# Kinabalu (60 x 40 x 40)



## Wookii (7 Oct 2020)

So, a little change of plan, as SWMBO has decided she'd like to move house now, my intended 150 x 45 x 45 tank has been dust sheeted.

The current tank in my sons room (journal Roots) has gotten to the point where the plants are choking it despite regular trimming, and it desperately needs rescaping. Plus the bedroom location is a PITA, essentially isolating me from the rest of the family for hours at time during maintenance or general viewing of the tank. So as part of the rescape, I've got a new tank, and plumbed it in downstairs in our kitchen/diner instead.

Combining the fact that the current tank is very heavily grown in, plus the fact I was also growing on a load of buce and anubias cuttings in another tank ready for the 150cm, I have a shed load of epiphytes to use up. I've also been gradually acquiring a good stock of second hand Seiryu stone that's popped up on the classified here, and on eBay, also in preparation for the 1500 - so I figured I've have a stab at a rock heavy/mountain style scape.

The rock scape design I've settled on was partially inspired by the look of a jungle covered mountain - hence what I've chosen to name it. I have never been to  Malaysia myself, but my wife has actually climbed Kinabalu - it is only a loose inspiration, I'm certainly not going for a diorama look so the finished scape will probably look nothing like the real mountain:







I have to apologise that I got so quickly carried away with trying to create the scape, I completely forgot to take the traditional empty tank photo     (i'll add a tank and stand photo later tonight)

Added:





Anyway, kit list is as follows:

- APS 60 x 40 x 40 (96 litre)
- Aquaone Nappa Oak Stand
- Oase Biomaster 600 Thermo
- Twinstar Nano
- Chihiros WRGB II 60 (though Twinstar 600S used for initial set-up)
- JBL CristalProfi inlet/ outlet with RFG head and shrimp guard
- CO2 ART Pro Regulator
- JBL Proflora In-Line CO2 diffuser
- Custom 20" CO2 reactor
- EcoTech Versa Doser (TBD)
- Vyair RO-200 + 30 litre holding tanks (automated water charges via in-tank overflow)

I'm not 100% decided on exactly which plants I will use, but this is what I have available from the existing tank, plus some purchases order that I definitely want:

Rocks and wood:
- Anubias Nana Petite + Bonsai
- Anubias Pangolino
- Bucephalandra (Lamandau Mini Red / Lamandau Purple / Red / Mini Theia / Mini Coin / Mini Catherine / Mini Biblis / Catherine / Biblis / Crocodile King / + some other unknown species)
- Dwarf Bolbotis Heudelotii (courtesy of @dw1305)
- Mini Christmas Moss
- Hygropjila Pinnatifida
- Fissidens Fontanus
- Cameroon Moss

Mid-tier:
- Eleocharis Acicularis Mini
- Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis
- Hydrocotyle Verticillata
- Staurogyne Repens
- Alternonthera Reinechii pink/mini
- Cryptocoryne Petchii
- Cardamine Lyrata
- Myriophyllum Guyana
- Blyxa Japonica

Top plateau:
- Rotala Orange Juice
- Rotala Ammania Bonsai
- Rotala Hong Kong
- Pogostemon Erctus
- Ludwigia Palustris
- Microsorum Pteropus Trident

+ some Amazon frog bit floaters to start

. . . and onto the scaping . . .


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## Wookii (7 Oct 2020)

The aquarium will be viewed from both the front and one end, so I wanted to maximise the visual perception of height in the tank so planned on an initial thin sand layer at the front and side, a then rather than have a solid straight rock wall, create some layering and transition - so essentially a terraced area midway with lower level plants transitioning to a top plateau that will house higher step plants. I then wanted some over hanging branching wood and root structures in an attempt to tray and make it look a little more natural.

I made a cardboard 'scaping' box, to try out some ideas, and settled loosely on this kind of design:





I have changed my mind several times on rock and wood positions, and also had to get some more smaller pieces of Seiryu stone, hand picked courtesy of @Seige, in order to get the bottom run of rocks to look anything like right.

I freely admit, despite considering myself relatively 'artistic' when it comes to design etc, this scaping 'lark' isn't something that comes naturally to me at all. It's also somewhat frustrated by the fact that whenever I deconstruct a draft design, I never seem to be able to get it to go back the way it was when I rebuild it. Despite my best attempts to make it look 'natural', it still looks entirely man-made, but I figure most of it will end up covered by plants so I'm not too concerned.

Anyway, transferred to the aquarium:


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## Spamamos (7 Oct 2020)

Love the inspiration!

Can't wait to see it planted.


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## Jayefc1 (7 Oct 2020)

Looks good @Wookii 
Hardscape frustration 😤 should be a recognised medical condition lol I think we all suffer from it and as perfectionist its hard and why can we not recreat the scape from the box to the tank there the same size same rock and even with a copus amount of pics and even numbered rocks they won't fit in how they where almost like a scape fairy comes and changes every thing around 😀 
I think what you have in the glass looks better than the one in the box great hight and depth in the stones then added interest from the wood cant wait to see it planted 👍


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## Wookii (7 Oct 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks good @Wookii
> Hardscape frustration 😤 should be a recognised medical condition lol I think we all suffer from it and as perfectionist its hard and why can we not recreat the scape from the box to the tank there the same size same rock and even with a copus amount of pics and even numbered rocks they won't fit in how they where almost like a scape fairy comes and changes every thing around 😀
> I think what you have in the glass looks better than the one in the box great hight and depth in the stones then added interest from the wood cant wait to see it planted 👍



Thanks man - it’s reassuring to read it’s not just me that’s afflicted with these magically morphing rocks.

