# time to retire from UKAPS



## Mark Evans (12 Aug 2009)

it's come to my attention that certain individuals feel that i'm out for attention. i can assure everyone that this isn't the case.

all i've ever done is try to help and influence people in starting up tanks. now if you think me posting loads of images of tanks etc seems like i'm looking for praise and attention, your wrong.

There are a few that have thought this and frankly it's upsetting to say the least. 

Especially when you found trust in certain individuals....Then you discover they've said other things behind your back! 

now i'm not holding out much for a response after all, that's all I'm after right?.....

so people of UKAPS, thanks very much for the one or 2 people that have supported me along my short journey here. you know who you are   

I wish people had the guts to speak to me and not behind my back!

cheers.

mark

P.S be sure to check out the site for up and coming journals etc and 1 or 2 surprises. ASW and APC are places to visit too!


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## Nick16 (12 Aug 2009)

dont go mate, is it everyday that a 17 year old boy looks up to an aquarium aquascaper? no. 

well rather you than david beckham


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## AdAndrews (12 Aug 2009)

what! dont leave, you are awesome, yours(and georges) tanks got me into the world of planted tanks, screw these jackasses who are saying stuff and prove them wrong, 

Adam


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## Joecoral (12 Aug 2009)

Don't go Mark. Don't care about what others think or say, do it for yourself and your own personal pleasure and development within the hobby.
If you're dead set on leaving then I respect your decision, but I think you would be making a huge mistake, both for yourself and the hobby as a whole. I know I for one have learned a huge amount from reading your journals and love how you post so many pictures and updates, I think more journals should be like the ones you make


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## viktorlantos (12 Aug 2009)

come'on Mark! you should not go. there are similar guys on every forum. people like you build the community around UKAPS and because of you guys i (and i am sure many others) are keep coming back to see what's happening daily.
Even people like me from Hungary 

so a thumbs up from me


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## Simon D (12 Aug 2009)

Mark, I can understand that because you take this hobby so passionately you feel aggrieved by some comments that may have been made by the very small minority. 

You are a kingpin to this society and your posts are invaluable. I, personally, love any picture whether it is of good quality or average, this makes the entire concept of the planted/scaped tank so much more tangible. Without you (and the other experienced scapers) I would have nothing to aspire to.

Take a chill pill and rise above the small minority, they are just jealous that they cannot achieve the fantastic results that you can. 

Take a step back and look at what you have achieved, what you have learnt and more importantly how you helped other members of the society.

If you do decide to "retire" you will be sorely missed by the *majority* of the society.


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## rawr (13 Aug 2009)

WHAT?!

I've noticed you have't been that active lately... (y'know, with me being your number one fan and everything). 

But seriously, I hope you don't leave. I don't want to repeat what the people above have said but you really are an invaluable member of this forum and one of the best ambasadors not only for the UK aquascaping scene, but for the hobby itself.

I think in everything that anyone does they're going to get critisism - especially when you're good at it! I haven't noticed any of the negative comments but don't let it get you down mate.  

Your journals are by far my favourites on this whole forum. You only have to look at my posts to see that (on my old account my most active topic was 'the miracle mire')! I love the way you update so regularly and in-depth with great images. I'm sure I speak for many when I say you've inspired and encouraged me, and given me something to aspire to. 

You're what the hobby is all about.

Like Joe said, I will respect your decision if you do decide to leave for sure and I'll certainly still check by plantedbox.com to get my dose of saintly! You will definately be missed - all the best.


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## TDI-line (13 Aug 2009)

Mark, 

it will be a real shame if your leave UKAPS, and i for one will miss your amazing threads, excellent photography and really awe inspiring scapes.

You are one of best scapers on here, and i aspire to one day have a tank that looks Saintly like.  

Hopefully we can still meet up in the future.

Regards,

Dan.


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## Dave Spencer (13 Aug 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> I wish people had the guts to speak to me and not behind my back!



There are a few on here that feel that way, Mark. I wonder how it all started?

Dave.


