# What the best filter to have on a planted tank



## weasel (12 Apr 2013)

Just wondering, as the title says, what filters the best to have on a planted tank, i know externally but what type and what media,and what cleaning routines are people doing..


----------



## mafoo (12 Apr 2013)

High flow rate, and then just shove a sponge and lots of biomax/rings in the canister. Don't use carbon unless you've boo booed with over dosing - you'd be paying to take stuff out you paid to put in.


----------



## ceg4048 (12 Apr 2013)

Media type is not all that relevant, but get the biggest, baddest filter you can afford. Get two of them even...it doesnt matter what brand.
Filters in CO2 planted tanks get clogged very quickly. Clean them very often.

Cheers,


----------



## Henry (13 Apr 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> Media type is not all that relevant, but get the biggest, baddest filter you can afford. Get two of them even...it doesnt matter what brand.
> Filters in CO2 planted tanks get clogged very quickly. Clean them very often.
> 
> Cheers,


 
Clogged with what?


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

Is there a reason why type of media is not relevant, I can only presume very low fish load,NH3/4 not being so much of an issue..Not 100% sure how much NH3/4 is created by aquatic plants....


----------



## Alastair (13 Apr 2013)

Organic matter from plants mainly


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

I have APS filters, bit power hungry though, but first in the through flow I have a coarse sponge, then ceramic media after that and a fine pad to finish.

Worth a look at the power consumption of each filter you consider, the extra cash now may pay for itself in saved energy quite quickly.


----------



## thelats1981 (13 Apr 2013)

weasel, think the consensus is that the plants reduce the worry regarding ammonia and nitrite as they love to eat it! I've read that they will 'use' ammonia as food before they use nitrate.


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

So am i right in saying in that respect a good mechanical easy to clean filter is best....ammonia is first choice for plants,as its less work for them to convert..

Lurch would the polishing pad not be best before the ceramic..less chance of clogging..


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

I use the coarse sponge for catching big stuff, polish pad only gets the very fine stuff, it discolours, but doesn't get much crud in it, and there's not much dirt around the ceramics. If that ever changed, I'd shuffle it about. I guess media chambers can be arranged to suit. APS filters don't come with coarse foam, just 3 poly pads, one for each tray. They suggest layering as such:

Bottom tray: pad with plastic balls on top.
Mid tray: pad with ceramics on top
Top tray; pad with carbon on top.

I don't use carbon, it's in a drawer sealed in case I need it. In the top tray I keep spare media in case I need to seed another tank for fry or QT etc.


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

I get it,I'll have to have a look at these filters..I always make my own, never use pressure type filter only sumps, as aerobic bacteria thrives on aeration and you cant give this in a pressure type filter,but obviously its different in planted tanks as less biological is needed..with a sump you can use massive flow rates as long as the return from tank is big enough to cope...


----------



## thelats1981 (13 Apr 2013)

Weasel, are you planning on running CO2? This will probably be the biggest factor in your filter choice for a planted tank...


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

Yeh.. got myself a fire extinguisher from work,i can just swap it when it runs out..just need the valve set as the argon valve i got would need converting,as anyone got a link to a decent set.. im using a flow metre to set up the bubble counter..


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

weasel said:


> I get it,I'll have to have a look at these filters..I always make my own, never use pressure type filter only sumps, as aerobic bacteria thrives on aeration and you cant give this in a pressure type filter,but obviously its different in planted tanks as less biological is needed..with a sump you can use massive flow rates as long as the return from tank is big enough to cope...



Got a salty trying to get me to sump my freshwater 240


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

Did have a salty, to much hassle now,yeh go on sump it,i dare ya, I'll put a few pics of mine up tmora,dead simple to clean filter and do waterchange, 5 minutes jobs done..and i dont get my hands mucky or need a bucket or sink..


----------



## thelats1981 (13 Apr 2013)

If your running CO2 the flow is the key. from what I've read on hear you want to be aiming for 10x turnover. I think this is more important than the type of filter of the media you load it with. dont get bogged down with brands or types of media!


