# ADA 60fs Last Chance



## Deano3 (29 Aug 2013)

well today set about destroying my old scape as didn't go well and starting new one
tanks ADA 60f
Filter eheim professional thermo 2324
Lights 24w hagen life glo bulb

plants list
Hc
lilaeopsis Mauritiana donated generously by ldcgroomer
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'
repens

pics in progress below it took much longer than anticipated and hard work but really happy with end result and much happier than I as with last scape as a larger open space from fish and shrimp also make spray bar full length of tank but a little concerned as all plants behind large rock a little worried about flow but we will see.for dosing going to start with 1-2 BPS of co2 and Monday, Wednesday, Friday dosing micro and Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday dosing macro and Saturday off.

kitchen was such a mess and took ages removing hairgrass


layout




planting








some moss on wood some sticking out of surface but will die so will have to remove


some moss attached to rock






any finally hc planted 1cm apart got plenty from the ebay seller at great price so very happy


what do you think of height of the lights ? and the layout will get some decent pics tomorrow when water clears, should I do daily water changes and should I dose anything after water change?

any recommendations for title welcome need to make this work and want fish within few weeks

Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (30 Aug 2013)

Few more pics since cleared





hope once grows in the rear right will all be colourful and tall and lovely open space on the left


everything covered in dusty mud so need thin brush to wipe the dust off plants etc ,the lights are 90cm from top of water you think lower or heighten ?
Thanks dean


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## Lindy (30 Aug 2013)

I'm no expert on lighting and hope that one of the experts comment here but failing that How about lowering but just using one bulb. Maybe start at 60cm and keep and eye on how things look. Co2 is the most important thing so get that right at lower lighting levels and then you can add more light once you feel in control. Get your co2 at a nice, non toxic level and you can add shrimp early on. Might be better going for cherries or something similar that is less likely to go walkabout than amanos. If you do want amanos you could cut baffles out of clear plastic to put on the pipes above the water surface so they can't climb up to the edge of the glass. Certainly nothing can beat amanos on appetite but they can be a bit too adventurous, one of mine got 3 metres away from its tank in the kitchen


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## Deano3 (31 Aug 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> I'm no expert on lighting and hope that one of the experts comment here but failing that How about lowering but just using one bulb. Maybe start at 60cm and keep and eye on how things look. Co2 is the most important thing so get that right at lower lighting levels and then you can add more light once you feel in control. Get your co2 at a nice, non toxic level and you can add shrimp early on. Might be better going for cherries or something similar that is less likely to go walkabout than amanos. If you do want amanos you could cut baffles out of clear plastic to put on the pipes above the water surface so they can't climb up to the edge of the glass. Certainly nothing can beat amanos on appetite but they can be a bit too adventurous, one of mine got 3 metres away from its tank in the kitchen



At the min only 1 x24w bulb , will post question in lighting section and ask, the co2 seemed right last time as ph dropping and yellow drop checker but hopefully this one will be green and everything will work, any Ideas on name for thread ? How often would you carry out water changes ? I also have to do that in a nighttime so would you do any dosing after water change ?

Thanks Dean


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## Lindy (31 Aug 2013)

I don't know! I found high-tech a total drag and then got into shrimp so there that story ended. In my 54l tank I had co2 at a low level(1bps) and my lighting isn't strong so I relied on a good substrate rather than EI and didn't choose stems. I think if you err on the side of caution with light this tank will do much better. Light seems to be the root of most evils in a planted tank according to Clive.


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## Iain Sutherland (31 Aug 2013)

Nice new scape deano, now to keep it that way.  As its a small tank I'd do 100% water changes daily followed by 50% dose of ferts. It's often recommended to just dose micros for the first few weeks as the plants have adequate stores of npk but its up to you. Keep lighting levels low but no so much the plants struggle... 60 cm from water is plenty with 1 tube. 
Just keep everything pristine... Pipes, glass, wood, rocks, everything that can be cleaned should be. Hard work now makes life simple later.  When you water change waft around the tank gently to stir up any crud and trim any melting leaves. Any signed of problems back the lighting intensity off. 5 hrs is a good start point I find.
Have a look at the tropica 90 day app. It talks you through the whole process daily. 
Best of luck.


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## Deano3 (31 Aug 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Nice new scape deano, now to keep it that way. As its a small tank I'd do 100% water changes daily followed by 50% dose of ferts. It's often recommended to just dose micros for the first few weeks as the plants have adequate stores of npk but its up to you. Keep lighting levels low but no so much the plants struggle... 60 cm from water is plenty with 1 tube.
> Just keep everything pristine... Pipes, glass, wood, rocks, everything that can be cleaned should be. Hard work now makes life simple later. When you water change waft around the tank gently to stir up any crud and trim any melting leaves. Any signed of problems back the lighting intensity off. 5 hrs is a good start point I find.
> Have a look at the tropica 90 day app. It talks you through the whole process daily.
> Best of luck.


 
ok I will do 90% water change or low as possible without bringing up substrate for first week or so then straight after water change dose half what I dose on morning micro or macro, will put lights at 60cm or so and watch out for melt etc and wipe down stones and wood every night for first week then after first week clean filter

that sound ok ?
any ideas for scape name
Thanks dean


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## Deano3 (31 Aug 2013)

well done 90% water change then refilled with airline hose took ages but didn't stir up the substrate lol cleaned rocks and glass , will clean filter weekly you think that be ok ? also dropped lights to 70cm after ater change dosed half the recommended dose ei macro and in morning do full micro dose that sounding ok and I will continue to do daily 90% for first week or so

also been reading lighting section and seems I have 2.7 wpg of light even though light is 70cm up still a lot gets reflected down into shallow aquarium  you think too much or should be fine at that height

Thanks Dean


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2013)

Is there a reflector you could take off the light unit? It does sound like a lot.


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## Deano3 (1 Sep 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> Is there a reflector you could take off the light unit? It does sound like a lot.


 
cannot remove the reflector no melt as yet but had gas on high constant flow lately, been reading PH today readings as follows
6.30am-7.7
10.30am-6.5 drop checker dark green
11.00am-6.4
11.30am-6.3 drop checker dark yellow
13.00pm-6.2
14.30pm-6.2
17.55pm-6.8

co2 on at 9am and off 4pm
lights on 12pm off 17.00pm

want to turn co2 down to 1-2bps but hard as fluctuates, might try my other reg when I get chance and lights at 70cm wonder if can buy 12w bulbs to fit the light unit

Thanks Dean

any ideas for name for scape ?


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## Samjpikey (4 Sep 2013)

Hey mate how's the new set up going ?? 



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## Deano3 (4 Sep 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> Hey mate how's the new set up going ??
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Hi same going well so far doing water changes every other day and no algae yet touch wood so hopefully grows in well and get livestock in there you like the look of it ? grass on right and along back and other longer plants and left is nice carpet of  hc hopefully when fills in

Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (5 Sep 2013)

Sounds good , 
Yea well I think it looks great , added colour always a scape stand out . 
The spray bar along the back is always the way to go I think now that I've done it , I get a nice turbine effect . 
Hope all goes well 


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## Iain Sutherland (5 Sep 2013)

Your ph readings look good so I wouldn't touch anything for now. Keep up the maintenance let the plants root and bulk out then worry about tweeking it for livestock. 
Keep it stable, keep it clean and all should be well. Obviously if you see issues then post up and get advise on what to change.


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## Deano3 (5 Sep 2013)

little update, well all going well tried my other regulator today same brand and make as didn't receive for a month when ordered then got another sent out then ended up with 2 ages ago  anyway tried that and still fluctuates slightly so going to have to live with it, least now I can sell one.getting bubbles on hc later on into photo period but not sure if pearling  here are some ph readings

7.00am-7.8
9.15am-7.5
11.00am-6.6
11.35am-6.5
12.00pm-6.4
14.30pm-6.4
19.50pm-7.1
23.00pm-7.6

been doing water change every other day and when re-filling using airline I spray leaves on repens etc to get dirt off. temperate is 28 degrees

one problem seems 2 portions of the HC developed some hair like algae hard to see in pics but best I can do for the minute what you think this is ? only on 2 small portions 







is this pearling of a small degree lol


during water change


still need thread name ?
Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (6 Sep 2013)

Hey dean . 
If I were you I'd scrap that reg , 
I went with a co2supermarket reg its so much better, you will be instantly relieved honestly  alot more control over the needle valve and no fluctuations . I don't think that reg is cut out for high pressure in line atomizers . Its that or buy a needle valve :/ 
That's my advice anyway  
Your tank has lots of potential and once all grown in will look very nice indeed 


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## Iain Sutherland (6 Sep 2013)

Hey Deano, the algae around the HC is a bit of a worry.. It does look like the early issues you had with the last scape. 
Something to do with your co2/ distrubution is still causing this. 
If I were you I'd pull the online atomiser off and try something else, an in tank diffuser maybe then run at a lower pressure to stop fluctuations. 
Have you taken the co2 line off and reduced pressure to see if it stops fluctuating? If it does then grab a diffuser and try it for a week or two....   You may be pleasantly suprised.


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## Lindy (6 Sep 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> I went with a co2supermarket reg its so much better,


 
I had 2 co2supermarket reg/solenoids before I got my money back. They couldn't keep a high enough pressure to run my up atomiser and they felt really cheap. I have an up aqua A-165 and it is great although the first one sent had to go back as the solenoid went mental in the middle of the night making a terrible noise.

Dean how many holes are in your spraybar? From the picture it looks like there aren't very many and this would restrict the flow.


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## Deano3 (6 Sep 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> I had 2 co2supermarket reg/solenoids before I got my money back. They couldn't keep a high enough pressure to run my up atomiser and they felt really cheap. I have an up aqua A-165 and it is great although the first one sent had to go back as the solenoid went mental in the middle of the night making a terrible noise.
> 
> Dean how many holes are in your spraybar? From the picture it looks like there aren't very many and this would restrict the flow.


 
10 holes along spraybar at 2ml each, thought the up atomiser was best way to diffuse co2 ? also had airline going into bubble counter and disconnected the atomiser and still fluctuated at low bps, you would think because its constantly fluctuating only takes 10 seconds to go up to 3 bar then drop to 2.5 bar it wound make any difference and co2 always entering aquarium its not likes takes hours and really slows down massively ? you still think a new reg would be best ?

CO2 Solenoid Regulator is this one anygood

Thanks Dean


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## Lindy (6 Sep 2013)

My UP atomiser was the in tank one, not external. I don't know about your reg, mine never moved from its setting and bubble count. I've no experience of all the different regs.
I have 16 holes in my spraybar and I don't think my filter is as strong as yours. Might want to think about more holes?


