# My 120L Soil tank



## daizeUK

After suffering BBA meltdown in my last attempt at a scape, PinkMummy79's success story has inspired me to try a soil tank along with the invaluable guidance of members like Troi and ScienceFiction.

I'm going for something simple with not too much hardscape, mineralized topsoil substrate with a cap of Unipac Samoa coarse sand.  The intention is no ferts or CO2, for as long as I can get away with it!

This was immediately after planting:



 

and two weeks later:


 

Many of the plants are a bit of an experiment for me as I've never tried them before.  I'm relying on staples like crypts and hygrophila which have done well for me before and on echinodorus species which I hope will appreciate the soil substrate.  There's also some experimental alternathera cardinalis & reineckii mini, lilaeopsis brasiliensis, monte carlo and an aponogeton back left which is just sprouting nicely and I hope will fill out in front of the filter intake.

The plants are still busy switching to immersed form and I guess are probably running out of their stores of carbon about now so I'm bracing myself for a bit of a meltdown within the next week or two!

Lighting is 2x T8 15W bulbs, an Arcadia Tropical & Freshwater combination which was recommended to me by Troi and I'm really enjoying the rich colours it brings out.  I've got these on for 4 hours in the morning and 4 hours in the evening with a 4 hour siesta in between.  There's also a TMC Aquabar LED nestled in between the T8 bulbs which provides a 2 hr 'noon' burst during each photoperiod.  That's on a dimmer switch so it's currently on half power and I can increase or decrease as needed.

Livestock is currently 3 platies and a bunch of hitchhiker snails who are breeding like rabbits!  Soon I'll be adding my threadfin rainbows and I'm hoping to add cherry shrimp, CPD's and maybe more rainbows at a future date.

This is the first tank I've ever set up which has not been covered in diatoms within the first two weeks - so far it's completely algae free.  Perhaps there really is something in this soil malarkey?!


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## Tim Harrison

Looking very nice and healthy


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## EnderUK

looks like a battle royal of plants in there


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## daizeUK

Lol, yes.  Bit of a bun fight!  The H. polysperma has doubled in size while the H. polysperma "rosea" isn't doing very much.  I knew the rosea was a bit more delicate but the difference in growth is very marked.


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## daizeUK

Nearly 4 weeks since planting now.  Snails are helping to keep the tank clean but still there is really very little algae. 
I'm very pleased with progress so far, it's exceeded my expectations.  I'm not sure if the carpet plants are going to work out or how long this algae-free growth is going to last for but right now I'm just enjoying the tank for what it is. 



 

My threadfins are all in the tank now and they seem to like it!


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## daizeUK

Coming up to 6 weeks.  I've added 12 celestial pearl danios and looking to get my hands on some more in a couple of weeks.
The bulbs are suddenly putting out some heavy growth (aponogeton back left and red lotus back right).  The 'carpet' isn't doing much though.


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## sciencefiction

Really nice! Great job.


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## sciencefiction

daizeUK said:


> I'm not sure if the carpet plants are going to work out or how long this algae-free growth is going to last for but right now I'm just enjoying the tank for what it is



The carpet plants may be a bit shaded. Perhaps try something that tolerates lower light if this one doesn't do ok.
My tank has been algae free since its setup 2-3 years ago despite having ups and downs and problems with equipment as well, so you won't necessarily get algae.


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## daizeUK

Thanks SF!  The lileaopsis might be getting a bit overshadowed but the monte carlo isn't shaded at all.  I'm actually surprised that either of them have lasted this long without melting completely!   If they deteriorate then I was thinking of trying some small crypts like willisi and legroi and some dwarf sag.

Still no algae that the snails can't handle but I am getting lots of carbonate deposits on leaves.  Troi & Darrel explained to me that this is a by-product when plants use the bicarbonates in the water as a source of carbon.  My water is hard (305mg/l CaCO₃according to our water supplier) and the tank pH is 8.3 and nearly all the plants seem to be doing this.  In the last pic you can actually see the tip of one of the aponogeton leaves looks whitish - that's due to scale deposits, not a reflection.  It can really build up.


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## sciencefiction

Yes,  I read your other thread with the issues with the fish.
Have you monitored your Ph throughout the day and the KH?  Perhaps because of the biogenic decalcification those two fluctuate which may have caused the fish to be sick.  Normally what happens is the Ph rises, the Kh drops. And this stuff isn't very well tolerated by fish. I'd take a bit of time to test for that and see.

Maybe try decreasing the light duration to 6 hours in total or less without a siesta to tame the plants.  I am not sure who this can be prevented long term. I do get calcium deposits on the glass but I've never had biogenic decalcification on the plants. My water is hard, but not as hard as yours, probably around 220mg/l.
Your tank is new, the soil will make it slightly more acidic in time which will help long term so things should get better.
Also, see if the issue is around certain area only, perhaps you need to get the flow better. The aponogeton seems to be under the spraybar and this is normally a dead area for flow if the filter is not strong enough. Perhaps in your hard water flow could be even more important as it will get the co2 to plants on time.


