# Reborn



## viktorlantos (23 Sep 2012)

This one is also probably missing from the journal section.

The past story was that i had an Asian Spirit scape / which is still in contest at IAPLC 2012   






It was a nice but pretty challenging scape to keep it nice on a long term. Also with a baby girl and an aquascaping gallery i wanted some minimal maintenance tank for the next 6 months or so.

After removed all the plants, wood pieces. Added in some new stones and a bag of freesh Amazonia in the back





Yes i kept the rocks with Algae did not brushed it. I have that's why i am paying for CO2 to do the job   
Nah joking, but i thought in a well balanced tank these algae will go away in the first few weeks.

And i was right. After 2.5 weeks the tank looked like this. Nothing happened just changed the water after the planting





And this is where we are today (well last weekend   )





I only had to trimming once in this timeframe. Sorry for the algae glass stuff, but this shot was before the maintenance work.

I am using RO water only for water changes. 125 liters per week. The water hardness is kicking back after 4 days so that's the only challenging part in this scape. But otherwise a lovely background in our living room. And my doughter love it   





I also did a video last weekend on this tank. Not bad after 9 weeks with some challenging stuff.



The thing that i like in this scape that i fully reused the base of the previous scape. Just changed the plants and i have a completely new aquarium which not need maintenance.

Thanks for watching guys. Your comments are welcome


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## foxfish (23 Sep 2012)

Hi Victor, lovely tank.
You seem to have two lily pipes? What is the brown orange object in the right corner?


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## viktorlantos (23 Sep 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Hi Victor, lovely tank.
> You seem to have two lily pipes? What is the brown orange object in the right corner?



Yup i have 2 x Eheim Prof 2075 running under this tank one of them push the CO2 with an AM1000 CO2 reactor.
So 2 inlet 2 outlet glass.

The orange stuff is an ADA Softenizer. I am using this Softenizer and another resin in one of the filter to slow down the hardening along the week, but they are not enough for this much stone and water. Forget to remove it by the photo session.

The water hardness is fluctuating a lot. AT water change around TDS 80 ppm 4 days later 280ppm which is very close to our tap water.

Very interesting to see and inspect several things in the life of this aquarium.
The previous scape was lack on flow. Because of that BGA algae was a continous guest there.
Same soils same decor same filter but with the new scape this algae never appeared. So this was purely a flow issue before.

The thing what i mentioned in my other post in another topic a few days ago is the plant stress.
If you only see the last image the plant looks ok. They are green they filled in the scape. However i also see that plants regenerate slowly after trimming. Grows slower. And HC is strugling and not as dense as we usually have in our planted tanks in the gallery.

I am pretty sure the changing hardness put a lot of stress on the plants and i have continous biofilm and scum on the sufrace because of that. 

Still the scape will look pretty nice after a month or so when it reach its final form, but life would be so much easier and the plant quality would be much better with a decor stone which isn't hardening that much.


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## Ady34 (23 Sep 2012)

Hi Victor,
I am using a lot of seiryu stone in my tank and am noticing even within the two day period between water changes (new set up) that the TDS is rising dramatically. You say that TDS varies from 80 at water change to 280 4 days later, how high do you think it would get, would it reach a level and then stabilise or would it just carry on hardening indefinitely? My tap water which i use for water changes is very soft naturally (around 80ppm TDS), I'm just wondering whether to fight it or just buffer my water change water nearer the tank water to reduce the huge fluctuations you talk about which are effecting the growth of your plants? Obviously if it is going to harden to rift valley or marine fish territory then it's a no go, but within reason I could choose fish appropriately.
As a side I noted from another of your recent posts that you use lower temperatures but also suggest that TDS of 120ppm (or was it 140ppm?) optimises plant health, is this why you use ro water and are fighting against the hardness of this tank as opposed to just using your tap water?
Thanks for any thoughts on this
Ady


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## viktorlantos (23 Sep 2012)

I do not know how high it would get, but 280 is already too close to my tapwater 330 which is 14 KH/GH. I would do more water changes but time is limited. Probably with 2 water change within a week would cause a bit less change.

I have like 40-60Kg of Seiryu stone in this setup for 223 L.

I was on tap water before, and even in that time i used similar equipments CO2 injections etc. Seen less problems as the water was stable.

However with this stone it does not matter you go in with harder or softer water as hard water would be even harder.
We know it's a badass stone, but looks soo nice, hard to replace to something else 

Yup in the past 2 years we mainly worked with soft water low temp tanks. And the result is amazing. I know people who are on tap water say they can grow anything and no need soft water, but i am on the opposite side. And it is clearly visible how the same plant looks like in soft and a bit colder water than tap and colder or tap and warmer water. 

All the mosses, stems, carpeting plants enjoys this what we're using. It's not only because of the water quality, but probably they get more light enough CO2 and we're not lazy with maintenance tasks.

