# Felix smart aquarium controller, exciting prospect...



## Iain Sutherland (21 Oct 2018)

Exciting new project from George, Oliver and Ester.

https://www.felixsmart.com

Seems this will be a very versatile bit of kit and very affordable... launching on Kickstarter on October 30th.



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## Zeus. (21 Oct 2018)

Estimated cost ? For the two models

Three or eight 240v outputs nice. Any preview of the software yet?


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## tam (21 Oct 2018)

It's a bit hard to discuss without some more specific details. It sounds like a hub/smart plug socket i.e. you can control on/off functions via an app. I'm using a panasonic hub at the moment, which includes sockets you can plug anything into and set on/off times .... your coffee machine in the morning or your fish lights. 

I would guess, unless they are bringing out their own lights, it doesn't give you more than a straight on/off option no ramp up/down/spectrum control. It is lovely programming a timer via app though - so much easier! I'd be interested to see what future devices there might be to tie in with the hub. The door open/close sensors I have are not particularly fish useful, but something like a flow sensor, water level sensor, flood sensor or auto dosers could be.


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## alto (21 Oct 2018)

I’d buy it for the Health Check  
I can’t take a picture anywhere near as good


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## Iain Sutherland (21 Oct 2018)

I don't know a great deal more aside it can run multiple systems on one unit as well as integrate with other units... I'm only speculating here but maybe Bluetooth lighting can then all be run by Felix?? ..

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## Aqua360 (21 Oct 2018)

Heiko Bleher again...guy is like the Erdos of aquariums, I noted another venture he had going about biotopes recently, but haven't seen much else


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## tam (22 Oct 2018)

Iain Sutherland said:


> I'm only speculating here but maybe Bluetooth lighting can then all be run by Felix??



I would guess they would need to do deals with the manufacturers, I don't think it's possible to just connect and control any device as they would all have different formats/data requirements. It's not quite like a speaker, for example, that's designed to take input that way.


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## soggybongo (22 Oct 2018)

tam said:


> I would guess they would need to do deals with the manufacturers, I don't think it's possible to just connect and control any device as they would all have different formats/data requirements. It's not quite like a speaker, for example, that's designed to take input that way.



very easily done tbh.as an ex reef keeper alot of hich spec tanks use this sort of system for years  like "ecotech live " which lets you controll your lighting and circulation pumps no matter where you are. 
profilux have being doing this for many many many years with their plug bars (digital extension socket that connected to your home router)  you then tap into your router, peer to peer and hey presto you can now turn on / off / adjust equipment that is plugged into the profilux bar. 

looks like its near plug and play now instead of hours of jumping through hoops and programming. "hopefully"


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## ian_m (22 Oct 2018)

tam said:


> I'm using a panasonic hub at the moment, which includes sockets you can plug anything into and set on/off times .... your coffee machine in the morning or your fish lights.


I would be very very very very weary about using wireless plugs to control my fish tank after having numerous experiences with various wireless sockets, that prove the "wireless is not 100% reliable". A failure on an air pump not being turned off is OK, no harm done, failure to turn light on, OK, no harm done, but I once had a 90% fish & plant wipe out due to a liquid carbon dosing pump not being turning off and dumping a load of liquid carbon into the tank. Also had 2 litres of EI macro solution dumped in my tank, again a wireless socket failure to switch off, giving 350ppm nitrate and 80ppm phosphate for a week before I noticed. This was two failures to "on" in about 5-6 years. This is what prompted me to design/build my PLC controller, no wireless switching 100% reliable in last 3 years.

There is a reason the Felix Smart uses switched mains sockets, rather than wireless controlled sockets. .


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## tam (22 Oct 2018)

Yep, I wouldn't use it for anything critical, if the lights don't turn on/off no harm done.


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## ian_m (22 Oct 2018)

tam said:


> Yep, I wouldn't use it for anything critical, if the lights don't turn on/off no harm done


Correct. First time I noticed it, with wireless sockets, was when I came down one morning and air pump, that is normally is on from 10:45pm to 2am was still on. Should have taken this as a warning  of disasters to come.

