# Best 'coldwater' fish?



## Manrock (1 Apr 2014)

We have a small planted tank, no filter or heating, in the class at school and want to introduce the children to the world of fish. I kept a small shoal of white cloud minnow in the same tank with success but it had a filter then and quite heavy flow rates. Will white clouds be ok in a 'still' tank or should I look at another species?

Cheers


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## Sacha (1 Apr 2014)

You shouldn't keep any fish in a tank without a filter.


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## Manrock (1 Apr 2014)

Sacha said:


> You shouldn't keep any fish in a tank without a filter.


Sorry - I've seen plenty of planted, filterless tanks with healthy, even breeding, fish stocked in them. You obviously have to keep up the water changes and make sure you have a well balanced eco-system (lots of plants, scavengers, etc). The question is more about whether the wc minnows would do well in a tank with no water movement.

Cheers


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## NanoJames (1 Apr 2014)

Hi Manrock
If you plant your tank heavily enough, filtration shouldn't be a problem. You would be surprised to find that most 'tropical' fish are very happy in low temperatures. For example, I have 10 Ember Tetras in my Mini M at a temperature of 20 degrees ( unheated) and they are very happy! Do some research and try out a species!


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## Manrock (1 Apr 2014)

NanoJames said:


> Do some research and try out a species!


Cheers - I have kept chilli raspora in the same unheated tank a few years ago without issue. I was just wondering about the wc minnow?


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## NanoJames (1 Apr 2014)

Manrock said:


> I was just wondering about the wc minnow?


 TBH, I think the fact that they are minnows means that they come from quite fast moving streams and rivers that are high in oxygen and flow. I might be wrong though and someone else could maybe chip in. I personally wouldn't put them in if it meant unhappy fish but it's worth looking into!


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## Manrock (1 Apr 2014)

NanoJames said:


> they come from quite fast moving streams and rivers that are high in oxygen and flow.


That's what I suspected - there will be an airstone going?


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## tim (1 Apr 2014)

Manrock said:


> That's what I suspected - there will be an airstone going?


Couldn't the air stone be replaced with a cheap power head, you could add some sponge to the power head to stop any accidents, I think they would prefer some flow, seriously fish states they come from sluggish streams so full on river type flow may not be nescersary, in fact I have an old hob filter knocking about if you want it manrock drop me a pm.


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## Manrock (1 Apr 2014)

tim said:


> Couldn't the air stone be replaced with a cheap power head,


Cheers Tim - Thanks for your kind offer, I have explored that option but because the children are so young (4-5) I wanted to keep it electrics free. I would restock with chilli rasporas but the LFS never has any in!

Thanks again.


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## tim (1 Apr 2014)

Manrock said:


> Cheers Tim - Thanks for your kind offer, I have explored that option but because the children are so young (4-5) I wanted to keep it electrics free. I would restock with chilli rasporas but the LFS never has any in!
> 
> Thanks again.


No probs, think it's great to get kids into nature via aquariums.


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## sparkyweasel (2 Apr 2014)

How big is your 'small' tank? Paradise Fish, or American Flag Fish would be happy with low flow and low temps, if the tank is big enough for them.


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## Martin in Holland (2 Apr 2014)

How about Guppies or Platies ....nice fish for kids with the benefit of giving birth to baby while you watch


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## Edvet (2 Apr 2014)

I'd say guppies, but please do some waterchanges, It learnes the kids animals take care, and the tank and fish will benefit.


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## Mr. Teapot (2 Apr 2014)

This is really interesting, I've been reading about some topical fish preferring cooler temperatures - Neon Tetras being more comfortable at about 22 and now I find out Ember Tetras and Chili rasbora are also OK at room temperature Cool. Any others?


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## three-fingers (2 Apr 2014)

Encouraging such young children to try and keep a fish in such a small volume of water electrics-free will just be misleading to their education IMO...

It can be done, but either requires lots of luck or lots lots knowledge of which species, substrate 

A filter may not be necessary, but some form of water movement would be hugely beneficial, a powerhead would be ideal! I wouldn't try without.


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## TOO (2 Apr 2014)

As long as you do frequent water changes and keep fish that are not from fast flowing habitats (like white cloud), i would not worry about the lack of a filter. A good choice for a smaller tank are celestial pearl danios. They come from highland lakes in Myanmar where winter temps can get quite low. I even kept them outside in the Danish summer some years ago. Otherwise many livebearers come from Southern USA and Mexico and will be well suited for a low flow cold water tank.

Thomas


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## Maurits (2 Apr 2014)

With all respect but education needs to start proper. a tank without a sort of filtration isn't advisable. Yes I know that it can, Yes I know that you do it yourselves but in too many cases it fails. we are talking about 4-5 years old which you want to introduce in our beautiful world of fish keeping, great wish that more parents were doing this. But keep in mind they are kids, they want to see fish, they want feed fish , preferable every day etc. and what you don't want as a carer is that they see dead fish.

I can see your point about electricity buy if you consider an air stone for water movement please consider in this case instead of an air stone a small air driven filter, available for a couple of quit and will benefit your fish.

