# Banff Mountain Springs



## Richard Dowling (21 Dec 2013)

Hi All,

Im Finally here! Ready start my first journal of what should be my first ever respectable effort at an Aquascape.

I made my decision of which tank to buy after seeing Ed Gercog’s tank at Aquatics Live. I swiftly went with a TMC Signature 60x45x30. With Lighting I took Inspiration from George Farmer and went with a TMC Tile. Whilst I wanted to hang from the ceiling I went with the more practical option for me which was using TMC’s Brackets.

My first stumbling block was the TMC Signature Cabinets lack of filtration holes on the sides of the cabinet. As I wanted my tubes on the sides not the back I had to cut holes in the cabinet. I used a jigsaw to cut the hole, then grey desk cable grommets to insert into the wood…

 

When it came to the scape I went with a minimal Iwagumi of five Seiryu Stones with Aquagro Nutrasoil as my substrate. I have lacked in my Journal Skills here by not taking photos at vital points but below is roughly what I went with.

 

I decided to plant the tank with HC at the foreground and E Acicularis at the back. Four pots of each, perhaps 6 of each would have been better!

I used one of Oliver Knott's tips, using plastic window film on the back so that have a slightly opaque background (mine sucks and needs resticking but It looks good when done well) Thanks Oliver!

I plan to do 50% water changes daily for the first week. Its been running for 2 days now. I can already see signs of slight melt and thread algae so I have dropped the light to 75% (from 80%), added some more dry ferts and upped the CO2 slightly. We shall see how it goes

 
 

*Aquarium Specifications (Updated 13/01/14)*

*Aquarium* 60x45x30cm TMC Signature Optiwhite
*Lighting* TMC GroBeam 1000ND with controller, 40% Intensity for 7.00 hours (2 of which are ramp up/down)
*Filtration* Tetratec EX1200, Hydor Inline Heater
*CO2* 2Kg FE with reg and solenoid
*Fertilisation* Dry Salts Daily, Easy Carbo when needed
*Decor* Seiryu Stone
*Substrate* Aquagro nutraSoil
*Plants *Eleocharis Acicularis, Hemianthus Micranthemoides (by mistake)
*Fish *29x Red Cherry Shrimp, 14 Cardinal Tetra, 3 Otocinclus


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## darren636 (21 Dec 2013)

Which filter are you using, and which tile?  The stone looks purple- really nice


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## Richard Dowling (21 Dec 2013)

Sorry my bad...Ive edited my post, I forgot the tank spec


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## tim (21 Dec 2013)

Looks like a good start, you could maybe knock an hour or two off the photoperiod to keep the melt in check, most advise a 6 hour photoperiod on startup increasing as the plants settle.


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## steveno (21 Dec 2013)

Looking good  ...  i used a similar frosted backing but despite my best efforts i couldn't remove all the bubbles , i assumed it would smooth out over time but never did so ended up removing, perhaps i didn't give it enough time, hope you have better luck.


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## Lindy (21 Dec 2013)

Why is it called Banff mountain?

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## Richard Dowling (21 Dec 2013)

Just a beautiful place, a source of Inspiration


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## Lindy (21 Dec 2013)

I spent 8 days in banff one january -20 to -40 degrees brrrrrr!

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## Richard Dowling (23 Dec 2013)

Ok seem to have controlled the hair algae growth by knocking an hour off of the photoperiod. Its now 5 full hours, and two hours on top of that which are ramp up and ramp down.

I also realised I dosed a little bit too much Iron on one of the early days (which apparently can cause hair algae too)

Carbon Dioxide has stabilised after my early issues with bubble count fluctuation.

Everything going pretty well, HC clearly growing but E Acicularis doing absolutely nothing


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## stu_ (27 Dec 2013)

Hi
nice start.Hope the hairgrass works out for you.
If you ever fancy a change, this shorter inlet works well, with no noticeable drop in flow.
I have a similar set up


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## Richard Dowling (28 Dec 2013)

stu_ said:


> Hi
> nice start.Hope the hairgrass works out for you.
> If you ever fancy a change, this shorter inlet works well, with no noticeable drop in flow.
> I have a similar set up



Had I seen this before hand this is what I'd have used. At least that would keep the shrimp out! 

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## Richard Dowling (29 Dec 2013)

Fish suggestions for this tank anyone?? I need some inspiration.

I really like Glolight Rasboras but Im thinking it may need more of an injection of colour from perhaps some Cardinal Tetras 

With shrimp I'll get some Cherries.


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## aliclarke86 (1 Jan 2014)

Cardinal's are always a good choice, such nice little fish 

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## Richard Dowling (1 Jan 2014)

Update, Tank has been running 13 Days and growth seems to be glacial! HC growing upwards and not outwards despite trimming down. And Hairgrass again has done absolutly nothing. A majority of the HC increase has been painstakingly replanting cuttings. Seems to be the only way to thicken the carpet at the moment.

Ive just been away from home for three days so unfortunately couldnt keep up my constant water changes, Ive come back to the slightest drops of brown algae on the rocks which ive now brushed off. Other than that, nothing much to report.

