# Tragedy in CRS tank



## daniel19831123 (2 Jan 2010)

i've recently purchased some otocinclus and RCS for my CRS shrimp tank. Bought it from maidenhead aquatic in Stockport. Looking at how the guy handled the fish, I wasn't pleased at all. Not only he picked some really deformed otos to put in the bag, he even bagged me a fish that looks half dead (after he bagged it without double checking). The way he was trying to catch the fish was brutal. If you were looking from behind and didn't realised that it was a tank of otos, you probably think that he was fighting a dragon or an eel 4 metre long. Needless to say, I was very careful in acclimatising the fish, took me 2 hours to replace the water totally and release the fish into my tank. Came back 2 hours later to find all fish dead. The dead fish must have produced quite a lot of ammonia, killing off some of my newly acquired  deep red red cherry shrimp and 2 high grade (Double hinomura) crystal red shrimp. Had to perform a 30% water change immediately and probably more later tonight when the temperature of the water equilibrate. 

I normally support LFS for various thing but I have to say this is the second time they let me down in the last 3 months. Think from now on, I'll steer clear from the LFS. Sometimes it does make me wonder, why start a business about fish keeping when the person selling them obviously haven't got a clue about their own product? AS if situation are not bad enough, the owner then hire someone to brutally severe the fish that is already stress out in their tank...


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (2 Jan 2010)

Daniel 

I would go back tomorrow and complain and tell them what has happened and all the trumor it has caused, I bought some ottos from MA @ Carlisle - 1 died after a couple of hour, the others were ok, so i returned the following week and advised them to what had happened, they replaced the one that died + two others and added in some hatchet fish as well.

Regards
Paul.


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## daniel19831123 (2 Jan 2010)

Well I would normally do that if it's around the corner from me. But this is the only maidenhead around manchester and it's 30-40 minutes drive away. I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the idea of them replacing dead fish with ill fish, esp not when I'm thinking of putting them with expensive shrimp. When I look at the fish I thought they just look a little underfed (as expected from LFS), Upon a closer look at them again when they died, some of them look so emciated that it takes a lot more than underfeed to do that. I've gotten so mad that I've spent another 200 quid ordering more CRS from germany to please myself... (I'm mad alright. lol). It took me so long to get hold of some decent stock of CRS and this wipe 20% of my stock away. I'll ring and make a complain tomorrow and see what they say. I won't trust them with livestock from now on.


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## daniel19831123 (3 Jan 2010)

Did 3 30% water change overnight and the shrimp appeared to be behaving normally again. So far only lost one hinomaru CRS out of the 11 that I've got. They are swimming normally but doesn't appear to be grazing as usual yet. Might do another water change now and see how things improve.


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## Egmel (3 Jan 2010)

Hmmm, I think there are 2 problems here, the first is that the fish were not in good nick when you got them.  The second was that you added them directly to a tank with expensive livestock.

We've all done it, a quarantine tank is a hassle to set up, but if you intend to keep expensive stock then it's a necessary precaution.  

However I agree with the other comments here, phone the MA and they should let you get replacements or a refund.  I had a similar issue with some parotocinclus that I bought, couldn't get back for a couple of weeks but arranged it over the phone and froze the corpses as proof.  They replaced them and they've been happy ever since.


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## daniel19831123 (3 Jan 2010)

yes it was kinda stupid of me to have added the fish directly. Well not having any extra room for quarantine tank doesn't help. Wished I've got my own house now. Then I can kick my current housemate out and change his room into a fish room. lol


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## dw1305 (4 Jan 2010)

Hi all,
I think your best bet is not to  buy Otos from a "chain store", they buy them cheap and rely on selling enough of them before all their stock die from stress/disease/starvation. I think of them like little Gold Nugget plec's (_Baryancistrus_).

Ideally you need a "hobbyist" LFS where someone feeds them with vegetables, so you can buy them after they've been in stock for a while and you can see them eating.

cheers Darrel


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## daniel19831123 (4 Jan 2010)

unfortunately this doesn't happen very much here. Most of the Fish shops are run by people who have very little knowledge of fish keeping. I would definitely attempt to set up a hobbyist fish shop if my career is more establish.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (4 Jan 2010)

Daniel 

Did you contact them and complain.
Paul.


