# Juwel Trigon 190 Aquarium - Need Help things not so good



## John44 (5 Nov 2016)

So new tank setup \ build.

Juwel Trigon 190 Aquarium
190 Litres

Filtration
Eheim 2178 Professional 3e 600T Thermofilter

CO2
DD Freshwater CO2 Set

Lighting 
High-Lite Light Unit 70 cm, 2 x 28 W - come as standard

Substrate
TMC AquaGro Nutrasoil Brown 10 Litres x 2

Decor
Swamp Roots Bogwood & Kamishi Bog Wood
Mixed Slate

Im going for mid way between Low and High Tech Planted kit arrived today so a few pictures below

Its going here




 

The kit



 

 

 

 

 

Nearly forgot this essential element. 


 


So far so good


 

Tomorrow I plan to paint the back of the tank matt black and fit all the various bits - I will add more pictures.

Regards
John B


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## alto (5 Nov 2016)

John44 said:


> Tomorrow I plan to paint the back of the tank matt black


you might want to put on a film instead so that you can change colors at some point - black,  shades of white to blue, smoky/frosted backings all look amazing & allow you to alter the feel of your aquascape

Nice start to the journal


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## John44 (6 Nov 2016)

So tank rear painted and now in its home (picture quality is not brilliant sorry)



 

 

Filter time


 

so *first* issue by default the filter comes with one spray bar - given its a corner tank it would make sense to run a spray bar along each side ? so I need an additional spar bay and some plumbing to connect them together and then to the filter outlet - I envisage some form of T Connector - am I making sense ?

Regards
John B


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## John44 (6 Nov 2016)

i think this picture explains it better, basic plumbing done but of course spray bar only on one side.



 

Regards
John B


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## tim (6 Nov 2016)

Hi John, nice build so far, splitting the flow may not work, water will take the path of least resistance leading to uneven flow, best option IMO is to supplement flow with a power head.


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## ian_m (6 Nov 2016)

There are two ways to solve the flow issue on corner tanks.

1. Make a curved spray bar going around the front of the tank. I have seen this done by small lengths of spray bar linked together by short pieces of PVC tubing. You could try heat bending a length of acrylic tubing to make a curved spray bar. You must ensure your filter is flow rate is rated at least x10 tank volume ie 1900litre/hour.

2. Use two filters and two spray bars. This is what a lot of corner planted tank users end up doing in order to get decent flow and distribution.

Corner tanks are a lot harder to achieve decent CO2 flow and distribution but many people have managed it. Just search the forums to see what other people have done.

Read a bit more here.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...thout-creating-a-whirlpool.22091/#post-226172


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## John44 (6 Nov 2016)

Thanks, a bar round the front is a good idea, Im using a EHEIM professional 3e 600 which has an output of:1250 l/h so im ok there (I hope)

Will hopefully sort something today and post a picture or two later.

John B


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## ian_m (6 Nov 2016)

John44 said:


> Im using a EHEIM professional 3e 600 which has an output of:1250 l/h so im ok there (I hope)


You will need more flow, especially in a corner tank. Either another filter (doesn't need to be a heated one) or addition of suitably placed power heads. I use Koralia after having been through quite a few Chinese cheapies.

For planted tanks you will need at least 1900l/hr in your case, the x10 rule.

I was really surprised that despite having 2100litre/hour in my 180litre tank I was still getting CO2 dead spots that produced algae growth on the plants and the drop checker remaining blue when placed in these areas. Addition of a 3200l/hr power head fixed that.

See my previous link of the guy who used two filters and homemade spray bar on front of his corner tank.


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## John44 (6 Nov 2016)

Thanks for the feedback - If i understand correctly the simple way forward is to leave the existing spray bar where it is and add a 3200l/hr in an appropriate position, or will I still have to increase the existing spray bar ?

