# Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**



## Stickleback (7 May 2012)

Hi Everyone.

I would really appreciate some input in to this little project.

I have just moved out to Vietnam. I am setting up a planted tank at work and I have a brilliant spot for it on my balcony. I was just wondering what the consensus is on outdoor aquariums and their viability. 

I will provide the details as simply as possible below.

The Plan

Low tech tank using James planted tank all in one solution (no CO2 or liquid carbon added).
Borneo Wild or Oliver Knott substrate.
No direct sunlight but lots of indirect light for 12 hours a day year round. No supplemental light.
Ambient temperature about 33C daytime 24C at night (no heating or cooling used)
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank.
The roof would prevent rain getting in to or on the tank.
Dimensions L140 X W80 X H60cm, open top.
Will be very heavily planted with lots of plants growing emersed too.
Will be averagely stocked with fish.

Do you think it would work or would it become and algae and mosquito farm?

Any pitfalls you can point out would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Stickleback.


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## ghostsword (7 May 2012)

*Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Without co2 you will be in trouble. 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## foxfish (7 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

I guesse trying it out is the best way to find out!
I can imagine algae on the glass would be the main issue & perhaps overheating too?
How about a mini pond?


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## Stickleback (7 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Without co2 you will be in trouble.



Probably true, but with CO2 I would also be in trouble because of the inconsistency of the light and the long daylight hours right?


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## Gill (7 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

An Outdoor tank can work great if done right. 
I would not worry about it becoming a Mozzy farm, as fish would keep the numbers at bay. And a good algae crew will help with controlling that issue. Outdoor tanks can look great, I loved my Planted tank in the consevatory.
My youngest brother spent most of last year in Thailand/Vietnam(Muay Thai Tournament/training) and Loved it over there, so congrats on making the move.


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## LancsRick (7 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

MIght be worth establishing it indoors so that when you move it outside it's already populated with mozzy and algae eating crew? Sounds interesting though


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## hinch (7 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

33c is too hot for most fish even asian/local fish. you may have to fit some form of cooling but then again you may not the best way to monitor it for a week or so before stocking.

also be cautious that doing a water change with no active heating don't put pure cold water in as it'll take too long to warm back up you'll have to use water thats fairly close to the actual aquarium temperature


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## Morgan Freeman (9 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

What's the year round climate?

Monsoon season should take care of your water changes!


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## Kristoph91 (9 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Doesn't rainwater naturally contain carbon dioxide anyway ? Or is this just me being stupid ?


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## tapscrew (10 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

A couple of months ago there was an article in PFK of a bloke who has created a massive outdoor tropical tank outside in the uk. icant remember if it was planted but i dont see why it shouldnt be possible, i guess you will have to fiddle around and experiment to get the balence right regarding light, ferts etc but why not, many of the plants we grow in our tanks come from such an environment dont they


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## a1Matt (11 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

other than finding livestock that does not mind the high temps i can not see how this differs from other low tech naturally lit planted tanks. I have had successful unlit planted tanks. Was interesting to see the growth rates change with the seasons/sunlight.

Having seen, and been very impressed with, your last tank in London i have no doubt you will come up with something quite special


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## a1Matt (11 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Without co2 you will be in trouble.
> 
> 
> ___________________________
> ...


why?


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## sWozzAres (11 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Good luck with this.   It sounds a real challenge and I would be interested in seeing how it goes - maybe you should start a journal?



			
				Stickleback said:
			
		

> The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
> Fast flow within tank.



I wouldn't go for fast flow. There is a 10x turnover "rule" but thats for mixing and distribution of ferts/co2 - it doesn't mean have fast flow. You want maximum turnover with as little flow as possible while ensuring good distribution. Algae love flow, especially hairy algae. Most algae come from rivers and flow is one of ways it can determine the season and adjust it's behaviour accordingly. Fast flow is usually associated with spring time so the algae gets ready for summer where growth will be best. It also forces GDA onto the glass where it sticks, and provides an ideal location on the glass for GSA to germinate.


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## Stickleback (13 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Thanks for all the replies and advice, will take it all on board.

So I have decided to go ahead and do it. The tank is being made now. I will definitely start a journal.

I think the fish should be O.K. all the aquarium shops here open out on to the street and are definitely not cooled so as long as I take fish from there then should be O.K. It is a 650 litre tank so would I be right in thinking that the temperature would not fluctuate too much from day to night? The average temperature over 24 hours would be 28.5.

