# Staghorn (now BBA) Algae issues



## Fisher2007 (13 Dec 2019)

Hi All

Looking for a bit of advice on how to eradicate staghorn algae from my new tank, as it's starting to take hold and I'm getting a bit worried it is going to take over

So - the basics/background;
 - Tanks is approx. 8 weeks old now - see link to thread I set up originally https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/first-proper-scape.58843/
 - Tank itself was custom built and is braceless, optiwhite,1450mm long by 450mm tall by 420mm wide - approx. 220 litres
 - Tank has 2 x glass cover lids (I don't want the evaporation issues I've had with prior tanks).  The lids are 4mm glass and are not tight fitting.  A gap of approx 5mm all the way round plus a big cut out (triangle 100mm x 100mm) in the back corners for the inlets/outlets) and slightly small at the front for feeding
 - Filteration = 2 x Oase Biomaster 350 Thermo's.  Filter media in each is the standard prefilters (washed weekly in tap water), one coarse blue sponge, one orange sponge, a small bag of Eheim matrix (tennis ball size) and 100 grams purigen.  Sponges cleaned in tank water every 2-3 weeks.  Purigen changed/recharged once since the tank was set up. Eheim matrix was from my prior tank which had been running for over 4 years with no signs of staghorn, ever, so was mature.  If the Oase site is right each filter is 1100 lph, so circa 10 x turnover although I appreciate the flow will be reduced some by media and head height
- Heating - via the above set at 22-23 degrees (which I'm confident is correct as I have 2 x thermometers of difference makes)
 - Glass lily pipes either end (one set for each filter).  One of the outtakes (back to the filter) has a surface skimmer.  One lily pipe points towards the front centre of the tank and the other to the front rear of the tank, to create a circular flow
 - CO2 is via a fire extinguisher and CO2 pro SE regulator and bubble counter along with an inline diffuser.  Bubble rate is too fast for me to count.  Drop checker is definitely green before the lights are on, as CO2 comes on 2 hours before the lights and then off 1 hour before lights go off
 - Lighting is a Twinstar 1200 which is now set at 100%.  On full power from 4pm to 10pm (6 hours) and either side 45 minutes of ramp up/down from 0%.  The light I started at 5 hours and 50% (with same ramp either side) and have increased intensity by 10% per week (roughly) since the tank was started
- Aquascape is approx. 30kgs of dark mini landscape rock from Aquarium Gardens along with 1 and a half bags of probidio soil.  Outside of that there is just some ADA sand and some cosmetic slate chips
- Plants - tank was heavily planted from the start (wet start) all plants were from Aquarium Gardens - if I remember right there is buce (red and green), anubias, trident fern, narrow leaf java, limnophilia, ludwigia, rotala green, rotala orange juice, numerous varieties of crypts and Christmas moss.  In the last few days I've also added some hydrocotyle japan to try and get something in there which is growing quick to combat algae.  Ludwigia and rotalal I've trimmed a couple of times as stems hit the surface
 - Twinstar Yotta+ - recently added following advice from Aquarium Gardens to try and help re the algae and the oxygenation levels in the tank (not that I noticed any problems as such).  This has been running about a week
 - Stocking is 40 espei rasbora (tiny young ones), 12 CPD's, 15 blue eye yellow tail rainbows, 30 amano shrimp, 30-40 cherry shrimp, 10 nerite snails and 8 otos.  Amano's and nerites were added after 2 weeks, cherries in two batches at weeks 3 and 4, 20 espei's initially at week 5 and the remaining fish week 6/7.  Feeding is pretty light.  I'm using mainly pellets stuck to the glass at the moment (whole one, one day and half the next).  Shrimp/otos are getting a slice of courgette once a week
 - Water changes I've been religious with, as per instructions from Aquarium Gardens.  50% every other day first 2 weeks, 50% every 3 days third week, 50% every 4 days week four and then moved to weekly water changes since (50% each time)
 - Dosing - TNC carbon 5ml per day and TNC complete 20ml per day (both without fail).  Seachem prime is used for water changes
 - Algae outside of the staghorn is minimal.  I had some diatoms for the first couple of weeks but the amano's and nerite's took care of that.  I'm barely needing to even clean the glass.  Staghorn started to show itself about 2-3 weeks ago, and I manually removed it.  Since then it's been getting worse and I've been spot dosing with the TNC carbon each day over the last week (not dosing any more just the same amount as I'd dose daily as per the above but directed at the algae).  Spot dosing is working a bit but the algae isn't dying as quick as I'd thought or hoped - do I need to use Seachem Flourish instead?  The staghorn started on the trident fern but is now starting to pop up all over the place
 - Testing - I'm going to be honest and say I've done none at all.  Tests kits are notoriously inaccurate and given I've kept fish for years I didn't feel the need.  I've also read on here many don't test or even recommend it

