# New to aquaria, advice needed!



## mrhoyo

Hello all,

Sorry, it has turned in to a bit of an essay. I'm new to all this and there are loads of tanks on here that look amazing so it seems the place to ask for help.

I've been interested in getting in to fish again for a while but have been put off by our past experience.
Years ago we were sold a Fluval Edge 23L by our LFS along with some of the 'quick start' stuff and an instruction to return in a week for the fish. As complete beginners with a tiny tank they sold us 3 pearl scale goldfish and a nice little anubias(?) on a log. The tank started getting a lot of algae so they then sold us a magnetic scraper and bristle nose pleco, followed by 3 or 5 male guppies.
Unsurprisingly (although we didn't know better at the time) it all ended terribly and they eventually all died off within a couple of months. Since then we've put it down to us just being bad with fish but my research over the last month or two has opened my eyes to what we weren't told e.g. nitrogen cycling, biological filtration, PH, GH, KH etc.
Eventually I'd love a nice 100-200l aquascaped tank in my living room but it's a huge chunk of money in case it all goes wrong.
I decided to set something smaller up in my reptile room so I can see if this is a hobby for me.

I've done a fair bit of research lately and have just received a Dennerle 70l scaper's tank, Seachem Tidal 55 filter and have a Lumini Asta 20 light due (although I may need another by the sounds of things).

Fish I like the idea of at the moment (not together) include guppies, chilli rasbora and pea puffers although I'm not sure how they are for beginners and open to options. I really want to try my hand at plants but don't think I'm ready for CO2 and flashy lights yet so open to suggestions and any advice. The wife likes the clean look of iwagumi and I'm probably more that way inclined than Dutch or Jungle style but quite like Tropica layouts 111, 115, 106 and 33 to give you an idea. Not a clue how to do it though!

Aside from plants, substrate and eventually livestock what else do I need?

The plan is to fill 2" tomorrow and leave a while to test for leaks. Then 1/3 full, then to the top and then I'll empty again.


I'm thinking:
API master kit
API KH and GH kit
Water conditioner 
Substrate
Plants
Hardscape


Then test water every few days and change regularly until cycled and no ammonia or nitrite.
Then shrimp.
Then wait a while for test to clear and then fish.


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## kishan313

Welcome, sounds like you had an interesting journey with that local fish store!

I had a similar nightmare with my fluval edge, I generally think it’s a tough tank to manage for a newbie! 

Take your time, do a lot of research, I’m new to the forum but have been on other forums and can tell you that there are many helpful people on here already. 

Good luck with your journey! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sparkyweasel

Welcome! 

Small tanks are fashionable, and shops seem to push them, but a bigger tank is much easier to manage. And now you have access to better advice than that shop gave you. 

You might like to look at this thread;
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-about-test-kits.52487/
before you decide to buy test kits.

A lot of suppliers classify their plants as 'easy', 'medium' or 'difficult'. Broadly, 'easy' means they don't need injected CO2, or high light. 'Medium' might do well without, or might not. And those things are more or less essential for the 'hard' plants. It's a rough guide, but quite useful.


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## Jayefc1

Hi and welcome @mrhoyo sorry to hear about your first tank mine to was a fluval edge there not a easy set up at all and the lfs did you no favours by the sound of it and I personally wouldnt go back there 
The scaper tank is a lovely first tank and a nice size guppy or the lil chilli rasbora will be a nice selection to start with 
I personally dont like test kits there not necessary just another way to get your hard earned money you would be better of spending it on a good water conditioner like seachems prime 
Try to buy your plants from a actual scape shop ring them talk to them ask them questions they will help and advise you on a good easy selection dont always take for granted that it is what it is the maidenhead aquatics near me sells terium plants as aquatics plants not good 
The thing is with the hoddy is as many other hobbies you get out what you put in


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## Steve Buce

Welcome aboard


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## mrhoyo

Jayefc1 said:


> Hi and welcome @mrhoyo sorry to hear about your first tank mine to was a fluval edge there not a easy set up at all and the lfs did you no favours by the sound of it and I personally wouldnt go back there
> The scaper tank is a lovely first tank and a nice size guppy or the lil chilli rasbora will be a nice selection to start with
> I personally dont like test kits there not necessary just another way to get your hard earned money you would be better of spending it on a good water conditioner like seachems prime
> Try to buy your plants from a actual scape shop ring them talk to them ask them questions they will help and advise you on a good easy selection dont always take for granted that it is what it is the maidenhead aquatics near me sells terium plants as aquatics plants not good
> The thing is with the hoddy is as many other hobbies you get out what you put in


Interesting about the test kits, don't you test anything? I thought one of the failures last time might have been not knowing ammonia levels and ph etc.


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## Jayefc1

I dont test at all as long as you do your water changes every day for the first week every other day the second week every 3 days the 3rd week yph will be fine add shrimps start off the third week and snails the following week 5th week fish and everything is all good the plants will do most of the filtration in any case
The most important thing will be a good maintenance regime most people here will tell you test kits are not accurate so what's the point


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## mrhoyo

Interesting. Not looking forward to all those changes but knew they were needed. Need a solution that's better than buckets and siphon.

I started a journal earlier, little photo for anyone interested.




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## jaypeecee

Jayefc1 said:


> most people here will tell you test kits are not accurate so what's the point



Oh, dear. I ask that everyone be more open-minded about test kits. There are a few of us on here who don't subscribe to the view that test kits are 'not accurate'. It has now become the accepted norm to see test kits in this light. If a particular test kit is considered 'not accurate', then please substantiate this with scientific evidence. Otherwise, it's just mere speculation. I am aware that some test kits may give misleading results due to interference from other ions, for example. Test kits may not be perfect but they're a lot better than guesswork.

JPC


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## Jayefc1

_I think @jaypeecee we are intitled to an opinion  I'm not a scientist and have no proof either way apart from what I see in my tanks and having never used a single test in them would not spend my money on them _


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## Simon Cole

mrhoyo said:


> Need a solution that's better than buckets and siphon.


This is where we can certainly help 
Plants are incredibly quick in removing nitrogen from your water. Some bacteria will do this over time, but not as effectively.
This post talks about the difference between plants and bacteria in removing nitrogen in detail, and I quote:
"An analogy would be that there is a big pile of money in the street, with a note saying "take me", but it is only ever picked up by a one-legged ginger irishman on a thursday."
What the author was saying is that plants will speed up how quickly your tank will cycle, removing ammonia and nitrite to safe levels. If you have enough plants to start with then you can simply wait until all of the nitrogen in the water is used up. However, the risk over this period is that algae will establish and take over your tank. That is precisely why Jay was pointing you to regular water changes initially. The theory being that algae are benefit from high ammonia and or nitrite. You can mitigate the risk by using appropriate doses of algaecide. This is marketed as "liquid carbon" so that consumers tend towards expensive and less effective products, like filter media and electrolysis devices. Promoters on YouTube deliberately downplay the role of algaecide in their show-winning aquariums so that their sponsors get more business. They sometimes even suggest that you need different lighting, substrates or better filters to achieve a planted tank. Others point towards specific fertilisers and methods in the hope that you believe this will reduce algae - yet when you look at the ingredients, they don't exactly look that perfect at delivering and limiting everything that plants need. This is what the forum is all about. Every member has a slightly different view on what you should do first.
My view is to spend your money and time wisely. Let the plants grow up, then chuck a snail and small fish in to see whether the water is safe.
Test kits are useful if you have an unsuitable tap water source or for certain aquarium soils, but you can usually manage your salt fertilisers without ever needing to buy them. You just work out the tank concentration of things like nitrate and phosphate based upon what you put in and how often you change the water. There are a few test kits that do help:  Knowing the water hardness and phosphate levels is a nice way to understand whether your nutrients have been locked-out or could become toxic in plant leaves. Sometimes too, you might want to check you salinity with an EC probe depending upon how many salts you add if you don't change your water much - but get back to me on that. If you can get access to one, a rainwater butt will save all of this hassle.
I'm very glad that you have joined this wonderful forum!


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## mrhoyo

Right, well I have an API Master Test Kit and a GH/KH test kit so I might as well use them hadn't I? The question is when and what do I do with the information?
I'll perform my first water change later.


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## Nick potts

Welcome  @mrhoyo.

Sounds like you had a hard start and unfortunately a pretty common one with lots of shops giving terrible advice.

Can't add much more than already said, lots of water changes in the beginning and a good maintenance regime are going to bring you the best results. Guppies if you like there are pretty bulletproof fish and very forgiving to mistakes and learning curves by new keepers

I do find the divide in test kits interesting, I don't use them but only as I have been at this a long time. In the salt/reef keeping side of the hobby test kits are pretty much universally recommended and lots of cases required (dosing etc)

EDIT

With regards to the test kits, if it were me I would test ammonia, nitrite in the first few weeks, this will give you an idea of the progress of the cycle. After that I wouldn't really be testing anything unless I was seeing an issue. As you have already noticed, testing is fine, but what you do with the information is the question.


