# Grr, wasn't expecting this... Help / Advice please ?



## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

My tank has been running for about 2.5 weeks now (after some on and off false starts with substrate I chose to change).
Now I have started putting plants in I am finding I am getting some kind of grey Algae as pictured.  Please help.  I have detailed the salient points below.  ALSO One of the leaves of my Crinum (sorry Luis, hope I am not killing your lovely plant) is dying and some of the others look like they are starting to discolour on the outer edges.

Tank 175l
Tank dimensions 80cm x 45cm x 55cmH
Substrate 1.4cm Colombo Florabase under 6cm Unipac Samoa sand
Lighting 2 x 24w T5, one pinkish one whitish
Photo period 6 hours a day
Ferts: started TPN+ 3 days ago, 4ml per day, Easycarbo 4ml daily

The wood did grow some white stuff which I have cleaned off twice now.  Oh , and since putting in LFS plants (which admittedly looked healthy) I have some hitchikers in the form of tiny snails which are annoying the bejesus out of me.  How do I get rid of them ?


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2012)

Looks like dead plant tissue?
Are you going to inject any c02?


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Looks like dead plant tissue?
> Are you going to inject any c02?



No i dont think its dead plant tissue as it seems more stringy than that and is attached to the plants like algae would be.  Looking at some of the leaves on the bacopa it is almost furry.

I will be injecting CO2 but not till the end of the month at the earliest.  Had hoped Easycarbo would have been OK for now though


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## Matt Warner (6 Feb 2012)

How much water are you changing and how often? Looks like it could be a build up of detritus.


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> How much water are you changing and how often? Looks like it could be a build up of detritus.



In the first two weeks its been ;

Week one, 80% every other day
Week two, 50% three times a week
This week, 50% every third day (two done so far).

However, that has only been changing the water, I have not stirred up the substrate or hoovered it at all, and reading your thread I can see there is a fair bit of muck resting on the sand.  How best to remove this in a planted tank ?  I thought the filter flow would gently move this around towards the inlet strainer and it would just go ?


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2012)

Still looks like a decomposed plant material to me - anyway yes definitely syphon the substrate.
I use a 440ml plastic drink bottle with the bottom cut away & attached to some 16mm tube, it is really important to keep the tank as clean as possible.


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## Alastair (6 Feb 2012)

I'm with foxfish on this. I had similar not long ago through not properly cleaning the lower areas and any plant matter and dirt got caught, especially in the blyxa and would catch other debris etc as it went by making it look longer. This in turn also began to get algae if not cleaned off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2012)

Hi
Remove the sand till you get the system mature and well established....then cap.
Give the stems space.
Clean regularly and do smaller water changes at the same time.
hoggie


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi
> Remove the sand till you get the system mature and well established....then cap.
> Give the stems space.
> Clean regularly and do smaller water changes at the same time.
> hoggie


I won't be doing that mate, the sand IS the main substrate. It's what the plant grow in lol


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2012)

Hi 
Look here :arrow: 1.4cm Colombo Florabase under 6cm Unipac Samoa sand... that's what you posted..are you sure.
6cm is far to much if you have Florabase underneath.
hoggie


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi
> Look here :arrow: 1.4cm Colombo Florabase under 6cm Unipac Samoa sand... that's what you posted..are you sure.
> 6cm is far to much if you have Florabase underneath.
> hoggie



Thanks Hoggie but I took advice from James Findlay, probably one of the countries most experienced aquascapers on doing that, so I am confident that it is perfectly OK


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

Alastair said:
			
		

> I'm with foxfish on this. I had similar not long ago through not properly cleaning the lower areas and any plant matter and dirt got caught, especially in the blyxa and would catch other debris etc as it went by making it look longer. This in turn also began to get algae if not cleaned off
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks Fox & Alastair.  I will give the bottom a good clean tomorrow.  I have to admit to being reticent about disturbing it too much in case I pulled everything up ! LOL


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## Matt Warner (6 Feb 2012)

Hogtie could well be on to something though. A very deep and compacted substrate can go anaerobic if it isn't turned and cleaned regularly.