I have the lights turning on at 16.00, ramping up until 17.00, from then on the light is running at 83%. It then ramps down at 22.15 for an hour, all off at 23.15. CO2 comes on an hour and half before lights on and off half an hour after lights off.

To prune or not to prune, the hairgrass, shall I cut it low constantly despite it's slow growth or shall I let it grow and leave it?


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## NatureBoy (1 Jan 2014)

Should be a nice carpet pretty soon enough. If you want to avoid the background having the trapped air effect you can just turn it the other way round...it won't attach by static effect, you can tape it on with selotape very discretely. You still get the blurred / frosted out background, but looks more like the pic 2.


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## Richard Dowling (1 Jan 2014)

I will be replacing the plastic with a new piece but need to drain the tank so I can move it give me working room. They're a pain!

If that fails I'll give your sellotape a go.

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## aliclarke86 (2 Jan 2014)

By the looks of your drop checker you have some room to pump in a bit more co2. IME leggy hc is usually due to poor co2 distribution. It is looking nice and healthy though so keep it up 

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## Richard Dowling (2 Jan 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> By the looks of your drop checker you have some room to pump in a bit more co2. IME leggy hc is usually due to poor co2 distribution. It is looking nice and healthy though so keep it up
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk



Hmm, that's annoying, because it's running at a good 2bps which should be ok for 80 litres shouldn't it?

It does take a good 2-3 hours to go from a dark green to light green, I also have tended to do water changes in mid photoperiod which can't help.

Does my inlet/outlet, diffuser positioning look sensible?

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## NatureBoy (2 Jan 2014)

Richard Dowling said:


> I will be replacing the plastic with a new piece but need to drain the tank so I can move it give me working room. They're a pain!
> 
> If that fails I'll give your sellotape a go.
> 
> Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


 
Sorry if I've added to any woes! If you can get to it and peel it away you won't need to drain. You just flip it around and slide it back down...


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## aliclarke86 (2 Jan 2014)

Yeah positioning looks fine (i have same tank btw) that's exactly how I had mine when I used glass ( I have moved back to a spray bar as I much prefer them ) bps is tricky business as there is no standard for counters. I have bubble counters that have such small bubbles I can't even count the bubbles but if I change it then I can count easy. I would suggest getting the drop checker a nice lime green before the lights come on.

As you don't currently have any livestock this is prime time for experimenting with your co2 you can then adjust it if you find that your fish are struggling when you add them.

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## Richard Dowling (2 Jan 2014)

I have a glass bubble counter, the bubbles appear fairly large.

I'll have a play, thanks

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## Richard Dowling (5 Jan 2014)

17 Days in, After a fairly painless few weeks Im starting to get brown algae on the rocks which is slowly getting worse day by day. I know this is fairly normal with new setups. Not sure what more I can do apart from keep brushing it off and doing 40% Daily Water Changes? I didnt expect to still be doing daily changes after 2 weeks.

I upped the CO2 yesterday and there is a noticeable difference on the Drop Checker, also the plants seem to be standing to attention a little more. Ive also upped the lighting to 87%


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## Lindy (6 Jan 2014)

Too much light.

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## Lindy (6 Jan 2014)

As for bubble count, my 30cm cube was on 1.5 bps and It still needed more.

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## TOO (6 Jan 2014)

I would probably try to up co2 (as you have) and maintain or even lower your lighting levels. Personally, I have been surprised at how much I could reduce the light as long as co2 is fairly high. Of course, you will not get super fast growth, but it will be stable and, most importantly, you will reduce chances of algae. It takes a lot of tweaking to find the right light/co2 balance (I am still not quite there myself ).

Thomas


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## Ian Holdich (6 Jan 2014)

Upping the light isn't going to help. Here's what I'd do...

Go back to daily water changes, up the c02 (which you've done), unless you're confidence with these lights take the intensity down a few notches, add some shrimp to the system as well. 

I'm using the same set up as you at present, and I find that the tips of rock and wood that are towards the light do get a little GSA on them, this is normally easily remedied by a little easycarbo directly squirted on to the rock or wood (switch the filter off first), I always find that as the system matures, this cures itself. 

The period you're in is what's known as the transitional period and this is the period people get pee'd off with planted tanks. Stick with it though Richard, it'll come right, it may take a few weeks, but it'll be alright. 

Nice scape by the way! 

Remember...shrimp!


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> Remember...shrimp!



So I'm safe for shrimp at this stage?

I was leaving it a month to cycle fully, at the moment its 18 days with filter starter bacteria used within the first week.


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## aliclarke86 (6 Jan 2014)

I only use my tile on 50% if I go any higher I get into trouble with algae. I only ever go up to 100% for photos. 

Shrimp should be fine at this point your plants should eat up any nasties 

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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> I only use my tile on 50% if I go any higher I get into trouble with algae. I only ever go up to 100% for photos.
> 
> Shrimp should be fine at this point your plants should eat up any nasties
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk



Mine has seemed ok at around 79%, not sure if that's just because its new?

