# Money no Object â€“ Space is



## johnb (24 Nov 2008)

Hi

Time for a new planted tank, price is no object so thatâ€™s good, however space is, the gap it needs to fit into is 79cms wide.

So im think to maximise the internal space in need an external filter heater

Im after planted but am not sure if I need to inject CO2 ?, if I do then im thinking inline.

Its not going to be huge but again im think a nice piece of wood with maybe moss  \ carpet plants and some form of creeper on the wood. Im after slow moving water and crystal clear of course.

So thoughts on tanks,  kit, plants and stocking to make an effective display appreciated.

Regards

John B


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## Thomas McMillan (24 Nov 2008)

Well if money is no object, get a custom built opti-white tank! Something maybe 70 x 40 x 40 with a nice cabinet - the works. 

There's loads of filters, heaters and lighting about - just take a look at Aqua Essentials and The Green Machine, our two sponsors for an insight. 

As far as CO2 goes, it all depends on what plants you want to grow. If you want a low-tech setup, with moss, crypts, ferns and anubias etc then CO2 isn't necessarily needed. You could get away with dosing ferts and Easy Carbo. If you want to grow more challenging plants, and are going over about 2.5WPG then I'd suggest CO2 injection. You might as well seeing as you've got the budget!


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## Garuf (24 Nov 2008)

I would agree on the optiwhite, the dimensions I'd have 70l x 45h x 50w, filtration, simply put the bigger the better, something like 2 of those superfish or ehiem 2000lph deals that'd give you loads. Get a cheap regulator, no point on splashing out on that, a aquamas reactor and for lights I'd go for the cheap german one, there's not really much point in splashing out on a arcadia with 4 tubes when you're only going to use 2... 
Or alternatively, you could see if you could find one with 2x 70watt metal halides. That'd be one hell of a lighting rig.


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## Ed Seeley (24 Nov 2008)

A nice deep and wide Opti white tank and custom cabinet.  Hanging silver lighting unit.  Very large external filter in cabinet with inline heater and CO2 reactor plumbed into the filter return.  Pressurised CO2 (probably FE) with Beetle counter (to measure high bubble rates more easily).  Aquasoil substrate with decor and design of your choice.

Edit:  Thinking about it if money is no object then I'd probably rig it all up with a permanent water change rig with pipes coming in and out so water changes are simply a case of turning a few valves to pump the water out from the external and then turn another valve to top it up.  I might even be tempted to dispense with the external filter and use a sump filter, but it would be a lot more faffing about.


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## Garuf (24 Nov 2008)

Re-reading your post it sounds like you don't know what kind of set up you're aiming for, have a look at these and see which take your fancy.
http://www.cau-aqua.net/index.php?lang=en

http://www.adana-th.com/gallery.htm

http://adana.hk/hk/gallery.asp


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## Thomas McMillan (24 Nov 2008)

Hang on, if money is no object why not just get a fish house?


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## johnb (24 Nov 2008)

Thanks for the help so far, im looking for hight tech so CO2 and lighting will be crucial. However as filtration etc will all depend on volume

so im thinking 75cm Wide, and say 45 cm deep and 50 cms High - 

37 Gallons (UK) OR 44 us OR 140 Ltrs

so using 2.5wpg i need  140 watt (I think)

as for the external filter 10 x 37 Gall is 370 Gall an hour or 1500 ltrs (I think)


If anyone can check my calculations it would be apprecaited

Another question can anyone recommend a supplier who can build to order (if you not allowed to post in public please PM me)

Regards

John B


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## Garuf (24 Nov 2008)

Co2 is nice and easy, get the german lunapet external setup. 
Lighting I won't comment on as I don't know anything about this aspect. 
Filtration I would get 2 1500lph filters, this would give you loads of flow, a vital component to a healthy aquarium.


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## TDI-line (24 Nov 2008)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Hang on, if money is no object why not just get a fish house?



Or knock down a wall, build an extension, remove a chimney...


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## Dan Crawford (24 Nov 2008)

johnb said:
			
		

> Another question can anyone recommend a supplier who can build to order (if you not allowed to post in public please PM me)


Aquariums Ltd are the boys! www.aquariums.ltd.uk


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## johnb (24 Nov 2008)

Lighting

I have found this: http://www.rocketaquatics.co.uk/cla...pendant-with-moonlight-freshwater-p-1749.html

Depending upon the width this seems ideal, does any member have one ?

John B


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## beeky (25 Nov 2008)

Hey, what are you people thinking?!

ADA!!

Get the whole caboodle, lights, CO2 etc. You can then charge people at the door to come in and view it. Neil (oldwhitewood) would be at the front!


