# Cat litter



## foxfish

I keep reading about clay based cat litter as a substrate (I use it myself) or even used under another type of substrate!
Could someone please clarify the benefits of using cat litter, I assume it is because of its porous nature?


----------



## Jack middleton

I use it and I'm not going to pay for other substrates again! It's just as good IMO.

It has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) so it can absorb nutrients and release them over time, so water column fertilization is required.


----------



## AdAndrews

Jack middleton said:
			
		

> I use it and I'm not going to pay for other substrates again! It's just as good IMO.
> 
> It has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) so it can absorb nutrients and release them over time, so water column fertilization is required.




does it not make a right mess though, i have images of it clouding everywhere and clumping


----------



## Jack middleton

only if it isn't capped, I've capped mine and I'm having brilliant results.

I believe that if its baked its safe to use it on its own, don't quote me on it though.


----------



## squiggley

It depends on which type you use.

I have use Tescos value cat litter which turns to soft clay when water is added, best used in tank that you won't be doing a lot of plant moving as it makes a hellava mess. But had great results with it beneath a deep layer of sand.

Tescos also do a cat litter that is similar looking to akadama but smaller but is scented so needs to be washed thoroughly.


----------



## foxfish

Jack middleton said:
			
		

> I use it and I'm not going to pay for other substrates again! It's just as good IMO.
> 
> It has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) so it can absorb nutrients and release them over time, so water column fertilization is required.


Interesting but I dont quite understand - the cat liter can absorb nutrients from where?
Would this be excess nutrients from liquid or powder fertilisation?
Even then, why would this be comparable to a substrate that already contains the appropriate nutrients?


----------



## Jack middleton

foxfish said:
			
		

> Jack middleton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use it and I'm not going to pay for other substrates again! It's just as good IMO.
> 
> It has a high CEC (cation exchange capacity) so it can absorb nutrients and release them over time, so water column fertilization is required.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting but I dont quite understand - the cat liter can absorb nutrients from where?
> Would this be excess nutrients from liquid or powder fertilisation?
> Even then, why would this be comparable to a substrate that already contains the appropriate nutrients?
Click to expand...


The cat litter absorbs nutrients from the water column, so any fish waste, fertilisers etc.

The only reason I use it over nutrient rich substrates like ADA or naturesoil is because of the price.


----------



## foxfish

Do you think it would be feasible to DIY some nutrients into the litter?


----------



## Jack middleton

yep, I added a 10 tea spoons of Kno3, 3 teaspoons of KH2PO4 and 3 teaspoons of traces into my mix and then capped with sand, it seems to be working!


----------



## Jon1706

Hi all, I was wondering if you could clear a few things up for me, im going to have to move my tank again shortly thanks to the landlord ad his way of plastering skills ( dont ask   ) but I've been thinking while I take my tank down again    I was going to add some cat litter ie the Tescos value cat litter one this seems to be the one everyone likes. I wanted to check is it the Tescos value cat litter in the red bag or the blue bag as my local Tesco sell two different kinds. And what can you use to stop the cat litter mixing with the sand at the front and sides of the tank. Also is it safe to use root tabs with it, I have TPN+ tabs Also how deep dose the capping have to be At the mo I've got a rought capping of 5 mm to 2 mm in my tank. 
Jon


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
If you want to add some slow released nutrients to your cat litter, I'd buy a kilo of "Osmocote" for about Â£6. 
<http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=260&pf_id=PP0051A>.

The best formulation, for those who are serious about these things, would probably be:
<http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/osmocote-exact-protect.html>

There is also now "Osmoform" which might be slightly better, <http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/osmoform.html> I've not tried this.

You could also use these with a low CEC substrate, where you wouldn't want to use straight KNO3 (the K and N would become instantly available).

Even cheaper is "Growmore" - 3Kg for Â£5. http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=260&pf_id=CF0004D. 

Scott's also do slow release trace elements <http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/micromax.html>. I haven't used these, but unless one of the trace elements becomes soluble in toxic amounts (for fish or shrimps, not plants) they should be pretty good as well.

cheers Darrel


----------



## squiggley

I'm just about to rescape my Osaka 155l using tescos leightweight litter

This how its packaged now






Closeup




Colorwise




It is heavily scented and does take quite a bit of washing.

Â£2.95 for 10 litres

Londis do a similar product that isn't scented but is Â£2.99 for 6 litres


----------



## Polly

I use that - it's brilliant stuff!   Have three tanks planted with it and growing nicely   

Regarding washing it, I washed it in a sieve, made it easier to rinse out the smell.   Didn't bother the fish at all so must have worked


----------



## CeeJay

Hi all

Has anyone successfully used this without capping it?
I'm about to rescape one of my low techs and I like the colour of this stuff, (looks a bit like my hi tech substrate and that was over Â£100 for a 180l   ) so any advice would be appreciated. 
In this tank I only have 'mid' and 'upper' level fish, so the fish will not be disturbing it.
For the price, I might just give this stuff a try


----------



## squiggley

I'm using it uncapped and having no problems, holds plants down well and looks good


----------



## CeeJay

Thanks squiggly, that's great news.
Just went and got some this morning, seems to take a fair bit of rinsing, but if I can get the substrate to rescape my 95l for Â£6 (for 2 bags), I'm well chuffed   .
Thanks.


----------



## Polly

I also use it uncapped - it holds the plants better than gravel and looks great      I found planting into it was easier than small or large pea gravel, or fine or coarse sands, very happy with the way it looks and with plant growth


----------



## Jon1706

Hi all i've been caught between using this and Akadama. In the end i've gone with the cat litter, But i'm going to try something different which as been done with the Akadama, but before i do i wanted to know if it was ok to do it with cat litter. What i want to do is the following:
1th, Sphagnum Moss Peat
2nd, Miracle Grow tabs ( broken ones or whole ones not sure yet )
3rd, cat litter, Mulm and actived carbon from my filter (The reason why I want to use it is because it should have a nice layer of bacteria growing on it)
4th, cat litter
5th, The play sand which is in the tank now.
The thing is i'm not sure on how deep the sand capping needs to be i've read from a inch to 3 inch  :?:   Also can you soak the cat littler for a few days or is it ok to wash it and put it in then the fish after you finished and filled the tank again ? Also is it safe for frogs as i have two of them :?:  Tank specs Are a 60l tank , with low light 0.75 wpg (1 15w T8 Arcadia Orignal Tropical lamp,+T8 Arcadia reflector ), I use  easy carbo 2ml a day  and profito 1ml aday (wasnt sure if i could up the levels of profito usin the cat litter i'v been given a new bottle off TPN+ liquid (xmas gift).I do a  20% water change every week.
Any infoe be great ty 
Jon


----------



## CeeJay

Hi all

Had this in my low tech for 2 months now and no plant problems to report   .
Just a quick question. 
Does anyone have any shrimp in their set ups with this stuff?


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

As mentioned in the Akadama thread, I use cat litter to grow bonsai and plants in... I have planted identical seedlings in this and potting compost and the growth was better... Root structure seems to be better, too... I use it un-rinsed and straight from the bag...

Now in a dilemma as to what to use in the new tank... This or Akadama... May use this as an excuse to get to small tanks to try if out on...

For those interested: http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm


----------



## Nos

CeeJay said:
			
		

> Hi all
> Does anyone have any shrimp in their set ups with this stuff?


Have a small 20l tank with low grade CRS and RCS for a month now and they are doing fine.


----------



## CeeJay

Hi all.

Thanks Nos. That makes life easier for me   
Just setting a up a low tech for shrimp and I had planned to use this stuff.
Thanks


----------



## Jon1706

hI everyone. I am just washing my cat litter to use in my setup i was wondering how you know it as been washed thought. I have left it  soak for 24 hours and now i am washing thought a small sive. When the water comes thought the sive after two mins it looks clean, so i've been placing this in to a clean bucket. Now i've just filled the bucket of water up and it as gone a light brown colour, which as got me wondering if is clean or needs more washing. Oh i forgot to say im washing it out side in cold water with my hose pipe gun set on shower. Any info on this be great ty


----------



## Polly

To be honest, you could carry on washing it for days - like many substrates.   I just washed it until it ran clear, then put it in the bucket.   After planting up I filled the tank carefully as usual, was only slightly cloudy and it cleared in next to no time.  I was using mostly mature water though, as I only changed the substrate .

I found that the water became crystal clear far quicker with Tesco Lightweight Cat litter than any other substrate I've used.  Even when setting up from scatch it was crystal by the next day.

If you have a problem with it clearing, add some mature tank water and fliter over filter floss for a day.

By the way, the three tanks have now been working for over a year and are great, semi-Walstad style, I haven't changed the water for 6 months and both fish and inverts are fine, plants are fine.  Water is always crystal clear.


----------



## Polly

Forgot to post this a while ago.  I found while researching cat litter for Aquarium use

http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm

Hope you find it as interesting as I did


----------



## pauld

how much is tescos cat litter per bag and how many kilos in a bag ?


----------



## alan_uk

i have now decided i am going to use this in place of florabase soil 

it will be going in to my new 3ft tank which should be quite heavily planted and house discus x2 neons and harlequins and shrimp   

i will let you all know how i get on  

tesco in the morning lol


----------



## Nelson

found this 
http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1046.html

http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1045.html

i have contacted them and its the same as cat litter but not scented.


----------



## alan_uk

well i went to tesco and bought some of the cat litter rinsed it out for about an hour until the odour dissapeared and poured it in planted up filled up and put my harlequins neons amano shrimp and crs in there oh and my sae

and 4 days later everything is great no problems with fish or anything else only trouble im having is keeping the blyxa in the substrate :S

anyway here is some pics 












and this plant whatever it is has took 3 days to get from about 4" to this height its growing very quickly 
anyone shed any light on what its called


----------



## Nelson

that looks great   .
are you going to start a journal   .


----------



## alan_uk

cheers i would of but ive just bought a 3'x18"x18" and am ripping this down and starting a new with that


----------



## Polly

Looking very good


----------



## Katch

Just FYI;

Not sure what the packaging looks like on the Tesco litter at the moment, they may have changed it, either way I found it hard to find.

I eventually settled on Sophisticat Pink (stocked at Pets @ home among others)





Same as Tesco's - has odour control but the smell of it dissipated after about 10 mins of rinsing. I have this in my 29 Litre capped with Argos playsand and black gravel. Fish were added very soon after filling (filter already cycled) - absolutely no issues with 8 Celestial Pearl Danios and a couple of Amano Shrimp.


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

nelson said:
			
		

> found this
> http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1046.html
> 
> http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1045.html
> 
> i have contacted them and its the same as cat litter but not scented.



Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had tried this product yet? If not, I will take the plunge and be the guinea pig.

Cheers,

Kosh


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

Using Tesco cat litter in the new tank. I like the appearance, but the plants come out very easily if you touch them, and when you try and replant you end up pulling half of the tank out


----------



## Radik

Kosh42-EFG said:
			
		

> nelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> found this
> http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1046.html
> 
> http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/moler-clay-bo ... -1045.html
> 
> i have contacted them and its the same as cat litter but not scented.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Just wondered if anyone had tried this product yet? If not, I will take the plunge and be the guinea pig.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Kosh
Click to expand...


It is interesting. Do you think when covered by some gravel it would over time float above? I assume it is lighter than  gravel.


----------



## andyhorne28

hi juz wanted to say that i used the tesco clay stuff and it really works i can't believe it, i capped it with gravel and put shrimps in after one week (using a dirty filter from another tank) with no chemistry probs at all not bad for £3 or £4 mental! great advise on here
thanks
Andy


----------



## Lord_Lucan

Are we saying that cat litter is to be used in conjuction with say ADA Aquasoil or simply on its own?


----------



## foxfish

Your choice!
Cat liter can be used as an inert substrate & works very well as long as you fertilise the water with enough nutrients - for instance  using the estimated index method.


----------



## peaches

Please could you clarify which cat litters are safe to use with any fish?  Are the scented ones really OK if you rinse them?  What ingredients should I be looking for on the cat litter?  I did notice that tesco do about 10 different types of cat litter and I felt really confused about which to buy.  I dont mind using other supermarkets, either!  

I want to set up a tank fairly quickly which I will plant but I could do with the tank space due to extra mollie and platy fry.  My current tank has tetra aqua complete and im not really impressed.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
It is the "non-clumping lightweight cat litter" you want, it is pink in colour and somewhere on the bag should say "100% Moler clay" or "diatomaceous earth". You need to wash it for a long time to get rid of the smell.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

I've used this one in a temporary tank, and am so impressed I plan to use it in my new 3 x 2 x 2 as well:


----------



## peaches

Thank you.  So it just needs washing like you would wash any new gravel?


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

Until it doesn't smell any more and runs clear... Where it is fairly light it is easy to wash out of the bucket if you get too vigorous with the hose, though...


----------



## Alastair

Thats exactly the same stuff i use in my 5ft. only needed 5 bags and at a total of 15 pound it saved me a fortune. it does need a fair bit of rinsing and so far hasnt had any affect on my fish what so ever. just put some newspaper or a plate over it when your filling as it still gives off a little dust. its great stuff IMO and wont use anything else now. 

Alastair


----------



## Polly

The one pictured above is the one I've used.

The tanks have been running for about 2 years now, no water changes in the last year !!     just top-ups - plenty of plants - El Naturel      

The fish and plants are fine   

The only thing I'd change in my largest tank is that I wouldn't put in a layer of soil in first.   I put straight cat litter in the other tanks and have had few less trouble with Algae.   The large tank, I followed the Walstad idea and put in potting soil first.   This means if I want to change things round or remove a plant it gets very messy  :?         

Couldn't do it last year as I broke my wrist, but may get round to it soon.   It'll be a complete strip down and replant with new cat litter substrate - as it's so cheap and works so well LOL


----------



## sr20det

I think i will be using this.

Was going to cap it, but reading through the posts, its just as good without, so wont bother I think.


----------



## Johno2090

After using cat litter in my previous tank (25 gal) I can tell you there are various problems with it. The biggest is that it is very light! A tank with the recommended 10x turnover won't keep gradients very long and will most likely end up flat. This goes for Any bottom feeders too. Bah brb work calls

 Ok back! So yeah bottom feeders like to stir it all up! It's great for growing plants but you will have to constantly replant them and if you cap it (I capped with sand eventually) it works it's way to the top very quickly!

All in all for £3 a bag it's great as a cheap alternative but just be aware of how light it is.


----------



## CeeJay

Hi all

I agree with Johno2090, it is very light. 
If you want to maintain a gradient long term, I used some cut down plastic lawn edging under it (standing upright of course   ) to prevent any landslides.
Works well.


----------



## Polly

Can't say I've had to replant much ???    Once the plants have been placed they root and stay   

In fact uprooting them is going to be a major job, which is why I'll do a strip down in the main tank.   Potting soil coming up everywhere will not be pretty       I found that this stuff keeps plants in better than fine or coarse sand or small gravel.

As far as gradients is concerned, even the largest size pea gravel that I have used in the past has eventually flattened out.  I suppose that's what I get for keeping large fancy goldfish with pea gravel and Cories in the tropical tanks


----------



## lil-lynx

> If you want to add some slow released nutrients to your cat litter, I'd buy a kilo of "Osmocote" for about Â£6.
> <http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=260&pf_id=PP0051A>.



Could you still do this with it, uncapped ?


----------



## Alastair

lil-lynx said:
			
		

> If you want to add some slow released nutrients to your cat litter, I'd buy a kilo of "Osmocote" for about Â£6.
> <http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/product.asp?dept_id=260&pf_id=PP0051A>.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you still do this with it, uncapped ?
Click to expand...


Yep. You don't need to cap the cat litter at all. Just put a little bit of the osmocote down, then cover with cat litter. My cat litter isn't capped either. I have aquabasis under mine though bit there is a few journals on here where people have used tesco cat litter with osmo under


----------



## lil-lynx

I have some aquabasis as well great stuff , how are you finding yours as to , growth , cloudyness?
I was also tempted to put aquabasis, osmocote, and some dry ferts like trace... will all this be to much ?


----------



## Alastair

I got an initial cloudiness from the cat litter when first filled, and then a bit when I'd started planting, but other than that it was fine. I couldn't really comment on how good the aquabasis is as I've also just started co2 injection and EI dosing so the difference in growth rate could be down to all 3. I didn't bother with osmocote or adding dry ferts to substrate as the cat litter being clay etc will absorb some of the excess nutrients that the plants don't absorb anyway. 
I did notice a little clouding when I disturbed the aquabasis too much once but has been fine since. Just pack your filter with floss for first few weeks but I'd say cat litter is definitely worth all of the £2.78 a bag ha ha ;0)


----------



## niknaksky

Could you use some kind of netting to seperate the cat litter and sand ?

Just wondering because I am doing a 6x2x2 soon and would like to try the cat litter but dont want it mixing with the sand


----------



## Derek Tweedie

Just read through all of these posts and I'm quite surprised  that we can you use cat litter. Think I'll be getting some for my next tank setup. Have a 30l tank lying empty which I'm gonna make low tech in the next few weeks so watch this space.


----------



## danmil3s

ive been using it for 8ish weeks now it starts of really light weight but after 3  or 4 weeks seems to get heavier so might be worth soaking it in a bucket


----------



## tovtm

of I was to use this I would be using EI in my 120ltr tank but have a 1200lh filter with spray bar right across the back glass would this push and ramp the litter up so become shallow at the front glass and all pushed to the back?

could i put a netting divider in the tank and pour the littler into the half of the tank with no fish the do the same for the other half? or would this cause too much clouding and problems fr the fish? also anyone know roughly how many bags for 1-1.5" substrate for 4'x12" tank I calculated 14ltrs buydont know how much the bags cover


----------



## Alastair

I used 5 bags for my 5 ft but to give me a deep substrate. To be safe I'd get 2 or 3 bags, 10 litres each so you dont end up with not enough. Just short of 9 pound so not expensive. With trying to change it over, try to remove as much of the previous substrate but still leave some in for bacteria. Then do a bloody big water change after then another a day or two after that aswell. It should be fine with that filter. I doubt it will get blown about. I run two fx5s through spray bars and it stays pretty much still unless my corys really shift it.


----------



## tovtm

perfect  I have sand substrate at the moment so say just leave 1cm on bottom? the litter over the top or leave more? you say make sure I do big WC is this because it will lower the pc because o the clay?


----------



## Alastair

No no, just with you disturbing the tank with such a drastic substrate change, you'll be stirring up allsorts with the change over plus there won't be as much bacteria on the litter.,just for a week do a water change every 2 days or something that's all


----------



## tovtm

ohh right with you now will go shopping tonight


----------



## Alastair

Make sure you buy the right stuff, it's in a cream and pink bag


----------



## tovtm

yep seen the pictures so along as there in stock il be ok


----------



## maanse

Ive just made the switch to cat litter and i am impressed with the look of the litter so far, the only problem is i topped mine with sand.... over night quite a lot has changed, there is so much cat litter now on top of the sand that it looks horrible......

What to do now....


----------



## GHNelson

What to do now....
Buy a cheap metal sieve and get sieving  
hoggie


----------



## chilled84

Kosh42-EFG said:
			
		

> I've used this one in a temporary tank, and am so impressed I plan to use it in my new 3 x 2 x 2 as well:



I must say this is great stuff and im bulk buying it very soon for my new upcomeing scape.


----------



## Jaap

1. I guess it would be better to use it uncapped instead of capping it with sand since if it comes on top of the sand then it will look bad?

2. This is considered as good substrate because it is porous and it will absorb any extra nutrients the plants will not use? 

3. If yes, when does it absorb nutrients and when does it release them?  

4. Doe it release the nutrients in the water column or to the roots of plants only?


----------



## Alastair

I presume it will work similar to the expensive substrates in the the absorbed nutrients are available for the roots but not to such an extent because Things like aqua soil etc are rich in nutrients already. I love using that cat litter it's just a Shame they can't make the stuff in black lol


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
Yes, you can't cap it with sand, it is much too light and always ends up on top. I think it looks OK on its own. Calcined substrates are always likely to be reddish, because most sediments contain Iron (Fe), and when you heat them the iron it is oxidised to Iron III oxide (Fe2O3), the hydrated form of which is better known as "rust".

The characteristic that these substrates have in common is the ability to exchange positively charged ions (Mg2+, K+ etc.), expressed as their "Cation Exchange Capacity" (CEC), usually a substance with a high CEC will also have a high Anion Exchange Capacity (AEC), exchanging ions like NO3-, PO4- etc as well.

In the case of cat litter it is "Moler clay", an impure form of "Diatomaceous earth", the fossil remnants of marine diatoms, mixed with bentonite clays (from volcanic ash).  The typical chemical composition for Diatomaceous Earth is about 80 to 90% silica, 2 to 4% alumina (attributed mostly to clay minerals), 0.5 to 2% iron oxide and a CEC approx. 25 - 30 meq/100g.  <http://www.inex.fi/english/company/supplier/damolin.php>. The bentonite is a Kaolonite 1:1 montmorillonite clay 
	

	
	
		
		



		
		
	


	



which will have a very high CEC (aprox. 100 meq/100g). These values will be reduced by heating, but as the cat litter is calcined at a lowish temperature it should retain a reasonable CEC.

