# Whatever happened to ...



## Aqua sobriquet (22 Mar 2012)

Under tank heating mats?  I got rid of my last aquarium about 20 years ago but at the time it was heated with an under tank mat, placed between the tank and a layer of polystyrene. A friend of mine also used the same system at the time as well.  I can't seem to find anything about them now, anyone know why?  Mine worked flawlessly for many years once I had a suitable thermostatic controller for it. The first one was not very good but I managed to get a simple to build electronics kit that did the trick. The only part that came into contact with water was a small temperature probe so it was very safe. Would be interested to know why they have disappeared as they seemed very popular at the time!


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## ceg4048 (22 Mar 2012)

Hi,
   They disappeared because they were marketed as being better for plant growth due to generating water currents at the roots, which was never verified. They were expensive,  especially for large tanks. The same could be said of the heating cables in which plant roots often would get entangled on them, making replanting annoying. Since neither the mats nor the cables offered any palpable benefits they soon fell out of favor. Thermofilters, and external heaters replaced them as far as minimizing in-tank equipment goes and plants have no difficulty growing without mats or cables.

Cheers,


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## Aqua sobriquet (23 Mar 2012)

The under tank mats weren't expensive, I think I paid about £14 for the Mat itself (for my 36" 50 Gallon tank) and the controller kit was around £6.50 plus the cost of a case and control knob. The far less attractive (IMO) in-tank cable types were more expensive I believe, particularly the German made controllers. Shame about the Mats, I still have the plans for the controller but not much use if I can't buy the mat!


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## danmil3s (23 Mar 2012)

you could try one designed for reptiles the http://exoticpets.about.com/od/herpreso ... ient_6.htm


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## Aqua sobriquet (23 Mar 2012)

Thanks, yes that may be worth a look if I can sort out a controller.


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## sparkyweasel (27 Mar 2012)

Those mats were excellent, I used loads of them, some are still going now, after more than twenty years of use. Most of the ones that failed had been stored in the loft and didn't work when they came out again, the other dead one got soaked by a leaking tank.
I don't remember any-one, makers or 'experts' claiming they improved plant growth, just that the heater was outside the tank, giving less clutter and more safety against both heater breakage and fish injuries. This was before in-line heaters and thermofilters were widely available. When thermofilters first arrived they were hideously expensive too.
The price, with a thermostat was only slightly more than a cheap brand of heaterstat.
I assume they were never as popular as they should have been; when Ultratherm stopped making the aquarium ones they continued with the reptile version, so I guess there must have been more profit in those. Their reptile ones are not suitable for aquarium use, I don't know about the ones in danmil3s's link above; if anyone has tried them, or does so, please post your findings!


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## darren636 (27 Mar 2012)

think the growth claims were based on terrestrial plants- the warmth at the roots encouraging growth beneath the soil. works a treat with seedlings.


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## danmil3s (27 Mar 2012)

Sorry should of been more clear I didn't mean use that mat just some thing like, it they do make waterproof ones for paliderums 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk


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## Aqua sobriquet (27 Mar 2012)

Some of the ones I've seen online look very similar to the one I had. I wonder what the difference is?  Given my past experience I'd much rather use this type of heater on my next Aquarium if I can.


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## sparkyweasel (28 Mar 2012)

danmil3s said:
			
		

> Sorry should of been more clear I didn't mean use that mat just some thing like, it they do make waterproof ones for paliderums



That one may well work, but some-one with a bit of spare cash in the present economic climate would have to buy one to try it out. Or some-one who keep reptiles and would have another use for it if it turns out to be not suitable for aquariums.
It doesn't need to be waterproof, as it goes outside the tank.
It may not be powerful enough to heat water to a suitable temperature, as that takes more energy than heating a similar volume of air.


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## plantbrain (28 Mar 2012)

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> The under tank mats weren't expensive, I think I paid about £14 for the Mat itself (for my 36" 50 Gallon tank) and the controller kit was around £6.50 plus the cost of a case and control knob. The far less attractive (IMO) in-tank cable types were more expensive I believe, particularly the German made controllers. Shame about the Mats, I still have the plans for the controller but not much use if I can't buy the mat!



Not the cheapo ones today..The Dupla Cables ran about 400-700$, the Sandpoint ran about 300-400$.

Or you could DIY and spend maybe 15-30$ tops. I did all 3 options, 10 years, maybe 100 species of plants........never could show a difference.

Mats were strongly argued against by the Dupla Fan boy club...........they claimed the cables needed to be inside the tank to create the proper current like a fire place grate pulling air in from below, which was rubbish to begin with.........same type of hokeyness is used by today 's ADA Fan boy club with regards to powersand.

Some myths are hard to kill I suppose.

