# saintly's "Prairie Lands"



## Mark Evans (13 Feb 2009)

onwards and upwards!






i've started this journal just to tell my self that i am going forward with my aqauscaping. MA have a scape, my mother has 2 but i don't have anything.  

The plan is to create an iwagumi.I'm finding out more and more that I'm quite a fan of the style and want to try and create something that i can feel proud of, now my first challenge is to decide which stone to use. I've been pro-active in trying to find some stones native to this country, so i might go down that road.or I'm still a fan of seryiou stone, and I'm beginning to understand a bit more how to use the stuff, so I still may opt for that.that's if i can be 100% sure on the layout, it may be a trip to AE to actually choose the stone!

i'm pretty sure on knowing what plants i want tio use too. it's a simple choice really consisting of HC, riccia, eleocharis acicularis e tenellus and blyxa.

so i'm not sure when this will be updated, but, when it is....you can rest assured.... i'll let you know


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## aaronnorth (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

yay  

I would like to see a scape with just low level plants, or minimal use of tall plants like this http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... l=1&id=161

although whatever you have planned i am sure will be good.


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## Ed Seeley (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I like what you've done with it mate! Very original!   

Get yourself along to CED and drool over all the different stones!  The brochure appetite wetting enough for me!


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## Mark Evans (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> I like what you've done with it mate! Very original!



should i move it to the left or right?....mmmm....left i think!   

thanks for the links Ed, i reckon i'm in for some stunning stones! fingers crossed


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## scottturnbull (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

It's perfect. I can't find fault with it.


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## billy boy (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Ed Seeley said:
> 
> 
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> ...



I think to the right a bit lol, Would save somebody putting their head threw it, if they trip when comeing down the stairs


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## Mark Evans (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				billy boy said:
			
		

> Would save somebody putting their head threw it, if they trip when comeing down the stairs



i had all this a while ago. sorry, are you health and safety?


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## billy boy (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> billy boy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i am lol, How did you know    I take it, you've have had a risk assessment done


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## GreenNeedle (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

What can I say.  It has that clean crisp look that I love.  I think you are overdoing the light however.  Maybe cut back to 0.1WPG and may get away with it but you will need to keep CO2 high!!! In the region of 400ppm or so should cut it 

Very bold and original.  Forget ADA and go for the Turner prize 

Maybe even safe from the rock police on this one 

Looking forward to the new scape matey.  This one was my favourite so far but then you used my favourite plants in it so I am biased.

anticipation is killing me.

AC


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## TDI-line (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				scottturnbull said:
			
		

> It's perfect. I can't find fault with it.



I can, those pictures aren't straight.


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## Mark Evans (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> I can, those pictures aren't straight.



 i know, it's this strange compulsion to have something wrong in my life!


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## JamesM (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> scottturnbull said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  

Looks great, Mark!

What is the foreground plant though? Hemianthus Invisiblichoides?


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## Mark Evans (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Hemianthus Invisiblichoides?



 yeah, you know your plants bud! takes some real trimming skills though!


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## samc (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

ill look foward to this one again


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## Thomas McMillan (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

as usual, can't wait for this


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## hellohefalump (13 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

How do you find the temparature with the radiator next to it?  I've always been put off placing tanks next to radiators.


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				hellohefalump said:
			
		

> How do you find the temparature with the radiator next to it? I've always been put off placing tanks next to radiators.



no problems what so ever. in fact it takes the pressure off the in-line heater if anything. the radiator it self is on low anyway


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## George Farmer (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

The black canvas.  For me, the most exciting stage....

All the best mate.  You've probably about 200 members subscribed to this thread, so no pressure!   

I'm tearing down my 60cm and doing a ADA-clone Iwagumi.  I wish I had an empty 120cm to play with!


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> The black canvas. For me, the most exciting stage....



me too!



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> You've probably about 200 members subscribed to this thread, so no pressure!



 The MA scape was immense pressure due to its public nature....you now know if i don't post any images of this one?....you know its crap!   



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'm tearing down my 60cm and doing a ADA-clone Iwagumi. I wish I had an empty 120cm to play with!



I look forward to see how you approach an iwagumi.


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## Stu Worrall (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

im sure its gonna be a beaut!  cant wait to see how it progresses


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## George Farmer (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> I look forward to see how you approach an iwagumi.


Probably similar to you.  

This will be my fourth (after Jeremy's 120cm, 30cm Meadow Zephyr and 30cm Little Mountain), so I have no excuse not to get it right!

I think your tank's aspect ratio suits Iwagumi better than my 60cm.


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> think your tank's aspect ratio suits Iwagumi better than my 60cm.



much more room for to create highs and lows. although in NA book 3 (i think) amano definately said that the to do iwagumi in its purest form a 60 cm tank should be used. i found that quite interesting. 

in book there are 2 stunning iwagumis in larger tanks


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I've just received my dec 08 edition from sunny Japan of the aqua journal dedicated to iwagumi!  some great scapes in there. i only buy it for the pics. you can learn just as much as written text.

so a tank full of inspiration!   






i cant wait to get going with it!


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> amano definitely said that the to do iwagumi in its purest form a 60 cm tank should be used. i found that quite interesting.



i got myself thinking, and after looking at a few amano iwagumi scapes, especially the sanzon style (3 pillar) i thought to myself "i got a load of stone in the back garden"

it's blue stone, and if i'm honest i didn't like the look of it, but i thought what the heck lets try it! after all were in a recession and i cant really afford to keep blowing money.and upon using it, i instantly loved it

as i've mentioned this layout is based on 3 stones and a couple of backbone stones to finish it off. excuse the poor image as the glass was real dirty due to the old AS  being like mud!

i personally like it, it follows most of the rules of iwagumi and I'm chuffed because it only took about 45 mins to do it   I would say it's a lot more edgy than my other iwagumi attempts





I've still got to buy a couple of bags of substrate to cap it all off, but apart from that, this is what i'm going with. so I'm up and running quicker than i thought.

plant choice still remains the same.


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## samc (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

nice. i love it, its simple but really affective


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## JamesM (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

That's actually something totally different to what I expected mate, and its looks really unique and well balanced. You'll be adding more AS I take it? and what about a sand foreground? I wonder how she'd look with a partial sand foreground offset from the centre... maybe even a sandy corner...

What plants do you have in mind too bud?


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> That's actually something totally different to what I expected mate, and its looks really unique and well balanced.



Thanks James, yeah, the balance does seem to sit right with this and it's a mile off what i planned on doing but I've looked at some of amanos works that are similar in look and, i feel confident that this will turn out fine.

i've considered the sand idea too.  



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> I wonder how she'd look with a partial sand foreground offset from the centre... maybe even a sandy corner...



great thinking mate, i'm just not sure i got the balls.

there will be in addition to this substrate, at least 2 more bags of something!

plants will be 

ELEOCHARIS ACICULARIS, BLYXA JAPONICA, RICCIA, Hemianthus callitrichoides and Echinodorus tenellus

100% confident on these to feature, NO STEMS!


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> nice. i love it, its simple but really affective



thanks samc. hopefully the planting should change things.


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## JamesM (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Ooooh, no stems - perfect


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## samc (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i think it looks so right for some reason. i should be getting that 60cm i wanted, went custom in the end, 24x18x15 for Â£50. hoping to do something like youve done here so looking foward to it even more.


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## Mark Evans (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> i think it looks so right for some reason. i should be getting that 60cm i wanted, went custom in the end, 24x18x15 for Â£50. hoping to do something like youve done here so looking foward to it even more.



what a nice thing to say, thanks samc   

at least you and james know where i'm coming from


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## JamesM (14 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Newark?  :?


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## Thomas McMillan (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

That hardscape is amazing. I've never seen such perfect hardscape positioning, seriously and I don't even like iwagumis. The sense of scale is awesome aswell. This is definately gonna be an immense scape, Mark.


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## Tom (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looks nice, but maybe a bit flat? Probably just the picture but I can't see any scale. I'm sure when it's planted up it will be clearer!   

Tom


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Looks nice, but maybe a bit flat? Probably just the picture but I can't see any scale. I'm sure when it's planted up it will be clearer!



the image is poor tom. do you mean depth rather than scale?....it's a 120cm so that gives you a senses of scale....them stones are big! the lanting i have in mind should change everything.   



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> That hardscape is amazing. I've never seen such perfect hardscape positioning, seriously and I don't even like iwagumis. The sense of scale is awesome aswell. This is definately gonna be an immense scape, Mark.



thanks Thomas. It's actually one of my faves too    it's nothing like using seryiou stone, the whole thing "feels"different. a lot more "earthy"

once ive got added substrate i'll post better images


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i've decided on plants!

eleocharis acicularis for the rear (center)
e tenellus for in between main stone/sub stone left and right sub stone.

I'm not having blyxa, i just don't think it will fit with the shady feel.

riccia stones a plenty!riccia  form hellofalump (thanks)

and HC in the foreground but  not in an even way.I'll create shapes with the riccia stones.

i'm going to have a black background too. mean and moody 8)


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## George Farmer (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Copy cat!

Just kiddin' mate.

Rocks look great.  From the photo they all seem on the same axis, like Tom suggests, but I'm sure they're not.

Plants sound good.


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> like Tom suggests, but I'm sure they're not.



there slightly off. in a curved formation. i've got some more substrate to add, so everything is to come out and back in again.


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## George Farmer (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Sweet.  

I start mine today...  I was looking through old Aqua Journals last night.  I would look through my NAW Book 2 and 3 but someone has stolen them!! lol

Are you doing an open sand foreground?


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I would look through my NAW Book 2 and 3 but someone has stolen them!! lol



ahh...that'll be me mate  8) 



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Are you doing an open sand foreground?



no, just plants on this one. i'll attempt that at a later date. 

so you doing yours in a 60 right?....will we get to see any progress reports?


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

this is like a credit crunch gumi. Old AS which is like mud. JBL stuff tropica stuff stone i wasnt keen on....  

it gives me more money for plants though


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## aaronnorth (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Layout is looking good, and plants should look very good when they start to mingle in with each other.


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

thanks aaron. 

after taking the old AS out again. I've now added some tropica substrate along with some JBL aquabasis and then put the old AS on top. i'm going to order 2 x bags of something...

i'm also going to fill it with TPN+ capsules so the substrate is loaded.






its going to be an island as you can tell from the mound in the middle


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## altaaffe (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> this is like a credit crunch gumi. Old AS which is like mud. JBL stuff tropica stuff stone i wasnt keen on....



Know what you mean, mine is being done the same way and the plants are all recycled from other tanks too.

Love your rock set-up though, looking good.


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

ok, i've gone proper sanzon. just 3 stones. looks tons better and gives me a better planting sceme too. simple is best


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## Ed Seeley (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I really liked that mate and look forward to seeing photos of the rearranged layout.  Those stones look really nice and chunky and will be really well set off by the thin leaved small plants you've picked IMHO.  What's the stocking going to be?  If you've not got them already I reckon you want a big shoal of something really small to play with the sense of scale even more and make it look _really_ huge!!!!


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> I really liked that mate and look forward to seeing photos of the rearranged layout.



arghhhh...i was going to hold back on the layout   but you've twisted my arm Ed.

I've gone for purist forms here. it wont be to everyone's liking, but imagine it shrouded in e acicularis. e tenellus sprouting from behind the stones, HC in the front playground area and a shoal of 100 cardinals.

that's what i see, yes it may be a rip off of amano, but hey, that's how we learn right?   





there may be the odd tweak still.


