# Mjenner's Juwel Rio 125 Planted Tank



## mjenner (18 Feb 2009)

Hi Everyone,

After my tank devolved into an algae-filled cess-pool whilst I was in South Africa for 4 weeks after limping along with a horrendous algae problem partly caused by too many fish and partly by not quite so attentive maintainance I decided that as it's a new year I'd start afresh, so this is going to be a journal of my restarting the tank and hopefully doing it "properly".

I got rid of the 40-50ish guppies and rehoused my 12 harlequin rasboras in my fry-tank in the other room (medium sized cube-tank).

The tank has been stripped down, the plastics soaked in bleach, then dechlorinated, the tank has been washed in vinegar (to get rid of the limescale) then mild-bleach solution to try and kill any remaining stealth-algal spores waiting to reinfect the new tank (yep, I know it's a losing battle, but I thought I'd try and reduce the initial population as much as possible) then the tank was washed with dechlorinated water 3 times and left to air-dry, I'm figuring that when I fill it I'll use more than enough dechlorinator to get rid of any chlorine left floating around after all that.

The tank had the following lighting, filter and CO2 (wasn't being used for the last few months to try and reduce maintainance):


4x 18w T8 Tubes (varying types, generally spread-spectrum, only 2 were being used to try and reduce maintainance reqs).

Fluval 205 External Filter (with Rowaphos and carbon).  (sorry, mentioned it as a 305 in the DIY thread, I mis-read as it was a little late)

JBL Pressurised CO2 kit with Solenoid

I've cleared the old substrate (a Tetra substrate product, came in a yellow tub, with small gravel over it) and it's awaiting 2 bags of Seachem Fluorite.

I've ordered upgraded lighting in the form of a replacement Juwel Hi-Lite T5 unit with 2 Arcadia J5 28W tubes, probably adding the two extra T8 tubes in for extra light, making it 92W total, might drop that to 1 extra T8 though for easier access to the front of the tank...

New Tank Spec
Lighting:

Juwel Hi-Lite T5 Unit (2x28W Arcadia J5(T5) Tubes)

2xT8 18W Tubes
Flitration/Flow:

Fluval 205 External Filter (with Smooth Hose and Eheim Inlet/Spraybar Outlet mod)

Hydor Koralia Nano Powerhead
Substrate:

Seachem Fluorite (7cm average depth)
Water Params (from memory):

Hardness: 12-14dKh

pH: 7.6 (ish)
CO2:

JBL Pressurised CO2 Kit (With CO2, without pH meter)

Stock JBL Plastic Spiral style diffuser
Dosing/Fertiliser:

Tropica Plant Nutrition+

Currently waiting for the orders to arrive and re-organising the cupboard underneath the tank so it's a little more accessable and a little less lethal (plugbanks and adaptors everywhere on the base of the cupboard, along with water, not a good mix!).

Can anyone see any issues with my setup list or does anyone think I've missed anything (planning on getting dry ferts sometime in the future, but initially probably going with TPN+, going to see how things go initially).

Comments and Criticism welcome.

Cheers,

Matt


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## JohnC (18 Feb 2009)

Hi,

I've got that JBL spiral diffuser and found i got much better economy of CO2 with a cheap ceramic one. The JBL one just spirals the CO2 into the top area then it off gasses every so often in a bunch of huge bubbles. Very wasteful.

Do you have a drop checker yet with KH4 solution?

Best Regards,

John

edit - i'm gonna presume you got a heater


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## mjenner (18 Feb 2009)

> Do you have a drop checker yet with KH4 solution?



Yep got the stock JBL CO2 indicator, but I do need to get some 4 dKH solution (was using tank water prior to this, wasn't too successful).  



> i'm gonna presume you got a heater



Hehehe, yep 100w stock Juwel heater, although I'm thinking about going in-line in the future (hence the conversion to smooth hose on the filter).

Hmm, based upon what you're saying, I might try and get a ceramic diffuser...

What do you think of this:

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1228

Maybe I will have to get another order into AE, can get the 4dKH solution, and a nicer looking glass drop-checker at the same time. Then that WILL have to be the end of the spending spree (coming up on Â£200, not that the Significant Other knows quite how much has been spent  (although I think she has an idea...))

Edit - Another thought though, I guess I'll also need a bubble checker if I do that as I can't see the bubble rate in the diffuser? Agh, yet more expense


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## JohnC (18 Feb 2009)

hi,

check e-bay for cheap glassware, i've got all mine from there recently. You can get two diffusers for about a fiver (including shipping) from hong kong that are identical to the more expensive versions. Same with the drop checker.

Best Regards,

John


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## hellohefalump (19 Feb 2009)

I too wouldn't recommend the JBL spiral diffusers.  I used two of these, with the extender units.  I'm now using two very small filter (Hagen elite), which I'm running the CO2 tubing into.  The impellor chops up the bubbles and it's VERY efficient.


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

hijac said:
			
		

> check e-bay for cheap glassware


Hmm, hijac you might be on to something there!

I've ordered a CO2 diffuser, bubble counter, drop-checker and lily pipes (will need to replace my inflow and outflow anyway so thought I'd make it look pretty as they're actually cheaper than the eheim plastic ones!) all in glass!

Just got to wait for them to deliver them now!  



			
				hellohefalump said:
			
		

> I too wouldn't recommend the JBL spiral diffusers.  I used two of these, with the extender units.  I'm now using two very small filter (Hagen elite), which I'm running the CO2 tubing into.  The impellor chops up the bubbles and it's VERY efficient.


Well, I've ordered two ceramic diffusers now, should look fairly nice and clean, guess it's time to see if they do the trick, if not I'll take a look at a filter, but I'm trying to keep the tank as equipment free as possible.


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## LondonDragon (19 Feb 2009)

I too have a Juwel Rio 125, have a look at my journal for more info, also if you need help with the EI dosing let me know.

Just a reminder if you removed the internal filter from the tank the Juwel heater is not designed to work totally submersed.

Also if you want to keep equipment out of the tank you can have a look in the following posts for a DIY CO2 reactor, Ed might make some more of those after the first batch:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4626 & viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4149

If you are going to keep using only the Fluval 205 I suggest you get a Koralia 1 rather than the Nano, I have a Nano in my tank and its not good enough. Filter should be bigger too, more like a 405.

Have fun!


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Hi Paulo,

Argh, erm, I wasn't planning on upgrading the 205 at present, in fact I'd only just got it about 3 months ago! 
I haven't got room for another filter at present in there at the moment, the fish-load will only be light for now, so I might replace it in a couple of months depending on how things go?

I've also just got the Koralia Nano  thinking the 1 was too big... I was thinking of putting it in the back corner to hide it a bit more than in your tank, but it all depends on how the glosso/HC carpet grows I guess (I've always wanted to cultivate one in there and your tank has made me want one even more!  ).  

Maybe I'll have to supplement it with a second one in the other back corner, the CO2 diffuser I've just ordered comes as a pair, so I might put both in the tank in each corner with the nano over it pointing in a X fashion toward the front of the glass, I used this arrangement in my old Marine tank to create flow as it used to bounce off the glass and move round in a 8 pattern quite nicely, should push the CO2 laden water about quite well, but it might be a bit too turbulent?  I'm not sure as I haven't seen/felt the nano in action yet.

Thanks for the info on the heater... Hmm might have been why it didn't seem to be working too well the last few months...  (it did maintain water temp but was on the low-side despite being set to it's max heat).  Right, another thing for the shopping list, but the backup heater can do the job for now... (hmm, I hope I've still got the backup heater?).

Looks like I'm pretty much destined to replace everything but the tank from the looks of things !  

I'll dose TPN+ for now seeing as I've got it, but I'll be buying dry ferts sometime soon and I'll be sure to PM you for some advice.

Thanks,

Matt


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## LondonDragon (19 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Looks like I'm pretty much destined to replace everything but the tank from the looks of things !


Thats the problem with Juwels and high tech tanks, the only thing I have left in mine original is the glass and the plastic casing of the internal filter, everything else has been upgraded including the powerhead in the internal hehe


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Well, quick update, my first order has (partially arrived), we've got the following:

Fluorite (2x7kg bags)
Hydor Koralia Nano Pump (now thought to be a little too weedy, might need to get another at some point).
Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus Fertilizer

Still waiting on:

New Lights (Juwel Hi-Lite Bar and 2x28w J5 Tubes)
Excel Flourish
2xCO2 Glass Ceramic Diffusers (will probably only use one)
Glass Bubble Counter
Glass Drop Checker
Glass Lily Pipes (inlet and outlet)

Still need to buy:

Smooth Clear Hose
New Heater (seeing as the Juwel one may well be broken and isn't designed to be used submerged... oops  )
Plants (obviously) 

Also, here's a small pic of the pile of equipment in my now sparkling clean (but empty  ) tank.






Excuse the picture quality, blame apple for fitting the iPhone with one of the worst cameras on available on a modern phone, I'll break out my DSLR once I start the tank up again.


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## Themuleous (19 Feb 2009)

All sounds good  nice to get everything you need from the off, rather than having to buy when money is available! 

Sam


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Woohoo:



> Charterhouse Aquatics
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Order Number: 299XX
> Detailed Invoice: https://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk ... rder_id=XX
> ...



The light and bulbs are on their way!


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## Themuleous (19 Feb 2009)

I have always found them to be very good with delivery.

Sam


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## LondonDragon (19 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> New Lights (Juwel Hi-Lite Bar and 2x28w J5 Tubes)


Any particular reason you went with this option? You could have purchased a 4x24w Luminaire for around the same price on ebay, new from germany. Unless you got it really cheap.


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> All sounds good  nice to get everything you need from the off, rather than having to buy when money is available!
> 
> Sam



Well, it's not exactly a case of being able to buy everything, I just don't want to jeopardise the tank's success for the want of another Â£20, but I'm going to have to draw the line at getting another new filter as I can't justify it at the moment (only got that one a little while ago!  ), the second Hydor Koralia Nano might also have to wait and I only got the glassware because it was so cheap on eBay and was all coming from the same supplier in Hong Kong and I was going to have to buy new inlet and outlet pipes anyway and they would have cost more to get the plastic eheim ones!.

Not sure if I'm going to be able to afford a new heater, so I might use my backup for now until next month, I need to start saving for flights back to SA next year for my wedding (not to mention all the small point of paying for the remaining bits of the wedding)!

I really don't want to total up what I've spent on this hobby but I'm going to have to curb my little spending spree soon!


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## JamesM (19 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> ...
> Argh, erm, I wasn't planning on upgrading the 205 at present, in fact I'd only just got it about 3 months ago!
> I haven't got room for another filter at present in there at the moment, the fish-load will only be light for now, so I might replace it in a couple of months depending on how things go?
> ...


