# Purigen



## Dave Spencer

Does anybody else out there use this stuff? I am using it on two of my tanks now (I find it difficult to fit in to my nano tank filter) and am mightily impressed with the water clarity it gives. 

All my tanks had what I presumed to be crystal clear water, but Purigen takes the clarity a notch higher. It is most noticeable in my Iwagumi which is basically a lot of water column inside an opti white high clarity glass 60cm tank.

The only downside is that you need to open up your filter every three weeks or so to regenerate the stuff overnight, and then open it up again to put the Purigen back in the following day. What I do is keep a spare bag of Purigen, so when I take out an exhausted bag the standby goes straight in. The exhausted one is then regenerated and left as standby for the next filetr opening. it is still a bit of a pain, but it minimises the number of times you have to open up your filter.

When I do water changes, the water I take out is clearer than the tap water going in.

Dave.


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## CJ Castle

It sounds very impressive... How often can you regenerate Purigen before it becomes exhausted?


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## Maximumbob

I have some but have yet to use it... sounds like its going in at next water change


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## Graeme Edwards

Sounds interesting, would it work well on removing tannins from leaching bog wood????

How do you recharge it? 

Oh and have you got a link for us by any chance?

Cheers.


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## CJ Castle

> Oh and have you got a link for us by any chance?



Graeme, you can get Seachem purigen from AE...


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## Graeme Edwards

Cool, just had a look, sounds very good, and easy to recharge, even better.


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## fishgeek

how do you guys find the claim that purigen adsorbs nitrogen as ammonia/nitrite/nitrate?

does this not limit what is available for the plnats?


andrew


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## Dave Spencer

It doesn`t take any ferts away from the plants that we dose. What it does do is remove organic nitrogenous waste. Unlike carbon, it is more specific in what it targets.

I recharge mine in ordinary household bleach, but make sure you use unscented as opposed to pine etc. This leaves you with Purigen at a high pH, so I buffer mine down to a pH close to my tanks.

Graeme, it does remove tanins. The product is by Seachem and you can read up about it on their website. Purigen came to my notice on APC when Jeff Senske raved about it.

Like I say, it is a lot of faffing around, but if you want crystal clear water.....

Dave.


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## fishgeek

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> It doesn`t take any ferts away from the plants that we dose. What it does do is remove organic nitrogenous waste. Unlike carbon, it is more specific in what it targets.
> Dave.




isn't the nitrogen what the plants want to use?
NPK and all that

andrew


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## Dave Spencer

fishgeek said:
			
		

> isn't the nitrogen what the plants want to use?
> NPK and all that
> andrew



What we add is ferts in their mineral form. Purigen does not impact on these, but it will remove the causes of discolouration such as tanins and humic acid.

Dave.


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## fishgeek

dave  i understand the claims made by seachem that trace elements etc are not removed by purgen

it seems to my inexperienced mind that if plants utilise ammonium or nitrite nitrate and we have a chemical resin that removes those then the two processes seem competive to me

prehaps i am misunderstanding something?

prehasp the plants are more efficent at fixing nitrogen ?

andrew


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## Dave Spencer

Fishgeek,

Ammonia and nitrite are not welcome in my tanks. As for my plants fixing N, well they do that from the KNO3 that I dose.

Dave.


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## fishgeek

it seems unnatural to me that there would be no ammonia in an  ecosystem 

i take it you have no fish in the tanks?
just plants

i know we theoretically are looking at zero readings for ammonia , i assume that in my tanks this is just because utilisation is quicker than production
ie plants and filter bacteria are fixing or oxidisingthrough to other forms of nitrgenous waste

if my bacteria and plants are already utilising this nitrogen source and i add something else that adsorbs those nitrogen molecules , i assume(and this is what i would like to understand better) that maybe my filter bacteria reduce in numbers? maybe my plants have less nitrogen for growth 

obviously, as you are doing, nitrogen can be added to the system
though here i still wonder why add it in one process and remove it with another?