I had harder times to keep the water temp at 22-23 at home because of a baby at summer time, but that's what i usually target. The reason why i use minerals to fix TDS because of it easiness. I just check with a TDS Pen and does not matter if it is a seiryi tank or a full soft water tank i get the result right away. Know that i need 1 or more spoon to target 120 approx where we're in safe. Mixing with tap water would be a little harder as i had to measure it for every single tank.

I marked this in another topic before if the TDS is too small there will be problems with algae and because we keep shrimps too there will be molting problems with CRS. 

Anyway these are minor things, but sometimes a lot of these minor things adds the little extra to the success.

I have to add that we're using larger capacity RO unit to save on waste water and produce water quicker. In our store we're using a 130L/hr unit. At home i have a 60L/hr unit. Both with booster pumps and multiple membranes.


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## Antipofish (23 Sep 2012)

Hey Viktor, another awesome scape.  So very simple yet it looks like a vast landscape   What is the brown thing behind the glass intake on the right side of the tank please ?


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## viktorlantos (23 Sep 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Hey Viktor, another awesome scape.  So very simple yet it looks like a vast landscape   What is the brown thing behind the glass intake on the right side of the tank please ?




Cheers   



> The orange stuff is an ADA Softenizer. I am using this Softenizer and another resin in one of the filter to slow down the hardening along the week, but they are not enough for this much stone and water. Forget to remove it by the photo session.



We used it in a smaller tank in our gallery and there it worked well however in this size it's only lowered the hardness in a 180L tank 2-4 degrees. We did not had stones there so maybe this was the reason.


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## taggerz28 (23 Sep 2012)

Gorgeous tank Viktor! You must be very proud!


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## Swee (24 Sep 2012)

Hi, I'm new here, and I'm just discovering the way you're making aquascape, and I feel it awsome!   
In that kind of mountain scape, maybe thiny rocks on the back (and top) of the tank will make an impression of depth (I don't know if the word is correct, I found it in a translater)


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## jack-rythm (7 Oct 2012)

wow...


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## viktorlantos (19 Oct 2012)

Cheers guys.   
I am not posted a while ago. Things are a bit busy around us these days.

However today i had a little time for some maintenance task on this tank and i made a photo at the end of the day.
The tank is 4 month old here. I am not happy with all the plants and their conditions, for example the HC much weaker than we usually have in our gallery, but it's green at least and ran all over the tank   Maybe this type of form fits better to this wild scene.

Will do a trimming sometimes in the following weeks and will shoot the contest photo on this tank too. Allright here it is...


Reborn @4 month by viktorlantos, on Flickr

At the end of the day i spent a few minutes for fun. Originally thought i do a quick montage with a farm or a castle on this scape or something similar, but then i came up with something else..... Ian told me i should post it here as it looks like a scene from a Tim Burton movie   


Reborn - Photoshop fun by viktorlantos, on Flickr

Would not it be fun to have a contest where we would do similar funny scenes from our aquascapes?


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## Ian Holdich (19 Oct 2012)

Love this pic!! 

This is what na is all about.


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## Iain Sutherland (19 Oct 2012)

haha, that picture is great viktor, very clever.


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## tim (20 Oct 2012)

Excellent victor this could be the house frankenweenie was created tim burton movie was spot on


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## jack-rythm (21 Oct 2012)

Ha! Ok victor I'll be happy to add a photoshopped version   give me a few says to decide what tank I'll be using  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Mark Evans (21 Oct 2012)

Damn thats a good image Viktor!

just goes to show how natural the layout is.


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## viktorlantos (21 Oct 2012)

Thank you guys. I had this quick and crazy idea to do something with landscape. Maybe with a cow and a farm or like the above.... Not spent too much time so it was really a few minutes quick montage.

But the montage made me think about that could i do the same on any of my earlier tank? And i have to say nope. It does not mean this tank is any better as the wildness is probably a bit too much for contests or for the standards nowadays. But the montage helps a bit to give back something which had in my mind when i created this hill. It's natural. Uses a few plants only. No straight trimming lines, no visible order on planting. Stones are covered by plants partially, and the different levels on the slope blend the transitions between the front and the back.

It was only for fun, but may will plan my next layout with this in my mind. If i could easily drop the scene to any natural montage theme, then i think i achieved the goal. So my next challenge is this.   

BTW on the bottom right corner Hydrocotyle and Stauro is a real weed   Does not matter how hard i kill this remove the full root sytem, replant the tank and rescape it. They will come back for sure.....    Will remove them before the final shooting.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Oct 2012)

Agree with others Viktor, this is mind blowing. Truly beautiful landscape or Aquascape. 

Print a background exactly the same I say


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## Antipofish (22 Oct 2012)

Awesome imagery Viktor. Looks like something out of a Charles Dickens novel   All you need now is to put a little lake or something at the depression down the bottom of it and have a menacing looking black dog lapping at the water and it would be scary as well as spectacular


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## viktorlantos (29 Nov 2012)

Cheers guys   i did not updated this thread in the past weeks.

