# Hair Algae/No growth - Updated with pics



## Jaap (19 Nov 2011)

Hello,

I have trouble with brown algae on the second week of life of my new tank. Its now spreading on the rocks and Eleocharis Parvula.

Tank specifications - 60x30x45   70L
Lighting - Hagen Glo T5HO/48W - 8 Hours on
CO2 - Pressurised paintball cylinder
Filtration - Hydro/ 900 L/h
Fertilisation routine - EI

I have added 2 amano shrimp today. I can wipe off the algae from the glass but I can't do that on the rocks or eleocharis parvulus.

Any suggestions?

Thanks


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## Alastair (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae*

Sounds like diatom algae mate. Normal for a newly set up tank and will disappear on its own. Alot of people of they don't like it get otocinclus as they Love the stuff. If not just clear as much off as possible and keep up with maintenance as normal. 
I'd reduce the lighting by an hour or so to start with.


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## spyder (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae*

As Alastair said. Add a few Oto's they will soon clear it up and keep it at bay. 

I have a few Oto's that I rotate around when I setup a new tank. They usually go in after a week or 2.


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## Jaap (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae*

It seems that the tank also is beginning to have green spots on the glass but also a few threads of algae 1-2cm long that are on the gravel,glass and a few plants. 

I have added Excell, reduced the light period from 8 to 7 hours, upped the CO2 from 1 bps to 2.5 bps.

Also when using the EI I need to add 7ml of my solution according to Jame's Planted tank but I think I might be dosing around 6ml. I will pump the solution 4 time instead of 3 which will give me around 8ml of the solution.

Sounds good?


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## spyder (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

GSA could be low phosphates if I remember correctly.

I would consider 48w over 70l pretty high lighting. Is it possible to raise your lights from the tank to reduce the intensity?


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## Jaap (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> GSA could be low phosphates if I remember correctly.
> 
> I would consider 48w over 70l pretty high lighting. Is it possible to raise your lights from the tank to reduce the intensity?



Unfortunately not....


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## r'n'r (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

I got exactly the same algae issue.
juwel visio 180 at it's third week (no livestock)
2x35 W T5 (will add 2X35W more next week)
PP - 9h
TNP+ fertilizer 15 ml daily
Co2 - easy life 30 ml daily until the next week when my Co2 system will be installed
temp. - 26C
battling algae with water change 3 times a week. Helps quite a bit.    
Hopping with Co2 and increased lighting it will disappear within 2 weeks. I might add shrimps and oto's during that period.


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## spyder (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*



			
				r'n'r said:
			
		

> I got exactly the same algae issue.
> j
> 2x35 W T5 (will add 2X35W more next week)
> 
> ...



Why add another 70w of lighting if you cannot handle what you are using now?

Easy carbo is 1ml per 50L? Your dosing to cover 1,500l there or 750l if you double dose.

Increasing light will never reduce algae unless you blast it hard enough to fry it!


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## r'n'r (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

it isn't that I can't handle it, this type of algae is common in new setups, this one is only 3 weeks old. 
I'm aiming to find a balance, there's still no co2 system, which quite crucial element.
I'll try to experiment, since it's my first attempt for planted tank.


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## spyder (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Understand.



			
				r'n'r said:
			
		

> I'll try to experiment, since it's my first attempt for planted tank.



If this is the case, please save your cash, it's better off invested into good co2 delivery than on doubling light intensity. When you can grow healthy plants without algae then you can consider upping the light. 

If you add the light be prepared for double the algae growth in half the time.


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## r'n'r (19 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Co2 will go first, considering what you've said, I'll not rush with the lights.
Thanks


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## Jaap (24 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

The brow algae seems to still be spreading but at a lower rate and not on plants. The only plants affected are the ones that were planted first and never established. All new plantlents of the eleocharis parvula are healthy and growing. Is there something to be done? Its still the 3rd week of the tank...


