# Holiday Disaster: 200+ Litres on Floor



## Coys (16 Sep 2018)

Overseas on holiday. Sister-in-law checks house after three days to find about 75mm of water in tank and the other 200+ litres on the lounge carpet. Autofeeder has been dumping food on the now exposed plants for at least a couple of days. The filter (an Eheim 2173) has been running dry as has an Eheim power head for the same time. The heater is a Hydor external in the filter line so no heat either. Presumably CO2 has been happily discharging into the air...

One of my sons and my brother went to the house today to attempt a rescue operation. Found and fixed the leak; the plastic CO2Art diffuser case had snapped (more of that later). Refilled the tank with treated tap water rather than the usual RO, heated slightly by boiling kettles. Restarted the filter and it miraculously worked as did the heater.

Amazingly at least most of the fish survived; a couple of large Congos, a shoal of Neons, five Bentosi tetras and three Bristlenoses definitely OK. The seven Rummynoses may have gone though or may have just been hiding.

This thread could have equally been in the general or CO2 thread, but my main question for now is: what is the chance of the filter bacteria surviving 1-3 days in static water?

As for the diffuser I'll post a question in the CO2 thread.


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## Edvet (16 Sep 2018)

Bacteria in the filter will be dead mostly, but in a planted tank  just do large waterchanges every day for a week. Biggest problem is always the effluent from the dead filter. If you remove that the rest will restore , there will be a lot of live bacteria in the substrate an on the plants to restore the situation.


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## PARAGUAY (16 Sep 2018)

Thats  what I am thinking, I did some filterclean on a internal and forgot to plug back on and days later discovered my mistake,everything was fine plants,gravel ,wood rock must have held bacteria


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## Keith GH (17 Sep 2018)

Coys

I have had a disaster leaking tank and plenty of water on floor, damaged furniture as well, thank goodness for home insurance and being glass breakage all covered by insurance.

Keith


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## SDIESEL77 (17 Sep 2018)

That actually scares me a lot!  I just ordered an inline CO2 diffuser (not the same brand) and hope that will never happen to me.
Is there a possibility to have an anti return valve (for ex 16mm) straight after the inline diffuser in order to stop the flow if the diffuser case break?


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## ian_m (17 Sep 2018)

SDIESEL77 said:


> Is there a possibility to have an anti return valve (for ex 16mm) straight after the inline diffuser in order to stop the flow if the diffuser case break?


That won't work, as the water will simple syphon through the filter and out onto the floor before the anti-return valve. Also nobody has really made a reliable anti-return valve that works with "dirty water".

This is the only case I have ever heard of, of a CO2 diffuser breaking, when not due to user error whilst installing/maintaining.


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## SDIESEL77 (17 Sep 2018)

ian_m said:


> That won't work, as the water will simple syphon through the filter and out onto the floor before the anti-return valve. Also nobody has really made a reliable anti-return valve that works with "dirty water".


Not sure what you mean? If the inline CO2 diffuser is put on the return pipe and then the anti return valve further on it. If the anti return valve is working, the worst that could happen is a bit of water could come from the outflow pipe but then once the water will reach the bottom of the outflow pipe, the leak will stop. So it shouldn't be too much as the outflow pipe are generally high up in the tank.
I just saw this one, not sure if it will work and if it wouldn't reduce the flow too much
https://www.aquariumplumbing.co.uk/buy-aquariumplumbing.asp?ID=167&ProdGrp=194



ian_m said:


> This is the only case I have ever heard of, of a CO2 diffuser breaking, when not due to user error whilst installing/maintaining.


Few weeks ago, before ordering my inline CO2 diffuser, I was looking for online reviews on different models and found quite a lot of complains on some models having the case cracking.
ex: https://www.amazon.com/U-P-Aqua-Inl...36578111&sr=8-4-fkmr1&keywords=inline+co2+jbl


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## ian_m (17 Sep 2018)

SDIESEL77 said:


> If the inline CO2 diffuser is put on the return pipe and then the anti return valve further on it. If the anti return valve is working, the worst that could happen is a bit of water could come from the outflow pipe but then once the water will reach the bottom of the outflow pipe, the leak will stop. So it shouldn't be too much as the outflow pipe are generally high up in the tank.


