# High-energy soil-substrate layout - updated



## Tim Harrison (27 Jul 2012)

Below is the idealized layout for my next venture a high-tech/high-energy soil-substrate tank, the progress of which I hope to chart in a journal. 






The idea is to use relatively small leaved plants that give a sense of scale and make the tank look bigger than it actually is. Being only 60cm wide and 25cm in height it has the abstract aspect ratio of a much bigger tank. 

I hope to also achieve a sense of depth. The substrate will be soil capped by poorly sorted gravel to give the impression of a stream bed. Hard scaping will be manzi wood and cobbles. I intend to pile the gravel high toward the back left of the tank and slope it toward the front and right to a shallow depth.

Comments welcome especially on the plant choice and position.


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## darren636 (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

trying to read your diagram on my phone hurts my brain.... But as always very interesti to see what you come up with.


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## jack-rythm (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

hahaha love the effort gone in to this troi! amazing effort! nice too see your passion shinning through!


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## Ady34 (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

Will be cool, sounds like the hardscape and layout look will be a similar to the 'riverbank' scape at TGM, which i love: http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... -aquascape
Looking forward to following your trip into the high tech tank world   
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## leemonk (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

Trust me to start a journal the same day as you...........   

Going to be following yours very closely..........


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## hinch (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

hows your lowtech + co2 injected tank going ?


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## Tim Harrison (27 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> trying to read your diagram on my phone hurts my brain.... But as always very interesti to see what you come up with.



It hurts me too and I designed it...   



			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> hahaha love the effort gone in to this troi! amazing effort! nice too see your passion shinning through!



Thanks for that it's always nice when your effort...and more importantly passion...is appreciated  



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Will be cool, sounds like the hardscape and layout look will be a similar to the 'riverbank' scape at TGM, which i love: http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... -aquascape
> Looking forward to following your trip into the high tech tank world
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Thanks for that Ady, I really respect your opinion, and thanks for the link also, a truly inspirational aquascape  8) 



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Trust me to start a journal the same day as you...........
> 
> Going to be following yours very closely..........



As I will be following yours also, and I hope my effort is worthy   



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> hows your lowtech + co2 injected tank going ?



The existing tank is responding extremely well to its new CO2 diet, thanks for asking. In fact I am astounded at the growth rate and can't wait to combine a proper nutritious soil substrate with CO2, I have no doubt that it will prove a winning combination


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## tim (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

i can see a lot of soil based tanks popping up when this one works out well troi your scapes have been pretty stunning so far for low energy setups really looking forward to following this


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## plantbrain (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



> The existing tank is responding extremely well to its new CO2 diet, thanks for asking. In fact I am astounded at the growth rate and can't wait to combine a proper nutritious soil substrate with CO2, I have no doubt that it will prove a winning combination



So you are addicted to the dope(CO2) it sounds like  The soil should supply all you need for about 6-18 months or so...........then you will likely need to start adding more NO3 or have an ample fish feeding/livestock biomass.
Dosing the water can be done and will help. The soil tends to run out N fast, this is because NO3 does not bind..........and NH4 is attacked by roots and bacteria faster and is transformed much more than P or the other nutrients.

Since NH4 can bind, it'll last a while in soils. But once it's gone, you'll need a source of N to maintain similar results.


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## hinch (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

hrmp thats interesting as I've still been daily dosing on my soil+co2 tank since its been up and running. no ill effects so far (perhaps too early to tell?) if what you're saying is right tough then I should be good to just leave the tank running though now and forget about dosing.


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## leemonk (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> The existing tank is responding extremely well to its new CO2 diet, thanks for asking. In fact I am astounded at the growth rate and can't wait to combine a proper nutritious soil substrate with CO2, I have no doubt that it will prove a winning combination



Given your success's I'd imagine you will be competing with Tropica soon


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## Tim Harrison (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> > The existing tank is responding extremely well to its new CO2 diet, thanks for asking. In fact I am astounded at the growth rate and can't wait to combine a proper nutritious soil substrate with CO2, I have no doubt that it will prove a winning combination
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice Tom and the explanation; that's good to know. I think I've kinda decided to dose ferts from day one - going back to another discussion we had about soil vs water column dosing - and I want to see that mutant plant growth Clive promised I'd get