Since then i had a massive trimming and the tank grown back in 2 weeks or so.

That's how it looks around these days





I did a short vid too on the center side and played with the fishes a little to simulate kind of a sea movement   



Enjoy


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## viktorlantos (29 Nov 2012)

Oh and another shot 1day before the others. Did not used flash for this


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## Antipofish (29 Nov 2012)

Lovely Viktor !  Great choice of music too   What fish are in there at the moment ?


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## Lunar Jetman (29 Nov 2012)

That's great! I wish I was even a little bit that good!


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## hydrophyte (30 Nov 2012)

That is wonderful Viktor! ...such great depth in that small space.


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## viktorlantos (10 Dec 2012)

Thank you for your feedback.

I had a maintenance work on this tank over the weekend. Plants trimmed, stones brushed. And a 60% water change with RO.

Started to clean up the front but still some work needed. Will shoot a final capture 10 days later when the plants grow back.

Then i may will try some new hardscape element to give a little tweak to this scape. If this turns out well that tweak will make it really unique. If not i still will have a backup photo   This is the last thing before i rescape fully the tank probably.

For Christmas i bought a Profilux set to control the Aquarium meanwhile i am away. So now the CO2 is hooked up with this system i will add in the ferts too later. This is also kind of a study. How much a machine can add as an extra (if there's any) for example with a fluctuating water hardness co2 relations etc. So will keep my eye on this an will report back. This works nicely in our gallery on a shrimp tank, but this time it's an aquascape and my eye will be on that HC to see if that's improove or die off   

Ah and here is the shot. I almost forgot   
Enjoy


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## hydrophyte (10 Dec 2012)

That is splendid Viktor!


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## Antipofish (10 Dec 2012)

Viktor, every time I look at this I feel waves of calm wash over me. It is quite simply AWESOME.


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## toadass (11 Dec 2012)

What plants are in use here...... HC, Eleocharis (is it parvula or tennulus?) are there more than two types?

Looks superb


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## viktorlantos (11 Dec 2012)

hydrophyte said:
			
		

> That is splendid Viktor!



Thank you   



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Viktor, every time I look at this I feel waves of calm wash over me. It is quite simply AWESOME.



Thanks mate  Yeah actually it is too relaxing. Once you have a minimal setup you have the feeling there's something need to change. I am missing the gardening a little on this tank. Only an hour trimming every 3 or 4 weeks.   But on the other side this is pretty cool that it looks ok on a long-term.



			
				toadass said:
			
		

> What plants are in use here...... HC, Eleocharis (is it parvula or tennulus?) are there more than two types?
> 
> Looks superb



Cheers  HC, Eleocharis Parvula, Eleocharis Acicularis on the hill top, Brasiliensis on the left front. The rest just survival from my earlier tank from the soil (hydrocotyle sp and staurogyne) I usually cut these back to the ground.


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## Ady34 (11 Dec 2012)

viktorlantos said:
			
		

>



Hi Victor,
this looks stunning, however i feel it needs one more rock! 
I can only dream of creating a tank as well executed as this but i do have one critique. I have always felt it about this tank, but i feel the grass at the rear which forms the central dip looks a little to perfect and unbroken. One small rock placed above, either left or right...probably to the left of the gap between the two central most rocks in amongst the grass would break this uniformity and transition the two sides of the scape better and would make the tank perfect 
I hope you dont see my observation as a negative, its a truly inspiring scape, but id just like to see that one more little rock literally to only just break that perfect line  
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## viktorlantos (11 Dec 2012)

Cheers Ady,
Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate that. Maybe this is one of the reason why i feel i had to add in something. A tweak to make it really unique. I did not thinked about an additional stone, but thinking about how to bring this scape to another level.

I have 3 things in mind:

- Do a photo from this scape with an exciting background to extend the space. Not something like the turkish style cloudy thing, but something what makes it different from the regular shoot tanks.
- Make a tree which will be on the left slope towards to the center right side. As the scape reminds me of New-Zealand and Walles. So i can imagine this with a balanced tree there which breaks the minimalistic look. i know again a tree... but some scape shout for that because of its natureness.
- Another idea to use the invert space for something. There are multiple possibilities. No floating island, but something which falls down from the surface. Not like avatar, but you get the idea... i know this will kill the HC and Parvula because of the shadow its create, so this maybe just for a final photo only before i dismantle the scape.

A couple things in my mind, but before i do something - if i do - i need to make a final capture form the current from if i mess it up


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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

Can I ask how long ur carpet took to fill out? This is absolutely beautiful Mate  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## jojouk (16 Dec 2012)

Wow, seriously talented


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## viktorlantos (17 Dec 2012)

jack-rythm said:


> Can I ask how long ur carpet took to fill out? This is absolutely beautiful Mate
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



Taken a bit more like 4 month or so, because of the changing water hardness. This put a bit of stress to the plants.


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## jack-rythm (24 Dec 2012)

amazing


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## Timms2011 (24 Dec 2012)

Amazing pictures!


