# Low tech and plants



## chris521957 (26 Nov 2011)

Hi all. I am in the process of setting up a 180ltr cory tank. I want a very lowtech setup, but am at a loss as to which plants to use and which way to use ferts. I was thinking about some amazon swords and straight/spiral vallis for the background, possibly some smaller broadleaved plants for the midground and mosses for the carpet in the foreground. I have 2x30w lights. I am also thinking of using cat litter as a subtrate with fine gravel or coarse sand as a capping.
Can anyone recommend good plants for this setup. There will be quite a bit of sumatran driftwood in with mosses on. I am also wanting to use a fert that i can use daily/weekly that comes in a bottle. I dont have the time to make my own ferts and mess about with various bits of this and that due to work commitments. There will aslo be 1 Indian whisker shrimp in with the fish, so the ferts will have to be shrimp friendly. At the moment i am using Nutrafin Plant gro. Would this be ok to use in a slightly better planted tank?. Thanks for any help. Chris.


----------



## spyder (26 Nov 2011)

chris521957 said:
			
		

> possibly some smaller broadleaved plants for the midground and mosses for the carpet in the foreground.



Plant choices seem good. As for these broad leaf plants the there are many varieties of Cryptocorynes that are well suited. You could also use Java fern's & Anubias on wood or rocks as they thrive in low light too. I'm pretty sure Hygrophila's would work well in low tech so there's a bit more variety there. In general avoid the higher demanding plants that require higher light and co2 and you should be fine.

I know nothing about the shrimp you have but many dose full EI with cherry shrimp and even high grade CRS which are more sensitive.


----------



## chris521957 (27 Nov 2011)

Thanks for that spyder. i may get rid of the shrimp.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (27 Nov 2011)

Most crypt species, there's dozens to choose from!

Hygrophilia Polysperma would be fine. All the different amazon sword varieties, E tennellus, Dwarf Sag, anubias, java ferns.

Not sure what's in the Nutrafin plant gro but for a low tech set up off the shelf mixes are usually fine. I do mix my own as it's a cheaper, I just have a macro bottle and a micro bottle, just add each about twice a week. You don't have to faff about with daily dosing etc if you don't want to.


----------



## Polly (27 Nov 2011)

> I am also thinking of using cat litter as a subtrate with fine gravel or coarse sand as a capping.



If you are using cat litter, there's no need to cap it, it will work well on it's own 

Also, any gravel/sand,  being heavier, will sooner or later end up underneath the cat litter   

The same happens with other substrates, it's really difficult to stop them mixing together IME


----------



## chris521957 (28 Nov 2011)

Thanks Morgan. What are "macro and micro bottles"?. I am now thinking, after reading some other threads, about just using the cat litter. It will also save me a lot of money. Thanks to all who replied.


----------



## spyder (28 Nov 2011)

Ferts.

Check the EI article in the articles section.


----------



## chris521957 (30 Nov 2011)

As stated in my original post, i dont really have the time to start mixing all these different chemicals and working out how much of each i will need. Are there any ready prepared liquid ferts on the market that will do the job for me, i know they may work out more expensive in the long run, but i am ok with that. Failing this, i will just have to have a few late nights trying to get my head round the mixing of the different chemicals i need. Thanks.


----------



## milla (30 Nov 2011)

chris521957 said:
			
		

> As stated in my original post, i dont really have the time to start mixing all these different chemicals and working out how much of each i will need. .




Why mix just dump salts straight into tank nothing easier 

The article indiacates how much for a 20gallon tank your tank is approx 40 gallon so double it.

For40 gal  start with 

Sunday – 50% or more Water Change then dose [1/2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [1 teaspoon MgSO4]
Monday – 1/8 teaspoon CSM+B (trace)
Tuesday - [1/2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [1 teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 1/8 teaspoon CSM+B (trace)
Thursday - [1/2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [1 teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday – Rest
Saturday - Rest


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Nov 2011)

chris521957 said:
			
		

> As stated in my original post, i dont really have the time to start mixing all these different chemicals and working out how much of each i will need. Are there any ready prepared liquid ferts on the market that will do the job for me, i know they may work out more expensive in the long run, but i am ok with that. Failing this, i will just have to have a few late nights trying to get my head round the mixing of the different chemicals i need. Thanks.



