# Re-using a bath...



## Egmel (13 Jun 2011)

My parents have had a pond in a bath tub for years and when I gutted my bathroom I thought it'd be fun to do the same thing.

The basic idea is that the bath will be semi-sunk but mainly proud of the ground with earth/rocks banked up round it.  Partly for insulation but also so I can plant it with alpine plants.  (It will also reduce the amount of digging required   ).  I'm intending to use rocks/stones siliconed to the bath edge to make stepping stones for wildlife to get in and out of it, as well as using bricks on the bottom to get the right height for various plant pots.

We've kept the sink too and thought of using this as a waterfall into the bath (not from it's full height).  I had wondered if I could use this as a filter too but then realised I'd have to turn it off during winter and soon gave up on that idea!

We popped into the LFS over the weekend to have a look at pumps/filters and now I'm even more confused than I was before I went in!  The guys were great, but there's just so much choice and I'm not sure I want to pay for what seemed the best solution (a cannister filter which takes the water from the plug and spouts it back through the waterfall).  They also had an all in one submersible pump/filter, but it looked huge, the bath is just a standard size (1700x700) and I don't want to take up the entire base with an all singing all dancing solution.

This is where I now admit that my parents don't even have a pump on theirs, as a fish keeper I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this, however they seem to keep goldfish admirably and since they've been breeding they've been passing them on to my sister!  Should I be so worried?  Will a small pond with a few fish be ok with just a pump for water circulation and plenty of plants?


----------



## Bobtastic (13 Jun 2011)

I really like the idea of this, if done right it will look really clever and impressive! I would probably say not to use the plug hole as the out let for any water flow, it is likely to get blocked with debris and detritus. Would the over flow not be a better play to draw water into the filter/filtration chamber?


----------



## Gill (25 Jun 2011)

Re-using an old bath is a great way to make a Pond. I am going to use ours when we have it replaced. Mine is Eleptical and An Avacado color so already suited to be a Pond. with Shelves in it for seating. 
Yes you can Use the Plug Hole as a Drain for the Pond, but if you don't like that Idea. You can use the Drain that is in most baths to stop it overflowing. You can use this as a Wier for water to drain out of the pond, and it will also act like a skimmer.


----------



## Egmel (12 Aug 2011)

Ok, I figured that taking the water from the bottom would be easiest, but now you mention it, there'll be less head from the overflow and I'll be able to use a smaller pump.

I'm still not sure what size/type of pump to use, there's just so many and many of them are huge!


----------



## martin-green (13 Aug 2011)

Hi, its actually easier than you may think.

Yes there are lots of pumps, please indulge me.

There are 4 main categorys of pump for the pond owner.

Filter, Sump, Feature, Fountain.

*Filter* *
A filter pump is designed to send "rubbish" to the filter and do this with no problems.

*Sump**
A sump pump is what you should use to empty your pond, or any flooded area, they shift a lot of water very fast at the cost of being expensive to run and not meant for 24 hour use.

*Feature**
A feature pump is designed to be small but powerful and economic.

*Fountain**
A fountain pump is powerful in order to operate a fountain nozzle.

Each category can then be broken down further as to what it is actually to do, then you have brands of pump. To put it simply, some brands are better than others at everything and some are just cheap and functional and don't last long.

So to decide which pump you want is as I mentioned not as hard as it looks.

So you want a pump to pump from a bath, what is it going to pump to? a filter? so that rules out a fountain, sump and feature pump. You want a pump that can pump the whole bath volume at least once every 4 hours, now all you have to do is to calculate the bath volume and choose a brand of pump you are happy with that can pump the bath volume once every 4 hours.

 :arrow: Some points worthy of note:
Using the overflow as a "feed" to the pump is a bad idea, the reason is you will only take the surface water not the water the fish have "contaminated" You  would be better off using the bottom "plug hole" You can get a pump that will connect directly to this via a 40mm "waste pipe"

Using the "over flow" as a water return is also a bad idea (so are the taps) The reason is you should always "Take from one side and put back opposite" That way all the water goes through the filter, if you used the plug hole and the over flow, the returning water is just sucked down and back out again, not filtering the entire bath water.

Bath taps, although they will look good as a return actually restrict the water quite a lot, this can put a strain on the pump, and will not work well if gravity fed from a filter.

To be honest about it, if it were me (and it isn't) I wouldn't use a bath, I would build a pond, or try the bath with very few fish and lots of plants. (its called balancing a pond, doesn't often work but its worth a try.)

*** Just a brief description


----------



## Egmel (14 Aug 2011)

Super post Martin, very helpful.

I guess a balancing pond is what  my parents and sister have (parents have a bath sister has an old water tank).