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## johnb (25 Nov 2008)

Progress but as always thoughts apprecaited

Tank: Opti White High Clarity Tank 75x45x45cm (158 ltrs)

Lighting: Arcadia Series 4 Pendant 70cm - 1x150w 5200K+ 2x24w

So filter, I have a new unused Rena XP4 - I think thats up to the job ?

I will use an extenal heater and inline CO2

Im thinking of maybe having the tank drilled ? (want to keep as much kit out of the tank as possible)
opinons on having it drilled apprecaited and of course were and how I connect it up etc ?

Regards

John B


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## Luketendo (25 Nov 2008)

Yeah have it drilled and have a sump also. You can stick whatever you want in there and use it instead of a filter.


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## Garuf (25 Nov 2008)

Don't have a sump, they off gas co2 like nobodies business. Use the filter you already have and supliment it with either a second large turnover filter or a external circulation pump similar to that used by Themulous.


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## beeky (27 Nov 2008)

I can't really see why a sump would give off CO2, unless it was fed by a wier. If the tank were drilled and water was taken from near the bottom, fed into a sump, again near the bottom then an external filter put in there it probably won't lose that much more than a normal tank with good flow.

I think Tom Barr used drilled tanks all the time now, though I don't know if he uses a sump or not.


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## vauxhallmark (27 Nov 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> I can't really see why a sump would give off CO2, unless it was fed by a wier. If the tank were drilled and water was taken from near the bottom, fed into a sump, again near the bottom then an external filter put in there it probably won't lose that much more than a normal tank with good flow.
> 
> I think Tom Barr used drilled tanks all the time now, though I don't know if he uses a sump or not.



If you're using a sump then the water has to be taken from the top of the tank by some kind of overflow (weir, standpipe, hole in the side of the tank etc.).

If you're using a closed system (like the one I think you're referring to set up by Barr) then you can take water from wherever you want in the tank, because when you switch the pump off the water stops moving (just like how your canister filter can have it's intake near the bottom).

As a sump is fed by gravity, if you had an intake near the bottom, if the return pump ever stopped the water would continue flowing happily from the aquarium to the sump until i reached the level of the intake - which wouldn't be a pretty sight!

Having said that, I've never used an overflow in a freshwater tank myself, so I can't comment on it's effect on CO2 levels - I suspect you could make a setup with minimal CO2 removing effect. If money is no object, then using up each cylinder of CO2 quicker might not even be a problem. Just use the largest one you can to minimise the inconvenience.

I would love to have a sump based system, it's SO convenient (have had them on marine tanks before). You can put as much cheap ugly effective equipment in them as you want, can add pumps for additional turnover/different flow patterns whenever you want, and do really handy things, like put a box of floss in the sump, and just syphon from the tank into the box for as long as you like, for a quick cleanup of the tank. No messing around with anything inline (heaters, co2 reactors, just chuck 'em in the sump, and leave the pump free to do what it does best - returning water to the tank at it's max rate. Really easy to change your mechanical fltration as often as you want, and never need to disturb the biological.  You can put pregnant shrimp in it to stop the fish eating the babies. I have to say, in case you haven't already guessed, I love having a sump on a tank.   And one day I'll have one again. (Not that I'm pushing for Johnb to use one, I think they really come  into their own on bigger tanks - 70cm will run great on canisters.)

Mark

Mark


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## beeky (27 Nov 2008)

Yep, good point, I didn't think of that. If the sump were large enough you could have the intake about half way up the main tank as long as the sump had capacity in case of a pump failure.


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## deMastro (27 Nov 2008)

Why dont you do just the ADA glassware?


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## Ed Seeley (27 Nov 2008)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> If you're using a sump then the water has to be taken from the top of the tank by some kind of overflow (weir, standpipe, hole in the side of the tank etc.).



Not actually true, it's just that that's the most common and probably easiest way of doing it.

All you have to do is have an intake comes up vertically from the bottom (or lower down the side) and that goes up to the height you want the water level at where you then have a 180 degree bend (with an anti-syphon hole in the top) and pipework that leads back down to the level you want to remove the water from.  In practice it would look a bit like an ehiem intake inside the tank - personally I'd have a traditional overflow!!!!  
Once the water reaches the height of the bend it will overflow down into the sump - all enclosed within pipework.


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## Ed Seeley (27 Nov 2008)

Actually just realised you could do this with glass too.  All you'd have to do is have a normal overflow in the corner then another piece of glass infront of it to take water from nearer the base.  It'd work great and no surface skimming.

On that subject I'm not sure it's really be too bad on the CO2.  As long as you don't have a trickle filter which really will gas off all the CO2 but the water running in under the sump's water surface then it wouldn't be too bad really.  I'd just rig it up with a CO2 reactor on the return pump to make sure the water going back is full of CO2.


