# My new Oase 175 Styline



## Trakkajack (4 Apr 2021)

So I picked up my tank and oodles of goodies from Horizon. Complete novice doesn’t start to give the correct impression of how novice I am!

I’m waiting for my list from Horizon of exactly what I bought but here’s what I can remember...

Oase 650 Biomaster
Manzanita wood
Stones. Can’t remember which
Tropica soil
Tropica substrate
ADA sand I think it was
Dennerle Baikal - not put in yet
An additional light with blue and red can’t remember which
Additional white things to put into the filter (removed blue sponges)
Seachem Prime
Seachem stability
24 he Aquarist APT complete comprehensive planted aquarium supplement
Aquavitro Aquascaping tweezers and scissors
Oase spiral brush
Metal bristled brush for cleaning atones
Seachem scraper with pad and blade
Oase spare filter sponges blue
Aquarium Lab multi test kit - not used yet
Length of hose for water changes
Oase submersible pump. It got damaged in the post so am awaiting delivery of new one. Having to use cold hose pipe water to refil unfortunately but not for much longer hopefully
1.2 grow plants next
Pogostemon
Eleocharis
Lilaeopsis
Alternathera
Staurogyne
Vesicularia x2
Aquadip plants -
Ludwiga mini super red x 3
Aquafleur Bucephalandra Theia green
Tropica plants
Pogostemon 1
Cryptocoryne x 4
Hygrophila x 2
Limnophila x 1
Microsorum x 7
Becephalandra x 4
Then added:
Seachem purigen bag
Mini landscape seiryu rock
Plus more plants
Hygrophila siamensis 53b x 2
Helanthium rebelling green x 3
Cryptocoryne wendtii green x 2
Limnobium laevigatum x 1
Microsorium pteropus windelov x1
Bolbitis heudelotii x 1
Tropica aquarium soil powder
I now also have an Eheim intake strainer and filter intake pipe for water changes.

So today (25.04.21) I added 
1 Limnobium laevigatum Tropica 1-2 grow (floating)
1 Microsorum narrow leaf (put onto manzanita wood)
1 Helanthium tenellum green Tropica 1-2 grow (put at front near sand


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## John q (4 Apr 2021)

All you're missing is the cuddly toy. 😆


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## Trakkajack (4 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> All you're missing is the cuddly toy. 😆


All the gear and no idea!!  How do I attach a video of the tank?


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## John q (4 Apr 2021)

You'll have to post on YouTube or similar and link it. Forum doesn't support video uploads (file size I think)


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## Trakkajack (4 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> You'll have to post on YouTube or similar and link it. Forum doesn't support video uploads (file size I think)


Oh gosh. No idea how to do that! That’s a shame as I’m having algae issues and wanted to know what to do. Will take a photo instead. Thank you


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## Trakkajack (6 Apr 2021)

This is the algae. I’m not sure what to do re lighting levels etc


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## Trakkajack (6 Apr 2021)

The tank


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## Tom Michael (6 Apr 2021)

It’s diatoms, which are no big deal, do frequent large water changes and add some algae eaters after a couple of weeks ( check out the tropic app!) I like the simplicity of your wood layout v nice.

key thing from my experience is to ensure your Co2 is on point- ie a nice lime green lights on. I don’t know how strong your lights are but less intense with a 4-5 photo period to start will help. I also like floating plants or to float some stems to start.


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## Trakkajack (6 Apr 2021)

Tom Michael said:


> It’s diatoms, which are no big deal, do frequent large water changes and add some algae eaters after a couple of weeks ( check out the tropic app!) I like the simplicity of your wood layout v nice.
> 
> key thing from my experience is to ensure your Co2 is on point- ie a nice lime green lights on. I don’t know how strong your lights are but less intense with a 4-5 photo period to start will help. I also like floating plants or to float some stems to start.


Thank you. I don’t have CO2. That seemed too complicated for me as a novice. Ok lights will be cut back. Water changes was every day 90% then every other day about 80%. I am having to fill the tank from the cold water hose as my submersible pump was damaged in transit and I’m awaiting another. Could that be a reason too?


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## Tom Michael (6 Apr 2021)

Diatoms come with most newly set ups- I don’t know the reasons but colder water won’t be one of them. You can remove most of it with an old toothbrush if unsightly, but algae eaters will clear pronto!

not co2 is a good idea if your new to the hobby- good water movement at the surface will help with using the small amounts of atmospheric co2. Lower lighting is the key and patience!


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## John q (6 Apr 2021)

Tank looks good, diatoms and some of the leaf melt is common with new set ups, new plants e.t.c, as mentioned keep up with the water changes and try to remove some of the diatoms, remove the leaf if it starts to die. Reduce the lighting intensity if you can.

I'd probably wait until the tank is cycled before adding live stock, especially as you have ada/ tropica substrate and will likely be releasing high amounts of ammonia for a good few weeks.


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## Trakkajack (10 Apr 2021)

Tom Michael said:


> Diatoms come with most newly set ups- I don’t know the reasons but colder water won’t be one of them. You can remove most of it with an old toothbrush if unsightly, but algae eaters will clear pronto!
> 
> not co2 is a good idea if your new to the hobby- good water movement at the surface will help with using the small amounts of atmospheric co2. Lower lighting is the key and patience!


Thank you. I have turned off two of the lights and am now just using the one light for a shorter period (the light that has the white, red and blue) - I’ve just took everything out, cleaned it and redone the tank adding more plants as I made areal mess doing a water change using my new submersible pump eek


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## Trakkajack (10 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> Tank looks good, diatoms and some of the leaf melt is common with new set ups, new plants e.t.c, as mentioned keep up with the water changes and try to remove some of the diatoms, remove the leaf if it starts to die. Reduce the lighting intensity if you can.
> 
> I'd probably wait until the tank is cycled before adding live stock, especially as you have ada/ tropica substrate and will likely be releasing high amounts of ammonia for a good few weeks.


Lights reduced thanks. Definitely not ready for livestock yet! I can’t keep plants alive let alone anything else! I’ve taken out the subsoil as I was a numpty and didn’t cap it. Add that to a messy water change and I had real trouble. So with advice from Aquarium Gardens I added soil powder, removed the substrate which was just mud by this stage and added more plants. I’m basically starting again but it’s a big learning curve and I know better next time!!


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## Trakkajack (10 Apr 2021)




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## Trakkajack (10 Apr 2021)

Oh 


Trakkajack said:


> View attachment 166710View attachment 166711View attachment 166711View attachment 166711View attachment 166712View attachment 166712View attachment 166712View attachment 166712View attachment 166712


it seems the same photo has loaded multiple times?!


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## si walker (10 Apr 2021)

Ah mate! Your going through it and learning. 
Every time I do a water change I learn something.
Spilt water on the carpet at 12 last night. Didn't even know until my partner highlighted it!
She bought me my first fish 20 years ago so there you go!
By the way it's not the first time I have read that someone didn't cap soil. 
Keep learning 👍
Si


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## Paul Kettless (10 Apr 2021)

It's all a learning curve, Im on the same journey.  Let's hope the tank settles in a bit for you now.


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

si walker said:


> Ah mate! Your going through it and learning.
> Every time I do a water change I learn something.
> Spilt water on the carpet at 12 last night. Didn't even know until my partner highlighted it!
> She bought me my first fish 20 years ago so there you go!
> ...


Aww thanks. I’m trying! I’m getting a little obsessed with looking at it and checking it all already. First thing and last thing I do. And I’m only looking at plants so gawd knows what I’m going to be like when I eventually get my shrimp!


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> It's all a learning curve, Im on the same journey.  Let's hope the tank settles in a bit for you now.


Oh I hope so. I’ve got some soil moved already but you know I’m now thinking it adds character as otherwise I’d be doing it again!!


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

Water change coming up in a bit. I’m doing a 90% like in a new tank. I’m worried as the jet of water was too strong yesterday on refill and moved the soil to the front. Despite having a bag around the hose outlet but by the time the water gushed out and I realised eek I had to run 35ft back to the sink to stop the pump - oh gawd. Pump was on minimum too ... I’m sure I will get the hang of it at some point. Well I hope I do ha ha


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## Hufsa (11 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Water change coming up in a bit. I’m doing a 90% like in a new tank. I’m worried as the jet of water was too strong yesterday on refill and moved the soil to the front. Despite having a bag around the hose outlet but by the time the water gushed out and I realised eek I had to run 35ft back to the sink to stop the pump - oh gawd. Pump was on minimum too ... I’m sure I will get the hang of it at some point. Well I hope I do ha ha


Have you checked out George Farmers Red Collander (TM)? Something of the sort may help with the water jet issue. Personally I use a very long spraybar, I think every aquarist finds something that works for them to get around it 😃


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## si walker (11 Apr 2021)

Actually there's a thought, you could use a combo of collinder and your hose. Just make sure it's clamped on to the side of the tank.
I drilled holes in a plastic measuring jug, which hangs of the side. Everyone has their thing!
Just bought some Blue Velvet Shrimp. They are stunning! Plus Amano's 👍.
Have a good one!


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## not called Bob (11 Apr 2021)

my take on the red colander, is half a milk cartoon to direct the flow onto the glass


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

Did the water change. No dramas this time. Phew.


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## John q (11 Apr 2021)

New scape looks good, have you been moving bits of wood about?


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

I moved things around as I added additional stones and soil and plants. Not sure if it’s benefitted but by the time I had finished cleaning everything down and redoing it yesterday I thought it will do ha ha


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

Yes I had my trusty colander but the force of the water threw it off. I had a bag and an elastic band around the end of the spout plus the colander today!!


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## Trakkajack (11 Apr 2021)

si walker said:


> Actually there's a thought, you could use a combo of collinder and your hose. Just make sure it's clamped on to the side of the tank.
> I drilled holes in a plastic measuring jug, which hangs of the side. Everyone has their thing!
> Just bought some Blue Velvet Shrimp. They are stunning! Plus Amano's 👍.
> Have a good one!


That’s a good idea! I need a drill ha ha


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## Trakkajack (12 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> New scape looks good, have you been moving bits of wood about?


