# Edge of the Jungle



## Andrew T (4 Feb 2020)

_04/12/2020_​_


 _
_03/30/2020_​


_03/16/2020_​



Hi everyone,
It is time to start a new journal and this one is going to be a little different than my previous attempt at nature aquarium.

Lately I’ve been really captivated by the diorama style aquascapes and decided to go for it this time around.
I played with the rocks for the past 7 days or so, and I think I have finally got to the point where I’m just going to stop touching them and just glue them in place.

This tank is built in-wall(face frame not done yet on living room side as you can tell - ugly, I know but it wasn’t priority), has a 20g sump that houses return pumps and other equipment.

Tank: ADA 60P
Sump: 20 gallon long
Flow: 2 Eheim return pumps via loc-line
Lighting: Twinstar 600S
Filtration: Eheim 2217 canister
Co2: pressurized via in-line diffuser
Hard scape: Mexican pot rock / tree roots
Soil: Used Amazonia
Sand: Colorado sand

I was thinking to get some spider wood or other root type of wood and break small pieces and glue them individually on to the rocks for a very dramatic scape look; just like jungle vines /roots creeping down the mountain...you get the idea.

The front will be filled with either LaPlata sand or Colorado sand.

Plant list:

HC Cuba or Monte Carlo.
Small crypts.
Buces
Anubias nana petite(already have some).
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Eleocharis Accicularis sp.
Weeping moss

No stem plants.

Left side up on the plateau there will be either HC Cuba or Monte Carlo; I’m trying to achieve a draping effect with either of those hanging off the ”cliff”.
I’m also thinking weeping moss for all the rocks; trying to achieve the same effect.  I bet I’ll need a lot of moss here.
Hairgrass and H verticillata around rock base to soften the transition between rock/sand.
H tripartita serving its purpose on the left steep cliff as a jungle vine going up to meet the grass(Cuba or MC in our case)

That’s about it for now.
Will have more updates for you guys as soon as I source the wood and finish that part of the scape.
For now, here’s a picture: Not sure if you guys can spot the cave on the right side but there’s a rock “in the cave” or beyond it so to speak and I’m planning to glue anubias petite to it and with the light shining down on that rock behind the cave I think it will look great.
If you have any comments/questions/opinions don’t hesitate to share them here.
I want to take my sweet time on this scape to make sure I’m building what I really want and what I envision in my head.


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## Andrew T (5 Feb 2020)

This is the final rock arrangement. 
I glued everything in place and poured substrate around to stabilize the rocks. Also glued the anubias nana I had laying around to the “cave rock”.
Next step is to somehow get my hands on senngani root to finalize the scape. It’s exactly what I’m looking for.
Seems like Fishy Business in Singapore might have them. I’ll have to call when they open.
Below I uploaded a pic of the roots for reference:


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## Andrew T (8 Feb 2020)

I watched one of Green Aqua’s videos and Viktor was saying that for the new tank they set-up, they need to go with a reactor because the in-line atomizer will not cut it.
Now that tank is big, but still, didn’t deter me from building another co2 reactor for my 60P.
It is installed and ready to mess with the drop checker!View attachment 131329View attachment 131329


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## Andrew T (8 Feb 2020)

Exploring my backyard at the property line....
Sometimes we get so caught up with day to day tasks that we forget how beautiful the nature God created really is.
Moss everywhere, some really cool rocks that I might use in the next scape, and a refreshing cold stream. 
The best inspiration is sometimes taken from places like these.
I collected a couple different moss species and put them in a bucket under an LED reading light.

I want to see how they do underwater since they’re terrestrial moss species. I did however see some moss underwater and I bet it was there for quite some time and was as fresh as it can be. See pic..

If all goes well, and it grows just fine, I’m gonna use it to cover all my rocks. Unless there’s a reason I shouldn’t use it besides the obvious.

Some pictures I took:


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## dw1305 (9 Feb 2020)

Hi all,





Andrew T said:


> I did however see some moss underwater and I bet it was there for quite some time and was as fresh as it can be..........


Is aquatic, it is a _Fontinalis_ sp.

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (9 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Is aquatic, it is a _Fontinalis_ sp.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks Darrel, 
Willow moss from what I’m reading online.
Pretty cool to find it in my backyard.


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## Andrew T (9 Feb 2020)

Food for thought regarding reactors vs other types of co2 diffusing methods.
I used the same injection rate I had going through the in-line GLA atomizer on the previous scape. 

GLA atomizer got my drop checker yellow. 
The DIY Tom Barr reactor gets my drop checker green.

The drop checker is placed low in the tank but still, looks like the atomizer co2 bubbles got under it giving false reading. And the fact that the ceramic got dirty in between cleanings could mean fluctuating co2 levels as well...at least in theory.

To me the main advantage of the reactor is crystal clear water across the whole photoperiod. Mist in the tank was not my cup of tea.

I’m doing all these tests with lights off since tank is full of water and just turning it on when needed for just a minute to check the drop checker to dial in the co2 just right.

