# Nano fish recommendation



## tiger15 (27 Jun 2018)

What nano fish can be kept in an unheated planted bowl that feed mostly on algae and can withstand large temp fluctuation from low 60s to high 80s F.  I currently have cherry shrimp in it that feed exclusively on algae and bio film.


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## castle (27 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> withstand



A few, but I am not going to recommend them.


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## tam (27 Jun 2018)

How big is the bowl?


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## tiger15 (27 Jun 2018)

One gallon.


tam said:


> How big is the bowl?


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## gregl (27 Jun 2018)

None, it would be considered animal cruelty


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## zozo (27 Jun 2018)

The only commercial fish capable of surviving the harshest conditions is the carp/goldfish.. Hence they are kept i bowls for centuries in every continent on the planet.
These fish even survive outside the water for many ours if not dried out. Even if they dry out it takes a long aginzing time for them to finaly die. I once found a completely dried out goldfish on the floor. I thought it was dead, took it of the ground and it sstarted moving. Did put it back in the water and remarkably it wasn't even damaged. It hid away for 30 minutes to recuparate and went on whit its daily life like nothing happend. These animals probaly have a system they can highly regulate or even nearly shut it down to survive.

Still even if a fish can take it or has capabilities to survive it, it doesn't mean it feels happy to undergo such conditions it probably feels like a torture to them. But what else can they do than hang on to life?

Any fish requires a fully biologicaly matured properly sized and filtered aqaurium.. Personaly i'm a extremist i measure the shortest distance of the tank usual the width.. And make sure any fish i put in can at least swin his own body lengt 10 x in this distance.. Still not ideal and anything bigger is imho cruelty.. 

So!? Na nono fish..


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## tiger15 (27 Jun 2018)

Goldfish can take harsh environment and extreme temp,but not a nano fish that can fit in a small bowl.  

I read an old TFH artical that goldfish can be air shipped waterless, just moist cubicles with dry ice sedation to calm the fish, not sure if it is still going on.  I have witnessed carps, goldfish ancestor, sold in Thailand farmer market in waterless containers, some hanging in the air by the dorsal fin wiggling to advertise sale.


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## kadoxu (27 Jun 2018)

+1 to no fish. I had a hard enough time finding fish suitable for a heated 5 gal tank...



tiger15 said:


> I read an old TFH artical that goldfish can be air shipped waterless, just moist cubicles with dry ice sedation to calm the fish, not sure if it is still going on. I have witnessed carps, goldfish ancestor, sold in Thailand farmer market in waterless containers, some hanging in the air by the dorsal fin wiggling to advertise sale.


They probably can, but it still doesn't make it right...


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## tiger15 (27 Jun 2018)

Bird watchers will consider keeping any cage bird immoral, as birds are supposed to roam free.  Likewise, reef divers will consider keeping coral fish in a glass cage immoral.  Keeping dwarf shrimp in a gallon bowl is OK, but not nano fish of the same size. Keeping a 1 inch nano fish in a gal bowl has proportionally more water volume per unit mass than keeping  a 2 inch betta in a quart jar.  Mass is approximately proportional to the third power of the length and the math shows that betta in a quart jar has 32 times less water per unit mass than a 1 inch fish in a gal bowl.


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## zozo (27 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> Bird watchers will consider keeping any cage bird immoral, as birds are supposed to roam free.  Likewise, reef divers will consider keeping coral fish in a glass cage immoral.  Keeping dwarf shrimp in a gallon bowl is OK, but not nano fish of the same size. Keeping a 1 inch nano fish in a gal bowl has proportionally more water volume per unit mass than keeping  a 2 inch betta in a quart jar.  Mass is approximately proportional to the third power of the length and the math shows that betta in a quart jar has 32 times less water per unit mass than a 1 inch fish in a gal bowl.



The thing is, the size of the fish in relation to the water volume isn't the issue.. it's more what invironmental infleunces that work on the relative small water volume.. As you already found out, temperature is rather difficult to regulate in small water volumes. Oxygen saturation is highly temperatur related, warm water contains far less, than you need a rather large water surface erea and surface agitation to get at least a bit of oxygen into the water.. Now that is what a round bowl in relation to it's volume does not have.. It has much more volume that open water surface.. Thus this will rsult in a rather soon oxygen depletion and a fsih could suffocate or feeling stuffy for the majority of the day and get sick in the long term.

