# Akadama - A cheap substrate



## JamesC

*Introduction *

Having decided that it was time I changed my silica sand substrate for something better I looked around at the options available. For my 200 litre tank I was going to need a fair amount of substrate and all the commercially available ones would cost me a fortune for the amount that I required.

Tom Barr recently published an article where he tested several different substrates growing Myriophyllum spicatum (spiked water-milfoil). The results were quite astonishing, and I quote from the article "SMS had the highest total growth, followed by sand and potting soil, then Delta sediments. ADA and Lake Tahoe sediments had the lowest total growth other than the sand which acts as a non nutrient control". OK this was only one experiment using only one type of plant, but even so the results were very positive towards the SMS. SMS stands for Soil Master Select and is a baked clay that is used as a soil improver due to it's water retention properties. In the States I know of a lot of people who use SMS as a substrate very successfully, but unfortunately it is not available here in the UK.

The hunt was on for something that was very similar, easily available and cheap. A product called Akadama that is used by Bonsai growers caught my attention. This is a baked clay that should have similar properties to SMS. There are different grades of Akadama so had to try out different ones. The best one I found is called Double Red Line Hard Quality and has a very good grain size of 0-6mm. There is also a finer grain size variety of 0-3mm called Shohin Double Red Line Hard Quality, but this I thought was a bit fine for my needs.


*What is Akadama?*

The name Akadama comes from the Japanese words for red and ball. It is a volcanic clay that is mined from a depth of about three meters from old Japanese Cryptomeria forests. The deeper it is mined the harder it becomes. It is then dried and baked to remove any organic matter and diseases. Finally it is crushed, sieved and graded into different particle sizes and then bagged up. It is used by many bonsai growers for its ability to retain water and nutrients while still providing porosity and free drainage. When wet it darkens making it easy to see when it has dried out which is a useful benefit for growers.

Akadama has a very good CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) value which means that it will pull out of the water any cations, eg Mg++, Ca++, K+, etc and hold onto these making them available for the plant's roots. The Akadama works similar to a cation exchange resin used in domestic water systems for softening water except rather than exchange magnesium and calcium for sodium ions, it exchanges magnesium, calcium, etc for hydrogen ions. The exchanged hydrogen ions then react with any bicarbonates in the water causing the KH and pH to drop. Also due to magnesium and calcium being held by the Akadama the GH will drop as well. After a period of time and a few water changes the water parameters will settle down. 

Being a baked clay Akadama is very porous which means that there should be very good water circulation through the substrate helping prevent any dead spots and providing plant roots with nutrients.




 




*Setup*

I would advise anyone wishing to try this substrate to purchase the Akadama in the picture above. Some Akadama's are very soft and crumble easily. The one drawback is that the Akadama when bagged up is very dusty and will require a lot of rinsing.

You now have two choices. If you are not concerned about the KH dropping sharply then the Akadama can just be placed straight in the tank and used straight away. It is advisable to do very regular large water changes to dampen the KH changes. It took two weeks of almost daily water changes until my tank settled down. The other choice is to pre-treat the Akadama with a strong GH solution to speed up this process out of the tank. After a week soaking, rinse well and use in the tank. Any KH drop should now be minimised.

Other ideas are to place some mulm from a mature filter or substrate in the bottom of the tank before the Akadama goes in. This will help kick start the substrate with bacteria and make it mature quicker. A scattering of peat in the bottom will provide favourable conditions for bacteria and the plant's roots. Also a scattering of Osmocote in the bottom will provide nutrients in a slow release capsule. Some or all of these can be used.

As a rough guide to how much you need to buy use this formula:
Width of tank (cm)  x  length of tank (cm)  x  thickness of substrate required (cm)  /  1000
This will give you the volume of substrate in litres. Divide this figure by 14 to obtain number of bags required.

*Test tank using Akadama after four months*






*Other peoples tanks*

A selection of other planted tanks I've found on APC that have used Akadama as a substrate. Interesting to also see what has sometimes been added to the Akadama.

*A Piece Of Sintra* 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/31522-piece-sintra-180l.html

*PasoDoble 128*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/47331-pasodoble-128-a.html

*400L Planted Aquarium*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/45508-400l-planted-aquarium.html

*Aqua Diary 65L*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/8782-aqua-diary-65l.html

*Rasbora's Olympus*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/35406-rasbora-s-olympus.html


*Final thoughts*

How well does it work is a good question and one I can't truthfully answer. All I know is that it is better than using my silica sand, especially with the crypts which I never had a great deal of success with before.

As the substrate is fairly nutrient free to start with it is best suited with a water column dosing method such as Estimative Index or PMDD + PO4.

Even though it is graded 0-6mm I have found that most of the particles are in the 3-4mm region with only a few larger ones around the 6mm mark, as can be seen in the photo above. This to me is almost perfect.

I've only been testing this substrate for a few months so am not sure yet about it's long term stability. So far it's been great but I have noticed that when disturbing the substrate there is a small amount of 'dust' produced. If you are someone that likes to constantly rearrange your tank then you may find that the Akadama breaks up a bit, but this is fairly normal for this type of substrate and shouldn't be a problem. Also it is recommended not to place heavy objects like large pieces of slate or rock on top of it as it is likely to become crushed.

Anyone who has Amano's Nature Aquarium books may have already noticed that he uses Akadama in quite a few of his early tanks before he switched over to Aqua Soil. I only noticed this after I had started to use it.

And finally how much does it cost? Each 14 litre (~10KG) bag cost me Â£6.50 from my local bonsai dealer.

*Follow my 200 litre tank journal using Akadama - http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=860*


*UPDATE 19/12/08*
My 200 litre Akadama tank has been running for nearly a year now and I can report that all is well with the Akadama holding up well will no noticeable crumbling. When I do another tank with Akadama I will make one change in that I will add a sprinkling of Osmocote in with the sphagnum moss to provide some extra NPK for the plant roots. Osmocote is a slow release fertiliser that comes in small capsules.

I have read recently that Akadama is being used for pond purification systems and also for removing water pollutants from places like road run offs. It apparently has a great capacity for absorbing all types of compounds and not only cations as I initially thought. One compound that it has a great capacity to absorb is phosphate which is why it is used in pond purification systems. Could also explain why at first when I measured phosphate levels in my tank they always appeared to be zero. This is great for the plants if Akadama is used with a water column dosing method as the Akadama will provide nutrients for the roots on a long term basis. Another bonus which I have noticed at first is how clear the water was, most likely due to the absorption properties of the Akadama.

James


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## George Farmer

James, you the man!  Worth a sticky, for sure.

Thanks for sharing your hard work, yet again.  

Are you up for that PFK reader visit soon...?


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## daniel19831123

This substrate is widely use in asia for aquascaping. I was going to use them initially but then I thought they were a little too big to hold down HC and other less well rooted stem plants so I give it a miss. Appearance wise it looks very much like Dupla substrate


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## Garuf

And it's better than ADA? I must say I am shocked. Does Mr. Barr explain why this is or is it just one species? or...


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## JamesC

> This substrate is widely use in asia for aquascaping. I was going to use them initially but then I thought they were a little too big to hold down HC and other less well rooted stem plants so I give it a miss. Appearance wise it looks very much like Dupla substrate



For the first month or so I had HC at the front to test how well it grew. Growth was exceptional with very lush green leaves. It soon covered the whole front of the tank in a thick mat and had to be removed to make way for something else. When I did remove it, it also pulled up a lot of the Akadama showing how well it had rooted. Sent it up to George in exchange for some of his crypts that he had removed from his tank.



> And it's better than ADA? I must say I am shocked. Does Mr. Barr explain why this is or is it just one species? or...



I wouldn't go as far as to say it was better, but Â£ for Â£ it probably is. The test was done with water that was continually changed so that any leaching of nutrients into the water column would not affect the results. In a enclosed system the results may well be different. Well worth signing up to the Barr Report as there is a wealth of information there.

James


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## GreenNeedle

James

I must say that this looks like Tropica which is also a clay based substrate.  I guess Tropica works in the same way in trapping the nutrients from the water column to feed the plant??  No idea.

This is a pic of my tropica before covering it:





As you can see it looks almost identical in colour and the way it remains in particles.  4 months on I can still see through the glas that under the sand it is still in particle form.

Andy


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## Themuleous

Very interesting James, I was thinking of changing the substrate in my emersed nano as the HC isn't doing very well, was going to get ADA AS but its darn expensive, will def give this a try now!!!

Much appreciated 

Sam

EDIT - is this not the same thing as aquaclay?

EDIT 2 - we get ripped on in the aquarium business, don't we?


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## andy

For those interested.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14-Lt-Double-Line ... p1638.m118


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## GreenNeedle

Did you notice the - Collect Only tag.lol

I dont drive so that rules me out. he, he

Andy


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## Simon

I've just found this and I'm amazed! I've kept bonsai for 10 years and have always used Akadama...never considered it as a substrate. 


It does seem to break down  after around 4 years with bonsai, not sure if being submerged in water will effect this.

One thing I can add that might help. You can buy Japanese sieve sets for this kind of material, this will give you the control to grade the particle size from around 2mm-6mm


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## Themuleous

Andy - thanks for the link matey, Hermitage ain't to far from me and I'll certinally be down that way with work at some stage no doubt.  I'll myself some for sure.

Simon - from my limited bonsai experience most 'soils' need to be kept moist, so I would think the result might be similar.  Substrate in aquariums get changed fairly regularly as well.  But cheers for pointing it out.  Any tips on what to look for re the sieves?  Could you recommend a shop?  A small gauge colander or similar might do the same thing, thinking about it.

Thanks guys 

Sam


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## Simon

Sam,

The Japanese bonsai sieves  come with a set of size graded interchangeable grids....that way you can acurately seperate out the particle sizes. A bag of red line akadama with have particles from 1-6/7mm.

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com

they sell everything, infact some of the other Japanese substrates may be worth investigating. I use one called Kiryu for my Pine trees, it's harder than Akadama.

With regards to the Tropica substrate. I believe one of the key ingredients of this is Sphagnum moss. In bonsai sphagnum moss is used to rescue sick trees or aclimatise collected material. It seems to have some amazing properties that trees thrive in. I had a quiet valuable maple that got really sick, I took it out of the pot and planted it in pure fresh sphagnum moss....it staged an amazing recovery. So, I can understand aquatic plants reacting well to this miixed in a substrate.

Simon


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## Simon

This is a really cheap supplier of Akadama in Kent area....just 6.50 a sack!


http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/soil.asp


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## JamesC

Simon said:
			
		

> This is a really cheap supplier of Akadama in Kent area....just 6.50 a sack!
> 
> 
> http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/soil.asp


That's where I get mine from. Luckily he's only 5 minutes drive from me. Runs his business from home and has an amazing setup in his garden. Real nice bloke as well. Even tempted to have a go at bonsai's myself.



> With regards to the Tropica substrate. I believe one of the key ingredients of this is Sphagnum moss


Yes the sphagnum moss (or peat) is of great benefit and the main reason why the tropica substrate is so good. Also the reason why I suggest to add some to the Akadama.

I did try other bonsai soils but decided that the Akadama was best, mainly because of it's good CEC and colour. The Kanuma looked as though it could be good but the colour put me off.

James


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## Moss Man

Simon said:
			
		

> This is a really cheap supplier of Akadama in Kent area....just 6.50 a sack!
> 
> 
> http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/soil.asp



Perfect!
I was just about to ask JamesC where his local bonsai nursery is, as I'm from Kent and into Bonsai trees but have found it pretty difficult to find a decent bonsai nursery. By the looks of the trees in the gallery, this guy knows what he's doing.

It's an added bonus that they sell Akadama soil cheaply, as I'm setting up a few tanks and can set all of them up as low-light planted.

Great article James 

Cheers,
Mike


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## Simon

When I finally get round to setting up my Lido, I think I'll give Akadama a look. Although I prefer a darker substrate. Perhaps Akadama with a layer of eco-complete on top.


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## JamesC

I've made a slight change to the original article. This is what I've added:


I've only been testing this substrate for a few months so am not sure yet about it's long term stability. So far it's been great but I have noticed that when disturbing the substrate there is a small amount of 'dust' produced. If you are someone that likes to constantly rearrange your tank then you may find that the Akadama breaks up a bit, but this is fairly normal for this type of substrate and shouldn't be a problem. Also it is recommended not to place heavy objects like large pieces of slate or rock on top of it as it is likely to become crushed.


James


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## Themuleous

Ive dont a bit of searching and it would seem you can get a fired version of Akadama that is supposed to be harder.  This might be more useful to us planty people.

http://www.trappist.net/estore/merchant ... _Code=soil

I've not manged to source any yet though, well not in the UK at least.

Sam


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## JamesC

The Double Line Akadama is fired but not quite sure how much. On the bag it states it is 'Hard Quality' and compared to the other types of Akadama I've looked at, it is hard. I even hear ADA users commenting on how Aqua Soil breaks down into smaller bits and creates a 'dust cloud' if lots of replanting is done, so it's nothing new.

If you're at all concerned about this then test it first. I'm going to keep my tank running on it for some time to come to see how it goes. So far it's been running 4 months and I'm always fiddling around with it and so far it's fine. Just kicks up some dust when I replant.

In time we'll get a better picture of what it's like when others have tried it as well.

James


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## Themuleous

Yeh will do James  I suggest any properly planted tank I have I will be changing quite regularly anyway and as this stuff aint nearly as expensive it's not that much of a hassle to change it over each time.  I had forgotten ADA AS breaks down.

Sam


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## JamesC

Had a bit of fun browsing the APC forum to see if other people had also used Akadama as a substrate. Came across a few so decided to post some links here as it's quite interesting to see other peoples ideas. I've also included the following text to the original article as well.


*Other peoples tanks*

A seletion of other planted tanks I've found on APC that have used Akadama as a substrate. Interesting to also see what has sometimes been added to the Akadama.

*A Piece Of Sintra* 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/31522-piece-sintra-180l.html

*PasoDoble 128*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/47331-pasodoble-128-a.html

*400L Planted Aquarium*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/45508-400l-planted-aquarium.html

*Aqua Diary 65L*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/8782-aqua-diary-65l.html

*Rasbora's Olympus*
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/35406-rasbora-s-olympus.html

James


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## Themuleous

Interesting James, I see what you mean about the additions to the akadama.

Sam


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## Bingy_bong

Hi James, i have just carefully read this and have been very interested in this article. Whilst looking at the 400L example the aquarist has used industrial carbon and spagnum peat for the bottom of the substrate.
Could you expand on this any? why would this be necessary? Could aquatic soil be used instead? Why would filter mulm be needed - would this not conribute to algae bga ?
would it be beneficial to place some sort of substrate divider between them to stop them being mixed up?

cheers John.


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## JamesC

No idea why the carbon has been used. Everybody has their own way of doing things I suppose.

Mulm and peat work very well together. Mulm adds loads of good bacteria to the substrate straight away, in effect maturing it very quickly. 
Plants roots release oxygen and H+ to add reducing power to absorb nutrients. Peat helps this process by supplying H+ and therefore taking some of the load of the plants.

Aquatic soils provide nutrients and not the jump start as above. They may contain some peat though to aid in nutrient absorbtion. You could always add some mulm which should work very well.