Filtration isn't the issue here, Matt, its all about flow.

You might find the 205 to be enough filtration, especially if its packed with sintered glass, but there simply wont be enough flow to get all the nutrients and co2 around the tank. This is why its recommended to have at least 10x turnover. Some people even recommend 20x turnover as all filters lose about 40% of their power when filled with media and hoses are connected.


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> mjenner said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was cheap (the deciding factor).  I got a bit worried I wouldn't have enough light for a carpet of plants on the bottom and my fiancee doesn't want an open top on the tank or any equipment visible outside the cabinet or tank.  So that means no CO2 canister standing beside the tank, or hanging luminaires, everything needs to be inside the cabinet.

This was one way to make sure it was all inside the tank.  Initially I had another 2 T5 bulbs piggy-backing the standard bulbs but I could barely get my hands in the tank without taking the top off, so I decided to go for the "official" solution (which as with most official solutions, probably isn't as good and is more expensive, but it does fit the proper lid doors and I should be able to do without the front T8 tube possibly).

If I went the luminaire option (believe me I was tempted) I would have had to get my girlfriend to agree to me making a DIY hood, then finding a way to mount the luminaire on/in it.  I had to do this with my old aquamedic metal halide when I had marines when I still lived at my parents a few years ago, it was quite good but a lot of work and went rusty on the hinges and you could tell it was DIY which was alright in my bedroom at the time, but not in our lounge really .

When I can finally afford a decent Marine setup again when we finally buy somewhere (this place is rented, another reason why I can't hang a luminaire over the tank), I'll be doing it properly and making sure there's LOTS of space in the hood for mounting lights and fans.

Oh well, I've got the thing now, so I'm going to have to live with it .


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## LondonDragon (19 Feb 2009)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Filtration isn't the issue here, Matt, its all about flow..


Ed runs his Juwel 180 tank with the internal filter with a Koralia for flow.

On my Rio 125 I am using the Eheim 2224 which is rated at 700lph which flow is not great, also have the internal filter with a 1000lph pump on it, the Koralia Nano rated at 900lph and another smaller powerhead running at 400lph. And IMO its still not enough flow for my tank. Specially if you then like jungle tikes like myself and the plant mass also reduce flow around the tank.

Regarding the lighting you can easily had a couple more tubes to the plastic flaps of the Juwel hood, I did that before I purchased the luminaire and worked fine and when you open the flaps the tubes go with it so gives you the same access to the tank as before


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## JamesM (19 Feb 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, same here - I'm now running an EX1200 on my 70 litre and things are finally improving. When my scape was more jungle style I was running two EX700's and still needed an additional powerhead to get more flow!  

Its all about the flow 8)


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Filtration isn't the issue here, Matt, its all about flow.



Hi James, hmm, yes, I am concerned about that, but the budget won't stretch to a new filter for now, I might be able to stretch to another Koralia Nano or Koralia 1 as I discussed with Paulo earlier, it's not a perfect solution but that should help with moving nutrients and CO2 around the tank?

Thanks for the advice so far guys, it's nice having people actively contributing, I haven't really got involved in a forum before, but you guys really seem to know your stuff and it's great having people to talk tanks with for a change!


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Hi again, getting a little trigger-happy with the posts at the moment, probably because work isn't too interesting at the moment, still, I have to pay for all this somehow! 

As I am aiming for a jungle-style tank along the same vein as Paulo's tank, I am now quite concerned that I might not have enough flow...

I was doing a few sums on the train on the way home following on from the conversation about flow and I've worked out the following (copied from a note on my iphone):


Tank Size = 125l

Min Flow 10xHour = 1250l/h
Target Flow 15xHour = 1875l/h

Fluval 205 Flow = 420l/h _(hmm, little bit worrying)_
Fluval 205 Flow (less 40% to account for hoses and media)= 252l/h _(arrrgh!)_
Hydor Koralia Nano =909l/h _(phew)_

Current Flow = 1191l/h = 9.58x per hr
With 2nd Nano = 2070l/h = 16.56x per hr

So with the one Koralia Nano we're just under 10x per hour, not great but just about feasable, I think there's more and more of a justification to get another Koralia Nano or a Koralia 1 and move the flow past 15x per hour.

Sound like a plan?

As usual, comments and criticism welcome .

Cheers,

Matt


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## Stu Worrall (19 Feb 2009)

ive got a tetratec ex1200 on my rio 125 and it seems to do the job quite well.  Now that its all grown in ive been considering getting a koralia one after speaking with dave spencer to get rid of some of the dead spots.  

If youre going for lilys id recommend you use your juwel heater for now and invest in an external hydor heater when youve got the money as they are so easy to use and take equipment out of the tank (plus you dont have to worry about blowing up the glass heater on water changes!)


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## mjenner (19 Feb 2009)

Hi Stu,

Yep, I'd agree, I'm not going to have to get a new heater for now, I've found my backup heater and I'll use that for now, the Juwel one will go in the bits box as a backup as the thermostat seems to be a little flaky (it seems stable, but not accurate anymore).

Well, that frees up a little cash for the second Koralia powerhead.  The new filter and in-line heater will be on the wish-list, but we'll have to wait for that... 

A question about the in-line heater though, won't you have just the same problem as with a normal heater if it's not turned off during water changes?  If the flow stops in the line won't it damage the inline heater as well if it's left on by accident?

Well, I think after the second powerhead and once all the bits are delivered, it's time to buy the plants and then that's it for spending on the tank for a while or my fiancee will kill me! 

Cheers,

Matt


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## Stu Worrall (20 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> A question about the in-line heater though, won't you have just the same problem as with a normal heater if it's not turned off during water changes?  If the flow stops in the line won't it damage the inline heater as well if it's left on by accident?


according to the instructions the heater "should" sense that theres no flow and turn the heater off but ive never chanced this and just turned it and the filter off at water change.  The problem I had with my internal heater was that I splashed cold water on it at water change and cracked it    I suppose there's less chance of doing this with the external


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## mjenner (20 Feb 2009)

Ah yep, luckily (touch wood) the longest I've ever left a heater out of the water has been for a couple of minutes, then it's normally "oh c**p!" and I shove it down into the tank water to cool it down again and switch it off (but it normally hasn't got to the "doing an impression of a cooling rod in a nuclear reactor" stage, so it's not too bad hopefully).  

Although now I've said that, I'm probably going to break one now! 

Typically now though all the plugs go off before I go in the tank (barring the lights, need to see what I'm doing), probably safer that way too.


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## mjenner (20 Feb 2009)

Well, another item on the list has just been delivered, the light has arrived!

I've also ordered the second Koralia Nano pump so we should have about 16x flow and some extra sintered glass filter media for the filter.  And that's the absolute end of the spending, the bank account can't take anymore!  (apart from the plants of course! )

Just got to wait for the final bits to arrive now!


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## mjenner (22 Feb 2009)

22/02/2009 - A Busy Weekend Tidying and Organising

Well, it's been a busy weekend!  I had a nice alarm-call at 9am on Saturday by the postman, my second Koralia Nano had arrived and I only ordered it at 3pm the day before, I must say Charterhouse Aquatics are amazingly quick with their deliveries! 

The new stuff so far:





I then decided to add the Fluorite to the tank, that stuff says it's pre-washed but can benefit from a rinse, they weren't kidding!




Coffee anyone? 




The equipment's in and the Fluorite's down (I'll decide on aquascaping next), I ended up going for the Fluval inlet/outlet as I've realised I've bought the wrong size glass inlet/outlet (DOH!) so that'll be going on ebay again as soon as I get it .

The T5s are a heck of a lot brighter than I'd thought, particularly with reflectors.  I've put one of my T8's back in but I need to move the reflector up order to do that and I think it doesn't actually look any brighter as I think it means that some of the reflected light from the T5's is blocked?.





I've been wondering how people get extra tubes into a Juwel hood with reflectors successfully, it worked ok when I had the T8 bar, but with the T5's you can really see the difference if the reflectors aren't quite aligned right, and you have to lift them up to put the other bulb in, or the reflector blocks most of the T8 bulb.

Paulo mentioned mounting the T8 bulb on the lids, I've been thinking about that too, but I think that I'll have the same issue, if I use reflectors (which seems to be of real benefit) something I'm going to have to think about I guess, maybe there are some other makes of reflector, but all the shops round here just stock the Arcadia ones .

The old Arcadia T8 reflectors are now balanced on the T5 tubes, need to find some T5 clips at some point to hold them properly but they'll stay there ok for now.

I put the old CO2 diffuser in for now, as I'm tempted to order some plants as the tank's looking odd all empty like that and I should be able to get the CO2 up to an ok level until the diffusers arrive and the Korialias in each corner should push the water about fairly well, all being well it should bounce off the front class and spiral off to the corners.

The next question (besides what to do with the T8 tubes) is I guess Aquascaping... I think I'll have to have a think about that one, I really like Paulo's tank but I don't really want to clone it (much as I would love to have his tank in my living room! ) so I'll have to have a bit of a think, I really want to try a carpet but I'm faced with a possible situation where I might not have enough light if I can't find a better way of mounting these tubes .

On a happier note, I finally organised my cupboard underneath the tank!  I've put in separate plugbanks and screwed my T8 ballast to the wall of the cupboard like I planned on doing quite a while ago, and organised the rats nest of cables, much happer with that now  :





I'll have a think about a plant-list tomorrow but I'm quite tempted to go with Java Plants 30" Collection (http://www.java-plants.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_30&products_id=256), as I started off with a pack from here the first time I set the tank up and it looked really good and was quite good value, I can then swap out the unwanted plants for other plants as/when I spot them? 

But, as always, I'm open to suggestions, I'm planning on Â£20-Â£30 for plants, I'll probably go back to java-plants again as they delivered me REALLY good quality plants last time round (all at least as good as I could get down my local Maidenhead Aquatics, many a lot better  ) but if you've got any ideas, I'd welcome any comments and criticism as always! 

Cheers


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## StevenA (22 Feb 2009)

Looks like it'll be a good journal mate  8)  The two Koralia nano's are a good idea, they'll certainly help with the flow and Co2 circulation. I've got a Koralia 2 in my tank, and I wish I'd had it from the start, cos it's made a real difference   I love seeing pictures of the equipment inside the cabinet by the way, nice one    And I've used Java plants about 5 times over the last year or two, and have been impressed with the quality every time, I just wish the dispatch was a bit quicker. I'm following this journal with interest mate, keep it up you're doing a great job


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## mjenner (23 Feb 2009)

Cheers Tourney! 