Morrality doesn't help here.. 

Fish polute the water much more than a shrimp does. This polution adds ammonia to the water column.. Converting ammonia to Nitrite and Nitrite angain to Nitrate is done by bacteria.. Guess what these bacteria use to do this.. They use oxygen.. This process will result in oxygen depletion.. If your surface area doesn't make up for that you are back to square one, stuffy fish.
Worst case scenario less oxygen less bacteria more ammonia build up... Ammonia is toxic to fish..

Also no morrality in play here.

There are more arguments why you shouldn't keep fish in a bowl no matter the volume.. But i guess 2 valid ones are enough..

No pun intented, i'm not here as the morality knight nor am i judge Dreds assistant.. You decide... 

But i agree, i know why the caged bird sings.. It sings of freedom..


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## alto (27 Jun 2018)

There are tiny guppy/endler types living in sewage ditches surviving extreme conditions - these would likely be the best candidate, they would feed on the algae microflora & baby shrimp
Again avoid any domestic, line bred fish as these are nothing like their wild cousins


Bettas survive in hot, small volumes of water due to their labyrinth organ BUT these wild Bettas are nothing like the fancy line bred domestics 
The low 60s temp would be a challenge for Betta species though & fish would be unlikely to live out their natural lifespan 
They would feed mostly on the cherry shrimp


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## alto (27 Jun 2018)

Note that OP states this is a planted bowl
 - given the many posts on ukaps about plants doing the "job" of the filter media (re don't bother with anything in your filter that _might_ slow the flow rate ... with the exception of inline CO2 reactors & inline heaters (which decrease flow rate much more than any reasonably clean media )) - how can it also be argued that a few small fish will create ammonia etc problems ... surely the plants will quickly grab up that ammonia (which is a much preferred N source over nitrate)


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## tam (27 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> One gallon.



Sorry, that's too small for any fish that would also cope with the temperature changes. To be honest it's really too small for fish altogether even if it was heated. The dilution, temperature stability and swimming space is just too limited. Best to keep that shrimp only - although you could look at snails if you wanted to add something else. I think it would be too cool for microcrabs. 

Now if you want to go a bit bigger then you have a lot more options. If you want to stick small I would say 5gallon as a minimum, that will give you room for a heater if you want one and a choice of fish.


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## Aqua360 (27 Jun 2018)

Tbf, I'd stick with shrimp, if even purely due to the open top. 

I have no qualms about keeping small killifish in 5 litres or so, but this is in tight lidded tanks and often not for a long period. 

I do know someone that has a very healthy Betta in a heated 5 litre cube, with regular water changes, this is doable and is aided with substances such as almond leaf extract to lower the pH and ammonia toxicity. You'll quite often see Thai breeders adopt this approach, but I don't care to get into the ethics of it, just putting the info out there!


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## tiger15 (28 Jun 2018)

I like the idea of wild guppy / endler that not only eat algae, but can tolerate temp extremes as they are subtropical fish.  I also like the idea of killi but don't know what species eat algae? 

I don't worry about fish jumping off open surface as my vigorous growing frogbit is blanketing the surface.  I have to thin out the frogbit from time to time to reduce the thickness. I have ramhorn snails helping out a bit but not enough.

I don't worry about pollution with heavier stocking by adding a nano fish as Alto has correctly pointed out, heavy plant mass is an effective filter. My vigorous growing frogbit and hair grass have formed dense forests on the surface and bottom.  I can hardly detect nitrate even though I regularly transfer nutrient rich water from my big fish tank to top the bowl.

I don't worry about lack of oxygen in warm water as quite the opposite, highest O2 saturation coincides with warmest temp when the sun hits the bowl and the plants pearl like crazy.  There is no open surface for air exchange, but the floating forgbit is transpiring heavily as evident by pearling in their long roots when the sun hits.  Night time may be a concern when the plants no longer generate but consume O2.  But I believe the floating blanket prevents escape of O2 accumulated during the day and captures CO2 generated at night for use when the plants wake up.  I don't know what the balance is in between when the plants expose to bright shade but no direct sun. 

I like to maintain the bowl as a self sustaining microcosm.  The sun provides external energy input, the dirt substrate and top off water provide the nutrients, and the plants, shrimp and micros complete the cycle.  I post this thread in search of a nano fish to fill in the water column, ideally one that self sustains on plants and algae without feeding.  I have no concern for a lonely fish in a tight space as fish are too primitive to have emotion.


