# How can I solve THESE algae types?



## Martin cape (31 Mar 2013)

Hi guys,

I have a T5 Juwel light unit over the Rio 180, and I'm getting a bit of BBA. I cannot do anything about the light. It is 90w across 2 tubes and it won't work with just one illuminated. It's only on for 6 hours a day and I cannot get any lower wattage bulbs. 

I dose EI using this calculator http://blog.fluidsensoronline.com/calculators/estimative-index/ based on 140 litres due to substrate and wood etc. 

I inject CO2 for 7 hours, (4 hours before lights on through an external reactor) up to my drop checker shows lime green/yellow. 

Flow wise I have a JBL e1501 firing out of the spray bar across the middle back wall. Either side I have a Koralia Nano 900. So in total 3200 lph flow. 

I have BBA on the edges of the bogwood I have and on some lead edges, especially anubias nana, green spot algae just above the substrate about a cm high, and green dust algae that easily comes off with a magnetic scraper. 

What am I doing wrong? Or what can I do to sort the algae issues. Can I increase EI slightly to compensate for the high light? Do I need more CO2 in there? Or do I need more flow? 

Any help appreciated guys, its doing my head in now.


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## Iain Sutherland (31 Mar 2013)

Martin cape said:


> Can I increase EI slightly to compensate for the high light? Do I need more CO2 in there? Or do I need more flow?


could be all of the above however its unlikely you need to increase ferts.  EI was built with the foundation that the dosing should be in excess even with the highest of lighting.  However that said green spot is usually PO4 shortage so increasing this may see the green spot away.  
As always co2 is usually to blame, not enough of it or how its distrubuted.  Reduce light intensity and give the algae grief as much as possible with large water changes, scrub rocks, spot dose BBA, filter clean etc 
keep the tank spotless and the algae will usually give up.


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## Henry (1 Apr 2013)

What kind of plants are we dealing with here?
I can't help but think that EI dosing might not be the "one size fits all" solution people think it is. Hygrophila species especially need considerably higher nutrient levels than most.


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## Martin cape (1 Apr 2013)

Cheers guys, here's a list of the plants I have in there:

Various Crypts
1 Amazon Sword
Alternanthera reineckii lilacina
Rotala rotundifolia
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Anubias Nana
Flame and Java moss
Blyxa Japonica
Hemianthus callitrichoides

That's the lot. It's just annoying when I have to remove affected leaves. Especially the Anubias. Hardly any on there.


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## Iain Sutherland (1 Apr 2013)

dont remove the anubia leaves, spot dosing liquid carbon will kill BBA and GSA.


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## Martin cape (1 Apr 2013)

Think I'm going to remove all hard scale later and scrub everything, get rid of the BBA then double dose excel for a week. 

Need to up my EI a little too I think but the calculator is offline


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## linkinruss (1 Apr 2013)

I double dose my tank on EI. suggested to use 25ml but I go overboard and do 50ml
My mixture is also different with upped dosage.


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## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2013)

Henry said:


> What kind of plants are we dealing with here?
> I can't help but think that EI dosing might not be the "one size fits all" solution people think it is. Hygrophila species especially need considerably higher nutrient levels than most.


If it doesn't fit then that means YOU are doing something wrong.

Cheers,


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## Marco Aukes (2 Apr 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> If it doesn't fit then that means YOU are doing something wrong.


 
Ok, but since I am the "read and learn" type of guy (and I have learned a lot from your posts here); any clues on the above what it might be that the topic starter is doing wrong here?


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## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2013)

OK, fair enough mate. Look, let's forget about the dosing program, alright? BBA has absolutely nothing to do with nutrients. I think that's where people fall off the wagon. There are basically three types of algal forms;
1. Those that arise due to nutrient deficiency.
2. Those that arise due to CO2 deficiency.
3. Those that can arise from any combination of CO2 and nutrient deficiency.

When we are able to identify which category we are dealing with, it can make life a little bit easier because we don't waste time on possibilities that are irrelevant. BBA could care less about nutrients. It is strictly a category 2 type algae so you can see immediately how much time has already been wasted by people talking about, and questioning the dosing program.

So fundamentally we need to think about ways of improving the CO2. This includes not only thinking in terms of improving the concentration, level, but also improving the flow/distribution, as well as the timing of the CO2 so that the concentration levels are as high and as stable as possible.

To do this, as we've suggested, we need to understand how the CO2 concentration levels vary as a function of time. One way of doing this is to measure the pH throughout the day at specific and regular intervals. The pH changes throughout the day provides us with a clue of the CO2 concentration profile in the tank. Again this is like looking into a room by peeking through the keyhole. It's not the whole story, but it does give us a clue.

What we normally will find is that the pH value falls to a minimum value at the wrong time of the day, or that it fluctuates throughout the day. Again, the accuracy of the assessment depends on how frequently the pH measurements are taken. What you would ideally like to see is that the pH is at it's maximum value some time during the night and that a pH change of 1 unit is achieved at lights on, and stays at that value for most of the photoperiod. If we are able to come close to achieving that ideal profile then we would have at least solved the problem of CO2 stability and CO2 concentration level.

Flow and distribution is another issue entirely and we've discussed that on a lot of threads. Lighting is another issue that we've discussed in terms of not going over the top and being in control of the intensity.

To get rid of the BBA that is in the tank requires muscle, because it won't go away by itself, you have to eradicate it, normally by hand, by massive and frequent water changes, and by using liquid carbon. The liquid carbon application can be via spot dosing when the water level is really low, or by 2X or 3X daily overdosing until the tufts turn pink. In fact, doing a large massive water change just by itself has enormous benefit because the plants will be exposed to air, which has lots of CO2. When the tank is refilled, the air is trapped and in effect, you have given the plants a massive dose of CO2 if the leaves were exposed during water removal. If the water change is don just at lights on or within an hour of lights on, this has extra benefits because the beginning of the photoperiod is THE most critical time for CO2.

So BBA requires that we be at our absolute best in terms of plant husbandry because there are so many avenues through winch it can attack.

Cheers,


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## greenink (3 Apr 2013)

I thought doing a big water change at lights on would make CO2 levels unstable as it artificially boosts them for a short period and that this would then make BBA worse?

Is that not the case? Have never had BBA since I switched to water changes only after lights out.


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## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2013)

No, it's no the case, the water change adds CO2 and mitigates the instability caused by the original problem in the first place, in the same way as adding Excel would, for example.

While this might be true in a non-enriched tank, it is unlikely in a CO2 enriched tank that your defeating BBA is only due to with the water change schedule. You must have done other things in that CO2 tank to defeat BBA.

Cheers,


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