# External filter media 11



## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

hey guys so I'm I. The middle of ordering some stuff, getting an external filter p, but got to buy some media
It's has 4 filter baskets and I was thinking
1st -White wolly stuff
2nd course sponge
3rd ceramic rings
4th bio balls

Or
1st purgen
Fine foam
Course foam
Ceramic rings

As I'm getting 2x externals, would I be best having the same filter media in both. Or have them each doing differant things, and have the intake on the opposite end to the outske, if you get me


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

Just did some reaserch and decided I would want eiether
Course 
Fine
Ceramic
Bio balls, Or purigen or White polishing wool

Or I could have one filter 
With
Course 
Fine
Ceramic
Bio balls
The second
Course
Fine
Ceramic
Purigen or White fluffy stuff

Sorry if this is asked ALOT, just trying to order stuff in ready for filter arrivals


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## alto (31 Mar 2015)

Unless you're going to run the filters in a series ie flow from the first enters the second filter, you want mechanical filtration in both, if you have a relatively light fish load you can set up 1 filter as bio & 2nd as polishing, or run each filter doing a bit of everything (this is preferred in the event of a filter failure).

Look at pond supplies for the coarse & fine sponges/"wool" as you can buy in larger sheets & cut to fit & usually save quite a bit of $

I'm not really a fan of bio balls in canister filters though they seem to work fairly well in large sumps.

I use the Eheim versions as filters came with all media, later I bought more at a shop closure.
I have activated carbon on hand for emergency but don't use it otherwise.
Seachem purigen is usually a good buy (shop around for price) as you can regenerate & get several uses out of it, it is very good at polishing but you can wait for a sale as it's not necessary for clear water.


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

That's what I was looking to do run flow from first into second, so then I would only need one inline heater and 1 inkine diffuser
I decided to go With fine then course foam before bio, and will probably then just use ceramic rings, IV heard lots about how floss just slows flow, 

Also would I be best stacking the ceramic so they stand on ends, so water can flow straight through the centres, instead of being jetted about
I decided to go with 2xjebao 404, their 4 stage fiters or the 403 is a 3 stage fikter with same lph

I read about sintered glass or whatever it's called, witch easiest and fail safe media as far as bio goes?


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## alto (31 Mar 2015)

Most planted tanks have more than enough biological filter/media as fish tend to be slight (neither deep bodied nor thick), so most commercial media will work with room to spare (for bacterial colonies) ie choose whatever looks to be a decent price.
Floss polishes - I'm rather less flow focused than many on this forum, so I use it.
Pretty much anything in the filter will act as bio-media over time, I use the same sponge & floss for several months (or even years), generally I replace it on the day I just don't feel like rinsing it  

If you want to stack those ceramic pieces end to end (& glue them into place), have at it - I keep mine nicely jumbled, that jetting about action increases aeration & removes particles (think of streams where the water flows over rocks).

There are pages (upon pages) of discussion where posters are fanatic about which media perform best, but there's not  much actual data to back up even the manufacturer claims - it's all very well to demonstrate (with schematics) the massive internal surface area of whichever media, but no one is actually providing bacterial counts from scrapings that are taken from inside those pathways, or even oxygen levels (is there enough to support much metabolic activity ...)


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

You pretty much do fogged it for me mate, I know that me and the family like a big stocked community tank lots of differant fish, so I think I'm going to go the route of half and half, half sponge half bio, suppose it can't hurt to over fikter the tank , all the same price really, don't want to be all finicky about it, will mix all of them that way I get all the benefits CBa to make a whole hearted disicion
Fine
Course
Ceramic
Glass

Don't know wether there is any point adding the poly.maybe before in the tray after the course and before the ceramic, but then I suppose there is no point


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## EnderUK (31 Mar 2015)

Save your money....
pre-filter course sponge cleaned weekly. Can be made up my wrapping a strip of sponge around the intake and sawing togeather with fishing line.

1st pot - bio medium of choice, medium sponge, bioballs, noodles, pot scrubbers, lego....
2nd pot - empty
3rd pot - empty
4th pot empty

Spend all your saved money would would of spent on expensive media and by some more plants.


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

Lol kinda beats the point of an external filter though surley? I a, aswell use power heads and an air driven sponge filter, why would I buy externals to then have them empty?


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## dw1305 (31 Mar 2015)

Hi all,





Ghosty said:


> Lol kinda beats the point of an external filter though surley? I a, aswell use power heads and an air driven sponge filter, why would I buy externals to then have them empty?


 They don't have to be empty, you can fill them up with media if you wish, just as long as it doesn't impede flow too much. 

I have any combination of  Eheim "coco-pops" , alfagrog, floating cell media, PPI10 sponge, glass rings, ceramic rings, hydroleca, pumice in mine, anything will do as long as it doesn't clog easily. 

