# Where to start to create this style of scape?



## Epiphyte (6 Feb 2021)

I've been looking for inspiration and I love this style of scape, especially this one, Yi Ye's "Metempsychosis".






I'd like something like this, rooty type structures etc. Perhaps id like to make it a little more rocky so I can use some of my epiphytes such some of the smaller Anubias and Buces.

I assume some soil in the centre sloping up to the edges, leading down to a gravely foreground? Put some rocks down the lay the wood on top?

I know this scape is probably in a huge tank and I will be putting mine in an ADA 75p (750x450x450) so I will be size constrained, but is it possible?


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## alto (7 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> but is it possible?


Yes, especially if you always view the tank through a wide angle lens 

Did at least find dimensions
120cm x 50cm x 50cm


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## alto (7 Feb 2021)

Look for “Forest aquascapes” 
It’s very much about selecting and then refining the hardscape materials, I’m not particularly keen on the scape you linked as it has very limited plant mass (that was likely trimmed and adjusted for the final photoshoot) and I’d guess that daily water changes and trimming/shaping are an important aspect, also limited livestock 

From Nigel Aquascaping (he’s a ukaps member and has progress Journals for some of of his scapes here)


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## alto (7 Feb 2021)

A nice beginning A Forest Pathway

Nigel Nigel's Forest scape 128L

I’ve seen a video where someone is talking about creating the sort of scape “Metempsychosis” but can’t think who or where so not very helpful but it did involve LOTS of wood available and then adjusting the scape while looking through the camera (of course this is all pretty standard for “contest” scapes, so again, not very helpful )


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## Epiphyte (7 Feb 2021)

Thanks Alto, this is my replacement tank for my 350L which, slightly ironically now I've decided its fate, is now behaving....

I'll take a look into forest aquascapes then. Thankfully my local shop stocks a lot of this type of wood (I don't know the name of it) so I can just head down there and pick up a load and spend an afternoon cutting and gluing. I guess to integrate rocks into it could be quite easily done?



alto said:


> Yes, especially if you always view the tank through a wide angle lens



My other hobbies include photography, so I've got a few of those kicking around


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## alto (7 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> now I've decided its fate, is now behaving....


naturally


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## alto (7 Feb 2021)

You should be able to find this sort of ADA article for ‘Metempsychosis’ (maybe a new topic requesting IAPLC 2015 book information)









						TOP OF THE WORLD 2020 #05 Roger Goh | AQUA DESIGN AMANO
					

I did not have much in my mind when I prepared to start on my layout for IAPLC 2020. When I thought of my counterparts from Little Green Corner - Malaysia, it struck me to create a forest scape. I consider it risky as forest scapes have not been “in trend” recently but I gave it a try...




					www.adana.co.jp


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## Whitebeard (10 Feb 2021)

Hi, 
you could also watch Josh Sim Workshop on the Green Aqua Youtube Channel... gives a good idea on the layout, placement, details etc.


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## Epiphyte (10 Feb 2021)

I've watched that video @Whitebeard, these professionals are incredible what they manage to achieve.

I bought a _lot_ of spider wood today and have converted my dining room table into a hardscape dojo and am trying different layouts now. Will post some results later.

Out of interest, given that the end of spider root is often rough cut, how do people neaten them up to look presentable sticking out of the tank? Just sand, or so something to make it look a little more natural?


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## GHNelson (10 Feb 2021)

That's a bit of a project! 
Squared ends can be bashed with a hammer.....thinner root ends can be paired down with a Stanely/Utility knife!
hoggie


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## Epiphyte (10 Feb 2021)

GHNelson said:


> That's a bit of a project!
> Squared ends can be bashed with a hammer.....thinner root ends can be paired down with a Stanely/Utility knife!
> hoggie


Thanks Hoggie, I approve of hammer based scaping!

Here's my first layout idea, I'm going to walk away for a few hours and come back see what I think.

I've not done any trimming, nor do I have any detail branches in place, but I think it's coming together.