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## viktorlantos (25 Feb 2013)

Wow it's good that the new forum search function working properly, otherwise i would not find my journal because of the increased activity nowadays 

Well the tank is 8 month old now. Not too much thing happened in the past 2 months. Did not had much time to refine or upgrade the scape. So i just kept it going.
Tuned out i run out of phosphate and i had to dose it to do better. So now i am adding that daily or every 2 days.

I added in a GHL Profilux computer with pH control since christmas. And the CO2 reactor managed by the Profilux now.
Originally i set the pH to 6.5 and reduced a buit the lighting. 7-5 hours per tubes pair. I was tired to clean the rocks every 2 weeks and remove the algae.
This worked well, had less issues and the tank ran better, but the plants not grow that nice and after 2 trimming i had to agree on that i have less and less plants. So tweaked the pH controll again. Now target to 6.4 and the T5 tubes set to 7-7 hours a day. Fertilizers not changed. The goal is to switch the plants again to burnst mode and be in a shape to create the final photo.

I had a trimming session last week, and today i had a little time to make a capture on the tank. Now without any extra lights.

8 months... much easier to maintain than any bushy scape which is good sometimes, but i look for the change.





Oh and i thought this is an interesting stuff to share. Downloaded the last 2 months activities on the pH level from the Profilux. This is how it looks:





A bit of an explanation here. I had the pH target set to 6.5. The CO2 was stopped from 10pm to 10am. Lights was on from 15 to 10pm.
The above chart built based on an hourly data sampling.

The peaks on the bottom shows the water changes. I am missing one other at least, i was lazy around the new year but not that much 
Anyway, since i do a 120 Liter water change with full RO water the pH drops to 6.3 or so. Then there is an interesting stuff on the upper parts.
After every water change the water is softer. And the Seiryu rocks starts to harden up the water daily. You can see the pH level on the top goes up the same way just like the hardness til i do another water change and everything starts again.

I think i had CO2 issues because of that earlier. Issues with plants - raising hardness and large soft water change. And with fishes too. I had a good level of CO2 in the tank but seeing the Amano shrimps or Otocinclus i had sometimes more than i needed.

Since the controller is watching my back, none of the amanos escaped. They work all day just like the otocinclus fishes.

Its not something new this is just an interesting stuff what i experienced in the past 2-3 months.


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## plantbrain (25 Feb 2013)

Victor,
You might think about something coming in from above: Riccia like Water fall.
This would help the trim fetish, and add some unique prespective.
Several water falls with Riccia attached to wood coming in might offer a simple to add interesting idea.

The pH jumping due to the increase in KH can be seen.
I often do not measure KH, I have when I need to be careful or see some evidence of CO2 issues.

So rather than adjusting the pH, I set the CO2 at a constant rate during the light period, but............I adjust the light to match the CO2 concentration increase perfectly.
I  can do that with dimmer controllers, I cannot do that easily with a pH controller that's normally just a single set point.

Since we know light increases, so does CO2 demand in plants, and we know it's a non linear relationship, similar to the increase of CO2 at a steady supply.
This works very well. Trying to stay ahead of the KH increase due to the stones is a PITA.

I'm not sure about the rocks in the scape truthfully. They appear too even in size, something. I'd try something radical myself like you have planned


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## clonitza (25 Feb 2013)

Hi mate, great scape and it will look perfectly balanced without the vertical rock on the left, add some sand patches like on a golf course if you really want a tweak but forget the trees please, they are uber kitchy imho. 
The ph controller is nice but I found out that a drop checker needs to be used 'cause if you use the ph/kh relationship doesn't give you the right amount of CO2, I aim it to be light green and it works fine.

Cheers,
Mike


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## viktorlantos (25 Feb 2013)

Thanks for your comment guys. This is my home tank, and after spending a tons of time in the gallery with the rest and with clients tanks sometimes, when i get home i do not wants to bugfix all the time what is going on  So the basic idea was to hand over the CO2 injection and forget to worry about decreased flow, too low pH, changing hardness etc which plays role in CO2 fluctations and cause extra work on my side  Also wanted to test this out how it plays with a tank where a massive ammount of rock is affecting the water quality. Not sure how much i have there but around 40-50kg i guess. So it's a lot.

I was worried that the controller will cause issues with the HC and will inject less than they needed. But so far so good it is ok.

I do check the DC of course. Now i am waiting for the next month result to see how just a tiny change will affect the plants quality. As i decreased the target pH to 6.4. This small change is clearly not visible in DC, but plants bubbling more. Look forward to see the result after a few weeks.

Thanks for the idea on the sand patches Mike.

Thanks for the Riccia tip Tom. I am more worried to handle that beast and picking out the trimmed parts from the rest of the carpet. So i only go with Riccia when i need extreme challenges


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## Ionut Godea (25 Feb 2013)

I like your aquascape. Looks wild and natural.