I’ll chalk up my inability to ever fit the same two stones together the exact same way more than once, up to scaping fairies then, rather than my own incompetence 

Anyway, I managed to finally get them in an acceptable position and locked them together with cigarette filters and superglue, so fairies be damned!!

I’ve pulled the main pieces of wood out and put them in water to soak, and added some detail ‘twigs’ to the rocks in an attempt to make them look a little less ‘manufactured’.

Plants will be placed to cover the starting points of those to make them more seamless, and I have a box of smaller stones which I’ll add loose onto the sand once that’s in place.













Tomorrow I tear down the old tank, and I should also (hopefully) be in receipt of some plant deliveries form AG and @Roland, so I can start planting tomorrow and Friday hopefully.


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## Jayefc1 (7 Oct 2020)

Wookii said:


> I’ll chalk up my inability to ever fit the same two stones together the exact same way more than once, up to scaping fairies then, rather than my own incompetence


Oh yeah every time I do a scape they are there looking over my shoulder waiting to change things 





Wookii said:


> Anyway, I managed to finally get them in an acceptable position and locked them together with cigarette filters and superglue, so fairies be damned


That is a sure fire way to stop them 





Wookii said:


> added some detail ‘twigs’ to the rocks in an attempt to make them look a little less ‘manufactured’.


Really like these they look natural


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## Wookii (8 Oct 2020)

Took the old tank down today - long time since I’ve had to do this - what a ball ache deconstructing a scape is!

It was really over grown, from this:





To this:





But I didn’t really appreciate just how much some of the plants had grown








This is the plant mass I’m left with - technically far far more than I need (the tub is just over 2ft long) - and doesn’t include some large crypts and a large piece of Schismatoglottis prietoi which are in with the fish!:


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## dw1305 (9 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





Wookii said:


> It was really over grown...... I didn’t really appreciate just how much some of the plants had grown


That is a very informative set of photos, it shows just how quickly even "slow" grower like Aroids, Fern and Mosses grow in optimal conditions.

What was the date of the first set-up photo?

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (9 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is a very informative set of photos, it shows just how quickly even "slow" grower like Aroids, Fern and Mosses grow in optimal conditions.
> 
> What was the date of the first set-up photo?
> 
> cheers Darrel



Cheers Darrel - everything was planted on Boxing Day, so about 9 months growth - though also those Buce and Anubias pictured were also trimmed to seed the growing on tank for the previously intended 1500, which is here:





Yeah, the Christmas moss I had in the tank, originally from @Siege was a real fast grower. I’d literally rip it off back down to the brown dead bits attached to the wood, and within two weeks it’d be fully greened again.

I plan to use a fair bit less of it in this tank so it’s easier to manage.


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## Wookii (9 Oct 2020)

Anyway - on with planting!


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## PARAGUAY (9 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is a very informative set of photos, it shows just how quickly even "slow" grower like Aroids, Fern and Mosses grow in optimal conditions.
> 
> What was the date of the first set-up photo?
> 
> cheers Darrel


Found that myself sometimes slow growers really take off


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## dw1305 (9 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





Wookii said:


> everything was planted on Boxing Day, so about 9 months growth - though also those Buce and Anubias pictured were also trimmed to seed the growing on tank for the previously intended 1500, which is here





Wookii said:


> Yeah, the Christmas miss I had in the tank, originally from @Siege was a real fast grower.





PARAGUAY said:


> Found that myself sometimes slow growers really take off


If you want a long term set-up it shows exactly what these plants can manage in a relatively short time period.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison (9 Oct 2020)

Wookii said:


> Took the old tank down today - long time since I’ve had to do this - what a ball ache deconstructing a scape is!
> 
> It was really over grown, from this:
> 
> ...


Very nice.


dw1305 said:


> it shows just how quickly even "slow" grower like Aroids, Fern and Mosses grow in optimal conditions.


That's been my experience too.


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## Wookii (9 Oct 2020)

Finally planted. Started at 8am, and only broke briefly for lunch and to cook dinner. Finished at 11pm - either I make things for too difficult for myself, or I’m really slow 😅

Haven’t fitted the filter or CO2 yet, that’s tomorrow’s job - along with tidying up the sanding and adding some ‘detail’ stones - but the skimmer is running and providing surprisingly good circulation.


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## Tim Harrison (9 Oct 2020)

Very nice, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon...👍


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## Wookii (9 Oct 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Very nice, The Hanging Gardens of Babylon...👍



Lol thanks Tim . . . hopefully it’ll look a little less man made than that once it’s grown in!


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## Tim Harrison (9 Oct 2020)

Wookii said:


> Lol thanks Tim . . . hopefully it’ll look a little less man made than that once it’s grown in!


No that's a good thing, trust me it looks great


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## Jayefc1 (10 Oct 2020)

It does look great @Wookii and very well balanced from both the viewing angle really nice


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## Wookii (10 Oct 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> No that's a good thing, trust me it looks great





Jayefc1 said:


> It does look great @Wookii and very well balanced from both the viewing angle really nice



Thanks guys - I’m about 80% happy with it I think.