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## mrhoyo

Nick potts said:


> Welcome  @mrhoyo.
> 
> Sounds like you had a hard start and unfortunately a pretty common one with lots of shops giving terrible advice.
> 
> Can't add much more than already said, lots of water changes in the beginning and a good maintenance regime are going to bring you the best results. Guppies if you like there are pretty bulletproof fish and very forgiving to mistakes and learning curves by new keepers
> 
> I do find the divide in test kits interesting, I don't use them but only as I have been at this a long time. In the salt/reef keeping side of the hobby test kits are pretty much universally recommended and lots of cases required (dosing etc)
> 
> EDIT
> 
> With regards to the test kits, if it were me I would test ammonia, nitrite in the first few weeks, this will give you an idea of the progress of the cycle. After that I wouldn't really be testing anything unless I was seeing an issue. As you have already noticed, testing is fine, but what you do with the information is the question.


Thanks, that sounds like a plan.
So, water changes as outlined by jayefc1 and the ammonia and nitrite tests in between.
How and when should I test what livestock my water is suitable for? According to my water company I've got ridiculously soft water and a high ph. I'll try to find the parameters.


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## mrhoyo




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## Nick potts

mrhoyo said:


> Thanks, that sounds like a plan.
> So, water changes as outlined by jayefc1 and the ammonia and nitrite tests in between.
> How and when should I test what livestock my water is suitable for? According to my water company I've got ridiculously soft water and a high ph. I'll try to find the parameters.



I would test the ammonia and nitrite every few days or so, you should see ammonia rise, followed by nitrite and nitrate and then a drop to 0 (for ammonia and nitrite) over the weeks. While not necessary I find learning about and observing the nitrogen cycle a good learning experience for new fish keepers.

Most fish you will find in your local shops are going to be fine in your tap water, there are some species that require special water conditions but I am not best to offer advice on that ( i keep all my fish in tap water with no testing )


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## mrhoyo

Water change 1 complete. 25 minutes of just water out, water in.
I don't believe that all these people with 200l+ tanks are spending over and hour and a half lugging buckets around so what do I need to make this easier?
Currently have one of those hand pump gravel vacs to siphon the water out, fill a bucket, empty in bathroom then repeat. Quickest way I've found to fill it so far is to empty the bucket in to tank over a colander but that's going to end up with me pouring water all over the floor and subsequent beatings from the mrs.


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## hypnogogia

I change about 130ltr weekly and it takes me about 40 minutes.  Wheelie bin full of fresh water at correct temperature.  Water is pumped I to to this from water butt and heated the night before. Take water out of tank through hose, straight into garden, then pump fresh water from wheelie bin into tank.


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## MirandaB

mrhoyo said:


> Water change 1 complete. 25 minutes of just water out, water in.
> I don't believe that all these people with 200l+ tanks are spending over and hour and a half lugging buckets around so what do I need to make this easier?
> Currently have one of those hand pump gravel vacs to siphon the water out, fill a bucket, empty in bathroom then repeat. Quickest way I've found to fill it so far is to empty the bucket in to tank over a colander but that's going to end up with me pouring water all over the floor and subsequent beatings from the mrs. View attachment 150034


 I have many tanks,the largest is 350lts......I still do it with buckets


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## mrhoyo

MirandaB said:


> I have many tanks,the largest is 350lts......I still do it with buckets


Jesus.
I'm looking at a Python but will need to fit it to my shower (instead of shower hose). Anyone know which adapter I'll need? The shower I think is 3/4".


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## MirandaB

With your water being that soft Endler,Guppies and the like are not going to do well but Chili rasbora would be ideal.
Pea puffers I keep and breed and to be honest might be best left until you're a bit more experienced


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## Ruskie

Look up George Farmers YouTube video on making large water changes easier.

From memory I think he has the bucket under the tap in the kitchen with the tap running and a submersible pump in the bucket with a length of hose running into the tank. No lugging buckets about then.


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## jaypeecee

Hi @Jayefc1


Jayefc1 said:


> ...I'm not a scientist and have no proof either way apart from what I see in my tanks and having never used a single test in them would not spend my money on them



And it sounds like you don't need test kits. That's great. Save your money! But, if you ever find yourself needing to know your water KH or nitrite, for example, then there are reliable test kits out there.

JPC


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## Jayefc1

@jaypeecee well I'm sure you wouldnt mind telling us which ones and the science that you have to prove they are as reliable as you say 

Cheers


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## jaypeecee

Jayefc1 said:


> @jaypeecee well I'm sure you wouldnt mind telling us which ones and the science that you have to prove they are as reliable as you say



Hi @Jayefc1 

If someone is genuinely interested in pursuing this, I could provide some information. But not if it's just a challenge. My time is much more valuable than that. And you have no need for test kits - you've already said that. Besides, the onus isn't on me to defend test kits. It lies with those who allege that they are inaccurate, useless, etc. I have nothing further to add. Period.

JPC


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## Nick potts

Jayefc1 said:


> @jaypeecee well I'm sure you wouldnt mind telling us which ones and the science that you have to prove they are as reliable as you say
> 
> Cheers





jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Jayefc1
> 
> If someone is genuinely interested in pursuing this, I could provide some information. But not if it's just a challenge. My time is much more valuable than that. And you have no need for test kits - you've already said that. Besides, the onus isn't on me to defend test kits. It lies with those who allege that they are inaccurate, useless, etc. I have nothing further to add. Period.
> 
> JPC



Probably not the thread for this discussion, Sorry OP if it's taken your help off course.

For anyone who wants good actionable results, you could try ICP  (Inductively Coupled Plasma) testing from the likes of triton, i used this a lot on my reef tanks.


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## Ray

On test kits I think people are at crossed purposes.

If your question is “I want to know if I have the right ratio of Potassium to Magnesium?” or some other complex piece of dosing arcana then the answer is that test kits may not serve your needs as you won’t get the accuracy you need.

If you question is:
“How hard is my water?” or
“Did uprooting all those crypts release any nasties from the substrate?” or as the OP probably wants to know: 
“Where am I on this tank cycle graph and can I add livestock yet?”







Then I think that they will serve very well because accuracy is much less important. A debate about, for example, whether you have 2ppm or 3ppm nitrite is meaningless - in either case it confirms what you are seeing and guides your response.


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## si walker

Thanks for that Ray.
For someone who has a couple of troubles with reading some words and getting them mixed up now and then, having them colour coded is a great help.
In my perfect world, Nitrite wouldn't  be called Nitrite. It would be Bitrite and Nitrate, Citrate. A>B>C.
Anyway thanks for the colour coding!!

Simon.


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## jaypeecee

Nick potts said:


> For anyone who wants good actionable results, you could try ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) testing from the likes of triton, i used this a lot on my reef tanks.



Hi @Nick potts 

ICP-OES is the definitive test method for many parameters, particularly for heavy metals. But, it does mean sending a water sample to a lab. And, it's outside a lot of people's budget. There are also a few hand-held photometers available from the likes of Hanna and ITS. I also thinks it's useful to give serious consideration to test kits from non-aquatics companies. Instead of limiting ourselves to the hobbyist companies, there are names like ITS, Hach, La Motte and Macherey-Nagel. Although they may be a little more expensive than the well-known aquarium hobby companies, I think it's money well-spent. Compare the cost of a few test kits with some of the aquarium lighting currently being sold, for example.

JPC


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## mrhoyo

Right, this went a bit off-topic but now I know I either need or don't need to test and they may or may not be accurate

I do have some tests so I will use them. Whether I need to or not, I don't suppose they can hurt.

When should I test to know which livestock is suitable? If I'm right the ph, GH and possibly KH affect my choices and can't be easily changed.


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## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> When should I test to know which livestock is suitable? If I'm right the ph, GH and possibly KH affect my choices and can't be easily changed.



Hi @mrhoyo 

You can test as soon as your tank is ready for livestock. And, you are correct - pH, GH and KH are the key parameters here. Of these, GH is the most important. When we refer to 'soft' or 'hard' water, we're really referring to GH, General Hardness. And this is mostly comprised of dissolved calcium and magnesium. KH, often known as 'carbonate hardness' or, more accurately, 'alkalinity' is the ability of the water to keep pH stable. So, when selecting fish, for example, look at the recommended water hardness and read these figures as recommended GH*. Good sources of useful data are:

https://seriouslyfish.com

https://www.fishbase.de/search.php

It is possible to change GH and KH but you'll be chasing a ghost if you try to change pH (by whatever means)!

*GH can be measured in degrees (dGH) or parts per million (ppm). Just ask anyone of us here if it gets too confusing!

JPC


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## mrhoyo

That makes sense, thanks.
I shall wait until week 4 to test.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Nick potts said:


> For anyone who wants good actionable results, you could try ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) testing from the likes of triton, i used this a lot on my reef tanks


Yes, <"ICP would be one way forward">, even then there are some issues because seawater is fairly consistent across the oceans, while freshwater is much more variable, ranging from the Rio Negro to Lake Tanganyika. 





mrhoyo said:


> When should I test to know which livestock is suitable?


I wouldn't, I'd get figures from your water supplier, they have an analytical lab at their disposal an dit will give you a baseline of hardness etc. 

After that I'd plant the tank up and <"once the plants have fully grown in"> (after ~ 6 weeks) I'd add the livestock. 

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo

MirandaB said:


> With your water being that soft Endler,Guppies and the like are not going to do well but Chili rasbora would be ideal.
> Pea puffers I keep and breed and to be honest might be best left until you're a bit more experienced


I'm curious, what is it about the puffers that's difficult?
Aside from the rasboras, are there any other fish you'd recommend? I have basically no experience of keeping fish successfully.

I'm thinking of getting cherry shrimp and nerite snails, would they be ok in water this soft?


