# Otto's Tank Mates Help



## Tommy (3 Feb 2019)

Hi everyone, I am wanting to put a school of otto's in my tank as I need a clean up crew in there but I am unsure if they will be ok with the fish I already have? Current stock is:- 

Apisto Agassizii fire red
Apisto Macmasteri
German Blue Ram
2 Nannacara Anomala
Pelvicachromis Subocellatus Matadi or Pelvicachromis Taeniatus (forgot which one it is)
3 Empire Gudgeon

I would also like some shrimps but again not sure if any would be ok with these fish?
I plan on putting a school of other fish but I am running out of ideas as to what, suggestions more than welcome.

Here's a pic of my Pelvicachromis, someone might be able to identify him. Thanks


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## dw1305 (3 Feb 2019)

Hi all,





Tommy said:


> Pelvicachromis Taeniatus


Looks like a male _taeniatus_


Tommy said:


> Apisto Agassizii fire red
> Apisto Macmasteri
> German Blue Ram
> 2 Nannacara Anomala
> ...


I think you well do to make that work long term.

cheers Darrel


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## Conort2 (3 Feb 2019)

How long you had these fish together and what size tank is it? I think in the long term this amount of dwarves kept together is going to cause you problems. As for having them with shrimp? I think you'd only be ok with amanos.

Most of the smaller tetras would be fine, however can provide a better suggestion when we know your tank size.

Cheers

Conor


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## Tommy (3 Feb 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I think you well do to make that work long term.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hi, what do you mean by that Darrel? 



Conort2 said:


> How long you had these fish together and what size tank is it? I think in the long term this amount of dwarves kept together is going to cause you problems. As for having them with shrimp? I think you'd only be ok with amanos.
> 
> Most of the smaller tetras would be fine, however can provide a better suggestion when we know your tank size.
> 
> ...



The agassizii fire red and empire gudgeon have been together months, the macmasteri was added 3 weeks ago and the ram, pelvichromis and nannacara a week ago. Tank is 240ltrs 4ft long.


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## Conort2 (4 Feb 2019)

Tommy said:


> Hi, what do you mean by that Darrel?
> 
> 
> 
> The agassizii fire red and empire gudgeon have been together months, the macmasteri was added 3 weeks ago and the ram, pelvichromis and nannacara a week ago. Tank is 240ltrs 4ft long.


I think you may be pushing your luck with that many dwarves long term. Your original stocking with agassizi and macmasteri would've been fine. But you now potentially have a breeding pair of nannacara which will be very aggressive when spawning and a west African dwarf which will end up much larger and potentially more aggressive than the others.

Cheers

Conor


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## dw1305 (4 Feb 2019)

Hi all,





Tommy said:


> what do you mean by that Darrel?





Conort2 said:


> But you now potentially have a breeding pair of nannacara which will be very aggressive when spawning and a west African dwarf which will end up much larger and potentially more aggressive than the others.


Exactly what @Conort2  says. 

cheers Darrel


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## Tommy (4 Feb 2019)

Conort2 said:


> I think you may be pushing your luck with that many dwarves long term. Your original stocking with agassizi and macmasteri would've been fine. But you now potentially have a breeding pair of nannacara which will be very aggressive when spawning and a west African dwarf which will end up much larger and potentially more aggressive than the others.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Conor





dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Exactly what @Conort2  says.
> 
> cheers Darrel




The nannacara are both males mate, so far aggression wise the agassizii is the worst he will chase every fish out of his space except the pelvichromis, the macmasteri is second he chases everything apart from the agassizii and pelvichromis. The rest of them have not shown any aggression apart from the ram having a go at the pelvichromis who shy's away.

The aggression of the apistos is what I would expect as they are quite feisty, the pelvichromis I would say is about fully grown, he is 3" + and has shown no aggression.


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## Tommy (5 Feb 2019)

So are otto's out of the question with this many dwarfs? Is there anything else I could put in as a clean up crew?


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## dw1305 (5 Feb 2019)

Hi all, 





Tommy said:


> So are otto's out of the question with this many dwarfs?


