# Changing To Pressurized CO2, Advice/Help Needed, Budget £150



## Jafooli (21 May 2013)

Hi 

I just joined this site as I originally asked this question on the planted tank, and soon realized most people were from the USA, and when I researched UK regulators, this site popped up everywhere, so here I am, and hopefully someone can help me change from DIY CO2 to Pressurized. 

I've only just learnt the basics of what a regulator, solenoid is etc, so am still finding this all a bit daunting, anyhow my budget is around £100-£150. 

The reason I want to change is I am having Algae problems in my tank, which I believe to be from fluctuating diy co2. 

So far I am thinking of purchasing the TMC V2 Pressure Regulator Pro with Solenoid Valve (DIN477) 
with a UK CO2 FE from Ebay.... I have no experience around all this but that's what I'm thinking at the moment....

I am a little worried and my main concerns are the EOTD, I can not find any 2 stage regulators in UK, so am worried about my fish dying, I also want a good solenoid that when it switches back on, the bubbles per second don't change, I read some people have to readjust there bps because the solenoid keeps changing the pressure. I also have no experience around all this and most threads regarding the FE say to be careful as you don't want to put a whole in your house, so yeah am a little worried about all this.

I also read one way to avoid EOTD would be to change the FE when I see the tank pressure gauge dropping, but I would lose out on same gas, how long would a FE last on a 20gallon tank before I see the tank pressure dropping, I will be using a nano diffuser at 1bps, I presume this is sufficient enough. 

Any advice or help would be great, other wise it may be worth looking around this site, and see how people mix there DIY co2 here, and then try to master my DIY setup, as I would fee more at ease.


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## jimwalsh (21 May 2013)

boc 8500 | eBay

BOC 8500 multistage for £50 
burkert 6011 about £30 from RS
you will need a needle valve and connectors should cost about £30-40


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Thanks for reply jimwalsh

I took a look at the BOC 8500 and the Burkert solenoids on RS, but could not tell 100% which one your on about, as it said they was all in the 6011 series...

Also to add I am not very good at DIY, I have no idea how I would build this setup, connect it all together etc, I did a quick Google and found someone explaining how to setup the BOC 8500 and it seemed quite complicated, he also used the Burkert 6011 solenoid, it seemed like a lot of the people were saying its there next project as if it will have complications, how easy and quick can I have this setup?, in mind I have never done this before, and have no experience. I presume the BOC 8500 is the only 2 stage regulator available in the UK as I can not find any, and can not find any already setup.


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

I got my regulator and CO2 tubing from here £47.
CO2 Systems For Your Aquarium - CO2 Supermarket

A fire extinguisher from local suppler £10.
JBL bubble counter Ebay £10 odd.
22mm UP in line atomiser £15 odd (but takes 3 weeks to arrive). Better bet is from UK based Tankscape here :- Atomizers

All you need is a timer then to turn it on couple of hours before your lights come on...job done.


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Cheers Ian

I presume that regulator is not 2 stage, do you let your fire extinguisher run empty on your setup? or do you change it when it gets low to prevent an end of tank dump... also how is the solenoid on that unit, does it adjust the bubble rate when it switches on, or does it stay accurate everyday?


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

This is a two stage regulator and works fine until tank is empty. Solenoid works fine, needle valve fine, same bps each time it comes on. Only CO2 issues I have had are not using one way valves with locking clamps and pipes blowing off, and using a cheap bubble counter where the CO2 attacked the clear plastic and leaked CO2 (and water). Now using a JBL bubble counter, expensive, but dead easy to get water in and so far no problem.


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Thanks for the reply Ian,

I am a little confused though, I have no experience with all this, but from doing hours of research looking for 2 stage regulators in the UK, I thought 2 stage regulators had a large hump on the back of the regulator casing and a single stage is flat on the back, like the one from co2supermarket, where compared to the BOC 8500 recommended from Jim, this has a large hump on the back. I could be totally wrong, just bit confused.

Its also fairly cheap compared to the TMC V2 Pressure Regulator Pro with Solenoid Valve which is £90 and single stage I have been told. So it seems to good to be true....

If its working great for you then that gives me some confidence in buying it, but would like to do more research first before I change to pressurized which ever regulator I choose, do you know roughly how long a 2kg FE would last on a 20gallon tank at around 1bps, I presume 1bps is sufficient enough.

