# DSICUS WONT EAT. getting skinny.. i need help!!!



## candymancan (7 Jan 2015)

I have 7 discus in my 55g tank.. All about 2-3 one is almost 4 inches..  They all eat.. some picky eaters.. 1 always hides in a cave..  But the one in question is my most expensive fish...  I paid $80 for a Blue Snakeskin 3 1/2 inch discus about 2-3weeks ago...  He refuses to eat..  His head is now sunken in... and im afraid he wont make it and hes extremely beautiful and well expensive as I mentioned..  The Leopard Snakeskin I got with him on the same day is a HUGE pig though..

This guy will grab food in his mouth but spit it back out.. then grab it again and spit it out and repeat it a few times before giving up.   I have tried Tetra Min flakes..  Hikkari freeze dried blood worms, Omega one Freeze dried bloodworms, frozen blood worms, Omega one flakes..   Nothing friggen work.  He ignores flakes all together..  The freeze dried bloodworms I noticed he only goes after the dark color ones. but spits them out..  The frozen blood worms that are red.. he will go after those too but then spit them out..  In fact he looks excited about them but then loses interest...

It seems he like bloodworms sorta but only the darker colored ones but then spits em out and then goes back to his damn corner...  I can tell his buddy the Leopard Snakeskin is worried they always hang out together... and its saddens me that he is getting in this skinny state...  Water Params are perfect and I have recently tried raising the temps to 88f instead of 84-86..  I am also trying prazipro im on day 2 now....

  They don't sell blackworms anywhere locally I was thinking of trying them but I cant afford to wait another week for delivery...  What else can I try ?? Im starting to think he might only eat live foods... but no stores sell live foods where I live...

Please help... $80 is a lot for a fish for me.. and if he dies I cannot afford another one plus hes my best looking discus


----------



## tam (7 Jan 2015)

Live blood worm? If you know anyone with a pond they might have some hanging about in their filter or in the pond itself if the current isn't too strong, if you cant buy them locally. Mosquito larvae would be the other one but it depends what the temps are like where you are.


----------



## candymancan (7 Jan 2015)

its 15f outside 

Im almost considering netting him and taking some food with tweezers and force feeding him somehow..


----------



## X3NiTH (7 Jan 2015)

What about brine shrimp usually available live from LFS, not very nutritious but if it accepts them as food and doesn't spit them out you could go the extra length and fatten them up with spirullina beforehand by dosing the bag water and let the brine shrimp feed on it for a bit, thus making a tastier meal. Cant imagine an endogastric feeding procedure to be much fun to perform on a fish, expensive going to a vet but not as strange a suggestion as it would first appear!

Hope things turn out okay!


----------



## NC10 (7 Jan 2015)

Can you get hold of any beefheart? Where did you buy them? Did you see them feeding? What were they been fed on?


----------



## candymancan (7 Jan 2015)

Problem is there are no local fish stores anymore in Northern Virginia in the US...  There are a few salt water shops but that's it..  Everything else is either petsmart or petco and that's it..  All the LFS have gone out of the business over the last like 5-10 years...

I think Maybe Petland might have live foods.. but I don't think its brine shrimp its those floating pink worm thingys that LFS tend to have in like a 5g tank with an airstone.  What are those ?

I can get frozen beefheart yes


----------



## NC10 (7 Jan 2015)

It's not an LFS you need, it's a butchers


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

well petsmart and petco sell frozen beefheart..  I have tried that stuff a long time ago and the discus didn't like it much but that was before I had a lot of these discus so I guess I can try that again.. 

Do you guys think like earthworms would work lol  I can get live earthworms from like the gas station lol


----------



## Martin in Holland (8 Jan 2015)

cow liver and fried egg is a good basic food for most fish, more so for Discus (beef heart is a myth according to Marc Weiss)


----------



## Iain Sutherland (8 Jan 2015)

Earthworm is a great food for a lot of fish, also the thin red worms in compost heaps if you know someone with one.... would imagine both would be fine for discus???


