# UP atomiser mist reduction



## Wally (21 Mar 2012)

How do I get the co2 to dissolve before it reaches the tank.To get it to 30ppm there is always a mist of co2 .I have the atomizer on the out let of a Rena xp3 external filter returning to the tank through a spray bar.I have been told that if I put it on the inlet to the filter by the time it reaches the tank it will be dissolved but don't want to damage my filter.Any suggestions?


----------



## Antipofish (21 Mar 2012)

Wally said:
			
		

> How do I get the co2 to dissolve before it reaches the tank.To get it to 30ppm there is always a mist of co2 .I have the atomizer on the out let of a Rena xp3 external filter returning to the tank through a spray bar.I have been told that if I put it on the inlet to the filter by the time it reaches the tank it will be dissolved but don't want to damage my filter.Any suggestions?



There is some significant disbelief that it will cause any damage.  Several people have been running their diffusers on the inlet for some time with no apparent problems.  Even on the inlet you will STILL get CO2 bubbles in the aquarium.  I do.  To completely dissolve you would need a CO2 reactor, like the Aqua Medic AM1000.  The cost of this is significant loss of flow.  If you are lucky enough to run two filters, or a massive beast like the FX5 thats not a problem but if you only have the XP3 you would see your flow drop by a third I reckon.


----------



## ceg4048 (22 Mar 2012)

Hello,
         It's important to clarify that the entire purpose of the Up atomizer is specifically to create a mist, the theory being that the fine mist facilitates CO2 uptake when making contact with the plant leaves, which should work better than dissolving the gas in water. That is the prime feature of this model. If you don't want a mist because you disagree with that theory then you have really bought exactly the wrong model. Otherwise you should continue to use the mist technique and do a better job of distributing the effluent so that the mist carries to as much of the tank and makes contact with as many leaves as possible.

Cheers,


----------



## Ady34 (22 Mar 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> It's important to clarify that the entire purpose of the Up atomizer is specifically to create a mist, the theory being that the fine mist facilitates CO2 uptake when making contact with the plant leaves, which should work better than dissolving the gas in water. That is the prime feature of this model. If you don't want a mist because you disagree with that theory then you have really bought exactly the wrong model. Otherwise you should continue to use the mist technique and do a better job of distributing the effluent so that the mist carries to as much of the tank and makes contact with as many leaves as possible.
> 
> Cheers,



Yeah i think there is a common misconception out there that the atomisers produce a fine mist c02 so it dissolves easier into the water, however as Ceg says its simply to facilitate better c02 uptake from the plants point of view, so getting the mist to the plant is key....hence the importance of good flow/distribution.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Mar 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OR, people will buy these cost they cant afford £60 for a decent CO2 reactor and try and get the mist to dissolve even more, LOL.

This has got me thinking though.  HOW FINE is the mist meant to be.  Is it just that, a "mist" or is it lots of bubbles.  Cos the bubbles mine produces seem to be very visible as bubbles rather than a mist.  Perhaps the new one makes the mist finer with more bubbles than the original ?


----------



## sWozzAres (22 Mar 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> ...the theory being that the fine mist facilitates CO2 uptake when making contact with the plant leaves, which should work better than dissolving the gas in water...



How much substance do you think is behind this theory?


----------



## Ady34 (22 Mar 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> OR, people will buy these cost they cant afford £60 for a decent CO2 reactor and try and get the mist to dissolve even more, LOL.
> 
> This has got me thinking though. HOW FINE is the mist meant to be. Is it just that, a "mist" or is it lots of bubbles. Cos the bubbles mine produces seem to be very visible as bubbles rather than a mist. Perhaps the new one makes the mist finer with more bubbles than the original ?



This is a q i wouldnt mind answering too. Im presuming mist means very very fine bubbles. I know its not exactly the same but my in tank diffuser produces varying sizes of bubbles, from what i would consider misting through to bubbles, which probably explains poor c02 diffusion both dissolved and direct to the plant leaf, and a high bubble rate to achieve 30ppm..... most of it is probably wasted out the top of the tank as the bigger bubbles arnt held in suspension for as long and head for freedom at the tank surface!.... i think i need a better diffuser!



			
				sWozzAres said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I reckon being as how most aquatic plants act like most non aquatic plants when out of the water and in contact with unlimited c02 direct to the leaf, there is probably a huge amount of substance behind the theory. The problem is however that underwater getting a fine c02 mist isnt easy, then getting that mist to the leaves is problematic also. Then with all the flow im not sure how long a contact period is needed for this to be efficient?
In an ideal world we'd get super fine mist, that attracted itself to the leaves and sat there for as long as was needed for the plant to uptake! 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## foxfish (22 Mar 2012)

Here is one of my tanks operating an UP anatomiser at 7-8bps the flow is coming out of the far white hole on the right cant see much mist unless you are a few feet from the glass!
Click on pic for a short vid


----------



## Mark Evans (22 Mar 2012)

With a finer mist plants do much better. 

