# whats wrong? (pics inside)



## riggs111 (26 Mar 2011)

hey all! 
im adam and im new to this forum...been reccomended! looks a awsome site cant wait to have a good look about aswell!

anyway first off, i have a 64L tropical community fish tank and have a sand substrate and 2x15w daylight bulbs with are on from 3pm till 10:30pm daily.
about 3-4 weeks ago i decided i wanted to plant some nice background plants and a few small ones to add some colour and make the tank look nicer.the plants i added are as follows: moss balls, amazon swords, pygmy chain swords, dwarf hairgrass, valis torta, crypt wendtii and some bamboo sticks with moss on...planted them all iand and crushed up some flora tabs around the plants.
i started looking into dosing some ferst etc as i was reccomended but didnt really know what i needed to be honest so i just went for it and bought some easy life liquid carbo and easy life profito: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/eas...-p-2424.html?zenid=tp7b3d39uguotskoqn5d17ua25
i started dosing 1ml carbo a day (product guidlines) and 5ml a week (product guidlines) of profito.
recently my plants started going like this:










now ive been told 2 things that could be wrong....no.1 crypt melt or non aquatic leaves dying off
                                                                         no.2 nutrient deficency i was told i needed more phosphate and more nitrate as i was dosing any.......but i dunno what to think to be honest and was told you all are great so thought id post on here for some help!
hope all is ok!
look forward to the replies!
adam


----------



## riggs111 (27 Mar 2011)

anybody


----------



## Tom (27 Mar 2011)

Welcome 

Does the Profito contain N and P? If not, that's probably your problem and I'd look at dosing ferts that include these. 

Have a read here: http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

Dry Ferts: http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/9-jt-s-ei-salts

Dosage calculator: http://theplantedtank.co.uk/ > go to Dosing Methods > Dosing Calculator

You could try some KNO3, KH2PO4 and Trace mix and see how you get on. This mix should give you everything you need, and it will be far far cheaper than buying ready-mixed, branded ferts. Use the calculator above to work out the doses for your tank. You can then adjust it to suit if you need to.

Hope that's helpful and not too confusing!
Tom


----------



## ceg4048 (28 Mar 2011)

Hello,
         This is not a nutrient issue. This is a CO2 issue. Melting, browning, decaying, leaf distortion and any other structural faults are typically due to poor CO2. You therefore need to increase your Easycarbo dosing and you may also need to look at your flow/distribution.

Cheers,


----------



## riggs111 (28 Mar 2011)

hey guys...thanks for the replies....tom that EI seems interesting and the link is a really good read!! i want to start dosing the dry ferts...is it "salt"? but i dunno what i need to order and how much and what to use? if you could point me in the right direction that would be great?!!?? just slightly confused on what i would need and how much etc?? 

oh ceg4048 that awsome! sounds like you know exactly what the problem is! hopefully your right!!!  happy happy!! i hope your right!! i think my filter output is strong and circulates the water really well tbh, but i might be wrong im very much an amateur! thats why i came here to the pros! im dosing 1ml of easycarbo every day when the lights come on how much do you reccomend i dose ceg4048 

adam


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (28 Mar 2011)

From what I can remember EC is dosed at 1ml per 50 ltrs so you can easily add 2ml per day to that tank. Some people in here does 2/3 times the dosage so don't worry there.
This boards sponsors sell the dry ferts in whatever quantities you want. Other than the tabs I'm assuming you don't dose any other nutrients? You mention easy carbo, I may be picking you up wrong but EC is a source of carbon for the plants rather than a fertiliser as such.
The three basic fertilisers you will need are KNO3 aka Potassium nitrate, KH2PO4 aka Potassium phosphate and Some traces. I always use this http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/ for a quick reference point for dosing which keeps it simple. 

40-80 litre tank
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp traces

added 3x per week.

As Clive, aka ceg as already pointed out though dosing the EC and ferts at that level will only guarantee you have the right amount of nutrients and available carbon in the aquarium which you can now rule out of your problems.
You now need to make sure that they are being circulated around all the plants. Also they might be a bit of die off with plants that are only just planted but at least if you sort the ferts, co2 and circulation you've covered everything from your end.


