# Shallow - The Future?



## George Farmer

Shallow, wide, braceless, rimless tanks have been popular with reefers, especially in Japan for a few years now.  Amano's used them too in a few layouts.  But I've never seen one in the UK until recently.






In opti-white they look amazing.  And they make perfect sense for the aquascaping enthusiast.  All that extra depth to play with to get the best views possible.  The fish love it too, with better oxygen exchange and more surface area to swim about.





Last week I aquascaped this tank for PFK's Jeremy Gay.  I'm not allowed to show any aquascape photos or tell you what we put in there but from these photos you can get a rough idea of the dimensions - 80 x 30H x 60 cm.  That's 60cm front to back and just 30cm tall!





Perfect for growing emergent plants, protruding wood etc.  Even exposed rockwork perhaps.  And they're so easy to maintain too.  With long tweezers and scissors you hardly need to get your hands wet!  These types of tanks really do open up a whole new world of potential when compared with regular dimensions.  

For instance there's a completely new aquascape viewable from the side, with a 60 x 30H cm viewing window.  

Sure, you can achieve this with a cube but another advantage of a shallow tank is that water circulation becomes less of an issue and you can run lower lighting than usual to achieve nice carpets and/or compact plant growth.

In fact I don't really see many downsides, except for more evaporation and some fish may spook with such an open expanse above, depending on your planting and decor design.  Maybe they may not fit well into some cramped living spaces, I guess.

I think this style of aquarium has the potential to do really well with aquascaping enthusiasts and I am certainly considering one myself.  

This tank (excluding cabinet) wasn't too expensive either costing around Â£120 from UKAPS Sponsors, Aquariums Ltd.

I'd be interested to hear what you think.  Would you consider a shallow and wide tank?


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## Gill

wow, that opens up so many scaping ideas with those measurements. 
Me Loving Moss balls and Anubias, would have loads of fun scpaing something with those and nice big peices of wood. Huge span of Flattened moss Balls, or like TGm's HC Carpet.


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## Mark Evans

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'm not allowed to show any aquascape photos or tell you what we put in there but from these photos you can get a rough idea of the dimensions - 80 x 30H x 60 cm.



now I thought my wife could tease, but blimey mate!...you've just won hands down!


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## Nelson

it does look a great tank   .

us mere mortals wouldn't get it for that price though.


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## George Farmer

nelson said:
			
		

> ...wouldn't get it for that price though.


Â£120 is the RRP as I understand it.  I will confirm it if you like.


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## Mark Evans

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Would you consider a shallow and wide tank?



indeed. Often when i do water changes, the whole perspective changes when the water level is down 50% 

It'd bring challenges for sure, but the overall look would be impressive. The depth is what interest me a lot.


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## Nelson

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Â£120 is the RRP as I understand it.  I will confirm it if you like.


yes please   .


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## Garuf

I really like it but I think i'd want a little bit more height, panoramic tanks don't win me over as much as tonnes of depth does.


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## George Farmer

saintly said:
			
		

> The depth is what interest me a lot.


I think you'd also like the second viewing angle from the side.  Awesome for photography...


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## George Farmer

Garuf said:
			
		

> I really like it but I think i'd want a little bit more height, panoramic tanks don't win me over as much as tonnes of depth does.


I know what you're saying.  

If you upscaled this tank to 120cm long it would be 45cm tall and 90cm front to rear!


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## Garuf

Which would be a breath taker I'm sure, I've seen a few coral trays go on ebay recently one of which was 120cm x 50cmx 110cm wide! Imagine what you could do with that!

If this tank were mine I'd have gone for 35-42cm sort of region, like I say it's a bit less panoramic and easier for the eye to read. That said, if you ignore the tanks golden ratio and use the hardscapes pinacles then you can have a higher focal point that would minimise the stretching effect of it being so shallow.


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## George Farmer

nelson said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Â£120 is the RRP as I understand it.  I will confirm it if you like.
> 
> 
> 
> yes please   .
Click to expand...

Â£123 apparently.


