# The Green Machine- a bit disappointed.



## Sacha

I recently went to Wales for a few days, and on the drive back to London I decided to stop off in Wrexham to check out the Green Machine. 

To be honest the place is nothing special. They had two large planted tanks, but they weren't exactly spectacular. Then about 6 or 7 smaller ADA tanks, mainly with shrimp and smaller tetras, but again- the layouts aren't any more impressive than the stuff I've seen at Aquatic Design Centre. 

Also I was completely ignored while I was in the shop- they were busy re- arranging and organising the store, and I had to go into the office to ask for some assistance. Having said that, once I had got their attention I had a ten minute discussion with one of the guys who worked there. 

Anyway, all in all- not exactly what I was expecting. The tanks at ADC in Great Portland St are more impressive and better maintained. And there are many more of them. I guess TGM are focussing more on their internet business these days?


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## nybraby

I have never been to the store but have dealt with on the phone many times and always been really helpful.


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## James D

They're always very helpful and will chat for ages once you get talking. I agree the place is starting to look a bit shabby, I believe they are trying to address this though. If you're going to be selling all the high end stuff like ADA you need a much smarter store to show it off, I haven't been to ADC but I have seen photos of Viktor's awesome place which should be the benchmark.


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## Tim Harrison

It'd be interesting to know how tight the margins are in this business...I'm guessing that they're pretty tight and store rebuilds can be V expensive, but from what I've seen on video GM is perhaps not the destination store it once was.


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## Andy Thurston

Troi said:


> It'd be interesting to know how tight the margins are in this business...I'm guessing that they're pretty tight and store rebuilds can be V expensive, but from what I've seen on video GM is perhaps not the destination store it once was.


Too tight to sponsor the forum anymore
Tgm margins can't be that tight look at their prices of compared to other retailers. 

I was going to drive down from yorkshire and have a look but i dont think i'll bother now, at least until after the refit.
Thanks for the heads up sacha


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## NatureBoy

Sacha said:


> the layouts aren't any more impressive than the stuff I've seen at Aquatic Design Centre


 Do they have to be more impressive? Did they ever say they were guaranteed to be more impressive than what is clearly a flag ship aquatic specialist in the heart of london?  Clearly you visited them in a bit of limbo moment. I'd rather hear what a local would have to say

I've never visited but I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Did you buy anything after the 10 minute chat?


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## Sacha

I had just heard so much about them, and they didn't live up to their reputation- that's all. Why is my experience any less valuable to a local's? I'm just telling you what I saw with my own two eyeballs.


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## Lewis G

I think what he means is that a local would have the benefit of visiting often, and therefore knows what the store is usually like.

That's a shame about TGM though,  I heard great things. Was Nature's Chaos any good?


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## jolt100

I had similar experience on recent visit. Too busy with one other customer, no prices on anything, finished up walking out after 30 mins without buying anything when I had diverted especially to get some plants. Shame, stock looked 2nd rate, not as good as previous visits, I wouldn't  recommend a special visit, or even a detour.


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## matt

I've never been into there store,but I have orderd off them three times now and here is my account with dealing with them.

First time was a couple of years ago now,ordered plants turned up in perfect order was very happy

Second time was about six months later from my first order with them,ordered plants and a few other bits and bobs.It arrived a week later and one of the plants I had ordered did not turn up,also some plant feed I orderd was ment to be 500ml but was sent 250ml.After a quick phone call they were very apologetic and a few days later received said plant the 500ml of plant feed and even a freebie "sorry for the mess around" Anubis on a small bit of bog wood,happy days

