# Algae issues after a complete strip down and replant!



## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

Around 6-8 weeks ago I stripped my tank down completely and replanted.  Since then I've had what seems to be a multitude of issues;

- horrendous algae growth (assuming it's either BBA or GHA, picture below)
- some decaying leaves on plants
- high nitrate readings only a few days after water changes (previously nitrates were always steady at around 10-20ppm)
- lost 5 Amano shrimp and one Wood shrimp
- lost 2 Albino Cory

240l Fluval Roma
Current levels are 0/0/20
pH 7.6
Temp. 24ºC
Lighting 2 x T8 40w (Aqua Glow and Powerglow) 4 hours daily (on at 10:30 off at 14:30)

Dosing 7.5ml Excel daily at 5am and 20ml Tropica Premium weekly after 50% water change I was dosing TNC complete but believe this may be adding to the nitrate and algae issue as the tank is not heavily planted.

There is new growth on all but a couple of the plants but the algae doesn't take long to start growing on the new growth either.  I also have noticed the algae growing on my lava rock now.

My plan is to do daily 30% water changes and dose the water I put back in with the ferts so I know I'm not overdosing but how are these water changes going to effect the CO2 levels?

Any advice or strategic ways forward gratefully received as I'm at the end of my tether since restarting this tank.  It's become a chore rather than a pleasure and I currently see no light at the end of the tunnel   Advice I have been receiving up till now (not here) has been sporadic and differing in idea's so I really need a direct route to follow.

I'm trying to get somewhere before we leave the country for 10 days in around three weeks 

Many thanks for reading


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## dw1305 (26 Jun 2015)

Hi all,
I think the problem is the "re-set", it may take a while to get any sort of balance again.





scoobiemandan said:


> - horrendous algae growth (assuming it's either BBA or GHA, picture below)


 BBA.





scoobiemandan said:


> tank is not heavily planted........ There is new growth on all but a couple of the plants but the algae doesn't take long to start growing on the new growth either. I also have noticed the algae growing on my lava rock now.


 I think you just need to add some more plants. If you add a floater it has access to aerial levels of CO2, and that would be my initial suggestion. 

You may also find that _Ceratophyllum_ (as a sub-surface floater) helps. 

I've got plenty of _Pistia_ and_ Salvinia "auriculata"_ you can have, and probably some _Ceratophyllum_ and _Limnobium_, but I won't be able to post them until the end of next week.

cheers Darrel


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## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

Thanks for your reply.

How would the floating plants ability to consume CO2 from the air benefit those which grow below it though and/ help with the algae problem?  Also, I have concerns about floating plants as I already have low light in the tank and adding shading isn't going to help I don't think 

I appreciate the response and offer of 'floaters'


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## alto (26 Jun 2015)

Do you have tank setup details posted somewhere?

example 

Also how did you handle the restart? new substrate? or thorough vacuuming of "old" substrate?

Are you able to add in CO2 gas (even if just temporary)? Some plants do better than others with the "liquid" CO2, CO2 gas dissolved into the water column is much more accessible to plants.

Did you add in many new plants, or just trim & replant ... often if these plants have already been struggling, there is compromised leaf structure, then physical damage from all the handling which makes it very easy for algae to establish on leaves


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## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

I don't sorry.

Further to the information I posted above;

- Fluval 306 External
- Fluval U2 internal
- Eheim powerhead

I couldn't name all the plants other than the Vallis, amazon swords, dwarf hairgrass.  However, they are all low light plants low CO2 plants.

I'm unable to introduce CO2 gas at present and didn't have any plans to in the future as I wanted a low tech set up.  I worked out, some time ago, that the natural CO2 level is rather low.  This was based on, I believe, my pH and GH or KH.....I don't know how scientific that is but it's one reason I started using the Excel.

New substrate, changed from gravel to sand (for the Cory's benefit).  I didn't add in any new plants at the time, they were just trimmed and replanted.  They had been doing fine previously although there were signs of staghorn algae prior to the strip down, another reason I wanted to start over.  I've had quite a few new leaves grown since replanting which obviously haven't been handled but they still succumb to the algae.