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## Deano3 (6 Sep 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> My UP atomiser was the in tank one, not external. I don't know about your reg, mine never moved from its setting and bubble count. I've no experience of all the different regs.
> I have 16 holes in my spraybar and I don't think my filter is as strong as yours. Might want to think about more holes?


will try this first I will add more holes tomorrow maybe another 6 or so in between the other holes ,will try this first and keep eyes out for any other algae

Dean


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## Andy Thurston (6 Sep 2013)

It sounds like your reg is not good enough for the up inline. some up inlines need 3-4 bar to work properly and your reg has not got enough pressure to supply a constant flow through the diffuser which in your case needs around 3 bar.
if you have an in tank diffuser, use that until you have a better reg. there are loads of posts about people having problems with up inline and cheap regs. some people think that its counterfeit units but I'm convinced its down to Chinese manufacturing quality


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## Samjpikey (6 Sep 2013)

[ 

CO2 Solenoid Regulator is this one anygood

Thanks Dean[/quote]




This is the one I have now mate , it has worked fine for me , plugged it in and pressed play and the bubble count hasn't changed since . 
But then again people have different experiences all the time with the same products . but you learn from your own mistakes  this was mine .. 
Cheers 


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## Deano3 (6 Sep 2013)

Big clown said:


> It sounds like your reg is not good enough for the up inline. some up inlines need 3-4 bar to work properly and your reg has not got enough pressure to supply a constant flow through the diffuser which in your case needs around 3 bar.
> if you have an in tank diffuser, use that until you have a better reg. there are loads of posts about people having problems with up inline and cheap regs. some people think that its counterfeit units but I'm convinced its down to Chinese manufacturing quality


 
I can adjust my pressure but heard stories of people blowing up the up inline diffuser with 4 bar etc + I put pipe from the regulator to bubble counter and let air just go to atmosphere and still fluctuates so must be regulator as diffuser was out of equation  , anyone else have experience with that regulator sam recommends ? gets tiring spending money lol but will sell my current 2 regulators and will pay for new one 

also do you really think a slight fluctuation could cause serious issues ? even when co2 off you can still hear diffusing so would think even though regulator fluctuation would still be constant into tank but until this is sorted think we will never know 

also sam is that regulator adjustable ?

Thanks dean


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## Andy Thurston (6 Sep 2013)

Deano3 said:


> I put pipe from the regulator to bubble counter and let air just go to atmosphere and still fluctuates so must be regulator as diffuser was out of equation


 can you get this fluctuation to stop by reducing the pressure without the diffuser attached, it does sound like the reg is faulty/damaged



Deano3 said:


> also do you really think a slight fluctuation could cause serious issues ? even when co2 off you can still hear diffusing so would think even though regulator fluctuation would still be constant into tank but until this is sorted think we will never know


 
looking at your ph readings in earlier posts co2 is getting to the tank so this fluctuation shouldn't make that much difference. perhaps you have other issues like flow, too much/little light etc. is it just the HC that's suffering. the hc in the 180 in my signature is running 2 x t5 about 40cm from the substrate and a ph drop of 1.2 throughout the photoperiod and the only problem we've had with that is some diatoms


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## Deano3 (6 Sep 2013)

Big clown said:


> can you get this fluctuation to stop by reducing the pressure without the diffuser attached, it does sound like the reg is faulty/damaged
> 
> 
> 
> looking at your ph readings in earlier posts co2 is getting to the tank so this fluctuation shouldn't make that much difference. perhaps you have other issues like flow, too much/little light etc. is it just the HC that's suffering. the hc in the 180 in my signature is running 2 x t5 about 40cm from the substrate and a ph drop of 1.2 throughout the photoperiod and the only problem we've had with that is some diatoms


 

I tried reducing pressure etc other day without anything connected and still fluctuates so must be regulator, also I know that's what I am thinking co2 is getting there but might purchase one to get fluctuation stopped once and for all lol you think that's best ? also only on 2 pieces of hc that's what weird and was hoping to get clen up crew in soon lol

Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (6 Sep 2013)

The output pressure  isn't adjustable but its set to 6.5 bar so will run high pressure atomizers ..... So it states . 

I currently only have a 0.6 ph drop on my set up , I have 3-4 dkh .
Water, also My ph doesn't get above 6 either and my tank is thriving and pearls straight away at lights on .... And within 20mins I get a full carpet of bubbles ..
 


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## Deano3 (6 Sep 2013)

6.5 bar I got told 4 bar etc would blow up the atomiser 

only flimsy plastic how does it work, I never tried at that pressure only 2-3 bar I could try upping pressure tomoz

Thanks dean


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## Alastair (6 Sep 2013)

Agreed 6.5 bar is really high. A bubble counter blew up in front of my face before now when I turned the working pressure up to 6 a couple of years ago. 

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## Andy Thurston (6 Sep 2013)

the one in their video is showing 2.5 bar working pressure. yours must have a dodgy guage sam. its the same reg that's in dans tank and seems pretty good.


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## Ady34 (7 Sep 2013)

Deano3 said:


> little update, well all going well tried my other regulator today same brand and make as didn't receive for a month when ordered then got another sent out then ended up with 2 ages ago  anyway tried that and still fluctuates slightly so going to have to live with it, least now I can sell one.getting bubbles on hc later on into photo period but not sure if pearling  here are some ph readings
> 
> 7.00am-7.8
> 9.15am-7.5
> ...


Hi Dean,
Your ph readings are good and I don't think light is overkill but your substrate is very 'dusty'. It seems to have deteriorated considerably and I'm thinking it may be coating the plants and effectively creating a barrier to co2 and nutrient uptake on the leaf regardless of readings in the water. This may also have been a contributing factor in the last set up and i wouldnt like the same thing to happen again as i know how much you want success and livestock. I would try to siphon as much of that broken down soil out and give your plants a waft and a rub daily to ensure the leaves are free from contamination so they don't suffocate.
The layout looks great and I really think it will look stunning once grown in.
Really hope this on works out for you, you deserve it mate 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Samjpikey (7 Sep 2013)

CO2 Regulator Solenoid Aquarium Home Brew Carbon Dioxide | eBay


If you check on their fleabay listing then it states to accommodate pressures up to 65 bar


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## tim (7 Sep 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> CO2 Regulator Solenoid Aquarium Home Brew Carbon Dioxide | eBay
> 
> 
> If you check on their fleabay listing then it states to accommodate pressures up to 65 bar


Wouldn't that be bottle pressure though not working pressure, I blew bubble counter up trying to use a blocked atomiser at around 5 bar scared the life out of the wife (and me tbh ) 
Good luck with this Deano it's looking good mate )


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2013)

I thought the substrate looked muddy too but couldn't remember what it was. Water needs to circulate through the substrate to a degree does it not?


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## Deano3 (7 Sep 2013)

Thanks for replies everyone , the surface of substrate is very fine dual so will get as much off as possible and wipe down plants, been using air line to blow off dust but just creates more lol you think I should up pressure to 4 bar and see if helps but of still fluctuating you think new reg ( the one listed from co2 supermarket) is best way to go ? Will have to wait until finish work

Thanks dean


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2013)

I had 2 from co2 supermarket that couldn't keep a high enough bar to use UP in tank atomiser, it was below 2bar. But then other folk have this one and it is fine. I just think you need to make sure whatever reg you get does the job you need it to do. If it doesn't meet its promises then contact seller immediately.


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## Samjpikey (7 Sep 2013)

Mine reads at 4 bar and all runs sweet


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## Andy Thurston (7 Sep 2013)

I thing youll find that 40 psi= 2.5 bar


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## Samjpikey (7 Sep 2013)

Roger that squadron leader  
Goes to show how much I know ! 


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## Deano3 (7 Sep 2013)

Ady34 said:


> Hi Dean,
> Your ph readings are good and I don't think light is overkill but your substrate is very 'dusty'. It seems to have deteriorated considerably and I'm thinking it may be coating the plants and effectively creating a barrier to co2 and nutrient uptake on the leaf regardless of readings in the water. This may also have been a contributing factor in the last set up and i wouldnt like the same thing to happen again as i know how much you want success and livestock. I would try to siphon as much of that broken down soil out and give your plants a waft and a rub daily to ensure the leaves are free from contamination so they don't suffocate.
> The layout looks great and I really think it will look stunning once grown in.
> Really hope this on works out for you, you deserve it mate
> ...


 
thanks ady and I agree plants seem coated in dust, I syphoned up as much as possible tonight and removed a lot of the top dust but messed up my substrate and still some dust on surface but removed a lot, sucked up loads of hc lol, found hc looking mushy and discoloured think its melt so hopefully picks up, still not purchased reg as not convinced that is majority of my problems, I will use paint brush and quickly wipe over larger plants tomorrow morning before work but hc will come up if touch that

Thanks Dean


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## Lindy (21 Sep 2013)

How's this going Dean?


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## Deano3 (22 Sep 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> How's this going Dean?


 not good at all Hair grass is practically gone and repens are melting  sorry not updated just trying to sort and sick of it, I removed the atomiser and put the pipe directly under the filter inlet the ph seemed better but still not right so for now put back onto atomiser, going to have to change something like the regulator or diffusion method here is a couple vids to show that flow etc looks ok







also shows fluctuation regulator the tank looks rubbish at the minute barley no hc left and lots of melt on repens and the red coloured plants and lost all colour in general also move lights up as going to end up with nothing, the grass still seems ok, need to make big changes with something I am willing to try anything and recommendations ? I need sorted as the fiancée getting sick of no fish and so am I, what you think about fluctuation ? every night dosing 7.5ml EI and 5ml liquid carbon but running out of that now you think should buy more ?

Thanks dean


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## GHNelson (22 Sep 2013)

Deano3 said:


> Thanks for replies everyone , the surface of substrate is very fine dual so will get as much off as possible and wipe down plants, been using air line to blow off dust but just creates more lol you think I should up pressure to 4 bar and see if helps but of still fluctuating you think new reg ( the one listed from co2 supermarket) is best way to go ? Will have to wait until finish work
> 
> Thanks dean


 
A fluctuating working pressure needle ......is a sure sign of a leak!
hoggie


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## Lindy (22 Sep 2013)

I'm really sorry to hear that had hoped everything was going so well you weren't coming online. I don't know enough to be able to suggest anything that hasn't been suggested already. If it were me I would be sick of it too, sorry of no help


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## tim (22 Sep 2013)

Hi mate, sorry the restart hasn't gone well, you seem to have some issues with your substrate IMO personally I'm not a fan of aquasoil in small tanks it's almost impossible to remove all the dust after moving stuff around IMO and I know lots of folks will disagree id be tempted to use tropica substrate capped with 3-5 mm sand or gravel it doesn't make as much mess when cleaning.


