# Eheim Incpiria 400 litre Freshwater Aquariums



## REDSTEVEO (3 Jul 2014)

Hello all,

I am thinking of buying this aquarium and starting a journal on setting up a planted aquarium for discus fish. When it is complete with about 12 to 15 discus from Stendker and a hundred or so cardinal tetras I think it will look amazing.

https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/aquariums/freshwater-aquariums/new-incpiria_400-white

Has any body else out there got one of these they can share knowledge on. I also want to get the Eheim 600T Thermo filter to go with it, but not sure if it will fit under the cabinet without kinking the pipes.

https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/technology/external-filters

All advice appreciated.


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## James O (3 Jul 2014)

That's a nice looking setup 

for a 400l braced aquarium costing £1450 at charterhouse I'd look into a custom cabinet & stand from ND aquatics. Mid guess half the price or if you opt for braceless about the same


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## Edvet (3 Jul 2014)

Old skool values: 50 lit per discus. Either large waterchanges or a big filter/sump can lessen that. (I have worked with and showed Stendkers for 10 years).


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## REDSTEVEO (3 Jul 2014)

You are right it is a nice looking set up! Looks gorgeous when you physically see it. It has got an integrated dry weir in black glass at the back in the centre where all the pipes and cables are hidden with a hole drilled through the cabinet and tank. This means that you have got no cables or pipes hanging over the back of the tank or sticking out behind the cabinet. The cabinet can go flush against the wall. I looked on ND Aquatics site and they are cheaper, but it all got a bit complicated when I started talking about dry weirs and holes. Their policy is that they do not copy other peoples designs.

But thanks for the tip.[DOUBLEPOST=1404404635][/DOUBLEPOST]





Edvet said:


> Old skool values: 50 lit per discus. Either large waterchanges or a big filter/sump can lessen that. (I have worked with and showed Stendkers for 10 years).



Thats funny, when I looked at some of the distributors who Stendker deal with, they say said 16 litres per discus which I know is a lot less than what you say 50 litres per discus. They advocate that discus are better kept in groups of at least six or eight as they shoal and feel more secure in groups than in ones and twos. Based on your theory of 50 litres per discus that would mean that I could only put four discus in a 400 litre tank which would be crap. I am going to use an Eheim Professional 3 600T and a Eheim Professional 2 filter for this setup.


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## allan angus (3 Jul 2014)

Thats funny, when I looked at some of the distributors who Stendker deal with, they say said 16 litres per discus which I know is a lot less than what you say 50 litres per discus. They advocate that discus are better kept in groups of at least six or eight as they shoal and feel more secure in groups than in ones and twos. Based on your theory of 50 litres per discus that would mean that I could only put four discus in a 400 litre tank which would be crap. I am going to use an Eheim Professional 3 600T and a Eheim Professional 2 filter for this setup.[/quote]

lol been trying to do some research on discus so far ive lernt...
1 fish per 5 galls .. 1 fish per 10
use a bare bottomed tank no decoration .. plant and roots are fine
low light .. they don't mind bright light
use a deep tank ..use a shallow tank
wont grow with out beef hart .. beef hart is an unnateral food
and lots more usefully contradictory information by all sorts of peep lol


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## REDSTEVEO (3 Jul 2014)

Lots of people have their own views. I bred discus in bare bottomed tanks in Germany years ago and fed them on beef heart, white worms, bloodworms, flake, pellet as much variety as possible. Low light is good but high light is okay as long as they have some shadier places to go into to.

I think there is nothing better than seeing discus happy and shoaling in a quality planted tank. EOS.

http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/data/photos/43_1aquarium_discustank_fishtank.jpg


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## Edvet (3 Jul 2014)

My take on discus: 50 lit is a guide,not a hard rule. I have seen 100-150 discus in small tanks, but there was a huge filter behind it.
Young discus need a lot of food, older ones still eat a lot. With large amounts of food you will need to clean water or replace dirty water a lot. 50 liters give some more headroom, the larger the system, the more stable. Plants and substrate act as cleaners so can help, but you must make sure you don't have food lying around and decaying. Bare tanks make hygiëne easier,(if you have tens of tanks this makes cleaning easier) but aren't neccesary.
Plenty of food and clean water are the things discus need , the cleaner you can keep the water the better they feel. Within reason they dont need very soft water as long as it clean.


