# Red ramshorn  breeding issues.



## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hello
Recently converted my modified betta duo tank to a snail farm.Sand substrate. Matured filter lots of plants.No algae unfortunately even with full ei and long bright light period and no CO 2.
Stocked it with 80-100 ish medium sized snails and feed heavy on a daily basis.For some reason despite all the eggs there seems to have only very little  newly hatched  transparent babys  but none  teenagers.There are few big planarias and a bit of hydra in the tank.Wandered if they are being eaten by adults or planaria and hydra or starving despite my heavy feeling routine.
Can anyone advice how to improve the survival rate of the babys as I need them for my puffers.
Regards Konsa


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## zozo (6 Apr 2017)

Planaria are meat eaters, reportedly feed of snails too.. Unfortunately treating against planaria likely will kill all your snails as well. You could try to feed the snails with extra lettuce leaves. They love it.. 

Planaria are mainly nocturnal. hate light and live in the substrate.. If you see a few adult at daylight, you can bet your life on it that you have a huge population hidden in the substrate..


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hi 
The funny bit is that I havent seen any small planaria just the beasty 1-1.5cm ones that come out when I feed pellets.
I feed the snails lots of  blanched spinach and kale plus hikari crab cuisine and tetra tabs for little bits to accumulate on the surface of plants for the babys.It seem the sand is too fine for the planaria to get inside but they have lots of other places to get hidden..Tried planaria trap with no success.Thinking to get the big snails out treat with no planaria and the to put them back in after the water change.
Regards Konsa


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## zozo (6 Apr 2017)

I lately reated a little tank with no planaria, it works like a treat regarding planaria.. I had ramshorn in it, non survived, also the Melanoides tuberculata died. The only snail in there surviving it is the Physa acuta.. Actualy all snails worth having if you keep puffers.. I had pea puffers and they don't mind what snail you give them, they kill 'm all. I had Lymnaea stagnalis 6 times bigger than the puffer, managed to kill it within few weeks. Kept biting chunks out of it every time it passed. Also a snail that breeds like wild fire.


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Thank you zozo.

Had the no planaria for ages but still havent used it.Looks like thats the best option for me is to treat the tank.Will I have to treat once and then retreat few weeks later or it will kill the eggs too with the first treatment 
Regards Konsa


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## zozo (6 Apr 2017)

I used it a few times and only for the recomended 3 days.. It will kill all, after that is depends on what you feed.. If you feed for example froozen food, that's how planaria ends up in your tank, it contains planaria eggs, planaria obviously lives at the life food farms. Or if you exchange plants regularly, you can get planaria from the LFS.

In my case i transfered it from one tank to another, because i regularly feed froozen bloodworms. The litle tank i have only plants and snails, but the exchanging plants did it.. Anyway after treating one time i don't see any planaria for months.. Not seeing doesn't mean not having but that is ok with me. Treating twice is a waste in my case because i introduce them anyway.. Treating once a year, proved to be enough for me. After all a reasonable population of planaria isn't bad as long it doesn't become a unsightly pest or as in your case maybe preventing the snails from breeding optimaly..

But if you are pretty sure you wont reintroduce them yourself you could treat again after a week or 2..


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hi 
I dont feed live or frozen foods in any of my tanks anymore and dont transfer plants too.Do pretty sure wont reintroduce them.
Thanks for the info pretty sure will get rid of them soon


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## dw1305 (6 Apr 2017)

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> There are few big planarias and a bit of hydra in the tank.


Panacur (Fenbendazole) will <"kill Planaria and Hydra"> without killing all the snails. You can buy it cheaply as a granule for treating dogs and cats etc. 

Do you have soft water? If you do it would be worth adding a calcium source, Cuttle "bone" is good, and they sell them widely for Tortoises, Budgerigars etc. 

cheers Darrel


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hi Darrel
You say will not kill all the snaills.Will there be any snail deaths.Does Panacur (Fenbendazole) affect the snails at all?
My water is not that soft.Havent really tested it tho but feed them calcium rich pellets anyway and my snails are already double in size with beautiful and healthy shells.Just no new ones after a month and a half.There are freshly hatched ones but it seems they cant make it.Will get rid of the planaria and hydra and then if they still cant make it will reduce the number of the parents its only 20 ish liter tank tho.There are no chances of any algae to get hold at all.I use them to clean the black beard  and gsa of my buces which are on lava rocks and can move them arround.For that reason will treat all my 3 tanks asap
Regards Konsa


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## dw1305 (6 Apr 2017)

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> Will there be any snail deaths.Does Panacur (Fenbendazole) affect the snails at all?


I used it at the dosage suggested in the Planet Inverts link and it didn't kill any of the snails. 

I have _Physella acuta, _MTS and Red Ramshorns, but apparently it does kill Nerites etc.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (6 Apr 2017)

dw1305 said:


> I used it at the dosage suggested in the Planet Inverts link and it didn't kill any of the snails.



