# Reborn



## Fábio (26 Nov 2018)

Hello
This is my new aquarium.
After being away from the world of aquariums due to having been operated on the eyes I returned to another assembly.
This aquarium will not be for contest.
It will be to keep at home, calmly and without stress.
Try to do things as slowly as possible and patience.
At the moment I have some fish in another aquarium and I will only add the Otos 1 week later and the camanoes amano 2 to 3 weeks for the soil to compact a little more.
I hope you like it = D


Setup:



*Aquarium*
90x45x45cm

*Filter*
Eheim professional 4+350

*Heater*
Eheim jager 200W

*CO2*
pressurizado - 4b/s

*CO2*
Neo 

*Lights*
Twinstar 900SP - a 60% in 1º week ( increasing 10% each week until reaching 100%)

*Substract*
Équo
3 bags NEO SOil Plants

*Hardscape*
Ryuoh Stone 35Kg +/-

*Plants*
ROTALA BONSAI
ALTERNANTHERA REINECKII MINI
MICRANTHEMUM MONTE CARLO
ELEOCHARIS ACICULARIS MINI
ROTALA WALLICHII
ROTALA SP. GREEN
ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA
Rotala 'Vietnam
STAUROGYNE REPENS
Anubias Pangolino
ANUBIA NANA
ANUBIA
Bucephalandra deep purple/ RED E GREEN
HYGROPHILA PINNATIFIDA
CRYPTO PARVA
CRYPTO UNDULATA




*Fishes*

9 - Otocinclus Affinis

18  - Hemigrammus Erythrozonus

2 - couple Rams


*Invertebrates*


9 - Caridina Multidentata - Japonica

* 2 - Neritina Pulligera*

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## alto (26 Nov 2018)

Lovely tank 

How long since you planted?


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## Fábio (26 Nov 2018)

Hi alto.

This aquarium have only 1day old =D


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## Fábio (3 Dec 2018)

hi

I have a problem with monte carlo and eleocharis.
They are melting. but I have co2 and light.
I increased to 70% light and lowered the light 2cm. before it was 20cm.
CO2 is at 4 bubbles/s and photoperiod is already at 8h.
Leaves are transparent or yellow. eleocharis is white and yellow.
The monte carlo is emerged and may be some form of adaptation but the eleocharis is in-vitro so I do not know what can be.
Maybe potassium and micros?
The aquarium has just over a week with NeoSoil substrate.
So I do not think he miss some macros.
Should I dose Step1 and K of the ADA?

Thank you


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## Konsa (3 Dec 2018)

Hi
Back in the day I had similar issue with HC and eleocharis in a new setup with ADA amasonia with ADA additives plus step1 and Brighty K from ADA as fertilisers .Plants were melting roots first going mushy towards the tips in few days.
I just put an airstone at night and the melt stopped straight away .Probably sth to do with lack of bacteria and micro flora in substrate plus lack of oxygen as back in the day was belived that there should be zero surface agitation to preserve CO2 in water.The 1-2 grow plants are a bit more fragile than the normal potted ones as they are much younger plants with less reserves in them.
I doubt it is nutrient related.
Regards Konsa


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## Fábio (3 Dec 2018)

Hi konsa

thanks. i dont have much agitation on surface because i want prevent CO2 so maybe is this. i need oxynate the water a little more.
At night I raise the filter output.
Would it be wise to put potassium for a better assimilation of nutrients? ADA K? maybe 4 pumps.
Rotalas are great but monte carlo and eleocharis dont.
The lack of nutrient really can not be. At least macro nutrients. and micros? Do not fertilize?
Even with just potassium?

Thank you


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## Konsa (3 Dec 2018)

Hi
I am not familiar with the Neo soil nutrient content.Your plants are still adjusting .Plants are making their own food via photosynthesis the fertiliser is just suplement that helps not food.As I said I dont think is nutrient related  but for your own peace of mind dose away.ADA fertiliser system is quite lean so dose according their instructions if U have bought the ferts already.The main thing is to get the various bacteria gowing in substrate and for that U need good O2 levels .
In my tank the only plants out of 15 species that were effected were the two carpeting ones all others were very good.
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke (3 Dec 2018)

If it were me I'd have eased that photo period down rather than up at this point. Give the plants chance to settle in to their new environment. Maybe went a bit high to early?