I’m doing a 5g water change daily in a 30 gallon total system for the next 2 weeks or so to just get stuff out that might be leaching from the rocks and have better success overall when I finally add plants...again just my theory but it gives me a fuzzy feeling that I’m doing things right .


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## Andrew T (10 Feb 2020)

Great news.
Moved the mosses from the bucket to the sump and all of them that I picked up from the branches show new growth after 1 day in co2 and weak light over them in the sump.
The growth is visible and I couldn’t be happier.
Tank is at 75 degrees. Let’s hope these are staying healthy cuz they’ll save me a ton of money since this hard scape is moss dominated.


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## zgmarkozg (10 Feb 2020)

Awesome backyard and tank as well


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## dw1305 (10 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





dw1305 said:


> it is a _Fontinalis_ sp


Just had a look at the Washington State Flora and it looks very likely to be _Fontinalis antipyretica. 
_
I think you might have some joy with any of the mosses that are growing along the stream on rocks, or tree roots. A lot of mosses occur right across the N. hemisphere, so species like <"_Calliergonella cuspidata"> _are as much N. American as European. 

The leafy liverwort is really nice, it may be _Porella sp._ 

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (10 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Just had a look at the Washington State Flora and it looks very likely to be _Fontinalis antipyretica.
> _
> I think you might have some joy with any of the mosses that are growing along the stream on rocks, or tree roots. A lot of mosses occur right across the N. hemisphere, so species like <"_Calliergonella cuspidata"> _are as much N. American as European.
> 
> ...


Awesome thank you for looking into it Darrel.
I decided to actually do the same thing you suggested; stick to mosses found submersed on rocks/tree roots.
What is your experience regarding terrestrial moss/liverwort submersed long term given lower temps 22-24c max in an aquarium setting?
Is there a chance for them to flourish?
From my research the only truly aquatic moss is fontinalis antipyretica but yet we have all these mosses growing just fine in our tanks.

I guess what I’m most afraid of is gluing it to hard scape just to have it die months down the road and making a mess out of the scape.
In my situation, working only from behind the tank is no walk in the park.


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## dw1305 (10 Feb 2020)

Hi all,





Andrew T said:


> From my research the only truly aquatic moss is fontinalis antipyretica


There are quite a few aquatic mosses in the UK (and my guess would be plenty more in N.W. America), but they don't tend to be commercially available. <"_Platyhypnidium riparioides"> _is a really common one around where I live. 





Andrew T said:


> I guess what I’m most afraid of is gluing it to hard scape


I'd leave it loose for a while and see what happens.

I've got a few native cold water mosses and they seem to survive OK in relatively warm water. The problem with mosses in the tank is that they don't tend to produce spores, and often grow im much slimmer forms, meaning that they are almost impossible to definitively identify.

I've definitely got _Fissidens_ and _Fontinalis_ in the tanks, because they are really distinctive, but I also have a number of other mosses, possibly as many as eight, where I don't <"know their name, or exactly where I got them from">.

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (10 Feb 2020)

Interesting. I’ll definitely keep an eye on them and go out and collect more willow moss this afternoon since I left it in the stream.

On a totally different note, I get my water from an underground well on our property.

I haven’t done a water quality test but now I’m thinking maybe water from the stream is better to use for water changes given proper temp adjustment before dumping in the tank.

Any idea? Either way is easy for me , more so getting it from the kitchen faucet but bringing a 10 gallon jug twice a week from the stream is no big deal either.

Ideas?


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## Andrew T (10 Feb 2020)

This very small spiky variety that I collected interests me in particular,
It’s a darker green that the others. I’ll try to find more of it.


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## Andrew T (10 Feb 2020)

Went out again and to my surprise I found some submersed plant that looks like H. Verticillata. Looked it up and indeed it is native to NA and SA. 

Lots and lots of willow moss but I have to cut the healthy parts and glue them down. I did notice they were anchored very strongly to rocks where the current was strongest.
Picked up another type growing on some partially submersed rocks.


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## Andrew T (14 Feb 2020)

Went to one of my favorite fishing spots and broke off a few roots from a tree that’s been sitting there for the past few years.
Gotta continue with the hard scape....


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## Andrew T (14 Feb 2020)

First part of the roots glue down was done last night.



I also added Amazonia light in the front instead of the sand I was planning on; only reason is because I now decided on a carpet of some sort. More plants -less algae.
And the light version of the Amazonia matches the rocks pretty closely.
More root gluing tonight...


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## Andrew T (15 Feb 2020)

Oh the ever changing mind and ideas of an aquascaper....lol
Ran out of roots so I have to go pick up some more.
Pushed the Amazonia to the sides and towards the rock. I’m gonna cap it with some Colorado sand and run a path to the right of the moss rock all the way into the cave and to the anubias in the back.
Should make everything more interesting; at least in theory.


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## Tucker90 (16 Feb 2020)

That won’t be everyone cup of tea but I love it pal! Very natural. Too many folks doing the same thing over and over again! 

Watching this one! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andrew T (17 Feb 2020)

Tucker90 said:


> That won’t be everyone cup of tea but I love it pal! Very natural. Too many folks doing the same thing over and over again!
> 
> Watching this one!
> 
> ...


