# Slow and steady



## pepedopolous (24 Dec 2014)

This is my NA 125 litre completely re-done, with new substrate, rocks and plants. It's been running for about 3 weeks now and I've just returned the livestock to it from their smaller temporary tank. They seem to be enjoying the new space. I've set the light intensity very low. The PAR according to a SenEye is about 20 at the substrate. So far this has meant slow growth but no melting.

PC230351 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Right side: -
PC230359 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PC230355 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

FTS: -
PC230343 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Just RGB LEDs: -
PC230348 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Merry Christmas, Veselé Vánoce

P


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## Jose (25 Dec 2014)

Looks very Nice. keep posting please. Also a closeup of fish and plants would be great as well.

Cheers


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## pepedopolous (26 Dec 2014)

Thanks guys. Some history first. I started this aquarium August 2013 and cut my teeth with it on things such as pH profiles and EI dosing. Looking back, just under a year ago, it was as good as I could manage.

Feb 2014, Eheim surface skimmer seems to help a lot
P2233466 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Managed to grow_ Rotala macrandra_ that had melted in its 1-2-Grow! pot: -
P2233478 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Finally I actually had a carpet! (_Micranthemum sp. 'Monte Carlo'_): -
P3223517 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

_Ammania sp. 'Bonsai'_: -
P3233530 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

March 2014, for various reasons it went downhill from here: -
P3233539 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Those various reasons I guess were-

Lack of trimming skills.
Experimenting with higher light.
Maybe warmer spring weather and more sunshine hitting the aquarium.
After experimenting with different needle valves, the regulator started to output a fluctuating working pressure.

Anyway, I was desperate for a fresh start and to use the lessons learned.

Cheers,

P


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## parotet (26 Dec 2014)

Looks nice! It like these rocks, are they lava rock? I'm looking for something similar for future setups which doesn't make my water harder (I only use tap water with GH +24 and KH 10)

Jordi


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## pepedopolous (26 Dec 2014)

Hi, the rocks in the first post are Icelandic lava. I got a set from zooplus (UK version: http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/fish/decoration/natural_decoration/natural_rocks/317311)

The old set up used ADA Unzan stone. Looks nice when not covered in BBA!

P


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## pepedopolous (27 Dec 2014)

So, a post on starting this current setup.


The sand substrate from before had to go. It just was always dirty with algae on the glass. BBA even used to grow on individual sand grains, looking like little spiky fur-balls. Underneath the sand was some old ADA Aqua Soil and some lava rocks. However, this didn't actually help the slope keep it's shape and I was dreading getting it all out. 

It took me a whole Friday evening until the early hours of the next morning. Then I left it till the next day to be sure I really had everything cleaned nicely. Once I was sure every little grain of sand was gone, in went 27 litres of Tropica Aquarium Soil. 

I didn't hang about in putting in the hard scape. Simply lava rock. Sure I could have got creative and used more, gluing it into fancy constructions... but I'm still learning to grow plants and didn't want too much flow obstruction.

PB307381 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


December 3rd. Just planted
PC037397 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Left side with SS outlet, inlet pipe/skimmer
PC037398 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Right side. We have a slope!
PC037404 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Filling up. Tropica soil really didn't dirty the water.
PC037406 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


December 4th, after water change.
PC047408 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Looking at this photo from the second day, even with just 20 PAR, all the plants have grown nicely since then.

Cheers,

P


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## Filip (27 Dec 2014)

Nice tank.


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## pepedopolous (30 Dec 2014)

Update: 4 weeks after planting

Fish have been in for one week now. Had a few quiet post-Christmas days to do a pH profile and look at the fish behaviour. The profile looks OK but the fish spend a lot of time at the surface during the last few hours of CO2 addition, even though the pH seems to be pretty stable at this time.

pH profile 29-12 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

To get the pH readings I leave a pH meter propped on the rear right corner of the aquarium and turn it on every hour. I guess in this spot the CO2 level must be low compared to other places lower down from the surface. I think I'll have to reduce the CO2 bubble count to have healthier happier fish.

pH meter on the right: -
PC290407 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Looks nice from up top.
PC290408 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

_Pogostemon erectus _is slow for a stem plant but seems to be doing OK.
PC290417 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

PC290419 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Thanks for looking,

P


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## Filip (30 Dec 2014)

What ph meter do you use?


