# George's 80cm - final shots



## George Farmer (8 Dec 2007)

My Juwel Rio 125.  Photo taken with my new Canon 10D, after 34 days of growth. 

I think the left ned to lighten up and the narrow fern needs to mature.

Another 4 or 5 weeks I reckon to "completion".







*Light *- 4 x  JBL 18w T8, 9 hours
*Filter* - TetraTec EX 1200, Aquatic Magic glassware, Hydor inline heater
*CO2* - JBL 2Kg + solenoid, Rhinox 2000, 4dKH drop checker
*Substrate* - JBL + silica sand
*Ferts* - 5ml Tropica PN+ daily, 1/2 WC per week

*Fish*
_Hyphessobrycon metae
Hyphessobrycon amandae
Caradina multidentata
Otocinclus sp._

*Plants*
_Glossostigma elatinoides
Eleocharis acicularis
Blyxa japonica
Anubias barteri var. nana
Microsorium pteropus â€˜Narrowâ€™
Bolbitis heudelotii
Rotala sp. â€˜Greenâ€™
Eustaralis stellata_


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## Themuleous (8 Dec 2007)

Interesing George, as you say needs to mature a bit more and for the stems to bush out.  Looking forward to seeing it in 4 ro 5 weeks!

Sam


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## Dave Spencer (8 Dec 2007)

Very nice George.

This should turn in to a decent `V` composition once the Eusteralis stellata has grown and been pruned.

The Hyphessobrycon amandae look great against the green. The deep orange always shows up well. I am considering filling my 240l future project with these, although the ones I can source seem to take forever to settle and show their true colours.

The transition from Glosso to Blyxa and Anubias looks pretty good, too. The stacking of plants from the foreground to the background is first class, IMO.

Photography wise, you may have over exposed a little. Try using exposure compensation and taking it down a step at a time. I generally find slightly underexposing reduces the white out at the tops of the stems nearest the lights, and gives a little more colour saturation with deeper greens.

I expect it is going to take a pretty skilled team of surgeons to amputate the new camera from your paws.  

Dave.


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (8 Dec 2007)

what sort of fert base does the JBL part of the substrate have George? Im intrigued as to how you get away with just dosing 5ml TPN+ per day.


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## George Farmer (8 Dec 2007)

Thanks everyone.

Matt - the JBL stuff is clay-based, no N or P.  My is tap is loaded though. 

The GSA from the Anubias has actually disappeared and the glass rarely needs scraping.  No KH2PO4 in sight...

Interestingly Tropica consider my dosing is very rich.  I actually met the top guys yesterday.


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (8 Dec 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Matt - the JBL stuff is clay-based, no N or P.  My is tap is loaded though.
> 
> ...



interesting  ive just ordered some more TPN and gone for the +, ill cut down the dry and see how it handles it. will be an interesting test.

looks lovely btw  nice job


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## zig (9 Dec 2007)

Hey George hows it going, long time no post from me been busy, its all good, back in time to offer my critique  

It looks good George your nearly there, the foreground/ midground is excellent, I think the stems need a bit of attention though (pretty sure you know that) overall very good though so far IMHO.

I am also using the Tropica+ on 2 tanks atm, on a low light tank I got GSA all over the plants/glass etc, I had to add some phosphate from PO4 to get rid of it.

On the other tank (highlight tank 5WPG) its working well but that tank has Aquasoil, Im dosing 2ml per day on that one with regular water changes, 54L tank.


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## George Farmer (9 Dec 2007)

Thanks, Peter.   I'm good but very busy too...

I've just performed a minor re-scape.  It'll be updated on the PFK blog soon.

Here's a half decent shot of the fish.  I've a long way to go before I even scratch the surface of this camera's potential.


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## Arana (9 Dec 2007)

Loving it George  I hope all your PFK readers will be inspired by it!


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (9 Dec 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks, Peter.   I'm good but very busy too...
> 
> I've just performed a minor re-scape.  It'll be updated on the PFK blog soon.
> 
> Here's a half decent shot of the fish.  I've a long way to go before I even scratch the surface of this camera's potential.



wish i could get my anubias looking like that


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## George Farmer (9 Dec 2007)

Frolicsome_Flora said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tropica plants + Tropica ferts is half the story I think.


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## Graeme Edwards (9 Dec 2007)

Looking good mate.

Just looking at your main full tank shot........ have you fiddled with it in any way? For the 10D the pic quality is abit below what i would expect. It looks like youve put it into photo shop and fiddled with the contrast, shaddows and sharpness, it just looks a little paculiar for such a good camara. Im not picking falt mate, just my initial reaction to the photo its self not the scape. The scape is ace, deffinatly need to work on those stems, get them looking oober bushy. The for to mid is looking very ADA, which is nice.

Graeme.


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## james3200 (9 Dec 2007)

very nice, look forward to it maturing and bushing out


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## James Flexton (9 Dec 2007)

it looks lovely mate, the only thing i would add is there seems to be something missing from the far right mid ground. i would put something in front of the stems by the side glass at the moment it seems to just stop and not fade out to the side if that makes any sense.

only a minor thing though. it looks really healthy and i like the variation of colour and texture which is further added to by the use of wood and rock. beautiful.


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## George Farmer (9 Dec 2007)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Looking good mate.
> 
> Just looking at your main full tank shot........ have you fiddled with it in any way? For the 10D the pic quality is abit below what i would expect. It looks like youve put it into photo shop and fiddled with the contrast, shaddows and sharpness, it just looks a little paculiar for such a good camara. Im not picking falt mate, just my initial reaction to the photo its self not the scape. The scape is ace, deffinatly need to work on those stems, get them looking oober bushy. The for to mid is looking very ADA, which is nice.
> 
> Graeme.



Thanks mate.

Yes, I did a lot of post-processing using crappy MS Picture It.  I also used my old desktop PC with CRT monitor, hence why I've over-sharpened, too much contrast etc.  When I see the image on my laptop it looks awful!

How about the fish photo, Graeme?

I'll be using the tripod tonight and trying out different ISOs, WBs etc.  Should be fun!

Do you use aperture priority with auto focus (set on lens) most of the time?


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## johnny70 (9 Dec 2007)

Thats a very beautiful looking tank, i wish my knoweldge and skill was anywhere near this level  

JOHNNY


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## George Farmer (9 Dec 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> it looks lovely mate, the only thing i would add is there seems to be something missing from the far right mid ground. i would put something in front of the stems by the side glass at the moment it seems to just stop and not fade out to the side if that makes any sense.



