# Scape help



## Garuf (14 Dec 2007)

Hello, as im sure some of you are aware I've had an algae take over as of late so I'm using this as a thinly veiled excuse to do a over haul and a subtle scape change.
So here's the proposed christmas rescape if I can get plants/decide it's worth while.





what do you think? 
please help me choose plants, Im thinking anubias, crypt's, bolbitis and needle leaved fern but open to suggestions especially as as I want to create something special.

tank spec's are 18"-12"-12" and high light and co2 injection via diffuser.


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## Graeme Edwards (14 Dec 2007)

Hi garuf, its really hard to give advice, as your picture is really small. Try reposting it again!

Cheers.


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## Garuf (14 Dec 2007)

yeah god knows what thats about when you post over the link it goes all mank. I'll edit it and see if it helps.


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## Garuf (17 Dec 2007)

no one?


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## Graeme Edwards (17 Dec 2007)

Hi Garuf,

The design look fine as it is. the forground should work well. As for the mid-back, well it apears there is only a mid section to this scape. The narrow furn and Bolbitus will look good,but will need carefull placement. you will need to hide all those strate cut ends on your wood, either try braking them up with some pliers, or cracking them some how, or the other thing you could do is, cover them in moss. They look unatural as they.

Hope that helps!


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## Garuf (17 Dec 2007)

Thanks G Edwards. 
when you say they need careful placement what do you mean? Also, how do I get a midground? (sorry I'm a total newbie, this is my first tank).
I'll try the wood crushing thing, thank you. 
Regarding plants, what would you use?
I really like those "umbrella" plants tom use's, I could do with better rocks too what would you suggest?


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## Dave Spencer (17 Dec 2007)

Garuf,

What I always like to see with small tanks is the use of plants to make the tank look bigger than it actually is. This involves the use of smaller leafed stem plants such as HM or Micranthemum umbrosum. Stems such as these should give you a nice background.

Don`t be surprised if your hairgrass grows taller than you expect. Eleocharis `parvula` stays the lowest of the Eleocharis _sp_

Dave.


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## Garuf (17 Dec 2007)

Hey cheers dave, I've got some HM lined up so that should be fine. 
The Hairgrass I've got is Eleocharis acicularis which gets quiet tall, which is nice because it means I can trim it go give impression of depth. 

What other plants would you use in a scape like this? I'm not sold on the anubia's but like there size, is there anything I could use instead of them?


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## Dave Spencer (18 Dec 2007)

Trimming the hairgrass shorter at the front and leaving it longer at the back seems like a good idea, a bit like a mullett.  

I don`t know whether it`s possible to buy over here yet, but the petite _var_ of Anubias nana is on my wish list for sure, as long as it stays as small as Tropica say. I have wondered what it will look like with Marsilea _sp_ sat in front of it.

The plant you like in Tom`s tank looks like a Hydrocotyle _sp_ to me.


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

Well I tell you what dave I'm gonna get some from thailand and ill split the rhizome after a few months of growth if you bug me to remember. 

4 leaved clover infront would look good i guess but doesnt it get really big?
What other plants could I use instead of barteri petite? 

Can I get some help with the placement of the bolbitis and the needles leave fern as I don't really understand how to get the best placement. 
I envisioned the bolbitis planted behind the wood would it be better attached to something? same goes for the N.L.F.


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## daniel19831123 (18 Dec 2007)

getting bolbitis and placing it so it looks nice is either going to take a while or a lot of money to makes it looks good. The price of bolbitis is really expensive and you get minute portion of the plants. I got myself a deal from a seller in germany but he stop selling them on bogwood anymore and only sell those potted one which work out just as expensive as any other seller eve from the far east. My bolbitis has only grown 3 large leaves and 4 medium sized leave and a few small/tiny leave since I got them a month ago. Will take me a year or two before I can do any more rescaping with them. Hopefully they will grow much faster with CO2 addition. Just something to bear in mind or else you might regret spending that money and not getting the scape you desire in time.


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

cheers dan, I've just gotten back from stoke, bought myself some ember tetras...

I hear you on the bolbitis, I'm injecting co2 and running high light so I should be ok regarding growth it's just a matter of biding my time, I do plan on adding 2 rhizomes worth so that's going to be quiet a few leaves in a 10gall like mine.


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## daniel19831123 (18 Dec 2007)

mine is 16 gallon and you can see what is 3-4 rhizome with about 20 leaves look like in my tank here


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

best make it 3...


