# Looking for cheap fertiliser recommendations.



## Greengeek (4 Mar 2022)

Hi everyone.

Can anyone recommend a cheaper way to dose trace and macro fertilisers, maybe mixing my own for example with dry ingredients? A ready made dry mix or a receipt to make my own 2 part dosing mix?  Plus where to buy? 

Basically I’m spending a small fortune every month on pre made fertiliser for my tanks. I contacted a dry ferts company asking for recommendations but unfortunately they said without CO2 I’d just be risking algae? Can you really not use dry ferts etc on a low tech tank? 

I don’t have algae issues currently, all tanks are mature and lighting adjusted so algae is not a issue.  I do use fertilisers that contain both trace elements *and* macronutrients ie Tropica Plant Growth Specialised or Neutro+ plant fertiliser etc, I use the ferts with NPK as I have low no3 and PO4 issues probably due to using  RODI water,  low stocking levels, high plant loads and weekly water changes. 

But my plants in all my tanks high tech and low, look like they are still not at there best, a yellowish tone to them. I think in part because the no3 and PO4 is still practically unmeasurable?  

I think maybe dosing the trace elements separately from the macro so I can increase NPK without increasing trace might be a solution to try?

I don’t want to run CO2 on my 1,200l tank as it’s gravity fed sump drives of CO2 incredibly effectively, even with the pipe entering the sump 12 inches under water it’s like a jacuzzi. I tried over 18 months running CO2 using 2 x fire extinguishers and was replacing them nearly monthly even with inline diffusers and reactors…I gave up the CO2 as my wallet was moaning almost as much as my husband at the money I was spending on refills. 

Tanks look like this at the moment, plant growth is slowish and can you see the leaves are yellowish? 
1,200l (display + sump volume combined)
















Some of my other tanks:









Can anyone recommend a cheap way to dose trace and macro, mixing my own for example with dry ingredients? A ready made dry mix or a receipt to make my own 2 part dosing mix?


----------



## Hufsa (4 Mar 2022)

APF sells a pretty popular starter kit, or you could source the salts yourself from anywhere you like really.
The most common salts to use are; KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 for macros, a premade trace blend for iron and traces, and MgSO4.
Most have enough calcium in their water from either their tap or from a remineralization salt.
MgSO4 (magnesium) is not commonly found in tapwater in the UK, but should make up a decent portion of most premade remineralizers.
Sometimes a different iron source is recommended in addition to the iron in the trace mix, this is mostly for those with higher PH.
Ascorbic acid and Potassium sorbate are used as preservatives.

I highly recommend mixing up your own ferts, you save a lot of money 
Let me know if anything I wrote is unclear


----------



## dw1305 (4 Mar 2022)

Hi all,


Greengeek said:


> Can anyone recommend a cheaper way to dose trace and macro fertilisers, maybe mixing my own for example with dry ingredients? A ready made dry mix or a receipt to make my own 2 part dosing mix? Plus where to buy?


The cheapest would be <"Miracle Gro", but "Solufeed 2: 1: 4 mix"> would be my suggestion. £14 delivered from the <"Solufeed shop front">, I bought a kilo myself today.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Greengeek (4 Mar 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The cheapest would be <"Miracle Gro", but "Solufeed 2: 1: 4>" mix would be my suggestion. £14 delivered from the <"Solufeed shop front">, I bought a kilo myself today.
> 
> cheers Darrel


That’s perfect thank you!


----------



## Greengeek (4 Mar 2022)

Hufsa said:


> APF sells a pretty popular starter kit, or you could source the salts yourself from anywhere you like really.
> The most common salts to use are; KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 for macros, a premade trace blend for iron and traces, and MgSO4.
> Most have enough calcium in their water from either their tap or from a remineralization salt.
> MgSO4 (magnesium) is not commonly found in tapwater in the UK, but should make up a decent portion of most premade remineralizers.
> ...


 This is what I’m after especially the receipt. Thank you.