Thanks for the tip, James.


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## Graeme Edwards (9 Dec 2007)

The fish pics are good for how you've taken them, but after seeing Daves fash gun, i think a flash would be a wise investmant, something ill have to get myself.

You can tell you fiddled with the levels ect.

I would use a tripod, set the cam to partial segmented metering ( i tried this at Dans, on his tank, it gives the best reading by far ) and use AV, set to around 6-8f. The auto focuse will be a switch on the lens.

Graeme.


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## George Farmer (10 Dec 2007)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> The fish pics are good for how you've taken them, but after seeing Daves fash gun, i think a flash would be a wise investmant, something ill have to get myself.
> 
> You can tell you fiddled with the levels ect.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Graeme.

Yes, I've been looking at second hand studio flashes.

I know about the AF/M swtich on the lens, thanks.  I was asking what you normally shoot - auto or manual focus?

I need to figure out the metering settings.  Time to read the manual again!

I can't seem to get a real sharp full tank shot.  I used tripod and self-timer, various settings (ISO, Tv, Av, range of f-stops, shutter speeds etc.)  Some shots were clearly better than others but when zoomed in the clarity isn't great.  Not what I'd expect anyway.

Any ideas?  Maybe the metering is the key?

Cheers mate.


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## Tom (10 Dec 2007)

For my full tank shots I use my tripod, have the camera in AV mode with the aperture between 4 and 8 dependant on light. Then I set it on the timer and leave it to take it. I use manual focus and set it to something like a rock thats roughly in the midground. They came out pretty good that way. But I was using an "L" lens so that may have helped with sharpness. 

Tom


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## George Farmer (10 Dec 2007)

Tom said:
			
		

> For my full tank shots I use my tripod, have the camera in AV mode with the aperture between 4 and 8 dependant on light. Then I set it on the timer and leave it to take it. I use manual focus and set it to something like a rock thats roughly in the midground. They came out pretty good that way. But I was using an "L" lens so that may have helped with sharpness.
> 
> Tom



Thanks, Tom.


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## Graeme Edwards (10 Dec 2007)

As Tom says, put it on a timer, hat way your not having a slight wobble when pressing the shutter. ISO is prberbly best around 200, thats what i use anyway. Check your file type. I know on my 350D you can select fine or medium quality JPG, i wouldnt bother with RAW. 
You really need to sort your metering out. On the 350D, multy segmented gives the best results, with regards even high lights,shadows and color rendition. Again, check your white ballance too, AWB, is usualy best but shade and florecant can work well too.
I shoot in auto, but use the selection points for making my focus points. Your apature may have something to do with your blur. If its very low like f4 ( AV 4 ) then there will only be a very small section in your picture that looks sharp, and if that section is in open water or in a shaded area, then you wont see it.

Hopefully youl get it sorted mate.


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## George Farmer (10 Dec 2007)

Thanks, Graeme.  Appreciate the advice.

I have three metering modes to play with.  I'll try that next.  

I've sussed WB I think - I have 7 modes plus 100K increments up to 10000K.  Pretty cool.

I've tried tripod on self-timer.  I used that technique with my compact.

What's the compromise with lower f-stops (higher DOF)?  Shouldn't full tank shots be done on as low as poss to get everything as sharp as possible?  I understand smaller DOFs for close-ups for effect.

Is it because the aperture is so small with high DOF, so you need more light - more ISO?

What impact does ISO have on image clarity, or is it purely for lower light/moving objects?  I know high ISO has noise but it's not noticeable upto 800 for me.  I can go 3200 but it's awful.

Thanks again for your help.  It's nice to be a newbie again and get advice!


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## Tom (10 Dec 2007)

> Is it because the aperture is so small with high DOF, so you need more light - more ISO?



Yup, and you will need longer exposures so anything that moves (fish and long leaves) will blur and look nasty. White/backlit backgrounds seem to prefer faster exposures otherwise I find they "blow out" easier.



> What impact does ISO have on image clarity, or is it purely for lower light/moving objects? I know high ISO has noise but it's not noticeable upto 800 for me. I can go 3200 but it's awful.



If you don't notice noise at 800, use it to your advantage. I could only get away with up to 400 on my 350d before it went grainy. 

Tom


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## Fred Dulley (10 Dec 2007)

Tank looks excellent George. 
Just wondering where you got the wood? Sorry if you have said before.

Anyone know where to get some really good branchy wood online? Not too expensive mind.


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## Dan Crawford (11 Dec 2007)

Hi Fred, aqua essentials sells rose wood and it rocks but it's about Â£25 for a medium piece which will probably spread about 400mm square. If you ask your LFS to look into stocking wood from UniPac (a wholesaler) then they may be able to get it in for you, thats the wood George has used.
Cheers
Dan


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## Dave Spencer (11 Dec 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Yes, I did a lot of post-processing using crappy MS Picture It.  I also used my old desktop PC with CRT monitor, hence why I've over-sharpened, too much contrast etc.  When I see the image on my laptop it looks awful!.



Should have got a hold of Photoshop 7 when you had the chance, George.  

The unsharp mask, when used in moderation, really does bring everything in to sharp focus.

If you are taking pictures of individual plant stems, then stop the lens wide open (low _f _ number) to give a shallow depth of field, allowing the viewer to just concentrate on the specimen itself. The background becomes blurred, making it less distracting.

This is also the best method for photographing fish, because the increased light levels will give you a fast enough shutter speed to freeze their motion. Unfortunately, the little buggers move around. What I would do here is to manually focus on a particular spot the fish frequent, bearing in mind the background, and fire off the shutter every time they are in position. I guess this will be awkward if you are using the timer. My remote shutter  release is a must for me, when using a tripod.

Having said all this, you have taken some excellent pictures using a P + S, so you will have this camera nailed in no time.

Dave.


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## Fred Dulley (11 Dec 2007)

BigDanne said:
			
		

> Hi Fred, aqua essentials sells rose wood and it rocks but it's about Â£25 for a medium piece which will probably spread about 400mm square. If you ask your LFS to look into stocking wood from UniPac (a wholesaler) then they may be able to get it in for you, thats the wood George has used.
> Cheers
> Dan



Hi.
Yeah, I saw the rose wood on AE, not in stock and like you said, it's a tad expensive for me.
I will ask my LFS (my work too   ) if we can get something in.