I am waiting for a new camera (two guys with machetes kindly relieved me of all my camera gear in Madagascar) when I get it I will put up some video of the planted tank shops in Saigon. You will be amazed, it is a mainstream pass time here.



			
				sWozzAres said:
			
		

> Stickleback said:
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That's interesting I had not heard that before. It is also annoying because I like fast flow for aesthetic reasons. Will just have to see what happens I guess.

What do you think about 3 x turnover with the filters for a low tech tank?

Many thanks

S


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## foxfish (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

650lt is a big tank   
What will be the dimensions?


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				Stickleback said:
			
		

> sWozzAres said:
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And it's not really true either. The 10X rule has little to do with "mixing of ferts" because the distribution of nutrient ions within the water column occurs as a function of ionic and osmotic forces. In our tanks it's also not a good policy to think about flow in terms of "that algae love flow". This will undo a lot of progress because it's a misinterpretation of the forces which are at work. 

The 10X rule is a general rule of thumb which applies primarily to CO2 enriched tanks. The goal of the turnover is to move a mass of water across the leaf in order to reduce the thickness of the boundary layer, which is an area of stagnant and slow moving water situated above the leaf surface. The thickness of this layer presents an obstacle to the movement of CO2 and nutrients into the tissue membrane. CO2 is 10,000X less soluble in water than it is in air so that even nanometers of thickness differences of the layer increases the resistance to CO2 uptake exponentially. When the boundary layer is thick then the only areas of the leaf surface that have good contact with CO2is at the leaf edge where the thickness is near zero. Further along the leaf as the BL thickness increases, photosynthetic yield falls off rapidly. As the speed of the water increases along the leaf, the BL thickness decreases, but beyond some maximum speed, other hydrodynamic forces change the nature of the BL. It becomes turbulent, presents an even bigger obstacle to CO2 absorption due to chaotic pressure fluctuations, and this degrades the performance of the leaf. 

So there is a target range of velocity across the leaf, below which the BL thickness presents too much of an obstacle, and above which the flow becomes turbulent, which presents an adverse pressure obstacle for the CO2. The turbulence causes instability of CO2 availability and that's one of the factors that triggers BBA. That's why you don't want to pummel the plant leaves with high velocity flow, but you just want to stay within the target range, normally indicated by the leafe swaying in the wind. If the leaves flutter or move violently then this typically is an indication of turbulent flow which initiates pressure fluctuations on the leaf surface and that's why they flutter.

In a non-CO2 tank however, the situation is very different because the rate of photosynthesis is much slower, so we don't need to force feed the CO2 or rely on tricks to improve the CO2 uptake rate. Therefore, we don't really "need" high flow rates, but, if we are in the same target range of "speed across the leaf" then this works out just as well. Fluttering and turbulent flow also have a detrimental effect.

Your target turnover of 3X will work fine within this non-CO2 enriched regime. The only thing you have to worry about in this tank is to avoid excessive PAR which can come from any direction, so you might want to think about covering the sides as well as the background, at least in the beginning.

Cheers,


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## sWozzAres (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> In our tanks it's also not a good policy to think about flow in terms of "that algae love flow". This will undo a lot of progress because it's a misinterpretation of the forces which are at work.


Actually if you balance your "plant perspective" with an "algae perspective" you might finally be able to solve your algae on the glass issues


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Err..yeah, that sounds like it might be a really good idea...if I had any algae on my glass....If, some day, in the future, when CO2 and nutrients are outlawed (see Demolition Man featuring Sly Stallone) which then causes me to get algae on glass, then I might have to think about adopting this new perspective. In the meantime it will suffice to maintain a "keep-your-plants-max-healthy" perspective because that's why I have this hobby, i.e., to grow pretty plants, not to think about algae.  

Cheers,


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## Stickleback (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Thanks CEG that's great info. So light is going to be my number one issue I guess. Unfortunately a large branch came down a couple of days ago, from a nearby shading tree, further exacerbating the problem.

The tank will stand free from the walls so I am setting myself a challenge. The plan is to grow thick plants around the three sides of the tank that receive most light. I plan to have have many emersed plants growing from the emerged wood but with roots trailing in to the tank along with many floating plants in the tank. The Vietnamese climate is very fertile so hopefully all the emersed plants should grow strong helping to balance the ecosystem and shade the tank.



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> 650lt is a big tank
> What will be the dimensions?



L140 W80 H60cm. She's gonna be a beauty.   