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## Thomas McMillan (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

It looks great  have you thought about maybe adding some Crypts in amoungst all the other plants? Something like Parva or Wendtii - not too big. It might look quite good.

For me, the right rock doesn't look quite right. But that's just me.


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## Ed Seeley (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Very nice mate.  Impressive sized lumps of rock that give a really dominant feel.

But I'd go with different fish!  I reckon the cards are too big!  Just think how 150 Boraras brigittae would look?  The lumps of rock would look enormous!  Cardnals would be classically elegant though!


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> have you thought about maybe adding some Crypts in amoungst all the other plants?



I'd considered it some time ago, but I'm just wanting to embrace the chance of doing an iwagumi with grasses. since i started a year ago, I've always wanted to do one right....now is my chance. good thinking though thomas



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> the right rock doesn't look quite right. But that's just me.



planting changes everything. 



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> I reckon the cards are too big! Just think how 150 Boraras brigittae would look?



you might be on to something there Ed. would exaggerate the size of stone. i might just do that!

plant list coming soon


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

OK, good spot Thomas.

a slight adjustment to the right stone (brought it closer)





cant wait to get this planted!


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## JamesM (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I gotta say too, the black background and moody lighting is really nice mate  Different to the overexposed Amano stuff people do everyday.


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## Mark Evans (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> I gotta say too, the black background and moody lighting is really nice mate  Different to the overexposed Amano stuff people do everyday.



glad you like. 

 amanos early works consisted of 100% black backgrounds. for some iwagumi layouts it works a treat   i gota get some decent backing though...i cant keep draping the old curtains behind it   









GUMITASTIC


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## chump54 (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i like how the light is falling on the stone, particularly the darker areas. do you think it'll look the same with water?

Chris


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## samc (15 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

liking the layout. im like you allways wanted to a grassy iwagumi and ill be doing one in the next month


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## aaronnorth (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*








I prefer the latest arrangment, although i am not sure on the angle, partly because of the flat face on the right rock showing too much?? Or is it just me/ lighting as usual


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## George Farmer (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

The Sanzon-Iwagumi (3 stones) is a more powerful layout, for me.  I think I prefer it and it would likely suit the simple planting.  

I don't see any obvious areas for improvement on the stone choice and composition, but creativity was never my strong point.

The stones also make a refreshing change to Seiryu/Mini Landscape.

I also like the black background - another refreshing change.  Is it burnt out using PS?

Superb work, as always mate.   Your journals are fast approaching legendry status!


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> I prefer the latest arrangment, although i am not sure on the angle, partly because of the flat face on the right rock showing too much?? Or is it just me/ lighting as usual



That's what I was getting at, about the flat face.


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## Dan Crawford (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> i gota get some decent backing though...i cant keep draping the old curtains behind it


I'll sort ya one out pal  I'll bring it along at the weekend.


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## jay (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looking lovely as we all knew it would. Must say I prefer the one where there is more space between the middle and right stones. bit more space for planting. That rock is real nice too. What is it?
Just a little niggle.... The right stone? whats the other side of it look like?
Just seems a bit squared of compared to the other two how it is. Sure the grasses will soften it up though.


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## Mark Evans (16 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

it's becoming apparent that the flat side is not to everyone's taste...including my wife's.

I've turned it around slightly and the flat side is not so prominent. 

TBH and really great full for the praise from all of you guys. it means much more to me that you like the stone arrangements that i do. it's always a learning process with stone, and i love the challenge.

george it's just cheopo PS tricks mate just to emphasize the layout. 

hopefully i should plant this up in a couple of weeks.


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## TDI-line (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looks great Mark.

I personally like the flat rock and is something a little different from the norm, i think we can get over critical with rock placements.  

Is there a name when an Iwagumi has only 2 pieces of rock....


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## Ray (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Looking lovely as we all knew it would. Must say I prefer the one where there is more space between the middle and right stones. bit more space for planting. That rock is real nice too. What is it?
> Just a little niggle.... The right stone? whats the other side of it look like?
> Just seems a bit squared of compared to the other two how it is. Sure the grasses will soften it up though.



I second all of this.  The stone is fab - a lovely refreshing change from the shop bought stuff and really interesting to boot with lots of texture.  Can't quite see what kind of rock it is - I presume you've checked it doesn't contain any calcium?

I think the cardinals would be better than the borara's given the moody feel (really is a credit crunch scape eh?) - get some small ones - just 2cm like my green neons.  They will grow but I'm sure you'll tear down the scape first


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## Joecoral (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> it means much more to me that you like the stone arrangements that i do.



Whilst its good to take onboard the wisdom/advice forum members may offer, at the end of the day its you that's gotta look at it all the time and have it in your house mate, ultimately go with what you like as opposed to what other forum members may like


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## LondonDragon (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looks great Mark, I like the 3 stone placement too, look forward to seeing it planted


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## Mark Evans (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

wow, thanks guys!

such nice replies!  



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> They will grow but I'm sure you'll tear down the scape first



 your getting to me well Ray! 



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> Is there a name when an Iwagumi has only 2 pieces of rock....



togumi i think   

i'm close to a final list!...plants


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## jay (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Vivipara? 
Never really been a fan in the past but I recently got a few AquaJournals and seen the stuff kept well in check.
Think it looks the nuts in an iwagumi..
With your commitment, I'm sure it would know it's place


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## John Starkey (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi Mark,i am drooling with excitment to see this planted,    regards john.


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## Mark Evans (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Vivipara?



high maintenance i believe. but yeah i would groom it...if i could get hold of some. i'm hoping to use acicualris in the back though.



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,i am drooling with excitment to see this planted,  regards john.



cheers john   not as much as i'm though


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## JamesM (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Vivipara is apparently one of the hardest plants to establish too.. Mine died within a week


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## George Farmer (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I don't think I've seen E. vivipari in a decent UK 'scape.  Groundbreaking, Mark!

I imagine it will be supplied in emerged form, so pruning it back very hard should help encourage new submerged growth.


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## samc (17 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i got some from plats alive which was in good condition


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## aaronnorth (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Vivipara is apparently one of the hardest plants to establish too.. Mine died within a week



You have to keep it in check otherwise it can start to look really messy (gets tangled easily) but once it has been grown i think it is a stunning plant, i love how Jason Baliban used it in this scape here: http://www.projectaquarium.com/plantedA ... ander.aspx


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## jay (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I may be wrong but I really don't think that is Vivipara that Jason used for that beautiful 'scape.
It is either a form of Giant hairgrass from Japan, or is Isoetes japonica.
It seems too thck stemmed to be vivipara.


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## JamesM (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but getting it to root in is difficult.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> I may be wrong but I really don't think that is Vivipara that Jason used for that beautiful 'scape.
> It is either a form of Giant hairgrass from Japan, or is Isoetes japonica.
> It seems too thck stemmed to be vivipara.


Vivipara is actually quite thick... 






After trimming it right back I got a small amount of growth, but it eventually died back and the roots rotted. Shame, its a beautiful plant.


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## Dan Crawford (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I'm using it in my lastest scape, what does that Farmer know hey?   Now i've just gotta make sure it's a decent scape!

It's growing ok, it was in poor nick when i got it but it's slowly improving. If it turns out ok i'll send you some but by the looks of it, it won't be any time soon!


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## George Farmer (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Jason himself isn't sure what that hairgrass species is.



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> I'm using it in my lastest scape, what does that Farmer know hey?   Now i've just gotta make sure it's a decent scape!


Doh!  Sorry mate - I remember now!

I'm not a big fan of the plant, personally.  For me, it looks too messy (even in Amano's tanks) and high-maintenance.

However, if anyone can make it look good; Dan and Mark are two of the likeliest candidates I think of...


----------



## Dan Crawford (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> if anyone can make it look good; Dan and Mark are two of the likeliest candidates I think of...


Thanks mate, we'll see  


			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> 'm not a big fan of the plant, personally. For me, it looks too messy (even in Amano's tanks) and high-maintenance.


I agree but i wanna make it work, you know? If i can't get it to work then Cyperus is the future for me.


----------



## Dave Spencer (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I have used E. Vivipara, but made the mistake of planting it near some M. umbrosum....what a mess.

As long as it is the only tall plant in the tank it looks fantastic IMO. Not sure I`ll ever try it again, though!

Dave.

P.S. Mine was from Plants Alive and was very good quality, and grew like a weed on steroids. I used an Afro comb to keep it tidy, but it just kept strangling the M. umbrosum.


----------



## Joecoral (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> grew like a weed on steroids. I used an Afro comb to keep it tidy


----------



## aaronnorth (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The stuff i recieved was much thinner than that, more like eleocharis parvula/ acularis!

EDIT: sorry for the hijack Mark.


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> sorry for the hijack Mark.



no worries Aaron, your all doing a wonderful job of keeping my journals massive   

BTW folks...ive ordered some vivipara


----------



## jay (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Me too 8) 
I can see a craze sweeping the Ukaps forum!

Hope mine is the same thick stuff that JamesM pictured.
Understand what George says about it looking messy, I believed the same after seeing it used in a few jungle and "ryobuko"(?)
But in a good iwagumi,(Mark, please stand up) well kept, it can look great IMO.

Go for it!!


----------



## samc (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

ill be using it aswell in my next tank  8)


----------



## Vito (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Stunning looking hardscape so far sainty, jelous, very jelous!

I have Vivipara in my tank I origanly bought it because i thoutgh it would be long strands but it actually sprouts new growth at the tips in a kind of umbrella form and becomes a tangly mess, im not so sure how to trim to get the long strands all the way to the top... im probably going wrong somewhere, any one got any advice on how to get the long stand effect?

Vito


----------



## JamesM (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

You just snip the buds off...


----------



## jay (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> You just snip the buds off...



So the stems will carry on growing up without the bud?


----------



## JamesM (18 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


tbh I don't know if it does, or if it just encourages new longer growth of a separate stem..  :?


----------



## Jur4ik (23 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi Mark,
Just wanted to leave you a msg that IÂ´m now reading this journal and somehow like style of UKAPS   
regards


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

hey jur4ik. nice to see you mate


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

3 stone iwagumi?....forget that folks! it's changed


----------



## JamesM (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Well show us then!


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Well show us then!



 cameras broke


----------



## samc (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

ahhh u like to leave us in suspence


----------



## aaronnorth (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i'm sure you have a spare


----------



## jay (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Think Mark has been stone shopping.


----------



## Simon D (25 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Not chopping? Is this a typo?


----------



## L number Banana (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Wow.
Of all the first posts to read I had to pick this one that leaves me looking at the 'next' button in vain....  

Can't wait to see it.

Nice site you have here, I'm stopping by from Planetcatfish. One of your members just posted pics there of a lovely tank and I'm inspired all over again.

Cheers


----------



## LondonDragon (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				L number Banana said:
			
		

> Nice site you have here, I'm stopping by from Planetcatfish. One of your members just posted pics there of a lovely tank and I'm inspired all over again.


Welcome aboard  I think I am the guilty one that got you here lol hehe


----------



## Mark Evans (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				L number Banana said:
			
		

> Of all the first posts to read I had to pick this one that leaves me looking at the 'next' button in vain....



 

i received my e vivipara today from plants alive. it looks quality stuff


----------



## samc (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

nice i got some from there a while back found it good too. 

when u planning on planting up then i wanna see it!


