# Inline co2 Diffuser - help!



## mark4785 (22 Sep 2011)

Hi,

I've recently put up for sale my old aquarium here and will soon be picking up a new larger 120 litre aquarium which I intend to set-up as a planted aquarium with external filter and co2 introduction via a inline diffuser. The questions I have are as follows:

1. Which external filter system will best accomodate an internal diffuser?
2. How is the internal diffuser connected to such a system?

I spoke to an employee at my LFS about inline diffusers and he was trying to sell me a separate unit in addition to an external filter as it was his belief that if the internal diffuser only dispersed co2 through the external filter unit, it would not diffuse to it's full potential.

Also, in terms of introducing the water and co2 back into the aquarium, I received some advice from a member of UKAPS who stated that a spraybar is the best method as it allows the co2 to better reach the bottom of the tank where the plants will use it. The LFS employee said the opposite, stating that the moment the return water hits the aquarium water surface, the co2 will gas off. So, understandably, and not for the first time, I'm very confused as to what advice I should follow!!

The new aquarium dimensions will be: 60cm length, 50cm height and 40cm width. Given this and it's holding capacity, what wattage of lighting would constitute medium to high light? The aquarium does not come with a hood and ballast so I will need a good clip on LED or fluorescent set-up.


Mark.


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## morefirejules08 (22 Sep 2011)

personally i would go with the advise you receive here, although lfs staff can be very good(i used to be one) very few are experts in a particular field, especially one as specialized as planted aquariums


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## mark4785 (22 Sep 2011)

morefirejules08 said:
			
		

> personally i would go with the advise you receive here, although lfs staff can be very good(i used to be one) very few are experts in a particular field, especially one as specialized as planted aquariums



Ok, but how do you hook up an inline diffuser to an external filter? My LFS had no clue but suggested I used a external diffuser container in addition to my external filter to attach the inline diffuser to.

I'm looking for the best possible way to diffuse co2 via an external filter and I'm not sure my LFS has the information I need. Most of their employees keep non-co2 nano aquariums.


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## morefirejules08 (22 Sep 2011)

i think that question is best answered by one of the resident experts

cheers


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## J Butler (22 Sep 2011)

The clue was in the question you asked Mark, inline diffusers attach inline   

If you're referring to the UP atomiser variety, they come in 3 sizes:
8/12 
12/16
16/22
Where the first number is the internal diameter of the filter hosing and the second is the outer diameter (in mm)
A lot of external filters have tubing of this diameter, it is simply a case of cutting the tubing and fitting this between the two pieces.

A seperate connection is provided for the CO2 tubing.

Hope that helps


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## J Butler (22 Sep 2011)

Surface agitation

This topic may be worth a read also


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## mark4785 (22 Sep 2011)

J Butler said:
			
		

> The clue was in the question you asked Mark, inline diffusers attach inline
> 
> If you're referring to the UP atomiser variety, they come in 3 sizes:
> 8/12
> ...



I don't think the LFS employee was referring to the UP atomiser. He pulled a box down from a shelf and showed me something which resembled a 1 litre lucozade bottle and said that the co2 would first enter this container before entering the outlet pipe of the external filter. He said without this product, diffusion would be non-existent. I didn't really pay much attention as I've over heard him discuss other basic topics such nitrate toxicity on fish, saying at some point, "if you go over 50-60ppm gasping will occur". This statement would indicate he is probably not into planted aquariums or at the very least, has non-co2 low light set-ups which never really have high dissolved nitrates.

I was, myself, looking for an inline diffuser like the UP atomiser you've pointed out (I got side tracked with this lucozade bottle thingy that he was trying to flog given that they had no inline diffusers in stock) when I visited the LFS. Does the UP atomiser connect as follows?:

'>' = connected to

co2 cylinder > co2 pressure reducer > co2 pipe > non-return valve > co2 pipe > UP atomiser > external filter outlet pipe > aquarium?


Thanks again,

Mark.


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## morefirejules08 (22 Sep 2011)

sounds a bit like he was showing you a co2 reactor


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## J Butler (22 Sep 2011)

hmm, not quite sure what that might have been then, possibly some kind of reactor or power diffuser



			
				mark4785 said:
			
		

> '>' = connected to
> 
> co2 cylinder > co2 pressure reducer > co2 pipe > non-return valve > co2 pipe > UP atomiser > external filter outlet pipe > aquarium?



That looks about right, you may want to add a bubble counter between the non-return valvle and UP atomiser. It's not strictly necessary, but it provides a good visual guide to changes made to the amount of CO2 going into the tank.

When you say CO2 pressure reducer, are we talking regulator and needle valve or were you going for another method?


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## mark4785 (22 Sep 2011)

J Butler said:
			
		

> hmm, not quite sure what that might have been then, possibly some kind of reactor or power diffuser
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok. So in order to get a suitable bubble-counter It'd need to be external and fit the diameter of the c02 pipe? No specific brands or other things to consider?

Yes by pressure reducer I mean needle valve and regulator.

Would I get ample co2 diffusion simply by relying on the UP atomiser or do the professionals with really vibrant and healthy high-light aquaria rely on power diffuser gadgets etc?

Mark.


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## J Butler (22 Sep 2011)

I believe the CO2 tubing is usually 4/6mm (ID/OD) so you shouldn't have to worry about compatibility. If you want to go for an inline diffuser, you will need one that fits inline. The main difference is usually the material they're made from, glass or plastic.

