# Transparent Tank - the end



## greenink

A beginner's guide to making and learning from every mistake possible.

[EDIT Feb 2013 Here are a few shots of the tank in it's journey... so you can see where you're going.
















END OF EDIT]

Right, I'm taking the plunge, after reading lots of journals and articles on this site. And I'm hoping you can help me get it right... This first post is going to be quite long, so please stick with it for the questions at the end!

My 72l tank set-up is pretty unusual - and I hope will interest you - haven't seen anyone else on ukaps taking this route! It's mounted in the wall between the kitchen and living room - here's a view from each side:









This means it's thin (just 26cm internal from front to back, 70cm wide and 40cm deep) and needs to look good from both sides - and have a view through the tank. Which means dutch style planting is out, and the aquascaping challenge is twice as hard...


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## greenink

*The history...*

Like most beginners, I've learned the hard way over the last couple of years. My fish are generally healthy, but plants have just melted, died, been eaten, or fallen out of favour. Here are a couple of past iterations, which I'm putting up because this is going to be an entirely honest account, and I hope will show how far I've come (by the end  :? )

(Sorry about the photo quality - will improve for my future shots I promise!)

September 2009 - things just chucked in at random, no ferts, plain gravel - pretty much everything melted




September 2010 - ambitious on the planting, and a submarine which went down badly with the girlfriend (think she was right!) -  no ferts, plain gravel, pretty much everything melted




February 2011 - had sort of evolved amateur aquascaping on my own. Submarine (!) gone, external filter in place, big stone from the garden chucked in, no ferts, plain gravel, light tubes now two years old. Pretty much everything melted, or was floating on the top of the tank when I came down in the morning




At that point I was about ready to give up on plants...


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## greenink

*A whole load of problems...*

Then about a month ago I came across UKAPS and have been reading furiously, working out what I've been doing wrong. Here's my list:

1. No ferts, 20% water changes every two weeks and cleaning the biological filter media every two weeks in cold tap water.
2. No decent substrate
3. No CO2
4. Lighting tubes past their use-by dates
5. Internal heater clogging up the place
6. Poor flow
7. Stones from the garden are almost certainly putting weird chemicals in
8. Overfeeding
9. Pretty much entirely the wrong kind of fish.


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

So here's what I've done:

1. Got Tropica Nutrition for 7ml dosing each week, with 50% weekly water changes, and leaving the biological media alone as much as possible (!)
2. Changed the substrate for Aqua Soil Amazonia II
3a. A temporary CO2 system of TetraPlant CO2 Optimat Kit - diffused into the water through an upturned Innocent drink bottle, just to get started with
3b. A drop checker (in the post from ebay...) so I know what's going on
3c. A proper pressurised system using a FE with inline diffuser, non-return valve, bubble counter, etc, once the various parts arrive from ebay 
4. Lighting replaced with LED Grobeam 500 - seeing if I can replicate George's success with LEDs - I love the shimmer - on for 8 hours on a timer
5. A Hydor inline heater, keeping it at 24C
6. Cleaned about a year's algae from the Eheim 2032 filter pipes, which has increased the flow by a factor of about 10   and replaced the green bits with and perspex clear tubes for the filter return from the tank (much cheaper than glass ones). Flow around the tank now looks pretty good.
7. Various bogwood pieces from the fish shop, which I've drilled and mounted with suckers, so I can attach them to the sides of the tank 
8. Cut down on the food, and introduced starvation day once a week
9. Got rid of the two worst fish. (The shadow lurking on the far right of the picture below is one of two Hypostomus plecostomus. I have now realised they were responsible for most of the floating plants, and so they've gone back to the shop, for a tidy profit  ).

All the pipes are hidden through the ceiling above, into the cupboard under the stairs, which now looks like this:





The girlfriend thinks I'm mad. The immediate result probably doesn't help that:   





Just hoping fish survive the dramatic changes... Is there anything obvious I've missed?


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## greenink

*Hardscaping (taster)*

Water has cleared a bit. On the plus side, nitrate levels have dropped right down, even with all the stuff from the gravel I've disturbed up. 

The plants I have left (though in various sorry states) are:

2 narrow leaf java fern
1 Bolbitis Heudelotii, looking pretty unhappy
Hemianthus 'cuba' remnants (not saved early enough from the plecostomus)
Cardamine Lyrata, half-melted - don't really like this, but am seeing if my new regime can keep anything alive
Scraps of Weeping Moss
Eleocharis Parvula clumps

So I've put in the bogwood, with Weeping Moss (scraps) tied on to it, just to start off with. Wish I could do the 'start afresh' thing that so many people here do, but the girlfriend says I have to get this tank looking good before I'm allowed another one - so I can't move the fish out without getting rid of them. 

Will put up a proper hardscape shot later... this is just a taster, in silhouette:





I need to wait until the evening to do a proper shot, as there's too much reflection around in the day. And I've deliberately not put a background behind - which I may do for future shots, so you can see how important it is to see through the tank...

Am going to wait until the pressurised CO2 is in place and I've made the hard fish-elimination choices until I get more plants. Am thinking with working around what I have until I've proved I can actually grow things without them dying, and then planning the aquascaping properly.


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## greenink

*Fish purge?*

The next stage is to sort out problem number 9 - the wrong fish! This is going to be the hard bit - the ones I like most are the worst ones....

Fish at the moment are:

8 Neon Tetras
8 [red?] Tetras, not sure what they're called
5 Tiger barbs
1 Sailfin black molly
1 Guppy (female, pregnant, not happy since her chap disappeared)
4 Loaches - 2 fully grown, 2 tiny
2 Angels

...and 6 shrimp (RIP) inside the Angels and Tiger Barbs within about 30 seconds

I'm thinking I need to get rid of the Angels and the Tiger Barbs, and replace them with cherry shrimp. What about the loaches? Are they ok if I want to grow HC?

I'd like to get in some Dwarf Gouramis too - am assuming they won't eat the shrimp.

And overall, can I get away with this many fish in 73l with 7 times turnover an hour?

Comments and help much appreciated! Hope this will be a journal that gives hope to others who start keeping plants that all die... and then come to UKAPS


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## Johno2090

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

These are my favorite types of Journals, People who have no real experience keeping plants alive and them showing us what our input here at UKaps can do for the plants, fish and people!

Long Live UKaps.


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## Plantgeek

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Looking good! Can't wait to see how it turns out.

The loaches might be a problem with the shrimp.

What lighting are you using on the tank?


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				Plantgeek said:
			
		

> Looking good! Can't wait to see how it turns out.
> 
> The loaches might be a problem with the shrimp.
> 
> What lighting are you using on the tank?



Lighting is Aquabeam LED set: http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/planted-tank/grobeam-500.asp. Have seen slightly mixed reviews of it, but is cheaper in the long run than replacing tubes (50,000 hrs is more than 13 years of my lighting schedule...)

It's screwed in above the tank, and then hidden by some MDF access panels.




What would the loaches do? Will they eat them? The loaches are only pretty small at the moment. Maybe I should get bigger shrimp then. Any suggestions - would really like to keep the loaches as they're very active


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## spyder

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Iwagumi. Good view from both sides and you can still see through.   

You are kinda heavily stocked in a 72l but I guess we've all been down that path.

Good luck with the changes and keep us posted.


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## L_Plates

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Great log and love the setup. Looking forward to future updates.


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## Gill

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Really great read thru your journey into the planted world, We have all started at the same point as you.


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## bigmatt

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

nice tank and very clever solutions to problems! The only flaw i can see is you're going to need some more comprehensive fert dosing as TPN doesn't contain everything you need. Ei is the cheapest way to do this or APFUK (site sponsors) do their own all-in-one which is getting good reviews and is a lot cheaper than big name products. Love that silhouette pic! Matt


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## John Starkey

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Nice to see the forum is getting out there and helping new comers   ,i love the setup in the wall,very cool,
just make sure you add plenty of fast growing plants,


john.


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## Johno2090

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Plantgeek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What lighting are you using on the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting is Aquabeam LED set: http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/planted-tank/grobeam-500.asp. Have seen slightly mixed reviews of it, but is cheaper in the long run than replacing tubes (50,000 hrs is more than 13 years of my lighting schedule...)
> 
> It's screwed in above the tank, and then hidden by some MDF access panels.
Click to expand...


I use GroBeams and Aquarays they work wonders Imo, never have any trouble growing carpets with them so you should be set also got an 8 Channel controler on the way for mine to setup some sunsets and sunrises!



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> The only flaw i can see is you're going to need some more comprehensive fert dosing as TPN doesn't contain everything you need. Ei is the cheapest way to do this or APFUK (site sponsors) do their own all-in-one which is getting good reviews and is a lot cheaper than big name products. Love that silhouette pic! Matt



I agree with Bigmatt, check out EI dosing and make sure your dosing both micro and macro nutrients.


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> I use GroBeams and Aquarays they work wonders Imo, never have any trouble growing carpets with them so you should be set also got an 8 Channel controller on the way for mine to setup some sunsets and sunrises!



That's great news. Let me know if you think I need to go higher than the manufacturer's recommendation of 1 Grobeam 500 per 2 sq ft of surface area . Hope not, they're not cheap! Love the controller, but can't justify it until there's something worth looking at.



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> bigmatt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only flaw i can see is you're going to need some more comprehensive fert dosing as TPN doesn't contain everything you need. Ei is the cheapest way to do this or APFUK (site sponsors) do their own all-in-one which is getting good reviews and is a lot cheaper than big name products. Love that silhouette pic! Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Bigmatt, check out EI dosing and make sure your dosing both micro and macro nutrients.
Click to expand...


Thanks Johno and Bigmatt - this is exactly why I'm doing this journal - and so others can learn from my mistakes . Having read around, I thought I only needed the Tropica Nutrition, because the fish waste would make up for the Nitrates and Phosphates that are in Tropica Nutrition Plus, given my tank is relatively highly stocked. But I can see it's better to just be precise  . 

And maybe there is other stuff needed that's not in either TPN or TPN+? (My chemistry is terrible).

Seeing as I'm fully committed to taking UKAPS advice, 2000ml of APFUK all-in-one is now on its way, and the Tropica Nutrition is being relegated to the holding pen... May go for EI when that runs out (in 285 days by my reckoning).

Now just need to rig up a backing screen for taking those promised hardscape photos.


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## bigmatt

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

cool! Fish waste is an unpredictable thing! You're using good light and pressurised co2 (good choice by the way!) so your plants should, in theory at least, go mental! Therefore consistently supplying them with loads of nutrients becomes a requirement for healthy growth. Don't worry about getting more light at this stage. Nuclear lighting levels are less important than you might think - it's much more important to get your flow, co2 distribution and nutrients right. If you add more light before nailing this it's algae ahoy! Have fun! Matt


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## hotweldfire

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Plantgeek said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking good! Can't wait to see how it turns out.
> 
> The loaches might be a problem with the shrimp.
> 
> What lighting are you using on the tank?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lighting is Aquabeam LED set: http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/planted-tank/grobeam-500.asp. Have seen slightly mixed reviews of it, but is cheaper in the long run than replacing tubes (50,000 hrs is more than 13 years of my lighting schedule...)
> 
> It's screwed in above the tank, and then hidden by some MDF access panels.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would the loaches do? Will they eat them? The loaches are only pretty small at the moment. Maybe I should get bigger shrimp then. Any suggestions - would really like to keep the loaches as they're very active
Click to expand...


You appear to have a mouse climbing the side of your tank.

Looking forward to this one. Was in a very similar place to you a couple of months ago.  You learn a lot on this site.


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## L_Plates

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Hehe, never spotted that before. What is it a monkey or something ?


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## greenink

*Lessons from week one*

Yup, we have adventerous mice in Hackney. Or maybe I should be feeding the cat less...

No hardscape photos yet - the see-through nature of the tank is making photography a slightly more technical challenge than I'd thought, and have been busy all week. Happily, the postman has been kept busy too: new fertiliser, drop checker, 4 dkH liquid for the drop checker all arrived this week. (I have understanding neighbours who don't mind keeping packages.)





So what have I learnt?

Is immediately clear that the CO2 system I've been using so far (Optimat injected twice a day into an upturned Innocent Smoothies bottle that diffused into the water) is pretty much entirely useless, judging by the drop checker:





It hasn't got even close to being green at any point... So getting the FE system in is definitely a priority once the regs etc arrive, and the TetraPlant Optimat CO2 system is not recommended by me for a tank of this size (72l). Although having read other forums, it looks like I might have too much surface agitation from the filter too. Will try reducing this for a few days and see if it makes any difference. 

On the plus side, went to the fish shop to pick up bags for taking the angels and tiger barbs in later for an exchange, and couldn't resist the glosso (Glossostigma elatinoides) and pennywort (Hydrocotyle verticillata). 





Thought I'd keep them in their pots in the tank, just to see whether the new ferts and flow are making a difference - with positive results: they're looking good, and growing quite a bit even in a week. The HC is only just keeping it's tiny head above the gravel though. But on balance - on just a week's evidence - I think I'd recommend the fert change to APFUK all in one ferts (though doesn't hold itself in solution very well after you've mixed it in water - you really have to shake it up before you dose). The fish don't seem to be suffering from the nitrates in the ferts (though one tiger barb conked out this morning - could be a coincidence?). 









Not going to plant these properly until the hardscape is sorted and the FE CO2 is in place. Hopefully pictures of the hardscape will be up some point this weekend. 

And finally, here are pictures of the critters that have to leave... 









Shame, I liked those Angels


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## bigmatt

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

why are you losing the angels again? Pretty, pretty fish! Glad you're having good results with the ferts - i couldn't believe the difference just that made! M


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## Johno2090

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Prob because they like digging up freshly planted plants hahah! Had no end of trouble with mine when I used to keep them, Now its just the Corys I have to worry about but they are less troublesome by far!

The Co2 will make a huge change! I'd be careful about the fish eating any undissolved salt in the solution that may have been what caused your barb to die. But I'm not 100% I've seen my Rasbora eat some and turn up dead the next day :/

Keep us updated!


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> why are you losing the angels again? Pretty, pretty fish!



Yup, but they keep eating any shrimp I put in there - and I reckon they'd do the same to ottos, so am worried about the algae problem when I start injecting CO2. So I think I'm going to swap them for dwarf Gouramis of some kind. Plus, in a tank this size, they do something strange to the scale. I think it would look better with smaller fish.

But perhaps they've got wind of my plans! Came down this morning to see them viciously guarding a leaf of Java fern, which was covered in eggs  . 






This has only happened to me once before, when they lasted about 24 hours in the tank before being eaten. So this time I have tweaked out the leaf and put it in a breeding holder. Most of them look fertilised (they are transparent, not an opaque white after a couple of days), so maybe I'm getting a whole load of angels! Though looking online it seems that they can be very vulnerable to fungus attacks. I don't mind that much if they will die, so I'm not going to put that much effort in, but my spray them with EasyCarbo every now and then, in the hope that the algaecide in that will kill some of the fungi too. 

Here's hoping that I get 20 little angel fish that I can take to the shop and swap for all the plants I will ever need  .  I guess this means that the hardscape shot is going to have to wait for a week or so until the angel eggs hatch (or die). There's quite a lot of stuff in the tank now what with that breeding chamber.

A bit of movement on the CO2 drop checker. Here's the original one:





And here it is now:





So might risk getting those plants in...


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> I'd be careful about the fish eating any undissolved salt in the solution that may have been what caused your barb to die. But I'm not 100% I've seen my Rasbora eat some and turn up dead the next day



Useful! Should say that the dry powder ferts have dissolved into a much clearer solution over the last couple of days, so I'm less worried about having to shake it loads before putting it in. ( You could literally see small particles floating around in the mixture, but now it's completely uniform). For others using these ferts for the first time, I'd recommend mixing up a few days before you start using it, so everything has a chance to dissolve properly.


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> Now its just the Corys I have to worry about but they are less troublesome by far!



Do you think I should be looking at getting the loaches out too, if I'm trying to grow a carpet of glosso? Am fed up with plants floating around every morning!


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## Johno2090

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

yeah loaches are notorious for uprooting plants!


