# New Decade, New Decadence...



## Geoffrey Rea

On to the next one...


----------



## CooKieS

following with interest...


----------



## UsAndThem

Can't wait to see what you come up with next Geoff. Dutchy perhaps ?


----------



## Jayefc1

Is it a new tank or is one coming down bro 

Cheers
J


----------



## Siege

Jayefc1 said:


> Is it a new tank or is one coming down bro
> 
> Cheers
> J



You may recall Geoff laughing at my lights, well what you reckon he may opt for? 

I can also a see a superjet filter going to the Geoffrey castle!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It’s all lies @Jayefc1 

All beautifully crafted and well engineered lies....


----------



## Siege

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s all lies @Jayefc1
> 
> All beautifully crafted and well engineered lies....




And the Super Jet is sooooo shiny!


----------



## Jayefc1

@Siege how did he ever keep a straight face whilst at work with you mate when he was always going to get the ultimate Christmas lights lol bet he goes for more than one too 

Cheers
J


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> All beautifully crafted and well engineered lies....


@Geoffrey Rea but it's not lies you should ring the bell of shame 
Shame shame shame


----------



## Siege

Watch this space I think. I know the hardware but he won’t tell me the hardscape plan......

Geoff is like a James Bond baddie!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> but it's not lies you should ring the bell of shame
> Shame shame shame


----------



## Jayefc1

Siege said:


> Geoff is like a James Bond baddie!


@Siege the Huntington Evil doctor no or yes well maybe ummmm


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Yeah the perfect villain @Jayefc1 ...

Dr. I Don’t Know


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Dr. I Don’t Know


@Geoffrey Rea hahaha the most uncertain villain.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

AS1200 in, level and ready to go.

Lighting next....


----------



## Siege

Guess what lights @Jayefc1


----------



## CooKieS

WoW!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Pro wise....

Two ADA Solar RGB’s and ADA hanging kits on their way.

Sticking with Eheim on filtration though, an old Pro 3e 600T and Pro 4 600.

Old Co2 Art reg from when they were still based in Milton Keynes. Has never let me down and great range on pressure.

Still searching for lily pipes that fit the bill though. Looking for consistency in blown glass i.e. one that creates a vortex that pulls on the surface reliably and the other possibly pointing down to provide higher flow lower in the setup. The latter would have inline Co2 fitted to it. Inlets, one stubby and the other full length. Currently looking at Cal Aqua Labs as a front runner.


----------



## Kalum

I've got one of the downward facing cal aqua labs lily's and very pleased with it, had it 2 years and still going strong


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Good to know @Kalum keep hearing good things so keen to give them a try this time around.


----------



## Deano3

Looking forward to this setup  would love such a large tank in future, looks great next to other tank.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Should be a nice little project @Deano3 

Usually shy away from matching stuff and unnecessary neatness, but everyone else in the house likes how the cabinets match the shelving now so guess that’s a win.


----------



## CooKieS

Deano3 said:


> Looking forward to this setup  would love such a large tank in future, looks great next to other tank.
> 
> Dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk



Me too, dream setup, can't wait to see the scape...any idea of the style yet?


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Should be a nice little project @Deano3
> 
> Usually shy away from matching stuff and unnecessary neatness, but everyone else in the house likes how the cabinets match the shelving now so guess that’s a win.


I am very OCD so would have to have matching  but looks great and yeah have you got many plans yet ?

Thanks dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It’s still undecided @CooKieS @Deano3 

Focusing on getting all the hardware together and installed for now.


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow bro looks amazing all the extra work is paying off 
Tut tut ADA after you took the Micky out @Siege 
For his expensive bright light smh 

Cheers 
J


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

I thought the clue might be in the thread title @Jayefc1 

*decadence
*
- the act or process of falling into an inferior condition or state

- moral degeneration or decay

- unrestrained or excessive self-indulgence

Even though I may have sold out to the ADA machine a little bit.... still a long way to go to beat @Siege in using an ADA solar RGB to light up an empty tank   

That guy really knows how to roll


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha the title never clicked bro at all lol when it really should have knowing how your mind works

As for lighting an empty tank that is just one of the 7 deadly sins taken to the limit @Siege he has been saying that it's going to be scaped for nearly 2 months now smh

Ps the 1200 looks amazing mate cant wait to see what magic you can create in such a beautiful space

Pps no pressure lol 

Cheers
J


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> As for lighting an empty tank that is just one of the 7 deadly sins taken to the limit @Siege he has been saying that it's going to be scaped for nearly 2 months now smh



He takes his zero maintenance, zero water change scapes very seriously @Jayefc1 Makes the ‘low maintenance’ YouTube posse look like rank amateurs!


----------



## Siege

Haha! Not quite zero maintenance, I had to dust it at Christmas!


----------



## Jayefc1

Then I bet it was the misses that dusted it talk about getting the other half involved lol


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Yah!


----------



## Jayefc1

Bet your well excited mate is Steve coming to help you hang them lol


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Gonna have to wait on the hanging part matey. Up to the eyeballs with work of late so been pulling all nighters. Will do it when functioning properly and not shaking from caffeine overload


----------



## Jayefc1

Oh a good caffeine overload gotta love them shakes bro just ask Steve to.pop round and knock them up for you wwe both know how good he is with that whirly thingy mabob


On second thoughts probs not lol
Although if it waited till Sunday the second of Feb could put them.up drink loads of beer have pizza and watch the superbowl

Yeah but look on the bright side the really bright side like the solar rgb bright side those all fighters are getting you the very best lighting so there really is a bright side lol


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> put them.up drink loads of beer



Good solid plan. May be in the other order though, just love the danger of it all


----------



## Jayefc1

What eat pizza watch the superbowl drink beer then put them up does the missus want a chandelier lol


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ah sod it, work can wait... Time for a frosty and to get out the drill. Putting them up @Jayefc1


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha I new you wouldnt be able to.wait dont blame.you


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Got 90% of the way there before having to crack on elsewhere.





Cables still need cutting to length with crimps pinched on the ends and shades need fitting. Will finish up later. Should look nice and tidy once complete.

Love the promise of a setup when it’s empty like this, mind can run wild with the possibilities


----------



## Wookii

Subbed! Looking forward to seeing what you have in mind for this one Geoff. No mention of another sump though?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

No sump this time @Wookii

It’s likely you’ll see two scapes out of this setup in the next twelve months.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

So peeps have been asking what’s destined for this 1200. First scape going in this tank will be a competition entry. However, it will be a friend who will be popping this tanks cherry. Her scaping talent only gets more impressive with every week that passes so gladly stepping aside on this one.

Already know @Delirious will create something immense and hope she’ll get the full support of the UKAPS community. Have to say I can’t remember the last time I was this excited about an upcoming scape, which is what the hobby is about when at its best. New blood inbound.


----------



## Delirious




----------



## Jayefc1

Well you really are a true gent and scholar @Geoffrey Rea it only takes one person to belive in something or someone to bring out there true greatness and I'm very sure @Delirious will smash it in such an amazing set up ( not literally smash it) good luck girl 

Cheers
J


----------



## Delirious

Jayefc1 said:


> Well you really are a true gent and scholar @Geoffrey Rea it only takes one person to belive in something or someone to bring out there true greatness and I'm very sure @Delirious will smash it in such an amazing set up ( not literally smash it) good luck girl
> 
> Cheers
> J



I dont think he'd let me scape the next one if i smash it xD it would be fun though!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Delirious said:


> I dont think he'd let me scape the next one if i smash it xD it would be fun though!


----------



## Delirious




----------



## Geoffrey Rea

There will be no tank smashing @Delirious !!


----------



## Jayefc1

Ummm no not fun at all an awful amount of glass to clean up lol 
J


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

@Jayefc1 managed to get through six years with two young children turning everything in the living room into deadly missiles, playing catch with hot wheels cars, indoor football, children’s parties - all without breaking anything or even a scratch!! There will be no smashing, no talk of smashing, not even any thoughts of smashing


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> it only takes one person to belive in something or someone to bring out there true greatness and I'm very sure @Delirious will smash it



Have been hoping to see more entries from the UK in the comp scene in the last few years. Grown tired of waiting for ‘somebody to do something about that’... turns out I am somebody that could do something about that.

I think a large part of it is other countries have communities of people dedicated to scaping who they can bounce off as equals. Example is Brazil’s rise to the world stage:

http://scapefu.com/brazils-ascension-to-the-aquascaping-world-stage/

The UK appears to suffer from more individualistic thinking generally (present company on UKAPS excluded) rather than communities and a leaning towards following/worshipping of big players/professionals. This community is a counter to this - just think of how much time and expert knowledge forum members freely share with one another. You can admire all the YouTube stars you like, but it’s the folks on here who take time out from their busy lives to explain and answer questions (one on one) to anyone who comes their way that gets my admiration.

It’s this break away from a popularity contest towards a mutual learning experience that’s inclusive and without hierarchy that could put 20 good entries into the IALPC, EAPLC and AGA from the UK.

I pay attention on this forum. I know others have thoughts/intentions of going for it. I say go for it and trust the wealth of knowledge and care that makes this forum a stand alone entity to support you. If there’s any doubts about whether what you have in mind will score, get familiar with what the judges are looking for to rid any doubt of what you’re doing. Example, IALPC scoring criteria:


----------



## Jayefc1

Well.maybe you need to take the plunge too I know you arnt into the comp seen personally but your talents are as good as any one the way you can grow plants and produce a picture amazes me just saying 
J


----------



## CooKieS

Sure,
Contest is fun and part of the hobby, you definitively got the skills for it.

And the coming back of the NA / planted style is good for us, european because asian ppl are generally better in diorama, so take your chance 

Anyway, you seems to be à really nice Guy for letting another scaper do his thing in your tank , very nice! Would love to scape an big tank like this...one day...


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Would love to scape an big tank like this...one day...



Careful what you wish for @CooKieS 
I suspect I’m not the only one who would very much like to see you do just that given your skills 

“Never put off until tomorrow the fun you can have today” ~ Aldous Huxley

I may start crowd funding just to see you unleashed on a 120 ASAP  

If it’s a case of the location the scape can fit, as with the above example, that problem can be overcome by finding a suitable location locally as well.



Jayefc1 said:


> Well.maybe you need to take the plunge



It’s a case of he who chases two rabbits catches neither. I’m better positioned in a supporting role which is the exact proposition in the previous post. Competition entries seem to require:

- aquascaping knowledge and skill
- habitat knowledge
- good time management and project planning
- understanding of biome health; key indicators of this and flexible course correction
- plant growth and behaviour knowledge
- excellent plant husbandry
- understanding of water parameters and how these relate to fertilisation management 
- photography knowledge and skill
- photoshop skill and operating within the remit of competition guidelines
- observation skills
- creativity with openness to other views and opinions 
- thorough understanding of judges criteria and predilections
- good dollop of luck

This isn’t even an exhaustive list. For one person as an individual to be proficient in all the above is a very unlikely scenario. Sure you get people who are supposed ‘naturals’ such as with photography or having ‘green thumbs’ with good instincts. I don’t deny that.

But as a community or a team though... got all levels of the above expertise covered. It just requires a change in attitude from thinking of individual success to pushing the strongest to the top. It’s this in my mind that’s been missing from previous attempts to get traction on an increase of competition entries. The fallout from being involved with such projects is a rapid and accelerated understanding of the hobby for everyone involved.

Admittedly, perhaps being a little mean, I’ve rolled my eyes at previous comments and impassioned speeches about how the UK needs better representation in the aquascaping world. It’s not even the UK, it’s the people you speak to on here everyday.

But you can’t solve a problem at the same level of thinking that created it. Perhaps it’s about taking a step away from individual effort towards collective efforts that will get things rolling. There is no lack of knowledge or resources here, better execution would push it to another level.

How crappy would it be if someone out there had a winning scape sat in their front room but isn’t putting it forward because they haven’t got the photography knowledge. Could you help? Would you help?

Goal: 20 entries that are representative of this community’s ability


----------



## Tim Harrison

Very inspirational Geoffrey, you've given me some pause for thought...


----------



## Siege

Sounds cool @Geoffrey Rea your scaping and @Delirious design skills will look good.

text me when @Delirious has forgotten her super sticky gloves and drops a rock in your new shiny glass!

I’ve got some nice black hardscape silicone glue that’ll fix the crack. Second thoughts you won’t need it as you’ll have soooo muuuuch of it all over the place anyway 

Ps. Ignore all these Super high tech photographing. I’ll pop round with my iPhone 5S! 


Ps. IAPLC 2019 books are now in at AG if you want some inspiration.


----------



## Gill

Guys If I can Enter and Place with a Lightbulb Sized Scape. There is Chance for Everyone.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @Gill but scaping, planting and maintenance will be @Delirious solo. I’m just the lackey who will be holding the tray of plants and cracking inappropriate jokes one per minute.

As before, this will be a smash free zone... no smashing, no talk of smashing, not even mental imagery of a mere chip in the glass @Siege 

Saying that did recently get forwarded the Green Aqua vid where Balazs drops a boulder at 6:00 in on the UG iwagumi tank setup video:



OMG that ‘DONG’ sound as it hits makes the whole body cringe for those who know  

As for your faith in said project good Sir @Siege I beseech you to remember my utter intolerance for inaccuracy - the rod shall not be spared lest the child learn nothing  The extendable dennerle net shall be deployed.

I also hasten to remind you of the last project which was labelled “insane”, “doomed to be an algae farm”, “walking the line between brilliance and utter failure”....

I’ll just leave this here:





  

Anubias petite directly under 200-300 PAR and thriving... now there’s a mystery for a supposed low light loving plant 

#KeepingTheFaith


----------



## Jayefc1

#KeepingTheFaith

Nuff said lol

As for your supporting roll 
I'd have you in my corner anyday she is a lucky lady 
J


----------



## Siege

Does @Delirious know she is doing the maintenance?

I can see it now, Geoffers junior maintains the 600. Arian doing the 1200. You sitting there beer in one hand dennerle extendable net in the other pointing with the occasional whack. When they’ve done they’ll both clap you to show how well you’ve done! 

you’ll be setting up your own brand of luxury aquarium scaping goods next! This time next year Rodders......!


----------



## Delirious




----------



## Onoma1

Looking forward to seeing the scape. @Delirious produced an amazing first one.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Onoma1 said:


> Looking forward to seeing the scape. @Delirious produced an amazing first one.



Will be great and hopefully fun creating it. Expect nothing less. Things have moved on some since that first scape. Can’t beat a fast learner.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Shady...





Finally got around to putting the shades on the lights. At this rate of progress we should be good to go by 2025


----------



## CooKieS

Nice!


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Can I ask why your not going for a sump this time? Did you not like it enough compared to canisters?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

@DeepMetropolis will probably be moving the sump system across to the 1200. Albeit with a larger sump tank to handle the additional water volume, but still using the wet dry filter box and overflow unit.


----------



## Siege

Do you have to drill the tank to do that?

I’ll put a new tank on order for you.......!


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Good to know that your still happy with it as I'm also about to go the sump route.. Do you run alot more co2 instead of a cannister setup?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Do you run alot more co2 instead of a cannister setup?



Depends on how good your design is. Put a 6KG bottle on the AS600 end of August last year. Still running on the same bottle now in March and still high pressure from the cylinder. Tank is 100l plus 15l-20l for sump and overflow box running 30-50ppm of dissolved Co2. Depending on the design of your return system, you can dissolve a lot of co2 before it hits the outflow by deliberately designing in turbulence - with 90 degree bends and placing your diffuser in front of the return pump so the co2 mist gets churned up. Increases efficiency without resorting to a reactor.

The level of dissolved Co2 being preserved is equal to the efficiency of your design. What I’ve published in taking-a-sump-back-in-five-minutes is a fairly fool proof design that allows for a high level of efficiency. Nothing fancy though... a £5 box with a lid from a DIY shop and an old Dennerke 55l tank and glass lid repurposed. Was meant to be a replicable blueprint for anyone who fancies a go.

Surface is skimmed, but the only major drop the water takes is into the filter box (which is well sealed) and when it trickles over the media underneath it (also well sealed compartment). Means most of what is gassed off in these chambers gets dissolved back in on balance. But having your media suspended in air with water trickling over gives a great o2 advantage for bacteria populating the media as well. So a thought out design that incorporates this attribute, without loss of co2, is worth the design effort for those that want that.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Change of plan. Empty 1200 has temporarily been repurposed as a propagator:





Tomato, cucumber, courgette and pepper propagation for those without a greenhouse.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Change of plan. Empty 1200 has temporarily been repurposed as a propagator:
> 
> View attachment 132470
> 
> Tomato, cucumber, courgette and pepper propagation for those without a greenhouse.



Is this your COVID-19 isolation survival plan Geoff?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Grow some veg every year @Wookii and being the weirdo that I am I’ve grown veg under all sorts of fixtures in empty spare tanks  Used to grow tomato plants in the cupboard in the middle of winter when we lived in a flat just to try it.

It really is ideal... 22-23C constant, strong LED lighting, easy to control soil moisture. Hardly anything fails to germinate and if things are growing too fast before the weather becomes ideal to plant outside, reduce the lighting period - slow the growth until its time.

This year though yes, COVID-19 has presented much uncertainty. It’s a mixed income area where I live so the spare plants will be handed to my nearest neighbours should getting out become a bit tougher for some of them. I’ve enough salts to keep their plants growing for the season or will chuck them some tomorite from the shed.

Anyone who’s grown courgettes knows that one plant is enough to ensure you never want to see a courgette ever again after the summer 

Supply chain on a local level.


----------



## Jayefc1

That is one expensive green house bro


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Anyone who’s grown courgettes knows that one plant is enough to ensure you never want to see a courgette ever again after the summer


 Yes that's for sure we once had 8 plants in the garden.. And if you pick them a day to late it's gourgettes for giants..


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It was more expensive sat there empty @Jayefc1 

It will get scaped this summer (with aquatic plants).


----------



## Siege

Nice. I’m on the bread line so can you pop round some tomatoes and a bit of basil when you get chance. Hold the courgettes, not too keen on them!


----------



## Siege

Just looked at your photo again. I’ve seen those sprayers somewhere before......!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Shhh....  You saw nothing!!!

Nice @Siege may be getting a sourdough culture going again soon if you fancy a different loaf occasionally.

As for the tom’s and peppers depending on the yield I may be getting some sauces and salsa going too. Tank may be used for salad, rocket and herbs once I can shift this first round outdoors as well.


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It will get scaped this summer (with aquatic plants


Dont know I quiet like your new style not sure it meet the judging requirements for the comps though


----------



## Siege

Nice @Siege may be getting a sourdough culture going again soon if you fancy a different loaf occasionally.

As for the tom’s and peppers depending on the yield I may be getting some sauces and salsa going too. Tank may be used for salad, rocket and herbs once I can shift this first round outdoors as well.

————————————————————-

Nice, I’ll be up for some of that


----------



## Siege

Jayefc1 said:


> Dont know I quiet like your new style not sure it meet the judging requirements for the comps though



yes, soil looking a little flat I think, it’ll taste nice though!


----------



## alto

Geoffrey Rea said:


> may be getting a sourdough culture going again soon


I’d you can get this from wild yeasts, send some my way (it will be worth the postage!)


----------



## Siege

alto said:


> I’d you can get this from wild yeasts, send some my way (it will be worth the postage!)



I’m not eating anything based on something that Geoffers should really have shown to a clinic!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Meanwhile down on the Rea Farm phase two is underway...






Strawberries, rocket and lettuce added.


----------



## CooKieS

Deluxe farm!


----------



## Jayefc1

Good night John boy


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha phase 2 of planting


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Used to grow tomato plants in the cupboard in the middle of winter when we lived in a flat just to try it.


Are you sure they were Tomato plants?

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

dw1305 said:


> Are you sure they were Tomato plants?



So so sure Darrel... the police thermal imaging from the helicopter only picked up the ‘tomato farm’ in the loft 

Meanwhile... phase three on the Rea Farm we’re adding raised beds on top of the veg trug that’s half full with used aquarium soil.





Untreated pre-fab raised beds but cheap and will last a season or two. Also picked up a load of 99p buckets which can have drainage holes drilled in to serve as pots for spare plants to pass on to the neighbours.

Turning this place into a respectable farm; strawberries, three varieties of tomato, onions, garlic, courgettes, two varieties of pepper, chives, parsley, basil, cucumber, lettuce and rocket.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Episode four on The Rea Farm...


Garlic:





Onions:





And Strawberries:





Frost on the way but should be fine. Lots more to go once the weather gets warmer, but should be in excess of 100ft2 of farmable area available for growing. Just need to keep everything propagating in the AS1200 in the meantime.


----------



## Siege

Hurry up Geoff. I’m starving.

I’ll have one of your strawberries and pretend I’m watching Wimbledon!

My stepdad used to grow the best strawberries and he’d never say why they were so good. I found out one day that he grew them in pure manure. Sounded disgusting at the time but they were really good!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Siege said:


> I found out one day that he grew them in pure manure!



High yield and rapid growth that way. I remove 25% of the soil and put in manure early winter to rot down for spring for strawberry patches. Only grow strawberry plants on for two seasons (compost thereafter as third season on they aren’t so good) and you can smell those suckers from a mile off they’re that sweet. Usually turn most of the harvest into jam.

Growing three rounds of strawberries this year staggered with 18 plants per round. Normally grow Cambridge Favourites but gone with two other varieties this year.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Life...


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Back down on the Rea Farm... There’s only so much ‘PE with Joe’ YouTube lessons you can do with your kids before you start feeling your age  More brain exercise, less physical torture today...

So as this lock in continues have been seeing what principles from aquatic plant care apply to horticulture. Charles Dowding’s advocation of the ‘no dig’ method makes a lot of sense to a certain extent, at least to me. Particularly interested in the comparison of the strata you can view in aquarium soil as the months pass by, various zones become ideal for bacterium of countless varieties, and that of the soil in the vegetable beds being left to settle in the same manner - effectively no digging/tilling the soil between crop.

The taller beds have had a deep vertical channel dug beneath them before being setup. This top soil, broken up clay where the rose bush/pontentilla bush rooted downwards and the compacted clay down to the hardcore from the building site rubble, has been lifted out and redistributed throughout the compost. I suppose the idea is to seed the beds with whatever survives from the upheaval and let it settle for a month before planting. I won’t disturb it beyond this for at least five years now.

The veg trug over the last five years has been run this way, only adding manure to the surface in late autumn to rot down over winter, but never disturbing the soil. With successive years it’s become less prone to weeds and yield has been great. Managed to negate disease/pathogens ruining crop, but this may just be luck and a suspended bed is not the same as a raised bed as a caveat.









Watering these taller beds will be done a foot down. I’ll be multi-cropping these beds to a) get the most out of them and b) to provide weed suppression. Also deeper watering extends the number of species that can be implemented in the beds. For example, one bed will have tomato plants central, basil near the root system of the toms and onions around the perimeter. The top 6” of dryer soil will be ideal for the basil and onions whilst catering to the consistent watering needed for the toms.









Beyond that just getting ready to plant out mixed lettuce under cover next week as the night time temps become more forgiving.










The hope is to get the AS1200 back after all this propagation and scape that sucker in the summer. Then we can use all that water from rampant water changes in the first month to water the crops.


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow its looks brilliant mate 

Gotta love PE with Joe though my thighs are killing and ollie is like again daddy


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Wow its looks brilliant mate
> 
> Gotta love PE with Joe though my thighs are killing and ollie is like again daddy



Bulk of the tomato and pepper farm going out the front Jay, room for 20 planters before annoying the wife sufficiently enough to be murdered in my sleep.  Back garden gonna be a mixed bag.

As for Joe.... kids same here mate, back to back sessions


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

On today’s episode of ‘Down on the Rea Farm’...

Lettuce trials... three beds, one winner:





Bed on the above left had a multipurpose fertiliser added a few days before transferring the plants out. Bed on the above right has had nothing added. Bed below has had potassium phosphate added along the channels to encourage quicker root growth but nothing else:





Garlic, onions and cherry toms are off as well with warmer nights looking set to stay from now on:

















There’s also onions planted around the perimeter of the tomato beds, just starting to get there now and ready to breach the surface.

On to phase two of propagation:





Larger toms for the front garden, broccoli, carrots, leeks, spring onions, swede, peppers and courgettes.

This has turned into a very fun project for the kids whilst we’re all cooped up inside. For the older one he’s having to make decisions across time about what to eat and when it will be available; not a small point in my mind when we live in a world that denies seasonal fruit and veg due to supermarket abundance year round. For the little’un feeding the compost bin is about as far as it goes for him but it’s entertaining if nothing else


----------



## Jayefc1

This all looks like such good fun nothing like producing your own crops mate


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It was either this or brew beer @Jayefc1 

Not sure being roaring drunk through the entire lockdown was the right decision for the family so chose the former rather than the latter  Time will tell though.

Besides... need the Co2 for the tanks rather than for the brews.


----------



## Jayefc1

That was always an option mate buy I think.you choose the right one lol


----------



## Onoma1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It was either this or brew beer @Jayefc1
> .



Just finished a strawberry tower and  'kegged' the first barrel of home brew ...the delights of having university students home in comparison with younger ones! I am still in awe of your raised beds!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Onoma1 said:


> Just finished a strawberry tower and 'kegged' the first barrel of home brew



Love it @Onoma1 and the flip side of being at home is you can keep an eye on things. Cheers to you!




Onoma1 said:


> I am still in awe of your raised beds!



They’re just cheap pallet collars. Not quite middle class enough to fork out on railway sleepers and the collars do the job and have no treatments on them. For the last five years the garden has been basic because kids will unfortunately trample/hit/fall on/run over anything you plant. Also their friends come around frequently for play dates so place is like a school some days  Older now so they’re a bit more reliably thoughtful.

We did have a few bushes and climbers but a new landlord took over a property to rent behind us. Decided to shower the walkway behind our house with Round Up to impress potential tenants with the remarkably weed free path that grants access to the rear of his rentable abode - to the extent it sterilised the beds and murdered our roses along with all the bushes/climbers through the roots tail end of last summer. Strong words were given and all’s forgiven. Besides, gave a fresh start this year so sometimes an agent of change is needed for something better to happen. There’s plenty more to come yet.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Veg underway and propagation done...









Tank watertight...





Manzanita at the ready...


----------



## CooKieS

What an amazing setup (tank and garden)!


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow you are going to scape it at last stop teasing I bet that Manzi is already in there


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Gonna be a salvage planted tank this one. Will be leaving the lights off for a bit and just performing water changes until all the plants are ready to go in together. 

The 10l shrimp tank has the tiniest bits of rhizome of bolbitis, some bucephalandra, anubias and water sprite. There’s a selection of crypts and some fissidens moss in there too for the taking. The AS600 has just had a trim but that thing over grows in the space of two weeks so won’t be waiting long. Mixture of background stems to be had from that tank.

Glassware has become nigh impossible to source at the moment. So it’s spraybar running the length of the tank with a skimmer shooting flow under the flow of the spraybar. Have to say, despite the look it’s by far the best distribution pattern I’ve personally seen.

Overall this setup is to showcase the Green Neons that are currently in the AS600. Will move them on in eventually. There are plenty of caves, overhangs and opportunities to plant epiphytes and moss that should bring out the best of their behaviour.

Planting out and foreground next...


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> What an amazing setup (tank and garden)!



Cheers @CooKieS only have a small garden but getting stuck in this summer. Just need a season or two for the perennials to grow in. In the meantime... veg!


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Planting out and foreground next...


Is there sand/gravel going in front of the stone or do you have something different planned?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Sand and some crushed Frodo stone is the plan  @Andrew Butler probably with mosses attached here and there.

I was considering a carpet but to be honest it will ruin  the fun. Would much rather use that maintenance time creating more detail on the scape than mowing more carpet. 

Also, could tell the batch of soil I had was going to float last night so left the sand for now. Don’t know what it is but you can tell by the colour. Sure enough... floating soil when filling up. Goes everywhere if you don’t pat the air off it quickly


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Sand and some crushed Frodo stone is the plan


I thought it likely would be but know you like 'something different' - almost a bit plain for you!
What sand are you going with? - I'm trying to work out quite how La Plata will work in an open area for an everyday tank and not one a display or showroom type scenario.

Hmmm............Amano + Soil + Sand =


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Andrew Butler said:


> I thought it likely would be but know you like 'something different' - almost a bit plain for you!



Only two criteria were maintenance had to be easy as possible (mainly access) and enough regions to grow different species in different ways. Reckon I can honour the scape through the planting though. Pressure is on now that it’s lit by Solar RGB’s.

Seen enough scapes to know that the hardscape can look immense only for the result once planted to be a let down.... Shadows, inappropriate positioning etc. Haven’t banked the soil up as well aware of what the long term issues will be and honestly need the love for this hobby reviving. It’s interesting having the restrictions we have recently because of how few species of plant are available. Never really tried growing MC on hardscape for example so will give that a go and see how it looks.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

10l cube crammed with some of the old plants from the four foot dismantled end of December:





Amazing how much life you can support in such a small space. Anyway, with everything stripped out this translated to:





Not a bad start. Four species of crypts, couple of sections of bolbitis heudelotii, a nymphaea lotus bulb, few species of buce, anubias petite and a big bouquet of water sprite to help with start up. Ignore the hang on back filter on the right, temporary bag of purigen and seeded sponge in there, will remove later.





The AS600 has been heavily trimmed back so not able to poach much yet. Have taken some bacopa, hottania and ludwigia super red though. Still the back section to fill up with stems, then MC and fissidens moss on the rocks and can have a look see at how it’s coming together. Leaving the sand and foreground detail for a later date, as draining and refilling during water changes these first few weeks is a lot easy without sand blowing about.


----------



## Jayefc1

It's a good start mate I like the no cosmetic approach it does get in the way when doing frequent water changes and not as much need to replace when tank has matured a bit


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Really tempting the devil with this start up @Jayefc1 

Low plant mass, rich Amazonia soil....  Debated whether the additional surface area of the sand would help the maturation period but as ever with Amazonia the stuff just keeps leaching ammonia. Easy water changes wins the day on this one until everything finds its equilibrium. Hopefully stuffing a load of fast growing stems in soon might help but it’s still low plant mass proportionately to the size of tank.


----------



## Jayefc1

Very low plant mass really but the water changes should help a lot and the easier they are the quicker they are and a lot less stressful the lights will be the issue I think they are so strong


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

And we’re off...













Huge thank you to @Siege for helping out with a massive plant donation from his AS600. Can’t thank you enough mate.

Will switch to clear hoses and glassware at a later date.


----------



## Conort2

Looks great!  what’s the stocking going to be for this one? Got a fair amount of space to play with.

Cheers

Conor


----------



## SRP3006

Love the hardscape, very natural, new tank looks amazing. Watching this one with lots of interest. 

Are you running one filter or two? Can't quite make it out.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Conort2 said:


> Looks great!  what’s the stocking going to be for this one? Got a fair amount of space to play with.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Conor



Got 60 Green Neon Tetras @Conort2 so the tank is solely for them. Trying to leave enough overhangs to hide under that they’re happy to hang out in full view along the front. That’s the plan at least. Once the stems grow full height they’ll probably hide at the back 




SRP3006 said:


> Love the hardscape, very natural, new tank looks amazing. Watching this one with lots of interest.
> 
> Are you running one filter or two? Can't quite make it out.



Cheers @SRP3006

Just the one filter but we’ll see how it goes. The spraybar running the length of the tank gives a good even flow, without misting the hardscape with Co2 in a concentrated way.


----------



## Conort2

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Got 60 Green Neon Tetras @Conort2 so the tank is solely for them. Trying to leave enough overhangs to hide under that they’re happy to hang out in full view along the front. That’s the plan at least. Once the stems grow full height they’ll probably hide at the back
> 
> Ha more than likely! sounds like a good plan. Will look great with them. Could always add botanicals too to make them feel more at home. Not sure how the tannins would effect the light levels though in a high tech tank.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Conor
> 
> 
> Cheers @SRP3006
> 
> Just the one filter but we’ll see how it goes. The spraybar running the length of the tank gives a good even flow, without misting the hardscape with Co2 in a concentrated way.


----------



## alto

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Once the stems grow full height they’ll probably hide at the back


Only when they hear you coming 

(go ahead you know you want to ...
...
....
......
Felix Smart Secret Agent Cam  )


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Glassware in, second filter installed and water has gone clear on day seven. All heading in the right direction.






The  front lily is a downward facing CalAqua that will push the Co2 down and away from the main scape. Dwell time is good.

On the right is a new glass set that @Aquarium Gardens is playing with. It’s halfway between a jet and a lily, gives plenty of surface agitation and long reach with really good flow so distribution is great. The design looks different from a standard lily, smaller and on a longer tank it seems to be a good fit to get water right across the length of the scape.










The inlets are nice also and the set easily accepts a cleaning brush through it for maintenance.


----------



## Jayefc1

Love that frodo stone mate looks amazing yank looks really.clean and fresh now guess you needed the second filter think we both new you would in that size tank how long does it take to do a water change on it ?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Thanks @Jayefc1 and getting fond of this one. Has some really nice aspects to it as you move around which don’t really translate to a single photo.

It actually cleared up with the one filter and the spraybar arrangement. The single filter setup was an Eheim Pro3e 600T running around max though and that thing gives really great turnover - love it.

With lily pipes on though definitely vote two filters to get good distribution around the tank and can run both filters turned down a bit. Also offers some flexibility and redundancy should anything fail.

I know the MC and riccardia is overgrown and will trim it short once it’s attached and settled in. Plan is to put some Pinnatifida high up on the wood and let some grow out of the water once everything else is grown in, don’t want anything shadowed this early on.

Hope you’re well mate.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Water change wise @Jayefc1  draining with a wide diameter hose takes no time at all, few minutes. Refill off the mixer tap direct to the tank using a skinny hose and sprinkler head which is slow but effortless. The large open area front right corner was left clear so it can be refilled from this corner without making a mess. Will fill using a pump from a 220l barrel in the future. Very fast refills then and a bit safer than leaving a hose running with the kids and their antics.


----------



## Jayefc1

Did you just glue the riccardia and mc to them rocks around the front areas 
Kids and hoses dont mix lol 
What filters are you running now mate?
We are all well going a little stir crazy dont look like il be back at work any time soon though 
Hooe you and the family are all good


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Carefully tucked under with a light brushing of Green Gain @Jayefc1 . Out of superglue so had to do, trusting it will get gripped soon enough, but if not they’re on individual pebbles so can always go another round. No trouble so far.

As before, running an Eheim Pro 3e 600T which was pricey but has never skipped a beat. Running the Co2 out of this one with the downward facing CalAqua lily along the front glass to avoid misting the hardscape.

The other is the newer Eheim Pro 4 600 which has been a mixed bag. Cassette eject button has failed twice jamming but has good turnover. Installed double taps on this one to avoid having to bother with its eject system. Inferior plastics to the older models in my opinion, priced to compete.

With a barrel pre-filled the night before, a refill with a 3000lph pump in the morning takes minutes. Leaving a hose refilling with these two running around is asking for trouble.

Feel your pain on the work front mate, also out of action. But on the plus side loving your scapes, really great to see what you can do with more time to play bud


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> But on the plus side loving your scapes, really great to see what you can do with more time to play bud


Thanks mate means slot from you 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Feel your pain on the work front mate, also out of action.


I've been lucky really.compass has taken care of me I've been furloughed but they have been making up another 10% too so it's not been too much of a hard ship 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Carefully tucked under with a light brushing of Green Gain @Jayefc1 . Out of superglue so had to do, trusting it will get gripped soon enough, but if not they’re on individual pebbles so can always go another round. No trouble so far.


Nice could tri to tie it if they dont take but knowing you they will with your green fingers


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Week three to four update....

Tell me again how your tap TDS is high 😂





Start of the week as well. Tank ticking along and calming down water changes to once per week now.









Only thing that hasn’t faired too well is some of the riccardia, but over half is doing great. On the flip side, despite the manzanita being stored in a sealed barrel since December some of the fissidens fontanus on the wood has sprung back to life and has started spreading naturally:





Both tanks have new scapes in them now as well:





Back to back triangular layouts. Will introduce some Pinnatifida into the 1200 soon and see if it smooths the transition between tanks.


----------



## Wookii

Looking good Geoff! How do you rate the ADA Solar now you’ve lived with them for a little while? How do they compare in terms of colour rendition to the ONF’s on the smaller tank?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder @Wookii but the Solar RGB’s give the most vibrant array of greens of any light I’ve used. The ONF’s are adjustable though and if tuned in right they feel warmer through the yellows and oranges. Even the la plata sand feels warmer under the ONF’s with a yellower hue. Both lights ‘pop’ the reds though.

The dividing line is on the colouration on the livestock. The ONF’s are good... However, the Solar RGB’s make the Celestial Pearl Danio’s look brilliant, orange patches vibrant, spots clearly defined. The Green Neons look the same as a stock photo and the Yellow Sakura shrimp can really be seen in detail with their segments clearly defined.

In terms of plant growing power (PAR/PUR) the ONF’s still raise a giggle at how they can turn a tank to fizzy lemonade on full whack.

Every light has something to offer. Even miss the Kessils for the shimmer and the life they brought to the old scape.


----------



## CooKieS

I actually got the cheap version of @Geoffrey Rea lights configuration ;

one onf Flat nano plus And one chihiros vivid 2 and I Totally agree with him;

onf feels warmer, but nice greens
Chihiros vivid (same spectrum as Ada solar) gives stricking red and greens, superb livestock colors, but feels colder (la plata is looking white/blue).

well I love both color rendition 

nice scapes @Geoffrey Rea


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

I think the other really important component @CooKieS is us, the viewer. What you like can change day to day which is why running different lighting on separate tanks always seemed like a good idea in this house.


----------



## CooKieS

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I think the other really important component @CooKieS is us, the viewer. What you like can change day to day which is why running different lighting on separate tanks always seemed like a good idea in this house.



agreed,
I was totally in love with the chihiros vivid 2 and swear only by that , but since I got my onf on my nano tank, I like the warmer tone of it too. Depends of the mood.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder @Wookii but the Solar RGB’s give the most vibrant array of greens of any light I’ve used. The ONF’s are adjustable though and if tuned in right they feel warmer through the yellows and oranges. Even the la plata sand feels warmer under the ONF’s with a yellower hue. Both lights ‘pop’ the reds though.
> 
> The dividing line is on the colouration on the livestock. The ONF’s are good... However, the Solar RGB’s make the Celestial Pearl Danio’s look brilliant, orange patches vibrant, spots clearly defined. The Green Neons look the same as a stock photo and the Yellow Sakura shrimp can really be seen in detail with their segments clearly defined.
> 
> In terms of plant growing power (PAR/PUR) the ONF’s still raise a giggle at how they can turn a tank to fizzy lemonade on full whack.
> 
> Every light has something to offer. Even miss the Kessils for the shimmer and the life they brought to the old scape.





CooKieS said:


> I actually got the cheap version of @Geoffrey Rea lights configuration ;
> 
> one onf Flat nano plus And one chihiros vivid 2 and I Totally agree with him;
> 
> onf feels warmer, but nice greens
> Chihiros vivid (same spectrum as Ada solar) gives stricking red and greens, superb livestock colors, but feels colder (la plata is looking white/blue).
> 
> well I love both color rendition
> 
> nice scapes @Geoffrey Rea



Thanks for the feedback guys. Whilst I don’t want to derail this thread (it’s probably a topic for its own thread really) I have the even cheaper cheap version, the Chihiros WRGB II - however all three lights appear to share the same/similar narrow band RBG LED’s.

Whilst I find the ‘pop’ of the reds and greens under this light jaw dropping, I can’t seem to see past the way it makes my tank look somewhat ‘fake’.

I think what is missing is the transitionary colours between the main RGB spikes in the spectrum. My Ember tetra for example, which are obviously supposed to be orange, shift to almost completely red, as there is an almost complete absence of orange and yellow light.

Likewise with the greens, whilst the green plants looking amazing, on closer inspection there are clearly lighter green and yellow/green shades absent.

Would you say the same for the Solar RGB Geoff, and you for the Vivid Cookie, or is this issue unique to the light I have?

I guess I need to see some more lights for myself - when this virus has been dealt with, I’ll head down to AG and take my Chihiros with me if Steve and Dave will oblige me with a colour rendition shoot out.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Whilst I don’t want to derail this thread (it’s probably a topic for its own thread really)



Nah! Not that precious about threads @Wookii fire away mate 




Wookii said:


> I think what is missing is the transitionary colours between the main RGB spikes in the spectrum. My Ember tetra for example, which are obviously supposed to be orange, shift to almost completely red, as there is an almost complete absence of orange and yellow light.