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## ceg4048 (24 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

You still have too much light. Reduce the intensity by at least 30%. We cannot see how well your distribution of flow and CO2 are from far away but these are also very important.

Cheers,


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## Jaap (24 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> You still have too much light. Reduce the intensity by at least 30%. We cannot see how well your distribution of flow and CO2 are from far away but these are also very important.
> 
> Cheers,



1. I can remove one fluorescent tube thus decreasing light from 48w to 24w. Should I go ahead?

2. My flow is 900L/h through a lily pipe on the corner of the tank. The tank is 70L so I guess is more than enough.

3. CO2 is distributed via a diffuser under the inflow of the filter which sucks most of the bubbles coming from the diffuser and so my tank is full of small co2 bubbles coming out of the outflow of the filter.

Any suggestions?


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## Jaap (25 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

The situation is getting worse.....anyone?


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## spyder (25 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

1. Remove a tube yes.

2. Buy oto's if its's the brown diatom algae.

3. Drink tea


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## Jaap (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Brown Algae (diatoms) are more likely to appear in low-light aquarium and new set-ups, with excess silicate acids (SiO2). Its been known that strong lights make this algae go away, but they might still be seen on lower, shadowed, plant leaves.???????http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/


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## Jaap (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

ceg4048 do u think I have too much light? I am confused....I think I have medium light....


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## spyder (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Tank specifications - 60x30x45 70L
Lighting - Hagen Glo T5HO/48W - 8 Hours on

I would say 48w is quite high over this volume. Your tank is a little over 2 weeks old. Diatoms do appear in new setups. Lower light will help through this period. If your co2 and flow is good it gives your plants chance to get established. Then you can up the lights & keep up with co2. 

Have you reduced your lights throughout this post and if you have, then how is the GSA and hair algae now? If it is only diatoms then nothing beats oto's for clearing it up. 

Can you post a photo or 2?


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## Jaap (2 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Hello,

Unfortunately my camera broke and I can't post any pics yet.

The tank is 3 weeks old now and it has Eleocharis Parvula. No fauna.

The tank is full of diatoms algae and a bit of hair algae. Now the glass is covered with green spot algae. 

I added 2 amanos a week ago but they died so I am not adding any more livestock yet untill I know whats wrong.

I am measuring Ph and Kh with those multipurpose strips and I get 6Kh and 6.8 Ph. I dont trust the readings though since they measure exactly the same when testing my tap water.

Any ideas on what to do? Is it because of the 48w T5HO and will 24W be better? Should I increase CO2 if we assume that Phosphate levels are good due to EI?

Thanks


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## CeeJay (2 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Hi Jaap


			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> Any ideas on what to do? Is it because of the 48w T5HO and will 24W be better?


This will most definitely help until the tank is established.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> Should I increase CO2 if we assume that Phosphate levels are good due to EI?


If you have no livestock, you can crank the CO2 as high as you wish. This will get the plants off to a good start. Just remember to wind it back when you start stocking.
On one of my tanks that has T5's over it, I always used to get GSA on the glass. I tried cranking up the CO2 but the fish became stressed, so I now add an extra teaspoon of KH2PO4 to my mix and haven't seen any GSA for well over a year  .   I would have liked to have raised the lights but due to the location of the tank it is not possible, so I devised another method of reducing the light intensity.
Oddly enough this never happens on my tank with T8's over it  :? 
I'm telling you, T5's were invented by the devil himself


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## tyrophagus (3 Dec 2011)

I would make sure your overall light levels are on the lower side, watts and hours. 

To much light + ammonia = algae

So clean regularly and reduce light. 

Because you have no fauna I'd have high levels of c02 but remember Otos and shrimp help remove some algae. 

I'd use EI at higher than recommended doses. Then once everything's ok reduce it down slowly. 

I'm not as expert as some on this forum but I've been where you are and there's loads of help on this forum. 

Good luck


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## Jaap (3 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Should I add a couple of otos or is it risky?

