# Roma 200 filtration



## MrJames (21 Feb 2013)

As I have a nice 200L tank to get planted I need to decide on equipment I currently have a tetratec ex600 and hydor 200w inline heater with a 12mm in / out.which I know the filter is too small.

I've already decided I want to run a Co2 reactor on a separate pump was looking at using a DIY filter housing one unless anyone has a better way?

I looked at the APS filters as the price looked good but quality and performance problems have put me off buying one so I need some advice on a good filter, pump and powerheads for the tank to hit the 10x turnover of 2000L.

Many thanks


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## anttthony (21 Feb 2013)

I have the same tank and using the original fluval 205 along with an aquamanta efx 400 I picked up nearly new on here. Been great for me for the money. its rated at 1400 lph would be supprised if I was getting 1000 lph out of it but seems to work well through my c02 reactor  

Ant


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## MrJames (22 Feb 2013)

I wanted to go with a separate pump for the Co2 reactor as it'll give me more control over it plus I'll be using it for water changes.


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## ceg4048 (22 Feb 2013)

Hello,
		Nothing less than an FX5 or Eheim 20XX will do for this size tank if it will be CO2 injected.

Cheers,


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## alvin spencer (22 Feb 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> Nothing less than an FX5 or Eheim 20XX will do for this size tank if it will be CO2 injected.
> 
> Cheers,


 wow so everyone who owns a 200l tank has to rush out and buy a fluval fx5?
i think you have been sucked into the matrix this time clive 
alvin


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## anttthony (22 Feb 2013)

As ceg says. or maybe you could use two filters 

ant


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## MrJames (22 Feb 2013)

An FX5? Maybe a little overkill if I use a pump for the Co2 reactor that'll give more water movement through the tank as well.


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## MrJames (22 Feb 2013)

Tempted to get the Tetra EX1200 and run it and the EX600 it's only got a very slightly lower flow rate than the JBL but can get it for about £50 cheaper so not sure yet


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## MrJames (23 Feb 2013)

Right so as I can't find anything worth the extra money over the EX1200 I'll get one of those and maybe upgrade the smaller ex600 at some point, now I just need to decide on what circulation pump


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## ceg4048 (23 Feb 2013)

alvin spencer said:


> wow so everyone who owns a 200l tank has to rush out and buy a fluval fx5?


In relation to planted tanks, YES, in exactly the same way that everyone who owns 2 feet has to rush out to buy at a pair of shoes.

Cheers,


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## MrJames (23 Feb 2013)

There are quite a number of reasons I wouldn't get the FX5 I'd rather have 2xTetra EX1200's than a single FX5


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## alvin spencer (23 Feb 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> In relation to planted tanks, YES, in exactly the same way that everyone who owns 2 feet has to rush out to buy at a pair of shoes.
> 
> Cheers,


 oh now i understand
you must rush out and buy the best adidas trainers, when a pair of umbro from sports direct would do the same job
thanks clive
alvin


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## Matt Warner (23 Feb 2013)

The fx5 is the most flow you can get for the money in my opinion. The flow honestly isn't a massive white water torrent like everyone thinks! The outlets are very wide so the flow doesn't have much velocity. If the outlets were really small then it would be a torrent.


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## MrJames (23 Feb 2013)

For a start I couldn't even get the FX5 in my cabinet unless I braced the front and removed the centre section which I really don't want to do.


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## Matt Warner (23 Feb 2013)

I can't fit mine in my cabinet it's no big deal, it just sits on the floor in the corner! It's the best thing I ever bought for my tank, zero algae and lush growth! Oh and I forgot, spotlessly clean water and happy fish!


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## MrJames (24 Feb 2013)

My tank is in an alcove there isn't anywhere next to it that it could go.


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## nayr88 (24 Feb 2013)

Go for the 2 ex1200's put both with spraybars and your away

Or re mortgage and get the ehiem equivalent of the fx5


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## ceg4048 (24 Feb 2013)

alvin spencer said:


> you must rush out and buy the best adidas trainers, when a pair of umbro from sports direct would do the same job


Sorry I don't know that brand. At the Olympics medal ceremony the winners all seemed to be wearing Adidas though. The losers were probably wearing your umbro.

