# Amazon and plastic packaging



## jameson_uk (19 Aug 2019)

Seems Amazon are moving from cardboard boxes to plastic lined envelopes like this





I see there are some arguments that they are better for the environment in some ways as they are lighter and smaller which means less transport but I suspect the is almost entirely a financial move.   This is all well and good for Amazon but I am being left with a load of envelopes I feel reluctant to bin.

Amazon says (https://www.amazon.co.uk/amsc) that they aren't widely recycled (which I guess in practice means that aren't at all)  but just wondering what to do with them.


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## GHNelson (19 Aug 2019)

I'm sure you could Re - Use them
Sell your excess plants...and re-cycle the Amazon large envelope!
At least its used twice.
hoggie


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (19 Aug 2019)

Last ditch hope... are they made from recycled plastic?


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## jameson_uk (19 Aug 2019)

hogan53 said:


> I'm sure you could Re - Use them
> Sell your excess plants...and re-cycle the Amazon large envelope!
> At least its used twice.
> hoggie


I will re-use where I can but it seems to be a one item, one envelope thing so I already building up quite a pile .   I got a CD inside one of these big (probably bigger than A4) envelopes which I cannot see how it uses less space than the DVD sized card boxes they used to use....

Must admit I am tempted to drop them off at the big Amazon distribution centre which is fairly close but the fuel to get there and the fact I know they would just put them straight in the bin kind of defeats the purpose...


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## jameson_uk (19 Aug 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Last ditch hope... are they made from recycled plastic?


Doesn't say anything on it so I guess that is a no too


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## alto (19 Aug 2019)

Only chance is a 
Shame Amazon Campaign 


Take photos of your collection
Especially photos of the over sized shipping envelopes for small items
Contact local media over the issue
Send them out to every Amazon contact you can find (Amazon does prefer the “We Care” pretence)


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## Onoma1 (19 Aug 2019)

Used to love the fact that Amazon packaging could be composted or added to my wormeries. Plastic seems such a step backwards.


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## rebel (20 Aug 2019)

jameson_uk said:


> just wondering what to do with them.


In Australia we have something called RedCycle. 
Very few people use it because you have to take your soft plastic to the supermarket and put it in a bin with a small opening; ie you have to push it in. I wear gloves.....


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## zozo (20 Aug 2019)

China suppliers are already using plastic bags for years instead of cardboard box.. Than the product is wrapped in additional soft foam material..
In some cases its great in other it aint at all.. It seems to disrupt the postage service in our country quite a bit..

We thought we had a common rule, that is.. If it doesn't fit the letter box it must be considered a package and should obviously be treated as such. Nowadays a lot is send in plastic bags and the postal company in my country at least gets bonkers over it and don't know what it is anymore. Hence it aint a letter and it aint a box?

Than they give the bag to the letter mail deliverer and he finds out it doesn't fit my doors mailbox.. Than if possible they try to force it in anyway if it seems to fit a bit but not quite. Often damaging it in the process of squizing it in. Than next problem, the letter man doesn't carry "Not at Home labels - We try again next day".. Often resulting in orders getting lost..

Postal service is privatized a few decades ago and the longer it takes it seems the more idiots are adopted to come and work as postman/woman what ever.

Than in some cases also the product vendors seems to be an idiot as well.. For example i ordered some glasware a while back.. It arrived wraped in foam in a plastic bag.
Same story it didn't fit the letter box by 1mm. The idiot postman squized it in and i had to pull it out with force at the other end. Resulting in a crack in the glass.

It seems some common sense gets lost when things are tried to be changed for the better and make things worse.  Change means people have to start thinking again, and for te most people stuck in tradition thinking seems to hurt a lot..


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## tam (20 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> We thought we had a common rule, that is.. If it doesn't fit the letter box it must be considered a package and should obviously be treated as such. Nowadays a lot is send in plastic bags and the postal company in my country at least gets bonkers over it and don't know what it is anymore. Hence it aint a letter and it aint a box?



