# The Dark Side or What Lurks Beneath



## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2012)

Ok...as much as I'm an advocate of the low-energy I have to admit this high-energy malarkey has gripped me and I've been completely seduced by the Dark Side...as Tom Barr so eloquently puts it, I've become 'addicted to the dope'. 

So I thought what the heck why not go the whole hog and buy some Gucci substrate as well. So I brought some Columbo Flora-Base Black and some very expensive rocks as well - both of which really goes against the grain.  

I tore down the high-energy soil substrate layout in what used to be Georges shallow (mine now) and set up a more conventional 60 x 30 x 40(h) cm 70l tank, with the intention of experimenting with stem plants since I've never really had that the much success with them the low-energy way.

This is what I've managed to come up with so far:-

The rocks 






The manzanita 





I'll be planting as soon as I've been down the shops to buy super glue for the Anubias.


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## jack-rythm (6 Dec 2012)

Cool, a new journal. I feel the journals are becoming less. I know what u mean I have four low techs and am planning.g my first serious high tech   from walstads to high energy doping  

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## gmartins (6 Dec 2012)

Looks good so far. I would only suggest to give a bit more slope from the edges to the centre...

Will follow

cheers

GM


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2012)

Be careful with your choice of stems as anything that grows fast is a pain to maintain in a injected tank!
Plants like polysperma grow inches a day & put down extensive roots that are a pain to pull up!


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2012)

jack-rythm said:
			
		

> Cool, a new journal. I feel the journals are becoming less. I know what u mean I have four low techs and am planning.g my first serious high tech   from walstads to high energy doping
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



Good luck with that, looking forward to it.



			
				gmartins said:
			
		

> Looks good so far. I would only suggest to give a bit more slope from the edges to the centre...
> 
> Will follow
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestion...which I have now implemented, along with more substrate at the back. I was half toying with the idea before, but decided against it - muddled thinking on my part - something to do with giving the stems as much height as possible so I could view them in all their glory; probably overcompensating for the characteristics of the shallow. Anyway, I think it looks better now.



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> Be careful with your choice of stems as anything that grows fast is a pain to maintain in a injected tank!
> Plants like polysperma grow inches a day & put down extensive roots that are a pain to pull up!



Thanks for the sage advice. TBH _Hygrophila_ spp. are about the only stems I've had any degree of success with the low-energy way, so I'll be staying clear of them for this scape.

I'll be hitting my LFS tomorrow but I've already brought the following locally, which are in a temporary holding tank:

_Rotola rotundifolia
Ludwigia arcuata _(in a bit of a sorry state)
_Hemianthus (Micranthemum) micranthemoides
Alternanthera reineckii_ 'Pink'
_Myriophyllum tuberculatum
Ludwigia repens _(I think, which may go in the low-energy tank)

I also thought I might try _Hemianthus callitricoides_ 'Cuba' in part of the foreground.


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## Iain Sutherland (6 Dec 2012)

Hey troi, welcome to the dark side.  Look forward to seeing this one planted and am really glad to see ludwigia repens, a real beaut of a plant that seem to be very under used.  I can see that wood looking awesome covered in Taxiphyllum barbieri 
Shame to pull down the soil tank though, it was looking great.


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## gmartins (6 Dec 2012)

Nice variety of leaf shape and colours to play with. This month's ADA journal is dedicated to stems, in case you want to have a read. 

Some Eleocharis parvula in between rocks may make a good complement to H. callitrichoides as well. 

GM


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## jack-rythm (6 Dec 2012)

where do you get the ADA journal?


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## gmartins (6 Dec 2012)

Here: http://www.coverleaf.com/#Home&Document=71688


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## jack-rythm (6 Dec 2012)

thanks


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## jack-rythm (6 Dec 2012)

oh you mean Aqua journal! thanks I got those already


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## Ian Holdich (6 Dec 2012)

Nice hardscape Troi, looking forward to seeing it planted!


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Hey troi, welcome to the dark side.  Look forward to seeing this one planted and am really glad to see ludwigia repens, a real beaut of a plant that seem to be very under used.  I can see that wood looking awesome covered in Taxiphyllum barbieri
> Shame to pull down the soil tank though, it was looking great.



