# RO Unit recommendations



## Paul Kettless (9 Mar 2021)

Hi,

After some of my recents post I have been thinking long and hard about an RO Unit, and the benefits that it will give to my soon to be set up.  I think if I start with tap water, I am going to want to make the move sooner or later so it might as well be right from the start.

I live in Lowestoft, Suffolk so we have very hard water here, and I have been reading that units have to work overtime in hard water areas and are prone to blockages and poor performance.  My system will be approx 160 litres im guessing after displacement, so I a going to need something that will produce 80 litres or so for the 50% weekly water change.

There does not seem to be much difference in price between a 100 and 200 gpd unit, and I understand that the bigger the unit the less waste it will produce.  There are also a multitude of different stage filters, and it seems that 3 stage without DI resin makes Life simpler and that the DI resin does not last long in hard water areas.  I can see the benefits of using a pump version.

Can anyone recommend a fairly decent unit, that wont kill the already over spent budget, but is also not going to cut corners on the job that it needs to perform.  I am seeing them advertised from as little as £50 on bay of e, and right up to £450.  

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Paul


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## MirandaB (9 Mar 2021)

I'm really happy with my Vyair 100gpd pumped unit,usually can do 25lts in just over an hour temperature dependant as I run mine off my outside tap.
Not far from you (just outside Bungay so similar water) and I use their colour change resin which lasts a fair while considering the hardness of the water here and the fact I'm running off around 350lts a week.
Just looked on the Spotless Water website and they will have a filling station in Lowestoft soon so might be worth waiting for that.
When you sign up and get your fob you get a fair amount free to start with,after that cost is around 3.5p a litre and they guarantee 0 tds.


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## Zeus. (9 Mar 2021)

MirandaB said:


> 3.5p a litre and they guarantee 0 tds.



Thanks good value IMO


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## Paul Kettless (11 Mar 2021)

MirandaB said:


> I'm really happy with my Vyair 100gpd pumped unit,usually can do 25lts in just over an hour temperature dependant as I run mine off my outside tap.
> Not far from you (just outside Bungay so similar water) and I use their colour change resin which lasts a fair while considering the hardness of the water here and the fact I'm running off around 350lts a week.
> Just looked on the Spotless Water website and they will have a filling station in Lowestoft soon so might be worth waiting for that.
> When you sign up and get your fob you get a fair amount free to start with,after that cost is around 3.5p a litre and they guarantee 0 tds.


That's good to know, I have contacted spotless water but they have not confirmed when either of the local stations to me will be opening. 

I have the opportunity of a second hand unit on this site but its only a 50gpd unit and I'm wondering if it's man enough.


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## Zeus. (11 Mar 2021)

I used a 50GPD at work for years, had a booster pump fitted, and small storage tank, tap PSI was never went above 1.0 PSI but never used it to it's fully potential as we just use what was needed to run autoclaves and other medical devices. Never had to check the ppm as one machine had a ppm limit before it spat it's dummy out. The ROembrane lasted well over 2 years and only replaced it when when the DI Resin only lasted a few weeks. If using DI Resin better/cheaper to refill cartrades yourself


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## Paul Kettless (13 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> I used a 50GPD at work for years, had a booster pump fitted, and small storage tank, tap PSI was never went above 1.0 PSI but never used it to it's fully potential as we just use what was needed to run autoclaves and other medical devices. Never had to check the ppm as one machine had a ppm limit before it spat it's dummy out. The ROembrane lasted well over 2 years and only replaced it when when the DI Resin only lasted a few weeks. If using DI Resin better/cheaper to refill cartrades yourself


Thanks for this, I went through and bought @soggybongo Seems as though it will do the job upon your advice 👍


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## Paul Kettless (13 Mar 2021)

@MirandaB as we appear to have similar water living so close together, what do you use to buffer your RO, and do you use a percentage in your tank of full RO.  would also be interested to know what you use for ferts and the doses you use for those also.


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## MirandaB (13 Mar 2021)

@Paul Kettless I usually do around a 60/40 ro/tap mix for the majority of tanks which gives me a middle ground for most of the species of fish I keep.
As virtually all my tanks are planted any Nitrates added back from the tap water are of no concern to me 
Only a couple of tanks are currently high tech and they're only small so I use Vimi all in one/Vimi all in red but since Brexit it's more tricky to get hold of as the 2 UK stockists have stopped doing it by the looks of things so may have to go back to ei dosing with powders.


