# BBA problem since...



## Lusitanos67 (18 Feb 2015)

Hi,

First, i'm sorry for my bad english... Some specifications:

Tank specifications: 250L  (juwel240)
Lighting: 2 x High-Lite Day 54 Watt, 1047 mm => 7hours/day
1x 18w 590mm => 8.30hours/day (i use them for sunrise and sunset)
CO2: 1.5bps => 20-30ppm
Filtration - eheim pro 3 =>1250L/hours
Fertilisation routine - PPS pro

I have always problem with the BBA on my tank, who are only on roots, or old plant leaves. I have try to up the level of Co2, put hydrogen peroxide directly on BBA, check No3=4mg/L and Po4=0.4mg/L...
I even dipped my roots in bleach , but it has again reappeared above.

I don't know what to do.

Please, i need help.


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## tigertim (18 Feb 2015)

any algae eaters in the tank?


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## Lusitanos67 (18 Feb 2015)

Otocinclus and japonica


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## tigertim (18 Feb 2015)

Phosphate maybe a little high but everyone on here seems to say it as no bearing on algae ...lighting n co2 look correct maybe look at if your over fertilizing or try another fertilizer ?


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## Lusitanos67 (18 Feb 2015)

I prefer to discover what is my problem with this algae, sorry.


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## Martin in Holland (19 Feb 2015)

Bad circulation of CO2...you filter turnover is only 5X the tank, it should be atleast 10X...maybe add a power head.


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## EnderUK (19 Feb 2015)

*Description*Often grows on leaf edges of slow growing plants, bog wood and mechanical equipment. Also sometimes it grows in fast flowing areas of the tank. Grows in clumps or patches of fine black tufts up to about 0.5cm long.
*Cause*In a high light tank it is an indication of low or fluctuating CO2 levels or not enough water circulation around the plants. In a low light tank it is often due to changing CO2 levels.
*Removal*In a high light tank you will need to increase your levels of CO2 and/or improve water circulation around the plants. Scrub and cut off as much as you can first. Increase levels slowly to 30ppm or more but watch the fish to see if they are respiring heavily. Make sure you have good water flow around the whole tank along with some good surface movement. Adding a powerhead may help.
If you have a low light tank without CO2 injection then not doing any water changes will help. This is because tap water often has lots of CO2 dissolved in it which causes CO2 levels in your tank to fluctuate. The algae respond to this a lot quicker than the plants do.
Siamese Algae Eaters are known to eat BBA so can be used to control this algae.
Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon will clear it up.


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## ian_m (19 Feb 2015)

The BBA indicates the plants are dying due not enough CO2 or as you dosing PPS Pro I would hazard a guess not enough ferts, probably PO4, meaning can't make use of CO2.

Your lighting is in the "high light" "high tech" area nearly 2W/US Gal, so you really need x10 turn over and get your CO2 spot on (helped by increased flow) and maybe up ferts level.

I assume you are mixing your own ferts, so can control the rations,  rather than relying on ready made expensive ferts.


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## ceg4048 (19 Feb 2015)

Lusitanos67 said:


> I don't know what to do.


The OP needs to do a couple of things:
1. Stop using NO3/PO4 test kits because they cant tell you anything about NO3/PO4.
2. Stop assuming that the level of CO2 is good. The appearance of CO2 related algae tells you that CO2 is NOT good.
3. In order to understand WHY CO2 is NOT good do a pH profile of the tank as described in http://ukaps.org/forum/threads/melting-marsilea-hirsuta-staurogyne-repens.28996/

Cheers,


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## Lusitanos67 (19 Feb 2015)

Ok so, my problem is the Co2 / not enough water ciculation around the plants.
Tomorrow, i check every hours the value of ph and Co2 not with the dropchecker but with a tetra test.

it's normal that my bottle of co2 (2kg) is almost empty in 3 months ?


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## Martin in Holland (19 Feb 2015)

If you look closely to where your CO2 bubbles are going, you will see that most of them go to the surface and get lost. The longer the CO2 bubbles stay in contact with the water the better they can dissolve, good current will help with this also placing your diffuser in the correct place is important.
A bottle being empty in 3 months doesn't tell you if you have or haven't got enough CO2 dissolved in your tank.


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## ian_m (19 Feb 2015)

Lusitanos67 said:


> the dropchecker but with a tetra test.


Better than nothing, better still is a proper digital pH meter, that is less affected by "other ions" in the water.

My 180l tank gets through 2Kg CO2 in 100 days with green heading to yellow drop checker, so your usage is not excessive.


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## Jose (19 Feb 2015)

No body here seems to be mentioning nutrients. Too low nutrient levels cause algae. I wouldnt know if it causes bba specifically though.
PPS pro doesnt always work. It depends on your light levels.
Can low nutrients cause bba? Maybe it can cause it indirectly?


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## fablau (23 Feb 2015)

I have great circulation in my tank, but I get BBA just where the flow is faster. So, it is kinda the opposite problem (too much circulation?). How would you suggest to tackle the problem in this case?


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## EnderUK (23 Feb 2015)

fablau said:


> I have great circulation in my tank, but I get BBA just where the flow is faster. So, it is kinda the opposite problem (too much circulation?). How would you suggest to tackle the problem in this case?



If it's a high tech tank then increase your CO2 increasing surface movement.


