# how many bubbles per second?



## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

As the title says. Im sure summut aint right my newly filled 2kg tank only came up as 50 on the preasure gauge


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## Stu Worrall (27 Nov 2010)

thats about right for the internal pressure of a co2 tank


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

and is it normal for the preasure to go right down when the soleniod kicks in?


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## danmil3s (27 Nov 2010)

if the soleniod is between the bottle and the gauge which it sounds like it is which regulator is it


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

its a JBL


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## danmil3s (27 Nov 2010)

i use a Dennrle reg but alot of people use the jbls. if when your solenoid cones on, your presser goes up and gas comes out sounds, like every thing is working fine.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

i will have to wait and see what it does tomoz. What bubble rare should i be using?


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (27 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> As the title says. Im sure summut aint right my newly filled 2kg tank only came up as 50 on the preasure gauge




Hi

If you are using a twin gauge reg a new bottle or FE will show about 50 bar on the left hand gauge (JBL Reg) and the gauge on the right will show line pressure which should be between 1 - 2 bar when switched on and 3 bar when off.






Regards
Paul


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

thats a dif jbl one than mine heres what mines saying with the soleniod on it wasa operating at 2 bar when on


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## Nelson (27 Nov 2010)

looks like the bottle is empty.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

better not b its only just been refilled


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## Nelson (27 Nov 2010)

if its a full bottle the gauge on the left should be at 50.
maybe it leaked.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

yes but the solenoid has kicked in so hopefully it will go back to normal when it kicks in tomoz


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## Nelson (27 Nov 2010)

no,the gauge on the left is the bottle pressure.if its on 0 then the bottle is empty.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Nov 2010)

looks like ill be contacting the people that filled it tomoz. They fitted a new tap thing when they filled it maybe thats leaking or something


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

Well it's working again now I think the new valve / tap the fillers fitted on the tank is abit tepremental as I gave the tap another twist (even tho it was on full yesterday) and it kicked in. Now back to my original question what bubble rate should I be at? It's about 1 a second at the mo. And how much surface agitation is to much? The spray bar is is angled down slightly so it's rippling the surface but not breaking it (because it's silent)


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (28 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> Well it's working again now I think the new valve / tap the fillers fitted on the tank is abit tepremental as I gave the tap another twist (even tho it was on full yesterday) and it kicked in. Now back to my original question what bubble rate should I be at? It's about 1 a second at the mo. And how much surface agitation is to much? The spray bar is is angled down slightly so it's rippling the surface but not breaking it (because it's silent)



Hi 

Glad you have now got it working: its hard to say what the bubble rate should be - it depends on how much gas your plants consume, do you have any drop checkers? if so you want to move them around the interior to check the residual levels within the water column, if you tank has a medium quantity of plants i would started at 2 - 3 bps, switch the gas on 1 hour prior to the lights coming on and off 1 hour prior to the lights going off, do this for a couple of days and check the colour of the dc when the lights come on and go off - you need to aim for a lightish green colour when the lights come on.

Hope this helps

Regards
Paul.


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2010)

No one can really tell you how many bps without more info like - size of tank, method of diffusion, circulation, amount of plants etc.
What about a dropchecker?


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

ok the tank specs are 48" x 16 x 22, Eheim 2076 pro 3e with a spray bar down 1 end and on full power so all the plants are swaying, Up inline atomiser, I have a drop checker but its still blue :0s.

Water params are: 

TDS: 160
PH: Low range 7.6 High range 8-8.2
Ammonia: 4ppm (because im doing a fishless cycle)
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
KH: 4
GH: 71.6
Temp: 28c

Im not sure if the atomiser is even working because i expected to see some bubbles even tho its inline Ive just put the preasure up to 2 bar as someone sudjested.


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

o and its medium planted i think check out the pics yourself on my eheim scubaline journal


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2010)

Apparently the atomiser needs 1.7 bar to operate, I would try about 3-4 bps - you should them be able to see millions of microbubbles everywhere!
I must admit that although I have been using pressurised C02 sytems for 25 years I am not an expert & have pretty much relied on visual inspection of my plants & fish to judge what is going on!
However I can sat with some confidence that I am successfully running my atomiser at 3 bps in a 300 lt tank with good results.