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## greenink

*Hardscape...*

Managed to sort out some kind of background that makes photo taking not impossible. Though this is an interim set-up and hope to improve further as this journal moves on - is just taped together bits of paper at the moment but might get mounting board. Also need a better camera...

I drilled holes in the base of the bogwood, and mounted suckers so these can stick to the sides of the tank. Think this gives it a sense of reaching out into the walls either side, in an interesting way. Then the 'sticking up' pieces of wood give it more of a diagonal flow. Trying to 'golden section' it, but the long, shapely piece of bogwood is a bit too short - shouldn't be exactly half the tank as now, in an ideal world.

Anyway, here it is:





Not really that happy with it - suggestions would be great!

Planting plan is for a carpet of glosso / HC at the sides and down the open stretch, depending on what I can get to grow, with hairgrass and pennywort providing a bit of higher, mid level 'fill' around the base of the 'sticking up' bits of wood, with the java ferns. 





The bogwood has weeping moss attached to it (currently with cotton which has disintegrated too quickly and will be replaced with fishing line), which should soften the look of the wood considerably. The loaches love resting on it.

Should probably get something stemmy and fast growing for the initial set up, to reduce the risk of algae. Though I should have swapped shrimp-munching fish for a few shrimps and ottos by then. 

Any other suggestions about hardscaping? Have lots more bogwood, and various rounded stones in gray, but nothing fancy stone-wise (seiryu). Or is this good to go?


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## Gill

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Driftwood looks really good. What type of suction cups did you use. As Looking for some to use on Bogwood like you have done.


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## bigmatt

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

I'd drop the bogwood down a little if i was really picky inline with the golden ratio BUT it's all realtive to where you actually view the tank from!  A "square on" pic is very nice, but does not necessarily equate with what you see day-to-day!  I'd whack in some taller plants as well - your "unique" tank position doesn't half make it a challenge though! 
M


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## greenink

*Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				Gill said:
			
		

> Driftwood looks really good. What type of suction cups did you use. As Looking for some to use on Bogwood like you have done.



Just standard ones from my old internal filter. Then drilled holes in the bogwood to take the sticky out bit of the suction cups and screwed the cup on...


My 'see through' tank challenge http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15878


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## Gill

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Gill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Driftwood looks really good. What type of suction cups did you use. As Looking for some to use on Bogwood like you have done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just standard ones from my old internal filter. Then drilled holes in the bogwood to take the sticky out bit of the suction cups and screwed the cup on...
> 
> 
> My 'see through' tank challenge http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15878
Click to expand...


Cool thanks for that, Have a few of those I can use. What Screws did you use - Steel Galvanised ?


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## greenink

*Getting there I hope*

So the FE is in place today and have been trying to get the flow right. Not as easy as it looks to get the drop checker to go to the right colour. Am wondering whether it needs a certain amount of pressure to work with an inline diffuser, and whether to fiddle with the nut on the regulator. Can't quite work it out - seems to me I'm having to use a higher bubble count than I was expecting - quite a few each second.

The Angels have gone, as have the barbs. Swapped them at the LFS for various plants (will list later, depending on which survive), and have removed one piece of 'side' wood, and placed this in the substrate. Have also lowered the big piece on the side. Think this is now a much more balanced 'scape'. 





Getting there... Though apparently I have to take the Botia loaches out too as they eat plants (and shrimp). They'll be a nightmare to catch - they're seriously quick. Another lesson learned   Then I can put the shrimp in, and any algae should be cleared up   

Mental note: sort out the photography! It actually looks very different in real life, as the wide angle lens on my camera distorts everything. This one's mainly just a snap as a record of what I've put in today. But think I need a better camera really, or at the very least a tripod!


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## greenink

*All set?*

After a trip to the LFS today, think am now all set...

- FE CO2 is working well, coming on and going off 2 hrs before the lights. Was surprisingly easy to do, and the instructions here viewtopic.php?t=266 worked like a treat. Drop checker nice and green.

- Fert dosing regime seems ok too. Plants now aren't dying, even though they're a bit covered in brown algae over the surfaces.

The main thing is that the Botia Loaches have now gone back. I do not recommend trying to catch them in a tank with plants  . So I'm finally ready to put in the algae busting, clean up crew:

Part 1: Five cherry shrimp





Part 2: Three amano shrimp 





Part 3: Three ottos.









Within about an hour they'd already made a difference! Hoping they won't get eaten, although the gold barbs (which I thought were tetras) are definitely showing an interest already. 





Have just looked up the barbs - apparently they eat shrimp. Crap. Will keep you posted on whether they survive.

The plants I've got in there now are:

Cardamine lyrata, which I don't rate that much. Wispy and fly-away. But maybe now the loaches are out, it might have a chance.

Hydrocotyle verticillata, which I love. The leaves on this have gone brown over the last week or so, so definitely not that happy. Am hoping it's algae and that the shrimp and ottos will sort it out. Interested in people's views on that - is it a nutrient deficiency? 





Eleocharis parvula, like everyone else! Seems relatively happy, lots of runners going out, though the odd leaves are brown and not as happy as the one in the LFS.





Glossostigma elatinoides. Looks pretty happy, though seems to be growing up rather than along. Not sure what to do about this!

And then the challenge, Pogostemon stellata (Eusteralis). Apparently this only thrives in tanks. Is supposed to have red stems and under-leaves after a while. Seems pretty happy so far.





Plus my old java ferns and a Bolbitis heudelotii, which has never been happy, as it got covered in algae really early. Hoping the shrimps and ottos will sort it out!

So a lot riding on the new entrants....   Just hoping they can live up to their billing. From my reading of this site, I now can't think of anything more to do, except sit back and wait (and do more water changes). The tank is looking like this:


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## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Hmm. Now down to just one Amano shrimp and three cherry shrimp - unless they're hiding in places I can't see.


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## bigmatt

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

They're suprisingoly good at hiding!  it'd take a lot of fish to handle a full sized amano!
Looking good - especially like the "see through" shots though i'm sire they're a nightmare to take!
Matt


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## greenjar

*Re: All set?*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Have just looked up the barbs - apparently they eat shrimp. Crap. Will keep you posted on whether they survive.



I keep gold and cherry barbs with cherry shrimp, and can say that I dont believe they're going to wipe out your shrimp colony.  They are abit inquisitive and will chase shrimp sometimes if the shrimp have no where to hide.  They will however eat baby shrimp as most fish this size would.  My shrimp do hide alot due to the fish and they'll hide in places youll never expect or would be able to see them. I woul'nt worry to much with counting, just ensure lots of plant cover and hiding places are provided.

I'm thinking of setting up a shrimp only tank so that I can see more of the little critters.  I found that since getting involved with shrimp I probably spend more time looking at the shrimp than I do the fish...


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## greenink

*Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Thanks - very reassuring



			
				greenjar said:
			
		

> I keep gold and cherry barbs with cherry shrimp, and can say that I dont believe they're going to wipe out your shrimp colony.  They are abit inquisitive and will chase shrimp sometimes if the shrimp have no where to hide.  They will however eat baby shrimp as most fish this size would.  My shrimp do hide alot due to the fish and they'll hide in places youll never expect or would be able to see them. I woul'nt worry to much with counting, just ensure lots of plant cover and hiding places are provided.



Yup: a proper count shows it's just one amano down, and the rest are putting MI6 to shame.


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## greenink

*Fish-icide*

DISASTER strikes. Accidentally turned the CO2 dial on the FE without realising, when rummaging about under the stairs, left it on all day, and came back to find the drop checker bright yellow and a whole load of floating, dead fish and shrimps. Every one a goner. 

Guess this really is a 'make every mistake possible' journal. At least I got rid of most of the expensive fish and swapped them for plants before this happened. And I guess I can now start out growing the plants with a much lower fish load in the tank, which should work better.

Big water change this morning and cleaned all the pipes, and then will drop in to LFS on the way home to pick up some shrimp and ottos, if they still have any. That'll teach me. Feel pretty guilty about killing them all, though weirdly still very happy to eat fish and chips for dinner.


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## Johno2090

*Mike's see-through tank challenge*

I'm sure we've all gassed our fair share of fish and shrimp here!


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## greenink

*Year zero*

Woman at fish shop extremely understanding. Four ottos, three amanos and four cherry shrimp now settling in to the tank. Am going to pretend the deaths never happened, and at least it solved my gold barb problem...


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## Johno2090

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

almost like you planned it.......


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## greenink

*Pause for thought*

Part of why I'm keeping this journal is to record lessons I've learned (from failing!). So it's time for a quick summary:

1. Keep plants and (especially) fish small. It makes the tank look MUCH bigger, and your eye gets drawn in.
2. Keep to a small number of species (of plants), and plant in groups - like you would in a 'real' garden.
3. Shrimp and ottos are essential. Have more than you think, and your plants look clean pretty much all the time.
4. Water changes as often as you can.
5. Don't clean the filter too often. Get a special pipe cleaner on a spring brush for the filter tubes. Keep these clean and your flow will be fine.
6. Drop checkers go green for a huge range of bubble-counts. Push the CO2 as high as you can, while keeping the drop checker green (but make sure it doesn't go yellow!).
7. Superglue is fine underwater (once dry).

And the last one:

- You don't have to find the perfect bit of wood. By combining lots of different pieces, you can get just the look you want. In fact, it's more flexible to have more pieces. You just need to weight them down (especially if they're redmoor, as they take a long time to get waterlogged properly (if they ever do)). A good way to do this is either tie a rock to the underside with fishing wire, or superglue a stone to the underneath.

With that in mind, have gone for a complete rescape. Wasn't intentional, just that there were these three great bits of Redmoor in the LFS:






And then one thing led to another...


----------



## greenink

*Rescape (thinking through!)*

Thinking behind the rescape:

PLANTS

The glosso and hairgrass are doing well. Lots of runners, and the shrimp are doing a great job on them, keeping algae off it. So is the Pogostemon stellata - growing up well, though not as red as I'd like. The plan is for pogostemon in particular to develop into a big, feature plant. Will keep trimming low so it branches out. There are some fantastic ones in the LFS. Here are a couple of pictures of other people's, which is what I'm aiming for:









The Bolbitis heudielotii never really got going, and it's a drab dark colour anyway, so that's out:



 

The Cardamine lyrata was growing well, but too straggly for my taste, so that's basically out too:





(Much prefer the pennywort).

And then the LFS had a great Alternanthera reineckii 'Pink' (roseafolia), which is also supposed to be difficult, but can grow out bushy:









I figure I'll see which of the Alternanthera and Pogostemon grow better, and probably just keep one.

HARDSCAPE

The bogwood is just too dark, and 'clumpy', and doesn't lead the eye at the moment. Want something more ethereal - in a tank this size, think it's important to have wispy-ness. 

The 'floating' piece on suckers in my current layout is quite fun, but I think is blocking quite a lot of light from the glosso and stuff underneath it, and it's basically to 'heavy'. So am going to go for Redmoor (now I've learned that you can combine several pieces to make the shape you want), and a more traditional layout. This is the tank I'm currently inspired by:


----------



## greenink

*Mid-rescape technical issues...*

Found the impeller on the Eheim is broken (again). Very irritating. 





Trip to the LFS to pick up another one, and have realised that the 'brushings' are missing on the spindle, so fashioned my own from CO2 piping. I'm not paying £15 for two tiny bits of plastic  . Am hoping that's what's caused the impeller to break.

In the spirit of DIY, have also made a nice pipe intake from a 99p piece of 12mm perspex tubing:





Just heated the end with a painstripper gun and pliered it together, then drilled holes. Who needs to pay silly money for an ADA one?


----------



## greenink

*Rescape*

Right, the actual rescape. This is my last free weekend for a bit and didn't want to have to soak the Redmoor, so have tied rocks to it with fishing line, and in one case superglued a flat rock to the bottom. Seems to work fine.

Here is the tank just prior to rescaping. Note the ugly green plastic 'cap' on the inlet pipe:





Here's the 'interim' stage, with a big rock holding everything down, and some tall grass that I decided against mid-scaping:





Here's the 'finished' article:





Pretty pleased with the transparent intake. (The outflow is bent piece of the same pipe, filled with sand, heated and wrapped around a wine bottle - works great).

The plan going forward is:

1. The Alternanthera on the left will only stay there until the glosso and hairgrass have got a bit more spread, and I'm able to see how well it grows. 
2. Then the Alternanthera will move over to the right - or come out - depending on how well the Pogostomon does. I want it to basically grow all through the Redmoor so you can't see that much of it - like the Harry Kwong 'scape above. 
3. Planning for a carpet of glosso and hairgrass, and for the pennywort to grow up the sides. 
4. The java ferns in the middle will also come out if the Pogostemon / Alternanthera does well enough. 

Here's the very basic sketch:





Think the nearest piece of Redmoor also needs to be rotated slightly anticlockwise. Might do when I next trim the plants. Seriously need to get a proper camera   - looks a lot better than this in real life.

What do people think? Is this an improvement?


----------



## greenink

*Night photos*

Here are two quick snaps of the tank at night


----------



## hotweldfire

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

It's a lovely piece of redmoor. Makings of a great tank I think. Definitely an improvement.


----------



## faizal

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Hi Mike,....The tank looks really nice after the re-scape  I like the new look of your tank.

I wish it turns out as you have planned. Good luck!! 

Hey Mike,...If I may ,....I think US Fissidens moss would look cool tied to those branches y'know,...along with some anubias nana petite ?


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> In the spirit of DIY, have also made a nice pipe intake from a 99p piece of 12mm perspex tubing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just heated the end with a painstripper gun and pliered it together, then drilled holes. Who needs to pay silly money for an ADA one?



Looking nice. I'm looking into making myself a DIY inlet to go with my DIY spray bar. How firm/stable/rigid is the drilled end of the inlet pipe?


----------



## greenjar

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Hardscaping looks great  and I dont think it needs any further tinkering  right now   
You are definitely at the point where you can just watch it grow in and enjoy the process
Well done and keep the pics coming


----------



## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> I think US Fissidens moss would look cool tied to those branches y'know,...along with some anubias nana petite ?



Completely agree - but am going to see if I can grow the other stuff first! Have learnt my lesson of trying to do too much too quickly...



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I'm looking into making myself a DIY inlet to go with my DIY spray bar. How firm/stable/rigid is the drilled end of the inlet pipe?



Completely rigid: it works great, and you can make two or three out of a 99p metre long section, so you can just replace it when it gets dirty and run the spare through the dishwasher. I made one with smaller holes (for when the cherry shrimp spawn), and one with bigger holes too.



			
				greenjar said:
			
		

> I dont think it needs any further tinkering  right now
> You are definitely at the point where you can just watch it grow in and enjoy the process. Well done and keep the pics coming



Thanks! Will try my best not to tinker. Though is always hard when you've spotted an improvement. See next post for a video….


----------



## greenink

*Video*

Here's a video. A bit irritating that my phone takes better quality pictures than my camera . Gives a much better idea of how the tank looks, and the 'shimmer' that comes from the LED lights.

The standard definition one is below, or click here for one in HD


----------



## L_Plates

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Nice video, loving your journey mate. Great to see how you have progressed.

Massive thumbs up.

LP


----------



## greenink

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Have spent the week gradually turning up the CO2, looks like everything's thriving. The shrimp make a massive difference in how clean the tank is. Highly recommend to any new aquascapers to start off with very minimal fish loading and way more shrimp than you thought!


