# Filtering the Scape



## Jakes (28 Mar 2017)

So I have been running a fairly basic filter insert setup for a while now and thought I would post it here for comment/discussion.
I stopped using any chemical filtration a while ago up to that point i used a phosphate sponge and activated carbon.
The filter is a AquaManta EFX300 rated at 1100L/h.
So my media in the filter from bottom(in) to top(out).

Layer 1 - Plastic Bio Balls, this is to catch the larger particles (leaves etc) and spread the water flow a little





Layer 2 - first of two media baskets in which I have two grades of sponges and filter floss:



Close up of the sponges and floss the flow goes blue black white:




Layer 3 - last basket, I have a mix if Fluval ceramic rings and sintered glass media that came with the filter, i top that of with another black sponge, basically to fill the basket and stop the media from rattling about in the canister

I packed the Fluval rings in a layer at the bottom then topped it off with the sintered glass media:




I then add the black sponge to top it all off before replacing the filter pump housing.




Originally the manufacturer's layout was the following order:
Bio Balls
Tray 1
    Sintered Glass Media
    Coarse sponge
Tray 2
Black sponge
Phosphate sponge
Carbon

After reading various articles on filtration I opted for the setup I am currently running.  In my mind anyway the water gets 'cleaned' from foreign matter before reaching the ceramic/sintered glass media and then biological action can take place.  Clearly the sponges and bio-balls will also hold bacteria, and i only rinse them in de-chlorinated water to maintain the bacteria but my 'main' bio filtration is the ceramic media.

The filtered water then enters the tank but I have a in line CO2 Atomiser to add even more CO2 after the bacteria used what oxygen they could.

Comments discussion always welcomed.

Regards
Jakes






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305 (29 Mar 2017)

Hi all, 





Jakes said:


> Comments discussion always welcomed.


The first thing to say is: 

Because you have a planted tank what you put in the filter is of much less relevance than it would have if you didn't have plants and were entirely reliant on microbial filtration. Plant/microbe filtration is a *lot *more effective than "microbe only" filtration.

Personally I'd take the floss and the finer sponge out. I like the mechanical filtration to be by an easy clean pre-filter on the intake. I have very weedy tanks so can hide these, but I realize that isn't an option for every-one.

The problem with fine mechanical media (floss, ppi30 sponge etc) in a canister filter is that it will clog fairly quickly and potentially impede flow through the filter. This means that every week or so you have to open the filter to change the floss, and wash out the fine sponge, but if you have a pre-filter rinsing this out takes seconds, and you are much more likely to do it regularly. The canister body itself can remain undisturbed for ~6 months at a time.

A finite amount of oxygen enters the filter, once it is in the sealed canister there is no route for gas exchange, and the potential is for the filter media  to become anaerobic and ammonia levels in the tank to rise.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Jakes (29 Mar 2017)

Cheers Darrel,

I do have to clean the filter every other week due to flow rates dropping.  Ill look into a pre-filter that can fit over my intake and give that a go.

Jakes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305 (29 Mar 2017)

Hi all, 





Jakes said:


> I do have to clean the filter every other week due to flow rates dropping.  Ill look into a pre-filter that can fit over my intake and give that a go.


It is pretty ugly, but the "EHEIM PREFILTER for External Canister Filter" (<"EHEIM part no. 4004320">) works well. 

I mainly use the large drilled foam blocks that <"you can buy for Koi ponds">.  The main advantage of these is that you can leave them for a lot longer without cleaning (some of my tanks are at work, and I have time periods when I'm not in the lab.).

cheers Darrel


----------



## Progen (30 Mar 2017)

You're right about the ugly part.  If he's considering a pre-filter, I'd suggest an external one like the Sunsun type if they're not asking for silly prices (they're about USD11 at my dude). I'm using a Jaqno one which is similar but which I won't recommend although it looks nicer because of the dodgy quality of their fittings.


----------



## alto (30 Mar 2017)

I run Eheim professional series filters on my bigger planted tanks with standard intake/outake & media, it takes months before the flow drop is significant


----------



## Progen (30 Mar 2017)

alto said:


> I run Eheim professional series filters on my bigger planted tanks with standard intake/outake & media, it takes months before the flow drop is significant



The finer the media, the more effective it is at 'polishing' the water but the faster and worse it'll impede water flow since it clogs up easier.

That's why pre-filters are a good idea if your have fine media in your canister since they're easier to clean.


----------



## alto (30 Mar 2017)

I always run Eheim fine (white) & coarse(blue sponge) filter pads - as I stated, take months for significant flow reduction
BUT if you have lots of plant melt debris or substrate dust I suppose they might "clog" quickly

I like *very* clear water so always use polishing media


----------



## Progen (31 Mar 2017)

Another important factor for the lazy (me somewhere there) is the flow rating of the filter. If your real world flow rate is only 3 - 4 of your tank's volume, then you'll notice it sooner the moment your media starts clogging up. 

Anyway, I just might give one of these polishing pads a try one of these days but to save myself trouble, I'll need a prefilter before the canister. Right now, my prefilter unit is actually a CO2 reactor and connected to the outflow.


----------



## Easternlethal (31 Mar 2017)

you can make much bigger and nicer ones  with a little diy knowledge 

Sent from my 2014817 using Tapatalk


----------



## Madhav (31 Mar 2017)

Can we use classic 2213 or 2215 as a pre filter for Pro 3 2075 or 2078e ? I have a spare classic lying around useless, i might store it in the intake line than in the store room.
only problem is piping, classic is 12/16 and Pro 3 is 16/22, I have reducers but I worry the load on Pro3 by introducing classic as a prefilter.
I am not planning to run the classic pump, just use it as pre filter/ sub filter.

any one tried?