The nutrients held by the exchange sites will so some extent mirror the ions in solution, so if you soak the cat litter in a dilute solution of potassium nitrate (KNO3), the exchange sites will mainly be occupied by K+ and NO3- ions.
All ions have to be in solution before the plant can take them up, but the water in the substrate will be constantly being mixed with the water in the water column, so it really doesn't matter whether you add the nutrient to the water column or substrate.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Polly

If you want a demonstration of how much iron there is in this cat litter, try dropping an algae magnet in the tank - then try to remove the cat litter stuck to it     Actually I've tried dropping the magnet in a dry bag-  full and the same happens  

LOVE the stuff, but I'd love it even more if it came in black too


----------



## Alastair

Polly said:
			
		

> If you want a demonstration of how much iron there is in this cat litter, try dropping an algae magnet in the tank - then try to remove the cat litter stuck to it     Actually I've tried dropping the magnet in a dry bag-  full and the same happens
> 
> LOVE the stuff, but I'd love it even more if it came in black too


 Me too, I love it. Black would be good.


----------



## Gfish

I have a recently scaped tank that I'm really loving the look of with this reddy cat litter substrate.
Having never used anything other than playsand or pool filter sand, this stuff seems extremely light! And difficult to root small plants into. 
Are commercial fertilised substrates heavier???

For me this is cat litter's only downside.


----------



## Alastair

I found exactly the same problem, even helferi was a bit of a pain to stay down. Gave up with glosso and hc. Hair grass does great in it though. Having corys with this doesn't help. Overall though I'm really impressed with it for the price. Might try gloss again soon. 
Looking at things like aqua soil that looks heavier to me, but saying that it had the powrsand for it's top layer so perfect for small plants. I think I've read before people finding the columbo stuff relatively light too.


----------



## andy-mu

This is an interesting article. I think I might be making the switch. My hc does stay down with coarse gravel. Hopefully will work OK with this. Very cheap and results appear to speak for themselves


----------



## Alastair

andy-mu said:
			
		

> This is an interesting article. I think I might be making the switch. My hc does stay down with coarse gravel. Hopefully will work OK with this. Very cheap and results appear to speak for themselves



Agree with the being cheap, I did my whole 5 foot tank for just short of 15 pound. Bargain. I've even ordered more bags for future need :0)


----------



## Gfish

Alistair,

Which is the right name for hairgrass? I'd like shorter rather than longer. Is it Eleocharis parvula or acicularis ??
Have you or anyone here tried dwarf sagitaria planted in cat litter? I'm trying to decide which to finish off this tank with


I have a personal feeling that sagitaria would look best, but I can't get my hands on it so I'm up for suggestions.

Cheers

Gavin


----------



## Alastair

Gfish said:
			
		

> Alistair,
> 
> Which is the right name for hairgrass? I'd like shorter rather than longer. Is it Eleocharis parvula or acicularis ??
> Have you or anyone here tried dwarf sagitaria planted in cat litter? I'm trying to decide which to finish off this tank with
> 
> 
> I have a personal feeling that sagitaria would look best, but I can't get my hands on it so I'm up for suggestions.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gavin



Hi Gavin, I used e.parvula, gave it a haircut before planting and it stayed very short. Your going to hate me now but I've just given away about 15 plants of the saggitaria. It was growing great in my tank with the cat litter. After about two weeks of being planted it grew runners and new plants very quick. I'm going to be rescaping things in my tank tomorrow so if I have some left over I'll gladly pop it out to you in the post mate. S.subulata was the one I've got. Purchased it from TGM.


----------



## Gfish

Just my luck! 
If you have any left I'd really appreciate that, thank you.
Do you agree this would look better in the foreground than hairgrass?
Or should I fill in the gaps of sagitarius with hairgrass??? Hmmm


----------



## spyder

Just finished rinsing through 2 bags of this for my Rio 125. I can still smell the perfume in it in the tank. While rinsing I noticed how light it is. I hope planting and filling goes smoothly but dreading turning the filter on.


----------



## PeteA

Strange question, but if the general point of using cat litter is to retain nutrients, would it work having a layer of litter, some kind of fine plastic mesh and then substrate of some kind (gravel etc)?  Just figuring out if this would be feasible in a new tank I've purchased


----------



## Alastair

The perfume smell had no adverse effects on my fish or anything. It went away after s couple of days but I did pop some carbon in first time though. 
The mesh idea would work yes, but if the gravel on top is bigger I'd not bother


----------



## Polly

I recently took out the substrate in my Rio 125 - soil underneath Cat Litter.    The soil was a nuisance when trying to plant/reposition/remove plants and just wasn't working for me.    Having two other tanks with only cat litter substrate I could see how much better they were.    All had been running for 2 years so plenty of time to judge.

There's no problem with the Cat litter and filter, any cloudiness will clear in record time and if you've put in some mulm from another tank it'll all settle really quickly     Plants stay planted surprisingly well despite my Cories disturbing them, the cat litter holds them firm without damaging the delicate roots and stems.


----------



## JenCliBee

Definitely seems like this is worth a bash, has anybody tried any other brands?.... i'm very lucky to be able to go to a business pet wholesaler and they do about 50-60 types of cat litter (all brands, all sizes) and price would be cheaper for me to get the larger sacks than a single tesco bag that everybody seems to be using. Obviously they dont do tesco brand so what others could be a consideration?.


The sophisticat that somebody mentioned earlier is available... anybody else used this?... if so, what did you think about it?


Thanks


----------



## Gfish

I've read here some mention of folk keeping corys in tanks with cat litter substrate. Has anyone noticed any damage to their barbules? I think that's the right word lol
I've always been conscious of putting corydoras onto a sharp substrate, I've only ever kept them on sand so far.
I do have 5 Arcuatus  in a cube tank I'd like to pop into the 3ft. Should they stay or should they go now?????


----------



## Alastair

Gfish said:
			
		

> I've read here some mention of folk keeping corys in tanks with cat litter substrate. Has anyone noticed any damage to their barbules? I think that's the right word lol
> I've always been conscious of putting corydoras onto a sharp substrate, I've only ever kept them on sand so far.
> I do have 5 Arcuatus  in a cube tank I'd like to pop into the 3ft. Should they stay or should they go now?????


I've got corys in with mine and it's not done anything to there barbels. With it being relatively light it moves slightly when there sifting. It will be fine mate.


----------



## Gfish

Cool. And they don't uproot things??


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


> i'm very lucky to be able to go to a business pet wholesaler and they do about 50-60 types of cat litter (all brands, all sizes) and price would be cheaper for me to get the larger sacks than a single tesco bag that everybody seems to be using. Obviously they dont do tesco brand so what others could be a consideration?.


 You would need to look through them for any that say "non clumping" and "moler clay".

There is actually an option for buying bulk amounts of non-perfumed "moler clay". It is sold as granules for mopping up oil spills etc. in 30 litre bags.  http://www.fentex.co.uk/absorbent-granules.html they are the "NEW SAFETY TREAD -Premium Granules".

cheers Darrel


----------



## JenCliBee

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> i'm very lucky to be able to go to a business pet wholesaler and they do about 50-60 types of cat litter (all brands, all sizes) and price would be cheaper for me to get the larger sacks than a single tesco bag that everybody seems to be using. Obviously they dont do tesco brand so what others could be a consideration?.
> 
> 
> 
> You would need to look through them for any that say "non clumping" and "moler clay".
> 
> There is actually an option for buying bulk amounts of non-perfumed "moler clay". It is sold as granules for mopping up oil spills etc. in 30 litre bags.  http://www.fentex.co.uk/absorbent-granules.html they are the "NEW SAFETY TREAD -Premium Granules".
> 
> cheers Darrel
Click to expand...



Cheers DW.... well the sophisticat (pink) litter states this....



> "Lightweight Non-Clumping Pink Cat Litter 30Ltr by Sophisticat is an ideal non-clumping cat litter made from Danish molar clay"



and 



> "Its unique pink colour is due to the calcination process; a thermal treatment during manufacture, which helps add to the super absorbency of the litter."



So i presume this would be fine to use aslong as it is washed thoroughly?


There's another by the same company which is non clumping aswell but it states...



> Sophisticat is a lightweight cat litter made from high quality Spanish Sepiolite, a naturally occurring absorbent mineral.



This also non clumping but just curious to if this would be safe?... it isn't scented from what i tell either.

Link to that one is....

http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/produc ... CMP177.htm.


Thanks again DW


----------



## Polly

Sepiolite is white/light grey and would not do the same job, it's baked but not at the high temperature that the pink clay is baked to which changes the structure, it's the 'pink' stuff you need     Sepiolite would break down into sludge very quickly


----------



## JenCliBee

Polly said:
			
		

> Sepiolite is white/light grey and would not do the same job, it's baked but not at the high temperature that the pink clay is baked to which changes the structure, it's the 'pink' stuff you need     Sepiolite would break down into sludge very quickly




Thanks for that .... looks like im off to the wholesalers then for some sophistiCAT for my FISH tank.... that seems so wrong on so many levels ..haha.


Thanks again Polly and DW


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


> Sepiolite would break down into sludge very quickly


 Just in the spirit of experimentation I tried both this and the Fuller's Earth based clumping cat litter, and they did indeed form a horrible sludgy mess. 

Undaunted I tried the white Sepiolite based litter again in potting compost for terrestrial plants, and it still breaks down fairly rapidly. It might be useful in small amounts as a slow release magnesium source (it is a magnesium silicate mineral) and it also has some CEC, but not very much (10-15 meq/100g).

cheers Darrel


----------



## foxfish

I think that sophisticat has a larger grain size than the Tesco cat litter?


----------



## JenCliBee

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> Sepiolite would break down into sludge very quickly
> 
> 
> 
> Just in the spirit of experimentation I tried both this and the Fuller's Earth based clumping cat litter, and they did indeed form a horrible sludgy mess.
> 
> Undaunted I tried the white Sepiolite based litter again in potting compost for terrestrial plants, and it still breaks down fairly rapidly. It might be useful in small amounts as a slow release magnesium source (it is a magnesium silicate mineral) and it also has some CEC, but not very much (10-15 meq/100g).
> 
> cheers Darrel
Click to expand...



Cheers for confirming mate, i know to give that one a miss lol   .





> I think that sophisticat has a larger grain size than the Tesco cat litter?



Would this be a bad thing?.... i use this cat litter for my cats but ive never used the tesco litter that's been recommended so i really dont know the size difference... but yes the size can be reasonably big in sophisticat.


