# Fallen Tree



## Plunket (25 Oct 2013)

Hello everyone

I’ve been lurking about the fringes on UKAPS for some time, really enjoying all the fantastic displays and great wealth of information that the forum provides, but not really getting involved.  Well, time to change – here goes!

At the outset, just want to thank everyone for the great information and inspiration within these pages, but especially Alastair for the motivation, and George for all his advice and help, and for taking time out to come and photograph my set-up  I suspect this means that the best photos of my new tank will be of it unfilled!

For some time I’ve been scheming to get a new tank at home and “The Chancellor” finally agreed, on one condition – that the cabinet was made of solid wood!  If only I’d known that’s all it would take….
So here she is, 1095 x 450 x 450 mm, opti-white, on her solid oak cabinet:

 

Have to say, we thought the wine rack was a good idea, but as you can see, nothing lasts long enough to go in there!  Suggestions for alternative uses welcome 

My mission with this build, apart from hopefully producing a competent ‘scape, is to come up with a functional design that provides filtration, CO2 delivery, heating and additional circulation through the base of the tank so that there is no equipment in the tank or cabling, pipes, etc. over the rim.
Not a simple brief, but after six months of planning, trial and error, drilling, cutting, gluing, joining, pulling apart, re-building and testing, I’m hoping I now have a workable design.

 






Not sure how much detail to include, but basically the intake and return go through a single hole (55mm) in the base of the tank.  The intake gets split in two, with one part going directly to the filter (which runs 24/7) and the other to a circulation pump which will be on the same timer as the CO2 solenoid switch.  This timer will, in turn, mimic the photoperiod settings on the lighting controller, meaning the additional circulation and CO2 injection will be provided during the day only, when the lights are on.  When I wet tested this, the fully loaded filter on its own delivered 750 LPH (around 5 x tank water volume), while the filter and circulation pump together delivered 1500 LPH (around 10 x tank water volume).  There is a flow control top on the pump so I can crank this down if required.
The return from the filter passes through an inline Hydor heater before merging with the flow from the circulation pump and inline diffuser, then back to the tank via the centre of the intake hole, to a 22mm acrylic lily pipe/spray bar.  I haven’t completed the fabrication of this as I need to see how the flow is distributed around the tank, but this can be optimised once the tank is filled. 

Inside the tank, there is a removable intake housing with a pre-filter sponge and the return passes through the middle of this.  Kind of complicated and difficult to explain, but seems to work. 

 

Ultimately, this will all be screened by plant growth, but still be accessible for removal and cleaning. If anyone is interested in the specific design, let me know so I can provide additional pics to illustrate.
After a couple of weeks of faffing about I finally decided on the layout:

 

One of the things that has bothered me in the past is all the tying and netting and otherwise fiddling to get mosses and carpeting plants established, so I decided to try the DSM.  Again, huge thanks to the people I’ve been pestering over this.......

_(“You mean I spend good money on healthy plants, put them through a kitchen blender, add some yoghurt then paint them onto the rocks and wood!!??  Seriously??!!”)_

I’m about 10 days into the process now, and so far, touch wood, it seems to be going well. 

Plants I’ve put in so far:
 Glosso, HC ‘cuba’, Eleocharis sp. ‘mini’,  Elatine hydropiper, Fissidens fontanus, Riccardia chamedryfoli and  Plagiomnium affine.  I’ve also attached a couple of small pieces of Microsorium ‘mini’ to the tree – just hoping it survives the dry start if I keep it moist – and some of the surplus Cryptocoryne lucens from my livestock tank.

This is where I am as at today (thanks once again to George for the pics!):

 
 
 

So there it is - my first journal entry...thanks for reading, hopefully much more to follow


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## krazypara3165 (25 Oct 2013)

Superb set up! Thats the first time ive seen an engineering feat like that in a tank!


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

looks great and great pics and filtration set up etc looks very well thought out will be keeping close eye on this one

Dean


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

Deano3 said:


> looks great and great pics and filtration set up etc looks very well thought out and complicated will be keeping close eye on this one
> 
> Dean


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## Emyr (25 Oct 2013)

Really like the look of this! Some serious plumbing you have got going on in that cabinet! The GroBeam lights look like they give out a fair amount of light, I'm intrigued to see how you get on with them as I'm looking to get one myself. Keep the updates coming!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (25 Oct 2013)

Very Nice Plunket. Nice design with the filter/ pump inflow.
I don't know how you'll get on with flow around the tank with that set-up, but will watch with anticipation.

Nice one


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## Alastair (25 Oct 2013)

Yesss you've started it 
Its great to see you getting your journal underway. 
You already know what I think of this scape, and to think you thought it was a 'ok' attempt  you had me fooled ha ha. 
The new wood on the right has balanced it out brilliantly and I think youve done a fantastic job with this. Some serious thinking has gone into this set up you can tell and its really paid off mate youve got a set up that's going to be great once its growing in and flooded. The plants seem to be doing really well on your first go at dsm too. 
I did try to have a hard look at your outlet etc but now ive seen these pictures you've done a great job of it. That's some serious plumming under the tank and I think your idea of a lily type outlet would be ideal. 

I bet your photography skills are top notch too now hey 
 im subscribed to this and really looking forward to how it progresses. 

Well done mate

Ps fill the racks with fert bottles theyll last a bit longer unless your desperate


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## foxfish (25 Oct 2013)

Well that is different! 
I don't imagine there has to be a reason why you did not use two holes?


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## Lindy (26 Oct 2013)

Wow!


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

krazypara3165 said:


> Superb set up! Thats the first time ive seen an engineering feat like that in a tank!