I'll let you know my preliminary plant list and see what you guys think.  I think I remember reading somewhere that it's better to plant with fast-growing stem plants initially and then replace them with your plants of choice?  Is that true or will I be ok starting with the plants I want?  My ultimate plan is to have a nice carpet of glosso at the front (providing I get the light situation sorted) do you think I would be wasting my money if I planted that straight away?

Comments and criticism welcome, as always,

Thanks

Matt


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## mjenner (23 Feb 2009)

Lighting Ponderings
Well, I spent the whole commute this morning wondering what to do about my lighting... 

The problem is that the centre brace means my T8's have to be pushed closer to the centre next to the T5's which means they clash with the reflectors, which in turn reduces the reflected light.  

If I don't have the two T8's, it means I technically have about 1.46wpg, but as far as my eye can tell it looks noticably brighter than 4x18w T8's.  

Now, taking the assumption that a T5 watt is more efficient than a T8 watt (in terms of comparison, I know this is a pretty bad way of doing it) then that's ok, I've heard various values for conversion of T5 wattage values, such as 1 watt of T5 is equivalent to 1.22, 1.4 to even 2 watts of T8/T12 light (various web sources), with a more conservative figure in mind (1.4), I've got just over 2wpg which is roughly where I was expecting to be.  However, I believe most people just take their wattage literally, and 48w of T5 is 48w in a wpg calculation, so I need to have between 60 and 80w of T5 to effectively grow the high-light species, what's the concensus opinion?

- Chance it on the light I've got at the moment? (48w T5 with Reflectors)
- Add one or both T8's to elevate the light levels (but in turn block and move the reflector on the T5's to do so, limiting the T5's effectiveness)? 

I think the big issue in this is the size of the reflector, if I could get a smaller one, I might be able to have the T5 under a correctly aimed reflector.

I drew a cross-section to illustrate the issue:





On a brighter note, my Hong-Kong el-cheapo ceramic diffusers have arrived and they look really nice, I'm going to hook one up in each corner under the koralia nano's so they should distribute the CO2 rich water around the tank nicely all being well.

Once I sort the lighting issue out, I'll think a bit more about what plants to choose,  

If you'd like to comment on the lighting issue, I started a thread in the lighting section here:

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4972#p54845

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (23 Feb 2009)

Ok, I've spoken with Ed Seeley who says he's happily got Glosso, HC and Hairgrass growing under the same lighting conditions with just the standard High-Lite system, so that's put my mind at ease.

I've had a chance to look at the glassware now I've got home, it all looks really good, I've not decided what I'm going to do with the Lily Pipe and inlet that are too small for my tank, I'm thinking of keeping them for my little cube tank and getting a small external filter for it when I eventually revamp that tank too! Otherwise failing that, there's always eBay again! 

Here's a pic of the bits from today's delivery:





I've ordered some hose and a Y connector (along with some 4dKH solution for the drop checker), I'm going to put one diffuser under each Koralia so that the CO2 gets distributed around evenly.  Both hose lengths and angles should be identical, so in theory the output of the two little diffusers should be fairly balanced.

Once that arrives, it's time to order the plants, should be sometime this week, so hopefully I'll be able to receive the plants by sometime next week and fill the tank.

Looking forward to the day I can post pics of the tank filled with plants, rather than just equipment! 

Matt


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## hellohefalump (24 Feb 2009)

Nice glassware.  When you put the CO2 line/hoses onto it, be VERY careful not to break the glass.  Ease it on REALLY gently and slowly.


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## mjenner (24 Feb 2009)

Thanks, I think I might try and heat up the hose a little bit so that it goes on a bit more easily.  I was already a bit worried about that bit anyway.

It would be more than a little annoying to have them travel all the way from Hong Kong to the UK and survive, and then end up breaking it connecting it! .


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## hellohefalump (24 Feb 2009)

lol yeah...
heating up the hose is a really good idea.  Get a jug of really hot water and just dangle the end in it for a little while.  That works well.  

Like I said, just do it really gently and don't try to force the hose on too hard.


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## JohnC (24 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Thanks, I think I might try and heat up the hose a little bit so that it goes on a bit more easily.  I was already a bit worried about that bit anyway.
> 
> It would be more than a little annoying to have them travel all the way from Hong Kong to the UK and survive, and then end up breaking it connecting it! .



If you end up breaking any of it give me a shout/mail. i've got a spare set from the same people i am not using just now.

Best Regards,

John


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## mjenner (24 Feb 2009)

Cheers John, fingers crossed I'm not having a clumsy day when I put it in!


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## mjenner (24 Feb 2009)

Glassware in the Tank
Well, the clear hose arrived and I've added the two diffusers in each back corner of the tank under the koralia powerheads.  Luckily the hose went on to the diffusers without any casualties and minimal cursing once it had the hot-water treatment.

I think they'll look pretty good there hopefully, definately a lot better than the old JBL diffuser which looked like a plastic bubble helter-skelter on the side of the tank! .

One problem I did encounter was that the suckers for the diffusers had got creased in transit, but I managed to fix them thanks to a handy hint I remembered.  To fix as creased sucker, you can often put them on a hot radiator for 30mins or so, preferably stuck as best they can to the metal so they soften when they're flat.  I did this with mine and it softened them up enough to get rid of the crease and they're sucking to the tank perfectly now! 

So all the equipment is in and waiting for action, but I still haven't looked at getting a plant list together yet as today was a bit hectic at work, I'll try and sort something out tomorrow and get the order in before Friday.

So far I'm pretty sure I'd like to include at least some of the following:

Foreground:

Glossostigma Elatinoides
Fore/Midground:

Hemianthus micranthemoides
Mid/Background:

Cryptocoryne Undulata
(A couple of other cryptocorynes)
Possibly Blyxa Japonica
Didiplis Diandra
Limnophila aromatica
Limnophila Hippuroides
Background:

Red Lotus Lilly (I might transplant it back from my cube tank, it used to reside in my main tank for a while)
Rotala Rotundifola

This is more like a wish list of cool plants I've seen rather than a proper planting list, so I'll have to have a bit more of a think...  but if anyone's got any ideas of good plants, let me know! 

Cheers,

Matt


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## Stu Worrall (25 Feb 2009)

sounds like a good list. are you putting in any hardscape or is it just going to be jungle?


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## mjenner (25 Feb 2009)

I'm thinking about a hard-scape, they're definately effective, but I can't decide on one at the moment.

I think I'll need to see some wood and rocks in my hands before I can decide, so I'll be popping to Maidenhead Aquatics at the weekend to take a look, but I don't think I can get any of that Redmoor wood there, only bog-wood which I had in my last setup which leached tannins into the water ALL the time, I also can't really afford to ship-stone from a mail-order company.

Worst-case I'll go jungle, I do like the Dutch style (albeit a bit more relaxed) so it's something to have a think about, with my size tank, and my impulsive purchases, it makes it hard to be disciplined into an exact style, look or planting scheme, different aquascapes have tended to just evolve for me over time in the tank in the past rather than planning it.


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## Tony Swinney (25 Feb 2009)

Hi Matt

The MAq store at Morden has some nice redmoor roots in stock, and the one at West Horsley have some decent size bits in their tanks too - all for sale.   

I havent found anyone locally who  stocks good rocks though   

Tony


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## mjenner (25 Feb 2009)

Hi Tony,

Yep West Horsley's my "local" mAQ store for most day to day things.

I didn't see much when I popped in there a couple of weeks ago (was looking at substrate prices, but they only had Red-Sea Florabase, which turns to claylike mud over time (I've got it in my cube tank)).

They've just revamped to add marines and they'd taken the baskets away from the middle in-between the tanks where they kept most of their aquascaping materials, they used to have a fairly impressive range, but all I could see on my quick look was some rather ropey looking bogwood.

They also used to have some nice stone, I'dve thought they'd have some more particularly as they're trying to push their nano cubes at the moment.

My other mAQ I tend to visit is over towards Weybridge, it's got a better range of planted equipment and it used to be my closest decent marine store when I kept marines.

Generally though, I tend to find most fish stores I've visited in Surrey woeful in terms of planted tank knowledge and equipment (mAQ are some of the best I know of here, but they've got a LONG way to go before I'd call them a really good source for planted tank equipment).

mAQ in West Horsley is generally fairly good for buying plants themselves (if a bit expensive,particularly in comparison to online), and they've got an interesting range of planted tank shrimp and nano tank fish at the moment.

Buying online has a lot going for it, but for some things,like aquascaping materials, in my opinion you need stores, if they had a better range, with some more choice in planted materials, I think I'd probably use them a lot more.

I've not investigated the Morden mAQ yet, I'll have to give it a try at the weekend, cheers for the advice. 

Matt


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## Tony Swinney (25 Feb 2009)

No problem Matt, good luck with the search.  I agree its a shame West Horseley have got rid of their stone baskets.  The larger redmoor roots are now kept in the large tanks which are at your feet level in the tropicals section, just ask and they'll fish them out for you.

The new manager Richard is gong to be pushing the planted side of things, with a display tank he's putting together, but he's a bit limited with the old weir tank system for plants that they're stuck with.  He can get Tropica in to order if you want it, and says they'll match others prices.

Tony


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## mjenner (25 Feb 2009)

Aha, cheers for that advice, I shall rummage through their larger tanks cupboards at the weekend!  

I was kind of hoping that they were going to do something more with planted tanks when I saw the shrimp tanks they'd just put in, but I was a bit disappointed by the lack of choice in substrates and aquascape.  I didn't know the management had changed recently, I guess it happened about when the Marines came back in?  It'll be interesting to see how things evolve over the next few months! 

I might take him up on placing a Tropica order if I find a couple of plants hard to get elsewhere, but for initial stocking at least, Java Plants looks to be much better value for money so far. But I do admit that Tropica plants are pretty much the best quality I've seen anywhere.

I wonder if Squires* has much in the way of rocks, I might take a look and see if they've got any decent tank-safe stuff there, you never know?.

Cheers,

Matt

*the garden centre where the mAQ is based in West Horsley in-case non-locals were wondering .


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## mjenner (25 Feb 2009)

Just seen this thread (http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1690&start=50) about Limnophilia Aromatica, I think I'm definately going to try and get this in my tank if I can, looks amazing!


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## LondonDragon (25 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Just seen this thread (http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1690&start=50) about Limnophilia Aromatica, I think I'm definately going to try and get this in my tank if I can, looks amazing!


I have this in my tank and its a great plant  I promissed my next cuttings to someone else so if you haven't got any in 2-3 weeks time send me a PM and I will send you some.  

Here a photo taken a few minutes ago:


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## Tony Swinney (25 Feb 2009)

Lovely plant LD   

I was in the "shoots" garden centre in Cobham this afternoon.  Their aquatic centre is generally fairly average, and less than average on the planted side of things.  However as I left, 3 boxes of new Aquafleur plants were delivered - I had a sneak peak and they look really good - lovely and fresh !  They'll be on display by tomorrow lunchtime so I might pop along and have a look - only 5 mins off the A3 if your heading down this way Matt.