Dislike tank dividers as plant roots get entangled in them. I also don't like mixed substrates very much as they always get mixed together over time. 

Mulm is good for substrates as long as you don't get way too much clogging it up. BGA in the substrate is fairly common and I don't worry about it. Don't know if mulm causes it though.


I have now done a journal on the setup of my 200 litre tank using Akadama - http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=860

James


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## Aeropars

Interesting reading.

Is there no online store that would sell this?


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## LondonDragon

This is very interesting indeed, I seen a few people from Portugal using this on a portuguese forum I visit, seems to be very popular over there. If my HC and glosso don't hold well in my gravel I am going to replace it with this.
Thanks for sharing.


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## JamesC

Aeropars said:
			
		

> Is there no online store that would sell this?


There's a couple of links in this thread. Search Google in the UK for akadama. There's some on ebay for sale last time I looked. Local Bonsai dealers. I've brought stuff from here before - http://www.bonsai-uk.co.uk/bonsai-soils-c-26.html - Â£24 inclusive of P&P for two 14 litre bags. Here as well - http://www.herons.co.uk/prod6.asp?prod_id=10218&id=236&sub_cat=714&grpid=10218&msg=&offset=

James


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## GreenNeedle

To add to the carbon part.  TB suggest Leonardite as it is an extra source of carbon.  This is in his Non CO2 thread (although I will now use it in every scape I do)

Andy


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## Ray

James says in his Akadama journal:



> Yes, if you want ADA AS copy then add an ammonium compound like ammonium nitrate or ammonium chloride. As NH4+ is a cation it will be taken in by the Akadama and make available N for the plant roots. Pre-treating just speeds up the process that would normally take a few weeks with aquarium water, that's all.



So if I pre-treat with neat household ammonia will that do the trick?  I _think_ some of it will be NH4+ and that will be taken in by the Akadama?  If so will it then be released once you start using it in the tank or will it stay in the substrate?  My goal is to have the same benefits as ADA aquasoil here without the horrific costs.

Ammonia aside I assume that Bicarbonate of Soda and Epson salts are a nice low cost way to pre-treat and avoid a GH/KH crash?


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## fishgeek

just use terrestria fertilisers if you want ammonia in your substrate

you could in theory do the same with zeolite

andrew


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## JamesC

Ray said:
			
		

> So if I pre-treat with neat household ammonia will that do the trick?  I _think_ some of it will be NH4+ and that will be taken in by the Akadama?  If so will it then be released once you start using it in the tank or will it stay in the substrate?  My goal is to have the same benefits as ADA aquasoil here without the horrific costs.
> 
> Ammonia aside I assume that Bicarbonate of Soda and Epson salts are a nice low cost way to pre-treat and avoid a GH/KH crash?


Ammonia probably isn't a good idea as it's very caustic. An ammonium salt such as ammonium nitrate is much safer but as I've never tried it it's only theory. I am quite curious with what's in aqua soil. I may try the ammonium idea one day.

Sodium bicarbonate isn't a very good idea as it contains sodium which plants don't like too much of. Adding bicarb makes no difference to the akadama as it's an anion. It's only cations that it can use.

James


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## plantbrain

You might try zeolite sand, it will bind NH4 well and has a nice CEC. You can also simply use a general terrestrial fertilizer to soak the sediment prior to use.

Realize that it will leach out also, so go for low NH4, high NO3 ratios. You can use long term ferts like Osmocoat, ADA uses a similar product in the Power sand.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## JamesC

After reading about zeolite at the Barr Report I had a look into it. Because swimming pools aren't that common in the UK there isn't a great demand for zeolite. The few places I found that sold it only had it in white so I didn't buy it. Also it's about Â£28 for a 12kg bag.

I'd never heard of Osmocote until just now. Looks a very interesting product and one I think I might try. I like the slow release of nutrients bit. This is a brief description of it:



> Osmocote Controlled Release Plant Food controlled release action feeds plants for up to 6 months from one spring time application. Ideal for feeding fruit trees and bushes, flowering and foliage shrubs, herbaceous perennial flowers and climbers. Use whenever planting new shrubs and trees to encourage strong new growth. For use on all plants in the soil or compost. Clean and easy to use.
> 
> NPK fertiliser 14-13-13



This is what it contains:

Ammonium Nitrate
Calcium Phosphate
Ammonium Phosphates
Calcium Fluoride
Magnesium Sulfate
Potassium Nitrate
Boric Acid
Copper Sulphate
Iron Sulphate
Iron EDTA
Manganese Sulfate
Sodium Molybdate
Zinc Sulfate
Zinc Oxide

Can see some experiments coming on here. I'd most likely add the Osmocote with the sphagnum moss peat beneath the akadama substrate to try and prevent too much leeching out into the water column. Just need to work out how much to use. Ammonia can cause big problems in a tank so will have to be carefull.

Garden Direct sell two Osmocote products. The first one - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/osmocote-controlled-release-plant-food-1kg-p-1627 - is the standard one which is what I'm going to use. The second one - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/osmocote-controlled-release-plant-food-tablets-33-x-5g-p-1625 - are tabs and might be able to be used on an existing substrate. I'm going to get both of these products as I want to use them in my garden as well as my planted tank.

Thanks for posting the info Tom
James


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## Ray

Excellent work James (and thanks Tom).  Just yesterday I was lamenting the lack of decent bottom fertilizers with NPK, apart from the Tropica one which is horifically expensive.  Look under "Root Tabs" on Aquaessentials and you see most of products proclaim proudly in thier marketing speal "no Nitratates or phosphates to avoid algae problems" which shows the industry has no idea   Even ADA multibottom and ironbottom don't seem to have macros - maybe Amano relies on mulm to replenish the nitrogen in the substrates after everything in his powersand and aquasoil is used up?

This is all quite annoying since I had decided on using Akadama and wanted to supplement the peat to be sure to give decent dosing like aquasoil would.  Please do keep us updated on what more you find out James - I think you are right the tricky bit is about the correct quantity to use - the risk here is we end up with unacceptably high levels of ammonia for 6 months at a time, and once you've got it down under the substate there is no getting it back   .

I must say, I do like Tom's idea of dosing Zeolite with ammonia and putting that at the bottom of the substrate, but again hard to judge the quantities...


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## JamesC

Ray said:
			
		

> I must say, I do like Tom's idea of dosing Zeolite with ammonia and putting that at the bottom of the substrate, but again hard to judge the quantities...


Another idea would be to add both zeolite and the Osmocote beneath the Akadama as the Osmocote would absorb the ammonia and hold it for the plants to use helping prevent release into the water column.

James


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## Ray

JamesC said:
			
		

> Another idea would be to add both zeolite and the Osmocote beneath the Akadama as the zeolite would absorb the ammonia and hold it for the plants to use helping prevent release into the water column.


Now _that_ would do very nicely I think!

Wacky lateral thinking time here - if you are going to do that you could forget the osmocote and just put the zeolite on top of an undergravel filter which can suck ammonia down out of the substrate to get fixed for the plants by the zeolite!  If the uplift for the UGF went through an external filter with more zeolite and purigen I think you would have very clean water?


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## plantbrain

These are actually very old methods

Seriously, many here on this side of the pond did this stuff pre Dupla, and many post are on the web in the APD.

You can look on http://www.theKrib.com and various post on the Aquatic Plant digest(APD).
It's old, and the old list style, but folks used a lot of this stuff decades before.

ADA is hardly new with all of this and Amano went through the same pains I and others did.
Which is why we all came to similar places at the end even if the paths to get there where different and independent.

28 pounds for 12 Kg is a lot.
We mine it here locally so it's very cheap.
I think it's about 8 x cheaper here.

Osmocoat is time release, most places should carry this or something like it and it should be cheap.
It's much more long term stuff. You see it in potted nursery plants that get watered often etc.

Leonardite is another thing you can search, a good alternative to peat, sort of mix between old peat and young coal(old aquatic plants). I define things into: mulm, peat and leonardite based on age and lability.
SMS has good characters like Akadama also.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Ed Seeley

If I remember correctly, standard retail Osmoscote will release nutrients for around 9-12 months in typical temperate climates.  Its release is supposed to be temperature and moisture related so I'd definitely go easy on the amount you put in as in a tropical tank it might release it more quickly and also need topping up more often.

If you still want to try it I have some commercial stuff that's supposed to release over 15 months that might be better for the job as it has no initial burst either (a lot of the grades do) and could send you some of that.


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## Themuleous

Slow down people!  I've only just bought the Akadama for my 4ft, I cant go changing it already!  Haha.

Sam


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## Ray

JamesC said:
			
		

> Can see some experiments coming on here. I'd most likely add the Osmocote with the sphagnum moss peat beneath the akadama substrate to try and prevent too much leeching out into the water column. Just need to work out how much to use. Ammonia can cause big problems in a tank so will have to be carefull.



Did you go any further on this one James?  My local garden centre sells it but I'm too nervous to try because dosing is an unknown and I don't want to end up with a massive 6 month ammonia spike...

Maybe better with Aqausoil which has a known documented shrink wrapped ammonia spike


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## JamesC

Ray said:
			
		

> Did you go any further on this one James?  My local garden centre sells it but I'm too nervous to try because dosing is an unknown and I don't want to end up with a massive 6 month ammonia spike...
> 
> Maybe better with Aqausoil which has a known documented shrink wrapped ammonia spike



Haven't done anything yet as I just don't have the time. For the time being it is on a long term hold as there are safer ways of introducing ferts to the substrate. I have thought about making some DIY root balls full of goodies. Just need to find some time now.

James


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## Wolfenrook

I've been using a DIY substrate for about 10 years now.  Although, as is often pointed out, my set up is not yet a high tech one (I can't afford pressurised CO2 for one thing), I have had very good results with pretty much every plant I have tried, even growing plants described as needing higher light levels in a low light setup without them turning leggy.

There is no Akadama in it though.   It's a mixed substrate of lime free fine gravel, activated carbon (the same sort as sold for us in filters), peat and API Leaf Zone laterite.  Oh and re the carbon, the reasons I put it in were at the time there were a few articles around supporting it's use in planted tank substrates for a few reasons:-

1) To increase the biological capacity of the substrate as it has a very very high surface area to volume ratio that can be colonised by benificial bacteria, both filter bacteria and nitrogen fixing bacteria that help plant roots to extract nitrogenous nutrients from the substrate.

2)  As commented here re zeolite, to work as a store for excess nutrients, releasing them back into the water column at a later time (kind of links with all the opinions that used to say over time activated carbon leeches stuff back into the water).

I used to recharge this using Dupla Root balls about every 2 years or so, but I neglected this for a while.  I've just used some JBL root balls however to help get things moving again.

I don't know how much of this was based on conjecture and opinions, but for me it has always worked well, with healthy plant growth even in both low light no CO2 conditions, and in higher light (about 3.6 watts per gallon) with DIY CO2 and trace dosing (I don't NP dose as as has already been commented upon my tapwater supply is fairly high in these, and also as I have commented before I find I get a lot of nitrogenous nutrients and phosphates from detritus from my animal life and fish food), to the point where I have to prune even my Ammania Senagalensis weekly, my Ludwigia twice weekly and my Bacopa Monnieri every 2 weeks (these been the only stem plants currently in there), all of these pearl nicely, and the ammania and Ludwigia are lovely shades of red and green.

As to Akadama, I'll be seeting up a small (about 5 gallon) planted nano some time around christmas for dwarf shrimp, this would have been great for this but I have the horrible feeling that it would be unsuitable, which is a shame.

Ade


----------



## GreenNeedle

Just researching my options before I redo my tank in a couple of months.  I am thinking of replacing the Tropica with Akadama and have a few questions ( I have re-read the whole article but I may have missed the answers I am after.)

I will again be using mulm on the bottom, then Â¼inch Leonardite (I bought 2 tubs last time and still have 1), then I want to use the Tropica substitute and finally top it with something like fine river gravel/sand.

I want to try a different cap/barrier from the playsand to get a different more natural and less reflective look.

So the question I want to ask is:  Can I use Akadama as my Tropica Substitute and add my fish (I only have 1 tank) or does it have an ammonia spike?  With the Tropica it went in and the fish followed several hours later.  No huge water changes after either, just the normal weekly 20% change with no casualties.

If so then I can start trying to source some ASAP to get everything in order.

Andy


----------



## JamesC

I wouldn't put anything on top of the akadama as it would soon bet all mixed up. Ok for putting a layer below and topping with akadama though. Akadama is inert so no ammonia spike, just a drop in pH if you don't pre-treat it with something like calcium sulphate. I put my fish and shrimp straight back in after converting my 4 footer to akadama.

If you want a nutritious substrate then akadama is not the way to go. It does seem to work exceptionally well compared to other inert substrates if you like water column dosing. A fine layer of peat and mulm at the bottom is IMHO the best way to go and you could also add some osmocoat to this layer which adds slow release NPK. Then top with akadama. This is what I'd now do if I was doing it again.

Akadama is great for one reason - it's cheap. If cost wasn't a worry then I'd use ADA AS without question. I'd also prepare it the same way though with peat and mulm at the bottom and possibly with a bit of osmocoat added in.

I hate mixed substrates as they always end up all mixed up together.

James


----------



## GreenNeedle

Not to ignore advice James but I was assuming that Tropica was pretty inert and a similar product in that it soaks up nutrient rather than provide it??  I was just going to put the gravel on top for the effect/colouration.  I will again be PMDD+P dosing.

I've not had a problem with the Tropica mixing with sand even though I have plecs and rams who all like to dig.  The only time I did have a problem was when I rescaped using the same substrate.  Root pulling meant 24 hours of cloudy water.  Other than that I have learnt to put in the plants and leave them alone (especially as I am concentrating on crypts)so mixing shouldn't be a problem.

After a 30 mins or so research I can find Akadama quite cheaply but sourcing a decent amount of fine 1-3mm gravel seems to be the problem.  Very expensive as most places sell it in 2kg bags.  Have found one supplier of 25kg but nowhere near as cheap as playsand. lol.  Will have to search a few garden centres next weekend.

At least I know it isn't going to spike now.

Disaster looming probably. lol

Thanks for the reply
Andy


----------



## JamesC

Tropica substrate is full of goodies and works well under akadama.

James


----------



## Egmel

Is J Arthur Bowers Hydroleca a similar product to Akadama?


----------



## Wolfenrook

From reading the description that stuff is fired ceramic.

Ade


----------



## Egmel

Right well a bit of googling later and...

Health and safety PDF on Hydroleca - states it's "Brown calcined clay granules"

Which according to this site means :


> *Calcined clays *: When fired at high temperatures, some clays, fuel ash, and shales form stable compounds that possess low bulk densities and internal porosities of 40-50%. Though calcined clays alter the physical attributes of media in a positive way, they also decrease the level of water-soluble phosphorus in the mix. Because calcined clays are characterized by a high cation exchange capacity, fertilizer application rates may need to be modified if calcined aggregates are incorporated into the media mixes (Bunt, 1988).



It appears that the CEC value isn't as high as Zeolite but is still fairly high.

