# Is it enough velocity guys?



## MikeJojo (29 Jul 2014)

As per title, please share your comments from your experience. 

It is usually said that streams suppose to reach front glass. With my APS 1400 in Juwel Rio 125 don't think it is achievable but I'm trying to play with size of holes in spray bar to achieve best. I took some more stuff from my filter today as well. I have left only one tray of ceramic tubes and one tray of these black plastic balls.

Here is a video.




Mike


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## allan angus (29 Jul 2014)

looks like if you angle the spray bar up a bit you will easy do it


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## MikeJojo (29 Jul 2014)

allan angus said:


> looks like if you angle the spray bar up a bit you will easy do it



But spray bar should be horizontal right? No cheating here  Ideally it suppose to have enough velocity to reach front glass right?


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## allan angus (29 Jul 2014)

well mine are angled up a bit i think its common practice and i must say from the vid you have a good flow lol  and if you angle them it will reach the glass dont see how its a cheat


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## MikeJojo (29 Jul 2014)

Thanks allan


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## ceg4048 (30 Jul 2014)

No.

Cheers,


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## Sacha (30 Jul 2014)

I have an APS 1400 in the same tank (125) and the flow is much weaker than yours in that video.


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Thanks Clive.


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Sacha, do you have any success in growing nice algae free plants aquarium in that set up?


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## Sacha (30 Jul 2014)

Yes I do. But I also run the 1000 lph internal pump alongside the APS. 

You'll see from my other thread that I am getting rid of my APS for a better filter. Their lph is just pathetic IMO.


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

[DOUBLEPOST=1406709793][/DOUBLEPOST]





ceg4048 said:


> No.
> 
> Cheers,



Clive, it just means all my trouble with size of holes to get good flow was useless and I just need to get new, more powerful filter right?

Do you have any in mind that would make it? It's for Juwel 125.

Thanks

Mike


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Sacha said:


> Yes I do. But I also run the 1000 lph internal pump alongside the APS.
> 
> You'll see from my other thread that I am getting rid of my APS for a better filter. Their lph is just pathetic IMO.



What pump do you use? Koralia 900 would be enough? And what filter are you buying now?

Mike


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## ceg4048 (30 Jul 2014)

Sorry you went through all the trouble mate. Check ebay for a used Fluval FX5. Legendary pumping power, and since it' has such high flow you might even use a reducer in the line to use your existing spraybar and still have plenty of flow, or use 25mm PVC to match the hose and just load the filter down with lots of media to reduce the throughput if it's too much for the fish.

Check this one out=> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLUVAL-FX...8?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item43ccf8ab44

It's still early (4 days left) don't bid now, wait until there is 30 seconds left till the end of the auction then bid. Ignore all that stuff about marine use. I think there's a couple pieces missing, but no big deal.

Cheers,


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Thanks Clive.

I'm just searching for options and FX5 was one of them. On other hand do you think adding koralia along with my APS 1400 would make it? I would go back to single outflow pipe instead of spray bar then and install koralia just behind it, so they would work together on the flow. Koralia would be another piece of equipment in the tank but it's much cheaper option. I'll probably be moving out in November so do not want spend extra money until then. If Koralia would be good choice, what size do you recommend?

Mike


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## ceg4048 (30 Jul 2014)

Hi Mike,
                 There are a few different combinations to supplement flow. You can use two or more of the nano 900s or just use one of the larger 900s. Again, when you look at the prices new for these you ought to compare it to what that fleabay used FX5 will cost you. If you can get the powerhead(s) used cheaply enough then that would be good.

Cheers,


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Clive, thank you for tips. FX5 is still out of my range for now. Do you have any other brand/ model in mind as good or near to FX5? I was thinking of adding Koralia Nano 1600. It's for £27.90 brand new on Amazon. What do you think?

Thanks


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## Andy Thurston (30 Jul 2014)

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/400625133154?nav=SEARCH&varId=670180232682
Work quite well with a diy spraybar if you dont mind the look or you can hide it


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Big clown said:


> http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/400625133154?nav=SEARCH&varId=670180232682
> Work quite well with a diy spraybar if you dont mind the look or you can hide it



Thanks for info but not really fancy having that in aquarium. I was really not willing to even think about such a thing like Koralia but it's the only option now I'm afraid


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## jolt100 (30 Jul 2014)

I don't mean to pirate the thread but I am having a similar issue on my 120x60cm tank and wondered if anyone else is using an Eheim compact 3000 to circulate through a spraybar? I have tried various combinations of holes but can't get the spray to reach the front glass. Smaller holes give lower velocities?? Is this a function of the impeller not being able to overcome the resistance caused by the smaller holes. I bought this for the quoted output but is there something i am missing?
Cheers 
John


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## foxfish (30 Jul 2014)

The wattage vey often tells you more about the pumps capability than the quoted flow figures.
This might not always be the case but generally low powered pumps suffer with the slightest restriction.


