cuttings instead of buying plants the better as this will save you money too, I tried to buy as little as possible as paying up to Â£8-9 for a plant wasn't an option!!!

Hope this helps and good luck!!!


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## jwrage (10 Jul 2008)

Thanks for your great replies. I'm gonna read through the links, and plan out exactly what I'm going to buy. 
I think I will go for the more expensive stuff aquasoil or flora base, because hopefully it'll be worth it in the long run.


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## jwrage (10 Jul 2008)

I'm not to sure about making my own CO2 system, I can't see my parents going for the idea. I think I'll try a DIY Yeast based system or perhaps the CO2 Optimat. Have any of you had experiences with that?

Thanks
James


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## Dan Crawford (10 Jul 2008)

That Optimat is good mate. I used it on a 60 x 30 x 30 for ages and it works well IME. gotta be religious about filling it up in the morning and after work depending on how much is in the cylinder, you'll figure it out. I used to fill it up in the morning with no lights on then half fill it after work, it's way better than yeast IME, i'd forgotten all about it or i would have suggested it


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## spaldingaquatics (10 Jul 2008)

I agree it does work well, it's all too easy to forget to fill it! replacement canisters are about a fiver, last a good amount of time(esp if you forget to use it  )


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## spaldingaquatics (10 Jul 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> I used to fill it up in the morning with no lights on then half fill it after work, it's way better than yeast IME, i'd forgotten all about it or i would have suggested it



I think the design has changed now though and it can only be completely filled. I might be wrong though


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## Dacious (10 Jul 2008)

Here is a pic of my tank which is done on the cheap!










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## jwrage (10 Jul 2008)

Nice  Thats a real inspiration that I dont need to spend loads to have a great looking tank!

I'm currently confusing myself about installing the lighting. I'm sure it can't be that hard, but I'm having trouble finding twin lighting units that accept a lamp that are 44cm long.


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## Dacious (10 Jul 2008)

I'm sorry I can't help you there as I'm not the most technical of people. Do you have to have the hood on? If not you could invest in a luminaire(?)


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## jwrage (10 Jul 2008)

Yeah there is a hood. I've got some old fish tanks/equipment in the shed. I'm contemplating selling it all and buying something particularly fancy.


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## aaronnorth (10 Jul 2008)

Here is my view, sorry if it has been mentioned already   



> 1. Substrate
> I've done lots of research into this tank, I wanna get it just right but also not spend a fortune. I was looking at 'aquagrit' and perhaps mixing it with aquatic compost or 'ferka base'; and then top this with the pea gravel that is currently in the tank.



Akadama, check this thread out:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=741



> 2. Lighting
> I don't think my current lighting is sufficient, I want to be able to grow anything up to medium-high light plants(is this to ambitious?). Ideally I'd like to be able to grow any plant that takes my fancy, I don't want my setup to be it's limiting factor. How would I go about upgrading lighting? How cheap can I do it? Does anybody have a Pearl 60 and have they succesfully upgraded/ is there room for two bulbs in the hood or am I looking at the wrong thing.



i fitted a 36w PC T5 in my 60l hood, the bulb and convertagar cost me Â£30. There is cheaper options out there, i bet you could get one for <Â£20













> 3. CO2
> I'm thinking of going for DIY CO2, (nice and cheap). However does it actually work? How do I measure the CO2 in my tank? Would a JBL Permenent CO2 Test Kit be needed?



I used it for quite a bit but i got fed up of the maintenance required. I had 2 bottles, changed one midweek and the other at the weekend for a steady CO2 output.
Measure it with a drop checker for constantt results, here is a cheap one and is perfect:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Co2-Drop-Checker- ... .m14.l1318



> 4. Fertilisers
> What should I dose? How difficult is it mixing up my own? I read a guide on this site(I think) about making your own ferts but it did look kinda complicated.



I have never done it but i suppose once you get into it, it is simple, like everything else, you can get cheap weighning scales of ebay that do 0.1g for about Â£6 - Â£8


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## jwrage (11 Jul 2008)

Thanks for all your help. This is such a great site


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## jwrage (12 Jul 2008)

I'm going for a Buddhist themed aquarium. Using the following for inspiration:

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/nanobudhha
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/buddha_tank

So my questions:
If I pick up a statue of the Buddha from a shop how can I test if it is aquarium safe?
Can I grow live Bamboo in my aquarium?

Thanks
James


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## Dan Crawford (12 Jul 2008)

Thats a nice idea. I'm not too sure on growing bamboo in the aquarium, i think it is more of a marsh plant so just the roots want to be submerged, if the whole stem is under water i suspect it would rott, not too sure though. Bamboo poles for the garden would work well although they are incredibly boyant! 

Im not too sure on the budha's safety.


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## Dacious (13 Jul 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> i think it is more of a marsh plant so just the roots want to be submerged, if the whole stem is under water i suspect it would rott



Dan is right, you can use bamboo as long as the roots are in the water and the leaves are out (although it is not a marsh plant). The best bamboo to use are the ones found in ikea or florists (i.e. the individual thick stem variety in ikea for around 70-80p each). 

I have seen this done before similar to a mangrove plant in a brackish/marine tank and it worked fine.

I'm not sure how you would go about testing the statue but if it is carved from an inert stone then I think it would be ok.


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## Ed Seeley (13 Jul 2008)

Dacious said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how you would go about testing the statue but if it is carved from an inert stone then I think it would be ok.



