# Primordial - The beginning of the end.



## Tim Harrison (18 Aug 2013)

*pri·mor·di·al*(pr


-môr

d

-

l)
_adj._
*1. *Being or happening first in sequence of time; original.
*2. *Primary or fundamental: _play a primordial role._
*3. *_Biology_ Belonging to or characteristic of the earliest stage of development of an organism or a part: _primordial cells._
_n._
A basic principle.

My first Iwagumi...
...so far a rough sketch...
Thought I'd start with a definition it seemed appropriate - like George did with Scree. My main inspiration is perhaps limestone pavement at Malham Cove with its clints and grikes - one of my favourite places...ancient and visceral.

Any ideas for planting would be gratefully received. I like the idea of Eleocharis sp. 'mini' foreground or Hc "Cuba", something a bit taller for the mid-ground like E. parvula and/or perhaps Echinodorus tenellus, and maybe something like Cyperus helferi for the background along with a clump of bright red stems somewhere behind the Oyaishi rock.


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## sa80mark (18 Aug 2013)

Looks great and the plant list sounds perfect the red stems are an interesting idea I cant picture how it will look but it will definitely add an interesting focal point, 
What size tank and lights are you using ?


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## Andy Thurston (18 Aug 2013)

Malham cove is about 17 miles from me and is stunning. One day im going to make a scape of it but i need to hone my skills to do it justice first.
Looking forward to this been planted.


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## Ian Holdich (18 Aug 2013)

Love it Troi, really good hardscape!


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## mlgt (19 Aug 2013)

Looking real good.


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## aliclarke86 (19 Aug 2013)

That is a killer layout. Very much looking forward to this one

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## Deano3 (19 Aug 2013)

great rock layout love it ,looking forward to seeing planted

Dean


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## Tim Harrison (19 Aug 2013)

sa80mark said:


> Looks great and the plant list sounds perfect the red stems are an interesting idea I cant picture how it will look but it will definitely add an interesting focal point,
> What size tank and lights are you using ?


 
Thanks Mark, I'm not sure if the stems will work, but then I'm not sure the entire scape will work Strictly speaking I don't think it's really that conventional - I've already bent a few rules For instance, the Oyaishi stone is positioned so it's a lot more than 2/3 the tank height, I want its pinnacle to be just below the waterline, and I've used an even number of rocks; I read somewhere that traditional Iwagumi use an odd number

The tank is George's old custom optiwhite shallow H25x40x60cm, it hasn't had an outing since High-energy soil-substrate layout - updated | UK Aquatic Plant Society As for my lighting, it's my own DIY LED rig, details here...The Dark Side or What Lurks Beneath | Page 3 | UK Aquatic Plant Society



Big clown said:


> Malham cove is about 17 miles from me and is stunning. One day im going to make a scape of it but i need to hone my skills to do it justice first.
> Looking forward to this been planted.


 
17 miles from the Cove ...I can only wish, stuck in the middle of suburban nowhere with concrete cows...as I am. I think you should get right on and hone your skills with a scape of Malham Cove immediately, I couldn't think of a better way to hone anyone's skills. I'm sure whatever you come up with will do it justice, and besides it's all part of the fun I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed with the planting yet I may even give DSM a go.



Ian Holdich said:


> Love it Troi, really good hardscape!


 
Thanks Ian that's much appreciated. I could only get hold of largish rocks so they were a bit of a git to place - most are like icebergs - a lot of the mass is hidden in the sand. I ended up using the angle grinder to get the two smaller stones in the foreground. The LFS called the stone grey pillar rock, looks like ryuoh or some such - any ideas?. Overall I'm pleased with it but it still needs a bit of tweaking and more sand...I feel another trip to LFS coming on...



mlgt said:


> Looking real good.