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Hi jolt



jolt100 said:


> Smaller holes give lower velocities?? Is this a function of the impeller not being able to overcome the resistance caused by the smaller holes.



Smaller holes = less velocity from each
Larger holes = more velocity from each

It's about an amount of water going out each hole. Take one big hole which is your hose, then you'll have a lot of velocity from that one. As you spreading your flow on more holes the less the velocity.

All that said is correct if area of all holes equal area of your outflow hose of course.



jolt100 said:


> I bought this for the quoted output but is there something i am missing?



Can't comment on that pump, sorry.

Thanks.


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## foxfish (30 Jul 2014)

MikeJojo said:


> All that said is correct if area of all holes equal area of your outflow hose of course


 I have never purposely applied that formula..... just experiment until you get what you want!


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

foxfish said:


> I have never purposely applied that formula..... just experiment until you get what you want!



Could you give me a numbers of your setup? Size of the hose, spray bar, holes and number of holes? I could again try to work something out with my spraybar. I almost gave up. If I do less holes to achieve desirable velocity then turnover would be even worse. I have APS 1400 in Rio 125  And what's about backpressure? What's more important? Movement in aquarium or turnover through the filter? Probably there is no really room for compromise, is it?

Mike


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## ceg4048 (30 Jul 2014)

MikeJojo said:


> Clive, thank you for tips. FX5 is still out of my range for now. Do you have any other brand/ model in mind as good or near to FX5? I was thinking of adding Koralia Nano 1600. It's for £27.90 brand new on Amazon. What do you think?


Well any of the popular brands will do, but to get that flow rate you'll pay similar prices. Like foxfish mentions, just try different combinations to get what you need. It doesn't have to be ideal, it just has to work. The combination of the 1600 plus the single outflow pipe is a good idea too and seems to be the cheapest solution. Try that and see how it goes, then you don't have to mess with drilling holes.

Cheers,


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## foxfish (30 Jul 2014)

I use cheap plastic overflow pipe & drill holes based on a guess, then use  different size drill bits &  electrical insulation tape to close off or enlarge certain holes etc until it works as I want.. Then once I am happy, I make a final version from my chosen pipe work... if that makes any sense?
However I also use a three speed high wattage pump for my set up (had the same pump for about 20 years or more)


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

Thanks Clive.

Foxfish, I wanted your numbers just to work out what all holes area versus hose area ratio you get. I'd appreciate if you give them to me


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## jolt100 (30 Jul 2014)

[quote="MikeJojo, post: 360582, member: 10926"



Smaller holes = less velocity from each
Larger holes = more velocity from each

It's about an amount of water going out each hole. Take one big hole which is your hose, then you'll have a lot of velocity from that one. As you spreading your flow on more holes the less the velocity.

All that said is correct if area of all holes equal area of your outflow hose of course.


I thought I had seen another thread which said use smaller holes for increased velocities. I will try larger holes, 5mm, as a last resort, at least there won't be many to drill, 64 x 2mm took a while. I've been through 3&4mm already.
Eheim don't quote wattage just output and head. Just assumed the power would be sufficient as its eheim!
Back to the workshop.
Thanks
John


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## MikeJojo (30 Jul 2014)

I went through 2mm, 3mm, 4mm and gave up on 5mm. Velocity was the best at 5mm holes but not good enough. The last resort for me is to make less holes that it supposed to be... Good luck!

Mike


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## jolt100 (1 Aug 2014)

Hi all, just a heads up, I have found that the eheim compact 3000 is my problem. It doesn't have the power to deliver the quoted output through the spraybar. I got a Aquamanta efx600 off eBay and got flow across the tank even when passing through a restricted outlet with my 16/22 atomiser and spraybar. 
Just proves you can't trust quoted figures.
Unfortunately I also had a problem with one if the hoses coming loose so am just mopping up 
Hopefully this should help getting the co2 circulating better. 
John


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## MikeJojo (2 Aug 2014)

Hi there

My Koralia 1600 arrived yesterday. Installed it straightaway and improvement in flow is really good. All plants move much more all over the tank. Can't wait and see any better growth now. I will find out in week or two 

Mike


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