# Tmc micro habitat



## mdhardy01 (3 Oct 2010)

Hi guys
Am thinking of getting a tmc micro habitat as featured in pfk
Question is would one of these be ok for shrimp if so how many and
What type would you recommend ?
I like cherries but would crs be ok not top grades but lower
And how many would you recommend 
Thanks 
Matt


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## mdhardy01 (4 Oct 2010)

Anyone?


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## Tom (4 Oct 2010)

It'll be fine provided they can't get sucked through the filter grills, and you could maybe try 5-10 to start. Throw in some moss and you'll end up with hundreds, no exaggeration.

Tom


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## mdhardy01 (4 Oct 2010)

Thanks Tom 
Would crs be ok? 
And yes I thought about doing a scape a bit like the one George did in pfk but covering the wood in moss and trying a hc carpet 
Mat


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## a1Matt (4 Oct 2010)

I expect CRS would be fine, lower grade ones are not as tricky as made out to be.
but if your just starting out int he shrimp world I would go for the cherries as they are super tough


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## Themuleous (4 Oct 2010)

Some of the micro fish like the boraras species I think would be ok in this tank, but I dare say not all will agree.

Sam


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## mdhardy01 (4 Oct 2010)

My daughter has 6 of those in her tank and I swear you could keep them in a pint glass with a twice daily water change they are that small!!!


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## Tom (4 Oct 2010)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Some of the micro fish like the boraras species I think would be ok in this tank, but I dare say not all will agree.
> 
> Sam



I'd agree, so long as they don't jump. I had problems with that in small tanks.


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## Shrimptastic (4 Oct 2010)

erm, if you want to play fish, ANY fish (even otocinculus), then please dont use crs (even low grades). Use cherries  They look just as nice, if not nicer, and if you get really nice cherries, they cost loads more than low grade CRS. Besides, i personally think that grade A, B and C CRS look really really ugly, but thats of course personal pref. I'd rather go for cherries. If you want, you could try going for yellow shrimp (yellow variation of cherry shrimp). They are exotic too, but with the hardiness of the cherry shrimp. And they look nice ^^

Shrimp tanks should be pure shrimp tanks, if u want to do any serious shrimp keeping. but if the emphasis is on your landscape, cherries are better.


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## mr. luke (6 Oct 2010)

Shrimptastic said:
			
		

> erm, if you want to play fish, ANY fish (even otocinculus), then please dont use crs (even low grades). Use cherries  They look just as nice, if not nicer, and if you get really nice cherries, they cost loads more than low grade CRS. Besides, i personally think that grade A, B and C CRS look really really ugly, but thats of course personal pref. I'd rather go for cherries. If you want, you could try going for yellow shrimp (yellow variation of cherry shrimp). They are exotic too, but with the hardiness of the cherry shrimp. And they look nice ^^
> 
> Shrimp tanks should be pure shrimp tanks, if u want to do any serious shrimp keeping. but if the emphasis is on your landscape, cherries are better.



100% disagree.
Once shrimps are settled into there environment they will behave as they would without fish presnt if there is no risk of predation.
My shrimps often swim midwater in my nano and that is stocked witha  range of nano fish.

Whats your objection to crs with fish? 
Id say low grade crs are just as hardy as a half decent cherry shrimp.


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## a1Matt (6 Oct 2010)

:text-+1: what Luke said.  

You have to be very careful with your fish choice, but as long as you are, then shrimps are fine with them  (eg. I keep boraras brigittae and shrimp together).

I'd go for just 5 of whatever shrimp you put in.


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## Luketendo (6 Oct 2010)

Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm getting the same tank and want to keep CRS. I've kept and of course they bred, Cherry shrimp but I want to know what would be the best grade CRS to start off with? Don't worry I'm not gonna keep any fish.