I moved it all about and put new soil, stones and plants in. Just hope I’ve done it right this time! Last time the tank looked fine for about 2 weeks then the plants started looking very rough!!


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## Trakkajack (12 Apr 2021)

Try again to just upload one of each ha ha. Any suggestions and advice much appreciated


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## Hufsa (12 Apr 2021)

Looking good 

Just remember it gets worse before it gets better. The start up phase has a lot of work to do, the plants need to adjust to their new environment, archaea and bacteria need to establish and everything needs to settle.
Keep up with your maintenance, dont blast it with too much light and sit tight and try not to panic ( easier said than done  )


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## hypnogogia (12 Apr 2021)

Thats a nicely set up and planed tank.  I also like the look of the Oase tank itself.


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## Trakkajack (12 Apr 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Looking good
> 
> Just remember it gets worse before it gets better. The start up phase has a lot of work to do, the plants need to adjust to their new environment, archaea and bacteria need to establish and everything needs to settle.
> Keep up with your maintenance, dont blast it with too much light and sit tight and try not to panic ( easier said than done  )


Thank you. Last time when I got the diatoms (as I now know them to be) I really started worrying. I’m only having one light on now for about 4 hours. Fingers crossed


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## Trakkajack (12 Apr 2021)

hypnogogia said:


> Thats a nicely set up and planed tank.  I also like the look of the Oase tank itself.


Thanks. It’s definitely been a big learning curve and I’ve only just started ha ha. Yes the tank and cabinet look nice. I got it on a suggestion made on this site. I was originally after a Roma 240. So glad I listened!


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## Karmicnull (12 Apr 2021)

One of the great things about this forum is that scary stuff stops being quite so scary when three people all say "yeah that happened to me too", and another three say "oh that's typical on day 17 - tweak your rocks so they're all West-facing and you'll find it's gone by day 22." 
And then one day you'll notice that you're the one saying me too and telling people to make sure their rocks are West-facing...


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## Trakkajack (12 Apr 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> One of the great things about this forum is that scary stuff stops being quite so scary when three people all say "yeah that happened to me too", and another three say "oh that's typical on day 17 - tweak your rocks so they're all West-facing and you'll find it's gone by day 22."
> And then one day you'll notice that you're the one saying me too and telling people to make sure their rocks are West-facing...


I look forward to that day! I’m just off to get a compass...


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## Trakkajack (25 Apr 2021)

So hopefully I’m back in my original journal with this post. I have today added limnobium laevigatum Tropica 1-2 grow as another floating plant, microsorum narrow leaf onto the wood and helanthium tenellum green Tropiva 1-2 grow into the front of the tank sand border area.

I have cut off the dying leaves and tried to remove some algae.

An updated video is attached. Any advice would be appreciated


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## Welearn (25 Apr 2021)

_looks absolutely stunning hopefully your set up is finally starting to be more stable for you. _


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## Hufsa (25 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> So I’m now increasing the one light to 6 hours. Not there yet ...



Im replying here to your post in your other thread, to help the conversation return to the journal, hope you dont mind 

I really dont think you should spend time gradually increasing your light to 6 hours.
Yes, gradual changes are good for the plants ability to readjust itself.
But, when you have an unfortunate situation going on, like a proper nutrient deficiency, or in your case a lack of sufficient light,
I really think its called for to go right to 6 hours immediately, no gradual change.

In my opinion this situation is different than (for example) someone already having good plant growth but want to try to add 2 more hours to their light period.
In that case I think it could be a good idea to do it a bit gradually, although doing it gradually is still not mandatory.

I hope @John q can agree with me, I think he was the one who suggested going gradually to 6 hours.

I think a lot of us low tech folks run around 10 hours lighting period, so 6 hours really should be the lowest limit.
I have been running mine on 10 hours for many months and recently went up to 12 following the advice of Christel, our new plant expert.
Im sorry for making a bit of a deal out of this but I wouldnt want your plants to do poorly and you feel like you need to restart your tank again.

I have a theory that long lighting periods with relatively low light is beneficial for low tech setups.
Because the plants are only trickle fed small amounts of CO2, it makes sense to me that they could need more hours to "eat their fill".
(1-3 ppm CO2 in low tech vs 30 ppm in high tech)
But thats a tangent for another day.


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## John q (26 Apr 2021)

Hufsa said:


> I hope @John q can agree with me, I think he was the one who suggested going gradually to 6 hours.


Yes I can agree with that. 

I think my suggestion of an instant increase to 5hrs then 3 small steps to 6hrs was possibly on the cautious side and born out of me not wanting to overly stress the plants.
Either way @Trakkajack if you followed the slowly slowly, catchy monkey approach your light period should now be at 6hrs anyway.


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## dw1305 (26 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Hufsa said:


> I have been running mine on 10 hours for many months and recently went up to 12 following the advice of Christel, our new plant expert.


I've always run a <"12 hour day"> as well. 

cheers Darrel


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## Trakkajack (26 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> So I picked up my tank and oodles of goodies from Horizon. Complete novice doesn’t start to give the correct impression of how novice I am!
> 
> I’m waiting for my list from Horizon of exactly what I bought but here’s what I can remember...
> 
> ...





Welearn said:


> _looks absolutely stunning hopefully your set up is finally starting to be more stable for you._


Oh I hope so! Although today I see I must have had some hitchhikers on the plants I put in yesterday - baby snails eek 


John q said:


> Yes I can agree with that.
> 
> I think my suggestion of an instant increase to 5hrs then 3 small steps to 6hrs was possibly on the cautious side and born out of me not wanting to overly stress the plants.
> Either way @Trakkajack if you followed the slowly slowly, catchy monkey approach your light period should now be at 6hrs anyway.


ok. Tomorrow will see a longer light period thank you


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## Trakkajack (26 Apr 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Im replying here to your post in your other thread, to help the conversation return to the journal, hope you dont mind
> 
> I think a lot of us low tech folks run around 10 hours lighting period, so 6 hours really should be the lowest limit.
> I have been running mine on 10 hours for many months and recently went up to 12 following the advice of Christel, our new plant expert.
> ...



 back to my original journal!

All makes sense thank you - I will start tomorrow.


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## Trakkajack (26 Apr 2021)

New plants only been in one day. This morning I wake up to lots of blooming baby snails. Very luckily last Thursday my friend brought me an assassin snail (not seen it since it was deposited into the tank) so hopefully it’s still in there somewhere and it can start eating the other snails that are appearing! Turkey Baster has also arrived as advised thank you!


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## Welearn (27 Apr 2021)

_They look to be Ramshorn snails looking at the photo.
I see you have the Turkey Baster same one as mine you can use the turkey Baster to suck them out! Also the turkey Baster I use is for blowing out detritus in the crevices of the rocks plus for difficult areas where you can't get the gravel vac to go. Have fun with it!! I do!!🤣🤣 😍_


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## John q (27 Apr 2021)

I wouldn't be overly worried about the pest snails at this point unless you're seeing them in their dozens. If you are not adding any food to the tank then its unlikely you'll end with a snail bloom.

You should also remember that those pesky snails will help consume any unwanted algae and rotting or decaying plant matter.
You've also by default accepted to some degree that you need a small population of pest snails to feed the assassin snail, without a food source that will perish.

Without sounding like Elton John think of it as a circle of life ~ the pest snails will eat the waste and algae in the tank and then get eaten by the assassins.

So to conclude, if your seeing the pest snails in their dozens and like me you don't like them, by all means remove a few to keep them in check, but don't blitz them all for the sake of your tank and the assassin snail.


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## Trakkajack (27 Apr 2021)

Welearn said:


> _They look to be Ramshorn snails looking at the photo.
> I see you have the Turkey Baster same one as mine you can use the turkey Baster to suck them out! Also the turkey Baster I use is for blowing out detritus in the crevices of the rocks plus for difficult areas where you can't get the gravel vac to go. Have fun with it!! I do!!🤣🤣 😍_


Yes I got the turkey Baster on your recommendation!  I have an assassin snail in the tank somewhere now (my friend brought it last week but I’ve never seen it yet!)  so was wandering if Kato (that’s the assassin snails name) would eat them?


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## Trakkajack (27 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> So to conclude, if your seeing the pest snails in their dozens and like me you don't like them, by all means remove a few to keep them in check, but don't blitz them all for the sake of your tank and the assassin snail.


Oh ok. The circle of life ...


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## Welearn (27 Apr 2021)

Nice name kato  yes they do eat other snails if the assassin snail you have got is bigger in size.


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## Trakkajack (27 Apr 2021)

Welearn said:


> Nice name kato  yes they do eat other snails if the assassin snail you have got is bigger in size.


The snails that have appeared are tiny babies. Not sure how many. Still no sign of Kato. I guess he’s on a secret mission...


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## Welearn (27 Apr 2021)

In my Reef I have trochus snails these are beneficial but mine only move about after lights are out. I shine a torch through the glass to see um. Kato could be under cover and come out late at night.
May I ask did you acclimate properly because snails are sensitive to change more than fish. I acclimated mine for a hour before putting them into my set up.


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## Wookii (28 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> The snails that have appeared are tiny babies. Not sure how many. Still no sign of Kato. I guess he’s on a secret mission...



Ramshorns snails, as in your image, are one of the best tank janitors you can get in my opinion - I don't consider them a pest snail, they will help keep your plants and tank lovely and clean if you let them. Their population will self regulate depending on the availability of food, and as the snails become adults, and the population will continually regenerate at zero cost to you, unlike expensive nerites. To me Ramshorns are to nerites what cherry shrimp are to Amano shrimp. If it were me, I would abandon the Assassin snail plan and embrace the Ramshorns as free friends, not foe.


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## Trakkajack (28 Apr 2021)

Wookii said:


> To me Ramshorns are to nerites what cherry shrimp are to Amano shrimp.


Can you explain that to me please? Nerites? ...? I was going to get amano shrimp. Should I get cherry?!


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## Trakkajack (28 Apr 2021)

Welearn said:


> did you acclimate properly because snails are sensitive to change more than fish. I acclimated mine for a hour before putting them into my set up.


No the poor thing wasn’t at all. My friend came for tea and chucked him in the tank!