The really important factor, that is virtually never discussed on forums, is that once the water is in the filter you can't add any more oxygen to it, this means that it must have enough oxygen already present in the tank water to convert NH3 > NO2 > NO3. 

If you look a conversion process we've added 3 oxygen atoms for every molecule of nitrogen, and we've liberated 3 H+ ions (which is why nitrification reduces pH).  

People do horrible things with their external filters, they use them as syphons and stuff them with mechanical filter material like floss. 

The end result is that the vast majority of the filter media is anaerobic, and although it *might *contribute to the anaerobic de-nitrification of NO3,  it doesn't contribute to the biological filtration process.    

All you need to remember is that, when *oxygen supply exceeds oxygen demand* you need a relatively modest amount of filter material for nitrification to occur.  

The pre-filter sponge has 3 roles: 

It has access to the oxygen in the tank water (and evolved oxygen bubbles may adhere to its surface), meaning that it is a primary site for biological filtration.  
It stops debris getting into the filter, and

It is quick and easy to clean, meaning that the filter is likely to run more efficiently.
There is more in these threads <"Biological media please help">, <"Recommended Filter Media">, <"Canister filter">, <"New filter media question"> & <"Filter maintenance">.

cheers Darrel


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

So realist lu it doesn't really matter, as long ad flow isn't impared,
But does the order of foam before the bio matter? im guessing that having it going
Course fine bike
Would be the best option with a pre, decided on just ceramic rings dirt cheap and some foam


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## EnderUK (31 Mar 2015)

Well if I had a bare tank I would expect my filter to pull out all the crap of the water, complete the nitrogen cycle and polish the water. My filter turn over is 8 times tank volume or suitable for a tank 3 times the size of my current one. So roughly I could probably fill the filter a 1/3 full if I didn't even have plants. Throw in plants then you have two things happening in the tank. 1. The bacteria in the tank has a huge increase in surface area clinging to hardscape and plants. 2. The plants start mopping up all the nasty fish waste so the filter is even more redundant. I use my filter to power the flow around the tank, inject my co2 and as a backup should I have a massive plant die off but if that happens I have bigger problems then what I've put in my filter. If I do stuff my filter with media the first two points are reduced and as Darrel points out greatly reduces the efficiency of the last.


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

Reading my post it mad no sence lol

So I think as I want to stock heavy, I'll just go for some fine sponge and ceramic rings in my filters, and a course pre filter,
so realist lay you could use air drived sponge filters and powerheads in a heavily planted tank


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## EnderUK (31 Mar 2015)

Ghosty said:


> Reading my post it mad no sence lol
> 
> So I think as I want to stock heavy, I'll just go for some fine sponge and ceramic rings in my filters, and a course pre filter,
> so realist lay you could use air drived sponge filters and powerheads in a heavily planted tank



I don't know if I would but yes you could, but you would be safer stocked lightly. The true Walstad method doesn't have a filter, powerhead or even an airstone.


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## Ghosty (31 Mar 2015)

Tanks in family room, and they want well stocked but then maybe my list isint even that stocked
15 neon
20 galaxy's ras
5-10 platies
5-10 guppys
Trio honey Gouarmi
My bn plec
And a few other fish that we decide when we see something we like, I don't think that's heavy stocked really, I just don't see the point in buying an external not not utilise its purpose, so will take the advice of using a pre filter, but still gojng to use two of the trays, makes sence to really, no harm eiether way


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## Rahms (3 Apr 2015)

a filters purpose is whatever you buy it for. I don't think many people on ukaps buy an external because they need more filtration. Stuffing it full of media will reduce flow/distribution, which is possibly the actual purpose youre buying it for.

and when you mentioned joining the filters, do you mean outlet of filter 1 into inlet of filter 2? Because that will not result in twice the flow from filter 2.


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## Ghosty (3 Apr 2015)

I didn't think it would double the flow in fikter two,
I'm running outlet 1 into inlet to. And visa versa, so I inly need one inkine heater and 1 inline diffuser, also it makes more, sense as the water goes all round the tank, tbh I'm using opti for added filtration aswell as flow, I'm heavy stocking the tank

Ghosty


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## EnderUK (3 Apr 2015)

So criss-crossing the flow in the tank good idea, you should get a nice mix up then  just don't run the filters in series


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## Ghosty (3 Apr 2015)

Yea so criss  crossing, much better way of explaining it, also reading my last post makes no sence so ill re say it lol

A lot of guys in here use externals just for flow, as I want to heavy stock,mix decided to use
A corse pre filter, a layer of fine sponge at bottom or top and the ceramic rings then bio balls, no fine flossy stuff, the filters im buying
2x all pomd soltuions 1400ef come with all the bio stuff so may aswell use it, I opted for the aps over the jebao as aps are UK based so no long ass Chinese customer service
Or would 2x 2000ef be a better option, I'm not sure yet

2x ef1400 is 120£
2x ef 2000 is 140£
So only a 20£ differance so some help deciding would be nice guys

Cheers ghosty


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## EnderUK (3 Apr 2015)

I would probably go with the 2xef1400 (15/20mm), simply because you'll need reduces on the tubes of the ef2000 (18/25mm) for an in line diffuser. You'll probably have to put the tubes in hot water to get them over fittings for 16/22mm tubes and the usual locking mechanics probably won't grip the outer tube.