Thanks krazypara - there are 32 joins in the system, which is a bit scary I filled the tank and let the system run for 10 days, and no leaks....anyway, what's the worst that could happen?  We need a new carpet in here anyway


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

Deano3 said:


> looks great and great pics and filtration set up etc looks very well thought out will be keeping close eye on this one
> 
> Dean


Thanks Dean - appreciate the compliment. Will try and keep the thread up to date!


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Very Nice Plunket. Nice design with the filter/ pump inflow. I don't know how you'll get on with flow around the tank with that set-up, but will watch with anticipation.


Thanks Nathaniel, and yes, flow is a BIG factor here.  When I tested this (without plant and hard-scape), the flow with both filter and pump running was almost too strong, and this is the issue - all the flow is coming from a single point.  I think if I keep the plants on the back and on the right quite low, so that the flow hits the right hand side and gets deflected forward and down, then I should be OK.  I will also distribute flow to the sides and back by drilling appropriate holes in the return pipe.....it's a bit of "suck and see" really, but I'm hopeful it will be ok, even if I end up with a bin full of scrap acrylic pipe


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

Alastair said:


> Yesss you've started it Its great to see you getting your journal underway. You already know what I think of this scape, and to think you thought it was a 'ok' attempt you had me fooled ha ha. The new wood on the right has balanced it out brilliantly and I think youve done a fantastic job with this. Some serious thinking has gone into this set up you can tell and its really paid off mate youve got a set up that's going to be great once its growing in and flooded. The plants seem to be doing really well on your first go at dsm too. I did try to have a hard look at your outlet etc but now ive seen these pictures you've done a great job of it. That's some serious plumming under the tank and I think your idea of a lily type outlet would be ideal. I bet your photography skills are top notch too now hey im subscribed to this and really looking forward to how it progresses. Well done mate Ps fill the racks with fert bottles theyll last a bit longer unless your desperate


 
Hey Alistair - so you finally got me here  Can't thank you enough mate. How are the choccies doing?? I know you have your hands full with that new beast of yours so I appreciate you taking the time...
Photography still pants mate - cameras and I just do not get on (unless I'm at a party - then they seem to be fine )
Plumbing-wise, as I've said, it all SEEMS to work, so I'm forging ahead! I LIKE the idea for the fert bottles!! Could even mix them into old wine bottles to keep the authentic looks  Speaking of which, I'm still using "Spezial N" or something - a recipe I think I got here on UKAPS ages ago - any suggestions for a good macro food??




foxfish said:


> Well that is different! I don't imagine there has to be a reason why you did not use two holes?


 
Hi foxfish - different indeed.....not really, other than one hole will always have a smaller footprint in terms of plumbing, etc. than two holes, even if the two holes are smaller... And also, I stumbled into the right component to get it done. Just lucky really - its a prototype from a factory in China and they sent me a couple to play with.


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

Plunket said:


> foxfish said: ↑ Well that is different! I don't imagine there has to be a reason why you did not use two holes? Hi foxfish - different indeed.....not really, other than one hole will always have a smaller footprint in terms of plumbing, etc. than two holes, even if the two holes are smaller... And also, I stumbled into the right component to get it done. Just lucky really - its a prototype from a factory in China and they sent me a couple to play with.


Sorry foxfish - just re-read my reply, and realised it's complete nonsense!!  One hole isn't necessarily going to have a smaller footprint, but in this case it would: if I'd had two holes, they would have had to be at least 30mm to accommodate the tank connectors, etc. and because it's glass, there has to be good separation, probably another 30mm at least, so one 55mm hole made more sense. Also, having a single transit is just less disruptive to the inside of the tank.


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## Plunket (26 Oct 2013)

Emyr said:


> Really like the look of this! Some serious plumbing you have got going on in that cabinet! The GroBeam lights look like they give out a fair amount of light, I'm intrigued to see how you get on with them as I'm looking to get one myself. Keep the updates coming!


 
Hi Emyr - thanks for the compliment mate.  Yes, the GroBeams are great.  These are quite old - the old-style GroBeam 500 from a few years ago, still working well.  I'm actually planning to use the new GroBeam 1500ND (I'm hoping I can get away with just two, but may need three ) and will use two of the old ones to back-light the wall behind the cabinet.


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## George Farmer (26 Oct 2013)

Watching with lots of interest mate.


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## Plunket (27 Oct 2013)

Just opened up to do a quick spray and chuffed to see mosses starting to green up 
 
 
 
Glosso looking good too.....


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## GHNelson (27 Oct 2013)

Very interesting
hoggie


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## Plunket (30 Oct 2013)

OK, I've been very patient, but now I'm starting to twitch.....still 10 days to go 

One of the mosses - can't remember which - that I painted onto the rock still just looks like a green smear....
 
...while others are growing well...
 
HC seems to be taking well and glosso looks healthy though not putting runners yet...
 

Oh, and sorry about the monster pics on my last post - hopefully I've figured how to size them better


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## George Farmer (30 Oct 2013)

The first pic is Fissidens. It will take a while to get going. The second is Riccardia.

Looking good overall. Be patient.


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## Ian Holdich (30 Oct 2013)

The mini pellia is looking great, it will look great when filled it.


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## Plunket (30 Oct 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> The mini pellia is looking great, it will look great when filled it.


 Thanks Ian - is that what's growing amongst the Riccardia??  That's one of the parts I cheated with - got that piece of wood with the moss already established from George


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## Alastair (30 Oct 2013)

Looking great mate. Hope the next 10 days rolls on fast


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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

Quick update - Saturday will be day 20 of my DSM cycle, and I think I'm going to fill 'er up 
Couple of pics (sorry not the best quality) of some of the plants...
 
