# Handwash / lotion and fish tanks



## jameson_uk (5 Apr 2020)

With the current situation and combination of being at home (a lot) more and washing hands more often I wondered whether this could potentially cause issues for fish?


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## Andy Taylor (5 Apr 2020)

I guess if we rinse our hands well after i dont see an issue. Been doing it for 3 weeks with no dead or sick fish.


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## sparkyweasel (5 Apr 2020)

What we _should _do, even in normal times, is to wash our hands* well before putting them in the tank, rinsing all traces of soap/handwash etc off. Then wash them thoroughly again after working in the tank. 

*including up the arms at least as far as they are going to be submerged.

I take my watch off, - it is waterproof, but it seems to accumulate a lot of dirt in its nooks and crannies.

You can get shoulder-length disposable gloves for aquarium use, which could be good if you have sensitive skin, allergy problems or sores, but I don't think most people need to go that far.


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## jameson_uk (5 Apr 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> What we _should _do, even in normal times, is to wash our hands* well before putting them in the tank, rinsing all traces of soap/handwash etc off. Then wash them thoroughly again after working in the tank.



Indeed but I guess at some point it will build up no matter how much you rinse?

I have found my hands a bit sore and put some E45 on.   I managed to stick my hands in to pull out a poor leaf and noticed a little oily slick.  I had rinsed my hands before but there was obviously still some residue.  I guess this is what I was more concerned about.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (5 Apr 2020)

Not sure what the difference between rinsing your hands and putting them in the tank would be?


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## sparkyweasel (5 Apr 2020)

jameson_uk said:


> Indeed but I guess at some point it will build up no matter how much you rinse?
> 
> I have found my hands a bit sore and put some E45 on.




Soap etc should rinse off OK, but E45 is more persisent. I use Nivea, but I put it on at bedtime so it has time to work before I wash my hands. By the time I do tank maintenance in the evening I must have washed my hands about 20 times since applying the lotion Not had any oil slicks so far.


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## sparkyweasel (5 Apr 2020)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Not sure what the difference between rinsing your hands and putting them in the tank would be?


The difference between soap going down the plughole and soap getting into your tank?


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## jameson_uk (5 Apr 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> The difference between soap going down the plughole and soap getting into your tank?


 I guess this was if it comes off with rinsing it will come of in the tank, if you have rinsed everything off it won't.


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## tam (5 Apr 2020)

I don't think soap builds up as each scrubbing would remove any residue from the previous scrubbing, so at most traces of your last wash if you didn't rinse well enough. I generally try and remember to rinse my arm under the tap (no soap) before sticking it in the tank just in case. I think antibac is probably not a problem either as that's designed to rub in/evaporate rather than leave a residue - again I'd just rinse. It would be anything designed to stay on the skin e.g. hand cream, some medical creams etc. that you'd probably want to use soap and water to remove and then rinse with water. Then pop your arm in the tank with some shrimps and they'll pick you clean for a really polished finish


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## Ady34 (5 Apr 2020)

I have seen an awful lot of unexplained fauna deaths in aquariums on social media this past few weeks. Many have attributed it to extra chlorine/chloramine added to the water supply. Unsure that this would be the reason for those who use appropriate dechlorinator methods. More plausible perhaps is the notion that the added use of antibacterial hand steriliser perhaps enters the water column. I have no knowledge per say of this but it seems to be more realistic, I dont know the way this would effect the cycle however it would seem logical that it would have a negative effect on filter/tank bacteria and possibly cause a cycle stall and perhaps resultant ammonia spike.
This isn’t at all scientific, and may not hold any real credible theory, but to me seems more logical.


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## tam (6 Apr 2020)

Ady34 said:


> I have seen an awful lot of unexplained fauna deaths in aquariums on social media this past few weeks. Many have attributed it to extra chlorine/chloramine added to the water supply. Unsure that this would be the reason for those who use appropriate dechlorinator methods. More plausible perhaps is the notion that the added use of antibacterial hand steriliser perhaps enters the water column. I have no knowledge per say of this but it seems to be more realistic, I dont know the way this would effect the cycle however it would seem logical that it would have a negative effect on filter/tank bacteria and possibly cause a cycle stall and perhaps resultant ammonia spike.
> This isn’t at all scientific, and may not hold any real credible theory, but to me seems more logical.



The active ingredient (the bit that provides the antibacterialness) in a lot is alcohol and that wouldn't have any effect on occupants/filter bacteria unless you were squirting a bottle directly in. It works because of the alcohol concentration, as soon as you dilute it in a tank full of water it won't work any more. It's something like 60-70% alcohol needed... a tiny trace on your hands from using it an hour before diluted in a 30, 50, 100L+ tank wouldn't knock anything out. I guess you could worry about added extras that might effect shrimp in a small volume e.g. if it's got some weird essential oil to make it smell nice, but again as long as you rinse first I doubt it would cause a problem.

I would think more likely people are bored and mucking about with their tank more than usual and that's why, if there is an actual increase not just a perceived one (more time to write social media posts too), there are problems.