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## Dave Spencer (18 Dec 2007)

The choice of fish in small tanks is vital IMO, and Ember tetras are a good buy, Garuf. I have six of these in a 24l and the orange they show looks great against a green background. I have had mine for about seven months now, and they barely reach 2cm in length.

As for the four leaved clover, once submerged the plantlets should become single lobed, with a leaf shape complimentary to the Anubias. It`s something I want to try some time.

Dave.


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

Thanks Dave, 
what does submersed flc look like? It could be something I try, I've been pricing up plants and I'm up to Â£48 so I'll have to find a new home for my anubias baretri nana's. 
It's ebay I'm getting the plants of though so an email may be able to save me some money fingers crossed. 
interesting stems are what I need now for a background, HM I'm not sure will grow tall enough so something else small leaved. 

I just hope this all pulls together.


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## Ed Seeley (18 Dec 2007)

It looks quite a lot like Glossostigma but grows much more slowly.  I had it in my cube, but it got covered with BBA.  I've got it growing emersed now and it looks great with it's four-lobed leaves.  It grows much quicker emersed so I'm bulking it up to try it submersed again.


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

Hey that sounds really good, glosso didnt work for me it just seemed really big, I could never keep it small like how it comes from tropica. 

Ed would it be possible to get some off you once you have enough?


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## Dave Spencer (18 Dec 2007)

Garuf said:
			
		

> interesting stems are what I need now for a background, HM I'm not sure will grow tall enough so something else small leaved.



My HM was growing to 25cm before I would cut it back, so it may grow even a little taller. Micranthemum umbrosum will definiteley grow tall enough. Take a look at Rotala _s_p `nanjenshan` and Rotala rotundifolia as well.

Rotala _sp_ `nanjenshan`





Rotala rotundifolia









Dave.


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

I'm almost certain I have the second one but I think mine is green entirely. They both are gorgeous though I especially like no-1 but especially number 2 as well.
I'll consider umberosum as an alternative to HM so thats cool. 
How does Â£2 a plant sounds for anubias nana's petite? 
and is Â£14 expensive for needle leaved fern?


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## Ed Seeley (18 Dec 2007)

Sure we'll be able to sort something out.  I'll tell you how I've bulked it up quickly too so you can do that yourself and grow as much as you need!  Will be a month or so though as I've just repotted it and split it all up again recently and it'll need to grow out again before it gets disturbed really.


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## Garuf (19 Dec 2007)

awesome pm me details, 

How the tank looks as of today.
overall working shot, showing hungry hungry otto's and the hc they kindly unplanted. I need to buy an algae scraper too, paint the back of the tank too...






close up of the clado that's troubling me lately.


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## Garuf (23 Dec 2007)

Plant's ordered, does anyone have any tips for when they arrive? 
also where's the best place to get good sized rocks?  
Should be doing the strip and plant some time in January, I'll be selling the anubia's I have at the moment then. 
Also are there any other recommendations for plants I could use or would work well in this scape?


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## Garuf (6 Jan 2008)

Ripped up the hc and relayed It, Added rocks and trimmed back everything else, ready for the new plant's here's how it looks now, what do you think? how do I improve it? constructive criticism welcome as always.


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## Dave Spencer (7 Jan 2008)

It looks like you have the makings of a nice tank there, Garuf.

I am not sure about the straight line of rocks that separate the fore ground from the rest of the tank. Personally, I would remove the large rock on the right.

Dave.


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## Garuf (7 Jan 2008)

Thank you Dave your not the first to recommend this and the more I look at the tank the more I agree, If you where to do this tank where would you take it next?
I'll look to remove/replace the rock, which would you recommend? I thought maybe 2 smaller rocks but I'm not so sure?
Again thank you, It's nice to know I'm actually getting somewhere.


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## Garuf (12 Jan 2008)

Hm and mosses arrived today and the mosses are amazing to say the least, Anyone have any tips on where and how to attach? I was thinking maybe a few pebbles with moss on amongst the stones?
I'll be removing the large rock on the left when I attach the moss this way all the disturbances happen at once.
My AQmagic plants haven't arrived yet, Just hoping they arrive all in one piece.


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## Dan Crawford (12 Jan 2008)

at looks really really nice mate, I'm with dave on the line of rocks. If it were mine then I'd remove the big one and replace it with two smaller ones and place them to sort of wrap around the base if the wood?
my other thought is that there are two rocks on the left pointing upward, maybe remove one and point the other sort of less vertical if that makes sense. You have the makings of a great scape there, keep it up.