My kH hardness is between 7 and 8. Is this too high?


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## spyder (3 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> Should I add a couple of otos or is it risky?
> 
> My kH hardness is between 7 and 8. Is this too high?



Too high for what? the Oto's? I wouldn't have thought so. If your worrying about the hardness and the plants then relax.

Have you reduced your lighting? It's been a good 2 weeks since this was advised but you keep looking at other parameters. Start with that and keep up with the maintenance is how your going to beat it and get the tank stable.


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## Jaap (3 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Yes. I have reduced the lighting to 24W and I am now waiting to see results


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## Jaap (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

It seems that algae now grows less aggresivly. However the brown algae still continues to grow on the leaves of the eleocharis parvula. I noticed that it grows on the leaves where no direct water flow occurs. I mean under the outflow of the filter, there is no brown algae on the leaves.

Furthermore, I have increased the EI dosing from 4 pumps to 5 pumps just to ensure adiquate amount of nutrients.

Lets see by the end of the week....I am unsure of the CO2 though. How do I know if 
1. I have enought CO2 in my tank 
2. It is not lethal for fish so I can add 2 ottos?


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## CeeJay (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Hi Jaap

You need to get yourself a drop checker.
See here Drop Checker Guide


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## Jaap (11 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

I believe that the brow/diatoms algae is now gone! However I have the following problems:

1. Hair algae is observed to grow on the Eleocharis Parvula mostly situated in the four corners of the tank. I thought of water circulation but a 70 litre tank powered by a 900 L/h filter seems good enough to me. Plus I only have 24w over my tank at the moment.

2. I have noticed a small patch of cyanobacteria (BGA). I don't know what to do with this.

3. Hair algae grows on the glass.

4. The Eleocharis parvula doesn't seem to spread alot but it gets denser and denser in certain areas of the tank. For example it is very dense near the filter output but doesn't spread near the filre input. The best growth is exactly in the middle of the tank!

5. Some bundles of Eleocharis Parvula seems to have a good rooting system but others, mostly the ones affected by hair algae, seems to get plugged out very easily. 

P.S: I have increased my CO2 levels but maybe not enough and also I have increased my EI dosing so as to ensure adequate amount of nutrients e.g from 4 pumps to 5 pumps. Light levels were dropped from 48w to 24w and it seems that sometimes part of the tank is hit by direct sunlight which I took care of today.

Any advice people?

Thanks!


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## Jaap (13 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Anyone?????????????? Help please .........


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## CeeJay (13 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Hi Jaap



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> 1. Hair algae is observed to grow on the Eleocharis Parvula mostly situated in the four corners of the tank. I thought of water circulation but a 70 litre tank powered by a 900 L/h filter seems good enough to me.



It sounds like you have enough flow, if the manufacturers numbers are to be believed. Unfortunately they are not. Some filters output drop by as much as 50% when media is added. Circulation or the amount of CO2 appears to be the problem. Especially if you are getting algae in the corners. Try reconfiguring the flow if you can.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> 2. I have noticed a small patch of cyanobacteria (BGA). I don't know what to do with this.


This one is simple to deal with. Up your nitrate.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> 3. Hair algae grows on the glass.


This is definitely CO2 related, so you need to up your injection rate. This will also help with problem No.1.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> 4. The Eleocharis parvula doesn't seem to spread alot but it gets denser and denser in certain areas of the tank. For example it is very dense near the filter output but doesn't spread near the filre input. The best growth is exactly in the middle of the tank!



This indicates poor CO2 injection rate and/or circulation.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> 5. Some bundles of Eleocharis Parvula seems to have a good rooting system but others, mostly the ones affected by hair algae, seems to get plugged out very easily.



This indicates poor CO2 injection rate and/or circulation too. Especially as you have hair algae.



			
				Jaap said:
			
		

> P.S: I have increased my CO2 levels but maybe not enough


Everything is pointing to this.

