# LED lighting



## matador1982 (10 Dec 2011)

Just seen an interesting article on TGM website which may interest a few.

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... -led-light

I'm considering one for my 40cm cube. Although i'm quite aware TGM are a very reputable reference for this light but have any UKAPS members used this light before?


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## danfinister (11 Dec 2011)

saw the same article myself today, was thinking about one a these over a 45cm cube...... may be interesting to pay a visit to them over the xmas break


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## matador1982 (11 Dec 2011)

danfinister said:
			
		

> saw the same article myself today, was thinking about one a these over a 45cm cube...... may be interesting to pay a visit to them over the xmas break



For the price it is the picture of the unit make it appear rather plasticky I'd certainly want to see this unit in person before buying it.


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## Westyggx (15 Dec 2011)

Saw this whilst browsing Aqaurist Classifed.

http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/p ... 238197.php


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## ghostsword (15 Dec 2011)

Looks very good, and cheap prices. 


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## sanj (16 Dec 2011)

I am a little uncertain about the look of the unit, but I have not seen it in the flesh either. I would be nice  to see it in action over a tank.


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## Wolfenrook (2 Feb 2012)

Sorry for the slight necro, but as there are no other threads about these I wanted to chip in.

I have 2 Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spots over my new tank, and I really rate them.  Tank is 70cm x 60cm x 66cm.

The only plastic on them is the lens and the clamping bracket.  The lamp body is one big metal heatsink painted black.  The clamp isn't perfect, but I am reliably informed that Arcadia are working on redesigning this.  I am also reliably informed that the 2nd gen units will support dimming, and that they will be bringing out some form of computer/controller for them eventually also.  My informant been a product manager with Arcadia. 

I didn't use the clamps though, the wooden surround on the top of my tank is too thick.

As you can pick these up for about £180 each if you shop arround, if you are looking to get LED lighting you wont regret these ones.

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (6 Feb 2012)

I don't understand TGM's scepticism of LEDs when they stock all the ADA snake oil :/


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## Wolfenrook (6 Feb 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> I don't understand TGM's scepticism of LEDs when they stock all the ADA snake oil :/



Having tried a TMC 1000ND in the past, I can.  They USED to have pretty poor depth penetration, and the early units were really yellow looking light wise.  Given the shallow tanks they test on though, I'm surprised they couldn't make them work.

The white EcoAqua though still gives off a brighter looking light even thatn the newer 1000NDs.

Ade


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## Radik (6 Feb 2012)

I do not think that Arcadia LED they stock now is much better than TMC ND1000 except different color rendition. In fact could have a bit worst spread of light as all LED are concentrated in one spot while TMC has them better positioned. 

I am also surprised they could not grow HC cuba one of easiest plant with TMC LED.

Arcadia has XPG 6500-8000 Kelvin TMC has XPE LED 6000-6500 Kelvin  so that's why color difference but no PAR difference at same distance per LED and if you have DIY skills you can turn your Arcadia 30W in to 45-50W with custom PSU and some cooling FAN as XPG can go higher than they are using them now


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## Wolfenrook (6 Feb 2012)

Actually Radk, there IS a PAR difference, especially noticeable at depth.

As to spread, there's quite a big trade off.  The TMC 1000ND could easily light a 60cm square, but had real problems with deep tanks.  The Arcadia gets around this by more tightly clustering the diodes giving a narrower beam of light giving higher PAR at depth, but sacrificing spread to about 40cm square.

This isn't just number crunching on paper, or guess work.  I actually own a 1000ND and 2 EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights.

You're also mistaken on colour temps, for the Arcadia at least.  The white has 12 6,500k LEDs.  You're confusing it with the marine white which does indeed also contain 8,000k diodes.  So both manufacturers are claiming the same colour temps, and as I said the NEW 1000ND is a lot whiter than the old one (I've had both, having had my 1st unit replaced under warranty).

On an 18" deep or shallower tank, a TMC 1000ND will do a good job for sure, giving much better spread as well, meaning you can use less units.  Once you hit the 2 feet mark though it's my experiene that the 1000ND quickly loses efficacy, whilst the EcoAqua seems to just be able to punch deeper.  But then it is my understanding that Cree XP=G diodes are more powerful than XP-E LEDs anyway....  Good luck though finding any actual information about PAR at depth for the 1000ND.