Thanks!
I understand your point...not many willing to spend days after days building a scape that on top of everything is hard to get around and maintain but to me is well worth it.

Tomorrow I’m planning to finish the scape . I’m going to introduce a floating rock on top of the right overflow with roots hanging down from it. That way I can plant this tank from top to bottom.

Hygro  Pinnatifida will be a plant used very heavily in the foreground and mid ground and as far as gluing it on the roots going out of the tank.


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## Andrew T (17 Feb 2020)

Some of the inspirational pics for this scape....at least the vines hanging down part


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## Andrew T (17 Feb 2020)

Notice the “floating” rock?
There will be roots hanging from it half way down and roots all the way down on the right side aquarium wall.
I like the shadow effect the floating rock adds. Looks plain now but more roots will enhance the cave effect.


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## Andrew T (18 Feb 2020)

I might be tweaking small bits here and there before planting but the hardscape is officially done ...about time...
The majority of the hardscape will be covered and will serve as backbone for the various plants. I want this to look like a cave entrance or something along that line; not sure I can pull it off but I’ll try.


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## Andrew T (14 Mar 2020)

Howdy folks!
Been gone to Texas for the past 3 weeks with work.
Tank has been running on top offs and 2 hours of light and co2 per day. No algae and the moss /ottos didn’t die; I’m happy with that.

Going to plant the tank today. 
Stay tuned...lots of gluing/planting for the next few hours.


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)

-Hygro Pinnatifida UK
-Hygro Araguaya sharp leaf
-Micranthemum sp.
-Hydrocotyle tripartita mini
-Christmas moss
-Anubias nana petite


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Been gone to Texas


any where near ADG?

Just found this journal - awesome finds 

Where did you source your plants?


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> any where near ADG?
> 
> Just found this journal - awesome finds
> 
> Where did you source your plants?


ADG is in Houston right?
I was in San Antonio.
I sourced the plants from Aquarium Zen in Seattle.
Too bad the Pinnatifida looked good in the sealed container but when I opened it, all leaves fell off the stalk.
So I glued only the stalks to the rock. Hopefully I haven’t lost them after all.


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)

need to buy a few more pots of Pinnatifida ....


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

If the stalks are robust, they may slowly recover - if soft/mushy at all, just discard
When looking at tissue culture pots, look at the liquid or gel medium, it should be clear, pale etc and not discoloured or cloudy

Yeah, ADG is in Houston ( a mere 3h drive )


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)

Upon closer look at the ADA pots I threw away, whatever I thought is H. Cuba is labeled Micranthemum sp.

Does that mean I got Monte Carlo? And if that’s the case, is the tissue culture Monte Carlo so small in the pot just as H. Cuba and is transitioning to a larger leaf afterwards?
I was 100% sure it’s H. Cuba since it was so tiny but now not so sure.
I’m not bummed at all; MC is fine; I just wanted to know exactly what I have.
All of it is glued down to the hardscape; I want it to grow downwards hanging from the edge of the rocks .


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## Bon MotMot (15 Mar 2020)

Love this scape! can't wait for it to grow in


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)




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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Does that mean I got Monte Carlo? And if that’s the case, is the tissue culture Monte Carlo so small in the pot just as H. Cuba and is transitioning to a larger leaf afterwards?


Yes, MC can appear very small leafed (and has a much smaller leaf when grown in a low energy setup)


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## Andrew T (15 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Yes, MC can appear very small leafed (and has a much smaller leaf when grown in a low energy setup)


Thanks Alto good to know!


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## Andrew T (16 Mar 2020)

One last pic before letting this grow in.
Will post another a month or so from now.
Installed the walnut frame around the front of the tank opening ; you can see it a little in this pic. Need to stain and lacquer it ...gives me something to do while plants grow.


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## Bryce (17 Mar 2020)

That looks fantastic!! You did great job. Like to see it when it’s grown in.


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## Thomas Cranham (17 Mar 2020)

That's amazing. I think I prefer these types of scapes


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## Thomas Cranham (17 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Some of the inspirational pics for this scape....at least the vines hanging down part
> View attachment 131647 View attachment 131648 View attachment 131649


This is something I try and do with all my gardening, no better place to take inspiration that from nature itself


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## Andrew T (17 Mar 2020)

Thanks everyone! 
Changed the title of the journal as well. I think it really resembles some sort of a jungle more than anything else and the fact that there’s some sort of a beach going on...edge of the jungle it is

On another note, I’m wondering how I should be dosing the Tropica specialized and premium liquid fertilizers.(green and orange).
Some people only dose the premium(orange) that contains mainly micros for the first few weeks and until plant mass is large.
Some dose both in equal amounts.

Should I dose both in minimal amounts (1 pump = 2 ml /100L ) for the first few weeks and when plants really take off up the dosing ?

Tropica guidelines on dosing are low but I suppose you should up the ferts as plant mass increases.

I have dry salts as well for those wondering why waste money on water + minimal ferts but since I’m gone once in a while it’s easier for my wife to dose the liquid than measure dry salts.
A dosing pump sounds really appealing right now...


