# A few questions before I start..



## Paul195 (24 Jan 2013)

Hi

I am starting my first tank this weekend (low tech soil based) but have a few questions before I start.

Do I need to run any (emersed) heating equipment in the covered tank?

Can I tie my plants to wood and place it in at this stage also or do I wait until I am going to fill?

Does my substrate water need to be a specific temperature for this or is water temperature only really a consideration when you have livestock?

Cheers

Paul


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## Palm Tree (24 Jan 2013)

If your doing a dry start the lighting should provide some heat but it isn't necessary. When you say tying plants to wood, I take it you mean Anubias, Java fern or Moss, in which case yes tie them down and keep them misted a lot as they easily adapt from emersed to submersed conditions. This will give them some time to take root. I don't know what you mean about substrate water ? You should have the water level or below the substrate, and no, temp does not matter again as long as its not to the extremes.


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## Paul195 (24 Jan 2013)

I will run the lighting for 12hrs a day during the emersed period so that will supply some heat as you mentioned, my LFS said I should run the heater too but I wanted to check.
By substrate water I just meant the water that is put in to cover the soil.
I intend to tie some java ferns to the wood, when I mist them should I do it with nutrients in or is this not necessary?

Many Thanks

Paul


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## Palm Tree (24 Jan 2013)

12h a day is no problem emersed, I run up to 16 hours a day on some tanks, I don't see how you could run the heater if there’s no water in the tank, you should never run a heater without water. Some people spray with EI water, but I have never had a problem with tap water. One more thing, is it only java fern you will be growing emersed?


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## Paul195 (24 Jan 2013)

Oh ok, I didn't know the heater was only supposed to be run submerged - I guess that clears that one up!

I have some John Innes 3 soil to plant into (capped with moler clay) so hopefully that will contain all the necessary nutrients for the emersed period.
I have read about keeping 80% or higher humidity but I don't have any measuring equipment so not sure how to check this? Anyway I'll be running a 58W T8 lamp in a covered tank, and will be able to mist 2 or 3 times a day.

I plan to buy a list of low to medium light plants, my current list is:-

Microsorum pteropus
Cyperus helferi
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Nomaphila stricta thai
Limnophilia aromatica
Echinodorus rose
Echinodorus ozelot red
Echinodorus xinguensis
Echinodorus cordifolius
Cryptocoryne nevellii
Gymnocoronis spilanthoides
Lobelia cardinalis
Eleocharis sp mini (carpet)

My current plan is to plant them all from the emerged start and leave for 1-2 months depending on how patient I am!

Is it necessary to sieve the soil and/or rinse or wet it before it goes into the tank?

Thanks for your help.

Paul


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## Palm Tree (24 Jan 2013)

John innes 3 is great , I use it in my tanks and I love it. You may want to watch using moler clay though as it is very light and can easily expose the soil which you defiantly don't want.
I have never measured humidity, java fern is a good indicator as it shouldn't ever be dry. I will get a hygrometer to measure humidity soon though. Personally I wouldn't buy stem plants to dry start, they grow fast enough submerged. I would stick with the Eleocharis, as this grows a lot faster emersed than submerged. I personally wouldn't bother with any plants emersed except for the Eleocharis, minus the crypt and the java fern, none of them are 'slow' growers. The Cyperus will grow really tall emersed as well .You could even skip the dry start all together if you wanted, it is mainly used to establish carpeting plants.
Just out of curiosity what size tank is it?


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## Paul195 (24 Jan 2013)

Unfortunately I have already purchased the moler clay, would I be able to use a deeper layer to avoid exposing the soil or should I reconsider?



> it is mainly used to establish carpeting plants.


I wasn't aware of this as I read from many articles that its best to plant heavily from the start etc. I guess they must have meant for carpet plants. Thanks for letting me know anyway!

Its a long thin tank, 5ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft (ish) just short of 200L

Paul


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## Palm Tree (25 Jan 2013)

The moler clay should be ok, you just have to be more careful when moving plants.
The dry start method is generally used to let carpet plants establish like HC, when articles say plant heavily from the start they generally mean when the tank is full of water. The main problem with stem plants is they will die off when converting to emersed, and then have to convert back to the submersed form.
Thats quite a nice sized tank, more than 200l though, more like 300l or so. Will you be using one 58w t8 light when its filled?


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## Paul195 (25 Jan 2013)

Hi

Yes sorry, I got my measurements wrong. Its 162Wx42Hx28D cm which is 190L.

