# Cannot sustain cherry shrimp in planted tank



## SteveMid (21 Jul 2021)

Hi everyone,

I have a well established planted tank (fluval Roma 240 - see attached picture). I am happy with plant growth, especially since moving to CO2 injection 3 months ago, but just cannot keep cherry shrimp alive.

Water conditions are as follows:
Aquarium water
KH 3
GH 5
Ph 6.5
Nitrates 20-30ppm
Nitrates 0
Ammonia 0

~40% water change every week
Daily dose of evolution aqua plant fertiliser.

Tap water (measured)
KH 2
GH 3
Ph 7

The tank is very lightly stocked with 13 neon tetras, 2 leopard danios and 2 platties: Fish health is good.

I have 15 amano shrimps in the tank that thrive and I have not lost a single amano in a year.  The females are frequently carrying eggs and no obvious moulting problems. On the other hand, I have tried keeping cherry shrimp but they just slowly die away. I lost my first 5 I bought over the space of a month then recently tried again with 10 and I only have 1 left after approx two months. The ones that last for a while do grow so must be moulting. I’ve only ever found two dead but I guess the others just get cleared up. I’d love to keep some cherry shrimp in the tank but not sure what to do. I can only think that it’s got something to do with the tap water/water changes. 

Can someone suggest some things that I could do or where i maybe going wrong.

thanks


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## MichaelJ (21 Jul 2021)

@SteveMid  I only had shrimps (Cherry and other different colored Neocaridina davidi's) for a couple of months in one of my tanks, so I am definitely not a shrimp expert. So far all my shrimps seems fine - I dont have an exact headcount because I always only see perhaps half a dozen randomly at any given time (not sure how they plan that out...), but I know most are still around. They need a good amount of Calcium for the molting process - but 5 GH seems fair if there's enough Calcium there. I am running my tanks at 5.5 GH (at a 2:1 - 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio) and seem to have no problem. I do not know if Amano have a lower tolerance level.... everything else about your water looks fine (and very similar to mine actually - I have high NPK levels... my shrimps don't care). How big are those Cherry shrimps? Could it be predation/injury from some of the other fish or Amano shrimps perhaps?

Hopefully a shrimp expert will chime in!

Your tank look really nice btw.    and Welcome to UKAPS!  

Cheers,
Michael


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## SteveMid (21 Jul 2021)

Thanks for your reply Michael, the cherry shrimps were very small when I added them but so were the amanos. The Cherry’s that survived did grow a little but not same size as Amanos. Never been any sign of attack from the fish even when they were little. For the first couple of weeks all of the cherries were happy feeding out in the open but then started to disappear


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## Aqua360 (21 Jul 2021)

SteveMid said:


> Thanks for your reply Michael, the cherry shrimps were very small when I added them but so were the amanos. The Cherry’s that survived did grow a little but not same size as Amanos. Never been any sign of attack from the fish even when they were little. For the first couple of weeks all of the cherries were happy feeding out in the open but then started to disappear


Something to watch out for is matching the parameters closely in water changes, shrimp are very sensitive in that regard and can easily kick the bucket if the conditions are drastically different.

Another thing I noted is you have amano shrimp, this is a divisive issue but personally I've experience plenty of aggression from them, wouldn't surprise me if they were taking the opportunity with cherries. 

The other thing is to consider mineral supplements as above mentioned, can really help the moulting process. Have you ever measured TDS?


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## MichaelJ (21 Jul 2021)

SteveMid said:


> Thanks for your reply Michael, the cherry shrimps were very small when I added them but so were the amanos. The Cherry’s that survived did grow a little but not same size as Amanos. Never been any sign of attack from the fish even when they were little. For the first couple of weeks all of the cherries were happy feeding out in the open but then started to disappear


@SteveMid It could also be the stock...  Did you try to introduce Cherry shrimps from a different source?
I got my tank breed shrimps from AquaticArts in Indiana, US and obtained info about the water they where breed in to make sure it wouldn't be dramatically different from my tank water.


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## SteveMid (21 Jul 2021)

Aqua360 said:


> Something to watch out for is matching the parameters closely in water changes, shrimp are very sensitive in that regard and can easily kick the bucket if the conditions are drastically different.
> 
> Another thing I noted is you have amano shrimp, this is a divisive issue but personally I've experience plenty of aggression from them, wouldn't surprise me if they were taking the opportunity with cherries.
> 
> The other thing is to consider mineral supplements as above mentioned, can really help the moulting process. Have you ever measured TDS?