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

The walnut face frame is now stained and lacquered.Some ambient light is hitting it in this pic...otherwise it blends in well with the Amazonia substrate 
Decided to order some pinatifida uk from AFA San Francisco since there’s none locally.
Doing 5g water changes for the time being.
All good...


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

What tank did you use?
just realized I missed this in the journal


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> What tank did you use?
> just realized I missed this in the journal


ADA 60P.
Gotta update the first post ; somehow I missed that detail.


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

I’m thinking of adding some green neon tetras in about a week or so...
Would 15 of them be too many?
I’ve got 2 ottos in there as well.

Total water volume is around 30 gallons and the filter is an Eheim 2217.

Opinions?


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

15 green neons is likely the minimum I’d add - they are quite a shy fish that does better in larger groups
Depending on actual swimming space available, they maybe more/less suited to this scape

P simulans are mostly wild caught though some tank bred are beginning to appear (except those I’ve seen look somewhat odd)

Unless you have some “cycled filter media” from another tank, I’d not add the green neons until plants are established etc (6-8weeks minimum, especially with wc fish)


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> 15 green neons is likely the minimum I’d add - they are quite a shy fish that does better in larger groups
> Depending on actual swimming space available, they maybe more/less suited to this scape
> 
> P simulans are mostly wild caught though some tank bred are beginning to appear (except those I’ve seen look somewhat odd)
> ...


Thanks Alto!
The filter is transferred from my cousin’s 55 gallon that he ran for years and just recently took down due to a glass crack.
So it’s as cycled as can be...however, it ran for the past 2+ months in my tank with minimal bioload which gives me a concern that the bacteria colonies might have declined with so little bioload.
The filter is packed with Eheim bio media and lots of Seachem Matrix.
It’s probably wise to let the plants establish first then introduce the fish...I’m ok with adding more as long as I don’t overstock..so 20 maybe?...25 is probably too much...


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## CooKieS (19 Mar 2020)

As Alto said, P.simulans can be very shy until there is some bolder fishes with them. 

but they’re beautiful !

20 would be ok for an 60p, they don’t get much bigger than 3cm


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

CooKieS said:


> As Alto said, P.simulans can be very shy until there is some bolder fishes with them.
> 
> but they’re beautiful !
> 
> 20 would be ok for an 60p, they don’t get much bigger than 3cm


Should I introduce at the same time a specimen or two of smaller and more aggressive Apistos to make the tetras shoal?


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> ran for the past 2+ months in my tank with minimal bioload which gives me a concern that the bacteria colonies might have declined with so little bioload.


More likely just going “dormant” than dead, they will usually rebound quickly, just do frequent water changes for the first few days to couple weeks (depending  ... this is where I like to use Seachem Ammonia Alert, any colour change and I do a water change - though some shops charge excessively for the Alert and then I just do the water changes without Seachem’s assistance)


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Should I introduce at the same time a specimen or two of smaller and more aggressive Apistos to make the tetras shoal?


No
As I mentioned above, after the hardscape there’s not a lot of swimming space in this tank (still sufficient water volume re the sump), if you add too much stress to P simulans, they won’t be around for long

Any Apisto species is well able to take over all available space in this tank, if you want to add Apistogramma to this set up, I’d carefully choose the least aggressive
(M ramirezi would likely be my preference in a smaller space)

Mike Wise (Apistogramma.com) mentions just adding male apisto to show tanks but I don’t recall the details - I’d be surprised if there’s sufficient footprint in a 60P for more than one male (but I’m pretty conservative re fish “quality of life”)


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

Then I’d rather not add any extra stress to the green tetras . I’ll stick to ottos and some shrimp/snail combo besides the tetras to keep this tank as peaceful as possible.
You’re so right...when everything grows in, there will be minimal open space for swimming ...


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

Given the gorgeous sand area, hard to resist adding someone to sift it 

I’ve been pining after some nice wild type M ramirezi for awhile now 
- lfs have loads of the balloon types, super sized type (some look to be hybrids, others just look to have been hormoned), poorly conformed colour lines, etc


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Given the gorgeous sand area, hard to resist adding someone to sift it
> 
> I’ve been pining after some nice wild type M ramirezi for awhile now
> - lfs have loads of the balloon types, super sized type (some look to be hybrids, others just look to have been hormoned), poorly conformed colour lines, etc


Hmm...calling Steve at Aquarium Zen right now to ask about them.


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

https://m.liveaquaria.com/product/2520/?pcatid=2520

The only concern would be the temperature. I keep my tank at 22-23C Max mostly for the mosses.
Looks like they like the warmer 26+ temp.
Will they not last with the lower temps?


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

I’d give them a miss then, while they easily tolerate lower temps, I’d not add them if intending to maintain tank below 24-25C

Not to dis the video guy, but M ramirezi are NOT a pair bonding dwarf cichlid, they will often breed in a particular “pair” but will also often decide on a (sometimes very messy) divorce ... they are more easily (long term success) kept in larger tanks that allow the addition of a group (beginning with juveniles)


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

I just noticed some minuscule copepods on the aquarium glass.
Never ever seen them in a freshwater tank. Reminds me of my saltwater tank.
These are harmless right?
Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?