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## Lindy (22 Sep 2013)

I would agree with tim, that stuff looks like mud and I thought water should be able to circulate through substrate?


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## GHNelson (22 Sep 2013)

Looks like ADA Africana.....I had ADA Africana a couple of years ago.
Its not my cup of tea now...its too messy and compacts, although the plants seem to do okay in it.
hoggie


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## Deano3 (22 Sep 2013)

thanks guys and I will do this until sorted, Hogan it fluctuates even if nothing else connected so just regulator onto FE and sprayed all over and no leaks heard other people say the same about this reg, also have  a second reg exactly the same make and model and does the same at lower bps when turn right up its fine. Also my few pieces of HC are growing upwards what makes me think its a CO2 problem, its so expensive trying all these different ideas lol need to get oh right but no growth at all at the min just melt on repens etc don't want to remove all as will hardly be nothing left. I do agree about the ADA Africana it is messy and very very light so easy to pull up things and make the water messy etc but you would still think something else is at fault and not just substrate ?

thanks dean


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## Lindy (23 Sep 2013)

I've got the ADA Africana in my cube and its nice but I don't get the powdery layer over everything. When I pull up plants the fine dust stays suspended long enough for the filter to filter it out. It does pack down more than the Amazonia though and I had a real job pulling some of the plants up. Is it the powder Africana or normal size?


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## Deano3 (23 Sep 2013)

It's powder Africana mate and I know it's very fine and dusty, you think that fluctuation could cause bad co2 ? My hc is growing upwards so not getting co2 but drop checker is 1cm above substrate and yellow


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## Deano3 (23 Sep 2013)

really thinking about getting new regulator so I can keep a proper eye on BPS and that will also take that out of the equation, your thoughts ? I know some people recommend the co2 supermarket regulator but any other recommendations for around the £50-60 mark, only thing is I don't think that's  adjustable. Need to start making changes to find a cure, also should I pull out all the melted repens and hair grass and concentrate on few plants + PH I have left ?

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (24 Sep 2013)

Dean, nothing has changed from your last set up, you still have the same  fundamental problem that has always been there!
I am 99% sure all your problems are based around the plants not getting enough C02, nothing to do with substrate or light.
Are you sure you have C02 in that cylinder & not air LOL
If you can get, buy or even borrow a different reg, that would be where I would be going next!


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## Deano3 (24 Sep 2013)

foxfish said:


> Dean, nothing has changed from your last set up, you still have the same  fundamental problem that has always been there!
> I am 99% sure all your problems are based around the plants not getting enough C02, nothing to do with substrate or light.
> Are you sure you have C02 in that cylinder & not air LOL
> If you can get, buy or even borrow a different reg, that would be where I would be going next!


Thanks mate an I totally agree don't think anything todo with substrate etc just running out of things lol without spending money anyway but going to have to, has to be co2 as melt and no growth even though drop checker always yellow, and yes decently co2 according to label lol right so what regulator you recommend then ? Will sell my 2 next time free listing and that will pay for new one but will buy one tonight if recommend a decent one many people have tried, like I say loads of mixed reviews about co2 supermarket one

Also you recommend pulling out all the partially melted plants ? That will be putting in waste into tank and adding to the surface film ?

Thanks dean


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## aliclarke86 (24 Sep 2013)

I have heard nothing but good things about dupla regs but you are looking at about £150 to import one. Then there is dennerle who make top quality kit also. I have a tmc one but I don't run an inline defuser so can't comment on that but I know for a fact that George has stated on many occasions that he has had no problem running them inline. Tmc are by far the most reasonably priced (but they are not adjustable from what I gather) co2 regulators are a mine field it would seem  

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## foxfish (24 Sep 2013)

That is a difficult question Dean, as ali points out, budget regs can be a bit hit & miss!
Hopefully people will offer their opinion & you can find one.
Re the plants, I think (with gods will) that once you have things working, the plants will recover very quickly.
Honestly mate, in a small tank with reasonable maintenance, no fish & lots of gas, you should be able to watch the plants grow in font of your eyes


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## Lindy (24 Sep 2013)

I had 2 co2 supermarket reg/solenoids and neither was capable of running the up atomiser so both returned and refund given. I've had 2 UP aqua A-165s, the first had to be returned as the solenoid went mental but the second has been perfect and has an adjustable working pressure. With the A-165 you just have to be careful your working pressure isn't too high as this will make the fine adjustment of your bubble count impossible as it will go from 0-tons of bubbles with one movement of the needle valve. Keep the working pressure at the sweet spot and there is lots of play in the needle valve to get control. I don't use an FE though, I have a 1kg FLO canister which has lasted forever on my low bubble count.


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## Deano3 (24 Sep 2013)

Lots of help there thanks everyone, well £150 is out of the question lol looking at closer to £60 but I know that means may not be as reliable but will have to take a risk, as long as doesn't fluctuate like mine does in the video sure will be fine, so what tmc ones are recommended and anyone like the co2 supermarket ones ? Hopefully up up inline will be used along with the reg so anyone with experience with any of there or anything similar priced would be great , I will be willing to pay a little more but cannot afford £100 so hopefully something around £60

Thanks again everyone
Dean


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## Lindy (24 Sep 2013)

There is a JBL reg/solenoid in the for sale forum, page 3. I almost bought it but don't really need another.


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## Samjpikey (24 Sep 2013)

Hi , 
I think I have mentioned before. 
I'm using a co2 supermarket reg and have been for 4 weeks now , 
Running with an up inline atomizer no problems what so ever , I can adjust the needle valve from 0 bps to 10 bps with no hassle , also the solenoid works perfectly . 
I'm not saying you should go out and but one but for me they seem a quick fix to your problem and inexpensive . 
I know co2art sell a reg which they they say works fine with up atomizers , they also sell these . 
I know people like to go for something that will do the job but the cost of a decent one breaks the bank if you haven't got the spare monies . 
This has been discussed and I don't want to Bomb your thread , 
I think as long as you buy one from the UK (cheaply for £50-£60) you should be ok to exchange /refund  if you have no joy . 
 
Cheers 



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## Deano3 (24 Sep 2013)

I agree never waiting 30 days for delivery again and ordering from bay, and agree I suppose if doesn't work you get another one lol thanks Sam will be ordering a reg when finish work tonight and hopefully comes by Friday when I'm off

Also the Jbl one looks good anyone else use these ? Only thing is suppose with new one will get some warranty incase no good

Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (24 Sep 2013)

I was going to buy the tmc v2 pro  , it looks good and well built , I looked around and managed to get it for £70 but I was a tight ass and went cheaper and paid the £56 for the co2 SM one. 



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## tim (24 Sep 2013)

I use the jbl regulators never had a problem with them other than the price.


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## Deano3 (25 Sep 2013)

Ordering regulator to tonight stuck between co2 supermarket and tmc v2 but non are adjustable and co2 supermarket is cheaper so might just go for that I think, didn't get home till after 9 yesterday so didn't get a chance

Thanks for all opinions and help
Dean


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Sep 2013)

hey deano, if looking for a reg then these get good reviews and the needle valves are great.
CO2 Druckminderer US3 standard W21.8


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## Deano3 (25 Sep 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> hey deano, if looking for a reg then these get good reviews and the needle valves are great.
> CO2 Druckminderer US3 standard W21.8



Hi Ian don't want to have to wait that's the only problem so thinking tmc or co2 supermarket both seem to have good reviews

Dean


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## Deano3 (25 Sep 2013)

slight problem read great reviews about dennerle is the one you listed ian this make ? also I cannot read german how do I change the link into English ?

Thanks dean


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Sep 2013)

Its not dennerle dean, if you use google website translate it will work all the way to the payment page then you have to guess the info layout


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## Deano3 (25 Sep 2013)

lol do they have good reviews and are dennerle ones expensive ?

Dean


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## foxfish (25 Sep 2013)

Yes & yes.. I have two of them not quite as good as Dupla but nice all the same.
I think the base model is about £120 but one of mine is about 20 years old.


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## Deano3 (25 Sep 2013)

great quality and cannot go wrong for 20 years service  , are the ones in the link meant to be good then mate ? will try go through and order best I can if they are lol

also will it fit f/e

Dean


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## Deano3 (27 Sep 2013)

Not had chance to do anything yet but just been payed today so I can now pay slightly more maybe £80-100 for regulator for that price what would you recommend sorry to ask again german ones are meant to be good like dennerle and dupla but cannot find were to buy etc any help will be great and links etc want ordered ASAP

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2013)

I wish I could help but I am just not up to speed on what is available! I bought all of mine locally but the garden centre no longer exist.


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2013)

There is this Dennerle Scapers Aquarium Now In Stock! | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Deano3 (27 Sep 2013)

thanks mate only reg I could find was 	JBL Complete Co2 Kit with Disposable Bottle U401  >			JBL Co2 Kits and Consumables  >			Plantcare & CO<sub>2</sub> >			Tropical Aquarium  >			Home >		Aquajardin Limited so is dennerle same as jbl and would this fit FE cannot find that info, are these highly recommended ? suppose 20 years is good going lol

Dean


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## foxfish (27 Sep 2013)

Look at post 6 Dennerle Scapers Aquarium Now In Stock! | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Deano3 (27 Sep 2013)

I like the quantum but doesn't have a solenoid by the looks of it  anything else similar priced or a little cheaper that's recommended

Dean


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## Lindy (28 Sep 2013)

I've just rescape the cube with the ADAafricana and second time around, what a mess Don't think I'll use it again. Have been silly enough to try a steep slope with it so if it slides down I'm just going to strip it down and bin the Africana. My filter is currently blowing about mud .


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## aliclarke86 (28 Sep 2013)

I don't think any come with a solenoid  

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## sa80mark (28 Sep 2013)

On your budget my preference would be an up aqua from aqua essential this to my knowledge is the only adjustable pressure rwgulator in the price range


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## Samjpikey (28 Sep 2013)

Or there is the up a-165 from tank scape with adjustable . £75
Cheers 


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## foxfish (2 Oct 2013)

If only you r budget could stretch.....  Dupla CO2 Armatur Pro - Druckminderer - Aquariumzubehör Zubehör Druckentlastung | eBay


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2013)

Budget can stretch mate I am willing to buy a better one what lasts rather then spend less and need replacing, does that one on the bay u listed come with a solenoid ? 

