# 60x45x45 equipment choices



## Garuf (23 Nov 2009)

Taking advantage of our sponsors aquariums ltd's offer I just ordered a opti-white, rimless, braceless tank, 60x45x45 and I'm very, very excited!  

I had intended to use the same equipment that I had on my other 60cm (a 60x30x30). 
I've already got a ex1200 and a fluval fx5 but aren't sure which to use, the ex1200 I'd use a extra pump to increase flow in the same way I recommended to Sam (themuleous) something like the eheim compact but I'm not sure which if that'd be the best choice in pump I'd also run the co2 and heating on this closed loop that or a ex1200 if I can find one cheap enough...

Lighting wise I have a german over tank luminaire, 2 x24 watts but I'm concerned the light spread/intensity will be insufficient? Ideally I'd like to avoid buying more lights as I'll be getting substrates etc and it can all get very expensive very quickly.
I could stretch to new lights but I'd want to diy led something if that's the case, provided I could find a suitable body to retrofit. 
Halide I'm afraid just isn't an option, 150w is going to be far too expensive in terms off running costs I'm thinking.
Any thoughts? 
Recommendations?


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## AdAndrews (23 Nov 2009)

my belief would be that your luminaire is going to be insufficiant, i would try and get a hold of a 4 bulb arcadia luminaire,  and filtration i would go for the tetratecex1200 and also get the ex600 to run your ETH on and co2, either that or like you suggested an external pump, i am using a hydor seltz l30 for that same purpose, its fairly quiet, probably quite when in the cabinet...


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## AdAndrews (23 Nov 2009)

ive just noticed this on ebay, could help:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ARCADIA-CLASSICA- ... 2ea67a6fd1


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## George Farmer (23 Nov 2009)

I would say the EX1200 and 2 x 24w T5 will be sufficient.

I've used the same combo in a 125 litre with similar dimensions.

More light and you may need to consider more flow/circulation.  Depends on how much maintenance and algae-risk you want...


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## Garuf (23 Nov 2009)

Even with the lower lighting I do like to have a lot of flow, this said I really like the idea of the closed loop giving extra flow, especially since I can get away with using lily pipes. 

I'd be happy with 2x24 watts, in fact more than happy gives you slower growth and more error space. I'm just concerned I won't have enough for HC etc with the light spread.


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## Garuf (25 Nov 2009)

Does anyone have any links for any _cheap_ luminaires? Eqj seems to have stopped allowing bids on there's these days?

I'm looking for either 3-4 lights. 
Also, I'm looking for a pump with something in the region of 1000lph to boost flow, what do people recommend and who's cheapest now the living seas has folded?


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## Garuf (27 Nov 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Blau-4-x-24w-T5-L ... 500wt_1182

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T5-Aquarium-Fish- ... 3057wt_941

Which one would people say are worth the money? Any input at all?


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## zig (28 Nov 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Blau-4-x-24w-T5-Luminaire-Like-ATI-Marine-Aquarium_W0QQitemZ150391865080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Fish?hash=item23040dbef8#ht_500wt_1182
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T5-Aquarium-Fish- ... 3057wt_941
> 
> Which one would people say are worth the money? Any input at all?



I suppose they are not badly priced, I find EQJ trading stuff expensive for what you get tbh, dodgy ballasts and all. The legs on the smaller 60cm EQJ units are a joke as well.

Would the fans make a difference on the first luminaire you have linked I wonder, keeping things cool and all? there again its second hand and the ballasts could be old (and Chinese) I would probably go for the second one simply because its new even though the ballasts are probably Chinese as well albeit new ones this time.

Just my 2 cent


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## Nelson (28 Nov 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Blau-4-x-24w-T5-Luminaire-Like-ATI-Marine-Aquarium_W0QQitemZ150391865080QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Pet_Supplies_Fish?hash=item23040dbef8#ht_500wt_1182
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/T5-Aquarium-Fish- ... 3057wt_941
> 
> Which one would people say are worth the money? Any input at all?



i've got the second one,4x39w.had problems with the first one i got.two tubes wouldn't always come on.he sent a replacement switch,which didn't work.so he replaced the luminaire no problems.i also managed to break one of the legs so had to buy another one,though he now sells these in pairs.no problems since.
it is cheap and cheerful and chinese(hailea),and i've only had it since april so don't yet know how long the ballasts will last.


