# Glutaraldehyde!



## leedsrhinojohn

as money is tight at the moment im trying to find an alternative to buying liquid carbon. ive heard about Glutaraldehyde and would like to know how to use it, what dosage, how much to dilute it, and if its good or bad for the fish. all info greatly appreciated


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## Aqua sobriquet

I've read that concentrated Glutaraldehyde can be quite nasty stuff if handled incorrectly. Don't quote me but I think they use a 5% solution in commercial plant products like Excel.

I'm not sure I'd be happy handling stronger solutions without more information.

This stuff is 50%:
http://www.reagent.co.uk/glutaraldehyde

Update: Just found this.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924161


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Haha, good luck


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## Alastair

theres actually a link on here somewhere explaining how to make your own liquid carbon product, will try to dig it up as almost did it myself last year


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## Iain Sutherland

i believe piece-of-fish was selling it neat....?  he may be able to advise you.


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## Alastair

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> i believe piece-of-fish was selling it neat....?  he may be able to advise you.



i dont think it was neat mate but just a bit stronger, about 10% glutereldahyde i think


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## Ian Holdich

as a health care professional...just be a little careful, the stuff can put you into acute respiratory distress syndrome if breathed in in large concentrations. Ensure you're in a well ventilated place when handling it in it's neat form.


preferably outside...


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

ianho said:
			
		

> as a health care professional...just be a little careful, the stuff can put you into acute respiratory distress syndrome if breathed in in large concentrations. Ensure you're in a well ventilated place when handling it in it's neat form.
> 
> 
> preferably outside...



Sounds fantastic!


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## ghostsword

1L for £12 is very good and if at 50% just dilute with 1 to 5 parts of water. 

But doesn't it loose some properties when mixed with water? 




___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## Alastair

Bargain, 
With a 50% solution you could fill a 1000ml with only having to use 30ml of the glutereldahyde mix then 970ml of ro/di water then just dose away. 
1ml per 40 litres daily and 5ml per 40 litres after water change. 

You'd get 30 bottles of liquid carbo from that big bottle. 

Wouldn't fancy making the stuff up though with what it does if breathed in. 


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## leedsrhinojohn

thanks for the advice guys.
done a bit more research and you can buy it 50%glut/50%water for £27 (1 litre)
it is nasty stuff but as with all chemicals if you take the proper precautions its as safe as water.
luckily im a tanker driver so have all the approprate safety gear. so might give it a go, could save a fortune as seachems main ingredient is 1.5% glut, and glut is basically all you need.


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## sr20det

Interesting thread, will keep an eye on this


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## macek.g

im using it for a long time Glutaraldehyde.


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## sr20det

macek.g said:
			
		

> im using it for a long time Glutaraldehyde.



Verdict?


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## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i believe piece-of-fish was selling it neat....?  he may be able to advise you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i dont think it was neat mate but just a bit stronger, about 10% glutereldahyde i think
Click to expand...


ah, my bad,


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## alzak

I use this for BBA and do exactly same job as easycarbo


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## Gary Nelson

So, where can you get it from then?


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## leedsrhinojohn

you can get it from http://www.reagent.co.uk/glutaraldehyde
its £11.78 +£7.55 postage (1 litre)


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## Gary Nelson

Cheap, but its lethal stuff! but I suppose if its handled correctly.... where can I get one of those nuclear suits from?


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## sr20det

http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/pro ... uctID=6243

Seems cheaper here, £7.60 for a litre


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## leedsrhinojohn

yeah thanks sr20  +£8.50 postage so still cheaper


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## Aqua sobriquet

Are we sure of the dilution though? Is Easycarbo and Excel 1.5% Glutaraldehyde and the rest distilled water?  :?


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## sr20det

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Are we sure of the dilution though? Is Easycarbo and Excel 1.5% Glutaraldehyde and the rest distilled water?  :?


Surely tap water (be it boiled) would be fine, not much in the tap water that would hurt the plants I would have thought.  Unless Glutaraldehyde has an adverse reaction to something potentially in tap water? Chloramines, Flouride, Calcium, etc?


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## leedsrhinojohn

according to the reagent guy it is safe to use tap water. as for aquariums it is up to you what water you use.


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## ghostsword

A big save for someone that uses easy carbo type things a lot. 

Amazing how much money is liquid carbon companies are making.

Why not add some ferts to it as well? Bad reaction? 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## Mortis

Hi its 1.5 % Glut thats in EXcel/Easycarbo. I have been using diluted glutaraldehyde for about 2 and a half years now in tanks with and without pressurized CO2. Remember to be careful while diluting it. I do it safely in the lab where I have access to a fume hood.
So far it seems to be pretty much as effective as branded liquid carbon supplements both as a carbon source as well as an algaecide


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## alzak

Glutaraldehyde was used as cleaner for medical tools some time ago, sure it can't be poison so just use common sense when You dilute it


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## Aqua sobriquet

Anybody bought any of this yet? What's the ratio to get from a 50% solution to 1.5%.


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## Alastair

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Anybody bought any of this yet? What's the ratio to get from a 50% solution to 1.5%.



From a 50% solution, add 30ml of it to 970 ml of ro or di water and dose 1ml per 40litres 


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## Aqua sobriquet

Thanks for that! Did you buy any yourself?

This contains useful info for anyone interested.

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLite ... age=GetDoc


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## sr20det

Anyone progress here?


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I have just ordered some from Bonnymans. I was down near the end of a bottle so was due some anyway. Based on the dilution rates off Alistair if I mix 15ml into a 235ml of water in an existing EC bottle I should get just shy of 17x250ml bottles at a cost of £15.60 delivered. This would have cost £132.00 excluding delivery on what I normally pay. I'm going to mix into 250ml bottles as oppose to bigger in case it does bio-degrade in the bottle when mixed with water.


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## Aqua sobriquet

Alastair said:
			
		

> From a 50% solution, add 30ml of it to 970 ml of ro or di water and dose 1ml per 40litres



So should be 15ml to 485ml water or 7.5ml to 242.5 water?!

Does make it quite a bit cheaper than the prepared stuff.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Yep my maths is rubbish, I would have checked before making though   In fact 1litre of glute will make up 133 bottles of 250ml so should save about £900   or have I done that wrong again


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## Alastair

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> I have just ordered some from Bonnymans. I was down near the end of a bottle so was due some anyway. Based on the dilution rates off Alistair if I mix 15ml into a 235ml of water in an existing EC bottle I should get just shy of 17x250ml bottles at a cost of £15.60 delivered. This would have cost £132.00 excluding delivery on what I normally pay. I'm going to mix into 250ml bottles as oppose to bigger in case it does bio-degrade in the bottle when mixed with water.



Hi Mate, 

8ml of 50% glutereldahyde mix into 242ml of ro/di water will give you the equivelent mix of a 1.5% bottle of easycarbo or excel 
dose 1ml per 10 gal and on water change day dose 5ml per 10 gal.



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Alastair said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From a 50% solution, add 30ml of it to 970 ml of ro or di water and dose 1ml per 40litres
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So should be 15ml to 485ml water or 7.5ml to 242.5 water?!
> 
> Does make it quite a bit cheaper than the prepared stuff.
Click to expand...


And yep 15 ml to 485ml   



			
				AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Yep my maths is rubbish, I would have checked before making though   In fact 1litre of glute will make up 133 bottles of 250ml so should save about £900   or have I done that wrong again



125 bottles


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I was working off 7.5ml but what's half a mil between friends. Quite a lot actually as it happens that half mil makes another 8 bottles or roughly translated saving another 50 quid.


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## greenink

I'm definitely going to do this next time i see any BBA in my tank. SO much cheaper it's incredible.


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## Alastair

Just mix the stuff in a well ventilated area and wear gloves etc. it's pretty damaging stuff if gotten on skin or inhaled especially 50% concentration 


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## AverageWhiteBloke

For sure ideally outdoors, I have access to chemical safe gloves my sister in law works in a nuclear plant  at least it can be drew out with a syringe so not much messing around with the small amounts needed. I was reading somewhere while looking for this stuff that hospitals were trying to wean off it on to other products as it is the single biggest contributer to occupational asthma in the health care industry.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

> on water change day dose 5ml per 10 gal.


Interesting, I have never did that before. I usually add the same amount everyday. What's the reasoning behind that mate out of curiosity?


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## Alastair

With excel you do similar, adding more after water change than you would on non water change day. 


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Oh right, did not know that! Will do that now it's more affordable.


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## Iain Sutherland

Alastair said:
			
		

> With excel you do similar, adding more after water change than you would on non water change day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Often wondered why this is as thought liquid carbons only had a half life of 12 hours anyway??


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## ghostsword

If it biodegrades when on water, when you mix it will it not do the same when mixed on the bottle?


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


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## Iain Sutherland

I dont know luis, dont know if its true...


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## Aqua sobriquet

I would have thought Easy Carbo and Excel are just diluted with Distilled Water but maybe there is something else in the bottle?
Hopefully it's just water movement and oygen that causes it to break down in the Aquarium.  :?

Questions, questions!

Shame we can't ask the guys who pioneered the DIY approach to Glutaraldehyde.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

> Often wondered why this is as thought liquid carbons only had a half life of 12 hours anyway??



I was under the impression that on water change day lots of co2 was brought in via the tap water which is supposed to have higher concentrations.  :? Maybe it's the disturbance of the actual change that drives off a lot of co2.

I intend to mix mine with deionised water, I get it in litre bottle from morrisons for about 90p. One of the other posters earlier in the thread did comment that they were told tap water was ok or possibly boiled and cooled. Not sure who the reagent guy is  or where the information came from. I've based my assumption on using dei-ro water has nothing to react with the glute other than the h20 itself. 

Mortis has done this for two and a half years with good results but doesn't mention I don't think what he dilutes his with. I'm at work at the moment so can't check an EC label but if it's 1.5% glute would it not say what the remaining 98.5% is on the label?

I came across this dosing calculator but it just confirms what we already knew.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

The guys whole site has some decent calculators and information on. He advises dei or RO water and seems to know his stuff.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

> According  to  them  an  aqueous  solution  does  not  require  stabilzers.  As  a  disinfectant  it  becomes  progressively  less  effective  as  it  continuously  interacts  with  bacterial  cell  walls.Its  biocidal  activity  becomes  progressively  weaker  and  is  neutralized  in  7-14  days.



Just quoting someone else but they give the impression that it reacting with bacteria degrades so as there's theoretically non in ro water should be ok. Some other good information can also be found here


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## Piece-of-fish

Just be careful guys. Any water can be used.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

> Just be careful guys. Any water can be used.



I have a bit of a theory on a safeish way of going about it I'll give a try to lessen contact time. If I can find a cap same as the bottle the glute comes in I'm going to drill a small hole in it enough to take a length of airline tubing that's long enough to reach the bottom of the bottle. When I make up a bottle put the cap on the glute and draw out the 8ml required with a syringe. Replace cap with original, wash the piped cap off in sink. All done outdoors with latex gloves on. 

Every little helps I suppose  

Second Thoughts might even leave that cap on the bottle and use an airline valve to close it of.


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## Aqua sobriquet

I'm sure you'll be alright with this:

http://bipolarbearnz.files.wordpress.co ... .jpg?w=620


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## AverageWhiteBloke

yep, it doesn't get a very good write up on all the health and safety data sheets. It's the worse type as well, just creeps up on you over the years rather than immediate effects. I have a fish tank over at an empty house waiting to be stripped down that I dose EC with. Normally in my house there's the smell of food that's been cooked etc and you don't really notice but at the empty house it's the first smell that hit's you when you walk through the door. Shows how much standard EC lingers in the air in an unventilated-ish room with no other smells.