In the UK, we have letters  which can be up to 24cmx16.5cmx0.5cm 100g, large letters up to 35.3cm x25cm x2.5cm x 750g and after that it's a parcel. Large letters are designed to fit through the letter box. Quite often I've ordered plants on ebay etc. and they'll remove the pots and put the in a cardboard box that's specifically designed to fit the large letter requirements - looks like a really slim pizza box.


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## zozo (20 Aug 2019)

tam said:


> In the UK, we have letters  which can be up to 24cmx16.5cmx0.5cm 100g, large letters up to 35.3cm x25cm x2.5cm x 750g and after that it's a parcel. Large letters are designed to fit through the letter box. Quite often I've ordered plants on ebay etc. and they'll remove the pots and put the in a cardboard box that's specifically designed to fit the large letter requirements - looks like a really slim pizza box.



You hit the nail on the head.. That's likely where the confusement hits in.. A 2 dimensional Carboard parcel dimensions are quite easy to determine.. Depending on the contents a plastic bag can be rather 3 dimensional.. OMG they are getting completely puzzled and lost now!?... Don't know what it is anymore..


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## tam (20 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> You hit the nail on the head.. That's likely where the confusement hits in.. A 2 dimensional Carboard parcel dimensions are quite easy to determine.. Depending on the contents a plastic bag can be rather 3 dimensional.. OMG they are getting completely puzzled and lost now!?... Don't know what it is anymore..



There is a sizing template with a slot in at the postoffice - if you can successfully wedge your 'letter' through it, you are good  They sent cardboard templates out to businesses when they first changed the rules too.


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## zozo (20 Aug 2019)

In my region they don't seem to get that or simply not care about it.. It happens a lot at my door.. The letter postman delivering something that should be considered a parcell because it simply doesn't fit.

And i once called and asked and complained and the service employee tried to use the excuse "It was stamped like a letter".. As if they know how and need to care about the China post stamp regulations and rates. If it doesn't fit it should be treated as a parcel.. No matter the foreign stamp. It was just a stuppid excuse to again save money on their behalf.

They know the Ali and Ebay byers protection. Not recieved is refund.. So if it gets lost they are off the hook.. And care less.. And it happens a lot in comparance. Since i'm a fivit DIYer and order a lot of smalll goodies, o ver the years i personaly count at least 7 parcels not recieved and all from Asia via Ali or Ebay.  And than not counting the damaged ones.


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## rebel (21 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> doesn't fit my doors mailbox


Customers need to adapt as well. We need parcel mailboxes fitted. I don't think it's completely the fault of the mailman.

Changing world needs adaptations by all of us; Not just the retailers.

For example;
https://www.boldmfg.com/products/the-stratford-parcel-mailbox-18-texas-local-pickup
OT: Can you believe the price on that thing? I'd pay $375 but not 10x more as they are asking.


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## zozo (21 Aug 2019)

rebel said:


> Customers need to adapt as well. We need parcel mailboxes fitted. I don't think it's completely the fault of the mailman.
> 
> Changing world needs adaptations by all of us; Not just the retailers.
> 
> ...



Does it come with a electronic code lock and a tazzer? Because if not i sure somebody will put some extra parcels in to prank you..


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## zozo (21 Aug 2019)

rebel said:


> Changing world needs adaptations by all of us; Not just the retailers.



Actualy comming to think of it.. It is all of us that created it for a change.. 

Back in the day we had to search 10 houseblocks for a public payphone when away from home.. Internet? Never heard about. If you needed 1 screw you could go the a small hardware store in town and buy 1 screw.

Than the internet came, yuppies saw the convenience "No more extra rent, no more employees, no extra power bill, just me my pc and garage as storage and the post office.. Yippie, easy money from the couch!. Than the big shopping malls came looking, With a lot but little of everything, only whats common, demand determined by survey polls.

They pushed away all small retailers, they couldn't any longer compete with the price war.

You're missing one screw?.. You're screwed.. Go to the shopping mall hardware department and you can buy a plastic box with 25 pieces and hence you only need 1. Order one over the internet they can send you a 5penny screw with 5 pound postal and packing charges. Hence you buy a 25 piece box ¼ that price.