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## PM

As nice as it looks, I have had a 30cm high aquarium (60x30x30) for years, and with the substrate, 20cm just isn't enough for stem plants, I have tried many stems and none have grown out of the top, they just go right across the surface. Obviously plant choice would be critical.

I always thought that 60x30x36H was a good size, with enough height for stems and a good sized window from the front.

More depth in an aquarium is always better, but intrudes far more into a living space than height and width, (in a traditional setting, i.e. along a wall).

Just my thoughts


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## Nelson

George Farmer said:
			
		

> nelson said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> George Farmer said:
> 
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> Â£120 is the RRP as I understand it.  I will confirm it if you like.
> 
> 
> 
> yes please   .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Â£123 apparently.
Click to expand...

cheers   .


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## NeilW

I'd love a tank like that when I finally get a 'real' tank.   

Also had a thought that the dimensions are better for mimicking the shallow stream biotopes of a lot of fish and inverts we see in planted tanks, almost like a true 'slice' of nature.  It also lends itself to the sort of wabi kusa style scaping I'm intrested in.  

Or even imagine an Iwagumi but with tall rocks breaking the surface!  So many opportunities for a new wave in original scaping

Â£120 for something that size and quality is a great price!  Bet you'd get stung for a cabinet to match though?


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## PM

It's an amazing price considering a 10x8x8 inch is Â£100 

DIY cabinets all the way for me  

I doubt I'd get that for Â£123, this is the problem with not having a proper pricelist and giving everyone private quotes.


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## George Farmer

PM said:
			
		

> As nice as it looks, I have had a 30cm high aquarium (60x30x30) for years, and with the substrate, 20cm just isn't enough for stem plants, I have tried many stems and none have grown out of the top, they just go right across the surface. Obviously plant choice would be critical.
> 
> I always thought that 60x30x36H was a good size, with enough height for stems and a good sized window from the front.
> 
> More depth in an aquarium is always better, but intrudes far more into a living space than height and width, (in a traditional setting, i.e. along a wall).
> 
> Just my thoughts


All good point worth considering, PM.  Thanks for sharing.


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## Mark Evans

From a photography perspective, this would be an absolute dream to work with. A 15mm lens pushed up to the glass.....


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## George Farmer

PM said:
			
		

> It's an amazing price considering a 10x8x8 inch is Â£100
> 
> DIY cabinets all the way for me
> 
> I doubt I'd get that for Â£123, this is the problem with not having a proper pricelist and giving everyone private quotes.


We're in danger of going off-topic here.  Any issues with sponsors should be done privately, as per the UKAPS rules.


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## George Farmer

NeilW said:
			
		

> I'd love a tank like that when I finally get a 'real' tank.
> 
> Also had a thought that the dimensions are better for mimicking the shallow stream biotopes of a lot of fish and inverts we see in planted tanks, almost like a true 'slice' of nature.  It also lends itself to the sort of wabi kusa style scaping I'm intrested in.
> 
> Or even imagine an Iwagumi but with tall rocks breaking the surface!  So many opportunities for a new wave in original scaping
> 
> Â£120 for something that size and quality is a great price!  Bet you'd get stung for a cabinet to match though?


All great ideas, Neil!  Go for it mate!


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## PM

Okay.


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## George Farmer

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> From a photography perspective, this would be an absolute dream to work with. A 15mm lens pushed up to the glass.....


15mm on a full-frame would be mad!  The sense of depth would be incredible.


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## Mark Evans

This, from an old 120 scape I did, was taken down the side.the furthest rock is probably about 60cm away. it looks so deep.






now having 80cm along the front to play with too, imagine what images you could get from it?.....

Then, Taking side reflections into consideration, image how big a space you could have...or perceive to have. (looks @ wallet, then looks at wife  )


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## samc

i would love the depth that tank has. maybe a bit some height though. also fitting it in a room might be tricky. i can see these becoming more popular in the future

oh and whos this mark evans guy


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## Nelson

samc said:
			
		

> oh and whos this mark evans guy


thats what i was thinking   .


