# Ray's 90cm - Growing Pains Over?



## Ray (5 Aug 2008)

Well, this has been the longest time in the planning and procurement stages - I've been thinking about this since last November and started buying stuff in January.  Anyway, I now have everything except the plants so time to start the journal.  Regulars may have seen I am thinking of aqauscapes on another thread here: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2344

Here is the tank and stand:





I built my own ADA style stand after quotes from AE seemed a tad expensive.  We wanted a gloss black finish and that adds almost 300 quid to the normal price of a 90cm stand.  Given the time again I'd have ordered it - you pay extra for good reason due to the extra work involved.  This stand took me a weekend to assemble and 4 months spraying and sanding ad infinitum to finish.

Tank is 90L, 45D and 50H = 200L and was made to order by LFS, I paid about 30 quid extra for "extra clear" glass but I am not sure that it is opti white.  The bottom right corner is drilled so filter in and out can be plumbed in.  Lighting is an Arcadia overtank luminaire which thanks to the weak pound was a steal shipped from the UK by Fish Fur Feathers.  Its has 4*39w but I only plan on using half that.  Here is the tank being test filled:




Here is a shot of the underneath plumbing for the filter:




Tetratec EX1200 filter, Hydror 300W in line filter, Aquamas in line CO2 reactor.  I am sure I need to improve on this, but not sure how yet.  I think that I need some quick release fittings (Eheim double taps on entry and exit from tank, do they restrict flow?  Advice welcome!).  I made a mistake only putting 50cm clearance through the doors and the filter only just fits.  If I could find a squatter, quieter one with the same output I'd change.  
Finally CO2 ready to go:




I'm about to order my plants from http://www.aquaspotworld.com for delivery to myself here on vacation in Malaysia - then the plants will come home in my luggage - save on shipping costs


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## tanker (5 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

I'm from Malaysia~ Where's this Aquaspot anyway, i dont see its address. Probably doesnt have an operating shop and trade exclusively through the Web. Seems to have a very wide variety of plants. how much does it take to deliver to Malaysia? i might get some from it in the future


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## LondonDragon (5 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Looking great so far, look foward to seeing this setup and planted  keep us posted


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## tanker (5 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Btw, comparing the size of the filter with your aquarium, its massive. I'm sure it'll do a good job. great stand you've got there


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## ceg4048 (5 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*



			
				tanker said:
			
		

> I'm from Malaysia~ Where's this Aquaspot anyway, i dont see its address. Probably doesnt have an operating shop and trade exclusively through the Web. Seems to have a very wide variety of plants. how much does it take to deliver to Malaysia? i might get some from it in the future



Hey tanker, Aquaspot World is a member of this forum. Why not send a PM?

Ray, while you are there why not order some Ludwigia pantanal? http://www.aquaspotworld.com/index.php? ... il&pid=538
This is the only place I've ever seen it for sale. This is a difficult one and is a CO2 junkie but a beautiful little plant well worth the effort since you are down there. :idea: 

Blyxa aubertii is another nice one that you don't find readily around here as is Bacopa myriophylloides. There are so many nice plants there that are not available around here it's a great opportunity. Even if you don't want some of these I'm sure there are plenty of folk who would love to try some. Shipping charges from Switzerland to UK is nothing in comparison. :idea: 

Cheers,


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## Ray (16 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Well, I am back.  Plants are with me and so I have to set it up this weekend.  I also got some very nice driftwood for next to nothing.  

Only plant not to survive is the Blyxia Japonica - it had turned to a stinking green mush.  I've salvaged 3 or 4 1cm sections of stalk - can it grow back from that?  Also, what looks like some seeds - is that possible!?  If so how to grow them - dry them out for a few days then add to damp compost?  To be fair, Aquaspot do warn Blyxia is not covered by thier live shipping guarantee so I guess this is not uncommon.



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Ray, while you are there why not order some Ludwigia pantanal? http://www.aquaspotworld.com/index.php? ... il&pid=538
> This is the only place I've ever seen it for sale. This is a difficult one and is a CO2 junkie but a beautiful little plant well worth the effort since you are down there. :idea:


Not in my plan for this scape and a little late in the day, but maybe another time...


			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Blyxa aubertii is another nice one that you don't find readily around here as is Bacopa myriophylloides.


I was very tempted by the B. Aubertii but in the end maybe all for the best since I don't want 2 bags of mush!


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## Ray (19 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Photo Update 19.08.08*

So last weekend I returned from Malaysia with a bag full of plants and driftwood.  Sunday I found time to set things up.  I was so pleased with my new driftwood that the old piece was abandoned.  Unfortunately I was pressed for time and forgot to take many photo's after the first stages.  Here we are first a layer of peat on the bottom:





Then some JBL Aquabasis Plus I originally bought to make the sand go further, The separation is L shaped pieces of clear plastic fruit punnet cut into an X to make 4 wall pieces per punnet:





Then in goes the Aqua Soil and the sand.  





Finally plant up and fill, this is about 1am right after filling.  Mostly crypts, I've a large number of different types.  Backdrop is Cyperus Helfrei, C. Balansea and C. Retrospiralis.  I still have some fissidens and some flame moss plus a couple of portions of narrow leaf fern.  I'm not sure what to do with them exactly, some on the wood (almost seems a shame to cover it) and some on moss stones along the sand frontier I think.





But now I am in a mess.  My Tetratec EX1200 has leaked after a few hours of operation both Sunday and Monday night.  The Swiss distributor has referred me to the shop but the shop is a web shop and I have to wait patiently for them to respond to my email.  Meantime no circulation and no CO2 so no lights.  The water is going slightly milky - bacterial bloom from the ammonia leaching aquasoil I presume.  If my filter were running the zeolite and purigen would clean that out...   

I'm tempted to order something else for a filter and when the 1200 gets repaired/replaced I will just sell it on ebay - I've lost faith and if it leaks all over the living room while I am at work again my wife will be less than understanding....  

The JBL e1500 sounds interesting, but I'm a little worried about noise and build quality, otherwise an Eheim 3e 2076 fits nicely into my cabinet.  Its a little lacking in filter media compared to the Tetratec but gives more flow (up to 1650Lph).  I think loaded with Effisubstrat Pro it should compensate for the limited media?  I really want something utterly reliable and quiet.  Another possibility is the Eheim Classic 2150 which offers 12L of media and 1200/Lph.   What is the real difference between the Classic and Pro range?


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## Steve Smith (19 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Photo Update 19.08.08*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> What is the real difference between the Classic and Pro range?



Shame about the EX1200.  I've just set one up last week and had no problems...  Hope I'm not in for a suprise one evening soon 

The classic range are a bit more basic looking, being a round cylinder with a motor head on top.  Water is drawn in from the bottom and up through the media.  The pro range are more like the EX1200, having a square footprint.  They also have better media baskets compared to the classic which tends to be a large media basket with circular plastic mesh which you put in to seperate sponges/ceramic media.

I find my 2213 is a bit basic, but it does the job.  There is certainly a knack to getting them primed and running, which might be why I'm avoiding switching it off at the moment 

I recently set up a Pro 2222.  It was pretty painless, but I still had problems getting it primed.  Not as many as the classic but I think I didn't have the technique 

Lovely wood by the way!  Did you have any problems with HM Customs and the plants?


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## LondonDragon (19 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Looking good  tres bon, j'adore
Going to look great when the plants fill in, that piece of wood is just amazing


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## Garuf (19 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

I love my 2224 even if it is disgustingly far of the mark when it says its 700lph. The trick with priming is to make sure you use the tube taps to keep water in the tubes then allow the inside to drain to the top of the filter into the filter before hitting the power switch.


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## Ray (20 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Filter Decision Time*

Thanks for the answer Steve, and comments guys.  Do you find your Eheim's quieter than the EX1200?