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## MirandaB

mrhoyo said:


> I'm curious, what is it about the puffers that's difficult?
> Aside from the rasboras, are there any other fish you'd recommend? I have basically no experience of keeping fish successfully.
> 
> I'm thinking of getting cherry shrimp and nerite snails, would they be ok in water this soft?


Puffers need stable tank conditions, personally I wouldn't keep them in soft water,neutral to moderately hard suits them best ime and at the age most lfs get them in at it's difficult to sex them.
You will get issues with fighting if you end up with too many males to females and the females will get harrassed constantly.
They mostly prefer live food although they can be weaned onto frozen and they need a variety,too many people seem to think they just live on snails and bloodworm.
As to the Cherries and Nerites if the water is super soft you may run into issues with moulting in the shrimp and shell erosion with the snails but to be honest I've never kept anything in soft water so others might be able to advise better


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## Hufsa

Ive been having molting issues with cherries in 3 degrees gh water and they seem to be doing better now in 6 degrees, so I would recommend some hardness for them. 5-6 seems to be minimum from what I have read. Caridina might be better suited for very soft water but are classified as more difficult than Neocaridina so YMMV


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## mrhoyo

I'm going to do a hardness test before I next change the water to get an idea of what I'm working with. 

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## mrhoyo

Right then, keep in mind this is the very first time I've used API test kits - I know some people said not to bother but I have them -  but if I'm reading the graph above correctly I'm about bang on for 7 days (some photos are flash and no flash in case it made a difference):
Ammonia: 0.25?







Nitrite: 0?






Nitrate: 0?







Also,

KH (not so clear on this, it said water should go blue to bright yellow but it was never blue and bright yellow is subjective so I added 7 drops eventually. 1 drop should be 1 dKH):






















GH:
3 drops 53.7ppm?




PH: 6.9?


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## si walker

Must admit that I will do the same thing when I get setup. I also bought a test kit some months ago in prep.
When you say ' reading the graph correctly' is that a graph supplied with the test kit? Im yet to even open it.

Thanks for sharing.

Si


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## hypnogogia

If your ammonia is 0.25 and nitrite and nitrate are 0, then your tank is not yet cycled.


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## mrhoyo

si walker said:


> Must admit that I will do the same thing when I get setup. I also bought a test kit some months ago in prep.
> When you say ' reading the graph correctly' is that a graph supplied with the test kit? Im yet to even open it.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Si


Ray posted a graph further back in this thread
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-to-aquaria-advice-needed.61135/post-602256


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## mrhoyo

hypnogogia said:


> If your ammonia is 0.25 and nitrite and nitrate are 0, then your tank is not yet cycled.


I know, it's miles off from what I understand. Should be 0,0 and then some kind of positive nitrate reading shouldn't it?

I was testing mainly for the hardness so I can plan stocking but that's the bit I'm most confused about.


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## Ray

mrhoyo said:


> I know, it's miles off from what I understand. Should be 0,0 and then some kind of positive nitrate reading shouldn't it?
> 
> I was testing mainly for the hardness so I can plan stocking but that's the bit I'm most confused about.


Looking good.  Based on the graph, looks like you are where we would expect for 7 days 🙂
The ammonia value is so low because of all those water changes you did, else it would be higher.
Test again in 7 days and you should have some nitrites instead of ammonia.
I am surprised you have no nitrates at all when you are dosing ferts.


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## mrhoyo

Ray said:


> Looking good.  Based on the graph, looks like you are where we would expect for 7 days 🙂
> The ammonia value is so low because of all those water changes you did, else it would be higher.
> Test again in 7 days and you should have some nitrites instead of ammonia.
> I am surprised you have no nitrates at all when you are dosing ferts.


I'm only dosing 1ml a day (1ml per 10l a week), could the plants have gobbled it up in the 14 hours since?

Any idea if I've interpreted the GH correctly or which KH photo seems most legit? From my water company data it's so soft I might as well be using RO.


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## hypnogogia

mrhoyo said:


> KH (not so clear on this, it said water should go blue to bright yellow but it was never blue and bright yellow is subjective so I added 7 drops eventually. 1 drop should be 1 dKH):


If the first image is one drop and the second is two drops, then I’d say your Kh is 1, and if not 1 it’s 2. With only one drop you won’t get bright yellow because of dilution, but it’s more yellow than blue.  So, very soft water.  
Got you re the cycling, I’d missed it’s only been going for 7 days.  So, ammonia will spike, then reduce, nitrates will increase, and then eventually your nitrates will go up, and ammonia and nitrite will go to zero.


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## Hufsa

I agree with Hypnogogia about the KH and GH test. I use JBL tests so im not familiar with the colors of API, but if the drops are supposed to turn yellow, and the first drop makes the water even slightly yellow then you have 1 kh. Its not supposed to be bright, its just the change in the color you are looking for. Same for gh, only with whatever the colors are supposed to be for that test. 

A note on out of date tests, in the JBL test kit, if your GH or KH test reagent is the same color as the color you are looking for your result to turn into, that means it is out of date.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> I was testing mainly for the hardness so I can plan stocking but that's the bit I'm most confused about.


It should be on the report you <"can get from your water supplier">, they have a large analytical lab. and will be able to give you an accurate figure. 

Because of where you live you might get soft water from a Pennine reservoir or hard water from a limestone aquifer.

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It should be on the report you <"can get from your water supplier">, they have a large analytical lab. and will be able to give you an accurate figure.
> 
> Because of where you live you might get soft water from a Pennine reservoir or hard water from a limestone aquifer.
> 
> cheers Darrel


It's very soft according to the supplier (I posted the info somewhere on this thread).

Need some stocking ideas - we went to The Abyss in Stockport today and there are tonnes we like but don't know what's suitable.


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## si walker

mrhoyo said:


> Ray posted a graph further back in this thread
> https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-to-aquaria-advice-needed.61135/post-602256



Apologies.
Course he did!


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## Ray

mrhoyo said:


> Need some stocking ideas - we went to The Abyss in Stockport today and there are tonnes we like but don't know what's suitable.


Oh you’ve got Manchester water! It’s pretty good actually, kept fish in it for over 10 years as a kid. No pesky calc stains and there are tons of SE Asian and South American fish that positively prefer it. If you really need to it’s easy enough to remineralise (easier than getting it minerals out at least). I’ll let one of the fish people on here say more.

Is the Abyss worth a visit next time I’m in town?


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## mrhoyo

1 week update:
Not much.
Water change and stuck some more moss on (Taxiphyllum barbieri that arrived out of the blue yesterday).


Ray said:


> Oh you’ve got Manchester water! It’s pretty good actually, kept fish in it for over 10 years as a kid. No pesky calc stains and there are tons of SE Asian and South American fish that positively prefer it. If you really need to it’s easy enough to remineralise (easier than getting it minerals out at least). I’ll let one of the fish people on here say more.
> 
> Is the Abyss worth a visit next time I’m in town?


They had what I thought was a good selection and it's pretty big but social distance measures are in place which meant queuing to actually get in the fish bit.
Busy though which I suppose is good.

I think our water here may be even softer than theirs.


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## mrhoyo

Anyone got any stocking ideas for me?
I want some shrimp and some fish but that's about all I know. I don't want to end up getting conned in to goldfish, a plec and guppies again!


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## Hufsa

Some of my favorite fish that I have either kept or would like to keep:

Corydoras of any species, dumb/kind, whiskery lovable water cows. Will want a sandy area if youre one of those aquascaping guys, I have all sand bottom for mine.

Loaches, for your size tank maybe rosy loaches, these are lively and inquisitive and can be bred.

Kuhlii loaches are also awesome, they like to drape themselves around the plants. Goofy and happiest in groups.

Ottos you will probably get anyway since they seem to be an aquascaper staple, but they are sweet fish in their own right as well.

My favorite "normal" fish is Boraras brigittae, small, red, they have interesting behaviours where a male will pick a small area that he will defend from other males and try to impress the ladies from. Can be kept with shrimp, very small mouths and good natured.

Dwarf shrimp are also really cool and go well with cories and ottos. Not so sure with rosy loaches.

You could go for a pair of small cichlids, they are very intelligent fish and will look right back at you when you look at them. Great parents and lots of personality. Excludes corydoras and shrimp.

Psedomugil species, colorful and lively small rainbowfish.

Stiphodon gobies are a cool addition to a well oxygenated tank. Not good for open top tanks id say.

Epiplatys annulatus, clown killies, have not kept these but nice looking and do well in a small tank.

Dario dario, maybe not for a beginner but small and interesting soft water fish.

Iriatherina werneri, threadfin rainbows. Natural beauty.

Cant think of any others atm, hope this is somewhat helpful, I think you will need to experiment a bit maybe and find the kind of fish you like the most.


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> From my water company data it's so soft I might as well be using RO.



Hi @mrhoyo 

Which hardness figures does your water company provide? Do they also provide figures for Calcium and Magnesium? Just the 'mean' figures will be fine. I'd also add that you may find it useful to read about some of the basics of fishkeeping if you're new to the hobby. In my opinion, the company 'Seachem' provides some good articles. I suggest you take a look at:

https://www.seachem.com/articles.php

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

I've attached the full report, hopefully it makes more sense to you.
I'll have a look on Seachem.


