# Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar "UP DATE"



## Dolly Sprint 16v (5 Apr 2009)

Gang@ukaps

Any thoughts of which is the best - I am currently using an Eheim sprinkle bar with my 2080 with is forcing my tall plants towards the front of the tank and my rummies have to swim with the heads pointing upwards @ approx. 70 degrees, obviously to beat the flow, if I fitting lily pipe would this reduce the amount of pressure that the water is being returned into the tank ie less force.

Paul.


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## John Starkey (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Hi,
i would go with lily pipes if you can afford them,the best place to put then is on one end of your aquarium to the flow is more circular around the tank.
regards john.


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## JamesM (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

You can't beat spraybars imvho. If the force is a little too much, try drilling the holes a little bigger


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Guy

Thx for the replies, the problems I have are with my hood. I have to cut additional slots to allow the pipe into the tank. I have moved my outlet pipe to the middle minus the sprinkle bar, now the water flow seems better and I have not lost any pressure. Pics attached so you can see the issues I have. 

The hood in not in the correct position because if I go down the line of lily pipes I need to cut another slot with the hood.










Regards
paul.


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## Nelson (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

hi paul,
why don't you take the old filter off,if you're not using it still.i thought you got different lights :?: .
neil


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## altaaffe (5 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Having used both I prefer spray bars now, diameter of the holes on the bars is important though, I've got a spray bar where the holes are too wide and nothing is comes out of the end of the bar.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Neale 

I had thought of changing my lighting system which would remove all the articles on the tank top. After careful consideration I decided against the change due to the tank being open to the elements ie dust particles, air bourne dirt and espically in our house - dog hairs as we have Rough Collie "Lassie collie" and those hairs are very long. 


The box that I have cut held aqua one wet and dry filter system of which I do not use. The housing infront of that contains all my lights. The two outer pipes are my water inlets and the middle one which was at the end of the tank until yesterday was next to an inlet and the outlet with sprinkle bar attached. Now I have move the inlet pipe to the middle, removed the sprinkle bar and twisted the elbow around so the water now flows to the front of the tank in one big steam rather than x amount of streams my plants are now standing straight upish. I cannot fit lily pipes at the sides due to the housing so my only option is at the back and in the middle as the pic dictates. 

I would like to know other peoples experiences with these pipes as I do not want the expense of buy pipes then finding out that they are no good.

Regards
Paul


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## Nelson (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

hi paul,
i have the same tank and see your point.i get dog and cat hairs in mine :!: .cats walk across the luminaire :!: .my light hood caught fire a while back,my dodgey wiring probably with t5 upgrade   .can't help with glassware as i'm just to clumsy and would break it  
neil


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Neil

Thx for the reply - the tanks great and I would not swap it, panaramic view is superb, but the problems are trying to improve it / getting it how you want it. 

Usally with the positioning of lily pipes allows the flow goes the fully lenght of the tank ie left to right or vice versa with mine if i fitted lily pipes the flow would go from back to front. The other way to have the water inlet pipe in the middle add a piece of solid tubing supported by a clip / suction cup which would be supported by the centre support bar, drill some hole in the tubing - straight through hole. Lets say the tubing fitted was 12" long - only drill half the length of the tubing - 6", doing this would reduce the flow at the back of the back allowing the plants to remain straight ish - but maximise the flow at the front. The only issue with this is that when you looked at the tank you would see a piece of pipe 13mm in diametre approx. 1 - 2" below the surface water - which would make it an eyesore. 

*This why i need peoples thought about lily pipes fores / against.*
Regards

Paul.


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## ceg4048 (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Hi Paul,
          Although Lily pipes are much more chic and can be effective, my preference is for spraybars, especially as the tank size increases. Check a couple of threads in the archive: 
Water flow in the planted aquarium?

Difference in drop checker readings in different positions

Cheers,


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Thx for the info - after reviewing your article regarding water flow (directional) and positioning on drop checkers I am think of buying a piece of ehiem pipe and drilling my own holes - hopefully I can buy a piece twice as long as the pipe supplied (approx. 12") and the holes will be larger. I think I need to maximise the length of the sprinkle bar - so my aim is to have the pipe as long as possible, coupled with bigger hole will reduce the amount of pressurised water being emitted from the pipe - what do you think.

Regards
Paul.


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## ceg4048 (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Well, the higher the velocity the better the conservation of energy. Not sure why you'd have to by Eheim piping when any PVC will do (and will be cheaper - and won't be green  ) but experiment starting with the stock hole sizes. More holes also reduce the velocity so a long pipe with more holes of the same size automatically reduces the exit velocity. One needs to experiment with various lengths and holes, so I'd buy cheap piping first until I figured out the configuration I wanted.