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## Shrimptastic (6 Oct 2010)

lol, mate. Fish eat shrimp, fullstop. Even if they don't eat the big ones, they eat the small ones. Even otocinculus, one of the only shrimp safe fish, scare the living daylights out of shrimp (sometimes), and stress can kill them. You are right in that it is possible to keep cherry shrimp or crs with a whole load of other fish, but its a difference between having 20 cherry shrimp grow to a total size of 25 shrimp after 2 months, as opposed to 20 cherry shrimp growing to a total size of 200 after 2 months. The babies just get massacred most of the time.

at any rate, ur right about low grade crs (grades A,B and C) and cherry shrimp. But if i'm gonna keep a mosura, or a king kong, no way i'm letting even an otocinculus fry get near to them. lol! although of course i understand that this thread is about low grade crs.

maybe its just me  maybe i just dont like low grade crs. The see through bits of them are a little off-putting. I'd go solid cherries any day over them. Fire reds ^^

*waves a big banner saying "get cherries instead" on it*

Anyway, back to your point about my point about fish and shrimp, try visiting some websites on shrimp keeping, they all say the same thing. Best shrimp tanks are shrimp only tanks  You know why I know this? Because I've always wanted to keep mini fishes with my shrimps, just because  but i've never had yet found one solid report stating that it is a good idea. Not from any of the "pro breeder" sites that I've visited, or through convos from breeders that I personally know.

I have to admit tho, I have a single otocinulus in my tank. He is taking forever to die. lol :X


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## mdhardy01 (7 Oct 2010)

Shrimptastic said:
			
		

> although of course i understand that this thread is about low grade crs.



sorry to be a pain but the original thread was how many i could keep in this tank and recommendations
my reason for asking about low grade crs is that i have never kept them before and thought the lower grades would be a bit hardier than higher grades i have and do keep cherries in my 500ltr (thanks sam) wich breed well i just thought that crs even lower grades would look visually better in a smaller tank

thanks 
matt


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## dw1305 (7 Oct 2010)

Hi all,
The main problem with all the really small volume tanks is that it is very hard to maintain any form of stability, as you haven't got any buffering or "economies of scale". As an example they heat up and cool down very quickly because of the lack of thermal mass. A tank of 500 litres is easier to manage than one of 50 litres, and once you are getting under 10litres they are inherently very unstable indeed. I'd go for a very low bio-load (5 shrimps sounds fine), low tech and place the tank somewhere where you can keep a good eye on it. Personally I'd also do a 30% water change every day.

cheers Darrel


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## Shrimptastic (7 Oct 2010)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> Shrimptastic said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To be honest, whatever you think looks visually better, IS visually better. End of story.  It's your tank after all.

So you want to keep crs? well, i have some high grade ones so i'll just share what I know. 6.5pH, 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, shelter, don't overfeed, 23-24 degrees temp. Don't expect them to breed in the presence of fish, but do expect them to survive. (They should)

CRS ARE NOT = cherries.

In the end, you must remember that all CRS are, in essence, mutants, while cherries aren't really. They are just wild-type with smaller gene pools. ^^ Thats possibly why CRS are harder to keep, but its obviously only 1 of the reasons.


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## Shrimptastic (7 Oct 2010)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> The main problem with all the really small volume tanks is that it is very hard to maintain any form of stability, as you haven't got any buffering or "economies of scale". As an example they heat up and cool down very quickly because of the lack of thermal mass. A tank of 500 litres is easier to manage than one of 50 litres, and once you are getting under 10litres they are inherently very unstable indeed. I'd go for a very low bio-load (5 shrimps sounds fine), low tech and place the tank somewhere where you can keep a good eye on it. Personally I'd also do a 30% water change every day.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Please don't do 30% water change everyday. I'm sorry, but your shrimp will die if you do that. lol. You aren't keeping a stingray or an arrowana. You're keeping shrimp, and they can't handle such drastic water changes all the time.Other than this, daniel is right.