Surely the filter will just keep on pumping, until its inlet, low in the tank (eg 75mm as in your case) is exposed. This will happen regardless of any one way valves fitted to the system. Even turning the filter off, after detecting a leak won't help as the water will simply syphon out of the tank via the filter, again until the inlet is exposed.

I wouldn't put a non return valve in the filter flow (why, can't see any reason, never seen one used before), it will certainly reduce flow significantly and be prone to failure when needed. There is a recent thread where somebodies sump return valve jammed and flooded the room after a power cut.

Those reviews of the UP diffusers look bad. My diffuser is an UP brand from 2012, something must have changed since then.


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## SDIESEL77 (17 Sep 2018)

ian_m said:


> Surely the filter will just keep on pumping, until its inlet, low in the tank (eg 75mm as in your case) is exposed. This will happen regardless of any one way valves fitted to the system. Even turning the filter off, after detecting a leak won't help as the water will simply syphon out of the tank via the filter, again until the inlet is exposed..



Arrrgh, you're actually completely correct! I didn't think about this 

What about a leak sensor switching off the pump as soon as it detect water?
Such as this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-x-Wire...219872?hash=item36333315a0:g:3u8AAOSw8SpbDmFc


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## ian_m (17 Sep 2018)

SDIESEL77 said:


> What about a leak sensor switching off the pump as soon as it detect water?


No good, as the water will simply syphon through the now turned off filter. Any "outlet", "crack", "opening" to the air, in tubing/fixings below tank surface level, will always let water flow.

You could, if really worried, put the whole diffuser in a water filter cartridge housing, though you will have the issue of getting the 4/6mm CO2 tubing into the housing and making that water tight. Water comes in and out the housing at the top. Many people have done this type thing, also putting tubes/baffles/bio balls in the housing to make it a CO2 reactor as well. Just watch you don't block the flow too much or even at all.


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## sparkyweasel (17 Sep 2018)

You would need your leak detector to operate shut-off valves in your tubing as well as switching your pump off.


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## ian_m (17 Sep 2018)

sparkyweasel said:


> You would need your leak detector to operate shut-off valves in your tubing as well as switching your pump off.


I think at that point it is getting far too complicated and liable to have some other "room flooding" failure method. What about a water leak and a power failure ?

Most people just have continuous runs of pipe from tank inlets/outlets to filter. Obviously, as we know inserting devices into these pipe runs lowers reliability.

Sounds like the CO2 is attacking the plastic (which it does to a lot of common plastics) and causing it to crack. My cheap Chinese bubble counter, all the plastic crazed and leaked. Similar with cheap one way CO2 valves.

I think the solution, in long term, is a better quality CO2 diffuser.

JBL is a respected German make. Thread below on JBL diffuser.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/jbl-in-line-diffusor.53975/

Quanvee make a diffuser, has metal parts.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/qanvee-m1-out-tank-co2-atomizer.50453/


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## Coys (17 Sep 2018)

Many thanks for all of the replies. 

As most of you have said, there is no (known or practical) way to stop the water flow once a leak has started in the flow line, apart from having the inlet pipe starting much closer to the top of the aquarium rather than at the bottom as is usually the case; mine is about 25mm from the bottom of the gravel at the back, maybe 75mm at the front. 



ian_m said:


> This is the only case I have ever heard of, of a CO2 diffuser breaking, when not due to user error whilst installing/maintaining.



