# thegreenmachineonline



## peter.k

Hi.
Does anybody have experience with ordering from TGM website?
Particularly extremely slow delivery and  unable to login on their website since today.


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## Wisey

I have ordered plants from them a couple of times, once towards the end of last year and delivery was very slow. They said they had it in stock, but were too busy and short staffed to send it out! I waited 3 days for them to just post it out and that was paying £13.95 for express delivery! I would not have gone back to them after that, but I complained and they offered a discount on postage. I placed another order last week, that arrived on time, but they knew to ensure that it arrived on a specific date.

My order last week included one plant in bad condition and another in really poor condition. I'm getting a refund from them on one of them, but in future I will heed the advice given on these forums and stick to companies like Aquarium Gardens and Aqua Essentials. To be fair, the rest of my order was great condition Tropica plants, but that's twice now that things have not been spot on and I won't be giving them a third chance.

They have recently changed their shop opening hours and said to me that this was to improve their online order delivery process, so they do at least know they have had some issues and need to improve.

As for the website, it's been slow in general ever since their redesign, either bad code or their hosting is not up to the volume maybe.

EDIT: I can't log in to TGM at the moment, its taking forever. Suspect it will time out at some point...


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## darren636

I wanted a few Java ferns.
After postage it worked out at almost £30 .


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## Michal550

I have ordered plants from them once and never again! They were in very bad condition.


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## gareth777

awful service a 1 week order took 10 weeks and I always had to contact them they would never advise me! and to make it worse the order turned up one day with no warring and left on the path outside my house luckily my neighbour see it this order was not a cheap order either when I contacted them about this issue they blanked me and still not had a response back to this day


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## dan4x4

Yeah they are expensive, now I have found more local fish stores I don't use them.


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## peter.k

gareth777 said:


> awful service a 1 week order took 10 weeks and I always had to contact them they would never advise me! and to make it worse the order turned up one day with no warring and left on the path outside my house luckily my neighbour see it this order was not a cheap order either when I contacted them about this issue they blanked me and still not had a response back to this day


10weeks? Hmm so I still have 8 weeks to go . Is there anybody else in UK, who is selling ADA aqua soil?


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## Colinlp

Never had a problem with them, plants always in perfect condition and if what I ordered was in stock then next day delivery and if not then either a phone call or an email to let me know. 

They have started shutting on Saturdays recently which is a bit rubbish, I hope that isn't a sign of something more ominous


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## Nelson

http://www.aquajardin.co.uk/section/338/1/ada_amano_plant_care


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## Miss Pennyapple

I used to order from them years ago and each time received excellent plants and excellent service. However, I ordered from them last year and I won't be using them again! Service and customer care seems to have gone awol at Green Machine unfortunately. 

I ordered a full size plant and was sent a 1-2 grow version instead which was a few pounds cheaper than what I had paid for. I contacted them and they said they would refund the difference but I would have preferred to have been sent the plant actually ordered, as I pointed out to them. The 1-2 grow plants didn't last long and were soon in the bin! Delivery is also painfully slow.  Now I use Aqua Essentials - very fast delivery and great plants.


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## Wisey

Colinlp said:


> Never had a problem with them, plants always in perfect condition and if what I ordered was in stock then next day delivery and if not then either a phone call or an email to let me know.
> 
> They have started shutting on Saturdays recently which is a bit rubbish, I hope that isn't a sign of something more ominous



When I complained to them about the service I received back in November, they told me the store hours changing were so they could better deal with online orders. Back in November, I placed my order pretty early in the morning, between 9 and 10, but apparently that was too late in the day to make the cut off! Look at AE who use the same courier, cut off is end of the day. They told me that everything was in stock and it would be dispatched the following day, that they had put all my plants aside and it was ready to go. The following day I received no dispatch e-mail, so I gave them a call to find out why it had not been sent. Do you know what I was told? They said that they only have 2 people picking and 1 person packing, so it was not their fault that they had not had time to pick and pack and send my order that day. Really? Is that an acceptable excuse, that they have so much business and some of the highest prices out there, but don't pay enough staff or have effective processes to handle their orders? They finally dispatched it on day 3, but this meant that it didn't make it to Aberdeen until Saturday. I then had to go get it from the DPD depot on the Saturday otherwise it would have sat there all weekend. What did I pay for the pleasure of this speedy express service, £13.95!

