# What is this deficiency? (close-ups)



## Tom (27 Apr 2011)

This is one of the last remaining problems in the Mini M I hope. Brand new leaves seem fine, but as soon as another sprouts, the older one goes brown around the edges, and it gradually covers the leaf. I'm seeing it in pretty much every plant, and have the same issue in the Do!aqua cube. 

Here's a couple of examples:










Now, James' Planted Tank says that brown old leaf edges could be a Molybdenum issue or darker leaves could be Phosphates. I'm dosing 0.5ppm P or thereabouts plus 0.4ml TPN+, along with Flowgrow and Step 1 which both presumably both contain Mo (Yes I'm going for overkill and throwing every bottle I have at it out of desperation - things have improved, so something in there has worked)

Has anyone got any thoughts? The same thing is happening in the Do!aqua cube which has a similar fert regime minus the ADA products. 

Cheers,
Tom


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## Tom (27 Apr 2011)

Any thoughts?


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## dw1305 (27 Apr 2011)

Hi all,
I'm not sure it is a deficiency. My suggestion would be that it is coating on the plant leaves, possibly Diatoms?, or possibly a chemical deposit. Try and see if it wipes off.

cheers Darrel


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## Tom (27 Apr 2011)

Thanks Darrel - it doesn't seem to rub off, which is why I don't think it's diatoms. That was my first thought though. What chemicals might I use could have that effect?


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2011)

Hi all,


> What chemicals might I use could have that effect?


 It wasn't particularly anything you've added on its own, it was more that there might be insoluble compounds formed where the leaves are photosynthesising, probably biogenic calcium carbonate mixed with some other compound (a ferric compound from Fe3+ perhaps?).

It is not really my field and it is purely guess work, so Tom or Clive may have a better idea. 

cheers Darrel


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## Tom (28 Apr 2011)

OK, thanks. I've got some KNO3 ordered, so when that comes next week I will be increasing the current dosing to full EI just to rule out a deficiency. I did post this up on the Barr Report, but the only answer I got really was the suggestion that everyone should use EI so there's no deficiencies, then less people would fill up the forums moaning about ill plants.


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## ceg4048 (29 Apr 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> OK, thanks. I've got some KNO3 ordered, so when that comes next week I will be increasing the current dosing to full EI just to rule out a deficiency. I did post this up on the Barr Report, but the only answer I got really was the suggestion that everyone should use EI so there's no deficiencies, then less people would fill up the forums moaning about ill plants.


Hmmm...actually that is exactly the first thing that came to my mind as well. Sound philosophy I reckon.

In any case, this might be another version of GSA. If that's true, then one has to look at PO4 as well as CO2. If PO4 is confirmed to be good then it's a CO2/flow/distribution issue. Lowering the light intensity would be a good first step until the issue is resolved. I can't see this being a KNO3 issue unless you are not adding enough K to begin with. It's unlikely to be NO3 related.

Cheers,


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## Tom (29 Apr 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hmmm...actually that is exactly the first thing that came to my mind as well. Sound philosophy I reckon.



 

Well EI is happening soon anyway, so you'll have one less person to moan at!   

Thanks Clive - I had a reply from Tom on the Barr Report and he suggests Diatoms, but to me it seems more like leaf colouration than algae. If that's all it is though, I'm not too worried. Will see when the rest of the ferts come, then I can rule things out. I still highly doubt it's flow or distribution with this spraybar setup along the back and high flow. Things in general have improved dramatically since keeping everything stable (I've only just worked out why since reading a Tom Barr article), so maybe it's still sorting itself out. 

If it is a deficiency of anything, will leaves recover once conditions are right or do they need removing? 

Tom


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## ceg4048 (29 Apr 2011)

Well, there are over 10,000 species of diatoms, and they do tend to go away by themselves, so this could be a variant that is strongly attached to the tissues and does not wipe off easily. If that is so then that means there was simply too much light for that stage of the tanks evolution.

Leaves rarely, if ever, recover. Best to get them out of there or the decaying tissues cause more problems.

Cheers,


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## a1Matt (29 Apr 2011)

I have the exact same diatoms in a new nano (the vivarium one).  
I've put a ramshorn in and it is slowly clearing them up.


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## sinan m.d (14 Apr 2017)

Did you solve your problem ?


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## Progen (17 Apr 2017)

After all this time, I sure hope so.


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## Soilwork (18 Apr 2017)

Funny thing is I've got the exact same issue.  Just the edges of my plants turning brown. 

I dosed some ferts a couple of days ago. 15ppm nitrate, 5ppm calcium, 5ppm magnesium, 3ppm phosphate and 7ppm potassium.  The initial response has been good but will have to wait longer to see if the browning I. Leaf edges disappears.  I don't use micros because I'm using soil but this problem was also there when I was using a dry trace mix and hadn't improved using 7ml profito.

My suspicion is a macro deficiency but my tap water is so low in everything that it could be anything.  Using calcium nitrate and adding potassium separately seems to have help since my water is very soft.  Time will tell.  I doubt the op is still around to confirm but usually if people solve the problem they report back.


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## Progen (18 Apr 2017)

A dirted tank doesn't negate the need for micro supplementation unless you have a way of analyzing your soil's trace values at regular intervals. At manufacturers' suggested dosages, you can only do good and no harm.

ps. I'm a soil believer. All 3 of my shrimp tanks and a 2' cube I'm setting up for someone are all dirted. After I move, I'm going bigger and dirtier.


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## Soilwork (18 Apr 2017)

Progen said:


> A dirted tank doesn't negate the need for micro supplementation unless you have a way of analyzing your soil's trace values at regular intervals.



I feel like I agree but I've had many problems using micro Fertilisers including severe algae, stunting and fauna death.  I managed to get away without dosing trace mixes in my last aquarium which was 180 litre dirtied and fairly heavily planted. This coupled with that fact that this problem hasn't been alleviated with aquarium plant food trace mix and profito leads me to the conclusion it's not a micro issue.  I could be wrong though.

Soil is king,  it just works.


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## Simon Taylor (5 May 2017)

Copper deficiency causes leaf edge necrosis in hygrophila polysperma. Maybe this is your problem? Copper deficiency is a common problem in planted aquarums as copper in excess is toxic to fish so manufacturers are reluctant to add (enough of) it to their fertilisers.


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