Thanks again


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

Jafooli said:


> I am a little confused though, I have no experience with all this, but from doing hours of research looking for 2 stage regulators in the UK, I thought 2 stage regulators had a large hump on the back of the regulator casing and a single stage is flat on the back, like the one from co2supermarket, where compared to the BOC 8500 recommended from Jim, this has a large hump on the back. I could be totally wrong, just bit confused.


Nothing to do with bumps see here What is the difference between the Single-stage and Two-stage Regulator? from Scott Specialty Gases. A two stage has much better regulation, won't dump and most of the "more expensive" planted tank regulators are two stage. 


Jafooli said:


> Its also fairly cheap compared to the TMC V2 Pressure Regulator Pro with Solenoid Valve which is £90 and single stage I have been told. So it seems to good to be true....


the site sponsors also sell CO2 regulators CO2 Regulators and Solenoids | Buy CO2 Regulators and Solenoids Online and Regulators. 


Jafooli said:


> If its working great for you then that gives me some confidence in buying it, but would like to do more research first before I change to pressurized which ever regulator I choose, do you know roughly how long a 2kg FE would last on a 20gallon tank at around 1bps, I presume 1bps is sufficient enough.


My 2Kg FE lasted 8 months on my 180l tank at "drop checker being green" bubbles per second. I don't know my bps, might be 2, as my bubbles will be different size than yours....


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## Mikster (22 May 2013)

Jafooli,

I haven't been using co2 for that long, so i help with my experiences.

i got mine regulator  from the place Ian_n suggested. You might be able to get a cheaper one or the same off ebay, but then you cant return it easily if it goes wrong, mine works fine never had an issue.

You can get a fire extinguisher cheaply (£23ish from ebay including delivery) i have not been lucky to track down a local source unfortunately and with the cost of petrol and lazyness i have not bothered collecting.  I use a fluval  bubble counter and Fluval Ceramic diffuser. I have tried several different types of diffusors, including inline. For my setup the fluval seems to work best for me.

To get you started regular airline pipe will work, just remember the co2 will cause it to harden, so it will need replacing with proper co2 line.

Using pressurised co2 can seem a little intimidating, i was a little nervous, but after you have done it once its easy  that should be less than £100

I hope that helps


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Cheers for the replies,

I only find it all daunting because everywhere I read says go with a 2 stage regulator to avoid EOTD, I don't want to lose all my fish because of an EOTD, and I read not many places sell 2 stage regulators, and I'm still so confused how you tell the 2 apart, I read the link Ian sent, although it explains the difference between a single stage and 2 stage, I still cant tell by just looking at a regulator if that makes sense, and that's where I read 2 stage regulators normally have a large lump on the other side, which is the 2nd stage.

Anyhow I am not sure what to do, mainly because of that reason, and I like the co2supermarket regulator, and also like the TMC V2 Pressure Regulator not sure if its 2 stage. But am thinking more towards the co2supermarket regulator as you both have had no problems with it and its cheaper, but yeah am just over anxious about EOTD I guess.

Secondly my main concern, which I read on Google, and a couple of threads on this site mention it, is the safety of using a FE, I don't want to risk it blowing off and putting a whole in the house lol, I've never done all this before, I think I understand everything but am just a little worried as you can probably tell, also once I connect the Regulator to the FE, how do I start it all up? I read you can break your regulator if you do it wrong, so I don't want to do it wrong and found I wasted my money by breaking my new regulator.

I also presume any CO2 fire extinguisher from ebay will work, as long as it has the UK fitting, (din477), also are the CO2 fire extinguishers pure co2? or is it liquid inside and how does that not go into regulator? I read water/liquid in the regulator can erode the connections and potentially make it blow off.

Sorry for all the stupid questions, just this is what's all worrying me lol, and I feel like when I release the fire extinguisher a bomb is going to explode lol, I read one guy when out in his garden all suited up in goggles etc when he first did his, but yeah its a bit daunting especially as its pressurized gas.