P.S sorry for the hi-jack George.


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## George Farmer (20 Dec 2007)

Coming along nicely.  I'm looking forward to the Ludwigia arcuata filling in.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... blogid=145


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## beeky (20 Dec 2007)

As you said, it looks very 'clean'.

Do you have any issues with algae growing on rocks, wood, glass etc? I think I understand the processes involved in preventing algae on the plants but what about 'dead' items of decoration?

I know it doesn't make pretty looking pictures but could we see where you've placed your in-tank equipment for general day-to-day running?

Do you use Purigen or the like? As wot some bard wrote "How can l describe your water? Crystal is muddy by comparison". Didn't know I was cultured did ya?


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## George Farmer (20 Dec 2007)

beeky said:
			
		

> Do you have any issues with algae growing on rocks, wood, glass etc? I think I understand the processes involved in preventing algae on the plants but what about 'dead' items of decoration?



I have minor algae on the rocks but it gives them a sense of age.

The wood is kept clean by the 24 Amano shrimp and 6 otos.



> I know it doesn't make pretty looking pictures but could we see where you've placed your in-tank equipment for general day-to-day running?



The photos are all taken with running gear as it is.  I have taken nothing away or moved anything for the photos.  I'll save that for the final shoot with studio flashes etc.

The heater is in-line with the filter.

The filter inlet/outlet are glass lily pipes with clear tubing.

You can easily see the CO2 diffuser and drop checker



> Do you use Purigen or the like? As wot some bard wrote "How can l describe your water? Crystal is muddy by comparison". Didn't know I was cultured did ya?



Yes, I'm running Purigen.  It took a while for me to notice but clarity has improved.  The water when I empty for WCs looks blue it is so clean.

Thanks.


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## Themuleous (21 Dec 2007)

Coming along nicely  Do you not find the wood on the left makes too much of a solid barrier?  Seems to cut off the very left of the tank?

Just a thought 

Sam

PS - So you're a convert to purigen now then?


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## gt568 (21 Dec 2007)

Hi mate,

I'm a bit confused about the purigen, how do you use it?  Does it just get added to the filter?

Did the tank "bow" when you removed the brace at all?

I'll give you a bell over xmas, are you going to be at home?


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## George Farmer (21 Dec 2007)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Coming along nicely  Do you not find the wood on the left makes too much of a solid barrier?  Seems to cut off the very left of the tank?
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> ...



Thanks for your input, as always, Sam.

Yes, I like Purigen.



			
				gt568 said:
			
		

> Hi mate,
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the purigen, how do you use it?  Does it just get added to the filter?
> 
> ...



Hi mate

Purigen 100ml comes in a bag that you put in your external canister filter.  I guess it may work in your Juwel internal if you remove a sponge.

The tank bows a little.  Seems ok though...

At home all xmas.


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## George Farmer (23 Dec 2007)

Iâ€™ve been covering this aquascapeâ€™s progress from scratch, week-by-week, on the PFK blogs.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... oglist.php
















*Tank *â€“ Juwel Rio 125 with hood and brace removed (80 x 35 x 45cm) 
*Filter* â€“ TetraTec EX 1200, ADA Clear Hose, Aquatic Magic lily pipes, Hydor inline heater
*Light *â€“ Arcadia overtank luminaire (4 x 24w T5), 2 x Arcadia Plant Pro, 2 x JBL 9000K, 9 hours
*CO2* â€“ JBL pressurized system, 1BPS through Rhinox 2000, 4dKH drop checker
*Substrate* â€“ JBL Proflora 200 and silica sand
*Ferts* â€“ Tropica AquaCare Plant Nutrition+ 5ml per day

Stems still have some way to go.  Thereâ€™s some Ludwigia arcuata lurking in there readyâ€¦ 

Iâ€™m enjoying watching this develop through my new toy, a Canon EOS 10D.

Happy Christmas and New Year!


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## tgc (23 Dec 2007)

Looks spot on George, 

Cheers


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## Dave Spencer (23 Dec 2007)

Looks great, George.

The first picture is very nice indeed. What I like about Hyphessobrycon amandae is the way they always show up against a green background. The Ludwigia arcuata should really compliment them once it turns orangy red.

My only reservation is that there appears to be two discrete sides to the tank. The Blyxa on the left doesn`t seem to be strong enough to link the two sides just yet.

One other thing is that I hardly notice you have left all the hardware in the tank, which shows the beauty of inline heaters, glassware etc. It certainly makes photography a little easier as well. All you need now is to fork out on a CO2 reactor.  

What is the plant sat near the top of the wood on the left....Bolbitis heudolotii?

Dave.


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## CJ Castle (23 Dec 2007)

Nice progress...

The midground is looking especially good (loving the Blyxa)...

Excellent fish choice; the Hyphessobrycon amandae really standout amongst the mass of green...


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## Ed Seeley (24 Dec 2007)

Looking good George.  I didn't even see the tetras in the first picture!!!  The disadvantage of being red-green colour blind!!!!

I kinda agree with Dave's point.  Maybe it'd work better visually if the Blyxa could be one continuous ribbon across the middle to the clump in front of the Narrow fern?  Of course, you are far more experienced at this than me so may want to ignore that!!!


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## George Farmer (24 Dec 2007)

Thanks, guys.

I see you points about two sides.  Patience...


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## Arana (24 Dec 2007)

Looking lovely George   you must bring your camera to the Febuary get together, i could do with some decent pics


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## George Farmer (24 Dec 2007)

Thanks.

Dan, Graeme and Dave all have DSLR cameras too - and have had more practice!  But I'll bring mine anyway.


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## Arana (24 Dec 2007)

cool... i have just been out and bought a digital video camera for the wifes xmas present so i'm sure we could make good use of that too


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## TDI-line (26 Dec 2007)

Looking tip-top as usual George.


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## andy (26 Dec 2007)

I like that set up George....very nice indeed.

Do you have any tips for keeping Blyxa....i've never kept it before but it's on my wish list for the new tank.

Andy


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## George Farmer (26 Dec 2007)

Thanks.

Blyxa seems fairly easy, but I do have good light and nutrients.  I suspect a nutrient-rich substrate will help a lot too.


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## zig (30 Dec 2007)

Hows this tank coming along George?


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## George Farmer (3 Jan 2008)

New pics.