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## Garuf (12 Jan 2008)

Thanks dan I'll look into point A, the rock in question I put in first, may be you can tell. I was considering turning it through 90degrees but I can't decide, If not 2x smaller ones will probably be what I use.
Forgive me but I don't get what you meant by point B? maybe you could circle what you mean or draw it?


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## Garuf (20 Jan 2008)

double post, please delete.


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## Garuf (20 Jan 2008)

*Half way through re-scape*

Half way though, time for a brew. 
Any tips before I continue?
Im thinking anubias or moss for the large area of exposed wood, good idea?
Where do I plant the Needle leaved ferns?


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## TDI-line (20 Jan 2008)

Maybe where the wood meets the rock.


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## Ed Seeley (20 Jan 2008)

As was suggested above the Anubias tied where the rock and wood meet would look good.  Your needle leaved ferns could then be tied to the wood behind that on the bare section.


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## Garuf (20 Jan 2008)

I tried and failed to get the anubias to stay in place just behind the rock so its slight up from there, the NLF I have tied to stones and placed them behind the 2 most vertical branches,I'll replant them else where once they're much bigger, if needs be that is. 
Enough talk here are the pictures. 
It's a mess and will take months to settle in properly but the building blocks are there.


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## Arana (20 Jan 2008)

Lokking great Garuf  once it grows in it should evolve into a stunner  

Nice work


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## Garuf (20 Jan 2008)

Thanks arana, I'm looking forward to watching it grow in. 
The bolbitis is going to either make or break this scape.


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## Ray (21 Jan 2008)

Is that a T5 in a length of rainwater guttering?  Quite ingenious!


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## GreenNeedle (21 Jan 2008)

Looks great Garuf.  I like the lily pipes and the whole 'ADA' style look to it.

Nice bit of scaping there too.

Andy


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## Garuf (21 Jan 2008)

Thanks everyone, Rayi, yes it is, Its a powercompact screwed into a strip of guttering, I'll be hanging it soon as at present it only rests on my tank.


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## Garuf (21 Jan 2008)

Thank you Andy, the lilies are cal aqua and if I'm 100% truthful 10gallons is out of their remit. 
And thank you for the compliment, I'm looking forward to seeing your new scape.


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## Garuf (28 Jan 2008)

impromptu rescape, removed one of the rocks and while doing so dropped and I think i've smashed the base of my tank. 
currently have all my plants in one bucket and all the fish in another.
wish me luck


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## Ed Seeley (28 Jan 2008)

Oops   , hope the tank is ok.


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## Garuf (28 Jan 2008)

I hope so too, I've ran out of buckets to store stuff in, looks like I'll have to refill the slurry and hope for the best.


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## Garuf (30 Jan 2008)

After finally getting enough water and Aquasoil out I discovered the tank was cracked but I've sealed it and refilled, here is the aftermath.
3am this morning






6pm today.





8pm today. 





The water cleared enough to see the damage done, water still not totally clear, fish still not in the tank. I appear to need more substrate, where its gone I don't know,everything looks beaten up, washed out and generally a bit rubbish. 




All my plants too a beating from being out all night, especially the stems, shame they'd only really just taken off. I might replace them with something else, something healthier.




This is the only area I like about the new scape, I'll be planting some Hc running into the hair grass. I don't know if it will work or not but then I'm so disheartened by this whole fiasco I'm shocked anything good has come out of it. Planting the hairgrass was difficult, no end of times it came unplanted, It looks a eye sore as soon as you notice the lack of skill in planting. 





Anyone want to step in and tell me where I can improve or donate a grand bunch of stems of something nice? 
This hole affair has made me wonder why I didn't give up.


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## Arana (2 Feb 2008)

Well done for sticking with it through that disaster    are the fish back in yet? i'm sure you will be rewarded with a fine scape once the dust has settled


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## TDI-line (9 Feb 2008)

Do you think the seal will be ok?


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## Garuf (10 Feb 2008)

I don't know I hope so, I want to get a new tank soon anyway so its all good, I'm thinking a rekord 60, something already rimless rather than this bodge.


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## StevenA (10 Feb 2008)

I think you're doing yourself an injustice Garuf, you've made a great job of this setup, when many people would have given up on it  

Where did you get the great piece of wood from?  Sorry if you've already told us.


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## Garuf (11 Feb 2008)

I got it from Glovers in Fenton, Stoke, It's my favourite part of the tank but unfortunately It means I get pretty poor co2 distribution. 