 


aliclarke86 said:


> That is a killer layout. Very much looking forward to this one





Deano3 said:


> great rock layout love it ,looking forward to seeing planted Dean


 
Thanks mlgt, ali, and Deano, I hope it lives up to expectation, there's still plenty of room for it all to go completley Pete Tong...


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## LondonDragon (9 Sep 2013)

Nice rocks  any updates?


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## Tim Harrison (9 Sep 2013)

Thanks for asking Paulo, but no, not really - I've fiddled with the rocks a bit and pushed the sand around with a paint brush, but that's about it. I've been waiting for the man at the LFS to order me some more Unipac maui. Meanwhile, I've got to thinking it's all a bit predictable, so, other than the learning curve, I'm not sure where I'm going with it I guess I'm waiting for divine inspiration or summit equally esoteric, like small to medium sized seiryu stone that matches the existing And I'm kinda enjoying watching the slow progress of Cryptic Haven at the mo' so I'm in no great rush. Manyana


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## LondonDragon (10 Sep 2013)

It looks great and should go for it, so what if its predictable, just do something you will enjoy  get a final photo and start a new venture  gives you time to think about what next  Just plant it!


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## Tim Harrison (18 Sep 2013)

Ok..I liked the original...it just wasn't very original, so I brought more rocks and had another go, this is what I came up with...









I like it much better...


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## LondonDragon (18 Sep 2013)

Troi said:


> I like it much better...


Agreed, nice hardscape  time to get planting


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## Tim Harrison (18 Sep 2013)

Thanks Paulo...just ordered several pots of _Eleocharis_ sp. Mini from Freshwater Shrimp's eBay shop...gona be a monoculture...


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## Alastair (18 Sep 2013)

Looks great mate. Love the hard scape layout. I agree with Paulo get it planted ha ha.  I wish I had the patience of some on here when it comes to taking your time 

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## aliclarke86 (18 Sep 2013)

OK hands up I loved the first layout but this will look stunning! Do you have any thoughts on inhabitants??

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## Tim Harrison (18 Sep 2013)

Thanks Alastair, I've tweaked it a little more and I'm actually impatient to get it up and running now.
And thanks also Ali...as for inhabitants, I'm not sure, aside from the usual clean up crew - Amano shrimp and ottos. I like the idea of neon and cardinal tetras but I already have loads in Cryptic Haven. I also like Harlequins but they are jumpers extraodinaire. Galaxy Rasboras would be cool, but expensive. Dwarf Golden Barbs, are another option I've considered - very amusing and inquisitive little fish, and a good schooler -some of the time, but very difficult to get hold of. The other popular choice would be Ember Tetras, I think a shoal of around 20 would look amazing. Either way I think I'm going to buy some decent shrimp this time too. Another thought that just occurred to me would be a swarm of Chilly Rasbora, but I would definitely need a lid of some sort as they are excellent jumpers too.


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## James D (19 Sep 2013)

The new hardscape looks really nice! Can't wait to see it planted up.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (19 Sep 2013)

Hi troi,
I prefer waaayyyy more the second attempt !! 
Congrats that a good scape. I like how stone are place and how all the veins have the same direction. 
Plus it will be easier to manage flow and distribution in that type of scape ! The first one with the vertical stones was having too much tension in it, and distribution would be a bit harder in this configuration. 
Looking forward for it to be planted. 

Cheers mate


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2013)

Thanks both


zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> The first one with the vertical stones was having too much tension in it,


You're right about that, it was way too contrived and I changed it soon after the image was taken to this...





It's better, but it's still not what I wanted to achieve. I was trying to get the more naturalistic feel of a rock outcrop, like the ones I'd seen on the beaches of Devon and Cornwall, which I hope I have done now...


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (19 Sep 2013)

Will you use a spray bar method for distribution ?? Or a Lilly ?


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2013)

I'll use a lilly pipe for now but this is definitely on my wishlist Cascade Glass Spray Bar 400mm x 13mm Closed End . But it'll have to stay there for now; I've spent a fortune on aquascaping materials over the last two weeks or so.