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## sks (3 Jan 2008)

I will be using Blyxa in my background of my tank overhaul. Hope it's not too difficult.

Superb set up George, hope to have something like this, but I seriously doubt it given my level of experience with planted tanks.


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## George Farmer (3 Jan 2008)

sks said:
			
		

> I will be using Blyxa in my background of my tank overhaul. Hope it's not too difficult.


I've found Blyxa quite easy.  Thanks to JamesC for supplying good stock too...

With 2wpg, good CO2, substrate and water column ferts, I think anyone can grow it.  Even my water is hard.


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## Tom (3 Jan 2008)

Thats really looking nice now, all your tanks all look so healthy and clean.

My only thought is that the wood looks odd and the tank might even look better without it or perhaps with another piece on the right. At the moment it looks like two seperate halves to me rather than one scape. 

Tom


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## George Farmer (4 Jan 2008)

Thanks, Tom.

You're the third person to mention the 'two halves'.

I think once the Rotala on the left has matured, the wood will almost disappear entirely, leaving a better balance.


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## Tom (4 Jan 2008)

> I think once the Rotala on the left has matured, the wood will almost disappear entirely, leaving a better balance.



That would look better  

Tom


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## gt568 (4 Jan 2008)

Looks good mate.  The fish look really nice.  Have you had too pull up any of the stems or are you just trimming them?

Being back at work this early is pump too, not that you'd know.


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## George Farmer (4 Jan 2008)

gt568 said:
			
		

> Looks good mate.  The fish look really nice.  Have you had too pull up any of the stems or are you just trimming them?
> 
> Being back at work this early is pump too, not that you'd know.



Hi mate

Good to see you on here.

I've not pulled any stems yet.  I will need to in another few weeks I reckon, when the bottoms can't cope with all the new growth.

I'm back to work Montag.  Can't wait to start getting up a 0530 every morning again!


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## james3200 (4 Jan 2008)

Maturing nicely George

Not to sure about the blyxa in the foreground infront of the wood, id like to see more anubias and rocks with a more full glosso carpet. The rotala also could do with a few stems infront to fill it up a bit, but if your replanting the tops soon that should sort itself out 

Look forward to its development


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## George Farmer (4 Jan 2008)

james3200 said:
			
		

> Maturing nicely George
> 
> Not to sure about the blyxa in the foreground infront of the wood, id like to see more anubias and rocks with a more full glosso carpet. The rotala also could do with a few stems infront to fill it up a bit, but if your replanting the tops soon that should sort itself out
> 
> Look forward to its development



Thanks for the detailed critique, James.  Always interesting to hear different opinions...


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## gt568 (4 Jan 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> gt568 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



0530, a lie in then  

Trimming the tops has been great on my red rotala, really filling up the tank, and to think all the years I've wasted uprooting stems


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## George Farmer (6 Jan 2008)

Well...

Jeremy and Dan popped over yesterday and blagged some stuff including most of my glosso and hairgrass.

Later on I decided to remove my wood and it's ripped up most of the Rotala and Blyxa.

So a major re-scape is in order (any excuse for me, much to my wife's dismay!)  

I'm keeping most of the plants but going for something quite different, more suited to the height of the tank.

So watch this space.

(I've moved this from _White Room_ to _Journals_).


*Just after removing wood.*


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## Ed Seeley (6 Jan 2008)

Got any shots from the front George?  From this angle looks a lot more open (obviously) but can't really say much more at this angle.


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jan 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Well...
> 
> Jeremy and Dan popped over yesterday and blagged some stuff including most of my glosso and hairgrass.



It's gone to a good home!  

Trust me guys, this tank is the nuts! photos don't do it justice.


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## GreenNeedle (10 Jan 2008)

George

I have just read your latest blog on this tank and noted a couple of things.

You say that you have got a white film developing on the surface.  Guess what.....I moved my pipes to the same position as yours last week and I have the same.

I used to have the lily pipe rippling the surface in the old position but put it under the water as I was copying you this time and sure enough the 'protein' film arrived on cue.

I'm not so sure it is a protein film if you are geting it too as you won't be feeding your fish much as they are small.  I feed quite a lot as I have to put boodworm in for the plecs and Rams and then cater for the tetras.

Could this film be something to do with the Tropica? or sulphates? or the way you use bleach then dechlor on the CO2 disc or something else?  

If I have it now and haven't in the past (admittedly I was previously moving the water permanently) then I don't think its to do with lighting.  (I am after all using 1 x 30W HO T5 and 1 x 18W T8 over the same size tank!!!

The other thing I noted is that you say the narrow leaf is now perking up.  Has it attached?  Was I right about this 'quirk'

Andy


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## JamesC (10 Jan 2008)

There are different types of surface scum. The one I get is caused by, believe it or not, *Iron Bacteria*. It can be recognised by if you break it with your finger it doesn't flow back together and has a blueish hint to it. If you have a fatty scum then this is caused by lipids leaching out of the plants.

This website is in German but is very good - http://www.aquamax.de/HG27UG02.htm

James


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## Ray (10 Jan 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> The other thing I noted is that you say the narrow leaf is now perking up.  Has it attached?  Was I right about this 'quirk'


What "quirk" is that Andy?


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## GreenNeedle (11 Jan 2008)

I suggested that quite often plant I put into my tank that need attaching i.e. ferns, anubias etc. seem to suffer after a week or so and I end up hacking away the suffering leaves.  Then after a month or so when their roots attach properly they suddenly perk up and grow wonderfully.

Superb link that James.

Andy


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## George Farmer (29 Jan 2008)

Check out the re-scape...

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... blogid=155


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## Dan Crawford (29 Jan 2008)

Loving it George. Your best 80cm yet IMO.


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## George Farmer (29 Jan 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Loving it George. Your best 80cm yet IMO.



Thanks mate!

Should look nicer in a couple of weeks once the left fills in more too.

I have more Anubias and downoi on their way also.


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## james3200 (29 Jan 2008)

Nice one George, good move.

Not sure about that big central rock though, i don't think it needs to be there, perhaps another stem would work better?


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## JamesC (29 Jan 2008)

Looking good George. Don't like the central rock I'm afraid. Too dominant all by itself and right in the middle. Possibly move it slightly to the right and angle it forward a bit.

Have you ever thought about a splash of red? A red sunset over the top of the forest type effect. Can look quite stunning. Something for the future maybe?

