# Aquatics live cancelled.



## Ian Holdich (8 May 2013)

Breaking news - no Aquatics Live 2013 | News | Practical Fishkeeping

This is a real shame, ukaps had a hand in aquatics live. It's a real pity that the uk can't produce a show like the do all over Europe. 

I still think making it more central would be the best idea for an aquatics show.


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## Alastair (8 May 2013)

Agreed its too far for quite alot of people to travel and the cost of travel to London and accomodation is obviously higher than most places.  A shame though as I wanted to go this year


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## Steve Smith (8 May 2013)

That's a real shame.  I really do think that they should look to how European shows are run and take some ideas from that.  Vivarium, for example, was a great show and plenty to see.


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## Iain Sutherland (8 May 2013)

well thats a great shame, i hope that ukaps will have some sort of involvement in either of the other two 'TBC' shows if they go ahead.
On the up side it does mean no black eye and hangover this November


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## Ady34 (8 May 2013)

Bummer is all I can say!
I look forward to the show and a catch up. After 2 years i was just starting to get to know a few faces. Just set up a savings plan too for this years as I have to travel and stay over at least one night, plus parking etc....maybe as said this is a reason for the lack of commitment.
Hey ho, hopefully there will be something of interest this year. Maybe we could all back PFK to organise something as said in the last paragraph of that release.


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## Steve Smith (8 May 2013)

One of the shows mentioned I think is local to me, and didn't sound especially good.  I believe it was a Pet show of some sort, but aquatics wasn't featured very heavily I don't think.


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## BIN578 (8 May 2013)

Pathetic.  Truly Pathetic !  Shame on the organisers and all of the major industry players for allowing this to happen.  You have local, regional and national fishkeeping clubs managing to organise events nationwide, and yet the big guns in our hobby can't manage to keep a two day Aquarist convention like this going. Why ?  Not enough bums on seats ?  Not making ENOUGH profit ?  Oh well, lets give up.  Never mind showing the initiative to try and make it work.  Makes my blood boil.


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## ghostsword (8 May 2013)

If one cannot organize a show in London, with 12 million people.. damm, things are indeed hard..  

There is the London Pet Show, a resounding sucess, always full.. There is Discover Dogs.. another full show.. and this is not profitable enough? Just sad..


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## ghostsword (8 May 2013)

Then the shops wonder why people buy most the kit online..


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## Gary Nelson (8 May 2013)

I've just read on Facebook on Maidenhead Aquatics post news of this and one of the comments from someone is " I never knew events like this were on " .... I think that's the answer and problem rolled into one - a very bad marketing and advertising campaign! .... I mean, the biggest city, some of the biggest names involved and it still did not work???!


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## Gary Nelson (8 May 2013)

Oh and I almost forgot... Bad catering too! I can still taste that scone now!


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## BIN578 (8 May 2013)

Gary Nelson said:


> I've just read on Facebook on Maidenhead Aquatics post news of this and one of the comments from someone is " I never knew events like this were on " .... I think that's the answer and problem rolled into one - a very bad marketing and advertising campaign! .... I mean, the biggest city, some of the biggest names involved and it still did not work???!


 
Those big names are clever enough to advertise their own products though !


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## Iain Sutherland (8 May 2013)

A big problem with last year is PFK didnt support it, im sure there were valid reasons but without PFK  its pretty difficult to get word out and support it to grow....

Does anyone know why fish sales were not allowed?  Is it a licensing issue?  I could only imagine if there were auctions etc over  the weekend that would draw good crowds.

As there is no AL maybe we are due another Green Machine meet and live scaping from someone cool..? last one was before my time here but looked good.


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## BIN578 (8 May 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> A big problem with last year is PFK didnt support it, im sure there were valid reasons but without PFK its pretty difficult to get word out and support it to grow....
> 
> Does anyone know why fish sales were not allowed? Is it a licensing issue? I could only imagine if there were auctions etc over the weekend that would draw good crowds.
> 
> As there is no AL maybe we are due another Green Machine meet and live scaping from someone cool..? last one was before my time here but looked good.


