# Am I going to have to much light?



## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

Hi all, I will be setting up a 180L tank (Juwel RIO 180) as a low tech planted tank tomorrow. Just wondering if im going to run into issues with anything.

I am using caribsea eco complete substrate (3 bags of), flourish root tabs, I will be dosing neutro liquid carbon daily and neutro T ferts daily. The lighting is the two 45w T5s (I am using tubes from iquatics and i believe they are both marine white).

The tank has been running for a couple of years now, its currently pea gravel, hard scape (rocks / wood) and some silk plastic plants. However i want to plant it properly so pulling it all out and starting again, retaining the current water. Currently I have reflectors on the T5s - Im guessing these will need to come off?

Plant wise, not 100% yet I have ordered a 20 pot mixed low tech box from aqua essential its their box suitable for a 125l tank. I will also be planting a small carpet of Micranthemum monte-carlo (8 pots ordered).

Stock fish wise, my existing stock is 2 x Severums (appreciate these will ned watching with the plants and re homing when they get too big), 2 angel fish, 3 small bristle nose, 15 rummy nose tetra.

Im slightly concerned about having to much light? What would a suggested photo period be to start with etc? I didn't really want to have to start adding C02 etc which is why i wanted this fairly low tech. Im kinda stuck with the lights as well as space is tight above the tank to I cant remove the lid and use a different lighting system. Thanks for any help or advise anyone can offer.


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## Clint Hewitt (5 Nov 2015)

Does your unit have reflectors? what is the Kelvin rating of the T5's?


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## Bacms (5 Nov 2015)

I am not an expert on low-tech but as far as I as remember 2 T5 place your tank right in the middle of a medium light zone at which point you require a source of carbon. Since the tubes are marine white the K rating will be a bit off for plants but not sure this really helps in reducing the light


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## Bacms (5 Nov 2015)

That being said you can cover your lamps with foil or use floating plants to reduce the light in the tank so no need to go and buy a new lighting unit


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

Hi yes, they do currently have reflectors, but I am going to be taking these off. They are 14K, I didnt think the kelvin had much impact on plants, it was more the par levels? I may swap one of them for 6800K tube. As i mentioned I will be dosing liquid carbon as well. 

I do like floating plants, however I have a spray bar so dont think they will do very well.


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## Bacms (5 Nov 2015)

spookyspike said:


> Hi yes, they do currently have reflectors, but I am going to be taking these off. They are 14K, I didnt think the kelvin had much impact on plants, it was more the par levels? I may swap one of them for 6800K tube. As i mentioned I will be dosing liquid carbon as well.
> 
> I do like floating plants, however I have a spray bar so dont think they will do very well.



Kelvin do have an effect on plants since it affects the PAR/PUR levels. However most plants are able to use light in different regions of the light spectrum so people tend to recommend 6500K because it gives a pleasant appearance and anything between 5000K and 8000K tend to be acceptable levels. 

If you lower the spray bar just below the surface so isn't strong surface flow you shouldn't have problems but you are also reducing gas exchange at the surface so covering the lamps may be a better option for you


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2015)

I have a Vision 180 with 2 x 35W T5 (and reflectors) and is clearly in the "high light" region, so your 2 x 45W T5 is certainly high light.

As you are using liquid carbon (and this light level) this makes it a high tech tank. So x10 flow, weekly water changes and continuous fertilisation will be required or else you plants will turn to mush very quickly.

So to make it lower tech, you need to lower light level, removing reflectors is a good start and possibly putting foil rings around the tubes to reduce light even further (may 1/3 ?) at least at the start until plants/tank settles down. Start at say 4hours light time for first couple of weeks. Then increase time and light level slowly. Too fast plants melt and algae grows.

You haven't stated your filtration rate.

If your tubes are really 14K, it will make corals look fine (marine) but plants will also grow fine, but tank/plants will appear very washed out. Plants look white'ish rather than green. I have two Juwel high-lite day in my tank and plants do look very green.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

Great advice, the tank has a fairly high turn over due to it having a large filter on it. Its 2000LPH pump, your not going to get that realistically out the filter but id think that it would be getting 10 x turn over. I'll see if I can come up with a way of reducing the light a bit more. I will also see if I can pick up some different tubes. Id like some LEDs for it but really not sure how id fit them over, i use echo tech radions over my reef tanks which are amazing but i'd not get one high enough over to cover.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

How about if i pulled a tube and just ran it with one T5?


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2015)

spookyspike said:


> How about if i pulled a tube and just ran it with one T5?


Not sure you can do that with Juwel light units. Remove one (or one fails) other goes out. Due to being connected in series in order to get high efficiency.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

^^ Good point, i hadn't thought of that. When you say putting foil rings around the tubes to reduce light - how do you mean? Not sure I understand?


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2015)

Cut some strips of aluminium foil and wrap the strips around the tube to block the light. You can use insulation tape and other tapes to block the light, but the UV from the tubes may/will degrade the adhesive and leave a yukky mess on the tubes.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

I thought that was what you meant, just wanted to check before i set the house on fire haha. So do we think if i block about 1/3rd of the light on each tube and run about a 4 / 5 hour photo period dosing carbon and ferts daily - it will be ok?


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2015)

spookyspike said:


> So do we think if i block about 1/3rd of the light on each tube and run about a 4 / 5 hour photo period dosing carbon and ferts daily - it will be ok


Yes it's a start. If algae starts appearing &/or plants suffering back down light levels. When I moved from T8 to T5 lights, I rotated the reflectors on the tubes to lower the light levels, but got impatient after a week of two and rotated round to full light. Plants pearled nicely but green spots of algae appeared on the glass and plants. Whoops.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

Awesome! Wish me luck tomorrow!