The timed remote sender was located in cupboard next to the switched sockets, as in the picture below. It runs on 433MHz, so shouldn't be affected by WiFi/Bluetooth, though some users report IR video senders (which I have), baby monitors and car keyfobs interfere with them. To improve reliability I used multiple off times on my 3 dosing pumps, so that if the first turn off failed, it might work the second time.





Final nail(s) in coffin for them was some of the switches failed, would turn on for say 5 seconds then switch off. Failing mains 240V capacitor that was underrated. I changed them to bigger rated capacitor and worked again, but never trusted the sockets again. Some were replaced under warranty, but newer ones usd different (more reliable !!!) radio code and were incompatible with my remote so was sent a new remote, which didn't support as many timer slots as original remote. All a faff really and might improve reliability a bit but will never be 100%.

This is why I built my PLC controller
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/

Here it is just now, been running for 19,819 hours ( 2 1/4 years) with 100% switching on 12 outputs, no issues. Well chuffed. .


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## Iain Sutherland (22 Oct 2018)

Bit more info and pricing..
https://reefbuilders.com/2018/10/22/felix-smart-aquarium-controller-system-launching-soon/

As a loose rule $ convert to £ directly on product launches so good chance £99 for the basic model...

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## Zeus. (22 Oct 2018)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Bit more info and pricing..
> https://reefbuilders.com/2018/10/22/felix-smart-aquarium-controller-system-launching-soon/
> 
> As a loose rule $ convert to £ directly on product launches so good chance £99 for the basic model...
> ...



That's not to bad if the software does the job! Obviously need to see more of its specs


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## zozo (24 Oct 2018)

Zeus. said:


> That's not to bad if the software does the job! Obviously need to see more of its specs





couldn't help hearing this while watching above video.


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## rebel (24 Oct 2018)

So far my favourite item from this thread has been the Knight Rider theme.

Rest is just hype. 

Except for the PLC, that looks like a reliable system.


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## zozo (24 Oct 2018)

rebel said:


> Rest is just hype.



Who knows, maybe it realy talks back!?.. Something like command "Feed my fish Felix!".. And it asnwers "What would you like me to feed Rebel? Flakes or pellets. Maybe some bloodworms? My sensors say, some fish craving for it.." By the way i sense somebody at the door, trying to sell you a Vacuum cleaner..


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## ian_m (24 Oct 2018)

Looks very interesting especially at the £99 for three outlets and 8 outlets for £299, which seems quite reasonable, especially considering the functionality. 3 outlets, one for lights, one for CO2 and final for dosing pump would make a cracking automating starter system.

Just hope they haven't just put a Raspberry Pi (or equivalent) in a box with a couple of relays and some software and are hoping it works reliably. They will be very disappointed.

Making reliable electronics and software is not easy, not cheap and takes time and experience to do it right.

We wait to see.


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## Harry H (24 Oct 2018)

It is interesting...

But, I just purchased a smart power strip, has 4 outlets, individually controlled, works via IOT apps, schedules everything, can work with Alexa and Google home, and paid about £30.

What more would Felix give me to justify the price?

Looking forward to view the full specs.


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## ian_m (24 Oct 2018)

Shame it hasn't got a display to indicate what it is doing and to allow local setup/programming. I suppose a decent colour screen, that "looks the biz", would add substantially to the cost, for little return.


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Oct 2018)

crowdfunding is live with some details on the devise....
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...UbAO2ZXZzMfNz_vvQyc2f32PI4EQ0o8xz95H4iyMZiU#/


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## ian_m (30 Oct 2018)

Indiegogo doesn't work with IE, so but of a poo if you are at work...


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## ian_m (30 Oct 2018)

Hmmm not convinced at all now, I think $30,000 (of which they have only $7,300) is way way not enough, especially as they are writing software on both the unit and phone. Most of the crowdfunded failures I see, are due to completely underestimating the software costs, which can be as high as 80% of the costs when the project collapses. .

I get involved in many commercial projects, customer goes "oh its just a bit of hardware, look I added up the parts cost and it works out only £100 and we just add a bit of software, job done". Well the parts ended up being nearer £250 (custom case, custom PCB, wiring loom etc) and software ended up coming in at over £25,000 (or more) of a commercial programmer for 6 months.

I wait to be proved wrong. These IoT things, done properly, are complicated and never as cheap and quick as people estimate.