Third time was november last year,orderd £150 of plants,nine days later nothing.Made the phone call to be told they didn't know anything about the order (in not what I would call a very polite manner either) and the person in charge of online orders would not be in until the afternoon and I'd get a call back later,fine not a problem.24 Hours later still no call back,so I phoned again explained again what had happened and I was still waiting for a call back,the only words that I heard from the other end of the phone was "Hang on" the phone was then placed on the side and for the next 5 minutes all I could here was people talking in the background,then the phone was picked up off the side and I was hung up on.I phoned back and it's fair to say I was not very happy,but the chap who I spoke to this time was the guy who sorted the online orders out and again he was very apologetic said the problem was somthing to do with the ordering system at there end and everything would be sent out first thing next week and even another freebie as an sorry,cool.
The following monday get a phone call from tgm,very sorry but some of the plants you orderd are no longer available can we send you some alternative such and such plants which are pretty much the same as the ones you wanted and they will be sent wednesday and with you friday,ok what ever just send the bloody things already
Friday comes,package arrivesopen with bated breath but something is not right,not enough plants Im missing at least 3 some have been sent twice some not at all and the alternative plants were not even the ones I was told they would be.Plus they were in p**s poor condition, most had broken stemes and rotting leaves
Oh yeah and no free gift either
Anyhow sent an nice emailwas told again very sorry will be rectified,it wasn't and I will never give them a penny of my money again.

Rant over.


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## Piece-of-fish

All i know it is extremely difficult to maintain a 100% feedback. We are deeling with perishable items here especially in regards of plants. I am sure any online NA supplier would be on top of their service with dry goods or advice but give the guys a break with live plants. The pricing policy is a whole different story 
Also i am sure they are trying to perform to the best they can. These days reputation is everything.


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## Iain Sutherland

Think this is a case of TGM were once a minority specialty store, now there are dozens of alternatives offering the same product at a more competitive price point.

Sorry ed, restaurants, bars supermarkets etc are also trading perishable items, if the product is no good don't send it. With a perishable item business wastage is a cost that must be factored in to selling price. If they can't move the products they have before they are past best then put them on offer before they diminish...  

When I see the likes of greenaqua and other Ada flagships I want to visit, i no longer feel that way about TGM as i don't see that self promotion of excellence any longer.... Just self promotion of 'world renowned aquascaper James Findley' 





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaap

I am very sorry to hear bad experiences of people in the hobby.

I order to Cyprus a few plants with TGM and they sent them to me twice because a couple of plants melted along the way and to be honest it wasn't their faul but the post office fault.

I went all the way from Cyprus to ADC aquatics, liked the place, liked the tanks but it seems no-one noticed me in the shop. I was happy to see all these tanks with plants for the first time in my life so I didn't care much that no-one paid any attention to me. I guess if I was a customer I wouldn't be happy. I also asked if I could phone him to put an order to be shipped to Cyprus but he declined my offer which was his choice I guess.

Most important thing in this hobby is knowledge and the sharing of information. If you walk into a store then the people working there should help you out as much as they can and give you their full attention unless other customers need help as well. Its a shame if certain shops don't do that.

In my opinion though TGM are very helpful and ADC is a very nice shop with nice tanks...haven't seen anything better than that but yet again I haven't seen much!


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## sciencefiction

I ordered just once from them last year some sand for one of my tanks. No sign of the order for 2 weeks. I called them. They apologized and said they had an issue on their side and it wasn't sent. I eventually received it in about 3 and a half weeks in total.  I wasn't in a hurry then so it didn't bother me but if someone was it wouldn't have been too nice.

Apart from that I sometimes understand the lack of attention in fish shops. The guy that owns our local one is almost always alone I suppose due to the crisis and he's torn between chatty customers when it seems he's got a lot of work to do and other waiting customers to attend. I know it's not our problem as customers but probably because I like to mind my own business it doesn't bother me. I just stare at the tanks like a small kid in Disneyland for the most part until I decide what I want.

But yes, it's nice to have a chat with a fish lover from time to time so it depends whom I happen to chat with in fish shops. It does aid in buying something you never came for . But in some shops here certain stuff members can't even distinguish between the types of snails they have.


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## matt

Piece-of-fish said:


> We are deeling with perishable items here especially in regards of plants.  give the guys a break with live plants.



I'm sorry but no,If a retailer is offering goods via a mail order sevice reguardless of what is being sent I expect top quality or very close to it,not a "well we sent something"attitude.



Piece-of-fish said:


> Also i am sure they are trying to perform to the best they can. These days reputation is everything.