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## Greenfinger2 (30 Dec 2014)

Great looking Scape health plants too


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## pepedopolous (30 Dec 2014)

Hi, it's a Voltcraft PHT-02 which you can buy from the Conrad on-line store. It's reliable but it doesn't automatically turn off which means that sometimes I've accidentally let the batteries run out... If I had the chance again I would maybe buy a Hanna and something with a probe that you can place anywhere in the water.

P


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## Edvet (30 Dec 2014)

Looks clean


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## pepedopolous (17 Jan 2015)

Hi guys,

It's been 6 weeks now so far. Still going slow and steady. Not massive growth but no algae to speak of either even though I've increased the light a little and tweaked the CO2 to keep the fish happy. The pH decrease is pretty much exactly 1 unit. The _Tanichthys micagemmae_ still seem to hang around on the surface a lot though.

I think the_ Ludwigia 'Super Red'_ and _Staurogyne repens _are still slowly transitioning to emersed form as I do find quite a few leaves each day stuck to the Koralia or skimmer. For this reason I've pointed the Koralia as far down as it will go, more or less point blank at the middle patch of _Staurogyne_.

Anyway, got a bit trigger happy with the camera earlier so pics below: -


P1170511r by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170514 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170518 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170519 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170520 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170521 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170522 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170523 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170524 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170525 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170526 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170527 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170528 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170529 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170533 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170535 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170536 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170537 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170538 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

P1170539 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Cheers,

P


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## Greenfinger2 (17 Jan 2015)

Hi P, Looking great   The stem plants could do with a trim though


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## pepedopolous (18 Jan 2015)

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi P, Looking great   The stem plants could do with a trim though


Thanks! Slow, steady and lazy! Do you mean just the _Ludwigia_ on the left, or everything bar the _Microsorum_?

P


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## Greenfinger2 (18 Jan 2015)

Hi P , Just the Lud for now


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## pepedopolous (26 Jan 2015)

Slow, steady (and impatient!)!


Why do I punish myself with _Staurogyne repens_ in every set up?! In this tank it is in several different locations and each plant now seems to have lost loads of the lower leaves. I can't seem to turn it around. It can only get worse!

None of the other plant species (e.g. _Micranthemum sp. 'Monte Carlo'), _show any problems. The 'Monte Carlo' continues to spread out, the _Pogostemon erectus _looks great and is getting taller each week. I still have no algae whatsoever on the rocks or plants, and just the tiniest amount of 'stuff' on the glass in the places where I miss with the algae scraper (plastic card!).

For the main group of _Staurogyne_ in the back middle I have the Koralia Nano circulation pump pointing straight at it (though there's a bit of _Microsorum_ in the way).

I have a Eheim 350T filter with minimal media (1050 lph) plus the Koralia at 900 lph. Plenty of surface agitation from a skimmer on the filter inlet. Plus the outlet creates a vortex. CO2 is injected using an UP inline diffuser. For 8 hours the aquarium is lemonade is every corner!

CO2 on: 12:00 pH = 6.8
Lights on: 14:00 pH = 5.8
CO2 off: 20:00 pH = 5.8
Lights off: 22:00
KH = 5
EI ferts (aquariumplantfood.co.uk)
Easycarbo 5ml per day

Even with a 1 pH unit drop, my Vietnamese minnows seem to suffer a bit from acidosis (unless they just are simply enjoying the flow coming out of the outlet)...

For the first few weeks the LED lights produced 20 PAR at the substrate level. I've since increased the light a notch but we're still talking low light here.

As these _Staurogyne_ have been planted for only about 7 weeks in a light-limited aquarium, I guess the problem might simply be that even now, older emersed leaves are being 'sacrificed'. However, it is painful to watch. I'm seriously thinking about increasing the light to speed up whatever is going on!

I can see that the _Staurogyne_ has really deep roots going right down to the very bottom of the aquarium. I guess another option might be a severe trim, but can a plant really grow from just the roots and a bit of stem alone?

P


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## Greenfinger2 (26 Jan 2015)

HI This thread could help
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/carpet-plant-and-mid-ground-plants-melting-kindly-advice.34009/


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## pepedopolous (26 Jan 2015)

Thanks, Greenfinger2!

To be honest, I'm not sure if the problem I have is the classic 'melting'... the _Staurogyne_ still seems to be growing healthy leaves at the top, just the bottom leaves are dropping off. I'll try and post some before/after pics after work tomorrow.