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## Ray_Norwich (30 Oct 2018)

Harry H said:


> It is interesting...
> 
> But, I just purchased a smart power strip, has 4 outlets, individually controlled, works via IOT apps, schedules everything, can work with Alexa and Google home, and paid about £30.
> 
> ...


Hi harry, I'm looking for a couple of smart power strips, mind if I ask what you got and if you're happy with it?


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## Ray_Norwich (30 Oct 2018)

ian_m said:


> Hmmm not convinced at all now, I think $30,000 (of which they have only $7,300) is way way not enough, especially as they are writing software on both the unit and phone. Most of the crowdfunded failures I see, are due to completely underestimating the software costs, which can be as high as 80% of the costs when the project collapses. .
> 
> I get involved in many commercial projects, customer goes "oh its just a bit of hardware, look I added up the parts cost and it works out only £100 and we just add a bit of software, job done". Well the parts ended up being nearer £250 (custom case, custom PCB, wiring loom etc) and software ended up coming in at over £25,000 (or more) of a commercial programmer for 6 months.
> 
> I wait to be proved wrong. These IoT things, done properly, are complicated and never as cheap and quick as people estimate.


Ian, you could be right, any new product (particularly software driven) at this stage has a lot of hurdles to jump, but I decided to take a punt anyway.  It's got the right people behind it, the design's sleek and they know how to go to market with some style.  I'd love to see it succeed and if it does deliver on the promise, I reckon it will be pretty bloody awesome, good luck to them!


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## Harry H (30 Oct 2018)

Ray_Norwich said:


> Hi harry, I'm looking for a couple of smart power strips, mind if I ask what you got and if you're happy with it?


@Ray_Norwich, I will PM you what I got.


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Oct 2018)

ian_m said:


> Hmmm not convinced at all now, I think $30,000 (of which they have only $7,300) is way way not enough, especially as they are writing software on both the unit and phone. Most of the crowdfunded failures I see, are due to completely underestimating the software costs, which can be as high as 80% of the costs when the project collapses. .
> 
> I get involved in many commercial projects, customer goes "oh its just a bit of hardware, look I added up the parts cost and it works out only £100 and we just add a bit of software, job done". Well the parts ended up being nearer £250 (custom case, custom PCB, wiring loom etc) and software ended up coming in at over £25,000 (or more) of a commercial programmer for 6 months.
> 
> I wait to be proved wrong. These IoT things, done properly, are complicated and never as cheap and quick as people estimate.


I'm fairly confidential this has been thought through well, I know it's been planned for a long time prior to now, Esta is no stranger to big business.

Also crowd funding isnt always  the full investment into product just a good way to launch a product with reduced risk.... it's used as another business strategy tool quite often.

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## Iain Sutherland (30 Oct 2018)

Personally I think it's a great idea, had it been around a few years back I would certainly buy one but given I've spent a small fortune on my fully programmable giesemann light unit a large part of the benefit would be lost.  If it turns out it will sync with my lights off the shelf then I'm in as the giessman control app sucks balls, especially on mobile.

I am still considering it as i like a few of the other features. In particular it would be a fairly cheap failsafe for inline heaters that have a habit of cooking tanks!

£50 to fully automate a set up with simple dimmable lighting like twinstar seems a very interesting proposition...

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## Siege (30 Oct 2018)

I understand the main guy behind it is quite a big deal in the industry and is also behind a brand that you all will know. This is his 4th Kickstarter product. Software has been approved by Arrow.

Yes bit of a gamble but Should be good in theory, if you have need for an app to control electronics that is.


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## rebel (30 Oct 2018)

How much would the full project cost? $100k or 150k? or so. They may have other sources of funding also. Indigogo could be a way of gauging interest perhaps?


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## Daveslaney (5 Nov 2018)

Sounds interesting, but as been said it all depends on the units functions really. If it can control your light unit sunrise sunset intensity timings yes sounds great. If it's just on off function not so good.
There is mention of a ph probe? Is this just for monitoring or could it be used to turn your co2 off if the ph drops below a set point and save your livestock from being gassed?
Can the unit be used for temp control with a probe?
To many unanswered questions at the min to make a judgement one way or the other or make a pre order I would say.