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## alto (19 Mar 2020)

Yes and yes 

If you post a detailed photo, @dw1305 can likely identify then (also @Tim Harrison )


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## Andrew T (19 Mar 2020)

They’re so tiny my iPhone camera will not pick them up. They’re white btw...
Times like these when a macro lens would help a little....
I even noticed a white worm floating about in the water column.


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## alto (20 Mar 2020)

Stuck in technology 

Grab a magnifying glass and do a pencil sketch, then back to tech for the picture of said sketch


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## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Grab a magnifying glass and do a pencil sketch


I guess these days it's something of a lost art. Much of my first year at uni was spent in the lab, some of it learning how to look in to a monocular microscope with both eyes open 
One eye looking down the microscope, the other on the sketch I was drawing of the wee bestie on the slide. Weird experience at first but great fun once you got the hang of it.



Andrew T said:


> Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?


Entirely possible, I often get ostracods in my tank, I guess they piggyback on plants. They never last long once fish have been introduced; free live food


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## dw1305 (20 Mar 2020)

Hi all,





Andrew T said:


> These are harmless right?


Yes.





Andrew T said:


> Could they been introduced with the moss I found in the stream running behind my house?


Yes probably, moss is a great habitat for small creatures and Ostracods (particularly) are almost <"universal in aquatic habitats">. 





Andrew T said:


> They’re so tiny my iPhone camera will not pick them up. They’re white btw


You may be able to tell from the way they move.

Ostracods ("Seed Shrimps") swim smoothly, but in little circles, Copepods (_Cyclops_ etc) swim in a series of staccato bursts and Cladocerans ("Water Fleas", _Daphnia_ etc) slowly bounce up and down.

cheers Darrel


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## JeffK (20 Mar 2020)

Beautiful as this tank is, I wouldn't add any cichlids. Chances are any female would get chased around, as there's not a lot of hiding places.

I'd suggest some Corydoras hastatus and perhaps Hyphessobrycon amandae. They can handle lower temperatures. P. simulans appear throughout middle and upper Rio Negro, where temperatures are higher.

You could also try Dario dario. They're neat little gems. They usually do well in aquascaping tanks. Might want to chip in a group of Celestichthys margaritatus too.


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## Andrew T (20 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Stuck in technology
> 
> Grab a magnifying glass and do a pencil sketch, then back to tech for the picture of said sketch


Haha I don’t even know how I forgot about the magnifying glass. Will give it a shot !


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## Andrew T (23 Mar 2020)

12 small Amano shrimp added. Some melting present on few pinatifida leaves which could be normal while they transition...same with parts of the Monte Carlo . They weren’t in super great shape to begin with so a little melting is expected.
Upped the co2 a little more . Both Tropica ferts are dosed daily in a ratio of 1:2. 
One part Specialized to two parts Premium...This is in accordance to James Findlay’s from the former TGM dosing regime of the TNC and TNC+ which yielded great results with amazing growth and coloration.
Still at 6 hour photoperiod and 3 times a week water changes.
We shall see...


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## Andrew T (23 Mar 2020)

Water left out overnight and water tested an hour after lights on. Probably not the most accurate but reassuring nonetheless.


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## Andrew T (24 Mar 2020)

Snatched up a new Hydor Aqamai KPS controllable powerhead from ebay for under 90$. It’s an egg sized powerhead that I’m gonna place under the floating rock to aid with flow, especially when everything grows in.
Variable flow from around 350gph to over 1000gph.
Pretty powerful “egg” lol.


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## Andrew T (27 Mar 2020)

The KPS wavemaker is in and I couldn’t be happier.
What a nice little piece of gear ; I like it more than my previous Vortech MP10...no kidding .
Set up was a little hard with merging KPS WiFi with my home WiFi but all good now.

Tucked away where you can’t even see it from 2 ft in front of the tank programmed on Wave mode going 10%-100% speed in 2 second intervals. 

Plants sway nicely in the current back and fort and I get a nice ripple on the surface every couple seconds.
Just awesome...
My Eheim pumps are struggling at 6ft head and they’re enough to circulate water through the system but this wavemaker was a welcomed addition.


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## Andrew T (28 Mar 2020)

Took the 2217 canister offline.. A bit of a nuisance to run a canister along a sump...like double work.
So I had a little time and had a hmm moment...
An old reef salt 3.5 gallon bucket and a small half a gallon bucket. 
Drilled holes in the bottom of them. The big one holds all the biological media and the small one just a sponge for now. I’ll add more...
The big bucket fit like a glove on the rim of the sump!
The drain dumps in the small bucket then over the big bucket with the bio media and finally in the sump.
There’s a 2-3” gap between bottom of the bucket and sump bottom .
Pretty much a canister in reverse but washing/cleaning sponges /media is done 5 times faster; at least...
Shrimps are easier to catch as well in that small bucket...I find them all the time in the sump.


