# Deep aquarium led light



## Nikola (7 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 
Does some off u have experience with deep planted aquarium. 
I mean at least 80cm or even 1m? 

With these days modern led lights is it maybe possible accomplishing heavily planted tank with high light plants? 

Let’s put aside managing flow and CO2 in that big aquarium(that is another big problem)
I’m just curious are there some lights that are capable to grow for example some dwarf hairgrass on 80-100cm depth?


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## Nick potts (7 Jun 2020)

You'll want to look at something that has a focused beam.

No experience with a tank that deep but something like the kessil maybe.

For really deep tanks, look at the ecoxotic cannon range  ☀☀


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## alto (7 Jun 2020)

I’d suggest contacting Filipe Oliveira via FB etc as he has done several 90cm tall  aquascapes - including one in the Aquaflora canteen which he has maintained over the years (you can view this on his YouTube channel)
There is also the Aquaflora 1400 L aquarium (which travels to exhibitions) 200cm x 80cm x 90cm h

More recent tanks have shifted to LED, older tanks were done with T5 (presumably HOT5 or VHOT5 with well designed reflectors)

Some of the videos include planting, lighting, filtration details, or these often appear in comments in response to queries

Magical Tree (previewed at Interzoo 2016 and maintained through the year)



Red Bonsai Tree (approximately 1 year after setup)


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## tiger15 (8 Jun 2020)

What is the red leaf plant on the bonsai tree?


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

> On the top of the Tree: - Ludwigia sp. 'Mini Super Red'



I did try to link videos that included details 
The plants was tied loosely (to hold the stems in place but not cut into the stem) with fishing line type thread (I think) - if glued, the plant failed
(Filipe Oliveira mentions this somewhere/sometime re it’s a frequent question in his workshops)
There are several videos following this scape (beginning a few days after setup perhaps, there are also other “trees” in FOA’s portfolio)

Note this version of Ludwigia does seem slightly different than Tropica’s L palustris (for example)


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## Nikola (8 Jun 2020)

Thanks for the video [mention]alto [/mention] 
I can see that he is using Awuaillumination 4x hidra leds. 

My dream is to make planted aquarium 300cm x 80cm x 90cm. 

So I would need 6 off them, that is around 3600$ just for the light. My dream will stay a dream for now 


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## ian_m (8 Jun 2020)

One thing to bare in mind, which is often a point of failure in deep tanks, is maintenance.

You need to think how you are going to reach the bottom of the tank to clean, plant plants, shuffle substrate etc. People have come up with boxes to stand on, scaffolding steps, extra long gravel pumps etc. so they can reach the bottom of the tank.


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## tiger15 (8 Jun 2020)

alto said:


> The plants was tied loosely (to hold the stems in place but not cut into the stem) with fishing line type thread (I think) - if glued, the plant failed
> 
> Note this version of Ludwigia does seem slightly different than Tropica’s L palustris (for example)


It must be a high maintenance set up.  If there is enough light to keep Ludwigia Palustris red, it will grow rapidly requiring constant pruning and periodic replanting.  

 Why not try some slower growing red stems such as AR mini,  and will it likely work?


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## Nikola (8 Jun 2020)

ian_m said:


> One thing to bare in mind, which is often a point of failure in deep tanks, is maintenance.
> 
> You need to think how you are going to reach the bottom of the tank to clean, plant plants, shuffle substrate etc. People have come up with boxes to stand on, scaffolding steps, extra long gravel pumps etc. so they can reach the bottom of the tank.



Yea I know, it’s a trouble but still manageable. 
My biggest concern is storing off water for changing it. Aquarium would be almost 3 tons off water. 
And off course it has to be automated otherwise it’s pain in the ass 


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## Nikola (8 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> It must be a high maintenance set up. If there is enough light to keep Ludwigia Palustris red, it will grow rapidly requiring constant pruning and periodic replanting.
> 
> Why not try some slower growing red stems such as AR mini, and will it likely work?



It’s I think just a good reason to earn extra money on maintenance.


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> It must be a high maintenance set up.  If there is enough light to keep Ludwigia Palustris red, it will grow rapidly requiring constant pruning and periodic replanting.



If you follow Filipe Oliveira, he has several videos on how he maintains his home tanks - they follow much the same principles as the tanks he scapes and maintains for Aquaflora 
Nutrient rich substrate
Low water column nutrients (nitrogen limited to enhance reds) to slow growth
Good flow (but not so much the sort where plants are waving in current), CO2, lighting etc 

I find him really zen 

I’m not a fan of AR mini - it may grow slower and shorter but the leafs are so big, it just looks like a stocky dwarf version of its taller cousins - it’s often used in small tanks and does no justice to the perspective


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

Nikola said:


> My biggest concern is storing off water for changing it.


Is there some reason you can’t just use tap water?

