# algae outbreak in new 5ft planted



## AndySingh (6 Jul 2014)

Hello everyone, I have been on this forum several times but never contributed until now. I hope that you can help me solve my issues as so far have had little success on my own or advice from lfs.

I set up my first hi-tech planted fish tank in May this year and it was fully cycled in June
Setup details are as follows, my apologise if I have included irrelevant info:

dimensions: 150x50x70 LxWxH cm
volume 450litres 100gallon approx
2x 54watt t5 osrams skywhite
2x 54watt t5 slyvania grolux.
Initially 1 of each would come on from 8:00 to 14:00 and then the other set from 12:00 to 18:00, but because of algae issues I run 1 set only for the full 6hour period.
CO2 using 2kg fire extinguisher and two atomizers. 4bubbles per second at 4bar
No fertilizer routine at moment. reason being that its only been setup for 6-8weeks using combinations of ADA aqua-soil powder and eco-complete. I assume that there would be plently of nutrients in substrate for now. I will start dosing once I have done my research.

Other bits of useful info:
CO2 drop check indicates around 25ppm
ammonia and nitrite are zero and have been so for 4weeks+
nitrate= 10ppm
phosphate= 0.50
pH= 6.7
kH 7.0
dH 9.0
currently doing 40%+ water changes a week. cutting gently scrubbing the algae away once week before the water change.

filtration: eheim 2078.

original plan for this tank was to have a 'mega' hitec planted setup and fish would include ottos, shrimp, smaller rasboras barbs and tetras. however I have temporarily bought few mollys following advice from LFS but they have very little effect on the long strands of algae, they seem to be focussing their attention on short strands.
i would appreciate your knowledge tips tricks anything at all that you feel will help in this matter.
please feel free to ask if you have any questions. I cant seem to upload pictures on here either
Cherio.
Andy


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## Sacha (6 Jul 2014)

Hey- welcome  

What kind of algae is it? Can you get a photo? What does it look like?

your nitrate and phosphate readings indicate that your tank is very low on nutrients. I would recommend you start dosing EI as soon as possible.


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## GHNelson (6 Jul 2014)

Hi Andy...welcome.
You can upload a photograph through Photobucket or Flicker.
hoggie


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## AndySingh (6 Jul 2014)

Hi guys, and thank you for getting back to me so promptly. 
Sacha the algae is a combination of hair and silk. long soft threads sometimes in excess of 30cm, easily removed with forceps and seem to have a greater affinity for attachment on anubias, java moss, vallis and tiger lotus. please see photos below. I would start dosing but not sure how to yet and also I thought because its a very new setup using substrates packed with nutrients would overload water column.
Thanks Hoggie photos uploaded on photo-bucket!


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## EnderUK (6 Jul 2014)

AndySingh said:


> No fertilizer routine at moment.


and 


AndySingh said:


> currently doing 40%+ water changes a week.



I would say that is your issue. If you're injecting CO2 you need to dose and be doing at least 50% water change a week. On a new setup tank I would be doing it three or four times a week until the algae goes.


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## GHNelson (6 Jul 2014)

Hi Andy
Photos are not able to view.
hoggie


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## EnderUK (6 Jul 2014)

AndySingh said:


> I thought because its a very new setup using substrates packed with nutrients would overload water column.



The nutrient pack substrate is to be used as a buffer when you forget to dose not a replacement for EI dosaging in a high tech tank. As Clive would say throw the test kits away as they're not accurate.


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## AndySingh (6 Jul 2014)

http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3671_zps0a461cdc.jpg.html
http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3674_zpsd22d695f.jpg.html?o=0
http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3673_zpsf68a7529.jpg.html?o=1
http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3672_zps8587657d.jpg.html?o=2
http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3671_zps0a461cdc.jpg.html?o=3
http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3670_zps4c1ce931.jpg.html?o=4


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## Edvet (6 Jul 2014)

I'd say:manually remove as much algea as you can
Lights: 2 t5 on for 6 hour
More CO2, much more CO2 (probably more circulation too) (CO2 on 3 hours before lights on, on till 2 hours before lights off)
Try to do 90% waterchanges daily for a week at least (when the plants are above the water level rub the leaves to get rid of any film/dirt/algae on the leaves), then 50% each day for a week, then 50% every other day. Ad ferts after each wc.
It would be helpfull to know your kH and wether you have an electronic pH measuring device

PS too much ferts NEVER.
, repeat NEVER,
will cause algae

Do the waterchanges before CO2 on preferably


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## GHNelson (6 Jul 2014)

Hi Andy
As the other chaps have stated you need to get a fertilizer routine up and running as soon as possible.
Reduce your lighting to 5 hours a day.
Remove as much algae as possible.
Do a 90% water change asap....up your Co2.
Get some floating plants.
Get some fast growing stem plants.
Do the largest water changes possible.
hoggie


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## ceg4048 (6 Jul 2014)

The OP is experiencing classic poor CO2 due to the classic combination of low injection rate + low flow and possibly  poor distribution.