Decision time.  I'm limited by the 500mm height of my DIY stand doors, I want to be able to slide the filter in and out.


```
Filter  	     	      Cost  Pump		Watts	Media	Dimensions
			                (Euro) Output     			   (HxL)

EX1200	                109	1200		20	   12L	500x260
2250 Classic             156	1200		28	   12L	415x315
2028 Pro II	           148	1050		20	   7.3L	455x210
2076 Pro 3e              198	1650		10-35	6.6L	474x264
```

Problem with the 2250 is the input hose is 25/34mm which is bigger than my bulkead, so I need a reducer.  Also is it a bit primative?
Problem with 2028 is slightly reduced flow - is 1050Lph enough on a 200L tank?
Problem with the 2076 is the tiny media volume - would 2 trays of Effisubstrat be as good as 4 trays of Bio Balls and ceramic noodles in the EX1200?

Does anyone know the margin LFS has on filters?  Can I haggle them down towards the internet price?



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Lovely wood by the way!  Did you have any problems with HM Customs and the plants?


To get the plants by post from outside Eurpe would have been troublesome.  My first order of Aqua Soil from Germany was rejected by Swiss customs - "soil" is a bad word in customs offices.  In the end I had to hand carry 18L back from a trip to the UK.  The wood is 4 pieces lashed together with cable ties, but even in the shop I could see what it was possible to do.  The final result exceeds my wildest dreams.


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## Steve Smith (20 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Didn't realise you were in Switzerland 

Not sure if it's worth mentioning but the classic has the lower intake jutting out from the bottom of the canister which adds to the dimensions and potential awkwardness of your restricted space.  Worth checking on this 

I'd still prefer the EX1200, but then I've not had a problem with mine (yet!  :? )  I've been running an EX700 with no issues for over a year so I'm confident.  I'm finding my EX1200 has a slight buzz to it, but I think that's a gas pocket as I have been injecting CO2 with the diffuser under/near the filter inlet.  I've now moved it.

I also find my 2213 classic gets air building up inside over a few weeks and starts to hum/buzz too.  I tend to give it a rock every few weeks/once a month) and it burps out bubbles and carries on.  Sometimes it takes a few attempts over the period of a day though.  This could be down to age, as this was bought second hand about 6 months ago, but it could be down to design too I guess.

Either way, neither are loud enough to be anoying.  Both are in my bedroom (EX1200 in a cabinet, 2213 sitting on a sideboard).  I have no problems sleeping


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## jay (20 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

That Aquaspotworld has Old Black Wood! So they ship to UK?

I'd love to get my hands on some of the wood you've got Ray, thats awesome. Going to make quite an impact on the look of the tank... even with heavy planting. Nice one!


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## Ray (20 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> That Aquaspotworld has Old Black Wood! So they ship to UK?


Actually I got the wood from PetsWonderland in Mid Valley Shopping Mall, Kuala Lumpur - its a pet supermarket but being in Asia it has a large display planted tank with CO2 in the green, a huge assortment of lights and they carried ADA substrates and toolsets (the latter locked in a glass cabinet).  These 4 pieces cost me RM 90 - that's about 15 pounds!

Aquaspot do deliver to the UK.  Eds has used them if you search this forum for his experience.  They have a lot of choice for plants and prices are reasonable.  I'd say the quantities are on average slightly less than you get in Tropica pots but I had some nice surprises like 10 or 12 pieces of C. Balansea and C. Helfrei in one portion to offset some of the more stingy portions.  Anyway, I spent $132 and I have plenty of plants for this tank (about 200).  Not sure if they do wood, you'd have to check.


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## jay (20 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

They have some good rare plants. Love the other species of Balansae, retrospiralis etc..
We get nailed for prices in our hobby over here  

Guess you forget it when you look at your very own well done tank


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## pompeyfan (21 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Problem with the 2250 is the input hose is 25/34mm which is bigger than my bulkead, so I need a reducer. Also is it a bit primative?
Problem with 2028 is slightly reduced flow - is 1050Lph enough on a 200L tank?
Problem with the 2076 is the tiny media volume - would 2 trays of Effisubstrat be as good as 4 trays of Bio Balls and ceramic noodles in the EX1200?

Does anyone know the margin LFS has on filters? Can I haggle them down towards the internet price?

Ray,

 I have been running a 2076 for just over a year now, a good filter, except for the 'safety adaptor' (the bit the hoses connect to)    The lever that closes the ball valves, also 'throws' two levers that lock this connector to the head unit. I've snapped THREE of these levers on differnt units due to jamming of the lever and/or red release button, which should eject the hose connector, once the in/outflow lever is isolated. This is a design flaw IMHO, since other cannisters like the 2028 or Fluval have separate levers for isolate and release. I think Eheim have over complicated the 3e connector as my first replacement one fitted worse than the original. After much disscusion with my LFS  , i have a second replacement head unit now from the bigger 2078 model. This is small consilation though, as i have now bought two Eheim 16mm double taps (@Â£38) to ensure i never have to use the ....ing 3e lever!  

 If i had the money again, i was going to suggest a Tetratec but as your using a lot of towels....  

 For my next 230 Litre project though, i'm going to use the 2250 from my turtle tank. This has been uprated with a 1260 pump unit which maintains an excellent long term rate of flow through split 16mm outlets, with full media. A 'basic' 2x grid divider is inside the 'bucket', but if you can find a large media bag, you can manage a shed-load of rings, balls or whatever, easily. I use 1" bactoballs, GRID, 1" ceramics (poured in), 4" Effisubstat (bagged), 1" medium foam, GRID then 1" while poly pad (both cut from pond filter sheets). Draining then moving the cannister can be a performance, compared to a newer (Fluval FX5) design with a 'drain cock', but long maintenance intervals make up for that IMO. The original 1250 pump unit boxed with the 2250 is a good pump, i just needed more flow to deal with bigger 'loads'   from a 5ft turtle tank.

 My LFS manager looks like this bloke>    when i SHOW him internet prices.  

 Cheers, pete.


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

i run a 2028 ray. faultless bit of kit.

tanks looking great. will you be getting some mosses on that wood? keep an eye on those c helferi runners.

mark


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## Ray (22 Aug 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Thank you Pete and Mark and Steve, between you you've answered my question.  I went to the LFS and got a 2028.  It cost me twice the price of the Tetratec but I don't care because:

a)  They had one running in the shop and unlike the Tetratec it makes _noise at all_.
b)  They are there, they sell lots and if there is a problem they will fix it on the spot or give you a loaner while it goes back to Eheim.
c)  Its an Eheim and everyone who has a 2028 swears by it rather than at it.

I told my sob story to the boss and negotiated 20% off on the filter and 50% on the media, not quite internet price but good enough and with the extra service I'm well chuffed - the assistant unboxed it with me, added the media and gave me a 20 minute walk through on the whole unit.  Actually she advised me to get the 2028 over the 2076, and if I need more flow a tiny powerhead will suffice.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> will you be getting some mosses on that wood?


Absolutely, I have a bag of flame moss, a bag of _fissidens fontanus_, a bag of narrow leaf java fern and a portion of _eleocharis parvula_.  Some of the mosses and all the ferns will go on the wood.  The rest of the moss will go on moss stones around my "coastline".  I want moss stones on some of the coast, and in front of the wood I plan a grassy area with P.Helfrei highlights, then the crypts will line the "path" going back...

I'm stuck with the moss - which one should go on the moss stones and which one on the wood?  Dan and Eds, I think you know how they grow?


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## Ray (1 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Update 01-09-2008*

Time for an update, some quick blurry photo's - apologies in advance.  Its running nicely now with the Eheim 2028 and the Aquamas drop CO2 reactor.

Last week was no fun - massive crypt melt left a sort of WWI devestation!  Less expected, the ammonia from that and the Aquasoil caused disgusting brown surface scum:



The only good thing about surface scum like that is it stops gass exchange - my CO2 was in the yellow 24 hours/day!