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## JohnC (26 Feb 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Just seen this thread (http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1690&start=50) about Limnophilia Aromatica, I think I'm definately going to try and get this in my tank if I can, looks amazing!



Hi,

This was the best stem plant i had (when i had stems) in an old scape. Lovely colour when it gets near the light. I've just read the first page of that link, i never knew i could have just eaten mine rather then give it away!   

Best Regards,

John


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## mjenner (26 Feb 2009)

Wow cheers Paulo, I'll definately take you up on that if I haven't managed to get it with my plant order! 

Speaking of which, I'm still planning, I haven't really had much time to think, let alone actually sit down and look at pics of plants, wedding stuff has reared it's head which needed planning first, and whilst I can sometimes post at work in downtime whilst waiting for stuff to run (thanks to the wonders of notepad for composing in), it's a bit more obvious looking at pics of plants. 

Cheers Tony, but I won't be heading that way till Sat, I'll pop in on the way past though if they've got any left! 

I'm going to look at plants tonight and get a better list together.

Cheers Guys


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## mjenner (28 Feb 2009)

Hardscaping Connundrums

Well, as promised, I've been taking a look at hardscaping my tank.  I managed to get some wood from mAQ in West Horsley, they were fairly helpful, although they didn't have much wood in, I did get a really nice piece, but I had size issues, and it's a little bit bigger than I thought it was in the shop  but I did manage to get it to fit in the tank:





This is a photo with it in, with some rocks and a bit of sculpting of the substrate.  It's still jutting a bit too far to the front I think, but Ithink there's potential there somewhere.  I think I might need to do a bit of chopping about to get it to fit properly.

Looking from the top, I can see about 10cm of wood that I think I could safely remove to allow me to push it back a bit:





Views from the left and right:





An angled view:





I'm also thinking the biggest branch is too long as well, I might cut that off somehow and mount it in the rockpile/stump so that that section looks a bit denser?  I've set it up with it like you see it for now and I'm just living with it for a little bit to get a feel for how I'll like it.

I also bought some sand, I'm thinking about having sand at the very front-right, tapering off towards the left (I won't put it in till I'm sure I'm going to have it, as it'll be a devil to get out cleanly), then I can grow either HC or glosso towards the sand in a finer carpet, and build up to some Pogostemon Helefri (I think I've typed it right?) in around the rock cluster and roots, then have some taller bushy stem plants behind, but I think the idea might have changed a bit from my earlier jungle-type idea, at least initially .

I think it's true that once you get some wood/rocks in there you start to rethink what plants you're planning on putting in, I kind of like the island of rocks/roots idea, but I just need to work out how I can make it work with my wood and then go through the left a bit/right a bit thing that most people do on here .

Anyway, I've got to go to out to dinner now, if you've got any comments/advice/criticism, I'd love your input if you've got five minutes to spare this evening.

Cheers,

Matt


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## Jack middleton (28 Feb 2009)

im really interested in what you have done for the lighting, now you have the two juwel light bars, what have you done about flaps? can you post pics?


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## StevenA (28 Feb 2009)

Love the wood on the left there, it looks great, but personally I would'nt bother about the rocks on the right    They just don't look right to me. Just my opinion


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## mjenner (28 Feb 2009)

Jack middleton said:
			
		

> im really interested in what you have done for the lighting, now you have the two juwel light bars, what have you done about flaps? can you post pics?



Hi Jack,

I've only got the one lighting bar, I swapped the T8 Lighting bar that came with my tank for a T5 High-Lite lighting bar.  The flaps fit exactly on the new lighting bar as it's a drop-in replacement.  I'dve liked to have got a luminaire but for the sake of keeping things civil at home, my Fiancee didn't want the light spilling out of the top of the tank or the sound of water, so I had to go for an option that left the top of the tank as it was before.

It's not the cheapest, or some would say best option, but I think it should hopefully allow me to grow most types of plants without too much trouble (providing I keep up with the CO2 and maintain a high enough flow rate).

Hope that helps,

Cheers, 

Matt


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## mjenner (28 Feb 2009)

Tourney said:
			
		

> Love the wood on the left there, it looks great, but personally I would'nt bother about the rocks on the right    They just don't look right to me. Just my opinion



Cheers Tourney,

I think you might have something there about the rocks.  But I'm a little worried that if I don't have something that side it'll start to look a little too lopsided?  I know some people like their aquascapes to go be heavier one side than the other, but I think it might look a little wrong? Anyway, I'll have a play tomorrow and see.

I think I will take off that 10cm bit at the back of the root though as the front of the root is only about 5cm from the front glass, at least then it might not look quite so imposing?

Any thoughts on the sand at the front?  Good idea or bad?

I might photoshop one of the pics and add some sand in tomorrow to see what people think..

Cheers,

Matt


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## LondonDragon (1 Mar 2009)

you can actually add a tube to each flap if you like and make it a total of 4, i did this in my juwel before i got the luminaire


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## Tony Swinney (1 Mar 2009)

Hi Matt

Pleased you got a bit of wood you like - as you say they dont have a huge amount of redmoor, but they do tend to have a few really nice pieces.

I had a similar issue a while back, with a bit of redmoor which would only just fit in the tank.  Its very limiting as you cant move it around so much.  I think chopping some of the 'trunk' away is a good idea, it'll give you more freedom to play around, but I'd do it in stages - you can't stick it back on   

At the minute I find the main branch cuts the tank in half diagonally a bit much, but once you make it a bit smaller you'll be able to address that.  

I like the sand idea, moving the right hand rocks out of the way, maybe replacing them with smaller ones on the sand 'shoreline'.  You could have the bulk of the scape and plants over on the left (and your heater   ), with a more open space on the right for the fish to swim in - what fish are you having ?

Good luck with it

Tony   (all that said, I'm a complete novice so feel free to ignore it   )


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## mjenner (1 Mar 2009)

Tonser said:
			
		

> you can't stick it back on


 Heh, true! 

The guy in the shop didn't know what I was talking about when I mentioned redmoor wood, this was JBL Mangrove Wood, but I noticed that they had a variety of different types of wood in there under the same brand name, one of which looked suspiciously similar to redmoor wood, and a decidedly different texture to my old bogwood, so I thought I'd give it a go.

The diagonal of the main branch is a little distracting for me too, it reaches right into the right-hand powerhead!

Taking 10cm off the back won't address this though, that will only allow me to push the whole root back a bit.  I might have to take slightly more drastic measures and cut some off the main right-hand branch, I'm thinking of adding some moss to the branch so it should (in theory) hide the cut, and I'll sand it off to smooth it out a bit too.

I'm thinking of making the cut just after it curves towards the horizontal, possibly 5-6cm afterward, so that the main branch would finish pretty much over where the rocks are now.  Once I do that, I'll also have to trim the other large shoot that aims up and towards the front of the tank to bring it back into perspective.

|'ll do a mockup in GIMP (free-photoshop) and see what everyone thinks before making the cuts.

I'm not too worried you're not an expert, just bouncing ideas off like-minded people is good, as much as my Fiancee loves my tank, she can't envisage what I'm aiming for at the present moment in time, she says that she trusts me, but that it looks more like a good home for her Leopard Gecko rather than my fish!   

That said, I'm more than happy for other points of view, so anyone else can feel free to chip in their comments! 

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (1 Mar 2009)

Inspiration and Ideas (AKA: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery)

When I got the wood, I knew that the idea reminded me of a few of my favourite tanks, I thought I'd post the links to these pages so that people knew where I'm coming from with my ideas:

David Airey's creation, really nice looking, but maybe a little too minimalist for me at present, I'm not sure I'm quite disciplined enough to maintain a limited number of species!   This is where I got the idea for the hardscape though:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/readers_tank.php?upload=1319

Peter Kirwan's 2007 AGA entry:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2007.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=198

More relaxed, but a kind of similar look to Peter's entry, still only green though, and possibly hard to pull off.

Finally, Buccarra Emanuelle's 2007 AGA entry:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2007.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=1&id=77

I know that this is a lot livelier than the other two, but it's one that I've come back to time and again for ideas and it was the initial inspiration for the current tank revamp.

It's got a lot of the elements I like, the sand-river element, the bed of low-growing plants and the jungly look that I also like, but it was in a much larger tank, so I'm not sure if I have the space to pull something like this off.  I also want some where for Pogostemon Helefri in the tank, as I think they look really nice, could possibly add them at the transition between the low-growing plants and the jungly area at the back?  I'm also a bit worried that the wood I've got is a bit too large to pull off something like Buccarra's design in my tank.  It's also the only tank I think I might be able to get away with adding Limnophilia Aromatica to .


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## mjenner (1 Mar 2009)

The Patient is Out of Surgery

Well, after looking at the root stump all day I finally decided it did need a trim, I've taken roughly 5cm off the back of the root (as-per the green line on my earlier top-down pic), and I also shortened the two longest branches in as natural a manner as I could (cutting and splitting the wood to make it try and look like a natural break), after I've got some fern/moss on them they should look ok I think? 

I've taken the rocks on the right away, and shifted the root to the right a bit, it looks a bit more balanced now.

I've taken some pics, but due to my PC chkdisking for over half the day (it's not very well, writing this from my fiancee's laptop at the moment) I've not been able to prep and upload them, I'll try and put them up tomorrow at some point, hopefully people will like my new layout (fingers crossed, but it's not too different from the old one ).

Once we're happy with the hardscape, I've just got to finalise my plant list for this layout now, then I can FINALLY put the water back in (feels like it's been so long since I've had water in the tank! ).

Comments and criticism welcome as always.

Cheers,

Matt


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## Tony Swinney (2 Mar 2009)

Sounds good Matt, look forward to the pics.

Tony


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Post-Surgery - Tank Hardscape Pics (take 2)

Well, here's my latest re-hash of the hardscape with the trimming of the wood, I've also shifted the wood right slightly to move it more towards the focal point to make it a little more balanced and I've got rid of the large rocks on the right:













Comments and Criticism welcome...

Cheers,

Matt


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## samc (2 Mar 2009)

i think it looks better without the rocks on the right as they draw your eyes towards them rather than the nice wood. i can imagine it turning out to be a nice tank


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## Thomas McMillan (2 Mar 2009)

That hardscape looks great, nice one!


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## Stu Worrall (2 Mar 2009)

i think that looks great, all the better for the chop.  what plants are you planning to put in the tank? going for moss on the wood?