----------



## foxfish

I guess that depends on the scale of the tank, but I personally preferred the smaller size when I used it.
I found that the bigger grain size was not as easy to push the plants into.


----------



## Polly

About 10 years ago I tried Sepiolite in shallow pots in the aquarium after reading an article about clay helping roots to establish and being good for them blah blah...   Big mistake - HUGE!   I ended up with rotting roots and plant that just melted at the bottom.   The smell when I took the pots out was unbelievable  :silent: 

Luckily I'd only tried a couple of pots and the rest of the tank was fine   

OK there it is, my dirty little secret is out       I make mistakes so others don't have to


----------



## PeteA

So does cat litter break down and need to be replaced after a number of years then?


----------



## JenCliBee

PeteA said:
			
		

> So does cat litter break down and need to be replaced after a number of years then?




I presume it would break down like akadama and eco complete would after a certain time period.... but most dont usually keep a fully planted tank for years so i doubt if anybody would have had problems to that extent.


----------



## foxfish

I dont think the baked type will break down even after several years, I know of koi ponds that have had baked clay granules in the filter sytems for over 20 years.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


> I dont think the baked type will break down even after several years, I know of koi ponds that have had baked clay granules in the filter sytems for over 20 years.


I'm pretty sure that is the answer, the balance is between how hot you fire the clay and how much CEC you retain.

A really hot calcining treatment will make the clay physically stable (like pottery), but chemically inert. A low firing temperature will retain CEC, but have less physical stability. I think the cat litter is more towards the pottery end and should remain fairly stable.

cheers Darrel


----------



## MrLarner

im a newbie to the cat litter as substrate, but will be using it very soon, mixed together with caribsea eco complete live planted, reason im mixing it is because i ran out of eco complete and my depth is only about 1 and half inches, so im planning on getting some cat litter and mixing it together, or even just leaving a deep layer of cat litter on the top of the eco complete.
does this sound ok to you guys? or would the cat litter be better off underneath the eco complete?
also, the only cat litters i have easy access to are....
thomas cat litter and catsan.
is either of these ok? or can i simply just use any cat litter???


----------



## Alastair

They need to be a moler clay of some sort. The reason why most use the tesco one is that unlike a lot of cat litter it doesn't turn to mush shortly after. I Cant find any info on the specifics of the Thomas one.


----------



## MrLarner

this is where im stuck, because i cant find any info on the thomas brand.
if i could it would be great as i have bags of it stocked up for the cats.
so the misses wouldnt mind me taking half a bags worth.
I did read something about thomas clay cat litter.
but i wouldnt know how it'll be in the tank and i dont want to risk it until i've got the all clear from someone.


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Quick question my litter loving friends.

Mixing ADA substrate with cat litter? ADA for the initial nutrient supply and cat litter for long term nutrient supply due to it's high CEC?

Good idea? Obviously only needed for a long term scape.


----------



## ceg4048

ADA Amazonia is a calcined clay and has a high CEC, so it has just as much long term storage capacity as the litter and has fairly decent structural stability. If you already have Amazonia why bother? if you don't have Amazonia then you can fortify the litter with Osmocote or whatever NPK product is convenient.

Cheers,


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Doh! I was under the impression Amazonia was low CEC. Scrap that idea then!


----------



## Jaap

I also have access to Thomas Cat Litter but I don't know if it is clay based and if it has a high CEC. Anyone knows?


----------



## MrLarner

Jaap if you manage to find any info on it, will you send me a PM with the info....
i've been hunting around trying to find out if its high CEC but i cant find out,
i do know its Clay based, i read an article a few days ago saying its clay based and it dont clump up.
my misses uses it for the cats so i took some last week and put it in water and i've left it over this week and so far it looks good, has not clumped at all.
it let off alot of cloudy water at first, but every day i have changed the water and its now crystal clear and looks really good.
just need to find out if its high CEC.


----------



## Jaap

Someone?Anyone? Does Thomas cat litter have a high CEC?


----------



## foxfish

If it is a sort of pinky brown colour & very hard then it could be a baked clay but if it is White a crumbles then no....


----------



## Jaap

It is like small pieces of gray gravel...


----------



## MrLarner

Jaap said:
			
		

> It is like small pieces of gray gravel...



i've just washed a whole bag worth of thomas cat litter and yes its small greyish looking coloured, but i bought a 8litre bag and im so surprised at how much im left with after giving it a good wash.

after soaking it for 4 hours, i then mixed it all up and continued to rinse it with my hands over the bath tub and it let of loads of cloudy/muddy sort of water, abit like wet sand.
but i have managed to rinse it all off and will be attempting to put it in later tonight.
wish me luck


----------



## foxfish

I came across a bag of Thomas cat litter the other day & can tell you it is not made in the same way as sophisticat or Tesco cat litter.
It is a lot softer, I managed to crush some in my hand & bite down on it too where as the others are very hard grains.


----------



## Polly

I really would NOT recommend using Thomas Cat Litter in the Aquarium.   Even if it has kept it's shape after washing, it will very quickly turn to sludge of the kind I described earlier     It's virtually the same product that I experimented with years ago in pots in the aquarium, rotting plants and foul smelling sludge were the result  

If you can't get hold of Tesco Cat litter, try to get hold of Sophisticat Cat Litter 

If you look on the PAH website it also tells you that the contents of the Cat San litter are either Wood (in the natural wood one) or Lime and silica sand in the Hygiene Litter


----------



## Radik

I ordered Moler Clay Shonin Grade 2-5mm 20L for 8,- today. I am curious how how it will look. It is half price of akadama and cheaper than most cat litters and not scented. Also when wet it should get darker color than akadama so will see. In worst case I will use it as cheap litter for my cat.


----------



## foxfish

And what is that exactly?
 I tried to google  "Clay Shonin Grade 2-5mm 20L for 8" with no luck!


----------



## hinch

I loaded up on the  tesco litter the other week (see my journal etc for pictures) the only issue I have with it really is its possibly too light. the top layer is being blown around all over the place by my little internal pump (ehiem eccoball smallest they do) even with the spray bar pointing up and not down.  the litter just doesn't seem to carry much weight once submerged but I'm hoping that roots will spread and clump it together.


----------



## Radik

here you go http://www.bonsai-uk.co.uk/moler-clay-s ... p-381.html. It looks very pinkish when dry but when wet it changes color to brown at least what I googled. Never seen it in real before.


----------



## cheebs

Very interesting Radik.

Please could you post some pics (wet and dry) when you get it?


----------



## Radik

Yes once I get it I can do that + compare with ADA grain size and color.


----------



## Radik

OK I've got moler clay today. 20liters weight 10kg. Grain is smaller than ADA Amazonia normal size. Weight of Ada vs Moler is about same because moler is totally dry but amazonia is slightly wet. Ratio of small grain vs large is in favor of small grain. If you want to sieve it you get 80% 2-3mm grain. Also Ada smells after fresh earth or dirt, while Mmoler is odorless. You have to wash it as it has slight dust on it but not much and it is not crumbling between fingers as Amazonia. General feeling is very good for such cheap substrate.

Now when dry color is ugly pink but when wet color is something between Ada Malaya/Africana and actually feels very nice. I am going to setup one nano and one 45L with it for shrimps.

See pictures worth more than 1000 words.

Moler Dry, Wet, Ada Amazonia




2nd pic. have more accurate colors


----------



## hinch

that looks identical in colour to the tesco cat litter


----------



## Radik

Yes tesco cat litter is moller clay


----------



## spyder

Looks good will go this route for the next big one. 

Just planted my 125 with Tesco's kitty litter and as I was slowly filling whilst planting it felt like I was planting in quicksand but everything stayed in place pretty well. I was worried about it's lightness but it does a good job.

3 thumbs up


----------



## cheebs

Thanks for that Radik.


----------



## Quetzalcoatl

Radik. Does the Molar clay feel any heavier than the cat litter. Is it more stable when submerged? I`m looking for cheaper alternatives to ADA, I experimented with Tesco cat litter in a corner of my tank but was concerned about it being too lightweight for me to risk using in a Iwagumi set up! 

Many thanks!


----------



## Radik

It is same weight as Tesco cat liter as it is from same source. It is not much lighter than Ada so you should not have problems.


----------



## Quetzalcoatl

Cool thanks.


----------



## Robthekop

I've used the Tesco one, however would now like to dress it off with sand as I've noticed I deterioration on my Sterbais barbels compared to the sterbai I have in my breeding tanks with sand. Could it be the coarseness of the cat litter or something else??? What gravel tidy do you reccomend to to stop the sand settling thru?


----------



## Radik

Your sand will end up on the bottom and litter on the top. Anything heavier will end up on the bottom.


----------



## lawrencezarb

What if I cap it with gravel, would that end up at the bottom?


----------



## roadmaster

I placed a nylon mesh screen over top of topsoil before capping with sand,  and this seems to keep sand on top and less mess when re-planting.
Ideally,I should keep my hands out of the tank after planting in soil tanks but it is hard for me sometimes.


----------



## Antipofish

Alastair said:
			
		

> I presume it will work similar to the expensive substrates in the the absorbed nutrients are available for the roots but not to such an extent because Things like aqua soil etc are rich in nutrients already. I love using that cat litter it's just a Shame they can't make the stuff in black lol



I would suggest writing to Tesco and asking them to find a black alternative, but then they would want to charge more if they knew what we were all using it for, lol.


----------



## Antipofish

Just want to say what a helpful post this one is   I went out and bought 3 bags of the Tesco stuff this evening and will be adding my Aquabasis Plus then the litter on top.  Then I just have to find some plants, hehe.

EDIT:  I now want to change my mind, LOL.  One way or another the cat littler ended up smelling and I could not get rid of that smell.  Either it was the cat litter, the JBL aquabasis+ underneath or the combination of the two, but ultimately my tank is now bare again


----------



## greenink

Has anyone successfully grown glosso or HC in this - or is it just too light? Does it get heavier after time? Pictures of HC in it would be v reassuring.


----------



## Alastair

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Has anyone successfully grown glosso or HC in this - or is it just too light? Does it get heavier after time? Pictures of HC in it would be v reassuring.



I have grown glosso very well in it, never had problems with it being too light. Id have took a pic for you,but have since pulled most of it out and just popped in the odd snip. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## greenink

Cheers

Have ordered the moler clay from here - no perfume and pretty much the same price as tesco

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=84_87

Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that - want to see if works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...


----------



## Antipofish

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Cheers
> 
> Have ordered the moler clay from here - no perfume and pretty much the same price as tesco
> 
> http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=84_87
> 
> Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that - want to see if works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...



What specific products is it that you have ordered off that page Mike ?