This time there "best"was not good enough,and yes reputation is everything so maby they should have done better.


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## Andy Thurston

Dont you just hate second rate service, retailers should be kissing but not making lame excuses


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## Piece-of-fish

Ye, certainly plants have to be best shape to ship. But lots can happen in transit. Its very interesting to hear such a bad feedback. Would have thought they have to be on top with tough competition these days. We need greenaqua branch in London [DOUBLEPOST=1402055991][/DOUBLEPOST]Its weird that they send different plants without asking first I must admit. Is their main customer just an average plant guy who does not care what he gets? Hmm.


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## Tim Harrison

Iain Sutherland said:


> When I see the likes of greenaqua and other Ada flagships I want to visit, i no longer feel that way about TGM as i don't see that self promotion of excellence any longer.... Just self promotion of 'world renowned aquascaper James Findley'Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Do I detect a slight hint of irony Maybe Wrexham's Takashi Amano has spent all TGM's profits on 'gently caressing' Amazonia in to 'world renowned' aquascapes


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## James O

Iain Sutherland said:


> i don't see that self promotion of excellence any longer.... Just self promotion of 'world renowned aquascaper James Findley'



Exactly.  All the videos telling us how 'game changing', world first', back slap, back slap.........  Seen better here 

There's just no excuse for bad service these days.  If there's an issue the seller should be contacting the buyer before sending out, not the other way round.  Especially when even chains like MA & Pets at home have some good tanks on display and surprisingly good plant/fish stock at some stores.

Saved me a visit anyway


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## Lee Sweeting

I visited TGM a little while ago, mainly to play with hardscape in the sand pit, and also to check the store out. A little while after this visit i ordered a load of plants, I was told when i ordered that they had some of the plants in stock but some of the others would need to be ordered. When i received my order i could tell which had come from TGM stock, and which had come straight from tropica. The TGM stock plants were in a terrible state. When you are paying a premium you expect to have top quality plants and service, and i just don't feel as though that was provided... So i don't really use them now.


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## Pedro Rosa

I was a little reticent to write here because being portuguese i certainly don't buy anything at TGM.
But i use to see their videos and the promotion of the owner seems to be far more important to them then the promotion to the store. I remember to find that very strange on the first videos, then i got used to it 

... and saying that they invented those plastic things to get substrate higher at the background is something very weird...


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## Iain Sutherland

Piece-of-fish said:


> We need greenaqua branch in London


im in, start looking for a venue ed


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## Andy Thurston

I'd get on a train to see that shop


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## Tim Harrison

Me too...


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## Samjpikey

I ordered some plants from TGM Monday morning , they arrived Wednesday . 
Plants are the best I've ever had , I left them on their pots till Friday night and they looked no different . 
For me I shall be using them again 
Cheers 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

To be fair they did win this, but from the comments here, it does seem a bit hit and miss.





Personally I've found that FreshWaterShrimp have always delivered in terms of quality, value for money, and customer service.


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## Andy Thurston

I think you will find good quality plants from all the sponsors that sell them. I only use tgm if everyone else doesn't have what i need. I dont do hit or miss, i can use ebay for that


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## MikeC1408

For plants you won't get much better than buying from Aqua Essentials. Order before 4 and they are there the next day, none if this 3 days later.


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## viktorlantos

Business is always hard. We do expect the best and shops try their best too but this is a small market. And we not just getting hit by that, but from may til september the hobby is sleeping. Everyone is out on holiday mainly outdoor activities, so you usually see frozen shops in these months. Some owners redo their tanks, interriors some cut down all cost to survive or prepare for the rush season.

Then live plants which also strugle in this season. 

I do not know what happening there, but looks like they try to fix things.

I usually recommend for all hobbiest to be out, relax these days and the industry will wake up with dozens of stunning things at autumn. I know interzoo was full with new things.

On live plants when the weather is getting too warm i recommend personal pick up usually.