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Cheers Sam,

I've removed the large clump of rocks to the right (as was visible in my first set of photos prior to pruning the wood), but I was still planning on having a few smaller rocks leading down to the sandy area front-right (I haven't put the sand in yet as I'm still fine-tuning the layout first, once the sand is in it'll be harder to change things about).

The idea with the rocks to the right of the wood in the bare patch was to lead the eye up from the sandy corner, up to the wood and connect the two areas, otherwise you've got the wood, then you've got the sandy patch in the front-right and a plain bank area inbetween.  Once the plants grow up around the rocks they should be a bit less pronounced anyway.

If you mean the rocks around the base of the root, well, I tried it without but it looks a bit like the root has just been plonked there rather than being part of the substrate bank.  But I guess you can use the same argument that I just used for the smaller rocks on the right, once the plants grow up, it might look better?

I might reduce or fiddle about with the rocks on the right of the root directly as they do look a little blocky, but I'm not sure if I can get a better effect there.

I'll have another tweak when I get home, but I think we're getting pretty close to finalised hardscape.

Thanks for the input,

Matt


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> That hardscape looks great, nice one!



Cheers Thomas! 



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> i think that looks great, all the better for the chop.  what plants are you planning to put in the tank? going for moss on the wood?



Yep, I think I might put some moss on the wood, but I think Java Fern might look pretty effective as well as-per David Airey's tank design (which my Missus approves of and we seem to be leaning towards something similar at present).

I might try a combination of both ideas, I do really like some of the mosses but I think seeing the structure of the wood as well might look effective?

I think we might modify my interpretation of his Design by possibly including a few more stem plants at the back behind the wood, the final planting is still evolving at present in my head, the additional stem plants might be added later once I see how it's growing.

So far I think the plants I think I'd like to include (that suit the 'scape) are:

- Hemicanthus Calichtroides "Cuba" (foreground)
- Pogostemnon Helefri (foreground closer to the roots)
- Java Fern 'Narrow' (on the roots and in the root pile)
- Possibly some other mosses on the wood (need to investigate options)
-  Hemianthus micranthemoides, Rotala rotundifolia or some other low-ish green bushy stem plant. (mid-back on the right to behind the wood pile)
- Echinodorus tenellus (mid, maybe used sparingly around the base of roots)
- Some form of bushy stem plants behind the wood pile.

I'd love Limnophilia Aromatica, but I'm not sure it'd fit in this scape, it might devolve/evolve (depending on your POV) into a jungle scape, but I think I'll try and be a bit disciplined at least initially .

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Possible Use of More Moss in Aquascape

After Stu's comments about using Moss on wood, I've been doing some thinking and after I just saw how Dan Crawford's used moss in this Aquascape on branches/roots in this aquascape (http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/featured_aquascaper/Dan_Crawford.html), after seeing this I'm thinking I might try to use more moss on my roots! 

On the page, there's a closeup of some moss with a shrimp, I'm not sure of the moss name but I like the way it's almost got little leaves, it looks really nice, I'll have to do some more hunting about and find it's name tonight.


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## LondonDragon (2 Mar 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> On the page, there's a closeup of some moss with a shrimp, I'm not sure of the moss name but I like the way it's almost got little leaves, it looks really nice, I'll have to do some more hunting about and find it's name tonight.


Its Fissidens Fontanus, I have actually sent a lot of this to members over the last couple of weeks, so it will take sometime to grow back again otherwise I would send you some, have a look in my journal for some photos, later pages.


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Cheers Paulo, I'm looking forward to the day I'll be able to be so kind to others, when I had my old setup, I was literally throwing away tons of plants every month or so as I had noone else who'd like them.  It'll be nice to pass them on to good homes (providing I can keep them Algae free! ).

I think I'm pretty much there with the plants I want, I've just got to work out the cheapest supplier that has all the plants I need as I'll want to get them all at once before filling the tank so I can plant in one sitting.  

My local mAQ will order from Tropica but I need to work out if their costs are a rip-off or not, it's a shame you can't order from Tropica directly and cut out the middle-man and some of the cost but I don't think they'll deal with the piddling quantities I need! 

I'll have a bit more of a think and try and draft up a list of prices for the plants at the various suppliers.


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## Tony Swinney (2 Mar 2009)

Hi Matt

The wood looks great now !

Rich at MAq has told me the same re Tropica - maybe we should order together for more discount !!!

Having said that, the Aquafleur plants I got at Shoots last week looks good, quite big plants in the pots, and 5 for Â£12     They wont order in specially for you, but Richard at AE is stocking AquaFleur now.

Cheers

Tony


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## mjenner (2 Mar 2009)

Thanks Tony, I'm a lot happier with it now, and I'm glad it looks (at least slightly) convincingly natural, it was worth the cursing and the bloodshed in the end! (cut myself with a screwdriver a bit whilst trying to force a split to break open to make a more convincing natural cut in the root, probably a bit of a silly thing to do but it kind-of worked. Still, you're supposed to suffer for your art aren't you?   )

Nice plants btw .

Hmm, I wonder how large the order would have to be to get a discount?   I popped into Shoots on Saturday, there certainly were a lot of plants in but I didn't see enough that I would use in this scape I think?  I'll look at pricing an order with mAQ tonight/tomorrow and look at trying to match a similar order with several online suppliers.

If you're serious about getting a bulk order together I'll PM you once I've done the sums if it all adds up for me. I won't be able to order till this Sat at the earliest though, as they wanted me to be in the shop to order and I couldn't do it over the phone. Unfortunately, West Horsley's a bit too far to go in my lunchbreak seeing as I work up in London! )

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (3 Mar 2009)

Initial Plant Order

Well, I decided to go ahead with a plant order from Java Plants last night, I priced up what I thought I'd need from Tropica with mAQ's price list and with AE and GreenMachine, all WAY too pricey...  I ended up going with Java Plants, they did well with my last order, here's hoping they do just as well this time!  They're also cheap enough that I could actually order a little extra just in case and buy a few plants to see how they look (any leftovers will be going on the swaps page I think if my cube tank doesn't need them).  I'm still going to have to buy my HC elsewhere, and the Pogostemnon 'Helefri' as I think Pogo is a Tropica only plant and HC seems to be sold out everywhere! 

I've ordered two 'nets' of HC from Java plants, we'll see what state it's in when I get it, but I think I'll probably have to order some HC to bolster it up and Pogo from Tropica via mAQ, but at least it brings that order to a more manageable cost.

My Plant list so far looks like:


Small Helzine (think this is Hemianthus micranthemoides)
Crypt Wendtii (Cryptocoryne Wendtii)
Crypt Becketii (Cryptocoryne Becketii)
Crypt Nevillii (Cryptocoryne Willisii)
Ambulia Aquatica (Limnophila Sessiliflora)
Rorippa Aquatica
Didiplis Diandra
Micranthemum Umbrosum
Hairgrass (Eleocharis Vivipara)
Java Fern (Microsorium Pteropus)
Hemianthus Calitrichoedes

I also get a free moss-ball (which I don't think really belongs in this scape, so I'll try it in the cube or it'll go in the swap section  )

I think I'll plant this, get it up and running then add any extras as required (I still need to investigate mosses as Java Plants didn't have a very good selection).


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## a1Matt (6 Mar 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> I also get a free moss-ball (which I don't think really belongs in this scape, so I'll try it in the cube or it'll go in the swap section  )
> 
> I think I'll plant this, get it up and running then add any extras as required (I still need to investigate mosses as Java Plants didn't have a very good selection).



I'd post it up in the swap section and ask to exchange it for some moss 
There are lots of people in this forum with mosses so I do not think you will have any problem swapping for some once your other plants have grown in and you get around to taking trimmings...


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## mjenner (8 Mar 2009)

Yep, that's a good plan, but I'm not sure if anyone would find a use for a moss-ball, I imagine it'd look out of place anywhere (at least in any of the tanks I've seen they've looked pretty odd) 

I think at least some of the cuttings will be going to refurbish my small cube tank first once the main tank is back up and running but they'll definately be finding their way to the swaps section once I have enough worth swapping 

Getting empty-tank fever at the moment, Java are taking forever to send my plants....  Still the wait is almost (hopefully) over now...


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## mjenner (13 Mar 2009)

Worried About Plant Delivery

Well, I haven't posted on here for a while, this being largely due to twiddling my thumbs waiting for my plants to arrive, by the timeline on Java-Plants website, they should have been dispatched on Wednesday, the timeline goes something like this:

03/03/09 - Plants Ordered
05/03/09 - Java-Plants fax order to supplier in Singapore (this occurs weekly)
08/03/09 - Singapore Supplier Dispatches Plants to UK
09/03/09 - Plants arrive in UK (Manchester and are Collected)
10-11/03/09 - Plants are sorted and packed for delivery.
12/03/09 - Last Plants Dispatched for the week.

So (providing my order was fulfilled this week, should be, they took my money!) it should (in theory) be arriving yesterday (which it didn't) or today, or worst case, Saturday... when no-one's in the office, so I'll come in to a nice box of dead plants on Monday.

It doesn't help that at the moment, my company has some insane security screening thing on all post this week (for a number of reasons) so I'm having to keep checking with the post-room and security and I've got everyone looking for a box with "Java" and my name written on it.

Well, I'll know in about 45mins (16:30), the time the Post-Room receives the post... fingers crossed! 

Incidentally, I've also ordered a cheap dosing pump (rinse-aid dispenser for a commercial dishwasher) and I've bought the dry ferts required, still waiting on the Potassium Sorbate, but I've got the Vitamin C, so I'll be taking Paulo up on his earlier offer of help with getting the EI dosing right for my tank.

Well, that is if I ever recieve these bl**dy plants! 

Bye for now,

Matt


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## George Farmer (13 Mar 2009)

Healthy plants should be ok for a good few days if they're packed well. 

I had a large qty. of Tropica pots held in my garage for 2 weeks until I planted them in Matt Clarke's tank.  They looked new when I unpacked them.


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## steve2tanks (13 Mar 2009)

Im in the same situation,ordered plants last week but havent got them  

Have you tried emailing them as im going too,ill let you know what the reply is when i get one


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## mjenner (13 Mar 2009)

Hi Steve, 

I expected it to take two weeks due to Java-plant's shipping cycle, it ensures you get good quality plants, but it's not too quick.

I called Java-Plants at about 5ish after I couldn't find the post-boy, they were really helpful and confirmed that the order was dispatched Wednesday morning, so it should have got to me by today or tomorrow at the latest.

As expected (I didn't really feel like luck was on my side today) the plants weren't there at our department in-tray, nor at reception (where larger parcels are left), and the post-room boy wasn't anywhere to be found (due to the security problems, there might be a backlog in the post-room).  I tried my best to catch him (chasing round the building on a wild goose chase) but no luck.