I had considered getting 1-2 Amanos, and 10-15 Cherries to sort the rocks out. I may leave out the Amano though because I want breeding cherries and no fights over food.

Will Cherries clear algae in the same way?


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## Ian Holdich (6 Jan 2014)

This is my personal experience...

I add shrimp after a couple of days of set up. As long as you keep up with water changes, the shrimp do well. At the moment, in mine I have about 12 cherries, 6 Amanos and about 12 glass shrimp. Cherries are good, but I always find that Amanos work harder, as do the glass shrimp. 

As Ali, states they will clear any rotting plant mass that you can't see. At this point in a planted set up, shrimp are a must tbh, they add very little to a bioload, so get as many as you can afford.


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> This is my personal experience...





Ian Holdich said:


> I add shrimp after a couple of days of set up. As long as you keep up with water changes, the shrimp do well. At the moment, in mine I have about 12 cherries, 6 Amanos and about 12 glass shrimp. Cherries are good, but I always find that Amanos work harder, as do the glass shrimp.
> 
> As Ali, states they will clear any rotting plant mass that you can't see. At this point in a planted set up, shrimp are a must tbh, they add very little to a bioload, so get as many as you can afford.


 
Ideally Id like both Amano and Cherry, but I saw the size difference in the shop and ive heard about Amano being quite aggressive with food and also causing Cherry Shrimp not to breed…Due to my empty bank account having set up the aquarium I was hoping to get around 10-15 and watch them breed. I wouldn’t like to have non breeding shrimp just because Amano’s work harder if that makes sense.

Have yours bred at all? Im not even sure if they are easy to breed to be honest.


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## aliclarke86 (6 Jan 2014)

Mine breed with amanos and barbs that like to eat the baby's. Some still survive 

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## Ian Holdich (6 Jan 2014)

If you have one male and one female they will breed, it can take 4-6 weeks to see the babies, but once they get going they'll breed like rabbits. 

Again, if you want a decent sized colony, you'll have to be careful with your fish choice, ime, most small tetras will leave the babies well alone.


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> Again, if you want a decent sized colony, you'll have to be careful with your fish choice, ime, most small tetras will leave the babies well alone.



I was likely going to go with Cardinal Tetras. I like Harlequins but think they may get a little big.

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## stu_ (6 Jan 2014)

T.Espei ? Instead of Harleys. IME they jump though.
Paracheirodon simulans (Green Neons) ?


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

stu_ said:


> T.Espei ? Instead of Harleys. IME they jump though.
> Paracheirodon simulans (Green Neons) ?



I considered Espei when I saw them advertised as Harlequin Tetra but when I googled them under the tetra name I started doubting whether they were the same thing as rasbora. If they jump I'll avoid, had issues losing jumping white cloud mountain minnows before.


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## greenink (6 Jan 2014)

Looking good



Richard Dowling said:


> Mine has seemed ok at around 79%



Does no-one else get driven potty by the whine these make at less than 100%? Can't bear it so always have them on 100% - which is prob why have lots if gda!


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## Richard Dowling (6 Jan 2014)

greenink said:


> Looking good
> 
> 
> 
> Does no-one else get driven potty by the whine these make at less than 100%? Can't bear it so always have them on 100% - which is prob why have lots if gda!



Thankyou

Hate to break this to you but mine doesn't whine at all


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## greenink (7 Jan 2014)

Hmmm. Might start a thread on this!


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## aliclarke86 (7 Jan 2014)

Mine don't whine but I don't use a controller maybe that's where the problem lies?

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## Richard Dowling (7 Jan 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> Upping the light isn't going to help


 
Going back to the brown algae / diatoms conversation above, the reason I upped my lighting originally was because of a comment made here...

Brown Diatom Algae

It says brown algae does well in low light.

Following everyones advice above I have now ramped it back down to 74%, but this article is a little conflicting? If Brown Algae does well in low light, why wouldnt I want to up the lighting and increase water changes?


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## Martin in Holland (7 Jan 2014)

good question...I was wondering the same...I am struggling with brown algae too at the moment and I tried to put some shrimp (amano and cherry) in the tank but, believe it or not, they got attacked by cardinal tetra's which where half the size of the shrimp, they ripped them apart by pulling from all sides at the same time like looking at pyrana's


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## Richard Dowling (7 Jan 2014)

Martin in China said:


> good question...I was wondering the same...I am struggling with brown algae too at the moment and I tried to put some shrimp (amano and cherry) in the tank but, believe it or not, they got attacked by cardinal tetra's which where half the size of the shrimp, they ripped them apart by pulling from all sides at the same time like looking at pyrana's



Really!! When did you introduce the fish in relation to the shrimp?

I'm sure many other people here have mixed cardinals with shrimp.....slightly worrying to hear that!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (7 Jan 2014)

That's the weird thing with fish and shrimp mixes. Some fish which are considered safe can get a taste for it. They also do this to each other. I have seen some fish which are relatively peaceful take a disliking to another type of fish and pester it non stop. Just shows that fish are individuals as well.