----------



## greenink

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/produc ... e77b8068ac

and the fine grain version

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/produc ... e77b8068ac

It's the same supplier as tesco - a danish firm - but this has no perfume added. A 30l bag is £10.75 - compared to £166.63 for 30l of ADA powder... Will let you know how I get on.


----------



## Antipofish

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=84_87&products_id=539&osCsid=10de2fddc4d059e9e16332e77b8068ac
> 
> and the fine grain version
> 
> http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/produc ... e77b8068ac
> 
> It's the same supplier as tesco - a danish firm - but this has no perfume added. A 30l bag is £10.75 - compared to £166.63 for 30l of ADA powder... Will let you know how I get on.




LMAO I don't know where ADA get their pricing ideas from.  It is a shame they are intent on making it such an "exclusive" hobby


----------



## greenink

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Cheers
> 
> Have ordered the moler clay from here - no perfume and pretty much the same price as tesco
> 
> http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=84_87
> 
> Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that - want to see if works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...



So the moler clay has arrived:






Am doing a planting test in my journal if that interests anyone with more pictures, but don't want to cross-post! (This bit starts on page 3).


----------



## biffster

i use tesco cat litter 
as any body had any funny test readings 
when first using cat litter when i first 
used it i got a high nitrate reading like 
off the scale


----------



## Antipofish

biffster said:
			
		

> i use tesco cat litter
> as any body had any funny test readings
> when first using cat litter when i first
> used it i got a high nitrate reading like
> off the scale



The cat litter would not contain cat litter, but your tap water can contain a fair amount.  Added to that, nitrate test kits are notoriously useless.  If its off the scale then I would say you have a problem with the test kit rather than the cat litter.  Try testing just your water


----------



## biffster

tap water is nearly no trace of nitrate 
my tank with sand substrate is 20 ppm 
and now the cat litter tank as had a few 
water changes it is about 20 ppm 
it was only off the scale when i first 
put it in its now seam to have settled 
down


----------



## foxfish

Are you sure your cat didn't try it out before you used it   
To the best of my knowledge clean baked clay cat litter does not leach anything!
However test kits are very unreliable & the majority of us don't trust or use them.


----------



## hinch

quick question relating to cat litter.

I'm thining of putting in a couple of ottos in my little tank but having never kept them before I have no idea how they rummage around in the substrate and distrub it.

Since cat litter is so light and easily disturbed I don't want them digging up my plants but I do need some kind of bottom cleaner/feeder in there to clear out any waste food the shrimp don't eat etc.  
So what are otto's like with cat litter? and how do they handle shrimp/shrimpletts


----------



## roadmaster

Otocinclus are algae eaters almost exclusively, and without their primary food,, many slowly starve. Some adapt to alage wafer's and or vegetable matter but many don't.
Your shrimp would be much better clean up crew for food particulates .
Less food's perhaps would equate to less need for scavengers.


----------



## hinch

the food is algae pellets as both the shrimp and the fish feed on them I assume otto's would eat algae pellets in place of live algae would they not?


----------



## PeteA

Ottos and shrimp go together very happily, I've got them in my smaller tank (which has a gravel substrate) - in fact they're probably the safest fish you can have with shrimp of any kind.  I can't see the Otto's having an issue with the cat litter but don't have them in the larger tank that uses it, the Starlight Pleco's I've got don't have an issue with it and haven't uprooted anything.  If you have waste food then you're overfeeding, the Otto's certainly won't help you with it, shrimp will eat some the rest will break down and form food for plants 

I've heard that Otto's don't eat algae food automatically and that you might need to feed them on cucumber for a while before they'll have the algae food.  However mine eat algae wafer without any problem


----------



## malawistu

hinch said:
			
		

> the food is algae pellets as both the shrimp and the fish feed on them I assume otto's would eat algae pellets in place of live algae would they not?


mine always have and every now and again I put in some blanched cucumber


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
I always (24/7) have vegetables (cucumber, courgette, cooked carrot, pepper, sweet potato or blanched french bean) available for both shrimps and _Otocinclus_. I fasten them to a vertical Bamboo cane (with an elastic band) and that way the _Otocinclus_ will find them, they like the veg when it is very soft (I believe they mainly eat diatoms from the biofilm rather than more visible algae). I usually stud the cucumber or courgette with dry food, once the fish are eating confidently from it, and they very occasionally get a prawn as well.

_Otocinclus_ are quite sensitive fish, and I wouldn't keep them in a small tank unless you were confident about your water management skills. Shrimps, _Corydoras pygmaeus_ and _Otocinclus_ are a very good mix for a ~50 litre planted tank. I've had my oldest 3 _Otocinclus_ for about 4 years now, so they are potentially long lived for a small fish.

If you have dead leaves in the tank, both shrimps and _Otocinclus_ will graze on them. I have some Magnolia leaves in the _Apistogramma_ tank (so no shrimps), the evergreen _M. grandiflora_, and the _Otocinclus_ have skeletonized them completely over Christmas.

There was a thread about this leaf feeding on Planet Catfish recently <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34911>.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hinch

good to know I always keep stocks of cucumber and courgette in anyway for the plec's (one a day between all the tanks)

The tank is only a 35 litre tank so its small but I'm able to keep the water stable thanks to many years of practice  the fish keeping part i'm good at its the whole planted thing i'm new to   I was just concerned for the ottos over disturbing the cat little because its so light and fly away (its also the reason I havent stuck some corys in there)


----------



## biffster

will it be OK for me to cap cat litter with 
silica sand


----------



## foxfish

Yes but over time the sand will end up underneath the larger grain CL!
If you have bottom dwellers this wont take long either


----------



## Antipofish

You used to be able to get something called a gravel tidy I recall, which kept gravel and sand separate.  Maybe that would work for this application too ?


----------



## foxfish

Any form of gravel tidy fine enough that stops sand particles would be restrictive to root formation surly?


----------



## Antipofish

foxfish said:
			
		

> Any form of gravel tidy fine enough that stops sand particles would be restrictive to root formation surly?



Hmm, you could have a point, LOL.  Though I thought in this case it was more to keep the cat ;litter from rising up as its so light ? You will get some sand settling into the underneath substrate but a courser grade gravel tidy should stop the cat litter rising but still allow root formation I would expect.  I will leave one of the more experienced planties to confirm or refute that though.  Don't take my word as gospel.


----------



## foxfish

Mate it is great to throw ideas around   
CL is quite light, that's because it is full of microscopic holes & that is why we like it because withing these holes we can store lots of plant goodies but, it is not that light!
CL sits nicely on the bottom & because of the irregular shaped grains, interlocks within itself, I have never had issues regarding its buoyancy.
Sand, on the other hand can easily be wafted around with the sweep of a hand or at least the top few mm can be.


----------



## Antipofish

foxfish said:
			
		

> Mate it is great to throw ideas around
> CL is quite light, that's because it is full of microscopic holes & that is why we like it because withing these holes we can store lots of plant goodies but, it is not that light!
> CL sits nicely on the bottom & because of the irregular shaped grains, interlocks within itself, I have never had issues regarding its buoyancy.
> Sand, on the other hand can easily be wafted around with the sweep of a hand or at least the top few mm can be.




OK, I thought the concern was that the cat litter would end up on top ?  Thats what someone wrote earlier.  So I thought the mesh would stop that happening.  I know what you mean about that (play) sand.  Im wondering if the Unipac 1mm sands like senegal, samoa etc might be a tad heavier and stay in place ?


----------



## biffster

just had an idea what about a split layer 
of filter mat this fine enough to let plant roots 
to get through but is coarse enough to hold the sand
on top an CL on the bottom or is that to restricting


----------



## mitchelllawson

Would this work? http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/product_r ... _16798.htm
Only ingredient is "natural clay" thats all it says, i asked my mum to buy me tesco stuff but she got that, not sure if it'll work.


----------



## foxfish

No mate that is the stuff you want to avoid, you need the hard baked clay.


----------



## mitchelllawson

Dam, okay, thanks!


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Dam, okay, thanks!



This is the stuff you want.  If you cannot get it, I have 15L of the stuff here, and I can weigh it and calculate shipping if you like.


----------



## mitchelllawson

Antipofish said:
			
		

> mitchelllawson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dam, okay, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the stuff you want.  If you cannot get it, I have 15L of the stuff here, and I can weigh it and calculate shipping if you like.
Click to expand...


I have it in my house, so it is the stuff i want or is it not? Confused now.


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mitchelllawson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dam, okay, thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the stuff you want.  If you cannot get it, I have 15L of the stuff here, and I can weigh it and calculate shipping if you like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have it in my house, so it is the stuff i want or is it not? Confused now.
Click to expand...


Sorry I meant to put a link in there for the right stuff.  I am a PUTZ and forgot the link.

Here it is.. And to be clear, the stuff you linked to is NOT RIGHT.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=265235247


----------



## mitchelllawson

Alright haha, thanks


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Alright haha, thanks



Just let me know if you want this stuff I have, though i guess its only if you cannot get it locally


----------



## mitchelllawson

I can get it locally, but i wont be need a whole bag could you be check the P&P, i only need enough to cover a 2G tank about 2-3"


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> I can get it locally, but i wont be need a whole bag could you be check the P&P, i only need enough to cover a 2G tank about 2-3"



whats the dimensions of the tank ?  Length and width


----------



## mitchelllawson

2G = 9L so i'd need about 3L, should be fine, thanks, pm me price


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> 2G = 9L so i'd need about 3L, should be fine, thanks, pm me price



If you tell me the dimensions of your tank I can work out what you need for that depth.  There is no correlation to the volume of the tank it is all to do with the surface area of the tank.


----------



## mitchelllawson

Its 12" x 8"


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Its 12" x 8"





OK 12" x 8"  = 30cm x 20cm

You want 2" to 3", so based on 3" (7.5cm).....


30 x 20 x 7.5 /1000 = 4.5Litres  

By my reckoning thats half a bag.  Which is handy cos I have 1.5 bags.  I will work out the price and PM you.


----------



## mitchelllawson

thanks haha!


----------



## mitchelllawson

Antipofish said:
			
		

> By my reckoning thats half a bag.  Which is handy cos I have 1.5 bags.  I will work out the price and PM you.



Did you figure out a price?


----------



## foxfish

Mate it cost about £3 a bag in the supermarket.


----------



## mitchelllawson

Yeh i know but im 15 and cant drive and my parent dont support the hobby and wont buy it for me :/


----------



## hinch

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Yeh i know but im 15 and cant drive and my parent dont support the hobby and wont buy it for me :/



bus/walk ?