Embers are a great example. Back when I was working at AG with @Siege their were always customers who liked Embers looking  fluorescent orange. Never understood it and yes I also think it’s a mixing issue, but it probably sells well so that might be a driver. You can always add in a desk lamp with a 2700k diffused spot bulb to ‘fill the gaps’ to see if it makes any remarkable difference.

AG is perfect for seeing these units in the flesh, Dave and Steve would be happy to help post lockdown. It’s a very subjective area lighting and nothing is as good as seeing the same tank with multiple lights over it.

The Maxlite units are the middle ground and you’ll find them over Filipe’s 1500 scape.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Nah! Not that precious about threads @Wookii fire away mate



Thanks Geoff 



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Embers are a great example. Back when I was working at AG with @Siege their were always customers who liked Embers looking  fluorescent orange. Never understood it and yes I also think it’s a mixing issue, but it probably sells well so that might be a driver. You can always add in a desk lamp with a 2700k diffused spot bulb to ‘fill the gaps’ to see if it makes any remarkable difference.



I didn’t know you used to work at AG! I’ve not been there myself yet, but looking forward to visiting post lockdown. I had planned on visiting in April, but then . . .

Funnily enough, I tried almost exactly that with the WRGB II. I have a Fluval Plant 3.0 also, and that has directly controllable Cool White, Neutral White and Warm White LED’s (in addition to blue and pink). Overall at 100% the light is very yellow in colour, and washes out red and greens. It’s not a great light, but I decided to add it in next to the WRGB II (just held it along side).

After some experimenting I found that if I put just the Neutral white LED’s on at about 40% (all the rest off) I got the colour shift on the embers back towards orange, and some more variation in the greens tones, but still managed to retain those punchy reds and greens. If I pushed it too far above 40%, or used the Warm White LED’s, then everything shifted to much to yellow again. It was an interesting experiment,  and made me wonder if modding the WRGB II with a strip of neutral white LED’s might be worthwhile to fill in some of the missing spectrum.



Geoffrey Rea said:


> AG is perfect for seeing these units in the flesh, Dave and Steve would be happy to help post lockdown. It’s a very subjective area lighting and nothing is as good as seeing the same tank with multiple lights over it.
> 
> The Maxlite units are the middle ground and you’ll find them over Filipe’s 1500 scape.



Yeah I’d like to see the Maxlite Along with the ONF and ADA.

On the ADA is the ballast/power supply external to the light fitting? (just wonder if fitting a controller in between for sunrise/sunset ramping might be possible)


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> On the ADA is the ballast/power supply external to the light fitting? (just wonder if fitting a controller in between for sunrise/sunset ramping might be possible)



We’re down to brass tacks now @Wookii and the answer would be no to a controller as far as I’m aware. ADA sell a prescribed system at a premium, not a single product which flies in the face of the general UK attitude. Conformist society from source leaching through.  They want you to use 200 PAR always, which means their Amazonia soil has to be rich to deal with the light driving growth. You also have to find space for these bad boys:





However, in ADA’s defence everything runs cool and their lighting units are light. Efficiency. Their fert/lighting/substrate system works. It’s well thought out and means the consumer can enjoy success.... That is basically what you pay for. Unless you’re the kind of guy who puts two ONF Flat ones on full whack in less than 30cm of water to see what’s what 😂



Wookii said:


> Yeah I’d like to see the Maxlite Along with the ONF and ADA.



To me, the Maxlite in the colour spectrum game is the bridge between the Solar RGB and the Twinstar. The Maxlite is also adjustable in its intensity compared to ADA’s lowering and raising of the units. The gentleman who designed it is all about colour spectrum. Fills the gap once again but as always, people’s preference is highly subjective. The ONF Flat One, ADA Solar RGB’s and Maxlite all undoubtedly grow plants and punch adequate PAR to depth. We’re spoilt for choice these days.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> We’re down to brass tacks now @Wookii and the answer would be no to a controller as far as I’m aware. ADA sell a prescribed system at a premium, not a single product which flies in the face of the general UK attitude. Conformist society from source leaching through.  They want you to use 200 PAR always, which means their Amazonia soil has to be rich to deal with the light driving growth. You also have to find space for these bad boys:
> 
> View attachment 149201



True - I get the whole ‘system’ methodology - but I’m devoutly non-conformist (a serial tweaker). At the end of the day it is just a light, and with a substantial external AC/DC transformer - they are big looking beasts - inserting a Philips Hue compatible LED controller at some point in the chain should allow easy timed on/off ramping I’d have thought. Just thinking ahead if I decided to go for those ADA lights - the ramping on and off would be my only stumbling block.



Geoffrey Rea said:


> However, in ADA’s defence everything runs cool and their lighting units are light. Efficiency. Their fert/lighting/substrate system works. It’s well thought out and means the consumer can enjoy success.... That is basically what you pay for. Unless you’re the kind of guy who puts two ONF Flat ones on full whack in less than 30cm of water to see what’s what 😂



Lol you have certainly proved that it’s not possible to have too much light if you can control the other variables!



Geoffrey Rea said:


> To me, the Maxlite in the colour spectrum game is the bridge between the Solar RGB and the Twinstar. The Maxlite is also adjustable in its intensity compared to ADA’s lowering and raising of the units. The gentleman who designed it is all about colour spectrum. Fills the gap once again but as always, people’s preference is highly subjective. The ONF Flat One, ADA Solar RGB’s and Maxlite all undoubtedly grow plants and punch adequate PAR to depth. We’re spoilt for choice these days.



We are spoilt these days, it’s true. I still have my Giesemann mercury vapour lamps from 20 years ago, state of the art at the time - now they are yellow - but completely redundant now! At least they did naturally fade on and off slowly. 

All that said though, I look at the level of control that the reef guys enjoy with their lights, and can’t help but think we in the planted tank arena are still several generations behind the curve.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> All that said though, I look at the level of control that the reef guys enjoy with their lights, and can’t help but think we in the planted tank arena are still several generations behind the curve.



Everyone I’ve met in the reef scene wouldn’t bat an eyelid at spending four times what some of us in the planted side spend on a setup. Manufacturers put R&D into products that sell unfortunately.


----------



## aquascape1987

[QUOTE="Geoffrey Rea, post: 584822,Anubias petite directly under 200-300 PAR and thriving... now there’s a mystery for a supposed low light loving plant 

#KeepingTheFaith
[/QUOTE]

Hi Geoffrey,

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the trick with this part?

I have  all other algae pretty much under control in my scape FINALLY, but the one thing I cannot seem to do is, prevent my Anubias leaves growing significant amounts of green spot Alge (I think)  Sometimes, this covering even looks black in places.


----------



## Siege

I always struggle with BBA on Anubias, whatever the light.

That and Buce seem to love consistent co2 (full on or none). I think that maybe the key?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

aquascape1987 said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, what is the trick with this part?






Siege said:


> That and Buce seem to love consistent co2 (full on or none). I think that maybe the key?



Spot on @Siege

I always try to make Anubias the first thing to get hit with Co2 mist in high light and it hasn’t failed me yet.

Stuff is getting hammered with so much Co2 across its leaves and it’s slow growing. Move it a few inches either way from the misting position it performs really poorly in what is admittedly way too much light. But the over the top light  was just for a giggle.

Nerite snails do a good job keeping their leaves clean. Poorly positioned anubius can provide them a consistent food source so in relationship they both provide for each other and they will frequent its leaves.

Not saying this is causative, but more blue light in the spectrum from the ONF units seems to correlate with cleaner leaves and faster growth.

In general have found Anubias and Buce to perform better when added a few months after startup. 

Finally, good adherence of the rhizome to whatever surface it’s meant to be attached to is important. As mentioned in other thread though, don’t glue the rhizome, glue a few select roots and trim the remaining roots to stimulate new root growth.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Pure speculation this @aquascape1987 but I think once the plant is assured it’s held fast to a surface it can direct more of its resources to leaf growth for light gathering ability rather than root growth. I’m sure @dw1305 , @Mick.Dk and @ceg4048 can impart more wisdom than me regarding the internal plant systems of anubias, more empirical evidence driving these ideas being spouted from myself.

Specimens in the tanks I’ve run, after a year when inspected, all have similar length roots like the plant has stopped that behaviour all at once at some point and the result is extremely similar length roots, followed by a sudden clump of healthy leaf growth. The good thing about documenting on the journals is you can spot sudden growth periods month to month.

Anyway, enough waffle. Hope something in there helps @aquascape1987


----------



## Wookii

aquascape1987 said:


> Hi Geoffrey,
> 
> If you don’t mind me asking, what is the trick with this part?
> 
> I have  all other algae pretty much under control in my scape FINALLY, but the one thing I cannot seem to do is, prevent my Anubias leaves growing significant amounts of green spot Alge (I think)  Sometimes, this covering even looks black in places.



I have no where near the experience of Steve or Geoff, so feel free to take my comments with a pinch of the proverbial, but I’ve had mini outbreaks of BBA, staghorn and GSA (just on my Anubias with the latter).

Seachem Excel has been my go-to every time (direct fogging with a syringe). It cleared the BBA up in no time, it also cleared the staghorn up easily (though that took a little longer).

Neither came back either so I put it down to being a new tank, and maybe some CO2 fluctuation. Plus I now have what almost amounts to infestation levels of Bloody Mary shrimps, so I think any new algae youngling gets devoured before they can even think about growing.

When I’ve recently treated some of the GSA I’ve had with Excel, it seemed to clear most of that up as well. I only get it on the Anubias at the very top of my tank a couple of inches from the surface, and not on those further down the tank.

I have read Excel doesn’t always work on GSA so there may be variants that are more resilient, or it may require stronger application (direct brushing of a solution onto the leaves out of water). 

I’ve also read that GSA can be brought on by low phosphate levels, but that’s not the case for me, with EI dosing, but it might be worth enduring your levels are sufficient.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Specimens in the tanks I’ve run, after a year when inspected, all have similar length roots like the plant has stopped that behaviour all at once at some point and the result is extremely similar length roots, followed by a sudden clump of healthy leaf growth. The good thing about documenting on the journals is you can spot sudden growth periods month to month.



I’ve found the exact same cycle Geoff. My Anubias really struggled to start with, I also got some rhizome rot - I think as a result of my poor glueing technique.

After that was dealt with they pushed out loads of roots, but not much in the way of new leaves.

That’s now stopped and the last couple of months I’ve seen massive new leaf growth and rhizome extension. One particular plant has grown a good 3-4 inches across the tank bridging itself between two separate pieces of wood.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> I have no where near the experience of Steve or Geoff, so feel free to take my comments with a pinch of the proverbial, but I’ve had mini outbreaks of BBA, staghorn and GSA (just on my Anubias with the latter).



That’s because you probably do things other than obsessionally stare into people’s tanks @Wookii 😂 



Wookii said:


> Seachem Excel has been my go-to every time (direct fogging with a syringe). It cleared the BBA up in no time, it also cleared the staghorn up easily (though that took a little longer).



I use glutaraldehyde, hands up here. At heart I think a healthy tank is one that enjoys ‘ample’ o2 day and night and it’s a viable tool to help make that happen by consequence. On the glutaraldehyde side of things here’s what I can add... Consistency with it leads to adaptation from various plants. A lot of the species that are reported to melt with its use have adapted with consistent application from everything I’ve seen personally. Have never seen any general benefit by extending the 1ml per 50l rule @2% concentration other than immediately after a water change.



Wookii said:


> Plus I now have what almost amounts to infestation levels of Bloody Mary shrimps



Shrimp move detritus off leaves in their day to day movement, not to be overlooked.


----------



## Filip Krupa

Another project?!
I thought you no longer have thyme on your hands!!!! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Not many have bothered looking at that profile pic @Filip Krupa 😂


----------



## aquascape1987

@Siege @Wookii @Geoffrey Rea Thanks for the replies on the Anubias algae guys. Some really interesting stuff on the rooting and attaching element. I too have experienced the same  phenomenon with the root and leaf  growth trade off. I’ve also attempted to kill/ reduce the algae on the leaves with diluted liquid carbon applied directly during water changes, but am yet to find a low enough concentration that kills the algae, but doesn’t cause the leaf to melt a week or so later.

 I thought when I had seen that picture of the plant and the  comment about the lighting it was under, that I had stumbled upon some aquascaping secret silver bullet, and could almost hear a euphoric classical music playing in anticipation of a complete eureka moment  for me when the reply came back.

I think my issue with it in reality, is poor scape design/positioning choice for the plant on my part. I have always had a lot of it out in the open and getting pummelled by high light, in pretty much all of my scapes for years (forever). I put this down to my own personal inspiration moment that propelled me into the high light/high energy tank hobby, which was stumbling across and being dazzled by a feature of an Amano scape in a PFK edition in 2013, which featured a lot of Anubias in the mid ground. I don’t think ever quite been able to get over it psychologically .


----------



## aquascape1987

@Geoffrey Rea  I really love what you have done with the EA  1200, and I think that you have just started the brain cogs in motion for my own next aquascaping ‘evil scheme’ seeing what you have done with this tank. My other half will be over the moon, I’m sure  I like the idea of having a go at a sump system, as you mentioned earlier in the thread.

I’m very curious also about why you started off with the rear mounted spray bar before switching to more traditional glass outlets?  I love the flow distribution you can achieve with spray bars, but obviously there is the aesthetic negative that comes with using them


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

aquascape1987 said:


> @Siege @Wookii @Geoffrey Rea Thanks for the replies on the Anubias algae guys. Some really interesting stuff on the rooting and attaching element. I too have experienced the same phenomenon with the root and leaf growth trade off. I’ve also attempted to kill/ reduce the algae on the leaves with diluted liquid carbon applied directly during water changes, but am yet to find a low enough concentration that kills the algae, but doesn’t cause the leaf to melt a week or so later.



Most welcome. Also...




aquascape1987 said:


> I think my issue with it in reality, is poor scape design/positioning choice for the plant on my part. I have always had a lot of it out in the open and getting pummelled by high light, in pretty much all of my scapes for years (forever).



How would you know the perfect position upfront, especially if things grow in later and change the scape? You’ll notice on these journals I glue Anubias and Bucephalandra to little pebble sized rocks. Firstly you can pick them up and move them if they’re not happy and you can change the composition of the the scape as often as you like. 

Also...




aquascape1987 said:


> I’ve also attempted to kill/ reduce the algae on the leaves with diluted liquid carbon applied directly during water changes, but am yet to find a low enough concentration that kills the algae, but doesn’t cause the leaf to melt a week or so later.



If they’re attached to small rocks you can lift them out. If you make them removable you could try lifting out the affected Anubias, place them in an ice cream tub with some tank water and treat with hydrogen peroxide, then return it to the tank. No risk to livestock and other plants then. Just a thought. But good attachment is mandatory for good health with epiphytes.




aquascape1987 said:


> I’m very curious also about why you started off with the rear mounted spray bar before switching to more traditional glass outlets?



Basically it’s all that was in. Glassware was unavailable when it was first setup so just used an Eheim/Oase combo of parts to get started. To be fair flow is superior with spraybars as it’s even and offers great circular flow all along the length of the tank... but they’re an eyesore.



aquascape1987 said:


> I think that you have just started the brain cogs in motion for my own next aquascaping ‘evil scheme’ seeing what you have done with this tank.



Glad to hear it 😉


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick update. Feeding time and some new additions:













Wasn’t sure if Barbs would suit this setup but so far so good. Also the mystery green tetra in the last shot remains a mystery... January Tetra...?

Feel that this setup is over the first few hurdles now and is running steady. Green rocks are starting to abate and the nerites are steadily cleaning them back. Not much to be done with lights being fixed intensity so might as well make it a steady source of food for the snails for now. As things grow in further it will become less and less and will move the nerites on. The riccardia has taken a beasting adapting to the glutaraldehyde, but seems to be adapting and growing out now. Had to abandon a lot of the damaged growth and reattach what is growing back well, but it’s on its way back.

Overall feel there’s some improvements in plant selection to be had.





Trim back last night and the Guyana in the back left corner is proving to be the PITA it was suspected to be at the planting stage. It’s mainly creeping under this lighting and the location would be much better served with a voracious vertical grower like Limnophila Aromatica. Also once the bolbitis takes hold on the right, will need a plant in the back left corner that pretty much skims the surface to keep the triangular layout in shape.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

One month:





Back left corner Guyana out, kept creeping. Rotala and Ludwigia have both reached the surface and been trimmed whilst the Guyana has been growing out sideways and in circles. Ain’t nobody got time for that. Limnophila Aromatica in its place which should hopefully add the height and colour the corner needs.

Trident fern courtesy of @Siege . Absolute legend and even sorted out a bottle of thin bleach so the glassware could be cleaned. Supermarket has been cleared out with every visit so really appreciate it mate.

A few Pinnatifida attached to the manzanita just below the surface. Possibility of some growth through the surface, but we’ll see:





Fissidens in this tank is doing great:





The Riccardia... not so much:





Could be the glutaraldehyde, but will give it a month and revisit.

Got a Vuppa 2 on order so that will make an appearance soon.





As effective as the Eheim skim is, do want to see how ADA’s version compares.


----------



## Gill

love it, Did you pick out the 1 male and 3 female Odessa's or was that a fluke. He will get even darker as he starts to court the females.


----------



## CooKieS

Nice growth @Geoffrey Rea


----------



## Vijay_06

Evolving nicely! I will follow the thread to see how the scape looks like a few months from now.

What kind of stones are those? Did you just place them on the glass or used something under them to distribute the weight and avoid pressure points on the glass?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rebel

Geoffrey Rea said:


> AS1200 in, level and ready to go.





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Two ADA Solar RGB’s and ADA hanging kits on their way.


OMG This should be renamed - Spending my earnings for one decade on decadence... 

NICE!!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Gill said:


> love it, Did you pick out the 1 male and 3 female Odessa's or was that a fluke. He will get even darker as he starts to court the females.



Hi @Gill

There’s ten Odessa’s in there in total. It’s ended up five to five. Nine are fine (four males and five females), however the one remaining male was challenging initially but has calmed down with the introduction of the trident fern. The CPD’s swimming passed him seemed to trigger him, like he’s mistaking their colouration initially then realised his mistake. Have various ideas to try with this one.

Options are:

- Wait and see
- Remove the lone male
- Remove the CPD’s (there’s only five)
- Add a few more females

The CPD’s are getting removed very soon anyway and going in the tub as a breeding project this summer:






Afterwards they (and hopefully their young if breeding goes well) will end up in the AS600 anyway. So CPD’s out is the easiest thing to try first. After that wait and see. If this doesn’t work and it came down to it I would rather remove the lone male than add more females. There’s no injury or fin nipping etc. just posturing.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Thanks @CooKieS




Vijay_06 said:


> What kind of stones are those? Did you just place them on the glass or used something under them to distribute the weight and avoid pressure points on the glass?



Frodo @Vijay_06

Stones direct onto the glass. The entire hardscape is held together by itself, no glues or filter floss etc. used this time. Wood and rock interlocked, broken up stone to fill the gaps, worked out very stable. Not worried about pressure points by any particular placements, personally would be more concerned if anything could move or topple over suddenly.




rebel said:


> OMG This should be renamed - Spending my earnings for one decade on decadence...
> 
> NICE!!



Picked the title for good reason @rebel 😂

It does bring a smile every single day though, so in that way, it really is a bargain.


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It does bring a smile every single day though, so in that way, it really is a bargain.


If it makes you smile bro it is well worth every penny and I dare say the family are getting a lot of joy from such a peaceful work of art


----------



## Deano3

Looks amazing mate i love this 1200 and as jay says if makes you smile thats all the matters 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> I dare say the family are getting a lot of joy from such a peaceful work of art



Hmmm.... The scaping is the only peaceful thing about this household @Jayefc1 😂 Wouldn’t change it for the world though.

Greenery is good for the soul however. Nice little system going on for the kids to watch. Tank waters the garden and plant trimmings feed the compost bin . The compost feeds the plants. The plants feed us and the veg scraps go back in the compost bin.

The next mini project to set up is an aquaponics system for growing lettuces which will filter the summer tub. Got some aqualifter pumps, just need to install an outdoor plug socket from the kitchen to the outside and a weather proof box to put the gear in.

Don’t know what is permeating into the kids heads here but hopefully something. If nothing else, maybe a little joy from the tanks but who knows...?


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Don’t know what is permeating into the kids heads here but hopefully something. If nothing else, maybe a little joy from the tanks but who knows...?


I'm pretty sure there taking it all in 
Shame you need the electric would be leading the good life lol


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Love your garden, mine is a mess need to clean up and do veggies farming also. My kids have an interest for it. they try with failure of course.. I grew up helping my mother getting rid of weeds in her farm and taking care of her plants, and I didn't liked it that much but the harvesting was something nice. I like indoor and aqua plant keeping more.
But you have got me inspired! 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Love your garden, mine is a mess need to clean up and do veggies farming also. My kids have an interest for it. they try with failure of course.. I grew up helping my mother getting rid of weeds in her farm and taking care of her plants, and I didn't liked it that much but the harvesting was something nice. I like indoor and aqua plant keeping more.
> But you have got me inspired!



Very much the same here @DeepMetropolis

Hated gardening for the longest time because all it represented was weeding as a kid, a nuisance, something to be done, never a pleasure always a chore. As years have rolled by it all begins to fit together and having your hands in the Earth a bit becomes meaningful and dare say fun with your own kids. It’s no show garden but it fits into this family’s life and provides lots of treasures. Little lightbulb moments on the kids faces. There’s a permanent hedgehog living under the shed who controls the snails at night. Frogs living in the rocket which I don’t dare disturb because they’re happy. The benefits extend outwards into the whole web...

Glad to add some inspiration to anyone quite frankly, it’s all to a budget and personally hope that these posts are plain as well as simple and if anyone has any questions just ask. Hardly a voice of expertise but do love empiricism as a path to some success.

The raised beds are just pallet collars. The tub is a plasterers tub. The sump system is a box from a DIY store and cheap PVC pipe... etc...

I know this thread is the antithesis of that but there’s some irony here. Life don’t care about your wallet. Enjoy your hobby and all the education and surprises it can offer.

Will always be grateful for UKAPS as it allows a dialogue with people smarter and more experienced. What a gift.




DeepMetropolis said:


> But you have got me inspired!



Definitely feel honoured, go for it!


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Very much the same here @DeepMetropolis
> 
> Hated gardening for the longest time because all it represented was weeding as a kid, a nuisance, something to be done, never a pleasure always a chore. As years have rolled by it all begins to fit together and having your hands in the Earth a bit becomes meaningful and dare say fun with your own kids. It’s no show garden but it fits into this family’s life and provides lots of treasures. Little lightbulb moments on the kids faces. There’s a permanent hedgehog living under the shed who controls the snails at night. Frogs living in the rocket which I don’t dare disturb because they’re happy. The benefits extend outwards into the whole web...
> 
> Glad to add some inspiration to anyone quite frankly, it’s all to a budget and personally hope that these posts are plain as well as simple and if anyone has any questions just ask. Hardly a voice of expertise but do love empiricism as a path to some success.
> 
> The raised beds are just pallet collars. The tub is a plasterers tub. The sump system is a box from a DIY store and cheap PVC pipe... etc...
> 
> I know this thread is the antithesis of that but there’s some irony here. Life don’t care about your wallet. Enjoy your hobby and all the education and surprises it can offer.
> 
> Will always be grateful for UKAPS as it allows a dialogue with people smarter and more experienced. What a gift.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely feel honoured, go for it!


Thats really nice mate and totally agree i am very grateful for all the members and help received and great threads i have read and a great little community we have here. Great jurnal mate.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Ady34

Great journal and great dialogue. 
Love the tanks mate and inspirational content in many ways.
Cheerio,


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just to dissuade any illusions folks may have that these setups are problem free, the tank is suffering a very slight period of BBA and thread algae. Underlying it all is the Co2 wasn’t turned up to match plant mass increase. Basically the tanks operator took his eye off the ball.

Other factors include removing the floaters before the java fern had a chance to attach itself well and not replacing the riccardia given its poor performance with glutaraldehyde being dosed.

All in the recovery though....

- Co2 tuned in (factors to consider here include: level of surface agitation, bps increase and/or additional ramp up time on Co2 before lights on). Ultimately it’s up to the aquarist to make a judgement call on what will work on any particular setup to get optimum Co2 throughout the photoperiod . Some options may be more viable than others.

- Removed the majority of the riccardia on stones and replaced it with Fissidens Fontanus which is thriving. Not sure how others glue moss to rocks but here’s an outline for anyone reading who wants to know what I’ve found effective:





Spray rocks and moss so wet. Dab superglue (small dots) across the rock.

Rest wet moss on the rock and spray again. Avoid pressing down, you want attachment, not a smothering of cyanoacrylate.

Optional, but a very small dab of Green Gain speeds up adherence of fissidens to rocks.





Using a 1ml syringe to put a very small amount on each rock. Leave for ten minutes, spray again and plop in the tank. A month later you get these:





Just to tilt things in the tanks favour against BBA... filter pre-filter sponges cleaned, filter floss replaced and a quick hoover around the tank:





Filter with filter floss in. Allows the removal of detritus/fish poop/stray leaves between water changes.

Last tactic is double dosing glutaraldehyde for a week and restricting fish feeding to three times per week temporarily.


----------



## SRP3006

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Optional, but a very small dab of Green Gain speeds up adherence of fissidens to rocks.



Green gain sounds and looks like it works but do you think it out performs standard root hormone/seaweed extract that is available from garden centres? 
Just curious due to the rather high price tag (ada name of course), I've not used any products like it and interested in your experiences.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

SRP3006 said:


> Green gain sounds and looks like it works but do you think it out performs standard root hormone/seaweed extract that is available from garden centres?
> Just curious due to the rather high price tag (ada name of course), I've not used any products like it and interested in your experiences. //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png



I’ve used maxicrop (just seaweed extract, not their fertiliser) before when there were no livestock in the tank. Not keen on pouring it in the water column, more for soaking plants in or brushing on surfaces to help with adhesion to hardscape. 

Truth be told I’ve no way of knowing if green gain plus is the exact same extract but with boron added.  Just happen to have a bottle in that was bought to try and it’s lasting an age in the quantities it’s being used in. Will say that ADA state their product is aquarium safe, maxicrop don’t state one way or the other. 

Much like in the garden I find phytohormones to be most useful with seedlings/at startup.


----------



## SRP3006

Thank you, I always use the seaweed extract on my tomatoes, cucumbers, Strawberries and other veg but agreed its probably best avoided in the water column.


----------



## LondonDragon

This one is coming along nicely  Featured on the UKAPS Facebook Page


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Shiny shiny....










Question is do we put it on the 1200 or the tub in the garden? 🤔


----------



## Siege

You won’t need the small sponge that comes with it, Jammy dodgers will be far more efficient.......!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Siege said:


> You won’t need the small sponge that comes with it, Jammy dodgers will be far more efficient.......!



Maybe mini rolls this time, bit of variety.


----------



## hypnogogia

Mr Kipling Cherry Bakewell, for such a lovely tank.


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow that is shiny my ummm ADA shiny my precious


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Wow that is shiny my ummm ADA shiny my precious



Actually found you don’t notice it much in tank @Jayefc1 despite the metal body.

Only trying it out because I’m utterly hopeless at maintaining the glassware with the skim portion on it. Break them every time. In that way it’s probably better economy. Also the eheim skim just stood out too much, but the eheim skimmer is a far more powerful skimmer. Think a lot of people would be disappointed at the skim rate of the Vuppa 2. Only ever ran the eheim at minimum anyway as getting very little surface film so not too much of a problem on this setup.




Siege said:


> Jammy dodgers will be far more efficient.......!



Still having flash backs of those Jammy centres floating around @Siege such a mess. Whenever that kid eats anything now I’m watching him like a hawk 😂


----------



## Deano3

I seen them at horizon aquatics they look very smart, we want to see it in tank 

Laughed at jays jammy doger comment 

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Will post a photo tomorrow @Deano3  and people can see what they think.

As for the AS600 that got Jammy Dogered right after being scaped, it’s still suffering and requiring a watchful eye. Will update the other journal when it gets to one month.


----------



## CooKieS

Vuppa 2 has very bad reviews; underpowered, sometimes noisy depending on the water level...again, not worth it IMO.


----------



## Jayefc1

@Geoffrey Rea can the shrimp still get into the vuppa mate


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> we want to see it in tank //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji16.png



Right lights are on:














Do find it can be ignored pretty easily.

It skims very lightly but this tank is run pretty clean. No real surface film, just dust. As you can see surface is clear:








CooKieS said:


> Vuppa 2 has very bad reviews; underpowered, sometimes noisy depending on the water level...again, not worth it IMO.



I can understand this. The float switch makes it pulse on and off so you get a knocking sound. As the sponge gets more blocked this stops. Placed a fine sponge in for more resistance and it ran smooth. It’s adequate for my purposes but I think most would be disappointed. In my opinion if you want a tank skimmed install an overflow. Overflows take in everything, surface scum, fish, shrimp... even the odd plant 😂




Jayefc1 said:


> can the shrimp still get into the vuppa mate



Would be very surprised mate. It’s a very fine slit:


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick couple of shots of feeding time whilst we’re at it:









Glad to say all the Barbs have found their hierarchy and chilled out too. Just took a little time.


----------



## Ray

Geoffrey Rea said:


> View attachment 150565


Pairing those barbs with green neons is an act of genius. It’s a stunning combination - even better than the usual tried and tested combo with rummies.

I like how in spite of being so shiny the Wuppa does look very discreet and unobtrusive.


----------



## CooKieS

Fishes and tank Looks amazing mate.

despite the cons, I’ve to say the vuppa 2 in an sexy skimmer


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ray said:


> Pairing those barbs with green neons is an act of genius. It’s a stunning combination - even better than the usual tried and tested combo with rummies.



The thing you can’t capture in a photo is the behaviour @Ray

The Barbs can come charging in at feeding time and the green neons couldn’t care less 😂 They’re so large and the neons so quick that any competition becomes moot.

It is a nice blend of colours, shapes and behaviour though and it’s turned out to be a peaceful mix.




CooKieS said:


> despite the cons, I’ve to say the vuppa 2 in an sexy skimmer



Cons...

- Had to adapt the Co2 to the lower surface agitation

- Knocking sound is irritating


Solution...

- Adapt the Co2

- Use a fine sponge


It’s still a pathetic skimmer for a 1200 though @CooKieS 😂 As before though if you run a clean tank it’ll do for this size tank and it isn’t an eyesore. Bet it would be fine on a 60P or a 90P.


----------



## LondonDragon

I am liking those Barbs  they look pretty stunning  how big do they grow?
Does anyone actually need a skimmer? Never used one!


----------



## Deano3

Skimmer looks great mate as said very unobtrusive and blends in well, funnily enough just watched a great comparison of this vs eheim skimmer also shows how to strip it etc defently worth a watch on youtube by horizon aquatics, i am there tomorro picking up light and filter and soil etc for when my ea 900 arrives. 

As said i love green neons and fish look super healthy, love this tank.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Deano3

LondonDragon said:


> I am liking those Barbs  they look pretty stunning  how big do they grow?
> Does anyone actually need a skimmer? Never used one!


I get surface scum and will be using eheim skimmer in my ea 900 for a bit of flow and to keep surface clean, already have a new one so may aswel use it.

Hope your tank doing well mate

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonDragon

Deano3 said:


> Hope your tank doing well mate


So far so good, just the waiting game for plants to grow in, at this rate I might need to chop the stems next week


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

LondonDragon said:


> I am liking those Barbs  they look pretty stunning  how big do they grow?



About 5cm at maximum, so not too large.




LondonDragon said:


> Does anyone actually need a skimmer? Never used one!



‘Need’ on this particular setup I would say no, nice to have though.


----------



## CooKieS

LondonDragon said:


> I am liking those Barbs  they look pretty stunning  how big do they grow?
> Does anyone actually need a skimmer? Never used one!


I’m only using my eheim to skim all the cuttings after an trimming session


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Finally cut and crimped the hanging cables:





Only took 5 months...

Even straightened the lights. I know it was bothering you @Siege 😂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Meanwhile down on the farm...





Not a bad yield of Charlottes from 4x2ft. Wind broke the stems so called it early, but this weeks hot weather should dry them out well. Another round in to see if we can get lucky and still another 60 Stuttgarter Riesen onions to harvest next month as well.


Sprinkling of compost on top:





Round two:


----------



## Jayefc1

Those challots look good mate 
But the riesen onions are so.much better jealous yes I am


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Aye and the riesen’s are actually the easiest variety I’ve grown in our recent unpredictable spring/early summer weather. Massive thick stem and couldn’t care less about the recent thunderstorms, wind and varying temp.

You should get growing them @Jayefc1 before the season ends... anywhere in your garden that drains rapidly. Been popping them in any available gap to cope with the kids future sauce demands 😂


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha there is no where safe from a football and a 5 year old chasing it lol other wise I would have had a good crop going maybe in a couple of years when he spreads his wings a little lol


----------



## Filip Krupa

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Finally cut and crimped the hanging cables:
> 
> View attachment 151061
> 
> Only took 5 months...
> 
> Even straightened the lights. I know it was bothering you @Siege 😂
> 
> View attachment 151062



Haha R&M true level. Is right... class show


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Filip Krupa said:


> Haha R&M true level. Is right... class show



Everyone else on here be wanting a chemistry lesson or the silver bullet for BBA @Filip Krupa

I just want to know what the talking cat who went to Florida did in his past that could truly be that awful...? 😂


----------



## Filip Krupa

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I just want to know what the talking cat who went to Florida did in his past that could truly be that awful...? 😂



That cat is a real test of your imagination for hell... Im not about to take a punt 🤣

Nor would I ask Rick to make me a stop/rewind remote for real life!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

The onions were hung. They didn’t get access to a lawyer or a fair trial...


----------



## Jayefc1

Ha was ADA the judge jury and exocutioner


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Ha was ADA the judge jury and exocutioner



It was @Jayefc1 and ADA did the lot of them with Moss Cotton...

Upon receiving the invoice from ADA for works rendered there was a large sum being charged for said Moss Cotton

“But it’s just green bloody cotton thread” Geoff’s accountant roared 

But alas, he was wrong... it is ADA Moss Cotton and therefore better....


----------



## Jayefc1

The green cotton killings 
But it's ok cause it must be longer thicker and stronger than any other world produced thread


----------



## Tim Harrison

Geoffrey Rea said:


> The onions were hung. They didn’t get access to a lawyer or a fair trial...
> 
> 
> View attachment 151339


Nice harvest, should keep you going for a while. You're actually inspiring me to have a go


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> Nice harvest, should keep you going for a while. You're actually inspiring me to have a go



Thats half of the first round hanging up @Tim Harrison . The other two rounds of larger varieties should see us well into next year. Literally takes no effort at all as they don’t need watering really and if they’re in decent soil and compost the feeding is already done as well.  What’s not to love?

Had a fair few charlottes that were smaller because they got cut short by the high winds. Flip side is they’re so sweet that it would have been criminal not to pickle some:


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick couple of shots of the tanks whilst they’re confectionary/toy free today:









600 at five weeks and 1200 is seven weeks old.


----------



## Kezzab

I like the seque into onions. More vegetable based content please.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Kezzab said:


> I like the seque into onions. More vegetable based content please.



Never sure if people think I’ve lost the (vegetable) plot when random photos of veg turn up on this thread @Kezzab

The tank being used as a propagator is a fair few posts back so must seem random if you didn’t catch that snippet.

Nine of the tomato plants out the front:





99p buckets with holes drilled, placed in some trays so they can be watered and fed from the roots. Should trim off the lower leaves but they shield the soil from the wind and slow down evaporation.

Going to be a lot of tomato sauce soon...


----------



## Kezzab

Tomato envy. No fruit on ours yet.


----------



## CooKieS

Lovely.

let me spoil your thread with some pics from my garden.  First time gardening this year and I feel like I’m getting old doing it but find out it was as exciting as growing aquarium plants + the fact you can eat your own vegetables,  is something very addictive.


----------



## Ray

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Nine of the tomato plants out the front:
> 
> View attachment 151495


Is that... is that real grass?  It looks, erm... ...perfect!?


----------



## Wookii

Ray said:


> Is that... is that real grass?  It looks, erm... ...perfect!?



Lol I was annoyed by the grass too - my lawn looks like a bomb fettled battle field after two boys playing football on it every day!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Lovely.
> 
> let me spoil your thread with some pics from my garden.  First time gardening this year and I feel like I’m getting old doing it but find out it was as exciting as growing aquarium plants + the fact you can eat your own vegetables, is something very addictive.



Love it mate and beautiful photography as well.



Ray said:


> Is that... is that real grass? It looks, erm... ...perfect!?



Yep. Drives the neighbours bonkers trying to figure out why a few cm’s over it becomes weed city on their front lawn.

A few more onions pulled out this morning:





And the lily is finally beginning to flower by the summer tub:







Wookii said:


> Lol I was annoyed by the grass too - my lawn looks like a bomb fettled battle field after two boys playing football on it every day!


----------



## CooKieS

Amazing lawn too...what’s your secret? Fertilizing it?


----------



## SRP3006

I've been out reseeding, feeding, raking and working in top soil every year for the last 5 years and then I see your grass. Not a weed in sight.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just to put the lawn thing in context, I hate lawns...


However... Have this neighbour who just can’t keep his opinion to himself. I was watering the lawn with a watering can in the middle of the day when we first moved here and bugalugs wanders over and starts delivering a sermon about how I’m wasting water... I should just stop... look over yonder to be amazed as his lawn is beautiful and he only ever waters in the morning.... He basically uses one of those fertiliser dispensers you walk with and rains down a ton of Westland after cut and drowns his lawn daily in the morning during the summer.



I just smile, nod in agreement, give off an ‘okay then...’ and he wanders off back to smug-ville.



Anyway... long story short the hot weather rolls in and every lawn on this street turns yellow and our’s doesn’t. Gave him something to think about I guess.


Only thing I do is water in the middle of the day whilst the grass is uptaking with some rainwater and micros in it. Usually before any hot spell or every forty days during the summer. The happy lawn is a bi-product, the fact that bugalugs is gonna have to be humble, stop lecturing people and ask someone else a question for once if he wants to know ‘the secret’ is the real prize.



He uses a £500 mower and I use a crappy second hand rusted manual mower as well which must blow his mind 😂


In a nutshell I’m not a big enough man to let it go, so the lawn gets micro rain every month or so during the summer now.



Established lawns shouldn’t really need feeding but some iron and other micros as a foliar feed help with drought tolerance, unless you have a more temperate grass species that goes dormant in the heat anyway regardless. Just like in tanks too much phosphate can mess with iron uptake on your lawn and quite frankly, I think lawn feeds are way too aggressive with N-P-K and just cause more mowing, not healthy grass.


I like lawns with clover mixed in, that stuff never drys out, is green all year and requires no maintenance. Anyhow, with successive years the weeds don’t get a look in anymore and the kids trampling the grass has toughened it up and encouraged good sideways spreading, no roller required. So we’re down to mowing once in a while as grass doesn’t grow too quickly and a spray once in a while with no weeding - easy lawn life.


----------



## SRP3006

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I like lawns with clover mixed in, that stuff never drys out, is green all year and requires no maintenance.




I added clover or green manure to my lawn a few years ago, got fed up with looking at dead patches of grass and it did improve things but as you say isn't trample resistant. Also when it flowers it brings all those beneficial insects to my garden to keep the 'bad' ones off my kale, cucumbers and fruit.


----------



## Kezzab

Lawn rage. It's real.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Kezzab said:


> Lawn rage. It's real.



Shall I pop over under cover of darkness and spray a massive smiley face on his lawn with micros @Kezzab ? Maybe it will cheer him up a bit?

Oooo, maybe with some sunglasses on 😎

Would look awesome when the hot weather kicks back in.


----------



## CooKieS

Kezzab said:


> Lawn rage. It's real.


Hahahaha thanks for the laughs , it’s the case here in France too, My neighborhood are crazy, one has even spend thousands euros to remake it every year 

I don’t care as much about mine which is an mess for now but I’m grateful for the tips @Geoffrey Rea as I need to get it healthier this fall, for the challenge


----------



## hypnogogia

Geoffrey Rea said:


> with some rainwater and micros in it


How many grams of micro per litre of water do you use?


----------



## Siege

AstroTurf looks so realistic nowadays! 😃


----------



## Ray

I can’t even begin to compete here so I’m changing the rules: if you can’t find 50 different species growing on your lawn, you’re doing it wrong!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Ray said:


> if you can’t find 50 different species growing on your lawn, you’re doing it wrong!


I've tried, I've spent 25 years trying to reduce the nutrients in the lawn, but the lady who had the house before us had <"three dogs and they  have "permanently" ruined the lawn">.