Dropping your light levels was definitely the right thing to do while you get your tank back on track.
The only thing that bothers me is the fact that you have BGA. If you are dosing true EI levels then this really shouldn't be an issue. Maybe recheck your calculations.

You'll have to trim all the algae infected grass and clean the algae off the glass, but you will have to up your CO2 injection rate. 
Keep up with the water changes too. This all helps. 
Your grass will grow like a weed when you get your CO2 delivery and circulation right   
Check out page 8 of my 180l journal in my signature, you'll see what I mean.
Hang in there and let us know how you get on.


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## Jaap (1 Jan 2012)

*Re: New Tank - Brown Algae/Green Spot Algae/Thread Algae*

Hi,

this is the current sittuation of the tank, no growth, lots of hair algae and brown dead areas of the grass:
notice how in the middle of the tank the grass is the healthiest!





This is how CO2 gets distributed in the tank:





This is the bad hair algae:





This is the dead brown area of the grass:









What do you guys think?

Thanks.


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## spyder (1 Jan 2012)

I think maintenance. Everything could do with a good clean for starters. The yellowing could be a fert deficiency. You say the middle is the healthiest and probably recieves the best flow.

Do you not have a drop checker? How do you estimate co2 levels? 

I would go for good maintenance, remove as much algae as possible, give hairgrass a good prune, improve co2, easycarbo dosing and plenty of water changes. How many hours of light are you using now?

How are you ferting this tank? Edit.. Checked and it's EI, Can you explain how your mixing and dosing?


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## Jaap (1 Jan 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> I think maintenance. Everything could do with a good clean for starters. The yellowing could be a fert deficiency. You say the middle is the healthiest and probably recieves the best flow.
> 
> Do you not have a drop checker? How do you estimate co2 levels?
> 
> ...



I have a drop checker and it is on 2 bubble per second. The fish seem to be comfortable with the co2 levels.

I maintain the tank every Sunday. I remove all algae with credit card and toothbrush but I didn't remove any to show in the picture. I maintain this tank regularly so its something else because I remove tones of algae every week. I dosed Excell but my shrimp died so I stopped.

For EI I am using premixed solutions in bottles that I mixed based on Jame's Tank website and an electronic scale.

Thanks


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## spyder (1 Jan 2012)

If you are saying that is 1 weeks algae growth then you most certainly still have way too much light.

Looking at your tank it looks pretty deep. Deep tanks need more attention to flow, your flow may not be as good as you believe.


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## Jaap (1 Jan 2012)

I have 24w of light

The filter that I have is 900 L/h do you think I need a larger one?

thanks


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## GHNelson (1 Jan 2012)

Hi 
How long do you have the lights on?
hoggie


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## Jaap (1 Jan 2012)

7 hours....but the Eleocharis parvula doesn't seem to grow. If you see the right side of the tank it is not covered with grass...


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## GHNelson (1 Jan 2012)

Hi 
I would reduce your lighting to 5 hours...give the tank a clean then do a 75% water change.
You could benefit from a couple of Co2 indicators.
Place one at each end of the aquarium.The green dust algae usually appears in new set-ups.
I think you have a lack of flow distribution...thats why some plants are not growing.
Persevere for a few weeks doing small water changes.
Cheers
hoggie


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## GHNelson (1 Jan 2012)

Hi Jaap
Ive loaded your aquarium measurements on here :arrow:  http://blog.fluidsensoronline.com/calcu ... ive-index/
Comes up 81 litres....do the same then scroll down to dosing routines.
I know your dosing a different method.
Here it states for EI 40ml for Macro....40ml for trace.
hoggie


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## spyder (1 Jan 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> I have 24w of light
> 
> The filter that I have is 900 L/h do you think I need a larger one?
> 
> thanks



This may not be needed. You could try moving your lily pipe around to create different flow patterns around the tank or even try a spraybar on the back wall. You need to try and improve your co2 distribution and flow. I hear you on the unfortunate shrimp loss and liquid carbon but if it's killed them all, why stop dosing now? That's like locking the door after the cat has escaped.