This is what I do.

2 tbsps of trace mix into a bottle, add water.

2 tbsps of each NPK into a bottle, add water.

Dose whenever, it's low light, no need to be strict or overly precise. I haven't followed any guidelines or sat and worked out anything out, just threw some random amounts into the bottles. If my plants show signs of lacking anything I'll add more, they haven't.

I've used about 50p worth of dry ferts in 4 months, if that.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Nov 2011)

Otherwise I think TPN Plus is quite good.


----------



## chris521957 (30 Nov 2011)

Ok,looks like i am going to have to put some time aside and try this method. Thanks for the info and measurements (saved me a headache trying to work it all out). I do have a small Aquagrow Co2 injection system, but have never used it. Would this be a better route to go down for the time i have to spare?


----------



## Tim Harrison (2 Dec 2011)

Hi Why not go the whole hog and use soil substrate. Then there will be no need to use fertiliser at all.

I use a formula, which is a blend of 20% sterilized loam, 10% grit and 70% sphagnum moss peat. The aim is to provide a nutrient level just high enough to aid good plant growth but low enough to prevent excessive release of nitrogenous compounds such as ammonium. In simple terms the loam peat mix holds nutrients that plants can utilize, and the grit just adds extra structure so the substrate is more conducive to root development, water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange.

But equally you could use aquatic compost, the type readily available at garden centers for use in ponds; this is often composed of similar ratios of loam, grit, and peat to the formula above. Diana Walstad, recommends John Innes number 3, or Miracle Gro’s Organic Choice Potting Mix, again very similar but perhaps richer in nutrients. I have also had great success in the past just using sphagnum moss peat on its own. However, a word of caution, it is not an exact science especially since local water chemistry can also play a role too; for instance peat can sometimes drastically reduce aquarium pH in soft water areas which in turn can lead to metal toxicity. However, I have always lived in hard water areas where using peat substrate has actually proven beneficial to aquarium water chemistry. 

I should perhaps mention here that I cap the soil substrate with several centimeters of 3mm pool filter sand. One other word of caution, avoid composts that have added fertilizers since they can prove toxic to fish and invertebrates. Also, avoid composts containing additives like perlite since it has an annoying tendency to rise to the surface every time the substrate is disturbed. 

As for plants try some of those in the list below. I would recommend that you try as many as possible and let them fight it out that way you will soon learn which ones thrive in your unique aquarium conditions and which one to avoid in future.

It is important to note that the list below is only meant for guidance and is by no means definitive. It only includes the species that have thrived in my lower energy tanks and that are generally considered relatively easy to grow anyway. But it should not prevent you from experimenting with more demanding species such as Aponogeton madagascariensis; you never know you might surprise yourself. 

For further information check out Peter Hiscock’s book the “Encyclopaedia of Aquarium Plants”. Despite being a little dated it is still a great reference book, and I suppose about as close to a definitive work as you are likely to find. And despite being out of print it is still very much available from internet retailers.



Anubias spp.
Aponogeton crispus
Bacopa monnieri
Cabomba caroliniana
Ceratophyllum demersum
Ceratophyllum cornuta
Cryptocoryne becketti
Cryptocoryne wendtii
Echinodorus spp.
Inc. Echinodorus tenellus
Egeria densa
Eleocharis acicularis
Hydrocotyle verticillata
Hygrophilia spp.
Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
Limnophila aquatica
Ludwiga repens
Microsorium pteropus
Nymphaea spp.
Pistia stratiotes
Pogostemon helferi
Riccia fluitans
Sagittaria platyphlla
Salvinia auriculata
Vallisneria spp.
Vesicularia dubyana