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## LondonDragon (25 Feb 2013)

Truly amazing scape Viktor, still looks excellent, how long you going to keep this running? Also out of interesting how deep is the substrate at the back of the tank? Cheers keep up the good work


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## viktorlantos (25 Feb 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Truly amazing scape Viktor, still looks excellent, how long you going to keep this running? Also out of interesting how deep is the substrate at the back of the tank? Cheers keep up the good work


 
Thanks Paulo 
I wanted to redo the tank around december but did not had aqua soil at that time  poor me 
I thought will do a new tank for the IAPLC 2013 but now it is late. Will use the existing ones.

Probably will change this tank in a month or so.

The back substrate is 30cm deep 

These are older photos but you can get the idea how it looks from the back.... massive


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## viktorlantos (25 Feb 2013)

Found this shot. This is how it looked when i set it up.

The front sandy area is filled with aquasoil a bit as the amano shrimps worked all day to hack my work. But seeing the tank 8 months afer, i still have a big slope which is good. Thanks to the stones which help me in that.


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## LondonDragon (25 Feb 2013)

Thanks Viktor, going to rescape one of my tanks and had something like this in mind but its low tech so going to use mosses instead


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## clonitza (26 Feb 2013)

That's a lot of soil there mate


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## charlie (26 Feb 2013)

Great looking tank and journal. Its nice to see your 'home' tank as well as ypur usual gallery tanks. I can appreciate how having to maintain tanks at work you want a less demanding tank at home, yet you still pull off a stunning tank. That was quite a steep gradient at the back and h
Great to see that it survived the life of the scape. Did you use any substrate support / plastic strips or was it just supported by the rocks and root biomass?


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## plantbrain (26 Feb 2013)

Most of the better scapers seem to eyeball cO2, they start with some relative measure of dosing for CO2, then they tweak and adjust slowly from there.

I do the same thing with the pH/Kh chart.
Also, as you depress the pH with CO2 gas, the concentration will increase a lot more(eg, it's non linear) for each 0.2 units of pH.

Say you have a KH of 3 degrees.

At a pH of 7.0 you would have 9 ppm
At a pH of 6.8 you would have 14.3 ppm
At a pH of 6.6 you would have 22.6 ppm
At a pH of 6.4 you would have 35.8 ppm
At a pH of 6.2 you would have 56.8 ppm
At a pH of 6.0 you would have 90 ppm

Differences between each 0.2 pH units:
5.3 ppm
8.3 ppm
13.2 ppm
21 ppm
33.2

So your pH measurement and observations need to be very good when you use more CO2. If you over do things at the higher ppm's, it only takes a little bit of change to dramatically increase the CO2.

This is one reason why many people fail when adding more CO2 and gas their fish instead. If each 0.2 pH units were only 5 ppm difference, then it would be pretty easy to adjust CO2. This is also a good reason to buy a nice CO2 regulator, needle valve etc.
Since many use the drop checkers and there's little differences between the colors and those color changes are at best, 0.2 pH, what does this say at the higher ppm's of CO2? Not much.
I think they are terrible and have caused more issues than they have solved for hobbyists. 

Or if they use colormetric pH measure? Similar.
A good 0.01 accuracy pH meter is likely the best relative measure for CO2 using pH.

I knock my pH down about 1.4 pH units. This is about 47 ppm.
If it went to 1.6, then I'm at 75 ppm's, if I back off just a hair, 0.1 pH units, then I'm about 1.5 pH units, I'm at 59 ppm. 1.3 pH units, 38ppm, 1.2 pH units, about 30 ppm.
And so on..........

Tweaking CO2 is not some simple thing. It's not something to just wing it and assume the drop check has to be correct. 
A good pH meter can help make small tweaks and adjustments.


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## viktorlantos (26 Feb 2013)

Tom, thanks for your thoughts on it. I agree with you of course. Since we're running so many tanks it is not too hard to set an ok level for CO2. I am not saying it is bulletproof, but until fishes and shrimps doing well and plants grows well i am fine. 

By the way do you have any recommendation on a good pH meter? The ones i tried in the past i hated. They were inaccurate and damn slow. This is probably because they were in the 50-80 bucks range. Any useful one for a hobbist?


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## Aquadream (27 Feb 2013)

viktorlantos said:


> Tom, thanks for your thoughts on it. I agree with you of course. Since we're running so many tanks it is not too hard to set an ok level for CO2. I am not saying it is bulletproof, but until fishes and shrimps doing well and plants grows well i am fine.
> 
> By the way do you have any recommendation on a good pH meter? The ones i tried in the past i hated. They were inaccurate and damn slow. This is probably because they were in the 50-80 bucks range. Any useful one for a hobbist?


