# what led



## gareth (23 Nov 2014)

hi can anyone help im looking for some led lighting for my 8ft tank i have a budget of around 600 for the lights they have to be programable etc. im getting completly confused with what type i should have it will be a fully planted tank.
ive been looking at the evergrow it2080 range does anyone know if they are good for FW they are used alot on marine tanks and have heard of them on FW.
any help would be greatly appreciated or any recommendations on any other lights.

thanks in advance.


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## dw1305 (24 Nov 2014)

Hi all,
I'd be looking at some <"LED floodlights">.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (24 Nov 2014)

When on a budget some T5's will do the job, lots of DIY possibilities. I feel the LED market is still murky waters, some will work great, others will be overpiced and some will be totally overpriced rubbish.


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## dw1305 (24 Nov 2014)

Hi all, 
If you don't mind T5s you can get <"4' 54W Horticultural "lightwave" fittings"> cheaply. They don't have the aesthetic appeal of a specialist aquarium light but I've been pleased with the ones I bought for our glasshouse. 

The 8 light unit can be run with all 8 tubes, or the inner 4, or the outer 4 and is about £150, so two of them to cover the 8' will leave you with plenty of cash in hand.

cheers Darrel


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## NatureBoy (24 Nov 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...-DC-9-30V-Pure-White-Square-New-/181273768982 these are equivalent to tmc 600 (6  cree xbd 6500k) amazing value, power and "natural day" light.


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## dw1305 (25 Nov 2014)

Hi all,





NatureBoy said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...-DC-9-30V-Pure-White-Square-New-/181273768982 these are equivalent to tmc 600 (6  cree xbd 6500k) amazing value, power and "natural day" light.


 That looks very promising, which LED driver would you recommend to go with it?

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (25 Nov 2014)

Enlighten me, i am a noob regarding this. Why would you need a driver, aren't these "plug and play"??


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## ian_m (25 Nov 2014)

dw1305 said:


> That looks very promising, which LED driver would you recommend to go with it?


No driver need just apply 9-30V

However....
- No power supply. You will need to source 9-30V DC at suitable current.
- No brightness control. So will need to be careful to prevent vaporising all plant life.
- You need to be 100% convinced these really are Cree LED's at that price. And not "Chinese R... E...E.. can't remember exact name, but initials were CREE . Our LED spot light at work, after it got dim and failed was found to be "Cree equivalents" LED's, as it said on the box, but not Ebay listing . Replacement "proper LED job" cost £100 for 50W light and that is still going.


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## Edvet (25 Nov 2014)

"some will work great, others will be overpiced and some will be totally overpriced rubbish"................


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## ian_m (25 Nov 2014)

Personally and as an engineer who has designed LED fixtures and taken apart numerous failed cheap LED fixtures (all failed as built to a too low price) I would buy proper "big boy" named LED units to guarantee a known light level and respectable lifetime

For example in your 8 foot tank, two of these 120cm units would do it. The main important point of these, as far as I am concerned is PAR values at various depth is given. Absolutely essential for planted tank.The controller has timer and brightness control, essential as these are decent lights. Also range of fittings so can be professionally fitted above the tank.
http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/classica-otl-led/

Only minor niggle, completely outweighed of course by the fact that it is a known manufacturer, has brightness control and has stated PAR values is in the link below.
http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/fis...ica-otl-led-light-unit-freshwater-540727.html


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## BigTom (25 Nov 2014)

NatureBoy said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Qual...-DC-9-30V-Pure-White-Square-New-/181273768982 these are equivalent to tmc 600 (6  cree xbd 6500k) amazing value, power and "natural day" light.



Any idea of the beam angle on these?


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## dw1305 (25 Nov 2014)

Hi all, 





Edvet said:


> Enlighten me, i am a noob regarding this. Why would you need a driver, aren't these "plug and play"??


Sorry, I didn't really phrase the question very well. I should have said "_which transformer_....".

The lights are sold for pick-up trucks, so they run on 12V DC (or the range from 9V - 30V).

The fitting is rated at 18W, so hopefully "ian_m" can suggest the amperage range for a  constant voltage LED transformer/driver? 

I assume it is about 2A? but I don't know much about LEDs.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (25 Nov 2014)

Same guy as LED spotlight sells 12V 2A supplies.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC12V-2A-...UK-Plug-For-LED-Strip-Light-New-/181119534420

Ask him if suitable for his LED spotlight.


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## Edvet (25 Nov 2014)

Sorry to hijack your thread Gareth, but Ian don't you agree the LED market is very muddy? I believe prices are overhyped at the moment, it's a new technology, not many people know all in and outs, it's hard to gauge the output of a unit (no easily available cheap PAR meters) it's hard to tell quality from the outside and traditionaly marketing is good at blowing smoke/hot air and claim that aal is beautifull..................
I would love some down to earth, easy and widely accepted thruths about LED's.  There must be good cheaper alternatives compared to the high priced aquarium units. I understand desing, early availability and low volume production costs money, but some are charging prices which surely must lead to ridiculous profits.