I'm not sure if you've stumbled across Mark Evans's latest journal where he is using around 5 hour lighting period and getting great growth rates and no algae and this is with lowish flow. Don't make the mistake that plants need more and more light as you will end up with more and more algae. Shave it down to 5 hours for now, you can always tweaked it back up half hour at a time when the tank is balanced and stable. 

If you can rehome your fish for a few weeks you can turn up the gas without fear of killing anything, get the tank cleaned up and thriving then bring back the livestock. To be honest, I was feeling the same way about upping the gas in my 125l but I have, fish are fine and I have a good limey green DC instead of the dark emerald green I was getting. My bubble rate is uncountable so avoid assuming that 1 or 2 bps is enough for your tank, they all vary.


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## GillesF (1 Jan 2012)

Just a tip: place the diffuser at the other side, opposite the lily pipe. The bubbles will be pushed down by the current and  dissolve better. That's how Mr. Amano does it too by the way.


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## Jaap (1 Jan 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> Jaap said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I changed my photo period to 5 hours and moved the diffuser on the opposite side of the outflow lily pipe. 

Moving the diffuser doesn't seem to push the bubble down so I guess the outflow is not that strong.

What can be done if changing the positions of lilly pipes/diffuser doesn't work? I have the Hydor PRIME 30 External Aquarium Filter which goes through 900 L/h but its nearly 10 years old and I was thinking maybe its losing its power...should I go out and buy a new filter?


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## ghostsword (2 Jan 2012)

The tank does look on a sorry state, something really is amiss.

Hair algae thrives on the same conditions as most plants, just needs less to thrive. 

I would do following:
- trim the hairgrass
- double your ei dosing
- two wc a week, 50% each
- dose 2ml of easy carbo daily
- lower the light period to 5 hours a day
- get a nano koralia, you need flow

Optional: 
- get some snails, either nerites or ramshorns 
- don't feed the fish for a week, a lean period would be good, forcing the snails to eat something else such as algae

It may take a while but it can be done, just have patience.








___________________________


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## ceg4048 (2 Jan 2012)

Hi,
    Filamentous algal forms are not related to NPK shortfalls, but instead are correlated with CO2 shortfalls, which has been pointed out several times in the thread. Therefore there is no value in increasing the nutrient levels since CO2 uptake is required in order to make use of any additional nutrient load. The initial outbreak was triggered by the OP's use of high energy lighting. Once the plants began to suffer, the algal blooms tightened their grip so that even reducing the light intensity by 50% was not enough. Algal blooms often follow a downward spiral so that even when the conditions improve it is too late. The OP has to now improve conditions as well as to break the stranglehold and evict the algae, both of which are difficult to accomplish quickly.

The OP is therefore encouraged to significantly increase any combination of flow, gas injection rate and lowered lighting, at least on a temporary basis, to obtain better plant health.

 It's also unclear whether the glass has GSA or GDA but it looks like GDA which, if so, also indicates serious flaws in CO2 and flow distribution.

If this is GSA and not GDA, then the glass has to be cleaned vigorously and multiple large water changes per week (like 50% or more 2X-3X per week) have to be employed in addition to the CO2 injection increase. Don't forget to dose nutrients immediately after the water change. 

Adding more flow will always help.Old pumps in filters don't so much lose power, but the filter media becomes dirty and clogged, increasing friction and significantly reducing the flow throughput. I hesitate steering folks in the direction of spending more money, so perhaps a thorough cleaning of the media and removal of some of the media to help increase the flow might be a more economical solution.

Someone had also mentioned that all the tank inmates had died, and if that's so then there is every advantage in maxing the gas injection and in adding more Excel or whatever liquid carbon product is available, instead of adding more inmates.