----------



## mrhoyo

Hufsa said:


> Some of my favorite fish that I have either kept or would like to keep:
> 
> Corydoras of any species, dumb/kind, whiskery lovable water cows. Will want a sandy area if youre one of those aquascaping guys, I have all sand bottom for mine.
> 
> Loaches, for your size tank maybe rosy loaches, these are lively and inquisitive and can be bred.
> 
> Kuhlii loaches are also awesome, they like to drape themselves around the plants. Goofy and happiest in groups.
> 
> Ottos you will probably get anyway since they seem to be an aquascaper staple, but they are sweet fish in their own right as well.
> 
> My favorite "normal" fish is Boraras brigittae, small, red, they have interesting behaviours where a male will pick a small area that he will defend from other males and try to impress the ladies from. Can be kept with shrimp, very small mouths and good natured.
> 
> Dwarf shrimp are also really cool and go well with cories and ottos. Not so sure with rosy loaches.
> 
> You could go for a pair of small cichlids, they are very intelligent fish and will look right back at you when you look at them. Great parents and lots of personality. Excludes corydoras and shrimp.
> 
> Psedomugil species, colorful and lively small rainbowfish.
> 
> Stiphodon gobies are a cool addition to a well oxygenated tank. Not good for open top tanks id say.
> 
> Epiplatys annulatus, clown killies, have not kept these but nice looking and do well in a small tank.
> 
> Dario dario, maybe not for a beginner but small and interesting soft water fish.
> 
> Iriatherina werneri, threadfin rainbows. Natural beauty.
> 
> Cant think of any others atm, hope this is somewhat helpful, I think you will need to experiment a bit maybe and find the kind of fish you like the most.


Fantastic, that gives us something to work from.
The mrs quite liked these in the shop. Any suitable? Apologies for the poor photos.

Rams
Kribs
Emerald eye rasbora
I can't remember what the rest are


----------



## mrhoyo

We actually made a bit of a list of things we (mainly the wife) like the look of from The Abyss website. I know some are ridiculous for our tank but are there any suitable? Sorry to be a pest, they basically said to revisit in the week for advice which isn't handy when it's 45 mins+ away and we both work.

*Fish🐠🐟🐡*
◻ *Vietnamese minnow*
◻ *Yellow lab*
◻ *Scarlet badis*
◻ *Rhombo barb*
◻ *Red tiger oscar*
◻ *Red rosy barb*
◻ *Red rainbow fish*
◻ *Red tailed black shark*
◻ *Rainbow garra*
◻ *Panda loach*
◻ *Goth swordtail*
◻ *Empire gudgeon*
◻ *Blue fighting fish*
◻ *Emerald eye rasbora*
◻ *Black angel fish*
◻ *Dwarf rasbora*
◻ *Coral red pencilfish*
◻ *Bolivian ram*
◻ *Plec*
◻ *Blue fredcochui tetra*
◻ *Blue emperor tetra*
◻ *Blue acara*
◻ *Rilli shrimp*
◻ *Blue shrimp*
◻ *Black ruby barb*
◻ *Black neon tetra*
◻ *Amapa tetra*
◻ *Congo tetra*
◻ *Dalmatian Molly*
◻ *Guppy*


----------



## Hufsa

My thoughts:
Rams; Would stay away from the balloon ones (short bodies) because of health and ethical concerns.
Wild variety is hardier than the fancy bred ones.

Kribs: You buy two and then you will have four hundred. Extremely good parents - read - will chase away anything else in your tank to a small corner.

Rasboras and tetras, the ones of medium size are mostly all the same in my personal opinion, just check water parameters and if there is any very special behaviour but otherwise you can just pick whichever you like the look of the most. Medium sized schooling fish will tax your shrimp population.

Pictures: First pic looks like a Dicrossus, no experience with these. Cardinal tetras in background.
Second, Balloon rams and a L-number catfish of some variety.
Third, betta, very personable fish, will not want hurricane current all around the tank but will play in current occasionally. Unfortunately short lifespan.
Fourth, these are the kribs indeed. Notice how theres so many of them. This is foreshadowing 
Fifth pic, Ember tetras. Nice lil fish, a size up from boraras. Popular aquascaper fish.

Note: I seem to have forgotten Honey Gouramis, nice lil fish that are much less hormonal than their bigger gourami family members. Lots of personality, lives longer than betta. Can nibble plants. Mine is notorious at killing my floaters because she eats the roots.


----------



## Hufsa

Went through with some quick no's.
The rest youre going to have to google, seriouslyfish is a good starting point. You gotta do some legwork yourself.

◻ *Yellow lab* Nope. Malawi
◻ *Red tiger oscar* No way. Big big tank
◻ *Red rainbow fish* Will get too big
◻ *Red tailed black shark* Too big and territorial
◻ *Rainbow garra* Boisterous fish that I personally feel will get too big for 70l. Can chase other fish.
◻ *Panda loach* Only get these if you are sure you can keep them alive. Endangered.
◻ *Goth swordtail* Hard water
◻ *Black angel fish* Will get much too big
◻ *Plec* If youre getting a "sucker fish" / pleco of any kind make sure it is a species that will not grow to 1 meter
◻ *Blue fredcochui tetra* Large and boisterous
◻ *Blue acara* Will get too big, and will probably rescape your tank for you.
◻ *Congo tetra* Much too big
◻ *Dalmatian Molly* Hard water
◻ *Guppy* Hard water


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo 

No wonder you're having some difficulty measuring GH and KH. My quick calculations based on the calcium and magnesium figures would suggest that both GH and KH are less than 1dH. I suggest that you repeat the two tests using 10ml of tank water instead of 5ml. Then add 1 drop of test liquid at a time, swirling the tube thoroughly to ensure good mixing. Count the number of drops and let us know the result. The change in colour is likely to happen when going from 1 to 2 drops, I reckon. Please also check the expiry date of the test kits and let us know what they are.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo 

Please don't rush into this. Take your time and ensure that you choose fish according to the water hardness. It's very easy to make the mistake of picking out fish at your LFS only to find that they are not suitable for the water you may have. As your water hardness is very low, it is prone to what is known as a 'pH crash' where the pH can drop to a very low figure. I think I provided two links for you earlier in this thread for deciding on suitable fish species. But, first of all, I suggest you read about the nitrogen cycle. Get acquainted with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Decide whether to rely entirely on your filtration system to process this toxic waste or split the load between the filtration system and your plants. Here's another great place to do some reading:

http://injaf.org

Forgive me if I've overlooked anything earlier in your thread where these points have already been dealt with.

JPC


----------



## sparkyweasel

I would also rule out the Rosy Barbs as too big. 
Black Ruby Barbs are a bit smaller, but quite boisterous and would limit what other fish you could keep, ie nothing shy or delicate.
Apart from those and the ones Hufsa has ruled out the others on your list would be good. Apart from the Rams and Empire Gudgeon they are all shoaling fish and thrive in groups, so when you look at your stocking capacity allow for at least six of any species, and they will look even better if you have more, so that will limit the number of species you choose. 
Ember Tetras are good, not on your list, but in your photo.
Others you might have a look at include Green Neons, Harlequins, Copper Harlequins, Cherry Barbs and Sparkling Gouramis.
To make your tank look full, but not overcrowded, it's good to have fish that swim at different levels, eg most Rasboras spend a lot of time near the top but Barbs and Empire Gudgeon stay towards the bottom or middle (until you put floating food in) so if you go for a mix it will look better than three species that live at the surface and nobody down below.


----------



## sparkyweasel

jaypeecee said:


> As your water hardness is very low, it is prone to what is known as a 'pH crash' where the pH can drop to a very low figure.


This is a good point, you have almost no hardness at all, and while soft water is good, a little bit of hardness acts as a buffer, and resists sudden changes. You are lucky with your tapwater though, as it's much easier to add a bit of hardness than it is to remove the minerals from hard water.
If you use re-mineralisation salts to increase the hardness to 4 or 6 degrees it might avoid problems. Also, if you go for shrimps, they need some mineral content for their shells. Some kinds are more fussy than others, so you could check out the preferred hardness for the shrimp you choose, and aim for that. For avoiding a pH crash, the amount is not too critical, just that 'a bit' is safer than 'virtually none'.


----------



## MirandaB

Worth checking out the profiles of fish that take your (or your good lady's) eye on the link here.
Will give you the basic info on tank size,water requirements and compatibility  https://www.seriouslyfish.com/


----------



## jaypeecee

sparkyweasel said:


> For avoiding a pH crash, the amount is not too critical, just that 'a bit' is safer than 'virtually none'.



I ensure that KH is pretty constant around 4dKH to be on the safe side.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo 

Is that one of the ADA substrate materials you have? Amazonia, perhaps?

JPC


----------



## sparkyweasel

Yes, 4dKH doesn't sound  a lot, but it's many times more stable than one or half a degree. 
What I meant was if the OP chooses shrimps that require a particular range, that would be the range to aim for, the amount required for buffering is no too critical, so 4, 6, 8 or whetever will be fine.


----------



## jaypeecee

sparkyweasel said:


> Yes, 4dKH doesn't sound a lot, but it's many times more stable than one or half a degree. What I meant was if the OP chooses shrimps that require a particular range, that would be the range to aim for, the amount required for buffering is no too critical, so 4, 6, 8 or whetever will be fine.



Hi @sparkyweasel 

With shrimps and their need for calcium in the water, that's where GH comes in as it is a measure of calcium + magnesium in the water.

JPC


----------



## sparkyweasel

That's right, I was thinking of remineralisation salts that add both GH and KH.


