# Dry Start Method - heating question



## kadoxu (6 Feb 2017)

Hi,

I've been planing my new tank for a while... and propagating what I need to save some money and I've decided to go for the Dry Start Method (DSM).

My propagators are on a conservatory where the temperature can be as cold as outside, and the plants aren't developing as well as when the propagator was in a warmer area of the house (before I moved to this new place).

The temperature inside the house can go down to 10ºC in really cold nights, so I would like to use a heater for the DSM. I read about using a heat mat, but I also read a lot of stories about the bottom glass breaking when using a heating mat under the tank, so I'm kinda stuck not knowing what to do...

Any ideas?!


----------



## Zeus. (6 Feb 2017)

Leave the heating on!
Electric blanket and wrap tank in in.
How long of a DSM was you planning.
Coming up to 8 weeks of my DSM but house doesn't get that cold at night. 

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


----------



## Cor (6 Feb 2017)

I've had the same problem.
So I've switch the lighting period from daytime to night time. The heat from the bulbs creates enough warmth.
Meaby that helps?


----------



## GHNelson (6 Feb 2017)

Hi
You could try using a aquarium heater at its highest heating setting....in a plastic drinks bottle full of water..... if you have the space!
If you get my drift!
hoggie


----------



## kadoxu (6 Feb 2017)

Thank you all for your help!



Zeus. said:


> Leave the heating on!


The heating is on, if not it would reach bellow zero temperatures on those really cold nights! 



Zeus. said:


> Electric blanket and wrap tank in in.


Not sure if the Mrs. will allow me to remove the electric blanket from the bed yet! 



Zeus. said:


> How long of a DSM was you planning.


I'm thinking at least 6 weeks.



Cor said:


> So I've switch the lighting period from daytime to night time. The heat from the bulbs creates enough warmth.
> Meaby that helps?


I'm using a Chihiros A-Series LED lights... and unfortunately, I don't think it will provide much heat.



hogan53 said:


> You could try using a aquarium heater at its highest heating setting....in a plastic drinks bottle full of water..... if you have the space!


I did think about that... and I have a spare nano heater I could use, I just need to find a bottle small enough to fit in a place with no plants and big enough to fit the nano heater in.
The only other thing that occurred to me was placing a small heat mat hanging inside the aquarium... but your idea sounds better for my wallet!


----------



## Derek113 (7 Feb 2017)

What about using a heat lamp at night?


----------



## kadoxu (7 Feb 2017)

Derek113 said:


> What about using a heat lamp at night?


Not sure... I'm not very familiar with how they work, but the tank will be covered with cling film, which (I think) means I shouldn't use it on the top, and heating the aquarium glass or using a cheap hot lamp in high humidity is something I want to avoid.

I think that at this moment it will be a bit hard to get a better option than the one @hogan53 mentioned, specially considering the cost. But every input in highly appreciated! 

Thanks!


----------



## zozo (7 Feb 2017)

Cool night temperatures don't have to be a problem, in the tropical regions the nigh temperatures also can drop to 10°c.. Look up for example the  Amazionan rainforest climate averagely also goes from 10°c night to 28°c day with some little seasonal differences. Last time i dry started my tank started also in november with pretty chilly nights and i didn't have any troubles and in wintertime my indoor night temp never goes bellow 13°c.. What i did to get the plants growing a bit faster is gave them 18 hours of light.. Much more important is not getting it to hot during the daytime when the lights are on.


----------



## Zeus. (7 Feb 2017)

Could hang the water bottle with heater in tank so it doesn't interfere with plants

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


----------



## kadoxu (8 Feb 2017)

zozo said:


> Cool night temperatures don't have to be a problem, in the tropical regions the nigh temperatures also can drop to 10°c.. Look up for example the Amazionan rainforest climate averagely also goes from 10°c night to 28°c day with some little seasonal differences. Last time i dry started my tank started also in november with pretty chilly nights and i didn't have any troubles and in wintertime my indoor night temp never goes bellow 13°c.. What i did to get the plants growing a bit faster is gave them 18 hours of light.. Much more important is not getting it to hot during the daytime when the lights are on.


I had a bit of an issue with the plants on the heated propagators I have on the conservatory. They only have a 8W heater each, and the conservatory is way colder than the rest of the house, so I do think they'll be fine without heating, but I just want to play it safe.



Zeus. said:


> Could hang the water bottle with heater in tank so it doesn't interfere with plants


I have an area of the tank were there will be only sand, and I hope that I can fit a small bottle in there... if not, that will be my plan B!