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## ian_m (18 Dec 2018)

Anyone heard any more about this ? Looks like June/July 2019 availability.


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## Ed Wiser (18 Dec 2018)

I bought this smart powerstrip for my Planted aquarium.
https://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5516_HS300.html

I use GHL profilux system on my Saltwater tanks but the planted tank would require me running a cat 5 cable under the house and just didn't feel it was needed. The smart power strips do a lot now days.


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## zozo (18 Dec 2018)

Ed Wiser said:


> I bought this smart powerstrip for my Planted aquarium.
> https://www.tp-link.com/us/products/details/cat-5516_HS300.html
> 
> I use GHL profilux system on my Saltwater tanks but the planted tank would require me running a cat 5 cable under the house and just didn't feel it was needed. The smart power strips do a lot now days.



That looks like a realy nice device.. 

Question? The Sunrise feature?
https://www.tp-link.com/us/faq-2328.html

Does this function via 1 choosen plug outlet on regular dimmable AC powered bulbs?

Or does it require the Kasa Smart bulbs?
https://www.tp-link.com/us/download/KB100.html


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## Ed Wiser (18 Dec 2018)

I haven’t tried that and it’s not something I would ever do. Sort of like the lighting and storm function on lights. Feel like I am at Disney land


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## zozo (18 Dec 2018)

Never mind anyway.. It's yet not for me.. I see it doesn't come with an EU plug version.. Only thing i can find is US and UK plug.. 
But it's indeed a very interesting powerstrip..


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## Stu1407 (18 Dec 2018)

zozo said:


> Never mind anyway.. It's yet not for me.. I see it doesn't come with an EU plug version.. Only thing i can find is US and UK plug..
> But it's indeed a very interesting powerstrip..


I can't find a UK version anywhere. The one on Amazon UK seems to at US voltages and is also £185 which is outrageous. Where did you find one with a UK plug please.

Stu


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## zozo (19 Dec 2018)

Stu1407 said:


> I can't find a UK version anywhere. The one on Amazon UK seems to at US voltages and is also £185 which is outrageous. Where did you find one with a UK plug please.
> 
> Stu



Sorry i didn't notice the voltage specs, i saw UK and a plug i can't use and didn't look any further. It might been Amazon.


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## Ed Wiser (19 Dec 2018)

I would look up smart WiFi power strip. As I am in the states we see a lot of this type of equipment pushed for those that are techie. With the different voltage standards in the EU it can be hard getting this kind of tech I bet. I heard Apex still hasn't gotten a power strip based on their new controller in the UK yet.


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## Stu1407 (19 Dec 2018)

Ed Wiser said:


> I would look up smart WiFi power strip. As I am in the states we see a lot of this type of equipment pushed for those that are techie. With the different voltage standards in the EU it can be hard getting this kind of tech I bet. I heard Apex still hasn't gotten a power strip based on their new controller in the UK yet.


Thanks I will


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## zozo (19 Dec 2018)

Ed Wiser said:


> I would look up smart WiFi power strip. As I am in the states we see a lot of this type of equipment pushed for those that are techie. With the different voltage standards in the EU it can be hard getting this kind of tech I bet. I heard Apex still hasn't gotten a power strip based on their new controller in the UK yet.



Yes thanks i see we have DLink, something simmular. There are a few more if you search for WIFI controled power strips. Indeed something to keep an eye on it's development. Personaly i would prefer one with a scheduled dim function for lights.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Stri...h=item33fbf4c6ee:g:EygAAOSw-ghcBq87:rk:7:pf:0

And Multiplug/uniplug
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BroadLink-...h=item4b2731f2f3:g:AvwAAOSwujBZyJcu:rk:2:pf:0


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## Ed Wiser (19 Dec 2018)

The problem with diming lighting is that each brand uses a different way of doing . In the beginning they all used 0-10 dc signal not each brand tries to lock you into their brand so they all do something that requires their own tech for it to work.


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## zozo (19 Dec 2018)

Ed Wiser said:


> The problem with diming lighting is that each brand uses a different way of doing . In the beginning they all used 0-10 dc signal not each brand tries to lock you into their brand so they all do something that requires their own tech for it to work.



