# Breeding Amano's - Going for it I think!!



## REDSTEVEO (3 Jul 2012)

I have had about 15 adult Amano's in my Trigon 190l corner tank for ages. Every now and then I see about 5 or 6 pregnant females. Then a few weeks later the same females are eggless for a while and then it starts all over again.

So after researching the internet reading many forums including this one I have decided to go for it. I have set up a small 12 inch square tank in the garage, with lights heater (26 degrees) and a small air pump driven sponge filter. I used mature water from my other tank and have been adding salt (marine sea salt) The females have just become pregnant again. 

I have got some green water on the go to produce (infusoria / phytoplankton) Are they the same thing?

I have a few other questions if anyone can help I would appreciate it.

1. How long should I leave them before transferring to the small salt water tank?
2. How long does it take for the females to drop the eggs (berries) once they are in there?

I have a Hydrometer for measuring the specific gravity of the tank water can anyone tell me what 35ppt equivalent is on the SG scale? or what is the reading on a specific gravity meter for salinity to = 34 / 35 ppt? (1.025)?

Thanks,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (8 Jul 2012)

Hi Steve,
The unit PPT is the standard way of reporting seawater salinity, and it means "parts per thousand" defined as grams of solute divided by kilograms of solvent.

This is 1000 times larger than PPM "parts per million", which is defined as milligrams of solute divided by kilograms of solvent.

So, "35 ppt" means 35 grams of salt is dissolved in 1 liter of water==> 35g/Kg
Multiply this number by 1000 to get ppm because 35 grams of salt is the same as 35,000 mg of salt. Therefore 35 ppt = 35,000 ppm.

35ppt is the concentration of salt in the ocean, so this would be the target concentration for a marine tank.

I don't think there is an equation to convert but there are plenty of empirical measurements and charts to make it a very simple conversion. All the hard work has already been done for you.

The National Physical Labs Kaye & Laby Chart gives you some measurements of seawater density as a function of temperature and pressure.

The chart at the very top is the one for you. You can see that the columns are arranged by salinity in ppt, i.e. grams Kg-1. This is unbelievably convenient because your number happens to be 35, of which there is a dedicated column.

The density of materials is a function of temperature, so on the far left you can see that the rows are divided by degrees.C, 0, 5 10 and so forth. I guess you can just use the room temperature 25deg, the last row.

If you follow that row across to the 35 ppt column you'll see the number 23.34

So what to do with this number? Well you have to use a little bit of algebra to make any use of this number because as you can see in the column heading the units are not just a straight density (the symbol for density is the greek letter Rho - ?). The units are "?-1000" (Rho minus 1000).

So your algebraic equation becomes:
? - 1000 = 23.34
Solving the equation for ? is a doddle:==> ? = 1023.34

This means that the density of seawater which has a salt concentration of 35 ppt has a density of 1023.34 Kilograms per cubic meter at 25 degrees C.

The hydrometer measures specific gravity which is really just the ratio of the density (?) of your sample water to the density of pure fresh water. By definition the ? of fresh water is 1000 Kg per cubic meter at 4 degrees.C

On the chart you can see that there is a correction factor for the temperature. You have to add 0.03 to the values in the table. I'd just ignore this unless you needed accuracy out to five decimal places.

Anyway, the hydrometer reading you would want to see is ?(sample) / ? (H20) ==> 1023.34 / 1000 = 1.02334

If you wanted to use the temperature correction factor you would just add 0.03 to the 23.34 to get 23.37 so the target hydrometer reading would be 1.02337.

Anyway, perhaps you'd explain why marine water is necessary for the breeding of these shrimp? Let us know how this goes.

Hope this helps. 

Cheer,


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## san-ho-zay (8 Jul 2012)

I'm really interested in the results of this.

I'm wondering if you've salted the breeding tank too early though. My understanding is that the shrimp live in fresh water and the eggs hatch in those conditions, maybe verging on brackish. The baby shrimplets are carried into estuarine waters by the flow, where they develop in brackish to marine conditions. When they are big enough they move back upstream into fresh water again.

There's an account of success here:

http://www.shrimpnow.com/content.php/12 ... p-Breeding


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## REDSTEVEO (8 Jul 2012)

Thanks very much Clive, for the as ever in depth theory and explanation it has been a great help. 

Regarding the question of it being strange that a fresh water invert requires seawater to breed. This is what I have found out so far.

The Amano shrimp do not need seawater to breed. The females will become pregnant in fresh water and hold the eggs for about two weeks. If conditions are not perfect in terms of water and food supply they can either ingest and recycle them as food or they get dispersed and they don't survive. 

Dropping the pregnant (berried) females into water with a higher salt / mineral content and /or PH simulates what happens when the floods swell the rivers with minerals from rock structures which induces them to release the fry into the water. In our case, in captivity, once the fry have been released the females are removed and put back into their original water. The fry are reared in the water with a higher salt / mineral content and fed on infusoria - phytoplankton. The salinity of the water is gradually reduced over a few weeks until they are big enough to eat larger foods when they can be transferred back into fresh water.

