# Alternatives to ADA Bacter 100 etc



## keano (6 Aug 2018)

So I did intend on using ADA's bacter 100, Tourmaline BC and super clear.

However I don't really fancy spending more on substrate additives than the ADA tank itself cost!

Does anyone have any experience with alternative products to promote bacteria growth and ultimately longevity of the substrate such as:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/JBL-ProSca..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=5PSTMBYNN5DXF7Z038NQ


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## Nigel95 (6 Aug 2018)

I think their substrate additives are a waste of money. Someone once talked to mr Amano and asked about this products. His reply was that it was some advice of his marketing team. Maybe the ada power sand will help for long term layouts. I just use cheap small lava chunks to save money on aquasoil as I want big slopes.

I tried bactosprint from Aquarium Munster as recommended by Dennis Wong. I don't know if it works, my cycle went really fast after adding it (in terms of ammonia and nitrite). But I also had a matured filter on that tank (so hard to say what it was really). I remember I once recommended this product on the forum and they told me it doesn't work. I am not sure who is right. Dennis Wong is definitely not a random guy with no experience. But I believe they provided scientific data that this kind of products do not work (on this forum).

He adviced bacto sprint to me because it was better available in Europe. He uses api quick start for his self. A quote from his site"
*Using bacteria products available on the market, such as API Quick Start work (surprisingly) well, allowing an almost instant start. *Bacteria products used to be touted largely as snake oil, but my tests on API's version of starter bacteria culture worked well - cycling an ammonia rich aquasoil tank in a few days. Some other brands on the market have not proven as effective though."

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/filter-tank-cycling.html


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## keano (6 Aug 2018)

I already have a very mature Fluval 406 for it and the flow through the substrate is completely marginal so the bio filtration of the substrate must also be minimal?...

I was more of the thinking I want this tank to last years before I have to break it down and promote growth as much as possible, if the additives are more marketted towards bio filtration i'm not as overly concerned i guess.

I'd be willing to give them a try but at 25 euros a tub each for the bacter 100 etc i believe it is incredibly over priced


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## dw1305 (6 Aug 2018)

Hi all,
Personally, just let the tank grow in. Plants roots will do all the work for you. 





Nigel95 said:


> A quote from his site "*Using bacteria products available on the market, such as API Quick Start work (surprisingly) well, allowing an almost instant start. *Bacteria products used to be touted largely as snake oil, but my tests on API's version of starter bacteria culture worked well - cycling an ammonia rich aquasoil tank in a few days. Some other brands on the market have not proven as effective though."


This comes up a lot on forums, have a look at <"Bacteria/biological starters"> it references a lot of the recent advances in identifying and quantifying micro-organisms in aquariums.

There is also Dr Stephan Tanners article on <"biofitration">, or this video, although he is talking about Mattenfilters, the same processes occur in the substrate.



There is also this by <"Dr Tim Hovanec">.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (6 Aug 2018)

I often wonder, would taking plant cuttings, drying them out then throwing them through a blender be any use if you were to put them under the substrate on startup?


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## alto (6 Aug 2018)

keano said:


> However I don't really fancy spending more on substrate additives than the ADA tank itself cost!


And this is why I’ve never gone with the ADA substrate additives - though I suspect some are worthwhile especially in long term set ups ... (I’m an avid re-scaper )

Recently, Jurijs mit JS has been adding Tropica Nutrition capsules - opened & scattered - to his substrate base
ie a thin layer soil, then scatter supplements, then top with bulk of substrate 
You might find his latest video interesting 

Any of the nutrient dense substrates from Tropica, Dennerle, sera etc likely will provide a similar long term “boost” to your substrate 
(I’ve used Tropica Growth Substarte, sera floredepot ... my tap water is very soft & basically devoid of even trace nutrients)

As Tim mentions, the useful substrate bacteria should develop over time - hmmmm is that what he said, regardless it’s how I read it  
I think the idea behind ADA Bacter is jumpstarting that process ... though I’ve not read any data that supports this, there were Japanese articles back in the Vectrapoint days that implied analyses were done during the development of all the ADA products (of that era) - there were certainly photos & graphs of suitable scientific aspect 

Note that ADA water column fertilization regime is “lean” - this combined with enriched substrate will promote root growth of plants


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## alto (6 Aug 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I often wonder, would taking plant cuttings, drying them out then throwing them through a blender be any use if you were to put them under the substrate on startup?


I suspect the plant roots would be more effective if it’s substrate (soil?) bacteria you’re after

Too much plant mulch, even after drying, could easily go anaerobic - I suspect 


I often read suggestions of just pull up the plant (slightly), cut to remove, leaving plant roots to degrade in the substrate, thereby providing nutrients 
- except back when I followed this method - for swords, crypts, vallineria - that had overgrown in my second tank set up (sera floredepot & some fine gravel that were then available in my local aquarium plant specialist shop) ... when I broke down the tank nearly 2 years later, many of those sturdy roots were still intact - I’d been intermittently cutting off crypt & vallineria shoots, so expected those to still be in decent shape, but the long gone sword roots were also still very much in evidence 

If you container garden, you can observe much the same phenomenon - a pot that has flourished, tends to almost replace soil with roots, it’s a fairly long wait for those roots to compost back ... best done in a separate composter rather than waiting about in the pot


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## AverageWhiteBloke (6 Aug 2018)

Maybe the roots take so long to break down because they're in fact the storage facility of the plant. It's the last chance saloon for the plant if you like so if the roots are in tact there's still a glimmer of hope of it starting to sprout again one day given half the chance?

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (7 Aug 2018)

Hi all,





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I often wonder, would taking plant cuttings, drying them out then throwing them through a blender be any use if you were to put them under the substrate on startup?





alto said:


> Too much plant mulch, even after drying, could easily go anaerobic - I suspect


I think @alto is probably right, and that the leaf material would give you a sudden flush of nutrients (leaves are sugar and chlorophyll (protein) rich), but not much in terms of slow release nutrients. This is when I find the <"BOD concept"> useful. 





alto said:


> Any of the nutrient dense substrates from Tropica, Dennerle, sera etc likely will provide a similar long term “boost” to your substrate


It would really be down to how slowly the release of the nutrients occurs. My suspicion is that you could control the temperature that you <"calcined a nutrient rich clay at"> to give a prolonged release of some nutrients, and there would be a trade of between the calcining temperature and the hardness of the substrate (higher temperature = harder and slower release).





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Maybe the roots take so long to break down because they're in fact the storage facility of the plant. It's the last chance saloon for the plant if you like so if the roots are in tact there's still a glimmer of hope of it starting to sprout again one day given half the chance?


Large roots have a decent supply of stored nutrients, so it will take them a long time to die. Some plants definitely have the ability to regrow from a "root", although often what we think of as roots (rhizomes) are actually modified shoots.

Because I don't tend to break down my tanks once they are set-up (or move the plants around etc.) I just need to a substrate that supports root growth, after that the natural processes will produce a diverse and resilient microbial environment, with varying REDOX and nutrient gradients as we move away from the root rhizosphere. 

I've tended to use 90% sand, 5% leaf mould and 5% clay, but my suspicion would be that it doesn't really matter where you start, eventually you will end up in the same place. 

I could be cynical and say that there is no money to be made by suggesting that "time" is the magic ingredient, because you can't package and sell it.

cheers Darrel


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