# Alternatives for dosing



## tgc (30 Nov 2007)

I'm looking for what alternatives are out there for getting ferts etc in the water colum without having to do daily doseing, this is due to me working away and can't expect the wife to have to carry on the routein when I'm away.

At the moment i have one of those fert "put in and forget for three months" bags.

Cheers in advance.

Tim


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## daniel19831123 (30 Nov 2007)

feed your fish well and in excess then you get your NPK sorted. If you have really densely planted tank then that might not be adequate though. However, this all depends a lot on the setup that you might have. It would be useful to know what lighting you've got, what size tank, substrate, dosing regime, water change regime etc etc. The more information available, the more others can advice you on alternative dosing method


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## tgc (30 Nov 2007)

Tank is Trigon 350, lighting 125w MV pendant, water changes 20% weekly, sand substrate, and as for ferts one of those afore mentioned bags, oh yes and soon to be pressurised c02.

Cheers Tim


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## tgc (4 Dec 2007)

Anyone?


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## Dan Crawford (4 Dec 2007)

I believe that you can dose EI once a week.............I dose every other day as per the Nutricalc software so i've not tried it but i believe it to be possible.


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## daniel19831123 (4 Dec 2007)

With an inert substrate like sand, It's best to go with EI dosing. There is no nutrient provided by the sand so the plants will not grow well if you depends on fish waste to feed your plants. Over feeding the fish in this case will only lead to sufficient amount of NPK in the water column but lack in micros and trace element.


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## ceg4048 (4 Dec 2007)

tgc said:
			
		

> Tank is Trigon 350, lighting 125w MV pendant, water changes 20% weekly, sand substrate, and as for ferts one of those afore mentioned bags, oh yes and soon to be pressurised c02.
> 
> Cheers Tim



Hi Tim,
            I guess I'm not really sure how many gallons a Trigon 350 is. 350 litres maybe? If that's the case your lighting is only around 1.4 WPG which is low enough light that a once a week dosing is all you need to be doing anyway. If you're now going to add CO2 then about 15ppm CO2 is all you'd need. Add a bit more ferts that's all, I figure. I don't see any cause for concern unless I've miscalculated and if a Trigon 350 is actually only 35 litres..  


Cheers,


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## daniel19831123 (4 Dec 2007)

it is 350 litres


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## tgc (4 Dec 2007)

Yeah 350 ltrs  

Just started with the pressurised c02, so you say 15ppm should be ok?

At the moment I'm only looking to keep different variaties of moss.

Thanks for all the advice so far..... just been reading Tom Barr's EI write-up  :?  straight over my head at the moment but I shall keep going and just keep reading it over and over until it sinks in.

Cheers Tim


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## ceg4048 (4 Dec 2007)

Yes, 15ppm ought to be fine for starters but what's more important as, it's been pointed out in other threads is that the CO2 is stable and that it doesn't wander up and down during the photoperiod. Check the CO2 article in the Cookbook section. That's mostly aimed at highly lit tanks but the same principles apply for low light.

If you have trouble interpreting Barr's info you can ask and we can try to clarify for you. 8) 

Cheers,


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## tgc (5 Dec 2007)

Right, just tried to read through Tom Barr report and just ended up bamboozling myself again!

Could someone give me an estimate of how much and of what I should dose for once a week dosing???

Also is it best to use powders for this type of dosing.

Where the bast place to get said powders etc??

Cheers Tim


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## George Farmer (5 Dec 2007)

I'd use something like Tropica Plant Nutrition+ for once per week dosing.  It already contains NPK and all the traces you'll need.

If you're on a budget then pre-mixing a PMDD+PO4 style solution may work.

It is better to dose little and often though, if possible.

Hopefully JamesC will chime in...


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## ceg4048 (5 Dec 2007)

tgc said:
			
		

> Right, just tried to read through Tom Barr report and just ended up bamboozling myself again!
> 
> Could someone give me an estimate of how much and of what I should dose for once a week dosing???
> 
> ...



Check this site for availability of  dry ferts or for the Tropica liquids: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/

For a low light 350l you could try the following once a week dry salts:

1 teaspoon KNO3
1/4 teaspoon KH2PO4
1/2 teaspoon CSM+B (or 22ml TPN)
1/2 teaspoon GH booster

If you decide to use the TPN+ as George alluded to the dosing instructions are on the label (50ml per 50L of water). This means a single product versus 4 different powders, but cost could be an issue. The dry salts are much cheaper.

These numbers are not written in stone. They are just starting numbers and may need adjusting depending on plant mass, fish mass, lighting etc. Observe the plants and if you see signs of deficiency such as algae, stunted/deformed growth and so forth you can make adjustments.

Cheers,


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## tgc (5 Dec 2007)

So, so far its 

Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2P04)
Potassium Nitrate (KN03)
GH Booster
CSM+B (can't find this)

So you think the amounts stated would be ok for heavy stocking (discus), also at the moment I just looking at keep lots of different types of mosses.

Cheers


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## milla (5 Dec 2007)

CSM + B is also known as trace


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## tgc (5 Dec 2007)

This? http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145_146&products_id=546


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## Themuleous (5 Dec 2007)

Thats the one


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## JamesC (5 Dec 2007)

I'll throw the cat in amongst the pidgeons. Your lighting is what I'd call pretty low. MV's tend to be raised much higher up than fluorescents so the wpg rule doesn't really work here. I would say you will get more than enough NPK from the fish and food so no need to buy any extra. I presume you mean the Pro Aqua bags. These along with your fish and food should be plenty IMO. If you ditched the Pro Aqua bags then you could dose just normal Tropica Plant Nutrtion as directed on the bottle.

James


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## tgc (5 Dec 2007)

> I'll throw the cat in amongst the pidgeons. Your lighting is what I'd call pretty low. MV's tend to be raised much higher up than fluorescents so the wpg rule doesn't really work here. I would say you will get more than enough NPK from the fish and food so no need to buy any extra. I presume you mean the Pro Aqua bags. These along with your fish and food should be plenty IMO. If you ditched the Pro Aqua bags then you could dose just normal Tropica Plant Nutrtion as directed on the bottle.
> 
> James



The MV lamp height above the water as well as the depth of the tank works out about 30" above substrate.

So if i look to get about 15ppm C02 and just keep the fish well fed, swop the bag for the  tropica plant nutrition and increase the amount of water changes we should be ok??


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## JamesC (5 Dec 2007)

15 ppm CO2 is good, just keep it stable. Sorry didn't word it too well but the Pro Aqua bags are OK to use and there is no reason to not carry on with them. But if you ran out or fancied a change then Tropica Plant Nutrition could be used instead. 

I'd carry on as you are to be honest and see how it goes. 

James


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## George Farmer (5 Dec 2007)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> If you decide to use the TPN+ as George alluded to the dosing instructions are on the label (50ml per 50L of water).



I think it's 5ml per 50L.


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## ceg4048 (5 Dec 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Woops! Sorry about that..  

Cheers,


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## Ray (5 Dec 2007)

This is a bit sad, to correct George over his own words, but he quite clearly says here:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=138

That he is adding 5ml/day TPN+ to his Rio 125. 

Tell me if I'm wrong George, cos I'm dosing 1ml/day in my 25L to correct my yellow Java Fern  (which ironically George now reports is a problem he has too...).


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