I suspect that they do indeed have issues with their business, highest prices around, then they must spend a FORTUNE on these fancy display tanks. How much business do you really think they do through the shop compare to online? Considering they now only open Monday to Friday during standard working hours when most people are not able to visit and they are closed at weekends to give them more time to handle online orders suggests that their real money is made online and they now need to pick up their game to compete with companies like AE that sell plants which are just as good if not better for a lower price combined with service where they don't act like they are always right and the customer is wrong. They can't just trade on their old reputation for ever, they need to compete on price and service and at the moment they are lacking in both.


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## darren636

Sounds like complacency to me.


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## Colinlp

Wisey said:


> When I complained to them about the service I received back in November, they told me the store hours changing were so they could better deal with online orders. Back in November, I placed my order pretty early in the morning, between 9 and 10, but apparently that was too late in the day to make the cut off! Look at AE who use the same courier, cut off is end of the day. They told me that everything was in stock and it would be dispatched the following day, that they had put all my plants aside and it was ready to go. The following day I received no dispatch e-mail, so I gave them a call to find out why it had not been sent. Do you know what I was told? They said that they only have 2 people picking and 1 person packing, so it was not their fault that they had not had time to pick and pack and send my order that day. Really? Is that an acceptable excuse, that they have so much business and some of the highest prices out there, but don't pay enough staff or have effective processes to handle their orders? They finally dispatched it on day 3, but this meant that it didn't make it to Aberdeen until Saturday. I then had to go get it from the DPD depot on the Saturday otherwise it would have sat there all weekend. What did I pay for the pleasure of this speedy express service, £13.95!
> 
> I suspect that they do indeed have issues with their business, highest prices around, then they must spend a FORTUNE on these fancy display tanks. How much business do you really think they do through the shop compare to online? Considering they now only open Monday to Friday during standard working hours when most people are not able to visit and they are closed at weekends to give them more time to handle online orders suggests that their real money is made online and they now need to pick up their game to compete with companies like AE that sell plants which are just as good if not better for a lower price combined with service where they don't act like they are always right and the customer is wrong. They can't just trade on their old reputation for ever, they need to compete on price and service and at the moment they are lacking in both.



Completely different experience to mine, not that I'm a big buyer from them. It seems everybody here has had a bad experience with them so I must be the odd one out (or blessed with good fortune as I like to see it....) .

The closing at weekends is a bit strange, surely they would be better closing say Tuesday/Wednesday to cater for the online side of the business and let the rest of us working types visit at the weekend when we're off. Being from north Wales it's a convenient place to visit at the weekends if I need stuff and if I buy from them it's generally ADA stuff (which mostly can be had cheaper from Green Aqua or Aquasabi if I want mail order) like tanks. It was always nice to pop in and have a look at those tanks or have a mess around with bit's of stone and wood in their dirt box; which looks as if I won't be able to do again if they're not open when I'm off work

Maybe someone ought to point out this thread to James the famous aquascaper so he can see he needs to climb down off his perch and smell the roses as it were


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## Wisey

I also think the weekend idea is strange, but they said it was to help with online orders. Does not make much sense though as this is what they said:

_"We have changed the times for exactly the reason you mentioned. We want to improve the online shopping experience and make it as efficient as possible. 

We place our weekly plant orders on a Friday for delivery the following Tuesday (soon to become Mondays we hope)."_

If this is indeed the case and their order now arrives with them on Monday, your suggestion of closing earlier in the week, say Monday\Tuesday to get all the orders picked, packed and dispatched makes more sense. If they do not have the stock on Saturday and Sunday, what are they doing that makes the online order experience better? It could just be that they are using that time to ensure their paperwork is in order ready for the Monday?

My biggest gripe is the fact that when they make a mistake, rather than just hold their hands up and say sorry, which would make me far more chilled out, there is always an excuse, its not their fault, even when the excuse is they don't have enough staff to process the number of orders they receive which is clearly bad management on their part.

I only placed the second recent order with them as they seemed to be the only place I could get everything in one order and they offered to discount the shipping as compensation for the experience in November. I figured I would give them a second change, but I'll not be shopping with them again after I get my refund.

I can understand you going there if its local, I would love access to a decent source of hardscape where I could pick and chose what I wanted myself, I'm sure I would use them for hardscape if I lived in that area if nothing else.