Cheers,


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## alvin spencer (24 Feb 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> Sorry I don't know that brand. At the Olympics medal ceremony the winners all seemed to be wearing Adidas though. The losers were probably wearing your umbro.
> 
> Cheers,


 very good ceg


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## MrJames (25 Feb 2013)

Hmmmmm I hate to admit it but ceg might be right after a lot of digging and testing my EX600 which managed a rather low 200LPH not sure the tetra will be up to the job, so need to look and see if I can modify the cabinet to fit the FX5 if not might have to look at eheim.


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## ceg4048 (25 Feb 2013)

As I mentioned, we very strongly suggest that if you intend to enrich the tank with carbon, and if you intend to use strong lighting, then you really need to pay very close attention to flow and distribution. When we look at tank sizes of 200L, this is the beginning of problems because that is up to 200 kilograms of water, and that is a lot of water to move.

CO2 diffusion rates in water are 10,000 times slower than in air, and so having poor flow in a tank will mean no ends to your troubles. It is much better to be over the top with flow than to be below the minimum threshold because flow and good distribution will erase many of our mistakes. I think people don't worry enough about setting up their tanks for success. All they can think about is how much sexy light they can pump into the tank, and that's just a train wreck waiting to happen. Flow/distribution and CO2 dissolution is THE most important aspect of a planted tank. That is why we have settled on the 10X rating rule. So if it means some inconvenience in the beginning, then just get over it and press on. The investment will reward you in the end.

Flow energy is especially important as the tank matures and as the plant biomass increases. The result is flow blockage and the attendant problems of severely decreased CO2/nutrient delivery.

It really doesn't matter what brand you get, as long as the filter is rated at 10X the tank volume. We just happen to know that the FX5 has a flow rating somewhere around 2000LPH and it 's a good price for the amount of flow it produces. The Eheim proIII series also have similar ratings. All filters deliver only half of what they are rated from the manufacturer because they are tested under the most favorable conditions such as with no filter media  and at shallow depths so that's why we work around that by calculating and playing the 10X rating game.

As nayr88 mentions, if it is impossible to fit that size in the cabinet then use two filters each with a 5X rating. You can even achieve better flow by using powerheads to augment the energy, but it is so much cleaner and easier to have that energy delivered by a single filter.

When manufacturers rate a filter for XYZ size tank, they have no idea about the requirements for a high tech tank, so their ratings are meaningless. People always assume we are over the top when we suggest a filter size that seems absurdly over the top - until they run into trouble...then they regret their choice, and all of a sudden it doesn't seem so absurd.

Do yourself a favor and get as much flow rating you can for that tank, whether it means you have to bust that cabinet wide open or whether you have to stuff it with more filters than you think you need.

Cheers,


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## nayr88 (25 Feb 2013)

Why not 2 fluval 405's 
They'll fit and there 1300lph each
Teamed with spray bars your cooking on gas 
OR
Have problems with growing plants and start threads on that and then hear the same info repeated in those threads in a months time


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## MrJames (25 Feb 2013)

Well just to make it clear I was planning on running a seperate pump for the Co2 reactor quite a large one at that was looking around 2000-3000lph the original plan was a filter intake in each corner with spray bars along the back then the Co2 pump intake in the middle and return to the tank by a twin nozzle output aiming to both sides. But if the ex1200 scales the same as my ex600 they'll only push 400lph each.


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## MrJames (25 Feb 2013)

Ok...... new question do I get the FX5 or the FX6?


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## LondonDragon (25 Feb 2013)

MrJames said:


> Ok...... new question do I get the FX5 or the FX6?


Or just get two JBL e1501 and they will fit inside the cabinet with no worries and you will have resilience in case one fails


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## O'Neil (25 Feb 2013)

You'll have to forgive the Ceg, but I gotta back him up the man really knows his shizzle, I tried to cut corners in the past and it resulted in two very frustrating failures.

I'm currently using an All Pond Solutions 1400EF for a 100 ltr tank tank I started, doing everything right this time.

What about the all pond solutions 2000EF? would that not meet the requirements for his tank?


