# What Leds should I use for Diy?



## Rasmusm (25 Mar 2017)

Hello all 
I was thinking of making a Diy lamp in clear acrylic/plexi. With holes drilled in for the LEDs and 120° lenses. But i really don't know what types of led's I should order for that project?

I was thinking about ~6000-6500kelvin. And maybe having 20-30 led's of 0.5-1w each, then I can always turn down the voltage a bit if it's too much light for the tank.
Tank is only 72L 60x40x30cm heigh.

What type of led's would you recommend me to use 

From Rasmus
Denmark


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## zozo (25 Mar 2017)

No lenses at all.. Most leds have a 120° angle if not more.. Depending on the hight above the tank, in most cases not needed.
Types of leds?"Depends on you skillset.  The best leds out there at the moment are the COB led units. All up to date aquarium light or horticulture led light manufacturers use them e. g. Kessils uses COB leds.. Those popular flood lights used also use COB units..

Still these leds come in al kinds of shapes and powers. So it depends on what you are planning to grow and size of tank.. Medium sized tank with a height up to 40cm and medium light the easiest would be the COB units running on regular DC 12 volt e.g. widely used in the car or mobile home industry which are usualy dimmable via simple or programmable PWM controllers.

Do you go for other types e.g. 30 volt constant current, you need an accordingly powersupply and a driver providing the constant current.. Depending on the driver still PWM can be used as dim feature. But then again it requires some knowledge about that. Recently i found a nice universal LED driver from Electro dragon.

These are somewhat configurable to drive leds from 6 to 30 volts and with changing the sense resistors it can be set to different currents and use an on board PWM tunable chip.. I'm going to use them to control my COB units.. But yet not found the time to build them.

Easy to say it aint so difficult.. But this is up to you.. I can't know, but options are numerous..

Constructionaly with acrylic, you should take the leds working temperatur, construction weight and strain into account.. Acrylic becomes rather soft at relative low temps if it warms up for long periods of time e.g. 12 hours a day. It could be OK for several months, but than starts to bend and this already at 40 to 50°C tops if the weight is out of balance. 

COB leds can get pretty hot, again this depends on the power applied. SO they need a heatsink anyway or else burn out rather quickly.


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## Rasmusm (25 Mar 2017)

Thank you very much for your reply !
So I was thinking about this led unit

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/370993270500?_mwBanner=1

Would you be kind to link to the COB type you mentioned?
Also I was thinking instead of having one huge LED like the kessil a150w Amazon sun i used before, which was an excellent unit! What I didn't like about it was that it didn't spread much out in the corners of the tank.

This was my tank before I shut it down, using the kessil.


 



 

Worked out pretty good, but I'd like to make my own lamp, also i like the DIY and the fact that it can be done for half the price 
I plan to hang the lamp maybe 20cm above the tank also with a alu profiler on top of the LEDs with thermal glue / paste, maybe a small fan somewhere not sure yet.

How long would you estimate the longevity of the LEDs with the cooling solution mentioned above?


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## zozo (25 Mar 2017)

Hi, the leds you linked to are oftenly used, but about the get kinda outdated for this kind of job. It is just a single little light source wich you have to put in aray and still get awfully hot for the output they provide.. If you would like a 1200 lumen, you would need at least 10 of these star beats.. As said COB units are the latest development, this is also where the development is focused on in the led industry (for now) These units have a build in aray of chips and are much more powerfull on a smaller surface area..  These already can give 2000 lumen with a 50x100mm surface on a 12 volt source..

I'm not pointing to a particular type of COB module, since i do not know your plans.. The choises are way abundand in size and shape.. I can advice you just to google, or search ebay/alieexpress etc for COB led units and you be overthrowen with choises.. They come square, round, diskshaped etc.
I can give an example, still do not know if this is it for what you have in mind, it's just an example of a type that might do.

It can e.g. be mounted on a CPU heatsink from an old desktop with a small fan on top if you like.. And or search for aluminium heatsinks.. Also these come in all kinds of shapes. It also just might fit in an older exciciting lamp housing with reflector.

Anyway you can choose 1 big powerfull unit or several smaller ones in aray.. 5 x 7 watt unit might do as well and do not realy need a fan. Can sufice with a proper heatsing only.. 10 watt and up is tricky without fan.. In general leds live an awfull long time, stated 50.000 hours.. Usualy if live is shorter or power specs are not met it due to bad cooling.

Here at banggood is everything a bit easier to find, just to see whta available.. Tho it wou;dn't be my choice to buy it via them, rather find a whole saler via alieexpress.

http://www.banggood.com/search/cob-led.html
Just to get an idea what choises you can have.