Here are some pics from a wood supplier out here.


















































Got wood?


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## dw1305 (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Hi all,


> Got wood?


That is serious drift wood porn.

cheers Darrel


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## Stickleback (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > Got wood?
> ...



Yeah, I'm really in to asian hardscape.


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## MisterB (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				Stickleback said:
			
		

> dw1305 said:
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lol, your not wrong, more than you can shake a stick at


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## sWozzAres (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> ...In the meantime it will suffice to maintain a "keep-your-plants-max-healthy" perspective because that's why I have this hobby, i.e., to grow pretty plants, not to think about algae.
> 
> Cheers,


It's about being open minded. Your obviously an intelligent guy, helpful, insightful, knowledgable and once you get past your obnoxious alter ego then your one of the best resources on the net for growing aquatic plants    It's a shame that your won't turn your attention to algae, I don't get why your so opposed to it, seems right up your street, plants after all ARE algae albeit drier algae. If your not interested then at least let other people discuss the topic without trying to impose your limited view on them, scaring them off limits the UKAPS community and we all suffer from lack of interaction/knowledge/viewpoints and experience.



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> In our tanks it's also not a good policy to think about flow in terms of "that algae love flow". This will undo a lot of progress because it's a misinterpretation of the forces which are at work.



This makes no sense, progress is made through increased knowledge and that includes algae. "Focus on plants" is great advice especially for beginners but it only gets you so far and also gets you to places you don't need to go (yellow DC springs to mind). Plants and algae are two sides of the same coin, ignoring algae limits progress.


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## Kristoph91 (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

WOW that wood is sooo nice.


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## Ady34 (15 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

i think you may struggle to find a piece you like!!!???


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## ghostsword (15 May 2012)

*Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
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Unlimited light, no ferts and no co2 and no plants will grow on it, unless they are floating or emersed. Algae soup.

I do have a couple of tanks on the garden, so I have tried it out. 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## ghostsword (15 May 2012)

*Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
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Unlimited light, no ferts and no co2 and no plants will grow on it, unless they are floating or emersed. Algae soup.

I do have a couple of tanks on the garden, so I have tried it out. 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## Stickleback (16 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> a1Matt said:
> 
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Hi Luis

I never said no ferts. It will be well fertilised, but no CO2 or liquid carbon.

I do see where you are coming from, there is a dichotomy in the planted tank world. However I think your (assumed) prognosis that I should go down the CO2 route is wrong. Many people have had great success with low tech naturally lit planted tanks receiving direct sunlight (myself included, see tank in signature). I have never heard of anyone having any success with a sunlight lit co2 tank, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I don't have the technical expertise that some here have but I do have some practical experience and I have spent hours reading forums and articles. In my opinion, although there is no consistent method like Estimative Index, there are a series of techniques that yield interesting results for low tech naturally lit tanks.

My tank will hopefully be the antithesis of the high tech tank. It will be very low wattage, natural, simple and low maintenance (yeah right  ).  Personally I like a bit of algae in a tank, it is in keeping with the natural look.

R


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## dw1305 (16 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Hi all,


> Many people have had great success with low tech naturally lit planted tanks receiving direct sunlight (myself included, see tank in signature).


 I've got some of these in the glasshouse, they are plastic storage containers, rather than tanks, and the water becomes warm enough to cook any fish etc., but once they have a reasonable plant load they tend to maintain themselves without becoming algae covered, although they will always have some "green (Chlorophyta) filamentous algae". These containers receive natural light, they don't have any water movement or added CO2, and fertilisers are added in a very _ad hoc_ manner.


> Personally I like a bit of algae in a tank, it is in keeping with the natural look.


So do I it is entirely natural and in a low maintenance situation inevitable, particularly with the Chlorophyta, because they have the same metabolic pathways and photosynthetic pigments as all the higher plant groups, and are basal to the "Chloroplastida/Viridiplantae" clade. If conditions are suitable for "plants", they are suitable for the Green algae.


> _e.g. Viridiplantae, Chlorobionta, or simply Plantae, the latter expanding the traditional Plant Kingdom to include the green algae. Adl et al., who produced a classification for all eukaryotes in 2005, introduced the name Chloroplastida for this group, reflecting the group having primary chloroplasts with green chlorophyll_.


Adl, Sina M.; et al. (2005), "The New Higher Level Classification of Eukaryotes with Emphasis on the Taxonomy of Protists", Journal of Eukaryotic Microbiology *52*:5 pp399-451. 