Well I suppose that the manufacturer/retailer could say that this was a user error whilst installing/maintaining. They could say that it was probably over tightened or something, although I would have expected it to shear off or start leaking from cracks then rather than a couple of week later. Maybe it is not intended to be opened for cleaning, although I would say that they probably shouldn't sell new ceramic diffusers for it then. I would also add that a lot of surface cracks appeared in the clear plastic casing of the original one I received and that one was replaced under warranty.

I will not use this model again and will consider a JBL and Quanvee as a replacement.

I'll give the filter media a rinse when I get home in a couple of days as suggested by _Edvet_, above. And some big water changes. Luckily I have just taken delivery of another four 25 litre jerrycans (so now eight) and I have my own RO system.

Leak alarm? External filters have such high flow rates that most aquariums would be empty before their owner responded. Even at half of its rated throughput mine would have been empty in 15-30 mins.

On the upside I do have good contents insurance so I'm not worried about that, apart from the upheaval if the carpet has to come up. I doubt that any furniture has been damaged, so it could be just the carpet and that may be recoverable with a good commercial cleaner that will suck the water out.

Oh and the new water is still in there after 24 hours, fish are swimming around and at least three of the seven Rummynose tetras have survived.


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## Fiske (17 Sep 2018)

Here's my €0.02 on UP atomizers: Never again. Longer version: 


Fiske said:


> After cleaning my filter tubes I noticed my UP inline atomizer was leaky. Have pulled it out and am going to superglue it together





Fiske said:


> PTFE on the UP unit didn't help; if anything it made matters worse. Then I tried cyanoacrylate, and nearly glued the damn thing to my hand





Fiske said:


> - Secured (hopefully) my current level of CO2, by glueing my UP atomizer, thus securing I'll have to get a new one, as it cannot be disassembled. At least my CO2 should go into the tank.





Fiske said:


> - I noticed that the not-glued end of the atomizer was leaky (sigh), after trying to tighten it _in situ_ (it was PTFE taped, to no avail) I noticed the unit had several cracks... After reading horror stories about the entire body falling apart, dumping aquariums onto floors; I decided enough was enough and spent that particular day off driving to the LFS, and getting a JBL Proflora, and installing it promptly. This means that the ceramics wasn't soaked for 24-48 hours per instructions, so bubbles seem fairly large. Placed on the inlet, hopefully the filter acts as an intermediate reactor, and aside from occasional burps seem to work. The entire housing gets flooded on CO2 off, so hopefully it will get better. Back to tuning CO2 I guess (more sighs). Have ordered chinese Qanvee (now called something else), from chinese site, arriving with chinese mail sometime around chinese newyear, I guess. To bad about UP, I liked how well it diffused; but the build quality was (is?) way too risky for something placed inline below aquarium bottom. I'm amazed they are so popular; is it because of lack of similar products, or was I extremely unlucky? Not sure I'd ever risk finding out...



I never really got happy with the JBL, I know others are; the Qanvee seems good and very sturdy, I have however only used it with CO2 for a couple of months, so can't speak for longevity; although it is still in place on the filter line I ran out of CO2 more than 6 months ago


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## SDIESEL77 (17 Sep 2018)

ian_m said:


> Quanvee make a diffuser, has metal parts.
> https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/qanvee-m1-out-tank-co2-atomizer.50453/



I should received my Quanvee M2 this week hopefully


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## Coys (21 Sep 2018)

An update: Returned on Wednesday afternoon. No major issues apart from a wet, slightly smelly carpet. I could only find one dead Rummynose and the rest of the fish seem OK, including 20 Neons, the two Congos, five Bentosis and some copper tetras. Filter and in-line heater OK, but haven't tested the power head yet. Carpet cleaner in yesterday (luckily he lives next door) and he did an excellent job and loaned us a carpet drier for a few days.

Did a water test and 100 litre RO water changer this morning. Pre-change the water was Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 20. Is that a good sign re bacteria? How soon would I expect a spike in ammonia and/or nitrite if the bacteria was all dead?


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## Coys (21 Sep 2018)

And the power head works! 

