# Algae Problems Help Please



## anniekins (30 May 2009)

Please can I have some advise as to what I need to do to overcome the BBA that I have in my tank. Just to give you some background,this is my first tank and I finished cycling it about two months ago. 
Tank Spec: 65L
Lighting: 2x11WPL on for about 7 hrs daily
CO2: None
Filtration: Inhood wet / dry trickle system
Fertilisation: ProFito 10ml weekly. EasyCarbo 5ml daily and EasyNitro 10ml daily.
*Plants:*
Camboda
Vallis
Anubais Various
*Fish:*
Corydoras Julli x 4
Harlequin Rasboras x 8
The Camboda is looking very healthy and bushy, Vallis is going a little transparent in places otherwise looks okay. The anubais do have dark algae on the leaves but are growing new leaves.
I did have an outbreak of Cyanobacteria which I think started in the substrate at the front of the tank and then spread fairly rapidly. I did a complete blackout of the tank for three days and thankfully it cleared. I was advised to increase circulation in the tank so I purchased a Koralia 1 about three weeks ago. 
Now I am sure I have BBA. I have not increased the dosing of EasyCarbo/EasyNitro as I'm not sure how much more I can add before it becomes toxic to my fish. I also carry out 20% water changes weekly.The algae is on the 3D background, some plants and a little on the bogwood.
Any advise would be very welcome, and thanks in advance.


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## Ed Seeley (30 May 2009)

BBA is down to a lack of CO2, or equivalent.  I think, as you're dosing EasyCarbo, that it means you might need to up the dose of that product.  If you're already dosing at the higher rate on the back of the container (and I think you might be from the amounts you're adding) then I would add more straight away but use the EasyCarbo to spot treat the BBA by taking each day's dose in a syringe and squirting it directly on the algae.  It will bleach and die within a day or two.

Long term you will either need to very slowly up the dose or maybe you need to be more consistent with your dosing?  Do you always dose at the same time each day?  Ever miss a day? (I know I do!!!)  These factors could allow the BBA to perhaps gain a foothold when the EasyCarbo isn't present in the water (it only lasts 24hours in the water so if you often dose 30 hours apart then there will be none in the water for 6 hours and this could easily be done by dosing in the morning one day and then in the evening the next day).


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (30 May 2009)

What about the flow - after reading the thread "wet and dry filtration in the hood - this an aqua one tank  :?:  :?:  :?:.

Regards
Paul.


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## nry (30 May 2009)

EasyCarbo (or others) will melt the vallis, it's a common issue.


EasyCarbo has a half-life of 24hours....this doesn't mean it is all gone after 24hours, just that the amount left in the tank is half of what you dosed...

2 months of a tank is still early days, so keep going


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## anniekins (30 May 2009)

First of all thanks for all your replies. 

Just to clarify on the EasyCarbo spot dosing as I have not done it before. The BBA is spread over about 75% of the 3D background, so, do I focus on a small area each day eventually covering most areas?

I will now make a point of adding the EasyCarbo at a regular time. I have been dosing each evening,but within a range of two to three hours.

Paul, you were right, the tank is indeed an AquaOne with the added Koralia 1 now.

Will keep you posted as to how things progress, and thanks once again.


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## Ed Seeley (30 May 2009)

anniekins said:
			
		

> Do I focus on a small area each day eventually covering most areas?



Yep!


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## anniekins (1 Jun 2009)

Unfortunately I have noticed some BGA appearing now as well as small patches of GSA on the tank. I feel that algae is taking over the tank!

I have moved the powerhead to focus directly on the patch of GBA which is on the background along with the BBA. I have syringed the EasyCarbo onto the background with BBA, but should I now place it on the GBA patch?

I was wondering if I need to up the daily dose of EasyNitro, at the moment,I am dosing 10ml in 65L, and I'm not sure how much I can add safely before it becomes toxic to my fish.

Please let me know what I can do to get all this algae under control as I feel rather out of my depth at the moment with this being my first tank. :? 

Thanks once again in advance of any replies.