 

Thats outrageous.  The UK's number one aquatic magazine, and they don't support the UK's biggest aquatic event.  Is that actually correct that they did not advertise the event at all ?  If so that is truly reprehensible and one has to question the motives of the magazine.  I wouldn't know cos I stopped reading it years ago.  I would rather read Amazonas any day.


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## Aquadream (8 May 2013)

Probably many people stopped reading PFK. It costs money to buy it after all.
If PFK is to support this kind of event they will need the support of their readers first. The money will have to come from somewhere and in every business they come from sales.
So the question is - What did PFK got out of the previous events? I am quite sure that the answer is next to nothing, because if they had managed to get more business out the Aquatics Live why drop it then?
The problem in present days is that forums grow way more popular than magazines. In fact magazines have to advertise in forums to get enough readers to sell enough prints to sustain business.
While people socialize on forums they don't much socialize in real life and this is the down fall of any public event.
It is easy to sit behind a pc and chat to peeps. It costs nothing extra.
Big events can not happen only by the big guns making it happen, not without the small bullets adding up to the big picture.

So all of you people will have to ask your selves – What did I do to support this event, PFK etc.?

I know that some did a lot, but much many more did nothing. If the many do nothing else, but enjoy the ride they will also have to understand that the ride will be short.


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## BIN578 (8 May 2013)

Aquadream said:


> Probably many people stopped reading PFK. It costs money to buy it after all.
> If PFK is to support this kind of event they will need the support of their readers first. The money will have to come from somewhere and in every business they come from sales.
> So the question is - What did PFK got out of the previous events? I am quite sure that the answer is next to nothing, because if they had managed to get more business out the Aquatics Live why drop it then?
> The problem in present days is that forums grow way more popular than magazines. In fact magazines have to advertise in forums to get enough readers to sell enough prints to sustain business.
> ...


 

The answer to your question, you have aluded to it yourself.... By supporting the event, PFK would be contributing to the hobby, developing interest of more people and doing the right thing. This in turn would improve (some) peoples opinion of them. It might increase circulation (they are forever throwing gifts at their potential readers to subscribe, why then not offer a discount to the event upon showing a coupon in the magazine. That could increase circulation ! Its a shame that so many people think "what do I get out of it" in order to do something in the first place and your post highlights that perfectly.	But I would have thought it was a no brainer that to support such events and to advertise them (advertising on the part of a magazine costs them nothing) would be of benefit to whoever does so. Otherwise why do UKAPS support it ? Simple. To increase awareness of our hobby and hopefully get more people interested. If UKAPS can do it, then Im damn sure PFK can, given that they are part of a rather large publicity house.

Anyway, I personally do not know for sure if they did not support the event, Im going by what someone else has said, but at the end of the day, if they didn't its a poor show.


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## Stu Worrall (8 May 2013)

balls   I was really looking forward to this and had already booked leave so I could help out on the friday.

we need to look into getting a national meet together somehow.  Ill miss watching Iain fall flat on his face again after many many many alcoholic drinks!


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## Piece-of-fish (9 May 2013)

Balls balls balls. Now that is a surprise. It could be seen coming though. Perhaps London and particularly Olympia is just too expensive to run something like that. It was too expensive for exhibitors and organisers likewise. Lots of silly restrictions in law as well, fish sales as an example. Dont bash PFK guys, we dont know for sure how it really was.

I would suggest to people who want to spend couple days socialising with ukaps members, get drunk, get black eyes etc. to consider visting europes biggest events such as Vivarium in Holland or Hanover in Germany. Been twice in first one and once in second and all 3 trips were great. Vivarium has more to offer if you want to spend money on plants and other aquatic related staff and listen to lectures. Hannover offers unique aquascaping contest with the quality standard worth IAPLC top places and super posh shrimp championship with loads of top class specimen on display.

I am definitely going to hannover again next year and most likely vivarium also.
Price wise it will most likely be same or even cheaper than AL even with flights and accomodation.
Bad things happen to good. Part of me is bit happy that there wont be 10 days of hard labour this November 
Lets hope it will be back in 2014.


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## George Farmer (9 May 2013)

I won't go into the full story but it is not PFK's fault at all that this year's event is cancelled.

Please stop bashing PFK without knowing the facts.