Two 90% water changes later and we seem to be coming out of the woods.  Also crypts that completely vanished are resurfacing from the Aqausoil with new leaves.  I've added to the wood some flame moss and fissidens plus Java Fern 'Narrow' stripped of leaves as the the CAU guys reccomend - it certainly makes it easier to tie it.








Also a shoreline in front of the wood with dwarf hairgrass and P. Helfri highlights.  When I have time I will add some moss stones further along and see which effect I like better.




There is a lot of growing in to do and I am nowhere near finished positioning everything, but you get the idea how its gonna be...


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## ceg4048 (1 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Looking good Ray! Glad your filter troubles are behind you.  

Cheers,


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## TDI-line (2 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Looks lovely Ray.


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## Thomas McMillan (2 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

This scape is gonna be awesome! Keep us posted.


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## Mark Evans (2 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

lovely ray.

do you think the path could "sweep "more. looks a tad clinical?


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## Ray (2 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

 Thank you everyone for the kind comments.

Today I've gone to 6 hours light and now, after 5 hours, I've got pearling from some of the crypts and mosses and lots of micro bubbles all over the tank - grow guys grow!  Drop checker is heading into the yellow.  This is hard to get right, I think some of my guppies are going to have to visit before I put something valuable in  :? 

Also the first snail arrived   - where the blazes did he come from?!  I was so careful!



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> lovely ray.
> do you think the path could "sweep "more. looks a tad clinical?


Thank you Mark - I knew I could rely on you for some constructive criticism   
Originally I wanted the path to perform a switchback and vanish back behind its own screen so that you could never see down  the whole thing and got an infinite feeling.  In all the excitement that didn't happen.  Also I just blew sand everywhere at the last water change.  However, anything is possible - if I could figure out what I want so I can make it happen...  Maybe do some sketches when I have time.

Also I think the back left hand half needs more backdrop.  Not sure what - hard to say - the plants are going to bulk up so much.  I am going to move some more P.Helfrei, Java fern and a couple more crypts from the 25L guppy tank + moss stones of course.


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## Mark Evans (3 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Also the first snail arrived  - where the blazes did he come from?! I was so careful!



i was the same with the henge. i was sure i eradicated them from my setup but no. anyway they do seem to help cleaning up algae and stuff.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Thank you Mark - I knew I could rely on you for some constructive criticism



 no probs ray.
what amano apears to do sometimes is to use riccia stones on the borders. i think because its easy to control. i think in all honesty once everything has grown in ray the rigid t junction effect wont be so noticeable



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Originally I wanted the path to perform a switchback and vanish back behind its own screen so that you could never see down the whole thing and got an infinite feeling


.

what i plan on doing im my big tank. but going behind a hill! i have 70cm to fill in height and im going to use all of it (well thats the plan)



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Also I think the back left hand half needs more backdrop. Not sure what



well the c heferi or is it nana>? will cover the right hand side but IMO you dont want to all of a sudden start with another plant on the left. tricky one.(for me anyway) personally i can see small leaved stems in this set up. tight and bushy! well pruned stems   

all in all though ray it looks a cracking start and the wood positioning is spot on which is 90% of the scape. 

keep it up mate.


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## jay (3 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*

Glad to see an update on this Ray, really liking the start of what looks to be a good one.

I understand wht Mark is saying about the path but I reckon that should look fine once some of the plants have softened the edges of it.

Still loving that wood, although I did start to think it might be a bit... aggressive looking. Almost mean hehe.
But I think the plant choice is going to go well with it. The word 'prehistoric' is in my head  

Think the flame moss is going to look great on it on it once its spread.

Can't wait to see this grow.


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## Ray (10 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Still loving that wood, although I did start to think it might be a bit... aggressive looking. Almost mean hehe.
> But I think the plant choice is going to go well with it. The word 'prehistoric' is in my head


Thanks Jay.  Perhaps I should call this scape *Primevil!* or *Primevil Forest*  Not sure I'll win any competitions with a title like that mind!



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From back right to left we have: _Cyperus Helfrei, Cryptocoryne Balansae, Crypotocoryne Retrospiralis_.  Actually back left was pegged for Blyxia, but as you know that melted in the post.  I do have about 100 Blyxa seeds dried on a sheet of kitchen paper that I could try to grow, or maybe something else.  Possibilities:

- Blyxia (from seed?!)
- A nice asian stem - _Limnophilia aromatica_?  
- A nice hygrophilia with leaves that look similar to the crypt leaves to continue the left hand bank upwards.
- Add more _C. Helfrei_ and balansae over to the LHS for a symetrical look.
- Or, my current favorite, a stand of a longer _Elocharis_ at the back plus a lawn of _Eleocharis parvula_  along the front shore creating a sort of grassy contrast either side of the crypts.

No photo's because nothing is happening.  Well, anyone who knows crypts knows they transition slowly from emersed growth - even if you cut off all the leaves on planting the next couple of new ones will be emersed leaves that soon melt.  So I'm cutting off leaves as soon as they look like they are about to melt.  Leaves that grew in the last 3 weeks....  Frustrating given the numbers of crypts I have.  The true immersed leaves are just coming now so hopefully things will start to move.


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## Mark Evans (10 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> A nice asian stem - Limnophilia aromatica?



would be nice, and some p stellata? like whats in my big tank. similar i guess.i wish i could give more input ray, but im pretty green myself (fears getting laughed at)   so my input is by what i think looks good together not necessarily what plants SHOULD go together.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> a stand of a longer Elocharis


also would be nice especially when starts to spread. i personally dont like grass foregrounds.


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## Ray (16 Sep 2008)

*Re: Algae!  Photo Update*

Here is a timeline so far:

On *day -7* I set up the tank.
On *day -6* my filter leaked and I ran on a mature 400lph sponge filter until...

...the Eheim 2028 went in on *day 0*.
- In the bottom tray of the filter I placed 1.5l of ceramic noodles including a handful from my mature HOB filter and on top of that the blue Eheim bio sponge.
- In the middle tray 2l of Eheim Effisubstrat Pro.
- In the top tray 500g of Zeolite and 100g of Purigen.  
- On top of that the white Eheim water polishing filter.

I then started following this regime:
- 90% water change twice per week.
- 5ml of Easy Carbo (standard dose)/day
- 8ml of TPN+/day
- CO2 on and off 1 hour before 7 hours of light, 2*T5 VHO 39w = 78w

On day 14 just before a water change ammonia was 1.5mg/l, Nitrites 20+mg/l
On day 17 just before a water change ammonia was 0.25mg/l, Nitrites 0.5mg/l
On day 20 just before a water change ammonia was >0 and <0.25mg/l, Nitrites 0.
Today, on day 23, ammonia and nitrites are 0 so my filter is cycled and Zeolite was no visible help.

4 or 5 hours into the light cycle my drop checker looks like this:




My flow is good - 2l jug filled from filter output in 9 seconds = 800l/hour.  It blasts across the surface from back RH corner to mid LHS, tumbles down the side wall and rolls back down the tank along the substrate causing leaves to sway gently.

Crypt Balansae pearling and reaching for the surface:



Algae on my wood and fissidens - pearling, would you believe!   






Algae on my crypts:



Algae on my eleocharis:



Worst of all, on the crypt parvula:



And that bothersome surface scum just won't go:



Here is my plan for tomorrow evening:

Crack open the filter, clean media and replace Purigen, Zeolite and polishing pad with fresh.
90% water change.  Drop to 6 hours light, with CO2 on 2 hours before.  Start double dosing EasyCarbo and risk the Fissidens.  Start EI as soon as my dry salts arrive in the post from the UK.

Is there something wrong with my programme or is this ADA Aquasoil teething trouble?  Do I need to blackout?  Should I add algae eaters to clean up the mess or keep them out so I can take more drastic measures if required?  Or should I just take a sledgehammer to the whole thing?