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## mdhardy01 (7 Oct 2010)

The tank is going to be planted so plenty of shelter I use ro on my 500 ltr so ph 6.5 no probs 
It's going to be in my living room so watched all the time (this is also where I have my big one)
I had planed low tech and just topping up so no large water changes to keep the water as stable as pos
Many thanks 
Matt


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## Shrimptastic (7 Oct 2010)

*Re:*



			
				mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> The tank is going to be planted so plenty of shelter I use ro on my 500 ltr so ph 6.5 no probs
> It's going to be in my living room so watched all the time (this is also where I have my big one)
> I had planed low tech and just topping up so no large water changes to keep the water as stable as pos
> Many thanks
> Matt




Good choice. Keep the water parameters in check, and u shud be fine. I know people who BREED (not simply keep alive) really really high grade shrimp in tanks that are smaller than yours. But i guess the diff is that they obviously have no fish in there. Cancel the factors out (low grade shrimp but with fish) and you may just have yourself a nice tank  go for it, goodluck


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## mdhardy01 (7 Oct 2010)

Many thanks not sure if I'm going to add fish might just start with the crs and see how it goes


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## mdhardy01 (8 Oct 2010)

Just one more quick question 
What would you recommend as a substrate?
I'm thinking of Acadama but some say Ada aquasoil
What would be best
Many thanks
Matt


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## dw1305 (8 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> Please don't do 30% water change everyday. I'm sorry, but your shrimp will die if you do that. lol.


 First of all an apology but its certainly not true in my experience. I'd be interested in the reason for this, if your shrimps are dying with a larger water change? it is almost certainly because you have a water quality issue, but not to do with the water changes as such. 

I've got shrimp breeding in tanks where the water change is several 100% a day (trickle through systems), and I routinely change 50% - 75%  of the water in all of the smaller tanks if I've been away for more than a few days, and I change approx. 10% a day in all tanks smaller than 100 litres. You say you are not keeping Stingrays or Arrowana, but if you look a the "bio-load to volume of water" ratio in very small tanks you are actually dealing with very similar numbers. 

It is very difficult to meaningfully measure the level of pollution and  bioload of any aquaria (this has been part of my "day job") so assuming you do have a suitable source of water, dilution remains a very useful weapon in retaining water quality.

cheers Darrel


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## ghostsword (8 Oct 2010)

I got an acrylic nano, about 6L and I do a 1L water change change daily. No shrimp deaths yet, however I only got 5 shrimp in there, a mix of yellows and cherries. Maybe the CRS are more susceptible to WC. 

Shrimp are from rivers, and there is a lot of water movement on rivers, so I would assume that they like fresh water.


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

That's an interesting point, luis, I'd never considered that, this would surely suggest shrimps are high co2, rivine, type animals and as such would need elevated levles of o2? If that's the case i'd bet my bottom dollar a lot of deaths could well be o2 starvation.


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## mdhardy01 (8 Oct 2010)

And rivers are not like lakes or ponds the water parameters can change fairly quickly after heavy rainfall for example however most of the shrimp that we buy are generally tank bred and therefore are use to fairly stable conditions 
As for liking o2 I think this is right as when co2 is added my shrimp head for the surface where there is more gas exchange and where the water will be more o2 enriched 
My thoughts anyway 
Matt


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## ghostsword (8 Oct 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> That's an interesting point, luis, I'd never considered that, this would surely suggest shrimps are high co2, rivine, type animals and as such would need elevated levles of o2? If that's the case i'd bet my bottom dollar a lot of deaths could well be o2 starvation.



It could be one of the many reasons liquid carbon kills them. 

After seeing where they got CRS first, the small rivers looked very fast flowing, and there were not a lot of vegetation in the middle, just large boulders. I think that I read about it on a PFK magazine about 6 months ago.


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## ghostsword (8 Oct 2010)

The shrimp article were on the July 2009 PFK.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3140


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

Yes, I remember the article, I think I read it more than any in the recent pfks, I just never put two and two together, it would also explain why alot of people are reporting that their shrimps are much more reproductive when kept cooler and have access to leaf litter, that in turn would encourage biodiversity in the form of microcolinatores that would in turn feed the shrimps, it would also explain why a lot of people report that their shrimp don't really eat algae instead eating biological waste from filter sponges etc. 

(please excuse my spelling, I'm on a laptop with no spell cheque and I'm pretty much lost without it).


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## dw1305 (8 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> As for liking o2 I think this is right as when co2 is added my shrimp head for the surface where there is more gas exchange and where the water will be more o2 enriched


 I think this is correct, the enhanced CO2 levels will be sensed by the shrimps which will head for the more oxygenated water at the tanks surface, if you look at this from a "shrimps eye view" the water surface is a very risky place to be, so it needs to be quite a strong selective pressure to get them to do this. 