So... I think I might give it a go if I can find any in B&Q over the weekend.  I'd rinse it first then leave it to soak in water with some DIY TPN+ added to 'prime' it.  If it doesn't work then I can always use it in the garden


----------



## Egmel

Egmel said:
			
		

> So... I think I might give it a go if I can find any in B&Q over the weekend.  I'd rinse it first then leave it to soak in water with some DIY TPN+ added to 'prime' it.  If it doesn't work then I can always use it in the garden


Complete failure, it's more buoyant that I realised, even after being soaked for several hours.  Ah well nice idea while it lasted.


----------



## NatureBoy

I bet you had to laugh! good cec- tick, inert- tick, porous- tick, floats- bugger!


----------



## Egmel

NatureBoy said:
			
		

> I bet you had to laugh! good cec- tick, inert- tick, porous- tick, floats- bugger!


That was pretty much it!  I knew it was too good to be true at around Â£3 a bag!


----------



## NatureBoy

I was looking at the same stuff at the weekend- it's funny where paths lead! 

In the end what I went and bought was a bag of Akadama AND a bag of this stuff I found called Hortag- a much more solid baked clay product, almost grit like, but still porous, inert...and weighty. This is going to go down and form the base 2-3inches on top of which will be the akadama. I've got a good feeling about all this- cheers James for blazing the trail.

I'm not planning on putting any fert tabs down but may squeeze the contents of a filter media over it first to kick start some substrate biology.

Will probably turn the water black!


----------



## Wilis

Hi, I'm considering akadama for my new 48L x 24W x 20H, the thing that puts me off though is the colour but when looking online found something called kyodama,also a bonsai 'soil'. Looks interesting & a viable alternative, it is darker which attracted my attention first off, is slightly smaller grained being described as a traditional volcanic grit, it apparently provides perfect drainage whilst holding on to moisture & is pH neutral whilst having virtually no inherent nutrients. Anyone had any experience of this stuff?
Regards
Will
Edit: This place http://www.greendragonbonsai.co.uk/ does a peat mix with this stuff which could be worth looking into if it wasn't used over something like Tropica substrate maybe?


----------



## JamesC

When looking at different substrates I brought a bag of Kyodama to see what it was like. Volcanic grit is a very good description for it. It is hard and also quite sharp. Also I would think that it has a low CEC so won't hold onto nutrients very well. I decided it wasn't any good for growing aquatic plants in and spread the contents of my bag around the garden.

James


----------



## Wilis

Hi James, 
Sharp-EEK!   Certainly no good then especially considering the other drawbacks you mention. Thanks for the info
Regards
Will


----------



## plantbrain

Quite a few folks used this in Portugal when I was there last month.
But more have been using ADA As alone.
Still, this and the SMS are cheap alternatives.

If you want to add some nutrients, you might consider Osmocoat or something similar, maybe 5 grams per 30cm on the bottom layer, or 1 cm of mineralized mud etc.

I find it semi amusing that folks often go back and forth between old methods and new ones. These are things we did many years ago. Folks tried many concoctions over the years.

While some work well, if you take good care of the water column, other basics of aquarium care, CO2 etc, these sediments can only then be fairly judged. Many lack/ed that skill. 

I've done the entire run of sediments.
I know what to look for and am surprised every now and then. But overall, I like the ADA AS. The other one I really like is Black SeaChem Flourite sand.

I am willing to spend a lot of time in the aquarium, replanting and gardening, I am willing to spend $ for lights, CO2, and my space in my home, I am going to have good items for each part.

This includes the sediment. I really no longer care to do a DIY sediment mix for my personal tanks or clients. I could save some $ and build my own aquarium too, I've done it in the past. 

I think simply trying sediments out in pots and then have the same species in the same type of locations in a bare bottom tank can tell you a lot pretty fast. You can test and see.

The other issue is how the light, CO2, and water column nutrient load affects the results. This leads some to claim all sorts of things, while others see little differences. You need a good control and to consider the other things that occur.
I use this stuff for my bonsai  

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## JamesC

plantbrain said:
			
		

> If you want to add some nutrients, you might consider Osmocoat or something similar, maybe 5 grams per 30cm on the bottom layer, or 1 cm of mineralized mud etc.


After you mentioned osmocote a while ago I had a look into it and have now added it to my tank as well. Not sure if it's made a difference as I don't have another tank setup the same minus the osmocote to compare it to, but I can say that the crypt wendtii I have in there has gone mad and has grown so large and fat that I'm soon going to have to remove it. Here in the UK you can buy these -http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/miraclegro-controlled-release-plant-food-tablets-33-x-5g-tablet-p-1620 at B&Q very cheaply. They are basically osmocote stuck together in small packets. I just push them down into the substrate just like you do a root tab. Out of interest the root capsules that Tropica sell look exactly like they are made from osmocote, except they are a lot more expensive of course.

If I had the money I wouldn't mess around doing things cheap, but just head straight for aqua soil. But I just can't explain to the wife how I need to spend a couple of hundred pounds on ADA substrate.

James


----------



## Ray

I put these in my pot plants, but I did wonder about a planted tank!  In my local equivalent of B & Q they have two types, one with just Macros and one (for flowers, apparently) with traces including copper.  This made me wary for shrimp, not knowing release rates and levels and so forth.  

How many did you add to your tank and is it the kind with copper in - judging by the picture in garden direct (flowers) I guess it is?


----------



## JamesC

I used the one with both macros and micros. Reading the ingredients on the packets some contain only macros and others macros and micros. Initially I planted just a few, but then a week later I put the rest of the pack in. So that's 33 in all, in a 120cm tank. Possibly a bit overkill but shrimp seem fine and I've had it in there for some months now. It's slow release and also as copper is a cation it may be held in by the Akadama anyway.

James


----------



## spider72

Hi guys.

James, as you know, my friends on polish aquatic plant forum are carying out experiment with cat sand (which appears to be idea over 10years old). Because it is made of similar clay like akadama, we are watching this topic closely, especially on the subject how to enrich this type of substrate in nutriens. Tom's idea of using osmocote looks like good solution, but my friends pointed out that type of osmocote which you proposed has very high phosphorus level in relation to nitrogen (no worries about potassium) N:K 14:13:13. I found on other forum Tom's post http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/sh ... stcount=13 pointing to this type of osmocote



			
				Plantbrain said:
			
		

> Adding Osmocoat vs PS to the ADA AS should produce similar effects based solely on nutrients, PS possesses osmocoat like material in it.
> Adding some peat+osmocote ought to do the trick vs using ADA PS.
> 
> Osmocoat:
> OsmocoteÃ‚Â® Azalea, Camellia, Rhododendron Smart ReleaseÃ‚Â® Plant Food
> 
> Soil and peat have long been used, so has kitter litter(a nice clay).
> All quite successfully, but is it due to the substrate, or the water column, or both?



which has N:K 9:9:6, - no better, still quite rich in P in relation to N. Details here http://scottsti.com/en/08_resources/fac ... Food06.pdf

As we can see from the leaflet main source of nitrogen in osmocote is Ammonium Nitrate and Ammonium
Phosphate which in water will produce NH4+ cations. As we all know this kind of substrate will catch NH4+ cations due to it's CEC properties, but PO4-3 and NO3- anions can leak making even worst N relation in the water column, which can be cause for some trouble. Some guys are saying that more appropriate is to use osmocote whith N:K relation closer to Tropica capsules N:K 15:4:7,5 as those been specificially developed for aquatic plants, like for example:
- this one called OSMOFORM1 http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/range/101 N:K 19:5:13+Mg+Traces
- or this one http://scottsti.com/en/08_resources/fac ... Food06.pdf N:K 19:6:12 no traces

Or maybe these NPK relations don't matter because of other processes in substrate which I have no idea about? Or maybe nutriens release rate is so slow that there is no chance of leaking of excess of phosphorus to the water column?

These are the questions for which answers I am looking for and would be good to know yours thougts on this subject guys.

PS: BTW what is SMS stand for?


----------



## Carphunter57

I have a similar product as the substrate in my tank. Danish molar clay is used as cat litter (the pink stuff, normally scented) it is also used in industry to soak up oil spillages and is cheap as chips and unscented Lol.   

30 litre (20 kgs ish) from Partco motor factors Â£7.50.


----------



## JamesC

SMS stands for Soil Master Select. It's a soil enhancement product that is used in places like baseball pitches. Think it is only available in the States and Canada. Going from memory an aquatic plant supplier has brought the product and has changed the name and selling it for loads more money. SMS is what got me interested in finding a cheap substrate here in the UK.

I never really thought about the ratio's in osmocote to be honest. They are supposedly slow releasing so wasn't too concerned about leakage into the water column. Even with all my added osmocote I've not noticed any NO3 or PO4 increase in the water column. I'm not 100% sure if there is any benefit from adding the osmocote but it's so cheap that I'm quite happy to add it any way.

Thanks for posting the osmoform info. I will look into it more.
James


----------



## JamesC

Carphunter57 said:
			
		

> I have a similar product as the substrate in my tank. Danish molar clay is used as cat litter (the pink stuff, normally scented) it is also used in industry to soak up oil spillages and is cheap as chips and unscented Lol.
> 
> 30 litre (20 kgs ish) from Partco motor factors Â£7.50.



There are many products that can be used. Oil dri is for soaking up oil spills and has been used as a substrate - http://www.oil-dri.co.uk/frames/data/tds037.html

James


----------



## spider72

JamesC said:
			
		

> Thanks for posting the osmoform info. I will look into it more.



Here are links with more details about this product:
http://www.scottsprohort.com/_documents ... moform.pdf
http://www.scottsprofessional.com/files/VXtd8lDMiQ.pdf

Thanks for explanation about SMS.


----------



## plantbrain

spider72 said:
			
		

> Hi guys.
> 
> James, as you know, my friends on polish aquatic plant forum are carying out experiment with cat sand (which appears to be idea over 10years old).



Yes, the idea came from Dan Q, long ago.
Did it, used it, worked great.




> Tom's idea of using osmocote looks like good solution, but my friends pointed out that type of osmocote which you proposed has very high phosphorus level in relation to nitrogen (no worries about potassium) N:K 14:13:13.



As it should have, the issue is not the ratio, the issue is having non limiting levels of nutrients. It's not an issue until you try limiting levels in both the water column and the sediment :idea: 
Otherwise, it does not matter.

Some seem stuck on that issue for some reason, but there's no basis for it in plant mineral nutrition.



> which has N:K 9:9:6, - no better, still quite rich in P in relation to N. Details here http://scottsti.com/en/08_resources/fac ... Food06.pdf
> 
> As we can see from the leaflet main source of nitrogen in osmocote is Ammonium Nitrate and Ammonium
> Phosphate which in water will produce NH4+ cations. As we all know this kind of substrate will catch NH4+ cations due to it's CEC properties, but PO4-3 and NO3- anions can leak making even worst N relation in the water column, which can be cause for some trouble.



Such as?
The issue missed here is that the rate of dissolving is slow. It is not like adding dissolved dry pure salts.
ADA has a similar product added to PS BTW.
Nothing new.



> Some guys are saying that more appropriate is to use osmocote whith N:K relation closer to Tropica capsules N:K 15:4:7,5 as those been specificially developed for aquatic plants, like for example:
> - this one called OSMOFORM1 http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/range/101 N:K 19:5:13+Mg+Traces
> - or this one http://scottsti.com/en/08_resources/fac ... Food06.pdf N:K 19:6:12 no traces
> Or maybe these NPK relations don't matter because of other processes in substrate which I have no idea about? Or maybe nutriens release rate is so slow that there is no chance of leaking of excess of phosphorus to the water column?
> 
> These are the questions for which answers I am looking for and would be good to know yours thougts on this subject guys.
> 
> PS: BTW what is SMS stand for?



I think not worrying over minor issues like ratios is wise.
If the tap water you use is high in PO4, use the higher NO3 based product, if the tap is high in NO3, use the higher PO4 product and so forth.

It takes several months for Osomocoat to dissolve.
This is what we used for many lab studies to add N and P, generally we add a Hoagland's (solution modified) to hydroponic solutions. The rate of NH4 is very low and bacteria likely convert most of it to NO3.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## plantbrain

BTW, the rates of diffusion are faster with warmer temps, and temp is the main issue for the rate for Osmocoat or similar products, long term release ferts etc.

Since our aquariums are temp stable, the osmocoat diffusion rates should be stable.
If you add a layer of osmocoat to the sediment, then ideally you would not be able to measure the water column ppm's, as the roots would ideally get it before then, so you'd have to take a sample with a pipette slowly and extract some water down near the product.

There's plenty if nutrients, you just can not measure it easily.
 As fast as it's released, it's used up. This works pretty well in lower light tanks and provides some relief if you skip the water column dosing or dose a lot to the water column. But if you run a leaner tank, then limitations can arise much easier and this stuff becomes much more a concern.

Still, it does provide a simple safe mild back up for nutrients.
and you can always add more if you wish..........

Try the cat litter, works well and is cheap, look up Dan Quankenbush. He promoted it a lot.
It's a tad messy, and compared to ADA AS, I like the ADA look much better and the ADA has more nutrients, less mess.


Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Spider Pig

Just to clarify Tom, are you saying that the use of the NH4 as the main source of nitrogen is not problematic as long as the other nutrients are in excess and so non- limiting? Did you find much benefit in using osmocoat in non-nutrient substrate and did you have any algae issues with it?


----------



## JamesC

My 200 litre Akadama tank has been running for nearly a year now and I can report that all is well with the Akadama holding up well will no noticeable crumbling. When I do another tank with Akadama I will make one change in that I will add a sprinkling of Osmocote in with the sphagnum moss to provide some extra NPK for the plant roots. Osmocote is a slow release fertiliser that comes in small capsules.

I have read recently that Akadama is being used for pond purification systems and also for removing water pollutants from places like road run offs. It apparently has a great capacity for absorbing all types of compounds and not only cations as I initially thought. One compound that it has a great capacity to absorb is phosphate which is why it is used in pond purification systems. Could also explain why at first when I measured phosphate levels in my tank they always appeared to be zero. This is great for the plants if Akadama is used with a water column dosing method as the Akadama will provide nutrients for the roots on a long term basis. Another bonus which I have noticed at first is how clear the water was, most likely due to the absorption properties of the Akadama.

James


----------



## Themuleous

So the PO4 I added to the water when I soaked my akadama might not have been such a waste after all?  

I know what you mean about water clarity, even end on, the water in my 4ft is crystal clear.

Sam


----------



## Nick16

JamesC said:
			
		

> My 200 litre Akadama tank has been running for nearly a year now and I can report that all is well with the Akadama holding up well will no noticeable crumbling. When I do another tank with Akadama I will make one change in that I will add a sprinkling of Osmocote in with the sphagnum moss to provide some extra NPK for the plant roots. Osmocote is a slow release fertiliser that comes in small capsules.
> 
> I have read recently that Akadama is being used for pond purification systems and also for removing water pollutants from places like road run offs. It apparently has a great capacity for absorbing all types of compounds and not only cations as I initially thought. One compound that it has a great capacity to absorb is phosphate which is why it is used in pond purification systems. Could also explain why at first when I measured phosphate levels in my tank they always appeared to be zero. This is great for the plants if Akadama is used with a water column dosing method as the Akadama will provide nutrients for the roots on a long term basis. Another bonus which I have noticed at first is how clear the water was, most likely due to the absorption properties of the Akadama.
> 
> James


 where can you get osmocote from? and is it good?  never heard of it or sphagnum moss!


