# EI dosing - PO4 salt don't show any trace of PO4



## ManDrawer (20 Aug 2017)

*TLDR version*
After a year of struggling with Plant Deficiencies while using IE starter kit , I tested my Macros with 5 tsp of Potassium Phosphate PO4 and found out there are no traces of PO4 in it..
Tested with JBL PO4 sensitive test kit, it works fine when I add Easy-Life Fosfo and it gives exact readings. After testing 1tsp PO4 salts with 20ml white vinegar it still gives no readings of PO4.

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Hi,

I want to share my story with you and wonder what might be happening in my case.

Last year I purchased a starter EI kit with the following salts,
Potassium Nitrate KNO3
Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4
Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4
Chelated Trace Elements

I have been struggling for over a year with EI and Plant Deficiencies, curling leaves, GSA, GDA, yellow pin holes in leaves, you name it I have had most of it.
I thought why is this so hard while other people have so much success, and I must be doing something wrong.

At one point I went for advise to my local fish shop for advise and was told to bring a sample of my Aquarium water.
After testing 0 trace of PO4 and very high KNO3. I thought that this was strange as was dosing Macros and Micros as advised and it should contain PO4.
I didn't think much of it and thought my plants must be hungry for PO4 so I bought an extra 250ml Easy-Life Fosfo.

I never looked too much in to it anymore and gave up on my big aquarium and started over with a smaller one with all the bells and whistles, Kessil light, ADA Aquasoil Amazonia, proper CO2 setup.
Plants are doing better but still not great, I still have issues with DSA and GDA, and I try to keep my PO4 and KNO3 on a 10:1 ratio I find having to add at least 10ml Fosfo to get to around 1ppm PO4.
This is strange as I keep adding Macro's as well.

My Macro soulution currently contains,
- 500ml water
- 5tsp Potassium Phosphate PO4
-  6tsp Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4
So very strange that I have to add almost 100% of Liquid PO4 every week.

Today I got a bright idea.... (why didn't I think of this before..) lets test my Macro for PO4 with my JBL PO4 test kit, surprise surprise 0 traces of PO4..
The test kit works very accurate as it shows a perfect amount as in the description when I add Fosfo in my aquarium water.

So I either have a mislabelled PO4 pack or my salts are broken and I'm wondering if any salts including the micros are actually providing any nutrients.
Has anyone experienced something similar, or am I missing something? I also lowered my light significantly as I can't keep up with nutrients.
As soon as I get a reply and new salts I will test them straight away, not sure yet how to test trace element's though.

I emailed the shop I purchased the pack from, still awaiting an answer.
I obviously won't name them.

Aquarium  specs:
Eheim Aquastar 54 Litre 60cm x 30cm x 30cm (w x h x d)
Filter, Fluval 406 Canister
CO2 system, Pro Aquarium CO2 System With Adjustable Pressure For Aquarium 50L - 500L
Light, Kessil A160WE Tuna Sun: max 40% max Intensity 20% Colour 10 hour period. (HC Cuba)


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## dw1305 (20 Aug 2017)

Hi all, 





ManDrawer said:


> lets test my Macro for PO4 with my JBL PO4 test kit, surprise surprise 0 traces of PO4..
> The test kit works very accurate as it shows a perfect amount as in the description when I add Fosfo in my aquarium water.


If you have <"hard water"> the PO4--- ions will rapidly go out of solution as insoluble phosphate compounds (<"most phosphate compounds are insoluble">). If you acidify your macro-solution (you can use "white vinegar" or ascorbic (or citric) acid), and re-test your macro-solution should find some PO4.

If you don't then it is likely that your salt (KH2PO4) was mis-labelled when you bought it.

Potassium di-hydrogen phosphate (KH2PO4) is naturally an acid (you have one K+, but two H+ ions in solution), so you could make a separate stock solution of it, even though you may still have problems with the formation of insoluble calcium phosphate complexes etc. in the tank.





ManDrawer said:


> Easy-Life Fosfo


It doesn't make any difference where an ion came from, every PO4--- ion is the same as every other PO4--- ion, they have been on earth for the last several billion years, <"continually being re-cycled">.  