Symptoms of "respiratory distress" are unlikely directly from low oxygen levels, but are more likely to be caused by high levels of CO2 in the water. Without a sharp gradient between CO2 levels in the "blood" (haemolymph) and CO2 levels in the water, it becomes increasingly difficult for the CO2 in the shrimps "blood" to diffuse out across their gill surfaces into the water. This analogous to the "Bohr" effect. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect> in vertebrates (the O2/CO2 carrying respiratory pigment in crustacean is haemocyanin with a central copper molecule, rather than haemoglobin with a central iron molecule). 

cheers Darrel


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## ghostsword (8 Oct 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Yes, I remember the article, I think I read it more than any in the recent pfks,



It was a fantastic article.. I think that it was the last pfk I purchased.  

But yes, sometimes we need to look at nature for tips on how to keep our critters.. we do not always know best. 

After reading that article I wanted to setup a 100cm tank with just emersed plants, rivers rocks and two koralias to mimick a river with the flow.


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > Please don't do 30% water change everyday. I'm sorry, but your shrimp will die if you do that. lol.
> ...




fair enough, everyone has personal experiences  maybe your cherries are just that bada$$, lol! but if it works for you, it works for you. Just out of interest tho, whats ur highest grade shrimp for which you do 30% water changes a day? coz i won't dare do that for sss crs. ever. lol.

OH yes, and if i might just add my own experiences. I'm using an approximately 50-80 litre tank. dont know exactly. But anyway, i keep deep blue orange eyed tiger shrimp (same fragility as a sss, roughly) and i dont have a single casualty.

And, I haven't changed the water for... 6 weeks 

Not once in 6 weeks.


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## ghostsword (8 Oct 2010)

By the way.. 

They are selling the small tanks on ebay.. Looks very similar to the betta and tmc ones, but for only Â£49 including postage.
Look for Acrylic Nano Cube Aquarium Tropical Fish Tank.


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

but i must admit, 6 weeks is a bit excessive. but dont worry, i know what im doing. for the starter of this thread. i highly recommended a wc every 4-6 days, approximately. try 10% each time.


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## Anubia (8 Oct 2010)

I have kept mixed Biotopes of both nano fish and CRS without concern. This is not to say that any small fish species like raspbora's and the ilk will not attempt to snaffle young juvenile shrimp. I think the comment here is to say ' If the fishes mouth is big enough then it will attempt to snack on them.

I think if you provide dense planting schemes and hiding places where the shrimp can go about their natural way and then fish are fed adequatly then I perceive no problem with a mixed biotope.

In my opinion the TMC Micro habitat would only suffice around 5 shrimps....and no fish....Once the female shrimp have berried then you will either upgrading to another Nano sized tank or selling the lower graded shrimp.

Then again there will be forum members who will state strongly that only Oto's can be introduced for a sure / safe mixed biotope.

Hope you have success in your shrimp keeping....enjoy


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

Anubia said:
			
		

> I have kept mixed Biotopes of both nano fish and CRS without concern. This is not to say that any small fish species like raspbora's and the ilk will not attempt to snaffle young juvenile shrimp. I think the comment here is to say ' If the fishes mouth is big enough then it will attempt to snack on them.
> 
> I think if you provide dense planting schemes and hiding places where the shrimp can go about their natural way and then fish are fed adequatly then I perceiver no problem with a mixed biotope.
> 
> ...



sorry to burst your bubble, but even fishes with smaller mouths than the shrimplets can eat them. As gory as it sounds, they bite at the shrimps and rip off their limbs bit by bit in a way akin to tigers or dogs biting off at gazelles carcasses or smth.


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Garuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every time I see "chinese plecs" I can't remember the scientific name, I want to set up a tank just like that, they're such a pretty fish. 

Yeah, that's pretty much true, sometimes the best lessons are from nature, no matter in what aspect.


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## mdhardy01 (8 Oct 2010)

I'd still like to know what you all recommend for substrate
Aqua soil/Acadama /gravel/sand 
Your recommendations please
Matt


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

Aquasoil/florabase or similar, acadama with tropica base if it's to be very cheap. 
It depends on what you want from the tank.