Thanks for taking time to look and post mate most appreciated

Dean


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2013)

I don't think any regs come with a solenoid? Don't you already have one?
The reg & needle valve are the important components though...if you were really interested in buying a Dupla reg I would ask Ghostworld (Louis) on this forum as I know he uses that exact model. I have a slightly older model & it is full adjustable, completely reliable & lovely to look at!


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## aliclarke86 (3 Oct 2013)

I think Louis got his from a site that no longer exists. You can get them on amazon Dupla CO2 Armatur Pro - Druckminderer:Amazon.de:Haustier

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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2013)

I have a reg and solenoid in one but could I remove it and fit it to dupla reg

 They seem to be highly recommended

And do you just have urs on 24/7


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2013)

Hell no, I have a Dupla reg & neddle valve & a Dupla solenoid that is plugged into a timer, that is on my 200l tank.
The gas is on for the same length of time as my lights but comes on two hours before & two hours before lights off.


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2013)

That looks great mate think I will order that one as everyone agrees they are excellent, I will now require a solenoid any recommendations ? Unless I can use one on my reg but think its a all in one

Dean


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2013)

I would just check with Louis that the model in question will power an UP if that is what you want to do, as I say, mine is fully adjustable but it is an older model!
Can you post a pic of link to the reg you have at the moment...


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2013)

Will do when get home mate

Will try find Louis is that his name or username on here

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2013)

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/members/ghostsword.3792/


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2013)

spoke to Louis and says very adjustable and should work fine with inline diffuser will it fit straight onto fe and this is my current reg
 CO2 Regulator Aquarium Solenoid Magnetic Valve 110V | eBay

will require a solenoid I think mate so any links etc welcome

Dean


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## aliclarke86 (3 Oct 2013)

Solenoids are the same boat. You can pay between £15 to £70 for one. Co2 art do one that is pretty cheap and I found to work well but I've not used it for a while

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## sa80mark (3 Oct 2013)

Just to second what ali said the co2 art solinoids although cheap are exceptionally good i bought one as a quick cheap fix and was so happy with it bought another as a spare,


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## Deano3 (4 Oct 2013)

On my phone at work so trying to work out if cheaper on the bay or amazon including postage but amazon in German so cannot workout till get home, unless anyone else knows using the links provided, that co2 art solenoid is on £15 so that's great will get it ordered and turn this tank around hopefully lol

Dean


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## aliclarke86 (4 Oct 2013)

German amazon for dupla works out at £110 before postage but I think postage is usually pretty cheap eBay works out about £130 ish so amazon looks cheaper but depends on postage

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## aliclarke86 (4 Oct 2013)

Just tried and they won't ship to UK from amazon 

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## Deano3 (4 Oct 2013)

Thanks for that anyway mate worth a try
Will get eBay one ordered
Dean


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## Deano3 (4 Oct 2013)

dupla reg ordered hopefully never need another one lol is this the solenoid that is recommended
CO2 Solenoid Valve For Planted Aquariums | CO2Art.co.uk - CO2 Aquarium Specialists

thanks dean


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## sa80mark (4 Oct 2013)

Yes mate there the ones


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## Deano3 (5 Oct 2013)

dennerle reg and co2 art solenoid ordered so hopefully not take too long to arrive

will keep up water changes every 2-3 days etc until then

Thanks and will keep you posted
Dean


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## Samjpikey (5 Oct 2013)

Sounds like you could have found the right piece for the puzzle there mate  
I hope this fixes things for you and you nail that scape .  


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## foxfish (5 Oct 2013)

Exciting stuff mate the reg looks beautiful in the pictures....like a work of art! lol


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## Deano3 (5 Oct 2013)

thanks guys will keep you posted thanks for help so far

THIS WILL HAPPEN LOL 

Dean


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## Deano3 (6 Oct 2013)

I want to build a cabinet for this aquarium anyone know any good websites or journals on here what give explanations or help on building cabinet, I am ok ay DIY and have all the tools just ant to know best design for strength, only a shallow 30l so doesn't need to be super strong

any help welcome
found kirks but not many pics
New plans, finally got me opti. 80x40x40 | UK Aquatic Plant Society

Thanks dean


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## sa80mark (6 Oct 2013)

Theres a few journals ive come across with diy cabinets its just a case of finding them, try the seach feature also theres a few in the diy section,

For your tank a standard 18mm mdf carcass will be more than enough


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## Deano3 (11 Oct 2013)

Help needed Ordered this reg about week ago .SeaMe.com internetshop for aquamriumproducts

Dennerle anyway I got this email when asking if posted and for tracking number

hello dean

i had to order it in 
you told me that you ordered dennerle but is was duple on your bill
and i didn't stock the duple
if you need it fast i can ship the best one of dennerle
please let me know
regards leo

What you guys thik it looks like dennerle but says in duple are they good and what would you do

Thanks dean


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## tim (11 Oct 2013)

I think the dupla reg is the one foxfish recommended and ghost word uses, I'd wait for the dupla mate I'm wanting one myself looks solid.


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## foxfish (11 Oct 2013)

foxfish said:


> If only you r budget could stretch.....  Dupla CO2 Armatur Pro - Druckminderer - Aquariumzubehör Zubehör Druckentlastung | eBay


 This is the one you want, I use both Dupla &  Dennerle but Dupla are the slightly better quality.


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## foxfish (11 Oct 2013)

You could ask to see the  Dennerle model & it specification but we know through Ghost Word that the Dupla is good!


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## Deano3 (11 Oct 2013)

Dupla it is thanks mate just making sure they are better or just as good, been a week and he just saying waiting to get them in stock , thought would have been on its way to my house lol

Dean


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## Andy Thurston (11 Oct 2013)

foxfish said:


> This is the one you want, I use both Dupla &  Dennerle but Dupla are the slightly better quality.


£117.....  You could nearly diy a boc reg for that money.
But it does look nice and will be much better than any chinese reg. hope it sorts your problems, good luck


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## Samjpikey (16 Oct 2013)

Hey man  any updates on your reg yet ? 


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## Deano3 (16 Oct 2013)

Hi Sam no update I emailed the company asking  when getting delivered as been nearly 2 weeks now and still awaiting another email,  going to have to get in touch with paypal soon as only get 3 weeks to start dispute I think so not very good so far, will keep you posted mate and thanks for sticking by my journal  I am so determined to have a thriving aquarium , honestly dying to  buy a 90cm NA but to risky and cannot get this one going yet lol also thinking of using a easier plant instead of HC maybe glosso or something similar what you think ?

Thanks dean


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## Lindy (17 Oct 2013)

Why don't you try elantine it grows low or high tech. I have some in my cube.


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

**good and bad news good news is reg arrived today  bad news is the plastic piece what the co2 tubing goes onto is snapped and was lying at bottom of box  should be plastic really but goin to go to pirtec today se of anything same size, also rang rounds to get FE refilled got quoted £29 then eventually came across great company dropped one full off at house and took mine away for £12  that seems reasonable so will keep everyone up to date and let you know how get on looking for replacement part, will fit tomorrow aslong as get that part, if you look at the pic of it you will see the piece I mean but apart from that plastic piece the rest seems very solid and well made you can feel the weiht difference and quality of it, will post pics later as trying to looking after bairn today

Dean


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

well been all over today been to BOC, screwfix, pirtech,dobbies and nothing so might end up having to wait for one bit annoying well built reg with flimsy plastic air-pipe connection   might check pets at home but doubt it any one know were might have something like this ?

Thanks dean


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## aliclarke86 (22 Oct 2013)

I have some barbed 4/6 connectors if the plastic bit unscrews and has a 1/8" thread they will work. I feel bad as I pointed you to the seller

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## aliclarke86 (22 Oct 2013)

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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

lol don't be stupid its not ur fault mate its strange though its a solid reg with flimsy plastic piece,some pics also looks a lot smaller than them what u have






no luck again lol emailed seame.com but takes ages to get one back normally 4 days so bad communication
Dean


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## foxfish (22 Oct 2013)

Bad luck Dean, that is a pretty basic component but you need the fitting & thread size, did it come with any literature?


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

it says
*technical data*
type of gas:co2 connection acc to DIN 477 part 1 connection number 6
working pressure:0-3 bar
gauge connection:2 x G 1/4"
valve spindle: stainless steel
connections: output for co2 hose, size 3 x 1 <-------------------------------------------that's what I imagine is the broken bit
micro filter 2 integrated
material: brass nickel plated
weight 1030g


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## Andy Thurston (22 Oct 2013)

Very bad luck. Any pneumatic company's near you they will probably have smaller fittings than boc 
Looking at ali's fitting, it looks fairly close to me but its hard to tell. Can you measure the outside diameter of the male thread

1/8bsp thread has an od of 9.728mm and 28 threads per inch
1/16bsp thread has an od of 7.723mm and 28 threads per inch


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## foxfish (22 Oct 2013)

I would guess that the fitting is 1/4'' thread, the same as the other connections, the 3x1 maybe means 3mm barb with a 1mm hole?


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

give me 5mins mate get out the micrometer


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## foxfish (22 Oct 2013)

Maybe like this Hose Tail Barb Brass 1/4 bspt x 1/8 3mm Pk10 [GT13/04K (10)] - £12.00 : FEP Hydraulics, Fluid Power Engineering


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

ok the micrometer on the threads is 0.3 inch or 7mm inner hole is 0.1 inch or 3mm


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Oct 2013)

Oh no, not another setback


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Oct 2013)

LOL as if  THE FOX has sorted it in one!


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Oh no, not another setback


 tell iz about it mate


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

you think the co2 piping would go over that mate and I might have a look at pirtec as one near me thanks so much you thinks that one would work


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## foxfish (22 Oct 2013)

Hi Dean I am only guessing the thread is 1/4'' & CO2 tube is 4mm/6mm = 3/16" and 1/4" ID - OD
So you want a 1/4'' thread to 6mm OD barb fitting or 1/4'' thread  to 1/4'' OD fitting .... maybe I think LOL


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## aliclarke86 (22 Oct 2013)

Looking at my barbed connector I think in is actually 1/4 inch I can post to you if you wanna try?