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## Aqua360

an experience I had with greenmachine 4-5 months ago, was that I ordered a mother plant anubias barteri; I got calls though to let me know there was no barteri, and would I be happy with a coffifolia instead. I didn't mind, received my order in the next day or so; it was a decent sized plant, healthy.

Haven't ordered since just because of price and availability though, I got my recent plants from aquarium gardens; who were top notch on delivery and quality


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## castle

Sadly, their pricing is too high for me, I've had things in cart a lot, but local stores, and (gulp) ebay have provided well enough and saved me cash. Does look like they know what they're talking about though.


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## parotet

Hi all

I don't live in the UK and I have never visited TGM, but I know quite a few "ADA look" and ADA distributors shops. IMO this is a very difficult business, as they clearly rely on luxury items, at least to the eyes of most of the hobbyists. The shops I know in Spain like this have a quick turnover of fantastic and huge tanks, big shops with an aesthetic very far from classic LFS, less fish, etc... All this unavoidably entails higher costs and higher prices. In my town, most hobbyist use these shops for buying some exclusive items (for example ADA AquaSoil, only sold in one shop with ADA exclusive distribution) but of course most people rely on standard LFS to buy most of the supplies needed, which are much less expensive. Additionally the ADA look goods have been copied during the last years and now sold at very affordable prices. I myself can buy now glass lily pipes from Spanish brands which are exactly the same as ADA, Borneo Wild, etc. for a fraction of its original price. Co2 diffuser, enriched substrates, etc. are now produced by other brands, with very good results and also cheaper.

Jordi


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## Tim Harrison

Interesting business model
This isn't the first time TGM have been in the firing line http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-green-machine-a-bit-disappointed.33260/ 
On a more positive note, our sponsors are always being praised for their excellent customer service and products


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## Colinlp

What would be good is for another UK dealer to stock ADA to the same level as TGM. I appreciate there are other makes than ADA but they seem to be the driving force behind the shop


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## peter.k

Hi. 
I didn't tried bad-mouth TGM. I'm still new to this hobby. Have great experience with Aquariumplantfood/Co2art/Aquariumgardens but TGM is something new for me. I just got very surprised when i received other item ordered same day from australia and china (E-bay). And my order is still processing and nobody is responding on email. I thought  TGM is like top notch place.


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## tim

peter.k said:


> 10weeks? Hmm so I still have 8 weeks to go . Is there anybody else in UK, who is selling ADA aqua soil?


You could use tropica soil, tried and tested with great results by many members on here and readily available from various sponsors.


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## alto

peter.k said:


> I didn't tried bad-mouth TGM


This doesn't read as if you did - I've long admired TGM, it's an amazing shop ... I hope they read these sort of feedbacks & take note of what seems to be reasoned commentary

Like others I'm astounded at their decision to close weekends (it's my understanding that a good number of clients drive some distance to access TGM & this isn't likely to be an option weekdays), especially as they already have limited hours - aquarium shops in my area run an 11 - 7 workday to allow the average working person a chance at daily shop visits.
If pursuing the online shopping market, then they need to be on top of that game.


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## Colinlp

alto said:


> This doesn't read as if you did - I've long admired TGM, it's an amazing shop ... I hope they read these sort of feedbacks & take note of what seems to be reasoned commentary
> 
> Like others I'm astounded at their decision to close weekends (it's my understanding that a good number of clients drive some distance to access TGM & this isn't likely to be an option weekdays), especially as they already have limited hours - aquarium shops in my area run an 11 - 7 workday to allow the average working person a chance at daily shop visits.
> If pursuing the online shopping market, then they need to be on top of that game.



That is probably worth reading twice


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## Wisey

tim said:


> You could use tropica soil, tried and tested with great results by many members on here and readily available from various sponsors.


I bought the Tropica soil from AE for my new scape. The lack of ammonia was a plus for me over ADA as livestock was going straight back in on rescape day.


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## peter.k

I went for ADA, because I'm setting up tank for taiwan bee shrimps and i need active soil + I'll do rescape of my nano tank where i have colombo flora base turned in to mud after one year.


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## parotet

I agree with Tim, Tropica complete soil (the one that looks like AquaSoil) is a very good option. I have also used other brands such as HELP Advanced and Blau complete soils, and I cannot tell the difference with ADA AquaSoil (and I've used during the last years quite a few liters of AquaSoil). 