Think that's all, other than to say I'm not new to fish keeping but am new to true planted aquariums and the use of CO2 in planted aquariums.  I've kept fish for 30 years (tropicals, coldwater, ponds and until a few years ago marines for about 10 years (culminating in a 1000 litre SPS reef system)).  Last 4-5 years have been two low tech basic planted systems for ease

If anyone could offer any advice, tips, what to do, I'd really appreciate it.  Some pics attached taken post a water change yesterday evening (so some of the bubbles on the plants you can see is as a result of that, rather than pearling).  Which reminds me, I'm yet to see true pearling, like I see in other tanks - maybe an indication of something?  I do get some though

Cheers


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## Edvet (13 Dec 2019)

Seen these?:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/


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## Fisher2007 (13 Dec 2019)

Edvet said:


> Seen these?:
> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm
> http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/



Thanks.  I'd not read those articles but I have read a few similar ones.  They all seem to say similar things (flow, CO2 and mulm type issues) but I'm not sure I have any of those.  I could try dosing even higher levels of TNC carbon but have been reluctant to until I got a sense check from others, as to whether or not there is something I'm missing in my current set up


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## Kalum (13 Dec 2019)

Have you done a ph profile? Your drop checker is a good indicator (as good as we can reasonably get at home) to overall co2 levels but a ph profile will tell you if you is at its peak at lights on and also if its stable throughout the lighting period. With you running high light this is key so would be my first check


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Dec 2019)

Hi,

First off I'd dim the lights a bit, normally a safe bet with any algae issue... say wind back to 75% until resolved.

Staghorn is a pain in the ass but isn't the worst by any means.  Given your maintenance is pretty rigorous it's unlikely to be due to a dirty tank but a light filter clean never hurt anyone.
If it started in your fern I'd look at two things...first off I'd suggest you give the fern a really good 'shake' during your next water change... microsorum has a habit of building up detritus in the centre.
This goes for all plants really, there is a great video somewhere on here from ceg showing the roughing up of plants to really clean inside plant mass.... it surprising how much crud will come out of plant mass in what looks to be a spotless tank.

Next up I'd look at flow.. diagonal flow patterns tend to be counter intuitive.  In my experience the best circular flow is created by pointing outlets end to end, often with the outlets a good few inches away from front and back glass to ensure the centre of the tank maintains flow... if that makes sense? 

You can double dose carbon  without issue although I wouldnt recommend doing it long term but for a few weeks it's fine.  Even better is diluting the carbon 50/50 with water and apply it directly to the plant during water change when the plant is 'dry', diluting it stops damage to the leaves.
If it's on hardscape, usually staghorn is just plants, you can dose without dilution.

According to Green Aqua staghorn is also prone to appear with high ammonia, might be worth testing at your LFS as ammonia tests can be reasonably reliable.  Like you and many I dont own test kits either.

Keep up the good fight!


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Dec 2019)

Also dont be afraid to cut away badly affected leaves either 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Fisher2007 (13 Dec 2019)

Kalum said:


> Have you done a ph profile? Your drop checker is a good indicator (as good as we can reasonably get at home) to overall co2 levels but a ph profile will tell you if you is at its peak at lights on and also if its stable throughout the lighting period. With you running high light this is key so would be my first check



Thanks.  No, I've not done one yet but thinking it's going to be worthwhile


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## Fisher2007 (13 Dec 2019)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Also dont be afraid to cut away badly affected leaves either
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk



Thanks Iain for both replies.  I'll up the TNC carbon and see if that helps but suspect that is only going to mask the problems and what is causing it won't it?

I'll also look to change the flow

My concern right now is the more I look the more I'm seeing it popping up everywhere.  There's signs of it starting on the redmoor, rotala, buce, anubias, crypts and even the moss!

I've watched the Green Aqua You Tube video about algae and also been on there website.  I did see the bit about ammonia but I'm struggling to see how I'd have ammonia in my tank.  After 8 weeks and with all the livestock looking so healthy

I'm really scratching my head with this one and short of hacking back most of the plants in the tank I'm not sure what else I can do.  I would if I felt confident it would get rid of it but I'm afraid that will just get rid of what is showing before it reappears

Really puzzled

Cheers


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## NOWIS (14 Dec 2019)

Hi I would just dim the lights until the tank has balanced itself. Trim back the worst leaves,
New plants need to adjust to new conditions so the original leaves often get algae but the new growth should be fine. 
I find oxygen or surface movement so Important for new tanks.
Any java fern or bolbitis fern I always trim off all but the youngest of leaves so you get new growth in its new conditions for the start.

THE SCAPE LOOKS GREAT !
What thickness glass was used for your tank.