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## Mikster (22 May 2013)

Jafooli,

I was the same when i pulled the pin and let the gas out for the first time, you don't have open it fully  to be honest it was a bit of a anti-climax. half expecting gas to escape, but nothing. i cannot speak for the other regulators, but the one Ian and i use seam fine, i am thinking about buying a second for tank number 2.
If its a UK FE then it will fit. Everyone (not including me) on this site really know their stuff so i wouldn't be that concerned about advice given, if someone had issues with the TMC V2 we would all know about it.
Email CO2 supermarket, i had issues with the mixer reactor and they were happy to help and i am sure they can explain what it does and doesn't do? and if someone had a FE blowing a hole in the wall, they were either using rubbish kit, doing something very wrong or an idiot 
Oh yeah, don't over tighten the nut connecting the FE to the regulator you might strip the thread get a leak (but not an explosion )


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

Most of the "big" regulators I have seen for aquarium use are dual stage and have two dials on them, one for tank pressure (55bar typically) and other regulated pressure (2 bar for instance). There are a few two dial single stage (here possibly Regulators), but are few in number and easy to avoid for FE use. Single stage are fine on small CO2 containers, aerosol size etc where the end of tank dump, if it ever happens, which is rare, only dumps a small amount of gas and makes no difference.

For fire extinguisher just read:-
Fire extinguisher CO2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society

I connected regulator, pressed FE handle and.......well nothing....needles moved to 55bar and 2bar and that was it, no loss of limbs, no asphyxiation, no disembowelment due to blowing cylinders....really boring. I even did it in the lounge, wife would have killed me if I had exploded over the new sofa  We even have loads of CO2 fire extinguishers at work, some even hanging on the wall and not even strapped down, so they can't fall over and explode  and yet not one has exploded. 

If you have an FE with dual holes in handle you closed handle and insert pin to hold handle shut.





The FE is 2/3's full of liquid CO2 and rest is gas. Yes there is a dip tube into the liquid, but we are using so little CO2 ie 2Kg in 8 months rather than 2Kg in 30 seconds the liquid will never make it into the valve and regulator. You can try it if you like, I did, open needle valve full, turn on solenoid, gas rushes out and absolutely no change in temperature of valve and/or regulator.




I wouldn't worry about it, I don't, I worry about plant trimming, identifying and persecuting fish that pull my plants up and when in my busy life to fit in a water change !!!!


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Cheers for explaining that all to me.

lol its good to know my chance's of blowing up are very slim  but I will definitely treat the system with respect and make sure its tied up inside my cabinet.

So just to make sure, once I purchase either of the regulators most likely the co2supermarket reg from ebay as they sell it there as-well..... when it arrives through the post, along with a UK FE from ebay, I just unscrew the FE hose then screw in my regulator, then from here I am now confused, I presume I need to switch the solenoid on? and then press down the FE handle and tie it shut, or as mentioned above insert the pin again to keep it closed if I get a double pin FE. Do I have to adjust anything before I press the handle down? or do I do that once I have the FE handle down... or do I press down the FE handle tie it shut, then plug in the solenoid? whats the correct procedure, I presume I don't need to adjust nothing until the FE handle is in the down position.

Also once I get it all hooked up, I just get some soapy water and brush it around all the connections to make sure there are no leaks if this method works well? I tried this on my yeast mix once and it didn't detect leaks even though I had one to begin with, so whats the best way to detect leaks. I don't want to put my brand new regulator in a bowl of water, it may get water trapped in the gauges?


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

Ensure FE handle is locked, so can't be accidently pressed whilst setting up. Should be a pin in handle to stop this as supplied.
Remove horn.
Connect regulator, tighten nut.
Pull out pin.
Depress handle to open FE. Might be slight hiss and needles on dials move. No gas comes out as solenoid is not powered up and therefore closed.
Lock handle down.
Check for leaks & dry when finished.
Connect CO2 tubing fro regulator needle valve to one way valve to bubble counter to diffuser.
Weigh the whole cylinder and regulator, write on cylinder this value. When it weighs this value - 2Kg it is getting empty.
Connect solenoid to mains timer.
Turn on solenoid.
Adjust bubble count as necessary.
Enjoy luscious green plants. Easy peasy.


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## Jafooli (22 May 2013)

Cheers for that Ian, that should be me sorted then, I guess I will look into ordering everything.