Aquatics Live 2012 was publicised in PFK; mag and web.

Cheers,
George


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

BIN578 said:


> The answer to your question, you have aluded to it yourself.... By supporting the event, PFK would be contributing to the hobby, developing interest of more people and doing the right thing. This in turn would improve (some) peoples opinion of them. It might increase circulation (they are forever throwing gifts at their potential readers to subscribe, why then not offer a discount to the event upon showing a coupon in the magazine. That could increase circulation ! Its a shame that so many people think "what do I get out of it" in order to do something in the first place and your post highlights that perfectly.	But I would have thought it was a no brainer that to support such events and to advertise them (advertising on the part of a magazine costs them nothing) would be of benefit to whoever does so. Otherwise why do UKAPS support it ? Simple. To increase awareness of our hobby and hopefully get more people interested. If UKAPS can do it, then Im damn sure PFK can, given that they are part of a rather large publicity house.
> 
> Anyway, I personally do not know for sure if they did not support the event, Im going by what someone else has said, but at the end of the day, if they didn't its a poor show.


That is if the PFK company have money to invest in shows. The money comes from sales. And if i read here that some say they don't read PFK anymore how can anyone expect PFK to support anything? With what?

I have international business and I know these things.

If you think it costs nothing or so little to support Aquatics Live then go ahead and DIY. Let see how easy it is then.

Any company can advertise all day long, but if people like you don't buy then it is over.

The reason that PFK supported Aquatics Live for two years and then retracted is because they did not get support in return. Fewer and fewer readers are buyng their magazines out competed by the Internet every day more and more.

So before anyone criticize too much and open big mouth, start your own business, support events and see how it goes.


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## James Marshall (9 May 2013)

I'm gutted that its cancelled, i've really enjoyed meeting up with the UKaps members that attend, and will sorely miss the opportunity to do so.
I'd like to echoe what george said, PFK have done everything they could to support the show, and i'm sure they would continue to do so, were the show running.
Such a specialist interest show is always going to be of risk to the organisers, and really needs to be handled by a company large enough to take a loss for the first 3-5 years whilst they build the show's reputation. Even then there is no guarantee of success or profit. I'd say well done to "On Show Events" for putting their necks on the block and giving it a try.

Cheers,
James


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## ghostsword (9 May 2013)

I also do not buy PFK, and not because I want stuff for free, after all I do subscribe (pay) to other online magazines. The reason I do not subscribe to PFK is that for me, the magazine is pretty lame.

And that may be the reason others do not support it, getting stuff for free may not be the reason.

Been to Vivarium, and it was amazing, well worth the trip, and I am sure if something similar was done in the UK people would come from far and wide to see it. Maybe do something similar to vivarium either in London, or in another major city.. not in the sticks, otherwise no one would go.
Mix reptiles, insects, and fish tanks, big following in the UK, and in Europe.

There is the London Pet Show soon, and it will be a sell out.. Why can't the companies get a stand there? Too expensive maybe? So you got to spend money to make money. 

I feel that for the UK "afficionado" keep looking at Europe, and buy online, if the companies do not keep up, buy from the competition, pretty simple.


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## BIN578 (9 May 2013)

Aquadream said:


> That is if the PFK company have money to invest in shows. The money comes from sales. And if i read here that some say they don't read PFK anymore how can anyone expect PFK to support anything? With what?
> 
> I have international business and I know these things.
> 
> ...


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## Steve Smith (9 May 2013)

Jesus.  Quit bickering all of you.  It's like reading the Daily Mail website comments section!  Everyone seems to be jumping on their high horses.  I don't see why PFK are getting dragged into this either.

Keep it civil or keep it shut.


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## Gary Nelson (9 May 2013)

But what about those scones?


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## Steve Smith (9 May 2013)

As long as that's sc"ons" and not sc"owns" and the cream goes on first!


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## BIN578 (9 May 2013)

Gary Nelson said:


> But what about those scones?


 
Scones ?  Whose making scones ?  Mmmmm cheese, my favourite !  Actually Im quite gutted that the event wont be going ahead, it would have been a good opportunity to meet some new people and get some bargains from what I heard of last year.  Is there really no way that organisers could find an alternative, more profitable venue ?  Birmingham would actually be more sensible IMO, even though it would be further for me to travel.