Thanks for this. I had wondered whether I should be adding something to the tap water during my water changes. Are there good water conditioners available for shrimp or do they tend to be additives to add to the tank.

also interesting about the Amano behaviour. They can get fairly aggressive and have seen them bothering the fish to get to their food before they do and they usually win 😀


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## Aqua360 (21 Jul 2021)

SteveMid said:


> Thanks for this. I had wondered whether I should be adding something to the tap water during my water changes. Are there good water conditioners available for shrimp or do they tend to be additives to add to the tank.
> 
> also interesting about the Amano behaviour. They can get fairly aggressive and have seen them bothering the fish to get to their food before they do and they usually win 😀


If you aren't adding dechlorinator, this would deffo be a major red flag, fortunately dechlorinators are common and you shouldn't have any difficulty finding some online


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## SteveMid (21 Jul 2021)

Aqua360 said:


> If you aren't adding dechlorinator, this would deffo be a major red flag, fortunately dechlorinators are common and you shouldn't have any difficulty finding some online


Yes I do add dechlorinator at water change I was just wondering about other mineral additives as my tap water is very soft


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## Aqua360 (21 Jul 2021)

SteveMid said:


> Yes I do add dechlorinator at water change I was just wondering about other mineral additives as my tap water is very soft


Ah ok sorry,

Definitely consider a mineral supplement, dennerle do a good shrimp mineral food, conversely you can add mineral balls, but I haven't had much experience with those


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## SteveMid (21 Jul 2021)

Aqua360 said:


> Ah ok sorry,
> 
> Definitely consider a mineral supplement, dennerle do a good shrimp mineral food, conversely you can add mineral balls, but I haven't had much experience with those


That’s great, thanks, I will definitely try this and see if I can get better results 👍


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## MichaelJ (22 Jul 2021)

Aqua360 said:


> Ah ok sorry,
> 
> Definitely consider a mineral supplement, dennerle do a good shrimp mineral food, conversely you can add mineral balls, but I haven't had much experience with those



@Aqua360  The Dennerle Shrimp food looks interesting I just ordered that - Thanks for the tip!

Cheers,
Michael


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## Aqua360 (22 Jul 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> @Aqua360  The Dennerle Shrimp food looks interesting I just ordered that - Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael



Good luck!


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## erwin123 (22 Jul 2021)

I have similar issues, not sure if it is the amanos, Denison barbs, or both. I'm starting a separate small shrimp tank to allow my cherries to grow bigger/breed before introducing them to my 'main' tank.


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## PARAGUAY (22 Jul 2021)

Stumbled on this on youtube. French shrimp keeper Nicos Shrimps. Full of advice practical knowledge on all types of shrimp. Every water change is done by the drip acc. method interestingly. The amount of tanks he as is in about 100.


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## tam (22 Jul 2021)

I struggle with them too, I'm pretty sure it's something they don't like about my water - they breed enough to have some about but they don't tend to reach full adult size. I chucked half dozen in my main tank about 6 months ago maybe though and they've done much better (with amanos funnily enough), whereas the shrimp specific tank the population has declined. The big tank is fed more heavily as there are fish too, but I've also started changing that will tap/ro combo so whether that contains something they need maybe. I was using a shrimp remineraliser which you think would be ideal though so maybe it is a food thing.


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## Zeus. (22 Jul 2021)

RCS are pretty 'bullet proof' IME, there must be something seriously wrong for them not to thrive or they are hiding or something is eating them, I struggled with RCS at first in my 500l till I spotted SAE (Siamese Algae Eater) eating them, as soon as the SAE was relocated the RCS thrived and started seeing them lots also overnight. They are 'ninjas' at hiding also.

Just done a quick google and Platy Fish and Cherry Shrimp – Can You Keep Them in Same Aquarium?

BTW - Nice tank


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## Raws69 (22 Jul 2021)

must have just got lucky but I have no problems with platys and cherries….


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## Zeus. (22 Jul 2021)

Raws69 said:


> must have just got lucky but I have no problems with platys and cherries….


Mine was fine with the SAE at first, but then the SAE got bigger and got a taste for them, imagine it will be similar with the Platys


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## SteveMid (22 Jul 2021)

Hey, thanks everyone for the info and suggestions - It’s really appreciated. So glad I joined UKAPS. I’m going to try the re-mineraliser first and see what happens. So I am changing one thing at a time. If this doesn’t work then I’ll work my way through the the others one by one. I’ll update you on how I get on in a couple of months 🤞🤞🤞


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## SteveMid (22 Jul 2021)

Sole survivor seems happy enough feeding out in the open and not bothered by the tank inhabitants.


