# Osmocote plus disaster



## Happi (5 Mar 2022)

I was currently testing the osmocote plus for over the month or so, I added handful of osmocote deep into the aqua soil just to see what will happen. I already knew what was likely to happen because I have done a similar experiment before. But this one was more intense compare to the last one. 

First week or two nothing happened because TDS was still reading low 30s then it started to go up, it was 150 over night and algae startred to appear eventually, NH4 and NO3 reading were quite off the chart. 

As you can see the tank was taken over by algae and cyanobacteria. The tank was still reading high TDS after multiple water changes, only recently the TDS shows less Increase and there appear to be less algae. 

I did not add any fertilizer to the water and only used 100% RO water for this experiment. Several plant melted away during this experiment. 

In conclusion, I would recommend not to use root tabs, maybe one pellet here and there is fine but I don't recommend adding hand full. This experiment was mainly just to show you guys what to expect. 

Now I have two choices, either wait for osmocote to complete its realese or redo the entire tank. The aqua soil must be completely charged with nutrients though 😄


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## erwin123 (5 Mar 2022)

Happi said:


> In conclusion, I would recommend not to use root tabs, maybe one pellet here and there is fine but I don't recommend adding hand full. This experiment was mainly just to show you guys what to expect.


yes there have been 2 recent threads about Tropica root tabs causing ammonia spikes...

I agree that one hand full of osmocote into a tank of that size, all at once, is a bit too much... though Rotala Kill Tank used 1 pound of osmocote i believe
2hr aquarist recommends 1 pellet per square inch.
Even then, you don't need to add it all at once.
You can add a little bit every week for 4 weeks, till you hit your target amount.
Then repeat every 3 months.

I am using 2 different brands of osmocote clones for a few months without any issue. 
Plantacote Triple (NPK only, no trace)
Starxcote (NPK+trace)


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## MirandaB (5 Mar 2022)

Is that the one that has a 6 month release period under normal terrestrial conditions........16-18 month might have been better to try?
I think I'd stick with it now readings are starting to drop.


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## erwin123 (5 Mar 2022)

Here's the release curve that I've posted elsewhere.


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## Happi (5 Mar 2022)

@erwin123
I did this experiment mainly targeting the downside of using the osmocote especially in excessive amounts. Far as NH4 goes it doesn't scare me, I normally add urea and NH4 to my liquid dosing. But this experiment is mainly to help those to make them aware potential risk of osmocote Overdosing. 

If you are adding urea or NH4 in your liquid fertilizer there is no need to add root tabs of any kinds at all. I actually have always strongly advice against using root tabs from very beginning.

These roots tabs are not only releasing Nh4 and NO3 but all the other nutrients as well. I did this experiment for demonstration for public or people of this forum and I was fully aware of the outcome from beginning. Am not here to debate on weather 1 pellet is safe or beneficial but I was here to make people aware of potential outcome of overdosing it.


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## Happi (5 Mar 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Here's the release curve that I've posted elsewhere.


Yes I think some one else also posted a link about this. I think I was more encouraged to do this experiment afterwards. In the past it took about two weeks or so for the TDS to go up and NH4 NO3 reading to go up rapidly. It's fairly accurate with those graphs you posted.


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## erwin123 (5 Mar 2022)

Happi said:


> Am not here to debate on weather 1 pellet is safe or beneficial but I was here to make people aware of potential outcome of overdosing it.


To help with the awareness, here are some recent threads on overdosing of root tabs:








						Bubbles forming foam
					

So I'm setting up a new aquarium. I've filled it up till around 1/3 of its height and left it overnight. This morning I noticed that bubbles coming from my plenum are forming the foam in the pictures I've attached. The foam doesn't feel soapy to the touch and dissolved as soon as I pick it up in...



					www.ukaps.org
				











						Tropica root tabs and surface film
					

Hi all, I added root tabs yesterday evening during my weekly routine. Tropica type. After I got home today I noted a hazy hue in my tank, drop checker more yellow than normal and I’ll my Oto catfish were stationary. When I angled my spray bar up to create more gas exchange I noted bubbles...



					www.ukaps.org
				




Here's the guide I followed:








						How to use osmocote for substrate in planted aquarium
					

Fresh aquasoil such as ADA aquasoil contain high amounts of ammonia. This is very effective for plant growth, however, it does deplete over time. Spiking the substrate with root fertilizers such as osmocote is an easy way to enrich aquasoil with nutrients.




					www.2hraquarist.com


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## Hanuman (5 Mar 2022)

I used osmocote in the past in small quantities in glass cups to grow individual plants but I stopped using it not because it's not effective but because then you end up with some empty yellow shells of osmotoce in the tank which are very unsightly. And because I like to recycle my soil, I had to hand pick those shells which was annoying.


