# neon tetra color fading in the morning



## Iskánder Vigoa (29 Nov 2018)

Hi, I have 10 neons tetras, one black neon tetra and 5 black widow tetras, with some of the neons I have noticed that in the morning they are without color, almost sick looking, super pale, sometimes it's 1 of 10, sometimes it's 3 of 10, but always in just minutes of turning on the lights they all get to full colors
I have read that losing color over night is a normal thing of the fishes, but then why the black neon it's always ok, the rest of the tetras are ok, including the widows and most of the neons, I haven't seen that behaviour in more than 3 fishes at a time and it's only with the normal neons
they don't seem to be sick, all eat like little piranhas, and the tank have plenty of vegetation and hiding places
plus I have plants that have roots extracting nitrates etc


----------



## Edvet (29 Nov 2018)

That's normal, a lot of fish have "night colors"


----------



## Iskánder Vigoa (29 Nov 2018)

thanks man, and so... why some of them do it and others don't?? could be temperature related or something?


----------



## Majsa (29 Nov 2018)

I have noticed that too, it seems like some just need more time to wake up. The neons "sleep" at night and I guess the pale ones are the ones who hadn't come out from their hiding places yet when the lights come on.


----------



## alto (29 Nov 2018)

How much has ambient light brightened tank when you notice this?
Most fish will be back in day colours under fairly low lighting, but then may “ghost out”  when bright lights come on - this reaction can be very rapid depending upon fish mood

You mention 5 black widow tetras, as adults these fish can be stressful to milder tankmates - more notable in smaller tanks - so watch the tank for 20-30 minutes (sitting quietly close by with minimal movement so fish “forget” your presence) that they haven’t got the neons subdued 

If you have another tank etc to move the black widows to for a few days, that would show more clearly their effect on neon behaviour


----------



## Oldguy (29 Nov 2018)

alto said:


> black widow tetras





Iskánder Vigoa said:


> 5 black widow tetras


These and serpae tetras should come with a health warning when mixed with smaller fish.


----------



## Iskánder Vigoa (30 Nov 2018)

Majsa said:


> I have noticed that too, it seems like some just need more time to wake up. The neons "sleep" at night and I guess the pale ones are the ones who hadn't come out from their hiding places yet when the lights come on.


I think that could be what it's happening, cuz always the pales ones are the closest to the bottom of the tank and the vegetation, etc.



alto said:


> How much has ambient light brightened tank when you notice this?
> Most fish will be back in day colours under fairly low lighting, but then may “ghost out”  when bright lights come on - this reaction can be very rapid depending upon fish mood
> 
> You mention 5 black widow tetras, as adults these fish can be stressful to milder tankmates - more notable in smaller tanks - so watch the tank for 20-30 minutes (sitting quietly close by with minimal movement so fish “forget” your presence) that they haven’t got the neons subdued
> ...


wow didn't know that, until now they seem to be doing fine, the widows tetras are larger and stockier than the neons, but they spend most of the time chasing and biting each other ignoring the rest of the fish, I don't have another tank to try that, but as this tank is in my studio and they see me all the time they kind of ignore me, they notice me only before feeding.
I think the first sign the neons are not stressed it's they almost never form schools, only when I'm doing water change or moving things around or something, otherwise they are on their own scattered all over the tank


----------



## zozo (30 Nov 2018)

https://australianmuseum.net.au/can-fishes-change-colour

The big question why it does is still largely unknown obviously stress is one of them since we experience this with moving fish around, than they get startled and pale in color. Or as Alto says we bombard them with a lot of light and to little cover. We also can see this in fish that are hunted.. Probably a natural deffence make yourself less brigt makes you less easier to spot? Is the most obvious assumption we can make.

We still know very little about fishes social life and how they comminucate.. Recent studies revealed that fish might have a much more complex social and emotional life than we like to believe.

And many stressors and stressor doesn't necessarily needs to be a negative input can have effect on fish color. As partialy explained in the above linked site.

It also simply could be heirachical play for a possition in the group/shoal/school or over territory depending on the type of fiish. I also see color changes in my little bright colored boraras from dark orange red to pink and they also oftenly are chassing eachother around. And also see it in the sprankling Gouramies, these do not realy school all the time and like to quarrel over territory than occasionaly i see one go pale and lose it sprankling color.. Could simply be he is pissed off and it's a display of discomfort or beeing sub dominant that he lost a battle over a favorite spot a minute ago. Maybe it says, stop chassing me i'm done with it.. We do not know..

What many people also do not see is what is going on at night in the community they did put together. For example some loach species can be rather naughty at night and chase other around. I've seen it with Labeo (red tailed shark), purring like a sweet kitty during the day and at lights out create havoc for a few hours.

It can be a lot of reasons we simple only can guess about. And as long it isn't a long term display or an intire group beeing constantly pale i wouldn't worry about it to much. Look at overall behaivor, breathing patern, fin possition, body shape and movement and or hiding away from the group.. If it doesn't show any abnormalities in that.. Than it most likely it is a communicative display we still yet do not understand.


----------



## Iskánder Vigoa (1 Dec 2018)

Thanks to all for your help, at the end it seems it's just the lights, today I woke up and instead of turning the "power" lights (24w  I'm upgrading soon) I turned only the "accent" lights, a 5w rgb led strip, in its minimum intensity, then started increasing it every 20 seconds or so
the result was no one single tetra with pale color
They even got more active, but I guess that could be that I delayed the feeding

So maybe I could get a timer for the power lights to turn on a bit later when all the fish are already awaken and a small light with 10w or so with sunrise/sunset capabilities


----------

