# Two worlds [THE END]



## clonitza (13 Jul 2011)

Hi boys and girls,
After a long absence I wanted to tell you a thing or two about my aquarium.
Unfortunately I had a problem using the old account so I had to register a new one.

So.... the aquarium:





A week ago ...

*The tank*
- 70cm long x 35cm wide x 30cm tall - optiwhite glass

*Soil*
- ADA Power Sand Special S 
- ADA Forest Sand Orinocco 
- ADA Amazonia 1 

*Fertilizers* 
- TNP+

*Filtration*
- Eheim Ecco Pro 300

*Light*
- 2 x T5 24w Osram 965 + JBL SOLAR Reflect

*CO2* 
- 2Kg + Dennerle Profi 2000? + Sera solenoid valve + JBL glass diffuser + Glass CO2 tester

*Inhabitants*
- Apistogramma cacatuoides (1 pair) 
- Hemigrammus rodwayi (8)
- Otocinclus vestitus (2)
- Caridina multidentata (3)

*Plants*
- Marsilea Hirsuta
- Hemianthus Callitrichoides
- Glossostigma elatinoides
- Staurogyne repens
- Blyxa Japonica
- Micranthemum Micranthemoides
- Echinodorus Regine Hildebrandt
- Hygrophila Polysperma
- Ludwigia Arcuata
- Ammania Gracilis
- Ammania sp. Bonsai
- Rotala rotundifolia
- Rotala macrandra red
- Ranunculus papulentus
- Cryptocoryne parva
- Anchor moss
- Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides
- Hedyotis salzmannii

+ 3 new to arrive:

- Prosperpinaca palustris
- Rotala macrandra green
- Rotala sp. 'Vietnam'

I've started this setup in March (see Lush Cavern in journals) but for various reasons I couldn't balance the flow so I decided take all the hardscape out and use only plants in here. 

I had various problems with BBA, diatoms due to the decaying wood, my JBL filter stopped working so I've replaced it with an Eheim but now is on the right track. I don't know how it will look like, I just trimm and add various plants in there, see what I like, what I don't, how can I mix them to look alright. This 'scape started with 5 plant species and now I have 18 (might be others in there) and 3 new to come and I won't stop here  so it's going more to look like a collector's scape in the end 




One of my three hard working dudes

And the tank today (well ... yesterday)



I was lazy enough to pull the hardware out for a proper shooting.

No the big challenge is to turn them red, hopefully I can do this without lowering the nitrate.

Mike


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## Sentral (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Very neutral looking tank, Lots of plants in there but doesn't look overly busy!

Do you think you should move the drop checker to the other side of the tank of the diffuser for a more accurate reading?


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## clonitza (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks, glad you like it, I do keep some main plants and others just to have them, it's hard to find the ones that I want in my city so I stock them . Hopefully later this year I can buy a CO2 unit for the other tank and move the plants I don't need for this scape there. Regarding the drop checker you are right, I should move it, I've forgot it there since I had the diffuser on the left.


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## faizal (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

That's a sweet looking tank.Very neat.


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## Mark Evans (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Another nice tank. I've always liked what you've done in the past  8)


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## spyder (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*



			
				Sentral said:
			
		

> Lots of plants in there but doesn't look overly busy!



Just what I was thinking. Very clean and crisp look. Good job.


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## clonitza (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks guys glad you like it. It's my first time I have success running a "high tech" planted tank  last time I've grown more BBA than plants, now hopefully it's on the right track, learning from you guys (Mark, George, Ceg, Viktor) so cheers for that   you're doing a great job here.
I'll keep you updated, now I want to get em plants red so I've started pouring all the trace bottle I have in there 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

And the red pretzel shaped plants are in here to recover, no worries in a couple of days they will be green!




The fish are finding posing boring so they went to sleep again.

Green like this: 




Damn those green plants!

Dammit, I need to wait a month for my supplier to bring the fertilizer I've tried a long time ago for red plants, I hope it still works.  Anyway I had some fun trimming HC for the first time.

