# Nutrients don't cause algae - should I always dose max EI ?



## Paul195 (7 Jan 2018)

Hi

After reviewing Clive's EI dosing with dry salts article, I wondered if there is any need or point in reducing the values stated in the article, If I intend to use lower light. One advantage of doing this I suppose would that I would be able to learn what plant deficiencies look like, as I don't have any experience with recognising them currently. 

The reason I ask this question is I am trying to determine the minimum amount of water that I MUST change every week to ensure that organic waste levels are kept low (enough). If I am using less light, does this equate to less organic waste production in a given period, and therefore a smaller water change is acceptable ?

Also I wondered about nutrient accumulation over time (tied in with water change amount and frequency). Obviously with high EI dosing quantities and smaller water changes, the rate of this accumulation is much steeper, and I would like to know if this matters or not.






So in summary:-
1. What are the reasons (if any other than learning to spot deficiencies) would I choose to alter the EI quantities stated in the article.

2. Does less light mean less organic waste build up and therefore smaller water changes can be made ?

3. Do I need to consider nutrient build up over time.

Any advice on this greatly appreciated !

Cheers
Paul


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## zozo (7 Jan 2018)

Paul195 said:


> learn what plant deficiencies look like



That is rather difficult with aquatic plants. Deficiencies in almost every case goes together with discoloring and finaly dying tissue. In an terrestrial inveronment this process is much slower, depending also with obvious symptoms. In an aquatic environment this process is severely accelerated and generaly shows as melt damage. Pin pointing specific deficiencies is there for rather misleading and more often a wild guess. I guess, all  this guessing was the driving force behind inventing the EI dosing and RR etc. concepts.. To have enough of all in excess and do water changes to reset the water column.


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## Zeus. (7 Jan 2018)

Like Zozo said OFC



Paul195 said:


> What are the reasons (if any other than learning to spot deficiencies) would I choose to alter the EI quantities stated in the article.



Less ferts means the potential toxic levels of ferts takes longer to reach, so less WC needed. Also some use a slight deficeincy to get a plant to change a different colour. If its Clive article on ferts this was for a high light environment with fast growth so the EI levels where higher than say what APFUK advise. So if you have a lot of stem plants lots of light you may need to increase your EI dose. No one EI dose fits all after all its a estimate as the name suggests.



Paul195 said:


> 2. Does less light mean less organic waste build up and therefore smaller water changes can be made ?



Yes and technically less EI dose too so less WC needed, But how much is enough or not enough, it can take moths for deficiency to show and months to get them healthy again. Does take that much longer to do a 50% WC rather than a 10%



Paul195 said:


> Do I need to consider nutrient build up over time.



Not if your doing enough WCs, ie if your cleaning the tank regular removing the detritus, cleaning the filters and pipework etc that should be enough with the water you remove just to keep the tank clean, IMO best to just stick to the basic EI dose and weekly WC with good tank maintenance. It was worked out that is the cheapest way to have excess nutrients for plant growth and keeping toxin levels very low with reg WC which resets the tank every week as Zozo says


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## tam (7 Jan 2018)

If you are using very little of what you add (as you don't have high light/CO2/fast growing plants), a 50% water change wouldn't reset it though would it? Like Paul says, you'd get a steady TDS and fert level increase over time. 

If you want to do minimal water changes you want to avoid putting too much in that you need to remove. I don't think identifying individual deficiencies matters too much, just find a level at which plants are healthy - whether that's 100% of an EI dose or 50%. The duck weed index would be a good way to monitor that as any deficiencies would show up faster in the floating plants.


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## Paul195 (7 Jan 2018)

zozo said:


> Pin pointing specific deficiencies is there for rather misleading and more often a wild guess. I guess, all this guessing was the driving force behind inventing the EI dosing and RR etc. concepts


Ok this makes sense. Why worry if you you always ensure the plants have what they need.


Zeus. said:


> the potential toxic levels of ferts takes longer to reach


What are the potential toxic levels of ferts ? Is this defined ?


Zeus. said:


> IMO best to just stick to the basic EI dose


What is the basic dose you talk about ?

So maybe a good approach to this would be to use some floating plants, and start off on the lean side of dosing (say 50% EI) with 25% weekly WC, then if the floating plants tell me they are lacking in nutrients then I can up my dose and go to a 35% WC (and so on).

Are floating plants generally used for low tech tanks with not much water movement ? Just wondered if they will just end up whizzing around with the 10x turnover.


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## tam (7 Jan 2018)

Paul195 said:


> So maybe a good approach to this would be to use some floating plants, and start off on the lean side of dosing (say 50% EI) with 25% weekly WC, then if the floating plants tell me they are lacking in nutrients then I can up my dose and go to a 35% WC (and so on).
> 
> Are floating plants generally used for low tech tanks with not much water movement ? Just wondered if they will just end up whizzing around with the 10x turnover.



That's what I'd do. Rather than guessing the water change % you could also use a TDS pen - that would let you know when things creep up and how/often to change keep things steady. 

If you have trouble with the floaters and water movement, coral some in a hoop of airline tube


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## Zeus. (7 Jan 2018)

Paul195 said:


> What are the potential toxic levels of ferts ? Is this defined ?



Very high, you would have to be well over dosing and small WC going off what Clive says on here.



Paul195 said:


> So maybe a good approach to this would be to use some floating plants



or 100% EI dose get Frogbit growing well ie looking good then cut back the dose.



Paul195 said:


> What is the basic dose you talk about



APFUK starter kit does the basic dose, follow the link and its there 


Paul195 said:


> Are floating plants generally used for low tech tanks with not much water movement ? Just wondered if they will just end up whizzing around with the 10x turnover.



can be tricky but they tend to gather in areas of lower surface flow near the glass


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## Paul195 (7 Jan 2018)

Top job guys, thanks for answering these questions of mine. I have one more :

If I add seachem Equilibrium to RO water and end up with GH 4, and then add potassium bicarbonate to also bring the KH to 4, is there any need to dose MgSO4 in my dosing ? Noticed that APFUK uses 6 tsp in their macro mix, but wondered if I will already have enough Mg due to the Equilibrium.

Thanks again

P


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## Paul195 (10 Jan 2018)

Bump^^


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## ceg4048 (10 Jan 2018)

Yes, Seachem Equilibrium contains a small amount of Magnesium so additional supplementation will not be necessary.

Cheers,


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## Paul195 (10 Jan 2018)

ok great, thanks


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