Definitely wants dealt with outside.


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## Tim Harrison

Seen this organic carbon TNC product? 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TNC-Carbon-Aq ... 1061wt_952 

Analysis :- 2% Gluteraldahyde

Incidently it's much cheaper to get TNC products directly from fluidsensoronline than their eBay shop.


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## Sentral

I guess this is similar to buying off te shelf ferts vs EI salts, you're basically paying for water vs actual product. 
I might look into this when mine runs out, I've still got a quarter of AE's version.


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## sr20det

http://glut.petalphile.com/

A calculator should anyone need it.


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## plantbrain

I may start doing some decay/dosing test soon as I have a Glut test kit.

For example, how long does 2% last in a high light aquarium?
A low light aquarium?

Canister vs wet/dry filtered tank? 

Does 4% go down faster? 

Can we dose say once every 4 hours during the light period if the 2% is gone in 3-4 hours?

If we remove the plants, what is the % drop in Glut from 2# vs time?

Samples can be frozen since this stops bacterial action and makes testing and processing the samples much easier.


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## Aqua sobriquet

Could it be mixed in with an all-in-one fert is something that may be of interest to folks.


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## Tim Harrison

plantbrain said:
			
		

> I may start doing some decay/dosing test soon as I have a Glut test kit.
> 
> For example, how long does 2% last in a high light aquarium?
> A low light aquarium?
> 
> Canister vs wet/dry filtered tank?
> 
> Does 4% go down faster?
> 
> Can we dose say once every 4 hours during the light period if the 2% is gone in 3-4 hours?
> 
> If we remove the plants, what is the % drop in Glut from 2# vs time?
> 
> Samples can be frozen since this stops bacterial action and makes testing and processing the samples much easier.



Sounds like a pretty good idea; I for one would be very interested in your methodology and, needless to say, results.


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## Aqua sobriquet

Think I'll place an order with Bonnymans next week.


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## Iain Sutherland

just mixed up my first bottle, did it outside with gloves and 20ml syringe, as soon as the lid comes off its pretty obvious how fierce it is.
Warned my housemate it would be in the shed, was a little concerned that his reply was 'if i put it in someones tea will it kill them?! '   think ill pass on tea when he offers now


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## Alastair

no intense lung burning or suffocating mate ha ha ?????


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## Iain Sutherland

haha not this time mate, i held my breath as could feel it paint striping my throat when i opened it.


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## Mortis

Hey guys I have used regular tap water, water that has been mechanical+activated carbon+UV filtered and boiled water as well as deionised, RO and Millipore water to dilute Glut for myself as well as other people who wanted it and as far as I can tell it has not really made any noticeable difference to the stability or performance of the Glut.

Plantbrain (other peeps also read this) : I remember you mentioning you had some involvement in AquaEssentials liquid carbon so Im hoping you could shed some light on something I came across. 
Im sure you guys know about the debate on whether Excel is just Glut or indeed a "cyclic polymer of glutaraldehyde and XYZ". I read somewhere that BOILING Glut in an aqueous solution results in LINEAR polymers of Glutaraldehyde.
Is this true ? I have boiled my Glut solutions a few times before using and while it hasnt made the Glut worse, I cant tell if it has made any difference in stability (in the tank as well as in the bottle) or if it made it any more effective in terms of plant growth, ease of uptake, etc.
If possible I would like to hear your thoughts on this


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## Garuf

A very interesting thread indeed. I feel a project coming on.


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## Aqua sobriquet

Deionised water is freely available in supermarkets so I'd use that if I couldn't already get distilled water for free. Given the potential hazards I'm not sure I'd be happy boiling even a dilute solution of Glutaraldehyde but I'd be interested in reading the data!


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## Mortis

I did all that when I used to work in a lab and had access to fume hood. Had to go to the chem department to get the glassware and stuff and had to tell them I was preparing a reagent for an urgent experiment 
I also once boiled it at home in the microwave in a covered glass baking dish    
But I made sure I did it at night when everyone was asleep and allowed it to cool down and stuff so that the fumes were minimum.
I didnt boil it on the stove as I didnt know if it would react with the metal/teflon in the cooking pots


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## John S

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> just mixed up my first bottle, did it outside with gloves and 20ml syringe, as soon as the lid comes off its pretty obvious how fierce it is.
> Warned my housemate it would be in the shed, was a little concerned that his reply was 'if i put it in someones tea will it kill them?! '   think ill pass on tea when he offers now



How's the home brew going?


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## Iain Sutherland

great mate, just finished the first ltr and will be mixing again this weekend. No change in plant growth, all is well.
Ill report back when the glut runs out in january 2017 lol


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## John S

Anybody seen any adverse effects with this? I'm not so sure it's as strong or the same as Excel. The reasons being that, before mixing my own, I was using Excel in a tank to keep a small amount of BBA off the hardscape. I've been using my own mix for 2 months and dosing the same as excel. I now have BBA on hardscape and plants despite upping the dose. I noticed that when spot dosing excel on BBA it turns, the BBA a rusty colour very quickly. My own mix doesn't do that. (Mix is 30ml Glut with 970ml deionised water, was doing 1ml per 50l daily, now dosing 3ml)


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## Iain Sutherland

hey, been using this for months now, no issues and same results as with excel/easycarbo etc.  Also works fine spot dosing for me.
Id suggest upping the dose, 3ml in a 150ltr tank isnt much, i run 20ml daily in 300ltr which ive cut down from 30ml, so 5ml per 50ltr.


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## John S

easerthegeezer said:


> hey, been using this for months now, no issues and same results as with excel/easycarbo etc. Also works fine spot dosing for me.
> Id suggest upping the dose, 3ml in a 150ltr tank isnt much, i run 20ml daily in 300ltr which ive cut down from 30ml, so 5ml per 50ltr.


 
I'm dosing 3ml daily in a 50l tank Iain. Does your BBA change colour when you spot dose?


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## Iain Sutherland

hey dave, yeah... i can only think either you arent dosing enough, your mix is wrong or the glut you bought is weaker than the one discussed here.  If its only 20% glut you would need to adjust your mix accordingly.  i use the bonniemans with the same recipe you state.


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## John S

easerthegeezer said:


> hey dave, yeah... i can only think either you arent dosing enough, your mix is wrong or the glut you bought is weaker than the one discussed here. If its only 20% glut you would need to adjust your mix accordingly. i use the bonniemans with the same recipe you state.


 
Got mine from bonnymans too from the link here. Will try upping the dose further. Thanks for the response


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Using 50% bonniemans. When I spot dose it turns the algae red just like the excel. I'm only dosing 4ml in 137 ltr but my co2 is kept quite high to start with. Using it more has an anti algaecide than a source of carbon. I notice when I stopped using it for a while to see how I got on I would get a film of algae on the glass. When I started using it again no film.


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## John S

Quick update. Mixed up another batch yesterday, giving the glut a good shake before mixing. Spot dosed last night and BBA is red this morning. I think I'm back in business


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## LancsRick

Considering doing this, partly for spot treatment of plant leaves where there's algae, but also to supplement my nano tank. Are people still happy with the results?

Questions I've still got:

- Can this be stored in a normal plastic fert bottle, or does it require glassware? Presuming fert is fine since effectively it ends up the same as Excel EC?
- What's the adverse effect like on a tank if dosing is ceased for 2-3 days (i.e. I go away)?
- Where can I find out which plants are able to utilise liquid carbon and which aren't?

Cheers!


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## ian_m

And which plants are melted by liquid carbon !!!


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## Iain Sutherland

Any decent plastic bottle will do, im still happy with using this as an alternative however i have noticed side effects in fauna if you overdose.  It doesnt seem to have the lee way that excel etc does.  There is no reason for its effects to be worse but when i up my dosing i get some fish go crazy around the tank, jumping and then float around paralyzed, 15 mins later they will be fine, this doesnt occur when i cut back. Because of this ive found that 15ml in 300ltrs is about the max for me.  Most plants are happy with LC but some report vals and liver/bladderworts melting, others will use LC with riccia and no issue... i would guess that the dosing amount is likely the decider.
I think i will try to avoid LC in future though, ill  use to spot dose algae but not daily dosing... but thats just me.  I also believe it has an impact on shrimp breeding success and how shy they are.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I just keep mine in a plastic ex mineral water bottle. I don't think food grade plastic should cause any problems.


> im still happy with using this as an alternative however i have noticed side effects in fauna if you overdose. It doesnt seem to have the lee way that excel etc does. There is no reason for its effects to be worse but when i up my dosing i get some fish go crazy around the tank, jumping and then float around paralyzed, 15 mins later they will be fine, this doesnt occur when i cut back. Because of this ive found that 15ml in 300ltrs is about the max for me. Most plants are happy with LC but some report vals and liver/bladderworts melting, others will use LC with riccia and no issue... i would guess that the dosing amount is likely the decider.
> I think i will try to avoid LC in future though, ill use to spot dose algae but not daily dosing... but thats just me. I also believe it has an impact on shrimp breeding success and how shy they are.


 
Very interesting comments geezer, anybody else experienced problems with shrimp? I dose 4ml daily in my 137ltr tank and 8ml on water change day. I noticed on WC day that my kribs tend to stripe up and the female hangs about sort of resting on the bottom. I had until now put this down to the male getting a bit frisky on wc day and hassling her. He does chase her about a lot. My other issue which I was just about to post about in the shrimp section, so you've saved me a jop there  I have been building up a RCS colony in a 5gall tank. Since getting the 10 original stock I would say I now have 30-40 shrimp at all sizes and levels of maturity. One thing I have noticed over that last 4 week or so is that I can't seem to find any new born shrimp. I used to have a constant supply of new born but since adding half mil of DIY EC daily I can't see any with the magnifying glass. The smallest of my shrimp are about 5/6mm in length. The very small new born ones would accumulate on one rock usually but nothing for over a month. My post was going to be do older shrimp eat the younger ones when there is an abundance but this sheds new light. Plenty of berried up females just goes no further.
I think I'll stop dosing the shrimp tank and post up the results after a month or so.


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## tim

@ awb the slow down in shrimp breeding could be to due to winter my neocardinias breeding slows down for a couple of months each year just another possibility mate


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## AverageWhiteBloke

OK I wasn't aware of a winter slow down. Would this still happen in a heated tank? There are females with eggs as well.


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## tim

I have snowball and cherry shrimp both tanks heated to 20c saddled females in both always slows for me for a couple of months I've always thought because its warmer in spring so tanks heat above 20c this starts them off again, not 100% on that though mate shrimp are sensitive to glut too so ....


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I keep my RCS at 24 deg so that I can put the fully grown ones (eventually) into my main 137ltr set up without having to acclimatise them temperature wise. Perhaps the shorter natural day light length may be having an effect. The tank is only artificially lit for six hours. I just got some Almond leaves the other day which I hear help with young survival rates so only time will tell. TBH on both my tanks I would prefer not to use Glute. It goes against my natural thinking adding such a powerful toxic chemical but it's just such an easy way of correcting problems it's hard to put down. I am currently lowering the dose in my main tank hoping to eventually stop using it. I'm away quite a lot so at times my daughter does my dosing and I don't really like her handling the glute being only ten.