Cheers,


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## Nelson (6 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

hi,
just added an extension to my spraybar today.now 50% longer and not a whirlpool anymore.reckon this will sort your problem Paul,though my filters not as powerful as yours.
neil


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (7 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar*

Thx guys - plumbing job @ the weekend. 

Neil you have hit the nail on top the its head by saying "WHIRLPOOL". My initial thoughts were by lengthening the spray bar would reduce the amount of pressure required to emit the returning water through small holes. By increasing the hole sizes and lengthening the bar would not reduce the water flow but would reduce back pressure, allowing a smoother flow of water back into the tank rather than squirting the water back into there.

Its the same principle as a big bore exhaust pipe on your car, by increasing the diameter of the tail pipes reduces back pressure and allows the exhaust gases to flow more freely which inturn can slightly increase BHP.      

Hope this make sense.


Regards
Paul.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (10 Apr 2009)

Gang@ukaps

I have just increase the overall length of my spary bar was 16" now 30" and the has dramically reduced the whirlpool effect I was seeing, the tank is more settled and the flow seems to less severe

_*IS THIS GOOD OR BAD any thoughts*_

Regards

Paul


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## Nelson (10 Apr 2009)

hi paul,
good to hear you've got it sorted  .
neil


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (10 Apr 2009)

Neil

Thx for the reply - but I don't know whether I am doing right or wrong by having a steady flow instead of a torrent.

Regards

Paul.


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## BINKSY1973 (10 Apr 2009)

Things should be ok, as what you have done is evenly spread the flow around the tank, instead of one small area.

Where is your spray bar placed in the tank, and which direction are the holes facing?

Cheers Gordon.


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## ceg4048 (10 Apr 2009)

Hi Paul,
          Good or bad depends on whether you are able to get flow down to the substrate and whether you have achieved a nice circular current. Do the majority of the plants gently wave in the current? Can you see flow across the carpet plants? Have you positioned the spray pattern as I demonstrated  in earlier threads such that the exit flow direction is horizontal? Have you placed the bar near the surface to generate a nice surface ripple? If you reduce the exit flow velocity too much so that the answers to most of these questions is "no" then you've defeated the purpose and utility of the spraybar.

Cheers,


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (10 Apr 2009)

i am cleaning @ the moment, once I have it up and running again I will repost with pic attached - me old "sorry" mate never lets me down.

Paul


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (10 Apr 2009)

*Re: Lily Pipes V Sprinkle Bar "UP DATE" & Current status*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi Paul,
> Good or bad depends on whether you are able to get flow down to the substrate and whether you have achieved a nice circular current. Do the majority of the plants gently wave in the current? Can you see flow across the carpet plants? Have you positioned the spray pattern as I demonstrated  in earlier threads such that the exit flow direction is horizontal? Have you placed the bar near the surface to generate a nice surface ripple? If you reduce the exit flow velocity too so that the answers to most of these questions is "no" then you've defeated the purpose and utility of the spraybar.
> 
> Cheers,



Current status: there is a definite difference in water movement within the tank I can only assume this is due to the extension on the OEM spray bar I do not have any carpeting plants yet, there are some crypt and their leaves are moving very slightly. The bars are positioned approx. 1.5" to 2" below the water surface and are at an angle of 80 degrees, there is a very light displacement on the water surface. There are plenty of tiny Co2 bubble being emitted from the bar - but the majority of the bubbles are rising rather than around the tank. My personnel view is I have defeated the purpose of the bar. A different view to determine the length of the bar is: that Ehiem do numerous tests prior to releasing their products to the public and I  can only assume that to obtain the correct water displacement is to use the spray bar supplied, by adding an additional length reduced the overall performance and this is what i am doing / seeing. Back to the drawing board. Pic's attached.
















Regards

paul.


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## Nelson (10 Apr 2009)

hi paul,
i understand what you're saying but doesn't your reactor dissolve most of the co2 :?: .so you're not losing that much :!: .
i'm no expert just trying to learn.as clive said,is the flow reaching the subsrate :?: 
neil


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (10 Apr 2009)

nelson said:
			
		

> hi paul,
> i understand what you're saying but doesn't your reactor dissolve most of the co2 :?: .so you're not losing that much :!: .
> i'm no expert just trying to learn.as clive said,is the flow reaching the subsrate :?:
> neil



Neil reactor is gurgelling nicely - sounds like I am having to add more than necessary and the flow is very slow at the bottom - more like a very light breeze rather than steady breeze eg If the washing was on the line there is not enough wind to dry the clothes - I do not do the washing - that the wife job.