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## ceg4048 (1 Jun 2009)

anniekins said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I have noticed some BGA appearing now as well as small patches of GSA on the tank. I feel that algae is taking over the tank!


That's because nitrate, phosphate and CO2 starvation are the landlords of the tank.



			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> I was wondering if I need to up the daily dose of EasyNitro, at the moment,I am dosing 10ml in 65L, and I'm not sure how much I can add safely before it becomes toxic to my fish.


Probably about 1000ml if this is a typical commercial fertilizer, which are notoriously weak. The more you fear nutrients the more algae your tank will get.



			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> Please let me know what I can do to get all this algae under control as I feel rather out of my depth at the moment with this being my first tank. :?


Firstly, you need to disable about 50% of your lighting. This is where it all starts. Light intensity drives the need for plants to feed. You have a combination of high lighting and poor nutrition, which is fatal.

You also need to do more water changes. Twice or thrice per week of 50% or more.

I have no idea what a "Inhood wet / dry trickle system" is. Whatever type of pump powers this system, it should be rated at no less than 650 liters per hour. You need to have high flow and distribution throughout the tank to ensure that nutrients are delivered to the plant surfaces.

Double or triple your dosages. The products up are using are clearly insufficient. I also don't see where you are adding any Phosphate products, so if you choose to use that particular brand of ferts then ensure that they have a phosphate product, or alternatively, switch to Tropica Plant Nutrition plus TPN+ which is an all-in-one fertilizer.

In general the following are the relationships between the types of algae and their root causes:
BBA - poor or inconsistent levels of CO2 - In your case, since you do not inject CO2 you need to dose more Easycarbo, which is an alternate source of CO2.

BGA - poor levels of nitrate - add more nitrate.

GSA - poor levels of CO2 and or phosphate - add more Easycarbo and phosphate.

Someday, when you tire of paying ridiculous money for the tepid fertilizers, you may want to "roll your own" for about 1/100th the price you are currently paying. Check out the Tutorial thread EI DOSING USING DRY SALTS

Cheers,


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## anniekins (1 Jun 2009)

Thanks so much for your quick response.

I have carried out tonights dosing already so tomorrow I will start with a 50% water change, and will cut the lighting.

The EasyCarbo does state 2ml maximum per 50L, I've been dosing 5ml, would you advise to start adding 10ml or 15ml each day or even more? I had thought about adding more but the warnings about overdosing on the bottle did worry me, and in all fairness I do not have enough experience or knowledge to make a fair judgement.

The EasyNitro dosage says 10ml per 500L which it states increases NO3 concentration by 2.0ppm and K concentration by 1.3ppm. How much do you advise I dose each day of this product?

You are correct on the phosphate issue, both the EasyNitro and ProFito are phosphate free! I guess thats next on my shopping list!

I have just received my new stock of fertilisers ,but I think I will try the Dry Salts in the very near future. Thanks for your time ,I very much appreciate it and will do all you suggest, and hopefully gain an algae free tank. Wonderful!  

Cheers


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## ceg4048 (2 Jun 2009)

OK, remember to dose immediately after the water changes though.

EasyCarbo can be doubled without issues as long as certain plants like liverworts, bladderworts and some other species (such as Vallis or Egeria for example) are not present.  I don't see these in your stated plant list. It has been estimated that the liquid carbon products have about 1/3rd or less the effectiveness as standard gas injection levels. Many, including myself have triple dosed Easycarbo without issues but since i haven't seen every possible scenario such as inverts and so forth I hesitate to suggest this.

Section 3 of the EI dosing Tutorial calls for the following weekly concentration addition:
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week.
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week.
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week 

You need therefore to determine how many times per week you will dose and divide the stated concentration levels by that number. This will tell you how much to add. So for example if you decide to dose 5X per week then Nitrate needs to be dosed at 20ppm/5doses = 4ppm per dose. If 10ml per 500L increases NO3 concentration by 2.0ppm then you would need to add 20ml per 500L 5X per week to execute the 20ppm NO3 per week.

A similar calculation is needed for K, but since ppm increase is lower it would mean a quadruple dose. Keep it simple for now and don't worry too much about the K. It will be well enough for now to just double the dosage.