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## Andy Thurston (22 Oct 2013)

Guess again heres a photo of a 1/4bsp nipple


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## aliclarke86 (22 Oct 2013)

Just tried it in a 1/2" to 1/8" bush and it is 1/8" it fits in my reg and solonoid so should fit yours

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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

in school we only learnt metric and never learnt imperial so very strange  might be worth a try anyway, if you put it flat with bottom on a ruller and hole on bottom is the width around 0.3 inch or 7mm on the treads if that makes sense

that's the thing but no info on size
DUPLA Schlauchtülle für Co2 ERSATZTEIL 80200 - Mrutzek Meeresaquaristik GmbH

Dean


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## Andy Thurston (22 Oct 2013)

Hi dean if the threads tapered then you need the largest diameter. with my limited experience of aquatic regs, all the fittings into the solenoid have been 1/8 bsp. I would say the fitting that ali has would be the right size. If you have a spare reg you could probably use the fitting from that. If none of those fit and pirtec dont have what you need a local pneumatic firm or rc model shop would be my next place to try


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## Deano3 (22 Oct 2013)

its not tapered and defently 7.7 not 9.7 so think 1/16

thanks dean


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

been to 2-3 pneumatic shops today and one had 1/8 bsp barbed fitting but was too big so like big clown says think it might be 1/16 any help with finding one online would be great a metal one preferably

Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (23 Oct 2013)

You mean the barb was to big or the treaded end?
C02 tube is 6mm outside 4mm inside.


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

the thread end was a little larger than then plastic one 

Dean


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## foxfish (23 Oct 2013)

I think you need to Email Dupla  or the shop you bought it from & get the exact size, otherwise we are just chasing our tails!


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

ok thanks I have emailed but terrible communication takes ages for him to email back I will email dupla

Thanks mate


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

whats the official dupla website ?

dean


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## foxfish (23 Oct 2013)

I don't know just spent 10  mins on Google LOL.. is there an address on the reg literature?


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

Dohse Aquaristik KG this is small on guarantee form

looking for contact bit


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## Deano3 (23 Oct 2013)

filled in contact form so hopefully get back to me

Dean


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## foxfish (25 Oct 2013)

Any news mate?


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

Just got email saying he us sending part out, still would like a metal one as will easily snap this one lol

So hopefully next few days , I am working till Monday then 12 days off so will get done then just wait done nice growth, also try finish my cabinet project


Thanks Dean


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## Andy Thurston (25 Oct 2013)

Try search micro hose barbs they do exist but are hard to find. I had a quick look yesterday but my internet. Im not so sure the thread is 1/16bsp all the smaller fittings i found were metric threads. The smallest bsp hose barbs i found were 1/8bsp.

Try giving thorite a call 0800 345850


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## foxfish (25 Oct 2013)

If I had the dimensions or the component I could just walk into a locale irrigation store & get one!


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

When it arrives the thread should be in better condition as the one I removed was had to see threads a only plastic, might take a 8 mm bolt from work make sure not that but we will get to the bottom and I want a metal one, thanks for all help and looking so far guys 




Thanks Dean


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## Lindy (25 Oct 2013)

You could send the broken bit to Foxfish to see if he could get you a metal one.


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

I could send you the broken one if u think you could find me a metal one fox fish ? only if you really don't mind and there would be no rush at all but I really don't mind

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (25 Oct 2013)

I don't think it will be difficult if you know the exact size to look for, no reply to your Email then?


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

not from dupla no but the seller is posting me another plastic one out

Dean


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## foxfish (25 Oct 2013)

Well if you just take the brocken threaded end into any nut & bolt type store (B&Q maybe) & find a nut that fits you will know the size.


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2013)

hard to see on plastic thread as chewed up a bit but might be easier to see on new one so will look then, hopefully not be too long

Dean


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## Deano3 (26 Oct 2013)

took 8mm bolt from work and screws in few threads then keep tightening and loosing and worked in a few threads so 8mm , had white stuff in the threads blocking them that's why worked the  bolt in and out, the old one was only in a little amount so need a 8mm to 4-6mm barb

Dean


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## Deano3 (27 Oct 2013)

Anyone know we're I can purchase 8mm thread  to 4mm barb fitting ?


Thanks Dean


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## Andy Thurston (27 Oct 2013)

Hi dean 
These are the only place i can find but theres no price and you need to contact them. It looks like its a part you need to order so might take a while
Drive bushing/Barb fittings
Cheers
Andy


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## Deano3 (27 Oct 2013)

thanks for looking andy very helpful might ring round local again and if nothing 8mm 1.25 thread to 4mm barb will email them thanks so much for your time and help 

Dean


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## foxfish (28 Oct 2013)

Hi Dean, I might be able to get something from my local irrigation store but I am away from home for the next few days.
Back on Friday but wont be able to look until Monday...


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## Deano3 (28 Oct 2013)

thanks mate if I don't get one by then that would be great so let you know, going to try pirtec again since know the size and pneumatic place

Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (4 Nov 2013)

ok been to help work mate today remove landrover mk 2 cylinder head off and borrowed his thread pitch tool and looks like it is 8mm fine thread 1.0 so I need a 8mm with 1.0 thread to 4mm barb fitting   any help at all finding on of these would be greatly appreciated, least I now know the thread and size

Thanks dean


----------



## anttthony (4 Nov 2013)

We have a hydraulic bloke comes in making pipework for are engines he usually has everything il ask him when he turns up

ant


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## Deano3 (4 Nov 2013)

thanks mate appreciate it, if anyone else finds any one the net just post the link and will order a couple

Thanks dean


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## anttthony (4 Nov 2013)

I recon the 6 mm would work thers one on ebay too

Check out this item I found on eBay: http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=360749744482
ant


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## Deano3 (8 Nov 2013)

well everybody correct thread and now in regulator   but cannot get pipe on I got  it started its over first barb but unable to get up any more, I cut a snip in the end to get started also put grease on barb and also heated the pipe and used hair dryer to get on but unable to force on any more   only thing can think of is buying some 6mm internal diameter pipe and buyinh a 6-4mm reducer like this  Plastic Hose Pipe Tube Connector Joiner Connect Silicone Rubber PVC Join | eBay is there any  more local shops that may stock something like this or some 6mm piping

Thanks so far, slowly but surely getting there
Dean


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## aliclarke86 (8 Nov 2013)

Could you not see if its air tight where it is? If its that tight you may have a good seal? Did the one I sent you not fit?

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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Nov 2013)

Use boiling water deano. That works a treat normally.


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## Deano3 (9 Nov 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> Could you not see if its air tight where it is? If its that tight you may have a good seal? Did the one I sent you not fit?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


totally forgot you were sending one but not received one from you yet mate and boiling water also didn't work and not on enough at all so need 6mm reducer and 6mm tubing aswel

Dean


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## aliclarke86 (9 Nov 2013)

Really? The Mrs put it through work post.....I hope it didn't get noticed 

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## Deano3 (9 Nov 2013)

sure wouldn't have got noticed mate but not received it and totally forgot you were sending


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## Deano3 (10 Nov 2013)

Just a question will I be able to use any sort of tubing or will it be required to be co2 proof ? It only sends a bubble every second or so so not high pressure or anything

Thanks dean


Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (11 Nov 2013)

Anyone ?


Thanks Dean


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## sa80mark (11 Nov 2013)

I think im right in saying it needs to Polyurethane ?


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## Andy Thurston (11 Nov 2013)

I think marks right
Back to the pneumatic places for a bit of pipe


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## sa80mark (11 Nov 2013)

A quick Google search suggests its commonly labeled as PU tubing


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## sa80mark (11 Nov 2013)

This is the best I can find on ebay 

 Top quality 10 meters OD 8mm ID 6mm BLUE PU tube tubing F-T0806PUTUBE1 | eBay


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## Deano3 (11 Nov 2013)

Brilliant thanks mate very helpful , one thing after another lol will get some ordered in industrial estate at the min might pop to hydraulic shop see if have any



Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2013)

Well going to have to order the one from the link from the bay as checked everywhere local and none, wish I could find m8 1.0 thread to 4mm barb would look so much better and save buying more bits and bobs very disappointed with dupla for stupid plastic fitting 




Thanks Dean


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## sa80mark (12 Nov 2013)

This is the only one I can find thats close to 4mm barb


	TAIL CONNECTOR EXT THREAD M8  | S.31291 | Malpasonline.co.uk


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2013)

What size u think that is ? Rather than spending £20 on hose that's all will it be quite a bit smaller than the other one you think ?


Thanks Dean


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## sa80mark (12 Nov 2013)

It says its a 3 -4mm barb so it might be slightly on the loose side ?


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## Andy Thurston (12 Nov 2013)

Hi dean
This is a tricky part to get hold of.  If you can't get one locally marks link is good or you can try thorite technical help 0843 3091978 and ask if they can get them for you. Failing that post me a m8 x 30 long brass bolt and I'll make you one next time i'm near a lathe


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2013)

emailed them hopefully they can check if not wonder if a way of having the m8 1.0 to another thread then to a barb that's 4mm lol thanks mark hopefully they get back to me first thing so can get ordered

Dean


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## anttthony (12 Nov 2013)

Might be able to tap it to m8 x1.5 if thats any easier to get hold off

ant


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2013)

its brand new don't really want to tap it out lol will see what they say or if anyone can comeup with a m8 1.0 adapter to something else that is easier to get 4mm barbs post links and I will purchase as don't really ant 6mm pipe to 4mm pipe will look a mess but if I have to I will

Thanks dean


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## anttthony (12 Nov 2013)

Nightmare

ant


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (12 Nov 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> Mine reads at 4 bar and all runs sweet


 
40 pounds per square inch =
2.75790292 bar


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (12 Nov 2013)

Hey Dean,

Well youve got about 9 pages of trying to work out which part it is  . Hows the tank doing? is it all melted or holding up?


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Hey Dean,
> 
> Well youve got about 9 pages of trying to work out which part it is  . Hows the tank doing? is it all melted or holding up?


Repens melting but finally thanks to mark got this part today, going for some co2 tubing tomorrow at dobbies, not sure Wat to do as waiting for some manze wood from Tom bar with a few other ppl on here and not sure weather to wait until that comes as will be doing slight re-scape or just set the co2 up , remember my original fault of plants not growing etc and melt , I am still not sure that the fault will be sorted but we can hope and pray lol trying to upload pic but tapatalk says you do not have permissions to upload or view this when click on pic to upload ?

Thanks dean



Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

To view this page or preform this action ?


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (15 Nov 2013)

Are you using tapatalk? I get that sometime I just exit the app and reload. Its really annoying if you write a long post as you lose the whole thing!!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

Just tried after exit and says the same just trying to upload a pic if regulator ? Does it need to get approved off someone ?