Regards

Paul.


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## Nelson (10 Apr 2009)

hi paul,
think you need advice from someone with more knowledge than me.if i told my BOSS about the washing i'd be in trouble  .
neil


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## ceg4048 (11 Apr 2009)

Flyfisherman said:
			
		

> ...A different view to determine the length of the bar is: that Ehiem do numerous tests prior to releasing their products to the public and I  can only assume that to obtain the correct water displacement is to use the spray bar supplied, by adding an additional length reduced the overall performance and this is what i am doing / seeing...


Umm...no, forget about that. Lets not give these Eheim people more credit than they deserve. The main problem is that the total area of your holes are too large. The 2080 has decent flow rate, even while filled to the brim with media. I've had 2080 connected to 2.5 feet of ganged Eheim spraybars and then switched to Fluval bars and in both cases the result has been very good. What size is the tank?

It's not clear at all what type of tubes you are using and what size holes are drilled. How does your modification differ from the stock bars or did you use a combination of stock bars? Did you enlargen the holes? Is the filter backpressures or are there kinks in the hoses or other obstructions?

Cheers,


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (11 Apr 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Flyfisherman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am using the original stock bar suppiled with the kit and I purchased another stock bar (Eheim) from my LFS. The holes have not been altered - standard hole. Initial was was using tetratec water return over flow pipe - but now I have refitted ehiem stock flow pipe as the noise being emitted from the water + Co2 bubbles returning to the tank was awful - probably due to its shape (square corners) stock flow pipe is more curved. As for connecting the the two spray bars I just cut a piece of their tubing and slide the tubing of the two pipes. I have had to modify the return flow pipe to allow rear entry to the tank rather than side entry (due to my hood) Cut the bottom 90 degree bend add another 90 degree bend + tubbing to join the pipes (pic attached). 






As for kinks  - no kinks in pipes, if anything my pipes are too long - i have allowed for access to the push on joint whilst I am cleaning, the last thing you want is piano string pipes (nice and tight). All in all its stock.


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## ceg4048 (13 Apr 2009)

OK, well if everything is stock then there should be plenty of energy for two joined bars with unmodified holes. The 2080 has a flow control lever. Are you certain this lever is not set to the low flow position or to an intermediate position? Are you certain that the end cap on the far tube is not leaking or missing? If not, I'd have to suspect the filter output itself. You can use tape and start taping off a number of holes to see if the velocity increases or check the output of the filter by seeing how long it takes to fill a known quantity. A 2080 packed with media should produce an actual rate of around 800 LPH so this means it should fill a 1 liter jug in about 4 to 5 seconds. If it takes much longer than that then either the pump or impeller is off or there might be blockages in the filter or in the lines.

Cheers,


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (13 Apr 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> OK, well if everything is stock then there should be plenty of energy for two joined bars with unmodified holes. The 2080 has a flow control lever. Are you certain this lever is not set to the low flow position or to an intermediate position? Are you certain that the end cap on the far tube is not leaking or missing? If not, I'd have to suspect the filter output itself. You can use tape and start taping off a number of holes to see if the velocity increases or check the output of the filter by seeing how long it takes to fill a known quantity. A 2080 packed with media should produce an actual rate of around 800 LPH so this means it should fill a 1 liter jug in about 4 to 5 seconds. If it takes much longer than that then either the pump or impeller is off or there might be blockages in the filter or in the lines.
> 
> Cheers,



My Mate 
The flow control lever is over to the left which is "ON" maximum flow, the end cap is fitted on the tube and there are no leak, the flow meter shows the flow to be approx. 7/8 of being flat out. The only reason I can think off in relation to the filter not running flat out is due to me mixture of filter media from my Ex1200 bio balls, sponges & new media from my 2080 all mixed together whilst the bacteria cultures itself, then I will remove it slowly. Today I have cut the new spray bar in half - so I am now running with a 24" bar the flow is better now - the plant leafs are not moving as fast now, more like being blown in a gentle breeze rather than a gale, this only happening two inch from the front of the glass, the rest of the tank has more of a steady / reasonable flow. I am going to leave it at that for the moment - might buy an additional bar and start taping holes up until I achieve the required flow that I want. As for lily pipes not going to bother at the moment.

Thx and regards
paul.


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