All this for what initialy was seen as convenience, order from the couch, ore a one way trip to the big malll, no more running around.. Easy money for all, the sky is the limit. Simply with the saying that's life jump on the opportunity we have to change and "One's bread is the others death".

30 decades later with uncountable 70 metre high trash piles reaching towards the sky, plastic nano particles in your daily milk.. We realise we need a change.. Change something again we shouldn't have changed in the first place.. And the economics can't allow for it the change it back the way it was.. The world is collectively stuck in convenience and making easy money..The todays generation willl laugh in your face with a big crazy WHY? If you offer them a small store to retail their goods.

I realy mis those days. With the small retailers with large product ranges stacked to the wall in little assortment boxes.. Able to buy only what you need and bring it home in a small paper bag.

I actualy have such an issue right now, i need to fix a leaking kitchen shower. It's missing a 4x6mm O-ring.. I don't know where to get 1 without driving 30 miles.
Can order it over the internet.. € 0.7 for the o-ring and €2.50 shipping. 

But i guess i'm just a sentimental old fashion fart crying and ranting about back in the day everything was beter..


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## jameson_uk (21 Aug 2019)

rebel said:


> In Australia we have something called RedCycle.
> Very few people use it because you have to take your soft plastic to the supermarket and put it in a bin with a small opening; ie you have to push it in. I wear gloves.....


I was wondering if they could be recycled.   Anyone know if these can go in the plastic bag recycling at supermarkets here in the UK?


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## tam (21 Aug 2019)

There was a article on it on BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49423152

"Amazon said its SmartPac envelopes are recyclable and that it is "working to improve" its packaging options". [...] SmartPac mailers are kerbside recyclable in some cities, and in all store drop-off locations."

Which in reality probably means most of the council collections won't take it, but it sounds like plastic mailing bags can probably go in the supermarket bag recycling.


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## jameson_uk (21 Aug 2019)

alto said:


> Only chance is a
> Shame Amazon Campaign
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like someone got there first https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-49423152


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## jameson_uk (21 Aug 2019)

tam said:


> There was a article on it on BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49423152
> 
> "Amazon said its SmartPac envelopes are recyclable and that it is "working to improve" its packaging options". [...] SmartPac mailers are kerbside recyclable in some cities, and in all store drop-off locations."
> 
> Which in reality probably means most of the council collections won't take it, but it sounds like plastic mailing bags can probably go in the supermarket bag recycling.


You got there first just not sure why I didn't see this before posting ....

This is part of the confusion though.  SmartPac envelopes might be recyclable but what are they....  https://www.amazon.co.uk/amsc only has cardboard / paper and then plastic bags and bubble lined plastic bags.  A quick Google didn't actually show up any results for Amazon SmartPac other than this news article.

Amazon also say to they can be recycled where plastic film is accepted yet the website it links to doesn't have an option for plastic film...


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## zozo (22 Aug 2019)

There is more confusing about the recycling industry.. Few years back a small scandal surfaced with reporters monitoring a Trash burning oven for a while.
And they captured them burning large amounts of recycling materials.. Asking the proprietor/opperator what's going on and why they are burning recycleable materials. The answer was, we need to keep the ovens burning, if there is nothing else to burn we are obliged to burn anything we can find as long as it burns. We simply cannot stop fueling the oven, if the fire extinguishes than we have a huge financial problem to start it up again.

Bottom line it's a privatization again and burning trash is big bussiness where money comes first and before invironment if logistics don't meet up with the demand.

A freind of mine is truck driver, he worked a while transporting recycling glas containers. And said you don't want to know how often i'm ordered to empty them on the trash pile. Its again a demand thing, if the demand is lower than the production and they run out of storage. There is no other way than to dump it back into the invironment.


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## PARAGUAY (22 Aug 2019)

It's amazing that all the publicity education given to us about the environment is ignored or given short shrift . A recent visit we had to a museum while their were bins about and the cafe shop was doing good trade in soft drinks the bottles just went into general waste bins,when I inquired about bottle bin location was told there isn't any but what a"good idea" Mm and has anyone noticed how some firms get rid of cardboard waste ,they wrap it in yards of plastic sheeting ready for disposal .Think I better look for some of the good news!