----------



## mitchelllawson

Its about 7 miles from my house and id have to carry maybe a 5kg bag back ( not actually sure on weight), don't think id manage.


----------



## danmil3s

when i was your age i walked 7 miles up hill both ways to get my cat litter. only joking mate its not as heavy as 5 kg and you can just bin what you don't want at tesco. do you not have a push bike, 7 miles is not to  bad on a bike.


----------



## mitchelllawson

I could try and cycle down, take a bag with me (most likely a school bag) should work, and also good exercise


----------



## danmil3s

thats it mate and who know maybe London to pairs next year.


----------



## mitchelllawson

danmil3s said:
			
		

> thats it mate and who know maybe London to pairs next year.



more than likely hahaha!


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By my reckoning thats half a bag.  Which is handy cos I have 1.5 bags.  I will work out the price and PM you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you figure out a price?
Click to expand...



Hi, yeah its gonna work out quite pricy because of the weight.  It will be more than twice what it would cost.  If you lived near me you I would have dropped it off.  The litter would have been free either way.  If you get really stuck let me know but if you can get the bus or cycle down you should be ok


----------



## mitchelllawson

Were do you live, if you dont mind me asking, and i think i will probably be able to get some by cycling down, thanks though 

Mitchell


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Were do you live, if you dont mind me asking, and i think i will probably be able to get some by cycling down, thanks though
> 
> Mitchell



Eastbourne, "suntrap of the south"


----------



## mitchelllawson

501 mi, 8 hours 36 mins, not that bad  haha!


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> 501 mi, 8 hours 36 mins, not that bad  haha!




Indeed.  For £250 i will deliver it personally lol


----------



## mitchelllawson

Ill walk down to yours and carry it back up, free of charge!


----------



## Antipofish

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Ill walk down to yours and carry it back up, free of charge!



Lol if you walk the 500 miles personally you can even have an extra bag of the stuff.


----------



## TetraUK

After reading this tread on cat litter, I decided to give it a go in my new desk top cube, picture was taken a few weeks ago... but really pleased with it. No problems with plants staying in the subsrate which was my initial worry with it being so light. 

Thanks guys, saved me a few quid as I was doing trying to do this on a tight budget due to my impending holiday!


----------



## O'Neil

Have any of you tried this one, just happened to spot when looking for the low dust one.

http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/ ... =250359665


----------



## Alastair

It's clumping cat litter that which would have me believe it may turn mushy in an aquarium mate 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Antipofish

Porksword said:
			
		

> Have any of you tried this one, just happened to spot when looking for the low dust one.
> 
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/ ... =250359665



You dont wanna use that stuff mate , it will create a right mess.  Not the stuff this thread is advocating.  The one you want is this...
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=265235247


----------



## greenink

I've got the (cheaper, unperfumed, smaller grain size) molar clay in my 259 litre, is holding everything down great


----------



## O'Neil

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Porksword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of you tried this one, just happened to spot when looking for the low dust one.
> 
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/ ... =250359665
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You dont wanna use that stuff mate , it will create a right mess.  Not the stuff this thread is advocating.  The one you want is this...
> http://www.tesco.com/groceries/Product/Details/?id=265235247
Click to expand...


Yeah thats the one i was looking for initially, but i did read somewhere about "having to watch your filter flow rate" as it can cause any hills or slopes you've made to collapse.... lets not rule out the fact that i may have misread as i zoomed through it all, lol.
But thanks I'll stick to what you guys have tried and tested.


----------



## O'Neil

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> I've got the (cheaper, unperfumed, smaller grain size) molar clay in my 259 litre, is holding everything down great



Hmmm Thanks mate i mite try both and see which one works best for me.


----------



## O'Neil

Could this also be used for a shrimp tank, i'm planning to destroy my current 33 ltr nano and start again.
I'll be EI Dosing with carbo and the standard light.
Or would it be better to use only the fluval one for shrimp?
Or cat litter capped with the fluval stuff?


----------



## Alastair

Cat litter alone should be fine. I had cherry shrimp and amano shrimp in mine when I used it and didn't notice any ill effects 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## O'Neil

Alastair said:
			
		

> Cat litter alone should be fine. I had cherry shrimp and amano shrimp in mine when I used it and didn't notice any ill effects
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Excellent Kitty Litter it is, thanks Alastair


----------



## logi-cat

hi, does anybody know if cat litter reduces ph?


----------



## Antipofish

logi-cat said:
			
		

> hi, does anybody know if cat litter reduces ph?



shouldn't do it is meant to be inert.


----------



## logi-cat

ok ,thanks


----------



## michj

hi all

in an earlier post Darrel mentoned the use of growmore in with the catlitter, i am planning on stripping down my 350l jewel and wanted to use the cl, the tank is well stocked and reasonably planted (but no real healthy growth) any idea how much growmore i would need to add to the cl? and if i used growmore would i need to use any other ferts? i do hope to start using liquid co2 as soon as possible if this would be seen as beneficial.
i am very new to planted (but not garden plants) tanks so any advice would be great.


thanks
michael


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


> hi, does anybody know if cat litter reduces ph?


 Potentially it can, this is because it has some cation/anion exchange capacity. If the cation exchange sites are full of H+ ions, these will be swapped for Ca2+ etc ions from the tank water an the pH may fall (acids are defined as "_H+ ion donors_").

I don't think this will be a problem in practice, if you soak your cat litter in tap water it will pick up Ca2+ and carbonate ions from the tap water. Some more details in the Akadama thread <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/search.php?keywords=darrel&t=741&sf=msgonly>

cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
I'll have a a go at the "Growmore" questions as well. You don't need very much, because of the CEC of the substrate. Have a look at some of the pictures on the forum of people adding Osmocote to their substrate.

"Growmore" is NPK, 7:7:7 (as the 2 oxides) and moderately slow release so a much cheaper and fairly similar option to the bonsai fertiliser. It doesn't include the other elements required for plant growth (Mg, Fe, etc) so isn't  a complete replacement for Osmocote or fertilizing the water column.

Because the NPK "7:7:7" is N2O5:K2O this gives us:
NO3 =N(14) O(16+16+16) = 62, 62\14 = 4.4 = 4.4 x 7 = ~ 30ppm NO3.

P2 (31+31) + O5 (16+16+16+16+16) = (62) + (78) = RMM 140 = 62/140 = 44.3% P so ~ 3ppm P rather than 7.

K(39+39) + O(16)  = 78/94 = 83% K so ~ 6ppm K.

You could supplement the N and K with KNO3 (supplies both, but more K than N), or KCl and Epsom salts (MgSO4.7H2O) for Mg, but you would still need iron EDTA and micro-elements from one of our sponsors. I'll ignore phosphorus because it is added to UK tap water, and will be bound to the cat litter fairly strongly.

The other option is an "all in one" solution dosed at a lower rate.

cheers Darrel


----------



## michj

Hi Darrel

so Osmocote would be the way to go then.

i wont pretend to understand the equation type things    :?   but i appreciate the time you took to explain  it  


thanks
michael


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Is it possible to pre soak cat litter in nutrient rich water to give it some nutrient value? I'm not setting a tank up for a few months but figured I could leave it in a bucket somewhere.


----------



## Antipofish

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Is it possible to pre soak cat litter in nutrient rich water to give it some nutrient value? I'm not setting a tank up for a few months but figured I could leave it in a bucket somewhere.



Absolutely but you would still need to do water changes.  Best idea if you have the time would be to do several water changes to get rid of any unwanted odour from the cat litter.  Then start to soak it in nutrient rich water.  Cat litter (assuming you get the right one) is essentially clay and is meant to have a reasonable CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) making it suitable for absorbing nutrients.

Having said all that, Im no fan of the stuff as you can tell from the early pages in my main journal, lol.


----------



## LancsRick

What I've found from my 2 months of using cat litter is that if you've got the luxury of prepping it in advance, you could definitely reduce the mess it makes!

- Rinse it through thoroughly in a sieve on day 1, until the water runs clear
- Leave soaking for weeks
- Agitate and change water (I was back to producing red dust water at this stage, maybe it would be viable to re-sieve it?)

The perfume is generally easily taken care of by a single rinse at the start, and is gone long before the water stops being red.

The pros are how cheap it is, but there's no doubt it's a right pain to stop floating when you're planting.


----------



## sr20det

Agree with Lancs.

I washed it until it was crystall clear, then left for a few days to dry out, then washed it again, throughly, once dry, it would relase a little cloudiness on washing again.  Did this daily, left to dry over night, for a week, and then left to soak for another week, washing it again, and re-soaking wth fresh water every 2-3 days, and after two weeks it was brill.

Bit of a PITA, but again at the price, I am not complaining.  I think it looks nice too


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Setting up my first cat litter scape, feels much like a lightweight eco complete.


----------



## Antipofish

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Setting up my first cat litter scape, feels much like a lightweight eco complete.



And smells like a Tarts boudoir ! LOL.  Dont forget to wash it, then wash it again, and again, and again, and again......


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Morgan Freeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Setting up my first cat litter scape, feels much like a lightweight eco complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And smells like a Tarts boudoir ! LOL.  Dont forget to wash it, then wash it again, and again, and again, and again......
Click to expand...


It makes me want to puke. God awful smell.


----------



## Tomfish

I,ve just finished planting up a 4ft cat litter tank... its light, painfully light. It took 13 hours and nearly sent me to the asylem. If any more rise up from where i planted the i think i may cry  

i hate using it, but rock wool saved the day.

good luck and i hope for your sake you have a small tank!

cheers


----------



## Morgan Freeman

No problems with planting so far! Same as ADA or EcoComplete.


----------



## jetsfan

I,m with Tomfish here.I'm setting up with cat litter at the moment and crying with frustration trying to plant up!!
Just spent an hour planting 3 E.Uraguayensis in and still not convinced they're going to stick!!  
I'll keep trying tho'


----------



## foxfish

Like many things in life - It is all about technique!
There is a certain way to grip the plants with your forceps & a certain way to wiggle them into the substrate.....
Bear in mind, thousands of folk can do this successfully so it must be possible?


----------



## Antipofish

Lol foxfish I think "thousands" might be an exaggeration of the number of people using cat litter as a planted substrate.  

Also, I think its fair to say that its more difficult for newbies to planting to grasp planting in this stuff than someone who has been planting a while.  I hated the stuff when I tried it.  Having been in the planted side of the hobby and done my fair share of planting now, i am confident I would find it a lot easier.

That said, I will never change my opinion of it.  Its horrid, flyaway stuff thats a pain in the proverbial to get properly clean and I can think of nothing worse than using it as a first substrate.


----------



## Danny

This is brilliant guys, I am sitting here lmao at how simple an effective this is!  Now it has been used by many for a while now any adverse effects?

