# German blue ram - male or female?



## billiemackers (24 Dec 2016)

Hello,

I've recently added a German blue ram to my aquarium, I only bought one initially as I wasn't of the sex - any ideas? I'm after a pair eventually..

Only been in the aquarium a few days. It seems fine - active, bright and eating well!




 
Initially I thought male, but now I'm not so sure. Any help much appreciated, thanks!


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## Planted Bows (24 Dec 2016)

I'd say thats a male. Reason is the third point on the top fin is the highest. Usually that's the giveaway however not certain. The only thing I'd say I'm unsure about is the bottom back fin is rather rounder which usually means female 

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## Henry (25 Dec 2016)

Looks like an immature male to me. Get some frozen krill inside it for a couple of weeks and you should have a definite answer soon enough.


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## billiemackers (25 Dec 2016)

Ok thanks both, will be sure to keep him/her well fed!


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## dw1305 (28 Dec 2016)

Hi all,
Look at the black humeral blotch, if the blue spangles are around the spot it is a male, if they go across the blotch it is a female. This isn't a very good monitor, but male would be my guess.

Have a look at Mike Wise's comment <"_Apistogramma_ Forum:Ram sexing">, he knows more about soft water dwarf cichlids than pretty much anybody else.

cheers Darrel


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## Planted Bows (28 Dec 2016)

I never knew that! Thats very handy to know 

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## dw1305 (28 Dec 2016)

Hi all, 





Planted Bows said:


> I never knew that! Thats very handy to know


Apistogramma forums isn't a very busy forum, but it has some <"fantastic posters"> on it.

cheers Darrel


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## billiemackers (31 Dec 2016)

Thanks again,

After reading further I'm not so sure it's a male after all. I added what I think is a definite female to the tank yesterday. Initially they were getting along fine, fish #1 displaying regularly but no aggression. Today the pictured fish is chasing around the new addition like no tomorrow, so have separated them. I have read that aggression between females is possible if no males are about. I think if the original fish were a male there would be no reflective scales within the black spot, also the head isn't particularly rounded (yet anyway). 

I'm definitely not certain, but I'm leaning towards female. Here is a recent pic (sorry about the size of the first one, uploaded on my phone)



 

P.S. didn't do anything with the image in post processing, the fish is very bright at the moment!

Any other opinions welcome


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## alto (31 Dec 2016)

Looks like a happy boy to me  
This photo clearly shows the blue spangles around the humeral spot with none inside - this is much easier to see when fish are displaying brightly as this fish is

Male & female cichlids do not automatically get along, anymore than same sex cichlids automatically don't get along 
Recommended process is to begin with at least 6 individuals & allow them their practise trysts - it's not unusual for "pairs" to form, break, then reform - sometimes with the same partner, sometimes with new "partners" each time.

Do you have a picture of the tank? also tank dimensions?


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## billiemackers (1 Jan 2017)

alto said:


> Looks like a happy boy to me
> This photo clearly shows the blue spangles around the humeral spot with none inside - this is much easier to see when fish are displaying brightly as this fish is



Cheers very much alto, I wasn't sure if the spangles around the spot at the bottom were encroaching enough to be a female. They're very interesting fish and have really captured my interest, sounds like the have quite complex social systems too.

Unfortunately, I discovered that said fish had jumped out of his tank last night  I'm livid! I couldn't understand at first as one of the things that drew me to GBR's was that they are not known as jumpers. I know theoretically they are more than capable of jumping, but haven't read too many reports of it happening. I think I should have been more careful either way. I just got to the fish too late, it was still wet but obviously dead. I hastily checked for ammonia spike and other things (temp/nitrites etc) but everything was as it should be and I had done a 50% WC the day before. 

Then I thought, perhaps it was some particularly loud fireworks. Sounds crazy I know, but I live in a city centre flat and there were 2 or 3 seriously loud booms around midnight that shook the flat. I found the fish at around 00:30. May not be the case, but I could imagine if the fish was startled near the surface it's knee-jerk reaction would be to bolt, in any direction. The only thing in the tank was the GBR, 1 guppy and 3 amano shrimp - none of which he bothered with at all.



alto said:


> Do you have a picture of the tank? also tank dimensions?



For what it's worth, here you go - tank is around 30ish litres



 



 

Thanks a lot for your help - will look into fitting a lid. I think ultimately a bigger aquarium would be a good idea, maybe I'll stop before I do anything else with GBRs and be patient until I get something a bit bigger

booo!


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## alto (1 Jan 2017)

Looks like a 30cm cube tank?
if so, keeping a single ram would likely be finebut I'd not add more (unless temporary, eg I just finishing quarantine on 5 juvenile rams - I'd quickly set up a 30cm cube with some rock & wood & (cycled) filter - they were fine in there for the couple of weeks, but I could also see that one ram was tending to dominate, 3 were fine, the 5th was a bit overwhelmed ... moved them to their new home & predictably they clung together, only moving as a shoal    but that will change as they settle in)

Usually a shoal of mid-upper level dwelling tetras will inspire confidence in rams - you're right I've never had any (ram) jumpers - the blasts may have done it, or perhaps just the light flashes - sorry for your loss 

Tank décor looks good, but again not for more than a single ram


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## billiemackers (1 Jan 2017)

alto said:


> moved them to their new home & predictably they clung together, only moving as a shoal



Cheers, this made me laugh - they're interesting little fish. Not so cocky when things change heh! 

The tank is approx 30cm cubed yeah, I want to upgrade to something a little bigger with a big integrated filter soon enough, for now I will grow up the little female GBR that is no longer being chased around... Maybe she told him to jump 

Ah well, still pretty annoyed but you live and learn. Will definitely take your suggestions on board, thanks a lot alto!


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