> _The green lineage (Viridiplantae) comprises the green algae and their descendants the land plants, and is one of the major groups of oxygenic photosynthetic eukaryotes. Current hypotheses posit the early divergence of two discrete clades from an ancestral green flagellate. One clade, the Chlorophyta, comprises the early diverging prasinophytes, which gave rise to the core chlorophytes. The other clade, the Streptophyta, includes the charophyte green algae from which the land plants evolved_.






And I think they are often beautiful in their own right.



Images from "Phylogeny and molecular evolution of the green algae" <http://users.ugent.be/~fleliaer/publications/crps_2011_html/evolution_green_algae.htm>

cheers Darrel


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## niru (16 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> And it's not really true either. The 10X rule has little to do with "mixing of ferts" because the distribution of nutrient ions within the water column occurs as a function of ionic and osmotic forces.



Hi Clive

I guess the above is not exactly true per say. Added flow causes turbulent mixing which happens over larger length scales while the ionic/osmotic diffusion occurs on molecular lengthscales. As a standard example, perfume in one corner of the room will take ages (millions of years) for mixing thoroughly throughout the room if only the molecular level diffusive forces were at work. What shortens the time is occasional flow, whiff of breeze that physically transports these molecules from A to B. Then on diffusion takes over once again. So you do need flow for efficient mixing. 

Moreover in the tank, water surface tension at leaf boundaries boundaries would make it difficult (time consuming) for purely osmotic/ionic exchange to occur efficiently. There too flow is of help..

Just my thoughts...

-niru


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## sr20det (16 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

Looking forward to seeing this, nice big tank


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## Stickleback (29 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. Possible?*

I have just been in to see my tank for the first time at the shop. Massive. 

Just a question for anyone who has kindly bothered to read this far. What fert routine would you go for in this scenario? Here's a reminder of the setup details:

Low tech (no CO2 or liquid carbon added).
Borneo Wild or Oliver Knott substrate.
No direct sunlight but lots of indirect light for 12 hours a day year round. No supplemental light.
Ambient temperature about 33C daytime 24C at night (no heating or cooling used)
The filters I have would only provide 3x turnover per hour.
Fast flow within tank (provided by powerhead).
The roof would prevent rain getting in to or on the tank.
Dimensions L140 X W80 X H60cm, open top.
Will be very heavily planted with lots of plants growing emersed too.
Will be averagely stocked with fish.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Will post a pic soon.

S


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## dw1305 (30 May 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible?*

Hi all,


> Low tech (no CO2 or liquid carbon added).
> Borneo Wild or Oliver Knott substrate.
> No direct sunlight but lots of indirect light for 12 hours a day year round. No supplemental light.
> Ambient temperature about 33C daytime 24C at night (no heating or cooling used)
> ...


I think this should work just fine.

cheers Darrel


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## Stickleback (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible?*

Here she is...


Just working on the scape now.


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## tim (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

very nice hardscape dont think u could ask for a better background either looking forward to this


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## BigTom (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

I suspect this will be fantastic. Very jealous of your verandah!


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## Tim Harrison (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**



> Just a question for anyone who has kindly bothered to read this far. What fert routine would you go for in this scenario?



Typically, the weekly dose I use is around one fifth of that recommended for high-energy tanks. The dose is small enough that ready made liquid nutrient formulations like TNC Complete are economical for me to use. 

But you can also use dry salts. The standard regime, for say a 20 gallon low energy tank, is to dose once every week or two with the following; 1/4 teaspoon of GH booster, plus 1/8 and 1/32 of a teaspoon of KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and KH2PO4 (monopotassium phosphate) respectively. The ratios can be scaled up or down to suit any size of tank. This relatively low dosing regime also means that regular water changes are not needed. Instead simply missing a dose every so often, about once a month or two will suffice. 

Check out Tom's article on non-CO2 methods in the BarrReport  http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.ph ... O2-methods.


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## Kristoph91 (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

What a lovely backdrop... 

Who needs tank backgrounds eh!

Great hardscape too  Looking forward to this


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## Alastair (13 Jul 2012)

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. Love the hardscape 


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## ghostsword (14 Jul 2012)

BigTom said:
			
		

> I suspect this will be fantastic. Very jealous of your verandah!




It has all the halmarks of an epic tank!! 