I'm really impressed that both of my Eheim products are working perfectly after running dry for 2+ days.


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## Edvet (21 Sep 2018)

Eheim


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## Barbara Turner (21 Sep 2018)

I had similar, my tank split a seam and I lost the contents all over the floor..
I was surprised as I didn't see an ammonia spike afterward, there must be enough bacteria everywhere else.

My eihiem filter although it initially started to work. It died a couple of weeks later.  fingers crossed yours will do better than mine.
Instead of replacing it completely I'm now running a separate Jebao pump.

I'm using a  Quanvee M2 co2 diffuser. It's been petty good so far. Only thing I did notice is that you need a separate bubble counter.

PS the smelly carpet takes a while to stop smelling.. even with a wet vaccuum and 2 dehumidifiers


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## Coys (21 Sep 2018)

Barbara Turner said:


> I had similar, my tank split a seam and I lost the contents all over the floor..
> I was surprised as I didn't see an ammonia spike afterward, there must be enough bacteria everywhere else.
> 
> My eihiem filter although it initially started to work. It died a couple of weeks later.  fingers crossed yours will do better than mine.
> ...



That's a pity about your Eheim; I'm not so optimistic now...

The Up atomiser required a separate bubble counter anyway, so that's no surpise. I just received an email to say that my M2 has been shipped from China; hopefully it will arrive sooner that I thought.

I hope the carpet (and Persian rug that was on top it it and also got wet) don't smell like a wet dog for too long. I suspect that it's the underlay that can retain water longer and generates the lingering smell. We'll see.


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## tiger15 (21 Sep 2018)

Whoever ownes a canister filter has to be extra careful because it has external plumbing, more so if it is plumbed into a co2 diffuser/reactor, because if any part leaks or comes off, it can drain the tank.  The OP accident is no accident as I’ve heard it way too many times.  

I run 6 fish tanks from 20 to 120 gal and have never want to own  a canister for fear of flooding.  All my tanks are filtered by HOBs which have no external plumbing and thereby no vulnerability for flooding.  When I started my first planted tank a year and half ago, I was surprised that nearly all planted tank aquarists favor canister to drive CO2 reactor.  I’m not comfortable with any canister in light that my planted tank is in my living room.   I searched real hard to find only one vendor, Tunze,  that makes co2 reactor I like as it is driven by an internal power head free of external plumbing.


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## alto (21 Sep 2018)

tiger15 said:


> All my tanks are filtered by HOBs which have no external plumbing and thereby no vulnerability for flooding.


I’ve known several cases of water damage from HOBs - maybe it’s just the odd filter (had one myself, definitely no blockage or inappropriate media - everything set up to manufacturer directions with OEM media & parts ... would return home to find it happily tricking over with decidedly damp floor & cabinet ...)

While a HOB filter cannot actually drain a tank, that slow leak can easily blow out the pressboard cabinets/stands often sold for aquarium setups or mould carpet underlay


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## tiger15 (22 Sep 2018)

HOB can spill but extremely rare and won’t drain the tank.

One time I placed  an undersized HOB on  a big tank and it did not fit and sat 1/2 inch above the rim.  Worked fine for a few months until one day I found water on the floor due to tilting of the box spilling water onto the rim and dripped over to the floor.

The Aquaclear style HOBs can drip water due to popped up foam tilting sideway.  It also has an O ring in the motor housing you have to unscrew to clean the impeller and over time will fail and leak.

HOB is just a box hang on the back with no external plumbing.  In comparison, canister filters have O ring, clamps, and external hoses all vulnerable to leak, failure or come off by accident. If you add an in-line reactor, you just add more weak links.


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## Barbara Turner (23 Sep 2018)

My ehiem was already old.. it deffinetly was low on flow after the accident, it gradually got worse till it just made a ticking noise with no flow. 



Coys said:


> That's a pity about your Eheim; I'm not so optimistic now...



The wet dog smell will go away eventually..


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