----------



## Greengeek (4 Mar 2022)

Hufsa said:


> APF sells a pretty popular starter kit, or you could source the salts yourself from anywhere you like really.
> The most common salts to use are; KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4 for macros, a premade trace blend for iron and traces, and MgSO4.
> Most have enough calcium in their water from either their tap or from a remineralization salt.
> MgSO4 (magnesium) is not commonly found in tapwater in the UK, but should make up a decent portion of most premade remineralizers.
> ...


Purchased the kit, that will get me started and I can use my Jecod auto doser. Thanks so much, really appreciated.


----------



## Courtneybst (4 Mar 2022)

Greengeek said:


> Purchased the kit, that will get me started and I can use my Jecod auto doser. Thanks so much, really appreciated.


Just note that the recipe it comes with is fairly lean. In my experience I had to increase the dosage because of my heavy plant mass.


----------



## John q (4 Mar 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The cheapest would be <"Miracle Gro", but "Solufeed 2: 1: 4>" mix would be my suggestion. £14 delivered from the <"Solufeed shop front">, I bought a kilo myself today.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Darrel is correct... However... just  be aware this product contains urea...


Greengeek said:


> Purchased the kit, that will get me started


It will get you started that's the main thing.


Courtneybst said:


> Just note that the recipe it comes with is fairly lean.


It's lean in some trace elements but certainly not iron. 😛


----------



## tdc999 (24 Mar 2022)

Been reading this article.
I make my own dry ferts,  macro and micro.
I am having problems sourcing CSM+B trace elements.
I am currently working and living / working in northern Germany.
Would there be an alternative to CSM+B that I could mix myself.
Thanks


----------



## dw1305 (24 Mar 2022)

Hi all, 


tdc999 said:


> I am having problems sourcing CSM+B trace elements.
> I am currently working and living / working in northern Germany.
> Would there be an alternative to CSM+B that I could mix myself.


Any micro-element mix should do. @zozo (Marcel) is Dutch, but he may have some suggestions?

<"YaraVita"> might be a possibility? or <"Solufeed sodium free">? You maybe interested in <"this thread">.  @Happi might be your best bet for advising you on an optimal mix. I have a bit of a <"_laissez faire_"> attitude to <"micro-element dosing">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo (24 Mar 2022)

Sporenelementen (CSM+B)
					

Onze sporen elementen zijn van het merk Plantex en importeren wij zelf rechtstreeks uit Canada. CSM+B staat bekend om zijn uitgebalanceerde sporenelementen en is tevens een belangrijk ingredient van onze plantenvoeding.




					www.aquariumbemesting.nl
				



But, it's Plantex from Canada...



> Sorry, but this product is (temporarily) unavailable.



The alternative he currently offers is Tenso Cocktail, he says it's the same except it contains a tad more Ferro and Calcium.








						Sporenelementen (Tenso cocktail)
					

In tegenstelling tot CSM+B bevat de Tenso cocktail meerdere soorten ijzer en ook calcium. De Tenso cocktail lost tevens veel makkelijker op dan CSM+B. Door onderstaand recept te volgen blahblahblahblah u zelf een goede basis plantenvoeding maken.




					www.aquariumbemesting.nl
				



He sends to Germany... 

Southern neighbours BE, probably the same source...









						Sporenelementen (CSM+B) 50 gr
					

Sporenelementen (CSM+B)Inhoud: 50 grOnze sporen elementen zijn van het merk Plantex en importeren wij zelf rechtstreeks uit Canada. CSM+B staat bekend om zijn uitgebalanceerde sporenelementen en is tevens een belangrijk ingredient van onze plantenvoeding.EG-Meststof.



					www.aquarush.be
				



The same story sold out.

The UK maybe? Seems still in tock?...