There's obviously something amiss because of all the issues which just seem to be compounding one another.


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## John S (26 Jun 2015)

scoobiemandan said:


> New substrate, ............



This will certainly contribute to your problems. You've replaced your mature substrate with something that is free of good bacteria. Did the water go cloudy when you first refilled?


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## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

How can a change in substrate and a loss of nirtifying bacteria have any baring on algae growth.....I don't follow?

As for the nitrogen cycle, although I don't want to go off on a tangent here, I left a pop sock of old substrate in the tank for around four weeks after stripping down and refilling.  There was enough nitrifying bacteria in the filters to ensure there was no mini cycle either.  Right from the off I had 0/0/20.  These issue's have only just arisen in the last few weeks although there had been signs of the algae a while before but it's only recently 'taken off'.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Jun 2015)

Your lighting is more than adequate for a low-energy tank and will also accommodate floaters. Floaters will help because they have the aerial advantage; they can harness relatively high concentrations of atmospheric CO2 which combined with access to higher light intensity results in higher levels of photosynthesis. This perpetuates a negative feedback loop resulting in rapid removal of dissolved organic nutrients from the water column and increases plant growth rate...and so on - ultimately this helps to combat algae. 

A large submerged plant mass also has a stabilising effect on the entire tank, for a similar reason, and also - like floaters - it provides shade but also oxygenates the rhizosphere which helps create an environment more conducive to healthy plant growth...and on it goes...

I realise you've just done a reset and put in new substrate, but personally I wouldn't attempt a low-energy tank without using soil as the base substrate, it provides all sorts of synergistic benefits. There is more information in the tutorials section.

Like Darrel said it's about finding the balance, and technically speaking if you're dosing LC it is not a low-energy tank and therefore you will have less wriggle room when it comes to hosting visits from Pete Tong. Having said that when you dose use a pipette and spot treat the algae, it'll kill it and help with control.


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## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

Thanks Troi, makes sense 

I have used some root tabs as I hadn't used a soil substrate this time.  I researched and decided, perhaps wrongly, that it's not entirely required as established plants will take enough nutrients from the water column.


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## alto (26 Jun 2015)

scoobiemandan said:


> established plants will take enough nutrients from the water column.



True enough but you "unestablished" your existing plants with the tank reset - I'm assuming your removed all plants etc to switch out the substrate.
When you return plants to the reset tank, they need to grow need roots (also sounds as if they already had some algae infestation/leaf damage), adjust to new/different water chemistry etc.

If you bring in some new emerse grown plants, they have extra energy reserves stored for this transition.

In this topic it sounds as if you're looking for a quick algae "fix" to help stabilize the tank in your absence ...
1) temporary CO2 - Tropica's System 60 & nano will both help (no idea what pricing might be in your area), you can also run a yeast based CO2 system: this WILL help your plants
2) Twinstar - again this helps with certain types of algae though 1) will give you far more return for your time or $$ invested.
3) blackout - works better with some algaes over others, won't do much to restore your plant health (except indirectly if you manage to knock back the algaes), as Troi mentioned, spot treating the algae (with LC) will also help


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## scoobiemandan (26 Jun 2015)

Good point alto, something I totally overlooked.  I think the addition of some more plants can only help in competing for any available nutrients that may be present.

I think I shall manually rid the tank of algae where I can, do a big water change, get some more plants in and spot dose my daily Excel where I can't manually clean it away.  The vallis I have will almost certainly not live through spot dosing so I shall remove the affected leaves there.  Is there anything else you can think of that may aid this transition?

