# Having another bash



## DEL 707 (9 Jun 2010)

I've had my tank up and running for over a year now and it's been pretty much up and down, truth be told, more downs then ups, algea has been a constant problem and recently a family member knocked up my CO2 unit when they thought they turned it down. Of course by the time I noticed I lost all my cardinal tetras and my cherry shrimp.

That was pretty much the last nail in the coffin for me, but the friends and family have convinced me to keep on trying, so I've come crawling back here for help.  :silent: 

Here's a link to a thread I made last year
"In need of assistance"

And here's a quick break down of my tank

Equitpement

Juwel Rio 125 tank
 Using the internal filter
 2 x 24W Plant pro grow T5 lights (was 4), running time 2PM-9PM
 Pressurised CO2 with Japanese style plate diffuser, running time 1PM-8PM
 Koralia Nano 900 powerhead

Fish

 2 x Blue Dwarf Gourami
 4 x Sterbai Cory
 
Plants

 Alternanthera Reineckii 'Pink' (Roseafolia)
 Ceratophyllum Demersum (Foxtail)
 Hygrophila Polysperma (Rosanervig)
 Monosolenium Tenerum
 Taxiphyllum Barbieri (Vasicularia)
 Vallisneria Nana
 Vallisneria Spiralis

Basically algea is still a huge problem, today I had the day off work and proceded with "Operation: massacre", pulling out what ever algea I could and cutting down anything that was infested with the stuff.
 The end result was somewhat brutal.






While my nitrite and ammonia are 0, my nitrates have risen to 20.

Maintence rise, I do a 50% water change every fortnight, it used to be every week, but I've gotten lazy.
Daily I dose 2-3ml of Tropica Plant Nutrition +.

My bulbs are over a year old now, so again I've been slack replacing them, but I went to get my blahblahblahblah in gear and place an order this week. I was thinking of getting 2 more Plant pro grow T5's again, but the only reason I piicked them out in the 1st place is because the name sounded right. Are there any better recommendations?

I've also nearly run out of Plant +, so I was going to order some more at the same time, but again I was wondering if there was another different type of fertiliser I could try?

CO2 has been a long running problem for me, I just have a standard CO2 tank that I rent out from BOC, but I've never been able to get my CO2 levels right, If I turn it up high enough to make my drop checker go slightly green, the fish start gasping, so I always have to keep it down low and colour blue.
 In my old thread someone mentioned adding liquid CO2, but it's something I never explored, would this be worth trying out? And what is a good liquid Co2?

The tank's infested with snails and flatworms, what measures can I take to reduce their population.

Lastly I have a sick Sterbai, he's been like this for sometime, but I was hesitant to add medications while I had shrimp in the tank, which isn't the case anymore.
Here's a quick pic of him.





Thankfully it has never spread to any of the other fish, but if people can recommend me a medication to try, I can add it to the order.

I appreciate any and all replies.


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## ceg4048 (10 Jun 2010)

Hi,
This tank looks in very sad shape.  When I see tanks like this I want to run out of the house screaming and immediately call either the World Health Organization (WHO) or The A-Team, featuring Mister T. I want him to throw something at you and call you names.

Certainly, one of the reasons for algae as a constant companion is your reluctance to keep it clean with more frequent and large water changes. Algae really like dirty tanks. I assume you're not doing a good job of cleaning your filter as well? BGA love that.

Your priorities are upside down, and that's why the health of the tank is more down than up. I mean, let's get real. When I read this I wanted to scream:


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> ..Maintence rise, I do a 50% water change every fortnight, it used to be every week, but I've gotten lazy.
> Daily I dose 2-3ml of Tropica Plant Nutrition +.


Try stop being lazy. That always works. Do 2-3 50% water changes per week.

If someone knocked up my CO2 unit I would knock them upside their head with a crickett bat and that would be the end of that problem.

You haven't really identified exactly what species of algae is present, and that makes it very tough to troubleshoot effectively. It looks like you have either GDA or GSA on the glass, but I can't really see beyond that. Perhaps you could clarify?



			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> My bulbs are over a year old now, so again I've been slack replacing them, but I went to get my blahblahblahblah in gear and place an order this week. I was thinking of getting 2 more Plant pro grow T5's again, but the only reason I piicked them out in the 1st place is because the name sounded right. Are there any better recommendations?


Yeah, here's a recommendation;
The absolutely last thing you should be doing to this tank is to be thinking about getting new bulbs. The bulbs that you already have are fine and there is no need to get new bulbs just because they are a year old.

You need to fix your CO2. THIS should absolutely be your top priority. Forget about bulbs mate. Change the timing of your CO2 to something like 2 or 3 hours before lights on. Then turn it off 2 or 3 hours before lights off.