This raised another issue, I don't work on a Saturday!   However, the security guard is working tomorrow and he's gone above and beyond the call of duty and promised to check the post and call me if it does turn up tomorrow!

However, the worst-case is that if they were received today but not processed, they're sitting in the post-room.

So, I'm in the unusual state of crossing everything hoping that the post is late for once! If I the call tomorrow I'll have to drive up to London to collect it but hopefully some of the plants will be ok! 

Cheers for the advice George, 

I've kept crypts and Amazon Swords out of the water for a while bagged too (for a few days after I moved) and they were fine, I'm a little worried about the HC and the stem plants though as from memory of my last order, they didn't travel too well (most made it but some went a bit mushy).

Although I'm always a bit of a worrier about live deliveries (plants or livestock) I guess I'm most miffed as I was hoping to have spent a nice evening finally planting the tank up and getting it looking really nice  (which was just what I needed after the week I've had at work! ).

Oh well, fingers crossed for tomorrow eh? 

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (17 Mar 2009)

The Mystery of the Missing Plants (Solved)

Well after worrying that my plants order hadn't made it through the bowels of my office mail system, it turns out it never even got that far! 

I received this email yesterday evening:



> Dear Matt
> 
> Sorry in the delay getting back to you on your order,  but we have had to send this e-mail to 23 other customers as well,
> 
> ...



I can only assume Steve was one of the others affected by this mail-pilferage... (although what the average mail-thief is going to do with several hundred pounds worth of plants I don't know... eat them? )

Ah well, I'm a little bit peeved that I haven't got my plants still, but I'm kind of relieved that they've not gone missing in my office somewhere (this shouldn't happen now the security restrictions have gone as things have returned to normal again).

On the plus side... Â£10 worth of free plants! I wonder if they'll start stocking Pogo? 

While I'm waiting, I'm in the process of wiring up my dosing pump (it came with bare wires, just need some mains cable, a soldering iron and some heat-shrink tubing to do a proper job, probably do this at the weekend), I've also got all the ingredients for the all-in-one mix now, just need to work out what my initial mix needs to dose when I get my plants.

As well as this I'm going to try and build a shower-head to hozelock adapter for easier tank filling, so should be enough to keep me busy! 

Cheers,

Matt


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## Tony Swinney (17 Mar 2009)

Good news I guess Matt, though I'm sure youre a bit gutted !  At least you'll get some freebies.

Hope the new plants turn up safe, and the DIY bits go well.

Cheers

Tony


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## mjenner (25 Mar 2009)

The Operation was a Success - 25/03/2009

Just a quick entry today, the plants finally arrived last night (in really good shape) and I spent from 8pm-1:30am putting them in and filling up the tank (didn't get my water-changer built in time, it's a tedious business with buckets!).  Looks like I got the order about right in size, although I actually think I overdid it on the HC!  

As a result I've got one mat of HC (approx 10cm2) that'll be going in the swap section for some moss once I let it recover from the journey in my tank for a bit.

About 50% of the way through filling the tank, I did have a minor catastrophe as the wood had dried more than I thought and decided to float, taking most of my plants with it, so I had to try and hold it down with one hand, balance a plate on it (was using it to deflect the surge from the buckets of water), then rush to my leftover rocks for a counterweight and try and re-plant the scape.

It's now got a massive stone on top, and this'll probably remain that way for a week or two until I'm sure it's properly soaked again.

Equipment-wise, everything from the old setup still works, the new Koralia Nano's are really good and the flow looks great (you can see the flow crossing from each corner and the flow from the spray bar at the back tumbling it round across the top and down the front of the glass to the HC and pogo at the front.

I cranked the CO2 up as there's no fish in there at the moment (drop-checker showing a very yellowy-green at present) and the plants responded by pearling nicely this morning (I didn't count all the bubbles last night as those were "fake" pearling from the fill-up).

I still need to adjust the lighting period from my original setup (need to reduce the duration a bit), and I need to put the CO2 back on a timer along with the Koralias but I was rather tired by this point and decided sleep was a good idea seeing as I needed to be up at 6am!

This morning, still looking good, it's still a little hazy but clearing, I've had a few bits of plant uproot themselves in the flow, and I think this might be a continuing theme for a few days until things start to root and I've dosed 5mm of TPN+ (proper stuff initially, I'm going to do my DIY mix as soon as I can get more accurate scales (eBay I think)).

Not looking forward to the water changes this week, but it'll be worth it I hope! 

Took some pics and I'll try and upload them tonight once I get a chance to process the RAW files.

Bye for now,

Matt


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## Tony Swinney (25 Mar 2009)

^^^ thats a "quick entry"  !!??!!    

Good stuff Matt, pleased the plants finally arrived OK.  Look forward to seeing the pics.

Tony


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## mjenner (25 Mar 2009)

Tonser said:
			
		

> ^^^ thats a "quick entry"  !!??!!



Weelllll, it started to be a quick entry, then I fleshed it out a bit (it is a journal after all... ) it's just a bit of a brain-dump really 

The tank might not be quite up to your exacting standards (liking the Nano btw!) after the rapid second un-planned replant some things have just been put back in as best as I could at the time, I'll be redoing that a bit over the next week.

Will try and post the pics tonight! 

Matt


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## John Starkey (25 Mar 2009)

Hi 

lets have some pics of these plants and the setup   

regards john.


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

The Setup - 24/03/2009

Hi Guys,

As promised, sorry it's a bit later than expected, my fiancÃ©e had the lurgy so I had to look after her, then do a water change and re-plant the loose stems, but finally, after much waiting for plant orders to arrive over the last few weeks, here are all the details of my tank setup that I undertook last night.

Plant List and Kit

From Java-Plants:

20 x  Small Helzine
5 x 	Crypt Wendtii
10 x 	Crypt Becketii
5 x 	Ambulia Aquatica
5 x 	Rorippa Aquatica
10 x 	Didiplis Diandra
5 x 	Crypt Nevillii
10 x 	Micranthemum Umbrosum
25 x 	Hairgrass
20 x 	Java Fern
2 x   Hemicanthus Calichtroides Mats

From Aqua Essentials:

3 x   Aquafleur Pogostemnon Helefri
3 x   Aquafleur Hemicanthus Calichtroides

I also got some tweezers after reading that they'd be helpful planting and looking at tropica's very helpful planting video on their website and seeing just how necessary they'd be.  As I was planting dry, other essentials for the planting were a water spray bottle for keeping the plants damp and a towel to mop up spills as I filled the tank.

The Planting

And, here's the bare tank with the hard-scape:






I wanted to create a carpet-effect over the right-hand foreground with sand in the front right corner, the wood would have a lot of Java Fern, Crypts would be around the base of the root and some larger plant behind the root.  I also wanted to try and experiment with hairgrass as a carpet, this I decided to do in the front-left corner, so first I added the sand:





Next, the Java Fern, this I wedged in as I wasn't sure about it's placement just yet:





Then after spraying the fern down, I started on the Ambulia Aquatica and the Micranthemum Umbrosum:





This is when I realised that it might have been better to do the foreground first, when I started to put in the stem plants that were going to come in front of the Micranthemum Umbrosum, the Didiplis Diandra and Small Helzine.  The stems had been laid down, but I had to move them to get a space to plant.  After planting these, the HC, the pogo and the crypts the tank was planted:





I ended up with a little surplus, one Rorippa Aquatica has gone in my cube along with some of the HC sheet and one Pogo. The second HC sheet is unused and is currently sitting on my sand-patch recovering from it's ordeal from it's journey (that'll be put on the for sale/swap section later).

The Filling
So finally, the filling!  At this point it was starting to get late, so there aren't any photos of this bit, I placed a side-plate on the sand and a little on the HC in the corner, then I balanced a round bowl on that and aimed the flow into the bowl, the shape caused the eddys to deflect upwards and nothing got disturbed!

I got to about half full when a minor disaster struck, the wood had been waiting for so long that it'd started to dry out and it started to lift from the substrate... Argh!  I grabbed a large rock and rushed back to weigh it down, this worked but it was a little late and I had to replant all the fern and many crypts again as they'd been pushed free by the escaping tree-root.

Crisis averted I continued to fill the tank, primed the filter (which has been 2/3rds filled with Sintered Glass Eheim media) and started the Koralias, so much flow! From watching the CO2 bubbles I think the flow is somewhat like this pic:





The (initially) Finished Tank
Here's a pic of the tank with all it's plants in:





Lighting, CO2 and Ferts

Lighting was on a 12h day initially, but I've adjusted it to 10h day as per the tutorial, 11:30-21:30 with a 1hr period from 7am-8am to allow me to feed the fish, fertilise the tank and check it before I go to work.

CO2 comes from a JBL Profi 2, split to two ceramic CO2 diffusers below both hydor koralia pumps.  I'm currently adding surplus CO2 to give the plants a bit more of a nice environment and to let them grow as quickly as possible before I add fish in.  Once I get my bubble checker in the line, I'll start to dial the CO2 back a bit so that it's nicely lime-green coloured.  The CO2 is on a solenoid and comes on 30mins before lights on and switches off 30mins before lights off.

Fertilization is at the moment done with TPN+ (5ml daily as-per tutorial article) but I'll be moving to DIY TPN+ (cheers Paulo for the advice regarding measurement) and a dosing pump in the near-future (when I get the pump wired up, and I can get some accurate scales to measure the chemicals out).

Currently doing daily water changes of 50% for the next week.

Here's a few more pics of the tank:




Dropchecker Yellow




Pearling HC

Finally, a pic from tonight showing the water is beginning to clear:





Hope you like the update, I'll keep you updated as to my progress and keep you apprised as to any algae situation if/when it occurs.  

I'm not too sure about the Java Fern, it looks too big in the tank, might replace it with the narrow variety later on, and I'd like to try some christmas moss on the wood at some point.  The big rock on the wood will be removed as soon as I think the wood's soaked enough to avoid it floating again.

I'm still learning, so if you think I've done anything wrong or you know of any handy hints please feel free to let me know.

Cheers,

Matt


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## Tony Swinney (26 Mar 2009)

Looks great to me Matt   

I'd tend to agree about the java fern looking big, but once the rest of the stems and crypts have grown in it'll fit in better. 

Tony


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2009)

Brilliant write up Matt.  That wood composition is great!  I wish Redmoor wasn't so floaty


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## steve2tanks (26 Mar 2009)

Yeh i got that email as well mate about the plants    Mine turned up yesturday but didnt recieve the free Â£10 worth of plants i ordered but just glad i got my order that i paid for  

It looks like a good start you've got there  

Steve


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

Cheers SteveUK and Steve2Tanks,

I think it's looking ok so far, I think I'll need to do some tweaking depending on how the stems grow on the right, and I'm not entirely happy with the Java Fern still, although the fiancÃ©e loves it.

