# Fert  Calculator V1.8 - New version out! Check Note first/last post!



## Zeus.

*NOTE: *This calculator has now been super seeded by this new version:

*The IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator*

We will keep this post here for historical background.

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Hi all,

The IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator is an intuitive Excel based spreadsheet that does all your calculations for one or more tanks, it isn’t anything new, there are plenty of recipes, calculators, forums and sets of data already freely available that will do more or less what we set out to accomplish. The advantage is that it does it all in one place without the need for any calculations or internet and you only need to enter your details once. It is not intended for a user without any experience, as when we tried to simplify things, we found we was on the path of what was already freely available already. Making two versions also wasn’t an option, as this time was better spent on one version being as comprehensive as possible.

Download and enjoy

Its ‘International’ status is achieved by co-operation of folk from all over the world in its making and sourcing of information/data relevant to the hobby. The Metric system of units is in the core of the coding, it does also allow the end user to have Imperial units as well. We hope it is used internationally.

All prices were correct for salts and commercial fertilisers as off August 2020 and are in pounds sterling, the end user can change the currency of the nation, but all the program will do is change the currency units and not the exchange rate. It is up to the ender user to find to prices locally and keep this update if they wish, we all felt incorporating a currency convertor was a little “over the top”. If a user/group wishes to add prices for some other nation and distribute that nation version ‘kudos’ on them.

Some fertilizers are very country specific, and you may be unable to get them locally. We have tried to cover as many commercial fertilizers as possible for comparison and cloning. We are also happy to add more if you can get the data on them. We have not included fertilisers when there was not any or enough data on the product.

Why ‘IFC’ in the early stages before the program had a name, I had a personal message/thread going with the main contributors at the time, Hanuman, Darrel, X3Nith and Fablau. I thought “Fert Club” sounded good as “fert” could be pronounced “Fight” which sounded much cooler, nobody objected and then Darrel came up with the strap line and added an “I” for international and it was sealed, the IFC was formed

Ownership of this program is everybody’s – so free to use or distribute as you see fit. Please support your local forum.

Thanks to all who have helped ‘freely’ in the making of this program directly and indirectly. Without your blogs, threads, posts, articles, FAQs etc it would not have been possible.

Special thanks to

@Hanuman, without whom I dread to think how long it would have taken me, he has spent countless hours working though my coding errors to get the program as intuitive as possible. There’s a cool beer waiting in my fridge and a place at the table for you any time M8

@Darrel (aka dw1305), patience of a saint, with the reference ability of a super nano computer when doing replies to my enquires. Author of the IFC ‘strap line’

@X3NiTH (aka – ‘The Half Blood Prince’) Hope we manage to share your potion abilities with all that dare the finer arts of potion making.

@fablau – who has been maintaining and updating Rotala Butterfly for the hobby, since its original author ‘Wet’ sadly passed away



Andrew Butler – (he requested a copy of my original fert spreadsheet on 2/2/2020)

Hi Andy,

Sorry the first spreadsheet wasn’t very good; I have managed to ‘pool’ together an international team and tidy up the coding a little. Hopefully this version will meet your needs.

Zeus.
---------------------------
above update 5/12/2020
Hi Folks

I was recently asked by a UKAPS member for my fert dosing I had on an Excel spreadsheet  was my initial reaction. But in the spirit of UKAPS ie friendly and helpful, and help others as others have help you. I went about tidying my spreadsheet up and a bit of chaos to something some else could use.

In the process I discovered an error on my spreadsheet which had my tanks not getting enough Mg. Which is one of the small issues with Rotala Butterfly and other calculators, is that you have to input all your data each time choose your salt or make adjustments get the ppms then choose another salt rinse repeat add them all up . So plenty of room for human error. Having a Calculator which does it all and adds up all the ppm makes some sense IMO.

Then thought lets add the elements in the tap water, work out the GH of the tap water, Lets see the 'ratios of out fert mix', lets compare our results/ppms with fert regimes and commercial products. What are the Dry dosing weights- Think you get the picture.

Not trying to re-invent the wheel - akin to adding headlight auto dip, self activating wipers,cruise control, park assist and pro pilot. The wheels still spin the same but there's a better driving experience 

Version V1.9 coming soon

@Hanuman is on the development team and the 'Barr Team' who made Rotala Butterfly have also asked if they can help the team 










Lots of changes and made more mobile friendly - still Beta

Its feed back I am after even its just to inform me some regime isn't correct or complete, or the ppms don't match you working out, does the calculation I have on a commercial product not match your calculations. Even if you don't use it your input could help others with the whole DIY ferts dosing regime without the headache of multiple searches etc.

If you don't have Excel on your PC you can get Excel Viewer for free.

I'm not an Excel power user so be kind 

not available to download ATM - working on next release

Comparisons 

It can be tricky as manufacturers try to hide what they actually contain by supplying the analysis in format most folk dont understand - its an age old trick

So therefore I (we) have to make some assumptions to be able to compare the products

eg.

Manufacturer quotes Nitrogen as Urea so 'CO(NH2)2',  so





Therefore 100g of urea has 46.64grams of Nitrogen (N)

Will will assume all this 'N' gets converted by the bacteria in your tank to NO3 ions





So 46.64g N. / 22.59% x100 = 206.5 grams NO3

Therefore if 1.0 litre of product 'X' has 1.0% urea as Nitrogen by mass and a dose regime say 2ml per 50Litre tank

So 1.0L has mass of 1000g so in there is 10.0g of Urea or 4.664g of Nitrogen or (once the bacteria in your tank has converted it 20.65g of NO3 so 20.65g/litre NO3  or 20650mglL NO3

So product 'X' has 20.65mg per 1.0ml

Dose 2ml per 50l then 20.65mg x 2ml / 50litres = 0.826mg/L NO3 or *0.83 ppm NO3* for comparison.

Hope my explanation make sense, maths are correct and assumptions correct.

I sure @dw1305 will correct me if i'm wrong  
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I have never seen this as 'my' program, as its build on the ideas/posts/requests of users on the forums and Rolatala and Zorfoxs calculators was the go to reference points. Its for the users and made by the users and its free for everybody to use, the 'end goal' is to have a user friendly app/program you can use on any PC/Mac/mobile device to do your fert calculations 'ad free' without the need for any calculations.

Then base on the principles of 'Good Science' that's 'Accurate' , 'Peer Reviewed', 'Open', 'Honest' and 'Free'

Any one contributing to the development of this app/program does so freely and does not expect to gain any monies or gifts from it -Any 'Kudos' gained is paymant in full

Its is used at your own risks and should not be used for personal profit or gain

Cheers.

Zeus.


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## DeepMetropolis

Thanks for sharing i will test it out and compare it to my calculation based on rotalabutterfly.


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## Sammy Islam

I'm about to make a stronger EI solution so this is perfect timing. 

Cheers


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## DeepMetropolis

Hmm just filled in the macros and I got some crazy amounts compared to what I had calculated before with the butterfly site.. I will check again later on if I didn't do something wrong..


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## Zeus.

Comparisons for -
CSM+B
SeaChem Flourish

Added 



DeepMetropolis said:


> Hmm just filled in the macros and I got some crazy amounts compared to what I had calculated before with the butterfly site.. I will check again later on if I didn't do something wrong..



 If you can take a screen shot or use snipping tool and post or pm it m8


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## Witcher

Hey @Zeus. regarding the feedback, section with water re-mineralisation to desired hardness will be very useful.


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## Zeus.

Witcher said:


> Hey @Zeus. regarding the feedback, section with water re-mineralisation to desired hardness will be very useful.



Thats one of the things I was planning already and it does it to some extent with the MgSO4.7H20 which is added





But if you let me know which GH booster (with a link your using) I will add the Compound so it will do the maths and add the relevent ppms and the GH Boost  the grunt work is done so adding more shouldnt be take long.

Edit -Was also planning an RO and Tap water mix and resulting GH


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## DeepMetropolis

It seems that I filled out the wrong dosing make up of my micro mix so not so strange that it didn't made sense. Now it is filled in correctly, only thing that does not work for me is that I dry dose my Mg..





Just for comparison this is mine calculated with rotala butterffly.


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## Zeus.

Opps - couple of errors/mistakes in formulas   sorted (download updated)





Many thanks


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## DeepMetropolis

I think it is a pretty cool list also with the comparison drop down..


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## Zeus.

Still have a few tweaks to do. Also have a DIY trace chelates section almost ready to add in.



DeepMetropolis said:


> I think it is a pretty cool list also with the comparison drop down..



Yes shows you what you get (or not get!) for your money


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## DeepMetropolis

Zeus. said:


> Yes shows you what you get (or not get!) for your money



Hehe I just ordered 5kg buckets of KNO3, K2SO4 and 1kg of KH2PO4 for about 60 euro last week.. This will last me a while (lifetime? and just cost nothing compared to premade mixes.


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## Zeus.

DeepMetropolis said:


> Hehe I just ordered 5kg buckets of KNO3, K2SO4 and 1kg of KH2PO4 for about 60 euro last week.. This will last me a while (lifetime? and just cost nothing compared to premade mixes.




Well if folks spend less on ferts for the same fert regime they an pocket the money or get so more scaping gear 

The DIY fert route can be a bit daunting at first (it was for me), if 'we' can help the folk new to the hobby make transition to DIY ferts easier then that good IMO.


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## Jayefc1

Wow this is amazing @Zeus.
Am I doing something wrong it is saying I need to add 300gr of MGSO4 get 9.6ppm


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## papa_c

Hey Zeus,

Interesting spreadsheet, not sure if it is my mistake but based on the calculations I get from rotala butterfly your ppm dose/weekly for NO3 and PO4 seem massively different. Rotala gives me a 30 and 12 ppm weekly dose respectively and your sheet gives 120 and 48 for the same dose. Both a factor of 4 different.


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Am I doing something wrong it is saying I need to add 300gr of MGSO4 get 9.6ppm





papa_c said:


> I get from rotala butterfly your ppm dose/weekly for NO3 and PO4 seem massively different. Rotala gives me a 30 and 12 ppm weekly dose respectively and your sheet gives 120 and 48 for the same dose. Both a factor of 4 different.



If you can both post a screen shot of the calculator showing all the input data and results -then I can see where the problem/error is 

Big thanks guys for trying it out


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## papa_c

Here you go....


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## Jayefc1

Beat I can do as I'm using my phone


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## Zeus.

papa_c said:


> Here you go....
> 
> View attachment 132045



Big help - found error and sorted it  ( with my tank, volumes and salts it was right, your it was way off , sorted the error in formula and now mine data is unchanged,but yours is correct )







Jayefc1 said:


> Am I doing something wrong it is saying I need to add 300gr of MGSO4 get 9.6ppm



Hard to say without the tank details entered as well - but probably same issue as 'papa'

Update uploaded 

Thanks again Guys


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## Jayefc1

I had entered my tank details


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## Jayefc1

Thanks il do the update glad to help mate really appreciate  the time and effort your putting in to this I wouldnt know where to start


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Thanks il do the update glad to help mate really appreciate  the time and effort your putting in to this I wouldnt know where to start



Well it helps me as then I know I will have a calculator thats easy to use and works with little to no  effort  so its a WIN WIN for us all



Jayefc1 said:


> I had entered my tank details View attachment 132052



Used your details and with the fix I just did the results was better ( it was the 'Factor Four bug'   )






Slight formatting differences above as V1.1


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## Jayefc1

Do.i need to.down load again


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Do.i need to.down load again



if your on V1.0 to V1.2 it will be fine as differences are mainly cosmetic 
-------------------------------------

Updated first post about the comparisons and in  V1.2 I've added 'ADA mighty Brightly Nitrogen' for comparison


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## Zeus.