It is a little annoying how the perspective changes once the water goes in - I’m not experienced enough to be able to visualise that upfront and account for it in the design.

I think some of the hard lines I’ve inadvertently created whilst worry about retaining the soil and minimising loss of planting space, should gradually soften once the plants grow in.

I remember feeling initially a little disappointed with the last tank when I set it up, but it grew into a beautiful tank once the plants got chance to do their thing.

My main objective was a) to house all the Buce I have, which I’ve managed to do apart from two big ones, and b) create a lot more free swimming space for the fish, which I’ve also done - they’ll probably crap themselves when I put them in it - it’ll be like moving from the jungle to the suburbs!


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## Wookii (11 Oct 2020)

I know test kits aren’t thought of very highly on this forum, but I was going to do the first 50% water change last night, 24 hours after set up, and thought I’d do an ammonia test purely for academic purposes to see if the Tropica soil powder was leaching much.

I’ve seen some people mention that Tropica soil doesn’t give out much ammonia, but if anyone was in any doubt:





I know test kits like this are in accurate, so let’s forget about trying to name the exact ppm, and just call it “a lot”. Needless to say, my 50% water change became 100%


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## Tim Harrison (11 Oct 2020)

It'll give you a rough ball park figure, either way I think it's pretty safe to say you have something of an ammonia spike 
It's about the only time I use a test kit too. But, I don't introduce critters for several weeks so I'm fairly confident the tank has cycled enough anyway


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## Deano3 (11 Oct 2020)

Looks great @Wookii love the rock work and the planting, very heavily planted and you have obviously took a great amount of time and effort that has payed off.

And wow that is a lot of ammonia 

Looking forward to seeing updates
Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (11 Oct 2020)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> and thought I’d do an ammonia test purely for academic purposes to see if the Tropica soil powder was leaching much. ..........and just call it “a lot”


"Lots", definitely not much doubt about that.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (11 Oct 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> It'll give you a rough ball park figure, either way I think it's pretty safe to say you have something of an ammonia spike
> It's about the only time I use a test kit too. But, I don't introduce critters for several weeks so I'm fairly confident the tank has cycled enough anyway



Yeah, I have my critters housed in a temporary storage box with a HOB filter and the hardscape and crypts from the old tank.







It’s not ideal so I’m keen to get them moved to the new tank ASAP, but won’t consider it until the ammonia is gone.

The new tank does have a mature filter (9 months old) on it, but it presumably just can’t cope with the sudden inrush of ammonia from the soil.


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## Wookii (11 Oct 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Looks great @Wookii love the rock work and the planting, very heavily planted and you have obviously took a great amount of time and effort that has payed off.
> 
> And wow that is a lot of ammonia
> 
> ...



Thanks for kind words Dean, much appreciated.


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## Wookii (11 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, "Lots" definitely not much doubt about that.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I’m hoping the only reason the levels  were so high was because it was the soils  first contact with water Darrel. I don’t know how the stuff is made - do they soak it in ammonia and other nutrients before drying it?

I’ve got no live stock in there currently, but I assume ammonia at those levels could melt some of the plants?

I’ll see what the levels look like before tonight’s water change.


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## dw1305 (11 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





Wookii said:


> I don’t know how the stuff is made - do they soak it in ammonia and other nutrients before drying it?


That would be my guess, but I don't know. 

The clay based substrate will have a cation exchange capacity (CEC), but  <"Ion Exchange isn't entirely straightforward">, because it depends on both the valency of the ions (that are both bound and in solution) and <"their concentration">.

cheers Darrel


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## Ady34 (5 Nov 2020)

Great journal so far, love how densely you planted and your style of write up made me chuckle in more than one occasion   
Any more updates?
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Wookii (5 Nov 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Great journal so far, love how densely you planted and your style of write up made me chuckle in more than one occasion
> Any more updates?
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Thanks for the kind words Ady - much appreciated. I am overdue some updates - I’ve just been so busy with work etc. The first few weeks went well, this is the tank after a week - the pinnatifida has done really well, I’ve never kept this plant before and it really is beautiful!:

Kids eye view!:





Close up of the Pinna:





I also added some floaters to aid the transition (courtesy of @dw1305), they look good though instantly remind me of the tripods from War Of The Worlds:


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## Wookii (5 Nov 2020)

I also bought a very extravagant early Christmas present . . . . from me . . . to me! 😆





. . . and I finally got around to installing the RO unit I’d already bought to service the 1500mm tank:





Gotta love push fit water pipework- not a leaking solder joint in sight! 😅


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## Nick potts (5 Nov 2020)

Looking very nice indeed, and some nice gadgets 

I really loved the look of the overgrown low tech setup.


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## Wookii (5 Nov 2020)

After setting up this scape, I still had masses of plants still left over, and so decided to set my sons tank back up as a low tech. I managed to use up every last bit of remaining plant, including all the left over anubias, buce and crypts. I won’t set up a separate journal for it, but will include some pics here (please excuse the image quality - this old tank glass is so reflective):









_

_


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## Wookii (5 Nov 2020)

Nick potts said:


> Looking very nice indeed, and some nice gadgets
> 
> I really loved the look of the overgrown low tech setup.