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## daniel19831123 (4 Jan 2010)

Yes. they were apologetic about it but can't do anything as I can't provide any evidence that the fish had died and I've disposed the corpse. I've complained about the standard of their fish and the way the fish was handled and they say they'll look into it. Not too convinced if they will change anything there. Only time will tell.


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## Egmel (4 Jan 2010)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I think your best bet is not to  buy Otos from a "chain store", they buy them cheap and rely on selling enough of them before all their stock die from stress/disease/starvation. I think of them like little Gold Nugget plec's (_Baryancistrus_).
> 
> Ideally you need a "hobbyist" LFS where someone feeds them with vegetables, so you can buy them after they've been in stock for a while and you can see them eating.
> ...


This isn't always the case, my MA always has nice and fat little ottos, mine came from there and they've all been fine   I think it depends on the staff in any store, you may find your odds are better in a non-chain store but I wouldn't say that it's the best indicator.  

The best way to judge if fish are worth buying is to watch them for a while before you buy them (I tend to browse the fish for a while then pop next door for a cup of tea and a bit of cake before coming back to buy the fish  ).  

Even after they've bagged the fish up, don't be afraid to ask for different ones if you're not happy with the ones they've caught.  You are the customer and you're buying a pet, you wouldn't just take the first puppy they can catch, why should you do that for a fish?


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2010)

Yep





> I think it depends on the staff in any store, you may find your odds are better in a non-chain store but I wouldn't say that it's the best indicator.


the quality of the staff is what makes the difference, I'd always travel to find a store with good staff.
cheers Darrel


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## daniel19831123 (16 Jan 2010)

More tragedy in my tank.... Added 2 pots of aquafleur plants into my shrimp tank after quarantine them for 1 week  in a separate planted tank and within 48 hours I've lost all my CRS.... Most died after molting.... I think I give up the idea of a CRS shrimp tank for now until I can get my hands on a bigger tank.


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## Garuf (16 Jan 2010)

Copper treated plants do you know?


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## daniel19831123 (16 Jan 2010)

I know. but I expect that it would have cleared up after 1 week in a high flow tank that received 3 water changes during that time. I've just posted the same comment on shrimpnow forum and apparently people have experience death of shrimp when they have quarantine the plants for more than 3 weeks.


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## Garuf (16 Jan 2010)

What are the plants? did they get planted into the substrate? If they did then I think it could be an ammonia/nitrate other nasty peaking by being released into the water column! :!:


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## LondonDragon (16 Jan 2010)

Were you dosing anything in this tank? 

I have purchased Ottos from two different LFS near me and both times they wiped out most of my livestock.

They are too fast for the guys at the shop to catch so they have to be a little brutal catching them and puts the fish under a lot of stress, the last batch of 6 Ottos I purchased after a week only one survided, and wiped out most of my Rasboras.

I will never purchase Ottos again, just get small fish for you tank and purchase a load of shrimp instead. Amanos are pretty good cause they are larger than most shrimp.

Good luck with the future project, in my shrimp tanks I have no fish at all and don't dose anything other than TPN+ but almost nothing. I must have dose my 60 liter tank about 5ml over the last 2 months.


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## Hokum (16 Jan 2010)

Try the Ashton MA, the main guy there seems ok and knows a bit about fish even. The only other place to look at would be "The Aquarium" at Cockfields. I'd certainly complain.


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## daniel19831123 (16 Jan 2010)

Well the otos only wiped out one shrimp. the plants on the other hand wiped out all but one shrimp. I've managed to source another LFS for Otos in bolton and I've bought 15 from them. Only had one died and that was due to accident.

I was dosing with 2 mls of TPN+ daily with weekly water changes. It can't be the TPN+ because not only it wiped out my CRS, it walso wiped out my cherrys as well. The cherrys in my smaller 10g tank that received 5 mls daily TPN+ didn't have a problem with it. 

Garuf, I didn't plant them in the substrate. I left them in the pot to grow. I suppose maybe the rockwool could have suck up somoe of the copper and will take ages to clear it.


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