# Liquid Co2 tanks...



## michj (26 Dec 2012)

Hi all and merry Christmas,
I wondered how many of you have currently got a set up using one of the many liquid Co2 products out there? and if so how did you (or did you not) overcome any problems with plants that are less tolerant of
it?
Is liquid Co2 suitable to use until such time as a FE system can be set up or would switching between the two in your opinion cause problems?
I am slightly reluctant to use the liquid having read on here about its toxicity, but having never given my plants the right conditions (sand substrate, 38wt T8's and only tablet ferts at roots) I need to get my finger out in order to get them flourishing.
I guess an FE system would work out cheaper in the long run for a 75  gal tank?

many thanks
michael


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## awood85 (26 Dec 2012)

I've been using easy carbo for about 4 months, all my fish, shrimp and plants seem fine with me using it at the highest recommended dosage. 

I've just run out and not managed to get any more for the last week or so and I haven't seen any noticeable problems with my plants but I have noticed more algae build up on the glass. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## foxfish (26 Dec 2012)

75 gallon tank will burn 2 kg fire extinguishers every 2-3 months so using a carbon supplement would definitely not be economical!
 I would look into 5 kg cylinders or bigger to be honest.


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## michj (26 Dec 2012)

Thanks for the replies, I did think of perhaps using the liquid for a  30ltr that i am going to set up which i guess would be fairly economical. Awood85 what is youre growth like?
Thanks Foxfish, I will hunt around localy and check what the refill prices are like, would there be a problem using the liquid until I can get an FE system up and running or best just to continue as I have done so i dont lose my vallis. or is there a way around this? are the various brands any less damaging?

michael


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Dec 2012)

Not sure about the vallis. Some people do say that it causes problems with certain plants but I can't say I have noticed. Possibly moss which never really does that well in my tank. That's maybe not down to the LC though. I use both in my tank, I inject co2 as well as dose LC as a belt and braces strategy. Using th LC takes up any errors with co2 as well as slowing down algae growth. For that size tank co2 would be better and the knowledgeable people in here say that gas is better than liquid for plants. Something to do with the process of how the plant converts from what I understand.
There is no problem using LC and in fact a lot of people use it who don't want to try gas. Usually it is recommended dosing higher than the manu suggests but also bear in mind that it can also be toxic to certain fish when you start getting over the 2x reco dose.
As for human safety, it is claimed that it can cause breathing problems with long term use. Handle it safely and don't try and inhale the stuff and keep in a airtight container.
I don't think anyone has noted any difference in the brands being more or less harmful to plants because it is in face pretty much the same product under a different label. If costs are an issue you could also diy some. Instructions are available in this forum.  Or just get some from the sponsors and play it safe.


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## michj (26 Dec 2012)

Hi Average, does lc show on the co2 indicator the same as gas? I did worry about the harmfulness of the lc, if the plants are absorbing the chemical used does this then mean that they will contain a high concentration and become toxic to anything that nibbles on them? I may have this completely wrong but I did wonder.
I was hoping to use vallis as a curtain at the back, but Im not too sure yet, and moss on some of the rock mounds I hope to create.
I guess lc seems more appealing becaus of its ease of use, but as Foxfish pointed out it will make it so much more expensive,will I have to make adjustments for not having such a high light system?

thanks for the replies

michael


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## awood85 (26 Dec 2012)

Hey Michael, my growth is reasonable but I don't have any high co2 demanding plants or high light levels (40w t8s over 33 gallons) although saying that the growth rate definitely improved once I added lc and ferts. I choose lc over gas as it's just so easy to use for a beginner like me. 

With the light levels you have I think it would act more as an algaecide with some plant benefit, I may be wrong on that but your not going to require as much co2 as a high light tank. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## AverageWhiteBloke (26 Dec 2012)

No mate LC will not affect the results on a co2 indicator. That measure ph and dissolved gas and LC affects neither. I'm no expert but there is a chemical used in LC which the plants can use as a carbon source substitute for co2 gas as well a having anti biocide properties enough to slow down and even kill algae. Diy'ing is a cheaper option on bigger tanks. The chemical in LC gluterhyde (probably spelt wrong)  Can be bought online which is concentrated. You can mix this with cooled boiled water at the correct dilution. Some people here including myself have been trying this method for a while and thus far no negative reports.
If you're lighting is not too high you could just use the standard dose and see how it pans out. Like mentioned though gas is a more effective although complicated way to get right which the plants have to do less work to assimilate and generally gets best results from your plants.