Thanks Nick - the old 'Roots' tank was actually a high tech, I think that's why everything had grown so much - even the slow growing epiphytes. CO2 is like steroids for aquatic plants.


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## hypnogogia (5 Nov 2020)

Wookii said:


> I also bought a very extravagant early Christmas present . . . . from me . . . to me!


That's one cool dosing pump!


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## Wookii (5 Nov 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> That's one cool dosing pump!


 It is a great bit of kit. I would probably have been fine with another Jebao unit, but the convenience of the web app and ease of programming, the accuracy of the unit (to fractions of a ml) and the industrial build which means they're strong and reliable enough to be used for large volume automated water changes, all persuaded me.

Along with the TP-link Tapo plugs I use, I can now control almost everything on the tank from my phone.


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Great journal so far, love how densely you planted and your style of write up made me chuckle in more than one occasion
> Any more updates?
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


Here’s an up to date FTS Ady, taken last night. It’s a ‘warts and all’ shot as the mini snail babies are running amok and there’s also some algae in places mainly because I’ve been yo-going around with the CO2 after it took the livestock some time to acquire a taste for it, and they spent some time supping at the surface.

I also managed to mess up my fert calculations and ended up with 10x the KH2PO4 and KNO3 in my dosing solutions  - a classic case of doing too much at once and doing none of them well!

Thankfully @Zeus. came to the rescue with his magic calculator so I’ve now redone all three dosing fluids with the correct proportions of ferts

Long and short of it I’ve not seen much growth in the last couple of weeks, and had some algae appear as a result. The last few days though everything has settled, so I think I’m back on track.





A couple of close ups of some of the inhabitants, I was determine to get some of these cute little guys right from the start. They stay on the deck like proper Cory’s, not like the pretender Pymgies that like to play “impersonate the tetra” in mid-water, that I had previously (and now reside in the sons low tech, where they are much happier in the gloom):





Whilst in the LFS I also couldn’t resist getting some of these - the colours are stunning, with the neon green and the blue iridescence along their back. Their behaviour is great too:


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## lilirose (6 Nov 2020)

What are those lovely iridescent fish?


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

lilirose said:


> What are those lovely iridescent fish?



https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/microdevario-kubotai/

I’ve not even started them on the BBS yet - hatching some now - they should colour up even more then!


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## SRP3006 (6 Nov 2020)

Really like this scape, love the microdevario, I've thought about stocking my tank with a large shoal, however the price is a little off putting.


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Really like this scape, love the microdevario, I've thought about stocking my tank with a large shoal, however the price is a little off putting.



To be fair they in my LFS, which is a Maidenhead Aquatics, they were priced the same the same as the general tetra species.

They don’t tend to shoal up particularly, and hang in a much looser formation than the tetras and Chilli’s. There seem to be a few dominant males in my group, that chase off some of the others, and also chase some of the Embers - presumably trying to establish territory - nothing super aggressive, just a bit of muscle flexing like a youth in a nightclub!


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

So I took my son to the local Pets@Home today to pick some fish for his new low tech (posted above). As it’s walking distance I figured we’d be well within the remit of the current military curfew.

He’s always wanted Guppies - you can imagine - fish in Haribo colours!

I succumbed to a middle ground agreement of Endlers.

I wasn’t quite prepared for exactly how awesome they would look in a planted tank! This is a quick pick of one, the others were so damn fast they’ll have to wait for another day when they’re more inclined to pose for a photo!


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

The funniest thing on the visit to Pets@Home was when the 20-something member of staff shuffled up and asked disinterestedly which fish we wanted.

I asked for eight males Endlers.

His response: “Oh, I’m not sure we are able to tell the males from the females”

To which my 8 year old son instantly jumped in: “The males are the ones with colours, the females are the ones without” . . . I was tempted to get him a job application form on the way out . . .


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## SRP3006 (6 Nov 2020)

Wookii said:


> To be fair they in my LFS, which is a Maidenhead Aquatics, they were priced the same the same as the general tetra species.
> 
> They don’t tend to shoal up particularly, and hang in a much looser formation than the tetras and Chilli’s. There seem to be a few dominant males in my group, that chase off some of the others, and also chase some of the Embers - presumably trying to establish territory - nothing super aggressive, just a bit of muscle flexing like a youth in a nightclub!


Something I need to look into further then, as they were £7.50 each which definitely isn't standard tetra prices! I think they did 3 for £21 which would mean a divorce and a remortgage to add the 30+ I would like......


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## Wookii (6 Nov 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Something I need to look into further then, as they were £7.50 each which definitely isn't standard tetra prices! I think they did 3 for £21 which would mean a divorce and a remortgage to add the 30+ I would like......



You definitely shouldn’t be paying that much. Even getting them delivered from Kesgrave would be would only be £4.72 each for 36:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274335468325


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## Wookii (28 Nov 2020)

So I’m probabaly overdue an update here. If been a mixed run in on this tank. I’ve had some stunted growth on the stems at the top left. I think the cause was having the skimmer there and it’s output hitting the filter inlet and creating a dead area low in CO2 around the stems.

So I basically decided to remove the skimmer, rip them out and replant some new ones from @Roland who grows plants of amazing quality.

To aid in circulation, and get the water flowing around the front of the tank properly I’ve also added an AI Nero 3 - amazing output from such a small form factor, and awesome controllability via the app.