*V1.3 released *





Sorted out how to choose your salts so you can select them and it adds them to your list - saves values if deselected and restore if you choose them again eg if deselected sets value to "0" but has the value saved.
Big back end redesign - 'boring stuff' but will make adding more salts easier long term.

Had to learn some Excel Visual Basic to get the program to work the way I was after but should have lots of scope to add lots more features so you can set it all up to suit your needs without seeing everything so one version should be able to suit everybody - when done OFC

Lots still to do 

All Feedback welcome

Request for salts to be added will speed them up the list be added OFC


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## Jayefc1

Wont let me choose my salts mate dont know why


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Wont let me choose my salts mate dont know why



Thought that might be a little issue with the 'Excel Macro Enabled Spreadsheet'  Just tried it on phone and same issue but was still able to adjust the details of tank size amount of salts etc, so it isnt a big issue IMO, it just means when using Excel veiwer you cant pick/choose your salts etc. The options/salts to be used are picked when you first use the app, then after that the 'Active X" controls are not used.

So I will make the STD download available with the most likely salts so ready for most folk (already done) using mobile devices, and will add another download link with the full array of options pre enabled !!!

Folks using normal Excel on PC will have full functionality from the start, mobile users may need to use a PC ( or ask a friend) to select some stuff then upload file to mobile device  so a little more effort for mobile users at first 

Will add a checkbox to close/hide all the main options as once selected no need to see them plus better for mobile users too Edit Done


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## Andrew Butler

Zeus. said:


> I was recently asked by a UKAPS member for my fert dosing I had on an Excel spreadsheet  was my initial reaction


Aren't you going to name and shame them?


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## Ivan Stoyanov

What are ideal ca:mg:k and no3o4:k ratios, can someone to tell?


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## Zeus.

Andrew Butler said:


> Aren't you going to name and shame them?



Think they already know your a PITA M8  



Ivan Stoyanov said:


> What are ideal ca:mg:k and no3o4:k ratios, can someone to tell?



Well according to T Barr there are no ideal ones its all about Liebig’s law, there was much debate about it in Mg in Tapwater but T Barr was suggesting a ratio for awhile some time back but more recently dismissed it, below is a quote from Darrel



dw1305 said:


> My guess is that Liebig’s law of minimum is more important than ratios, but that they both are relevant to some degree.



  which says a lot about much of what we think/say/post/read there isnt an answer that has hard proof to support it 100% either way


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## Jayefc1

It's a shame cause I think most people use there phones now days just for ease of access


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> It's a shame cause I think most people use there phones now days just for ease of access



Well you can run Maros if you have the MS full product on your phone





But "Excel viewer" doesn't have any Functionally for macros as far as I am aware ATM


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## Jayefc1

Maybe as you said make 2 versions available one for mobile where all salts are there and one for PC is that much more work


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Maybe as you said make 2 versions available one for mobile where all salts are there and one for PC is that much more work



No same version will work on PC and mobile, I just save with all options enabled  So Full Excel users can just disable the options


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## Zeus.

CSM+B added as a salt to use  so you choose APFUK Trace or CSM+B Trace or mix of both if you like





So fill List of salts to use ATM








ready to download with options checked in advanced section


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## Jayefc1

Zeus. said:


> No save version, just save with all options enabled


I have one if you need i could email.it to you


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> I have one if you need i could email.it to you



opps typo  have correct the post 



Zeus. said:


> No same version will work on PC and mobile, I just save with all options enabled  So Full Excel users can just disable the options


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Maybe as you said make 2 versions available one for mobile where all salts are there and one for PC is that much more work



Done  two links in first post 

I will be working mainly on the non macro version for some time, as unfortunately adding rows and columns in Excel doesn't update the macro code as well  so it is slowing the development process down updating the code all the time as I add salts etc  But I have learnt what I needed on how to do it 
So when I have further developed the app, I will be able to do the macro code so end users can customise it to suit their needs.


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## Zeus.

Thought I would add a little calculator to calculate tank volume based on tank dimensions and thickness of glass and work from the depth of water to bottom of glass of the tank to surface of water, then add the same measurement so at WC you just measure the distance from bottom of tank to water level. With it removing the glass thickness for each calculation.

Simple enough to do and calculate 





Had to modify my tanks details  had never got the tape measure out and did the actual calculation, had just used the tanks specs from the manufacture 

needless to say my fert levels just increase 

(upload the update to Non Macro version download)


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## Sammy Islam

That's actually just what i needed to work out, the realistic amount of water my tank actually holds, the AS900 is rated 186L.

According to the calculator an AS900 holds realistically about 145-150L, then i have to account for soil and hardscape, 27L and 22kg. So i would be looking at around 120L actual volume?

I've been dosing for 160L tank, so i've been massively over dosing? 

Might have to do a reset and recalculate my ferts


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## Zeus.

Sammy Islam said:


> I've been dosing for 160L tank, so i've been massively over dosing?



Over dosing isnt a real issue thats the premise of EI dosing its all about ferts in EXCESS so no reset needed m8 

But nice to get the maths right if its easy OFC.

Have just done another update where you can add your Filter volume so if you clean that at WC it adds up the extra water in the filter also.





Knowing the amount of water added on WC day will come in handy when the RO water section gets integrated so the user will be able easily how much water has been added and the amount of salts to add and the resultant change in dH.

I classed my WC and still do at 50% for EI dosing, as when I do a WC the distance of the water level to the substrate level is about half that of when its full

Was chatting with Clive some time back and he replied



ceg4048 said:


> Mate, whenever someone shows me a spreadsheet or some on-line calculator I always feel a wave of nausea. I mean, really, why all the calculations? For your size tank why not just dump 2 teaspoons KNO3, 1 teaspoon of KH2PO4 3X per week and 1 teaspoon trace 2X per week. End of story. Ifyou think you need Mg then just toss a couple teaspoons of the Epsom Salt in at water change. This is science, but it doesn't have to be Rocket Science. I just use the 2:1:1 rule and call it good. i don't even look at those stupid spreadsheets. It's just so energy sapping.



Think it was akin to getting a PC but then having to write the operating system for it to work 

So the aim of the app is do all the calculations with a few keystrokes of tank details and choose the relevant salts and the results are all on one page - DONE easy


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## Jayefc1

Zeus. said:


> Was chatting with Clive some time back and he replied


I do miss Clive he was so straight to the point and always spot on with his advice


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> I do miss Clive he was so straight to the point and always spot on with his advice



and took no prisoners as well  

Thing is when Clive had his tank auto dosers was expensive and so was digital scales, I was making a Macro mix up once 2litres and on teaspoon number 20 or 25 wife came in telling the urgent news and I forgot where I was up too  I then moved my dirty socks to the right place to correct the emergency  so had to guess where I was up to or scrap the mix. So weighing the salts makes sense IMO

and another Clive quote from a pm was



ceg4048 said:


> When I get my tank up and running I'll have a look at the autodosing.



so even Clive was open to the idea of auto dosing for convenience. 

Think thats way we have a fert dosing rest day as it was a rest for having to get the spoons out hence many only dosed Micros x2 per week. Perhaps with our Auto dosers we should have Macros x4 a week and Micros x3 a week after all plants dont get to rest. Oh BTW in the latest update you can dose the Macros and Micros different amounts and times per week


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## Jayefc1

LMAO ohhh the real emergency of dirty socks we have all been there probs just not at that particular important moment


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## Zeus.

Sammy Islam said:


> That's actually just what i needed to work out, the realistic amount of water my tank actually holds, the AS900 is rated 186L.
> 
> According to the calculator an AS900 holds realistically about 145-150L, then i have to account for soil and hardscape, 27L and 22kg. So i would be looking at around 120L actual volume?
> 
> I've been dosing for 160L tank, so i've been massively over dosing?
> 
> Might have to do a reset and recalculate my ferts



Just spotted an error in the volume calculation when I was adding the new RO water section . update soon


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## Zeus.

Sammy Islam said:


> That's actually just what i needed to work out, the realistic amount of water my tank actually holds, the AS900 is rated 186L.
> 
> According to the calculator an AS900 holds realistically about 145-150L, then i have to account for soil and hardscape, 27L and 22kg. So i would be looking at around 120L actual volume?
> 
> I've been dosing for 160L tank, so i've been massively over dosing?
> 
> Might have to do a reset and recalculate my ferts



updated download- the error was that it wasnt converting the bottom glass form 'mm' to'cm' so if your glass was 10mm thick it was calculating it as if it was 10cm thick  well it accounts for all the hardscape we could say


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## Jayefc1

Ive downloaded the new mobile one not going to lie it's starting to.get a little time consuming and complicated dont know if I'm.missing it but would also like it to tell me the ppm I'm aiming for for each salt for the size of tank


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> Ive downloaded the new mobile one not going to lie it's starting to.get a little time consuming and complicated dont know if I'm.missing it but would also like it to tell me the ppm I'm aiming for for each salt for the size of tank



Just select the regime eg for Clives pick option2 and-





Its does show the tap water ppms as working on the RO section  ATM and just took a quick screen shot 

Thanks for taking the time to 'test the program' without feedback it would be harder to get it all sorted 

Dont let the testing/feedback cut too much into your 'free time'  do it 'if' or 'when' you get time.

I wouldn't hold it against anyone who doesn't help or stops helping, 'real life' first


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## Sammy Islam

Zeus. said:


> Just spotted an error in the volume calculation when I was adding the new RO water section . update soon



Thanks zeus, i've just checked again and using the dimensions 90x50x45 gave me 186L which is what the AS900 is rated at, but should i be using the "from the bottom of tank" measurement as 44cm? This gives me about 180L, so with hardscape and soil im looking about 150L which is good as im dosing for a 160L.


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## Zeus.

Sammy Islam said:


> Thanks zeus, i've just checked again and using the dimensions 90x50x45 gave me 186L which is what the AS900 is rated at, but should i be using the "from the bottom of tank" measurement as 44cm? This gives me about 180L, so with hardscape and soil im looking about 150L which is good as im dosing for a 160L.



Thanks for the feedback 

Very easy to make a mistake in the calculations when a simple line in the code look like "=IF((F18)=0,(""),( ROUNDUP((((F4-(F7*0.2))*(F5-(F7*0.2))*(F6-F18)*0.001)),1) ))"  

Doing the Water hardness was a real PITA as there are so many different units  but getting there


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## Sammy Islam

Thanks for putting the time in, really love where this is going!


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## Zeus.