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## aliclarke86 (19 Sep 2013)

I find it more reminiscent of Dartmoor national park if you have ever been. Its a fantastic place. http://www.dartmoor-npa.gov.uk/__data/assets/image/0003/276753/20120925-Neil-Higher-tor.jpg

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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2013)

I have many times...it's nice that it's evoked memories of Dartmoor. The image below, snapped with my phone, is kinda my inspiration...





Not sure it translates well though...


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## Ady34 (19 Sep 2013)

I much prefer the new layout too Troi. The angle shot shows perfectly the alignment of the rocks and it looks very natural. Will look great with just the grass


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## justin85 (19 Sep 2013)

Very nice scape!


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2013)

Thanks Ady, I've stood the large rock at the top up a little more it wasn't quite right, I'm hoping the plants will arrive tomorrow And thanks too Justin.


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## tim (19 Sep 2013)

I think you've captured your inspiration image rather well, the rocks flow very nicely together and the grass will compliment the scape perfectly IMO, will you be leaving any of the foreground unplanted or are you going for full coverage ? Looks spot on troi.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2013)

Hi Tim, thanks. I plan to just plant between the rocks, so there will be at least some open sand all the way around.


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## Tim Harrison (20 Sep 2013)

Well, the plants arrived today, and they are excellent specimens. So it's all planted and I'm back cooking on gas once more...


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## Alastair (20 Sep 2013)

Very nice Troi.  You've certainly gone over the dark but in style and your scaping is getting better each time. Really nice layout and very eye catching  

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## plantbrain (20 Sep 2013)

The grass will grow in nice and be easy to care for, you do not NEED much light for this tank.
The sand looks like dolomite and then the Seiryu, carbonates also.
DO NOT RELY on the drop checker for CO2. Plants and pH/KH are better.

Add shrimp soon, maybe 2 weeks after set up.


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## Ady34 (20 Sep 2013)

Agree with Alastair. Getting very skilled at this mate, really like the simplicity in planting against the intricacy of the rocks, it kind of highlights the hardscape, with the plants accompanying rather than the other way round. 
Will look really nice when the grass fills in in the same way that George's Project Scree was so successful.
Cheerio,
Ady


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## Curvball (20 Sep 2013)

Beautiful. Love the simplicity.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## foxfish (20 Sep 2013)

I think the scape looks fantastic - very well done indeed.
I feel kind of guilty to ask though.. the tank seems to have quite wide silicone joints...or is that just an illusion?


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## aliclarke86 (20 Sep 2013)

The second shot (angle from the right) looks awesome!! Really great job mate. Going back to your post about insperation, I think insperation is the key word. Taking from it what you love and creating something with it in mind. I think it translates beautifuly mate. Grand job

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## Tim Harrison (21 Sep 2013)

Thanks guys for all your kind comments.



Alastair said:


> Very nice Troi. You've certainly gone over the dark but in style and your scaping is getting better each time. Really nice layout and very eye catching
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


Thanks Alistair, I guess there are so many talented aquascapers on this forum who are willing to help with techniques and best practice that some of it's bound to rub off...eventually



plantbrain said:


> The grass will grow in nice and be easy to care for, you do not NEED much light for this tank.
> The sand looks like dolomite and then the Seiryu, carbonates also.
> DO NOT RELY on the drop checker for CO2. Plants and pH/KH are better. Add shrimp soon, maybe 2 weeks after set up.


Tom, thanks very much for the advice. I've never really had that much success with hairgrass, it's always just kinda hung in there, so I need as much help as I can get. I'm gona get Amanos in there ASAP.



Ady34 said:


> Agree with Alastair. Getting very skilled at this mate, really like the simplicity in planting against the intricacy of the rocks, it kind of highlights the hardscape, with the plants accompanying rather than the other way round.
> Will look really nice when the grass fills in in the same way that George's Project Scree was so successful.
> Cheerio, Ady


Thanks Ady, I've tired to stick to the fundamentals of Iwagumi, where the rocks are the star and plants the complement, so it's nice of you to notice.