This said, I am sure that in time TMC will improve the 1000ND further.

Oh, and sorry but a plastic brick is just not as attractive.  The 1000ND is REALLY ugly.

I do however agree that it's hard to undertand why TGM wouldn't stock them.  Given that their tests aren't even in deep aquariums.  Plus my understanding is that a good nutritious substrate and column dosing are far more important for HC Cuba than lighting is...

I am NOT an Arcadia fan boy, in fact I have ripped into them many times in the past over the high price of their products.  However as things stand I prefer the 30watt spot.

Ade


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## George Farmer (6 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> Oh, and sorry but a plastic brick is just not as attractive.  The 1000ND is REALLY ugly.


Hi Ade,

I think it's a matter of personal taste.  

*Arcadia Eco-aqua LED 30w*





*TMC AquaRay 1000ND LED 30w*





I prefer the aesthetics of my 1000ND units over the vast majority of light units on the market.  I really like the almost industrial/minimalist look; I even prefer it over something like the ADA Solar units.  I think a lot depends on how they fit in with your set up as a whole and your living space.  I don't think the Arcadia units would suit my situation so well; at least not to my taste.


60cm shallow optiwhite - Day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Another aspect I prefer to the TMC units are the power controllers and their ability to ramp up and ramp down the intensity using 1% increments to whatever setting you like, and for however long you like.  Arcadia have yet to release any form of power controller, but understand they're coming soon.


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## NA-Fan (6 Feb 2012)

*Arcadia Eco-aqua LED 30w*




Looks like a black shower head to me.


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## Wolfenrook (6 Feb 2012)

Indeed George, I've been talking to one of their product managers and he assured me that the 2nd gen will be dimmable, and that they will be releasing controllers.  They've also gone back to the drawing board with the brackets.

I didn't actually use the bracket, as that part IS ugly, and really not very solid.  Besides which, the clamp wasn't wide enough to fit on the wooden top.   






I rate the TMC 1000ND fairly highly as well myself, I'm running mine over a dart frog viv where I can't see the actual unit:-






As you say, looks are entirely subjective, but I prefer the black metal heatsink look of the EcoAqua.  I did however suggest to Arcadia that they bring it out in brushed metal as well, as not everybody likes black.

For me I'd say it's horses for coarses.  Shallower tanks you get better bang for buck with the 1000ND.  Deeper tanks though I feel benefit from the tighter beam of the EcoAqua.

I still have to really agree that I don't understand why TGM had such a problem with LED lighting before either.  Plenty of people using them and getting really good growth in the same tanks as they are testing over.  The ONLY thing I can think of is they relied too much on readings from a PAR meter.

Oh and yeah, that's an MMS rail my Arcadias are mounted on.   

Ade


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## Radik (6 Feb 2012)

Of course there is PAR difference but I rather have nice spread than huge PAR at one spot and then all around blind sposts which Arcadia most likely deliver. Arcadia will deliver good PAR only with 60-90degree lens or what they supply anyway and then it is only good for some small cubes marine tanks. Their standard XPG are 125 degree spread and you will not get huger PAR extra even when you concentrate 12 LED at one spot. TMC has LED's with 115 Degree spread to compensate. There should be only slight difference. Also XPG has better efficiency so there it can gain extra PAR. 

Any of these LED's are rip off anyway for big size tank you need something custom or your wallet will bleed given value of those individual LED in total is less than 30GBP and for manufacturer even less than that.


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## Wolfenrook (6 Feb 2012)

The White and Freshwater come with 120 degree lenses, you've added 5 degrees. 

The sweet spot with them is actually fairly wide, and 54 PAR at 55cm depth in this sweet spot isn't to be sneered at, 45 PAR slightly outside this dropping off 22 PAR at the edges.  Not that bad at all really.  That's with the 120 degree lens as well, NOT the 60 degree or 40 degree ones.  Swapping the lens to say a 60 degree actually ramps the PAR up to 190 at 55cm in the 'sweet spot' and 79 just oustide this at the cost of the outer realms dropping off to 17 PAR.  Given that it's only 22 PAR with the 120 degree lens, seems to me swapping them to 60 degree lenses isn't that big a sacrifice for a lot of gain.

There's a thing, the fact you can change the lenses on the Arcadia units.  You can't do this with the TMC.