Since switching to an 'up' atomizer which gives off much finer bubbles, my plants have gone into over drive, and pearling is quite intense. 

Learn to live with the mist   from afar, you cant even tell to be honest.


----------



## Wally (22 Mar 2012)

Cheers guys
Flow is not a problem as i have 2 xp3s and 2 1600lph hydros in 400lts.I dont mind the mist,it is very fine and you can't see it from a couple of feet away.I just got it in my head that the co2 needed to be totally dissolved .


----------



## sWozzAres (22 Mar 2012)

isn't it more to do with the fish not liking it rather than aesthetics


----------



## Wally (22 Mar 2012)

My fish don't seem to mind it to be honest,they are a lot healthier and active than they were before I added the plants,co2.The emperor and cardinal tetras spawn on a regular basis which gives my dwarf chiclid extra food.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Mar 2012)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> With a finer mist plants do much better.
> 
> Since switching to an 'up' atomizer which gives off much finer bubbles, my plants have gone into over drive, and pearling is quite intense.
> 
> Learn to live with the mist   from afar, you cant even tell to be honest.



Mark, I apologise if I have already asked this but is your UP inline on the outlet or inlet of your filter.  Im seriously thinking of going back to the outlet and getting this mist going...


----------



## Matt Warner (22 Mar 2012)

I don't know why co2 most bothers so many people. I actually like the co2 mist as it shows me where the co2 is getting to. In nature water is never going to be completely bubble free anyway!


----------



## Antipofish (22 Mar 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> I don't know why co2 most bothers so many people. I actually like the co2 mist as it shows me where the co2 is getting to. In nature water is never going to be completely bubble free anyway!



I am rapidly subscribing to this perception too Matty.  I have never seen CO2 bubbles sticking to my leaves yet though, hence deciding to move my diffuser to the outlet rather than inlet.


----------



## Matt Warner (22 Mar 2012)

I have my glass diffuser placed underneath the filter outlet. As the bubbles rise they get blasted all over the tank.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Mar 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> I have my glass diffuser placed underneath the filter outlet. As the bubbles rise they get blasted all over the tank.



What type of filter outlet do you have ?  I use a spraybar for best distribution so am finding it hard to envisage the method you just suggested without having a diffuser at the front of my tank. Got a pic of what you mean ?


----------



## Ady34 (22 Mar 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Matty1983 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Chris, just put your inline on the filter outlet and the c02 mist will be distributed via the spraybar return. In effect what matty was saying is that his in tank c02 diffuser is below his filter return thus the current distributes the co2 just the same as your spraybar does already   .
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Mar 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Ady, thanks.  Yeah I got what he was saying but was trying to picture it as I dont know what type of filter return he has.  If its a spraybar then it would mean having his in tank diffuser at the front of the aquarium I thought, and wanted to clarify it thats the case.


----------



## Ady34 (23 Mar 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Hi Ady, thanks.  Yeah I got what he was saying but was trying to picture it as I dont know what type of filter return he has.  If its a spraybar then it would mean having his in tank diffuser at the front of the aquarium I thought, and wanted to clarify it thats the case.



Sorry Chris.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Mar 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing to be sorry for Ady, nothing at all, I always appreciate any help    Its just I was trying to get at something else.  Reason behind it is that I may try an in tank diffuser but dont want to have to put it at the front as I would not like that look.


----------



## Ady34 (23 Mar 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Nothing to be sorry for Ady, nothing at all, I always appreciate any help  Its just I was trying to get at something else. Reason behind it is that I may try an in tank diffuser but dont want to have to put it at the front as I would not like that look.


Its funny because ive just bought an inline diffuser to try that method, i think ill get better c02 distribution from my filter outlets, and less 'stuff' in the tank!
Bl**dy c02, seems its a tricky one to get right!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## sWozzAres (23 Mar 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> > Bl**dy c02, seems its a tricky one to get right!


Join the club 

I started with cyclone+internal water pump+koralia

switched to co2 reactor, which broke dumping water on my carpet, got a replacement which was too noisy

then switched to super UP atomiser

soon I will be trying out my mates old reactor

and so it goes on....

BBA is sensing weakness and looks ready to explode at anytime!


----------



## Antipofish (23 Mar 2012)

sWozzAres said:
			
		

> Ady34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




   You sound like my double !  are you keeping the "super" atomiser or returning it for the refund they offered you ?  It seems like this new model could be a step backwards because I know many people liked the old ones.


----------



## sWozzAres (23 Mar 2012)

The "super" atomiser isn't bad, it does the job according to my DC but the size of the bubbles and the fact you have to patch it up with jubilee clips leaves me wanting something better. There is definitely something not right with it though, it hisses but if you hold it tightly then put marginal pressure on the one of the connectors, the hissing will stop. If you hold both hoses and bend slightly it leaks big bubbles into the hose. Suggests build quality issues, I will take a closer look at the weekend.

The jury is still out on returning it.


----------