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

At what temperature do you have them? (get them to 30 degrees celcius for a few days)
Try any live food you can get your hands on. Dim the lights
Forcefeeding is to stressfull i think. If you are in the USA send a mail to DIscus Hans USA and see if you get his food in your state.


----------



## Martin in Holland (8 Jan 2015)

Edvet said:


> At what temperature do you have them? (get them to 30 degrees celcius for a few days)
> Try any live food you can get your hands on. Dim the lights
> Forcefeeding is to stressfull i think. If you are in the USA send a mail to DIscus Hans USA and see if you get his food in your state.


+1


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

Temps were at 84-86f which is about 30c almost..   I put them at 90f right now which is around 32c..  I live an hour from discus hans actually hes in Baltimore MD im In northern VA..

I doubt if I contact him hed actually answer my email or phone call though.  But ill try and see what he has to say but im sure the man is buisy


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

Tell him Dr Ed referred you.


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

Are you serious about the dr ed lol or you playin with me


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

Serious


----------



## bridgey_c (8 Jan 2015)

Im not an experienced discus keeper but I had a couple of wild greens that I couldnt get to feed and its heart breaking to see them slowly dying.

I eventually succeeded by quarantining them in a dimly lit tank, de-worming them and leaving them with live food. It was a bare bottom tank where I could syphon out any debris and I worked hard to keep the water absolutely top notch. You would obviously need a spare tank and a mature filter though. worth a try


----------



## Lindy (8 Jan 2015)

bridgey_c said:


> de-worming them and leaving them with live food.


I agree with this. I had a betta splendens arrive that slowly wasted away. He initially was excited about food but spat everything out. He eventually died. I then received another that started doing this so I wormed with a discus wormer and he is now feeding fine and gaining weight. Not a discus but similar problem?


----------



## allan angus (8 Jan 2015)

i would go on the bidka site and seek help their ! it sounds like worms but i would check with the experts dedicated to discus keeping before starting any treatment


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

Worms don't make a sound as far as i know............
I don't like to give medications without a diagnosis


----------



## allan angus (8 Jan 2015)

Edvet said:


> Worms don't make a sound as far as i know............
> I don't like to give medications without a diagnosis


yep all true thats why i said check with experts before medicating lol


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

Sadly there are many self proclaimed experts without any training and just some lucky shots.


----------



## allan angus (8 Jan 2015)

yes their edvet! thats why i recommended the bidka site which has breeders sellers and peep who have in depth knowledge of discus


----------



## GHNelson (8 Jan 2015)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Earthworm is a great food for a lot of fish, also the thin red worms in compost heaps if you know someone with one.... would imagine both would be fine for discus???


Go to the fishing tackle store and ask for some Brandling worms...these are thinner and smaller than earth worms!


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

hogan53 said:


> Brandling worms


 I thought these were smelly and thus unatractive for fish


----------



## GHNelson (8 Jan 2015)

Don't think so!
These are usually found in compost heaps also know as Tiger worms....if the fish has a big enough mouth Im sure it will eat them!
hoggie


----------



## GHNelson (8 Jan 2015)

Used to use them as a boy when  fishing and the Goldfish loved them!
http://yorkshire-worms.co.uk/product/tiger-worms/
hoggie


----------



## kirk (8 Jan 2015)

Edvet said:


> I thought these were smelly and thus unatractive for fish


  that's why they sell them for fishing.   fish go by smell and movement yum yum.   Tiger worms now your talking,  if it won't eat those there's something seriously wrong that you need to treat. I gave up on disus years ago beautiful fish but if you even further in the same room there's problems with them, well there was 10 years ago. I hope you get the beautiful thing fed soon mate.  I don't want to upset anyone pros or docs but what is to be lost by trying a wormer? I mean how Long has the poor thing got, whislt were all talking about it, it could be the problem and be back to health soon.