Something must have happened in the fish history that is connecting it to either a threat or food source. Can't get a leather couch on your tank though


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## Richard Dowling (7 Jan 2014)

My guess was territory....fish in first who establish their little pecking order and then suddenly in come shrimp to bust up their party  

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## AverageWhiteBloke (7 Jan 2014)

I would guess it's also feeding frenzy. We put red flakes and pellets in the tank so the fish will just dart for what's available. If one gets it's chops round something and gets nutrition from it I would say from then on in it sees it as fair game. As you say though if the shrimp were there first the fish, when just put in will form a defense mechanism for survival and associate that with keeping out the way. Vice versa the fish would see them as a food worth trying if they are already comfortable in their surroundings.


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## Ian Holdich (7 Jan 2014)

Richard Dowling said:


> Going back to the brown algae / diatoms conversation above, the reason I upped my lighting originally was because of a comment made here...
> 
> Brown Diatom Algae
> 
> ...



All algaes thrive off of highlight...ammonia + high light = alage! whether that be GSA, gda, or diatoms. In new set ups sometimes diatoms are inevitable. There are various theories out there, some say it's salicelates in the water, as your filter is maturing. Diatoms can also disappear as quick as the arrived. Increasing light levels would be the last thing someone should do when they have an algae outbreak. 
You have to be very careful what you read on the net, and it's always best to ask advice before messing with a planted tank, as you have done. 

There's quite a few articles (from decent sources) on the net to suggest high light will make diatoms grow quicker. Upping the light will also leave you wide open for different kinds of algae also. 

This algae guide is the one most of us started off with, it's the alage bible

James' Planted Tank Web Page


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (7 Jan 2014)

Bang some purigen and lower your light  

Ecccchhhooo ... Ecchhooo... Echo...!


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## dw1305 (8 Jan 2014)

Hi all,





Martin in China said:


> cardinal tetra's


 I think black-water fish are always likely to eventually cotton on to any novel food supply.

They come from environments that aren't very productive, so they tend to be pretty catholic in what they eat. Cardinals are great fry hunters if you keep them with _Apistogramma_ etc.

cheers Darrel


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## Richard Dowling (9 Jan 2014)

Anyone know if Seiryu Stone constantly excreting white rock dust is normal? I seem to constantly have to brush it off!

Scape is now 3 weeks - Brown algae continuing, also getting very very small amounts of 2cm black slimey hair type algae on some of the hairgrass. HC not looking quite as healthy as time goes on. Some leaves dying off and getting a little covering in brown algae.

Overall not entirely worrying yet though. Hoping it's just because it's a new setup and with a bit of luck the shrimp (which are going in tomorrow) will tidy up.

Photos to come when shrimp are in


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## Iain Sutherland (10 Jan 2014)

Hey Richard, nice looking set up. I'd advise not to trim any plants for a minimum of 2 weeks, sometimes 3 or more. The plants need this time to use there energy to put roots down and convert to immersed life. Trimming will only slow all that process down. 
If the HC grows vertically then so be it for now, mechanical retardation can be applied( push it flat every so often with your hand) to encourage horizontal growth. Once you see roots,runners and growth you can trim.
Moving forward don't be tricked by dc's and bubble counters, if you have no growth on the hairgrass, HC still goes vertical then you need more gas. Listen to your plants, they will tell you everything.... Learning their language is the hard bit  


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## Richard Dowling (10 Jan 2014)

Iain Sutherland said:


> I'd advise not to trim any plants for a minimum of 2 weeks, sometimes 3 or more.



Really, I've never heard that suggested before, I always thought people kept plants trimmed to 1-2cm to encourage sideway growth over height.

Unfortunately I did a big trim just hours before getting this post!

I'll stop trimming and see how it goes.


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## Richard Dowling (10 Jan 2014)

30 Red Cherries and 15 Cardinal Tetras in and appear to be settling in very happily. The Shrimp are a lot smaller than I expected, 1 died over night despite my very careful acclimatisation.

15 Cardinal Tetras have gone in this morning


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## Richard Dowling (11 Jan 2014)

Day 23 - Hairgrass looking good still and now starting to grow, but HC not looking great, a lot of leggy stalks and brown algaed leaves


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## aliclarke86 (11 Jan 2014)

Drop checker is still looking very green mate 

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## Richard Dowling (11 Jan 2014)

It tends to take a while to go lime green, I have the CO2 coming on an hour and a half before lights and yet its still dark green when lights come on. After a few hours its a better green


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## aliclarke86 (11 Jan 2014)

This could be why your HC is growing up. If its not getting the carbon it needs when the lights come on.

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## Richard Dowling (11 Jan 2014)

This is what worries me about the CO2 and my new £60.00 of stock that I could easily kill... Mine is generally the middle one when lights go on and the second last one before lights off. Ive upped the CO2 again tonight a little, its over 3bps now and the fish seem ok. The colour is verging yellowish. Its getting it lime green for lights on which has been more difficult.