James


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## Themuleous (29 Jan 2008)

Yeh nice re-scape. Same comment re the central rock, however once the background stems grow out a bit that should soften it up so no need to move it just yet I wouldn't think

BTW what substrate you using?  Tropica I assume  pure or with a gravel cap?

Sam


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## George Farmer (29 Jan 2008)

I knew it - you'd all comment on the central rock! 

Everyone's an expert eh!?   

I love it, so there...  

Golden ratio - Golden smatio.  Tension....


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## Garuf (29 Jan 2008)

It just wants being less central that's all.


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## George Farmer (29 Jan 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> It just wants being less central that's all.



Thanks for the clarification, Garuf.

I like it where it is for now though.  Maybe I'll move it once the 'scape has matured a bit.

Sometimes breaking the 'rules' can work.  Sometimes not.  We'll see...

And thanks to everyone for the feedback, really.  I was only joking with my mini-rant.


----------



## TDI-line (29 Jan 2008)

Very nice scape George. 

Love the Pogostemon helferi, might have to use this for a covering foreground plant.....


----------



## Dan Crawford (30 Jan 2008)

It seems that everyone is concentrating on the glass box that the aquascape is set within.......?
From a design point of view your eye is drawn to the mass of plants on the right in which the rock is placed perfectly according to the golden ratio. 






If you are to look at the actual tank then yes the rock is placed bang smack in the centre but IMO when looking at an aquascape it's the positioning of things within the _scape_ as opposed to the _tank_.
Just my thoughts on an aquascape that i don't believe deserved such a bashing.


----------



## JamesC (30 Jan 2008)

That's clever thinking there Dan. Not quite sure I agree, but I like the idea.

Not that I really know what I'm talking about but something a bit striking to pull your eye away from the central rock may help.

Interesting to see how this one develops.

James


----------



## George Farmer (30 Jan 2008)

Thanks, Dan.

I have to admit that I don't really think too hard about placing focal points these days.  I put it where I think it looks best, trying to take into consideration growth also.

Clearly this has been picked up by a few as being 'too central', that is fair enough, as that's interpretation.  It will be interesting to see how any judges may see this.

It's interesting that the grids show that my 'instinct' does conform to the golden ratio if using the main plant group.  The negative space on the left, as Dan suggests, is designed to be almost insignificant, providing contrast to the fuller planting.  I tried explaining this in my blog.

It's easy to say, but when you see the tank in the flesh, it looks more balanced still.  Maybe because you have the three dimensions.

A small photograph doesn't accurately reflect this, of course.

I have some exciting plans for final photography involving over 300w of HO T5...


----------



## johnny70 (30 Jan 2008)

Another beautiful tank, really stunning, I love it

JOHNNY


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Jan 2008)

IMHO the central rock is very dominant (as you intended I think George?).  I think it might be more 'balanced' if there was a counterpoint rock sticking up from the low area, but it sounds like you're not worried about or intending that!  The slope with the stems looks superb.


----------



## George Farmer (3 Feb 2008)

The first shot was taken into my hallway mirror.  I quite liked the effect.


----------



## Graeme Edwards (3 Feb 2008)

Nice photo's mate.
Tanks looking good too!!
Have you finaly got your head round the digital SLR then?


----------



## Garuf (3 Feb 2008)

Photo #1 ia oh so very myspace, cool picture though!


----------



## George Farmer (4 Feb 2008)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Nice photo's mate.
> Tanks looking good too!!
> Have you finaly got your head round the digital SLR then?



Thanks mate.

Yeah, I'm getting there.  I've figured out the settings, pretty much.  Now I need to concentrate on technique and composition.

Hopefully Neil Hepworth is going to flog me a 100mm macro lens.  Then I need to think about flashes really.

These were taken with an old Tamron 28-200mm, designed for a 35mm SLR.


----------



## TDI-line (4 Feb 2008)

Lovely shots George, any more macro ones?


----------



## zig (5 Feb 2008)

I like it, it could be one of your best with a little bit more work IMHO.


----------



## George Farmer (5 Feb 2008)

zig said:
			
		

> I like it, it could be one of your best with a little bit more work IMHO.



Thanks mate.

I'll need a lot more work to get anyway near your standard though...


----------



## Dave Spencer (7 Feb 2008)

I keep missing posts because my new post function doesn`t work sometimes.

That`s a very nice triangle, George.

Regarding getting to grips with your camera, between aperture and shutter priority, you will find the fashion priority option. Select this, and it brings your fashion sense in your pics in to the 21st century.  

Just kidding....honest.

Nice DoF, especially on the shrimp pic, although the tails are a little out of focus, with a little too much rock in focus. Still, it`s not exactly something I have mastered.  

Dave.


----------



## Themuleous (7 Feb 2008)

Dam lovely scape that George, the pearling plant shot is amazing too, it must be like lemonade in the tank!

Sam


----------



## George Farmer (7 Feb 2008)

Dave - thanks for the photo critique.  Makes a change to 'scaping critiques....  

 I shoot Av generally.  Tv for moving fish set to around 1/250 but the high ISO (and DoF) is the compromise, of course.  

I'm looking into flash options as we speak.  I'll be using both my 4 x 54w T5 and 4 x 24w T5 luminaires for final shoot if I don't have a flash.

Sam - thanks.  There's actually not too much pearling due to my 'lean' dosing (5ml TPN+ per day).  I expect if I added more NPK then I'd see more, but I'd have to run more vigourous CO2.  This way suits me and the growth isn't too excessive for maint.  It's all about trade-offs...

The Rotala pic was taken after a water change, hence the mad pearling.

I was messing about with new hardscape last night.  Some midori wood from Aqua Essentials (look out for PFK review soon...)  I still like the rock better though.  And it aint moving, before anyone asks...  8)


----------



## Garuf (7 Feb 2008)

Can't wait to see what you do with the midori, I'm looking into the possibility of using some instead of the manzatani I have in my cube. 
How do you find it for scaping?


----------



## George Farmer (9 Feb 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Can't wait to see what you do with the midori, I'm looking into the possibility of using some instead of the manzatani I have in my cube.
> How do you find it for scaping?



It's nice.  Some pieces float so they soaking for a while first.


----------



## George Farmer (9 Feb 2008)

The left side is filling in nicely.

I've put some Lilaeopsis in there too.  I'm hoping it will create a pleasing, more complex texture when grown in with the hairgrass, glosso and P. helferi.


