# Back to T5, mistake ?



## eminor (12 Sep 2021)

Hello, I made a LED light but the rendering is not great, I went to a specialized store for aquarium, there is only one LED light that seemed correct, but it is far too expensive for me. I thought of switching back to T5, do you think it's a mistake, I came across this kind of t5 tubes, is it correct for aquarium, does the t5 still have a future?

I always found the T5 to be nicer, i want to mix 6500°K with 4000°K

*Link of the tubes*


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## plantnoobdude (12 Sep 2021)

most of the truly beautiful tanks run t5. they are coming back recently. they'll grow plants just as well and also a lot of option with colour spectrum and bulb choice.


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## eminor (12 Sep 2021)

plantnoobdude said:


> most of the truly beautiful tanks run t5. they are coming back recently. they'll grow plants just as well and also a lot of option with colour spectrum and bulb choice.


Yes, i wanted to try led because people said to me that it was better ans futurproof, old good T5 is back for me


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## PARAGUAY (15 Sep 2021)

A lot of the t5 tubes now have t5 replacement LEDs tubes but despite the claims the rendition what we see are not always as claimed by manafacturers


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## Zeus. (15 Sep 2021)

I used a combination of LEDs (kessil 160) and T5 tubes on my 500ltank to good effect easy/cheap to try different T5 tubes


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## Courtneybst (15 Sep 2021)

I use T5 lights on my biggest aquarium and it grows plants pretty well. My only complaint is the heat generated but otherwise they're good!


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## Wolf6 (15 Sep 2021)

plantnoobdude said:


> most of the truly beautiful tanks run t5. they are coming back recently. they'll grow plants just as well and also a lot of option with colour spectrum and bulb choice.


Just out of curiosity, what is it you find LED is lacking, considering many LED lights have full control over the color? 
On the groups I'm on I almost only see LED lights, same with those few IAPCL top rankers that I've seen the whole shot (including light) of, have LED. Again just curiosity, as I personally have no real preference, but what makes you say most of the truly beautiful tanks have t5?


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## Zeus. (15 Sep 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> but what makes you say most of the truly beautiful tanks have t5?


Easier/cheaper to play around with different T5 colour combinations of tubes, where as LED your stuck with LED chips the product has, some you can adjust the spectrum but that is still limited to the chips fitted.


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## Wolf6 (15 Sep 2021)

Zeus. said:


> Easier/cheaper to play around with different T5 colour combinations of tubes, where as LED your stuck with LED chips the product has, some you can adjust the spectrum but that is still limited to the chips fitted


That could be a reason to prefer t5. But the claim that most truly beautiful tanks use t5, and that to me is a bold claim that I'd like to see backed up. I rarely see t5 if at all...

*edited my response to stay closer to my question


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## zozo (15 Sep 2021)

I guess T5 is a lot more consistent regarding brands and their colour specifications... That's why most people stick with the brands they know to be in their taste. But the colour differences even in T5 still varies from one brand to another. As in the LEDs, there can be huge differences depending on the manufacturing process.

That's why nowadays the Kelvin Index is about to be replaced with CRI (Color Rendering Index) Ra <60-100 for LED lights... The closest to 100 should give the best real-time or true colour display. The cheaper budget LEDs yet do not have this CRI value and still specify Kelvin simply because the majority of the public is familiar with it and takes it for granted and doesn't know where they are looking at anyway other than yellow or white.

For now, we have to look at the more expensive and higher-end LED manufacturers to get a CRI specification...

And then still it all comes back to taste and how your eyes/brains perceive it all... There is no guarantee that a CRI 100 LED is to your liking.


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## plantnoobdude (15 Sep 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is it you find LED is lacking, considering many LED lights have full control over the color?
> On the groups I'm on I almost only see LED lights, same with those few IAPCL top rankers that I've seen the whole shot (including light) of, have LED. Again just curiosity, as I personally have no real preference, but what makes you say most of the truly beautiful tanks have t5?


very few led have yellow/orange spectrum. also purple. those bulbs helps make plants such as pantanal and ammania 'golden' pop and show true colours. personally i am not a huge fan of iaplc (please don't kill me) it focuses more on hardscape and moss. it's just not my thing.
here are a few of my favourite tanks.








