# Cyanobacteria and a lot more... help!



## harry1212 (30 Dec 2016)

Hello everyone,

I really need the help of you all as I'm very new to the Planted aquarium hobby. I have kept fish for a fair few years, mainly easy community fish and even had experience with a reef tank a while back. I recently managed to get hold of a 120L aquarium from a family member who had closed it down a while back and decided this would be a good opportunity to start a planted aquarium. I done a lot of research into this, mainly through the green machine (shop in the UK) watched loads of videos etc and lurked about on this forum for a while too.

A little bit about the tank firstly.
As mentioned its a Fluval 120L aquarium, originally with T12 lighting I believe so nothing fancy there. Here is what I have changed and my equipment list:

- 120L Fluval Aquarium
- 200W Heater
- Fluval G3 Filter (Biological, Mechanical and using Carbon for chemical)
- UV sterilizer
- 9KG pressurized CO2 system with reactor inline with the filter (dosing around 3-4 bps)
- Jeabo 3 pump dosing system
- 2x Kessil A150WE lights
- 1x Kessil A360WE Light
- 1x 1000LPH powerhead

I am currently dosing 5ml of TNC Complete every day through the dosing pump so that I do not forget to do this.
CO2 comes on at 5:30am for lights on at 9am. CO2 then shuts off at 3:30pm for lights out at 5PM
This keeps the drop checker in the right area but only just. If I increase the CO2 much more the fish seem to struggle
Substrate is ADA Powersand and Amazonia

Fish:
- 6 Neon Tetra
- 3 Glow Lamp Tetra
- 5 Amano Shrimp
- 5 Otocinclus
- 2 Eels (very small they came from another tank that was shut down)

Plants:
Dwalf HG
Rotala Rotundifolia

Water Parameters:

pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 40 ppm
KH: 100 - 200 ppm
GH: 100 - 200 ppm

Maintenance:

Weekly water change of 30% sometimes more often depending how busy the week is. Filters get cleaned at least once a week or if the Fluval G3 states they need cleaning due to flow

The big problem as you will see from the photos is the algae. Everywhere. I am unsure where I have gone wrong. I had a problem a few weeks back with the CO2. The pipe came off the cylinder (silly me) and I didn't realize for a few days, by which point there was some Cyanobacteria on the substrate. I reconnected the CO2 and cleaned it all off doing a water change (25%). Since then, the algae has got really bad. I keep up with maintenance and try to clean algae as soon as it forms, but last two days I have been very busy and have not had time, so you can see in two days how much is forming on the hardscape etc.

I have ordered some ChemiClean as a final fall back but ideally would prefer not to use chemicals in the aquarium.

Plant growth has always been very slow, which made me think that the lights were not bright enough hence buying the Kessil A360WE which I have not yet installed because wanted to get some advice and see what you guys think.

Any help you can give me would be really appreciated. I'm starting to think it would be easier to remove fish into another tank, remove plants and start again. The advice I have had from different people on my journey has been conflicting and I think this has also contributed to me changing things when they probably didnt need changing!

Thanks, Harry


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## darrensp (30 Dec 2016)

I have had the same problem as you.

First thing I would do is reduce lighting and the water changes to 50%  daily/bi-daily. Or you could completely cover tank blocking out all the light for 3-4 days, then remove cover followed by big water change 50%+ siphoning out all the debris  from the substrate trim damaged/dying leaves and throw in some fast growing stems and surface plants.

Do you have a picture of the whole tank? Other people may be able to offer advise if the can see the full set up. I have learned flow in a high tech tank is one of the most important things.


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## Chris Jackson (30 Dec 2016)

Hello there,
You don't say how long this tank has been set up but a few thoughts spring to my mind is..

1. Cleaning filters weekly isn't to be recommended in my opinion. I do mine about every 6 months! If you have fine media that clogs, then maybe change that but otherwise leave the rest undisturbed.

2. ADA amazonia is full of nutrients and requires very little supplemtation in a lightly planted tank during the first few months.

3. Try adding some floating plants, these will diffuse the light,help with water conditioning and also allow you to monitor ferts with the "duckweed index" method. Search this site for more info on that. 

4. I have not found rampant water changing to be a great help with cyano or any other type of algae outbreak. So rather I suggest bi weekly changes as a maximum or ideally just smaller amounts daily. What you're looking to achieve is stable balanced conditions and this requires time and patience and often less fiddling. So I suggest you syphon the cyano off with a piece of airline tubing daily and then top up the tank. 

