# 72l Forest walk first aquascape



## silverteen (4 Feb 2011)

Ive got my plans, done alot of research and started buying alot of equipment etc as i take the plunge into aquascaping.

As i wait for some more equipment etc to arrive before I can make a start I thought i'd document my plans and equipment ready to update when i start.

Equipment:
Brillux 72l tank
2 x 18w T5 lighting
Fluval E 100w heater with LCD digital temp display
using the stock internal filter that came with the tank but planning to upgrade to an external filter asap.
Hagen nutrafin co2 system (basic i know)

Hardscape - various drfitwood, stone, ecocomplete substrate and manado substrate.

Ive ordered lots of other bits, test kits, cleaning equipment, etc

I've also placed an order for plants from plants alive so everything is taking shape.

the aquascape design is for a forest with large driftwood trees at front and smaller ones at the back to give impression of depth and a small winding track/path winding through. Nothing original or unique here but i wanted something i could acheive with my low ish tech tank.

Im planning on have a mix of guppies and tetras.

Pics to follow once set up commences!


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## George Farmer (4 Feb 2011)

Sounds good!  

Consider getting another Nutrafin unit if you can't afford pressurised CO2.

This way you can alternate changing yeast mixtures to get a better and more stable CO2.

You can DIY your own mixtures too, using supermarket yeast and bi-carb of soda.  I had success using 2 units in a 125 litre when I started out in planted tanks. 

I look forward to the pics.


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## LondonDragon (4 Feb 2011)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> You can DIY your own mixtures too, using supermarket yeast and bi-carb of soda.  I had success using 2 units in a 125 litre when I started out in planted tanks. :


I did exactly the same thing, I did however have a air stone coming on during lights out to give the fish a break and swapped one solution on a Sunday and the other on a Wednesday to keep CO2 levels always high.


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## Radik (4 Feb 2011)

Don't bother with nutrafin or adding 2nd one when you sum up cost. 1 disposable bottle for 10, regulator for 13 and needle valve for 7. All from e-bay. And you are better off  and smooth running, disposable bottle will last you few months on that tank  Cheers


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## logi-cat (4 Feb 2011)

i agree with Radik, DIY CO2 to fluctuate depending on the amount of yeast and sugar you put in. With a disposable kit, CO2 is more constant and stable and you can adjust the amount of CO2 coming out the bottle as well. It's something worth considering.


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## nayr88 (4 Feb 2011)

Its worth considering, but, as george and Paulo said and I will say, DIY co2 does work and it may be abit extra effort and in the long run more money than the initial outlay of going pressurized on an FE set up, but it can work, to a degree.

I'd say yourll struggle to get a low dense HC carpet or grow some of the high co2 dependent plants, but with additional co2 enrichment via liquid carbon the plant choice increases a whole bunch, at this early stage having already bought the kit, I'd rather see the money go towards extra flow from a Koralia, that way all the basic basis are covered, 

There decent light there's a source of co2, flow, and nutrient dosing. 

Depending what you want from the tank, ie pearling HC carpet ect or just a nice jungle of healthy plants. The pearling hc carpet is going to need pressurized co2 but I nice jungle of healthy planyts could be achieved by good nutrient dosing good flow and adequate lighting along with a source of co2   

What method or brand of fertilizing are you going for? 

Why mix manando with  eco complete?

Cheers


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## LondonDragon (4 Feb 2011)

This tank was running two nutrafin kits with DIY method:


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## nayr88 (4 Feb 2011)

And thus......I eat my words haha

Okai so its possble but would I be right in saying that was not your 1st attempt? I know you have forever rescaped and changed the same tank, but I mean the 1st ever attempt at scaping let alone growing underwater plants?

Also ill add you sunday to wednesday routine was pretty militant lol


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## LondonDragon (4 Feb 2011)

That was my first scape with CO2, I started with one bottle and was struggling so upped it to two, after a couple of months got great results, that tank had been running about about 8-9 months when that photo was taken, when I upped to two bottles I poisoned the fish with CO2, so that's when I introduced the air pump during the night, this all before I even knew UKAPS existed. (read the first post of my journal, all I used in that scape is there).


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## StevenA (4 Feb 2011)

Radik said:
			
		

> Don't bother with nutrafin or adding 2nd one when you sum up cost. 1 disposable bottle for 10, regulator for 13 and needle valve for 7. All from e-bay. And you are better off  and smooth running, disposable bottle will last you few months on that tank  Cheers


Any chance of the links for those bits Radik?

And I look forward to following this Journal, sounds like it will be  8)


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## nayr88 (4 Feb 2011)

Well I'm not one to argue if the point is proven.... Well done Paulo 

So I now say get 2 bottles and buy the yeast mix yourself.  

Paulo would you care to share your yeast mixture abit more indepth? Size's of bottles used mixture ect, I have a spare tank I wouldn't mind setting up for the plantedtank competition but won't be able to get it close enough to my FE set up to split the co2 with a T peiice.