----------



## chilled84

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> So here's what I've done:
> 
> 1. Got Tropica Nutrition for 7ml dosing each week, with 50% weekly water changes, and leaving the biological media alone as much as possible (!)
> 2. Changed the substrate for Aqua Soil Amazonia II
> 3a. A temporary CO2 system of TetraPlant CO2 Optimat Kit - diffused into the water through an upturned Innocent drink bottle, just to get started with
> 3b. A drop checker (in the post from ebay...) so I know what's going on
> 3c. A proper pressurised system using a FE with inline diffuser, non-return valve, bubble counter, etc, once the various parts arrive from ebay
> 4. Lighting replaced with LED Grobeam 500 - seeing if I can replicate George's success with LEDs - I love the shimmer - on for 8 hours on a timer
> 5. A Hydor inline heater, keeping it at 24C
> 6. Cleaned about a year's algae from the Eheim 2032 filter pipes, which has increased the flow by a factor of about 10   and replaced the green bits with and perspex clear tubes for the filter return from the tank (much cheaper than glass ones). Flow around the tank now looks pretty good.
> 7. Various bogwood pieces from the fish shop, which I've drilled and mounted with suckers, so I can attach them to the sides of the tank
> 8. Cut down on the food, and introduced starvation day once a week
> 9. Got rid of the two worst fish. (The shadow lurking on the far right of the picture below is one of two Hypostomus plecostomus. I have now realised they were responsible for most of the floating plants, and so they've gone back to the shop, for a tidy profit  ).
> 
> All the pipes are hidden through the ceiling above, into the cupboard under the stairs, which now looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The girlfriend thinks I'm mad. The immediate result probably doesn't help that:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hoping fish survive the dramatic changes... Is there anything obvious I've missed?



IS THAT WATER NEAR ELECTRIC! SCARY STUFF!


----------



## greenink

*Photos*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> IS THAT WATER NEAR ELECTRIC! SCARY STUFF!



Yup, it's moved a bit further away now... and doesn't look as bad as in the photo - think there's some foreshortening going on. But am very careful indeed with water changes  .

Quick growth update photos (from phone, so not great quality):

Alternanthera is reddening up well, and growing thick:





Shrimps are doing a good job in helping the glosso grow, though it's not spreading as quick as I'd like. Might need a bit of prompting (i.e. trimming):





Hairgrass sending out runners:





Full tank shot shows the Pogostemon is growing too, though not reddening:





One otto down today. Might be because the CO2 levels are getting pretty high. Might leave it how it is for the moment! Will sort out precise Redmoor positioning when it's saturated enough for me to remove the stones - another few weeks I think. It's a bit too even at the moment.


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

this is looking good! Great vid and soundtrack.


----------



## twg

*Re: Mike's see-through tank challenge*

Lovely piece of wood.

Some moss might compliment it well.


----------



## greenink

*Limnophila Aromatica*

Realised yesterday that my inline diffuser was the wrong way up, and lying on it's side. This seemed to seriously affect the CO2 distribution. So have sorted that out. Also managed to get hold of some Limnophila aromatica cuttings from the LFS, where it's growing in a few of their tanks, and they'd taken some trimmings. Haven't seen it available anywhere, and have been wanting some for ages. Is an amazing plant, and apparently easy to grow:





Mine doesn't look quite that good (yet!) But pleased with the way it's pearling already.





The plan is to have this spread out in the middle of the redmoor roots, becoming the focal point of the tank.

While I was at the shop, also got hold of some HC, just to try one more time , now that I've got proper CO2 and shrimps and ottos. We'll see if I can make this grow. It started pearling as soon as I put it in, but seems to have stopped this morning.





On the plus side, everything is pretty healthy, and the glosso has started to grow laterally.





Fingers crossed, but feel like I'm getting the hang of this a bit now...


----------



## greenink

*A quick summary*

Thought a single-picture round-up is probably helpful at this stage. A 2mb version that's much clearer is here.





(Format is 'inspired' by something I've seen on this forum, but can't remember where!)


----------



## greenink

*LED thinking*

Have been wondering whether the Grobeam 500 12W does produce enough light for my 70L tank, as my plants just aren't pearling. After quite a lot of research, uncovered this very detailed American review of LEDs compared to other lighting options. 

Scroll about half way down for the detailed LED section. The upshot is that "a high PAR/PUR LED from the most exclusive/best emitter bins can only need 4% of the wattage as a household T12 to produce the same results [or] ... about 17% for better aquarium T8 or T12 lamps" and that "It is still easy to make assumptions from the raw data based on this study with plants that a 12 Watt LED can at least replace a 100 watt MH of equal Kelvin ratings"

Here's the test result comparing Metal Halide and LEDs:






The helpful American chap says that when "the outdated 'watts per gallon rule' for planted/reef aquariums (@ 4 watts per gallon) is applied to a TMC GroBeam (as an example)" that for "a high light planted freshwater aquarium .6 to maybe .8 watts per gallon are required."

Translating this into British English :silent:, means that 0.16 - 0.21 LED W are needed per litre. So my 72L tank (for example) requires 11.5W to 15.2W. So I'm pretty much ok with just the one 12W Grobeam, but could push it to 2 for a serious light overload...   

So I think the explanation for the non-pearling has to be CO2 related - given that the HC pearled as soon as it went in but hasn't since - and I've definitely got enough ferts in there!


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

I have no experience with LEDs but know that TGM is not stocking them as they aren't able to get the same results from them as they can from other "traditional" lighting systems. I don't think you need to get your plants pearling for them to grow healthily, you can see very nice growth without it. So I would say, as I'm sure others would, that adding extra light just to get the pearling will lead to more harm than good...

You're on a better track with thinking more/better Co2 distribution. How are you dosing your ferts atm?


----------



## Johno2090

*The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Tgm's standpoint has been questioned by many in regards to led's. The tests and people using them on ukaps speaks for themselves, very very good results.

I'd advise against getting another strip unless your seeing deficiencies brought about via lack of light. The fact your gloss is growing horizontally and not up is a good sign that your lighting is fine. Add more light and your algae issues will sky rocket!


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> How are you dosing your ferts atm?



Thanks to suggestions from ukaps members earlier in this journal (actually Johno2090 and BigMatt), am using the AquariumPlantFoodUK all in one solution which you just mix up. (They're a sponsor). Seems to be working fine.

Here's the Practical Fishkeeping review.



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> I'd advise against getting another strip unless your seeing deficiencies brought about via lack of light.



Thanks - agree with you. (Thanks also for putting me onto Grobeams in the first place... am now a fully signed up LED convert)


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Bobtastic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are you dosing your ferts atm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to suggestions from ukaps members earlier in this journal (actually Johno2090 and BigMatt), am using the AquariumPlantFoodUK all in one solution which you just mix up. (They're a sponsor). Seems to be working fine.
> 
> Here's the Practical Fishkeeping review.
Click to expand...


You seem to have all bases covered! Make sure that your Co2 and ferts are getting throughout, then sit back and watch it all grow!


----------



## greenink

*DIY lily pipe for £3*

Why pay fifty quid for a lily pipe when you can make your own? Or so I thought  8) 

First up, some clear plastic acrylic tube from an online shop:





Then set up the painstripping gun so it points upward, melt the end of the tube, and seal one end with pliers.





Rotate a 2 inch section of the plastic tube over the heat gun until it gets soft, evenly. You can see it slightly bend under its own weight. Then the magic bit: blow into one end and create a 'bowl':





Takes quite a few goes to get right. Also, you're looking for a slightly uneven, drooping bowl, not a perfectly round one. I did about three that 'popped' because I'd heated the tube unevenly or blew too hard:





But eventually I got one that looked about right, sawed through it with a hacksaw:





Bending the rest of the pipe is pretty straightforward - just heat a 2 inch section, bend it gently with your fingers (I tried filling it with salt etc but found easier to just do it slowly and carefully), and then 'set' it in a bowl of cold water. [EDIT JAN 2012 - I'd now use a pipe bending spring for this!] Scraped it along some fine sandpaper to get a good finish at the right angle, and bingo, you have a whole load of custom lily pipes:





Works great in the tank, and even creates a 'vortex':





Just be careful with that heat gun!


----------



## greenink

*CO2 mist realisation*

I've been using this inline diffuser for a while now:





With this bubble counter:





..but have been really surprised by the bubble rate I've had to use (too many to count each second) for the drop checker to go green, let alone lime green. Have checked the pressure in the CO2 line (40 PSI) which should be fine. Looking at other people's tanks, especially Andy's journal helpful video:



It seems to me that there should be a lot of mist coming out. I can't see any. So I removed the cheap non-return valve from my CO2 line I bought from ebay (the bubble counter has a safety valve in it):





Seems like there definitely were leaks - suddenly saw a whole load of misting:



My drop checker has zoomed to lime green:





And I had to turn down the CO2 to about a bubble a second to stop fish gasping. Wish I'd done that before, but am now hoping for a rapid improvement in plant growth... the HC is growing a bit, the glosso is creeping along, the pogostemon has developed lots of holes (CO2 related I suspect). Only the Limnophila aromatica I put in last week is doing really well. But it's green at the top, rather than red, which is I think a sign of too much nitrate in the tank.





Seems as if I really am making all the mistakes possible! Still, hope it helps others to have them recorded in some detail . Let me know if you've had any of the same issues, know how too make the Limnophila go red, or are finding this useful!


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: DIY lily pipe for £3*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Why pay fifty quid for a lily pipe when you can make your own? Or so I thought  8)
> 
> First up, some clear plastic acrylic tube from an online shop:
> 
> Just be careful with that heat gun!



Great article mate.. really good. 

I am going to get a heat gun today!


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

If you're wanting to make your own Lily Pipes or Spray bars check out this thread.

I've made my own spray bar so far and I'm planning to make my own inlet when I get the time to experiment.

When you're blowing the acrylic think of the technique for blowing glass, as I believe it is a similar thing.


----------



## Sentral

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Thanks to the OP and everyone posting links! This is certainly something I will do once I've sorted out a cheap external. I was looking at the cheap glass pipes on eBay, but this will save me some cash!

I love a bit of DIY


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Make sure that if you are using the salt method of bending that you use a nice solid bung securely wedged in and that you spend a fair amount of time "tapping" the salt so that it gets as compacted as possible. I found on my first attempt that the initial bend gave the salt extra room to move, which meant the tube flatten and narrowed.

I've not tired the Lily Pipe construction (as I don't want to use them )... But looking at videos of glass blowing (probably on YouTube) should give you an idea of what you need to do.

Also, I used my Black&Decker WorkMate to secure the hotair gun (pointing straight up) which meant that I have both hands free for the making, I also wore thick gardening gloves to protect my hands from the heat.


----------



## greenink

*Decent camera*

Here's my first attempt with a borrowed camera. Much better than previous, but what should I do to improve the image? (Here's a link to higher res 2.8mb version)





Here are the settings:





I've started a discussion in the Photography section to try to get some more advice... Please do comment if you can help! (Here's the comparison shot with my actual camera - a panasonic lumix)


----------



## greenink

*EOS part 2*

Thanks to helpful suggestions, here's a shot with a longer lens:





(Higher res version available here)

With these settings:





Anything else I need to do? Not quite so happy about the background sharpening up - doesn't look as natural...! But the shot quality is definitely better.

Now can anyone help me with the holes in the leaves on the Althenanthera, or why the Limnophila isn't reddening up at the top?


----------



## GreenNeedle

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*

Nice and clear water   Will be interesting to see this develop and how the viewing is once the plants have grown in.  Interesting concept that few have the opportunity to do 

Andy


----------



## Mrmikey

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*

photos are looking good, im struggling with my shots as well but yours seem much sharper and more natural looking. I say good effort


----------



## greenink

*Pretty happy with this shot*

So here's the shot I'm happy with in terms of image quality:





Really don't want to give the camera back  . Here's the high res version - has really pretty amazing quality.

Camera settings are:





Realised I needed to do spot metering, due to the bright background, and then it all sorted itself out

Time to start saving... But hopefully the plants will be fully grown by the time I can get hold of a proper camera. 

Last post for a while as going to be really busy for a while - next one will be of a much more grown-in set up. The red plants on the left will be moved over to the right, once I've proved I can grow them, and the 'carpet' will spread into where they currently are, so it has more balance, and a triangular shape.

Feel like I've learned a lot over the past month or so though. Really recommend keeping a journal to others, as it forces you to think things through properly, and writing it down helps you remember, and realise what you now know!


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*

It looks really nice and natural. Great position of the wood. Really good.


----------



## greenink

*The easiest way to do a 40% water change?*

As I'm going to be pushed for time over the next few months, was wondering if anyone has cracked a nifty solution to doing a 40% water change? If you have, or you're interested, see this thread...


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*

I love the secong image! Right up my street that!


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> I love the secong image! Right up my street that!



Blimey. Your tanks were a major inspiration (for this, and to start aquascaping seriously)

Am very pleased


----------



## foxfish

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new decent photos!*

Not being a photo expert by any means but the panasonic lumix pic looks great to me!


----------



## greenink

*Least hassle way to change water?*

Have been pretty pressed for time recently, so keen to minimise the time spent changing water. Thanks to  plantbrain and others on this thread, I think I've come up with a nifty solution:

1. Using a cheap 'u-bend' and the end of a gravel hose, make a fitting where you can just hook the hose over the side of the tank. The end of the hose should end at the level of a 40% water change




 

2. Connect a separate short section of hose with a siphon pump, using a hoselock fixing, to the other end of the hose, pump a couple of times, and water starts to drain out. 





3. Go away for as long as you like - as water will stop draining when you get to 40%, if your 'u-bend' is the right height.





4. Add in Prime dechlorinator (which I've only just started doing - keen to see whether makes a difference)





5. Using a two way tap splitter, connect the main hose and the siphon pump hose separately. Get the water to come out of just the siphon pump side until the temperature is right. Then open up the tap to the main hose a bit. This means you can check the water temperature going to the tank (if you use the hot tap) constantly, through the short section of siphon hose, without having to put your hands into the tank. And you can also put the fresh water in as quickly or slowly as you like.





Sorted. Thanks plantedbrain...


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

There's a commercial product which work similar. Called JBL in-out complete set. You also can buy the tap connector separatelly which handle the vacuming and the refilling. Just FYI.

Otherwise good stuff


----------



## greenink

*Quick photo update*

Here's how the tank's looking today. Have moved some of the Alternanthera to the right, hoping it will thicken up a bit there.





Not growing as well as I'd like, really... But at least the limnophila is thickening out. Have cut back stems and replanted, and it's beginning to branch out.


----------



## greenink

*Switch to EI, sorting flow and increasing lighting*

Have been pondering the tank for a few days, reading some articles on ukaps that I hadn't really engaged with properly before (particularly clive on flow and EI).

Here's how the tank's looking, from each side. [EDIT - now that I've posted this, and can compare it easily to the picture just above, can see I'm getting quite a bit of growth. Just shows keeping a journal is pretty useful.]





The other side is much harder to take decent photos from, as there are reflection issues   





Am still having little joy with the carpet, even though the drop checker right above them is pretty much yellow, so have decided to crank up the light, putting one flourescent tube back into action, and getting a reflector on it. (As an aside, am cross with the shop for not selling me a reflector, instead flogging me more lights  .)

I'm also biting the bullet and moving to EI dosing:



Plan to mix up 1L at a time of each mixture, using these dosing bottles, recommended by hogan 53.

And finally, I'm now convinced the flow isn't good enough too. The tank is very narrow - just the width of a brick wall - and the bits of redmoor in the root leave almost no room around them. Looking in detail at the stems in the redmoor shows the leaves are melting a bit, which is I think a sign of CO2 shortages.





So I'm going to take one bit out, which will leave more space for flow, and plants as they grow through... Will post pictures in a week or so when it's settled down a bit.

So, I'm basically pretending clive is in my living room, telling me to switch to EI and sort the flow. (And I'm increasing the lighting too, which he'd probably tell me not to do! But then you have to make your own mistakes...  )


----------



## greenink

*ei and 'mind your own business'*

Have done a mini-rescape, removing one piece of redmoor to improve the flow, and trimming back some of the red stems:





And from the other side:





Gives a lot more room for flow, and the plants seem to be much healthier already:





Am also doing a bit of an experiment, trying to grow some Soleirolia soleirolii I found in the garden. Not an aquatic plant, so bound to fail, but worth a try... After all, even Amano has to experiment


----------



## greenink

*HC (again)*

So it turns out the mind your own business is a bad idea. That'll teach me to try and innovate.