As to them only been any use over nanos and marine tanks, uhm I have them over a 66cm deep, 62 gallon freshwater aquarium, using the standard 120 degree lenses.  The left hand lamp is a Freshwater, the right hand lamp a White.

LEDs like any 'new' tech has haters, and those who embrace the tech early on.  I've embraced it.  I've always used T5HO in the past, but looks wise the light just doesn't come close, to my eyes anyway.

Ade

PS.  Can I ask a favour?  If you are going to argue about PAR, please do provide some figures rather than just "opinion".  Thanks muchly.


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## Radik (6 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook I did not add any 5 degree that is XPG specification by default unless you can consider basic arcadia cover as lens.

I can not do you a favor as I do not have Arcadia so can't give proper PAR by measuring them but I made few custom LED lights with XPG LED and own TMC Grobeam with XPE as well so I am quite eligible for opinion I think.
Reading them from Arcadia leaflet would not make me look smarter. But I can compare on paper considering each LED characteristics. 

I still think using any 60 or 40 degree lens will be useless for any tropical tank as PAR is too huge at one tight spot. Only good for marine where you need 300-500PAR. If you want to grow at this intensity then good luck keeping algae off. So we are back at basic spread 115 and 125 degree 

One think I do not like on LED is that when just single led burns out you have to send back whole unit for repair as it happened to me week ago. They should try to make them interchangeable for this very reason. My TMC was only year old .


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## Morgan Freeman (6 Feb 2012)

I don't mind the look of either light, both can look good depending on the type of aquarium used.

I'd love to get hold of some good LEDS like these but the price is too restrictive for me.


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## Antipofish (6 Feb 2012)

Personally I like the TMC units.  George, I really like the look you have with your pair of tiles hanging over the tank.  Nicely suspended too.  I have seen the Arcadia ones, and for the money they just do not look worth it.  The other thing, and this is purely personal, is that I thing a circular light over a rectangular aquarium looks odd.  That will appeal to others of course.  I can verify that the intensity of the Arcadia unit is fantastic though, having seen one set up at MA Hickstead less than a week ago.  That is not to say the TMC ones are less than sufficient, as I am sure mr F would not use them if they were at all substandard


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## Wolfenrook (7 Feb 2012)

Radik, I don't "consider" the "basic Arcadia cover as a lens", it IS a lens, just like the extra lenses TMC install over the LEDs in their fittings. But unlike the TMC units, you can change it. Yes you HAVE added 5 degrees on, as you clearly haven't even read the specifications for the actual unit and are going PURELY by the specs for the diodes. The "basic cover" as you call it is a 120 degree lens, it does what it says on the tin. It can be removed by undoing the small screws and replaced with one of the other optional lenses, to change it to either 60 degrees, or 40 degrees. If you have a particularly deep aquarium for example, you could simply swap to a 60 degree lens and use more units. Look do me a favour, just go look on the Arcadia site, they have actually PUBLISHED PAR figures etc for these. I'm not making them up, or taking dodgy reading myself. I am willing to bet George can access more figures as well from the tests at PFK.

As to the looks of the unit, I just have a personal preference for the metal construction of the Arcadia lamp, over the cheap plastic of the TMC. The shape isn't an issue, as fish aren't rectangular or square, nor are plants.  Plus I like round lights anyway. 

Just to be clear here, I was discussing the Arcadia units as these are what the original post was asking about. If it had been asking about TMCs I would have posted info about my experience with these. I posted because I saw nobody else coming forward who was using Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights over a planted tank.

Yes I get a little narked when some folks start arguing without posting ANY actual number etc to back up their argument. I got the same reaction back when I was an early uptaker of the TMC 1000ND. It just seems that some folks get seriously set in their ways about equipment and argue for the sake of it. I don't mind discussion over the design, it's just personal taste, but I do mind argument based on assumptions regarding actual performance. Especially if it's from somebody who hasn't actually TRIED both units in the real world. I know from experience than in a 72cm aquarium plants below the half way mark struggled to get enough light from my 1000ND, I even used flow pumps to rule out dead spots been the cause. You could even see it visually, with the bottom part of the tank looking shadowy and shaded. As to growing carpet plants in there, even echinodorus tenellus struggled. I can't say from experience that the Arcadia will perform better (even when I can, the fact I am using 2 will cast doubts), but the figures certainly suggest that it will.

