# first aquascape 30l nano



## Mrmikey (12 Apr 2010)

Hi everyone,

Heres my mini journal on my 30l nano tank which I started about a week and a bit a go. I though I'd post a journal as I'm a beginner at this as you will probably see from the pics

I would give myself a 5 out of 10 rating and that being generous! Feel free to rate it out of ten as well. Hopefully you guys will tell me where I have gone wrong and suggestions be made on how to make it look better. If it involves moving plants around or getting new ones Thats all good. 

*Equipment*
30l Nano cube
Dennerle co2 80g
Dennerle crystal set
3x11 w lights
Dennerle corner filter
heater

*Plants*

3x HC
1x dwarf hair grass
1x moss
1x Limnobium laevigatum
1x Pogostemon Helferi
1x nano petite (clipping that survived from old tank)
1x Anubias bart v. nana

*Decorations*
ADA Seiryu Stone
red moor wood
black gravel

*Substrate & fert *
substrate is Tetra 
liquid fert by Dennerle

*Fish*
3x kuhli loach
2x butterfly loach
4x Neon tetra
2x dwarf corries
1x guppie
4x crystal reds
2x big shrimp (dont know what to be honest)

Here was day 1 when I set up the tank with the hardscape. I thought it looked alright and was quite happy but it seemed to go down hill from here!






I let the tank cycle for a week and a half before adding the plants. Picture below is my attempt at planting. It was tricky and I messed up my nice black gravel!! gonna get some long tweezers and scissors I've seen on ebay.






Heres what I've noticed over a week and a half since planting: HC has lost is viberante green and now looks a like darker and in small areas is turning a bit yellow/brown. It may be algae? or it may be dying. But amazingly its growing!  

I added a peace of red moor on the surface to stop the libium whizzing round and blocking the light. Ive now tied it all in a bunch with some fishing wire. 






Im finding it difficult to take good pics! Is there a way of improving them without getting mad technical? I've got a canon 350d eos.


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## Nelson (12 Apr 2010)

thats a great looking tank   .wish my first attempt was that good.
well done   .


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## Mrmikey (12 Apr 2010)

Cheers mate much appreciated   

well, Heres the latest picture of my tank. As I mentioned in last post I'm starting to think I have trouble with my HC as its turning a slight yellow colour. Have a look I hope someone can help.


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## hydrophyte (12 Apr 2010)

That looks really nice. What a unique tank it is.


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## Steve Smith (12 Apr 2010)

I know how you feel about the HC.  I've never managed to grow it successfully   trying again at the moment though.  It looks like it's spreading for you at least


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## Garuf (13 Apr 2010)

try upping your co2 and Kno3 dosing, should help, HC is very hungry of both.


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## Mrmikey (13 Apr 2010)

Thanks for the help but I may need a little more. what is kno3? Is that seachem flourish excel? I only ask because it frequently appears in posts about this problem. Also if I use that will I need to add anything else. 
I have never used additional fertilizer in my tank and Reading about it is a bit hard to understand


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## Mrmikey (13 Apr 2010)

Well I was looking at my tank and thought it looked a little shabby so I moved a few plants around and added a couple of small pieces of rock. Hopefully the plant arrangement looks better....I think it does.  I also used a wire brush to get a bit of algue of the big rocks. I've also bought some liquid ferts in order to help my HC. They are FloraGro - essentail mineral blend and Flora24 - Daily replenisher of essential trace elements.


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## Garuf (13 Apr 2010)

Nope, excel is a brand name for liquid carbon. Try upping the dose of that, you're running a whole lot of light so upping the co2 will help no end. 

What are you dosing? 
Also, If you look in the useful abbreviations thread that will give you all the answers to the most common of the ones we use.


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## Mrmikey (13 Apr 2010)

Nice one Garuf, so you think I have too much light? I upped my co2 and the drop checker has got a little lighter in green. 

I only dose 1x drop of Flora 24 a day for last three, before that it was the liquid ferts that Dennerle included with the tank. So you recommend I get some excel liquid carbon as well or in place of....or both? 

thanks for the tread I'll check it out


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## Mrmikey (13 Apr 2010)

Another thing.... might sound stupid, when the HC pearls is that because of the oxygen being released by photosynthesis or is it tiny bubbles collecting from the co2 diffuser?


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## Garuf (13 Apr 2010)

It's oxygen being released, it is also possible that it's co2. 
Regarding your dosing I would want to be looking at EI, if you're doing from the bottle tropica would be a very good place to start, but that's not as cheap as EI. 