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## whatok

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I think I'll stop dosing the shrimp tank and post up the results after a month or so.


 
please do


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Already doing it, with being away quite often I don't always dose LC anyway. It's on my office desk with no one to dose which I have found doesn't cause much of a problem. I just feed up the critters well before I go which is generally no more than four or five days tops. Currently looking for a cheap co2 reg to go with a FE if anyone's got one, preferably with solenoid but not that fussed. Emphasis on cheap


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## LancsRick

How long do the off-the-shelf 2% solutions say they can be stored for? I'm just wondering about people saying this polymerises over time and "goes off", and I was wondering whether this was just a technicality or whether it was a real thing to be concerned about?

Just having a look on bonnymans at the chemical and bottles.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Would be interested to hear the results of this. Mainly the shelf life of the full 50% bottle. I only mix mine in 500ml so if the mixed stuff goes off quite quick I'll just mix smaller bottles. In the case of the 50% original bottle I wonder how long that is good for. Due to my tanks size the one I have will last for years so it would probably be in my interests to flog some on.


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## whatok

I had an opened (and not particularly well sealed) bottle of easycarbo that had sat around for 6 months. Dosed 5ml in a 60L and it melted some vallis fast. I guess this means its shelf life is actually quite good.


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## LancsRick

My Glut has arrived! Just got to wait until the weekend now to get some safety goggles and then get outside in the daylight to dilute it down and start using . Going to make a 1.5% solution (1litre), and then consign the 50% bottle back to a corner of the garage well out of harm's way!


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## LondonDragon

Add 30mL of 50% Glutaraldehyde to the 1000mL container.
Use 970mL RO/DI water to fill the rest of the container
Dose it!


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## Palm Tree

My Glutaraldehyde came today from bonnymans, I just went outside 2 hours ago and used a syringe to put 15ml in a 500ml pepsi bottle then topped it up with water from the brita filter. I just held my breath whilst doing it, it wasn't bad at all.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

I NEED to try this.


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## LancsRick

Palm Tree said:


> My Glutaraldehyde came today from bonnymans, I just went outside 2 hours ago and used a syringe to put 15ml in a 500ml pepsi bottle then topped it up with water from the brita filter. I just held my breath whilst doing it, it wasn't bad at all.


 
Be careful, it's just not the fumes from this stuff, it really is unpleasant (most of my family is medical, so I've sought their advice in handling this!). I'd say stick some goggles on in future just in case, and nitrile gloves for your hands. Other than that you should be ok doing it outside if you're sensible.


----------



## Palm Tree

Yeah I was wearing gardening gloves, not ideal but I think I'm gonna be ok.


----------



## ale36

i mixed mine about a week ago, totally ignored the Health and Safety advice that everyone gave because it was raining and snowing outside, mixed it in the kitchen over the oven with the hood extractor on and used a syringe to extract it from the 50% bottle, as i was squeezing the syringe into the water i manage to spill it over my had, so ran cool water over it for about 2min no adverse effect but it did make me panic,

This does not mean that its ok to do what i have done, just use common sense. the kitchen was the 2nd best place i had to do it using the hood extractor


----------



## Derek Tweedie

Got my Glut yesterday,mixing it today. Got Hazmat on speed dial just in case. I got the 50% solution too.


----------



## LancsRick

Will LC fluctuations cause BBA, or is BBA only attributable to CO2 fluctuations rather than C?


----------



## Ady34

LancsRick said:


> Will LC fluctuations cause BBA, or is BBA only attributable to CO2 fluctuations rather than C?


I would say the plants utilise a carbon source for healthy growth.....with fluctuating levels they don't grow as healthily which results in algae. Fluctuating lc will be as bad for the plants as fluctuating gas so if you have bba, then this will most likely be the issue.


----------



## LancsRick

I was just planning my strategy. I think removing plants is the best bet then, otherwise I'll kill the algae only to have it come back due to fluctuations when I stop dosing!


----------



## Ady34

LancsRick said:


> I was just planning my strategy. I think removing plants is the best bet then, otherwise I'll kill the algae only to have it come back due to fluctuations when I stop dosing!


Ah well that may be a different kettle of fish...if its a low tech system with no current carbon enrichment and you have bba then it could be due to fluctuations in co2 from water changes.....you may need to reduce your water change frequency. 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## cheekycharly

You guys doing this ith fish in the tank?


----------



## Piece-of-fish

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Would be interested to hear the results of this. Mainly the shelf life of the full 50% bottle. I only mix mine in 500ml so if the mixed stuff goes off quite quick I'll just mix smaller bottles. In the case of the 50% original bottle I wonder how long that is good for. Due to my tanks size the one I have will last for years so it would probably be in my interests to flog some on.


 
I have mine for 2 years already with no difference in effectiveness.


----------



## Martin cape

Thinking about getting some of this when Excel runs out. Is it as effective? Hell of a lot cheaper!!!


----------



## Martin cape

Just ordered some .


----------



## Marcel G

Just for your info:
- Half-life decay for glutaraldehyde is 10.6 hours (after this period half of glutaraldehyde is metabolized = used up); completely metabolized it is after 48 hours (regardless of % or amount added to aquarium). This is a reason it needs to be dosed daily.
- Easy-Life EasyCarbo should be 1.5% solution of glutaradehyde; Seachem Flourish Excel is probably a little different derivative of glutaraldehyd called _polycykloglutaracetal_. The Seachem company states that it's better then regular glutaraldehyde (better digestable by plants as a source of carbon). Here in the Czech Republic one company make 1.5% solution of glutaraldehyde known as PMFE (£3 for 500ml).
- Dosing: 100ml 1.5% solution of glutaradehyde contains 1.6 g glutaraldehyde
- Recommended dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel (2mL for 40L of aquarium water) = 0.8 mg/L glutaraldehyde
- Recommended dosing of Easy-Life EasyCarbo (2mL for 50L of aquarium water) = 0.6 mg/L glutaraldehyde
- Recommended dosing of PlantaGrow PMFE (2.5mL for 100L of aquarium water) = 0.4 mg/L glutaraldehyde
- Toxicity of glutaraldehyde: 1 mg/L = no observable effect on algae; 1.5 mg/L = first negative impact on algae observed (growth inhibition at 50% of [some types of] algae population) + negative impact on incubation of fish embryo; 2.5 mg/L = negative impact on zooplankton; 10-20 mg/L fish health in danger.

Hope this helps.


----------



## John S

Interesting. I find the DIY mix more comparable to EasyCarbo then Excel. I say that as I have to dose more of the DIY mix when spot dosing than I do regular Excel. I also found this with EasyCarbo. One other thing, if I get Excel on my hand it can burn a bit whereas this doesn't happen with DIY / EasyCarbo.


----------



## Martin cape

Seems to me that DIY mix needs to made up to 3% soln. to be comparable to Excel. Just looking at the mg/L for the different dosing instructions.


----------



## DTL

Quick question on using Glut.
Can this be monitored using a drop checker?
I ask because I made up a solution and dosed this morning but am not seeing any colour change on my DC!


----------



## John S

No. It has no effect on a drop checker.


----------



## DTL

davem said:


> No. It has no effect on a drop checker.


Thanks for the response


----------



## Vanish

I don't know if this has been posted before but here's a 5% promotional discount code for Bonnymans. 
bonny5
Just got me a 42p discount. In the words of Tesco, every little helps.


----------



## Vanish

As you may guess from my previous post I've just ordered some Glut'. I'm now to this liquid carb jazz, so naturally a few questions will follow. 
I'm currently injecting co2 and things are going nicely except a little BBA. This is why I'm intending to add Glut'. Seeing as I'm already adding co2 how much Glut' per litre or gallon do I add?


----------



## John S

Normal excel dose is 1ml per 40L daily. Have you have mixed your glut with water first? Sorry if that's a dumb question it's just that your post reads like you want to add neat glut to your tank.


----------



## Vanish

Cheers. Sorry for the confusion.  I do intend to dilute, when I get the delivery. I've read the previous posts, and I seems that a lot of folk are primarily using this on its own. I was concerned about there being too much carbon in the water as I'm also injecting co2.


----------



## John S

Vanish said:


> Cheers. Sorry for the confusion. I do intend to dilute, when I get the delivery. I've read the previous posts, and I seems that a lot of folk are primarily using this on its own. I was concerned about there being too much carbon in the water as I'm also injecting co2.


 
You'll be fine. Liquid carbon and gas function differently.


----------



## Marcel G

Just be warned that glutaraldehyde is a strong disinfectant, so although it could be dosed simultaneously with gas (aqueous) CO2, yet be careful with dosing. I would not exceed the concentration of 1.0 mg/L. For 1.5% solution of GA it means to dose daily no more than 6 ml for 100L. Still I'm not sure if it's a good idea to combine gas CO2 with liquid carbon, because each form require different mechanism of uptake with plants, so I'm not sure if plants can use both forms simultaneously. I think (maybe) they will prefere one form over another, and the less preferable option will be using only after depleting the first option. The same is true of ammonia vs. NO3 (if plants have ammonia available they wont touch NO3 until there's no NH3).


----------



## ceg4048

No this is not true at all. Dose as much as you dare and combine with CO2 as you wish.
Neither is it a valid summary of NO3/NH3 assimilation. It's absolutely untrue. Plants consume both forms of Nitrogen constantly.

These are all myths.

Cheers,


----------



## Vanish

Ceg, thanks for clarifying that.


----------



## Vanish

I'm having the same issue as davem had where this is having no effect on BBA.  I'm dosing at 3ml and have tried to spot dose with no effect. Got my order from bonnymans. Looks like I'll need to mix another batch bit don't understand why !


----------



## Iain Sutherland

I could only guess that the mix is wrong vanish, 970ml RO to 30ml glut?   After spot dosing it should go pink/purple after 3-7 days then fall off or get eaten.


----------



## Martin cape

ardjuna said:


> Recommended dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel (2mL for 40L of aquarium water) = 0.8 mg/L glutaraldehyde
> Recommended dosing of PlantaGrow PMFE (2.5mL for 100L of aquarium water) = 0.4 mg/L glutaraldehyde.



If you look at this tread, it suggests that making up DIY (30ml Glut in 1 litre) and dosing as normal on equates to half the total concentration as Excel. 

This could be the reason why your not seeing any effect on BBA. 

My thoughts are make up 3% solution, so 60ml in a litre. That way at normal dosing, as above, you will get the same 0.8 mg/L as Excel.

That's what I plan on doing when I make up my next litre stock. As I am seeing no effect on the little BBA I have either.


----------



## Martin cape

If you look at both too. Your dosing 5ml of Excel in 100L and only 2.5ml of DIY in 100L. So, either double dose in the stock (which should turn BBA pink) or dose twice as much with DIY into the tank.


----------



## John S

Martin cape said:


> My thoughts are make up 3% solution, so 60ml in a litre. That way at normal dosing, as above, you will get the same 0.8 mg/L as Excel.


 
I'd be interested in what you find when you do Martin. I can certainly dose higher with DIY as opposed to Excel.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Personally id suggest caution.  Ive been using the 30ml in 1ltr for 9 months without issue, same results as when using excel but had strange behaviour from fish and shrimp breeding stopped when double dosing DIY glut.  Where as i never had any issues double dosing excel.  

I dont know what plantagrow PMFE is Martin but are you sure it is the same concentration as the bonniemans glut at 50% as its just as easy to buy 25% glut?


----------



## Martin cape

Iain Sutherland said:


> I dont know what plantagrow PMFE is Martin but are you sure it is the same concentration as the bonniemans glut at 50% as its just as easy to buy 25% glut?



Doesn't really matter what concentration the supply Glute is, PMFE is made up to 1.5% like all of them. 