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## BIN578 (9 May 2013)

Steve Smith said:


> As long as that's sc"ons" and not sc"owns" and the cream goes on first!


 
Hmm, how does HRH pronounce it ?


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## Iain Sutherland (9 May 2013)

apologies steve, i bought up PFK without thinking it would cause problems.
Its all about the ££ and i have sympathy for any businesses that would like to support such an event but simply cant afford the outlay with every chance of little return either on the day or retrospective sales, including said magazine.  I know its not cheap taking part!

On a personal note its a great shame, no doubt our lovely founders and admins are considering other possibilities already.  Maybe someone like MA would like to host a ukaps meet and have some tanks scaped on the night by our green fingered experts?  What ever happens im always happy to support any such event as long as we can have a beer of 12 after  

oh, not forgetting some delicious scones for gary.... and maybe an ice pack or two for any minor drink related accidents...


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Its all about the ££ and i have sympathy for any businesses that would like to support such an event but simply cant afford the outlay with every chance of little return either on the day or retrospective sales, including said magazine. I know its not cheap taking part!


This is the common sense everyone should have.
The world is in crisis and it is not easy to come up with money for big events.
I am sure better days will come again.


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

People can you please cut the PFK slander?
If anyone wants to moan about what they don't like please open another tread.

Honestly If I have to support any event for people to bash the crap out of me, HELL I wouldn't.

Do thousand things right and everyone "loves" you just untill you do one thing "wrong".


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## Ian Holdich (9 May 2013)

As said by George, this has nothing to do with pfk. It goes a little further than that. The are plenty of other ways that people can advertise successfully. 

Please don't make me lock this thread.


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## Piece-of-fish (9 May 2013)

Small amount of nature style articles for tiny amount of the whole hobby, dont forget that.

Hannover everyone again! Who is in?


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## Ian Holdich (9 May 2013)

I'm in!


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## Steve Smith (9 May 2013)

Deleted Nanocube's useless comments as blatantly someone registering to have a pop at PFK and nothing else constructive.

I'm wielding the mod stick good and hard.


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## srm1973 (9 May 2013)

I'd be interested in attending Vivarium, where and when is it held?


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## srm1973 (9 May 2013)

Just read that Vivarium 2012 was the last one, and they are looking for new sponsors


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## Iain Sutherland (9 May 2013)

id be very interested in Hannover, dates allowing, however i absolve all responsibility now for any German beer repercussions


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## srm1973 (9 May 2013)

Its Jan 24  - Jan 26th 2014


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## BIN578 (9 May 2013)

Steve Smith said:


> Deleted Nanocube's useless comments as blatantly someone registering to have a pop at PFK and nothing else constructive.
> 
> I'm wielding the mod stick good and hard.


 
Just how we like it   And I would like to withdraw any comments aimed at PFK.  They were based on the fact someone had stated that PFK had not supported/advertised the 2012 event which George has now clarified as being incorrect.  Had it been true, I would stand by my remarks but as its not they are null and void 

Now, onto the topic of what to do about no AL2013.  Surely guys with as many contacts as the UKAPS founders can round up the troops from several of the big boys in the industry to look at an alternative.  Olympia has to be one of the most expensive venues in the country ?  Does it need to be there ?  My guess is that there must be loads of alternatives, and probably doesn't even have to be in London.  Stevenage or Luton could be good alternatives, or somewhere along that belt that has easy transport access.  Im thinking if the biggies were to back the event that all the contributors and stands from previous years would take part.  Maybe try and include some of the major ichthyological groups such as the BCA, BKA etc (who probably dont have significant enough funding much like UKAPS but who do have reasonable access to large numbers of fishy people) and you could find that this would work.  Im just thinking pie in the sky ideas at the moment and Im sure there are brains far better than mine and better versed in organising events, but I truly believe that its still a feasible event.  Whats the issue with selling fish by the way ?  Fish clubs nationwide hold auctions all the time ?  That ought to be a huge draw.