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

Ive got it at 2 bar at the mo but no bubbles coming out the spray bar :s


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2010)

well I think "bubbles" are a bit of a miss term - a very fine mist is better.
Anyhow i had some initial problems with mine too, this was due to leaks along the line due to the relatively high back pressure. I had to super glue various gas line joints especially on my bubble counter?
Try wetting any external joints with a bit of fairy liquid to see if they leak.


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

im wandering if its the jbl bubble counter it doesnt seem very air tight


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

tried the washing up liquid gonna try a glass bubble counter


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2010)

So did you detect any leaks? 
This might interest you viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13700&start=20


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Nov 2010)

no no leaks atall its doing my head in and i aint got a clue :0(


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## foxfish (29 Nov 2010)

If your bubble counter is showing bubbles going through & you cant find any leaks then one must assume the gas is going somewhere, what makes you think it is not working, is it because you cant see any mist or because your drop checker is blue?
Have you filled the drop checher with the correct fluid or used tank water?


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

Because I can't see any mist and the drop checker is still blue even tho I've now put it right infront of the filter outlet. No haven't used tank water it's a Colombo drop checker u just use the reagent that comes with it (ae have told me the solution isn't very accurate so I've ordered some bromo blue 4am solution)


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## Arana (29 Nov 2010)

Just a thought, are you using a check valve? and is it the right way round? if not than nothing will get through.


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

Yeah the non return valve is on befor the bubble counter and that's bubbling


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Hi RD1
Have you used this regulator on another diffuser did it work properly?
Can you adjust the bubble rate?
Have you got the atomiser installed correctly?Do you see any water in the atomiser?
Can you post a picture of the regulator gauges.
I have the same regulator.I had to adjust the working pressure manually to get it to work.
Did you do that?
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

I've personally not used it on another but the bloke I bought it off had it on one of them hideous jbl difusers. There's. Ot really a wrong way to I stall the atomiser except upside down. Yeah looks like there is water in it. Yeah u can adjust the bubble rate I even tried whacking it right up but no change. I also adjusted the pressure manually to 2 bar. I can get a pic when I'm home but they say 50 on the tank pressure and 2 bar on the other


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Hi
If there is water in the atomiser you don't have a enough pressure to force it through the membrane.
There is something not right.
hoggie


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Hi RD1
Here is a couple of photos 
This what you should see on your regulator.
This is the way to install the atomiser....I'm not sure if it makes may difference but as you can see there's no water in the chamber.







Regards
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

I was only guessing it had water in cuz when I took it apart again lastnigh there was a lil bit in there. My gauge is saying the same as urs


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> I was only guessing it had water in cuz when I took it apart again lastnigh there was a lil bit in there. My gauge is saying the same as urs


Okay
What pipe/tube have you got the atomiser on the in-pipe or the out-pipe of the filter?
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

The out pipe

Well the bloody thing is really peeing me off now just popped home and it had started syphoning my tank out so yeah I'd say it has water in!


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Hi RD1
Try attaching a check valve to the Co2 tubing just before the atomiser.
That may stop the back flow of water into the chamber.That's what Ive done.
It takes quite a bit of pressure to get this up and running.....I think i left it for about 10/15 mins 
running on a high bubble rate before I could see any bubbles/misting.
Ive not used a atomiser with a spray bar before so there maybe complete dissolvement in the bar :?: 
Someone on here may help on that front.
Have you switched on your lights fully because these bubbles are minuscules even i have to have a second look to find them  
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

I did have it round that way originally but someone told me yesterday I needs to b b4 the bubble counter so I'll swap it back gonna try without the bubble counter because I must be losing pressure because if it is t water tight it sure as he'll ain't air tight


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## Nelson (29 Nov 2010)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi RD1
> Ive not used a atomiser with a spray bar before so there maybe complete dissolvement in the bar :?:
> Someone on here may help on that front.
> hoggie


i use one with a spraybar and you still get a mist   .