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## danmil3s

ive got a side view on my 7' probably the primary view as its next to my head when i sit on the sofa i don't think i could scape it im just trying for the jungle look but the depth is nice i think the deeper it gets the harder it becomes


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## amy4342

My most recent tank is a 60w x 60d x 37h cm - lush! It's definately the easiest tank I've ever scaped. It has huge potential for emergent plants or hardscape. I think it's quite restrictive on stem plants though-they would look a bit strange due to the lack of height, and they do tend to grow along the surface rather then emerge. This would mean that a jungle style tank would I think be chaotic rather than a purposeful style, Dutch I think would not work, and the 'traditional' style tall background plants with carpet would be difficult to pull off. However-can you imagine an iwagumi with the rocks breaking the surface-it would just introduce another dimension. The tank was quite easy on the purse strings too - Â£138 a while back. Of course, the cash saved there was spend on more substrate and planting  . Presents fantastic photographic opportunities for the professionals amongst us. However, having said that, it presents a massive challenge for, shall I say, those whose photography skills can be put into the 'special' category  -I've been trying to get some decent pics of my tank now it's planted (journal update imminent!), and it's just not happening. I'm finding the exposure isn't right and camera is unable to bring everything into focus  . This is definately the most interesting size tank I've ever had I think - simply because there is so much area, that every time you look at it, you see something new somewhere. Is it the way forward? I think it may evolve another style of aquascaping, that's for sure.


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## George Farmer

amy4342 said:
			
		

> ... I think it may evolve another style of aquascaping, that's for sure.


I think you maybe right.

I wonder if it will catch on though?  It certainly has in the reef world but some of us planted folk tend to be a bit more conservative for some reason.


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## Jeremy

It's all about the shallow rimless guys!

I got the idea from this reef tank:

http://www.leonardosreef.com/leonardos-lagoon/

Its 63 x 44 x 14" (mad cool dimensions!) and from the Elos 120XL tanks that are 120 x 80cm wide.

Leonardo by the way is quite groundbreaking with his marine aquascaping. The lights and weir are still not in the league of you guys aesthetically, but I'm sure you will agree his marine tanks look quite different.

The ACS cabinet that my tank is on is awesome. He can come up with some amazing designs and finishes including metal frame with switchable panels - so you can go gloss black for a couple of years and then grey, white, blue, what ever you want after that. No cabinet warping either.

I'm going for acrylic panels in avocado next time.


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## Dan Crawford

hi guys, i've seen this tank and it's well cool! I can see me getting one in the not too distant future and at that price it's a steal! For me it would be jungle style with all sorts of stuff popping out of the top.

The cabinet is ultra cool too in piano black, i love the idea of interchangeable panels!


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## Jeremy

What's the biggest Wabi Kusa that anyone has done? The great thing about these tanks is that the shallower you go, the thinner the glass gets and the cheaper it will be.

Has anyone ever done a 120 x 75 x 15cmH Wabi Kusa, and what size does it have to be before it becomes another type of tank?


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## Mortis

Ive wanted to do a 6' x 1.5' x 1' (lwh) Iwagumi for a while now. Just some small bits of seiryu stone scattered about and some rolling 'hills'. Dwarf hairgrass would be the only plant.


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## Nelson

Jeremy said:
			
		

> What's the biggest Wabi Kusa that anyone has done?


so thats what you've done with it     .


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## George Farmer

nelson said:
			
		

> Jeremy said:
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> What's the biggest Wabi Kusa that anyone has done?
> 
> 
> 
> so thats what you've done with it     .
Click to expand...

Nice try!


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## Fred Dulley

I'd love one of these. The price tag makes it even more tempting. Would have to wait till after Uni though as moving it would be a pain.
I'd try something similar to what Garuf shared in this thread 
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11893&start=0


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## Garuf

The biggest wabi is probably the one I linked which is 9feet long I believe.


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## mr. luke

Garuf said:
			
		

> The biggest wabi is probably the one I linked which is 9feet long I believe.


