# Do i need any more flow??



## hazeljane (18 Mar 2010)

HI all,

I have a 420 litre tank and have running a eheim 2080 with atomiser inline at one end through a spraybar,the jbl e1500 at the other end through a spraybar,a fluval 405 with purigen in flowing acroos the tank and 2 koralia 1 's,1 at each end. Do i need any more you think??


Thanks in advance   

Stu.


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## ghostsword (18 Mar 2010)

It seems enough flow ... 

The eheim 2080 moves 1700lth an hour, and the E1500 does 1500lth, and the fluval 405 at 1300lth so you have just over 10 times your tank per hour. 

Adding the Koralia's at each end, it may even be too much, in my opinion. 

What do you have on your tank that needs that much turn over?


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## ceg4048 (19 Mar 2010)

Hi,
    Assuming this is a typical well lit CO2 injected tank then your target flow rating for a 420L tank ought to be in the neighbourhood of 4200LPH, courtesy of the 10X rule. Exceeding this value is never a bad thing unless you have fish that are averse to the flow. The key is to distribute this flow in a cohesive manner. If the flow distribution is uneven you will waste a lot of that energy. 

Cheers,


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## hazeljane (19 Mar 2010)

Thanks ceg,
Yes it is well lit and im using pressurised c02.Im dosing EI method and flourish excel 25ml a day as ive had a prob with hair algae seem to got it under control now??

Going of the equipment ive listed how would you arrange these?? To see if it is what ive arranged??  

Ghostworld,

Ive got 30 rummie roses,50 cardinal tetras,10 congo tetras,a variety of bristlenoses 8 and 6 corys.The tetras seem to enjoy the flow as they always play in the flow.  




Cheers

Stu


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## ghostsword (19 Mar 2010)

hazeljane said:
			
		

> Ive got 30 rummie roses,50 cardinal tetras,10 congo tetras,a variety of bristlenoses 8 and 6 corys.The tetras seem to enjoy the flow as they always play in the flow.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Stu



Fantastic, it is always nice to see fish playing on the flow..  They do seem to have fun..


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## ceg4048 (20 Mar 2010)

hazeljane said:
			
		

> Thanks ceg,
> Yes it is well lit and im using pressurised c02.Im dosing EI method and flourish excel 25ml a day as ive had a prob with hair algae seem to got it under control now??
> 
> Going of the equipment ive listed how would you arrange these?? To see if it is what ive arranged??


Hiya Stu,
  My standard operating procedure on a tank that size is to have enough spraybar to run almost the length of the tank. I would absolutely have 2 inline diffusers, one fed from the 2080 and the other fed from the JBL. It's tough to get even CO2 distribution with a single diffuser/reactor on something this size. Now, remember that there is loss of flow due to restriction from the diffuser inlet. Assuming you use the standard 16/22mm filter tubing, you'd need a diffuser having 17mm inlet/outlet spuds in order to maintain flow integrity. That also means that the spraybar itself ought to have an inside diameter of no less than 16mm (these are optimal numbers - the world won't end if you break these rules  ).

So the bars are mounted along the back wall - here are a couple of images I use a lot to illustrate. can you see the direction of flow? As perfectly horizontal as possible. Now, I've never used Koralias and I know that many people mount them on either end pointing diagonally or at the tanks long axis, but if i did use them I would point them in exactly the same direction as the effluent of the spraybars. In this way the spraybar current is augmented. Always try to avoid collision of flow streams if you can help it. You can mount each in each of the corners at the top along the back wall to fit in the space not occupied by the spraybar, or if you have gaps in the middle of the spraybar length as I have you can mount them there. In any case I reckon you have plenty of flow rating, just use it properly and get that second inline diffuser if you can mate.











Cheers,


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## hazeljane (20 Mar 2010)

Hiya Ceg,

Was thinking  of getting another diffusor for the other filter or getting 2 new reactors and another bottle of c02 as i can get 6kg bottle for Â£30.Then both filters have their own feed of c02.Do you use the standard spraybars and join them together so it goes the full length of the tank with the filter outlets at each end??? What filters are you using??

Im using the eheim modular spraybars but not full length i can get add ons and make a full lenth one if that is the case i  prefer the spraybars then the lilypipes.With the eheim modular it is a smoky black colour and i think alot better than the old eheim green stuff on the eye.

Thanks for the reply and its a good read    

Thanks

Stu


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## ceg4048 (21 Mar 2010)

Hi mate,
            Yeah, I started out with the Eheim puke green set and then SuperColey1 turned me on to smoke gray Fluval pipes, so on that setup I had mounted the Fluvals together using the supplied short rubber hose. Because the Fluval pipes are simple you can add as many of the 20 (or so) inch pipes as you want to make the distance. In this case 4 pipes, 2 for each filter, did the trick. 

I used two 2180 thermofilters but I was still well below the optimum flow rating. That's why I had to go to the two 17mm spud Cal-Aqua diffusers which made a big difference. In your case you may not be marginal in flow as I was so you might save some money with less expensive reactors. The Cal-Aquas are hideously expensive. 