Update V1.4 has new features - link for download in first post

Calculates tank Volume




RO/Tap water mix - with fail safes , allows RO users to find what the tap water is adding via adding the [Ca] & [Mg) from local water report and gives the ratio




Tells you how hard your water is and what the °dGH  for each salt based on the volume of tap water you add




Water change calculator from depth of water before and after WC so you can choose to use the volumes if you wish- based on your tank dimensions 






Different Dosing for Macros and Micros




Yields from salts added auto appear/disappear when salt amount added or set to '0'  More salts/traces added




Total results table with °dGH added from all salts added and adds up the 'main' minerals from tap water or RO/Tap water mixes




Removed 'all' the checkboxes so less of a pain
I do plan for two versions
1.  mobile version which will show everything
2. Full excel version which will auto hide sections when the Value '0' is entered - need to enable macros for that to work.

What salts need adding ???? I went though some of the salts on rotala butterfly for increasing the °dGH and they was so expensive I couldn't see the point in adding them !

Commercial products  ???? for adding ???

Think I have all the Calculations correct


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## Jayefc1

WTF your tank isnt the tardis lmao 

Just been through done all the calculations looks pretty good to.me now it can be far off all I would say is I make all in one solutions so I just did it as 2x 500ml bottles may be add the E202 and E300 in there


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## Andrew Butler

Just to be clear; at present there's only the one version to download?


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## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> WTF your tank isnt the tardis lmao



Do plan a few off these 



Jayefc1 said:


> Just been through done all the calculations looks pretty good to.me now it can be far off



well depends how far we take it 



Jayefc1 said:


> I make all in one solutions so I just did it as 2x 500ml bottles may be add the E202 and E300 in there



So a 'potion master' pick a AIO box and app does the rest - good idea - have you got a link to the AIO 'potion/fert

I have added that into 'Andrew Butler' trace mix spreadsheet already - you have that already just 'unhide' the 'Trace Mix' worksheet. At the bottom 

But yes will have it added for each volume of fert 




Andrew Butler said:


> Just to be clear; at present there's only the one version to download?



Yes the PC version with full 'macros enabled worksheet' is on hold ATM - more of a tweak near the end  so the 'macros enabled worksheet' has nothing to do with the Macros we dose


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## Andrew Butler

Zeus. said:


> Yes the PC version with full 'macros enabled worksheet' is on hold ATM


I'm a bit off yet anyway


Jayefc1 said:


> all I would say is I make all in one solutions so I just did it as 2x 500ml bottles may be add the E202 and E300 in there


I'm in favour of all in one BUT there seems so much negativity about it.


Zeus. said:


> I have added that into 'Andrew Butler' trace mix spreadsheet already


haha - is my link different to the one on the thread then? I won't share it, don't worry


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## Zeus.

Andrew Butler said:


> is my link different to the one on the thread then?



No- that was the foundation of the present 'DIYFert' spreadsheet . Have locked all the non input cells in the 'DIYTrace' spreadsheet and the tank details and main trace dosing details taken from 'DIYFert' spreadsheet - the nuts and bolts of the Custom 'DIYTrace' mix are unchanged but still 'Alpha' at present. Have updated download so both spreadsheets show


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## Wookii

Zeus. said:


> Think thats way we have a fert dosing rest day as it was a rest for having to get the spoons out hence many only dosed Micros x2 per week. Perhaps with our Auto dosers we should have Macros x4 a week and Micros x3 a week after all plants dont get to rest. Oh BTW in the latest update you can dose the Macros and Micros different amounts and times per week
> View attachment 132215



Great work on this spreadsheet @Zeus. If you are planning to build in auto-doser usage somehow, bear in mind that the Jebao auto-dosers that most people use (and probably applies to the D-D auto-dosers too) work on an alternate day basis, which means they are essentially on a 14 days cycle, so Week 1 will have 4 x macro and 3 x micro, but week 2 will have 3 x macro and 4 x micro, repeating ad infinitum.

PS - What version are you at now, is it still 1.4? - It might be worth you adding a download link to the latest version on your forum signature, to save trying to find this thread?


----------



## Sammy Islam

Wookii said:


> Great work on this spreadsheet @Zeus. If you are planning to build in auto-doser usage somehow, bear in mind that the Jebao auto-dosers that most people use (and probably applies to the D-D auto-dosers too) work on an alternate day basis, which means they are essentially on a 14 days cycle, so Week 1 will have 4 x macro and 3 x micro, but week 2 will have 3 x macro and 4 x micro, repeating ad infinitum.
> 
> PS - What version are you at now, is it still 1.4? - It might be worth you adding a download link to the latest version on your forum signature, to save trying to find this thread?



I have the D-D doser and they dose exactly when you want them to. 3x macro (mon,weds,fri) and 3xmicro (tues,thurs,sat) a week without having to set it up staggered like the jebao.


----------



## Zeus.

Wookii said:


> latest version on your forum signature, to save trying to find this thread?





Thanks for all the ideas guys  had few few myself


----------



## Jayefc1

Zeus. said:


> So a 'potion master' pick a AIO box and app does the rest - good idea - have you got a link to the AIO 'potion/fert


At the moment I just use James planted tank solution but am going to try and adapt it to the new spread sheet


----------



## Wookii

Sammy Islam said:


> I have the D-D doser and they dose exactly when you want them to. 3x macro (mon,weds,fri) and 3xmicro (tues,thurs,sat) a week without having to set it up staggered like the jebao.



I knew I should have bought that one instead!! Lol


----------



## Sammy Islam

Wookii said:


> I knew I should have bought that one instead!! Lol



Well worth the extra cost IMO. It literally takes 2mins to set up fully (priming, calibration and programming) which was amazing and can be controlled through the app (which can be annoying sometimes) to dose manually or set a programme.

Also their support team was great when i contacted them, i think they responded the same day.


----------



## Zeus.

Jayefc1 said:


> At the moment I just use James planted tank solution but am going to try and adapt it to the new spread sheet



Ran the doses and salt amounts though the calculator and the ppms from the calculator was the same as 'Jimmys'. Will have it so it does all the calculations for the AIO for you soon


----------



## Jayefc1

You have the patience of a saint mate sitting and righting that code


----------



## Zeus.

New version out V1.5 -download links updated






Made many changes to make it more mobile friendly so not as much on one worksheet, with links that open other worksheets, if you do the 'Tank Wizard' and Water Report Wizard first all features will unlock on 'DIY Fert' spreadsheet, the end user can do as much or little of the 'Tank and Water Report' as they wish to gain the result they are after.

Trying to code it so a 'macro enabled worksheet' hopefully wont be needed, having multiple worksheets will make it easier as once one is done with all salts dead easy to clone it then cut out salts most folk done use so less on 'say' the 'APFUK Basic Salts' worksheet 

Also prep for the 'Headshot ppm/regime'  and 'All in One Master' splitting the worksheets up 'should' make further development easier.

Saying the 'Tank Wizard' was a coding challenge would be an understatement  - but its pretty much there ! Does the RO/Tap water mixes and adds in the minerals from the Tap water gives the GH from the mix etc

Once I'm happy with the four active worksheets for Beta release, there may be a few  the next should be easier as I will be able to clone say the 'DIY Macro and Micro Fert Mix' worksheet for the 'Headshot ppm/regime' one and much of the links to the other worksheets will be already done alone with quick links added.

There the odd '#DIV/O!' cell here and there, which will auto correct when certain values are entered - just needs a little code tuning here and there to handle '0' inputs. Also a few 'reference cells' here and there which I have yet to take out/hide as I'm still using them 

I could rattle on about the changes but I wont 

Any/All feedback (errors found) welcome, if/when you have time


----------



## jolt100

Hi zeus, I downloaded V1.4 ok but 1.5 says "page not found". I'm on Android,  not pc.
I use CaNO3 + K2CO3 to increase GH/KH (very soft - especially with all the rain) so it would be useful to be able to include them in the macros.
Superhero
Cheers 
John


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Hi zeus, I downloaded V1.4 ok but 1.5 says "page not found". I'm on Android, not pc



Opps sorry about that  only check the link in my sig, link in thread had a typo  sorted



jolt100 said:


> I use CaNO3 + K2CO3 to increase GH/KH (very soft - especially with all the rain) so it would be useful to be able to include them in the macros.



 I will add them next m8  I have yet to get my head round the calculations for KH 

Thanks for asking, as I don't want to add salts folk don't use


----------



## jolt100

Thanks, link working now.


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Thanks, link working now.



Your welcome
nearly there - so far using :[CO3]x0.09353=°dKH

Got to pre-release stage ( just random grams added for checking )




Got some checking to do and add CO3 as a compound in the weekly Macro mix and resultant weekly ppm KH etc, but time for tank maintenance


----------



## Zeus.

Done





same download as before - needs a little fine tuning but any errors please post back 

Just learnt about Excels 'conditional formatting' tool as well  so few teaks on Tank Wizard' page


----------



## Witcher

Hey @Zeus. couple of another thoughts:
1. shouldn't the hydrated ferts have drop down list (or something similar) for hydration? For example MgSO4 x (drop down list for 7H20, anhydrous etc).
2. I think active table for calculating amount of CO2 with relation to kH and pH could be very useful, for example you enter your kH and pH you have and it will give you amount of CO2 (or carbonic acid for some freaks  ) present in the water.
3. accumulation table - measuring as it says on the tin: accumulation of ferts depending on the amount of fert we add with relation to percentage of water changes


----------



## Zeus.

Witcher said:


> 1. shouldn't the hydrated ferts have drop down list (or something similar) for hydration? For example MgSO4 x (drop down list for 7H20, anhydrous etc).



Had a few ideas of how to deal with 'MgSO4 x' - but just added the main one ATM (or the one I use), if your/anyone is using a different one, I will put it on my every increasing 'to do list' 



Witcher said:


> I think active table for calculating amount of CO2 with relation to kH and pH could be very useful, for example you enter your kH and pH you have and it will give you amount of CO2 (or carbonic acid for some freaks  ) present in the water.



Have a 'pH Phantom' planed - so when basically when enough info is inputted the 'pH Phantom' pops up and gives the result 



Witcher said:


> accumulation table - measuring as it says on the tin: accumulation of ferts depending on the amount of fert we add with relation to percentage of water changes



again had thought of tha,t but other apps do that well already, it would be done when other features have been done.


Been having lots of ideas, just takes time to get them done. Also trying to keep the download small and mobile friendly.

Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Zeus.

Witcher said:


> 1. shouldn't the hydrated ferts have drop down list (or something similar) for hydration? For example MgSO4 x (drop down list for 7H20, anhydrous etc).