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## Garuf (5 Mar 2022)

It’s all very interesting but tell me about that filter outlet/set up. It looks exactly what I’m trying to find for the nano reef project I’m hoarding for.


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## plantnoobdude (5 Mar 2022)

I"ve had same experience, added a small amount of capsules to my tank, maybe 2 root tabs worth.  after that lots of hair algae, greyish filamentous algae, and no3 readings through the roof.


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## Wookii (5 Mar 2022)

Another me too post here. I’ve been almost completely algae free in my low tech tank for over a year. I’ve never had any algae on the glass. 

I decided a month or so ago to add a couple of Tropica root tabs beneath a couple of crypts to try and give them a boost. A week later and I’ve got algae on the glass and most of the epiphytes.

I won’t be using the Tropica tabs again.


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## Garuf (5 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> Another me too post here. I’ve been almost completely algae free in my low tech tank for over a year. I’ve never had any algae on the glass.
> 
> I decided a month or so ago to add a couple of Tropica root tabs beneath a couple of crypts to try and give them a boost. A week later and I’ve got algae on the glass and most of the epiphytes.
> 
> I won’t be using the Tropica tabs again.


Do you think that it’s a quantity or a quality issue? 
I’ve got a pack I was planning on using as a diy powersand.


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## dw1305 (5 Mar 2022)

Hi all,


plantnoobdude said:


> I"ve had same experience, added a small amount of capsules to my tank, maybe 2 root tabs worth


I'm really <"wary now">.  I was going to experiment with some more <"DIY clay fertiliser balls">, but I've never managed to re-find the "Fritted trace elements"  <"from this thread"> and I eventually decided that for my tanks (I don't rescape them or disturb the substrate ) feeding the water column was fine. 

cheers Darrel


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## Karmicnull (5 Mar 2022)

Given that Vin swore by his Osmocote Kill Tank, is the main difference that he capped his super-rich substrate with 2 inches of inert gravel, minimising the amount of nutrient leaching into the water column?


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## Hanuman (5 Mar 2022)

Garuf said:


> Do you think that it’s a quantity or a quality issue?


Question is not directed to me but I can tell you with confidence the issue is the osmocote/root tabs releasing large amounts of ammonia and whatever is in it  in the water column. The more you add the worse it is. Hence why it's always recommended to add minimal amounts and put them deep in the substrate to prevent excessive leeching in the water colum. For example for my erios I used to add maybe 1 or 2 balls max under each of them. That's more than enough.


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## dw1305 (5 Mar 2022)

Hi all,


Karmicnull said:


> is the main difference that he capped his super-rich substrate with 2 inches of inert gravel, minimising the amount of nutrient leaching into the water column?


I'm sure that this will have slowed release, but I'm not sure how much. This is because the <"TAN, ammonia (NH3) / ammonium (NH4+)"> is a gas / monovalent ion and it won't be bound by <"any CEC in the substrate">, so potentially you could just end up with a dump into the tank water that @erwin123 references.

That would be my worry, you are back into Donald Rumsfeld territory with a lot of <"_unknown unknowns_">.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (5 Mar 2022)

Garuf said:


> Do you think that it’s a quantity or a quality issue?
> I’ve got a pack I was planning on using as a diy powersand.



I think the main issue is:



Hanuman said:


> the osmocote/root tabs releasing large amounts of ammonia and whatever is in it in the water column.



Combined with a lack of:



Karmicnull said:


> inert gravel, minimising the amount of nutrient leaching into the water column?




So I just don’t think they work well in a normal soil substrate tank unless they are VERY deep.

Capped with plenty of fine gravel or sand and they might be fine, but I just think they aren’t designed for use in an aquatic substrate and dissolve too quickly ending up in the water column.