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## MirandaB (28 Jun 2018)

"I like to maintain the bowl as a self sustaining microcosm. The sun provides external energy input, the dirt substrate and top off water provide the nutrients, and the plants, shrimp and micros complete the cycle. I post this thread in search of a nano fish to fill in the water column, ideally one that self sustains on plants and algae without feeding. I have no concern for a lonely fish in a tight space as fish are too primitive to have emotion."


That statement just beggars belief


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## Aqua360 (28 Jun 2018)

MirandaB said:


> "I like to maintain the bowl as a self sustaining microcosm. The sun provides external energy input, the dirt substrate and top off water provide the nutrients, and the plants, shrimp and micros complete the cycle. I post this thread in search of a nano fish to fill in the water column, ideally one that self sustains on plants and algae without feeding. I have no concern for a lonely fish in a tight space as fish are too primitive to have emotion."
> 
> 
> That statement just beggars belief



+1 op please find an alternative hobby


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## tiger15 (29 Jun 2018)

My planted shrimp bowl is largely self sustaining.   I do not provide artificial lighting, heating, filtration or circulation.  I do not feed the shrimp, dose the plants, or do water change.  Direct sun light supports vigorous plant growth and micros that feed the invertebrates.   I will add a nano fish on the top of the food chain to feed on the vegetation and shrimplets. 

I understand that total self sustenance is a fantasy, not even the multi million dollar Biosphere experiment in US Arizona has succeeded.  There is still substantial interventions such as replacing evaporated water with nutrient rich water from my high tech tank,  the bowl is in a heated and AC room that moderates the temp extremes;   and periodically I need to thin out excessive plant or invertebrate growth.  

The bowl has only been set up for a few months so its long term sustenance is a unknown, and it may crash one day.  Nevertheless, in comparison to my high tech tank which I have never stopped battling for algae or unhealthy plants, the bowl is doing much better right from start with vigorous plant growth and zero algae, not even green water as one expects with direct sunlight.


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## zozo (29 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> I understand that total self sustenance is a fantasy




As is this also


tiger15 said:


> I have no concern for a lonely fish in a tight space as fish are too primitive to have emotion.



For now you only make statements in the contexts my bowl this and that and "I like!" And "I want!".

Mater a fact is, it aint about you, not about what you want or like.. It's what it likes and wants, in this case the little fish you like to put in there. The best thing you need to want is live up to the responsibility to properly care for any animal that lives under your care.

But since you sincerely believe fish are nothing but primitive emotionless and notionless buggers that only breath, eat and poop. Than i truely do not understand why you come here and ask the question which of those stupid buggers is most suitable.. Regarding your opinion you already answered your own question. It would be any as long as it fits?

Good luck, living the dream of dreams..


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## tiger15 (29 Jun 2018)

zozo said:


> But since you sincerely believe fish are nothing but primitive emotionless and notionless buggers that only breath, eat and poop. Than i truely do not understand why you come here and ask the question which of those stupid buggers is most suitable



I am new to planted tanks, but not new to fish keeping.  Fish keeping has been my hobby for 40+ years, presently running 6 fish tanks and a bowl for a total of 400 gal.  So I know what fish need in general, but not specific for thousands of species that I have never kept.

Scientists have found that all warm blooded mammals and birds have emotion, even lowly rats showed grief and empathy of their dead and dying mates, and pet parrots exhibit separation anxiety of their absent owner or mate.  Fish have not known to show grief and empathy yet, and will be quick to cannibalize their dead and dying mates. That is not known to happen with warm blooded animal. Fish have instinct, but have not evolved with emotion yet.  

I will not torture fish by giving them stressful environmental conditions, rather, I am asking for fish that will fit the constraints of small space and large temp fluctuation.


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## zozo (29 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> cannibalize their dead and dying mates. That is not known to happen with warm blooded animal



Last thing i heard was Humans still were canibals not that long ago and occasionally stiil are. And afaik it was all dead what the canibalized.. 

It's what you look for and or what you ignore.. Search for it and you'll surely find articles about scientific studies stating that even fish likely have attributes like emotions.

What you intent to believe in this is rather personal... As said before no pun intented i'm not judging you if you don't.. 