						CSM+B Trace Elements Ready MIX £3.99 | Aqua Plants Care
					

The ready mix of CSM+B follows a recipe of the most popular micro elements mix in the history of aquarium plants fertilisers. Simply mix in 500ml of distilled, RO or boiled water. 10g CSM+B mix with 500ml water, 1ml solution per 100 l of tank water yields a concentration of 0.015ppm Fe.




					aquaplantscare.uk


----------



## Hanuman (25 Mar 2022)

@Greengeek Now that you have been saturated with information, time to get your hands dirty with the < IFC calculator >


----------



## Kezzab (25 Mar 2022)

Hanuman said:


> @Greengeek Now that you have been saturated with information, time to get your hands dirty with the < IFC calculator >


That way madness lies...


----------



## Vsevolod Stakhov (1 Apr 2022)

I'm using Solufeed fertilizers for quite a long time in my tanks. Here are EI dosings for it:

Macro: Solufeed 2-1-4 - 75g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives us 5ppm NO3 (equivalent) 0.7ppm PO4 and 2ppm K; I dose that *three* times per week as per EI dosage:
Micro: Solufeed TEC-SF (not TEC!) - 63g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives 0.1ppm Fe + traces; I dose that *twice* per week
Fe: Solufeed FeDTPA - 8g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives 0.1ppm Fe only; I dose that *three* times per week

Micro and Fe must be kept in a dark place in a non-transparent bottles preferrably, as they intend to be destructed by light pretty quickly. I also add 7ppm K and 5ppm Mg on each water change as our tap water is very poor in these elements. I'm adding extra Fe instead of traces because Tec-SF lacks Iron comparing to other traces, and I'm using DTPA as one of my tanks uses pure tap water which is very hard and quite alkaline for EDTA. There are no issues with Urea in macro - vise-versa, I have found that some plants such as Mermaid weed grows much, much better with Urea comparing to pure NO3 options.

I use this dosing for three my tanks without any significant issues, including a rainwater tank with some pretty sensitive plants (and shrimps), such as eriocaulons sp and Ludwigia Inclinata sp. White:









I have no algae issues with these fertilisers (but I'm a fan of overfiltration), I don't even clean glasses at all.


----------



## plantnoobdude (1 Apr 2022)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> I'm using Solufeed fertilizers for quite a long time in my tanks. Here are EI dosings for it:
> 
> Macro: Solufeed 2-1-4 - 75g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives us 5ppm NO3 (equivalent) 0.7ppm PO4 and 2ppm K; I dose that *three* times per week as per EI dosage:
> Micro: Solufeed TEC-SF (not TEC!) - 63g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives 0.1ppm Fe + traces; I dose that *twice* per week
> ...


have observed same with urea. am currently trying out nh4no3. anyway, if you take out media in your filter you will should able to maximize urea availability. plants will uptake it fairly quickly so should be no issues there.
anyways, your dosing is quite far from EI and is closer to @Happi  's approach. High N low K low P and moderate traces.
my tank is dosed to 0.083ppm Fe plus traces and 2ppm N (8ppm no3 from urea and nh4no3). 0.88ppm Po4 and 3ppm K ( a bit higher than usually.
above dosing is per week and proves very effective.

also im not seeing ludwigia white in any of the photos? very nice tanks by the way.


----------



## Vsevolod Stakhov (1 Apr 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> anyways, your dosing is quite far from EI


Hum, the cumulative weekly doses are:
15ppm NO3
13ppm K
2.1ppm PO4
0.5ppm Fe
5.5ppm Mg

I'm under impression it is quite close to the EI dosage (at least, according to the charts on rotalabutterfly).


plantnoobdude said:


> im not seeing ludwigia white in any of the photos


It could probably be seen on the first photo near Lagenadra, but it is quite shaded and overgrown by Rotala H'ra - I'm too lazy to fix it


----------



## plantnoobdude (1 Apr 2022)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> Hum, the cumulative weekly doses are:
> 15ppm NO3
> 13ppm K
> 2.1ppm PO4
> ...


"5ppm NO3 (equivalent) 0.7ppm PO4 and 2ppm K"
is what you said before. x3
that'll be 15ppm No3, 2.1 ppm Po4, and 6ppm K. quite far from standard EI. have you tried lowering the dose to maybe no3 as proxy 10ppm?