Thanks again,

P


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## parotet (27 Jan 2015)

Hi P

Well, 20 PAR on the substrate is not a lot of light, I would say it is low light... I guess you have a PAR meter so you can know what you are doing and you can try to play a bit harder and try to have at least 40 PAR. I'm saying this because when my Staurogyne grows shaded by other plants it doesn't grow so well. Now I have them in the front of the tank with all the (moderate) light on them. Of course, your CO2 and flow must be perfect... In that sense not sure if 1 ph drop is enough for a so low KH... But your DC will be saying something also which may be interesting to know and the other plants seem to do well.
Of course the best way to do when you have poor growing with this plant is trim it very hard. No need to leave anything on the substrate (there is a Tom Barr video in which he trims S. repens, very instructive). If the root system is well developed and the conditions in your tank good enough, you should have plenty of new and healthy shoots in a few weeks.

Jordi


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## parotet (27 Jan 2015)

Hi P

having a look at your pictures I can see that your filter outflow is pointing slightly downwards and it is not probably creating too much rippling on the water surface. The Koralia although being well positioned to create a nice circular flow, is also quite low IMO to be able to ripple the surface.If you ripple the surface it will be less probable that you asphyxiate your fish even pumping more CO2 (I remember the first time I used CO2 in my high tech I nearly killed all my fish with 1 bps using a very inefficient in-tank diffuser, now I can pump up to 3 bps with an inline diffuser and fish do well). In addition your CO2 levels will much more stable during the light period which is very important. Hope it helps.

Jordi


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## pepedopolous (27 Jan 2015)

parotet said:


> having a look at your pictures I can see that your filter outflow is pointing slightly downwards and it is not probably creating too much rippling on the water surface. The Koralia although being well positioned to create a nice circular flow, is also quite low IMO to be able to ripple the surface



Hi Jordi, thanks for your help!

Your right about the flow pattern. It is so strong leaving the outlet that it erodes the soil in the bottom right corner and the air in the drop checker actually 'wobbles' in the current.
flow by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The Koralia, now pointing down, doesn't ripple the surface so much but I think it is the skimmer that provides a decent amount of rippling and degassing as it acts like a mini overflow...
P1270778 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

It's a never ending chore to remove all the _Staurogyne_ leaves...
P1270775 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

I think I have maximised flow by having minimal filter media (most importantly no floss) and as short as possible lengths of tubing.

PC057425 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P1270786 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

If I didn't have decent degassing/agitation, I wouldn't have such a stable pH when the CO2 is on: -
pH profile by pepedopolous, on Flickr

So, what is the _Staurogyne_ telling me? This pic is about a week old, when I was already a bit concerned about the leaves falling off: -
P1170539 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
The roots go right to the bottom glass.

And now a pic from today. This Stauro is right in the path of the filter outflow in the bottom right corner. Wherever you look the water is carbonated!
P1270758 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Another shot to show the lemonade. CO2 bubbles are collecting under the _Microsorum_ leaves.
P1270755cr by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Facing the filter outlet head on: -
P1270750 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

More Stauro this time on the left hand side: -
P1270768 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P1270767 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The middle patch of _Staurogyne_. It is now possible to see the stems and substrate where before there was simply loads of leaves.
P1270769 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


I haven't changed the drop checker fluid in ages as I check the pH with a meter. The DC never goes blue, it's lime green when the CO2 is on: -
P1270788 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The force of the CO2 when it first comes on drives out the water in the bubble counter within days.
P1270784 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

No leaks here?
P1270785 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The 'Monte Carlo' doesn't seem to care so much for CO2!
P1270789 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


I've had this afternoon to look at the aquarium and the pH right now (18:00) is at 5.79. At 14:00 was about the same (5.82). It as only at about 17:00 that I noticed any fish at the surface. They are all there right now but to be honest I wonder if they are just hungry and also they all love the flow.

I know from bitter experience that when I push the CO2 too high, the Amano shrimps start jumping out. This hasn't happened yet with this scape.

So, I'm thinking I could increase the CO2 a bit more (when I refill the bubble counter!) and also maybe stop the CO2 earlier for the sake of the fish.

At the moment I stop it at 20:00, 2 hours before lights off. Maybe I could stop it 3 or even 4 hours before lights off?

My next task for this evening is to calibrate the pH meter again, do a KH test and get out the PITA Seneye to check the PAR again. I have NO algae and with many people running Aquaskys with 100+ PAR at the substrate, what harm can I do if I double the PAR to say 40?!