Dean


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (15 Nov 2013)

Make sure you click image not attachment 

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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

I was just clicking the picture sign below we're u type ?


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (15 Nov 2013)

If it looks like this 



Then use tapatalk hosted option 

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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

Here's my new push fit fitting thanks to mark , thanks Ali found out how to get it working




Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (15 Nov 2013)

That looks loads better than the plastic bit it came with! 

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## sa80mark (15 Nov 2013)

Looking good mate


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

I know ali thanks like I said buying some more co2 pipe tomorrow then not sure weather to set up or wait for my new wood and re-scape
what you think/.

Dean4


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2013)

sa80mark said:


> Looking good mate


 thanks to you mate


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## Lindy (16 Nov 2013)

I'd get on with growing the plants so that when its time to rescape you have healthy, algae free plants to be starting with.


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## aliclarke86 (16 Nov 2013)

I agree get some plants in there see if your new reg has solved some issues 

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## Deano3 (17 Nov 2013)

Well installed new reg today and checked for leaks at first leaked I beetween the brass price on push fit but think pipe want pushed in enough and seems ok now, we use them all the time at work for 10 bar breaking systems so shouldn't leak touch wood also a quick questions I have added the co2 supermarket solenoid and put it on timer when it switches off and co2 cannot get through will it just build up and stop ? Shouldn't blow of pipes or anything ? Had to just rest ontop of filter until more co2 pie arrives and nearly finished my aquarium stand so then can attach permanently on there
Trying to show bubbles here in tank no fluctuation anyway and as previously said needle valve is excellent









Plants not in best health to be honest but hopefully come round









Lowered the light a little but still quite high but will see how it goes





So what you guys think and what you recommend over next few days ? Water changes etc 


Thanks Dean


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## sa80mark (17 Nov 2013)

Looking good matey, only thing id recommend is shorten the length of pipe between the reg and solenoid,  keep this length as short as possible  

The push fit wont leak its rated for 10bar so once the pipes seated correctly it will be trouble free 

Keep the water changes large and regular and keep co2 high and you will be fine


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## Deano3 (17 Nov 2013)

sa80mark said:


> Looking good matey, only thing id recommend is shorten the length of pipe between the reg and solenoid, keep this length as short as possible
> 
> The push fit wont leak its rated for 10bar so once the pipes seated correctly it will be trouble free
> 
> Keep the water changes large and regular and keep co2 high and you will be fine


 
cheers mark, left it long as nearly finished cabinet and will permanently fit into cabinet and chop correct size then so hopefully be done in week or 2 as back at work for 4 days tomorrow then will try get finished. how often would you recommend water change every 2 days ? also I normally only dose EI after my water change for example if macro day I don't dose on morning just after water change is that correct or should I dose morning then after water change and also after water change I only doe what I am supposed to  that day is that ok or would you dose both ?

cheers mate


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## sa80mark (17 Nov 2013)

Water changes try to do them daily for atleast a week I was doing mine daily for 4 weeks, in a high tech tank as often as possible is always best, if you can only do it every 2 days then thay might work just try and do as much as possible 75% or more imo, 

With dosing imo its best to dose after water change but this only really works if you do your water changes before lights on but I think aslong as your dosing thays the main thing


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## Deano3 (17 Nov 2013)

sa80mark said:


> Water changes try to do them daily for atleast a week I was doing mine daily for 4 weeks, in a high tech tank as often as possible is always best, if you can only do it every 2 days then thay might work just try and do as much as possible 75% or more imo,
> 
> With dosing imo its best to dose after water change but this only really works if you do your water changes before lights on but I think aslong as your dosing thays the main thing


 cheers mate will do daily (hate doing WCs   so boring but essential none the less) also will dose after WC at the mine bps set around 2 so will see what colour DC goes tomorrow but at work all day, and lastly I set my reg to 2.5 bar and its dropped slightly do they always drop after the solenoid switches off ?

Thanks dean


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## sa80mark (17 Nov 2013)

If you have no live stock in dont be scared to crank the co2 up even higher 

Water changes can be boring but a few weeks of doing them will pay dividends also be happy you only have 15l to do, imagine doimg 200l + lol 

Fingers crossed things work out this time


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## foxfish (18 Nov 2013)

Dean, as your tank has been going for so long and you don't really have algae issues, you might not need to do so many water changes... just fill her up with loads of C02.
This is your chance to test out the reg, lower the light turn up gas and watch the plants grow.
You cant hurt the plants with to much C02 but you can kill any fish you put in, so now is the time to play.


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> Dean, as your tank has been going for so long and you don't really have algae issues, you might not need to do so many water changes... just fill her up with loads of C02.
> This is your chance to test out the reg, lower the light turn up gas and watch the plants grow.
> You cant hurt the plants with to much C02 but you can kill any fish you put in, so now is the time to play.



I thought that as being running a while so will do water change every other day, wish I was in to test etc my lass is working as wel so no one to check, like I said earlier my pressure seemed to slowly drop over a long period of time from 2.5 to about 2.2 does it always drop and them raise when running ?

Thanks dean


Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (18 Nov 2013)

When I said lower the light I meant lower it closer to the tank 
Yes, when the solenoid is open the pressure will drop, it depends on what your are powering as to how much it will drop.
A high resistance UP device for instance might not cause a drop at all but, a low resistance reactor might cause a considerable drop in working pressure.
Just double your bubble count & give it more light for a few days, you should see a very quick response from the plants.


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> When I said lower the light I meant lower it closer to the tank
> Yes, when the solenoid is open the pressure will drop, it depends on what your are powering as to how much it will drop.
> A high resistance UP device for instance might not cause a drop at all but, a low resistance reactor might cause a considerable drop in working pressure.
> Just double your bubble count & give it more light for a few days, you should see a very quick response from the plants.


Cheers mate don't worry there I will lower after work lol and add more bps and do a short vid of the bps to give u an idea, might actually change so lights on at 7 when I finish work so can have a quick look etc might put lights on 14.00-20.00 will put light 30cm or so above tank mate cheers


Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2013)

Lowered light to about 50cm above tank and upped the bps maybe 3bps at the min also set co2 on 11.00 lights on 14.00 co2 off 19.00 lights off 20.00 so see how it goes will do large water change tomorrow night after work





Dean


Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (18 Nov 2013)

Sounds like a good start mate but I would hope to see that light a lot lower before to long!
Best do it slowly though, If you can get a few PH reading that would be interesting.


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2013)

foxfish said:


> Sounds like a good start mate but I would hope to see that light a lot lower before to long!
> Best do it slowly though, If you can get a few PH reading that would be interesting.


My lass is off Thursday so will have to be then mate and I know hopefully get lower for better growth but see how it goes keep you posted anyway mate 

Cheers dean 


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (18 Nov 2013)

Are you going yo be rescaping or sticking with your current layout??

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## Deano3 (19 Nov 2013)

Waiting on some manzi wood just wanna see how plants do at the moment mate then maybe re-scape but I like the general layout at the minute with open part etc

Dean 


Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (23 Nov 2013)

Well bubbles are around 3-4 second and cannot really count lol ph readings today are as follows 

11.00 am - 7.4
12.45pm - 6.3
13.45 pm - 6.3/6.2
15.40 pm - 6.1

Co2 on at 11.00 and lights on at 14.00 co2 off at 19.00 lights off 20.00

Had some melt when at 1-2 bps so upped today but really would like to see some peeling but still none 








You can see melt on the repens manzi wood arrived and looks great but want to get sorted first so no melt and healthy growth

Thanks dean



Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (24 Nov 2013)

You should by all means be seeing growth nearly everyday , crank the co2/ferts and lighting , no livestock = high amounts of co2 = amazing plant growth


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## foxfish (24 Nov 2013)

Dean, I could not agree more with Sam, you have nothing to loose just crank it up boy!!
This has been going on for far to long... lower the light right down to the tank & pour in the gas... it works for every one else so it will work for you too.
Pearling is quite likely but this has a lot to do with 02 content as well as C02 content so don't worry about that.


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## Deano3 (25 Nov 2013)

sorry didn't realise had reply I have cranked the co2 up high and lowered the lights its only 21cm above water surface now I have had melt recently on the repens and removed the affected 2 plants, just carried out water change and then dosed 6.5ml macro ferts, its strange as the grass closer to surface on the right looks a lot healthier and the grass on the lower part got algae ontop but also cut the affected bits off, tried getting as much algae off as possible not to bad don't get me wrong but also covered in a dusty algae that's brown and also only on the bottom grass and plants and my moss isn't growing at all and never really has, the drop checker is only half cm from substrate and always yellow at lights on, you can see all plants moving in the flow slightly and I know this sounds silly but is there such a thing as too much flow ? was thinking maybe too powerful and blowing the co2 off the plants at bottom as the grass on the right is slightly protected by large rock. anyway here are some pics and thanks for advise guys like I say co2 UP lights DOWN

new position


few random shots






BPS short video 




also had to throw a pic in of my new manzi wood for future  but a lot to sort before that time




thanks dean


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## Deano3 (26 Nov 2013)

That bps should be good enough I imagine ?




Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (26 Nov 2013)

I have a non return valve on my air line after the bubble counter should I have one before incase water goes backwards into regulator ? and you think the bps in above vid are good enough

Thank dean


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## sa80mark (26 Nov 2013)

I would pit one before and one after the bubble counter just for peace of mind 

I cant view the video  when youve got no live stock in there no limit to how much co2 you use so dont be worried about running it high, I was running mine massively high, so much I couldn't count the bubbles but id guess I was pushing about 4-5 bps

Mark


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## clone (27 Nov 2013)

Hi, I am glad to see some pictures from your tank mate. I was wondering what s going on with the actual tank  Every beginning is hard, so be rady for a lot of frustration and dissapointment hand in hand with joy and happiness from the achieved results,until learn the art of growing aquatic garden. I know that you worry a lot about the technical part and what to do and dont do what is good for the plant and fish and what is not. There are not secrets and dark science in this hobby just some urban legends and myths, which you will find out via trial and error. If your tank doesn go well, eliminate all negative elements which you know. If still is not well there is somethig which you may do not know so read not only the forums but some real science articles on the web which might not be true again. In UKAPS particulary there are people with great knowledge both based on science and experience you will know who  I had a great problems with Cyano in the past. I read everything I could find about Cyano in the net , I eliminate all reasons which I know for cyano like hi PO4, dirty filters too much light an s.o. I even change my RO filters thinking the Cyano might live in there Still there was a cyano in my tank killing my moss and plants. I read about the efects of antibiotic over cyano  and try it together with hydrogen peroxide and blackout for 3 days. No visble cyano so far in the same tank  I blast the lights which was 40w LED for 30l tank...a huge overkill it was like a desert sun  The plants flourish within a week I also kind of overdose PO4 couse I add some red stem plants. The colours was awesome and still no algae. Blast on the CO2 as well according the golden triangle: LIGHT=FERTS=CO2  and yeah I have learned a lot hitting those problems. I think that reskaping will not kill the algae cause the algae can appear even in your new skape. Understanding of the reasons and the results of each of the elements of the golden triangle and how the tiny ecosystem works will help you beat the algae or may be just controll it.
		  Imagine you tank is a car.... Push the lights and plant growth will accelerate to some limit where will start to appear algae, More ferts are more fuel in your car so if you dont put enough but press the accelerator you plants will show signs of deficiencies and will start to release sugars in the watercolumn and feed the algae. The light is also your brake.....in therms less light but more fuel ( ferts) or CO2 your live stock may struggle or algae may overtake the plants. There are opinions that overdosing ferts do not cause algae, Which I have still to prive my self, Because in every tank you have more than one factor, like  too much ferts ...but can be hi-light, no CO2 or slow growing plants which can not uptake excess ferts in your watercolumn. Saying that too much ferts will not cause algae means you eliminate the other factors which is impossible...
	 CO2 is like clutch so shifting to hi- lighted tank require CO2 but dosed acoording the type of plants their CO2 uptake (photosynthesis) and the live stock ( if no live stock) you can possibly blast it but that can affect your pH if your water if not buffered due the carbonic acid. That is why CO2 controllers based on pH does not give constant flow of CO2 during the photoperiod. Placing you Co2 diffuser ( if you dont use in-line one) is another factor affecting the CO2 distribution in your tank. I think that the best is to place it close to the bottom across ( the opposite side of the tank) the outflow (lilly) pipe. The water current will stirr CO2 better and bring it to the plant leaves possibly all over your tank. 

What I have learned so far:
1/ Plan you aquaskape according you tank to be easy managable for cleaning and maintanance hard skape may obsruct your hands when trimming you plants or clean hardskape( if you are lefthanded put your main trimming plant mass on the rigt side of your tank lets say). Think about waterflow not hitting large hardskape causing dead spots. How to place your Lilly pipes and diffuser so the current will bring CO2 to all plant leaves. What plants will grow, Put some fast growing easy plants so will uptake nutritiens quick especially on you dead spots of your tank (behind big rock or something, also some corner) the nutritients can accumulate in there so the plants will "eat" them quick just before the algae Shallow tanks loose CO2 from the watercolumn but are easy on the light ( not to much water to penetrate) and aeration.  They also get cold or hot aesy lets say if you have metal halide over them too close so be carefull. You can always put cover glass to prevent evaporation the shallows has big water surface/ volume proportion but will be not very pleasant for the eye  . On the shallows you can grow nicely helioptic plants and floating plants they evn look more natural in there IMO.
2/ Set you tank: When u got your hardskape idea set your substrate no matter will be ADA full substrate system or just plain gravel Think for the waterflow not to disturbe the substrate in therms ruining you skape especially for shallow tank where outflow pipe is close to the substrate. Also the substrate has to "breathe" some gases are released from it due the organic matter decaing also O2 for plant roots ( think algae hates O2 plant roots and aerobic bacs loved it). So if you build thick substrate mass lets say back corners of you tank I will put some lava rock underneath or large size gravel lets say. In two reasons: The soil will not collapse easily and will Breathe aesier than if is only compact soil. U can use larger powersand which is volcanic rock as well. Lava rock acts as a "house" for the beneficial bacteria as well ( in one of my tanks I used even bio filter media to support the substrate and worked to house bacteria as well) Use support for your substrate or dividers which will help keeping yor skape as it was set not collapsing down ( The green machine has some great article for using support Building up height in Substrate | The Green Machine )
3/ Planting: Choose you plants according the tank, Light and the aquaskape....and of course your personal preference Get a healthy good looking free of visible algae plants. I recon in vitro plants as well couse they are abolutelu algae free like 1-2 grow When planting devide the plants on small individual plantlets that will prevent rotting and give space for the new growth. Do not trimm the green part of the plant prior planting, the plant is already in shock from the root transition to another substrate why to increase the shick even more....just trimm some dead leaves, yellowing parts or every thing which seems unhelthy or impossible to recover after the planting. (some people trimm the hairgrass before even planted which doesnt worked for me ...unfortunately......but I had great results when trimmed just the roots a bit before planting, just to give space for new root growth and is easier for planting) Choose fast growing plans at least one I gave you already the reasons why. Divide Hemiantus Cuba on the smallest plantlets possible and plant them dense for nice carpet....the same for the hair grass. The carpet plants start rotting when planted in a bunch : 1/ no space for the new growth, 2/ flow is minimal on the bottom of your tank so no enough CO2 reaching the leaves of those plants and fast decaying of the old/ dead leaves. They are really favorable from the algae cause the ammonia possibly leach from the substrate.  Plant the stems under angle they will "catch" the substrate better and will not float. 
4/ " To Flood, or not to Flood! That is the question." It is you choice, bere in mind you have to do loads waterchanges when you flood an has Diatoms outbreak around second week, and ammonia outbreak but kick start on your bio filter also. When not it is called Dry Start Method and yeah is for lazy guys like me  just a joke! The plants will grow nicely under the plastic film cover sprayed twice minimum daily for at least a week to 1-2 months. Here you can speed the plants development with adding CO2 without diffuser of course directly in the tank and blast the lights as long as you want. I have done a 12-16 hours photoperiod and you can hear the plans growing blast on CO2 also. When flood after the Dry start will have diatoms outbreak as well, but you will have good rooth development as well as good green plant mass. Do not forget to blast CO2 after the flood the plants used to use atmospheric CO2 so far so will "starve" also can fertilise at that time cause no live stock to produce nutritients.....it all depends on the set up. Aquasoil will keep the plants alive without fertilising but they will show dsome deficiencies after week or so. 
Now is the moment to choose your fert dosing system and ferts mixes, if you havent done it yet. Read well the aricles about PPS Pro/Classic and EI and try to understand how they work what are the advantages and disadvantages of the both. What is suitable with you life style, Are you ready to spend on expensive premixes of ferts of choose more advanced dry salts. Dry salts will make you learn about how the things working , and what is for what how affect your ecosystem and the life in it.
Just be constant of what you doing. And learn and yeah Enjoy of what you doing or just do Pushups when you are frustrated or wherever works for you. I just wish you luck and hope that will help for your new Manzi skape. Nice Manzi BTW


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## Deano3 (27 Nov 2013)

Wow thanks for that lengthy reply clone very helpful and interesting, I like the bit about plant deficiency feeding the algae, also repens are slow growers so wondering what plant to stick on there to see if my higher levels of co2 are working anything fast growing and nice ? Will only need one or so as such small tank might see if can get a donation lol and any nice surface floating plants ? Don't want to block the light that's the only thing 

Had to do water change today after lights went off as working 7-7 till Friday so done water change then dosed with macro , do most people dose micro and macro or make up the solutions them selves ?



Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (27 Nov 2013)

I take water from the tank using a syringe and use that to dissolve the Ei dose on that day in a measuring cup , give it a stir and then I syringe that back Into the tank  


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## Deano3 (28 Nov 2013)

Wats you thoughts for a fast growing plant for my tank to see how it copes and also be good to hide a skimmer if get one also still got brown algae in middle on substrate level and low plants so might need to make a small change but last day at work tomorrow then off for 12 so will hopefully crack this puzzle lol any help or anyone that would like to send me a small amount of a fast growing plant would be brilliant and very helpful

Thanks dean


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (29 Nov 2013)

Hey dean. Tomorrow I'm going to do some trimming I will see what I pull out stem wise. 

I have had no luck really with s repens but the plants I am growing well I will be happy to send you. 

I will send them myself this time.

Did you ever get the bit I sent you? I ask because the Mrs isn't allowed to do post at work any more 

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## Deano3 (29 Nov 2013)

Ali that would be brilliant and very helpful , and no never received it sure they would have mentioned it to her if they picked up on it, just coincidence, yeah mate anything you send me will be great and helpful



Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (29 Nov 2013)

No chance to do any maintenance today mate so it will be done on Sunday I will get anything I have posted on Monday. Your yank is only 20 cm tall is that right? I will get some small cuttings

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## Deano3 (29 Nov 2013)

yes that's right mate 18cm tall, still finding plant deficiency's and not much growth but will get pics tomorrow as off now and have a proper look

Thanks dean


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## Deano3 (1 Dec 2013)

well after 4 days at work and unable to see co2 working etc found yellow/brown algae in on substrate and algae on plants then then found that co2 was hardly on 1 bps seems to have slowed it self down but off for 12 days now so will keep an eye, turned right back up now that's hopefully why not been much growth as co2 been on slow

]









also convinced my lass that if I had larger aquarium would be easier and be beautiful something like a 90cm NA aquarium and she said well if it will be easier and become lovely green its fine lol really like the 90cm NA in black so hopefully soon  on fresh water shrimp says all prices going up jan 1st anyone know why ? also want this tank going first

Thanks dean


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## tim (1 Dec 2013)

Get that 90 ordered before the prices go up mate


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## Deano3 (1 Dec 2013)

why are the prices going up ? also you think my eheim professional would be powerful enough for this tank ? and are there cabinets solid wood ? wouldn't know what colour to get like the black though 

lastly whats the difference between float glass and super clear apart from £100
Thanks dean


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## steveno (1 Dec 2013)

Float glass tends to have a green tiny....


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## steveno (1 Dec 2013)

Tint... Sorry iPhone!


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## tim (1 Dec 2013)

Price increase probably due to overall manufacturing/import costs etc etc how many lph is your ehiem rated, tanks around 200ltrs so 2000ltr ph for 10x flow you can supplement the filter with power heads though mate.