I just hope a 2KG FE will last a long time on my 20Gallon Tank, and hopefully no more worry's about fluctuating CO2, which happens with my yeast. I also presume once its finished its best to just buy another FE. or does a re-fill cost cheaper, if anywhere does it.

Cheers again.


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

My tank is 40 UK gallon and 2Kg lasted 8 months. My last one was 6months, due to failing bubble counter and upping the rate a bit.

I get my FE's swapped over for £10 ago. Some people get theirs filled at a similar rate, depends whatever is easiest for you and you can locate near you. Some place won't deal with general public, other are only too happy to help.


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## ian_m (22 May 2013)

Hmmm current FE is heading for 4 months. Just weighed it 3.87Kg today down from 5.45Kg 26/3/13. Oh well. Hopefully due to increased bps rate as adjusted by me rather a leak.....


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## Jafooli (25 May 2013)

Hey Ian,

I hope you figure it all out, seems like your setup is going down each time by 2 months lol, first 8 then 6 now 4 lol.

I am planning on ordering my setup most likely on Monday, there are a lot of FE on ebay, some new some refurbished, I was going to try get a brand new one just to keep everything new, so will all the UK fe work from ebay? or are there some to avoid or that have different fittings, I was looking at  2 KG CO2 fire extinguisher CE and BSI Kitemarked. Newly manufactured. | eBay , not sure if I can post ebay links here , hope I can.

I also plan to weigh the fe with the regulator on like you mentioned, so how often do you weigh yours? every month? and I presume you just let yours run till its empty, do you notice your tank pressure on the regulator drop every month? or does this thing happen over night.


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## Jafooli (25 May 2013)

Also just to add about what Mikster said about to not over tighten the nut as it may strip the thread, how tight is to tight? I seem to always tighten things till it can't go no more.


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## ian_m (25 May 2013)

Hmmm I recommended to Bertie in another thread to check for leaks but didn't myself. Well upon dunking my bubble counter in a jug of water there was a leak from bubble counter lock nut. Bum bum bum.

So pipes refitted with a smear of plumbers lsx45 thread sealer. No leak now. But only couple 100  grams CO2 left more bum bum.

Jafooli the pressure in a CO2 cylinder does not change as it empties, the liquid evaporates keeping pressure constant. When all the liquid has gone the pressure then starts dropping in which you have a couple of days left.


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## Jafooli (26 May 2013)

Glad to hear you fixed your problem, and thanks for explaining about the tank pressure. 

I hope my setup goes smoothly, and just to clarify will the FE I linked work, so pretty much any UK CO2 FE works? or are there ones to be avoided.


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## ian_m (26 May 2013)

Yes the FE will work fine, though having the kitemark means nothing as far as you are concerned. Contact local FE supplier, get phone number off an FE at work, library, B&Q etc they might be cheaper than eBay. Also local FE place might sell you 2nd hand or containing less than 2kg (leaked or partial let off) or even with only year or two left before expiry date for much less. Not suitable to be used in as an replacement FE in a building, but fine for you usage. Someone here got couple of old FE for £15 once.

My FEs have been new, test date Jan 2013, old, test date Dec 2003, slightly below 2kg (someone maybe set it off) and all are within test, 10 years, so perfectly safe and legal, but only £10 a go. In fact not illegal after 10years, just illegal to refill (without retest) after expiry date.

If you do get older ones, ie from say company replacement after 5 years that are perfectly ok but you will have to dispose, check your local council tip as not all will take old FEs. My local tip does, I checked, as I was going down the eBay route before finding my local supplier.


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## Jafooli (26 May 2013)

Cheers Ian for explaining all that, I will order that one from ebay just to get me started, then I will defiantly take a look for a local supplier, but hopefully I get a decent amount of months from my first FE, 3-4 at least. 

Thanks again for helping.


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## Jafooli (28 May 2013)

Just a quick update I purchased the CO2 Regulator and the CO2 FE.

I also want to say I phoned a local FE supplier, and when I said do you sell CO2 FE to the public he kind of laughed and said yes we do, then I said how much is the price for one, he said £54 and that's refurbished with new hose etc, I said what that's a 2KG Fire extinguisher he said yes it is, I said do you not have nothing cheaper for me like any thing about to expire etc, he goes what building is this for, I said my house he goes ohhh right, and can I ask what you need it for, I said CO2 for my aquarium, he goes ohhhh your thinking about this all wrong, you don't want a CO2 extinguisher the pressure is colossal, you need to contact a aquarium specialist shop right away as I know what it is you want to do, but this is not the way at all, so I just said oh right ok I understand, bye.