Please go to http://www.seriouslyfish.com/ and search their data base.. Its about the most complete one to find out there.. Find a fish where is stated at "Aquarium Size" and "Behaviour and Compatibility" that it is suitable for a bowl.. Take that one and you're good to go..


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## kadoxu (29 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> I will not torture fish by giving them stressful environmental conditions, rather, I am asking for fish that will fit the constraints of small space and large temp fluctuation.


You were already given the answer... several times... but you're  just not taking it.


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## tiger15 (29 Jun 2018)

zozo said:


> Last thing i heard was Humans still were canibals not that long ago and occasionally stiil are. And afaik it was all dead what the canibalized..


Human became cannibals in famines out of desperation as recently as in North Korea, but don't do it on regular basis.  For religious belief, some Indian warriors ate parts of their enemies to destroy their spirit, and New Guinean women ate the brain of their dead ancestors to perpetuate their spirit.



kadoxu said:


> You were already given the answer... several times... but you're  just not taking it.


With the right fish, it's not torturing.  Thousands of betta live happily in quart jars and aren't stressed.  Paradise fish will be happy too and can withstand extreme temp variation betta cannot, but they are not nano and will annihilate the shrimp.  Except for small space, my gallon bowl has excellent water quality and good oxygen supply from dense planting.


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## mort (29 Jun 2018)

Fish might not have higher emotions but it could be argued that stress is very similar to a basic fear emotion. Stress has definitely been observed in fish with confined conditions being one of the major factors.

Now I'm not saying a fish will be stressed from being put it your tank and it depends a lot on the species of fish and what they can tolerate naturally but I think you'd be struggling to find a species that thrived in the conditions you have.

What other species do you keep in your other tanks? Perhaps you could raise a couple of fry from something in there and move them to a different tank as they grow.


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## alto (29 Jun 2018)

I rather suspect that tiger15 (whom I hope will remain an active member of ukaps) will emigrate unsuitable (or pale stressed) fish from the bowl to another tank

How many Iwagumi or light color substrate tanks abound on this forum,  or tanks without a dark side (black or blue background) ... all off these conditions contribute significantly to fish stress
Not keeping shoaling/schooling species in species groups of at least 20-30 (or more) is also stressful, yet 8-10 has become an _accepted_  number, also the assumption that similar sized species are _happy_ shoaling together ... despite phenotypic & behavioural differences


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## zozo (29 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> With the right fish, it's not torturing. Thousands of betta live happily in quart jars and aren't stressed.



That's not the point..  The point people still putting Betta fish in jars promote it with a fantasy thought that the fish still is happy. This to make others copy this absurd custom to make a profit. It might not be torture for a moment in time as long as the water in the jar can sustain it. The moment it can't anymore the animal will die an agenizing death. Many do, all failure stories swept fanaticaly under the carpet. The goldfish can live up to 30 years, the majority the ones kept in bowls don't make over 3 years. If you make it up to 5 you are a championado in titled of a medle.  It can live 30 years, but hence i loved it to death in 3.. That's far from torture!? Isn't it... 

There are dog breeds that are bred with a beuatifull neet and gorgious small heads, unfortunately to small,  the brain keeps growing and grows to big. Eyes pop out, makes them look even more adorable, the dog suffers from chronic migrane.. Some even go mad from the pain they have to endure and have to put down by the vet. Torture? No man that's also love, loved to death. It's all about love only put in a morbid way. Practicing this is more about loving yourself than loving the animal in question.

All true all recorded facts....

It still happens on every street corner.. The debate about it is as endless, ludicrous and fruitless as the debate between the atheist and the theologist.

Just try to find the logic and morallity behind the fact, why peopel advice against keeping fish in unfiltered and etc etc. bowls. Just give it a thought.

IMHO the morallity and logic behind it is that you put the fish at risk, the day you discover the bowl crashed, the fish are most likely very dead, or sick, or at least in very bad shape. In very small water volumes this can happen overnight, while you are happily snorring and dreaming. About all the compliments you get from friends about your beautifull small fish in small bowls.. It's a very common experience a lot of poeple tried before you. That's the reason why most responsible people advice against it. You shouldn't put the life of any animal under your care at unnecessary risk. It's the opposite of caretaking. We advice against that, no mater the arguments..

And if you want to put that all aside, still think litely of it and find it all exaggerated overconcerned BS.. And still determined to reinvent the wheel and make a rounder one.
Than you just should do that and proof us all wrong. Just remember "It takes more than one swallow to make a summer".