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## James Marshall (10 May 2013)

ghostsword said:


> I also do not buy PFK, and not because I want stuff for free, after all I do subscribe (pay) to other online magazines. The reason I do not subscribe to PFK is that for me, the magazine is pretty lame..


 
Thank you Luis, I’m sure that Myself, George and any other contributors to PFK magazine that post here will find your comments very encouraging.

If you have any suggestions for ways in which we could make the magazine less lame please feel free to share them with us, as your opinion is very valuable.

I really appreciate your honesty and I will endeavor to employ a similar level of honesty and constructive criticism when passing comment on your work.

Thanks again,
James


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## srm1973 (10 May 2013)

Hmmm hint of sarcasm there. I think if people have an opinion on pfk magazine and want to share it then they should, I to do not buy the magazine because I feel the content does not warrant me paying out £4 odd each month

Sent from my U8510 using Tapatalk 2


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## BIN578 (10 May 2013)

The kind of sarcasm employed in James Starr-Marshall's comment above is really an indication of why a lot of people have stopped reading PFK. It seems the petulance of those who run it is matched by some of those who contribute to its content. And I feel sure there will be no moderator coming along and wielding their moderator stick at James since he is such good friends with the founders of UKAPS but his post is no better than some of the previous ones on this thread. Despite SteveUK telling everyone to drop the aggro on this thread, Mr Marshall has come along and stuck his oar in too. But then thats ok cos he's mates with those who count most on here.

James, if people think a magazine is lame (and trust me, Luis is by far not the only one, this opinion stretches into plenty of other fields of our hobby; I know marine guys, cichlid guys end plenty of general hobbyists and even Local Fish Retailers who are no longer interested in it) then they should have the right to say so. He has not slandered them, he has just expressed an opinion on it. You of course will feel differently since you have contributed articles to it, but surely, even with your obvious talent, you have not become so self obsessed that you believe you are beyond criticism ? Or has all the endless praise that your scapes get on here blinded you to the fact that no one is perfect ? Seriously, I would have expected you to set an example on this.


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## James Marshall (10 May 2013)

I thought the idea of forums was to offer contstructive criticism. If I were to post on someone's journal and say that "for me the aquascape is pretty lame" I would expect them to somewhat offended, as a comment of this nature offers little or no help. It might be worth mentioning that myself and Luis are friends and have got along well on the numerous ocassions that we have met, and i'm sure this is something we will continue to do.
However, seeing as I have obviously offended people by what I considered to be a bit of light hearted banter between friends, I will try my best accept unconstructive criticism without passing comment.

Cheers,
James


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## Alastair (10 May 2013)

something definitely more central like birmingham like you mentioned would be much better I think if ever there was something. There are a lot of ukaps members who like myselfare much further up north and as much as aquatics live looked so good, thr thought of having to travel all that way and the cost etc is quite off putting. 
Vivarium etc is slightly different as its kind of like a holiday to me so id be going. 
Following on iains comment on a green machine meet I think that would be a great idea.  Maybe this is something that could be started as a new thread to see what interest their is as I for one would like to finally get to meet people off here
Plus cup of teas will prevent iains mishaps


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## Iain Sutherland (10 May 2013)

come on people give it a rest, i feel bad for mentioning PFK to start with and think some of you have forgotten the real issue here.....some people still think cream goes on a scone before the jam


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## BIN578 (10 May 2013)

James Marshall said:


> I thought the idea of forums was to offer contstructive criticism. If I were to post on someone's journal and say that "for me the aquascape is pretty lame" I would expect them to somewhat offended, as a comment of this nature offers little or no help. It might be worth mentioning that myself and Luis are friends and have got along well on the numerous ocassions that we have met, and i'm sure this is something we will continue to do.
> However, seeing as I have obviously offended people by what I considered to be a bit of light hearted banter between friends, I will try my best accept unconstructive criticism without passing comment.
> 
> Cheers,
> James


 
Im sorry James but how are people expected to know you are friends with Luis ?  In the absence of that knowledge you must admit how your post will have come across, obviously to me and no doubt to a lot of new members on here or those who are not aware of your acquaintances.  You are right, the main purpose of a forum for support and constructive help where appropriate, but that does not deny the fact that people are entitled to their opinion and sadly PFK leave themselves open to that kind of comment.  It may have been better if Luis had qualified his comment about the mag being lame.  I happen to share that opinion on the whole BUT I do like your articles and the others on anything to do with planted aquaria.  So perhaps everone is in the wrong here, me included for jumping in when I was not aware of your friendship with Luis.  But hey, like I said I was not to know that and if it looked like sour grapes to me I can't have been the only one.