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## Fábio (3 Dec 2018)

hi I'm doing what the logist told me. Do not fertilize and in the 2nd week increase light for 8h and water changes every 2 days. But I've lost the bonsai tree and Monte Carlo and eleocharis go the same way. I know the aquarium smells of macro nutrients. But maybe Step1 and K can help improve the plants. I already have the fertilizers from the old plant. Better to use or not? 
 Thank you


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## AverageWhiteBloke (3 Dec 2018)

I've been trying to find your substrate but can't find anything other than something by the same name which goes under the gravel. Can't tell if that releases nutrients. What else do you dose? Generally speaking if you increase the light you increase the demand for fertiliser so if you have a fertiliser issue increasing the light won't help.

The plants are still fairly new as well so not fully settled in, usually plants melting is a co2 issue especially if they were tissue culture. Either way reducing the lighting will take the pressure off the plants until you sort out what the issue is.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Fábio (3 Dec 2018)

Here is the substrate link: 
 http://aquario.co.kr/en-goods-compactsoilplants.php?ckattempt=1 

So the solution would be to reduce the photoperiod to 7h until the plants adapt themselves right? Meanwhile I can go fertilizing with Step1 and K to help in the right development? 

Remembering that it is not lacking in macros and the micros are just dosing to give a boost. Right?
 Or just cut down the photoperiod and not fertilize?


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## Fábio (3 Dec 2018)

and the water changes I keep every 2 days?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (3 Dec 2018)

It's hard to tell right now my friend, I managed to find the substrate although that link isn't working for me. Is this it? http://www.aquario.co.kr/en-goods-compactsoilplants.php 

From what I can make out there it contains "no fertiliser" but not sure if it has some ammonia. It seems to be saying that it's very absorbent so will absorb nutrients from the water column and also act as a home for bacteria. 

I'm also not too familiar with ADA products but my understanding is that step 1 is just trace elements so so far unless someone with more knowledge of this wants to jump in I can't see where your macros are coming from.

I would say you need to look at some ferts that contain all the traces, magnesium, nitrate, phosphate and potassium. Either way until you get some clarity and bottom this out I would get the light back to 6.5 hours for now or 7 and raise the height. I suspect the plants might not have any food right now so pushing up with the light will make the situation worse.

What other ferts do you have? Do you have other ADA ferts as well as step one?

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

I have all ferts from ADA, Step2,Bringhty K, Step1, green brighty special lights,green brighty special shadows and eca.
Wednesday I get the Kno3, PO4 and PH tests. I need to know some parameters of this aquarium.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

I think the issue may be that ADA nutrients are quite lean or mostly nitrate and phosphate free , the nutrients are mainly in the ADA soil which you aren't using. As well as the lighting advice also start dosing the K and Step1. 

Have you not dosed any fertiliser at all in this tank yet?

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

So far I have not fertilized with anything.
has already reduced the photoperiod to 6.5h. So, better start fertilizing with Step1 and K right?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Definitely buddy. I've never really looked into ADA ferts because they've always been outside my price range so I've had an interesting evening looking into them. 

Looks like...

Step 1 is traces
Step 2 is traces + iron
Step 3 is traces + iron + potassium
Green lights looks like it has it all including n + p
Shade can't really work out what the difference would be!

Me, I think I would just be skipping to Green lights with your setup but I would see if you can find out more about your substrate. I think how ADA works is that the substrate is loaded up with nutrients like Nitrate and Phosphate from the start which is probably why early on you only add traces then adding traces, iron and potassium has they deplete moving on to Green lights which has n and p as this depletes a lot much later on.

If your substrate has no N and P and no fish load adding any through waste with your lighting and injecting co2 it wouldn't take much too start running out early on other than the initial bit added from the cycling process.

Turning down the light and starting to dose is definitely going in the right direction.


Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

The seller said that during the first 3 months it would not be necessary to fertilize because the substrate would give the plants what they need. I just think it's strange the plants are deprived at this point. Okay, it may be an adaptation period, but it's pretty weird.
I need to get the tests on Wednesday. I'm fertilizing with Step1 and K tomorrow.

Lets see.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Maybe the substrate is mate, some substrate comes pre loaded with Ammonia which leaches out when you first start the tank. This helps start the Nitrogen cycle so you can run without fish and as the filter matures converts this to Nitrate so initially the plants have access to some Ammonia and Nitrate so you wouldn't have to dose any to start with. On the website for the soil it says the following.