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

weasel said:


> Did have a salty, to much hassle now,yeh go on sump it,i dare ya, I'll put a few pics of mine up tmora,dead simple to clean filter and do waterchange, 5 minutes jobs done..and i dont get my hands mucky or need a bucket or sink..



I'm not against it, but I'm wary of drilling a live tank! Seen a sumped Rio on PFK, got 3 linked tanks in the cupboards. Clever idea, could add 50% to the water volume too, and near double the surface area to boot. I may well cost it up at some point.


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

Lot of people say there weary of drilling the hole. But to be right theres nothing to worry about, all the pressures on what ever the tanks sat on..cost isnt a great deal. Cheap second hand tank and a bit of pipework..

flow rate of 10x is a bit ott in my opinion,depends on size of tank, how its set up,flow coming in position,where co2 is placed,waterchanges,how many exit pipes and other things..
   please its only my opinion though..


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

I agree, flow isn't everything, circulation is where it's at IMO.

I'd be drilling the tank I have as I've not long upgraded in to it! My salty colleague suggested plasticine behind where I'd drill and plenty of fluid to cool the cutting face. I've seen HOB weirs and returns which could be an alternative. I can get tanks made to fit the cupboards quite cheap from Barlow World/ND. Just the price of the return pump really. Not looked in to it. Plus the Mrs Lurch factor. Forgiveness is easier than permission...


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

You got it Lurch coolings the key,build a dam to contain the fluid for cooling as you cut...Is your tank acrylic or glass..Mines acrylic had it made 3 weeks ago..
eres a pic of what ive got going on under the tank..


----------



## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

Fair old system! Have to load that up on the PC later. Tank is glass, Juwel Rio 240.


----------



## weasel (13 Apr 2013)

I thought about glass when i got mine build,but got a good deal on tank i got ..lot lot easier to work with...only draw back is the scratch factor...


----------



## foxfish (28 Apr 2013)

Weasel, there are a few folk who use sumps on planted tanks but they are not very popular for good reason!
With any C02 enriched tank we strive to keep the gas in the tank for as long as possible, the issue with a sump, or at least one installed beneath the tank, is how you get the water into the sump.
Pouring water down the overflow is like opening the top of a fizzy drinks bottle & allowing the C02 to escape.
So yes sumps can be used but you need to consider the amount of flow & bear in mine that you will be useing much more C02 than with a sealed power filter.
However if you want to use your sump there are a few ways to utilise their benefits, keep the flow level down & subsidise the 10 x rule with an additional source,use the auto top up from the mains supply to ease water changes & use a mesh pre filter in the overflow box. keep the internals basic to avoid attracting plant debris
I have my sump fitted at tank level & use a sealed trickle filter.


----------



## weasel (28 Apr 2013)

This is what puzzles me when using pressure filters and Co2..where does the aerobic bacteria get its oxygen thats needed to support a healthy biomass,i understand you will loose a great deal of C02..my flow is 360 ltr/h but as you say is subsidised by additional source...


----------



## foxfish (28 Apr 2013)

As s a general rule planted tanks do not holed a lot of fish & we carry out at least one 50% water change a week so it would seem that super efficient filtration is just not required!
That is not to say good filtration is not required or is a bad thing of course but, we are not dealing with super sensitive marine fish that thrive in super oxygenated water.
I have opted for the very best filtration I can manage without having to pump in huge amounts of gas, however I have also operated very successful tanks with very basic canister filtration & this seems the easy, least hassle & most gas efficient way to go!

I have found that empty sumps coupled with a small sealed trickle tower are fantastically efficiente, I use a fine wire mesh in the overflow to catch most of the debris as a first stage & use a separate 'in sump' pump to just flow two x tank volume over the bio balls.
The sump acts like a settlement chamber & is syphoned off regularly so in fact the only really fine mechanical filtration is in the canister filter that feeds the trickle tower.
I also run several tanks that just have a single bag of bio balls in the sump that are remover regularly & washed out, this also seems to work with the main sump area acting as settlement.