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## sanj (3 Jul 2014)

REDSTEVEO said:


> Based on your theory of 50 litres per discus that would mean that I could only put four discus in a 400 litre tank which would be crap.



Don't you mean 8?


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## REDSTEVEO (3 Jul 2014)

Yes you're right 400 litres would take 8. I am looking at discus around the 5 to 8 centimetre size.


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## Edvet (4 Jul 2014)

And to get those small ones looking great you need to put a shi#load of food in the tank, and hope they grow out good. My advice has always been if you buy big ones you know what you get, if you buy small ones you never know what you will end up with. In situations with limited numbers buy as big as you can afford, you'll be happier in the end, like in the pic above, these weren't put in the tank and grown out, these where selected from a group of maybe hunderd or two hunderd.


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## REDSTEVEO (4 Jul 2014)

Yes I know what you mean, I have experienced this myself in the past. I'll have a think about it again.

Anyway lets not talk discus on this thread, it was really meant to be about the hardware, i.e.the Eheim Incpiria 400l tank and cabinet in high gloss white. People are saying you can get cheaper versions at places like ND Aquatics. I have looked at them and they are okay, but they don't come with the lights so there is the pfaffing about to be had afterwards. If you are going to do a job you are proud of you need the right kit. I have saved up for two years to start this project so I have budgeted for everything I am going to need. Tank cabinet, filter, ADA Amazonia, plants etc.

Any body think its worth going the whole hog and getting the ADA PenacP, Tourmaline BC and Bacter 100 to start it off.


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## dw1305 (4 Jul 2014)

Hi all,





REDSTEVEO said:


> Any body think its worth going the whole hog and getting the ADA PenacP, Tourmaline BC and Bacter 100 to start it off


No.

cheers Darrel


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## James O (4 Jul 2014)

If your that far in already you might as well   Tbh I don't think I've read a journal where someone used the whole ADA startup


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## Edvet (4 Jul 2014)

Which plants where you thinking to use? I would use simple gravel and roottabbs for some large swords (see first posts of my large tank in my signature)


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## REDSTEVEO (4 Jul 2014)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,No.
> 
> cheers Darrel


No - Why, is it because you think it is too expensive? Not worth the money? No significant benefits? I have seen this stuff used in demos at the Green Machine and one or two other places. It is around £30 odd quid a tub for each. I have seen it advertised on eBay for around £11.00, but it is from Hong Kong, does that means it is dodgy stuff

If I bought it and use it I wonder how much I would have left over for future use, or to sell on maybe?[DOUBLEPOST=1404482204][/DOUBLEPOST]





Edvet said:


> Which plants where you thinking to use? I would use simple gravel and roottabbs for some large swords (see first posts of my large tank in my signature)



I do want some large structural plants like the swords in the picture, but I want to include a carpet of a combination of either, Glosso, Dwarf hair grass, utricularia, hemianthus and some wood with Fissidens on etc. Last time I did a set up I used all ADA Power Sand, Amazonia soil and Amazonia powder. The soil was okay, but the powder I found to be a bit too light and fluffy to hold the utricularia and hemianthus in until it rooted. Lost most of it and its not cheap. Might mix the powder with another substrate on top of the soil to give it a bit more grip.


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## Edvet (4 Jul 2014)

Large amounts of food and dense carpets don't mix well, just be carefull


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## dw1305 (4 Jul 2014)

Hi all,





REDSTEVEO said:


> is it because you think it is too expensive? Not worth the money? No significant benefits?