----------



## L number Banana (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi LondonDragon,


> Welcome aboard  I think I am the guilty one that got you here lol hehe


Yes, it's all your fault and thank you!! 
OMG, I've spent waaayy too many hours here already. I'm not such an odd duck here with my 'pond tanks'. You guys have a pretty nice el-natural section - always more to learn 

Can't wait to see this tank, I'm already thinking about the stones in my garden and rearranging them in my mind and tank. They're still under several feet of snow.


----------



## samc (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

haha sounds like your hooked already, its really addictive


----------



## L number Banana (26 Feb 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

It IS addictive. My background is horticulture but what do you do in the winter in Canada? Aquascape!

I think I'll need to move into nanos at some point soon because of space. Also with a floral background, I've noticed the massive increase in glassware available. Interesting shapes made to hold water, hmm. Also, aquascaping provides enough humidity to grow some nice orchids.

Oh dear, now I just realized I could make a paludrium (sp?) with terrestrial orchids on the top    

So many ideas so little time.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

so back to the journal. i've been on a mission recently to find a quality stone thats different and cheap to everything else. 

i've managed to find that stone! 

the price?.....roughly 20p a kilo. i bought 82KG for Â£11.00   

it looks mega. i'm going for the 3 stone arrangement now.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Really nice arrangement, and the stone looks amazing! Where's it from?

I can't help but think the outer two might be a tad too short though.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I can't help but think the outer two might be a tad too short though.



well, it was the first thing i did. it's to show the rocks off really. 

anyhow, the stone is from a stone supplier at langley mill. cheap as chips!

i got some beauty's. I've got loads of fiddling to do, but due to the huge nature of these stones, a 3 stone arrangement is the only realistic option.

i'll be able to order my plants soon.


----------



## LondonDragon (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

What a find Mark!! Stone looks great and very cheap indeed  looking forward to the final layout


----------



## samc (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

like the layout mark nice stone uv got there i went on a stone hunt today at the local garden centre but nothing special there. 
i did like the first layout u did too though


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I'm not going to get really anal with this..posting images of every layout. but it would be safe to say it will look something like this....so hopefully  the next image should be of the planting   

i've got a few bags of the oli knott substarte coming so that should even out the horrid texture you can see. you cant tell but that is sat on one hell of a mound as it is!

thanks for the comments.

LD, it's find of the century @ 20p per KG


----------



## Thomas McMillan (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

That layout looks really good. The tank REALLY doesn't look like 120cm at all.


----------



## Tony Swinney (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great rocks, and great price - look forward to seeing the planting


----------



## Ed Seeley (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> LD, it's find of the century @ 20p per KG



Looks like you owe me then mate!!!     I trust that was from CED?  Which type did you get in the end?


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> Looks like you owe me then mate!!!  I trust that was from CED? Which type did you get in the end?



i sure do. theres some awesome stuff there. if i had a huge tank, thats where i'd buy from for sure.

i went for coppice green. it's got a real character, kinda mean in its look. very dark green almost dark grey.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> The tank REALLY doesn't look like 120cm at all.



the stones are that big mate, it makes look small. the plants will put back a sense of scale. e tenellus should look like normal height grass in this scape. and a shoal of tetras should look cool as...



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> look forward to seeing the planting



me too matey


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

a tad more menacing.....


----------



## Steve Smith (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi Mark.

Were those stones easy to buy?  You didn't have to bulk purchase them did you?  Any tips on buying from CED?


----------



## Stu Worrall (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

from looking at that stone I can see a queue of ukaps members at the quarry gates with trailers attached to their cars for their hardscape!  Looks like its gonna be a corker


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Were those stones easy to buy?



easy to buy, hard to carry   

yeah, i just walked in picked out the ones i liked put them in a container, the guy weighed them. 

they don't deliver as the numbers we require are so small it's just not worth them delivering.



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> Looks like its gonna be a corker



i just need to get the plant choice right. there's no blyxa going in...too nice. riccia in small amounts. mainly e acivulari, e tenellus. vivipara, and i'm still unsure about adding HC in the foreground. 

i've even thought about using just e acicularis on it's own  8) 

i'll let you know when i've decided


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

forgot to add...i've got my nature soil coming from AE so the hardscape will be 100% in a couple of days.

theres 1 x 10L normal grain and 1 x 10L fine grain plus what's in the tank already.


----------



## LondonDragon (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> forgot to add...i've got my nature soil coming from AE so the hardscape will be 100% in a couple of days.
> theres 1 x 10L normal grain and 1 x 10L fine grain plus what's in the tank already.


Will be nice to get your opinion this substrate, looking forward to it.  Its not cheap though!!!


----------



## JamesM (3 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, its not as cheap as expected, but hopefully its way better than that ADA rubbish  

Looking good Mark!


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

OK, i've now received the oliver Knott substrate from AE....http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=2695

i got 1 bag of 10L large grain and 1 bag of 10l fine grain.

first impressions are great. it's great to work with for sure. time will tell the rest of the story

so instead of posting loads of individual images, I've just banged a load on to one page.

my substarte system consists of the following...
The base layer
aquabasis plus x a lot of bags    plus   powersand, 

then some old AS, then the new stuff.

oliver knott 10L normal x 1 
topped with approx 5L fine grade oliver knott substrate 

the fine grade was added after the stones were put in.






and heres the final layout, it's now down to the planting whether this will ook any good or not


----------



## JamesM (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

:wub:

Can't fault that, Mark! Looks sick mate!


----------



## Dan Crawford (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Lookin' good mate


----------



## LondonDragon (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

AWSOME DUDE!!! I love it  bring on the plants  can't wait


----------



## Steve Smith (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

It's going to be another Saintly stunner


----------



## George Farmer (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Very nice, Mark!  

It'll be a tall order to beat your MA display tank but this shows potential already.

In a way it's a shame you didn't use Oliver Knott's substrate exclusively to get a true impression of performance vs. Aqua Soil.  It's great to mix stuff though - I think my biggest mix was Tropica, EcoComplete, AquaClay, Aqua Soil and Unipac black in Matt Clarke's tank.  It's still going strong apparently.


----------



## John Starkey (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi Mark,i am looking forward to see what results you get,good luck regards john.


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,i am looking forward to see what results you get,good luck regards john.



cheers john



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> It'll be a tall order to beat your MA display tank but this shows potential already.



it's in a different vein to the MA scape. the MA scape was intended to be quite "nice" in its look hence the stems, but with this i'm wanting quite a dark feel to the whole thing. 

i'm still pondering on what plants to use. theres so many options open to me on this one all with different out comes. i keep borrowing ideas from amano regards the planting.

 i'd love just a carpet of acicularis and vivipara in the back, but the better half says NO.....apparently it would look like a un kept lawn   thats the idea, right? 

so, HC still may feature but i'm unsure about the end look. argghh...i dunno! 



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> It's going to be another Saintly stunner



fingers crossed steve  8) 



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> AWSOME DUDE!!! I love it  bring on the plants  can't wait



cheers LD



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Lookin' good mate



even better with a proper background   



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Can't fault that, Mark! Looks sick mate!



cheers fella, i cant wait for you to unveil yours   



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> In a way it's a shame you didn't use Oliver Knott's substrate exclusively to get a true impression of performance vs. Aqua Soil.



cost mate, this is still a gumi on a budget to some degree.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I think the hairgrass mixture idea is great - hairgrass is a great plant. 

The hardscape looks great too, this should be one to watch as with all the saintly journals.


----------



## Ray (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Good grief Mark, at 3.99/litre this is even more expensive than Aquasoil @ 1.50/litre!  No wonder you couldn't afford to use it exclusively...

I beg to differ with Mrs. E. - the mixed hairgrass would look great.  So do it anyway.  Of course, that's easy for me to say - I don't have to live with her


----------



## JamesM (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Good grief Mark, at 3.99/litre this is even more expensive than Aquasoil @ 1.50/litre!  No wonder you couldn't afford to use it exclusively...


If you can get Aqua Soil @ Â£1.50 a litre, then please tell us where you get it...


----------



## aaronnorth (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know i want some too! It will be interesting to see the results of it if anyone does use it exclusively. Does it leach ammonia?

Rock positioning looks awesome mate.


----------



## Steve Smith (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> ...Does it leach ammonia?



Apparently not


----------



## Thomas McMillan (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, come on Ray - where you gettin' this knock-off AquaSoil?


----------



## Steve Smith (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Sure you've got the right stuff Ray?


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i think ray has the luxury of European buying. he lives in switzerland. i'm not sure of the pricing over there though...

guys, i've got every confidence in this stuff.

 look, oliver as we all know is thee best in europe at growing plants, right?.....he's not likely to put his name in big bold letters if it were crap.

i'm redoing my 60cm soon and i plan to use this stuff solely, then we can see how good it is.


----------



## Ray (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Public apology,  I'm spouting rubbish - for some reason although I use the product I temporarily thought 18L are in a sack of Aqua Soil.    
All the exchange rates have shifted. A year ago 9l Aqua Soil in Germany was only 22 pounds (29 Euros) with then Euro/GBP exchange rates.  Now it is 27 pounds.
So we have 3.99/litre Oliver Knott vrs 3.33/litre Aqua Soil.  I wonder how much the new JBL product will cost and does it include NPK?  Of course, there is also the Elos stuff that Filipe Olivera uses, someone should try that out.
I suspect all this is like the difference between Dennerle, Aquafleur and Tropica plants - you can't really go wrong with any of them.


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Public apology, I'm spouting rubbish



i do it all the time ray!   



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> I wonder how much the new JBL product will cost and does it include NPK?



i'm still awaiting confirmation on the contents.


----------



## JamesM (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Yeah, Mark's math skills are legendary


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

definitely no vivipara. I've just added some to my 60cm and its straggly old stuff.

 i really don't fancy the time it may take to make it look nice. I'm wanting a relatively easy scape so this plant wont feature.

Lilaeopsis may be added if i can work out the best way to use it. i can grow it, I've tried it in my 35L just to see if I could grow it. it spread nicely.


----------



## Aeropars (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

My new tanks going to be using the Oliver Knott substrate.

My only concern is that their idea of 10 litres might not match a real 10 litres. I want a steep slope in my nano so put 10 litres of water in to give an idea of how it will fill the bottom. 10l SHOULD be plenty so at Â£40 a bag i'll be disappointed if it doesn't.

I'm hoping to start the journal next week!


----------



## Dave Spencer (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> definitely no vivipara.



Scaredy cat!   

It is seriously high maintenance, though. I still think I will give it another go some time, but without any stems in the tank.

Dave.


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Scaredy cat!



i know mate,i'd love to use it but i need to practice with it first to see what it does. this is to be long term...well long for me at least. so i don't want to take the gamble and be going in the tank every 5 minutes



			
				Aeropars said:
			
		

> My only concern is that their idea of 10 litres might not match a real 10 litres



surely that would be against trade description though? well from my experience with both, i would say there is slightly more than AS but then it is 9 V 10 L


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i got bored....shows the character of the stone dont ya think?


----------



## Jur4ik (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looks like a nice banner, maybe something for your signature?


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Jur4ik said:
			
		

> looks like a nice banner, maybe something for your signature?



it could well be jur4ik. i may use it for that one day. I'm constantly changing my sig.


----------



## Mark Evans (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

plants to be ordered.

16x HC
16x e acicularis
16x e tenellus

anything i don't use can go back to the shop.

I've got a plan in my head, but the larger quantities covers me if i change my mind on anything. 

riccia also comes into play.

the plan, similar to an amano layout. acicularis and tenellus around the centre working out to riccia stones down to HC surrounding the whole thing. i considered shrouding the whole thing in grass, but i want an open feeling scape.so this [planting scheme emphasizes the mound

you cant imagine how long I've wanted this style of tank in my house!