Sorted, was pretty easy - did it in the back end so it automatically changes the molecular weight of the compound  and formula and adjusted the percentage of the relative elements





so enter which Hydrate say 4 or seven off top of my head 







and







Program adjusted the Mg ppm and GH for the different salts - not sure there is a 4 hydrate  But once you let me now what hydrates there is will do the code so it rejects the ones that dont exists 

So should be in next update


----------



## Zeus.

Upcoming updates done





so if same volumes used for both and frequency,  auto sets same for Macros/Micros and AIO





Enter for different dose or volume size or frequency




updates the dosing regime for macros/micros and resulting doses




Plus able to hide salts not being used




goes to


 
Similar Hide if trace salts have zero entered for amount

All prep work for the 'Headshot ppm' and 'AIO Master'  (sorry about the 'cheesy names' just adds a bit of Fun to the coding ATM)


----------



## jolt100

Hi @Zeus, thanks for all the effort. It's certainly made me rethink my additions, I took the "you can't have too much"  approach and never bothered calculating all the combinations just threw a bit more in of everything but the ability to see what the changes do has been very helpful. 
Hope the plants appreciate your efforts 

Thanks again 
John


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Hi @Zeus, thanks for all the effort. It's certainly made me rethink my additions, I took the "you can't have too much"  approach and never bothered calculating all the combinations just threw a bit more in of everything but the ability to see what the changes do has been very helpful.
> Hope the plants appreciate your efforts
> 
> Thanks again
> John



Thanks for the positive feedback 

Just working on the 'Headshot ppm/regime' where you enter your target ppms for No3,Po4,K etc choose your salts and presto it does the lot even does the ratios for if using two salts for nutrient, even allows for your waters minerals, then gives you the mass of each salt and nice report, worked out how to do it, just got the code to sort


----------



## Zeus.

Version 1.6 has 'Headshot ppm/regime'

Which seems to working quite well IMO

Set tank up up water report etc,

Set your target ppm with 'multi' compare down down regimes/com ferts





select the salts you use or combination for each 'primary' nutrient group for the salt.





so I will choose them all (except Ca(NO3)2.4H20 - as my tap water as plenty of Ca) Plus my tap water wasnt being use in this example. The number you enter in the nutrient group will use that ratio within the 'nutrient' group' and work out the percentage of how much of each salt to use for each nutrient. The number is only relevant for that group - so if two in group and you enter 1:1 or 768:768 the result will be the same 50% of each salt  Set hydrate for some salts also 





Your done 

your tap waters nutrients has been added and the salts added to reach your target ppm








*Headshot *

report of your salts to add and their individual results and dry dosing option






Plus further breakdown of what each micro trace fert has added.

Auto reveal/hide is salt used or not.

There 'may' be a few minor errors in code but all seems fine on release V1.6

Feedback esp the errors  

Any more 'salts to add folks ?

'Keep Safe'


*
*


----------



## Zeus.

'Clone Wizard' does what is says - its on the 'Headshot ppm/Regime '




Download updated


----------



## jolt100

Hi,  the tap water volume entered in the tank wizard doesn't transfer to the other pages now,  it does in v 1.5
Cheers 
John


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Hi,  the tap water volume entered in the tank wizard doesn't transfer to the other pages now,  it does in v 1.5
> Cheers
> John



Cheers for that John

Sorted the code and download sorted


----------



## Zeus.

Coming soon 'Salt Solubility Level'

it will be set at 75% default Via 'Water Report Wizard'






Then if you dose over that level in your dosing containers for the individual salts warning will pop up.
You will be able to adjust the 'Salt Solubility Level' to suit the end user.

The 'Salt Solubility Level' for any salt will be for 20C only.

Checked with our Expert about what level to use



dw1305 said:


> Yes 75% sounds a good idea. You would need to set a temperature (20oC?).
> 
> I think there are too many variables to easily work out the total solubility of a salt mixture, due to the <"common ion effect"> etc.
> 
> cheers Darrel



So might have it set so you get the 'Darrel's Bowled Award' if you go over the 75% level and have his Bowling Pic pop up


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Zeus. said:


> 'Darrel's Bowled Award' if you go over the 75% level and have his Bowling Pic pop up


I need a new avatar, I'm considerably more decrepit than that now. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I need a new avatar, I'm considerably more decrepit than that now.
> 
> cheers Darrel



 dont fix was isn't broken


----------



## jolt100

Hi @zeus,  found something else, sorry  
On the new headline page it doesn't calculate the K from K2CO3 and shows -ve amounts of K2SO4 an CaCl2 in the dry salts added. 

Cheers 
John


----------



## Zeus.

In middle of WC atm.

Any chance of a screen shot ?

The maths/coding is quite tricky to suit every section, so bound to get a few 'glitches'

Thanks for posting


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Hi @zeus,  found something else, sorry
> On the new headline page it doesn't calculate the K from K2CO3 and shows -ve amounts of K2SO4 an CaCl2 in the dry salts added.
> 
> Cheers
> John



Think I found it  Updated download 

Thanks again 'John'


----------



## Zeus.

jolt100 said:


> Hi @zeus,  found something else, sorry
> On the new headline page it doesn't calculate the K from K2CO3 and shows -ve amounts of K2SO4 an CaCl2 in the dry salts added.
> 
> Cheers
> John



Found another 

negative values  but found the fix  (well learnt a bit more code)

IF(AG1>0,($AG$1/A7/100*HSPF!AN38)-(AH9+AH7+AH23),0) could give positive and negative values 

But

MAX(($AG$1/A7/100*HSPF!AN38)-(AH9+AH7+AH23),0) gives positive value or Zero 

Download updated


----------



## jolt100

?


Zeus. said:


> IF(AG1>0,($AG$1/A7/100*HSPF!AN38)-(AH9+AH7+AH23),0) could give positive and negative values
> 
> But
> 
> MAX(($AG$1/A7/100*HSPF!AN38)-(AH9+AH7+AH23),0) gives positive value or Zero



??? I'm sure you are right ☺ I think?


----------



## Zeus.

'Salt Solubility Wizard' released





Does a report in the 'Water Report Wizard'  ( which cloned Commercial Fert regime gave that result in 1.0 litre container  and 100ml dose??)

Show in the 'Headshot Wizards' report which salt has exceeded the SSL





Linked hyperlink to the 'Water Report Wizard' also added.

Clone list increased

Few errors corrected

Download updated

"Keep Safe"


----------



## Zeus.

Haven't stopped working on this I am in the process of clarification of the E.I. [Mg.] and [Ca.] weekly ranges from the Barr Report *Ei Dosing Range For [mg] And [ca]
*
Well from Rolata Butterfly Calculator the range if you select the right salts is

Mg 5-10ppm weekly
Ca 15-30 ppm weekly

But thought I would run it by the guys over at Barr Report as well


----------



## Zeus.

Minor update - Salt solubility added to salts added in 'DIY Macro & Micro Fert Mix' with report for salts in water Wizard - same download


----------



## Zeus.

Version update to V1.7 - download link in first post or my sig

No reply from Barr report so I take it the range for Ca & Mg is-
Mg 5-10ppm weekly
Ca 15-30 ppm weekly
as per Rolata Butterfly Calculator

So for 'Clone Wizard' I've added a selection of EI ranges 'Low','Med' and 'Full'

Tided up a few areas and Clone list adding the EI ranges





Any errors, salts missing, regimes or commercial ferts which need adding let me know


----------



## Zeus.

Minor update same download/version

If you have entered your WC volume or Used the 'Tank Wizard' and then filled in the details in the 'Water Report Wizard', the 'Water Report Wizard' shows you what you have added extra to your tank based on Tap/RO water added and total volume off tank, the WC below was 55% WC with my tap water ( I dont have any PO4 in my tap water, but added it to illustrate)


----------



## Zeus.

Minor update same download/version

Typo -'TMC' changed to 'TNC'

Unlocked two cells for salts with variable hydrate so adjustments can be made.


----------



## Zeus.

Latest Version V1.8 released - download in first post and Sig

Improved quite a few bits here and there and added TPN to compare and Solufeed TEC to dose( great bulk buy of a trace ), main feature is a help file (which still working on) help for each section is on the page. Salt names added for folk not use use to chemical formula, improve layout and some coding 

Big thanks to @EA James who has helped me make it more user friendly.

Still lots to do OFC

Any problems/errors please let me know


----------



## Zeus.

To help the comparison of-

'CSM+B', 'APFUK Trace' and 'Solufeed TEC' I decided to use the baseline dose of CSM+B

21grams of 'CSM+B' in 500ml of water , dose 2ml daily per 100litre tank -so 14ml per week.

21/500x14= 0.588grams of CSM+B per 100litre tank 

Used the 0.588 grams per 100 litres per week as the baseline comparison for all three trace salts

Just makes sense IMO

in the comparison it shows as 0.6g/100l/week but the actual mass used was 0.588grams in the calculations

Just so happens that they all give approximately 0.5ppm Fe per week when dosed at 0.6g/100l/week 

Just uploaded the revised file


----------



## EA James

Zeus. said:


> Big thanks to @EA James who has helped me make it more user friendly.



You're more than welcome, it's nice for a beginner like myself to actually be able to help an expert like yourself


----------



## Zeus.

EA James said:


> expert like yourself





More like I'm  '*Standing on the shoulders of giants'* - all I've done is put the info in another format.


----------



## Zeus.

Tropica plant growth specialised fertiliser handy reference about Tropica premium/Specialised fertiliser and James planted Tank on TPN/TPN+





So as mentioned in another thread by @jaypeecee

'Tropica Plant Nutrition'  is the same as 'Tropica Premium Nutrition'

'Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus' s the same as 'Tropica Specialised Nutrition'

OK that makes sense to me now and can work with that


----------



## Zeus.

Upcoming update

*Calcium Carbonate  CaCO3 
*
With its relatively low solubility adding it to the dosing mix is a waste of time OFC, so when you have a target [CO3] and pick CaCO3 as a salt gives the amount to add as weekly dry dose to suit the water added in WC




 

*Urea* added as Salt with a warning in helpfile about its use OFC 



 I will have a tick box that manual has been read before it gives results for Urea salt

*Cost of fert mix and  Cost Comparison*

I've new page where the costs of salts have been entered, which user will be able to change for the amount purchased, works out the cost per gram etc etc then gives you the cost of making your own DIY fert mix  so for my 500l tank dosing to Clives regime 


 allow for Mg & NO3 in my tap water with WC





Also entered the cost of commercial ferts (editable by user to allow for increases etc ) so you can compare them 





So Cloned my own ADA Brighty N 300ml worth














Only a saving of 907% 

Repeated the process for Tropica Specialised Nutrition clone
















It doesnt have Fe EDTA but can make a 1.0litre solution of Fe EDDHA dose 6ml per week for same of yeild Fe for Tropica Specialised Nutrition



or maybe Fe DTPA




So 5.0 Litres for £3.15 not £90

Using CSM+B for traces salts for Tropica Specialised Nutrition clone




Obviously I haven't accounted for the cost of the water in making the ferts  but the 'maths' speak for themselves


----------



## X3NiTH

@Zeus I just have to say this is a pretty epic use of spare time. Would be awesome to have this a phone app!