Also, do keep in mind that these are still VERY new. The TMC 1000ND was plagued with problems early on, not least dodgy psus and faulty sealing gaskets. Heck mine let water in, I'm on my second PSU within 2 years, my 2nd tile in 2 years as the 1st one not only let water in bud an LED blew, and my 2nd controller as the 1st one packed up again within 2 years. On the plus side, TMC customer service was excellent, and they had a new tile and controller out to me within days of my sending them my old ones. The bracket on the Arcadia is poor, I've told this to an Arcadia product manager and was told they were working on redoing the bracket. The design is love or hate, same as the TMC. The current units don't dim, V2 will, etc. TMC 1000NDs are much better now than they were, I think we can expect the same from the Arcadia units.

There's no embed I can see for vids on here, but you folks might enjoy these vids. First one is from when I was running my 1000ND over my 72cm deep tank:-




Second one is of my new tank with the 2 Arcadias over it. I modified the filter outlet quite a bit since, but I'm considering taking it back to this. The extra shimmer was really nice, would just mean turning the CO2 up more:-




If you can't say anything else for Arcadia, at least they have been open and public with the figures for PAR etc. I still struggle to find similar figures from TMC.

Ade


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## George Farmer (7 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> I am willing to bet George can access more figures as well from the tests at PFK.


I've tested the PAR on the 1000NDs myself and they're not as bright as the Arcadia, going by results from your good self.  The big lighting review carried out by Levi Major for PFK in 2010 did not include the 1000ND units and was marine bias. 

I do prefer the spread on the 1000ND and find them more appropriate for shallower tanks, aesthetics aside.  In my current set up the PAR is surprisingly uniform across the footprint; around 50 at the substrate.  I'm suspending my units 30cm above the aquarium rim and there's plenty of light to grow anything, including a tight carpet of HC and Glosso.

Two Arcadia units over my current tank would be massive overkill, especially as there's no control over intensity, except for lifting the units up or down (is there a suspension kit?) I would also consider one Arcadia unit over a nano tank as massive overkill too. CO2/nutrient/delivery would have to be absolutely spot-on.  Of course, when the dimmable versions are released then they'll be no issue with overkill. I also conceed that for very tall aquariums, the Arcadia units are more appropriate from a functional perspective due to their penetration.



			
				Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> As to the looks of the unit, I just have a personal preference for the metal construction of the Arcadia lamp, over the cheap plastic of the TMC.  The shape isn't an issue, as fish aren't rectangular or square, nor are plants.   Plus I like round lights anyway.


Each to their own. 



			
				Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> Just to be clear here, I was discussing the Arcadia units as these are what the original post was asking about.  If it had been asking about TMCs I would have posted info about my experience with these.  I posted because I saw nobody else coming forward who was using Arcadia EcoAqua 30 watt spotlights over a planted tank.


Fair enough. I became involved in this thread because I found your attitude a little dogmatic with regards the aesthetical value of the TMC units.   



			
				Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> There's no embed I can see for vids on here, but you folks might enjoy these vids.


Just copy and paste the full link, rather than the shortened link.  It then embeds automatically.  

Finally, I realise this thread has turned into an Arcadia Eco-Aqua vs TMC 1000ND debate which isn't a bad thing.  Hopefully folk reading this thread will be able to make up their own mind as to which they'd prefer to use for their individual set-ups and circumstances.  They both have their pros and cons, after all.


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## George Farmer (7 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> If you can't say anything else for Arcadia, at least they have been open and public with the figures for PAR etc.  I still struggle to find similar figures from TMC.


TMC are currently producing a comprehensive LED lighting guide with PAR values and other technical data included.  It's certainly needed with their extensive range of units now available.  I really like their AquaBeam 1500 Ocean White (9000K) - even crisper and better for greens.


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## skeletonw00t (7 Feb 2012)

I wish those arcadia were cheaper.


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## Piece-of-fish (7 Feb 2012)

Putting an aesthetics of whole system very high in my setups I would never never ever put this ugly black thing over any of my tanks no matter how good it would perform    Arcadia must look for a new product designer.
To me it looks worse than cheap chinese lights. Just my opinion guys.


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## Antipofish (7 Feb 2012)

Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Putting an aesthetics of whole system very high in my setups I would never never ever put this ugly black thing over any of my tanks no matter how good it would perform    Arcadia must look for a new product designer.
> To me it looks worse than cheap chinese lights. Just my opinion guys.



