# 1 week old tank, algea and other



## dawidmNS (19 May 2011)

Hi

My tank is now about 1 week old.
Juwel Rio 180
2x36W for 6h
CO2 from 2kg FE bottle
EI all in one mix plus 3ml of easycarbo all daily.

First water change made yesterday.

Problems with algea started when for unknown reasons my timer swich stopped working and for whole night light was on. From that day there is more of them and I can see them especially on glosso and stones.

Sorry for quality of the pictures.

Day 1:





Today:







The other problems is glosso, instead of growing to the sides it is growing up. So I added today 1 more 36W so it makes 3x36W in totall for 6h. Was it good choice? Blyxa is ok, I can see new roots as few times they just went out from gravel. The amazons, I cant see any difference, but I noticed that the edges os some leaves are getting brown, or maybe it is natural.


Algea:










Regards
Dawid


----------



## CeeJay (19 May 2011)

Hi Dawid.

The algae looks like diatoms which happens in most new set ups. Manual removal and plenty of water changes will help.
This type of algae usually disappears after a few weeks on it's own.


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> Problems with algea started when for unknown reasons my timer swich stopped working and for whole night light was on. From that day there is more of them and I can see them especially on glosso and stones.


The above statement should give you a clue   


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> So I added today 1 more 36W so it makes 3x36W in totall for 6h. Was it good choice?


This is not a good idea on a newly set up tank. All you will do at this stage is increase the algae production.
I would remove this additional light for now.
If you have no fish in the tank, you will be able to crank up the CO2. This will give your plants the best possible start, then reduce it before you add any fish.


----------



## dawidmNS (19 May 2011)

Hi Chris

Thank you for your reply. 
I will switch off the other light for now and wait about 2-3 more weeks.
There are no fish at this moment but I was thinking about shrimps, good idea?

At this moment co2 is about 3 boobles per sec. Up to how many should I increase? And for how long?

Regards
Dawid


----------



## CeeJay (20 May 2011)

dawidmNS said:
			
		

> There are no fish at this moment but I was thinking about shrimps, good idea?


This is the ideal way to start a planted tank. No livestock. You can then concentrate on plant health first and foremost and introduce the fish or shrimp when you have everything under control.
Shrimp do very well in the planted tank environment, browsing on all sorts of micro organisms on the plant leaves etc. Some even eat some types of algae   , but this should not be used as an excuse to let algae take hold in your tank. Prevention is better than cure.



			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> At this moment co2 is about 3 boobles per sec. Up to how many should I increase? And for how long?


This is difficult to judge, because every one's CO2 bubbles are different diameters, which makes your injection rate different to the next persons.
However, without livestock, you are in the perfect position to add as much CO2 as you like. The plants don't mind. In fact they positively thrive on it.


----------



## dawidmNS (23 May 2011)

Hello again! 

Alge seems still increasing there is more and more. CO2 is increased but situation is getting worse. Also some cyhano (not sure how to name it properly) brought on the rock from previous setup starts to grow in different parts of the tank as I tryed to remove it from the rock and some pieces went all around. Light is like before 2x36W. 

Tomorrow Im going to do 50% water change and start to adding dry powders as my all in one mix is finished. 

Glosso still growin up, amazon getting worse, hairgrass hmm maybe small runnings and blyxa is getting better it looks like all of them are getting bigger and getting new leaves.

Any advice guys?

Regards
Dawid

PS when I bought that glosso it was already high and condition wasnt fantastic so how about if I will take off all glosso cut it into small parts and plant it again? As the new plants at the top all of them are giving new roots so maybe thats the reason?


----------



## spyder (23 May 2011)

For the Glosso, trim it hard to the substrate and replant the trimmings. It'll soon learn to go horizontal.


----------



## CeeJay (23 May 2011)

Hi Dawid


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> Alge seems still increasing there is more and more. CO2 is increased but situation is getting worse.


Sounds like you haven't got enough CO2 for the level of lighting you have   



			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> Also some cyhano (not sure how to name it properly) brought on the rock from previous setup starts to grow in different parts of the tank as I tryed to remove it from the rock and some pieces went all around.


You need to get your dry salts going on the hurry up. Your 'cyhano' is cyanobacteria or Blue Green Algae (BGA). This is easily solved by upping your Nitrates


----------



## dawidmNS (24 May 2011)

Hi

Will do that with glosso, maybe thats the good idea.

