# Persistent Trouble Maker



## Quetzalcoatl (23 Dec 2013)

Having some major issues with this stuff. Not sure if it`s hair algae or fungus of some description. The source is at substrate level and as you can see from the images if left unattended it spreads quickly (1 week) It`s becoming a real nuisance and I`m out of ideas!

I have tried reducing the photoperiod.
I have reduced feeding to a minimum.
I have kept on top of maintenance.
And Excel wont touch it.
Despite all these actions it still keeps hold.
Pleas help UKAPs. This is a battle I need to win.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Dec 2013)

Looks like diatoms. Have you tried reducing your light intensity? With the relatively low plant mass in there, the light looks very bright.

Manual removal is best with a pipe. Its a
Common occurrence in pre-mature aquascapes until plants settle. Then It just seems to disappear on it's own.


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## George Farmer (23 Dec 2013)

Yep, diatoms. Very common in new setups.

Manual removal, more frequent and larger water changes, and an algae crew should see it off in a week or so.


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## Quetzalcoatl (23 Dec 2013)

Possibly mate. However, tank was flooded back in July so would of thought I had got past the Diatom stage by now. 
Maybe intensity could be the cause but the HC is doing so well I was reluctant to mess. Currently running a Hagen Glo 2x24 watt over a 60 ltr tank. It`s suspended about 6" and photoperiod last 6 hrs.

It`s my first Iwagumi and it`s proving to be a bit off a challenge.

Thanks for the input.


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## Quetzalcoatl (23 Dec 2013)

To add. Crew of 8 Japonica`s and 2 Otto`s. Not interested.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Dec 2013)

It's just to do with the very low plant mass in comparison to nature style aquarium aquascapes. 
I would definitely raise the light and possibly even remove one bulb altogether. You'll get slower but much more manageable growth.


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## dw1305 (23 Dec 2013)

Hi all,
I know it looks "brown" which would suggest diatoms, but the long filaments mean that  I think it is a "green", _Rhizoclonium._ I've never had an iwagumi, but I might try manual removal and upping the KNO3 addition a bit.

cheers Darrel


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## Quetzalcoatl (23 Dec 2013)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I know it looks "brown" which would suggest diatoms, but the long filaments mean that I think it is a "green", Rhizoclonium. I've never had an iwagumi, but I might try manual removal and upping the KNO3 addition a bit. cheers Darrel


 
Just Googled "_Rhizoclonium" It would appear we could have a match. (*Description*:- Strands of fine green or brownish threads which are soft and slimy)_
_General consensus is lack of ferts, poor CO2, and a general lack of maintenance. My CO2 and flow are good, and maintenance is done weekly. So I will be re-evaluating my EI & dosing. _

_I am a little confused though as judging by the health of the HC I thought everything was fine. testament to the Aqua Soil I suppose? Which leads to the question....Does dosing the water column benefit plants if they are getting a good supply of nutrients from the substrate?_

_Thanks everyone. _


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## Andy Thurston (23 Dec 2013)

It looks like brown cobwebs? I thought diatoms was more of a slimy brown film. This looks very similar to whats growing on my filter outlet. It seems to get worse if i forget to add nutrients. I don't know what my algae is, and couldn't get a pic for id but this could help 
Cheers


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## kirk (23 Dec 2013)

I like say Nice scape.  even with the trouble maker is it siphonable? I run 2 x 24w t5's over a 80x40x40cm  for 5 hr  I had major algae problems to the point I destroyed my favorite scape so far. Now I have moved my lighting up and Down and got it to the point I'm cleaning the Glass for something to do rather than getting rid of diatoms/ algae. I now totally get this lighting lark as my son Megga low Tec looks great and it hassle free  less light on ours is cutting the work to the minimum. I'm even considering going lowe Tec when Nat sends me the little beauties.crs our tubes are approximately 60cm from the substrate at the moment.


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## Quetzalcoatl (23 Dec 2013)

Thank You Kirk. 
Syphoning doesn't work as unfortunately It does anchor itself to my hair grass and HC. It's a bit of a tangled mess to be honest. Best way to remove it is with a chopstick. Twirl it around like candy floss. It has a soft, fluffy appearance until it is removed from the water then it changes to a more slimy texture. 
I am considering reducing light intensity but I fear for the HC. In my experience it likes light and lots of it. I am not experiencing any other algae either, a little bit of BBA on the hardscape but minimal. Which makes me think increasing KNO3 is the way to go.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Dec 2013)

Quetzalcoatl said:


> Thank You Kirk.
> Syphoning doesn't work as unfortunately It does anchor itself to my hair grass and HC. It's a bit of a tangled mess to be honest. Best way to remove it is with a chopstick. Twirl it around like candy floss. It has a soft, fluffy appearance until it is removed from the water then it changes to a more slimy texture.
> I am considering reducing light intensity but I fear for the HC. In my experience it likes light and lots of it. I am not experiencing any other algae either, a little bit of BBA on the hardscape but minimal. Which makes me think increasing KNO3 is the way to go.