In the UK you can register yourself for the <"BSBI - Garden Wildflower Hunt">. I got to 96 species, but I could probably find a few more now.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

hypnogogia said:


> How many grams of micro per litre of water do you use?



You're gonna hate me @hypnogogia but I eyeball stuff like this. Aiming for a 1/3 to 1/2 a teaspoon of the equivalent of APF’s trace mix per 10l of water and just walking backwards slowly with a fine rose watering can. Not sure it really matters with micros though.



Siege said:


> AstroTurf looks so realistic nowadays! 😃



AstroTurf has never looked realistic 😂



CooKieS said:


> I need to get it healthier this fall, for the challenge



You’ll start your own lawn wars @CooKieS

The other war around here is over car parking... Let’s not go there.



dw1305 said:


> I've tried, I've spent 25 years trying to reduce the nutrients in the lawn, but the lady who had the house before us had <"three dogs and they have "permanently" ruined the lawn">.



It’s the same at my parents house. Previous owners had multiple dogs and their lawn is a mixed bag regardless of what they do. Bees love it though and the diversity is more relaxing to look at quite frankly.

Personally I hate uniformity and straight lines but the other half does not. Just looks barren to me when it’s a monoculture but to each their own. I can’t moan though, she has said nowt about all the tanks over the years so her garden wishes get a free pass.


----------



## hypnogogia

Geoffrey Rea said:


> but I eyeball stuff like this


Lol.  That’s how I cook.  Drives my wife crazy.  “How much....?”  I don’t know.  “How long does it need to cook for.” Don’t know, until it’s done.  🤣


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

hypnogogia said:


> Lol. That’s how I cook. Drives my wife crazy. “How much....?” I don’t know. “How long does it need to cook for.” Don’t know, until it’s done. 🤣



Snap 😂 Good luck working out any recipes in this house.

The standard response to “how much?” is “just enough and not a drop more” 😂


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Previous owners had multiple dogs and their lawn is a mixed bag regardless of what they do. Bees love it though and the diversity is more relaxing to look at quite frankly.


That was what I wanted, but the grass just grows too well. My guess is that it is a phosphorus effect, the soluble macronutrients (N & K) will have depleted, but the soil is a limy clay and <"elevated phosphorus is now present on a geological timescale"> .

Down the road from us they haven't mowed their front lawn, and it is full of flowers, including a Bee Orchid. It looks just like a limestone down, the grass is still short and there are a lot more flowers than grass.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

dw1305 said:


> That was what I wanted, but the grass just grows too well. My guess is that it is a phosphorus effect, the soluble macronutrients (N & K) will have depleted, but the soil is a limy clay and <"elevated phosphorus is now present on a geological timescale"> .
> 
> Down the road from us they haven't mowed their front lawn, and it is full of flowers, including a Bee Orchid. It looks just like a limestone down, the grass is still short and there are a lot more flowers than grass.



Two feet down on this property you hit boulder clay which is typical in the higher elevations around the Ouse valley in pockets. Stuff is an impenetrable layer devoid of life from what I’ve seen, even the rose bushes roots were shallow. The top soil above this is largely builders debris and was pretty poor top soil severely lacking in organic matter when we moved in. Weeds loved the boarders but planting the boarders up with flowers resulted in very fast growth then perishing very early in the season. I think the previous owners fertilised and watered heavily so it’s also likely the ground around the boarders here was poisoned by phosphate buildup as well.

The arid conditions in Cambridgeshire make controlling moisture and preventing the leaching out of N and K a very reasonable prospect. I think you mentioned the other day @dw1305 that Cambridgeshire receives the same average rainfall as Jerusalem. Certainly feels like it living here. The hottest temp recorded in Britain at Cambridge Botanical Gardens last year is just 16 miles away as the crow flies and it seldom rains.

The second year here I fed the boarders sparingly only using foliar spray with a general feed and there was some improvement in longevity in the boarders. The earthworms also seemed to increase. It was suggested to me at that time that foliar feeding only might be helping the soil recover from poor oxygen because of phosphate buildup.

Third, fourth and fifth year I’ve added in old aquarium sand, manure in autumn and green compost. The ground has an incredible amount of earthworms now when compared to five years ago. Don’t know how much I should be leaning on this, but taking it on faith that this a good sign.

That’s where the idea for the micro foliar feed for the lawn came from and every now and then I just leave the grass trimmings on top for N and K and the worms take it back in. The grass (mainly Perennial ryegrass) is more robust across the year and suffocates the weeds out. Out of the micros it’s probably only iron and zinc that really matter though and the grass doesn’t go dormant anymore but also doesn’t grow as fast as a bonus.

As usual I don’t possess enough knowledge to explain why these changes are happening, just what is happening with each change I make. It doesn’t really account for climatic change, amount of clear days per year etc... Even thunderstorms fix nitrogen and we’ve had a fair few last two summers between prolonged dry spells so maybe that’s a factor.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

2 months:






Between trimming sessions at the moment so the stems are at odd heights. Once the Trident fern and Bolbitis get a shift on can then start estimating the height and spread the stems need to be in order to be apparent.

In the meantime just thickening the growth out:






Hopefully the two scapes will eventually complement each other through a similar pallet of colours in an arc:






Sand will be going back to La Plata soon too.


----------



## hypnogogia

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hopefully the two scapes will eventually complement each other through a similar pallet of colours in an arc:


I wonder if anybody has ever tried a triptych with aquaria?


----------



## Onoma1

James Findley tried a Triptych:


----------



## Melll

Apart from the above by The Green Machine there is a video on youtube, cannot remember if it was Oliver Knott or Jurijs Jutjajevs, that had three young people each doing a tank that then became a triptych.


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> 2 months:
> 
> 
> View attachment 152040
> 
> Between trimming sessions at the moment so the stems are at odd heights. Once the Trident fern and Bolbitis get a shift on can then start estimating the height and spread the stems need to be in order to be apparent.
> 
> In the meantime just thickening the growth out:
> 
> 
> View attachment 152041
> 
> Hopefully the two scapes will eventually complement each other through a similar pallet of colours in an arc:
> 
> 
> View attachment 152043
> 
> Sand will be going back to La Plata soon too.


Looking really good geoffrey they already compliment each other well but will look amazing when colours are closer matched.

Loving the jurnals thanks for sharing
Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Vijay_06

Looking very nice! I love slightly dark shaded area that starts under the Trident Fern and runs almost to the right end of the scape. It seems to provide added impact.

Have you used Frodo stones in a scape with just RO water? I am wondering how much it increases the PH, GH and TDS by in a week or so. I have read some articles that state Frodo Stones are almost inert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

hypnogogia said:


> I wonder if anybody has ever tried a triptych with aquaria?



Pretty much everyone actually. My personal favourite was James Starr-Marshall’s circa 2011.









Deano3 said:


> Looking really good geoffrey they already compliment each other well but will look amazing when colours are closer matched.
> 
> Loving the jurnals thanks for sharing
> Dean



Thanks @Deano3 will start concentrating on colouring up when everything hits the right height.




Vijay_06 said:


> Looking very nice! I love slightly dark shaded area that starts under the Trident Fern and runs almost to the right end of the scape. It seems to provide added impact.



Hi @Vijay_06

There’s a ton of crypts planted at substrate level at startup. They should poke out of those shaded areas eventually and give a denser texture but
take a hit at the beginning without any cover/floaters. If you ever decide to have a big change up they’re already there as a base (e.g trading tall stems for tall crypts sp. like balansae or vallis for a more jungle look). Tank at startup:







Swamped for now:






Crypts are probably a couple of months off from showing up in the shaded areas.



Vijay_06 said:


> Have you used Frodo stones in a scape with just RO water? I am wondering how much it increases the PH, GH and TDS by in a week or so. I have read some articles that state Frodo Stones are almost inert.



Yep, used Frodo with RO cut with tap before. With weekly water changes I’ve never noticed any increases but then again I’m not testing... because of the reset from weekly water changes.


----------



## LondonDragon

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Pretty much everyone actually. My personal favourite was James Starr-Marshall’s circa 2011.


Those were awesome, I remember those at the Aqueous Art Movement that UKAPS members were part off and carrying the tanks up the stairs to the cars to send them back north! haha


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

LondonDragon said:


> Those were awesome, I remember those at the Aqueous Art Movement that UKAPS members were part off and carrying the tanks up the stairs to the cars to send them back north! haha



Wow... well jealous @LondonDragon bet that was a great event.

There seemed to be some real stand out figures 2010-2015.


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow that is coming along so nicely is the light green clumps at the base and up a little the mc did you glue it?


----------



## CooKieS

Mate, how are you keeping the sand so clean? I mean this white stuff is full of fish poo in a few hours


----------



## Vijay_06

I am not sure if you have shared this before. How would you compare ONF with the Solar RGB in terms of color rendition? I have seen a few videos which show the ONF showcasing great colors on the plants and livestock, but have also read that it makes the Greens appear yellowish. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonDragon

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Wow... well jealous @LondonDragon bet that was a great event.
> There seemed to be some real stand out figures 2010-2015.


Yeah was a great time back then, shame a lot of those are not longer around creating scapes, stuff they were doing back then would still be pretty impressive today! But some are still around and new people up and coming. I guess it comes a time when you have to think where do you go from a certain position, do you aim for competitions and become an established aquascaper or you call it a day, unfortunately some just go quite and leave the hobby! Also sometimes life just takes over 
I am happy to have a planted tank again and I am just aiming for something that I like and enjoy having in my living room, at the end of the day thats the value of it, if you want to take it up a notch then why not 

Edit! did you see this video?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Wow that is coming along so nicely is the light green clumps at the base and up a little the mc did you glue it?



Mixed story @Jayefc1

They were clumps of mc tucked under single rocks at start up:





Tank is made out of scraps from other tanks in lockdown. MC had moss mixed in and the moss has done a lot of attaching in its stead. Something fluctuated in the tap water and then the clumps suffered a bout of hair algae. Then this slowed down the MC, but gave the moss an advantage so lots of attachment. Hair algae got sorted and the MC with moss has a nice interdependent relationship going on to keep it anchored... probably not the answer you wanted but no, there’s not much superglue involved in this tank.

Even the Fissidens is tufts left over after several months drying out that have sprung back to life.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Mate, how are you keeping the sand so clean? I mean this white stuff is full of fish poo in a few hours



Fresh sand in last night @CooKieS

No magic here unfortunately. Only using white Hugo Kamashi as have run out of La Plata.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Vijay_06 said:


> I am not sure if you have shared this before. How would you compare ONF with the Solar RGB in terms of color rendition? I have seen a few videos which show the ONF showcasing great colors on the plants and livestock, but have also read that it makes the Greens appear yellowish.



Basically yes the ONF appears more yellowish (or warmer), but then beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. The Solar RGB brings out the greens with more contrast between those tones but not so much the yellow in a scape.

I suppose my response is you can’t really compare colour rendition as a plus/minus scale as it’s highly subjective as to what people experience and enjoy.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

LondonDragon said:


> Yeah was a great time back then, shame a lot of those are not longer around creating scapes, stuff they were doing back then would still be pretty impressive today! But some are still around and new people up and coming. I guess it comes a time when you have to think where do you go from a certain position, do you aim for competitions and become an established aquascaper or you call it a day, unfortunately some just go quite and leave the hobby! Also sometimes life just takes over
> I am happy to have a planted tank again and I am just aiming for something that I like and enjoy having in my living room, at the end of the day thats the value of it, if you want to take it up a notch then why not
> 
> Edit! did you see this video?



Sometimes being happy staring at your tank in the living room is all you’ll ever need in return for the effort expended.

Thank you for sharing that video @LondonDragon , I haven’t seen it before and it was nice to see


----------



## Vijay_06

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Basically yes the ONF appears more yellowish (or warmer), but then beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. The Solar RGB brings out the greens with more contrast between those tones but not so much the yellow in a scape.
> 
> I suppose my response is you can’t really compare colour rendition as a plus/minus scale as it’s highly subjective as to what people experience and enjoy.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree that color rendition can be very subjective. I saw one Spanish comparison video between these two lights in YouTube. I don’t understand Spanish, but I got the same understanding on color rendition looking at the video. But unless these two lights are shown side by side like shown in that video, one might not even realize the differences in color rendition between these two top notch lights.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CooKieS

Vijay_06 said:


> Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree that color rendition can be very subjective. I saw one Spanish comparison video between these two lights in YouTube. I don’t understand Spanish, but I got the same understanding on color rendition looking at the video. But unless these two lights are shown side by side like shown in that video, one might not even realize the differences in color rendition between these two top notch lights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I got the vivid 2 from chihiros (near the same rendition as the Ada solar) and the onf flat one Nano+ on both tanks of my living room.

when compared side by side, the onf as an more yellowish tone and the chihiros is blueish green. Well, it’s all a matter of taste,I like both. The onf do looks more natural, the vivid just make all the colors pops.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Vijay_06 said:


> But unless these two lights are shown side by side like shown in that video, one might not even realize the differences in color rendition between these two top notch lights.



It has to be in person @Vijay_06 . This is two shots from yesterday of the same tank and lighting taken a few seconds apart on an iPhone 11 Pro:









See how much the white sand is playing havoc with the iPhones colour correction!

The second photo is more true to life but still isn’t accurate to what I subjectively see in person. I’m sure @CooKieS has the same experience photographing the Vivid 2 as well.

Have always advised people to find somewhere or someone (another UKAPS member or a place like Aquarium Gardens that runs different units side by side) so you can see the units you’re thinking of purchasing in person before shelling out. Photo/video is not reliable due to the image production and representation process altering what we see.


----------



## Harry H

@Geoffrey Rea, your tank causes a lot of tank envy in UKAPS! Seriously man, @Ady34 's 1500 and your 1200 are the best this year in my humble opinion...


----------



## Melll

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It has to be in person @Vijay_06 . This is two shots from yesterday of the same tank and lighting taken a few seconds apart on an iPhone 11 Pro:
> 
> View attachment 152090
> 
> View attachment 152091
> 
> See how much the white sand is playing havoc with the iPhones colour correction!
> 
> The second photo is more true to life but still isn’t accurate to what I subjectively see in person. I’m sure @CooKieS has the same experience photographing the Vivid 2 as well.
> 
> Have always advised people to find somewhere or someone (another UKAPS member or a place like Aquarium Gardens that runs different units side by side) so you can see the units you’re thinking of purchasing in person before shelling out. Photo/video is not reliable due to the image production and representation process altering what we see.




This would look absolutely fantastic in my lounge.  It is stunning.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Harry H said:


> @Geoffrey Rea, your tank causes a lot of tank envy in UKAPS! Seriously man, @Ady34 's 1500 and your 1200 are the best this year in my humble opinion...



Love all of @Ady34 ‘s and @CooKieS setups. They both set their aquariums in beautiful, aesthetically pleasing surroundings too... it just all looks so darn nice 

Kind words @Harry H but this setup has a long road ahead so we’ll see how it pans out. Stuff naturally happens that’s beyond anything I do. Fissidens travels and attaches to random rocks for example:





Looking forward to finding out where else it might colonise without intervention and where it’s happy.

The finished setup will hopefully be a bit more organic, there’s only the stems that require any work. However, the fish selection is really what has made this scape work. Need a video really, that doesn’t translate on a photo. But the Odessa’s are beautifully coloured up and happy:





The Green Neons are on show pretty much always (apart from when you want a photo 😂) and there’s sixty of them. Really cool when they school together for a bit then disperse again. Brings the scape to life.


----------



## hypnogogia

Interesting way of feeding them.  How do you get the Petri dish to the bottom without losing food along the way? And how do you deal with crowding at the ‘dinner table’?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

hypnogogia said:


> Interesting way of feeding them. How do you get the Petri dish to the bottom without losing food along the way? And how do you deal with crowding at the ‘dinner table’?



JBL Novo Fect tab, sticks to the glass.

It does encourage crowding as this is a heavily stocked tank. However, the dispersal from the ensuing excitement allows everyone a bit of food. Barbs make the mess by getting stuck in, Green Neons grab particles floating up, shrimp mop up any remaining food that lands which is almost never. All gone and a good go to food.

Do feed a variety to target feed throughout the week:





May only feed one species at a time; surface feeding for the Green Neons or large sinking pellets for the Odessa’s for example. Live food every now and then too to mix it up.


----------



## ChrisD80

Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] could I ask a question about your beautiful sand and how you keep it so pristine? 

I am using sand (ADA Colorado) for the first time and therefore don’t really have experience. I currently have just two fish in my 300litre aquarium (1 mature harlequin Rasbora and 1 Otocinclus). Having been away for just 4 days I came back to the sand covered in a great deal of fish poo which is very unsightly. I also have a bad case of diatoms as you will see in the photo. I had vacuumed it just before I left.

I am so surprised that fish really poo so much! I can count well in excess of 50 separate faeces deposits, and the sand only covers part of the total floor area so there will be more on the aquasoil. If I were to extrapolate the amount produced by my two fish to your fully stocked aquarium I can’t imagine how you cope. 

Any ideas, observations?

Many thanks
Chris







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

ChrisD80 said:


> Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] could I ask a question about your beautiful sand and how you keep it so pristine?



Don’t be fooled @ChrisD80 that sand was freshly in the day before that photo.

You will notice the sand is only a cosmetic layer 2mm deep though so is easy/economical to replace using a small amount. Maybe something to think about for the future.

However, between monthly changes just keep it simple. If you have some tubing, just siphon into a bucket slowly and wiggle the tubing above the sand to kick up dirt without siphoning the sand. This keeps the tank looking clean throughout the month.

When keeping Corydoras with a deeper sand bed they’ve done a good job of turning the sand over and keeping it cleaner too.


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> replace


Hi Geoff, looking good.
Do you just ditch the old sand or clean it? Sorry if I've missed you already saying but couldn't find the answer.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @Andrew Butler 

It’s such small amounts that it makes sense to simply put it to use elsewhere e.g. mix it in with our compost or chuck it in the summer tub.

An 8kg bag of La Plata will do over a year on this tank. The layer is just thick enough to hide the glass and there isn’t any fish species that require a bed of sand either.

Some people will soak in bleach and water to reuse, but if you have pets or small kids you would need to be a little careful where you leave it laying around. Find it false economy using bleach, prime and time to reuse personally. 

Treating sand as a consumable and finding a second use for it to answer the question.


----------



## ChrisD80

Thank you [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] for the advice. 

Due to my layout having a sand path which rises towards the rear I cannot get away with a very thin layer but I do intend to stock with some Corydoras so hopefully they will help.

As I siphon to remove the fish waste and debris some sand does inevitably get sucked up, which I have kept. It has some aquasoil mixed in with it but I heard you can use a magnet to attract the soil so I will give that a go.

I do have some of the original 8kg bag left for replacements so I can make use of that. 

Cheers Chris


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Week 12 and significant cut back of all the stems (over half):










Switched over to RO/tap mix so starting the new growth in the new water parameters from as close to the substrate as possible, hence the scissor happy session. They’ll be back soon enough.





On that note, the MC and Fissidens are next on the hit list. Will shape out the MC and spread the moss out along the manzi with moss cotton where it’s most likely to stay apparent. Should be enough Fissidens to spread it out adequately now.

Finally getting a better feel for the colour and shape of this setup. Figuring out what will count and what will just get swamped by its neighbours. Makes it easier to trim more confidently.

New toy as well:









Hope everyone is enjoying their scapes


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Week 12 and significant cut back of all the stems (over half):
> 
> View attachment 152527
> 
> View attachment 152528
> 
> Switched over to RO/tap mix so starting the new growth in the new water parameters from as close to the substrate as possible, hence the scissor happy session. They’ll be back soon enough.
> 
> View attachment 152538
> 
> On that note, the MC and Fissidens are next on the hit list. Will shape out the MC and spread the moss out along the manzi with moss cotton where it’s most likely to stay apparent. Should be enough Fissidens to spread it out adequately now.
> 
> Finally getting a better feel for the colour and shape of this setup. Figuring out what will count and what will just get swamped by its neighbours. Makes it easier to trim more confidently.
> 
> New toy as well:
> 
> View attachment 152536
> 
> View attachment 152537
> 
> Hope everyone is enjoying their scapes



Looking fantastic Geoff. 

I must have missed this point, but do you have the MC growing just attached to the rocks, how did you attached it and have the roots attach naturally as its grown?


----------



## Putney

The plants looks awesome


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> I must have missed this point, but do you have the MC growing just attached to the rocks, how did you attached it and have the roots attach naturally as its grown?



Hey @Wookii 

This tank and the AS600 are made up of scraps from other tanks. Consequently the MC had moss mixed in with it and took a bet it would attach. 

Simply wrapped the MC around a pebble and tucked some of it under before placing it in a few spots with lots of rocky surface to grab onto:





As you can see the moss has worked it’s way out and is anchoring the MC down. Just taken advantage of the situation basically...  gone with the flow.




Putney said:


> The plants looks awesome



Cheers @Putney and hopefully the new stem growth will be lush too, fingers crossed.

Will be sorting the Fissidens moss out next. After that then maybe attaching Pinnatifida to select areas of wood directly under the lights for some dashes of orange, take advantage of the controlled water parameters to bring out some colour.


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> New toy as well:


If you turn the power off, then on again (simulate power cut) do you have to connect to it through the app before it will work again? 
Looking good though.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Andrew Butler said:


> If you turn the power off, then on again (simulate power cut) do you have to connect to it through the app before it will work again?



First thing I tried @Andrew Butler

Left it plugged in overnight then cut the power in the morning for an hour. Plugged the unit back in without doing anything and it dosed the tanks.

So no, you don’t have to connect it through the app after a power cut for it to work. The units battery backup and memory remember the settings.

More generally...

Got the unit dosing both tanks now but it wasn’t without a struggle:





Have been pretty scathing of D-D’s take on the Kamoer app. The connectivity through the router on the 2.4GHz band hasn’t worked either. To the point that I’m having to run the unit on its own network using the phone as the interface, minus the internet based functionality.

The dosing unit itself works and is accurate once calibrated though, but it’s far from a polished product from the experience so far.


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Have been pretty scathing of D-D’s take on the Kamoer app. The connectivity through the router on the 2.4GHz band hasn’t worked either. To the point that I’m having to run the unit on its own network using the phone as the interface, minus the internet based functionality.
> 
> The dosing unit itself works and is accurate once calibrated though, but it’s far from a polished product from the experience so far.


Maybe it's just the single channel doser that needs connecting to after a power cut; I'll have to find the thread.
I've read about people having problems with the 2.4/5GHz connectivity, better reading on the marine forums but as I said elsewhere, I expected far more of a product where D-D and Kamoer are involved.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Missed the 3 month update so 3 1/2 ish:





As with the AS600 have been away for two weeks and the auto doser has worked out well. Usual water change, glass clean and sand replacement upon return. However, had a fair bit of hair algae to contend with as well, predominantly on the MC hence the shaggy look from spinning toothbrushes. Will need shaping out again once it settles.





Started trimming today but ways to go, the garden took priority so had to stop for the time being.

The trident fern and bolbitis are taking a while to fill out, longer than thought actually. At full growth the hope is they swallow up the manzi up to where the Fissidens moss stops but we’ll see.


----------



## ChrisD80

[mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] looks fantastic!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Deano3

Love this scape and natural look of it defently one of my favourites  

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Putney

Wow that looks amazing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Melll

It is pretty damn gorgeous isn`t it 👍😃


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Big trim to the base finally comes around:





Replanted top third:





Emersed Pinnatifida. Very low relative humidity in here so we’ll see if it lasts:









Trusty clean up crew:

















And the rest:













Tank scalped:













Really bare without the stems up the back. However, improved distribution for the epiphytes to take advantage of over the next month so looking forward to a healthy growth spurt.


----------



## SRP3006

No point beating about the bush, this scape is absolutely gorgeous.


----------



## Luketendo

Really nice. Did the pinnatafida grow out of the tank naturally?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Luketendo said:


> Really nice. Did the pinnatafida grow out of the tank naturally?



Hi @Luketendo

Never managed to get Pinnatifida to transition from submersed to emersed. These plants were moved from the summer tub and were bought emersed, planted half in the water and half out in the tub then have ended up in the 1200.

Even previous attempts of emersed bought Pinnatifida, then planted emersed directly, have died very quickly in this house. Relative humidity is 40% at 20C regularly so far too dry. I think because these plants were hardened up outside this summer they’re doing alright this time, but we’ll see.



SRP3006 said:


> No point beating about the bush, this scape is absolutely gorgeous.



Thanks for the positive feedback @SRP3006

According to the other half the last tank was “too green” and this one is “too fussy” 😂   She gets the obligatory Big Lebowski quote in return...





Don’t misunderstand, would love to deliver a scape she fancies but yet to discover how you operate “less green” and “less fussy”... 😂


----------



## Andrew Butler

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Don’t misunderstand, would love to deliver a scape she fancies but yet to discover how you operate “less green” and “less fussy”


Flowers in a vase


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Andrew Butler said:


> Flowers in a vase



If only things were that simple @Andrew Butler


----------



## Jayefc1

Nothing is ever that simple I buy my misses flowers every week it makes her smile and keeps her happy and off my back lol


----------



## LondonDragon

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Tank scalped:


Totally amazing, in a way similar to Ady's tank which I love and this I love also! I was actually thinking going sand on mine and at the last minute due to not having that many rocks decided to go carpet at the front, maybe I should reconsider!!  

Amazing work as always, your tanks always spotless and organized


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @LondonDragon and yes @Ady34 ’s 1500 is simply excellent.

Can’t claim to have been influenced by anyone else’s scapes putting this one together though, was roaring drunk listening to Tool, Pink Floyd and Five Finger Death Punch one night and decided to just start placing hardscape randomly... The end result is what you see 😂 😂 😂 Such a refined process...

Hopefully bringing this 1200 together for the end of the month. Added anubias nana, nana bonzai, schismatoglottis prietoi and vesicularia montagnei christmas moss on small stones today. Should finalise the foreground in about four more weeks growth:





The stems are there health wise, they just need the height once again with a few odd cuts to keep the triangular format:





The christmas moss will hopefully smooth out the straight edges on some of the stones which was a bother visually:





For anyone interested the RO water plan got binned and this tank is run on very hard Cambridgeshire tap water:





Have been asked a few times how this tank gets fertilised so here you are:

Nitrate and magnesium come out of the tap estimated at N 23.9ppm and Mg 8.31ppm average so are omitted from the fertilisation regime, consequently these macro nutrients will always be in decline between each weekly water change of 80%. A six day alternation between macros (P+K) and micros is used just like EI. However, micros are run at half of EI levels so very lean micro nutrient wise.

Accounting for the tap water report and input this gives target values of:

K             17-18ppm (consistent)
NO3      20-23ppm (declining)
PO4       5-6ppm (consistent)
Mg          7ppm (declining)

As before micros are half of EI values and EDTA iron is used as the main chelated iron.

Should the tank show any particular issues due to fluctuations in the tap parameters these can be targeted individually:





It’s proved an effective mid-lean fert method that gives slower cleaner growth using hard tap, without resorting to RO. Pretty sure it can be refined further to benefit Rotala and Ludwigia species but it’s good enough for a home scape.

So there you go, hope that answers people’s questions.


----------



## Jayefc1

What changed your mind about going ro in the end you seemed pretty set on it


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Simple answer, I budget six hours per month per tank maximum, it’s usually four. Using RO on the 1200 and 600 immediately fouled that rule so after just one week it had to go.


----------



## LondonDragon

I was going to ask you about your fert regime so that answered that  many thanks
Just wondering on your lighting settings for this tank?? I am seeing some algae, and I am thinking it's the light to CO2 balance that is wrong at the moment.


----------



## CooKieS

Nice scaping process...listening to Tool and Pink Floyd.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

LondonDragon said:


> Just wondering on your lighting settings for this tank?? I am seeing some algae, and I am thinking it's the light to CO2 balance that is wrong at the moment.



Buckle in @LondonDragon , this has turned into a longer answer than intended. Should imagine it’s not terribly enlightening to yourself, but thought it worth expanding on a few ideas for anyone interested. A direct answer to your question is at the end of the post...

Solar RGB’s are always 100% so not much choice on that front. Even then, despite the persuasion towards ramping up light levels as a standard on UKAPS, have experience of starting up tanks with 200 PAR at substrate from the get go. It works with very rich substrate like ADA Amazonia type one and perfectly dialled in co2 that tracks with demand. High plant mass is a given though. However, only ever run 6-7 hour lighting periods. It’s not novel, this hobby is littered with tanks that pull off the same procedure.

If it’s high light, then nutrient demand needs to be met as response time for problems to crop up is quicker making the margin for error less. That is unless you’re limiting the system through specific nutrients. In this 1200 it’s nitrate and iron that are targeted for limiting growth, found that the species in this tank are able to reasonably adapt to their varying concentrations and more importantly, take advantage of their abundance when they arrive back in the water column. Controlling the growth rate without screwing the pooch so to speak. Epiphytes suffer the worst as they have no access to soil located nutrition for backup, but what you gonna do? On the flip side the epiphytes serve as indicator plants throughout the tank, location specific, nutrient specific, feedback - bonus! If there’s a deficiency caused by poorer distribution in the water column due to higher plant mass (before a trim is due for example) just temporarily increase nutrient concentrations in the water column for the benefit of the epiphytes. You can lower it after the trim when distribution is returned to optimum. With the aforementioned fert regime a few posts back, the decline in magnesium availability throughout the week is noticeable as pearling decreases across the week without some targeted input of MgSO4. But limiting a nutrient like Co2, we see that outcome all the time.

Despite all the above I’m sure you’re aware of my previous ramblings, the measure of success in this house is high o2 availability 24/7 for the system. Everything else falls under that principle; plant health, aerobic bacteria colony size, ability to filter, livestock well being and system redundancy in the potential of a mishap. I design everything/deliberately intervene in the service of o2. In the beginning it’s slanted towards intervention through system design; lifting lily pipes at night, spray bars aimed towards the surface at night, running airstones outside the Co2/photoperiod to provide o2 through surface agitation or a wet/dry sump design. Then handing off to biological means of o2 production through photosynthesis (removing night time aeration and tuning your Co2 again to account for the lower amount of gassing off). Laugh, hate, love or cry at anything mentioned above. It’s just an opinion and based on personal experience. Appreciate there’s many paths to Rome.

Just read your journal Paulo, you mentioned some green filamentous algae on the mosses and the grass.

First question is have you used a turkey baster to clear out any detritus whilst draining the tank? Moss/carpets attract and hold crap (literally) really well.

Second question is are those locations the origin of the green filamentous algae? Meaning, the rest of the tank is fine.

Before messing with other variables maintenance is the easiest option to execute without inadvertently affecting your whole tank. If you’ve added an hour to the photoperiod then it’s plausible you need to tune your Co2 in again regardless. Good Co2 management is probably the least well practiced skill and as Clive has always asserted, it’s the source of many woes for many folks.

Would try hoovering your carpet a bit first and see what comes up. Like you there’s Barbs in this tank and they are hungry/produce higher amounts of waste. If you did go for a sand foreground you would save yourself hassle as just siphoning out the sand monthly and replacing removes a ton of fish waste in one fell swoop.

The other side is all tanks are susceptible to some sort of algae, usually due to scape design, but sometimes it’s just persistent because it succeeds in an area that’s hard to control. In this 1200 there’s two types of green hair algae... one seems to do well with high nitrate, the other with low nitrate. Whichever way you go one of them proliferates.... so decided to screw them both by letting nitrate decline across the week. Neither species is getting what it wants all the time, slowing it’s progress and making removal less frequent. Maybe over time that battle will be won over both hair algae types, but in the meantime both are made uncomfortable.




CooKieS said:


> Nice scaping process...listening to Tool and Pink Floyd.



Oh yes.


----------



## Deano3

Said before but this and adys are 2 of my favorite aquascapes ever so stunning and thrown together drunk you are so skilled.

So is this not a long term scape and fancying a change ?

Dean



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonDragon

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Buckle in @LondonDragon , this has turned into a longer answer than intended.


A great answer and thanks for taking the time to reply, I kept lights 100% for the first 2-3 weeks and had a 6 hours photo period, since I use the light controller I am ramping it up to 100 over 2 hours, 100% for 4 hours and then ramp down for another 2 hours to 10% and then from 10% to 0% over two hours for night light. Might change that back to my original plan and see.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Just read your journal Paulo, you mentioned some green filamentous algae on the mosses and the grass.
> First question is have you used a turkey baster to clear out any detritus whilst draining the tank? Moss/carpets attract and hold crap (literally) really well.


I do use a turkey baster, but I am going to syphon the grass at my next water change properly into a bucket instead and see if that helps.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Second question is are those locations the origin of the green filamentous algae? Meaning, the rest of the tank is fine.


Seems to be location specific and also in areas of high flow, rather than lack of distribution.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Good Co2 management is probably the least well practiced skill and as Clive has always asserted, it’s the source of many woes for many folks.


Yeah this is always my nightmare, getting the injection right and the method too, and know when to adjust it also, have not used CO2 in almost a decade so have to adjust myself to it also.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> the measure of success in this house is high o2 availability 24/7 for the system.


I tend to agree and I do lift my lilly pipes during the night, it is a bit of pain trying to remember though  (a few times forgot to either lift them or put them back in the morning).

Overall the algae issues are a lot better now than they were 3 weeks ago, not that much visible, and the snail population has almost disappeared too, I am still struggling with the stems, and doesn't help the Barbs like to frolic in the middle of them and pull them up often. 

Many thanks


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> thrown together drunk



Hope this is my epitaph Dean 😂 Sums it all up beautifully...


----------



## Jayefc1

How fitting would it be all that needs to be added is in the garage lol


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hope this is my epitaph Dean  Sums it all up beautifully...


 you did a amazing job, maybe i should try it next time  are you planning a rescape mate or is this long term scape.

Just with you saying one more month of growth.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

LondonDragon said:


> I kept lights 100% for the first 2-3 weeks and had a 6 hours photo period, since I use the light controller I am ramping it up to 100 over 2 hours, 100% for 4 hours and then ramp down for another 2 hours to 10% and then from 10% to 0% over two hours for night light. Might change that back to my original plan and see.



Interesting Paulo, begs the question that if it was working was it worth changing it? On balance have found far less problems without ramp up/down periods. If it’s a fifteen minute ramp up and down then could support it as it seems to have had no negative affect on plants. Certain fish that startle easily have really appreciated it too and obviously we have to consider them as well.

Can’t really isolate lighting without mentioning Co2 though, they’re in relationship...

Both tanks in the house now just have lights that come on/off, their lighting period is six hours and have found Co2 periods of one hour longer (e.g Co2 on 10am to 5pm and lighting period 2pm to 8pm) to work out well in general. That’s 7 hours of Co2 to 6 hours of light offset.

The order of organisation that Co2 input is decided here is:

- amount of time of input (it needs to ramp up ppm to desired level before lights on, with enough above the optimum at lights on to deal with an initial dip when plants begin uptake)

- a reasonable off time is needed (Co2 off with 3 more hours of light without Co2 is no problem here as the needs of the plants for carbon are met with the consistency of the first 3 hours of input). This may vary from tank to tank though and requires a bit of play - look at water clarity. Clear water, well oxygenated everything

 - the photoperiod being capped at six hours with a commitment to that photoperiod (changing photoperiod length relates to all other points of adjustment with Co2) as changing photoperiod relates to everything else 

- working with a consistent working pressure on a dual stage regulator which leaves...

- the final factor here in this version of Co2 setup being the needle valve

You’re then after a refinement process using a single knob to fine tune your Co2 in very small increments (1/8 of a turn at a time) to find the sweet spot that week.

With all of the above being held consistent you’re simply tracking your plants needs with 1/8 of a turn between trimming when required - simple! The point is even if you don’t fine tune with the needle valve you’re probably only 10% out from spot on with this method.

Strongly believe a whole host of problems seen on the forum are because people change say, lighting period, Co2 period length and (insert what you want) as well. It’s undisciplined is the point.

Get that the scapes I run won’t win any awards and certainly not any authority here, it’s just relaying experiences. But the water is gin bloody clear and the tanks look like jacuzzis with all the pearling when they’re in the photo period. I believe that’s owed to holding as many things as consistent as possible and not letting the temptation of changing too many things at once take control.

Being as methodical as possible pays off big time sums it all up I guess.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> are you planning a rescape mate or is this long term scape.



Not sure Dean. Suppose at this point just getting it to the point where it looks like a decent triangular setup without the need for much intervention is the current goal.

After that just let it run. If ever a major change up was desired all the Cryptocoryne species that went in at the beginning are still there at substrate level hidden away. Could quickly change the look of the tank and add floating plants for a different feel entirely.


----------



## Deano3

Certainly doesnt need changed and and would keep it the same as looks great. However i will be looking forward to your next venture  these tanks are certainly something to strive for.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea




----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Nice scaping process...listening to Tool and Pink Floyd.



Just to go full circle @CooKieS ... When tearing down a scape - Led Zeppelin, When The Levee Breaks. On repeat...

Also performed whilst drunk. It’s a matter of ceremony. Something about John Bonham beating those drums like they did him wrong always fits with a tear down of a setup.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

More wood...






Not sure if this is an improvement or not. Left some gaps between rocks at substrate level at startup for this scenario in case any particular pieces in AG caught the eye and could be retrofitted, but found some manzanita in the garage that had been forgot about so popped them in instead.

One thing that is a certainty is some of the fissidens on the wood just looks wrong running full length, could skim off the moss from the tips of the branches so it doesn’t look so odd. Trimming moss is a personal pet hate so the less the better. Waiting for the Christmas moss to sprawl out onto the sand to soften the base before making any changes moss wise though.





Also considering letting some of the MC sprawl out onto the sand to further the transition into the sand. Probably all jobs for next month.


----------



## GHNelson

I like it, very nice indeed!


----------



## Jayefc1

To be honest not convinced on the new wood just yet maybe a few more pics would help decide 🤔


----------



## SRP3006

Wish I could get my MC to grow like that, second that, even half as good as that


----------



## adavin

That's one awesome scape.. Great work

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> To be honest not convinced on the new wood just yet maybe a few more pics would help decide 🤔



In context @Jayefc1 :





Since replanting the AS600 the AS1200 just looked out of place. Despite what others may think, still consider the 1200 low planting. Wood may currently look odd now exposed high up:





But once everything is positioned will let the stems have their way and there won’t be much manzanita left exposed so trying to prevent the scape becoming featureless:





Still want some wood sticking out the top and from the intended curve you can see how little would remain. Need the plant mass though if this scape is to be longer term. Considering going full EI for a bit to pump things up.

The alternative for increasing plant mass is to remove the sand and plant a carpet, but quite frankly, ain’t masochistic enough to endure that torment. Floating plants are out as Co2 is fine tuned between trims by slightly varying the surface agitation, floaters make that method more risky and less reliable.

Know there’s a better scape to be found here but still mulling it over.



SRP3006 said:


> Wish I could get my MC to grow like that, second that, even half as good as that



Found it easier to handle planted as an epiphyte Sam. After this setup would use it this way from now on and consider mini hair grass as the go to carpet plant. 



adavin said:


> That's one awesome scape.. Great work



Cheers @adavin

Hoping to make it better these coming months.


----------



## SRP3006

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Found it easier to handle planted as an epiphyte Sam. After this setup would use it this way from now on and consider mini hair grass as the go to carpet plant.



Thanks Geoff, do you glue the mc to the hardscape then or simply try to wedge it? I have actually just moved some Hairgrass from the scapers tank to the 900 as I thought I may fare better with it


----------



## LondonDragon

Looks awesome to me  I like the extra wood pieces added


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks Geoff, do you glue the mc to the hardscape then or simply try to wedge it? I have actually just moved some Hairgrass from the scapers tank to the 900 as I thought I may fare better with it //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji4.png



Yes, all the above and more. MC is like Orville the duck...





“I wish I could fly....”

MC just wants to fly away. Your job is to stop it 😂

Whether it’s coming home to an entire carpet that’s achieved a lift off that NASA would be proud of, to sections pearling so hard that it’s lifted up and is flapping around like Donald Trump’s wig in the wind... had the pleasure of experiencing it.

Would say at this point though it doesn’t matter how you keep it down, try multiple methods at once.

Trimming regularly is a must if it’s in soil so it doesn’t become buoyant. If used as a carpet, lift up, break up and plant as plugs again periodically. If sticking to hardscape, glue it on. On this scape the MC came from an old scape so had moss mixed in with it, luckily the moss has attached to the rock anchoring it down. Just wrapped the MC around pebbles and placed them at the beginning. As it’s grown off the rocks and dangled down have periodically glued small rocks to the MC behind what you see to keep it weighed down where it trails off the rocks.

If it were dragon stone you could stuff it in the pockets. Usually note when other’s do this they keep it trimmed down to a sliver of MC, not huge domes of the stuff like in this 1200. Anything goes really, MC ain’t no epiphyte despite how it’s being used so get creative.