i dont understand purigen , and it seems to have some great commnets about it's ability to increase water clarity... it seems that is because of it's ability to remove organic "staining" of the water

i keep fish and plants together , and am trying to learn more about the plants as i may have to move/reduce tank life to some

i tend to accept my nitrogen source as being fish food related, either uneaten(lets hope not) or after processing preotein etc and releasing ammonia or urea as fish waste 

i was also under the impression that plants would actually prefer to fix ammonium ions rather than the nitrogen presented as nitrate ? 

andrew


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## Dave Spencer

fishgeek said:
			
		

> i take it you have no fish in the tanks?
> just plants



All my tanks have fish in them. 



			
				fishgeek said:
			
		

> if my bacteria and plants are already utilising this nitrogen source and i add something else that adsorbs those nitrogen molecules , i assume(and this is what i would like to understand better) that maybe my filter bacteria reduce in numbers? maybe my plants have less nitrogen for growth



I place the Purigen as the last stage of filtration, so the water has passed through the bacteria before it reaches the Purigen. All it is doing is giving a final polish to the water by removing organics that would be discharged by the filter. 



			
				fishgeek said:
			
		

> obviously, as you are doing, nitrogen can be added to the system
> though here i still wonder why add it in one process and remove it with another?



Personally, I have never looked at Ammonia as a form of plant fertilisation. What is the ppm of Ammonia in your water as a first choice supply of N for your plants compared to nitrates?



			
				fishgeek said:
			
		

> i dont understand purigen , and it seems to have some great commnets about it's ability to increase water clarity... it seems that is because of it's ability to remove organic "staining" of the water



It works for me. I understand your scepticism, because I don`t add anything to my tanks other than plant ferts (no snake oils for me), but Purigen is not an additive, it is a further stage of water purification.



			
				fishgeek said:
			
		

> i was also under the impression that plants would actually prefer to fix ammonium ions rather than the nitrogen presented as nitrate ?



Indeed they do, but I am not about to start fertilising with Ammonia. Like I said, what is the proportion of N available to plants from Ammonia compared to nitrates? Ammonia is a toxin to fish and an algae trigger. I have started adding Purigen to already established planted tanks with zero detrimental effects on my plants` health. The only changes I have observed are water which is that little bit clearer, which is worth the effort, in my opinion.

Dave.


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## fishgeek

thanks the comprehensive response dave

i cant answer the ammonia query for my water  as i have not measured my water quality (as far as ammonia) in the last 2 yrs 
i am prehaps moving, and defiintely having work done in the area's i keep some of my tanks , so at present i am being forced to downsize 

many of my tanks are being emptied of fish 

i'm not sceptical of purigen, i just am inquisitive , oh and cheap  

andrew


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## Dave Spencer

fishgeek said:
			
		

> i'm not sceptical of purigen, i just am inquisitive , oh and cheap
> 
> andrew



Nothing wrong with being inquisitive Andrew. When I read about the cocktails some people on other forums add to their tanks to raise this or lower that, I really have to despair.

Hopefully, this forum will become the first stop for any plantheads with inquisitive minds.

Dave.


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## ceg4048

Hello Andrew, 
                      If you are a Barr report subscriber it may help to search the Newsletter section where you will find Mr. Barrs discussion regarding Nitrogen. I pulled a paragraph from the newsletter which may sum up this item:

QUOTE
====
Are the forms of nitrogen important?

There are several forms of nitrogen but most aquarist are familiar with some of these such as NH4+ and NO3- which are the two forms that plants will
use. There is also a distinction between Dissolved organic (DON) and dissolved inorganic nitrogen (DIN) in the water column. Plants can use the DIN but have
trouble with the DON fraction. While there is some scant evidence that plants will use a small amount of NO2-, it is generally a toxic anion that plays an insignificant role in our tanks after a period on new tank cycling. Try adding NO2- and see if the plants remove any significant amount. Try many species.
The concentration levels will sit there unless you have bacteria to covert it to NO3- in which case the NO3- will be removed...