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## Garuf (29 Nov 2009)

Cheers guys, I'm most impressed by the second one I must admit, I don't really mind changing the luminaires ballasts i've done it one a non aquarium light and I can imagine it only being the same. 
I have been looking at LED and to diy one for the tank I'm looking at about Â£200 which is a shame but that's new technology for you. 

Plasa could be an option but that's more expensive still.

Regarding the pump I've found the aquamedic 1200 pump for between Â£30-40 Which I think is brilliant but I don't know about the quality or noise levels of the pump? It'll be running an external heater and a co2 reactor as well as pumping head, shouldn't tax it too much should it?


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## Garuf (17 Dec 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/70W-150W-DE-METAL ... 688wt_1167

Spotted this little beauty, seems like a bargain, wish I could find a similarly cheap 4x24 watt luminaire.


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## Garuf (1 Jan 2010)

Would a ex1200 and a ex700 be enough? I'm gunning for extra flow but I dunno, there's some good offers on 1500lph filters at the moment and it wouldn't be too much considering I'm going to build a LED luminaire rather than use a t5 lum. Any input at all anyone?


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## zig (2 Jan 2010)

I have a Ex1200 on a 60Wx45Dx36H cm it does the job for me.


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## Garuf (2 Jan 2010)

Cheers Peter,
I guess adding the ex700 can't really hurt then, I was planning a lot of ferns and stems so densely packed but if you're finding it fine I'll give it a whirl and I can upgrade if it's too little flow.


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## Garuf (6 Feb 2010)

Just a quick update, substrate, and filters a ex1200 and a e1500 ordered, waiting for ebay seller to get back to me on diffusers and lily pipes. 
LED's ordered but put on hold I'm pretty sure I've ordered the wrong ones. 

Just need the tank to arrive now! 

I'm pretty certain I'll be selling everything else I've had to date, tanks, ada substrate, diffusers, lights the lot a lot of it brand new so keep an eye out for a bargain.


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## Garuf (15 Feb 2010)

http://aquatic-art.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... -2009.html


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## NA-Fan (15 Feb 2010)

Hi Garuf

I am in the process of creating a similar set up and am interested in your filter choices.

Do you really need 2 filters?  Won't the equipment 'crowd' a short tank with 2 filters - or are you using two sets of glassware?  

Excuse my lack of knowledge - I'm more a lurker on here.  You clearly know your stuff.  Do you have any final 'scapes from previous tanks you can share please?

Thanks,
Laura


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## Garuf (15 Feb 2010)

Hello, Laura. 
Strictly speaking, no, two filters aren't really needed but because I'll be using very high levels of light more flow is needed to distribute nutrients/co2 and it helps to safe guard against possible dead spots. One filter with a 1200lph capacity would meet the 10x an hour base rate which would be sufficient if using lower levels of light because co2 demand will be much less. Flow could be increased by using additional pumps such as the koralias but I find them one of the ugliest thing you could put in a planted tank, up there with plastic divers or concrete castles. Another thing to consider is that glassware regarless of maker has the ability to destroy the flow rates a filter produces because the inlets are too small and too few, inline co2 diffusion like I'll be using and an inline heater add further stress which reduce flow. 
Really it's a trade of thing, more light means more flow and faster growth but more balance issues, lower light means lower flow, slower growth but more stability, something that will be a massive boon early in the start up stages or as a beginner. 

Regarding the glass wear I'm only going to be using one set initially choosing to use the JBL kit with a jet mouth which looks very good, this is something of an experiment as if it'd good I'll be replacing it with a custom made glass version from my unis science labs. You're right that it may make the tank look cluttered but I think for the choice of planting I'll be taking it shouldn't matter too much as it will be dense enough to hide the most part of them.

Unfortunately I was homeless over the summer and my last few scapes never reached maturity, firstly succumbing to damage during transit to leeds then once I had them reestablished and thriving falling victim to a family dispute which left me sans abode and having to tear them down and moth ball all the equipment till somewhere to live was found, not being particularly interested in photography because of my poor ability to take photos meant that photos are few and far between. My cube has been my best/favourite tank, my last 60cm my favourite scape but neither had a photo taken to show their final state. I'll search my threads and try and find some pictures.


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## andyh (15 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Regarding the glass wear I'm only going to be using one set initially choosing to use the JBL kit with a jet mouth which looks very good, this is something of an experiment as if it'd good I'll be replacing it with a custom made glass version from my unis science labs. You're right that it may make the tank look cluttered but I think for the choice of planting I'll be taking it shouldn't matter too much as it will be dense enough to hide the most part of them.