Sadly I’ve lost several fish due to them jumping out the back of the tank. I didnt know it was happening until I went around the back (where I store the dosing containers) and saw their corpses. Quite distressing and something I consider a personal failure, so I have ordered some perspex cut to shape, to mount as a jump screen on the rear. Until then an acme-polystyrene screen will have to suffice. The idea being, if they jump, they’ll bounce off it back into the tank, rather than down the back.





A final shot showing some of the Shrimp jelly food I made, that apparently the Otos (look at their big round bellies!) and snails also love!


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## Roland (28 Nov 2020)

Amazing tank mate


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## Wookii (28 Nov 2020)

Roland said:


> Amazing tank mate



Thanks mate - I’ll try not to kill the Orange Juice this time! Also love that Potamogeton gayi you sent me, a really nice delicate stem - I’m going to try and run it all the way along the back, as it looks great as a backdrop fluttering in the flow.


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## DeepMetropolis (28 Nov 2020)

Looks great.. that are a lot of plants for a tank of that size


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## Jayefc1 (28 Nov 2020)

Stunning scape wookie really nice could the hope the stems pick up and you get the effect your after is this the vivid 2 your running on it mate or the wrgb


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## Wookii (28 Nov 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Looks great.. that are a lot of plants for a tank of that size



Thanks mate - yeah I should probably have less variety for a better aesthetic, but buying different plants gets a bit addictive! 😆


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## Wookii (28 Nov 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Stunning scape wookie really nice could the hope the stems pick up and you get the effect your after is this the vivid 2 your running on it mate or the wrgb



Thanks mate - yes, I switched to one of my Vivid II’s to give me easier access for maintenance. I managed to hang it using some old aluminium T-slot channel bolted to the top of an adjacent storage unit.





I used a light meter though to try and keep the output the same as the WGB II, so the Vivid is running at 50% on red and blue, and 40% on green.


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## Jayefc1 (28 Nov 2020)

Looks good mate mine are hung from the ceiling on suspension kits


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## Wookii (28 Nov 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks good mate mine are hung from the ceiling on suspension kits



Yeah SWMBO wouldn’t have gone for ceiling adornment, so I had to improvise!


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## DeepMetropolis (29 Nov 2020)

Wookii said:


> Thanks mate - yeah I should probably have less variety for a better aesthetic, but buying different plants gets a bit addictive!


I have the same thing.. I just love the look of almost all plants.. It's hard to keep it all. I'm planning for a new scape and it's pretty hard to make choices as I'm pretty limited in size and shape.. Here in the Netherlands you can find almost every type of plant available in the trade.. 

Greetz, Luciën.


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## Wookii (6 Dec 2020)

My Perspex order turned up this week, so I could finally get rid of the acme- polystyrene anti-jump screen:




Used some of the Perspex cover support clips, and glued them in place:




The final fitted screen is excellent, and almost completely invisible so doesn’t detract from the rimless tank look:





So now hopefully any Kamikaze fish will bounce off it back into the tank.


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## Wookii (6 Dec 2020)

The stems at the back are finally growing well and are due a trim:








The Tripartita Mini is a really nice little delicate plant, but it’s growing like a weed, and starting to get really invasive:


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## Kezzab (6 Dec 2020)

Wookii said:


> So now hopefully any Kamikaze fish will bounce off it back into the tank.


If they really have a death wish will they not just go over the front now?


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## Wookii (6 Dec 2020)

Kezzab said:


> If they really have a death wish will they not just go over the front now?



I’ve not lost any over the front or sides, only the rear - I assume it’s a startle response to people walking past, or room lights coming on so they jump in the opposite direction in the tanks current placement.


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## Wookii (14 Dec 2020)

So I’ve hacked back the Tripartita Mini quite hard, and added in a few extra Buce, some more Trident fern and Bolbitis courtesy of @Geoffrey Rea via @howanic.

I’ve also added a new Cryptocoryne Albida ‘Brown’ on the far left to replace the Tonina that was gradually fading away - you can’t see it yet as the Aquasabi plant size was disappointingly small (unusual for them!).

Everything really seems to be shifting into 5th gear now and growing a lot better. I lost a lot of Buce leaves at the start, I suspect due to the high ammonia levels from the Tropica soil, but now they’re all putting out lots of new leaves and shoots.





I added some Coral Moss (Riccardia Chamedryfolia) in place of the removed Tripartita in various places around the tank, and it looks really effective - I’m hoping it might spread over the rocks a little more eventually:
​


The view from the end of that is really getting quite nice too:





I should probabaly mention that I’ve had loads of issues with the water on this tank. I set out to use RO, to try and create a soft water environment for the fish, but the rocks appear to be leaching what must amount to a huge amount of CaCO3.

I’m now at the stage of using pure RO water for water changes, 25% daily, and only adding the standard EI dose of MgSO4 (no additional Calcium or Carbonate remineralisation sources). Despite that I can’t get below a GH of 9, and a KH of 6, which is really disappointing.

School boy lesson learned anyway - next time, no  Seiryu stone!!


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## CooKieS (15 Dec 2020)

I absolutely love all the textures and plants in this tank! Well done! And nice diy on that plexi too


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## Wookii (15 Dec 2020)

CooKieS said:


> I absolutely love all the textures and plants in this tank! Well done! And nice diy on that plexi too



Thanks man - really appreciate that.


