# Clay soil as substrate / liner for baskets



## killi69 (11 Jun 2020)

I am building a few ponds next month and was hoping to use soil from my garden as substrate (in pond baskets only) for both marginal and oxygenating plants.  I would prefer not to use an inert substrate, especially for the marginals, nor do I want to spend too much on aquatic compost .  I have clay soil in my garden which I was planning to use.  What would be better, using clay subsoil or the heavy loam (clay) topsoil? I would remove any obvious organic matter and only take from places in garden which have not been fertilised. Would the clay subsoil be too thick/ impenetrable for water flow/oxygen?

Also, I was planning wide shelves in the ponds and was going to include bale arm supermarket type baskets like in pic below to plant in.  They are 60x40 x20cm deep, so would give wider planting spaces than most baskets and  provide more stability for taller marginals in like Typha,  Phragmites, Scirpus etc.  

What do people recommend as a liner - hessian or is there something better?  

Any comments or tips most welcome!

Thanks, Andre


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## rebel (12 Jun 2020)

one wonders whether you need baskets without holes in them.

Clay soil will be fine but you will need to cap it with coarse sand layer. Put a layer of pumice/lava rock at bottom of clay with root tab for each plant that you put it.


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## mort (12 Jun 2020)

I'm not sure about the soil, my hunch is that it could be to nutrient plentiful but I think Darrel will be able to help.

The thing that concerns me a little is the reeds and bullrushes. Living in the norfolk broads I am surrounded by them and the one thing you notice is how vigorous they are, making them better suited to a lake than a pond, but also how deep they are rooted. You see them in shallow water but only when they have grown out of the water, most are two or more feet below the surface. If you tried to pull one up you would be there all day because the roots go deep and far. I think in your baskets you will just be propping them up most of the time. Personally I would advise them for a pond unless it's on a grand scale or a purposely designed filtration section.


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## dw1305 (12 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 





killi69 said:


> What would be better, using clay subsoil or the heavy loam (clay) topsoil?





mort said:


> I'm not sure about the soil, my hunch is that it could be to nutrient plentiful





rebel said:


> Clay soil will be fine but you will need to cap it with coarse sand layer.


Yes, I'd go for the clay sub-soil, to try and reduce the initial nutrient load. I think you will need to cap it as @rebel suggests.





killi69 said:


> They are 60x40 x20cm deep, so would give wider planting spaces than most baskets and provide more stability for taller marginals in like Typha, Phragmites, Scirpus etc.





mort said:


> The thing that concerns me a little is the reeds and bullrushes.


I think the boxes are good, but I would be very wary about planting anything too rampant as well. _Typha minima _would be an option. At work they put _Carex riparia _in the new "newt ponds" and it was great for a couple of years, but now it is a fen rather than a pond. _Eleocharis palustris  _could substitute for _Schoenoplectus etc._


killi69 said:


> What do people recommend as a liner - hessian


I still like hessian.

cheers Darrel


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## mort (12 Jun 2020)

mort said:


> Personally I *wouldn't* advise them for a pond unless it's on a grand scale or a purposely designed filtration section.



That should have said I wouldn't recommend them for ponds but useless auto correct changed it. There are smaller, more sensible species as Darrel suggests however. I've used vegetable crates in my pond and they work well so I don't have a problem with the crates. I didn't use any substrate with my flag iris, just added the plants with a nice root ball and some stones to wedge them in. They seem to grow more rampant than I'd like without it.


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## killi69 (12 Jun 2020)

mort said:


> I'm not sure about the soil, my hunch is that it could be to nutrient plentiful but I think Darrel will be able to help.
> 
> The thing that concerns me a little is the reeds and bullrushes. Living in the norfolk broads I am surrounded by them and the one thing you notice is how vigorous they are, making them better suited to a lake than a pond, but also how deep they are rooted. You see them in shallow water but only when they have grown out of the water, most are two or more feet below the surface. If you tried to pull one up you would be there all day because the roots go deep and far. I think in your baskets you will just be propping them up most of the time. Personally I would advise them for a pond unless it's on a grand scale or a purposely designed filtration section.


Lucky you! That sounds amazing.  I grew up in Holland and spent most of my youth fishing along the reed beds, which partly explains why I am so looking forward to having some  in my garden.



dw1305 said:


> Yes, I'd go for the clay sub-soil, to try and reduce the initial nutrient load. I think you will need to cap it as @rebel suggests.


Yes, thank you, will do. I still have lots of bonsai soil/ cat litter I could use for this



dw1305 said:


> I think the boxes are good, but I would be very wary about planting anything too rampant as well. _Typha minima _would be an option. At work they put _Carex riparia _in the new "newt ponds" and it was great for a couple of years, but now it is a fen rather than a pond. _Eleocharis palustris _could substitute for _Schoenoplectus etc._


Thank you for the suggestions Darrel! Will definitely look into the Eleocharis palustris

Thank you Rebel and Mort also. 

Up and till now, I have been keeping tubs outdoors, although they have been quite neglected for a couple of years s.  They are in full sun now and looked better when in semi shade at my old house three years ago. Plants include Typha, I think T augustifolia and  T laxmannii, as well a bit of T minima. Also have a  Scirpus tabernaemontani 'Albescens' in there. And some Phragmites australis variegatus (I think) which really do not grow that tall. 

Most have not been repotted for years and are not looking too great (bit pale and yellow tips on leaves) which was also why I was wondering about clay soil as a substrate. Some of them have aquatic compost from shop, some are in clay subsoil, some in clay topsoil. I have not paid enough attention to find out the difference on the plants.

Perhaps because they do not get enough nutrients that I have been able to manage them in baskets.  Only one or two baskets are so overgrown (in terms of mass of roots coming out underneath) that they topple over in high wind but most seem to be fine (and have been in the basket for 4 years or more).


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## frederick thompson (18 Jun 2020)

I use these type of baskets and all I use is pebbles. And the pond nutrients do the rest
Iris Lilly's and dutch rush . As mort said just wedge them in and pour a layer of pebbles
Over the top of the roots.
Link https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/2239721225...ZhJYNYTFTWRmsC_j5LzNTuVOu7hNA-tRoCa2wQAvD_BwE
Fred



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## not called Bob (31 Aug 2020)

the last true planted pond I built I used fullers earth, provided by unscented clumping cat litter, plants grew very well, but that was in an area of wildlife only, areas with fish I used very course gravel


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