Mike


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## clonitza (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

This is how it's going to look like. The new plants still have to recover though for a proper shot:


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## Vince (17 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I really love it! It looks so natural and lively! Really inspirational to me. Makes me wonder, how did you plan where to put the different plants, because the outcome really looks natural and clean, despite the huge amount of different plants. I also like the way you mixed the powersand with the soil, gives it even a more natural touch.

Greets,

Vince


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## clonitza (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thaks Vince. I usually don't plan anything except where the swords or crypts should be planted, if I use any, or how the slope should look like. These are things, on the long term, that can't be changed very easily, moving swords is a nightmare 'cause they send their roots everywhere, except that, I can uproot any plant and move it around. Regarding plants placement I usually use 2-3 main plants and let the others to fill the gaps and make the transition from foreground to background or give a little bit of contrast to improve the tank's depth.

This is my view now and I still have a lot of work to do especially regarding trimming but I need to let some of the sterns to develop more so there's a lot of room for improvement. So I'll keep you folks updated, the next picture/s will be taken at the end of the week 

Mixing powersand and soil wasn't planned, it just happened! 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (25 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I had a little bit of spare time to take some pictures:




Notice I moved the hardware around a bit.

Looks a bit untidy after the last trimming but I'll leave it like this until the end of the week when I planned another one. I did cut blyxa, it was my first time and I've wondered if I can cut it like hairgrass and it worked, new leaves are growing and I'm happy I don't have to pull it and replant it. I try to avoid this because the soil is 2cm deep in that area.




Rotala sp Vietnam (yeah I know it should be red but ... it ain't, high nitrates over 60ppm)

Plants are heavily pearling at the end of the day but I'm still unsatisfied with the flow, I've ordered a spraybar extension from JBL, hopefully they have it stock if not, well, I have to wait until they order it from Germany.
I was planning to buy a lily pipe to improve aesthetics but I did a simulation and the flow is crap, the water goes from side to side but it doesn't turn back, I think my tank is a little bit to wide for using a lily, so I'll stick with the spraybar. 

Still waiting for the "magic" red plants fertilizer 

Mike


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## collins (25 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Looks really really good I like how it looks natural even without a hardscape as such but the plants take on the hardscape roll due to it's shaping excellently done!!!


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## clonitza (27 Jul 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks collins for your kind comment.
Changed again the diffuser placement, it's gonna stay on the right side until the up atomizer arrives. 
So, another trimming another picture:



This is the plants final placement not going to move them until the final shot, though I still have a lot of work until then.
I'll try this weekend assembling the background lighting and try a shot without hardware.

Mike


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## clonitza (12 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Busy installing the UP Atomizer, until a new tank shot enjoy the one with my lady and her nursery:




Mike


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## George Farmer (12 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Could do with a black background.


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

True! 

I usually don't take pictures before trimming but today's an exception:




Unfortunately the chinese guy sent me the Up Atomizer for a larger hose than I have so even if I was able to fit it, it just kept leaking. I've replaced it with an external reactor (Aquatic Nature Tornado) for now.

Mike


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Try to imagine the mess after trying to pull out some blyxa from the middle


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## Mark Evans (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I agree, a black background would suit much more


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I'll try to find one mate 

Trimming over, had to cut all the shaded leaves and now going to take a shower after that I need to remove all the hardware and clean the glass. Weekend fun! 




Leftovers.


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

A little shy dad ...


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Work done!

Last full tank shot before AGA, next one shall remain hidden until the results are out 



That doesn't mean I won't add other pictures.

Have a nice weekend!

Mike


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Light added on the left.




Light setup:
2x24w T5 above
2x24w T5 background
1x13w PL right, 1x20w PL left


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## clonitza (16 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

As I'm bored to death the following weeks until the final shot I wanted to test some algaecides:
- EasyCarbo & Algexit from Easy Life.

The algae that I want to exterminate are:
- BBA & Spyro

Keep you updated.