----------



## George Farmer (8 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Sounds ace.  Proper minimalist Nature Aquarium.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> you cant imagine how long I've wanted this style of tank in my house!


I can.  And I have...


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

change of plan.

20 pots lilaeopsis
18 of e acicularis
18 of e tenellus

i'm not going down the usual HC route. everyone's seems to be using it right now.


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

plants ordered. arrive wednesday.

6 x hc
18 x lilaeopsis
16 e tenellus
12 e acicularis,

so by the end of the week , i'll have my own tank running


----------



## Steve Smith (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Excellent mate!  Busy weekend ahead then?


----------



## TDI-line (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I'll look forward to seeing this one Mark.


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Excellent mate! Busy weekend ahead then?



for sure. i've planted lilaeopsis before but it can be fiddly. the rest is a doddle.



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> I'll look forward to seeing this one Mark.



not as much as me   the tanks been empty for some time now bar the hard scape.

my looking forward to seeing a carpet of lilaeopsis.

BTW TDI-line, i got flowers developing on your donated blyxa!


----------



## TDI-line (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Wow, you got them flowering.

Can you take a few pics, just so i can see. 

I wish mine would flower...


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i'll try and get a pick at the weekend. there like tiny little storks from the center with a bud like thingy on the end. not opened as yet though.


----------



## samc (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

cant wait to see it ether im doing an iwagumi soon. i havent seen a carpet of lilaeopsis before so ill look foward to that too


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> i havent seen a carpet of lilaeopsis before so ill look foward to that too



i've only ever seen it in amanos tanks. recently i've seen them in aquajournals. it's this that's made me try it. it may look crap, but i gota try. it might even die   it did ok in my 35L arcadia though....fingers crossed


----------



## jay (16 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Good idea.
Hope you plant the lilaeopsis just behind the HC and it starts to creep along and starts shooting through the HC carpet.
I love the look of that.
Got the same plan for a lil' Iwagumi of my own.

It's a slow starter, but once it's settled in the soil, it goes fast.


----------



## flygja (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

16 pages and it hasn't been planted yet... Everyone's excited!


----------



## Joecoral (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> 16 pages and it hasn't been planted yet... Everyone's excited!



16 pages and no plants is actually quite modest for a saintly journal


----------



## Steve Smith (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Doesn't matter though, always good to read   You get a real feel for the pain and anxiety of getting it right!

How about a recap post Mark?


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> Everyone's excited!



they used to be   



			
				Joecoral said:
			
		

> 16 pages and no plants is actually quite modest for a saintly journal



true my friend. like i said in a previous thread, most of my journals will be updated on my own website. with many more images on the gallery page.



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> How about a recap post Mark?



recap ah?.... it's still not planted.

OK, just to recap, I've still got my optiwhite 120cm still sat with hardscape and substrate inside just begging to be planted.

fingers crossed, I'll have the plants tomorrow but, wont plant until Friday evening.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Hope you plant the lilaeopsis just behind the HC and it starts to creep along and starts shooting through the HC carpet.



you've got it mate   I've seen one or two amano images showing that he plants the HC in amongst the lilaeopsis, but I'll put it towards the front, then the lilaeopsis, then e tenellus around the stones and e acicularis at the rear, but not all the way across.

only time will tell if the outcome is to be successful, but at least it'll be another scape to my slowly growing portfolio.

just to finish this recap off, i'd really like to thank everyone thats commented on my journals and to everyone who's come along for the ride.
    for some, they must look at the top of the "recent posts" and see saintly's this or saintly's that and think good god.....not again?  :? my posting will decrease to allow for others to post and not get bogged underneath one of my journals, 
it's also becoming more apparent that some of the more competent scapers on here NOT posting tank images seems to evoke a better reaction when they eventually do post. so i'll try the same! damn IAPLC eh?....
but ultimately you'll be able to view my tanks on my own site.


----------



## George Farmer (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> it's also becoming more apparent that some of the more competent scapers on here NOT posting tank images seems to evoke a better reaction when they eventually do post.


Hi Mark

The reasons I don't post so much 'scape photos these days is more down to spare time.  My regular working day is 13hrs long, before I even see my wife and children, start any freelance work, answer any emails, phone calls etc...

My work with PFK is also a limiting factor, as it's inappropriate for me to post images that will be published and paid for.  I do generally post images after publishing.

It's a sacrifice I consider worthwhile, as I have the potential to influence a wider fishkeeping audience and have had plenty of lovely feedback from planted tank 'converts' (I was voted most popular freelance contributor in a PFK magazine poll, along with Mary Bailey, in my fist year of writing.  Also, I'm sure not all voters were planted tank owners.)

When I started the hobby I used to be on TFF and actually started the first ever planted tank journal on there - now there's a dedicated sub-forum for journals.  I guess I was in a similar position to you, Mark (although my skills as a 'scaper and photographer were relatively poor).  

I admit I used to thrive on the constant feedback that regular journal updates provided and reinforcement that I was doing some good for the hobby.  It was addictive, and when the replies slowed down it was a little disappointing. 

I do miss journals and plan one in the near future - going back to my roots, so to speak.  Hopefully I'll find the time to update it regularly, just like the old days!

I can't speak for other 'competant' aquascapers but imagine some perhaps perceive their work in a different way.  Maybe they're also very busy with other stuff, or maybe they aren't motivated by constant feedback that others may enjoy.  Maybe it's something that reduces with experience - the need for reassurance that we're doing well, as we get more confident in our work.

It's an interesting topic, the whole motivation behind making our work public.  Worth a thread on its own even.

BTW, the Lilaeopsis idea sounds really good...


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

George mate. this wasnt guided at you. your one of the few that do post images of your tanks. the 6 year thread is a big hit. you've also posted your most recent tank.

i just wonder if other great scapers could do the same?.....a little more frequently, for the newcomers benefits?....

look, i dont want confrontation with anyone, it's not what I'm about. I'd just like to see a few more of the quality scapers showing there work so we can all benefit. i mean we got a guy who came 16th in the WORLD and ive only seen the one image of a great tank. this is by no means a disrespectful comment. i'm not so good at putting my feelings into text :? 

i also understand that people are busy, good god my self included, but I'm passionate beyond belief and i always find time to take and post images. if people can run 5 tanks surely they could share any experiences with others?....

this should be in another thread, and to be honest i'm not up to be fired at by the firing squad for just wanting others to help others.

ok, to the plants! they've arrived   

george lilaeopsis is becoming daunting and exciting at the same time. i've got 20 pots of the stuff to divide   see images






my little helper...





the job lot to be divided and planted....


----------



## Superman (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Wow, that's a lot of plants to use. That'll take some time to pull away from the rock wool. Enjoy.


----------



## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Crikey mate, that's a lot of plants!  Do you order them direct from AquaFleur by any chance?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

That's exacatly why you shouldn't stop posting in your journals, Mark! We all can learn from your journals, both beginners and experts - we can all take something from it and images play a big part in that. This is the reason why your journals are so popular, which is far from a bad thing. You don't need to give other people a chance to post their journals because if they want to then they will, and if we want to read it then we will. 

I bet you're looking forward to planting all that up! Just out of curiosity, you said you're planting tomorrow night - how do you keep the plants overnight?

Oh yeah, and I think Peter Kirwan's scape was featured in PFK some months ago and I'm sure there was more photos of the scape there.


----------



## Tony Swinney (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great pics Mark - how could any Ukaps member not get excited seeing those !!

These are the sort of threads that made me want to try plants, instead of just fish in my tank. A few months later and I seem to have plants everywhere - not laid out in beautiful "scapes" as such, but just planted up to see if I can grow them, and how they grow.  One day I might have one of those stunning scapes, but I know that it wont be without alot of help, comments and criticisms from other members - and that will only happen if I post alot of pictures along the way.  For me the 'journals' section is the most interesting one, and seeing how folks go about choosing their equipment, setting it up, hardscaping, planting, and pruning is where I gain the most knowledge and the belief that maybe I can do it too.

Hopefully, other newbies will flick through my journals and learn what not to do, and maybe what to do too.

I think this section will be a slightly lesser place without your journals Mark, so I'll definately be keeping an eye on your website.

Cheers

Tony


----------



## JamesM (19 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Damn, Mark, how organised are you?  

My wip tank is sitting on a kitchen table surrounded by kids toys, ironing, some tools and 2 sheets of mdf  

That lilaeopsis look lovely, can't wait to see more pics mate


----------



## Simon D (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Mark, keep up the good work and the pictures. 

I'm relatively new to this game and have a real jungle of plants in a 60 ltr. I guess I'm testing the water (so to speak) and seeing what I can grow (or can't)and how they develop before I go to a bigger tank. Without images from more experienced 'scapers I wouldn't have a clue what to do with them to make a decent display.

I subscribe to PFK and study the sections that are relevant to me (and read through the others!) but tangable knowledge is king. It's great to know someone's history and how long they've been trying, their sucesses and their failures. Your journals, or just the pictures alone, are important and inspirational to simpletons like myself.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

many thanks guys. tonight i'll provide many more images.



			
				Simon D said:
			
		

> I guess I'm testing the water (so to speak) and seeing what I can grow (or can't)and how they develop before I go to a bigger tank. Without images from more experienced 'scapers I wouldn't have a clue what to do with them to make a decent display.



kinda my point  


			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> These are the sort of threads that made me want to try plants, instead of just fish in my tank.





			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> * Quote Thomas McMillan



just trying to help   

now for me, i'm back on track with my journal. i got to go to work and slog my gutts out now....but what fun i'm going to have later


----------



## Tony Swinney (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> .but what fun i'm going to have later



"The Friday Night Project" eh ?   

Good luck with it, look forward to the pics.

Tony


----------



## Steve Smith (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Damn you early birds... I should be at work in like, 2 minutes 

*sips tea at home*


----------



## Garuf (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Not slept. 
How are things Mark all good in the hood? Saw you're having turmoil with the new scape? 
Don't do being all reclusive, your threads are revered, this forum would die if it weren't for people adding all the time, aquascaping world has made massive inroads on our traffic without losing another valued member.


----------



## samc (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

i agree keep posting the pics ill look foward to seeing it later on


----------



## aaronnorth (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

good luck  
there is another thread if anyoine else wants to carry their comments on journals.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

planted!


----------



## samc (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

AWSOME iv been waiting


----------



## JamesM (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

And it looks the Don man 8)


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

you'll have to ignore the lines at the front, the plan is for those to merge later in its life. i'll also do another image showing where each plant is as tenellus looks like liliaeopsis at the mo....

i've also got a fair few images of the process.

i gota get everything hooked up now


----------



## Steve Smith (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Beautiful Mark   How's the back ache?  Mine was killing me last weekend after my weeney 90cm plant-a-thon


----------



## Thomas McMillan (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

That looks amazing, Mark! It's got a much different feel to what I expected, but one that I like and thinks suits the scape well.


----------



## samc (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looks great! ill look foward to it maturing and turning into a real beauty   

does the e tenellus leaves allways stay like that or do they change? (still woundering weather to use it)


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> does the e tenellus leaves allways stay like that or do they change?



it takes on a completely different form. this is emerged form but given time it will transform in to something much more beautiful.   

i'll have better images tomorrow.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> That looks amazing, Mark! It's got a much different feel to what I expected, but one that I like and thinks suits the scape well.



cheers Thomas, it looks different to what i thought it would look like, really need to let nature take over now.