----------



## riggs111 (29 Mar 2011)

ok guys thanks for the help that sounds good but a bit confusing haha 
from what i think is right i dose
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp traces
added 3x per week.? 

i got my TPN+ coming today so ill use that until i am out or i dont see any channges then ill change to the dry ferts

from fluidsensoronline i need the following:
potassium nitrate KN03
monopotassium phosphate KH2PO4
trace elements

is that right? or do i need more??
adam


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Mar 2011)

Sorry the James planted tank link should have took you to the EI Dosing page rather than the main, here's the UKAPS one as well http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

Read through the EI dosing to fully understand what and why dosing those amounts. In a nut shell though, if you had a very bright lit tank enriched with co2 and the plants were growing at their fastest rate those amounts of fertiliser added to your tank would mean you should never be short of nutrients. Hence estimate index or EI. Now your tank with it's lighting and dosed with Easy Carbo SHOULD NOT need that amount of ferts in theory but people dose at that as a fail safe method of being assured the plants are never starved of any of the required ferts. So your worry about ferts being the problem are now ruled out and you can move on to co2 and water movement.

Now most people like the safety net of this myself included and others will tailor it to their specific tank by monitoring the plants. This is generally done over three week periods to give the plants time to react to the change by gradually reducing the dosing of the salts (not the easy carbo*) 

Those amounts are correct, you might want to add magnesium sulphate if you live in a soft water area.


----------



## vauxhallmark (29 Mar 2011)

riggs111 said:
			
		

> i got my TPN+ coming today so ill use that until i am out or i dont see any channges then ill change to the dry ferts
> 
> adam



While you're using TPN+, I've found that 1ml per 20l of tank per day gives me good results. Can't remember if that's what they reccomend, but it's a good starting point. Using a dosing syringe (from the chemist, for giving babies medicine) is the easiest way for me. I dose liquid carbon at the same rate (1ml per 20l per day). Rinse out the syringe with tank water if you're using the same one for both products, to avoid cross contamination. 

All the best,

Mark


----------



## riggs111 (29 Mar 2011)

average white bloke thanks for the advice, ill think ill start dosing what they recomend on the site first and see how the plants get on with that then either lower it or dose more depending on what happens! should i keep my dose of EC at 2ml a day? when would i know to drop it or raise it i mean?

vauxhall mark thanks aswell. TPN+ reccomend 5 ml a week, should i go for 1ml every day? do i need to have a rest day? or should i dose 2ml a day? 

adam


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (30 Mar 2011)

> should i keep my dose of EC at 2ml a day? when would I know to drop it or raise it i mean?


Easy carbo should be dosed at the recommended dosage on the bottle unless you have dense planting, like I said many people in here will dose higher than recommended.

EC not only provides a source of carbon for the plants it also contains a biocide which kills off Algae so people will use it for different reasons. Normal levels for carbon or upping the dose to eliminate algae problems.

Just check if the instructions are 1ml per 50ltrs then 2ml per day (it has to be a day because the active ingredients only last twelve hours) should be fine. There should be no need really to go higher unless you see any problems that are carbon related in which case you will need to look at either upping the dose OR looking back at Clives post it may be distribution. If your adding the recommended amount and still have co2 related problems then distribution has definitely got to be a factor.

Word of warning! easy carbo is toxic to fish at certain levels, don't quote me on it but I think it's 3x the dose so it's not a simple case of just adding more. At 2ml your give or take dosing 1.5x you tank volume which should be ok with your lighting. Another pearl of wisdom I picked up from plant brain the other day was that tanks run on EC as oppose to CO2 don't need as much ferts because EC is not as effective as gas so coming down a bit on your EI dosing is also an option.

The cost factor comes into dosing, especially with large tanks, in your and my case I have 165 ltr it can be dosed full EI for pence a month so depends how much it bothers you in the end. That's why people use the dry salts, using commercial pre-mixed ferts means the end user (U & Me) ends up paying for mainly the bottle, the water and the shop window it came out of.


----------



## LondonDragon (30 Mar 2011)

I would say dose at least 2-3ml per day  its also worth buying TPN normal and alternate days between TPN and TPN+ they both have goodies that the other does not.


----------