It's no point having CO2 if you're not going to do a good job of distribution. Can you see where that diffuser is? Mount it much lower down near the bottom and perhaps mount the Koralia just above it so that the Koralia swallows the CO2 and spits it out with force. You have to do a better job of distribution. Try different things to get the gas around the tank. Are you using 4dkH water in the dropchecker? If not then you will have a false reading. When you have better distribution you will solve a lot of these problems. You may want to think about ditching the internal filter and getting a nice cannister filter, but if nothen you have to stop pointing the outflow to the left as you have it here. It should be pointing towards the front of the tank so that it does not disrupt the flow from that spraybar (is that what that is?) You need to get the injection rate to a point as green as you can. I simply do not accept that the dropchecker has to be blue. You may as well not have CO2 if that's the case. The Koralia should also be pointing towards the front. Can't you see that the flow from the Koralia is canceling out the flow from that internal spud on the right? You may as well not have any flow at all. All flows must point in the same direction so that their energies are additive and not conflictive.

You can also try supplementing with Liquid carbon products such as Excel, EasyCarbo or the Aquaessentials equivalent. This will make more CO2 available to the plants and at the same time will be toxic to algae. Be careful though as some people report problems with Vallis. Liverworts and Bladderworts also do not like these products.

Do you see that tall stem in the front of the tank on the right? Tall stems do not belong in the front. that is both an aquascaping feaux pax as well as a circulation cardinal sin. either keep that plant no more than 2 inches tall or move it to the back, or get rid of it.



			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I've also nearly run out of Plant +, so I was going to order some more at the same time, but again I was wondering if there was another different type of fertiliser I could try?


If you're on a budget you could try the dry powder route.



			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> While my nitrite and ammonia are 0, my nitrates have risen to 20.


Who cares? Let me guess; Did you measure the nitrate value with a test kit? Well, if so then chances are the actual values can just as easily be 0.2ppm. If you actually had 20ppm NO3 that might be the good news. Stop testing because it's not helping you . Ammonia and Nitrite are never actually zero in a tank, because they are constantly being produced.

Anyway, these are the first steps to recovery. Also, keep reading...

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (10 Jun 2010)

> You haven't really identified exactly what species of algae is present, and that makes it very tough to troubleshoot effectively. It looks like you have either GDA or GSA on the glass, but I can't really see beyond that. Perhaps you could clarify?


If you look at the other thread I linked, you can see pictures of the algea.



> It's no point having CO2 if you're not going to do a good job of distribution. Can you see where that diffuser is? Mount it much lower down near the bottom and perhaps mount the Koralia just above it so that the Koralia swallows the CO2 and spits it out with force. You have to do a better job of distribution.


I used to have it setup like that, but the problem was that the gas used to get stuck in the powerhead and make a god awful rattling sound. Which is why at the moment it's positioned below the filter powerhead.

As for the CO2, I don't know what to say, I used to have 2 CO2 drop checkers in the tank, 1 I bought and the other came with the CO2 setup, if I turned it up high enough to get both of them green, the fish would gasp and most of them would move to the surface.

For flow.



That's the current setup, the koralia at the front is pointing downwards to the gravel.
Are you saying I should put it on the back glass pointing towards the front?


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## bigmatt (10 Jun 2010)

Hi there,
well done for sticking with it!  ceg4048 is invariably (and infuriatingly) right!
As i understand it powerheads& filter outputs don't create linear flow, as you've indicated in your diagram, more a "cone shaped" output.  Therefore your present setup means the flow form each is fighting each other.  If you put your powerhead on the right so that the flow is all in the same direction it should help. It will also help with co2 distribution.  it does seems weird that your fish are gasping at such low levels of co2.  As Clive says be sure to check that your drop checker has bromo blue in 4dkh water, as not using 4dkh will give you false indications of co2 levels.  I'm not familiar with Juwel filters but is there any way you could position your co2 diffuser inside the filter to achieve better dissolution and distribution?
Might be best to rip it all down and start again - know it seems a big step but sometimes it's easier to start again than spend ages sorting problems.  
As ceg4048 says, sort out your co2, nutrients and change your water regularly and you should be alright
Have fun - hope this helps!
Matt


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## ceg4048 (10 Jun 2010)

OK, had a look at that other thread. I guess that was Rhizo due to poor dosing technique and poor CO2, all exacerbated by poor flow.

It's bad enough when you don't have sufficient flow rating, but it's made even worse when your pumps work against each other. The output from the internal filter is doing absolutely nothing. It's energy is dissipated by the time the flow reaches the far end of the tank on the left. The Koralia's flow may reach the sediment but that's also a long way to travel. If you create movement to the left with the internal's flow then it's being canceled by flow to the right by the Koralia's flow. I always try to use the dimensions of the tank to augment flow. Use both filters to send flow across a short distance from back to front. You can even attach the output of the internal to a spraybar. The energy will probably still be anemic but at least it will be in the proper direction.

I personally think that all the internal filters are poor due to their limited pumps but I understand if one lacks sufficient resources to get a more powerful canister filter. Perhaps you can add another Koralia. Either way you need to play with the flow to get a better distribution.