I tend to agree.  First thing I thought was "God it looks horrid", and to be honest its quite plasticy up close and personal.


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## Radik (7 Feb 2012)

One more thing I am worried about this Arcadia is that it is massive spot light. From the pictures of marine tanks using PAR38 for example it does not look nice. So if you add some lens for deeper tanks it will get even worst. I think for planted community is best to have homogenous light coverage. The lens offered 40 or 60degree are definitely not good for freshwater. Optimal is 90 degree or for shallower tanks 115-125. But then again not from one spot light but homogenous spread.

I have feeling this unit was designed primarily for marine than freshwater where you beam on corals and does not care about base substrate.


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## Wolfenrook (7 Feb 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> I tend to agree.  First thing I thought was "God it looks horrid", and to be honest its quite plasticy up close and personal.



I think you are confusing it witht he 1000ND to be honest, which is a plastic brick.  You must be, because the Arcadia is made out of metal, it's 1 big metal heatsink.     I do however understand that people have different tastes, and to mine the TMC lights really are plasticy and cheap looking.

Wrong again Radik my friend.  I have no idea what they look like with the 60 or 40 degree lenses.  My tank is 66cms deep total, given my deep substrate I don't need the narrower beam, plus the fact is even if I did you wouldn't see it as my units are closer together than the reccomendation.







As you can see, no spotlight effect at all in there, in a tank that's 70cm wide, 60cm deep and 66cm high.  I do agree with you on the PAR38s, I've seen photographs of them in use and found the effect ugly.  When I tested these lamps further apart it wasn't quite as nice a 'spread':-






It wouldn't have looked as bad though had I of just used 2 White units, I knew they were going on a narrower tank though, so knew the red and blue light from the freshwater would be neutralised on there.  I think this photographs speaks volumes though regarding the 'beam' spread, where I tried just the 1 lamp on it's own over my old Juwel Rio 180:-






You wouldn't be running just 1 lamp on a tank that length anyway, any more than you would with 1000NDs.  I certainly wouldn't bother with the 'Freshwater' again though.  My wife likes it because it brings out fish colours, but it does nothing for me at all.  Perhaps the extra red and blue wavelengths will aid plant growth, but I doubt it.

Ade


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## Wolfenrook (7 Feb 2012)

Sorry George, I wasn't ignoring you honestly.   

Total agreement that it's good that this has become a discussion of the Arcadia vs The TMC.  I quite agree that they both have pros and cons, hence I mentioned earlier about horses for courses. 

I also do agree that Arcadia need to do more development on their offering.  Ok looks wise you can't please everybody all of the time, although I do think that a simple change to the colour of the unit to brushed metal would give the unit much wider appeal compared to the current black gloss paint finish (which actually works well with my new tank, as the cabinet and wooden rim are in black gloss. lol).  I like black, but I'm probably in a minority.

Sorry if I came over as dogmatic over the aesthetics.  Believe me, I prefer the looks of some of the other makes of LEDs far more, like that AI one that D-D distribute over here, but at over £500 each they're having a laugh.     But looks are a personal thing, and personally I wouldn't have a 1000ND out where you can see it as I find them extremely ugly and cheap looking.  But this is purely personal taste.

Arcadia also need to hurry up and get their 2nd gen unit out.  Dimming is a major point scorer for the TMC units, especially combined with the dawn and dusk cycle from a controller.  I love this feature on my 1000ND and do miss it with these units.  This is something I did point out to Arcadia, and in a 'review' I did (which doesn't come agross quite so dogmatic. lol).  Believe me, I am no Arcadia fan boy, it actually came as a shock to me when the product manager chappy was willing to discuss things with me, as I have been quite scathing with my comments about their products in the past.

Regarding a suspension kit, yes Arcadia do one.  No bridge beam yet as they've gone back to the drawing board for the clamp bracket, which means the bridge beam has gone on hold.

Regarding CO2, I've had to seriously ramp mine up.  I can't even count the bubbles they're that fast, and I'm still not into lime green.  This could partly be the weir though, removing some of the gas.  It wont be the sump as I made sure there was no splashing in there, and the outlet I redirected through a home made 'spray bar' mounted vertically to reduce surface agitation.  So yes, I am in total agreement that the inability to control intensity beyond raising the lamps is a big minus point for them.  Arcadia need to get a move on with the 2nd gen, they may even have been better served to have waited to release until they had this feature.