Been looking at the toxicology reports for Glute too. It's save for all aquatic like, fish and inverts up to 2.1mg/L. 

Algae is affected above 1.4mg/L. 

So if you use this formula:

((Dose amount / 1000) x 15000) / tank volume. 

This will give you the mg/L of your dose. 

15000 comes from the mg/L of a 1.5% stock solution we all make up. 

So if I want to dose 15ml on my 140 litre tank, my resultant mg/L would be:

((15 / 1000) x 15000) / 140 = 1.61 mg/L or ppm.


----------



## Vanish

Davem I understand from a previous post that when you remixed another batch it was better than before. Did you shake the glut' bottle before hand. I'm just wondering if this stuff settles, and needs a mix up.


----------



## John S

Vanish said:


> Davem I understand from a previous post that when you remixed another batch it was better than before. Did you shake the glut' bottle before hand. I'm just wondering if this stuff settles, and needs a mix up.


 
Yeah I did shake it and it seemed better and I always do since but, I still say this stuff performs closer to Easycarbo than Excel. If I was spot dosing Excel on BBA it would be pink the next day.


----------



## greenink

Martin cape said:


> Been looking at the toxicology reports for Glute too. It's save for all aquatic like, fish and inverts up to 2.1mg/L.
> 
> Algae is affected above 1.4mg/L.



Do you have a link for this?


----------



## Martin cape

There ya go pal . Think I quoted algae concentration wrong, says 0.9mg/L should do something. 

http://www.inchem.org/documents/sids/sids/111308.pdf


----------



## greenink

Thanks. Looks like fish fine up to 10mg/l - but shrimp start being affected at about the same level as algae though.


----------



## discusdan

any one found any where else to get this or is bonnymans still the best?


----------



## Martin cape

discusdan said:


> any one found any where else to get this or is bonnymans still the best?



Still Bonnymans. £16 for a litre delivered. That should last anywhere between 5 and 14 years lol.


----------



## Vanish

Martin cape said:


> Still Bonnymans. £16 for a litre delivered. That should last anywhere between 5 and 14 years lol.


Don't forget to use promo code bonny5 for a 5% discount.


----------



## Martin cape

Yea I forgot


----------



## Andy Thurston

I dont know how true this is 
I read on a few forums in the states that glut breaks down when exposed to light and that the speed it does depends on temperature 
And glut needs to break down so plants can use it, as glut molecules are quite large
Safety first when mixing. you may not notice adverse health effects till its too late
Why would hospitals/dentists etc look for alternatives if it wasnt bad for you
Anybody thought to request coshh data sheet that suplier has to provide on request by law, rather than relying info found on net


----------



## ian_m

Big clown said:


> I read on a few forums in the states that glut breaks down when exposed to light and that the speed it does depends on temperature


Nope, quite stable exposed to light and temperature. Considering when made it is distilled from the reactants and has a boiling point of 100°C, so very stable. Its decay is heavily influenced by pH (greater than 10 and high temperature), but in the range encountered in tanks say 6-9 not a problem.



Big clown said:


> And glut needs to break down so plants can use it, as glut molecules are quite large


Nope, again. It is a very small molecule actually 1,2-pentanedial, only 5 carbon atoms long, with aldehyde group at each end. Being small it easily gets taken in by plants where it gets broken down easily.



Big clown said:


> Safety first when mixing. you may not notice adverse health effects till its too late


One use is for preservatives (up to 0.1%) in makeup. Standard handling procedure are all that in necessary. One example given is when used as a cattle steriliser (!!!) it says just mix up the solution outside with eye protection.

BASF have a full COSH data sheet.


----------



## Andy Thurston

Unison safety info 

http://www.unison.org.uk/acrobat/B168.pdf


----------



## Martin cape

I use far worse chemicals at work lol. I know I've washed my hands in worse over the years lol


----------



## Andy Thurston

Most people have worse chemichals at home. for example bleach can do massive damage if you have an accident with it. some products in safety info are only 2% and have other ingredients. Im not sure which ones though, and some are not sold anymore.  it must mean long term damage if used  in unventilated areas. that said, £157k is a lot of compo for something concidered not that harmful


----------



## Andy Thurston

How much 2% glut could be used in 35l tank for spot dosing BBA without harming shrimp

I have a small amount of BBA remaining after a high light not enough co2 and circulation problem. sorted by turning off one of the 3 t5, and remembering to top it up daily for better flow, melting hc started showing signs of life again

Atm tank is not dosed daily with glut but BBA still there but not growing


----------



## Martin cape

I think with shrimp your only safe to go to 1ppm. 

So rearranging formula for 2% Glute and 35 L aiming for 1 ppm is:

((1 x 35) / 20000) x 1000 = 1.75ml


----------



## Andy Thurston

That sounds about right daily dose is 1ml for 50l tank and i wasnt sure if i could double it. So i'll  hit it with 1.7ml every other day 
I know some inverts more sensitive to it than others just like humans. I read a guy wore elbow length nitile gloves cos he was sensitive to his tank when pruning


----------



## Andy Thurston

Thats better it looks like rusty wire wool now 

It would be easy to overdose if you didnt know it was harmfull at high levels


----------



## discusdan

any one bought from bonnymans recently?

I placed an order for some glut two weeks ago and it hasn't turned up.

No one's answering the phone and their email address isn't working?


----------



## Vanish

I ordered about a month ago and it turned up really quick. Like a day or two. Give 'em a bell.


----------



## discusdan

been trying, no response on the phone and emails just bounce back.
Their facebook and twitter pages are being updated so its a bit weird?


----------



## Kelvin

I got one about a week ago. No problems with the order


----------



## jimib

Hi all,	 Sent for mine 3/5/13 not received it or any explanation as to why not,  they are not answering any of their phones or receiving emails,   Does not look good.


----------



## Andy Thurston

Id be on with gettin my cash back and looking for another source by now. Theyve probably stopped selling it in favour of safer products. Its main use is in health care and there using different products more and more now. Availability is going to go down and price will go up sooner or later


----------



## Spikey-Mike

When I got mine, which was about 6 months ago, I ordered it at a time I knew I was off work doing stuff on the house and would be in all week. It should have come on the Monday and finally arrived on the Friday. All attempts to contact any human at Bonnymans was a complete waste of time. When I got through on the phone they were full of promisses to get it sorted, but nothing happened. They never replied to a singl email. They were simply not interested. I think the problem is that the order quantity is too low for them to make money and they know they'll not get repeat orders from the likes of us.

Bonymans <=> Severe Dislike.

Regards, Mike.


----------



## John S

Martin cape said:


> My thoughts are make up 3% solution, so 60ml in a litre. That way at normal dosing, as above, you will get the same 0.8 mg/L as Excel.
> 
> That's what I plan on doing when I make up my next litre stock. As I am seeing no effect on the little BBA I have either.


 
Martin, have you done this yet?


----------



## Martin cape

Not yet pal. Need to make up a new stock this weekend so going to make it up to 3%. 

I've noticed though, dosing this DIY flute up to round about 8ppm has no effect on BBA. Whereas excel kills it at just a double dose. 

There's definitely something else in there other than glute.


----------



## discusdan

Just a heads up.
I managed to get through to bonnymans via phone on a weekday. I think their offices are closed at weekends. 
The e-mail address on their contact us page is incorrect and you just get a failed delivery report.
I did a search and came back with a couple of email addresses for them but got no response to any of my emails.

If you need to contact them phone them in the morning on a weekday.

When I finally did get through to them they they couldn't find my order on their system at all. It was only when I mentioned that I payed with paypal that the issue was resolved.

It seems that bonnymans and around 100 other companies had had their paypal accounts hacked and while every thing went through as normal the money was going to a scammer 

unfortunately for bonnymans they couldn't know about the problem until the customer contacted them as they had no record of an order.

I was assured that the problem had been sorted and paypal knew of the problem.

As soon as I got off the phone with bonnymans I filed a case with paypal. I'm still waiting to see if I get my money back 

I also placed another order with bonnymans and payed with paypal double checking the payable address was the one bonnymans gave me and I got my glut 3 days later 

If you placed an order a few weeks ago and payed with paypal go and check your paypal account and update your passwords just to be on the safe side.


----------



## Martin cape

There is definitely something else in Excel other than glute. 

I made up some 3% glute solution and dosed to double a normal Excel dose. I have a couple of little tufts of BBA. Nothing happened to them. 

Waited a couple days for glute to decompose. Bought some Excel, double dosed that (supposed to be 1.5% glute) and the BBA turned orange!!

So either Excel is not 1.5% and is infact a lot stronger. Or there is something else in the bottle other than glute.


----------



## greenink

Mine kills BBA. Did you dose in exactly the same way?


----------



## discusdan

Is it possible that the 50% solution isn't quite 50%? is there any way to test it?

I mixed up a 500ml bottle with 485ml of water and 15ml of glut and have been dosing 10ml in a 200l tank for nearly a week. It hasn't got rid of the small amount of bba/gsa but its not getting any worse, also I've had no algae at all on the front glass since dosing glut which would normally start to show up a few days after cleaning it off. 
The plus side my plants are doing much better! especially my tenellus which was looking a bit drab and slow growing has now sprung to life and looking much better.

Just got to work on flow and co2 now.

Also got my money back from paypal so happy with that.


----------



## Vanish

I found that it was doing nothing at all. I mixed more and used 40ml to 960ml water. I started off dosing 7ml (360l tank) gradually increased and I now chuck in 40ml. I've been doing this for some time now and it's had the desired effect on the BBA.


----------



## Martin cape

Looks like just have to dose more eh. Does excel or any glute kill the BBA on the leaf edges? Or do they need cut off?


----------



## GHNelson

discusdan said:


> 10ml in a 200l tank for nearly a week.


Is that all week or per day?
hoggie


----------



## discusdan

10ml per day.


----------



## jimib

Hi all. finally got through to bonnymans , called during the week (thanks Discusdan), Seems the was some sort of mix up with my order and it had nothing to do with hackers, so after a telephone call and a few days wait glut arrived,


----------



## dean

Have you seen this


----------



## discusdan

hmm, maybe add a bit of iron salt to the mix as well, but how much?

On another note I've been dosing 20ml per day on a 200l tank for the past 5 days and it hasn't effected the small amount of bba I have. On the other hand my plants are growing like mad.
I might cut this back to 10ml per day though as i'm not sure if its harming the fish. they seem fine at the moment?


----------



## Pinkmummy79

Anyone still buying Glut from Bonnymans?
I need to purchase some as nearly out of pre mixed liquid c02, lookied on the link from page 1 and it says out of stock but the price quoted was over £27...
Really need to order something in th next few weeks before i'm totally out, anyone help?
Cheers


----------



## Andy Thurston

The price is going up because hospitals etc are using it less and less because of the health risks. So bonnymans will be buying less and not getting as many bulk discounts. It wont be long before you cant get it or its not worth doing anymore.
Its still cheaper than easy carbo atm. Try other suppliers


----------



## Tim Harrison

check out eBay or Amazon GLUTARALDEHYDE -50% Solution: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools should keep you going for a while Maybe you could get together and split the cost.


----------



## Pinkmummy79

cheers Troi, i'll look to see what's available, Big Clown, you're most probably spot on mate, at least if I get a litre it will last me a good while


----------



## Pinkmummy79

Troi said:


> check out eBay or Amazon GLUTARALDEHYDE -50% Solution: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools should keep you going for a while Maybe you could get together and split the cost.