Please don't understand me wrong there has been a survey a while ago that in our hobby we get between 100 and 150.000 new fish keepers every year, but also we are loosing the same amount because people are fed up having problems. and those problems are caused by bad education.

spend the money, or if you don't want to send me a pm with your address details and I will pay for this internal air driven filter and you can keep again those lovely wc mountains.

best regards, Maurits


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## TOO (2 Apr 2014)

As far as I know many Walstad tanks have no filtration or even water movement. If you (a) stock lightly, (b) do not overfeed, (c) have substantial plant mass, and (d) do frequent water changes, it is quite possible to run a successful tank without. But of course it perhaps does require a bit more discipline.

Thomas


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## Martin in Holland (2 Apr 2014)

I had a small tank for a while (about 1 year) without filtration or water movement with guppies and shrimp, lots of plants. The plants, fish and shrimp did really well and I had to give away many guppies to keep stock at bay. Even the shrimps kept getting young but seldom had a chance to grow big as they got eaten. Did a 30 to 40% water change every week. 
The only reason why I stopped having this tank is that I always had to ask someone, with no knowledge of fish keeping what so ever, to take care of my tank  with different rates of success.


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## roadmaster (2 Apr 2014)

Don't know when school let's out in U.K.  but here in U.S. it is May 28th.
Have worked as maint worker/custodian for local school district for past 16 year's, and have set up many class room tank's for small children.(love this part of the job)
Children were taught about proper fish care icluding cycling, feeding, filtration,and maint.
Sadly,,once school let out for the summer,I and crew were left holding the stick so to speak with regard's to these tank's.
Folk's just up and leave em,bird's,hamster's,turtles as well.
No air conditioning run's during summer to save energy, and 80 to 100 degrees F temp's are not uncommon in these building's during July ,August.
Many fishes including White Cloud's prefer cooler temp's than those seen in closed up building's during warm month's.
Hope arrangement's to home these fish during summer break are more fruitful than what i have expierienced over the year's.


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## Tim Harrison (2 Apr 2014)

Have a read of this it might be helpful...http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=5351


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## Manrock (2 Apr 2014)

Wow - thanks for all the replies. Didn't think this would evoke such a reaction!

First off I have 3 beautiful Walstad bowls in my class that the children maintain, although the kids in my class are 10. Another teacher wants the same sort of thing for her class of 4-5 year olds but anything plugged in is a no-no. Believe me, I understand about water movement and so on. I have a 6 gallon nano tank in my classroom that I was about to break down, heavily planted with wood and lots of cherries. I've offered her the nano but it can only be as a 'Walstad' tank. I've kept plenty of fish in school in this type of set-up before and I believe that the educational value is far in excess of the 'traditional' tropical set-up. The kids have to work quite hard in the early stages to maintain the bowls/tanks and learn a lot about water conditions, biological balances, plant growth, CO2, O2...well the list is endless. They effectively create an ecosystem and learn to maintain it. My last class found BG algae in a bowl and then researched it thoroughly. It was gone within a week plus they found out its not actually algae. Many of the class now have their own Walstad bowls at home and I am often asked for new bits of anubis etc from the school nano. We just want to extend this learning and love of aquaria throughout the school but their are many restrictions placed upon us, especially when it comes to water and electricity!

I can see that the WC minnow are a no-no but I'll have a good look at some of the other species mentioned, especially the guppy/endlers.

Cheers


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## NC10 (2 Apr 2014)

Obviously an air pump can be mounted well away from the water, so just use that supply/tubing for the filter instead of it just producing bubbles, like what's used in breeder tanks for example. There are "posher" versions available to put whatever media you want in.

Pretty sure it won't supply you with a flow capable of keeping salmon, but should give you half decent active mechanical/biological filtration


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## Manrock (7 Apr 2014)

I've gone for some guppies - might provide some fry to add to the excitement!


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## viktorlantos (8 Apr 2014)

If the tank would be bigger i would recommend notropis chrosomus. A perfect cold water beauty whst you also can place in your pond. But since tha tank is small these are out


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## NatureBoy (8 Apr 2014)

viktorlantos said:


> If the tank would be bigger i would recommend notropis chrosomus. A perfect cold water beauty whst you also can place in your pond. But since tha tank is small these are out


never seen them, they look amazing


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## viktorlantos (8 Apr 2014)

NatureBoy said:


> never seen them, they look amazing



They swim like kois. Brilliant colorful fishes


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## Midraj (10 Apr 2014)

I would look into killiefish and pygmy sunfish. They can be a little difficult to get in some areas, but are great for filterless planted tanks.


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## Edvet (10 Apr 2014)

Killis would be a great educational tool if you ordered eggs and did the whole egg to egg cycle,.


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## Midraj (10 Apr 2014)

Well I wouldn't recommend the true annuals for young children in a classroom.....raising and feeding the young predators can get a little taxing. But some of the longer living shorter incubation period aphyosemions or epyplatys are great and you can handle the eggs with clean hands with few issues. Not to mention that there are some wonderful colors in most of the killi genuses.


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## Manrock (12 Apr 2014)

Thanks for all the amazing ideas. Never knew there were so many choices (if it was a larger tank anyway). But...it's a small tank and I've gone for some lemon guppies as they stand out well in an unlit (apart from natural light) tank. Cheers


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## Edvet (12 Apr 2014)

Now we need pics ofcourse


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