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Ramshorns snails, as in your image, are one of the best tank janitors you can get in my opinion - I don't consider them a pest snail, they will help keep your plants and tank lovely and clean if you let them. Their population will self regulate depending on the availability of food, and as the snails become adults, and the population will continually regenerate at zero cost to you, unlike expensive nerites. To me Ramshorns are to nerites what cherry shrimp are to Amano shrimp. If it were me, I would abandon the Assassin snail plan and embrace the Ramshorns as free friends, not foe.





Trakkajack said:


> Can you explain that to me please? Nerites? ...? I was going to get amano shrimp. Should I get cherry?!


Neither Amano shrimps or Nerite species snail will reproduce successfully in your tank, both have planktonic stages that require sea water for development. You never have more than you purchased, but over time their number will shrink due to "natural wastage" and if you still want them in your tank you have to buy some more.

 The difference with Cherry Shrimps and Ramshorn Snails is that they reproduce successfully in fresh (tank) water, producing mini versions of themselves (no planktonic stage). 

They will form self-sustaining colonies, and (unless severe ill fate intervenes) you never need to buy any more. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (28 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Can you explain that to me please? Nerites? ...? I was going to get amano shrimp. Should I get cherry?!



Essentially what I meant was, neither Nerites nor Amanos can breed in freshwater (they both require brackish water to successfully produce or raise offspring). So the only stock you have, are the ones you buy, and they eventually die so you have to buy more.

Both Ramshorns and Cherry shrimp breed prolifically in fresh water without any intervention. This results in two things - firstly the population is self sustaining meaning your initial acquisition of either species is likely the last you'll ever need to make, providing you don't kill them, or let them get predated.

(EDIT: I see Darrel beat me to the punch on those two points lol)

Secondly, because both species are so prolific, their effectiveness in tank janitor duties, particularly algae control, becomes a numbers game. Nerites and Amano's are considered more efficient - gram for gram - at controlling algae. Amano's have been shown to consume around twice the algae to cherry shrimp for example, however a typical stocking of Amano shrimp in a 60 litre tank might be, say, 10-12 individuals. Introduce cherry shrimp and you can end up with hundreds of individuals. 100 individual shrimp constantly cleaning plant leaves and grazing on hardscape will always be more effective than 10-12 individuals, even when the latter is twice as efficient.

It's a similar case with Nerites, where the recommended stocking density is usually around one individual per 15-20 litres or so. In a 60 litre tank, that's 3-4 individuals. In my low tech I can only guess that my naturally occurring Ramshorn population is in excess of 30 adults  - it's quite likely way more than that and I can only see half of them at any one time. Again, though Nerites are quite possibly more effective at algae control gram for gram, the numbers game puts the effectiveness much more in the Ramshorns favour.

I think the numbers game is important if you want the clean up crew to prevent algae. Prevention requires them to feed on and limit the growth of algae at the microscopic level long before it becomes visible to our eyes. Once we can see the algae, it is almost too late, as it is generally too large at that point for the algae eaters to tackle it. So the numbers game the Cherries and Ramshorn's achieve, ensures that each leaf surface and piece of hardscape is passed over, tended to and grazed upon much more frequently than would be the case with Nerites and Amanos, increasing their effectiveness at supressing it. At least that's my theory!


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## Trakkajack (28 Apr 2021)

Wookii said:


> Essentially what I meant was, neither Nerites nor Amanos can breed in freshwater (they both require brackish water to successfully produce or raise offspring). So the only stock you have, are the ones you buy, and they eventually die so you have to buy more.
> 
> Both Ramshorns and Cherry shrimp breed prolifically in fresh water without any intervention. This results in two things - firstly the population is self sustaining meaning your initial acquisition of either species is likely the last you'll ever need to make, providing you don't kill them, or let them get predated.
> 
> ...


Ohh I see! Very well explained thank you. I understand now. Much appreciated


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> Secondly, because both species are so prolific, their effectiveness in tank janitor duties, particularly algae control, becomes a numbers game.





Wookii said:


> So the numbers game the Cherries and Ramshorn's achieve, ensures that each leaf surface and piece of hardscape is passed over, tended to and grazed upon much more frequently than would be the case with Nerites and Amanos, increasing their effectiveness at supressing it.


That is what I think as well. I've managed to <"kill all my RCS"> in some <"soft water"> and/or cichlid related mishaps, but a combination of Tadpole Shrimps*, MTS  <"Red Ramshorn"> snails, _Asellus_ and _Crangonyx _now <"perform janitorial duties for me">.

*edit That should have been "Tadpole Snails" (_Physella acuta_) and not "Tadpole Shrimps" (_Triops_ spp.) 

cheers Darrel


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## Trakkajack (28 Apr 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Neither Amano shrimps or Nerite species snail will reproduce successfully in your tank, both have planktonic stages that require sea water for development. You never have more than you purchased, but over time their number will shrink due to "natural wastage" and if you still want them in your tank you have to buy some more.
> ...


Thank you. I’m learning lots from this site and all you experts and it’s great that you all take the time to explain things to a numpty newbie!


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## Wookii (28 Apr 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> That is what I think as well. I've managed to <"kill all my RCS"> in some <"soft water"> and/or cichlid related mishaps, but a combination of Tadpole Shrimps, MTS  <"Red Ramshorn"> snails, _Asellus_ and _Crangonyx _now <"perform janitorial duties for me">.
> ...



Not seen you mention tadpole shrimp before Darrel, they're a new on on me - they look positively prehistoric, like miniature Horseshoe crabs!

Do you find your Cichlids leave the Asellus and Crangonyx alone?


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Trakkajack said:


> take the time to explain things to a numpty newbie!


You are welcome. I think there is a lot of "froth" (or "<difference of opinion>") talked about what is <"important in fish keeping">. For me the <"important bits"> (<"the coffee, not the froth">) are:

Have plenty of actively growing plants.
Have <"plenty of oxygen">.
Feed you fish a good diet.
Change some water.
cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305 (28 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> Not seen you mention tadpole shrimp before Darrel


Unfortunately that should have been Tadpole Snail (_Physella acuta_).


Wookii said:


> they look positively prehistoric, like miniature Horseshoe crabs!


I tried keeping _Triops longicaudatus_ when the kids were little (some-one bought them a kit). It didn't go very well, because they are cannabilistic and their numbers rapidly thinned. The shrimp  diet was obviously good for them because the (ever decreasing number of) survivors grew like mad.


Wookii said:


> Do you find your Cichlids leave the Asellus and Crangonyx alone?


_Asellus _survive, but _Crangonyx _are obviously a lot tastier and they don't. Even the <"_Copella callolepis_"> I have at the moment have managed to eat ~95% of them. 

I have a "tastiness index",  which is ranked by how much effort the fish will put into chasing live food, even when they are pretty well fed. Mosquito larvae (including Blood worms), Grindal worms and Black worms are pretty near the top, and _Daphnia & Asellus_ pretty near the bottom. _Crangonyx_ and _Cyclops_ are somewhere in the middle and most of my fish ignore Ostracods and dried food all together unless times are really tough. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Karmicnull (28 Apr 2021)

One minor addition to the Cherry shrimp vs Amano decision is that in my limited experience Amanos seem better at dealing with thread algae - I have a healthy colony of cherry shrimp (I'm guessing 150 or so) in my 130 litre tank, but it wasn't until I added 4 Amanos that the thread algae went away.  I'd managed to minimize it by messing around with lighting and plant location, but introduction of the Amanos was the point when it went from 'minimal' to 'none'.

And on the snail front, I would have to say that notwithstanding their lack of ability to produce a self-sustaining population, Nerites do look dead good!  Although my Lava snail still wins purely because - even for a snail - he's really stupid (which turns out to be surprisingly entertaining for spectators).


----------



## Trakkajack (29 Apr 2021)

So I’ve just done another say 80% water change. I’m still doing water changes every other day or every second day depending on work. But; I just seem to be growing more and more algae I have my baby ramshorn snails and my assassin snail. My friends Sister who has tanks says I need to add amonia to cycle the tank or I will be on this treadmill for ever and tank won’t cycle. Is that right? Shall I get Dr Tim’s ammonia? I’m confused.


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## Hufsa (29 Apr 2021)

No, dont add ammonia. I dont have @dw1305 's usual links but basically ammonia cycling is based on outdated scientific knowledge, but many aquarists are not aware of this yet. You have diatom growth, your brown hairy algae. (This is the pizza and beer party I was talking about) Everything is on the right track, carry on as usual


----------



## Trakkajack (29 Apr 2021)

Hufsa said:


> (This is the pizza and beer party I was talking about) Everything is on the right track, carry on as usual


That’s reassuring thank you as that’s where I thought I was. Many thanks!


----------



## John q (29 Apr 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> My friends Sister who has tanks says I need to add amonia to cycle the tank


That wouldn't be the same friend that dropped the assassin in your tank without acclimatising it would it?

You do need some level of ammonia to provide a food source for the bacteria, but my understanding is in a planted tank the plants will provide this, I'm assuming through decaying plant matter.
Also worth noting your substrate which I think is ada and tropica will also be leaching amonia, hence the reason for the large water changes to remove it.

Tell your friend not to worry, you've got all your bases covered.


----------



## dw1305 (29 Apr 2021)

Hi all,


Trakkajack said:


> My friends Sister who has tanks says I need to add amonia to cycle the tank or I will be on this treadmill for ever and tank won’t cycle. Is that right? Shall I get Dr Tim’s ammonia? I’m confused.


Point your sister's friend towards <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">. It leads on from the <"Bacteria in a bottle"> thread.

"Cycling" is a <"really divisive subject">.


Hufsa said:


> No, dont add ammonia. I dont have @dw1305 's usual links but basically ammonia cycling is based on outdated scientific knowledge, but many aquarists are not aware of this yet.


Yes, that is the one. <"Plant/microbe" biofiltration"> is much more efficient than "microbe only" biofiltration, so planted tanks are never wholly reliant on the microbial assemblage in the filter. The only time when ammonia based cycling might be relevant is in the <"mbuna scenario">.