Curvball said:


> Beautiful. Love the simplicity. Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


Thanks Curvball, I like simplicity...less is often more



foxfish said:


> I think the scape looks fantastic - very well done indeed.
> I feel kind of guilty to ask though.. the tank seems to have quite wide silicone joints...or is that just an illusion?


 
Thanks, foxfish it's always nice to get compliments from one of the hobby's grandees And yes they are...thanks for pointing that out...I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it. I guess the tank is getting on a bit, I'm not sure exactly how old it is, but George will know, it's his old shallow



aliclarke86 said:


> The second shot (angle from the right) looks awesome!! Really great job mate. Going back to your post about insperation, I think insperation is the key word. Taking from it what you love and creating something with it in mind. I think it translates beautifuly mate. Grand job Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4


Thanks ali, I think that's the hard bit, knowing what you want to achieve in your mind but then translating it to reality.


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## plantbrain (24 Sep 2013)

I think 50 umols is plenty of light.
Now on going maintenance routines for folks with such scapes:

About 1x every one to three months or so, you will likely need to do a large water change.
When you do this, H2O2 and Excel/easy carb will help spot clean the rock and keep it clean.
Some harder green algae are okay as long as it's not changing the color of the rock too much, too obvious etc....... it makes a nice patina.  
Excel will kill BBA pretty good.
H2O2, most everything else if the Excel did not work. 
Just do not get any on the plant leaves if they are emergent when you do this. Submerse is generally okay.
Siphon the sand up that has any algae, add more and rake it around some to keep it from getting covered.

This hairgrass type grows very easily for me and my client's.

Very clean water and filters stay clean for months, so you can focus on the fish.

ADA adds $$$$$ to the tank, equipment, hardscape, then they go cheap on plants and even cheaper fish(or absent near as I can tell in many cases).
Frankly I've never liked that approach, it's like having an awesome Zoo display, then filling it field mice and farm animals. 

Most of us come from the fish hobby, then focus on the scape side, but..........generally most hobbyists always wanted a nice scape AND their nice fish as well.
ADA tends to focus on the scape, and the fish are after thoughts. There is no good reason not to focus on the fish 1St, then focus on a suited scape for those species.
Open minimal plant scapes tend to offer this aesthetic, and most all aquarist like this design approach.
A good blend of both goals.


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## Tim Harrison (25 Sep 2013)

Thanks Tom I've been wondering about the best way to keep the rocks and sand clean once they inevitably start to become covered in algae. I always thought that scrubbing away with a hard toothbrush on its own would eventually prove a loosing battle.
I'm pleased with the minimal aesthetic I've created and have been thinking about what species of fish would suit it best. For some reason Glowlight tetras recently popped in to my head, I suppose because it's one of my favourite fish from way back, but I wasn't sure it'd be suitable for a minimal plant scape like mine, so I Googled it and discovered George had beaten me to it with Project Scree. I think its orange stripe would be a perfect compliment to the grey and green of the scape, but I'm also thinking that maybe they'll appear a bit too washed out against the light coloured sand.


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## foxfish (25 Sep 2013)

I have recently got into buying killi fish eggs on line...really good fun I also love Japanese rice fish, they are very active & look great in breeding colour which is pretty much all the time LOL


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## Tim Harrison (26 Sep 2013)

Just Google - killi fish eggs - and got directed to eBay...wow that does look like good fun and relatively inexpensive - well at least to buy eggs.


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## foxfish (26 Sep 2013)

Yeah but you want to join up here .... Facebook lots of fantastic bargains.
You just need to get some micro worms started before you buy the eggs
. Regardless of the info available I have had total success by just putting the eggs in a fine mesh breeding cage hanging on the aquarium edge.
The eggs hatch, you feed them & they become your babies!
My rice fish just wont stop breeding but I have not made the effort to hatch any of their eggs as yet.
Really good fun,  interesting & beautiful end results in the way of colourful small fish.