----------



## SRP3006

Cheers for the detailed reply, I'll give it another bash, I still have small remnants left over that are growing so we'll see, but as you say it doesnt like to stay where its put. Caught in the skimmer everyday when I come home.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> o sections pearling so hard that it’s lifted up and is flapping around like Donald Trump’s wig in the wind... had the pleasure of experiencing it.


I so wish that was "_had the pleasure of experiencing Donald Trump's wig in the wind_".......

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Yes, all the above and more. MC is like Orville the duck...
> 
> View attachment 154664
> 
> “I wish I could fly....”
> 
> MC just wants to fly away. Your job is to stop it 😂
> 
> Whether it’s coming home to an entire carpet that’s achieved a lift off that NASA would be proud of, to sections pearling so hard that it’s lifted up and is flapping around like Donald Trump’s wig in the wind... had the pleasure of experiencing it.
> 
> Would say at this point though it doesn’t matter how you keep it down, try multiple methods at once.
> 
> Trimming regularly is a must if it’s in soil so it doesn’t become buoyant. If used as a carpet, lift up, break up and plant as plugs again periodically. If sticking to hardscape, glue it on. On this scape the MC came from an old scape so had moss mixed in with it, luckily the moss has attached to the rock anchoring it down. Just wrapped the MC around pebbles and placed them at the beginning. As it’s grown off the rocks and dangled down have periodically glued small rocks to the MC behind what you see to keep it weighed down where it trails off the rocks.
> 
> If it were dragon stone you could stuff it in the pockets. Usually note when other’s do this they keep it trimmed down to a sliver of MC, not huge domes of the stuff like in this 1200. Anything goes really, MC ain’t no epiphyte despite how it’s being used so get creative.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

I heard Delia dunnit @Wookii

https://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/orville-the-duck-dead/


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Popped to AG today.

Anubias nana 'Pinto' and Anubias Barteri var. nana 'Snow White':





Both part of the limited edition range but still in stock at Aquarium Gardens if you like something different.


----------



## Jayefc1

How many snow white did you get @Geoffrey Rea I like that it is different


----------



## Andrew Butler

Jayefc1 said:


> How many snow white did you get @Geoffrey Rea I like that it is different


+1 Looks very nice.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It comes in vitro  @Jayefc1

Managed thirteen portions like this out of this particular  pot:





Dotted them around the tank in different locations to see how they perform.


----------



## SRP3006

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It comes in vitro @Jayefc1
> 
> Managed thirteen portions like this out of this particular pot:
> 
> View attachment 155050
> 
> Dotted them around the tank in different locations to see how they perform.


Am I right in thinking that due to the colour and lack of chlorophyll in the leaves they could be challenging to grow and very slow? Ie an algae magnet for someone like me 

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


----------



## Siege

SRP3006 said:


> Am I right in thinking that due to the colour and lack of chlorophyll in the leaves they could be challenging to grow and very slow? Ie an algae magnet for someone like me
> 
> Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk



don’t worry it’ll look lovely with a nice black fringe growing on it  - a new species maybe....?

stick it in a pot.....this time next year Roders.......! 👍😃


----------



## Jayefc1

@SRP3006 think it would need to be in a well balanced mature tank to thrive so mine is out of the question lol


----------



## SRP3006

Siege said:


> don’t worry it’ll look lovely with a nice black fringe growing on it - a new species maybe....?
> 
> stick It in a pot.....this time next year Roders.......!


The nice black fringe I'd have no problem growing lol

Mine too @Jayefc1 and not sure I'd do it any justice. 
Does look good though and a plant I'd love to grow.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

SRP3006 said:


> Am I right in thinking that due to the colour and lack of chlorophyll in the leaves they could be challenging to grow and very slow? Ie an algae magnet for someone like me //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png//emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji1787.png



Bought it for the challenge, not particularly a fan of variegated plants or pale leaves. Time will tell but yes, guessing it may be a bit precious. This tank is heavily stocked and frequently fed so odds are stacked against it.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> not particularly a fan of variegated plants or pale leaves.


<"I couldn't keep it">, I'd just feel sorry for it every day, poor sickly little thing.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

dw1305 said:


> I'd just feel sorry for it every day, poor sickly thing.



“Elliot....”


----------



## CooKieS

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, <"I couldn't keep it">, I'd just feel sorry for it every day, poor sickly little thing.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Same here, seen some at my lfs, they sold them 25€ per pot  (aquaflora in vitro), couldn't understand the hype, but I'm curious too see the new leaves coming out of these, heard they could be green again in a good maintained tank likeyours @Geoffrey Rea 



Geoffrey Rea said:


> “Elliot....”
> 
> View attachment 155053




Hahahaha


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> couldn't understand the hype, but I'm curious too see the new leaves coming out of these



Ditto. They weren’t particularly cheap specimens but what is this hobby without new learning.

Treating them like any other Anubius; carefully cleaned rock wool/gel from the rhizome and roots, no cutting or breaking up to begin with, superglue on select roots at the ends but never the rhizome, good contact between rhizome and hardscape, mostly positioned in path of Co2 mist but not in very high flow areas.

Locations of the Snow White are all roughly within the same line across the width of the tank and equal distance from central under the Solar RGB’s, only the depth varies. The specimens positioned within the top twelve inches were pearling gently last night so they’re not hopeless.

House cleaning; filters cleaned, new prefilter sponges in, new floss in, lily pipes raised overnight, removal of as much detritus this morning, sand out, new sand in, water change.





If all that doesn’t give it enough of a leg up then I’ll try it in a low tech and a mid tech tank. Give it a month first....


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Walking passed the tanks tonight and randomly began pratting around with the 1200. Started finger picking the odd plant, then started ripping the fissidens moss off the wood wholesale, then tore out a load of ratty trident....





Was only on the way to the fridge for a beer and ended up doing a proper finger pinching pruning session 😂

Have come to the conclusion in all that absent minded action that if the tank is to carry on with no focal point it needs an extra layer of planting to over shadow the lower growth to add some interest. Have no idea how this will end up growth wise, just a flight of fancy really. Often wonder if other members work like this, no real plan but more organically across time? Sometimes seems like everyone gets inspired by nature whilst bugalugs here gets inspired by his fourth beer...





Above all else the inhabitants seem happy and the green neons schooling together over the scape like in the above photos really makes it a fun scape to watch.

The stems would look cool poking over the top of a mixture of ferns though with mini bolbitis attached to the front side of the wood on the left. That annoyingly straight piece of manzi pointing out almost horizontally from the trident would be better used with epiphytes on to give mid ground contrast and to break up the similar green shades.

This project has really been a scraps tank up to now. However, with a few adjustments it should come good. White sand will be going soon as finally running out of the stuff, more earthy tones instead with graded stone like in the 600. The Christmas moss on stones at the base on the right can be spread out as well to stretch the scape out.

White plants are battling on:





Seems to like high light but we’ll see after a month of photon bombardment from the Solar RGB’s how they’re doing.


----------



## Wookii

@Geoffrey Rea is that Pinnatifida growing out of the top of the tank? Has that grown out of the tank on its own accord, or have you had to manually place it there?

I'm hoping to achieve similar on my tank - do you have to do anything special to look after the emersed parts?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @Wookii



Wookii said:


> @Geoffrey Rea is that Pinnatifida growing out of the top of the tank? Has that grown out of the tank on its own accord, or have you had to manually place it there?



Answered this question a few pages back:



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Never managed to get Pinnatifida to transition from submersed to emersed. These plants were moved from the summer tub and were bought emersed, planted half in the water and half out in the tub then have ended up in the 1200.
> 
> Even previous attempts of emersed bought Pinnatifida, then planted emersed directly, have died very quickly in this house. Relative humidity is 40% at 20C regularly so far too dry. I think because these plants were hardened up outside this summer they’re doing alright this time, but we’ll see.


----------



## rebel

Masterful restraint. NICE!!!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea




----------



## Jayefc1

Whats this


----------



## Deano3

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Whats this



Shopping trip to Aquarium Gardens. Not the pint of milk and loaf of bread the wife was expecting when I said I’m just nipping to the shop. Some absolutely superb hardscape in AG today.

Curtains are closing on the scraps tank, it was a lockdown scape after all, entirely made out of what’s to hand and kind plant donations. Had a final tinker and with another month of growth it will be at its best so it can end with a bang to honour it.

Can get a lot more out of this 1200.


----------



## Jayefc1

Love your ambition can't wait for the next chapter mate looks like it could be a forest them with all the twigs in the back


----------



## oscar

Geoffrey Rea said:


> View attachment 155826


Luv the wood 👌


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Really currious to see what you congé up with with this hardscape, see a lot of twigs.. Is it going to be a competition tank? 

Greetz, Luciën.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Yes.


----------



## Jayefc1

Yes?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea




----------



## Jayefc1

Haha omg yes


----------



## CooKieS

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Walking passed the tanks tonight and randomly began pratting around with the 1200. Started finger picking the odd plant, then started ripping the fissidens moss off the wood wholesale, then tore out a load of ratty trident....
> 
> View attachment 155128
> 
> Was only on the way to the fridge for a beer and ended up doing a proper finger pinching pruning session 😂
> 
> Have come to the conclusion in all that absent minded action that if the tank is to carry on with no focal point it needs an extra layer of planting to over shadow the lower growth to add some interest. Have no idea how this will end up growth wise, just a flight of fancy really. Often wonder if other members work like this, no real plan but more organically across time? Sometimes seems like everyone gets inspired by nature whilst bugalugs here gets inspired by his fourth beer...
> 
> View attachment 155129
> 
> Above all else the inhabitants seem happy and the green neons schooling together over the scape like in the above photos really makes it a fun scape to watch.
> 
> The stems would look cool poking over the top of a mixture of ferns though with mini bolbitis attached to the front side of the wood on the left. That annoyingly straight piece of manzi pointing out almost horizontally from the trident would be better used with epiphytes on to give mid ground contrast and to break up the similar green shades.
> 
> This project has really been a scraps tank up to now. However, with a few adjustments it should come good. White sand will be going soon as finally running out of the stuff, more earthy tones instead with graded stone like in the 600. The Christmas moss on stones at the base on the right can be spread out as well to stretch the scape out.
> 
> White plants are battling on:
> 
> View attachment 155130
> 
> Seems to like high light but we’ll see after a month of photon bombardment from the Solar RGB’s how they’re doing.



how is your Snow White anubia doing? Mine started melting after 3 days only! Haha


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @CooKieS hope you are well.



CooKieS said:


> how is your Snow White anubia doing?



Everything at 1ft depth has melted, leaves, roots and rhizome.

A few specimens placed in heavy shade at 2ft are also melting at a decreased rate, but are on a downward trajectory.

The remainder are either at 2ft depth in full light placed centrally beneath the Solar RGB’s and hit with Co2 mist or placed breaching the surface on the tips of the wood. These particular plants haven’t shown signs of deterioration, but neither do they seem to be growing.


----------



## rebel

Geoffrey Rea said:


> remainder are either at 2ft depth in full light placed centrally beneath the Solar RGB’s


That's about right for a white plant. They want MOAR light and CO2.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


rebel said:


> They want MOAR light and CO2.


Really chlorophyll deficient plants are always going to be problematic in terms of light (and CO2 acquisition), just because they lack chlorophyll. They are on a starvation diet and being bombarded by an excess of solar energy, that they can't easily dissipate.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> These particular plants haven’t shown signs of deterioration, but neither do they seem to be growing.


My guess is that is quite promising, even under optimal conditions they are going to grow in proportion to how much chlorophyll they have.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

dw1305 said:


> My guess is that is quite promising, even under optimal conditions they are going to grow in proportion to how much chlorophyll they have.



Don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up. This is most definitely a case of dead man walking 😂

Have always presumed when seeing white anubius in contest photo’s it’s been placed very recently prior to a final photo. It was worth shelling out just to see for myself. Give it another four weeks and doubt there will be anything left. However, could potentially work emersed longer term though.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

One final shot:






Scape comes down tomorrow and starting another project.

It has been fun and a laugh sharing this one with you through lockdown so thanks for all the banter folks.

Looking forward to the next one!


----------



## Jayefc1

Thats obviously not the final final shot though is it ummmm


----------



## Tim Harrison

That is awesome Geoff. It's always a shame but when it's time to move on...
Looking forward to see what you're about to do next, sure it'll be awesome too.


----------



## Wookii

Oooo the magic disappearing thread reappears!


----------



## CooKieS

really loving that splash of red coming from the ludwigia !


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Oooo the magic disappearing thread reappears!



Microsoft Paint crashed @Wookii 😂 



Jayefc1 said:


> Thats obviously not the final final shot though is it ummmm



Afraid so Jay, end of the line for the scraps tank. It’s an improvement over the propagator setup though hey 😂



Tim Harrison said:


> That is awesome Geoff. It's always a shame but when it's time to move on...
> Looking forward to see what you're about to do next, sure it'll be awesome too.



Cheers Tim. Better prepared this time round after two lockdowns so will pull my finger out. Been stocking up.



CooKieS said:


> really loving that splash of red coming from the ludwigia !



Bit of a contrast hey @CooKieS  😂 Will aim to be a bit more subtle on the next one. Loving your scapes FYI


----------



## Wolf6

Awesome tank and really looking forward to your next project  Dont keep us waiting too long!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wolf6 said:


> Awesome tank and really looking forward to your next project  Dont keep us waiting too long!



Excited here too @Wolf6 

The previous scape only happened thanks to @Siege donating his plants when everything was scarce during the lockdown, which I can’t thank him enough for. Top man and great friend, thank you Steve.

This time around better prepared.





I was committed to the idea of doing a couple of competition tanks, but if I’m honest I’m simply not competitive enough, nor skilled enough. Would just end up becoming filler and lose the ability to share on here, so putting that idea to bed. Kudos to everyone who does go for it and the experience of running through the process has delivered a much better appreciation for the commitment needed, it’s immense. There’s one extremely talented gentleman on here I’m especially rooting for 😉

Genuinely enjoy sharing these journals with all the ideas and banter, hopefully they’re helpful to some folks too. So not stopping. Will put the next scape together in the coming weeks and follow it up on this thread. More banter awaits...


----------



## Wookii

Nice looking rock there @Geoffrey Rea - is that all black lava rock?

I’m definitely going with that in my next scape too after the issues I’ve experienced recently with Seiryu stone.


----------



## SRP3006

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Genuinely enjoy sharing these journals with all the ideas and banter, hopefully they’re helpful to some folks too. So not stopping. Will put the next scape together in the coming weeks and follow it up on this thread. More banter awaits...



Definitely extremely helpful and inspirational, looking forward to what you do next.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> is that all black lava rock?



Certainly is. Find lava rock really difficult to work with so bought two boxes of the stuff 😂


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Certainly is. Find lava rock really difficult to work with so bought two boxes of the stuff 😂



What is it about it that you find difficult to work with? (Not used it myself before incidentally)


----------



## Jayefc1

Ohhh that is an interesting amount of hardscapr


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Well with Frodo stone @Wookii , the textures really are pronounced due to its colour. It casts shadows along those fracture lines so it highlights its shape really well.

Black lava, being black, hides its shape and texture. You mainly only get an outline and miss out on its finer details. On the other hand if you stack it together you can create large features out of multiple rocks that look like one huge piece. It’s also brilliant for attaching plants to and gives great adherence because of its porous quality.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Yah!


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow you have gone all out with this scape 
That hardscape just dissapears in to the back ground good job mate


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

The only thing better than a successful scape @Jayefc1 is a successful tear down. Not a scratch on the 1200 and intending to keep it that way.


----------



## Jayefc1

Agreed mate it is such a beautiful tank and they do look amazing even empty


----------



## Jayefc1

Just looked at the empty tank pic and it looks like your lights are positioned at the back of the tank is there a reason there not central


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Just looked at the empty tank pic and it looks like your lights are positioned at the back of the tank is there a reason there not central



It’s just the design of the ADA hanging kit @Jayefc1 





Keeps side viewing available.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

On to the next one....





Stick it together and 24 hours to cure.





End result:





View from the sofa:





Going to glue the wood to the base glass and give it another 24 hours to cure. Then can move on to the rock work with a few beers after the kids go to bed.

There’s more wood available but still undecided how to use it or if to use it at all.


----------



## Deano3

That is some great peices of wood cant wait for this one  love your jurnals always very helpful and insightful.



Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Wookii

Nice! I like those large pieces of wood - are they from AG? (Listed on their site as Corbo Catfish root?)

EDIT: is that Proharu easy to remove from the glass later on then? Does it set rock hard, or stay semi flexible?


----------



## Nico Felici

Looks great to me! Interesting the choice to have no rocks around the main wood (did I get it right?)


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> your jurnals always very helpful and insightful.



Appreciate the feedback Dean. Try to document the scapes so if they work then folks can grab some ideas, if they don’t then folks can see the pitfalls of certain methods. Would rather them be a good example than a terrible warning though 😂




Wookii said:


> Nice! I like those large pieces of wood - are they from AG? (Listed on their site as Corbo Catfish root?)



It’s a mixture @Wookii . Six pieces so far, five different types, one of them Catfish root. Don’t worry about the names much anymore, just the texture and shape for the orientation they’ll be used in.




Wookii said:


> EDIT: is that Proharu easy to remove from the glass later on then? Does it set rock hard, or stay semi flexible?



You can carefully scrape it off with a razor, yes. Just need to remember where the attachment points are. It’s slightly elastic once set.




Nico Felici said:


> Interesting the choice to have no rocks around the main wood (did I get it right?)



Not got around to adding the rocks in @Nico Felici , there’s going to a lot of height behind the right side though. Still just glueing the wood down first so it doesn’t float (wood hasn’t been pre-soaked) when tank gets flooded:


----------



## Jayefc1

Looking good mate the frames make it look like the lights are more toward s the rear of the tank


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

The floor is Lava!! 









Rock in:










Building up the back:









Powersand between the gaps:





Dash extra of Bacter 100:





Topped with soil:









Done ✅


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> The floor is Lava


Omg ollie my son would love that 
You going full ada with the bacter and tramaline 

Looks really good mate a full carpet this time too I guess


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> You going full ada with the bacter and tramaline



Didn’t really need the Bacter as it’s already on the powersand. Had it in so used it. But yes, it is a full ADA substrate system.




Jayefc1 said:


> Looks really good mate a full carpet this time too I guess



Everything this time Jay, anything goes. Created lots of areas of varying light and should have good distribution so ideal for planting out all sorts. Can borrow from the 600, still have everything from the last setup and adding more as well.


----------



## Sammy Islam

Looks amazing already! I've always wanted a scape with a tree stump sort of thing. Maybe one day when i break down my 900. 🤔

Looking forward to following along! 😀


----------



## Jayefc1

Has a bit of a feel to the phillipe scape at AG if you know what I mean   with the 2 larger stumps


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Looks really great love the right side.. With the rocks in place it all makes sense.. Are you planning to add the small twigs? 

Greetz, Luciën.


----------



## Deano3

As others have said great job cant wait for this mate 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nice, a really solid and well grounded scape. That wood looks like it's been there for ever growing out of an ancient lava flow 👍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Are you planning to add the small twigs?



Don’t think so Luciën, not with this one. It wouldn’t really add any value and really want to get back to simply concentrating on plant health and form. The current wood in the scape being exposed to the strongest area of lighting will present a big problem at startup, the less to maintain the more time there is to attend to the anticipated problems with this scape design.



Tim Harrison said:


> Nice, a really solid and well grounded scape.



Cheers Tim. Kept it simple but should provide a decent setup to showcase the Green Neon’s once again. Going colourful with the planting this time, scissor happy scape. Hopefully get planted and flooded this weekend.


----------



## Paul27

Hardscape looks great. Going to be a stunner when planted


----------



## CooKieS

Hi mate, would have been nice to put that left wood high enough to reach the surface


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Hi mate, would have been nice to put that left wood high enough to reach the surface



Did have it high at one point on some rocks then positioned it lower for better viewing towards the back left.

Putting a lily outlet in the back left corner shooting right along the back with Cyperus helferi blowing about for some movement in the scape.


----------



## CooKieS

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Did have it high at one point on some rocks then positioned it lower for better viewing towards the back left.
> 
> Putting a lily outlet in the back left corner shooting right along the back with Cyperus helferi blowing about for some movement in the scape.



always wanted to try cyperus helferi, it’s so beautiful and mesmerizing when floating in the flow. Definitely something I’ll try on my next one. Anyway, don’t hesitate to go bold with your hardscape as once planted you won’t see a lot of it anymore


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Planted and flooded.










*Species list: *

Alternanthera reineckii ‘mini’

Anubias barteri nana bonsai

Anubias nana 'pinto'

Anubias petite

Blyxa japonica

Bolbitis difformis

Bolbitis heudelotii

Bucephalandra red

Cyperus helferi

Cryptocoryne lucens

Cryptocoryne mollmanii

Cryptocoryne pygmaea 

Eleocharis acicularis ‘mini’

Eriocaulon cinereum

Hygrophila araguaia

Hygrophila pinnatifida

Ludwigia arcuata 

Ludwigia palustris 

Micranthemum monte carlo 

Monosolenium tenerum

Murdannia keisak

Pogostemon erectus 

Riccardia chamdryfolia

Rotala indica ‘bonsai’

Rotala rotundifolia ‘green’

Rotala rotundifolia ‘H’ra’

Schismatoglottis prietoi

Staurogyne repens

Vesicularia ‘Creeping Moss’

Vesicularia ‘Christmas Moss’


----------



## Conort2

Going to be a good one, as always! what are the suckers for on the glass?

cheers

Conor


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Conort2 said:


> Going to be a good one, as always! what are the suckers for on the glass?







A lot of water changes ahead so just leave them there for first month @Conort2 .


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow amazing and what a great planting mate cant wait for this to develop


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> what a great planting mate



Owe it all to the golden ratio Jay... One beer to every five songs to every thirty minutes of planting up 😂

Hey @CooKieS did any of your Snow White survive? Down to two very knackered plants. The rhizome is still intact though so going to see if they can bounce back emersed with a drip of phytohormones at water change, nothing to lose at this point. Interested to know if you had any better luck...


----------



## CooKieS

@Geoffrey Rea actually they didn’t grow and some started to get holes in the older leaves...it seems they started to fail and as I basically didn’t like the look of them anyway I throwed them in the garden. Haha (had won them from an contest so...). Some of my friends had them Melting and dying too...they seem to survive only on emersed setups. As @dw1305 said, the lack of chlorophyll won’t help this plant to thrive ....


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Appreciate the feedback @CooKieS , have heard no success stories this end.

Will see what can be done with them non Co2 limited and close to the lights.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Owe it all to the golden ratio Jay... One beer to every five songs to every thirty minutes of planting up


.......... I might even try aquascaping, now I know the secret. 

I'm a great believer in "_good things come to those who wait_", so I may have to practice the drinking and listening bit first......

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Throwing this out there to answer startup queries in one place rather than via multiple PM’s.


This is the method being used for high light, high Co2, high soil located nutrition and large scale planting in this setup here. Plenty of alternative views on this and not saying this is ‘the’ way, just my way to ensure a single tanks weekly maintenance doesn’t go over an hour and belt off in the wrong direction *after* the startup period.

Setup is started with lighting at 100% (can hear members screaming at their screens already). There is no controller, no ramp up, no alternative with this style of lighting so don’t consider it controversial, simply adapting to what it is - an on/off lighting unit. Six hours of light at 100% just like it used to be with halides and T5’s, nothing new. Personally prefer running tanks this way, gets the tank on its feet more efficiently and know the lighting isn’t a variable, fixed duration and intensity.

Rescapes also usually done in late autumn/winter to avoid ambient daylight during startup. Penalty here is plants tend to come in smaller from the grow houses this time of year but seasonal change doesn’t matter if using in-vitro pots.

Soil is nutrient rich, in this case ADA Amazonia on top of powersand advance, but would happily use alternatives like Tropica or Prodibio with ground up root tabs on the base glass topped with soil. Plants don’t care about branding, just sufficient nutrition. Substrate is started off rich to accommodate to the nutrition needed under high light from the get go. 

*Schedule for the first 28 days*

Water changes, water changes, water changes. Not interested in marketing blurbs or any particular company’s recommendation on startup procedure. Don’t have a problem with any products that are supposed to help but find them unnecessary if water changes are being executed.

Doing daily for the first four weeks and use all that waste water to keep our drains clear in the colder months, so it gets a double use. It is a chore and appears wasteful. However, it has proven to pay dividends in the longer run and water is a cheap consumable. You’re getting a reset daily, taking out tannins leaching from the wood, organics, algal spores - good bang for your buck for simply switching some water out.

Water changes before Co2 on or after the photo period, whatever works best around your life commitments.

Obviously changing this amount of water with anything other than tap water isn’t really feasible. Rain water, might not rain enough, RO, would drive you mad on a large setup and waste even more water.

Water column fertilisation for startup period; potassium source (K2SO4 for example) and a meagre amount of micros daily just before lights on. That’s it. Trust that everything else is soil located and this leaves the water column as lean as possible until plant growth demands a change up.

Also dose glutaraldehyde (2%) during the first 28 days dosed at 1ml per 50l then discontinue after the startup.

Co2... get it right beforehand. Drop checker, pH pen monitoring, whatever. Used to fill the tank when empty with filters and skimmer running, place several drop checkers around the tank and assess how much of a ramp up is needed to get lime green at that water volume. Once this is known (e.g 3 hours 15 minutes ramp up needed at that injection rate) set the timer appropriately before lights come on ready for startup and leave Co2 settings alone. Obviously adding in hardscape/soil reduces the overall volume of water at finalisation of the scape; this means your dissolved Co2 rate will be higher than needed (yellow drop checker) on your first day and you can gingerly dial it back through the first month or leave it fixed and see if it ends up sufficient after some plant growth. Also depends on the planting type but overshooting to begin with and working your way back is less detrimental to falling short on Co2 demands. No livestock during this period so no potential of harm. Do this enough times with the same equipment you can usually eye ball it.


Aeration outside the photoperiod at the beginning:





Stop this once a good amount of plant growth is established. Then it’s possibly a matter of dialling Co2 in once again as the night time aeration won’t be bringing dissolved gases back to atmospheric equilibrium everyday.

Skimmers and lily pipes that create a vortex can help manage a baseline of surface agitation for gas exchange:






Filters left alone for the first 28 days. Simple. It is literally just 28 days of water changes then moving on with your life.


If this were a non soil setup using an inert substrate then this method is mostly obsolete.


----------



## not called Bob

nice looking scape, 
is the adhesive something like pu18 with added aquascape tax?


----------



## Jayefc1

Thans for the tips mate


----------



## PARAGUAY

Good introduction to the set up regime


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

not called Bob said:


> nice looking scape,
> is the adhesive something like pu18 with added aquascape tax?



JBL Pro Haru adhesive is a polymer-based adhesive. JBL state it is free from silicone, solvents, halogens, acids and isocyanates.

PU18  contains isocyanates, which I understand are very strong irritants.

They both work via polymerisation by humidity and the byproduct of that curing process for JBL Pro Haru is methanol being released, which is harmless.

PU18 has it stated on the data safety sheet that it is not safe for aquarium use, which I assume is because of isocyanates.

Putting aside any monetary difference, they are fit for different purposes so would say they are non comparable products.


----------



## not called Bob

Interesting, 
It's used very heavily by pond keepers and reefers. I have only used it and left to cure so never applied in a wet setup, it's keeping the pond windows in place and the sump baffle, but again these were left to cure before adding water.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

not called Bob said:


> Interesting,
> It's used very heavily by pond keepers and reefers. I have only used it and left to cure so never applied in a wet setup, it's keeping the pond windows in place and the sump baffle, but again these were left to cure before adding water.



Have no experience of the pond or the reef scene @not called Bob so you would be in a far better position to answer the original question. All I can really say from a passing glance at the data sheets is one product is pushed as aquarium safe, the other explicitly states it is not.

Personally, I’m pretty risk adverse so when only using one tube of adhesive on the job I’m inclined to lean towards a product that’s sold for aquarium use as it’s such a small job. Would imagine ponds and reef setups would use a lot of adhesive to setup though.


----------



## CooKieS

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Throwing this out there to answer startup queries in one place rather than via multiple PM’s.
> 
> 
> This is the method being used for high light, high Co2, high soil located nutrition and large scale planting in this setup here. Plenty of alternative views on this and not saying this is ‘the’ way, just my way to ensure a single tanks weekly maintenance doesn’t go over an hour and belt off in the wrong direction *after* the startup period.
> 
> Setup is started with lighting at 100% (can hear members screaming at their screens already). There is no controller, no ramp up, no alternative with this style of lighting so don’t consider it controversial, simply adapting to what it is - an on/off lighting unit. Six hours of light at 100% just like it used to be with halides and T5’s, nothing new. Personally prefer running tanks this way, gets the tank on its feet more efficiently and know the lighting isn’t a variable, fixed duration and intensity.
> 
> Rescapes also usually done in late autumn/winter to avoid ambient daylight during startup. Penalty here is plants tend to come in smaller from the grow houses this time of year but seasonal change doesn’t matter if using in-vitro pots.
> 
> Soil is nutrient rich, in this case ADA Amazonia on top of powersand advance, but would happily use alternatives like Tropica or Prodibio with ground up root tabs on the base glass topped with soil. Plants don’t care about branding, just sufficient nutrition. Substrate is started off rich to accommodate to the nutrition needed under high light from the get go.
> 
> *Schedule for the first 28 days*
> 
> Water changes, water changes, water changes. Not interested in marketing blurbs or any particular company’s recommendation on startup procedure. Don’t have a problem with any products that are supposed to help but find them unnecessary if water changes are being executed.
> 
> Doing daily for the first four weeks and use all that waste water to keep our drains clear in the colder months, so it gets a double use. It is a chore and appears wasteful. However, it has proven to pay dividends in the longer run and water is a cheap consumable. You’re getting a reset daily, taking out tannins leaching from the wood, organics, algal spores - good bang for your buck for simply switching some water out.
> 
> Water changes before Co2 on or after the photo period, whatever works best around your life commitments.
> 
> Obviously changing this amount of water with anything other than tap water isn’t really feasible. Rain water, might not rain enough, RO, would drive you mad on a large setup and waste even more water.
> 
> Water column fertilisation for startup period; potassium source (K2SO4 for example) and a meagre amount of micros daily just before lights on. That’s it. Trust that everything else is soil located and this leaves the water column as lean as possible until plant growth demands a change up.
> 
> Also dose glutaraldehyde (2%) during the first 28 days dosed at 1ml per 50l then discontinue after the startup.
> 
> Co2... get it right beforehand. Drop checker, pH pen monitoring, whatever. Used to fill the tank when empty with filters and skimmer running, place several drop checkers around the tank and assess how much of a ramp up is needed to get lime green at that water volume. Once this is known (e.g 3 hours 15 minutes ramp up needed at that injection rate) set the timer appropriately before lights come on ready for startup and leave Co2 settings alone. Obviously adding in hardscape/soil reduces the overall volume of water at finalisation of the scape; this means your dissolved Co2 rate will be higher than needed (yellow drop checker) on your first day and you can gingerly dial it back through the first month or leave it fixed and see if it ends up sufficient after some plant growth. Also depends on the planting type but overshooting to begin with and working your way back is less detrimental to falling short on Co2 demands. No livestock during this period so no potential of harm. Do this enough times with the same equipment you can usually eye ball it.
> 
> 
> Aeration outside the photoperiod at the beginning:
> 
> View attachment 157456
> 
> Stop this once a good amount of plant growth is established. Then it’s possibly a matter of dialling Co2 in once again as the night time aeration won’t be bringing dissolved gases back to atmospheric equilibrium everyday.
> 
> Skimmers and lily pipes that create a vortex can help manage a baseline of surface agitation for gas exchange:
> 
> View attachment 157457
> 
> 
> Filters left alone for the first 28 days. Simple. It is literally just 28 days of water changes then moving on with your life.
> 
> 
> If this were a non soil setup using an inert substrate then this method is mostly obsolete.


Exactly what I’ve failed to do...I couldn’t keep up with daily water change in such big tank, Cheerio for that.

Anyway , will follow your nice setup with interest mate!


----------



## Deano3

CooKieS said:


> Exactly what I’ve failed to do...I couldn’t keep up with daily water change in such big tank, Cheerio for that.
> 
> I may quit the hobby soon anyway, will follow your nice setup with interest mate!


Why you say tou may quit mate and i agree large frequent water changes are hard work.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> couldn’t keep up with daily water change in such big tank



It is the biggest PITA of a larger scapes life quite frankly. But haven’t used any product that can compare at keeping a tank free and clear through its first steps.

Know that I make jokes about the big blue barrel living in the living room for the first month, but if it wasn’t there, pre-filled, motivation would slip and it wouldn’t get done. It’s such an eye sore in here that it serves as a daily reminder to get it done so we only see it once per week thereafter.

Hoping you can turn things around @CooKieS because knowing you it’s an amazing scape 😎


----------



## Jayefc1

The water changes are the PITA but the hard work pays off in the long run I like the B.B.B (big blue barrel) motivational tactics can imagine the wife wants it gone much quicker than you if she is anything like mine 😀


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> B.B.B (big blue barrel) motivational tactics can imagine the wife wants it gone much quicker than you if she is anything like mine 😀



Around here @Jayefc1 either the barrel is gone after 28 days or you end up in it with a missing persons report getting filed...

Highly motivational stuff!! 😂


----------



## Jayefc1

Yeap as I said just how it would be here mate the B.B.B would be gone and so would i most likely swimming with the fishes so to speak


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

“Now show me wax on, wax off...” 

“Now show me water out, water in....”

“Come back tomorrow.”


----------



## Wolf6

Respect for your discipline! I usually only do daily changes the first week, then week 2 every other day, week three twice per week, week 4 once or twice, depending on how its going and from then on once per week. And by that time I'm pretty fed up already. Cant imagine doing it every day for 4 solid weeks! Looking forward to seeing this beauty develop


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @Wolf6 

Sticking to it for the first month and should be in good stead, unless our youngest son chucks a bunch of Jammy Dodger biscuits in the tank again 😂 Tends to impede progress a little...


----------



## Jayefc1

Oh I'm pretty sure he is much more creative than another biscuit gate


----------



## Siege

Jayefc1 said:


> Oh I'm pretty sure he is much more creative than another biscuit gate



I‘ve had a chat with him. Next one will be chocolate cake! 😂

I’ve been supplying the cake for a while to lure Geoffers into a false sense of security, then just as the new scape is going well..........


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Already had Lego in there 😂 It’s only five days old.

Did ask him what Santa would say if he saw that, “NICE!!!” is what he would say apparently.


----------



## Sammy Islam

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Already had Lego in there 😂 It’s only five days old.
> 
> Did ask him what Santa would say if he saw that, “NICE!!!” is what he would say apparently.


Lego is cool, adds  unique textures and structure..... Lego hardscape? 🤣


----------



## Jayefc1

Siege said:


> I’ve been supplying the cake for a while to lure Geoffers into a false sense of security, then just as the new scape is going well..


Ohhhh chocolate cake would be messy im not sure though I probs think Geoffers son is cleaver he has been taking the cake off you @Siege and eating it letting you believe he has a stash lol


----------



## Siege

Jayefc1 said:


> Ohhhh chocolate cake would be messy im not sure though I probs think Geoffers son is cleaver he has been taking the cake off you @Siege and eating it letting you believe he has a stash lol



Nah that cake is so big just one slice and it’ll be like cocoa pops milk. i‘ll get my better half on a new cake at the weekend just to keep him topped up just in case!

Another month of water changes Geoffers would love that! 😂


----------



## Jayefc1

On a serious note chocolate cake ummmm


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Siege said:


> I’ve been supplying the cake for a while to lure Geoffers into a false sense of security, then just as the new scape is going well..........



Think I’ll be advising the kids to not accept sweets from strangers at this rate 😂 




Sammy Islam said:


> Lego is cool, adds unique textures and structure.....



And a dash of colour. The Lego men strewn amongst the crypts in the darkness of the cove looked pretty creepy though, looked like a crime scene.




Jayefc1 said:


> Ohhhh chocolate cake would be messy im not sure though I probs think Geoffers son is cleaver he has been taking the cake off you @Siege and eating it letting you believe he has a stash lol



Jay you have kids, how long does chocolate cake last in your house? 😂  Since biscuitgate the kids have got older and the idea of having any confectionery stored in the cupboards/fridge rather than immediately devoured is but a mere memory.


----------



## Jayefc1

I





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Jay you have kids, how long does chocolate cake last in your house? 😂 Since biscuitgate the kids have got older and the idea of having any confectionery stored in the cupboards/fridge rather than immediately devoured is but a mere memory.


It dont even make it out the shop not alone to the house we end up paying for an empty box 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Already had Lego in there 😂 It’s only five days old.
> 
> Did ask him what Santa would say if he saw that, “NICE!!!” is what he would say apparently.



Maybe he’s giving you some hints for your next scape!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

A quick update given we’re on day seven and a quarter of the way there.







Continued water changes with daily K and micros as previously discussed.
The inlet/outlet positions changed for a different flow/distribution pattern. Co2 is now heading back left to back right to give the stems a bump.

One deviation, some form of bacteria/fungus on one piece of wood. 





Have found it tends to progress faster with night time aeration early on so no aeration last night. Gently knocked off the wood and siphoned out at WC this morning. Bit of phyton git added after WC this morning and triple dose of glutaraldehyde a few hours before the photoperiod for day seven’s water change, put the brakes on that one. Will let it clear up then lift the lily pipes at night again.

Appear to be diatom free at this stage, they’re not going to fair well as a photoautotroph in lean water dosing and their twenty-four hour doubling rate is being hindered by daily WC’s. Plants should hopefully be matured enough after the 28 days to outcompete any undesirables and can begin a mid-lean fertilising regime with confidence.

Anyway, that’s it. All pretty boring at this stage and 21 more WC’s to go... yay!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick update. Trucking along:





Stems have woke up:





Also a good week of root development: 





Might be able to shift over to the final dosing regime in another week, will see what shape we’re in with another seven days of growth.


----------



## Karmicnull

Looks lovely!  
Beginner question:  How do you get the water from your big blue barrel into the tank?  Pump?

Cheers,
  Simon


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @Karmicnull

At this point a little pump that doesn’t cause too much disturbance is ideal as the plants are still rooting themselves.

Using this at the moment:





A little submersible pump and a 12mm eheim shepherds hook cut with a hacksaw to make it straight. Makes fill ups slow and controlled:





Once things are settled in will go back to the usual method of refill. I use a 3000lph Eheim pump, 16/22mm piping and a spray bar pointing up the front glass:





200 litre refill in 4-5 minutes, don’t take your eye off the ball if you do rapid refills for obvious reasons. Pic is from a quick WC on the old scape; sand out, clean glass and drain the tank with two eheim intakes at each front corner, refill and replace cosmetic sand. 25 -30 minutes total if barrel is pre-filled.


Do WC’s however it is easiest for you really. Some prefer mixer taps and hoses. I use the barrel as it allows the water to be dechlorinated and temperature checked prior to refill.


----------



## Karmicnull

Comprehensive response, and really helpful - thanks! I love the spray bar pointing at the glass.  It's very clear why you can spend just six hours a month on maintenance vs. my two and a half hours every weekend!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

There is one more water change type I can add if the running of the spray bar too low risks upsetting the substrate. Partial simultaneous fill and drain.

Position the spraybar midway up the front glass.

If using a barrel it’s a fixed volume of water being pumped in at a fixed rate. Using the same hoses draining to the exact same height drop also gives you a fixed rate of draining.

The two tape marks on the tank represent two time markers:





Start draining the tank... The upper tape signifies when to trigger the pump on whilst simultaneously draining. The lower tape mark signifies when to remove the draining and just let it refill. The pump runs dry a couple of mm’s off the maximum capacity every time.

If only doing a WC and short on time this is better than nothing and takes minutes. 220 litres out and in with a lot of detritus knocked off leaves and removed by the two draining pipes at the same time.

Good bang for your buck.


----------



## Karmicnull

Nice.  That appeals to my inner mathematician!


----------



## PARAGUAY

Marc at mdfish tanks seems a good way home made tubing with on off tap straight from tank to sink drain . Then straight from temperature set tap  to tank and amount of dechlorinator at same time water entering sideways so no substrate disturbance. Think he needed it when he got 30ish plus tanks


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Merry Christmas everyone!

Hopefully your morning is full of joy. Here Dad has already been directed to put ten badly instructed toys together, had the router out to amend a slightly lacking prefab Foosball table, driven the garage to pick up AAA batteries to avoid world war 3, cooked the traditional sausage rolls for breakfast Christmas morn and is now peeling spuds and veg to fuel the minions come lunch time.