Remember also that all these corrections to your technique have an additive effect, so some actions may obviate the need for others. If you cut your lighting by half you will have a dramatic effect on the nutrient/CO2 requirements, i.e there is less need to increase the dosages. If you cut light and improve flow/distribution there is even less need for dosage increase. Since we don't know exactly where we are in this equation it's necessary to perform all actions and re-evaluate the health of the tank after a few weeks. Then we can make further adjustments in one direction or another.

Cheers,


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## anniekins (2 Jun 2009)

Have carried out a 50% water change tonight. I have increased the EasyCarbo to 10mls and EasyNitro to 20mls. The lighting has also been reduced by 50%. 

The plants I have are Anubias, Camboda and Vallis.If the added EasyCarbo is going to destroy the Vallis but help clear the algae what would be the better course of action:
Remove the Vallis and continue the higher dose of EasyCarbo?
Reduce the EasyCarbo back to 5mls?
Continue the higher dose with the Vallis in place and see what happens?

I have read your information several times, and I must admit that I never realised that EI dosing was quite so complicated, but I am determined to get things right with a little perseverance and guidance for which I thank you once again!

I will keep you informed as to how things progress over the next few weeks.


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## Simon D (2 Jun 2009)

anniekins said:
			
		

> The plants I have are Anubias, Camboda and Vallis.If the added EasyCarbo is going to destroy the Vallis but help clear the algae what would be the better course of action:
> Remove the Vallis and continue the higher dose of EasyCarbo?
> Reduce the EasyCarbo back to 5mls?
> Continue the higher dose with the Vallis in place and see what happens?
> ...



I'd remove the Vallis every time. If you can re-home it temporarily in another tank all the better, or just give it away. If you continue the higher dosage of EasyCarbo it doesn't stand a chance (well it didn't in my very similar setup). 

That said; overdosing EasyCarbo is a temporary cure and not a preventative measure and should not be viewed as one (before anyone else says it)!   

Also, EI dosing isn't complicated (I was very worried the first time I did this though  ). 
I mix my dry ferts into a solution, once you've done this a couple of times it only takes five minutes (well less actually) to get a mix that will last a month. Don't try to be too accurate, I've got some measuring spoons that go down to 1/8th of  a teaspoon but don't bother with the 1/1000th gram scales. Just slap it in there and get it nearly right, the important thing is to be consistent so then you can make adjustments if needs be, at a later date.


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## ceg4048 (3 Jun 2009)

Err..quite so complicated? EI is as simple as adding sugar to your tea. I'm serious about this. It's we humans who are complicated. Think about this analogy for a minute;

Let's say every morning you have 1 cup of tea with 1 teaspoon of sugar and two teaspoons of milk. Any more sugar/milk and you find it too sweet and any less you find it too bitter. Let's say one morning 3 friends come over all who like their tea the same way you do.

How would you prepare a batch of tea for one serving each? Think about the calculations you would make for the amount of water, the amount of tea leaves, the amount of sugar and the amount of milk.

Now imagine that these friends like their tea differently than you. The first likes her tea half as sweet as you do. The second like it twice as sweet but half the milk. The third likes it as you do but wants twice as many cups.

Now, because I'm writing about it, it _sounds_ complicated, but isn't this an every day occurrence? The concept is simple - we always want a certain sweetness regardless of how much water we have, but we need arithmetic to determine the proportions of the ingredients. After many mornings serving tea it will become second nature to decide how to prepare each persons beverage and to make adjustments if someone decides they want more or less. In conclusion...if you can serve tea you can dose EI, no doubt.  

If you have vallis, increasing the liquid carbon dosage might prove problematic, but here is my opinion; One needs to learn techniques of how to grow healthy plants and of how to resolve algae issues. One can always get more vallis. If the vallis can be removed and held in quarantine then so much the better, but losing vallis is not nearly as depressing as having a tank full of algae. I leave it to you...

Cheers,


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## anniekins (3 Jun 2009)

Thanks for the replies guys. Have taken them all on board. 

