# Algae id in new tank please



## Blueskiesdz (27 Oct 2015)

New tank has been set up two weeks with co2 in the green when lights on, two t5 ho for 5 hrs period on luminaire and 50% water change every 3 days. Dosing easylife profito 5 mil once a day. Noticed this on the Redmoor root and on one plant tip. 

Is this diatoms as its a new tank set up or algae ? I'm carried out some research but still unsure ! 

Do I need to reduce light period, add or reduce co2 and ferts ? Or something else ?? 

I'll add a photo now.... 

Help would as ever be appreciated.


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## Blueskiesdz (27 Oct 2015)

Mm that didn't work....


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## Blueskiesdz (27 Oct 2015)




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## MirandaB (27 Oct 2015)

I can't see the pics unfortunately 
If you're using Profito as your ferts then you will run into problems as it doesn't contain Nitrates or Phosphates,you might want to look into EI dosing.


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## Blueskiesdz (27 Oct 2015)

It's there now Miranda.


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## MirandaB (27 Oct 2015)

Redmoor does tend to produce a white/grey fungus type stuff when it first goes into the tank,which does eventually disappear but it does look like there's bit of hair algae there too.
Someone more expert than me will soon come along and identify it better


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## rebel (28 Oct 2015)

Could be fungus or filamentous diatoms perhaps?


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## alto (28 Oct 2015)

There are various ways to combat algae ...

I'd suggest
1) increase CO2 - I'm assuming you still have no livestock in the tank, so it's an easy option to run CO2 24/7

2) decrease light intensity - raising the luminaire is an easy way to do this (though you may need to wear shades for the light spill  - this depends somewhat on the manufacture)

3) increase water changes, eg, daily for the next week or so  - this will help remove algae & any melting plant matter.
In the absence of shrimp/otocinclus etc as algae clean up crew, you need to do the mechanical removal as much as possible (battery toothbrush ) Turn filter off during the scrubbing, then syphon as much debris as possible (if you're talented you can scrub & syphon at same time); remove deteriorating plant material daily even if you're not able to do a water change.

4) check filter for debris - depending on plant loss & substrate type, there may be more than you suspect

5) continue to fertilize (lightly if you're me , excess if that's your method ... the daily water changes will help to reset anyway)

6) post some full tank shots as this will help you get more directed advice

7) consider adding in liquid CO2 for it's algicide effects (dose depends on manufacture)

8) consider adding some floating plants or "_auxiliary_" plants


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## -serok- (28 Oct 2015)

Hi there!

What's the size of your tank? You're dosing 5ml EL Provito but we don't know the amount of water. Are you dosing any other ferts? The photo shows an algea that turns up if there is a lack of NO3 and / or CO2 in the starting phase of a tank. Moreover this effect gets boosted when there is a high Fe concentration. Do you know your water parameters from the tab?



alto said:


> 7) consider adding in liquid CO2 for it's algicide effects (dose depends on manufacture)


Liquid CO2 for fertilizing tanks doesn't exist. This is a big lie of the manufacturer. This stuff is liquid carbon, that is something different. It's hard for me to explain this in english, maybe someone else can explain it better. Btw... this liquid carbon is dangerous for fishes, shrimps AND plants in higher doses!



alto said:


> consider adding some floating plants or "_auxiliary_" plants


That's right. Real aquatic plants or floating plants can help to prevent algea in the starting phase of a tank. They use nutrients promtly after putting them into the tank. Most of the plants you can buy for your tank are grown emerged and need some time to grow in before they use nutrients sufficient.


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## Blueskiesdz (28 Oct 2015)

Thank you for the replies.

 Alto would it be wise to use only one t5 for a few weeks ? I'm guessing reducing light etc is to prevent the algae growing whilst the plants begin to grow and start absorbing the nutrients ? I've noticed most of my plants are growing well and pearling throughout the tank. The drop checker is green when the lights come on at 4 drops a second which is why I'm confused about insufficient co2. 

Serok the tank is 225 litres and I'm only dosing the profito which I thought was a complete fertiliser ? High fe, does that mean fertiliser ? If I increase the co2 would that then balance out the fertiliser I'm putting in ? 

