# Fish room insulation



## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

I have been given the go ahead to turn most of one of our sheds into a fish room (yey!) I don't need a huge amount of space. It was a cheap shed so draughty and some moisture comes in through the walls with continued hard rain. 
I've been looking at 50mm polystyrene sheets to do the roof and sides. I would put in a partition with a door as the shed has double doors that don't close snuggly. 
Are there any glaring problems that I'm not seeing?


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## James O (1 Aug 2014)

Off the top of my head:

It's best to have a relatively sealed room with ventilation you control for temperature stability in both hot _and _cold weather.  While the draughts will help in this weather they'll cost you a fortune in heating come winter.  On the cheap a few cans of expanding foam will sort that out but I'd still add polystyrene to the walls as well - don't forget insulated walls also keep the heat out (like fridge freezers etc) as well as in.

The floor in cheap shed will not stand much weight.  Assuming its sat on a strong level base and supported well you should just be able to slide an 18mm sheet of OSB in there to spread the load.

A small fan to provide air movement inside will be useful (maybe a small solar panel and 12v to save some leccy).  An extractor fan on a thermostat will prevent temp/moisture buildup.

Maybe treat the shed with oil based stain inside  as it'll be getting much damper than usual.

Brain fart over...


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## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

I plan to line the shed completely with the 50mm sheets, not leaving any gaps. I'll do the floor too and then put a sheet of something over the top to spread the load.


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## James O (1 Aug 2014)

My bad - I only saw you were going to line the roof 

Sounds like great fun! What are you planning on keeping in there?


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## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

Shrimp and whatever fish I have that might breed. I have liquorice gouramis and Lee Sweeting is giving me his Betta Chanoides pair. I also have a bunch of hmpk coming and need space for fry tanks. I think I will use really big plastic containers for growing on fry. Ikea have some monsters and I suspect the fish will do much better in large volumes of water. Not using large glass aquariums should save a little on weight.


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## ian_m (1 Aug 2014)

My mate years ago kept the marine processing bit of his marine tank in his shed, which I helped him modify & construct (the shed bit).


Must be on a proper foundation, or else will sink, especially in winter when ground is wet. The original shed was just wooden runners on breeze blocks, fine for tools, bikes etc. So we dug foundation pads 4-6" deep filled with compacted hardcore and paving slabs on top. Shed runners rested on these. Might want to add a slope towards the door so water runs out, rather than collects in a corner where you can't see it.
Shed support runners changed for proper treated runners as original supplied ones were clearly not treated and were rotting.
You need a shed with the correct type of wood lapping or else you are wasting your time, water will get in end of....shiplap timber I seem to remember, was in early 1990's I did all this. Not overlap timber as in cheaper sheds, you will not be able to seal this suitably.
Shed with windows is nice, lets light in and you won't feel trapped in a box. Must be double glazed or else wasting heat and condensation will be an issue,
You must seal against any water getting in or else water will collect behind any insulation and rot the timber.
He used Kingspan insulation, very expensive, but high U value for its thickness. Walls were covered with WPB ply so could attach things.
Floor was reinforced using Marine Ply as this is 100% waterproof but is about £50 a 8 x 4 sheet, but anything else isn't suitable and will succumb to damp/water.
Door was doubled up with insulation and board and tighter fitting frame.
He put in electrics, in fact multiple circuits. One for lights, one for general electrics, heating, fans etc and one for just the water pumps. This is so that if you trip the electrics whilst fiddling the lights stay on and the main water pump stays on. Electrics have to be done by some one qualified nowadays, Part P (Prat P) and all that "jobs for the boys etc".
He put a sink and cold water supply in, handy for water changing and cleaning up/washing etc.
Lighting was sealed fluorescent tubes. Initially had standard cheap open type tubes and holders, but attracted condensation tripping the electrics and rusting away the fixtures. Replaced with waterproof version.
Light switches MK type waterproof switches as water, wet hands and electrics generally are not good with normal switches.
Had major issues with condensation and damp, mainly in spring and autumn when air is moist and temperatures not that high...
First had a simple wall mounted fan. Not good, condensation everywhere. Also noisy. A single bathroom fan is no good.
Changed to bigger 12 inch fan, much better. Two fans, one at each and of shed even better. Much quieter. Also put cover on to keep rain out....
Put in humidistat to switch fans on automatically. Issue was not a temperature compensated humidistat so adjust to summer operation, fan comes on 100% in winter, adjust for winter operation, fan never comes on in summer. Replaced with temperature compensated humidistat.
Ceiling fan installed to move air around.
Finally de-humidifier used to keep moisture under control. Had to plumb in the de-humidifier drain as continually kept filling. This "did the job" no condensation.
Broke the de-humidifier as the collected water tank froze as the outlet had frozen and expanded, cracking the tank. Was repaired.
Wall heaters installed to keep temperature above freezing.