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## Tim Harrison (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Troi said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now there's a thought  :idea: but I don't think they'll be too worried just yet


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## Tim Harrison (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				tim said:
			
		

> i can see a lot of soil based tanks popping up when this one works out well troi your scapes have been pretty stunning so far for low energy setups really looking forward to following this



Thanks Tim that's very kind of you to say so...I think I'd better try and get this right  



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> hrmp thats interesting as I've still been daily dosing on my soil+co2 tank since its been up and running. no ill effects so far (perhaps too early to tell?) if what you're saying is right tough then I should be good to just leave the tank running though now and forget about dosing.



How's the growth rate though, I bet its pretty good?


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## hinch (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

its strange i'm getting naff all growth from the stems that in the pure low tech(kitty litter) shot up like rockets, I've had some crypt melt but not as major as I was expecting, the HC seems to be doing well in the half of the tank that gets some daylight all day but not so good in the other corner which only gets light when the t5's are on.

The one plant that is doing very well is a larged leaf thingie which pearls like a trooper and gives off a massive stream of bubbles from where one of its leafs is split (my fault i stabbed it with scissors when trimming back)

I'm putting the stems lack of growth down to the sudden change in environment and the pretty agressive root trimming I gave them before planting while they're not dying off they're just not growing.  going to give them another month hopefully they'll pick up.  I posted some upto date recent pictures of now vs first planting in my "journal" thread which is more of a picture dump than a journal I guess 

still there's no algae, very little diatoms on the glass all the fish seem to be doing fine and the water is crystal clear so I can't be that far off getting things right hopefully its just a time thing


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## leemonk (31 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

Tim,

What's your view on nutrients being available in the water column for those types of plants that do not have roots, I'm thinking of all floating plants and Anubias?

Regards


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## LancsRick (31 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

I've just set up my first soil tank, to give this a go - any tips on getting rid of the tannins quickly? I've got a load of carbon and purigen in there at the moment but I reckon it's going to take a good few days to clear given the change in colour...


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## Tim Harrison (31 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Tim,
> 
> What's your view on nutrients being available in the water column for those types of plants that do not have roots, I'm thinking of all floating plants and Anubias?
> 
> Regards



I think it's a good idea to cover all the bases. This might be of some use http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 3&start=20


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## Tim Harrison (31 Jul 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*



			
				LancsRick said:
			
		

> I've just set up my first soil tank, to give this a go - any tips on getting rid of the tannins quickly? I've got a load of carbon and purigen in there at the moment but I reckon it's going to take a good few days to clear given the change in colour...



The only other thing I can think of is a water change or two.


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## Tim Harrison (17 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout*

It's been a while; life has a way of overtaking and I haven't had the time nor the energy for the existing scape let alone make a start on the new one. The tank is more than a little neglected; just look at those lilly pipes...yuck. 





Actually, come to think of it, it's had no maintenance whatsoever for nearly 2 months, except the occasional top up; and I bunged some ferts in every now and then. Maybe acceptable for a low-energy scape but this one is fuel injected. 

I'm not supposed to get away with that sort of behavior...am I :?: 
...but fish, shrimp, and plants are all thriving, and absolutely no algae. 

However, today I grasped the nettle and broke the tank down, and now I have a blank canvas. The new journal begins...


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## Tim Harrison (18 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

The usual sequence...






















Next, planting.


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## foxfish (18 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

Have you buried a haggis.....


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

what were those two filled bags at the top photo? you used them to raise your soil? good idea.. what was it??


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> Have you buried a haggis.....



Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!  

Alas nooo!



			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> what were those two filled bags at the top photo? you used them to raise your soil? good idea.. what was it??



 :idea: Just filter media bags filled with pool filter sand, but henceforth they shall be known in the hobby as haggis, and those of the ladies tights variety - black puddings or Cumberland sausage depending on colour and morphology.

Yep the haggis raises the soil; soil of that depth would quickly become very anaerobic and probably poison the tank...
...obviously the haggis was a hard act for my hard scape to follow :!:


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## sarahtermite (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

I'm loving this tank - the dimensions work really well, and it's already got a real sense of depth and place.