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## aaronnorth (13 Aug 2009)

Its hard to come across a forum without somebody being negative, but good luck and i am sure you shall proceed greatly  
Thanks for everything, you have been a big help   

Thanks, Aaron.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (13 Aug 2009)

Mark

I am sorry to hear that you are considering retiring form the forum.

From reading your post â€“ I can only surmise that there are people on this forum that are very jealous of your achievements and thread posting. 

Jealously can be dangerous thing and if you are on the receiving end of it â€“ it hurts. 

I have noticed some of the replies to various threads posted these people are hell bend on attacking your reply or if they can knock you for six or attempt to kick your legs from underneath they will you which in-turn my you feel like you are not wanted within the forum, you become afraid of posting know that these people will read you posting and posting a reply that makes you look silly by contradicting your reply â€“ well that my opinion. 

There are also numerous people with the forum who hope by continually posted threads / reply think that they will become part of the special team (forum name in green). 

A nothing issue is that people do not read the entire thread â€“ just read the last thread posting and make assumption of the previous replies.

Stay on the forum â€“ donâ€™t let these people grind you down, stick with it matey and if you wait long enough your time will come to say your piece.

Regards
Paul.


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## plantbrain (13 Aug 2009)

Don't be a quitter, stay, just to spite them
Posting of pics, attention etc, none of that matters.

I have pretty thick skin, it takes a lot to piss me off, but I've been on these forums and the web for decades now.

I suggest growing some spine and scales, the folks pissing you off are not the the mods or admin........so unless they are also hassling you, no need to flee. I left a forum for that reason(mods and admin issues). They had other issues also, so at some point it's not worth your time and it's no longer helpful, productive etc.

If it becomes personal, then it's time to move on, but that might just be between you or a couple of folks, vs the mods and admin, that's entirely different level of hassling. I'll never go back to that forum ever.

I'm a bit of hard hind end there, but it has never hurt me any 
Ultimately, they ended up being the losers, not me.
Funny how that works.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Gill (13 Aug 2009)

Pants to them, You've seen how many Tantrums I have had over the years over on TFF. I just get used to it and grow a thicker skin.


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## Nick16 (13 Aug 2009)

Gill said:
			
		

> Pants to them, You've seen how many Tantrums I have had over the years over on TFF. I just get used to it and grow a thicker skin.


youre not kidding   

(takes a step back and waits)


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## bugs (13 Aug 2009)

I thought a significant element of posting on forums was a form of showmanship, for which the poster hopes to receive favourable feedback and recognition; an endorsement of their achievements by others, in particular those that share the interest. Aka: "Attention". 

I don't see why people would have a problem with this - in fact, to even bother commenting seems pretty small-minded. There are loads of posters on here for whom I assumed their motivation was recognition - there is a fairly core style of planted tank that is avidly pursued on this site - almost setting a target against which to be judged.

On a similar note, Saintly. Why do you even care what people think? You post and they can ignore your posts. Everyone's happy.

I tend to lurk more than post as I invariably don't have much to contribute on the aforementioned style or methods prevalent in these parts. Nevertheless, FWIW - I can't say you struck me as one of the members actively seeking recognition - from memory you seem quit secure and confident in your ability and style. Perhaps that's more what irks some? Not something for which you should apologise or depart.


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## GreenNeedle (14 Aug 2009)

FWIW- Mark is in my eyes the foremost aquascaper in the UK at the moment.

He tries to use more different plants than anyone.  He pushes scaping without worry about others concerns.  He adds the best phography and we should all be behind him.

George brought the UK to this level and Mark has moved it on !!

We should all be friends and celebrate how far the UK has come on  in these few years!!!

Mark we need you to stay with us!!!

AC


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## chris1004 (14 Aug 2009)

Saintly

I for one have enjoyed reading your posts looking at your pictures and have learnt things as a diresct result of this. For that I thank you. I can only mirror the afformentioned sentiments from others but whatever you decide to do good luck fella and try not to let the detractors grind you down (in reality I would have used a different word to 'detractors' but forum etiquete and all that).

I don't agree with some sentiments of sitting back and not having any input as has been previously suggested. If we were all to adopt this approach there wouldn't be much to sit back and read would there? As for activly seeking notoriety? What for keeping a fishtank? Come on be serious....There are piers in all niches in life I think people should just be gratefull that hard won information is freely shared. I know I am.     