ManDrawer said:


> I also lowered my light significantly as I can't keep up with nutrients.
> As soon as I get a reply and new salts I will test them straight away, not sure yet how to test trace element's though


It is not easy to test for the full range of micro-nutrients, even with analytical grade equipment.

cheers Darrel


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## ManDrawer (20 Aug 2017)

Hi Darrel,

Many thanks for your reply, the Fosfo and Macro solution are both tested with the same test and same water, Fosfo clearly shows a blue solution the Macro doesn't change colour one bit.
I think the salts are mislabelled, I might order a new one from another source to test. (Unless they are going to send me a new package which I doubt)
I will buy all new as I now don't trust any of their salts anymore unfortunately.

However I will try what you say with pure PO4 salts and Vinegar.


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## ManDrawer (20 Aug 2017)

Done, tested 1tsp PO4 salt with white vinegar, no trace of PO4.


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## dw1305 (20 Aug 2017)

Hi all,





ManDrawer said:


> ...the Fosfo and Macro solution are both tested with the same test and same water, Fosfo clearly shows a blue solution the Macro doesn't change colour one bit. I think the salts are mislabelled,


 That looks like that is the most likely option. 

cheers Darrel


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## HiNtZ (20 Aug 2017)

Weird.... even with a commercial PO4 fertiliser you still show nothing? There must be something wrong with the test kit.

I use API phosphate test kit, but only to see if I have any present. I don't pay attention to the colour match..... just the fact that if there is colour, there's at least some phosphates.


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## ManDrawer (20 Aug 2017)

I'm using JBL Test PO4 sensitive, and it is working fine. If you read the full story you see when I use Easy-Life Fosfo in my tank it gives the exact reading. JBL Test PO4 sensitive gets more blue the more PO4 it detects. I updated the TLDR to avoid confusion.

I just ordered 100G of All-in-One Complete Macros And Micros Fertiliser lets see how that goes.


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## ManDrawer (12 Sep 2017)

Small update, have been using new ferts no more algae and my plants look amazing.

I did trim out the leaves with algae on it a while ago, I also turned the rocks around and for 2 weeks no no algae what so ever.


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## ManDrawer (20 Sep 2017)

And a week later, plants are doing amazing. No more Algae, light Kessil A160WE Tune Sun is on for 9 hours of which 3 hours on 95% no algae or anything.
I'm now using this CO2 supermarkets 'All-in-one' Macro & Micro fertiliser and its doing great, really recommend it.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (20 Sep 2017)

What's it look like when you compare it to other salts? I find po4 looks like crystal snowflakes (best I can describe ) when dropped in the water. Magnesium looks like sugar, potassium sulphate is fine like salt and kno3 slightly larger and clumps together in the container. Maybe you could identify it and use it anyway if it was mislabelled any way. If you bought some deion water and you have test kits you maybe could ascertain both visually and using tests what you actually have. Waste not want not is my motto.


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## ManDrawer (20 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> What's it look like when you compare it to other salts? I find po4 looks like crystal snowflakes (best I can describe ) when dropped in the water. Magnesium looks like sugar, potassium sulphate is fine like salt and kno3 slightly larger and clumps together in the container. Maybe you could identify it and use it anyway if it was mislabelled any way. If you bought some deion water and you have test kits you maybe could ascertain both visually and using tests what you actually have. Waste not want not is my motto.



Hi, I did compare with pictures actually in a chat in the background, looks normal. I'm also waiting for people with the same PO4 salts to come back with test results. Either way I moved on with these new ferts and they are great, loads of PO4 in them when I tested. It's also not EI, with every other day and 50% water changes (Which is brutal on my shrimp with my small tank) simply daily dosing no hassle, I can get my kid or wife to do this as well.

I also contacted the shop and it could not possible a mixup as their quality control is top notch, so in other words its probably my fault and something I did with the salt (as always)

Here is a picture of the salt.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Sep 2017)

Yeah, it looks the part I have to admit. Sort of top layer fresh snow.