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## jay (27 Nov 2008)

Can't see any point in going to the hard work of putting in a sump, especially as this is going to be a relatively small tank.
Any large filter under the tank will suffice.

Get a nice rimless opti-white, nice stand (whatever you like really, ADA style or integrated into your furniture)
Full glassware and top quality substrate, hardscape and plants.

If you don't want the glassware on show, then drill out the bottom of the tank and connect up the pipework to a good, suitable filter, inline heating and Co2. then make sure the inlet and outlet in the tank is hidden (hardscape and plants)
and there you go. Great tank with nothing but what you want on show.


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## vauxhallmark (28 Nov 2008)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> vauxhallmark said:
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Yup, good point - that would do it! You would lose the benefit of surface skimming, but probably reduce CO2 loss. Thanks for pulling me up!

Mark


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## johnb (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: Money no Object â€“ Space is    AquaEl External uni Max 700*

After yet more research Im thinking of a singel AquaEl External uni Max 700 for filtrations, apparently it has 2 in and 2 out flows so these can be spread round the tank for max circulation.

As a reminder here is the size and volume

Tank: Opti White High Clarity Tank 75x45x45cm (158 ltrs)

Lighting: Arcadia Series 4 Pendant 70cm - 1x150w 5200K+ 2x24w


Thoughts apprecaited.

Regards

John B


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## deMastro (1 Dec 2008)

I would buy the UV version off that filter.


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## ceg4048 (1 Dec 2008)

Hmm...200 watts over a 40 gallon tank, and a measly 700LPH rated filter? Good luck mate.  

Cheers,


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## Egmel (1 Dec 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hmm...200 watts over a 40 gallon tank, and a measly 700LPH rated filter? Good luck mate.



It's a 1700 l/h rating if that make much difference.


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## aaronnorth (1 Dec 2008)

Egmel said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
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> 
> 
> ...



yes, 1700l/ph gives 10x turnover. IMO i would just stick with the 150w metal halide, it will give you fast enough growth.


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## Garuf (1 Dec 2008)

I'd still want 2 filters, the difference they makes enough difference to warrant the cost.


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## johnb (1 Dec 2008)

hm so 1700ltr per hour is insuffcient ?, I assuemed that as it has two inlets and 2 outlets I could have the strategically  placed and that would be fine, I guess not so i need two filters - anyone suggest which two ?

Regards

John B


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## aaronnorth (1 Dec 2008)

johnb said:
			
		

> hm so 1700ltr per hour is insuffcient ?, I assuemed that as it has two inlets and 2 outlets I could have the strategically  placed and that would be fine, I guess not so i need two filters - anyone suggest which two ?
> 
> Regards
> 
> John B



1700l/ph is fine, the reccomendation for turnover is 10-20x and with 1700l you will have 10x.


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## johnb (1 Dec 2008)

thanks, feel a bit happier now, as im going to have the tank drilled, is there an obvious location for the inlets x 2 and outlest x 2 (i will aquascape of course to hide them)

Regards

John B


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## Garuf (1 Dec 2008)

Higher is always better, If it were me I'd go for 2x ex1200 and use lillys rather than drilled. 2400lph is only 700lph more but it's going to be better than 1700lph. Or even 2 of those superfish 2000lph filters George has. 
Yes the recommendation is to aim for 10x flow so you get 5 times actual but more and more people are finding higher flow to be beneficial. Just look how many of us have powerheads to boost flow, I'd say it's better to be prepared than run into trouble and have to add powerheads.


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## johnb (2 Dec 2008)

Thanks for this, its godo to get the differing opinions. So ive looked at the TetraTec EX external filter - EX1200 which seems fine and I can see advantages to haveing two filters. So taking this futher rather than then connecting an external inlien heater I could simply get two filters with heater built in (even more redundancy built in) 

So im looking for two external filters rater around 1000 lph with builting in heaters (ideally) , I will worry about lilly pipes pr drilled once the filters are selected.

Regards
John B


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## Spider Pig (2 Dec 2008)

Another option to improve flow and which would take up less space would be to have a circulation pump like this:
http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/addtob ... 1&rets=113
then attach a CO2 reactor and then an inline external heater, like the hydor 300w one.
Could even be clever and give the option to hook it up to an external pipe and so act as a water changer. Thinking of doing this myself to get rid of my internal filter.

Even if the flow was halved by resistance from the reactor and heater, you will still have 1000lph which combined with the filter would be more than enough. This would be more compact than a filter. If you get a tetratec ex1200 you will have a large filter volume and if stocking lightly with fish, further filter volume is unlikely to be of benefit. However with an extra filter you do have a degree of redundancy.