I need to be at the vet next week for Flee putty..  I'll ask for it. I see they have only pills and paste.. Would the paste be any good to mix with water??


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hi Darrel 
 I only have red ramshorn snails in my tank.
If im using the Panacur  granules 22.2%
what is the dosage gram per liter of water.
Regards Konsa


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## TheBubblingScot (6 Apr 2017)

I found my rams have bred like mad in my algae ridden old planted tank to the point they have cleaned all the algae and have slowed down due to lack of food.  At cooler temps they just don't breed, but in a warm tank they are happy to multiply.
I feed mine standard off the shelf tropical fish food and they hoover it all up over night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Konsa (6 Apr 2017)

Hi
Yes the ramshorns are indeed very prolific breeders if provided with a stable food sorce and tropical temperature.I keep mine  at 25C
I have problem with them only in their dedicated tank.In the puffer to be tank(75l)that I setup a month ago with new redmoor root that was leeching like mad and creating good stable biofilm i introduced only 10 snails to help cleaning  and have lots of new ones of different sizes.
I was wondering if the actual tank volume is limiting the grouth of the population as I have 100 ish snails in 20l of water or as zozo confirmed the big planarias are eating the little ones as I see newly hatched on daily basis. 
The course of action will be treatment of the tank.Will deside what to use as have No planaria at home (Remove the snails before treatment  )or to buy the Panacur and leave them in.
Thanks to all
Regards Konsa


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## dw1305 (7 Apr 2017)

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> If im using the Panacur granules 22.2% what is the dosage gram per liter of water.


Mine is the 22% Fenbendazole as well.

It is a really low dosage, you need 0.1g in 38 litres (~10 American gallons). I crushed it up in a pestle and mortar and weighed it out on a scientific balance. I used 0.2g on a 60 x 30 x 38cm tank.

If you don't have a balance I would crush up the full 1g satchet, and then subdivide it into the appropriate number of equally sized divisions by eye (so into 5 piles for a tank of my size).

I stored mine in the fridge in a <"specimen tube"> (they were to hand in the lab. where the balance is), but any small container should do.

cheers Darrel


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## Konsa (7 Apr 2017)

Hi Darrel 
Thanks for the useful info and advice.You are such a knowledgeable man and have my respect for all your contribution to the forum 
Regards Konsa


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## sciencefiction (7 Apr 2017)

TheBubblingScot said:


> At cooler temps they just don't breed, but in a warm tank they are happy to multiply.



I have a small tank with snails and shrimp that has been unheated for a couple of years. The water temp during the winter and even now goes down to 10C-12C. Ramshorns have no problem breeding/living in low temps. Perhaps I'd have more of them if the tank stayed warmer. The MTS though do not do that well in an unheated tank. I am not sure I've got too many left. When the tank was heated, I had lots of them. Because the tank had/has no fish, they used to come out for dinner just like any other water pet although they never did so in my tanks with fish. 

I also have a heated tank with shrimp. It is also extremely low on snails because large shrimp population outcompetes snails each time. If one has other critters, whether the planaria is capable of killing baby snails or not, I am not sure, although very likely, it is also possible it gets to the food faster than baby snails. Ramshorns are not the fastest of all of them to breed. MTS are better as they give birth to live ones. The planaria is very likely eating ramshorn snail eggs though, if nothing else.


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## Konsa (7 Apr 2017)

Hi
I feed tetra tabs which are broken down by the spraybar and carried away all over the tank for the babies as not only the planaria are fast but the parent snails are monsters and group together to fight for the food.Pretty sure i feed enough tho.
Mts are no good for puffers according to my research  as shells are too hard and can cause in breaking of the beak and then the fish unable to feed will starve


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## sciencefiction (7 Apr 2017)

Yes, I've read the same. I also read that clown loaches can't get to Malaysian trumpets because of the hard shell but my group wiped a 5f tank full of all sorts of snails, including MTSs. Only the shrimp survived probably because they can move fast. When I broke the tank down and took out the substrate I did not find live snails.  If not MTSs why not try the common pond snails that one inevitably gets early or later.  They breed way faster than ramshorns. Ramshorns are just not fast breeding. I've had them for many years and they were always the fewest of all the types I've kept.


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## Konsa (8 Apr 2017)

Hi 
I was thinking about pond snails too.But in mind tank size desided to go for the ramshorns.  In fact I have  5  little ones in yesterday I saw them  in lfs and bought them.
As for the clown loaches  U are 100% right.When I used to keep them years ago no snail survived
Regards Konsa


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## Konsa (24 Apr 2017)

Hi all
Just a quick update.After treatment with Panacur all tanks I have are Hydra and Planaria free.No snail shrimp casualties.
The snail farm is doing well with a large numbers af little snails doing well and growing fast.
Massive tanks to everyone for the help and advice 
Regards Konsa


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