# Does new lighting have to be expensive?



## Rahms (17 Feb 2015)

Good evening,

The T8 unit in my Juwel hood died a while ago, so I'm just looking for a replacement.  I like the idea of getting a new rim-mounted unit instead of fitting something to the old hood, but am open to any suggestions. There are a million options and I'm getting a bit bogged down. 60x30cm tank. 54 litres I think.

What is the difference between a pricey T5HO 2 tube system and, say, this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T5-Aquari...557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20f57dd395

I'd prefer LEDs really but the outlay (and lack of info for cheap units) seems prohibitive.

Thanks

also I have a FE CO2 system but never used it with the lowly T8, so the new light being brighter should be OK


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## greenmac75 (17 Feb 2015)

you should check out allpondsolutions t5ho reasonably prices, I got 4 bulb 120cm for £110 at christmas


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## Rahms (17 Feb 2015)

greenmac75 said:


> you should check out allpondsolutions t5ho reasonably prices, I got 4 bulb 120cm for £110 at christmas



looks nice but still its £90 for a 60cm. Just seems so pricey for what it is, wondering what I'm missing.

least its not £300 of LEDs lol

cheers


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## greenmac75 (17 Feb 2015)

I had the wavepoint led had to send back twice wouldnt recommend and the arcadia stretch, which was a nice light but one was just not enough


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## ian_m (17 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> also I have a FE CO2 system but never used it with the lowly T8,


I ran for 2 years with CO2 and T8 tubes, in fact light level still makes tank high tech. Plants grow and pearl and very easy to keep algae free. Now moved to T5's plant growth much faster, but then also so so easy to take your eye off he ball and let algae in.....


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## EnderUK (18 Feb 2015)

That unit is fine but a little on the high light level. HERE. The 3x14w unit seems to be for a 60cm tank but I would contact the seller first. Probably want to change the blue bulb but you can run 1, 2, 3 or three bulb depending on your CO2 and flow.


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## parotet (18 Feb 2015)

I have got also a 60ish liters tank high tech and I bought the cheapest 2x24w T5HO (Odyssea) which works (I guess) as well as any other light fixture. My suggestion would be to ensure that you can hang it over the tank and regulate the distance to it,  depending on your skills and layout it can be too much to have it very close to the tank.

I am constantly looking on the websites and shops for LED lights, and I recognize I really love some of them but I cannot understand the prices. IMO paying 250 € for a light fixture is difficult to justify when my current light costed 70 €... It does the same job and the energy saving is pointless in the sense that you can run your lights during a lot of time (actually paying 180€ in electricity bills) to just begin saving energy.
In my case, I will wait for this technology to settle down or I would buy a reliable second hand one.

Jordi


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

parotet said:


> I really love some of them but I cannot understand the prices


That is because genuine proper quality LED's from the like of Cree and Osram and NOT Chinese Ebay copies, cost serious money. For instance single 5W LED cost £10 in quantity and going up to £20 each @ 10Watts. You will also need reliable drive electronics and suitable heatsinking for the LED's so I can easily see why you will not get a proper LED unit from the big manufacturers for less the £100.

These are proper efficient LED's not 5050 jobbies in strips/tubes that generally are not much brighter than T8 tubes.

Here you go genuine Cree 10W LED @ £18....
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/visible-leds/6675420/


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## parotet (18 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> That is because genuine proper quality LED's from the like of Cree and Osram and NOT Chinese Ebay copies, cost serious money. For instance single 5W LED cost £10 in quantity and going up to £20 each @ 10Watts. You will also need reliable drive electronics and suitable heatsinking for the LED's so I can easily see why you will not get a proper LED unit from the big manufacturers for less the £100.


Totally agree, actually I would not recommend any light fixture under this price... there are plenty of failures reported with cheap LED fixtures.




ian_m said:


> You will also need reliable drive electronics and suitable heatsinking for the LED's


Additionally if you want to be it dimmable (which is something very interesting), good electronics will make the light fixture more expensive and then they will easily reach 300 or much more.

Good and old tubes are for the moment fine for me, as I keep only small tanks (2 tanks that hardly make together 100 liters!) and I learnt here there is no need to buy expensive/special tubes or change them every year has it is stated everywhere in the internet.

Jordi


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## Jose (18 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> Good evening,
> The T8 unit in my Juwel hood died a while ago, so I'm just looking for a replacement. I like the idea of getting a new rim-mounted unit instead of fitting something to the old hood, but am open to any suggestions. There are a million options and I'm getting a bit bogged down. 60x30cm tank. 54 litres I think.
> What is the difference between a pricey T5HO 2 tube system and, say, this one:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T5-Aquari...557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20f57dd395
> ...



I dont think there is gonna be anything wrong with the ebay fixture. Its not really that cheap anyway IMO. I would buy it if I nedded it.


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## Edvet (18 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> genuine proper quality LED's from the like of Cree and Osram and NOT Chinese Ebay copies, cost serious money


 I have no problems with that, sadly not all manufacturers give out correct reliable truthfull info on their products.
For instance does Ikea use any high quality LED's in any fixture?


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> For instance does Ikea use any high quality LED's in any fixture?