----------



## mrhoyo

Hufsa said:


> Went through with some quick no's.
> The rest youre going to have to google, seriouslyfish is a good starting point. You gotta do some legwork yourself.
> 
> ◻ *Yellow lab* Nope. Malawi
> ◻ *Red tiger oscar* No way. Big big tank
> ◻ *Red rainbow fish* Will get too big
> ◻ *Red tailed black shark* Too big and territorial
> ◻ *Rainbow garra* Boisterous fish that I personally feel will get too big for 70l. Can chase other fish.
> ◻ *Panda loach* Only get these if you are sure you can keep them alive. Endangered.
> ◻ *Goth swordtail* Hard water
> ◻ *Black angel fish* Will get much too big
> ◻ *Plec* If youre getting a "sucker fish" / pleco of any kind make sure it is a species that will not grow to 1 meter
> ◻ *Blue fredcochui tetra* Large and boisterous
> ◻ *Blue acara* Will get too big, and will probably rescape your tank for you.
> ◻ *Congo tetra* Much too big
> ◻ *Dalmatian Molly* Hard water
> ◻ *Guppy* Hard water


Perfect, thanks.
I've been through seriouslyfish for everything on that list and more. It's pretty good for a description, basic care and size per fish but doesn't say e.g. you need 10+ but can only fit 5. The hardness stuff is also confusing at the minute because we don't know exactly what we have.
I can't figure out how to multi-quote off my phone so there's going to be a barrage of posts.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> No wonder you're having some difficulty measuring GH and KH. My quick calculations based on the calcium and magnesium figures would suggest that both GH and KH are less than 1dH. I suggest that you repeat the two tests using 10ml of tank water instead of 5ml. Then add 1 drop of test liquid at a time, swirling the tube thoroughly to ensure good mixing. Count the number of drops and let us know the result. The change in colour is likely to happen when going from 1 to 2 drops, I reckon. Please also check the expiry date of the test kits and let us know what they are.
> 
> JPC


I'll have a look, will probably be after work.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> Please don't rush into this. Take your time and ensure that you choose fish according to the water hardness. It's very easy to make the mistake of picking out fish at your LFS only to find that they are not suitable for the water you may have. As your water hardness is very low, it is prone to what is known as a 'pH crash' where the pH can drop to a very low figure. I think I provided two links for you earlier in this thread for deciding on suitable fish species. But, first of all, I suggest you read about the nitrogen cycle. Get acquainted with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Decide whether to rely entirely on your filtration system to process this toxic waste or split the load between the filtration system and your plants. Here's another great place to do some reading:
> 
> http://injaf.org
> 
> Forgive me if I've overlooked anything earlier in your thread where these points have already been dealt with.
> 
> JPC


I'm pretty confident with the nitrogen cycle and definitely won't rush livestock in, that's why I'm asking so much now.
I don't want a repeat of last time I had fish.

I don't really understand the "choice" bit you've mentioned - I've got the filter and I've got the plants, presumably both are processing waste (currently only ammonia)?


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> I would also rule out the Rosy Barbs as too big.
> Black Ruby Barbs are a bit smaller, but quite boisterous and would limit what other fish you could keep, ie nothing shy or delicate.
> Apart from those and the ones Hufsa has ruled out the others on your list would be good. Apart from the Rams and Empire Gudgeon they are all shoaling fish and thrive in groups, so when you look at your stocking capacity allow for at least six of any species, and they will look even better if you have more, so that will limit the number of species you choose.
> Ember Tetras are good, not on your list, but in your photo.
> Others you might have a look at include Green Neons, Harlequins, Copper Harlequins, Cherry Barbs and Sparkling Gouramis.
> To make your tank look full, but not overcrowded, it's good to have fish that swim at different levels, eg most Rasboras spend a lot of time near the top but Barbs and Empire Gudgeon stay towards the bottom or middle (until you put floating food in) so if you go for a mix it will look better than three species that live at the surface and nobody down below.


Thanks. I don't really want that "one of everything" look so I was thinking one type of shrimp, one type of shoaling fish and then maybe one or a pair of some kind of other fish (is centrepiece the word?) and perhaps a pleco or another set of bottom chaps. Not sure where shrimp live in terms of levels.


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> This is a good point, you have almost no hardness at all, and while soft water is good, a little bit of hardness acts as a buffer, and resists sudden changes. You are lucky with your tapwater though, as it's much easier to add a bit of hardness than it is to remove the minerals from hard water.
> If you use re-mineralisation salts to increase the hardness to 4 or 6 degrees it might avoid problems. Also, if you go for shrimps, they need some mineral content for their shells. Some kinds are more fussy than others, so you could check out the preferred hardness for the shrimp you choose, and aim for that. For avoiding a pH crash, the amount is not too critical, just that 'a bit' is safer than 'virtually none'.


That sounds straightforward, is it just a case of adding something when I do water changes? I'm already adding Prime and fertiliser so it's no problem for me to add salts too.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> Is that one of the ADA substrate materials you have? Amazonia, perhaps?
> 
> JPC


Tropica Aquarium Soil with JBL Volcano Mineral underneath


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> Yes, 4dKH doesn't sound  a lot, but it's many times more stable than one or half a degree.
> What I meant was if the OP chooses shrimps that require a particular range, that would be the range to aim for, the amount required for buffering is no too critical, so 4, 6, 8 or whetever will be fine.


From what I've been reading it looks like most fish and invertebrates would do better with GH and KH far above what I have at the minute. 
On seriouslyfish I've only seen a handful with recommended hardness below 20ppm which is where I think I'm sitting.


----------



## Hufsa

mrhoyo said:


> From what I've been reading it looks like most fish and invertebrates would do better with GH and KH far above what I have at the minute.



Keep in mind that its a lot easier to add a bit of salts than to get them out. Of course just using straight tap with nothing else is the absolute easiest but not always realistic. I too have soft water, not quite as soft as yours, and add a lil bit of GH powder with water changes.


----------



## mrhoyo

Tests are well in date:





The tubes are only 8ml capacity and I couldn't tell colour change in a bowl so each of these is 8ml water plus 1 drop.

KH:








GH:


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> I don't really understand the "choice" bit you've mentioned - I've got the filter and I've got the plants, presumably both are processing waste (currently only ammonia)?



Yes, that's right, both will be processing nitrogenous waste. And, as you say, that will be ammonia at the moment. The suggestion that I'm just about to make is a bit contentious but I would add _Tetra SafeStart_ to your tank to help establish a healthy bacterial colony in your filter. I, and many others, have had great success with this specific product. If you decide to try _SafeStart_, it is _very_ important to give the bottle a vigorous shake before use.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> Tropica Aquarium Soil...



So, at the moment, this will be your source of ammonia.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> I've been through seriouslyfish for everything on that list and more. It's pretty good for a description, basic care and size per fish but doesn't say e.g. you need 10+ but can only fit 5.



That's where INJAF can help. It has a useful article about fish stocking density.

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Yes, that's right, both will be processing nitrogenous waste. And, as you say, that will be ammonia at the moment. The suggestion that I'm just about to make is a bit contentious but I would add _Tetra SafeStart_ to your tank to help establish a healthy bacterial colony in your filter. I, and many others, have had great success with this specific product. If you decide to try _SafeStart_, it is _very_ important to give the bottle a vigorous shake before use.
> 
> JPC


Ordered, due tomorrow.
I've got 100ml which should be enough for 120l apparently.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> So, at the moment, this will be your source of ammonia.
> 
> JPC


Yes. That will be why it had a funky smell last week.


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> The tubes are only 8ml capacity and I couldn't tell colour change in a bowl so each of these is 8ml water plus 1 drop.



It is essential that 10ml of aquarium water is used to get the exact KH and GH. You could use a larger tube, if you have one or two spare. But, if it's a faff, then don't bother. We don't strictly need a more accurate figure. It's very evident that your tap water has virtually no hardness - be that KH or GH. So, now, you can tailor your water hardness to suit the fish you would like. Luxury! To make things simple, JBL _Aquadur_ may be a candidate for simultaneously increasing the GH and KH of your tap water. You may want to check it out. Or, you could try Tropic Marin _Re-Mineral Tropic_, which is what I use with RODI* water.

* RODI = Reverse Osmosis De-Ionized

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> Yes. That will be why it had a funky smell last week.



Quite right. I'd forgotten about that.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

jaypeecee said:


> Or, you could try Tropic Marin _Re-Mineral Tropic_, which is what I use with RODI* water.



Tropic Marin RMT doesn't only increase KH and GH. It adds other electrolytes and salts for the benefit of plants, fish and other tank inhabitants. I suggest that you get the 'improved recipe' version of RMT if you decide to opt for this product.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> I've got 100ml which should be enough for 120l apparently.



Perfect! When it arrives, please check the expiry date on the bottle _before use_. In this instance, it's particularly important as _SafeStart_ contains live bacteria. And, for fear of repeating myself, give the bottle a good shake before adding to your tank.

JPC


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


mrhoyo said:


> I've attached the full report, hopefully it makes more sense to you.


