# My journal for dealing with BBA



## sgdiscus (4 Dec 2016)

Hi all,

I have trawled through a fair bit of literature this hobby. Previously, when I am plague by BBA and when it overtakes my tank.. I will do a ground zero and reset the whole tank.

This time... I have decided not to do that. Mostly because resetting ny current tank will be painful.

So I decided to keep a journal and see how this fight goes. 




 

There are a few more other tuffs underneath that branch.

I have always maintained a weekly 50% water change and was on an EI regime until two weeks ago when I felt that the nitrate and phosphate at more than 80ppm and 5ppm respectively  (based on Colombia test kit).

So I stopped dosing nitrate, potassium and phosphate for two weeks and up my lighting hours from 5 hours to 6 hours but reduced my LED intensity from 85% to 80%. Based on the KH/PH chart my CO2 should be around 20ppm (no change to that).

The result... BBA. 

The battle plan:

1. Central idea. To get rid of BBA by going back to EI regime.

2. Execution Phase. On water change day, 50% WC and nuke the BBA with direct dosing of Seachem Flourish Excel. Maintain EI regime. No reduction in light. Maintain for 2 weeks and observe for new growth of BBA.

3. Contigency Plan. 
a. Reduce lighting hours from 6 hours to 5 hours. 
b. Lengthen the time of CO2 coming online from 30min to 1hour.
c. Reduce length of night light from current 10pm to 7am (1% LED) to 10pm to midnight. 

4. Reorg. Record down conditions and observe.

Wish me luck!


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## RonaC (4 Dec 2016)

Luck!  I am about to restart my 100l due to BBA so will be watching with interest.


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## sgdiscus (4 Dec 2016)

I just remembered a very important detail - I uprooted my dwarf hairgrass two weeks ago... one night AFTER my water change night. (face palm!) I think that is one of the root causes and stirred up the organics from the sand substrates.... I did put quite a lot of root fertilizer tablets in the sand substrate. 

I spent almost one hour staring into my tank and I was relieved that that the BBA were only seen one particular piece of drift water. The funny thing is that the BBA were located near the water surface and there was certainly plenty of water movement in those areas that they were located.

So looks like I did too many things had happened at the same time.... cutting down on fert... increasing light duration.... uprooting plants.... just bad combo.


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## sciencefiction (4 Dec 2016)

sgdiscus said:


> So looks like I did too many things had happened at the same time.... cutting down on fert... increasing light duration.... uprooting plants.... just bad combo.



I've always found it better for plants to have shorter period with higher intensity of light than the other way around. Low light with long duration does not work at all for me, even in a low tech.... Also, stirring the substrate means extra organics in the water column and BBA in my opinion just loves that.....Stopping the ferts may mean one of two things: it indeed affected the plants which in turn produced more organics due to plant deterioration or it had no effect as it was counteracted by extra organics and in turn ammonia that the plants can also feed on but so does the BBA, which probably was not so good at doing so with nitrate nitrogen as it takes more energy...I am just thinking aloud but from observing my tanks that's what I have come up with..



sgdiscus said:


> The funny thing is that the BBA were located near the water surface and there was certainly plenty of water movement in those areas that they were located.



BBA grows in fast flowing rivers in nature. It loves the flow...


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## sgdiscus (4 Dec 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> I've always found it better for plants to have shorter period with higher intensity of light than the other way around. Low light with long duration does not work at all for me, even in a low tech.... Also, stirring the substrate means extra organics in the water column and BBA in my opinion just loves that.....Stopping the ferts may mean one of two things: it indeed affected the plants which in turn produced more organics due to plant deterioration or it had no effect as it was counteracted by extra organics and in turn ammonia that the plants can also feed on but so does the BBA, which probably was not so good at doing so with nitrate nitrogen as it takes more energy...I am just thinking aloud but from observing my tanks that's what I have come up with..
> 
> 
> BBA grows in fast flowing rivers in nature. It loves the flow...



I agree with you.


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## sgdiscus (5 Dec 2016)

Current Status:

1. Water conditions.

a. Gh - 9
b. Kh - 3
c. Ammonia - 0 ppm
d. Nitrite - < 0.5 ppm
e. Nitrate - 50 ppm
f. Phosphate - 5ppm
g. PH - 6.61
f. CO2 - about 22ppm (according the sticky on Tom Barr's website)







 

2. Enemy current status:



 
Caption - Clumps of BBA underneath the driftwood just below the bucephalandras.