Its an unreasonable expectation to get on with everyone in life all of the time. So don't beat yourself up if/when you fall out with people, some of them simply ain't worth the effort mate. Best to concentrate on those that are, its far more rewarding.

Regards, Chris.


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## JazzyJeff (14 Aug 2009)

You will always get people that are envious of what others acheive and will always try and bring you down, I dont know what has gone on and too be honest dont want too, but you should stay true too yourself and keep doing what you are doing and let others do what they want, SET THE TREND DONT FOLLOW IT, so stay here and rise above it.................
I was involved in a Discus Forum for many many years and the infighting and bitching behind closed doors was laughable due mostly too one individual .................
You will always get the mines better than yours brigade its a fact of life..... My answer too it all is .... Do my own thing if people dont like it then they can go **** themselves, if they still persist I usually go round and beat the crap out of them lol 
Mate lifes too short for politics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## taylsimon (14 Aug 2009)

As with anything in life where you get people together there will be disagreements and differing points of view, and a forum is no exception, however i am not here to tell you how good you are or how you will be missed you have enough telling you that allready. All i will say is that you cannot hope to change the hearts and minds of people if you continually run as soon as you see opposition, because its everywhere.

Go take a break and look at the comments made against your sccape or whatever it was and see them for what they are, critical assessment.

Hope you make the decision that is right for you and not for others.

Simon.


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## clint24 (14 Aug 2009)

Hi Mark.Don't go ,your journals have showed me a hell of alot.These negative people are just jealous of your work as they can't reach your level of aquascaping.It would be sad to see you go.


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## James Marshall (14 Aug 2009)

Mark
 I have always found you to be helpful, polite and willing to answer any question I have asked.
Surely the fact that you do not enter contests shows us that you are NOT an attention seeker, I am frankly astounded that anyone would accuse you of this.
If you do decide to leave the forum you will be sorely missed.

Cheers
James


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## Superman (14 Aug 2009)

Mark,

I wasn't aware of anything going on and it saddens me that it is the case.
Your in a top list of people I hunt for on the forum to see what they've posted.
I thought we're here to learn, chat, develop our own skills and your one of the people that's helped me out.

If your not going to be around, then it's a shame, we need people like you, Dan, Graeme, George, Luis, Clive, Tony to do what you've all been doing.


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## Jase (14 Aug 2009)

Is this thread not just going to escalate those people's thoughts that you're attention seeking?!  :? 

Although I didn't think you were attention seeking before, merely showing your achievements and progess like anybody else, I do believe this thread is unnecessary and makes you seem just the way those people have described you, therefore although I enjoy your threads/journals/photos, I'm not gonna kiss your blahblahblahblah. If you were you so annoyed you would have gone quietly.

Good luck with any future scapes Mark, it's always a shame to lose an active member.


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## paul.in.kendal (14 Aug 2009)

Hi Mark, I've just read this entire thread, then gone back and re-read your original post.  You said:


			
				saintly said:
			
		

> all i've ever done is try to help and influence people in starting up tanks.


 Well congratulations, the responses so far (and I'm sure there'll be more in similar vein) prove that you have acheived that, and much more besides.  It was the top aquascapers posting regularly on UKAPS that persuaded me to part with lots of hard-earned cash and go for a full-on high-spec planted aquarium - without having kept so much as a goldfish before.  And YOU are one of that elite band  of top aquascapers.

If your beef is with the admin and mods, then you're right to quit and not return, as it is their forum and, quite rightly, they call the shots and UKAPS will stand or fall on the quality of their judgement.  But if it's not admin and mods, then you really should seriously consider returning. 

A hobby like this will always attract driven individuals (I know, I'm one!), and some can be tricky to engage with, especially through such an imperfect medium as an internet forum.  And unlike real life, you can't avoid them completely.  So you simply have to ignore them.  Of course, if they're determined enough, they will drive you away.   If that happens, it'll be a real shame, but rest assured that you have already achieved your original aims and much, much more.