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## Dan Crawford (2 Dec 2008)

I have an eheim 2128, it's rated about right for you if you want two. It has a heater but unfortunately the element in mine doesn't work, i don't know if this is a common fault?
Cheers
Dan


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## Ed Seeley (2 Dec 2008)

And to add to Dan's comments my 2128 is working fine but the extra cables always annoy me at cleaning time!  I'd go with 'normal' externals with Hydor heaters on the pipes as then you don't need to disconnect the heater when cleaning the externals and have the heaters tucked away.

If money's no problem and you can fit them both in under the tank then I'd go with two externals rather than the pump circuit as you can't have too much filtration!


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## jay (2 Dec 2008)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> ...I'd go with two externals rather than the pump circuit as you can't have too much filtration!



Sure there is a limit to that...

*Hooks up an FX5 to 12" nano*


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## Garuf (2 Dec 2008)

I could and might do that...


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## Ed Seeley (2 Dec 2008)

I think you can have too much flow, but the volume of filter media can't be too high as above a certain point it simply won't be colonised fully and, while unnecessary, won't be a negative thing!  An FX5 with the flow turned down a bit would be fine on any small tank and it'd certainly up your volume which is all good too!

My point was that two externals would be better than an external and a pump if everything else is equal and you could fit them in.  Not necessary, but couldn't hurt.

Just to argue the other point however I personally think that for a lightly stocked tank you can get away with a lot less filter media than any of us run, but why run close to the edge?  My 180l tank has only a Juwel internal filter (with sintered glass media along with 2 pieces of foam) and that has plenty of capacity for my fish load.  I do run an internal powerhead for extra flow though.  But if money and space are no problem then why not run an extra external instead?


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## johnb (3 Dec 2008)

To much flow, not enough etc, so I've read and re read and am going for

Tetratec EX 1200 External Filter x 2

they will fit nicely in the cabinet and I will have space for the the External Heater and the inline CO2 Feed

So now I've finally decided I'm still looking to have drilled as I have no space round the back or sides due to the alcove the tank is going to fit into.

I need some help with the Drilling however, most importantly were the two inlets and two outlets should go to achieve maximum flow ?

Am I going to need some special adapters or something for the plumbing aspect ?

Thanks in advance.

Regards

John B


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## Spider Pig (3 Dec 2008)

If money is no object have you thought about LED lighting like the aquaray. Looks like the way of the future but bit pricey at the moment.


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## Garuf (3 Dec 2008)

Sounds good to me. I'd still avoid the drilled option, it'll limit you're scaping quiet badly I feel. That's not to be said it can't be done. 
The also bring up maintenance issues like detaching tubing and filters without flooding floors... 
Are you a novice? I'd personally say if so stick to "standard" fittings.


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## johnb (5 Dec 2008)

I am still quite keen on drilled mainly because of my space limitations, novice ?, in terms of some folk, yes indeed, its my second tank, my first was a touch larger see here






So if i purse drilled I do need help on postiioning and any extra kit required ?

Regards


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## vauxhallmark (5 Dec 2008)

In terms of extra kit, if you go for drilled the minimum you'll need is a bulkhead for each hole, which is a two part piece of plastic plumbing that screws in from the top and bottom of the hole, a barb for the underside of each bulkead which is an adapter that will allow you to connect the flexible tubing from your filter to it (sized for what ever tubing your chosen filter uses), and whatever plumbing you want inside the tank to position the exact points that the water will be drawn from/returned to.

The best place for plumbing advice is on reef forums, try and find a UK one so that the links are useful (otherwise it will just refer you to American hardware stores all the time). There are some great forums around, I can't remember which are the best for plumbing as I'm not at home with my bookmarks - try reefsuk.org, ultimatereef.net or marinefish-uk.co.uk/forums. Or google aquarium plumbing.

Mark


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## johnb (5 Dec 2008)

this is a worry, answering my own post

if i reduce to 1 filter thereby making the scaping a little eaiser with my drilled preference, its just a case of which filter ?

I was going for Tetratec EX 1200 External Filter x 2

So now i need filter which is up to the job ?

Looking around how about something like:

Fluval FX5, Tetratec EX 2400 , Aqua El Unimax Professional 700

Regards

John B


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## Ed Seeley (5 Dec 2008)

I'd go for the biggest you can fit in the cupboard with the highest flow rate.  I think that's the FX5 but you may need to change the ribbed hose for standard hose before you get to the fittings and the heater, CO2 reactor etc.


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## Tony Swinney (19 Jan 2009)

Any updates on this John ?  I'm just spec'ing my new tank,a nd am interested in the drilling options you arrived at ?

Cheers

Tony


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