Yes I will be using 1x 58W T8 lamp with reflector as advised by Clive in this thread. Do you think I would be able to get a carpet of Eleocharis to grow with this (I read that it's one of the easiest)?
If so, I also need to consider if it is viable to do this cost wise as its a fairly large area (approx 162 x10cm) - it's £6 a pot - how many pots do you think I might need for an area this size? 

I have been inspired by the journals and photos of other tanks with carpets, although I do appreciate that most of these are high tech tanks. I would rather skip the carpet & DSM method if its unlikely to do well or make an otherwise low maintenance tank higher maintenance.

Paul


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## Palm Tree (25 Jan 2013)

Eleocharis is an easy grower, I love it. I have a carpet establishing in my 600x380x380 mm tank with one 24w t5 about 8 inches from the water surface. Your lighting will be ok, there's better things to invest in than extra lighting, like pressurised CO2 for instance. If you like really densely planted tanks then you may find you want to add another t8 tube in the future, but probably not a 5 ft tube, maybe a 3ft tube or something similar, just so that tank isn't so dark. £6 a pot for eleocharis is expensive, unless its tropica 1-2 grow stuff which is grown in a gel. I would normally advise going to maidenhead aquatics and looking in the pond section, £4 for a 3'' pot grown emersed, but due to the time of year this may not be an option. Look on our sponsors websites for eleocharis, it is normally £3 a pot. If it wasn't winter I would have given you a massive portion of the stuff to get you started as I grow it emersed.
Eleocharis is a low maintenance carpet plant, I can't plant in nicely in molar clay so I don't bother, I use Pygmy chain swords instead. This is where a dry start is good, you can establish a nice big 5ft carpet without any floating away, then you can fill after a couple of months and it'll be held down by a net of roots in the substrate.
If you like carpets, go with eleocharis and give it a dry start, you won't regret it (hydrocotyle goes well with it too). When I’m dry starting I use a lot of light to get fast growth so I would use you 2x40w t8's as well, as you don't have to worry about algae.


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## Paul195 (25 Jan 2013)

> I can't plant in nicely in molar clay so I don't bother, I use Pygmy chain swords instead


 
So you are using a total moler clay substrate? so if I get all the lights on full whack and do the DSM then the Eleocharis will root properly into my soil / moler clay? 

I had planned a trip to MA this weekend anyway as it happens to look at the wood and rock selections. I will enquire about the hairgrass too. 

So to confirm then, from my list of plants above, the only one to use the DSM with is the hairgrass and everything else should be added just before I fill? And lastly, does it matter if I only have the front of the substrate planted i.e will the soil cycle properly in the areas which are not planted with grass during the dry start?

Cheers 

Paul


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## Palm Tree (25 Jan 2013)

Total molar clay in a 3ft and 1ft tank, with the 3ft I am currently changing back to sand and I'm changing to John innes 3 and black sand this weekend in the 1ft cube, I hate the stuff. I normally use a black and grey sand/fine gravel to cap soil tanks. Its just personal taste though.
Eleocharis spreads via runners, so it will cause a web like mass of roots which will keep it anchored, although the extra light isn't essential it should speed up the process a lot.
My advice is to stick with eleocharis for now and get a nice carpet going, then add lots of big, cheap fast growing plants at the start when you fill. The more plants the better, but stick with cheap fast growing plants like Echinodorus ,Gymnocoronis, Nomaphila, Hygrophila and Ceratophyllym ect and leave the crypts ect till after you have an established mass of plants. You will be able to swap a lot of plants on here, so you could swap your excess trimmings for crypts and other plants you like. That way you will probably avoid most algae and a lot of the problems people have with planted tanks. Start a journal of your tank on here as well 
It doesn't matter about only having the substrate planted, the substrate should cycle plants or no plants.


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## Paul195 (25 Jan 2013)

Thanks, thats a great help. I have been in the garage for the last few weeks building a new canopy for the tank and am nearly finished so will start next weekend now. 

Just one more thing, If I were to accidentally expose the soil at any stage, what would I need to do to ?  say a 50% water change ?


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## Palm Tree (25 Jan 2013)

It depends on how much you expose, I occasionally disrupt the soil when uprooting big Hygrophilas and I get a small cloud of murky water about 3'' in size which disappears. Just make sure you cover the soil back as fast as you can, the longer you leave it the worse it gets. I have never done a water change because of that, but then again I have never exposed a lot of soil at once. I don't think the soil would be that toxic, so a water chance probably won't be necessary. You just have to make your own judgement, but if a lot was exposed I’d do a big water change to dilute whatever pollutants would be in the water. Good luck with your canopy build and remember to post some pictures up after your done


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## Paul195 (26 Jan 2013)

Will do. 

Cheers

Paul


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