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## Wookii (29 Jan 2021)

A bit overdue a trim!






Its amazing how quickly nature takes over!


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## Paul Kettless (29 Jan 2021)

Incredible plant growth, its almost like you have no rocks or wood in there now 🤣


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## Wookii (29 Jan 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Incredible plant growth, its almost like you have no rocks or wood in there now 🤣



Tell me about it! All the stressing and and fine detail work over the rockery and now I can’t see the bloody thing 😂


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## Wookii (29 Jan 2021)

. . . and peace has been restored to the Galaxy . . .


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## Wookii (29 Jan 2021)

Quite a lot of decent cuttings, I figure given the current plant shortages in shops, a UKAPS member might appreciate these . . .


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## SRP3006 (29 Jan 2021)

Amazing growth, healthy looking tank.


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## Wookii (29 Jan 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> Amazing growth, healthy looking tank.



Thanks Sam.

I really like, in the shot from the end, how the little umbrellas of Hydrocotyle verticillata have just appeared out of nowhere.

I planted some in there on the far right of that shot, when the tank was set up, but they seemed to die off and disappeared.

Now, months later they’ve reappeared with a vengeance.


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## SRP3006 (29 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> Hydrocotyle verticillata



Never grown it, but it always looked really good in AGs 900 aquascape. 
Those embers really pop under the vivid.


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## not called Bob (31 Jan 2021)

do you rate the Nero? I have stripped a mp40 down and looks like both wet and dryside bearings are a bit suspect, so probably cheaper to get one of these 
is it on a random ramp up or do you run it at a constant speed, post hair cut tank looks good btw


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## Wookii (31 Jan 2021)

not called Bob said:


> do you rate the Nero? I have stripped a mp40 down and looks like both wet and dryside bearings are a bit suspect, so probably cheaper to get one of these
> is it on a random ramp up or do you run it at a constant speed, post hair cut tank looks good btw



The Nero 3 is great @not called Bob - it’s impossibly tiny for the huge amount of water it can push through. Plus it’s got a really wide outflow cone, so although it’s moving a lot of water, you don’t get that narrow high velocity jet that you get with other stream pumps.

I’m also a sucker for app control, and the set up of the Nero is really flexible. As you say you can change output at different times of the day etc. I haven’t experimented a great deal, but I have it on a slow pulse mode between 30% and 40% which give a slight ebb and flow variation to plant movement, but there are lots of other set up options.

One thing I would say though, if you have shrimp, budget for an after market guard. The Nero 3 does come with one, which is enough to stop shrimp getting through to the impellers, but the suction through the guard is so powerful that if they land on it, they get sucked into it like the Alien at the airlock (Aliens movie reference!).

This is the only decent one I could find - which isn’t cheap once you add shipping and customs charges etc:









						3D Printed AI Nero 3 Cone Anemone Guard ABS Aqua Illumination Nero3  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3D Printed AI Nero 3 Cone Anemone Guard ABS Aqua Illumination Nero3 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.



					www.ebay.co.uk
				




It works very well and lessens the suction issue at the guard. Hopefully now the Nero 3 has been out a while some UK 3D printing folks will sort some designs out.


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## not called Bob (31 Jan 2021)

Oh that's nice to know. I have a few friends with printers and never seen to know what to print, so maybe I can find a shape file and give them a task. 

The mp40 used to be run on random, great for kicking up the muck. But possibly a little strong for the freshwater setup compared to the marines, that loved good spin cycle


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## Wookii (31 Jan 2021)

not called Bob said:


> Oh that's nice to know. I have a few friends with printers and never seen to know what to print, so maybe I can find a shape file and give them a task.
> 
> The mp40 used to be run on random, great for kicking up the muck. But possibly a little strong for the freshwater setup compared to the marines, that loved good spin cycle



Yeah I did quite a bit of research on them. I did consider the MP10, as I liked the fact that all the wires were on the outside of the tank.

But I liked the wider output cone of the Nero, it’s smaller size, the fact that it’s output goes down to a much gentler minimum point (i.e. it’s lowest setting is almost zero flow), and the fact that it can be angled +/- 15 degrees (slightly more in practice with the guard on).


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## not called Bob (31 Jan 2021)

The only downside with the motor outside is if not perfectly lined up, you get some very noisy vibrations, handy to stop heat and keep things clean though and yes it's either on or off at its lowest setting, fine if balanced as you don't hear the ramping but if knocked it's very apparent


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## terrytherat (11 Feb 2021)

Wookii said:


> Quite a lot of decent cuttings, I figure given the current plant shortages in shops, a UKAPS member might appreciate these . . .
> 
> View attachment 161495


that was a really kind gesture
your tank is looking great


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## Wookii (11 Feb 2021)

terrytherat said:


> that was a really kind gesture
> your tank is looking great



Thanks - I always feel a bit guilty when I put healthy plants in the bin given how much they cost in the shops. So if someone can benefit instead, and the forum benefits from a donation, then everyone wins I guess.


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## not called Bob (11 Feb 2021)

Know what you mean, it's after I have added stems and floaters to the flower bed, that I'm all ops should have posted to here or the village blog. Though nothing I have is anything special and I definitely have snails and shrimps to provide hitchhikers


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## Paul Kettless (11 Feb 2021)

Im curious by the positioning of your inlet and outlet in this tank, as it does'nt seem to have an easy path in.  I'm assuming its picking up all the fine particles through the rocks, wood and background plants just fine, hence why you have kept it that way.