----------



## Themuleous

Google is your friend 

http://www.greenfingers.com/superstore/ ... id=PP0051A

Sam


----------



## Nick16

i was looking at garden direct but wasnt sure if that was the right stuff! but ts cheaper from green fingers anyway, cheers sam.

i am planning my 4 foot at the mo and have jbl aqua basis and then akadama. but i was wondering is there other powders that i should use to help the growth like osmocote for example. i have black gravel which will cap the akadama in between 'the islands'

where would osmocote go?  is there any other things i should get? and where would they go?

so far its

bottom: jbl aquabasis
osmocote in here?
middle: akadama
top: Black gravel


----------



## Themuleous

To be honest, all these 'additives' are great and all, but I've got 100% akadama in two tanks and both grow plants perfectly.  That's not to say adding things couldn't make the situation 'better' but it does mean that its not 100% necessary to achieve good plant growth.

Sam


----------



## Nick16

il stick with the osmocote then!, well what layer would it go? ontop of the aquabasis?  also how far will 1kg go in a 120x40 tank?


----------



## JamesC

Akadama can be used fine by itself or you can add the following to help speed things up. You can either add all or some of them as it doesnt really matter.

In first go:

*Sprinkling of sphagnum moss peat* - provides acidic conditions favourable to the bacteria and plant's roots.
*Sprinkling of Osmocate* - provides NPK (including ammonia)
*Mulm* - to biologically kick start the substrate. Best poured onto half inch of Akadama to prevent too much disturbance to peat and osmocote
*Akadama* - add to required depth

Rather than using the peat and osmocote you could use a commercial product like Tropica Plant Substrate.




> il stick with the osmocote then!, well what layer would it go? ontop of the aquabasis? also how far will 1kg go in a 120x40 tank?


Best mixed in with it. 1kg is loads. You should only need a couple of handfulls at most. 

HTH
James


----------



## Spider Pig

Can you use the sphagnum moss peat straight from the bag or do you need to treat it some way before using it in an aquarium- i.e. does it have any nasties that need to be boiled out? 
Is there any specific brand that's good for aquaria or is it all pretty much the same stuff?
Also if you're using the peat moss and the osmocoat is there any need to load the akadama with ferts like soaking in nitrates etc.? I assume not.

Sorry for the mass of questions but for a big tank this looks like the way ahead as ADA is way too pricey for me at the moment.


----------



## Themuleous

Spider Pig said:
			
		

> for a big tank this looks like the way ahead as ADA is way too pricey for me at the moment.



Exactly the reason I used it in my 4ft


----------



## JamesC

Spider Pig said:
			
		

> Can you use the sphagnum moss peat straight from the bag or do you need to treat it some way before using it in an aquarium- i.e. does it have any nasties that need to be boiled out?
> Is there any specific brand that's good for aquaria or is it all pretty much the same stuff?
> Also if you're using the peat moss and the osmocoat is there any need to load the akadama with ferts like soaking in nitrates etc.? I assume not.


Yes use straight from the bag.
I just brought some off ebay. Make sure it is sphagnum moss peat and not just sphagnum moss.
Soaking the akadama in calcium and magnesium sulphate is to reduce the initial KH drop and not to load the akadama with nutrients. I've now learnt that akadama absorbs PO4 big time so you could add some of that if you choose to pre soak. A lot of people don't bother pre soaking and just do plenty of water changes in the early days to help prevent to much of a KH drop.

James


----------



## Ed Seeley

JamesC said:
			
		

> Soaking the akadama in calcium and magnesium sulphate is to reduce the initial KH drop and not to load the akadama with nutrients.
> 
> James



Sorry to be picky (or dim   ) here James, but how will soaking it in Calcium and magnesium sulphate reduce the initial KH drop?  KH is a measure of the carbonate hardness, Ca and Mg are measured via GH, general hardness.  Wouldn't soaking in CaCO3 or KCO3 be better to act as a buffer, or even putting a small bag of aragonite in the tank or filter during the initial phases of the tank's life?


----------



## Nick16

i think i will just mix the osmocate with the jbl. and then put the akadama on the top and do plenty of water changes! 
what is mulm?


----------



## Goodygumdrops

Cr*p out of your filter!


----------



## Nick16

just get the sponges and squeeze it onto the substrate? woud i do this before the akadama goes ontop? would i do this even if im going to grow stuff emersed? i want to try growing things like glosso for a week or 2 without much water and see what happens, but im not sure that i understand the whole emersed thing as it cannot be sone with stems as well? is that right?


----------



## Themuleous

Basically yes.  Or if you have non-planted tanks, use the water you get from a gravel vac as this is laden this mulm 

I would put it on top of the aquabasis and under the akadama, in the 'middle' of the substrate.

I would do it even it you want emersed growth first.

Emersed growth would technically work with stems its just that they wouldn't have the water to support them.  It works well with glosso and HC as the plants dont need this support.  Emersed is how tropica grow their plants 

Sam


----------



## Nick16

is there a massive benefit with this, as i want to order some glosso and probably some pogo helferi, but then i want lots of stems like rotala and alternanthera and e.tenellus. so i would have to place two orders and subsequently pay more for the postage. if there is no massive advantage it might as well not bother. but i like a challenge and i could do the foreground with these emersed and then do the rest as a later date. is it worth growing glosso and PH emersed?


----------



## JamesC

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> Sorry to be picky (or dim   ) here James, but how will soaking it in Calcium and magnesium sulphate reduce the initial KH drop?  KH is a measure of the carbonate hardness, Ca and Mg are measured via GH, general hardness.  Wouldn't soaking in CaCO3 or KCO3 be better to act as a buffer, or even putting a small bag of aragonite in the tank or filter during the initial phases of the tank's life?



First post fifth paragraph says:


> Akadama has a very good CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) value which means that it will pull out of the water any cations, eg Mg++, Ca++, K+, etc and hold onto these making them available for the plant's roots. The Akadama works similar to a cation exchange resin used in domestic water systems for softening water except rather than exchange magnesium and calcium for sodium ions, it exchanges magnesium, calcium, etc for hydrogen ions. The exchanged hydrogen ions then react with any bicarbonates in the water causing the KH and pH to drop. Also due to magnesium and calcium being held by the Akadama the GH will drop as well. After a period of time and a few water changes the water parameters will settle down.



Does that make sense? It's the hydrogen ions (acid) being exchanged for Ca and Mg that causes the KH drop. Pre loading the akadama with Ca and Mg greatly reduces the exchange once placed in the tank. I tested this on two tanks - one untreated and one treated. Can't remember the exact KH but it was around 6 and it dropped to zero overnight in the untreated akadama and stayed the same in the treated stuff.

James


----------



## Ed Seeley

JamesC said:
			
		

> Ed Seeley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to be picky (or dim   ) here James, but how will soaking it in Calcium and magnesium sulphate reduce the initial KH drop?  KH is a measure of the carbonate hardness, Ca and Mg are measured via GH, general hardness.  Wouldn't soaking in CaCO3 or KCO3 be better to act as a buffer, or even putting a small bag of aragonite in the tank or filter during the initial phases of the tank's life?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First post fifth paragraph says:
> 
> 
> 
> Akadama has a very good CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) value which means that it will pull out of the water any cations, eg Mg++, Ca++, K+, etc and hold onto these making them available for the plant's roots. The Akadama works similar to a cation exchange resin used in domestic water systems for softening water except rather than exchange magnesium and calcium for sodium ions, it exchanges magnesium, calcium, etc for hydrogen ions. The exchanged hydrogen ions then react with any bicarbonates in the water causing the KH and pH to drop. Also due to magnesium and calcium being held by the Akadama the GH will drop as well. After a period of time and a few water changes the water parameters will settle down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does that make sense? It's the hydrogen ions (acid) being exchanged for Ca and Mg that causes the KH drop. Pre loading the akadama with Ca and Mg greatly reduces the exchange once placed in the tank. I tested this on two tanks - one untreated and one treated. Can't remember the exact KH but it was around 6 and it dropped to zero overnight in the untreated akadama and stayed the same in the treated stuff.
> 
> James
Click to expand...


Ah right James.  Yes makes perfect sense.  Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Spider Pig

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure if you've answered this already or elsewhere, but how have you found this substrate compare to commercial ones like ADA?


----------



## JamesC

ADA Aqua Soil wins with no contest. I just refuse to pay the amount of money that they want for it so look for cheaper alternatives. With other substrates I'm not so sure there is such a great difference, but having a substrate which has nutrients is always going to be of benefit. Substrates like Eco Complete only have iron and other trace elements and don't contain any N or P, so these will need to be added via the water column or root tabs. A lot of other planted tank substrates don't really contain that much even though the manufacturer's like to claim they do. Mainly they have iron. Very few if any have N and P. ADA being the exception.

IMHO nutrient rich substrates are only of benefit in the early days of a planted tank. After six months to a year there probably won't be that much difference between them and Akadama.

James


----------



## Antoni

OK, I have been reading twice this topic and one question appear to me:
If the absorbing power of akadama so good, is it not a good idea to add a thin layer of earthworm castings underneath (as Tom Barr mentioned somewhere )and to solve ina cheap way the supply of nutrients? 
I'm sure that the osmocote will release nutrients under control and the EC will not, but as I can't find osmocote over here is this not a good idea?

Also is it not going to be possible to provide all the needed nutrients by water column fertilization? Im going to use EI as a method. Or maybe there will be not enough water circulation through the akadama?


----------



## Themuleous

Yes, water column fert dosing can provide enough ferts for the plants.  Having a plant substrate just gives you added security that the plants will be able to access all the nutrients they need.  It is also very helpful should you intend to use heavy root feeders like ech species.

Sam


----------



## JamesC

I don't see any reason why you can't use earthworn castings. I've never used them myself but know they used to be popular some years ago. My main concern is that they might be a bit messy and clog the Akadama. I just chose Osmocote because of it's slow release properties. There are plenty of other manufacturers who also produce slow release fertiliser capsules. Maybe have a look in a local garden centre. They aren't actually required as my first test tank I setup just used Akadama and all the plants thrived in it.

If you are dosing EI then yes all the nutrients can be supplied via the water column. Akadama will absorb a large amount of various nutrients from the water column making them available for the plant's roots, but this takes time. Having an initial supply of substrate nutrients is always going to be beneficial. I would guess that there should be good water circulation through the Akadama as it is very porous and also because of it's grain size

James


----------



## Antoni

Thank you very much!
Well I will have a look around the garden shops and will see what can be found.
I'm using EC at my recent scapes and I'm pretty happy with it, but it will be better if there is a product with slow release properties.
What about the tablets that the specialized brands as Dupla, JBL and so on are selling?

Regards


----------



## Themuleous

Where abouts do you live?


----------



## Antoni

In Sofia, Bulgaria


----------



## Nick16

i have been to sofia. and pomorie and plovdiv.


----------



## Themuleous

Oh right, sorry I cant help with sourcing the Akadama then!

Sam


----------



## Antoni

No problem at all!
I have found osmocote, but in a wholesaler and now waiting for him to figure a way to give me a small amount like 2 lbs.
Nick I hope you liked it?!


----------



## Themuleous

Your best bet for akadama is a good bonsai shop, if they dont have it in, Im sure they could order it, it seems to be highly regarded in the bonsai world, although they think its expensive!!! 

Sam


----------



## Antoni

Actually I have found Akadama, my problem is finding osmocote over here. Only wholesalers seems to have it and they sell to the big garden centers. I also didn't understand why we need the sphagnum moss in conjunction with osmocote? Can we not use it on it's own or with regular peat?

Regards


----------



## JamesC

The sphagnum moss peat isn't added to provide nutrients but to provide ideal conditions for bacteria and nutrient uptake by the roots. You could use any peat if you wanted.

James


----------



## MikeC

I looking at trying either tropica or jbl aquabasis substrate under akadama, my question is would the Shohin Double Red Line Hard Quality be better for plants like hc.


----------



## Antoni

I have been reading a lot last few days and I still can't figure out, what is the best base mix for Akadama:
If we are looking at the AS and PS combination it is well known that AS is similar to Akadama, with one major advantige the advantige of the AS - it is nutrient rich.
About the PS - some claim it is needed addition to AS, other seems to does not see any advantages of using it with nutrient rich top layer as AS.
The  assumption for the contents of PS is: lava(porous material), peat and some slow released NPK+micros )

So logically I was thinking what would be the best bottom layer for the Akadama? Maybe something analogues to PS?
As James has told it is necessary to add some peat and osmocote or its alternative. So my question is, do we need to add some lava or pumice as well, to give the bacteria cosy home? Or it is useless, because it is going to clog after some time?
I have been reading carefully the recommendations of Dupla for setting a tank and the interesting thing is the close visual relation of their substrate. As it is nutrient pour they add laterite to the bottom layer + some ferts with Macro and micro elements.  :?: 

Regards


----------



## aaronnorth

How is this stuff for sloping? I know aquasoil is very good as it stays in shape pretty well.

Thanks.


----------



## Themuleous

Antoni Dimitrov said:
			
		

> I have been reading a lot last few days and I still can't figure out, what is the best base mix for Akadama:



I've been using 100% akadama with great results, so you dont have to have anything under it.  It also depends on what scape you are going to have as very deep areas probably won't be reached by many plants, and what plants you intend to use, things like glosso and HC have very shallow roots so wont get to much deeper than and inch or two.  If it were me and I def wanted/needed something underneath I'd get a cheaper substrate like tropica which is designed to be a base layer.  That said a shallow layer or AS wouldn't cost the earth on most tanks, but you would have the initial NH3 spike to deal with.



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> How is this stuff for sloping? I know aquasoil is very good as it stays in shape pretty well.



I've managed to get fairly steep slopes from it.  Say perhaps 30 degrees or so.

Sam


----------



## joanne

I can just ask is this the right moss I need 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPHAGNUM-MOSS-PEA ... 240%3A1318


----------



## JamesC

That's the stuff

James


----------



## joanne

Thanks have just ordered a bag

Is this Osmocote ok to use or is it a different one i need dont need alot as it will be used on a 65l tank

http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/osmocote- ... -5g-p-1625


----------



## JamesC

You could use those but would have to break them up first as them come stuck together. I just popped into B&Q and brought the Miracle Grow version which is pretty much the same thing.

James


----------



## joanne

Thanks for the help just want to make sure i buy the right thing is this the Miracle Grow version

http://www.wilkinsonplus.com/invt/0240321


----------



## JamesC

Should be fine. This is the exact one I have - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/miraclegro-controlled-release-plant-food-p-3474. I use it in the garden so didn't mind buying loads.

James


----------



## joanne

Thanks will nip to B&Q only down the road from me and like you say will use the rest in the garden.

Do you just add a little bit to the tank?


----------



## JamesC

Didn't actually use it in my current setup as I only learnt about it after I set it up. I have used these - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/miraclegro-controlled-release-plant-food-tablets-33-x-5g-tablet-p-1620 - like root tabs around my crypts and echinodorus. They grow very healthy but can't say for sure that it's because of the tabs, but as they are fairly cheap I just add them anyway.

As for how much to add, I'd say a good sprinkling if that makes any sense. As long as you don't put loads in I can't really see it making a great difference. Put them in the bottom with the peat as any nutrient will drift up slowly. They do contain some ammonium but the Akadama will lock this up making it available for the plants later.