...and HC seems to be doing well...
 
Bit worried about the fissidens, tho does look like it might be taking?


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## George Farmer (7 Nov 2013)

Looking good mate. 

You could slowly pour a bit of water over the moss to ensure it is affixed properly before properly filling. Otherwise it might float away, and your patience will be wasted! 

Can't wait to see this full of water though, and to see how your amazing plumbing and CO2 systems comes into play.


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## aliclarke86 (7 Nov 2013)

Don't know how I missed this one! This all looks fantastic!! I'm subscribed and looking forward to your updates! I think I'm going to be taking the DSM on my next one for sure. I think I have the patients, I spent e months looking at hard scape before planting my latest tank!!

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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

George Farmer said:


> Looking good mate.
> 
> You could slowly pour a bit of water over the moss to ensure it is affixed properly before properly filling. Otherwise it might float away, and your patience will be wasted!
> 
> Can't wait to see this full of water though, and to see how your amazing plumbing and CO2 systems comes into play.


 
Thanks George - just tried that and it's definitely seems to be holding....

Yes, can't wait to see how the whole system works. Mark One lily pipe installed so I can check the flow and adapt as required. Learned a wicked new trick for bending acrylic courtesy of Alastaire -


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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> Don't know how I missed this one! This all looks fantastic!! I'm subscribed and looking forward to your updates! I think I'm going to be taking the DSM on my next one for sure. I think I have the patients, I spent e months looking at hard scape before planting my latest tank!!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


 Thanks mate   I have to say, I've surprised myself - I'm not normally one for waiting, but I'm about at the end of my capacity for watching a damp box 
Although it's been 3 weeks since I planted, I've actually been tinkering with the tank for 4 months, so it's about time now I think....


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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

Lighting installed and running...


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## Alastair (7 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Lighting installed and running...



Looks fantastic mate. Roll on Saturday. Im eager to see it filled and how your handy acrylic bending turns out. 
What percentage will you be running the tiles at 

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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Looks fantastic mate. Roll on Saturday. Im eager to see it filled and how your handy acrylic bending turns out.
> What percentage will you be running the tiles at
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


 Can't wait!  I've set the photoperiod as follows:
Lights come on at 6am with 4-hour ramp to 100%, then dimming down again from 4pm to be off at 8pm - so 100% from 10am to 4pm... I've got two Colour Plus tiles on there, and they are less intense than the Natural Daylight...too much?


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## Alastair (7 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Can't wait!  I've set the photoperiod as follows:
> Lights come on at 6am with 4-hour ramp to 100%, then dimming down again from 4pm to be off at 8pm - so 100% from 10am to 4pm... I've got two Colour Plus tiles on there, and they are less intense than the Natural Daylight...too much?


Ummm no dont think its too.  I first saw that and thought "14 hours of light " but then read it properly.  
Dont think you need such an early ramp up.  
Have you thought about having your main photo period a bit later so you get to see it at its full brightness after working after coming home from work??  Maybe try a 2 hour ramp up in the morning??? Always best to errr on the side of caution with lighting especially when its first set up. Im not clued up as much on the tmc tiles with regards to light output during ramp up and if after a certain percentage it counts as the actual photo period if that makes sense??? 

And just me personally for the first few weeks not run at full whack just whilst it takes off


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## Plunket (7 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Ummm no dont think its too. I first saw that and thought "14 hours of light " but then read it properly.
> Dont think you need such an early ramp up.
> Have you thought about having your main photo period a bit later so you get to see it at its full brightness after working after coming home from work?? Maybe try a 2 hour ramp up in the morning??? Always best to errr on the side of caution with lighting especially when its first set up. Im not clued up as much on the tmc tiles with regards to light output during ramp up and if after a certain percentage it counts as the actual photo period if that makes sense???
> 
> And just me personally for the first few weeks not run at full whack just whilst it takes off


 
I have been thinking about this....I leave for work at 6:45, and I enjoy my first cup of coffee in the morning with the lights just starting to dim up   I think what I'll do is just crank the max down from 100 to 50 and see how I go...
I need to get some PAR readings during the ramp up so I can see what dose the tank is getting during this phase.  The alternative would be to set the minimum to 1% so they don't go off completely, and start the cycle later - that way, I'd at least be able to see the tank in the morning.


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## Alastair (8 Nov 2013)

Only 24 hours to go 

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## Plunket (8 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Only 24 hours to go
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


 Less than that mate - I plan to start at dawn!!


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## George Farmer (8 Nov 2013)

How will you do it? Whatever method - make it super slow!


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## Plunket (8 Nov 2013)

Planning to fill directly from my RO unit which does about 20 litres per hour....so it will take most of the day...
RO pH is 6.3 so I may add 10% tap just to bring that up a tad


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## George Farmer (8 Nov 2013)

Nice one. Don't worry about pH. The NutraSoil will buffer it at 6 or so anyway. But a bit of tap will add useful minerals.


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## Alastair (8 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Less than that mate - I plan to start at dawn!!



Eager ha ha

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## Aron_Dip (8 Nov 2013)

Looking GOOOD ... not long till the big fill


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## Plunket (8 Nov 2013)

Just had a thought.......20 litres per hour, 160 litres, that's 8 hours.......leave it filling overnight?


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## Alastair (8 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Just had a thought.......20 litres per hour, 160 litres, that's 8 hours.......leave it filling overnight?



Yeahhhhh why not. Judt secure the pipes down well


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## Plunket (8 Nov 2013)




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## aliclarke86 (8 Nov 2013)

I keep seeing people say nutrasoil will buffer water but I have used it in a few tanks and never have a pH lower than 7 before co2 kicks in?