If you are carrying out water changes every few days and the soil isn't adding anything if your fresh water contains no Nitrates I don't think it would be long before there wasn't anything in there. As well as the plants are still getting established. Plants may have found themselves in a position where they were grown out of water and melting back as they adapt to underwater life, no Nitrogen to speak of and getting pounded with light which is never a good recipe in the first few months.


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

So it is the adaptation of the plants that was already suspected.
And my water probably does not have any great nutrients.
I know the water has PH 7 but the NO3 and the PO4 I think were always zero or close to that.
Would not adding the micros help the development of the plant?

Already the photoperiod is reduced to 6.5h.
Do I really fertilize with micros? Step1 and K?
Or should I wait?

Remembering that I've lost the bonsai tree. to monte carlo and eleocharis then to get quite bad.

The other stem plants are good and growing.

What is the possibility that the stem plants are consuming the few nutrients that my water has and not leaving it to other plants?

Yesterday when I laid out the Step1 and K (5pumps) I saw the monte carlo to do perling and the stem plants and anubias as well.

So I do not know what to do.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Fábio said:


> Yesterday when I laid out the Step1 and K (5pumps) I saw the monte carlo to do perling and the stem plants and anubias as well.





Fábio said:


> I know the water has PH 7 but the NO3 and the PO4 I think were always zero or close to that.



Couple of clues there I think buddy. Can't remember it off the top of my head but there's a law with plants. Plants will need All the traces, potassium, magnesium, Nitrate and Phosphate. Take any one of these away and it deesn't really matter what else you are dosing. Soon as one is missing the plant will fail and show deficiency as it needs them all for photosynthesis. I don't think there's any stage in the plants life when it doesn't need all of them regardless of what stage your tank is at.

ADA supply these through the substrate then compliment the others through the stuff in the bottles. Right now I don't think you are giving them anything so I would go ahead and get on with the dosing and make sure you are providing all of the above. Once you provide all of the above there's only co2 and flow left to worry about. Not sure what your fear of adding them is right now, obviously the plants are lacking something and not adding anything is going to cause more problems than it's going to solve.

The worst thing you can do right now is nothing at all.


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Fábio said:


> The seller said that during the first 3 months it would not be necessary to fertilize because the substrate would give the plants what they need. I just think it's strange the plants are deprived at this point. Okay, it may be an adaptation period, but it's pretty weird.
> I need to get the tests on Wednesday. I'm fertilizing with Step1 and K tomorrow.
> 
> Lets see.


Hi
As I said before I have been in your situation  and tbh I had exactly the same thoughts as U have atm.Nutrients ,fertilisers....posting on different forums looking for answer
In new tank there are complex microbal colonies that need to establish and various chemical processes that will take place.In order that to happen it takes a little time and good oxygen levels.Its good that U change water frequently.Keep doing that clean the dead bits and make sure U have good oxygen levels.I have used the ada fertiliser system too when I had the problem along with Tropica specialised at full dose ( macros)that didn't make any difference  what so ever to the melting so I stopped the Tropica..When plants are having nutrient deficiencies they just dont melt with that speed unless is CO2 shock.If is nutrient related it will show in the other fast growing stems at a much faster rate.
I will start dosing the Step1 and brighty K as U plan even trow 1/2 the dose of the special lights (Maros) if U wish it wont hurt anything than your wallet.That is for your own peace of mind. 
I have started quite a few tanks with sand lately.No ammonia in it to start the cycle just plants and a little ferts now and then sometimes even no ferts and things are happening for me.Its not the first time that I see carpeting plants strugling in new tank.I bet U any money if U give it 4-6 weeks and try them again when your cycle is working and there is loads bacteria development in the substrate you will have no issues with them.I dont have the scientific mind and background to explain this better Im affraid.I just know that my melt stopped in 24h after adding the airstone and from few strands of HC left out of 4 pots I got a nice thick carpet in few weeks.
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Just to add, if you'd used ADA substrate then we would be having a different conversation right now. ADA have a holistic approach so you buy all their stuff to compliment each other but without the substrate there's a major part of their approach missing. You can of course buy all the above in one bottle but that's another story.


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

I will continue to dose Step1 and K.
Tomorrow I already have the PH, KNO3 and PO4 tests. So I take my doubts about my water and the aquarium water.
I made a 60% water change yesterday. and tomorrow I will have to do another one, so before I do the TPA I will do the tests to certify the nutrients.