When using multiple reactors, it's always better to go with separate cylinders feeding separate regulators. No doubt about that mate, but that is an expensive option. Being a cheapskate, I just split the CO2 with a "Y" connector and lived with the annoyance of uneven pressure in the CO2 lines.

Cheers,


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## faizal (27 Apr 2011)

Clive,.....that is one amazing looking aquarium tank.    What make is it ?

Faizal


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## ceg4048 (27 Apr 2011)

Thanks mate, it's actually from Italy, an off-off-off brand called Technaqua. It's actually a little cheesy since the glass is very thin and the workmanship is not really that good (great gobs of silicone oozing from the joints) Despite all that I liked it because; A). It was cheap and B). the fitted hood has a clean look with large, easy maintenance flaps. During my apprenticeship at the Klingon "Bird-of-Prey" Space Academy I was instructed to rip out the stock lighting and install over 1/2 Kilowatt of T5 Compact Fluorescent + gull-wing reflectors, which achieved Supernova lighting levels reminiscent of Cygnus X-1 - where no man (or Klingon) has gone before...

Cheers,


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## Bobtastic (27 Apr 2011)

Sorry to hi-jack the thread but I was wonding if your Klingon High Chancellor would beable to tell me if this filter configuration would be suitable on my 240l tank? I wanted to avoid having to double up on the Co2 systems.


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## faizal (28 Apr 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Thanks mate, it's actually from Italy, an off-off-off brand called Technaqua. It's actually a little cheesy since the glass is very thin and the workmanship is not really that good (great gobs of silicone oozing from the joints) Despite all that I liked it because; A). It was cheap and B). the fitted hood has a clean look with large, easy maintenance flaps. During my apprenticeship at the Klingon "Bird-of-Prey" Space Academy I was instructed to rip out the stock lighting and install over 1/2 Kilowatt of T5 Compact Fluorescent + gull-wing reflectors, which achieved Supernova lighting levels reminiscent of Cygnus X-1 - where no man (or Klingon) has gone before...
> 
> Cheers,




  Actually the hood is what I like most about it !!!! Apart from your really really healthy looking plants,...of course.  That (the hood) was what attracted me most and  the fact that it looks really sturdy !!! I've never come across anything like it here in Malaysia. Have you made a journal of it? Love to see it Clive !!!!

How much light do you actually have in there ?   It looks like a highlight set up by the looks of those lights under the hood.


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## ceg4048 (28 Apr 2011)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Sorry to hi-jack the thread but I was wonding if your Klingon High Chancellor would beable to tell me if this filter configuration would be suitable on my 240l tank? I wanted to avoid having to double up on the Co2 systems.


Hi mate, 
   Yep, according to Worf, the double stacked spraybar should work, but, be careful to avoid collision. That means the streams should be either parallel or slightly divergent (i.e. the top bar pointed slightly upwards and the bottom bar pointed straight ahead or slightly downward. i suspect that the stronger of the two should use the top bar, but only experimentation can confirm this.


			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Actually the hood is what I like most about it !!!! Apart from your really really healthy looking plants,...of course. That (the hood) was what attracted me most and the fact that it looks really sturdy !!! I've never come across anything like it here in Malaysia. Have you made a journal of it? Love to see it Clive !!!!
> 
> How much light do you actually have in there ?  It looks like a highlight set up by the looks of those lights under the hood.


Hi Faizal,
   The hood is actually a bit flimsy. It's cheap plastic, but it does the job. The thin glass warps considerably when the tank is filled. I've measure a 1 inch bulge across the top mid section of the front+back panes when full. The hood has to be flexible to avoid shattering the panes. The tank sits on an inch thick rubber matting, which was thankfully included in the assembly. The bottom pane is also very thin and bulges downward as well. During water changes you can hear the hood creaking and moaning as it stretches to accommodate the bulging glass. I don't have any journals though. The total actual bulb rating is 524 watts PC.  

Cheers,


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## faizal (28 Apr 2011)

It's still a beautiful looking tank. And ,....you are too modest, my dear friend


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## Bobtastic (28 Apr 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Bobtastic said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would stangering the holes in the spray bar be sufficient do you think? I was planning on have the more powerful one at the bottom mainly cos that will have the furthest spread and I was planning on running the Co2 through that one. I'll be making a spray bar from clear acrylic tubing so would be able to alter the angle of the exit wholes if I like (ie setting them to spreay to the left/right or up/down).


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## ceg4048 (28 Apr 2011)

Yeah, staggering will be fine, but I really would not suggest that you change the exit angles. Fluid flow is a very tricky business. You can screw yourself very easily without realizing it. Like I show in the images above, the jet streams should all come out parallel and perfectly horizontal. When you start messing around with different angles you endanger the uniformity of flow. Any improvement over the standard pattern would be sheer luck quite frankly.

Cheers,


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## Bobtastic (29 Apr 2011)

Ok, I see! Thanks for that!


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## andy-mu (30 Aug 2011)

When I look at Clive's spray bar photo and the output, I know I've got a flow problem.
Problem is space and getting one of those big bad boys to pump that amount of water 
isn't feasible. I'll need to try the Koralia route just now I think. But definately need to 
get that flow up


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## Surya (1 Sep 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> that


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