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## aliclarke86 (9 Nov 2013)

Oh and this is exciting 

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## Plunket (9 Nov 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> I keep seeing people say nutrasoil will buffer water but I have used it in a few tanks and never have a pH lower than 7 before co2 kicks in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 4


I've always struggled to get pH to 7 - I've always just used tap water which comes out at 8 (!).  My RO is bang on 6, so for the first time I'm going to be working upwards rather than down.  Will be interesting to see if the soil changes this - I've never checked to be honest.


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## steveno (9 Nov 2013)

oh i am looking forward to see this progress...


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## Alastair (9 Nov 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> I keep seeing people say nutrasoil will buffer water but I have used it in a few tanks and never have a pH lower than 7 before co2 kicks in?
> 
> 
> Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 4



Works fine for me ali. Weird that its not worked for you mate

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## Plunket (9 Nov 2013)

OK, apologies for the quality - my first ever video posting - but here goes....



This is with filter running at about 80% and CO2 circulation pump at about 70% - any more than this, and the flow starts to pick up the soil at the far end.  So, need to reduce this or disperse it better.


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## aliclarke86 (9 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Works fine for me ali. Weird that its not worked for you mate
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2



Strange I guess I must be adding something to push it back up.



Plunket said:


> OK, apologies for the quality - my first ever video posting - but here goes....
> 
> 
> 
> This is with filter running at about 80% and CO2 circulation pump at about 70% - any more than this, and the flow starts to pick up the soil at the far end.  So, need to reduce this or disperse it better.




Looking good mate. all the plants seem happy 

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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Nov 2013)

Nice. I bet your glad to see it full after a lot of preparation to get to this stage mate.
I like what you've done with the outflow of the filter and like how it's rippling the surface.  I believe the benefits of this outweighs the bad, aslong as your willing to counteract the gas off with more co2.

I know it's early days, but what's the plan from here? Are you going to allow the tank to adjust to being submerged, and run high gas, then scale it back? Or are you looking at getting fish in there as soon as possible? Filter allowing of course.


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## Alastair (9 Nov 2013)

Looks great now its filled and think youve got the flow spot on their as its clearly blowing around the whole tank. 
Great stuff mate. Bet your relieved now hey???? 

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## Plunket (9 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Looks great now its filled and think youve got the flow spot on their as its clearly blowing around the whole tank.
> Great stuff mate. Bet your relieved now hey????
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


What a day.....tank-filling, acrylic-bending, dosing, measuring, co2 solenoid malfunction.....and to top it all, unexpected house-guests to entertain
Relieved for sure - the system works and no leaks and all the plants look secure, so successful day.....
More photos tomorrow....


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Nice. I bet your glad to see it full after a lot of preparation to get to this stage mate.
> I like what you've done with the outflow of the filter and like how it's rippling the surface. I believe the benefits of this outweighs the bad, aslong as your willing to counteract the gas off with more co2.
> 
> I know it's early days, but what's the plan from here? Are you going to allow the tank to adjust to being submerged, and run high gas, then scale it back? Or are you looking at getting fish in there as soon as possible? Filter allowing of course.


Thanks - yes, really pleased to have it filled and everything works as intended.
Couple of issues:
1. Made three different lily pipes yesterday, and it's still not quite right. I think it needs to be an inch or two shorter so the flow is still up-and-across, but not so close to the surface. Also needs more flow directed back into the back left-hand corner and also out to the sides - the holes I've drilled for this on the current version aren't right. With the current version, I'm wasting a lot of CO2.
2. The diffuser I'm using isn't making fine enough bubbles - not sure why because I've seen these on other systems work really well. Going to change out the ceramic shaft today and see if that makes any difference.

As for plans, I'm playing the long game with this one . Desperate to get the rest of the planting done - funds allowing - then get everything properly grown-in, transfer my amano's and some cherries from the old tank, but no fish for awhile. Just set-up a breeding tank for my CPD's - if I can get 50 or so from this, they should be ready for the new tank in about 6 weeks which should be about right.


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## martinmjr62 (10 Nov 2013)

Just read the whole journal whilst eating breakfast.The plumbing looks very well planned out and meticulous.
Love the layout of the tank and will be following this one with interest.
Well done mate
Cheers
Martin


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## Monk d'Wally de Honk (10 Nov 2013)

I think that this is an amazing achievement, lovely layout too, will watch with much interest.

In as far as the diffuser issue, why not install it before the filter, the bubbles will be fully dissolved before re-entry into the tank.


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

Monk d'Wally de Honk said:


> I think that this is an amazing achievement, lovely layout too, will watch with much interest.
> 
> In as far as the diffuser issue, why not install it before the filter, the bubbles will be fully dissolved before re-entry into the tank.


Thanks very much.  Yes, have thought about putting the diffuser before the filter....would be reasonably simple to do, but always worried about unseen build-up of CO2 inside the filter - I assume you've don't have this issue?


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## foxfish (10 Nov 2013)

I have found there is defiantly a limit to the amount of C02 you feed into a bio filter before you get a build up, even with purposely designed reactors you normally have a build up if you push them at all.
Fine on small manageable tanks with low bubble counts but when you move up to 8-12 BBS you will be running a high chance of the gas building up in the filter until the pressure gets high enough to purge out in big bubbles.


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> I have found there is defiantly a limit to the amount of C02 you feed into a bio filter before you get a build up, even with purposely designed reactors you normally have a build up if you push them at all.
> Fine on small manageable tanks with low bubble counts but when you move up to 8-12 BBS you will be running a high chance of the gas building up in the filter until the pressure gets high enough to purge out in big bubbles.