----------



## kirk (8 Jan 2015)

I meant fart in the same room not further.


----------



## Lindy (8 Jan 2015)

Edvet said:


> Sadly there are many self proclaimed experts without any training and just some lucky shots.


Wow, that is pretty harsh. Does that mean that if we are not vets we shouldn't comment on any fish health related posts? Fluke Solve is a highly recommended fish/discus wormer and I was just sharing a similar experience.


----------



## kirk (8 Jan 2015)

I was thinking flukes or worms myself lindy. I'm a Dr. Oh wait sorry.......that was spock.:$


----------



## Michael W (8 Jan 2015)

Live foods are usually great with triggering a fussy fish's appetite, I've seen white worms used with success although they can be fatty for the fish in excess. Red Wrigglers are the worms that most fish will readily eat. However, Night crawlers are the ones that secret chemicals which smells bad to the fish. Daphnia should also be appealing to picky eating fish.

I've made a home made mix with Tilapia, Prawns (without shells), Spinach and crushed Garlic for cichlids that I have kept in the past with success, these cichlids include Apistogrammas, Rams, Angelfish and Keyhole Cichlids. 

These are just some food for thought


----------



## Edvet (8 Jan 2015)

ldcgroomer said:


> we shouldn't comment on any fish health related posts


 Sure you can, but my proffesion is plagued with people handing out "well ment advice" without any real knowledge, i come across that about 10 times a day so i might be a bit oversensitive to that. I rarely comment on disease myself, just because i don't have the diagnosis needed to treat with confidence. Just giving a stab in the dark isn't realy sound advice.
Just my 2 €cts


----------



## Lindy (8 Jan 2015)

If he wants a diagnosis he should take his fish to a vet then. Sometimes the process of elimination is all that is left to us 'lay' folk.


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

I called Hans wow im really surprised he picked up i mentioned DR ED he said mmm from holland M Im like fr9m the netherlands based on your profile.

Told him whats going on he said it might be too late if hes looking caved in like that.. but he said to try metrozidiole or however its spelt.. he side it might have something internal and prazi is only good for worms

Now i gatta find where they sell this metro stuff lol..


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

Do you know what they were eating before you bought them?


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

No i dont know. I had to get the Leopard to start eating these bloodworms.. took like a week or so


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

candymancan said:


> No i dont know. I had to get the Leopard to start eating these bloodworms.. took like a week or so



My diagnosis, he doesn't like the food you're giving him, simple, hence my earlier consultation  

Is it possible to get in contact with the seller, see what they were on?

I make my own recipe which contains bog standard tropical flake and they love it. Try feeding them flake alone and they rush to the top, have a go at it, spit it out and continue with what they were doing. Can't stand it.

Just like us, they know what they like and they like what they know


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

Ive tried 2 diff brands of flakes all the diacus ignore them completetly..

Uhg so frustrating discus can be !!!


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

Flakes flake though.


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

ldcgroomer said:


> If he wants a diagnosis he should take his fish to a vet then. Sometimes the process of elimination is all that is left to us 'lay' folk.



Everything hasn't been eliminated though, yet.

I don't want to come across as a complete **ck candyman, and if I'm wrong I sincerely apologise, but it's as though you have seen a pretty fish or a picture of a pretty fish and just bought it. You don't know what they were fed on which means you didn't see them feed, which leads me to believe they were bought online. If they weren't bought online then it's a plain and simple schoolboy error.

Discus are expensive, as you know, would you buy a 200k car without testing it or a million dollar house without viewing it? Add in to the fact this is actually a living thing and you have to put even more effort in.

It's quite clear they're not too keen on flake, so stop trying. Get down to your local petco or whatever it's called and try a few of the frozen foods they have. Beefheart, shrimp etc Ones with garlic are supposed to help wind their appetite up too. Or if you can't get there, just try your local shop and buy a bag of frozen shrimp or fresh liver, beefheart etc Just chop a bit up finely and try them. "Real" food anyway.