Thanks, I think it's _Ludwigia repens_, it was an unnamed special at Maidenhead Aquatics. I might put some T. barbieri on the wood, but I will have to take care trimming it; any fragments I leave take hold and threaten to overrun the tank in no time flat. 

I suppose you're right about the soil tank, but I kinda learnt all I could from it, so unfortunately it was time to move on...
...do not underestimate the powers of the Dark Side...



			
				gmartins said:
			
		

> Nice variety of leaf shape and colours to play with. This month's ADA journal is dedicated to stems, in case you want to have a read.
> 
> Some Eleocharis parvula in between rocks may make a good complement to H. callitrichoides as well.
> 
> GM



There are some pretty sexy plants out there, my selection was largely down to what was available locally, putting them all together without clashing or playing eyeball ping-pong will be a challenge. 

I'll have to see if I can get a copy of the Aqua journal (I don't subscribe), looks like it could be well worth a read. 

Funny you should mention the Eleocharis parvula in between the rocks I had thought exactly the same thing...great minds...

Just took a rubbish snapshot of the newly sloped substrate; still might need a bit more work, looks a little too high on the left now.







			
				Ian Holdich said:
			
		

> Nice hardscape Troi, looking forward to seeing it planted!



Thanks Ian, I'll probably make a start with the planting tomorrow.


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## Alastair (6 Dec 2012)

Looking forward to this one mate, I've gone from the dark side to the light side so curious to see how you get on doing the opposite. Love the scape so far 


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2012)

Alastair said:
			
		

> Looking forward to this one mate, I've gone from the dark side to the light side so curious to see how you get on doing the opposite. Love the scape so far
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Cheers Alastair. Well, if I make the reverse transition half as well as you have I'll be doing very well indeed...the force is strong with you.


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## tim (6 Dec 2012)

Gas has got you well and truly hooked mate    nice hardscape will be following this


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2012)

How can you tell?   Thanks Tim I only hope my attempts at planting do it justice, such as it is.


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## Tim Harrison (7 Dec 2012)

Super Glue really works :!:  8)  No more cotton thread, fishing line, or elastic bands for me. Having never used super glue before I decided to break with convention and get the epiphytes in first instead of the foreground planting. I'm amazed that despite the soaking wet it bonded fast in seconds. 













But then I forgot I had an prior engagement so I had to go mid way through the creative process...I_'m an artist darling don't interrupt while I'm working_...thank goodness for kids and their sandwich bags. 





The foreground was next - what a nightmare planting in moist Flora-Base. And then when I topped up the aquarium...how much mud and fine sediment - and people worry about soil...OMG   

But that's a photo opportunity for another day :!:


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## jack-rythm (7 Dec 2012)

Ha brilliant! Looking good 

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## Tim Harrison (9 Dec 2012)

Thanks Jack. 

FTS of the finished scape - well almost finished - just need to trim here and there and move a few things around. I decided not to go with the wood; as good as it is I felt the scape looked better without, and the idea is to experiment with as many plant spp as poss so it would only have got in the way. And anyway the stems at the back will eventually fill the space...I hope.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Dec 2012)

Is that the same tank! Wow. That's some planting sir! Looks magnificent!


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## Ady34 (9 Dec 2012)

Looks great.....i liked the wood though


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## gmartins (10 Dec 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Looks great.....i liked the wood though



+1

GM


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## Tim Harrison (10 Dec 2012)

Yer me too, but I think overall I preferred this planting scheme without it. I think that when the stems grow the wood won't be an issue...my attempts at photography really don't do it justice anyway.

I've had a bit of a trim - the _Rotola _(back left) and the _Microsorium_ and swapped the _Cryptocoryne nevillii _with the _C. wendtii_ (bottom right). I think it gives the scape a bit more depth; it was looking a bit linear before. 






I don't hold much hope for the HC cuba (bottom left), since my dwarf golden barbs love grazing on it so I think I'll replace it with some more _Staurogyne_ when its gone.

I'm also about to re-scape my low-energy tank but nothing fancy, mainly with the big root feeders Crypts, Vallis and _Echinodorus_.


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## Ian Holdich (10 Dec 2012)

Looks very Dutch, well planted mate!