Perfect, soft clean water with just over 1 dKh/dGH. The pH is elevated by the added NaOH. You could use that straight out the tap, plus dechlorinator.  If you wanted to harden the water a little bit you could use potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) and calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) or chick grit etc., details are at <"James' Planted Tank">.


mrhoyo said:


> I can't remember what the rest are



First one is _Dicrossus filamentosus,_ I really like these, but they need live food, an established tank and *very soft *water. The Tetra is Cardinal Tetra.
Some cultivated Rams, I would just stay well away these. If you really like them you need to get German Blue Rams from a local breeder. The dotty catfish is an "L number", it may be a _Hypancistrus _like <"L201"> or it might be a juvenile <"_* L*_*eporacanthicus galaxias* "> etc. Whatever it is they need some special care. The Tetra is a Rummy-nose, I can't tell which species.
A male Betta and a Lamp-eye Killi, probably _Poropanchax normanii._
A mix of Danios (probably all forms of _Danio rerio_), Glowlight Tetra, _Corydoras aeneus, _Panda Garra.
Kribs and Blue Columbian Tetra.
Ember Tetra.
If you are keen on Cichlids, then an <"_Apistogramma_ spp">. would be worth looking at, they are a bit smaller than Kribs and not quite as homicidal. <"Peter Clarke"> ("Apisto Aquatics") is in Chesterfield, and can both advise you, and sell you some fish. 

Once the tank has grown in I would add the Tetra type fish, probably Ember Tetra out of those ones, and then a few weeks after that the larger fish. Have a look at the range of _Corydoras_ catfish available, a fish like _Corydoras panda_ would be easy to keep and attractive.

cheers Darrel


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Perfect! When it arrives, please check the expiry date on the bottle _before use_. In this instance, it's particularly important as _SafeStart_ contains live bacteria. And, for fear of repeating myself, give the bottle a good shake before adding to your tank.
> 
> JPC


I will shake it like my life depends on it.
At the risk of sounding even thicker, should I measure out exactly enough for 70l or just bung the whole lot in? I can't imagine I'll have much use for a partial bottle afterwards.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Tropic Marin RMT doesn't only increase KH and GH. It adds other electrolytes and salts for the benefit of plants, fish and other tank inhabitants. I suggest that you get the 'improved recipe' version of RMT if you decide to opt for this product.
> 
> JPC


Thanks, I'll have a look.


----------



## mrhoyo

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Perfect, soft clean water with just over 1 dKh/dGH. The pH is elevated by the added NaOH. You could use that straight out the tap, plus dechlorinator.  If you wanted to harden the water a little bit you could use potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) and calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) or chick grit etc., details are at <"James' Planted Tank">.
> 
> 
> First one is _Dicrossus filamentosus,_ I really like these, but they need live food, an established tank and *very soft *water. The Tetra is Cardinal Tetra.
> Some cultivated Rams, I would just stay well away these. If you really like them you need to get German Blue Rams from a local breeder. The dotty catfish is an "L number", it may be a _Hypancistrus _like <"L201"> or it might be a juvenile <"_* L*_*eporacanthicus galaxias* "> etc. Whatever it is they need some special care. The Tetra is a Rummy-nose, I can't tell which species.
> A male Betta and a Lamp-eye Killi, probably _Poropanchax normanii._
> A mix of Danios (probably all forms of _Danio rerio_), Glowlight Tetra, _Corydoras aeneus, _Panda Garra.
> Kribs and Blue Columbian Tetra.
> Ember Tetra.
> If you are keen on Cichlids, then an <"_Apistogramma_ spp">. would be worth looking at, they are a bit smaller than Kribs and not quite as homicidal. <"Peter Clarke"> ("Apisto Aquatics") is in Chesterfield, and can both advise you, and sell you some fish.
> 
> Once the tank has grown in I would add the Tetra type fish, probably Ember Tetra out of those ones, and then a few weeks after that the larger fish. Have a look at the range of _Corydoras_ catfish available, a fish like _Corydoras panda_ would be easy to keep and attractive.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks. Mixing my own sounds like it might be a bit too easy for me to make a mess of at the moment.

I'll have a look at Apistos.

My Mrs doesn't actually like Corydoras, she specifically pointed out that she didn't like them at the shop (it was a panda!) so that's a bugger.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> My Mrs doesn't actually like Corydoras, she specifically pointed out that she didn't like them at the shop (it was a panda!)


I've had the same issue,   "_why do you only have tabby fish?_"

cheers Darrel


----------



## mrhoyo

mrhoyo said:


> Thanks, I'll have a look.


Is there anything else I need before I order this? Looks like I'm going to be paying delivery so might as well get anything else at the same time.


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> Thanks. Mixing my own sounds like it might be a bit too easy for me to make a mess of at the moment.



Hi @mrhoyo

That's precisely why I didn't mention it. Walk, don't run - at this stage. The pre-made potions may cost a bit more at the outset but, if you value your time, you'll be better off in the long run.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> At the risk of sounding even thicker, should I measure out exactly enough for 70l or just bung the whole lot in? I can't imagine I'll have much use for a partial bottle afterwards.



Hi @mrhoyo 

I'd be tempted to just use half of the 100ml bottle initially. The bacteria will have plenty to get there gnashers into. I seem to recall that you measured 0.25ppm ammonia and the Tropica soil will continue to drip-feed the bacteria with more ammonia. It's always useful to have some _SafeStart _spare.

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> I'd be tempted to just use half of the 100ml bottle initially. The bacteria will have plenty to get there gnashers into. I seem to recall that you measured 0.25ppm ammonia and the Tropica soil will continue to drip-feed the bacteria with more ammonia. It's always useful to have some _SafeStart _spare.
> 
> JPC


That works well, I ordered two 50ml ones.


----------



## mrhoyo

Remineral ordered


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> Remineral ordered



Hi @mrhoyo 

So, does that mean you've decided which fish you would like and their preferred water hardness? Which product did you order?

JPC


----------



## sparkyweasel

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> That's precisely why I didn't mention it. Walk, don't run - at this stage. The pre-made potions may cost a bit more at the outset but, if you value your time, you'll be better off in the long run.
> 
> JPC


Same here, @mrhoyo has got a lot to take in, and I thought it best to keep things straitforward. 
After a while we can get him mixing his own remin salts, homebrew fertilisers, home-made shrimp food and all sorts.


----------



## sparkyweasel

mrhoyo said:


> That sounds straightforward, is it just a case of adding something when I do water changes? I'm already adding Prime and fertiliser so it's no problem for me to add salts too.


Yes, just dose your water change water. Only a tiny bit of extra work, but as @jaypeecee says it removes the potential for a disaster.


----------



## sparkyweasel

mrhoyo said:


> Not sure where shrimp live in terms of levels.


Pretty much everywhere, they crawl and climb, so they get up on the plants and hardscape as wel as the substrate. Don't often swim in the open water, although they can.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> So, does that mean you've decided which fish you would like and their preferred water hardness? Which product did you order?
> 
> JPC


I ordered the one you recommended, I thought it would be wise to listen considering how much you've helped so far.

I think we're going relatively simple and getting some kind of small tetra, probably green neon. Quite common but a bit more unusual than a blue neon or cardinal.
Shrimp seem to have a huge range of hardness requirement but neocaridina is the aim.

Not decided on whether to get a centrepiece or yet or any corydoras, otocinclus etc.


----------



## sparkyweasel

mrhoyo said:


> perhaps a pleco or another set of bottom chaps


People seem to be calling all sorts of things plecos these days. 'Real' plecs are huge, 50cm or more. Bristle-noses are smaller but still a fair size (mostly around 10cm)  and can be a bit clumsy.
A tiny bottom-living catfish is _Hara jerdoni_, that's worth a look. They tend to hide a lot, but will come out if you give them some bloodworms, live or frozen. _Hyalobagrus _are nice, and quite active, but hard to find in shops.


----------



## sparkyweasel

mrhoyo said:


> , probably green neon. Quite common but a bit more unusual than a blue neon or cardinal.


Also quite a bit smaller than cardinals, so you can have a bigger shoal.
Normal (as opposed to Green) Neons can be hard to find as healthy specimens Possibly because of too much inbreeding. Green Neons are usually fine.


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> Also quite a bit smaller than cardinals, so you can have a bigger shoal.
> Normal (as opposed to Green) Neons can be hard to find as healthy specimens Possibly because of too much inbreeding. Green Neons are usually fine.


Those are a couple of reasons too.
We like rummy nose but I think they're probably too big to keep in our tank.

Embers are an option too but half the photos are nice and bright and the others look like supermarket own brand versions.


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> People seem to be calling all sorts of things plecos these days. 'Real' plecs are huge, 50cm or more. Bristle-noses are smaller but still a fair size (mostly around 10cm)  and can be a bit clumsy.
> A tiny bottom-living catfish is _Hara jerdoni_, that's worth a look. They tend to hide a lot, but will come out if you give them some bloodworms, live or frozen. _Hyalobagrus _are nice, and quite active, but hard to find in shops.


I'm not particularly sold on bottom feeders to he honest. I'm attempting a carpet / lawn and it's enough work keeping the plants in as it is, I can't imagine fish all over them will help. Some tiny corydoras or something might end up in there at some point.

I saw some glass catfish in the shop and they looked amazing all grouped together but I understand theure not ideal for me.


----------



## sparkyweasel

mrhoyo said:


> I'm not particularly sold on bottom feeders to he honest


They are not compulsory. 

Glass Catfish are amazing; did you say you were thinking of a bigger tank if this one is successful? I may be thinking of some-one else. A big shoal  of those in your big tank, after you've had a bit of experience, would look great.


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> They are not compulsory.
> 
> Glass Catfish are amazing; did you say you were thinking of a bigger tank if this one is successful? I may be thinking of some-one else. A big shoal  of those in your big tank, after you've had a bit of experience, would look great.