But no days off for good behaviour, no early parole:





The wife has a ‘REALLY!!! ON CHRISTMAS DAY?!?’ look plastered on her face 😂 😂 😂 Turns out the appropriate response is not, “but the blue barrel will be gone in another week...”

If looks could kill 😆 

Reckon if it weren’t for the fact she’s looking forward to the Christmas Dinner being prepared by bugalugs here my end would have been upside down in the BBB this morning. Planning - yah!

Enjoy your day folks!


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Merry Christmas everyone!
> 
> Hopefully your morning is full of joy. Here Dad has already been directed to put ten badly instructed toys together, had the router out to amend a slightly lacking prefab Foosball table, driven the garage to pick up AAA batteries to avoid world war 3, cooked the traditional sausage rolls for breakfast Christmas morn and is now peeling spuds and veg to fuel the minions come lunch time.
> 
> But no days off for good behaviour, no early parole:
> 
> View attachment 159387
> 
> The wife has a ‘REALLY!!! ON CHRISTMAS DAY?!?’ look plastered on her face    Turns out the appropriate response is not, “but the blue barrel will be gone in another week...”
> 
> If looks could kill
> 
> Reckon if it weren’t for the fact she’s looking forward to the Christmas Dinner being prepared by bugalugs here my end would have been upside down in the BBB this morning. Planning - yah!
> 
> Enjoy your day folks!


 hope you had a great day the tank is really coming along nicely there and i love the dedication  

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @Deano3 hope you had a great Christmas too!

Here... There’s obviously bitter BBB feelings bubbling up though...





A packet of the old arch nemesis was left on the counter top opened, very suspicious 😒 

She knows what she is doing, she knows....


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Day 28:





Final daily water change of startup, switching to weekly from here on. Eheim Liberty HOB temporarily installed for Purigen, still a fair bit of tannins leaching from the wood. Can rotate several bags in the HOB until the tannins desist.

Did have one hiccup, noticed there was wholesale leaf melt just under a week ago. Checked the tap TDS and it had plummeted from the usual 450-500ppm to barely above 300ppm. Wouldn’t really be a shocker if the water company was scrubbing the water, there’s been severe flooding here. Drone shot of the River Great Ouse around the corner:





Full macro EI added to the WC water to remedy and seemed to do the trick, tank corrected itself but lost a bit of colouration on the stems.

First month of growth has been okay though:













Stock have settled in fine too and appear happy with the layout:









And that’s startup done and dusted. Looking forward to getting to first trim and saying farewell to the big blue barrel.





Happy New Year to everyone on UKAPS and hope you’re all enjoying your tanks wherever you may be!

😉


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just for posterity, one month proper:













Hang on back with Purigen removed, Eheim skim replaced with the Vuppa, anubias moved to the right and some trident popped in under the bolbitis on the left.

Also have a fair few berried Yellow Sakura Shrimp so the clean up crew will be getting fresh troops soon:





Hope everyone is staying safe and well through this new hard lockdown...


----------



## Jayefc1

Looking good for a month old mate just shows you get out what you put in quiet literally fresh water every day  lol 😆


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Looking good for a month old mate just shows you get out what you put in quiet literally fresh water every day lol 😆



It’s a hassle doing daily water changes for the first four weeks. It’s also not problem free, here’s a list of everything this tank has experienced in its first month in the order it has appeared:


fungus/bacteria that melted leaves
minor amount of filamentous diatoms
diatoms
wild TDS change in tap water source, potential fluctuations of tap water parameters day to day
green spot algae
green hair algae
hydra
staghorn
BBA

It’s not a problem that these things have occurred, just that at the one month mark after daily WC’s they’ve ceased or become an acceptable level of ‘problem’ to solve moving forward. Tank is growing well, producing lots of healthy new growth, so the remaining old growth that may have been affected can just be pinched out. Only thing I’ve done to abate all the above issues is push water through and pinch off leaves infrequently. Pretty mindless level of care.

Tank is pearling away tonight, clear water, loads of o2.... At this point that effort has worked out economical as I’m not having to spend month two fire fighting persistent issues. Going with the ramp down style of WC’s has led to more problematic startups here, just want an easier time these days.

After all that water.... Drop down to lean dosing and one water change per week, minor amounts of trimming and trust the system to get on.


----------



## Siege

I wish there is a ‘super like button’ 👍😃

Ive said a few times we make a rod for our own back with the 50% water change, daily gradually decreasing advice.
It is easy to remember so the trouble is people stick to it too bloody rigidly! 😂


----------



## Jayefc1

@Siege I think you will find the loooovvvveeee button is the super like button 👇


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Siege said:


> I wish there is a ‘super like button’ 👍😃



Figure it’s worth bleating on about @Siege as pushing water through for four weeks in heavily planted high tech works well.

It repeatedly performs better than cutting that removal period short during startup for arbitrary reasons and the common rationale for ramp down doesn’t make much sense, we see plenty of tanks go way off course in month one doing that, but admittedly not all. Much simpler than going on to investigate glutaraldehyde, hydrogen peroxide and clean up crew as a solution in month two though.


----------



## CooKieS

Lovely mate!


----------



## Deano3

looks great Geoffrey brilliant growth, can i just ask so you think its a lot more beneficial to have high lights and daily water changes to get rid of them waste organics in the first month rather than lower lights and 50% for week 1 then every other day then every 3rd day then once a week ? so the plants whilst transitioning are still giving off them waste organics for at least 3-4 weeks ?

also when you do the daily changes is it literally a quick change or do you keep ontop of the glass and pipes and plants , i imagine if needed and just a bit a day ?

Dean


----------



## Inked_aqua

Nice! following this one


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> can i just ask so you think its a lot more beneficial to have high lights and daily water changes to get rid of them waste organics in the first month rather than lower lights and 50% for week 1 then every other day then every 3rd day then once a week ? so the plants whilst transitioning are still giving off them waste organics for at least 3-4 weeks ?



Oh dear, buckle up... I think there are many roads to Rome Dean. The goal in my head is simple though, get the plants to the point they’re pouring out oxygen throughout the photoperiod and make that the standard as quickly as possible. It’s a good generalisable goal, healthy tanks consistently have above adequate levels of o2 available over 24 hours for the ones I’ve measured... That is my definition of a healthy system and during the startup period it isn’t happening without your help.


There’s a ton of assumptions operating here that need clarifying though, so let’s unpack it a bit.


Start with water. This is the recent full tap water report here:










In an ideal world these would be consistent parameters, but maybe it’s not sometimes. But I have faith in the testing methods of the water company infinitely more than hobby grade test kits in general. For argument sake let’s just say they’re accurate for our purposes for the majority of the year, historically they haven’t changed much year to year. These are the parameters of the water being put in, maybe there’s something important to those parameters, open to discussion.

However, in 28 days of changing 215 litres per day this totals 6020 litres put through this recent 300 litre tank at startup. If we went descending, week 1 daily (1505 litres), week 2 every other day (645 litres), week three twice (430 lites) and week 4 once (215 litres) then it would be 2795 litres total. How much decay can we remove with those 3225 additional litres? How much more efficient is the system having that decay/proteins/carbohydrates removed daily? How much less pressure is that on bacteria/archaea whilst surface area is being populated? I’m positing a lot of questions because quite frankly I don’t know the answers, nor do I need to, but removing workload from the system whilst it’s getting on its feet seems beneficial from experience and lowers oxygen demand - hence just go daily for four weeks then handover. That’s the first bit of what I consider a beneficial practice at startup.

Generally though, the first point is you’re consistently removing waste that would otherwise be in the system using up dissolved oxygen and the second is you’re bringing the parameters back to a standard point everyday as much as possible until the tank doesn’t need that intervention. 28 days of this seems to be enough.

On top of what is in the tap water we have rich substrate. Choose your poison here, this one is an ADA system but that is what was in the shed. Use other brands and grind up root tabs on the base glass, use rich soil and cap it with sand, whatever. Point is there’s access to substrate based nutrients. This just leaves three things to input daily into the water column during startup:


a potassium source e.g. potassium sulphate
a minor amount of micros
Co2

Just to be clear we’re heavily planting here with a mixture of fast and slow growers. It’s important there is a tank full of plants as a requisite to going high light from the get go otherwise why are we inputting so much nutrition in the substrate? Using all that light and banking that much in nutrient storage assumes you want rapid growth of lots of plants at startup to get out of a trouble prone period of a tanks life with poor dissolved oxygen levels. We use all those plants for the oxygen factories they are to get to that above adequate o2 as a standard. During startup we can make up for them not quite performing yet by running *night time aeration* for a continual top up of gases at atmospheric equilibrium.

So simply @Deano3 I see no downsides to flushing the tank thoroughly for the first 28 days and prefer a fixed level of light to work with for my goals, it also makes setting Co2 much more simple as well.




Deano3 said:


> also when you do the daily changes is it literally a quick change or do you keep ontop of the glass and pipes and plants , i imagine if needed and just a bit a day ?



Water changes at the same time each day, I do those in the morning before the Co2 clicks on. Plants are then growing in as consistent parameters as possible. In the 28 days the glass got wiped twice. Pipework/lily pipes cleaned at the end of startup, along with a clean out of the filters, change out the prefilter sponge and floss. That’s it for general maintenance in month one, but perhaps the important bit is removing any stray leaves floating about as and when - lighten the load any way possible.


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Oh dear, buckle up... I think there are many roads to Rome Dean. The goal in my head is simple though, get the plants to the point they’re pouring out oxygen throughout the photoperiod and make that the standard as quickly as possible. It’s a good generalisable goal, healthy tanks consistently have above adequate levels of o2 available over 24 hours for the ones I’ve measured... That is my definition of a healthy system and during the startup period it isn’t happening without your help.
> 
> 
> There’s a ton of assumptions operating here that need clarifying though, so let’s unpack it a bit.
> 
> 
> Start with water. This is the recent full tap water report here:
> 
> View attachment 160038
> 
> View attachment 160039
> 
> In an ideal world these would be consistent parameters, but maybe it’s not sometimes. But I have faith in the testing methods of the water company infinitely more than hobby grade test kits in general. For argument sake let’s just say they’re accurate for our purposes for the majority of the year, historically they haven’t changed much year to year. These are the parameters of the water being put in, maybe there’s something important to those parameters, open to discussion.
> 
> However, in 28 days of changing 215 litres per day this totals 6020 litres put through this recent 300 litre tank at startup. If we went descending, week 1 daily (1505 litres), week 2 every other day (645 litres), week three twice (430 lites) and week 4 once (215 litres) then it would be 2795 litres total. How much decay can we remove with those 3225 additional litres? How much more efficient is the system having that decay/proteins/carbohydrates removed daily? How much less pressure is that on bacteria/archaea whilst surface area is being populated? I’m positing a lot of questions because quite frankly I don’t know the answers, nor do I need to, but removing workload from the system whilst it’s getting on its feet seems beneficial from experience and lowers oxygen demand - hence just go daily for four weeks then handover. That’s the first bit of what I consider a beneficial practice at startup.
> 
> Generally though, the first point is you’re consistently removing waste that would otherwise be in the system using up dissolved oxygen and the second is you’re bringing the parameters back to a standard point everyday as much as possible until the tank doesn’t need that intervention. 28 days of this seems to be enough.
> 
> On top of what is in the tap water we have rich substrate. Choose your poison here, this one is an ADA system but that is what was in the shed. Use other brands and grind up root tabs on the base glass, use rich soil and cap it with sand, whatever. Point is there’s access to substrate based nutrients. This just leaves three things to input daily into the water column during startup:
> 
> 
> a potassium source e.g. potassium sulphate
> a minor amount of micros
> Co2
> 
> Just to be clear we’re heavily planting here with a mixture of fast and slow growers. It’s important there is a tank full of plants as a requisite to going high light from the get go otherwise why are we inputting so much nutrition in the substrate? Using all that light and banking that much in nutrient storage assumes you want rapid growth of lots of plants at startup to get out of a trouble prone period of a tanks life with poor dissolved oxygen levels. We use all those plants for the oxygen factories they are to get to that above adequate o2 as a standard. During startup we can make up for them not quite performing yet by running *night time aeration* for a continual top up of gases at atmospheric equilibrium.
> 
> So simply @Deano3 I see no downsides to flushing the tank thoroughly for the first 28 days and prefer a fixed level of light to work with for my goals, it also makes setting Co2 much more simple as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water changes at the same time each day, I do those in the morning before the Co2 clicks on. Plants are then growing in as consistent parameters as possible. In the 28 days the glass got wiped twice. Pipework/lily pipes cleaned at the end of startup, along with a clean out of the filters, change out the prefilter sponge and floss. That’s it for general maintenance in month one, but perhaps the important bit is removing any stray leaves floating about as and when - lighten the load any way possible.


Thanks for that very helpful write up, it obviously works wonders i may try this way next time as when its written down like that and you see the volume of water compared to the other way it  it makes sense.

So basically for month one apart from changing water and wafting plants and maybe wipeing glass once or twice thats it ? No long filter sessions or anything until end of the 28 days, and you said you dose some micros and pottasium and get the co2 dialled in (i still struggle with this got my drop checker lime green when co2 on 3 and half hours prior to lights but getting more yellow by time goes off)

Very helpful Geoffrey thanks mate

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> So basically for month one apart from changing water and wafting plants and maybe wipeing glass once or twice thats it ?



Pretty much Dean. The water is so hard here that for all intents and purposes it’s stable. It puts the initial high ammonia levels to bed and shifting the volume through has also shifted all the tannins out and water is extremely clear now too.


----------



## GHNelson

Geoff said!
But perhaps the important bit is removing any stray leaves floating about as and when - lighten the load any way possible.👍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Six weeks





Big change of heart with this setup. It has been transitioned to RO since the last post targeting GH5 / KH1 as the starting point. Coupling this with very lean dosing, daily 3.4ppm K and Fe EDTA 0.06ppm. Water changes are 40% weekly. The rest is dependent on the substrate and feeding of the livestock. We’ll see how it performs.

Big clear out of stems, particularly the Murdannia where it’s been thinned out to a tenth of what had grown in as it went rampant. Here’s half from the left side:





Fresh tops planted with side shoots present. Good flow established through the back corners again. H’ra, Rotala green and Arcuata cut back to below two inches, tops disposed.





Carpet had a trim as well. See what new growth under these parameters looks like. Particularly keen to see what can be done with Arcuata and Macrandra in this tank. The pogo erectus had also stalled prior to the change in parameters.

On a separate note... The wife asked for a lamp on the computer desk now that the kids are being homeschooled... Roger Roger 10-4.... Not what she was expecting but everyone is a winner so no foul:





Little ten litre test tank. Also RO remineralised with inert substrate, five days old. Bit of freedom to have a play with parameters outside of the 1200 and to get use out of a new set of milligram scales (old one finally quit).

All in all looking for a happy medium with parameters in the 1200 to grow the majority of species in good form for the longer term more slowly.





Looking for a backdrop of stems in great form and colour at the back of this scape. Will let things settle in for a while before making any further adjustments.


----------



## GHNelson

Lovely....tanks!


----------



## DTM61

Geoffrey Rea said:


> targeting GH5 / KH1 as the starting point.


Wow, are you trying to get very soft water then harden it later, Geoff? My readings are lower than that and I'm trying to harden the water for fish. 

Unbelievable what you've done in six weeks mate, I think you belittle your intelligence and make it look easy. It's not that easy for most and your success lies in your experience. A credit to you. 👍


----------



## CooKieS

That's some happy plants Geoff, loving all the textures, colors and shapes in this 1200, will be stunning once stems will grown in again.

And those simulans are perfect, adds a nice contrast!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Thanks folks.



DTM61 said:


> Wow, are you trying to get very soft water then harden it later, Geoff?



Just trying to find what works @DTM61 The majority of species in there thrive just fine in the very hard tap here. But this time around it would be nice to throw some species in that are a little more tricksy for a stretch. The first three I would like to get growing well repeatedly in softer parameters are Ludwigia arcuata, Eriocaulon cinereum and Rotala macrandra. All three I’ve had mixed results with before now and would like to understand a little more what makes these species tick. Can try out more as time marches on. The big one is growing under nitrate restriction, this was never happening using tap, it was just descending throughout the week from water change to water change. It worked okay though for a compromise.




CooKieS said:


> That's some happy plants Geoff, loving all the textures, colors and shapes in this 1200, will be stunning once stems will grown in again.
> 
> And those simulans are perfect, adds a nice contrast!



They are doing alright @CooKieS and the algae problems have been predominantly on the hardscape so far. Did have a flare up of Staghorn after softening the water but it’s easily cleared off the rocks. Most of the rocks that are showing are freestanding and can be taken out to clean up if needed.

Do love Green Neons in larger numbers mate and like to feed them well. Trying to incorporate that into nutrient input. Then there’s the pooping aspect to attend to.... now that there’s no sand being periodically removed along with all their poop should really exchange that maintenance time with hoovering the hair grass with the spare filter stuffed with floss.




hogan53 said:


> Lovely....tanks!



Cheers @hogan53 

The AS600 Cryptocoryne setup for the White Clouds is running pretty much maintenance free so can focus more on the 1200 and little test tank.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

2 months...

Going low even on RO:





New RODI unit has worked out a great investment being much faster and efficient.

Feels like the tank is getting somewhere now. There’s a few bare spots left to try out some different plants but will get the stems some height and coloured up first. Arcuata is improving since dropping KH and GH. Planted some Pogostemon helferi just over a week ago but it’s looking a bit ropey. As is the Bolbitis difformis, hasn’t grown at all beyond a few small roots attaching since startup. Will give them both some time.

Can begin regular pruning in earnest this month and shape things out. Pinch the Pinnatifida leaves to get them small and tight for starters.





Hope everyone is staying safe and well.


----------



## papa_c

Hey Goeff, looking good!

Live just round the corner and likewise RO definitely seems easier than Cambs liquid rock. 

What paramenters do you remineralise the RO to?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

papa_c said:


> What paramenters do you remineralise the RO to?



In-tank is currently sitting at 2KH 5GH.


----------



## Deano3

Stunning Geoffrey, the carpet and colours look amazing, all the greens just pop. The whole tank is stunning congratulations on this one.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Half time change out...


*Species out: *

Cyperus helferi

Monosolenium tenerum

Murdannia keisak

Vesicularia ‘Creeping Moss’

*Species in:*

Hydrocotyle tripartita

Pogostemon helferi

Rotala macrandra






The Cyperus helferi was adding nothing and getting blasted with co2 mist made the tips prone to BBA.

The Monosolenium tenerum has won the worst plant choice award though, never kept it before. Only had to look at the stuff and it exploded into hundreds of pieces all over the tank. Will be removing bits of it over the coming months no doubt.

Murdannia keisak was growing rampant so had to go, too much hassle and the Vesicularia ‘Creeping Moss’ became a poop magnet beyond anything sensible to maintain so it’s been cut too.

Macrandra in and the entire back left has been brought back to a low height so it grows in together:





Also brought the back right stems down at the same time, replanting the tops to keep flow around the tank even.

The tripartita is hidden under the pinnatifida, so should creep out in random places. The helferi wasn’t in best health going in. Will see if it makes it as one clump and will disperse it once established if it does.

See how it grows in but should be a more appropriate planting with lots of colour. Never too late to change your mind.

Hope you’re all enjoying your weekend 😉


----------



## aquascape1987

This really looks amazing. Out of interest, how quickly did you ramp up the photo period after planting? I’m assuming  that you haven’t used a dimmer because of the use of ADA lights?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Six hours, 100% from the first day @aquascape1987 . Do note the daily WC’s for the first month and ADA substrate system though.


----------



## aquascape1987

Wow, so never any increase on 6 hours?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Not really found any benefit going over six hours for the goals set here. Have run longer photoperiods in the past though.


----------



## aquascape1987

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not really found any benefit going over six hours for the goals set here. Have run longer photoperiods in the past though.



Well I think the results speak for themselves here. Looks great Geoffrey 👍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Picking up the pace now. Tank has noticeably shifted up a gear this week:


























Bit more reassuring to go for big trims when everything is growing more readily.

Another month of thumb and finger nail pruning to bush everything out then can begin teasing the colour out of the stems.

A lot of the Yellow Sakura Shrimp are no longer berried:





Begun to see a ton of babies about the tank so their colony is on the up and up which is also a plus:





Most importantly the Green Neons appear happy in this setup so far:





Of the four setups they have been with us, think this one will offer the best home. Get there in the end.


----------



## Vijay_06

Top-notch!

How do you ensure that there is not a lot a detritus build up in the dwarf hairgrass carpet? Do you take any special care while vacuuming the substrate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just gently waft a hand over the carpet as the tank is draining at weekly water change @Vijay_06 .

It’s also about using a wide diameter of piping for draining, it gives good/fast draw towards the siphon so all the crud gets sucked up. This tank is drained with 16/22mm tubing and an eheim shepherds hook inlet. Waft the whole tank to put everything into suspension, then drain.  Across the year this amounts to a lot of removal without the need to vacuum the carpet.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

3 months:





Background stems being left until the current fert mix in the auto doser runs out, cut the stems into shape, nitrate restrict the water column and enjoy some colour up.


----------



## EA James

Simply perfect @Geoffrey Rea, looks amazing 😍

What moss are you using on the wood? I have some Fissidens Geppi which i like but I'm looking for a more compact growth and yours looks just right 

Cheers, James


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just regular Christmas Moss from Tropica @EA James . The back of the wood on the left has dabs of Riccardia on it but it’s yet to take off in any meaningful way compared to the Christmas moss, give it time.


----------



## EA James

Great, cheers @Geoffrey Rea


----------



## aquascape1987

Looking great Geoffrey. I think the colours look great already IMO!


Geoffrey Rea said:


> cut the stems into shape, nitrate restrict the water column and enjoy some colour up.



This is something I’m looking into at the minute myself. I’m currently dosing EI equivalent with TNC complete, and was thinking of making up some Dry fertiliser with reduced nitrates, to maybe patch into my current fertilisation schedule perhaps 1 week out of every 3 or 4. The idea being that the plants have full EI most of the time, with short breaks of low nitrate to colour the red plants up... But I’m not sure how long the plants will take to respond to the low nitrate periods, and then how long the reddening effect will last. What do you think to this strategy?

Also, would you mix up with no nitrate, or just very low nitrate?


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Looks good, reminds me of an autumn forest.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

aquascape1987 said:


> Also, would you mix up with no nitrate, or just very low nitrate?



What are you trying to achieve? What outcome are you after longer term @aquascape1987 ?

The tank in the above picture currently gets 5ppm of nitrate per week. There’s potentially plenty in the soil and powersand for soil located plants. However, the epiphytes suffer without this water column based 5ppm once in a while. If what you are after is colouration like in the above post you could just lower the dosing.

For example, that could be a bottle of TNC Lite to use alongside TNC Complete. Maybe Monday to Friday TNC Lite and then TNC Complete at the weekends.

Going all in... Once nitrate is entirely omitted from the water column fertilisation several plants will react reasonably rapidly:

- H’ra gets very red from the new growth as does Aragauia.

- Pinnatifida will go very red on its runners and the leaves turn orange but remain large. Pruning the leaves back heavily at this point brings very compact, red leaves.

- The Macrandra will defend itself and grow more red.

- The Arcuata will get orange and have needle sharp leaves that are shorter than it’s green, softer growth.

You can keep going with this for quite a while but sooner or later the epiphytes in the tank will require more comprehensive water column fertilisation. This is the trouble with planting a mixed bag then doing this process, there’s always something demanding your attention.

You’re also usually looking at starting this process in a setup that’s been running a few months to lean out the soil. You’ll note that at startup a lot of the soil space was filled with lava rock, this was to limit the total amount of soil used to two bags. Not much in a 1200 and gives less soil to lean out.

This process isn’t for everyone and even seems to annoy some folks. If you don’t like limiting growth then you definitely won’t like bonsai... This is all for aesthetic merit rather than plant health.


----------



## aquascape1987

Geoffrey Rea said:


> What are you trying to achieve? What outcome are you after longer term @aquascape1987 ?



I suppose what I’m trying to achieve long term is a good balance between aesthetics and plant health. Ideally if I could strike a good balance between limiting nitrates every so often to get the reds and oranges to colour up, without upsetting the rest of the plants too much. That’s why I was considering alternate full fat and then low nitrate dosing.

Im also growing a mixed bag, with rotala green, macandra, H’ra, limno.. Aromatica, ludwigia senegalensis, didiplis Diandra, together with HC Cuba and Glossotigma.




Geoffrey Rea said:


> For example, that could be a bottle of TNC Lite to use alongside TNC Complete. Maybe Monday to Friday TNC Lite and then TNC Complete at the weekends.


I’ll have a think on the use of TNC lite, although I have a lot  of dry ferts here, from a previous EI attempt. I didn’t realise that it would be this way around with the ratio of lite to full fat. I thought it might be more like, a week on lite and then 2 or three on full... Do you not think that this would get the desired result?

it’s going to be a while for me anyway before I start playing around and reducing anything  as the scape has only been planted about 3 weeks. So plenty of time to ponder on this.

My next challenge is to do a bit of research on trimming methods to get those lovely lush bushes with the stems, something I’ve never mastered thus far, even though I’ve grown healthy stems.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

aquascape1987 said:


> I suppose what I’m trying to achieve long term is a good balance between aesthetics and plant health.



Above all else, excellent Co2 application. If that’s not in place then meddling with fert regimes is off the table. In the time spent working in an aquascaping store with customers, would estimate nearly 90% of the tanks shown to us had suboptimal Co2 application. This goes for myself as well @aquascape1987 , constantly checking to see if a tanks Co2 is where it should be. It’s rare that it can’t be improved is the point. The difference to a tank between this being spot on and anything else is dramatic in and of itself.


----------



## aquascape1987

Cheers for the advice Geoffrey. Lots of food for thought and lots of great inspiration here for me  in this thread as well 😁.




Geoffrey Rea said:


> constantly checking to see if a tanks Co2 is where it should be. It’s rare that it can’t be improved is the point.



And there was me thinking I was paranoid, still pH profiling and tweaking 3 weeks after set up. 🙄 Now I have external validation, and can tell the other half with conviction that the hourly pilgrimage to the tank, pH meter in hand ,is, in fact, completely necessary 😂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hello 👋🏼


----------



## Jayefc1

Tank looks amazing mate not been getting the updates and just looked through the last 4 weeks what a change really nice mate


----------



## Paulus

Awesome!

Still using the 2 eheim filters on this tank?
And what do you use for the CO2? Dont see a inline diffusor or anything else.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @Jayefc1 it’s getting there, just waiting for a few things to gain height and running the stems through trimming cycles. Good to see you back on here bud, was wondering how you were getting on. 



Paulus said:


> Still using the 2 eheim filters on this tank?
> And what do you use for the CO2? Dont see a inline diffusor or anything else.



Hi @Paulus 

Yep, trusty Eheim Pro3e 600T and Pro4 600 still doing the filtering business admirably. There’s an inline diffuser on the Pro3e.


----------



## Paulus

Nice. Any specific inline diffuser or brand?
Still thinking here if i will switch from the aquamedic 1000 reactor to a inline version which is smaller etc.


----------



## Jayefc1

@Geoffrey Rea imalways on mate just lurking in the shadows how are you and the family?
So how many trims have the stems had so far won't take long for them.to colour up and Bush right out mate


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Paulus said:


> Any specific inline diffuser or brand?



Co2 Art inline diffuser @Paulus .

It gives a fine mist around the tank so worth considering that before dropping your reactor if you prefer clear water.




Jayefc1 said:


> @Geoffrey Rea imalways on mate just lurking in the shadows how are you and the family?
> So how many trims have the stems had so far won't take long for them.to colour up and Bush right out mate



Trucking along here @Jayefc1 and trust all is well there. Lurking allowed around here 😆

Running the trimming in amalgamative fashion at the moment. So each trim cutting the top third and just poking them back in amongst the other stems rather than into soil. This is working out nicely for Rotala green, macrandra, palustris and H’ra. Large bushes of each species. Growth of the erectus and arcuata is much slower though so just leaving them be plonked in the soil. Been through about three cycles so far.





There’ll be a decent wedge of helferi soon to close up the cavern a bit and mask the wood, took an age to get going but it’s on the move now. After a few colourful weeks will hit the reset and go full replant into the soil with the bunches, return to mid-lean dosing of the water column.

Glad to hear the nitrate descending is working for you, it worked really well on the last scape in this 1200 too. Your tank looks fab Jay 😍


----------



## Jayefc1

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Trucking along here @Jayefc1 and trust all is well there. Lurking allowed around here 😆


All is good mate a busy house at the moment but it takes your mind off thing and little light lurking never harmed anyone lol 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Running the trimming in amalgamative fashion at the moment. So each trim cutting the top third and just poking them back in amongst the other stems rather than into soil. This is working out nicely for Rotala green, macrandra, palustris and H’ra. Large bushes of each species. Growth of the erectus and arcuata is much slower though so just leaving them be plonked in the soil. Been through about three cycles so fa



Does the uneven growth not do your head in when you just reinsert the top third of the steam I know it was me do you stick to the 7 trims rule and replany or just do it by sight I know I need to do a replant but need time and need the stems to recover a lot before that happens (and thats only if my fingers stop.itching to rescape)


Geoffrey Rea said:


> There’ll be a decent wedge of helferi soon to close up the cavern a bit and mask the wood, took an age to get going but it’s on the move now. After a few colourful weeks will hit the reset and go full replant into the soil with the bunches, return to mid-lean dosing of the water column.


I love helferi such a pretty plant.i also like the wood being exposed in your hardscape too though gives it really deep dimension will be interesting to see how prominent the wood is when its fully grown in the contrast wood reds and greens will be very interesting to say the least 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Glad to hear the nitrate descending is working for you, it worked really well on the last scape in this 1200 too. Your tank looks fab Jay 😍


It did work really well and I think the vivids helped a lot i have turned them down now as the growth was too much to keep on top off but as I said above really.getting the itch to rescape fancy a iwagumi in there the hemianthus micranthemoides is a beautiful plant but it is growing like a weed and taking over a little just thinking rocks mc and grasses of different heights and textures


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> little light lurking never harmed anyone lol



😂



Jayefc1 said:


> Does the uneven growth not do your head in when you just reinsert the top third of the steam I know it was me



Not so much now no. The last scape was clear blocks of species at exact heights so got that out of the system.



Jayefc1 said:


> do you stick to the 7 trims rule and replany or just do it by sight I know I need to do a replant but need time and need the stems to recover a lot before that happens



Well this is sort of the point. Not a fan of rules, looking at how specific setups behave that month. Once one round has passed, want to mix the stems together e.g. H’ra and Rotala green. If one species is accelerating ahead can just reach in with finger and thumb then pinch the stem to deny access to the soil to slow growth. Obviously this is under very lean dosing so it’s always walking a line, but it’s effectively trimming the stem at the base rather than the top to impact growth speed. You know my only rule Jay, one hour per week per setup. This sort of stuff is in service of that.



Jayefc1 said:


> will be interesting to see how prominent the wood is when its fully grown in



Covered in plants basically 😂 The whole point was to have a ton of differing locations with different conditions to try stuff out. Not very good at considering the hardscape element, just see it all as ‘plant attachment space’.



Jayefc1 said:


> It did work really well and I think the vivids helped a lot i have turned them down now as the growth was too much to keep on top off



This is not an option with Solar RGB’s. Keen to know how well replenishing the substrate with tabs and oscillating between very lean to mid lean water column dosing can extend the scape. It’s primarily to manage the workload and confident enough to commit to the idea of delivering nutrients specifically by location by certain cues given by plant behaviour.



Jayefc1 said:


> getting the itch to rescape fancy a iwagumi



Whatever you do it’ll be fab @Jayefc1 . Understand the want for a simple Iwagumi. Could do a shallow like the 45F UG tank. Get the iwagumi and less trimming than a whole 1200. There’s a reason why aquascaping showrooms shy away from large carpeted Iwagumi setups.


----------



## Ady34

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hello 👋🏼
> 
> View attachment 165017


Love this shot


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Just over 4 months:






Desperately overdue a prune but too busy at the moment so tank is just getting weekly water changes. The helferi in the right hand cove is growing in very slowly, it will eventually fill up the dark void on the right once it’s height puts it into more light.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Missed the 5 month update. 5 1/2 months:





Tank still desperately needs a trim, still just water changes because of workload and just for fun... pulled my back - yay 😀

Working flat out whilst splayed flat out... It’s going well! 😂

With any luck June will be the month to get the tank straight. All the tanks straight for that matter. A rescape of the AS600 is on the cards and the Blyxa in here would be great as a background plant for the 45F against the UG. Play a bit of musical plants with all the tanks and will do a switch around.

Hope you’re all well and enjoying your tanks 😉


----------



## DeepMetropolis

It has grown in very nicely. Love the full look of it, stunning job!


----------



## Deano3

Looks great with just water changes , hope your back sorts it self out soon mate hate having a back problem  looking forward to see what comes

Sent from my SM-T595 using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Lean dosing forms:












AR mini not so mini. Over a foot tall and breached the surface:









Going to let it run. Hoping it might flower.


----------



## erwin123

Hi Geoffrey, as my AR Minis grow upwards towards the light, I'm finding that the leaves that are closest to the top are getting blasted by a lot of light and getting bright green algae on their leaves which I presume was unavoidable but your AR Minis have no problems whatsoever... do you have any tips?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hi @erwin123 

Going to need more details about your setup to help effectively. You could start a thread and get the thoughts of everyone on the forum? If you’re happier posting on here, go for it.

Need setup details (tank dimensions, light, filtration, Co2/non Co2, dosing, soil/inert substrate), water parameters (if you know), maintenance habits, photo’s (full tank shot to see where in the setup your AR mini is located) and a close up photo of the problem leaves if possible. It’s a lot of details but it helps to rule things out and work holistically 😉


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It’s either mossy Donald Trump or a very stylish Pug with one ear up:





Can’t not see it now either 😂 The scape is ruined! Tear it all down!!!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Yeah... time for a trim 😂


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Yeah... time for a trim
> 
> View attachment 170366
> 
> 
> View attachment 170367


Wow thats amazing  never seen growing out that much and looking so healthy

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Been away this week @Deano3 and redoing the AS600 next week. Left them to grow. Using the plant mass from this one to bump start the next tank, but it went a bit more mental than anticipated.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Leftovers from the big trim:


----------



## Courtneybst

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Leftovers from the big trim:
> 
> View attachment 170641


Wow! That's some seriously impressive leftovers.


----------



## CooKieS

Plant master…congrats


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Meanwhile, back down on the Rea farm… 

Onions 🧅 





The temperature halved very suddenly recently. We were enjoying 28-30C sunny weather and soil temps were very decent. It’s now closer to 15C and soil is remaining quite damp and cool. 

Noticed the first round of onions this season started bolting after the temperature drop so pulled them smaller than would be desirable. The above picture is a quarter of them in total but quite a few of them have bolted.





Wondering if any one else has had a problematic growing season with the backwards season so far?

Even the strawberries have been unremarkable but it’s still early. On the plus side have planted out cottage plants which are getting along and have attracted a lot of bees, dragonflies, aphids, ladybirds and sparrows to the garden.

















They’re a welcome splash of colour when the kids aren’t launching their football into them.


----------



## Courtneybst

You have some beautiful plants Geoffrey! That onion harvest looks amazing.

I too have had issues with this season. Normally by now I'm already harvesting courgettes, gherkins, beetroot, early tomatoes. This year everything is really behind, not by a little but by a lot!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It has been a very weird growing season so far @Courtneybst and beginning to wonder how the rest of it will be. Every year presents its challenges but root development was shocking earlier on, on everything. Reliable soil temperatures haven’t been there.


----------



## CooKieS

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It has been a very weird growing season so far @Courtneybst and beginning to wonder how the rest of it will be. Every year presents its challenges but root development was shocking earlier on, on everything. Reliable soil temperatures haven’t been there.



it’s the same here in France…it’s actually so cold than I lost all my strawberries and my courgettes have lost flowers too…crazy.


----------



## Courtneybst

I don't know how much weight it holdd


Geoffrey Rea said:


> It has been a very weird growing season so far @Courtneybst and beginning to wonder how the rest of it will be. Every year presents its challenges but root development was shocking earlier on, on everything. Reliable soil temperatures haven’t been there.


I don't know how much weight it holds but supposedly there could be some connection to the Grand Solar Minimum which we entered last year. In essence a period of reduced solar activity, although minute for the sun can impact us significantly.


----------



## mort

It's strange here as well, some onions and leeks have bolted (but they still taste the same just don't grow anymore or store very well) as has some kale and lettuce. On the flip side I've never been picking red currants so early and everything is so lush due to all the rain that the flower garden is experiencing serious floppage.
We have lots of bumblebees but very few honey bees and I'm yet to see more than a handful of hover flies but have a slugs abundance.


----------



## jamila169

We've not even attempted much this year, the tomatoes look like it's May, the pepper plants only arrived a week ago , it looks like we'll be stuck with a load of green tomatoes in October again, it's getting harder and harder to justify the greenhouse space


----------



## PARAGUAY

Not veg related but some of my daffodils were flowering in May early June and pests like aphids never had as many even in the hanging baskets which is usually minimal And my slugs still prefer my Sweet Peas to Newcastle Brown Ale!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Noticed the first round of onions this season started bolting after the temperature drop so pulled them smaller than would be desirable. The above picture is a quarter of them in total but quite a few of them have bolted.


It is a common problem, when you have variation in temperature, if you use onion "sets". I usually leave the bolted ones, because the flowers of Onions (and of Leeks) are very popular with bees.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Snail control in the garden: 














Lives under our shed and has stayed with us for a few years now. Surprised to see her out this late in the morning. Most welcome though.

🐌   🦔


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

dw1305 said:


> I usually leave the bolted ones, because the flowers of Onions (and of Leeks) are very popular with bees.



On that front Darrel… Thinking of using the beds for flowers for the rest of the season instead, for the benefit of the bees amongst others.

Anything fast germinating you would suggest @dw1305 ?

Weather is staying warm right now with the occasional thunderstorm so it’s good timing to switch to flower beds.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Anything fast germinating you would suggest @dw1305 ?


_Phacelia tanacetifolia_ is a good one. Personally I really like "Pot Marigolds" (_Calendula officinalis), _dual purpose, popular with bees and quick to flower. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Thank you Darrel, will try both.

_Calendula officinalis _sounds like it would do well in the beds that catch the break of the afternoon shade from the house. _Phacelia tanacetifolia _sounds suited to the beds that get a full day of sun.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Update. Month… blah blah yadda yadda or something:





Tank to the left will be gone soon, just a holding tank for the fish until the 600 is ready for stock.

In this tank… Been dosing N and P in the second half of the photoperiod lately to bump up the moss and epiphytes without soil access. They had a trim and needed the love.

Sort of skipped a beat in this trimming cycle though due to the additional input. Like everyone is equally at an unanticipated height all at once. Overall everything is healthy and that’s what counts in the long run.





Eleocharis looks like it’s freshly planted.

Bonus with growth is it’s a good excuse to play with the trimmings. Used the old Dennerle 10l to try some emersed growth:





Know it’s all utility as a setup devoid of any art, but really just interested in the potential flowering of all the species of late. Really smitten with the flowers in the UG tank. So small and delicate, but beautiful and complex:





Would be nice to see what other surprises these plants have in their emersed forms. So much to see and do with this hobby. As ever, hope you are all enjoying your tanks 😎


----------



## Wookii

_Drumroll_ . . . . and the spam link of of the day is? . . .


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Gone now @Wookii 😂


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Gone now @Wookii 😂



Now my post makes no sense 😂 may as well delete that too!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> makes no sense 😂



Fits right in with the rest of the journal, perfect... 

Hedgehogs, vegetables, occasional tank talk and random nonsensical comments 😂 What’s not to love?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Aww… She’s finally found a partner:





From all the sniffing and grunting can tell it’s going (very) well 😂 

🦔 🦔 🦔 

Goodness knows how you make that happen with all those spikes but good ol’ nature will find a way.


----------



## Wolf6

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Aww… She’s finally found a partner:
> 
> 
> 
> From all the sniffing and grunting can tell it’s going (very) well 😂
> 
> 🦔 🦔 🦔
> 
> Goodness knows how you make that happen with all those spikes but good ol’ nature will find a way.


The females sort of flatten their spikes to allow this. Its much worse for porcupines, there they use urine to soften the spikes. Be glad you dont have those humping in your backyard. More fun facts: Female hedgehogs do often have more then one male, but may have several shortly after eachother. Male hedgehogs wake up from winter sleep one month before females do, and if they find a female still asleep will not wait for her to wake up but.. females do wake up during but usually just go back to sleep after. Yep, nature sure is lovely.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Another month gone by… Thinned out a lot of the background stems, switched some between the 600 and 1200. Required pulling whole plants with roots to free up the soil, a messy affair.