----------



## Hanuman

Noticed some errors first hand. This looks like some mix up while dragging formulas and because you are arranging chemicals in a different order in different linked sheets. I suggest you order the chemicals in the same order in the *DD*, *HSPF*, *SS, DIYFert* sheets and whenever you have to list the chemicals sequentially. This will save you serious headaches believe me. Here it goes:

*Sheet "DD" cell F28. Formula is:*
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G29*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D28/100),0)&"%"
should be:
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G34*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D28/100),0)&"%"

*Sheet "DD" cell F29. Formula is:*
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G30*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D29/100),0)&"%"
should be:
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G29*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D29/100),0)&"%"

*Sheet "DD" cell F30. Formula is:*
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G31*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D30/100),0)&"%"
should be:
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G30*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D30/100),0)&"%"

*Sheet "DD" cell F31. Formula is:*
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G32*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D31/100),0)&"%"
should be:
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G31*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D31/100),0)&"%"

*Sheet "DD" cell F33. Formula is:*
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G34*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D33/100),0)&"%"
should be:
=ROUNDUP((DIYFert!*G32*/HSPF!$F$15*1000)/(D33/100),0)&"%"

Alternatively you could rearrange the order of the chemical on the left of the table to match the proper solubility.

And yes I had to crack the password of the sheets to copy paste the formulas. lol - Didn't want to rewrite them.

If you need any help let me know.


----------



## Zeus.

Upcoming release
added Calcium Sulphate to boost dGH



quite easily exceeds the solubility limit for a dosing solution so tuned for weekly dosing dry salts

Custom DIY Trace mix (advance users) has been integrated with 'Headshot/Clone Wizard'so their custom DIY trace mix can be mixed with other traces mixes (or used by itself) to meet the users requirements.



Giving total yield for dose per week and integrate to do Micro and AIO solutions, with mixing instructions



JBL ProFlora Ferropol added to compare and clone list.


----------



## Zeus.

X3NiTH said:


> @Zeus I just have to say this is a pretty epic use of spare time. Would be awesome to have this a phone app!


It did work on phone but I tried last night and there was some issues so will be looking into that. Thanks for your very kind words. Just thought a spreadsheet we can all use (and check) makes sense, as so easy to make mistakes doing ppm calculations, as you will be well aware yourself.



Hanuman said:


> Noticed some errors first hand.



🥰 excellent - I was hoping I would attract someone with better skills than me with MS software, to check my work.



Hanuman said:


> This looks like some mix up while dragging formulas and because you are arranging chemicals in a different order in different linked sheets. I suggest you order the chemicals in the same order in the *DD*, *HSPF*, *SS, DIYFert* sheets and whenever you have to list the chemicals sequentially. This will save you serious headaches believe me.


Learning the Hard way unfortunately, but have already started using the same order in places.

will check those out you have linked, I may have already spotted the error in V1.8 and corrected it in the pre release version V1.9.




			
				Hanuman said:
			
		

> Alternatively you could rearrange the order of the chemical on the left of the table to match the proper solubility.



Yes 👌, I do find myself changing the orders as the program evolves, but sometimes the links dont always auto change depending on how they are linked  (RTFM springs to mind)



Hanuman said:


> yes I had to crack the password of the sheets to copy paste the formulas.


 good, well its only there to protect the end user from overwriting the formulas, hence it was made easy to enter and not forget, having it alphanumeric to 16 places would of been a PITA every time I did a release  



Hanuman said:


> If you need any help let me know.



Yes if you see anything you can improve on I can give you the down link to the version I'm working on, you can do your 'magic' and then I can then upload it back and so on. As long as we dont both work on it at the same time there isn't an issue OFC. I was hoping some one with the right skill set would pop up in the community to help.

The whole idea of doing the calculator was to do it for the community, done by the commuity and it shall be done for free for no persoanl profit or gain and free for there end user to use, being open, honest and transparant etc. So basically follows the principles of 'Good Science' outlined in Ben Goldacre book 'Bad science'


----------



## Hanuman

Zeus. said:


> the down link to the version I'm working on, you can do your 'magic' and then I can then upload it back and so on. As long as we dont both work on it at the same time there isn't an issue OFC.


Yeap you can send me the pre-release. In fact I think we could both work on it at the same time. For the time being I will simply focus on looking for bugs or errors in formulas. I will keep track of what I find so you can then integrate it in your version. That way I don't slow you down and you don't need to wait for me to submit revisions before continuing your work. You can simply add them or disregard them (if already corrected by yourself or not deemed necessary) as they come in future releases.

In my opinion though before adding further features, I think the calculator needs to be cleaned up a bit both from a usability and organisation stand point. This will allow for less errors to be made down the road but also make the tool more user friendly / "plug and play".


----------



## Zeus.

TNC Trace Salts




Just sticking photo in for folks to reference


----------



## Basviola

Zeus. said:


> Version V1.9 coming soon



Zeus recently you added Rexolin to the calculator, is that the version 1.9 ?

Please consider making a video tutorial.  The excel sheets is the most advanced I have seen...well that might be the reason, but I just don't really get it.

I feel so stupid, but I would just love to learn how to use the calculator so I can compare different fert mix recipies.

Tried rotala butterfly... but it confuses me that I only can calculate on one salt at the time.


----------



## kilnakorr

Zeus. said:


> Just sticking photo in for folks to reference


Just a tiny difference in Fe?


----------



## Zeus.

Basviola said:


> Rexolin to the calculator, is that the version 1.9 ?



Yes its in 



Basviola said:


> but I just don't really get it.
> 
> I feel so stupid, but I would just love to learn how to use the calculator so I can compare different fert mix recipies.



@Hanuman  is working many an hour at the moment working on how to simplify the calculator without losing any functionality, plus making it more intuitive to use based on international English. But it all takes time. Should be worth the wait IMO


----------



## rebel

Love this work!! Keep it up guys.


----------



## hypnogogia

Now that I’ve got my head round the calculator I use it to establish how to mix my ferts.  In fact, it got me back into mixing my own as I can establish a target and work out exactly how much of each salt to add to achieve that target.


----------



## Zeus.

hypnogogia said:


> Now that I’ve got my head round the calculator I use it to establish how to mix my ferts.  In fact, it got me back into mixing my own as I can establish a target and work out exactly how much of each salt to add to achieve that target.



That was always the aim - to make it all easier to all the salts at once with no maths  Good to hear you getting on with it. I do think it will be better when @Hanuman has done his magic as he is much more competent at Excel than me, I was just 'Winging it'


----------



## Basviola

Tanks for all the work you into that calculator.

I will definately wait for it and just keep dosing the recipie I am ising at the moment for now.

The following is not to give you more work, just what I find a good ide to help out many upcoming users with the calculator.
About intuition... 
Often importen steps, the order to fill in information, and other stuff is just a matter of course to the programmer and/og specialist.

A simple 'walk through video', of how to calc a specific fert mix, would force all the 'know how' out of you experienced guys.

Don't know if the following makes sense, but with my novice information about fert mixing, I would find it interesting with a database of fert recipes.

Don't know how it should be evaluated, but if people shared the recipe they used with most success, among other parameters like water hardness, light, cow and so on.
If a database like that existed, it might be quite easy to draw some imperial conclusions of what micro to choose with hard water and so on... Or that most people with hard water tanks used this or this product along with their ferts for the best effect.

Anyway a big thanks again for working on the calculator.


----------



## dcurzon

First post!  Have I come to the right place to bug report?? 
Thank you for the fine work put into this.  I know that its almost impossible to test every possible scenario, that's why we have beta releases...

v1.8
On the Dose Devil tab, Macro Dosing Solubility report, discrepancy with the chemicals being used on DIYFert tab.

Im using:




DD shows:




So its pulling information from the wrong cells for the following: 
kh2po4
CaNO3
K2SO4
MgSO4
CaCO3
K2CO3

Looks likely that its because compounds have been put in a different order between the 2 lists.

I can't edit the worksheet because a) its protected, and b) I have no idea what the solubility is of these things so it might not work correctly with the formula MAX D27-34.

Ah, that's not a bad first post!  Anyway, superb job on the spreadsheet!  Thanks  I made my first DIY mixes yesterday, using this tool to give me confirmations


----------



## madhunm

Hello @Zeus,

Awesome tool!

I have a couple of questions:

1. If I want to setup my own regime based on percentages, where do I enter the values?
2. My CSM+B is not the same as what is on your sheet. How do I change the element percentage values?
3. Can you also please add KCl (Potassium Chloride) for Potassium contribution? insteead of only K2SO4 (Potassium Sulphate)

Thanks,
Madhu.

P.S. Where can I find version 1.9 of this tool?


----------



## Zeus.

dcurzon said:


> First post!  Have I come to the right place to bug report??
> Thank you for the fine work put into this.  I know that its almost impossible to test every possible scenario, that's why we have beta releases...
> 
> v1.8
> On the Dose Devil tab, Macro Dosing Solubility report, discrepancy with the chemicals being used on DIYFert tab.
> 
> Im using:
> View attachment 151569
> 
> DD shows:
> View attachment 151570
> 
> So its pulling information from the wrong cells for the following:
> kh2po4
> CaNO3
> K2SO4
> MgSO4
> CaCO3
> K2CO3
> 
> Looks likely that its because compounds have been put in a different order between the 2 lists.
> 
> I can't edit the worksheet because a) its protected, and b) I have no idea what the solubility is of these things so it might not work correctly with the formula MAX D27-34.
> 
> Ah, that's not a bad first post!  Anyway, superb job on the spreadsheet!  Thanks  I made my first DIY mixes yesterday, using this tool to give me confirmations



Thanks for the positive feedback and double thanks for posting about the error, we are aware of some issues but new version on its way , soon.............


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> Hello @Zeus,
> 
> Awesome tool!



Thank you 



madhunm said:


> 1. If I want to setup my own regime based on percentages, where do I enter the values?



We haven't configured it for percentages as most folk use weekly [ppm]



madhunm said:


> My CSM+B is not the same as what is on your sheet. How do I change the element percentage values?



In the hidden locked sheets, if there isn't much difference I would just go off the weekly Fe ppm your after.
we could always add it later once V1.9 is out



madhunm said:


> 3. Can you also please add KCl (Potassium Chloride) for Potassium contribution? insteead of only K2SO4 (Potassium Sulphate)



Already been added in version 1.9




madhunm said:


> P.S. Where can I find version 1.9 of this tool?



On @Hanuman hard drive  I'm not even allowed to see it till hes done 🤣 I do get little snippets here and there, but some jobs cant be rushed


----------



## madhunm

Zeus. said:


> We haven't configured it for percentages as most folk use weekly [ppm]



Understood. maybe a percent to PPM converter sheet (and vice versa)?



Zeus. said:


> On @Hanuman hard drive  I'm not even allowed to see it till hes done 🤣 I do get little snippets here and there, but some jobs cant be rushed



No rush at all.

Thanks,
Madhu.


----------



## Hanuman

dcurzon said:


> v1.8
> On the Dose Devil tab, Macro Dosing Solubility report, discrepancy with the chemicals being used on DIYFert tab.
> 
> Im using:
> View attachment 151569
> 
> DD shows:
> View attachment 151570
> 
> So its pulling information from the wrong cells for the following:
> kh2po4
> CaNO3
> K2SO4
> MgSO4
> CaCO3
> K2CO3
> 
> Looks likely that its because compounds have been put in a different order between the 2 lists.
> 
> I can't edit the worksheet because a) its protected, and b) I have no idea what the solubility is of these things so it might not work correctly with the formula MAX D27-34.