Just spending all my time working on waterchanges at the moment and chasing loose stems around trying to replant them, I wonder how long it'll take before that'll stop and they put down roots?  I think I'll save my Â£10 voucher for when I redo the nano cube eventually (might put that on another journal at some point maybe) or if the hairgrass doesn't work out and I need to replant that corner with HC, some more pogo or some other foreground plant.

The only slightly pressing issue is that the Y connector on the CO2 hose isn't working quite right, the flow is tending to go to the right-hand diffuser, this was a known risk as gas will always try and follow the easiest path but I wasn't expecting quite such an imbalance as the angles and tube length are similar for both diffusers.

I might have to get a couple of valves for both lines so that I can add resistance to one line to balance the flow?

Cheers,

Matt


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2009)

I'm having the same problem with my Y connector too.  I have a couple of needle valves I could use, but it's only a temporary setup so I haven't bothered.  I put it down to differing lengths of CO2 tubing, but I guess it could also be down to the quality of the ceramic diffuser, one being a little less dense or something?


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## a1Matt (26 Mar 2009)

I would definitely put a valve on each line.  Afaik it is the only way that you can control what is going where.  Given the inmportance of stable CO2 I think that having that control is near enough essential.

The tanks looking good by the way :thumbs up smiley here:


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I guess it could also be down to the quality of the ceramic diffuser, one being a little less dense or something?



Yep, I'm inclined to believe it's down to the differing quality of the diffuser too, the right-hand one definitely produces larger bubbles than the left.  Cheers Matt, I'll look into getting a couple of needle-valves for the hose.

Currently it's not too big a problem, I'm overdosing CO2 as I've only got plants in there so there will be enough for them, but when I decide it's ready for livestock I'll have to make sure it's balanced as I won't be able to dose in such quantities with my Harlequins back in there.


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2009)

I bought my needle valves from AquaticMagic (eBay).  I seem to remember them costing about Â£6 each but with the exchange rates as they are that might be different...


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## aaronnorth (26 Mar 2009)

looks great, excellent hardscape positioning too


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

Cheers Aaron!  Well, that's the needle valves ordered, Aquatic Magic, Â£6.51 each, not too bad looking at the quality of them.  I was VERY tempted to get some mosses at the same time, but I resisted for now, I'd better let it all grow it a bit! 

Hopefully they'll arrive in a few days.

Matt


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2009)

i too agree the positioning of the hardscape is great. what plants are right behind the wood?  to the left


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> i too agree the positioning of the hardscape is great. what plants are right behind the wood?  to the left



To the left of the Ambulia Aquatica (big bushy plant at the back right behind the root)?  That's a couple of Crypts (Nevilii and Wenditii I think?) and a stray Java Fern leaf.

They're right next to the filter inlet and lefthand CO2 diffuser.  They're basically holding there for now but I may move them again when I redo my nano-cube.  I bought them to fill in and I quite like crypts, but they might not look quite right for the tank as it grows I think.  I think there will be a period of growth, then I'll probably tweak and give it a bit of a facelift .


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## Nick16 (26 Mar 2009)

so 20 java fern only did that tiny amount? for the stuff you have in your tank i would expect 2 or 3 rhizomes at the most not 20!!!


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

Hi Nick,

Yeah, I expected something like 3-5 leaves per rhizome but most of them are individual leaves with the tiniest bit of rhizome on them 

The thing that's a bit misleading is that they don't measure in bunches, but in stems, they order in lots of 5 though so it's not totally bad but it does mean I probably wouldn't order Java Fern from them again due to the way they've prepped it for shipping.

The HC mats were also very hard to split apart for planting and some bits were dead and mushy, only having one layer of wire mesh would have made it much easier, or failing that, just by itself! Good value for money quantity-wise though.

That said, the crypts are really nice and all the stems were healthy.

Matt


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## mjenner (26 Mar 2009)

Day Two - Yet More Water Changes

Nothing too much to report, the tank is algae free so far (but it's only been 2 days), everything's pearling away, but the HC's looking a little ropey, some pieces aren't very well attached to the bottom.  There's a lot of dead HC on there, but there are some shoots that are green and pearling, I'm thinking of leaving it as it is until the live bits get dug into the gravel properly then I can cut away the dead matter?

Lost a couple of crypt leaves too, but that's to be expected after the trip as they tend not to like being moved, so going well so far, no sign of life in the hairgrass yet, but that's been given quite a severe trim while planting, so I think that'll be a while off yet.

Matt


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## jay (26 Mar 2009)

The hardscape is real nice, and good planting.
Looks very tasty (don't worry, i wont eat it)


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## mjenner (19 Apr 2009)

Tank Update - A Couple of Weeks Along

Well, it's all up and running, I've been dosing CO2 enough to maintain a yellow dropchecker whilst the plants settle in, I've recieved the needle-valves for each diffuser and I've now been able to balance the flow better between them.

Algae has been relatively low until earlier last week, I experienced a bout of first Diatom on the sand, then a little BGA on the foreground plants and the HC, I did a couple of water changes but due to Wedding planning duties I haven't been able to give the tank quite as much care and attention as I would like, but it's been fertilised with TPN+ (6ml per day, then 8ml and more recently I've moved up to 10ml as the plants looked like they needed a little more and the plant mass has increased).

I've pruned the Ambulia Aquatica twice now as it's gone crazy, the first pruning allowed me to increase the size of the bush behind the wood and it looked pretty good but it's doubled in size again! I think I might have some cuttings for anyone who'd like them soon?  The Micranthemum Umbrosum hasn't done so well, it's gone a little yellow and has a tendency to uproot, and fall apart, I kept replanting the stems regularly but they kept popping out again.

The Didiplis Diandra has metamorphosed into it's submerged form and it seems to have changed a LOT, it's now got needle-shaped leaves and the tips of each stem are a nice bright almost lime-green, I'm thinking of maybe trying to make a really large bush from this plant as it looks really nice, but it is a LOT slower growing than the other plants in the tank.

The Micranthemum Micranthemoides has done better than the Micranthemum Umbrosum, but it's been prone once again to uprooting and it's very fragile, it's really taken off too in the last couple of weeks and I need to cut it but it does seem prone to putting out masses of aerial roots.

The HC is taking it's time, I've had some problems with bits becoming uprooted, but it's not too bad.  The substrate just doesn't seem too great for planting, when I push in to plant one errant strand another breaks free! (and that's with tweezers!)  :? 

I have only had one crisis which was actually fairly well timed, last tuesday, just as I'd been planning on heading off to work... the CO2 cylinder ran out! Arrrgh!  I then did some thinking, without CO2, I couldn't keep the light on and risk getting an algae cess-pit over the space of the week, I also didn't want to keep fertilising for the same reasons... the tank had been getting a little algae problem so I thought... well now's as good a time as any to try a blackout.

I managed to get a replacement cylinder today and upon unwrapping the tank after 5 days, it looks pretty good, all the diatom algae has gone, along with the BGA, some green algae remains on the wood but it's much reduced and I've also got some very fat looking snails! 

I've taken some shots of the tank prior to pruning, after I unwrapped it, I'll post them just after lunch which is just going on the table now! 

Back in a bit,

Matt


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## mjenner (19 Apr 2009)

Hi Guys, sorry about that... turned into a fun afternoon involving looking over a friend's personal statement and doing all manner bits and pieces, then I had to do another water change on the tank 

As promised, here are the pics, the algae's better than it was, but there's a fair bit of yellowing, the HC looks ok but isn't pearling like it normally does and a few leaves are a little yellow, if it's still that way after a few days I'll worry a little more, but for now, I was expecting a little yellowing after a black out of such a long length of time.

_(Click the links for original size pic)_





http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3456412907/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3456416701/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3457232526/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3457236436/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3457231414/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3456420261/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3456422283/sizes/o/




http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennerm/3456423149/sizes/o/

I haven't tackled the mops of stems today, that's a task for this week, I think I'll have to uproot and get the new growth replanted as a lot of the original leaves near the base have rotted on the Didiplis Diandra and there's some rather manky stems on the Micranthemum Umbrosum, if the yellowing continues after I do this, I think I'll look at flow around the base of the stems but the CO2 bubbles do seem to whirl all over the tank.

Also still trying to get the HC growing quicker, but guess that'll be a bit of a longer wait! 

Next weekend I'll try and remember to get a nitrite test kit to see if the tank's ready to reintroduce it's original occupants (12 Harlequin Rasboras) probably 2 at a time over the space of a week or two (reducing the CO2 to an animal-safe level beforehand) and try and do something about trimming the stem plants.

Cheers,

Matt


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## mjenner (4 Aug 2009)

An Update

Well, it's been a while since I last updated the journal due to Wedding Prep the tank was a little neglected, I performed the water changes and that was about it, as a result I had a lot of growth of my stem-plants, so much so that I ended up with a massive knot of plant at the top of the tank (yes, I know, my own fault due to laziness).

The Rasboras went back in shortly after my last post and have been very happy in there since.

I sorted that out, had to throw most of it away unfortunately as it'd gone all leggy and straggly, but made enough fresh groups and replanted them, I also got a dosing pump and I started to dose DIY TPN+ mixed myself.

Everything seemed to be plodding along ok, I also took all the baby Java Fern and reattached it to the wood to make something I was happier with, the old leaves had gone black where the babies had grown and started to look tatty.

Then, we had a busy period at work, and then we had a last-minute chance to go on a holiday, this is when the problems happened...

Before I left, I cleaned the filter, did a water change, I checked the CO2 was ok (just about 50 bar), and that there was enough ferts in the dosing bottle (or so I thought).  I'd arranged for a friend to pop in 3 times to check on the tank and off we went.

Upon my return I was greeted with the cesspool from hell...   

The CO2 had run out in the space of a week!  There seems to be no easy way to gauge when it's going to run out...  I was having problems with CO2 fluctuations before this, maybe this should have been a sign.  To top this off, the ferts had also run-dry and so I now instead of my nice tidy tank had spyrogira everywhere...

A little despondent (and knackered after the trip home) left it... (big mistake...) This state of affairs continued for a while as I got more and more fed-up.  I didn't want to put the other CO2 bottle on as I thought I might have a leak in my system (I'd only put the cylinder on a 3-4 weeks before I left on holiday), and I didn't want to exacerbate the algae any more, so I didn't dose ferts (probably another newbie mistake).

The cause of my CO2 woes, I thought might have been my over-complicated CO2 system with two diffusers in each corner.  Because there was only one supply, I had a Y connector, but it wasn't feeding equally to each diffuser, so there was a needle-valve above each corner of the tank with another hose leading down to the diffusers.

