# Filter experiment to control algae



## martinpsmith33@protonmail (12 Jul 2021)

Juwel 450 with the following
1 x fluval 405
2 x fluval 406
1 x fluval 407
1 x fluval fx5 (not fully cycled been in one month)

Has anyone else tried massive over filtration to control algae?

Currently have bba, but looks like it is retreating. Dosing 1/2 tblsp know 1/4 tsp kh2po4 3 x week, & trace every other day. Plants are growing extremely well. Co2 injection.

Any thoughts


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## Vsevolod Stakhov (12 Jul 2021)

I have tried it successfully to control GDA/BGA. The key factor was surprisingly 'never clean or touch filters' + maximum amount of filter media possible. Clogging was avoided by using plastic K1/HelX rings and matala mats (no mechanic filtering at all). BBA/Staghorn are more tough for me: they don't grow like a fire with good filtration but never disappear completely. Probably, that's not the ideal result but, huh, my filters now require zero maintenance which is a good thing per se.


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## martinpsmith33@protonmail (12 Jul 2021)

I give mine a clean once every 8 weeks. They are all full of alfagrog.


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## ceg4048 (12 Jul 2021)

martinpsmith33@protonmail said:


> Juwel 450 with the following
> 1 x fluval 405
> 2 x fluval 406
> 1 x fluval 407
> ...


Hello,
         Filtration per se has little to do with reduction of BBA. The aspect of the filters that do the work are the pumps which provide flow and distribution of the CO2 and nutrients. A 450 liter tank ideally require a rated flow 4500 L/hour for proper distribution of the gas and nutrients. 
BBA is a CO2 related algae so it is entirely logical and consistent that application of high flow rates evenly distributed within the tank delivers the gas to the plants thereby making them healthy and suppressing BBA blooms.

Cheers,


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## Vsevolod Stakhov (13 Jul 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> BBA is a CO2 related algae so it is entirely logical and consistent that application of high flow rates evenly distributed within the tank delivers the gas to the plants thereby making them healthy and suppressing BBA blooms.


Yes, I've made exactly the same observations. Exceed of BBA/Staghorn means some problem in CO2 distribution, one time it was an empty CO2 bottle, another time it was inadequate CO2 levels comparing to the increase of the plants mass (my drop-checker turned blue occasionally). That caused two main effects: holes in the old leaves accompanied by red algae. However, 'fixing' CO2 issues have not eliminated red algae completely. Perhaps, I have not fixed those issues completely, but I don't know.


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## erwin123 (13 Jul 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> Filtration per se has little to do with reduction of BBA. The aspect of the filters that do the work are the pumps which provide flow and distribution of the CO2 and nutrients. A 450 liter tank ideally require a rated flow 4500 L/hour for proper distribution of the gas and nutrients.
> BBA is a CO2 related algae so it is entirely logical and consistent that application of high flow rates evenly distributed within the tank delivers the gas to the plants thereby making them healthy and suppressing BBA blooms.
> 
> Cheers,






martinpsmith33@protonmail said:


> Juwel 450 with the following
> 1 x fluval 405
> 2 x fluval 406
> 1 x fluval 407
> ...



I am using 2 canister filters for my 100 litre tank (60x45x40).

I came to UKAPS and learnt that "plants are the filter" and you need to make sure your "plant filter" is working well by ensuring a steady "flow" of nutrients/CO2.

Since then, I have reduced the amount of filter media (Matrix and other 'bio' media) in my canister filters and increased the amount of  sponges (higher flow and some mechanical filtering too)!

I still have mechanical filtration for aesthetic reasons (i.e. to clean up the mess the Cories make digging the substrate)


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## PARAGUAY (13 Jul 2021)

martinpsmith33@protonmail said:


> Juwel 450 with the following
> 1 x fluval 405
> 2 x fluval 406
> 1 x fluval 407
> ...


Interesting to see progress on this


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## Zeus. (13 Jul 2021)

Like @ceg4048 said , in a well planted tank its the plants that take care of the biological filtration mainly and the filter can form a detritus trap/filter, when the filter collects the detritus it needs cleaning regularly especially if you have fine filtration ( and even with medium and coarse filtration only). As when the filter media gets clogged it reduces filter output which will have two effects 1, reduced turnover in tank - which can lead to CO2 fluctuations, which can lead to algae. 2, reduce flow in filter leads to decreased O2 levels in filter and our canisters are mainly anaerobic to start with, so a better flow in filter increase flow/[O2] so the denitrification process gets the O2 its needs, which in turn converts potentially harmful ammonium compounds and nitrites to harmless nitrates. Always good to have some headroom in the denitrification process as if a fish dies and we don't spot it at least the tank can handle the extra load.
I cleaned my FX6 weekly in my 500L when it was high tech, sponges was always dirty.

To quote the master of CO2 again - 'Flow is King'


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## martinpsmith33@protonmail (13 Jul 2021)

My theory is that in nature there is masses of surface area for the bacteria to grow on, so the more filtration you have the closer to nature you get.


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## Zeus. (13 Jul 2021)

martinpsmith33@protonmail said:


> My theory is that in nature there is masses of surface area for the bacteria to grow on, so the more filtration you have the closer to nature you get.



bio media for fluval 305 In our planted tanks the filter surface area will never match the plants roots surface area for bacteria to grow.


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## dw1305 (13 Jul 2021)

Hi all, 


martinpsmith33@protonmail said:


> My theory is that in nature there is masses of surface area for the bacteria to grow on, so the more filtration you have the closer to nature you get.


