# Tropica Ferts - Help With Dosing



## Shinobi (23 Mar 2017)

Hello Ukaps

Im currently running a journal on my 60p "Reach Out". Unfortunately I just cant seem to get rid of the algae and archiving balance.

Currently im running 8-hours with Chihiros a-series Plus (9600lm - 8000klvn) and a constant of 30mg/l co2 dosed with ph-controller and 2x 30-50% WC weekly with RODI water.

Im dosing 2x "squirts" of Tropica Premium and 2x Tropica Specialized, along with some easy carbo, DAILY - and while algae has been reduced; new brown and green thread algae seems to appear.

its my first "high tech" and i would really appreciate any input I could get

Cheers.


----------



## rebel (24 Mar 2017)

I would dim the light by 1 click and reevaluate. Those lights are very powerful.


----------



## ian_m (24 Mar 2017)

1. Most people who use CO2 controllers have algae, please use a drop checker and/or pH probe.
2. Why are you using RO ?
3. What are your remineralising the RO with ?
4. Most algae is caused by CO2 issues both levels and distribution for the amount of light being supplied.

My suggestions dim those lights considerably and check that you have spot on CO2 all around the tank.


----------



## Shinobi (24 Mar 2017)

ian_m said:


> 1. Most people who use CO2 controllers have algae, please use a drop checker and/or pH probe.
> 2. Why are you using RO ?
> 3. What are your remineralising the RO with ?
> 4. Most algae is caused by CO2 issues both levels and distribution for the amount of light being supplied.
> ...



My drop checker is placed at the opposite end of the diffuser, and shows a bright green. I use Ro water because local tap has a KH of about 16 and I therefore remineralize it with JBL Aquadur in order to keep the water soft-acidic. Controller is set to 6.45 PH in order to keep the co2 high, while still compensating for ph drop caused by Amazonia soil. So you are surgesting that I drop the controller?
Light is already dimmed down 1 notch


----------



## Paulo Soares (24 Mar 2017)

Good afternoon,

As for Lights my collegues in arms allready said it all. 9600 Lumens in a 60 liter tank is a tremendous value. At list till you established your tank. If it is a recent set up don´t speed that much. Reduce velocity and in a couple of months you may be able to upgrade a bit.
Try to achieve 6000 Lumens for now.

Make a good trim to took off all plant parts that are damage. A really good one.
Clean very well the glass and hardware ( tubes etc)
Do a 40% WC.

Then considering you have all parametters in order (Co2+light+filter) and If your tank is a 60 liter than you should add at list 5 Ml /day of Tropica Specialised witch is equal to 4 Pushs.

For a start the best reccomendation is 0.08 by Liter of Tropica Specialised each day.

In case you need to add Tropica Premium, wich is mostly Micros and MG you should add 0.05 by liter day in day out.

In case you have too much NO3 or and PO4 than you reduce Tropica Specialised and compensate with the Premium in a percentage of 70/30.

But for now dose 4 Push´s a day of the Tropica Specialised.
As for the ferts by this way your problem is solved.

Now your CO2.. you don´t need 30 PPM of it. Any 20 Ppm will do the job and more easily to deal with and balance the tank.
You need to have absolute shure you have a truly reliable reagent in the Drop checker. I recommend 2 ML of JBl Co2 reagent. Achieve a green colour. Not a transparent green. Just a green. Transparent green with this reagent is equal to more than 30 PPm. 

After a couple of weeks if you´re still having issues with algae you can be certain it´s still your lights cause ferts are ok and CO2 also.

Establish CO2 and ferts and dont´touch it no more. And then you only have to regard lights.  It will be the only parameter you´ll be changing till it´s ok or you find balance.

Are you following my racionality?
Eliminate parameters till you only have to concern about one and one only: Light!

Big Hug


----------



## Paulo Soares (24 Mar 2017)

Other thing..
You use Amazonia Soil. Have you done WC as reccomeded for the initial month?
Cause if you havent´t there you go.. a big issue for your algae with that amount of light also.
If you haven´t done WC the harm is allready done.

When did you set up this ?


----------



## Shinobi (24 Mar 2017)

Paulo Soares said:


> Other thing..
> You use Amazonia Soil. Have you done WC as reccomeded for the initial month?
> Cause if you havent´t there you go.. a big issue for your algae with that amount of light also.
> If you haven´t done WC the harm is allready done.
> ...



Thanks for the input - tank is 6 weeks old and WC was done: week1=7 week2=4 week3=3 week4=2 week5=2 week6=2.

I do use JBL co2 reagent and achieve the following color :




so I guess i should start with dosing only Specialized and dim the light even further?


----------



## Paulo Soares (24 Mar 2017)

Shinobi said:


> so I guess i should start with dosing only Specialized and dim the light even further?



Yes do that for fert and ligths down as reccomended.

But please put your drop checker down below. Below is where you need to measure. Not upwards.
You´ll need to measure the presence of CO2 down below near to plants ok?

Still looking at that reagent colour almost outside of the water i may reccomend to upgrade a bit as soon you put it down below cause concentration in there will be less.
Upwards at the bottom of the water you´ll always get more concentration values as gaz do go up.

Down there try to achieve a bit more clear green than that in the photo. Again.. not transparent!

Best regards.


----------



## Paulo Soares (24 Mar 2017)

According to Those bubbles near to the drop checker i assume your difuser must be very near to it.

Put the drop checker in the opositte side of the difuser. Once there is marking a good value than you´ll have enough Co2 in the tank. 