Yes, exactly my concern....am running at around 6 BBS at the moment - too much or too little?
You can see the bubble size in the vid - clearly I'm losing most of this at the surface.....

And here's the diffuser I'm using...
 
Disappointed really - I thought I'd get a finer mist....


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## anttthony (10 Nov 2013)

I had the same problem from the same diffuser it was passing on the o rings rather than through the ceramic tube going to try the old type next I think 
Annoying considering the price  

ant


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

Couple of photos after water change and re-arranging some of the furniture


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## Alastair (10 Nov 2013)

Do you think the bubbles going to the surface could also be the angle of the outlet??? What working pressure is the co2 going in at 

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## foxfish (10 Nov 2013)

If you are happy with a mist then could probably ditch the diffuser & just feed straight into the external pump.
You could of used a needle wheel pump & that would of bee a totally maintenance free & reliable method of getting a mist.
However most guys get fed up of the mist eventually anyway.
The type of diffuser you are using can cause a few issues but with a bit of luck you should get it going... what is your working pressure at the moment?


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

My initial planting plan for the left hand side....

Comments/suggestions welcome


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## Alastair (10 Nov 2013)

Might have to keep the zenkeri trimmed to keep its leaves close to the substrate mate or it will head strate for the surface.  

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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> If you are happy with a mist then could probably ditch the diffuser & just feed straight into the external pump.
> You could of used a needle wheel pump & that would of bee a totally maintenance free & reliable method of getting a mist.
> However most guys get fed up of the mist eventually anyway.
> The type of diffuser you are using can cause a few issues but with a bit of luck you should get it going... what is your working pressure at the moment?


 One gauge is reading 900 psi, the other one 30 psi....how should I read this??
Just realised that a needle wheel impellor in my circulation pump, with CO2 supplied via a venturi would have been a much simpler solution  !!  Might try and retro-fit this....


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Might have to keep the zenkeri trimmed to keep its leaves close to the substrate mate or it will head strate for the surface.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


 I know mate - it's my favourite plant, and there is a "mini" cultivar I've seen with much smaller leaves which looks as though it grows quite dense, with just the occasional leaves heading for the surface... I could also move it out a bit more into the mid-foreground...


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## foxfish (10 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> One gauge is reading 900 psi, the other one 30 psi....how should I read this??
> Just realised that a needle wheel impellor in my circulation pump, with CO2 supplied via a venturi would have been a much simpler solution  !! Might try and retro-fit this....


£30 psi is about 2 bar off the top of my head, possibly not enough, the more standard UP requires more like 3 bar to work well!
I ran NW pumps for many years, including some really big tanks, once set up they require no adjustment for years...
Tom Barr also uses NWs for many of his tanks.


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

After all the faffing with CO2 inline diffusers, I think I'm going to try this....
Co2 reactor build for Fluval FX5 | UK Aquatic Plant Society
Once again, thanks Alastair


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## foxfish (10 Nov 2013)

If you consider that in your set up, the inlet is at the bottom of the tank, that is were you want your gas to get too!
Rather than direct it up perhaps direct at a low level.
I could imaging a rotating head about one third up would really do the job but might not look to good?


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> £30 psi is about 2 bar off the top of my head, possibly not enough, the more standard UP requires more like 3 bar to work well!
> I ran NW pumps for many years, including some really big tanks, once set up they require no adjustment for years...
> Tom Barr also uses NWs for many of his tanks.


 Hmmm...the pump I'm using is a V2 Powerpump - rated 2000 LPH - must say I've had to restrict it slightly, but it's good and quiet.  Just been looking at Alastair's home-make pipe reactor (see above) and think this will work better - also won't need much working pressure....new territory for me, but will integrate into my plumbing arrangement really easily.


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## Plunket (10 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> If you consider that in your set up, the inlet is at the bottom of the tank, that is were you want your gas to get too!
> Rather than direct it up perhaps direct at a low level.
> I could imaging a rotating head about one third up would really do the job but might not look to good?


 Yes, been thinking about this too...trying to get some surface movement, but have some flow at the base as well - have gone through about 3 meters of acrylic pipe today, trying various designs...and still not there  - still got work to do on this....


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## foxfish (11 Nov 2013)

Alistair's reactor thread is a great guide, personally I would try your hardest to obtain clear tube & understand the longer the bubble contact time the more efficient the reactor... in other words you need a long tube!
As you appear to be pretty handy, you might want to attempt to get the water inside the tube to spin as this will obviously increase contact time tenfold.


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## Monk d'Wally de Honk (11 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Thanks very much. Yes, have thought about putting the diffuser before the filter....would be reasonably simple to do, but always worried about unseen build-up of CO2 inside the filter - I assume you've don't have this issue?


 
No, no, never had this issue. Although my diffuser is after my filter 

I have been using a Mixmax Co2 reactor which has worked fine for me and keeps the bubbles very small, my outlet is also just above the gravel at one corner blowing a fair current across the plants, if you watch a bubble it seems to dissolve before reaching the surface.


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## Plunket (11 Nov 2013)

Monk d'Wally de Honk said:


> No, no, never had this issue. Although my diffuser is after my filter
> 
> I have been using a Mixmax Co2 reactor which has worked fine for me and keeps the bubbles very small, my outlet is also just above the gravel at one corner blowing a fair current across the plants, if you watch a bubble it seems to dissolve before reaching the surface.


 After all that, I'm actually going to take the diffuser off completely and try using a reactor instead


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## Plunket (11 Nov 2013)

OK, so just to make things interesting....and as if my cabinet wasn't cluttered enough.....
Decided to switch from an inline diffuser to a CO2 reactor.  Having checked out Alastair's thread on the subject (Co2 reactor build for Fluval FX5 | UK Aquatic Plant Society), I put this together...
 
and managed to fit it into the cabinet like so....
 