5. Resist the urge to keep tweaking things, using chemicals etc. etc. 

6. Oxygenation is important for excellent filter function and healthy bacterial colonies so seriously consider adding night time aeration as a minimum and also increasing surfaces movement. In a thriving densely planted tank the plants are doing much of the filtration but when in a situation like this the importance of your filters can't be over stressed so stop killing them with kindness and consider adding some filter bacteria booster. ADA Green Bacter seems to work very well for me and a little goes a long way.

Good luck, don't give up, I suspect all of us have been through this type of situation at some point!


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## harry1212 (30 Dec 2016)

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. I think I shall firstly go down the black out method for a few days, I'm going to do a water change tomorrow as per my maintence schedule and remove as much algae as possible like Chris Jackson has said. I will then after that look to get some more fast growing plants. Any recommendations? 

I will add an airstone over the blackout period to keep oxygen levels high, hopefully this will help the filter bacteria too. The tank has been running around 3 months, when i first started it I was advised to allow the tank to cycle which I did and then do the planting, think I would have been better of planting from the start.

As for filter, I do not touch the biological part of the filter and there is a fair amount of this in the G3, there is also a load of bio balls in the aquarium as the cainster filter was something I added later on into the aquarium. The mech filter needs cleaning weekly as there is a lot of organic waste that it seems to collect otherwise it will rapidly loose its flow.

Hopefully things will improve, its a bit like taking your driving test ive invested too much money to just give up now  

Thanks, H


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## harry1212 (30 Dec 2016)

darrensp said:


> Do you have a picture of the whole tank? Other people may be able to offer advise if the can see the full set up. I have learned flow in a high tech tank is one of the most important things.


I shall get some more photos tomorrow


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## Christos Ioannou (30 Dec 2016)

harry1212 said:


> I will then after that look to get some more fast growing plants. Any recommendations?



check this! 
Good luck in your recovery process! 
subscribed


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## Doubu (30 Dec 2016)

Chris Jackson said:


> 6. Oxygenation is important for excellent filter function and healthy bacterial colonies so seriously consider adding night time aeration as a minimum and also increasing surfaces movement. In a thriving densely planted tank the plants are doing much of the filtration but when in a situation like this the importance of your filters can't be over stressed so stop killing them with kindness and consider adding some filter bacteria booster. ADA Green Bacter seems to work very well for me and a little goes a long way.



This did it for me - I also recommend adding an air stone while the CO2 is not running.


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## harry1212 (30 Dec 2016)

Ok, so I have ordered the following to hopefully provide some more fast growth in the tank and outcompete the algae:

- Duckweed (going to try the Duckweed Index (Thanks Chris) )
- Ludwigia Repens "Rubin"
- Hygrophila Difformis
- Cabomba

Thanks for everyones support appreciate all the suggestions and feedback  Does anyone else use TNC Complete as a fert? I did purchase the ADA Step 1 and some potassium as the green machine sent this instead of another ADA product. Didn't see much happening with both products.

H


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## harry1212 (31 Dec 2016)

Hi all, done a 50% water change today, replaced the white diffused background with some car window tint as the white didnt look right and used the air line method to clean plants and algae from the gravel. This worked fantastic! 
I have now completely covered the tank, stopped dosing the ferts, turned off the CO2 and added an air stone for the next 3 - 4 days. Hopefully by this time the new plants will have arrived! 

Fingers crossed this will reduce the Cyanobacteria. 

H


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## harry1212 (1 Jan 2017)

Had a quick peep just a minute ago under the tanks cover and amazingly the algae seems to be retreating! Going to keep the cover on until Tuesday/Wednesday then hopefully get my new plants in. Should i then start dosing again? I am looking into using EI at this point but as Chris said the substrate is very nutrient rich so dont want to overcook it! 

Thanks and Happy new year, Harry


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## Chris Jackson (2 Jan 2017)

Happy New Year...

Try not to peep ....

Personally I suggest you hold off from EI for now, the duckweed index will teach you more about your plants and dosing. It is better tolerant to the many variables at his stage and particularly with less than non limiting CO2 levels. 