You can use T5 lighting for this tank height - though consider the running costs vs LED - and dimmable T5 lighting tends to be very expensive 

If you’ve a portfolio (of your aquarium scapes), you might approach a lighting manufacturer (or retailer) for support - obviously you would need diagrams, details of your intended work, photo and video media following tank development 
(Filter and plant nursery support would also be very nice)

 I’m assuming you’ve already a good amount of planted tank experience before committing to such a large and deep aquarium


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## Nikola (8 Jun 2020)

My tap water is too hard, it’s like 14GH and 14KH. It’s maybe fine, but would like keeping it lower with GH and especially with KH.

Well I’m not so experienced yet, doing my progress in this hobby, and definitely will not try it until I will be 100% sure that I can manage it. 

I’m practicing now with automatization with my current aquarium, did everything over plc. In a year or two I’m getting into a new house and I really want to have that beautiful giant planted aquarium in my living room, doesn’t matter how hard will be trimming it and cleaning it. 

Until than researching a lot and practicing.


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## tiger15 (8 Jun 2020)

alto said:


> Low water column nutrients (nitrogen limited to enhance reds) to slow growth
> Good flow (but not so much the sort where plants are waving in current), CO2, lighting etc


I think nitrogen limiting only works with some plants, and Ludwigia isn’t one of them according to Dennis  Wong.  Nitrogen limiting approach is like walking on thin line, and need experience to detect over killing intolerant plants before it’s too late.



alto said:


> You can use T5 lighting for this tank height - though consider the running costs vs LED - and dimmable T5 lighting tends to be very expensive


I think narrow beam led is the way to go with tall tanks to provide more uniform vertical distribution of light.  T5 and any broad beam light follow the inverse square distance law in that if the substrate get enough light to grow carpet plants , there will be too intense light near the top causing uneven growth and algae.


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

There are a few large tank journals on ukaps, worth reading and most dealt with various issues (especially good flow throughout the tank, CO2 etc)


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> I think nitrogen limiting only works with some plants, and Ludwigia isn’t one of them according to Dennis Wong. Nitrogen limiting approach is like walking on thin line, and need experience to detect over killing intolerant plants before it’s too late.


I’m guessing this is just one of those YMMV situations
My tanks definitely run N limited and I don’t find it complicated but I try to set tank to run fairly low energy (FOA style) so I don’t need to trim too often etc ... plant growth is definitely more dynamic when I fertilize regularly but plants also manage when I don’t fertilize at all (I’m curious how growth will develop/maintain given just the Tropica Powder substrate) 

If you’re going with high intensity, high energy, rapid growth system, then, yes, suitable fertilization becomes much more vital to maintain that system you’ve created


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## alto (8 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> I think narrow beam led is the way to go with tall tanks to provide more uniform vertical distribution of light. T5 and any broad beam light follow the inverse square distance law in that if the substrate get enough light to grow carpet plants , there will be too intense light near the top causing uneven growth and algae.


What do you consider narrow beam?

I’ve looked at the PAR graphs from Sanjay Joshi for various lighting and 60* - 150* lens LED systems - all have much higher intensity nearer the source

120* LED lens became somewhat standard for freshwater planted systems out of trials, rather than just some arbitrary decision


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## tiger15 (9 Jun 2020)

ADA approach uses rich soil to supplement low N and P in the water column.  It won’t work with hungry plants and need experience to manage aging soil to replenish lost nutrients, so it is not as easy as rich dosing.

Stage LEDs focus light with minimal reduction of intensity with distance.  I’m sure you can adapt them for aquascaping  use or find some already made for aquarium.  A perfect form would be laser lights that generate parallel beams with conservation of intensity with distance but I doubt if it has ever been tried for aquascaping.


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## Nikola (9 Jun 2020)

I was reading about those 60* leds, lot off people are telling that they are good for deep aquariums. They have more focused beam and penetrate more trough water column. Before I run into some diy light made from these ones and guy had success but I cannot find it again anywhere to read more about it. 
I have found some leds 60* in shops...u can buy red, blue, white and green leds 1W each for like 20 cents(think 200lumen per diode but need to check again),and power supply around 100W is something like 50$. Or even to buy 60* RGB leds and than u can set spectrum like u want, they are around 60 cents. Maybe I will try making the light for something smaller and test it. I just need to find somewhere which relations between colors are this big companies using, ADA for example. 

I think with such a fast progress with leds soon we will have much more affordable lights for deep aquariums. As soon as these companies sees a good market for it. Look couple off years back...if u would mention 1m height for planted aquarium everyone would say that u are crazy. Today already we have something, little expensive but it’s there. 


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## rebel (9 Jun 2020)

60 degree lenses on 3W LED diodes would get to 80cm I reckon. 45 if you want to hang them high.


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## Nikola (9 Jun 2020)

Okay, that’s a good info 


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## zozo (9 Jun 2020)

You might want a look at these cob units.

https://www.banggood.com/150W-15000...l?rmmds=myorder&ID=383748036&cur_warehouse=CN

they outperform a 1000 watts metal halide with ease less than 1/6 the power consumption. It hooks straight to mains AC220 and can be dimmed with VARIAC of necessary.