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## sciencefiction

Hey Daize,
How is the tank and the fish?


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## daizeUK

Hi SF, it's good! 
Thanks for your suggestions about the calcification.  It hasn't seemed quite as bad for the last week.  There's still scale on the glass but not so much on the leaves, at least I didn't have to bother wiping them off this week.  pH seems quite stable at 8.2-8.3 and I've adjusted the spraybar slightly in an attempt to get a more even flow.  There was a very strong down-current at the right side of the tank which I've alleviated, more for the fishes' sake than the plants - these species aren't known for being particularly strong swimmers.

The monte carlo is actually spreading but incredibly slowly.  It seems that some of the initial growth spurt on top has yellowed but there is some nice green creeping growth underneath.  I'll continue to see how it gets on.

The stems were starting to look a bit overgrown so they got a trim this week.


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## sciencefiction

It looks really great and healthy. I wouldn't worry one bit about anything.
White deposits on the glass have been my problem for years and it hasn't affected the fish or the plants but I haven't seen it on the plants. I don't think in the soil tank you'd have much issues with that. These tanks are extremely stable in my opinion and even if you get a bit of a deficiency here and there one day, it's pretty easy to sort out and algae is never a problem.


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## EnderUK

Don't take this wrong, it really is up to you. The tank looks amazing, love the jungle look.... The single tree branch looks out of place.  I would either get rid or put it at another angle or try and get a few more smaller pieces into the tank. But if you like it then keep it


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## sciencefiction

It's a matter of opinion. I quite like it where it is.


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## daizeUK

Thanks for the feedback, I agree the branch is probably a bit too vertical and could be angled better aesthetically!  I was attracted to this piece of wood because the natural twistiness reminds me of a kudu horn (an antelope from South Africa where I spent a year of my childhood).  I also chose it for practical reasons because it stands up on its own without having a large footprint.  It's not buried at all, it just rests atop a foundation of gravel so that it can be easily removed without disturbing the soil substrate.  My previous layout had an immovable arrangement of artistically arranged branches and I deliberately wanted something simpler and less rigid this time around.  So, I'm quite liking the wood at the moment but it's nice to hear other perspectives and I do appreciate the comments!


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## Tim Harrison

daizeUK said:


> Hi SF, it's good!
> Thanks for your suggestions about the calcification.  It hasn't seemed quite as bad for the last week.  There's still scale on the glass but not so much on the leaves, at least I didn't have to bother wiping them off this week.  pH seems quite stable at 8.2-8.3 and I've adjusted the spraybar slightly in an attempt to get a more even flow.  There was a very strong down-current at the right side of the tank which I've alleviated, more for the fishes' sake than the plants - these species aren't known for being particularly strong swimmers.
> 
> The monte carlo is actually spreading but incredibly slowly.  It seems that some of the initial growth spurt on top has yellowed but there is some nice green creeping growth underneath.  I'll continue to see how it gets on.
> 
> The stems were starting to look a bit overgrown so they got a trim this week.


Wow that has matured beautifully...Why isn't this in the journal section as well?...it's amazing.


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## daizeUK

Thanks Troi!  I feel a bit intimidated by all the beautiful CO2 tanks in the journals section tbh!   I'm hoping that my experiences might contain useful information for anyone else thinking of starting a soil tank, so I put it here!


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## Tim Harrison

No way should you feel intimidated - you're way better than you must think
...And for what it's worth there is loads of good info in your posts...


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## EnderUK

If you want to improve the carpet, I'd recommend a propagate, heated one might be better this time of year, a small section quickly grows in the right emersed conditions and you can put down huge mats that will have a much better chance of spreading in the tank.


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## daizeUK

That's a good plan, I have a small unheated propagator which I try to keep cuttings, my first attempt with the Monte Carlo failed but I have a few off cuts growing in there now - not enough for a mat though!


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## sciencefiction

daizeUK said:


> Thanks Troi!  I feel a bit intimidated by all the beautiful CO2 tanks in the journals section tbh!   I'm hoping that my experiences might contain useful information for anyone else thinking of starting a soil tank, so I put it here!



I have to agree with Troi. Your tank looks amazing. I can't believe you feel intimidated by CO2 tanks and other journals because I am sure you spend 90% less time on it than a 50% better looking CO2 tank that only looks that way for a day, if picture is taken very carefully  I am sure yours looks that way any day/time of the day.
And personally, I love it. Healthy, well arranged plants and happy fish, what's not to love about it.


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## Paulmk

Looks great,really impressive


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## daizeUK

Thanks so much for the encouragement and kind comments!