As Hans as said, it may be too late now but hopefully not. If you can try them on some real food ASAP you can rule this out one way or another. You wouldn't start dosing your kid up on medication if they didn't like broccoli would you


----------



## X3NiTH (8 Jan 2015)

Metronidazole is probably what he said, it's an antibiotic that will treat anaerobic bacteria and protozoal infections from mouth to anus internally and externally.


----------



## candymancan (8 Jan 2015)

Yea im trying to see who sells it but no one does aparently its by prescription only...

Thr discus like dark foods i noticed.. he ignore light color food.. goes after dark red and blacks.. not kidding.. Im trying to figure out what kind of food is a black color.. Im betting he might eat that.


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

candymancan said:


> Yea im trying to see who sells it but no one does aparently its by prescription only...
> 
> Thr discus like dark foods i noticed.. he ignore light color food.. goes after dark red and blacks.. not kidding.. Im trying to figure out what kind of food is a black color.. Im betting he might eat that.



Beefheart is very dark red, as is liver.


----------



## Lindy (8 Jan 2015)

Can you not go to the local vet?


----------



## NC10 (8 Jan 2015)

This is the last I'll say and I wish you all the luck in getting them back on track mate, but the person who sold them to you is obviously a breeder, experienced or not I've no idea, but the general way to raise discus up to a sellable level ASAP is big daily water changes and some sort of beefheart recipe. Dark reds/blacks etc etc


----------



## candymancan (9 Jan 2015)

I have no money im unemployed cant go to a  vet for a prescription or to pay for a fish.. thatd cost money I don't have..   I was reading up on discus food and it seems when they were making flakes and food for discus one company noted discus tend to go after red food..  So ima go to the local grocery store and get some beefheart and stuff or maybe get the frozen beef heart and see if he eats that...  Hell maybe ill get a black food color and dye my food !!

For now.. I netted him.. held his gills and force fed him..  he spit 2-3 of the pieces of soaked freeze dried blood worms but I managed to get like 3 pieces to where he didn't spit them out..  Obviously hes hiding now.. but whatever.. hide and pout all you want.. hes to skinny.. so I might as well try drastic measures.

Im just buy from discus hans... once I get a Job if this guy dies... im down $80 and im kinda pissed... I didn't realize discus hans was only an hour drive from me till I looked him up.


----------



## alto (9 Jan 2015)

candymancan said:


> Yea im trying to see who sells it but no one does aparently its by prescription only...
> 
> Thr discus like dark foods i noticed.. he ignore light color food.. goes after dark red and blacks.. not kidding.. Im trying to figure out what kind of food is a black color.. Im betting he might eat that.




Seachem offers some decent grade metronidazole, call them up & ask for help sourcing fastest/cheapest ...
You'll want a hospital tank as it will be $$ to treat in a large tank, use a bath technique to get fish "feeling better", then you can switch over to metronidazole-soaked foods to more effectively treat fish.

Your fish is exhibiting classic signs of internal parasites (response to food, tasting/spitting etc) but it's quite possible that there is considerable intestinal damage (& more, depending on type of parasite) re your description, recovery will be slow (or even limited).
The sad reality is that it is rarely cost effective to treat single fish, and fish that are in advanced stages of disease don't always recover fully.

If you can source it, I'd treat with levamisole rather than metronidazole, you might contact Subquaria (they also have some treatment information on their website) ... LOL still has this article (it's decent though I'd personally avoid using most of the cattle/sheep versions re additional ingredients, especially if you're unable to treat the fish in isolation).


----------



## candymancan (9 Jan 2015)

levamisole never heard of that stuff.  I do have fenbendazole..  Its a canine dewormer I used it once before for a betta.. would that work ? I heard you had to get it inside him though like make him ingest it


----------



## alto (9 Jan 2015)

You can try fenbendazole if you like ... depending on fish size & your dexterity, consider force feeding with a syringe system (if you hunt around, you may still be able to find detailed steps on this ...  try discus sites, then goldfish sites)
Fenbendazole/Panacur has different efficacies than levamisol, but you can certainly explore options.
When using meds/chemicals that have not been specifically manufactured for use with fish, beware of "contaminants" which may be toxic to fish & biofilters.