I so want one of these!! 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## ghostsword (14 Jul 2012)

About ferts..  lots of it and would also do enough water changes.. Why not add co2, even just a bit? 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## Stickleback (15 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> > Just a question for anyone who has kindly bothered to read this far. What fert routine would you go for in this scenario?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Great thanks for that Troi.

Amazingly I have managed to source Sphagnum moss peat in Vietnam (Love google translate) so I will hopefully be following your technique fairly closely. 

Thanks everyone else for the kind comments. Will update more soon.


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## Stickleback (17 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Hi

This is specifically a question for Troi, but I would also be very interested in anyone else's opinion.

The Sphagnum moss peat didn't quite arrive as expected.

So I have a limited and imperfect set of ingredients for my substrate. They consist of the following.

Borneo Wild Aquarium Plant Substrate
Sterilized loam.
Soil from a Flower bed.
The (supposedly Sphagnum moss peat) soil detailed below.

In the absence of any other advice I will probably just chuck 25% of each in, cap it with gravel and hope for the best.

What do you reckon?

Here is the google translate page of the (supposedly Sphagnum peat) soil contents.



> Micro-organic fertilizer Gianh River
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> ...


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## Tim Harrison (17 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Needless to say I am not at all familiar with this product so I don't really have a scooby doo. But reading the ingredients it appears more like an fertilized organic mulch rather than moss peat. Unless you know better I'd be wary of using it in an aquarium.

Perhaps Darrel memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=484 or Clive memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=36 could offer you the benefit of their considerable wisdom.

Your substrate mix ratios sound fine. I tend to favor more peat - about 50% or more overall - since as it decomposes it gives off CO2. But equally, you can do without, it's not essential. Though again I am not familiar with Borneo Wild Aquarium Plant Substrate either, but it sounds fine.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


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## dw1305 (17 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Hi all,


> But reading the ingredients it appears more like an fertilized organic mulch rather than moss peat. Unless you know better I'd be wary of using it in an aquarium.
> 
> Perhaps Darrel  or Clive could offer you the benefit of their considerable wisdom.


No, none the wiser, but definitely sounds like Troi is on the right track. I'd be tempted to try a good handful of sterilized loam (or soil from a flower-bed), and what-ever dead leaves you can find locally. I'd just place them in a layer and pour a sand capping over them. I do something similar, although as I want a fairly nutrient poor substrate I use 90% sand and about 5% each clay and leaf litter.

I don't think it is an exact science. 

Your best hope for some sphagnum would be a specialist orchid nursery <http://lcnursery.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/sphagnum-moss-sebagai-media-tanam-anggrek/>

cheers Darrel


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## Alastair (17 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Does the Borneo wild substrate need capping? I thought its similar to columbo, ebi etc so shouldn't need capping mate. 


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## Stickleback (18 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Great, thanks for help guys.

So I think I will ditch the fertilized soil. The more I think about it the more I worry about what dodgy additives it may contain. Vietnam is definitely not going down the organic route at the moment.



> Does the Borneo wild substrate need capping? I thought its similar to columbo, ebi etc so shouldn't need capping mate.



I checked with the supplier and you are right. So I can use a soil compost substrate and cap with Borneo wild, although I will mix with gravel for aesthetic reasons.

So taking on board everyone's advice, how about I make up the substrate as follows:

1/3 Borneo Wild
1/3 Mature soil from flower bed
1/3 Sterilzed loam

(Just plucking that mix out of thin air, if you have a better suggestion of ratios please let me know)

Capped with a 50/50 mix of Borneo Wild and gravel.

Good recipe? Think it will make a nice Vietnamese soup (Pho)?

S


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## Tim Harrison (18 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Sounds fine, like Darrel said it's not an exact science, experimentation is all part of the fun...that is within limits


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## Stickleback (18 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Hi

Would there be any point in adding dried sphagnum moss (not peat) in to the mix?

S


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## Tim Harrison (19 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

I'd just go with the Borneo, soil, and loam.


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## dw1305 (19 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Hi all,


> Would there be any point in adding dried sphagnum moss (not peat) in to the mix?


 If you wanted to lower the hardness and pH it has a high CEC and will exchange H+ ions for Ca++ ions (it has a very low "base percent saturation"). It certainly won't do any harm.

The moss itself is almost 100% carbon, so it will only decompose fairly slowly.

cheers Darrel


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## Little-AL (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: Outdoor Planted Tank. (Vietnam) Possible? **Pics Page 4**

Looks stunning so far! Those wood pieces will look great...

Be intrigued to see it all planted up and running 


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