# Never give up.



## Mark Evans (6 Oct 2012)

No matter how hard things can get, never give up. 

I've posted an image from one of my first ever tanks....algae ridden.


2 by saintly's pics, on Flickr

With care and understanding, you can turn things around.


3 by saintly's pics, on Flickr


this by saintly's pics, on Flickr

Once youve got that basic understanding of growing plants, then your in a position to do what you please...


iaplc by saintly's pics, on Flickr

my IAPLC 2012...which didnt make the top 100.It does look better once clicked on.


Mark Evans 2012 by saintly's pics, on Flickr


aponogeten crispus red copy by saintly's pics, on Flickr


tank-at-10 by saintly's pics, on Flickr


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## Piece-of-fish (6 Oct 2012)

Nice development Mark. Is that the same tank  8) before and after?
Please please post all your work in one topic


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## johnski (6 Oct 2012)

When I first got into this hobby in 2008, my first tank didn't do too well either. It can be incredibly disheartening watching algae slowly ruin your tank when you don't quite have the full knowledge on how to deal with it effectively. 

Just gotta keep reading and keep at it to reap the full reward. I'm still no Mark Evans though lol.


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## Tomfish (6 Oct 2012)

I'm doing my first scape. Battling with co2 issues and patchy plant growth. Not to mention my re-replant of my large HC carpet. All this is getting me a little down beat. Your post was just what I needed.  What's the time scale between earlier and later pics?


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## curefan (6 Oct 2012)

Good advice Mark.....Ive had many a time when I felt like giving up, but im glad i never did!


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## Quetzalcoatl (6 Oct 2012)

Truly inspirational.Thanks.  

I`m going through this phase right now. I Know what I want to do, and know what I need to do, but I`m being held back by both lack of funds, and time. I shall keep fighting my battle as your early images are kind of where I`m at right now, and your latter images, are where I want to be one day. Thanks


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## Kristoph91 (6 Oct 2012)

NICE


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## AverageWhiteBloke (6 Oct 2012)

I have been trying for a decent planted tank seriously now for about 3 years. My first being a disaster and then just when I was getting there a house move forced me into a strip down twice   My latest tank is not yet fully grown in but using all I have learned in this forum each step of the way has been easier, more teething problems avoided and quicker better results.

Keep applying what you've learned and things can be seen improving and the hobby becomes more enjoyable with more time admiring your handy work and thinking about scaping than looking for answers to problems. When I first started I was trying to get plants to grow. Now I think more about which plants will look best where and that's got to be a leap in the right direction.   

My philosophy these days is. Best way to kill algae is to grow plants!


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## Mark Evans (6 Oct 2012)

Once youve established the basics and taken full control over your light situation, your rolling.


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## b1zbaz (6 Oct 2012)

I'm struggling this forum needs a page just for images of members tanks


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## Ady34 (6 Oct 2012)

Top post Mark   
Im exceptionally frustrated at the moment and this post is exactly what the doctor ordered.
Cheers,
Ady.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (8 Oct 2012)

> I'm struggling this forum needs a page just for images of members tanks



The Journal part of the forum is where members show off their tanks from start to finish and the Planted Tank Gallery is for members completed tanks who may have not did a journal and just want to show off the finished article.


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## LondonDragon (8 Oct 2012)

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> The Journal part of the forum is where members show off their tanks from start to finish and the Planted Tank Gallery is for members completed tanks who may have not did a journal and just want to show off the finished article.



Correct, once you complete a journal you should post your best photos on a new topic in the Tank Gallery and there you can include links to our journals if people want to see how you achieved it.


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## michj (21 Oct 2012)

amazing tanks! that is work to be proud of.
I started off full of enthusiasm having never used live plants in my tanks, but gradually i started to lose plants and kind of gave up. This was the first post I read today having not been on in a while and mostly only reading when I did. Its very hard to look at the tanks of you guys and not feel inspired, and so I hope soon to make my own contribution. just need to start planning for my low light set up .


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## plantbrain (21 Oct 2012)

FYI, Amano spent 10 years dealing with BBA and other algae. I spent 3 and yes, both us still get algae every so often, but we both can cure any algae issue, at least at some point.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (21 Oct 2012)

> FYI, Amano spent 10 years dealing with BBA and other algae. I spent 3 and yes, both us still get algae every so often, but we both can cure any algae issue, at least at some point.


I think ill print that post off and selotape it to the inside of my cabinet door for the next time I'm having a bad algae day


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## plantbrain (22 Oct 2012)

Well, if you had the nasty BBA covered nasty stuff, most would give up. I just started ignoring that and looking at the new growth that was free. That's when it dawned on me that it's the plant growth, not the algae, that should be the focus. Amano figured that out as well as have quite a no# of people independently.

I think we suffered longer because there was a lack of information, then a language barrier for the various languages that did have access to the information, mostly German and Dutch it would seem in hindsight. But even this was a VERY small group. Once the net started up in 1993-1995 for many in the public(at least here in the USA), we started communicating a lot more with the world in general.


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## clonitza (22 Oct 2012)

Unfortunately Tom, internet is full of crap and those newbies trying to sort their issues if they aren't lucky to talk to the right people or read that quality article they are doomed to fail again and again.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 Oct 2012)

There's also the issue of information changing so people need to keep abreast of the new thinking. People come across a lot of information that is out dated. Back in the day when I first started trying to keep plants books and magazines were your source of information. Very few LFS knew anything about plants and in most cases the plants they sold were semi-aquatic because they looked nice and just dissolved once put in the tank.
I still have these books and use them more for plant ID. Often when reading them it amazes me how much the thinking has changed. Very high light, slow water movement and avoiding nitrate and phosphate like the plague. This gets repeated over and over again. This bad information carries on today with a lot of commercial products which keep the myth going of nitrate & phos causing algae issues. It's a good job forums like this are available to dispel these myths.

