# AquaSoil Leeching



## johnny70 (22 Jul 2008)

I have a 90ltr ltr tank that I will be upgrading to a 180ltr ASAP, I have the tank(picked up today), going to do a complete overhaul, will be buying some new plants and use some I already have.

Currenty using Tetra PlantComplete in it topped with silica sand now, AS Amazonia is only a little more expensive but, how long is it going to leech ammonia for? or will this not be an issue with mature media and overfiltering I would LIKE AS as in the two tanks that I have put small amounts I have had good results and not real ammonia spikes but this tank would need fair bit of AS topped off with sand

this tank has to be broken down, new one in its place, water, plants etc and then finally fish, all within the day.

So is AS going to leech or not? and should I bother?

JOHNNY


----------



## milla (22 Jul 2008)

Yes, the AS will leech.  But as long as you are aware of this you can deal with it.
I was in the same position had to get fish back in tank as didn't have a holding tank.  I searched the web and found some advice from Tom on the barr report which i followed and am 8 weeks in and no problems, no losses.

The advice was.

Add zeolite to external filters (as much as you can get in), this will help deal with the ammonia.
Do 50% water changes every 2 days for a couple of weeks.  
Then drop to 2* 50% water changes per week for a few weeks.
I dropped to once a week water changes after week 6.

So far i have had no issues or major algae outbreaks.

It sounds like a lot of effort but it is worth it in the end.


----------



## ceg4048 (22 Jul 2008)

Hi Johnny,
                AS will always leech. That's just life in the big city.   But so what? Do multiple water changes for the next 6 weeks or so and you'll be fine. What I don't get is why would you want to top the AS with sand? After a while the sand will simply fall through the AS won't it? The amount of leeching is not much in terms of fish toxicity but only in terms of algae.

Cheers,


----------



## johnny70 (23 Jul 2008)

So, am I correct in thinking that AS is only an issue for algae and not fish then? I wouldn't have the time to do 50% water changes except on my days off   my first concern is the fish really as much as I don't want algae, fish health has to be my first priority and if I can't have AS because of this I'll go down the old tried and tested route  

Cheers,
JOHNNY


----------



## Dan Crawford (23 Jul 2008)

It does have an affect on fish as does any exposure to amonia, what Clive is saying is that it's considered minimal in comparison to the effect that it has on algae ie. algae loves amonia and will thrive on it. But if you can deal with the WCs then it would be well worth it!  
Like Clive said, i'd leave the sand. There is no need to "cap" AS and the sand would end up sinking and above all, look poor once it's kind of mixed together


----------



## johnny70 (23 Jul 2008)

Ok, cheers for the replies, my 15 hour days kind of put me out of the running to do big water changes everyday   so I think I'll bin the idea of AS and go for Tropica or Tetra plant stuff instead.  

Cheers,
JOHNNY


----------



## Matt Holbrook-Bull (23 Jul 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi Johnny,
> What I don't get is why would you want to top the AS with sand? After a while the sand will simply fall through the AS won't it?
> 
> Cheers,



not to mention the fact that the sand will prevent water flowing into the AS as well, which is one of its main benefits!  surely this is a bad idea?


----------



## sanj (24 Jul 2008)

doesnt activated carbon adsorb ammonia?


----------



## TDI-line (24 Jul 2008)

sanj said:
			
		

> doesnt activated carbon adsorb ammonia?



Probably, but will also absorb any ferts etc.


----------



## spaldingaquatics (24 Jul 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> sanj said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's why I stopped using it


----------



## johnny70 (24 Jul 2008)

hey ho, I've binned the idea anyway, looks like I'm using it all wrong anyway  

Time for a teardown  

JOHNNY


----------



## Ed Seeley (26 Jul 2008)

sanj said:
			
		

> doesnt activated carbon adsorb ammonia?



Carbon won't remove ammonia, but old carbon will get colonised by nitrifying bacteria and become biological media too.  If you want to remove ammonia chemically then Purigen or Zeolite will do it.