This has been fixed in the current version I am working on. It was one of the first bugs I noticed when I started helping [mention]Zeus. [/mention]


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> 2. My CSM+B is not the same as what is on your sheet. How do I change the element percentage values?/QUOTE]
> 
> Can you please post here the link of the CSM+B you are using with the composition of it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## madhunm

Here you go: https://aquaticjungle.ecwid.com/100GM-AquaGold-CSM-b-p101892871


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> Here you go: https://aquaticjungle.ecwid.com/100GM-AquaGold-CSM-b-p101892871



Did a quick hack of the program and for the same comparative dose of '0.6g/100l/week' its pretty similar results with a modicum of Mg






Does not mention which chelates its using, however if plants are healthy and price is right  its a winner as CSM+B is bit overpriced IMO


----------



## madhunm

Zeus. said:


> Did a quick hack of the program and for the same comparative dose of '0.6g/100l/week' its pretty similar results with a modicum of Mg
> 
> View attachment 151693
> 
> Does not mention which chelates its using, however if plants are healthy and price is right  its a winner as CSM+B is bit overpriced IMO




I have attached the Fert Calculator with my values in it.

I am trying to make a 1ml/20L dosing; 3 time a week for both macro and micro - alternate days.

I am unable to go past the 90g/l of K2SO4 solubility limit; but other than that, let me know if I have borked anything.

Thanks,
Madhu.


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> I have attached the Fert Calculator with my values in it.
> 
> I am trying to make a 1ml/20L dosing; 3 time a week for both macro and micro - alternate days.
> 
> I am unable to go past the 90g/l of K2SO4 solubility limit; but other than that, let me know if I have borked anything.
> 
> Thanks,
> Madhu.



The salt solubility limit is set at 75% so you should be able to increase the amount to some degree

What PPM are you aiming for? do you have any KCL?
Not sure what regime your using there with should high [NO3,K,Fe] compared to you [PO4,Mg,Ca]


----------



## madhunm

Zeus. said:


> The salt solubility limit is set at 75% so you should be able to increase the amount to some degree
> 
> What PPM are you aiming for? do you have any KCL?
> Not sure what regime your using there with should high [NO3,K,Fe] compared to you [PO4,Mg,Ca]


@Zeus. , I have in fact altered the solubility of k2so4 not by the 75% limit; but by changing the solubility in one of the hidden sheets from 110g/l to 120g/l (Wikipedia)

I have some KCl on order; should be delivered by Thursday

The regime is loosely based on the TNC complete; the PO4 and iron are low on purpose. 

Until @Hanuman releases v1.9 beta, I guess using KCl is kinda out for me.

Thanks!


----------



## madhunm

madhunm said:


> Until @Hanuman releases v1.9 beta, I guess using KCl is kinda out for me.
> 
> Thanks!



@Hanuman , Any chance of having a look at 1.9?


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> @Zeus. , I have in fact altered the solubility of k2so4 not by the 75% limit; but by changing the solubility in one of the hidden sheets from 110g/l to 120g/l (Wikipedia)



Yes that's ok too. Solubility of K2SO4 at 25 degrees Celsius is 120g/l and it keeps increasing with temperature. 130g/l at 30 degrees Celsius and so on.
What about increasing dosage from 1ml to 2ml or 3ml? That way you bypass solubility issues entirely by decreasing concentration.



madhunm said:


> @Hanuman , Any chance of having a look at 1.9?


Sorry but no in my habits to supply half baked cakes. I am still working on it and many things to get around but we are getting there.


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> @Hanuman , Any chance of having a look at 1.9?



I'm lucky if I get a look at it ATM  But a perfectionist doesn't show you till its finished


----------



## Hanuman

Zeus. said:


> I'm lucky if I get a look at it ATM  But a perfectionist doesn't show you till its finished


I gave you the latest working draft 2 days ago....


----------



## madhunm

Hanuman said:


> Yes that's ok too. Solubility of K2SO4 at 25 degrees Celsius is 120g/l and it keeps increasing with temperature. 130g/l at 30 degrees Celsius and so on.
> What about increasing dosage from 1ml to 2ml or 3ml? That way you bypass solubility issues entirely by decreasing concentration.



I have 1ml / pump bottles and it is easier on my brain (and that of my children) to just press the pump once per day and go about our business. Thats the reason for the 1ml/20L specification



Hanuman said:


> Sorry but no in my habits to supply half baked cakes. I am still working on it and many things to get around but we are getting there.



Understood. However, it is said that perfect is the enemy of good. 

Regards.


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> Understood. However, it is said that perfect is the enemy of good.


I don't expect it to be perfect, simply functional 😂. Supplying the calculator as is would attract a plethora of questions unnecessarily and you would probably even have wrong results. My only constraint is time lately as I have work reports to finish and those require my upmost priority.


----------



## madhunm

Hanuman said:


> I don't expect it to be perfect, simply functional 😂. Supplying the calculator as is would attract a plethora of questions unnecessarily and you would probably even have wrong results. My only constraint is time lately as I have work reports to finish and those require my upmost priority.



Understood; will wait. Did not mean to hassle you.

Though, I have a question unrelated to the calculator; are my ratios of N-P-K sensible?

Regards.


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> Understood; will wait. Did not mean to hassle you.


No worries. Didn't feel like I was.



madhunm said:


> Though, I have a question unrelated to the calculator; are my ratios of N-P-K sensible?


I'll leave @Zeus. or anyone else answer that.


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> are my ratios of N-P-K sensible



Are any ratios sensible , all depends whos theory you follow and what elements your talking about, there are no definitive answers that I am aware off.

T Barr advocates Liebigs Law of minimum although you may read some of his early post when be thought that there may off been a 'magic ratio' but at present is the former hes going with.

There does seem to be some Ratio between Ca, Mg and K whereby outside some ratios an excess of one (say High [Ca] )may block the uptake of Mg and K, but again no definitive evidence- my tap water has Ca at 141ppm so I am presently balancing out the Mg and K to fit with suggested theoretical guidelines


----------



## madhunm

Zeus. said:


> suggested theoretical guidelines



According to that, Ca:Mg:K should be in the ratio  2:1:0.5. 

That implies my water will turn harder than Superman's fist... 

Regards.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





madhunm said:


> That implies my water will turn harder than Superman's fist


I wouldn't get too bogged down in the exact ratios. A lot of plants are adapted to living in <"very calcium rich  water"> and have adaptations to allow them to <"uptake other cations">.  I wouldn't worry too much about potassium (K),  or magnesium (Mg), availability and you can get around  potential iron (Fe) issues by <"using a  chelator that is designed for harder water">.





Zeus. said:


> my tap water has Ca at 141ppm


That is <"fully saturated with calcium">, where carbonates are present. The calculations are in the link , but that is almost 20dGH before you've added any magnesium.

cheers Darrel


----------



## madhunm

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I wouldn't get too bogged down in the exact ratios.



Agree... but, there has to be some number thats a little more sensible than some other number.

Lets say I am using RO/DI water with a 0 TDS reading.

My intention is to primarily grow green plants with maybe a couple of red ones. 

Let us say the carpet is a blend of HC Cuba and Monte Carlo; the background plants are Rotalas

What ratio of N-P-K-Ca-Mg-Fe would you suggest?

Regards


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> Agree... but, there has to be some number thats a little more sensible than some other number.
> 
> Lets say I am using RO/DI water with a 0 TDS reading.
> 
> My intention is to primarily grow green plants with maybe a couple of red ones.
> 
> Let us say the carpet is a blend of HC Cuba and Monte Carlo; the background plants are Rotalas
> 
> What ratio of N-P-K-Ca-Mg-Fe would you suggest?
> 
> Regards


Personally I think if you go down that road you will make your life miserable since there is no consensus and definite answer on ratios. Even experts disagree with each other.

If you are using RO water then simple remineralize the water with calcium, say between 20pm and 30pm. You could also add some carbonates if you require KH to go up  a bit. Personally I don't since I have some rocks that do that job so I only add Ca. Then for the rest use the ppm values used by EI or any other dosing style really. They have been proven to be fine and generally speaking balanced.

That's my say on it.


----------



## madhunm

@Hanuman understood.

Check out my 'market research': https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1clZdofAo6QyCiqqBBstJMaveTV7zYyP4q0u7vIY1T2w/edit?usp=sharing

Regards.


----------



## Hanuman

Perhaps make the file publicly accessible? It's requesting for access.


----------



## madhunm

Hanuman said:


> Perhaps make the file publicly accessible? It's requesting for access.


My bad. Please check now. 

Regards.


----------



## dcurzon

So add a column for AVG and tae the average across those, and you have yourself an estimated ratio.  Might be right, might be wrong


----------



## madhunm

dcurzon said:


> So add a column for AVG and tae the average across those, and you have yourself an estimated ratio.  Might be right, might be wrong


The 'target' column does just that. 

Regards.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





madhunm said:


> Lets say I am using RO/DI water with a 0 TDS reading. .........What ratio of N-P-K-Ca-Mg-Fe would you suggest?


If I was starting from a blank slate I'd try a few commercial mixes  (like you've done on your spreadsheet) to find one that gives me good plant growth and just replicate ("Clone") that.  Have a look at <"it's very green....">.

It doesn't matter where an ion has come from, every K+ ion is the same as every other K+ ion when it is in solution.

The issue for a lot of people is that their water is hard, with a lot of calcium (Ca) and carbonate buffering present, which means that they have <"to add a lot of the other cations"> to achieve the optimal ratio.

In the hard water scenario I would take <"the path of least resistance"> and grow plants/keep fish that are happy in hard water.

cheers Darrel


----------



## dcurzon

madhunm said:


> The 'target' column does just that.
> 
> Regards.


So it does!

Interesting that the K is much higher than the N


----------



## Zeus.

Hanuman said:


> I gave you the latest working draft 2 days ago....



🤫, I'm already tempted to post a few screen as it is with it looking so


----------



## Hanuman

Zeus. said:


> 🤫, I'm already tempted to post a few screen as it is with it looking so


Nah, patiente my friend. Patience is a virtue.


----------



## madhunm

dcurzon said:


> So it does!
> 
> Interesting that the K is much higher than the N


My observation is that for setups that have low to medium lighting, K is usually higher than N.

Regards.


----------



## madhunm

madhunm said:


> My observation is that for setups that have low to medium lighting, K is usually higher than N.
> 
> Regards.


Also, these are percents... not PPM.

For example, 

2.66% N is about 5.89PPM
10.75% K is about 4.47PPM

Regards.


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> My observation is that for setups that have low to medium lighting, K is usually higher than N.
> 
> Regards.




Have just been though the compare list on the lastest Calculator and only one regime/commercial fert had a significant higher K dose than NO3 dose and thats ADA dosing.

I did excluded the commercial fert that didnt have any NO3 



madhunm said:


> Also, these are percents... not PPM.
> 
> For example,
> 
> 2.66% N is about 5.89PPM
> 10.75% K is about 4.47PPM
> 
> Regards.



Need to also read the analysis label carefully on the commercial ferts as thay will always try to add another layer of 'mystic confusion'

So will quote say the '4.23K w/w%*' and at the bottom of the label say '* K2O has been used as source of K' so you have to do the little extra calculation to convert the K2Ow/w% into K w/w% first before converting to K ppm, which happens to be slightly less than K2O ppm.