I thought co2 is on the good level as it is all around the tank, Im just waiting for drop checker so I will be able to control co2.

I thought that EI all in one mix together with traces will do very well, I was adding as on the instructions but it looks from your advice that it is better to make own one or just add dry salts. 

Im lucky there is ukaps forum


----------



## Bobtastic (24 May 2011)

I can't tell from your picture what your distribution method is? What filter are you using? Is it from a stray bar or other? Do you have any additional power heads or pumps? Flow is key for most planted tanks, be that flow of Co2 or ferts.


----------



## dawidmNS (24 May 2011)

Ive got stray bar on the left top of the tank, the water is going like in a cricle from top to the bottom.  Like on the picture:








My filter is ehem 2217 so should be strong enough. There are no others pumps etc in the tank as I think flow is quite good now all plants are moving and I can see co2 boobles everywhere.


----------



## CeeJay (24 May 2011)

Hi Dawid

I would be inclined to run the spraybar, full width, across the back of the tank facing forward.
You will have more chance of getting the CO2 to the bottom of the tank. 
In your current configuration, the flow will have lost most of it's velocity by the time it reaches the glass on the right hand side.
Your current filter is only rated at 1000lph, and that would be without media   
This will not be good enough for the Rio 180, you need to get some more flow going on, whether you use an additional filter or powerheads is up to you.
To give you some idea, on my Rio 180 I'm running a 1200lph filter with a 700lph filter and a powerhead rated at 1500lph. 
I started this tank with the 2 filters only, but due to plant mass increasing, they were just not cutting it. My problems disappeared when I added the powerhead


----------



## dawidmNS (25 May 2011)

Hi

I looked on your journal and I feel jelous!
Im not sure if my spray bar will be long enough as it is just normal size about 20cm?

The flow in the bottom is quite good as all blyxa are moving like in windy day  But I was looking also for some powerheads at ebay and the prices are not bad. So for how many lph should I increase? 1x1500lph? or more? Would you recommend any specific one?

Thank you for all your help 


PS 1 more question, once I will replace my spraybar at the back where should I place CO2 diffussor? Right in the middle under the spray bar?


----------



## Bobtastic (25 May 2011)

I think there are a couple of options on extending or even replacing your existing spray bar. The easiest is to buy an extension piece for you existing spray bar, it is basically the same as the bar you have but is open at the end. You would then use a length (x) of standard Eheim hose to connect the two bars together.

Another option is to buy the Eheim Installation Set 2, this will give you a longer spray bar in a gray colour. There are also Extension Kits (2) to make this even longer. I believe the you can also use the Fluval brand spray bar too.

The final option (that springs to mind) is to DIY bend a length of clear acrylic tube. This way you can make a spray bar that is customised to your personal style, tank length and is not the glaring Eheim green that can be distracting.

You are wanting (if you subscript to the belief) to have 10x your tanks total liter-age per hour. So that can either be done with additional filters or power heads. I think power heads are pretty standard, but Hydor's Korillia are popular.

Co2 diffuser placement is something that you'll have to play around with till you get the best results. Tho there is the option to place in underneath your filters inlet so that the bubbles are pulled in, further chopped and dissolved and then pushed around the tank with the regular water flow. Tho some are concerned by the possible damage to seals with the filter that could be caused by carbonic acid. Alternatively you could invest in an inline defuser or reactor. With these you get a high percentage of Co2 being dissolved into the water flow.

And... breathe...


----------



## CeeJay (25 May 2011)

Hi Dawid
I agree with Bob's comments.
Extension spraybars are easy to get hold of and Koralia powerheads are the most popular.


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> I looked on your journal and I feel jelous!


Thanks for the kind comment


----------



## dawidmNS (26 May 2011)

Hi guys

Some update:

Firstly i just bought Koralia 2 with flow 600gph or 2400lph. Should recieve it maybe by saturday.
Secondly i was removing algea manualy and trim glosso but the only way to do it was to take all glosso out remove algea and then cut it into small pieces. I started to plant it but I didnt release there will be so many of them so I hope I will finish it today.

About the spray bar I might have spare one I will check later if not then maybe make one as Ive got lots of different things in my garage. However, one I will add Koralia 2 Im not sure if placing sprawy bar at the back will make any difference? As Koralia flow is quite high.what do you think?

