# Help please, Algae and lack of growth



## Chrispowell (18 Apr 2014)

Hi all,

Firstly, Hi im new here. Secondly please go easy on me - everyday is a school day.

I am getting green spot algae on the glass and most leaves and my plants are growing very slowly.

I would like some advice and possible answers as to where Im currently going wrong.. I have a tropical Discus tank. 4ftx2tfx2ft. 
I have *sand substrate
Pressurised co2 ( approx 2 bps)
4 t5 39" lights* ( currently only running two) running for 8 hours a day
A* dark green drop checker
EI ferts* that I dose according to the bottle, 10ml per 50L on alternate days.
I currently change 85% of water weekly (want to up this to 85% every other day but not sure how to dose the ferts)
Tank temp is *29degrees

I will get pictures at lights on in an hour or so. If anyone can help point me in a better direction I would be very keen to listen.*

Thanks

Chris


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## Lindy (18 Apr 2014)

I think you'd have to either go down to one bulb and accept slow growth or increase co2 to stop algae and get faster growth.


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## Edvet (18 Apr 2014)

please give us a pic so we can see how it looks.
29 degrees is high, you keep discus?
Do a big waterchange every other day, do 10 ml after each change\
Dark green checker would not be good, but it has to do with the KH of the fluid in there, do you have a pH probe or pen? That would work better


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## Chrispowell (18 Apr 2014)

Hi, 

Thanks for the replys. I have a PH and KH test kit, and a tds meter. Yes its a Discus tank so is kept at 28degrees.

Will get some pictures now [DOUBLEPOST=1397839082][/DOUBLEPOST]http://i62.tinypic.com/fwsnd1.jpg

Its hard for me to get a decent picture but this is what most leaves go like...

http://i59.tinypic.com/20qnlhj.jpg

These plants have been in the tank for at least 2 months... 

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ccroko.jpg

I have to scrub the glass once a week and get this green and a faint brown algae off of it...

http://i61.tinypic.com/sm5ydu.jpg

Thanks for any help


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## Victor (18 Apr 2014)

I think is too much fish for this tank size. Maybe they are producing too much ammonia and causing algae. However, green spot algae is more related to low phosphate levels. Make sure you're adding enough CO2 and keep doing large amounts of water changes. Oh, I agree with Idcgroomer, you could decrease your lighting even more to help to control the algae.


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## foxfish (18 Apr 2014)

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.
You have to much light for the amount of C02 available, the easy way is to knock off two tubes.
You fish might thank you too.


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## Chrispowell (18 Apr 2014)

Thanks everyone, I have some liquid co2, should I add this too to get the drop checker into the lime greens??? 

I dont think the fish waste is a problem, the tank is really over filtered and never shows a trace of ammonia, should I change my EI routine to up the phosphate levels and If so how??

Many Thanks

Chris


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## Andy Thurston (18 Apr 2014)

Liquid carbon wont change the dropchecker but you could add it and see if the plants improve


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## Alastair (18 Apr 2014)

Hi chris 

Id increase your co2 as 2bps on a tank that size seems relatively low.  

How long before lights on does your co2 come on. 
Also instead of one such huge water change why not split it to twice a week 50 percent changes. 85 in one day seems a lot. 
Regarding upping your pottassium phosphate just add an extra half spoon to your mix and see if that prevents more appearing. It wont rid the tank of what's already their. That requires manual removal. 

There's a good article on tropicas site about discus and co2 tanks. They do water changes one a fortnight too I think. 

http://www.tropica.com/en/tropica-abc/the-right-fish/discus-aquaria.aspx


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

Thanks again everyone. I do grow Discus on in my main tank so like to change as much water as possible everyday to help stop them stunting. 

Here are the two bulbs I currently have running...




 

I currently have co2 on around an hour and a half before lights on. Turning off one hour before lights go out. Is this good enough or shall I go for sooner?

Keep the suggestions coming Im learning loads!!

Thanks


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## Victor (19 Apr 2014)

Chrispowell said:


> I currently have co2 on around an hour and a half before lights on. Turning off one hour before lights go out. Is this good enough or shall I go for sooner?
> Keep the suggestions coming Im learning loads!!


 Here I keep CO2 running 6 hours before the light on and I turning it off 2 hours before the lights off.


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

Thanks I will adjust my timings. 

I have found another issue today. I think it is caused by a leak in the system but not 100% maybe someone can clear it up for me...

I set my co2 bottle (brand new last week) to 50psi. Then once I open the needle valve the pressure on the bottle gauge slowly drops to around 20psi???? 

Im using a brass bubble counter and have checked with soapy water for leaks there and all looks good. Could this drop in pressure stop my inline diffuser working, and If so does this sound like a leak somewhere???

Thanks again


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## Andy Thurston (19 Apr 2014)

What reg and how big is your bottle


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

This is my

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/tmc-v2-pressure-regulator-pro-with-solenoid-din477-p-3702.html

and I have a 6kg pub bottle of co2.


