# Hardscaping materials



## Crossocheilus (15 Aug 2014)

For my new tank I am considering using manzanita and some type of stone to achieve something like this:




Excuse the bad drawing, I'm no artist but I hope to be an aquascaper (is that even a word we use? ) 
So anyway I'm I'm thinking manzanita wood, I've found some great pieces on Mr Manzanita (are they a good company?) But I am undecided as to what rock to use, I have hard water so I don't want to increase hardness with seiryu stone and anyway it is too dark. So then I was thinking dragon stone but now having glanced back through George Farmer's tank using petrified wood I am thinking about using that. Any thoughts on these hardscaping materials and where to buy them?[DOUBLEPOST=1408139934][/DOUBLEPOST]Also when ordering aquascaping rock online how much should I order for this 90 x 45 x 45cm tank? As you can see I wouldn't be using loads but will want to have a bit of choice. Oh and feel free to criticise or praise  (I wish) my plan. Oh and btw the triangle bit is an area of sand.


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## Dominic (16 Aug 2014)

Hello, i'm probably no help here but i just wanted to say that sketch follows the rule of thirds well and would for sure make a great scape! I have to second you on the dragon stone, truly one of the best textures to work with.


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## nickmcmechan (16 Aug 2014)

I'm guessing you'll need something like 5-7kg of stone...but I could be way off....


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## Crossocheilus (16 Aug 2014)

5 - 7kg was what I had in mind as well. I definitely like the dragon stone but I am just struggling to visualise what sort of shapes I would make with it and how to fit it into the wood, seeing the fairly rounded shape of George's petrified wood and the Spirit stone used in Nuno M.'s Crystal River Shore I thought the slightly rounded shapes would fit amongst the wood the best. Then again Stu Worrall used wood and a lot of dragon stone to great effect in Apalala Shore.[DOUBLEPOST=1408200135][/DOUBLEPOST]What is the best place for Aquascaping rock on the Internet,  for price and quality of the pieces supplied. If it was really nice rock I would be willing to pay a bit more. Obviously the best way to get specific pieces for aquascaping is to see them in the flesh but I don't have any local places so I'm stuck with the internet.

Is Mr Manzanita any good? I saw them recommended in another thread.


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## tim (16 Aug 2014)

Manzy on sale http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/manzanita-sale.34036/. When ordering rocks online I always purchase as much as my funds allow to give myself a good choice of pieces to use, I normally keep extras for future scapes/ tanks, but you could sell on the excess, nice plan btw, look forward to a journal.


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## Crossocheilus (16 Aug 2014)

Thanks Tim, I hope it will be good, I've never done a high tech before but having spent a very long time planning and researching with the help of the ukaps community I think I have the best chance of success.

I did look at some decent pieces on there but found better pieces for my plan at Mr Manzanita,  with the sale the prices are about the same.


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## Crossocheilus (16 Aug 2014)

Actually i've now selected some pieces on Aquarium Gardens, so thats the manzy sorted, still undecided about the rock type and where to buy, still I haven't even ordered my tank from ND Aquatics yet, so I guess I have some time to experiment


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## terry82517 (17 Aug 2014)

How much wood did you go for mate? 
Thinking of getting some for my tank, which is the same size.


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## Crossocheilus (17 Aug 2014)

Haven't actually bought yet, will do tomorrow just chosen a few that I like, I've picked just 2 pieces but they are all I need.


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

So my manzanita has arrived and its great, very well packaged from Aquarium Gardens. My only slight issue which is in no way AQ's fault is that the big piece I got is a bit 2D, a bit flat. I'm sure I'll manage and the smaller piece is great.

For the rock I have just found AE has something called Baltic Rock which looks the same as spirit stone, so I am seriously considering ordering 10kg from AE that would cost £32.50.


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## nickmcmechan (21 Aug 2014)

Crossocheilus said:


> So my manzanita has arrived and its great, very well packaged from Aquarium Gardens. My only slight issue which is in no way AQ's fault is that the big piece I got is a bit 2D, a bit flat. I'm sure I'll manage and the smaller piece is great.
> 
> For the rock I have just found AE has something called Baltic Rock which looks the same as spirit stone, so I am seriously considering ordering 10kg from AE that would cost £32.50.


Strap the large and small pieces together to make a single 3d?


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## Stu Worrall (21 Aug 2014)

Sounds like a great plan for a tank. Having a 90 vm here I'd say 10kg wouldn't be enough. Probably at least double that to have more available rock to sculpt it how you want and get the height to give depth. 

Haven't tried Baltic rock with manzi. My thoughts would be that it would be very contrasty with the white to brown. 

Have you thought about Yamaya stone? They are quite small pieces which you could get less of then fill in the back with something cheaper like lava (which you won't see). 

Don't forget with manzi you'll need to soak it or tie it enough so it doesn't float

My next scape is a 120cm with manzi and dragon stone again


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

I had considered that Stu and it could be an issue but having seen other people using the very similar Spirit stone I think it looks great once matured with bit of algae. I'll do a few image searches for scapes using baltic/spirit stone and some with dragon stone, still plenty of work to do before I find an ideal material.