You can use dry ferts to make up an excellent low cost all in one solution that I find very effective http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm


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## Eduard18 (4 Jan 2017)

Hello there ! I must say that I am a bit confused about your water parameters : you say that your pH is 7.6 while using ADA as substrate and pressurised CO2 ? Is your tap water that hard ? And I've never seen before KH and GH measured in ppm ; usually it's  in German degrees ; it's a nonsense to start a tank and doing the planting later and besides your plant mass was low, so ordering extra plants it's a  very good decision, especially fast growing ones ; your light might be too strong ; 2 Kessils A150 for 120 liters it's too much ; I hope you are not running them at 100 percent , but I can understand the desire of having an even light diffusion ; and you ordered an A360, don't use it for this tank ; well what else can I say : keep up with an aggressive WC regimen, make sure the CO2 is flowing and that is getting everywhere in the tank ; I tend to agree that cleaning the filter once a week is counterproductive, but if your G3 says so, who am I to disagree ? I hope you are doing it using aquarium water during a WC; at the same time I'm not a huge fan of electronic filters 
It looks like you invested a ton of money in top quality aquarium equipment, you just have to know  that in order to achieve a successful result you must keep a tight maintenance schedule 

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (4 Jan 2017)

Hi all, 





Eduard18 said:


> And I've never seen before KH and GH measured in ppm ; usually it's in German degrees


You can convert ppm to dGH/dKH, the <"actual working are a bit strange">, but ~17ppm is approx 1dGH/KH.

cheers Darrel


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## harry1212 (4 Jan 2017)

Hi all,

Thanks for the advice, I have removed the sheets today from the tank and the result was amazing! pretty much all the bacteria gone! So, what I have now done is a large 50% water change using the airline tube to remove as much extra dirt from the tank and plants as possible. Tank looking best its looked in a while. 



Eduard18 said:


> 2 Kessils A150 for 120 liters it's too much ; I hope you are not running them at 100 percent , but I can understand the desire of having an even light diffusion ; and you ordered an A360, don't use it for this tank


With regards to the Kessils, I was just using the two A150WE lamps on full brightness as any less the tank looked really dark, hence adding the 360. Since having this on the tank plants are starting to pearl which I thought meant the light and CO2 were in the right area? The 360 is running at about 60 - 70%.

I'm not dosing anything into the tank at the moment, going to leave that for a few weeks to monitor things and see what happens. I have also added the duckweed to try the duckweed index method. I also today added 10 more Amano Shrimp to try and boost the cleanup crew. There is now 15 shrimp and 5 otocinclus.

CO2 is started again which I am diffusing into the water through the canister filter. The drop checker is slowly changing colour. Added the air pump into the tank to run at night which I think really helped during the blackout.



Eduard18 said:


> you say that your pH is 7.6 while using ADA as substrate and pressurised CO2 ? Is your tap water that hard ?


Yes, annoyingly my tap water is really really hard, in Norfolk so its really bad! 

Think thats all I have to report at the moment, will post some photos shortly!


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## Chris Jackson (4 Jan 2017)

harry1212 said:


> Hi all,
> With regards to the Kessils, I was just using the two A150WE lamps on full brightness as any less the tank looked really dark, hence adding the 360. Since having this on the tank plants are starting to pearl which I thought meant the light and CO2 were in the right area? The 360 is running at about 60 - 70%.



With regard to lighting I find that if you aim for just enough intensity to have them pearly gently then you're in for a far easier ride in all respects. High intensity lighting means huge co2 and fert demands, rampant growth that is exhausting to trim etc. believe me the novelty of all that soon wears thin.. Get this tank grown in and gently established in the next couple of months and then consider winding everything up to "11" if you wish and enjoy the next roller coaster ride.

CO2 direct into the canister works very well as long as your lighting is not driving the tank too fast for the plant's needs. If you wind up the lighting so that the pearling is intense then you'll certainly be needing either some kind of CO2 diffuser or a dedicated reactor. I hate the look of CO2 mist in a tank so choose the reactor option. My 400ltr Lazy Asian scape runs on just 1bps into an Ehiem Classic 600 via and cigarette filter wedged into the end of the CO2 tubing and a 2kg bottle has lasted over a year now but this is a relatively dim crypt tank with low CO2 demands.

Many people do seem to have more difficulty with hard water but I cannot help there as were I am in Cornwall the water is softer than soft.

More clean up crew can only help, those guys do an amazing job, oh and don't be afraid of snails, they can really help as well.
Enjoy


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## harry1212 (4 Jan 2017)

Images!


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## harry1212 (7 Jan 2017)

Hi all, quick update. All the new plants and shrimp are in and looking great. Few plants starting to pearl and the co2 seems to be dialed in good! 
One of my Kessils has just died which is annoying so got to get replaced but other than that it's looking good. Not dosing anything at the moment but will start to again soon. Thanks for everyone's advice, I shall once again upload some more photos when I get a moment


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## harry1212 (26 Jan 2017)

Hey all, sorry for the delay in getting some more photos out there, been very busy with work! 