I may bust out the milliput on the rocks tomorrow to get them in the tank as I think they look about right, especially with the wood going down them.


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## alto (10 Feb 2021)

Konrad Michalski said:


> After playing with a few remaining pieces of wood I finally found what I was hoping to find. A few not very nice pieces eventually started matching. From this moment I roughly knew how I would like the final scape to look like. All I needed was more wood.
> View attachment 135440



@Konrad Michalski hope it’s OK that I “borrowed” this photo from your journal (linked in previous post)

@Epiphyte note how the wood choice and placement leads the eye down a curved path
(and then how he changes wood for the actual scape, but creating the same flow with rocks only supporting the wood so they have little visual impact) 

Your layout above is fine, but it’s going to produce a different affect than Metempsychosis


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## Epiphyte (10 Feb 2021)

I'm hoping with my soil, sand and plant layout I will be able to work closer to what my original inspiration was like, but it's just that, inspiration. I don't want to copy it certainly, it's still got to be "my tank", if that makes sense.

I've got quite a bit more spider wood which I will start to build the centre section up. I think I'm happy with my rocks, they're just there to support the wood and glue lots of moss and epiphytes to. I don't intend to have much rock on show once it grows out, it'll hopefully just be moss, plants, roots and little patches of stone. 

All this is with the caveat that I am still somewhat new and clueless to aquascaping


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## alto (10 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> if that makes sense.


For sure

I just wanted to mention that your present layout looks to heading more towards this style of scape despite obvious difference in wood


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## rebel (11 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> but is it possible?


YES! But this scape is a refinement of years of practice with very very careful attention to detail. the picture looks like it's been taken with some sort of clouding in the water to create that hazy effect etc etc.

I suggest you practice arranging in a scape box daily (20 minutes should do it). Within a year you will have a good understanding of how scale works in a small area.

At the same time, practice your plant growing skills separately. 

Studying natural water ways and how things are layered in nature will also help.

good luck.


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## alto (11 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> given that the end of spider root is often rough cut, how do people neaten them up to look presentable


I’ve seen an aquascaper (perhaps FAAO) use additional pieces of wood, glue in place, and moss or epiphytes used to hide the seam (which you can also obscure with Aquarium Soil “dust” - Filipe Oliveira shows the dust technique in his RIVER STREAM 90cm home tank step by step video)


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## Epiphyte (15 Feb 2021)

Okay here is my shot of making a hardscape with some depth to it. It's not perfect but I'm pretty happy so far. I need to add some detail stones and roots then get planting. 

Unfortunately 15-ish of my fish have died in the process of this tank swap, which is really blahblahblahblah, I think the stress must have got to them. I've made a few changes in their temporary home which means I've lost none since early afternoon and hopefully none until tomorrow morning when they move in to their new tank once it's planted and plumbed.


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## alto (16 Feb 2021)

Unless you’ve very dense carpet type plants to “hold” the soil/sand division, I’d suggest a lot more (even small) stones ... regardless paths need good maintenance and occasional “renewal” to keep the look 

Sorry to hear of your fish losses - any ideas on what may’ve happened?

(I assume they were placed into that bin with one of the filters)


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## Epiphyte (16 Feb 2021)

That's something I've been thinking about, how to maintain the path. I am going to be carpeting with Marsilea Crenata but I haven't got a whole lot right now so it's going to take some time to grow. I think I'll almost do a "hedge" along the path and hope I can trim it to grow outwards towards the sides of the tank. Until then I can perhaps put some gravel type stones but I have no more of the main rock left.

I'm not entirely sure what got the fish, I had them in my bin with the Oase plumbed in filtering and heating, so biologically it should be fine. I was watching TV and heard some "flopping" noises and one of my SAE had jumped for freedom. I scooped it up and got it back in the tank and put the lid on. I think the lid must have cut oxygen levels down, it wasn't closed, there was a gap, but that combined with less surface agitation may have caused an O2 drop. I opened the lid late morning to find about 4 or 5 Harlequins, 3 rummynose, 3 embers and both SAE (including my bent one, poor bugger) upside down and floating. Two of my Angels were also at the surface gasping.