On a slightly different note but the same theme - would a pair of TMC gro beams 600 ultimas be sufficient light for this tank or would it need more? As mentioned I come form a reefing back ground and aquarays have been scoffed at and dont have a great track record as far as keeping coral. I didn't know if they would be better suited to a low tech planted set up. I think i could suspend a couple of these fairly easily.


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## Bacms (5 Nov 2015)

spookyspike said:


> Awesome! Wish me luck tomorrow!
> 
> On a slightly different note but the same theme - would a pair of TMC gro beams 600 ultimas be sufficient light for this tank or would it need more? As mentioned I come form a reefing back ground and aquarays have been scoffed at and dont have a great track record as far as keeping coral. I didn't know if they would be better suited to a low tech planted set up. I think i could suspend a couple of these fairly easily.



You would actually need to buy the controller unit for them as at full power they are way too much even for a high tech system with CO2 being injected. Didn't know about their bad reputation with corals I am using them in combination with my T8 unit on my Juwel vision 180 at the moment


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

^^ Yeah id just read that actually about how bright they are in planted tanks - maybe a thought for the future then, two of strips and the controller at about 15%.Food for thought! 

Its not that you cant grow coral under them, some softer corals and easier to keep LPS would be fine. I wouldn't want my SPS under them though.


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## alto (5 Nov 2015)

I suggest adding an enriched substrate layer beneath your Eco Complete, eg, Tropica Growth Substrate as this will reduce the dependency on water column nutrients (fertilizers).

As to using foil to block light from the T5 tubes, I'm slightly confused by the "ring" approach - this will still leave "rays" of higher light & "rays" of lower light across the tank area, a perforated foil that covers more evenly (or partial strip of foil???)  would seem more logical ... you can also raise the lights above the tank surface (not sure if you want to do something like this but as you're considering Aquaray's it's worth mentioning) or add an opaque glass etc layer between lamps & water (check for heat & choose suitable materials).
If you have the reflectors that rotate, you can also use these to alter light directed into the tank. 

Your 14K tubes will grow plants fine, there are growth differences with various spectra but what you will mostly notice is the color effect; you can also often choose between High Output T5 & Normal Output T5 

George Farmer has a couple recent journals with lower tech tanks (there are more videos on his youtube channel)
Superfish 60
Superfish 70

Have fun with your exciting new project


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

alto said:


> I suggest adding an enriched substrate layer beneath your Eco Complete, eg, Tropica Growth Substrate as this will reduce the dependency on water column nutrients (fertilizers).



I am using flourish root tabs, im also going to be using an automatic dosing pump ( have one spare) so that will daily dose liquid carbon and my neutro T ferts for me - so no biggie there, once set up i dont have to do much with it. 

Raising the lights isn't an option as they are build into the hood and they would look daft raised up. I'll suss something out hopefully. I was thinking I will take the reflectors off the T5s and zip tie one upside down to one of the tubes to block it completely almost. So it would be just one T5 over the tank. Would this work do we think? 

Thanks for the help all.


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## Bacms (5 Nov 2015)

alto said:


> I suggest adding an enriched substrate layer beneath your Eco Complete, eg, Tropica Growth Substrate as this will reduce the dependency on water column nutrients (fertilizers).
> 
> As to using foil to block light from the T5 tubes, I'm slightly confused by the "ring" approach - this will still leave "rays" of higher light & "rays" of lower light across the tank area, a perforated foil that covers more evenly (or partial strip of foil???)  would seem more logical ... you can also raise the lights above the tank surface (not sure if you want to do something like this but as you're considering Aquaray's it's worth mentioning) or add an opaque glass etc layer between lamps & water (check for heat & choose suitable materials).
> If you have the reflectors that rotate, you can also use these to alter light directed into the tank.



The idea is to use the foil around different areas of the two tube so for example you can cover the middle section of one and the two side sections of the other to effectively have the same output as a single tube. Using a perforated approach has essential the same effect it just more untidy and more work to get all the holes the same size I am guessing   Rotating the reflectors also seems a good idea just a bit harder to maintain constant light levels as they can be easily knocked out of position


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## alto (5 Nov 2015)

spookyspike said:


> thinking I will take the reflectors off the T5s and zip tie one upside down to one of the tubes to block it completely almost.



This seems a good way to begin - you can also alternate which tube you block if you feel some plants may need more/less light.

I've used Eco Complete in various tanks, hence my suggestion of enriched substrate  ... but you sound a much more consistent doser  (& likely aquarist) than I


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## alto (5 Nov 2015)

Bacms said:


> Using a perforated approach has essential the same effect it just more untidy and more work to get all the holes the same size


errrr I was actually planning on buying the already perforated foil


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2015)

Darkened plastic sheet is another way of reducing light level.

Talks about lumens per litre values as well as the effect of Kelvin temperature.
http://tropica.com/en/guide/make-your-aquarium-a-success/light/


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

I've done what I said as a test tonight. I've flipped the reflector on the back tube up, effectively blocking most of its out put, I've also taken the reflector off the front tube. To the eye this looks considerably dimmer / dull. 
Enough do we think? 
I'll be getting a more tropical suited tube tomorrow as well.


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## spookyspike (5 Nov 2015)

Ian will have a read of that later, thanks.


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