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## Zeus. (14 Mar 2021)

MirandaB said:


> I use Vimi all in one/Vimi all in red but since Brexit it's more tricky to get hold of



we should be able to get a clone of those products 'I think', if your interested?
The data figures are slightly unclear with their use of full stops and commas in the ppm values for the composition





the Fe DTPA : Fe EDTA is unknown from the data also


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## MirandaB (14 Mar 2021)

I would be very interested @Zeus. Tried a few all in ones and this one seems to work best for me both in low and high tech tanks,the cost is getting prohibitive now though as buying direct from their website the postage has shot up and I can't justify £20 on postage! 
Did manage to source some on Amazon but the all in red is much more expensive so just got the all in one.


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## Zeus. (14 Mar 2021)

Managed to find a better source of data



which is easier to integrate/interpret


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## Zeus. (14 Mar 2021)

Data used- used the % of composition as it integrates well in the IFC calculator




Dose Vimi AIO



Dose Vimi AIO red






Initial results if dosed for high light and high planted (needs double/triple checking)




Also it is one for the few that contains Cobalt (Co) and one of the very few that contain Nickel (Ni)








Quite interesting to see the differences in the trace elements between the AIO and AIO Red.

My initial thoughts are this 'Vimi' is a a pretty comprehensive AIO thats well suited for tanks with 100% RO water,( would be interesting to hear input from @dw1305 , @X3NiTH and @Hanuman)

If doing a clone adding Ni IMO would be advisable, Co maybe 😬, but getting a trace mix salt with all the elements off the shelf is tricky, but a bit of DIY trace mix is doable also 

If using 100% RO water I can't see the need for using Fe DTPA either as it shouldn't be needed as the pH should be in the range to suit Fe EDTA well


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## kammaroon (14 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> The data figures are slightly unclear with their use of full stops and commas in the ppm values for the composition


A lot of countries use decimal commas and period separators for thousands, while UK and US use decimal points and comma separators for thousands. So, swap the commas and periods and it will be more recognisable. e.g. K is 23,000 (twenty three thousand) and Ni is 1.25 (one and a quarter).


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## Zeus. (14 Mar 2021)

kammaroon said:


> A lot of countries use decimal commas and period separators for thousands, while UK and US use decimal points and comma separators for thousands. So, swap the commas and periods and it will be more recognisable. e.g. K is 23,000 (twenty three thousand) and Ni is 1.25 (one and a quarter).


Thats what I was thinking, but found the % composition which was easier to work with in the IFC calculator, thanks for the input all the same


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## MirandaB (14 Mar 2021)

@Zeus. that is amazing and extremely fast work,thank you 
Now I just have to get my addled brain around it 🤣


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## Welearn (14 Mar 2021)

Hi Paul,
I am intrigued as Reef keeper myself. From your introduction I assume you have or are still with a Reef set up.
As you are enquiring about R/O unit I use a 3 stage compact system a 50GPD finerfilters. The system requires a minimum of 40PSI or 3 Bar work. The membrane will last between 1-3 years depending on water Hardness. The filter requires changing every six months. So..The system here I use on 273litre set up includes the bottom sump.So..for your 160 litre this should be more than adequate to cover your water changes. 
Also pending what live stock set up you are due to do, go low Tec as they say to start with, research as much when advancing to High Tec better to have good understanding. Horses for coarses as we say. 
I myself came to join UKaps purely for 5yr old granddaughter who now into fishkeeping.


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## Snowstreams (15 Dec 2021)

I got vimi all in red because I thought it might be lower in nitrates compared to other all in one fertilisers. ( I have a lot of live breeders in my tank so don't need too much nitrate) 
But I've noticed that my tank tds rises by 20ppm after each dose compared to about 2 ppm for tropica specialised. The ppm drops on the tank quickly during the day after the vimi dose though. 
@Zeus. where did you get the nitrogen figure for all in red above?  
I'm guessing the tropica dose must have urea or some non ionic form of nitrogen since it has lower tds readings.


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## dw1305 (15 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


Snowstreams said:


> I got vimi all in red because I thought it might be lower in nitrates compared to other all in one fertilisers.


It is definitely low in nitrate, my personal view would be stick with a complete mix. It could be <"VIMI AIO"> if you don't mind paying the <"mark-up"> on liquid fertilisers.  The "VIMI Red" blurb is quite entertaining:


> _...Liquid, easily absorbed complex fertilizer meant to nourish plants in aquariums with additional CO2 supply and intense lighting. The composition of fertilizers is specially balanced to reveal the red colors of red plants......_


So basically if you starve your plants of nitrogen <"they will appear redder">, because they don't have much chlorophyll to mask the anthocyanin. It is making a plus point out of a negative and for some reason <"werewolves"> and <"IT departments"> come to mind.

I'm going to have a go at this (for humans):


> _....... <"__Accentuate your natural pallor_">_, our special iron free diet will give you ivory allure......._





Snowstreams said:


> ......... I have a lot of live breeders in my tank so don't need too much nitrate)





Snowstreams said:


> But I've noticed that my tank tds rises by 20ppm after each dose compared to about 2 ppm for tropica specialised. The ppm drops on the tank quickly during the day after the vimi dose though.