Unfortunately, I rushed it a bit, and one of the joins hadn't cured, so leaked quite dramatically - cue scramble for extra towels 
Had to disassemble, apply extra solvent weld and refit - just giving it another couple of hours before I wet test again....never a dull moment!
I've added a bleed-valve on the top of the reactor so that trapped air and any surpluss CO2 can be vented....


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## Alastair (11 Nov 2013)

Looks the business now its inside the cabinet. Very well done mate.  Shame about the leak though.  Pvc cement usually bonds in minutes and should have been a tight seal after ten. Unusual

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Plunket (11 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> Alistair's reactor thread is a great guide, personally I would try your hardest to obtain clear tube & understand the longer the bubble contact time the more efficient the reactor... in other words you need a long tube!
> As you appear to be pretty handy, you might want to attempt to get the water inside the tube to spin as this will obviously increase contact time tenfold.


 
Sorry - just saw this now - I've got limited cabinet space, so the most I could get is 62cm (including the fittings at each end.  Gone for 2" pipe to increase the volume of the reactor as much as possible.  Good suggestion on the clear pipe...I was in a hurry and had an old piece of white plumbing spare, so am using this for now.  Managed to use clear pipe on the inlet and outlet, so I can at least see what's exiting the reactor and if there's any gas backing up towards the pump.


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## Plunket (11 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Looks the business now its inside the cabinet. Very well done mate. Shame about the leak though. Pvc cement usually bonds in minutes and should have been a tight seal after ten. Unusual
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


 Yes I know - very strange.  It leaked where I'd put in a reducing bush to come down from 2" to 1.5", and I did not they were quite lose, so I guess I should have used more glue


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

Quick update - been an eventful week....
First, major issues with algae, completely my own fault  Forgot to reset my photo period after the dry start - thought cranking it back to 50% max would be ok, but 12 hours total in the first week CLEARLY too much 
Doing 30% water changes daily with a 70/30 blend of RO and tap - TDI going in is 75.  Surprised that my ammonia is 0ppm - I guess it leached out in the dry start and my water changes have flushed it?  Dosed with Flourish Excel which has definitely helped, and today added 6 Ottos, the 4 adult Amanos from my old tank and a bunch of Cherries.  Happy to see that they were all munching away happily today and plant leaves are already looking much cleaner.  Not 100% sure what I should be doing regarding dosing and CO2...at the moment I'm not dosing at all and pulled CO2 and lighting right back - lights are on 12 to 5, but ramping over 3 hours and max brightness is 30% - any advice on this?

Happier news is that my CPD breeding program is yielding good results . 
 
Set up on 9th November with 4 females and by best 2 males - saw first fry on Fri evening, so removed the adults and today counted 20 swim-up babies, and another 20 or so amongst the marbles on the bottom that still have their egg sac - all being well, should have a good crop for the new tank.  Sorry for the C****Y pics - the best I can manage with the iPhone....
 
 
I really do have to sort out my camera work and get a decent camera - any suggestions?  I've heard that you can buy a decent SLR cheaply second-hand, but wouldn't know what to buy


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## foxfish (17 Nov 2013)

Are you saying.. you have alga issues so you have cut back on lighting & C02?


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> Are you saying.. you have alga issues so you have cut back on lighting & C02?


 Hi foxfish
At the moment, I've shortened my photoperiod (total time including 120 minute ramp up and ramp down) to 7 hours - 12 midday to 7pm.  Maximum brightness is set to 30%, so the lights are at this level from 2pm to 5pm - the other 4 hours they are either brightening or dimming. 
I've got the CO2 running from 10am to 5pm, in other words from 2 hours before the lights begin to dim up to 5pm when they begin to dim down.


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## foxfish (17 Nov 2013)

OK then, it was when you said .. ...at the moment I'm not dosing at all and pulled CO2 and lighting right back... I got worried!
Anyway - tuning the lights down & upping the C02 is the way to go, if you don't have any fish then turn it up big time & carry on with full ferts


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## darren636 (17 Nov 2013)

Cpd babies- well done .


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> OK then, it was when you said .. ...at the moment I'm not dosing at all and pulled CO2 and lighting right back... I got worried!
> Anyway - tuning the lights down & upping the C02 is the way to go, if you don't have any fish then turn it up big time & carry on with full ferts


 Thanks - I was running CO2 AND lights for 12 hours, with the lights at 100% for 6 of those hours,   and I think that's the main cause of the bloom - silly really, after all the patience and work of doing the DSM cycle....
Have just added some Otocinclus today, so can't crank it up too high - at about 4 BPM now.  Am nervous to run it higher as I'm not home during the day to keep an eye on it.


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## foxfish (17 Nov 2013)

Well your Otocinclus wont have half the effect of increased C02 but I guess you cant remove them now?
Lots of people are surprised how much C02 is required!


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> Well your Otocinclus wont have half the effect of increased C02 but I guess you cant remove them now?
> Lots of people are surprised how much C02 is required!


Yes, I have noticed this before, running CO2 hard, but back then I wasn't using a drop-checker, just watching my fish to make sure I wasn't dosing too much.
Now, I'm using a drop checker, and I'm nervous to crank up the CO2 because my pH is not seeming to change at all (6), even when the CO2 has been off for a couple of hours....?? Am I missing something?


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## Deano3 (17 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Yes, I have noticed this before, running CO2 hard, but back then I wasn't using a drop-checker, just watching my fish to make sure I wasn't dosing too much.
> Now, I'm using a drop checker, and I'm nervous to crank up the CO2 because my pH is not seeming to change at all (6), even when the CO2 has been off for a couple of hours....?? Am I missing something?