Thanks for looking,

P


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## parotet (27 Jan 2015)

Hi P

I think you should change your DC reagent and fill your bubble counter... These are the good indicators of your co2 performance. There are two things that are not normal IMO: the first me is your water blowing out the bubble counter, at least it has never happened to me. And the other is this 1 pH drop, a bit too low for KH 5. Although it is a rule of thumb and I have never had soft water, it looks from what I have read that you should be achieving something more. It is true that all your plants, not very demanding in terms of co2, seems to do well... So good idea to calibrate the pH meter and to check every little detail that can affect your co2. That's the priority IMO.

Regarding the light and your last question... Well my guess is that managing PAR 100 at the substrate level is not easy and needs some experience, not to say having your flow and co2 perfectly executed. But there is a huge difference between AquaSky light levels and your 20 PAR. Telling newbies that it's is much better to work with low lights makes sense, especially in new setups. This is also important because our eyes are very bad judging the amount of light... but if you have a PAR meter and some experience as you have I would try to reach PAR 40 or even 50 and see how it works.

Jordi


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## parotet (27 Jan 2015)

Another thing, eroding your substrate with your outflow sounds not good al all. I would try to solve this. Additionally you mention that you are rippling the surface with the skimmer... Can you do this? To ripple my surface I use a Koralia, a spraybar under the water surface, etc. but I cannot imagine how you do this with a skimmer. A skimmer may swallow your surface film but does it ripple the surface? 
This is my rippling during the day and what I do to aerate my tank every night... Hope it helps.



Jordi


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## pepedopolous (27 Jan 2015)

parotet said:


> Another thing, eroding your substrate with your outflow sounds not good al all. I would try to solve this.


So I've achieved too much flow!



parotet said:


> Additionally you mention that you are rippling the surface with the skimmer... Can you do this?


Yes! The skimmer doesn't agitate the surface by means of water entering the aquarium but the opposite. It draws water into the filter inlet from the surface as well as the normal way from the bottom (you can actually adjust how much comes from the top or bottom).

I can make a video but I assure you that there is rippling. I think it is beneficial regardless as it keeps the surface clean and ensures degassing due to the high surface area to volume ratio of the water entering the skimmer at the top.

People using overflows (often in marine aquariums but Tom Barr uses them too), use them for the same reasons.

I had to take a break from the aquarium tonight to make dinner but I'll do all the things you mentioned in the previous post to make sure I have the correct info.

Thanks again, 


P


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## pepedopolous (24 Apr 2016)

Ahoj! Still plodding on with this aquarium and have just done a re-scape. Maybe I can do a better job of keeping a journal this time round?

I think I'll fill in a bit on the progress of the last scape for perspective. [url=https://flic.kr/p/G8DjaG]why-question-everything-isnt-going-to-solve-anything-demotivational-poster-1273407899 by pepedopolous, on Flickr[/URL]

P


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## pepedopolous (24 Apr 2016)

*3/20/15 *
_Pogostemon erectus_ gone, _Ludwigia_ almost gone, _Stauro_ very unhealthy. Yet no algae? ! ?
P3200234 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P3200237 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P3200235 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


*17/8/2015*
Got rid of Java fern 'Trident', some Stauro has been replaced by some (already very leggy) submersed plants from LFS. Background stem plant is _Hygrophila polysperma_ 'variegated' which I've grown before in low tech conditions...
P8172674 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Should have trimmed this sooner. Alas confidence wasn't high.
P8172677 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Looked alright...
P8172676 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P8172669 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P8172657 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P8172668 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P8162642 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


It was more or less uphill from here...

P


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## pepedopolous (24 Apr 2016)

In October 2015 I got fed up with the _Hygrophila _not pulling it's weight! I took it out and got some new plants: -
_
Blyxa japonica
Rotala sp. 'colorata' 
Rotala macrandra
Alternanthera reineckii
Pogostemon erectus _(again)

These seemed to take ages to get going. I increased the light until BBA started to show up on the rocks and Java fern. However, after re-adjusting the light and spot treating with EasyCarbo, the scape was looking at it's best. Hurrah!
PB212990 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212988 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212985 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212987 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212981 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212992 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212994 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB212995 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
PB283003 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

So the scape enjoyed some good health before some equipment failure scuppered things...