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## dw1305 (21 Sep 2017)

Hi all,





ManDrawer said:


> I'm also waiting for people with the same PO4 salts to come back with test results.


@Zeus., sent me a salt to test, and Ceri, our analytical chemist, can confirm that it is potassium dihydrogen phosphate (KH2PO4).

cheers Darrel


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## ManDrawer (22 Sep 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,@Zeus., sent me a salt to test, and Ceri, our analytical chemist, can confirm that it is potassium dihydrogen phosphate (KH2PO4).
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hi Darrel, Thanks for that I did however not mention the shop name here 
I knew that would be the case, I'm just unlucky or my PO4 has magically dissolved in to thin air.

If you want I can send you my bag and you can do with it whatever you want.

Anyway no worries though I moved to a new product and its working great.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 Sep 2017)

ManDrawer said:


> Hi Darrel, Thanks for that I did however not mention any shop names  here
> I knew that would be the case, I'm just unlucky or my PO4 has magically dissolved in to thin air.
> 
> If you want I can send you my bag and you can do with it whatever you want.
> ...


I think inadvertently you might have named a brand if I'm reading this right but it's OK it's been cleared up now. If you're not sure what I mean pm me and maybe you can ask a mod to change it as your ability to edit that post might be gone now. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## ManDrawer (22 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I think inadvertently you might have named a brand if I'm reading this right but it's OK it's been cleared up now. If you're not sure what I mean pm me and maybe you can ask a mod to change it as your ability to edit that post might be gone now.
> 
> Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


Sorry I edited the post I mean the shop I purchased the PO4 salts from (Naming and shaming). The other shop names are only positive so there shouldn't be a problem there.

They company I purchased the PO4 salts from offered me a refund or new salts but as I owned the salts for almost a year I don't think that would be fair, and I was more interested in stepping away from EI with an All in one product.
The only thing that gave me a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, was the fact that the shop stated that it could not possible be something bad done on their part. And when I offered to return the bag for further investigation they did not show any interest what so ever.

Only thing I want to get across with this thread is that it's probably more advisable to test your salts and not blindly trust the labels.


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

I have been having the same issues here as ManDrawer.

If you check on my post history I came on here for some advice about it.

Anyways I have also ordered a different fert. Also going for an all in one option I'm going to try "the aquascaper complete plant food".

Adding K2SO4 to my macro solution did fix the problem of holes in leaves. I bought this separately from ei starter pack.

my tank is low tech


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## AverageWhiteBloke (28 Sep 2017)

Are people testing for po4 using the salt in pure water or in tank water, I appreciate po4 tests are generally grossly out but there are also other things in tank water that could mask po4 in the tests possibly?


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

I haven't tested for phosphate yet as I don't have a test kit, hopefully will get one today. I have however ordered a different plant food. I'll let everybody know my results.

New plant food should be arriving tomorrow from aquarium gardens.


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

OK results of testing.

Macro fertiliser with 1 teaspoon of KH2PO4 - no phosphate present @ 0 PPM.

I never do water testing so I decided to check the tank water and got a reading of 1 PPM I assume this is coming from fish food and K2SO4 that I also add

I also went on and tested the tap water which showed same reading. I only did a water change yesterday.


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## dw1305 (28 Sep 2017)

Hi all, 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Are people testing for po4 using the salt in pure water


I made up the stock solution in DI water. 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I appreciate po4 tests are generally grossly out but there are also other things in tank water that could mask po4 in the tests possibly?


 No, if phosphorus is present as *PO4--- ions*, the kit will change colour. 





dan4x4 said:


> Macro fertiliser with 1 teaspoon of KH2PO4 - no phosphate present @ 0 PPM


 It is possible that the salt you were supplied with wasn't "mono-potassium phosphate" (KH2PO4), but it is also possible  that it was KH2PO4 and that the PO4--- ions had come out of solution, and formed an insoluble salt.  