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2012)

I am pretty keen on getting all the loose stuff & mulm out asap so frequently wharf the inside of my tanks, I also like corydoras as they are great at keeping stuff in suspension.
However Hoggy does have a point about 60mm of fine sand being a bit on the edge!
Did your friend recommend any way of keeping this depth aerobic?


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## Ian Holdich (6 Feb 2012)

substrate in a planted tank does not need turning...the anaerobic gases are used bu the plant roots and if they do hit the main water column they don't cause any harm.

as above, looks like detritus build up.


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> Hogtie could well be on to something though. A very deep and compacted substrate can go anaerobic if it isn't turned and cleaned regularly.



Matty this is NOT a very deep substrate for a planted tank.  6 to 7cm !!!  That is definitely not deep mate.  Nor is it compacted.  Its only been there three weeks.  Also, there is no need to turn a planted aquarium.  Think what would happen to the plants


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> I am pretty keen on getting all the loose stuff & mulm out asap so frequently wharf the inside of my tanks, I also like corydoras as they are great at keeping stuff in suspension.
> However Hoggy does have a point about 60mm of fine sand being a bit on the edge!
> Did your friend recommend any way of keeping this depth aerobic?



I will get on to cleaning it tomorrow.  But I wil reiterate this substrate is NOT too deep.  ITs about three cms at the front raising to 6 or 7 at the back.  Some banked aquascapes can be up to 20cm deep in parts.  The person I referred to is not a friend, he is a well respected and experienced aquascapist who has been doing this for years.  I trust his judgement implicitly. 

Anyway, I would prefer not to develop a discussion on the merits of my substrate, I am happy with it.  I am, however keen to prevent build up of detritus and appreciate you bringing this topic up as I had not thought about it (very remiss).  

A few Corys will form part of my intended stocking.  Those, along with gentle wafting of the substrate surface should prevent that in the future.

Now, what would the best way be to remove this detritus where it has attached itself to plants ?  Remove the specific plants and rinse them off then replant ?


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## Matt Warner (6 Feb 2012)

The best way is to suck it off the plants with your gravel vacuum.


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> The best way is to suck it off the plants with your gravel vacuum.


Yeah, bit worried about doing that mate.  These plants have only been in a short while.  Sticking suction on them will lift them out of the substrate quicker than you can say Jack Robinson.  May have to hold them in place with tweezers to do that.


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## Antipofish (7 Feb 2012)

Just lightly stirred up the sand and there was a fair amount of surface muck.  I have to admit, I made a bit of a booboo there as I thought it was only FISH that made a mess, not plants as well.  But then I guess as cells die off they have to go somewhere.  Anyway, I am a bit surprised that the water was so dirty as a result and also that the filter strainer does not seem to suck much of it up.  Are there any hints or tips as to how to ensure a lot of the detritus in the water column ends up in the filter ?  The strainer is currently "hidden" behind my bacopa as I didn't want to see it, but could it be that this is effectively creating a "prefilter" out of the bacopa ? Should inlet strainers be sited out in the open ? (Cant see how this works as they are usually at the back of a tank where tall plants grow) ??  I am feeling more and more naiive at the moment.

I assume everyones tank looks a bit dirty right after a clean up ?  I had these notions of wonderful crystal clear water all the time, LOL.  

Good news is that this seems to have eradicated most of the detritus that had collected among the plant leaves.  So it probably was that.  How often should I be doing this waft around business ?  Also, I can see a plantlet of blyxa floating on the surface.  Bloomin stuff.  Nothing seems to be anchored in very well.  Is this just because its all new ?  Will plants usually grow firmer rootings ? And how long does it normally take ?

I have Unipac Samoa fine grade in there.  I chose that cos I thought it would be a 'tighter fit' for the plants to be held in place.  Was this right or wrong, and would the course grade have been better ?  If not for this reason would it have been better anyway ?  

God so many questions ... sorry guys.


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## foxfish (7 Feb 2012)

You just need to get a cleaning rhythm going, use a gravel syphon or just make one.
These syphons work quite well & the diffused flow at the wide part should not dislodge your plants but you will just have to give it a go to see...