Oh wow just realized its 5 litres


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Glute would have to get very, very expensive to make it not financially viable. I think last time I did some maths on it, if my memory serves me right  You get something like 125x250ml bottles of liquid carbon from 1ltr of 50% glute.
Last time I got some I think it was £15/£16 for a litre delivered which works out approx 12p per 250ml bottles.
Availability or health restrictions being placed on it unless you are some kind of specialist, I don't know.


----------



## LancsRick

48 hours after treating all my plants with 2% glut for 5 minutes or so when moving them between tanks and I'm not too happy!!

First off, I made the mistake of dipping my amazon sword in glut. It would appear they don't tolerate it, and it looks like it's well and truly intent on dying now. Hold my hands up on that one.

More annoying though, is the fact that some of my anubia leaves now have brown patches on. As if some (only some) leaves are dying in places. Any idea what this is? My only thought was that they might be leaves that were already damaged and maybe don't tolerate the glut touching the internal material of the leaves?

Most annoying of all though, after 48 hours my BBA still looks as happy as ever!!!!

(rage).

Soothing words and helpful advice welcomed .


----------



## discusdan

Found similar things with my tank.

Glut killed off a lot of my plants, cant remember what they all where but will find out for you. Seems some plants just cant tolerate the stuff. 

However the remaining plants are doing fantastically well with glut so have continued using it. 
Would be handy to have a list of plants that do and don't do well with glut???

I also found it not very effective against bba, luckily I only have some bba on the wood in my tank so it dosen't bother me but even quadrupling the does had no effect on the bba, it sent my fish a bit wacky though.


----------



## greenink

Valis and amazon swords hate it. Blyxa too in my experience.


----------



## Ravenswing

greenink said:


> Valis and amazon swords hate it. Blyxa too in my experience.


 

Oh, I have used/use Glut with 2-3x dosage with all of those three plants without problems. I have started by increasing the dosage very slowly and tried to avoid pouring it straight onto Valls.



discusdan said:


> Would be handy to have a list of plants that do and don't do well with glut???


Well as you can see, this kind of list may help or may not help as we seems to have different kind of experiences of Glut. There must be some reason why Glut works sometimes well and sometimes not since I know hobbyists who has similar experiences as you


discusdan said:


> Glut killed off a lot of my plants


but I wonder why? In the other thread in UKAPS I asked this,but no aswers. I personally have had evernever problems with Glut, used it on/off for three years with many kind of plants and also with CO2 from time to time. It would be nice to find out the aswer why we sometimes have problems with it.

Cheers, Maria


----------



## LancsRick

Dipping in 2% Glut is clearly bad news for both Anubias and Echinodorus!

Dropbox - 2013-12-26 10.12.47.jpg

AquaEssentials order going in today if they're open...Lesson learnt there! Shame as quite a few of those anubias are 18months+ of growth.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

That's really strange as I've always dipped anubias in glut, often far stronger than 2%, without issue. There is no denying that your plants reacted badly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pike

question does glutaraldehyde break down silicone sealant ? I have black sealant which as orange patches ?  cheers jon


----------



## GHNelson

A little piece of information from Tom Barr.
NH4=> NO3 is regulated by O2, same for Excel, easy carbo, these and Dechlorinatoers are all reducers and consume O2.

So if you have high stocking levels you need to be aware that Liquid Carbon can have an affect on the Oxygen level in the aquarium.
hoggie


----------



## greenink

Really interesting. I put quite a lot of prime in the tank yesterday and had a serious fish gasping issue almost straight away. CO2 was right at the edge before...


----------



## Alastair

greenink said:


> Really interesting. I put quite a lot of prime in the tank yesterday and had a serious fish gasping issue almost straight away. CO2 was right at the edge before...



Prime is a reducer too.  Seachem even advise not to dose both prime and excel on the same day.  Found it on their faq section last week.


----------



## GHNelson

Alastair said:


> Prime is a reducer too. Seachem even advise not to dose both prime and excel on the same day. Found it on their faq section last week.


 

Not a lot of people know that!
Seriously i have had instances where I've dosed liquid carbon and the fish reacted to it.
The usual fish up at the surface plus rapid gill movement etc
I mentioned this before in some other post....so need to ensure that there is ample O2 in the set-up.
I don't think it would be much of a problem if you have low stocking levels...although i maybe wrong.
Regarding Prime...that's interesting hobbyists, have had problems with Prime dosing.
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## discusdan

I've notice fish gasping when I dose a large amount of glute, I'll have to watch out for this. learn something new every day. 
cheers guys.


----------



## discusdan

I've notice fish gasping when I dose a large amount of glute, I'll have to watch out for this. learn something new every day. 
cheers guys.


----------



## discusdan

Does any body dose glute neat straight into the tank?

I'm getting fed up of making a solution every week, and I've also read that over time glute becomes less effective when mixed with water? 
So my glute solution might be stronger on the first day and gradually gets weaker as the days go by?
Have no idea if this is true or not just something I read.


----------



## Alastair

discusdan said:


> Does any body dose glute neat straight into the tank?
> 
> I'm getting fed up of making a solution every week, and I've also read that over time glute becomes less effective when mixed with water?
> So my glute solution might be stronger on the first day and gradually gets weaker as the days go by?
> Have no idea if this is true or not just something I read.



Id not dose it neat ever into a tank. Your effectively adding just under 50 times the recommended dose which would surely not only harm all the plants at that dose but also kill every inhabitant in the tank. 
Ive never heard of it getting weaker as the days go by given any branded carbon product on the market can be on shelves for months before use. 
Ive made the odd person 1 litre bottles of liquid carbon and have never seen any indications of it degrading over time


----------



## Pinkmummy79

Finally managed to get hold of a litre of Glut 50%.

After reading the whole thread a couple of times, i understand most people have been mixing up solutions at 1.5% i.e. 30ml to 970ml water for a litre batch
also there has been much discussion about not much happenning with this concentration, do I mix up my first batch as 3% as per Martin's recommendation?  60 ml glut to 940 ml water in a litre batch?
I've a 260 litre tank and have been dosing 10 ml per day of commercial mixes and 25 ml on water change with some degree of success on bba.
thanks
Clive


----------



## Alastair

Pinkmummy79 said:


> Finally managed to get hold of a litre of Glut 50%.
> 
> After reading the whole thread a couple of times, i understand most people have been mixing up solutions at 1.5% i.e. 30ml to 970ml water for a litre batch
> also there has been much discussion about not much happenning with this concentration, do I mix up my first batch as 3% as per Martin's recommendation?  60 ml glut to 940 ml water in a litre batch?
> I've a 260 litre tank and have been dosing 10 ml per day of commercial mixes and 25 ml on water change with some degree of success on bba.
> thanks
> Clive


Hi clive. 
Ive noticed on one of the sponsors that there glute percentage is 2% so may be worth mixing that up??? Not sure what that equates to off the top of my head. 
40ml glute to 960 ml??

Ps ive got about 7 bottles of 50 percent glute sat in my garage. I didnt realise you were on the look out


----------



## Pinkmummy79

Cheers pal, I've been taking some from hoggie for a few months to keep me ticking over, 7 litres mate you could go into business making pre mixed glut with that much, yep I'll try 2% with my 1st mix, see how it fares, thanks Ali

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## Alastair

Pinkmummy79 said:


> Cheers pal, I've been taking some from hoggie for a few months to keep me ticking over, 7 litres mate you could go into business making pre mixed glut with that much, yep I'll try 2% with my 1st mix, see how it fares, thanks Ali
> 
> Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk



Your welcome mate.


----------



## RichardJW

Just picked up on this thread - I'm pretty sure I once read on a Marine Forum about using Vodka as a carbon source . Aldehydes and alcohols are only one step different in metabolic energy cycles ( as is acetic acid ) - any views on this ?? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## NC10

Does anyone have any newish links to any sites where this available to purchase? Cheers.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Try here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bonnymans-G...qid=1398785531&sr=8-1&keywords=glutaraldehyde and here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GLUTARALD...Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item2a3b3d497e


----------



## NC10

Thanks a lot Troi


----------



## sciencefiction

hogan53 said:


> Not a lot of people know that!
> Seriously i have had instances where I've dosed liquid carbon and the fish reacted to it.
> The usual fish up at the surface plus rapid gill movement etc
> I mentioned this before in some other post....so need to ensure that there is ample O2 in the set-up.
> I don't think it would be much of a problem if you have low stocking levels...although i maybe wrong.
> Regarding Prime...that's interesting hobbyists, have had problems with Prime dosing.
> Cheers
> hoggie


I once sent the fish gasping at the surface accidentally, the whole tank went nuts.
I had done a daily dose of Excel then I decided I'd do a water change. When the tank was half empty I did some spot dosing with more Excel on an anubias, then I double dosed with Prime as usual, filled the tank as usual,  and the fish the tank wasn't even full yet when everyone shot to the surface.  My tap water is full of CO2 as well.
I have a powerful airpump so connected that and issue was sorted within an hour with no loss.


----------



## Sacha

Glute does not add Co2 to the water. It adds carbon. So it is nothing to do with having ample oxygen levels. The fish were struggling because you put a powerful disinfectant into the tank, nothing to do with Co2/ O2.


----------



## Sacha

Oohh just re- read the posts about Glute being a reducer. Sorry, didn't realise that's what you were on about. Ignore previous post!


----------



## NC10

What seems to be the norm then, in terms of percentage?

I've seen anything from 1.5% up to 5%. 1.5% seems to be popular, although TNC say greater than 2%, which I'm guessing is going to be near enough 2% give or take.

I'm using Easycarbo at the minute but can't seem to find any decent info on this.


----------



## Alastair

NC10 said:


> What seems to be the norm then, in terms of percentage?
> 
> I've seen anything from 1.5% up to 5%. 1.5% seems to be popular, although TNC say greater than 2%, which I'm guessing is going to be near enough 2% give or take.
> 
> I'm using Easycarbo at the minute but can't seem to find any decent info on this.



Hi mate. 
Aim for a 2 percent solution. Like you say tnc carbo is 2 percent so on a 500ml bottle add 35ml glut.


----------



## Sacha

35 ml is 7% of 500 ml.


----------



## NC10

Cheers @Alastair I'll go for 2% then and just use TNC's dosing regime.

@Sacha 35ml is 7% of 500ml, I think you've just got the decimal in the wrong place. (edit: I see you've noticed now lol)

I wish the glute was at 100%, it would be a lot easier to work out  I've got it down as needing 20ml glute & 480ml water to make a 2% solution from 50% glute. I'll go over my workings again later, see what I've done wrong


----------



## Alastair

NC10 said:


> Cheers @Alastair I'll go for 2% then and just use TNC's dosing regime.
> 
> @Sacha 35ml is 7% of 500ml, I think you've just got the decimal in the wrong place. (edit: I see you've noticed now lol)
> 
> I wish the glute was at 100%, it would be a lot easier to work out  I've got it down as needing 20ml glute & 480ml water to make a 2% solution from 50% glute. I'll go over my workings again later, see what I've done wrong



Yes sorry I've still got ratio for a litre. In my head so I'd have worked it out the same. 20% gluten 480ml water

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## NC10

Alastair said:


> Yes sorry I've still got ratio for a litre. In my head so I'd have worked it out the same. 20% gluten 480ml water



Cheers Alastair, as long as I know I haven't completely lost it


----------



## Alastair

I'm not far off 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## pukas

Interesting. I find the DIY mix more comparable to EasyCarbo then Excel. I say that as I have to dose more of the DIY mix when spot dosing than I do regular Excel. I also found this with EasyCarbo. One other thing, if I get Excel on my hand it can burn a bit whereas this doesn't happen with DIY / EasyCarbo.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Try wet's glutaraldehyde calculator http://rota.la/glut/ DIY mixing was never simpler...