Anyway, like Iain has said, and SteveUK lets all drop the antagonism.  The whole thing of AL being cancelled has obviously upset us all and I for one hope we can move forward and look for ways that UKAPS and other organisations can seek a way to keep it going.   Hope you will accept my apology, I tend to say things as I see em   Sometimes Im wrong


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## BIN578 (10 May 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> come on people give it a rest, i feel bad for mentioning PFK to start with and think some of you have forgotten the real issue here.....some people still think cream goes on a scone before the jam


 
Where does the butter go ?  I hope you dont just eat it with jam and cream ! (clotted of course)


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## Alastair (10 May 2013)

Big slab of butter followed by jam and a massive dollop of clotted cream nom nom


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## Steve Smith (10 May 2013)

OK, if people want to discuss the good and bad about the contents of PFK magazine then please go discuss it with them on their own forum.  I don't wish for UKAPS to get dragged into any slagging off of the publication.  PFK has been a good friend to UKAPS, as can be seen by the number of our members who have had their aquascapes featured in the magazine (unpaid of course) and by the fact that some of our members sometimes write for the magazine.  This does not mean we are in their pockets, or anything nefarious like that, of course.

I'm not saying that people aren't entitled to their opinions on the content of the publication, I have no problem with someone not buying it because they don't find it fulfills their ideal of a fish based magazine.  I do however have issues with the way some of these views are being aired in a non-constructive, almost poisonous manner.  The tone of these comments, to me, is not acceptable.

No more discussion about PFK content please.  That's a completely different conversation to the fact that Aquatics Live has been cancelled this year, and everyone appears to have had their 2 pence worth now.  People seem to be forgetting that the reasons stated by the AL organisers is lack of commitment by sponsors/vendors.  They had had vendors say they'd be there, but not committing to it by actually coughing up for a stand.  If you don't have the finances in place to organise the event then clearly you can't hold that event.

Again, keep the conversation civil.  I'm in no mood to be dealing with bitchy comments and sniping at the moment.  *You have been warned*.


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## ghostsword (10 May 2013)

James Marshall said:


> Thank you Luis, I’m sure that Myself, George and any other contributors to PFK magazine that post here will find your comments very encouraging.
> 
> If you have any suggestions for ways in which we could make the magazine less lame please feel free to share them with us, as your opinion is very valuable.
> 
> ...


 
James, had you, George and other Aquascapers contributed solely to PFK probably it would be worth me buying the magazine. After all I subscribe to other fish and planted tank related magazines.

Get a magazine, even if just online, where you, George, and other aquascapers write articles, test filters, lights, review new tools and techniques for the hobby and surely a lot of people would subscribe.  I would..


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## Juliusz (10 May 2013)

My daughter will be so upset.

She enjoyed both previous shows and I promised her the kids aquascaping this year (if it were planned). Gutted, absolutely gutted.

PS. Found an alternative: en: AQUAZOO has come to and end!


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## ghostsword (10 May 2013)

That is true.. the kids really had a great time..


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## linkinruss (10 May 2013)

and when i went i bought one of those flying fish!!
will miss it


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## ghostsword (10 May 2013)

What are the legalities of selling fish? 

There should be Aquarium Fairs, like there is Computer Fairs, that would be really cool..


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## BIN578 (10 May 2013)

ghostsword said:


> What are the legalities of selling fish?
> 
> There should be Aquarium Fairs, like there is Computer Fairs, that would be really cool..


 
Hi Luis, Im not sure on the legalities but I know that fishkeeping clubs nationwide hold events and auctions where people bring their fish along and auction them off.  If that can happen then it must be possible to sell them at something like an AL type event I would have thought.


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## LondonDragon (10 May 2013)

Been off sick for the last week and did not have the chance to comment on this, its very well to start bashing people, but those that are bashing people/companies/publications and were not at AL then you are just as much to blame also for not making the effort to attend and support the event.