----------



## Vsevolod Stakhov (1 Apr 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> 6ppm K


But I've also mentioned that I add 7ppm K (on K2SO4) and 5ppm Mg (on anhydrous MgSO4) after each water change. By the way, there is another Solufeed fertilizer that has 9:7:36 proportion, presumably having all N on KNO3 salt. However, I have not tried it personally, as 2:1:4 works fine for me. The reasons why my numbers are a bit lower than full EI is that I've just used 15ppm of NO3 as a main upper limit for everything. With 2:1:4 it implied additional K to be added, with 9:7:36 I'd probably skip that.


----------



## plantnoobdude (1 Apr 2022)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> But I've also mentioned that I add 7ppm K (on K2SO4) and 5ppm Mg (on anhydrous MgSO4) after each water change. By the way, there is another Solufeed fertilizer that has 9:7:36 proportion, presumably having all N on KNO3 salt. However, I have not tried it personally, as 2:1:4 works fine for me. The reasons why my numbers are a bit lower than full EI is that I've just used 15ppm of NO3 as a main upper limit for everything. With 2:1:4 it implied additional K to be added, with 9:7:36 I'd probably skip that.


oh sorry did not see that. am not sure if you need the  additional K, have you tried without it? would like to see the results.


----------



## dw1305 (1 Apr 2022)

Hi all, 


Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> By the way, there is another Solufeed fertilizer that has 9:7:36 proportion, presumably having all N on KNO3 salt.


The <"technical data sheet"> does say all the nitrogen content is nitrate (NO3-).

cheers Darrel


----------



## Vsevolod Stakhov (1 Apr 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> am not sure if you need the additional K, have you tried without it? would like to see the results.


Well, after some experiments I consider Potassium as an element which just need to be sufficient and *stable *(most importantly stable, tbh). All experiments to reduce it has caused stagnation and algae. Increasing Potassium levels were not harmful at all (even at 100ppm in hard water). That's why I've decided to treat Potassium as a water mineralisation part: I just add some dry K2SO4 on water changes and forget about it.
I know that some people keep low potassium levels, like 2-3ppm. But my plants just don't like that from what I've observed in the past. I can say the same for Iron: that's why I had to replace one TEC-SF dose with pure Fe dosing and added extra Fe as well. When I've used pure TEC-SF without any additions I got quite a bad problems with red algae and plants health. The only suspection was that traces level were too high relative to Fe. After increasing Fe and slight decreasing of traces I got stable growth, good colours and no algae issues.
Again, with Solufeed TEC, the iron percentage is much higher relative to other traces, so presumably there is no need in additional Fe. However, EDTA is no option for a hard water tank: it disappears in hours at PH=7.5.


----------



## John q (1 Apr 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> "5ppm NO3 (equivalent) 0.7ppm PO4 and 2ppm K"
> is what you said before. x3
> that'll be 15ppm No3, 2.1 ppm Po4, and 6ppm K. quite far from standard EI. have you tried lowering the dose to maybe no3 as proxy 10ppm?


Title of this thread was cheap alternative fertiliser.... solution apparently is lean dosing.... 😕 again. 

Suggest we answer the question, without deviation into dosing strategies 🙃


----------



## GreggZ (1 Apr 2022)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> I know that some people keep low potassium levels, like 2-3ppm. But my plants just don't like that from what I've observed in the past.


In my experience that's true for about 98% of the plant growers out there. Plants love potassium. 


John q said:


> Title of this thread was cheap alternative fertiliser.... solution apparently is lean dosing.... 😕 again.
> 
> Suggest we answer the question, without deviation into dosing strategies 🙃


LOL Agreed I have never seen as much obsession about lean dosing on any board or with any group of people before I came here........and I know a LOT of people in the hobby.


----------



## John q (1 Apr 2022)

GreggZ said:


> have never seen as much obsession about lean dosing on any board or with any group of people before I came here........and I know a LOT of people in the hobby.