Once your tank is more mature you can get away with much lower maintenance but it is important to keep on top of this now.
You are right about the filter pick up not being able to cope with anything large though.

We were worried about you using 60mm of fine sand all over the base because deep sand beds can go anaerobic but, it sounds like your layout will be fine.

Plant growth & root growth will really speed up if you can get your C02 system going, in the mean time just be as careful as possible when syphoning around the plants.....its all good fun & there are somethings you will always miss on the forum, we also have different ideas & opinions on here!
Once your tank has been running for 6 months you will be sitting there bored because it is all going smoothly & then you will be wanting to start over so you have something to work on   

The funny thing about forums is in the way they work compared to talking face to face, you need to be pretty thick skinned sometimes as there can be conflicting advice  :?


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## Matt Warner (7 Feb 2012)

> Are there any hints or tips as to how to ensure a lot of the detritus in the water column ends up in the filter



Yes there is its called more flow. More flow keeps debris suspended in the water for longer. This way there is more chance of it getting sucked into the filter.


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## Antipofish (7 Feb 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> > Are there any hints or tips as to how to ensure a lot of the detritus in the water column ends up in the filter
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there is its called more flow. More flow keeps debris suspended in the water for longer. This way there is more chance of it getting sucked into the filter.



If I put more flow in my tiny tank, the plants will be uprooted and be swilling around the water column to add to the detritus.


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## GHNelson (7 Feb 2012)

Hi
Its a tad off track.
Here is a tip when syphoning around new plants or delicate plants with detritus on them.
Get a soft uplift sponge the one that's round with the hole similar to this :arrow: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Fish ... 45faf439f9 and get a piece of tube or your gravel cleaning tube and stick it three quarters the way down in to the sponge.
This will stop you damaging the plants and gives you something to disturb the gunge/gunk with.
You can use this in a shrimp tank as well...usually when the shrimp touches the sponge it takes a quick hike out of the way.
Cheers
hoggie


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## Antipofish (7 Feb 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi
> Its a tad off track.
> Here is a tip when syphoning around new plants or delicate plants with detritus on them.
> Get a soft uplift sponge the one that's round with the hole similar to this :arrow: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Fish ... 45faf439f9 and get a piece of tube or your gravel cleaning tube and stick it three quarters the way down in to the sponge.
> ...



Cool tip, thanks Hoggie


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## roadmaster (8 Feb 2012)

I might consider some Amano shrimp for this tank to help police the bottom along with the cory's.
They are too large to be viewed as food by the cory's, and they enjoy feeding on any decaying matter that you can't easily remove with vacuum.


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## Antipofish (8 Feb 2012)

roadmaster said:
			
		

> I might consider some Amano shrimp for this tank to help police the bottom along with the cory's.
> They are too large to be viewed as food by the cory's, and they enjoy feeding on any decaying matter that you can't easily remove with vacuum.



Oh cool thanks roadmaster.  Only think is I am also contemplating getting some apistogrammas.  How would the Amano's fair with them IYO ?   I don't want to forego the apisto's which is a bummer as thats why I got a tank in the first place, LOL.


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## roadmaster (13 Feb 2012)

Apisto's would maybe not tolerate the Amano Shrimp or the cory's at nesting time should they indeed spawn.
Larger cory's would prolly stand a better chance, but seem to be drawn by possibly scent of eggs to nesting area's.
They are either incredibly stupid,or persistent, considering the thrashing they often receive from nesting parent's of even smaller cichlids  in my opinion.


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## Antipofish (13 Feb 2012)

roadmaster said:
			
		

> Apisto's would maybe not tolerate the Amano Shrimp or the cory's at nesting time should they indeed spawn.
> Larger cory's would prolly stand a better chance, but seem to be drawn by possibly scent of eggs to nesting area's.
> They are either incredibly stupid,or persistent, considering the thrashing they often receive from nesting parent's of even smaller cichlids  in my opinion.



Its looking more and more that I need a separate Apisto tank   What else could i have in there with them that will a) handle it and b) not eat the apisto eggs/fry ?


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