----------



## zozo (8 Feb 2017)

There are those "High/Low min/max thermometers", electronic with hygro or just the regualr fluid filled meters designed to monitor highest ad lowest temp registered. Than you do not need to guess, always a nice gadget to have with projects like this. You just need to (not to forget) reset it daily to get a daily indication of the actual coldest and warmest temps measured.

As said if you extend your light periode to 18 hours you limit the cold night periode to only 6 hours. And since you are artificial with your lights with the use of a timer and it is realy cold at night than switch over to lights on during the night and lights off during the day The plants do not mind that. If there is to much daylight hitting the tank, than just black the tank out during the lights off (your daylight) periode, a few large towels might do.. No need for investing in an extra emmersed heating for dry starts, your light likely is heat source enough and your timer tells it when to shine and heat..


----------



## Zeus. (8 Feb 2017)

kadoxu said:


> heated propagators I have on the conservatory. They only have a 8W heater each



could you use them in some way, will the heater detach ?


----------



## kadoxu (8 Feb 2017)

zozo said:


> There are those "High/Low min/max thermometers", electronic with hygro or just the regualr fluid filled meters designed to monitor highest ad lowest temp registered. Than you do not need to guess, always a nice gadget to have with projects like this. You just need to (not to forget) reset it daily to get a daily indication of the actual coldest and warmest temps measured.


I can actually make my own! I have an unfinished DIY project to replace my Seneye device... I already had the temperature sensors working, so with just a bit of coding I could easily build one myself!  That reminds me! The Seneye may also work for this if I still have an unused slide for it, unless it doesn't record temperature out of water (I can't remember).



zozo said:


> As said if you extend your light periode to 18 hours you limit the cold night periode to only 6 hours. And since you are artificial with your lights with the use of a timer and it is realy cold at night than switch over to lights on during the night and lights off during the day The plants do not mind that. If there is to much daylight hitting the tank, than just black the tank out during the lights off (your daylight) periode, a few large towels might do.. No need for investing in an extra emmersed heating for dry starts, your light likely is heat source enough and your timer tells it when to shine and heat..


@Cor had already mentioned changing the light period to overnight, but unfortunately, I don't think the LED lights will provide much heat on their own.



Zeus. said:


> could you use them in some way, will the heater detach ?


Unfortunately no, the base of the propagator has an incorporated heater. It's a Sankey Growarm 100.


----------



## zozo (8 Feb 2017)

Don't underestimate leds in small closed space, for me they did a great job keeping it excactly at 25°c in a 60x30x30 tank. Any other lightbulb would have been much to hot. 

That's by the way what you also could use, a light bulb in a glass jar (Jam pot) with a metal screw lid.. Hang the bulb in the jar with the cable through a hole in the lid. Cover the glass jar in aluminium foil so the light doesn't shine through and you have your heater. A little 3 to 5 watt fridge light will do i guess.


----------



## kadoxu (8 Feb 2017)

zozo said:


> Don't underestimate leds in small closed space, for me they did a great job keeping it excactly at 25°c in a 60x30x30 tank. Any other lightbulb would have been much to hot.


Nice to know! I may try it before adding the heater to see how it goes. 



zozo said:


> That's by the way what you also could use, a light bulb in a glass jar (Jam pot) with a metal screw lid.. Hang the bulb in the jar with the cable through a hole in the lid. Cover the glass jar in aluminium foil so the light doesn't shine through and you have your heater. A little 3 to 5 watt fridge light will do i guess.


MacGyver style!  Thanks! I love to learn these little tricks... you never know when they can be useful!


I'll try the LEDs first and then the heater in a bottle of water (just because I already have what I need laying around). Thank you all!


----------



## zozo (8 Feb 2017)

you can use a 12 volt lightbulb as well and regulate the temp it with
http://www.banggood.com/DC-12V-50-t...tch-Heat-Cool-Temp-p-933303.html?rmmds=search
Than you could use a small 12 volt lamp and cover only the lamp with alu foil. A simple allround house hold dc 12 volt 1 amp power supply can run a 12 watt bulb. Car turn signal is 7 watt and already gets pretty warm.. 

Can't get a electronic regulated heater any cheaper than this..


----------



## Zeus. (8 Feb 2017)

kadoxu said:


> the base of the propagator has an incorporated heater.



Stick the base to glass on in side off tank or just have them hanging in tank at night


----------