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## dw1305 (8 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> "chinese plecs"


 Hill-stream loaches <http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstream-loaches-the-specialists-at-life-in-the-fast-lane>, _Sewellia lineolata_ is the one I like 




and apparently not difficult to breed if you have cool, highly oxygenated water. A few people on the plec forums have bred them.
http://www.loaches.com/articles/breeding-sewellia.

cheers Darrel


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

Thanks Darrel. A fish I'd love to try, I see them going as job lots in pets at home often and wish I could find room in a tank for them. I always think they'd be a good oto option for those who like to keep their tanks cooler like me (23 on average) but then I remember they're rivine and that mixing them with the often sharp landscape rock is probably a bad idea.


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

*Re:*



			
				mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> I'd still like to know what you all recommend for substrate
> Aqua soil/Acadama /gravel/sand
> Your recommendations please
> Matt




Right now, I'm using the worse substrate ever.

But i did use some good stuff before, so I'd recommend GeX soil.
It is so, so good. Personal experience.
Breeder i'm buyin some high grade shrimp from uses it too. Agrees with me.


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Thanks Darrel. A fish I'd love to try, I see them going as job lots in pets at home often and wish I could find room in a tank for them. I always think they'd be a good oto option for those who like to keep their tanks cooler like me (23 on average) but then I remember they're rivine and that mixing them with the often sharp landscape rock is probably a bad idea.




otos are better. pretty sure these guys still snack on tiny shrimp. but hey, if you like the colours, go for it


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## Garuf (8 Oct 2010)

I could never recommend otos for anything less than say 4-5gallons, even then that's a push. Those loaches are bigger still so I'd imagine they're even more unsuitable! 

I don't mind shrimp being eaten really, natural selection  I'd never pay huge ammounts for shrimp, I scoffed at crs at Â£8 each, being terrified to change the water or dose ferts for killing them etc is not a hobby for me.


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## Shrimptastic (8 Oct 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I could never recommend otos for anything less than say 4-5gallons, even then that's a push. Those loaches are bigger still so I'd imagine they're even more unsuitable!
> 
> I don't mind shrimp being eaten really, natural selection  I'd never pay huge ammounts for shrimp, I scoffed at crs at Â£8 each, being terrified to change the water or dose ferts for killing them etc is not a hobby for me.



thats funny, 8 pounds for CRS. overpriced imo ^^
(look who's talking luls. ok, i admit, i'm greedy)

but yeah, in all seriousness though, shrimp being eaten isnt actually the kind of natural selection that you want, especially in such a small tank. Unless you can guarantee the proportion of healthy shrimp being eaten is less? For all you know, loaches might only be going for the shrimp that are the healthiest. maybe they taste the best  Because to be honest, even the healthiest shrimp can't run away from a loach, so its kinda pointless really.

Also, in shrimp tanks they usually have their own natural selection anyway. weak shrimp either die/get ripped to shreds by their friends before they die.


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## Shrimptastic (9 Oct 2010)

oh, to the guy who was suggesting a 30% water change everyday. please read this thread. it's not really against your point, but it's for mine. lol

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/shrim ... -tank.html


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## Garuf (9 Oct 2010)

I think that's on the assumption that it's a high light tank, as tom mentions in the thread, that if you don't want to do water changes then the tank is going to be vastly different to if you want it to look good. It's a case of picking your poison, or as usual, highlight or low.


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## ghostsword (9 Oct 2010)

Those loaches look really nice. On a tank without any heater and very good water current they would look good.


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## ghostsword (9 Oct 2010)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > "chinese plecs"
> ...



Great article.. And I am sure that such a tank would be useful for shrimp, without the fish, of course.


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## dw1305 (9 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> I could never recommend otos for anything less than say 4-5gallons, even then that's a push. Those loaches are bigger still so I'd imagine they're even more unsuitable!


 I agree with Garuf, Otos are unsuitable for very small tanks because of their requirement for high quality water, Hill-stream Loaches even more so.