----------



## Progen (31 Mar 2017)

Prefilters are very basic and straightforward in their water flow. Go in one end, pass through a few layers of coarse media and then out. Canister filters on the other hand draw water into the bottom of their canisters before passing them upwards through various compartments. More impedance than in a prefilter. Also as you've said, the smaller diameter of your Eheim's hosing will cause unequal water flow. 

Factor in the loss through the Eheim's canister and you'll be looking at quite a big drop. Guess that's why prefilters are usually based on KISS principles. 

To the experts, please feel free to correct me. I'm not a man of science but I'd like to think that my logic is sound.


----------



## Soilwork (5 Apr 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, The first thing to say is:
> 
> Because you have a planted tank what you put in the filter is of much less relevance than it would have if you didn't have plants and were entirely reliant on microbial filtration. Plant/microbe filtration is a *lot *more effective than "microbe only" filtration.
> 
> ...



If ammonia levels in a tank rise due to a dirty filter, wouldnt this be more beneficial to the plants?  If plant microbe filtration is superior could i not just pull all my filter media out of my canister to allow maximum flow and allow the plants more access to ammonia and waste particles?  Ive been thinking about doing this for a while but have just been lacking that faith to make the leap.


----------



## Daveslaney (5 Apr 2017)

I think your plant mass would need to be high and your fish/shrimp stocking be very low for this to work?
Natural waters are much less densly populated than our aquariums.


----------



## dw1305 (5 Apr 2017)

Hi all,





Soilwork said:


> If ammonia levels in a tank rise due to a dirty filter, wouldnt this be more beneficial to the plants?  If plant microbe filtration is superior could i not just pull all my filter media out of my canister to allow maximum flow and allow the plants more access to ammonia and waste particles?  Ive been thinking about doing this for a while but have just been lacking that faith to make the leap.


If you look at the low tech. tank purely in terms of plant growth there is no advantage to having a filter, although water movement is still beneficial (because it increases the gas exchange surface area).  

You certainly can run a planted tank, with fish, successfully with just water movement. 

You really need to think of the tank in terms of the oxygen balance, and the capacity for microbial filtration is limited by the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water. If you have a lot of livestock and no substrate, then you have a large biochemical oxygen demand (BOD) and if you have a fish death etc you run the risk that ammonia may build up to toxic levels before the floating, or epiphytic plants, can incorporate it.   

If you have a substrate, but no filter, you should have higher levels of dissolved oxygen in the water column, and that should create a larger oxygenated area in the substrate. Even though the difference in depth of the aerobic zone may only be millimeters, that converts into a reasonably large increase in volume across the whole basal area of the tank.   

The microbial ammonia oxidisers that would have been in the filter will be in the upper levels of the substrate.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Soilwork (5 Apr 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,If you look at the low tech. tank purely in terms of plant growth there is no advantage to having a filter, although water movement is still beneficial (because it increases the gas exchange surface area).
> 
> You certainly can run a planted tank, with fish, successfully with just water movement.
> 
> ...



This is what I was thinking.  Of course uprooting and fish deaths etc would be more critical.  But if you have a healthy plant mass to begin with and make the changes slowly then more nitrogen = healthier plants = further oxygenation.

I read that the Germans often run fully planted tanks with minimal filtration for this very reason.  I think it may also be to do with the fact that when using urea and a source of N they want it to actually be metabolised by the plants and not the AOB/AOA.


----------



## dw1305 (6 Apr 2017)

Soilwork said:


> I read that the Germans often run fully planted tanks with minimal filtration for this very reason. I think it may also be to do with the fact that when using urea and a source of N they want it to actually be metabolised by the plants and not the AOB/AOA.


I've read that as well, you also get the alternative view that you shouldn't have plants, because they take ammonia away from the filter bacteria. There is a urea thread on UKAPS at <"Dosing with Ammonia....">.

I think that both arguments are really based on the assumption that it is one option or the other, my personal view would be that it is a synergistic effect where plant and micro-organisms together add up to more than the sum of their parts.

This is an article by <"Dr Tim Hovanec">, <"Aquatic plants and nitrogen cycle">, that comes to the same conclusions.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Daveslaney (6 Apr 2017)

You would have to use some mechanical filtration though?Or how would you see your plants and fish?
At the very least you would get green water i would think?


----------



## dw1305 (6 Apr 2017)

Hi all, 





Daveslaney said:


> You would have to use some mechanical filtration though?Or how would you see your plants and fish? At the very least you would get green water i would think?


You shouldn't get "green water", their presence relates to the nutrient content of the water, assuming that there is a large plant mass then they shouldn't be a problem.

cheers Darrel


----------



## dean (7 Apr 2017)

dw1305 said:


> I mainly use the large drilled foam blocks that <"you can buy for Koi ponds">.  The main advantage of these is that you can leave them for a lot longer without cleaning (some of my tanks are at work, and I have time periods when I'm not in the lab.).
> 
> cheers Darrel



Any pics of these in place ?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305 (7 Apr 2017)

Hi all, 





dean said:


> Any pics of these in place ?


This is on a Maxijet powerhead, but I use the same arrangement on the filter intakes. What you can't see is that the is a "collar" of foam around the base of the power-head to ensure a good fit in the drilled hole. I just DIY these from a foam sheet.






I'm still using that particular sponge and power-head on this tank:





cheers Darrel


----------



## dean (7 Apr 2017)

Darrel 
Do you find them easy to hide from view ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