I ordered some new hose and simplified the system, there would be only one CO2 diffuser, one needle-valve would remain (as the valve on the reg doesn't have very fine control), but it would be right up close to the reg.  I also planned to add the bubble-counter (as I'd forgotten to add it the first time I set it up).

About 3 weeks ago, I got my act together and cleared the tank out, using a wooden skewer, I pulled as much spyro out as I could, wrapping it on the stick like candy-floss, it looked NASTY. I pulled out about a full candyfloss full in about 8-10 attempts.  I then did a 50% waterchange and cleaned the filter, I setup again and restarted the CO2, I also re-mixed some ferts and set the dosing pump again.

In order to try and get things stable, I've set the lights for only 6hrs (4-10pm) with a 1hr lit period in the morning to check the tank and feed the fish.  I've also increased the time that the CO2 comes on before the lights, ferts are dosed at approximately 5:45am by the pump.

A week on from the cleanup, things look ok in there (lime-green dropchecker, good flow), but I'm not seeing any signs of recovery yet.  I've had to do a couple more sessions clearing spyro (small clumps I missed and odd wisps) but it seems embedded in most plants.  I've had to get rid of almost all the HC and the hairgrass, I've kept some of the stems but may have to get rid of them too.  I'm thinking if I can't get rid of it I'll try a blackout, then failing that, I'll restart the tank and try some different plants (keeping the filter alive with the fish in a separate container) as it's very disheartening seeing this horrible wiry stuff everywhere when you look closely and I'm not too convinced with the look of the tank.

Anyway that's the latest, I'll try and post some pics of the current state of the tank when I get home tonight.

Bye for now,

Matt


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## baron von bubba (4 Aug 2009)

bummer dude!
in the early pics it looked great too!

are you using disposable co2 bottles?


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## mjenner (4 Aug 2009)

Nope, old-style JBL cylinders, they're perfectly refillable, but most fire extinguisher places won't refill them I think?  They cost Â£16 a time, I think they're just refilled by JBL and shipped out again.

I can't go to a fire extinguisher as I can't fit it in the cupboard and there will be even tighter in there soon as I've just purchased an EX-1200 to replace my Fluval 205 and increase flow in there (I don't want ANY reason for my next plants to fail, flow was a potential issue when I had more plants in the tank earlier on).

Thanks for the complement, I liked the look at the time, but I think I might go for a bit more variety next time, the Java Fern didn't look right up-close and the wood dominates the tank a bit and makes it difficult planting, and the tank didn't feel "balanced" to me for some reason.

I think I might have a think and replace the plants once I'm sure I've got everything stable and I've got a working "formula", who knows, the plants might recover enough for me to change my mind and keep them!


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## Themuleous (4 Aug 2009)

Great photos  plants seem to be doing well   

Sam

EDIT - what lighting have you got over the tank now?


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## mjenner (4 Aug 2009)

Well, those are the old pics, pre... "the incident"... 

It's not looking as bad as it was, but it doesn't look as good as the pics earlier in this thread by any standards, I'm a little bit ashamed of it at the moment as it looks pretty horrible, now clean... but still horrible.

I've got a Juwel Hi-Lite lighting bar over it, so it's 2x28w T5's from memory I think?


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## baron von bubba (4 Aug 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Nope, old-style JBL cylinders, they're perfectly refillable, but most fire extinguisher places won't refill them I think?  They cost Â£16 a time, I think they're just refilled by JBL and shipped out again.



Â£16 for 500g??
i found a fire extinguisher place near me recently to refill my FE, when i told him what i use it for he told me that they fill up the co2 canisters for the LFS, so some will!
cost Â£10 for a 2kg FE


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## mjenner (4 Aug 2009)

Yup, it's a rip-off for sure...  good old Maidenhead Aquatics....  

Where was it that you heard that they'd refill fishtank CO2 cylinders?

I live near Kingston, so anywhere within 30mins would be great, MAq in Weybridge is the only place around here that I know stocks "proper" CO2 equipment, everywhere else just has yeast kits if you're lucky and the odd disposable aerosol can kit.  

I'm going to investigate this option again when this one runs out.  Otherwise, my friend's parents run a company that makes high-pressure hose test equipment, it might be worthwhile getting a larger FE and decanting it if I can get the appropriate hose adaptor and advice from them, if that proves to be less expensive.  Unfortunately, a larger cabinet and a proper FE isn't really an option.  

_Yep, I know it's not something to be messing about with, but I have worked with high-pressure gas before (filling and using dive cylinders) there are a few caveats with filling CO2, but I'll check with those in the know before attempting it myself (that's even if I can get the appropriate hose and fittings!)_


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## baron von bubba (5 Aug 2009)

mjenner said:
			
		

> Yup, it's a rip-off for sure...  good old Maidenhead Aquatics....
> 
> Where was it that you heard that they'd refill fishtank CO2 cylinders?
> 
> I live near Kingston, so anywhere within 30mins would be great, MAq in Weybridge is the only place around here that I know stocks "proper" CO2 equipment, everywhere else just has yeast kits if you're lucky and the odd disposable aerosol can kit.



it was A and E fire equipment, by staverton airport! they do co2 for aquatic habitat in shurdington.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4612
this link may have something close to you


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## mjenner (12 Aug 2009)

Yep, took a look on there last-time, there's one place out in Croydon, but it was too far away at the time to justify it, so I forgot to call and ask if they'd do it.  Before I go I might get a third or fourth canister, then get all of them filled at the same time to make it worth my while heading over that way.

Definately have to be an occasional thing as any trip close to Croydon potentially leaves me open to my fiancÃ©e dragging me on an Ikea trip (for those not in the know, there's a massive Ikea at Purley Way in Croydon which serves most of South London)  

Now that's a fate worse than many, many things... particularly at the weekend!  An afternoon of looking at amusingly named furniture, whilst dodging young families with barely controlled kids and being forced to have opinions on a particular colour of cushion... and then ending up spending a fortune all whilst trying to be convinced by your significant other that you've saved so much money, eugh!


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## mjenner (12 Aug 2009)

Mid-Week Update Algae 1 - Matt 1

Well, the title says it all really, it's a bit of a draw so far, I've grabbed out a shed-load of Spyro, now using a toothbrush as I read in Stu Worral's journal that he had a bit of an issue with Spyro and used a toothbrush for extraction.

Well, I promised some updated pics as well, so here we are:




Before Tuesday's latest clearup (this is nowhere near as bad as it was after I got back from Crete a couple of months ago!).  It's infested the stems on the right and it's all wound into the pogostemnon, and the remaining one clump of HC.  All the hairgrass at the front-left has gone along with most of the HC (it was infested when I tried to pull the spyro out.




More Algae, closeup on the stems.  The stems are in a bit of a bad-way, they were heavily infested with algae and it's affected their growth which is straggly, I'm also having to brush them quite vigourously to get the spyro out, so I've weighted them for now as I'm forever uprooting them whilst trying to clean them.  I''m hoping to get some nice growth offf these that I'll be able to plant and grow on.




Yet more algae...




HC infested.




Pogo Spyro infestation. It's all tangled with the roots of these plants, again, brushing has helped, but it keeps uprooting them, so I have to be careful.




Java Ferns - Now, these are a bit confusing, ends are going black and dropping off, there are nibbled bits (looks like snails) and some bits are going transparent, so all in all, for thse plants, not too good looking, anyone got any ideas on how to recover these?




Nibbled Java Fern




Nibbled Pogo - Now, I'm pretty sure it's my snails doing all this, they multiplied something silly whilst the algae was in the tank... however now, there's very little algae, so maybe they're attacking the plants now?




Tided Tank - I replanted the stems and took another pic, looks a lot better, just got to stay on top of the Spyro now...

_Edit: posted whilst half asleep and had duplicate images, corrected the URLs now _


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## Stu Worrall (12 Aug 2009)

a blackout will help with spiro.  Its a real pain in the blahblahblahblah doing one but youve got to bite the bullet and seal the tank for 4 ish days.  Helpded mine out no end plus putting a load of shrimps in and reducing the light for a couple of weeks.


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## mjenner (13 Aug 2009)

Hey Stu,

Yep, that's the next plan of action, just trying to minimise the algae as much as I can first, so far I've done the following to try and stabilise the situation:


Reduce Lighting from 10hrs to 6hrs.
Refill ferts doser and confirm dosing correctly (40ml DIY TPN+)
Re-do CO2 hosing to simplify it and remove potentially leaking connector.
Add bubble-counter (to aid CO2 stability)
Comb the heck out of the plants to get rid of the spyro and unfortunately most of my foreground plants (they were infested and just brushing them pulled them up) 

I want to get the situation stabilised (was previously not an ideal environment due to my laziness), CO2 and Ferts are now meeting or exceeding light requirements, and I'm beginning to see the plants growing again, little bit longer, then I'll do the black-out.

I've also just upgraded the filter from a Fluval 205 to a Tetratec EX 1200, this seems to be working great (rather pleased with this bargain, noticed it on eBay for Â£76.90 plus postage of Â£9.90, and noticed it was a shop selling it, rang the shop and asked them if they'd sell it direct to me for Â£70 (seeing as eBay take 10%). Next, their courier screwed up and it ended up going to ireland    yep, bonkers I know, so a journey of approx 100 miles took a week and went via Ireland!), as a result... the courier's refunding the delivery fee, so that's saving me another Â£12.95 on postage! (there was a small premium for delivery to London).  

When I received the filter, there was a price sticker on it for Â£92.95!  I love a bargain... when it works!  

I transferred the contents of the old filter's media to the new filter's baskets so that I don't lose the filter bacteria.  This has impeded flow a little, but with 1200l/h (less a bit) and the two koralia nano's it shouldn't matter for now.

After 4-6 weeks or so, I'll take the old media out and the new media should have enough bacteria to continue on with and I can put the old filter up on the for-sale area.  Without the extra foam impeding flow, I should hopefully be able to remove the nano's so the tank'll look cleaner too!  (although I'll assess that later).

I'll do a blackout soon, possibly this weekend and see how things go from there.

I think the thing I'm most worried about is the damage to my Java Fern, I know it does have a tendency to blacken in places when it grows plantlets, but a lot of the leaves seem to have damage but no new plantlets and some have gone transparent on the tips, I'm a little concerned that this might not recover too quickly as I know that Java Fern isn't that quick a growing plant.

_Things I'm still thinking about:_

_I'm considering re-scaping a bit to start from a clean-slate so to speak, not too happy with how it looks now, there's something unbalanced about it...

I've got a shed-load of cherry shrimp in my nano-cube, but I'm loathe to put them in the main tank if I do decide to re-scape it (don't want to lose them if I have any drastic upheaval in there while replanting)._


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