Yours, in despair,


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## jay (16 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Photo Update Algae Horror!*

Sledgehammer and record it  
Don't do it!!! hehe

Don't quite understand where the algae is coming from mate. You've got no ammonia leeching now and it seems like you've got a good amount of nutrients.

Just thinking maybe get rid of all the mechanical media from your filter now, perhaps its stripping the water of the ferts??

Weird really, you got no ammonia and algae, I got 4mg/L and a tiny bit of hair on the bolbitis... strange hobby we have eh :? 

Just persevere mate. The water will balance its self out in time.


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## Ray (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout*

*Day 24*
After I switched the purigen over and added the second 500g of Zeolite to my filter the slightly cloudy water got much much worse.  I was 4x dosing Easycarbo and the water would clear during lights on then get much much worse when I dosed TPN+ the following morning.  With lights on it looked like milky bacterial bloom.  With them off it looked distinctly green.

*Day 27 *
I snipped every algae covered leaf off the crypts and cleaned the algae infested sand with the gravel vac.  Tank looked pristine but underlying cause was still there so 2 days later, it was like this:




*Day 29 *
I added some Hornwort, Elodea and another stem to try to get more biomass.  Tank looks like this, you may notice I've adjusted the wood to a better angle   




In hindsight I realize I've done a lot of things wrong this first month leading to ammonia, low flow, low biomass, low macros dosing.  Then I ignored all the signs blaming it mindlessly on the Aquasoil Ammonia leaching and crypt melt when really it was my own silly fault.

*Catalogue of errors:*
- First filter was faulty so I went a week without a filter.
- Got a couple of kinks in my filter tubing and didn't realise right away meaning the tank had a few "low flow days".
- I was doing 90% water changes but only dosing 20ml of TPN+ after.  In my tank that puts NO3 at 6ppm, way short of the 20ppm target.  I should have been adding 70ml.  Moral - use dry salts.
- So many crypts and so little other stuff meant a lower biomass and lead to a massive crypt melt that just made everything harder.

To be honest, if I could do this again, from scratch, I would do nothing the same way again.  Its hard to think of anything I actually did right!

*Day 31*
After some useful advice from ceg4048 on I performed a 100% water change:



...dosed 70ml TPN, get out the bin bag liners (top quality ones, not cheapo translucent ones), added a 400lph mature internal filter for extra flow and now the tank looks like this:



I dosed another 20ml TPN+ in darkness 2 days later.  Plan is to perform another 100% water change, dose and crank CO2 up like crazy.  I might also and cover one of the two tubes and we shall see how we go with just 39w.  Covers come off tomorrow, if I don't report back, that would probably be indicative of bad news


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*

ray, thats a bumer my friend   . sorry to hear it. at least after the blackout you can get back on track. fingers crossed for you mate.


----------



## Fred Dulley (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*

Good luck, Ray.
What is the clip that is holding the hose in place? I could do with one of those... thanks


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*

didnt think you were supposed to dose when doing a blackout, as the plats wont use them as there is no light?

also with the TPN+ dosing, you are adding enough, 70ml is way to much   

5ml per 50l adds 6ppm of NO3 so 20ml would of been fine.


----------



## Ray (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> didnt think you were supposed to dose when doing a blackout, as the plats wont use them as there is no light?
> 
> also with the TPN+ dosing, you are adding enough, 70ml is way to much
> 
> 5ml per 50l adds 6ppm of NO3 so 20ml would of been fine.


Hi Aaron.  For the TPN, I have a 200L tank and I am targeting 20ppm NO3 as per EI standards.  If I do a 90% water change I am at 0ppm give or take.  So I need 70ml to hit the target.  20ml is how much I've been adding daily all these weeks and doing 2x 90% water changes a week.  The algae is testament to the fact it is not enough.  As for the blackout, I will quote what ceg4048 told me in a PM (trust this is OK to share your wisdom Clive   )



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Anyway, forget about cloudy water. When you have fixed you problems the milkiness will go away. Believe me that is the least of your worries. CO2 plus nutrients will feed the plants and generate oxygen stabilizing the bacterial populations. The milkiness occurs in part because of the bacterial population crash. The bodies die and contribute to the cloudiness as well as to NH4. This is another thing people go crazy over and I can't figure out why. The cloudiness is just a visual indicator of why the tank has problems. Fix your plants and you'll fix your cloudiness.
> 
> Oedogonium and Rhizoclonium are easy to fix. Just dose like crazy and they will never come back. You're lucky it's not BBA because that is really tough to get rid of.
> 
> Do a 100% WC to begin with then refill, dose and cover the tank. Do a 3 or even a 4 day blackout but dose at night in pitch black at 2 day intervals. At the end, 100% water change 1/2 lights if possible and continue dosing and make sure CO2 is good. You should notice a difference.


I have BGA in the sand and that is indicative of low nitrates.  I can't say I fully understand the science but I trust Clive  and I know I need strong plants when the lights come back on and I think dosing in the dark should help.  No light and high nitrates should sort the BGA out at least.


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*

oh right, i thought you meant you were dosing 70ml daily


----------



## joyous214 (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*

Oh no shame about the tank, some useful information there though.


----------



## Ray (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Blackout Time!*



			
				Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> What is the clip that is holding the hose in place? I could do with one of those... thanks


I actually picked it up for about 50 pence in a Malaysian hardware store - when I saw it I thought exactly what you did.  Sorry I can't help more than that...


----------



## Ray (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

*Day 36*
Covers came off after 5 days, not 4.  I do not recommend this, 3 days would be better.  However I was out of TPN+ and my dry salts were still in the post (a long story, you are so lucky in the UK where AE can next day everything to you).  After the blackout I planned to do a 100% water change and wanted to dose heavily after that w/c. 

There was no algae anywhere, not a trace.  However the water was brown and musty smelling with dead algae.  A lot of crypts had melted away but others had tried to keep growing(!).  Other plants were either dead or looking very sad.  I had to do the 100% water change and trim all the dead stuff out.

*Day 41*
Look, 4 days after the blackout and not a speck of algae anywhere in the whole tank.  You may notice, not so many plants either...  the melted crypts are putting up new shoots, thank goodness , I hope I've not lost too many:





I am now being very cautious with my settings:

- 50% more flow (400lph mature internal added)
- 100% more CO2 @4bps, starting 3 hours before lights (drop checker
muddy brown at lights on, yellow on lights out)
- Proper full EI dosing using dry salts
- As always 78w (only 2 tubes), just 5 hours for now

To all intents and purposes this is starting from scratch, should I run like this for a fortnight so that the plants can recover?  If so, how do I bring levels down later - I don't want my crypts to adjust to high CO2 and then melt all over again when I drop the levels to actually add some shrimp and fish.


----------



## aaronnorth (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Glad to see things are going well, the new plans sound good  when you are lowering the CO2, do it very slowly over a few days, i would just run it about 35ppm, then there is no big problem about lowering it.


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

glad your algae probs sorted ray.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> To all intents and purposes this is starting from scratch



i guess it is, are you going to be buying some more plants?  couldnt you buy from AE? plants do well in transit apparently. 
have you considered 24/7 co2? its taken the hard work out of it for me   and a 2kg FE lasts an eternity.


----------



## Ray (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> i guess it is, are you going to be buying some more plants?  couldnt you buy from AE? plants do well in transit apparently.


I can get Dennerle, Aqaufleur or Tropica plants within a 45 minute drive.  In hindsight I should have just brought the "rare" crypts back from asia and kept them immersed while I fishless cycled and placed a order with the LFS for everything else I needed.


			
				saintly said:
			
		

> have you considered 24/7 co2? its taken the hard work out of it for me   and a 2kg FE lasts an eternity.