Regarding your light, I assume you have over 1w per litre, that's a whole lot of light, try reducing your light by 11w and see how that works for you after about 2-3weeks. Keep a close eye on your co2, watch your animals, keep upping it till you notice stress. 

My first steps would be to up your water changes, try 50% every 3 days, lower your light, keep your co2 high and lower your light, everything but your hc is very healthy looking so you're doing something right. Everything will fall into place. Have a good read of the EI threads and you'll know what your plants require you can work out from there.


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## Dan Crawford (14 Apr 2010)

Great advice Garuf


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## Mrmikey (14 Apr 2010)

Thanks grauf much appricated. 

I have put your plan into action by switching of one of the lights and slightly upping my co2. I knoticed the bubbles get bigger as they come out of the diffuser, is this waste or will it take effect and be absorbed by the water. I was changing water, about 30% every 4 days... I'll now do it every 3 and at 50%.

Still a bit unsure about the ferts could you send me the links for the ones you think I need. I don't mind paying a little more for tropica if it's better stuff. 

Thanks mike
Figures crossed it will do the trick.


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## Garuf (14 Apr 2010)

It's just the same, it's just that one you make your self and the other you buy all in one bottle ready to go. 
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211&start=0
Here's the EI thread, it's a lot to digest but the information is invaluable. 

Also, rather than just turn one light off, I would remove one light and move the other two so you have even coverage, just a hint.


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## Mrmikey (14 Apr 2010)

That makes sense so I've removed the dennerle light. Even though it's 11w as well it is by far the the brightest. So now I have 2x 11 w lights running one with a tropical bulb which is slighty pink and the other light has a daylight bulb in it. Is there much difference between the two. Only ask as I wanna get to matching bulbs.


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## ceg4048 (23 Apr 2010)

Mrmikey said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help but I may need a little more. what is kno3?..





			
				Mrmikey said:
			
		

> ..I would give myself a 5 out of 10 rating and that being generous! Feel free to rate it out of ten as well.


Hi,
    Yes, sorry, this entirely too generous. Five lashes with a wet noodle for not knowing that KNO3 is Potassium Nitrate. Please check this thread Setting up A higher tech planted tank

While you are in that Tutorial section of the forum it's well worth reading the other articles there.

As other poster have mentioned you have way too much light. This is like buying a Ferrari just after getting your drivers license. Immediately disable at least one of those bulbs, and I would even go so far as to suggest that you disable two of the three bulbs.

As discussed in many threads you may need to think about improving flow and getting it down to the substrate. This may require investing in a stronger filter or as many have done, using a supplementary pump such as a Koralia.

For such a small tank, and due to inexperience, it might be better to simply buy TPN+ which can be found here

Then you don't have to worry too much about the definitions of this or that (that's no excuse though- you need to keep reading and ask question if you don't understand something. Don't just do nothing just because something is unclear) Ironically, adding more CO2 without adding more fertilizer will hasten the demise of your HC due to Nitrogen failure.

Priority NUMERO UNO though is to disable those lights. They are killing you...

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (25 Apr 2010)

*Ceg*, Thanks for taking the time to get back to me buddy.

I've been doing a lot of reading and its slowly starting to make sense.That link you put me onto was wicked, very easy to understand and just from reading it, realized I've still got some way to go. 

Im gonna stick with it though and see if I can turn it around with help, it seems a cop-out if I just start again. Also, everyone would probably agree... this is a 10 out 10 tank so it would be a shame to deprive you all of my amazing scaping skills, incredible planting layouts and incredible photography... on par with National Geographic! who needs photoshop?

I've put the _Ceg_ recovery plan into action 

*short term*
I've turned off two of the lights as suggested, but was wondering if there is any benefit doing a 2 hour burst mid day using timers? Another thing, If my Limnobium laevigatum covers the whole surface would I need 2 bulbs then?

I got some stationery scissors and hacked back some of the algae infected HC and chucked some in the bin. The places where I've trimmed have started sending out sideways runners now... which is good. I ordered Flourish excel, iron and flourish in a pack of 3 before you mentioned the TPN+. I've only had it about 3 days but I think its making a difference already, somehow it just looks better.I hope I'm dosing right !! just to check I will Do water changes every three days 50%. my shrimp seem fine so far 

*long term:*
Get a better filter, I looked at that Koralia but thats an ugly thing to put in the tank. Im trying to get it looking minimal and slick. Whats the the best external filter for my tank? its gotta be small, v.quiet and if poss hold a heater. My tanks next to my bed and Its on a set of draws. If I need to get lily pipes and any other slick looking bits so be it...This tank is costing more than my rent anyway. Do I really need to achieve such strong circulation as x 10? my Dennerle corner filter does 150l/h. I realize it probably only does half that though.  