As far as that dropchecker, have you tested the reagent? Put some reagent and water in a glass and put a few drops of lemon juice or vinegar in there just to make sure it turns green/yellow. Are you cleaning the dropchecker with an alkaline liquid? It just looks too blue to be real so both your reagent and sample water are under immediate suspicion.

For nutrients, either go to the tutorial section and read http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211 or go to JamesC's http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm to study nutrition. Lots of options.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (12 Jun 2010)

O.k, I was going to do it this way.





But from what I'm understanding from Ceg, I should be doing it this way?





I don't know how to go about or if it's possible to attach a spray bar to the internal filter.
If I was going to go down the road of switching to an external, what would be a good filter to use and how would I go about removing the internal.


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## ceg4048 (12 Jun 2010)

DEL,
     I prefer option 2. Think about billiards. If I shoot the cue ball down the long dimension of the table I have to put more energy into it to get to return to me. If I shoot to the short side I have better manoeuvrability of the cue ball because I can get it to bounce a couple of times. The water will tend to rebound as it hits the front glass and head downward. AS you keep pushing you'll set up a flow pattern which will have a better spread.

I think the internal is too weak but you could easily attach a spraybar. You just would need to transition to the bar by attaching some hose to the output. The orientation of the internal's spud would be as you show in your first post (i.e pointing along the long axis of the tank) add some tubing that fits both the spud and the spraybar and then mount the spraybar with the suckers on the back wall. The holes would be oriented towards the front horizontally.

I've seen some threads about how to remove the internal. I believe it's just glued on with some silicone on the back edges so you would need a razor to cut the silicone.

I can't see the edges of your hood but you will need to penetrate one of the edges to get an external's tubing into the tank. Hopefully, there is enough clearance from the glass to allow this, otherwise you'd have to penetrate from the top, which could get messy depending on where the lighting fixtures are. I assume a Rio 125 is 125 L? That means you ideally need a filter rated at or around 1250LPH to comply with the 10X rule right? Isn't the Tetratec 1200 rated at 1200LPH? I reckon even something rated at 1000LPH will get you in the ballpark because you have that Koralia. All this depends on the space you've got downstairs I guess.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (12 Jun 2010)

I've setup the tank as fig.1, simple because I don't have the right parts to make the internal powerhead face forwards. I've also put the diffuser plate much further down below the koralia to see how it does, the rattling hasn't started yet amazingly.

Think I am going to go down the road of using an external and rip out that internal now.  I'm going to go with your recommendation of the TetraTec and fit it with a spray bar.

If I'm going about the process of changing the filters, what's the best way to do it? Run the 2 alongside each other for awhile then simply remove the internal? What kind of time period am I looking at?

BTW here's some pictures of the top of the tank, as you can see I don't use the lighting fixture that came with the tank. 









I'm quite interested in trying the dry fertiliser dosing method, I read both articles, though the 2nd 1 was a bit easier for me to understand, from what I understand you can make "solutions" but can you add the chemicals directly to the tank? Or do they have to mixed with water 1st.
 Also is there a good time for dosing? When I leave for work the lights and the CO2 are off and don't come on for several hours, so I do it when I get home, but depending on trains, there may only be an hour or 2 of "on" time left.

I tested the regeant for my drop checker like you said, all I had was malt vinegar, but it managed to turn the regeant bright yellow/orange. I'm using water from the fish tank in the drop checker, is this correct?
The drop checker gets cleaned along with the diffuser in a bleach solution.

I am quite worried about my CO2, I know some people say you should use food grade, but mines just bog standard stuff I got from BOC, it was the only thing I could get locally.
 I have been playing with it a little today.





That's the best I managed, though my male gourami (my fish indicator) was breathing slightly faster, so I'm kind of at my wits end truth be told.

I am thinking of giving the whole thing a kind of overal plant/landscape wise, thinking of getting rid of the bogwood since it takes up too much room and I'm very tempted to get rid of the valis.

I'm hoping to place an order tomorrow, so I can hopefully get started next week when I have a few days off, so I'm going to do a bit of shopping for.
External filter
Piping for it
Spray bar
Drop checker reagent (just incase)
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Phosphate
Traces
Measuring spoons
I'm still unsure If I should bother getting any liquid CO2.