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Beautiful Mark  How's the back ache? Mine was killing me last weekend after my weeney 90cm plant-a-thon



i'm like an old man at the best of times   i find some easy ways of dividing plants. i spend most the time doing that, then planting becomes a dodle. it took half hour to plant that lot

i'm known as "our mark" at MA,  ....


----------



## samc (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> it takes on a completely different form. this is emerged form but given time it will transform in to something much more beautiful.
> 
> i'll have better images tomorrow.



thanks thought it did better make sure though  

our mark huh


----------



## George Farmer (20 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looking good mate.  

The transitions will be considerable - very exciting!


----------



## Tony Swinney (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looks nice Saintly - look forward to watching it grow


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

well, time is really going to play a massive part of this scape for me. usually when i plant up, i can see the whole thing fast forwarded before my eyes, but this one....i cant   i think because the liliaeopsis and tenellus blend in. it just seems one big mass of the same plant.

i'm only showing 1 or 2 images. the rest will be on my website which you can view in the near future   





splitting tenellus, usually aquafleur provide you with 2 or 3 plants which if picked apart will have one or 2 more growing off them....





splitting liliaeopsis....









tenellus  liliaeopsis and acicularis....





middway planting. The hc, by no means is to play a huge part in this. in fact it may end up not being seen at all. 





the second image shows heavy tenellus planting between left and middle stone.as Amano always recommends, plant tenellus at the side of stones to emphasize the stone.
the smallest stone is to create a barrier between tenellus and liliaeopsis due to the tenellus coming forward down the length of the left stone





i guess this is the last time you'll see for a while, liliaeopsis is new to me still so there may be mistakes to be made along the way...stay tuned!


----------



## chump54 (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

hey Mark, it's looking great, hardscape is fantastic, I'm now thinking about doing a rock layout, never thought I would. Very inspiring!

cheers
Chris


----------



## Tony Swinney (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great post Mark !  I love to see how things are done, and your journals always show that.

Hope you get time to have a cuppa and admire it this morning


----------



## hellohefalump (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looking really good, can't wait to see it fill in.


----------



## Mark Green (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great looking scape Mark,   

Your pictures are what i always wait for as they give me a better picture of what your doing   

Did you use all of the plants you ordered, as that looked like a very big order? 

Also when will your web site be up and running, so we can all see more?

 


Mark


----------



## aaronnorth (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looks great, nice too see it without the burnt out blackground that we have been seeing too.Makes quite a difference!

I bet you are wwell pleased to have a tank back again


----------



## TDI-line (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Ahh Saintly's scape, A+++ Excellent UKAPS'er.


----------



## StevenA (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great scape Saintly, I always look forward to the e-mails coming through my inbox to inform me of another post or thread on one of you're journals etc...    You're one of the most inspirational scapers on here, so much so that I've even started a small rock scape myself, because of viewing you're journal's. Keep up the great work mate


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> hey Mark, it's looking great, hardscape is fantastic, I'm now thinking about doing a rock layout, never thought I would. Very inspiring!



go for it chumps, you cant beat stones   



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Hope you get time to have a cuppa and admire it this morning
> Great post Mark ! I love to see how things are done, and your journals always show that.
> 
> Hope you get time to have a cuppa and admire it this morning



thanks mate, i've got my little leather sofa thingy type thing to sit on.



			
				hellohefalump said:
			
		

> looking really good, can't wait to see it fill in.



me to helena.



			
				Mark Green said:
			
		

> Also when will your web site be up and running, so we can all see more?



soon mate, it'l be sparse to begin with a couple of journals, galleries etc but will expand when i get time to add material. 



			
				Mark Green said:
			
		

> Did you use all of the plants you ordered, as that looked like a very big order?



i used all the liliaeopsis and tenellus. almost all acicualris, 4 pots HC   



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> looks great, nice too see it without the burnt out blackground that we have been seeing too.Makes quite a difference!
> 
> you cant imagine aaron how much i've missed having it! the wife hasnt missed it though  :?
> 
> ...



very kind words tourney,   always here to help.


----------



## Mark Evans (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

well, now the tanks settled down and water is clear, i've got my final planted image. the tank is to have a proper background, i'm still using a blanket for photography purposes, but you get the jist

as george points out, a name is important for an aquascape, so i'll let you know when i 've thought of one!

this should be the last image for a while now....





signing off!  8)


----------



## TDI-line (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Brilliant Mark.

As for a name, how about 'Mark, your dinner is in the oven.'    I think it's quite catchy.


----------



## Mark Evans (22 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> As for a name, how about 'Mark, your dinner is in the oven.



yeah, it has a ring to it...or "your dinner is in the dog"


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

lill update, 

HC is doing great, runners shooting out. liliaeopsis also starting to send out runners   (wipes brow)


----------



## Steve Smith (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> lill update,
> 
> HC is doing great, runners shooting out.



How the hell??  Mine's been in a week and looks pretty much like it did when I started!


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> How the hell?? Mine's been in a week and looks pretty much like it did when I started!



 i've got runners 1 inch long on some bits. it pearls like an absalut mother at night. the biggest oxygen bubbles i've seen. a bit better than my MA disaster when i nearly lost it all.


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

here steve....






i'm just trimming off old lili leaves as they die off


----------



## LondonDragon (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

>


I like the look of that soil!!! My shrimp tank is giving me problem and I think its the ADA Amazonia II, I might get a bag of that to replace the ADA Soil. Is that the finner version of the Oliver Knott substrate?


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

yeah, thats the fine grade stuff. you can actually see the larger bits compared to the smaller ones. 

it's not often i check water parameters but i did check my kh and it's gone from 8 or so from the tap to 3. PH has dropped considerably too. 8 from tap (co2 injection assisted) down to 6.5 (if i remember right)

i don't think it releases ammonia. not tested, but I'm sure it don't.


----------



## LondonDragon (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> it's not often i check water parameters but i did check my kh and it's gone from 8 or so from the tap to 3. PH has dropped considerably too. 8 from tap (co2 injection assisted) down to 6.5 (if i remember right)


Thanks for sharing that info, I am now really considering to buy some of this stuff since my Crystal reds prefer a lower PH and KH. Goodbye Amazonia II, would not recommend this stuff at all, given me lots of problems, stick to ADA Aquasoil Amaziona standard and not the II version!


----------



## JamesM (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

The Oli Knott NatureSoil substrate is well nice, and seems much firmer than any of the ADA Aqua Soil range and Red Sea Flora Base


----------



## jay (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I was always a bit unsure with soil lowering ph, especially as the Co2 we pump in lowers it also, and worried how doing WC with hard tap would swing the ph and be hard on the livestock.
But i've had wild checkerboard cichlids in my tank for about a week now and even they seem fine.
Wasn't aware that Oliver's soil lowered ph.


----------



## Garuf (24 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Mark, I'm a little confused, are you trimming the hc back already? Or just odd dead leaves from the HC?


----------



## George Farmer (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

You'll get a full HC coverage in 3 weeks or so, if it's like mine.  Planting stem by stem is the way forward and you can get so much coverage out of a few pots.  Same with any carpeting plant, so if you're on a budget, Iwagumi is a good option.

Should look really good in a month or so when all the plants start to merge.  Then the challenge of maitaining some order to reflect the minimal style of the stone will present new challenges, I imagine.   Should be fun!


----------



## glenn (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

hi, its been great watching the progression of your tank...and if your still stuck for a name, when i saw the hard scape lay out on its own with the 3 rocks 'rising sun' came to my mind right away.  dont know if this is a goofy name but its what i think of when i see it anyhow.


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> I was always a bit unsure with soil lowering ph, especially as the Co2 we pump in lowers it also, and worried how doing WC with hard tap would swing the ph and be hard on the livestock.



I've never had problems with the swing with AS jay   or don't appear too. 



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Mark, I'm a little confused, are you trimming the hc back already? Or just odd dead leaves from the HC?



i'm leaving the HC as it is, it's the tenellus and liliaeopsis i'm trimming...just old leaves that die off. 

the difference in new substarte compared to the old i used in my MA scape is amazing. much quicker with new gear.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Planting stem by stem is the way forward and you can get so much coverage out of a few pots.



very true. i also planted light in the front  to allow everything else to catch up. but it appears HC will cover in no time. even if the liliaeopsis comes to the front i wont be too bothered. it's the tenellus which is my concern  8)  it's becoming a pain in the MA tank, especially with me leaving it a week before I can do anything. I've trained matt the manager to trim now, as i just cant keep up with the maintenance.


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				glenn said:
			
		

> hi, its been great watching the progression of your tank...and if your still stuck for a name, when i saw the hard scape lay out on its own with the 3 rocks 'rising sun' came to my mind right away.  dont know if this is a goofy name but its what i think of when i see it anyhow.



hi glen, your along the right lines for sure,


----------



## Vito (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Love the layout mate, its going to be awesome for sure. I am curious as to your spec, I couldn't find it when flicking through the 22+ pages of your journal   

Vito


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> , I couldn't find it when flicking through the 22+ pages of your journal



 sorry vito,here it is or alternatively click on my sig.

*the spec*

120 x 45 x 45 tank
depleted AS, 2 x oliver knott substrate
bacter 100
coppice green stone 
pressurised co2 @ a million bubbles per second
EI full dosing from day one
2 x 54wt5 6hours per day.
1 x 2028
1 x korolia no2

and the usual saintly pic


----------



## Steve Smith (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> and the usual saintly pic



Damit Mark, stop being embarassed with your quality pics   The more the merrier


----------



## plantbrain (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

This would have been a good tank for the Dry start method, all these species do very well.
Zero work. I have some hair grass and microsword outside that made it through the winter in a Dry tank. Growing like mad now as the temp are coming up.  I have a 38 Gal, 60cm cubish DSM more a Chinese style rock scape with just HC coming up. 
The HC is about 60% filled in from a single pot of HC, so now I have about 20X as much in 3 weeks. I'll fill the tank with water in about 2-3 weeks. I always get impatient and recall some old advice, "wait to trim or set it up another week after you cannot stand it". 

Tank looks nice!

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Tony Swinney (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great stuff Mark   

Can you single out one thing that you do, thats gets the growth going so strong, so quickly ?  I know its a combination of everything and different for every tank, but I just wonder if there is something in particular that makes a big difference - substrate, bacter 100, oodles of CO2 ? 

Keep up the "artsy-fartsy" stuff    

Ta

Tony


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Damit Mark, stop being embarassed with your quality pics  The more the merrier



i know mate, just cant help myself sometimes. i'll save most for the site though   



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> This would have been a good tank for the Dry start method, all these species do very well.



interesting tom. i'm not 100%familiar with the dry start method. i presume everything is emerged?.....i have a hug difference in height from the foreground to the rear. 2.5 inch- 10 inch at the back. how would you dry  start that? wouldn't the back dry out completely? 



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> I always get impatient and recall some old advice, "wait to trim or set it up another week after you cannot stand it".



typical me   



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Can you single out one thing that you do, thats gets the growth going so strong, so quickly ? I know its a combination of everything and different for every tank, but I just wonder if there is something in particular that makes a big difference - substrate, bacter 100, oodles of CO2 ?



i don't know mate. from following great advice from guys like the tom bar and CEG, my life has become easier. plants need co2 and ferts....so i give it to em...in a big way!   substrates are vital IMO. not sure the bacter 100 does anything, i only put it in because I've got it, and at 20 odd quid i'm not wasting it   



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Keep up the "artsy-fartsy" stuff



will do


----------



## aaronnorth (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

the substrate looks very nice, i thought it wasnt ADA the first time i looked.