----------



## Dave Spencer (10 Feb 2008)

What kind of a budget are you working to for a flash, George?

I ask because you may want to consider using the flash off camera, which will mean budgeting for a synch cord, and they are not cheap. Good old eBay could be your friend.

Dave.


----------



## George Farmer (11 Feb 2008)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> What kind of a budget are you working to for a flash, George?
> 
> I ask because you may want to consider using the flash off camera, which will mean budgeting for a synch cord, and they are not cheap. Good old eBay could be your friend.
> 
> Dave.



Hi Dave

I think I'm going to get the Canon 430EX flash with ET-S2 wireless transmitter.  Total cost new around 250 notes.  

Do you have those clamps to attach the flash onto the tank glass?  I've seen Neil Hepworth use them and they do the job nicely.


----------



## Simon (11 Feb 2008)

George,

The ST-E2 does not work if  anything  gets in the way of the infra-red signal. You'll be much better off with radio triggers. Have a look on Ebay, you can get a transmitter and receiver that will fit your Canon flash from China.....around 15 quid, and they work just fine.

You'll also be limited with the ST-E2 to working in ETTL. For what you want, I would have thought manual flash would be far better.


----------



## George Farmer (11 Feb 2008)

Simon said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> The ST-E2 does not work if  anything  gets in the way of the infra-red signal. You'll be much better off with radio triggers. Have a look on Ebay, you can get a transmitter and receiver that will fit your Canon flash from China.....around 15 quid, and they work just fine.
> 
> You'll also be limited with the ST-E2 to working in ETTL. For what you want, I would have thought manual flash would be far better.



Hi Simon

Thanks!

I'm new to all this...   

Can you explain why manual is better than ETTL, please?


----------



## Simon (11 Feb 2008)

With ETTL the camera is making the exposure decisions....and it is not always consistant.

With the flash in manual mode you have full control.  And once you find a flash setting that's to your taste/look your exposures should be the same every time.

In fact, for aquarium photography I would be inclined to set both the camera mode and the flash to manual. You them can concentrate on catching the fish in the right position without worrying about camera exposure settings.


----------



## Simon (11 Feb 2008)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Trigger-fit ... dZViewItem

Heres a link for the cheap radio triggers


----------



## nry (11 Feb 2008)

I'm curious on the Lilaeopsis, wondered about some myself, but some report it grows like mad and others say it is slow growing - is it an invasive plant or one that is easy to control?


----------



## George Farmer (12 Feb 2008)

Thanks for the link, Simon.

Chris - I think early descriptions of most Lilaeopsis were slow before good light, CO2 and ferts were the 'norm'.  Like most carpets, I'd imagine it is quite invasive without regular maintenance in a hi-tech set up.


----------



## Dave Spencer (12 Feb 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> [
> Hi Dave
> 
> I think I'm going to get the Canon 430EX flash with ET-S2 wireless transmitter.  Total cost new around 250 notes.
> ...



I reckon I should have gone wireless.....maybe one day.

I haven`t given those clamps a go. Using a light box is the way ahead for me at the moment. I am just about to rescape my 60cm overgrown Iwagumi, so I hope to get a lot of experimenting done, but I do like the diffused look the light box gives.

Flash photography requires a lot of experimenting, something I haven`t had time to do lately, although I have had good results using the flash on TTL.....good ole Nikon.

Dave.

P.S. Any chance of a Neil Hepworth workshop for those of trying to get to grips with aquatic photography?


----------



## George Farmer (15 Feb 2008)

Update -


----------



## Dan Crawford (15 Feb 2008)

It just keeps getting better!


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Feb 2008)

Oooh, love it George. What stem is that in the back?

Cheers,


----------



## Arana (15 Feb 2008)

Another stunner george


----------



## JamesC (15 Feb 2008)

Very nice George. Even the rock some of us moaned about earlier looks great now. Well done for sticking with it. That blyxa grows big doesn't it? Is that a hint of red I see behind some of the Blyxa at the back?

James


----------



## George Farmer (16 Feb 2008)

Thanks guys.

There's some Rotala rotundifolia trying to break through but it's not doing so well.

I reckon I'll be taking final photos soon, before the Blyxa dominates too much (I may thin it out now...)

I think I'm going for a low-maint planted 'scape next.  W.African biotope with no rooted plants.  Tom Barr gave me the idea.


----------



## Tom (16 Feb 2008)

So what would you be using? Bolbitis? What mosses are from W. Africa?

Tank looks really nice by the way    Definitely prefer it like this than when it had the wood in it 

Tom


----------



## George Farmer (18 Feb 2008)

Thanks, Tom.

I quite fancy using just Anubias, a few varieties.  Low light, CO2, Excel, and plenty of herbivores to hopefully prevent algae.  Not sure on fish though.  Congo tetras get too big maybe for 125 l.

Re. this 'scape I'm going to take final photos this week.  The Blyxa is going bonkers and I can't be asked thinning out and waiting again...


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2008)

How about some of the less common Pelvicachromis?

Tom


----------



## George Farmer (18 Feb 2008)

Good idea.  Never kept kribs etc. before.  

Any ideas for small W.African dither fish?


----------



## tgc (18 Feb 2008)

I can vouch for kribs, excellent fish, don't dig too much if you hide a little cave for them, breed in no time, I used to watch mine for hours when they would take the babys for a swim!!


----------



## Ed Seeley (18 Feb 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Good idea.  Never kept kribs etc. before.
> 
> Any ideas for small W.African dither fish?



There are various small West African barbs, such as Barbus jae and the Butterfly barb, as well as a lots of smaller killifish like Lampeyes as well as Chromaphyosemion group killies with gorgeous male colouration.  There's also a fair few small West African tetras like Jelly Bean tetras too!  

As to the Pelvicachromis, stick with group 2 species like P.pulcher, P.taeniatus (I will have some young 'Bipindi' to move on in about 10 weeks...), P.suboccellatus (I've got the stunning 'Matadi' form of these too) P.sacrimontis or P.roloffi.  They're all ace fish and any would be fine for an 80cm tank.  The group 1 Kribs are too boisterous for that size unless you really know what you're doing (No offence!!!   )


----------



## George Farmer (18 Feb 2008)

Thanks Ed.

I'd stick with a pair of kribs, then a shoal of dither fish. 