So after the phone call I just went ahead and made a purchase from ebay and that experience kind of put me of ringing other places now.

My gf is also worried about me doing all this, so best if I don't tell her about that call, he sounded like I was about to be put in hospital lol.


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## ian_m (28 May 2013)

Jafooli said:


> I also want to say I phoned a local FE supplier, and when I said do you sell CO2 FE to the public he kind of laughed and said yes we do, then I said how much is the price for one, he said £54 and that's refurbished with new hose etc, I said what that's a 2KG Fire extinguisher he said yes it is, I said do you not have nothing cheaper for me like any thing about to expire etc, he goes what building is this for, I said my house he goes ohhh right, and can I ask what you need it for, I said CO2 for my aquarium, he goes ohhhh your thinking about this all wrong, you don't want a CO2 extinguisher the pressure is colossal, you need to contact a aquarium specialist shop right away as I know what it is you want to do, but this is not the way at all, so I just said oh right ok I understand, bye.


That is a shame. Try someone else, took a couple of calls before I hit £10 a go gold!!!

The tanks for aquarium use are just the same (ok stop cock valve), same pressure, 55bar, built and certified to same British Standard, same 10year test life, same ability to cause serious damage if abused, even probably filled at same CO2 filling stations as fire extinguishers, except they cost many many times more. My local fish shop wanted £100 odd for 2Kg cylinder and £20 a go to refill.


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## Jafooli (28 May 2013)

Cheers Ian I might do some more calls, but just worried encase more people advise against it lol, I am already worried enough about connecting it all up, I just told my gf its safe to keep her happy, but my face will probably say it all lol.

I'm just shocked at the cost people sell some things, I found DIY yeast so easy and once I realized it was to hard to keep the bps consistent, and changing the yeast all the time got a bit of a hassle, I wanted to go pressurized and all the kits out there, fluval in particular was selling 88g canisters at £10 and people on youtube, forums, were saying they was lucky get 2 weeks at 1bps, so I just hope I've chose the correct way, and everyone here seems very helpful so I feel confident I have made the right choice.

I will give an update once I get it all up and running as-well.


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## ian_m (28 May 2013)

Other CO2 routes are:

Beer/pub gas. Easily available but start at 6.3Kg size. Some people have bought these cylinders for say £50 and cost £15 to fill. Will take a "standard" aquarium regulator. May even deliver & collect from your door.

There's always the Sodastream bottle CO2 route. About £10 for 420gr, but available from Argos, John Lewis etc. People sell adapters so you can refill them yourself from say 5Kg pub CO2 cylinders Refill Your CO2-tank | Refill DIY Gas Cylinder but if you are having poopy panties about a nice & safe fire extinguisher this will be underwear changer for you . Needs an adaptor to fit a "standard" aquarium regulator.

Also welding gas. £15 for 600g from Machine Mart. Needs an adaptor to fit a "standard" aquarium regulator.


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## Jafooli (28 May 2013)

lol, I will just stick to the FE route, + I've now made my purchase and spent hours revising this route, and also have read some good threads on here, and it seems very cheap and easy, I guess its just a natural feeling to be a little worried, I'm not worried for my safety just my family's house having a nice big hole on the side, but I know what I'm doing, so as someone said only a idiot or misuse will cause harm  . Am more exited now and just want it all to come so I can get it all set it up and not worry about yeast mixtures no more


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## ian_m (28 May 2013)

Can't do this with a yeast based setup.


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## Jafooli (28 May 2013)

Lol that looks fun, maybe next time I phone a local supplier il say its for my wheelchair lol and see there reaction.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (28 May 2013)

Jafooli said:


> lol, I will just stick to the FE route, + I've now made my purchase and spent hours revising this route, and also have read some good threads on here, and it seems very cheap and easy, I guess its just a natural feeling to be a little worried, I'm not worried for my safety just my family's house having a nice big hole on the side, but I know what I'm doing, so as someone said only a idiot or misuse will cause harm  . Am more exited now and just want it all to come so I can get it all set it up and not worry about yeast mixtures no more


 

Shame, Im selling a JBL proper setup CHEAPER than chips.