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## Andrew T (29 Mar 2020)

Stopped by the LFS today, and noticed they were selling these big 7” 200 micron filter socks.
I always hated the 4” ones cuz fish and shrimp death was almost guaranteed since my hand doesn’t fit inside one of them. 
But this one will work just fine with the large mouth and will polish the water like no other. Almost perfect fit in the small bucket as well.


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## Andrew T (29 Mar 2020)

Added 10 more Amano shrimp for a total of 22.
And while looking around the house for other stuff, stumbled upon some leftover aromatic cedar plank from another project.
Out the compressor came with the brad nailer and went to town.
The “fish closet” was sort of a disaster waiting to happen with all the cables and extensions down by the sump.
Got a little creative and went from this:



To this:


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## Andrew T (31 Mar 2020)

Monte Carlo started to thicken and grow downwards...exactly what I was envisioning.

Hygro needle leaf also growing strong.

All pinnatifida stalks that I had no or little hope for have started putting out new leaves.

Little dirt by the sand line that shall be removed tomorrow but other than that the tank is clean.

Photoperiod increased to 7 hours. Will be 8 in another 2 weeks.
Everyone is out of the pinnatifida uk. AFA went out of stock with my order and never got them anymore.

Found only one pot in the whole US. Really need like 7 pots at this moment to glue to all the wood and rock.
Also thinking to enter the IALPC this year...
End of May is the deadline so there’s hope I can fill this up and shape it by then.
Not expecting anything great, but it would be fun to participate for the first time.

Here’s a quick shot from tonight:


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## Andrew T (1 Apr 2020)

I am building a 4ft x 5 inch shelf above the sump to put all the fish stuff I currently have no space for like dosing liquids, fish food, scissors etc...maybe at 4.5ft height from the ground with a set of 3 spot LED pucks mounted underneath that I have laying around to see what I’m doing when light on the tank is off.

I was contemplating adding some Cyperus Alternifolius in my sump to better filtrate the water.
Am I just giving myself extra work or could this turn into something useful? This is the plant:




I can put the LED pucks on the timer with the main light just to grow this plant.
I have plenty of vertical space in the sump/closet that’s why I’m choosing this plant based on Darrel’s recommendation to another member .
@dw1305 could you offer some insight if this would be only a cool experiment or really be worth it?
Not planning to put this in any dirt; just straight in the water.
I’m all ears...


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## Andrew T (1 Apr 2020)

And these are the LED’s I have.
https://enbrightenme.com/ge-enbrighten-led-puck-lights-white-3-pack
Not sure if they’re enough power at 650 lumens but I’m willing to give them a shot.
3000k is pretty yellow but hey, it’s in the sump no one sees it

On another note, the filter sock is doing its job very well and the water is crystal clear. Look at that waste only after 3 days and there’s no fish in there yet.

Only half of it sits in the water because of the bucket height but that’s good enough for DIY. A custom wet/dry or sump would have allowed water to flow across the whole sock.

I have to order an 8 pack to have on hand extras while others are getting washed.


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## dw1305 (1 Apr 2020)

Hi all,





Andrew T said:


> I was contemplating adding some _Cyperus alternifolius_ in my sump to better filtrate the water.....Am I just giving myself extra work or could this turn into something useful?





Andrew T said:


> Not planning to put this in any dirt; just straight in the water.


Yes, it should be fine. It is a good plant for this sort of thing, and grows well hydroponically. 

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (1 Apr 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes, it should be fine. It is a good plant for this sort of thing, and grows well hydroponically.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks Darrel!
Great then. I’ll order one or two of them.


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## dw1305 (1 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 





Andrew T said:


> I’ll order one or two of them.


They are very easy to grow from a <"leaf cutting">, if you have a source? 

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (1 Apr 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, They are very easy to grow from a <"leaf cutting">, if you have a source?
> 
> cheers Darrel


I was gonna get some locally if the nurseries around here carry it or this one from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-Palm-Plant-Cyperus-Alternifolius/dp/B01LVUTUI9
What do you think? 
Not sure where I would find cuttings...


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## dw1305 (1 Apr 2020)

Hi all,





Andrew T said:


> I was gonna get some locally if the nurseries around here carry it or this one from Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-Palm-Plant-Cyperus-Alternifolius/dp/B01LVUTUI9
> What do you think?
> Not sure where I would find cuttings...


Rooted leaf rosettes would be my guess, they should be fine. 

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew T (2 Apr 2020)

And we have a proper check valve on the needle valve.


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## Andrew T (2 Apr 2020)

Being on lockdown sure gave me ideas...


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## Andrew T (4 Apr 2020)

15 green neon tetras on drip acclimation..
Couple more pots of Hygro pinnatifida uk going in.
Also MC.
Upped the ferts to crazy levels.-10x the Tropica recommendation.
Upped the co2 and flow. Solid yellow DC ; Otto gills still not telling me they’ve had enough; amanos still go about like nothing happened; I put that on the highly oxygenated water from the overflow/sump.

Mad pearling; pics to follow...


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## Andrew T (4 Apr 2020)

Quick shot ...the green tetras can be spotted to the left.
Just planted/glued everything and light went off had a quick minute to take a pic.
Will assess any floaters tomorrow.