----------



## chris521957 (2 Dec 2011)

Well, Troi, thats got me thinking again about something that never crossed my mind. Just a couple of questions. Do the 2 that you mentioned come in ready to use packs or do you have to mix yourself with other components. Do you have to make any alterations to your cleaning schedule, ie:- 40% water change every week and general cleaning up. How long does this compost last before it needs renewing, and would i be ok to add some Nutrafin Plant gro to the set up if i went down this route. Is this compost ok for my fish and shrimp. I have looked at quite a few of the plants on your list, and i am thinking of giving most of them a try .My tank is not being changed till the new year, so i will have plenty to think about between now and then. This idea does appeal to my lazy nature though. Glad i joined this forum now, lots of ideas and very thought provoking. Thanks for that.


----------



## Tim Harrison (2 Dec 2011)

> Well, Troi, thats got me thinking again about something that never crossed my mind. Just a couple of questions. Do the 2 that you mentioned come in ready to use packs or do you have to mix yourself with other components. Do you have to make any alterations to your cleaning schedule, ie:- 40% water change every week and general cleaning up. How long does this compost last before it needs renewing, and would i be ok to add some Nutrafin Plant gro to the set up if i went down this route. Is this compost ok for my fish and shrimp. I have looked at quite a few of the plants on your list, and i am thinking of giving most of them a try .My tank is not being changed till the new year, so i will have plenty to think about between now and then. This idea does appeal to my lazy nature though. Glad i joined this forum now, lots of ideas and very thought provoking. Thanks for that.



Hi I am glad you're open to the possibilities of soil substrate, they can produce very rewarding results for comparatively very little energy and outlay. In answer to your questions.

The soils I mentioned other than the formula I mix myself all come in handy packets form the garden centre.

My cleaning schedule is pretty minimal I barely have to even clean the glass. I change about 15% of the water every 1 to 2 weeks, I'm sure I could leave it much longer. I should mention though that my tank is very densely planted and this has numerous benefits, but basically the plants do all the hard work. You can check it out here in the forum http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 7&start=50

The soils I have recommended naturally have a high (CEC) cation exchange capacity as they contain particles that readily attract and bind nutrients to them. Plants are then free to uptake the nutrients through their roots. So providing your cap of sand is of a thickness and grade that allows for water movement and nutrient transference your soil substrate should retain enough nutrients to keep your plants happy almost indefinitely. In other words, the rate of plant growth, though vigorous, will not be sufficient to outstrip soil nutrient replenishment. 

In my tanks fish food is the fertilizer since it contains all the essential elements required for healthy plant growth. But it’s not what you think. I am not suggesting for one moment that you leave fish food to rot in your tank; allow me to explain. I feed my fish very well, and what they don’t absorb they excrete in the form of small inorganic compounds, or in other words the nutrients that plants can use. Shrimp and snails also help by breaking down organic matter in to smaller particles and bacteria do the rest, unlocking even more nutrients. So there is no need to add fertiliser at all, and it may upset the balance and give rise to algae if you do.

Diana Walstad (Google her if you not sure who she is) uses Miracle Gro’s Organic Choice Potting Mix in her shrimp tank experiments so it is absolutely safe for shrimp. follow the link for more info http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf


----------



## chris521957 (2 Dec 2011)

Thats decided me now. I am going to try this way of getting a nicely planted tank, rather than a nice tank for 2 weeks then lots of melting plants. Thanks for all your help and to anyone else who has contributed to this thread. I have learned some invaluable things here. I will keep posted how the tank is coming along in the next few weeks. Once again thanks to all. Chris.


----------



## Tim Harrison (3 Dec 2011)

No worries, keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Dec 2011)

Troi said:
			
		

> Hi Why not go the whole hog and use soil substrate. Then there will be no need to use fertiliser at all.
> 
> I use a formula, which is a blend of 20% sterilized loam, 10% grit and 70% sphagnum moss peat. The aim is to provide a nutrient level just high enough to aid good plant growth but low enough to prevent excessive release of nitrogenous compounds such as ammonium. In simple terms the loam peat mix holds nutrients that plants can utilize, and the grit just adds extra structure so the substrate is more conducive to root development, water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange.
> 
> ...