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## Andy Thurston (28 May 2013)

How about a ukaps co2 powered soap box derby
Quality our lasses mums got a spair wheelchair


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## Jafooli (28 May 2013)

Sorry Nathaniel, have spent my cash now, am sure your have no problem selling it! 

Lol Big Clown, derby sounds fun, i'll leave you to organize it and send out the invites, maybe let ukaps sponsors know then we can stick some vinyls on the side to advertise. 
I could ring back my local fire extinguisher department and let them know I now plan to use there colossal pressure to race my soap box lol, as the aquarium specialists he told me to contact recommended me there ridiculous priced co2 setup so I've changed hobby..


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## Jafooli (30 May 2013)

Just a update and need some more advice please.

My co2 fire extinguisher arrived yesterday with out the hose connected which is a +, all looks good, but I have a few questions which may be daft but just want to make sure I understand.

CO2 Supermarket told me I should have the setup connected to the mains and the needle valve open a bit for the first time I fire it up, which goes against everything I've learned here, and not only from ian_m's great help its also in the other threads and the official FE thread, so not sure why they told me this when I emailed to clarify.

Also my FE if I were to close the handle down it does have another hole for the pin to go in but not dual holes like Ian mentioned, so I presume I will need to use tape on my handles.

Also it came with a metal bracket type thing with 4 holes to screw to the wall then a little metal round hook, surely it don't expect the weight of this thing to hang on a wall with one hook? I could take a pic to show.... I'm trying think the best way for me to secure this with out rope or something going around my tank cabinet.

I also presume my regulator will come with washers etc? like the one's on the FE hose... and I see mikster warned me about not stripping the thread, so how common is that, I need to make sure I tighten it well, so opinions on this would be great.

Regulator still in post which is annoying, as I really want to get it all set up now, but will keep updated till all is up and running.


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## Andy Thurston (30 May 2013)

Dont overtighten it, it should seal well before you strip the thread. Tighten as far as you can with fingers (it wont go if its crossed), then a little nip with spanner. then check for leaks


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## Jafooli (30 May 2013)

Cheers Big Clown, that helps a lot I will do the above.

So the correct procedure is to fire the extinguisher outside, then check for leaks etc, then connect it all up?

Just annoying how CO2Supermarket told me otherwise, all I did was just email them to clarify, as I don't want to bust the regulator or solenoid, then they say fire it all up with the solenoid on and needle valve open a little bit.

Also are there any washers/orings that should come with my regulator? I read some people have to replace there orings or something due to leaks, so I'm still not familiar with that side of things.


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## ian_m (30 May 2013)

Jafooli said:


> Also my FE if I were to close the handle down it does have another hole for the pin to go in but not dual holes like Ian mentioned, so I presume I will need to use tape on my handles.


I used a cable tie to hold mine handle closed. When finished either slide off and reuse or cut and replace.



Jafooli said:


> So the correct procedure is to fire the extinguisher outside, then check for leaks etc, then connect it all up?


No point wasting CO2 unless you want to scare yourself and neighbours. First time I assembled mine in garage, where I had all my tools and bucket of water + Fairy liquid to check for leaks.

Later ones I re-assembled by the fish tank, so as to not disturb the CO2 piping, which we all know is prone to leaking when fiddled with. Easy to check for "gross" leaks at FE valve (when next to fish tank) as if nut is not tight

You can hear gas escaping
If you squeeze the handle to with solenoid off, main tank gauge goes to 500psi (approx.), release handle, pressure should stay at 500psi. Leave to a while, cup of tea etc or even over night and pressure should still be 500psi. If not you have a leak.


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## Andy Thurston (30 May 2013)

Reg will have a seal. Either an o ring or a washer , these can become worn/damaged over time. Worth having a spare, at least knowing where to get one from.


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## Jafooli (30 May 2013)

Cheers guys for helping me out there with my questions... 

Ian when you set yours up in your garage etc, when you fired the extinguisher for the first time, was your solenoid plugged in? as that's where I'm now confused, you made it sound like I could do it either ways? I want to do it so I don't risk damaging the regulator. 