The bacteria that needed high ammonia loadings and carbonate hardness <"don't actually occur in aquarium filters">, but what do are <"an assemblage of, previously unknown, nitrifying organisms"> that occur over a much wider range of ammonia loadings and pH values.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Trakkajack (29 Apr 2021)

John q said:


> That wouldn't be the same friend that dropped the assassin in your tank without acclimatising it would it?


No it’s the girl I work with sister who has tanks. She said about needing amonia. Yes it makes good sense about the soil. I thought it was right not needing to add it but I’m not confident yet - I said on ukaps they said no ha ha.


----------



## Trakkajack (10 May 2021)

So I went to Ferrybridge Aquatics on Saturday and got my first fish. They were helpful. Not into aquascaping which Horizon said was the case but very knowledgeable on their fish.

I got some Phosguard as the owner said this time of year around here the hair algae appears due to the farmers spraying and the run off going into the water course. So to use this. It happens each year in this area!


I got 2 Discus plus appropriate 
1 Oticinclus 
2 Bristlenose super red 

Hope they do ok. Panicking already...


----------



## Wookii (10 May 2021)

Erm . . . . I can possibly hear the collective facepalming from here unfortunately @Trakkajack

You may have been sold inappropriate fish (experienced Discus keepers on here will comment I'm sure), and an unnecessary chemical product on the basis of a false assumption.

On the Discus AFAIK need to be kept in a temperature of 28-30 C, which won't be suitable for most of your plants, and unless they are a breeding pair (which I suspect they are not) need to most certainly be kept in a larger group.

Sorry - keep editing my post - also the Oto's shouldn't be kept singularly, I'm amazed they sold you a single fish.


----------



## Trakkajack (10 May 2021)

Wookii said:


> Erm . . . . I can possibly hear the collective facepalming from here unfortunately @Trakkajack
> 
> You may have been sold inappropriate fish (experienced Discus keepers on here will comment I'm sure), and an unnecessary chemical product on the basis of a false assumption.
> 
> ...


Oh gosh. I went there as I was told they have great knowledge of their fish. I explained I was a complete novice and phoned ahead so they had time to deal with me.

I need to get another Otto then?!  Poor thing ...  I think they only had one left?

I feel sick ... oh I hope the poor fish will be ok. I explained everything to them and that I would be guided by them.

I have my water temperature up to 28.5 now. Going higher each day to get up to 30 degrees ...


----------



## Hufsa (10 May 2021)

@Wookii you have good hearing, all the way over the ocean is quite impressive.
I was reluctant to write something as its never fun to be the rain on a parade but ...

Im not a discus keeper so I will leave the details down to those, but I do know that its a very bad idea to add two of them to a newly set up tank.

Otocinclus should also not be the first ones to go in, snails and shrimp first. Otos live in schools of hundreds of individuals in the wild and I find it unbelievably ... special that they sold just one lone individual to you.

In addition to that any chemical removing media (outside of charcoal to remove medication and possibly purigen to remove tannins) is a load of hooey and only serve to line the pockets of the salespeople.
Phosphate is an essential plant nutrient and using this runs the very real risk of starving your plants, ironically leading to algae issues.
Algae is not caused by excess nutrients as long as your tank is not way out of balance. Hair algae is most commonly associated with light/CO2 imbalance, not phosphate.

The bristlenose are okay-ish, they may rearrange your plants and also eat some of them, but some find that endearing.

If I were you I would go straight back to the store with Phosguard, both discus and the oto (and maybe bristlenoses) and get your money back.
The discus run a very real risk of dying and the oto will be better to purchase later with a group of his species.
They have proven themselves not to be trusted to give you any sort of advice, and from now on I would recommend you do your own research or ask here on the forum before heading out to buy livestock. I dont blame you for this, many new fishkeepers have been misled by the shockingly poor knowledge or ignorance of fish shops, so its an unfortunate thing to have to learn. However I hope from here on out you will make sure it doesnt happen again.


----------



## Hufsa (10 May 2021)

The fish will be safer in the shops' tanks as I assume they are at least competent enough to have cycled filters.
You can always repurchase the species of fish later down the road, when you find out if they will be a good fit for your tank.
Both otos and discus are very sensitive fish.

Do they have any snails and shrimp there?
Ideal clean up crew for aquascapes are nerite/clithon snails, amano shrimp and cherry shrimp


----------



## Trakkajack (10 May 2021)

Hufsa said:


> The fish will be safer in the shops' tanks as I assume they are at least competent enough to have cycled filters.
> You can always repurchase the species of fish later down the road, when you find out if they will be a good fit for your tank.
> Both otos and discus are very sensitive fish.
> 
> ...


I did ask about shrimp and snails and was told not to worry. I checked and double checked but ultimately I believed what they said and should have trusted my gut and what I had learnt from here and the research.

I feel all my months of preparation were for nothing.

Apologies for not consulting on here and for believing the shop ...


----------



## Wookii (10 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Oh gosh. I went there as I was told they have great knowledge of their fish. I explained I was a complete novice and phoned ahead so they had time to deal with me.
> 
> I need to get another Otto then?!  Poor thing ...  I think they only had one left?
> 
> ...



Don't panic, it's not your fault. Unfortunately its a sad fact that most LFS don't seem to know what on earth they are doing for the most part. Why one would sell a complete beginner some Discus is astonishing.

As @Hufsa says, on the Oto's, in the wild they live in groups of hundreds, sometimes even thousands of individuals, so they are very social. You could either take the fish back, or just get him/her some friends, and they'll be fine. A small shoal of 5-6 should be the minimum really. They do also have specific dietary requirements, and although they are often bought in the hobby as 'algae eaters', they do also need to be target fed with veggies (cucumber, courgette, blanched spinach etc) and algae wafers.

On the Discus, these are very specialist fish indeed, with very specific care and dietary requirements. Typically discus tanks are designed and set up from the outset to specifically house and care for the fish.

You have two choices I think, either go full-on 'discus' with all that entails, or take them back to the shop for a refund. If I were you, I would go with the latter.

Once the discus are gone, bring your temps back down to 22-23 degrees, then post back on here for some fish recommendations. You'll probably get 20 recommendations of 20 different fish, as everyone has their favourites, but you'll be assured that they'll be much more suited to your tank.

On the Phosguard, just get a refund on that. In a planted tank we intentionally add phosphate to help the plants grow, it is an essential nutrient. It has also long been debunked that phosphate causes algae - but that's a different topic of its own.


----------



## Hufsa (10 May 2021)

Again this is not your fault, you were told they were knowledgeable and you even made sure they knew you were new to this and needed guidance.
None of us here blame you, I really cant stress that enough.

This has happened thousands of times and will likely continue to happen because as a newbie, how will you know who is knowledgeable and who isnt when everyone claims that they are?
You place your trust in people who are professionals because why wouldnt you, it seems perfectly sensible.
They should know what they are doing, but unfortunately many of them dont.
If you confront them about their poor advice they will say the "people on the internet are hysterical" or some other excuse and I think many of them genuinely believe it.
However here we have no financial motive, nothing to gain from you. I wont get any money from you. Whereas if you buy two expensive discus, and they die shortly, you might come back to buy two more and they might even be able to convince you to buy some other medicine or chemical product, earning them even more money.

No harm has been done so far, especially if you can return the fish. You havent ruined your tank, dont worry.
If they dont have any snails or shrimp I would see if I could locate another shop that does.
They will get started on your algae issues immediately. Maybe @Wookii can recommend amounts for you so that you know exactly what to get.

Edit: Aside from the fish issue, if you have a lot of algae now be sure to post some photos for us if you want help with that


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## Wookii (10 May 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Edit: Aside from the fish issue, if you have a lot of algae now be sure to post some photos for us if you want help with that



@Trakkajack

For algae control, I'm a fan of Ramshorns snails and Cherry shrimp. You can't really have too many of either in a planted tank in my humble opinion. The great benefit with them is that they both breed readily in freshwater so their populations will increase without intervention, and those populations will self regulate based on the amount of available food.

You can get Amano's and Nerites too, but they're not cheap, and they can't produce offspring successfully in fresh water, so their population constantly needs to be 're-purchased' to maintain it.

Cherry shrimp can be purchased online, or via eBay, but 'Shrimp Marketplace' on Band is a good place to buy straight from breeders. Or indeed you can get some in the classifieds on this forum depending on what colour you'd like. I believe @Steve Buce regularly has shrimp for sale. You want to make sure you get specifically Neocaridina shrimp, not Caridina, as the latter can be a little more specialist, where as the former are generally very easy to look after (in fact they don't really require any looking after). In terms of quantity to start with, it depends how patient you are - you can start with 10 and the population will grow on its own. I'm impatient though, so I'd probably add more depending on cost.

On the Ramshorns, Steve has these too, or I can send you some.


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## John q (10 May 2021)

Oh heck, proper baptism of fire..  chin up, you'll get through it. 👍


Trakkajack said:


> have my water temperature up to 28.5 now. Going higher each day to get up to 30 degrees


I wouldn't raise the temperature any higher, infact I'd lower it a tad to 27⁰c, that's not ideal for the Discus but they'll survive in it, at 30⁰c the Bristlenose and Ottolincus will probably struggle, so best to find a compromise that they can all manage in for now.


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## ScaperJoe (10 May 2021)

Wanted to second the recent advice on this thread - as someone who researched, watched hours of youtube videos and read a lot on the theory of a planted tank, but failed in preparing for the fish care part - that was only 2 months ago for me. Mistakes were made and I wish I had found the guidance offered here.

The good news is that your situation is different , listen to the good folk because there's a wealth of knowledge and experience that money can't buy. Plus, you should know that the vast majority make a few mistakes at the outset  - we're humans!


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## Trakkajack (11 May 2021)

Wookii said:


> @Trakkajack
> 
> I believe @Steve Buce regularly has shrimp for sale.
> 
> On the Ramshorns, Steve has these too, or I can send you some.


I have messaged Steve so hopefully he will see at some point.

I have some baby ramshorn snails that arrived on a plant.

I did or do have an assassin snail that my friend threw in! No idea if Kato is alive. Never seen him yet?!