If you have a precipitate in the macro solution? it is likely to be a phosphate compound. You could try acidifying the fertiliser mix (with "white vinegar"?) and then waiting a few hours before testing again. 





dan4x4 said:


> and got a reading of 1 PPM I assume this is coming from fish food and K2SO4 that I also add I also went on and tested the tap water which showed same reading. I only did a water change yesterday


It won't be the potassium sulphate (K2SO4), but the fish food and tap water will both contain phosphate. 

Most (all?) tap water in the UK has phosphate added, this is to ensure that any heavy metals (from lead, zinc or copper pipes are precipitated out) before they can reach the consumer. 

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (28 Sep 2017)

dw1305 said:


> I made up the stock solution in DI water.



I was meaning OP and Dan Darrel, yours was lab tested.


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

Hi Darrel

Yeah its my fault, I know this but I'm an idiot and got mixed but between Potassium (K) and Phosphate (P). Honestly I would normally know this so i'm going to blame this cold I have LOLs.

I use tap water for my macro mix so its strange that it hasn't showed anything up on the test. Darrel is definitely right my water supplier does add phosphate to provide a coating on lead pipes on the water network - I know cos I work there and I asked a water quality scientist why. Although its no longer on my water quality report.

I have contacted the seller aquariumplantfood.co.uk and asked for a refund. I await a reply. 

It'll be interesting to see if dosing makes a difference with this complete fertiliser I ordered today. 

Just for the record here's my test result.


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

this was the test from the tap water below


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

My LFS also advised that the test kit is for fresh water not salt water. I did pick up a red sea one initially as he sells a lot of reef stuff but I was advised that red sea is for salt water only.

This is the test I used as it was the only one I could find locally http://www.swelluk.com/salifert-pro...AldGuq0A8O4kUTt8lyMert-tGI3-tMVxoCm9YQAvD_BwE


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## ManDrawer (28 Sep 2017)

Hi all, at least I'm not alone in this thankfully as I was starting to doubt myself and think I might have really done something wrong.
There is 0 Phosphates in my tap water in Ireland and I have tested my salts with vinegar as previously already advised by Darrel.

I understand that there might be fluctuations because of the way the salts are created, but no PO4 at all in this salt when it is the main ingredient is bad to say the least.
If there is any danger of the phosphates dissolving because of some chemical reaction it should be stated on the package. I had problem from the start (and tested at LFS) so I'm quite sure I never had PO4 in the mixture.

I appreciate everyone's help and advise, thanks.


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## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

Yeah also anybody with these ferts might be worthwhile checking this out. Thanks ManDrawer for raising this. Consumer power!

I have a phosphate test kit spare if anybody needs it.


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## Konsa (29 Sep 2017)

Hi all
After reading the thread and having trouble with GSA and stunted growth in my last high tech tank wich was not a complete disaster but was hard work to keep algae free. Today went and tested my macro solution in my lfs.There was no PO4 present in the solution.It is cristal clear and there are no bits that indicate any reaction with the other salts. I am using aquarium plant food dry salts too.Atm my tanks are all low tech and are also in not too bad shape .Maybe without CO2 suplement,the large wc and food I put in are able to provide some PO4.
Very usefull thread.Will buy new salts asap.
Thanks for the heads up.
All the best. 
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

Just an idea, when testing in macro solution I would imagine N and P are in quite concentrated amounts, would this not throw the test?


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## Konsa (29 Sep 2017)

Hi
I was not testing for accuracy.Any little value would have done.The lad in my lfs actually thought it was my tank water the PO4 test showed zero and he did NO3 too wich does indicate NO3 and changed colour.Then he started waffling that NO3 was a tad too high and if i have algae problems bla bla......I was not listening at that point.
I was testing amonia years ago with new amazonia and the colour of the test kit was soo strong that was not even on the chart the test came with.
So even in concentrated solution it should still indicate sth and change colour
Its a shame as while I was using branded ferts all was easy and once I swapped to dry salts  it all became hard work.This was one of the reasons to go low tech.More slow growth and better times for reaction if I see sth that is not happening properly 
Regards Konsa


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## ian_m (29 Sep 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Most (all?) tap water in the UK has phosphate added, this is to ensure that any heavy metals (from lead, zinc or copper pipes are precipitated out) before they can reach the consumer.