As you say there is no contest.........the algae has to go! Therfore I will be removing the Vallis tonight. I can always replace it in a nice algae free tank after all.

I enjoyed reading your analogy, it helped to get it into perspective, after all making tea........... dead easy! 
Feel quite confident now that I will soon be carrying out EI dosing as good as I can brew a good cuppa!    

Will let you know how things progress on the algae front.

Cheers,


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## anniekins (12 Jun 2009)

Just to update on the reduction of algae so far; the tank is certainly alot clearer, most of the algae has been removed, just a small amount remains on a section of bogwood which I am spot dosing, the 3D background has greatly improved.

Have been carrying out thrice weekly 50% water changes and adding 20mls EasyNitro, 10mls EasyCarbo daily and 20mls ProFito after each water change, and reduced lighting by 50%.

Should I continue with the thrice weekly water changes or, reduce to twice a week now?

I am also getting low on the EasyNitro liquid,I do want to try the dry fertilisers but am a little concerned as I will be away on holiday in about five weeks time and I do not know how long it can take realistically before getting things stabilised  with dry fertilisers. Would you advise continuing as I am at present with the liquid fertilisers or changing to dry fertilisers now?

Thanks once again in anticipation of any replies.

Anne


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (12 Jun 2009)

Anniekins

If its working for you with off the shelf fertz - "stick with it" I was dosing E.I and it didn't work for me, it ruined my tank and I have gone back to my profito and daily dosing.

Regards
paul.


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## ceg4048 (12 Jun 2009)

Well, I'm completely biased in favor of the dry powders so I see no reason whatsoever to buy more liquid, or to wait. However, to avoid pressuring you, if you feel more confident/comfortable with the liquids then continue with them. It's just that they are unnecessarily expensive, that's all. If you need help figuring out how to mix just give a shout. If you don't want to trawl through the EI tutorial, you can also use JamesC's formula as well PMDD - Poor Man's Dosing Drops Plenty of options.  

Try reducing to 2X per week water change. The tank will let you know right away if this was premature.  

Cheers,


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## anniekins (14 Jun 2009)

Thanks guys for the replies, and sorry to hear about your experience of E.I. Paul I do hope your tank is looking better again. At least you had a try at it, even if things did not work out as well as you had hoped. I am sure things will get back on track.

I have spent a very long time reading your tutorial ceg4048 and it is clear that you have an absolute wealth of knowledge to share, awesome! Read as much as I could find this afternoon but now feel a little confused by it all....... sorry.  :? 

Where do I start?..... Well, I am confused as to what is really necessary to add and what isn't. I did read somewhere (but can't remember exactly where) to use the following: Trace mix, 3tsp in 500ml, 2nd bottle containing Potassium Nitrate 10tsp in 500ml and Potassium Phosphate 2.5ml in 500ml. Dose 0.5ml of each per 10L each day.

On the PMDD it lists the above plus Potassium Sulphate and Magnesium Sulphate. Would these "extras" be there to replace the trace elements in the first mix?

Please let me know what you would recommend I start with as I really do not know what is essential and what isn't. Oh! I nearly forgot to mention, I do not have small scales so will be using teaspoons for measuring and I also have to admit that my knowledge of chemical symbols is very rusty..... sorry!

Perhaps I should go back to making tea!  

Thanks again
Anne


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## ceg4048 (14 Jun 2009)

Hi Anne,
            It hadn't dawned on me until recently, that like you, a lot of people were confused by the fact that the EI recipes vary so much from website to website. I'm gonna stick with the food analogy because it's the most appropriate. How many recipes for lamb stew have you seen? Scores of them. And they all are a bit different. Some call for more salt, others add carrots. In the end, they all fill your belly and even though some may taste better than others, any one is about as nutritious as the other. The idea is to fill your belly.

Since I value simplicity I try to use the minimum number of ingredients and to get the most bang for buck. In the recipe you listed, the mixture stays the same and the volume dosage varies as tank size changes. This is also how the commercial bottles function. In my recipe I do the opposite and vary the initial mixture, based on tank size, but keep the volume dosages the same. The effect is identical. The difference is in the chef.  