The guy who owns the local fish shop advised me to start using rowaphos ! I argued that the plants NEED phosphate he replied no they need  phosphorus ! Confused I am.... I read Cleg's comments on the subject and I'm guessing he's waaay more knowledgable !


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## Blueskiesdz (28 Oct 2015)

Serok No3 is 5ppm by the way..


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## alto (28 Oct 2015)

If you go through Mark Evans journals (you can just skim for the great photo content, then go back for detailed reading), he's run outstanding tanks with EI fertilizers,  with assorted commercial fertilizers, with low flow, with high flow, with little filter material, with loads of filter material including purigen & phosphate removing media, with massive light, with relatively low light, with high CO2, with relatively low CO2 ... I think you're likely beginning to see where I'm going  ... it's about balance

Going from 2 lamps to 1 lamp is a major change, I suspect you'd also very much alter light levels across the width of the tank (again without any notion of where your plants are, this may be less relevant), so in my "balance" theme, this is not a path I'd follow - you mentioned that your plants are settling in & showing decent new growth 

Also in this is a double lamp luminaire, many won't operate with a single bulb in place (or if one bulb fails), some people will use aluminium foil etc to block light from each bulb or one bulb completely (try this if that's your preference, I don't as that's directing a lot of heat back up into the luminaire ... & there are alternate ways to reduce light  )

Algae is a very common occurrence in new tanks, especially with new "plantist" + new tank

As to your local fish guy, does he have outstanding display tanks? if so he may have some notion of what works with your local tap water, so don't discount everything he offers (even if some of it's counter to forum advise or literature ... if the guy can grow plants, then look at what's working for him ) - note that in terms of phosphate uptake, most plants are great scavengers via leaf &/or root .. most resins used in aquaria are adsorptive so there is trap/release phenomena
I've used carbon (activated charcoal), purigen, rowaphos etc  - I still have some carbon & purigen at hand, just rarely bother to use either - both are useful for water "polishing", have some effect on dissolved organic carbons removal (that same trap/release) including compounds often used as fish medications ...

Reducing light is to balance light with other nutrients/needs of plants - generally algae are excellent scavengers of _everything_, so it's difficult to push away algae while meeting plant needs - fortunately plants are quite decent at this fight (allelochemicals) so if we create a good environs for plants, algae often becomes very secondary.

A mature filter is another line of defense against algae -  or perhaps for plants   (just as soil bacteria assist in plant nutrition/access, I suspect the same occurs in aquatic systems)

I'm rambling along here as there are so many paths to successful planted tanks 




Blueskiesdz said:


> The drop checker is green when the lights come on at 4 drops a second which is why I'm confused about insufficient co2.


Some will suggest a yellow drop checker, especially when establishing plants (I've a drop checker in the shed  )


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## Blueskiesdz (31 Oct 2015)

Alto thanks as ever for your excellent advice and apologies for my late reply. I have increased the co2 and dropped the ferts by 50% and continued with the water changes. So will the algae just go away in time as its a new tank ? I think I will start EI, is that generally better to reduce algae along with the right co2 level ?


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## Manuel Arias (1 Nov 2015)

Blueskiesdz said:


> I think I will start EI, is that generally better to reduce algae along with the right co2 level ?



Hard to say.... To be honest, I will make quite impopular myself here by telling this by the look of it, but I call EI system the "shotgun approach": We do not have a real idea about the plants in our tank will need, so we just overdose the tank following an overall NPK index and trace elements enough to ensure unlimited growth, cross our fingers, and make regular and frequent significant water changes to ensure our excess does not cause algae. The system works, no doubt, but a single misstep and you get wonderful algae problem and/or melting plants. There is no guarantee EI system will solve your algae problem. However, it is true that it is the better system for those who are not trying to get equilibrium in the tank, and just get the plants right. These concept are separated ideas, in my point of view.

Algae are common during the first days of your tank, and any established system tends to have this problem. This is normal if you think about: Plants are not in optimal conditions to use nutrients in water, and in general any excess of N in the tank in the earlier stages of your tank will lead to diatomea or cyanobacteria. However, the problem solves itself once the plants take control of the chemistry of the water. If you have other types of algae, then the problem can be more difficult to eradicate and might be due to a combination of factors, that could be many: light, deficiencies in some nutrients (usually K, traces, or CO2), lack of cleaning in the tank, or just that the sort of plants you use are not requiring what you expect. In this forum about algae you will find many ideas respect to how to fight algae, which depends on your setup as well as in the type of algae you have. It is a good reading to learn about it.