I am just speculating but I think the salinity / mineral content is something to do with the development of the invertebrate shell. When the rivers flood the mineral content is altered which is the signal for the pregnant shrimp to release the eggs.

I know there are plenty of people out there with more experience than me who might be able to add to this. Interestingly enough I tried gradually adding small amounts of sea salt to another larger tank in the garage which had two pregnant females in. Tow days later there were lots of tiny white things bobbing up and down. Looking at them under a magnifying glass you can actually see the shape of the small shrimp.

Hope this helps. I will post some pictures as soon as I have some decent ones.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Richardblack5 (21 Sep 2012)

HI,

I am trying my first attempt at amano breeding and my zoes are already 12 days old.

 I have cobbled together a mixture of ideas found on the net and have fingers crossed that some will make it through to adulthood. 

I wanted to ask how successful you were with yours?

 I split my zoes into two 14lt tanks with marine water of different chemistry and fed each a random mixture of phytoplankton and Liquizell.

 I have stopped adding any more phytoplankton and Liquizell because my phytoplankton has multiplied and has turned the water so green that I can only see into the tank some 5 – 10 cm. 

I know I have zoes because when I shine a torch they all swim towards the light.

Any advice you can give would be welcome

Regards

Richard


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## REDSTEVEO (25 Sep 2012)

Hi,

Sorry it took so long to reply. Sods law applies here I'm afraid. No sooner had I set up my small shrimp rearing tank, the females stopped producing eggs which was strange. Nothing since the original post....except this week I noticed 3 large females all with eggs at different stages. I transferred all 3 to the hatching tank with salt water at 1.020 and temperature of 28 degrees. Last night one of the females dropped all her zoes, there are hundreds of them swimming about in there now and typically I have not got any food to feed them with.

I am thinking of shooting off to get some Liquifry and hope that will work for now. I have also got some spirulina powder which is about a year out of date so not sure whether to use that or not? :? 

Sadly one of the females got stuck between the glass and the plastic pipe from the sponge filter and she was dead this morning so I had to fish her out.

The other two seem to be still full of eggs so I am not sure if they are in there too early. Maybe if someone else is reading this they can offer some advice to us both.

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Steve


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## dw1305 (25 Sep 2012)

Hi all,


> I have also got some spirulina powder which is about a year out of date so not sure whether to use that or not?


 Definitely try it, Paprika and/or Gram flour might be worth trying as well

cheers Darrel


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Sep 2012)

Hi Darrel,

Is it okay to use the Spirulina powder even if it is a year out of date? Also any idea on quantities, dosage.

Thanks,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Sep 2012)

*Re: Breeding Amano's - Going for it I think!! Photos added!*

Day 3. I have just checked the Shrimp tank and all seems fine with the baby shrimp. I have added some spirulina powder and some Liquifry and hope for the best. Not sure if the small sponge filter will handle the nitrates and or Ammonia I will test the levels later. It is going to be difficult to do a water change without siphoning up a load of baby shrimp in the process  Any suggestions?

The two adult females are still full of eggs so I can only presume that the shrimp fry in there at the moment came from the other female that got stuck and died.

I have tried taking some photos of the small rearing tank and the other larger tank with the rest of my Amano shrimps in. As soon as the other two females have dropped their zoes I will return them to the larger tank.

Please forgive the poor quality of the photo close ups, they are a bit blurred but hopefully you can make out the shrimp fry 

The small tank with sponge filter, lights permanently on ,water 28 degrees, salinity 1.020










Can you see them?

















This is the larger tank with the rest of the adult Amano shrimp in.













Cheers,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (1 Oct 2012)

Baby shrimp are almost a week old, but don't appear to be getting any bigger   I bought some Phytoplankton off eBay and some copepod / infusoria stuff from Oasis Aquarium in Salford, but there does not seem to be any difference?

Any body any ideas?

Cheers,

Steve


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (1 Oct 2012)

See Richard's thread about the Same topic. I believe he is having great success thus far.


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## Richardblack5 (1 Oct 2012)

I read you should leave the light on 24/7.. I have done the same although admit this is my first time also. The Phyto you added should keep your water green for many days. How much Phyto did you add? Am now at day 22.


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## REDSTEVEO (1 Oct 2012)

I wasn't sure how much phytoplankton to add or how often. The instructions on the bottle said add 4 mil to 100 liters of water every couple of days. I added 4 mil on two successive days to the shrimp tank which only has about 20 liters total. Probably too much but I could not see any difference after the first lot so I added the second lot. :? 

I have done a 50% water change today and added some calcium and mineral salts, I also increased the salinity slightly. I am guessing that for the shrimp to grow bigger they have to moult and they won't do that if there are not enough minerals in the water.

Is 28 degrees high enough for the water temperature?