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jan 2014)

Jesus that was close! I put my CO2 up very slightly earlier on, the plants responded nicely....but after the lights went out the indicator turned yellow (because its reaction is delayed by 1-2 hours I believe??) and I had two fish laying lifeless on the substrate, Ive done an emergency water change and they're both back up swimming with the shoal! I think Im going to have to carry on with the levels of CO2 that I had and just assume that my camera is showing the indicator to be darker than it actually is.

I have altered the CO2 to come on slightly earlier aswell so hopefully it will be lime green when lights come on. Dont think I can risk higher levels though based on tonights events.


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## greenink (12 Jan 2014)

If you add more surface agitation you get more O2 and can add more CO2. If you're dosing prime or excel then that also lowers O2 a lot. Otherwise just turn the light intensity down!

Looking good though


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jan 2014)

greenink said:


> If you add more surface agitation you get more O2 and can add more CO2


Im struggling with that, in normal submerged use, the lily causes a slight wave/ripple (im not sure if thats enough to oxygenate the water) or if I have it sat a millimeter below the surface or anywhere higher than that it gurgles loudly because it creates a loud bath type vortex which is surely not how it is supposed to be installed??


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jan 2014)

Regarding the Brown Algae problems, Im now starting to worry as its showing no sign of letting up and is now starting to really effect older HC leaves. Im guessing I will have to reduce my lighting even further. Its currently running at 70%. Ive put it down to 50% as a trial, does that sound ok? I dont know if low lights start to effect plants that require higher light by nature? The photo period is 7.25 hours, 2 of which are ramp up and down.


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## Bradleyh91 (12 Jan 2014)

I believe that reducing the light will just slow down the rate of growth, what size is your tile is it a 1000 or 1500? 

Have you tried a blackout to remove the algae?


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jan 2014)

Bradleyh91 said:


> I believe that reducing the light will just slow down the rate of growth, what size is your tile is it a 1000 or 1500?
> 
> Have you tried a blackout to remove the algae?



1000ND

No havn't tried, does a blackout need to be literally zero light or is ambient Ok? I'm guessing co2 and ferts also not required within that time? 

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## Bradleyh91 (13 Jan 2014)

It's best to have no light and no ferts or CO2 needed either. Best to try and cover the sides and Top of the tank to black it out.


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## Richard Dowling (13 Jan 2014)

Today I have trimmed the HC back a bit and tried to remove as much unhealthy stuff as possible. Ive reduced the lighting down to 40%, dosed some extra PO4, increased the surface agitation and kept the CO2 as high as possible. Ive added three Oto's this evening. The tank isnt looking so bad, Id have it down as salvageable at the moment.

In order to avoid water changes in mid photoperiod and just after photoperiod Im going to "try" and get out of bed early before work to do a morning water change. Hopefully this will keep the CO2 consistent in the afternoons.

Positive Thinking!


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## Bradleyh91 (13 Jan 2014)

I'm sure it will pull through just a bit of patients and perseverance needed.


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## Richard Dowling (19 Jan 2014)

1 Month Now, the reduction of light down to 40% and the Oto's have made a huge difference. The Brown algae has almost gone and the HC is looking far more healthy. Everything is growing a lot quicker than it was too so I presume its all rooting.

Ive had to remove my Hydor Heater and send it back because it stopped working. I now have a internal heater as a temporary.

The Shrimp are growing and starting to develop yellow saddles so hopefully I'll have some babies within a month  My largest female has been sitting on a rock (vertically) and hasnt moved for hours this evening...does anyone know what shrimp do when moving eggs from ovaries to tail? Could this be what shes doing or should I approach her with my hand to see if she swims off? Ive havnt seen any of my shrimp this inactive before.


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## Richard Dowling (26 Jan 2014)

Any Suggestions for Adding a bit of height at the back? Im not sure the E Acicularis is going to do the trick, it seems to grow in a bit of a messy nest type way instead of tall.


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## Richard Dowling (2 Feb 2014)

Update, everything is carpeting fairly well, however recently the HC has gone back to looking a little sad, I may have to trim it right back. Not sure of the cause. The corners of the tank have HC suffering with low light by the look of it. But still having brown algae means I don't particularly want to increase it. Catch 22


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## KrishP (2 Feb 2014)

Ottos may help you out in the short term if your still having this problem.


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## Richard Dowling (2 Feb 2014)

KrishP said:


> Ottos may help you out in the short term if your still having this problem.



I have three already


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## KrishP (2 Feb 2014)

When I had a brown algae problem they cleared it up overnight


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## Richard Dowling (2 Feb 2014)

They did when I had it on Rocks but these browning BC leaves are old and don't Seem to be touched

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## Richard Dowling (6 Feb 2014)

7 Weeks and my tank has officially broken me, Im well and truly fed up!

The plants at the front are clearly unhealthy (CO2 related im told) but as you can see the CO2 is belting out and the Drop Checker is yellow, My shrimp are routed to the spot and are clearly unhappy. The only way I can get some oxygen in there to avoid killing everything is by having the Lily above the surface which creates a loud slopping noise, not what I want!

Help!