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## sanj

I have always found TGM very welcoming. Nobody else ever offered me coffee or tea and encourage to relax and look around the store. I know things have changed. Last time I was there which was probably in February they were getting rid of the fish tanks, I understood the reasoning and I dont think it was a big part of their business although at the same time it is somthing that for me makes it whole. Yet who am I to talk I have never bought their fish, but only aquascaping goods and plants.

If the business is going through change then I dont expect everything to be as usual. 

This is an independant store, two people who put thier life into this venture and it has been a flagship for many years, I hope it continues to play a key part in the hobby.


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## Sacha

Offering you tea and coffee?! That's definitely not the shop I went into.


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## sanj

I dont know what happened or what was going on the day you visited, but yes everytime i have been which has been many since 2008 or 2009 (I cant remember) Jim or Mark always offer you a cuppa. 
I dont know maybe they were not all in or there was an order crisis, I dont know. First impressions are important and unfortunately it was not the experiance you expected, but a business can have an off day and they are human beings behind it.

BTW you only mentioned two main display tanks, there have always been three large tanks. There is one similar to my tank which is somthing like 7-8ft long and 3ft deep, the squarish one that is 5ft by 5ft and the long 10ft by 2ft.


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## Sacha

The long 10x2 was empty I'm afraid- it had been stripped down completely and looked like they were gonna scrap it. 

There was a full house that day, about 5 members of staff. Only two customers (me and my mum) and as I said we weren't even looked at or asked "can I help?" 

The place basically looked like it was closing down. 60-70% of the tanks empty, the others not very well maintained.

Maybe they're just planning a major re- fit.


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## Lee Sweeting

Theres defiantly mixed reports, i visited early this year for the first time, and to be honest no one even came over to ask if i needed any help. I was pretty much ignored. No cups of tea were offered. To be honest i didn't think they were very helpful at all.


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## sanj

> We need greenaqua branch in London



Meh... London, everything is London centric, it might aswell be a seperate state. I think Middle of the country is in dire need and anyway it is within reasonable access of most of the country.... ummm oooh how about Coventry


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## Sacha

I put a thread on here a few weeks ago about a £3000 fish in ADC. and they sold one recently for £7000. That's why the high- end fish stores are London- centric. London is where you will find the filthy- rich sheiks and oligarchs who will spend £7000 on a fish. With rent being so so expensive in central london, they need to make a huge amount of money to keep going.


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## tim

sanj said:


> Meh... London, everything is London centric, it might aswell be a seperate state. I think Middle of the country is in dire need and anyway it is within reasonable access of most of the country.... ummm oooh how about Coventry


Carry on like that you'll be sent to Coventry


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## X3NiTH

Did anyone else fill in TGM's Online Questionnaire, because if you did you got a very big hint as to where they want to take the business.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

X3NiTH said:


> Did anyone else fill in TGM's Online Questionnaire, because if you did you got a very big hint as to where they want to take the business.



Elaborate


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## X3NiTH

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Elaborate



For those that didn't fill in the questionnaire, the crux was TGM asked if you would be happy to pay money to watch James Findley Aquascaping videos.


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## Sacha

LOL


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## James O

sanj said:


> Meh... London, everything is London centric, it might aswell be a seperate state. I think Middle of the country is in dire need and anyway it is within reasonable access of most of the country.... ummm oooh how about Coventry



UKAPS members map show 271 members in Ireland, Scotland, and northern England.  But there's 305 just in Southern England.   [DOUBLEPOST=1402255419][/DOUBLEPOST]





X3NiTH said:


> For those that didn't fill in the questionnaire, the crux was TGM asked if you would be happy to pay money to watch James Findley Aquascaping videos.




Pay to see something I get for free from the grandmaster Amano, himself......Among others!  Haha they've got to be joking.  Anyone would think he invented aquascaping


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

X3NiTH said:


> For those that didn't fill in the questionnaire, the crux was TGM asked if you would be happy to pay money to watch James Findley Aquascaping videos.



Pay per view... Cheeky..!