Hey Garuf

I have said JBL kit black jet style diffusor with pivot head type thing.

I wasnt that impressed to be honest, if you could reduce the dia of the whole thing that may help, or whack it on a massive filter. I found the ehiem wide mouth much better at creating flow. I did toy with sliding a piece of 12/16mm hose inside it to reduce the dia and increase the flow. Have you tried it yet?

Andy


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## Garuf (15 Feb 2010)

Not yet, no, I'm still waiting for the tank to arrive once I have it I'll play with an empty tank and experiment. The filter is pretty huge at 1500lph but I dunno, I like that they're black, it's just tidier than ehiem green but I'm more than open to experiement if I think the results are superior. I had concidered the Do aqua jet pipe but read lots of bad things with them breaking with no warming at all with having no sucker.


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## andyh (15 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Not yet, no, I'm still waiting for the tank to arrive once I have it I'll play with an empty tank and experiment. The filter is pretty huge at 1500lph but I dunno, I like that they're black, it's just tidier than ehiem green but I'm more than open to experiement if I think the results are superior. I had concidered the Do aqua jet pipe but read lots of bad things with them breaking with no warming at all with having no sucker.



The 1500lph should help! The black is nice that's what made me purchase it. I have kept it in the spares box and when i get chance i may see if i can make it work. I suspect that 1500lp should work better as i was trying only 700lph. Let me know how you get on!


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## Garuf (15 Feb 2010)

Shall do mate, like I say if I'm really impressed I'm going to get a glass clone. I really like its form already so we'll see. I'm really over doing the flow, hitting 20+ turnover as a way of getting really good distribution, something that will be more important as I plan on doing a pretty dense wood scape in their that will deflect and diffuse flow. 

I'll be using the equivilent of 150w + of Halide but using LED after the initial low light phase so flow is something that will be increasingly important as the light levels sneak up as co2 distribution will be paramount to success. Having the benefit of two massive filter capacities will be helpful too. My only real concern regarding flow will be getting it spaced right and the filters being set up "innert" as in not pre cycled which might be a real issue.


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## NA-Fan (16 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Hello, Laura.
> Strictly speaking, no, two filters aren't really needed but because I'll be using very high levels of light more flow is needed to distribute nutrients/co2 and it helps to safe guard against possible dead spots. One filter with a 1200lph capacity would meet the 10x an hour base rate which would be sufficient if using lower levels of light because co2 demand will be much less. Flow could be increased by using additional pumps such as the koralias but I find them one of the ugliest thing you could put in a planted tank, up there with plastic divers or concrete castles. Another thing to consider is that glassware regarless of maker has the ability to destroy the flow rates a filter produces because the inlets are too small and too few, inline co2 diffusion like I'll be using and an inline heater add further stress which reduce flow.
> Really it's a trade of thing, more light means more flow and faster growth but more balance issues, lower light means lower flow, slower growth but more stability, something that will be a massive boon early in the start up stages or as a beginner.
> 
> ...


Hi Garuf

Thanks for the full reply! It all makes sense.

Why are you using very high lighting out of interest?  Do you like a challenge?!    

Sorry to hear that you were homeless.  That couldn't have been fun...


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## Garuf (16 Feb 2010)

S'okay, being homeless in the summer and having friends make the ordeal easier. 

I'm using V. high light yes, pretty much for the challenge but also because it makes stems much much denser and it's easier to get crawling plants to spread across the substrate rather than upward into the water column. 
High light also creates plant forms that are difficult/impossible to achieve through the use of lower light levels,the super dense rotalla pillows that are so characteristic of ADA and CAU scapes can only really be achieved with high light.
Hairgrass will be a key part of my scape and it is a plant that again is much more compact under intense light. A lot of that comes down to trimming but I've known it to stay shorter as a result of higher light, ideally I'd like A. parvula but cost is a major factor so I'll use accicularis and just get tips from Saintly on keeping it nice and low. 
Ferns too I've found are easier to keep tidy with higher light but I don't know if this is simply because the plants are concentrating in extending the rhizome rather than producing baby plants which are often a sign of poor health. 
So yeah, it's a challenge thing but also it's a plant health, aesthetic thing. I don't mind treading a knife edge if it means I get just what I envision from my plants.


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