EI dosing seems to be making a difference. Am now convinced that my flow isn't high enough, so have removed the polishing filter from my eheim and taken out half the media. And am also going to copy this approach from tyrophagus:



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> Jim you need a rated flow from your pumps/filters of 4500lph.  The pumps/filters will not perform at their rated flow due to the pipes, gravity (head), narrowing at inline equipment points.  Perhaps a system with a rating of 4500lph will perform at 2500 or 3000lph, it varies depending on setup and you would need to measure the flow yourself.
> 
> My eheiem 2076 e has a rated flow of 1700lph and was producing 700lph with an inline co2 diffuser and inline heater.
> 
> Next is don't confuse flow/turnover with filtration.   You don't' need a huge amount of filtration for a well maintained planted tank.  I use an eheim compact+ 3000 external powerhead to drive my co2 diffuser and inline heater and pump that out of a spray bar along the top of the tank.  I run this pump at 50% i.e 1500lph.   I have a 2nd loop that drives a separate spray bar directed up the back of the tank from substrate level that the eheim 2076 is attached to and I run this filter at 50% as well so approx 600lph (no inline attachments for filter).
> 
> This is all on a 180l tank.  I have awesome flow, to much if everything is at max.  I switch off the external pump when I'm not providing co2 to the tank.  The downside is I have 4 tubes going into the tank.
> 
> If I were you I would use an powerful external powerhead to drive my flow and either use one of your filters or try piggyback the two



Have got a New Jet 1200 pump coming, and some acrylic for spraybars. Tinkering is never done...

Plus am putting in some crypts (finally getting there...) and trying HC again   but this time with EI and blasted with CO2.





It's all a bit cloudy from the rescaping so no pictures until tomorrow.

Am a bit convinced all this would be easier in a (second) (bigger) tank, maybe a 240L one, but can't justify it until this one looks good. Doesn't stop me starting to plan it though...


----------



## greenink

*crypt advice*

So here are some quick photos of the tank after putting in the crypts and the HC. Now just waiting for it to melt...





Love this pennywort





And here's the overall tank. Water still not quite clear but not looking too bad... Flow is much better with some redmoor removed. When the Limnophila starts to bunch out a bit more, when I've trimmed a bit, will be getting there. Man in the LFS today said the Limnophila needs a lot of light to redden (his has 4 T5s), so going to wait for it to get to the surface and see whether it reddens, and then maybe consider putting in another T5 as well as the Grobeam LED and the T5 I have already. Beginning to want a PAR meter!





Here's the camera settings and histogram - people have been asking about these, so thought useful!









Have never grown crypts before, so not quite sure about how far to leave the roots exposed. Have pulled the base (rhizome?) out about a centimetre from the substrate - does this look right?


----------



## greenink

*Video*

Here's a video update - bit concerned about the HC, but fingers crossed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTEMgvEN ... r_embedded


----------



## greenink

*Update*

Time for a quick update. 

After realising that the flow was too low, have installed an additional New Jet 1200 lph pump which takes the inline CO2 and heater. Thanks to all who commented on this thread for helping me sort that out. Seems to be making a difference and getting all the plants waving throughout.

EI dosing seems to be going well, and the crypts are certainly thriving. But have been spending a bit of time away from home and tank maintenance has been somewhat shoddy (e.g. had to dose triple EI before going away for 4 days quite a few times). 

So the HC I planted hasn't really thrived - was nervous about ranking up the CO2 when I was away and gassing all my fish (again). Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread to try and sort it out. But it's not dead yet!

Here are some very quick photos, sorry about the quality, but gives an idea of the growth. Will update for better ones at some point when I have time!









So think it's all in place. Just need to be braver on the CO2 and spend more time at home...


----------



## plantbrain

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - move to EI*

The Crypts are welcomed. 
I think some dwarf clover might be better than HC, it's a weed or it slowly dies out for most, so the clover, moss, Starougyne, something easy to care for would be better there I think.

The Red A reinickii looks good, I would work with and keep that one.

Maybe some needle leaf java fern from the center of the wood.


----------



## greenink

*Dwarf puffers*



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> The Crypts are welcomed. I think some dwarf clover might be better than HC, it's a weed or it slowly dies out for most, so the clover, moss, Starougyne, something easy to care for would be better there I think.
> 
> The Red A reinickii looks good, I would work with and keep that one. Maybe some needle leaf java fern from the center of the wood.



Thanks - all very helpful! Here's the tank this morning:





Have been away a lot and the algae has got completely out of hand and some shrimp have died (think the CO2 was a little bit high). But the HC is beginning to look healthy underneath it so might stick with that for a while until it completely defeats me. 

So went into the LFS today and got 7 Ottos to blitz the algae, and a narrow leaf java fern (agree this should go in the middle). Fixed this to some rocks with superglue..





...and bunged it in the middle. Also sorted out new intakes and outlets, improved the flow a lot, and did a general clean of everything. (After the photo above :?)  

But the real highlight is six new dwarf puffers  . I know they may well kill my shrimp and everything else but I love them already. So much personality. They're still tiny. Just uploading a YouTube video now that shows the java fern in place, the ottos starting work on the algae, and the puffers starting to feel at home. Will post later.


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new dwarf puffers and v*

Here's the video [edit - this seems not to work - see post below]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lqKMNYe ... tu.be&hd=1


----------



## Radik

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new dwarf puffers and v*

Video is private can't watch it


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - new dwarf puffers and video*

Right! Will fix but am now away so will take a few days


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new dwarf puffers and v*

Here's the link to the video:



Algae is much better now, even after only a few days of having loads more ottos in.


----------



## BigTom

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - new dwarf puffers and v*

I love DPs, but it is only a matter of time before you start losing bits of the other fish in extremely small increments, best to rehome the others pronto.


----------



## greenink

*update*

Quick update, been a while...


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Just got a new Canon Prime 50mm 1.4 lens. Love it! These are without a tripod, on my old Rebel. Will take some proper pictures soon.

(I moved a few plants before, so the water's not that clear...)





Looks like the glass needs a clean too:





And what kind of algae is this? Does it matter? Should I easycarbo it - Amano shrimps / ottos leaving it pretty much alone...





Thanks for the help!


----------



## Callum

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Love how you can see the development of the tank, great journal! Tank is looking lovely, keep it up. I'm not an algae expert but it might be black beard algae? (Don't take my word for it).
Callum


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

thanks, that's what I thought too. may be sort of nesting there and spreading to the plants, so might kill it at the next water change with a brushing of easycarbo....


----------



## justjason88

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Your journal is fantastic, just spent 20 minutes reading it from the start and i've learnt a lot from it. I thought puffers were strictly brackish water, how come you're keeping them with tetras?


----------



## darren636

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

dwarf puffers inhabit freshwater and brackish- even in the same body of water


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge*

Thanks glad its useful! Some puffers are freshwater and dwarf puffers are small enough to be safe(ish) with tetras and shrimp (so far).


----------



## plantbrain

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge*

When you do a water change, dribble some Easycarb or Excel on the wood to kill any algae by doign say, a 50-70% water change.

Then dose the full amount labeled on the EasyCarb of Excel bottle for the next 2-3 weeks.
Even in non CO2 systems, Starougyne has grown pretty well for some folks.

But the CO2 needs to be stable. Good current also, regular frequent water changes will help, clean the filter often etc.
The algae on the wood and the silicone suggest you do smaller water changes, try 50-70%.

H2O2 also works if the cost or you do not have Excel/Easy carb around.


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting close to the en*

Thanks - really helpful. Haven't had that much time recently, so only just got round to cleaning up and sorting out the tank properly today. One problem with having the tank in the wall is that it's hard to clean properly. Have just got a proper scraper but the angles make it tricky... and taking photos is a nightmare with no back to the tank.

Think I'm doing most of what you recommend though: CO2 is injected ut was having trouble getting it evenly lime green (as was very wary of gassing all my fish as have now done this TWICE), I dose EI (but sometimes forget), water change 50% a week and flow is 10* but am beginning to think the LED lighting is just not up to scratch. 

Plus haven't been cleaning it properly and I think there were too many 'flow blocking' plants in there.

So decided on a big trim. Here's a shot just before:






Have cleared out the crypts that had got way too big (and were depressingly dark - no contrast with the redmoor) and adjusted the reflector on the single T5 I have mounted: now have plants pearling all over the place for the first time in absolutely ages. May at some point put the other T5 I have in there too.

So that's good. Have also added some Cryptocoryne undulates kasselman as liked the colour better - though just seen that gets enormous! So probably a bad choice.

Here's the full tank shots from each side...


----------



## greenink

*...new tank!!!*

...but the good news is that I'm getting a proper sized tank (something like 120*40*55) early in the new year - have just been granted 'planning permission'.    

Feel ready to try out everything I've learned with this one... and will strip this one down when the other one's running and cycled. 

In this one, need something low maintenance that looks good from both sides, so pretty much sold on a simple hair grass Iwagumi with some nice stones. But any ideas welcome.

Now just to get planning for the big one... definitely want wood in there, but might do manzanita instead of redmoor, and needs stones in it too. Will start another journal on the big one when it's getting near to being ready. Have so much I want to try out. 

But will keep this journal (and tank) going until I get the new one done. At some point will do a 'mistakes I've made' post, as think I've done pretty much every one in the book so far. Maybe the first post of the new journal...


----------



## spyder

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Congratulations on the planning permission.   

Look forward to it.


----------



## mdhardy01

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Sorry mike if you have mentioned earlier but where are your lily pipes from?
Looking at some for my nano and they look low profile 
Many thanks 
Matt


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> Sorry mike if you have mentioned earlier but where are your lily pipes from?
> Looking at some for my nano and they look low profile
> Many thanks
> Matt



Made them myself - cost about £4. There's a description somewhere in the journal.


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Added a second T5 today and put reflectors on, and tank has started pearling properly. Think the Grobeam LED just wasn't giving enough light. So have 36w plus the 12w LED on now, and bubbles everywhere.

Have also removed the wood to make space for growing up plants for my forthcoming big tank, so the aquascaping has gone... just as I crack it!


----------



## jalexst

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Congrats on the planning permission!! 

I have read your journal from beggining to end and it's a been really helpful!

Looking forward to your next now...


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				jalexst said:
			
		

> I have read your journal from beggining to end and it's a been really helpful!
> 
> Looking forward to your next now...



Really glad it's helped. I've learned a lot doing it. Here's the pearling today:













Have never had anything like this before. Is also maybe due to putting in all of Tony Swinney's nano tank plants, which he kindly sent me    . So have removed all the hardscape and am just using this as a greenhouse to grow up as much volume as I can for the planting on...


----------



## greenink

*What the hell are these?*

Here's a full tank shot of the destroyed scape that's now a farm:





But at least things are growing properly. The extra lighting is also reddening up the Limnophila aromatica.





And the stauro is coming along now after a harsh prune





But my real question - and reason for posting - is what the hell are these things wriggling on the glass? 





My dwarf puffers aren't interested at all. Hoped they might eat them.


----------



## doobiw55

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Just finished reading your journal, there's some great info and I'm definitely going to try the DIY lily pipes. Looking forward to your next journal  good luck.

Tom


----------



## sussex_cichlids

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Thats nice i like the way you can see though to the kicthen also like the way the bog wood fixed to side of the tank


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Just read this through from start to finish! It's great that you were so honest about both your failures and successes - it's incredibly useful to me, as I'm just planning my first 'properly' planted tank. And congratulations on getting your Limnophila to redden up - will it be starring in your new tank?

PS. What happened to your dwarf puffers?


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Puffers are still there happily toddling about. Yup Limnophila will have big role in the next one... The trouble is pinning down a smaller number of plants for the next tank - think tanks look much better with just 4-5 types of plants in them, even if they're quite big, and need proper contrast in colours and shapes of leaves etc.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Did you ever find out what the creepy crawly is Mike ?


----------



## greenink

*The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Nope


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Nope



A...L...I...E...N....

B E ............... A F R A I D


----------



## greenink

*Factory update...*

Quick update. Everything seems to be growing better now the hardscape is out. Makes me wonder if my flow was actually ok  .

The stauro is starting to carpet properly






The ranunculus is flowing nicely





The hydrocotyle in particular is growing a lot - and getting much bigger leaves









My experiment with the breeding tank failed utterly - think was too high up and plantlets just got fried by T5s... so have put a layer of molar clay on the tank bed and replanted...





...seems to be holding plants in ok - no worries about coming loose.


----------



## greenink

*Aquamedic*

Seems I can actually grow stuff now. Shame I'm just using this as an incubator to grow stuff up for the big tank... Here's a few quick shots.

Stauro carpet going properly





Myriophyllum matogrossense which the tropica website totally underplays in terms of how nice it is - saw in the LFS and just had to have









So here's the full tank





Even have lots of glosso growing horizontal.

So what's different?

1. More light: one t5 with reflector, one grobeam 500
2. Less hardscape
3. Bigger filter: Eheim Pro 3, not Ecco Pro
4. Less feeding of fish - just one frozen cube every few days
5. Regular small easycarbo dosing - 1ml per L every day
6. Changing my EI mix - less Mg, now doing exactly the ukaps starter-for-10 dosing

7. And the big one - way more CO2.... Have switched from an UP atomiser inline CO2 to an aquamedic 1000. Two quick observations: my bubble count now has to be a lot higher to get a lime green drop checker (but the fish are showing no stress), and the water is a lot clearer. Can't help wondering if this whole time the UP Atomiser has been thrown off accuracy by the mist 'getting into' the air space too easily and throwing it off, and that I've been too low on CO2 the whole time...


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Looking great  I've had the same problem with HC, and tried everything to sort it, but only managed a decent carpet a few times despite many, many attempts.

Sam


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Quick (probably final) update. 





and from the other side





will be emptied over the weekend as the plants get transferred into the new big tank...


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Mike thats looking great !  Most people would be happy to have that as a main tank, let alone a 'nursery' for their main tank.  Nice work


----------



## spyder

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Looks like you got the balance in the end. Everything looking clean and healthy. Now you just have to duplicate this in the big tank which should be easier.


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> Looks like you got the balance in the end. Everything looking clean and healthy. Now you just have to duplicate this in the big tank which should be easier.



Cheers - the people on ukaps have been amazingly helpful. Just shows how much you can learn by asking way too many questions!

Most of the plants are now transferred over to the new tank.


----------



## greenink

*Rebirth as puffer tank?*

Right, this tank has now been completely stripped down and rescaped as an iwagumi hardscape - no plants in yet. Photos coming later when the water's cleared properly. 

Really want a freshwater (not dwarf) puffer tank. Is this possible with a planted tank? Thinking just a carpet of staurogyne and that's it as the purple schist stone I have is really nice. Has anyone kept puffers in a planted tank? Do they eat staurogyne? 

Am assuming that shrimp are a no-no, so wondering how people have kept algae down...

Any comments or thoughts really welcomed.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Quick (probably final) update.



I really LOVE this pic Mike.  Ive enjoyed following this tank a lot.  What is the crypt in the middle ? Is it Wendtii brown ?


----------



## somethingfishy

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*

Great journal have really enjoyed reading it all and its journals like this that really help ukaps work

thanks (hope im as honest with my mistakes)


----------



## greenink

*Re: Thinking of a planted puffer tank next...*

Am veering towards getting 3 South American Puffers, which can apparently live ok with Ottos... Anyone got experience of them in a planted tank?


----------



## greenink

*Thinking of a planted puffer tank next...*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> .  What is the crypt in the middle ? Is it Wendtii brown ?



Yup. Funny that you like, was literally just everything bunged in...


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Thinking of a planted puffer tank next...*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .  What is the crypt in the middle ? Is it Wendtii brown ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. Funny that you like, was literally just everything bunged in...
Click to expand...


Often creates the most natural look


----------



## darren636

*Re: Thinking of a planted puffer tank next...*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Am veering towards getting 3 South American Puffers, which can apparently live ok with Ottos... Anyone got experience of them in a planted tank?


there was an article on pfk website a while back, might help.  i should imagine the puffers will invite the otos around for lunch. And supper. And dinner.  good luck though. Puffers are very interesting.