Out of interest, I wonder what low light, low CO2 plants would be best in this situation.  Preferably high nutrient 'uptakers' and emersed?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (26 Jun 2015)

Hi all, 





scoobiemandan said:


> How would the floating plants ability to consume CO2 from the air benefit those which grow below it though and/ help with the algae problem? Also, I have concerns about floating plants as I already have low light in the tank and adding shading isn't going to help I don't think





Troi said:


> Floaters will help because they have the aerial advantage; they can harness relatively high concentrations of atmospheric CO2 which combined with access to higher light intensity results in higher levels of photosynthesis. This perpetuates a negative feedback loop resulting in rapid removal of dissolved organic nutrients from the water column and increases plant growth rate...and so on - ultimately this helps to combat algae. A large submerged plant mass also has a stabilising effect on the entire tank, for a similar reason, and also - like floaters - it provides shade but also oxygenates the rhizosphere which helps create an environment more conducive to healthy plant growth...and on it goes...





alto said:


> True enough but you "unestablished" your existing plants with the tank reset - I'm assuming your removed all plants etc to switch out the substrate. When you return plants to the reset tank, they need to grow need roots (also sounds as if they already had some algae infestation/leaf damage), adjust to new/different water chemistry etc.


 Yes, for the reasons "Troi" and "Alto"  quote. Personally I'd actually increase the photo-period to at least 6 hours. I've only ever had low tech tanks, but they all have a 12 hour day (the original rationale was that at the the equator you get 12 hours light every day). If I have a lot of light I just end up with a larger plant mass.

We don't know what causes BBA, it seems to occur in a whole range of tanks with very little in common. The "best" tanks I've seen are in a local pet shop where it coats the (filthy looking) gravel substrate like Gorilla fake fur. My suspicion would be that the dissolved organic compounds that Troi alludes to may be implicated, but we really don't know.

I can usually find a small amount in the tanks, nearly always on the exposed filter sponges. I think the reason for this is that the sponges aren't grazed by snails (I have Ramshorn snails and MTS in ~ all the tanks), and presumably if I removed the snails, (and reduced the plant mass?) BBA would appear more widely.





scoobiemandan said:


> Out of interest, I wonder what low light, low CO2 plants would be best in this situation. Preferably high nutrient 'uptakers' and emersed?


_Hygrophila corymbosa _works well. I don't make any attempt to keep it submerged and it soon grows out of the top of the tank. Other than the plants I mentioned earlier I have _Ceratopteris thalictroides _in all the tanks.

cheers Darrel


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## scoobiemandan (27 Jun 2015)

So, I've ordered the following to try and get some more density in the tank;

- Ceratopteris Thalicroides (supposedly takes up a high level of nutrients so will help combat the algae)
- Sagittaria platyphylla (this can be me an indication as to whether or not I'm dosing enough nutrients as I believe the leaves lighten if they are not getting enough)
- Echinodorus bleheri (because I've already got some and it's easy to grow)

Hopefully that will mean there are more plants taking up nutrients, perhaps leaving less for the algae to thrive on.  See if I can get a stepping stone to success this way.

I'll keep you updated of any success or failures.


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## john dory (27 Jun 2015)

nymphaea lotus does well in my lo-tec,as does java moss


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## scoobiemandan (1 Jul 2015)

I've added the new plants (yesterday) so what are peoples thoughts on lighting hours, flourish and ferts dosing?

Should I be dosing carbon and complete ferts daily for now?  Or carbon and trace ferts?  Or just trace ferts?


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## john dory (1 Jul 2015)

Just complete for me.no carbon and 6hours of light.


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## scoobiemandan (1 Jul 2015)

Any other input?


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## john dory (1 Jul 2015)

Sand substrate
33% weekly w/c
Low stock


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## scoobiemandan (2 Jul 2015)

No one else any input regarding dosing etc?

I've been advised elsewhere the following;

_'Mid tech'_

_TNC Carbon at the recommended dose before lights on, every day. _
_TNC Full at the recommended weekly dose divided by 7, before lights on every day._
_Lights on for 7 hours every day. _
_Aerate the tank with an airstone or surface agitation 24x7._
_Plenty of water movement, all plants should sway gently_
_50 % water change every week, after lights out_
_
Or...

Low tech_

_TNC lite weekly dose divided by 7, before lights on, every day_
_Lights on for 7 hours every day in one block, or 5 on, 4 off, 5 on._
_Aerate the tank with an airstone or surface agitation 24x7. _
_Plenty of water movement, all plants should sway gently_
_20 % water change every week, after lights out_


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