Finally, last thing that will need improvment is my CO2 diffusing, the place and method. Leave it like that with normal co2 diffusor and place it under the Koralia or how should I do it? To make it most effective?

Once again thank you for your advices, without this forum I would be back to natural biotopes like central and south america etc and keeping cichlids  

Regards
Dawid


----------



## Bobtastic (26 May 2011)

You'll need to place the Korilia so that it compliments the current flow that you have. You need to make sure that it's not in a position that it's flow will interfere or fight against your filters flow. So... I guess... it's best underneath but in the middle of your current spray bar? 

I personally would start off with either adding the Korilia on it's own and see what different it has. If there is no visible difference after a set time think about moving/extending the spray bar. This was if you have problems you can isolate it to that one "change".


----------



## dawidmNS (26 May 2011)

I will just wait and see how it will works the best.

I was looking for something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Up-Aquarium-Co2-A ... 4cf625ac39


What do you think? Is it worth it?


----------



## CeeJay (26 May 2011)

Hi Dawid

A lot of people are using them with great success on here.
I don't use them myself, as I can't be doing with millions of bubbles all over the place, but some people like that effect


----------



## dawidmNS (29 May 2011)

Small upadate:

Plants are doing better, amazons leaves are getting bigger some of the leaves are near the surface. Blyxa is doing really good, all of them are getting new leaves and growing quite fast, same with tiger lotus  which is getting bigger . I can see new running from hair grass which are also growing quite fast. Still waiting for glosso as after triming and re-planting it is too early to say anything. Still algea but I think thet are not progressing as before, their growth rate is slowly or might even stopped.
Today I did 50% water change, and from thursday Im making own trace and macro mix. Will post some pictures maybe next week, depends from changes. 

Regards
Dawid

PS Im still waiting for Koralia 2, but I tryed different configuration with spray bar, it is still in the same position but more towards the bottom, it looks like there is a really good flow as all plants are moving like in really windy day.


----------



## Alastair (29 May 2011)

hiya dawid, have a read of this regarding flow in planted tanks, and look at clives post 9th down. he explains why its better with spraybars along the back etc and has changed his eheim bars to fluval ones. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1167

Also, if you have no luck with your koralia, i have a very soon to be spare tetra tec ex1200 that ill gladly give you if your willing to pay postage mate and maybe a little donation to ukaps   

thats way you can run both spray bars along the back

Cheers

alastair


----------



## dawidmNS (29 May 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> hiya dawid, have a read of this regarding flow in planted tanks, and look at clives post 9th down. he explains why its better with spraybars along the back etc and has changed his eheim bars to fluval ones. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1167
> 
> Also, if you have no luck with your koralia, i have a very soon to be spare tetra tec ex1200 that ill gladly give you if your willing to pay postage mate and maybe a little donation to ukaps
> 
> ...




Hi there ! 

Thanks for the link, I will have a look and read it for a second, maybe I will think to put it on the back, but the second problem will be, the CO2 diffuser, in which place? I was thinking about the atomiser which I mention before but how should I make it once there will be 2 external filters? Right in the middle at the back? 

About the tetra tec, really big suprise! and I will definetely take it and pay for postage as well as make donation for ukaps!. 

Thanks a lot!
Dawid


----------



## Alastair (29 May 2011)

dawidmNS said:
			
		

> Alastair said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you could go two ways with the co2 diffusing, you could buy two of the up atomizers, and split the two using splitter and needle valves,which ill give you the links to for what i use, or you could have two glass diffusers under each intake or at the front of the tank, your choice.

splitter: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6mm-Equal-Y-Pneum ... 439cf0c1c8

Flow valves: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT.

These work fine for me, and they should do you combined postage if you email them. 

no worries about the filter, its got all media with it too so just needs plugging in. pm me for that though mate.


----------



## Bobtastic (29 May 2011)

I've decided not to split the Co2 to each of my filters. Instead I have "stacked" my spray bars so that, hopefully, get C02 all over the tank. At the moment I have one filter running through an AM1000 and the other through a Hydor ETH 300.


----------



## Alastair (29 May 2011)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I've decided not to split the Co2 to each of my filters. Instead I have "stacked" my spray bars so that, hopefully, get C02 all over the tank. At the moment I have one filter running through an AM1000 and the other through a Hydor ETH 300.



Ahh good idea that is. That would save on dawid having to buy two up atomisers too. I never thought of that. I presume the bar with the co2 would be placed underneath the other then?