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## Sacha

For such a successful Aquascaper, he doesn't have much of an online presence. Yes, he writes for PFK. But why is he not on the largest aquascaping website in the uk? Have a google of George Farmer, and he is all over the internet giving advice and joining in on discussions. Same with Tom Barr. James Findley just doesn't participate in any online discussion... I think the reason that the likes of Tom Barr and George Farmer became such well- respected figures is partly because they were fully engaged with the community. As opposed to just asking us for money for their expertise...


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## Mr. Teapot

I think his tanks are quite nice and really like his shallow tanks. Probably all down to being let down by expensive, bad PR or marketing advice… and taking a back seat in how he's seen online.

I've only been into this hobby a year so and wouldn't know if a tank passes muster but I've seen his scape at Charterhouse aquatics and thought it was very good.


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## Andy Thurston

He could be the best aquascaper in the world but if he keeps sending substandard goods out to the customers he wont have many customers for long


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## James O

Mr. Teapot said:


> I've only been into this hobby a year so and wouldn't know if a tank passes muster but I've seen his scape at Charterhouse aquatics and thought it was very good.



Has he been back to rejig it?  I was most disappointed by it when I saw it, especially when compared to some on ukaps and other sites (though they had only been open a few weeks).  There's a better one at one of my local independent retailers (no ADA this and ADA that either) .  Maybe because they seem so sure they're setting trends and breaking new ground but not looking what yer average bod with a planted tank is now capable of.

Has TGM entered any comps?


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## pepedopolous

I wonder if there's any connection between Charterhouse Aquatics starting to stock ADA products and TGM now shifting down a gear or three...?


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## Pedro Rosa

Sacha said:


> For such a successful Aquascaper, he doesn't have much of an online presence. Yes, he writes for PFK. But why is he not on the largest aquascaping website in the uk? Have a google of George Farmer, and he is all over the internet giving advice and joining in on discussions. Same with Tom Barr. James Findley just doesn't participate in any online discussion... I think the reason that the likes of Tom Barr and George Farmer became such well- respected figures is partly because they were fully engaged with the community. As opposed to just asking us for money for their expertise...



So right...


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## James O

Prices seem roughly comparable.  Slightly dearer for charterhouse but that's to be expected being in Central London.  Maybe most of the customers are down this way and buy from a shop where they can easily view the (very expensive) products?


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## Sacha

Stean Street is in central London now? :s


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## Sacha

I still need to get down to the charterhouse showroom.


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## James O

Sacha said:


> Stean Street is in central London now? :s


15min by bike from Westminster.  Geography means nothing to me only travel time   Driving the width of Arizona and the length of California in a couple of days has permanently skewed my geographical spacial awareness/reasoning

Anyhoo, stean street is more central london than Wrexham


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## Mr. Teapot

Sacha said:


> I still need to get down to the charterhouse showroom.



I thought the Charterhouse display room was a nice touch from a mainly online retailer. I was working only a short distance along the towpath when I wondered along one lunchtime. Marine focus with a few planted tanks, but as I said, I rather liked the Findley creation (I'd say it wasn't worth your while to make a special visit). Made me consider a little salty tank for a few days. I reckon the Aquatic Design Centre is a much better London option for planted tanks - there's a really nice display down in the basement with lots of emerged growth spilling out the top and some nice nano tanks in the window.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Im going to pop into TGM on my way back from newquay. 1st week of July, not sure which day yet.

See how we get on.


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## James O

Will you report back?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

James O said:


> Will you report back?


 Nah


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## James O

Photos too


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## Brian Murphy

You just can't beat Aquaessentials on price, quality and shipping  Hard to compete with that tbh


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## Mr. Teapot

I've just got back from a lunchtime visit to the Aquatic Design Centre if anyone is interested in seeing some pics?


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## Tim Harrison

Absolutely...


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## Mr. Teapot

Hot off the press, lunchtime today:


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## James O

Looks better than when I visited


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## Brian Murphy

Brian Murphy said:


> You just can't beat Aquaessentials on price, quality and shipping  Hard to compete with that tbh



Plus they stay fresher because they store them hydrophonically, therefore staying in their emmersed form longer before you receive them ..... only way to sell plants imo .... look at them waterfall thingys you get in PAH , yeah if your selling at a high turnover daily .... but them things cant nourish a plant !