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## Zeus. (22 Jul 2021)

I did read some where that for every RCS you can see there's 10 hiding.


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## mmustelus (22 Jul 2021)

I had the same issues, they grew fast and at one point half of my females were berried. They all died. I also have raccoon tigers and I've never lost one. 
My gh and kh is similar to yours. I eventually added some montmarillonite powder and crushed egg shells and its increased my gh to about 6. I haven't lost a cherry since and I've had 2-3 rounds of babies.


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## BarryH (22 Jul 2021)

I started with RCS probably 18 months ago, buying 12 Red Sakura and I can only repeat what Zeus said above, they are pretty bullet proof. I have a number of tanks and all seem to do really well without any particular care or attention. A couple of the tanks have Harlequin Rasboras but they are the only fish I have.


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## Kevin Eades (22 Jul 2021)

Have you got any protection on the filter intake. They may be hiding out in the filter mine sometimes get in if the guard is knocked off


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## SteveMid (22 Jul 2021)

Kevin Eades said:


> Have you got any protection on the filter intake. They may be hiding out in the filter mine sometimes get in if the guard is knocked off


Thanks Kevin, I thought this might have been a problem with first batch when I lost a couple so I put fine net over intake but still lost the rest.


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## SteveMid (22 Jul 2021)

mmustelus said:


> I had the same issues, they grew fast and at one point half of my females were berried. They all died. I also have raccoon tigers and I've never lost one.
> My gh and kh is similar to yours. I eventually added some montmarillonite powder and crushed egg shells and its increased my gh to about 6. I haven't lost a cherry since and I've had 2-3 rounds of babies.


👍 This sounds quite promising. I will be looking at increasing the GH by treating the tap water on my water changes


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## MichaelJ (22 Jul 2021)

SteveMid said:


> 👍 This sounds quite promising. I will be looking at increasing the GH by treating the tap water on my water changes


@SteveMid For what its worth, the breeder I got my Neocaridina davidi's from, had their water at ~6 GH and the TDS  230-260 ppm.  If you'r worried that you Calcium content may be too low I suggest only to add some additional Calcium Chloride such as this  to whatever you're doing now to give it that extra Ca and drive up that GH a notch  (I use it myself as part of my RO/Tap water prep). And of course, look out for other causes when introducing more shrimps - (such as predation from those Platy fish as @zeus points out).  Shrimps are supposedly relatively sensitive to wide swings in TDS - its a rather vague notion to me, as I suppose it all depends on what makes up the TDS number in the first place...Oh, and drip acclimation is always a very good idea.  Anyway, I am still learning the ins and outs of shrimp keeping as well.
Cheers,
Michael


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## Gorillastomp (23 Jul 2021)

You said there were disappearing... are you seeing dead bodies ? If not then make sure they have no area to get out of the tank i.e pump wire, tubing etc...

I lot a couple of amano shrimp that way, they were escaping the tank from my water pump wire. Found them dry on the floor.


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## mmustelus (26 Jul 2021)

Montmorillonite powder also makes my planted tank crystal clear. I just found another round of babies so I think my intervention worked. Good Luck. My next plan was to go the shrimp salt route. I was not so keen on it because I have toddlers and I wanted to make the entire process as simple as possible. Having to get RO water is just an added complication and task I was not keen on.


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## dw1305 (26 Jul 2021)

Hi all,


SteveMid said:


> I was just wondering about other mineral additives as my tap water is very soft


Cherry shrimps need some hardness (dGH/dKH). They don't persist in my rainwater tanks (about 4dKH, but softer in the winter), but do really well in our tap water (about 17 dGH/dKH).

cheers Darrel


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## Swishrelic (7 Aug 2021)

To add some recent experience here particularly with big Amanos, they are savage! Pretty sure they killed two adult RCS, presumably after a moult. The damage inflicted in seconds by 2 Amanos together was pretty hard to see and terminal for the RCS so no longer keeping them hungry to eat the hair algae! I'm feeding Hikari algae wafers in enough small pieces for each of them to grab some and run off with it now and fingers crossed it works.

They are are particularly big (out of the sump specials) so maybe not so much of an issue with smaller ones but thought I'd share.

Re algae my set up is only 2 months in so have a lot but it does give great cover/food for the baby shrimp think so I can live with it for now!


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