----------



## Bobtastic (29 May 2011)

That was the plan, but I made a replacement spray bar for the Co2 driving filter (Eheim) and the tube was shorter than anticipated. So, it's currently running on the top but as the Co2 enriched water mixes with the flow from the bottom bar it should push it all round the tank.


----------



## Alastair (30 May 2011)

See your from Manchester too bob...sweet!!

With the co2 bar being on top though, would some of the flow of the bar underneath it interfere at all? I'm only asking as I could probably extend both spray bars in mine and just run the co2 into one filter instead :0)


----------



## dawidmNS (1 Jun 2011)

Hi there

Unfortunetely, algea still progressing...
I recieved today Koralia 2, well,very strong powerhead  some of the glosso just though away from the substrate  
But I think once I will recieve a second filter from Alastair for which Im really thanksful, I will make 2 spray bars at the back, maybe even link them together into one. Just thinking to use 1 atomiser or 2 as I think this will be the best option for co2 distribution. Im still waiting for the CO2 drop checker, as maybe there is faulty with not enough co2 or its distribution. I think that dry salts are ok so will see once 2 filters will be running with atomisers.
Also once second filter will be running, I will take Koralia 2 out of the tank, becauce I dont think it will be needed and it will just fight with the flow from spray bars.

Regards
Dawid


----------



## Alastair (1 Jun 2011)

Hi dawid, I wouldn't link the two spraybars into one, try what bobtastic suggested, run just one atomiser inline, and have each spray bar one above the other, if not just run two atomisers separately. I Definetely wouldn't join two spraybars togethether.


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Jun 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> See your from Manchester too bob...sweet!!
> 
> With the co2 bar being on top though, would some of the flow of the bar underneath it interfere at all? I'm only asking as I could probably extend both spray bars in mine and just run the co2 into one filter instead :0)



Yeah, just round the corner, in the grands scheme of things.

I must admit I'm not 100% sure if having the Co2 through the upper spray bar would have a negative effect on the flow of Co2 enriched water. Atm I'm not seeing any problems with it, but the tank has only been running for 4days, so only time will tell. I could be able to switch them over once I've made second spray bar.


----------



## Alastair (1 Jun 2011)

I only asked as I'd have thought if it was underneath the top one, then flow from the top would help push the co2 flow down too? Not that I'd know from experience he he. 
I've given up with the idea and just run co2 straight into my filters. Have two fx5s now that bash the co2 up so hardly see any bubbles :0)


----------



## dawidmNS (1 Jun 2011)

Thanks guys 

What I will do is instead of putting one above second below I will just place them on the whole back wall next to each other.
Like in the link which Alastair you gave few posts above 
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1167&start=10

Look on the tank and the spray bar at the back. The only difference is that this spray bar is sticked together, there are 2 eheims. So I thought it might be very good idea, and 2 atomisers.

Regards
Dawid


----------



## Alastair (1 Jun 2011)

That's how I run my spray bars and my whole tank gets co2 all over. The only bars that are joined in that thread though is where ceg has extended one of the bars. I hope you didn't mean joining one long bar so both filters run the same bar. That wouldn't work as the flow would fight one another


----------



## dawidmNS (2 Jun 2011)

Hi there

I know the reason for my algea problems, it is flow and wrong co2 distribution 

I have recieved today second filter for which Im very thanksful. I placed spraybars at the back wall the flow looks good now.
The reason I know it is about flow and wrong co2 distribution is once I placed the Koralia 2 I noticed today that on the left side of the tank where co2 diffusor was placed there are very little algea, while on the right side there are a lot of them! Like Chris said on 1st page that spray bar placed on the left side won't have enough strong flow to supply with co2 and nutrients for right side and he was right. 

So I hope placing spray bars at the back will help.
Also I ordered today 2 atomisers for eheim and tetratec filters, as well as spliter and flow valves that Alastair recommend on page 2 I think.

Well now just wait


----------



## Alastair (2 Jun 2011)

Fingers crossed it sorts your problem once your co2 is running correctly. It's the waiting and anticipating for the bits coming that sent me loopy ha ha


----------



## Bobtastic (3 Jun 2011)

dawidmNS said:
			
		

> Also I ordered today 2 atomisers for eheim and tetratec filters, as well as spliter and flow valves that Alastair recommend on page 2 I think.



With the splitter and flow valves will you still be able to get the required 2bar of pressure that the UP atomisers need to operate?