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## Andy Thurston (19 Apr 2014)

I set mine at 50psi and it stays at 50 psi even if i open the needle valve fully with no tubing connected. aquatic regs are so hit 'n' miss quality wise it would be hard to tell. It shouldnt do that even with a leak. Cheaper regs do drop a little when you open the valve but it shouldnt drop 30psi. My cheapy aquatic reg drops only drops about 5 psi with needle valve fully open and no tubing connected. You might have a leak but i would say the regs faulty too. How long have you had it? It hasn't been dropped or knocked has it?


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

I have had it about a year now, I dont recall dropping or knocking it but I cannot say 100%. I cant really afford to replace it at £90 is there a cheaper way to do it?

Thanks


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

Just incase Im making a massive mistake and doing something wrong... heres a quick video


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## Andy Thurston (19 Apr 2014)

Are you opening the cylinder fully?  If you are then i'd suspect the cylinder hasn't been fully filled or the contents gauge is faulty. it does look like the contents gauge has been damaged because on your video the scale doesn't look central to the case but the service gauge does.
As long as the gauge isn't leaking the reg will probably function fine except you will not know that its about to run out which could be a big problem for you if it runs out and you don't notice


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

Silly I know but I wasnt sure if the 'open' 'close' on the cylinder has a stop or I would wind it open to a point where the thing shot off through the wall?!

So to claify.. Its 100% safe to open the cylinder until it wont twist any more? and same with the pressure?

Sorry for the silly questions!! 

Really appreciate the help!


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## X3NiTH (19 Apr 2014)

I had a similar problem. When you open the cylinder valve and the pressure on the gauge goes to 50, you're expecting to get 50 when you open the needle valve but it drops to 20. 50 is the available pressure but 20 is the operating pressure you're getting, from experience this is due to the pressure tap on the regulator (not bottle tap) not being open enough. Adjust the regulator tap while the needle valve is open and the operating pressure in the gauge will either climb or fall depending on which way you dial it. Be very carefull if you unscrew the tap too much it will come off in you're hand, its spring loaded against the diaphragm inside (if its anything like my co2art dual gauge single stage).


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

I think its a good idea IF i turn the gas off and disconnect the gauge and have a play and get to know how it works abit more...

Im scared everything I adjust will end In the regulator ending up in next doors living room!!


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## Andy Thurston (19 Apr 2014)

Yes its safe but you shouldn't really need to, the valve will be fully open at half a turn. It means you can close them quickly in an emergency. I'm just trying to eliminate all possibilities. Sometimes if you open a full cylinder too quickly it can damage the gauge but it usually just makes the needle move out of its correct position not go lower when you start using the gas the service gauge looks to be working fine though. And yes sometimes you do have to add a little more to the service pressure than what you need but its the contents gauge thats being a silly bugger not the service guage


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## X3NiTH (19 Apr 2014)

On mine an anti-clockwise turn will unscrew (I've labeled mine so I don't forget) up and out from the regulator body, the diaphragm spring is very beefy and has quite a bit of tension in it. I traced my regulator problem to the actual regulator adapter not being screwed in properly (not a part that I had to assemble since I added my sodastream adapter to this stem) which undid itself in my hand sending a cloud of gas into the kitchen very suddenly. After fixing this I then discovered that the regulator tap operating pressure was adjustable via the regulator tap (I assumed this was not adjustable, but it is, only downwards from the gauge pressure).

Yeah familiarisation with equipment helps eliminate sneaky surprises!


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

So just turn the cylinder off, had a play and put back together and the bottle pressure still sinks down to around 25psi when I open the needle valve.

I can turn the regulator pressure up but it still sinks back to around 25psi..

Its a real pain as it mucks up my bubble count every day when the power comes back on.. I just want to make sure its the gauge before paying £50 for a new one..

Thanks for the help so far!


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## X3NiTH (19 Apr 2014)

You've got a leak somewhere. Your bottle pressure is not what you're seeing drop its the regulator pressure due to a leak somewhere. My leak turned out to be from the regulator stem, what I was seeing was any increase in bubble adjustment beyond 1 or 2 per second would initially see an increase in rate that dropped quickly back to 1 or 2 a second a few moments later. I had play in my regulator stem and it undid itself in my hand when I went to check my adapter connection was tight enough (the adapter connection i fitted was fine, but unfortunately in an effort to tighten the bloody regulator stem properly after just about gassing everyone with half the soda stream bottle contents, I damaged my operating pressure gauge so it only reads half what it should, but I still get working pressure). 

After all this I belts and braced it and used PTFE Gas Tape on all the hose connection threads (i also discovered not to put gas tape on the soda stream adapter bottle threads, it'll leak). I can now adjust anywhere between 0 and uncountable bubbles per second. My gauge is stuffed but I know it's working to the pressure that my inline diffuser needs because I'm getting a 1 degree ph drop in less than hour of gas on (i can go faster but the fish don't like it), I couldn't do this before I fixed the leak as it would take all day to get the drop checker green.