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (2 Jan 2012)

Every time I had issues with algae in tanks I lowered light intensity, doubled EI and increased CO2, and the issues disappeared in a week or so. 

Only issue is that too much easycarbo on the water kills some moss and riccia, but apart from that with regular water changes, daily if needed, the algae spores get taken out.

But the lesson to take is that as ceg says, CO2 is more often than not the culprit. Either not enough, or too much light.


___________________________


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## Jaap (2 Jan 2012)

I will do the suggested changes and inform you.

I was wondering if I could use this electronic diffuser that I have and never used and connect it to my pressurized co2 tank:
http://www.ferplast.com/scheda_prodotto ... m_pagina=1


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## ceg4048 (2 Jan 2012)

Hi,
    There is no point using a fermentation systems, which delivers less CO2 and which is less controllable, if you already have a pressurized cylinder system. Simply increase the injection rate, but do so with caution if you have fish in the tank.

Hi Luis,
           Yes I understand that it's sometimes easier to use the shotgun approach. We know that these three things are the basic rules for being algae free and so it doesn't hurt, but it's better for the OP to see the root cause through to the end so that the concepts remain fixed in his mind. This avoid confusion. Filamentous algae is only ever CO2 related, and that a really important concept to grasp, know what I mean?

Cheers,


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## Jaap (2 Jan 2012)

I was saying to use the electronic diffuser/pump with my pressurized system for better delivery of the co2


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## ghostsword (2 Jan 2012)

Of course Clive, I completely understand the reason for using the right approach to meet a problem head on.  

I am lazy in just bombing the tank with ferts, doesn't hurt and even the fish are healthier.  The only plant I have that does not seem to like ferts is weeping moss, it turns brown, unless it is the high temperature. 

To the OP, regarding co2, just get a proper co2 setup, it will make your life easier. 


___________________________


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## Jaap (3 Jan 2012)

what do u mean a proper CO2 setup? It is a proper pressurized CO2 with a diffuser. The whole problem is the distribution of the CO2. I believe ceg and ghostsword have missunderstood my question. I have a pressurized CO2 setup, however in the link provided above there is a small electronic diffuser that acts as a pump where CO2 is pushed from one end into this electronic diffuser and pushed out of the other end of this electronic diffuser since it is also a pump.

Does that sound good? Forget about the DIY part of the kit I am talking about the grey diffuser that sits in the water.


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## ghostsword (3 Jan 2012)

OK, I got it wrong..  sorry..


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## ceg4048 (3 Jan 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> what do u mean a proper CO2 setup? It is a proper pressurized CO2 with a diffuser. The whole problem is the distribution of the CO2. I believe ceg and ghostsword have missunderstood my question. I have a pressurized CO2 setup, however in the link provided above there is a small electronic diffuser that acts as a pump where CO2 is pushed from one end into this electronic diffuser and pushed out of the other end of this electronic diffuser since it is also a pump.
> 
> Does that sound good? Forget about the DIY part of the kit I am talking about the grey diffuser that sits in the water.


Well, i mean, mate, if you had said that before then it would have helped us to focus and both Luis and I might not have misunderstood. When the link is clicked a picture of the entire assembly shows up. Also, no one really knows what an "electronic diffuser" is. On face value this appears to be a marketing gimmick. Is it considered "electronic" because it has a pump? Since neither Ghostworld nor I are familiar with this particular gadget it's difficult to judge whether it has any value.

I prefer to use an in-line external device such as the popular Up-Atomizer, the AM1000 or the more expensive Cal-Aqua inline reactor. That way the water coming into the tank is almost fully saturated with CO2.

In any case, I dug a bit more into the user manual of this system in your link and I can see now that the diffuser is not electronic at all. It's simply a plastic jug with a pump mounted on top. Theoretically, the CO2 being pumped into the plastic jug will have better mixing as it is directed into the outflow of the little pump as it finds its way out of the bottom of the jug through what looks like coarse filter material.