Because all the material that the aquarium has was to be much better CO2 and Light are not lacking in this aquarium. So what can be is lack of nutrients and how plants are in adaptation can not recover because they have no nutrients for this. Then they melt and die.

Thank you buddy


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

I mean, I'm going to use the fertilizers I have here, and when I'm done, I'm going to use Seachem Advance or use the powders. But for that I'm going to need the tests.


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Hi
Why dont U trow few pics of your tank just to see what is exactly going on.Dont be shy)
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Konsa said:


> your cycle is working and there is loads bacteria development in the substrate you will have no issues with them.I dont have the scientific mind and background to explain this better Im affraid



@dw1305  touched on this earlier in a different post mate, I think you were there? Which may explain what you're talking about...



> In the substrate you can get reducing conditions, under which the iron will become available again as ferrous (Fe++) ions. For this iron to be plant available we really need the Fe++ ions to be in the fluctuating zones of REDOX around the root rhizosphere, where uptake may be dependent on the interaction between the plant and the substrate microbiota.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Fábio said:


> or use the powders. But for that I'm going to need the tests.



Do that, apart from you need the tests bit. Once you've used up your ADA stuff mix the salts at the recommended EI values and either dose the top end and work back until you see a negative impact or start at somewhere in between the lower end and work up with the dose if you see problems. Just don't turn that light up until things have settled


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Hi 
Yes Darrels posts though me loads about plants and that running a planted tank is not only pounding fertilisers and CO2 in.
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Konsa said:


> Yes Darrels posts though me loads about plants and that running a planted tank is not only pounding fertilisers and CO2 in.



Amen brother.


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

Yes, I'll do just that. I think that if I postpone things much more, it is very probable that I will lose most of the plants.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Keep the co2 right and good flow. While the plants adapt and you have no fish you can crank it up. Fast growing stems will suck the co2 out the water under high lighting and right now they need as much co2 as they can get their hands on down at that carpet. The ferts are the easy bit although it doesn't feel like it right now. You have everything you need though to turn that around


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## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Dec 2018)

Good thing about that substrate is it seems to have a high CEC value so any excess nutrients will soak up in there for later use when the plant roots need it.


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

CEC?


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Hi Fabio
I found few pics of my tank I am talking about.Just to see how bad it was and how it went.Hope it will hepl U so not to stress too much obout yours.Its 3-4 weeks between bad and good pics.


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Fábio said:


> CEC?


Hi
CEC is Cation Exchange Capacity  or the ability to absorb and store ions(  nutrients )
Regards Konsa


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## Fábio (4 Dec 2018)

Some pics:
I will fert with Step1 and K for now. 6pumps and wait a little more.


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2018)

Hi
It is not ideal but I dont really see anything dramatic going on.Let the plants establish for few weeks without changing too many things(light especially) all the time and keep changing water to keep algae at bay.
Keep the updates comming.
Regards Konsa


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## Fábio (9 Dec 2018)

Hi all

I will wait for start fert. but tell me.
This is correct?


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## Konsa (9 Dec 2018)

Hi Fabio
Its not correct my friend.
The Fe(iron) is micro so need to be separate from the Macros ((N,P,Kand Mg)
If U want all in one solution can make James DIY TPN+ 3(without urea )
From here:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm
Regards Konsa


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## Fábio (9 Dec 2018)

Hi Konsa

I know. i just want to know if dose with right?
Because i will fert NO3 Po4 mag in same day and Micros the next day.
Grams and ml is correct?

I want something like this:

NO3 - 1ml = 1ppm
Po4 - 1ml = 0.5 ppm

In bottle 500ml for my aquarium.
I'll make the fertilizers all separate. one for NO3, one for PO4, one for MAg and one for micros.
Maybe i'll make 1 for KCL but NO3 and Po4 have potassium.


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## Fábio (9 Dec 2018)

New photos =D


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## Fábio (21 Dec 2018)

Hi 
Just for a update. Hope you like it. =D


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## Fábio (21 Dec 2018)

If anyone can help me.

I have the skimmer in right corner... its ok?
Or i can put it in left corner, facing the right side?

Thanks


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## Harry H (21 Dec 2018)

I have pretty much same setup, my skimmer is on LH side back corner, its flow going to RH corner. My outflow lily pipe is same position as yours, RH front corner, flow going to LH corner, trying to create a clockwise flow in tank.


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## Fábio (22 Dec 2018)

Thanks bud.
I will try =D


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