----------



## weasel (28 Apr 2013)

foxfish said:


> As s a general rule planted tanks do not holed a lot of fish & we carry out at least one 50% water change a week so it would seem that super efficient filtration is just not required!
> 
> I understand that its different for planted tanks
> 
> ...


sounds like a good design that works,wouldnt mine seeing some pics of that if you dont mind
I flush my full sump to waste daily as its straight to main drain giving me 11ltr per day waterchange from a 140 tank..a sock catches all the debri from the plants which is swilled out in the sink..


----------



## dw1305 (29 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> This is what puzzles me when using pressure filters and Co2..where does the aerobic bacteria get its oxygen thats needed to support a healthy biomass


It is from the plants themselves (via photosynthesis), but this is what bothers me about canister filters in non-planted situations (even though the owners aren't adding CO2). 

Personally I would always have a wet and dry trickle filter given the choice, largely because of their huge gas exchange surface.

In planted tanks the situation is different, the plants themselves are both removing ammonia and CO2 from the water column, and adding oxygen via photosynthesis, and at the end of the photo-period the water is likely to be 100% saturated with oxygen.

Once photosynthesis stops, the situation changes and the plants become net producers of CO2 and consumers of oxygen. This is why it is safest to turn off the CO2 at night, mainly because of the "Bohr-Root" effect :< Fish Respiration>.

Have a look a this thread <Overnight CO2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

Another point is that I like a sponge pre-filter on all my filters, this has a number of advantages:

It stops faeces and sand getting into the filter
It provides some additional biological filtration,
it is very easy to clean
and it provides an extra browsing surface/ emergency source of rotifers etc (if you squeeze it out) for fry.
I also have 2 filters in all the tanks that are 2' an above, usually a maxijet and sponge or Eheim aquaball, and an (Eheim) external <best filter for shrimp tank? | UK Aquatic Plant Society>. An additional advantage of a pre-filter sponge is that you can aim the bubbles from the maxijet venturi at the Eheim intake sponge and/or vice versa.

I want as much oxygen in my filter as possible, because the microbial conversion of NH3 - NO2 - NO3 is an oxygen intensive process:

NH3 + CO2 + 1.5 O2 → NO2- + CO2 + 0.5 O2 → NO3- 

The ways of increasing oxygenation are basically by having a larger gas exchange surface (in something like a wet and dry trickle filter), increasing flow speed or adding oxygen via photosynthesising plants. Plants also offer the dual advantages of adding more sites for microbial action and removing NH3, NO2 and NO3 from the water.

An external power filter, containing a large volume of ceramic media or sintered glass, and with high water turnover volume (x 10 or more), may still be working at a fraction of its capacity, if the water is rapidly de-oxygenated during its initial contact with the filter media. 

A larger volume filter will add more potential sites for biological filtration, but if the factor that is limiting nitrification is the oxygen supply, they will remain as potential, rather than actual sites. A filter which is extracting a large amount of faeces may become partially clogged, reducing flow and also essentially oxygen, with a “double whammy” as the bacteria degrading the organic materials now inhibit the nitrifying bacteria in the filter by competing with them for oxygen.

That is really why I like a pre-filter, it is easy to clean and it keeps everything other than the ammonia out of the filter.

Biological filtration is all about oxygen, and it was the problems that L number keeper were having with this issue  which prompted me to write "_*Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium*_" <plecoplanet: Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium>. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## weasel (29 Apr 2013)

Sounds good, i have a removable acrylic boxes ive made so i can run it under the tap..These are different materials, either a brush box with ultra fine brushes.. or medium grade sponge.. or fine sponge,these also keep any debris out of my bioside i also have aeration between the media cartridges which scrubs any old bacteria of the media making room for new..co2 is introduced into the sump and sent directly to the tank..
Most people seem to just have a canister filter injected with co2 travelling through the media which to me rendours the aerobic bacteria void, this means hetrotrophic bacteria would be more present in the bio side..ok plants are giving of oxygen,but through the night the bacteria would surely be starved of oxygen..to the ones who dont switch of the co2..


----------