But what stops the haggis-sand becoming anaerobic? Surely it's just as deep as the soil would be, with as little water movement through it. Or does the fact that it's relatively inert save it?


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> I'm loving this tank - the dimensions work really well, and it's already got a real sense of depth and place.
> 
> But what stops the haggis-sand becoming anaerobic? Surely it's just as deep as the soil would be, with as little water movement through it. Or does the fact that it's relatively inert save it?



Good question, and I think you've already answered it yourself; its inert nature makes it much less likely to pollute the tank. 

Aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature and macrophytes have evolved to grow in them, but if the soil layer is any deeper than around 4cm there is a danger it will become too anaerobic. 

If the sediment is too devoid of oxygen plants have to work harder to uptake nutrients from it, and heavy metals and hydrogen sulphide may reach levels toxic to aquatic life.

Thanks for the compliment.


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

ahh this is ideal then! i may use this technique in my new nano set ups.. where do you get that amount from?? it seems u have loads!


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## sarahtermite (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Good question, and I think you've already answered it yourself; its inert nature makes it much less likely to pollute the tank.
> 
> Aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature and macrophytes have evolved to grow in them, but if the soil layer is any deeper than around 4cm there is a danger it will become too anaerobic.
> 
> ...



I see! I'm definitely going to give this a go next time I rescape. Looking forward to seeing the planting in your tank!


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

How will you plant stem plants down to the soil if you have layered it with netting?  was thinking about doing this with some netting in my tank but was confused as the stem plants would need to be pushed into the soil underneath?


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> ahh this is ideal then! i may use this technique in my new nano set ups.. where do you get that amount from?? it seems u have loads!



Check this out - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardman-GF2957- ... 126&sr=8-3



			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> How will you plant stem plants down to the soil if you have layered it with netting?  was thinking about doing this with some netting in my tank but was confused as the stem plants would need to be pushed into the soil underneath?



The mesh is around 2mm gauge - small enough to retain the soil but large enough for plant roots to enter. Plants will naturally extend their roots down through a sand or gravel cap - and soil retainer - and in to the soil substrate below, often in a matter of days. 

The phenomenon is known a geotropism and occurs in response to gravity. The advantage of using a soil retainer is that it minimizes any soil disturbance and resulting turbidity during aquascaping.

In addition, I use a mix of 1:1 aquatic soil and moss peat, the fibrous matter in the peat also helps to keep the soil in place.


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

I have the exact same set up but i cap it with an inch or so of akadama. The peak and compost works brilliantly! I have it in a nano I have now for about 2 months. plants are beautiful....


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

peat****


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

Knew what you meant. Looking good!


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## Ady34 (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> The usual sequence...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lovely natural hardscape layout there Troi   very well balanced.
Looking forward to this one. 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## jack-rythm (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

really do like the wood, wort sort is it? was that an ebay buy?


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Lovely natural hardscape layout there Troi   very well balanced.
> Looking forward to this one.
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Thanks Ady.



			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> really do like the wood, wort sort is it? was that an ebay buy?



It's Manzy wood, this may be of interest - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22242


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## Iain Sutherland (19 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

love it mate, very natural feel,  keen to see this develop.


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## Tim Harrison (20 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> love it mate, very natural feel,  keen to see this develop.



Cheers Iain


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## Tim Harrison (20 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - hard scape*

Planted...


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## foxfish (20 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Good luck with your set up Tim.
I think you might get problems with the grass sending runners above the pebbles though?


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## Tim Harrison (20 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> Good luck with your set up Tim.
> I think you might get problems with the grass sending runners above the pebbles though?


 
Thanks for the good luck. As for runners, it's very much a work in progress, and I'm after a natural looking nature aquarium anyway - if that's not tautological - so I'll just go with it and see how it develops, anything I don't like I'll garden out.

FTS


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## Ady34 (20 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Very nice indeed, great planting, it looks very natural and settled already! Looking forward to a few weeks down the line.
Are the fish panda barbs or aurulius or some other, can't quite make them out on my phone?
Cheerio
Ady.


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## tim (21 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Nice start mate going to look very natural grown in definately one to watch could you post a flora/fauna list please troi


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## Tim Harrison (21 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Very nice indeed, great planting, it looks very natural and settled already! Looking forward to a few weeks down the line.
> Are the fish panda barbs or aurulius or some other, can't quite make them out on my phone?
> Cheerio
> Ady.