Quoting 'w/w%' is just a way the commercial fert companies get round the law, they quote the analysis as they have too by law, but the law doesnt say what units they have to use, so using these units does not make life easy for anyone.

If they quoted the analysis in ppms and elements/compound we all use  it would be easy. It would be even better if they gave the ppm yield per dose per tank size, open honest and transparent will all the information.

There is only one commercial fert 'that I am aware off' that does this is APT Complete by D Wong






But Dennis Wong has alway been a great source of information and open and transparent in his explanations, always trying to present the information is an easy to understand format

His fert doesnt quote NO3 as it will be a urea compound hes using (cheapest) and quoting 'NO3' would be false as its the bacteria in the tank that convert the Urea into NO3 for the plants. But quoting K2O w/w% is just misdirection as once K2O is in solution it forms 'K+' ions

Just comparing his K to N ration K>N however you need to convert the N to NO3 and account for the dose  havent added APT complete yet, however going off the rest





I would of estimated that '1.5ppm N' yields '6.64 ppm NO3' once the bacteria convert it will be higher than the  4.0 ppm K


----------



## madhunm

Well, FWIW, here are some labels that I made for my bottles


----------



## madhunm

When you are entering the tank volume, do you enter the tank volume and sump volume together?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





madhunm said:


> When you are entering the tank volume, do you enter the tank volume and sump volume together?


Yes add them together. It is the total volume of water in the system that you are interested in. You need to take a bit off for glass thickness, volume of substrate, volume of filter media etc.





Zeus. said:


> So will quote say the '4.23K w/w%*' and at the bottom of the label say '* K2O has been used as source of K' so you have to do the little extra calculation to convert the K2Ow/w% into K w/w% first before converting to K ppm, which happens to be slightly less than K2O ppm.


I couldn't agree more, it would be <"so much easier if everything quoted % of the element"> and then there are also the <"different units of hardness">, not very helpful.

At work I'm trying to get every one to use <"scientific notation for the orders of magnitude"> so mg/L (mg L-1) rather than ppm etc.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

You could do, but to be honest all it will change is the amount of salts you add, but your sump has no plants so it doesn't really matter esp for NPK and micro ferts, if your plants are healthy the ppm are irrelevant. As for remineralising clones V1.8 doesn't do it very well, think I pulled it from the download.
V1.9 is so more refined it's at another level all together. However as it is it is completely non user friendly ATM. Only two people could make sense of it as it is .
We have no idea when it will be ready for even pre- release which will only be with a few testers we have on our list.
The aim on release is it will need no/little support from us, it will be self explanatory and user friendly for both experts and folks new to the hobby.


----------



## madhunm

Zeus. said:


> but your sump has no plants



The plan is to have a refugium on a 'reverse cycle' - the lights will be on here when the main lights will be off.

regards.


----------



## madhunm

I have a question regarding the solubility of K2SO4.

I tried to dissolve 18g of this in 200ml of water; it doesnt want to. When shaken vigorously, it goes into suspension and then after a while, settles on the bottom.

Is this normal?

Regards.


----------



## Hanuman

K2SO4 solubility is 111g/L @ 20 degrees celsius. That means for your 200ml of water the max would be ~22g. You are getting close to the max though.

I see several scenarios.

1. You didn't use RO water
2. You have rather low grade K2SO4
3. You are sub 10 degrees celsius

Try warming it up see if it fully dissolves.


----------



## madhunm

Hanuman said:


> 1. You didn't use RO water
> 2. You have rather low grade K2SO4
> 3. You are sub 10 degrees celsius
> 
> Try warming it up see if it fully dissolves.



I did use RO water
I can't speak to the grade; I picked it up from an agro chemical company
I'm definitely not under 25°C 

I haven't heated it yet... But, so far, shaking the bottle is kinda sorta working.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Hanuman said:


> Try warming it up see if it fully dissolves.





madhunm said:


> But, so far, shaking the bottle is kinda sorta working


That should work. 





madhunm said:


> I tried to dissolve 18g of this in 200ml of water; it doesnt want to


Are there any other salts in the solution? You can only dissolve 111g/L  of K2SO4 if there aren't any other salts in solution, the solution is fully saturated at that point. If you try and add another salt, even a really soluble one, the K2SO4 will just come back out of solution. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> I have a question regarding the solubility of K2SO4.
> 
> I tried to dissolve 18g of this in 200ml of water; it doesnt want to. When shaken vigorously, it goes into suspension and then after a while, settles on the bottom.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> Regards.



Was there any other salts added ?

Darrel just bet me posting


----------



## Hanuman

dw1305 said:


> Are there any other salts in the solution?


Indeed that could be another reason. I assumed he only dissolved K2SO4.

I believe that is one the reasons why the calculator advises 75% as a solubility limit. It's to allow some flexibility.


----------



## madhunm

dw1305 said:


> Are there any other salts in the solution? You can only dissolve 111g/L  of K2SO4 if there aren't any other salts in solution, the solution is fully saturated at that point. If you try and add another salt, even a really soluble one, the K2SO4 will just come back out of solution.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Yeah! There's 3g KNO3, 3g Ca(NO3)2, 1g KH2PO4.

I'll try to dissolve the K2SO4 seperately and try again. Thanks for the heads up! 

Regards.


----------



## Zeus.

madhunm said:


> Yeah! There's 3g KNO3, 3g Ca(NO3)2, 1g KH2PO4.
> 
> I'll try to dissolve the K2SO4 seperately and try again. Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> Regards.



Just double the volume and double the dose


----------



## X3NiTH

madhunm said:


> Yeah! There's 3g KNO3, 3g Ca(NO3)2, 1g KH2PO4



As usual the Elephant in this mix is the CaNO3. You’ve likely got near 3g of Calcium Sulphate and some Calcium Phosphate precipitate in that mix.

Calcium Phosphate/Apatite crystals are as hard as teeth (teeth are mostly Apatite), takes weeks to dissolve @30ppm CO2).


----------



## Hanuman

madhunm said:


> Yeah! There's 3g KNO3, 3g Ca(NO3)2, 1g KH2PO4.


Here is < some information > provided by @X3NiTH some time ago about the reaction between calcium nitrate and sulfates.


----------



## madhunm

Hmm. Okay; in that case, I'll make a seperate solution for N, P and K. 

However, I don't have CO2 in my tank yet. Hopefully, I'll get it setup by next week.

That said, shall I omit the Ca(NO3)2 and replace the by CaMg(CO₃)₂ (dolomite)?


----------



## Zeus.

The other option which may improve the salts solubility is the decrease the pH of the solution by adding a little weak acid eg Ascorbic ach, Potassium Sorbate or critic acid, does not need to be rocket science just sprinkle a little into the solution and see if the precipitate disappears


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





madhunm said:


> That said, shall I omit the Ca(NO3)2 and replace the by CaMg(CO₃)₂ (dolomite)?


No, carbonates are less soluble than nitrates.

This is the <"solubility rules chart">.It is just like @X3NiTH says as soon as you have ions in solution that  form one of the *insoluble* compounds, that compound will precipitate out. 







Zeus. said:


> salts solubility is the decrease the pH of the solution by adding a little weak acid


You can see for calcium carbonate it says "insoluble", but a lot of water is "hard" (high dGH/dKH)  and saturated with Ca++ and HCO3- ions which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, this happens because calcium and magnesium carbonate are soluble in acids, and rain-water is naturally slightly acid.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Hanuman

I am working on the calculator. Questions for the chemists here:

Would there be any situation where calcium sulphate and/or calcium carbonate would be added to a liquid fertilizer container instead of dry dosing then?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Hanuman said:


> Would there be any situation where calcium sulphate and/or calcium carbonate would be added to a liquid fertilizer container instead of dry dosing then?


No, they are both compounds of <"very limited solubility">, so you always need to add them directly to the tank. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Hanuman

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, No, they are both compounds of <"very limited solubility">, so you always need to add them directly to the tank.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thank you Darrel. Will code accordingly.


----------



## Zeus.

We ( mainly Hanuman ATM) are still working hard on this and its looking GOOD and release is getting closer, but no time scale as 'real life' does kick in from time to time and all folk involved in the project are after a useful unrushed product which once release will 'Solid' and not be updated for some time (unless errors are found )

So what *Commercial ferts* do folks want on it to compare or clone ?????

Some are so dilute we have had to take them off eg Seachem flourish as there was so little in them there was too many zeros eg 0.000000000000000001 ppm !!!!! and when chosen it was making our effects look silly as we needed bigger cells to show the figures so the great look Hanuman has worked on was spoilt 

Working on D Wongs APT range ATM - just after confirmation on a few figures as its says 1.5 ppm Nitrogen (N) for APT complete and for EST-Index it has no [Mg ppm]

On with ADA range too 

So if there's any other commercial ferts you would like us to add just ask, but some are not possible as the products have no ppms or w/w% - a post of the fert and a sheetshot of the ingredients ppm or w/w%  would be very helpful as finding them can be very time consuming


----------



## Luketendo

Zeus. said:


> We ( mainly Hanuman ATM) are still working hard on this and its looking GOOD and release is getting closer, but no time scale as 'real life' does kick in from time to time and all folk involved in the project are after a useful unrushed product which once release will 'Solid' and not be updated for some time (unless errors are found )
> 
> So what *Commercial ferts* do folks want on it to compare or clone ?????
> 
> Some are so dilute we have had to take them off eg Seachem flourish as there was so little in them there was too many zeros eg 0.000000000000000001 ppm !!!!! and when chosen it was making our effects look silly as we needed bigger cells to show the figures so the great look Hanuman has worked on was spoilt
> 
> Working on D Wongs APT range ATM - just after confirmation on a few figures as its says 1.5 ppm Nitrogen (N) for APT complete and for EST-Index it has no [Mg ppm]
> 
> On with ADA range too
> 
> So if there's any other commercial ferts you would like us to add just ask, but some are not possible as the products have no ppms or w/w% - a post of the fert and a sheetshot of the ingredients ppm or w/w%  would be very helpful as finding them can be very time consuming



Posted the labels with  w/w%  of the new ADA line on the micronutrients thread.


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## Zeus.

Luketendo said:


> Posted the labels with  w/w%  of the new ADA line on the micronutrients thread.



Many thanks as it saves searching 👍





Just the maths taking w/w% to ppms and converting K2O to K and N to NO3.

worth a post so folks can check the maths and for future reference too

( the reason the columns are so wide is its on a spread sheet with lots of other data above it which needs wider cells )




Zeus. said:


> Working on D Wongs APT range ATM - just after confirmation on a few figures as its says 1.5 ppm Nitrogen (N) for APT complete and for EST-Index it has no [Mg ppm]







So it was a typo on the webpage as product label clearly says NO3


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## Zeus.

All JBL Proscape ranged added

adding
*Dennerle Plant Elixir*






which has no phosphate or nitrate, but does have 0.02% Nitrogen probably urea, so once the bacteria get their hands on the N in the tank it will yield NO3 0.18ppm.