 Check this out. I use their combine PH, TDS, Cond, Salt and Temp meter. It is really good.
Oakton meters for pH, conductivity, TDS, ORP, DO, temperature, and humidity measurement


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## viktorlantos (27 Feb 2013)

Aquadream said:


> Check this out. I use their combine PH, TDS, Cond, Salt and Temp meter. It is really good.
> Oakton meters for pH, conductivity, TDS, ORP, DO, temperature, and humidity measurement


 
Thanks G.
I used a similar one like this:
Oakton product details
But i found it innaccurate on pH and slow. TDS and EC is good from this type.


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## plantbrain (27 Feb 2013)

viktorlantos said:


> Tom, thanks for your thoughts on it. I agree with you of course. Since we're running so many tanks it is not too hard to set an ok level for CO2. I am not saying it is bulletproof, but until fishes and shrimps doing well and plants grows well i am fine.
> 
> By the way do you have any recommendation on a good pH meter? The ones i tried in the past i hated. They were inaccurate and damn slow. This is probably because they were in the 50-80 bucks range. Any useful one for a hobbist?


 
I have used the Pinpoint American Marine brand, I've spoken with them many years ago, must have been usign the same product for a good 15 years.
I change the probe once calibration drifts too much. I also make sure there's no stray current in the water(electric ballast, pumps, heaters etc), I turn everything off and then wait and see what the pH does. then I turn things on, one by one to check if it does anything to the pH(always depresses pH, never raises IME).

100$ or so. I have a nice Hack HQ40 and the LDO, pH, Conductivity, Redox and I make custom pt tip redox probes for sediment field use, but.......not exactly hobby grade stuff or cost.
I think the Pinpoint is pretty good and easy to use, calibrate. The Oakton is a good meter also, I use the higher range for Conductivity and TDS for research.

My pH drops about 1.40 till about 5-6 hours, in, then drops a bit more to 1.60 for the last 2-3 hours. 
This suggest the plants have had a lot of their fill of CO2 already and most plants will hog CO2 when the lights 1st come on, so lots of CO2 right away is the best approach, then you likely can taper off late in the day. I shut my CO2 off the last 15-30 minute of the light cycle.
Since my light is on a controller dimmer, the start up is well matched with the CO2 and the light intensity. So by the time I'm at 100% full light, my CO2 has been at 40 ppm or so or higher for a good 1 hour.

I also use the animals and plants, and algae as metrics to adjust or make changes to the CO2. You can tell pretty well, and I think many do not bother with ANY testing really once they are good at this.
*But this is hard thing to teach new people.*

If the CO2 adjustments do NOT work, I do some water changes,. trims, clean the filters. If those do not work, I then adjust light.
Still, the pH meter will help a great deal with smaller quantifiable CO2 adjustments and can be moved to tank to tank easily.
At least you have some relative reference and if you can measure the KH well, then you are in okay shape.

All KH errors will error on the side of having LESS CO2 than you think you might have if you use the pH/KH /CO2 table.
It will never have MORE CO2 than you think is actually there, so this error favors the livestock, but also favors people having LESS CO2 than they believe.
So people get algae all the time because they think they have good CO2.

Whereas yourself could look and quickly tell there's something wrong with the CO2. Just by seeing algae, the plants, and the general condition, you can sum up what is wrong pretty fast and then resolve the issue.
Going back _post hoc_ is nice. Because you have a nice tank as a reference. I think that is the only way to test anything in planted tanks frankly.

That's a mean looking slope in that tank prior to planting Viktor!


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## Aquadream (27 Feb 2013)

viktorlantos said:


> Thanks G.
> I used a similar one like this:
> Oakton product details
> But i found it innaccurate on pH and slow. TDS and EC is good from this type.


 I use the same one for two years now. It is slow on PH test, but it is also damn accurate. The trouble with this kind of testers is that you have to leave them in water for 30 minutes or so for conditioning and then do the test. They also need to be calibrated often.
When this one I have gets old I don't think I will be buying any other PH meter at all.
I didn't notice any improvement in my aquariums after the use of expensive testers and tests. So i will use what I have now for as long as it works and it will be the last.


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## viktorlantos (18 Mar 2013)

Last week i tried to make a few shots only with studio lamps. I usually use the tank light with supportive lighting so this was new to me. Removed the 4x54W Arcadia and added in the 2x500W Bowens to light it up. Was an interesting stuff to do. I am not 100% love with the result, but looks diffrent than what i did before. Only had an hour to play with it.

I do used hard plastic paper which is usually used for light tables in photography. So i layed that down to the tank from the front to the back. And the whole tank got covered this way on the top and the back. The studio lamps nicely lighted up this plastic canvas.

Here you go, the plants are not 100% top condition as here they are still growing back from the ealrier trimmings.... it takes more and more time as the setup is 9 months old here!

Loved how the grasses (Acicularis) looked in the back. Not reflected like when i do the regular way.
Also the stones gives a smoother look not that sharp with this light.


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## viktorlantos (18 Mar 2013)

At the shooting...


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## dw1305 (18 Mar 2013)

Hi all,


viktorlantos said:


> By the way do you have any recommendation on a good pH meter?