Regards


----------



## Shinobi (24 Mar 2017)

Paulo Soares said:


> According to Those bubbles near to the drop checker i assume your difuser must be very near to it.
> 
> Put the drop checker in the opositte side of the difuser. Once there is marking a good value than you´ll have enough Co2 in the tank.
> 
> Regards



drop checker is between inlet - outlet on the left side and diffuser is on the right side. I will change my indicator solution and put the checker closer to the bottom. the bubbles is because the co2bubbles sometimes stays at the surface if the outlet is not creating a swirl for some reason


----------



## Paulo Soares (24 Mar 2017)

Put it here.


----------



## three-fingers (24 Mar 2017)

I agree a pH controller is not a good way to maintain constant CO2 level, and the drop checker should ideally be placed where Paulo says (also try moving it around to different areas to check CO2 distribution). Remember drop checkers do not react instantly, and pH will change in a tank throughout the day (and night) for many reasons unrelated to CO2 levels, especially because you are using soft RO water for an unspecified reason, which is far more subject to pH swings.  Your pH controller will be reacting to this and adjusting CO2 injection throughout the day, but the changes may be too small or fast for the drop checker to pick up on, or maybe your simply not around at the right time of the day to see them.

As Ian has recommended too, dimming the lights would undoubtedly help as well. This will reduce CO2 uptake by plants, therefor CO2 is less likely to ever be limiting, healthier plants that will combat algae growth in many direct and indirect ways, and less algae growth in the first place due to less light.


----------



## jesperl.dk (25 Mar 2017)

I have seen good pearling in several of your pictures. In my (limited) experience, when you get to know your setup a bit, you can judge your CO2 level on the amount of pearling and of the extent of the period where they are pearling. Do you have a lot of pearling in all areas of the tank for several hours each day? Or do some areas have less pearling? Is you growth as good as when it was at its best?
Contrary to Paulo (the friendliest guy in ukaps , I subscribe to the classic Barr EI approach - you have to have enough of everything, but most of CO2 and least of light  The trick is to find a balance, and after that you can lower your dosing (at least that is my plan) to limit the speed of your growth a bit. When you have a lot of growth I think it is easier to find a balance - I would suggest you consider temporarily adding some more fast-growing stems in the back.

I don't know about the Tropica ferts, but I am sure the mix is pretty much perfect, the question is how much to dose. I would suggest you look at the concentration in the bootle of a couple of the macros and then use one of the calculators to calculate how much to dose - aim for upper end of the EI range.
But most of all: patience and don't change to many thing at the same time 

About using a CO2 controller (I use one as well). There can be two problems with using it: 

1) using it to get the right level of CO2. 
    Use your drop checker and the amount of pearling to decide the level, but use the controller to make sure you don't accidentally go above that. Use your pH pen to make your own observations of what level of pH gives you the right level of CO2. Be aware that your pH may change when your substrate matures. And very important, I would think, be very sure your mix of tap and RO always is the same - if it is not you can not at all use your pH to judge the level of CO2. (I wouldn't use RO if I was you, but that is a different topic)

2) using it to have a steady level of CO2
    Make sure it does not go on and off in a pattern that causes your level of CO2 to significantly swing up and down several times during the day. Adjust your regulator so it gives you the amount of CO2 you want and only let the controller protect you from drifting above that.

So mostly the controller protects you from to high levels (yes, I killed a number of my fish the last time I had an aquarium  ). And then of cause it gives you an easy way to see the current pH, and that is very nice when trying to understand just a bit of what is going on


----------



## Paulo Soares (25 Mar 2017)

Here you have. In my tank. 









Enviado do meu SM-A510F através de Tapatalk


----------



## Paulo Soares (25 Mar 2017)

The difuser in the other side.





Enviado do meu SM-A510F através de Tapatalk


----------



## Shinobi (26 Mar 2017)

Hello guys - thank you so much for your time and the great advices, seeing what you guys have accomplished makes you input mean a lot to me.
I have dimmed the light down further and i'm dosing 4x Tropica Specialized and 2xcarbo atm. I think im already seeing an decrease of algae and its certainly not appearing at the same rate as before - ive also added some more fissidens and pinatifida in the mix.



drop checker has been moved to below the outlet and while i havent touched the co2 it shows a dark -non transparent green 10cm from the bottom:





jesperl.dk said:


> I have seen good pearling in several of your pictures. In my (limited) experience, when you get to know your setup a bit, you can judge your CO2 level on the amount of pearling and of the extent of the period where they are pearling. Do you have a lot of pearling in all areas of the tank for several hours each day? Or do some areas have less pearling? Is you growth as good as when it was at its best?
> Contrary to Paulo (the friendliest guy in ukaps , I subscribe to the classic Barr EI approach - you have to have enough of everything, but most of CO2 and least of light  The trick is to find a balance, and after that you can lower your dosing (at least that is my plan) to limit the speed of your growth a bit. When you have a lot of growth I think it is easier to find a balance - I would suggest you consider temporarily adding some more fast-growing stems in the back.
> 
> I don't know about the Tropica ferts, but I am sure the mix is pretty much perfect, the question is how much to dose. I would suggest you look at the concentration in the bootle of a couple of the macros and then use one of the calculators to calculate how much to dose - aim for upper end of the EI range.
> ...



Hey Jesper  I'm still getting an decent amount of pearling during the day even with the reduced light. As for the RO i dont mix with tap water, but a mineral-mix from JBL called Aquadur, I found that getting 250tds with Aquadur in RO equals pretty much on point with a KH of 4 and the Fishes really seems to like it this way, showing amazing coloration and behavior.



Paulo Soares said:


> The difuser in the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes ive seen your journal Paulo, absolutely stunning work and plant health  I've also bought my diffuser based on your review


----------