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Cheers Neil  
There's the answer.
hoggie


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> I did have it round that way originally but someone told me yesterday I needs to b b4 the bubble counter so I'll swap it back gonna try without the bubble counter because I must be losing pressure because if it is t water tight it sure as he'll ain't air tight


That's not correct....I suppose the term __before__ could mean behind or in-front.
It should be on the out pipe of your external filter.... as i said attach a check valve onto the Co2 tube just before the atomiser.
Have another go at it.
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

Think I've already started getting casualties the Valis looks like it's starting to melt and another plant is to


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

I still reckon it's the jbl bubble counter that's the culprit as it don't even have any kind of rubber seal and it's not water or air tight. Gonna try it without when I get home and put the pressure up


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> RudeDogg1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> > I did have it round that way originally but someone told me yesterday I needs to b b4 the bubble counter so I'll swap it back gonna try without the bubble counter because I must be losing pressure because if it is t water tight it sure as he'll ain't air tight


If you remove the bubble counter you have to make sure the solenoid is open and there is Co2 running..... put the Co2 tubing in the aquarium to make sure have it running at slow rate or your wasting Co2.
Then attach it to the atomiser also switch your filter off the chamber should have some water in it.
Increase the Co2 flow slowly wait and see if the water is being forced through the ceramic membrane if it going down turn your filter back on and wait see what happens.
You may have to increase again...
hoggie


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> I still reckon it's the jbl bubble counter that's the culprit as it don't even have any kind of rubber seal and it's not water or air tight. Gonna try it without when I get home and put the pressure up


I think you can take them apart to clean..... JBL bubble counters.
If someone has done so and not assembled it properly that could be your problem. 
hoggie

Found this
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -3188.html
Removable lid and O ring.
I have one of these counters but i have never cleaned it.
You could be missing a O ring mate.
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

Ah coud b that then fingers crossed I've ordered an new one


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> Ah coud b that then fingers crossed I've ordered an new one


Have a look first and check.....
No point getting something you might not need.  
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

my suspisions where correct it was the bloomin bubble counter! I even found the o ring amongst some other bits the bloke sent with my co2 set but it still leaked. So what ive done at the mo is turn the needle valve up full added an inline needle valve (so i can control it better) between the soleniod and non return and set it to 2.5 bar. Even tho I ordered another bubble counter a glass one this time Im considering not bothering with it. How long will it take for the drop checker to change colour?


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

Hi
What size is your aquarium?
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

48" x 16 x 22


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> 48" x 16 x 22


Just a conservative guess 3 to 4 hours.
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

its gone green now but its not far from the filter outlet from when i was panicing about the co2 not working should it be down the oposite end? 1 last question how long does it take for the plants to start kicking in?


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> its gone green now but its not far from the filter outlet from when i was panicking about the co2 not working should it be down the opposite end? 1 last question how long does it take for the plants to start kicking in?


Leave it were it is for the moment.
Have you fish/shrimp in the tank.
It will take a few weeks to see any major changes be patient take a picture for reference.
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

no fish yet as im doing a fishless cycle only set up saturday


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> no fish yet as im doing a fishless cycle only set up saturday



You can keep the Co2 going till its limeade colour then.
Try and keep that Co2 level stable use a timer on your solenoid.
Also one on your lights.
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

already is it comes on an hour befor lights on and an hour before lights off


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> already is it comes on an hour befor lights on and an hour before lights off



Got there in the end RD1   
hoggie


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Nov 2010)

Hopefully the rest will be abit more stress free just hope the few plants that are looking poo will perk up


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## GHNelson (29 Nov 2010)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> Hopefully the rest will be abit more stress free just hope the few plants that are looking poo will perk up


Should do in a few weeks time.


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## RudeDogg1 (30 Nov 2010)

hc mostlys dying? Will they rejuvinate now the co2 is working? :0( gutted all my valis and hc are going poo










on the plus side my drop checker wich is now down the far end looks like this





my ph has dropped from around 7.6 - 8-8.2 to around 7 will it stay at 7 if i leave the co2 as it is?

Also when i yank out any deaths i want to plant a load of nice short plants and a few carpeting ones infront of the wood can you recomend any nice ones?


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