The river in my garden has some nettles and moss growintg on/next to it if that counts?


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## eternal optimist

i freakin love this tank, awesome.


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## Piece-of-fish

Another great idea i could think of would be to make a middle island, maybe eben exposed from the water and to make the tank viewable from 3-4 sides with every side different.


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## Garuf

Jeremy said:
			
		

> what size does it have to be before it becomes another type of tank?


Strictly speaking, Jeremy, a wabi kusa is a brand name for a product sold by ADA, these are basically a ball of substrate with moss and stem plants in it available off the peg, you just add it to a hi-tech tank. The term has now been applied to a more informal sort of set up that's emeresed growth. The planting tends to be more naturalistic and hap-hazard in line with wabi sabi ideology of imperfection and beauty. 
So really, unless it was made by ADA it's not a wabi-kusa at all.


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## Jon1706

Hi George /  everyone  this is really interesting and after reading this it something that I would love to know more about because I think it look great in a living room or office. I got a few questions so I'm really sorry if they seem dumb lol sorry in advance. 
You said you "you can run lower lighting than usual to achieve nice carpets and/or compact plant growth" so what lighting would you go for something like this Arcadia Classica 150W Metal Halide Pendant Light or would this be a over kill? 
As for the water circulation could you get away with running just lily pipes or just a spray bar? and no power heads even with C02? And while on the subject of C02 could you run it in a tank like this or would there be to much C02 evaporation. I know the size of this tank is 60x 80x30cms but could you do one say 60x60x30cm and still get the same benefits of the 60x80x30 with the depth and ect ? 
Again sorry for all the questions    
Jon


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## Mark Evans

Jon1706 said:
			
		

> so what lighting would you go for something like this Arcadia Classica 150W Metal Halide Pendant Light or would this be a over kill?



not really. you could have a 400w bulb if it was physically suspended high enough. I've run a 150MH over a 60L with no issues what so ever.


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## PM

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Jon1706 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> so what lighting would you go for something like this Arcadia Classica 150W Metal Halide Pendant Light or would this be a over kill?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not really. you could have a 400w bulb if it was physically suspended high enough. I've run a 150MH over a 60L with no issues what so ever.
Click to expand...


Except the environment


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## LondonDragon

PM said:
			
		

> Except the environment


And the pocket!!


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## a1Matt

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> PM said:
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> Except the environment
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> And the pocket!!
Click to expand...


and having a floodlit room


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## Mark Evans

I didn't mean literally. hypothetically speaking. 

OK, do it how you see fit.


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## eternal optimist

keep checking to see if pics have been posted yet for this...

i'm putting a bit away each week to buy one of these and going to diy a cabinet for it with diy suspended light rig. cant wait to see what george has done here!


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## Mark Evans

here's a good example.

http://naacademy.pl/Galerie/JAPAN-2009- ... ?photo=224


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## nry

Man love and plant love all in the same photo


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## nry

Some seriously good photo's and tanks in that gallery, navigation is a bit weird though.


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## nry

One of these?


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## Mark Evans

if you register, there's tons of great images from NAG. it's in polish, but use google translate to help register...


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## LondonDragon

Bit off topic but what plant is this??

http://naacademy.pl/Galerie/JAPAN-2009- ... m?photo=21


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## Mark Evans

i reckon it's bolbitis paulo. 

It's insane isn't it. it must of taken years to get it that big.


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## viktorlantos

i think this is more of a japanese fern. in Japan they use many ferns above the surface levels. but i am not familiar with that which species is this.


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## GreenNeedle

I'm not so sure they'll take off.  Not in a huge way at least.  The dimensions remind me of those coffee table tanks that everyone used to slag off!!!

I wonder if the coffee tables will re-appear on mass if these sort of dimensions do become popular?

AC


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## sarahtermite

It does look gorgeous (potentially); but it'd be hard to fit into my tiny house!


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## mitchelllawson

Anyone have a link on were you would even think about buying one of these tank, they look amazing.