Also, please stop wasting your energy on useless test kits and useless LFS advice.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (6 Jul 2014)

Too much light at start up and poor Co2 application....means major problems...that combined with no fertilizers.... tut tut.

Andy i would remove all the plants and wood give them a clean....bin the plants that's not salvageable.
Do a major clean up....remove 95% of the water.
Then start again.
hoggie


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## Tim Harrison (6 Jul 2014)

AndySingh said:


> http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3671_zps0a461cdc.jpg.html
> http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3674_zpsd22d695f.jpg.html?o=0
> http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3673_zpsf68a7529.jpg.html?o=1
> http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/a5139/media/IMG_3672_zps8587657d.jpg.html?o=2
> ...



OMG...what the others said...Give it another go I'm sure you'll get there, it just takes a little application and once you get the nack there'll be no stopping you


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## Tomfish (6 Jul 2014)

With such a large tank flow is a likely source of problems and I've just checked the flow rate of that filter (1800lph), those on this forum generally advise 10x turnover, so you would and another similarly rated filter or powerhead. Even then successful flow would depend on efficient use of outlets and spraybars, I found flow a tricky business and that was on a 4footer. I would guess a combination of too high light and your seriously underpowered flow have led to your serious outbreak (Those algae pics made me feel better about my various dealings with algae). I hope you get it sorted


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## foxfish (6 Jul 2014)

Chin up Andy, start a fresh with new knowledge ....


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## EnderUK (6 Jul 2014)

Tomfish said:


> With such a large tank flow is a likely source of problems and I've just checked the flow rate of that filter (1800lph), those on this forum generally advise 10x turnover, so you would and another similarly rated filter or powerhead. Even then successful flow would depend on efficient use of outlets and spraybars, I found flow a tricky business and that was on a 4footer. I would guess a combination of too high light and your seriously underpowered flow have led to your serious outbreak (Those algae pics made me feel better about my various dealings with algae). I hope you get it sorted



I would just go with a power head. In a good planted tank your filter is doing two things, providing flow and providing mechanical filtration. Your plants are mopping up the ammonia. 
Hydor Koralia Nano and Newave Circulation Pump are both cheaper than a new filter and you can direct the flow into the areas that are needed. I would think you could save a lot of the plants as in my experince most will take a beating but will thrive once you get co2, flow , nutrients all sorted. Don't be overwhelmed, go read the tutorial sections, another good forum to read is the Barr report which is the main source on EI method is rather more technical.


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## Martin in Holland (7 Jul 2014)

Or...you could leave it as it is but just put a halloween haunted house picture behind it and a pumpkin inside....

All jokes aside, I do agree with not enough CO2, flow...also try to get more (cheap and fast growing) plants in your tank, even just for the start up


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## Carl Whitbread (8 Jul 2014)

Hi Andy,
You have been give some very good advice here an ceg4048 is always worth listening to along with the other members. 

In addition to the excellent and free advice already given, here is my two pennies worth... Are you doing a water change during the time the CO2 is running? Ideally you need to do the water change either well before or at the end of the photo period. That is a must rule of CO2 injection. Algae loves fluctuating water conditions so be mindful of that. The next rule to resolve algae is to up your water changes. I had awful algae both a green dust type of the tank and also black beard algae. As a result I first trimmed off the affected leaves and removed then from the tank, don't worry they will regrow. Then I did 30% water change every day for the first week and then on the second week I changed 30% every other day and then on week 3 I did a 30% water change every third day and then after a month I did 50% water change. Yeah the water changes are heavy but if you clean algae off it will float around the tank as spores and just settle somewhere else.
I also use eco complete substrate but again be mindful that you must also add fert. Either buy it.. (expensive in long term) or do the EI diy dosing kit. Here is a link below but look around this site as they offer a 10% discount code.

http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

One other thing I can recommend is water circulation. It's ok adding ferts but if you do not have adequate water circulation then you will get dead spots and in turn algae. I bought a tunze form my 180l tank and put it the opposite end of the tank to my spray bar as I wanted to ensure that the ferts will be distributed around the tank equally. I have the eheim professional 3 (2071) it says it will do 250litres but on my 180l tank I think it is under powered so will be upgrading to the 350l model. Not enough can be said about flow and filtration.

Also look at your lighting periods. You have said that Initially 1 of each would come on from 8:00 to 14:00 and then the other set from 12:00 to 18:00, but because of algae issues I run 1 set only for the full 6hour period. I would cut back on the lighting or even adjust the light intensity if you can. Ideally when you first setup a new tank you should look at around 7 hours with a 30% of light and build it up by 5% until you get around 75%. If algae starts then drop your lights down by 5% until the algae goes. But if you have a Juwel aquarium and Juwel light system you are unable to adjust the lights. With my Juwel system I also removed the reflectors as yes they may provide 100% more light.. ... Well they also create a breeding ground for algae. I know that the seneye home monitor can be upgraded so it can measure the amount of light you have going in to the tank so maybe consider one of them if you need accurate lighting readings.

Also, set the co2 to come on one hour before the lights and go off one one before the lights go off. 