I’m going back to the fish shop today to talk through my issues with them. It should be interesting.... they are my local shop and I do want to forge a relationship with them if I can!


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## Tom Michael (11 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> I have messaged Steve so hopefully he will see at some point.
> 
> I have some baby ramshorn snails that arrived on a plant.
> 
> ...


Without repeating everything already said, you should definitely take them back and the store should, at the very least provide you with the equivalent in credit so you can stock with more suitable livestock (in the past I managed a pet shop with aquarium section) in future I would do your own research (inc UKAPS) as the advice they provided was clearly incorrect.

The good news is it’s all resolvable and great that you can rectify immediately, we have all been in this position in the past, all part of the learning curve 👍.

when I was young I had an Oscar chiclid in a 20 long, as a result of my local aquarium store advice 😬


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## Trakkajack (20 May 2021)

So since I made a boo boo and bought my discus I have been doing lots and lots of research on the discus and speaking to Devotedly Discus and joined a forum for this type of discus. I have decided to get another tank. One for aquascaping and one for discus .... and so my obsession begins eh. I even have the start of a bits and bobs kit (oh it’s so exciting!)  I got 2 more Otocinclis from Ferrybridge Aquatics and had a good long chat with them.  I now have 12 amano shrimp and 6 nitrite snails from Horizon Aquarics and they are doing a very good job of clearing my algae (along with me getting better at realising what I’m doing and managing the tank and lighting etc.)

I realise there is a lot to take on board with discus but I’ve made my choice and am now going to be in 2 camps! Although it appears there is a hierarchy in discus too (it’s like the dog or horse world ha ha!)

So despite my nativity and stupidity at buying the beautiful discus I am hoping to learn lots which I am rapidly doing!

anyone got a 350l tank and cabinet and brilliant filter etc they no longer want as I’m on the look out .... ha ha

So despite me being a numpty and buying the discus please let me stay and lurk and learn lots more. My aquascaping tank needs ya!


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## John q (20 May 2021)

Well it looks like you're getting decent growth in the tank and it's starting to take shape 👏



Trakkajack said:


> So despite me being a numpty and buying the discus please let me stay and lurk and learn lots more. My aquascaping tank needs ya!


A numpty would have no idea how to move forward from this, at least you have a plan..  Don't put yourself down. 

Lurking isn't allowed, we want constant updates on this tank and the Discus tank. 👍


----------



## Wookii (20 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> So since I made a boo boo and bought my discus I have been doing lots and lots of research on the discus and speaking to Devotedly Discus and joined a forum for this type of discus. I have decided to get another tank. One for aquascaping and one for discus .... and so my obsession begins eh. I even have the start of a bits and bobs kit (oh it’s so exciting!)  I got 2 more Otocinclis from Ferrybridge Aquatics and had a good long chat with them.  I now have 12 amano shrimp and 6 nitrite snails from Horizon Aquarics and they are doing a very good job of clearing my algae (along with me getting better at realising what I’m doing and managing the tank and lighting etc.)
> 
> I realise there is a lot to take on board with discus but I’ve made my choice and am now going to be in 2 camps! Although it appears there is a hierarchy in discus too (it’s like the dog or horse world ha ha!)
> 
> ...



I agree with John, don't be hard on yourself.

I love the look of discus, I always admire them when I see them in my LFS's, but I wouldn't have the time to dedicate to them. Luckily for me, I'll be able to look at your new discus tank instead, so make sure you keep the updates coming 👍

If you're trying to get a big tank on the cheap, post an ad in the classifieds on this forum, and also try trawling eBay. Big aquariums don't sell well second hand, so you can pick up some real bargains if you're prepared to travel and collect.

If you're looking for any assistance on keeping Discus, I think there are some owners or ex-owners on this forum. I know @Ady34 used to keep them - there is a picture at the start of his amazing 'Re-education' thread here: Re-education.....


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## Trakkajack (20 May 2021)

John q said:


> Lurking isn't allowed, we want constant updates on this tank and the Discus tank. 👍


Thank you for being so kind.
As soon as I get my tank and it’s ready the discus will be moved across, others bought so I have the appropriate amount and I can then get back to my aquascaping on my little tank!

I will get there. I’m just taking a scenic route  ....  oh yes photos of both tanks will definitely be posted and advice sought!


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## Trakkajack (20 May 2021)

Wookii said:


> If you're trying to get a big tank on the cheap, post an ad in the classifieds on this forum, and also try trawling eBay. Big aquariums don't sell well second hand, so you can pick up some real bargains if you're prepared to travel and collect.
> 
> If you're looking for any assistance on keeping Discus, I think there are some owners or ex-owners on this forum. I know @Ady34 used to keep them - there is a picture at the start of his amazing 'Re-education' thread here: Re-education.....


Thank you. I will have a nosy!

I will try and find the classified area here and post thank you.

yes I can travel and collect and have been looking on eBay. I have a Volvo estate and am willing and able to fill that boot ha ha


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## Trakkajack (20 May 2021)

What do you do at night Nicola? Ermmmm. Sit and watch my tank ... ha ha


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## Trakkajack (20 May 2021)

Shrimp are fascinating


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## John q (20 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> What do you do at night Nicola? Ermmmm. Sit and watch my tank ... ha ha


To be fair its probably more entertaining than half the shite that's on the telly 🙂


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## Trakkajack (22 May 2021)

The clean up crew are making good progress!


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## nayr88 (24 May 2021)

great to see you've beaten the diatoms etc when reading through this I could really see the potential with the scape.
Interesting choice of fish too, have you always kept Discuss as you mention the co2 idea being a bit much for a beginner but I'm scared to death of attempting Discus but happy to throw Co2 into any tank haha!! 

once the Discus are moved on do you have an idea on new tank occupants? other than clean up crew.


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## Trakkajack (24 May 2021)

nayr88 said:


> great to see you've beaten the diatoms etc when reading through this I could really see the potential with the scape.
> Interesting choice of fish too, have you always kept Discuss as you mention the co2 idea being a bit much for a beginner but I'm scared to death of attempting Discus but happy to throw Co2 into any tank haha!!
> 
> once the Discus are moved on do you have an idea on new tank occupants? other than clean up crew.


Thank you.
My clean up crew are working overtime!

I had no intention of getting discus. I love them and thought they were too specialised for me but the local fish shop encouraged me to get them rightly or wrongly and it’s led to a whole new world of learning about those too now!

thankfully they’re still alive (got the Goodheart food and have been in touch with Devotedly Discus lots!)   They’re very confident and eat from my hand.  The shrimp are always out too and the otocinclis never stop darting about. They’re very entertaining.

I am just looking at larger tanks for them now ....

once I’ve got them finally moved and added more discus then I will have a look and think about my aquascape tank so until I can afford the big new tank I’m a bit stuck. A victim of my choices ha ha.
Thankfully at the moment the two discus I have are not squabbling....
I am not in a rush. I will get there and have 2 tanks now it seems ...
I have trouble with all the pipes and cleaning the filter and putting it all back together as it is without CO2- I flooded the living room and hall the other week as I had not sealed and locked the bit of the pump where the filter sponges sit. Now that was fun ... NOT and it knocked my confidence so I haven’t touched it since eek!


----------



## Karmicnull (24 May 2021)

Total admiration for your gumption in going head on into discus keeping!  Especially with living room flood....


----------



## Trakkajack (26 May 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> Especially with living room flood....


The house smells of pond. I’m sort of getting used to it ha ha

I am a numpty and not technically minded or practical at all so it’s all been a big learning curve. As long as the fish are ok and healthy that’s all I’m bothered about.

my plants are starting to grow too now. Ohh it’s exciting.... 

The discus ....  well; we all have to live with our life’s choices - I bought them. Now I gotta do right by them!


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## Trakkajack (26 May 2021)

Isn’t he/she gorgeous!


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## Trakkajack (26 May 2021)

I see I didn’t 


Trakkajack said:


> So I picked up my tank and oodles of goodies from Horizon. Complete novice doesn’t start to give the correct impression of how novice I am!
> 
> I’m waiting for my list from Horizon of exactly what I bought but here’s what I can remember...
> 
> ...


I see I didn’t add any photos!


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## Trakkajack (26 May 2021)

The fish and shrimp are really cheeky. They all come out and eat from my hand. Even the shrimp swim up!  The shrimp love the good heart discus food .... I’m fascinated by them all


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## Jayefc1 (26 May 2021)

Wish my discus eat out of my hand they just run off as soon as I get near the tank lol


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## Trakkajack (26 May 2021)

Jayefc1 said:


> Wish my discus eat out of my hand they just run off as soon as I get near the tank lol


Maybe it’s because there are only two young ones in my tank as yet? I am feeding goodheart - they definitely really like it! It’s so funny to see the amano shrimp swim out. Grab a bit then sit and eat it. The otocinclus love it too ha ha. They have me well trained .... I am the giver of grub


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## Jayefc1 (27 May 2021)

I have 8 baby discus and about 300 yellow cherry shrimp.with some nano fish the discus have only been in the.tank 5 days so.still.early.


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## Trakkajack (27 May 2021)

Jayefc1 said:


> I have 8 baby discus and about 300 yellow cherry shrimp.with some nano fish the discus have only been in the.tank 5 days so.still.early.


Oh that’s lovely. How big is your tank please and what filter do you have?  I need to get a bigger tank now I’m going down the discus route too. I was told the discus could eat the shrimp and to just get larger amano. I wanted cherry as well - you don’t find that then?  What other fish do you have? I’m uncertain what to add; especially having the smaller tank ....


----------



## Trakkajack (27 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Oh that’s lovely. How big is your tank please and what filter do you have?  I need to get a bigger tank now I’m going down the discus route too. I was told the discus could eat the shrimp and to just get larger amano. I wanted cherry as well - you don’t find that then?  What other fish do you have? I’m uncertain what to add; especially having the smaller tank ....


Just read your thread. Sorry ... really interesting thank you!


----------



## Trakkajack (27 May 2021)

So I was on another Facebook page lurking and they were saying about water changes and testing. I tested mine yesterday via the Aquarium Lab multi test kit and thought I was doing great but someone said (on a different thread) that your KH and GH should be virtually the same ...

mine aren’t so now I’m panicking again

my results are:
Amonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 8
KH 4
GH 14
 According to the rear of the box I’m doing ok. Should I be worried as I don’t really know what it all means. I’m literally following instructions....