I know that was rather something for dimming tube light dimmable ballast.. With the todays new LED controller abilities i also do not realy see it happen that somebody is going to build in a schedulable automated AC Variac..  But never say never. The variacs are also getting smaller day by day... I'll keep an eye on it..


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## Kalum (3 Jan 2019)

Really like the sound of this in theory but it's all about how much they will have developed it and not just left it down to 'open source potential'.

It still needs the same Seneye slides but unsure if it's £20 for 3 months like the Seneye and hopefully it won't lock down and not give readings after the 1 slide per month rule or they will seriously shoot themselves in the foot with this. Working live from an app instead of having to plug into a PC or run it offline would be a big benefit over the standard Seneye if it does this

Felix control box and Seneye (rebranded) module?


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## Kalum (3 Jan 2019)

interesting to see how the easily the control box works with just plug and play sensors like this, could be good for more accurate readings and alerts


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## zozo (3 Jan 2019)

Its a mater of choices to make..  My personal problem with any all in one device i always had.. If one particular feature fails and needs to be repaired!?
Than you have to say goodby to all it's features for the time beeing it is in service. Than what? Dig up all old stuff out of the shed? What if you do not have any other backup? Leave the aqaurium completely uncontrolled for as long as the device is in service?

I feel disaster risk involved if you don't buy 2 at the time and keep one as backup. Lives depends on it. Or if you are a starter fancy this controller. Make sure you have backups just incase. The more bells and wissles it has the more chances one fails on you at some point.

My personal choice, with all respect it's a wonderfull idea and a nifty device.. But than i rather stick to independed single components each doing its own job.


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## Kalum (3 Jan 2019)

Couldn't agree more and I don't see the need for everything to be run through something like this when we already have easy solutions and setups as it is, lighting can be run from a simple TC421/S2-Pro, CO2 can be run on a plug in timer, filter just runs as is etc....

But for me it's the things like pH measurements and possibly being able to set up alerts for an imbalance such as ammonia, and a PAR meter is always a nice to have as well to get an idea. Monitoring nutrients is obviously not needed with the EI way of thinking as it will always have enough of everything but would interesting. Auto dosing would be another that could be good

The health monitor and camera side of it looks like a gimmick which i'd happily be proven wrong with but i can't see it having the clarity to detect constantly moving fish and somehow monitor their health


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## zozo (3 Jan 2019)

I also agree with that.. And if your budget allows you to invest in this it's a wonderfull thing to have and play with. Just think of the risk involved and the need for a backup, which is a possible extra investment on top.. Especialy important in the teething periode of a newly developd design product.

Software goes a long way.. I can tell as former IT specialist.. All works fine, till you install or auto update an app with a conflicting driver. It can take you weeks to find the culprit.. A software designer can't be prepared on any possible conficting driver an other 3th party can write..


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## Kalum (3 Jan 2019)

Yeh it's exactly that, a toy to try and better understand certain elements of the hobby and give you a bit more information to get the best out of things. Not something to fully depend the well being of your tank and inhabitants on

Interesting though and hopefully they sort out the restrictive issues that the Seneye has and also add a whole lot more useful additions to it


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## ian_m (12 Aug 2019)

Anyone heard any more about this. Supposed delivery June 2019. Got over £50,000 funding now.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/...UbAO2ZXZzMfNz_vvQyc2f32PI4EQ0o8xz95H4iyMZiU#/

http://www.felixsmart.com


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## Ed Wiser (12 Aug 2019)

Finally shipping after several years of research. 24/7 water testing. 
https://www.mindstreamh2o.com/

This one has been a long time coming and is been highly anticipated.


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## ian_m (12 Aug 2019)

Hmmmm. Are you sure your link is correct ?

That points to a water parameter monitor for $995 AND $35 a month subscription. That buys rather a lot of lab grade test kits for that price.


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## zozo (12 Aug 2019)

According the Felix Smart Facebook, retail will launch this year september..
https://www.facebook.com/myfelixsmart/


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## Ed Wiser (12 Aug 2019)

ian_m said:


> Hmmmm. Are you sure your link is correct ?
> 
> That points to a water parameter monitor for $995 AND $35 a month subscription. That buys rather a lot of lab grade test kits for that price.



