# Can I go this low tech?!



## chinwag (10 Sep 2017)

I was browsing IG, and I saw these;

https://www.instagram.com/p/BY0923ZgkoX/?taken-by=samsaquariumz

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYbHDhhgawl/?taken-by=samsaquariumz

Was just curious - will something like this hold up over time, like without any water movement, heater, filter pumps etc or is there a lot going on with these that I'm not seeing?

I'm keen to get started planting but it's a bit of a learning curve at the moment!

Thanks.


----------



## Bart Hazes (18 Sep 2017)

I would think these don't hold up over time but they are probably easy enough to set up a new one every few weeks (or whenever the glass needs cleaning or the plant needs topping).

I am running complete aquariums without water movement, heating, lights, filter, pumps, air stone etc and some have near-zero maintenance beyond feeding, removing excess plants, and topping up with RO water. I just started a thread in the Filters/Filtration/Pumps section on no-flow tanks. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/low-flow-and-no-flow-tank-setups.50823/

A few smaller tanks and tubs run with no tech, relying purely on sunlight. To my surprise a 10 gallon zero-tech planted tank has been in front of a large West-facing window all summer and the windows, plants or hardscape have never needed cleaning. It has a couple of cherry shrimp and 9 fish as livestock and maybe the shrimp are to credit for keeping the tank algae free.

You can find blogs on filter-free and circulation-free tanks on my blog at biodives.com/blog


----------



## techfool (18 Sep 2017)

Bart Hazes said:


> I would think these don't hold up over time but they are probably easy enough to set up a new one every few weeks (or whenever the glass needs cleaning or the plant needs topping).
> 
> I am running complete aquariums without water movement, heating, lights, filter, pumps, air stone etc and some have near-zero maintenance beyond feeding, removing excess plants, and topping up with RO water. I just started a thread in the Filters/Filtration/Pumps section on no-flow tanks. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/low-flow-and-no-flow-tank-setups.50823/
> 
> ...


Interesting. I have been running a no-tech windowsill vase for a couple of months with guppies, shrimps and snails..  I'm wondering how long I can keep it going.


----------



## chinwag (18 Sep 2017)

Thanks @Bart Hazes - I thought perhaps they'd be good for a while and then die out but I was thinking they might make a nice starting point, just to get a feel for planting and growing.

Interesting blog BTW, I'm going to have to make some time to have a good read of that.

@techfool - Do you have a thread for your vase? Be interested to see that, I'm pretty new to this and had no idea you could keep shrimps without a tonne of extra equipment!


----------



## techfool (18 Sep 2017)

Hopefully this will work:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/is-my-windowsill-vase-doomed.50702/#post-498494

Keeping the shrimp alive hasn't been a problem.  The challenge has been combating algae.


----------



## dan4x4 (19 Sep 2017)

Hi Ive been attempting this, I've kind of had success.

I have plants growing, Daphnia living in there but not growing big. I have a large snail for some reason the others don't grow big they seem to die off early.

Mine is outside, I put it there in order to try and get some larvae to feed my fish with. Hasn't really worked in that sense. Although there is daphnia theres not much.

I literally never do a water change as its impossible to not stir up the sediment in the bottom. Rain just fills it up.

I've had more success with containers that are wide and with much less depth. I have loads of algae but conisderably more larvae.


----------



## dan4x4 (19 Sep 2017)

It hurdles gets any sunlight aswell, probably 2 hours a day at best.


----------



## chinwag (19 Sep 2017)

Thanks for the link @techfool - I'll take a look.

@dan4x4 - That jar's very cool, what's the surface plant you have in there?


----------



## dan4x4 (19 Sep 2017)

chinwag said:


> Thanks for the link @techfool - I'll take a look.
> 
> @dan4x4 - That jar's very cool, what's the surface plant you have in there?



hi chinwag, its water lettuce.

Hygrophila polysperma grows well too.

I've tried growing the following but had no success..
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Java fern
Littorella uniflora
sagittaria subulata
echinodorus quadricostatus


----------



## chinwag (19 Sep 2017)

Cool, thanks - I'm working my way through your plant list on google now.

This sort of thing really appeals to me as a starting point, my brain can't cope with too much technical stuff at once!


----------



## dan4x4 (19 Sep 2017)

chinwag said:


> Cool, thanks - I'm working my way through your plant list on google now.
> 
> This sort of thing really appeals to me as a starting point, my brain can't cope with too much technical stuff at once!



what substrate are you going to use?


----------



## chinwag (19 Sep 2017)

I'm still looking into substrates, from looking at some of the wabi-kusa I was thinking ADA Amazonia, topped with some gravel to help anchor things, does that sound reasonable?

I'm hoping a bag will be enough for a few experiments, I'd like to try more of an open wabi-kusa as well as some jars.