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## Martin in Holland (23 Feb 2015)

I've used EI before and it worked fine but got also BBA and GSA, so I kept adding phosphorus which the floating plants didn't seem to like very much as they seem to like and my TDS was over 500 after a week ....
Now I'm using PPS pro for a couple of months and floaters are telling me that there are enough nutrients in the water (I have to remove about 25%  of them every week), also my BBA is as good as gone (after removing effected leaves and plucking and scraping it off of wood and stones...), but I also lowered the light intensity added more shrimp and SAE. So does low nutrients in a tank cause algae? I would say that it wouldn't help plants to compete. I suggest to throw a few floaters in your tank (even just to test if you have enough nutrients), if they are doing good, you don't have to worry about having or not having enough nutrients in the water.


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## Lusitanos67 (24 Feb 2015)

Sorry for  my response late, but i have a another problem, my  water  is  trouble. I prefer  to solve it before try to eradicate algae.


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## Martin in Holland (25 Feb 2015)

My guess is that your CO2 still isn't good...maybe to much light...maybe not enough turnover and/or flow. Otherwise, Purigen (or active Carbon) can help with clearing your water.


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## fablau (26 Feb 2015)

EnderUK said:


> If it's a high tech tank then increase your CO2 increasing surface movement.


Thank you for the suggestion, but my Co2 is already at its limits (over 1.3 PH drop, drop checker yellow after just 2 hours lights are on with fish gasping at the surface the last hour of photoperiod) and I do have surface movement a big deal. I can't figure out what is causing this damn BBA that seems to persist!


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## EnderUK (26 Feb 2015)

Try spraying the areas with liquid carbon if you can get the area emersed. If not take the dose of liquid carbon and try spot treating with a syringe. SAE will make short work of BBA but they are monsters.


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## Lusitanos67 (11 May 2015)

Hi guys,
my problems with the green water's finished, so i can finally concentrate myself on the pH profile of the tank.


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## Martin in Holland (12 May 2015)

As a tank matures, water will mostly get clearer as plants "filter" more and better...anyway, good to see your on top of things.


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## Lusitanos67 (24 Aug 2015)

Hi guys,

i will start to check the ph every 3 or 4 hours.
there are some changes...  i removed the both t5 with 1x jbl natur ultra 54w (9000K  3000lumen) and jbl tropic ultra (4000K 320lumen).


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## Lusitanos67 (26 Aug 2015)

CO2: 120bpm

16pm=>ph 5.8 
20pm=>ph 5.8 
00am=>ph 5.9 
8am=>ph 6 
12pm=>ph 6 

not much variation...


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## ian_m (26 Aug 2015)

CO2 leak...


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## Lusitanos67 (26 Aug 2015)

why ?
I stop Co2 at the same time the light


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## ian_m (27 Aug 2015)

Lusitanos67 said:


> why ?
> I stop Co2 at the same time the light


If your pH isn't changing then CO2 is obviously not getting into the water. Roughly 30ppm CO2 will cause a pH drop of one unit.

As said in post #9 http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/bba-problem-since.36240/#post-389140, you have done a pH profile and just proved what the plants are telling you, lack of CO2.


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## Lusitanos67 (27 Aug 2015)

oops yes . I changed a lot of things in CO2 level . The bubble has displays smaller than my old bubbles (hence the difference? ) , Then I would have to look at him to be sure of dropchecker 20-30ppm ... But I 'm pretty sure not to have leaks , I tested my circuit with water + soap.


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## ian_m (27 Aug 2015)

Lusitanos67 said:


> But I 'm pretty sure not to have leaks


That's what I used to think...then lifetime of 2Kg FE's indicated otherwise....

This is grams per day CO2 consumption to get a green drop checker...I used about 20gr per day into 180litres to get a green/yellow drop checker.


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## Lusitanos67 (3 Sep 2015)

ok thanks for the graph 
For the bba, there is a slight slowdown , but they still proliferate . I would take a picture tonight of the state of the tray ... it scares


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## Lusitanos67 (3 Sep 2015)




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## Manu (3 Sep 2015)

Hi,
I think you need much better water circulation. Looking at your video, I cannot really see the plants moving...
You should check your co2 around the tank by moving the drop checker at different places.
What diffuser are you using?
Cheers,
Manu


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## Lusitanos67 (4 Sep 2015)

Hi,

I think you're right, I have only 1250l/hours with one filter (tank 240l), so.... X5 theoretical.
What's necessary, a second filter or pomp ?


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## Lusitanos67 (4 Sep 2015)

oups... I forgot a pomp Nano Koralia ... 

1250+900 = 2150l/hours


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## ian_m (4 Sep 2015)

Lusitanos67 said:


> What's necessary, a second filter or pomp ?


A second filter is always nice, but expensive. Cheaper and easier to install is obviously another Koralia power head.

Try moving your drop checker around, especially in the low flow areas and see what it says. I was really surprised that I could place my drop checker (attached to a stone by string) near some plants with algae appearing and drop checker remained blue !!! indicating b**ger all CO2 getting to those areas. A carefully place power head fixed that.


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## Lusitanos67 (6 Sep 2015)

=> I have moved the drop checker, in the low flow but.... So green
=> I have changed the power head, and now, I feel that there are better moving in the tank (I can see all plants moving)

I bought 5x siamensis...


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