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## Tom (16 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Really like that Sword  I've started to appreciate them more recently.


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## grathod (17 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Just come across your post, very nice and simple setup, well done. What is the luminaire that you are using mate?


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## clonitza (17 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks mates, glad you like it!

@Tom - yes, especially the colored ones. I want to replace it in the future with Aponogeton madagascariensis.
@grathod - An old Resun luminaire modified for T5.


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## clonitza (26 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I love these shots when I don't have to remove the hardware or clean the glass. 



My algae experiment still undergoing without any noticeable results ... not that I care too much 

And one shot with "the man" .. little one of course .. still has to eat his cereals:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6207/608 ... 696e_b.jpg

Mike


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## clonitza (26 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

No more fishing around .. back to work:


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## clonitza (26 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Trimming over:



C ya next week or so ...

Mike


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## wearsbunnyslippers (26 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

very nice!

everything works so well..


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## clonitza (27 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks mate, it really does, I just have to do some adjustments.

Changing the water:


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## clonitza (27 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

For George & Mark a black background test:



The colors are just alien but it flattens the scape and the sense of depth is lost.
Anyway I like it very much and I'll try one without the hardware in the future near the photoperiod end so it will look like a starry night with all the bubbles around.

Mike


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## clonitza (30 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I'm still not content with some plants development so I've done a couple of changes to see if they make any difference. Some plants are stagnant (more or less shaded so I've moved them in brighter areas) and the other though are growing good the leaf shape and coloring is just average, I want brighter reds, broader leaves and side shots.

The targeted plants are:

Rotala rotundifolia (growing good but I want longer leaves and orange/pink coloring, most of them are yellow/green)
Rotala macrandra (growing good but I want broader leaves, side shots and brighter red)
Ammania gracilis (slow grower but nice coloring, I want to improve the growth rate)
Proserpinaca palustris (growing very good but I want broader leaves)
Ludwigia arcuata (stagnant, hope I can improve the growth)
Rotala vietnam (growing good, I want to improve coloring, now is yellow/green, hope it will turn into orange/pink).

The old specs:
2xOsram 965 *24W* with reflectors (*6500K*) / *7h* period

The new specs:
2xJBL Solar Tropic T5 *28W* with reflectors (*4000k*) / *9h* period

Increased the CO2 addition, NPK+trace the same, I want to lower nitrates more to improve coloring.

Speaking of dosing:

Daily:
2.5ml TPN+
2 x Dennerle A1 Daily
2ml EasyCarbo

Weekly after water change:
4ml TPN+
7ml Algexit (testing it)

Keep you folks updated, if anyone's interested in my experiments.

Mike


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## Mark Evans (30 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I'd be interested to see the results. My nemesis is getting red plants, red.

I prefer the white now we have a comparison.


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## clonitza (31 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I'll keep you updated mate if anything special happens.

Yesterday's conclusions:
- a real boost on pearling;
- visible growth;
- leaf shape and coloring more or less the same.

Lowered TPN+ to 1.5ml/daily.


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## clonitza (31 Aug 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Speaking of pearling:


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## clonitza (2 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Think I hit the jackpot, Mark.
More about this tomorrow ...


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## clonitza (2 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Sorry I couldn't clean the glass, my apisto has new eggs again and I don't want to stress it with that or removing the hardware the following week.





I'm happy with the new lights (4000K), the plants are starting to blush (the ones that are not shaded) and it's also excellent for photography, when setting the WB to render it white the background lit with 8000K tubes gets a little blue tint.


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## Tom (2 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Very nice indeed


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## clonitza (2 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks Tom.

Just ordered Green Gain & ECA from HK just for an old curiosity of mine.
Hope they arrive in a week so I can test them before the final shot. 






Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (8 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

The tank is doing fine more or less, I've decided to leave the reflectors out, there's too much light for this shallow tank with 2x28w + reflectors. I loved the pearling and the fact that the plants turned red but it's too hard to maintain the tank, I need to trim h. polysperma every day so it doesn't shade everything around.