If you have water low in salts (below about 100microS) you really need a solid state ISFET chip pH meter to get accurate pH measurements. The problem with all electrode pH meters is that pH becomes problematic as you approach pure H2O (or 0dKH). Around pH7 measurements are always likely to vary, because pH is both a ratio and a log10 measurement, and at pH7 (10-7 O-H and H+ ions) small changes in ratio lead to large changes in pH (this is what Tom alludes to earlier in the post).

If you want to get accurate pH measurements, you really need to calibrate the meter before every use in pH4 and pH7 buffers and look after the electrodes very carefully.

cheers Darrel


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## Andris87 (18 Mar 2013)

Nice rocky hills with a really natural feeling!


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## LondonDragon (18 Mar 2013)

Stunning Viktor, looks pretty good with those lights, I feel is gives it a more natural feel, not so in your face as with the previous lights, more subtle.


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## foxfish (18 Mar 2013)

Great effect Victor, I like the pictures a lot.


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## Pedro Rosa (18 Mar 2013)

Victor,

Another great layout from you.
It's funny that i renewed my 300l aquarium this weekend with a similar slope and valley. Rocks, however, are very different... And you are a real aquascaper 

Do you used anything below the substrate to make the slope?


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## plantbrain (19 Mar 2013)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> If you have water low in salts (below about 100microS) you really need a solid state ISFET chip pH meter to get accurate pH measurements. The problem with all electrode pH meters is that pH becomes problematic as you approach pure H2O (or 0dKH). Around pH7 measurements are always likely to vary, because pH is both a ratio and a log10 measurement, and at pH7 (10-7 O-H and H+ ions) small changes in ratio lead to large changes in pH (this is what Tom alludes to earlier in the post).
> 
> ...


 
Not many have such low uS tank water. Ferts also add a lot.
So my tap is pretty soft, but the ferts contribute about 150-200 uS, so I'm at about 250-300.
The curve drops offs real fast as you approach zero KH. 

But..........this just means you cannot measure it directly with pH/KH. You can do indirect measurement however.
 Eg, add KH/alk to the system, then replace with pure water to dilute it back down. Then take a relative measure or another form.
I also have a device that will work with a pH probe/meter that will avoid any of this since the pH is isolated in a rference cell with a teflon membrane for gas exchange (but not KH). Has about 99% accuracy over 60 seconds stabilization time. So about +/- 1ppm at the worst.
Not bad I figure. Independent of KH.

This is a bit off topic here though

Victor, the photos look excellent I think, I know what you are saying color wise with the lighting, it's a learned preference we all seem to have as aquarist using specific lighting.


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## viktorlantos (30 Mar 2013)

Gave a bit of a tweak on this setup today. I loved the full green hills, but some others missed the sand which i had at the start. So had this bug in my head for a week. And as i had a bit more time today i removed some plants and filled in the sand - ADA Mekong.

This is too early to tell this is 100% better with sand, as the sand is too steril right now, but will work on it i guess. As the tank is in a nice form probably will capture this to the contests.

No photo light this time just the 4x54 Arcadia.

Playing with that where to shoot this tank. From below where i see the surface and the hills are bigger tank looks deeper, from above where i see the sand paths/pads but hills are smaller, or from the center like it is now.

Anyway i thougth i share it with you guys.


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## Ady34 (30 Mar 2013)

Hi victor,
personally i really like the sand area, it seems to add purpose to the scape and oddly a sense of scale which was lost without it. Now it looks like a huge rocky cliff side scene  Unsure now with the addition of the sand bed that the hydrocotle at the right front is needed in the scape though?
Plants are looking really healthy again...have you been doing anything differently?...or is that down to how it is being lit for the photo?
Great aquascape and nice tweaks!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## viktorlantos (30 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> Hi victor,
> personally i really like the sand area, it seems to add purpose to the scape and oddly a sense of scale which was lost without it. Now it looks like a huge rocky cliff side scene  Unsure now with the addition of the sand bed that the hydrocotle at the right front is needed in the scape though?
> Plants are looking really healthy again...have you been doing anything differently?...or is that down to how it is being lit for the photo?
> Great aquascape and nice tweaks!
> ...


 
Cheers Ady, thanks for your feedback. You're right hydro and staurogyne not fit that much to the scape. I probably will remove it at the shooting. They grow back quickly usually.

On the plant health - the last trimming was like  3 weeks ago or so. So trimming frequency slowed down a lot as the tank got matured.
I had serious issues ealrier, til i found my PO4 just disappear from the tank and the plants strugle because of that.
So a few month ago added in a daily PO4 boost to the tank.
Ferts are now: Brighty K 12-14ml / day, Step 2 12-14ml / day, Easy Carbo 10ml / day, KH2PO4 boost every day or so.
Also i mentioned this before that i decreased the pH controller with 0.1. So a bit more CO2 injected to the tank.
Fully algae free now. And because of the KH2PO4 i had to clean the stones only 1 in a month.