If you're serious about treating fish, it's well worth your time to dig out the old EDIS articles - unfortunately site changes have resulted in broken links, you can still find the titles on the (edis) recommended reading lists, then search out alternate sites which still host versions of these articles ...
eg, Bath Treatment for Sick Fish

IFAS Extension Publications
You'll need to scroll through for the fish related articles.

Once you have some basics, you might further search for updated articles, also check if your local library has any suitable books, check for local colleges etc that may offer Fisheries related education (you may find a knowledge & chemicals source).

ETA in general, fish that are picky eaters or exhibiting stress behaviors are ill to varying degrees, I'd be using medicated food for all your fish for the next 5-7 days & daily water changes as this is one of the best "medications" we can provide.
As others have mentioned, if you've only had this fish for a couple weeks, it was already ill when you purchased it (or possibly had been ill, treated & then the stresses of transport/new tank etc triggered the current situation).

If you do feed beefheart, realize that this is a "dirty" food, so tank maintenance re water quality is important.


----------



## critch (9 Jan 2015)

Clean daily water changes,
Would be the way to go to start with,
If you have recently added a new discus to an existing discus tank, there is a chance of something called cross contamination,
Best thing is get over to Bidka, asap.

When I want advice on plants in my tank, I ask on here,
When I want advice on My discus, I refer to Bidka,


----------



## kirk (9 Jan 2015)

Edvet said:


> Sure you can, but my proffesion is plagued with people handing out "well ment advice" without any real knowledge, i come across that about 10 times a day so i might be a bit oversensitive to that. I rarely comment on disease myself, just because i don't have the diagnosis needed to treat with confidence. Just giving a stab in the dark isn't realy sound advice.
> Just my 2 €cts


why not my gp has a stab in the dark. It also say practice above his door   for example I had flu, then I had pancritis, the a severe case of stomach flu. When I'd told him i had weils, guess what after 9 days of test's proding endless blood test scans, and a lumber puncher.  They agreed I had weils, so some how I new more than the doctors lol.


----------



## candymancan (9 Jan 2015)

Ok guys turns out the only real local fish stoee.. ma8nly salt water.. has pretty much every kind of medications of product from hikkari seachem and other brands.. He had vials of the seachem metrozindole.. I bought two of the 5 gram bottle for 7$ each.. Says itll treat between 200-400 gall9ns of water depending on how much you use..

I plan to make a food paste out of this and force feed the discus in question some of it to get it in his gut.

Do you think two those bottles were enough for my 50g tank or should i get more ?? 200-400g means i can only use it for about 8 days total because i change the water everyday i have to redose.  Im also like 1/3 of prazipro so i have about 3 days left of that stuff.. Can i mix both of these meds ? Should i get another bottle ? All the guy had were the huge ass 35$ bottles which would probly last me like 5 years lol


----------



## alto (10 Jan 2015)

Don't mix meds - until you're truly desperate & then it's more about feeling you've tried it all ... meds are stressful to fish, if you toss something in "just because", the added stress can be what loses you your fish (read about fish & stress, basically stress depresses their immune system).
I'd do a large water change (tonight), then carbon overnight to remove the prazi-pro.
Then start dosing with the Metro in the morning - don't forget to pull the carbon!

This lovely old article is still around -
 see dosing table at end

SYMPTOM-BASED TREATMENT OF COMMON DISCUS DISEASES
(July 1998 Version)
Dionigi Maladorno

It's important to pre-dissolve the metro before adding to the tank, use as large a volume (of water) as needed, then slowly add to tank into the filter flow so as not to hit any fish with a concentrated dose.
You can do larger water changes between doses, 20% is the minimum that is recommended.
Change the water & re-dose daily if you like, metronidazole is stable under aquarium conditions so you can use the alternate treatment scheme.