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## Hades (30 Jun 2018)

tiger15 said:


> With the right fish, it's not torturing. Thousands of betta live happily in quart jars and aren't stressed.



Come on now, that statement is too bold to make! 

I was in an LFS today and saw about 30 betta in little jar-like containers and i can honoustly state that none of them looked happy. At all!!
There is a huge difference between "(vegetative) survival" and "living happily".
So, a bold statement like yours needs an equally bold answer:

Let me phrase your words slightly different:

"With the right fish it's really easy to torture whilst denying the abuse. Few fish complain...
Thousands and thousands of betta live a life full of torture and abuse. They pay full price for their ability to breath air and are kept in terrible conditions, just because "they can take it".  
Bored into depression they actually can't be bothered with stress, they just survive, merely exist."

For what it's worth: your bowl is totally unsuited for fish.
For me it's too small for any animal.
Snail, shrimp or fish: no animal deserves to live in something like this imo.


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## Hades (30 Jun 2018)

zozo said:


> But i agree, i know why the caged bird sings.. It sings of freedom..



That's right!
You know, somewhere in history someone "discovered" that some birds sing better when they are in a cage with low light and blinded windows.
Subsequently another "birdlover" had great succes in the popular "Most songs in one hour-Contests" (  yeh, i know) with his birds after blinding them (by scorching the eyelids together). But this blinding was done with, and out of, love! Ofcourse!
They were the original BFF's: Bird Friends Forever!!

So as you can imagine it then became the "norm" and for years they "played" with blind finches. If it works it must be a good idea they probably said as an excuse...
Hey, they still sing, even more, so they must be living the happy life, totally free of stress...
Meh, i beg to differ actually...

Nowadays blinding the birds is illegal but the "song-counting-hobby" still exists. Countless finches *exist* in cages, providing songs on command, to thank their owners for the easy-life.
These finches usually live long lives but that doesn't say a thing about the life-quality or their state of mind...

To be or not to be?
Well....
they are but actually they are not...


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## tiger15 (30 Jun 2018)

A simple question has turned into animal cruelty lectures expanding to bird and dog LOL.  

Experienced fish keepers rarely torture their beloved fish on purpose. Only novice made the mistake of housing more fish than their housing.

Interestingly, animal right activists protest mistreatment of lab mammals, factory grown cow and chicken, but never bother food fish and shrimp in aquaculture, neither do fish hobbyists care.



> I was in an LFS today and saw about 30 betta in little jar-like containers and i can honoustly state that none of them looked happy.


True, many LFSs place betta in deplorable tiny cups for temporary storage, and many novice copy and think it's OK.  But that's not how Betta hobbyists and breeders raise their fish.  They are placed in quart size jars, at the minimum, and get regular water change as breeders know that unhappy fish will not grow or breed for them.  Betta are non-schooling fish, breath air, so do fine in small quarter with stagnant water not much different from their rice paddies habitats.



mort said:


> Fish might not have higher emotions but it could be argued that stress is very similar to a basic fear emotion.


Fear is instinct, not emotion, to avoid getting eaten.  Even lowly insects show fear when cornered.



> The goldfish can live up to 30 years, the majority the ones kept in bowls don't make over 3 years.


Those who keep a goldfish in a bowl is not a hobbyist. Goldfish hobbyists keep them in pond and big tanks.



> Blinding song bird


I hope the blind song bird is not real, just a parable.  Song birds sing because males use song to claim terrotory and females. The more they hear from their competitors, the harder they sing.  Pet song birds will go silent if they don't hear from their competitors.  In China where song bird keeping is big, there are many bird parks where bird lovers and pet birds go to party so they can hear and compete with one another.



> Not keeping shoaling/schooling species in species groups of at least 20-30 (or more) is also stressful,


Yes, keeping schooling fish as a loner can be stressful.  This may be the secondary constraint in keeping nano fish in nano tank, water stability being the primary.  I am used to keeping large cichlid in big tanks.  Nano fish, shrimp and plants are new to me.  But nano is such a trendy thing in the hobby that I don't want to miss the many variety suddenly become available.


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## alto (1 Jul 2018)

Attached file came up blank


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## Hades (1 Jul 2018)

tiger15 said:


> I hope the blind song bird is not real, just a parable.