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Brian Murphy said:


> Plus they stay fresher because they store them hydrophonically, therefore staying in their emmersed form longer before you receive them ..... only way to sell plants imo .... look at them waterfall thingys you get in PAH , yeah if your selling at a high turnover daily .... but them things cant nourish a plant !


What commission you on?


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## BigTom

That top ADC tank is lovely.


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## James O

I retract my previous statement with apologies. I thought you visited charterhouse. My bad


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## Mr. Teapot

I've got a meeting not too far away from Charterhouse later in the week. I'll try and get a couple of pics of the showroom… lets hope it doesn't get me thinking about a marine nano tank again!


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## Sacha

Hehe Mr. Teapot, i was there today too. Probably around the same time as you in fact.


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## Piece-of-fish

To be honest there is no shop in this country which is worth visiting for an aquascaper. For planted aquarist maybe. Kind of surprising with strong economy and higher buying ability. 
Charterhouse is not worth a visit sorry. Been there. Nothing a scaper with a year of experience couldnt do. 
Sad.


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## sanj

I think people have got used to quite high standards, so it has become harder to impress people who have a reasonable amount of experience . You only have to see the progression in competition entries over the last decade.


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## Pedro Rosa

Talking about nice shops, do you guys mind if i put a video i made for my aquascaping shop in Portugal?  I'm not the owner nor do i have any commercial intention (it's in Portugal!!!) but i think that it's a very good concept of shop (like other "ada style" shops we see by Viktor or in Poland...)


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## Andy D

I would like to see it.


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## Tim Harrison

I would as well...I think this thread is taking an interestingly positive turn...


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## Pedro Rosa

Here it goes...
Better in HD, as always...


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## tim

Piece-of-fish said:


> To be honest there is no shop in this country which is worth visiting for an aquascaper. For planted aquarist maybe. Kind of surprising with strong economy and higher buying ability.
> Charterhouse is not worth a visit sorry. Been there. Nothing a scaper with a year of experience couldnt do.
> Sad.


If only freshwater shrimp had a bigger showroom  That guy there is capable of great things


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## Andy Thurston

Come on Viktor wheres the vid of your shop


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## Pedro Rosa

Ada Poland, video by Norbert Sabat...

[DOUBLEPOST=1402350464][/DOUBLEPOST]Viktor, hope you don't mind it but we're watching good examples of stores 

Not about a shop but about a great work concept at GreenAqua


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## Tim Harrison

Great video...but 1st one 1:19 in...
Noooo...
...Noooo...
There's nothing inspirational or harmonious about white socks and sandals...
Noooo...


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## Andy Thurston

I bet its easy to spend a fortune in all those shops pedro. Ukpas european tour anyone?


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## James O

How about a ukaps store


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## Tim Harrison

Seriously though from what I've read on this thread and the likes of Pedros videos the industry seems to be turning a corner in that the most successful businesses seem to be on-trend with the zeitgeist in aspirational lifestyle. I keep expecting to open Elle Decoration to be faced with the likes of Takashi Amanos huge tank...no white socks though


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## James O

Elle Decoration, my guilty pleasure.

  I think the design we're after is Apple Store + water........iAquarium!?!?


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## viktorlantos

It's interesting to see the growing examples without white socks  However i have to add that keeping up pro scapes in a showroom is extremely difficult, so i understand why there are general displays in most places. Shops need to turn themself to a boutique, thats the current trend. This need big investment larger staff and if this not thinked over carefully it could be overkill for many. There was a great thread in the past that you could offer help to any shop. We use this sometimes in my country wher we have around 15-20 displays.

The white sock contest  was just like that. Pure fun with the experienced community. And the result is over on our expectations.

But i agree without great displays and eye catching things we give no reasons to visit. For everything else theres the home delivery


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## James O

Seems we need to borrow Amano's midnight pixies that keep his Sumida Tower tanks so perfectly.  Poor sods spend all night upside down in water trimming and vacuuming 

Tanks do look nice though 

Love the scapers scapes idea!  It's great to see other peoples scapes on here, but to see them in the flesh, at one convenient location.......I'd travel for that.