Funny you should say that because my CO2 just ran out and no chance of a refill until the LFS opens on monday  .  Is that normal, 6 weeks for 2kg?  Well, its still going but the regulator says empty in the bottle but still pressure on the regulator side, so I stopped so I stopped it and the lights, was that the right thing to do?  

So tell me about 24hr CO2.  I'm so confused - do I want a bottle green drop checker or murky brown?  How can 24 hour CO2 use less than the other method?


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> So tell me about 24hr CO2. I'm so confused - do I want a bottle green drop checker or murky brown? How can 24 hour CO2 use less than the other method?



i dont think it uses less. i guess its all down to your water paramaters. i cant answer that one. i run with the drop checker a real light green colour. i upped the rate ages ago on ceg's advice, and it worked a treat. 

i get more than 6 weeks on my 300L running 24/7. dont know why. about 5bubbles  p/s. i run this rate through the night to. fish dont mind at all.

the science baffles me, as long as my plants look good, i dont care for the in depth science. i just know the basics really.


----------



## aaronnorth (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

on Paulo's tank, his 2kg lasted 4months on a 125l, so yours should last about 2 month at least, did you check for leaks?


> i dont think it uses less. i guess its all down to your water paramaters. i cant answer that one. i run with the drop checker a real light green colour. i upped the rate ages ago on ceg's advice, and it worked a treat.



water parameters wont affect it, (only tiny amounts) it is mainly Kh which unless is extremely high (like 30d) then you should be needing more CO2. You still want to be running a green DC, not yellow if you are going 24/7, also make sure you have enough surface agitation for the night, rippling the surface of your water (like the hairdryer trick) is enough.



> the science baffles me, as long as my plants look good, i dont care for the in depth science. i just know the basics really.



i love the science behind it all


----------



## keymaker (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

I like your tank a lot, Ray, I am currently setting up a 240l with two 2028 filters and two Aquamas reactors - the same like yours. It would be really useful to know how your reactor works with the 2028 so far. Does it dissolve all the gas? Is it noisy? Do you count the bubbles inside the reactor or do you use a separate counter?



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> on Paulo's tank, his 2kg lasted 4months on a 125l, so yours should last about 2 month at least, did you check for leaks?


I have a 2kg too... Guess I will have to upgrade to a 5 kg, refilling every second month is a pain.


----------



## Superman (4 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Keep going Ray, I think there's a few of us struggling with algae issues and are going through them now and coming on the good side.
I seem to battle against GSA all the time even when my plants are pearling like mad!


----------



## aaronnorth (5 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				keymaker said:
			
		

> I like your tank a lot, Ray, I am currently setting up a 240l with two 2028 filters and two Aquamas reactors - the same like yours. It would be really useful to know how your reactor works with the 2028 so far. Does it dissolve all the gas? Is it noisy? Do you count the bubbles inside the reactor or do you use a separate counter?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i wasnt saying that it will last 2months, i just meant that that will be the least amount of time, it dpends on lighting, plant biomasss etc.


----------



## Ray (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				keymaker said:
			
		

> I like your tank a lot, Ray, I am currently setting up a 240l with two 2028 filters and two Aquamas reactors - the same like yours. It would be really useful to know how your reactor works with the 2028 so far. Does it dissolve all the gas? Is it noisy? Do you count the bubbles inside the reactor or do you use a separate counter?


Thank you keymaker, the Aquamas reactor is very efficient - 100% of CO2 is dissolved, no gas build up, no bubbles in the filter output.  I keep a torch in the cabinet so I can count bubbles in the reactor bubble counter, but actually you can hear them.  Mine makes a "blop" "blop" "blop" noise as each bubble enters the reactor.  Other people say theirs is silent, but this one is not.  To be honest its driving me nuts.  The input would take an air stone, which should shut it up, but access is difficult - I can't see how to get it in place (if anyone knows, beer vouchers up for grabs   )


----------



## Ray (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - What to stock?*

*Day 55*
When I eventually got CO2 (my LFS swaps your empty bottle for a full one for equivalent about 15 quid, but first one would not turn on) I dropped CO2 to 3bps, still yellow brown drop checker.  I've increased to 6 hours light, and get good pearling during the last hour.  A small amount of GSA in the sand so I've doubled NO3 dosing to 1tsp 3x week to hopefully get rid.  A little normal algae on the wood.  No algae on any plant leaves anywhere.  The crypts are growing in their normal stealthy way but not enough change to be worth a photo.

I think its time to get some animal life into this tank.  I will throttle back the CO2 slightly and add a couple of juvenile guppies, if they can last a few days and still no algae from drpping the CO2 then I'll get some Ottos and some Amano shrimp.

I'm tempted to order Dennerle _Eleocharis Viviparia_ for back left.

I know I always said Asian theme but I'm now less decided:

*Asian Theme Stocking:*
2 or 3 Pearl Gourami as centrepiece fish.
20 or so Rasbora Hengli
10 or so 5 band barbs, or, if I can get them, a more obscure rasbora (so many to choose from, if you can get them)
6 or so sparkling or chocolate gourami

*South American Theme Stocking*
1 or 2 pairs of Rams or Apistos as centrepiece fish.
20 or so Rummy Nose Tetras
10 or so Lemon tetras or some other tetra
6 or so cory cats

What do people think?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Asian, definately. I think you should definately get three Pearl Gouramis instead of two (one male, two females). I think the two shoals will look great, I just got some Hengli Rasboras and they are awesome fish. I think the Five Banded Barbs would be better than another shoal of Rasboras too. The only thing I don't like about your Asian stocking list is the Sparkling/Chocolate Gouramis. I would definately scrap them and either leave the stocking how it is and maybe increase the existing shoals a little or get something else, like a small shoal of Cherry Barbs or maybe something from Asia to occupy the bottom strata more, although I'm not sure what there is.

I do like the American list though come to think of it. If you do go for that idea I would either get a couple of pairs of Rams or one male Apistos and three females. I'm not sure on the Lemon Tetras to be honest, maybe Cardinals instead? I know it's a bit mainstream but I think Rummies and Cardinals go great together, the way Rummies shoal so tight and the Cardinals spread out a lot looks awesome. The Cories are cool too.


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> I'm tempted to order Dennerle Eleocharis Viviparia for back left.



apparently it's really high maintenance due to the fact it gets in tangled messes.

as for the theme, i wouldnt know an asian theme from a african theme so i cant help you on that. :? 

pm me if you still want some moss.


----------



## jay (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Acicularis can tend to look much better. Viviparia  grows mad with grass strands growing from little nodes along the existing strands. Can end up looking like mad hair.
As for fish stock, go with what you like mate.


----------



## Ray (1 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> The only thing I don't like about your Asian stocking list is the Sparkling/Chocolate Gouramis.


Why don't you like Chocolate Gourami's Thomas?  For me they are one of the main reasons to go Asian.  Although I must say, with the current limited plant mass there is a lot of flow in this tank and no deadspots, I don't think Gouramis would like it.

Last weekend I added 6 Ottos and 6 Amono Shrimp.  They've really cleaned things up nicely, my wood is spotless (the shrimp, I think) and some of the pre-apocalyptic crypt leaves were getting algae again, which is all gone (Ottos).

So seems to be going quite well.  Just increased lighting to 7 hours.  I plan to add a few more fish next weekend hopefully, but still no idea what!  Will update more when I have time.


----------



## jay (2 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Think it can be quite difficult to keep chocolate gourami's in a planted set up as they love very soft, acidic water, low flow and dim lighting.
I know the Co2 we pump in the tanks lower pH but if your source water for WC isn't very soft to begin with, then the stress of hard water being pumped in every week could lead to some stress.

I have seen chocolate gourami's in a planted tank (Greenmachine??) but there are some real precautions in doing so.