 

Caption - Another look at the enemy during water change. 



 

Caption - 2nd location near the tip of the drift wood.



 

Caption : 3rd location. Right at the top of the drift wood. This location is the only one directly underneath the light right by the outlet. So it has strong water current. 

Own Forces.



 

Execution.



 



 

a. 50% water changed done.
b. Used 30ml of excel and dosed directly at the enemy locations. Let enemies soaked in excel as waiting for the water to refill.
c. Lighting conditions changed to 2:30pm to 8:30pm at 90%. 6 hours. Intent is for the plants to get healthy and use them as allies against enemy.

Way Ahead.

a. Observe plant growth. 
b. Observe green spot algae multiplication rate.
c. Observe effect of excel nuke on enemy at the 3 known locations. 
d. Scout for new enemy locations. If found, repeat water change and nuke. Otherwise wait until next water change 7 days from now (next Mon or Tue)
e. Maintain EI regime.


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## ian_m (5 Dec 2016)

If you can remove the algae'd item from the tank eg spray bars, rocks etc then bleach is equally effective at algae killing and considerably cheaper then liquid carbon. Just rinse well with water afterwards and put back in tank. Tends to turn BBA to white which is then scoffed by the fish.

If you are really worried about bleach rinse/wash the item in water with dechlorinator first, though to be honest any bleach that does make it into the tank will be diluted and react with any organics very quickly.


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## sgdiscus (5 Dec 2016)

ian_m said:


> If you can remove the algae'd item from the tank eg spray bars, rocks etc then bleach is equally effective at algae killing and considerably cheaper then liquid carbon. Just rinse well with water afterwards and put back in tank. Tends to turn BBA to white which is then scoffed by the fish.
> 
> If you are really worried about bleach rinse/wash the item in water with dechlorinator first, though to be honest any bleach that does make it into the tank will be diluted and react with any organics very quickly.



Will give that a go in my next water change if the primary plan don't work. Thanks!


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## simon Coram (5 Dec 2016)

I'm just beating the dreaded bba. 
Havnt seen much new growth been dosing mine with easycarbo and it's all turning a nice pink colour.


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## Aqua Hero (5 Dec 2016)

I cant seem to beat mine but i have come to a temporary truce. It doesnt grow on my plants. Only my bonsai trees. 

It gives a really nice aged look. As if a weird fungus was growing on it. I dont mind it. But i think when i put fish and shrimp back in the tank again it will dose some diy excel and see happens

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## sgdiscus (6 Dec 2016)

Aqua Hero said:


> I cant seem to beat mine but i have come to a temporary truce. It doesnt grow on my plants. Only my bonsai trees.
> 
> It gives a really nice aged look. As if a weird fungus was growing on it. I dont mind it. But i think when i put fish and shrimp back in the tank again it will dose some diy excel and see happens
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Good luck! One of the things I am always paranoid about is when shrimps go straight into the locations where I dosed the excel.


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## Aqua Hero (8 Dec 2016)

There was a time I dosed 5x the recommended amount of excel in a tank filled with shrimp. Didn't do a thing to then. 

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## sciencefiction (8 Dec 2016)

Aqua Hero said:


> There was a time I dosed 5x the recommended amount of excel in a tank filled with shrimp. Didn't do a thing to then.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



If you're talking about cherry shrimp, mine are like snails. They survive uncycled tiny bowls on the window sill full of melting plants and temperatures of 12C during winter.....But they surely do not do best at these conditions...


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## sgdiscus (12 Dec 2016)

Just did my weekly water change. I did not observe new enemy locations. Those BBA in the old locations were directly underneath the driftwood and the glare from the lights prevented me from assessing if the BBA were dead or a lush black colour.

But I was able to pick them off easily using my fingers... so I would think they were killed by excel.

Moving forward... I will continue with the water change and keep organics (ie the dead leaves) down as low as possible. 

If I spot new BBA growth... I would do the next drastic step as suggested by many here... take out the drift woods or whatever they were attached to and perform a total cleanse.





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## sanj (13 Dec 2016)

Ooooh you've got a Lily about to flower.


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## sgdiscus (13 Dec 2016)

sanj said:


> Ooooh you've got a Lily about to flower.


Sorry sanj, I would love to claim that flower... but I bought the lily already with the flower bud. I chose it because I wanted the healthiest possible plant to grow in my tank.