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## hydrophyte (10 Dec 2012)

Nice planting! That will grow in very pretty.


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## Tim Harrison (10 Dec 2012)

Ian Holdich said:
			
		

> Looks very Dutch, well planted mate!



Thanks Ian, I guess that was sort of the idea, but with a bit of nature aquarium thrown in as well. But I must confess I didn't feel comfortable announcing it outright since I'm not totally confident I really understand either style that well :? 



			
				hydrophyte said:
			
		

> Nice planting! That will grow in very pretty.



Cheers, I hope I can keep the plants alive long enough for that to come to fruition


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## stu_ (10 Dec 2012)

Ian Holdich said:
			
		

> Looks very Dutch, well planted mate!



That was my first thought
If it's a Dutch influenced scape, then it does it for me 
Good luck


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## Tim Harrison (11 Dec 2012)

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Is that the same tank! Wow. That's some planting sir! Looks magnificent!



Thanks Nate that's much appreciated, I meant to reply earlier but got sidetracked. By the way, liking your Ryuoh Ravine it's a pretty cool scape.



			
				stu_ said:
			
		

> Ian Holdich said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Stu, nice to know that someone else thinks there is at least some sort of recognizable resemblance to the Dutch style. Once the stems grow though it'll be interesting to see if it starts to resemble the nature aquarium style more.


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## tim (6 Jan 2013)

Any updates on this troi


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## Ady34 (6 Jan 2013)

tim said:


> Any updates on this troi


+1


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## Deano3 (6 Jan 2013)

wow looks great and open 

Dean


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## Tim Harrison (9 Jan 2013)

Sorry it’s been a while, I've not been on site at all recently what with one thing and another. But now I've posted a snapshot below. On comparison I’m not sure it’s looking any better, but it’s still early days yet and it has a long way to go.

But in the meantime, it’s had several trims and I've removed the _Cabomba _sp. (it was only meant as a filler and it grew very leggy) and replaced it with _Rotala rotundifolia_ which grows very well.

The _Alternanthera Reineckii_ died back but sprouted new leaves (I guess it was grown emersed in the nursery) so I pinched the crowns out and replanted them, and they seem to be doing ok.

The _Ludwigia repens_ is doing very well and the leaf colour is remarkable. The _Myriophyllum_ grows quickly and the leaves have turned from dark brown to orange, but like the _Cabomba_ it tends to grow very leggy. I suppose, I need to consider increasing light intensity possibly using T5s instead of T8s.

And what was left of the _Ludwigia arcuata _is recovering slowly but still looking a bit sorry for itself.

I’ve also simplified the foreground and added some _Cryptocoryne wendtii_ (green) to the mid-ground far left. As predicted there isn't much Cuba left uneaten.

But overall I’m fairly pleased with the results so far, and I’m very interested to see how it all develops and whether my ability is up to the challenge of maintaining the tank without too many problems and achieving the luxuriant growth I’m after.


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## tim (9 Jan 2013)

looks good troi switching to t5s will increase the need for gas maybe beyond the levels your livestock can handle as I've just found out with the optiwhite I've purchased still its a steep learning curve as they say good to see an update mate


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## Iain Sutherland (9 Jan 2013)

Looking good troi,  cant help but feel some nano wood would add some natural height and help draw the eye around 
What is the crypt on the right?  tropica or brown?  its got a lovely red shade!

How are you finding the high tech world?


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## Alastair (9 Jan 2013)

Very very nice troi certainly done just as good a job at the high tech side of it as you have low tech 


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## Tim Harrison (10 Jan 2013)

tim said:


> looks good troi switching to t5s will increase the need for gas maybe beyond the levels your livestock can handle as I've just found out with the optiwhite I've purchased still its a steep learning curve as they say good to see an update mate


 
Thanks Tim, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet on that one either way, T8s are great for low-energy tanks but I don't think that they quite cut the mustard with hi-energy, I imagine it's something to do with intensity and penetration. 



easerthegeezer said:


> Looking good troi, cant help but feel some nano wood would add some natural height and help draw the eye around
> What is the crypt on the right? tropica or brown? its got a lovely red shade!
> 
> How are you finding the high tech world?