I will post a picture of my scape later, I added a bit more rock and have taken the wood with moss on out. Looked weird. So hopefully you'll agree that the hardscape is looking a bit better.


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## ceg4048 (26 Apr 2010)

Mrmikey said:
			
		

> *Ceg*, Thanks for taking the time to get back to me buddy.
> 
> I've been doing a lot of reading and its slowly starting to make sense.That link you put me onto was wicked, very easy to understand and just from reading it, realized I've still got some way to go.
> 
> Im gonna stick with it though and see if I can turn it around with help, it seems a cop-out if I just start again. Also, everyone would probably agree... this is a 10 out 10 tank so it would be a shame to deprive you all of my amazing scaping skills, incredible planting layouts and incredible photography... on par with National Geographic! who needs photoshop?


Good man. It's completely pointless starting over. You'll only learn by solving these problems, not by running away from them.




			
				Mrmikey said:
			
		

> I've turned off two of the lights as suggested, but was wondering if there is any benefit doing a 2 hour burst mid day using timers?


 NOOOOO!  Lighting is your problem. You can NOT solve a lighting problem by adding light.  



			
				Mrmikey said:
			
		

> Another thing, If my Limnobium laevigatum covers the whole surface would I need 2 bulbs then?


NOOO! If your Limnobium laevigatum coves the whole surface then take them out! 
The Matrix has you Neo. Knock...Knock. CO2 and nutrients grow plants. Only when you understand this at a fundamental level do you graduate to more bulbs, and bursts and whatever hair brained schemes The Matrix has in store for you.



			
				Mrmikey said:
			
		

> I ordered Flourish excel, iron and flourish in a pack of 3 before you mentioned the TPN+. I've only had it about 3 days but I think its making a difference already, somehow it just looks better.I hope I'm dosing right !! just to check I will Do water changes every three days 50%. my shrimp seem fine so far


 Flourish is just a Trace mix. It looks good now only because you've added something which is better than nothing. These trace mixes will not fix your NPK related algae though, so you'll ultimately need some product which contains Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium  (NPK). That's whay TPN+ is considered an "All-in-One."



			
				Mrmikey said:
			
		

> Get a better filter, I looked at that Koralia but thats an ugly thing to put in the tank. Im trying to get it looking minimal and slick. Whats the the best external filter for my tank? its gotta be small, v.quiet and if poss hold a heater. My tanks next to my bed and Its on a set of draws. If I need to get lily pipes and any other slick looking bits so be it...This tank is costing more than my rent anyway. Do I really need to achieve such strong circulation as x 10? my Dennerle corner filter does 150l/h. I realize it probably only does half that though.


The 10X rule is a rating rule. Filters only produce about half their rating and you need about 3X to 5X in real flow, so as long as you have a 10X rating then you already take into account the filter inefficiency. A 30L tank gets 300LPH of flow rating. End of story. 

Buy any external filter rated at 300LPH. Buy any well known name brand like Fluval, JBL, Eheim, Tetratec and so forth. I like Eheim, but that's just my choice. I don't like to get into useless Filter name brand wars, so get whatever brand strikes your fancy (obviously stay away from North Korean, Syrian or or other Taliban endorsed brand names, but otherwise you're spoilt for choice).

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (26 Apr 2010)

Thanks buddy, I will look into getting an external as long as its fairly small that is.

Well a little late but heres the latest photo. HC doesn't seem to be doing much, I will order some TPN+ next week maybe this will help the plants to grow a little better.

I have also taken out the guppy and neons.


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## Mrmikey (29 Apr 2010)

Since my last post four days ago nothing really has happened. I think the battle with the algae is working but lets give it another week with just one 11w light.  co2 has been increased with a bit of excel every other day. Tomorrow I get the TPN+ I think it will make a big difference as HC hasn't really grow since for about a week. I have also moved out my loaches as they were foraging around too much. When/If HC gets thicker i will put them back in. 

I've also ordered 1x pogostemon Helferi and 1x Heteranthera zosterifolia. I thought the back right corner looked naff so I want something bigger that will grow around the big rock and add a bit more high and depth. I may have to move the filter to the other side.