Cheers Ady, the barbs are the dwarf golden variety (_Pethia gelius_). It's a really good schooler.



			
				tim said:
			
		

> Nice start mate going to look very natural grown in definately one to watch could you post a flora/fauna list please troi



Thanks Tim, here's a full Amano style rundown:

DATA

Date			/September 2012
Aquarium		/W60 x D40 x H25 (cm)
Lighting		/15W x 2 lamps T8, turned on for 10 hours
Filter			/External canister - Eheim EcoPro 300
Substrate		/1:1 blend moss peat & aquatic compost, capped with gravel
Ferts /TNC Complete & Flourish excel, approx 2ml every other day
CO2			/Up-Aqua inline atomizer, 2 bubbles per second during photoperiod
Aeration		/Lilly pipe
Water Change	/1/2 once a week
Water Quality	/Temperature 23oC; pH6.9; TH >200mg/l (should stabilize at lower level once established)

Aquatic Plants

_Pogostemon erectus
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Cryptocoryne wendtii _‘Tropica’ (brown)
_Micranthemum micranthemoides
Rotola rotundifolia
Eleocharis acicularis
Aponogeton _sp. (possibly _natans_)
_Vesicularia Dubyana_ ‘Christmas’

Also very small amounts of _Lilaeopsis_ sp., _Staurogyne repens_, and _Glossostigma elatinoides_.  

Animals

_Danio/Celestichthys Margaritatus
Pethia gelius
Otocinclus sp.
Neocaridina heteropoda _


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## Matt1988 (21 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Looks great  subscribed

Matt


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				Matt1988 said:
			
		

> Looks great  subscribed
> 
> Matt



Cheers Matt, thanks for the encouragement.


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## darren636 (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

reminds me of one of georges' tanks. the english biotope.


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> reminds me of one of georges' tanks. the english biotope.



Cheers Darren, thanks for the compliment. Do you have a link to Georges' English biotope scape I'm not familiar with that one.


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## darren636 (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

yep, here you go. not exact but has the same 'feel'  http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3032


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> yep, here you go. not exact but has the same 'feel'  http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3032



Thanks, it does have a similar feel at the moment; obviously great minds think alike  
But I think the feel will be quite different once it's matured though


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## Gary Nelson (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

I like it, it looks very natural... Just like a snap shot under a river bed


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				Gary Nelson said:
			
		

> I like it, it looks very natural... Just like a snap shot under a river bed



Don't know where you live, but looks better than any riverbed on the Swale  

More like a chocolate milkshake.

Nice troi, was going for this effect in my Mini M but as it contains CRS the Wc's were frequent to keep everything in check.


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				Gary Nelson said:
			
		

> I like it, it looks very natural... Just like a snap shot under a river bed



Thanks Gary, that was my main aim.



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Gary Nelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cheers Whitney
The Swale valley is pretty scenic and in places fairly well braided with similar gravels; a legacy from its glacial past. It's just far from tropical  

The chocolate milkshake thing is an Interesting analogy; is it good or bad :?:


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## tim (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

think hes talkin about the swale mate not your tank when he said choc milkshake


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				tim said:
			
		

> think hes talkin about the swale mate not your tank when he said choc milkshake



 Oh I think I get it...as in turbidity :!:  right :?:


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Haha, yeah, I was referring to the river Swale when I said chocolate milkshake.

Yeah swaledale is very nice, I live in Richmond, North Yorkshire. Which I believe is fairly well known, considering its A town of only about 15,000.

Tanks very nice troi, I like the Manzanita    Layout in the corner, coupled with the stones/pebbles, it does look like a tropical stream.


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## Tim Harrison (23 Sep 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Haha, yeah, I was referring to the river Swale when I said chocolate milkshake.
> 
> Yeah swaledale is very nice, I live in Richmond, North Yorkshire. Which I believe is fairly well known, considering its A town of only about 15,000.
> 
> Tanks very nice troi, I like the Manzanita    Layout in the corner, coupled with the stones/pebbles, it does look like a tropical stream.