I've been taken by surprise by the sheer size of the crypts in this tank.  I expected that C. petchii would be a fairly small crypt but today I had to remove one at front centre which I felt was taking over the tank!  I wonder if it's the soil substrate or dense planting that makes my crypts grow so big?  It can look like a bit of a jungle but the plants still seem healthy and that's the main thing!

I had some trepidation about pulling up plants from the soil substrate but it wasn't too bad.  I used scissors to trim the crypt roots just below the surface and then pulled the plant up gently.  A small cloud of dirt puffed up (filter turned off, obviously) but it settled again very quickly and the fallout was easily vacuumed up.  I guess that's a bonus of adding clay to the soil layer.

I introduced some fire red sakura cherry shrimp a couple of weeks ago, they are beautiful but sadly don't seem to be doing very well.  One arrived DOA in the bag and three more have died since addition.  There are still three remaining.  Perhaps they are just more sensitive than I expected.  I've only kept Amano shrimp before which were much hardier.


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## alto

daizeUK said:


> but sadly don't seem to be doing very well. One arrived DOA in the bag and three more have died since addition. There are still three remaining. Perhaps they are just more sensitive than I expected.



I suspect the clue is in the DOA shrimp - in my experience, shrimp that arrive in good condition & active, generally do well.
Last shrimp I picked up, I've seen almost daily losses so that a week later, maybe 7/16 remain ... oddly, the remaining group at the shop were all DOA the next day (shrimp shipped in same day that I purchased).
It's a good idea to check shipping water (for quality) & compare with tank parameters, so that you can rule out this factor.


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## sciencefiction

daizeUK said:


> wonder if it's the soil substrate or dense planting that makes my crypts grow so big?


Perhaps both.


daizeUK said:


> I introduced some fire red sakura cherry shrimp a couple of weeks ago, they are beautiful but sadly don't seem to be doing very well. One arrived DOA in the bag and three more have died since addition. There are still three remaining. Perhaps they are just more sensitive than I expected. I've only kept Amano shrimp before which were much hardier.


They shouldn't be sensitive at all(judging by my own) But they'd be sensitive to new water parameters at first(perhaps a change too much at once) and transportation.  Did you try drip acclimating?
If you got older(bigger shrimp), they don't adapt as well as juveniles.


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## sarahtermite

This is a stunning tank - the water is so clear, and it's lovely to see such that healthy plants can grow in a low tech set up. It's (almost!) inspiring me to redo my tank with a soil substrate. 
Sorry about your shrimps, though. It does seem suspect if one was DOA.


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## daizeUK

sciencefiction said:


> They shouldn't be sensitive at all(judging by my own) But they'd be sensitive to new water parameters at first(perhaps a change too much at once) and transportation.  Did you try drip acclimating?
> If you got older(bigger shrimp), they don't adapt as well as juveniles.


Yes I drip acclimated the shrimp.  They were larger than I expected so I think they were adults.  I do have hard water so perhaps it was the shift in water parameters that weakened them.  I haven't seen them for a long time so I'm not sure I've got any left now 



sarahtermite said:


> This is a stunning tank - the water is so clear, and it's lovely to see such that healthy plants can grow in a low tech set up. It's (almost!) inspiring me to redo my tank with a soil substrate.
> Sorry about your shrimps, though. It does seem suspect if one was DOA.


Thanks so much!
The water is lovely and clear, so much so that I am getting into the bad habit of water changes once every two weeks.  Apart from a little algae on the glass the tank just doesn't look dirty after one week.

I had some problems with holes in my lotus leaves and the salvinia was looking pale at the same time.  Adding trace elements seemed to fix the problem so I think it was due to iron deficiency.  The lotus is growing new leaves now.

Here's a four month update pic.  It's a bit overgrown - all the plants are huge!  But they look healthy so I can't complain!


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## sciencefiction

Looking really nice Daize. Stunning tank. My water is also hard and iron is an issue in such water.


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## ajadcock

This is a stunner - Wishing I could get my low tech to grow this quickly and healthily! Congrats 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## daizeUK

The nice thing is I barely touch it except to trim the odd stem that breaches the surface!
I decided to clean the filter this week since it was coming up to two months since the last clean but I needn't have bothered really.  It was hardly dirty at all.
Long may the low maintenance last!


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## sciencefiction

daizeUK said:


> The water is lovely and clear



That's exactly what I noticed when I first setup my tank. It looks so clean as if you have purigen or the likes in the filter. There's something about soil tanks 



daizeUK said:


> I haven't seen them for a long time so I'm not sure I've got any left now



If they are in low numbers, they'll hide very well. You may not see them at all.  Once they multiply to a nice group, they get very confident and swim around like fish do.  Even if you have just one male and just one female somewhere, they'll multiply. I started with 2 females and 3 males and now I have hundreds of them. If they are fed well, the young can get to adult size in weeks.