P


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## pepedopolous (24 Apr 2016)

Hey, your tank looks nice! Would be awful if something happened to it...
11988671_10156328787330201_3804392188776170480_n by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## AndreiD (25 Apr 2016)

Hi , did you find out why your stauros are not growing ok ? (I gues its not CO2 because HC grows ok )

What ferts are you using and how much are you dosing in ppm ,macro micro ?

Thanks .


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## pepedopolous (25 Apr 2016)

It wasn't HC, it was _Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' _which is easier_._ I think Stauro is just a hard plant to grow and a kind of 'canary' for CO2 levels. Once it is unhealthy, it can be very hard to bring it back again. 

I generally stuck to standard EI dosing (www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk). I tried halving and doubling the amounts, with and without MgSO4, reduced phosphates, and supplementary potassium dosing (Potassium sulphate solution). However, none of these tweaks seemed to have much effect compared to when I really nailed good CO2 and light.

With the next version of this scape, I'm just dosing potassium at the moment, as there must be loads of ferts already in the (re-used) soil. I have a hunch that unlimited levels of phosphates and nitrates are actually a lot less than is in standard EI solution. Try looking at Dennis Wong's videos on Youtube for a good comparison of 'heavy' VS lean dosing.

P


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## AndreiD (25 Apr 2016)

Hi , thanks for the infos , i tried the same with stauro , doubling and reducing macros , did't work . Are you dosing chelated traces ? If yes how much ppm and how often per week ?

Thanks


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## Tim Harrison (25 Apr 2016)

That's looking super healthy.


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## alto (25 Apr 2016)

Multiple "Likes" for the Impish (Evil?) Cat 

& thanks for getting this journal current  
- looking forward to the new scape!

If growing Staurogyne repens I think that Tropica's article is a worthwhile read


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## pepedopolous (25 Apr 2016)

AndreiD said:


> Hi , thanks for the infos , i tried the same with stauro , doubling and reducing macros , did't work . Are you dosing chelated traces ? If yes how much ppm and how often per week ?
> 
> Thanks


Hi, this tank is now re-scaped and I'm just dosing Potassium sulphate solution. However, before the re-scape I was dosing EI macros and micros on alternate days. 

Friday = 50% water change, macro
Sat = micro
Sun = macro
Mon = micro
Tue = macro
Wed = micro
Thur =  rest

I'm not sure about the exact ppm. I used the EI Starter kit from www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk. On their FAQ it says EI micro is about 0.5ppm Fe. That is if you dose 10ml of their solution per 50l of aquarium water. I tried halving this to no ill effect.

P


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## pepedopolous (25 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> Multiple "Likes" for the Impish (Evil?) Cat
> 
> & thanks for getting this journal current
> - looking forward to the new scape!
> ...


Thanks. I've read that one before. I think it's where I discovered this plant which is now my Achilles heel. I see that it says medium to high light... I think I generally had light levels of low to medium. No algae but unhealthy Stauro


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## pepedopolous (25 Apr 2016)

OK, so bringing things almost to the present day... In December my in-line atomiser cracked (Up Aqua, new type). Just when things were going well! I decided to simply use an in-tank diffuser (Tropica), which works really well in another 60 litre aquarium I have. However, going into the new year it was clear that things were only declining. I was still able to get the same pH decrease (1.2 - 1.3 units) but it took loads more CO2 to do this (50g per day instead of 30g) and the distribution just wasn't as good as with the in-line so all the plants were suffering.

In the end I went back to using an old style Up atomiser that I've had for years. Things picked up but not as good as before and a re-scape was well overdue.

*April 2016* Recovery of sorts
P4091025 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The internal filter was being 'seeded' for a temporary fish home during the re-scape.
P4091015 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Goodbye, my scape. You've been a total PITA at times, but I'm gonna miss you!
P4091005 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4091021 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## pepedopolous (26 Apr 2016)

*Re-scape April 2016*

I saw that black lava rock was available at aquasabi.com, just what I wanted! I sent them an email about what quantity to order for my needs and they sent me this: -
2016-04-04 15.11.01 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Decided to go for it. The fish and shrimp were housed in a 70l plastic container with _Blyxa_ and Java fern for company.