By then I'll have probably changed my mind a dozen times though.  

So many fish, so little time...


----------



## nry (18 Feb 2008)

If I ever re-did my 15-gallon fish stock I would go for a single shoal of pygmy cory.  Amazing little things, and they shoal well in larger groups and become less shy.  Often hang around in the mid levels when happy too.


----------



## Ed Seeley (18 Feb 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> So many fish, so little time...



I know the feeling; must get a fish house sorted...

You really might want to consider the taeniatus though, much classier IMHO and there are some very nice forms that are even nicer than the standard krib - Nigeria Red springs to mind!


----------



## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

*Final shots*

These are some final shots from this aquascape - entitled "Blyxa Hills".

The tank is now stripped, ready for my next 'scape.  A PFK blog will be coming soon.

I'm giving excess plants away - those already know who they are so please don't 'pester' me! 

I'm not showing full tank shots due to the introduction of a new Tropica plant, and ADA frown upon showing contest entry images prior to judging.

_This was taken from the left hand side glass.  I like triangular compositions for this reason, as it's a whole new 'scape when viewed from the side_




_Foreground transition_




_More Blyxa..._




_Rio meta tetra_




_More Blyxa and new rock composition_




_Shrimp_


----------



## Dan Crawford (9 Mar 2008)

Fantastic shots mate! Its a great looking tank and should do very very well in the ADA contest.


----------



## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

Cheers mate!  Hopefully it'll beat 775th...


----------



## Garuf (9 Mar 2008)

What are you feeding those embers?! Mine never go that orange, ever.


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## Arana (9 Mar 2008)

Lovely shots, want to see the whole thing even more now...YOU TEASE


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## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

_This was taken from the left hand side glass.  I like triangular compositions for this reason, as it's a whole new 'scape when viewed from the side_





_Foreground transition_




_More Blyxa..._




_Rio meta tetra_




_More Blyxa and new rock composition_




_Shrimp_


----------



## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> What are you feeding those embers?! Mine never go that orange, ever.



New Era flake, JBL colour enhancing microgranules, JBL NovaTab, Nutrafin flake, Tetra ProCrisp, frozen brineshrimp.  Little and often.



			
				Arana said:
			
		

> Lovely shots, want to see the whole thing even more now...YOU TEASE



Cheers!


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## Themuleous (9 Mar 2008)

Very nice pics, the rocks look so clean!!!


----------



## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Very nice pics, the rocks look so clean!!!



Some are new, some have been bleached.  Also 20+ shrimp and 6 otos.

ADA mark down for algae on rocks...


----------



## Themuleous (9 Mar 2008)

Right I did wonder.  Some algae can made things look more natural, to me anyway. 

Out of interest, does that mean getting the tooth brush out before final shots when entering the ADA comp?  

Sam


----------



## George Farmer (9 Mar 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Out of interest, does that mean getting the tooth brush out before final shots when entering the ADA comp?
> 
> Sam



Entirely up to you...


----------



## Moss Man (9 Mar 2008)

Those are brilliant pics.

The fine detail you have in your tank, makes it so very natural.


----------



## Moss Man (9 Mar 2008)

> Some algae can made things look more natural, to me anyway.



I agree, surely some algae can look like lichen on mountain rocks, you dont get many rocks in nature which are surrounded by plants but with no life directly on them.


----------



## beeky (10 Mar 2008)

A bit off topic, but has anyone tried tieing cladaphora onto wood/rocks?

I have a little clump of wooly green algae on some wood and I really like it, but it doesn't seem to grow


----------



## Dave Spencer (12 Mar 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Update -



The orangy red from the Rotala rotundifolia and Ember tetras are a little touch of quality to break up the mass of healthy green. I love the restraint.

How many Embers do you have, George?

Dave.


----------



## George Farmer (12 Mar 2008)

Thanks, Dave.  I've never liked too much red.

I have 20 Embers.


----------



## TDI-line (12 Mar 2008)

Superb pics as usual George.


----------



## George Farmer (12 Mar 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> Superb pics as usual George.



Thanks, Dan.

If anyone has been following my PFK blogs, then please feel free to comment on this tank in my final blog in the series. 

There's been a dozen or so altogether.  It's almost emotional...

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... blogid=166


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## lstratton (14 Mar 2008)

Looks brilliant.  Just wanted to ask though, I remember reading on one of your blogs that you had placed the filter inlet (or was it outlet) over your CO2 diffuser.  I'm guessing that this is to help spread it evenly around the tank, but I was just wondering if the CO2 would have an effect on any parts of the filter (that is if you placed the inlet over the diffuser)?


----------



## Aeropars (17 Mar 2008)

George,

What's your water perameters? I tried Blyxa a while back and it just disentigrated but you seem to have it nailed! I'm not that far away from you in Leicester so wondered how your water differed? I assume it was tap water and not RO?

Finally, is that Blyxa from tropica? I could only get it from Greenline. I popped in to Birstall garden center but they coudlnt get it when they tried.

Lee


----------



## George Farmer (17 Mar 2008)

lstratton said:
			
		

> Looks brilliant.  Just wanted to ask though, I remember reading on one of your blogs that you had placed the filter inlet (or was it outlet) over your CO2 diffuser.  I'm guessing that this is to help spread it evenly around the tank, but I was just wondering if the CO2 would have an effect on any parts of the filter (that is if you placed the inlet over the diffuser)?



Towards the end I had CO2 into the filter.  It worked great.  I think it works better from a microbubble diffuser into inlet rather than full size bubbles, as it dissolves easier with less chance of cavitation.



			
				Aeropars said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> What's your water perameters? I tried Blyxa a while back and it just disentigrated but you seem to have it nailed! I'm not that far away from you in Leicester so wondered how your water differed? I assume it was tap water and not RO?
> 
> ...



100% tap. Approx KH 7, GH 14.  NO3 20ppm and PO4 5ppm from tap, temp 25C, CO2 approx 30ppm.  I never tested the water from this set up though, except 4dKH CO2 dropper.

Tropica don't produce Blyxa, as far as I'm aware.  A fellow UKAPS member gave me this a few months ago.


----------



## ceg4048 (18 Mar 2008)

Aeropars said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> What's your water perameters? I tried Blyxa a while back and it just disentigrated but you seem to have it nailed! I'm not that far away from you in Leicester so wondered how your water differed? I assume it was tap water and not RO?
> 
> ...