After reading this thread I now plan on using it in my shrimp tank I am setting up, how deep is recommended and have there been any problems with using it with shrimp to date? I will be using plain old Neo's as a first try with shrimp.

Cheers


----------



## johnski

Danny said:
			
		

> This is brilliant guys, I am sitting here lmao at how simple an effective this is!  Now it has been used by many for a while now any adverse effects?
> 
> After reading this thread I now plan on using it in my shrimp tank I am setting up, how deep is recommended and have there been any problems with using it with shrimp to date? I will be using plain old Neo's as a first try with shrimp.
> 
> Cheers



I've been using it for a while now. I wouldn't use it again if I'm honest. 

I washed the living hell out of it for about 6 hours and stuck it in the tank after getting fed up of washing it. It gave off a smell that apparently made the house smell like a hairdressers lol. The smell went after about 2 weeks, but came back last weekend after I pulled out some plants with huge roots structures. 

It hasn't had any affect on my fish or shrimp though.


----------



## foxfish

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Lol foxfish I think "thousands" might be an exaggeration of the number of people using cat litter as a planted substrate.  .


Well, I obviously don't know the real answer however I would think that world wide, baked clay is a well used substrate & thousands is a fair estimate!
I personally favour aristorcat cat litter because of its larger grain size.


----------



## Aqua sobriquet

I bought the Tesco stuff just a couple of months ago and didn't notice any smell when I opened the bag or whilst washing it. Either I was lucky or they're not adding fragrance to it any more?


----------



## Antipofish

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> I bought the Tesco stuff just a couple of months ago and didn't notice any smell when I opened the bag or whilst washing it. Either I was lucky or they're not adding fragrance to it any more?



Or you have no sense of smell


----------



## johnski

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> I bought the Tesco stuff just a couple of months ago and didn't notice any smell when I opened the bag or whilst washing it. Either I was lucky or they're not adding fragrance to it any more?



The smell when opening the bag and washing it wasn't nearly half as strong as what it smelt like after sitting in the tank for a couple days.


----------



## Aqua sobriquet

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Or you have no sense of smell



I've got a very good sense of smell, which can be a real pain sometimes as I hate the smell of fish! Cooked, raw, makes no difference. Really puts me off MY food if someone on my table is eating it!


----------



## greenink

Really can't understand why anyone would buy the tesco version when you can get the same stuff, unperfumed, with smaller grain sizes, delivered to your house from the bonsai place earlier in this thread!


----------



## Antipofish

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Really can't understand why anyone would buy the tesco version when you can get the same stuff, unperfumed, with smaller grain sizes, delivered to your house from the bonsai place earlier in this thread!



Agreed Mike.  The akadama is the only way I would consider using this stuff again.


----------



## roadmaster

Danny said:
			
		

> This is brilliant guys, I am sitting here lmao at how simple an effective this is!  Now it has been used by many for a while now any adverse effects?
> 
> After reading this thread I now plan on using it in my shrimp tank I am setting up, how deep is recommended and have there been any problems with using it with shrimp to date? I will be using plain old Neo's as a first try with shrimp.
> 
> Cheers




Six month's ago , I tore down 80 gal planted tank and built new substrate.
On bottom I placed approx three cups of osmocote  slow release fertilzer ,followed by about and inch of "special kitty cat litter"(plain grey   unscented) .I then added 3/4 of fifty pound bag of miracle grow organic potting mix,and covered this with 50 lbs of Black diamond blasting media.
I believe the cat litter was/is helping to hold nutrient's from Osmocote and miracle grow, but I also add a bit of KNO3,KH2PO4,CSM+B once a week or two.
Tank holds numerous fishes and shrimp (cherry), which are numerous enough to survive some predation and plant's are doing much better than with old gravel substrate over top of Eco-complete.
Plan on trying to post some pics as soon as tiger lotus bulb's get a bit larger.
I also have a 29 gal plain potting soil ,same cat litter, but hate the grey color .(loads of cherry shrimp)
Most other litter I have found of suitable color, also contains scented stuff or is too large of grain size for my liking .
Have never seen the Tesco that is opular with you al here in the U.S.


----------



## Danny

Right guys.......decided to give this a shot, firstly there is barely any smell almost none but I have been washing approx 1L of this stuff for about half hour now and seems to be having no effect lol

How long does it take to get this stuff clean and does the water actually clear like a normal sand or gravel would when washed enough?


----------



## Aqua sobriquet

I used a sieve, you won't get all the dust out but once in the tank it clears quickly enough, at least mine did.


----------



## Danny

Gave it a few rinses and just chucked it in then filled slowly, a bit hazy now but sure it will clear in no time. It is only really a shrimp tank and think as long as there in minimal disturbance to it it should be fine and not cloud the water once settled.


----------



## Danny

24hrs on and the tank is crystal clear, also un-capped.


----------



## Antipofish

Danny said:
			
		

> 24hrs on and the tank is crystal clear, also un-capped.



Glad its clear...why would you cap cat litter ? It would be like capping Aquasoil or Florabase. 

Oh yes, I HAVE Florabase capped


----------



## Danny

LOL just that I read in this thread that a lot have capped it.


----------



## Antipofish

Danny said:
			
		

> LOL just that I read in this thread that a lot have capped it.



OK well its personal choice.  I think some use it to bulk up the substrate but its very light and will work its way to the top in any case if capped.  It can be used as a substrate on its own though.


----------



## Danny

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Danny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL just that I read in this thread that a lot have capped it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK well its personal choice.  I think some use it to bulk up the substrate but its very light and will work its way to the top in any case if capped.  It can be used as a substrate on its own though.
Click to expand...


Yeah I think it will do fine as it is as only a shrimp tank with plants and perhaps a few Tetra's, looks nice though


----------



## Antipofish

Tetras or pencilfish or microdevario kubotai or bororas briggatae... all lovely fish that compliment shrimps well


----------



## Aqua sobriquet

It may take a little while for the TDS to drop so don't be in a hurry to add shrimp.


----------



## biffster

Well my cat litter as been in for almost a year now 
and i would like to say with no problems my plants 
are growing well my shrimp are breeding and so are the bristle 
nose they like it because its easy for them to move they bury 
themselves in there cave and dig themselves out to kick all the babies 
out and the guppies are doing well as well thinking of doing a 4x2x2 compost 
capped with cat litter


----------



## greenink

biffster said:
			
		

> Well my cat litter as been in for almost a year now



Here's my tank after 6 months of cat litter (well, actually unperfumed molar clay) with EI dosing, and osmocote tabs added in the last few weeks. Shot taken just after a heavy trim of the stems. Right hand side rescaped quite recently so ignore that bit...










Think safe to say it's possible to grow stuff in it!


----------



## biffster

it looks fantastic that wish i could get mine to look like that lol 
i will eventually i am picking tips up from other places and people 
and i am finding planted tanks very interesting in fact the next 
tank i am thinking of do is going to have a very low stocking level
fish wise


----------



## sr20det

Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?


----------



## Antipofish

sr20det said:
			
		

> Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?



Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added


----------



## Danny

Bought some about 2 weeks ago I guess, got two extra bags as it does sell out quickly lol


----------



## foxfish

Antipofish said:
			
		

> sr20det said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added
Click to expand...

Not really mate as akadama will go soft when it gets wet!


----------



## Antipofish

foxfish said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sr20det said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not really mate as akadama will go soft when it gets wet!
Click to expand...


Thats the first I have head about it, and lots of guys on here swear by it.  Maybe you had a bad batch or the wrong stuff.


----------



## fluffycabbage

Hi folks - am really intrigued about the whole cat litter debate lol !

Im looking for a good substrate to grow plants in, because im trying to keep german blue rams, and need to reduce the amount of nitrates in my water (varies between 20-40ppm  ) so im going the plant route. I also need to reduce the pH in my water which stand at 8.2 out the tap and about 7.6 in the tank with a few pieces of bogwood, a few plants, and a couple of indian almond leaves, playsand substrate. Using Easy-Life Easycarbo and ProFito. Its also hard-very hard (sorry dont know reading but all i know is its bloomin hard lol)

So...is there a substrate which is good for plants AND reduces pH and hardness of water?

I did consider peat in the filter, but unsure on the substrate to tackle all of the above problems!! Will prob keep some of my corys in the tank too.

Thanks in advace for advice!


----------



## sr20det

Antipofish said:
			
		

> sr20det said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added
Click to expand...


Problem I have is it needs to be inert. Want to maintain hard water ish. Akadema reduces ph from my understanding.


----------



## foxfish

Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added [/quote]
Not really mate as akadama will go soft when it gets wet![/quote]

Thats the first I have head about it, and lots of guys on here swear by it.  Maybe you had a bad batch or the wrong stuff.[/quote]

No mate, I keep over 100 bonsai trees & have been using akadama for 30 years, it turns into mush when wet.

There are a number of grades of Akadama available including 'Double Redline' that is more costly but, is of premium quality and less likely to break down as quickly as the regular akadama products.

In the tank, permantly submerged, it will turn back into a liquid clay over time & is a nightmare when disturbed. This does not happen overnight but over a period of time depending on the quality & grade of akadama - hard baked clay like 'cat litter' is a different end product as it has been superheated & remains hard when wet.


----------



## Morgan Freeman

No problems using cat litter so far. Plants seem to dig it.


----------



## sr20det

Danny said:
			
		

> Bought some about 2 weeks ago I guess, got two extra bags as it does sell out quickly lol



I have 1 bag, but need more, and my local Extra (massive store) is where I got it from hasnt had any for about 3-4 wks.  Only got stacks of the clumping stuff.

May try another store.


----------



## Danny

If your this way any time go to the one at Colney Hatch lane ( Frien Barnet ) beside the North circ, that is our local and almost always has the stuff.


----------



## sr20det

Danny said:
			
		

> If your this way any time go to the one at Colney Hatch lane ( Frien Barnet ) beside the North circ, that is our local and almost always has the stuff.



well i usually go to the Beckton (A406/A13) one, due to its mahoosiveness, but Bow is prob closest, so will pop down there.  I have one near work, so may pop down in my lunch one evening if my local lacks any too.


----------



## greenink

Really don't understand why people don't buy molar clay online - link earlier in this thread - same stuff as tesco cat litter, but smaller grain size, no perfume, cheaper and delivered...


----------



## Danny

My ( what will be shrimp tank ) has been running with CL for 3 weeks now and after a couple of water changes there is no smell of the CL what so ever, just the normal fish tank smell same as the main tank.

CL is easy and cheap as chips, everyone has a Tesco local to them and can just pop in and get some ( when in stock lol ) I rinsed half at a bag at a time in a bucket 5 times and chucked it in, tank was crystal clear within 24hrs and has been since.