Regards
John B


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## alto (6 Nov 2016)

Why not just set up your hardscape etc & test the flow from your current filter

If you do add a lot of flow to the tank, consider fish choice & choose species from faster flowing waters

Like Tropica I don't run my tanks at anywhere near the 10X flow "rule"  (unlike Tropica I've no decent video or photos though   )
Tropica has loads of Inspiration tanks - most list filters, lights, CO2 etc at the end of the video or on tank specifics page
Juwel did these rather nice planted tanks for Interzoo 2014 - you might contact them for specific details on the display tanks.


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## John44 (6 Nov 2016)

So im going to get some additional spray bars and have them at the front of the tank, once up and running if more flow is required I will add a powerhead(s) as required to ensure a good even flow.

Regards
John B


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## John44 (8 Nov 2016)

Todays Update

Well installed the Filter and CO2 along with power etc



 

 

Now for the spray bar, i have fitted 2 bars on the front (getting a complete picture was a nightmare) hopefully from the images you get the idea, once its up and running if there is not enough ditributed flow and there are deadspots I will add a powerhead.



 

 

The flimsy black pipe is for the CO2 and it goes to a diffuser - think the pipe will need to be a clear one, is there an optimum postition for the diffuser ?

Thanks for looking.

John B


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## John44 (8 Nov 2016)

opps the filter


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## John44 (9 Nov 2016)

Think I got to many rocks and to much wood - today is scaping day, pictures will be online later.



 



John B


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## John44 (9 Nov 2016)

First attempt, i have plenty of rock and many large bits but the phrase less is more came to mind. Feedback appreciated - I understand this is a key stage.


 

John B


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## John44 (9 Nov 2016)

I think this is an improvement ?



 

John


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## John44 (9 Nov 2016)

So barring any minor adjustment I have settled the scape.



 

 

 

Regards
John B


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## John44 (11 Nov 2016)

So plants have arrived a mixture of

Ludwigia Glandulosa
Bacopa Caroliniana Emers
Alternathera Reineckii
Rotala Spec Grun

Bacopa Amplexiculis
Cryptocoryne Undulatus Kasselman
Pogostemon Stellatus
Hydrocotyle Tripartica

Hemianthis Callirrichoides
Elocharis Acicularis
Cryptocoryne Amicorum

So I have planted, filled the tank, sorted the CO2 and lighting

Filter works a treat and you can hardly hear it, its currenly warming the water up to 24C
CO2 is working and plants are pearling nicely - Im sure there will be some fine adjustments required.

I added a spray bar and have them both at the front of the cabinet (see pictures) and general flow and circulation looks good at the minute

Tommorrow I will be updatng the plants as im not happy and it looks messy.

The plants


 

Spray bar across the front


 

CO2 and Pearling



 

 

and the finished product - it will however look different tomorrow.



 


John B


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## REDSTEVEO (12 Nov 2016)

Hi John, scaping Trigon 190's is a Black Art mate, but plenty people have done it including me, been there and got the T - Shirt.

Looks like you have got off to a good start with all the right kit, but I will bet you a pound to a penny you will not be satisfied with your first four or five attempts at it, it is not quite as simple as chucking a load of substrate and plants into it, trust me I have been there and emptied the tank on many occasion until I got it right. I have a feeling you will also get the dreaded 'New Tank' syndrome with algae issues. Best start reading up on the algae section now so you are prepared.

Check out one or two of the links in my signature block below and they will take you to some Trigon 190 scapes. Some of the photos have disappeared but there are enough still there to give you a few ideas. Page 3 of a Shady Glen.

I wish you the best of luck with it and will watch with interest.

Cheers,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (12 Nov 2016)




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## John44 (14 Nov 2016)

So Im on day 3, circulation looks good, I can see movmement on all the plants no matter which part of the tank they are in, I have CO2 on for 6 hours as well as the lights (I start the CO2 an hour before the lights come on), I can see pearling which I guess is a good sign

*Water Chemistry*
Does this look ok, I tested the water before the Water Change today  - Guess I should be consistent when I test



 


And the full tank, I will be making changes as Im not happy with layout.