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## mort (6 Apr 2020)

I always got laughed at when I ran the shop because I'm right handed but only ever put my left hand in tanks where possible. This was mainly because I prefered to keep my active hand that was more likely to get cuts and abrasions, out of the potential bacterial melting pot, but also so I could eat and do normal things with less chance of getting anything (mostly dealt with marine tanks which have fauna from all over the word and corals with funky mucus and potentially toxins). I did get stung by an anemone once that gave me septicaemia which ran up my arm and around my heart. I had to have the strongest antibiotics they can give without hospital admission. 
So basically I always wash my hands thoroughly before I put them in a tank and then afterwards, plus the inevitable time you think you have finished, just washed, and then notice the plant floating on the top again. In all those years soap and water hasn't caused me any problems but I'd never advise putting you hands in the tank if you had put something else on them which can't be as easily rinsed off. If you have to put lotions on then either time it till after you have worked in the tank, where gloves or try and coincide a nice water change with it.
As an aside and example, there were a few problems in the past where people had flea treated their pets with the liquid meds that go on the neck and these are designed to hang around on the skin. In more cases than seems coincidental, heavy tank loses where attributed to people putting their hands in their aquaria shortly after (again in the marine world and I know some wormer are used in freshwater for planar ia but I don't know how the chemical makeups compare).


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## BarryH (6 Apr 2020)

Thanks to Jameson for posting this thread and all who have taken the time to reply. It may not be a biggie but it is a really important one in the current times.


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## tam (6 Apr 2020)

mort said:


> As an aside and example, there were a few problems in the past where people had flea treated their pets with the liquid meds that go on the neck and these are designed to hang around on the skin. In more cases than seems coincidental, heavy tank loses where attributed to people putting their hands in their aquaria shortly after (again in the marine world and I know some wormer are used in freshwater for planar ia but I don't know how the chemical makeups compare).



That's a good point, that's one thing I try to be aware of - I avoid putting my hands in the tank at all the same day we've put spot on treatment on the dog.


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## ian_m (6 Apr 2020)

Righto....here's one reason why sanitisers & antibacterial soaps can cause fish issues.

Many contain benzalkonium chloride or some variation (I have used to it to de-algae my patio, until price after Covid pushed it through the roof). It is relatively safe for humans, on skin and if accidentally swallowed, BUT in material safety data sheet is "very toxic to aquatic organisms", in doses as low as 0.1mg/litre.

Some sanitizers are literally 0.01% benzalkonium and glycerine and smelly perfume.


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## tam (6 Apr 2020)

Googling, though it's also used as a treatment for some fish diseases and a disinfectant in aquaculture despite the potential toxicity. 

"Benzalkonium chlorideis aquaternary ammonium compound (anitrogenous mixture ofalkylbenzyldimethyl ammonium chlorides of various even-numbered alkyl chain lengths). It is typically sold and used for biocidal applications, having activity against bacteria and viruses. A number of the producers surveyed used benzalkonium chloride, typically at about 2 mg/l for up to 30-60 min. The health professional and vets questioned confirmed it is widely used through the industry, particularly as an alternative treatment for the control of bacterial gill disease. It was noted that, as it can be toxic at higher concentrations than the 2-3 mg/l typically applied, it had to be used carefully."

http://www.sarf.org.uk/cms-assets/documents/208213-793666.sarf100.pdf

It's also the active ingredient in these antibacterial wipes which are supposedly fish/reef safe: https://reefbuilders.com/2014/08/29/aqua-defender-antibacterial-foam-wipes-fish-reef-safe/# - can't find a datasheet with concentration though.


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## ScapingScotsman (2 Sep 2021)

Just to add onto this, as I work in the chemistry field, and most specifically hand gels, rinses disinfectants etc due to covid.

Firstly benzalkonium or BAC50 should not be in anything hand wash, hand rinse or hand gel related. Its lethal stuff.
It's used in disinfectants at such a small amount due to its effectiveness in killing nasties and mostly in litchen and moss killers. It can soil any surface for days hence it being a great weed killer. 

3 main factors of hand gels that can cause issues to aquatic fauna are the vegetable glycerin, fragrances (oils) and the thickening agents.

The alcohol itself, whilst lotions are 70 to 80 percent ethanol (99.9% conc), this evaporates within minutes of skin contact but the glycerin and thickener are left behind leaving a slight coating on the skin which will leach into water along with any oils which are also harmful.
If hands are going to go into the aquarium I'd suggest rinsing under hot water before hand, or even better, by alcohol free hand rinse. Or make your own it's very easy


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## Dominik K (2 Sep 2021)

I was just talking about this with my missus last night. 
I just washed my hand with tap water. Didn't want to get any soap/ anti bacterial stuff into the tank in even trace amounts. 
(mind you the tank probably has cleaner water then what most people drink out of the tap)

When I was planting/ maintenance this weekend I did notice a lot of "stuff" floating around which Im pretty sure was dead skin off my arm...
Not sure how harmful that is but im considering investing in some arm gloves. Not sure how feasible that is with covid and PPE shortages though.


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## Wolf6 (2 Sep 2021)

ScapingScotsman said:


> Just to add onto this, as I work in the chemistry field, and most specifically hand gels, rinses disinfectants etc due to covid.
> 
> Firstly benzalkonium or BAC50 should not be in anything hand wash, hand rinse or hand gel related. Its lethal stuff.
> It's used in disinfectants at such a small amount due to its effectiveness in killing nasties and mostly in litchen and moss killers. It can soil any surface for days hence it being a great weed killer.
> ...


Will they be harmful at such small doses though? Say you wash your hands with soap, rinse with water afterwards, towel off, then enter the tank with them. You do this once a day, and every week you change 50% of the water. I mean, this is how I've been doing it since day one of corona, and I've lost only one fish (large siamese) since corona started, and to be fair I suspect he jumped the tank and the dog ate him as I've seen no trace of him. Then again he was 9 years old so old age might have gotten him too (and the shrimp could have taken the corpse apart before I could notice). I do make sure I dont feel any soapiness between my fingers etc though, and we tend to use eco soaps (not that I know how eco-friendly they actually are...).


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