[DOUBLEPOST=1402384622][/DOUBLEPOST]





viktorlantos said:


> But i agree without great displays and eye catching things we give no reasons to visit. For everything else theres the home delivery



And if you can't master home delivery........?


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## Martin in Holland

Troi said:


> Great video...but 1st one 1:19 in...
> Noooo...
> ...Noooo...
> There's nothing inspirational or harmonious about white socks and sandals...
> Noooo...



I'm not even sure if he is wearing socks...could be his white skin ...


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## Tim Harrison

Could be...I've heard they don't get any sun in Eastern Europe because it's always winter...


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## viktorlantos

We can talk about white socks but til they do scape which not sucks i am ok


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## Mr. Teapot

As promised a couple of weeks ago, pictures of Findley's scape at Charterhouse . I have to say, I was a little disappointed this time - its either gone down hill or I've got an awful lot more picky over the past year… anyway here it is, good, bad or indifferent:

They also had one of the super-duper-jet filters under the stand - looks like its made out of a piece of nuclear reactor. looks quite stylish in real life.


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## James O

It was pretty pants when I visited just after opening tbh.  Dull _and_ overgrown? At least the algae is gone now 

Maybe it's a lack of aftercare, but I'm only counting 3 plants. I've got more varieties of anubias growing in one tank than he has species.  It looks like there is some sort of scape buried in there.

They should tear it down and let mr Farmer scape it up!


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## Mr. Teapot

I have to agree James. When I first saw this tank I was only just getting into this hobby - just shows how horizons change. It's a shame because the space they've created could hold some great tanks showcasing all sorts of experts in their field. Examples of their work for enthusiasts to learn from. Shame really. Even the marine tanks left me cold this time.

Love to see a Farmer scape in there! And a Barr, Amano, Knott, Sabat, Lantos… just imagine a showroom full of all masters work in one place.


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## James O

Its a great space.  I was a little underwelmed by the marine stuff as well.  There were two bonkers long tanks in the back left of the show roomthat looked interesting, a tall tank with jellyfish and a nice hardscape behind the 'reception' desk.

At least _these_ guys have mastered online/postal service.  No bad reports that I hear of.


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## Andy Thurston

> They should tear it down and let mr Farmer scape it up!


Definitely 


> Love to see a Farmer scape in there! And a Barr, Amano, Knott, Sabat, Lantos… just imagine a showroom full of all masters work in one place.


Proper scapers, if they all did a scape in the same place, anywhere in the uk i would have to travel to see them


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## Piece-of-fish

A very wrong plant selection for a shop display aquarium. I bet they are dreaming nightmares about the stems  
You want it to look good more or less all the time if its the only planted in the shop so strong middground with occasional slower growing stems at the back. Replanting the stems, not leaving them cut. etc. etc. And much less light! Been there once and was not impressed at all. The ADA tank was just trimmed so could not judge it.


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## James O

Big clown said:


> Proper scapers, if they all did a scape in the same place, anywhere in the uk i would have to travel to see them



 For that I'd travel pretty much anywhere in the country.  It'd be a pilgrimage site for the faithful masses   The store that hosted those tanks........oh the possibilities!!!!  

An isle for each major brand, an little stepped seating amphitheatre style demo area (inc. projector for video linkup of demos abroad), tanks displayed against black walls with plenty of room between tanks and bench seating like an art gallery (very restful & contemplative with no reflections) and a screen nearby the with the build video........


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## James D

Actually that scape looked really nice when it was set up (here), unfortunately the plants are obscuring what was a really nice iwagumi, as Piece of Fish says though, maybe not the right plant choice in the long term. I'm not sure where this negativity towards James is coming from, he's a really nice bloke who loves his aquascaping just like the rest of us.