I have used other solid root tabs such as the Seachem ones (though I appreciate they don’t contain many of the same salts), without the same issues because I think they are made to break down slower once submerged.


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## erwin123 (5 Mar 2022)

To manage the risk. I started with small amounts... then I monitored my shrimp and TDS as I continued to add osmocote to my substrate.

Apart from Osmocote, I have also tried freezing ice cubes of EDDHA-Fe and adding them to the substrate. I've added equivalent of 0.2ppm to my substrate without any visible water staining (I've read that EDDHA-Fe stains water at concentrations as low as 0.1ppm). This suggests that enough of the EDDHA-Fe is kept in the substrate to prevent it from staining the water?


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## Happi (5 Mar 2022)

I already covered this Root feeding vs water column approach in one of the other thread. the root feeding ultimately ends up becoming a water Colum dosing, depending on how much root tabs you add  the end results is always the same, it mostly ends up in the water. if the end results is adding NH4/Urea in the water why add root tabs then? just add some Urea/NH4 to your liquid fertilizer where you have much better control and that is exactly how I been feeding my plants. Honestly, I have always had more issues while using root tabs vs not adding them at all, I am still going on hold my ground on that aquatic plant mainly benefit from water Colum dosing, very little from root feeding.


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## erwin123 (5 Mar 2022)

Happi said:


> I already covered this Root feeding vs water column approach in one of the other thread. the root feeding ultimately ends up becoming a water Colum dosing, depending on how much root tabs you add  the end results is always the same, it mostly ends up in the water. if the end results is adding NH4/Urea in the water why add root tabs then? just add some Urea/NH4 to your liquid fertilizer where you have much better control and that is exactly how I been feeding my plants. Honestly, I have always had more issues while using root tabs vs not adding them at all, I am still going on hold my ground on that aquatic plant mainly benefit from water Colum dosing, very little from root feeding.


Sure, there's always room for different ways to approach how to feed plants 

Vin in his presentation said that for his Rotala Kill Tank, he had his water column nitrate level tested by some university friend with expensive equipment and it was 0 nitrates?... and he had like 1 pound of osmocote in his substrate or something like that?


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## Happi (5 Mar 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Sure, there's always room for difference of opinion.
> 
> Vin in his presentation said that for his Rotala Kill Tank, he had his water column nitrate level tested by some university friend with expensive equipment and it was 0 nitrates?


yes I read that too, but so far I have seen people added these in deep substrate and even sand and still had the reading go off the Chart. not sure if his substrate was really deep more than 4+ inches or so, in deeper substrate the NO3 is usually converted into Nitrogen Gas rather than releasing it into water as NO3. if his reading were truly 0 ppm NO3, this strongly suggest whatever I just mentioned, because otherwise you will never ever find a reading of 0 ppm NO3 in aquarium.

I believe Vin experiment was to demonstrate that root feeding was the way to go to grow those plants properly, but I demonstrated that you can grow them  without root feeding and with lean or even higher but proper dosing. the experiment were posted in the thread "lean dosing Pro vs Cons"

I strongly believe the results he was seeing was truly due to lean dosing rather than root feeding. if you were to setup a inert substrate aquarium and dose lean the end result would be similar to Vin. if you were to use aqua soil without root feeding and dose lean in the water the end results again would be the same. the major players are NH4/Urea that are contributing most of the good results here.

but with excess root tabs you are looking for lot of issues, if we recommended 1 root tabs for everyone's tank, the end results is not going to be same for everyone.


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## Maf 2500 (5 Mar 2022)

There is no way to control the release from these balls in the aquatic environment and therefore the risk of rolling the dice is too much for me to contemplate.


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## Ria95 (5 Mar 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm sure that this will have slowed release, but I'm not sure how much. This is because the <"TAN, ammonia (NH3) / ammonium (NH4+)"> is a gas / monovalent ion and it won't be bound by <"any CEC in the substrate">, so potentially you could just end up with a dump into the tank water that erwin123 references.
> 
> ...