Your tank is 65L, which means it's more or less a 15G. I don't like the number 15 so I'll round up and assume it's a 20G. I could just as easily round down and pretend it's a 10G, but if I round up I can just use the standard 20G dosages listed in the tutorial. Instant simplicity.  

Chemical Formula Legend
KNO3 = Potassium Nitrate
KH2PO4 = Potassium Phosphate
MgSO4 = Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts)
K2SO4 = Potassium Sulphate
NPK = Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium mix
CSM+B = Trace mix

I'll pull the basic numbers directly from the tutorial:

1 month = 4 Weeks
3 doses of NPK per week
Therefore there are 12 doses of NPK per month.
Multiply a single dose teaspoon value by 12 => [3/16 tsp KNO3]*12 = 2 Â¼ tsp KNO3 (In you case you can easily round down to 2 tsp.)
[1/16 tsp KH2PO4]*12 = Â¾ tsp KH2PO4 (In your case round up to 1 tsp)
[1/2 tsp MgSO4]*12 = 6 tsp MgSO4
Add these to 600ml of tap or distilled water

CSM+B as a powder or if it more convenient add 8 * 1/16 tsp => Â½ teaspoon to 200 ml of water and dose 25 ml two times per week.

Now this mixture must serve 12 doses so each dose is 600ml/12 = 50ml
This makes life easier because you need only dose 50ml of this NPK solution 3 times per week.

Now, this scheme is based on dosing NPK only 3 times per week and Trace mix only twice per week but I guess many people freak out - mumbling things about how they can't remember which day to dose what, so the daily dosing routine came about, again, which mimics the commercial bottle's dosing scheme. Don't be confused. It's all the same - 3 larger NPK doses per week is the same as 7 smaller doses per week. Also, can you see how flexible it is? Who wants to measure out 2.25 teaspoons of KNO3? Just make it 2 and call it good. The same with KH2PO4. 3/4 tsp is a drag - just make it 1 tsp and "Bob's your uncle". The people who lay out these other recipes never explain this so beginners think they have to be locked into a specific formula. EI was never meant to be a shackle. Adjust as you go. In fact, you are doing EI right now with your Profito liquids. Didn't you simply adjust the dosages to fill the plants bellies? As a result it contributed to your algae clearing up a bit right? There is no difference in comparison to the dry powders other than the fact that the liquids are costing you 100X more than necessary. EI is interactive. It's a "World View" and is not married to any product or any recipe. The only difference is that I choose to pay the Tesco price instead of the Harrod's price. This is SPECIFICALLY why the tutorial is entitled EI Dosing *Using Dry Powders*.

If you want daily dosing then instead of dividing the 600ml NPK mixture by 12 doses per month, simply divide it by 30 doses per month. So it would be 600ml/30days = 20ml per day. I mean, one need not be Albert Einstein to figure that one out.   Don't like the fact that it calls for 600ml total volume? Do you like 500ml instead? Fine, add the same amount of powders to 500ml/30 days = 16.67ml per day. I don't like this weird dosage number (that's why I picked 600ml) so call it 15ml per day and get on with it.

So to summarize, this is your basic NPK numbers=> 2 tsp Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) + 1 tsp Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) + 6 tsp Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4) added to your water volume of choice. Whatever water volume you choose, divide it by 30 to get a daily dosage and round up or down for convenience.

The trace mix is done the same way. 1/2 teaspoon of trace mix to 200ml/30 yields 6.67 ml per day. Again this is too weird so how about adding that powder amount to 300ml and dosing...wait for it...10ml per day. How mentally taxing was that?

Now just compare how much 2 teaspoons of KNO3 cost versus the amount of Profito Nitroglycerine or whatever you're using. 2 teaspoons weighs about 12 grams according to JamesC's website, so a 250g bag of this stuff will last you almost 2 years. The price difference is astounding. Farmers buy this stuff by the truckload and you can find it in any good gardening center - just below the the shelf which holds the 50 kilo sacks of Cow manure. I mean, lets keep it real folks.  