My first success was using a Dennerle system. I had no idea what or why I was adding. Yellow capsule on day 15, brown tablet day 30 this on that day etc. It has to be said it was the first successful planted I had but very expensive to set up and run. I used dennerle soil substrate with under gravel heater, 125watt mercury vapour bulb and the myriad of chemicals that went with it and the plants were pushing the glass covers off the tank.

These forums have broke down and explained the processes that were going on in the tank in a way you can understand (sometimes  ) and provided links to how you can do that without to much expense. That takes the hobby in the realms of most peoples budgets and is great news for the longevity of the hobby. If it wasn't for this information I would be sitting looking at a tank full of malawis and rocks right now and worrying about how to get rid of the nitrate and phosphate by spending a fortune on specialist resins based on a test kit result that was lieing to me


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## dw1305 (22 Oct 2012)

Hi all,


> These forums have broke down and explained the processes that were going on in the tank in a way you can understand (sometimes  ) and provided links to how you can do that without to much expense. That takes the hobby in the realms of most peoples budgets and is great news for the longevity of the hobby. If it wasn't for this information I would be sitting looking at a tank full of malawis and rocks right now and worrying about how to get rid of the nitrate and phosphate by spending a fortune on specialist resins based on a test kit result that was lieing to me


I think we can all relate to this, when I came back to fish keeping after a long time away, the 2 things that I found absolutely incredible were the range of fish available and the absolutely jaw dropping lies and nonsense from the purveyors of lamps, chemical media, filtration media  etc. 

I had a pretty good idea about botany, light and biological filtration, so I just found articles, forums etc where people were knowledgeable in areas which I knew something about, and then I worked on the assumption that they probably were fairly knowledgeable about the things that I didn't understand. 

I started the the "Krib" (where people like Mike Wise, Tom Barr and Erik Olsen resided), and that was how I initially found "Apistogramma Forums", where Ed Seeley was a member, and from there to the UKAPS etc.

cheers Darrel


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## plantbrain (22 Oct 2012)

clonitza said:
			
		

> Unfortunately Tom, internet is full of crap and those newbies trying to sort their issues if they aren't lucky to talk to the right people or read that quality article they are doomed to fail again and again.



Well initially, the groups on the net were a bit more rational, they took what they could find and made hypothesis and went about testing it. Then modified it to suit the falsification.

Information(the net today), is NOT knowledge.

There is no net "filter". No one vets the information, so misinformation spreads, particularly if it sounds believable. 
This also works VERY well in all sorts of myths and politics of course.


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## plantbrain (22 Oct 2012)

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> There's also the issue of information changing so people need to keep abreast of the new thinking. People come across a lot of information that is out dated. Back in the day when I first started trying to keep plants books and magazines were your source of information. Very few LFS knew anything about plants and in most cases the plants they sold were semi-aquatic because they looked nice and just dissolved once put in the tank.
> I still have these books and use them more for plant ID. Often when reading them it amazes me how much the thinking has changed. Very high light, slow water movement and avoiding nitrate and phosphate like the plague. This gets repeated over and over again. This bad information carries on today with a lot of commercial products which keep the myth going of nitrate & phos causing algae issues. It's a good job forums like this are available to dispel these myths.
> 
> My first success was using a Dennerle system. I had no idea what or why I was adding. Yellow capsule on day 15, brown tablet day 30 this on that day etc. It has to be said it was the first successful planted I had but very expensive to set up and run. I used dennerle soil substrate with under gravel heater, 125watt mercury vapour bulb and the myriad of chemicals that went with it and the plants were pushing the glass covers off the tank.
> ...



Interesting and true also.

I gave an old Dupla Optimum Aquarium book from 1986(English) to a local member and I looked through it, they got about 90% of the stuff right. Not bad for 30+ years ago.

Heat cable thing was wrong, but most of the other stuff was right.
ADA is similar, most of the stuff is correct, They have about 90-95% correct, but if you poo poo the 5%, and with valid support, they go bat guano crazy. You are anti ADA! 
Even though I support them 90%   

As I said earlier:
"misinformation spreads, particularly if it sounds believable."


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## plantbrain (22 Oct 2012)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> I started the the "Krib" (where people like Mike Wise, Tom Barr and Erik Olsen resided), and that was how I initially found "Apistogramma Forums", where Ed Seeley was a member, and from there to the UKAPS etc.
> 
> cheers Darrel



This was one of the first planted sites mostly because many of the people were IT folks. 
But if you look at how questions were approached and the attitudes, it is unlike anything or forum we have today in the hobby.

Dupla was very $$$ back them and like ADA is today. So many sought to figure out a way around their products DIY.
Mark Rothstein loves Apisto's and that was one of his 2 main passions in running the mailing list(the days before forums).


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## naz (9 Jan 2013)

hi mark some of your tanks stunning mate......


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## Ravenswing (11 Jan 2013)

It`s always heart warming to meet other people who really care their plants. Who consentrate keep them happy instead of endless battle against algae. Who are willing to share their knowledge and experiences. And fantastic photos of course!

The photo of _Aponogeton crispus_ red is the most beautiful aquarium photo Iv never seen. I could just sit and stare it for hours. Thanks for sharing it and absolutely great work!


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