I have to agree the first event was better than last year overall and I did mention a couple of times that I would be surprised if it happened again has attendance was much lower in the second show, I do not know if it was about money or politics as I am not involved in organizing the event, I just enjoyed contributing towards it has an hobbyist that shares a passion for planted tanks and wanted to spread the word, I would have been there again this year if it was going ahead.

The *ONE* thing that let it down was the fact that no one in London or anywhere else in the country was aware that the event was taking place, other than the people that frequent UKAPS and (read) PFK, even on the day before the event and during the event you would hardly notice the event was even there unless you went past the back road where the entrance was. This was the major downfall of AL, it was just not well publicized and most people did not know about it.

Then there were not enough clubs attending the event, again not sure if it was due to organizers but this would be the best way to get people to attend, not being able to sell fish was a major down also as people expect to be able to do that as most local club meets/events, they could even have included an auction of some sort in there.

Then there was the issue of lack of entertainment for the kids, kids got in there was there wasn't much for them to do again they would get bored pretty quickly and their parents probably rushed a little. UKAPS did try and have a play area for kids and did encourage kids to try stuff with some tanks hardscaping and some plastic plants but its hard to do it all since most of our work was with the competition and promoting the actual planted tank scene.

Food was also expensive but this is London and food is expensive at all the events no matter where you attend them in London.

There was good things about it, the stands were great, companies made a real effort, there were great tanks in display, there were lots of dry good/equipment to buy, last year we had FWS with a great selection of shrimp and mosses, you could buy plenty of plants at the show too.

The talks were great, very informative and even I learned a thing or two from them, although more variety from year to year would be nice but it was a nice selection from very interesting speakers.

The public that attended were great also, asking lots of questions, really curious about the planted tanks, engaging with the competition scapers and asking them questions as they scaped away, really good fun.

Its a shame that it will not happen this year but hopefully it will happen again in the near future and some of these issues can be addressed to make it an even better and bigger event, maybe then it will draw in crowds from Europe too, but its just to small at the moment to do that, even the mighty Vivarium fell, for me the best show I have ever attended.

Not to go OT here, but I have been a subscriber to PFK since 2006, even before I knew about UKAPS, some of you think its "lame" sure for people in this forum it will be lame, the magazine tries to cover the needs of the fish keeping world which is a large area to cover, its not a planted tank magazine, in covering so much it will always be lame for most people since it doesn't cater 100% for any particular fish keeper, but if you like fish keeping in general and want to make sure there is a UK magazine on the shelves that supports the hobby then the only way to ensure it stays there is to subscribe to it, the recent planted tank articles are great and I love reading about other areas of fish keeping that I am not involved in also, I will not visit a reef forum, or a cichlids forum, a discus forum, so when articles come up in the magazine about it, its when I read something about those areas that I would not look into otherwise.

Look forward to more positive news in the future and maybe people will look at this thread and think, yes that is where we went wrong and now we need to correct all those issues and make it a great event, I can only hope 

Peace and now to bed as my back is killing me!


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## OllieNZ (11 May 2013)

Oh Blast!
I'd already booked the Friday off to come help with the ukaps stand.
I was looking forwards to putting more faces to names and catching up with those I met last year


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## LondonDragon (11 May 2013)

OllieNZ said:


> Oh Blast!
> I'd already booked the Friday off to come help with the ukaps stand.
> I was looking forwards to putting more faces to names and catching up with those I met last year


Guess you won't be needing the sofa afterall!!


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## Steve Smith (11 May 2013)

UKAPS beers at Paulo's that weekend anyway?  All in favour say Aye!


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## oscarsi001 (11 May 2013)

Is there a website for Vivarium ? tried googling it but to no avail ............


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## LondonDragon (11 May 2013)

oscarsi001 said:


> Is there a website for Vivarium ? tried googling it but to no avail ............


Vivarium has also been cancelled


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## OllieNZ (11 May 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Guess you won't be needing the sofa afterall!!