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## bigmatt (13 Jun 2010)

Sounds like the CO2 problem is solved!  You should NOT be using tank water in the drop checker.  Drop checkers should be filled with 4dkH  and bromo blue (Aqua essentials sell this) to get a "standard" response.  IF you do this i'm sure you'll see a better and more useful response from the DC that'll allow you to compare the response with others and around your tank - there is an article on here that'll help understand the DC and what it does. Remember the goal is to maximise plant growth and have happy livestock, not to turn the DC a specific colour.  To demonstarte this i changed my reg yesterday so i'm just turning it up every couple of hours until my fish migrate to the surface, then i'll turn it down a touch.  IN this way i know i'm getting the most CO2 into my tank for the plants without affecting my fish.  
As far as ferts go i dose my dry powders straight into the tank.  Don't worry about buying measuring spoons -the whole point of EI is that it is ESTIMATIVE, not exact!  In your particluar case i'd dose first thin in the morning then when your lights come on your plants have access to lots of lovely nutrients, but i'm sure ceg4048 will be able to tell you better.  
It'[s perfectly possible to run your internal alongside your external to maximise filtration and flow if you don't want the hassle of removing it, you'll just have 2 spraybars in the tank!
Hope this helps,
Matt


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## DEL 707 (13 Jun 2010)

Starting to understand some of my fundamental flaws now, re-read both of the dry fertiliser guides and Ceg's CO2 guide.

So today I've ordered
TetraTec EX1200 External Filter (from what I understand, it should come with a spray bar)
4 dKH Solution with Bromo Blue
Potassium Nitrate
Mono Potassium Phosphate
Trace Mix Plus
Dispensing Bottle 250ml
Storage Container
Thought about it and I'm going to try doing it with solutions, just seems a bit easier to me for measuring.

Bit of luck, the filter should arrive by tuesday when I have a day off so I can play around with it and head to my local shop if I need anything.

I'm now wondering if I've made any other glaring mistakes, like putting tap water in my drop checker.
Say with water changes, I use water from the cold tap, heat it up with a bit of water from the kettle, I used a sieve to stop any crap from the kettle going in the bucket. Then I add about 0.2ml of Seachem prime, mix it briefly then put it in the tank.


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## bigmatt (14 Jun 2010)

Water change sounds fine, as long as you're using the right quantity of dechlorinator!  I use Prime on warm water striaght formt he tap and don't have any probs.  
Cheers!
M


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## ceg4048 (14 Jun 2010)

DEL 707 said:
			
		

> ...Think I am going to go down the road of using an external and rip out that internal now.  I'm going to go with your recommendation of the TetraTec and fit it with a spray bar.
> 
> If I'm going about the process of changing the filters, what's the best way to do it? Run the 2 alongside each other for awhile then simply remove the internal? What kind of time period am I looking at?


OK, that's good that you're getting a proper filter. In this case I'd just run both for a month or so, that way you have that little bit of extra flow.

Thanks for showing the lighting fixture and that edge. Didn't realize you had this configuration.



			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I'm quite interested in trying the dry fertiliser dosing method, I read both articles, though the 2nd 1 was a bit easier for me to understand, from what I understand you can make "solutions" but can you add the chemicals directly to the tank? Or do they have to mixed with water 1st.


As Matt says you can just add the powders directly to the tank. At the end of the day it's really up to you. Do whatever is easiest. Making life simple is actually more important than anything else.


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> ..is there a good time for dosing? When I leave for work the lights and the CO2 are off and don't come on for several hours, so I do it when I get home, but depending on trains, there may only be an hour or 2 of "on" time left.


No, it doesn't matter one iota. Again this is a simplicity issue. Dose whenever it's most convenient.


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I'm using water from the fish tank in the drop checker, is this correct?
> The drop checker gets cleaned along with the diffuser in a bleach solution.


That explains the blue. Even when you rinse, a small amount of the bleach gets left behind and taints the sample driving it into the blue. This gives you a false low. If you didn't use bleach the tank water would give you a false high. The dropchecker is a pH test kit. Any cleaning product that affects pH will affect your readings. Any water sample that has other than neutral pH corrupts the reading. Get it?


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I am quite worried about my CO2, I know some people say you should use food grade, but mines just bog standard stuff I got from BOC, it was the only thing I could get locally.


Well some people are completely wrong. It's not necessary at all to use food grade or medical grade CO2, unless it's the most convenient gas product available at your location.


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I am thinking of giving the whole thing a kind of overal plant/landscape wise, thinking of getting rid of the bogwood since it takes up too much room and I'm very tempted to get rid of the valis.


There are loads of aquascaping options. Whatever you do, you should continue to scrape and scrub the glass to get rid of the algae on it. The algae that you can see produces more algae spores so you need to keep the population under control and do frequent water changes to curtail the population and to keep the tank clean.


			
				DEL 707 said:
			
		

> I'm still unsure If I should bother getting any liquid CO2.


It's always a good item to have in your armoury. Liquid carbon has algaecidal properties as well as providing a source of CO2. If you can afford it then it's good to have. It is toxic though so keep it away from kids.

Cheers,


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## chilled84 (14 Jun 2010)

> It is toxic though!!""



Well how close should i be to the stuff then! Crikey! toxic mates it sounds real yellow suit.


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## ceg4048 (14 Jun 2010)

It's no secret that this is toxic. Just like the ammonia or bleach under your kitchen sink. How close do you get to those?