I'm wondering whether I need to re-think my Co2 solution...


----------



## Alastair (3 Jun 2011)

Bobtastic said:
			
		

> dawidmNS said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi bob, i ran with the super mist diffusor like the one aqua essentials sell for inside the tank, and that needs between 2 and 3.5 to work correctly and they ran fine with my splitter and valves mate  . only took them off as i prefer the almost no bubble look inside my tank


----------



## dawidmNS (16 Jun 2011)

Hello

Lots of improvments had been made.

From last time there are 2 filters which I wrote about before but each of their spray bar is extented for whole lenght of the tank and there are 2 of them , one above, one below. The atomiser is working from 2 days, the co2 drop checkers shows green colour so the level of co2 should be ok. So CO2 and flow is sorted.

The algea I had that you can see on the first page are sorted. There are just few more of them, not much, I removed most of them by hand and they are not coming back( fantastic algea eater in this situation were my angel fish!, not amano which I bought but angels, amano are hiding all the time for unknown reason, they were bought before angels and still the same situation). However, while these algea pased away, the cyano Blue Green Algae, BGA is improving. I was trying to remove manualy, but it i still growing and probably even faster. The glosso stopped to grow from the time I last trimed it. All other plants are doing good especially blyxa, but glosso doesnt want to grow. Im havent got any tests (advice given from ukaps member  ) so Im unable to check my water. I was thinking about blackout but there is no point of doing blackout if there are problems with nutriens. 

To calculate my macros im using:
http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/calcul ... ive-index/

Which elements should I increase to keep cyano away and by how much? And what about blackout? Do it or not?

Regards
Dawid


----------



## gmartins (16 Jun 2011)

Hi,

I've posted a topic on cyano just a few days ago which you can read here: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16102

Nevertheless, BGA are a consequence of low nitrates. I was suggested to up the levels of nitrates (KNO3) to 80 ppm.
I have done so and even more > 100 ppm but to no avail. In my case, a 4-day blackout was necessary and it proved 100% efficient. I've beed dosing normal EI afterwards and no signs of BGA until today.

This was my experience and I hope it helps,

GM


----------



## dawidmNS (18 Jun 2011)

Hi

Thanks for the link.

I will have a try, Im going to make 50% water change today, and then for 4 days blackout, I hope it will help 

Regards
Dawid


----------



## dawidmNS (28 Jun 2011)

Hello

Its been a while i didnt write anything.
4 days blackout seems killed all algea. I cant see even the single algea of any type so thats the good news  tank is working properly for 1 week without the algea so i think it is a good sign that everything is ok. 

I was thinking if I could add 1 more bulb 36w? I will keep the day period still at 6-7h and won't increase it. What do you think guys? Good idea as long as my drop checker will be green? I want to increase plant growth especially glosso which seems as the only plant that is not doing so well.

Regards
Dawid


----------



## CeeJay (29 Jun 2011)

Hi Dawid


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> I was thinking if I could add 1 more bulb 36w?


I wouldn't add any extra light at this stage. I would let the tank settle down with the lighting level you have, for at least a few weeks.


			
				dawidmNS said:
			
		

> I want to increase plant growth especially glosso which seems as the only plant that is not doing so well.


You need to get this growing well before you increase the light, whilst it does well in high light situations, your CO2 delivery at the bottom of the tank is more important. I suspect your CO2 at the bottom of the tank is not quite up to scratch. You need to sort this before adding any more light.


----------



## dawidmNS (30 Jun 2011)

Hi 

Thanks for your reply

CO2 circulation seems doing good, Im using atomiers, and 2 spray bars are places whole lenght on the back side. Blyxa and hair grass are doing ok. But I will wait longer, as 1 week after blacout is not long, especially if my blyxa was really badly affected by cyhano.

I just attach 2 photo so you can see the tank progress. Not looking fantastic, but Im learning everything from beginning  Today I made larger water change that usually about 70% as I will be away for 9 days. Also I added 3 driftwoods, and remove some stones. On driftwoods I placed anubia, java fern, java narrow fern. Probably tomorrow I will recieve some moss. Also I splitted blyxa into smaller pieces as some of them were quite nice size and dividing into 2. Carpet still growing slowly, but hair grass looking better and better, maybe I will by more of it and plant it to make it faster.


Day 1:





6 weeks later, tank only 1 weak without algea:







Regards
Dawid


----------