You have also not said where the tank is positioned. I hope its not in the window... Otherwise that's why you have the algae

I hope this helps and I am happy to be corrected if my advice is not accurate. Algae is awful and can be dis-heartening. We have had algae or will get it in out tank at some point so don't get disheartened just keep coming back here for the advice and support that you need.

Best of luck

PS - Keep an eye on those nitrates... They are another reason for algae


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## EnderUK (8 Jul 2014)

Carl Whitbread said:


> Hi Andy,
> Also, set the co2 to come on one hour before the lights and go off one one before the lights go off.
> PS - Keep an eye on those nitrates... They are another reason for algae


 
Good advice carl would just like to pick up on these two points. Your CO2 wants to be maximised on lights on and during the main duration of the photoperiod. At the last 1-2 hours of period it doesn't really matter about your CO2. I turn my CO2 on 2-3 hours before the start to make sure I have enough CO2.
I'm a bit confused about the PS. I and many others dump a ton of Nitrates into the water column. Nitrate doesn't cause algae in the planted tank, lack of it does.


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## ceg4048 (8 Jul 2014)

Carl Whitbread said:


> You have also not said where the tank is positioned. I hope its not in the window... Otherwise that's why you have the algae


Actually, algae does not really care if your tank s by the window. When there is a weakness in CO2 and dosing techniques, or when there is excessive tank lighting then window light exacerbates the problems. If  the techniques are adequate then window light  becomes irrelevant. See http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/algae-on-front-and-back-of-tank.29436/#post-307574



Carl Whitbread said:


> PS - Keep an eye on those nitrates...


Yeah,  because as EnderUK mentions, you might not have enough.

Cheers,


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## Carl Whitbread (8 Jul 2014)

Cheers for the follow up EnderUK and ceg4048
Well Andy, even I have learnt something about high Nitrates in a planted aquarium... and also about aquariums being near a window. I enjoy learning something new everyday and really appreciate the guidance here - thanks

Mental note to myself... I will no longer bother with a nitrate test kit in a planted tank..[DOUBLEPOST=1404829529][/DOUBLEPOST]Andy, if you do decide to go for the EI DIY dosing kit here is a link to the discount code

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ukaps-discount.14650/

And of course here is a link to the site with the starter kit. There is a youtube video on the site showing how to mix it all together. I could not believe how easy it is to make your own

http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html


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## Martin in Holland (9 Jul 2014)

I remember that I was a bit scared in putting so much ferts in my tank and I had algae all over of every kind...now I dose 2 times more Nitrates, 2 times more Phosphate, 2 times more...well I guess you get the idea ....and as result, no more algae.
I'm not saying that more ferts will kill your algae, I'm sure it won't, but more ferts *won't* give you algae.


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## ceg4048 (9 Jul 2014)

There is no point in making mixes for a 5 foot tank. Just dump the powders directly into the tank on schedule and get on with it.

Nutrition is never about killing. Nutrition make plants healthy enough to resist algal attacks.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (9 Jul 2014)

Poor aquarium hygiene/maintenance...will cause all sorts of algae.
That coupled will too much light and poor Co2.....its gonna be pea soup time.
hoggie


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## Martin in Holland (10 Jul 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Nutrition is never about killing. Nutrition make plants healthy enough to resist algal attacks.


That's what I meant....


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## AndySingh (16 Jul 2014)

Big THANK YOU to all of you who have taken the time to read my post and reply!
Some of you have proposed some radical ideas IMO - such as dismantle and re-start or '95%' water changes, these ideas would not have worked for me as its taken ages to hardscape and plant all the different species in there correct areas, but i still appreciate youre comments. I think if it were green water algae then you have no choice but to start from scratch.
You will all be pleased to know that the algae is now on the decrease, my lighting is back up to 6hours a day following 3 hour days for a week, and most of my plants are doing okay or very well. About 90% of the algae is dead dying or has been removed and it hasn't resurfaced for 4 days.

At some point I will do a larger post to explain how i have made these changes if people are interested, but the changes have been brought about through the advice that many of you have given.

I would like to start dosing using PURE dry salts. I am looking to get mono potassium phosphate or di- potassium phosphate and also a form of micro nutrients which does not include Copper or if it does, not enough to kill shrimp as I plan on keeping amano shrimp in the near future.

If you have any recommendations for good products I would welcome your ideas. Nitrates are sorted hence not interested in kno3

thanks again


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## ceg4048 (16 Jul 2014)

AndySingh said:


> If you have any recommendations for good products I would welcome your ideas.


Recommendations were provide to you by Carl in post #21.

Copper in trace element mixes are not toxic to shrimp. There is no need to be concerned about that  because shrimp actually require copper.

Cheers,


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## mr. luke (17 Jul 2014)

Agree with with Ceg, the quantity of copper you are likeley to encounter in a trace mix will have little impact on amano shrimps unless you are dumping your whole supply in at once and even then id very much doubt it.
The copper content of your tapwater is likely to be as high as the percentages in a trace mix.


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