Yes, the wife is actually quite impressed with progress so far. I could potentially have a 100x40cm in the living room or an even bigger one in the kitchen at some point (currently in the process of talking to architects about an extension).

They were all huddle under a bridge decoration, treading water. Pretty cool.


----------



## mrhoyo

Good news - the Tropic Marin has arrived.
The dosage is a bit confusing though, am I right in thinking it means 7kh and 4gh?

*Dosage:* One level measuring spoon for 15 l/4 US gal. of water (results in approx. 7°dH total hardness and raises the alkalinity by approx. 4 °dH).


----------



## Siege

mrhoyo said:


> Good news - the Tropic Marin has arrived.
> The dosage is a bit confusing though, am I right in thinking it means 7kh and 4gh?
> 
> *Dosage:* One level measuring spoon for 15 l/4 US gal. of water (results in approx. 7°dH total hardness and raises the alkalinity by approx. 4 °dH).



yes 👍😃


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> am I right in thinking it means 7kh and 4gh?


I'm going to say 4dKH and 7dGH, because the alkalinity is the dKH.
 It would be so much easier if it actually told you in mg/L (ppm). 

cheers Darrel


----------



## mrhoyo

Siege said:


> yes 👍😃


Fantastic. 
So going on my tests and predictions from others if I do 4 measures (60l worth in 70l tank) I should end up 7dkh and approx 4dgh?
Presumably then I'd dose every water change to equivalent dosage for the water replaced?


----------



## Siege

Do it once and test to make sure you are happy.

Then test the tds.

going forward you’ll only need to test the tds.

I used to use the Tropic Marin product and found it tricky to dissolve. It was easier to mix it in some warm water and then add to the new water/tank.


----------



## mrhoyo

Siege said:


> Do it once and test to make sure you are happy.
> 
> Then test the tds.
> 
> going forward you’ll only need to test the tds.
> 
> I used to use the Tropic Marin product and found it tricky to dissolve. It was easier to mix it in some warm water and then add to the new water/tank.


I see. Any recommendations for a TDS meter?


----------



## mrhoyo

Right, confused again!
Depending on what we're calling 'bright yellow' I'm either at 3dKH or 7dKH:
3




5



7




The good news is the first drop went blue this time.
GH test was easy to read, changed at bang on 8.




Whatever the dKH is I think that means my hardness parameters are now more within the normal ranges.


----------



## hypnogogia

mrhoyo said:


> Right, confused again!
> Depending on what we're calling 'bright yellow' I'm either at 3dKH or 7dKH:


The bright is confusing in this context.  This way of testing is a process known as titration, and what you are looking for is a colour change.  So, from blue to yellow (any shade of yellow) is a result.


----------



## mrhoyo

hypnogogia said:


> The bright is confusing in this context.  This way of testing is a process known as titration, and what you are looking for is a colour change.  So, from blue to yellow (any shade of yellow) is a result.


Thanks. So the Tropic Marin only raised the dKH to 3 then so, if I'm right, my ph is lower than 7. Which is due to nitrite/nitrate? This chemistry is still new!
I'll test for them at the weekend.


----------



## sparkyweasel

Yes, bright is probably not the best word. I think they mean pure yellow, as opposed to greenish-yellow or yellowish green. With low hardness you may never get those shades, but in hard water the sample could go through those shades and you would count the drops until it goes properly yellow without any green tinge.
With low hardness the yellow will always be pale, as the reagent is very diluted when you have only used 3 drops.
hth


----------



## hypnogogia

@mrhoyo, are you testing your RO water after adding re-mineral?  If so, those tested values are about right, according to the re-mineral information and info that @dw1305 provided.  Adding re-mineral as directed will increase alkalinity (Kh) by 4dKH and  general hardness by 7dGH.


----------



## mrhoyo

hypnogogia said:


> @mrhoyo, are you testing your RO water after adding re-mineral?  If so, those tested values are about right, according to the re-mineral information and info that @dw1305 provided.  Adding re-mineral as directed will increase alkalinity (Kh) by 4dKH and  general hardness by 7dGH.


Ah, it's me being an idiot and reading it wrong. I thought it meant 7dKH and 4dGH.
Bang on what it said then, more or less.

This is just added to my tap water though, not RO. I have no minerals!


----------



## hypnogogia

mrhoyo said:


> This is just added to my tap water though, not RO. I have no minerals!


Can you send me 150ltr please?


----------



## mrhoyo

hypnogogia said:


> Can you send me 150ltr please?


Hahaha I wish I could.
It's typical, if you go back to the start of this thread it was guppies i wanted and it's not really feasible. At least it wasn't African Cichlids!


----------



## mrhoyo

Testing day
Before water change:
TDS ppm 338
PH 6.9
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5(maybe 10)
KH 1
GH 8



Hardness after water change:
dKH1
dGH 5
200ppm TDS

Puts me in a peculiar situation with the mineral salts now, I need to increase dKH but dGH looks ok


----------



## mrhoyo

3 weeks in to this now.
Test before today's WC:
PH 6.9
Ammonia 0.25? 
Nitrite 0
KH 1
GH 7
Nitrate 5 or 10

All were very easy to read except ammonia and nitrate as attached (flash and no flash).
I've got bugger all dKH again so I've popped some crushed coral in the filter in an attempt to stabilise things. It might work, worth a go for a few £.
Getting good at growing algae too, I didn't think I'd ever be cleaning a fish tank with a toothbrush.


----------



## mrhoyo

Still having some algae issues, is it a case of keep changing water every day or two for a while? I was hoping to be down to once a week by now.
I've been dosing Easy Carbon but it doesn't look to do a whole lot.
I haven't fertilised for a week now and changed water Monday, Saturday now today.
I've got a handful of small amano shrimp, horned nerites, a tiny ancistrus (and 10 ember tetra) but they haven't had any effect yet, mainly because they're new and tiny.


----------



## Ray

Ugh.  Does that Brush or siphon off?  Are your Ottos eating it?
I’d be wary of not feeding too long because if your plants get into ill health it gets worse...
We should start by looking at flow and lighting: How much flow do you have in the tank - is the water slowly rolling around?  Also is your light on full power and for how long?  Also what temperature?
I’m actually still getting some of this in my own low tech tank so I’m hoping someone more experienced will drop by.


----------



## mrhoyo

Ray said:


> Ugh.  Does that Brush or siphon off?  Are your Ottos eating it?
> I’d be wary of not feeding too long because if your plants get into ill health it gets worse...
> We should start by looking at flow and lighting: How much flow do you have in the tank - is the water slowly rolling around?  Also is your light on full power and for how long?  Also what temperature?
> I’m actually still getting some of this in my own low tech tank so I’m hoping someone more experienced will drop by.


I look to have a variety- the blue stuff rubs off nicely whereas the fluffy stuff is a bit gooey.
The plants move a fair bit due to the flow, I have a HOB that's pretty oversized for this tank.
Light is full power from 2 to 8. Classed as low lighting according to Aquasabi.
Water temp is 23c give or take a degree.
I haven't noticed the bristlenose or amanos really eating this algae but they are pretty small still and quite secretive. I've seen one or two snails on it though and have more of those on the way.

I'm fairly certain I have BGA so started a Blue Exit regime last night. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo


mrhoyo said:


> I'm fairly certain I have BGA so started a Blue Exit regime last night. We'll see how it goes.



It certainly looks as though you have cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') in your tank. May I suggest that you read through a thread that, I think, is entitled 'Do I have BGA' started by @Ruskie? In order for _Blue Exit_ to be effective, the dosage needs to be increased beyond the dose suggested by _Easy-Life_, the manufacturer. In that thread, I included a fair amount of information that, I hope, you will find useful. Then, we can take it from there.

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> It certainly looks as though you have cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') in your tank. May I suggest that you read through a thread that, I think, is entitled 'Do I have BGA' started by @Ruskie? In order for _Blue Exit_ to be effective, the dosage needs to be increased beyond the dose suggested by _Easy-Life_, the manufacturer. In that thread, I included a fair amount of information that, I hope, you will find useful. Then, we can take it from there.
> 
> JPC


It turns out I've actually read that previously so it's a bonus. I'm on day 2 of standard dose, do you think I should add another today, do triple tomorrow and then move up to quadruple?

Already ordered a phosphate test based on your recent thread, it seems to make sense.


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo


mrhoyo said:


> It turns out I've actually read that previously so it's a bonus. I'm on day 2 of standard dose, do you think I should add another today, do triple tomorrow and then move up to quadruple?



Please remind me how bad the BGA is. And what tank inhabitants do you have? Perhaps you could attach a photo to your reply?


mrhoyo said:


> Already ordered a phosphate test based on your recent thread, it seems to make sense.



Did you order the JBL phosphate (sensitive) test kit? It's a good kit to work with. As with all test kits, if the colour you get from your sample corresponds to the maximum value on the chart, dilution of your test sample may be called for. You can use distilled water, RO+DI water, RO water or pure rainwater to do this. When I say 'pure rainwater', I'm referring to water that hasn't flowed over a roof, for example. When it rains, just stick a large diameter funnel in the top of a clean container and collect this water. It won't be a lot but it should be sufficient for this purpose.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

Just seen your photos. Will take a good look at them!

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo 

Do you have any activated carbon in your filter?