As you know I opted for the Nero 3 also after talking with you, and I'm trying to work out the best positions for the inlet, outlet and the nero in a triangular composition from left back to right front.  I counted out the back left position right from the start as I assumed that the background plants would restrict the flow, and also get battered by the outflow. Your tank seems to defy that thought...


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## Wookii (12 Feb 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Im curious by the positioning of your inlet and outlet in this tank, as it does'nt seem to have an easy path in.  I'm assuming its picking up all the fine particles through the rocks, wood and background plants just fine, hence why you have kept it that way.
> 
> As you know I opted for the Nero 3 also after talking with you, and I'm trying to work out the best positions for the inlet, outlet and the nero in a triangular composition from left back to right front.  I counted out the back left position right from the start as I assumed that the background plants would restrict the flow, and also get battered by the outflow. Your tank seems to defy that thought...



No, the rock forms two terraces Paul, they're completely filled with crushed lava rock and soil, and the filter inlet, which is covered with a stainless steel mesh shrimp guard, sit on top of the soil at the rear, so nothing is really drwn through the rock as such.

A primary objective for me is having as little equipment visible as possible, so having the overflow outlet (for the automated water changes), and the filter inlet and outlet in the rear corner was the obvious choice, and that drove the positioning for me. The filter outlet fires water across the surface over the tops of the stems and creates some turbulence and distribution in amongst them, it then hits the side glass at something of an angle, bounces towards the front glass and then travels along the middle and bottom of the front of the tank, before being drawn back up over the front of the rocks and through the stems.

This seems to give a good circular distribution, and covers almost all areas, and as an added bonus creates a natural collection point for detritus in the bottom left hand corner for easy vacuuming out. My main issue has been that having a large CO2 reactor on the filter outlet sucks the velocity out of the flow from the Oase 850, so the Nero 3 was required to give the flow a bit more of a push around the front of the tank to ensure that I got a bit of leaf movement on the far left hand side.

I probably could have done away with the CO2 reactor and just accepted more CO2 bubbles in the tank, and a higher injection rate, and then might not have needed the Nero 3, but it's working as is now, and I've accepted the aesthetic for now.


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## Paul Kettless (12 Feb 2021)

Wookii said:


> No, the rock forms two terraces Paul, they're completely filled with crushed lava rock and soil, and the filter inlet, which is covered with a stainless steel mesh shrimp guard, sit on top of the soil at the rear, so nothing is really drwn through the rock as such.
> 
> A primary objective for me is having as little equipment visible as possible, so having the overflow outlet (for the automated water changes), and the filter inlet and outlet in the rear corner was the obvious choice, and that drove the positioning for me. The filter outlet fires water across the surface over the tops of the stems and creates some turbulence and distribution in amongst them, it then hits the side glass at something of an angle, bounces towards the front glass and then travels along the middle and bottom of the front of the tank, before being drawn back up over the front of the rocks and through the stems.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the detailed response, makes much more sense now, I assumed that the inlet was low to the bottom like the conventional approach. seems to def work for you, the tank is looking very good indeed.


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## Wookii (12 Feb 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> Appreciate the detailed response, makes much more sense now, I assumed that the inlet was low to the bottom like the conventional approach. seems to def work for you, the tank is looking very good indeed.



Thanks mate, yeah it seems to work. It might not be optimum and there may be a better placement (I know a full width spray bar is largely considered the optimum distribution pattern) but not one where the filter inlet/outlet aren't visible.


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## Kogre (7 Mar 2021)

This has been a great read, thanks for pointing it out earlier. I love the hardscape placement and how well the plants had established, even taking over the tank! How is it looking at the moment?

I've been thinking of going co2 but I'm not 100% sure yet, I understand that it leads to a load more maintenance trimming plants back on more frequent basis. I'm still undecided.

I think after purchasing the AI Prime HD lights, I'm invested in the ecosystem and if I do have issues with flow in my tank, I'll be purchasing a Nero based on this thread.

Great work on this. A really impressive effort.


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## Wookii (7 Mar 2021)

Kogre said:


> This has been a great read, thanks for pointing it out earlier. I love the hardscape placement and how well the plants had established, even taking over the tank! How is it looking at the moment?
> 
> I've been thinking of going co2 but I'm not 100% sure yet, I understand that it leads to a load more maintenance trimming plants back on more frequent basis. I'm still undecided.
> 
> ...



Thanks very much mate, very kind of you to say.

The tank is looking much the same now, as it’s really fully grown in. The difficulty is now stopping various parts from becoming overgrown, and trying to get it to
shape.

Using CO2 is a double edged sword - its great for plant growth, but it brings plenty of issues along with it.

I keeping meaning to take some updated photos of my low tech. That tank has needed absolutely nothing doing to it since I set it up, beyond a brief treatment for some Planaria. I’ve not trimmed a single plant, not even cleaned the glass - and it’s perfect, there’s not a hint of algae anywhere - so CO2 isn’t a requirement for a great tank or healthy growing plants.