----------



## Ray (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

*Day 82*




I lost one Otto to an accident, I had an Aquamedic filter strainer which was basically a pipe with slits in it and he was found dead, tail in, head stuck.  I think he just got caught, I've replaced the strainer with the one off my Eheim which has finer mesh, the old one was too wide bore - I also found two medium sized Amano shrimp living in my filter thanks to that!  I feel bad about the Otto though, they are so cute and playful...






Everything else is going quite well.  No algae, except on my sand.  Latest annoyance was when I changed my CO2 over again and during the gap all my hornwort melted and filled my water with minuscule particles.  The white pad in the Eheim couldn't get them - I had to replace half my Zeolite with filter floss then it cleared overnight.  Flow is good with 1050lph from the filter which jets down the whole tank 3" below the surface and 400lph from the internal filter which also goes down the whole tank from a spraybar just below the surface.  I get good flow through the whole tank and only at 7.25 times volume as the circular motion builds up its own momentum moving more water than I pump, if that makes sense.

Here is a teaser shot, excuse the poor quality, I need to figure out the settings on a D40 to tweak aperture so the whole tank is in focus and compensate exposure for sand and lights.  There is a lot of growing in still needed from the crypts, mosses and ferns, 3 months before its looking really good I think.  Also ignore the internal filter, its at the front because I'm trying different positions for optimum flow.  



Its crying out for some fish.  I think I might start with some rummy nose tetras and false neon tetras (the ones without any red, just the blue stripe).  Once things are more mature then I'm tempted to try 2 pairs of German Blue Rams - even in the shop you can see they are great characters.  Or maybe some apistos but the ones in the shop always look miserable.  My wife would like a pair of altums which would look stunning in the tank but I'm worried they'll just bug everything and then grow too big.


----------



## Themuleous (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Looking good Ray, that fissends looks very nice.  Must try some of that at some stage.

Sam


----------



## keymaker (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Ray, what do you feed to the Otos? They look really nice and fat. Did you consider getting some SAEs? (My SAE is always chasing away the little Otos from the spirulina mix, thus starving them lately.)


----------



## Mark Evans (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

wow, loving it ray. balansae coming on too. its good to see you've over come your algae problems its good all the way in now    just keep an eye on your sand maintenance. i fell prey to this one.

any chance of a full frontal? 

BTW, i have your parcel ready too


----------



## Garuf (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

I'm with Mister Saintly, sand maintenance is key. I love it Ray, I'm glad you've got over your algae problems, it fills me with hope.
Really love the scape and can't wait to see if fully matured.


----------



## Steve Smith (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Looks great Ray   Loving the ottos too!  Cute little blighters!


----------



## jay (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Lots of obvious potential here. Like you said, just need the crypts to grow out.
Good choice with rummynose, and false neons (green neon tetra). if you go for green neons, then I think you might be out of luck with the altums. The neons will end up as expensive treats


----------



## Thomas McMillan (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Looking good, got a full frontal? 

I think Rummynoses are a good choice, nice fish. Like jay said, Altums would be out of the question with Neons because they are quite small fish (altough I have heard that they grow slightly bigger than common Neons, so if they grow to 5cm then they'll be fine). Personally, I would go for Cardinals or common Neons because I've heard that they live together with Rummies in the wild, and I prefer them anyway. 

Rams are great fish too! Nice one.


----------



## Calum (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

your tank looks really good ray and the plants are looking awesome!


----------



## Ray (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				keymaker said:
			
		

> Ray, what do you feed to the Otos? They look really nice and fat. Did you consider getting some SAEs? (My SAE is always chasing away the little Otos from the spirulina mix, thus starving them lately.)


Once a week I drop in a couple of JBL algae pellets, in case they are missing some vitamin or something, but they are quite fat enough without.  I still get surface film without agitation so I figure there must also be plenty of leaf and glass film to eat   


			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I'm with Mister Saintly, sand maintenance is key. I love it Ray, I'm glad you've got over your algae problems, it fills me with hope.
> Really love the scape and can't wait to see if fully matured.


Garuf, I'm touched - you are one of the most honest critics on UKAPS, so if I'm winning you over, I must be doing something right   


			
				saintly said:
			
		

> wow, loving it ray. balansae coming on too. its good to see you've over come your algae problems its good all the way in now    just keep an eye on your sand maintenance. i fell prey to this one.
> 
> any chance of a full frontal?


OK, ok, coming up...  Everyone else, thanks for your kind words


----------



## Ray (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Journal - Photo's 6-12-08*

*Day 108*







So I finally added 12 Rummy Nose Tetra's a week ago now.  I really like these guys - they school nice and tight up and down the tank.  It was mayhem for the first 2 days because the Ottos have similar striped tail markings to the rummies so we had rummies acting like Ottos and vice versa in one seething mass of fish.  Anyway, everyone has figured out who is who and normal behaviour has resumed.
You can see on top left rummie a white spot on his adipose fin, a few of them have a spot somewhere.  Not sure if this is ich or not, but the temp is now 28 degrees and I'll push it up to 30 tomorrow and add some aquarium salt.  My post on ich: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3835

The plants are growing well and I am starting to be quite pleased as the crypts continue to fill out the the background cover slowly pushes upwards.  I also added a stem, just for fun.  I think its _Pogostemon Stellata_, really beautiful, trimmed it after this photo, so I can have half a dozen entwined in the wood.



VFirst view I see as I enter the room is down the tank.  If I get back from work too early, the view is hazy, it only clears halfway through the light cycle.  By lights off the water is as you see it now.  My post on cloudy water: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3755



Saintly was good enough to send me some moss, which I used to make moss stones, you can see it here in the full frontal view along the edge of the sand.  I need to do something about having fissidens and flame moss on the same branch, its not right.  Also I'm tempted to get some anubias to grow up out of the water from the emergent wood.  Not too sure about LHS either, but I'm giving it some more time.


----------



## Superman (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

This looks beautiful Ray, I like the arrangement between the sand at the front and then the areas of plants.
Keep up the good work.


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

ray, you got it going on there my friend! looks quality. nice images too. rich deep colours the crypys are looking the biz along with everything else for that matter.

i'm with you on the left hand side...it does need something, but what? it appears to me the no. of plant varieties on the right far out way the drawing the eye directly to the right. im sure you'll think of something to combat it ray.

from my experience with anubias near the light, it worked fine. it encouraged ridiculous growth. 1 plant had 3 flowers on it within 3 weeks it was there.but they can be prone to algae on the leaves apparently.it may throw the look of the tank also   

hope i dont sound negative ray, cus it looks sweet!


----------



## Nick16 (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

i really really like this tank, the layout is superb. i can never find any decent bits of wood


----------



## ceg4048 (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Looking good Ray. 8) Definitely worth the effort. Happy that you persevered.  

Cheers,


----------



## LondonDragon (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Looking great Ray  glad you recovered well from all the algae issues 
How about moving the Pogostemon Stellata to the left hand side? a bunch of it there would complete that side of the tank and might look cool, just an idea.
Keep us posted


----------



## Thomas McMillan (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Nice!

There definately isn't someting right though... I think it's because the left hand side is too low? Maybe add some taller plants there and it'll look better.


----------



## Themuleous (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Lovely scape, coming along really well, keep it up 

Sam


----------



## Ray (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

For those of you wondering how rummies school (video link):



10 days at 30 degrees, plus 1 tsp salt/40 litres killed off the whitespot but the reduced oxygen dissolution plus no water changes has made my cloudy water worse.  Doesn't even clear at the end of the light cycle.  I've added an extra litre of EffiSubstrat Pro to the filter, but I've had enough.  I'm ordering a UV unit off ebay.