 
Cheers Iain, I think you're right about the wood, and I'm hedging toward putting it back, but for the time being I want to be able to grow the stems unhindered for a while more yet.

The crypt is tropica, I inherited these from George's shallow, but I've grown them since I restarted with the hobby over 2 years ago. The original ones (or their offspring) are still in my low-energy tank and they love soil; they're only supposed to reach 15cm in height mine are about 25cm.

I'm finding the Hi-tech world interesting, for the want of a more interesting adjective. It's amazing what you can achieve with a fuel injected tank in a week. Tim is right the learning curve is very steep which suits me down to the ground; I'm an impatient perfectionist. But alas, I have a long way to go still and truth be told I not sure I'm all that successful with the more difficult plants, but time and experience will tell...I hope.

What's your take on the whole high-energy T8/T5 thingy. I know it's been discussed ad nauseum but it doesn't hurt to get another perspective on the subject?



Alastair said:


> Very very nice troi certainly done just as good a job at the high tech side of it as you have low tech
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
That's nice of you to say so Alastair, especially since my rubbish snapshots do not do it justice at all, but I'm trying...probably very. I totally redid my low-energy tank at the same time so I have a direct comparison regarding both methods and the rate of plant growth, which is phenomenal in both tanks. But when all said and done I'm still amazed at how fast the plants grow in my low-energy setup, definitely on a par with the high-energy. But admittedly I've chosen all big root feeders for the low-energy.


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## Tim Harrison (24 Feb 2013)

Well, thought I'd add a few pics since it's been a while, but I have a good reason. I'm recovering from surgery. 

Anyway, I've put the wood back and given everything a bit of a trim. I've allowed the Rotola to take over, and I think the overall look is now that of a nature scape rather than dutch. At least it will be when it all grows back.


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## LondonDragon (24 Feb 2013)

Tank is coming along nicely  also wishing you a speedy recovery, careful during maintenance


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## killi69 (24 Feb 2013)

Looking great Troi. Much better with the wood back in again IMO. Like the way the wood sits on a bed of rock and how you have merged these two elements with anubias.


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## Ady34 (24 Feb 2013)

Hi Troi, 
Pleased you have updated this and I agree with both Paulo and Andre, the tank is coming along nicely and looks great with the wood back in 
I can't wait to see those stems grown back in, the plants all look really lush.
Are you enjoying the high tech route and do you feel it offers anything more to the hobby for yourself which you couldn't achieve before?
All the best for a speedy recovery.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Tim Harrison (25 Feb 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Tank is coming along nicely  also wishing you a speedy recovery, careful during maintenance


 
Thanks Paulo that's much appreciated. I've had to wait a couple or three weeks before I could endeavor to carry out any maintenance so it was long over due.



killi69 said:


> Looking great Troi. Much better with the wood back in again IMO. Like the way the wood sits on a bed of rock and how you have merged these two elements with anubias.


 
Thanks for noticing...I purposefully position the rocks to give the impression that the wood had grown around it, you obviously have a good eye for detail


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## Tim Harrison (25 Feb 2013)

Ady34 said:


> Hi Troi,
> Pleased you have updated this and I agree with both Paulo and Andre, the tank is coming along nicely and looks great with the wood back in
> I can't wait to see those stems grown back in, the plants all look really lush.
> Are you enjoying the high tech route and do you feel it offers anything more to the hobby for yourself which you couldn't achieve before?
> ...


 
Hi Ady, me too, I've put the Ludwigia in the low-energy tank and placed Rotola cuttings across the entire length of the back, so I'm interested to see what it looks like...although it may not work that well aesthetically.

I am enjoying the challenges that the high-energy route offers. But the main difference is the variety of plants that actually grow rather than just hang in there. I was going to go down the T5 route but instead decided to try new Arcadia bulbs for my existing T8 luminaire. I don't have a PAR meter but I'm convinced that the supposed increase in PAR output advertised has made a big difference to plant growth; especially since the CO2 etc have remained constant and fairly well optimized.