I know it's a lot of brainstorming..


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## Rasmusm (26 Mar 2017)

Thanks allot! I sure have alot to think about  will return when I get a bit closer, first process is to make a DIY external filter


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## zozo (26 Mar 2017)

Rasmusm said:


> Thanks allot! I sure have alot to think about  will return when I get a bit closer, first process is to make a DIY external filter


I've looked into that few years ago. I'm also a DIY adic... But end conclusion was..  Just buy a cannister prefilter and mount a pump.. More cost effective and works beter.. A sunsun HW 602 (1,5 litre) or 603 (2,5 litre) litre volume prefilter cannister (without pump) cost around $ 20 and it comes with all you need like valves and sponge media etc. It's a one in a lifetime buy if handled with a bit care. Can't beat that with diy.

Than mount any pump to it you like..

Can't build that myself for €35 and running it already for 2 years now 24/7 with this little pump never had a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-4M-6...hless-Black-/322372454964?hash=item4b0ee54a34


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## Rasmusm (26 Mar 2017)

Yes you're right can't beat that price !
I thought about this one, I like things to be oversized so I won't have to worry much about water changes, thought about the 54l size.
http://www.scandrums.dk/node/373

Then some pvc fitting and some marine pure.
I just haven't found any selling those cheap/used, except from that page^


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## zozo (27 Mar 2017)

I thought about it alot and tried a few things on smaller scale in the past.. Size doesn't realy mater pots and drums all have the same flaw if used as cannister in a closed system.. The shape it has, in almost all cases will trap air and get noisy.. But if you want to go up to 54 litre, then why not build a sump filter..  Building a sump is not only very cost effective it also is a much more sufficient way of filtering and way les maintenance as a cannister.
And it houses all other equipment, like heaters in it..

You would need a 54 litre aquarium and since it holds very little pressure internaly the internal deviders can be made from 4mm acrylic.. I do not know about Denmark and the prices there. But the Hagen aquariums 54 litre rimless i buy for about € 20 in the LFS (e.g. in Germany, it's a German brand. I live as neighbour at the other end of Germany in the Netherlands), 4mm acrylic is also pretty cheap as well comes for about the same price per square meter.

I builded this little trickle one from a 25 litre tank for less than € 30 and spend about the same amount on the overflow syphons made from clear pvc tube. But the overflow price should not be added to filter. With cannister you would need a in and outlet to.


 

If water changes are your consern, i wouldn't think twice and build a sump.. It's also oversized and runs a +/-  NET 80 litre tank.. I clean this little bugger maybe once every 2 to 3 months  The planta in there need to feed as well. It had more plants in the past, some new once need to grow in again. Next to that it is not only a more efficient way of filtering it is also a very fun challange to build and get running propperly.. You have to work with forces of nature.. Of wich i mean to say, work with them not against them..


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## Rasmusm (27 Mar 2017)

Looks like a fun challenge ! Will do some research in sump setup.
Why didn't I think much about a sump huh.. I thought about a sump in the past. I think the only reason I haven't tried it yet is because I'm too scared of drilling in the glass in the main tank. But maybe I won't have to? Do you have any good ideas for the setup when I don't want to drill in the glass? 
A 54L starter kit is cheap aswell in DK. 

Thanks for your info!


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## zozo (27 Mar 2017)

Yes  just look up Syphon overflow..  Works like a charm once you got it running propperly.. Overflow boxes are an option to, but much more dificult to create diy and rather expensive to buy..

I created this principle with 16mm clear PVC tube have 2 of them if one fails the other takes over. But if it runs as should it never fails. Tube diameter should be according to pump capacity.
Oversized is always beter..




Drilling as mainly done for eastetic reasons, but not a necessity.. If you never builded a sump before it's a bit trail and error to get it running.. The syphons and pump need to be trimmed/tunned to run propperly together.. If it does it runs smoothly and 100% quietly.. Also the sump construction should be calculated that if the syphons break for what ever reason, then it never should over flood the tank and visa versa, if the power goes down the tank shouldn't flood the sump. If that's the case it aint propperly calculated.. You read scenarios like this oftenly as a downside of a sump. But it aint true, it's bad calculation. The maximum volume the pump can take out the sump should never be greater than what the tank can take to top it of to the edge. And the syphon should stop before the max vulome of the sump is met. And it will never ever be able to spill water.. 