----------



## Christie_ZXR

*Re: Thinking of a planted puffer tank next...*

Got no experience with south american puffers, I've always avoided them because of the teeth issues. As far as I know, they're supposed to have the fastest growing teeth, which can be difficult to keep trimmed. Although they are supposed to be the "friendly puffers", so they might leave ottos alone. Would be a bit of a gamble though.
What about a group of dwarf puffers? I've found they do leave ottos alone. And they're easier to feed! Can just give them bloodworm, although mine did appriciate the odd snail too.


----------



## greenink

*Rescape*

So here's the rescape. Taking the tank out of the wall was a bit of a nightmare:





Then cleaning it up properly





Refilling





And here's the hardscape from each side









A few seedlings of staurogyne from the big tank have gone in but is woefully understocked. Want this one to be really simple. 

No South American Puffers to be found in London, so might just supercharge the CO2 for a bit and grow the tank in without fish, or maybe just some shrimp in there.

Lighting and heating as it was - 2 T5s the length of the tank, plus one Grobeam 500 which gives a nice shimmer, and a separate loop on a pump with a hydor to give extra flow - dosing EI and Easycarbo. 

Changes are:
- filter is now an all pond solutions cheap one
- have put the UP atomiser CO2 on the intake to the filter (following George F's advice), so hope this will mean crystal clear water
- substrate is molar clay (didn't rinse it even slightly and got a lot of clouding)

All set... anyone want to send me lots of staurogyne?


----------



## Ady34

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Aquadream is dismantling his tank and has posted his plants for sale in the for sale section and he has lots of staurogyne... he lives abroad though so postage may be a little more, but his plant health looks exceptional, maybe worth pm ing him.


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Good call


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

What an awesome journal. I can't thank you enough for you honesty and the plain fact that you shared so much with us.

Just read the whole thing start to finish and was fascinating.

Thanks


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

I like your new hardscape - it looks like you've buried a Stegosaurus under your substrate!  

(And I do mean that as a compliment   )


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> it looks like you've buried a Stegosaurus



know exactly what you mean. was trying to block of lines of site (important for puffers) using quite big stones. you don't really get a sense of the depth with the lens i'm using.

putting the CO2 direct into the filter intake using an UP atomiser has worked amazingly well. the odd 'burp' from the filter but otherwise perfect water quality and a bright yellow drop checker pretty quickly. just glad there weren't any fish in there...


----------



## tim

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

love your tanks and you put so much effort into your journals a lot can be learnt from them.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				tim said:
			
		

> love your tanks and you put so much effort into your journals a lot can be learnt from them.



Thanks - hope it helps people avoid my mistakes. I like journals that have the detail about what people tried. So here's an update with my latest experiment:

Bought some Rotala rotundifolia, most of which is going into my big tank, but saved two stems...






...and am experimenting to see whether cuttings work if taken from the middle of a plant as well as the top. So here's the two stems converted into 15 plants, with two nodes on each cutting and the leaves stripped from the bottom node...   





and planted into the middle of the setup





Have to say this would save serious cash and effort getting new scapes going if it works. From a biological point of view I can't see why it wouldn't.

Seems like nowhere has any South American Puffers at the moment so am going to use this tank as a plant experiment one for a bit, with supercharged CO2.

Have also tweaked the hardscape a bit to have more 'flow' and taken out some excess substrate. Would be interested in whether people think it's an improvement    

Here it is before:





and after







 

Quick shots after a water change (also has new intakes / outtakes from a bit of PVC tube lying around). 

Have also been playing with manual mode on the camera, trying to get better shots. These are really underexposed according to the camera's settings, but come out quite well I think. Have learnt from Mark Evans' shots that a bit of black in an image does really help.


----------



## darren636

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

the cuttings should take,  plenty of growth hormones around the leaf nodes, although i wonder if the tips of the original stem will root and grow faster than the cuttings taken from the middle of the stem? Anyway, keep us posted on the results.


----------



## hinch

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

as with all stems when you cut the main branch it creats a split so all your cuttings (apart from the very tip which will remain as a single stem) will grow but they'll grow as 2 separate stems.
What you then do is uproot and separate them from the original stem and now you have gained 2 plants from your one  so if you've trimmed a single stem into 15 plantlets when they grow you'll actually have closer to 30 plants.

Its what i've been doing for the last 6 months in a little tank so I have enough plants for the big tank but without shelling out the hundreds of quid it'd have been to buy the plants themselves


----------



## spyder

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Come on Mike, lets see how far that stauro went to filling it out


----------



## greenink

*Shrimp*

Have moved six cherry shrimp in from the big tank in preparation for a lot of stauro arriving from UKAPS members...





...seeing as there are no puffers in London at the moment, thought might have a go at breeding lots of cherries in here in the meantime.

Also popped in some half dead HC (very dark green, melting) and it seems to be recovering nicely. The CO2 in here is a lot higher.

UPDATE... that Amano shrimp just went walkabout. Found him on the floor near the door  . Maybe they're less CO2 tolerant than cherries?


----------



## greenink

*Stauro*

An exciting package arrived from Aquadream from Bulgaria:









And another one from Spyder in the UK. 





So I've got the Stauro from these two tanks:





Which I prepped:









Giving me more than 300 stems...! You've got to love UKAPS... Here's just one bowl of four...







			
				spyder said:
			
		

> Come on Mike, lets see how far that stauro went to filling it out



So that's a load in this tank:













...and a load in the other tank too...


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> the cuttings should take,  plenty of growth hormones around the leaf nodes, although i wonder if the tips of the original stem will root and grow faster than the cuttings taken from the middle of the stem? Anyway, keep us posted on the results.



Pretty much every one has taken and produced two stems - so well on the way to having 30 plants from two stems... Growth is a bit slow though, and the old leaves have taken a bit of a hit. Will keep you posted.



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> What you then do is uproot and separate them from the original stem and now you have gained 2 plants from your one  so if you've trimmed a single stem into 15 plantlets when they grow you'll actually have closer to 30 plants



Not quite at uprooting stage, but useful.


----------



## spyder

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Mike, you want to plant the stauro so the lowest pair of leaves are at the substrate for besst results. The burried nodes will then throw new shoots around the main stem. 

Found the shot from my journal.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> Mike, you want to plant the stauro so the lowest pair of leaves are at the substrate for besst results. The burried nodes will then throw new shoots around the main stem.



Cheers - prepped them a bit wrong and then couldn't be bothered to change them when it came to planting (as had so many  :thumb up and was hard to get them deep enough as stems were a bit long, but have put some more in along your lines alongside these. 













Here's the HC that's been suffering (almost died in the other tank before I got the AM1000 working properly) and is on it's way to repair in this tank (and the other one too now) - this is a warts and all journal after all...   





Have never been able to start out a tank quite heavily planted from day 1 - and literally can't get another stem into this, so keen to see whether that makes a difference.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Here's the HC that's been suffering



Three days later - noticeable improvement





[EDIT 29 April - getting there...]


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Slightly suspicious - everything seems to be going well: cherry shrimp pregnant and about to pop, stauro all looking healthy, no algae anywhere, HC starting to take off... 

Fingers crossed might have cracked this tank!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Slightly suspicious - everything seems to be going well: cherry shrimp pregnant and about to pop, stauro all looking healthy, no algae anywhere, HC starting to take off...
> 
> Fingers crossed might have cracked this tank!


----------



## faizal

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> Mike, you want to plant the stauro so the lowest pair of leaves are at the substrate for besst results. The burried nodes will then throw new shoots around the main stem.



Spyder thanks for that tip. I am just about to plant some staurogynes into the tank tonight. Lucky to have had a chance to read this before the planting.


----------



## darren636

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

ha! Now you've done it.....


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> ha! Now you've done it.....



Yup. Back from a few days away and brown algae on all the rocks  . Quick scrub, big water change and looks ok again. So turned the lighting down (switching off one T5) to just one T5 and one grobeam 500. Will see if that helps.

The APS filter has UV built in - does this only stop green algae or is it supposed to do brown algae too? Thought disrupted anything that was just one cell or relied on spores. Was hoping it had made a difference.

Apart from that all going well. Rotala putting out new leaves, HC still well on the way (though is having to come back from the very brink  , so will take a while), Stauro putting out new leaves at substrate level (even those I planted way too high). And two cherry shrimp heavily pregnant, fanning their abdomens with another two or three developing saddles.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Quick photo update

Poor quality photo (lights on in the room, so lots of reflections). Have to say this tank is a nightmare for photos!





And an intrepid explorer


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Barely any reflections! Is there even any water in that tank? It looks crystal clear.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Weekly update. Stauro coming on well. Nearly time for a trim.










Rotala still thinking about it, but lots of little shoots coming up. Think it might have been too ambitious to cut into such small portions with inert substrate. Leaves are blackened in a nutrient deficiency way (think is taking nutrients from the existing leaves and putting them into new growth, from my readings around the place.) Here's a photo from a couple of weeks ago.







			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Is there even any water in that tank? It looks crystal clear.



Cheers. Actually had a builder round the other day who asked the same question. Now that's success.


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

It is rather wonderful, to be able to see through your tank so clearly.  

As for the cuttings - you're adding ferts, aren't you? Isn't that where cuttings would get their nutrients from initially? It's not as though they've any roots at this stage. Happy to be corrected on this!


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Yup EI dosing and everything else is fine. Here's a couple of better photos of the problem as it is now. Really need a macro lens!





Have upped EI dosing to 1.5 times and very new growth seems to be slightly better.





Wondering if the inert substrate reduces EI dosing levels by absorbing the nutrients until it's 'full'


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Did you ever find out what the creepy crawly is Mike ?


If you haven't found out yet its called planaria, nasty little things, reports are they seem to attack shrimp and eat anything dead, buy some panacur to treat worms in dogs to kill it, small dose kills all in 24 hours.

The new layout is pretty impressive, looking great


----------



## greenink

*Re: The Transparent Tank Challenge - getting near the end*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> its called planaria, nasty little things.



Yup - don't have them in this tank any more but found a whole load in the other one. Apparently is a sign of overfeeding / not enough substrate vacuuming. Hoping my dwarf puffer will munch them (apparently they can).



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> The new layout is pretty impressive, looking great



Thanks. Am finally able to plan how a tank will look when much more grown in - sort of topiary on the stauro to increase the depth and will start to look good I hope.


----------



## greenink

*Gestation for cherry shrimp?*

Now have four pregnant shrimp. How long do they take? Definitely (reading back) had one pregnant on 17 April, about 2 weeks ago. Makes you realise how useful keeping a journal on here is - really lets you gauge progress even when it looks like nothing is actually changing on a day to day basis. Am hoping for a population explosion...

Am getting loads of surface scum on this tank (white film that breaks into shards when you break it), as have almost no surface agitation, so have reworked the outlets quickly - five minutes with a paintstripping gun and a bending spring to change the angle - so they point up a bit more.





Am pretty pleased with how this is going. Another week until a stauro trim though I think.





Have to say ukaps makes staying in with a silent baby monitor    a lot more entertaining.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Have just realised this journal is almost exactly a year old. And in that time ukaps has taught me how to get a planted tank (mostly) working.

I'd gone from september 2009 - things just chucked in at random, no ferts, plain gravel - pretty much everything melted




…to September 2010 - ambitious on the planting, and a submarine which went down badly with the girlfriend (think she was right!) -  no ferts, plain gravel, pretty much everything melted




…to February 2011 - had sort of evolved amateur aquascaping on my own. Submarine (!) gone, external filter in place, big stone from the garden chucked in, no ferts, plain gravel, light tubes now two years old. Pretty much everything melted, or was floating on the top of the tank when I came down in the morning




…and was ready to throw in the towel… and that’s when I found ukaps… and did this





to this





to this





and then a rescape to this





and this one in another journal





with this kind of plant health:





Thought worth trying to summarise what I’ve learned. So (deep breath) here goes…


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Was there going to be a long narration at the end of your above post  ?  you said here goes..... and then nothing more. Or am I being dim ? (likely) Or are you in the middle of writing it ? LOL.

Mike HOW COME your plants grow and are CLEAN !???  My stauro is growing great but the older leaves (by which I mean a few weeks older) get dirty ?  I commented on a post I made on one of Mark's threads that it cannot be dirty water, it MUST be some form of low grade algae but I dont think its diatoms cos they cover everything don't they ?

Cheers 

OH, and by the way.... you have come a LONG way from that first tank.  And I loved the suspended wood on the side glass   AND finally, WHAT Crypt (the reddish one) was it in the middle of pic 4 from bottom ?


----------



## hotweldfire

*Re: Gestation for cherry shrimp?*

I am liking the latest incarnation



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Have to say ukaps makes staying in with a silent baby monitor    a lot more entertaining.



Another tip for nights in with the baby monitor: Kindle on your smartphone in case the monitor goes off and you find yourself sat with a baby glued to your chest in the dark for hours. Read more novels in the first 3 months of my daughter's life than I did the previous 10 years


----------



## Ady34

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Was there going to be a long narration at the end of your above post ? you said here goes..... and then nothing more. Or am I being dim ? (likely) Or are you in the middle of writing it ? LOL.


I reckon it was supposed to go above the photo transition diary   .

Mike, love the story so far, particularly tickled with 





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> pretty much everything melted





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> pretty much everything melted





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Pretty much everything melted, or was floating on the top of the tank when I came down in the morning





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> and that’s when I found ukaps...


  and especially 





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> a submarine which went down badly with the girlfriend (think she was right!)


We live and learn and what progress youve made to today...





			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> with this kind of plant health:


!
Great post Mike, enjoyed this one    
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> the older leaves (by which I mean a few weeks older) get dirty ?  AND finally, WHAT Crypt (the reddish one) was it in the middle of pic 4 from bottom ?



Is algae. Either bung in loads of amano shrimp - really interesting to see how many he has in the tanks on his YouTube channel - must be hundreds in every tank, or use less light!

Think crypt is wenditi


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Long post coming up


----------



## greenink

*What I've learned*

What I’ve learned. Most of this is totally obvious, and it’s high tech relevant only. But worth putting down here anyway!

[EDIT - have decided to keep this updated as I learn more. So is now the improved version. Now has photos from my tanks too.]

*SET UP*

*Simple rules of thumb make a design nice*
Small fish make a tank look bigger. Shoals are better than lots of different varieties. Just one or two ‘star’ fish can make a tank stand out; too many compete.





All your hardscape should ‘match’, whether that’s rocks or wood. It needs to ‘flow’, too, as if someone’s blown really hard at it from one direction. So this 





is better than this





Looking from front on shortens perspective in a tank, so the substrate angle from back to front should be as steep as you can get it. Use substrate supports (cut up plastic) and assume it will slip. That will make the tank look deeper. If you’re planning a transition into sand, get the transition as flat as possible, or put rock barriers in. Otherwise the soil will slip and this happens.





If rocks are your hardscape, embed as much as you can within the substrate. It will make less surface area for algae. 

There are various basic rules of composition that apply to anything rectangular – basically use 1/3s whenever possible and avoid neat 1/2s. The trick is to slightly break them all in interesting ways.

Make sure your plant choices complement each other. Plant in groups, with contrasting textures between groups, and ‘transition’ through big changes – so small round leaves right next to long thin leaves will look unnatural.

Plan for how the finished ‘grown’ in scape will look – most of your hardscape will disappear, apart from one or two stand out bits.

*Stable, high CO2 is totally crucial and the most common thing to get wrong*
Get CO2 as high as you can without killing fish, and keep it there. The drop checker needs to be green but on the cusp of yellow. None of that dark green nonsense. If you’re not sure, it’s not yellow enough. This is slightly too yellow, but all the fish are still fine.





This is what I usually aim for:





The trick is to start it early, get lime green at lights on, and keep the rate the same throughout. So if the drop checker gets yellower while lights are on, drop the bubble rate and start the CO2 earlier. If it gets greener, increase the bubble rate and start the CO2 later.

Your fish will tell you if the CO2 is too high: they slow down to a standstill, then go the surface and start gasping. At the optimum CO2 level your fish will still be moving around lots (albeit a little slower).

90% of my problems have come down to too little and unstable CO2.

*Distribution matters*
Plants need nutrients and CO2 flowing over their leaves to photosynthesise. The easiest way to ensure this is have huge flow (10* volume per hour). If you’re skilled, you can get away with much less as long as all the plants are out of stagnant zones.

