# 2 new filters to aid flow and circulation, help me decide between....



## Pinkmummy79 (9 Apr 2013)

So, I have a Fluval Vicenza 260 bow fronted tank (248 litres), planted and lightly stocked with fish, FE co2 with a JBL reg and solenoid currently being diffused in tank with an Easy Aqua atomiser, dosing EI and daily Neutro+. 50% water changes twice a week at present to keep things fresh and clean until I have sufficient filter, flow and circulation improvements.
I know my current filter isn't enough (Fluval 305). I have a Newave 1600 powerhead to aid flow and distribution of ferts and c02 until I sort out my filters etc..
I know I need to improve my flow and circulation in the tank greatly and as soon as I can.
I would like to buy *two* new filters, run them both with spray bars, one with a UP inline atomiser and the other with an inline heater (would this be ok?).
After doing much reading of opinions, posts and marketing blurb, I think I have narrowed my choice down to two which fall within my budget....

Either 2 x APS 2000
or
2 x JBL e1501

They both have their plus points and are both within my budget with the JBL at the ceiling.

I know I can get 2 APS 2000 filters for £160 plus postage, the flow rate is good, aftersales service is good, spray bar can be changed for Eheim Installation kit and i'm not blind to the issue of a possible flow drop with using a spray bar, but then this will most likely be the case on most filters to some extent.

The JBL may be a better quality item, they are definately less power hungry which is a plus for me, however the flow rate may not be the same as the APS and if I purchase from zooplus.de/ the cost including delivery is approx £200 so not far off the APS price by too much. If something were to go wrong, I wouldn't have the immediate on hand support as the APS option would give me as purchasing from Germany.

So, I'm undecided, I like the JBL quality as have been through several issues with regulators recently and finally settled for the JBL and iit works! it's solid and does what it's supposed to do with no fuss, if the filter is of a similar high standard then I'd rather have the JBL,would 2 x JBL e1501's give me sufficient flow and circulation? either way i'm going to improve on what I currently have, so my plants tell me anyway 

Anyone help me out or even throw some others into the ring to confuse me more, my budget for 2 would be approx £200 so some new ones would be ruled out.

Cheers all 
Clive (and Fran the Pinkmummy)


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## lurch1000 (9 Apr 2013)

I like the APS filters, but one thing to consider is that they use more power than many equivalents, so one to consider and calculate over the first year. I have a 4' with two APS 1400 filters, each with a spray bar that makes the length of the back wall, pointing forwards. Flow isn't torrential, but makes for nice circulation and I also have a power head on the side wall blowing underneath the spray bar flow. Makes for some nice leaf movement.


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## BIN578 (9 Apr 2013)

JBL wins hands down.  I dont think you would find the backup any better buying APS over here to buying from Germany.  I had a problem with a filter I bought over there once, and they said they would get a new filter off to me immediately and charge me for it, and then refund me when I send the broken one back.  Simples


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## Greenview (9 Apr 2013)

I agree that JBL would be better. They are well made and the newer greenline filters use less electricity. Good luck with getting one from Zooplus though, they have not had any JBL filters in stock since early December.


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## ian_m (9 Apr 2013)

Romsey World of Water Romsey World Of Water - Home-Romsey World Of Water had the JBL filters on the shelf, on Sunday, at the same price as Zooplus.co.uk.


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## sciencefiction (9 Apr 2013)

www.zooplus.de has the JBL 1501 for about £115 each, plus if you are a new customer you may get additional discount and delivery is free for that order amount.


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## Brian Murphy (9 Apr 2013)

lurch1000 said:


> I like the APS filters, but one thing to consider is that they use more power than many equivalents, so one to consider and calculate over the first year. I have a 4' with two APS 1400 filters, each with a spray bar that makes the length of the back wall, pointing forwards. Flow isn't torrential, but makes for nice circulation and I also have a power head on the side wall blowing underneath the spray bar flow. Makes for some nice leaf movement.


 
How did you make the spraybars? I've got a APS 2000 and 1400 and would love to have them the length of my 5ft


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## lurch1000 (9 Apr 2013)

Tank is a Rio 240, each APS 1400 comes with two spray bar sections just over 6" long. I bought an extra outlet kit, and made the outlets 3 sections long on both filters. Put the intake in the outside of the notch, the outlet on the inside and elbow to 3 section bar, they meet within 3/4" at the middle.

APS2000 comes with 4sections I believe, not sure how long they are compared to the 1400, certainly a tad fatter. I'd also not want to take the 1400 bars longer than 3 sections either, be too much drop in flow unless you started blocking holes.


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## Brian Murphy (9 Apr 2013)

lurch1000 said:


> Tank is a Rio 240, each APS 1400 comes with two spray bar sections just over 6" long. I bought an extra outlet kit, and made the outlets 3 sections long on both filters. Put the intake in the outside of the notch, the outlet on the inside and elbow to 3 section bar, they meet within 3/4" at the middle.
> 
> APS2000 comes with 4sections I believe, not sure how long they are compared to the 1400, certainly a tad fatter. I'd also not want to take the 1400 bars longer than 3 sections either, be too much drop in flow unless you started blocking holes.


 
I've got a Rio400 (5ft) so got a bit extra to go.  Im thinking now of getting 2 different lengths of pipe that will fit each hose connection and drilling my own holes in it further apart and meeting in the middle with stoppers on the ends.  I have a UP inline diffuser attached to the outlet of the 1400, but thinking of taking that off to increase the flow and then splitting the the Co2 to 2 diffusers under the spraybars.  Just need to work out the correct size of holes and what space should be between holes.  Im crap at maths so if anyone wants to work it out for me? (PLEASE!)