----------



## Jayefc1 (27 May 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Just read your thread. Sorry ... really interesting thank you!


Ita a pleasure the tank is 284ltrs not sure if that is in the thread and I have 2 filter running and two heater good job I did have 2 heaters the discus are not at all interested in the shrimp and the colony is so large a few losses won't make any difference


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## dw1305 (27 May 2021)

Hi all,


Trakkajack said:


> that your KH and GH should be virtually the same ...


<"Usually dGH and dKH"> are linked because they both come from the dissolution of limestone (CaCO3) and that provides a 1 : 1 ratio of Ca++ (dGH) and 2HCO3- (dKH).

They don't have to be linked, you can add just dGH with a salt like calcium chloride (CaCl.2H2O) and just dKH with a salt like potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3). 


Trakkajack said:


> Amonia 0
> Nitrite 0
> Nitrate 0
> PH 8
> ...


I'd be very surprised if <"you didn't have any nitrate (NO3-)">, and my guess would be that the dGH and dKH values are more similar to each other. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Trakkajack (28 May 2021)

Jayefc1 said:


> the shrimp and the colony is so large a few losses won't make any difference


Yes I suppose when you have that many if they do eat a good few it’s just management lol


----------



## Trakkajack (28 May 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> <"Usually dGH and dKH"> are linked because they both come from the dissolution of limestone (CaCO3) and that provides a 1 : 1 ratio of Ca++ (dGH) and 2HCO3- (dKH).
> 
> ...


Now I best just be honest - I haven’t got a scooby what all that means ....

what further tests should I do?

what should I buy or add?

please make your reply idiot proof!!

thank youuuuu....


----------



## dw1305 (28 May 2021)

Hi all,


Trakkajack said:


> Now I best just be honest - I haven’t got a scooby what all that means ....


Honestly that is absolutely fine.

I think of it a bit like driving a car, you can be an entirely competent driver without understanding the software architecture of the Engine Management System and if you do understand it? It doesn't make you a better driver.


Trakkajack said:


> what further tests should I do?


I wouldn't do any.  It's not that I don't want to know what the parameters of the water are, but there are a <"*lot of variables*">.

I began promoting the <"Duckweed Index"> (<"I've used it"> from long before it had a name) because it did a way with a lot of the need for water testing. Even though they have very different aims and techniques the same applies to Estimative Index (EI), <"you don't need to test">.

Simply put:


> ........ personally I'm a pretty shoddy aquarium keeper, so I need to cut to the chase, which for me is:





> Rather than the regular addition of nutrients, I use <"a different approach">. I have a floating plant (usually <"_Limnobium laevigatum">_) and ,<"heavy planting"> of <"easy" plants"> in the tanks. I just watch the <"growth and leaf colour of the floating plant"> (so not CO2, or light, limited), all the time the leaves are green and the plant growing (how ever slowly) I don't add any nutrients (other than whatever arrives via water changes).
> 
> *When plant growth (or leaf colour) deteriorates I add some nutrients, once growth has resumed it is back to observing and waiting.*



cheers Darrel


----------



## Trakkajack (28 May 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Honestly that is absolutely fine.
> 
> ...


I remember this test from previous! Lol

my fish look fine and are confident and eating well.

my plants are looking fine.

my algae is clearing up!

so I guess I just keep doing what I’m doing: learn more and chill and enjoy!

thank you

I’m off too look in my doo dah drawer ...


----------



## dw1305 (28 May 2021)

Hi all,


Trakkajack said:


> my fish look fine and are confident and eating well.
> 
> my plants are looking fine.
> 
> ...


Perfect, jobs a good un.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Trakkajack (30 May 2021)

Anyone else get thrown out too?! Sorry -saw it and couldn’t resist.....


----------



## Trakkajack (7 Jun 2021)

Could anyone advise please. I’ve just come up from work and checked on the tank and fed the discus and one of my super red bristlenose is dead. The shrimp were feasting on him ...

from the photos can anyone tell me what I’ve done wrong. It’s my first loss. I’m devastated and now thinking the others will follow ...

just done a water test ... in photos


----------



## John q (7 Jun 2021)

Sometimes these things happen mate, I've kept fish for over 30 years and Sometimes they die without rhyme or reason. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, at least there's nothing obvious from the photos. 

Could well be the fish was ill when you got it, or wasn't acclimatised slowly enough when it first went into the tank, as in high nitrate at lfs, to low nitrate in your tank, or could be you had an ammonia~nitrite spike when all the fish were originally added and this one couldn't cope with the long term effects of that, these are just guesses.

It's never easy when you lose a fish, but sadly it happens on occasion. 

Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## Trakkajack (7 Jun 2021)

John q said:


> Sometimes these things happen mate,


Thank you. I’m new to all this so thought someone might see something very obvious. In a way I’m glad there’s not I suppose.


John q said:


> Sorry I can't be more helpful.


No you have been helpful. I appreciate you taking a look and replying. Thank you


----------



## dw1305 (8 Jun 2021)

Hi all, 


Trakkajack said:


> one of my super red bristlenose is dead.


It might be a low oxygen effect,  if the water is very warm? 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Trakkajack (8 Jun 2021)

dw1305 said:


> It might be a low oxygen effect,  if the water is very warm?


I have it at 28 degrees. I have a spray bar and a bubble spongy thing. Should I turn the bubble thing up higher or the spray bar more to 12 o clock. It’s at about 8 minutes past at the moment....


----------



## Wookii (8 Jun 2021)

According to Seriously Fish, the preferred temp range for a Common Bristlenose is 21-26 degrees C : Ancistrus sp. – Common Bristlenose Catfish (Ancistrus sp. 3) — Seriously Fish

I'm not sure if this applies to the variant you have, but it's likely it does. In the wild they inhabit fast flowing rivers and streams, and therefore likely have a preference for slightly cooler and highly oxygenated water. 

As Darrel has suggested, the higher temperature (which results in the water being able to hold less dissolved oxygen), together with the temperature being outside of the suitable range, could be factors unfortunately.


----------



## Trakkajack (8 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> According to Seriously Fish, the preferred temp range for a Common Bristlenose is 21-26 degrees C : Ancistrus sp. – Common Bristlenose Catfish (Ancistrus sp. 3) — Seriously Fish
> 
> I'm not sure if this applies to the variant you have, but it's likely it does. In the wild they inhabit fast flowing rivers and streams, and therefore likely have a preference for slightly cooler and highly oxygenated water.
> 
> As Darrel has suggested, the higher temperature (which results in the water being able to hold less dissolved oxygen), together with the temperature being outside of the suitable range, could be factors unfortunately.


Oh gosh. Poor things! Ok thank you for this information. It isn’t quite what I was told previously but I have learnt a hard lesson ....


----------



## Trakkajack (9 Jun 2021)

Is there anyone around Doncaster area that would be willing and able to help me with my tank? I am willing to pay for expert advice.

I’m worried about cleaning the filter and pipes amongst other things. My other bristlenose has died now too which has threw me - im doing something wrong somewhere.

I’ve looked at YouTube  videos for my filter but it doesn’t show how to remove the pipes from the tank end and they’re full of water. I’ve lost my confidence since I flooded the living room so I’ve not touched it other than clean the prefilter the other day but I held my breath all the way through ....

or can I pay for someone to talk me through it all and look closely at my tank and advise me via zoom or FaceTime maybe?

Sorry if this sounds a strange request but I’m really stuck


----------



## Wookii (9 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Is there anyone around Doncaster area that would be willing and able to help me with my tank? I am willing to pay for expert advice.
> 
> I’m worried about cleaning the filter and pipes amongst other things. My other bristlenose has died now too which has threw me - im doing something wrong somewhere.
> 
> ...



Big deep breath @Trakkajack - you don't need to be paying anyone. The Bristlenose issue, is likely the O2 and temp issues we've mentioned already. That Seriously Fish database site that I linked to previously, is my go to for looking up fish requirements - its a fantastic resource as it also often goes into depth on the fish's natural environment, and social behaviour etc. So just make sure you check that site for any fish you may look to add in the future, and/or post a list of potential acquisitions on here, there are some very knowledgeable fish experts on here.

In terms of your filter, there really isn't anything to worry about. I'm assuming you are still using the Oase 600?

To clean the filter, just turn it off (if you have the thermo version, turn the heater off too). Put down a few towels, and have a clean (as in no old cleaning fluid residues in them) empty bucket or two ready. Slide the locking lever across for the pipe inlet/outlet header, and remove it (might take a bit of wiggling to release the seals). This should have locked off the outlet and inlet pipes. If you really want to clean these (I never do), hold a bucket, and lift the filter inlet and outlet out of the tank and directly into a bucket. As you place the bucket on the floor, most of the water should start to run out of them and into the bucket. You can then disassemble and clean all the bits you want to.

Now slide the locking lever on the pre-filter, and remove as normal. Remove the heater if you have the thermo version of the filter, but check it is cool to the touch - if it's still hot, put it back in and wait a while for it to cool before removing fully.

Now undo the four clips and remove the filter head. You can remove and clean the impeller and impellor chamber if you feel so inclined. Again I rarely do.

Now just lift out each basket from inside the canister and clean it. You can do this by rinsing in a bucket of tank water for loose style filter media. For sponges squeeze them out in the bucket of water. Some folks even rinse them under a tap, on the basis it shouldn't significantly affect the bacterial population - personal choice that one. Personally though, I'm a bit lazy, so I just clean them in the water that's already in the canister. I just lift each basket, and give it a good shake in the water before placing them in a dry empty bucket.

Once you've removed all the baskets, pour the mucky water away, and give the canister a good rinse out. Then just put all the baskets back in, put the head unit back on and clamp it down, put the heater and (cleaned) prefilter back in and lock it off. Reassemble all your inlet and outlet pipework, and push the inlet/outlet header back in place and lock it off. Then its just a matter of priming the filter, turning everything back on, and you should be up and running again.