Jordi


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## alto

Not to talk you out of the ADA but shrimps do fine on Tropica soil as well 
If by "active" you mean CEC, most aquarium soils will do this, if you're looking for lowered pH, most aquarium soils will do this (re CEC)



peter.k said:


> rescape of my nano tank where i have colombo flora base turned in to mud after one year.


sympathies on this - very annoying when this happens


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## Chris Jackson

TGM's business model intrigues me as does their decision not to sponsor this forurm and now to close on weekends. My understanding is that they are the sole UK ADA importer/distributor and so it may just be that their wholesale side is really where they make their living or maybe high end commercial installations in hotel and businesses etc?
To me ADA is something of a high end boutique brand that appeals to wealthy people who just want what is or is percieved as being "the best" and aren't so concerned with cost. For these customers think beautiful gallery style showroom, comfy sofas, posh coffee, perhaps next door to a high end audio store...

If this is where TGM really make their income then having to deal with hoards of relatively low spending time intensive questioners at the weekends may be an unwelcome distraction!


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## parotet

Chris Jackson said:


> To me ADA is something of a high end boutique brand that appeals to wealthy people who just want what is or is percieved as being "the best"


This is also my guess and ADA was the first manufacturer to create a luxury shop line which did not exist in the hobby. But to be honest ADA was offering a few years ago really exclusive items: their soils, glassware, hang on thermometers... which unfortunately for these shop owners are not exclusive anymore. All this has been copied and rebranded with cheaper prices. In other words, standard fish shops are selling these items and additionally they keep on selling what a great majority of hobbyist normally buy.

The question is: is it competitive to be a luxury seller? It is of course, there is room for luxury in all the sectors. But as far as I have seen it needs to be supported by a very significant online business volume. Have a look at Spanish, Hungarian, French, German, etc. ADA exclusive sellers. They all have very good websites and I'm pretty sure that a big share of their benefits come from the internet business. If you fail also there, my guess is that things will get bad faster and faster.

Jordi


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## Chris Jackson

parotet said:


> Have a look at Spanish, Hungarian, French, German, etc. ADA exclusive sellers. They all have very good websites and I'm pretty sure that a big share of their benefits come from the internet business. If you fail also there, my guess is that things will get bad faster and faster.



Ineed, seems TGM really needs to re-invent itself or soon be history. ADA are going to need some highly innovative original new products soon as well for that matter


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## ian_m

My local Southampton Aquajardin sell ADA stuff, soil pipes & ferts. Tanks on order only. And in shop only.


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## parotet

Chris Jackson said:


> Ineed, seems TGM really needs to re-invent itself or soon be history. ADA are going to need some highly innovative original new products soon as well for that matter


Let's see their new Solar Series LED lamps that will be launched in a few weeks... this is going to be really tough for ADA sellers. It looks like the price is going to be really high and this item arrives a bit late IMO, when most of the brands are already selling high quality LED, with nice and slim designs and at prices that are becoming reasonable.

Jordi


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## Colinlp

Chris Jackson said:


> To me ADA is something of a high end boutique brand that appeals to wealthy people who just want what is or is percieved as being "the best" and aren't so concerned with cost.


To be fair to ADA they do make very good products and it's hard to knock the quality when compared to the cheaper copies (sometimes). Whether or not it justifies the cost I don't know but for some items I see them as worth the extra expense. Sometimes while things are comparatively a lot of money the still appeal to the like of me (basically skint) because of that little extra quality. That is a different argument though from the perceived customer service from their sales outlets. I doubt ADA see themselves as a "mail order" brand, if they were I doubt the likes of I would ever buy their goods, it's only through seeing them in the flesh that would convince me that some items are worth stretching the purse strings for.

I've not been in this hobby that long but in the short time I have it has had a change worldwide in it's appeal, from the seedy LFS image to the great heights TGM seemed to offer 4 or 5 years ago to, well see below.



Chris Jackson said:


> Ineed, seems TGM really needs to re-invent itself or soon be history. ADA are going to need some highly innovative original new products soon as well for that matter


I was looking at a video Pedro Rosa poster on the other (linked) TGM thread of a shop in Portugal (equally Green Aqua), don't know if you've seen it (/them)? Seems like Darwins theory in action when you compare the 2 one side solely aimed at elevating the customer experience, the other hiding from Dinosaurs

God that sounds snobby!