And something along the lines of a paludarium, but I'm still trying to work out a good substrate for that, I'm looking to make something like ABG mix, but again - this is all from things I've read and definitely not backed by good research and knowledge on my part! 

I'm hoping that experimenting will help me learn faster, it's a bit overwhelming trying to pick it all up before you start.


----------



## dan4x4 (20 Sep 2017)

I haven't tried any of the ada stuff. I like the cheaper options basically organic compost, but then I get that ADA stuff is made for the hobby so probably your chances of success are higher with it.

If you speak to the people at green machine they might be able to help you with the ADA stuff.

The pic I sent you has a mix of westland aquatic compost and also soil. Its literally been left outside and topped up by rain nothing added. I haven't tested the water in it so couldn't tell you whats going on in there sorry thats not very useful. But I guess it works if you don't mind the algae.

I know I said before but Ive had better success using n old lunch box than a jar. It would be pretty difficult to clean the jar aswell, much easier with a lunch box shape.

I noticed in B&M or home bargains they had small rectangular aquariums, might be good as a test. 

I want to try the organic compost and sphagnum moss next. I bought these things when setting up my most recent aquarium but I actually forgot to put the sphagnum moss in.. lol.

you might find this link useful - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...lanted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/#post-192144


----------



## zozo (20 Sep 2017)

I tried several things like that, from small goldfish bowls, small bottles, large wine glass almost everything that holds water.
The last one i did and photographed was this.. it was i believe a 30ml bottle one of the smalles i ever did...


 

Just for fun..


 

But it never is very long lasting, the smaller you go, the more difficult it is to keep it stable. I guess one of the biggest issues is volume vs surface area, there is very bad gass exchange, it favors algae to grow very rapidly.. I tried with putting in small amounts of Daphnia when algae start to grow. It kinda works, but also onlu for short periode.. Even with a daily water change it doesn't last long, but definitively got plants to grow in it.. And when algae appears in such small volumes it also is very hard to play with algecides, like glut or h2o2, it only needs a few tiny drops, one drop to much and it kills all.. Since it is so little and this stuff (both are actualy  disinfectants, that little amount of bacteria populating  in there gets killed beyond repair.

But it is fun for as long as it holds.


----------



## chinwag (20 Sep 2017)

Cool link, thanks @dan4x4 - I've started readin throught that, very useful.

I was leaning towards ADA Amazonia primarily because I loved the results people got with their Wabi-Kusa, but I'm all for exploring different substrates, especially if they're cheaper.

My initial container is going to be a glass dish thing, about the diameter of a breakfast bowl but with straight sides - I'll post up a thread once I've planted it up.

Hopefully this will work well as you've both suggested surface area would be an issue with a smaller diameter container.

I went out to pick up a couple of bits for the pond today and came away with a few plants, totally unprepared to plant them so now I have to do something to keep them alive! lol.

I have micranthemum, alternanthera, staurogyne, some java moss, and another plant which I now can't identify because I didn't realised they'd picked out the one with no label! 

I was trying to pick a mix of low cover and leafier, slightly taller plants so fingers cross that will work - I might have to start emeresed and work up!

@zozo - that looks great, it's tiny! What substrate do you have in there, it looks like the grit is underneath the substrate?

Thanks again for allt he good advice everyone.


----------



## chinwag (21 Sep 2017)

It's not planted up yet, but just for the sake of sharing, here's my container.



 

It's actually too short for the taller plants, not sure if I can split those, or if they'll come down a bit when I take them out of the pots. It's also a bit crazy optically, so I'll have to see how I feel about that once I've had a proper try at it.



 

If not, I have some decent sized science jars that I might use instead.

And here's a picture of the unidentified plant.


----------



## zozo (22 Sep 2017)

chinwag said:


> It's not planted up yet, but just for the sake of sharing, here's my container.
> 
> View attachment 110286
> 
> ...



You actualy don't need to flood them completely, as they are now it is emersed form anyway and you can grow them on like that. Only submerse the pots and keep the lid closed and gradualy open it up, every day a bit longer till they are addapted to lower humidity permanently. Some might grow beyond the containers height without problems.

Just remember what you buy in the LFS is 99% emersed grow form even if they sell it to you from a flooded container in the shop. In the aquarium it needs to transition to submersed form first before it starts to grow. This takes some time and the plant needs some room and good care and good gass exchange for that. Flooding emersed form in such a small jar is absolutely going to fail on a rather short term once the melt kicks in.

If you want a bit longer fun in flooded setups like that, than take already submersed form cuttings from the aquarium. And if you have a high tech aquarium, than do a daily 50% water change in the jar and put co2 rich aquarium water back, makes it again last a little longer..