Available data indicates that Blyxa disintegration is strongly correlated to poor CO2 and/or poor Nitrogen. Water parameters appear to have little to no effect. Greenline seems to be the best local source.

Cheers,


----------



## Aeropars (18 Mar 2008)

Interesting... I think I'll give it another go then.

Greenline gave me offcuts which didnt have roots so i put it down to that why it died off.


----------



## Dan Crawford (25 Apr 2008)

kipper said:
			
		

> very nice mr farmer planter taught you well


Well what a peculiar comment Kipper, i think we will all agree that in a hobby like this it is inevitable that you will pick up ideas and experiences off of each other but to suggest that George "learned" from Planter is a weird one to say the least. Thats not to say that George couldn't learn from Planter. Is there a joke in there somewhere that i might have missed? is so then sorry but that does seem like and really strange thing to say....


----------



## planter (26 Apr 2008)

OMG   Kipper you wait till I see you!! 

No offence George just a little dig at me from a certain Chelsea supporter whom I happen to know quite well .....
A man Utd win today will put kipper in his place! Lol 

I may live to regret introducing kipper to the site   

COME ON MAN U


----------



## planter (26 Apr 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> kipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dont worry Dan kippers a strange kinda guy


----------



## George Farmer (26 Apr 2008)

Meanwhile, back to this journal...

I've decided not to enter this into the ADA so I can show off some final shots soon.


----------



## aaronnorth (26 Apr 2008)

I'm surprised, i think it would of done well in the competition, which one are you entering?


----------



## George Farmer (26 Apr 2008)

Probably my current 60cm.  I think it's my best so far on a few levels.


----------



## aaronnorth (26 Apr 2008)

Is that the one for PFK?


----------



## George Farmer (26 Apr 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Is that the one for PFK?



Yes.  It's being growing in for 7 weeks now and I've made a few, but significant changes.  Give it another 4 weeks or so and it'll be ready for the ADA contest deadline...

Dan and Jeremy have seen some recent preview shots.


----------



## Dan Crawford (26 Apr 2008)

the 60cm is the business!  
Gotta be happy with having a choice of which tank to enter.


----------



## George Farmer (14 May 2008)

nano said:
			
		

> Hi George nice looking set up you have there. I was wondering if you could tell me how you got the title EXPERT?  Is there some sort of test or exam that we can take to get qualifactions for this wonderfull hobby?  Or is this title given to you by the amount of years of experience that you have?


Thanks.

I was given the title, 'expert', by PFK a couple of years ago.  

I don't really consider myself an expert, more an enthusiast who is lucky enough to be able to contribute to the hobby in the many ways I try to do.


----------



## TDI-line (15 May 2008)

You so modest George.


----------



## beeky (15 May 2008)

Any chance of a full tank shot now it's not going into the ADA comp or is still under wraps because of Tropica's secret plant? I'm still waiting for their newsletter.


----------



## George Farmer (15 May 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> Any chance of a full tank shot now it's not going into the ADA comp or is still under wraps because of Tropica's secret plant? I'm still waiting for their newsletter.



We have to wait for the Tropica Newsletter I'm afraid - sometime early June I think.

BTW I've tidied up the last few posts as they were irrelevant to my Journal.


----------



## REDSTEVEO (11 Jun 2008)

George,

I don't suppose you or anyone out there has any suggestions on how a light like the one you have above the tank could be fitted to a Trigon 190 corner tank?

Cheers,

Steve.

ps Expert  yes I agree you are very modest


----------



## milla (11 Jun 2008)

> I don't suppose you or anyone out there has any suggestions on how a light like the one you have above the tank could be fitted to a Trigon 190 corner tank?



Hanging over the tank on wires.  Most Luminaires come with hanging kits. 
Or can be purchased separately like : 

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=839


----------



## alexandre (11 Jun 2008)

Hi George,

Some how, I missed this thread before. Congratulation, especially considering the depth of your tank. You done a really good job, very nice.


----------



## REDSTEVEO (12 Jun 2008)

milla said:
			
		

> > I don't suppose you or anyone out there has any suggestions on how a light like the one you have above the tank could be fitted to a Trigon 190 corner tank?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Milla,

I was hoping to avoid the hanging from the ceiling method because the plaster of our ceilings is not thick enough or strong enough to support the weight. The last time I did this with my other tank I had to take the carpets up in the bedroom above the tank, lift the floorboards, drill through the ceiling and fit a straight bar under the floorboards to suspend the wires from.  :? Not much fun and I dont fancy having to do something like that again in the other bedroom above where the tank is now. Any other suggestions? :idea: 

Cheers,

Steve


----------



## LondonDragon (12 Jun 2008)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> Any other suggestions? :idea:


Shelve brackets on the wall and then hang the cord from that  There are some nice looking one in brass finish that could do the trick


----------



## REDSTEVEO (15 Jun 2008)

Shelf brackets 8) I think you might have to draw me a picture I'm crap at DIY  

Good suggestion though :idea:  You have got me thinking now.

Cheers,


Steve.


----------



## LondonDragon (16 Jun 2008)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> Shelf brackets 8) I think you might have to draw me a picture I'm crap at DIY
> Good suggestion though :idea:  You have got me thinking now.
> Cheers,
> Steve.



All you have to do is get one that sticks out enough for the position of the lights, there are a lot of sizes available, something like this:





















Just some examples, there are so many options you just have to measure how much they must come foward and then go to a few stores and have a look at whats available.


----------



## REDSTEVEO (16 Jun 2008)

Thanks,

I like the look of the first picture, where did you see that?

Cheers,

Steve


----------



## LondonDragon (17 Jun 2008)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> Thanks,
> I like the look of the first picture, where did you see that?
> Cheers,
> Steve


It was on google, its just examples, go to your local stores, B&Q etc.. and you will see loads. just a question of measuring how much you need them to stick out, you can even make them a selve for extra store on top


----------



## JamesC (17 Jun 2008)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> I like the look of the first picture, where did you see that?


A quick look at the first picture's properties reveals the originating website - http://www.builderdepot.com/browse.ihtml?step=5&pid=192633&prodstoreid=2473 

James


----------



## REDSTEVEO (17 Jun 2008)

Wow how do people do stuff like that :? 

Then I realised....... 8) right clickon the picture, properties and Voila  

Im catching on....

Cheers

Steve.

ps I'm thinking of giving it a go!!


----------