Only in soft water areas is phosphate added. So as most of UK is hard water, chances of phosphate in your water is low.


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## dan4x4 (29 Sep 2017)

I live in the north east most we tend to have mainly soft water.

Your water suppliers are able to tell you what the water hardness is for the area, however this may fluctuate. I know boreholes are where harder water comes from up here, some suppliers mix boreholes and reservoirs in order to cover demand and also to reduce cost.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> I was not testing for accuracy.Any little value would have done.The lad in my lfs actually thought it was my tank water the PO4 test showed zero and he did NO3 too wich does indicate NO3 and changed colour.Then he started waffling that NO3 was a tad too high and if i have algae problems bla bla......I was not listening at that point.
> I was testing amonia years ago with new amazonia and the colour of the test kit was soo strong that was not even on the chart the test came with.
> So even in concentrated solution it should still indicate sth and change colour
> ...



I hear yah, anytime I have to leave for a few days (even with wife or kid helping) and come back I have to perform damage control with a big maintenance.. High Tech means High Work.

And many thanks for your feedback as well


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## Konsa (29 Sep 2017)

Hi 
Tbh not always high tech tanks are hard work.
I quite enjoy maintenance of my tanks and had some really easy high techs in the past.
It is just frustrating when even you are putting everything you have in maintaining them sth like that fert mistery is tripping you 
Regards Konsa


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Tbh not always high tech tanks are hard work.
> I quite enjoy maintenance of my tanks and had some really easy high techs in the past.
> It is just frustrating when even you are putting everything you have in maintaining them sth like that fert mistery is tripping you
> Regards Konsa



This is pretty much my first serious high tech tank so I'm quite the noob 
But yes I did not expect this with those salts either and I was about to give up all together.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

Hmm tricky one, so that's three people all with the same ferts, all showing 0 with standard test kits (I assume) and a sample that got lab tested by Darrels colleague shows that it is indeed potassium phosphate.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Hmm tricky one, so that's three people all with the same ferts, all showing 0 with standard test kits (I assume) and a sample that got lab tested by Darrels colleague shows that it is indeed potassium phosphate.



One can assume that this might be a batch issue? It would be crazy if everyone had the same problem with these ferts. If everyone reading this with the same ferts can go to the LFS or test themselves that would be great to get a bigger picture.
I have tested my new ferts and they become dark blue as soon as I add the first drops to the solution so its not our way of testing. No offence though but you seem extremely eager to prove us all wrong.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

Would doing a po4 test with just deionised water in then dropping a couple of grains of your po4 salt into it make a difference?


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## dw1305 (29 Sep 2017)

Hi all,





ian_m said:


> Only in soft water areas is phosphate added.


 That would make more sense.

I know Wessex Water built both a NaOH injection plant and a phosphate dosing plant locally despite our water coming from a deep limestone aquifer (about 18dKH), but I don't know whether they use it, or exactly why they built it.

There might be some softer water from a greensand aquifer to the east of us, but otherwise it is all chalk and limestone. 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Would doing a po4 test with just deionised water in then dropping a couple of grains of your po4 salt into it make a difference?


Should do.

cheers Darrel


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Would doing a po4 test with just deionised water in then dropping a couple of grains of your po4 salt into it make a difference?


Please read through all my replies, I have tested the ready solution so not pure PO4 and I have tested with pure Vinegar as I have stated several times. Why do I feel I have to defend and repeat myself all the time.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

Having a bad day @ManDrawer I think you're protesting a bit too much. No one's saying you have to defend yourself or suggesting you are wrong are they? People are just looking at two possibilities here both equally questionable. The chance the supplier has a faulty batch, which must be a big one if three random people at three separate occasions happen to buy into this batch in which case someone should really let that supplier know and warn others OR are the tests that are being carried out so far out that they wouldn't even register PO4 when PO4 is being tested considering when it went to the lab with some proper equipment it clearly showed up as PO4.