Right this is a 24/7 testing info water parameters. It has already saved several aquariums from equipment failures to the constant testing of the parameters. 
Doubt people test their water every hour.  or even once a week. It graphs the parameters so you catch issues before it shows up just looking at your aquarium.


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## Zeus. (13 Aug 2019)

Ed Wiser said:


> Doubt people test their water every hour.
> 
> or even once a week



Except for pH and then temp occasionally, I havent tested my water ever, Tank over 2years old, Just reset every week except for hols OFC.



Ed Wiser said:


> It has already saved several aquariums from equipment failures to the constant testing of the parameters.



Think thats sales talk IMO, think we would of noticed a pump or light not working or CO2 issue via the DC


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## Kalum (13 Aug 2019)

it's the fitbit of the aquarium world, cool wee gadget that you'll look at for the first week or 2 then barely use again and sell after 6 months

PAR meter and PH will be handy and nice to have (but not essential) when setting up a new tank or when you have new equipment (light or co2) but that's about it for me


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## dw1305 (13 Aug 2019)

Hi all,





Ed Wiser said:


> Right this is a 24/7 testing info water parameters. It has already saved several aquariums from equipment failures to the constant testing of the parameters.
> Doubt people test their water every hour.
> 
> or even once a week.





ian_m said:


> That points to a water parameter monitor for $995 AND $35 a month subscription. That buys rather a lot of lab grade test kits for that price.





Kalum said:


> it's the fitbit of the aquarium world, cool wee gadget that you'll look at for the first week or 2 then barely use again and sell after 6 months


I'm sure they will sell some subscriptions to marine aquarists, but I'd have to say I'm beyond sceptical as well. 

Personally, if I was going to spend that sort of money, I'd approach the whole area from the opposite direction. 

My approach would be to find all the <"_single points of failure">, _and then try to address them in terms of spare capacity and <"_negative feedback loops_">.  

Actively growing plants are just the gift that keeps giving, and after that obvious single points of failure are time switches, heaters and canister filters, so they would be the first thing I'd look at. 

If I was evaluating a new product I'd be looking at complexity: H_ow complex a process is this? Does everything have to work perfectly for this process to work? 
What are the consequences if something goes wrong? _

I'm not going to know all the answers, but we _h_ave all sorts of expertise on this forum and before I bought any electrical control gear I'd ask @ian_m etc.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (13 Aug 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Actively growing plants are just the gift that keeps giving, and after that obvious single points of failure are time switches, heaters and canister filters, so they would be the first thing I'd look at.


Timer failure has always been my main point of failure. All OK if an air pump or light that jams on (or fails to come on) but I killed plants and fish when a timer failed to turn off my liquid carbon dosing pump and emptied rather a lot into the tank. This is why I designed/built my PLC tank controller. Never had a failure with that, years later.


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## Ed Wiser (13 Aug 2019)

I am a PLC programmer so tech is very comfortable to me.  Been doing it since they came out.  Automatic testing is finally coming to the hobby there are several other types coming. I use a auto KH  test system to keep the kh constant on my tank for 3 years now. There ION probes coming to the market to track phosphate an nitrate use. As the tech comes out the price will come down. To where it can be more affordable.  
There are devices like the Reefbot that will automate the testing using standard test kits. As the human factor is one of the main failure points in manual testing. 
https://www.reefkinetics.com/


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## Siege (27 Sep 2019)

Just saw an Instagram post from Felix re the app being live on app stores for people to view.

Did anyone here sign up for the early release? If so did you receive the hardware and what did it to? Worth it?


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## ian_m (11 Feb 2022)

Sorry to drag an old thread up. 
Anyone heard any more about these ?
Are they available ?
Any reviews ?
If all is yes, I will get back under my rock...


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## zozo (11 Feb 2022)

ian_m said:


> Any reviews ?


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## X3NiTH (11 Feb 2022)

Felix Smart Pro v2
					

Smart Controller Never be tied to just one brand. Connect different devices regardless of brand to Felix Smart and have them work seamlessly together. With 8 power sockets and 6 USB plugs, there is enough room for your current setup and any future devices you may want to add. Your Felix Smart...




					www.scapednature.com


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