I welcome your input on this thread to be honest.  Your discussion has been based on facts and not guess work etc.  Obviously we haven't agreed on aesthetics, but that's personal taste.

Let me put this into a fair perspective.  If my new tank had been a little shallower, and had a full hood, I would have used TMC 1000NDs without a doubt.  They are excellent units for normal depth or shallow tanks.  They are nice and slim and fit into hoods nicely, and the dimming and controller really do a great job.  I chose the Arcadia though because I knew this tank was designed to be open topped, and I find the 1000ND ugly.  I had also found from experience that the TMC 1000ND was rubbish on anything deeper than about 18 inches.  This MAY have changed with the newer units, heck my replacement tile certainly LOOKS brighter.  Both units (now the 1000ND seems to have been tweaked) give off a nice colour of light, and both will give you the shimmer effect, shadows and a 3 dimensional look to your tank that you don't get using flourescent lighting.

Right, reposting the vids so folks don't have to leave the site to see them.  Mods are welcome to remove the links from the other posts if they wish. 

The first video shows my ORGINAL 1000ND running over what was at the time my 72cm deep aquarium:-



You can probably see on that just how dull this light looked, and why I was put off slightly.

This second video is of my new tank (seriously new, so forgive the fact it looks ropey still):-



It's not a true comparison, as I was using a single 1000ND, and here I am using 2 Arcadias, the reason been the older tank was only 60cm wide which should have been fine for a single 1000ND.  However you can still see quite a difference.  HOWEVER this is also comparing the OLD 1000ND with the Arcadia, which isn't entirely fair.  But you can see why I went off the 1000ND a bit, and perhaps understand my reasoning a little better.   

Ade


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## Morgan Freeman (7 Feb 2012)

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> I wish those arcadia were cheaper.



I wish all LEDS were cheaper!

In fact, I wish more strip lights were made with LEDS so you don't need to purchase two or three to cover all but the smallest tank.


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## Wolfenrook (7 Feb 2012)

They'll drop in price one day I'm sure.

Heck, remember how much T5 kit cost when it first hit the hobby?  Or the cost of Sky HD when it first came out?  Although it does seem that LEDs have a much longer 'bleeding edge' period than most tech usually does....

I'd also like to see somebody like TMC or Arcadia bite the bullet and design a BIGGER fitting for bigger tanks without multiple units.  Not a linear type one, but one like the marine ones you see that look like a luminaire, but with LEDs.  Then sell it at a sensible price point, rather than the £500 plus these things go for.

Ade


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## hinch (7 Feb 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> I wish all LEDS were cheaper!
> 
> In fact, I wish more strip lights were made with LEDS so you don't need to purchase two or three to cover all but the smallest tank.



I'm working on some designs for some strip lights powered by LED's as I wanted a cheap and effective way of lighting my big tank.  Once I've got them done and up and working etc ironed out all the bugs I'll be happy to knock up some extras for people at cost + time price.


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## NA-Fan (7 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> ... I do however understand that people have different tastes, and to mine the TMC lights really are plasticy and cheap looking.



Says the man with an artificial ornament in his aquascape?!   

Sorry Wolfenrook (can I call you Ade?), I couldn't resist!   

This is a fascinating topic.  For the record I much prefer the TMC units in terms of their looks. I'm guessing most people would.  Plastic or not, the lines are easier on the eye.  I saw a couple of TMC tiles over some aquascapes on the Aquajardin stand at Aquatics Live last November and they looked great, especially with the white mounting system and gloss white cabinets.  Maybe Arcadia should also consider white units?  It's obviously the new black!   

I'm considering 2 tiles over my 60cm optiwhite to replace my Arcadia OT2 luminaire.  I love the look of suspending them from the ceiling and having an totally clean look. No offence Ade, but George's set-up is in a different league to your own from an interior design viewpoint. Can you really say you'd prefer to see the Arcadia units above his tank from the image George has posted?

@ George - can you elaborate on the differences of the 1000ND and the Aquabeam 1500 (9000K), please?  Sorry if this is going off-topic but it's all to do with LED lighting and that's the thread title! 

Keep up the great discussion! It's very entertaining and informative.