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> the substrate looks very nice, i thought it wasnt ADA the first time i looked.



it's not mate, it's the oli knott stuff. or was that a typo?  8)


----------



## aaronnorth (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i cant spot a mistake in my post? lol 

i said i thought it wasn't ADA the first time i looked


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i cant spot a mistake in my post? lol



aaron you know how to confuse me   OK, i'll just say...yes LOL

ahhh, so you spotted it wasn't ADA substrate?....I'm with ya now. I'll go back to sleep now   

it's good stuff mate!


----------



## aaronnorth (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yes, lol


----------



## glenn (25 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

so what your virdict of the new olliver knott substrate?


----------



## Vito (26 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> pressurised co2 @ a million bubbles per second



LOL! you co2 must go very quickly, do you have any livestock in there at the moment? or do you have the co2 on high for the early stages of your tank? do you have a drop checker, if so what colour is it reading? I just want to know because my HC growth is slow, although I suspect me red eye's are eating it and I want some monster growth but my leaves shrunk much smaller than when there were in the pots, still looking nice and green, is this normal have you experianced this?
I just want a HC carpet! hehe

Love the pic!

Vito


----------



## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				glenn said:
			
		

> so what your virdict of the new olliver knott substrate?



so far?....brilliant stuff. it works in exactly the same way as ADA AS. i think i said this before, but my KH last night was 2....it's 8 from the tap! my PH is 6.0. now those that use a co2 calculater should pick themselves up off the floor now   i don't believe in em'. I've got a drop checker for curiosity and it reads yellow.but i knew it would

i put 1 shrimp in yesterday to test the water. he was fine so in went 7 more. there all OK today going around munching stuff  . it just goes to show you cant always believe what your gauges and readings are telling you.

this is the fastest HC growth I've had with semi non ada products. (and i've had the lot believe me) i've got depleted AS in the bottom, BUT in my ma scape with the same as and JBL aquabasis plus i haven't got the same growth....it's good but not like this. i think ADA have a competitor now. 

it's still early days, and it's not a sole nature soil scape but I'm well impressed. I'm doing a sole nature soil scape soon so i can give a better verdict!



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> LOL! you co2 must go very quickly, do you have any livestock in there at the moment? or do you have the co2 on high for the early stages of your tank? do you have a drop checker, if so what colour is it reading? I just want to know because my HC growth is slow,



hopefully some of the above may help?....just keep adding co2 slowly. drop checkers dont work IMO BUT do it in increments. i'm always surprised at what co2 you can inject with out fish even become phased.



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> LOL! you co2 must go very quickly,



i'm lucky enough to be supplied free. other wise i'd get a solenoid fitted.



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> I want some monster growth but my leaves shrunk much smaller than when there were in the pots, still looking nice and green, is this normal have you experianced this?



i'm not sure about that one. mine tend to stay the same. 

her's a couple of images from this morning. you can see the HC is on a mision...






the liliaeopsis was my concern but it's sprouting up new shoots....


----------



## Themuleous (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I'll be interested to see the lilaeopsis as I've seen it in my local MA but never ventured towards it.

BTW what lighting you got?  This I'm also interested in to see if I can get any tips from this tank for my 120cm 

Sam


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> I'll be interested to see the lilaeopsis as I've seen it in my local MA but never ventured towards it.



i too was scared but i did try it before hand to see if i could grow it. i'm glad i've got it now. it's sending out runners a quite a rate now. some are over 2 inches long. some must be spreading under the substrate too as there popping up in random places about an inch from the main plant.



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> BTW what lighting you got?



i'm running 2 x 54w t5 for 6 hours per day.



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> This I'm also interested in to see if I can get any tips from this tank for my 120cm



i'm sure theres more experience her but soon i'll do a little write up on how i split the liliaeopsis and planted it. the aquafleur stuff was real thick and well grown stuff. and i had to figure out a real easy way of splitting it...which i think i managed.remember though mine was novae species.....not the tropica stuff

 it might be wrong but it's worked a treat for me. that should be on the site within a week.


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

17 amano shrimp enter the display


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

not a lot to report really. the tenellus is now transforming into it's immersed form. the flow stalks?....there growing like mad getting longer all the time. usually I'd cut the skyward ones off but I'm curious to see how far they'll go.

these, in the image, are about 10 inches long,  





you can also now start distinguish the difference between tenellus and liliaeopsis    i didnt burn this background neither, this is (for a change) a direct RAW conversion. i have the light towards the front darkening the back naturely


----------



## Tony Swinney (30 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hi Mark - looking good there   

Are the 'flow stalks' from the E Tenellus   I've never seen them before ?

Looks like the liliaeopsis is shaping up in to a nice carpet   

Cheers

Tony


----------



## Stu Worrall (30 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looking very good saintly. wish I could get my HC growing that quickly from the off!  

Could you let us know what frequency you water changes have been since you started?


----------



## Mark Evans (30 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Hi Mark - looking good there
> 
> Are the 'flow stalks' from the E Tenellus I've never seen them before ?
> 
> ...



cheers mate. the stalks are originally for flowers in it's emerged state. usually when i've planted tenellus, they just dont do anything and die. but these are going absolutely  mental   

the liliaeopsis is doing real





			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> looking very good saintly. wish I could get my HC growing that quickly from the off!
> 
> Could you let us know what frequency you water changes have been since you started?


 good thanks.

i do 2 x 50% a week for the first 6 weeks, dosing EI and real high co2. from the image you can see the shrimp have buried the hc (left of picture) they pick up the substarte and it rolls down the steep incline   

the HC is filling in nicely. 9 days old

my little lad loves getting his chair and standing on it.

goodness, i'm posting more images on here than my own site


----------



## Mark Evans (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

for anyone that's interested I've added a handful of images to my gallery,  120cm and MA the MA page will be updated over the next few days. 

http://www.plantedbox.com/?page_id=185

cheers,

mark


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

and another update. it may be right it maybe wrong. it worked for me.  

 just trying to help.

http://www.plantedbox.com/?cat=6

mark


----------



## samc (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

by the way that was me if you woundered what stranger popped a comment


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> by the way that was me if you woundered what stranger popped a comment



i guessed it was you samc   

thanks you my friend.


----------



## LondonDragon (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Tanks looking good Mark, nice write up on the dividing the plant too, I am thinking of using it in my scape so that will come handy, do you think it can be trimmed like grass and not have an ill effect on the plant?? to keep it short?? thanks


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> do you think it can be trimmed like grass and not have an ill effect on the plant?? to keep it short??



good question paulo. one i still need to explore my self. my guess is, the cut leaf would die, but I'll experiment. it's a slow grower so pruning may not be needed.


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

untouched, not photos hoped not anything! straight from camera RAW conversion.

thansk for looking

The west wing!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Your camera does borders? 

It's looking pretty grown in already!

We demand a full frontal


----------



## samc (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

nice! you can see the rocks really well on that photo too


----------



## Steve Smith (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

The novazelandi (spelling?) looks lush!  Great stuff


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Your camera does borders?



a minor detail Thomas. drag and drop onto a PSD file. the image is untouched....for a change.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> We demand a full frontal



not on your nelly!    



			
				samc said:
			
		

> nice! you can see the rocks really well on that photo too



it's amazing stone samc, truly. and 20p a kilo, it makes me smile every time  i look at it   

there's 18 amano shrimp in there, and 5 lemon tetras, just for feeding purposes and to get filters running to full strength....i think it's done like that right?.....

anyway, for everyone's purpose, I'll be adding images to my site, so just check that on occasions for further updates


----------



## samc (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> it's amazing stone samc, truly. and 20p a kilo, it makes me smile every time i look at it



i also think i have found the right stone!! a new shop has opened near me i noticed in the paper that sell rocks for garden, water features ect, so i looked on there website and they have a great looking stone not as cheap as yours but at Â£1.30 per kg its still cheap to me


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> looks lush! Great stuff



thansk steve. it's no where near close to being grown in, it's going to be sometime i reckon, but every bit of lilaeopsis is sending  out runners now   tenellus has settled in now, so i gota be on my toes with that one.


----------



## samc (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

could you by any chance put thing in your tips and tricks bit of your website of how you treat e tenellus from emersed from and trimming ect    you dont have to but this would really help me and i think alot of other people are unaware of how to treat it also


----------



## JamesM (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I know Mark has many tips planned, its just a matter of fitting everything in to 24 hours  Great idea though, I'm sure more suggestions, comments and requests can only be beneficial to all


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> could you by any chance put thing in your tips and tricks bit of your website of how you treat e tenellus from emersed from and trimming ect  you dont have to but this would really help me and i think alot of other people are unaware of how to treat it also



I'll certainly add info on it samc. i'll do little (basic)write up's on plants that I've used.(not may   ) they maybe wrong, but should help some people to some degree.


----------



## samc (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

it will help thanks. i have a rough idea but u seem to have it sorted


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> it will help thanks. i have a rough idea but u seem to have it sorted



just keep an eye out.

actually,We'd also be willing to accept contributions in the form of articles to be used on the site. If you have tips and tricks or experience you'd like to share, feel free to email us your ideas


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

here's a picture


----------



## TDI-line (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Lovely pic Mark. 8)


----------



## Tony Swinney (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looking great Mark - love the look of the lilaeopsis 'lawn'.  Looks like your tank doesnt need any PS work - I spend hours retouching all the algae out of my pics   

Come on, give us a full frontal   

Tony


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

so, what do people think to emperor tetras?.....





i've added 4 just to see what they look like. i get to choose and try before i buy now.


----------



## Steve Smith (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

They look pretty good.  The hint of red/purple seems to suit the slight colouration of the rock   I have read that Emperors can be quite fragile though, might be worth double checking


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> I have read that Emperors can be quite fragile though



these little critters have settled in a treat. chasing each other. quite funny actually. i'm as green as the grass in my garden when it comes to fish. i didnt want to take the "cardinal" route. i'll just keep swapping until i find something i like.

thanks for the reply steve!


----------



## GreenNeedle (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Thanks for the pictures Mark 

AC


----------



## Fred Dulley (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

The most recent shot is awesome.  8) 
Might be the picture but they look quite small?


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the pictures Mark



just trying to do my best for the journals andy   

so this is the closets you'll get to a full tank shot. i want to enter this into ADA next year see. and what with rules and guidelines, one must conform to them.

2 weeks old






see the "bald" bit in the middle?....damn shrimp keep covering the hc and i have to uncover it


----------



## Verminator (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hopefully once the tank fills out to its true potential the shrimp will be too preocupied with the rest of your tank to keep covering your HC. Stunning tank, i've skipped through a few pages and don't recall seeing what lighting specs your using


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Verminator said:
			
		

> Stunning tank, i've skipped through a few pages and don't recall seeing what lighting specs your using



thanks   

lighting is 2 x 54w t5 6 hours per day.


----------



## Themuleous (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Lovely, just lovely. Doesn't it make you wish you had it at home though? 

I'm trying to talk my local MA into letting me scape one of their tanks, trouble is I just hope its not better than any of my tanks!!

Sam


----------



## JamesM (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Lovely, just lovely. Doesn't it make you wish you had it at home though?
> 
> I'm trying to talk my local MA into letting me scape one of their tanks, trouble is I just hope its not better than any of my tanks!!
> 
> Sam


That one is at home, Sam


----------



## Joecoral (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> so this is the closets you'll get to a full tank shot. i want to enter this into ADA next year see. and what with rules and guidelines, one must conform to them.