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## dw1305 (22 Aug 2019)

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> are obliged to burn anything we can find as long as it burns


There are a couple of new incinerators that have been built locally to Bristol, it would be fair to say that they <"aren't universally popular">.

cheers Darrel


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## jameson_uk (22 Aug 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, There are a couple of new incinerators that have been built locally to Bristol, it would be fair to say that they <"aren't universally popular">.


The big incinerator here has been used to _process _the recycling at times 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-40753649

This appears to have been picked up elsewhere too https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-fire-for-new-packaging-that-cant-be-recycled / https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/20/amazon-branded-reckless-new-non-recyclable-packaging/ 

Just a pity that Amazon have given a few soundbites and I suspect it will all blow over.


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## alto (22 Aug 2019)

Unfortunately
“Recyclable” does not equal “Recycled”

Why isn’t Amazon involved in the actual (proven) recycling of their own massive plastic waste
-  though there’s very little green about ♻️ other than the colour

Even after collection, vast amounts of plastics end up entering local Landfills (preferably some slightly distant rural town which agrees to take the Metro waste for a fee) or on a boat to “Nowhere”
 (& in Canada’s OOPS case in which they were caught out, back home for incineration ... all the while protesting this was against policy/licensing and the unidentifiable - then not so suddenly identified - company was no longer in business (ie likely a government crony company that did a quick name change))

Of course this quote from Amazon has give  UK customers at least, the right of return/complete refund - ie, product delivered not as advertised (the non-recyclable packaging )



> A spokesman for Amazon UK said: “Our mission is to deliver the very best customer experience. We work with manufacturers worldwide to continuously improve packaging design and introduce new, sustainable packaging that delights customers, eliminates waste, and ensures products arrive intact and undamaged for our customers.”



I suspect if every UK customer returned/rejected all Amazon deliveries for 1 week - the next week’s deliveries would be packaged differently


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## alto (22 Aug 2019)

Unfortunately this is just a Canadian City that got caught publicly

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-clamshell-recycling-problem-landfill-1.5253287

Several other major Cities have redirected even larger amounts of “Recycling” to _not so local Landfills_ 
And now they are getting out of the business and handing the contract off to private Waste Companies ... that are suddenly involved in “Recycling” ... can’t imagine how that is going to turn out


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## rebel (23 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> You're missing one screw?.. You're screwed..


@zozo You've made my day!!! So true my friend so true!!


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## zozo (23 Aug 2019)




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## rebel (26 Aug 2019)

alto said:


> this is just a Canadian City that got caught publicly


Yes, many cases even in Australia. I still do the right thing and sort it to the right place/bin. I can't save the whole world or change the system but I do my bit.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (26 Aug 2019)

Problem is knowing what practice are and which are not recyclable... for example I've heard wrinkly food packaging plastic is not recyclable...


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## rebel (27 Aug 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> I've heard wrinkly food packaging plastic is not recyclable


Not using the usual services. It depends on locality.

These guys I linked to as above
https://www.redcycle.net.au/

recycle soft plastics.

Keen to learn more?
https://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/war-on-waste/

If there is no local programme like the above, you should campaign to have one made for education of the public. 

Believe it not, I learnt about recycling from my children when they got taught at school!


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## rebel (28 Aug 2019)

For example this town shows how unity can go a long way to achieve a common goal.


While we may not be able to do all of these things, it's good to learn from them.

For me, it's a lovely thing to do while sorting the trash. My family members don't care and stuff the waste all over the place. I use gloves and seperate it all out before throwing. I have created 4 categories - Compost, general (land fill), recycle, soft plastic. We have 4 bins.  So far I have managed to minimise the general waste. Sometimes you can gain pleasure from doing things that others don't want to do/don't care about/ think too hard to do.


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## Gerrypfc (2 Sep 2019)

Amazon use a ridiculous amount of packaging for items sent. Have complained to them a few time regarding it


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