Cheers,


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## chilled84 (14 Jun 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> It's no secret that this is toxic. Just like the ammonia or bleach under your kitchen sink. How close do you get to those?
> 
> Cheers,




Quite close CEG, I understand how you ment it to sound. Its just like every other chemical.


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## DEL 707 (15 Jun 2010)

The filter arrived today, had to DIY the spray bar a little since the pipping was too short so it was basically sitting out of the water.
Equiptment is looking a bit squashed in there, but hopefully should be better once I can remove the internal.





Removing the Valis was a bit mess, roots were everywhere, including in amond the Roseafolia, so when I pulled on the Valis the rosefolia came with it.

Speaking of the rosefolia, I'm not sure if I should dump it.





It's not looking too great at the moment, and it's covered in those white roots, I don't know the proper term.
Again I need help and suggestions on how to proceed from here.

Ideally I'd like to place an order only and get some more rosefolia, but I thought if I'm placing an order I might as well get more then 1 plant. But the tanks still a mess so I'm worried that I'm running before I can walk, hopefully I've got my flow problem sorted, but none of my chemicals have turned up yet (thank you Royal Mail), so no fertilisers or dropchecker regeant.

Can I get some suggestions on what my next steps should be?


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## ceg4048 (16 Jun 2010)

Hi DEL,
Those are called aerial roots and most people find them very unappealing so just use scissors or your fingers and cut/pull those off. Removing these roots will also have the added benefit of improving the flow in between and around the plants. Granted, right now that is just an incremental improvement but right now I'm much more interested in changing your mindset. The sum total of the things you do add up to success or failure. It's up to you whether you throw them away or not.

What I love about plants is their tenacity. They hang on grimly to life to the last molecule. They'll grow through rock, cement, salt marshes, always looking for the good times just around the corner. They amaze me. Look at this example:
It's a shoddy photo but look at the plants in the background. They were in worse shape than yours. They had been sitting in the post for 3 week and were basically mush: 




With good CO2+nutrients they rewarded me with this - Remember these are the very same ragged specimens that arrived in the post 7 months prior.
Two words symbolize this transformation. Hope, and Imagination.
That's how we make it to the future...




The plants front right still need to be topped and replanted more towards the back. You can also use your fingers to preen those stem plants in the same way a bird preens it's feathers in order to disrupt the algal film on the leaf surface. Remove any dead/decaying leaves as these just feed the algae.

Get more plants..any plants, cheap or otherwise now that you have a clean slate. Check the swap/trade section for good deals. And keep reading....keep learning...


Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (16 Jun 2010)

Thanks, I'll keep the rosefolia and see how she does.

The plant is the foreground, grows like a weed, much to it's credit, but unfortunately I can't plant it, everytime I do, the lower part of the plant dies and it simply floats to the top, so at the moment I've got it pinned under a rock which it doesn't seem to mind. I think I might get rid of it though, only reason it's there was my very amateurish attempt to hide the filter.

Speak of plants, I need a new plan and I want the experts opinions, since you've seen my attmpt at aquascaping.





For no.1, I was thinking of cuting and replanting the Hygrophila along the back of the tank and keeping the rosefolia in it's no.2 spot.
For no.3 I have no idea, in the past those bits of bogwood occupied that space.
For no.4, I would like a carpet, plant, I think they look fantastic, but my last attempt didn't go so well.





The glosso spread out at 1st, then it made a move upwards, then they got covered in algea and I have to remove it.

Unfortunately I lost my female gourami the other night, before I added the filter etc, not sure why, there were no markings, but the male had been hounding her and she lost most of her hiding places.
 I've started dosing melafix in the hope of helping that cory with the white markings.
 On the plus side, the cories seem to have a new lease of live with the extra flow.


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## ceg4048 (16 Jun 2010)

Well three are so many options. Just have a look around at other tanks in the Journal or Aquascaping Sections to get ideas. In that midground #3 area it's probably best to have medium sized and slower growing weeds. Perhaps a few crypts, blyxa, Micranthemum umbrosum, even narrow leaf fern, combined with a few rocks or thin pieces of wood. P. helferi or Staurogyne repens are the less fussy of the carpet plants, so you could try those up front in area #4.

Have a study of Tropica's Plant List A-Z to get an idea of sizes and so forth.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (16 Jun 2010)

Stroke of luck, all my chemicals have arrived.

Now for mixing the solutions, I'm using the Dosing Calculator, I need people to check my figures to make sure I'm right.

Potassium Nitrate
Tank Vol = 125l
Amount to add = 7 Teaspoons
Amount of water = 250ml
Amount to dose = 10ml

Posassium Phosphate
Tank Vol = 125l
Amount to add = 5 Teaspoons
Another of water = 250ml
Amount to dose = 11ml

Hope I'm reading this right and that the amounts are for every dose, not split through the week.

Here's 1 question, can these 2 be combined into 1 bottle, i.e 7 ts of nitrate and 5 ts of phosphate in 250ml of water? Then simply dose 11ml of the solution.