----------



## GHNelson

Add 30ml of Glut to 970ml of RO/Deionsed water....dose 1ml per 50 litres....moderate planted tank.
Add 30ml of Glut to 470ml....this will give you double the strength.....3%
I think.........dont get 50% Glut on your hands it stains them brown.
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## cheekycharly

Does this clear up BBA like flourish etc supposedly does? If so you guys need to link me up to the product so I can make some 5litre containers up.


----------



## Rargh

Has anyone got 1 l of 50% Glut for sale? I can only find 5 l on Amazon and that would keep me going for 25 years!
Cheers


----------



## cheekycharly

This forum post seems to have died. Either that or the Glut killed everyone.

Hellooooo, Did anyone survive the DIY liquid carbon thread?


----------



## cheekycharly

dean said:


> Have you seen this



Do we know what Chelated iron he uses and what %? This sounds like the missing peice from everyone's Glut mixes.

The bottle on the video does say on the front but it's too small and blurry to read.

What's your thoughts?


----------



## drodgers

greenink said:


> Really interesting. I put quite a lot of prime in the tank yesterday and had a serious fish gasping issue almost straight away. CO2 was right at the edge before...


I learned this the hard way ..Prime binds o2 molecules in heavy doses .


----------



## Bhu

leedsrhinojohn said:


> you can get it from http://www.reagent.co.uk/glutaraldehyde
> its £11.78 +£7.55 postage (1 litre)


 
No longer showing up here even on a search 

and




sr20det said:


> http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/pro ... uctID=6243
> Seems cheaper here, £7.60 for a litre


 
Is out of stock


----------



## GHNelson

If your desperate...pm for prices!
hoggie


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Just re-reading this after some time. Did anyone come to any conclusions regarding Fe to the mix?


----------



## GHNelson

You would need to use Ro or De-Ionsed water has tap has micro nutrients in it!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Not sure what you mean mate. So if you use ro water you would need to add Fe? Just wondering what the purpose of the fe is.


----------



## GTL_UK

Hi,

Where do i buy it ? its out of stock every were....


----------



## drodgers

GTL_UK said:


> Hi,
> 
> Where do i buy it ? its out of stock every were....


Canada has harsh restrictions on chemicals so i did some searching on glut dosing and have ordered some of this .
Its much cheaper then excel and twice the strength better then nothing?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CIDEX-METRICIDE-OMNICIDE-14-DAY-STERILIZATION-GALLON-/141403945541


----------



## GTL_UK

Looking for something in UK


----------



## GTL_UK

Found it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petlife-F...c-/181583448299?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123


----------



## Alastair

GTL_UK said:


> Found it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petlife-F...c-/181583448299?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123



I'd be a little careful with it as it says leaves a pleasant scent, which glutareldehyde certainly doesn't


----------



## GHNelson

Formula H contains glutaraldehyde......doesn't say it is glutaraldehyde!
I would be careful with this item....more information is needed on this product!
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## GTL_UK

not good then


----------



## drodgers

GTL_UK said:


> Found it http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petlife-F...c-/181583448299?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123


http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/raw-glutaraldehyde-50.35182/#post-378171


----------



## GTL_UK

drodgers said:


> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/raw-glutaraldehyde-50.35182/#post-378171


 
Wrong link..


----------



## GHNelson

Hi GTL
Its the correct link....I think you will need to make 25 posts to view it!


----------



## GTL_UK

Yes you are right, Thanks !


----------



## Julian

Seeing this thread after I just spent £15 on easycarbo...! Where to buy in UK?


----------



## GHNelson

Its always best to ask in the For Sale/Wanted section...you never know your luck sometimes!
hoggie


----------



## Andy Thurston

Julian said:


> Seeing this thread after I just spent £15 on easycarbo...! Where to buy in UK?


Tnc carbon from the sponsor its much cheaper than the rest. Its cheaper to mix your own but its getting harder and harder to get hold of concentrated glut


----------



## GTL_UK

Big clown said:


> Tnc carbon from the sponsor its much cheaper than the rest. Its cheaper to mix your own but its getting harder and harder to get hold of concentrated glut


It's impossible ...


----------



## discusdan

glute here,50% solution though.

http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/product.php?categoryID=1421&productID=6243


----------



## GTL_UK

discusdan said:


> glute here,50% solution though.
> 
> http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/product.php?categoryID=1421&productID=6243


Out of stock


----------



## BurningRanger

It looks like Bonnymans have it in stock via Amazon. Anyone in London interested in clubbing together to get it?


----------



## ajm83

BurningRanger said:


> It looks like Bonnymans have it in stock via Amazon. Anyone in London interested in clubbing together to get it?


I saw that but given it's out of stock on their own website (GTL_UK's post above), I think maybe they've just not updated their Amazon page.  Probably worth an email to check before buying anyway.


----------



## GTL_UK

Still looking but i was unable to find any in UK...


----------



## Andy Thurston

This any use?
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/141026936048?cmd=VIDESC


----------



## BurningRanger

The only problem is it's a hell of a lot of money to pay for only 100ml...


----------



## Andy Thurston

Supply and demand
Nhs is phasing it out leaving only a small number of people using it hence high prices and out of stock where its cheap
And where it is still in use its at much lower concentrations so it doesn't need diluting for use thus minimising the risks to the user
 have you emailed these people and asked for price and availability on larger amounts?


----------



## BurningRanger

Came across something called Steranios which is 2% glutaraldehyde. 5l is £37 delivered. Someone on monster fiskeepers is confirmed to be using it

Researching to see if it has anything other than glut and water... Looks promising...


----------



## naughtymoose

Would this do?

http://www.camtattoo.co.uk/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=OM19

32 fl oz (I'm assuming US fl oz) equates to 0.95 L. Glutaraldehyde 3.4% and Inert Ingredients 96.6%

Works out at £34.91 delivery to Essex.


----------



## naughtymoose

Or this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251572309812?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## GTL_UK

Correct me if I'm wrong but liquid carbon must be dosed daily as it "disolves"  in 24 hours yet we do the same thing with glut and store it for weeks?


----------



## Julian

GTL_UK said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but liquid carbon must be dosed daily as it "disolves"  in 24 hours yet we do the same thing with glut and store it for weeks?


It dissolves in water in 24 hours, you can store it in a bottle indefinitely.


----------



## GTL_UK

So how can it be dissolving in water in 24h yet I can store it dissolved in water... ?


----------



## Julian

GTL_UK said:


> So how can it be dissolving in water in 24h yet I can store it dissolved in water... ?


Because it can't evaporate or get eaten by plants when it's stored in a container. Unless you have really hungry plants, in which case I suggest fire. Lots of fire.


----------



## GTL_UK

I thought that its about chemical degradation, some kind of reaction with water..... It doesn't make sense


----------



## Julian

GTL_UK said:


> I thought that its about chemical degradation, some kind of reaction with water..... It doesn't make sense



I'm not qualified enough to give you an exact answer, but from what I do know, matter cannot be destroyed, only re-arranged. If it's stored in a container, it's either going to turn into a gas or be transformed into heat, neither of which I don't think you have to worry about as long as it's stored in a cool place.


----------



## tim

I think it degrades in the tank due to light, hence most liquid carbon products I've used come in white plastic bottles not opaque.


----------



## naughtymoose

So maybe we should think of it as having been 'consumed' rather than 'dissolved'?


----------



## Andy T

50% Glut here guys uk  £25 delivered http://www.chemicalsuppliesuk.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=109


----------



## Andy T

the first odour  reaction of this wen i opened it was easy carbo .. iv used easy carbo for some time now and hv actually tasted it in a small amount , smells just the same ,  comes with all the health and safety measures on the label  , not at all harmful in small quantities ,, any way i ordered from uk chemicals which is a mirror site for bonnymans


----------



## cheekycharly

Bought a 5L from Bonnymans on Amazon back in November and still haven't mixed up a batch. Will mix one up this weekend by the calculation of ...

75ml 50% Glut

2425ml RO DI


----------



## Andy T

yeah so ur mixing in a 2.5 litre bottle  so it works out at 1.5% strength  . i mix to 1 litre 30% glut to 970 ro


----------



## GHNelson

Mix 30ml of Glutaraldehyde to 970ml of RO or De-ionised or Distilled water to make 1 litre of 1.5% strength Liquid Carbon.
MIX 60ml of Glutaraldehyde to 940ml of RO or De-ionised or Distilled water to make 1 litre of 3.0% strength Liquid Carbon.
hoggie


----------



## GTL_UK

Andy T said:


> the first odour  reaction of this wen i opened it was easy carbo .. iv used easy carbo for some time now and hv actually tasted it in a small amount , smells just the same ,  comes with all the health and safety measures on the label  , not at all harmful in small quantities ,, any way i ordered from uk chemicals which is a mirror site for bonnymans


How did you manage to get it from ChemicalSupplies?  I bought one,  waited 3 weeks and had to ask paypal to step in to get my money back

Thanks


----------



## Andy T

Well its just like another web site store , u buy something and u get it delivered ,,took mine abt 3 days if i can remember to be at my door ,, another guy  i no took alittle longer ,,always good to communicate with the people ur dealing with wen ur order is late or wat ever ..I didnt have any problems mate ..


----------



## GTL_UK

I was trying to contact them for weeks without luck, at the end paypal refunded my money... 

Thanks


----------



## BurningRanger

Bonnymans have glutaraldehyde in stock. I just ordered 1l at 50% for £19


----------



## cheekycharly

hogan53 said:


> MIX 60ml of Glutaraldehyde to 940ml of RO or De-ionised or Distilled water to make 1 litre of 3.0% strength Liquid Carbon.
> hoggie



Whats the dosing ratio with this 3% mix. My tanks a Rio 180 (180L)


----------



## GHNelson

Hi


cheekycharly said:


> Whats the dosing ratio with this 3% mix. My tanks a Rio 180 (180L)


2ml per day approximately as this is double strength....medium planted tank!
hoggie


----------



## Bardot

Having read, read and re-read this thread, I am more confused than ever...!!!
Am I right in thinking I need 30ml of 50% Glut to 970ml of de ionised water to make up a solution equivalent to EC...??


----------



## GHNelson

Hi Bardot
That was the standard dilution ratio for 50% Glutaraldehyde to make up a Liquid Carbon solution for aquarium dosing!
30ml to 970ml of water.....makes 1 litre of diluted Liquid Carbon!
15ml to 485ml of water.....makes 500ml of diluted Liquid Carbon!
Dose 1ml per 50 litres medium planted tank!
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## Bardot

Thanks...!!
I have a quite heavily planted 350l tank and right now dose 17ml per day of Easy Carbo


----------



## zozo

Easy carbo advises 1 to 2 ml p/50 liter..  I used it to kill of some staghorn with 2 ml dosage, works like nothing else when it comes to algae.. But also see some plants realy not liking it and showing melt after 5 days of easy carbo use. like some mosses, Lomariopsis and Potamogeton Gayi showing signes of trouble instead of growth..
I stoped using it for now cause the goal is there red stag..  Other forum member stated Pelia moss also doesn't like it, which i also got but till now was holding on..

Anyway are there more people experiencing this? Is there maybe a plantlist hanging around whit susceptible plants? 
Or?