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## Chrispowell (19 Apr 2014)

Okay thanks alot!

Did you discover the leak through spraying the regulator with soapy water?? I will try this in the morning and try to find a leak.


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## X3NiTH (20 Apr 2014)

No I discovered it when it came apart in my hands. I had moved all my kit from one side of the room to the other and placed it in a unit below the tank, it was being tempremental before the move but only intermittently (I put it down to my inexperience), the stem must have been incorrectly tightened beforehand creating an intermittent gas tight seal, the stem must have worked itself loose further during the move (the stem to the regulator always had play in it and I had assumed it had been correctly assembled before it came to me since it was the only thing I didn't have to assemble) and when I lifted the unit to check the tightness of the bottle connection there was a massive continuous release of gas from the stem over my hand and I had to scramble to disconnect the soda stream bottle from the regulator. I disassembled everything and gas taped all the threads and when i went to re-tighten the stem to the regulator (which required a lot of effort) i didnt realise the force i was using bent the operating gauge housing into the dial ruining it. I had done the soap bubble check at the beginning and all appeared fine, with hindsight it was obviously only just gas tight and one turn of the stem was enough to release the bottle contents. 

The problems I was having with the inline were all down to a leak in the system, that's what all the advice on this forum and others pointed to, this made me check and I discovered the cause of my problem. Luckily it de-gassed whilst I was there and only from a soda stream bottle and not a pub cylinder!


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## Chrispowell (20 Apr 2014)

Right im tearing my hair ( the little I have left) out now. 

Took the time this morning to test my system properly. I got my cylinder and tested every joint was tight - which it was. Next I used a spray bottle and some soapy water to go around everything and again no bubbles...

Next I tested along the line to the next joint (bubble counter) before finally coming to my inline diffuser. 



and heres the inline 



Finally I wondered If the gas could be leaking where my external filter pipe joins onto the spray bar connection? ( this join sits above the water line?)

Im running out of ideas really :-/


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## X3NiTH (20 Apr 2014)

I checked my inline was working by connecting it to an airbrush compressor and pushed air through it (operating pressure is adjustable on my eBay compressor and I was getting mist at 15psi so I didn't have a blocked atomiser). If you can adjust the bubble rate precisely then maybe your inline is only able to pass the co2 at 20psi in its current configuration (blocked), if you can't adjust the bubble rate precisely then it still seems to point to a leak, that's the behaviour I saw with mine. Yeah I was pulling my hair out too.


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## Chrispowell (20 Apr 2014)

Thanks for the continued help. Fingers crossed Im working towards a solution..

So tonight I decided to disconnect the inline diffuser and run it directly into the tank. Bypass the bubble counter and see what we had.

As expected the diffuser is not blocked. However 10mins after turning my needle valve as tight as I could to turn it off and doing the same with the pressure valve I can still see bubbles coming through as shown in my video...



I still cant get an operating pressure over 25psi either.. Is this looking more and more like a dodgy regulator??


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## GHNelson (20 Apr 2014)

You will get bubbles as the chamber fills with water and expels the Co2.
hoggie


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## foxfish (20 Apr 2014)

They are high pressure devices and require a min of 2 bar (30psi) but more like 3-4 bar to work well.


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## X3NiTH (20 Apr 2014)

One of the things that I also did once I gas taped everything together was to run the system to get bubbles in the counter, then I turned the gas full off by turning the regulator tap (I'm on a sodastream and have no bottle tap to adjust so full bottle pressure goes straight into the regulator) watching the bubble count decrease confirmed I was turning the regulator to the close position. Once the regulator tap was fully closed and no gas was passing through the counter I then opened my needle valve to the full position and noted that the gas remained off. I then very carefully opened the tap on the regulator and noted gas starting to flow bubble by bubble, I continued to open the flow until I got an uncountable bubble stream then stopped. I then turned the needle valve towards the closed position and noted the decrease in rate, but with slightly finer control than before.

My bent/unbent gauge only reads 20psi, something bent inside prevents the needle from going higher but I still get working pressure.

If you can get an adjustable cloud of mist out the inline by sticking it in the tank and and the gauge only reads 25 I would be inclined to think maybe the gauge is faulty. If you forgo the inline and put the co2 gas line in the tank and you still can't get an adjustable bubble rate then I would assume the regulator is broken or at the least a fault anywhere between the regulator and the needle valve and before the hose.

When I had a pressure leak the chain of events that I saw were - Needle Valve Open, Solenoid Open, Gas Flowed, Rapid Bubbles, Decreasing Bubble Rate, Settled at 1BPS, Needle Valve Adjustment No Effect on Bubble Rate Adjusting Toward Fully Open, Closed Needle Valve No Gas Flow, Opened Needle Valve Full, Rapid Bubbles Initially Decreasing to 1BPS........ad nauseum

I don't know what a blocked regulator/needle valve symptoms would be sorry, I can only described what I experienced. But systematic checking of every connection led me to discover my problem, and I gas taped all hose threads to ensure no leaks.


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