Unfortunately. .. as expected the flower bud rotted and I had to trim it during the water change.  

I am definitely looking forward to it's next bloom. Finger cross that it will do well in my tank!

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## MrHidley (13 Dec 2016)

Have you performed a blackout?


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## sgdiscus (13 Dec 2016)

MrHidley said:


> Have you performed a blackout?


No. I did reduce lighting hours from 6 to 5hrs. But that is to control GSA.

I did increase aeration in my sump tank to facilitate breakdown of organics. I am subscribed to the hypothesis that BBA is due to excess organics. To this end, I also reduced feedings. I believed overfeeding could be a cause as well.

So in my mind, blacking out and weakening the plants is not on the cards for now.


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## MrHidley (13 Dec 2016)

sgdiscus said:


> No. I did reduce lighting hours from 6 to 5hrs. But that is to control GSA.
> 
> I did increase aeration in my sump tank to facilitate breakdown of organics. I am subscribed to the hypothesis that BBA is due to excess organics.



I think you're probably right, if you did a blackout though, it might help you kill it off, won't treat the problem necessarily but it could get rid of some of the symptom.


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## sgdiscus (19 Dec 2016)

Water change day. I have not seen any new BBA growth. BBA in the current locations are not growing and comes off easily. I think they were totally nuked by the excel. 

I feel comfortable enough to declare that this battle is won for now.

Reorg Phase. Going to maintain the water change regime. I have also increase aeration in the sump tank to enhance the breakdown of waste organics.


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## bobiciupe (19 Dec 2016)

Light intensity or water chanages will have nothing to do with the BBA. BBA, as other black algae, like staghorn, are directly the consequences of bad co2 management. This involves 2 things: too little co2 level or bad distribution in water mass. I used to have the same problem as you have, til i took out the ph controler, BBA went away. The controler reading is very much influenced by the magnetic field of the lights, it means that you can not have a proper reading.


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## sgdiscus (19 Dec 2016)

bobiciupe said:


> Light intensity or water chanages will have nothing to do with the BBA. BBA, as other black algae, like staghorn, are directly the consequences of bad co2 management. This involves 2 things: too little co2 level or bad distribution in water mass. I used to have the same problem as you have, til i took out the ph controler, BBA went away. The controler reading is very much influenced by the magnetic field of the lights, it means that you can not have a proper reading.


Thanks for sharing.

When you mentioned that the BBA goes away after you removed the pH controller - did you also link your CO2 to the pH controller? And the pH controller was giving varied CO2 level throughout the day?

I don't have a pH controller. I used a pH pen instead. The pH pen is not controlling the CO2. I tried the pH pen in a few locations in my tank and sump. I observed that the readings in my sump and my tank are the same when the CO2 are on and when the CO2 are off. It does take 'about' an hour longer for the pH pen to reach the same reading in the sump vis-a-vis the tank when CO2 are on. My CO2 is injected into an inline atomiser and fed directly into the outflow of the pump as it goes back into my main tank. So the sump is the last place for the CO2 to reach.

At the moment, I am subscribed to the theory that BBA belongs to a family of bacteria that thrives when organics are plentiful in the water. According to the approaches for waste treatment, increasing oxygen is important to help other beneficial organisms breakdown organics. Hence areas with slow or no flow can result in BBA due to low oxygen level.

In planted tanks, I can see your point that slow flow or no flow of CO2 can cause BBA especially if those areas are planted. This could possibly lead to plants not being able to photosynthesis and hence poor health and breaking down contributing more organic wastes.

<edited for grammar>

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## bobiciupe (20 Dec 2016)

I quite struggled in the past in creating such beautiful and healthy tanks that i used to see over the internet in international contests, since 1 year ago when i paied a visit to the guys from Green Aqua in Budapest and they told me some.... i dont know how to call them: rules, principles of being able to keep a healthy and green tank. Those rules are:

1. Filtration: the filter is the heart of the aquarium. Buy the biggest and the strongest filter you can aford. i use 3 eheim filters(2080, 2078, 2073) for my 380 litres tank filled with 22 litres of seachem matrix and 1 liter of seachem puringen equiped with aquarebels set of lily pipes to get the same flow over the tank, in order to avoid the death spots where the water dosent move
2. CO2 runs for about 8 hours/day. it start 1 hour before the light and shuts down 1 hour before the light. i dont know how many bubbles/sec, but many, anyways
3. water changes- i perform 50% water change per week, every sunday morning.
4. flow- i have 13x per hour flow, acording to filter producer (eheim)
5. low light- i use 2*54wati T5 bulbs Giesemann Midday+Aquaflora 7 hours/day
6. low temp- i dont have any heating sistem, water has room temperature, around 21 celsius

Since I am doing this i dont have any kind of problems regarding any kind of algae


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## sgdiscus (20 Dec 2016)

@bobiciupe

Wow.. nice filtration setup! Good sharing.