This should be a little better than blowing bubbles straight up and out of the tank, however, there is still the problem of having to distribute this CO2 rich water stream across the tank, so it's still not as good as an in-line device. Although, having said that, you don't have a filter with enough muscle to do justice to an in-line device anyway, so this device might be as good as it can get without spending a more money. Since you already have it then try it an see how you get on. Ultimately, you will still need to increase the injection rate, but this unit counts as having an extra pump so it will force CO2 enriched water down into the tank instead of up. You should also try using it without the filter material which will give better flow out of the plastic jug.  

Cheers,


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## Jaap (3 Jan 2012)

thanks for the replies. i have an inline atomizer but never used it. i shall install it immediately. however, if buying a new better filter is the ultimate solution then i will go with that. what do u think?


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## ceg4048 (3 Jan 2012)

Well, I'll always say YES! to bigger filters, no doubt whatsoever, especially when combined with an external atomizer (are you kidding me?). The thing is that I'm afraid your wife will object and insist that you buy something boring, like a bigger dishwasher instead. This would mean arguments, wouldn't it? I would then be blamed for marital discord and I don't want that on my conscience....

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (3 Jan 2012)

Buy the biggest filter you can afford, of a reputable brand, that is. Eheim and Fluval are good. JBL also is another contender, as I got a jbl profi e900 on the room and many times I need to check if it is still working, it is really silent.

CO2 is the most important thing to get right, and there are many ways to go about it, but the inline difuser with a powerful filter, with the the spraybar at the back pushing the co2 difused on the water forward is by far the best way.  

It may not be pretty, a green bar at the back, but it works.


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## Jaap (3 Jan 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Well, I'll always say YES! to bigger filters, no doubt whatsoever, especially when combined with an external atomizer (are you kidding me?). The thing is that I'm afraid your wife will object and insist that you buy something boring, like a bigger dishwasher instead. This would mean arguments, wouldn't it? I would then be blamed for marital discord and I don't want that on my conscience....
> 
> Cheers,



My dear friend I am not married and I work so I have my own money therefore no need to worry about spending money  However, thanks for your consideration  Back to business since I want this thing to work, I have trimmed the grass, installed the atomiser, lowered the photo-period to 5 hours and started dosing excel. I have removed all fish from the tank so nothing can go wrong. 

What do you think?


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## Jaap (3 Jan 2012)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Buy the biggest filter you can afford, of a reputable brand, that is. Eheim and Fluval are good. JBL also is another contender, as I got a jbl profi e900 on the room and many times I need to check if it is still working, it is really silent.
> 
> CO2 is the most important thing to get right, and there are many ways to go about it, but the inline difuser with a powerful filter, with the the spraybar at the back pushing the co2 difused on the water forward is by far the best way.
> 
> It may not be pretty, a green bar at the back, but it works.




What about tetratec?


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## ceg4048 (3 Jan 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> [...I have trimmed the grass, installed the atomiser, lowered the photo-period to 5 hours and started dosing excel. I have removed all fish from the tank so nothing can go wrong.
> 
> What do you think?


Yeah, I think it's a great start and you need to really crank the CO2 to high levels now that you don't have to worry about fish. The Excel should be dosed every day at about the same time that the gas is turned on - 1-2 hours or so prior to turning the lights on. You can then turn the gas off a few hours prior to turning the lights off.

If you adhere this procedure you should find that the dropchecker turns a light green or yellow just when the lights go on. I assume your dropchecker fluid is 4dkh? It's really important that the dropchecker is at least light green when the lights are turned on. A dark green or blue dropchecker at lights on is a bad sign. The most important time for CO2 is at lights on so even if the dropchecker turns from dark green to light green or yellow a few hours after lights on, the plants will still suffer. The very microsecond that the lights go on, the water must be saturated with CO2 as much as possible and as evenly as possible. 