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## Fred Dulley (16 Aug 2009)

That sucks. Thanks for the inspiration but do whatever makes you happy/feel is right.


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## CeeBee (17 Aug 2009)

I think the many supportive comments that have been posted, speak highly for you, Saintly - you really shouldn't allow yourself to be driven off.

"Noli nothi permittere te terere"   

Don't give them (whoever they are), the satisfaction of driving you off.


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## mr. luke (20 Aug 2009)

Noooo, you cant go.
Among a few others you where one of the ones that inspired me to try my hand at aquascaping   
And to be fair, even if you are going for recognition, what does it matter?
Most 'famous' aquascapers go for all the recognition they can get. Publicity will get you work


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## Mark Evans (20 Aug 2009)

After a small amount of time away, i've allowed myself time to asses certain matters.

I have to say, the overwhelming response from so many people here was extremely touching, the response via PM's was also touching, and the response from private mail too was heart warming.

Now, purely because of_ genuine_ people here, i've decided to contribute to UKAPS like before, but maybe on a more professional manner. 

This hobby is full of secrets as it is, so I'd like to share what little knowledge I have with everyone else.   If I can help inspire, then even better. if i can help with image taking, just ask. if I can help fit a new lead roof....just ask for a quote   0797.....just joking!

so folks, past is past, the future holds many wonderful things for us all   time to move on.

To everyone who pm'd, mailed and left replies here.....You my friends, are what fill me with hope for a happier wonderful world


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## AdAndrews (20 Aug 2009)

woot woot    

Welcome Back Mark


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## rawr (20 Aug 2009)

I knew you couldn't last long...   Great to see you back!


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## Nick16 (20 Aug 2009)

nice one mark, i think it was better for you to take a step back and assess your situation. 

welcome back though mate.   

(probably got bored of daytime and evening telly)


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## Superman (20 Aug 2009)

Good news that, I think having you here on this forum is a positive as you post full journals and lead us through your setup thoughts too. It's good to know that someone of your talent has the same silly questions as the rest of us.

*** Going into old man mode ***

At the end of the day, we're here to exchange ideas, views and bounce off each other and having all of the UK people in one place has got to be a good thing.

Yes, there's going to be times when people don't get along. Yes, there's going to be times when people challenge what we currently believe to work. 

We're all adults and should be able to appreciate other people's views.


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## Nick16 (20 Aug 2009)

adults    

only joking, i do hope i act more grown up and not a total child.   

(halo around my head)


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## aaronnorth (20 Aug 2009)

welcome back


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## ulster exile (20 Aug 2009)

Although I have been absent from the forum for quite a while, I still am grateful that there will be more of your threads/posts to read and be inspired by when I do drop in - the forum is a lesser place when knowledge/experience leaves.  I know very little about planted tanks, but I know what I like.


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## LondonDragon (20 Aug 2009)

Nick16 said:
			
		

> i do hope i act more grown up and not a total child.   :


Yeah  there are a few people that need to start doing more of that!


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## Dan Crawford (20 Aug 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Nick16 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here here!


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Yeah  there are a few people that need to start doing more of that!





			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Here here!



Thanks for the welcome back and that's under statement of the year that guys.


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## Stu Worrall (21 Aug 2009)

welcome back mark


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## mattyc (21 Aug 2009)

Im happy you didnt go, i need all the advice and help i can get   

Matt


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## altaaffe (21 Aug 2009)

Seems like every time I take time out from the site I come back to see thoughts of somebody leaving.  Guess I'll have to make sure I stay on all the time   

Good to hear you're not going anywhere though - this site has expoded into life thanks to contributions from people such as yourself.
Keep up the inspirational input.

Al T


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## TDI-line (21 Aug 2009)

Nice one Leadman.


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## GreenNeedle (21 Aug 2009)

altaaffe said:
			
		

> Seems like every time I take time out from the site I come back to see thoughts of somebody leaving.  Guess I'll have to make sure I stay on all the time



I left on tuesday..............

.............I will be back on the 3rd of Sept though barring BA messing up


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## fish.com1 (21 Aug 2009)

Good to see you back


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