----------



## Bardot

Has anyone noticed that the diluted glut loses it's potency after a couple of weeks? I mixed up 1 litre, in an empty black Easy Carbo bottle. At first, the smell was quite strong from the bottle and was quite noticeable when dosing, now after a couple of weeks, there is next to no smell coming from the bottle...and I seem to be getting a bit more algae than before....


----------



## GHNelson

Hi Bardot 
I haven't notice this although I only make up 500ml of Liquid Carbon mix at a time! 
There is different strengths of Glutaraldehyde that maybe a factor! 
Cheers 
hoggie


----------



## livewire

Has anyone here compared there own mix of liquid Co2 using Glutaraldehyde to Sachem Flourish Excel?

I have used almost every type of commercially sold liquid Co2 over the years and found Excel to be the best, am looking to save some ££ but don't want my tanks to suffer. Whilst using Excel I have never had any issue with algae at all in 4 years but 4litres now costs almost £70 so I'm looking for an alternative.


----------



## Bardot

Have found it Hoggie lol...!!
It was 50% Glut I used.....gonna try it in 500ml batches instead of the 1 litre.....


----------



## GHNelson

Hi
I'm not going to and open a can of worms here......but when I first purchased 50% Glutaraldehyde a few years back it wasn't clear in colour it had a slight golden colour!
As far as I'm aware the clear coloured 50% Glutaraldehyde from the same company is proper 50% Glut!
I asked for conformation regarding this observation by email to the company....but they never got back to me.....poor customer service!
So I presume they are the same in concentration...they do smell the same...although the new batch has slightly less viscosity.
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## John S

The first time I bought Seachem Flourish Excel it was also a golden colour. My second bottle was clear and I contacted them to make sure there was nothing wrong with it. They confirmed that both colours were OK. Since then every bottle I've had has been clear. My own Glutaraldehyde  has a golden colour.

IME Flourish Excel is much better at killing BBA than the homebrew version.


----------



## GHNelson

Hi John
I think that maybe down to dosing Excel....2ml per 50 litres....medium to high planted tank?
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## Bardot

I think mine (from Bonnymans) is clear...although I must admit I got Hubby to mix it for me....!!!
I don't have pressurised c02 yet, just use the Glut and ferts....my worry is that if the Glut has lost it's oomph, I will have plant die back which in turn will add to the algae issue. I didn't use Excel, Easy Carbo was the one I used to use before I bought the glut and didn't have a problem with that.
Better dust off Hubby's rubber gloves


----------



## Andy T

I first started using 30ml solution of glut on my 75g some time ago now and found that it were'nt strong enough to combat BB algae .. i was using 10ml aday 7 days a week .. nowadays i mix 40ml glut to 940ml RO in a one litre .. im not sure if it loses its strength after so long like its been mentioned many times , tell u the truth wen i use to use easy carbo it worked faster than the glut  but theres definatley something  different in the  ingredients we dont no about  even tho the glut smells the same straight out the bottle ..


http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hi-folks-heres-my-planted-dutch-55g.35666/


----------



## xim

It seems our 1.5-2% concentration is at risk.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...ides/pdfs/noreg/253-01338.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc


> The simpler method involves further dilution to an essentially nonmicrobiocidal concentration (less than 5 ppm active) in order to allow the glutaraldehyde to biodegrade.



The best we can do may be finding a compatible way to keep the solution acidic.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002440010248


> ...under sterile conditions at pH 5 or 7, no appreciable degradation of glutaraldehyde was observed over a 31-day period. At pH 9, about 30% of the glutaraldehyde degraded over the same period.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10315024


> Three independent studies showed that under continuous daily use in hospital buckets potentiated acid glutaraldehyde lasted twice as long as the alkaline glutaraldehyde formula.


----------



## Bardot

When I started suspecting it was losing it's effectiveness, I increased the dose from 12ml per day to 15ml...but the fish were not happy at that dose, constantly diving to the surface for air....
I have no idea what the ph is of the deionised water I used to dilute it, perhaps RO would be better...?? Or adding an alder cone or similar to the mix to bring the acidity down....??


----------



## Andy T

probley depends on how big ur tank is on how much glut u dose ..10ml a day my fish are ok in a 75g even tho i have killed 50+ shrimp ,, but that can happen if u overdose easycarbo...,, i also find my drop checker turns grey colour if i over dose with the stuff ,, my ph tank water is 6.2 after co2 ,, before its 7,6 ... i dont think when i started using RO water with the glut changed anything really.


http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hi-folks-heres-my-planted-dutch-55g.35666/


----------



## dan4x4

My findings with glutaraldehyde..

When i used to use Flourish Excel, it worked better than TNC Carbon that I'm currently using which is 2%,
I have a 50l aqua one aquanano 40 tank. I have stepped up dosing from recommended 1ml per 50 litres per day, currently dosing 2ml per day.
I had increased as at stated dose it was not making a difference against algae.
I had a snail problem which has disappeared since increasing doses. There used to be loads of little ones but they're gone. There are a few larger ones. They used to lay slimey egg sacks id find them all over and I haven't seem any dosing at this level.
I had 5 amano shrimps, but after buying them i was told they where ghost shrimp - anyways one by one they left the tank and i found them on the floor. Only snails living in tank at the time.
Also I had a sword in my old tank which grew amazing with flourish excel in there. My swords in my new tank are struggling, they have some sort of green slime on leaves, I have increased dosing of ferts. I recognise all of above could be because of other reasons other than glut. Just my findings.

Thanks.

Im saving for pressurised co2, then ill be lucking to use glut to spot dose.


----------



## Sudipto

I can find 25 per cent strength glutaraldehyde here in my city. Can someone please advise me how to prepare the solution? Like how much of this glut should I mix in how much DI water? I have a heavily planted 50 litre tank with pressurised CO2. I am seeing some BBA attack of late. Dosing Excel on a daily basis is not financially viable for me. Please help with the concentration maths. Is it a simple unitary method arithmetic i.e 60 ml in 940 ml of DI water?


----------



## GHNelson

Hi
Yes that is correct!
50% Gluterhyde. ..30ml added to 970ml of water.
If it's 25%...add 60ml to 940ml of water!
Add 2ml minunm to a heavily planted 50 litres aquarium. 
Cheers hoggie


----------



## Sudipto

Thanks hogan53 . I hope it does not harm my otos and rummy noses. They are otherwise very delicate. I will keep you posted about the result.


----------



## Soilwork

Martin cape said:


> Doesn't really matter what concentration the supply Glute is, PMFE is made up to 1.5% like all of them.
> 
> Been looking at the toxicology reports for Glute too. It's save for all aquatic like, fish and inverts up to 2.1mg/L.
> 
> Algae is affected above 1.4mg/L.
> 
> So if you use this formula:
> 
> ((Dose amount / 1000) x 15000) / tank volume.
> 
> This will give you the mg/L of your dose.
> 
> 15000 comes from the mg/L of a 1.5% stock solution we all make up.
> 
> So if I want to dose 15ml on my 140 litre tank, my resultant mg/L would be:
> 
> ((15 / 1000) x 15000) / 140 = 1.61 mg/L or ppm.



Just wondering how the 15000ppm is calculated in this equation?

Thanks.


----------



## Manuel Arias

Soilwork said:


> Just wondering how the 15000ppm is calculated in this equation?



From the concentration in %. For instance, the text says 1.5%, which is essentially, the proportion of the glutaraldehyde in the product. This can be offered as % in weight or % in volume. Considering is in weight, then 1.5% corresponds to 1.5 grams every 100gr of solution, and then 15 gr per kg of solution. 1 PPM is equal to 1 mg every kg of solution, so to convert 15 gr into PPMs, we need to multiply by 1000 (gr to mg) and then we get 15000 mg/kg = 15000 PPM. 

Hope this answer your question. 

Cheers,
Manuel


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## Soilwork

Ok thanks it makes sense.

Thanks


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## Barbara Turner

Just ordered a litre bottle from bonnymans also a litre hdpe bottle. 
Price has gone up to £11.80 for 1 litre + £10 shipping
Still so much cheaper than the Seachem flourish I'm currently using, i'll work out dosing when it arrives I was planning on mixing it with RO water
has anyone worked out if seachem add anything else?

http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/product.php?categoryID=1421&productID=6243


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I heard somewhere that Seachem had changed the chemical make up of Excel to get round some European law on selling certain chemicals, not 100% sure on that though although I think glute and excel are slightly different chemically speaking. No one is 100% sure what is in excel, they keep that close to their chests and the tests they carried out with Tom Barr weren’t published.


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## Redrage

Hi,

Does anybody know where I can buy Glutaraldehyde 50% the same as the solution from Bonnymans anywhere in Northern Ireland?  Bonnymans want £52 for delivery of a 1 litre bottle to Northern Ireland.

Many Thanks,

Darren


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## Oldguy

Glutaraldehyde concentrate is approx 50%. Most "liquid carbon" (hate the term) is 1.5%. I make 1litre at a time, hence 30ml and dilute to 1 litre. Use caution in handling. As a Jr in a chem lab used to mouth pipette cyanide plating bath solutions for assay. The gormless got a Darwin Award, the careful got a pay packet. I got my Glutaraldehyde from Amazon. I understand that USA morticians use it as an embalming fluid and consider it to be safer than formaldehyde, but I have no experience in this area.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

There seems to be a lot of hating going on lately for "liquid carbon" unless it's just the various groups and forum I frequent.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## roadmaster

I recall Barr once saying.."Try,Do,then speak" but Forum's don't always work that way.
I have used Glut pulled straight out of the Jug and injected directly , and kept a few number's of fishes and invert's seemingly without harm, but began using the stuff with plant only tanks first, while observing the effect's which were to me,, notable .
Kept the jug sealed and under the tank.
I was not keen to use it at first with livestock ,but a few cherry shrimps that managed to hitch a ride on plant's from another tank  did not seem fazed at all, and so  I got to watch shrimps and plants grow and slowly multiply over a couple year's.
A US gallon of Metricide 14 minus activator pouch(throw it in the bin)  of whatever,lasted nearly eight months(Dosing 20ml daily into 300 litre Tank) and was twice the strength of Seachem Excel at 1/2 the cost.
Hater's gonna hate,but I decided to try ,do,then share.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I'm not sure of the exact benefits, I've used it in the past and still spot dose with it these days. I think the main thing people take issue with is the use of the phrase liquid carbon. I keep seeing the same breakdown of the chemicals involved and the resulting net production of carbon the result being that just oxygenating the water is better and the same effect can be achieved by not dosing anything at all. Any improvement see classed as placebo. Like you say the haters gonna hate and it is quite intense. A few groups I've been can get quite hostile just for mentioning the product, I've even left some because of the lack of discussion on the subject. Some people in the know will try and explain while the majority, who I suspect don't understand and are just following people who do know just seem to want to ridicule anyone who uses it.


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## roadmaster

Best to run the tank for a year or two without the stuff,Take photos to look back on.Then run tank(s) with the stuff for year or two and do likewise.
Use it till the jugs empty,each day,not just for spot treating algae.
Then one can form their own opinion.
In otherwise CO2 limited condition,I saw enough for me to purchase second jug.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Very true, there's a theory that using glute kills off algae spores in the water therefore leaving more nutrients available to the plants as well rather than the slight increase of available carbon unless OFC dosing higher than the recommended values in which case the slight increase in available carbon would also be slightly higher as well. I suppose you have to find out at which point you hit the so called intolerant plant threshold. Lot of ambiguity though about which plants these are exactly. Some have no problems with these plants and so many factors to take into account.