In general:

-Reducing light helps to reduce the amount of algae but does not solve the problem itself. Unless you correct the subjacent  problem, the algae will be back as soon as you reestablish your normal cycle of light.
-Water changes are intended to "reset" your system. You can potentially have an excess of nutrients so you need to ensure that you correct this problem. Water changes are the answer in this case and help to get control about what happens in your tank.
-An excess of nutrients what really means is that you have too many nutrients for the levels of light and/or CO2 in the tank, and/or density and types of plants. Light can be a limiting factor of growth, and at the end, what is really counting is the combination of light, CO2, and nutrients balance fitting the needs of the plants you have in your tank.
-From the above, it is deducted that regarding nutrients the problem is not the excess but the "balance". Answer to algae is to get that balance, and there is no master answer for that, because that depends on many factors, not always under our knowledge. To fight algae you have to try different things until getting this balance, which will be different depending on the tank, soil, rocks, plant composition, etc. One of the reasons why EI works for many people is because the constant reset of the system through water changes, so good luck when you go on holidays for two weeks!
-Introducing some livestock fancying algae helps to keep them in bay (e.g. _Caridina Multidentata_ and _Otocynclus sp_.)
-Cleaning the tank and filter, to avoid organic wastes transforming in nutrients and unbalancing your tank, it is a good preventing practise.
-Aireation helps, especially if done during the nights.
-Introduce fast growing plants, which is more or less the same than reducing the time your nutrients stay in the water column, i.e. reducing your nutrients level, anyway.

Despite of this, which are general rules, the only way to solve it is through experience and essay/error. Do not give up, adjust the most likely elements causing the problem, and within the time you will hunt down the problem, but be persistent, because algae are. You can see many successful people here, so be ready for the fight!


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## Blueskiesdz (2 Nov 2015)

Manuel thanks for your reply I've read it a few times and hopefully I can put your advice into practice.


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## rebel (2 Nov 2015)

Wow guys, the quality of the responses here are second to none. Kudos!!


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## Manuel Arias (3 Nov 2015)

Blueskiesdz said:


> Manuel thanks for your reply I've read it a few times and hopefully I can put your advice into practice.



I wish you the most success! Algae are annoying and can be difficult to manage, but the most important point is what you will learn during the process, so the next time you will be better prepared to avoid the issues.


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## Blueskiesdz (4 Nov 2015)

I think the issue i have is insufficient nutrients as most plants that have grown very rapidly are now yellowing, holes, torn dark patches and lower leaves melting. I've started EI dosing, reduced the light by 50% now with one 39w t5 ho, cut back affected plants and added a power head. I'm hoping this will help and reduce the algae which is becoming awful ! I'm guessing if it works the algae will re-appear when I up the lights again ? It was never this hard with an SPS reef tank !!!


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## rebel (4 Nov 2015)

Blueskiesdz said:


> I think the issue i have is insufficient nutrients as most plants that have grown very rapidly are now yellowing, holes, torn dark patches and lower leaves melting. I've started EI dosing, reduced the light by 50% now with one 39w t5 ho, cut back affected plants and added a power head. I'm hoping this will help and reduce the algae which is becoming awful ! I'm guessing if it works the algae will re-appear when I up the lights again ? It was never this hard with an SPS reef tank !!!


Is your tank 3 weeks old? It's normal for new setups to go through various algae (unless you are expert of course).

I agree with all your suggested changes. Just cut the dead leaves not the whole plants. Lots of water changes as well. Some of the experts do DAILY water changes in the first few weeks with new aquasoil.

Once the tank matures it will be resistant to change.


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## Blueskiesdz (6 Nov 2015)

Thanks Rebel, I'm hoping I can get the tank more balanced and in control.


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## Blueskiesdz (8 Nov 2015)

This is how it's looking now 4 weeks
on. I think I was a little overwhelmed when I received 30 plants so I placed them individually not in groups. The tank has been on EI a week and has also benefited from some clean up crew. I'm hoping the algae will now calm down !


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