*Less light is more*
Two T5s running the length of any normal sized tank is enough to grow anything (HC, etc). Even if they're shorter, it's ok.





Start with 5 hours a day and only ramp it up slowly. Get it all running nicely, then if you must, switch on more T5s. Otherwise algae will grow more quickly than your plants. It really is worth being patient.

*Plant heavy from the start*
If you can, plant heavily from the start. There are various reasons. One is that waste gets taken up by roots more quickly if you’ve got high plant stock, and algae has less bare substrate to get its teeth into. The best explanation I've seen is:



			
				sWozzAres said:
			
		

> Essentially there is one big difference between your plants and algae. Plants grow, algae reproduces. This means algae has to go through a phase of producing a spore and having it germinate. This is a simple or complicated process, depending on the algae but for the most part they all have one thing in common - in order for the spore to germinate, it has to settle somewhere by attaching and have light.
> 
> If your plants are healthy, no spore can settle on the leaf surface and attach in order to germinate. This massively reduces the surface area in a tank available to algae, leaving only decor and glass. Spores will end up being sucked out by regular water changes before they get a chance to attach anywhere - simple probability. If your plants aren't healthy, not only are they sites for spore settlement but they also leach nutrients that ends up as algae food.
> 
> By giving the plants what they need - nutrients, it denies the algae what it needs - real estate.
> 
> Now it becomes easier to "keep on top of things", which means taking out more algae spores than are being produced. EI with regular WC produces tanks with healthy plants and low spore count.



Clean up crew: buy way more ottos and amanos than you think plausible
The best tanks here (and Amanos) have about 30+ of each for every 300 litres. That level of algae control gives you a huge amount of headroom. There are six in this photo and you can hardly tell - they won't get rid of the stubborn BBA in this shot - that needs nuking and scrubbing, but they're on top of everything else.





Or see this for how many Amano uses. I count 15 in this one shot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... rAm8#t=55s

Or you can use Red Ramshorn snails which don't eat plants but do eat BBA





*HARDWARE*
Worth saying my starting point is get stuff out of the tank whenever possible, and to have crystal clear water. And buy the right thing in the first place!

*Filters*
They're all basically souped up buckets with a lid and pump. That's it. You're looking for ones with enough pumping force (litres per hour) for your tank, where the pump doesn't break, it maintains its flow even when the media is a bid mucky, and it's easy to clean. Worth noting that the substrate probably does as much water cleaning as the filter, if you have decent flow, as far more (of the same) bacteria live in the substrate than in your filter media, and they'll be breaking down waste constantly.

*Pumps*
A cheaper way to get more flow is to use an additional pump. Koralias go inside the tank but look horrendous. An external variable lph pump gives you loads of flexibility and can be rigged up on a separate 'loop', which gives you more options for getting the flow right.

*CO2 diffusers*
Oh the endless arguments. My recommendation is definitely an UP atomiser straight into a filter. Clearest water by far, and cheap, and has never damaged a filter I've used. CO2 needs to on/off earlier for this method though (2-3 hours). Though I'm not doing that on this tank as I had a spare AM1000 and it means I can use the external pump do get more kph behind the CO2 loop (the light blue one below).

*In general*
A bit like cars, you sort of get what you pay for, but the expensive ones are just silly money, and the cheaper ones often work just as well. Here's what's under the hood of my tank.





This means the external pump helps water changes go more quickly, and the tank will only ever drain to the bottom of the pump inlet (60% of the water), so I can leave it to drain itself (with the pump off!).

The tools you actually need are on the inside of the door, from right to left:

algae scraper
long tweezers for planting
curved scissors for trimming
net for fish and cuttings

plus a dishwashing sponge is great for wiping the glass inside. no need for anything fancy.

*Distribution*

Hopefully obvious from the diagram above, but good to draw water in from one side of the tank and cross it over to the other.

*SAVING CASH*
diy really isn’t that hard; and hardware shops are cheaper than aquatic ones. Clear 16/22 hosing is cheap, clear plastic acrylic pipe is cheap too , and combined with a pipe bending spring, a paint gun and a bit of trial and error, custom inlets and outlets that look like something 50 times the price are yours in a few minutes. There are tutorials in this and my other journal.









The same goes for hardscape rocks from a local quarry 









or substrate from a bonsai supplier





with a bit of osmocote underneath it has pretty much all the same properties as £££ aqua soil or any other posh substrate






and definitely for CO2, either from a fire extinguisher or beer gas delivered (the bottle here is 3kg for £24 delivered - 11 times cheaper than aquatic CO2.





*Easycarbo / Seachem Excel is just 1.8% solution of Glutaraldehyde*
You can buy this much more cheaply direct. The CO2 effect is because the molecule breaks down to CO2 as an end result, and on the way it kills algae, which is nice. The science bit is here. Be careful with that stuff!

*Shrimp are either cheap or not*
Cherry shrimp are the cheap way to get hundreds from just a few bought, as they’ll breed like rabbits; Amanos won’t as they need brackish water (they'll develop eggs but the shrimplets die).





Here's a pregnant cherry shrimp, fanning eggs under its abdomen





*Make your own ferts*
Use the EI tutorial here to make your own (my recipe below is based on this - 15ml dose for 73 litres, 53 for 259 litres - i.e. 10ml dose for every 50l, so if it's a 150 litre tank it's a 30ml dose)...






...mix up a job lot, and then use a large syringe with a bit of CO2 tubing attached to get the dosing done in seconds to within 1ml accuracy.





*Propagating plants is easy*
Stem plants (eg rotala) you can chop into as many pieces as you like (as long as each has three nodes) and plant each piece. The top node will sprout and you have two new plants.

Runner plants you just take the top off when they get too high (eg stauro) and plant that. It will spread on its own.

*ROUTINE*

*Feed fish less than you think*
I’ve always been too generous, and it means waste build up and more cleaning, and worse plant growth. I now feed fish once about every two days, using frozen food dropped in a floating worm dispenser, with the hole made bigger at the bottom. They’re all fine.





*Make it easy to clean*
Cleaning the tank regularly makes a big difference. So make it easy for yourself – don’t put hardscape right up against the glass, for example. Make sure you can get a siphon hose into most bits. Really cluttered wood makes this difficult.

Use a razor, not a magnetic cleaner. The cleaners can get something small stuck in them and scratch the glass. Also, an e-cloth is the best thing for cleaning the glass.

*Tinker constantly, but slowly *
What’s the fun if you’re not allowed to tinker? But don’t make lots of big changes in one go. It’s a small ecosystem and big changes mess it up. You’ll over- and under- shoot the sweet spot like a yo-yo.

*Test kits are pointless for the planted aquarium*
We're interested in levels a different order of sensitivity to normal test kits. So there's literally no point buying or using the commercially available ones. Otherwise get a proper science lot. The exception to this is probably a PAR meter or a PH meter if you really want to know what's going on with your light and CO2. But you really don't need them.

In fact, my best test kit is a shoal of red headed tetras





(Them again.) Their heads lose their colour if there's anything dodgy about the water - CO2, ammonia, anything really. 

*50% water changes, minimum, a week*
This removes nasty gunk from the tank dissolved in the water. It’s nothing to do with ‘resetting’ the fertilisers. Best to give everything a bit of a shake first. If there’s algae on the hardscape, scrub it off with a toothbrush and do substrate vacuuming too (that means a hose/vacuum about 0.5cm above the substrate until all the crud comes up). I’ve found substrate vacuuming incredibly important for healthy growth – I suspect because my tanks aren’t planted that heavily at first (cash!) and so the plants aren’t able to use the nutrients quickly enough.

Make yourself a nifty thing you can pop over the side that empties 50% of the water, and can connect to a hose to outside, so you can just leave it to drain, after switching the filters and gubbins off





*ASSORTED SCIENCE(ISH) BITS*

*Plants can’t control photosynthesis rates*
That means if the light is high, and there isn’t enough CO2 or ferts, they run on empty and start to eat themselves. So the light has to be lower than the CO2 capacity. Plants also take a while to adjust to new light levels, so raising light levels quickly means they get cross.

*Plant health determines a lot of algae bloom*

Here's wisdom from the master



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> When plants start to fail due to malnutrition they slow their growth and their cells start to rupture and they start to leech their contents (i.e spilling their guts) into the water column. Algal spores are sitting right on top of the plant membrane within the biofilm and can therefore immediately sense the change. This triggers the spores to bloom and the slowed growth allows the algae to attach itself to the plant surface. Of course there are other factors such as reduce oxygen and other things we don't even fully understand yet, but this is the basic mechanism.



*Plants are like fish when the lights are off*
They breathe oxygen. So make sure the tank has lots in it, and you’ll get better plant growth. A simple way to do this is to raise an outlet so it breaks the surface tension at night. That will also keep the surface film away. I now have it running pretty much like this all the time. 





Tom Barr has huge surface flow and says that higher surface flow raises oxygen levels - which means that fish can deal with higher CO2 levels. 



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> Think about it like this, the O2 and current rise the CO2 ceiling much higher and improved fish health and cycling of all waste MUCH faster and better.
> 
> Say you can only add 30 ppm without gassing the fish.........with good filtration, current etc, you add 1-2ppm more O2 and(or 15-30% more) and you can double the CO2 to 60ppm without issues.
> 
> It's a large jump. But it's not just 100% about adding more CO2. That is the root issue for algae and other plant issues, but there is much more to it than merely turnign a knob for Co2. :idea:



The trade off here is that higher surface flow also increases CO2 degassing, so you have to inject more.

*Gases dissolve independently of each other*
So you can have loads of oxygen with loads of CO2 - they don't take the same 'space' in water. That's part of why tanks often look particularly healthy after water changes: huge amounts of both CO2 and oxygen mean that plants photosynthesise like mad.

*Ammonia is your enemy*
Pretty much anything that produces it (dead plants, dead fish, excess fish food) needs to be out straight away. Ammonia kills everything, and sparks algal blooms. It is often produced by bacteria at the substrate munching on fish food (and poo) that has got lodged – so substrate vacuuming vitally important.

*Pearling happens because…*
…the water is saturated with oxygen. That happens either because it’s come from the tap after a water change (under higher mains pressure there’s more dissolved oxygen as well as higher CO2 levels) or because your plants are producing lots. It’s not necessary for a healthy tank but it’s nice.









*Bacteria are your friends*
They colonise the filter and the substrate, and convert nasty stuff into nice stuff. The science is beyond me. So don't clean your filter with chlorinated tap water, and use a decholorinator when you change the water in tank. Seachem Prime is the cheapest I've found.

*Plants feed from the water and the substrate*
So make sure both have nutrients. Some substrates (molar clay, etc) have no nutrients to start with but will pick them up from the water; others (gravel/sand) will stay inert; others have nutrients to start (aquasoil). 

The less nutrients in the substrate, the more need to be in the water. Dosing EI into the water is the cheapest way to make sure the plants definitely have enough. Combined with a substrate that picks up nutrients, it’s the cheapest way to grow plants. (It’s a LOT cheaper than aquasoil and branded fertilisers).

The more nutrients in the water, the more algae can grow on exposed hardscape without a clean up crew.

*Fish breathing from the surface en masse*
Is obviously bad! Often from too much CO2 or over-feeding or high nitrates in general. Raise the outlet to get more oxygen into the water, switch off / lower the CO2 and if that doesn't work in ten minutes, do a large water change.

*There are two nuclear options for algae*
Blackout the tank for 4 days: algae have less food reserves than plants, so they die while the plants survive. Radical but effective. If you haven’t sorted the underlying problem, it will come back!

For some types, dose with flourish excel, which has an algaecide ingredient. Tempting as a permanent solution, but better to solve the underlying issue.

*…sure there’s lots of other stuff.* I guess my best bit of advice is if you don’t know the answer, someone here will! But hope that's helpful for anyone reading this journal in avoiding the mistakes I made over this year   

*AND FINALLY*
Can't recommend keeping a journal enough. Really forces you think about what you're doing as you try and explain it! Plus you get to see whether things have actually changed. And the help you get is amazing. Thanks to everyone on here for teaching me all of the above - none of which I knew a year ago!


----------



## hotweldfire

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

great post


----------



## Ady34

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

I reckon i can count 9 amanos in you shrimp pic ...they are very discreet as a cuc!
I also reckon its ramshorn snails that are eating some of my plants   !
Great post, and nice addition of photos too!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## sWozzAres

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

mike, when you reset this tank did you have a mature filter from the old setup or was that reset as well? have your diatoms returned?


----------



## justjason88

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

brilliant post


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

That was a very informative post mate.  Seriously well done for doing it   Can you elaborate on "Worth noting that the substrate does as much water cleaning as the filter, if you have decent flow." ? Its not something I understand much about  Cheers.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				hotweldfire said:
			
		

> great post



Thanks - actually quite good to do - part of what makes this fun is the constant learning stuff



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> nice addition of photos too!



have added a few more!



			
				sWozzAres said:
			
		

> mike, when you reset this tank did you have a mature filter from the old setup or was that reset as well? have your diatoms returned?



the same filter (all pond solutions one), which I just swapped over. no diatoms, but have the light levels a bit lower. is running with ridiculously high CO2 (which seems fine for the cherry shrimp). substrate is new though.



			
				justjason88 said:
			
		

> brilliant post



thanks, have improved it as i've remembered some more stuff! though may be getting a bit long and photo heavy...



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> That was a very informative post mate.  Seriously well done for doing it   Can you elaborate on "Worth noting that the substrate does as much water cleaning as the filter, if you have decent flow." ? Its not something I understand much about  Cheers.



Everything above comes with the caveat that I'm no scientist! I think it's because the substrate actually has huge surface area and is covered with bacteria, just like a filter, and has water moving over it. Have amended the bit above...


----------



## webworm

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Mike, you mention an external variable speed pump, can you provide specifics ?


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

I use an Eheim compact 3000


----------



## Skatersav

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Brilliant.  I love your DIY stuff in particular, but will definitely refer to your advice on scaping if I ever brave a rebuild (my wife would go totally crazy if I did that anytime soon - next spring I think).  I have used your advice on perspex pipes on my tank.  I wasn't able to get the lilly pipe bit to work though - I didn't have enough puff to blow a bubble.  I wonder, could you please tell me what the internal and external diameters are for the perspex pipe you use?  I'm thinking that maybe the walls of the pipe I have are thicker and that's why I am unable to get the bubble to form.  Thanks again. D


----------



## faizal

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Mike the amount of thought and time you had put into that post is absolutely stunning


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*



			
				Skatersav said:
			
		

> I wasn't able to get the lilly pipe bit to work though - I didn't have enough puff to blow a bubble.  I wonder, could you please tell me what the internal and external diameters are for the perspex pipe you use?  I'm thinking that maybe the walls of the pipe I have are thicker and that's why I am unable to get the bubble to form.



16/22. The trick is to get it sagging under its own weight but not blistering. I find a bit of water inside and a pipe bending spring ensures an even spread of heat, inside and out.


----------



## spyder

*Re: Gestation for cherry shrimp?*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Am pretty pleased with how this is going. Another week until a stauro trim though I think.



You can trim it as soon as the trimmings are long enough to replant. Hack and replant taller ones during weekly maintenance, it'll soon fill in.


----------



## faizal

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Sorry for the hijack   but I know that adding O2 during lights out helps with the plant growth in a co2 injected tank but what's your thought on adding O2 during lights out period in an Excel only tank? It should provide the same benefits right?


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

yup


----------



## faizal

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Hi Mike   . If you don't mind me saying,...I think you should consider making an article of that super long post that you made regarding the basics of planted tank keeping in the tutorial sections of the forum. It would really appeal to a newbie. It would most likely be read by a larger number of people too.    A very simple and useful summary of the basics of planted tanks. I personally loved your explanation on the method of co2 tweaking. Very nicely put IMHO.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

thanks - think it's a decision for the ukaps powers that be... i'm just a lowly journal keeping minion. 

but glad people have found it useful. is really very strange to finally be in the position of having two tanks that are running nicely with minimal maintenance and healthy everything.