If none are left, next time buy juveniles, about 1cm max long if you can get them. They adapt really well. Adults can't do well with total change of water chemistry most times.  But once you get a crowd of shrimp, they'll do really well when they are born in those conditions and are as tough as nails or snails   Also, some of your fish may pick on them, so they can hide because of that too and could still be there somewhere.


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## daizeUK

sciencefiction said:


> If they are in low numbers, they'll hide very well. You may not see them at all.  Once they multiply to a nice group, they get very confident and swim around like fish do.  Even if you have just one male and just one female somewhere, they'll multiply.


Unfortunately the supplier I bought them from was careful to only give me females - I guess they want people to buy more from them, not breed their own.


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## sciencefiction

That's mean  Can't you find someone else to get them from?  I got mine from two different places. One sent me just males, the other females, lol.
I first got red rilis but 2 out of 5 arrived DOA and the other 3 were all males. I didn't want to order from them again as first they may have sent me just males again, plus very poor packaging that killed half the shrimp. I couldn't find rilis anywhere else so I got cherries instead. Now the population is mixed between rilis and cherries and even some blues have been popping up.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Females usually bigger and more colorful, so maybe that's the reason? Is there any chance you can ask for specific gender when you buy?


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## alto

Tank is looking grand with color & texture in your jungle 

You might try find some of my new favorite shrimps - red nose/long nose or various derived names
I seem to have a mix of these and these ... there's discrepancy in the reported (adult) sizes likely due to various species shipping
This page has some photos for several "long nose" species (a local shop has been bringing in shrimps from a source that sends out interesting mixed groups - may be frustrating if you want specific types, but I'm intrigued)


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## daizeUK

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Is there any chance you can ask for specific gender when you buy?


I don't think so, I bought from Sharnbrook Shrimp and they state the shipping sex is female.  http://www.sharnbrookshrimp.co.uk/Fire_Red_Sakura_Shrimp_p/sakura-red-fire.htm

I would love to have a breeding colony of cherries in the tank.  I might have better success with my LFS, think I'll give them a visit this week!


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## Smells Fishy

Well done. My favourite part is the background, nice choice of plants.


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## daizeUK

Glad I visited the LFS today!  They had a tank full of beautiful bright red cherry shrimp!   Gorgeous colours.  I've got 13 of them currently acclimating and I think I only got charged for 6 of them.  Maybe I will have a chance at seeing some baby shrimp now, who knows?!  I picked up some black fire endlers too.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Why not? If they're already adults it should be easy to sex them. Very hardy shrimp and usually if it begins to reproduce you'll often find they do it as if there is xerox device.


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## daizeUK

Haha!  Well I'm not the best at sexing shrimp but some are paler so it looks like a mix of males and females to me and at least one was berried so I have hope for shrimplets, if they don't get eaten!

The endlers have already settled in and are trying to mate with my male threadfin rainbows.   Livebearers, huh?


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## daizeUK

Six month update.

The new cherry shrimp are doing much better than the previous lot, all the adults have grown huge (or at least bigger than I expected cherry shrimp to be!) and there are at least three shrimplets courtesy of the female who was carrying eggs when she arrived.  I've not seen any berried females in the tank since then so perhaps my conditions just aren't conducive to shrimp breeding.

I've got two pics, before and after maintenance.  This first one was taken a day before maintenance when the tank hadn't been cleaned or touched for two weeks.  It looks rather unruly but there's no algae and the water is still clear.




 

The next pic was a couple of days later, after a water change.  I didn't really do much maintenance except throw out half of the salvinia and remove the big C. wendtii that was dominating the centre of the tank.


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## EnderUK

Crazy growth and now the hardscape blends in natural.


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## russchilds

Amazing!! Looks really good!


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## flygja

That's some impressive non-CO2 magic!


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## faizal

Goodness me your tank's growth is amazing. And without any co2 at all. Do you think its because of the mineralised top soil ? Could you be kind enough to explain how you actually mineralised it please? Did you add anything else to the substrate like laterite or osmocote etc? 
Truly inspired to try the mineralised top soil approach after reading this.


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## EnderUK

faizal said:


> Goodness me your tank's growth is amazing. And without any co2 at all. Do you think its because of the mineralised top soil ? Could you be kind enough to explain how you actually mineralised it please? Did you add anything else to the substrate like laterite or osmocote etc?
> Truly inspired to try the mineralised top soil approach after reading this.



Best time to do it is in summer, throw some soil in a shallow container, let it dry out. (break it up and sieve out the larger stuff), pour water into the container to make it into a thick mud. Let it dry out again, wet it, dry it, until the soil is nice fine gray powder.

You don't really need to do this to be honest. Read the tutorial section.


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## Kev hall

This is why I joined this forum too find tanks like yours


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