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## Solex (25 Feb 2013)

I have a JBL e901 and e1501 on my Co2 pressurized 216l tank.
And an upaqua co2 atomizer on each pump
Ceg is helpfull and iam taking his advice very seriously 

Have a nice day!
Lexy


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## MrJames (25 Feb 2013)

I wasn't trying to cut corners just finding a solution that didn't cost a bomb and one that fits without too much trouble, as I said above I planned to use a large recirculation pump for the Co2 reactor along side the two filters but spending £180 on 2 Tetra EX1200 filters that could only move 800lph between them didn't seem appealing. 

I had looked at the JBL but two of those comes to nearly £300 which is a little ouch! 

I had looked at APS filters but seen a lot of people complaining about build quality and the flow rate dropping.

I've seen some of the manifold designs people have used on the FX5 and it looks quite handy, also is the small bio filtration media capacity for the FX5 not a problem?


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## anttthony (25 Feb 2013)

Have you looked at aquamanta? 

ant


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## O'Neil (25 Feb 2013)

MrJames said:


> I wasn't trying to cut corners just finding a solution that didn't cost a bomb and one that fits without too much trouble, as I said above I planned to use a large recirculation pump for the Co2 reactor along side the two filters but spending £180 on 2 Tetra EX1200 filters that could only move 800lph between them didn't seem appealing.
> 
> I had looked at the JBL but two of those comes to nearly £300 which is a little ouch!
> 
> ...


 
Sorry mate didn't mean to imply that you were cutting corners, I'm just not very articulate, haha.

I understand wanting to cut costs tho, I want to do the same. Unfortunately my only external filter experience is with the APS filter I have now


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## MrJames (25 Feb 2013)

I found this image of a manifold setup using an FX5 on another forum....


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## MrJames (27 Feb 2013)

As much as I love the idea of the massive FX5 there is something I can't stop thinking about...... What if it fails? How long will it take to get spare parts and get it running again? With the massive size of it you can't just go out and get a cheap temporary filter to tide you over! So think I might have to go with the idea of using 2 filters just a shame I can't afford to buy 2 of the FX5 lol


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## ceg4048 (27 Feb 2013)

Fluval FX5 Spares : ArkPetsOnline.co.uk
http://www.fluvalparts.com/
Fluval FX5 Parts & Media
Fluval FX5 Replacement Parts and Media | ThatPetPlace.com
Hagen Fluval FX5 Replacement Parts Impeller
Spare Parts / Fluval Parts - The Aquarium Shop Australia

Cheers,


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## MrJames (27 Feb 2013)

1) Wouldn't ever touch again
The rest.... I live in the UK 

Thing is say it broke down at 8pm one night if I ordered the part and got lucky it would be here in 2 days time! If I got 2 smaller filters don't worry I'd still be aiming for the 2000LPH mark between them


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## nayr88 (27 Feb 2013)

What's
If 
Buts


Will not get the baby a new hat

Buy the obvious spares. Or buy a cheap cheap filter as a back up. If the fx5 fails do a media swap and kick the other filter on.


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## MrJames (27 Feb 2013)

What if the single Fx5 broke I'd have no filter

If I had 2 filters running and one broke I'd still have a filter

Buy the obvious spares? Have you seen how much fluval charge for them? 

Fluval FX5 Impeller Assembly​ - £46.49
Fluval FX5 Motor & Impeller - £139.39​Fluval FX5 Lid Fasteners (The things that apparently break a lot) - £6.49 you've got to be kidding?  ​​ 
For the price of buying an FX5 and a cheap backup I could get 2 x 406 and run a reactor on both for the best Co2 distribution.​​


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## O'Neil (27 Feb 2013)

MrJames said:


> What if the single Fx5 broke I'd have no filter
> 
> 
> Buy the obvious spares? Have you seen how much fluval charge for them?
> ...


 
Or two APS 2000EF and spares are cheaper...........not a APS rep I promise, haha


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## nayr88 (27 Feb 2013)

MrJames said:


> What if the single Fx5 broke I'd have no filter
> 
> If I had 2 filters running and one broke I'd still have a filter
> 
> ...



Yeah fair play

Do 2 405's I've never had a fluval filter break. I don't know how people managed to break there's tbh


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## MrJames (1 Mar 2013)

I went cheap, I'll probably regret it and end up replacing them in the future but for now they'll do to get my tank up and running I got 2x APS 2000EF UV should give enough flow


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