I personally find priming filters a pain - it never seems to work properly for me - so I always fill the the canister (and the pre-filter container) back up with water (to the original level when the baskets were removed) with a couple of drops of Seachem Prime, before adding the filter baskets back in and putting everything back together. You may still have to use the priming pump on the filter if the pipes are empty. If you haven't cleaned the pipes, and they are still full of water though, filling the canister and prefilter with water before re-assembling, should mean the filter starts back up without needing to use the priming pump. It may still need to purge some air, before it gets up to full speed, but it should do that without any intervention.

Ask any questions, and I'm sure either myself or other Oase users can assist (a lot of folks use them on this forum).


----------



## Trakkajack (9 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> Ask any questions, and I'm sure either myself or other Oase users can assist (a lot of folks use them on this forum).


Thank you for your reply and patience .... I’ve got little white things squirming in my tank today and one of my otocinclus looks like it has something wrong with its anus - then I found a shrimp skeleton and don’t know if that died or shed so I feel like I’m doing something terribly wrong.

yes this site has been fantastic so deep breaths and gin needed!!

I fed my otocinclus some blanched shelled squashed peas and am hoping for the best but the amano eat bloomin everything so don’t know if the poor fish got any peas!!


----------



## Hufsa (9 Jun 2021)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That oto looks like it has dropsy, or organ failure as it really is. It causes a swelling of the body as the fish is unable to moderate the amount of water in its body. It looks a little bit atypical on species with hard outer scales like corys and ottos. This is usually caused by environmental factors outside of the fish, so not like a parasite. I wouldnt be surprised if it turns up dead quite soon  Once they get to this stage it is usually too late to save them.

The shrimp shell is just a molt, a molt will look like an entire shrimp, legs, feelers, everything included but have no meat inside. The meat will turn pinkish white a little while after death so it is easy to tell the difference once you are familiar with it.

The white critter things are a little too blurry to make out a specific species but is also likely perfectly fine, you could google rhabdocoela, copepods or ostracods and see if any match the critters you see. A mature tank will have all manner of critters, but the populations of them may bloom in periods where your tank is getting settled or is experiencing instability.

Im sorry to hear you have had fish deaths. If practically possible, would you be able to do a 50% water change every day for a while? Its better than medicine sometimes, especially in cases where the tank is new and we suspect it might have something to do with that.

Sending good vibes 💓


----------



## Trakkajack (9 Jun 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That oto looks like it has dropsy, or organ failure as it really is. It causes a swelling of the body as the fish is unable to moderate the amount of water in its body. It looks a little bit atypical on species with hard outer scales like corys and ottos. This is usually caused by environmental factors outside of the fish, so not like a parasite. I wouldnt be surprised if it turns up dead quite soon  Once they get to this stage it is usually too late to save them.
> 
> Im sorry to hear you have had fish deaths. If practically possible, would you be able to do a 50% water change every day for a while? Its better than medicine sometimes, especially in cases where the tank is new and we suspect it might have something to do with that.
> 
> Sending good vibes 💓


Yes I can start doing the larger daily water changes again on most days probably.  Thank you.

do dead fish sink or float? I always thought they floated (don’t know why) but my bristlenose sunk and I couldn’t see them. I’m bothered if the Oto dies and I don’t know. Will it cause a spike in the water if it’s left and decays or is eaten by the shrimp?

saw another shrimp shedding today. Thought omg my shrimp are dying now too so it’s good to know they are thriving and growing if nothing else is!
When I do a test the water is always fine so I just don’t know where I’m going wrong.

thank you for your advise and trying to help. It really is appreciated.


----------



## Hufsa (9 Jun 2021)

Most dead fish sink in my experience. They could cause a spike yes, so keep an eye out as much as possible.

Its a difficult position to be in, when the water tests dont show anything but the fish are struggling.
I do think changing your water often is the best bet, it usually is. 

*An exception would be if you had mass deaths immediately following a waterchange, which could indicate that the water company did something to the tap. 
But in most cases the tap is fine, and if we dont know whats wrong in the tank, water changes keeps things running until the problem can sort itself out, or give us more clues to go on


----------



## Trakkajack (11 Jun 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Most dead fish sink in my experience. They could cause a spike yes, so keep an eye out as much as possible.
> 
> Its a difficult position to be in, when the water tests dont show anything but the fish are struggling.
> I do think changing your water often is the best bet, it usually is.
> ...


Did a 50% today. The Otto is still alive and undeterred by the submersible pump. The amano are doing zoomies around the tank since …. Good or bad?!
Saw another shrimp skin in there but can’t reach it so if nothing else I take it the amano are happy!!

if I put cherry shrimp in the tank once I feel it’s stable again would the discus eat them as I think they are very small. The amano I have are humongous….! No idea how big they get?!
By the way how do I clean these pipes? Scary ….!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (11 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> By the way how do I clean these pipes?



One of these:














						Filter tube cleaning Brush 150cm
					

Hobby Spiral Cleaning Brush 150cm - cleaning your filter tubes could not be easier with this product. Also effective when used to clean lily pipes




					www.aquariumgardens.co.uk


----------



## Trakkajack (11 Jun 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> One of these:
> 
> View attachment 170609
> 
> ...


I have a long bottle brush thingy. I meant they are attached to the Oase pump ar one end and the soray bar at the other so if I turn the pump off and pull the tube out of the end that connects to the spray bar then I drain the water from within into a bucket will I be draining my water from the pump and if I put the bottle brush down the pipe will I be pushing the dirty gunk into my filter?


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (12 Jun 2021)

If you are talking about the oase filter:


turn the heater off
Leave the filter running and wait a few minutes to ensure the water flowing over the heater has cooled it down
turn the filter off when you are sure the heater is cool





push the lever to the closed position (marked with the red arrow). It is in the open position in this photo, closed is to the right if I’ve remembered correctly
pull out the cassette for inlet and outlet pipes (marked in the green circle)

The water between your spraybar/inlet and the cassette is now locked off, it can’t escape from the cassette end so don’t worry.

Get a bucket, remove the spraybar/inlet from their suction cups, lift out of the tank and pour the water in the tubing/spraybar/inlet into the bucket, then take your pipes to where you want to clean them (sink or garden etc).

OR...

If you mean your internal pump... not quite sure how you have it set up @Trakkajack but I’m assuming the internal pump is connected to a spay bar...? The photo with Otto just shows an Oase internal pump and a pipe ascending upwards...

If it is just a pump with some tubing attached to a spray bar, pull the suction cups off the spraybar, vertically lift the lot and the water will drain out the pump as you lift. Take the lot out, clean, replace.


----------



## Trakkajack (14 Jun 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> If you are talking about the oase filter:
> 
> 
> turn the heater off
> ...


Thank you! The photo shows an Oase submersible pump which I put in to do my water changes. The Oase filter/heater is underneath in the cabinet. I did not know the thing with the pipes lifted off at the filter so thank you. I also didn’t know about turning the heater off and letting the water cool it for a few minutes. Makes total sense. Thank you!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (14 Jun 2021)

One last thing @Trakkajack ...

If you ever want to pull the prefilter out to clean it you have to close off the lever for the inlet/outlet cassette first then the lever to release the prefilter second





So....



turn the heater off
Leave the filter running and wait a few minutes to ensure the water flowing over the heater has cooled it down
turn the filter off when you are sure the heater is cool
push the lever to the closed position (marked with the red arrow number 1)
push the lever to the closed position (marked with the green arrow number 2).
pull out the prefilter cassette  (marked with the yellow arrow number 3) 


The prefilter cassette comes apart to reveal the sponges inside for cleaning:




To put back together just reverse the order of the procedure.


----------



## Trakkajack (20 Jun 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> One last thing @Trakkajack ...
> 
> If you ever want to pull the prefilter out to clean it you have to close off the lever for the inlet/outlet cassette first then the lever to release the prefilter second
> 
> ...


I cleaned my pre filter. Lots of muck! I don’t think I breathed all the way through it but now I’ve done it once I will feel better and more confident doing it again. Today I cleaned my air sponge, spray bar and the internal bit of the filter. The bit that hangs down at the back of the tank in the water. I tried to use a turkey blaster attached to a nose to syphon off much from the substrate as I puffed up the muck with the turkey baster. I was somewhat successful but pulled up a few plants and was worried about sucking up my amano so not too sure if I was doing it right. Watched a video last night by Aquarium Gardens where they did it. They made it look easy ha ha.


----------



## Trakkajack (20 Jun 2021)

The plants in my tank are getting very leggy but no substance. I’ve not trimmed them as yet as I’m worried I will end up with nothing. I don’t have CO2.  Should I just be brave and chop them all back? Will it encourage new growth? Can I just stick the chopped off bits back into the soil somewhere?
My otocinclus is still alive by the way! I put a few blanched peas in so whether that did the trick or not I have no idea ….


----------



## Kevin Eades (20 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> The plants in my tank are getting very leggy but no substance. I’ve not trimmed them as yet as I’m worried I will end up with nothing. I don’t have CO2.  Should I just be brave and chop them all back? Will it encourage new growth? Can I just stick the chopped off bits back into the soil somewhere?
> My otocinclus is still alive by the way! I put a few blanched peas in so whether that did the trick or not I have no idea ….


Yes trim and replant the tops to get denser growth


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> I cleaned my pre filter. Lots of muck! I don’t think I breathed all the way through it but now I’ve done it once I will feel better and more confident doing it again.



It’s easy once it’s been explained, it is difficult to know what hasn’t been demonstrated. Going forward you’ll find you can do the prefilter quickly to keep gunk out of your main filter.


----------



## Trakkajack (21 Jun 2021)

Yes trim and replant the tops to get denser growth
Thank you. I will give it a go. As I plant I tend to dislodge more than stay in ha ha. I’m sure there’s a knack to it that I haven’t acquired as yet!


----------



## Trakkajack (21 Jun 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s easy once it’s been explained, it is difficult to know what hasn’t been demonstrated. Going forward you’ll find you can do the prefilter quickly to keep gunk out of your main filter.


Yes I’m going to do it again at weekend. This tank and these fish are keeping me awake at night ha ha. I’m sure I will look back on it all and laugh once I stop stressing!!