I was inspired by this picture (from the UKAPS Facebook page I think, sorry for stealing it), to use _Glossostigma elatinoides _and _Eleocharis acicularis._
12605425_537034656471312_5949799486075938127_o by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Plant List

*Foreground*
_Glossostigma elatinoides_

*Mid-ground*
_Staurogyne repens _(How could I resist?)
_Microsorum pteropus_ 'Petit' (This is the Java fern I always wanted, but was never in stock)

*Background (left)*
_Eleocharis acicularis_

*Background (right)*
_Pogostemon erectus
_
*Mosses on rocks*
_Fissidens fontanus
Riccardia chamedryfolia_

I decided to chop up the mosses in a blender with a smidgen of yoghurt (I actually used the tiniest amount of Czech sour cream). I did a 6 day dry start just to give the mosses enough time to grab hold of the rocks.

Aquasabi also sent me _Sagittaria subulata_ as a freebie, which I've used in a few nooks.

Used my phone to record the set-up...

I re-used the same Tropica soil (quite full of detritus/mulm after 14 months)
IMG_20160410_222720 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Are these the same rocks I ordered?
IMG_20160412_150758 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Yep!
IMG_20160412_154011 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
IMG_20160412_153954 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Potential...
IMG_20160412_154423 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## rebel (27 Apr 2016)

Like your new plan! Looking forward to it.


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## pepedopolous (27 Apr 2016)

*April 17:* Planting and DSM (6 Days)
I only did 6 days as I didn't think it fair to keep my fish in a plastic box for too long. Plus, I just needed the moss to attach to the rocks before flooding...
P4171027 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171029 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171030 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171031 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171032 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171033 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171034 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4171035 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## pepedopolous (28 Apr 2016)

*Scummy Flooding Experience*: 18th April 2016

The rising water picked up loads of scum so I used the Eheim skimmer to clean it up. A lot of the _Riccardia_ which seemed attached, eventually floated off... not immediately but over the course of the next few days. I've collected these bits and put them in a propagator. I should superglue them properly later. The _Fissidens fontanus_ stayed put. The Java ferns are held in place with JBL plastic clips.

P4181028 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181029 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181032 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181033 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181034 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181038 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4181040 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## pepedopolous (28 Apr 2016)

*April 20th*: Two days since flooding, fish and shrimp added.

P4201044 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4201041 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
P4201045 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


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## pepedopolous (14 May 2016)

Normal service has resumed! 

4 weeks since planting, 3 weeks since flooding.

All plants had been growing well, even the _Staurogyne_. 

But this week, the Stauro has started to lose leaves by the handful!

*Here's how to fail to grow Staurogyne (the EASY plant from TROPICA): -*

# Don't use an internal CO2 diffuser, use an in-line atomiser for superior CO2 distribution.
# Don't have a pH decrease of just 1.0 units. Have a consistently bigger decrease of 1.3 to 1.4 units.
# Keep the KH consistent by adding some coral sand to the filter.
# Check for leaks with your CO2 system by weighing the bottle each week. 
# Don't just aim for the standard 20g of CO2 per day, go for 30g per day!
# Put your drop checker in various places as close to the substrate as possible, where CO2 dissolution is likely to be low. Make sure that it is not just lime green but yellow before the aquarium lights come on.
# Instead of having a life, use a pH meter to check hourly each Sunday to make a pH profile.

# Don't guess about light levels, get a SenEye and then to be really sure, get an actual PAR meter to make sure the PAR is between 40-50 at the substrate.
# Ramp the light intensity slowly up to make sure there really is enough CO2 before the lights are at full intensity.
#6 hour photoperiod (excluding ramp up/down), CO2 on/off 1 hour before lights.

# Remove half your filter media to ensure that you get strong flow, obeying the 10* turnover rule.

# Weekly 50+% water change 
# Daily fertilisation using DIY ferts with recipe recommended by planted aquarium gurus.
# Daily cleaning of glass and any debris around filter inlet.

# If your other plants are growing well, it's a sure sign that your Staurogyne is going to die very soon!

P


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## EdwinK (14 May 2016)

Don't be so pessimistic  Staurogyne is a weird plant really and you'll never know when it decides to lose leaves. So I would go with usual maintenance and it will regrow one day.


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## pepedopolous (14 May 2016)

EdwinK said:


> Don't be so pessimistic  Staurogyne is a weird plant really and you'll never know when it decides to lose leaves. So I would go with usual maintenance and it will regrow one day.



If this continues there will just be bare stems with maybe a pair of leaves at the top. Should I just trim the plants down to the substrate...?