----------



## greenink

*shrimplets*

away for a few days. then came back to lots of little shrimp lets (my first) and algae in this tank. did a scrub and a water change (carefully!) and now can't see any. hoping they're hiding rather than dead...

Aha! Have just seen one perking about, which gives me hope.

Am going to turn down the lighting   too after my recent success with much lower light in the 259L tank. So will be running with just one Grobeam LED light (rather than that plus a T5) as am getting the start of algae issues on the hardscape, the stauro is carpeting nicely, the HC seems fine, and there just aren't that many shrimp in there... yet...


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Eleven baby shrimp pottering about. Lovely. Genocide fears receding.


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Great to hear Mike!

Do you have anything covering your filter inlet to stop them getting sucked up?


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Nope, but the inlet slits on my custom acrylic intakes are quite fine - just the width of a jigsaw blade - and the shrimplets seem to jump away as soon as they get near


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

That's ok then. I've got an in tank filter in my nano and I have a load of cherries going in tomorrow, now it's cycled. I must remember to put something over the intake!

Lets see some photos of the babies


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Seriously lacking a macro lens... Only have a canon 50mm 1.4 - lovely for portraits but not the mustard for detail close ups.


----------



## greenink

*Transparent Tank - reborn*

Now have more shrimp than I can count, of lots of different sizes. Rather satisfying. They certainly are frisky. Another couple of months and I'll have enough to transfer a wodge over to the big tank in a mass immigration of a hundred or so that I hope will be big enough to stand up to the dwarf puffers and gouramis having the odd snack. Then will keep this lot going to breed ever more. Am aiming for about 400 in the big tank. Might sell some too. 

The annoying news is that I got the CO2 too low when I went away for a week which has played havoc with the stauro. Holes everywhere. Will get CO2 right again then do a big trim. 

No macro lens is killing my shrimp photos. Can't get a good one!


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Here's some quick picks


----------



## greenink

*More pics*

Some better pics, now I've had a bit more time.

The daddy shrimp... hoping they all come out this red. 





Here's three generations in one shot - gives a sense of the scale of the babies, and these are a couple of weeks old now.





And a full tank shot. Have just trimmed the stauro and put into the big tank, so all looking a bit bare.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - reborn*

Now up to 70-80 cherry shrimp, with maybe 15 pregnant ones. Reckon I'll have 300 or so in a month. Woop! Plants not growing as much as I'd hope though...


----------



## greenink

*Amazon puffers*

Moved about 80 shrimp into the big tank, as I figure they're now at self-sustaining levels even with a bit of predation, and it's got enough plant cover for them... Here's how it's looking:





So on to phase two: moved in about 7 ottos and two South American Puffers. LOVE THEM. Here's the approach of death from above on a snail from the garden (they don't seem to have taken to the ramshorns yet):









(Sorry about focus, was a quick shot with no tripod, but it looks kind of eerie)

And here's the video (not for the squeamish), again without a tripod


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

YAY !!! Go PUFFER !!!  Thats awesome.  Gotta love em.  Inch for Inch they pack a mean punch.  Looking great too


----------



## Kristoph91

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Nice vid, nice puffer... Poor snail


----------



## tim

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Puffers are so cool


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Nice puffer but what is it with guys and watching things kill things slowly? You need smaller snails! Tadpole snails work out expensive but I've just found someone selling small pond snails by the hundreds(100@£4/200@£8) and they will be much more appropriate. Plus I'm pretty sure garden snails can carry some nasty parasites, or is that slugs?
How big will that guy get?

Cheers


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				ldcgroomer said:
			
		

> You need smaller snails! How big will that guy get?



Yup - there are lots of smaller pond and ramshorn ones there, but they're ignoring the smaller ones, so thought I'd try something else, mainly as an experiment. Was a bit grossed out to be honest.



			
				ldcgroomer said:
			
		

> How big will that guy get?



Pretty much fully grown...


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

I didn't see my puffers feed for weeks after they arrived but snail shells started littering the bottom so knew they were feeding. Now they are shameless in their pursuit of food and despite being fed twice a day the female occasionally goes for an amano shrimp after ignoring them for the first 7mths. They get their antenna nipped poor things...


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

The puffers have now slowed up enough to get a good look at them. Am pretty worried about this:






Those teeth look pretty long to me - no wonder he / she isn't eating snails... Have ordered some clove oil and the right kind of cuticle clippers. 

Am I right it's long past dentist visit time? Should I be scared? Surgery on fish isn't quite what I'd hoped this early....


----------



## greenink

*Replanting*

Bit concerned that the puffers are following their reflections along the glass too much, so have planted up a bit more heavily. What was going to be a mainly stauro tank is now Myriophyllum mattogrossense (which grows like a weed - I absolutely love it) on the far right, with Rotala roundifolia in the middle and then HC and stauro towards the left end. That should give it quite a bit more cover. Also much prefer it.

Here's the side that doesn't have horrendous photography impairing reflections in the day.





In a couple of weeks will be thick with plants I hope. The rotala and myriophyllum are going for it in my other tank, so have loads of cuttings.

Did a proper substrate vacuum in this tank for the first time in months, as the shrimp are now out. Was horrendous the amount of crud: think might explain why the stauro has never really taken off in this tank compared to the big one. Will be interesting to see if that makes a big difference - I remember it did quite a lot earlier in this journal.


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Wow, rather you than me being fish dentist. It does look a little long though. Not something you have to worry about with dwarf puffers. More plants should stop them going at the glass so much. They should be in a heavily planted tank and then they will enjoy hunting through the stems like little zeppelins. It is expensive to keep them fed on snails so whoever sold them to you has probably been feeding them bloodworms only.
Good luck!


----------



## hinch

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

if i remember puffers right they need the shells of the snails/crus to keep their beak short/worn down a worm only diet is probably the reason its so long.  also can't you just file it down with a fine metal file/coarse nail file instead of clipping it ?


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Clipping would be quicker and you would have to grip the fish quite tightly to be able to file away at it. Less traumatic for the fish...imo...


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

I agree with ldc on that.  You might check with this guy...    http://www.ukaps.org/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=8122 as he is well up on his puffers I believe


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Quick shot during water change. Accidentally had the CO2 way too high. Struggling to get it right in this tank as have switched over the way I inject it.


----------



## meejo

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

When I move house that's the first thing I'm going to do!, smash a wall down for a double viewed tank, looks the business.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				meejo said:
			
		

> When I move house that's the first thing I'm going to do!, smash a wall down for a double viewed tank, looks the business.




Why is it that this comes to mind....


----------



## meejo

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> meejo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I move house that's the first thing I'm going to do!, smash a wall down for a double viewed tank, looks the business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it that this comes to mind....
Click to expand...


haha you know it


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Bit of puffer surgery complete. He/she now has much smaller teeth.

Didn't enjoy the 'knock them out with clove oil' bit at all:


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Can we have another picture of a happy, recovered puffer? I don't like to see the poor wee thing floating belly up like that.


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Looks abit smaller than the 5-6 inches I've read it can grow to, is it a really big bowl? Wouldn't mind one of these myself but at 54ltr mt tank bit on the small side. Has it recovered?


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> Can we have another picture of a happy, recovered puffer? I don't like to see the poor wee thing floating belly up like that.

















			
				ldcgroomer said:
			
		

> Looks abit smaller than the 5-6 inches I've read it can grow to, is it a really big bowl? Wouldn't mind one of these myself but at 54ltr mt tank bit on the small side. Has it recovered?



They only get as big as your thumb, so is pretty much fully grown. This tank is only 70L to be honest. Might be a bit small for them, but they seem happy (especially now it's a bit more heavily planted with stems)





They also got a present today





Apparently they need lots of filtration as they're such messy eaters. So have this Eheim pro 3 alongside my cheap and cheerful All Pond Solutions filter. So that's a 1900 lph nominal turnover in a 70L tank - though it's nowhere near that as the pipes are reduced to 16/12mm from 22/16mm and the pipes go a long way from the filters to the tank (maybe 11 ft?) - would design it better next time, but didn't realise external filters even existed when the tank was put in!

Have also come up with a clever way of injecting CO2 into the inlet for the filter: this just goes on the pipe just before the filter intake.





That removes any need for an inline diffuser, which I find get clogged and gradually slow the rate of injection, so the CO2 is absolutely constant. It just diffuses in the APS filter and crystal clear water with a lime green drop checker is the result.


----------



## awtong

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Well done with cutting the beak.  I am not sure I would have skill or nerve to do that.  I have enough trouble with trimming the Guinea pigs claws.

Andy


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Good to see it healthy, beautiful looking fish. Might be tempted when my dwarfs Kark it! Well done on the trim too


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Hey you will be signing up for Vet camp next  Bravo that man!  And fish looks nice and happy post surgery   To be honest 70L is perfectly adequate for those wee puffers... They will be plenty happy in there.  ESPECIALLY with that new beast you bought.  Eheim Rock


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> sarahtermite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can we have another picture of a happy, recovered puffer? I don't like to see the poor wee thing floating belly up like that.
Click to expand...


 Much happier now - both me _and_ the fish. I do admire your bravery in sorting out his beak - a job well done!


----------



## Lindy

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Hi just wanted to ask if your  south american puffer left your shrimp alone? Thinking of moving my murderous dwarfs into the wee tank and looking for something for the bigger tank that won't trim the amanos antenna or eat CRS.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*

Mmm.. I moved them all out. Can pop one in and see what happens if you like.


----------



## greenink

*Re: Transparent Tank - puffers*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Mmm.. I moved them all out. Can pop one in and see what happens if you like.



Have just had a closer inspection and found a pregnant cherry and a baby cherry hiding in the thick mass of stems. So they've survived about a month.

Puff doesn't seem that hungry: he ignores any bloodworm or muscles, and I can't really tell if he goes for the snails I transfer over from other tank. Haven't seen him eat anything yet but he's still alive and there are the odd empty snail shell, so maybe he just does it at night.

My dwarf puffers left my shrimp alone.


----------



## greenink

*Blackout*

Am fed up of algae in this tank. All got a bit out of control when I played around with the CO2 injection and was too much for the 8 ottos in there to keep on top. BBA on the rocks, hair in the HC and stauro, nasty. Seeing as my other tank is going so well, need to try and replicate that form in this one - but needs a bit of a fresh start.













So am going to try my first ever blackout. Here's the cardboard going on the back.





So have just done a big water change, thrown a load of snails in to keep puff fed (hopefully) for five days (can he sniff them out in the dark?), vacuumed the substrate, blacked out the tank and switched the lights off until next Tuesday. 





Just hoping puff is alive when I decloak!





Have never done a blackout before. What do I do about lighting when it's all over? Assume not back to full strength right away...

Fingers crossed...


----------



## Westyggx

You turned the co2 off as well right Mike? Also, a blackout wont kill BBA.


----------



## BigTom

The algae on the rocks looks really good, I'd be chuffed with that


----------



## greenink

Westyggx said:
			
		

> You turned the co2 off as well right Mike? Also, a blackout wont kill BBA.



Yup CO2 off. BBA - doh! That's pretty much all I have in there, the other algae is just tiny spots really.

Feel some serious easycarbo nuking coming on after the blackout then. Is there anything else I can do? Get an electric toothbrush...


----------



## greenink

Puff still alive! Hooray.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Whoopa! Has much changed? Can we see some pics of it?


----------



## greenink

*Algae wipeout*

So this turned into a full on disaster. 

The blackout didn't really work that well. Didn't make much difference to the algae - got rid of the diatoms but that was never really the issue.





And it basically killed all the HC, most of the myriophyllum, and all the stauro.





Then I think I may have overfed puff, and skipped a water change or two. Utter disaster.













Have never had it that bad. So yesterday bit the bullet, did a big cleanup (hoiking out disgusting algae, two 80% water changes, planting in some new stems from the big tank, and removing some hardscape).

So here it is after all that:









Overall, think had too much hardscape in here too, so have removed two stones and will probably make the long flat piece smaller, going for an overall more planted look. Have learned a lot from my big tank.

Am not really here for the next month, so plan is to leave this under minimal attention, then when I've got some more time, plant it up really thickly from the big tank, with just limnophila near the intakes, rotala through the central section and then stauro towards the other end, and sculpt it with pruning. 

Lesson 1: keep things stable if you possibly can
Lesson 2: plant heavily from the outset
Lesson 3: if you blackout, be very cautious about turning the lights back on and feeding
Lesson 4: less hardscape (for me) is more, particularly in such a thin, long tank

Funny how much easier the big tank is than this one. But feel I'm ready now to sort this one out with the wisdom of my failure.

Hope that's useful for people! Yuk.


----------



## Westyggx

Happened to me as well mate did a 3 day blackout And it killed my hc and stryo


----------



## greenink

Is all recovering a bit now.


----------



## greenink

So this tank has suffered a bit from neglect. Am starting to understand why people don't keep puffers in a planted tank: they're very messy eaters which makes keeping stable water parameters a nightmare, so I keep getting algae. Also you can't have any shrimp as they eat them, so the substrate is pretty untouched and stuff settles on it.

Still, onwards and upwards. Just re-read the post in my signature about 'everything I've learned' and frankly, that's still about all I know!


----------



## Antipofish

Would Corys be ok with puffers ? Just thinking they could be useful for the substrate issue.  Also, how about using playsand as mess tends to settle on it and is easily syphoned out.  You can always add fert tabs if you feel thats necessary.  Just an idea


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


> The algae on the rocks looks really good, I'd be chuffed with that


 Same here. I'm not a great fan of black-outs, it is back to treating the symptom. Having said that I have BBS in all the tanks that don't have Red Ramshorns, which aren't an option for this one.


> Am starting to understand why people don't keep puffers in a planted tank: they're very messy eaters which makes keeping stable water parameters a nightmare, so I keep getting algae.


A much higher plant mass is the answer to stability, and stability is the key to long term tank maintenance. That is why I like floaters, they are easy to thin and show a pretty quick response to nutrients, because they aren't CO2 limited.
That would also allow you to turn off the CO2, and low-tech gives you one less parameter to juggle. 


> Also, how about using play-sand as mess tends to settle on it and is easily syphoned out


That's what I do. Will the puffer eat even MTS? if they are too crunchy for him they help with substrate cleaning.

cheers Darrel


----------



## gmartins

I have used 3-day black-outs with great success to get rid of a persistent problem with BGA. No other plants suffered. Actually, they all grew while covered.

IME, a black-out has little to no effect for algae other than BGA and maybe diatoms.

GM


----------



## jojouk

Really good journal


----------



## jojouk

great stuff,


----------



## greenink

Have popped in four biggish corys (melanistus) that were in the local fish shop tank with some Amazon puffers and seemed to be ok, and have added a couple more puffers. So now have five puffers, four corys, a few ottos and that's about it. Corys have made a big difference to the substrate - properly clean now as they disturb stuff enough for it to be taken away, but aren't uprooting plants.

Will add a video of feeding time in a bit - so satisfying!


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Nice one Mike, Looking forward to it


----------



## greenink

Here's a video. Love 'em. (Watch in 720 resolution for best view).



A nice little snapshot






And since this is a 'warts and all' journal, here's how the tank's currently looking




Hasn't had any love for a long time, so there's still quite a bit of algae. Am going to get an excel drive on to zap it, and then be a bit more careful. Feel confident can manage it now the corys are in there dusting everything up a bit.

Have made much more of a jungle for the puffers since this was shot - big bushes of rotala (harvested from my big tank) at each end of the tank and then a moss mountain in the middle. They're clever little fish and they need more distraction than most.


----------



## Antipofish

cant see the video it says its private !


----------



## greenink

Sorry! Should now work


----------



## tim

Nice video mike you have some brave corries trying to share food there  really nice fish mate I keep a small group of Pygmy puffers messy little buggers takes dedication to keep them in a planted tank hats off to you mate


----------



## greenink

Here's some quick pics post mini-rescape

Front and back, now look quite different, so more interesting. Algae already on the retreat, and hopefully that moss will grow to be a monster in the middle, with the rotala thickening out a lot. Want to go for the full on jungle look. Once the rotala is properly embedded, I'll trim to make it a nice curve and all that jazz...