I am also a believer of over-filtration. I have a friend who also used two external ehiem canisters for his 3 feet planted tank.

I have since added more airstones and one more internal filter into my sump tank (about 3 feet) to further improve the ability to breakdown waste organics.

My water temperature is higher - between 25 to 28 °C.

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## ahjoe0digi (21 Dec 2016)

My canister filter is 650/hr, for my 15 G long tank,  50%water change. Hours of co2 before light on, light on for 8 hours. Relatively Medium light, plant food and also ROOM TEMPERATURE IN TROPICS,  around 29 degree.  Algae present but manageable....still punching my calculator to set aside some money for EXPENSIVE  chiller.  Fan not effective due to high humidity. 

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## bobiciupe (21 Dec 2016)

sgdiscus said:


> My water temperature is higher - between 25 to 28 °C.



i think it is too high. under the light plant starts to rot and roting process brings more amonia in to the water and increses the chance of getting algae. the rotting increses along side water temperature.


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## sgdiscus (22 Dec 2016)

bobiciupe said:


> i think it is too high. under the light plant starts to rot and roting process brings more amonia in to the water and increses the chance of getting algae. the rotting increses along side water temperature.


I agree that 28°c not ideal. I did deliberately choose easy plants like ferns, nana and swords. Although I think buce may struggle but already too late. So I just have to monitor and be more vigilant during water change and cleaning of substrates. So far no more new BBA growth. 

Also I am going away for vacation. Going to reduced the lighting intensity and duration. Let's hope I have done enough to keep BBA at bay!



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## ahjoe0digi (22 Dec 2016)

sgdiscus said:


> I agree that 28°c not ideal. I did deliberately choose easy plants like ferns, nana and swords. Although I think buce may struggle but already too late. So I just have to monitor and be more vigilant during water change and cleaning of substrates. So far no more new BBA growth.
> 
> Also I am going away for vacation. Going to reduced the lighting intensity and duration. Let's hope I have done enough to keep BBA at bay!
> 
> ...


Actually most plant can thrive under higher temperature. My tank maintain at 28 to 29. Although there are some algae,  but most algae are grow on headscape instead of plants.  However algae on headscape really annoying 






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## bobiciupe (22 Dec 2016)

https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki/algae/bba-black-beard-algae


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## sgdiscus (22 Dec 2016)

bobiciupe said:


> https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki/algae/bba-black-beard-algae


@bobiciupe

Thank you for sharing! I think I mixed up the blue green algae  (cyanobacteria) with the black beard algae. 

I have also looked it up on other sources. They also indicate that BBA is a form of red algae. Thank you for the correction! 

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## limz_777 (30 Jan 2017)

bobiciupe said:


> I quite struggled in the past in creating such beautiful and healthy tanks that i used to see over the internet in international contests, since 1 year ago when i paied a visit to the guys from Green Aqua in Budapest and they told me some.... i dont know how to call them: rules, principles of being able to keep a healthy and green tank. Those rules are:
> 
> 1. Filtration: the filter is the heart of the aquarium. Buy the biggest and the strongest filter you can aford. i use 3 eheim filters(2080, 2078, 2073) for my 380 litres tank filled with 22 litres of seachem matrix and 1 liter of seachem puringen equiped with aquarebels set of lily pipes to get the same flow over the tank, in order to avoid the death spots where the water dosent move
> 2. CO2 runs for about 8 hours/day. it start 1 hour before the light and shuts down 1 hour before the light. i dont know how many bubbles/sec, but many, anyways
> ...




is your tank still running ? actually i am more interested where bba comes from , the theory that keeping the plants healthy ,good flow , good co2 will keep algae at bay is used by everyone including myself ,  yet nobody really test it out , will introducing a bba turf into a algae free high tech tank , would the optimum balance in the tank kill bba ?