The last full tank test shot is coming on Saturday and the next week I'll do the final one. Keep your eyes on this topic for updates. 

Best,
Mike


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## clonitza (9 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

A different angle:




[EDIT] A short story for those interested, you can see in the picture how I trim blyxa, just like regular lawn, doesn't really matter how short, it will back grow back in a week. I prefer this method it's much easier.


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## George Farmer (9 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Great variety of textures and colour.  The balance between a wild-look and contrived composition is impressive.  I like your style.


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## clonitza (9 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I try to do my best. Thanks mate for your kind comment. You've made my day!


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## peke (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Nice looking tank and plants!   I always think by myself how you get such great pics, i have a canon eos550d with efs 18-135mm lens but i cannot get such great pictures as you guys....Wuts the secret


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

looking sweet mate! you need to let me come and do that 'blue' background thing for you


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## clonitza (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> looking sweet mate! you need to let me come and do that 'blue' background thing for you


   Sure mate, any time.

Peke take some photography classes, they helped me a bit. 
I'm using a 450D hopefully at the end of the year a 60D and next year a 24-105 f4 for now I'm happy with my Taks (28mm f3.5 & 50mm f1.8 ).

Mike


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Sure mate, any time.



I'll book my tickets!   (just joking)


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## clonitza (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I'll bring the mountain to Mohammed. No worries! 

So the reflectors are back in, I love to look at plants pearling too much  what can I say, I'm addicted.
I've also moved around the hardware a bit: spray bar to the left, powerhead out. Still struggling with BBA here and there, nothing to worry about, the powerhead improved nothing unfortunately just made it worse. Let's see if this time it won't spread that fast.

Speaking of pearling:



Didiplis diandra




Some rotalas .. sorry for the bad focus.

Mike


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## peke (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Nice looking pics...Dont you use some external lights?


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## clonitza (11 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Nope but the light setup is kinda strong .. shallow tank (30cm) and 2x24w T5's with reflectors that gives me an exposure of 1/100 at f3.5, ISO100. 

Picture taken with SMC Takumar 55mm f1.8 (second picture):
1972: SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.8/55 - rubberized focus ring, open aperture metering on Spotmatic F, ES and ESII

Nice lens, bought from UK 

Cheers,
Mike

[EDIT]Forgot .. I use 2x24w to light the back


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## cibserg (14 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I like your style Mihai. And your photo's too. 
Keep on scaping!


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## Tom (14 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Picture taken with SMC Takumar 55mm f1.8 (second picture):
> 1972: SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.8/55 - rubberized focus ring, open aperture metering on Spotmatic F, ES and ESII



I've said it before, but... I love that lens   I haven't taken near enough pictures recently   Bought a load of film, but zero inspiration!


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## Ian Holdich (14 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

looks great Mike, good luck with the AGA!


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## clonitza (14 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks! Glad you like it.  
Tom, mate, autumn is coming so we'll find plenty of inspiration. I haven't taken my camera outside lately either. 

I'm going to use the last full tank picture I've taken for AGA:



I wish I could've come with a better one for this contest but it's a pain keeping plants from spreading even though I do daily trimming.

Last night I've started to prepare it for the next phase, that means I've stripped off all the plants that develop long roots like blyxa, staurogyne and replaced HC with glosso. I'm going to keep some h. polysperma here and there but it's going to be replaced soon with rotalas.

Looks a bit like a construction yard right now but I'm sure it will look better soon. It really needed a good clean.
Next time I swear I'm not going to use Power Sand anymore, I've spent two hours picking it after pulling the plants.   

Cheers,
Mike (Mihai)


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## clonitza (17 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

I've been cleaning this little monster all week ... hopefully it will recover soon.
Few rocks added and some new rotalas should arrive next week to fill the gaps.





(the images are resized a bit awkward ...)


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## clonitza (18 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Daily routine: trimming ... moving plants around ...