Just to add to the debate, even with Paulo's offer I was still going to end up spending more for the weekend in London than the entire trip to Holland for Vivaruim cost me


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## OllieNZ (11 May 2013)

Steve Smith said:


> UKAPS beers at Paulo's that weekend anyway? All in favour say Aye!


 How about at yours? you're in a more central location


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## oscarsi001 (11 May 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Vivarium has also been cancelled


 
 , dammit , just as i was starting to get ecited .........


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## nayr88 (11 May 2013)

That's a real shame, the pictures looked so good I was determined to go this time.

Still adc do some good mini events I'm sure we could get together and contact them about doing another. I know it won't be the same but there's the more 'personal touch' that a mini event for us lot would provide. 

Where one fails an opportunity arises for others to succeed. Tgm adc pfk could provide us with plenty of opportunity to meet as a group of plant/fish obsessed geeks with open wallets haha


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## nayr88 (11 May 2013)

OllieNZ - nice avatar mate  
Sorry had to mention it


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## George Farmer (11 May 2013)

UKAPS at Festival of Fishkeeping is happening. Details soon.


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## Steve Smith (11 May 2013)

Woo! Been a few years since I've been there.  Always fun


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## LondonDragon (11 May 2013)

George Farmer said:


> UKAPS at Festival of Fishkeeping is happening. Details soon.


Great stuff, looking forward to coming down for that one


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## ghostsword (11 May 2013)

George Farmer said:


> UKAPS at Festival of Fishkeeping is happening. Details soon.




What is the date? Looks like good news..  


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## sparkyweasel (11 May 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> . . . you are just as much to blame also for not making the effort to attend and support the event.
> . . . no one in London or anywhere else in the country was aware that the event was taking place . . .


 




LondonDragon said:


> . . . attendance was much lower in the second show . . .


That suggests people weren't too impressed the first time, they didn't all come back and bring all their friends.


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## fish fodder (12 May 2013)

Chicken and rice is nice for the right price but done eat it twice (sorry, just trying to lighten the mood)


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## Henry (12 May 2013)

Are there any shows that aren't down south?


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## ghostsword (14 May 2013)

If one day there is a Vivarium styles show, with reptiles, aquatics, vivariums and insects, it will surely be a sold out affair. 

There is a big market for that in the UK.. 

Make it in Birmingham, or Manchester, and you will have no issues filling it out.


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## andyh (14 May 2013)

George Farmer said:


> UKAPS at Festival of Fishkeeping is happening. Details soon.


 Hey George, is this held in Weston Super Mare?
Never been, is it any good?


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## Steve Smith (14 May 2013)

I think its Middlesex this year Andy.


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## ghostsword (14 May 2013)

FBAS Festival of Fishkeeping announces new venue for 2013 | News | Practical Fishkeeping

*The Festival of Fishkeeping will be held at Hounslow Urban Farm, MIddlesex on September 7-8 2013.*

*I am gutted that I am not in the country for this.. 

If people want aquatics events to be a success, then they need to support it, market it with their friends and family and actually turn up.*


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## OllieNZ (14 May 2013)

ghostsword said:


> If one day there is a Vivarium styles show, with reptiles, aquatics, vivariums and insects, it will surely be a sold out affair.
> 
> There is a big market for that in the UK..
> 
> Make it in Birmingham, or Manchester, and you will have no issues filling it out.


 
Totally agree Luis,
the larger variety of stuff would attract more people and potentially pull more people into differing aspects of the hobby that is keeping stuff in a glass box. If I'd had more cash I would have walked out of Vivarium with a full dart frog setup and frogs.
I was planning on going to Holland again this year for the show so travelling to Manchester or Birmingham for a good show would be a no brainer.


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## Steve Smith (14 May 2013)

An indicator of how a combined show would potentially be more successful is the number of Aquatics shops that have branched out into reptiles.   Most of my local places (including pets at home) sell reptiles/live food etc.


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## ghostsword (14 May 2013)

Vivarium was simply amazing, and I am sure that something like that would be great to see in the UK.

I got a emersed tank at home, just a large rock, moss, some echinodorus, crypts, and bromeliads at the back.. Would love to add some crabs to it..  

There is a market for this, and the tools can be interchangeable, allowing people to move to and fro both.


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