						Plitvice landscapes-unfinished
					

Hello I wanted to show you all my fish tank. At the moment there is no details on the plants i will add them as time goes on.  Aquarium: 120x60x50 ( 360l)  Filtration: Eheim 2080,Eheim 2076  Lighting: Ati Sunpower 6x54w  Fertilization Macro- diy Micro-Aqua Rebell,DTPA  CO2: AM 1000



					www.ukaps.org
				












						120 Gal Dutchy Freestyle - Now with 35% less water volume!
					

So this is a journal for my new 120, which replaces my long running 75 gallon. For anyone who followed the previous tank, this one will be basically the same style with just a bigger footprint.  First planting, about 2 months ago.      Tank  48" x 24" x 24" Marineland 120 gal   CO2  GLA Grow 1...




					www.plantedtank.net
				











						Greggz 120G Rainbow Fish Tank (Aquarium Hobbyist...
					

I’ve been visiting this site often for months, but haven't started a thread about my own tank. I have posted a few times seeking advice, have chipped in when I think I have something to offer, but have mostly just read and learned. The information has been invaluable, and I thank everyone here...




					www.plantedtank.net
				











						90 Gallon Custom
					

It's been a while since I tore down my 5ft planted. I always had intentions of doing another build but life got in the way and I have been slowly turning my plans into reality.  I enjoy documenting the progress of each build so I can easily see the tanks progression and have decided to play a...




					www.plantedtank.net
				



my statement was a tad bold. I meant to say the tanks I find beautiful most of the time run t5.


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## eminor (15 Sep 2021)

plantnoobdude said:


> very few led have yellow/orange spectrum. also purple. those bulbs helps make plants such as pantanal and ammania 'golden' pop and show true colours. personally i am not a huge fan of iaplc (please don't kill me) it focuses more on hardscape and moss. it's just not my thing.
> here are a few of my favourite tanks.
> 
> 
> ...



I have a Pink T5 don't know what the purpose of it but never found same effect with LED, the colors everything kind of come to your face 

you use pink tubes on your 20G amazing "mess" right ?


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## plantnoobdude (15 Sep 2021)

eminor said:


> I have a Pink T5 don't know what the purpose of it but never found same effect with LED, the colors everything kind of come to your face
> 
> you use pink tubes on your 20G amazing "mess" right ?


that is not my tank. i wish! the person uses 3x JBL Solar Color, 1x 1 ATI 10000K Reef White. jbl colour is quite pink yes.


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## eminor (15 Sep 2021)

thx, i think i have a problem, I have an odyssea T5HO ramp, I installed it on a mechanical timer, from time to time the lighting ramp turns on for half a second when it's supposed to be off, any idea where this can come from?

is it bad for the tubes ? thx


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## foxfish (15 Sep 2021)

You only need to go back 7-8 years and the majority of planted tanks used T5s.
Interestingly, as I remember  it,  there seemed to be far more pictures of beautiful tanks on this forum and far less post about lighting issues ?
The T5 guide lines were simple and accurate as the tubes were long term tried and tested  unlike LEDs that still seem to be an enigma!


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## Wolf6 (15 Sep 2021)

foxfish said:


> You only need to go back 7-8 years and the majority of planted tanks used T5s.
> Interestingly, as I remember  it,  there seemed to be far more pictures of beautiful tanks on this forum and far less post about lighting issues ?
> The T5 guide lines were simple and accurate as the tubes were long term tried and tested  unlike LEDs that still seem to be an enigma!