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## zozo

When i look at their prices you British people all must have a nice salary, even if i count €1 as a £1 tgm still is average 3 times what i pay at a dutch webshop for the same plant. And pound is euro + 30% at the time.


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> British people all must have a nice salary


...Just massive credit card bills and overdrafts


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## Andy D

Troi said:


> ...Just massive credit card bills and overdrafts



That sounds about right!


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## zozo

And i thought after a vacation there, the noorwegian where europes only Americanophiles.


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## alto

Chris Jackson said:


> To me ADA is something of a high end boutique brand that appeals to wealthy people who just want what is or is percieved as being "the best" and aren't so concerned with cost


Unfair!!! - location, location, location 
If I want an optiwhite tank, ADA is the most competitively priced glass box available - was rather shocked recently to see a non-ADA 30cm cube tank that was not finished near as nice as my ADA version retailing at 10% higher!  (& this is at a shop that offers very competitive pricing ... )

When I looked at lighting that same 30cm cube, Current USA (& others) don't offer LED units in that size range, the Hagen alternative was not attractive (nor all that economic), I'd really like the new Flexi-mini but it's not yet available (that I can find) in a US plug - so given my "want" of a low profile & non-black LED (who knew these were such unusual _wants_) - I ended up with the Aquasky

ADA cabinets & filters are way out of my budget  
Glass fittings - ADA & Do Aqua are available, anything else, either no one wants to ship or shipping is $$$ (I always pay insurance & it can still be the devil to actually collect on, so not the most efficient way to obtain fragile items)  I'm waiting on a stainless set that fits my budget (& wants) after currency exchange & shipping - eheim green really isn't all that bad  

Aquarium soils - if you think ADA is $$$, try costing out the Hagen equivalent 

Hardscape - it's all $$$ (again ADA versions come in at some very competitive pricing)

ADA came in & changed UP the local aquarium trade


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## Chris Jackson

Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of ADA products and trust them for quality... I even seriously considered a Powerfilter for awhile... Before ADA arrived all aquarium products tended to be plasticy and not very aesthetically well designed as many continue to be. ADA have raised the game... the Apple of aquatics perhaps


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## zozo

C'mon everybody is in Joint venture nowadays and only the low salary countries realy manufacture. They relative high salary countries only consume.  Were all becoming subjected to trademarks (some names still thriving on overdue succeses from the past) with managers, managing bulk productions and aiming to be pensionado at 45 of age.. At least that's the midlle class goal since decades.. Be there at 45 or else you can shake it and then if so still roam a little more not to get bored.

Buying ADA is probably buying high end quality control performed buy low salary employees.. And if the quality doesn't match the standards it is shiped off to a spinoff trademark for the common functionalist. (Never) Read beauty magazines (they only ake you feel ugly) and if you want to impress your neighbour you have to pay the price tag of perfectionism.


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## alto

ADA began with manufacturing in Germany & Japan, though I believe most product manufacture is now moved to China


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## Chris Parish

Hi - it seems that compared to the experience of some here with TGM, I've had very quick service from them. The ADA aqua soil I ordered came right away. But I really don't get this closing at the weekend idea?


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## sanj

I have personally not had bad service from TGM and I have used them a lot over the last 6 -7 years.

The focus does seem to be shifting more towards the online business, but a business does have to change to survive there is also a lot of good competition.


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## Colinlp

Well after saying how good an experience I'd always had, yeah you guessed it! I ordered last week but nothing heard, seems they lost my order but once I complained they managed to find it. When can I expect my delivery? Not this month, first week in April at best by the sound of it, not impressed. I think that will be my last order with them, better service can be had elsewhere


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## Wisey

Colinlp said:


> Well after saying how good an experience I'd always had, yeah you guessed it! I ordered last week but nothing heard, seems they lost my order but once I complained they managed to find it. When can I expect my delivery? Not this month, first week in April at best by the sound of it, not impressed. I think that will be my last order with them, better service can be had elsewhere



Sounds like you jinxed yourself! Sorry to hear about your order, its so frustrating, I know exactly how you feel.


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## peter.k

Colinlp said:


> seems they lost my order but once I complained they managed to find it.