 I am no expert but thought might try and help a little, firstly how are you checking your PH ? electronic ones are great I used to use test kit and didn't see much change so hopefully you have electric one also the aim to to get the PH to drop by 1 so when the co2 comes on if reading 6.2 you want it to be 5.2 at least by the time lights come on then usually doesn't drop much lower, how many bps are you supplying ? also does ur drop checker change colour ?

Thanks dean


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

Deano3 said:


> I am no expert but thought might try and help a little, firstly how are you checking your PH ? electronic ones are great I used to use test kit and didn't see much change so hopefully you have electric one also the aim to to get the PH to drop by 1 so when the co2 comes on if reading 6.2 you want it to be 5.2 at least by the time lights come on then usually doesn't drop much lower, how many bps are you supplying ? also does ur drop checker change colour ?
> 
> Thanks dean


Hey Dean
More expert than me for sure, so comments very welcome 
Using a drop checker, but with tank water - couldn't get 4 dKH this weekend, so making do. My RO comes out at 6.3 using a pH test kit so I add 30% tap water which brings it to about 7....
Running at 4 bps and my drop checker hasn't changed colour from Friday evening to today....


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## foxfish (17 Nov 2013)

You need the correct solution for you DC to work but your PH readings are a great way to see how the C02 is working.
As Dean points out - a cheap PH pen is a great asset.


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Hey Dean
> More expert than me for sure, so comments very welcome
> Using a drop checker, but with tank water - couldn't get 4 dKH this weekend, so making do. My RO comes out at 6.3 using a pH test kit so I add 30% tap water which brings it to about 7....
> Running at 4 bps and my drop checker hasn't changed colour from Friday evening to today....


 Just tested pH again and it's spot on 7


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## Plunket (17 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> You need the correct solution for you DC to work but your PH readings are a great way to see how the C02 is working.
> As Dean points out - a cheap PH pen is a great asset.


Just checked on the bay - less than 8 quid - done deal


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## Deano3 (17 Nov 2013)

thanks but seriously I am just learning like you mate slowly but surely  firstly not sure if will be reading correctly or efficiently using aquarium water as never heard of this only ever used 4dhk solution with bromo blue so that my be why not changing colour but maybe someone else will correct me also everyone told me to buy an electronic PH tester and honestly they are great, so much easier I got one like this

 Electric Pocket Digital Ph Meter Tester Hydroponics Pen Aquarium Pool Water Test | eBay

takes an accurate and correct reading, I was using test kits and impossible to see slight colour differences and like you thought wasn't dropping but it was so I would advise purchasing a electric one like this 4bps is quite high so should be dropping I would get the reading right before going any further 4dhk and a PH tester 

Thanks dean


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## Rob P (18 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Just checked on the bay - less than 8 quid - done deal


 
Don't forget to order some calibration fluid to go with it 

I've had my cheapy PH pen for 3 weeks or so now and found it pretty accurate and an excellent tool  I've calibrated weekly with PH 7 & PH 4 solution and it's not needed much adjustment (2 minute job anyhow).

Shame about your light problems, I suffered the same kling on levels of TMC power when I started up 2 months ago, and still cleaning up the mess now lol. Still running at 25% max with as much CO2 as I can with fish in!

Good luck


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## Plunket (18 Nov 2013)

Rob P said:


> Don't forget to order some calibration fluid to go with it
> 
> I've had my cheapy PH pen for 3 weeks or so now and found it pretty accurate and an excellent tool  I've calibrated weekly with PH 7 & PH 4 solution and it's not needed much adjustment (2 minute job anyhow).
> 
> ...


 Hi Rob
Yes, I did check and the one I've ordered includes calibration fluid.  Good to know that they work - I've been sceptical of my test kit for a while....
Lighting always seems to catch me out - I try to run my photo period long - I start work early and it's always nice to give the tank a quick check under lights before I leave and again when I get home - so I'm always pushing the limit in terms too many hours.  I try to mitigate by having a long ramp time - 4 hours - and limit max to 35% inititially.  This way, the tank is only getting the higher setting for a short period of time.  But it is risky  
Previously, I always thought you had to reduce CO2 during low-light periods, but the prevailing wisdom now seems to be to crank it quite hard....I'm at 6 bps now, but still not sure if this is right as I can't get an accurate read on pH / CO2 ppm.  Got to get that sorted....


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## Alastair (20 Nov 2013)

Plunket said:


> Hi Rob
> Yes, I did check and the one I've ordered includes calibration fluid.  Good to know that they work - I've been sceptical of my test kit for a while....
> Lighting always seems to catch me out - I try to run my photo period long - I start work early and it's always nice to give the tank a quick check under lights before I leave and again when I get home - so I'm always pushing the limit in terms too many hours.  I try to mitigate by having a long ramp time - 4 hours - and limit max to 35% inititially.  This way, the tank is only getting the higher setting for a short period of time.  But it is risky
> Previously, I always thought you had to reduce CO2 during low-light periods, but the prevailing wisdom now seems to be to crank it quite hard....I'm at 6 bps now, but still not sure if this is right as I can't get an accurate read on pH / CO2 ppm.  Got to get that sorted....



Hi mate could you not just set the minimum on your conyroller to 1 that way theres still a twinkle of light on the tank during lights off???


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## Plunket (21 Nov 2013)

Alastair said:


> Hi mate could you not just set the minimum on your conyroller to 1 that way theres still a twinkle of light on the tank during lights off???