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## clonitza (23 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Mr Nobody aka me decided to take a stand against the current monochromatic trend in aquascaping and just enjoy trimming and playing with beautiful plants. Find this more entertaining than trade my soul to the devil.   For me, posting here on UKAPS is more than enough.

So, let's get back to the tank. 




Added more red rotala and a couple of rotala sp. mini on the right side.

Thanks for looking.
Mike


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## Ian Holdich (23 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

nice to see the red in there mate, love the way you have worked it around the sword.


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## Jim (23 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Very nice. How often would you trim?


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## clonitza (24 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic*

Thanks mates! 

Ian I hope I can keep them as red & healthy as they are now, always a challenge, a CO2 one. 

Jim I work every day in this tank but usually I trim a plant once a week or every two weeks if it's a slow/moderate grower. I try to avoid them shading others, a little bit hard with this kind of arrangement and a tank height of only 30cm not counting the gravel.

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (24 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic & little brother*

A quick shot of my low tech


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## clonitza (29 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic & little brother*

Back to the main tank, not much happened, plants are growing nice, replanted glosso to thicken it a bit.

gUSH glassware is on the way, I have to thank Tobi from aquasabi.de again but I first need to see they arrived in one piece. 

As for the new ADA ferts (Green Gain & ECA) they really boost plant growth after trimming but they don't improve coloring, neither greens nor reds. So if anyone's looking for a way to get his plants nicely colored think about lowering nitrates and upping the light slightly above moderate levels, on the other hand if you need them to display dark greens lowering the light/shading them is the solution. 

A new picture soon.


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## clonitza (29 Sep 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic & little brother*

And the ugly photo


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## clonitza (5 Oct 2011)

*Re: Plant-O-matic & little brother*

After chasing all day the courier throughout the city I finally managed to put my hands on the package with the gUSH glassware. Stay tuned for updates.


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## clonitza (8 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

After the long waiting of my lily's it's time for this aquascape to go into its final stage.
I've spent all night cleaning it and replanting everything, it wasn't an easy task, took me around 5 hours last night but I enjoy doing this if I don't do it everyday. 
I'll try and keep a more strict trimming and maintaining schedule from now on and hopefully it will look as planned.





Thanks for looking,
Mike


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## clonitza (8 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*


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## Sebastian Costin (8 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Very nice! With Lily pipes look great and the arrangement is more light now.


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## clonitza (8 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Thanks Sebi  

Last photo for today:


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## flygja (9 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

That is nicely minimalistic. Your blue wall also helps   The only problem is the heater sticking out!


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## clonitza (9 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Thanks mate, fortunately I can remove easily the heater but this time I wanted in the shot, soon I'll replace it but now the most important thing is to upgrade my photo gear with a strobe kit, winter is coming and I want something to play with. 

The most joy a tank brings I think are its inhabitants, I love capturing them in the photos though it's not an easy task every time with a manual lens.









Cheers,
Mike


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## Mark Evans (9 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

This is lovely. I wish though, you'd let it grow before moving plants around. It was looking good, then you changed it


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## clonitza (9 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Thanks Mark. I had to change it, I didn't want to do that but, unfortunately, there were many spots with plenty of algae and it needed a good clean, I also wanted to limit the fast grower's number as they were shading the other plants around. Hopefully this time the things will turn out fine, if not, I'm a man with endless patience.


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## clonitza (9 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

The last photo for today, the DOF is a little bit shallow, I'll try another one next time.




Hemigrammus erythrozonus


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## flygja (10 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Your photography is also excellent.


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## clonitza (10 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Thanks, my photos are nice but still lack the artistic touch but I'm sure they'll improve in time .. I'm still a novice. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (12 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Still a little bit of diatoms triggered by recent trimming but the tanks is doing fine, just wanted to post another photo with my fish.


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## clonitza (14 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

A small update:


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## mattb180 (14 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

Love the fish in this tank!