Was having a blond day yesterday. It seems to be happening with increasing regularity recently, maybe it's the onset of oldtimers disease :?

Nice part of the world...lucky devil.


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## mario (21 Oct 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Hi Troi how is the tank doing these days?

Cheers,
Mario


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## Tim Harrison (29 Oct 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Good thanks, it's maturing well. Here's a couple of unedited snapshots...


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## mario (1 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

I love it, it looks like a very natural riverbed!
Thank you for posting, keep us updated!

Mario


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## jack-rythm (1 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

You have absolutely cracked the river bed themed scape   really well done Mate. Good photo positioning too. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tim Harrison (2 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				mario said:
			
		

> I love it, it looks like a very natural riverbed!
> Thank you for posting, keep us updated!
> 
> Mario





			
				jackrythm said:
			
		

> You have absolutely cracked the river bed themed scape   really well done Mate. Good photo positioning too.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



Thanks guys, I was beginning to think no one cared...


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## REDSTEVEO (2 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Those last photo's are gob smackingly good, if I hadn't known it was an aquarium I would have thought someone had taken an underwater photo of a river bed.

Amazing what you did with the soil.  :idea: I might look at doing something similar to this on my pond in the spring.

Thanks for sharing and I look forward to further developments.

Steve


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## Tim Harrison (2 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> Those last photo's are gob smackingly good, if I hadn't known it was an aquarium I would have thought someone had taken an underwater photo of a river bed.
> 
> Amazing what you did with the soil.  :idea: I might look at doing something similar to this on my pond in the spring.
> 
> ...



Really...wow...thanks!


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## John S (3 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Looks great Tim   As the others have said it looks so natural.

What maintenance do you do on this?


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## Tim Harrison (3 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*



			
				davem said:
			
		

> Looks great Tim   As the others have said it looks so natural.
> 
> What maintenance do you do on this?



Thanks Dave, very little although the plants grow at an phenomenal rate. I trim perhaps once every two weeks and change about 50% of the water at the same time. Algae on the glass and plants is pretty much non-existent, minimal at worst. Although, I've got a very healthy bright green covering on some of the stones and wood, which looks amazing and only adds to the natural look. So overall perhaps no more than an hour every two weeks, excluding tinkering with the layout of course.

I've found that given a balance between lighting, CO2, fertz dosing, flow, etc I can leave the tank for a month or more without maintenance and both fish, and plants seem to thrive without showing deficiency or any symptoms of excess metabolite buildup that a lot of others seem to experience in high-energy setups. I think that perhaps we tend to kill with kindness, so I advocate healthy neglect. Obviously, that doesn't suit everyone especially those that go for more manicured look, but then I kinda like to let nature do its thing 8)


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## jack-rythm (3 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Bit like my walstad jungle nano. Do a water change maybe once month on that too  

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Tim Harrison (3 Nov 2012)

*Re: High-energy soil-substrate layout - planted (image heavy*

Strangely enough you're right. My high-energy tank has a lot more in common with my low-energy tank than I was perhaps initially led to believe was possible. 

I think that Clive is essentially right...Like him, I also think that given the correct balance between parameters it isn't at all necessary to bombard macrophytes with excessive photons to see them at their best, and this is perhaps the key to solving many a high-energy problem.

By the way, for what it's worth, I've just noticed that p4 was devoid of photos, I have now reinstated them. And here's another:


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## plantbrain (8 Nov 2012)

My talk at the AGA was centered around light and CO2 mostly. As nutrients, or light or CO2 go from no growth and then severe limiting levels, up to moderate limitations, to critical level(90% or more max potential growth) to non limiting................this relations ship is Non linear.

In other words, at the lower levels of light, say the change from 30 umols to 40umol is HUGE.
At 150 vs 160 umols, the change is virtually non existent. 

The CO2 demand also behaves precisely the same way. There are huge differences between say 30 and 40 umols of light on the CO2 demand. There is very good support in the research specific to aquatic submersed plants(Bowes, Haller and Van, 1976).   

Ole and Troels also presented such evidence, but did not discuss it in this context, but they both know about it and could fill folks in if asked.


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## Tim Harrison (9 Nov 2012)

Thanks Tom both papers make very interesting reading, and at least go some distance in dispelling commonly held misconceptions.


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