Pretty much all three of those. Some more here details here:
<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/proper-attempt.28830/page-2#post-300302>.


REDSTEVEO said:


> fluffy to hold the utricularia and hemianthus in until it rooted. Lost most of it and its not cheap


 I've never had any success at all with either _Utricularia graminifolia_ or _Hemianthus_ submersed, but they both grow fine out of the water.

This is _U. graminifolia. _<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/georges-tmc-signature.25103/page-4#post-258932>. I lost my potted plant in the winter 2012/13 (it was in the lab. over Christmas and I think they turned the heating down too low for it).

This is _Hemianthus_ emersed <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hemianthus-micranthemoides-doesnt-like-me.29232/#post-305304>.

I think both Tom and Alastair have had success with carpets low tech. so they may be able to offer some alternatives.

cheers Darrel


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## REDSTEVEO (4 Jul 2014)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Pretty much all three of those. Some more here details here:
> <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/proper-attempt.28830/page-2#post-300302>. I've never had any success at all with either _Utricularia graminifolia_ or _Hemianthus_ submersed, but they both grow fine out of the water.
> 
> This is _U. graminifolia. _<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/georges-tmc-signature.25103/page-4#post-258932>. I lost my potted plant in the winter 2012/13 (it was in the lab. over Christmas and I think they turned the heating down too low for it).
> ...


Going to look at these threads a bit closer over the weekend. To be honest I've never had any success with Utricularia graminifolia or Hemianthus either. Either not enough light, not enough CO2, not enough NPK, or not enough water circulation. Plus the stuff just would not root quick enough in the Amazonia powder. When I did have enough water movement it lifted the plants out of the substrate.This is one of the reasons I am thinking of mixing the final Amazonia powder with another more heavier substrate.

Talking of lighting, the Eheim Incpiria 400 litre tank comes with 2 x four foot 54 watt T5 tubes with an additional light unit as an option. I am getting the option so I will have 4 x 54 watt T5 Tubes for 400 litres of water. Although these are bright daylight tubes and I might have to swap two of them out for less harsh light.


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## James O (5 Jul 2014)

Just a quick question.  Which version of this tank are you getting, marine or freshwater?

The marine definitely has the weir, but from that I can see the freshwater has (from eheim website) "Discreet water return to the external filter via bottom drilled hole at the back of the tank" (pic on eheim site shows this but it's not inside the 'maintenance shaft' and not on marine version) and "Integrated maintenance shaft (black glass) for hidden water inlet and electricity cables". This shaft contains water inlet (return from filter) and cables only.  This is not a weir.  You'd need to get the marine version for the weir and you get a sump too!


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## pepedopolous (5 Jul 2014)

Before you hit the 'buy' button it seems that Eheim's new Proxima aquariums are launching in September (in Germany at least).

https://www.eheim.com/de_DE/produkte/aquarien/suesswasser-aquarien


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## REDSTEVEO (5 Jul 2014)

James O, The version I am going for is the Fresh Water version without the weir and the sump. The fresh water version has a dry weir which is described on the Eheim site as an  "Integrated maintenance shaft (black glass) for hidden water inlet and electricity cables". It is in the center at the back of the aquarium. From the pictures on the Eheim website you can't see the "Integrated maintenance shaft (black glass) for hidden water inlet and electricity cables". but it definitely has one. The only place I have found that has this in stock is the Abyss Aquatic Warehouse in Stockport, which by the way is definitely worth a visit if you are ever in that neck of the woods. I have seen it twice now it is better looking than all the aquariums I have had so far. Two weeks to go! Can't wait!![DOUBLEPOST=1404584562][/DOUBLEPOST]





pepedopolous said:


> Before you hit the 'buy' button it seems that Eheim's new Proxima aquariums are launching in September (in Germany at least).
> 
> https://www.eheim.com/de_DE/produkte/aquarien/suesswasser-aquarien




Hi I just looked at these and the biggest one they do in the Proxima is the 325 liter and they are all meant to be open top with pendant lighting which I am not keen on. Discus can sometimes get spooked and leap straight out of the tank


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## pepedopolous (5 Jul 2014)

Never mind, seems like you have things nicely planned. Enjoy! 
P


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## Iain Sutherland (5 Jul 2014)

they are lovely looking tanks, very tidy and modern looking keeping it all clutter free.  My only reservation would be the fact its drilled... but that is more because i like to rescape at least once a year and drilled tanks give you limited flexibility  Im guessing you would be keeping it set up for the long term so not such an issue.