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## Themuleous

A few of our sponsours will custom make tanks almost without limit on their dimentions so give them a try or google it 

Sam


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## LondonDragon

TGM do them, from their recent newsletter: http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... bb364f4bae


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## Morgan Freeman

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> TGM do them, from their recent newsletter: http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... bb364f4bae



And such a bargain!


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## J Butler

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> LondonDragon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TGM do them, from their recent newsletter: http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... bb364f4bae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And such a bargain!
Click to expand...


hehe, was that sarcasm? Shipping tanks from Japan will always hike the price up, +1 on looking at a custom made jobby. You won't get the pretty sticker but optiwhite glass is the same over here as it is all over the world (atleast I think so   )

One big advantage to these shallow tanks is that the glass thickness is reduced by a fair amount so I think you might be pleasently surprised with quotes.


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## Morgan Freeman

A little. I don't deny the quality of ADA tanks, but that's a hefty price tag!

I do like shallow scapes though, 4 x 1 x 2 is a size I'd like to work with.


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## gillo45

I think shallow scales look great and would be perfect in an office like mine ADA? Hmm I'm thinking


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## George Farmer

I had my 60x40x25H optiwhite made by Coral Aquarium Cabinets for around £100. The silicone work isn't as high a standard as ADA but for £100 it's good value IMO.

For me the combination of shallow height and wide front to rear depth is the main attraction. As an aquascaper I consider decent front to rear depth as essential. It also provides for a larger surface area and overall volume, thus improving oxygen exchange and environmental stability (although evaporation rates will be higher).

I've seen a couple of ADA-F tanks in the flesh and they are lovely, but the 30cm front to rear depth (all the way up to 120cm length) is disappointingly low. 

These days I would personally be very reluctant to buy any aquarium over 45cm in length with <=30cm front to rear depth.


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## Orlando

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> Is it possible you could have the tank taller at the back & sloping down to the front so you have a shallow front and deep back?




How would this favor in holding water though?


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## danmil3s

> The water would slope downward,


those pesky neutrinos what are they up to now   
don't think it will work mate some thing to do with gravity. if you where it seal it like a fluval edge that might work? who fancy s a diy sloped tank, be a pain to plant bit a nice talking peace.


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## George Farmer

This is my shallow tank. Click the link below the image for more info.

Best set-up I've ever owned.


60cm shallow optiwhite - Day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## Gary Nelson

Very nice that George, I really like those cabinets too - how many tanks do you have now?


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## George Farmer

Gary Nelson said:
			
		

> Very nice that George, I really like those cabinets too - how many tanks do you have now?


Thanks. Yes, the cabinets are lovely and great value IMO.

Just the two mate. This and the Fluval Profile 1000.  I barely have time to maintain two, let alone any more!


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## Gary Nelson

Well they both look good, I will be watching what you do on the profile 1000 - love those fish.

Yes I know what you mean about time...my Mrs just raises her eyebrows at me now when its aquarium maintenance time!


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## plantbrain

George Farmer said:
			
		

> This is my shallow tank. Click the link below the image for more info.
> 
> Best set-up I've ever owned.
> 
> 
> 60cm shallow optiwhite - Day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr



My newer tanks have all been the nice ADA like stand and wide shallow tanks.
I find working on them more pleasurable.

I still have the 180 Gal, but due to the size and thick glass at 20mm, it's a bear to move. But that will be upgraded evetually.

I'll replace the lights next and then once we move.......I'll sell the tank and get the new opti white custom made tank and nicer edge work and silicone.

Then I just buy the new stand and tank only, I'll have everything else.

I'll likely keep the same height on this tank however, the other 4 tanks are still 45cm tall only.
But I'll change the depth to 75cm from 60cm on the tank. No way getting out of the 20mm glass, so I might as well take up up some depth.

I generally view the tanks most when sitting down, so the stands reflect this and are 60cm tall and then this places me at eye level in the middle on the tank, and when standing, I have a nice bird's eye view above, making access to gardening perfect even with the depth front to back.


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