Well i called and they couldn't find my order. After few minutes with sounds '' hmmmm aaaa hmmm ahmmm ... '' they find it and promised to dispatch it right away. 
just what on earth is happening in that place


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## darren636

Colinlp said:


> Well after saying how good an experience I'd always had, yeah you guessed it! I ordered last week but nothing heard, seems they lost my order but once I complained they managed to find it. When can I expect my delivery? Not this month, first week in April at best by the sound of it, not impressed. I think that will be my last order with them, better service can be had elsewhere



When it comes to plants, a better service and cheaper plants can be had elsewhere.


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## Colinlp

peter.k said:


> Well i called and they couldn't find my order. After few minutes with sounds '' hmmmm aaaa hmmm ahmmm ... '' they find it and promised to dispatch it right away.
> just what on earth is happening in that place


So how many times a week does this happen?


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## AndyMcD

It was TGM's website and their videos that really got me interested in aquascaping.

Their videos are their shop front and cannot be cheap to make. Based on their location, the majority of their clients must visit via the web rather than in person.

Having said that, I love visiting their store and will miss the opportunity to visit now they're closed at the weekends. I can't see me taking a day's holiday to visit. If they only opened one weekend in four.

The ADA gallery in Nigata doesn't appear to be open many days. There's probably little push from ADA to have long opening times.

If we only buy cheap books from Amazon, you can't complain if your local book shop closes. You can buy cheaper from purely on line sellers, but would the hobby be worse off without the value adding services that suppliers such as TGM provide. I think the hobby would be worse off if TGM disappeared.

With plant suppliers, unless they operate a just in time system from the plant growers (or supply culture plants), their holding tanks have to be sterile and have a fast turnover of stock, or you won't provide healthy plants and a good service, particularly to beginners. If you are an expert plant keeper, you may be able to bring plants on quickly in your store. However, if high CO2 is disguising algae issues, you'll only pass this on to the customer and the beginner can end up with an algae outbreak.

I can see why improving your ordering and supply system may help to run a leaner, just in time service, keeping stock to a minimum and helping to ensure you can supply healthy, algae free plants. Hope they have the back office systems to support this.

I've been very pleased with the other suppliers I've bought plants from most recently, but I'll continue to buy from TGM as I do not want them to disappear,


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## alto

AndyMcD said:


> TGM as I do not want them to disappear,


Agree! - it would be very sad to see them go, hope they sort something out re the weekend closures, maybe email & request they consider one Saturday a month 

My area has seen the loss of several aquarium shops in the last couple of years ... it's very difficult for a brick & mortar shop to compete with online shops


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## AndyMcD

I have emailed TGM and suggested they open one Saturday in four. With their website and emailed newsletter they should be able to publicise opening dates easily. I even suggested that they run a live demo or tutorial on their open days to make them more popular.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## peter.k

I have to say i ordered from them again and this time everything went smoothly.


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## AndyMcD

I have had an email back from TGM.

They have definitely taken the decision not to open at weekends, to focus on their online business, which is expanding.

They have a new video out, about how to maintain one of their aquariums, in preparation for a photo shoot.


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## Michal550

Thegreenmachine is closing.
https://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/blog/tgm-warehouse-shop-closing-aquascaping-book-coming-soon/


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## AndyMcD

Hi Michael550,

I think the showroom is closing, but they still going to be trading online.

Andy


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## Tim Harrison

The way I read it is the business is closing and James is retiring.


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## AndyMcD

Copied from TGM email. I took this to be that the physical shop is closing. However, not clear whether James is soon to launch a book. I took it to mean that they would provide an online store only, supported by videos.

*TGM Shop Closing, Aquascapign Book Coming Soon! *
It has been our pleasure providing a physical space for aquascaping goods and advice for the past 11 years since our beginning back in 2007. The Green Machine shop has been a real adventure for all involved but it's placement in North Wales has not been easy for all of our clients and fans to reach.

James Findley and our team have decided to close our physical shop which means we are running a huge sale for a limited time while we partially clear our warehouse. We won't be restocking products, so be quick if you want to avoid disappointment.

Moving forward, this will allow us to focus on providing aquascaping information and videos on our website and video channels which are enjoyed by millions of people around the world every day. You can look forward to new content published more frequently.

A word from James...