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## Antipofish (7 Feb 2012)

Wolfenrook said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No confusion at all    I have seen them both, and regardless of what it is _made_ of, it still looks plasticky. Of course if you get up close and personal you may be able to tell the difference, but from a normal viewing distance it looks completely tacky to me.  As I said, it is personal opinion, what one person likes, another will not.  You clearly don't like the TMC's and yet others do.  There is no right or wrong here, only personal taste as you have acknowledged


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## Wolfenrook (7 Feb 2012)

No offense taken, George probably doesn't have to design to compromise with his wife...  If I didn't that cat wouldn't get tank room, nor would the mollies, Endlers etc...  The cat is my wife's Bast statue, and she insists on it been in there.  George has seen photographs of some of my past tanks, and knows I can do better.  These days though I have to allow my wife input.  On my dart frog vivs I don't, and these tend to look a lot nicer.  She has very different tastes visually to mine.  I'm hoping the thing will vanish once it's grown in to be honest. 

As to what I would prefer to see over George's, yes to my eyes the Arcadia lamps would look nicer hanging over it.  I really do find the plastic brick TMCs really really ugly.  These are better looking still http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/ai-s ... 070-module but way over priced.  The Arcadias look a lot better though once you get rid of the tacky bracket.  But then, if you have ever seen the 'bracket' that comes with the 1000ND you wouldn't bring brackets into the discussion. lol  To be quite honest, neither Arcadia or TMC have a nice design, they both need to improve.  TMC need to lose the cheap plastic, Arcadia need to lose the fat look and maybe the gloss black paint.  Just of the 2 FOR ME the Arcadia is the least ugly and cheap looking of the 2.

Ade

PS.  Just to be really honest here, I currently HATE the look of the 'scape' in my new tank.  I can't stand the look of the anubias, I'm screaming inside wanting some nice red stem plants, and that cat....  The equipment however looks really nice to me. lol


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## Radik (8 Feb 2012)

> Wrong again Radik my friend. I have no idea what they look like with the 60 or 40 degree lenses. My tank is 66cms deep total, given my deep substrate I don't need the narrower beam, plus the fact is even if I did you wouldn't see it as my units are closer together than the reccomendation.



You probably have to re-read what I wrote. I said with 40-60 Degrees lenses this is no go. Without lenses or lens up to max 90Degree will be ok. It is useless for freshwater deep tanks with narrow lens.

Personally I ordered 100x50x50 tank, this will had custom LED again. I will make nice spread of around 30-40LED (66-88Watts) with 90degree lens for penetration. My cost will be in the Arcadia price tag or even less. That's the way to go. Manufacturers either make too expensive or not fit for purpose.


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## Radik (8 Feb 2012)

Oh and on that tank "cube" it looks good. I am not yet convinced you get good coverage on longer tanks even adding more units. Would be good to test with PAR meter.


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## Wolfenrook (8 Feb 2012)

I'm not nocking DIY LED setups for one second, if I had the skill and ability I'd probably have considered going that route myself.  Me with a soldering iron though isn't a good idea, not with my tremor.   You will always get better results with skilled DIY, as you can customise to your exact needs and requirements.

No PAR meter here, so I will just wait and see how my plants do.

Ade


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## mzm (1 Mar 2012)

HI George here is a question for you. I have 2 TMC 1000ND and 1 TMC 1000HD Ultra hanging 13inches above a 20inch deep tank. These are on for 5 hours and the 1000HD Ultra is only running at 50%, My dwarf hairgrass, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, java fern and java moss all look a mess. The green is turning into brown and leaves seem to be covered in some sort of brown algae. I would assume that this is due to high light which according to most posts here cannot be since the tmc's are really high up for such a deep tank. Circulation and co2 is plentifull with a drop checker being the right colour right on the other side of the tank. Comments would be appreciated.


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## TallDragon (14 Apr 2013)

I still do not get, why a year has passed and Arcadia has not come out with a dimmable version of the eco-Aqua, as some have claimed in this thread that they would. I am just looking for a decent futureproof light over my 35cmx35x40 tank, but the TMC new 1500 with dimming seems overkill. Presently considering the TMC 400 tile or waiting on the new Arcadia LED offering with dimming. (when i say 'futureproof'I mean that i will want to eventually get a bigger tank, but do not want to throw out a good light)


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