Fair bit of growth leftover:





The back left has been replanted the same, albeit with only a third of the plant mass after thinning:





Right hand side has been replanted with L. arcuata, Limnophila hippuridoides and R. wallichii:





Being right handed the back right corner is a PITA so selected things that are easy to trim and replant quickly.

Front wise still requiring some development and the background stems are yet to make an appearance again:





There’s hardscape to reveal by cutting back or losing a species or two. The Pinnatifida was going rampant, so cut right back whilst the additional N & P was going in so no penalties other than it’s green leafed Pinnatifida for now. Also gave the MC a chance to give it beans:





All from a few little tiny slithers at the point of rescape. Good bang for your buck. Will look good against the Pinnatifida once it colours up again.

The Riccardia chamedryfolia finally woke up too:





Taken it’s sweet time but glad it got there. Can be used to propagate for other areas about the tank now.

See what another month can do for the scape.

Hope you’re all enjoying your tanks too 😎


----------



## Courtneybst

I'm always so impressed by this. You have more trimmings than I have plants in my entire scape 😅. It's looking beautiful though Geoffrey!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Cheers @Courtneybst

Love your Edible Scape FYI 😉 Eating the trimmings… what could be better!


----------



## CooKieS

Impressive trimmings…and plant health! I would love to own an tank this size one day, congrats for the maintenance on this beast mate, this must take quite some time.


----------



## Courtneybst

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Cheers @Courtneybst
> 
> Love your Edible Scape FYI 😉 Eating the trimmings… what could be better!


Thank you! Yeah it's a lot more resourceful haha.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Impressive trimmings…and plant health! I would love to own an tank this size one day, congrats for the maintenance on this beast mate, this must take quite some time.



Would love to see you scape a 1200 Thierry, said this before, pretty darn sure it would be world class 😉

This 1200 isn’t bad at all on maintenance. It really is all in the planning though. The right hand side had Rotala’s before and the wood leans towards the front of the tank - plenty of room for the stems to creep. This buys 1 to 2 weeks extra if you’re feeling too lazy to trim, bit of flexibility.

The species that are intolerant of Co2 fluctuations are close to the lily pipe that puts out the Co2, particularly the R. Macrandra. There’s also the inlet drawing backwards through that corner. It’s locally high in available Co2 mist. Again, when this area gets overgrown you don’t lose the plant form too quickly and you’ll get 1 to 2 weeks of creep before anything punches through the water surface - more flexibility.

All this means is you can plan out all the jobs so it’s restricted to one hour or less. For example, cutting all the stems back one week, then when everything is low down cut the eleocharis carpet the next week (all the hair grass sits on the clear surface and doesn’t end up stuck amongst the stems).

Front of the tank… quite shaded but good circular flow anti-clockwise with the remaining Co2 mist that curls around the wood on the right. Nothing grows quick at the front but neither is it getting unhealthy. Just the epiphytes and moss without soil access to take care of with some freebie N and P when feeding the fish isn’t enough. Time this implementation after resetting the stems so it only affects the lower growth of the stem colouration and form.

All adds up to savings in your effort…




Courtneybst said:


> Thank you! Yeah it's a lot more resourceful haha.



Compost the trimmings to feed the vegetable beds next year here. Cutting out the middle man and picking straight from the tank is a whole other level though 😊


----------



## Ady34

Epic.
That is all.
Wouldn’t say I’m enjoying my tanks at the moment


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ady34 said:


> Wouldn’t say I’m enjoying my tanks at the moment



Well that won’t stand. PM mate.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Butterflies:














The veg growing season has been kiboshed by the mild August weather. But planting out a lot of cottage plants has brought a lot of visitors to the gardens. Hoping others have had better luck growing this year. Onions went well here but not much else:









Managed six bags like above but even strawberries have been hard to yield with the variability in the weather.

On the tank front…





Got lazy. Got a non-Dutch confusion and an even more confused 1200.

9 months:





MC gone, half the Araguaia gone, big wedge of trident fern removed, a load of bonsai gone, three types of mosses removed and Pinnatifida thinned out to a few sprigs. Was only walking passed the tank 😂

Slowly bringing the hardscape back into play, less is more. Almost peeling this scape back into shape.

Background stems are hard at work. Two more cutting sessions and should hit a good moment in this scapes life:





R. macrandra,  L. palustris, Alternanthera Reineckii, R. wallichii, L. hippuridoides and L. arcuata should provide plenty of colour at the back. Would be nice to honour this scape with a decent photo before the twelve month mark.

As ever, hope everyone is enjoying their tanks 😎


----------



## Ady34

Looking great Geoff, wish my tanks were so confused 🤪🤣


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

To be fair Ady the tanks are fine, they know what they’re doing. It’s the caretaker who’s confused 😂


----------



## bazz

Show stoppers!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

@Saman

Rather than bomb your journal with photos will post on here. Total reset of a stem section in pictures…

Gently cut below the substrate to sever roots:









Area cleared:





If the stems are correctly cut from the roots you won’t get any growth reappearing. The roots will breakdown and replanting into the soil will be unobstructed by old growth.

Know the height you want to reset to. Add an inch for burying:





Pick your best stems:





Lay them down so all tips are at the same height:





Cut to desired height:





Replant the section and water change:





This example is with Limnophila hippuridoides that always requires tops replanting to keep it under control.

With H’ra plant in bunches of three, spaced 1-2cm apart. Prune back the top third of growth to encourage side growth and maintain the desired shape. Once cutting back the top third no longer keeps growth beneath the desired height, reset the stem section as above.


----------



## Libba

Geoffrey Rea said:


> @Saman
> 
> Rather than bomb your journal with photos will post on here. Total reset of a stem section in pictures…
> 
> Gently cut below the substrate to sever roots:
> 
> View attachment 174143
> 
> View attachment 174144
> 
> Area cleared:
> 
> View attachment 174145
> 
> If the stems are correctly cut from the roots you won’t get any growth reappearing. The roots will breakdown and replanting into the soil will be unobstructed by old growth.
> 
> Know the height you want to reset to. Add an inch for burying:
> 
> View attachment 174146
> 
> Pick your best stems:
> 
> View attachment 174147
> 
> Lay them down so all tips are at the same height:
> 
> View attachment 174148
> 
> Cut to desired height:
> 
> View attachment 174149
> 
> Replant the section and water change:
> 
> View attachment 174150
> 
> This example is with Limnophila hippuridoides that always requires tops replanting to keep it under control.
> 
> With H’ra plant in bunches of three, spaced 1-2cm apart. Prune back the top third of growth to encourage side growth and maintain the desired shape. Once cutting back the top third no longer keeps growth beneath the desired height, reset the stem section as above.


I like this technique in theory. I'll give it a go next time I reset my stems. Ripping out all of the roots isn't ideal.

Thanks for sharing. I don't see a lot of content about long term scape maintenance.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Libba said:


> I like this technique in theory. I'll give it a go next time I reset my stems. Ripping out all of the roots isn't ideal.



Not keen on disturbing the substrate if it can be avoided. Figure there’s a whole lot we depend on that would rather not be upheaved.

On the other hand, some species need tearing out roots and all, otherwise they can become unruly. Pogostemon erectus being a common one:





That’s less than three weeks worth of fresh rooting. If you tried just cutting roots each time with it you would find replanting into the soil quite challenging. The root system can become so dense in a localised area that it’s a struggle to push the pinsettes in without damaging the top you’re trying to replant.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Interesting month. Was feeling pretty puzzled about the hobby of late so pulled the reigns in on everything. Stopped to have a think. Thought joining the 21st century with an Instagram account might help inspire… mistake. If I see one more slow-mo shot of a pair of scissors, or the widely used slow-mo of a pump bottle dosing a tank, my eyes may in fact projectile vomit all over the screen 🥱

Back to the drawing board… We’re nearly at ten months with this setup and it is usually about now that the rescape thoughts creep in. But funnily enough, not this time around.

Instead focused the thinking towards how you can run Co2 injected indefinitely. For the most part this tank has been running a traditional ADA dosing regime. About a month ago you could see the beginnings of the balance shifting, soil not quite providing and some plants looking tired.

With the unloved Dutch coming down and the White Clouds needing a home they’ve been shipped into the 1200:





Feeding times are much more impressive:





The Green Neons have dropped their shyness and they mix with the minnows quite happily. No aggression, tank is alive with activity and feeding is a joy as not one bit of flake/pellet/live food gets to the substrate.

Back on dosing though and we have a very decent fish load now. Moved to a different fert mix using ammonium nitrate as the N source combined with feeding the stock handsomely and it seems to be going well:





It appears more efficient at this point to shift towards a more Tropica style of dosing and account for fish feeding into the regime, rather than persist with ADA’s lean daily K and micros with frequent application of root tabs.

The epiphytes are also consistently happy, now that they’re not relying on infrequent mercy dosing of KNO3:





There was a bit of transitioning needed with the shift to NH4NO3, some stem plants shed their older leaves with newer growth coming back in its place pretty quickly. This is why the growth is all over the shop at the moment, nothing has been trimmed in earnest and just leaving everything to adjust. Also won’t be bothering with colour up sessions of stems anymore, consistent daily dosing should format the whole tank to set colours for the foreseeable. Trading colouration for consistency.

Nearly all the plants from the Dutch takedown went to a friend. Did keep some Hyptis lorentziana, Ludwigia tornado, Rotala Pearl and Syngonanthus macrocaulon though:













Looking forward to seeing them grown in and apparent, still tucked away for now and recovering from the disruption.





So… It’s no scapers tank but it’s a joy to maintain thanks to access, the stock are happy and it’s a nice mix. Seems as good a scape as any for the Green Neons and the White Clouds to live out their days. Majority of the Green Neons are from a batch introduced in 2017, seems only fair to give them a permanent home moving forward.

The whole house is going in the direction of permanence rather than ceaseless upheaval and transformation. Setting up a simple long term reef setup, the UG project is hopefully going to keep trucking for as long as it lets and the little 10l Dennerle terrarium will be left to grow.











A good spread of projects to keep the heart content.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Your scapes have really come in to their own, all look amazing and really healthy. 
Hope you're going to start a journal for the reef setup. It might even be an idea to add a dedicated marine forum to UKAPS.


----------



## John q

Tim Harrison said:


> It might even be an idea to add a dedicated marine forum to UKAPS.


You'll get no complaints from me 😃



Geoffrey Rea said:


> So… It’s no scapers tank but it’s a joy to maintain


You obviously have the knowledge and skills to maintain healthy tanks,that's a fact. Sometimes we need to look, take stock, and enjoy what we've created... so... enjoy 😉


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> Hope you're going to start a journal for the reef setup. It might even be an idea to add a dedicated marine forum to UKAPS.



You may find me on a very popular reef forum posting photos to see if they can be brought over to the freshwater side 😂😝😂

Would be lovely to be able to chat marine with this lovely community. Finding that a lot of folk do both sides of the hobby. There’s a lot of methods to be traded from both sides also, so a marine section on the forum gets a vote from me… You can never have too much knowledge and experience on a forum.



John q said:


> Sometimes we need to look, take stock, and enjoy what we've created... so... enjoy 😉



It may seem silly John but when putting this latest scape together it was for the 30 minutes you get at sunrise and sunset in spring and autumn. The house is east/west facing and each side catches the light in morning and evening. Whenever possible I grab a coffee and watch the tanks from the kitchen doorway at these times. This is what you get:





Lights are off at these times as they’re set to be on when the solar is producing to run them. Natural light only. Never gets old and the fish are at their most beautiful to watch. Not apparent in this photo but they shoal around the tank in one big group during this limited time.


----------



## John q

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It may seem silly John but when putting this latest scape together it was for the 30 minutes you get at sunrise and sunset in spring and autumn.


Nope, seems logical to me. The strange thing (I won't say silly) is that lots of people will never experience that feeling.


----------



## Fiske

That opportunity to watch your fish in natural sunlight is not to be missed.
Absolutely loverly.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Geoffrey Rea said:


> … to see if they can be brought over to the freshwater side


May the force be with you...


----------



## bazz

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You may find me on a very popular reef forum posting photos to see if they can be brought over to the freshwater side 😂😝😂
> 
> Would be lovely to be able to chat marine with this lovely community. Finding that a lot of folk do both sides of the hobby. There’s a lot of methods to be traded from both sides also, so a marine section on the forum gets a vote from me… You can never have too much knowledge and experience on a forum.
> 
> 
> 
> It may seem silly John but when putting this latest scape together it was for the 30 minutes you get at sunrise and sunset in spring and autumn. The house is east/west facing and each side catches the light in morning and evening. Whenever possible I grab a coffee and watch the tanks from the kitchen doorway at these times. This is what you get:
> 
> View attachment 174771
> 
> Lights are off at these times as they’re set to be on when the solar is producing to run them. Natural light only. Never gets old and the fish are at their most beautiful to watch. Not apparent in this photo but they shoal around the tank in one big group during this limited time.


And to think I've been sitting here in the dark until the the tank lights come on at 12.00 before opening the blackout curtains for the last 16 years.


----------



## Wolf6

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Interesting month. Was feeling pretty puzzled about the hobby of late so pulled the reigns in on everything. Stopped to have a think. Thought joining the 21st century with an Instagram account might help inspire… mistake. If I see one more slow-mo shot of a pair of scissors, or the widely used slow-mo of a pump bottle dosing a tank, my eyes may in fact projectile vomit all over the screen 🥱
> 
> Back to the drawing board… We’re nearly at ten months with this setup and it is usually about now that the rescape thoughts creep in. But funnily enough, not this time around.
> 
> Instead focused the thinking towards how you can run Co2 injected indefinitely. For the most part this tank has been running a traditional ADA dosing regime. About a month ago you could see the beginnings of the balance shifting, soil not quite providing and some plants looking tired.
> 
> With the unloved Dutch coming down and the White Clouds needing a home they’ve been shipped into the 1200:
> 
> 
> 
> Feeding times are much more impressive:
> 
> 
> 
> The Green Neons have dropped their shyness and they mix with the minnows quite happily. No aggression, tank is alive with activity and feeding is a joy as not one bit of flake/pellet/live food gets to the substrate.
> 
> Back on dosing though and we have a very decent fish load now. Moved to a different fert mix using ammonium nitrate as the N source combined with feeding the stock handsomely and it seems to be going well:
> 
> 
> 
> It appears more efficient at this point to shift towards a more Tropica style of dosing and account for fish feeding into the regime, rather than persist with ADA’s lean daily K and micros with frequent application of root tabs.
> 
> The epiphytes are also consistently happy, now that they’re not relying on infrequent mercy dosing of KNO3:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a bit of transitioning needed with the shift to NH4NO3, some stem plants shed their older leaves with newer growth coming back in its place pretty quickly. This is why the growth is all over the shop at the moment, nothing has been trimmed in earnest and just leaving everything to adjust. Also won’t be bothering with colour up sessions of stems anymore, consistent daily dosing should format the whole tank to set colours for the foreseeable. Trading colouration for consistency.
> 
> Nearly all the plants from the Dutch takedown went to a friend. Did keep some Hyptis lorentziana, Ludwigia tornado, Rotala Pearl and Syngonanthus macrocaulon though:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing them grown in and apparent, still tucked away for now and recovering from the disruption.
> 
> 
> 
> So… It’s no scapers tank but it’s a joy to maintain thanks to access, the stock are happy and it’s a nice mix. Seems as good a scape as any for the Green Neons and the White Clouds to live out their days. Majority of the Green Neons are from a batch introduced in 2017, seems only fair to give them a permanent home moving forward.
> 
> The whole house is going in the direction of permanence rather than ceaseless upheaval and transformation. Setting up a simple long term reef setup, the UG project is hopefully going to keep trucking for as long as it lets and the little 10l Dennerle terrarium will be left to grow.
> 
> 
> 
> A good spread of projects to keep the heart content.


My passion for the hobby has periods of disinterest (just doing the minimal to keep things going) and periods of intense energy where I feel like getting 3 more tanks to do everything I want to. I've learned to deal with this the way you just put it, set up tanks as if they would have to run with minimum effort indefinitely. Pick a simple dosing regime, stem plants that dont require weekly trimming/maintenance to look good and just accept some plants arent meant for that sort of tank. This has given me a lot more peace of mind, enjoyment and spare time to do other stuff I enjoy. In the end, many people forget its about enjoyment, observing and looking at the fish playing or the sunlight enhancing everything, instead of thinking 'is that some algae? Does that need trimming? Is that some deficiency I spot there?' etc. But it takes a while to get into that frame of mind. I'm noticing many parallels with my other hobby, gardening, with the high maintenance / regular fertilising / deadheading type of gardening or the sort of gardening I enjoy, which is mostly leave things be, fertilise only once per year, cut back everything once per year and not bother deadheading but instead choosing plants for every time of year rather then having to invest time to prolong flowering etc.   The balance of how much time and effort you want to invest vs the point where it becomes detrimental to your enjoyment or detrimental to the tank (or garden or whatever you enjoy doing), finding that balance and keeping it, thats what makes or breaks the fun, for me at least


----------



## PARAGUAY

@Wolf6  Spot on nothing like that compliment when a visitor or relative says "tank looks good or amazing" even though we are not satisfied with it keeps the mojo going. 🙂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

bazz said:


> And to think I've been sitting here in the dark until the the tank lights come on at 12.00 before opening the blackout curtains for the last 16 years.



I still try to position tanks out of direct sunlight @bazz , the 1200 is towards the centre of the room. The light finding it’s way in directly for longer periods is a spring/autumn feature. Hence why most startups/rescapes on these journals are in summer/winter when there isn’t a prolonged period of light angled at the tanks. When it is though, nice viewing in the evenings:


----------



## Paulus

I noticed a photo with the output of a tube mounted to the light stand. I couldn't find the used dosing system/pump in this topic via the search.
So i was wondering: which pump/system is connected on the other side of that tube?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Paulus said:


> So i was wondering: which pump/system is connected on the other side of that tube?



D-D/H2Ocean/Kamoer auto doser:


----------



## Zeus.

Geoffrey Rea said:


>


Great scape and from the pic is on par with Green Aquas tanks IMO, keep up the momentum as I found large tanks can be demanding on you at times


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick and dirty thirty minute scape in the Aquarium Gardens dojo:





Forgot how much fun it is to work against the clock. It’s nice because you’ve not got the time to overthink it. Alas, committed to the current scape so this is the closest we’ll get to scratching that rescaping itch… 😔


----------



## Courtneybst

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Quick and dirty thirty minute scape in Aquarium Gardens dojo:
> 
> View attachment 175274
> 
> Forgot how much fun it is to work against the clock. It’s nice because you’ve not got the time to overthink it. Alas, committed to the current scape so this is the closest we’ll get to scratching that rescaping itch… 😔


Love it! It's so bold.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Uninvited guest in the 1200. No idea how/when it arrived:





Life or death to the Riccia…


----------



## shangman

Life! 😍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

shangman said:


> Life! 😍



That’s +1 vote for life. Does seem rude to not accept a free gift from nature doesn’t it?

Just waiting for the death squad votes from folks who’ve had it take over a tank 😂


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> That’s +1 vote for life. Does seem rude to not accept a free gift from nature doesn’t it?
> 
> Just waiting for the death squad votes from folks who’ve had it take over a tank 😂



I suspect 'life' will be your only option now, given the reports I've read, removing it will be like putting the toothpaste back in the tube!


----------



## Wolf6

Geoffrey Rea said:


> That’s +1 vote for life. Does seem rude to not accept a free gift from nature doesn’t it?
> 
> Just waiting for the death squad votes from folks who’ve had it take over a tank 😂


I'd go for death, with surgical precision, as otherwise it will soon be everywhere


----------



## John q

You could always adopt a middle ground approach, anything that stays attached is allowed to live, anything that detaches and floats gets the firing squad.


----------



## Garuf

You can kill it with excel, treat it like an algae and brush on…


----------



## Conort2

I don’t have to tell you how fast that stuff takes over @Geoffrey Rea i say remove it before you have a riccia dedicated scape.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

It’s currently in one big clump floating in the trident leaves. Could get a net under it with filters off.

Luckily take pictures frequently to look at growth patterns. It first appears on 26th September:





Surprised to have missed it.



Conort2 said:


> I don’t have to tell you how fast that stuff takes over @Geoffrey Rea i say remove it before you have a riccia dedicated scape.



I know. It is death to the riccia… ☠️


----------



## GHNelson

I like it!!!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

GHNelson said:


> I like it!!!







Your’s if you want it @GHNelson ? 





It was all pearling like a good’un so all headed straight to the surface once displaced.


----------



## GHNelson

I will take it...if your just gonna throw it in the bin?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Sure thing.

PM an address Hoggie and will get it sent 😉


----------



## Deano3

Love following your scapes Geoffrey so inspiring so thanks for all the hard work you put in and thanks for sharing , i have a small dooa pot can i ask what is the nano lights you have on terrarium as i have seen people use on the dooa pots ?

Thanks Dean

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk


----------



## GHNelson

Geoffrey Rea said:


> D-D/H2Ocean/Kamoer auto doser:
> 
> View attachment 174799


Very organised!!! .......


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> i have a small dooa pot can i ask what is the nano lights you have on terrarium as i have seen people use on the dooa pots ?








They are Aqualighter Pico lights @Deano3 

They attach to the glass using a magnet and have a USB power connection. Not very powerful, but at the same time they’re doing the job.




GHNelson said:


> Very organised!!! .......



It doesn’t last very long though… 😂 😂 😂 

Periodic house keeping helps.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hyptis lorentziana and Limnophila hippuridoides have successfully gone emersed:













It’s a miracle they haven’t dried out in this house. Now considering giving the R. macrandra, L. palustris and L. arcuata a whirl growing emersed too.





Would save on some trimming and be a nice change. Just wary the reason it’s not done the usual ‘crisp and dry’ is because the central heating hasn’t been on yet as it is currently mild and damp here.


----------



## John q

Its cold, miserable and wet up north, enjoy your last remenats of summer.
Tank looks spifing as per 🤗


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

John q said:


> Its cold, miserable and wet up north, enjoy your last remenats of summer.
> Tank looks spifing as per 🤗



From the North @John q , that’s good wholesome weather that mate 😉


----------



## Tim Lee

Beautiful tank and plants.
Was going to ask how you stop the emersed growth going crispy but see you state it normally does. Is there an accepted method for stopping it doing so?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Lee said:


> Beautiful tank and plants.
> Was going to ask how you stop the emersed growth going crispy but see you state it normally does. Is there an accepted method for stopping it doing so?



Not really got a clear cut answer @Tim Lee 

A friend has her house at pretty much the same temp and relative humidity as this place without issues growing emersed. 

Have tried spraying emersed growth with RO water in a spray bottle, but the leaves become tatty and prone to mould. You can get DOOA wabi-kusa mist spray that wards this off. There’s also ultrasonic foggers that use an atomiser disc to produce mist that will cover the surface of the water. Good way to raise local humidity. How you sensibly do that in an aquarium filled to the brim though, not sure.


----------



## Tim Lee

Thanks for the reply, have a couple of echinodorous that just shoot for the sky then go crispy after a while. Wondered if I was missing something.
Mentioned elsewhere am a marine enthusiast by experience and education so really great to have such experience on the forum so willingly shared.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not really got a clear cut answer @Tim Lee
> 
> A friend has her house at pretty much the same temp and relative humidity as this place without issues growing emersed.
> 
> Have tried spraying emersed growth with RO water in a spray bottle, but the leaves become tatty and prone to mould. You can get DOOA wabi-kusa mist spray that wards this off. There’s also ultrasonic foggers that use an atomiser disc to produce mist that will cover the surface of the water. Good way to raise local humidity. How you sensibly do that in an aquarium filled to the brim though, not sure.


I've done it you just have to place it behind some plants to hide it and I tywraped it on a screw from a light holder. But my initial thought was to put it on a stick that could put into the soil.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Lee said:


> Thanks for the reply, have a couple of echinodorous that just shoot for the sky then go crispy after a while. Wondered if I was missing something.



Instinct is to say it’s proximity to the lighting units that does it. However, have had echinodorus sp. growing out the water in a summer tub, getting blasted by the midday sun at the height of summer, in dry heat and do just fine. No dried leaf edges.

Difference is there’s good, continual air flow outside. Could be that it gets locally too warm near the lights without some air movement maybe. Also, being in close proximity to the light could also be driving the plant hard with effectively unlimited Co2 being emersed. Can your fert regime and soil keep up with demand? Regular root tabs underneath your swords is worth a shot if you’re not doing so already. Allows you to target them. This whole argument assumes your lights are close to the emersed leaves of your swords, when for all I know, you’ve got them suspended a couple of feet above the tank though 🤷🏻‍♂️



Tim Lee said:


> Mentioned elsewhere am a marine enthusiast by experience and education so really great to have such experience on the forum so willingly shared.



Reverse is true too…!

Welcome any feedback/suggestions/wisdom you may have to share from the marine side 🙏🏽



DeepMetropolis said:


> I've done it you just have to place it behind some plants to hide it and I tywraped it on a screw from a light holder. But my initial thought was to put it on a stick that could put into the soil.



Considered this (putting an ultrasonic mist generator directly in the tank) but concerned about what the livestock may experience getting too close. Ideally would have it in a separate body of water, cascading down into the tank, such as in a hang on back unit. Top up the reservoir as and when. Helps if you know you want to do this upfront as you can design it in rather than trying to retrofit the solution. Green Aqua use foggers pretty well and completely hide them so it’s aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## PARAGUAY

I put a load of cuttings in a inch of tank water in washing up bowl left outside and forgotten .The Bacopa Hygro.species quickly reached top of bowl and monte carlo formed a mat. Some nice days but cold nights so suspect air flow is reason


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Considered this (putting an ultrasonic mist generator directly in the tank) but concerned about what the livestock may experience getting too close. Ideally would have it in a separate body of water, cascading down into the tank, such as in a hang on back unit. Top up the reservoir as and when. Helps if you know you want to do this upfront as you can design it in rather than trying to retrofit the solution. Green Aqua use foggers pretty well and completely hide them so it’s aesthetically pleasing.



Yes I was wondering that myself but it doesn't seem to bother the fish. I only run it for a few hours a day. I hid it behind some wood/plants you only need to have some space clear above it.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Yes I was wondering that myself but it doesn't seem to bother the fish. I only run it for a few hours a day. I hid it behind some wood/plants you only need to have some space clear above it.



Got these arriving tomorrow @DeepMetropolis :









Will stick it in a corner behind the plants and see how it works. Livestock can’t contact the mister and may be able to customise the lid for more efficient output.

Want to get the back wall of the tank entirely emersed. However, with central heating, dehumidifiers drying washing at night etc it won’t make it without a helping hand. Got to be worth a try.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Got these arriving tomorrow @DeepMetropolis :
> 
> View attachment 175695



Cool box where you got it from?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Cool box where you got it from?



From Jeff Bezos. It’s this one by Ensenlong.

Smallest suction cup style fish/shrimp hatchery that came up on a search.

(Link wouldn’t work but fixed now. Hopefully you can see it)


----------



## Tim Lee

Thanks again for the info, not to hijack your thread but below is pic of tank. Superfish 90 with leds so (crispy) leaves are actually beyond the light! 
Low tech and adding tnc 1ml a day, may well up it and add more root tabs.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Mister and little box combo works:













Box lid acts like a splash guard and you can focus the mist in the direction you want.

Can now let the back wall grow emersed, then prune out the front to bring out the colour and the shape again. Give the tank a new vibe.


----------



## Garuf

Well it is Halloween, seems rude to not have a spooky tank accessory


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Lee said:


> Thanks again for the info, not to hijack your thread but below is pic of tank. Superfish 90 with leds so (crispy) leaves are actually beyond the light!
> Low tech and adding tnc 1ml a day, may well up it and add more root tabs.
> View attachment 175708



You can’t hijack this thread @Tim Lee …

We’ve had dialogue about vegetables and lawns. Watched as two ADA Solar RGB’s were used to propagate vegetables in a pandemic. Laughs, jokes, gear reviews and even the occasional journal post about the actual scape 😂

Post away buddy without a second thought, not precious about journals. They’re a means of talking to good folk 👍🏽

As for the swords… no light and heat rising from the passive cooling of the light unit is unfavourable. On the plus side you can grow new leaves pretty quick so don’t be afraid to the cut the ones that are past their prime.



Garuf said:


> Well it is Halloween, seems rude to not have a spooky tank accessory



Precisely. Also the kids don’t know that there’s a Bluetooth speaker hidden under the cabinet and their dear old dad has designs on how halloween will go down this year 🎃 👻

They’re old enough now to take a fright and laugh it off…. Hopefully… 😝


----------



## Tim Lee

😅 Thanks for the re-assurance.
Brilliant, love Halloween angle!


----------



## CooKieS

Lovely mist! Brillant idea…as always…
May I ask where did you buy the mist maker and how is the quality? Seems difficult to find a nice one these days  thanks


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Lovely mist! Brillant idea…as always…
> May I ask where did you buy the mist maker and how is the quality? Seems difficult to find a nice one these days  thanks



From Jeff Bezos again. It’s this one by FITNATE.

It is identical to the DOOA unit but a third of the price.

DOOA:






FITNATE:





There is no discernible difference in quality or design between these two units. The discs will need cleaning or replacing regardless of which ultrasonic mist maker you buy. Not had long enough to gauge this one @CooKieS but would imagine it’s lifetime will depend upon how it is used.


----------



## CooKieS

Haha thanks Geoffrey , I love Dooa stuff but wouldn’t buy anything more than their glass products…the rest is just too expensive to justify.
Will take a look on your A***on mist maker


----------



## Wookii

Are there any issues with increased room humidity/damp/evaporation with these things?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Are there any issues with increased room humidity/damp/evaporation with these things?



Not yet really. But there could be. Mate’s mister on their terrarium locally discoloured the wall behind it.

400ml/hour evaporation the unit is rated at. In my head it was the splashing that would increase that rate by pinging droplets about the place, hence using the lid on the little breeder box to control this so only mist pours out.





It works and will be hidden behind the growth soon.

Have a chamber on the autodoser filled with RO and just manually replace as and when currently. Only running it for an hour a day at the moment though @Wookii . Plan is to do 5 minutes every hour on a timer, then will match the evaporation with the autodoser replacing with RO.

As the plants all grow emersed they should capture the moisture as well as intending to raise the lights and let the back wall go rampant with growth.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not yet really. But there could be. Mate’s mister on their terrarium locally discoloured the wall behind it.
> 
> 400ml/hour evaporation the unit is rated at. In my head it was the splashing that would increase that rate by pinging droplets about the place, hence using the lid on the little breeder box to control this so only mist pours out. It works.
> 
> Have a chamber on the autodoser filled with RO and just manually replace as and when currently. Only running it for an hour a day at the moment though @Wookii . Plan is to do 5 minutes every hour on a timer, then will match the evaporation with the autodoser replacing with RO.
> 
> As the plants all grow emersed they should capture the moisture as well as intending to raise the lights and let the back wall go rampant with growth.



Will be interested to read how you get on when the central heating gets switched on - could be a good solution if it stops the emersed growth drying out.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Will be interested to read how you get on when the central heating gets switched on - could be a good solution if it stops the emersed growth drying out.



Will keep you updated. Emersed has never worked in this room over winter before so it is hopefully a step forwards.


----------



## Deano3

That looks cool 😎  always have like misters, creates a great effect and if helps the plants drying out thats even better.


----------



## Ady34

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Precisely. Also the kids don’t know that there’s a Bluetooth speaker hidden under the cabinet and their dear old dad has designs on how halloween will go down this year 🎃 👻
> 
> They’re old enough now to take a fright and laugh it off…. Hopefully… 😝


what could possibly go wrong Geoff, terrified kids beside a glass box……

Tank is looking great and the mister is a great find.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Slowly tweaking this setup ready for the emersed growth along the back wall:





Sorted the foreground for starters, finger and thumb prune. Not much else though yet. Did start nipping the trident fern back to get some wood visible on the left hand side, but there’s still plenty to be removed. It is under there, somewhere. For now you can at least see the Buce on the left side again though.

Expecting a shift in demands as the L. palustris and L. arcuata get topside. Just starting:









There’s better contrasts to be had by making the groupings towards the front simple, like removing the pinnatifida from the Bolbitis for a cleaner look.

Not a clue how it will look in a month from now though so avoiding removing too much. However, the mister is doing its job and even the Hyptis is growing side shoots that haven’t dried to a crisp:


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Nearly two weeks with the mister/breeder box combo and can recommend it to anyone struggling with humidity for emersed growth:









New growth is healthy above the surface. A few leaves crisped up on the Hyptis so replaced the old timer with one that has 18 separate on/off inputs per day. Comes on every hour for ten minutes during the day, every two hours for ten minutes during the night. Makes full use of the full 18 timer inputs available and has stopped any crisping up of leaves.





Tank still needs trimming into shape, will start suffering from circulation related issues otherwise. But a different dosing regime has slowed the pace and is buying time as it’s a busy month ahead. Dosing equivalent of ADA and Tropica TPN+ on alternate days. Coming to the one year mark and this seems to suit the tank since dropping root tabs as a source of nutrient availability.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Great that it turned out so well love the look of the stems. I think I'm going to change the routine of my mister. it was intended just for the looks in the fist place, and for some orchids on the branches.


----------



## mort

Just think what the average tank containing white cloud mountain minnows looks like, it probably has a castle in it, then look what yours live in. They have to be the luckiest minnows there are. It's no wonder they are so vibrant.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

A minor trim on this tank isn’t what it used to be…





Gonna blunt the scissors at this rate 😆


----------



## Wookii

Nothing quite like the feeling of throwing £100 worth of aquarium plants on the compost heap! 😂


----------



## Deano3

Thats made ne laugh 🤣🤣 i am the same as @Wookii said i hate tossing plants in bin or compost but sometimes just to busy to be posting etc woth work and family


----------



## Wolf6

Wow, thats impressive! My tanks dont even produce half that much. I usually cant get myself to instantly toss it out so keep the cuttings in the bucket for a bit in the hopes I can help someone with it but I dont know anyone irl who would have use, so end up tossing it in the bin after a few days anyways.


----------



## Garuf

Wolf6 said:


> Wow, thats impressive! My tanks dont even produce half that much. I usually cant get myself to instantly toss it out so keep the cuttings in the bucket for a bit in the hopes I can help someone with it but I dont know anyone irl who would have use, so end up tossing it in the bin after a few days anyways.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Nothing quite like the feeling of throwing £100 worth of aquarium plants on the compost heap! 😂



It’s soil food. Grow next years veg. Never consider the money aspect. Probably horrifying to think about quite frankly 😂



Wolf6 said:


> Wow, thats impressive! My tanks dont even produce half that much. I usually cant get myself to instantly toss it out so keep the cuttings in the bucket for a bit in the hopes I can help someone with it but I dont know anyone irl who would have use, so end up tossing it in the bin after a few days anyways.



2.5 litres of growth per week is the mindset. 10:1 once in the compost bin once broken down… best of all you know what’s in the compost. The helping others bit comes from handing out free vegetables.



Deano3 said:


> Thats made ne laugh 🤣🤣 i am the same as @Wookii said i hate tossing plants in bin or compost but sometimes just to busy to be posting etc woth work and family



Ain’t no one gonna want these cuttings @Deano3 . Mostly ripping stuff out with hands and shady finger and thumb pruning. Fast and nasty but gets the job done and spares the scissors as much as possible. Besides… the post office already think I’m suspect posting all these ‘aquarium plants’ on the regular 😂

Envy you @Garuf as your trimming was probably enjoyable. Having an hour to sort a tank before school pickup feels like The Krypton Factor 😆


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Oooff…


----------



## Karmicnull

Blimey. One-two punch needed I would say...


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Karmicnull said:


> Blimey. One-two punch needed I would say...



Went away for a few days. You know the way you train kids to switch off plugs that aren’t being used….? Unfortunately that one was connected to the autodoser and Co2.

Oh well. At least it isn’t a packet of Jammy Dodgers swirling around the tank again 😂


----------



## SRP3006

Very interested to see how you bring this back to glory, had something similar happen before and had no idea how to fix it. Is it a case of manual removal and ensuring the co2 and ferts are on point?


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Wow that in a few days. Can see how powerful those lights actually are. Think you will manage to sort this out pretty quickly.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Wow that in a few days. Can see how powerful those lights actually are. Think you will manage to sort this out pretty quickly.



To be fair, it wasn’t the kid, he just tipped it over the edge. It’s this numpty’s fault. The temptation pre-existed when there was a heavy trim with no adjustment to ferts and co2. Just thought that it was possible to get away with it with a fast grow in period. Leaving the settings as is and letting the growth match.

Got a heavy November work-wise with travel and the purpose of the heavy trim was to restrict maintenance on this tank to quick water changes this month until there is better time availability…. It hasn’t worked 😂

But the three other tanks are trucking so not too much of a problem for time dedication for this one.



SRP3006 said:


> Very interested to see how you bring this back to glory, had something similar happen before and had no idea how to fix it. Is it a case of manual removal and ensuring the co2 and ferts are on point?



It’s being proactive with creating situations that hair algae can’t tolerate, but circumstances that the plants will survive under.

As for the reason why this specific tank is here, failed to make adjustments - operator error. It’s recoverable though. It was compounded with the power being cut, but that’s a cop out. Tank should be more stable than that.

There’s at least a couple of different hair algae in there. They’re attached to leaves, hardscape, the glass and in the carpet. It’s abundant where there’s light, it’s doing well down to dim lit substrate level. You’re not gonna win with just manual removal. You can’t cut growth away without implications on plant demands.

Toothbrush twirling is just resulting in hundreds of broken off strands spreading the problem. Glutaraldehyde will do sweet FA to it. The ‘it’s Co2 distribution’ argument works when you haven’t got multiple factors interacting. Switching off the ferts and Co2 for three days under high light just kicked the problem through the door.

Specific to this case… Proposed actions:

Have a coffee and watch the tank for a bit. See what else you’ve missed.

Today… maxed the Co2 out to as comfortably possible and dosed full EI. The plants are as full as they’re going to be. The Co2 injection rate is also ready for EI at lights on too. Distribution around the tank is already good because of the trim. (Caveat… don’t switch from urea based fertilising regimes to KNO3 overnight and just assume they’re the same).

Three day blackout with constant aeration.

Three days later, big and slow water change to remove as much manually as possible that is weakened. With water dropped (80% out), spray a water/phytoncide mix over everything remaining. Leave it for ten minutes. Refill.

Switch to full EI at lights on.

Clear filters of decay from die off and water change again if there’s free floating strands present.

It’s as big a dent as possible to make in a week with limited time. Thereafter it’s simple EI, Co2 tuned in and reassess. Expecting this to take a month before it’s resolved.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Lights out…


----------



## John q

Geoffrey Rea said:


> As for the reason why this specific tank is here, failed to make adjustments - operator error


I said to @Ady34  a while back that its refreshing to see these set ups "warts and all". Gives the likes of me some encouragement when I see the more accomplished guys out there also have the odd glitch. 

Suppose it reminds us that having a successful planted tank is sometimes a marathon, not a sprint. 

Enjoy the rodeo Geoff.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Have a coffee and watch the tank for a bit. See what else you’ve missed.


Always a <"good idea">. You need to play <"James Carr"> or <"Bobby Blue Bland"> while you are watching. 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Clear filters of decay from die off and water change again if there’s free floating strands present.
> 
> It’s as big a dent as possible to make in a week with limited time. Thereafter it’s simple EI, Co2 tuned in and reassess. Expecting this to take a month before it’s resolved.


I'm interested in the outcome of this one. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii

Ditto - I’m going to be following this with interest too, hair algae has always been the most difficult to deal with of all the algae types, for me, as there never seems to be a quick fix like there can be for other types.


----------



## Libba

Man that's some real nightmare fuel. Confident you'll salvage it though. Being able to bring a tank back from an algae infestation is what separates the pros from the amatuers imo.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

John q said:


> Suppose it reminds us that having a successful planted tank is sometimes a marathon, not a sprint.



It’s a choice. To care or not to care. Accomplishment is equal to ongoing care. If you bought a hamster, put it into a cage and stopped caring for a month, Tiddles would meet his maker pretty quickly. High demand tanks are similar, they only run so far before interventions are needed.



dw1305 said:


> I'm interested in the outcome of this one.



There’s several items on the to do list which have cropped up over the last month; two lots of hair algae, GSA on the pipework, poor growth of the eleocharis which is being overtaken by moss, poorly performing lower growth on multiple species and a tank owner with low motivation.

