# Normal filter output V spraybar



## Christos Ioannou (29 Dec 2014)

I am running a 140 cm (L) x 40 cm (W) x 35 cm (H) tank that is visible from three sides (two long sides, one long side) as per below drawing (green line shows visible part)

CO2 is injected with inline UP diffuser into the filter and the CO2 enriched water is returned to the tank.
The filter I am using is Sera 250, rated at 750 l/h, which is much less than the 10 x rule... Therefore, I am using a power head to enhance circulation.

Dotted lines show a rough idea of the current and new flow.
Power head is rated at 800GPH






I have been thinking about using a spray bar instead of the normal output and I am wondering if its worth the trouble doing this. I can install the spray bar only at one side of the tank (restricted to having filter input and output at same side of tank) 

Thoughts & recommendations welcome!


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## Tim Harrison (29 Dec 2014)

I suppose it boils down to the geography of your scape...obstructions to flow etc...without knowing its configuration it's hard to give sensible advice.


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## Christos Ioannou (29 Dec 2014)

Sure, here's the scape!


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## Tim Harrison (29 Dec 2014)

Depending on your planting plans I don't think it'd matter that much, but there is no harm in trying out new ideas either way...other than the potentially more diffuse flow you'd get from a spray bar might not penetrate in to the far corners of the tank so well...I guess.


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## Edvet (30 Dec 2014)

In my eyes getting good circulation in large/odd-shaped tanks is hard. In this tank i would go with a large spraybar over the entire length. If you don't want to i would consider not getting one big,but 3-4 of the smallest circulation pumps and put those all under each other in the front right corner and have them all in the same direction. Most circulation pums tend to give a small "hard" jet, while you need a soft large jet to get a good circulation. Just my 2 €cts. (source: trying to get good flow in a 200x100 cm tank)


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## pepedopolous (30 Dec 2014)

Maybe a Maxspect Gyre would do the job?

P


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## Christos Ioannou (30 Dec 2014)

pepedopolous said:


> Maybe a Maxspect Gyre would do the job?
> P


 nice but $$$



Edvet said:


> In this tank i would go with a large spraybar over the entire length.


For a first, I would like to avoid that. Also my filter is way too weak for this. I can change the filter though for a more powerful one for less than the cost of the Gyre thing and hook up a spraybar at the length of the tank...  or install an underwater pump and direct its output in a spraybar either short side or long side. Whichever is the most $effective and less intrusive.

Really want to hack circulation issue.


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## ceg4048 (31 Dec 2014)

If you do not come close to adhering to the 10X rule then the spraybar will not be much of an advantage. Suggest filter upgrade or supplemental pumps.

Cheers,


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## Christos Ioannou (31 Dec 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> If you do not come close to adhering to the 10X rule then the spraybar will not be much of an advantage. Suggest filter upgrade or supplemental pumps.
> Cheers,


Hi ceg4048,

I am already using a power head in my current configuration as per opening post, that sits next to the filter output facing the same direction, to supplement the flow. 

I was thinking about dropping some wood chips in front of the power head / filter output to get a visual of the circulation as two of my favorite people have done in one of their shows (sorry for the poor quality had to strip it off a you tube video).
Their experiment involves a circular tank with current created from a small outboard motor and they added wood chips to get a visual of the flow. More here
This will be messy though...





Will be looking to get some transparent acrylic for a spray bar as well and see how it goes.


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## foxfish (31 Dec 2014)

I don't think a spray bar fitted along the side will help as it will just defuse the flow.
With a tank of your size a full length spray bar across the back will work though.


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## drodgers (1 Jan 2015)

I Tried working off the side in my large tank and the setup ended poorly.
For example I had two filters with the heads at the corners, and 2 water jets pushing the flow around, and a pump with a reactor. the result was melted plants in dense corners etc.
I Now use one filter with a spray bar that runs the complete length of my tank, and the co2 is injected through my filter intake.The result is amazing! I have a good roll of the front glass the reach's the bottom of all my plants.


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## Christos Ioannou (1 Jan 2015)

Happy New Year!
Next update will be with a picture of my tank long spraybar!


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## drodgers (1 Jan 2015)

Happy New Year! Looking forward to the setup ,nice tank indeed!


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## Christos Ioannou (2 Jan 2015)

Found 2 filters at about same price.

My inline atomizer and inline heater work with 16/22 mm tubing. Tank is 180L.
*
Filter A*
16/22 hoses with flow of 1400l/h. Also comes with uv 

*Filter B*
Hoses are wider (23/?) and I will need to reduce size to connect atomizer and heater. But flow is 2000l/h. No UV

So... which way to go? 