Thanks those of you who commented on the LHS, I'll let it grow a while longer before I do something.  Also, had a request for a plant list, let me see what I can do after Xmas.  Meantime, happy holidays and thanks for looking.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

happy christmas ray,

great little vid.i was tempted to get some rummy nose tetras, but im still unsure. 

 those crypts look great. the only thing i would say?....hose the sand! 

happy new year

mark


----------



## Thomas McMillan (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

They suit this scape so well, brilliant fish choice. The tank is looking great! Your tank is crying out for some Cories, though.


----------



## scottturnbull (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

Nice video. The Pogostemon Helferi looks really vibrant. And the fish look healthy. You've been through quite a lot. I'll bet you're looking forward to putting your feet up.


----------



## aaronnorth (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

those red crypts are so lush and beautiful, what specie are they?


----------



## Themuleous (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

They look like Cryptocoryne wendtii, probably 'brown' type.

Sam


----------



## Ray (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> those red crypts are so lush and beautiful, what species are they?





			
				Themoleus said:
			
		

> They look like Cryptocoryne wendtii, probably 'brown' type.



Close - Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya' apparently.  The "fun" of crypts is depending on conditions in your tank you can never tell how they will turn out.  When I put everything in I had no clue, I was pretty dismayed when these ones came out bright red, but actually, I really like them now.

Today I was very briefly at the Green Machine on the way to Chester.  Lovely people, lovely place - I could have stayed all day chatting to Jim and Graham but unfortunately had a car full of impatient kids/wives/mothers and we were just passing...  Managed not to spend much this time, just got some frogbit to try, maybe I'll drop the CO2 and go floating plant low tech like Dusko    I forgot to ask for a new check valve for my recactor to see if it stops the "pop pop" noise too, bother...  My wife rather liked the altums over the rams so possible U turn on fish choice there...

The jungle tank is looking fabulous, Graham has done a great job, school of SAEs circling the whole tank was really impressive.  Also was suprised to see hatchet fish in an open tank, apparently they don't jump out, which suprised me - I'd love some in mine but I'm fairly sure I'd see them take flight accross the living room!  Jim's lean dosing in the Iwagumi would have Clive horrified.



			
				scottturnbull said:
			
		

> You've been through quite a lot. I'll bet you're looking forward to putting your feet up.



Yup   



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Your tank is crying out for some Cories, though.


Will they mess up my sand and stir everything up?  Must say I do like them.


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## GreenNeedle (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Will they mess up my sand and stir everything up?  Must say I do like them.



Yep 





AC


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## aaronnorth (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

That is surely not miOya? I thought it was wendtti but i have never seen the brown version before.
miOya:


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## beeky (13 Jan 2009)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

I agree Aaron, I think it's wendtii "brown".


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## Ray (18 Jan 2009)

*Re: Ray's 90cm - Green Water Homecoming!*



			
				beeky said:
			
		

> I agree Aaron, I think it's wendtii "brown".


I also have Wendtli Brown in there, although you can't see it, and its not the same.  Of course, I'm just going by the Aquaspot World bag labels and my planting plan, so I could be wrong.  I'll try to take some photo's to show you and I'll produce a planting plan too...

When I got back from Christmas vacation (2 weeks away), things were not so good.  Here is the tank after a 70% water change, so you can imagine it before!  The black thing on the right is my new UV unit - 9w light, 800lph, off ebay. 




It took some time to clear the pea soup - here is 2 days later:




And 3 days later...  After that I did another 70% water change and 24 hours later I had crystal clear water and removed the UV.




Here are some up to the minute shots I took just now.  Full tank, the rummies are busy in the undergrowth so you can't see them:




Left had side, you can see the cryptocoryne retrospiralis is coming up slowly.  I am probably going to give it some more time, until it is up to the surface I don't have the effect I was hoping for...  If I get impatient I will put in a thicket of my central stem plant.




New additions.  My wife really wanted these, and my 11 year old daughter picked these two out of a mixed selection of Gold, Koi, Black, White, etc.  I think she choose well.  They are much more beautiful and interesting than I expected, although I guess they scotch my plan to breed cherry shrimp!  The good news is that they have actually won the other half over to this tank - she sat and watched them this evening which is a first.  To complete the stocking I plan to add 12 false neons as soon as I can find some (better grow faster than the angels guys!) and probably a trio of _apistogramma cacuoides_ red, if I can get them.


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## Mark Evans (18 Jan 2009)

*Re: Ray's 90cm Asian Theme Journal - Look - No Aglae!*

crypt heaven ray, crypt heaven   

hows the balansae spreading? such a nice plant IMO


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## TDI-line (18 Jan 2009)

Lovely tank Ray.


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## JamesM (18 Jan 2009)

Beautiful mate


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## JohnC (18 Jan 2009)

hi,

i really like the elegance of the wood you got there. it is an excellent bit, totally makes the scape.

Best Regards,

John


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## Thomas McMillan (18 Jan 2009)

Nice! You certainly know how to please me with your fish choice    amazing fish choice


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## jay (18 Jan 2009)

This tank has turned into a beauty. That ticket of brown crypts looks great Ray, just wondering about the sand though.... are you going to sort out more of a barrier to keep the substrate from messing the sand up? Or is it not too bad?
Just wondering, because I've got a fair amount of barrier to mine and the sand is still a complete mess.


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## Graeme Edwards (18 Jan 2009)

The tank looks very nice Ray.

Some critique if I may?

Have you thought about adding some nice rounded pebbles and stones around the line of plants you have. it will help to blend the bright fresh gravel into the plant thickets. As it is, it looks quite clinical, but some clever use of various sized pebbles and stones will give it a very natural look, which from what I see, is what your aiming for?

Good work on clearing the water. Filter wool is great in such situations.

Cheers.


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## GreenNeedle (19 Jan 2009)

The dominant Crypt in the 'midground' is definately Wendtii 'brown'.

However I think I can see a 'Mi Oya' shaped plant in the front centre (the hammered leaves rather than just ruffled at the edges.)  My problem is that with the dark colouration I would've said it was Wendtii Tropica rather than Mi Oya which is lighter!!!

Looks good though.  Great comeback from the problems you had.

Not an aquascaper myself but the problem I see with the left/right is that it is almost like 2 seperate tank as the 'path' seems to head straight backward.  Maybe if it was angled it would be less of a difference. That path grabs my attention immediately.  However the more the plants grow the less it is becoming a distraction 

AC


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## aaronnorth (19 Jan 2009)

Tanks looking great Ray


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## samc (19 Jan 2009)

i really like your tank it looks great i havent seem anything like this befor im starting to like crypts more and more


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## Ray (4 Mar 2009)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> The tank looks very nice Ray.
> 
> Some critique if I may?
> 
> Have you thought about adding some nice rounded pebbles and stones around the line of plants you have. it will help to blend the bright fresh gravel into the plant thickets. As it is, it looks quite clinical, but some clever use of various sized pebbles and stones will give it a very natural look, which from what I see, is what your aiming for?


To get critique from Mr. Edwards is a pleasure and an honour.  Thank you Graeme and I agree completely about the stones and the sand.  Saintly has even kindly told me the correct ratios of different sized pebbles, so I will have to get down to the LFS and see what I can scrounge.  I'm a little slow to do this, because this is supposed to be a low maintenance scape - 1 hour a week for w/c and basic maintenance.  2 hours once a month if I also do filter maintenance, clean pipework and do a major prune.   

The rest of you, thank you for the kind words.  As for the Mi Oya/Wendtli brown, I am quite sure the original label was correct and it is Mi Oya - I refer you to George Farmer post: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4717&start=22





Since then things have gone bonkers - it really needs a major prune so be gentle with the critique.  I had to thin out the _C. Helfrei_ a lot - it was so rampant it choked itself and got some nasty black algae.  1 Rummy nose lost to jumping - quite suprised by this since normally they never go near the surface, but it happened somehow.  When I have time I will post a plant list and a planting plan as I know some people are asking for that.

Next I might do some kind of rescape, maybe on the LHS or maybe replace the C. Helfrei with something else.  I'm still mulling this over - its a slow motion low maintenance kind of scape...