There were also less variables to adjust so less ways to make mistakes. I always disliked the pink and to my eye unnatural hue of many t8 and t5 tanks, so I embraced led once the first lights appeared that seemed sufficiently powerful as the whiter light at that time seemed more natural to me. I no longer feel that way either,  so now I'll be trying wrgb led lights  that I can adjust the settings to find a colour I now feel is most natural. As always its down to individual preference. Some of the examples posted are amazing tanks and there isnt anything wrong with using t5 or even t8 or metal halide which was the best according to many back in the day. In the end whenever the sun briefly hits the tank and you see the colours of the fish light up and the shimmer going over the plants you realise that everything just pales in comparison.


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## John q (15 Sep 2021)

foxfish said:


> You only need to go back 7-8 years and the majority of planted tanks used T5s.
> Interestingly, as I remember it, there seemed to be far more pictures of beautiful tanks on this forum and far less post about lighting issues ?


Go back 20~30 years and folks were probably using metal halide or sodium bulbs to good effect?

We follow trends, I'm assuming aquatic Gardens have followed or copied our dry growing cousins that revolutionised grow rooms, aka bang for buck, in that scence led's win the hand.

For many, led's "fit" a niche, for most a good quality fluorescent would equally fit that niche and grow lovely plants... Will you find a sexy fluorescent tube that todays aquaskpers will buy in to?? Doubtful... will you find beautiful aquaskapes powerd by fluorescent tubes..  obviously, see above links.

A good workman doesn't blame his tools, a bad one just makes excuses 🙄


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## zozo (16 Sep 2021)

foxfish said:


> You only need to go back 7-8 years and the majority of planted tanks used T5s.
> Interestingly, as I remember  it,  there seemed to be far more pictures of beautiful tanks on this forum and far less post about lighting issues ?
> The T5 guide lines were simple and accurate as the tubes were long term tried and tested  unlike LEDs that still seem to be an enigma!



April 2011








						Why We Don’t Stock LED Lighting
					

UPDATE (2015): We now recommend ADA Aquasky range of LEDs which we have foudn to be far superior in performancs and design to all others on the market UPDATE: We now stock LEDs! Click here to read …




					www.thegreenmachineonline.com
				




December 2011








						Why We Now Stock This LED Light
					

Why we didn’t stock LED lighting… Some time ago we wrote an article entitled ‘Why we don’t stock LED Lighting’ because we were constantly being asked why we didn’t by our customers. In …




					www.thegreenmachineonline.com
				




somewhere in 2015








						LED Lights – Aquascape Art – The Green Machine
					

LEDs are the latest innovation in aquarium lighting and are developing rapidly. Beware: most LEDs that are marketed for planted aquariums are not actually suitable for good plant growth. We only su…




					www.thegreenmachineonline.com
				




Now we are 6 years further into development with LED types coming and going with the speed of light  and I guess this is what fuels the enigma. It comes and goes too fast, you are not yet done testing and it is discarded again from development and replaced with something else presumably better? I made my first DIY LED with the latest development SMD8520 dual-chip LED in 2015 and I was actually very pleased with it. Back then it was the only one performing with 65 Lumens p/chip. Today the exact same LEDs are no longer produced by the same factory... Only can find look alike spinoffs from questionable sources giving shady specifications.

Performance-wise the SMD fell a bit out of grace and developers were more aiming towards improving COB LED, having much more performance with a smaller footprint. Kessel Aquarium Light Jumped on it as an early bird.

They all run into the same issue, it all develops so fast and before they are done building and selling the stock it's outdated again. How do you test something for the long term that has no consistency and a specific model's development is halted, discarded and taken over by copycats making it from inferior and cheaper materials?

In hour country we use the expression "It still stands in Children's Shoes" and we as customers can't see the forest for the trees. Overwhelmed with choices with shady specifications...


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## PARAGUAY (16 Sep 2021)

What is mystifying is the speed in which companys discarded t5 (and t8 for that matter )to get on the LED bandwagon. Arcadia discontinued a lot of their catalogue probably   to sell their LED range. Anyone new or back to the hobby can take a look at amazing tanks pre LED to see what can be achieved with t5 t8 and t12.