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## cibserg (15 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - a new beginning*

This is gorgeous, Mihai. So clean and simple. I hope you will have the time and the patience to keep it like this when the plants will grow. 
All it needs now is a good dense Glossostigma carpet.


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## clonitza (15 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Thanks. You're right Sergiu I need patience for the plants to grow, I need to thicken the bushes all around the back.
So since I've a nice collection of branches I decided to put some in. This was the idea I had in mind but I wanted to wait a little bit after the re-scape so all the dirt was sucked by the filter.






Cheers,
Mike


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## Tony Swinney (25 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Hi Mike

This is looking great, and has nice potential too   Once that glosso carpets it'll look lovely.

The blue background is nice too, and if you can get a smoother gradation to white it'll be super nice 

Tony


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## clonitza (25 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Thanks Tony, glad you like it. 

This one will be more of an underwater scape with plants grown near the surface. My main goal is to have a lotus flower in the final shot for that I need to make its leaves cover the surface, kinda tricky but not impossible, not sure how big the leaves will be and if they'll have enough space in my little tank, we'll see.

Regarding the background light, well, I'll order a strobe kit from ebay tomorrow to solve the lighting during the photo sessions, hope it will arrive 'till Xmas.   

A new photo soon.

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (26 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

The promised photo, hope you like it .. you can scroll to see how it evolved during the past week or so. 




Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (27 Oct 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

The strobe kit is on it's way from UK so the next shots will be done using it. This is going to be a real challenge!


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## clonitza (3 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Strobe kit arrived in perfect condition two days ago. I haven't got any chance to test them properly, just a background lighting test to see how it spreads and I'm very happy how it went. The real photo session will be done Saturday or Sunday depending on my schedule.

The algae/plant growth tests I've been running the last two years came to an end this week. I don't need to run them further since there won't be any notable surprises. Hardly think there are people interested in my results so I won't go on and write a story. 

To be continued ...


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## flygja (3 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Tell us!


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## clonitza (3 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

OK then.

I had success running low lighted tanks with sediments under the gravel and low dosing but every time I tried high lighting I failed for the simple reason that I haven't had enough flow so the nastiness the plants are releasing during photo period are driven away from them into the filter where they are processed by bacteria.

How do I measure flow to know it's right, well I don't try to follow the 10x rule but to look at the drop checker.
I place it in the area with the lowest flow away from the CO2 diffuser. If it's blue before the CO2 starts and lime green when lights are on that means the water is distributed all around the tank and gas exchange is done correctly. Ideally will be to have it blue before lights are off.

Why it's not OK to have it yellow all day, I'm not a biologist but I'm guessing that if the PH & O2 stay low all day the bacterial activity is slowed down and you are getting an *unprocessed organic matter build up that is further used by algae to develop* (you can notice it very easy, surface scum, slimy glass etc.).

It's easy to improve the flow, just add one or a couple of powerful wave makers and make sure the water follows a circular movement around the tank. Also don't be afraid of having surface movement, the higher it is the better the gas exchange, just increase the CO2 addition or buy a better reactor if the surface movement drives the CO2 out too fast. Filling the CO2 bottle is rather cheap, having trouble with algae on the other hand is not.




My current hardware set-up

You'll notice I don't talk about dosing, it doesn't matter, there are lots of good approaches, PPS & ADA style (more or less the same), EI, mine (I dose everything daily) etc. The only thing you must avoid is to have the tank deprived of nutrients, a tank deprived of nutrients won't have algae blooms if the flow is optimal and you have enough biological filtration (if not ... BEWARE) but the plants will have stunned growth and will decay over time depending on the species and their needs.

Do the light level have any importance, actually it does, every time you add more you need more flow and CO2, more flow because the organic matter released is directly proportional with the light added.

In the end for this 70l tank I'm running a 2000l/h wave maker and a 700l/h external filter. This gives me a 38x flow and I kinda need to increase it because I don't have enough gas exchange but I'm going to keep it like this for awhile until I'll replace the filter with an Eheim wet&dry.