UNQUOTE
======

This is a fascinating article which addresses the mechanics of the Nitrogen cycle within closed systems and addresses the argument of whether plants have a preference for NH4 versus NO3.

The conclusion therefore is that at low NH4 concentrations macrophytes have a strong preference for NO3 leaving the NH4 for the microbial reduction, and that they have a strong preference for Nitrogen dosed inorganicly as opposed to the organicg forms found in the reduction of Amino acids and proteins. Therefore if Purigen specifically targets these organic forms of Nitrogen while leaving our dosed mineral forms untouched it is not at all surprising that this product is as successful as claimed. Evidently, much of the discoloration of the tank water is caused by these organic forms so it would appear to be a win-win for Purigen. The fact that it is (supposedly) indefinitely rechargeable means it's a perfect product for cheapskates.

Hopefully this clarifies a bit. You should definitely review the Nitrogen newsletter. It is dated 2005 but is not difficult to find using "newsletter" as a search parameter. You do have to pay $12.95 to access these newsletter though...

Cheers,


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## fishgeek

organic meaning carbon based? i assume that is the definition used in the barr report

i guess the purigen then is binding the organic and the any nitrogen bound there is taken along for the ride

and i guess the plants find it easy to access the nitrogen when not bound s tightly, as happens with simple salts of ammonia etc

makes sense 
i guess i will ave to try some , thanks for all the education
andrew
i'm liking this site already


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## ceg4048

Hi Andrew,
                Yes by convention an organic compound is any member of the class of chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon, however, I believe the convention also requires that the compound be a product of a living cycle so that compounds such as carbonates, carbon oxides and cyanides, as well as elemental carbon are considered inorganic. As a result of the metabolic processes of the plants as well as of the fauna, the exceted products will include organic products such as  Polysaccharides, carbohydrates and sugars, Enzymes, Hormones Lipids and fatty acids,  Neurotransmitters, Nucleic acids, Proteins, peptides and amino acids and even Vitamins.

Now really, I'm not sure if it is necessarily solely the strength of the molecular bonds within the organic compounds that are a deterrent to the plants. It may be that the incredible complexity of those molecules  require many more reduction processes to actually strip the Nitrogen whereas possibly separating N from O3 may require far fewer reduction steps, so that's where the ease might be, but I'm totally guessing at this point. That sounds like a really good question to ask Mr. Barr though. I don't think he actually addressed that point in the article. I'll have to re-read it!

Cheers,


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## Maximumbob

I dove in and put purigen into my filter along with API phoszorb.

All I can say is WOW.

The water clarity and fish colours are fantastic.  The plants seem to be loving it.  Increased photosynthesis etc.

My only concern is how long I can keep this up before a recharge/replace is necessary.


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## Dave Spencer

This certainly turned in to an interesting thread. I am still working my way through Tom`s articles, but the nitrogen one will have to be next on my list. 

Thanks for the quote ceg4048, but it does leave me wondering why high tech tanks with heavy planting do not cycle, if ammonia is not the forst choice source of N.

Glad you noticed a difference Maximbob.

Dave.


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## JamesC

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> I recharge mine in ordinary household bleach, but make sure you use unscented as opposed to pine etc. This leaves you with Purigen at a high pH, so I buffer mine down to a pH close to my tanks.



Looks like a very interesting product and one I think I'm just going to have to try. How do you buffer it down after a recharge? 

Thanks
James


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## Aeropars

If your left with an acidic compound after a recharge, that surley means that there is bleach particles left in it! Especially if it can then leech acidity into the water!!