That's the mystery I find interesting and my mind is still open to possibilities either way. It's quite a serious accusation for the supplier who probably gets a lot of business through this forum so the accusation needs to from a solid foundation in my eyes.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

We all have doubts about test kits well documented and po4 seems to be one of the worst, so we going to pull someone's business to bits with a £7 test kit from the LFS?

Just to add, I have a test kit and some of that branded po4 so I'm tempted to see what happens just out of curiosity but my salts are from waaayyy back so I don't think I could add anything other if negative it's been going on for a while but then we come back to the reliability of the test kit.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> We all have doubts about test kits well documented and PO4 seems to be one of the worst, so we going to pull someone's business to bits with a £7 test kit from the LFS?



Two things here, I am getting frustrated because I have to repeat myself. second I have not named the shop for that reason. However now that more people have the same issue it's time to to name the shop so that others can test their salts as well. I appreciate people wanting to help and find out whats happening as I have acknowledged several times, but asking the same questions over and over again is not really contributing much. But I am eager to see your test results and thanks for testing.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

ManDrawer said:


> second I have not named the shop for that reason.



Ok, like I pointed out earlier, in post one you clearly pointed out they were APF branded so I was reading your replies, whether you named the 3rd party supplier makes no difference we all know which ferts you mean which I pointed out if you read that bit?

Secondly I come in here to listen, learn, relax and help out with my limited knowledge if I can not to row with anybody. If you want to row with me I'll send you my address and you can pop round for a cup of tea. In the mean time I'll see if there's anything more interesting in the rest of the board and get on with my Friday night.

Laters and be lucky.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Ok, like I pointed out earlier, in post one you clearly pointed out they were APF branded so I was reading your replies, whether you named the 3rd party supplier makes no difference we all know which ferts you mean which I pointed out if you read that bit?
> 
> Secondly I come in here to listen, learn, relax and help out with my limited knowledge if I can not to row with anybody. If you want to row with me I'll send you my address and you can pop round for a cup of tea. In the mean time I'll see if there's anything more interesting in the rest of the board and get on with my Friday night.
> 
> Laters and be lucky.



Could you quote the APF branding for me as I can't find it? Cup of tea sure but I'm not very good at rowing to be honest.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Ok, that was obviously not intended and I'm bad at reading so it seems. Are you still going to test your salt? Because I'm obviously still curious.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Sep 2017)

No problem brother, stay frosty, it's just a hobby. Hope you have more luck with your new ferts which seems to be working out for you. Sorry to the admin for putting up brand names so feel free to delete until it's proven either way.


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Cheers, I will edit my branding at least.


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## Konsa (29 Sep 2017)

Hi all
Peaple here getting exited a bit.
I didn't mean to stir it all up by posting.
I am only stating a fact.I dont have the knowledge or the equipment to properly test the salt.I am mixing my mixes using boiled tap water too so there may be all my fault.
Will get different salts and test them too as soon as  I have them.
Regards Konsa


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Nah all my bad, I was getting a bit too frustrated my apologies for setting a negative tone here.
Cake for everyone


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## dan4x4 (29 Sep 2017)

When did everybody buy their ferts, that would answer if this is a batch issue?

I don't think anybody should feel bad about bringing this to light. We are a forum and I think its important that we all share information wether it be good or bad.


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## dan4x4 (29 Sep 2017)

Also its much easier to take stuff written down the wrong way. Shame we don't have like an aquascaping pub we could all meet up at and have beers while we watch fish ha


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Yeah that would be awesome, I'm all for that


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## Zeus. (29 Sep 2017)

The batch of mine which Darrel tested and passed was purchased as a starter kit on 19/1/2017


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

I bought mine last year, can't find the exact date anymore. My account got deleted from their website lol.


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## Konsa (29 Sep 2017)

I bought mine March -April 2016 as a part of starter kit
Regards Konsa


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

I think mine was about that same time.


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## dan4x4 (29 Sep 2017)

mine was purchased in May - also part of a starter kit - 2017


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## ManDrawer (29 Sep 2017)

Ok date was 11/04/2016


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## dan4x4 (29 Sep 2017)

well I guess we don't know unless other people comment really.

Either way I've saved myself loads of extra work by changing ferts.


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