# 17 US gallon semi low tech (excel supplemented)



## faizal (27 Feb 2012)

Yup,...round 3 folks  

Plants: 
Cryptocoryne Balansae
Cryptocoryne Tropica
Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green
Crypt Becketii ( i think)
Crypt Parva
Java moss
Lileopsis brasiliensis
anubias petite nana
Nymphaea rubra
Phillipine java fern
narrow leaf jave fern
Egeria densa 
Echinodorus bleheri
Echinodorus quadricostatus

A very cheap china made filter with 400L/hr rating
Substrate : old ADA amazonia and some new africana mixed with a handfull of CaCO3 powder & topped with some 3mm sized gravel.

Day 7 since start up. I am sorry but don't have a pic to upload yet.

I like the easy maintanence of non co2 method but I find myself resisting the temptation (almost every day) to hook it up to a co2 system  

I know that we can tie the narrow leaf java fern to woods & rocks but can one also just plant it straight into the substrate? I actually just stuck some of  it into the substrate.


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## GHNelson (27 Feb 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi
Nice selection of plants....i would ditch the Egeria densa as it usually prefers cooler water temperatures.
All java ferns need to be tied to rock/wood or left free floating.
If you plant the rhizome in the substrate it will eventually rot away and perish.
You must have some nice free wood lying around in Malaysia use that for your ferns.
Cheers
hoggie


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## faizal (27 Feb 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi Hoggie!! I am gonna go back home I get it out of the substrate tonight. Thank you.


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## faizal (5 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Just a little update. I removed all my egeria densa plants due to caterpillar infestations  . I would usually just hose down most of the plants & it had never been a problem before. This time around though, I noticed chubby little yellow coloured buggers wedged in between 2 egeria leaves. Very sneaky little fellas. Very smart too.  

So after making sure there were no uninvited guests left behind, I ordered some new plants. They should be arriving by the day after tomorrow. 

1. Crypt wendtii green for some foreground cover as I like the way they stay low & compact. Has anybody used it as a foreground cover plant before please?

2. Echinodorus amazonicus 

3. Staurogyne repens

4. Anubias Lanceolata

My fingers are still twitching to turn the gas on ,....  . The Echinodorus bleheri that I had planted hadn't shown any improvement nor deterioration which I would like to hope is a good thing.  

Sorry for such a pictureless journal.


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## faizal (18 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi. I am truly sorry for taking a such a long time to add a picture to this journal. 















It's not the greatest layout but I am quite chuffed with it   

I love the nymphae rubra. It's the first time I've ever had any red coloured plant in my tank


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## Rabb.D (20 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

wow...   thats not the kind of low tech i was expecting... i was thinking more along the lines of the more common El Natural yellow tannin colored water that most people have when referring to low tech...

looks really clean and water is crystal clear... plants look healthy, about the crypt wendtii green... i have the tropica variation, and its all holes due to the negative change in co2 levels... 

nice plant selection though


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## faizal (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Thank you so much for your kind words Rabb.D,..  But then again it's hardly been a month since i started this tank. I think Ceejay once (one of our UKAPS members) told me that some changes take longer than 3-4 weeks in a non co2 tank & seems to make sense considering the growth rates.

I have been trying to give planted tanks a go for nearly 5 years now. And it had always ended in plants melting and things taking a downhill turn from there. 

it was only after stumbling upon UKAPS when things started taking a turn for the better. So many people here have more than helped me with my tank problems. 

The growth rates are so slow though.I am really tempted to turn it into an excel enriched tank y'know? There's really nothing much to do here.


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## dw1305 (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi all,


> i was thinking more along the lines of the more common El Natural yellow tannin colored water that most people have when referring to low tech...


 Yes, mine are all yellow tinted, but this isn't anything specifically to do with low tech. If you do water changes low tech., or even if you don't occasionally run a diatom type filter, there isn't any reason why you can't have crystal clear water. 

Most deliberately low tech. planted keepers tend to be keeping more unusual fish, like _Idostomus_, _Dario_ spp., _Apistogramma_, the small _Betta_ spp., Liquorice Gourami etc. which benefit from water with some organic content, subdued lighting and some biofilm development.


> The growth rates are so slow though.I am really tempted to turn it into an excel enriched tank y'know?