As for trace mix, I'm not quite sure how much to add since I don't have any scales. The website says to :-
Add 20g of Trace Mix Plus to 500ml of water. Then add 5ml per 100L, 3 times per week.

Also now that my 4 dKH solution with bromo blue has arrived, I'm ready to get my drop checker back in the tank, I took it out and kept my CO2 low when I reliased it was giving false readings.
 What's thet best way to clean my drop checker before I add the new regeant?

Thanks for the suggestions on the plants, I'm going to have a look around, shame work called me and said they need me up until sunday, otherwise I might have been able to get some in this week.


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## ceg4048 (16 Jun 2010)

Yes, you can combine the both Nitrate and phosphate powders in the same volume of water. The numbers look fine for 3 doses per week. Just dose 10 ml at a time. make the numbers easy.

As far as traces, just assume 6g per teaspoon and call it good. There is no need for accuracy at all.

Just rinse your dropchecker with distilled water if you have it. If not just use a bit of the 4dkh water. Worst case just use tap water and you'll be fine. In general, avoid acidic or alkaline cleaning products for obvious reasons.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (17 Jun 2010)

So say for the traces, 2tsp for 250ml water, then dose 6ml.

Sorry for the silly questions all the time, but I just want to make sure I get things right this time.


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## ceg4048 (17 Jun 2010)

Hi,
    No problems with the questions. It's better to ask.  

Didn't you say that you intended to follow the website instructions for the traces:

"Add 20g of Trace Mix Plus to 500ml of water. Then add 5ml per 100L, 3 times per week."

If that's the case then 20g/6 = 3 teaspoons to 500ml and then 6ml 3X per week.
If you use 259ml of water then the strength is double and then you only need to dose 3m 3X per week.

There is no single right way. If you study the EI tutorial in the Tutorial section you'll see a different recipe that achieves the same general goals.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (1 Jul 2010)

Sorry I havn't updated, work went from dead to nutty.

The sunday before last, I had another blitz, took all the plants, cleaned them and replanted. Also mixed up my solutions and have been dosing.
I've put the proper solution into my drop checker and I've managed to turn it green without freaking out my gourami.






The roseafolia has started to sprout it's new leaves, but the algeas starting to show it's face again  :? 





So I'm wondering if there's something else I'm doing wrong that I can correct.
My running times are
CO2 1pm-8pm
Lights 2pm-9pm.

Also I have a spare set of lights, used to be on the tank when I 1st set it up, but was told it was causing my algea problems so I removed it. So I could go up to 4x24W if that would help matters.

Plant wise I still havn't done anything because of work, but I have this saturday off so I'm hoping to place an order to arrive that day.
I really do like the look of P.helferi, so I'd like to give that a try.
Looking at the crypts, I fancy trying the Wendtii "brown" and "green"

Any advice on my algea problem or aquascaping, as always, is appreciated.


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## ceg4048 (1 Jul 2010)

Yeah, you really need to forget about lights. Lights cause algae, so if you have an algae problem the last thing you need is more lights. This is the single most important lesson you can learn and I can't stress this enough. Light is strictly an accelerator, so it accelerates bad things as well as good things.

If you want to add something more then add more CO2/Excel. That will be 10,000X more helpful than adding more lights.

It looks like the Althernathera has put out new leaves which mostly appear to be algae free. This is a good sign and indicates that you're on the right track, but Althernanthera grows at an agonizingly slow pace. I can't quite tell from the photos but there appears to be some type of hair/thread algae? That means you need more CO2/flow. Some of their stems appear to have some residual GSA which you can spot treat with DILUTED Excel when you do the water change. 

Continue the super-massive water changes as often as your schedule allows.

Adding more plants will be good. Crypts are good because they help oxygenate the sediment and they are fairly hardy. P. helferi is a good carpet plant but like all carpet plants, they do not appreciate CO2 incompetence.

I would definitely think about daily Excel dosages. 

There really are no magic tricks to speed things up. Just continue the basics: Regular nutrient dosing, good CO2, high flow (is a stronger filter out of the question?). Avoid the bad habits such as poor maintenance or overzealous lighting, and in a few more weeks things will start to come around.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (1 Jul 2010)

Well I've placed an order.
I got the plants I mentioned as well as some Easy-carbo, think that's what he called it, I asked for excel and that's what he gave me, so hopefully it's the same thing?


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## ceg4048 (1 Jul 2010)

Yep, for all intents and purposes Excel=EasyCarbo.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (4 Jul 2010)

Plants are now in, was more crypts then I expected and less P.helferi, so swings and roundabouts.





I've also started dosing Easycarbo, I do it in the morning along with my solutions. I'm only doing 2.5ml at a time because the tanks only lightly planted.
With treating the GSA on the stems, you mentioned diluted excel/easycarbo, what kind of mixture of water/easycarbo should I use?
I take it I should use a syringe to squirt it directly at the affected areas?