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## ceg4048 (30 Apr 2010)

Well I interpret that as being a lot that has happened. Your algae hasn't gotten worse - and it was on schedule to become lots worse, so you really have to consider this a relative victory. The only NPK the tank is getting is from the tap water and from organic waste, so the fact that things haven't gotten much worse is also a victory from that point of view as well.  The changes and adjustment you've implemented have halted the advance of the algae. That's a big deal mate. Try to keep things in perspective. 8) 

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (30 Apr 2010)

safe ceg,

You're right i should be looking at the the glass being half full not empty! All thanks to you. There is a little still lying around, Should I excel directly using a syringe? or should I trim it?  I've been using dental brushes to get the longest bits out... works pretty well 

Do you think my plant choice is cool? gonna keep it low-ish just to grow around the rock. Im gonna drop another photo on sunday night so anyone interested can follow my progress.


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## ceg4048 (30 Apr 2010)

Yeah, you can do a bit of spot dosing but dilute the Excel with water if you are spot dosing directly on plants. On hardscape you can use full strength.

Plant choice seem pretty good to me. Keeping it low up front gives a nice balance between greens and rocks. I also like that you used small leafed stems to match the tank size. I'm not really a floating plant kind of guy, but hey, if you like them then that's all that counts.  

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (4 May 2010)

Ok I will defiantly give that ago as all algae seems to have disappeared from the HC just the rocks left.

Im planing on giving it a bit of a clean tomorrow when hopefully my Heteranthera zosterifolia and TPN+ turn up. I'm putting it behind the big rock and maybe taking out all HM so it would just leave the hair grass on the other side.  The space this creates I want to put more pogostemon Helferi when there are more shoots. 

Nothing really else to report on. Everything seems to have finally settled down, drop checker yellow and no weird behavior from shrimp/fish so thats good. Water has been a little cloudy for last 3-4 days maybe that is something to do with the excel?


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## TBRO (4 May 2010)

Cool, just seen this sweet little tank. All tanks go through minor algae issues, good to see you cracked it with advice from the great and the good of UKAPs! I love the mini CO2 cylinder, looks really smart. Keep up the good work, Tom


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## ceg4048 (5 May 2010)

Yeah, looks pretty nice to me too. Forget about cloudiness for now. You're building Rome. It'll take more than a day to get rid of cloudiness. This is just The Aqueduct. Next comes the Coliseum and then The Pantheon. 

Remember, do as massive a water change as you can, 3X a week if possible for the next few weeks. Do NOT even think about adding more bulbs at this time. The punishment for that is to stand in the corner wearing a dunce cap.

Iis it just me or does that light remind you of a hydrogen bomb detonation? And you want to use three of those? Lets get real.  




Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (6 May 2010)

TBRO said:
			
		

> Cool, just seen this sweet little tank. All tanks go through minor algae issues, good to see you cracked it with advice from the great and the good of UKAPs! I love the mini CO2 cylinder, looks really smart. Keep up the good work, Tom



Cheers mate, not bad for Â£80 with glassware is it? made a massive difference to my plants they actually grow. Just checked your nano out i like it a lot... looks lush. Unfortunately I had a like problem when my new plants came, bit dissapionted to be honest, the Heteranthera zosterifolia is a little bigger than I would have liked. lack of experience I guess. My pogostemon Helferi is massive, the buds were massive about 3 times as big as my biggest ones so only used 1 bud to fill a gap.


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## Mrmikey (6 May 2010)

After getting the plants in the post today I took a bit of a radical act and up rooted the MC and hair grass and swopped them around. Then I went mad and took another risk by pulling the big rock forward to fit the Heteranthera in behind, just to give it a bit more space. I then decided to move the second biggest rock closer to the big rock to narrow the valley. In doing this most of the HC came up, gravel got moved, substrate got disturbed and water went mega cloudy looks like volcanic ash all over the place. All very sad. 

Anyway I replanted the HC and Hair grass  so looks like I'm back to square one on that. Its a shame I think its put me back a couple of weeks until the HC grows out again. I trimmed the HM in hope it will go bushy.

Anyway I will post a photo tomorrow!


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## Mrmikey (7 May 2010)

Here's my tank after the bomb was dropped! its cleared up nicely thanks to Luke my neighbor,he lent me his fluval filter from a tank he used to have.  what do you think of the plant back right is it a little big?


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## ceg4048 (7 May 2010)

Good one Mikey. 
Is that H. zosterifolia? If so I reckon it's inappropriate for this tank. It's a fast grower and will become a hooligan in no time flat, especially if CO2 is in good shape. Speaking of which - is that just the photo or is that dropchecker on the dark side?