I understand what you are saying, but there are <"two things to bear in mind">:

Planted tanks have a much larger area for nitrififying micro-organisms in the rhizosphere, the <"zone of fluctuating REDOX values around plant roots">, and
Nitrification is nearly always limited <"by oxygen availability">, not lack of space.
cheers Darrel


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## ForestDave (14 Jul 2021)

Zeus. said:


> Like @ceg4048 said , in a well planted tank its the plants that take care of the biological filtration mainly and the filter can form a detritus trap/filter, when the filter collects the detritus it needs cleaning regularly especially if you have fine filtration ( and even with medium and coarse filtration only). As when the filter media gets clogged it reduces filter output which will have two effects 1, reduced turnover in tank - which can lead to CO2 fluctuations, which can lead to algae. 2, reduce flow in filter leads to decreased O2 levels in filter and our canisters are mainly anaerobic to start with, so a better flow in filter increase flow/[O2] so the denitrification process gets the O2 its needs, which in turn converts potentially harmful ammonium compounds and nitrites to harmless nitrates. Always good to have some headroom in the denitrification process as if a fish dies and we don't spot it at least the tank can handle the extra load.
> I cleaned my FX6 weekly in my 500L when it was high tech, sponges was always dirty.
> 
> To quote the master of CO2 again - 'Flow is King'


Hi Zeus. 
I removed my filter floss yesterday after reading a post from you about improving flow to better distribute the CO2. I also have 2 trays in my FX6 with a bag of ceramic filter rings in each ://www.finest-filters.co.uk/500g-ceramic-filter-rings/ . Would you suggest getting rid of these as well and swapping them out for a sheet of coarse foam?

The reason I ask is that I am struggling with an alternanthera reineckii, which is growing slowly I think but the leaves are brown/green. I'm also ramping up my CO2 as I am not convinced the 1ph drop reading from my cheap pen is a full 1ph drop.
Cheers!
​


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## Zeus. (14 Jul 2021)

I use to have my FX6 rammed with Biohome, then I tuned it down




Using the course and medium sponges and a little ceramic in each free tray, even have a couple trays empty nowadays


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## ForestDave (14 Jul 2021)

Zeus. said:


> I use to have my FX6 rammed with Biohome, then I tuned it down
> View attachment 171849
> Using the course and medium sponges and a little ceramic in each free tray, even have a couple trays empty nowadays


Cheers!


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## erwin123 (14 Jul 2021)

It just occurred to me - if you are massively overfiltering, how /what do you feed your fish? Seems like floating fish food might be problematic because the filters will suck in the food before they are completely eaten?  Or do you go with sinking wafers only?


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## Zeus. (14 Jul 2021)

erwin123 said:


> It just occurred to me - if you are massively overfiltering, how /what do you feed your fish? Seems like floating fish food might be problematic because the filters will suck in the food before they are completely eaten?  Or do you go with sinking wafers only?


I get round it with a PLC one press of button and Ehiem skimmer is off for 20mins and Maxspect Gyres (which take care of tank turnover) off for 10mins, any that gets sucked into FX6 RCS take care off as there's always plenty of them in there when I come to clean the filter when I do it regularly, on smaller tank I don't have fish just RCS


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## ceg4048 (14 Jul 2021)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> Yes, I've made exactly the same observations. Exceed of BBA/Staghorn means some problem in CO2 distribution, one time it was an empty CO2 bottle, another time it was inadequate CO2 levels comparing to the increase of the plants mass (my drop-checker turned blue occasionally). That caused two main effects: holes in the old leaves accompanied by red algae. However, 'fixing' CO2 issues have not eliminated red algae completely. Perhaps, I have not fixed those issues completely, but I don't know.


Hi,
     BBA is tenacious and does not typically go away just because you have fixed your CO2 issues. They have to be forced out by mechanical and/or chemical methods accompanied by frequent and very large water changes. Remove the tufts as often as you can and after a few weeks they will decline. Overdosing liquid carbon products such as Excel or equivalent is a good way to remove the tufts. You will see them turn pink/purple and then you can remove them.

Cheers,


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## Driftless (14 Jul 2021)

I have spotted treated hardscape outside of the tank with hydrogen peroxide to good effect.


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## ForestDave (14 Jul 2021)

Zeus. said:


> I get round it with a PLC one press of button and Ehiem skimmer is off for 20mins and Maxspect Gyres (which take care of tank turnover) off for 10mins, any that gets sucked into FX6 RCS take care off as there's always plenty of them in there when I come to clean the filter when I do it regularly, on smaller tank I don't have fish just RCS


Those shrimp are proper tough! I’ve accidentally sucked a load into  my FX6 a few times before and they’ve all been fine. They seem to love it in there in the pitch black surrounded by filter scum. 😂


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## martinpsmith33@protonmail (14 Jul 2021)

All the intakes are at the back, I just feed 1/2 a teaspoon of food at the front, the flow sends it all over and the fish chase it.


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## martinpsmith33@protonmail (24 Mar 2022)

So, about 9 months later things are looking good, I only have a gravel substrate, only do 50% ro water change 1 per week, each filter gets cleaned once every 5 months. I don't touch any thing in the tank except pull a load of plants out every now and then. I dose 0.5 tblspn potassium nitrate 0.25 potassium phosphate & 0.25 trace 3x a week. Attached is a video of current state.


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## martinpsmith33@protonmail (24 Mar 2022)

And another


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