As for a speedy recovery, thanks, so far so good. I had a double artificial disc replacement in my cervical spine, and now have a similar op to look forward to in my lumbar spine


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## Tim Harrison (29 Apr 2013)

Time for an update...just another hand held snapshot with a naff compact. Not brilliant by any means, both photo and layout, but I've learnt a lot about growing stems, and using lowish light 30 watts T8 in a 70 litre tank. I'm afraid it's somewhat neglected - due to a 2nd major spinal surgery in as many months - but I'll be breaking it down as soon as I'm able and putting my effort in to a low-energy scape.


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## foxfish (29 Apr 2013)

Looks nice mate....bad luck with the back though...get well soon.
Please tell me more about your avatar, what is that hanging down at the top?


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## Steve Smith (29 Apr 2013)

Looks good Troi but yes, maintenance can be annoying when you're healthy, let alone when you're injured! Hope your heal up


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## Tim Harrison (29 Apr 2013)

Thanks guys that's much aprreciated. The avatar foxfish is a climber dangling from an overhang. The other hobby...only I specialize in falling off stuff..hence the main reason for the surgery


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## foxfish (29 Apr 2013)

That is what I thought just wanted to confirm that was how you damaged your back!!


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## flygja (30 Apr 2013)

Trim up the rear stems into a nice bush and I'd say you've nailed the NA concept you said you were afraid of!  

Good luck with the surgery and recovery, thats a lot more important than all of this.


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## faizal (30 Apr 2013)

Troi said:


> Not brilliant by any means, .... I'm afraid it's somewhat neglected .....


 
I wish my neglected tanks looked as sweet as this. Awesome Troi!!  I think you should definetely cross over to the Dark Side  .

Good luck with your recovery.


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## Tim Harrison (30 Apr 2013)

Thanks all, Flygja and Faizal. It's nice to have the distraction of UKAPS whilst I recover. As for the tank...it kinda morphed in to a NA thingy whilst I wasn't looking


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## Tim Harrison (5 Jun 2013)

Another update. I was going to break this down and start again, but I had to face reality, given my current circumstances I'm not yet capable. Sooo...I decided to re-gig the planting a bit, and let it do it's own thing for a while, and it seems to be doing ok.

I also changed the lighting to a DIY LED luminarie type thing, which I think is now giving me high-light. And I've notched the CO2 and ferts up as well. I can now grow glosso, (compact and dense) and hydrocotyle sp japan is growing close to the substrate. The 30 watts of T8 I had before wasn't really cutting it.


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## tim (5 Jun 2013)

Looking really good troi. Hope your road to recovery is on track. Really healthy NA scape.


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## foxfish (5 Jun 2013)

It a jungle in there! get well soon...


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## Ady34 (5 Jun 2013)

Looking great. 
I'm a little envious; stems, glosso, crypts, high light and no melt, a little glassware and some lovely wood breaking the surface...... why Troi, I think you've nailed the high tech na approach.....beautifully! 
Hope the tank is easing your pain somewhat.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Alastair (6 Jun 2013)

Looks beautiful mate really really nice. Id be well chuffed with that.  Very nice mate.  Hope your recovering well

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## oldbloke (6 Jun 2013)

Lovely.


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## Tim Harrison (7 Jun 2013)

Aw-shucks...thanks guys that's very kind of you all to say so. I'm well on the road to recovery, just can't lift anything heavier than a paper bag at the mo.


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## faizal (8 Jun 2013)

Oh my goodness,.... Good gracious me !!! That is one sweeeet tank!!! Nice one Troi


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## Tim Harrison (9 Jun 2013)

Thanks Faizal...I've enjoyed following your progress as well.

Thought I'd post a photo of my DIY LED luminaire type thingy. It's basically 2 x 20 watt LED 6500k flood lights mounted on 25mm square profile aluminium tubing. All the cabling is hidden within to give it a neat and uncluttered finish. So far it works a treat (and the glitter lines are awesome) and I like its retro industrial aesthetic. All for around £75.00.


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## stu_ (9 Jun 2013)

This is excellent, i really admire it.
Loving the effect of the shady areas dotted here & there at the substrate level.
Bit like when you walk into a new garden for the first time, & there are lots of hidden nooks & crannies to explore (or maybe that's just me)
Good work with the lighting rig, though i'm not sure i'd get away it in our house...