I wish there was a banging-head-against-a-wall smiley


----------



## Themuleous (4 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Haha  woops!  I loose track of your tanks sometimes!

Sam


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> I'm trying to talk my local MA into letting me scape one of their tanks, trouble is I just hope its not better than any of my tanks!!



but sam, you allways want it to better than your last tank right?.....or what's the point?. why create something that's of a lesser standard than your last?

anyhow, cheers for the words. it is hard to keep track of what I'm up to. i sometimes forget what i'm doing/saying.   

i'm even planning a 200cm tank  8)  to get better you just need to scape,scape and then some more scaping


----------



## George Farmer (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> I'm trying to talk my local MA into letting me scape one of their tanks, trouble is I just hope its not better than any of my tanks!!


Go for it mate.  I'm doing the same for a brand new MA store that's not opened yet.

I'd encourage other UKAPS members to do the same for their LFS.  Take in a photo and explain what you can do.  Spread the word!

Tank's looking sweet, Mark.  I  usually add shrimp after HC has rooted...


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Tank's looking sweet, Mark.



cheers mate, i'm pleased with it. the problem with the shrimp is not so much them up rooting, it's the fact that they just chuck the nature soil all over. i suppose waiting until i get good coverage would help.

it looks like the ukaps massive could take over MA stores


----------



## Superman (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Hehe, cheeky shrimps.

My LFS has an open night next week, hopefully when I'm there I'm going to discuss a few things with them, maybe the possibility of doing a display tank when they setup a new planted one. The only problem is that they already have beautiful planted tanks. If not I'll have a chat with them about it when I pickup my CRS.


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

rummy nose tetras! there the future. i've put 4 of these in today, and i love em' there truly brilliant, so this is my fish of choice for this set up.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I think Rummies are a great choice, they'll suit the feel of this scape well


----------



## George Farmer (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

A classic fish choice.  Probably one of the tightest schooling tetra too.  Superb for photography if they colour up well.

Do you know which species it is?





Nice one, Mark.


----------



## jay (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looking beautiful Mark, and great choice with the rummies. You wont regret that.
Anyway, not sure if you've said already, but what fert measures are you dosing?


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Looking beautiful Mark, and great choice with the rummies. You wont regret that.



they are nice. i've always wanted to try them. now's the time.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Superb for photography if they colour up well.



when they slow down, there quick little things. i cant wait ti get 40 of them.

i didnt realise there were different types. top or bottom?


----------



## samc (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

rummies are starting to grow on me now id say from the pic they are true rummies


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> id say from the pic they are true rummies



twas what i was thinking


----------



## Themuleous (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

They've got great colouring  it can be a bit muted sometimes I find, but those look quality.

Sam


----------



## JamesM (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Nice choice of fish bud


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Nice choice of fish bud



there brilliant things matey   i've always fancied them, never thought if they'd fit in to any of may scapes, but they suit this one me thinks


----------



## fish.com1 (8 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I believe the true rummynoses aren't as colourful as the false rummynose (petitella georgiae).


----------



## Thomas McMillan (8 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I think true Rummies have a slight green tinge to them, less of a red nose and slightly smaller.


----------



## Steve Smith (8 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Fantastic choice of fish matey  should set the scape off nicely...


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

here's the liliaeopsis on it's own little mission to rule the world....






and an arty farty thingy


----------



## Steve Smith (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> here's the liliaeopsis on it's own little mission to rule the world....



Go little fella!  Looking very healthy mate


----------



## samc (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

looks to have grown in well and healthy. awsome


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

thanks steve and sam.

looks like it could take an age to grow in!


----------



## TDI-line (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Great pics Mark, you should be pro.


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> Great pics Mark, you should be pro.



nah, i'm no where near good enough!   thats why i quit


----------



## Verminator (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Fantastic tank. Coming along nicely. Does anyone else have problems with rummynose eating plants? I've had them the last 4 years in my 3ft and they ate all my HC and E. Tenellus. I've heard other reports of rummynose's eating plants too occasionally. Hope you don't have such an issue as i did, they are truely stunning fish. Mine schoaled really well and were always together in unision


----------



## Thomas McMillan (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Mark, when do the fish go in?


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Mark, when do the fish go in?



a few at a time Thomas, although i've swapped filters for my 4 month old 2028. the difference in water clarity is amazing after just a couple of days of running. 

i've also put some massive cherry shrimp, a couple being pregas   so hopefully there population should explode and set to work along with the amanos. also 6 ottos have gone in today.

all seems happy in the tank.  8)



			
				Verminator said:
			
		

> Fantastic tank. Coming along nicely.



thanks


----------



## JamesM (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Looking good bud 


On a side note...

*start public service announcement*

With plantedbox.com now up and running, I'm free to take on more design projects and will consider anything from simple personal websites, to commercial e-commerce sites.

Contact me for details 

*end public service announcement*


----------



## Themuleous (11 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Nice to see the liliaeopsis taking off 

Sam


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Nice to see the liliaeopsis taking off



yeah, it's flying now. reaching the front glass now and invading everywhere as is the tenellus. i've got a few decisions to make now.

i don't want to take away from this journal but there's a pic or 2 added here....nothing to exciting.

http://www.plantedbox.com/?p=370&page=2

even with wonky substarte....yes, yes i will sort it


----------



## Steve Smith (11 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Was tempted by some liliaopsis today but I resisted. Couldn't think where I'd use it though  Maybe in a future scape...


----------



## Mark Evans (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

my son like's to get in on the act and make a few decisions.....





also choosing fish.....


----------



## Themuleous (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Haha cool 

Sam


----------



## samc (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

 was it really you that chose thm rummies


----------



## Mark Evans (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> was it really you that chose thm rummies



kinda. he says he likes the fish with the poorly faces   kids eh?.....

I'm actually liking the blue emperors  now they've coloured up, but they are a little skittish. so rummies it still is


----------



## Jur4ik (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I hope your son can handle with lily pipes better then me, because IÂ´ve broken already the scond one


----------



## plantbrain (13 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

I broke 2 myself and that it for me.
They need cleaned etc to look nice too.
 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

OF AN EVENING THE TENELLUS PEARLS LIKE CRAZY. (SOZ CAPS Off)

you can see the leaves covered in bubbles


----------



## TDI-line (14 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*

Lovely pic Mark. 8) 

How many Rummies have you got now?


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> How many Rummies have you got now?
> Lovely pic Mark. 8)
> 
> How many Rummies have you got now?



still just the 3. i'm getting half a dozen more at the weekend   

actually i've got a name for this scape.....

"Prairie Lands"


----------



## TDI-line (14 Apr 2009)

*Re: saintly's 120cm iwagumi*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> TDI-line said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice. Sounds really well thought out.

Maybe i should go for some fancy names for my scapes....nah.


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Apr 2009)

i'd been racking my brains for ages and on the way home i passed a field full of new plants, it looked similar to lilaeopsis but on a huge scale, that made me think of grassy plains. then prairie lands popped in my head.

just seemed right for the scape


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## samc (14 Apr 2009)

great name mark. never thought e tenellus would pearl ether, must be doing well


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## fish.com1 (15 Apr 2009)

I was all confused when i saw the title, i thought you'd got another tank going


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## George Farmer (15 Apr 2009)

I thought you may call it 'Stegosaurus', Mark, looking at the profile of the rocks...    

Mark - are your LFS staff ok with you changing fish etc?  My LFS frown upon it a little, claiming it compromises their welfare.

It does raise some interesting issues regarding using fish as more 'cosmetic' items and I have been 'guilty' of it in the past. 

Steven Chong created an interesting thread on this subject on APC a few years ago - fish as 'pals or paintstrokes'.


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## jay (15 Apr 2009)

I've never been guilty of picking fish for cosmetic purposes for a 'scape. Anyone who saw my tank right now could tell i'm still a fishkeeper at heart before an aquascaper  

But i really dont see the problem with trading fish when a 'scape is over... maybe a little bad on the fish, having to leave a well maintained planted tank


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## aaronnorth (16 Apr 2009)

evertime i take my fish back the staff usually nab them  I have only taken some large rainbows, clown loaches and cichlids back - all which were worth some money and beautiful fish too.
I actually might use some rainbows in my tank thinking about...


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## Mark Evans (18 Apr 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Mark - are your LFS staff ok with you changing fish etc? My LFS frown upon it a little, claiming it compromises their welfare.
> 
> It does raise some interesting issues regarding using fish as more 'cosmetic' items and I have been 'guilty' of it in the past.
> 
> Steven Chong created an interesting thread on this subject on APC a few years ago - fish as 'pals or paintstrokes'.



i do sometimes think about the welfare of fish, but i'd only take them back to a store where i know they'd be looked after, after re introduction to display tanks.my MA store is pretty good, and respects the fish's welfare. i know of others that are not so good.

i still only have a handful of fish in this set up, and actually i'm still unsure as to which fish to choose. :?  the emperors look amazing now, but don't shoal too well. rummis shoal brilliantly, but dart about all the while.

the tank currently is on grow fast mode, lilaeopsis is the fastest growing plant now and i've more or less resined to the fact that it's going to take over the foreground. i've also got green on my stones which I'm hating, i've got half a dozen nerites coming Monday, so hopefully they'll help out....not sure whether to post an image or not of my green stone


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## George Farmer (18 Apr 2009)

Nice one, Mark.

My experience with 'green rocks' are that a scrub with a toothbrush does the trick, and any ingrained algae adds to the natural look.

Nerites can be effective but they are known to lay eggs that are incredibly tough to remove.  They appear as bright white spots that _can_ look more unsightly than green algae.  In some cases they aren't an issue though, so I guess it's a risk worth taking.


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## Thomas McMillan (19 Apr 2009)

I still think Rummies are the fish for this scape.  My Nerites have never laid eggs, and even if they do I'm sure it won't post that much of a problem.


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## Nick16 (19 Apr 2009)

i get lots of snail eggs but they just stay there, on the underside of wood, where i cant see them.


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

ok, as well as the good i guess I'll show you the bad too  :? 

2 things bugging me!

1 is....green stones.   i think i've over done everything in every department too soon.

the other.... scum on the surface.

actually, i'm over the worst of the scum after regular W/C but you can still see it in the images. i only ever get it at this house.....

and hopefully time, and a forever strengthening filter should remedy the stones, along with algae eaters. i.e snails

here's a couple of pics, nothing too extravagant , just to show the progress. considering the problems, the plants are flourishing!


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## samc (21 Apr 2009)

wow amazing growth youve got.
might be worth checking your cistern as something might be polluting your water


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## Fred Dulley (21 Apr 2009)

Looking very lush and healthy there, Mark.
Regarding the rocks, as George has mentioned already, toothbrush works well. Alternatively you could try ADA/Amano method. This includes draining the tank to expose the rocks and with paintbrush, coat the rock in Python Git.   Up for the challenge?  8)


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> wow amazing growth youve got.



it is pretty rampant now.



			
				samc said:
			
		

> might be worth checking your cistern as something might be polluting your water



something is wrong for sure. 

i've just got an old toothbrush on the stone, and it comes of a doddle, so i may give em a scrub


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Regarding the rocks, as George has mentioned already, toothbrush works well. Alternatively you could try ADA/Amano method. This includes draining the tank to expose the rocks and with paintbrush, coat the rock in Python Git.  Up for the challenge? 8)



mmmm....i may look into that!