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## Pinkmummy79 (9 Apr 2013)

I think i've decided......JBL it is then 

I just need to find them at the right price, oh and save up too, may get one to run alongside my 305 first and transfer some media accross to help seed it, my only issue is that my tank is drilled and the 305 is being run through the drilled inlet and outflow pipes, setting up the first new filter to run through my spare cupboard up and over the back of the tank will obviously cause no problems, however i'm not sure yet how i'm going to remove the pipes and put the stoppers in the vacant holes in the base of the tank without draining my tank when it comes to fitting the second filter I'm sure i'll find a way and do have some time to give it some thought I suppose while I save for the 2nd JBL.
I do need them both to tun round the back of the tank ideally so they can both run spray bars to cover the length of my 4 foot tank.

I have an idea but it's not something ive not done before so would need your approval before I disregard it, if I completely syphoned the tank down to the substrate removing all fauna to a suitable 60 litre bucket I have with tank water for say a couple of hours this would enable me to quickly remove the said pipes from my drilled tank, and screw in the fluval stoppers to seal the holes also ensuring no substrate was caught in the threads of the stoppers/bungs, my substrate is Colombo Nutri Base topped with black Unipac gravel so it's very gritty and i won't want any to get trapped in the base screw part when bunging the two holes up.This should relieve any worries of flooding the lounge and completely losing my tank too, I would then add new primed water back and replace the fish, so like a 100% water change, I could have the fish back in the tank within say 2 hours, would this cause me an algae bloom, if I just removed the filter and didn;t remove any water from it until the new filter was in place to transfer over would this too be ok? and just as important would my fish be fine in a holding container with a heater and say an air stone in there?
oh, and i'll nee a spray bottle full of tank water handy to keep my plants from drying out too.
Would this be possible at all? it's 248 litres less substrate and hardscape items.

Just trying to think ahead at this stage.
Thanks for all your opinions so far peeps


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## lurch1000 (9 Apr 2013)

Why not save all the water? Get 3 80l tubs from a discount store, then you can put it all/most back?

Fish can be split across tubs then. I've done similar when I've changed sub draw before.


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## lurch1000 (9 Apr 2013)

> ...Just need to work out the correct size of holes and what space should be between holes.  Im crap at maths so if anyone wants to work it out for me? (PLEASE!)



Copy a spray bar you have! I made a bar from overflow pipe once, 2.5mm holes every 20mm, worked a treat.


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## Brian Murphy (10 Apr 2013)

I might order that pipe from Rigid pipe per metre (16mm) in Aquatics - Plumbing - Rigid pipe and Fittings - Pipes and Clips and just space the holes a little further apart, say every other other hole. I could then use the stoppers that came in the old spaybars.


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## lurch1000 (10 Apr 2013)

However you make your bar, if the flow seems too much, you can bore out some or all of the holes to tame it. Conversely, if the flow isn't enough, you can block some holes to increase it.


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## Pinkmummy79 (10 Apr 2013)

lurch1000 said:


> Why not save all the water? Get 3 80l tubs from a discount store, then you can put it all/most back?
> 
> Fish can be split across tubs then. I've done similar when I've changed sub draw before.


Cheers good idea, I'm quite lightly stocked at the moment but splitting the fish will be a better idea and saving more water saves time too plan made, can't wait now, must see if I can get one new filter in a few weeks.
Thanks lurch


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## lurch1000 (10 Apr 2013)

No worries!

Best thing you can do is to plan and prepare, once you know what you're doing, and everything that can be done in advance has been, then start draining water and moving fish, that way they're out for the minimum time.


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## Pinkmummy79 (12 Apr 2013)

I'm trying to be good and not use the dreaded credit card!  so as Zooplus aren't getting any in until Mid April and I don't get first time discount of 10% as already a customer I tried Charterhouse as they do interest free so thought great, I can get both now then pay off over 6 months, wrong!  credit option is only available if you spend over £500 so I called my LFS who is a JBL stockist and he's ordering me one in for collection on payday and will price match any internet price.
Result   Just need my spray bar now and then save and sell a few bits for the 2nd filter , happy days

One question over the circulation and flow I have remaining in my head, If I have one filter and spray bar running the UP inline atomiser say on the left side and the 2nd filter and spray bar on the right running an inline heater, I presume the c02 and heated water will both  mix throughout the tank even though their respective spray bars only reach to the centre of my 4 foot tank? or do I need to run extra length of tubing off each one to the whole length of the tank for each spray bar so in effect I have 2 x 4 foot spray bars?  I hope not.....

I know doing this i'll lose flow rate but I just want to do this right.
Cheers
Clive


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## lurch1000 (12 Apr 2013)

I have my filters left and right in the cabinet, the intake for each filter is above it, and the spray bar above the other. Theory being what one's spray bar pumps out, the other filter takes in and returns to the other side. That's the theory anyway! If you can get the bars to meet close to the middle, you should get even distribution. I also have a 650lph power head pumping across from one side which helps the mix and creates a nice current to move the plants a little.


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## Greenview (12 Apr 2013)

Sounds like a great deal from your LFS, Pinkmummy. Pity Zooplus are still out of stock. 

The CO2 and heat will mix well if you set-up as Lurch has mentioned.


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## Pinkmummy79 (13 Apr 2013)

Ah, I see what you mean about crossing over the outflow/spraybars, it makes sense, my tank is a fluval vixenza, being 4feet and quite tall i'll most likely need extra length hosing to reach each outflow to the other side of the tank, wouldn't the tubing cross over at the rear of the tank then? in my mind sitting here looking at it it wouldn't lok too pleasing on the eye or am I missing something?


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## lurch1000 (13 Apr 2013)

A backing to the tank by the sounds of it 

I have a black laminate backing on mine, about £6 or £7 delivered for 120cm from All Pond Solutions. The dark colours bring the plants out.


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