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## tim (6 Feb 2014)

Hi Richard, sorry for your woes. My advice would be to lower the intensity of the lighting which will enable you to cut back on co2 and in general energy spent on the tank, unfortunately this will mean slower growth, which can also be disheartening but ime rewarding when your tank reaches a point your happy with, keep at it mate


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## aliclarke86 (6 Feb 2014)

Shrimp are out they can't be that stressed when I have over done co2 my shrimp have either hidden or made a break for freedom over the edge.

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## aliclarke86 (6 Feb 2014)

This is my bubble counter mate



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## Richard Dowling (6 Feb 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> Shrimp are out they can't be that stressed when I have over done co2 my shrimp have either hidden or made a break for freedom over the edge.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


 
What you can't see is 10 females all hiding under the main rock...which they don't usually do.

Ive decided to crank the lighting down to 35% which Im guessing will kill off the corners of the tank which are already struggling, but if it gets of the brown algae CO2 issues then im all for it. I have a new CO2Art Regulator on the way which should mean I have more control over the bubble count (the current one is not altering correctly). I also think I should probably go back to daily water changes because things have only got worse once I started doing them every four/five days.


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## aliclarke86 (6 Feb 2014)

Oh bummer. What are you running the light at at the moment??

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## Richard Dowling (6 Feb 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> Oh bummer. What are you running the light at at the moment??
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk



40%. The plants in the centre are fine but the shady area in the front left suffers. 

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## Lindy (7 Feb 2014)

I don't think low light kills hc. I had it under a 15watt t8 before I joined this forum. While it didn't grow much it stayed green and healthy looking and that was in eco complete with no ferts. 

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## Richard Dowling (7 Feb 2014)

ldcgroomer said:


> I don't think low light kills hc. I had it under a 15watt t8 before I joined this forum. While it didn't grow much it stayed green and healthy looking and that was in eco complete with no ferts.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Ok I'll knock it right down and see how it goes.

My new reg has arrived today so hopefully I can control the co2 a little better.


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## Richard Dowling (15 Feb 2014)

New regulator is now installed which is enabling me to control the CO2 better but my diffusers have started letting bigger bubbles out which means even if I turn the CO2 up im not getting any more benefit because most of it is shooting to the surface and being lost to atmosphere.

Is there a way of improving a diffusers bubble size? I think I heard someone using sand paper over the surface of the ceramic disk once??

Foreground plants still brown on the old leaves, absolutly no change to that whatsoever, the new shoots are ok but its the low bits that make the tank look awful.


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## aliclarke86 (15 Feb 2014)

Clean if in bleach solution mate. Its got all clogged up with lime and the such. Get another so you can rotate them  well that's what I do at least.

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## Richard Dowling (16 Feb 2014)

I have been rotating an bleaching. Im thinking the reason the holes have opened up is when my old reg was a bit unstable and sometimes blasted high flows through it when I tried to make an adjustment.

Just when I thought things couldnt get much worse, I smashed my glass inlet this morning trying to clean it with a flexi brush! Now I have an old plastic spray bar


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## aliclarke86 (17 Feb 2014)

Mate this is a real shame but I find j get much better flow with a spray bar and have opted to use one over my gUSH and TMC lily pipes, maybe it will work out in your favour  

Sounds like its time for a new diffuser if its not a replaceable disk 

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## darren636 (17 Feb 2014)

Looks like co2 is not reaching the carpeting plants.


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## Richard Dowling (17 Feb 2014)

The hair grass is doing well Its just this damn micranthemoides stuff...which I have recently find out isn't HC as I originally assumed. Might let the hair grass encroach forward and then start binning the micranthemoides

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## aliclarke86 (17 Feb 2014)

I did wonder... It looks more like HM that HC  in which case it will grow up. I have found it to be a hard plant to grow nicely 

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## Richard Dowling (17 Feb 2014)

I'm considering planting something else but I'm worried about it not staying put if I plant whilst the tank is full

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## Richard Dowling (25 Feb 2014)

Video Journal Type Update... Because I couldnt be bothered to type a list of all the reasons I hate my tank

Ignore the Glass Diffuser in the top right, its currently being used as a basket for some abandoned shrimp eggs!

And I mean Glass outlet not Inlet, and also the tank is 45 wide not 30....surprising what you forget when on the spot!


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## bogwood (7 Mar 2014)

Hi Richard
Good summary, just a shame for you the issue continues.
I have a very similar set up to you, and the main things i did different.
Lower lighting, both in terms of duration and intensity.
An abundance of stem plants, and floating plants. Thinned out gradually,as tank matured.
Shrimps and ottos.
I use a full length spray bar, along the back, two ins below the surface, pointing slightly down, but my diffuser is placed under it, in the centre.


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## Richard Dowling (7 Mar 2014)

bogwood said:


> Hi Richard
> Good summary, just a shame for you the issue continues.
> I have a very similar set up to you, and the main things i did different.
> Lower lighting, both in terms of duration and intensity.
> ...



Thanks for your reply

What intensity and time is your light please?

I was thinking about doing exactly that with my spray bar. I'll give it a go.

Do you not have any surface agitation then?

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## bogwood (7 Mar 2014)

Richard Dowling said:


> Thanks for your reply
> 
> What intensity and time is your light please?
> 
> ...