Had to put thermal heating tape on water connection as the pipes froze in the winter.
So just my 2p worth in keeping tanks in sheds.[DOUBLEPOST=1406892467][/DOUBLEPOST]Someone here modifying a shed. He has shiplap timber, but had to redo foundations as was initially supported on breeze blocks....
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=643304&do=filter

If you do Thread Tools -> Show only original poster, make the number of pages much smaller and easier to look at the pictures...


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## EnderUK (1 Aug 2014)

As ian mention I would see condensation as your main problem. I had to redo my loft this spring due to the fact it has polystyrene sheets instead of felt. This basically drips water like rain once the warm damp air hits the cold roof surface. Having the tank water in there I wouldn't try to completely seal the shed. You need some way of the warm damp air to escape.


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## ian_m (1 Aug 2014)

If you read the link I gave, despite taking great precautions and thinking ahead about ventilation the guy still suffered serious condensation, condensing and ruining his nice shed and equipment, so much so he ended up with a dehumidifier. This is not so necessary in a house as a house generally warmer and has a lot larger air volume in which the moisture may dissipate.



EnderUK said:


> I had to redo my loft this spring due to the fact it has polystyrene sheets instead of felt.


This is a very common issue in the UK, people insulate the roofs of their houses, thinking well it will insulate the house and make my loft warmer. As you have found it leads to "rain in the loft". My boss moved into a house like this where the previous owner had insulated the loft with polystyrene stuffed in the roof and come first spring water condensed on the polystyrene and rained on the loft contents. Plastic boxes full of keeps sakes etc had an inch or two of water in for months before he went on loft trying to locate the mouldy smell around the house. Removed the polystyrene insulation and suddenly no moisture, no rain stuff stays dry in the loft. Google for interstitial damp to see how this appears by adding insulation.


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## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

Thanks for all the info and link ian. Fortunately my shed is only 6.5 x 10feet. Split down the middle that gives me 6x5ft to play with. We have lined our loft with the silver bubble wrap stuff and don't get any problems with that. The water in the shed will be mainly covered so I expect this to help. I may even double up the polystyrene on the ceiling and maybe walls. In the long term I don't really care if the shed rots as we should be moving end of next year. I will have some degree of ventilation but will just have to see how much is required. 
I'm fortunate that this won't require any fancy equipment. HMF and air pumps along with some lighting and tank heaters should be it. The giant Ikea strorage has lids so I will make a hole for air to come out as it is replaced by air from the hmf. Maybe some fine foam over the air exit will catch some of the moisture? This I going to be one huge experiment for me and I can hopefully learn from this before converting the garage of the new house.


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## James O (1 Aug 2014)

ldcgroomer said:


> I think I will use really big plastic containers for growing on fry. Ikea have some monsters and I suspect the fish will do much better in large volumes of water. Not using large glass aquariums should save a little on weight.



I use 2x 90l containers from the local pound shop to grow plants on and as holding tanks. I run some of the sticky backed foam used for window insulation round the rim with a gap for cables and they loose very little water. Then just a sheet of glass on top.  Didn't overfill them as they bulge under pressure


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## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

Well this is no longer happening as my darling husband has agreed that I can gut the space underneath the stairs and use that. It does mean that I have to trawl through all the crap and decide what stays and what goes into the sheds but heyho I have great motivation! Will save on heating and cooling as it stays same temp all year round. Good ventilation curtesy of a draughty old house  RESULT!!!!


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## EnderUK (1 Aug 2014)

probably the best result.


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## James O (1 Aug 2014)

Bingo!  That's gonna save a load of time, £ and aggro

And now you can check your fish in your pj's


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## Lindy (1 Aug 2014)

I'd never thought of that james! I can see me hiding in there from my wee girl. I've discovered that living with a 3.5yr old is like living with really overbearing parents. You get followed about and questioned continually about what you are doing. You get no privacy and you get nagged ALOT.


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## EnderUK (1 Aug 2014)

tell her you sleep with the fishes. - godfather


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## Lindy (2 Aug 2014)

EnderUK said:


> tell her you sleep with the fishes. - godfather



The other mothers look at me funny as it is. It would take one day back at nursery for Eva to inform everybody.


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## James O (2 Aug 2014)

Ah but the joy of parenting comes later when you can use all those carefully saved images & video to embarrass them. Bring them out in order of embarrassment. Oh the fun!


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## Trevor Pleco (22 May 2017)

Just dug out this old thread on insulating your fish room, winter is fast approaching here and I thought this year I better do something to save on electricity. The other issue I have in midwinter is the ceiling condensation, as each morning it's raining and the ceiling is completely wet with drops and have to towel this off with an upside down broom which is a mission !  I have some large 25mm poly sheets available from a previous ceiling so thought I would use these and cut down to insert/ cover the window and cottage style glass pane door, which also have lots of condensation each morning and like the ceiling needs to be dried off.