The scape as it stands looks good except that my light blew a few days ago and effectively meant I inadvertently ran a 6 day black out which has all but wiped out my hair grass, one thing after another with this tank I swear.
It still has an algae problem too which seems to have been exacerbated by the drying out of the plants. 
I've also planted the HC which promises to look fantastic, I hope it doesn't disappoint me because I have high hopes for it. 

My biggest gripe with this tank is that I can't get my plants to grow anywhere near as well as everyone else on this forum yet my set up is superior to some in regards to equipment. 
I always get algae and I always struggle with stems, I don't know what it is about them but they never grow as strong or as bushy as everyone else's. Hygropholia polysperma has been the only one I can happily say I have had luck with yet at the same time it just isn't right for this tank, it's leaves are too big and it drew far too much light from the scape. 
Ideally I'd like to get a HM wall going but I've had it melt on me so once I have enough to replant it to a thick level I will give it another go but it feels like I'm doing something wrong that I just can't Identify.  
The anubias are struggling too, I don't know what it is that I'm doing wrong but I must be doing something.
The bolbitis is yet to send out any new leaves so we shall have to wait to see how the scape fills out with their presence. 

Ooo another thing I don't like so much, the substrate, to my eyes I don't appear to have enough, I think I'd like it to appear to be much more raised towards the centre and deeper at the front, I could be wrong but that's just my gut feeling.

ANYWAY I'm rambling so I shall discontinue.


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## TDI-line (11 Feb 2008)

I wouldn't worry about your biggest gripe, i think you'll find we all have some form of algae, and my hygrophilia is the only plant which grows out of control too. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Garuf (11 Feb 2008)

*A week without light*

No light for a week has wiped out the hair grass.
Enjoy.


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## TDI-line (11 Feb 2008)

These post-war scapes won't catch on.


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## Garuf (18 Feb 2008)

*Refining the scape.*

So this is what It looks like after a week without light, 4 days without co2 and after me with my hands in the tank trying to remove as much algae as possible. 




The stems all grow towards the left, where the window is so I'm going to get a blind fitted to  it and block out as much as possible. 
A positive is I found my first shoot of bolbitis and that I have mad pearling from the java fern rotala and HC, the negatives are I also have pearling from the ridiculous amount of algae I gained from the bulb blowing/ dead hairgrass fiasco.


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## Garuf (15 Mar 2008)

*Update*

As you can see things haven't really improved, the presence of so much decay caused an enormous algae outbreak, since then I've been battling on, I've still got algae but I'm off college for 2 weeks so I can turn my attention to ridding it, I'm gonna get some excel and do 3 day's of dosing with a water change then a black out of 3 days, fingers crossed I'll be able to find some hair grass to replace that that died. 
Today an update, I trimmed back all the stems and planted up the tops to double what I'd got, the bases of the hc rotted so that had to come out and get cut back and relayed so fingers crossed it'll catch on and spread. 





Tomorrow I'll clean the glass ware and do a huge water change, as well as continuing to remove as much algae and dead leaves as possible, I'll be keeping a close eye on the co2 too since I've upped it in an attempt to rid the BBA and Clado I've got since the cracked base broken light incident.


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## Garuf (17 Mar 2008)

I didn't clean the glassware, I didn't do a water change, I did however take the wood out and give it a good scrub, I'll be doing all the planned stuff tomorrow after work, (mono rail driver 8) ).


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## Themuleous (17 Mar 2008)

Oh crap, thats a real shame Gareth. Think you have two choices.  Rip it all apart and start again or battle through and let the plants sort the algae out.  Which they can and will in time.

If you ever feel like giving up read my nano journal over on TFF, its taken me two years to get that tank sorted!!!!

Sam


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## Garuf (17 Mar 2008)

I'm not tearing down, almost off of the algae is on one or 2 areas, mainly on the hardscape, which leads me to believe it shouldn't be too difficult to clear up once I've gotten my act together.


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## Garuf (24 Mar 2008)

Take a look at the picture above, see the green slime, I now cannot see into the tank for said slime. holding down 2 jobs all holiday has meant that I've been unable to enjoy my tank and run maintenance, simply because I aren't home when the lights are on and other than pick out algae and dose I've been at a loss. 
I'll be running a black out, hoping for the best, and going from there, what I need now is cegipedia and some excel,


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## Garuf (18 Apr 2008)

This tank is no more, moral of the story, research everything use lower lighting than people from the us recommend and run your co2 high. Also, never buy a "Tahiti aqua" tank because the quality is shocking.


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## Themuleous (20 Apr 2008)

Pants


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## Steve Smith (20 Apr 2008)

Unlucky mate   Still, the hardscape was great so should be good in the next setup


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