Don't do it, good things come to those who wait. 

cheers Darrel


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## Rabb.D (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Yes, mine are all yellow tinted, but this isn't anything specifically to do with low tech. If you do water changes low tech., or even if you don't occasionally run a diatom type filter, there isn't any reason why you can't have crystal clear water.
> 
> Most deliberately low tech. planted keepers tend to be keeping more unusual fish, like _Idostomus_, _Dario_ spp., _Apistogramma_, the small _Betta_ spp., Liquorice Gourami etc. which benefit from water with some organic content, subdued lighting and some biofilm development.
> ...



that interesting, i actually have a small low low tech, maybe 4 liters, and i'm keeping a badis badis the blue one(i'm sure you know its the blue one) and i find it interesting that the dario dario and other fish actually benifit from that kind of water...since my water is yellow tinted... any chance there's a link to a thread or article i can read? this is something new for me, i always thought fish suffer but are just hardy, with that kind of water condition.. been tugging at my conscience till now


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## darren636 (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

 your gravel reminds me of the little bits you get on fab ice lollies .


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## darren636 (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

tannin stained water is very good for fish that come from waters that are rich in organic matter.


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## dw1305 (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi all,


> any chance there's a link to a thread or article i can read? this is something new for me, i always thought fish suffer but are just hardy, with that kind of water condition


I use these recommendations for all of these sorts of fishes, not only Dwarf cichlids:  <http://dwarfcichlid.com/Aquarium_care.php>, and daughter pages on food, plants etc. 

There is some really good Dario and Badis information from the IGL journal "DER MAKROPODE". The "Blue Badis" details here: <http://joomla.igl-home.de/images/igl/mak_eng/MakEn 2_09.pdf>.

cheers Darrel


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## faizal (22 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> your gravel reminds me of the little bits you get on fab ice lollies .


   Cheers darren636. I am glad you like it. In my previous non co2 tank I had flourite for substrate and the whole thing looked very dark indeed. This time around I wanted  things to look a bit more bright inside. If that makes any sense.  



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Don't do it, good things come to those who wait.


Hi Darrel    , thank you for the comforting words. There is another reason why I wanted to add excel,...i had just planted 3 pots of echinodorus tennellus and they are all in their emersed leaf forms. My supplier didn't have the immersed ones. I really love the tennellus too,..especially the way they sway in the current. I had tried growing the submersed form before in a non co2 setup but failed completely. I was thinking maybe if I could supplement with Excel for about 3-6 months,...then wean off gradually (something I am yet to learn how),...they would survive?

If I leave them as it is, I am afraid they might be completely wiped out 1 month from now.

Your thoughts on this please.


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## dw1305 (22 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Hi all,


> planted 3 pots of echinodorus tennellus


 These are fine without CO2. I've never used any of the liquid carbon supplements, but I would expect them to start throwing out submerged leaves eventually, even if the emmersed leaves melt. I'd just remove any dead leaves and wait, 





> I was thinking maybe if I could supplement with Excel for about 3-6 months


 but I think this should be OK if it gives you peace of mind.

_Echinodorus tenellus_ are a recommendation on the Dwarf cichlid site: <http://dwarfcichlid.com/Aquarium_plants.php>.

cheers Darrel


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## faizal (23 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

Thanks Darrel  . Yeah I think it would indeed give me a little peace of mind. I just started dosing the Excel. The recommended daily amount is 1.7 ml for my 17 Us gallon tank but I thought I'd start with just 0.8 ml daily for about 3 weeks and see where it gets me. I should have added shrimps (one of the reasons for my sub normal levels of Excel dosing regime) by now as my tank is fast approaching the diatomic algal stage but in case if you hadn't already known I've put up a post under the invertebrates section with regards to the dragonfly nymph problem that I have been having recentely. 

I haven't had any problems with the plants supplied by my supplier in the past. But this time around though,..i am not really too happy. Till date I have killed 4 of them.