 Good idea Al - yes, I think I'll try that, with a shorter burst of 35% in the middle of the day....

Actually, the tank seems to be coming back quite quickly...
 
New helpers....
 
...doing a good job


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## Plunket (23 Nov 2013)

Quick update...I think it's all going ok.  Plants look healthy, algae outbreak fully under control now.  Carpet not developing as fast as I'd hoped, but I have cranked back the lighting and dosing, so not too worried about it.  Could I finally be acquiring some patience??


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## Plunket (23 Nov 2013)

On a side note...CPD fry now growing nicely - should be ready for the main tank in 6 weeks.....MORE waiting


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## Deano3 (23 Nov 2013)

Looking good mate nice perling plants what I like to see, carpet looking good so far patience is required and look great by the time fishes go in there

Dean


Thanks Dean


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## Plunket (21 Dec 2013)

Been awhile since my last update, so here goes.....
Quite a bit going on. Firstly, got fed up with issues with my inline diffuser and bubbles in the tank, so built and installed a DIY CO2 reactor which is working brilliantly. Once again, apologies for crap pics...
 
Of course, my tendency to over-engineer means the reactor also has inlet and outlet taps...so at water change time, I can drain from the bottom of the reactor, and then isolate the intake to the circulation pump and redirect to draw water directly from my top-up reservoir. It also has a vent at the top to I can remove any air that may get into the system. Must say, this works really well and a 30%water change takes 15 minutes once the RO has been temperature-matched to the tank.
Also wasn't happy with the MountaRay brackets with my lights sitting on the brace bars so designed a new acrylic light bracket....

 
Basically two 10mm pieces of acrylic, drilled so the mounting rail can pass through, then the base cut at the right angle so the weight of the lights pushes the bottom of the brackets out to lock against the sides of the tank. Again, really pleased with this - much neater and the whole assembly just slides to the back when I need access to the tank.
Plant-wise, had some issues with the front right corner - I think the current across and down was too strong. Anyway, moved things around a bit, and just planted this corner out with eleocharis sp mini which now has to fill in - hold thumbs.
Also chuffed to find a live Nymphaea zenkeri rhizome/bulb in my old tank - just one tiny leaf poking through the substrate . Anyway transferred this over a week ago and it seems to be doing really well.....
 
All in all, seems to be going well - touch wood, no major issues....


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## Deano3 (21 Dec 2013)

Looks great lovely brackets well done, also I keep reading about reactors more and more, how did you go about making one any tips or pics building would be great 




Thanks Dean


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## Plunket (21 Dec 2013)

Thanks Dean.  The reactor I'm running is basically a 52cm length of 2 inch pipe with two 90 deg elbows at each end and a hosetail for the inlet and outlet...
 
I have been told that you need a bigger reactor chamber to ensure the CO2 is fully dissolved, but have been running this at up to 8 or 9 BPS with no issues.
The CO2 is fed in via the 4mm blue Tefen elbow near the top of the barrel...
 
...which is screwed through the wall of the reactor.  I just tapped a 3/8 inch threaded hole into the wall....
 
...with a smear of silicone just to seal it.
You can see the vent at the top of the chamber which is really useful if the pump every picks up any air (for example if the water level gets too low during water changes).  This would get trapped at the top of the chamber, and the tap just allows for it to be fully vented.
I've also added a drain to the base which I use to drain the amount of water I want to replace when I do water changes.


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## George Farmer (21 Dec 2013)

Nice progress.


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## greenink (21 Dec 2013)

Brilliant DIY job. Have a real soft spot for these...


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## Plunket (22 Dec 2013)

Thank you kindly!  Must say, I do love my tinkering...it's just a bonus if something works


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## Alastair (23 Dec 2013)

Tanks looking fantastic mate. Very nice and the brackets are swish


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## Plunket (29 Dec 2013)

Hi all, and Complements of the Season - hope it's been a festive one!

Little update today - to be honest, not a particularly happy one....
Everything seems to be growing nicely, though slower than I'd hoped, and now I'm having a recurrence of the early algae issues I had, but different types...
 
 

Weirdly, it seems to be worst where the flow is strongest  - I've had this in the past, but it's tended to crop up in low-flow areas....
I think it's probably light-related....been running at 75% and now cranked it down to 60%, but concerned that glosso and HC won't get enough at this level....
CO2 is at 8 BPS, dosing EI ferts, and 30% (75 litres) RO water change twice weekly...
I've also been trying Gluteraldehyde solution for the last week.....
Clearly something wrong though


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## Plunket (29 Dec 2013)

Also worried about my choice of lighting....am running a pair of GroBeam Colour Plus tiles and a standard GroBeam 1500.  Had heard that the Colour Plus worked well, but now concerned that there is too much red in it.... Possibly another hit to the budget coming up


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## tim (29 Dec 2013)

Hi plunket, love the scape and journal so far, ime moss can react quite badly to treatment with glut you may need to trim off the melt, fissidens is quite resilient though so it should bounce back.


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## Plunket (29 Dec 2013)

Cheers Tim - yes, keeping a close eye on the mosses, but the plants themselves look OK - not great, but not melting or dying back... I've used Excel before when I've had algae issues, and it's worked brilliantly, so hoping the Glute solution does the same job.
My feeling at the moment is to keep things as they are, but turn the lights down a bit and see....


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## Plunket (3 Jan 2014)

50% water change today, upped the glute dosage, re-configured lighting - now running two GroBeam 1000's (old version), set to 6 hours at 30% with 2-hour ramp at either end. Now to see what happens....


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## Plunket (3 Jan 2014)

Oooo, and the CPD babies are coming along nicely... Possibly ready for the main tank in another 2 weeks?


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