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## Fisher2007 (14 Dec 2019)

Simon Hellmich said:


> Hi I would just dim the lights until the tank has balanced itself. Trim back the worst leaves,
> New plants need to adjust to new conditions so the original leaves often get algae but the new growth should be fine.
> I find oxygen or surface movement so Important for new tanks.
> Any java fern or bolbitis fern I always trim off all but the youngest of leaves so you get new growth in its new conditions for the start.
> ...



Thanks Simon 

I know from past experiences that if I leave it and do nothing algae will bite and as the plants altogether weren't cheap I really don't want to by having to start over

The glass is 12mm


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## NOWIS (14 Dec 2019)

Ok Lowering light intensity isn’t doing nothing. It will have a great affect of getting rid of most algae or at least slow it down until u can work out the cause.
(12 glass ) thank you


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## Siege (15 Dec 2019)

Hi, 

A few thoughts.

- you have a lot of open area with light sand and your plants are not that demanding. 

- I’d amend the lighting to 6 hours at say 80%. A quick ramp up/down of say 15 minutes at each end in addition. I’m not a fan of a long ramp up/down in a newly established tank.

- add floating plants, they’ll help dapple the light and add plant mass.

- paint liquid carbon onto the hardscape and scrub it with a wireless brush. Remove affect plant leaves. Basically hastle the algae.  Then do a massive water change, in fact 2 on the trot if you like.

- I agree with Ian regarding flow. Circular flow will be much better if possible.

- in the picture the drop checker is the perfect light green colour. Is it this colour at lights on?
- add another 20 amanos. 

- change your food to a small pinch of a good quality granular food. I like dennerle nanoGran. You’ll have tonnes of waste off the stick on food and you donot want to feed the shrimp. This will also cause ammonia fluctuations which will help the algae.

Hope all that gives you food for thought! 


S.


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## Fisher2007 (15 Dec 2019)

Siege said:


> Hi,
> 
> A few thoughts.
> 
> ...



Thanka Siege - appreciate the reply.  I'll follow some (if not all) of that

Re the drop checker, it's a touch darker at lights on.  Should I just turn the CO2 on a little earlier to get it to that point?

What difference does a short/long ramp up/down of the light (good and bad)?

I'll need some more hose for moving the lily pipes.  Expect an order!


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## Siege (15 Dec 2019)

No problem.

Yes I would start the co2 earlier. The 1st part of the ‘day’ is the most important for the plants.
Experiment with timing and turning up, especially once you have altered the flow. Move the drop checker around also. Your tank is very long.

Check out Dennis wong on you tube, his 2 videos on co2 are very good.






Imo the only reason for the light ramp up/down is to not spook the fish when lights go on/off. A short period is perfect for this.

Any longer and the prolonged low light is too low for the plants to use but algae being a simpler cell thing will make use of any low light.
When your tank is more mature and stable experiment with the lights however you like. 

S.


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## Fisher2007 (20 Jan 2020)

Morning all

So I wasn't sure whether to start a new thread for this or link back to this one, but needless to say I've started with the latter

Following the above I'm pleased to say my staghorn issue had gone.  In truth I'm not sure why, possibly something I've changed or possibly just the tank being new and running it's course to begin with.  From my first post though I did change a couple of things based on the advice I received - being I added to twinstar yotta, reduced lighting intensity from 100% to 80%, changed the ramp up/down from 45 mins either end of the lighting cycle to just 15 mins, added some hydrocotyle tripartite japan (as something fast growing) and added another 20 amano shrimp

So staghorn gone = wonderful!  However it's now BBA time = no good!  Now the BBA was lurking when I posted the first post in this thread but only very minimal.  More recently though it's increasing and appearing in more and more places.  Those affected the most are the slower growing stuff (anubias, buce, trident) but I am getting a little on the faster growing stuff too (ludwigia and lymnophia)

To help combat it I continue to dose TNC carbon but rather than just adding to the water I now spot dose it and daily do a different area.  This works in the respect that it clearly knocks the BBA back or kills that area (it turns red and then the shrimp eat it) but it's seems to be controlling it rather than eradicating it.  As soons as I stop the spot dosing it comes back even though I dose the water column still daily

I've done lots of reading on BBA and there seems to be common themes but in truth I'm not sure if my tank is suffering from those issues - low flow or dead spots, poor or fluctuating CO2, high organics (I continue to be religious with my water changes and maintenance), don't overfeed (in fact I think I do the opposite) and have a fairly hefty clean up crew

Any advice or help greatly appreciated. Right now I'm considering getting a juvenile SAE to try and combat it although I've heard mixed things about them and cherry shrimp, particularly the babies.  Right now I have tonnes of them (the cherries have gone mad) and don't want to sacrifice them if I can help it

Cheers


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