Nice little cory (melanistus), who'll be keeping my substrate nice and dusted.





And a close up of the bottom right, just seeded roughly with some grass. Might change this for some eleucharis once I get the CO2 sorted. But this stuff has been living happily with minimal attention, so why not stick with what's working ok...




And finally, one of the bigger inhabitants.



This is sort of my experiment tank (as this journal shows). So am now basically testing whether it's possible to have a half-decent planted tank with puffers. CO2 is all over the place, so will be slowly cranking that up over the next few days. Fingers crossed - no way I'm gassing those puffers...


----------



## greenink

Looking at this a bit more, am going to get hold of some Eleocharis acicularis for the mid section open areas. Think would help provide contrast and be long enough for the puffers to glide through like the aquatic tigers they are.

Any tips on getting it to thrive?


----------



## Antipofish

mikeappleby said:


> Looking at this a bit more, am going to get hold of some Eleocharis acicularis for the mid section open areas. Think would help provide contrast and be long enough for the puffers to glide through like the aquatic tigers they are.
> 
> Any tips on getting it to thrive?


 
Plenty of CO2


----------



## Westyggx

mikeappleby said:


> Looking at this a bit more, am going to get hold of some Eleocharis acicularis for the mid section open areas. Think would help provide contrast and be long enough for the puffers to glide through like the aquatic tigers they are.
> 
> Any tips on getting it to thrive?



Got some for sale mate


----------



## greenink

Will grab your Ammania sp. 'Bonsai' instead I think... Really pleased with how this tank is looking now. Algae noticeably sorted even compared to the picture above. The combination of lots of water changes (50% every other day), Easycarbo at 1ml for every 10 litres, getting the hand in there to rough up the leaves, and corys to mess about on the substrate has got rid of it all. 

Will do a proper trim of the rotala when it hits the top properly, one end then the other.


----------



## Lindy

Those puffers are beautiful. Are they noticably happier in a large group? I would like some but think my 54ltr could take a maximum of 2 and I read they like a large group...Jealous....


----------



## jack-rythm

how much do you reckon I could get in a 91L tank?


----------



## greenink

I've got 5 in that tank and it's 70L. They seem happy enough - as long as its heavily planted has good flow and has a bit of shade. Think in the Amazon they live in fast streams and hang about under logs eating crustaceans. So mimic that! They prefer being in groups for sure - bit like corys.


----------



## jack-rythm

sweet ill go for 7-8 then  thanks for the reply buddy, love these fish so much! I dont actually know too much about them so I need to start learning before I invest.. What do you feed yours on? whats your food regime?


----------



## greenink

Important: they jump! Found one on the kitchen counter and one on the floor yesterday, luckily managed to scoop up and back in without too much damage. So today means rigging up a better cover...

I feed frozen mussels, bit of tropical frozen mix, peas, the odd shrimp from my big tank. Their favourite is snails, but can't seem to get these growing fast enough in my big tank - the dwarf puffers in that just eat them right off.


----------



## jack-rythm

Cool thanks for the advice... I didn't really want a cover but I guess it's not the end of the world cutting some clear acrylic!

Cheers  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## greenink

Quick update. Trimmed stems hard today (have realised haven't been trimming anywhere near low enough, ever - see my other recent thread), replanted rotala cuttings, added Ammania sp. bonsai, and added Eleocharis acicularis, which I've never grown before and was a bargin £3.50 for a 9 cm pot.

Here's the kitchen side this morning



And now




And the living room side this morning




And here it is now



Quick photos as water hadn't cleared, and did a lot of rubbing fingers through moss etc to get crud out. This is just after water change, straight off camera.

Looking forward to that grass growing in, and think the rotala should now get properly bushy. Slight bad point: the puffers really aren't happy that rotala has been chopped so low - they're doing quite a bit of glass pacing - although seems better if I drop the light to just 2 T5s, rather than a Grobeam strip and one T5, which is what it's had for a while. Will run it with lower light and CO2, and see if they prefer it. Might also keep that algae in check.


----------



## greenink

Here it is a month later. Moss has really grown in a lot, and rotala stems have just been trimmed back - was a veritable forest before. Now expecting the stems to burgeon forth in proper thick clumps. Have replaced the filter covers with metal shrimp guards - much easier to slip on and off and clean.




Puffers are great, though definitely a challenge with moss: they're such messy eaters the tank gets pretty cruddy quickly. This tank seems to need a couple of ml of easycarbo a day to keep the algae at bay - think almost certainly due to bits of food getting everywhere and no shrimp to clean up.

Almost tempted to get a hydor to up the flow a bit if they didn't look so awful. But overall this tank now needs practically no effort and looks cheery - my big tank is the one I'm trying to get up to proper aquascaping standards...


----------



## greenink

Am going to try something slightly "brave" next... This set up (see really early on) has the filters a long way - maybe 10 ft - away from the tank, as it's the only way I could make it work originally. And it's really hard to get decent flow, which is proving a problem with the puffers being so messy....

But if I drill through the bottom, I can have the filters directly underneath.! So am at some point going to attempt to drill the bottom of the tank. Will take me quite a while to assemble the parts and the willpower / gumption.

Here's the best guide I can find:  Tank Build - From The Very Beginning - Page 11 - Practical Fishkeeping Forum

Any tips?


----------



## greenink

In advance of the big drill, have been working out the new puffer-orientated hardscape. Will admit to being very inspired by George's latest TMC signature journal with manzanita curling over and around petrified wood. I've never done a wood/stone combination and so have had a play with various bits of redmoor and purple schist stone lying around.



And after about half an hour and sawing bits and pieces - which I never realised before is completely crucial to getting a decent layout and twisting around rocks - and ordering some aquarium sealant on my phone to expand my range of options, came up with this (the photo is cropped to the size of the tank):



Was pretty pleased with myself as a starter for ten: the rock looks substantial but is actually very thin, which is important as this tank is only 270mm wide, so was thinking it would actually work from both sides without being a nightmare to clean (i.e. you can get to the edge with a scraper...) Colours come out much more vividly underwater too, and that's a good piece of purple schist and thought could accent with other similar stones if needed in the final layout. And was thinking would clearly be sloped pretty steeply from high up on the right to low on the left...

... so was feeling pretty happy with myself and went to have a cup of tea. Then a horrible thought struck me, and I went inside to have a proper look at George's original hardscape from weeks ago - and realised I'd basically just copied it from memory  But not as well, obviously. Don't know whether to feel pleased at my memory for a 'scape or embarrassed at my almost flagrant, slightly crap plagiarism. Does show how a good scape sticks in the mind though.




Then I thought it's interesting to compare George's scape with my quick attempt in a slightly more formal way using 1/3s and triangles. This is a big file (sorry, but thought worth it), so please click at will to enlarge. Really shows why George's works and is better in almost every way. (Though please take into account mine is just a quick play about).



Embarrassment over and lesson learned! So will stick with some (less derivative!) version of this though. The twistiness of the redmoor roots should provide more interest for the puffers than my current iwagumi-esque set up, as well as giving real potential for some short depth of field shots. Here's a couple of random ones to show what I mean.


----------



## Lindy

With my puffer tank I've learned; no moss, branches left bare except for java fern which is easy to thin out, no hair grass(holds crap) And other planting is large leaved plants such as crypts which allows for better water flow and takes debris to the intakes. You seem to be doing everything the exact opposite! That is lovely wood which I think if the branches went more upwards the puffers could weave between them. Currently it doesn't look like there would be space to do that now and planting  would hide the wood further.
If you had the wood upright you could have alot of planting on the wood freeing up more substrate to allow flow around the base of the wood and plants. I may be talking crap, it's been a long day with a snotty toddler so feel free to 'dislike' and ignore my ramblings...Lovely puffers btw..


----------



## greenink

All great advice. I've come to pretty much the same conclusions. Error, trial, error, that's my way. 

Was thinking largely Anubias nana, maybe carpet of stauro - plants it's easy to shake clean without dislodging.


----------



## PM

Just seen this and been reading lots. Great journal. Though I was surprised at this:

"*The more nutrients in the water, the more algae can grow on exposed hardscape* without a clean up crew."

Is this really true?


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## greenink

Thanks. Think I was saying that with EI you face more of a risk of algae growing on exposed hardscape than with very lean dosing and a rich substrate. That means you have less room for error with light (i.e. you should err on the safe side). But I still like it and use it. 

Think this is right, but others will no doubt have views!

I'd say now that light and CO2 were more important than I'd realised early on (despite everyone here saying it all the time). 

Have seen amazing hardscape cleanliness results with cutting light to 6 hours a day: rocks now almost completely clean with no scrubbing ever and just cherry shrimp and ottos. 

Also worth saying totally stable CO2 though our photoperiod is vital for keeping BBA away.


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## jack-rythm

Hi mate, 

To start I wanna say its a great journal  nice one for being brave and coming up against George like that  Its great the way you have done it. People can see how angles, perspectives and positioning is all very important.



mikeappleby said:


> Think I was saying that with EI you face more of a risk of algae growing on exposed hardscape than with very lean dosing and a rich substrate.


 
I think its important to say though fertz have absolutely nothing to do with algae blooms, this is simply in a nutshell  too much light, too little co2. I see you have suggested that the two important things are lighting and co2, your almost there yes but light is not as important as dosing the tank correctly and making sure the tank has a decent fluid flow distribution. If you can dose the tank and supply the tank with a consistant level of co2 ( no fluctuations) distributing this evenly, then the lighting can come last. of course lighting is important but this is the least importnat of the three. 

Overall I think you can use what ever fertz you like, this wont cause or effect algae blooms. Consistency with anything added to the tank is the key  

You have lovely wood mate is that redmoor?


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## greenink

Yup redmoor. Thanks - have posted in another thread lots more hardscape analysis like this (link is also in my signature).


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## greenink

Ok, so here's a quick update. Tank is growing in, but not really hardscaped as am waiting for bits and pieces to arrive for drilling. Slightly irritatingly, is the picture of health.



And the puffers are loving it




Just been fed, so plump belly




Also took a video at feeding time - will post it up in a few minutes


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## greenink

Here's a quick video


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## KeyboardWarrior

Just read your thread mate really informative and a good read, I think that some of the parts where you do big summaries and go into detail on various things should be taken out and put in the tutorial section I know that me and many other new comes would find this really useful and it would get looked at a lot more


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## greenink

Thanks - at some point might do a compendium of what I've learned - but want to get a tank looking top notch first!


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## greenink

Ran out of CO2, and as I'm shortly stripping this tank down to drill it and replumb it back in, have decided to run as low tech. So turned off the T5 lights and just running with one Grobeam 500, which has one broken LED. Haven't done a water change in weeks, stopped dosing, and just bung in some frozen bloodworm every now and then. Filters give almost no flow as haven't cleaned in ages and the pipe work is way too low and there's no visible movement in any of the plants. 

Irritatingly, the tank is looking healthier than ever, and certainly much better than the bigger tank. (The bit of mini landscape rock is in there to test how it looks under the lights. Have decided rescape post-drilling will be a simple hair grass / seriyu iwagumi).

Here's the front.



And the back


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## faizal

Hi mate. Don't feel bad about bumming off another's idea in aquascaping. Besides your threads have helped many of us beginners understand the complicated methods of aquascaping. You make it sound so funny & easy to understand. Besides we all have to start somewhere. The plant health looks great in this tank.
Looking forward to the rescape.


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## greenink

Here's a sneak preview of the hardscape I'm thinking about for this tank's next iteration (mocked up in a box in the garden)... 



Will be very simple hairgrass and perhaps a small clump of Hemianthus micranthemoides with lots of cherry shrimp to start with, and a small shoal of small fish added later - probably rasboras - going for a very classical look.


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## greenink

Puffers have gone back to the LFS  so can now strip down the tank. Will be sad to see them go, but with only two tanks couldn't really justify it. Plus they're a hassle to feed when I go on holiday.

SO that means I have a load of Xmas moss (every bit you see in the pictures above) and a big crypt that won't be making the transition to the new tank, or going to my bigger tank. It's all wrapped up in an envelope and ready to be posted to the first person that wants it and is prepared to make a donation (any amount, whatever you think reasonable once you open the parcel) to UKAPS and post it in the thread. You'll also get some riccia (tiny bit) and elocharis ac. that I can't be bothered to separate.

Just let me know!


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## greenink

Moss is gone...


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## greenink

It begins... Tank did look like this:



Then this



Then this - blackboard paint to sides this time - was white before and getting horrible reflections - the puffers did way too much reflection following for my liking.



Then the brave bit - drilling the bottom. Surprisingly easy to do with a special drill bit, just using the weight of the drill, patience, some kid's toys as blocks to keep the drill in the right place, and some water in the bottom to keep it all cool and not cracking. Here's one of two...



Nearly plumbed in the new fittings and then will be good to go. And hopefully flow will be vastly improved as it won't be nearly 10 feet from tank to filter!


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## greenink

So the tank is back in place



With the bottom drilled, tank connectors plumbed in and a cheap camping mat underneath, cut to size



Bit of miracle grow (osmocote) scattered in the bottom as the molar clay substrate's inert but with high cation exchange capacity, so will soak up those slow release nutrients and hopefully bacteria will nuke the ammonia before it does any damage! Who needs ADA posh stuff, eh?



In goes some fresh substrate (larger grain size molar clay) in the bottom, and the old fine grade substrate on top



(Think have put a bit too much in actually! It's not like I'm planning on plants with big root systems...) Then a bit of a play around with the five bits of mini landscape rock I have - they're all the same size which makes it a lot harder... And tricky
to do a layout that looks good from one side



And another at the same time



Any comments or suggestions really welcome. (The white pipes are going as soon as some clear plastic tubing arrives in the right dimensions!) Also, how do I stop the reflections? Have never had a black background before and seems to reflect everything...


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## faizal

Hi Mike,... You've surely truly a lot of your time in preparation for this tank. The hardscape looks promising IMHO . In reference to the first picture,..i think you should slant down that big rock on the left further down a little & to the right. The right side looks a bit off to my eyes but then as we all have come to learn,...to each his own preference What plans do you have for the plant list?


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## greenink

Thanks - very simple only hairgrass to begin with, then maybe some hemianthus stems


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## greenink

My LFS only had HC, so here goes nothing...




Have never had real success with this before. So here's what I'm trying:
- anchoring with rock wool, as you can see
- pretty big portions, just shoved in by hand with none of that tweezer nonsense
- no fauna
- loads of osmocote in inert substrate (molar clay)
- EI dosing
- CO2 at toxic levels (yellow DC)
- triple dosing home-made excel (gluteraldehyde 3% solution)

And in it goes one side


And the other



That's five pots worth. Will probably make a new filter outlet - cut this one a bit short.

Even though these are crappy photos with no tripod etc, am pleased by the black paint to the sides - much less distracting than the white before. And the plumbing seems to be ok... Fingers crossed. Though if it doesn't take, I'll just replace with hairgrass, which at least I know I can grow.


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## greenink

Have been insanely busy for ages, so this has pretty much been on autopilot for a long time. Shrimps have multiplied a lot, and the HC has settled in - the first time I've ever been able to grow it.


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## tim

Just had a little look on your flickr mike hc has really taken off  really good layout to look so good from both sides mate good job.


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## greenink

The end!





This tank has finally come out of the wall - was just too impractical having it mounted like that, too narrow to 'scape properly, and too hard to photograph! But huge thanks to everyone here on ukaps who helped me go from total novice to someone who vaguely knows what they're doing. And hope this has been useful to people.

But that's not the end of my aquascaping... Here's the next chapter: Matchstick Brink - 36*22*26 | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## aliclarke86

That link seems to take me to "where to buy in Ireland" thread on tapatalk... Strange 

Its fine on my browser though 



Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


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## Nutty

:O this was the first journal i read on here! was great watching the process so a big thank you!... one question... what are you doing about the hole in the wall?


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## greenink

Cookbooks...


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## Madhav

Hmmm, interesting journey, took few days to complete the reading.
liked the way you admit your mistakes.

will follow you to next article and see how is it going....


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