----------



## chinwag (22 Sep 2017)

Thanks @zozo - So glad you pointed that out! I just assumed because they came out of a flooded tank at the shop, they had to grow that way, so I topped the jar right up after I took that photo! 

I'm just redoing it all, making a bit of a mess of it tho TBH, first I put soil with gravel on top, now I've got gravel with soil on top, bits of plant and water everywhere! lol.

I've been splitting everything and the bulk of it's gone into propagators while I work out what to do.

Thanks again - I'll post up some photos once I've sorted everything out!


----------



## zozo (22 Sep 2017)

chinwag said:


> I just assumed because they came out of a flooded tank at the shop, they had to grow that way



You're not alone and not your fault. it's a very distracting not particular educative marketing strategy.. because if the plant isn't sold with in 2 weeks or so, you buy an already more dead than alive algae infested plant.. See that a lot..  Maybe they think people are to stupid and wouldn't believe it is an aquarium plant if it was presented emersed. Even worse many LFS sell non aquatic plants that are presented submersed. Something wrong in the system what actualy the "stupid" shop owners don't seem to grasp.


----------



## chinwag (24 Sep 2017)

Thanks @zozo - I've been reading a few threads on the conversion from emersed to submersed, commercial growing methids, melt etc and it makes way more sense now.

I've redone the jar, and put everything else into propagators.

It currently looks a real mess but it's really just to see what happens now.





I've set it up a bit more like a terrarium at the moment, with a drainage layer and soil on top, I'm going to do another one the other way around when I get some substrate, with the aim of moving from emersed to submersed.

At the moment, I just want to keep them alive!

Thanks again for the advice everyone.


----------



## dan4x4 (28 Sep 2017)

I like this chinwag, make sure to do an update once its all grown in! I don't know where your from but aquarium gardens comes recommended from me if your ever after new plants. I live in the north east and there's nowhere really selling anything other than java fern and anubias.

My mam was about to throw out a glass bowl that an orchid was growing in. The orchid is dead so thats in my compost pile now. Anyway I now have a glass bowl 

So I'm thinking of using a tiger lotus that I have in my main tank which is going to be replaced by some Hygrophila corymbosa & Cryptocoryne crispatula. I'm going to do dry start, never tried that before. 

Probably fill half way up to maximise surface area for gas exchange. I also have some Sagittaria subulata that I've been growing emersed that I plan on utilising 

Im going to use garden soil & compost mix this time too this time and a layer of sphagnum moss then gravel. 

Nothing is going to live in it. Its probably too small. I'll post some pictures when its done!


----------



## chinwag (2 Oct 2017)

Thanks @dan4x4 bizarre coincidence, I got a bit obsessed with Tiger Lotus after seeing this on IG.

I took a look at Aquarium Gardens and ordered one, so thanks for the recommendation. If you have any pointers let me know, probably not my smartest move but I couldn't help myself! lol.

Definitely keep us posted once you get the bowl set up, I'm well interested to see it.

I've planted up a whole bunch of jars since, mostly aquatic compost capped with grit, just to see what happens really but there's not really anything to post yet! I think I made a mistake in not getting the compost nice and wet before capping it, it looks a bit too try at the moment.


----------



## dan4x4 (3 Oct 2017)

From what i've heard they like plenty of nutrients.

You want to rest the bulb on the surface n push it slightly so its approx 50% in the substrate. This will help stop it from rotting I believe.
I have also found that mine are doing better now that they are in areas of low flow.
Mine melted at first, like really bad I thought I was going to loose it. It proved me wrong though. It has grown slow in my tank but my tank is deep so my be because of lack of light.

Your project will be awesome if you let that lotus grow to the surface and flower I can imagine that looking sweet.

I set my bowl up today. I used some beech twigs, some moss, java fern, Sagittaria subulata, Hydrocotyle tripartita and anubias coffeefolia. I'm trying dry start  I'll get some photo's up. Doesn't look much atm.

I used sea glass and some shells as a gravel cap.


----------



## dan4x4 (3 Oct 2017)

That IG post is awesome!


----------



## chinwag (4 Oct 2017)

Cool, thanks for the pointers @dan4x4 - hopefully it'll be here for the weekend and I can get it planted.

I'm going to replant most of the stuff I setup already as well, as I've been doing a bit of googling about low tech and jar setups and I want to revise what I've done.

I've also got a daylight spectrum LED bulb but I think I might have gone too bright - it's like living on the sun!

Your bowl is looking good so far - def want to see some more pictures of that as it progresses!

I might start a new thread after the weekend once everything's planted up, just to post the jars etc and see what people have to say about what's going wrong. lol.

The IG link - I DM'd the guy, he was really helpful, I noticed on a lot of his posts he mentions that the jars have been up and running for a while so that's promising.


----------