The challenge is to build sufficient housing for it, it needs a heatsink and preferably forced fan cooling to prolong its lifespan. 

I did rebuild a regular R7S 1000W floodlight housing with such a unit for in the garden. And it performs really impressive.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-light.60653/post-595741

Anyway, if you don't mind ditching the RGB en controllable spectrum idea and go with a 6500K, this might save you some time and money.


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## Nikola (9 Jun 2020)

Hi , yes I saw them already. They are pretty powerful, just like u said they need good cooling system. 


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## alto (9 Jun 2020)

The newest generation HD Prime freshwater include 80* lens as standard and has a proper Moonlight channel now (that isn’t BLUE)
(previously AI has offered various lens kits BUT this no longer appears on their Accessories page)

https://www.aquaillumination.com/products/prime-freshwater

(unfortunately, AI hasn’t updated their “light sciences data” to allow comparisons of their new generation lights vs previous generations)

And Jake Adams review (of course)
https://reefbuilders.com/2019/10/04...me-in-four-versions-reef-sol-fuge-freshwater/

As Marcel mentions, DIY builds can be a sound solution - there are a few LED builds on ukaps (including updated versions) 

AquaOwner always has interesting lighting reviews and videos


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## alto (9 Jun 2020)

tiger15 said:


> ADA approach uses rich soil to supplement low N and P in the water column. It won’t work with hungry plants


Does this mean you find the Green Aqua Gallery only includes “easy” plants?
(or growth is poor?)


And I guess FOA would also fall into that category


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## JoshP12 (10 Jun 2020)

Hi @Nikola 

To give some experience on the AI primes, I will share my data! 

I have a 60cm deep tank and 90 cm long. I have 2x AI primes. The most light-hungry plant that I have is pogostemon erectus (but I do have a carpet of S. repens). I will be adding more hungry plants so I will have a better comparison for that for you; however, until then : 

The plants grow (and I am certain I could reduce the light to maintain growth). I run the following:
Warm white: 39%
Cool white: 39%
Deep red: 35%
Blue: 10%
Green: 20% 

Now, I do have some overlap of light due to my length (the primes cover 24 inch each iirc - it might be 28). They are also 1 foot above the water. 

So, with all that in mind, I think these could probably grow stuff at 80cm ... maybe 1m? 

Josh


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## tiger15 (10 Jun 2020)

alto said:


> Does this mean you find the Green Aqua Gallery only includes “easy” plants?
> (or growth is poor?)
> 
> 
> And I guess FOA would also fall into that category


According to to Dennis Wong, the ADA gallery in Niigata, Japan is dominated by easy plants.

_ADA tanks generally also choose easy growing plants that grow well in a large range of conditions; many of their tanks feature java fern and anubias, cryptocoryne species. The usage of easy plants coupled with good design results in tanks that are aesthetically pleasing yet easy to maintain._

https://www.advancedplantedtank.com/blogs/fertilize-planted-tank/ada-approach-101

I don’t know much about Green Aqua Gallery, but can attest that the Sumida Aquarium I visited in Tokyo where Amano built his last big nature aquariums are dominated by easy plants exclusively.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/my-visit-to-japan-aquariums.57800/


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## tiger15 (10 Jun 2020)

If I had a deep tank, I would use a combination of  narrow  and wide beam LEDs.  The narrow beam would shine at the substrate to grow carpet plants and the wide beam to cover the top where  narrow beam miss.  Unless your choice is  all high light Dutch , choice of plants can be tailored to the light distribution which does not have to homogeneous; for instance, placing  high light plants on top or near  high PAR zone, and low light plants in shady or low PAR zone.


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## Nikola (12 Jun 2020)

Thanks people, u gave me a lot off info here. AI primes as I can see are really good choice. I already have some ideas in my head. And like @tiger15 said, the best is to target some areas in aquarium for highlight plants, and less demanding plants to put in less lighted areas. 

Hope that soon I will buy a house first, than aquarium is going (house will chose by place for aquarium, but don't tell it to my wife )


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## hypnogogia (12 Jun 2020)

Nikola said:


> Hope that soon I will buy a house first, than aquarium is going (house will chose by place for aquarium, but don't tell it to my wife )



that beautiful space for an aquarium will be just as lovely for a fancy shelf unit for all your photos and nik naks  collected over the years!


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## Nikola (12 Jun 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> that beautiful space for an aquarium will be just as lovely for a fancy shelf unit for all your photos and nik naks collected over the years!


Haha, u are totally right in that. I will need some good diversion for that  

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## alto (12 Jun 2020)

JoshP12 said:


> I have 2x AI primes.


Are these the latest generation?
(Jake Adams has lighting reviews over the years, so you should be able to find whichever model AI Prime you have)


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