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## alto

Well worth reading especially storage conditions 

50% Glutaraldehyde MSDS

Note it’s wide application as a cross linking agent


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## terry82517

Could someone tell me the ratio of 50% Glutaraldehyde to water to make up a two litre  bottle at 2% please?


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## Oldguy

terry82517 said:


> Could someone tell me the ratio of 50% Glutaraldehyde to water to make up a two litre bottle at 2% please?


2ml of 50% to 100ml is 1%. 4ml of 50% to 100ml is 2%, hence 40ml to 1litre is 2% and 80ml to 2litres is 2%


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## BurningRanger

Does glutaralxehyde degrade or go off after some time? I bought a bottle about 5 years ago and have yet to get around to diluting it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## LondonDragon

I would avoid this stuff! If you want to dose liquid carbon buy some Excel and dose according to the bottle


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## tiger15

BurningRanger said:


> Does glutaralxehyde degrade or go off after some time? I bought a bottle about 5 years ago and have yet to get around to diluting it
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk



The half life of Glut in aqueous solution is 10 hours.   The shelf life of concentrate in the container,  as labeled,  is probably under 2 years and beyond that the strength will be reduced to unknown level.



LondonDragon said:


> I would avoid this stuff! If you want to dose liquid carbon buy some Excel and dose according to the bottle



The ingredient of excel is one and the same as Glut except for different concentration.  I have done the research and worked out the equivalent dosing for my 75 gal as well as compiled toxicity test results from various sources as follows.

*Seachem Excel *      1.5% Glutaraldehyde

Directions: On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 US gallons). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 US gallons) daily or every other day.

*Metricide 14*             2.6% Glutaraldehyde

Excel/Matricide = 1.5/2.6 = 0.58

API Carbon Booster 1.6% Glutaraldehyde

Cidex or Cidex28    2.4 – 2.8% Glutaraldehyde

Initial after WC(2ppm):        Excel 5ml/10gal       Metricide 2.9ml/10gal or *22ml/75gal*

Daily afterward(0.4ppm):    Excel 5ml/50gal       Metricide 2.9ml/50gal or *5ml/75gal*


1 gal = 3785.41 ml

1.5% Glut = 1.5*1000000/100 = 15,000 ppm

Initial after WC:         5ml of 1.5% Glut in 10 gal = 15000 * 5 / (10*3785.41) = 2 ppm

Normal daily:                         5ml of 1.5% Glut in 50 gal = 15000 * 5 / (50*3785.41) = 0.4 ppm

Double daily:                         10ml of 1.5% Glut in 50 gal = 15000 *10/(50*3785.41) = 0.8 ppm



Toxicity of glutaraldehyde

96h acute Bluegill sunfish                                                  LC50 = 11.2 mg/L

Bluegill sunfish                                                                     NOEC = 10 mg/L

48h acute Oyster larvae                                                     LC50 = 2.1 mg/L

96h acute Green crabs                                                       LC50 = 465 mg/L

96h acute Grass shrimp                                                     LC50 = 41 mg/L

48h acute Daphnia magna                                                LC50 = 0.35 mg/L

Daphnia magna                                                                   NOEC = 0.32 mg/L

96h algal growth inhibition Selenastrum capricornutum           ILm = 3.9 mg/L

Algal inhibition Selenastrum subcapitata                        IC50=1 to 1.8 mg/L

96h algal growth inhibition Scenedesmus subspicatus EC50 = 0.9 mg/L

Bacterial inhibition Sewage microbes                              IC50 = 25-34 mg/L

96h O. mykiss (Trout hatch  rate)                                      IC50 = 1.82 mg/L

96h C. dubia (Daphnia reproduction)                              IC50 = 4.7 mg/L



*EC=Effective concentration;  IC=Inhibition concentration; LC=Lethal concentration;

NOEC=No observed effect concentration


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## alto

BurningRanger said:


> Does glutaralxehyde degrade or go off after some time? I bought a bottle about 5 years ago and have yet to get around to diluting it
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


What is the stabilizing agent used in your glutaraldehyde product?
Storage conditions?
Bottle?
(eg, brown glass with air proof lid? especially helpful as this allows observation of any formed precipitates in which case, dispose as per legal requirements in your country)


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## tiger15

alto said:


> What is the stabilizing agent used in your glutaraldehyde product?
> Storage conditions?
> Bottle?
> (eg, brown glass with air proof lid? especially helpful as this allows observation of any formed precipitates in which case, dispose as per legal requirements in your country)


You are supposed to discard the stabilizer/activator and never add it to the Glutaldehyde product.   For Metricide brand,  the activator is sodium nitrite, which is very toxic to fish.  Nitrite is a reducing agent that is used to preserve meat.  I am not sure why Glut needs to to be activated before its original intent use.   Other  brands use different activator that can be  phosphate, acetate, etc but just don’t add it if you don’t know what it is.

https://metrex.com/sites/default/fi.../msds-us-en-metricide-28-liquid-activator.pdf

https://bio-medical.com/media/support/metricide_28_directions_for_use.pdf


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## Geoffrey Rea

tiger15 said:


> You are supposed to discard the stabilizer/activator and never add it to the Glutaldehyde product.



Yeah, this is important info for anyone making up their own using 50% concentration for example and diluting down. As you say the activator should be discarded.

Also, using a FMP2 respirator mask or higher with goggles and prepared in the open air when dealing with it in higher concentrations. 

Storage temperature range will affect lifespan. Guidance safety sheet which accompanies purchases of glutaraldehyde will contain exact info in the UK.


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## oreo57

tiger15 said:


> You are supposed to discard the stabilizer/activator and never add it to the Glutaldehyde product.   For Metricide brand,  the activator is sodium nitrite, which is very toxic to fish.  Nitrite is a reducing agent that is used to preserve meat.  I am not sure why Glut needs to to be activated before its original intent use.   Other  brands use different activator that can be  phosphate, acetate, etc but just don’t add it if you don’t know what it is.
> 
> https://metrex.com/sites/default/fi.../msds-us-en-metricide-28-liquid-activator.pdf
> 
> https://bio-medical.com/media/support/metricide_28_directions_for_use.pdf



There are a couple of things to be aware of.
1)Met 28 contains disinfectants.. 14 does not.
2)Pretty sure the activators between the 2 are different.
3)Pretty sure one of the  things the activators do is lower pH.
4) Wondering about the activator is a bit err.. pointless since neither should be used.
I was looking into it at one point just to see "if" I could use them for something else..
Not enough info.



*



			Metrex 10-2800 MetriCide 28 High-Level Disinfectant/Sterilant, 1 gal Capacity
		
Click to expand...

*


> by Metrex
> 
> 
> [*]Recommended for immiscible and heat-sensitive equipment and instruments
> [*]*Contains surfactants*
> [*]Activation required
> [*]High-Level disinfectant/sterility 2. 5% Glutaraldehyde





> MetriCide High Level Disinfectant 14 Day 1 Gallon Ea            *                6401519*                |                Metrex/TotalCare                -                10-1400
> [*]Description:
> 
> MetriCide High Level Disinfectant 2.6% Glutaraldehyde / *No Surfactants *14 Day 1 Gallon With Activator Each






> Metricide 14(prefer) and 28(stinks and soapy) are 2 different thing tho' 1 contain 2.5% and other contain 2.6% of glutaraldehyde


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## oreo57

Pretty sure this is the Met14 activator.. different than the other one (Nitrite)..


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## tiger15

oreo57 said:


> There are a couple of things to be aware of.
> 1)Met 28 contains disinfectants.. 14 does not.
> 2)Pretty sure the activators between the 2 are different.
> 3)Pretty sure one of the  things the activators do is lower pH.
> 4) Wondering about the activator is a bit err.. pointless since neither should be used.
> I was looking into it at one point just to see "if" I could use them for something else..
> Not enough info.


1) I think you have misinterpreted the reference of disinfectant.   Glutaldehyde is a disinfectant by itself which is the ingredient of both Met 14 and 28.
2)Met 14 and 28 refer to 14 and 28 day shelf life, respectively, after activation.  Both contain about the same % of glut, and the difference between 14 and 28  is in the activator, nitrite versus phosphate, and 28 contains a surfactant that makes it soapy and stick to the surfaces.  For aquarium use, 14 is the choice as it  contains no surfactant.
3) Actually the other way around.  Both activators will raise the pH as indicated by the pH value in their MSDS.  
4) True.  It's a moot point as you only want pure Glut, no activator of unknown nature and toxicity.


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## oreo57

tiger15 said:


> 1) I think you have misinterpreted the reference of disinfectant.   Glutaldehyde is a disinfectant by itself which is the ingredient of both Met 14 and 28.
> 2)Met 14 and 28 refer to 14 and 28 day shelf life, respectively, after activation.  Both contain about the same % of glut, and the difference between 14 and 28  is in the activator, nitrite versus phosphate, and 28 contains a surfactant that makes it soapy and stick to the surfaces.  For aquarium use, 14 is the choice as it  contains no surfactant.
> 3) Actually the other way around.  Both activators will raise the pH as indicated by the pH value in their MSDS.
> 4) True.  It's a moot point as you only want pure Glut, no activator of unknown nature and toxicity.



LOL either I fell asleep typing or I missed an auto-correct.. Meant to write surfectant not disinfectant..
As to pH , I was going from memory and figured someone would correct it if I was wrong.. 50/50 chance..


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## lakshen99

I plan on making a 1.5% or 2% solution of glut. How much should I dose in my 35l tank to get rid of thread/hair algae?


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## dino21

lakshen99 said:


> I plan on making a 1.5% or 2% solution of glut. How much should I dose in my 35l tank to get rid of thread/hair algae?



If available over there, for a few dollars  you could buy a 250ml bottle of this, far less risky to use.
It worked ok on our tank , though slowly over the 4 weeks you need to dose it, which is probably a lot better on the fish and plants than a big bang solution....
Easy-Life AlgExit - Easy-Life


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## ScapingScotsman

After reading through the latter pages of this thread, and people's results of glute losing its strength, this will happen if mixed with tap water. Tap water has a tendency to be higher than the pH of water used commercially in mixes. 
But would highly advise to not mix in anything with Glute, stabilisers, pH adjusters etc. Glute remains active constantly, unless mixed with water containing minerals and any or nutrients. 
Reverse osmosis water is the only and best way of you are making your own liquid carbon mix. It should also be kept in a dark cooler place in between uses as heat does affect it. Here at work, I have to ensure our glutaraldehyde is stored in our blacked out warehouse with a constant 15 degree maintained temperature.


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## Chrispowell

Sorry to dig this one up... where do people buy Glutaraldehyde from these days and is it still the best option?

Thanks


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## AlecF

Pondering, wouldn't the best solution to be to learn to keep an aquarium without using this stuff, accepting the consequences of that and just making sure that the plants and fish are healthy and happy?


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## GHNelson

Chrispowell said:


> Sorry to dig this one up... where do people buy Glutaraldehyde from these days and is it still the best option?
> 
> Thanks


Bonnymans sell it but you may have to pay a special premium for delivery nowadays!








						GLUTARALDEHYDE -50% Solution | Bonnymans
					

LARGER SIZES AVAILABLE ON REQUEST - PLEASE CONTACT FOR PRICING Glutaraldehyde is a powerful antimicrobial agent. On account of its excellent sporicidal properties, it is the only liquid sterilant recommended for decontamination of highly critical surgical instruments, and other uses. APPLICATION...




					www.bonnymans.co.uk


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