Cheers,


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## anniekins (14 Jun 2009)

Thanks ceg4048 for taking the time to explain so fully the calculations and for trying to make it as easy as possible, I really do appreciate it. I have read it through a few times and I must say "the fog is definately clearing.....For now anyway!  

Have ordered the powders tonight so I will be able to start in a few days time. Just to clarify on the water changes though, will I still need to carry out 50% changes twice weekly to continue from where I am now? Also should I dose straight after the water changes have been carried out as usual?

Thanks once again
Anne


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## CeeJay (15 Jun 2009)

Hi Anniekins


			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> I have read your information several times, and I must admit that I never realised that EI dosing was quite so complicated,


That's what I thought when I first started reading the EI tutorial, so I had to read it many times. Once digested it was like I had a eureka moment (well it has been known on occasions   ) and it all made sense to me.
With the help of Clive (ceg4048), who I have to say, has a wealth of knowledge and experience in this planted tank field, plus help from many others, I took the plunge into EI about two weeks ago.
All I can report is that my plant growth has gone mental, and that was after reducing my lighting to 6 hours a day whilst dealing with a new tank algae issue, but that turned out to be a flow problem which is now sorted. I'd hate to think what the plant growth will be like when I ramp the lighting back up.  

Three things I have learnt from this EI stuff is 
1. It is simple once you understand it.
I must admit I have started thinking like Clive, (that man's got a lot to answer for   ), when it comes to this EI dosing lark, so here's my take on it. 
As a human being we eat food every day (well most people do!). So do the plants.
Now if I ate a meal every day, I would eat until my belly was full and leave what I didn't want. So do the plants.
If I didn't do the washing up until the weekend I would have seven plates, all with some food left on them. This is the excess that was not required. Same applies to EI.
Then at the weekend I clear the plates and wash up (do the 50% water change) and calm is restored for the next week.  

2. It is much better to overdose than underdose, for sure.

3. It's a lot cheaper than the commercial liquid ferts so everyone's a winner.  

The results (for me anyway) are superb, thanks to that excellent EI tutorial. 
My plants have never looked so good.  

Chris.


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## ceg4048 (15 Jun 2009)

anniekins said:
			
		

> Thanks ceg4048 for taking the time to explain so fully the calculations and for trying to make it as easy as possible, I really do appreciate it. I have read it through a few times and I must say "the fog is definately clearing.....For now anyway!


As Chris said you'll have a Eureka moment after you actually start mixing the powders a couple of times and later will wonder what the fuss was about.


			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> Just to clarify on the water changes though, will I still need to carry out 50% changes twice weekly to continue from where I am now?


Well try to remember why you were doing the multiple water changes. It was to rid the tank of ammonia as well as to rid the tank of as many algae spores as possible. The spores just turn into more algae plants which produce more spores. Once you get the plants healthy and if the algae then disappears there is no more need to do the multiple water changes. Just resume your regular water change schedule of once a week. I can't see your tank but if it's cleared up as you say then go back to the single water change and see how the plants respond.


			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> Also should I dose straight after the water changes have been carried out as usual?


Well, sure. Think about the logic for a second. If you do a 50% water change haven't you just removed half of the food along with half of the algae spores? When you add new water back, it's un-dosed, isn't it, so you need to replenish the food that you removed.

Anytime you see the beginnings of an algal bloom in your tank, your immediate reaction ought to be to implement large, frequent water changes to get rid of the spores and to immediately dose right after to make sure the plants remain well fed. This should be an automatic response. The sooner it's implemented the less severe will be the bloom.

