# Plants not growing / stunted growth



## tony_a (15 Aug 2015)

Hello, apologies if I've posted in the wrong area.

Hopefully someone can help me with a problem I have, my plants don't grow (but they don't die either).

Last year I set up a 200l aquarium for fish and low light tolerant plants such as Anubis, Java fern, cryptocoryne becketti and Amazon swords. The lighting was 1 x 30W T8 Power-Glo and 1 x 30W T8 Aqua-Glo with reflectors, filtration is 1 x Fluval 304 and 1 x Aqua-one 1250 canister filters. The substrate is fine gravel, I can't be more specific as it's what came with the tank. I was not dosing any ferts.

With this system I successfully grew a tankful of BBA.... after finding this website and discovering that liquid carbon kills BBA, I started dosing 4ml of Easycarbo per day and after 2 weeks all the BBA was gone and I was so happy.

Encouraged by my success with the liquid carbon I started dosing with Profito put in some root tabs and decided to try a few more plants from my LFS, these did okay'ish before eventually dying.

After another look through this forum I came to the conclusion that I needed more light and fitted 2 x 39W T5HO tubes in addition to the original tubes, lights are on for 6 hours a day. After a few weeks with this setup I noticed the leaves that were growing on the Amazon swords and the Java fern were stunted, the plants themselves look healthy just smaller, kind of like bonsai trees.

I added some Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan', Hottonia inflata, Limnophila sessiliflora & Alternanthera reineckii "mini" and everything was good, plants were growing fast (except mini swords and fern) and no algae...... for about a week. then everything stopped growing.

After about 2-3 weeks with no discernible growth I noticed small amounts of BBA coming back, I have kept this under control by adding the easycarbo directly on to it but I'm worried that another BBA explosion is just around the corner.

Yet another read though the posts on this forum has now lead me to believe the initial good growth was down to the plants using their reserves of energy and are now lacking in something again.

I've read a lot of posts about EI dosing but am unsure if it would be appropriate or necessary in my setup. As you can see from my post I'm very inexperienced with planted aquaria.

I don't want to grow difficult and delicate plants but just to have a nice planted tank with no BBA. Hopefully someone suggest my next move, the only limitation I have is that I don't want to start using pressurised CO2.


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## foxfish (16 Aug 2015)

Plants  most defenitily grow better with added Co2, if you don't want to use pressurised then you could use liquid carbon every day.


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## EnderUK (16 Aug 2015)

tony_a said:


> The lighting was 1 x 30W T8 Power-Glo and 1 x 30W T8 Aqua-Glo with reflectors,





tony_a said:


> *After another look through this forum *I came to the conclusion that I needed more light and fitted 2 x 39W T5HO tubes in addition to the original tubes, lights are on for 6 hours a day.


I'm sorry are you sure it was this forum? Most on this forum are quite against photon bombardments of very high lighting. With 2xT5HO you're in the high lighting so you'll need to get your CO2 and flow and ferts exactly right or you'll just melt your plants. You can grow pretty much anything with T8 bulbs.

I would recommend you have a look at the tutorial section or have a read of a few journals. Maybe try having the goal of health growth rather than fast growth. Start with "Easy" plants, the T8s along with some EI dosage, maybe around 2/3 strength to start off with for liquid carbon. You can buy a starter kit from our sponsors pretty cheap. Look for the 10% discount as a member of the forums.


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## tony_a (23 Sep 2015)

Thanks for the replies.

I have followed Enders advice and reverted to the 2 x T8 lights with a 6 hr photoperiod, I continued dosing 7ml of easycarbo daily and ordered some EI salts and started dosing 2/3 strength.

Since starting dosing some of my plants now appear to be suffering phosphate deficiency (holes in leaves), from some of ceg's posts I think, I understand if I satisfy one deficiency that I will then see the next deficiency. 

However, when I am searching this fourm I always confuse myself as topics tend to drift quite a bit and I find myself following other links which also drift and I usually forget what I was searching for in the first place. Anyhow while reading a "phospate deficiency" thread I'm sure I read a post by ceg saying increasing nutrient availability may/can or will drive a demand for inreased co2. After hours of searching I can't find that post again so my overloaded brain may have invented that fact.

So, to get to the point, do I increase fert dosing to satisfiy whatever deficiency is causing the holes.

Or, assuming I haven't imagined the incresed fert requires increase co2 thread, do I reduce the fert dosing to reduce demand for co2.


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## ian_m (23 Sep 2015)

tony_a said:


> suffering phosphate deficiency (holes in leaves),


Not phosphate. Mechanical issues/damage to plants is always lack of carbon or sometime over excited fish, loaches etc.


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## tony_a (23 Sep 2015)

If not a deficiency then I think lack of carbon is the most likely.

I'll try incresing the easycarbo a bit, is having good water flow as important with liquid carbon as it is with co2. I do have quite a high turnover but it's possible that the plants that have grown have reduced the flow (only some plants have holes).

Thanks


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## sciencefiction (26 Sep 2015)

You've been dosing profito, which is just micronutrients. I don't know what's in you EI dose but hopefully you are dosing macronutrients as well, such as nitrate, potassium and phosphate..... But phosphate is normally always available in a low tech tank without CO2 supplement. There isn't much need to dose phosphate in such tanks and a deficiency is unlikely, rare(CO2 drives the demand up for any nutrient and high phosphates tend to drive the demand for other nutrients as well as CO2) because phosphate is in the fish food you add daily(vital for fish, in tap water, etc..)So the holes you are seeing are more than likely not phosphate related.
Anyhow, you mentioned holes in the leaves. Any pictures? Are the holes in older leaves or new leaves? Or all over the plant?
Potassium deficiency shows up as holes in older leaves. The plant leaves may melt too a lot, along with yellowing/browning.
Also fish like plecos love "making holes" in the leaves. My ancistrus is a genius in the plant hole universe, specifically echinodorus.

EI dosing is just a method of dosing that bit extra nutrients in a tank so plants never get deficient of nutrients(the other factors are co2, light and flow) Play with your light amount and nutrient doses. But not at the same time. Leave 1-2 weeks between each change to see how one move has affected the tank(i.e plants). Start with dosing enough of micro and macro nutrients(which EI is about but in a low tech you need less than the EI recommendation normally)


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## tony_a (26 Sep 2015)

I mixed the EI salts as per directions fro APF, I dose 2/3rds. 

Unfortunatley I don't have any pics because since my first post the tank delevoped a leak, so I've set up again in another tank and removed the worst leaves, with a full length spraybar from back to front I think I'll get better flow. I do have a bristlenose in the tank  (I found the ancistrus thread yesterday) my Amazon swords show the same damage. The holes in the other leaves didn't look like fish damage, very small with a yellow ring around the hole.


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## sciencefiction (26 Sep 2015)

tony_a said:


> very small with a yellow ring around the hole.



Potassium deficiency looks like that normally. See how it goes with the EI salts. There's potassium in them. It may take a week or so in a low tech to see improvements.


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