Quite a lot of the osmocote ends up in the water column. There is this controlled experiment with osmocote covered by 5 cm of sand vs not covered. I've linked to it in a previous thread, sorry for the repetition IntuitiveAqua.net | Knowledge Experience Intuition






It seems that the nutrients kept releasing for around 6 months and indeed the sand just slowed things down a bit. It's difficult to determine from Vin's tank what and how much the soil contributed to the water column.  It's a good journal but there are very few water values given in his journal, his tank was also full of algae at the start, water change schedules, tank maturing over time ... 

You can see it in the graph from the site how  there is already nitrification starting to shift ammonia into nitrate in A tank. Same can happen in tanks with plants. Plants and algae can also consume the nutrients as soon as they are available or roots 'intercepting' the nutrients in the best scenario.  It's clear however that  a sand cap, much less a gravel cap, isn't that great to keep the nutrients only available for the plant roots.

Bottom line  you are right, you end up with a black box and  with a hard to remove  long-term nutrient source.


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## Hanuman (6 Mar 2022)

Most plants can grow purely with water dosing fertilisations and I think Vin, Tom Barr and a few other have demonstrated that many times over. However, if I remember well what I read at that time is that a few plant species will prefer root feeding, and in general, root feeding provides some benefits even for plants that can grow fine without it.

This said, I can give you one instance of a plant where root feeding seems preferred, or at least where the root mass is required for the plant to expand. So this technically is not necessarily a preference for root feeding but I think it has some relation. That's the case of Blyxa japonica and I would suspect for other Blyxa sps. I have kept B. Japonica for nearly over 2 years wedged against the aquarium glass and some plastic tube with plenty of fert, CO2 and light. No substrate. The plant never really grew yet never died but kept producing offspring. Roots were notoriously small and never grew beyond 2-3 cm max. Once planted that plant became a monster and root system...well, we all know what B. Japonica root system is like. I would need to experiment on planting on pure sand and see how that goes but I doubt it will thrive as well as on a rich substrate.
Erios are also plants that in my experience will do much better when substrate is rich. E. Ratnagicirium for instance or E. Udonthani and others which I have grown extensively have shown to me that without a rich soil it's the end of them. E. Ratnagicirium is particularly sensitive.

Overall I think plants no matter wether they are comfortable with column dosing or not will always benefit from also being fed from roots.


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## erwin123 (6 Mar 2022)

Hanuman said:


> This said, I can give you one instance of a plant where root feeding seems preferred, or at least where the root mass is required for the plant to expand. So this technically is not necessarily a preference for root feeding but I think it has some relation. That's the case of Blyxa japonica and I would suspect for other Blyxa sps. I have kept B. Japonica for nearly over 2 years wedged against the aquarium glass and some plastic tube with plenty of fert, CO2 and light. No substrate. The plant never really grew yet never died but kept producing offspring. Roots were notoriously small and never grew beyond 2-3 cm max. Once planted that plant became a monster and root system...well, we all know what B. Japonica root system is like. I would need to experiment on planting on pure sand and see how that goes but I doubt it will thrive as well as on a rich substrate.
> Erios are also plants that in my experience will do much better when substrate is rich. E. Ratnagicirium for instance or E. Udonthani and others which I have grown extensively have shown to me that without a rich soil it's the end of them. E. Ratnagicirium is particularly sensitive.















Here are a couple of pics of my Erios and their root systems (E. 'Vietnam' , E 'Japan, E Cinerum).
I'm  not saying that they can't grow fine with water column dosing, but the presence of osmocote in substrate does seem to promote the growth of their root system?


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## Hanuman (6 Mar 2022)

erwin123 said:


> I'm not saying that they can't grow fine with water column dosing, but the presence of osmocote in substrate does seem to promote the growth of their root system?


That's basically what I think. Erios in my experience will do much better in a rich substrate. When substrate depletes or is poor to start with they'll do poorly or possibly die even if you have heavy column fertilisation. From left to right (E. Lineare, Selection of E. Lineare, E. Vietnam, E. Udonthani (Cinerum), E. Quinquangulare.


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## Happi (6 Mar 2022)

@Hanuman 
If you were to add urea in your liquid fertilizer even with depleted soil, this plant will grow like crazy.


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## Hanuman (6 Mar 2022)

A test to be done! Some time ago I wanted to setup a shallow tank with only erios but the tank came, glass job was sh***ty so I returned the tank.