There is a slight dust that came up for a while when it was disturbed but that went in no time. I have it in my main tank also and IMO the stuff is great, it is a bit light and disturbed easily but with 2-3" planting with tweezers or other tool is easy and the plants hold fine.

Wish I had got on this stuff a long time ago


----------



## Antipofish

sr20det said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sr20det said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone or has bought cat litter from Tesco recently. Mine hasn't had any for weeks, wonder if its a discontinued line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just buy Akadama / bonsai soil.  Its better anyway... doesn't have the perfume added
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Problem I have is it needs to be inert. Want to maintain hard water ish. Akadema reduces ph from my understanding.
Click to expand...


Practically every professional grade planted substrate reduces pH.  Why is that a bad thing ?  I have colombo florabase and it reduces my tap pH water to 6.4.  I couldn't be happier about that personally.


----------



## fluffycabbage

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Really don't understand why people don't buy molar clay online - link earlier in this thread - same stuff as tesco cat litter, but smaller grain size, no perfume, cheaper and delivered...



Where can you get 10l of molar clay for £2.95? Would love to know, coz not only does this Tesco cat litter stink, but Ive just spent an hour rinsing one bag of it and its still very much throwing up lots of dust   

Isn't the perfume harmul to fish?


----------



## fluffycabbage

fluffycabbage said:
			
		

> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really don't understand why people don't buy molar clay online - link earlier in this thread - same stuff as tesco cat litter, but smaller grain size, no perfume, cheaper and delivered...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where can you get 10l of molar clay for £2.95? Would love to know, coz not only does this Tesco cat litter stink, but Ive just spent an hour rinsing one bag of it and its still very much throwing up lots of dust
> 
> Isn't the perfume harmul to fish?
Click to expand...



I wanted to buy this http://www.bonsai.co.uk/30-Litre-Graded-Moler-Clay.html but out of stock


----------



## Danny

Just rinse well 5 times and that will do, that is what I did and now have plenty of fish in the main tank now all happy with it.


----------



## fluffycabbage

Danny said:
			
		

> Just rinse well 5 times and that will do, that is what I did and now have plenty of fish in the main tank now all happy with it.



Really? Ive left it soaking overnight and im gonna rinse through again in a sec, but the water is still very cloudy...surely thats not good for them? And if its the filter which makes it clear, then surely the clay is getting into the filter then - and that cant be good?  :?


----------



## Morgan Freeman

fluffycabbage said:
			
		

> Danny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just rinse well 5 times and that will do, that is what I did and now have plenty of fish in the main tank now all happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Ive left it soaking overnight and im gonna rinse through again in a sec, but the water is still very cloudy...surely thats not good for them? And if its the filter which makes it clear, then surely the clay is getting into the filter then - and that cant be good?  :?
Click to expand...


I rinsed mine constantly for a few days. Making sure I got my hands well in there to turn over all the cat litter and get it all thoroughly rinsed. When I added it to the tank there was still a fair bit of colour but it cleared up within 3/4 days.

It's a bit monotonous but keep at it


----------



## biffster

i have been using alder cones to soften my water and lower my ph 
and they give a nice pleasant brown colour to the water i don't think cat 
litter would lower your ph or soften your water i tested my  ph
and was pretty much neutral great for a community tank i also use 
almond leaves as well as alder cones and some time use sphagnum moss
peat  which also gives the brown water effect as well     



			
				fluffycabbage said:
			
		

> Hi folks - am really intrigued about the whole cat litter debate lol !
> 
> Im looking for a good substrate to grow plants in, because im trying to keep german blue rams, and need to reduce the amount of nitrates in my water (varies between 20-40ppm  ) so im going the plant route. I also need to reduce the pH in my water which stand at 8.2 out the tap and about 7.6 in the tank with a few pieces of bogwood, a few plants, and a couple of indian almond leaves, playsand substrate. Using Easy-Life Easycarbo and ProFito. Its also hard-very hard (sorry dont know reading but all i know is its bloomin hard lol)
> 
> So...is there a substrate which is good for plants AND reduces pH and hardness of water?
> 
> I did consider peat in the filter, but unsure on the substrate to tackle all of the above problems!! Will prob keep some of my corys in the tank too.
> 
> Thanks in advace for advice!


----------



## Antipofish

The above is correct.  Cat litter will neither soften the water nor change the pH.  A proper planted substrate like ADA Aquasoil or Colombo Florabase, or Fluval Stratum or any of the others will do.


----------



## Morgan Freeman

FLuffy Cabbage, I did a little test with some peat balls and they dropped my ph from around 8 to 6.5 overnight. Didn't get to test the hardness however.


----------



## Antipofish

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> FLuffy Cabbage, I did a little test with some peat balls and they dropped my ph from around 8 to 6.5 overnight. Didn't get to test the hardness however.



How long will it STAY there though ? Be an interesting test to test it daily until water change, then change the water and test etc...  I would be keen to know the results


----------



## AshRolls

Ok, well I have evidentally bought the wrong stuff judging by the concrete like substance that I have just created in a bucket.... For the record the following brand is *NOT* moler clay   I knew something was wrong but a couple of saturday night ales and my enthusiasm combined to overrule my better judgement.


----------



## sr20det

AshRolls said:
			
		

> Ok, well I have evidentally bought the wrong stuff judging by the concrete like substance that I have just created in a bucket.... For the record the following brand is *NOT* moler clay   I knew something was wrong but a couple of saturday night ales and my enthusiasm combined to overrule my better judgement.


Pic of the one needed earlier in this thread. All else is indeed a no no.


----------



## Johno2090

AshRolls said:
			
		

> Ok, well I have evidentally bought the wrong stuff judging by the concrete like substance that I have just created in a bucket.... For the record the following brand is *NOT* moler clay   I knew something was wrong but a couple of saturday night ales and my enthusiasm combined to overrule my better judgement.



You can use this to make great vivarium backgrounds though  I did!


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

mitchelllawson said:
			
		

> Yeh i know but im 15 and cant drive and my parent dont support the hobby and wont buy it for me :/



So they don't support you in Aquascaping but do with HOCKEY?!! 

Wow Crazy World.

You sort your Cat Sh1t Dust out?


----------



## Henry

Sorry for the thread revival, but has anybody else had trouble getting hold of the 'Tesco Low Dust' cat litter? It seems to have disappeared from shelves everywhere! Even their website says it's "unavailable". Have they caught onto the fact that people are using it as a cheap alternative to other products? Will it turn up again, only to be marked up by 500%?


----------



## Henry

Looks like its been discontinued. The glory days are over folks!


----------



## Wallace

Henry said:


> Looks like its been discontinued. The glory days are over folks!



Doesn't look like it to me

Tesco Low Dust Lightweight Cat Litter 10 Litres - Groceries - Tesco Groceries


----------



## Henry

Wallace said:


> Doesn't look like it to me
> 
> Groceries


 
Well done for using google.

I've already tried to buy it online. It says "This product is currently unavailable" when it checks availability. I rand customer services, and was told that it was no longer on their system either.


----------



## Henry

Anybody used Sophisticat pink? I've been rinsing it and soaking it for 24 hours now, but theres still a faint smell of flowers. What to do?


----------



## foxfish

Yes I have, it is featured on this thread.....
Put it in a bucket, run water in, let it overflow while stirring.


----------



## Henry

I ended up washing it before reading this post. I found the quickest method was to was it in small amounts in a sieve and blast bater through it. The grain size is a little lsrger than I'd like, but managed to plant everything. Once the H. tripartita has grown in, I doubt I'll even see the substrate.
Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Claire

Henry said:


> Looks like its been discontinued. The glory days are over folks!


 
I saw it in the shop today while I was getting my groceries. Deffo not discontinued.


----------



## Henry

Bugger! They must have had a lull in production then,it wasn't available anywhere for a while. I went and bought 30L of plain moler clay for £11 in the end. Thats enough to fill a lion's litter tray!


----------



## Claire

I hadn't really looked out for it until I read this topic, and then I checked while I was in today.
Ah well.


----------



## bridgey_c

Is this a daft idea?

About a month or so ago I decided to rip apart a 60 litre tank and try Kitty litter. I thought I would try a med light, co2, Ei dosed tank in a purely inert substrate. I am now having second thoughts, so what about this for an idea. I freeze cubes of john innes no3 and then place them deep under the kitty litter........

should I be prepared for an ammonia spike? is this sensible at all? Is there a better way of achieving the same result?

cheers.


----------



## Henry

You can use Osmocote capsules lightly scattered underneath the cat litter. Your plants will do exceedingly well assuming you get the CO2 and dosing right.


----------



## jimib

Hi all, new guy here to the forum and planted tanks and i was wondering if this product, " miracle-gro all purpose continuous release plant food " (  sorry  would not let me link it ) , would be ok for placing under the cat litter .   also how much of it should i place under the cat litter in a tank 5x2 ?	 thanks for any replies


----------



## greenink

Yes that's Osmocote - just a bit under the substrate. Maybe a ping pong ball sized amount per couple of square feet.


----------



## biffster

i have been running cat litter substrate for nearly two years now and my 
plants are growing well still i use a small amount of co2 and that is all the 
ferts i use i was told that cat litter was hi in iron and is good for sustaining plant 
growth


----------



## Anthony89

How long did it take you to rinse 5 bags Alastair?  Just in the process of rinsing cat litter for a 5ft tank. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Henry

Anthony89 said:


> How long did it take you to rinse 5 bags Alastair?  Just in the process of rinsing cat litter for a 5ft tank.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


If you're using that much, you'd be better off getting the small grain moler clay from a bonsai supplier, then you only need to rinse the dust out of it. For the small difference in price you'll save yourself a lot of hassle. I found it far better to rinse in small amounts in a sieve, otherwise you'll be breaking the grains up as you swirl it around.


----------



## foxfish

I find the easy way is to fill a large contaier (dustbin) outside and run the garden hose into it, let the water overflow while stiring the litter with your hand. 
This can be done on a smaller scale with a saurcepan in the sink.


----------



## Anthony89

Im using a bucket in tje sink, far to cold outside lol. Im adding roughly 2l of cat litter, filling and mixing 5-6 times bwfore adding to the tank. The water runs pretty clear. Was just unsure on the scent.  Cant smell it even from the bag.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Polly

Just thought I'd update on my cat litter aquarium.

Took the plunge in 2009 and it's still in there !    Fish still fine, plants fine.   It doesn't seem to have disintegrated too much if at all.

I am sick of the colour of it though.  I really wish it came in a really deep dark colour, brown/black preferably  But that's another post ☺


----------