It's a phase, please stick with us 😀


----------



## MichaelJ (2 Apr 2022)

GreggZ said:


> LOL Agreed I have never seen as much obsession about lean dosing on any board or with any group of people before I came here



LOL yeah, well... but seriously,  it may appear so, but I think it's really a small minority on this board who are in on that particular discussion. Most here don't really care because _whatever_ they do already works or they are not inclined to try out other approaches so they don't bother and that's all fine... _lean_ is not for everyone as we have discussed previously. However, one could easily ague that it would be more appropriate to call out the Estimated Index die-hards as _obsessive_ as those are the ones that always seems to trample in on the _lean, _or other alternative dosing discussions,  with their opinion already _set in stone_ and trying, mostly in vain, to contradict and falsify what the small group of innovative  lean-regime folks evidently have shown is possibly - and most folks that do so haven't even tried it out or are not inclined to even try, so it quickly ends up being moot like a _Ford vs. Chevy_ discussion 

I am never in on very specific technical CO2 discussions because I don't think I have an opinion or insights that helps anyone. I am not a CO2 user and have never tried it, so walking in on a regulator discussion telling people that CO2 is a completely unnecessary complication to the hobby causing more trouble for more people than it helps or whatever misconception I may hold one way or another would be just as ridiculous as the aforementioned lean vs. EI discussion scenario, so I just limit myself to reading up on those threads and possibly learn something or get inspired.

Sorry about the rant - it's not directed towards you in particular @GreggZ -  I've been off for a while, so I am still catching up! 



John q said:


> please stick with us 😀


I agree... please stick 

Cheers,
Michael


----------



## Simon Cole (2 Apr 2022)

Funnily enough I tend to get my fertilisers from quite unusual places. Surfy's Home Curing Supplies do the cheapest and safest potassium nitrate. They also have good ideas on how to cure your sausages and ham guys and gals.


----------



## Happi (2 Apr 2022)

Vsevolod Stakhov said:


> Macro: Solufeed 2-1-4 - 75g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives us 5ppm NO3 (equivalent) 0.7ppm PO4 and 2ppm K; I dose that *three* times per week as per EI dosage:
> Micro: Solufeed TEC-SF (not TEC!) - 63g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives 0.1ppm Fe + traces; I dose that *twice* per week
> Fe: Solufeed FeDTPA - 8g per 1l, dosing 10ml/100l gives 0.1ppm Fe only; I dose that *three* times per week


15 No3 (3.4 N total)
P 2.1
6 K

You are only adding 7 ppm or so NO3 and remaining is coming from Urea. Truly you are not dosing EI, you are somewhere between the lean/medium. 3 ppm N weekly is what I usually recommend when it's combined with NH4 or Urea. 6 ppm K is sufficient as well, the P might be slightly excess but it will boost the plant growth especially when combined with Urea and bit of extra K. This fertilizer is designed for fruit and flowers and the ratio is designed for such yield, aquatic plant would be similar to grass and using a grass based fertilizer would be more appropriate. Any additional K will only buildup overtime and it won't happen over night. Meanwhile several plant will continue to grow fast, especially most stem plants. If you were to add rotala wallichii in there, it will continue to do well mainly due to Urea.


----------



## Vsevolod Stakhov (2 Apr 2022)

Happi said:


> This fertilizer is designed for fruit and flowers and the ratio is designed for such yield, aquatic plant would be similar to grass and using a grass based fertilizer would be more appropriate.


The mobility of N in soil is much higher due to different processes, e.g. denitrification which just wastes like 30% of N from fertilisers. I think that's the main reason why N content in fertilizers is much more than in KNO3 salt (which is exactly the form how the higher plants store nitrogen in their cells for further usage). 
Furthermore, terrestrial plants can extract P and trace elements from the insoluble compounds (e.g. using anaerobic conditions + low PH in xylema). Aquatic plants can hardly do it counting that we usually have quite a thin layer of substrate comparing to the natural conditions.
That's why I still think that "high K" agriculture fertilisers are actually more suitable for the aquatic plants. Extra K will just be removed by water changes, as usually.


----------