Question - should I place the poly sheets inside or out ?   Any other ideas on reducing the condensation issues most welcome ? I have a large fan and aircon, inverter type, also installed in the fish/shrimp room for summer ?   The aircon has a so called dehumidifier mode and was one of the reasons I bought this model, but this never seems to work !
Forgot to mention, it's a relatively flat roofed building with IBR metal sheeting which means I can't get into the damn roof. It was originally lined/insulated with that pink candy floss looking product sometime back.


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## KipperSarnie (23 May 2017)

Over the years I've had many "Fish Sheds" some built of of wood & some of brick. 
Heat the room rather than the tanks & your condensation problems are over.
It costs no more than heating tanks.
When heating individual tanks they act as storage heaters loosing heat as they try to heat the room causing high humidity which condensates on cold surfaces. 
If the tanks are at room temperature there is no evaporation.
My present fish room is half the garage, soon to be all the garage!
The fish room is insulated to reduce heat loss & heated by a small night storage heater I do have individual tank heaters as a precaution but condensation is not a problem.


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## Trevor Pleco (23 May 2017)

Great advice *@KipperSanie* make sense,  many thanks !
I was always under the impression that it was the contrast of the warmer room and the tanks with their water volume generating humidity vs the cold outside and lack of insulation that was causing all the condensation ? This must be causing condensation to some degree on the windows and doors, but take your point with the ceiling rain forest.
I will continue with my plans of improving the insulation with the door and window with styrofoam boards, turn my wall heater on and put you theory to the test..sounds good to me ! Presume I should put the styrofoam boards on the inside rather than outside ?


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## KipperSarnie (23 May 2017)

Yes I would say internal insulation is better but that is just an opinion.

To some extent you are right about condensation, it's caused by moist air hitting a cold surface.
The nearer the room temperature is to the tank temperature the less evaporation occurs & by heating the room you have a sort of "Reverse Evaporation" as the tank takes up the heat from the room.

I live in an old cottage, open fires & storage heaters for heating. 
I have a tank in the house & in the summer I have very little heat loss from the tank, if any! 
 In winter over a couple of days I can see the drop in water level due to evaporation.
But there's a + we have less dust in winter!

I keep Discus & store the water-change RO water in the room  in an auto fill butt.  By heating the room the water is nearly up to temperature at each water change.


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## Trevor Pleco (25 May 2017)

Many thanks for this further info and advice, most appreciative. Will give it a go and let you know. 

I was wondering whether there was any point adding a fan for better air flow to reduce condensation, but presume this might be counter productive with increasing evaporation and not reducing condensation ?


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## KipperSarnie (25 May 2017)

Trevor Pleco said:


> I was wondering whether there was any point adding a fan for better air flow to reduce condensation, but presume this might be counter productive with increasing evaporation and not reducing condensation ?



Here's my thoughts but I must add it is only my opinions, I don't have the education to say for sure.

Air flow in the room will add to the condensation if your tanks are warmer then room temperature, bit like blowing on a cup of coffee.
It's ventilation that will possibly help to prevent condensation but as ventilation will drop your room temperature it will increase the moisture in the air from the extra evaporation, a sort of "Catch 22"

For information:
Our temperature today is 26c  so I have the fish room doors open to ventilate the room.


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## Trevor Pleco (25 May 2017)

ok we are starting to get close to winter here in the Cape rather than autumn so a nip in the air at night with temps dropping to 10C at a push, so not too bad. Trying to keep fish room temp at about 22C, tank heaters currently off and no condensation on the ceiling yet so your theory is looking good !
Will keep fan off then !
Of course in summer its the opposite with the aircon working full tilt trying to keep temp at 24C for the shrimp and being well into the 30s outside..


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## KipperSarnie (25 May 2017)

Oh I'd forgotten how "Cold" it gets at the Cape in winter! 

Circa 1970 ish!!
Honest!


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## Trevor Pleco (26 May 2017)

Great pic down memory royal navy lane !

How does that song go again  .. Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Midday Sun or into the snow wearing a T-shirt !


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## KipperSarnie (26 May 2017)

Trevor Pleco said:


> Great pic down memory royal navy lane !
> 
> How does that song go again  .. Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Midday Sun or into the snow wearing a T-shirt !



I thought it was more like:

Ag Pleez Deddy won't you take us to the fun-fair
We wanna have a ride on the bumper-cars
We'll buy a stick of candy floss
And eat it on the Octopus
Then we'll take the rocket ship that goes to Mars

Popcorn, chewing gum, peanuts an' bubble gum
Ice cream, candy floss an' Eskimo Pie
Ag Deddy how we miss
***** balls an' licorice
Pepsi Cola, ginger beer
And Canada Dry


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## Trevor Pleco (26 May 2017)

lol, have not heard those lyrics for a couple of decades !


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