Bigger volumes of water are just much easier to manage, although with the proviso for the high tech tank you may run into problems  with CO2 distribution etc. If I'm looking at a tank for a new species of fish, I'd look at it's behaviour and water requirements, so a small aggressive fish like _Crenicichla compressiceps_ or a _Congochromis_ species or a rheophilic one like _Sewellia_ would need a larger tank.

cheers Darrel


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## Shrimptastic (9 Oct 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I think that's on the assumption that it's a high light tank, as tom mentions in the thread, that if you don't want to do water changes then the tank is going to be vastly different to if you want it to look good. It's a case of picking your poison, or as usual, highlight or low.



No Garuf, thats not an assumption that its a high light tank. Basically, its an assumption that the tank has plants that remove nitrates/nitrites. I can tell you one thing, all my plants are low light. As in, they have low-light requirements- high light is bad for them. And they remove nitrates by the truckload. I tend to call them mosses   

I have a light aloft my tank, but I don't usually turn it on. And I haven't changed my water for 6 weeks.

So really, you can have a low light tank and you don't need to change the water


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## Garuf (9 Oct 2010)

No, no, I meant that the 30% a day water change was under the assumption that the tank is a highlight, I should have been clearer.


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## mr. luke (11 Oct 2010)

Shrimptastic said:
			
		

> mdhardy01 said:
> 
> 
> 
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False
Cherries are a slectively bred strain of the wild type neocaridina heteropoda, the red colour was picked out by a breeder and worked on until they breed true.


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## a1Matt (11 Oct 2010)

Getting back to the last question raised...

Lower grade CRS or cherries will accept wide parameters, so you do not need to get a particular substrate.
So just go with what you like the look of.
I use akadama in some tanks, and sand in others. (I'm cheap!)


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## mdhardy01 (11 Oct 2010)

I've heard that Ada amazonia is supposed to be good is this right 
Or is it a bad idea ?
Matt


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## Luketendo (11 Oct 2010)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> I've heard that Ada amazonia is supposed to be good is this right
> Or is it a bad idea ?
> Matt



Think it's very much recommended by shrimp keepers and plant people alike, just the ammonia spike and the higher price which makes it different from others I think?


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## dw1305 (12 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> I use akadama in some tanks, and sand in others. (I'm cheap!)


 Same here, if you want a low nutrient, low TDS system, or to exclusively use frequent water column fertilization (EI with dry powders etc)  silica sand is a good substrate, it is inert and is purely a physical medium to anchor the plants in. If you want a media which will act as a "nutrient reservoir", you can use an inert medium (like sand, Akadama or Tesco's light-weight cat litter) and add slow release nutrients or you can use a nutrient rich media, either one which is a complex mixture of components (like garden soil) or an inert medium with fertilisers added (sand and Osmocote for example) or a designer mixture by ADA etc. 

How "good" that medium  will be depends upon a number of factors, but probably the most relevant are the CEC and AEC (Cation Exchange Capacity & Anion Exchange Capacity), this is the ability of that substrate to hold and exchange ions (nutrients Mg++, NO3-) from solution (the tank water). Clays and humus for example have large CEC values and silica sand or perlite have no CEC. Clays retain some CEC when they are heated, this makes them physically more stable (think of brick or porcelain). As a general rule clays calcined at high temperatures are very physically stable, but with much reduced CEC, those calcined at lower temperatures retain more CEC, but are less stable. 

My personal opinion is that your plants and shrimps can't read, and have no interest in aquascaping or human aesthetics, therefore the choice in these areas is entirely yours. Purely in terms of plant growth I'd use the cheapest substrate that fulfils your requirements. For me that is either an inert medium (sand) or a medium with some CEC, (Sand + clay + humus) or a calcined clay based media that is physically reasonably stable, but retains some CEC, like Akadama, lightweight cat litter etc. 

cheers Darrel


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## mdhardy01 (12 Oct 2010)

Thanks for the reply darrel
I've got myself some Acadama which I have rinsed and is now soaking in a bucket with some ei powders added to the water with the idea that the Acadama will soak them up therefore giving me a nutrient rich substrate for about Â£5 a bit cheaper than the Ada stuff and no ammonia spike 
Matt


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2010)

Hi all,


> which I have rinsed and is now soaking in a bucket with some EI powders added to the water with the idea that the Akadama will soak them up therefore giving me a nutrient rich substrate.