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## Andrew T (6 Apr 2020)

When flow is off the green neon tetras school very nicely. 


 
I’m taking a break from uploading any pics of this tank for the next few weeks. Keep saying that lol

I’ll concentrate on setting up my kids tank (DOOA shallow ) right under this tank set up on the ledge at an angle . It’s a great time for it as we are being quarantined for a few more weeks and will have time to watch them work on it. 
This thread has been a huge inspiration for this new tank...just awesome!
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dooa-nano-pond-2-0-ug-and-re-scape.56055/


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## CooKieS (6 Apr 2020)

Lovely simulans! 

would love ton setup a mini pond too but good luck fitting an filter for that dooa


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## Andrew T (6 Apr 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Lovely simulans!
> 
> would love ton setup a mini pond too but good luck fitting an filter for that dooa


Cookies, no filter. I’ll run it just like the other guy without filter or any other water movement.
It could come out great or end up in total disaster; 
however, Aquarium Zen in Seattle has one setup just like that and it’s doing well with no algae. Same light too so I’m pretty confident. I’m sure I took a picture of it at some point last year if I find it I’ll post it!


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## GrowPod (6 Apr 2020)

Love that tank!


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## CooKieS (6 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Cookies, no filter. I’ll run it just like the other guy without filter or any other water movement.
> It could come out great or end up in total disaster;
> however, Aquarium Zen in Seattle has one setup just like that and it’s doing well with no algae. Same light too so I’m pretty confident. I’m sure I took a picture of it at some point last year if I find it I’ll post it!



be aware that @Shinobi did daily water change to avoid algae and get good growth on his pond.


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## Andrew T (6 Apr 2020)

CooKieS said:


> be aware that @Shinobi did daily water change to avoid algae and get good growth on his pond.


Yes took note of that he ended up with weekly WC in the end....it’s so easy to re-scape , clean etc that it will be pretty cool to let the kids play with it. 
They’ll be the ones changing water, cleaning and trimming plants so less work for me


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## Shinobi (6 Apr 2020)

CooKieS said:


> be aware that @Shinobi did daily water change to avoid algae and get good growth on his pond.



These days it's water change every 14 days or so and top off of evaporation every 3 days (there's a very limited amount of water, so it goes quickly). Once substrate has cycled, it becomes very easy to care for. With my latest rescape I just added a couple of substrate tabs from Tropica and saw a pretty substantial boom in growth a week later . 
I used Amazonia which is notoriously high in ammonia during initial cycling, but a less nutritious soil could be applied to ease the startup


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## CooKieS (6 Apr 2020)

Good to know , thanks.

thinking of getting one too, I like the no filter concept but couldn’t do daily WC so will use tropica soil.


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## zozo (6 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> I was gonna get some locally if the nurseries around here carry it or this one from Amazon:
> https://www.amazon.com/Umbrella-Palm-Plant-Cyperus-Alternifolius/dp/B01LVUTUI9
> What do you think?
> Not sure where I would find cuttings...



When you get it, plant some outdoors in a sunny spot this summer and it will grow fast and flower and carry tons of seeds you can collect around August and have an unlimited supply of cyperus forever.





It's like ordinary grass seeds and it germinates very easy...

Seedlings look like this, as you can see the wind blew it into the moss and it germinates rapidly.




But mind it's a quite light demanding plant to keep wet indoors and  outdoors it isn't winterhardy, as soon as the roots freeze it will die.


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## Andrew T (6 Apr 2020)

zozo said:


> When you get it, plant some outdoors in a sunny spot this summer and it will grow fast and flower and carry tons of seeds you can collect around August and have an unlimited supply of cyperus forever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s good info thank you zozo!


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## Andrew T (11 Apr 2020)

Lowered the water level to feed the fish and thought I’d snap a pic.
The moss is the only one collecting dirt and has to be vacuumed every time at water change ...all other plants look great.

Added some of the MC later on so it still has to transition...it seems to me (although not 100% sure) that the Monte Carlo grabs onto the porous lava rock with its roots pretty tightly.

Maybe that’s not the case with smooth rock but that’s at least what I noticed.


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## Andrew T (12 Apr 2020)

DOOA neo glass air is in...kids are excited
Will start a new journal.
This will be interesting...


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## papa_c (12 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> DOOA neo glass air is in...kids are excited



I love how we use kids as a perfectly legitimate and reasonable excuse to convince the better half to somehow squeeze another tank into the house! I would be lying if I said I have never done this before 

Looking forward to seeing how it comes along.....keep up the good work.


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## Andrew T (12 Apr 2020)

papa_c said:


> I love how we use kids as a perfectly legitimate and reasonable excuse to convince the better half to somehow squeeze another tank into the house! I would be lying if I said I have never done this before
> 
> Looking forward to seeing how it comes along.....keep up the good work.