 

Thanks for looking

John B


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## Manisha (14 Nov 2016)

Really nice - I particularly like your wood placement ☺


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## John44 (15 Nov 2016)

Manisha said:


> Really nice - I particularly like your wood placement ☺



Thanks, with out even realising I have created a cave of sorts - John b


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## REDSTEVEO (16 Nov 2016)

Hi John, (see my previous comment) the Hair Grass that you have planted in three large clumps should be split or divided into as many separate strands or smaller bunches and spread evenly throughout the substrate. Remove as much rock wool as possible before planting.

The water looks nice and clear, how come the Nitrite went from day 2 to day 3 from 0 to 80? 

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (16 Nov 2016)

IMHO those two large pieces of slate at the front left and right don't do anything for the scape and are just taking up planting space. Definitely liking the wood placement though, be nice with a bit of moss or Trident Fern attached.

Steve


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## John44 (16 Nov 2016)

Based on advice I have removed one of the large pieces of slate and provided more planting area, so split the hair grass. 

Nitrite reading are wrong - is my poor recording  

I will look into Moss \ Fern for the wood

New picture will be up later along with today's water tests (accurately recorded)

John B


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## John44 (16 Nov 2016)

Day 5

Removed a few rocks and split the hair grass, I seem to have flow all around the tank ie I can see movement everywhere
Should I be starting to see any changes in the water Chemistry yet.
The tank looks dusty (if thats possible) Im assuming its due to the constant moving around of the substrate - see the picture


Current Chemistry


 

CO2 going In





Dusty ?


 


Overall view


 
Thanks for looking 

John B


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## REDSTEVEO (19 Nov 2016)

Hi John, yes you are right that dusty look is from the substrate. If you leave it it on the leaves it will soon start to prevent photosynthsis and harm the plants, eventually developing into algae of one form or another.

You need some cleaning crew in there, Ottocinclus x 6, Amano shrimp x 6 to 10 will do the job.

Steve


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## John44 (20 Nov 2016)

Well its day 9 and all seem to be going well, plants seem to be growing which is good news

I dont see any pearling but maybe im being a little obsessive ?

pH goes from 7.6 to 6.8 after a couple of hours of the Co2 going on and the drop checker turns green


As per the Steve Lancashire sugesstion from im going to add Ottocinclus x 6, Amano shrimp x 10  - cant wait


You can see the growth on these (well I can)



 

And on these - not sure why the leaves on the red plant are curled up - but new leaves are growing from the middle


 


and a full shot.




 

Thanks for looking

John B


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## REDSTEVEO (21 Nov 2016)

Looking good John, healthy plants means good water quality means healthy and happy fish.

I got obsessive also over the pearling, I always thought if there was no pearling something wasn't right, I had plenty of growth but no pearling, then after a few months the plants seemed to get into a rhythm with the lights, CO2 and nutrients and everything took off. Especially after a water change with slightly cooler water.

Have you still got your temperature at 24 / 25 degrees. This is ideal for plants and some fish, but if you start to bump the temperature up to around 29 degrees to accommodate other fish you will see a decline in the health of your plants, it's a real balancing act.

Remind me what you are doing with your water when changing it, I.e. RO, HMA or just plain old tap water?

Steve


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## John44 (21 Nov 2016)

Steve

Thanks for the comments, my Temp is a steady 24 accroing to the filter and I have checked with a thermometer
in the tank and it also says 24 so we are good there.

As for water change I use Tap water and then treat with Aqua Safe, the temperature does drop but its back in a few hours.

Will be adding more plants this week and some cleaning crew.

Regards
John B


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## REDSTEVEO (22 Nov 2016)

Hi John, Aqua Safe is okay, it does the job but it is fairly expensive considering how much you have to use each time you do a water change. There are better products out there which are more concentrated so you use less, I.e. Seachem Prime, or Easy Life Filter Medium. I use a HMA (Heavy Metal Axe) filter which removes heavy metals plus chlorine and Chloramine and I have plumbed it into the hot and cold water supply so I can mix it to the same temperature.