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> Please remind me how bad the BGA is. And what tank inhabitants do you have? Perhaps you could attach a photo to your reply?
> 
> 
> Did you order the JBL phosphate (sensitive) test kit? It's a good kit to work with. As with all test kits, if the colour you get from your sample corresponds to the maximum value on the chart, dilution of your test sample may be called for. You can use distilled water, RO+DI water, RO water or pure rainwater to do this. When I say 'pure rainwater', I'm referring to water that hasn't flowed over a roof, for example. When it rains, just stick a large diameter funnel in the top of a clean container and collect this water. It won't be a lot but it should be sufficient for this purpose.
> 
> JPC


API for now, will get JBL if I have no luck though. It looked pretty complicated on the photos.


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> Do you have any activated carbon in your filter?
> 
> JPC


I don't but do have Purigen (put it in at the weekend to see if it would help the algae situation).


----------



## mrhoyo

Is the JBL test any easier to decipher? This API one is like 50 shades of green. Today's tests:
PH 6.9
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0-5
Phosphate 0-0.25
KH 1
GH 3


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo


mrhoyo said:


> I don't but do have Purigen (put it in at the weekend to see if it would help the algae situation).



You need to remove the _Purigen_ as it will remove the _Blue Exit_ from the water column. The instructions for _Blue Exit_ state "Remove the adsorbent materials (such as active carbon)".

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> You need to remove the _Purigen_ as it will remove the _Blue Exit_ from the water column. The instructions for _Blue Exit_ state "Remove the adsorbent materials (such as active carbon)".
> 
> JPC


I suppose that's coming out then which is a shame because the algae free bits look nice. I thought Purigen was didn't affect such things for some reason.


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo 


mrhoyo said:


> Nitrate 0-5
> Phosphate 0-0.25



Both your nitrate and phosphate are at very low levels, particularly the nitrate. I'd be tempted to firstly increase nitrate to 20 ppm using something like _TNC Complete_. This will likely increase phosphate to around 2 ppm, which is a bit higher than I would have liked. Ideally, we'd use separate fertilizers for nitrate and phosphate. A bit of trial and error is called for, I'm afraid.

You'd be wise to replace the API Phosphate kit with the JBL PO4 _Sensitive_ kit. The first of these is insufficiently sensitive as it jumps from 0.0 to 0.5 ppm.

JPC


----------



## jaypeecee

mrhoyo said:


> I thought Purigen was didn't affect such things for some reason.



_Purigen_ removes organic compounds from the water just like activated carbon. The active ingredient in _Blue Exit_ is salicylic acid, which is an organic compound.

JPC


----------



## Ray

jaypeecee said:


> Both your nitrate and phosphate are at very low levels, particularly the nitrate. I'd be tempted to firstly increase nitrate to 20 ppm using something like _TNC Complete_. This will likely increase phosphate to around 2 ppm, which is a bit higher than I would have liked. Ideally, we'd use separate fertilizers for nitrate and phosphate. A bit of trial and error is called for, I'm afraid.


Agree that Nitrate is too low.
@jaypeecee - hi Jay, what's your target ppm for phosphate & nitrogen to give the BBA a headache?  Seem to recall in another thread you were hypothesising that the ratio of the two was in some way important?


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @Ray 

Please take a look at https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/a-fresh-look-at-preventing-algae.61671/#post-607141.

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> Both your nitrate and phosphate are at very low levels, particularly the nitrate. I'd be tempted to firstly increase nitrate to 20 ppm using something like _TNC Complete_. This will likely increase phosphate to around 2 ppm, which is a bit higher than I would have liked. Ideally, we'd use separate fertilizers for nitrate and phosphate. A bit of trial and error is called for, I'm afraid.
> 
> You'd be wise to replace the API Phosphate kit with the JBL PO4 _Sensitive_ kit. The first of these is insufficiently sensitive as it jumps from 0.0 to 0.5 ppm.
> 
> JPC


JBL ordered.
I already have TNC, I haven't used it for about a week and a half in an attempt to reduce the algae.


----------



## jaypeecee

Hi @mrhoyo


mrhoyo said:


> I already have TNC, I haven't used it for about a week and a half in an attempt to reduce the algae.



Plants that are growing help to suppress algae. As @Ray said below:


Ray said:


> I’d be wary of not feeding too long because if your plants get into ill health it gets worse...



Plants also need a source of carbon that they can use. Perhaps you could consider using the _EasyCarbo_ again?

JPC


----------



## mrhoyo

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> Plants that are growing help to suppress algae. As @Ray said below:
> 
> 
> Plants also need a source of carbon that they can use. Perhaps you could consider using the _EasyCarbo_ again?
> 
> JPC


Sorry, I've been using the Easy Carbo all week. Forgot to mention that.

There seems to be a huge range of dosing for TNC based on threads on here; should I be using what it says on the pack or somewhere up to the Aquarium Gardens double-triple?


----------



## Ray

mrhoyo said:


> Sorry, I've been using the Easy Carbo all week. Forgot to mention that.
> 
> There seems to be a huge range of dosing for TNC based on threads on here; should I be using what it says on the pack or somewhere up to the Aquarium Gardens double-triple?



For low tech what it says on the bottle is normally fine.


----------



## mrhoyo

Should this Blue Exit stuff be working by now? It's getting 25ml a day which I reckon is 3 times the dose for the water volume, maybe more.


----------



## Ray

I don’t know, so I’m watching this thread carefully because I’ve got some background BGA in my low tech Betta tank too, which is a similar age to your tank.  I don’t think the BGA will retreat faced by Blue Exit but it might stop spreading allowing you to remove what there is - what are you seeing up to now?


----------



## Ray

@mrhoyo just checking on you - how goes the war against the BGA?


----------



## mrhoyo

Ray said:


> @mrhoyo just checking on you - how goes the war against the BGA?


The BlueExit was pretty much useless so I'm trying plan b- 2+ big water changes a week and lights dimmed. It seems to be retreating and so far I think the plants are growing. I'll get a picture in a sec.


----------



## mrhoyo




----------



## hypnogogia

@mrhoyo that looks much better.


----------



## Ray

Looking very good! So it seems to be good hygiene basically - regular water changes and vacuuming up mulm and debris?


----------



## mrhoyo

Ray said:


> Looking very good! So it seems to be good hygiene basically - regular water changes and vacuuming up mulm and debris?


That combined with reduced light. I haven't managed to eradicate it yet but really it's just hanging on in the moss.
I'm finding the grass either holds or produces a lot of crud but it seems to be getting better.
Need to trim some stuff soon, I think I'll give it a couple more weeks to try and clear the last of the BGA and then start.


----------



## mrhoyo

BGA all but gone now so I've turned the light up a bit. If it stays away I'll increase it a bit more, if not I'll drop it again.
All looking ok at the minute although had a corydoras die last week. All other fish seem ok so not sure what the problem was.


----------



## mrhoyo

I got annoyed with my 'carpet' the other day so ordered some more in an attempt to make it look thicker. Thought I'd try sagittaria subulata.
Whilst I was on the AG website I got tempted by their mixed crypts so have ended up with parva, costata and willisii. Not sure how well they'll do without good lights and CO2 but we'll see.

All looks a bit of a mess at the minute but I daren't trim much or remove the horrendous pile of floating stems in case the BGA returns.







I don't know what the term for this feeling is but I'm sure there is one; basically I REALLY want a bigger tank now and CO2 and all the goodies.


----------



## hypnogogia

mrhoyo said:


> basically I REALLY want a bigger tank now and CO2 and all the goodies.


Lol, we all go through that.
The crypts should do ok with lower lighting.  Just make sure you give them so,es root tans as they feed through their roots.


----------



## sparkyweasel

Crypts often lose their leaves in response to being moved to new conditions. If that happens, remove the melting leaves and leave the roots in place: they will send up new leaves as they adapt to the conditions in your tank.


----------



## mrhoyo

hypnogogia said:


> Lol, we all go through that.
> The crypts should do ok with lower lighting.  Just make sure you give them so,es root tans as they feed through their roots.


Root tabs ordered, I wouldn't have known to do that.


----------



## mrhoyo

sparkyweasel said:


> Crypts often lose their leaves in response to being moved to new conditions. If that happens, remove the melting leaves and leave the roots in place: they will send up new leaves as they adapt to the conditions in your tank.


Thanks, I'll keep an eye on them. O know some people trying them before planting but I thought I'd see how they go on the basis my other crypts didn't melt.


----------



## Melll

I never used to trim the roots or leaves off crypts and they seemed to take ages to do any growth.  Now both ends get a good trim and the results are so much better, healthier looking and quicker.


----------



## mrhoyo

Melll said:


> I never used to trim the roots or leaves off crypts and they seemed to take ages to do any growth.  Now both ends get a good trim and the results are so much better, healthier looking and quicker.


Trimmed the roots before planting (they were huge!) and I think I'll do the leaves depending on how they look in a couple of days. I think there's some slight yellowing already so just want to see how it progresses before hacking them to bits.


----------



## mrhoyo

All the new plants looked to be melting a bit so I've trimmed them down and we'll see how we go.
Also added a few root tabs and removed the floating section - stored for later, just in case. Looks much tidier but half expecting to see some algae now.


----------



## Fiske

Some cryptocoryne take forever to get going. My willisii x nevillii is just about to get a move on after 4 months 🙄 My wendtii took their sweet time too, about 2 months; same with my crispatula, but they are going for world domination now.
So I also need a bigger tank 😁


----------