That is pretty much the idea, have a look at the "Akadama sticky", the process is not quite like a sponge passively soaking things up, it is a more active process than that. Akadama Sticky:
<http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=741&start=0>

This is a simple explanation of the CEC & AEC - clay mineral interaction <http://www.waternet.co.uk/waternet/soilfertilitypart1.htm>. 

cheers Darrel


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## Shrimptastic (13 Oct 2010)

mr. luke said:
			
		

> False
> Cherries are a slectively bred strain of the wild type neocaridina heteropoda, the red colour was picked out by a breeder and worked on until they breed true.




Lol, you are funny. "selectively bred strain of wild type neocardina heteropoda" is exactly what i said. wild type with smaller gene pools. LOL

CRS are actual mutations, mind you, cherries aren't, they are, as you say, selectively bred.
Selectively bred and mutation are two very very different terms.

It's like I said. That animal is a cat. and you come along and say "thats wrong, the animal that you are referring to is a cat"

lols


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## Shrimptastic (13 Oct 2010)

Luketendo said:
			
		

> mdhardy01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i think as long as you are pro and you know what you are doing, you dont need fancy soils


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## mdhardy01 (13 Oct 2010)

Shrimptastic wrote[/quote]i think as long as you are pro and you know what you are doing, you dont need fancy soils [/quote]

Not a pro and don't know what I'm doing lol   :?


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## Shrimptastic (13 Oct 2010)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> Shrimptastic wrote


i think as long as you are pro and you know what you are doing, you dont need fancy soils [/quote]

Not a pro and don't know what I'm doing lol   :?[/quote]

Hmm, ok. use a fancy soil then  (I did when i started) lol.
I think the most important thing is to keep your water parameters in check, and know exactly why you are using what ur using. For instance, GeX soil sucks up nitrate and lowers pH, but if you can ensure that your nitrates and nitrites are low, and you can ensure low pH, then you don't need GeX 

In the end, no matter how good your soil is, your shrimps will still die if your water parameters are not in check  and likewise, your shrimps will live even if you use the most useless kind of substrate known to the aquarist world if the parameters are in check, unless of course that substrate is like, granules of pure copper or something stupid like that haha.

In my opinion though, go for GeX. ADA is yuck.


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## mdhardy01 (13 Oct 2010)

I've gone for Acadama
Soaks up nutrients and fairly inert will be using all stuff from my large tank
To get it up and running
Will fill it with tank water to start with and seeded filter medium
From one of my eheims
I won't add any shrimp until all water parameters have settled down
I was joking when I said I didn't know what I'm doing I keep Asian
Discus so am used to keeping softer water and lower ph
Let's see how it goes
Already getting the prep done
Matt


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## Shrimptastic (13 Oct 2010)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> I've gone for Acadama
> Soaks up nutrients and fairly inert will be using all stuff from my large tank
> To get it up and running
> Will fill it with tank water to start with and seeded filter medium
> ...



just have fun, that's whats most important
Breeding shrimp is about having fun and creating your own breeds through selective breeding ^^ and having fun while at it.


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## mdhardy01 (14 Oct 2010)

Shrimptastic said:
			
		

> just have fun, that's whats most important
> Breeding shrimp is about having fun and creating your own breeds through selective breeding ^^ and having fun while at it.


 
will do 
thanks for all the advice  
cheekily asking but do you sell your crs   
thanks 
matt


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## Shrimptastic (14 Oct 2010)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> Shrimptastic said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




my CRS arent in the UK


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## mdhardy01 (14 Oct 2010)

shame 
just thought id ask any way
matt


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## Shrimptastic (14 Oct 2010)

im playing with deep blue orange eyed tigers though, and they dont really have that in singapore. i know that because one of the breeders that sells sss and king kongs is asking me to get a pair for him. it's one of the very few rare shrimps that are more common in europe than in asia (whoo germany!)

so yeah, if you want something that the asians don't have much of, go for that


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