The broader outcome is adapting the system to take care of all the above. The most obvious factor that would impact all items would be a shift in nutrient availability from the substrate (stopped using root tabs/let growth get emersed with a lot of access to light and Co2). Demands went up, my inaction was found wanting…



Wookii said:


> hair algae has always been the most difficult to deal with of all the algae types, for me, as there never seems to be a quick fix like there can be for other types.



It does well even if the plants are doing well. Hence the blackout, manual removal and spraying all plants and surfaces with a phytoncide/water mix whilst the tank is drained immediately after the blackout. Combined, it’s a bloody haymaker in the face of the hair algae, with all momentum being put into slowing it down.

EI straight after the blackout is the best way I know of for tilting growth in the plants favour with a minimal potential for error. You’ll note that the Co2 was setup perfectly for EI before the blackout. Yeah… that bit is kinda important. You don’t want anything other than perfect Co2 when the lights go back on or you’re in for a lot of pain. Sort the Co2 out before a blackout, always. You want to hit the ground running.

All those things on the list above are system problems, tightly related to nutrient availability so the fix isn’t too hard to execute. The emersed growth changed the demands. GSA is a red flag for lack of phosphate availability. Why muck around with any dosing regime other than EI at this point and ongoing? Sort of made clear that the want for this tank is growth straight out of the water… feed the damn thing properly.

The wild card here is what is happening to the bacterial assemblage in these 72 hours. Got good surface agitation going but we’ll see how much it can meet the oxygen demands to deal with the inhabitants, the decay and the bacterial colonies.



Libba said:


> Man that's some real nightmare fuel. Confident you'll salvage it though. Being able to bring a tank back from an algae infestation is what separates the pros from the amatuers imo.



Matter of time. The plants want to thrive, just gotta give them what they need. All the other tanks are doing well so can spend some more time on getting this one back to spec.


----------



## Deano3

Great to see Geoffrey sure you will get under control quickly,  thanks for sharing, can i ask what is phytoncide ? I have only ever used flourish excel what is *glutaraldehyde.

thanks dean*


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @Deano3 

Straight up… don’t know. Here’s the Wiki page on Phytoncide and the product I’m referring to is ADA’s Phyton-Git Sol (the Sol is just a version that is a thicker solution). Have friends in Asia who seem aware of the use of phytoncides for gardening as commonly as we are aware of the use of seaweed extract as a growth hormone here. Phytoncide just doesn’t seem to be a thing in the west, no clue why.

Discussion in this thread but not many conclusions, sort of descended into a debate about cost rather than overall utility of Phyton-Git. Viktor of Green Aqua seemed to be a fan of Phyton-Git a decade ago, as you can see in the thread. It’s a nice to have in the toolkit.

Personally, have had to do maintenance for folks and turned some pretty disastrous tanks around using this stuff. It obviously involved more than just a ‘magic potion’, correcting dosing/lighting/Co2 as well. But it’s excellent at killing the offender [insert algae here] but leaving the plant tissues intact to fight on with no damage from application. The same scenario using excel/glutaraldehyde or hydrogen peroxide would have been a non-starter due to tissue damage.

It is an end game solution for Cyanobacteria/BGA as well but does leave one wondering what it might do to other bacterium we may not want coming to harm. However, have seen it clear several tanks of BGA successfully and it never returned in those systems thereafter.


----------



## CooKieS

Verrrryyy interesting…as always @Geoffrey Rea !

My best weapons against hair thread algae are always spot on co2, black out and easy life algexit (in last resort only).

Good luck mate!


----------



## rebel

Wookii said:


> Ditto - I’m going to be following this with interest too, hair algae has always been the most difficult to deal with of all the algae types, for me, as there never seems to be a quick fix like there can be for other types.


How about Amano shrimp, black mollies etc?

Algaexit will kill so many shrimp IME. Not all though, depending on the dose.


----------



## Wookii

rebel said:


> How about Amano shrimp, black mollies etc?



To be honest I’ve never seen amano shrimp eating significant amounts of mature hair algae in a system where they have other food options. As for Mollies, that’s really a stocking choice, I wouldn’t consider them an algae control option.

For me, a large snail and shrimp population, and consistent CO2 and ferts means I no longer see much visible hair algae, but it will be great to follow @Geoffrey Rea’s blow by blow account to tackling his outbreak here.


----------



## SRP3006

Wookii said:


> To be honest I’ve never seen amano shrimp eating significant amounts of mature hair algae in a system where they have other food options.


Be neither. I realised mine had all died off when I took down my last scape, but I don't really remember them ever having much interest in algae. Dropping a algae wafer in however, that had a different response. Probably won't be stocking them this time around. 
@Geoffrey Rea thank you for going into so much detail in your responses, it really does help someone like me following along and seeing the steps you take to regain control.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

CooKieS said:


> Verrrryyy interesting…as always @Geoffrey Rea !
> 
> My best weapons against hair thread algae are always spot on co2, black out and easy life algexit (in last resort only).
> 
> Good luck mate!



Hey @CooKieS this conversation may interest you, but is likely to be a red rag to a bull for some as it is much less than scientific. However… We both have experience of conducting a tank to look just the way we want, when we want, so should be interesting.

Just to frame the conversation with a couple of questions:

_Is it possible to run a mixed planted, high tech tank, to the same standard from twelve months onwards?

What can be done to overcome the issues at around twelve months commonplace in these sort of tanks?_

Think you know what I’m getting at here, there’s a reason folks rescape yearly. Stores that run display tanks into a second or third year understand the drop in performance being referred to. Currently it is relevant to you as you have continued running your IAPLC entry tank a little longer, so intrigued to know what you’re noticing about your setup too. Yours is not so dissimilar as it uses aquarium soil, unlike some moss dominant entries that use the absolute minimum amount of soil in the setup.

Backdrop to the current situation here… Stopped thinking about this 1200 with any clarity and it ended up here. The current condition is part of a wider set of problems so looking to address them rather than just fix the algae. Not concerned about the hair algae, it’s feedback and this is useful.

The reef tank stole this 1200’s thunder, but was necessary to keep the marine setup moving. Had to quickly solve a hair algae problem that was stalling the startup on that setup. It worked out pretty quickly once the relationships holding the system in that state became clear. Marine has its own set of tools but the rules aren’t too dissimilar.

Before:





After:





Think there was a great learning to be had there regarding taking care of your systems bacterial colonies first. I believe the success of the Utricularia graminifolia setup is also due, in part, to considering the importance of all the things we rely on that we cannot see.

Currently considering the implications of my actions on the 1200 by retracing the steps that have got the tank to this place.

Think you can deeply appreciate the importance of balancing methods with aesthetic value in a tank @CooKieS . For example, compact S. repens or L. arcuata with needle sharp orange to red leaves, even deeper red H. pinnatifida to accent a spot. Those wants are all mapped on to the scape design and what the layout will permit distribution wise too.













The task set on the 1200 is to find out if you can do this outside of the first year of a setup; maintain those aesthetic practices with soil that has gone passed a year.

Ferts - The first half of the life of the 1200 has for all intents and purposes been ADA’s regime; Powersand, Bacter 100, Amazonia, Green Brighty neutral K, Green Brighty Mineral. This was supplemented with periodic additions of root tabs, pushed into the crevices of tactically placed lava rock so the task could be done blind:





















Once the soil is in, if you don’t remember where the crevices are it becomes difficult to get a tab through the soil and Powersand to the base glass. Point is the replenishment of root tabs has always been primarily at the back of the setup where the Co2 mist sprays left to right and the light is strongest. It’s a high demand area.

This worked, for a good while:





Around the six month mark noticed the epiphytes required much more care so switched the dosing regime. Will get to this in a moment.

Up until this point, any nitrate and phosphate needs were catered to from the substrate and fish loading. It’s useful as anything planted into the soil has those mobile nutrients available and can make withdrawals from the bank of nutrients in the substrate. Associated with this is running the Co2 in the green with more leeway for error. N-P-Co2 balance is much more customisable with substrate dependence for the first two. Think ADA designed their products this way to decrease failure rates of patrons of their system.

The Co2 becomes the controlling aspect of the three as N and P are always available, but not the primary driver of growth. The Co2 puts a limit on the growth and the amount of photosynthesis, but the leaves go red to adapt to the conditions of high light. Instead of melt we get compact, coloured forms.

Enter alternatives to ADA’s Brighty K and Mineral… APT Zero, Tropica Premium [insert favourite brand here]. All liquid ferts with nitrate and phosphate omitted. Think the point missed here is this works with fresh soil that is loaded but is on a downward trajectory. The ‘lean’ dosing isn’t lean at all, it’s just a system that takes advantage of location and regulation of the transportation of nutrients within the plants.

Back to the epiphytes… same source water but integration of KNO3 and KH2PO4 into the water column dosing. Source water is RODI taken all the way down to 0TDS. Sample is sent off for analysis every three months and the unit is on a conservative maintenance schedule. It’s as much control as you can have on the input water.

The intervention to boost epiphyte health…

Full breakdown of the new weekly inputs in ppm:

*KNO3*

NO3 5
N 1.13
K 3.15

*KH2PO4*

PO4 1
P 0.33
K 0.41

*CaCl*

Cl 5.11
Ca 2.89
dGH 0.4

*CaSO4.2H20*

Ca 9.31
S 7.45
dGH 1.3

*MgSO4.7H2O*

Mg 3.94
S 5.2
dGH 0.91

*K2CO3*

K 7.92
CO3 6.08
dKH 0.57

*Condensed:*

NO3 5
N 1.13
K 11.48
PO4 1
P 0.33
Cl 5.11
Ca 12.2
S 12.65
Mg 3.94
CO3 6.08

*Ca : K : Mg*

12.2: 11.48 : 3.94

(Note: when K is input over the week that ratio is targeted to be closer to 3:2:1 consistently)

This carried the tank through another three months. Overall health was good although there were losses on colouration. Adapted this by changing some species out that were more colourful by virtue rather than conditions.





With the ‘slightly’ more comprehensive water column fertilisation the viable range of Co2 concentration got tighter and required more management. It was workable though. Further round of root tabs in during this period. Nothing too shabby, but again, slowly getting away from good form and colouration:





Finally… The final quarter of the year bringing us to today.

Shifted over to DIY Tropica TPN+ using ammonium nitrate for N source. No root tabs.

No idea of the condition of the soil at this point. However, two things are pretty certain;  the CEC of the soil will have been on a downward trajectory and the buffering capacity of the soil will be diminished.

Decided to place a bet on letting growth go emersed to increase Co2 respiration from the roots. Alter the pH locally in the soil.

Plan was to continue with periodic root tabs, then lean more heavily on water column fertilisation with the root tabs as a safety net. Started the emersed on one side to see if there was any notable difference in growth from the soil. This was between the emersed right and the still submersed left.













The tank got a bump on the right side so continued with letting the left side join the party.





It was going well. But then against better judgement, all this growth was cut back to submersed.





No availability for maintenance in November so the idea was to improve distribution around the tank with Co2 dialled in, then let it grow out again this month in my absence. Confused my needs with the tanks needs unfortunately, it would have been better to leave it growing in hindsight.

This slow shift towards emersed growth and greater levels of dosing via the water column may have worked. The high uptake from the emersed growth got a reaction from some species located submersed and sharing the soil, bringing out signature colouration of lean water column conditions. It was a very localised difference.

If I had to guess, would say slowing the additional Co2 respiration from the roots of the emersed growth in one go (by trimming back to submersed) was a really, really bad move.

And here we are today…

Long one @CooKieS but interested to know if any of these experiences chime with your experience?

I know you can elongate the downward trajectory of a tanks life by simply using massive piles of soil… ADA show tanks and Green Aqua displays for example.

Some ADA display tanks have even been stripped out, had the soil replaced and then the hard scape/plants returned to give them a second burst of life. That’s cheating 😂

Wonder if I’m just pissin’ in the wind here trying to get too much of a good thing. Is it that everything simply has a beginning, a middle and an end with regards to maintaining these plant forms to that standard?

Anyway… that’s this tank, one of many. The algae will be destroyed and beer will be drank to celebrate in due course.. Just wondered if you’ve seen any examples of comp spec tanks run longer term, or had success longer term with these plant forms/colouration personally?


----------



## CooKieS

Hello mate,
Loving this…let me exercice my english and I’ll try to answer all your question, even if I’m not nearly as good as you regarding the ‘scientific’ aspect , my tank is still running too so I’m encountering interesting things too and made some experience too…have a nice Sunday!


----------



## John q

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hey @CooKieS this conversation may interest you, but is likely to be a red rag to a bull for some as it is much less than scientific. However… We both have experience of conducting a tank to look just the way we want, when we want, so should be interesting.
> 
> Just to frame the conversation with a couple of questions:
> 
> _Is it possible to run a mixed planted, high tech tank, to the same standard from twelve months onwards?
> 
> What can be done to overcome the issues at around twelve months commonplace in these sort of tanks?_
> 
> Think you know what I’m getting at here, there’s a reason folks rescape yearly. Stores that run display tanks into a second or third year understand the drop in performance being referred to. Currently it is relevant to you as you have continued running your IAPLC entry tank a little longer, so intrigued to know what you’re noticing about your setup too. Yours is not so dissimilar as it uses aquarium soil, unlike some moss dominant entries that use the absolute minimum amount of soil in the setup.
> 
> Backdrop to the current situation here… Stopped thinking about this 1200 with any clarity and it ended up here. The current condition is part of a wider set of problems so looking to address them rather than just fix the algae. Not concerned about the hair algae, it’s feedback and this is useful.
> 
> The reef tank stole this 1200’s thunder, but was necessary to keep the marine setup moving. Had to quickly solve a hair algae problem that was stalling the startup on that setup. It worked out pretty quickly once the relationships holding the system in that state became clear. Marine has its own set of tools but the rules aren’t too dissimilar.
> 
> Before:
> 
> View attachment 177468
> 
> After:
> 
> View attachment 177469
> 
> Think there was a great learning to be had there regarding taking care of your systems bacterial colonies first. I believe the success of the Utricularia graminifolia setup is also due, in part, to considering the importance of all the things we rely on that we cannot see.
> 
> Currently considering the implications of my actions on the 1200 by retracing the steps that have got the tank to this place.
> 
> Think you can deeply appreciate the importance of balancing methods with aesthetic value in a tank @CooKieS . For example, compact S. repens or L. arcuata with needle sharp orange to red leaves, even deeper red H. pinnatifida to accent a spot. Those wants are all mapped on to the scape design and what the layout will permit distribution wise too.
> 
> View attachment 177470
> 
> View attachment 177471
> 
> View attachment 177472
> 
> The task set on the 1200 is to find out if you can do this outside of the first year of a setup; maintain those aesthetic practices with soil that has gone passed a year.
> 
> Ferts - The first half of the life of the 1200 has for all intents and purposes been ADA’s regime; Powersand, Bacter 100, Amazonia, Green Brighty neutral K, Green Brighty Mineral. This was supplemented with periodic additions of root tabs, pushed into the crevices of tactically placed lava rock so the task could be done blind:
> 
> View attachment 177473
> 
> View attachment 177474
> 
> View attachment 177475
> 
> View attachment 177476
> 
> View attachment 177477
> 
> Once the soil is in, if you don’t remember where the crevices are it becomes difficult to get a tab through the soil and Powersand to the base glass. Point is the replenishment of root tabs has always been primarily at the back of the setup where the Co2 mist sprays left to right and the light is strongest. It’s a high demand area.
> 
> This worked, for a good while:
> 
> View attachment 177478
> 
> Around the six month mark noticed the epiphytes required much more care so switched the dosing regime. Will get to this in a moment.
> 
> Up until this point, any nitrate and phosphate needs were catered to from the substrate and fish loading. It’s useful as anything planted into the soil has those mobile nutrients available and can make withdrawals from the bank of nutrients in the substrate. Associated with this is running the Co2 in the green with more leeway for error. N-P-Co2 balance is much more customisable with substrate dependence for the first two. Think ADA designed their products this way to decrease failure rates of patrons of their system.
> 
> The Co2 becomes the controlling aspect of the three as N and P are always available, but not the primary driver of growth. The Co2 puts a limit on the growth and the amount of photosynthesis, but the leaves go red to adapt to the conditions of high light. Instead of melt we get compact, coloured forms.
> 
> Enter alternatives to ADA’s Brighty K and Mineral… APT Zero, Tropica Premium [insert favourite brand here]. All liquid ferts with nitrate and phosphate omitted. Think the point missed here is this works with fresh soil that is loaded but is on a downward trajectory. The ‘lean’ dosing isn’t lean at all, it’s just a system that takes advantage of location and regulation of the transportation of nutrients within the plants.
> 
> Back to the epiphytes… same source water but integration of KNO3 and KH2PO4 into the water column dosing. Source water is RODI taken all the way down to 0TDS. Sample is sent off for analysis every three months and the unit is on a conservative maintenance schedule. It’s as much control as you can have on the input water.
> 
> The intervention to boost epiphyte health…
> 
> Full breakdown of the new weekly inputs in ppm:
> 
> *KNO3*
> 
> NO3 5
> N 1.13
> K 3.15
> 
> *KH2PO4*
> 
> PO4 1
> P 0.33
> K 0.41
> 
> *CaCl*
> 
> Cl 5.11
> Ca 2.89
> dGH 0.4
> 
> *CaSO4.2H20*
> 
> Ca 9.31
> S 7.45
> dGH 1.3
> 
> *MgSO4.7H2O*
> 
> Mg 3.94
> S 5.2
> dGH 0.91
> 
> *K2CO3*
> 
> K 7.92
> CO3 6.08
> dKH 0.57
> 
> *Condensed:*
> 
> NO3 5
> N 1.13
> K 11.48
> PO4 1
> P 0.33
> Cl 5.11
> Ca 12.2
> S 12.65
> Mg 3.94
> CO3 6.08
> 
> *Ca : K : Mg*
> 
> 12.2: 11.48 : 3.94
> 
> (Note: when K is input over the week that ratio is targeted to be closer to 3:2:1 consistently)
> 
> This carried the tank through another three months. Overall health was good although there were losses on colouration. Adapted this by changing some species out that were more colourful by virtue rather than conditions.
> 
> View attachment 177486
> 
> With the ‘slightly’ more comprehensive water column fertilisation the viable range of Co2 concentration got tighter and required more management. It was workable though. Further round of root tabs in during this period. Nothing too shabby, but again, slowly getting away from good form and colouration:
> 
> View attachment 177487
> 
> Finally… The final quarter of the year bringing us to today.
> 
> Shifted over to DIY Tropica TPN+ using ammonium nitrate for N source. No root tabs.
> 
> No idea of the condition of the soil at this point. However, two things are pretty certain; the CEC of the soil will have been on a downward trajectory and the buffering capacity of the soil will be diminished.
> 
> Decided to place a bet on letting growth go emersed to increase Co2 respiration from the roots. Alter the pH locally in the soil.
> 
> Plan was to continue with periodic root tabs, then lean more heavily on water column fertilisation with the root tabs as a safety net. Started the emersed on one side to see if there was any notable difference in growth from the soil. This was between the emersed right and the still submersed left.
> 
> View attachment 177488
> 
> View attachment 177489
> 
> View attachment 177490
> 
> The tank got a bump on the right side so continued with letting the left side join the party.
> 
> View attachment 177491
> 
> It was going well. But then against better judgement, all this growth was cut back to submersed.
> 
> View attachment 177492
> 
> No availability for maintenance in November so the idea was to improve distribution around the tank with Co2 dialled in, then let it grow out again this month in my absence. Confused my needs with the tanks needs unfortunately, it would have been better to leave it growing in hindsight.
> 
> This slow shift towards emersed growth and greater levels of dosing via the water column may have worked. The high uptake from the emersed growth got a reaction from some species located submersed and sharing the soil, bringing out signature colouration of lean water column conditions. It was a very localised difference.
> 
> If I had to guess, would say slowing the additional Co2 respiration from the roots of the emersed growth in one go (by trimming back to submersed) was a really, really bad move.
> 
> And here we are today…
> 
> Long one @CooKieS but interested to know if any of these experiences chime with your experience?
> 
> I know you can elongate the downward trajectory of a tanks life by simply using massive piles of soil… ADA show tanks and Green Aqua displays for example.
> 
> Some ADA display tanks have even been stripped out, had the soil replaced and then the hard scape/plants returned to give them a second burst of life. That’s cheating 😂
> 
> Wonder if I’m just pissin’ in the wind here trying to get too much of a good thing. Is it that everything simply has a beginning, a middle and an end with regards to maintaining these plant forms to that standard?
> 
> Anyway… that’s this tank, one of many. The algae will be destroyed and beer will be drank to celebrate in due course.. Just wondered if you’ve seen any examples of comp spec tanks run longer term, or had success longer term with these plant forms/colouration personally?


Can this post be made into a sticky? Best post I've ever read on ukaps.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ding Ding 🛎 

Round One…

Blackout over and cut the background stems, they’ll grow back quick under EI so not worth faffing around:






Any loose bits of hardscape that have hair algae on that you can remove, give them a scrub with a toothbrush in the sink:





Glassware and pipework clean so you maximise flow from your filters:





This time only the prefilter sponges got exchanged for fresh sponges. Will be clearing filters more than once this week, but given the tank has just come out of a blackout it isn’t worth upsetting the media just yet.

Unlike the stems, slower growers can’t really be trimmed to remove the hair algae wholesale. You can however pluck off the odd leaves to stimulate  new growth:





Drain the tank. With the water level down you can remove some of the hair algae with a dry paper towel. The blackout weakens it so it comes off a little more readily as long strands that stick to the dry paper without breaking:





300 ml of water mixed with 30ml of Phyton-Git Sol in a spray bottle:





Mist the entire tank and be thorough, you want the phytoncide on everything if possible:





Leave for ten minutes and have a brew. Then refill:





If using RO that’s aerated like here, don’t be lazy if you’re doing maintenance whilst Co2 would normally be on the ramp up.

Time once refilled:





The ramp up should have started at 11:00 and lights on at 13:00 :





Add those missing minutes and delay the lighting until the entire Co2 ramp up has elapsed. In this case the ramp needs to continue to 13:42 to make up the full two hours. Set an alarm and delay the lights :





Start as you mean to go on. EI demands excellent Co2 application and nothing less.

Micros in on day one:





We trimmed so availability of micronutrients is priority, macros can come from the soil for day one. There’s K in the water change water.

Day two with macros going in you’ll get a lot of pearling with EI. With the hair algae a) weakened from the blackout, b) suffering with inhibited growth from the phytoncide and c) contending with plant surfaces pouring with oxygen you get it detaching.

Before:





After:





It then becomes important that you do some further water changes throughout the week and keep the filters clear. With the hair algae detaching, you’ll find a lot gathers inside your filters. Clean them. Change water.

Most things will clear with one round of Phyton-Git spray, Buce and Anubias tend to take a couple of sprays.

Being realistic this process will take a few weeks and some rounds of trimming to rid the system entirely. In the meantime, will see what can be removed from the planting to improve distribution now that the tank is under EI.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Ding Ding 🛎
> 
> Round One…
> 
> Blackout over and cut the background stems, they’ll grow back quick under EI so not worth faffing around:
> 
> View attachment 177615
> 
> Any loose bits of hardscape that have hair algae on that you can remove, give them a scrub with a toothbrush in the sink:
> 
> View attachment 177616
> 
> Glassware and pipework clean so you maximise flow from your filters:
> 
> View attachment 177624
> 
> This time only the prefilter sponges got exchanged for fresh sponges. Will be clearing filters more than once this week, but given the tank has just come out of a blackout it isn’t worth upsetting the media just yet.
> 
> Unlike the stems, slower growers can’t really be trimmed to remove the hair algae wholesale. You can however pluck off the odd leaves to stimulate  new growth:
> 
> View attachment 177617
> 
> Drain the tank. With the water level down you can remove some of the hair algae with a dry paper towel. The blackout weakens it so it comes off a little more readily as long strands that stick to the dry paper without breaking:
> 
> View attachment 177618
> 
> 300 ml of water mixed with 30ml of Phyton-Git Sol in a spray bottle:
> 
> View attachment 177619
> 
> Mist the entire tank and be thorough, you want the phytoncide on everything if possible:
> 
> View attachment 177620
> 
> Leave for ten minutes and have a brew. Then refill:
> 
> View attachment 177621
> 
> If using RO that’s aerated like here, don’t be lazy if you’re doing maintenance whilst Co2 would normally be on the ramp up.
> 
> Time once refilled:
> 
> View attachment 177622
> 
> The ramp up should have started at 11:00 and lights on at 13:00 :
> 
> View attachment 177623
> 
> Add those missing minutes and delay the lighting until the entire Co2 ramp up has elapsed. In this case the ramp needs to continue to 13:42 to make up the full two hours. Set an alarm and delay the lights :
> 
> View attachment 177628
> 
> Start as you mean to go on. EI demands excellent Co2 application and nothing less.
> 
> Micros in on day one:
> 
> View attachment 177629
> 
> We trimmed so availability of micronutrients is priority, macros can come from the soil for day one. There’s K in the water change water.
> 
> Day two with macros going in you’ll get a lot of pearling with EI. With the hair algae a) weakened from the blackout, b) suffering with inhibited growth from the phytoncide and c) contending with plant surfaces pouring with oxygen you get it detaching.
> 
> Before:
> 
> View attachment 177630
> 
> After:
> 
> View attachment 177631
> 
> It then becomes important that you do some further water changes throughout the week and keep the filters clear. With the hair algae detaching, you’ll find a lot gathers inside your filters. Clean them. Change water.
> 
> Most things will clear with one round of Phyton-Git spray, Buce and Anubias tend to take a couple of sprays.
> 
> Being realistic this process will take a few weeks and some rounds of trimming to rid the system entirely. In the meantime, will see what can be removed from the planting to improve distribution now that the tank is under EI.



Excellent process detail. These posts really need combining into a tutorial article and making a sticky in the algae section!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

rebel said:


> How about Amano shrimp, black mollies etc?





Wookii said:


> To be honest I’ve never seen amano shrimp eating significant amounts of mature hair algae in a system where they have other food options.



Clean up crew have their uses, but they mostly help indirectly. Cherry shrimp going after biofilm and die off after treatment have dislodged a lot of the hair algae, even though they won’t necessarily eat it, this helps a lot.



Wookii said:


> Excellent process detail. These posts really need combining into a tutorial article and making a sticky in the algae section!



Think the journals are enough. They are demonstrative of method. Just need to be clear about the specifics of each of these scenarios.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Beautiful tank, and a great read full of info and advice. In fact easily on a par with some of Tom Barr's better posts 👍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Day four after treatment, lights on today…

Before:





After:





Still only done the one water change. There’s a few remnants of hair algae which still need tackling. Doing okay though.

Will do the next water change later today at the end of the fourth photoperiod. We’ve had micro/macro/micro/macro so far and want to do more trimming, tomorrow is another micro day.

Looking at improving flow about the tank. For starters, have ditched the trident fern towards the front:





Big space in the soil for something now and will be moving some of the plants around. New look, more hardscape on show, better setup for EI hopefully. There’s the wood and black lava to put back in view on the front left and flow around that area is pretty decent now. Nice little area to play with.

Eleocharis is coming back and pushing through the moss:





There’s still hair algae tangled up in there:





Will tackle this tonight; remove moss, reveal the eleocharis again and trim level. Big water change to pull out any hair algae in suspension.

The back needs less obstruction as well so will be moving some of the sets in the back on another session. Move the R. bonsai for starters.





May scrap the arcuata entirely to give the Hyptis a proper place to live, rather than it being crammed in the less than ideal spot currently. Bolbitis needs thinning and can reveal more of the wood on show again with better flow through that area as well.

Anyway, that’s the progress so far. A few interventions four days ago, but only took an hour and half to do everything in the other post. Not too bad four days later and much more manageable.


----------



## Deano3

Brilliant explanation on tackling the algae and have to agree with @Wookii even copying and pasting into a sticky thread for future would be great as explained so well. Thanks Geoffrey 😊


----------



## PARAGUAY

Deano3 said:


> Brilliant explanation on tackling the algae and have to agree woth @Wookii even copying and pasting into a sticky thread for future would be great as explained so well. Thanks Geoffrey 😊


Tutorial perhaps🙂


----------



## erwin123

On the topic of blackouts, I've read about doing a 2nd round of a 72-hour blackout to weaken the algae further - after the plants have been given a chance to 'recover' a bit from the first blackout, but while the algae is still weakened. Would that be something to consider?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> Brilliant explanation on tackling the algae and have to agree with @Wookii even copying and pasting into a sticky thread for future would be great as explained so well. Thanks Geoffrey 😊



This is problematic @Deano and being honest, not sure there is any benefit to putting this stuff out there beyond this journal.

For example, someone reached out outside of this forum to ask how the UG tank is run. Explained the steps and pointed them to the UG journal. Got called a f*##ing idiot and a tw#*. It’s not much fun mate 😂

As before, it’s demonstrative in journal format and specific. Most importantly, we have a relationship underneath all these comments. You can ask questions about whatever is being done, we can chat about it, maybe that technique only works in certain circumstances… a guide is final. Don’t usually bring stuff up unless it delivers a repeated outcome that others might like to try. They are just suggestions, not advice.

Think you all get that this is just sharing ‘what is done’ here in context, with the hope it will make your hobby a bit easier. Still requires folks to consider whether this tank is run like their tank? Will this work for me?



erwin123 said:


> On the topic of blackouts, I've read about doing a 2nd round of a 72-hour blackout to weaken the algae further - after the plants have been given a chance to 'recover' a bit from the first blackout, but while the algae is still weakened. Would that be something to consider?



Not heard that one before @erwin123 , do you have a link so I can understand the circumstances where it is being used? Can reply properly then.


----------



## Karmicnull

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Got called a f*##ing idiot and a tw#*. It’s not much fun mate 😂


I share your pain.  Some feel that the anonymity of online gives them license to display staggeringly poor behaviour.


----------



## Wookii

It sad but I’ve encountered keyboard warriors like that many times on other forums - this forum is a paradise of civility compared to most.

Keyboard warriors like that are paper thin, if you met them in the street they wouldn’t even be able to hold eye contact! Ultimately you have to learn to pity them, as it’s their only release for their inadequacies in the real world. Once you do that, their aggression ultimately becomes comical!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea




----------



## erwin123

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not heard that one before @erwin123 , do you have a link so I can understand the circumstances where it is being used? Can reply properly then.











						Multiple blackout method for algae control
					

Blackouts are common suggestion for BGA and a few other species of algae to put some hurt on the algae when trying to fix the root cause.  The method I'm suggesting here is one that keeps the plants going indefinitely with only moderate stress but really hurts the algae much more over time...




					barrreport.com
				




This idea was from Tom Barr's post "Multiple blackout method for algae control".


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

erwin123 said:


> Multiple blackout method for algae control
> 
> 
> Blackouts are common suggestion for BGA and a few other species of algae to put some hurt on the algae when trying to fix the root cause.  The method I'm suggesting here is one that keeps the plants going indefinitely with only moderate stress but really hurts the algae much more over time...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barrreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This idea was from Tom Barr's post "Multiple blackout method for algae control".



Yes, this could potentially work well. It’s just multiple rounds if needs must. Would consider what type of algae you are trying to rid the system of, understand why it is there in the first place. You can keep doing blackout after blackout and ‘X’ will return if you haven’t put your finger on the contributing factor(s). Also thanks for sharing @erwin123 not read this before.

Some of the problems mentioned (paleness of plants, elongated growth) I haven’t seen with 72 hour blackouts with high surface agitation added in. It’s a pretty basic assumption, but why would higher continuous o2 input be a bad idea during a prolonged dark period? Might as well maximise o2 input so any fluctuations in demand can be met. Just a thought. Only requires the lifting of a lily pipe, spray bar or air pump to implement.

Unlike Tom, the previous suggestion in this thread does involve a magic potion to solve problems wholesale… because quite frankly, haven’t got the time to mess about. Phyton-Git has always performed with no downsides. Over and over. Can’t vouch for other products though as have never used them. So unlike Tom, not particularly against paying for something that at least does the job with no appreciable downsides. This sort of lands on how quickly you want the problem gone and what method you prefer?



erwin123 said:


> On the topic of blackouts, I've read about doing a 2nd round of a 72-hour blackout to weaken the algae further - after the plants have been given a chance to 'recover' a bit from the first blackout, but while the algae is still weakened. Would that be something to consider?



Yes consider it, of course. It’s one more thing to try if you’re up against a tank wide problem.

Would add that both Tom and myself suffer from a bit of a delusion… there’s an assumption that the plants in someone’s tank aren’t on deaths door tank wide before starting a blackout. In reality a lot of folks would have tried multiple things and be at their wits end before beginning a blackout.

In this case you have to consider if the tank has gone over a tipping point and requires more than switching off the lights. Could go and on about the exceptions here, it would be pointless. It’s far better to deal with a specific tank with a specific owner and look at how they got into this position in the first place. That way we learn how to avoid these situations.

_An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure…_


----------



## Conort2

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Phyton-Git has always performed with no downsides.


Do you know what Phyton-git is made from? Does it cause damage to mosses, liverworts etc like liquid carbon or is it not as harsh?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Conort2 said:


> Do you know what Phyton-git is made from? Does it cause damage to mosses, liverworts etc like liquid carbon or is it not as harsh?



Dean asked this @Conort2 

Post #615 repeated below:



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hey @Deano3
> 
> Straight up… don’t know. Here’s the Wiki page on Phytoncide and the product I’m referring to is ADA’s Phyton-Git Sol (the Sol is just a version that is a thicker solution). Have friends in Asia who seem aware of the use of phytoncides for gardening as commonly as we are aware of the use of seaweed extract as a growth hormone here. Phytoncide just doesn’t seem to be a thing in the west, no clue why.
> 
> Discussion in this thread but not many conclusions, sort of descended into a debate about cost rather than overall utility of Phyton-Git. Viktor of Green Aqua seemed to be a fan of Phyton-Git a decade ago, as you can see in the thread. It’s a nice to have in the toolkit.
> 
> Personally, have had to do maintenance for folks and turned some pretty disastrous tanks around using this stuff. It obviously involved more than just a ‘magic potion’, correcting dosing/lighting/Co2 as well. But it’s excellent at killing the offender [insert algae here] but leaving the plant tissues intact to fight on with no damage from application. The same scenario using excel/glutaraldehyde or hydrogen peroxide would have been a non-starter due to tissue damage.
> 
> It is an end game solution for Cyanobacteria/BGA as well but does leave one wondering what it might do to other bacterium we may not want coming to harm. However, have seen it clear several tanks of BGA successfully and it never returned in those systems thereafter.



The other bit:



Conort2 said:


> Does it cause damage to mosses, liverworts etc



Not from experience, no. That is why it is so useful in some situations. Wouldn’t necessarily use it in every situation.


----------



## Conort2

Hmmm may be a good one to add to the tool kit. I have good success with glut but it is a harsh chemical. To be fair good husbandry and co2 is the best remedy but I took my eye off the ball a little while ago and hadn’t realised I’d ran out of co2. 

Must say the information is this thread is invaluable. Better than stuff you’ll find in any books relating to aquascaping!


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not from experience, no. That is why it is so useful in some situations. Wouldn’t necessarily use it in every situation.


----------



## PARAGUAY

All to often the "price" gets in the way of a product .Think we should put price as the last consideration then we have better understanding of the product.


----------



## Deano3

😲 i am shocked someone reacted that way for you trying to help and show them information they asked you for, i know what you mean if ever we need the information or advice or what has previously worked we can ask on this forum 😉 great bunch of people without any of the keyboard warriors 😁


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> if ever we need the information or advice or what has previously worked we can ask on this forum 😉 great bunch of people



And that is just one reason why UKAPS is so special 😊 

Final post on this tank for a while now. It’s getting gratuitous seeing it on the thread board.

Ten days on from the initial mess after Co2 and autodoser were switched off for three days.

Hair algae evicted:






Switching to EI has required removing and moving some plants to improve distribution.

At the back there’s the draw towards the inlet and push to the back right corner:









Moved a lot of species that we want emersed to the back wall, so ongoing there’s a channel for flow to travel along. A lot of species have been replanted low but will make an appearance soon enough:





The front now has improved flow with the trident fern gone and Bolbitis cut back:





Now that debacle is dealt with it’s just a matter of letting things grow out again.

Did discover on this little journey that underneath the eleocharis carpet, the soil is pretty much gone! There’s just a thin layer of dust and roots.

Debating whether to do something about this, replace the soil and replant. Alternatively, could carefully remove the carpeted area and replace with a sand bed. Put some small lava rock to add interest at the front. Something to consider for early next year maybe.

Anyway. Some wanted to know how the hair algae would be dealt with. That’s all folks. Next…


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Committed to the idea of sand on the base of the 1200 with root tabs for the background. Remove the eleocharis carpet and soil entirely from the foreground through to the valley to the back.

Dose the column with Tropica TPN+ for the best middle ground. Can still get decent form and colour then on the background stems. Epiphytes can get along with Tropica dosing.

Something to do over the Christmas break in time for the new year. New year, new look and no carpet to trim - winner.


----------



## bazz

You'll have more hairgrass than Tropica for sale!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

bazz said:


> You'll have more hairgrass than Tropica for sale!



There’s at least a square foot of Christmas Moss tangled in there too 😂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Carpet removal:













Lights off today, high surface agitation and second water change later. 





Sand is deliberately high, let any debris settle and siphon out the top layer.

Few plants to sort for tidy up but can do that anytime. Will trim the back and add root tabs in another week.


----------



## Wolf6

The look of clean sand is always so appealing


----------



## lazybones51

Geoffrey Rea said:


> There’s at least a square foot of Christmas Moss tangled in there too 😂


Moss and hair grass are so difficult to keep apart. I have the same situation and have contemplated ripping the hair grass out and replanting new. The sand looks really nice!


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Yes it looks way better this way. Makes the rest pop out and give some shape to it.


----------



## shangman

Looks great!! Really good idea with having the sand be thicker at first so you can siphon some out that gets all filled with crud. I have this problem all the time 😅


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

shangman said:


> Looks great!! Really good idea with having the sand be thicker at first so you can siphon some out that gets all filled with crud. I have this problem all the time 😅



It was easier having a super thin layer and replacing like in the last scape:





Always clean then. But a thicker layer that you can skim is a close second.

The sand is holding back the soil in the current scape now. Will always need to be reasonably thick, no escaping it. But it is a good excuse to add some corydora catfish potentially 🤔


----------



## shangman

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It was easier having a super thin layer and replacing like in the last scape:
> 
> View attachment 178515
> 
> Always clean then. But a thicker layer that you can skim is a close second.
> 
> The sand is holding back the soil in the current scape now. Will always need to be reasonably thick, no escaping it. But it is a good excuse to add some corydora catfish potentially 🤔


Yeah I love the super thin look tbh, especially right at the front glass. You guys have turned me into a sand snob! Although of course for corydoras I would have thick sand then, the way they snort it in huge volumes is just so funny. Love my pygmies but would love to keep the big proper sort one day.

What kind would you get? 👀


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

shangman said:


> You guys have turned me into a sand snob!



😂😏😁

It does have the aesthetic value without collecting all the crud. Downside is it offers no habitat. Do find that the Green Neons are much more bold when there is a sand base. They’re patrolling the boarders now which is nice to see. The White Clouds try to herd them but it never works 😂 Power in numbers.



shangman said:


> Although of course for corydoras I would have thick sand then, the way they snort it in huge volumes is just so funny. Love my pygmies but would love to keep the big proper sort one day.
> 
> What kind would you get? 👀



Regular Corydora sterbai are a favourite, they just look so dapper. They live a relatively long time though to what most in the hobby are willing to care for. The old man had a set of sterbai that were with us through most of my childhood.

To be honest @shangman probably won’t add any more stock as nice as it would be. The purpose of formatting the current setup is to let the White Clouds and Green Neons live out their days. The change to sand was to limit maintenance so the tank gets the consistency it deserves.

To answer your question though… If I were to commit to a forever ever tank it would be a full brigade of sterbai, 80 plus of them in a large setup so they shoal and show off their true nature. Point source like the Kessils as they have been more relaxed in dappled light from experience. Clever flow pattern with breaks and eddy’s to encourage them onto the sand bed for the chance of a bonus morsel of food. Probably river style, outlets all on one side, inlets on the other.

Anyway, Corydora Sterbai… Final answer 😂 Once you’ve seen them in a large shoal, it’s hard not to love them.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

All cleared up:





Will have a tidy up this weekend so the background stems grow in at the same rate. They are all back there, just need to show their faces. Will pop the root tabs in before next water change see if we can get things rolling again.

Also, some new additions:


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Popped in those 1-2-Grow pots and trimmed the back so it grows in at the same rate. Think the tank is planted out now, just needs to grow out for a month. Everyone likes the new sandy look here which is a plus.