You can also start feeding medicated food at the same time as the "bath" treatment: dissolve metro in the minimum amount of water, then soak food etc - it's important to choose a food that your fish like, the metro can give it an "off" taste.
The Discus forums will usually have detailed instructions/options.

Be careful with force-feeding, read some instructions on handling so as to minimize scale/skin damage, it also easy to cause internal trauma.


----------



## candymancan (10 Jan 2015)

Well Im desperate.. the discus is skinny as hell man his bones are poping out.. he still swims with the packs though and doesn't darken which is weird..   I drained the water down to 90% and I made a paste with the metro using flakes and water and I bought a little tiny force feeding turkey baster thing the fish store was selling and I force fed the discus as best as I could with the thing pushing the food in him he seemed to spit most of it out through his gills when I let him in the water but that's ok.. if only a little bit got in there that's ok... And I added around 250mg per 10g of metro in the tank.  And 2 teespoons of prazi..  Im going to let this sit for 2 days then drain about 60% water and add more metro but ill stop with the prazi because the next day 2 days with prazi will be a full week so ill stop with the prazi. 


I have noticed though tonight hes swimming around the tank and pecking on the bottom of the gravel and on the plants hes looking for food... which is a very positive sign !!!!..


----------



## alto (10 Jan 2015)

Metronidazole dosing



> Use at 250 mg/10 gallons of water or 7 mg/liter.
> Three administrations every other day, with a 20% water change before each dose is given.
> Pre-dissolve the compound in a cup of aquarium water, and then pour it in the aquarium.


----------



## candymancan (10 Jan 2015)

Well the seachem bottle says 250mg per 10-20 gallons every 2 days.

I should correct what I said though I did 250mg per 10 gallons in my 50g tank.. So 2 of those tiny scoops per 10g. and I force fed him a paste I made 1 tablespoon of paste per 1 scoop of metro..  He spots most of it out but im sure some got in his belly.. Hes already looking for food in the tank now ive noticed


----------



## candymancan (13 Jan 2015)

well on day 4 of Metro now, he still isn't eating..  Hes soo skinny omg its like looking at a skeleton.. Like those Poor people in WW2 from Aushwitz or something..  He is still swimming around the tank though....  I've been trying to force feed him for 2-3 days now 2 times a day I can get a small tube in his mouth as far as it can go before I hit an obstructions. the tube goes to about where his eyes are...  And I have been squirting mixtures of food and metro..  but anytime I do it seems to just come out of his gills and he spits it out when I release him..

I hope at least a little goes to his belly but I haven't see him poop, of course I don't watch him 24/7 but still..  It has now been 22 days since he hasn't eatin....  I think he might not have much time left... ...  Hes such a beautiful fish too..

Im debating on removing him from the group into a separate tank like my 30g tank or something, and hope maybe if hes by himself that he will be able to play with food more..  Often times when I feed the discus he might be a tad curious of food.. but then another discus will come by and chase him which I know is normal but with his situation I wonder if it isn't helping..  I did this to a blue turquoise of mine to get him to start eating and it did work..

look at his colorations


----------



## Michael W (13 Jan 2015)

To be honest I'd stay away from force feeding even if it is a desperate measure to get him to eat. For one you can cause internal damage very easily from force feeding therefore doing more harm than good. Secondly, the handling of fish can potentially do damage to the slime coat which is a defense mechanism, a barrier which may make the fish more prone to diseases.

I would suggest quarantining the fish in case the spread of a pathogen, don't follow advises about  quarantining fish for x amount of days, do it until the fish has recovered and even then observe some more before placing the fish back into the main tank. Since discus like the higher end in terms of temperature, it is also wise to put an air stone for added oxygen especially for sick fish. A make shift HM Filter or a sponge filter can provide both mechanical filtration and oxygen for a very cheap cost.


----------