P


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## EdwinK (14 May 2016)

No, just leave it.


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## Tim Harrison (14 May 2016)

Nice scape P, shame about the stauro, I'm sure it'll recover...

It is a weird plant, mine's tucked away in semi-shade in the part of the tank with the least flow and consequently is always covered in a light dusting of sediment. 
It's been constantly uprooted, mistreated and abused but its growing like the clappers.
Meanwhile, the plant that's been better treated and is supposed to guarantee a carpet in no time, mini hair grass, is melting...go figure...

It just goes to show that nature often has different ideas...I tend to try and go with it; quite often mother nature's ideas are better anyway


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## alto (15 May 2016)

pepedopolous said:


> # If your other plants are growing well, it's a sure sign that your Staurogyne is going to die very soon!




I can't grow Staurogyne either, at first it looks grand, then the leaf loss begins ... this time I re-read the Tropica article & just trimmed it back - not to substrate but only a few cm's above - planted some nice disguise plants around it & forgot about it (yes, that many leaves disappeared that I thought it "gone") ... stripped tank down to remove some fish I could not catch any other way & those Staurogyne stems have long deep roots & very nice new leaves (except of course now they are sitting in a bin  )

I really like the new scape


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## pepedopolous (15 May 2016)

Tropica need a new category for their plant range: Easy, Medium, Advanced, and... Weird!

I can't really disguise these plants but I'm gonna leave things exactly as they are. I tried increasing the CO2 by a notch yesterday but the fish were soon gasping. PAR is around 60 at peak, so well below photon torpedo level!


P


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## alto (15 May 2016)

I inter-planted some Bacopa "compact" , really like the color & leaf on this plant, not sure why it doesn't seem to be used more


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## pepedopolous (15 May 2016)

alto said:


> I inter-planted some Bacopa "compact" , really like the color & leaf on this plant, not sure why it doesn't seem to be used more


Nice. I've got that in another aquarium and it takes all sorts of abuse. It even grows amongst moss and then up out of the water.

P


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## rebel (16 May 2016)

EdwinK said:


> Don't be so pessimistic  Staurogyne is a weird plant really and you'll never know when it decides to lose leaves. So I would go with usual maintenance and it will regrow one day.


yep. it can die when it pleases but especially in immature tanks.


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## AndreiD (16 May 2016)

Hi , try to connect the Eheim skim 350 to an electronic timer , run it like 3-4 times per day maximum 3 minutes per period . Set like this should be more than enough to clear your surface scum (if you have any) .

This skimmer is degassing a lot .  I'm using it to degas during the night after photo period is off .

Agree stauro is a weird plant , i had different issues with it . Likes co2 a LOT and try plant is in the shade

Try not to overdose micros , try dosing 0.1 - 0.2 ppm Fe micros 

Good luck


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## pepedopolous (16 May 2016)

Hi,
I have a skimmer on the filter inlet, the Eheim was just to pick up the really bad scum when I flooded the tank.

I agree they do cause CO2 loss but I still get a decent profile and reasonable CO2 usage (~30g per day).

I'm dosing about 0.1 ppm trace mix with Fe. The macros are also leaner than full EI dosing.

Stauro is still deteriorating...

P


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## tim (16 May 2016)

I gave up on staurogyne due to same issues never got it going for more than a month or two, http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Penthorumsedoides(138)/4764 has made an awesome substitute for me seems to be indestructible, I've had it high tech, chucked some in my low tech and a few stems have been trimmed and chucked in an emmersed propagator and so far not a leaf lost.


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## pepedopolous (16 May 2016)

tim said:


> I gave up on staurogyne due to same issues never got it going for more than a month or two, http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/Penthorumsedoides(138)/4764 has made an awesome substitute for me seems to be indestructible, I've had it high tech, chucked some in my low tech and a few stems have been trimmed and chucked in an emmersed propagator and so far not a leaf lost.


Thanks! Had no idea about this plant. Now I can see it's already available at my usual supplier... I really like the look of Staurogyne but I think I've wasted enough time and money on it. At times it has really sucked the joy out of the hobby for me. I trust and respect Tropica but it seems many people have frustrating experiences with Stauro which simply does not fit with a plant labelled 'easy'.

P


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## rebel (17 May 2016)

easy does not go in the same sentence with staurogyne. Maybe a special category should be created "temperamental".  or " are you feeling lucky"


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