James


----------



## JamesM

I'm reading Amano's NA book 1 atm, and one interesting fact is Takashi Amano has used Akadama as a substrate since the 70's, way before he realised plants needed co2 instead of o2 (after an experiment with soda water whilst drunk  ).

I wish I could source it locally though, as I'd love to try it in my big tank at some point.


----------



## Nick16

i got mine from ebay mate. 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14-Litres-Aka...6|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

excellent stuff. i didnt even wash mine!


----------



## JamesM

Nick16 said:
			
		

> i got mine from ebay mate.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/14-Litres-Aka...6|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50
> 
> excellent stuff. i didnt even wash mine!


There's a chance the tank could be up to 5x2x2' so I want it cheaper than that!


----------



## Themuleous

Ive got two bags you could have cheap?

Sam


----------



## JamesM

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Ive got two bags you could have cheap?
> 
> Sam


PM sent!


----------



## aaronnorth

JamesM said:
			
		

> Themuleous said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ive got two bags you could have cheap?
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
> 
> PM sent!
Click to expand...


if you need more, try kaizen bonsai. Last time i checked they were selling 14l bags for Â£18.50 delivered, although i am not sure what you call cheap


----------



## MasterMoriarty

Hi James
Great setup BTW.
I'm about to re-do my 120 l with Akadama and have been reading this thread with interest.
Is there any reason why dry ferts couldn't be spread over the layer of peat instead of Osmocote?
Or even using both together to give an initial boost to the Akadama from the ferts and a longer term supply from the Osmocote?
If this could be done, how much of the dry ferts do you think would be needed?


----------



## JamesC

MasterMoriarty said:
			
		

> Is there any reason why dry ferts couldn't be spread over the layer of peat instead of Osmocote?


It's not something I've ever done or would recommend doing as the high concentrations may 'burn' the plant's roots. Osmocote is pretty cheap and works for several months so would be a lot better to use. ADA uses somthing similar in their Power Sand as do Tropica in their capsules. Chances are that using powders, they would soon dissole and find their way into the water column anyway.

James


----------



## leemonk

Wow........

Massively interesting thread. I was pointed here by George Farmer from my thread: 

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6695&p=74322#p74322

I'd like to ask some questions if I may as some of the terms and phrases here are way over my GSCE chemistry knowledge   

Firstly, I am starting over (to a degree) in my tank. What this means is that I want to replace my current substrate with something else and then to immediately put my fish back in. I say this because I beleive from what I have read already this may influence the materials I would need to use.

I have a Juwel 180 rio tank.

I beleive I should be following this path:

1st Layer - Tropica Susbstrate - Though I need some advice on the depth of this.
2nd Layer - Sphagnum Moss Peat
3rd Layer -   A spinkling of Osmocote or Miracle Grow tabs (I have the small ball ones as shown in someone elses post already - are these okay).
4th Layer - Mulm - Should I dilute this first ie mix with a little water and fill the tank a little or should it be more of a texture that sits ontop of the tropica?
5th Layer - Akadama.

Is the above correct, both in terms of order and need?

Firstly, will this be okay to immediately put fish back into? and what will i need to watch out for over the following week. (ps. I have London tap water ie very hard)
Secondly, I don't want to soak the Akadama for a week, so I am assuming that the Tropica and the Miracle grow will provide all the nutrients needed?
Thirdly, having read your (James) comment regarding nutrient boosts only really being needed on a new set up, say in a years time, can I simply put in a 'few' more root tabs or will it need lots or maybe none?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Regards

Lee


----------



## JamesC

Hi Lee,

Tropica Plant Substrate already contains sphagnum moss peat or something very similar so you can drop that. It also contains N and P nutrients so you can also drop the osmocote. You could though if you wanted still add a sprinkling of osmocote in with the Tropica Plant Substrate to give it an extra boost. I've seen someone else do this. 
Mulm is always a good thing to add to a new substrate as it gives it a great kick start. The more solid it is the better so don't dilute and add it to the Tropica Substrate as well.
I've never used Tropica Plant Substrate so I'm afraid I can't be much help there.

Once the Akadama is in you can add the fish straight back in. This is what I did with no probs. You will find the KH of your tank water will drop quite a bit for a few weeks. Just keep doing plenty of water changes and this should help stabilise things out.

You sholud have plenty of nutrients for a while in the substrate so you don't have to worry too much there. After a while you can use the Miracle Grow tablets which is what I use as I don't have the mega bucks to spend on the off the shelf products.

I've never really been that convinced with expensive substrates. Yes at the start they are great, but after a year I can't believe there is that much difference between them and a cheap fired clay like Akadama. Depends what your goals are? If you want to constantly create new scapes and are happy changing (and spending the money) on the substrate then Aqua Soil or Nature Soil are the way to go, but if like me you plan on keeping the same tank going for a few years then a plain fired clay substrate is a better option IMHO.

James


----------



## JamesC

This tank uses Akadama topped with quartz gravel. Just goes to show you don't need fancy substrates to grow plants well.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/library/60449-march-2009-tank-month-alberto-sosa.html

James


----------



## leemonk

Hey James,

Thanks for the quick response!

One thing I would like to ask based on your reply. If I were to drop the Tropica Plant substrate, what would I need instread?

The reason I ask is not nessesarily a money issue its more of a learning thing. If I put in tropica, then hey presto, I'm half way there without learning anything, but if I look for alternatives that produce as good a result, then I have learnt something new.

If Tropica is dead cheap, then needless to say, its stands to reason that I should get it, however, if its not on the cheap side then its best to learn something and save money!

Also, do you have any advice on the depths I might need?

Regards

Lee


----------



## leemonk

I finaly got some of the Akadama. I got it from this place http://www.windybankbonsai.co.uk/ which is based in Carshalton, which might work for you Surrey / South & West London people!

Nice chap and some great examples of Bonsai.

It  was Â£11 per bag, so a little more expensive than other places, but it was about 30 mins around the corner for me.

Interestingly, the chap selling the stuff was hugely apologetic about the increase in price (used to be Â£8), which we then had a laugh about once I told him what I was using it for and the cost of an actual 'Aquatic' soil...... I guess its all relative.

Lee


----------



## Bluedave

Akadema is a great substrate, I had a 500 litre set up a few years ago with Akadema, plants really did flourish - also mixed some laterite in with it as I was using mostly Ech. species.

I would encourage people to give it a go if they can get hold of it.


----------



## lincsflier

Hi James just looking at using EC as have 4 bags at work sitting doing nothing that I can have   .  As the tank is 8 x 2 x 2 need to try to keep costs down where possible would it work if I used Akadama as a bulking with the EC or better to sandwich it as it were between two layers of Akadama.

Or is there another route that I haven't mentioned?.

Cheers
Dave


----------



## JamesC

Mixing substrates always looks rubbish after a while, especially a black one and a red/brown one. EC really doesn't contain much in the way of nutrients as people seem to think. I would go for one or the other.

James


----------



## lincsflier

Thanks James will go for the Akadama.

Cheers
Dave


----------



## a1Matt

I purchased some Akadama recently, but have yet put it in my tank (160l,1wpg,low tech - no water changes).  I'd appreciate it if someone (am thinking James C of course, thankyou for this awesome thread   ) could cast an eye over my plan of attack and point out anything that looks a bit doolally...

What could I use as an alternative to peat as a base layer (in conjunction with osmocote granules). I was thinking pond soil, will this fulfill the same purpose?
The reason I do not want to use peat is that I can not find any! (at least not in small quantities).  I also understand that it is not sustainable.

My non water change response to the KH drop I am likely to encounter is:
Make up a weak Potassium Bicarbonate solution and trickle it in a few times a day until things stabilise.  I figure that will be the easiest way to raise KH without stressing the shrimp and fish unduly.  I have a persistaltic pump kicking around, so this is the 'least effort method' for me as well.

If my GH drops then I will add some gypsum to the solution and trickle that in as well.

I am presoaking with gypsum already by the way, in order to minimise any KH drop.


----------



## JamesC

a1Matt said:
			
		

> What could I use as an alternative to peat as a base layer (in conjunction with osmocote granules). I was thinking pond soil, will this fulfill the same purpose?


The peat is there to provide favourable conditions for the plant's roots and not for nutrients, even though it does provide some. Pond soil won't work as it's not acidic. You only need a fine sprinkling of peat. The idea of the peat and mulm combined is that it kick starts the substrate into action. It's not imperative that you do use it, it does help though in the early days of a substrates life. This is what I used - SPHAGNUM MOSS PEAT FOR CARNIVOROUS PLANTS 900 GRAMS and is quite cheap.



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> My non water change response to the KH drop I am likely to encounter is:
> Make up a weak Potassium Bicarbonate solution and trickle it in a few times a day until things stabilise.  I figure that will be the easiest way to raise KH without stressing the shrimp and fish unduly.  I have a persistaltic pump kicking around, so this is the 'least effort method' for me as well.


I'd be careful adding bicarb as it may cause even more problems. Your reasoning is the same as ADA's. Aqua Soil does a similar thing to the water's KH as Akadama. Brighty K contains potassium carbonate which buffers the water to compensate.



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> If my GH drops then I will add some gypsum to the solution and trickle that in as well.


Should be fine



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> I am presoaking with gypsum already by the way, in order to minimise any KH drop.


You may actually find that the KH hardly changes if you presoak it.

James


----------



## a1Matt

Thanks James.

I will stick to the sphagmum moss peat as per your advice - not a problem at all now you have supplied me with a link to it 

That is good to know that I can prevent\minimise my KH drop.  Maybe a better plan is... once i have finished presoaking drain off all the water, and add fresh tap water.  leave it for a day and see if the KH drops.  If it does just repeat the soaking and testing process.

This is going off topic now, and is a lengthy question, but if you have time I'd appreciate your input again...

As I am running no water changes, if my plants need something I have to put it in the water.  I currently dose the water column weekly with:

Monopotassium phosphate
potassium nitrate
AE trace mix
gypsum and epsom salts. (The calcium is a new addition to my regime, I never needed this when I was running EI. calcium and phosphate go in on a separate day to everything else)

I get a nagging feeling that something is still missing though.  Two things spring to mind:

1/ Chloride (I had no idea plants needed this until reading your remineralising recipe).
2/ KH - mine is slowly but surely dropping and at some point (about 3 months at the current rate) will hit 0.

I am at a loss about what further to add, how much and how often. or indeed whether I am worrying about nothing   

Would a sensible approach be to make up a 25l container of RO water with your remineralising recipe, and then use this to top up my tank with weekly (I only add 1 or 2 litres a week from evaporation losses, or 10 litres if I clean the filter that week).

Should I alter the recipe in anyway as this is top up only?
Should I make the concentration stronger so that it can remineralise the whole tank (160l) and not just the 2l I am adding.


(my first thought was to just dry dose Calcium Chloride and potassium bicarbonate\carbonate weekly)
(I want to use RO for topup and not tap, as I can then leave it sitting ready for use in a dark cupboard ready for use, tap I let sit for a day or two to get rid of CO2 in it which I find inconvenient)


----------



## JamesC

I've never really done a tank with no water changes so can't really answer your questions to a great extent. Yes you could add calcium and magnesium sulphates but remember that the sulphates will just keep on increasing over time. May or may not be a problem, I don't know. If your KH is running low the adding a bit of calcium carbonate won't do any harm. It's a sod to dissolve as it's almost insoluble, but you should only need a small bit. Or as you suggested calcium chloride and potassium carbonate.
Do you have fish? Reason being is that fish food contains a lot of goodies that plants like.

I wouldn't worry too much. Give it a go and see what happens. It's going to be a learning curve which hopefully you'll be able to share with the rest of us.

James


----------



## a1Matt

Thanks James I appreciate your candid response.  I think I will start adding some calcium chloride and potassium carbonate (in tiny amounts).  Do not expect feedback for a couple of months, as it can take that long to see results from dosing changes in my tank! I will be switching over to akadama at the same time, so it will not be a controllled experiment.

An observation I can share already is...
I always expected that with no Co2 the plants would experience 'dwarfism' and indeed they did. My Swords and crypts halved in size.  
Then when I started adding calcium regularly the plants grew halfway in size between the 'non-Co2 dwarf size', and the 'Co2 size'.
They also grew x2 faster than expected with non Co2 but nowhere near x10 co2 level growth rates.
They were in visibly good health before and after calcium.
I assume this means the plants were working hard to convert chemicals internally without the calcium and not concentrating on growing.

So.... I expect that if adding calcium chloride and potassium carbonate has any effect that it will be a further increase growth rates and or the size that the plant grow to.  

Other non co2 observations are that crypts and swords are more stable and their colours are slightly richer.  Stems are just as healthy, but they suffer from dwarfism more, and growth rates are more affected.

When I say no water changes, I mean no regular water changes. For peace of mind I think I will carry out 50% every 6 months or thereabouts, this will remove anything that might be building up slowly over a long time (like the excess sulphates for example).


I have fish, but very few - I only feed them a tiny amount once a week or so at the moment (I check regularly and they are all fat)


----------



## GreenNeedle

James

I remember Sam had problems with HC in Akadama.  I just read a thread on APC where someone is asking why HC isn't growing yet everything else is and they are using akadama.

Do you think there could be a link?  No idea what sort of link it would be if there was one though. lol

AC


----------



## JamesC

Sam has now changed over to Eco Complete and still his HC doesn't grow. I had HC growing in Akadama and it grew so fast and furious that I got fed up with it and ditched the whole lot. Akadama is relatively new as a substrate here in the UK but over in the far east it has been used for a while. Even Amano used it until he started selling his own Aqua Soil.

James


----------



## GreenNeedle

That clears that one then 


AC


----------



## Bluedave

JamesC said:
			
		

> Akadama is relatively new as a substrate here in the UK but over in the far east it has been used for a while.



Thats quite interesting, I was using it about five years ago, got it from my LFS but they haven't stocked it since! Where are people getting it from now and for how much? I might try it again.


----------



## aaronnorth

Bluedave said:
			
		

> JamesC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Akadama is relatively new as a substrate here in the UK but over in the far east it has been used for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats quite interesting, I was using it about five years ago, got it from my LFS but they haven't stocked it since! Where are people getting it from now and for how much? I might try it again.
Click to expand...


Try Kaizen Bonsai.
I think 14l is about Â£18 posted


----------



## Bluedave

Cheers


----------



## davidcmadrid

James i think i screwed up i have bought Spagnum moss from the bonzai shop and not Spagnum moss peat. I was planning to use it with some Osmocote which i have on order. How thickly or thinly did you spread the osmocote ?


----------



## JamesC

It's difficult to describe. Not so thick that it's like a mat. A good sprinkling of it is the best way I can describe it. It's not critical unless you put loads too much in.

James


----------



## zigur

Hello James!

I would like to thank you that you introduced me the akadama. I started to rescpae my tank because of your journal, and it  was a very big help to me when I rescaped my tank. the outcome is unbelievable, my plants have never been so healthy and beautiful. here's a picture of my tank, this is my acknowledgement for you.





Thanks James!


----------



## Nick16

thats a lovely tank, if you were to put something like some blxya japonica in front of your stems but behind the HC, it would look stunning. Its amazing what akadama and dosing the water column can do.