A nice article to summarize the importance of having high gas exchange in your tank:
http://www.lumcon.edu/education/Resourc ... Matter.htm

Hope I've been more or less clear.

Comments are welcome, if any.

Mike

P.S. Gotta thank UKAPS for reaching this conclusion.


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## dw1305 (3 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Hi all,


> Why it's not OK to have it yellow all day, I'm not a biologist but I'm guessing that if the PH & O2 stay low all day the bacterial activity is slowed down and you are getting an unprocessed organic matter build up that is further used by algae to develop (you can notice it very easy, surface scum, slimy glass etc.).


 I don't think that this is the reason for the surface scum etc. In a high productivity system everything is enhanced, the plants grow more quickly, but they are "leaky" structures, and are constantly losing sugars, lipids and proteins to the surrounding water. These substrates support the growth of bacteria, the more substrate you have the more bacteria, and I should imagine that many of these visible signs are a mixture of the substrates and their bacteria.

During lights on, when the plants are photosynthesising, the water column will be saturated with oxygen, you could still have problems with the O2/CO2 ratio, but because you have more O2 you can ramp the CO2 up. I think Tom ("plantbrain") uses modified trickle filters to ensure that he always has high O2 whilst running at high CO2 levels. If the CO2 was still high when the lights went out, you could quickly run into problems as the O2 levels fall. 

This is the situation during lights off, the entire biomass (including plants and bacteria) is still respiring, but there is no CO2 being utilised by photosynthesis and no O2 being evolved, and the natural level of CO2 will rise. We can reduce this CO2 by increased water flow, which will increase the gas exchange surface area, or by direct aeration which will increase the O2/CO2 ratio. 

I also think you can ignore the pH depression from the dissolved CO2. Water that is naturally base poor and full of tannins (and other anti-microbial agents) will depress bacterial activity, particularly as the pH gets below pH5. This isn't the case here, what you have is water with all the nutrients etc available, but with the pH depressed by the constant addition of CO2.  You can think of it like "orange juice", you had "orange juice", you've added CO2 and now you have a slightly lower pH and "sparkling orange juice", but nothing else has changed.

cheers Darrel


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## clonitza (3 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Cheers for input Darrel, I'll answer your post tomorrow but for now here are the water test results at the end of the photo period: KH - 0 (or close), can't test the ph properly, it's bellow tester's scale (5-10).

I uploaded into the previous post the photo. Need to clean the watermarks on the glass next time. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (4 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Told ya nobody cares about text updates


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## dw1305 (4 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Hi all,


> ......here are the water test results at the end of the photo period: KH - 0 (or close), can't test the ph properly, it's bellow tester's scale (5-10).


 OK, that sounds like the carbonate reserve has been completely depleted and this means that there isn't a carbonate ~ CO2 equilibrium (details here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate#Calcination_equilibrium>)

CO32- +2 H2O is in equilibrium with HCO3- + H2O + OH- is in equilibrium with H2CO3 +2 OH-
H2CO3 +2 H2O is in equilibrium with HCO3- + H3O+ + H2O is in equilibrium with CO32- +2 H3O+

And it is the ratio of the  hydronium ion (H3O+) relative to hydroxide (OH-) that determines a solution's pH. You have lots of H3O+ ions and no (proxy) OH- ions. The pH can keep on falling as there is no reserve of carbonate buffering and you have relatively high levels of CO2.