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## Tim Harrison (29 Oct 2013)

A quick video update...best viewed in 1080p.


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## sa80mark (29 Oct 2013)

Looking really well, im really getting into these 1 plant type tanks 

Just out of interest what filter are you using ?


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## Tim Harrison (29 Oct 2013)

Thanks...Eheim Eco Pro 300


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## xtevo (30 Oct 2013)

Love the simplicity of it!  Nicely done!


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## Curvball (30 Oct 2013)

Very cool 


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## Ian Holdich (30 Oct 2013)

Looks good, are they Pygmy corys in there?


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## Tim Harrison (30 Oct 2013)

Thanks xtevo and Curball...Less is definitely more...it's inversely proportional to the amount of maintenance required...TBH prior to the video the rocks and sand were covered in brown algae...it took about 2 hours of elbow grease, a toothbrush, and plenty of excel to get rid of it...and that's despite regular ongoing maintenance...

...And then to add insult to injury I was cleaning my glass inlet pipe and I had an Ian Holdich "Great!" moment...my flexi-brush head broke off in the bend (it must be catching). In the end I had to cut the bottom of the pipe off to get it out...well actually there was some cutting to a point...and then it just snapped

Talk of the Devil...hi Ian, they are Pygmys. I've been after some for ages and couldn't believe my luck when I spied them in the LFS, I brought 6. Funny little fish they try to shoal with everything including the amanos


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## Tim Harrison (30 Oct 2013)

A couple of images from a more 3D angle - with a before image which gives an idea of how much the Eleocharis sp. mini has grown in nearly 6 weeks...thought the contrast would interest.


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## Ady34 (12 Nov 2013)

Very nice Troi.


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## darren636 (12 Nov 2013)

This is really very nice.  I am not a hardscape person - but this is delicious.


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## Tim Harrison (12 Nov 2013)

Hi Ady, thanks mate, and Darren that's really nice of you to say so too...both comments mean a lot coming from enthusiasts of your calibre...


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## Alastair (12 Nov 2013)

This is beautiful mate.  Really like it. A complete opposite to what you started on here with. Lovely


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## TOO (12 Nov 2013)

This is a truly beautiful one.

Do you have nutrient rich substrate below the sand?

How much do you plan to let the Eleocharis expand?

Thomas


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## Tim Harrison (13 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> This is beautiful mate. Really like it. A complete opposite to what you started on here with. Lovely


 
Thanks Alastair...it's this forum, it's pretty inspirational.

Hey Thomas, that's kind of you to say so, and good questions. OK, yes there is a sort of nutrient rich substrate below the sand. There are several small filter media bags containing cat litter and osmocote...the kind that takes about 12-18 months to dissolve. It was also to bulk out the sand which is fairly expensive. I'm not sure how well it's working though because I'm also dosing the water column with 2mls TNC Complete every day.

The original plan was to keep the grass within the boundary of the hardscape but I'm going to let it spread now to see how it looks, but I think I'll keep it away from the glass. I've also planted some HC cuba in a few places, and put some Ammania gracilis in the back left hand corner. Neither may stay but I've always been curious to see if I could grow them...and so far it looks fine.


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## Rob P (13 Nov 2013)

Looks fantastic, perhaps you can come and arrange some rock work for me???!!! 

Really nice mate


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## James D (13 Nov 2013)

Beautiful Troi. I really want a rescape now.


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## Gary Nelson (13 Nov 2013)

Really nice! You have planted this up perfect to show the excellent hardscape off - how do you keep those rocks looking so fresh and new?


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## foxfish (13 Nov 2013)

Gary Nelson said:


> Really nice! You have planted this up perfect to show the excellent hardscape off - how do you keep those rocks looking so fresh and new?