_"It is with mixed feelings that I have decided to close our shop in North Wales._

_My book containing my complete knowledge of the hobby will be published shortly and will be available both digitally and in hard copy._

_I am approaching 63 years of age and wish to spend more of my time with my wife, my family and my friends._

_May I take this opportunity to thank everybody for their loyal support over the past eleven years._

_Over the coming months The Green Machine will be offering some fantastic discounts with a view to clearing our warehouse, in particular our wide range of hardscape materials will be offered at 50% discount and other remarkable bargains will also be available._

_I will be signing the first 100 hardbacks._

_Once again thanks to everybody for your loyalty and belief in what we have done here at TGM."_

_James Findley_


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## Stu Worrall

im popping in this week so Ill ask them if anything is staying open.  They hold distribution for the UK through another company so if this closes as well ADA won't have a distributer.


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## LondonDragon

Stu Worrall said:


> ADA won't have a distributer.


Time for someone else to jump onboard


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## Stu Worrall

LondonDragon said:


> Time for someone else to jump onboard



I’m not sure that the distribution company is closing. It’s just the shop


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## Tim Harrison

Do you reckon the distribution company could survive without Greenmachine?
It appears to be the only real retail outlet. If not it could potentially be the end of ADA in the UK.


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## AnhBui

Has anyone ordered TGM book yet? Just made one. TGM was my first impression and inspiration with aquascaping


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## Tim Harrison

Can you share the link


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## zozo

AnhBui said:


> TGM was my first impression and inspiration with aquascaping



It was for me too, had been away from the indoor aqaurium for quit some time. Than i saw Findleys making of "Natures Chaos" and it lit a spark again.. After seeing "Tributary" a was convinced and a week later i started scaping myself a year later again MTS struk now i have 3 indoor planted aqauriums.

Pitty his idea with TGM didn't work out.. It was a good try never the less all tho it's e very difficult trade to keep your head above the water. Yet not enough aquascaping nerds around to make a living of it... At least not with such a drastic and masive undertaking behind it..


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## AnhBui

Tim Harrison said:


> Can you share the link



Here you go Tim

https://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/aquascaping-book/


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## zozo

AnhBui said:


> Here you go Tim
> 
> https://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/aquascaping-book/



Funny Natures Chaos is on the cover and Tributary the 2nd pic in the book.. I always thought these 2 were his best works ever.
I'm not alone it seems..


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## lucaz koh

Just preordered the pdf through and got an email from TGM saying they were in the process of setting up the PDF download when I ordered. I’ve managed to download it

Apparently I’m the first person to read the book ever!


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## Tim Harrison

Any good?


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## lucaz koh

Very nicely laid out. Looks very detailed after my brief flip look through. Looks like a few hours worth of reading


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## Stu Worrall

Well. That’s your lot for Ada in the uk until (if ever) a new distributor is found. It’s Europe only after Tgm sell out their last stocks 

http://www.adana.co.jp/en/release/detail?id=554


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## Tim Harrison

I guess that was somewhat inevitable...maybe we should form a syndicate and do it ourselves.


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## alto

Better than a situation where the distributor won't quit but also rarely does any (import) shipments 
(& for some reason ADA does nothing )

It's a shame to see TGM disappear (it was a lovely shop)




Tim Harrison said:


> maybe we should form a syndicate and do it ourselves.


Worth investigating at any rate (especially as you may know someone who knows someone  )


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## richard brown

It is a shame, James's video's were what made me start my first ever planted tank 3 years ago and the reason I found this great website.

Escarpment nature was my fave at the time because it was a lovely small tank.


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## PARAGUAY

Stu Worrall said:


> Well. That’s your lot for Ada in the uk until (if ever) a new distributor is found. It’s Europe only after Tgm sell out their last stocks
> 
> http://www.adana.co.jp/en/release/detail?id=554


I think sponser Aqua Essentials used to sell a limited ADA range but were stopped by TGM as their right as the main UK distributor. Maybe ADA need to relax there conditions a little.TGM also had Tropica so maybe its possible, be a shame as you say Stu if that a UK retailer cannot happen


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## Tim Harrison

I think quite a few UK retailers sold ADA products at one time...I also think the reason they don't could possibly have been more to do with the distributor's business strategy rather than anything else.

