# On the verge of euthanising the entire tank and starting again. Please help.



## spleenharvester (30 Jul 2021)

Hi all. I've mentioned bits of this in other posts and I apologise if it's cluttered the forum up a bit, but I'm getting really desperate.

Two months ago, a disease start spreading in my main tank, which we know originated from a guppy purchased from Ebay. The disease caused stringy white poop, unstable swimming, gasping at the top of the tank, followed by death within a few days. This disease only infected the guppies. We tried over a dozen medications, including every anti-parasitic available in the country; a wide range of anti-bacterias and anti-fungi; anti-protozoan medication imported from France; and other assorted things. It did nothing, the disease spread like wildfire and killed everything it touched - all 13 guppies were gone within weeks.






We ran UV in the tank for several weeks, then reintroduced 5 more guppies. So far, none of them are sick. Unfortunately our female bettas are now looking suspect. One of our girls, about 8 months old, started behaving reclusively - then we found her dead in one of her napping spots a few days later. No outward symptoms, injuries or signs of disease at all, just behaviour. We put it down to a one-off, but now our second female betta has started doing stringy white poops that look pretty much the same as the original disease did. I am really hoping that it's something benign but based on my atrocious luck with this tank so far, I doubt that's the case.

Has anyone got any ideas or magical medications I can try? If the disease is back then what the hell do I do now? If anything at all in there could be a carrier and it's completely untreatable then what do I do with all the surviving livestock? I can't give it away because it might spread the disease, and I can't just run the tank nearly empty indefinitely to wait and see if everything dies. I'm stuck between a rock and hard place.

Thanks.


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## MichaelJ (30 Jul 2021)

@spleenharvester ,  I am not much of an expert with livebearers, but it sounds to me like an internal parasite infection of sorts. In the past when suspecting some sort of illness in my tanks (fortunately hasn't happened for a very, very long time...) I've had luck with going heavy on water changes - say 70% 3 times a week and  combine that with a big temperature increase depending on the signs of illness - say if it looks like a parasite infection. I don't think I ever had much luck with medication alone, if at all, but I have used it in combination with the aforementioned remedies.

Perhaps someone have better recommendations, but otherwise I think it's worth a shot if you haven't tried it. ... and Keep the UV sterilizer in there - depending on the type of pathogens it may not do much though.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Koaan (30 Jul 2021)

Here are some antiparasitics you can try, check the ingredients and see what you can locate locally in UK: 

Fritz ParaCleanse 









						Fritz Expel-P
					

Fritz Aquatics is one of America's leading water quality product manufacturers for aquarium, pond, water garden and aquaculture hobbyists and professionals.




					fritzaquatics.com


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## sparkyweasel (30 Jul 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> I've had luck with going heavy on water changes


That's a good idea, helps with all sorts of problems even if you don't know the cause. 
Catappa leaves are also often helpful with fish health problems.
You could try some dried or freeze-dried Daphnia, it heps to purge the intestines.
All of these are safe to try, won't cause any problems even if they don't help.
Intestinal and digestive troubles are not always caused by parasites; what do you feed your fish?


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## MirandaB (30 Jul 2021)

Koaan said:


> Here are some antiparasitics you can try, check the ingredients and see what you can locate locally in UK:
> 
> Fritz ParaCleanse
> 
> ...


That's not available here in the UK as it contains antibiotics.


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## MichaelJ (30 Jul 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Catappa leaves are also often helpful with fish health problems.


@sparkyweasel , Do you have more info on this?  I wonder if its in part due to the acidifying properties of the leaves perhaps, 


sparkyweasel said:


> Intestinal and digestive troubles are not always caused by parasites;


Very true.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Driftless (31 Jul 2021)

Are the fish eating or have you changed their diet recently?


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## sparkyweasel (31 Jul 2021)

@MichaelJ
I think it's a combination of lowering the pH, inhibiting pathogens and parasites, and acting as a tonic to boost the fish's ability to resist disease.
There's  a lot of anecdotal information about, but I don't know of many scientific studies. Not that I've looked very hard; I'm happy to use them on the basis that they seem to work for lots of people and their fish, me and mine included.
Various other leaves release tannins, humic acids etc., and lower the pH, but they don't seem to be quite as beneficial as Catappa. Oak and beech are good. Some people report good results using Rooibos/Red Bush Tea leaves, something I haven't tried yet.
 There's some interesting info in these links, and they mention studies but don't give full references.

hu kwang
Tannin
And some science here;
Catappa


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## MirandaB (31 Jul 2021)

Just some random observations here,not saying this is the cause of the guppies demise at all but your GH is on the low side for them,I think from a past post you have a GH of 3?
Betta are not the healthiest of fish unless you can find someone who breeds them over here or someone who will go to the trouble of holding onto them for a while after import and treat them for worms/internal bacteria.
What do you feed the Betta?


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## MichaelJ (31 Jul 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> @MichaelJ
> I think it's a combination of lowering the pH, inhibiting pathogens and parasites, and acting as a tonic to boost the fish's ability to resist disease.
> There's  a lot of anecdotal information about, but I don't know of many scientific studies. Not that I've looked very hard; I'm happy to use them on the basis that they seem to work for lots of people and their fish, me and mine included.
> Various other leaves release tannins, humic acids etc., and lower the pH, but they don't seem to be quite as beneficial as Catappa. Oak and beech are good. Some people report good results using Rooibos/Red Bush Tea leaves, something I haven't tried yet.
> ...



@sparkyweasel  Very interesting. Seems like the catappa leaves contains all sorts of nice properties. Thanks for the links!

I am already using them in the tank where I keep shrimps, but will start adding them to my other tank as well.

Cheers,
Michael


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## spleenharvester (31 Jul 2021)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

They're fed a mixture of stuff including Tetra shrimp and krill, Hikari Bio-Gold, and King British guppy flakes. Nothing's really changed in that respect lately.

The GH was a bit on the low side yeah, I'm not sure if it still is, will retest.

The betta has started doing slightly normal-looking poop so fingers crossed it's a false alarm, will update if it takes a turn for the worse.


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## sparkyweasel (31 Jul 2021)

spleenharvester said:


> They're fed a mixture of stuff including Tetra shrimp and krill, Hikari Bio-Gold, and King British guppy flakes. Nothing's really changed in that respect lately.


That sounds good.
I would still give them some Daphnia, it might help and won't hurt.


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## OllieTY (25 Aug 2021)

Seeing as you've already bought every medication available, I would definitely try making up a dose of Fluke Solve and soaking their food in it before feeding.


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