 Twinstar?


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## Rob P (13 Nov 2013)

Gary Nelson said:


> Really nice! You have planted this up perfect to show the excellent hardscape off - how do you keep those rocks looking so fresh and new?



Read up a few posts, a toothbrush, couple of hours and lots of elbow grease! lol Well worth it though


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## Andy D (13 Nov 2013)

Looks really good. Loving the rock layout!


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## Tim Harrison (14 Nov 2013)

Thanks Rob, James, and Andy, your kind comments are really appreciated 



Gary Nelson said:


> Really nice! You have planted this up perfect to show the excellent hardscape off - how do you keep those rocks looking so fresh and new?


Thanks Gary, that's praise indeed - As for the rocks, it's like rob said, but the key ingredient is Excel. Tom Barr mentioned I'd need to give it a good going over from time to time, and boy was he right, it's like some of my old girlfriends...very high maintenance



foxfish said:


> Twinstar?


 
Excellent idea...I'd be willing to put my principles aside if it cut down on maintenace, especially scrubbing rocks with a toothbrush...it's almost like an army beasting, except I volunteered to do it


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## Curvball (15 Jan 2014)

Any updates Troi?


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## Rob P (15 Jan 2014)

Curvball said:


> Any updates Troi?


 
Think it's been taken down due to BBA issues?


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## Curvball (15 Jan 2014)

Rob P said:


> Think it's been taken down due to BBA issues?



Bummer.


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## Tim Harrison (15 Jan 2014)

Hi guys, thanks for the interest, I tore it down last Saturday. You're right, it got smothered in BBA, or some such nasty - I'm not entirely sure really. But ultimately lack of enthusiasm and inattention did for it in the end.
The BBA, or whatever it was, started off innocuously enough and then became decidedly Machiavellian; insidiously invading, whilst I wasn't looking.
The beginning of the end - foreground...


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## Curvball (15 Jan 2014)

That is a real shame. Will you try this type of layout again?


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## Tim Harrison (16 Jan 2014)

Hi Curvball, that's a good question and I considered it a while ago. The short answer is no. I must admit that Iwagumi has a certain immediate visual impact but you have to work hard to maintain it, but that's ok. Beyond that though there isn't really that much to it and I kinda lost interest after a month or so.
Also, my critters behaved unnaturally skittish, especially my shrimp which found a greater affinity for the parquet flooring. If I did try another Iwagumi I think it'd have to be in a larger tank, and it'd be a variation on a theme with taller overhanging plants at the back to provide more cover for the critters.


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## Paks (30 Nov 2014)

is that grass a dwarf hairgrass ? Sorry for asking but since im new to this hobby and im planning to use dwarf hairgrass for my iwagumi set-up


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## Tim Harrison (25 Dec 2014)

Sorry missed this somehow. If you're still in need of an answer...it's_ Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'._


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## jack-rythm (2 Jan 2015)

Hey Troi,

I have just read through this thread and sorry to hear it went the wrong way. It was looking extremely impressive. I remember when I had my small triptychs and I suffered the same thing. I found my rocks turning green and I could not seem to get rid of this.. I then moved to jungle and felt less attention was needed. How did you go about keeping your rocks so clean? how long into the scape did you decide to tear it down?


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## Tim Harrison (2 Jan 2015)

Thanks Jack, that's nice of you to say so. I think it only lasted about 4 months, and it was about 1 month before I had to clean the rocks...excel, a toothbrush, and good old fashioned elbow grease, with the water level as low as I dared to make it easier. I had to do this twice, and in between it soon deteriorated to an algae covered mess despite regular maintenance, excel overdosing and high flow - about 15x volume/hr. 
I think that perhaps we'd have both benefited from a Twinstar, but the jury was still out on them at the time. If I did this type of scape again I'd definitely invest in one (or build a DIY version), it'd cut the work involved down considerably.


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