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

I hope Nuno m doesn't mind me using these pics but they demonstrate what I mean perfectly

Before:



After:


[DOUBLEPOST=1408653438][/DOUBLEPOST]I think even in the before picture the Spirit stone and manzanita looks quite good but improves with age/algae and the texture is great. Sooo where does that leave me...


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## Stu Worrall (21 Aug 2014)

Good call on the algae. And it does suit in the above images but I think norberts is manten. EDIT sorry, thinking of another similar scape there as it's not norberts 

From your sketch you'd have to ask AE to supply some smaller bits to lock into the bigger bits.


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

So Stu, you think I would need at least 20kg, well that would cost £60, so  a bit more than I am willing to pay, I'll start with 10kg and then maybe buy some more later if I feel that it is needed. I'll have a think and add up some cost to see if I can squeeze it into my budget, the more I think about it the more I agree with you, I'm going to need more rock!


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## Stu Worrall (21 Aug 2014)

I've never actually seen it in the flesh but when I was speaking to Richard about using it in my mini-m he'd suggested 10kg so it must be pretty dense. 

As mentioned above you could use it as a frontal 'skin' then bulk up the back with lava or pumice and hide it with plants. Get the 10kg while you're planning and lay it out to check what it will fill


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

10kg for a mini m! Hmmm I see a lot of spending coming up very soon


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## Crossocheilus (21 Aug 2014)

I just hope I'll be spending money on a rock that I like


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Aug 2014)

Hey mate,
I purchased 10kg of AE Baltic rock initially, but this rock is heavy and I received only 5-6 pieces.
I then ordered another 16 (I think) and still am struggling for ideas in my 90P. 

May I also add that Ill probably be ordering some more soon. And requesting some 'detailing' small pieces to give a much greater feel as Stu says.


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## Crossocheilus (22 Aug 2014)

I may only need 10 or so pieces, we will see but yeah I think I might start with 20kg and go from there. So for the same 10kg how much dragon stone would I get, just a rough estimate??


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## Stu Worrall (22 Aug 2014)

I just bought a 20kg box of daring stone so I'll take a pic later if you want. You get lots more as it's not as dense and full of holes


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## Crossocheilus (22 Aug 2014)

Thanks Stu that would be great! 
Here is a mockup of what my tank may look like (the rocks are just holding the wood):






The tape measure show the height of the tank.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Aug 2014)

stuworrall said:


> I just bought a 20kg box of daring stone so I'll take a pic later if you want. You get lots more as it's not as dense and full of holes



Where is this rock of which you speak stu? Where do you get yours?


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## Stu Worrall (22 Aug 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Where is this rock of which you speak stu? Where do you get yours?


It's in my utility 

Got it from Andys aquatics the other week. Cost about £30 per box.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Aug 2014)

stuworrall said:


> It's in my utility
> 
> Got it from Andys aquatics the other week. Cost about £30 per box.



Haha!
Cool, cheers stu.(


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## Stu Worrall (22 Aug 2014)

stuworrall said:


> I just bought a 20kg box of daring stone so I'll take a pic later if you want. You get lots more as it's not as dense and full of holes


Oops typo. That's dragon stone not daring!!


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## Crossocheilus (22 Aug 2014)

I got the idea


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## tim (22 Aug 2014)

stuworrall said:


> Oops typo. That's dragon stone not daring!!


And I spent hours searching the net for ada daring stone


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## Crossocheilus (24 Aug 2014)

Sorry Stu , I know you have no obligation to take those pics but I just want to remind you as it would be a great help to me. I'm thinking I will get the dragon stone as it is definitely a nice rock and should be a lot cheaper than baltic. I'll probs use baltic in my next scape. Hey Nathaniel if you don't mind could you possibly take a picture of the 26kg of Baltic Rock you bought?

I feel bad asking you guys to do stuff for me so sorry if this is kinda rude... I don't mean to be


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## Rıza Sırman (28 Aug 2014)

Crossocheilus said:


> Obviously the best way to get specific pieces for aquascaping is to see them in the flesh but I don't have any local places so I'm stuck with the internet.



My advice should be to buy regular but shapable stone from internet like lava rock. I know its not a rarely found stone and does not have good texture like dragon or other types pf rocks. But you can break it into pieces and stick the pieces with silicone. And give them an extra-ordinary shape. Maybe this way you can achieve an eye taking hardscape


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## Stu Worrall (2 Sep 2014)

Crossocheilus said:


> Sorry Stu , I know you have no obligation to take those pics but I just want to remind you as it would be a great help to me. I'm thinking I will get the dragon stone as it is definitely a nice rock and should be a lot cheaper than baltic. I'll probs use baltic in my next scape. Hey Nathaniel if you don't mind could you possibly take a picture of the 26kg of Baltic Rock you bought?
> 
> I feel bad asking you guys to do stuff for me so sorry if this is kinda rude... I don't mean to be


Sorry, i missed the update.  

Ive taken this, its next to the car and the wheels are 18inch if that helps.

Dragon stone for ukaps thread by Stu Worrall Photography, on Flickr

and got knows why thats rotated.  it didnt on flickr


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