Any ideas what the ' 0.29% organic matter. To promote the growth of ornamental plants in aquariums (0,29 % Organische Substanz. Zur Wuchsförderung von Zierpflanzen in Aquarien.)' is?
They do quote the 'organic matter' for other products as well


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## Luketendo

Zeus. said:


> All JBL Proscape ranged added
> 
> adding
> *Dennerle Plant Elixir*
> 
> 
> View attachment 153144
> 
> which has no phosphate or nitrate, but does have 0.02% Nitrogen probably urea, so once the bacteria get their hands on the N in the tank it will yield NO3 0.18ppm.
> 
> Any ideas what the ' 0.29% organic matter. To promote the growth of ornamental plants in aquariums (0,29 % Organische Substanz. Zur Wuchsförderung von Zierpflanzen in Aquarien.)' is?
> They do quote the 'organic matter' for other products as well



Might be some amino acid or hormone type stuff, like ADA additives.


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## Zeus.

Luketendo said:


> Might be some amino acid or hormone type stuff, like ADA additives



But vague all the same as it doesn't mention [PO4] in any of the products in the range and its probably counting the organic PO4 in the  'organic matter'



and the ppm above don't account for the organic compound the P/PO4 is attached to so [PO4 ppm] *will be* even(much) lower


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## Zeus.

Was chatting with @Hanuman today and he has sent an email to Dennerle to confirm the [PO4] in theirs products 

But their S7/E15/E30 system is a bit complex IMO
S7 you dose 3ml/100l every 7 days
E15 you dose one tablet/100l on 15th of month
V30 you dose 3ml/l00l on 30th of month


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## JoshP12

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing!!!! 

I look forward to using the calculator  and assisting in any way I can/is needed. 

Cheers,
Josh


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## Luketendo

Zeus. said:


> Was chatting with @Hanuman today and he has sent an email to Dennerle to confirm the [PO4] in theirs products
> 
> But their S7/E15/E30 system is a bit complex IMO
> S7 you dose 3ml/100l every 7 days
> E15 you dose one tablet/100l on 15th of month
> V30 you dose 3ml/l00l on 30th of month



Sounds a bit crazy. Unless the ingredients are obviously incompatible I would just divide by 7 for S7 and 30 for the others and dose daily...


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## rebel

X3NiTH said:


> Calcium Phosphate/Apatite crystals are as hard as teeth (teeth are mostly Apatite), takes weeks to dissolve @30ppm CO2).


Would be a great slow release Ca2+ source.   I suppose bit of Coral would be similar.


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## veerserif

For those of us on the other side of the pond, any chance of including Aquarium Co-op's Easy Green? w/w% on my bottle/from the store page is as follows:



> N 2.66% , P 0.46%, K 9.21%, Mg 0.7%, S 0.80%, B 0.015%, Cu 0.00%, Fe 0.13%, Mn 0.036%, Mo 0.00%, Zn 0.072%
> 
> derived from:
> 
> Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, EDTA Iron, Disodium Manganese EDTA, Disodium Magnesium EDTA, Diammonium Copper EDTA, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate.



Thanks!


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## dw1305

Hi all,





rebel said:


> Would be a great slow release Ca2+ source.


Very slow release. The fossil record is <"comprised of a lot of teeth"> and often not a lot else.





rebel said:


> I suppose bit of Coral would be similar.


Equally <"potentially eternal in hard water">.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus.

veerserif said:


> For those of us on the other side of the pond, any chance of including Aquarium Co-op's Easy Green? w/w% on my bottle/from the store page is as follows:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!



should be straight forward 👍 any idea what 'one pump' is as a volume 10ml, 10cc or fluid ounces uk or US - not that we need it but helps to see what the recommended dose is


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## veerserif

Sure, they ship with 1ml pumps. So one pump should just be 1ml.


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## Zeus.

veerserif said:


> Sure, they ship with 1ml pumps. So one pump should just be 1ml.



I've rounded a US Gallon to 40l as at (1.0 Gal (US) = 3.785 litres) as the calculator has SDI units in in core and keeping to one system makes the coding easier

so at 1ml/40l/week






But at 1ml/10l/week it packs more nutrition per litre than the european rival AIO (All In One) ferts





But as all commercial AIO ferts its still overpriced water, but convenient


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## veerserif

Isn't it 1 US gallon = around 4 L? Otherwise those gallon milk jugs are *way* bigger than I thought! (I grew up in Hong Kong so I'm quite used to the metric system, and now live in the US in a state of perpetual measurement uncertainty!) But, yeah, they're doing 1ml per 10 US gal/40L.

Good to know that my double-dosing of the stuff is unlikely to cause harm, those ppm calculations are really helpful to me. And it'll be a good basis for me to clone when I run out and go DIY. Thanks again for all your hard work!


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## Melll

@veerserif 

1 US gallon is 3.76 litres
1 Imperial gallon is 4.5 litres.


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## veerserif

Melll said:


> @veerserif
> 
> 1 US gallon is 3.76 litres
> 1 Imperial gallon is 4.5 litres.



I'm aware - Zeus has 1 US gallon listed as 37.85L, which is 10x greater than it should be. Which I assume is just a typo because Aquarium Co-op recommend 1ml per *10 *US gallons, not per 1 US gallon. The chart's correct, the subtitling isn't.


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## Hanuman

I would like to make something clear now before anyone starts building up expectations but I have decided against adding the imperial system to the calculator. I apologize in advance to all Americanos (and all imperialistic fanatics) fellas but that is how it is going to be. That addition alone would take too much time considering the calculator was not initially built with multiple units in mind (so don't blame me) and considering the extensive work that has been done so far to the file, I think it's best for me to focus on more important parts of the calculator. Adding additional units would require editing time from my side to make a fully multiple-unit-compliant calculator.

Hope you all understand, and if you don't then I have 3 names for you: USA, Liberia and Mynamar. That is the lonely band of brothers officially using the imperial system on this planet. All others have adopted the metric system. Time to switch maybe?

With love from Thailand. [Doesn't sound as cool as"With love from Russia" but that is also how it is!]


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## rebel

LOL. Myanmar and Alaska are unlikely to complain.  

I never liked the imperial army.
https://i.insider.com/5e32f61c24306a1e87512226?width=1200&format=jpeg


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## Hanuman

rebel said:


> LOL. Myanmar and Alaska are unlikely to complain.
> 
> I never liked the imperial army.
> https://i.insider.com/5e32f61c24306a1e87512226?width=1200&format=jpeg


And Liberia? Just making sure where the hits will be coming from.🥵


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## Zeus.

Hanuman said:


> so don't blame me



Guilty your honor - thankfully the other French system went out of vogue !




Its was the last thing on my mind when I started 

I have come up with a few ideas to show the imperial units as well in some areas of the calculator, which shouldn't be too time consuming. But like Hanuman said SDI units are in the core of many many cells formulas, some of which are quite long with multiple references to the SDI system. I feel the iImperial patch will be a bit of a sticky plaster, but should be enough for folks who are use to those units


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## hypnogogia

Hanuman said:


> Hope you all understand, and if you don't then I have 3 names for you: USA, Liberia and Mynamar. That is the lonely band of brothers officially using the imperial system on this planet. All others have adopted the metric system. Time to switch maybe?


Britain after brexit


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## Oldguy

Wow. I think I will stick with my 'back of a fag packet' calculations. However I do have a pencil sharpener, if I can find it.


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## dcurzon

One request/suggestion for next release (you may have already included it) is to have the option of metric teaspoon measurements?

I've been mixing working on the principle that a teaspoon is approximately 5g of whatever compound.  Turns out I was very wrong on this!


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## Zeus.

dcurzon said:


> One request/suggestion for next release (you may have already included it) is to have the option of metric teaspoon measurements?
> 
> I've been mixing working on the principle that a teaspoon is approximately 5g of whatever compound.  Turns out I was very wrong on this!



Although the rough estimate of one teaspoon equals five grams isn't correct, as much depends on the size of the salt particles/granules/crystal size and shape, it is generally accepted that it is still fit for purpose for means of fert dosing in our tanks.
then if your tank is showing its lacking in say nitrogen you just toss a bit more of the nitrogen salt in your using into the mix/tank. After all as long as we have a bit of an excess off the element all is good.

To add a grams to teaspoon convertor for each salt would be very time consuming as it would need to account for each salts 'particles/granules/crystal size and shape' and would still be prone to errors. The simple solution is to buy a cheap set of digital scales and your good to go. I have two digital scales one with accuracy to 0.1gram  and the other is good to 0.01 gram, the former is good enough for weights above 10grams and the later for less than 10 grams IMO. You can use serial dilutions also to increase your accuracy in adding the right amount of salts also.

The DIY trace section will have a serial dilution section as to make the trace solution of some of the elements serial dilutions are needed, we are about to do that section very soon 

thanks for the suggestion/idea all the same


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## dcurzon

@Zeus. 
No problem at all... I found a website that had teaspoon tobgram conversions for all the compounds, which was how I came to realise I was way off! Here's the tsp weights for what I use:
K2so4 1tsp = 13g
Kno3 1tsp = 11g
Mgso4 1tsp = 13g
Kh2po4 1tsp = 12g
E202 1tsp = 7g
E300 1tsp = 4g

You're absolutely right, can't beat a set of scales, and that is my next purchase


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## JoshP12

So excited for this release!

Edit: I originally asked about Microsoft Excel, but I think it is an excel doc . 

Josh


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## Hanuman

JoshP12 said:


> So excited for this release!
> 
> Edit: I originally asked about Microsoft Excel, but I think it is an excel doc .
> 
> Josh



Yes the calculator is done in Excel. In principle it should work down to Excel 2007 but not in lower versions due to some features that were introduced in Excel 2007. I tried my best to make the file survive the effects of time by using legacy and permanent features and avoiding new functions and fancy elements. Of course I cannot warranty it works 100%  for Excel 2007 but it should. File was designed under Excel 365 but I have also tested it under Excel 2011 for MAC and it seems to work fine as well.

EDIT 11/12/2020: To avoid any confusion for people seeing this post before the new calculator thread, the new calculator is finally not compatible with 2007. Please read the technical notes in the new thread for more details: IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator

Thank you.


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## Hanuman

Anyone coming here, the new calculator has now been released. You can find it here:
IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator


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## Basviola

This must be the best Christmas present for all into DIY ferts in this hobby. Thank you so much.

I hope I can manage to find my way around this one. Can not wait to check it out.

Ofcourse yet I don't know how intuitive this new version is... and I don't like to push any further work on you guys... anyway I have to mention after trying out the last version:

A guided tour, like a video of you experts calculating some eksampel and show newbies around the sheet... I am sure it would help a lot of people to actually step down the road of diy ferts.

Can wait to calculate and probably fine tune my fert mixes... thanks again.


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## Deano3

Excellent well done guys  will check it out. 

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## LondonDragon

As requested, this thread is now locked, please look at the new Calculator in this link:









						IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator
					

Hello everyone,  Based on its ancestor, the new IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator is completed at last. This has been a long (sometimes fun, sometimes painful) adventure for me. I have spend more time than I care to admit but here it is, ready to roll. Home screenshot here below:  Background...



					www.ukaps.org
				




And carry one replying there  

Cheers


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