Cheers


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## George Farmer (4 Feb 2011)

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/to ... ser-guide/


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## nayr88 (4 Feb 2011)

Nice one george , ill have to dig my old nutra fin bottle out.


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## Radik (4 Feb 2011)

I am not saying Nutrafin is bad, of course it works but price wise it is bad investment. 

Regulator: http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_trkparms ... p=15&_sc=1 15.00 Free delivery
Needle valve: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Feinnadelventil-N ... 20addf0baf 7.50 +4.50 delivery
Co2 Bottles: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Clarke-x-3-Co2-Ga ... 4aa84d1345 36 with delivery. This will get you for over one year for your sized tank maybe 1.5 year, Or buy just one piece for around 12 with delivery

If you need any help putting it together just PM me. I have other regulator with 2 gauges from same manufacturer. 

http://www.techweld.co.uk/index.php?act ... ductId=373 It was cheaper last year but still cheap enough comparing to others and UK made. My second C02 will be without gauges as I discovered I do not need them.


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## silverteen (7 Feb 2011)

I'll have to look into the co2 once its all set up and ive got everything in order a bit more.

Im looking at external filters and in two minds to go for a hang on abck external filter or a external filter like the fluval 205?

i  havent got much funds and need to buy second hand but ive found a new external filter for £39.99 delivered which is for a 200 litre + tank. would this be too powerful for the 72 litres i have? it doesnt have a control for the amount of flow used that im aware of.

any advice?


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## nayr88 (7 Feb 2011)

What is the rated LPH on that? I've got a fluval105 filtering a 15 liter tank  and I'd like to get a 205 so I'd say go for that external, more flow the better 

What filter is it?


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## silverteen (7 Feb 2011)

its this one here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

its not a big brand, but i wont be stocking the tank heavily so im mainly after water movement and light filtration.

i cant really afford more than £40 an external filter is proving difficult to find at that price.


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## nayr88 (7 Feb 2011)

Mate, I'd snap that up! 

If I have a spare 70quid I'd get 2. Very good offer,  ill be a soggy sock you won't find one cheaper new for a 200L tank else where

Cheers,,


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## silverteen (7 Feb 2011)

do you think it would be too much flow? im guessing it may be 1000 lph and i only have a 72 litrer!  is that too much?


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## silverteen (7 Feb 2011)

Just prepared the hardscape tonight....
added substrate with "path".... the substrate is around 3inches deep at the front and 5 at the back, a bit more than i expected but im guessing it cant be a bad thing?




then added the "forest"




ordered lots of plants which i hope will arrive wednesday. (how long can these plants survive in transit/out of water?)

i managed to bargain a guy on ebay to let me have his 2 week old fluval 105 external filter for £45 delivered which i thought was good.

just got a few small bits to buy now.

any comments on the aquascaping appreciated, be gentle its my first time! 

the idea of the piece of driftwood on the floor/edge of path was of a fallen tree which im hoping will look more realistic with some moss etc on it. the same with the stones.


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## marthin (8 Feb 2011)

My word.. this is going to be good.


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## silverteen (8 Feb 2011)

I hope so marthin!Still learning lots so hopefully i wont mess it up.

Could some one give me some advice....

my plants arrive wednesday when i plant to plant them and then slowly fill the tank with water.

Should the heater and filter be running as soon as the tank is full?

when should i set up the nutrafin co2 system?

when should i change water and what %? Should i wait before adding fish food to start the cycle?

when should i start dosing... i have easycarbo and tropica nutrition + (how often?)


sorry for all the questions but dont want to mess it up if i can help it!


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## marthin (8 Feb 2011)

I'm will be watching for the answers on this.  I had the heater, filter and CO2 running as soon as the tank was filled with heated water.
As fertilizer, I'm well in the dark.  Got some advise to go along with EI system, so awaiting the dry good.  Growth can be manic

Of course it will look good, we all dream differently.. thank goodness!!


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## silverteen (8 Feb 2011)

Any one know the answer to the questions above? Any help appreciated thanks


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## George Farmer (8 Feb 2011)

silverteen said:
			
		

> Should the heater and filter be running as soon as the tank is full?


Yes.


> when should i set up the nutrafin co2 system?


Now.  Get the CO2 running and stable.



> when should i change water and what %? Should i wait before adding fish food to start the cycle?


50% water changes 2x per week minimum for first 3 weeks.  More frequently if you can.  50% per week thereafter.

No need to traditional 'cycle' the tank with fish food.  Just plant up, wait three weeks then add livestock gradually.



> when should i start dosing... i have easycarbo and tropica nutrition + (how often?)


As soon as you're planted.  Dose daily.  5ml TPN+ per day per 100 litre.  Same with Easycarbo.



> sorry for all the questions but dont want to mess it up if i can help it!


No problem.  Here to help!