One more thing about water changes; Don't be passive when doing the changes. Actively get into the tank and fluff the plants. Grab the stems by the scruff of the neck and give em a shake. This sounds absurd, I know, but here's why; Every submerged surface in a tank gets covered with a very thin biological film. This film covers absolutely everything and there is a community of microscopic organisms that inhabit this film. A world unto their own. The plants actually contribute to this film because they excrete organic waste products such as proteins as well as gasses such as oxygen. This film is called the "epiphytic layer" and you may recognize the word from epiphyte (plants that sit on top of other plants) or epidermis, the upper layer of skin. Algal spores tend to settle in this film and this is where they wait for things to go awry. The proteins and carbohydrates excreted by the plants settle here and the film makes it difficult for CO2 and nutrients to penetrate through to the plant cell membranes. Fluffing the plants, gently rubbing the leaves between your finger, or even a general roughing up disrupts the film and dislodges a lot of the organic waste and algal spores. Sometimes the waste is obvious and looks like typical detritus, which it is. These undesirables can then be siphoned out during the water change. Here is a security camera capture of "Creature from the Black Lagoon" invading the tank and assaulting the plants. You can see the siphon tube adjacent to the area being assaulted. Don't be afraid to get in there and throw a few punches. You'd be surprised how much this helps. This is like kicking algae in the groin. My water changes are violent.





Cheers,


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## anniekins (15 Jun 2009)

Thanks for your replies guys. Chris I am glad that you are happy with your experience of E I and your plants are enjoying it too. I am looking forward to starting mine as soon as everything arrives which should be in the next few days.

I totally agree with you on the expertise that members on this forum have. Their willingness to give their time and share their knowledge with newbies like me is a real credit to them. 

I am amazed by the patience shown by all, but I feel I do need to say a big "Thank you" in particular to ceg4048 (I haven't used your name as I do not wish to offend you) for your in depth explanations which have helped me no end in understanding the requirements of keeping a healthy tank and plants, and also for not making me feel like the village idiot!  

I am aware that I have so much to learn, but I have to say, I am really enjoying it every step of the way and I am looking forward to that Eureka moment very soon!  

Will keep you posted.


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## CeeJay (16 Jun 2009)

Without meaning to hijack this thread   


			
				anniekins said:
			
		

> but I feel I do need to say a big "Thank you" in particular to ceg4048


I would like to say that too,   ,   without his patience answering what must be mundane questions for him, I think this planted tank game would have been a lot harder for me to comprehend easily.  
His explanations are in laymans terms which suits me just fine.
It's people like ceg4048 who really make this an enjoyable learning curve as opposed to a tedious one and I for one am glad to have got involved.

Chris


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## ceg4048 (16 Jun 2009)

Happy to help and even happier that that you have the patience to read through all the words.    Understanding the basic foundations and having a willingness to learn is the key. This will empower you to help others as well.

Cheers,


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## aaronnorth (16 Jun 2009)

> Grab the stems by the scruff of the neck and give em a shake



 
thanks for the tip.


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## CeeJay (17 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Grab the stems by the scruff of the neck and give em a shake.


I didn't know that either.  


			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> This sounds absurd, I know


It does. But it does make sense. Would have never thought to do that on my own.
I used to treat my plants with kid gloves.  
I guess it's time I got ready to rumble (in the jungle) 
Thanks

Chris


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## anniekins (18 Jun 2009)

Fertilisers arrived yesterday, EI is now underway!  Will keep you up updated.
Cheers
Anne


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## anniekins (25 Jun 2009)

Just a quick update, I'm pleased to say that everything appears to be going very well. There are barely any signs of algae in the tank or even on the background at the moment. There is just a very tiny amount of brown algae on some anubias leaves, but it really is a very small amount.The plants are looking good and filling out, so I'm going to reduce the number of water changes whilst watching developments carefully,I'm soooooooooooooooooooo happy!    
Thanks
Anne


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## ceg4048 (26 Jun 2009)

Another satisfied customer. 8) 
Another mind freed from the tyranny of The Matrix.  

Just keep on top of things. Plants filling out is both boon and bane. Boon because it indicates optimal health, but bane because higher plant mass drives higher demand for nutrients/CO2/maintenance with less tolerance for mistakes.

Anubias is a real pain because the mature leaves are so slow. If I'm getting good growth rates I try to clip these infected leaves off. The young leaves grow relatively fast so they are not as prone to algal attacks. If you can have these plants shaded by other, taller plants that does seem to help as well.

And just think, you didn't even have to teleconference with Stephen Hawking and the Cambridge Astrophysics Lab to mix your fert solution, right?  