See the link below on how to do it if you ever go down that route.

http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/acatalog/DD-HMA-200.html

Click on the bit that says heated water.

Cheers,

Steve


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## John44 (23 Nov 2016)

Day 12 - and first rescape

Removed a lot of the stone and replanted quite a bit.

Moved the spray bars up which had an immediate imapct that plants are now pearling and they where not before
Still need to sort flow at the bottom front but real progress.

Water is not clear but will clear up soon

This corner needs sorting.


 


Side View


 


Full View



 

John B


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## REDSTEVEO (25 Nov 2016)

Hi John, I know there is a lot of information on this forum on the subject of flow rate around the tank. I've followed it as have many others, with varying degrees of success. But my advice would be not to get too obsessed with flow rates, some of the best planted tanks I have ever seen have been those with virtually still water and a steady flow of CO2 going in constantly 24/7, with the right amount of nutrients and light. Phenomenal growth and massive amount of pearling going on.

So take it easy and spend a bit more time observing what is going on over a period of time before making too many changes.

Remember, the only things that happen quickly in an aquarium are usually bad things.

Steve


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## John44 (25 Nov 2016)

Steve

Thanks,  I think its about there with flow there is now area that does not have movement, never considered 24 x 7 Co2 - must read up on it

John B


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Nov 2016)

The theory is 24/7 CO2 but at a lower bubble count, constant / consistent level of CO2 without peaks and troughs, therefore static PH, therefore less stress on plants and fish. Simples.

Steve


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## Manisha (27 Nov 2016)

The changes you've made to the rocks in the foreground have really softened the overall look - think it looks alot more natural ☺


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## ian_m (28 Nov 2016)

REDSTEVEO said:


> The theory is 24/7 CO2 but at a lower bubble count, constant / consistent level of CO2 without peaks and troughs, therefore static PH, therefore less stress on plants and fish. Simples.


Which of course is a complete load of completely obvious nonsense.

Even if you supply CO2 at a constant rate the CO2 level will fluctuate (and corresponding pH) considerably. During light hours the plants will consume CO2 and CO2 level fall (and pH rise) and during the night with CO2 being injected and plants (and fish) add yet more CO2 the CO2 level will rise (often to fish fatal levels !!) and pH drop.

Fish encounter quite large daily pH changes in their natural environment (possibly greater than in a tank) and provided the pH changes in tanks is slow (over hours) it is not a problem for fish. After all people have been keeping fish for years in CO2 dosed tanks with pH daily swings of up to 2pH and fish are fine.


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## John44 (28 Nov 2016)

So day 17

Overall its going well, plant are growing as the pictures show, I have a good circualtion and we have movement everywhere
I dont often see pearling but at the plants are growing I guess its not an issue.
I have lights on for 6 hours and co2 for 6 hours, the Co2 comes on an hour before the lights.
Before the Co2 is on I have a pH of 7.7 and kH of 5 so Co2 of 3.8ppm and midway through the Co2 and lights period I have a pH of 6.6 and kK of 5 so a Co2 of 37ppm

Pictures below and all feedback welcome



 



 




 



 


Regards
John B


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## John44 (4 Dec 2016)

Day 23 and overall things are going well

I have added
Ottocinclus x 6
Amano shrimp x 6

I have a steady 37 ppm of Co2 during the lights on period (6 hours)
I feed as per instructions using Ferropol
50% Water changes every other day

I have circulation in all areas of the tank and using a drop checker i get a consistent Co2 indication

Despite not seen pearling (which is my obsession) i can see good growth on all the plants apart from

Elocharis Aciularis - its getting taller but some of it is going brown ?

Hemianthus Callitrichoides - which looks healthy but seems to do nothing ?

Pictures below and thanks for looking (water change before I took the pictures, its normally clear)


Amano seems happy enough



 

View from one end


 
Hemianthus Callitrichoides


 
Full view from front


 
John B


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## John44 (10 Dec 2016)

So day 27 and all seems well, decent growth, water parameters settled - currently doing 2 50% water changes a week. Now looking at Fish
Thanks for looking.