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## michj (26 Dec 2012)

Hi
I did read about the diy lc but will wait until I know what im doing before I go too far down that road, but i may well stick to lc for the 30 ltr.
Because of the low light im guessing I would need less gas? if so it might make it more affordable to build a FE system?

thanks for all your help so far

michael


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## Ravenswing (26 Dec 2012)

Aijaa.com - 11488337

^Daily EC double dosed. I used to have pressurized Co2-systems in three tanks, but the gas is so expensive here and I had to pump it that much with huge amount of light that its muchmuch cheaper now to dose EC daily (double dose) for four tanks. Of course I came down with lights, from MHs and T5s to T8s and leds. I have used EC with valls, too. It works just fine when starting slightly and not dosing near it. Nowadays nearly all plants are basic stuff but growth is nice in colours and rate so Im happy. Algae? Nowhere! I run with same methods with all our tanks.


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## michj (29 Dec 2012)

Ravenswing said:


> Aijaa.com - 11488337
> 
> ^Daily EC double dosed. I used to have pressurized Co2-systems in three tanks, but the gas is so expensive here and I had to pump it that much with huge amount of light that its muchmuch cheaper now to dose EC daily (double dose) for four tanks. Of course I came down with lights, from MHs and T5s to T8s and leds. I have used EC with valls, too. It works just fine when starting slightly and not dosing near it. Nowadays nearly all plants are basic stuff but growth is nice in colours and rate so Im happy. Algae? Nowhere! I run with same methods with all our tanks.


 
You must get through serious amounts of LC, do you just use branded LC or make up your own? you mention the vallis doing well what dose did you start off with to achieve this?
Is it a good idea to perhaps mix the LC in a jug with some tank water before adding?
Also would I need to double dose with T8 lighting?
On a different note has anyone had any experience using API Leaf Zone, I am going to try and get some TNC but have a bottle of the API and wondered if it would be any good?

Thanks
Michael


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Dec 2012)

> Is it a good idea to perhaps mix the LC in a jug with some tank water before adding?
> Also would I need to double dose with T8 lighting?
> On a different note has anyone had any experience using API Leaf Zone, I am going to try and get some TNC but have a bottle of the API and wondered if it would be any good?


 
No need for the jug just put it in the tank. The lighting depends more on watt per gall not exact science though. It is generally considered that anything around 2watts per gall or above is classed as medium to high and would benefit from a double dose of LC. API leaf Zone is just the traces pre-mixed in a bottle so should be fine.


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## stu_ (29 Dec 2012)

i use EasyCarbo & an all in one fert daily, and get decent, healthy growth.
1ml EC per 50L.This can be doubled depending on the plant mass.
eg. my Dutch influenced 60L has lots of stems and i dose 2.5-3ml per day.It doesn't bother the Oto's or Amano shrimp.
Personally i haven't had issues using it with Vallis, but others sometimes seem to.
The carbon only has a short life (12hrs or so), hence using every day.


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## michj (29 Dec 2012)

Thanks again for the help, its very much appreciated.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Dec 2012)

Bottle I have here says 1mL per 50 ltrs upto Max of 2ml so I guess 2ml would be classed as a double dose


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## michj (29 Dec 2012)

Do you think it would be wise to start off with half the recommended dose and then increase to double over weeks/days? or would I just be wasting LC by doing this, I just wondered if I introduced it gradually it might be less of a shock (if that makes sense)?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Dec 2012)

If you're going to double dose then just start with a normal dose for a week then start on the double. It may give your fish time to get used to it and not as much a shock.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (30 Dec 2012)

Whats your plant mass like? You wont need to double dose with low loads initially. If you do, expect fauna problems.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (30 Dec 2012)

Like whitey says, no need to push the boundaries. If you have no co2 related algae or plant problems just stick to normal dosing.


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