Ok, the plan was to pump a waterfall made from the sink with it probably going via a filter.  So if I put the sink above the bath at the opposite end to the plug hole, go out through the plug hole and in through the sink overflow and over the edge back into the bath, then that should cycle nicely.  I can have the sink as a bog garden type affair (i.e. no fish and mainly full of plants/gravel) with the bath housing the fish and other plants.

Cheers for all the info, that has made it much clearer.


----------



## Egmel (19 Sep 2011)

I've come to the conclusion that I'll need a pump which can work dry/inline, connect to 40mm pipes and shift about 2000lph at a head of about 30cm!  Oh, and it'd be nice if it didn't cost me the earth to run!

Any suggestions gratefully accepted, I'm still searching as I've not really seen anything I'm sure I can rely on.


----------



## martin-green (19 Sep 2011)

Egmel said:
			
		

> ......... shift about 2000lph at a head of about 30cm!
> Any suggestions gratefully accepted, I'm still searching as I've not really seen anything I'm sure I can rely on.



Please tell me 2,000 lph is a TYPO
At 2000 Lph in a bath you could almost surf the waves, the average bath when full only holds 200 litres.


----------



## Egmel (8 Dec 2011)

It wasn't actually a typo, from all I'd read I'd been under the impression that if I wanted to pump the water out, up and back in again it would have to be quite a substantial.  Maybe I've done some calcs wrong though...


----------



## MrLarner (8 Dec 2011)

I'd say 2000lph is about right, if anything i'd go abit higher, also, i'd love to see photo's of this when you get around to doing it.


----------



## danmil3s (8 Dec 2011)

shame you only need 2000lph i keep trying to sell my sequence 10000 oh does come with a throttle valve though  and a bargain at only £110.


----------



## martin-green (8 Dec 2011)

Egmel said:
			
		

> It wasn't actually a typo, from all I'd read I'd been under the impression that if I wanted to pump the water out, up and back in again it would have to be quite a substantial.  Maybe I've done some calcs wrong though...


Sorry, but your "calculations" are way off.   

The average bath holds around 200 litres you should "turn over" the entire water volume once every 4 hours minimum.

With a bath volume of only 200 litres that means you only need to pump 50 litres  / hour
Even if you went as high as turning over the water once an hour (Koi pond owners do that) that would only mean 200 litres / hour. 
No way do you need 2,000 litres / hour.

 :arrow: BUT, I think I may have found why you think 2000 LPH for a bath that is only 200 L. I googled and some filters say *MAXIMUM* 2000 LPH 

Have a look at THIS (Other suppliers of pond filters are available) 

3000UVC 3000LTR (660GALS) 150 cm (5’00”) 1500LPH (330GPH)

It clearly shows that for the 3000 model can cope with 1500 LPH *BUT* That is assuming the water volume is 3,000 litres which your bath isn't.

In order for a UV to work the water has to pass by it at the correct speed, if is  too fast it will not work (Not enough exposure time) and with  a 2000 LPH pump that will not only be way too fast for a 200 litre volume, it will also be a waste of money buying a pump that is too big and costly to run.


----------



## dw1305 (9 Dec 2011)

Hi all,
Bath is a good idea, I particularly like the sound of Gill's "_with seats for seating_". Personally I'd sink the bath into the ground so that the top was only just proud of ground level. I know it will involve a bit more digging, but I think you will get the benefits of a lot more physical stability and thermal insulation. I also think the surrounding rock garden is a good ideal as well. I'd physically fill the shallow end of the bath with rock or pebbles so that you have a very shallow/beach area, sparrows etc will drink from this and it will ensure that Hedgehogs etc can get out. If you use a row of fairly large rocks/blocks about 1/3 of the way down the bath they should keep the pebbles in place.

This is my pond and "rocks". <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=123&hilit=garden+photo&start=30>





cheers Darrel


----------



## mjohan (1 Mar 2012)

This looks like a great idea and probably one that will suit you right.  I don't know how the piece of tub would hold up for a sort of permanent thing with being filled up with water.  I mean, it is fine when you have to use it as a tub while taking a bath but I am not sure if it will remain the same, or at least its toughness when you have water on it the whole time. But I guess that would ultimately depend on the quality of material used for it.


----------



## Egmel (1 Mar 2012)

It's a steel bath so I think it'll be fine, the enamel might give up eventually but I'm not that worried about cosmetics!

I like the idea of a rockery bit in the bath, hadn't thought of that, might have to see what I can do, though I don't want to do too much as it will reduce the volume.  Maybe I can make a ledge with swimming space underneath it and a shallow bit above it.... *puts thinking hat on*


----------