I totally agree with everything you said lol
Although in my defense they really enjoy this little one .
My 60P is 5ft up in the wall ...They usually just stop for a second, look at the fish and move on. My 6 year old has been bugging me for a while now to get her a tank and the quarantine has opened up the perfect opportunity


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## Andrew T (13 Apr 2020)

Unfortunately it was too much work keeping the Aquasoil out of the sand with the high flow and all the amano shrimp digging and moving it left and right.
Sand came out, filled in with new Amazonia and dwarf hairgrass , Monte Carlo , mini pellia on the rocks and more pinnatifida on the wood branches.
Along with the sand I took out the piece of wood that didn’t really go with the flow of the rocks. Should make maintenance a little easier and opened up the flow a little as well...
That’s it for now!


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## Andrew T (22 Apr 2020)

Pinnatifida has been trimmed once already since it grows super fast. 
Need to keep it in check or else it’ll shadow everything underneath...
MC carpet started to fill in nicely...the one on the rocks is out of control.
Needle leaf hygro put out large root system and now really took off...
Had a small co2 leak at one of the connections that was giving me inconsistent bubble count.
Fixed that and at the same time refilled co2 cylinder now all is well.


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## alto (22 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Unfortunately it was too much work keeping the Aquasoil out of the sand with the high flow and all the amano shrimp digging and moving it left and right.


Sand is best without Amano shrimp - or if you must add them, wait for plants to grow in (especially carpet plants along soil/sand transition zones); Corydoras can also wreak havoc with soil/sand (as can any substrate sifting or tunneling fish) 
Flow - at least this can be manipulated 

While the initial hardscape was stunning, this is now a substantially more livestock friendly tank 

Stay on top of the MC on rocks, otherwise it may lift completely as the lower layers deteriorate from lack of light/flow (though it’s easy enough to separate out the best bits for replanting) 

H araguaia is looking grand 

Definitely stay on top of H pinnatifida trimming - it will reluctantly “train”


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## CooKieS (22 Apr 2020)

I grow MMC the same way and I find it to grow very very fast too, needs weekly trimming!

is the vivid full blast?

as for the hygrophila just trim the top very often, it will then start to grow smaller and slower


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## Andrew T (22 Apr 2020)

Thanks guys!
@alto yes I’m much happier with the soil than the sand. Will definitely trim the MC at the next water change.
@CooKieS , do you trim just the bulk of it that’s growing on top of itself or the trailing bits hanging down as well?
I don’t have the vivid I’ve got the Twinstar 600s hung 7 inches above water.


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## CooKieS (22 Apr 2020)

The bulk on the top and some runners too if they don’t grow the way I want to 

I don’t know why but mine is yet growing very slowly, it might be po4 limiting.


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## Andrew T (22 Apr 2020)

CooKieS said:


> The bulk on the top and some runners too if they don’t grow the way I want to
> 
> I don’t know why but mine is yet growing very slowly, it might be po4 limiting.


Are you talking about the pinnatifida being slow to grow?


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## CooKieS (22 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Are you talking about the pinnatifida being slow to grow?



yes! The MMC is still going crazy.


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## Andrew T (22 Apr 2020)

I see...mine started throwing shoots to the sides which is what I was after. Not really sure what the secret is with this plant ; so far high flow and co2 along with EI dosing has suited it well!
Didn’t really bother with high light to get it red since I’m catering to the whole tank not just a plant in particular and don’t want to trim every week


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## CooKieS (22 Apr 2020)

Andrew T said:


> I see...mine started throwing shoots to the sides which is what I was after. Not really sure what the secret is with this plant ; so far high flow and co2 along with EI dosing has suited it well!
> Didn’t really bother with high light to get it red since I’m catering to the whole tank not just a plant in particular and don’t want to trim every week



it does seem to like a lot of co2 , light and nutrients but can do without too. Tried it with lot of light and no3 limitation it gets crazy red but the others plants where starving for no3 so I’m back to normal dosage now.
Tried it in my low tech, grows slow , big and green but in the time older leaves gets pinholes.

still can’t grow it as fast as it was at the beginning but as long as it doesn’t get algae , I’m happy. I was getting staghorn algae on old leaves when limiting no3 and blasting it with high light 

well, fascinating plant!


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## Andrew T (11 May 2020)

Pinnatifida sending side shoots like crazy...
Need to trim this soon!


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## Andrew T (8 Jun 2020)

You know you’ve been slacking when your water change/trim looks like this:


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## Andrew T (9 Jun 2020)

Big trim and water change last night. Had some diatom issues so lowered the light intensity and spent a few hours to clean the tank, including rubbing most of the plant leaves to remove the diatoms.
Removed a lot of the twigs as well; they were turning mushy...
Getting quite some rain the next 10 days so I’ll have a lot more time indoors to enjoy the tank.
Some fish have disappeared, need to re-stock...


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## Andrew T (19 Oct 2020)

This tank has been taken down.
A new 60P replaced it  to get rid of the scratches and the sump...Journal to follow soon!


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## PARAGUAY (19 Oct 2020)

Looking forward to your new one  , great following this one and learned a lot along the way


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## LordMomo (19 Oct 2020)

This looks incredible. Like how you are influenced by nature! Keep up the good work!


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## Karmicnull (19 Oct 2020)

Loved this tank and journal - looking forward to the new one


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