I kept _Otocinclus_ with _Apistogramma cacatuoides, _and they basically just ignored them. I haven't tried any other cichlids with _Otocinclus. 
_
I've tried Cherry Shrimps with _A. cacatuoides, _but it was <"absolute carnage">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (5 Feb 2019)

dw1305 said:


> 've tried Cherry Shrimps with _A. cacatuoides, _but it was <"absolute carnage">


Not from the apisto's viewpoint  just a open 24/7 buffet


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## tam (5 Feb 2019)

Maybe snails would be a safer option for algae clean up?


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## Tommy (5 Feb 2019)

tam said:


> Maybe snails would be a safer option for algae clean up?



I don't want my tank over run with snails, I was thinking of adding some nerite snails (not sure if these can clean the leaves of java ferns?) I believe these cant breed in freshwater? I would consider other snails as well so long as they don't breed and over run the tank. Suggestions very welcome if there are any.

I have a problem with brown algae on the leaves of my plants, its very time consuming cleaning every leaf one at a time which is why I need a clean up crew. Thankfully that is the only issue I have with algae.


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## Conort2 (5 Feb 2019)

Tommy said:


> I don't want my tank over run with snails, I was thinking of adding some nerite snails (not sure if these can clean the leaves of java ferns?) I believe these cant breed in freshwater? I would consider other snails as well so long as they don't breed and over run the tank. Suggestions very welcome if there are any.



Nerites would do the trick, however beware they will cover hardscape with little eggs that look like sesame seeds. I believe clithon snails are less inclined to do this, they're basically mini nerites. 

Fingers crossed your cichlids keep behaving themselves, however you have to be prepared that that could change at any moment. Especially once they settle in more and establish territories. I believe the gudgeons are also dwarf cichlid like in behaviour so this could exaggerate any problems further. 

Cheers

Conor


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## Tommy (5 Feb 2019)

Conort2 said:


> Nerites would do the trick, however beware they will cover hardscape with little eggs that look like sesame seeds. I believe clithon snails are less inclined to do this, they're basically mini nerites.
> 
> Fingers crossed your cichlids keep behaving themselves, however you have to be prepared that that could change at any moment. Especially once they settle in more and establish territories. I believe the gudgeons are also dwarf cichlid like in behaviour so this could exaggerate any problems further.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that mate, I will look into clithon snails. I do have another tank that I am on setting up so if all hell breaks loose I will have somewhere to move fish around.


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## Tommy (7 Feb 2019)

Been looking for clithon snails, would these ones be ok? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Assorted...h=item3d7e236465:g:590AAOSwx2FbyHZs:rk:9:pf:0 and these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEBRA-TH...=item3f04506019:g:D3EAAOSwNSxVP5w2:rk:10:pf:0 Cant seem to find them anywhere other than ebay.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (17 Feb 2019)

Whilst I do agree there are a lot of dwarf cichlids going on here, for what it's worth I think the otos would be fine. I have them with dwarf cichlids and even dwarf puffers and they largely get totally ignored.


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## jameson_uk (17 Feb 2019)

Tommy said:


> Been looking for clithon snails, would these ones be ok? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Assorted...h=item3d7e236465:g:590AAOSwx2FbyHZs:rk:9:pf:0 and these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEBRA-TH...=item3f04506019:g:D3EAAOSwNSxVP5w2:rk:10:pf:0 Cant seem to find them anywhere other than ebay.


I have got the last few from Pets at Home 
They always have them (in varying levels of health) but I have five across my tanks who are all doing well.

I have also had some from Pro Shrimp (https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/211-snails)


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## Tommy (17 Feb 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Whilst I do agree there are a lot of dwarf cichlids going on here, for what it's worth I think the otos would be fine. I have them with dwarf cichlids and even dwarf puffers and they largely get totally ignored.



Hi Matt, Ive seen your tank with the dwarfs somewhere on the forum, it was your tank that led me to choose different dwarfs, my initial plan was to have an apisto tank with several sub species. So far theres no real bullying or anything just the usual this is my space kind of thing. I am worried I put ottos in and all hell breaks loose and they get bullied.


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## Tommy (17 Feb 2019)

jameson_uk said:


> I have got the last few from Pets at Home
> They always have them (in varying levels of health) but I have five across my tanks who are all doing well.
> 
> I have also had some from Pro Shrimp (https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/211-snails)



Thanks I will have a look in pets at home. I never even thought they would have them. Last time I looked pro shrimp didn't have any, will look again.


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