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## Maximumbob

quote from seachem webpage:

*Regeneration*: Soak in a 1:1 bleach:water solution for 24 hours in a non-metalic container in a well ventilated area and away from children. Rinse well, then soak for 8 hours with a solution containing 2 tablespoons of ChlorGuardâ„¢, Primeâ„¢, or equivalent dechlorinator per cup of water. Rinse well. For freshwater use, soak for 4 hours with a solution containing 1 tablespoon of buffer per cup of water (Discus Bufferâ„¢, Neutral Regulatorâ„¢, or Acid Bufferâ„¢). Original color and full activity should now be restored and Purigenâ„¢ is ready for reuse. Caution: some slime coat products may permanently foul Purigenâ„¢ and render regeneration difficult. Do not reuse if odor of chlorine is detectable. In case of doubt, soak beads in small quantity of water and test for residual chlorine with a chlorine test kit.


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## JamesC

Ah, thanks for that. So it requires buying some acid buffer as well then?

James


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## Moss Man

I will have to try this stuff, it sounds great!


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## Dave Spencer

James,

I use API pH 6.5 which is pretty close to the pH of my tanks. Obviously, without buffering the Purigen after the bleaching, it will have a very high pH and could have quite an effect.

Purigen is a bit of faffing around, but it is most definitely worth the effort in my Iwagumi. Not so much in my Juwel tank though, because they come with tinted glass for some reason.

Dave.


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## George Farmer

I've been reading a lot about this product and it does sound very useful, especially when setting up a tank when algae is likely.

I'll probably try it out in my next tank (150 gal. planted discus), but doubt I'll run it long-term.


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## pompeyfan

Hi guys, 
We seemed to have covered the organic nitrogen side of things, but what about organic carbon or more importantly the other checmical 'benefit' of EXCEL. Does anyone have experience of using PURIGEN whilst dosing/overdosing with Flourish Excel :?: 

Pete.


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## Dave Spencer

That is a good question Pete.

Seachem have just replied to my question, and they say it is fine to dose Excel when using Purigen.

Dave.


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## homersimpson

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> ... The fact that it is (supposedly) indefinitely rechargeable means it's a perfect product for cheapskates...
> Cheers,



I am sorry but this statement is false.  It is not "indefinitely rechargeable."

Seachem is a sponsor at Aquariumplantcentral forums and have a tech support rep to answer member questions related to Purigen.  According to the Seachem Tech Support(and this is a direct quote).

"Purigen will get to a point that regeneration will not bring back the full color. That typically occurs around 8 regeneration's."


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## ceg4048

homersimpson said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... The fact that it is (supposedly) indefinitely rechargeable means it's a perfect product for cheapskates...
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry but this statement is false.  It is not "indefinitely rechargeable."
> 
> Seachem is a sponsor at Aquariumplantcentral forums and have a tech support rep to answer member questions related to Purigen.  According to the Seachem Tech Support(and this is a direct quote).
> 
> "Purigen will get to a point that regeneration will not bring back the full color. That typically occurs around 8 regeneration's."
Click to expand...


Hi Homer,
                  Thanks a lot for the clarification. OK, well I guess that means typical  8 regenerations means 1 pound 25p per cycle. Not quite perfect but if it gives demonstrable results that's not too bad I suppose.

Thanks again!

Cheers,


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## Dave Spencer

I have just changed 100ml of Purigen on a 120l tank that had been in there for two months. When I looked at the state of the Purigen, it was only 30% exhausted, so I shall be changing mine a lot less often.

Dave.


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## Maximumbob

I have just attempted to 'recharge' my Purigen.

Its seems I misunderstood the advice given - i assumed you only needed an non-amine based water conditioner during the recharge phase..  I have been using Nutrafin Aquaplus water conditioner.  It apparently (after much internet searching) contains an amine based product which has fouled my purigen.

I first suspected something when I attempted to soak it in a bleach solution and the colour change was minimal.  It only changed back to normal after a prolonged soak in 1:1 bleach water solution

The moral of my story is... learn from my mistake, if you use purigen, switch to seachem prime water conditioner.  It will make your life easier!


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## james3200

Anyone here used this on a new setup?

I saw George mentioned it would be an idea for him. I have it currently on my 180lt dicsus tank, but thats getting closed down as soon as the 800lt is cycled.. Just thought that it may interfere with the cycling? Probably a good thing to add it after a couple of weeks rather than straight away, what are your thoughts? Tank will have the media from an 2217 & ada substrate of a 1yr old setup, so should help cycling it.