Stick it in some RO water and then test the water for GH, KH and pH after a day or so.  If it's a little concrete ornament then it will have raised all three pretty rapidly IME.  If it is releasing lots into the water then you may be able to seal it with a concrete sealing clear paint or varnish, but it will change the way the look.  Or soak it repeatedly for a few weeks to lessen the effect.


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## jwrage (14 Jul 2008)

Thanks all, I'll get looking for some statues that look inert and then test them when I get them home. If they turn out not to be suitable they can have a nice place in the back garden 

I found this on Ebay and wondered how it worked, I've never seen a product like this before.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-Aqua...068243548QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360068243548


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## LondonDragon (14 Jul 2008)

jwrage said:
			
		

> I found this on Ebay and wondered how it worked, I've never seen a product like this before.
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-Aqua...068243548QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360068243548


Don't waste your money and time on these miracle products  Get a regulator and a FE or just go DIY!


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## jwrage (14 Jul 2008)

I think I'll go DIY. Ifound a ceramic diffuser on ebay, it claims that it works with DIY CO2 systems but I'm not sure whether the pressure will be enough to force it through.
I'm thinking of 2 coke bottles connecting to a T valve, this then going to a ceramic diffuser or airstone or attempting to attach it to the venturi jet on my internal filter.

I hope by having two bottles, and changing one each week it should give me a stable supply. 

I have been considering connecting it to the top of my filter, but I think this might create a vacuum. However I will have a check valve in the tubing. Any ideas? Perhaps its easier to go for a Tetra Optima lol


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## Dacious (14 Jul 2008)

Hi Jwrage,

My home made CO2 is exacltly as you described 





> I'm thinking of 2 coke bottles connecting to a T valve



It is 2 drinks bottles connected with a T valve, just make sure that they are fizzy drinks bottles! Also make sure to silicon all joints when you make it. 

I think you might have problems with a diffuser not only with pressure but also the white residue that home made yeast systems produce. This will clog up the diffuser reducing its effectiveness. Instead I opted for a CO2 "ladder" (the one that is provided with the Nutrafin yeast system I believe), this way the pressure does not matter but you will still have some residue however it will not clog the ladder as much as a diffuser but unfortunately you will still need to clean it every so often. 

You could just have the airline (CO2 out put) in the flow of the filter instead that way it shouldn't cause a vacuum. I personally prefer the ladder because I feel I have a better indication as to how much CO2 is being produced and hence change it when needed. 

How big is your tank? If it is under 100L you can probably get away with using one fizzy drinks bottle.

Hope this helps you!


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## jwrage (14 Jul 2008)

Its pretty small, only 60l so one fizzy drinks bottle should be great. It will mean less stuff to hide 
Is this the type of ladder you meanhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260241050439 ?
Thanks
James


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## Dacious (14 Jul 2008)

jwrage said:
			
		

> Its pretty small, only 60l so one fizzy drinks bottle should be great. It will mean less stuff to hide
> Is this the type of ladder you meanhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260241050439 ?
> Thanks
> James




If it's 60L then I would have just the one bottle otherwise you might find that you will overdose on CO2 when the thing gets going, unless of course you are going to have a lot of surface agitation. If I were you I would buy 2 fizzy drinks bottles (of the same brand etc), obviously you would use one of these at any one time on your tank. The spare one I would fill with sugar, yeast and bi-carb ready for when the one that is active runs out. When the time comes to change them over simply fill it with the right volume of water and screw it in. Then you can wash out the one you have removed dry it and fill it with sugar, dry yeast and bi-carb screw the top back on and it sits there ready to be filled with water and used. But remember to keep it all dry when no in use as you don't want the yeast to become active. 

The ladder I used is the one that comes with a nutrafin yeast based CO2 which you can buy separately. Having seen the ebay item it is similar, but once you add the postage on i'm sure you can buy one here for the same if not less.

Hope all this made sense.

I don't know what everyone else makes of this? Can someone else agree or disagree with me just in case I am wrong??!?!?!!?  :? Don't want to give out the wrong advice


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## spaldingaquatics (14 Jul 2008)

I've just finished setting up my 2x 2ltr drinks bottle set up connected to a 3rd smaller bottle for protection from liquids coming in contact with each other. My tank is 230l, I'll never get a completely stable co2 level with a yeast system but I've got low light levels so I've got a bit of room for testing.
As for a diffuser, I found a spiro and rhinox that both said they were suitable for a home made yeast bottle but the advice from people with experience has been that the pressure would not work it properly. A nano diffuser has been advised, or I could just use an airstone placed under the intake of the filter. 
I think I'm going to start with the nano diffuser first and if there's problems I'll try the airstone under the filter intake, the nano's are quite cheap so it doesn't matter too much if it doesn't work as planned.
I hadn't considered the ladder option before, but considering the kit that they're sold with this might be a good option.
For me it's a case of testing and finding out


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## Dacious (14 Jul 2008)

spaldingaquatics said:
			
		

> I hadn't considered the ladder option before, but considering the kit that they're sold with this might be a good option.



I personally find the ladder method of delivery better because pressure problems do not occur (of course unless the yeast gets towards the end of its effectiveness), inevitably after the peak of CO2 output the pressure drops because enzyme activity slows down. This drop in pressure will affect diffusers more because they need sufficient pressure to work, with a ladder this drop in CO2 output will not reduce the ladders effectiveness. Yeast based CO2 also produces a white residue which will clog diffusers which will need regular cleaning. 

This is what I have personally found anyway, others may not encountered this.


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