Also as you mentioned the CO2 piping, I don't want to go off topic, but I will probably just use normal air tubing for now, but what's the best tubing out there, I did some research a bit and a lot of people said polyurethane tubing so I was thinking buying some of that from ebay. 

Thanks again.


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## ian_m (30 May 2013)

Jafooli said:


> Ian when you set yours up in your garage etc, when you fired the extinguisher for the first time, was your solenoid plugged in?


No mains not plugged in, as don't want gas flowing when you press the handle.

Once handle locked down, fiddled with short pieces of tubing and bubble counter, closed needle valve, plugged in solenoid and fiddled with needle valve and bubbles just to get an idea of what to expect in needle valve and bubble count setting. Of course all different when connected to tank, but at least you know what to expect.



Jafooli said:


> Also as you mentioned the CO2 piping, I don't want to go off topic, but I will probably just use normal air tubing for now, but what's the best tubing out there, I did some research a bit and a lot of people said polyurethane tubing so I was thinking buying some of that from ebay.


You need proper CO2 proof tubing as CO2 will dissolve in silicone & rubber air tubing, hardening it. Takes a while but does go hard. This is why the FE sealing washer is PTFE rather than rubber, if you use rubber, at 500psi, the CO2 will dissolve it allowing it to deform and gas escape.

My tubing is something like this
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/neutro-co2-tubing-per-metre-p-2095.html

One other thing, try too keep lengths of tubing as short as possible, but obviously long enough to be able to move things for maintenance. When I first set mine up, with UP inline diffuser, I connected suitable lengths FE -> stop valve to bubble counter, but as I had metres of tubing left I used this to connect bubble counter to diffuser. The thought here was if move diffuser to other side of tank, pipe is already long enough. Actually a silly thought as can't easily move pump  Anyway I had great difficulty setting a reliable bubble count, appeared to be OK, then diffuser would like "burp" gas, bubble count would go really fast, slow down to one or two per sec, then diffuser would like "burp" gas and cycle just repeat. It is due to the intervening length of tube pressurising slowly, then depressurising causing the cycling. Reducing the tube length to "correct" length and bubble count much more controllable, set to 2 bps ages ago and still 2bps.


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## Jafooli (30 May 2013)

Thanks again Ian for all your help.

Seems like I have all the information I need, Just will have to wait for regulator to arrive now.

Will most likely update once I get it all up and running, or i'll be back if I get confused about something else once I get the regulator.

I will also look into ordering that co2 tubing as-well and take your advice on length when setting up.


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## ian_m (30 May 2013)

Well the FE ran out tonight less than 1bps and drop checker blue. Also noticed some BBA appearing over last couple if days.

Anyway changed over whilst wife watching Eastenders no explosions no deafening release if gas, just odd clunking of big spanner. This is an old FE test date Dec 2003, and weighs  more than the 5kg max my scales can weigh so can't record weights as it empties.

Back to 2bps and hopefully all will recover.


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## Jafooli (31 May 2013)

Regulator arrived, and set it up this evening, I would just like to thank everyone and a extra thanks to Ian_m for helping me and giving me the knowledge on how to set this all up and the step by step post really assured me, and if it wasn't for big clown I would of most likely over tightened the nut with a wrench lol.  The official fire extinguisher thread was also really helpful.

It wasn't rocket science but without the help here I would of been clueless, anyhow I fired the extinguisher in my house after all and just aimed it at pillows lol, what good they would of done, but I can see how its unlikely for the extinguisher to take off as we don't even touch the top bit, only the side, so I presume at worst it would just spin off somewhere, still causing damage but anyway I tightened the nut a few turns with a wrench so hopefully I didn't strip the thread, I still feel like I'm waiting for it to shoot off. 

So as for now, my tank pressure gauge is reading 750-800psi mark, and the other gauge I presume output is around 50psi, how do these reading sound? I'm not quite sure how to read the gauges...... I presume there in PSI? and not sure if its best to read the outside or inside.

I also checked for leaks around the nut, and will check again but could not see nothing, and will also test where the tubing is connected, but solenoid off for now as tank lights out, but all was working for hour + at 1bps, and all was fine.