If you're looking for cheapish good filters I might recommend the AVEX 1200 which is basically a knock off of the EHEIM eXperience and uses the same spare parts. I have had no issue with my 1000 model.


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## Ghosty (3 Apr 2015)

I'm happy to run a heater in my tank eiether way, I was just thinking to spend the extra 20 and get 2xef2000' so for 20 quid I would get 1200lph more flow,


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## Ghosty (3 Apr 2015)

im hearing a lot of stuff about the aps dropping flow once filled with media, obviously I won't be using any white filter fluffy stuff, also the ef2000 is 55w

Guess I'll go for 2x1400ef and not use a lot of media, use 45/ bends and acrylic piping for plumbing, should be a better option then using the flexy stuff

Will the clamps in the filter hold acrylic tubing, does anyone know?


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## Bridgo (3 Apr 2015)

I have 2 external filters on my tank both half filled with pot scrubbies and I so no issues what so ever with biological filtration. In fact if I were to do it again, my second filter would be an external pump conected to my CO2 reactor and inline heater that would provide no biological filtration at all and wouldn't be impeded by ceramic rings, sponges etc.

I think my biological load is quite high as I have many species including 8 discus in my 350 litre and I still believe that I could get away with less filtration (but not flow/distribution).

Bridgo.


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## Ghosty (4 Apr 2015)

Hey bridgo 

I think there is no really wrong way of doing something, there just common sence. A lot of people do differant things on here with external fikters, like you I have decided the 2x external route is a better option, and I think I'm looking to stock a lot heavyier I don't know about discuss so can't comment on how ever your stocking is.
Here is mine and the family's planned stocking list if you guys could give your opinions i wether it's to much for two externals heavy planted and daily 10% water. And the leopard danios will be grouped maybe 4-6



 
lol at the open tab beginner water parameters I forgot witch way around nitrates and nitrites were
What I also want to know, is whether you guys think the 2x2000ef would be a better option given the stocking list, I didn't want to open another thread to ask, and I suppose it's filter related

Cheers for all the answers guys

Ghosty


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## Bridgo (4 Apr 2015)

Let me think what I have in my tank. 

8 discus - 2 very large - 6 medium. 
Around 40+ cardinal tetra.
15 oto's.
8 skunk corydoras.
15+ amano shrimp.
1 male ram - he chased the other 2 females to death. 
10+ assassin snails.
3 Medium sized siamese flying foxes. 

The dicus get fed 2-3 times a day. If it wasn't for them, the remaining fish would only get fed once a day. 

James at The Green Machine told me that you only have to many fish if your tank looks too busy. I believe it's very dependant on your equipment, water quality and house keeping etc.

I'm no expert but my advice would be to build your stock slowly and watch your tank - it will tell you when enough is enough. Also you need to factor in the adult size of stock. Most of your list wouldn't add much to the bio load I wouldn't imagine. 

Bridgo.


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## Bridgo (4 Apr 2015)

One thing that I overlooked obout your list is that some are live bearers which could increase your stock substantially.


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## Ghosty (4 Apr 2015)

I also done thing my list is to much at all, even at adult size, the tank will have lots of hiding places and plants,

I want it busy for my 3yr old, and I have adhhd and would just get bored of it I kess it was exciting,
As for livebearers what fry survive get taken to lfs, or given to members on here, I have no need for them.

I will add list slow, and watch water parameters, I think I could add more tbh, but that will be single spcies


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## Bridgo (4 Apr 2015)

Have you thought about going for really active small fish? That way you could decrease quantities and it would still look busy and very active fish love a good current  win, win.


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## Ghosty (4 Apr 2015)

That list is a mixture, the Galaxy rasbora are like an inch full grown, same as the neons, leopards get maybe 2 inch
Gouarmis a little bit of bigger,
Might add some otos,  and maybe a few single species, but I think its a very good amount of sizes and colours, some will say to much blah blah, but I think with daily 10% change and good filtration and plenty of plants and hiding places, caves, hopefully be a good tank


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## Ghosty (4 Apr 2015)

Galaxy's and neon tetra both school, but the galaxy's not so much I think


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