Not convinced. A friends Ikea LED strip he bought ages ago to go in a kitchen cabinets has got some yellowing LED's and not all are the same brightness now. Nice idea connect to kitchen lights and light up insides of the cupboards...if it lasted.

Yet he has a £15 LED desk lamp on during office hours, and that is years old and showing now signs of failing....so luck of the draw in the end.


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## parotet (18 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> A friends Ikea LED strip he bought ages ago to go in a kitchen cabinets has got some yellowing LED's and not all are the same brightness now. Nice idea connect to kitchen lights and light up insides of the cupboards...if it lasted.


A friend of mine has been using two of them for a year over a long and narrow tank (100x27x27 cm) and he is growing successfully Cryptocorine, Limnophila sessiliflora, Rotala and Ludwigia. It grows veeeeery slowly but the tanks looks very nice with a large shoal of silvertip tetras... Consumption is just ridiculous but it looks very yellow IMO. You would need at least 4 of them to have more growth but then it would be cheaper to use classic T8s or a T5 fixture.

Jordi


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

parotet said:


> but it looks very yellow IMO


Ah "ye olde" yellowing LED's, as the UV light in "cheaper" white LED's attacks the plastic and rubber.


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## Edvet (18 Feb 2015)

And not one mention of wich LEDs they use anywhere. So no way to gauge their quality.......................sadface panda........


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

Just noticed this in the small print for some "cheaper" waterproof high output (still only 1/3 of a T5 HO @ 3500lm/m) LED strips @ £20 for 2.5meters. Quoted lifetime for 2-4hours per day for 5 years...3600 hours then, not good.

Mind you do some water proof 2000 lumens/meter @ £20/meter that are rated 24/7.


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## NatureBoy (18 Feb 2015)

these will be excellent: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1550LM-Mi...r-as-Worklight-Spot-Flood-Light-/271609462930


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

NatureBoy said:


> these will be excellent: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1550LM-Mi...r-as-Worklight-Spot-Flood-Light-/271609462930



Would be nice with they were LED's from the US Company Cree as opposed to "Chinese Republic Element Emitters" or what ever they are this week. A quick zoom in on the Ebay page reveals these are not the US Company Cree LED's.

See my post on Cree fakes.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-led.35187/#post-377556[/quote]


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## Rasbo (18 Feb 2015)

I have experimented with various alternative LED lights. Firstly LED strips glued inside the lid. Not very bright and over a relatively short time they start to fail, probably not totally waterproof.
I have replaced them with these as I have no headroom and wanted something thin. http://www.fishpetsreptiles.co.uk/products/detail.php?prodcat=&prodtype=&prodid=3145. They come as a strip in the aluminium heat dissipator but without the cover. I simply used aquarium silicone to attach a plastic front but it may be possible to get the whole light unit. The only issue I encountered is that the wires are very thin and readily come adrift. Simply a matter of resoldering though. They are bright but I am using them over 20cm deep tanks so may not be an issue for you. In fact I have dimmed them using this https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=l...2Fmini-led-dimmer-with-3-buttons.html;800;800. Be aware that you need to wire the LED the right way round.

Finally my new tanks are lit by these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-...ED-Light-White-Blue-White-Color-/261381185040. Very good light even blue too if you want it. Only issue I have is that the supports tend to fall off the tank edges but I think this can be worked around. 

These all appear good value to me and plants are growing under all of them for me.


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## markk (18 Feb 2015)

I'm currently retrofitting an old hood for some new LEDs. I wasn't really interested in anything other than genuine Cree XM-L2, so spent a little time digging around for ideas and components to make sure I was getting the best value:-

20volt/90Watt laptop power supply              - £2     (ebay second hand)
10 * Cree XM-L2 cool white LEDs on stars - £35   (ebay - search for 'ledbloke')
10 * LED star heat sinks                              - £27   (Farnell - http://uk.farnell.com/ohmite/sa-led-113e/heatsink-led-12-7mm-black/dp/2097677?CMP=i-bf9f-00001000)
2 * LDD-1000H LED drivers and board       - £20   (from Coralux in USA)
Thermal paste/wires/screws                        - £10

So £100 or so gives you the guts of a well spec'd LED system with what are notionally the most efficient LEDs available atm. I'm setting it up to run the led's at 1000ma which should generate something in the region of 4100-4600 lumens for about 30watts of power. 

I don't currently need anything else for the retrofit and I'll dim them via my raspberry pi.

I'm quite sure this is serious overkill for a 60*30 tank though. You could probably reduce the number of LEDs and maybe lower the cost even further with a couple of larger, individual heatsinks (such as http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/heatsinks/1898628/) for a slightly different approach.

The main attraction (other than cost!) for me, however, is the flexibility. At some point I'll transfer the led's to a home grown luminaire over a new, larger tank. All of the components are re-useable - I may need to add some additional drivers, or swap in a different power supply, or change the drivers and run them at a different current but the bulk of that £100 won't be wasted. Plenty of options if you're happy playing with electrickery and do a little research on how to set them up (pretty straightforward these days).

No doubt someone will be along shortly to burst my bubble  - but so far the build is working out pretty well.