The easiest way to remove the nitrate (NO3-), the nitrate from any fertiliser addition and from the aerobic oxidation of ammonia, is by <"having floating plants">. They aren't CO2 limited and are capable of removing a lot of fixed nitrogen, most of the aquarium literature <"vastly underestimates"> the potential of plant/microbe systems to remove nutrients.


Snowstreams said:


> I'm guessing the tropica dose must have urea or some non ionic form of nitrogen since it has lower tds readings.


It does, because the TDS meter is really measuring electrical conductivity it doesn't measure any non-ions, like urea (CO(NH2)2).

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (15 Dec 2021)

Snowstreams said:


> @Zeus. where did you get the nitrogen figure for all in red above?


From data/PDFs supplied/published/found in historical posts by the various companies, some of it was hard to find, the worse sin is for many ferts is there is no data to be found and they ignore your requests for it - the the loose terms of 'complete' , 'all your plants needs' etc etc. Would you buy a car without going though the tech details? I normally now more about the car than the sales team, but that may be just me 🤣


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## Snowstreams (15 Dec 2021)

Ivory allure! I had low iron problems until I increased my liquid fertiliser to daily, and I can't say I like the ivory & green vein look on my plants older leaves! 
but to prevent wastage i'm going to alternate between vimi all in red and Tropica specialised nutrition every 2nd day. 
At the moment my nitrate is fine for my fish  (ranging 20-40ppm) but I was going to get some amano shrimp & I heard 20ppm nitrate is their upper limit.


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## Snowstreams (15 Dec 2021)

Zeus. said:


> The worse sin is for many ferts is there is no data to be found and they ignore your requests for it -


I noticed that there is no contents information on the side of my vimi all in red at all. Just a sticker in polish but it didn't have composition on it either. Same goes for the vimi website. 
I was going to measure the ammonia and nitrate levels with a test kit to get a better idea of its breakdown.
But your figures above will save me the hassle! 
I've literally just started co2 injection so I suspect my plants will start using up a lot more nitrate now, so I'll move back to the all in one option soon.


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## dw1305 (15 Dec 2021)

Hi all, 


Snowstreams said:


> I had low iron problems until I increased my liquid fertiliser to daily, and I can't say I like the ivory & green vein look on my plants older leaves!


It may have been magnesium (Mg) rather than iron (Fe), if you had <"chlorosis just on the older leaves">? 


Snowstreams said:


> Ivory allure!


I was quite proud of that one. I know they are <"ridiculous analogies">, but all I want is a <"bit of honesty"> from the <"sellers of these products">. 


Snowstreams said:


> At the moment my nitrate is fine for my fish (ranging 20-40ppm) but I was going to get some amano shrimp & I heard 20ppm nitrate is their upper limit.


This is one that comes up a lot on the forum and the simple answer is <"we don't actually know"> at <"what level"> the nitrate ion (NO3-) becomes <"problematic for livestock">. 

The issue is that we can arrive at high nitrate levels in two different ways, either:

The smoking gun of previously high levels of ammonia (NH3) and nitrite (NO2-), or
added as NO3- ions from tap water water of fertiliser.
 It is only really planted tank keepers who add nitrate as an ion, and this is just because plants <"are so effective"> at removing it from the water column. 

cheers Darrel


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## Snowstreams (15 Dec 2021)

dw1305 said:


> It may have been magnesium (Mg) rather than iron (Fe), if you had <"chlorosis just on the older leaves">?


I've been adding a few grams of epsom salts to my water changes to rule out magnesium too. 

My algae went from brown algae to green algae after the magnesium/iron increase, but my mollies love eating it and I'm hoping the co2 will give plants the upper hand on the algae soon anyway. 
I may not need amano shrimp so


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## dw1305 (15 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


Snowstreams said:


> I've been adding a few grams of epsom salts to my water changes to rule out magnesium too.
> 
> My algae went from brown algae to green algae after the magnesium/iron increase,


That is a pretty good indication that your tank <"was deficient"> in iron (Fe)  and/or magnesium (Mg) before.

Green Algae belong to <"the same clade"> as ("_share a common ancestor with_") higher plants and have the same photo systems etc. If you like they are all _green plants_.

The major difference is that algae <"don't have any internal plumbing">, so they show a quicker response for non-mobile nutrients.

<"A quick response to nutrients"> (high maximal growth rate) was one of the reasons why Common Duckweed (_Lemna minor)_ was the <"original duckweed"> for the <"Duckweed Index">.

cheers Darrel


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