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## Edvet

James O said:


> An isle for each major brand, an little stepped seating amphitheatre style demo area (inc. projector for video linkup of demos abroad), tanks displayed against black walls with plenty of room between tanks and bench seating like an art gallery (very restful & contemplative with no reflections) and a screen nearby the with the build video


 And 95 of the 100 visitors only want a black  molly or a gup, or some fishfood, Hard to keep your business "above water"


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## Ady34

The problem with all walk in stores nowadays is simple....the internet! 
We have high standards so want the top end well maintained well stocked beautifully laid out shops to wander into and travel to, but to do this you need to charge top dollar. The mass of internet stores now offering very competative and quality merchandise makes buying from a store financial suicide for most hobbyists inturn making everything tighter for display stores. Obviously it can be done as Victors store in Budapest and the store Pedro visits in Portugal illustrate, but i imagine you need to be exceptionally passionate and driven to make it work. The problem lies when you do neither well, poor internet service and average displays, but high prices = disaster. Such a shame to hear about TGM as everytime i visited it was always worth the 6hr round trip and i always got a cuppa or two and a lot of time with the staff.....but again the price you pay was high and now there are lots of very good, cheaper alternatives. I also feel expectations are much higher nowadays, especially with the likes of UKAPS and many of the world class scapes presented here, its harder to drop a jaw and utter omg to many of us.


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## James O

3 new 'scapes from TGM.......

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/articles/news/escarpment-aquascape-final-shots

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.co...-stones-aquascape-hardscape-planting-complete

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/articles/news/pebbles-huge-aquascape-planting-complete


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## X3NiTH

1. Cracking stuff, love the negative space on the right, that monster bunch of Anubia and the moss grotto.

2. Lol

3. I think we'd all love a tank like that.


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## Iain Sutherland

X3NiTH said:


> 2. Lol


haha 1 and 3 are both lovely, especially 3!! Id love a long and low....
Really dont get whats going on with 2... must of been out drinking the night before, it feels really awkward.


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## James O

It should be hard to screw up any tank when you have a shop full of top quality gear to choose from.........

Instructions to replicate no.2:

1) Go into cupboard and fetch box of leftover hardscape rubbish
2) Empty box into tank


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## X3NiTH

Lol, I might be wrong but I see No.2 as a response to this thread on UKAPS, but done with a bit of tongue in cheek.


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## James O

Hopefully no claims of 'boundaries being pushed' 'thinking outside the box' etc etc just decent free vids......


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## Vinkenoog1977

X3NiTH said:


> Lol, I might be wrong but I see No.2 as a response to this thread on UKAPS, but done with a bit of tongue in cheek.



First thing I thought when I saw the title of the scape: he must roam this forum. LOL


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## Martin in Holland

They don't do it for me....I've seen better once from them, but maybe my eyes are to spoiled with all the fish tank candy


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## Pedro Rosa

Don't really know if James is worried about this thread but the possible response should be number 1! It's a GREAT aquascape and gives a feeling of true healthy nature.
We should comment on the bad but also on the very good stuff he makes for aquascaping!
Really love it.

Number 2 ... can be a surprise when plants grow... let's wait.


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## Sacha

My original post was never intended to be a personal criticism of anyone in particular. Was just saying that I experienced awful customer service in the shop, and I was very underwhelmed by the tanks I saw there. Not meaning to have a dig at the man himself!


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## James O

I don't think it's been taken that way Sasha 

When you position yourself as the face of a company criticism tends to fall on you. The videos are very much 'Findlay' centric, but that's fine as he's a talented aquascaper.  The problem occurs when reality falls short of the spin/hype.  And that problem falls fairly and squarely at the feet of those creating the spin/hype.


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## Testsubjec

I made the trip from Barnsley to TGM and my personal experience of TGM was that they are very expensive, compared to other retailers. However, that being said, as soon as I walked in the shop one of the sales support guys started chatting with me and was very friendly and offer me a cup of coffee and genuinely had time for me. I would agree that TGM do seem to be focusing a lot more on their internet sales as their show room was a little sparse and could do with sprucing up a little. The planted tanks which they had including the ADA ones where really eye catching but again, if you were making the trip to have a good look at what they had I feel you would be disappointed.

I certainly won't be making the visit again.


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