Where do you / can I get 3mm pool filter sand ? Does that mean the grain size is 3mm ?  I called World of Water (our local aquatic/pond "specialist" and they barely even knew what I was talking about , let alone stock it.  And that was the manageress who answered !


----------



## Antipofish (22 Dec 2011)

chris521957 said:
			
		

> Thats decided me now. I am going to try this way of getting a nicely planted tank, rather than a nice tank for 2 weeks then lots of melting plants. Thanks for all your help and to anyone else who has contributed to this thread. I have learned some invaluable things here. I will keep posted how the tank is coming along in the next few weeks. Once again thanks to all. Chris.



Any progress / pics on the tank and what route you have chosen Chris ?


----------



## Tim Harrison (22 Dec 2011)

> Where do you / can I get 3mm pool filter sand ? Does that mean the grain size is 3mm ? I called World of Water (our local aquatic/pond "specialist" and they barely even knew what I was talking about , let alone stock it. And that was the manageress who answered !



Its available from pool maintenance or pool construction companies, also on eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HIGH-QUALITY- ... 592wt_1185

Order the grain size 1mm - 2mm, I did; the actual average grain size is around 3mm.

Troi


----------



## foxfish (22 Dec 2011)

You should be able to get a similar product from any garden centre, lime free coarse sand, grit or lime free gravel is sold for pot plant use. Cactus, orchid & Bonsai sections normally have silica & lime free products too.


----------



## chris521957 (24 Dec 2011)

I will be starting the tank rescape in the new year. I will post pics as it progresses( with the new camera i am getting for xmas). I will be using John Innes no 3 as my substrate with a capping of approx 3cm of unipac limpopo black( which i already have). I am still researching the plants, but think i will go with, Riccia(now floating in the tank and growing very well), Java moss, Jave fern,sagittaria subbulata, Anubius barteri, Hygrophilia polysperma, Microanthemum umbrosum, vallis and Crypt wendtii. If any of these plants fail, then i will try something else, but i am determined to have a nice planted tank in the near future. The fish will include approx 30 corries, Venuzuelans, Jullii, Sterbaii and Peppered. 5 B/N plecs( which may go depending on how the plants cope with them. Approx 20 neons and 6 Torpedo barbs, + 1 indian whisker shrimp. This is going to be a learn as it happens experience, so i am aware that not everything will work together, so i am prepared to make changes as neccessary. I will keep you all informed as to how i am progressing. Chris.


----------



## Tim Harrison (24 Dec 2011)

Chris...sounds like an exciting project. Please do keep us up to date, looking forward to some photos.


----------



## willsy (30 Apr 2012)

Troi said:
			
		

> Chris...sounds like an exciting project. Please do keep us up to date, looking forward to some photos.



Hi Troi,

I know you posted this some time ago, but I have a quick question. 

I have some Peat Moss from J Arthur Bowers which is 100% peat apparently and I also have some grit from the garden centre. Not sure if it's lime free - I'll have to check when I get home.

Just wondering where you can get sterlised lome from? I've searched everwhere and cannot find it. Is it some sort of 'top soil' ?

Just in the process of setting up a low tech, low water change, soil based aquarium!   

Thanks very much

Will.


----------



## Tim Harrison (30 Apr 2012)

Hi Will, if you Google sterilized loam you get any number of propriety brands available from garden centers etc.  However, I have taken to mixing 50% peat moss with 50% aquatic soil - Westland do a version that is OK as do B&Q -  and other garden centers do their own brands as well, most seem to be fairly generic, that is very similar in composition, so take your pick.

It works for me, in that you get a substrate with a good nutrient balance and a high organic matter content which gradually gives off CO2 as it decomposes, all to the benefit of plant growth.


----------