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## MrClockOff (16 Sep 2021)

My only concern is that t5 tubes and the rest of fluorescent lights cannot be dimmed so no control of brightness or sunrise/sunset effect. I found those super useful


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## Wolf6 (16 Sep 2021)

PARAGUAY said:


> What is mystifying is the speed in which companys discarded t5 (and t8 for that matter )to get on the LED bandwagon. Arcadia discontinued a lot of their catalogue probably   to sell their LED range. Anyone new or back to the hobby can take a look at amazing tanks pre LED to see what can be achieved with t5 t8 and t12.


Considering regular mainstream lighting is also becoming more and more LED focused, perhaps keeping T5 production lines just for aquatic purposes is not viable?


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## zozo (16 Sep 2021)

MrClockOff said:


> My only concern is that t5 tubes and the rest of fluorescent lights cannot be dimmed so no control of brightness or sunrise/sunset effect. I found those super useful



They can with a Dimmable ballast, they used to be designed with an analogue 0~10 volts dim port... I remember a Dutch company that also designed a computable 0~10 volts controller for it. I believe it was named Flora Mate Dimmer. But it was discontinued because of the upcoming LED popularity... Occasionally you might still find it second hand at eBay.






						T5 Fluorescent Dimming Ballasts
					

Dimming specific ballasts for operating T5 fluorescent lamps.




					ballastshop.com
				




I'm not 100% sure but I believe there are ways to convert an electronic PWM controller to 0-10 volt analogue output. You have to dive into the Arduino community for this.
Some reefers already tried

I actually wouldn't be surprised if by now a PWM dimmable ballast for T5 already exists. 
Or


			https://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/uploads/dimslimdali.pdf
		


PLC can do this too i bet. @ian_m or @Zeus. ?








						How to use a PLC to control your fish tank.
					

Zeus also built a PLC controlled fish tank. Below is Zeus's build notes & pictures. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/page-3#post-489803  How to use a PLC to control your fish tank This article explains how you can use a PLC (programmable logic...



					ukaps.org


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## PARAGUAY (16 Sep 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> Considering regular mainstream lighting is also becoming more and more LED focused, perhaps keeping T5 production lines just for aquatic purposes is not viable?


I think your right commercial considerations are all in their interests .l mean why have an extended range of t5s when the selling points of 50,000 hours of use of a sleek LED unit is easier to sell no matter what the consumer likes. Most of these if not made overseas are probably contracted out to lighted giants like Osram is my guess. Whether true or not I did read aquarium lighting is a tiny percent of Kessil revenues


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## zozo (17 Sep 2021)

PARAGUAY said:


> I think your right commercial considerations are all in their interests .l mean why have an extended range of t5s when the selling points of 50,000 hours of use of a sleek LED unit is easier to sell no matter what the consumer likes. Most of these if not made overseas are probably contracted out to lighted giants like Osram is my guess. Whether true or not I did read aquarium lighting is a tiny percent of Kessil revenues



I don't know about the UK but afaik the incandescent light bulb is already banned in the EU in the shops they are no longer available. Maybe under the counter if you ask... If I want one I have to order them directly from China. The same is about to happen to the mercury gas containing energy-saving tube lights with screw fittings. These are banned from being used in public places if one does break at a kindergarten the panic breaks out too and they are obliged evacuate the entire classroom.

I guess the fluorescent tube lights are also slowly going to be commercially phased out.  At the time still, too many office buildings rely on them. Since it is built to last at least 30 years before the entire installation requires overhauling. Then you can imagine the average time frame it will take. 10 years ago fluorescent tubes were still built into public buildings such as offices and colleges etc. To keep all this still supplied with replacement parts the fluorescent tube will at least still be available in the coming 15 to 20 years or so. But it will eventually be phased out... By then the LED likely will be at its peak performance and standardized for all that needs light. 

That is our issue, Tube lights are done developing and since long manufactured under an ISO/DIN norm and with the LED this yet isn't possible we still don't know where it ends.


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