Put the tripartita in the sand towards the edges in the foreground for a different texture, reinstated the pinnatifida on the wood on the right and proserpinaca in the sand at the very back centre.





Should just leave a ‘tunnel’ down the middle rather than a valley. The tripartita will round off the immediate foreground and edges hopefully. Never been much of a ‘proper’ scape but should add some depth from the front.

Pinnatifida can break up the middle right and the moss will thicken on the wood on the right to remove those straight edges. Will see how it all turns out in another month.

Also… there are fish in there despite their absence in most pictures 😂  They all scarper when you get your phone out (unless there’s food as part of the deal):


----------



## Wolf6

I had tripartita at the front in one tank, never again. Couldnt keep up with cutting it back, just grew so fast  Hope it behaves better in this setup! Looks great, even better with the sand then before.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Wolf6 said:


> I had tripartita at the front in one tank, never again. Couldnt keep up with cutting it back, just grew so fast  Hope it behaves better in this setup! Looks great, even better with the sand then before.


This I had it before until the sae grew up l. Now there is no way to grow it, it just get eaten right away. After that it was the moss the was the target.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wolf6 said:


> I had tripartita at the front in one tank, never again. Couldnt keep up with cutting it back, just grew so fast  Hope it behaves better in this setup! Looks great, even better with the sand then before.



It should be pretty restricted in the sand, reliant on the water column for all nutrients. It is also planted next to a lot of established plants and shaded by them. Most of what you see is growing  very close to the front glass, light is being reflected back off the front panel rather than direct:





Can hopefully train it to grow out onto the sand for light and access to nutrients in the flow. Any vertical growth will need planting back into the sand or need pinching back, hopefully not too frequently. That’s the theory… We’ll find out though.

If it does pan out, planting all the way out to the front glass on the left and right can add a layer of depth. It’s less than two centimetres of growth front to back but somehow helps fool the eye. Exchanging the valley for a tunnel by crowding growth should also help. Lots of shadows always helps create depth, even more so along the path of the focal point.



DeepMetropolis said:


> This I had it before until the sae grew up l. Now there is no way to grow it, it just get eaten right away. After that it was the moss the was the target.



They do like to munch 😂


----------



## Deano3

I think the sand and new style of the layout looks great Geoffrey,  love how you have kept the scape going with some slight changes changing the forground etc , my last scape was over a year so love a long term scape and i dont have time to be rescaping often maybe when kids are up a bit 😉, looks great though and hopefully a bit less work and a bit easier.


----------



## Ady34

A methodical and calculated victory over the hair algae. 
Great job and explanation.


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow bro just read through the journal as I knew I would have missed a lot but didn't expect it to be that much haha 
As normal always a pleasure to follow and admire your work 
Hope the family is all well and you have a great Christmas


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jayefc1 said:


> Wow bro just read through the journal as I knew I would have missed a lot but didn't expect it to be that much haha
> As normal always a pleasure to follow and admire your work
> Hope the family is all well and you have a great Christmas



Cheers Jay. This setup is fun, the 1200 size gives a lot of room to play. Glad to hear it’s not a boring read and well done for wading through, not the shortest journal 😂 

Merry Christmas to you and yours @Jayefc1 !
Hope you and your family have a good one 😎


----------



## Deano3

Amazing jurnal as always from @Geoffrey Rea hope you all have a great Christmas 🎄 look forward to more from you next year


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Deano3 said:


> Amazing jurnal as always from @Geoffrey Rea hope you all have a great Christmas 🎄 look forward to more from you next year



Merry Christmas to you and yours Dean 🎄 

Sorry for the delayed reply. Sat in the dark having a beer in the middle of the night, about to reply to you and had an intruder in the house! 😡 

Old fat man, said he was here to judge my kids!!! Well mate, Mr Judgy had a face wash in the 1200. Spirited for an ol’ man, thrashing around as he got water boarded. Quite the struggle. Think he splashed water on one of the RGB’s, hopefully it still works. Find out at lights on I guess.

Wrapped the body in the kids playskool mat and went out to the car. Bloomin’ deer outside! One had a red nose on him! Might have been a comic relief thing 🤷🏻‍♂️ Dunno…

Why they’re out driving for funds at 3am is beyond me. All tied together they were! No one even there to look after them. Would have done the responsible thing and called the RSPCA, but they all scarpered when the playskool mat unravelled, my bad 🤦🏻‍♂️ Hopefully they got home safe.

Bloody intruders and charities, on Christmas morn no less. Have these people no morals! Anyway… sorry for the delayed reply. Merry Christmas bud! Hopefully Santa brought you lots of… oh… 🤭


----------



## Djoko Sauza

For a second I thought you really had a crazy old man breaking in your house. Then I wondered why in the world would you dunk his head in the 1200??


----------



## Onoma1

Djoko Sauza said:


> For a second I thought you really had a crazy old man breaking in your house. Then I wondered why in the world would you dunk his head in the 1200??


I think he was showing him an algae free tank close up with amazing growth while muttering "that's what @omina1 wanted for Christmas last year". Glad you caught him.


----------



## bazz

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Sat in the dark having a beer in the middle of the night


I'll have a pint of what you've been drinking!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Getting there. Carpet removal and Tropica TPN+/ADA hybrid dosing is resulting in 3cm growth of stems per week on average. Like it, feels manageable. More to go around without the eleocharis carpet and seems pretty content:






Also… Fish having a munch:













Also got a very cool Christmas present from @Siege and @Delirious 





You know your mates know you when they notice what you stare at in the shop when no one is looking. Thank you both, love it 🥰


----------



## PARAGUAY

I had been hinting but that oblong bulky present wasnt a new filter or nano light but a Soup Maker . Think l had rehearsed any reaction


----------



## John q

PARAGUAY said:


> I had been hinting but that oblong bulky present wasnt a new filter or nano light but a Soup Maker .


Luxury... we used to dream of owing a soup maker. 😃

@Geoffrey Rea  the scape looks fantastic, I can't believe how you've turned this tank around in 6 weeks. True testament to your understanding of what goes on in these glass boxes.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

PARAGUAY said:


> Think l had rehearsed any reaction



The problem with this @PARAGUAY is everyone will now be thinking, WOW, really loves that soup maker. They’ll have already planned to get you a bread maker to go with it next year based on your reaction this year 😂



John q said:


> the scape looks fantastic



Cheers @John q feeling quite attached to this scape now. Think the changes were appropriate for the timing too. It’s growing strong, albeit at a slower pace.


----------



## PARAGUAY

Getting quite pleased with it now Geoff cant wait to try it and it was from my daughter who takes healthy eating to the max🙂 But my son who usually has a sense of what aquarium what l would like got be a collection of a winter coat socks and a jumper . Begining to sound bit scrooge like this is what aquariums do🤣


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Missed the one year, thirteen month, fourteen month update really. Tank got a bit cramped and unkempt after the new year:





Wasn’t short of super red that’s for sure.

Did a tear out after the new year and keeping the planting up since. Mainly for friends who have new setups on the way in the interim. Tank is pretty packed at the mo.

Still doing large water changes to manage K and keep other parameters honest:





Still running a green drop checker:





Still running a low level of surface agitation and flow:





TPN+ works well with S. repens for form and stem is almost woody:





Buce needs thinning out and showing the odd sign that dosing is lacking:





Finally conceded at fourteen months and placed some root tabs:





Not many though, twelve for the whole tank. Should increase availability but bottom plus is nitrate and micros so we’ll see how things sit this month. Only running 6ml per day of TPN+ and eyeballing additional K input. Keeps trucking and new growth seems alright even after a trim and replant:













The first two are planted into the sand and Pinnatifida is planted onto wood  so all are getting by with water column availability. Some early warning should anything go awry. Just the Buce kicking up a fuss.

Hope you’re enjoying your tanks and your hobby 😎


----------



## Ian Holdich

Wowsers what a stunning scape mate! 
Brilliant transition of colour and hitting that rule of two thirds.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ian Holdich said:


> Wowsers what a stunning scape mate!
> Brilliant transition of colour and hitting that rule of two thirds.



Cheers Ian and good to see you return 😉 Looking forward to seeing what you’re creating.


----------



## Mr.Shenanagins

Those white clouds look stunning! The tank looks beautiful. How long have you been dosing NH4 and do you dose this instead of KNO3 or together?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> Those white clouds look stunning! The tank looks beautiful. How long have you been dosing NH4 and do you dose this instead of KNO3 or together?



They’re pretty happy in there, well fed too.

Switched to TPN+ using NH4NO3 as N source in October.  Running the column with very little and continuing to rely on the substrate as much as possible. A lot of fish waste to remove each week though so still opting for large WC’s. It saves frequent filter cleaning so they only need opening up every three months.

Things are stable and maintenance is less than an hour per week, so hitting the desired outcome.


----------



## Garuf

Woof , only 6ml! I’m running 1ml per 10l and still get signs of mg and fe deficiency. 

Is it a low tds tank?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

The 1200 is cheerful but currently overgrown:





Still holding on to as much growth as possible in case anything is needed with a friends new scape at startup. Not sure the Green Neons approve though:





Think they’re missing their margins to patrol. Will be trimmed back eventually.

Beginning to fall back in love with simple contrasts of green:





Starting to reimagine this scape stripped back at the front to just green plants and hardscape back on show. Packing out the back with swords for height out of the water, raising the lights.

It’s proving hard to resist the itch to rescape, but it would be insanity given the setup at this stage of life is beautiful- it does not ask for attention.

Have always designed the scapes from a kids eye view looking up:





Trouble is the kids got taller lol need an additional layer above the surface to satisfy these days.

Could be nice to get back to a simple palette like the old 4ft tank:





Noticed Daisuke Inoue is creating scapes for the ADA gallery in this fashion of late. Really nice to see tanks that are just pleasant rather than a statement or a play on depth perception.


----------



## Karmicnull

Geoffrey Rea said:


> the setup at this stage of life is beautiful- it does not ask for attention.


Completely agree - I love tanks jam packed with plants, nooks and crannies.   Looking fabulous!


----------



## jns

Fabulous, I like the shaggy look.


----------



## Courtneybst

Hey Geoffrey, I picked up some Phyton Git Sol to treat a small but of cyanobacteria I've got. It seems to work but it says 1ml doses (seemingly no matter the size of the tank?) and also doesn't say how often you can dose. Any ideas?

Cheers


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Wow that really looks amazing. I've seen so much great looking tanks these they but they all are alot alike. It's just what the hype is.. Yours truly stands out, just so vivid.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Courtneybst said:


> Hey Geoffrey, I picked up some Phyton Git Sol to treat a small but of cyanobacteria I've got. It seems to work but it says 1ml doses (seemingly no matter the size of the tank?) and also doesn't say how often you can dose. Any ideas?
> 
> Cheers



Hey @Courtneybst

Back in post #623 you can see general spray use with 10ml per 100ml of water.

If you’re injecting into the substrate to remove cyano against the glass then 1ml per 5cm section is fair and effective.

You may find one treatment enough.



DeepMetropolis said:


> Wow that really looks amazing. I've seen so much great looking tanks these they but they all are alot alike. It's just what the hype is.. Yours truly stands out, just so vivid.



Cheers @DeepMetropolis

Not to be the bearer of bad news but this setup is being torn down indefinitely soon. Been mulling it over and the 1200 is going bye bye.


----------



## Courtneybst

Geoffrey Rea said:


> 1ml per 5cm section is fair and effective.


Thanks mate! I'll go for that.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not to be the bearer of bad news but this setup is being torn down indefinitely soon


WHAT! 😳


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not to be the bearer of bad news but this setup is being torn down indefinitely soon. Been mulling it over and the 1200 is going bye bye.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not to be the bearer of bad news but this setup is being torn down indefinitely soon. Been mulling it over and the 1200 is going bye bye.


Ooh yeah it's a pity but all good things comes to an end. It is responsibility you have to keep up with, sometimes think I could do with less tanks but i just don't want to break anything down.
So you are going Saltwater only now?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

DeepMetropolis said:


> Ooh yeah it's a pity but all good things comes to an end. It is responsibility you have to keep up with, sometimes think I could do with less tanks but i just don't want to break anything down.
> So you are going Saltwater only now?



Nothing too dramatic @DeepMetropolis . Dropping from four systems down to three, free up some time.

Instead, will be helping folks setup their tanks (for a small fee) on a business basis with the time. Getting more hands on beyond the forum and creating some success with their setups. 

Helping a few folks already with their dosing and designing their maintenance to work in unison.

George did a video recently of a tank as an example. It has a custom schedule that has been put together to run with extremely hard tap and account for agricultural runoff in the area:



It’s nice to get specific with folks setups so they can maximise results for their available time. Also available to newcomers in the Cambridgeshire area who may just need that extra help getting started. There’s a lot to take in when you first start out.


----------



## John q

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Also available to newcomers in the Cambridgeshire area


Lancashire cheese, hotpot. You need to widen the horizons 🙏


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

John q said:


> Lancashire cheese, hotpot. You need to widen the horizons 🙏



Up in Lancashire regularly so nothings out 👍🏽


----------



## Deano3

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Nothing too dramatic @DeepMetropolis . Dropping from four systems down to three, free up some time.
> 
> Instead, will be helping folks setup their tanks (for a small fee) on a business basis with the time. Getting more hands on beyond the forum and creating some success with their setups.
> 
> Helping a few folks already with their dosing and designing their maintenance to work in unison.
> 
> George did a video recently of a tank as an example. It has a custom schedule that has been put together to run with extremely hard tap and account for agricultural runoff in the area:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s nice to get specific with folks setups so they can maximise results for their available time. Also available to newcomers in the Cambridgeshire area who may just need that extra help getting started. There’s a lot to take in when you first start out.



Great to hear you will be assisting others as you have with so many on here, your journals are always a pleasure to read and always so helpful and insightful 😁 glad your still keeping some tanks.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not to be the bearer of bad news but this setup is being torn down indefinitely soon. Been mulling it over and the 1200 is going bye bye.



Change of plan. There’s been a reprieve… RESCAPE!!! 🤣

May get a decade of decadence out of this setup yet… 😎


----------



## Courtneybst

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Change of plan. There’s been a reprieve… RESCAPE!!! 🤣
> 
> May get a decade of decadence out of this setup yet… 😎


Yessss!


----------



## Deano3

Yes cant wait to see what you've did mate 😁


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Quick round up. Tank is about to be torn down but realised it’s just gone over a year and a half.





Last water change was in March and TDS/conductivity has remained consistent:





Damn thing has become bomb proof in its neglect. Co2 ran out, must have been for at least a few days and survived without consequence. Ferts ran out in the autodoser without being noticed. No bother, started manually dosing as and when thereafter. Kept trucking.

Plant form and colour are crap, but reasonably healthy:













Anyway, as before, bomb proof. However, all things must come to an end. Gonna take a while to take this one down but will be interesting to see what is growing under that jungly mess.


----------



## Wookii

So now you've been vetoed on the giant iwagumi, what is the plan @Geoffrey Rea?


----------



## Conort2

Love it when a tank gets mature it enough that it can take anything in its stride, I quite like the overgrown look if I’m honest.

biotope/natural style next would be nice if you fancied something completely different.


----------



## Yugang

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Tank is about to be torn down


If you're trying to scare us ... succeeded 😢
Perhaps some minor trimming, and then more updates with pictures?

Love this tank 😍


----------



## Laoshan

Wookii said:


> So now you've been vetoed on the giant iwagumi, what is the plan @Geoffrey Rea?



Going back to growing vegetables would be the responsible thing to do given the current food prices 😆 

BTW Great journal, very inspirational!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Laoshan said:


> Going back to growing vegetables would be the responsible thing to do given the current food prices 😆











Never stopped 😉 Pulled parsnips from this morning.

Also having a play with house plants this year. Getting good results with this Calathea:









Always been a bit useless with house plants, but working on decreasing the kill rate 😂 



Wookii said:


> So now you've been vetoed on the giant iwagumi, what is the plan @Geoffrey Rea?



Scaping under the cover of darkness when they’re all asleep @Wookii 🥷🏽


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Scaping under the cover of darkness when they’re all asleep @Wookii 🥷🏽



Good stuff - I always find its less painful and more productive asking for forgiveness than permission! 😂


----------



## Hanuman

Never came down this road before. Spectacular tank! But as usual I'm arriving late to the party... or maybe early for the next episode?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> Good stuff - I always find its less painful and more productive asking for forgiveness than permission! 😂



Agreed, although we’re graduating to just say nothing and cracking on 😂 See if they even notice.



Hanuman said:


> But as usual I'm arriving late to the party... or maybe early for the next episode?



There better be another as we’re approaching a ridiculous amount spent on hardscape for this next project. There’s another on the way, for sure. Decade of decadence…



Wookii said:


> So now you've been vetoed on the giant iwagumi, what is the plan @Geoffrey Rea?



Did warn everyone here that the giant Iwagumi was the cheap option. To answer your question properly @Wookii doing the next scape as a comp scape. Looky nicey from one angle deal…  Not particularly interested in entering, but without the threat of judgement and commitment to that one angle,  know that the proverbial finger won’t be pulled out.

There’s 200kg of stone and an eye watering amount of wood being gathered to play with. Five/six bags of soil, powder and Powersand.

If it can be pulled off… got classic old school ADA scaping methods in mind with height right to the waterline, akin to Green Aqua’s style of banking up extremely high so the back is very shallow. It also gives a gargantuan amount of banked nutrition. With appropriately selected species think there’ll be a fair bit of mileage from the substrate.

If we’re skipping comp entry then can maybe go with emersed growth out of the scape from the get go. No ‘in-tank only’ photo to worry about and can reach for the sky. Considering a second set of lighting source above the Solar RGB’s to make this work longer term as it gains height.

Anyway… all in this time @Wookii

We’ll see if we can combine all the experience over the years into one setup. Truth be told, found this last scape to be a disappointment but it fitted in with the time constraints at the time. Never too late to try again.


----------



## John q

Geoffrey Rea said:


> There’s 200kg of stone and an eye watering amount of wood being gathered to play with. Five/six bags of soil, powder and Powersand


Ohh we do like to be beside the sea side... what you thinking, black water scape, or power driven algae farm... suspect you'll succeed with whatever you put the minds eye to 🥰


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

John q said:


> what you thinking, black water scape, or power driven algae farm...



In Purigen we trust @John q …






The wood being used hasn’t been leaching tannins really from looking at a scape that uses the same. Been keeping an eye on it.

Could be an interesting startup process to share. Those five/six bags of soil and bag of powder are ADA Amazonia type 1… plenty of ammonia.



John q said:


> suspect you'll succeed with whatever you put the minds eye to 🥰



Just need to understand the assignment, then execute. Tank will need a tight leash this time around.


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> There’s 200kg of stone and an eye watering amount of wood being gathered to play with. Five/six bags of soil, powder and Powersand.



 . . . is there going to to be any water in this scape? 😂



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Anyway… all in this time @Wookii



Awesome sauce! 



Geoffrey Rea said:


> We’ll see if we can combine all the experience over the years into one setup. Truth be told, found this last scape to be a disappointment but it fitted in with the time constraints at the time. Never too late to try again.



I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there, 99% of folks on here would be over the moon with that scape. That said, it will be interesting to see you put yourself 'under the cosh' with something that's really going to test your skills!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Wookii said:


> . . . is there going to to be any water in this scape? 😂



That is very much an important question that has some others attached to it. Will be measuring the total water volume going in to measure displacement, the water volume will be significantly lower than usual this time. 

Obviously need to know for water column dosing but it’s also causing concern over keeping the current stock.

Love the Green Neons and they’ve been with us since 2017. They’re as much family as tetras can be considered family. But there’s 60-70 of them:





There’s also the White Cloud Mountain Minnows as well. Swimming space will be minimal. Gonna hurt but may have to give them to a new home.



Wookii said:


> I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there, 99% of folks on here would be over the moon with that scape.



Just become majorly unimpressed and ‘a glass half empty and draining fast…’ sort of person with scapes lately. 

However, watching Pavol Kulanda at AG scape the hell out of the AS900 lit a fire under my ass 🔥 Think his no nonsense approach with no philosophical diatribe attached really struck a chord. 




Wookii said:


> That said, it will be interesting to see you put yourself 'under the cosh' with something that's really going to test your skills!



It’s simple really… Just looking for, ‘oh my gawd… did we really create that?!?’ every time you walk into the room 😂


----------



## Garuf

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s simple really… Just looking for, ‘oh my gawd… did we really create that?!?’ every time you walk into the room 😂


Hmm. 
That’s an interesting one… 
I often think the best scapes are the ones where you can’t see a creators hand at all yet it’s the ones that are extremely literal that get all the whiz bang comments and you can see the artificially of it all in the work. 
Is it a waterfall or does it make you think of waterfalls.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s simple really… Just looking for, ‘_oh my gawd… did we really create that_?!?’ every time you walk into the room


<"Either this one"> or <"SpongeBob SquarePants">?

cheers Darrel


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Garuf said:


> Hmm.
> That’s an interesting one…
> I often think the best scapes are the ones where you can’t see a creators hand at all yet it’s the ones that are extremely literal that get all the whiz bang comments and you can see the artificially of it all in the work.
> Is it a waterfall or does it make you think of waterfalls.



Don’t really know @Garuf . Was with @Ady34 and @Tim Harrison chatting about ‘where’ scapes come from, or what drives design.

Sure they’ll correct if this is wrong but Ady works from a concept, Tim with a clear idea of what he wants to see, myself ‘off the cuff’ in the moment from a feeling that may pop in whilst placing. Obviously the three aren’t mutually exclusive when putting something together but we all have preferences about the process.


----------



## Deano3

As always cant wait to see what you come up with as sure will be inspirational for the rest of us 😁 and be very helpful


----------



## Ady34

Garuf said:


> Hmm.
> That’s an interesting one…
> I often think the best scapes are the ones where you can’t see a creators hand at all yet it’s the ones that are extremely literal that get all the whiz bang comments and you can see the artificially of it all in the work.
> Is it a waterfall or does it make you think of waterfalls.





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Don’t really know @Garuf . Was with @Ady34 and @Tim Harrison chatting about ‘where’ scapes come from, or what drives design.
> 
> Sure they’ll correct if this is wrong but Ady works from a concept, Tim with a clear idea of what he wants to see, myself ‘off the cuff’ in the moment from a feeling that may pop in whilst placing. Obviously the three aren’t mutually exclusive when putting something together but we all have preferences about the process.


It’s an interesting point. I think that’s what makes aquascaping so accessible. It is versatile and individual. You can create whatever you like, if you put your work forward in a public domain some will like what you do and others will not. Everyone has preferences and the longer I ‘do’ this hobby the more appreciative I’ve become of other styles. Whilst I cannot see myself wanting to live with certain styles I can appreciate the creativity and skill. I agree with you @Garuf that the ones that you can’t see a creators hand are often the best in the purist NA style as they look most natural and hit the; it makes you think of ‘the waterfall’ rather than replicating one. The stones and wood are positioned as it could in nature and the planting looks natural around it all. That is a personal preference though, and the NA style is still a style, just less contrived than say diorama.
I am hugely interested to see what you create @Geoffrey Rea, 200kg of stone 😱 With the wood also chosen already do you not have an idea of what you want to create or literally will you just pick them up and see what happens?
Like you say I tend to have an idea or concept first and use the hardscape to then create that.  My last few scapes in particular have been from strong ideas and layouts practiced in dojos from concepts. When using new hardscape materials this method can be more cost effective as you can pick and buy the particular hardscape pieces you use in store rather than needing a huge selection and variety at home. I’m not sure I’d like to pop some hardscape down and see what happens, although it might be quite refreshing. At least you have your stone and wood types chosen so are working within those limitations.
You are also creating a single viewpoint based scape, is this simply to challenge yourself or do you predominantly view this tank from a particular position so it makes sense to scape this way? It’s interesting how as scapers we offer ourselves different challenges or restrictions. I work to a concept so that almost dictates my thought process, you are more free hardscaping but with other limitations in mind in this instance single viewpoint and high banked substrate.
I will look forward to following progress and it was nice to put a face to the name the other week and have a natter about the hobby.
Cheerio.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ady34 said:


> I am hugely interested to see what you create @Geoffrey Rea, 200kg of stone 😱 With the wood also chosen already do you not have an idea of what you want to create or literally will you just pick them up and see what happens?



Pretty much. However, this is exactly how it was when working at Aquarium Gardens. It’s business as usual really. Customer walks in, wants a scape, doesn’t have a clue what though, then you just start creating…

Without a concept you have to have lots of materials, be willing to cut/snap wood, be willing to shatter rock to fit as there’s always unforeseen circumstances without a plan around a set amount of materials.



Ady34 said:


> You are also creating a single viewpoint based scape, is this simply to challenge yourself or do you predominantly view this tank from a particular position so it makes sense to scape this way?



It makes no sense at all, there’s a wall directly opposite and views are from left and right angles 😂 Will have to do a George and get a stool to sit on to enjoy the view….



Ady34 said:


> I work to a concept so that almost dictates my thought process, you are more free hardscaping but with other limitations in mind



It’s far smarter to work towards materialising desire, than to desire to materialise. Certainly cheaper. Do miss the practice of churning out scape after scape on the regular for customers as wasn’t paying the bill.

You said it best @Ady34 :



Ady34 said:


> I think that’s what makes aquascaping so accessible. It is versatile and individual. You can create whatever you like, if you put your work forward in a public domain some will like what you do and others will not. Everyone has preferences and the longer I ‘do’ this hobby the more appreciative I’ve become of other styles.



Appreciating others and the way they do things is in short supply in this world. Love hanging out with scapers as they’re always curious and unthreatened by difference.



Ady34 said:


> I will look forward to following progress and it was nice to put a face to the name the other week and have a matter about the hobby.



Likewise buddy and I’m sure, with time, I too will come to like it vertically 😂


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> I agree with you @Garuf that the ones that you can’t see a creators hand are often the best in the purist NA style as they look most natural and hit the; it makes you think of ‘the waterfall’ rather than replicating one. The stones and wood are positioned as it could in nature’s  and the planting looks natural around it all. That is a personal preference though, and the NA style is still a style, just less contrived than say diorama.


That goes for me too. The question often foremost in my mind when I'm scaping is... does it look natural and is it likely to occur through natural processes? Next question is… can I achieve a similar look with less hardscape? Less is often more.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Tim with a clear idea of what he wants to see, myself ‘off the cuff’ in the moment from a feeling that may pop in whilst placing.


I pretty much always start out with a clear idea of the scape I want to create. Likewise there are considerations like angle of view, materials at my disposal, maintenance, and planting. However, I’m always open to the moment and the impulse of inspiration, so the creative process is fluid.

Looking forward to seeing what you’re going to do with all that hardscape and soil Geoff. Either way the hard part is growing healthy plants; that’s something you definitely don’t have a problem with.

Always enjoy chatting with you guys, and I’m even warming to the idea of liking it vertically 😁


----------



## PARAGUAY

Interesting a lot more than l thought the ADA creators use photographs of the natural world. In that way they never,to me, appear like contest aquariums but the natural world. Could be the influence of the great man himself


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Huzzah!

Wood finally arrived:





Texture is awesome:





Plenty of emersed L. arcuata for the next one too:





Going to try and restrict the poaching from the current setup to emersed growth only. Left everything to grow out. There’s so much moss floating around and would rather not introduce it to the new scape. It would become nigh impossible to control with all the holes in the wood.

So this will be scape #3 in the 1200.

Scape #1 was a triangular using hard tap:









Scape #2 a poorly executed valley scape using RO:





But it was fun playing with plant forms in soft water and has lasted 19 months. Can’t grumble.

Then scape #3 is going to be hardscape heavy for a bit of diversity. Excited now wood/rock is all gathered and ready to go, looking forward to another crack at a 1200 scape.


----------



## Paulus

That first scape is/was still a masterpiece.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Looking forward to what you come up with


----------



## CooKieS

Love this wood, used it for my iaplc tank this year.  

Can’t wait to see your next artwork!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Temporary plant holding tank up and running:





Just a few plants to get started. Will be adding a ton to this tank in the coming days. Existing media cleared the water in 24 hours. Also preserves the memory from the filters media and can use it to seed the next setup.

Looking for multiple branched stems after several cuts, roots and all to plant into the next scape. Shouldn’t skip a beat. A lot of these plants have been smothered by growth,  starved of light or left to go emersed. Can get them back to proper form in here in the meantime. Will also use the soil from the holding tank in the 1200 for a jump start.



CooKieS said:


> Can’t wait to see your next artwork!



Already know the design is going to be taxing @CooKieS

Between the submersed and emersed growth the scape will be a 4ft x 4ft wall of plants. It’s the 2ft of emersed growth that requires thought. All new but have a good friend for advice. The submersed growth will be up against flow issues due to the amount of scape involved but… that’s just scaping.



DeepMetropolis said:


> Looking forward to what you come up with //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png



It’s coming @DeepMetropolis . Just got a few stages to get through. Need to clear the desired plants into the holding tank. Hack the lot down in the 1200.

Then acclimating the fish to hard water again in the 1200 as is. The Green Neons are going in Tai Strietman ‘s 900 scape in Aquarium Gardens. Then net the rest and it’s all getting torn down.

Quite frankly the scaping part will be so much easier than all this faff 😂



Paulus said:


> That first scape is/was still a masterpiece.



Many thanks @Paulus  🙏🏽  Proud of that one as it shows that hard tap water isn’t, and never will be, a barrier to aquascaping.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Halfway there… woah oh…






Decent amount of Buce was on the wood on the left. Box is 26x17 inches:





Tear down has been easier than expected so far.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Very nice 👍


----------



## PARAGUAY

The first steps are the hardest ,halfway  you feel better


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> Very nice 👍





PARAGUAY said:


> The first steps are the hardest ,halfway  you feel better



Twelve hour take down this time. Finished up about midnight.





But not a single scratch on the tank.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Lava rock all dry and safely away:





Soon….









Every tank in the house will have been rescaped within a month soon. Causing absolute carnage but fun. Even had the garden gate off to get tanks in/out:





 All will be improvements so all in all worth the temporary hassle. 





Green Neons safely re-homed in the 900 scape by @taistrietman in @Aquarium Gardens now. Nice to pop in and see them. Some of the batch have been with us since 2016 and it’s great to see them in a species specific setup.

On the home front… Once the 1200 marine is up and running this week moving the freshwater 1200 alongside. It sulks in the conservatory for the time being:





The temporary plant storage tank is pretty much full and ready to get going too:





Exciting times… 😎

However, the wife has built a funny wooden structure outside whilst all this has been taking place.

Also has some shady tie sort of formation on it. Says that one is a for me and the other for any other bright ideas that might pop up 🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Oh boy. It’s going to be a very good month 😁





Two 1200’s to scape… 😘

Solar RGB’s back on, sort that picture out, hardscape out and have a gander at what’s possible 😎


----------



## Ady34

Looking forward to the scaping Geoff…….
The last two have been epic, enjoy it 🙌🏻


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Ady34 said:


> Looking forward to the scaping Geoff…….
> The last two have been epic, enjoy it 🙌🏻



🙌🏼 🙌🏼 🙌🏼 





Thank you @Ady34 🙏🏽 Been a while coming this one, but finally ready.

Will get rolling tomorrow. Gonna be sweet 😎


----------



## Ady34

Picture sorted, all ready to go 👌🏻


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nothing quite like a blank canvas. Looking forward to this Geoff 👍


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Gonna be a nightmare @Tim Harrison …

4 to 5 bags of Amazonia type 1 to go in, enough wood to tea stain the water forever, natural light pouring in from the left, starting with fresh sterile media as it’s all been left dry, light at 100% from day one and a ton of water displacement from rock/wood/soil reducing the net water volume.

Cannot wait 😂 🤣 😂

Proper showdown…


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha, that is a challenge. But I think if anyone can make it happen you can. Either way it'll be one heck of a journey


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Gonna be a nightmare @Tim Harrison …
> 
> 4 to 5 bags of Amazonia type 1 to go in, enough wood to tea stain the water forever, natural light pouring in from the left, starting with fresh sterile media as it’s all been left dry, light at 100% from day one and a ton of water displacement from rock/wood/soil reducing the net water volume.
> 
> Cannot wait 😂 🤣 😂
> 
> Proper showdown…
> 
> View attachment 193172



As @Tim Harrison  says, if anyone can do it, you can Geoffrey. Let me get comfortable, this is going to be a interesting one!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Couple of bits of Seiryu stone in there that need taking out, but rest is a Frodo/Elderly (it’s bloody limestone regardless of what they call it folks) mix:





Few larger pieces of Elderly with good shadowing prospects:





And finally the Dragon wood shipment that took months to show up:





Not a clue what we’re gonna create here, see where it goes 🤔


----------



## Wookii

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Couple of bits of Seiryu stone in there that need taking out, but rest is a Frodo/Elderly (it’s bloody limestone regardless of what they call it folks) mix:
> 
> View attachment 193179
> 
> Few larger pieces of Elderly with good shadowing prospects:
> 
> View attachment 193180
> 
> And finally the Dragon wood shipment that took months to show up:
> 
> View attachment 193181
> 
> Not a clue what we’re gonna create here, see where it goes 🤔



Good to see a fellow hardscape hoarder!

Lots of stone with CaCO3 in too, so no soft water either? The challenges mount!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Jesus, Mary and Joseph… the interruptions today are 11 out of 10 😂

Got some of the wood in:





View from the kitchen door. More wood available but time yet to reconsider whilst cooking dinner.

View from the front:





Some odd angles there that will disappear with the planting. Left room at the sides for mid ground planting to reflect on the side glass. Give the illusion that the tank is wider.



Wookii said:


> Lots of stone with CaCO3 in too, so no soft water either? The challenges mount!



Despite the volume available, may not actually use too much @Wookii . The detail from the wood would be ruined by large pieces so leaning towards smaller fragments.


----------



## Courtneybst

Love this! So much drama! I almost think you don't need rock.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Courtneybst said:


> Love this! So much drama! I almost think you don't need rock.



It almost looks like stone in parts Courtney.

Never done a wood only scape… 🤔 Now you got me thinking…


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

An extra layer for those that like these things sort of things:





Will work on the left foreground some more, just need to snap some more wood.


----------



## seedoubleyou

Real strong hardscape. Always a pleasure to see how people have a real talent for aquascaping.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Jesus, Mary and Joseph


…and the wee donkey….

Looking good. The wood is so structural it could easily work well on its own as a ryoboku scape. But maybe adding rocks will help create more layers and perhaps add more tension. But only you can be the judge of that.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> Looking good. The wood is so structural it could easily look good on its own as a ryuboku scape. But maybe adding rocks will help create more layers and perhaps add more tension.
















Few subtle changes to the foreground, but it’s getting a bit gratuitous at this point @Tim Harrison . Any further layering would have to be achieved by rock as you say or through planting.

In the last hour had a neighbour knock round for a parcel that turned into a thirty minute chat, then was alerted to a blocked toilet… think someone up there 👆🏼 wants this game to stop for today.

Welcome to the beautiful world of aquascaping… 😂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Slept on it and quick review over a morning coffee.

Happy with the planting zones and potential flow and distribution errors, they’re manageable:





















Also looks good from kid height which is important in this house, keep them engaged:





Not a clue whether we’ll tackle all the issues this scape would have with sand foreground, or maybe just go all soil. Rock? Who knows 🤷🏻‍♂️  Cross that bridge when we get to it.

Will glue everything down and together with JBL Pro Haru first:





Give it a good four days to adhere. Sort everything else thereafter.

If you haven’t used this stuff it’s really useful albeit messy. Just need to be gentle squeezing the tube

You can attach hardscape directly to the glass with just a dab the size of a pound coin (let it dry for 72 hours properly). No floating hardscape.

When it comes to rescape time, twist and it comes straight off. Easily picked off your wood and rock too.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Looks fantastic; multi-layered, hugely impactful and photogenic. Could we be seeing the beginnings of a competition scape?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> Looks fantastic; multi-layered, hugely impactful and photogenic. Could we be seeing the beginnings of a competition scape?



Thought about this and competing doesn’t personally mean anything for myself Tim. The hobby is self satisfying in this house, it has no ulterior purpose.

Did several scapes yesterday, one that was a banger from a single viewpoint. Problem is it looked naff from every other angle. Couldn’t live with that so tore it down immediately.

The next one was the one you see, it looks pretty sweet from every angle but the front 🤷🏻‍♂️

As far as we’re aware, not a 3ft 8inch tall man who stares directly at the tank from the front very often so we’re all gravy 😂


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Rinsey rinse…





Wouldn’t normally rinse hardscape, but there’s a ton of stuff inside all those hollows that is better off out before we start:





Few dead bugs and feathers too…

Most importantly, all glued down appropriately. No floaters:





Gone with @Tim Harrison ‘s suggestion and keeping this a wood only/ryoboku scape. Rock doesn’t add anything.

Drained the water and crud out. Soil in next and will see how it spills from the back corners before considering sand for the foreground.


----------



## Tim Harrison

That is some depth of perspective you've managed to create, even allowing for the visual compression caused by water. 
Looking forward to seeing it grounded with substrate, and all those layers defined with planting.


----------



## Paulus

wow!......


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> That is some depth of perspective you've managed to create, even allowing for the visual compression caused by water.



Aye, it’s all set to work out and could easily be lost in the planting. Still confused as to how much credence to give depth over plant variety and abundance.

Looking to capping each line of the wood with maybe UG or MC or Riccardia to keep clean lines with the detail and shadow on the underside of the wood available. Beginning to think less variety will have more impact.

Got plenty of light pouring down and distribution is going to be challenging. Access for trimming is actually alright despite the way things look, always a plus.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Beginning to think less variety will have more impact


I was thinking along similar lines too. Also, if you'd be happy with the way the hardscape sits in the substrate when it's added.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Tim Harrison said:


> I was thinking along similar lines too. Also, if you'd be happy with the way the hardscape sits in the substrate when it's added.



This is it, all must obey gravity. There’s so many holes in the wood that usual tricks don’t work. Rock, gone. Floss, visible. Work with what we get within the confines, sure there’s something clever to be had out of it.

Going heavy planting with carpeting could hold it together though. Just have to be gentle with water changes initially. Planting on top of wood negates algal issues locally mostly.

There’s plenty of inspiration from the IAPLC this year. Lots of flowing carpeting plants over ledges executed well. Also capping soil up to the front glass with sand, leaving several inches at the front of just sand in the foreground. They let the plants spread to the front with soil access just a wee bit back and you see no soil from a front view. 

Struggle with high banked soil against the front glass on the left and right side, but again there were some entries that shadowed it so well with healthy growth that it was only noticeable as an after thought.


----------



## Tim Harrison

It’s going to look awesome 😎


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Will be honest Tim. Not a clue what’s going to happen 😂 Glad you’re confident 🤣


----------



## Deano3

Love the scape, great perspective,  really exited for this one , following with great interest 😀


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Hey @Deano3  great to hear from you bud 😎  

Hope you’re well fella.


----------



## Wookii

Fantastic looking woodwork there @Geoffrey Rea - it's almost a shame to plant it and potentially loose some of those stark angular shapes of the wood. I'll be interested to see what you do with the substrate at the front and through the centre - will you be going with light coloured sand/gravel substrate for contrast?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

Looking for some stretch this time @Wookii so willing to try new and different techniques that are unfamiliar. 

The foreground to centre back could be capped with sand on top of soil once the soil has settled. 





Will have to be gentle planting to avoid mixing it up and avoid species that need frequently tearing up.

Mixed planting with single plants dotted through to the back, graded by leaf size; repens, patches of various carpeting species, bits of Riccardia on pebbles etc, Pavol’s trick of eleocharis at the very back centre to give distance and scale. The tough bit personally will be leaving empty patches of sand where you know you could grow a plant 😂 It is very difficult to break the ‘farm’ mentality to spare growing space.

Going to try and aim for ‘see no soil’ from the front view. Sand to the glass and even capping soil with pebbles higher up so there’s no soil visible. Have found seeing any soil takes you away from the scape.

The wood has been soaking for a while now so confident nothing will float:





Full ADA substrate in today, fill and leave dark with the filters running. Tomorrow have an empty house so can plant up in relative peace without the distractions. See how we go…


----------



## Ady34

It’s looking epic mate. 
The wood has such definition and detail you are right to leave the stones out. I feel they would be fighting one another for attention 🤣
Looking forward to seeing the substrate in as that ties everything together…..then the plants of course.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Full ADA substrate in today, fill and leave dark with the filters running. Tomorrow have an empty house so can plant up in relative peace without the distractions. See how we go…


Came here excited for an update on this, left unfulfilled.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea

This is the end of this journal. Hope you have all enjoyed the banter, laughs and tank talk. It’s been fun 😎

However, the tank carries on forward, forever destroying our finances. The Decade of Decadence continues on in this journal, The Original.


----------