The Cyanobacteria is all cleared up now and the addition of fast growing plants has really helped add another dimension to the aquarium. I do not have another issue, I seem to be growing some hair algae. I have increased the CO2 and increased the ferts as recommended from James Planted Aquarium, i am also trying to manually remove it but this takes ages and isnt very effective. Anyone got any ideas on the best way to cure that?

Thanks, Harry


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## harry1212 (26 Jan 2017)

Image link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/151338115@N04/32382387282/in/datetaken/

Sorry couldn't get them to embed!


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## xim (26 Jan 2017)

Maintenance (clean the tank when doing water change, keep things working/in shape, etc.) is very important for a high tech tank.

But if the situation has passed the point that could be handled by maintenance alone, the only thing that has ever worked for me: an army of algae eaters (Oto, Amano shrimp).

My strategy is when the algae are rampant, you will need much more algae eaters to fight them than you normally do. Imagine there're so many of algae now and each of them is multiplying, not just sitting still. If grazing pressure is lower than the algae's multiplying rate, you will never win.

After the algae are gone (this is just saying because actually there will always be some algae in the tank), you can lower the number of algae eaters down.

This is the algae-fighting technique of some aquascapers I know. If the tank starts off smoothly, then great, just a few algae eaters is enough. If not, an army of them. No budget for large amount of algae eaters? Chemical then. And always follow with an amount of algae eaters to guard the tank.

PS: I have tried the black-out method. It hurt the plants and the algae just came back. It might have worked better if I had had enough algae eaters, though.


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## harry1212 (26 Jan 2017)

Hi @xim thanks for the reply  When you say chemical, what sort of approach would you recommend for this? I would obviously prefer to avoid it if possible, but I have heard a lot of different things about using peroxide. Any experiences with this?


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## xim (26 Jan 2017)

Yes, H2O2 3% in a spray bottle, spray it underwater, like this guy on youtube:


The max I have used was 90-ml in a 340-litre tank before doing water change.

Some plants may melt a bit. The ones that suffer the most are true aquatic plants such as Vallisneria and Blyxa.


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## harry1212 (27 Jan 2017)

Thanks @xim ive ordered some on ebay so will give it a try. Will test on a small patch in the aquarium and monitor it for a while, then will try a bit more providing the results do not do any damage to livestock and plants


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## zozo (27 Jan 2017)

The spray bottle is not air tight, if it was it would be sucked vacuum when spraing out it's contenst, but it doesn't, you pump contents out and air back in.. So if you pump peroxide out with the bottle (spray head) submersed, air can't get back into the bottle, right? There is nothing else to replace the air than the dirty tankwater which is sucked into the bottle mixing and reacting with and deluting the peroxide in there.

anyway if you not intent to empty the bottle straight away with one treat, i would not hold the bottle submersed while spraying. It's a waste of the rest peroxide in there.


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## harry1212 (27 Jan 2017)

Thats a good point, I had wondered about this! What i was going to do is spray underwater, then return the bottle to the surface before releasing the spray handle so that it would take in air. Wonder if that would work!!


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## zozo (27 Jan 2017)

Yes it likely would, but than using a 5ml syringe is more effective with spot treating. I use a glass one with needle, slides a bit easier then the rubber sealed plastic syringes..  Peroxide realy works great, but no need to get out the big guns, you do not need massive amount of it.. Personaly i use a little 30 ml spray bottle for spraying.. And +/- 110 ml peroxide a month on 2 tanks.


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## xim (27 Jan 2017)

My bottle collapses, have to remove the head to let air in after using it. 

But yes, I thought of the issue too, just didn't mention about it thinking it might be too long. So this is what I use, the container is always above the water.





From the OP's last picture, I think a spray head is more convenient.

By the way, I think the chance of algae not coming back after the treatment will be much bigger if you have some shrimp. Oto's are not effective dealing with stringy algae. I only won after having shrimp.


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## Easternlethal (29 Jan 2017)

my bet is the lights are too strong. the plants which have low light needs will develop algae in those circumstances. if your fast growing plants look fine but algae is still there or if blackouts worked before then we know the algae is related , so just dial it down and see..


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## harry1212 (29 Jan 2017)

Thanks guys, @Easternlethal I have now turned off the Kessil A360 to see if that will have any effect. Think you could be right, the lamp in the middle is where the Hair Algae seems to be growing. I will start with turning it off, then increase until things settle down. Still waiting for Hydrogen Peroxide, think im going to need it to now fix this issue!


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