James


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## Dave Spencer

In my next tank I am going to run Purigen and Zeolite from the word go. I don`t cycle my tanks, I just let the plants carry out the purification, and let the bacteria colony catch up at a later date. Hopefully, I will be minimising any early algae issues.

This applies to a high tech tank, though, with a high plant mass and rapid growth.

Dave.


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## beeky

I can't see how the bacteria will ever catch up as there'll be nothing left for them to feed on. IMO there should be a cycling period with no substrate or plants and then stripped down and set up properly with a now cycled filter. Only my opinion though.


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## james3200

Thanks for the feedback,

I think i will go for a mix of your opinions. The tank is a high tech setup with an ADA substrate / media from a 1yr 2217 & 18lt of used AS, so that will feed the filter right away, but i think i will give it a week to 10 days to help cycle. I would go with Daves view but the discus need their new home ASAP.. 

James


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## Dave Spencer

beeky said:
			
		

> I can't see how the bacteria will ever catch up as there'll be nothing left for them to feed on. IMO there should be a cycling period with no substrate or plants and then stripped down and set up properly with a now cycled filter. Only my opinion though.



The reason I don`t bother building up a large bacteria colony during a cycle is because I know it will reduce later on as the plant mass increases. I have had no problems adding Otos and Amano shrimp within days of starting up a tank.

At the end of the day, it is about peace of mind, I guess.

Dave.


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## George Farmer

I'm going to be using Purigen for the first time in my Rio 125 this weekend.  I look forward to it.

How often, on average, should one consider re-charging?  Fish load very low. 100ml bag, 125 litre tank, 1200lph external filter.


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## Maximumbob

I check the colour during my filter maintenance.  You recharge it when colour is dark brown.


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## Dave Spencer

On my 120l I changed it after a month, but only found the outer beads to be brown. The latest lot has been in for three months now, so I may take a look this week. This tank is lightly stocked as well.

Dave.


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## Dave Spencer

I have just changed a 100ml bag of Purigen out of my 120l tank filter this morning and would estimate that it was 50% exhausted after three months.

My 60l may get a change after six months, bearing this in mind. As for the 26l, I will probably change it when the tank comes up for a rescape.

Dave.


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## John Starkey

Hi all, i have been using purigen for the last two months, i have two eheim 2028s and have a bag of purigen in each one and my water clarity is brilliant so i can highly recommend it, regards john


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## George Farmer

I've been using for a week now.

No noticeable clarity change, but to be honest it was crystal anyway with a 1200lph external on a Rio 125 stocked with just otos and shrimp...

One question?

Does it affect Excel - and 'organic' source of carbon?


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## Dave Spencer

Yep! According to Seachem you can use Excel alongside Purigen.

Dave.


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## Ed Seeley

I've just realised I'm using Purigen in my nano that I'm dosing with Easy-carbo!  I assume it'll be ok as Excel is ok, but what do you guys reckon?  How will I know if it's messed up?


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## stevet

I am also using this product now. Not sure if i can say it has made an overwhelming difference to water clarity. Very hard to judge as i have loaches in my tank which do stir up some detritus at times. and usually fairly clear water anyway.

I need to dose Protozin in this tank now and i have heard that Purigen will remove the medication from the water, effectivelly treating it like a toxin - does anyone know if this is true?


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## stevet

Found the answer on Seachems website (eventually) to this in their secton on medications. Apparently you can use Purigen whilst medicating as Purigen absorbs organic material only.[/i]


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## Dave Spencer

Sorry Steve. I could have sworn I replied to your question.

I have added some wood to my tank, that turned the bucket water to tea ,while it was soaking. The tank water has stayed crystal clear, but I dare say the Purigen will become exhausted in double quick time.

Dave.


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull

just got some of this to see what you all rave about!   

how much do you think I need for 235litres? Is the stated capacity accurate of 100ml per 400litres?.


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