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## greenink (30 Mar 2013)

These tanks make me want to look at flights...


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## Ionut Godea (30 Mar 2013)

I like your tank. It looks like a natural landscape. Congratulation!!


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## justin85 (30 Mar 2013)

Stunning tank!


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## plantbrain (31 Mar 2013)

I like the sand better.

Adds "nature"(the Japanese concept, not the definition) and contrast both.


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## George Farmer (31 Mar 2013)

+1 better with sand mate. 

Are you keeping the Hydrocotyle on the right?

Another stunning creation from the Hungarian master!


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## Ian Holdich (31 Mar 2013)

Looks fantastic viktor and it's also tribute to you to see how long this tank has been running. Really well done mate! Loads better with the sand...a bit of sand at the front will also move it up in the iaplc rankings ; )


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## LondonDragon (31 Mar 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> Looks fantastic viktor and it's also tribute to you to see how long this tank has been running. Really well done mate! Loads better with the sand...a bit of sand at the front will also move it up in the iaplc rankings ; )


Have to agree, this is one of my all time favourites and just keeps getting better, don't see many long term scapes these days which is what I love


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## flygja (31 Mar 2013)

Looks really good and I prefer it with the white sand as well. Adds contrast and a different texture.

That test with studio lights also looks really nice. Quite a big difference. Thinking of how to achieve with flashguns which is all I have.


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## viktorlantos (31 Mar 2013)

Thanks guys for your feedback. I am glad the last tweak helped on the layout and most of you agree with that. As the tank looked so sexy today i could not miss the chance to shoot the final photos. Before that removed the Stauro and the Hydro.

Unfortunatelly i did not had any assistance, so i had to shoot, lead the fishes, operate the hairdryer  Would have been better otherwise.
Anyway this tank is ready. How about you?


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## jon32 (1 Apr 2013)

I've been meaning to comment on this scape. I think it's really amazing, love how steeply banked it is. One day I hope to achieve something like this. btw the change with sand looks perfect. gl


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## tim (1 Apr 2013)

Hi viktor, such an awsome scape for such a long running scape, the sand really perfects the scape, inspirational work. Is your project forest still running, threads not been updated in a while.


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## viktorlantos (1 Apr 2013)

jon32 said:


> I've been meaning to comment on this scape. I think it's really amazing, love how steeply banked it is. One day I hope to achieve something like this. btw the change with sand looks perfect. gl


 
Thanks mate 



tim said:


> Hi viktor, such an awsome scape for such a long running scape, the sand really perfects the scape, inspirational work. Is your project forest still running, threads not been updated in a while.


 
Thanks Tim. Yeah i had a plan to do an interim scape between my next large project, but turned our this works pretty well with our lifestyle. This is a high energy tank, but really a low maintenance one. I only changed the water once a week. Trimming probably every 4 weeks or more. The scape looked mostly the same all the time. So it's a good example that even a high energy tank can work well at a client not just crypts anubias etc. Just need to put it on track and the rest goes well til the plants want it a different way...

For example the HC. Around this time the HC usually lift off. After 8 month or so in a high energy setup. This is happening here too, but because of the layout form not equally everywhere. If i would keep it longer i probably had to replant part of the carpet plants.

Not sure about the forest naming  That happens if there are no real names just project ones 
Is this the one: All sizes | Green Aqua Showroom | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Last time i changed the mosses. Removed the old one and replaced with a short grower riccardia. This also gives better texture and fine details to the scape.
Had to put it into shape in the next week or so before i shoot it. Probably one last trimming on the stems. And 2-2.5 weeks later i can shoot it.


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## tim (1 Apr 2013)

Is that the scape from this thread Project name - Forest | UK Aquatic Plant Society your scapes certainly are an inspiration, will both be iaplc entries, absolutely stunning work mate.


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## viktorlantos (1 Apr 2013)

tim said:


> Is that the scape from this thread Project name - Forest | UK Aquatic Plant Society your scapes certainly are an inspiration, will both be iaplc entries, absolutely stunning work mate.


 
Thanks mate.

Oh yeah. This is the one which i linked above. Looked awesome at the start, but i forgot to not use stems  So the scape quickly transformed to something else.
This was the point when i said ENOUGH!  Green Aqua Showroom | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

i still fell in love when i look back how this looked at the start. Had to try it once more .... without any stems 
Til then i try to meet with this phase in the next 2 weeks or so with deep red rotalas etc. WIl see how timing works for the photo shooting.
All sizes | Forest theme 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## tim (1 Apr 2013)

Certainly has transformed, inspirational stuff viktor looking forward to final images after iaplc, top work


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## flygja (5 Apr 2013)

Even the "enough!" scape looks worthy of any NA cover. I'm always inspired by your work Viktor!


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## alto (30 Jul 2019)

Given the recent Iwagumi Scape discussion, I thought this one well worthy of a Reboot


and especially interesting for how it developed out of the previous Asian Spirit scape 
(if only Victor had posted those transitional photos )


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