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## sgdiscus (31 Jan 2017)

limz_777 said:


> is your tank still running ? actually i am more interested where bba comes from , the theory that keeping the plants healthy ,good flow , good co2 will keep algae at bay is used by everyone including myself ,  yet nobody really test it out , will introducing a bba turf into a algae free high tech tank , would the optimum balance in the tank kill bba ?



@limz_777, are you going to test this out? I would be interested to find out too.

My hypothesis is that when a tuff of BBA is introduced (via driftwood or plant) into an optimally balanced tank, it will not kill off the BBA. This is because there will also be organic wastes in the tank regardless of how optimal it will be. The organic wastes should be able provide nutrients to the introduced BBA for it to sustain. While it may not propagate but I think it is tough enough to survive. For my own fight, the killing blow to existing BBA in my tank is the dosing of excel. Changing of water, proper fertilization, CO2 etc are just means to keep the plants healthy and to keep the organic wastes to a minimal so as to prevent an outbreak of BBA. 

A potential way to try this out is to set up as follows:

a. 2 jars/tanks with distilled water each with a tuff of BBA. Put 1 in a lighted place and another in a pitch black place.
b. 2 jars/tanks with tap water each with a tuff of BBA. Put 1 in a lighted place and another in a pitch black place.
c. 2 jars/tanks with your aquarium water each with a tuff of BBA. Put 1 in a lighted place and another in a pitch black place.

Unfortunately, I don't think I have the commitment to go through with this test! )


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## sciencefiction (31 Jan 2017)

limz_777 said:


> will introducing a bba turf into a algae free high tech tank , would the optimum balance in the tank kill bba ?



I've introduced BBA ridden plants from one tank to an algae free low tech tanks twice and the BBA died pretty fast. It does have something to do with the overall balance but it is not to say the BBA will die each time in a more balanced tank.  It probably depends on something we don't know.  This is fairly easy to test, especially for anyone that has kept multiple tanks because although BBA is common, it does seem to need certain conditions and doesn't infest each tank.


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## sgdiscus (31 Jan 2017)

sciencefiction said:


> I've introduced BBA ridden plants from one tank to an algae free low tech tanks twice and the BBA died pretty fast. It does have something to do with the overall balance but it is not to say the BBA will die each time in a more balanced tank.  It probably depends on something we don't know.  This is fairly easy to test, especially for anyone that has kept multiple tanks because although BBA is common, it does seem to need certain conditions and doesn't infest each tank.


Cool! Have you observed the same when transferring to a high-tech tank? 

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## limz_777 (31 Jan 2017)

sgdiscus said:


> @limz_777, are you going to test this out? I would be interested to find out too.
> 
> My hypothesis is that when a tuff of BBA is introduced (via driftwood or plant) into an optimally balanced tank, it will not kill off the BBA. This is because there will also be organic wastes in the tank regardless of how optimal it will be. The organic wastes should be able provide nutrients to the introduced BBA for it to sustain. While it may not propagate but I think it is tough enough to survive. For my own fight, the killing blow to existing BBA in my tank is the dosing of excel. Changing of water, proper fertilization, CO2 etc are just means to keep the plants healthy and to keep the organic wastes to a minimal so as to prevent an outbreak of BBA.
> 
> ...



unfortunately i not running a high tech at the moment , but i did have a bba ridden main stone before which i left in a non running tank for 3-4 weeks with ambient lighting ,not pitch black , still bba didnt died off , which suggest to me that blackout doesnt work well for bba , only spot treatment with algaecides  , further search of bba which everyone label as black beard algae actually belong to the genus Audouinella , which has over 200 -300 sub species


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## bobiciupe (5 Feb 2017)

limz_777 said:


> is your tank still running ? actually i am more interested where bba comes from , the theory that keeping the plants healthy ,good flow , good co2 will keep algae at bay is used by everyone including myself ,  yet nobody really test it out , will introducing a bba turf into a algae free high tech tank , would the optimum balance in the tank kill bba ?



Yes limz_777, my tank is still runnig and it;s runnig very well i think. this is the clearest and algae free tank i ever had. in my 10 years aquascaping experience i discover that: CO2 is involved in BBA, as I said before, but i never experienced what you said to introduce BBA in a established tank to see what will happend. i runaway as fast as i could from BBA i dont want to put by force in my aquarium only to make experience.


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