Actualy very simple if the tank is 100 x 50 cm and the height of the water is 2 cm bellow the rim.. Than the maximum volume the pump can take from sump should not be greater than 10 litres. Adjust the height of the pumps placement in the sump according to this. Use a floater switch, if this happens to stop the pump, or else the pump will burn out from running dry. These things only happen to beginners learning to build sumps, till all is tunned propperly..


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## Rasmusm (28 Mar 2017)

Yes thanks 
I don't want to drill the tank really.. And im sure i have a 54l starter kit somewhere !
The Syphon overflow looks interesting, i want it dead quiet, what is the difference on a durso overflow type and this?

Yes if I'm understanding this correctly.
In case of a power cut, there has to be enough volume in the sump for the tank to drain in there until it gets below the overflow.
And incase of something clogged up, there will need to be room for the last spot in the sump to be filled up in the tank..

So you just made two identical Syphon overflows incase one of them stops? 
I thought about the Jebao 3000l/h can adjust the flow rate down a bit aswell


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

A stand pipe, does not syphon, the water just flows over and falls into the sump.. In case of a syphon it works the excact same way as draining your tank with a hose. In the above construction the second (upside down) U stais filled due to vacuum, this vacuum can only break if air is sucked in and gathers in top of that U. As long as this part stays filled with water the syphon will restart itself after a power cut.

So it just works with the force of nature, you pump water in and at the same time you syphon water out. The point is if you suck more water out than you pump in then the syphon will make an eddy and suck air. Thats where the awfull noice slurping comes from.. So each overflow needs a valve so it can be trimmed regarding the fall speed of the water.. With this valves you can regulate the drainspeed to be about the same as the filling speed. If this is about equal than the water will rise a bit (+/- 10 mm) over the syphon. So when the power cuts, this 10 mm of water will keep draining to the sump till the hight of the pipe is met. The sump should take this volume without completely flooding.

Here is a good explainatory video how it works and tube size versus flow..


The over flow should always be pretected with a mesh or something to prevent blokage.. It actualy only skims the surface, so it will only trap floating materials. Constructionaly there should be no reason for it to block. Still it's beter the use 2 in case as backup. As said if it ever sucks air it can break.. It needs some tweaking and trying before it runs propperly.. Nature sometimes can e unpredictable, tubes get dirty and flow speed changes.. These are things hard to predict, along the way you learn how your setup runs and how it should be trimmed. After a cleaning tubes will run differently again so it sometimes needs little adjustments along the way.

Another thing is, the water level in the tank always stays the same.. The water level in the sump changes with evaporation, so you need to mark and monitor the sump and keep topping this off to the proper level.


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## Rasmusm (29 Mar 2017)

Oh I see,  very good answer! I can see the u turn being a problem when it's a planted tank, due to photosynthesis plant release oxygen and air bobles start bouncing around in the tank and will eventually get sucked up or and maybe after some time break the Syphon, don't you think that will be any problem?

Also how much spacing for the baffles in the sump would you think is needed ? (3000lph pump is my goal) is 10mm enough or too little?


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## zozo (29 Mar 2017)

Well plants are not airstones i rarely see bubbles bouncing around the tank... And as said it skims only the surface, so every gass bubble created in the tank what ever it is goes up first anyway and breaks at the surface.. So probably will never ever end up in your overflow syphon.. Somethimes the syphons flow speed sucks in a little bubble but this one will end up in the sump.. When a syphon start to slurp and burb because of gasping in a lot of air in, that's where syphons have the risk to break. But than the syphon is draining to fast..

For the rest calculating a sump is for a big part trail and error.. Every sump is unique in it's own way they all are diy projects and every builder builds them to the best of their own knowledge.. Just google the sump filter and look at pictures, drawings, journals, videos etc. to find what meets your ideas the best.
As you see above i made a very straight forward simple 4 chamber sump filter from a 25 litre tank. What i use it for it is highly sufficient and runs a 110 litre planted, moderately stocked low tech tank at 300 litre p/h. This sump could easily run triple the amount if needed (I think).

I do not have experience with building a 3000l/h sumps nor have experience with 300 l large high tech aquariums with the aim towards the 10x turn over myth.

The principle stays the same, only volumes change and you can go many different ways. Since it is a DIY project one would need to know the total plan on site and see from there what the options are... For sizing things up at 3000 litre p/h i would need to run some tests myself before i could even develop a theory.. And after that it still remains to be seen how this theory works in practice and what needs to be addapted and ore tuned or completely changed.. Impossible to do, from a distance as virtual bystander in plain text. Dispite all the pre investigation i did, it took me several weeks and some addaptions to get my first sump running 100% correctly.


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