Hydor came out with some cables that ran about 30-50$, but few bother with them, sort of an old myth that really does not do anything for the tank and with so many tanks lacking cables and looking much better than the tanks with cables...........well, proof in the pudding.


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## Aqua sobriquet (28 Mar 2012)

I must admit I never really cared much about Dupla's argument for their heating cables - apart from the cost I just didn't want ugly cables going in and out of the tank. The only part of my old setup that was visible was a small temperature sensor.

I think it's in bits  :?  but when I get a minute I'll try and find my old controller. I have the parts list and circuit diagram somewhere so I could probably make a new one but I don't work so fast these days ...  

Update:

Found a couple of controllers, not sure how good/suitable:

http://www.easypet247.com/product.php?id_product=45

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Aquar ... 3134wt_989

Plus an interesting article. (my old controller was proportional)

http://benkrasnow.blogspot.co.uk/2009/0 ... r-pid.html


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## dw1305 (28 Mar 2012)

Hi all,
You don't need to get a reptile heating mat, they do these for plant propagation as well, and you can get a range of sizes with thermostats etc. I've got a "Rootit" mat, and they are very good. Other makes are  "Ultratherm", "Hobby Heatwave", "Bio Green" etc.  A 65W mat will heat a 60cm tank with a lid and polystyrene backing, but probably not an open top tank.

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish (28 Mar 2012)

Heating cables & mats were most definitely promoted as an aid for planted tanks.
The idea was the cable created a very slow circulation current within the substrate drawing down nutrients & the mats simply kept the roots warm.
I can also remember a heating tube that actually ran tank water via a powerhead through an 3/8 tube placed under the substrate.
I guesse things just come & go in fads, I still use heating mats under two immersed set ups.


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## sparkyweasel (28 Mar 2012)

Oh, yes heating cables! Seemed like a con at the time, also really expensive, and only added a gentle heat to the substrate so you still needed to heat the tank.
I do think (very) gentle circulation in the substrate is useful though. I've had good results with an undergravel filter plate under the sub, with no powerhead or airstone. I've been thinking about using a really small canister filter and in-line heater with the outlet feeding a u/g plate. Also toying with a more complex idea I haven't really worked out yet.


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## sanj (31 Mar 2012)

I was interested in using an aquarium heating mat, but I could not find any in this country. I wanted it to heat four breeding tanks instead of buying a heater for each tank. I ended up doing the latter.


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## dw1305 (31 Mar 2012)

Hi all,


> I was interested in using an aquarium heating mat, but I could not find any in this country. I wanted it to heat four breeding tanks instead of buying a heater for each tank. I ended up doing the latter.


How about this one,  IP67 rated:


> Biogreen HMTA060-120/GB Aluminium Heatmat includes Thermostat



cheers Darrel


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## plantbrain (1 Apr 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Heating cables & mats were most definitely promoted as an aid for planted tanks.
> The idea was the cable created a very slow circulation current within the substrate drawing down nutrients & the mats simply kept the roots warm.
> I can also remember a heating tube that actually ran tank water via a powerhead through an 3/8 tube placed under the substrate.
> I guesse things just come & go in fads, I still use heating mats under two immersed set ups.



I used Reverse flow UG filters made from PVC pipe, actually CPVC which is smaller yet, this did fine, but I turned them off, the plants still did fine, also did the same with Heat cables to illustrate the lack of any benefit.

Simple test to solve the issue.

Seedlings need optimal temps to germinate and since terrarium and terrestrial plants cannot use an aquarium water heater........since.........they in fact lack water......this same claim was aplied very incorrectly to aquatic plants, but we raise cuttings, not seedlings and we already use heaters.

Once plants are in the soil, sand etc...they pump massive amounts of O2 to the root zone rhizosphere.
Cross sections of aquatic plants are pipes used to pipe O2 down there. The plants themselves influence circulation, we/they do not need any extra help. 

You can also use a Redox probes to measure slow circulation at various sediment depths and use this as a measure of optimal sediment conditions.

If you want to measure flow rates, another tool would be using Rhodamine dye and a spectrophotometer and take syringe samples out at different locations/depths over time.

There's 4-5 ways to answer the question, the most obvious is simply turn off the cables and see what happens.
We have little choice if it gets hot, so most of the summer, the cables were shut off. Plants grow faster at higher temps, so temp must be watched and accounted for.

MANY DID THIS AND SAW NO DIFFERENCE IN PLANT GROWTH/HEALTH.
Next back peddling step that cable proponents went with was it provides "long term stability" to planted tanks, well, so does a larger filter, so does an aquarist who is not as lazy and is willing to take better care of the tank, so is a good CO2 system, etc.........many things provide long term stability. A lack of stability is not caused by a lack of heater cables in any case I've ever seen. The most stable bullet proof tanks I've had used soil or plain sand......nothing else. 7-10 years without issues.