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## flygja (11 Jun 2013)

Wait hang on... you? LEDs?  Beautiful!


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## Tim Harrison (11 Jun 2013)

Thanks stu, that's a nice observation. And thanks also flygja...I think


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## Tim Harrison (15 Jun 2013)

Trimmed! It's surprising just how fast it goes over the top.


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## justissaayman (25 Jun 2013)

Did you just drill that into the roof?


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## Tim Harrison (25 Jun 2013)

Yep, its on an Arcadia suspension kit.


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## justissaayman (26 Jun 2013)

Have you by any chance got a picture of how you mounted it to the roof?


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## Tim Harrison (2 Jul 2013)

Hi this is a very similar aqua-medic kit it just screws in to the ceiling, obviously screwing it in to the joists is always preferable. aquafit 1 Hanging Kit – Aqua Medic


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## AshRolls (8 Jul 2013)

Hi Troi,

I will (probably) be replicating your DIY LED lighting on my tank. Can you indicate how much light bleeds into the rest of the room from the lamps at the height you have them? Do you feel the need for an additional canopy to reduce any stray light? 

Thanks for the inspiration!


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## Tim Harrison (10 Jul 2013)

Hi, IMO the light bleed in to my study - where the tank is - is fine. It's noticeable in daylight but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. At night it's perceptively brighter than say an Arcadia luminaire, but I find it perfectly acceptable.

However, I think that if it was competing with the TV, for instance, I think I might find it a bit distracting. But on the other hand the same could probably be said for any suspended luminarie. So no I personally don't feel the need for an additional canopy. But it would be easy to fashion one out of aluminium sheet and attach it in a way that would be super cool aesthetically.


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## Tim Harrison (2 Aug 2013)

Last warts 'n' all update...my tank after I ripped the guts out of it yesterday Most of the missing plants are in isolation where they're being treated with molluscicide in a forlorn attempt to get rid of the snails that seem to perpetually plague my tanks, the rest will follow in due course. I couldn't believe the size of them - the plants that is - especially the Bolbitis, the thing is a complete thug and huge. I'll be breaking it up in to smaller specimens and recycling it; I've got 2 new scapes sort of planned over the next few weeks - 1 low-energy and 1 high-energy.

Curiously I quite like the scape below, must be something about the open space and actually seeing my fish actively swimming instead of geostationally hovering against the current amongst the dense veg. However, it's not a very auspicious ending to the journal..but I woke up one morning and hated everything Perhaps I should put it in From this to This (view from the bottom up) More of an anti From this to This though

This




From this to


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## justissaayman (2 Aug 2013)

What you using for molluscicide?

Also how are the lights working?


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## Tim Harrison (2 Aug 2013)

Today I'll mostly be using eSHa Gastropex...Not shrimp safe...hence the reason for treatment in another tank, plus no dead snails to pollute the water.

As for the lights - I'm well pleased with them, thanks for asking. I must have the intensity and the balance with other parameters about right...massive plant growth and no algae. My only gripe was that the light was so much more intense and perhaps stark than I was used to so it made my plants look a bit washed out. However, the plants seemed to respond in a matter of days by greening up considerably and now appear very vibrant and verdant.

I'm kinda thinking that maybe it also has something to do with the spectrum the lights emit - but that's something of a moot point. In addition I've often wondered of late whether the ripple effect from point source lighting like mine also encourages better plant growth and discourages algae - as opposed to constant and even intensity given off by more diffuse sources like florescent bulbs. Maybe it's analogous to plant growth being stimulated by the different frequencies in musical composition, and therefore perhaps worthy of further investigation. But then my theories are often absent minded meanderings and probably complete nonsense.

Just noticed my message count is the number of the beast...666  Very appropriate given the title of the journal.


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## Ady34 (2 Aug 2013)

Well you definitely succeeded with the high tech route Troi 
Shame to take it down, it was looking superb, but onwards and upwards, looking forward to the next!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Tim Harrison (3 Aug 2013)

Thanks Ady, that's kind of you to say so, hopefully, it's not a complete fluke and I can continue onwards and upwards - the bar is set very high here - but sometimes regression is the only way forwards... well that will be my excuse if my next attempt looks pants and it all goes Pete Tong...


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