I'm sorry to break your heart but unfortunately the blinding of these finches was more then real. I'm not the parable kind of guy. 
It was done for quite some time. At first being "mainstream practice" amongst this (in Belgium quite big) fanbase. 

After many complaints, efforts and time it was decided that the blinding was not "animal-friendly" so it became illegal.
Nevertheless it still carried on "secretly" for years before it died a silent death only because the olskool oldtimers had to die off first....
Who is going to rob an 80-year of his beloved/blinded bird?
That is like stealing candy from a kid i guess.


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## tiger15 (1 Jul 2018)

How can blind bird feed if it can’t  see.  Birds have heightened sight sense, but poor in smell and touch.  They can hear well, but no echo location ability to find food.


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## tiger15 (1 Jul 2018)

alto said:


> Attached file came up blank


I am trying to show off my big tanks, one high tech 75 gal with small / medium cichlid, and the other unplanted 125 gal with big cichlid.    My planted shrimp bowl is 3 months old, surprisingly successful with no algae in day one.  My high tech 75 is still battling with minor BBA and difficult plants after a year.


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## MirandaB (1 Jul 2018)

Ah it's one of those bowls....definitely no fish suitable for that.


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## Hades (1 Jul 2018)

tiger15 said:


> How can blind bird feed if it can’t  see.  Birds have heightened sight sense, but poor in smell and touch.  They can hear well, but no echo location ability to find food.



Hmm, you have a point but you have to take in account that these birds were kept in 30cm/30cm30cm boxes all the time. They had only one stick to sit on (the lucky ones had two) and the food and drinks were always at the same spot.

On the other hand birds are quite smart and have a good memory. 
When i was 8 or 9 i had a neighbour who robbed two Eurasian jay-chicks from the nest. (again: ) to raise them by hand. 
One of them didn't respond well during feeding and it looked like it was not going to make it. 
My uncle was a vet and during a visit i managed to let him take a look at the problem jay. He noticed that the bird had very poor eyesight and seemed to be going blind gradually. (possibly caused by genetic reasons, possibly due to unsuited food...) 
So the neighbour decided to euthanize the bird. 
Me and my sisters make a big scene (as only kids can) and finally we won and the bird moved home. We had the time and we had the will so we fed it massive amounts of high grade foods all day long, carried the bird with us all the time and he grew stronger by the day. 
His eyes continued to turn white thou... 
My dad made a big birdhouse (3m by 2m and 2m high), we filled it with sticks and branches so he could work his way up and down without flying and we introduced it before the bird was blind completely. 
In the end i had this bird for 16 years and he was completely blind before his first birthday. But he knew every spot of his cage, he moved along the branches very fast and full of confidence. Finding his food, his water and his branches was no problem but as soon as one of the branches fell down or moved position he was lost of course...
He even used the floor of the cage and never seemed to loose position,he  washed in a bowl of water and jumped on your finger when you touched his feet.
I'll never forget this bird and his brave survival skills!


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## tiger15 (2 Jul 2018)

Interesting story!  Eurasian jay-chicks belongs to the crow family which are among the smartest bird.  Scientists found certain crows can solve problems in experiments faster than primates, some use and make tool, and some engage in purposeless play. I kept a few song finches when I was a kid.  Now I watch birds in my backyard bird feeders, and occasionally go out bird watching.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44654098


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## tiger15 (7 Jul 2018)

Update:  I’ve given up and conclude that no nano fish can fit in my shrimp bowl.  I’ll stick with shrimp and look for a second species that can coexist with my Neo in 7.6 pH, 6kH water.  Do I have chance with Caradina species in alkaline water?


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## zozo (7 Jul 2018)

Hades said:


> On the other hand birds are quite smart and have a good memory.



Beautifull story.. Thank you for sharing.. 

We still know very little of how nature realy works and lots of things go way beyond our imagination.

I guess we've all seen the movie Avatar...  Where the planet Pandora was entirely connected as one communicating symbiotic entity. Mater a fact this part of the story is based uppon a real study from a Canadian biologist who discovered and prooved that tree spieces live in symbiosis with several fungus spieces and create a vast subterranean connective root network. They collect and share natural recourses and share information. Mother trees even recognize and are connected with and share with and care for their kin offspring. Hard to believe (we know so little), completely out of our grasp of understanding, but far from sciencefiction, already there for probably millions of years, it happens bellow our feet, out of our sight and understanding.


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