The 180 Gal planted tank uses ADA AS alone, nothing else and it's doing as good as ever.
No algae issues, it's had problems here or there,and changes.......... but nothing related to sediment. I would be lying and dishonest if I said I think there is something to heater cables, I've looked, and spent a lot of time on them and have methods to test and measure them.

Seedling trays, terrariums? Sure, you cannot use stick heaters since there is no water column


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## Aqua sobriquet (5 Apr 2012)

Thanks for all the input guys. It's a shame we got a little off topic by bringing up in-tank heating cables but it happens sometimes ...  :? Now you mention it I'm pretty sure I had an Ultratherm unit. As a point of interest my old Aquarium was 36" x 18" x 23" and open topped. The heating mat I used was just under 36" x 12" but I never had a problem with it keeping temp!


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## dean (20 Apr 2012)

My son has a gecko who is getting on a bit and he has a heat mate under the 2ft tank, I'll get it all back when the gecko has gone and give it a try, no idea when 
I was also wondering if I could use a reptile hear mate under a few small container for betta's has anyone done this?


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## ian_m (20 Apr 2012)

JBL still sell heating cables aimed for plants.
http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/4387/jbl-protemp-basis-250

And available in UK here.
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/fish/technic_and_accessories/heating/jbl/13259

Interestingly it says gravel only as sand won't allow water circulation and is only 20W so really only enough power to heat substrate.


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## dw1305 (21 Apr 2012)

Hi all,
If you want water resistant cables to go under a tank, vivarium, propagator etc. (rather than the IP88 ones to go in the tank) "Forttex-systems" on Ebay <http://stores.ebay.co.uk/forttexsystems> sell both cables and thermostats at very reasonable prices.

cheers Darrel


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## Iain Sutherland (21 Apr 2012)

Ive often considered the reptile mats to go under my nano as it has a HOB so cant go inline.  However dont seem to be able to find any that will get a tank to a consistant 23/24c and the propigator mats ive seen only go from 5-11c.

This seems like a no brainer for the nano market unless im missing something??


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## Aqua sobriquet (21 Apr 2012)

Yes, it is a no brainier. I've contacted the manufacturers of the mat I used for some advice.

Update: email I sent bounced back so I need to do some detective work. Maybe the company that made the Ultratherm mat I used is no longer trading.

The address on the website was: ecoheating.sys@btinternet.com

At the bottom of this page on the Flexel website it actually mentions Aquarium heating.

http://www.ultratherm.co.uk/applications.html


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## Aqua sobriquet (21 Apr 2012)

This is the current range. I'm pretty sure I used the 35" x 11"  55 watt model on my 50 gallon tank.

http://www.exotic-pets.co.uk/ultratherm-heat-mats.html

Does this sound about right power wise considering it's heating virtually the whole base of the tank?


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## sparkyweasel (22 Apr 2012)

The aquarium ones were higher powered than the same size vivarium ones.


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## Aqua sobriquet (22 Apr 2012)

These are more powerful but not perhaps the most useful range of sizes.

http://www.somhydro.co.uk/category.asp?cid=171

This should do me though for a 40 gallon tank.

http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/ultrath ... 2363-p.asp


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## dean (28 Apr 2012)

do vivs have thermometers to control the heat mats?
or are they preset like a nano heater?


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## dean (28 Apr 2012)

just spoken to owner of our local lizard lounge was says that Habistat make a heat mat that 11 inches square [£17 great size for a small cube] and it should keep an aquarium at a constant temperature 
BUT he would advise the use of a thermostate [£30]


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2012)

Hi all,
Dean, you need a separate thermostat. Iif you used the HG one <http://www.hg-hydroponics.co.uk/digital-thermostat-1489-p.asp> it would be £50 & p+p for the heat mat and thermostat. 

The "Forttex systems" link earlier in the thread has this thermostat - "ATC-200 DIGITAL THERMOSTAT" for £25 + p&p.

cheers Darrel


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## Aqua sobriquet (28 Apr 2012)

Don't know about the vivarium mats but I did see a low power "Pet pad" recently that does not require one. Guess it partly depends on the wattage?

My 30" x 14" 120 watt mat has arrived together with an STC 1000 Digital thermostat so all I need to sort out is a tank to put it under  :  

Heat Mat was £17.99 (plus post) and the thermostat was £19.50. You can get identical thermostats from £12.50 on eBay but I paid the extra to get it a bit quicker from a UK supplier.


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## foxfish (29 Apr 2012)

I just saw this heating cable for sale!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sera-computer ... 3cc331e5a9


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## dean (29 Apr 2012)

£127 omg no wonder they are not in common use


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