# Remove Juwel filter on a RIO 400



## sanj (11 Apr 2008)

Hello,

I was reading up on the guide for High tech planted aquaria and there was a comment on removing or adding to the Juwel internal filter.

The situation I have is that this Aquarium forms a divide in my terraced house. The downs stairs used to have two rooms but were knocked through in to one big room. The area where the wall used to be would be quite stong as the floor joists meets here.

So you can see the back of the tank from one side of the room and therefore wanted to keep the ugly pipes etc minimal to one side of the aquarium (wall side). 

So I was thinking that i would have to remove the internal filter to be able to get the pipes through for an external. I would also probably need to have only one external because of minimalising the pipework. Does that sound ok?

Next question, which external is better? I have seen the recommended Eheim 2080 and the XP5. The first has lower turnover (1700lph vs 2300), but the eheim has 12litres of media volume and the Fluval FX5 is 5.9.

So... flow over media volume or the other way round? Hmmm.... nothings simple.


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## Ed Seeley (12 Apr 2008)

Removing the internal filter will get rid of a big bulky object in your tank so a good idea if it would be easily seen, especially from both sides.  And, as you said it does cramp the access hole at that end for pipes from the filter.  For aesthetics sake I think you've made the right choice.  Are you going to use a CO2 reactor to keep the CO2 equipment out of the tank too?

I think you've got the filters options right too.  Ideally want to aim for around 10x the water volume circulated every hour so for a Rio 400 that means getting towards 4,000 lph but one of those giant filters should do the job.

As to which filter to choose I haven't used either so will leave it to other to make recommendations.  I have an Ehiem 2128 (750lph) on a 180l tank and I like the large media capacity and relatively slower flow for the size but they are expensive compared to other makes.  The 2080 has a turnover of 1,700lph so will give you a similar turnover relative to tank size.


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## sanj (12 Apr 2008)

Thanks Ed,

I had not thought about using an external co2 reactor. I currently have a jbl one, although i managed to get a 2kg canister from some place in Birmingham that refills for pubs and fire extinguishers.

The Juwel internal filter is 14litres although i think the media ara is more likely closer to 10. Do you think it would be a disadvantage to use the rena which has possibly half the media area?


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## Ed Seeley (12 Apr 2008)

sanj said:
			
		

> Thanks Ed,
> 
> I had not thought about using an external co2 reactor. I currently have a jbl one, although i managed to get a 2kg canister from some place in Birmingham that refills for pubs and fire extinguishers.
> 
> The Juwel internal filter is 14litres although i think the media ara is more likely closer to 10. Do you think it would be a disadvantage to use the rena which has possibly half the media area?



What Rena one?  Do you mean the Fluval?

I'm amazed an FX5 has such a small amount of media.  When I looked at one it seemed huge!  Whatever one you choose make sure you fill it mainly with a sintered glass biological media (I use JBL Sintomec but any, such as Ehiem Ehfisubstrat is fine).  This has much higher surface area and offers a range of different niches for colonisation by bacteria and other microbes in the filter.  I have replaced half the media in my Jewel filter with this and it's doing a great job.  I think you might be best going for the Fluval as it's got the better flow rate and this is much more crucial than media volume (as long as you have enough media).  You might want to look at this threadtoo.

You can make an external CO2 reactor which will do a great job and much cheaper than buying one.  I have one on my older tank which provided 30ppm CO2 with only 1bps.  Using a glass diffuser in my new tank (same volume) I need about 2bps to do the same.  I've posted how I built mine here.  You'd have to make sure you used 16mm pipe fitting though as mine uses 12mm (and needs changing!!!)


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## sanj (12 Apr 2008)

Hi Ed,

I was in Maidenhead Aquatics, Peterborough, they only had the FX5 in and it is huge. I bought it...along with everything else...so much money!

However the info can be misleading, the total filter volume is 20 litres, there is a ring of sponge around  the chambers, it is the chamber that you fill with your own media that is 6 litres (x 3 compartments). still a little unclear, maybe they mean each compartment is 6 litres.

Another thing about flow rate:

Pump Output: 3,500 lph
Filter circulation: 2,130 lph (in the document), however this was testing without media and assumes both the inlet/outlet tubes are the same length.

Still, seems the most powerful short of obtaining a pond filter. lol


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## sanj (12 Apr 2008)

> What Rena one? Do you mean the Fluval?



Oh yes, im getting mixed up because I have a rena XP3 in the low tech aquarium.


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## Ed Seeley (12 Apr 2008)

Good choice I think.  Has it got media to go in the baskets already or do you have to buy some?


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## sanj (14 Apr 2008)

The outer ring of sponge is the only media they gaive, you have to buy your own media for the chambers. I a couple of boxes of biomax (i think sintered glass) to go in two chambers and the third i was going to put filter pads or maybe just fill it all with sintered glass ?


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## Ed Seeley (14 Apr 2008)

Personally I have the bottom tray full of ceramic media for coarse mechanical filtration and some biological filtration with a layer of coarse blue foam on top.  Then a tray full of sintered glass media then the top tray is left empty or contains peat, carbon or Purigen depending on what I need to use.

I'm not sure about how the water flows around the Fluval though as it seems to have foam around each container doesn't it?


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## sanj (15 Apr 2008)

Yes the water flows up through the bottom through the sponge surrounding the containers and then down into the containers.


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## Ed Seeley (15 Apr 2008)

sanj said:
			
		

> Yes the water flows up through the bottom through the sponge surrounding the containers and then down into the containers.



So does it only pass through one container then to the pump or does it have to flow through all three containers?  I'm just thinking that if it doesn't pass through all three before returning you may as well put some biological media in each basket instead.


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## ceg4048 (15 Apr 2008)

Ed, I'm not 100% sure but I think the flow path is very similar to the Eheim where water enters at the top and is pre-filtered by the foam. The water then falls to the bottom on the periphery of the cylinder and is drawn up through the various chambers. The noodles would go in the bottom for further mechanical filtration and the sintered glass or other biomedia would go in the upper chambers.

Cheers,


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## Ed Seeley (16 Apr 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Ed, I'm not 100% sure but I think the flow path is very similar to the Eheim where water enters at the top and is pre-filtered by the foam. The water then falls to the bottom on the periphery of the cylinder and is drawn up through the various chambers. The noodles would go in the bottom for further mechanical filtration and the sintered glass or other biomedia would go in the upper chambers.
> 
> Cheers,



Isn't there foam around each chamber though?  I agree it'd make much more sense if it did as it'd have 3x the contact time but why the three lots of foam then?

I've just read the online instruction manual and am still none the wiser!  It does say the cleanest water is the _bottom _chamber so implying there is flow from top to bottom but I can't tell whether the water flows through the foam and into the central core all the way down or just at the top somehow?  It's also not clear whether the water passes through all three foams in series or just goes through one lot of foam into the centre!  It doesn't sound like it works like the Ehiems!

Come on guys, who's got one of these filters and can let me know?


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## sanj (16 Apr 2008)

I havent set mine up yet, but I was under the impression it flows up through the foam and then down through the containers. Ill be able to say more then i have another look. The pump and expellar is a the bottom...thats different from my Rena filstar.


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