Thanx!


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## nayr88 (2 Jan 2015)

I did type "filter B without a shadow of doubt "

But then thinking about reducers and having inline items I think your still going to be finding dead spots IMO

If it was me....I'd get a mega filter, fx5 jobbie.
Another option, how about two filters either end with jet output creating a swirl effect? One end have the outflow facing the inflow at the opposite end of the tank and visa versa?


Someone else may want to cut my neck for suggesting this as maybe I should know better....BUT hear me out,
One decent filter hitting 10x rule such as option B
Then 2 small circulation pumps tucked rather low and in the corners of the tank, pushing water through the dense planting area from behind back into the centre of the tank say 2-3 inches from substrate?


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## Christos Ioannou (2 Jan 2015)

nayr88 said:


> But then thinking about reducers and having inline items I think your still going to be *finding dead spots* IMO


Hi thanks.

Even if running a spraybar on long side?
I am already running a power head next to output. I can see plants move in the current but hope that a spray bar will achieve optimal circulation and co2 distribution.


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## nayr88 (2 Jan 2015)

Sure if you have a spray bar going longways your going to distribute co2 and ferts like a champ, sorry I must of skipped the part where you mention the spray bar going longways haha.

The reducers and items will slow flow, however I thhhhhhiiiiiiiiink you'll still hit the 10x rule, win the plus side of spray at too. 

Are you making a clear one your self? The eheim ones are bit manky looking IMO


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## Christos Ioannou (2 Jan 2015)

No worries mate thanks for your input. Anyone with experience using a lower diameter filter hose than the intended hose?


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## Christos Ioannou (5 Jan 2015)

(Much) Easier said than done.
Here's my DIY spraybar, 120 long, with 3mm holes drilled on a clear tube, hooked up on my new 2000L/H filter 





Let's wait for the results of this investment!


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## Edvet (5 Jan 2015)

Good way to check function: lower the water till tube is well clear, the jets from ti should hit the other side quite hard!


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## Christos Ioannou (6 Jan 2015)

Thanks, actually I was not careful and then had to mop the floor  since jet jumped over tank!
I am really anxious for the results.
However I did not align holes very well in a straight line so I will be doing a 2nd one soon.


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## Christos Ioannou (12 Feb 2015)

This is an update about 1 month after I installed the spray bar. Plants are greener and healthier. Just recently I changed the inline atomizer from going into the filter to going into the tank. 



Here's what my flow and circulation look like after the new setup.
I am still waiting for the hair grass to show signs of carpeting. Seems I need to wait much longer 

Comments welcome.


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## greenmac75 (12 Feb 2015)

hi Christos, I've got a similar set up what type of filter are you running and are you happy with your results?


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## Christos Ioannou (12 Feb 2015)

Hi its a sunsun filter (aka allpond aka many other names)
Does a good job at cleaning the tank. You can see the circulation/flown with the DIY spraybar.

As for growth (due to circulation) alteranthea reiniki seems happy. So does styro, polypsperma, moss. Wish I could say the same about dh though, but admidably is greener after this change (5/1/15)


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## Christos Ioannou (24 Feb 2015)

Christos Ioannou said:


> (Much) Easier said than done.
> Here's my DIY spraybar, 120 long, with 3mm holes drilled on a clear tube, hooked up on my new 2000L/H filter
> Let's wait for the results of this investment!



I have a powerhead lying around - I removed it after I installed the spray bar. 
Do you think that there will be benefits it is installed again? If so, where should it be placed, facing which direction?

This is a schematic of my current layout. Spray will hit front (opposite) glass about 3 inches lower than spray bar.


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## Christos Ioannou (3 Mar 2015)

Christos Ioannou said:


> I have a powerhead lying around - I removed it after I installed the spray bar.
> Do you think that there will be benefits it is installed again? If so, where should it be placed, facing which direction?
> 
> This is a schematic of my current layout. Spray will hit front (opposite) glass about 3 inches lower than spray bar.


Hi all, so anyone can advice whether adding a power head on my above ^ setup can benefit the circulation?
If so, how/where should I aim the power head to?

Thanks a lot!


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## Edvet (3 Mar 2015)

Only useful if it goes in the same direction, shouldn't be needed with this spraybar.


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## Christos Ioannou (3 Mar 2015)

That's nice to hear. (Read)
Fwiw plants are happier and I get pealing under leafs of poly, s.repens


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