----------



## zigur

Nick16 said:
			
		

> thats a lovely tank, if you were to put something like some blxya japonica in front of your stems but behind the HC, it would look stunning. Its amazing what akadama and dosing the water column can do.



thanks very much. it's not HC but glossostigma. i don't want to take too much space in James' topic, i just wanted to say thanks. I'm also planning to make a journal on my own tank.


----------



## JamesC

zigur said:
			
		

> Hello James!
> 
> I would like to thank you that you introduced me the akadama. I started to rescpae my tank because of your journal, and it  was a very big help to me when I rescaped my tank. the outcome is unbelievable, my plants have never been so healthy and beautiful. here's a picture of my tank, this is my acknowledgement for you.
> 
> Thanks James!


It's great to hear back from people who have success with Akadama.
Great looking tank. Look forward to the journal.

Thanks
James


----------



## Egmel

Hi all, just ordered 28L of this and I'm looking to pre-treat it.

My theory is that I'll do a week long soak in ferts and calcium carbonate (will this be ok?) then a week of daily water changes in a trug bucket. 

Any idea on how much I'll need to use of everything?

James used the following for 3 bags.
120g Calcium carbonate
105g Magnesium sulphate
30g Potassium sulphate

So shall I just go for ~2/3 quantities?


----------



## thefrench

And how is the akadama more than a year later ? 
  Is it still useable and does it have still effect on the kH/gH ?

 Sorry for my English !  And I don't know if you use the abreviations gh and kh...


----------



## JamesC

Egmel said:
			
		

> Hi all, just ordered 28L of this and I'm looking to pre-treat it.
> 
> My theory is that I'll do a week long soak in ferts and calcium carbonate (will this be ok?) then a week of daily water changes in a trug bucket.
> 
> Any idea on how much I'll need to use of everything?
> 
> James used the following for 3 bags.
> 120g Calcium carbonate
> 105g Magnesium sulphate
> 30g Potassium sulphate
> 
> So shall I just go for ~2/3 quantities?


To be honest I wouldn't bother treating the Akadama and just do plenty of water changes in the initial weeks. When I did mine I overdid the amounts used and found it more hassle than it was worth. If your local tap water is hard then just soak it in this for a few days if you want. Many people have used it straight with no reported problems that I have heard of. Remember that Akadama has been around for yonks before I stumbled across it and it has always just been used straight. If you still wish to pretreat though then use about a quarter of the amounts that I used. Calcium sulphate is probably the best thing to use as calcium carbonate is virtually insoluble.

James


----------



## JamesC

thefrench said:
			
		

> And how is the akadama more than a year later ?
> Is it still useable and does it have still effect on the kH/gH ?
> 
> Sorry for my English !  And I don't know if you use the abreviations gh and kh...


Yes it's still very useable and is still in my tank. The effect on GH and KH only happens in the first few weeks of use. After then it seems to have little effect that I've noticed.

Your English is fine and better than a lot of people's on here. Welcome to the forum
James


----------



## thefrench

Thank you !
 ok, so the gh and the kh have diminished at the beginning and increased a little next ?
 What was you parameters first and now ? 
   Sorry if you have already mentioned it ...


----------



## Egmel

JamesC said:
			
		

> Egmel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all, just ordered 28L of this and I'm looking to pre-treat it.
> 
> My theory is that I'll do a week long soak in ferts and calcium carbonate (will this be ok?) then a week of daily water changes in a trug bucket.
> <snip/>
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I wouldn't bother treating the Akadama and just do plenty of water changes in the initial weeks. <snip/> Remember that Akadama has been around for yonks before I stumbled across it and it has always just been used straight. <snip/>
Click to expand...

Thanks James, the reason I was going to soak it in advance was to reduce the need to do the water changes on the tank.  This strip down will be coinciding with my new house purchase/move and (sod's law) the submission deadline of my PhD thesis so I wanted to make it as painless as possible.  The tank is at my sister's with me currently and she'll let me leave it there for about a week after the house goes through and I move out, but anything more will probably be pushing it.

I'm moving back into a thames water area, so the water should be nice and hard, I'll soak it for a week or so doing daily water changes which will be the rinsing too  and then just shove it in and keep an eye on everything 

Thanks again


----------



## a1Matt

JamesC said:
			
		

> It's great to hear back from people who have success with Akadama.



I made the switch a couple of months ago. Things are growing really well, I am very pleased with it aesthetically as well - it looks really good to me, is much easier to plant in than gravel, easier to create slopes with as well.

So   for Akadama from me.

I presoaked it for months in calcium sulphate and potassium phosphate. Rinsed it throughly, then added it and have not done a single water change since (low tech tank). I put my livestock back in straight after filling with water and did not lose any.


My GH went up to 12 and my KH went down to 0 overnight. Everything is still growing and swimming OK so I have let it stay like this.  Although I suspect my GH is slowly dropping. I will test it one of these days to see. I top up with tap water so after a year or so(?) I might register some KH again   Joking apart when everything has grown in I plan to experiment with raising the KH to see if it has any effect on plant growth versus 0KH


----------



## thefrench

thanks for your informations about the gh/kh


----------



## squiggley

I have akadama in both of my tanks and the difference is unbelievable. One tank is holding fine whilst the other has crumbled into fine bits and will have to be replaced. Both bags came from the same place ordered at the same time.

I still like the look and use of akadama so will reorder another bag to re-do the tank.


----------



## Craig

Hi all, this is my first post so i hope its in the right place.
I have recently been looking for some reasonably priced akadama for my first aqauscape and found that bonsaiuk.co.uk
are selling 3 x 14 litre bags of double line hard akadama for Â£38 delivered,   which i thought was quite a good price as ada aqua soil is Â£36 approx for 1 x 9 litre bag without delivery.  
This is an excellent site by the way.
Hope this is of some help.

Cheers     Craig.


----------



## jonnyjr

for those needing less there is also this 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/28-Litres-Akadama ... 516wt_1165

28 litres Â£19


----------



## Egmel

That's where I got mine from, arrived quickly and is exactly as described.

Will start soaking it as soon as I have an exchange date


----------



## Mark Webb

Seems to be quite a bit of evidence to suggest a fair chance of buying a bad batch of Akadema. I had planned to use 90 litres of this product in a large tank but having second thoughts  :? 

More bad experiences here


----------



## jonnyjr

Although it hasn't been in my tank for long, my akadama seems to be holding up well.


----------



## jarthel

to aussie forum members: where can you get this? 

thank you


----------



## a1Matt

jarthel said:
			
		

> to aussie forum members: where can you get this?
> 
> thank you



I would start by asking any local bonsai nurseries if they have it.


----------



## Jon1706

Hi everyone, I was going to use ADA products but I found it cost far too much and Im on a budget. So  I am looking at putting something under my sand   ( will be using a edge strip at he front and side of my tank so you cant see the substrate.) I am caught between using this or cat litter,as I've read good things about both of these, any info to which one is better would be great. This is how I will set up the substrate.  

1th, Sphagnum Moss Peat
2nd, Miracle Grow tabs ( broken ones )
3rd, Akadama / cat litter, Mulm and actived carbon from my filter (The reason why I want to use it is because it should have a nice layer of  bacteria growing on it. Also I will be replacing the carbon in my filter when I move)
4th, Akadama / cat litter
5th, The play sand which is in the tank now.

Tank specs Are a 60l tank , with low light hoping to get a OTL lighting system which will take it to 1 wpg (2x 15w T8 ), I will be using easy carbo and tpn+ liquid or maybe go back to easy profito. With a 20% water change weekly. I am going to keep the pants I have now but would like to use HC and one other plant not sure which yet some kind of grass.I wasn't sure on how much Of the moss and Akadama I would need? I've found this on ebay. Here is a link : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... ink:top:en  (the moss) And In was thinking a 10l bag of Akadama or cat litter. Here is a link for the Akadama http://www.bonsaiuk.co.uk/akadama-doubl ... fm8a01flj7
 The water where I live, is hard water (selby area), and I was planing on leaving to soak for a week.  Then do a week of 30% or 50 % daily water changes before adding it to the tank. 
Any help would be really greatful Ty Jon.


----------



## fourmations

hi all

ive read this thread and am going to try akadama
thanks for the thread james!

heres my quick questions!

i dose ei and have read all about the fact that strictly speaking
you dont need a fertilised substrate but it seems worth putting something in there

i don't want soil underneath, i like the idea of the osmorite
could i just shake a few of those down before the akadama,
i really only want one substrate material not layers

could i seed it with gravel and/or sand from an established tank

maybe a little seeded sand/gravel, then mulm, then a shake of osmorite
then akadama

rgds

4


----------



## a1Matt

Hi 4,

It will work fine with no base layer, just the akadama by itself.

Everything else is optional.

osmocote - for ferts.
peat - favourable conditions for bacteria to grow. i.e. substrate establishes itself quicker with this.
mulm\sand\old substrate - some starting bacteria. like you say for seeding.

I would go for just mulm and not sand or gravel, as they are likely to mix with the akadama over time and look a bit naff. Just my opinion.

I added osmocote\\peat\mulm to mine and where the akadama is less than one inch the base layers works there way to the surface over time.


----------



## fourmations

hi all

thanks for the tips

any rough idea how much osmocoat to use
145l - 90cm x 42cm footprint

btw this caught my eye in the shop im getting the akadama
http://www.yorkbonsai.co.uk/naruko-slow ... g-i26.html

its a slow release npk bonsai soil, would this be a good base under the akadama?
says npk is 5 5 5 (whatever that means!) or could it even replace the akadama altogether

Matt, i am still tempted to use my flourite sand as it will stay at the bottom
and wont work up through the akadama, its a good bacteria source and a nice rooting base

4

niall


----------



## a1Matt

I'd hazard a guess that the bonsai feed would not be an alternative to akadama as it dissolves over time.
You might well be able to use it instead of osmocoat. I'd stick with osmocoat myself.

At a guess you would use about a small handful of osmocoat on your tank... maybe 50grams or thereabouts.
I just spent a fiver on a pack and was happy to have way too much as it is so handy for houseplants, pots of herbs, etc (I grew a 3 foot tall basil plant thanks to it last summer   ) and has such a long shelf life.

Fair do's on keeping your flourite as a base layer, it would not work for me (I would have it in a mess within a  few months), but it sounds like it would for you


----------



## fourmations

cheers matt

i'm assuming the sand will always work its way down again if i disturbed it
seeing as its finer than the akadama

it does if you cap gravel with sand
but then again some of the akadama is quite fine

mmmm, i have a think about this one

thanks for the osmocoat tip, i had no idea how much to use

rgds

4


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





> says npk is 5 5 5 (whatever that means!)


 The  5:5:5 just refers to the ratio, and total amount of nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) & potassium (K) in the fertiliser.  
In this case "5" for all which means that it is a relatively low in nutrients (and will have a lot of inert carrier), ammonium nitrate (NH3NO3) for example would be 35:0:0, and potassium nitrate (KNO3) 13:0:38.

You also need to have a look at how the "5" is expressed, nitrogen is usually expressed as N, however phosphorus can be listed as phosphorus pentoxide ((P2O5) or as P, and potassium as K or as potassium oxide (K2O). 

If it's as the phosphorus pentoxide, that is P2 (31+31) + O5 (16+16+16+16+16) = (62) + (78) = RMM 140 = 62/140 = 44.3% so 2.21 P rather than 5. The slow release means that it isn't all available (in solution instantly like the dry salts in EI), but released over time, this could be because it is resin coated like Osmocote or it could be something like "hoof and horn or bonemeal where the material has to be microbially degraded to release the nutrients.

"Growmore" is 7:7:7 (as the 2 oxides) and moderately slow release so a much cheaper and fairly similar option  to the bonsai fertiliser. These don't include the other elements required for plant growth (Mg, Fe, etc) so they aren't replacements for Osmocote. If you want a cheaper Osmocote replacement, I've used "Vitax Q4" http://vitax.co.uk/?page_id=185/&category=28&product_id=63and this will perform the role adequately in a high CEC substrate (like Akadama or any other (calcined) clay).

Personally, unless it was a huge aquarium I'd use one of the slower release formulations of "Osmocote" http://www.scottsprofessional.com/en/osmocote-exact.html, how much you use is up to you, and how much CO2 and light you have, and whether you intend dose the water column with nutrients as well. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## zig

Good link there 4 might try that myself, thanks for the info dw very interesting.


----------



## gzylo

Hi a bit hijacking but anyone kept Corydoras with akadama? I mean do they do a lot of mess with substrate keeping in mind that its quite light.


Thanks
Bart


----------



## a1Matt

I have corydoras pygmaeus and no problems.
Not sure if that counts though, as they are not your average size cory


----------



## fourmations

hi all

i picked up a slow release osmocoat-type fert today
as it was on offer

its 13:13:13, that sound okay?

ta

4


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
Yes it will almost certainly be all right. Does it say which formula it is? (they range from 6 weeks - 18 months). The 13 - 13 - 13 is probably as the 2 oxides, so 13% N, approx 6% P and  approx 11% K (potassium oxide is about 83% potassium  by weight), with traces?
cheers Darrel


----------



## Kosh42-EFG

Interesting read... Thanks for this... 

Akadama may be the answer to a cheaper substrate for my planned 120cm x 60cm tank instead of ADA AS... I have an NPT at the minute so departing from topsoil and gravel will be a shock to the system to start with...



			
				fourmations said:
			
		

> btw this caught my eye in the shop im getting the akadama
> http://www.yorkbonsai.co.uk/naruko-slow ... g-i26.html



I've used York Bonsai a few times in the past for bonsai stuff... One man show but he's very good...

And just as an aside, I now grow my Bonsai in Tesco cat litter as its cheaper than Akadama


----------



## gzylo

a1Matt said:
			
		

> I have corydoras pygmaeus and no problems.
> Not sure if that counts though, as they are not your average size cory




Hi I have 6 of them atm but they do not really count 

I was thinking about real ones 


Thanks
Bart


----------



## chilled84

Hiya James, You mention a strongh GH solution?? Where can i obtain this? Or do you just make it?

Ps How do i use the gh solution, water to GH solution ratio?  

Cheers mate, Yours Chilled84


----------



## JamesC

GH solution is really just calcium and magnesium salts, or you could just use calcium. Tapwater contains these so the cheapest and easiest way is to just soak in tapwater for a week or two doing a water change every now and again if you want.

Many people don't bother with doing this and just plonk it straight in their tanks. Next time I'm not going to bother treating it either as I don't like giving myself extra work. I was just being over cautious when I first did it as I didn't know what to expect. 

James


----------



## FishBeast

jarthel said:
			
		

> to aussie forum members: where can you get this?
> 
> thank you



I havent been able to source it yet. I am sure that it is here somewhere because I see it being discussed on bonsai forums. WIll let you know when I find out.

A few years ago I stumbled upon a substance in a spray bottle which is used in hot climates by spraying onto the leaves of garden plants in order to reduce transpiration in order to make the plant use less water. The idea being so that you can go on holidays and not have to worry about your plants dying. It says that it coats the leaves in silicon and that it will last up to 6 months.

So I am wondering what you guys would think about spraying this onto osmocote in order to slow the release process down for longer than say 6 months?