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## Mark Evans (4 Mar 2009)

oh ray, that's wonderful. i'm loving the c helferi...gives depth.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> To get critique from Mr. Edwards is a pleasure and an honour.



certainly is! we never see him post   

thats a big hitting image ray, makes me feel i post too much!


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## George Farmer (4 Mar 2009)

Superb, Ray.  I really like it, a lot.  

Great selection of textures and colours, with an interesting mix of positive and negative space.

The style is refreshing.

Well done!


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## aaronnorth (5 Mar 2009)

superb plant health


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## Ray (7 Mar 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Superb, Ray.  I really like it, a lot.
> 
> Great selection of textures and colours, with an interesting mix of positive and negative space.
> 
> ...


  Thank you George for the extremely kind words - very much appreciated.  Its pure serendipity really - I have stuck to my original planting plan but how the crypts have turned out is more luck than judgement.  In fact how most things have grown has surpassed my expectations.


			
				saintly said:
			
		

> oh ray, that's wonderful. i'm loving the c helferi...gives depth.


Glad you say that - when it got too thick and the black algae/mould/fungus stuff grew on it I had to follow all the affected leaves back to the base and break them off (about 100 leaves) I was close to insanity, it was even worse than tying moss to wood in situ!  Since then I've been planning to rip it out, but perhaps I will reconsider....


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## Tony Swinney (7 Mar 2009)

Stunning Ray - the Mi Oya/Wendtli brown colouration is superb.  Love it


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## George Farmer (7 Mar 2009)

Ray said:
			
		

> .... but how the crypts have turned out is more luck than judgement.  In fact how most things have grown has surpassed my expectations.


You'll find that with crypts and most plants in general.  Given enough time to mature, in a well-maintained tank, aquascapes generally look better the older they are, as the plants blend into one another etc.


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## John Starkey (7 Mar 2009)

Hi Ray,i think your layout is very very nice,its easy on the eye and the path on the left draws you through the scape nicely,i do agree with the pebbles thing Graham pointed out,i think they would finish it off nicely,well done,regards john.


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## Nick16 (15 Apr 2009)

any update on this ray, would love to see some pictures....


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## Ray (3 Jun 2009)

3 months gone by already?  Been kinda busy with work, family and a professional exam I'm planning to take...

So, its a whole new scape.  The ferns have gone beserk, my nice moss stones are dying in the shade, I've still not got around to sorting out the stones on the sand, maintenance is every 2 weeks now but things are so mature that it doesn't seem to be a problem - a mature tank is much more forgiving.  I have had the odd isolated patch of thread algae but that's most likely flow - the Koralia Nano is now too small.  For months it sat in a drawer because it was too much and now its not up to the job...  Or perhaps it is because I eased the CO2 back slightly so I'm now getting 2 months from 2kg.  I'm only using Easycarbo after water changes also.  

Anyway, its different, growing like crazy, crypts popping up everywhere (see the balansee sprouting in the front).  Huge amounts of green need tearing out regularly to stop it looking overgrown and past its prime + to let some light down to the lower layers-  I just this weekend pulled out all the bottom RHS hair grass as it was choked with moss, that's re-planted now.

I am not sure where to go with it next?  Time permitting I'd like to get it really shipshape and enter it into AGA then rescape into an Iwagumi but we shall see...  I had a lot of problems earlier on so for those of you who are starting out, persist - once you get there the pain is a distant memory.  So, without further ado, a few rough and ready photos - the contrast between surface and depth is now huge so its hard to photograph.






The guppies are refugees from my 25l, not part of the plan but actually they work OK - they are very active in a very different way to the tetras and the angels.


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## Mark Evans (3 Jun 2009)

those crypts are crazy! i've just had to go back to see it in its first few days to compare.

looking absolutely  brilliant ray. excuse my ignorance, but when did the microsorum enter the scape? it's a beauty


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## ceg4048 (3 Jun 2009)

Nice going Ray. Does need a trim though...

Cheers,


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## George Farmer (3 Jun 2009)

Madness in a tank!  I love it!!


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## Ray (3 Jun 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> those crypts are crazy! i've just had to go back to see it in its first few days to compare.
> 
> looking absolutely  brilliant ray. excuse my ignorance, but when did the microsorum enter the scape? it's a beauty


  It was always there, for 10 months now - here is March 4th:





You can see in 3 months it suddenly went "womph" and took over the whole scape.  Before the photos in my last post I tore out about 1/3 of the ferns, would you believe.  The crypts are even worse - how can I tame them?  Should I just cut them back to zero and force them to start afresh, prune the biggest leaves, the oldest?  I've no experience of this kind of monster growth.  The Helfrei I had to remove it all - 10 stems had grown into over 50 crowns so I put just 10 back.  Once things are established growth is exponential and you can't stop it...

Clive, George, good to see you still around  

Looking at this old picture I'm not sure if I prefered it in March or June...


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## Nick16 (3 Jun 2009)

can i just ask, whats the difference between M.pteropus and M.pteropus phillipine?


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## Mark Evans (3 Jun 2009)

sorry


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## samc (3 Jun 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> excuse my ignorance, but when did the microsorum enter the scape?



i was just thinking the same   looking great though


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## Tony Swinney (3 Jun 2009)

Excellent stuff Ray !  Thats some amazing growth youve got going on, especially the crypts  

Its great to see, especially having read through the issues you've had with it along the way.

Cheers

Tony


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## ceg4048 (3 Jun 2009)

Ray said:
			
		

> The crypts are even worse - how can I tame them?  Should I just cut them back to zero and force them to start afresh, prune the biggest leaves, the oldest?  I've no experience of this kind of monster growth.


Ray the problem is not with the leaves, it's with the roots. Uproot them and trim, then replant. You're likely to see massive root balls when you pull them up. This is the only way to tame high tech crypts...

Cheers,


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## Ray (3 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, thank you Clive, I didn't think of that.  You are right - the crypts often have roots stretching 12 or 18 inches.  Of course if I uproot and trim over 100 crypts plus all their babies, that wouldn't really be low maintenance anymore - it would be a rescape.   :?  Hmmm, I'll give this some thought...


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## ceg4048 (3 Jun 2009)

Mate, I never promised you a rose garden...  

Cheers,


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## George Farmer (3 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Mate, I never promised you a rose garden...
> 
> Cheers,


"I beg your pardon!" 

Another option is to brutally cut all the leaves right back and wait for re-growth.  I've done this a couple of times, but of course, it doesn't reduce the "root cause" (pun intended!)


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## rawr (3 Jun 2009)

Ray, this is looking great! There's so many old scapes that are turning into mature beasts at the moment and it's fascinating to see. I love the jungle feel to it.


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## TDI-line (6 Jun 2009)

Great journal Ray, very impressive.


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## Ray (16 Jul 2010)

So its two years next month:





Looking back its definitely not what it was.  I had absolutely no time for it at all first few months of this year - through negligent dosing, CO2 running out, no water changes for weeks - all my moss died and there was a huge BGA outbreak, it covered everything.  I cleared as much mulm as I could but only a blackout could get rid of it completely.  I've got it back under control now but I lost the mosses, the grasses, the stems and the_ cyperus helfrei_.  Also I never ever got around to doing grading on the edges...

So, now its got to change, I fancy an Iwagumi and its got to happen in the next 3 weeks while I've got the house to myself.


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## Mark Evans (16 Jul 2010)

well blow me! look who it is. I've often wondered where you've been   

nice to see you back


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## arty (17 Jul 2010)

Yours Tank is Beutifull and post is great 
Sorry 2 years later i read this post  

Best Regards,


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## Ray (18 Jul 2010)

Thank you Saintly, Thank you Arty.

I've switched to another thread to discuss the Iwagumi rescape possibilties here.


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