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## silverteen (9 Feb 2011)

Thank you George, Your help will go a long way. Plants arriving today so a busy evening planned placing the plants and filling the tank and setting up all equipment. hopefully get a pic or 2 up


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## LondonDragon (9 Feb 2011)

Liking the scape so far, what plants did you order? Any plans for the tree canopy? Looks interesting so far


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## silverteen (9 Feb 2011)

Well had a parcel from plants alive and i guess i was dissapointed but not with plants alive but myself, i guess i was expecting bigger portions of plants but when ive looked others it seems that i was expecting too much.

Any way the plants are in, looks quite sparse at the moment so going to get order some more. 

got Lindernia Rotundifolia, Rotala Rotundefolia, 
Micranthemum Umberosum, HC, Indian fern, riccia, Glossostigma Elatinoides

filled the tank and all the equipment is up and running.

my hagen nutrafin co2 system is not making any bubbles yet and its been 24 hours but will give it another day or 2. Ive read that i can just put sugar water 1/4 teaspoon of regular yeast and 1 tea spoon of baking soda, is this right?  

could i use wine/beer yeast and then not add the baking soda? so just sugar water and beer yeast? :?: 

pictures to follow soon....


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## George Farmer (9 Feb 2011)

I used dried bread-making yeast. 1/2 teaspoon with tepid water (30C).  Didn't bother with bicarb.  Should start producing bubbles in 10 minutes or so.

Put yeast in first, then sugar up to first line.

Top up with tepid water then gently stir.

Close lid tightly. 

Attach CO2 hose and place ladder diffuser inside tank.

Good luck!


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## silverteen (10 Feb 2011)

Thanks george I'll get some dried yeast tonight and fingers crossed that will work, still no sign of bubbles this morning. the yeast is a cheaper method anyway so hopefully that will produce the bubbles.


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## LondonDragon (11 Feb 2011)

Have a look here for inspiration: http://peleblogs.blogspot.com/2011/01/e ... n-tan.html


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## silverteen (11 Feb 2011)

Thanks LondonDragon, thats exactly what im trying to acheive, if you get a min could you let me know some of the plants names that he has used, sorry im not very good with the technical names and identifying them yet!


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## LondonDragon (11 Feb 2011)

silverteen said:
			
		

> Thanks LondonDragon, thats exactly what im trying to acheive, if you get a min could you let me know some of the plants names that he has used, sorry im not very good with the technical names and identifying them yet!



Full setup:

Aquarius Title: Going Home
Volume (liters): 180
Age of Aquarius: 1
Size: (Length x Width x Height) 90x45x45 cm
Plants:
Fissidens fontatus
Rotala ‘Vietnam’
Microsorum sp.
Staurogyne sp.
Montagnei Vesicularia
Hygrophila sp araguia

Lighting:
1 x 150watts MH 4hrs
2 x 24watts 9hrs T5HO

Fish and Invertebrates:
Hyphessobrycon sp. peru blue / red end

Fertilizer, CO2 and substrate:
Substrate – ADA and ADA amazonia amazonia II. Total of 36kgs
Sand – sand bottom SUDO – 10kgs
Fertilization – No3 30ppm, 20ppm K, PO4 1.5ppm. ADA green gain, ECA and phyton git Occasionally.
Co2 – 3.5 bps, 10hrs


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## silverteen (18 Feb 2011)

time for an update...

did a slight rescape using different driftwood i collected at the local beach, happier with these pieces, had 2 deliveries of plants, and now i feel i have all i want in terms of plants, just waiting for them to settle in and to fill some of the gaps.

hope the hairgrass covers the centre back wall and other pants grow to hide alot of the pipework behind the tank.

got the c02 system running well using yeast and baking soda, thanks george (again) for your help.

any comments advice always welcome... opinions good or bad...any do or donts?  had some weird jelly like algae over one piece of driftwood which i threw as i doubt it was boiled long enough and some plants had bits of algae on them, so have bought a spray bar to be fitted in soon.

tank with first order of plants..





as it is now after all plants added... front view




side view


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## silverteen (19 Feb 2011)

Nobody?


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## mdhardy01 (19 Feb 2011)

Like the look of the scape like the idea of a forest look
You could try a black background use some card to see how it looks it will hide some of the equipment and give the impression of looking into a dark forest 
Just my thoughts
Matt


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## nayr88 (19 Feb 2011)

I thought I posted on this yesterday lol maybe I did and didn't send haha.

Well what I thought I said was.

Very good start mate, plenty of plant mass, easy going plants and different (in a good way) scaping, keep ontop of you tank maintenance and it'll ggrow into a great tank, what are plan for stocking? How are you getting on with the diy co2?

Cheers

Just see Matts post, defo get a background mate.


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## George Farmer (19 Feb 2011)

The hardscape looks great and definitely gives the impression of the 'Forest Walk'.

Not much else to add to what's been said.  A black background will help.  Keep up the water changes, fertilisers, CO2 etc. and this will look great.

Well done!


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## Mark Evans (20 Feb 2011)

A good start my friend.  

To give a little bit of inspiration, take a look at this. It'll give you something to aim for.

http://www.aquaticscapers.com/en/contes ... ail=77&z=2

A similar style to yours.


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