# Holes in leaves



## noodlesuk (21 Jul 2020)

Hi

I have a relatively new tank  3 months old, only a small 20L. I have Tropoca aquarium soil under gravel. Small internal filter. LED light is on for around 8hrs a day. Plants have been flourishing, but I have recently  noticed small holes in the older leaves of the Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B'  &
Bacopa caroliniana. I do have shrimp in the tank and some unwanted bladder snails. Bit I dont think they are the culprits. Have read it could be potassium deficiency? I haven't added any fertiliser as the tank seemed ok and am worried about algae outbreaks. Bad previous experience with hair algae!

Any help appreciated!


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## Shuster (22 Jul 2020)

Hi mate,

It really seems like potassium deficiency... 


The yellowish color around the holes is a good example. 

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk


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## rebel (22 Jul 2020)

Just add K and watch it. I reckon it will improve.


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## noodlesuk (22 Jul 2020)

Thanks all will try adding supplements.


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## ceg4048 (23 Jul 2020)

noodlesuk said:


> Hi
> 
> I have a relatively new tank  3 months old, only a small 20L. I have Tropoca aquarium soil under gravel. Small internal filter. LED light is on for around 8hrs a day. Plants have been flourishing, but I have recently  noticed small holes in the older leaves of the Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B'  &
> Bacopa caroliniana. I do have shrimp in the tank and some unwanted bladder snails. Bit I dont think they are the culprits. Have read it could be potassium deficiency? I haven't added any fertiliser as the tank seemed ok and am worried about algae outbreaks. Bad previous experience with hair algae!
> ...


Hello,
        Holes in leaves or any form of translucency is a classic symptom of poor CO2. Potassium will never fix this problem.

Cheers,


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## rebel (23 Jul 2020)

It would so easy to test what @ceg4048 is saying.

For K: Just add some for 4 weeks without changing anything else.
For CO2:Just reduce light by 25% and observe for 4 weeks. You can ofcourse add CO2 but reducing light is easier.


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## noodlesuk (23 Jul 2020)

Ah, ok sounds like it could also be C02. A couple of things to try.

Are the liquid C02 supplements any good?  In the meantime, I will however try reducing the lighting. Then investigate potassium.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Witcher (23 Jul 2020)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> Holes in leaves or any form of translucency is a classic symptom of poor CO2. Potassium will never fix this problem.
> 
> Cheers,



Hmmm...

this is my bacopa caroliniana kept in the tank with no CO2 but fertilized regularly:





this is the off cut from exactly the same plant kept in small tank with no CO2 like the above and absolutely no ferts for at least 3 months - only small water changes using exhausted water coming from the above tank:


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## Zeus. (23 Jul 2020)

noodlesuk said:


> I haven't added any fertiliser as the tank seemed ok and am worried about algae



Plant like nutrients in parts per million and algae can cope with nutrients in parts per billion, so not using fertilizer  your just giving the algae the advantage.

When was the last time you cleaned your filer ? if it was a long time ago flow will be much reduced and CO2 will be reduced also

Water Change regime ?



Witcher said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> this is my bacopa caroliniana kept in the tank with no CO2 but fertilized regularly:
> 
> ...



IMO

1. No CO2 is injected - so same
2. Different tank - so water turnover/surface agitation *will* not be the same so supply of CO2 will be different (FLow is king)
3. No ferts - except what was left from old water from other tank
4. Old water which will have a higher level of DOCs (Dissolved Organic Compounds) - so more chance of algae
5. Top pic is off top part plants and lower pic is off lower part of stems, top off plants get better flow/CO2 however lower part is more likely to  related to poor flow (low CO2) as older part of plant and less likely to be nutrient deficient  

In a CO2 injected tank the issues are more likely to be CO2 related. Conversely in a non injected tank much less likely to be CO2 related, but doesn't mean it isn't CO2

Too many variables to say 100% what it is


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## noodlesuk (23 Jul 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Plant like nutrients in parts per million and algae can cope with nutrients in parts per billion, so not using fertilizer  your just giving the algae the advantage.
> 
> When was the last time you cleaned your filer ? if it was a long time ago flow will be much reduced and CO2 will be reduced also
> 
> Water Change regime ?



Thats good to know about the fertiliser, will start that as a regime.

I do 25% weekly water change and filter clean, in tank water, every month.

Should I be doing >25% seems some aquascapers do 30% or more.

I will check flow and clean the filter.


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## Siege (23 Jul 2020)

20L tank I’d be doing as much as you can, perhaps 70% min. Then fill and do it again.

try it for a few weeks, I think you’ll see a massive change.

remove as much waste as you can.

ideally do it before the lights come on as the new water will contain lots of co2.


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## ceg4048 (24 Jul 2020)

noodlesuk said:


> Ah, ok sounds like it could also be C02. A couple of things to try.
> 
> Are the liquid C02 supplements any good?


Yes - for some plants such as stems and carpet plants. Shrimp react poorly to this substance though, so best to be careful. This is an expensive fix if your tank is a CO2 injected tank. It's a better solution to reduce the CO2 demand by reducing the light intensity as mentioned above, and by improving flow/distribution.

Cheers.


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## ceg4048 (24 Jul 2020)

Witcher said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> this is my bacopa caroliniana kept in the tank with no CO2 but fertilized regularly:
> 
> ...


Hi,
     As Zeus mentions, It's very difficult to compare two different tanks. Often, we assume we have control of the environment but more often than not, this is an illusion. Just a degree or two difference in the water can result in differences in CO2 content. Differences in the amount of plant mass (and the types of plants) makes a difference as the plants are competing for the gas.

The important thing to keep in mind is that Carbon builds plant structure, so any failure of structure can only mean a failure in Carbon.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that your first photo shows the bacopa penetrating the surface, but of course this means the plant has access to atmospheric CO2 so I would not expect to see symptoms of a severe CO2 shortfall, but even so, the gas concentration is highest near the surface, so if the second tank has the clipping lower down this would be disadvantageous. Without a CO2 meter it's mostly speculation as to the status of CO2 concentration in any tank.

Another factor which folks gloss over is the dichotomy that plants grown in a higher CO2 environment are actually more susceptible to minor CO2 shortfall, whereas plants grown in a non CO2 supplemented environment are more robust  and are less susceptible to CO2 shortfalls. So we are more likely to observe CO2 related faults in a CO2 supplemented tank, as counter intuitive as this may seem...

Cheers,


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## noodlesuk (7 Aug 2020)

Just an update.  I have been adding Tropica Premium fertiliser, plus doing a 50% weekly water change. Overall the health of the plant leaves has improved.  I'm getting some really nice growth from my Bacopa caroliniana, which wasnt doing much at all before. 

There are still some holes in the older leaves on all plants, so going to also try reducing the light levels in the tank, to see if it's a CO2 deficiency. 

Thanks again for the help.


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