Interestingly the Frogbit I got from @dw1305 grows much better in the low tech than the high tech - the leaves are massive:






The AI/Exotech kit and system is great, really well put together and thought out, I think you’ll get on great with those Primes, just watch the intensity, they are very bright!


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## dw1305 (7 Mar 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> Interestingly the Frogbit I got from @dw1305 grows much better in the low tech than the high tech - the leaves are massive:


Amazing, I've never had any that healthy.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (7 Mar 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Amazing, I've never had any that healthy.
> 
> cheers Darrel



It is a bit odd Darrel, I’m doing nothing special to it, I just autodose about 1/4 EI levels in that tank (micros have some DTPA iron added for the hard water), and it gets daily (automated)  25% tap water changes. I probably ought to thin the floaters out a bit.


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## dw1305 (7 Mar 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> I just autodose about 1/4 EI levels in that tank (micros have some DTPA iron added for the hard water), and it gets daily (automated) 25% tap water changes.


My guess is that it is just a nutrient effect, and that yours are getting plenty (possibly partially from the water changes) of everything.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (7 Mar 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> My guess is that it is just a nutrient effect, and that yours are getting plenty (possibly partially from the water changes) of everything.
> 
> cheers Darrel



It’s in contrast to the high tech tank though - the growth habit is very different. In the high tech (which receives full EI dosing) the leaves stay small but the plants produce lots of daughter plants all the time.

In the low tech, they don’t produce many daughter plants, but the leaves get much bigger.

Is the the result of the competition from all the other floaters, or just the difference in light levels?


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## dw1305 (8 Mar 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Is the the result of the competition from all the other floaters


It may be, if you have a lot of tightly packed rosettes and high humidity they will often <"produce aerial leaves and flower">.  


Wookii said:


> In the high tech (which receives full EI dosing) the leaves stay small but the plants produce lots of daughter plants all the time.


It would make sense for the plant to make a "land grab" while the going was good. 

cheers Darrel


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## shangman (8 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> It is a bit odd Darrel, I’m doing nothing special to it, I just autodose about 1/4 EI levels in that tank (micros have some DTPA iron added for the hard water), and it gets daily (automated)  25% tap water changes. I probably ought to thin the floaters out a bit.
> 
> View attachment 164349


These are some of the most beautiful floating plant I've seen, they're sooo lush and green! I would love to see a few photos of the whole tank.


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

shangman said:


> These are some of the most beautiful floating plant I've seen, they're sooo lush and green! I would love to see a few photos of the whole tank.



Thanks Rosie, I’ll try and take some tonight. The tank is a PITA to photograph as it’s a 20 year old tank with very reflective glass so along with the fish I usually manage to capture my own ulgly mug and the occasional Star Wars character (the tank is in one of my sons rooms)!


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2021)

So I managed to get some shots of the low tech tank last night balancing a polarising filter in one hand and the phone in the other to cut some of the reflections.

This is what the tank looked like after planting:




And as of last night:















There were no snails in this tank on planting, other than some microscopic Ramshorns about 2-3mm big. Now there all 20mm monsters:





It’s almost impossible to photograph the Endlers, with the tank being dimly lit, and them being so damn fast. The constantly display to one another - they never seem to tire of it, and they are afraid of nothing, their colours have come on a lot since my son picked them in the shop, and they do look beautiful:


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## Kogre (9 Mar 2021)

Just wow... The difference between the then and now shots is pretty dramatic. How many months between the two again?

Stunning tank, I love the use of moss (is it moss?) on the wood and how dense and vibrant everything looks.


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## LondonDragon (9 Mar 2021)

Stunning plant growth and health, love the snails


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2021)

Kogre said:


> Just wow... The difference between the then and now shots is pretty dramatic. How many months between the two again?
> 
> Stunning tank, I love the use of moss (is it moss?) on the wood and how dense and vibrant everything looks.



That’s over a period of 5 months. I’m quite surprised by how much it’s grown - in a high tech with stems, the growth is obvious because you have to trim stems every couple of weeks, but in a low tech like with with predominantly epiphytes and crypts, they just kind of ‘full in’ with compact leaf growth without obvious extension of stems.

Between the initial and current photo, every single crypt leaf melted. We pulled some out, but the majority got consumed by the shrimp and snails. The Becketti grew back straight away, and you can see that in the images, but the Wendtii Green - which were massive when they went it - died back without a trace. Only recently I’ve spied new green leaves at the back where they were sited.

Yes, that’s Mini Christmas moss on the wood, originally given to me by @Siege. It’s growth habit is completely different in the low light, it grows much more open and feathery, where as in high tech and high light it’s very dense and compact. The shrimp seem to love it, and the lighter weight growth looks very attractive and natural to me.


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2021)

LondonDragon said:


> Stunning plant growth and health, love the snails



Thanks Paulo - I like the snails too. I’m not a big fan of Bladder Snails, but the Ramshorns with their orange bodies look really elegant as they glide around. The added bonus being they keep the tank as clean as a whistle!


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## LondonDragon (9 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> Ramshorns with their orange bodies look really elegant as they glide around


Yeah love snails in all my tanks, my fav were the blue ramshorn shame they all died off couple years back.


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## Wookii (27 Mar 2021)

The snails seem to be somewhat addicted to my home made rapashy style algae jelly. (Those with a snail phobia might need to stem their gag reflex!)





. . . and I have absolutely no idea where this blue shrimp has come from?!


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