The best equivilent I found would be this:
http://www.yates.com.au/products/saving ... dy-to-use/


----------



## Ejack

Thanks for this great post James,

I'm just abut to rescapre my whole tank and I'm going with Akadama, along with the Miracle Gro Osmocoat you have recommended and Sphagnum peat moss.

I have one question that I was wondering if someone could help out with, It is worth sprinkling some of my old substrate on top of the sphagnum peat moss before adding the Akadam? Am I right to pressume that the old substrate will have good bacteria in it which can help kick start the bacteria process?


----------



## a1Matt

FishBeast said:
			
		

> A few years ago I stumbled upon a substance in a spray bottle which is used in hot climates by spraying onto the leaves of garden plants in order to reduce transpiration in order to make the plant use less water. The idea being so that you can go on holidays and not have to worry about your plants dying. It says that it coats the leaves in silicon and that it will last up to 6 months.
> 
> So I am wondering what you guys would think about spraying this onto osmocote in order to slow the release process down for longer than say 6 months?
> 
> The best equivilent I found would be this:
> http://www.yates.com.au/products/saving ... dy-to-use/



I have no idea if that is a good thing to do or not, but I see where you are coming from.
Another alternative is to add more osmocoat every few months.
You can make ice cubes with osmocoat in them, then bury them in the substrate and let them defrost there.


----------



## lil-lynx

Hello were can i buy Akadama ? local garden centre ?


----------



## a1Matt

lil-lynx said:
			
		

> Hello were can i buy Akadama ? local garden centre ?



I got mine from a local Bonsai nursery.


----------



## Westyggx

lil-lynx said:
			
		

> Hello were can i buy Akadama ? local garden centre ?



There are a few ebay sellers that sell this.


----------



## Garuf

Does anyone know if Hortag has been used? It's sold as a substrate for orchids by the litre, claims to be made in almost the same way as aquasoil etc ei, baked clay and organics. It seems very cheap too, has anyone experience?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
Garuf it will probably be OK, try contacting "Lytag", they make it <http://www.lytag.net/applications/greenroofs.aspx>. "Lytag" is calcined pulverised fly ash, but Hortag looks more like a calcined clay. You can use any calcined clay, its CEC will depend on the original clay used, and the temperature it was calcined at. As a general rule the higher the temperature the more physically stable it is, but as it becomes more stable it loses its CEC.

From what I remember I think that the smaller grade Hortag  will sink immediately, but the larger grade may float. 

I've not used Hortag, but I've used Hydroleca as a biological media for trickle filters, and it is really excellent for this. However you can't use Hydroleca as a substrate, because it floats. European aquarists use Hydroleca/Hydroton/Hortag in filters, and Vivarium keepers use it a lot as a media for frogs etc.  I think Hortag is calcined at a lower temperature than Hydroleca so it should all eventually sink and will have a higher CEC. Hortag is a UK trade name.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Westyggx

Hi All,

If anyone from Manchester is looking for some of this i found a person selling it in Bolton for Â£11 a bag (14ltr) send me a pm if you want his number.

Cheers


----------



## silverteen

i was hoping someone could recommend a compost or peat i could use that is aquarium safe that i want to use as a path throuhg a forest in an aquascape, so i brown colour desired?


----------



## madlan

Hi all,

I'm thinking of using Akadama on my new setup - a Fluval Profile 1200 (323 litres)

_Width of tank (cm) x length of tank (cm) x thickness of substrate required (cm) / 1000 ( 120W x 47D x 65H)_
The above gives me 56.4 Litres for 10cm thick substrate, the tank is deep so this should scale ok visually)

Has anyone found a local supplier of Akadama in Hertfordshire? (I’m going to need 4 bags so postage could be a problem)
How much Sphagnum moss peat will I need? Is 900g enough?
Also, how much Osmocote do I use?

Thanks
Alan


----------



## madlan

I just picked up some Akadama from Little Woods Bonsai in Enfield, he said the same - company has gone under and production has stopped so I think it's true.


----------



## jamie_99

Just got some akadama from ebay. Christ, is this stuff dirty? Washed it out atleast 5 or 6 times, and it's still a bit cloudy. Doesn't seem to be very hard, which is a bit worrying, can squash it between your fingers. Will see how it goes..


----------



## ceg4048

Umm...I think it's important for people to realize that Akadama is dirty because it is dirt. It is not "produced" at all but is simply dug out of the ground in someone's backyard in Japan. The word akadama is Japanese for "red ball soil", so it's just dug up and sifted to get various size balls. It's actually a type of pumice formed by volcanic activity. It's probably not a good idea to wash this very much.

it's entirely possible that it's the company that has the contract to import the sediment that went out of business, perhaps a dispute with the suppliers in Japan over pricing. It might also be possible that the Japanese decide that the natural resource is running out and that they should stop or slow the mining of it, kind of like the situation with peat bogs.

If your bonsai shop has none left then any calcined clay or pumice product will work just as well as Akadama. The point JamesC was making in his post is that any simple, unassuming clay or pumice product, fortified with readily available fertilizer can do just as good a job of growing plants as the more elaborate and hideously expensive commercial products.

Cheers,


----------



## flygja

If you have the English version of Amano's latest photobook, Glass no Naka no Daishizen, Amano himself has used Akadama in the past before creating his own range of Aquasoils


----------



## GreenNeedle

Is this stuff akadama or a suitable alternative?

http://www.3ch.co.uk/growing-media/othe ... d_368.html

AC


----------



## ceg4048

Yep, this is just a calcined clay. It's just as good - as long as it doesn't float.

Cheers,


----------



## greenjar

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Is this stuff akadama or a suitable alternative?
> 
> http://www.3ch.co.uk/growing-media/othe ... d_368.html
> 
> AC



Are you planning on getting any of this? Looks rather interesting?

Perhaps someone has tried this already. If you do purchase some or anybody else has tried this please let us know how you get on. Does it float? could it be crushed  down a little? just comments on general performance would be welcome


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
There are 2 grades of these sorts of calcined clay material. This one looks like "Hydroleca", which is great for "wet and dry" filters, but floats. You can get a slightly denser grade of "Hydroton" that definitely sinks, but I don't know of a source for it in the UK. Seramis <http://www.seramisuk.co.uk/products.html> is another possibility, it is calcined montmorillonite, and definitely sinks, it is very similar in colour to the Moler clay based cat litter media.

cheers Darrel


----------



## GreenNeedle

Its just that there are no bonsai shops in Lincoln but there are 3 'hydroponics' shops.

I may buy a small amount to see what happens. Would be soaking for a month first anyway.

AC


----------



## Egmel

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> It's just as good - as long as it doesn't float.


*Remembers the day all the hydrocela carefully chosen as a substrate in her tank floated to the surface as she filled it with water...*


----------



## Richard Dowling

Ive heard that Akadama have gone bust because of the Nuclear problems in Japan. I was trying to buy some from my local Bonsai guy and he said he cant get hold of it anymore becuase its starting to get rarer. I managed to get a bag from Ebay but I wonder how long it will be available for if this is true


----------



## tovtm

this is another cheap alternative in the plante tank I'm trying to get my head around so I can use it. a few questions I have which may be already answered but looking through so many pages I didnt see then.

in first post it says "The other choice is to pre-treat the Akadama with a strong GH solution to speed up this process out of the tank. After a week soaking, rinse well and use in the tank. Any KH drop should now be minimised." is this gh solution available from a LFS if so is that what it's called?

I would be looking at putting it into my tank as soon as possible but I have discus so obviously only put it in once it's fine to. so I'm guessing putting it straight in the tank would be out of the question without doing countless WC. 

I have sand substrate now so would it be beneficial to put this soil straight on top of that to kick start the bacterira in the soil?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,
Akadama is a clay, and clay minerals have the ability to hold on to and exchange ions. All salts (products of the neutralization reaction of an acid and a base), when they dissolve, go into solution as cations and anions, in the case of NaCl (sodium chloride or salt, hence "salts") this is Na+ the sodium ion a cation, and Cl-, the chloride ion, an anion.

The ability of any compound to hold on to and exchange cations is called its Cation Exchange Capacity or CEC (it will also have an Anion Exchange Capacity - AEC).

Sand has no CEC, but clay minerals have high CECs, this is why we like them for the planted tank, in the case of Akadama it is clay from an area which is naturally poor in "bases" or alkaline ions such as calcium and magnesium. The technical term is that it has a low "percent base saturation", and it means that most of the exchange sites naturally have an H+ ion. When you add Akadama to a solution containing K+, Ca2+, Mg2+ ions (your tank water), the H+ ion will be exchanged for one of the other cations, and the solution may become more acid. If you soak the Akadama in a solution of calcium chloride or magnesium sulphate, the H+ ions will be exchanges for Ca2+ or Mg2+ ions before it gets in the tank. The dGH we measure is the amount of 2+ ions, therefore solutions of calcium chloride and/or magnesium sulphate are the "strong GH" solutions it talks about.

Monovalent ions (like K+) will also replace H+ ions, but they don't add any dGH. This is actually a 2 way process and those ions can be replaced by H+ ions etc and become available to the plant as the concentration of the ions change around the negatively - charged exchange sites of the clay mineral.  This is the "LYOTROPIC SERIES":
 most tightly bound H+ = Al3+ > Ca2+ > Mg2+ > K+ = NH4+ > Na+ least tightly bound.

Adding large amounts of one cation will replace others, regardless of their position in the lyotropic series. For example Na+ could replace Ca2+ on the mineral's exchange sites if sufficient concentration of Na+ existed in tank water. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## plantbrain

Cooked clay is VERY different from wet raw clay.

Flourite is also cooked clay, so is SMS, a common and widely used product for baseball fields in the USA.

I do not think they have particularly good CEC, I've measured CEC a few times, we mostly send samples out to the USDA Lab. 

Jamie did a good run down on sediments and CEC is the most relevant parameter in the listing, note, the chemical present does not imply it is bioavailable in the analysis he did.

Turface is the same as SMS today, brand name change is all.

http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm

I think you might find some of this old school data useful, we looked at many things back in the mid 1990's on this.
Yolo loam is the soil type I have present, it's a common soil type in the rice patties we have near me, and yes, CA produces a LOT of RICE!!!


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## MrLarner

i've just read through this whole thread, and yes my eyes are now stinging   
but im so glad i've found this thread.
i'll be ordering some akadama as soon as i get an answer to my question.
i see you guys all mentioning what to put under the akadama etc etc,
but because i'll be using the akadama on top of my eco complete substrate, would i need to put anything else under it?
i'm also planning to put some TNC plugs into the eco-complete before i put the akadama on top.
so any help would be great so i can get ordering.
(just need to make sure this will be ok on top of eco-complete)


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## foxfish

Dont forget that akadama will produce a very fine cloud of - well, watered down clay - every time it is disturbed!
I really mean you need to witness this phenomenon, your whole tank will appear as a mud bath if you decide to move a plant


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## MrLarner

I wont be moving any plants, i dont plan to have a huge planted tank, im aiming for something along the lines of this.....
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/112930266
just going to use lava rock as oliver knott has in this pic, and then get a nice carpet going and then plant a few small plants around the lava rock.


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## a1Matt

I do get a fine cloud of dust when I move plants in my akadama, but if I pull the plants slowly it is a tiny cloud, and is completely gone within a minute or so.


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## Antipofish

Corki said:
			
		

> I’ve just heard from my local Bonsai shop the company that produces Akadama has folded and stopped production. Can anyone verify this?




Yes, but Im not sure if it is "going under" in the true sense of a failing business.  This stuff is mined within 50km of the recent nuclear problem in Japan apparently and as such can no longer be mined.     At least thats what my local Bonsai Guy told me.


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## Mark Webb

I have just setup this Shrimp tank using Akadama and used it without any rinsing. Using an undergravel filter powered by a cannister filter and the water is gin clear.


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## foxfish

That look great but the akadama will break down in time & this might cause problems with a UGF?
keep us informed......


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## Mark Webb

foxfish said:
			
		

> That look great but the akadama will break down in time & this might cause problems with a UGF?
> keep us informed......



Thanks. In an attempt to avoid the UGF blocking I placed some filter media over it before adding the Akadama, so hopefully that will delay that.


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## Antipofish

Mark Webb said:
			
		

> I have just setup this Shrimp tank using Akadama and used it without any rinsing. Using an undergravel filter powered by a cannister filter and the water is gin clear.




Mark remind me where you got your Akadama ?  I think I pm'd you but have lost the reply.  Its becoming scarce now !!


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## Mark Webb

I got it here    http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/soil.asp

I called a couple of weeks ago and they do have it but under a different name I believe.


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## Antipofish

Mark Webb said:
			
		

> I got it here    http://www.lvbonsai.co.uk/soil.asp
> 
> I called a couple of weeks ago and they do have it but under a different name I believe.




thanks mate


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## RobS

Hey people, 

I've been looking at this thread and would like to try this product on my new tank Juwel 260 Vision. 

Are people still able to get hold of the product? I've contact the website above and hopefully they will get back to me shortly.  Would anyone have a recommendation on how many bags/Kg/Ltrs would roughly need for the 260L tank with a base of around 2inches or so. 

Many Thanks,

Rob


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## Iain Sutherland

http://www.greendragonbonsai.co.uk stock it as do many others, google akadama uk and lots of bonsai shops pop up.  2 bags was enough for my 300ltr.

To be honest though i had 2 different types and there was no difference in the how hard they are.


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## GillesF

Hi guys

How light is Akadama? Is it more like ADA Aquasoil or JBL Manado?

Cheers
Gilles


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## Yo-han

Definitely more aqua soil type, but the light colored version.


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## Iain Sutherland

Nothing is as light as manado! Akadama is pretty heavy so no issue planting.


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## GillesF

Thanks. As long as it's not like Manado I'm happy!


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## danielgphelps

This is great, thanks for the tip!  ADA amazonia can break the bank.


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## virgojavier

Quick question quys. I have a 55l tank which I am planning to rescape next weekend.
I went to my local bonsai store this morning to get a bag of Akadama, mission completed.
The plan is to flood Akadama with water tomorrow in a bucket, my current KH is 2, GH 9, pH 6.5. 
I am keeping in my tank 2 red rams, 8 neons tetra and 4 corydoras. Should I do the bit with making Akadama a bit more KH friendly?
I am planning of cleaning the tank, then adding this which I just purchased:
 ADA Super Clear Tourmaline Bacter 100 Penac P Penac W | eBay
Then I am going to add some peat. Should I bother with Osmocote? or ADA mix will be enough?
I have few different mesh size sieves, so I will sieve my Akadama and then place the biggest granules at the bottom simulating ADA Power Sand.
Then the rest of the stuff and the finest sieved portion on the top.
What you guys think about this?
Regards
Lucas


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## Amir

hi 
i want to know what is the difference betwin the quality of ada aqua soil amazonia and ista aqua soil


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## nduli

quick question but how long will it take for the akadama to settle down, absorb water and air to be released?
I saw alot of movement in the hardscape and lots of air released after flooding and can still see some pockets sat around so wondered whether i need to actively stir it up a little or will it be settled in a week or so? i will need to re-scape the wood arrangement anyway given the moement but just wanted an indication of whether i should consider doing it now or in a week or two as i normally need to plan ahead given the hectic social lives of my kids


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## Lindy

I use a barbeque skewer to poke my substrate to release large pockets of air. I've used cat litter and ada amazonia and africana and all of them have stayed light.