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## faizal (25 Mar 2012)

*Re: 17 US gallon low tech*

A little update on how it looks currently (view from the left side of the tank) :






FTS:





I found another dragonfly nymph lying in the front left corner of the tank yesterday. I thought it was alive initially but found out later that it was already dead. I am not sure what killed it though,...Excel (although I am dosing way below the recommended value) or just plain simple starvation as they are currently no other tank inhabitants to prey upon


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## Getthejist (25 Mar 2012)

I keep a low tech planted tank with Echinodorus tenellus without co2 and its grown loads, it looks more grassy than when I originally bought it so it was probably previously grown emersed and it is growing like wildfire, if I had a high tech tank and the apparent 2500% growth increase I'd have a carpet in a week  Tank looks good, also you may not be getting a tint because your not using soil, also waterchanges generally get most of the tint out. What fish are going in there?


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## faizal (26 Mar 2012)

Thank you Getthejist, for checking out my journal & for your kind comments. Much appreciated.   

Actually beneath that inert sand like substrate I have 3 month old used Aquasoil amazonia & some new aquasoil africana. I also mixed in a handfull of CaCO3 powder. I chose to cap it because I wanted the substrate to be light coloured as you see there. 

I've only managed to do a single water change though since the tank was set up ,...so that's about little more than a month. Mostly topping up evaporated water because I have a fan there to keep my water temp down to 28-29'C.
My inlet & outlet cannister filter tubes are already brownish in colour though  . I need too do a major water change this weekend.

I was hoping to add some otos, yamato shrimps, cardinal tetras and maybe a single male betta in there but I've put it all on hold for the moment as I have been having some problems with dragonfly nymphs in the tank. I've managed to kill 3-4 of them. The last of them was found dead on its own,...no apparent assault marks on the body,..so presumed it died of ?starvation. Hopefully it is the last of them.  

I am really looking forward to add some fishes in there but I feel i need to be patient due to the present circumstances.


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## ceg4048 (26 Mar 2012)

Hi Faizal,
               Looking good so far. Remember though that adding Excel changes the tank from low tech to high tech, which means you now have to pay attention to water changes and you have to dose more nutrients. I wouldn't even think about fish for at least another month. You may have found the larvae but there may be eggs yet to hatch.

Cheers,


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## faizal (27 Mar 2012)

Hi Clive!!     I am currently dosing as following

1/4th teaspoon KNO3 twice a week
1/8 th teaspoon KH2PO4 twice a week
2ml Seachem flourish twice a week
Seachem equilibrium 1/8 th teaspoon 
Water change 50% weekly



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> I wouldn't even think about fish for at least another month. ,


 Why is that Clive? Is it because of the unhatched eggs?



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Remember though that adding Excel changes the tank from low tech to high tech, which means you now have to pay attention to water changes and you have to dose more nutrients.



Oops.  I guess this means I need to take my journal out from the low tech forum, don't I?


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## ceg4048 (27 Mar 2012)

> Why is that Clive? Is it because of the unhatched eggs?



Hi mate,
           Yes, it's the same story with snails. You can eliminate them all, but a few weeks later more appear. best to be sure, although I'm not really certain what the incubation period is but i think it's about a month or so before they hatch.



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> Oops.  I guess this means I need to take my journal out from the low tech forum, don't I?


Don't worry about it mate. just wanted to make sure you understood the difference...  

By the way, i know you're in sort of a remote location, and I think you have access to medical supplies then you can simulate your own Excel using highly diluted Glutaraldehyde. Check the surgery and see what they use for disinfection of operating room equipment such as scalpels and so forth.

Cheers,


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## faizal (27 Mar 2012)

Just had an awful vision of myself sneaking out & grinning at the surgical resident with a big  bottle of gluteraldehyde tucked into my lab coat. "Errrrr,....it's for my aquarium plants,..."


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## Rabb.D (27 Mar 2012)

hey why not instead of upgrading this current low tech tank, instead invest in a bigger high tech tank, since this tank is almost maintenance free i think having another tank, high tech, wouldn't be much of a hassle... :!: 

i actually got rid of all my other small tanks i had when i moved to the current high tech tank when i started my journal but ended up setting up another low tech, just out of the addiction 

so you don't have to move the journal


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## faizal (28 Mar 2012)

You know why,....  

1. My wife will kick me out.
2. the Excel growth rates are just nice for me. I could spent the remaining little time with my family.

I don't know what's thr right thing to do though.I think i should shut down this journal under this forum section & start it under Journals.


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