I also think discus look better in smaller numbers, they almost look cluttered in large numbers..?? but thats just me.

Skip the UG, im sure all the pictures ive seen of UG carpets have shopped' the carpet in 
Monte Carlo goes well low tech, have it in my shrimp tanks in my sig if your want to see..  would a dense carpet plant make it hard to clean a discus tank though??

I found the biggest drawback to Amazonia powder is it turns to mud if you ever change your layout around, causes terribly cloudy water and dirty plants if disturbed second time round.  Doubt ill ever use it again.

Either way steve i will be subscribing to the journal once you get it all going


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## REDSTEVEO (7 Jul 2014)

Journal coming soooon......watch this space


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## NC10 (8 Jul 2014)

I've just seen the new journal thread, have you ordered/bought this now?


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## REDSTEVEO (8 Jul 2014)

Errrrr ordered it yes why? I see your picture on your signature is the same as the picture in this thread....


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## NC10 (8 Jul 2014)

Just looking forward to seeing it 

Well spotted. I like a lot of ADG's work


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## REDSTEVEO (8 Jul 2014)

Thanks, panic over, I thought you were going to tell me something horrendous

Journal, 'The full Monty' is under construction!!


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## REDSTEVEO (28 Jul 2014)

Hello All...this thread is being continued in the Journal - ' The Full Monty Coming Soon'

Thanks,

Steve.


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## peaches (28 Jul 2014)

Edvet said:


> And to get those small ones looking great you need to put a shi#load of food in the tank, and hope they grow out good. My advice has always been if you buy big ones you know what you get, if you buy small ones you never know what you will end up with. In situations with limited numbers buy as big as you can afford, you'll be happier in the end, like in the pic above, these weren't put in the tank and grown out, these where selected from a group of maybe hunderd or two hunderd.



I know what you mean, but I find buying adult discus takes all the fun out of it.  I like a dozen small, to watch them grow.   I bought a Fluval Osaka a few years back and it came with several adult discus.  They were never particularly happy after the move, and despite a year of trying to match their exacting demands, i decided to let someone else take over.  Their hiding if everything wasnt exactly right was a tad annoying.  When you get a large group of youngsters, admittedly they wont all be show standard fish (not my bag anyway), but they are bold and fun to watch, quite happy to come to the surface for food, and will take it from the hand.


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## REDSTEVEO (29 Jul 2014)

Hi Peaches, I agree 100% that buying large or fully grown adult discus takes the fun out of it, it takes all the mystery and challenge out of raising them from about two to three inches into adults, plus you get to see some natural pairing action going on...

I have bred Discus in Germany and in Hong Kong so I know how much work goes into getting the fry up to a few inches...it's virtually a full time job...

Cheers Steve[DOUBLEPOST=1406639773][/DOUBLEPOST]





REDSTEVEO said:


> Lots of people have their own views. I bred discus in bare bottomed tanks in Germany years ago and fed them on beef heart, white worms, bloodworms, flake, pellet as much variety as possible. Low light is good but high light is okay as long as they have some shadier places to go into to.
> 
> I think there is nothing better than seeing discus happy and shoaling in a quality planted tank. EOS.
> 
> http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/data/photos/43_1aquarium_discustank_fishtank.jpg


Can anyone tel me how to copy this picture from this thread into my new Journal 'The Full Monty - Coming Soon' I have tried with the original but it comes out fuzzy and smaller than this one...


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