----------



## Karmicnull (21 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> As I plant I tend to dislodge more than stay in ha ha. I’m sure there’s a knack to it that I haven’t acquired as yet!


Yeah - especially for long straight stems.  I reckon it takes me about 3 goes per stem to get them to stay in. Then I switch the filter back on and within 30 mins a handful are back out and floating around!


----------



## Trakkajack (21 Jun 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> I reckon it takes me about 3 goes per stem to get them to stay in. Then I switch the filter back on and within 30 mins a handful are back out and floating around!


Oh I’m so glad it’s not just me!!  Feel a bit better now about my failures ha ha


----------



## Karmicnull (21 Jun 2021)

Also don't for a second think plants are dumb.  They know what's going on and will work to thwart you.  I started my tank last August in the middle of lockdown.   Last week we had our first visitors inside the house since, um, February last year.  The first people outside of immediate family to see my pride and joy.  Yeah, you guessed it -  the stems saw them coming, wilfully uprooted, and all started dancing around in the spraybar flow.  D'oh!


----------



## Andy Pierce (22 Jun 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Yes trim and replant the tops to get denser growth
> Thank you. I will give it a go. As I plant I tend to dislodge more than stay in ha ha. I’m sure there’s a knack to it that I haven’t acquired as yet!


Here's a link to some pointers with diagrams about how I do it with Ludwigia palustris:  How to trim and replant aquarium plants | Fireplace aquarium
Two main tips I found helped:  1)  get some really high quality pinsettes.  You're going to be doing this regularly with fast growing stem plants and having good tools will make your life so much easier.  2) leave some petioles on at the base of the stem you're going to replant so the stem will have something to anchor it and won't just float back straight out.


----------



## Trakkajack (24 Jun 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> the stems saw them coming, wilfully uprooted, and all started dancing around in the spraybar flow.  D'oh!


Oh I feel your pain.
I cut some plants back today and tried to replant the cut bits. Why oh why do the professionals make it look so easy. I nearly threw them in the bin rather than have them continue to mock me ….. the amano were absolutely fed up of me and came to clear me off.


----------



## Trakkajack (24 Jun 2021)

Andy Pierce said:


> Here's a link to some pointers with diagrams about how I do it with Ludwigia palustris:  How to trim and replant aquarium plants | Fireplace aquarium
> Two main tips I found helped:  1)  get some really high quality pinsettes.  You're going to be doing this regularly with fast growing stem plants and having good tools will make your life so much easier.  2) leave some petioles on at the base of the stem you're going to replant so the stem will have something to anchor it and won't just float back straight out.


That’s great thanks. Much appreciated!

good idea re leaving bits on the bottom. I did by accident do that today with one of my plants and it did work a lot better.


----------



## Trakkajack (11 Jul 2021)

Not posted for a while. Still looking for a larger discus tank so in the meantime my 4 are in my aquascape tank. Still stuck. I know I know it’s my choice but I will get there eventually…… more discus to buy then move to new tank when it’s ready then I can start with my aquascape again. The discus are dirty so and so’s. My otocinclus are all still alive. My amano are thriving, my snails are laying all those blooming eggs. Wait till I catch the ones that are doing it ha ha.  Plants not doing bad considering no CO2. Reds are rubbish I know … once I move the discus I want to clean and move stuff around in this tank. I’ve learnt a lot on what not to do already!!
Water change just done so discus sulking …


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (28 Jul 2021)

Any updates @Trakkajack ?


----------



## Trakkajack (9 Aug 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Any updates @Trakkajack ?


I was supposed to pick up my new tank on 15 August but the guys just pulled out of the sale yesterday. Gutted. Just done a water change and trimmed my plants and it’s back to surfing the selling sites and Facebook market place.

can I ask please. When I was doing the water change I was putting some plants back in that I had trimmed and where I poked my finger into the soil bubbles came up. I was worried these were nitrogen bubbles and dangerous so I stopped but am I supposed to get rid of them or what?
My poor discus will have to stop in their smaller tank a bit longer now it appears…

mess looking forward to moving them out and getting my aquascape redone. Oh well. There’s time yet


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (9 Aug 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> When I was doing the water change I was putting some plants back in that I had trimmed and where I poked my finger into the soil bubbles came up. I was worried these were nitrogen bubbles and dangerous so I stopped but am I supposed to get rid of them or what?



Potentially Co2 respired from the roots. Get large bubbles from the carpeting plants regularly, wouldn’t worry about it @Trakkajack .


----------



## PARAGUAY (9 Aug 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Potentially Co2 respired from the roots. Get large bubbles from the carpeting plants regularly, wouldn’t worry about it @Trakkajack .


----------



## PARAGUAY (9 Aug 2021)

Tom Barr does a plant removal in the aticles tutorials (plantbrain)so as your doing replanting with water change should as Geoffrey says should be fine


----------



## not called Bob (12 Aug 2021)

its unlikely in a maintained tank you would have enough Hydrogen sulphide or methane to worry about, it could be a spot of carbon dioxide, but releasing the odd bit is not a big concern


----------



## Trakkajack (12 Aug 2021)

not called Bob said:


> it could be a spot of carbon dioxide, but releasing the odd bit is not a big concern


Thank you. I do worry about them. It is super relaxing to watch them but stressful too ha ha. Maybe once I know what I’m doing more I will chill a bit!


----------



## Trakkajack (15 Aug 2021)

So I finally picked up a 5ft second hand tank today from Facebook marketplace. A few questions if I may just to make sure ….

do I clean it out using dilute white vinegar?
I have filled the  filter photo attached with water from my fish tank once I got it home. The guy emptied the water from it whilst I was there. How long can the filter sit with my fish tank water in it not hooked up whilst I try and clean the tank and accessories (they’re a bit grim)
It’s for my discus so won’t be heavily planted. Maybe just sand on the bottom when it’s up and running. Presume I then do an old fashioned fishless cycle?

any recommendations for heater or another filter?

Any other comments would be appreciated


----------



## John q (15 Aug 2021)

Personally I'd give the tank a clean with a dilute bleach spray and then give it a good rinse, then rinse rave, rinse repeat. With the old filter I'd do the same and set the tank up from scratch.

Heater wise... 2 x 200w.


----------



## Karmicnull (15 Aug 2021)

Great find!  You don't need to dilute the vinegar; it will clean up the tank brilliantly.  I would have thought if the filter is open to air it would last a day or so. Alternatively put all the filter media into a bucket full of water with an airstone and you're sorted indefinitely.


----------



## Trakkajack (15 Aug 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> Alternatively put all the filter media into a bucket full of water with an airstone and you're sorted indefinitely.


Oh thank you. I didn’t know that! Do I use tank water?
Ok near vinegar then lots of washing out presumably?
Thank you


----------



## Trakkajack (15 Aug 2021)

John q said:


> Heater wise... 2 x 200w.


Thank you. I have no idea re filters as I have an oase thermo so have never had to think about one!

many make better or more reliable?


----------



## Karmicnull (15 Aug 2021)

Trakkajack said:


> Oh thank you. I didn’t know that! Do I use tank water?


Yes tank water ideally or dechlorinated tap water.  If the canister is full of mulm and dirty water use that.  Essentially the bacteria in the filter media will adapt to the level of nutrients in the water - if you "feed" it with your old tank water when you do WCs that will be plenty - when you transfer it back into the filter canister attached to your new tank it probably won't really notice the difference until you start adding fish!



Trakkajack said:


> Ok near vinegar then lots of washing out presumably?
> Thank you


Yep. I just did a WC today and washed my sliding glass lid, which had loads of scale due to hard water.  Gave it a good old rub with kitchen paper soaked in vinegar to get rid of the scale, and then j-cloth and washing-up liquid.  Then a lot of rinsing.  The advantage of @John q's suggestion is that bleaching everything and starting from scratch means you've sterilized, and won't run the risk of any infections persisting from the tank's previous inhabitants.
Cheers,
Simon


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## Trakkajack (24 Aug 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> Great find!  You don't need to dilute the vinegar; it will clean up the tank brilliantly.  I would have thought if the filter is open to air it would last a day or so. Alternatively put all the filter media into a bucket full of water with an airstone and you're sorted indefinitely.


I did that and also bought a fluval fx6 plus 2 300w heaters

I’m still cleaning the tank. No rush. It’s filthy so want to get it right.  

I got black sand for this tank (fancied a change) not got any wood or stones yet - suggestions always appreciated!


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## Trakkajack (17 Oct 2021)

So I’ve not been on for a while. Life gets in the way of my new hobby yet again grrr.

But I actually got a day off yesterday and made some good progress with my new 5ft tank for my discus to transfer to eventually.

Progress so far …. Heaters and wave maker thingy going in today. This was actually for my small tank with a larger one for the big tank but it nearly blew my poor fish and plants out of the tank so was very hastily removed!  Hope it’s ok for the big tank. Apparently they move the poop along to the filter so no dead areas. Although you all know that. It’s just me who’s finding this stuff out.

Once the discus are moved across I can then redo and rescape my original Oase tank. It’s a tad unkempt but I’m just waiting now until the new large tank is ready. No point me stressing. I’ve managed to keep up with my water changes over the past couple of months but that’s about it!

I’ve got two of these heaters to go into the new tank.

Any suggestions greatly received…


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## hypnogogia (17 Oct 2021)

Those Sicce pumps are good.  Little and good flow.


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## Trakkajack (17 Oct 2021)

hypnogogia said:


> Those Sicce pumps are good.  Little and good flow.


I have ended up putting a larger one in. Might put the little one in my smaller tank. I don’t think I will use it constantly but it seems to be good for moving poop towards the filter?!


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## Trakkajack (23 Dec 2021)

Finally my new tank for the discus is cycled!  I will move them across in the new year. Might get some clean up crew in there in the meantime. That means that I can then eventually Rescape my initial Oase tank and get my community fish in there. So excited. Thought I would not get to this point a few times!


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## Trakkajack (23 Dec 2021)

Amano shrimp and apple snails added to the new tank - and two apple snails added to my original aquascape tank. Just cause!


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