Aqua Essentials sell a few different variations: Bubble counters

CO2 diffusion methods come under a bit of contention, for 125 litres however, an inline diffuser like the UP should be more than sufficient. The main thing to concentrate on is getting a good distribution with adequate flow.


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## Iain Sutherland (23 Sep 2011)

Up atomiser's need 2 BAR of working pressure to really be effective. Check your regulator first as some are limited to 1 BAR.
 Set up like so.






set up is easy, finding the sweet point is the hard bit


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## mark4785 (23 Sep 2011)

Thanks again for the informative replies.

Which external filter is the best to rely on? I know that there is a general rule that states the filter output rate should be 10x the capacity of the aquarium, but I do not know anything about the most efficient, popular and safe filters that people (especially aquascapers) tend to use.

Any advice on this would be very much appreciated.



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> set up is easy, finding the sweet point is the hard bit



What exactly do you mean by sweet point?

Mark.


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## foxfish (23 Sep 2011)

Sweet point = enough gas to satisfy plants & not kill fish!


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## Iain Sutherland (23 Sep 2011)

Its very easy to fiddle too much... set the co2 in a safe zone (low bubble count) and increase slightly each day, not each hour!!, as long as your at home for the next few hours to check the fish are ok.
Once you see them gasping a little or being lethargic then you are slightly above the sweet spot  Dial it back to how it was the day before and your okie cokie.


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## mark4785 (24 Sep 2011)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Its very easy to fiddle too much... set the co2 in a safe zone (low bubble count) and increase slightly each day, not each hour!!, as long as your at home for the next few hours to check the fish are ok.
> Once you see them gasping a little or being lethargic then you are slightly above the sweet spot  Dial it back to how it was the day before and your okie cokie.



Ahh ok. Thanks.

Any external filter recommendations or is my choice as good as anybody else? I'm concerned there will be some reviews of filter systems spewed all over the internet, but the reviewer will not necessarily be hooking it up to a planted aquarium. I don't want to go and buy one and find it's absolutely useless when used in combination with a planted tank!!


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## Iain Sutherland (24 Sep 2011)

Ive only had eheims and they are great, a lot of people seem to use the fluvals especially the FX5.  Havent heard a bad report.


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## mark4785 (26 Sep 2011)

I've been searching for an appealing external filter and I've been drawn to the Sera fil Bioactive 400 with integrated UV (listed here: http://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/proddeta ... od=WAQ0906).

I've also found the new Fluval G's quite interesting.

The problem I have at the moment is imagining how I'd fit an inline diffuser to the filters output hose. When you read the manuals for each of these filters there doesn't seem to be any mention/provision for a third party object (i.e. inline diffuser) being fixed to an outlet pipe. Presumably, then, adding an inline diffuser is liable to leak and void the products warranty?

It seems you're left to your own devices to attach an inline diffuser which is a little unnerving as I'm hardly a professional! If the outlet pipe was to leak and cause an electrical fire, even the house insurance we have would become void , right?

Mark.


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## foxfish (26 Sep 2011)

Hi Mark, look for a  fluval or Eheim rated at least 1200 ltr but better to go for the next model up if you can.
You will need lots of flow to get the gas flowing evenly around the tank.
Fitting a inline diffuser like the "UP" is easy enough - the device comes with secure fittings, you just cut the flexible pipe from the filter outlet & install the device - takes about 5 mins.


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## mark4785 (27 Sep 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Hi Mark, look for a  fluval or Eheim rated at least 1200 ltr but better to go for the next model up if you can.
> You will need lots of flow to get the gas flowing evenly around the tank.
> Fitting a inline diffuser like the "UP" is easy enough - the device comes with secure fittings, you just cut the flexible pipe from the filter outlet & install the device - takes about 5 mins.



Are there any other branded filters with integrated UV? I'm a big fan of UV as I've seen first hand how the more powerful UV's can prevent parasite infestations. At present Eheim and Fluval don't include UV's, apparently Eheim will be introducing an integrated UV in a new model filter next January but I'm not waiting until then. 

The idea with this tank was to have no clutter (not even a chunky hood) so I don't really want an internal UV device.


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2011)

Hi Mark, UV light is not something that is used very often on a freshwater planted tank, in fact I cant think of one single planted tank on this forum that has one!
You will be using a huge filter compared to the average tank & carrying out 50% weekly water changes - you wont need a UV.


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## mark4785 (30 Sep 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Hi Mark, UV light is not something that is used very often on a freshwater planted tank, in fact I cant think of one single planted tank on this forum that has one!
> You will be using a huge filter compared to the average tank & carrying out 50% weekly water changes - you wont need a UV.



Alrighty. I've decided to give the UV a miss; I've purchased a new Fluval 406 external filter which has a good LPH flow rate. The problem I am having at the moment is finding an appropriate in-line diffuser as Fluval's website does not state the outer/inner diameter of the 406's outlet pipe and as such no sellers are passing on that information. I'm sure there is a suitable inline diffuser for this filter system but I really wish there were part/product dimensions stated somewhere!


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## foxfish (30 Sep 2011)

Just measure the pipe?


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## jacko32 (8 Oct 2011)

quick question where does the buble counter go ?


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## freelanderuk (9 Oct 2011)

bottle>reg>solinoid>neddlevalve>checkvalve>bubblecounter>checkvalve>defuser


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## jacko32 (9 Oct 2011)

excellent thanks very much


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