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## ceg4048 (5 Jul 2010)

Hi mate,
   That's looking so much nicer! I know that was a lot of hard work. You can use a spray bottle or syringe, or even a paint brush dipped in a solution of say, 5ml Excel to 1 gallon of water.  You can try stronger ratios, but this is safe. Apply it to the plant and let sit for a few minutes. If you're attacking hardscape like rock or wood (or even glass) then you can just use full strength and scrub with a toothbrush or similar.

Another method if you are not doing it in conjunction with a water change is to turn all filters/pumps off. Use full strength Excel in a syringe and squirt slowly over the submerged plant and let it drift/sink over the area. The water will do the dilution for you and turning off the pumps will keep the water still so as to maintain contact between the chemical and the target. After 5 minutes or so turn the filters/pumps on again.

Cheers,


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## ceg4048 (18 Jul 2010)

DEL,
      Looking at this "Light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel" shot some more, I was thinking it might be better to move your diffuser over to the left corner where your filter inlet pipe could take up some CO2 bubbles and send it back out through the spraybars, and then the rest would be captured by the Koralia and spat out towards the front and down. Try different placements and injection rates. You can also bump up the Easycarbo dosing if you are still having trouble with hair algae.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (10 Aug 2010)

Sorry it's been awhile since I posted.

I managed to cut out the internal filter, wasn't that bad in the end, I took some pictures a few days ago, so this is what the tank looks like at the moment, though I did have a quick trim on sunday.





I've got the diffuser on the left now under the Koralia, sorry that I've only just noticed the previous post. Is it o.k to put the diffuser under the inlet, it won't cause any problems at all?

I've been sticking to my cleaning and dosing routines, though I have bumped the easycarbo up to 5ml daily. But I'm still struggling with algea, though not as bad as it was in the past.









The algea on the gravel is quite annoying, my gravel vac doesn't really pick it up, though it is quite small, I do it by hand normally.

Fish wise, is it still too soon, is it wrong to look into fish and shrimp to help with the algea problem?


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## ceg4048 (11 Aug 2010)

Well, I mean, fish don't fix algae, they just eat it. So get more fish if you like fish, but don't depend on them to fix your problem. You can try doubling your dosing, especially the PO4. Is that Rhizo on the gravel shot? If so that means you need more of everything...

The P. helferi looks like it's in good shape, which means you are on the right track. Clean your spraybars with bleach.

Try the diffuser in different places and see what the results are after a few weeks. Under the inlet is fine, but if your filter objects it will start to gurgle as the gas builds up inside the head. Try it just to see if it's an improvement.

Keep it going mate, you have to be pleased with that so far.  

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (22 Aug 2010)

I've doubled my dosing the past week, trace, macro and easycarbo. Unfortunately I missed a day of dosing macro solution, was late for work and my solution had run out and I didn't have time to mix a new bottle   

Fish wise, I would like to start restocking.
After the CO2 accident, I'm down to 1 dwarf gourami and 4 cories.

Stock wise, I was thinking of adding :-
Another 2 cories
4-6 Cardinal Tetras
2-3 Otto's
1 Bristlenose catfish
And in time some ammano shrimp

I know I shouldn't depend on the tank inhabitants to solve my problems, but I wouldn't mind a team of caretakers.

Is this kind of stock list too much for my tanks?

The 1st thing I would like to add is the otto's and catfish, possible as early as tomorrow since I have the day off.
But I do have a question about otto's, is there a reliable way to tell them apart from chinese algea eaters?

1 last question, more aquascaping, the green crypts are starting to get dwarfed by the hygrophilla, shall I move them further forwards? What is the best method for repositioning, i.e should I trim the roots back?


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## ceg4048 (22 Aug 2010)

Hi DEL,
          Yeah that stock list sounds all well and good mate. I'll let someone else advise you on physical differences between species. You might have to do a search of the forum topics to find specifics unless someone has a clever tip or trick regarding identification.

Have a look at the Tutorial Pruning - A general guide to plant maintenance
You can move the plants wherever you see fit based on growth rates and aesthetics. Generally you do want to trim the roots if you are uprooting and moving. Make a habit of doing all this moving about at the large water changes so that you ensure that any ammonia and detritus you kick up gets removed and diluted.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (12 Sep 2010)

I was a bad boy last weekend, I was so busy building a new that I didn't prune or do a water change on the tank.

But aftera bit of maintenance today, this is what she's currently looking like.





(for some reason the forums cutting off a good part of this picture, here's a direct link)

I've had to aggressive with the hygrophila, but it has filled out brilliant. I am worried about the plants underneath it, though they seem o.k, I'm wondering if I should cut it back more to let more light down.
I have noticed a good drop in algea, there's still spots on the gravel, but they're tiny compared to what they used to be.

I'm not sure what to do about my Rosefolia





While the tops of the plant have nice red leaves, the leaves at the bottom suffer, changing to green and plagues by what seems to be greenspot algead.