I am off to find Richards thread, if anyone can point it out I would appreciated it.

Keep the advice coming guys and I will share the results, successful or not.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Oct 2012)

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23504


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## REDSTEVEO (2 Oct 2012)

Thanks  

Read the topic. I am sure between Richard and I we should get there in the end.

I looked at the videos on YouTube....interesting...looks like a full time job  

I am going to register so that I can ask questions of the producers of the video and see what answers I come up with.

Keep you posted.

Steve


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (2 Oct 2012)

Good luck with it buddy.


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## REDSTEVEO (3 Oct 2012)

Thanks,

Because the zoes are 8 days old today and they don't look any bigger now than when they were first released I have today took a bold step, I have added 100 mls of Phytoplankton  

I have noticed that the temperature appears to be only 25 degrees and not 28 degrees as previously stated so I have upped it to 28/29.

The water has gone about 5 shades greener than it was before, so all I need to do now is wait and see over the next few days what happens.

I will keep you posted.

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (31 Oct 2012)

Just an update and an end to this thread really.

I finally found out why some LFS can charge up to £4.00 per Amano Shrimp. Over the last weekend I finally admitted defeat after finding that there were no more shrimp zoes in my small tank. If you add up the cost of the power to keep the tank heated, lit and filtered, plus buying the phytoplankton and the amount of time and effort put in to try and raise these shrimps, £4.00 a shrimp suddenly sounds like a bargain  

I stripped the tank down, cleaned everything out sterilised everything and packed it away. I thought raising discus fry was difficult but it is a doddle compared to raising Amano shrimp fry. I take my hat off to Richard who seems to have had more success, so from now on I will be following his thread with interest.

Maybe when I have retired and can devote more time to it I will have another crack at it but that's it for now.

Cheers.

Steve


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## Richardblack5 (31 Oct 2012)

Sorry your project did not work out.. I too have had problems... it’s like stabbing in the dark all the time with no point of reference. The threads on you tube show how easy it can be but I do not share their experiences.


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## REDSTEVEO (31 Oct 2012)

Yes I agree. How is it that all the other shrimp varieties seem to breed like mad and people finish up with hundreds of cherries and crystal reds, without all the palarva that we have had  

It must be some kind of conspiracy thing going on 8) 

Steve


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## jack-rythm (31 Oct 2012)

Why do u need heaters for shrimp? Or am I reading it wrong? Do amanos need higher temps than other shrimp? Shrimp excel in temperatures of around 18-21 which is usually room temp. Filters will also help heat the tank. Just a thought  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## REDSTEVEO (31 Oct 2012)

Not exactly sure mate, but my tank for the shrimp fry raising is located in the garage and it is pretty cold in there. Also I think the water for the phytoplankton has to be a certain temperature, but like Richard says we are still shooting in the dark.

Steve


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## jack-rythm (31 Oct 2012)

Ha yeah. I know what u mean. I'm pretty clues in with other freshwater shrimp but do remember heating that amanos are a little different. Food luck anyway Mate

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## LondonDragon (31 Oct 2012)

If it was that easy everyone would be doing it  for the 2 quid they cost doesn't seem worth the trouble, but its exciting when you achieve positive results  Also its always very unlikely that you will get 100% results with the first try, maybe worth doing 2/3 attempts at the same time with different parameters to see what works best.


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## Matt Warner (31 Oct 2012)

Sorry to hear your project hasn't gone to plan. At least you had a good try anyway. Hopefully you will have better luck next time


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## REDSTEVEO (1 Nov 2012)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> If it was that easy everyone would be doing it  for the 2 quid they cost doesn't seem worth the trouble, but its exciting when you achieve positive results  Also its always very unlikely that you will get 100% results with the first try, maybe worth doing 2/3 attempts at the same time with different parameters to see what works best.



Thanks,

The will is definitely there, its just finding the time to keep track of everything. I managed to get a few hundred zoes but no matter what I did they just never got any bigger. I tried minerals, calcium, salt increase, phytoplankton, rotifers,  live newly hatched brine shrimp but still zilch. It is a mystery  

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (1 Nov 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear your project hasn't gone to plan. At least you had a good try anyway. Hopefully you will have better luck next time



Hi Matty,

What PLAN?    There was no plan just hit and miss by trial and error, mostly error  

 :idea: Maybe they did not like the sterile tank, maybe what they needed was a gravel / stony bed with high movement of water around them similar to the river flowing hmmmm :idea:


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## Richardblack5 (1 Nov 2012)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> :idea: Maybe they did not like the sterile tank, maybe what they needed was a gravel / stony bed with high movement of water around them similar to the river flowing hmmmm :idea:




Would you look at that? Your post goes without comment until you quit, then everybody has something to say ha ha


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## REDSTEVEO (1 Nov 2012)

Yes I thought exactly the same. I would ask that this be the last post for now and that any further posts should be directed to your post  

Cheers Steve


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