How relevant this pH effect is open to question, I'm not a fish physiologist, but Clive wrote this:


> _Lets look at the opposite case. CO2 causes the water to be very acidic by lowering the pH of the water. We know that CO2 is a highly toxic substance. But what is the fundamental nature of the toxicity? is it because it causes the pH of the water column to fall? No. It's because CO2 in the water column prevents the fishes body from purging itself of the CO2 generated internally. Normally, CO2 travels from the blood, out to the water from across the gill membrane. High CO2 pressure within the water column prevents this exchange, so the CO2 inside the fishes bloodstream builds to high levels. that then lowers the pH inside the fish's blood. That causes all sorts of problems if their system is unable to control the internal drop in pH. The fish could not care less about the pH drop externally. It is the internal chemical reactions that causes problems and those internal problems are caused by the dissolved CO2 of the water, not the pH of the water._


 <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18116&p=185726&hilit=+carbonate+dKH#p185726> 

Personally I'd just add a little more carbonate buffering, you could use potassium bi-carbonate (KHCO3) or the mix at "James Planted Tank" <http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm>.


> 1.5g NaHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
> 1.8g KHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
> 1.2g K2CO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH


cheers Darrel


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## clonitza (4 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

My fish are alright, most of them are soft water fish, they don't seem to be bothered. 
The PH drop is more or less due to the RO water I use and acids from Amazonia & wood. I usually keep the drop checker green.
I did some buffering yesterday, my aim is around 2-3 dKH not for the PH sake but to improve a bit the bacterial activity to break the waste that keeps building in my tank.

Hope I can find a cheap KHCO3 / K2CO3 source. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## dw1305 (5 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Hi all,


> My fish are alright, most of them are soft water fish, they don't seem to be bothered.
> The PH drop is more or less due to the RO water I use and acids from Amazonia & wood. I usually keep the drop checker green. I did some buffering yesterday, my aim is around 2-3 dKH not for the PH sake but to improve a bit the bacterial activity to break the waste that keeps building in my tank.


 Seems sensible, I would have expected that your fish would be all right, I'm pretty sure that pH is largely irrelevant to them (although not to fish from heavily buffered water). 


> Hope I can find a cheap KHCO3 / K2CO3 source.


 You could use always use sodium bicarbonate /carbonate (NaHCO3 / Na2CO3), they wouldn't offer the K+ source, but the they would have a similar effect on dKH.

cheers Darrel


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## clonitza (5 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

Thanks Darrel, I have some sodium bicarbonate handy. Do you know if there is a safe level of sodium for plants?

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (22 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - tarantula*

The beauty and the beast:





Nothing spectacular happened lately so I won't add any full tank shots.
As the algae issues are more or less over I'm continuing the red plants saga by slowly dropping the nutrients levels using large water changes. Nitrates were a little bit high ~60ppm and after a week are around ~20ppm and I'm aiming 10ppm or less.
I switched the 2x28w bulbs to 2x24w so the plants grow a little bit slower and increased the CO2 addition (I think I have now ~3-4bps). 
Still have some surface scum so I know I need to do more water changes before the DOC levels drop to minimum and I won't be stuck having the ugly surface extractor in the tank.
Hope it turns around nicely if not back to the drawing board. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (25 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

Instead of grabbing a pint and relaxing I'm spending the beautiful Friday night cleaning the tank and taking photos of it. 





Hope you like it, if not, well .. no worries I like it for you 

Cheers,
Mike


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## LondonDragon (25 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

Looks so crisp and natural, coming along really nice, the planting choice works really well, congrats


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## clonitza (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

Thanks Paulo, there are many things to be done here, especially regarding the lawn. I've tried glosso only but it doesn't look that natural so I'm going to mix it with HC and some other plants. I'm planning also to add more wood and maybe some mosses on it to see how it looks.

The CO2 diffusion also isn't the best, the JBL's ceramic ring holes get bigger and bigger in time and requires replacement, kinda expensive on the long run,  so I've ordered the new UP atomizer, I'll write a review about it after it arrives. 




Why the twin diffuser and not the single? Well I'm planning on using one tube and switch with the other when I'm cleaning it.

Cheers,
Mike


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## LondonDragon (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

You got a link for that new atomizer? Looks good


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## clonitza (26 Nov 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

Here's the link.


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## clonitza (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: Two worlds - Mothership*

And this journal has come to an end as I'm planning a rescape.   














Thanks for looking everybody and see you in a couple of weeks.   

Mike


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