Is there a way to spread out the P.helferi?


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## ceg4048 (12 Sep 2010)

Yes, that's looking much more like the way tanks should be. You need to prune the P. helferi at the nodes and re-plant the cut sections. That will fill in your foreground. 

The lower leaves that give you trouble are suffering from poor flow. Even though they get much less light, they also get much less CO2 and nutrients. A simple trim might solve this, or you may also need to increase dosing a little. A greater mass of plants also requires a greater mass of food.

So now that you know how to grow plants, you need to "Level up" as they say in the X-box gaming world. Now you need to think more about the scape. Perhaps re-introduce some hardscape like small bits of wood or stone (no sunken chests, please). The background plant is becoming unruly and needs to be trimmed as I'm sure you well know.

Cheers,


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## DEL 707 (14 Aug 2011)

Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but me and the fish tank are still going at it tooth and nail with algae problems.

Again the picture are being cut, I'll post direct link



http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26 ... 408111.jpg

I've moved the spray bar closer to the top of the tank to help with aeration which the fish seem to appreciate.
Unfortunately I lost the P. helferi, it became nothing but a bed of algae.

I've also changed my dosing, I'm using the chemicals and guide from here http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fert ... r-kit.html



> Standard Ei Dosing [This is a guideline only]
> 
> Macro Solution
> Mix, Shake & Leave to Dissolve Overnight:
> ...



I was originally dosing 25ml daily, but I've upped that to 35ml in the last week to see if that makes a difference, I'm also still dosing 5ml easycarbo daily.

My roseafolia is still looking a bit sad and top heavy.




http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26 ... 408113.jpg

I had a prune earlier and had to remove all the dead/dying leaves, which made them look a bit bare.

I still have some Taxiphyllum Barbieri (tough little bugger) in the tank which is attached to a very small rock 




http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26 ... 408112.jpg

I've bought a new rock for the tank, what would be the best way to attach some Taxiphyllum Barbieri to it, cut some off and attach it with fishing wire? At the moment I've just pinned the 2 rocks together and hope the plant gets the idea...


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## ceg4048 (16 Aug 2011)

Hi Del,
            You can use fishing line or netting to attach. It'll look awful for a while but will look nice once it fills in. I like the rescape. It looks like you've grown artistically and technically.

Add more CO2 and/or move the Althernanthera to the front to get it going again.

Cheers,

Cheers,


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## faizal (16 Aug 2011)

Hi Del,...that tank of yours is looking soooo much better now. Nice job on the aquascaping too.    Keep up the good work buddy!!!


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## DEL 707 (16 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the comments.

Still doing the hard yards, but hopefully I'll get there.


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## Gary Nelson (17 Aug 2011)

This has been a good read so far and I see a big transformation happening from the 1st few pics - just shows what expert advice makes... keep at it


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## L_Plates (18 Aug 2011)

Del your tank is looking so much better. This thread has been supplied with some great advice from ceg and taken in by you are its working a treat.

 

LP


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## DEL 707 (20 Aug 2011)

Forgot to mention that I've reduced my CO2 and lighting times by 1 hour for the last few weeks to see if that help, I've also replaced my T5 light today, since I think they were well over a year and a 1/2 old.

I've cut down my rosefolia and moved it to the front of the tank





http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26 ... 008111.jpg

Only thing I'm worried about is that this will only be a temporary solution and that i will be in an endless cycle of moving the plant around. Since I'm off work today, I'm going to try slowly increasing CO2, but I'm wondering If I'm just not meeting the requirments off the plant, I don't know how to get more flow to it, while it's at the back of the tank. Also after reading a few websites, I'm worried that I'm not meeting it's lighting requirements, some are saying 2-4 WPG, when I'm only achieving about 1.7WPG.
 I don't want to give up on this plant, but I'm starting to wonder if I should look for an easier subsitute.

He's some of the algae




http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff26 ... 008112.jpg

Admitidly things are getting better, but how many weeks do changes need to take affect, how long should I leave it before I try upping my dosing etc?

1 last question about fish.

I'm slowly starting to repopulate the tank, at the moment I have

8 x Cardinal Tetra
3 x Cories
2 x Ottos
1 x Bristlenose catfish

I want to add another 3 cories and from what I've read I need to add more otto's, was thinking of adding another 3. But I wanted to know if I still had room for some sort of "centre piece" fish, I used to have a dwarf gourami, but he was a bit of a bully around feeding time. I was looking at Kribs, but heard they can be territorial.


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## DEL 707 (20 Aug 2011)

Well I didn't need this, tried to take my diffuser out so I could clean it over night and I was pulling out the airline the glass snapped, that's the 2nd 1 this year...

I was gonna just order another Glass Jap Style Diffuser 1000, but since I'm making an order, was wondering if I should try something else.
Was also thinking of getting some glossostigma and trying that again?


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## Odogg (1 Oct 2017)

Fair play to you for your persistence  keep it up.


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