Hi.
When i started.
Lights running at 40%, on for 6 hours in total, of which was 30mins ramp up and 30 mins ramp down
Even now im only on 75% for a total of 7hrs, and 1BPS

I think more surface movement, rather than agitation. Hopefully making better use of the CO2.

Have a look at my tank, link below.

Incidentally i pretty well used all 1-2 grow plants. best thing i did, and i know others on the forum have been pleased with them.
The speed they took off.......amazing.
If your plants are really struggling to recover,I would probably replace them with healthy ones, which will hopefully respond quickly, now your tank has matured.


Incidentally, keep trying, you will get there.


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## Richard Dowling (20 Mar 2014)

I decided to do a three day blackout. And my to my surprise, the tank now looks good as new. Im starting to think that CO2 during my photoperiod is not the problem. I think Ambient light may be my problem during the day time. I have a light living room with yellow blinds and although light doesnt hit the tank I think it may be enough for plants and algae to photosynthesize.

Anyway, It looks like this blackout has saved my tank for the time being. We shall see what happens now


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## bogwood (20 Mar 2014)

Encouraging to hear, well done.


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## Richard Dowling (20 Mar 2014)

Its still annoying that it looks like I have no fish, surprisingly there are 20 cardinals, 2 ottos and shrimp in there! Hiding all day wasnt what I had in mind!


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## dw1305 (21 Mar 2014)

Hi all, 





> Its still annoying that it looks like I have no fish, surprisingly there are 20 cardinals, 2 ottos and shrimp in there! Hiding all day wasnt what I had in mind!


 That is because they are small fish and it is an iwagumi. They are hiding because they are in a bare environment, the water is clear and that is a dangerous situation for small back water fish. There is some more comment here: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/60p-iwagumi-mountain-scape.29806/page-2>.

The fish don't know they are in a tank and safe from birds etc. If they were out in the open more it would only be because they didn't have anywhere to hide, either situation is stressful. 

You can see the same thing  with shoaling fish, they only shoal tightly in stressful conditions. 

If you want the fish out and about you need to add some more cover, the more cover you add, the more you will see them. If they are really happy, they will stop hiding and shoaling and start to roam around the tanks in ones and twos.

Cheers Darrel


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## Richard Dowling (21 Mar 2014)

dw1305 said:


> If you want the fish out and about you need to add some more cover



Would floating plants help? Something like Duck Weed?


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## dw1305 (21 Mar 2014)

Hi all,


> Would floating plants help? Something like Duck Weed?


 Yes they would, you can always corral them if you don't want them over certain parts of the scape. 

Duckweed (_Lemna minor_) is an acquired taste and _Phyllanthes_ (Red root floater) doesn't do well with a lot of flow, but Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_), Nile Cabbage (_Pistia stratiotes_) or Floating Fern (_Salvinia spp.)_ would do.

PM me if you want some of all or any, I always have plenty spare. 

cheers Darrel


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## Richard Dowling (24 Mar 2014)

Today ive added 3 more Ottos (making it 5) and 5 Amano Shrimp which will hopefully keep my brown hair algae down.

Im starting to notice that the brown hair algae looks minimal before bedtime but when I get up in the morning its taking over. What could this mean? Ive increased the time that the CO2 stays on after the photoperiod which is my assumption. I usually clean it up before the photoperiod, its fine during lights on but grows after dark??


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## Richard Dowling (13 Apr 2014)

Success! Algae has been completely banished, CO2 has been massively reduced since I realised that ambient light was my problem and that covering the tank during the day has fixed my problems. The fish are now happier, the shrimp are now happier and breeding again, and Im certainly happier!

Whats happened to the UKAPS image uploader by the way?


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## tim (14 Apr 2014)

Good to see your on top of the algae mate, looking like it's growing in well.


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## Richard Dowling (16 Apr 2014)




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## Deano3 (16 Apr 2014)

looking great mate love the wabi I need to do one  so is there much ambient light from windows etc and how did you find out it was that just  covering tank or leaving curtains shut ? just curious

cheers dean


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## Richard Dowling (16 Apr 2014)

Deano3 said:


> looking great mate love the wabi I need to do one  so is there much ambient light from windows etc and how did you find out it was that just  covering tank or leaving curtains shut ? just curious
> 
> cheers dean



Well I didnt think there was much ambient light, but after months of relentless brown algae I had tried everything, including constantly increasing CO2. I started to get worried when it got to the point that my fish were on the verge of being gassed every night so I knew the problem had to be something else. I did a three day black out which killed the algae but 4 days later it was back and growing again. So I decided to start covering the tank with a blanket outside of photoperiod hours. Very quickly I noticed that the algae wasnt growing and within a week the shrimp and Oto's had eaten it all. I then experimented by lowering the CO2 gradually which has made no difference to the success. I havnt had a speck of algae since! It was the ambient light all along!