Also when I unpacked the regulator I looked for a washer/oring but could not find one, then below the regulator I found a white plastic ring which fitted perfect and was the only place I could see it fell from, so I presume this was the oring? anyway its fitted now and seemed to work, so where can I find spares for this, do I need spares? I'm just thinking of when I change FE, and how would I tell if I stripped the thread, I'm probably just being paranoid about the stripped thread, but still would like to know, I presume you had a white ring Ian?

Also the solenoid spins around a bit, I presume this is normal?, and I also could turn the regulator around, but once full tight I couldn't turn it as much, but I don't really want to mess about with it, just happy its all working and will now leave it all alone, but does this sound like anything to be concerned about?

I would like to ask as-well how does everyone else secure there fire extinguishers? any handy tips or ideas? I will most likely tie it to the cabinet.

I think that about covers it, so any help on the above would be great, and once again thanks everyone, I'm happy with it and it seems like a great purchase if it carry's on to work this smoothly.


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## Andy Thurston (31 May 2013)

Usually when you strip a thread it will keep turing but not get tighter this can be caused by over tightening 
When you cross a thread its been misaligned and will get tight to turn, this will damage thread thats why you make a few turns by hand and just nip with wrench, once youve done it a few times, you will know just how much it needs to seal. When it starts to need that "little bit more" its time order that new seal. If you tighten it more and more till you cant get a seal you will damage thread, why run the risk for a £2 seal(if that)
Look after this thread and it will last years. you would know if youd stripped it, when you did it. get some bolts in a vice and try you can feel it happen


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## ian_m (3 Jun 2013)

Jafooli said:


> I would like to ask as-well how does everyone else secure there fire extinguishers? any handy tips or ideas? I will most likely tie it to the cabinet.


 
Mine is in the gap between the end of tank and wall. Not going to go anywhere by itself. It is just about "wife friendly" as can't be seen when sitting on the sofa. If you angle the regulator up, you can easily read it without having to bend down.


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## Jafooli (3 Jun 2013)

Thanks for the replies,

Your solenoid is in silver, mines in black lol.  Also just to add does your solenoid rotate? 

I have got mine just sitting in cabinet for moment, Its heavy enough not to just fall over, but when my nephew visits he likes to jump up and down which is annoying, so don't want to risk it, all though he will be getting told off much more when he does jump up and down 

Thanks for sharing the picture


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## Andy Thurston (3 Jun 2013)

Put fe bracket in cabinet to stop it falling or getting knocked over


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## Jafooli (3 Jun 2013)

Hey Big Clown I'm not sure the bracket would work inside my cabinet, If I got it screwed in I'm not sure it could support 6kg + , I'm worried about it just sitting in there as its so heavy, I'm already hoping the cabinet does not bow or break. I might look into some rope, or see if I can buy some kind of stand.


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## ian_m (3 Jun 2013)

Yes the coil of the solenoid does rotate, all it does is provide a magnet around the core to open the valve. Idea is it is a replaceable component for different voltages eg 12V or 110V or if it breaks, highly unlikely as just a coil of wire inside.

I have "dabbed" the centre "core" of my solenoid with LS-X thread sealer silicone as I found that at certain rotation positions of the coil the solenoid would hum very slightly at 50Hz. Usually occurred after water change/fiddling which would move the coil and could hear the hum over the noise of the pumps. LS-X is very soft and as well as holding the coil in place kills the hum vibration. A bit of paper wedged in also stopped the hum, but was prone to being knocked out.


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## Jafooli (14 Jun 2013)

Just an update on how my FE is doing! 

Its been going pretty steady for the last 2 weeks maybe 2-3 days I slowed it down as I thought fish may of been gasping, but anyway it weights 6.8kg now and brand new it weighed 6.9kg...

So I presume all is going good, but to avoid an end of tank dump, even though it may not happen with my regulator, at what weight do I want to swap it over? 5kg? 5.1kg?


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## ian_m (14 Jun 2013)

4.85Kg ?

I just let mine run out. The bps rate drops when the main tank pressure starts failling in my case.


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## Jafooli (14 Jun 2013)

Hey Ian cheers for reply, well I will most likely monitor it more when it gets around 5kg mark then, and will see if bps drops or if the tank pressure starts to fall. Just not sure if I want to risk letting it fully run out yet. I know an end of tank dump is very uncommon but not all fish come cheap. The price of all my fish could buy me a brand new FE so don't want to pay for the both if I was the unlucky one.


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