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## Lindy

That is why I always weight my wood now as the substrate can't support it in any way.


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## Ian_lawton

Does anybody know if i can buy this in a shop somewhere around manchester? would like to buy it tomorrow rather than order from ebay?

Thanks in advance Ian


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## nduli

Ian_lawton said:


> Does anybody know if i can buy this in a shop somewhere around manchester? would like to buy it tomorrow rather than order from ebay?
> 
> Thanks in advance Ian


 
ian - i didn't find anywhere, i am north manchester and ended up buying off the net.


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## Ian_lawton

nduli said:


> ian - i didn't find anywhere, i am north manchester and ended up buying off the net.


 
Same been all over on sat to finish doing the tank getting supplies but couldn't find any orderd it yesterday


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## nduli

ldcgroomer said:


> That is why I always weight my wood now as the substrate can't support it in any way.


 
cheers lindy thats what i ended up doing at the weekend. still not happy though. i can see a further rescape at the weekend. which will annoy my better half massively....


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## merlin2005

Really interesting and long lived thread, I used Akadama back in 2003-5 when keeping FW, since moved to Marine and now back to FW. I used it as both a substrate and filter media in a fx5. I can assure those who doubt the breakdown quality of a decent brand that it will not breakdown if you get a quality hard brand. As a filter media its excellent, given it was in an FX5.. theres not much more of a test given the water flow thru it.
My new build planted tank will use a base layer of Hard Line Akadama Bonsai Soil with a seachem flourite topper. Having used Akadama many yrs ago, I can vouch for its fantastic qualities, Seachem is without doubt a star brand in the marine world, lets see how it fairs in FW


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## merlin2005

I actually changed my mind and ordered TMC Nutrasoil instead of Flourite.. simply for the buffering of the PH...


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## id_darren

Osmocote Sphagnum moss Are these the right products ? , because there are fresh and dried moss and tons of osmocote brands with different release times.

Thank you in advance.


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## Kev_M

How much of a pain is it to clean this stuff? I'm looking at using it in new set-up but the inhabitants will likely dig a bit so I'll need it to be completely dust free before it goes in.


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## Jaybles

Any update on the above question? I've been wondering the same thing.


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## Kev_M

I wasted loads of time trying to clean it before giving up and chucking it in. I wouldn't advise bothering as it seems to clear pretty quickly after being disturbed.


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## Jaybles

Ah, that's good to know.


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## kempster2000

Bought a couple of bags of akadama this week and have had them soaking for about 24 hrs and they've already turned to mush. I think I know the answer to this question but can I still use it? Also anyone know where I can buy some stuff that will last


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## Manu

kempster2000 said:


> Bought a couple of bags of akadama this week and have had them soaking for about 24 hrs and they've already turned to mush. I think I know the answer to this question but can I still use it? Also anyone know where I can buy some stuff that will last


Hi Kempster,

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Here's the link to akadama I bought, it's really good quality 

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/262202695000

Just as a warning, it's best to sieve and get rid of the biggest "granules". It will make planting easier. And also, rinsing is more important than soaking. It takes a while to get rid of the dust... And don't worry if the water is getting slightly cloudy when flooding the tank, it clears very quickly.

Cheers,
Manu


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## Daneland

Manu said:


> Hi Kempster,
> 
> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Here's the link to akadama I bought, it's really good quality
> 
> http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/262202695000
> 
> Just as a warning, it's best to sieve and get rid of the biggest "granules". It will make planting easier. And also, rinsing is more important than soaking. It takes a while to get rid of the dust... And don't worry if the water is getting slightly cloudy when flooding the tank, it clears very quickly.
> 
> Cheers,
> Manu


I had the same brand from a different supplier.Particle size was 3-6 mm
http://www.yorkbonsai.co.uk/akadama-bonsai-soil-14-litres-i78.html
It is really good


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## nduli

Not sure the mushing should happen, but others with experience might explain why. I think I have the same as the guys above, no mush in any of the tanks I have. Tescos cat litter another great very cheap source for it. Again , give it a good rinse to get rid of perfume and most  of the dust.


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## kempster2000

Cheers Manu, might get somemore


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## kempster2000

Just checked the one I bought and it's a different brand, it is however described as super hard heat treated so I wouldn't expect it to dissolve so easily


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## Nelson

I think the Akadama in the original post is no longer available,unless there's old stock around. 
Ibaraki brand doesn't seem as hard to me.
Where are you Kempster ?.


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## zozo

There are different types of akadama in hardness, you should ask for hard or extra hard 
I believe i used the hard and have it in there for almost a year and still feels relatively hard. It also doesn't realy cloud that much if you top it off with a decent top layer even less. I didn't wash it, didn't sieve it, droped it straight from the sack in the tank.. But i dry strarted it, that might prevent clouding, because it gives the dusty clay particals time to bond. 

You could use a kind of same colored gravel as cap..

If you like a black cap, as i did, better dont go for akadama it always will come back up. In case of black take Fuji Sand as base layer toped with a black gravel or clay.  Fuji sand has same structure and also good cec as akadama has but is much harder because it's kind of lava rock instead of clay. (Don't cap with fuji sand if you plan loaches or catfish etc., it's to sharp and no good.)


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## kempster2000

I'm living in Dorset but work in the midlands


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## Nelson

Was just wondering if there was somewhere close to you.
I used to use Kaizen http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/bonsai-soil/bonsai-growing-media-straights


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## Glenn Birtwistle

What are people's thoughts on rinsing akadama just to remove the loose dust?  I've already rinsed one bag and found a kg or 2 of mud at the bottom so I think I'm glad that's not going into the tank.


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## zozo

Akadama is a non baked clay like mineral vulcanic soil and if it is stated to be baked, as some bags say it probably is very short periode more for sterilization. Or it might point to it's vulcanic origine baked by nature while it was formed, for commercial purpose. (Like they sell sea salt mined in switserland? a land without a sea).. But the hardnes Akadama comes in, is from a different layer, deeper mined is more compact harder Akadama than the shallow mined layers. Realy baked clay would be more like Seramis that is a 1200°C baked clay pellet.

Anyway even the hard Akadama is still relatively soft and gets bit softer when soaked.. But if not disturbed to much it holds its structure very well.. I have it in the tank for over 2 years now and it still is a relative solid grain. It only falls apart if i rub it between my fingers. Or if i stick a finger deep into the soil i feel the deeper akadama compact into a sucking clay like mush under my fingers pressure. So rinsing akadama is actualy useless, because your disturbing it to much and it will keep dusting, than you put it in the tank and disturb it again even more with scaping and planting it and it'll powder again.. 

If you do not want the dust from the bag in the tank, than put a portion in a strainer, shake it gently to get most of the dust out and put it dry into the tank. Once you have your desired layer in there, scape it gently. Use a brush and do not use to much force to push the rocks or wood into it. After you are done with that use a spray bottle to soak it. The dust that came of during the scaping part, will settle deeper down while it slowly drains with spraying. Let it settle for a night give the akadama some time to saturate and soak in all the water to it's core.. Plant it and spray it again and gently fill the tank. I my opinion Akadama is perfect aquarium soil, deeper rooting plants like crypts and sword love it.. In my tanks the same age crypts grow beter, larger in shorter periode in the softer akadama than it does in the harder lava based substrate.


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## Glenn Birtwistle

Cheers for that. Well it's all done now,  a relatively thin layer of jbl aquabasis underneath and a couple of inches of the akadama ramped up towards the back.
The tanks clearing nicely but I'm struggling to keep plants down which I'm a touch dissapointed about. 
The blyxa japonica has finally gone down but it feels like it'll come up with the slightest touch, and I'll be surprised if take cuba or the monte carlo is still down in the morning. 
Any tips for planting?


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## zozo

Blyxa is know to be a rather difficult plant to keep down in any substrate because of it's shape and buoyancy. But once it has grown some roots it'll stay down. HC and MC also are not the easiest little plants, takes some time and patience, plant it in little portions not to close together. For these types of plants a powder type substrate works best but still is a pain staking aggrivation game. If you try to plant it to close together you push the neighbour out with pushing the other in, takes some experience. In my own experience for hc and mc a dry start works even beter.


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## fourmations

hi glenn

it is tricky all right, i ended up capping my akadama with a thin layer of tesco cat litter
as i was running out but thy planted better in this, i ended up almost burying the HC 
but it will grow out, heres mine after a month MC at front HC behind main centre root
be patient and dont be afraid to plant as deep as you need to

cheers


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## Glenn Birtwistle

That's great Cheers.  Well at least I know now that it will plant. Do the roots grow down into the akadama and keep it stable once it's got hold?


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## fourmations

Hi, yes they will,
I planted loads of the HC & MC as i got huge portions and was thinking a lot of it would come loose
thats why I have such a good spread after only a month
theres actually too much cuba now that its spreading, ill need to thin it out i reckon,
the akadama wont stop Cuba doing what it has tendency of doing though, which is uprooting itself when it gets too thick
keep it trimmed and press it down now and then to release the trapped air!

cheers


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## Glenn Birtwistle

That looks really good, well the mc has been down a fortnight now and it's stayed put . The only plants that are still lifting are the single strands of umbrosum and it doesn't look great. Not sure if it's me being impatient but there's not a massive amount of visible growth. The co2 is dialled in so the dc's are green at lights on but I still have the led's running fairly low while the plants are young. They're running at 40% ramping up to 80% for a 2 hr window mid photoperiod (6 HRS) I wanted to get the plants established without driving the light too hard just to try and keep the algae at bay


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## Stryda

Looking at setting up a 100 gallon tank,  anyone know best place to get some Akadama from?
Thanks in advance


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





Stryda said:


> Looking at setting up a 100 gallon tank,  anyone know best place to get some Akadama from?
> Thanks in advance


Probably from a <"Bonsai place">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Stryda

Cheers Darrel,  Ive seen that one on eBay,  just wanted to double check it wasn't one of the 'mushy' varieties


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





Stryda said:


> just wanted to double check it wasn't one of the 'mushy' varieties


I'm not sure, that one is described as "hard", but you would need to find a review on a bonsai site. 

The moler clay granules they use in cat litter (and as an absorbent for spills) don't degrade over time. 

You can buy them in 30 litre bags from <"http://www.frost.co.uk/industrial-oil-spill-danish-pink-absorbent-granules-compound-absorbing.html">.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo

Stryda said:


> double check it wasn't one of the 'mushy' varieties



Akadama is a natural product, surface mined. baged and shipped.. There are mainly 2 varieties, soft and hard, soft comes from top layer, hard from the deeper layers, the deeper they dig the harder it gets. Probalbly the batches rated super hard you now and then find in the trade. But still hardness is very relative and hard to say how hard hard realy is, obviously. But your best chances not getting a mushy variety you beter go for a hard version.. I've been using it for several years now, 2 tanks are over 2 years old and still i have little to complain about, sure it gets softer over time, i guess all clay finaly does if not baked into ceramics..  The more you poke around in it the mushier it will get.. My 50 cents, are you the constant rescaping type, not sure if Akadama is the best choice... For long term low tech setups it is ideal and very consistent soil..


----------



## Stryda

With this scape its hopefully going to be a setup and leave well alone, so should be fine for my use. Guess Ill take a stab at it and see what happens! Thanks


----------



## JMorgan

zozo said:


> Akadama is a natural product, surface mined. baged and shipped.. There are mainly 2 varieties, soft and hard, soft comes from top layer, hard from the deeper layers, the deeper they dig the harder it gets. Probalbly the batches rated super hard you now and then find in the trade. But still hardness is very relative and hard to say how hard hard realy is, obviously. But your best chances not getting a mushy variety you beter go for a hard version.. I've been using it for several years now, 2 tanks are over 2 years old and still i have little to complain about, sure it gets softer over time, i guess all clay finaly does if not baked into ceramics..  The more you poke around in it the mushier it will get.. My 50 cents, are you the constant rescaping type, not sure if Akadama is the best choice... For long term low tech setups it is ideal and very consistent soil..



Hi Marcel - you seem to have a lot of experience using akadama in the same low tech set up I have now so I'm aiming this at you, (but of course I'd value input from anyone with direct experience) - have you any experience of using akadama with an under gravel filter?

I've had this 200L tank with akadama for over a year and I'm quite happy with it except I'm considering swapping the current Fluval 406 (which I need for a 330 L tank) for a UGF because I'm running a reasonably powerful air pump in my fish room already, so I might as well make use of it if possible.

I'm wondering though whether the fine particulates in Akadama would interfere with/ clog up a UGF pretty quickly? Really the question is whether I can use the existing akadama substrate + its existing bacterial/archaea colonies or if I'm going to have to start from scratch to set up the UGF, relying as it does on substrate based colonies? The tank is very heavily planted so I'm not that bothered either way . . . I'll be mixing a lot of the existing biological filter material with whatever substrate I end up using.

cheers


----------



## Edvet

Why a UGF?


----------



## JMorgan

Edvet said:


> Why a UGF?


Because my fish room's costing quite a lot in electricity and I'm already running a 20W air pump on a closed loop which supplies air to all the other tanks. If I can get to a point where one 20W air pump is doing all my filtration I'll save quite a bit - over the course of a year since its all running 24/7 obviously. By my calculations anything running at 20W 24/7 costs roughly £25 a year  . . .  that used to be one per tank so 8 x 25 or £200 just on filtration before adding in lights. With my (relatively new) air pump all my tanks now cost £25 per year to filter  That allows me to reasonably consider installing more tanks . . .  most will probably be either just standalone sponge filters or HMF's, but since UGF's also run on air I'm playing with those too.

So far I'm very pleased and so are my crypts


----------



## zozo

JMorgan said:


> have you any experience of using akadama with an under gravel filter?



Hi J
No, i never used UGF in any way. I don't like the idea of using it same as UG heating.. I like my stuff accesible if it comes to that.  So i actualy never even gave it a thought and never realy closely looked at any under gravel filter concept. I only know they are air driven and that's where stoped reading about it any further, i realy dislike the sound of humming airpumps, rather use a venturi if i ever need air bubbles and actualy don't like that sound either.  

So i have no idea how Akadama performs and holds in these conditions.


----------



## JMorgan

Thanks Marcel - appreciate your point of view.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





JMorgan said:


> for a UGF because I'm running a reasonably powerful air pump in my fish room already, so I might as well make use of it if possible.





JMorgan said:


> That allows me to reasonably consider installing more tanks . . . most will probably be either just standalone sponge filters or HMF's,


I agree with the others, air is fine but I  would definitely use the HMF (or a sponge block) and <"jetlifter combo">, rather than a UGF.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Chris Tinker

loving the cheaper options.. thanks for this sticky


----------



## Barbara Turner

Does anyone have a link to the original research paper by Tom Barr?  Has anyone repeated the experiment adding EI ferts to the test?


----------



## dean

Are Tesco still selling the clay cat litter ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo

dean said:


> Are Tesco still selling the clay cat litter ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



In case they don't, Kitty Litter from clay is Sodium Bentonite.. 

Amazon product

A good search and you might find it in smaller quantities...









						Bentonite - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Whagwan

I've just started a tank with osmocote doped Kayadama capped with black sand so hope it works well!


----------