Cheers,


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## anniekins (26 Jun 2009)

absolutely right, with your help it was as easy as ..................... making tea!  

The only problem I have coming up is that I am away for seventeen days in a few weeks time and I don't have anyone to look after my tank as the family are all going as well.

I have a neighbour who would be able to pop in a few times but as he's retired he does tend to go away quite often so I can't rely on him too much. I know that there are food blocks available but obviously I've not encountered this situation before. Any suggestions as to what I can do to keep the plants ticking over and the tank as algae free as possible in my absence?
cheers
Anne


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## ceg4048 (26 Jun 2009)

Just lower the light intensity and duration while you're gone and that reduces the demand for nutrients/CO2.

Cheers,


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## anniekins (26 Jun 2009)

Thanks for the advice again but could I just clarify the following points: :? 

 What duration of light would be the bare minimum to keep the plants ticking over each day? 

Can I leave the lights off altogether whilst away, or would that be totaly detrimental ? 

If I added the fertilisers and CO2 just before I leave would it last through to my return (17 days later) in your opinion?

Sorry for so many queries but I really do not want to return to a tank full of algae again or, even worse dead fish, as the tank is now looking at it's best since it was started earlier this  year.  

Thanks 
Anne


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## ceg4048 (26 Jun 2009)

Hi Anne,
            Well...the first question is the $64,000 question. Plants need to use food at the same time they are producing food. Since we don't know the rate at which either is occurring, any number I give you would be pure speculation I'm afraid. We know that an 8 hour photoperiod is about the max that plants need but the intensity is another issue. When I leave town I typically drop my lighting and CO2 by about 50% or so. These are just general figures. If the lighting intensity is too low then the plants cannot produce enough food. If it's too high they run out of nutrients and algae attack. The thing is that if your plants are well fed now and they are fattened up, then it would be better to err on the side of caution and have a low intensity. They can use their food reserves for these 17 days and they will be a bit thin when you get back. If there is too much CO2 and light then you'll have an algae farm to fix when you get back. It's much easier to put the fat back on than to clean algae.

17 days with only ambient light is kind of like a long blackout. I actually did this experiment to see how long it would take to wipe out all traces of the plants. I went 12 weeks with ambient light only no CO2 and no ferts. Of the 60 odd species in the tank, the last remaining plants were the ferns, some crypts and some hygrophillas (Bravo!). The first to disappear were the any red plants and high CO2 plants after 4 weeks or so (not surprisingly). The next quickest to disappear completely were P. helferi and L. aromatica at about the 8 week mark.

You can add some fertilizers just before you leave but if you add a lot, say the entire 17 day amount here is what happens: The plants feed like crazy and increase their biomass like that plant character in "Little Shop of Horrors". This increased biomass now runs out of nutrients quicker, start to decay and algae attacks.

I can only suggest that you do a massive water change, like 90% dose a normal amount and simply convert the tank to an "approximate" low tech environment by lowering CO2 and light intensity. If your vacation is in the distant future then experiment now for the next 17 days and see how the tank reacts.

Cheers,


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## anniekins (28 Jun 2009)

Thanks once again for in depth reply, as always it is greatly appreciated. 

I will of course follow your advice on doing a 90% water change before leaving, but as for the lighting, do you think about three hours a day will be sufficient  or will I need to increase or even reduce the time further whilst away?  

One other query if you don't mind............. on the final dose of fertilisers will it be best to add the usual 10mls of EasyCarbo or omit it altogether?

I go away in about 22 days so I think I will leave the trial so the plants are well fed and fattened when I leave.Fingers crossed all will be okay on my return!  

Cheers
Anne


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## anniekins (6 Aug 2009)

Just a quick update, after returning from Thailand yesterday.

All fish were fine after the 90% water change before I went away.   The tank has alot of algae on the 3D background, and the Koralia 1 has stopped working after only a few months........ a little disappointing to say the least! 

Done a 75% water change today, put some new plants in, cleaned tank throughly and have re-started the fertiliser dosage. 

Now it's time to catch up on the some lost sleep!  

Regards 
Anne


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