You will then see almost immediate improvements. Also, when you perform the water changes, try to do them so that everything is done and new water is added before lights on. This will help to maximize CO2. You must still clean and scrub the tank clean though, and you can spot dose Excel on the rocks and hard scape while the water level is low but do not spot dose the plants with the Excel otherwise you are likely to do irreparable damage to the plant.

Cheers,


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## Jaap (4 May 2012)

Hello after a long time,

the problem still continues but that is because I have not tried to do much about the sittuation up until 2 weeks ago and here is what I did:

1. Installed the paintball co2 system with an UP atomizer under the filter intake
2. Daily addition of 20ml of Excell (tank is 80L)
3. Increased my Seachem Flourish dose from 1ml to 4ml so as to increase the Iron dosing to the recommended EI level
4. Worked up a new batch of NPK solution from dry salts to ensure "correct" dosing
5. Got a new filter with a flow of 1000 L/h
6. Removed the lilypipes that might have reduced flow and left the Fluval inflow and outflow
7. The lights are on for 5 hours a day
8. Weekly water change of more than 50%
9. Weekly maintenance of the filter
10. Manually remove hair algae which is sometimes impossible since it is suffocating the Eleocharis Parvula

I now see new growth but not much yet. The algae is not dead yet but it has stopped growing. 
This has been done for 8 days now should I change something?


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## Jaap (10 May 2012)

Should I go up from 24w to 48w and from 6hours per day to 8 hours per day?

Tha tank is 80L and 45cm tall.


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## sWozzAres (10 May 2012)

If your confident you have solved your algae issues then you may as well do a 3-4 day blackout to finally wipe out any visible algae. Then a few water changes to clean and remove any spores, then you should be set to go.

I wouldn't change lighting until you have a stable tank.


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## spyder (10 May 2012)

Increasing your lighting could put you back right where you started. With everything you want to make gradual adjustments. Add half hour for a couple of weeks etc. Doubling the light intensity and adding 2 hours is a huge increase.

Take it slowly otherwise your hard work could be ruined.


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## Jaap (10 May 2012)

OK....so the plan is to add half an hour each week until 6 hours become 8 hours....then we decide from there on...

The algae if not gone by all means but I see it is dying off and diminishing and I see new healthy growth of Eleocharis Parvula...

However isnt it a bit of low light 24w for a 45cm height 80L tank? It looks so little when compared to all those nice tanks out there


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## GreenGrow (8 Jun 2012)

I have had this problem with my old tank. i had to resort to periods of blackouts for 3 or 4 days with regular large water changes. this still did not help the situation. have rescaped the tank now so hopefully the thread and hair algae will not return. One possible cause of this algae could be inconsistent levels of CO2, if anyone knows a way to remove and prevent this algae then let me know!


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## Iain Sutherland (9 Jun 2012)

Jaap said:
			
		

> OK....so the plan is to add half an hour each week until 6 hours become 8 hours....then we decide from there on...
> 
> The algae if not gone by all means but I see it is dying off and diminishing and I see new healthy growth of Eleocharis Parvula...
> 
> However isnt it a bit of low light 24w for a 45cm height 80L tank? It looks so little when compared to all those nice tanks out there



this is a really bad idea, in no way should you increase your light until you have a clean, 'algae free' tank.  Its a common mistake to see improvement,get excited, add more light and the algae will come back stronger every time.

Dont worry about all the nice bright tanks out there, you can work towards that once you understand the basic principles which takes time. To help get rid of the algae that is left it would be worth cutting the hairgrass right back to substrate level, it will come back more healthy and cleaner. Stay at 6 hours, be anal with maintenance, ferts and WC's.  Remain consistent and you will reap the rewards mate.

*edit - just noticed quoted post is a month old    so this may no longer be relevant advise...
How goes it Jaap??


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## Jaap (21 Jun 2012)

Well no hair algae anymore! Some green dust algae. Didnt increase light intensity. Co2 is full on since i have no fauna. Growth is adequate but will do better now that the co2 is high and the EI dosing amounts have been increased!


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