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## Andy Thurston (16 Apr 2014)

Richard Dowling said:


>


Wet 'n' Dry nice pic


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## Richard Dowling (17 May 2014)

Good News, aswell as berried Cherries I now have one massively berried Amano Shrimp! I had read that breeding Amanos can be difficult so im definitely pleased to see that I may have babies of both species on the way!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2014)

I'm pretty sure Amano young need kept in saline water. I may be wrong.


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## Richard Dowling (17 May 2014)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I'm pretty sure Amano young need kept in saline water. I may be wrong.



Looks like you are quite right, breeding would require a sepate brackish tank so that I can separate the young from the adult. It would be such a shame not to breed them but the process of doing that sounds quite difficult.


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## Andy Thurston (17 May 2014)

Richard Dowling said:


> Looks like you are quite right, breeding would require a sepate brackish tank so that I can separate the young from the adult. It would be such a shame not to breed them but the process of doing that sounds quite difficult.


It it theres a few members on here tried it but i think one of them has some success
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/amano-shrimp-breeding-second-attempt.26458/


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## Richard Dowling (12 Jul 2014)

Little update as I havn't been attentive lately! Things went a little downhill whilst I was on holiday for a week. I turned everything off which caused my plants to start showing signs of dying off. My Micranthemoides at the front recovered well but my E. Acicularis at the back is a little black despite looking mostly healthy. I've had 3 female cherries have babies too so the tank is full of tiny specs of shrimp! I'll have to start selling them soon!

I'm getting to the point now where I'm considering rescaping. Neither of my two plants are what I wanted. The Micranthemoides I stupidly mistook for HC and my E Acicularis isn't growing anywhere near as tall as id hoped. Time for an island scape with wood and lots more plants I think. I'm struggling to reach perfection with Iwagumi.


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## Martin in Holland (13 Jul 2014)

This looks very much like a CO2 issue. Aim your spray bar lower, I think it de-gasses your CO2 to fast and add more CO2


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## Richard Dowling (13 Jul 2014)

Early on I had issues with killing fish. Since I lowered the co2 I havn't lost any. I'm stuck between a rock and hard place really! The drop checker looks blue here because I have only just changed the solution. But your right I probably am degassing too quickly.


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## Martin in Holland (13 Jul 2014)

Maybe it's just not reaching the substrate wel enough


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## Tiago Nicolau (7 Oct 2014)

I have been reading your thread from page 1 and is funny to see the transition you have passed 

My tank is almost like yours, its a 60x30x30, high tech as well but with low light from day 1 (its 1 year old now)

What i can saw from my experience is that indeed ambient light was part of the issue since if you can see the tank with lights out, its a bad sign and algae take over by it, 
Other part of the problem was the lily pipe...unless you had those lilies that were curved to the surface, you werent getting enough agitation and that rised big issues due to low O2 (your plants were actually consuming O2 at some part due to the ambient light, worsening everything)

Now that you have this spray bar (a cool sparybar i must say) stick with it, and always aim it to the surface to cause agitation but not ripple, that will cause a natural exchange of gases!
You had all the signs of low O2 distress by your fauna.

Now, using a DC inst as accurate as some think, even Tom Barr (the one i follow constantly to inform myself) states that.
To measure your CO2 with relative precision, use the CO2/KH table and a Ph Meter properlly calibrated (Ph meter pens are okay)

Your light is more than good, but if you want all the corners to grow, you have to place it upper and power it up more, this way all the tank will be more evenly lighted up (maybe reconsider the ceiling hanging  )

HM inst the best plant to foreground our little tanks and the sooner you replace it, be happier you will be, HC inst as light dependant has people say, its really CO2 dependant so the good flow provided by the spraybar is imperative as well as stable regulated CO2.
I even had a HC carpet on my low light tank, the only issue i had was lots of Brown fillamentous algae on the beginning and no fauna 1 year ago, but it was carpeting nicely.

All of what im saying is due to experience on my tank and reading a lot from Tom Barr and using Estimate Index.

Btw, notice that your spray bar is positioned such that the flow gets broken by the stones on the back of the tank, and with the low light, there is no change plants grow nicely there.

I hope i helped you, i like your setup and tank, dont loose your way, things wont be as hard as before


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## Vazkez (21 Dec 2014)

Hello Richard,

I found this journal by an 'accident' and just finished reading it from page one.

First I gotta say nice turnover with your tank 

Did you swap the MM to HC or did you leave it like that?

Anyway your journal make me thinking as my tank is next to the window and even with blinds closed I have still plenty of ambient light going to the tank.

So I decided to to 3 days blackout during the Xmas holidays and after that I will start to covering the tank.

Hope this will help me too


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## Richard Dowling (23 Dec 2014)

Vazkez said:


> Hello Richard,
> 
> I found this journal by an 'accident' and just finished reading it from page one.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for reading,

I didnt replace the MM with HC, I ended up rescaping completely but have used the MM in my new scape aswell but this time in a more suitable position.

I have now stopped covering the tank during the day and things were ok for a while but guess what...black algae is back! I may start covering it again.


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## Crossocheilus (23 Dec 2014)

My new tank gets a fair bit of ambient light  fingers crossed all goes well but I will keep your experience in mind. I hope your new scape goes well, you deserve it .


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