Ammonia was a little elevated so I did a 50% water change and threw an air stone in. I left the lid off until one of my Nannacara decided being a bird might be fun, I found it looking very dead on the floor after I came back from the shops, but as soon as I went to pick him up he jumped so I popped him back in the water, hopefully he makes it as he has excellent colouration, here's a photo of him...





alto said:


> Unless you’ve very dense carpet type plants to “hold” the soil/sand division, I’d suggest a lot more (even small) stones ... regardless paths need good maintenance and occasional “renewal” to keep the look
> 
> Sorry to hear of your fish losses - any ideas on what may’ve happened?
> 
> (I assume they were placed into that bin with one of the filters)


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## alto (16 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> here's a photo of him...


He is stunning
(though for some reason the actual picture doesn’t show until I click on it)

If you had a hospital tank, I’d suggest keeping him there for several days and adding StressGuard (which does seem more effective than some of the similarly advertised products) - skin damage will allow bacteria etc

In the community tank, I’d still add StressGuard if possible and focus on large daily water changes to minimize water column bacteria etc

Re fish deaths, if you end up “chasing” fish for longer than a couple minutes, they can become exhausted and then may pass away easily from the next stressor, also its recommended not to feed fish for 24h before this sort of adventure 

I’m surprised that you could see the ammonia elevation - an active filter should limit this to very minimal increase - though I suppose you did have quite high fish density (and some larger fish) in the bin (relative to the Juwel tank) 
I do often place a loose lid atop temporary tanks (to prevent startle jumping) but also leave several cm’s air space between water level and lid - as long as there is some surface movement, I’d expect sufficient oxygen levels 

Though in this instance it may’ve been the combined ammonia and (possible) reduced oxygen 

Marsilea crenata can be quite fast growing or alarmingly slow 
Just choose any rock or other barrier that you can more easily remove later 

(I wouldn’t add any new fish for at least a month, even if you move the angels on soon)


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## Epiphyte (16 Feb 2021)

I had the same problem with the picture @alto, I tried a few times on two versions of the same photo but no luck, wouldn't even let me embed it! Perhaps a bug on mobile.

I think that the tank move, including quite a lot of chasing, caused a lot of stress indeed, followed by a minor ammonia bump + less oxygen may have been too much for them. I'll grab some stress guard tomorrow to see if it helps them out.

I'll see if AG has any Marsilea Crenata in tomorrow, though I'm not holding out too much hope. I've got enough for a small area but another pot or two will help. Need moss too, lots of moss! I think I'll be using Christmas moss, I like it's density when trimmed down.


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## alto (16 Feb 2021)

Epiphyte said:


> lots of moss


You could use this tied to similar style stones as a path border 










						ADA Riccia Stone
					

ADA Riccia Stone It is a layout goods to tie Riccia or Willow Moss and makes a carpet of plants on the substrate. The substrate is easily paved with the flat shape Riccia Stone. The flat shape is easy to spread and it matches on substrate. The NEW Nature Aquarium Goods Riccia stone has more...




					www.horizonaquatics.co.uk


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## Kezzab (16 Feb 2021)

The scape looks nice. Few comments:

it feels like each side needs and intermediate piece of wood between the very think front pieces and the next back.
can you get a more pronounced curve in the path?
it looks like it will be practically difficult to plant and maintain the tangle of small bits at the back. Worth having a think about.

Good luck!


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## Epiphyte (16 Feb 2021)

Valid points @Kezzab, my last thoughts before stopping yesterday evening was about the curve in the path and this morning I changed it to increase a curve down the bottom.

The difficulty in planting wont be as hard as it looks, it looks more compressed in the photo but all areas have got good lines to get tweezers and scissors in. I do agree though that a medium thickness bit of wood would help, but I think I'll have to add that later as I'll need to hunt for the right bit of wood.

I've ordered a few more pots of Marsilea Crenata and Christmas moss which should arrive early next week from AG.


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