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## eminor (29 Sep 2022)

Too bad 2hr aquarist removed his usefull article on how to use osmocote mainly to sell his product, business after all, can't blame him, no way to get it back ?


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## erwin123 (29 Sep 2022)

eminor said:


> Too bad 2hr aquarist removed his usefull article on how to use osmocote mainly to sell his product, business after all, can't blame him, no way to get it back ?



no problem,  i summarise for you:

(1) use the NPK version
(2) Use tweezer to add 1 pellet per square inch

That's it.

My own take on this is that not all plants need osmocote, you should just add 1-2 pellets per square inch under the more difficult plants that may need the extra help. Easy and medium plants will all do fine with water column dosing.

There are additional techniques that Dennis didn't share in his article such as the fact that instead of using tweezers to plant in the general area of the plant, I understand that he will wrap the osmocote pellet(s) among the root system.


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## eminor (29 Sep 2022)

erwin123 said:


> no problem,  i summarise for you:
> 
> (1) use the NPK version
> (2) Use tweezer to add 1 pellet per square inch
> ...


thx, how can you wrap  pellet in the root system, i mean the best i can do is put the pellet in the bottom just below the plant ? if i want to wrap i'll make a huge ammonia spike ?

Does plant know when there's new and lots of nutrients nearby, can they make root to get the food ?

Also once every nutrients in the pellet are used, what the pellet become ? does she stay in place ?  thx so much


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## erwin123 (30 Sep 2022)

Propagating Eriocaulon species
					

Eriocaulon species generally prefer a combination of soft water (<2dKH) and rich soil. Some Eriocaulons naturally develop side shoots as they grow large. They can also be propagated by splitting a large plant in half. Eriocaulon ratnagiricum, Eriocaulon quinquangulare are both popular Erios that...




					www.2hraquarist.com
				








Every few months (maybe Dennis farm tank its only a few weeks), you will have to uproot your valuable Eriocaulons in order split them up. Some you sell, some you replant. Before replanting, I heard that Dennis will wrap the osmocote pellets within the root system. Given the prices you can sell the more exotic Erios for, I guess its worth the extra effort.

I might be wrong, but the Erio on the left, there is an osmocote pellet visible.

Anything else,  using a tweezer in the general area should be good enough.

The osmocote shells remain. so when you pull out the plant, there might be osmocote shells stuck within the root system, just clean up the roots and toss the pellets.


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## Libba (30 Sep 2022)

I like the ADA Bottom Plus root tabs. I think they are just clay that has been soaked in ammonia then pressed into a pill.


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## Hanuman (30 Sep 2022)

eminor said:


> Too bad 2hr aquarist removed his usefull article on how to use osmocote mainly to sell his product, business after all, can't blame him, no way to get it back ?


Unfortunately for him, the Web never forgets anyone that has interacted with it.








						How to use osmocote for substrate in planted aquarium
					

Fresh aquasoil such as ADA aquasoil contain high amounts of ammonia. This is very effective for plant growth, however, it does deplete over time. Spiking the substrate with root fertilizers such as osmocote is an easy way to enrich aquasoil with nutrients.




					web.archive.org
				



This said, he doesn't say much that we don't know at this stage.


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## eminor (30 Sep 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Propagating Eriocaulon species
> 
> 
> Eriocaulon species generally prefer a combination of soft water (<2dKH) and rich soil. Some Eriocaulons naturally develop side shoots as they grow large. They can also be propagated by splitting a large plant in half. Eriocaulon ratnagiricum, Eriocaulon quinquangulare are both popular Erios that...
> ...



Yes it's looks like an osmocote pellet, from now, when i'll buy a plant i'll put one or two balls in the root before planting, that's amazing. Could be the way for my nemesis plant, myriophyllum tuberculatum



Hanuman said:


> Unfortunately for him, the Web never forgets anyone that has interacted with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



amazing thx, miss a bit of it but as you said now we know how to do it =)


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## Happi (5 Oct 2022)

At some point things got slightly better, but plant would start to melt randomly if water wasn't changed frequently, the nutrients buildup still continued but they were not as bad compared to before. The tank remained very unstable despite doing several water changes and it was finally taken down. So I ended that experiment, this was one of the last picture taken before tearing it down.


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