 


Regards
John B


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## John44 (12 Dec 2016)

Well my first plant has now reached the surface so i guess its time to prune (not sure how much to take off) also should I let the purple on reach the surface before pruning ?

The grass is now putting out runners - again I think i should cut it back its about 5 cm tall 
All seems quite healthy which is good news

needs a trim


 

as does this



 

Thanks for looking

John B


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## John44 (16 Dec 2016)

Well 5 weeks in and its going well, there is a before and after shot below - I have moved things around etc but clear growth so I must be doing something right

copper harlequins this weekend

Regards
John B


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## John44 (6 Jan 2017)

Its been a while since I posted.

S thing are going well overall, I had some nutrient issues with the plant but they are now recovering nicely, i replanted the foreground about 2 weeks ago and its starting to spread.

Oh and I added 12 copper harlequin (in batches of 6) and they seem very happy

Im sure there will be more question in time - but a big thanks to all those who have helped me.

Pics below


John B



The shrimp are growing at speed


 

The moss has now taken off


 


The full tank


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## tim (7 Jan 2017)

Going to be a nice mixed carpet there John, like the changes, will be a lovely jungle style scape mate, well done.


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## John44 (27 Feb 2017)

Not posted for a while but its been running for 4 months now and it maturing well ( I think)

Current Occupents

6 Amano Shirmp which seem to be getting quite large ?

4 Red Cherry Shrimp - and now 2 babies

6 otocinclus

12 copper harlequin

1 Siamese

I think its safe to increase the harlequin numbers now

Pictures below

Baby Cherry Shrimp - not the best picture, there are 2 of them but only caught 1 in the picture



 

A very happy Siamese



 

My growing at speed Amano



 

General side shot



 

Full shot



 

Thanks for looking

John B


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## AverageWhiteBloke (27 Feb 2017)

Looking good John, very difficult to scape a corner tank but you've pulled it off. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## John44 (16 Apr 2017)

Its been a while since I posted

So some Tech info firsr

CO2 - on at 4pm off at 10pm
Lights - on at 5pm off at 11pm
2 x Koralia at 900 l/h each and placed them top left and right and they come on for an hour out of every 6 so 4 times per day - when on all areas of the tank have good movment - when they are off all areas do have movement but much slower
Water Temp 25C
Weekly 40% water Change
Weekly addition of 20ml of JBL Ferropol (day after the water change)

at Midday Ph 7.6 and KH 7 drops so CO2 ppm - 5.3
at 9 pm Ph 6.6 and KH 6 drops so CO2 ppm  - 45.2

Typical Chemistry mid week

NH3 - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 20 - 40

Occupants

6 Amano Shrimp
4 Red Cherry Shrimp - and now 3 babies
6 otocinclus
12 copper harlequin
1 Siamese
a number of small snails

So whats the issue - well everything is growing and the shrimps are having babies so overall its fine - older plant growth looks dirty, some leaves have holes or a little brown - I suppose i want it cleaner, greener if that make sense

So advice really appreciated

Some pics below with comments to demonstrate areas of concern



You can see new growth at the plant is coming up through the substrate, but the older growth looks dirty and tired (if that makes sense)





The fern seems happy if not a little wild




Poor quality leaves - there is good circulation around the plant at substrate level - there are some algae spots on the glass




The plant by the rock was trimmed a week ago - new growth already




More dirty leaves




Regards
John B


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## Eduard18 (17 Apr 2017)

Hello

   Regarding Ludwigia I suppose that the light isn't strong enough : the top leaves are red while the lower ones are green and sparse; I think there aren't any near the bottom; I had the same problem with Ludwigia in a RIO 300; IMHO there are 2 solutions either you upgrade the light or place the plant in a central position; or the 3rd one - remove the plant; you won't get a bushy appearance with this one unless you supply lots and lots of light
   And I also believe that Ferropol isn't enough; you'll need a more complete fertilizer


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