Use a toothbrush, it will do a much better job of removing this. HC does like light, but if it cannot get enough nutrients / co2 to utilise said light, algae will appear. 
Reducing light will definitely have an effect, but adding more KNO3 May help too.


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## sparkyweasel (24 Dec 2013)

Most freshwater diatoms are, as you say, the cause of that horrible brown slimy film we know so well. But at least one genus, _Melosira,_ forms brown or greenish threads.


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## dw1305 (24 Dec 2013)

Hi all,





sparkyweasel said:


> But at least one genus, Melosira, forms brown or greenish threads


 Yes it could well be a diatom like _Melosira_, _Rhizoclonium_ is just a guess. You would need a bit under a microscope to be sure.

_Melosira_ definitely does form brown filaments, and there is a common freshwater species in the UK, _M. varians _which are the brown threads you get in moderately polluted rivers.

<Melosira varians>
.

 

Cheers Darrel


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## Quetzalcoatl (6 Jan 2014)

Time for drastic action!! 






Didn't want to go down this road but felt this was my only option after failing to see any improvement in the tank after making changes.
I started by reducing light intensity I saw no noticeable change. I persisted for over a week but still the Algae ran riot. When I noticed my HC starting to yellow I bottled it and reverted back.
Hopefully everything will come through and then I can revisit my dosing and prevent another crisis like this one.  This is day 3. Reckon it`s safe to take a peek?


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

I have this problem right now on a much smaller scale.

I've been told to reduce light intensity, keep up large water changes and get shrimp in.

Nice looking scape, I hope mine grows this nicely.

Looks very healthy minus the diatoms 

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jan 2014)

How is the blackout coming on?


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## Quetzalcoatl (13 Jan 2014)

After 4 days of blackout I can report that.......The Algae remains. I have had to resort to cutting the hair grass right back to try and remove as much algae as possible. I have also done a deep clean on filter and all pipe work which I must confess were in need of attention. I finished the black out around 5 days ago and have noticed that the algae growth has slowed. This is a positive as at it`s most intense the strands would grow 2" in 48hrs. Keeping fingers crossed.

Thanks for the compliments Richard. Hope you have more success than me!!


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## Richard Dowling (13 Jan 2014)

Quetzalcoatl said:


> After 4 days of blackout I can report that.......The Algae remains.



Great, I was hoping for a blackout miracle that I could follow your footsteps on! It appears my hc is destined for the bin if I don't find a solution quick.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## Quetzalcoatl (13 Jan 2014)

Hi mate. I will say that HC, for me has been a mare over the years. This is the first time I've been successful with it in 4 attempts. In this set up I originally started the DSM method. Turned out great. Lush growth, and a nice healthy carpet. Beautiful it was. I decided to take the plunge (Excuse the pun) and flood. After 2 weeks the carpet died. Disheartened and ready to quit I just left alone, neglected water changes, went days with no ferts. All of a sudden I noticed new growth and decided to let it run it`s course. And eventually, after 5 months I am back to where I was. Point being......Give it time. I found that unless conditions are spot on HC will take a lot of time to make it`s transition. Persistence!


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## Alastair (13 Jan 2014)

Hey mate I missed this. Glad to see you back at it and finally a hc carpet.  Well done pal. Looks great


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## Richard Dowling (13 Jan 2014)

Quetzalcoatl said:


> After 2 weeks the carpet died. Disheartened and ready to quit I just left alone, neglected water changes, went days with no ferts. All of a sudden I noticed new growth and decided to let it run it`s course.



I'm not sure the neglect approach is the answer just yet haha

But Thankyou, patience isn't my strong point, I'll keep on at it! Good to know nightmares can turn into beautiful scapes!


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## Quetzalcoatl (13 Jan 2014)

Alastair, hello. I haven't been around in ages. Life has been real hectic for a while now. Sod's law, wasn't expecting much from this tank was a bit of a suck it and see. After we moved in the summer I managed 2 weeks with no tank. Had to get something set up.


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## plantbrain (16 Jan 2014)

Quetzalcoatl said:


> Just Googled "_Rhizoclonium" It would appear we could have a match. (*Description*:- Strands of fine green or brownish threads which are soft and slimy)_
> _General consensus is lack of ferts, poor CO2, and a general lack of maintenance. My CO2 and flow are good, and maintenance is done weekly. So I will be re-evaluating my EI & dosing. _
> 
> _I am a little confused though as judging by the health of the HC I thought everything was fine. testament to the Aqua Soil I suppose? Which leads to the question....Does dosing the water column benefit plants if they are getting a good supply of nutrients from the substrate?_
> ...


 

NEVER assume your CO2 is good.
Melosira is more likely the alga in question. Rhizoclonium is very green in color.

Shrimp can get rid of it, if you fluff off the majority of it and do not feed the shrimp.
More frequent water changes should help, particularly if the CO2 is at fault. 
So 2-3x a week etc till the alga is gone.

HC grows super floating on moss in any of my tanks, same for Gloss, E hydropiper etc, any of the carpeting plants.
So water column ferts alone are ample for these foreground plants. But floating, and DSM...........what might they be getting they are limited by underwater?

Now there's a good question for you.


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