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (7 May 2010)

Hi ceg yeah it is H.zosterifoila. The more i look at it The more It looks way to big. I think the corner definatly needs something but what? got any ideas on plants that would suit my tank? This plant wont go to waste ill put it in my 20l with no co2.

Ha don't worry about the drop checker I left it out over night, was yellow. What do you think of the hardscape? better? just need to get the balance right with the plants.


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## Garuf (7 May 2010)

I'd suggest Hemianthius micranthatmoides (that will be spelt wrong) for that corner. I told you you were doing something right, just keep it up and you'll be sailing.

I'd advice that you stop altering your scape for the time being, every time you move stones/substrate not only will you be releasing ammonia that was locked in the substrate but you're also changing flow patterns which can spell disaster for carpet plants. It sounds silly but I added a extra few rocks to my old tank and it changed the flow so that the hc I had wasn't getting as much Co2 as it liked, a week later it was mostly mush, I took the rocks back out upped the co2 and it bounced back.


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## Mrmikey (11 May 2010)

Thanks Garuf everything seems to be going ok. Growth in the HC isn't amazing but after the reshuffle it's starting to settle in. There is a bit of hair algae making a come back in the HC and a darker algae covering the leaves lower down. I'll try and do a close up shot so someone can give me some advice on that. Noting major YET!



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> 'd suggest Hemianthius micranthatmoides (that will be spelt wrong) for that corner. I told you you were doing something right, just keep it up and you'll be sailing.



I have put a bit behind the rock on the left. Its in a bad way but starting send out new green leaves which is good. Hopefully in time it will add good ballance and then I can put the cuttings behind big rock. 

I wont be doing anymore major rock moves I kinda like it at the mo. 

Ive started dosing TPN+ as it came in the post. I'm putting in 0.7 ml a day, excel 1ml every other day, 1ml of iron after a trim so about once a week. 

Heres a photo i took yesterday and the second one was a week ago today. looks better right?


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## ceg4048 (11 May 2010)

Yep, looking better all the time. TPN+ has iron so there is no need to buy a separate iron product. The Excel should be dose every day. Save money and have better results by ditching the iron product and using more Excel instead.

Cheers,


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## Mrmikey (11 May 2010)

Cheers Ceg I also like these money saving tips  Ok I ditch the iron and stick to excel & TPN+.  It should look alright in two weeks when the HC grows in. lets see what happens!


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## Dan Crawford (11 May 2010)

That looks really smart, well done


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## John Starkey (11 May 2010)

Now i do like that,if you stare at it long enough you could be in the welsh hill,
nice work,
regards,
john.


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## Mrmikey (11 May 2010)

Thanks John thanks Dan. Im going to take a side photo and add it as well just show you see the view I get from my desk.


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## Mrmikey (11 May 2010)

Heres a few more pics. Next thing to tackle...good photos.


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## Mrmikey (21 May 2010)

Things still going alright but its starting to look shabby. I cant seem to get the algae off the rocks for love nor money! The groves in the stone make it hard to get to and my wire brush cant cope.

As for plant grow, the HC doesnt seem to have grown at all, well its not sending runners anyway. 

The hairgrass is is starting to curl over and some of it is going brown at the tips.

What's happing here, the leaves are starting to brown at the ends and this plant was doing so well.





Im thinking I may need to up my ferts as plants have grown but am scared to poison my shrimp?


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## Mrmikey (2 Jun 2010)

The end has come!! time for something new.

I realized as I steeped the bank of gravel/substrate so high in the beginning over time it had slowly moved to the front. This resulted in about 2 and half inches of gravel at the front. Also Hc started to look scruffy so ive taken most of it out. (notice the roots were really long and heathly. I've saved most of it for my next venture).

Another problem is the position of tank... as summers come round more and more light (direct sun) has been in my tank. I have no blind you see. So Gonna get one as i figure its been getting sun from rise till about 8 am, so that with the lights on is about 12 hours a day.

I kindly got sent some riccia from Hogan, I said 'enough to carpet a few rocks,,,, he sent me enough to carpet the flat! Top Man!! This is now in my little dump tank 20l which I'm kinda liking,

The rocks in my 20l are the same used in the TGM  tank done by oliver knott. Has anyone seen a nano with this in I'd like to see what they did. Is it dry wood stone ? I dont know?

Anyway Im going to start a new scape probably this week, I would love some links to good nano's with the same tank dimension 30x30x35 cm for a bit of inspiration. 

help mucho appreciated, mike


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