I could well be wrong, but I suspect the strategy was to control the supply chain and monopolise the market, probably by inflating prices to the point where retailers had little or no margin on the retail value of the products. And/or ADA set the price point too high in the first place. In which case James may have decided it'd be more efficient to use the business as a vehicle to promote his aquascaping career.

Either way the result is possibly the same - availability becomes limited, and in an emerging niche market there is always the risk that this will in turn throttle your own market place, especially when customer service isn't always on point, and when there are a growing number of similar products continually entering the market at a more competitive price point...and perhaps more importantly, are widely available.

If anyone is going to make a go of distributing ADA in the UK, I guess they'd need to get it out to as many retailers as possible and at the right price point. I suspect this will prove incredibly difficult, because the average UK hobbyist shopping in their LFS, or even in the Maidenhead Aquatics chain, isn't necessarily going to appreciate the wonders of optiwhite glass and the finer points of seamless silicone work, for instance. I get the feeling it would require an enormous amount of education and marketing...which equals an enormous investment in time and money.

It would be considerably easier if the price point of ADA products in this country matched those in Japan. I doubt ADA would consider that, for one thing they'd be worried about devaluing the brand. But if they did, any distributor would still probably have to import a vast amount to gain the economy of scale necessary to make it worthwhile, and that'd be a huge risk. Not least having a huge amount of capital locked up in product that potentially no one wants.


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## Barbara Turner

The advantage that ADA had when it came to quality has disappeared as competitors have got a lot better. 
If you look at the tanks NACD and Aqua Evolution are now making there are now minimal differences.  

The only way I can see to increase there market share would be to start importing the glass panels the same as evolution does and assemble them under license. 
This way you could bring shipping costs down to something reasonable, a 40ft container from Japan cost roughly $1200 you would get a lot more glass panels in it than you do tanks. 

To be fair James at green machine doesn't do himself any favours with his opening times.  
I've tried to visit a collection of times to buy tanks/rocks etc but he's never open when I'm not at work. 
He's closed every weekend and bank holidays. Wouldn't it make sense to take off Monday to Wednesday off every week. 

It doesn't give me much chance to impulse buy expensive rocks/hardscape and spend a fortune on ADA stuff.


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## geoffbark

I will miss this shop, i believe Jim and the Green Machine are exactly what this hobby/life requires. 
I too ordered his book, and after reading have found it to be a very well laid out unbiased reference guide. I would encourage begineers and experts alike to have a read. The detail in the photographs have captured the fine art of the planted aquasacpes perfectly.


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## Edvet

Should the title be changed to "thegreenmachineoffline"?


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## Seanogleby

Edvet said:


> Should the title be changed to "thegreenmachineoffline"?



Bad experience?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stu Worrall

Seanogleby said:


> Bad experience?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



They are closing the shop and business when it sells out of stock


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## AnhBui

Receive my copy today. Book looks great although it’s taking awhile for delivery. Totally worth for waiting


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## Iwagumi_Scaper

Where can I find the book? Is it on their website?


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## AnhBui

Iwagumi_Scaper said:


> Where can I find the book? Is it on their website?



Yes, you can make order directly on their website

Thegreenmachineonline.com


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## keano

Had mixed experience with TGM. I ordered a 90p a while ago and just so many delays and poor comms and gave up. Then recently in the closing down sale i grabbed a little ADA nano S and the tank is better quality than any online photo can ever do justice, it is simply gorgeosu. The order took abou t4 days and all arrived well packed and fair price. So second experience was a pleasant one. Its a sham eto see TGM go as there aren't many specialiased scaping suppliers in the UK.

I still want the 90P and / or a 60P but might have to settle for the EA aquascaper series..

Seen a few talking about a book? anyone have further info?


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## Seanogleby

keano said:


> Had mixed experience with TGM. I ordered a 90p a while ago and just so many delays and poor comms and gave up. Then recently in the closing down sale i grabbed a little ADA nano S and the tank is better quality than any online photo can ever do justice, it is simply gorgeosu. The order took abou t4 days and all arrived well packed and fair price. So second experience was a pleasant one. Its a sham eto see TGM go as there aren't many specialiased scaping suppliers in the UK.
> 
> I still want the 90P and / or a 60P but might have to settle for the EA aquascaper series..
> 
> Seen a few talking about a book? anyone have further info?



My experience with them wasn't great! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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