# Fish ID



## Geoffrey Rea (6 Jul 2020)

Any help ID’ing would be greatly appreciated. Came in as by-catch with Green Neon Tetra’s.














Mixed in for scale:


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## Witcher (6 Jul 2020)

Looks like Hyphessobrycon elachys or sth similar.


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## Geoffrey Rea (6 Jul 2020)

Thank you @Witcher


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## Conort2 (6 Jul 2020)

Some sort of hemmigramus or hyphessobrycon, the amount of undescribed and similar species is massive. Hemigrammus stictus is often caught with cardinal tetras and looks similar however I believe stictus has some red on the tail.

cheers

conor


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## Geoffrey Rea (6 Jul 2020)

Thank you @Conort2

Two actually came in:









Despite the colouration differences between them the stayed close together. As the green variant has matured it is similar in all but body colour, including the faint white tips of the fins and distinctive black spot just prior to the tail fin with their stripe accentuated just above the spot.









Behaviour wise they were identical so thought maybe this pointed to same species but different sexes as a possibility.

@Witcher ‘s suggestion of Hyphessobrycon elachys is the closest I’ve seen. However, even amongst sellers fin and eye colour is very variable under that name.


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## Conort2 (6 Jul 2020)

I think elachys is from southern South America, more Paraguay and Argentina so that puts it out of the question. However with these small tetras there must be 100’s of similar undescribed species. The one with the green stripe looks similar to hemigrammus rodwayi. This is the fish sold as the gold tetra, however the gold ones found have actually been affected by a parasite and it is not their ‘normal’ colouration. Rodwayi has a massive range and probably has loads of different variants with slight variations on colour.

However chances are these are these are more than likely an undrescribed species, hopefully someone is around who knows abit more about these who could help.

cheers

conor


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## Geoffrey Rea (6 Jul 2020)

Thanks once again @Witcher and @Conort2

Finally managed to get a clearer shot:





Do appreciate this is like trying to find a fart in a jacuzzi. The assemblage that makes up _Hyphessobrycon_ has been mind boggling alone whilst searching.

Before today the best guess was Hasemania nana but they lack an adipose fin so no go:


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## Conort2 (6 Jul 2020)

The green striped one you’ve shown looks similar to rodwayi. As for this one, not a clue. Any fish that are normally sold like this are just given the name hemigrammus sp or hyphessobrycon sp with a catch location after or some Made up fancy name.

cheers

conor


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jul 2020)

Found this:



If you spin on to 1:05 you’ll see a single fish travelling from upper middle to the right of the tank. It wont hang with the group, has different fin length despite the same colouration and if you discount colour, it swims, turns and behaves differently - this is the green fish that was bycatch.

I doubt the owner in that video has even noticed one of them is different due to the extremely similar  colouration but the behaviour stands out a mile to me. Had mine for over a year now and pretty certain it will never reach the size of those Hyphessobrycon elachys despite being the same colouration, so suspect it’s not a juvenile version.


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## alto (7 Jul 2020)

Conort2 said:


> think elachys is from southern South America, more Paraguay and Argentina so that puts it out of the question.


PFK lists Brazil as well (as do some other sources)


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## alto (7 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Came in as by-catch with Green Neon Tetra’s.


Unless you’re importing direct from a private collector, “by-catch” seems an unlikely term,
It’s not unusual for fish to jump between holding pens/tanks etc while at the SA shipper or various wholesalers enroute (also odd fish often are “missed” when holding tanks are filled with new shipments)

So I wouldn’t place a lot of importance on this having been delivered in a P simulans shipment

Thanks to your thread I did see these lovely photos 

https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/hyphessobrycon-elachys-2/

(AG does mention this batch was from Paraguay)

Apologies over the multiple posts but often I’m limited in quote and copy and general manoeuvrability within the Post Box


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## alto (7 Jul 2020)

Conort2 said:


> The one with the green stripe looks similar to hemigrammus rodwayi.


Non-gold forms that ship into local shop (these appear more often than the gold version regardless of Fish List “guarantee)  appear quite different than the photo fish ... but then it may also just be a “SA tetra”


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## alto (7 Jul 2020)

Oops 
to clarify, meant that the non-gold tetras that appear in the lfs are _just a “SA tetra” _


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Unless you’re importing direct from a private collector, “by-catch” seems an unlikely term



Well this is it isn’t it. They will have gone through an intermediary handling centre.



alto said:


> So I wouldn’t place a lot of importance on this having been delivered in a P simulans shipment



Also on my mind today when evaluating the importance of location of two different species given the above comment.



alto said:


> Thanks to your thread I did see these lovely photos



Good  They're great in they’re own right.



alto said:


> Non-gold forms that ship into local shop (these appear more often than the gold version regardless of Fish List “guarantee) appear quite different than the photo fish ... but then it may also just be a “SA tetra”



Alternatively, not a leg to stand on with this theory.... but the way the green striped tetra positions itself for safety amongst other species so readily could easily explain why it’s in with a separate batch of another species  from the same area. 

It has also proven very robust against temp changes, pH and water hardness much like green neon tetras are. My understanding is green neons win the drying out pool competition compared with their relatives in the wild as they tolerate a higher temperature range compared with initial estimates (now measured at 30C plus if they must).

Probably boring everyone to tears at this point but would be very saddened not to get an ID on the green tetra given how brilliant it is in tank; understated being green in a planted tank, fearless and friendly, operates in all regions of the water column and eats anything... what’s not to love?


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> They're great in they’re own right.



They’re great in *their* own right...

You know it’s time for shuteye when you become the grammar police towards yourself 😂


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## alto (7 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Probably boring everyone to tears at this point


Not quite 

And it did remind me of the wonderful coincidence of Ivan Mikolji’s up coming  book


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## Conort2 (7 Jul 2020)

http://www.acvariidevis.ro/apa-dulce/pesti/hemigrammus-vorderwinkleri/

 it’s from the same area and looks very similar???


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> And it did remind me of the wonderful coincidence of Ivan Mikolji’s up coming book



Looking forward to this. Love his YouTube content.


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jul 2020)

Conort2 said:


> http://www.acvariidevis.ro/apa-dulce/pesti/hemigrammus-vorderwinkleri/
> 
> it’s from the same area and looks very similar???



Think you may have gone and done it @Conort2

Amazing 

Watching this video of Hemigrammus vorderwinkler and both of the fish that came in with the green neon Tetras make an appearance:



Thank you to all of you. This has made the day, really happy to have got the ID. So cool


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## MaxPedley (4 Apr 2021)

Hi, was just browsing through the internet and stumbled across this so I’ve registered with the forum in order to wade in with my thoughts and experiences. 

So to start, this fish cannot be _vorderwinkleri _unfortunately as that species shows a mid lateral stripe which connects to the peduncle spot. Therefore, I’m confident that the bronze species is _Hemigrammus schmardae _which is fairly widespread throughout the Amazon and Orinoco and is a common bycatch with _P. axelrodi _and _simulans. _

As for your other species (with the blue/green lateral stripe), that is likely to be the non parasitised form of _Hyphessobrycon saizi. _Specimens which are indeed parasitised are often imported and sold as Gold Tetras under the incorrect name _Hemigrammus rodwayi, _which is seldom imported as wild fish but still sold as captive bred animals from Singapore thought they are down wheat underwhelming. 

Sorry for the rant, but I hope this helps.


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