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

i've just spent 5 minutes with a toothbrush, and they've come up gleaming! i thought it'd be a night,mare but it was a doddle! just doing a huge W/C


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

as james has just reminded me, i did once clean my stones with a toothbrush on the henge. 

someone send me a new brain?......


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## JamesM (21 Apr 2009)

Only if you pay postage


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

and after a quick scrub.....






ignore the wife on the sofa  8)


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## JamesM (21 Apr 2009)

Sssshhhhweeeeet


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## TDI-line (21 Apr 2009)

Looks great Mark, i do like the green rocks too.


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## Nick16 (21 Apr 2009)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Sssshhhhweeeeet



your ment to be looking at the tank


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## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2009)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> Looks great Mark, i do like the green rocks too.



thanks mate, 

the rocks were horrid. they shine now, i have to wear sunglasses   8)


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## JamesM (21 Apr 2009)

Nick16 said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I already warned Mark that people with a foot fetish will be drooling right now  No me though. Feet smell all feety.


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## Nick16 (21 Apr 2009)

aha, yeah, least jokes are light hearted on this forum. i get slated for joking on TFF, its pathetic, people think i cant keep fish becuase i just tell jokes!   

anyway saintly, the tank is looking pretty amazing.


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## LondonDragon (21 Apr 2009)

Tank is looking great Mark  I did also like the green rocks hehe 
Nice photography as always


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## samc (21 Apr 2009)

looks alot cleaner now and have you moved the tank from where it was or is that just me


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## JamesM (21 Apr 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> looks alot cleaner now and have you moved the tank from where it was or is that just me


Nope, the tank is in the same place - he moved the stairs


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## aaronnorth (22 Apr 2009)

JamesM said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol, tanks looking great (and the stones - nice work!). Did you still use the electric toothbrush?


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2009)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Did you still use the electric toothbrush?



yes, but by hand. the battery was flat   



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> he moved the stairs



yep, notice the horrid wall paper?....i chose it, shows you what taste i dont have   



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Tank is looking great Mark  I did also like the green rocks hehe



it is nice to see the stones though again LD


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2009)

and today after W/C and a time to clear...


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## aaronnorth (22 Apr 2009)

we was going to have that wallpaper lol. 

I see the HC is still having a hard time covering the front


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2009)

i've trimmed it thats why. it was getting bushy so i just snipped it down to size, it just gets tighter over time. not sure if thats the right way, but it works for me. i could of had it covered by now, but it would look "loose"


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2009)

the last snap for a while.


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## Mark Evans (25 Apr 2009)

last snap for a while?...yeah, right.....  

here's sideways, looking down the tank. i've come in for a tight crop to show some of the 16 rummies   ........ not quite TDI-LINE standards but i will get there in the end.

the tank looks huge, but what your seeing is the reflection off the glass. i did take a shot with my 15mm lens (full frame sensor  ) and that made it look massive!


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## samc (25 Apr 2009)

awsome shot mark and lovely rummies too saw some the other day and they do shoal great, even in the small tank i saw them in


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## aaronnorth (25 Apr 2009)

nice shot, the tank seems to go on forever. I need to start learning about focal length.


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## Mark Evans (25 Apr 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> awsome shot mark and lovely rummies too



thanks sam.



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> nice shot, the tank seems to go on forever. I



i do enjoy looking down the side. everytime i turn around from my comp it's there. dont forget though aaron, in a way, it's like photographing a tank that is 120cm in depth (and 45 cm wide   )


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## Dave Spencer (25 Apr 2009)

Due to extreme laziness, I am going to ask you what the grassy plant is, rather than do some reading. :?  Is it L. brasiliensis?

Dave.


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## Mark Evans (25 Apr 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Due to extreme laziness,



i dont blame you Dave, 346, now 7 post's is extreme reading.

it's novae zealandie, and is turning out to be quite a nice plant. 

i spoke with george earlier about the odd woe or 2 with this tank. also on other forums, i've had similar feedback with regards the "hedge line" from HC to liliaeopsis. i just didn't realise what would happen, but then that's why we try things. TBH, i'm bored with this already and want to start over. there's the issue with the HC too.

i've got decisions! take out hc AND LET LILAEOPSIS do its thing? or give it a few more weeks and start again..... the second sounds like more fun


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## TDI-line (25 Apr 2009)

Awesome pic Mark, and i laughed at the above reference.


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## aaronnorth (26 Apr 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> Dave Spencer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i would go for the 1st option. AT least then you can see what a full carpet looks like plus it may look better than the HC which is good if you are entering any competitions.


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## Mark Evans (26 Apr 2009)

OK, it seems theres an answer. The HC has to go. it's getting choked by liliaeopsis now. so the sensible thing to do is get rid. then i can level the substarte at the front    

the black backing has gone temporarily, so i can play with image ideas.....this is only tungsten lighting shining on wall, not the 2 x strobes i'm going to hire (hopefully)i need to iron out the lines on the wall





today i've also trimmed the tenellus for the first time. i always like this as it fills the room with a lemony smell   

anyway, before....





after....





there's a lot to be said for black backgrounds too! hides everything. but then it is short term.


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## vauxhallmark (26 Apr 2009)

But you haven't yet removed the HC have you? It looks like it's still there in the 'after shot'. Do you mean you will remove it in the future, but not now?

Looking good anyway!

Mark


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## Mark Evans (26 Apr 2009)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> . Do you mean you will remove it in the future, but not now?



this coming week it will be gone. the first pic is cropped showing just liliaopsis and it looks ok. so removing the HC wont be so much of a big deal (visually)



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> Looking good anyway!



glad you like


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## TDI-line (26 Apr 2009)

I like your wallpaper.


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## Vito (26 Apr 2009)

Looking awesome Saintly, If your getting rid of the HC I will happily take if off your hands


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## Tony Swinney (27 Apr 2009)

Looks great Mark, I love the lileapolis.   You've got to keep to you 'signature' black backgrounds though   

Look forward to its continuation, or to the tanks rebirth !

Cheers

Tony


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## LondonDragon (27 Apr 2009)

Tank is looking great, just wondering one thing, I notice you have the tank right infront of the radiator, won't this affect tank temperatures when you have the heating on??


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## Dan Crawford (27 Apr 2009)

That looks really nice mate


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## luismoniz (28 Apr 2009)

Great iwagumi!


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## Mark Evans (30 Apr 2009)

thanks guys. comments from guys like luis and such, make's me feel like i'm doing something right.

BUT.....this scape is now over! ripped down! caput!

I'll go into detail on my site, but i've faced some major issues with water quality which i just couldn't get over. after a few discussions with Clive and my mate jamesm, the root problem couldn't be reached, but slowly as i went through the break down process all became clear...almost!

so long live prairie lands in our memories.

here's 5 bags of goodness ready for the next scape....





thats actually my hardscape practice room at mums,


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## LondonDragon (30 Apr 2009)

woohooo happy days  those bags look familiar haha


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## George Farmer (30 Apr 2009)

You're not having much luck with this tank mate?  Two 'scapes, two premature stripdowns?

Good luck with the next one!


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## LondonDragon (30 Apr 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> You're not having much luck with this tank mate?  Two 'scapes, two premature stripdowns?
> 
> Good luck with the next one!




Third time lucky, or just an excuse to rescape!! Wanna do mine next?? Bring those bags with you


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## Mark Evans (30 Apr 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Two 'scapes, two premature stripdowns?



yep, i'm/tank is jinxed me thinks.

the problem has progressively got worse. it's making me believe that using brand new substartes has to be the way forward. the base layer of this tank consisted of old AS that had dead fish/shrimps etc. it was left for a while (not dry) then re used. anyway, when i pulled the stones out, i got a real strong wiff of death and putridness(is that a word?) it was horrid.

surface scum was an issue too, but when i switched co2 off it vanished. clive thinks the co2 maybe at fault. (not co2) 

thanks fully, i know it's not me thats to blame with this tank, just a combination of tightness with substarte, possibly tainted gas and also possibly dodgy stones. and lack of de chlorinater from the off.

when i look at MA scape, i just cant believe the same person had done both tanks. the MA scape glows at the moment.especially with a korolia 1 pointing at the HC, it's brightest greenest i've grown.

brand new everything this time


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## Mark Evans (30 Apr 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Third time lucky, or just an excuse to rescape!! Wanna do mine next?? Bring those bags with you



 a bit of both mate.

i'm doing my 60 first as i want to check 1 or 2 things before committing to the 120. i still have doubts over my water. (paranoid) when drinking my water, i can only compare it with the local swimming baths...nearly 95% of the time


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## Mark Evans (30 Apr 2009)

and if it fails a 3rd time, thats it! i'm selling everything!


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## JamesM (30 Apr 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> and if it fails a 3rd time, thats it! i'm selling everything!


... to me for a fiver!


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## LondonDragon (30 Apr 2009)

JamesM said:
			
		

> ... to me for a fiver!


I will give him a tenner 

Woohoo new Journal too


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## TDI-line (1 May 2009)

RIP Prairie Lands.   


Did you get the fine or normal Oli Knott mudlike stuff  ?


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## John Starkey (1 May 2009)

Hi mark,I am sure you will get it right,(it's like mixing groundbait getting the  right blend)mark and I know an at we are on about,  
Regards john.


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## Dave Spencer (1 May 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> Two 'scapes, two premature stripdowns



Still suffering from premature stripdown, Mark?  



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> ...i know it's not me thats to blame with this tank.....



That`s the spirit. I have a 4 year old I can blame my 60cm disaster on.  

I often re use Amazonia, as I am a bit tight too. I`ve never had problems doing this, even after drying out. When I put it back in, it still has the nice earthy smell from when the packet is first opened. Perhaps there were a few dead critters in there. All those toxins around the plant roots sure won`t help.

Dave.


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## Mark Evans (1 May 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> stripdown, Mark?



sadly i'm not laughing dave, but i'm glad it makes you laugh. funny that, we dont hear from you all that often  8) 

anyway, back to the drawing board.


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## Garuf (1 May 2009)

Mark, mannnn... I was waiting to see this matured so badly. Best of luck with the new tank, I'm sure it will be another winner.


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## JamesM (1 May 2009)

As you know, I'm gutted for you Mark 

Round three has always been my favourite round for a knockout though, I'm sure you'll score the winning blow this time around


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## Dave Spencer (1 May 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> sadly i'm not laughing dave, but i'm glad it makes you laugh. funny that, we dont hear from you all that often  8)



Christ!!! You took that personally, didn`t you?  

I have clearly chronicled my misfortunes in my 60cm, and people are free to comment on any level they like. Don`t take it so seriously, mate. It`s only a hobby.

You don`t hear from too often because you know how to scape and don`t need my advice.

Dave.


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## Mark Evans (1 May 2009)

i'm just touchy due to the fact this tank is costing me a fortune. i do apologies if i came across, upset. 8) 

anyway, the tank is still full of water, nothing else. and i can still say it stinks! real bad.


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## aaronnorth (1 May 2009)

good luck with the next scape Mark, it must be costing you a bomb,
Nice collection of hardscape too


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## samc (1 May 2009)

shame to hear about this mark. ino the cost parts hits me hard too


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## Mark Evans (1 May 2009)

so tank is clean....again!






filters stripped and ready for a good clean, all old media in the bin. Everything just stank, everything i touched that was wet. my front rooms smells like a morg!





this tank now goes into temp storage, and the 60 takes it's place just so i get peace of mind at least.

thanks to everyone who followed me on this one.   

what i learnt from this?....liliaeopsis is a great/tall foreground plant.


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