# BBA and Tough Green Algae on Java Fern



## Kristoph91 (21 Jul 2012)

Hi guys

I'm having a problem with my java fern, lately it has been having a lot of BBA growth on its older leaves. 
I have DIY CO2 and I'm using ferts, lighting is 24W over a 30L tank (One of the bulbs is actinic)







Can anyone help me out ?

Regards


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## Iain Sutherland (21 Jul 2012)

Hi Kris, looking at your picture mate id say it looks like staghorn algae and green spot algae, staghorn is co2 related but can often be vanquished with good filter clean and a few decent doses of liquid carbon ideally squirted straight at it with the filters off for 5 minutes.  GSA is also caused by fluctuating co2 and low po4.  Dosing more po4 will help and as always lowing the light intensity is a good place to start.
 If using pressurized is not an option then perfecting the diy recipe and changing it more often will help, however for an easier life personally id take it off altogether and go with liquid carbon... if you need carbon at all?  Low tech has many merits


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## Kristoph91 (21 Jul 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Hi Kris, looking at your picture mate id say it looks like staghorn algae and green spot algae, staghorn is co2 related but can often be vanquished with good filter clean and a few decent doses of liquid carbon ideally squirted straight at it with the filters off for 5 minutes.  GSA is also caused by fluctuating co2 and low po4.  Dosing more po4 will help and as always lowing the light intensity is a good place to start.
> If using pressurized is not an option then perfecting the diy recipe and changing it more often will help, however for an easier life personally id take it off altogether and go with liquid carbon... if you need carbon at all?  Low tech has many merits



Thanks for the informative reply mate 
The filter is very clean lately, and I've been doing daily 10% WC. 
PO4, hmmm all it says on the VIMI ferts bottle for P is "P - 1"... Confusing   

Have no liquid carbon but will try and order some soon 

Might turn the lights from 24W to 18W. On a 30L tank will this have an effect on the plants growth? 

On the topic of Low tech being better...
I've been wanting to have a "Java Fern & Moss Jungle" for ages. I'll probably never get round to finding a big enough piece of Java fern.  I want 3 or 4 big plants to fill a tank with green. Then some floating plants on top  
Mmm.   

Thanks for the advice mate !


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## darren636 (21 Jul 2012)

less light will help.


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## san-ho-zay (21 Jul 2012)

+1 for less light, more CO2 and more ferts.

Java Fern can be a bit of a dirt ball as well so it's worth giving it a poke and a prod before a large water change, including vacuuming and perhaps trimming the roots if they get too long. Same goes for moss if you have it. With vacuuming I guess you might be worried about baby shrimp though.


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## Kristoph91 (21 Jul 2012)

san-ho-zay said:
			
		

> Java Fern can be a bit of a dirt ball as well so it's worth giving it a poke and a prod before a large water change, including vacuuming and perhaps trimming the roots if they get too long. Same goes for moss if you have it. With vacuuming I guess you might be worried about baby shrimp though.



San-ho-zay this is interesting I never thought that the dirt would bother it! Didn't even think of any plants collecting dirt but now you mention it, it seems logical that it would!

Okay then guys, I'll lower the light to 18W. 
But will this be enough for the rest of the plants ? My Pogostemon Helferi and Hydro Sp. Japan is getting a bit "leggy" and I assumed this was through lack of light. 

I'm confused now. 

Maybe I should take out the 'Fern and replace it with a Crypt that prefers higher light ?

 

Thanks for the feedback !


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## Ady34 (22 Jul 2012)

KrisHumphreys1991 said:
			
		

> Okay then guys, I'll lower the light to 18W.
> But will this be enough for the rest of the plants ? My Pogostemon Helferi and Hydro Sp. Japan is getting a bit "leggy" and I assumed this was through lack of light.


Hi Kris,
leggy plants look this way not due to insufficient light, but insufficient c02, they are in fact reaching to break the surface where there is an abundance of c02.
18W over 30l will be ample.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## jazjac (23 Jul 2012)

If you are going to treat with liquid carbon which I seem to be using more than I would prefer to be, I would suggest removing the affected fern and use 10ml of carbon with 100ml of water put in a spray bottle and spray all the plants affected then place back in your tank. I have directly dosed in tank using a syringe with carbon and when you calculate a correct dose for your tank you are very limited to how much foliage you can actually treat that way. Also using the spray although having the trouble to remove the plants from the tank you do keep from harming less tolerant plantswhen direct dosing into the tank. Plants like crypts and val tend to hold out a white flag and melt somewhat. Hope my experince in these similar problems is of some use to you. Goodluck.


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## Kristoph91 (23 Jul 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> KrisHumphreys1991 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very helpful Ady thank you. My CO2 is just really kicking in this week, hopefully they will sort themselves out. 
18W it is.



			
				jazjac said:
			
		

> If you are going to treat with liquid carbon which I seem to be using more than I would prefer to be, I would suggest removing the affected fern and use 10ml of carbon with 100ml of water put in a spray bottle and spray all the plants affected then place back in your tank. I have directly dosed in tank using a syringe with carbon and when you calculate a correct dose for your tank you are very limited to how much foliage you can actually treat that way. Also using the spray although having the trouble to remove the plants from the tank you do keep from harming less tolerant plantswhen direct dosing into the tank. Plants like crypts and val tend to hold out a white flag and melt somewhat. Hope my experince in these similar problems is of some use to you. Goodluck.



Thanks Jazjac! I havent got the funds right now, but I will get some in the future. As of this morning, the fern was removed - and placed in my low light tank. Full of floating plants (for the gourami's) so it should kill the algae and I'm sure the 'Fern will thank me for the lower lighting. 
Your knowledge IS very helpful


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## dw1305 (23 Jul 2012)

Hi all,
Java Fern is absolutely fine with no CO2, very low ferts and high or low light. I've got plants in tanks with 5000 lux 400W high pressure SON-T sodium grow-lamps over them and in tanks with just 11W of T5, and they all do fine. They all have fertiliser added according to the "duck-weed index", so will be very low nutrient compared to EI etc.

If you get Stags-horn on the old leaf tips it is usually to do with a build up of organic matter, by the time you notice the Stags-horn, the source (often a dirty filter as suggested) may be long gone. For BBA I use Red Ramshorns, they are very effective on new BBA "plants", but not established tufts. If you add snails and wait the tufts will detach, and you will then be BBA free.

Low tech the best thing to do with Java-Fern is ignore it until it is well established, just run it under the tap to remove dead leaves and clean it every few months. Growth will be very slow at first, but once it reaches the "critical mass" stage it will grow reasonably quickly.

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (24 Jul 2012)

Hi all,
As a picture tells a thousand stories, I picked one of the ferns out of the tank in the kitchen for a photo this morning, the fern itself is near the water surface (a bit like a giant mushroom) and brightly illuminated, but still submersed and the tank is low tech, low ferts with 2 x 24W T5 on a 12 hour day. 

Sorry about the quality, but photography isn't my strong point. I put a 50p piece in for scale, it is too out of focus for much detail, but it didn't have any visible algae from a quick visual once-over.





I think I probably planted it about 4 years ago, usually I plant  a rhizome section and 4 or 5 leaves. I give it a wash and a thin about every 6 months now, and I just let the big plantlets fall off.

You can see the wooden "mushroom stalk" on the left of this photo from a few years ago.




cheers Darrel


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