# Why????



## Jose (24 Feb 2015)

Why do my red cherries keep dying?

I keep red cherries in a 12 l nano tank. The tank is a high tech EI tank.

Today Ive had two cherries die on me after two weeks in the tank. I really dont know what the reason could be. Tank is mature and I perform 50% wcs every week.

I was wondering if it could be the copper from my pipes. If this were the case then I would expect more deaths after a water change right? Well they died 6 days after I did the wc, so this might not be the cause.

Its not co2 either because I I have very good surface ripple and my ph doesnt change even 0.5 ph unit.

Could they not have enough food? I dont really feed the shrimp. I think they could survive of the food that falls uneaten and also from algae which I have although not a lot. Could this be it?

Another thing is that I keep them in very very hard water with kh of 16-18.

The only thing I did the day before they died was add some of my micro nutrients solution. If the solution is quite old could copper be getting into solution too fast as to kill the shrimp?

Any more ideas welcomed please help.

Thanks everyone.


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## nduli (24 Feb 2015)

Jose

Think you may have called some of the reasons. Never had shrimp in water that hard but sure someone on here will have more experience than me in that department. Do you have a tds figure? I would try adding some food, blanched nettles, algae wafers or any sinking food. Do you really need the 50% water changes, try changing a slightly smaller volume of water for a few weeks and see if that helps. Water changes often bring on moults and if water conditions aren't great then they die trying to moult. Calcium is normally missing to cause the issues. Also found I lost a lot of shrimp during the winter period one year, hundreds in fact, never got to the bottom of the issue other than the belief locally that during winter they shift water provision from one reservoir to another and there was alof of run off from fields in the winter reservoir and could have been adding something the shrimp didn't like......personally doubt it's a copper related issue unless you have a very old house and very old pipe work. Just a daft question but no one sprays aerosols near the tank? Once had a cleaner (long story) who I had to physically stop spraying air freshener and cleaning the outside of the tank glass tanks as they were exceptionally liberal with the air freshner, glass cleaner and the polish on near by woodwork, no idea how much stuff ended up in the tank but reading up I've heard of less cleaning out entire tanks.....just a thought


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## Jose (25 Feb 2015)

Thanks a lot for the contribution nduli. 
- I havent got a tds meter. Maybe Ill get a cheap one but for sure TDS will be sky high due to ei and hard water.
-I think Ill try buying some of those foods for shrimp and give it to them but i think this isnt the problem because two (out of five) died in the same day.
-I do live in an old house but what I dont get is that they died 6 days after a water change, so posibly not something in the water, or at least not something thats killing them instantaneously.
-The aerosol thing I asked my girlfriend and she said she hadnt. Shes quite conscious about my tank so I dont think it was that.


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## Lindy (25 Feb 2015)

I think problems with this tank is hard water and dosing ei. Try cutting it with ro. Best get a tds meter too. Careful with feeding as in such a small tank it will be easy to pollute.


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## Jose (25 Feb 2015)

But most experts say neither ei nor hard water should be the cause of shrimp deaths. I really dont know what to believe.


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## nduli (25 Feb 2015)

Jose, 

Apols if you have already read this but this maybe worth a read if not.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/a-guide-to-crystal-red-shrimp.19724/

Whilst it's crs specific the principles are the same.


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## Jose (25 Feb 2015)

But i believe red cherries can be kept in hard water. The question is, what about hard water+ei?
Ill have a read nduli. Thanks for the link.
I honstly dont think there are many people keeping cherries in these conditions.


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## Lindy (26 Feb 2015)

Jose said:


> But i believe red cherries can be kept in hard water


Yes but there is hard water and then there is liquid concrete! If your water is already very hard and then you add ei you are making your very hard water even harder.

Water that is TOO hard will cause moulting issues.


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## Lindy (26 Feb 2015)

Just checked on the forum sponsers freshwatershrimp website and recommend tds between 100 and 500. You don't know your tds so can't be sure it isn't much harder than this.


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Feb 2015)

Cambridge water is super hard and kept cherries in high tech EI so would look elsewhere first...
Sporadic shrimp deaths is usually bacterial, worth adding alder cones and catappa leaves to see if it helps... Other thoughts would be water pollution from over feeding other inhabitants. Very easily done in such a small tank.


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## Lindy (28 Feb 2015)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Sporadic shrimp deaths is usually bacterial


They aren't sporadic though. He's only had them in the tank 2 weeks and 2 died. That is why was thinking moulting issues.


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## MirandaB (28 Feb 2015)

I keep cherry shrimp in much harder water than that and up to a tds of 670 with no problems at all and dosing EI so as Iain said you need to look elsewhere for the problem.
How did you acclimatise the shrimp when you added them to the tank?


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Feb 2015)

ldcgroomer said:


> They aren't sporadic though. He's only had them in the tank 2 weeks and 2 died. That is why was thinking moulting issues.


Ah missed that, almost certainly water parameters then.... Ammonia,Nitrite, temp, pollution...
Was the tank cycled? 



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## Vic (28 Feb 2015)

I'd say if the add you put in the water contains cupper that would be definitely a good reason for them to die. Also, the tank is small and the water should be changed offer to avoid nitrates concentration. I'd personally buy bottled water as your tank is only 12l a bottle of 5 litres could last you 5 partial water changes,  despite the hardness of the water(very hard)there could be also other elements in the tap water that could come and go and could eventually kill your shrimps.

Cheers
Vic


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