----------



## jay (26 Jul 2008)

Will purigen or Zeolite affect the biological filtration?
Seeing as it takes ammonia away from the bacteria?


----------



## Ed Seeley (27 Jul 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> Will purigen or Zeolite affect the biological filtration?
> Seeing as it takes ammonia away from the bacteria?



They will affect biological filtration in that both will remove ammonia that otherwise bacteria would use as food.  However, with a mature filter, Purigen especially doesn't seem to have any major deleterious effects.  In a mature filter the bacteria will simply suspend their activity and wait for the food source to return.  I also imagine the bacteria will still get some ammonia, just not as much.  In a new filter I would think they would definitely slow maturation of the filter.  I've only ever used them short term and used zeolite in fry tanks where I didn't have room for a filter.

In the situation we were discussing with AS though we have spikes of ammonia and the chemical media will help remove the excess on a short term basis and when those extreme amounts of ammonia aren't being released then the media won't be needed any more to control ammonia.


----------



## jay (27 Jul 2008)

Oh ok. Just that I'm having this exact same quandary, but I'm going through with it.
Think I may do the 'Tom Barr Dry start' but I'm thinking I may use Purigen when I first fill the tank just in case any ammonia is still present.


----------



## sanj (29 Jul 2008)

I have added fuval ammonia remover \9im pretty sure its zeolite), the filter is new seeded with bacteria, but the amount of ammonia being leached by AS i dont think it would have major negative effect on the bacteria.


----------



## Dave Spencer (29 Jul 2008)

I always use Zeolite on new tanks as a means of controlling ammonia levels, and hence algae. I use Purigen for crystal clear water....but I must admit that I wasn`t aware that it removed ammonia.

Dave.


----------



## GordonTGopher (6 Aug 2008)

Would the leeching ammonia be enough to cycle the tank?

I'm setting up a planted tank; 40l Aquacube, Aquasoil and an Eden 501. If I "seed" the filter from another tank would the leeching ammonia be enough to cycle the tank? How long does the Ammonia leech for (typicallly)?

Comments and suggestions welcome   

Gordon


----------



## aaronnorth (6 Aug 2008)

give it a month before levels drop to a decent level. It can be used to cycle the tank


----------



## Ed Seeley (6 Aug 2008)

With some mature media and a good filter you may find the tank cycles in as little as 10 days, or even less.  However try to leave the fish for as long as you can.  The AS will continue to leach small amounts of ammonia for a while, but once the plants are established they will take it all up rapidly.  By having no fish you can run the CO2 at much higher levels really boosting their growth and also you aren't then having the fish adding ammonia either.  4-6 weeks is a good time, IMO, to think about adding algae eating fish, shrimp and snails.  I'd only add them sooner if you see any algae before that.


----------



## GordonTGopher (7 Aug 2008)

Thanks for the input folks. Will try and kick things off tonight. I'm sure you'll see more questions from me in due course!

best regards,

Gordon


----------



## Dusko (22 Aug 2008)

> Think I may do the 'Tom Barr Dry start' but I'm thinking I may use Purigen when I first fill the tank just in case any ammonia is still present.



Dry Start Method is the best known method so far for starting a tank with nutrient rich substrates like ADA AS or potting soils, etc... Soils need to settle down before totally flooding the tank.
Saturate the soil with dechlorinated water and keep it saturated at all times for minimum 8 weeks. Like this we avoid any algae blooms and make sure all the NH4 stays in the soils or gets transformed into NO3.
Once the tank is flooded (after min 8 weeks) flush out the water a few times to remove any possible NH4 which have escaped the substrate. Plant heavily and start dosing, keeping good CO2 (if injected), flow, even less light for the first few weeks (less wattage or less hours per day) can help.

Also not to forget; when saturating the soils, if possible, use some of the mulm for your established tanks to speed up the bacteria development.

I am preparing two new tanks and am already cycling the soils for 3 month now, will leave it for one more week or two. Will report what happens.

Good luck!

Regards, Dusko


----------