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## BigTom (25 Nov 2014)

dw1305 said:


> I assume it is about 2A? but I don't know much about LEDs.



I think that's probably correct, but I'm also just making an assumption based on what manufacturers seem to supply.

I'm quite tempted by these (need something with a 60-70 degree beam).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201133335953?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Anyone have an idea if I could wire them in parallel to a 36w transformer?


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## ian_m (25 Nov 2014)

Edvet said:


> but Ian don't you agree the LED market is very muddy?


Probably.

Genuine Cree/Osram LED's cost money, a proper 3W Cree LED will cost £2 odd and a 10W £4 odd, lens £2 odd maybe all cheaper in quantity. Even worse a proper power supply, that will last, is not cheap for example a genuine Cree LED power supply to drive 10 off 3W Cree LED's £30.

This is why your Acardia lights, TMC tiles etc and their power supplies cost so much. They use genuine Cree/Osram quality parts & quality power supplies/controllers.

Cree LED's are the most faked, have a quick google to see all about it.
http://www.ledwarehouse.com/pages/led-tech

Cree LED's




Not Cree LED's.


 

My first hit Ebay for 3W CREE LED, Chinese Republic Element Emitters or what ever, clearly not the American LED company CREE parts.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CREE-3W-5...t=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item43d14882fd

When I designed some LED power supplies I couldn't really do them properly for under £10 for just the parts, probably end sale price of over £30. One of the high temperature essential capacitors was £1.50 even in bulk, though a lower quality would fail in a year replacement was 11pence !!!. Could have cut corners used cheaper lower quality, low temperature rated parts but then power supply lifetime will suffer and be significantly less than the LED !!!


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## NatureBoy (25 Nov 2014)

I did a cree xbd led fixture this summer: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-move-from-t5-to-led.33917/#post-363110 star board mounted cree leds / driver etc are pretty cheap to be honest, and that's even for a consumer buying not in quantity. All said the mini floodlights above would do a tidy job and come in even cheaper than diy!

Going DIY, you do have to do a few sums about output power, but a dimmable ballast / potentiometer only adds an extra £20 or so and a bit more electronic savvy, but if you are designing for your own need then you can run a circuit that will equate to TMC 600 run at say 50 - 70% etc.

Love the lights and the low heat output above the water (was an issue over the hot summer with the T5s)


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## dean (25 Nov 2014)

Very interesting thread I've been looking at vids on YouTube but not found out enough info to try a DIY light yet


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## gareth (25 Nov 2014)

Don't worry guys you havnt hijack the thread it's still on subject.lol   I appreciate all the help I have been looking at the arcadia lights and I know like some say brands like that are over priced for what they actually are.  but me and electrics don't mix and not sure I would be confident enough to try something as big as I would need.  But I think I will give it a go on a sump light start small..
What my main problem is I understand plants need light obvious! But what type what colour and what is par? 
 I keep reading it online but it gets too technical do you know off sites or links where it starts simple and stays simple  so I can build my knowledge or if anyone can explain it.


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## Edvet (26 Nov 2014)

Forget about color. No need to worrie about that, plants can grow with all colours, despite of what the marketing departments of lighting firms say. Par is the amount of lightparticles/energy plants can use to grow, this is the new (and correct as it seems ) value to use to ascertain  wether you have low, medium or high light. There are PAR meters you can use, but these are quite expensive yet. So there are other ways to gauge them.
PARforVariousBulbs by Edvet, on Flickr
Without CO2 stay in the low light values, with high light you'll need super good CO2 values and distribution.


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## Bobster (29 Nov 2014)

ian_m said:


> When I designed some LED power supplies I couldn't really do them properly for under £10 for just the parts, probably end sale price of over £30. One of the high temperature essential capacitors was £1.50 even in bulk, though a lower quality would fail in a year replacement was 11pence !!!. Could have cut corners used cheaper lower quality, low temperature rated parts but then power supply lifetime will suffer and be significantly less than the LED !!!



I think maybe you need to change your component suppliers or your designs! You simply shouldn't need expensive capacitors like that in such a simple design, or you are being ripped off.


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## ian_m (30 Nov 2014)

Bobster said:


> I think maybe you need to change your component suppliers or your designs! You simply shouldn't need expensive capacitors like that in such a simple design, or you are being ripped off.


Not so. There are some very clever efficient designs that use aluminium polymer electrolytic capacitors as their main switching capacitors. These have the required long life, industrial temperature rating and required electrical characteristics, to match the PSU chip used. There was a "famous" article by EDN magazine that examined loads of LED fixtures working and failed, and the lifetime of the design was absolutely nothing to do with LED's or active components but purely down to the lifetime of the capacitors used, generally cost shortcuts being taken and producing an LED bulb with LEDs rated for 50,000hours failing after 1000hours due to passive component failure. Until LED lights came along failure and lifetimes of capacitors was something designers didn't pay much attention too, generally before this the electronics failed before the capacitors.

This was used @ £1.75 each. Obviously a reel was much cheaper about £0.50 each, but still a substantial part of the cost.
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/16svpf560m/cap-alu-elec-560uf-16v-smd/dp/2354791?ost=2354791


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