Cheers, Mark


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## ian_m (18 Feb 2015)

Mark, done right. Cree LED's, heatsinks and controller. Can we have some pictures please...?


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## ukjay (18 Feb 2015)

I am setting my tank up with the TMC Aquabar 500 LED light unit, and at £50 for the tropical white and £55 for the coloured (in case you do not want washed out colours in fish and red plants), I do not think they are too badly priced. The light output is very good for such a cheap fixture, so it will be interesting to see how my system fares when it is set up.
Also, you can buy the the dimmer switch for around £13 each - so can flex the intensity too.

Jay


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## parotet (18 Feb 2015)

ukjay said:


> I am setting my tank up with the TMC Aquabar 500 LED light unit


I really love these ones: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/tmc-grobeam-600-ultima-twin-p-3799.html
But if you add a dimmer and the mounting brackets we are again around 300 pounds/euros

I am slo seeing this one that looks nice http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/classica-freshwater-led-otl-60cm-p-6684.html, again 300 pounds/euros (includes controller), as well as some Arcadia that have similar prices. Giesemann are really out of this range...

And TBH, my preferred one (the most beautiful I would say) is the ADA AquaSky (model 601 is the one that should be compared to the previous ones). Around 250 € (not bad if compared to the previous ones) but cannot be dimmed... so you got to know what you have in your hands.

However, as mentioned I am happy to grow my plants with T5s for the moment and spend my money on plants and upgrading other pieces of equipment in my tanks that are more important for me now (especially filters)

Jordi


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## tigertim (18 Feb 2015)

lighting wise iam using one of the fluval led overhanging luminieres cost £150....its a cracking light grows rotala and everything else at a decent rate


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## NatureBoy (19 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> Would be nice with they were LED's from the US Company Cree as opposed to "Chinese Republic Element Emitters" or what ever they are this week. A quick zoom in on the Ebay page reveals these are not the US Company Cree LED's.
> 
> See my post on Cree fakes.
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-led.35187/#post-377556


[/quote]
doh, linked to wrong ones...
check these instead: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a34c23416


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## NatureBoy (19 Feb 2015)

markk said:


> I'm currently retrofitting an old hood for some new LEDs. I wasn't really interested in anything other than genuine Cree XM-L2, so spent a little time digging around for ideas and components to make sure I was getting the best value:-
> 
> 20volt/90Watt laptop power supply              - £2     (ebay second hand)
> 10 * Cree XM-L2 cool white LEDs on stars - £35   (ebay - search for 'ledbloke')
> ...


Reckon this will work really well for you. Here's a link to my little journal on retrofitting cree leds into hood: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-move-from-t5-to-led.33917/#post-389229

would be confident to do it again but reckon those cree xbd floodlights linked above would be just as good...all options come in under £100 for equivalent of 4 TMC grobeams worth of power.


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## ian_m (20 Feb 2015)

NatureBoy said:


> doh, linked to wrong ones...
> check these instead: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...982?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a34c23416[/quote]
> Couple of suspicious points.
> 1. Cost is awfully low for a genuine Cree product. but XB-D are less than £2 each in quantity.
> ...


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## markk (20 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> Mark, done right. Cree LED's, heatsinks and controller. Can we have some pictures please...?



Sorry for the delay in replying - got distracted by family/half term.

At the moment, everything is a jumble of wires on the floor and I'm concentrating on the software side of the controller - but I'll post some details/pictures when it starts to come together.

You have to promise you won't laugh at my hood though - I realised today it is 23 years old (as is the tank it sits on!), hence not exactly 'fashionable'


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## markk (20 Feb 2015)

NatureBoy said:


> Reckon this will work really well for you. Here's a link to my little journal on retrofitting cree leds into hood: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-move-from-t5-to-led.33917/#post-389229
> 
> would be confident to do it again but reckon those cree xbd floodlights linked above would be just as good...all options come in under £100 for equivalent of 4 TMC grobeams worth of power.



Hi - yes, I'd spotted your build a few days back.

What led configuration (ie. current) did you finally settle on? and what does that equate to roughly in terms of consumption and output?

I'm guessing that the heatsink barely warms up - as you say, that's a large chunk of metal

One of my criteria was to keep everything fairly 'minimalist' (not sure that's the right word) - so that when the time comes for the new build, it can be as slim and streamlined as possible. The smaller the heatsink, the lower the weight - and much less risk to the tank when the inevitable accident happens. Really impressed with the small ohmite led heatsinks - though haven't really had a chance to see how much they warm up yet in a confined space (slightly worried they'll runner a little hotter than I really want). The 'minimalist' approach was also why I went down the xm-l2 route - the extra efficiency not only gives the extra light output (and lower running costs) - but also reduces the heat generation.

Cheers, Mark


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## Rahms (21 Feb 2015)

Decided I'll go with the cheapy £40 2xT5HO ebay fixture, can't see myself needing 4 bulbs any time soon.  And once I'm done with uni I'll have more time to get the soldering iron out and DIY some LEDs if I need something better.  DIY LEDs certainly look the best value (perhaps obviously...).

cheers for the replies! hopefully my CO2/flow are good enough


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