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## Samjpikey (1 Dec 2013)

To be honest if you was to use just normal plain agricultural glass and you get a good enough and clean seal with a 'clear'
silicone , then It doesn't look to bad at all  
Cheers 


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2013)

so you think superclear is the way to go, still just thinking about it but think will get ordered before crimbo as want a great and larger deeper tank, love the shallow tanks but love the deeper tanks as so much can be done with them and so much more scope, ordered eheim skim 350 and arrived today do most people leave on constant or just set on times to work 5 mins daily etc ?

also what's everyone's opinions on colours of the NA aquariums I quite like the gloss black and does anyone know if they are solid wood and not just plywood

Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (2 Dec 2013)

How is the current tank mate ?? 
You should be seeing a lot of new growth everyday really , 
In theory a smaller tank is Easier to maintain , you could almost do 75% daily water changes with no sweat , 
if I was you if crack the current set up you have before spending larger amounts of money on a new scape , my opinion of coarse  
That's what I would do I would master the one you have get that looking healthy learn from that, 
once your able to maintain a healthy set up then that's the time to put the £££ in 
That's my plan anyways 

Cheers 



Sent from my mobile telecommunications device


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2013)

cheers mate and I totally agree if you look on last page I updated yesterday saying have algae but found bps dropped right down so that may be why, I have upped them again now   off for 12 days to keep an eye out now, I know mate just trying so hard just want a stunning tank, the shallow tank looses gas easier I think and just looking to the future as I know I will buy a larger tank eventually and master it all prices going up next year quite a bit  but like you say want to get this one growing crazy first, if you look at the last page vid think my co2 is high enough lol ? thanks for support so far aswel mate

Dean


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## sa80mark (2 Dec 2013)

I definitely think your on the right track now just keep up the water changes and keep pumping that co2 in, algae etc can take a few weeks to turn around so dont get disheartened

With the bigger tank have you thought about going low tech ? Less water changes and as you can see from the likes of Alastair and tom low tech stunners can be achieved

Mark


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## James D (2 Dec 2013)

My Eheim 350 is timed to come on and off with the lights to give a bit of extra flow (and a lovely sparkling surface to look at). It's up to you though, if you need the flow you can leave it on all the time, it can only help if you get it in the right position.


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## kirk (2 Dec 2013)

Interesting. I've gone from a 2 ft deep tank to a 40 cm deep much easier to maintain and I found the cube hard on the back after a hr messing.


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2013)

only thing is I already have plenty of flow but like said before can you not have too much flow ? thanks mark checked ph this morning at 11.00 co2 just comes on and ph 7.9 and at 12.00 6.3 so significant drop might leave eheim on for hours like you say james, no mad rush for larger tanks just panicked as prices going up quite a bit   but suppose plenty other manufactures out there so might wait a little longer and see how this goes, doing water change every other day at 80-90 % and clean glass and rocks and wood while on

Thanks dean


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## darren636 (2 Dec 2013)

Try poseidons palace. Made in the UK to your spec, at a very good price


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (2 Dec 2013)

darren636 said:


> Try poseidons palace. Made in the UK to your spec, at a very good price



He never got back to me, so I bought a 90-P.


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## sa80mark (2 Dec 2013)

Ive got a sneaky suspension hes no longer in business,  I could be completely wrong but that's the rumour


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2013)

like I say just worries me about the price rise as I now know I want a larger tank and nice stand in the near future and don't want to pay an extra £100-200 I want an all in one including tank and stand so think will be NA and they look great, would like to have this tank looking great first just not seeing the growth, I know repens are slow growing but none at all hopefully ali can send me few plants so I can see how they do, would you put the eheim skim rear left near the repens and is it ok if flow very strong ?

Thanks dean


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## Lindy (2 Dec 2013)

Buy the tank now, just don' t set it up.

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## Samjpikey (2 Dec 2013)

The repens in my tank mate grows the quickest by far and I'm always trimming it back . 
Every week I'm topping them . 
They also seem to be fine in strong flow , maybe that's why they grow so quick is because the flow is strongest in that area ,
Cheers 


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Dec 2013)

Have you messaged freshwatershrimp Deano about the prices?  I know they went up last Jan so maybe it hasnt been removed from the website..?


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Dec 2013)

scratch that, just saw the website..


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2013)

Yeah Ian emailed them anyway asking a few questions but no reply back as yet, also I know mate I am not seeing any fast growth even with massive amounts of co2 I am pumping into the tank do t want to add another 12 w bulb as will be too much and already have algae will keep up water changes just so sick as been on for a year or so and always had this problem but been on and off, and I suppose I could buy now and set up next year lol would have to buy new light and filter etc anyway so would have to buy something different every month but try sort this mess out before purchase,

p.s overdosing doesn't cause algae am I right in thinking that's correct ? and you think rear left for position for eheim skim


Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (2 Dec 2013)

Ei dosing is basically overdosing our tanks  

What substrate do you have now dude ?? 


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## clone (3 Dec 2013)

Hey, yes the prices are going up from Jan 1014 and thats because the crysis is just about to hit UK What happened in the rest of the EU last year is just about to come. If you really want a optiwhite or clearglass tank I suggest Aquatic Design Centre just call them and they will give u a quote for your size of tank. The silicone job is awesome judging from what I saw in the shop. If you are really crazy about ADA / NA go for it. I wold go for smaller ADA like 60-p is is tyhe best PRICE for SIZE tank in the TGM shop. Also very close to the golden ratio regarding dimentions of the tank. You have Do Aqua option as well but no optiwhite unfortunately. Hope that will help.


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## steveno (3 Dec 2013)

Would it be wrong of me to suggest twinstar... Cough lol, since getting mine green alage has been a thing of the pass, also all my sterns growth rate seems to have improved.


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## tim (3 Dec 2013)

Hi Deano, have you considered a tmc signature setup, a 3ft tank is nice but so much more work and funds needed to keep it looking good (I have learnt this over the past year with mine lol) good luck with getting this one


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## Deano3 (3 Dec 2013)

well emailed ed and he said they are changes coming to ADA  and I said what changes and this is the reply

Hello, please ignore the website prices and message that it will go up. Since the brand is relatively new the changes happen basically every couple weeks so it was impossible to keep up with the news. Current retail prices are about 20% lower than advertised on our page.
The big changes basically mean that it will only be available as a setup to buy and only grey colour. Setup will include tank, cabinet, lights, light arm and steel pipes. Filter will most likely be sole optional thing. Lights will be LED.

so hopefully not going up 
like I say hopefully ali will send me some plants and get this one sorted first set up my eheim skim 350 and water crystal clear brilliant 

Dean


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Dec 2013)

I'm trimming today if you want some stems and Monte Carlo/elantine deano?


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## Deano3 (4 Dec 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> I'm trimming today if you want some stems and Monte Carlo/elantine deano?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will have anything mate that would be great thanks 


Thanks Dean


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Dec 2013)

pm your addy fella and will send this arvo.


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## Deano3 (5 Dec 2013)

Cheers mate, also had to let everyone know my thoughts on the eheim skim 350 it's cleared the water amazingly and looks so much more pleasing to look at, also maintenance was easier as a lot less white around rim of tank to scrub off, if the white is bad does it mean I have hard water ? Anyway it's on it's lowest setting and gives some excellent flow across the back of tank, it literally just fits in my tank it sits on the substrate and on high setting sucks in to much water along with air but fine on lowest setting here are some pics , also just leaving on all the time on low setting


















So all in all very impressed with my crystal clear water 


Thanks Dean


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## Iain Sutherland (5 Dec 2013)

Make sure you rinse the sponge every few days while you have a lot of scum mate. 


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## aliclarke86 (5 Dec 2013)

Hey dean. I didn't really end up with any plants that where ....well.....alive after I have neglected my tank for the last month but I did have some rotala rotundifolia that I stuck in the post for you. Sorry it wasn't more mate

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## Deano3 (5 Dec 2013)

will do iain thanks mate, will do every other day on water change

and every little helps ali just hope start seeing some more growth over next few days really cannot stop think about a bigger better tank lol  but not yet but ssoooonnn lets get this baby growing properly first

thanks dean


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## aliclarke86 (5 Dec 2013)

MTS is setting in 

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## Iain Sutherland (5 Dec 2013)

There is enough Monte Carlo in the post to carpet the tank in a few weeks dean, it will be a bit of a canary as it grows low tech well, if it doesn't take then the method really needs looking at.
As your still not seeing growth while pumping in co2 there must be something intrinsically wrong here... Are you getting a good solid mist into the tank from the inline diffuser?  The water should look cloudy if the diffuser after the canister.

Pm fella



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## sanj (5 Dec 2013)

> Hey, yes the prices are going up from Jan 1014 and thats because the crysis is just about to hit UK


 
Eh? what crisis do you mean is about to hit the UK? As far as I can tell we seem to be in a better position than we have in the last 5 years... or have I completely misunderstood? 

I have an NA (120cm) on order with Freshwatershrimp, I have a TMC(60cm) and they are decent setups, but NA seems to be all round a bit better. Nice to see we can get away from MDF cabinets!


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## Deano3 (5 Dec 2013)

do you know if cabinets are solid wood sanj?

cheers dean


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## sanj (6 Dec 2013)

I believe they are plywood, not the hardest or most fancy of wood, but much better resistance to potential water damage.


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## Samjpikey (6 Dec 2013)

Is there any more Monte Carlo available for sharing ??  

Also I work in the glazing industry and there is normally a price rise every year but that's mainly related to inflation , but as far as I know the industry right now is booming, so I believe there isn't going to be any kind of price rise in glazing in the near future , So unless this hobby is struggling and that's were the rises are coming from I don't know . 
Cheers 


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## sanj (6 Dec 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> Is there any more Monte Carlo available for sharing ??


 
Hehe I was thinking the same...

Iain, did you say this can also grow without co2?


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## Samjpikey (6 Dec 2013)

I would like to start a low tech nano soon , this would be ideal if it will grow in such conditions  



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## Iain Sutherland (6 Dec 2013)

Carpets in my shrimp tank in the sig.
Grows just as well just not as quick. Have had to trim it 3 times since planting it maybe 5? Months ago. 


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## Samjpikey (6 Dec 2013)

Ahh sounds good  

I will be on search for some of this to also go into my planned shrimp scape . 

Cheers 


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## Deano3 (7 Dec 2013)

Well thanks to the kind members on this forum Ali and Iain I have filled my tank with there cuttings lol filled foreground with Monte Carlo and have some lovely deep red plants at the right ( terrible with names going to have to start writing them down) also Ali provided the tall plants across the back and trying to surround my skimmer so a HUGE thanks to you to and everyone else so far let's just hope stays alive and of not move forward but touch wood


























Thanks again hope I can help you out one day soon




Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (7 Dec 2013)

Looks really good mate  hope it stays like that now!! I think the mass of plants should help a lot. I had trouble in my first tank when I only had a few plants but really filled the tank and everything took off! 

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## Samjpikey (7 Dec 2013)

That looks so much better now , 
I hope you get the tank looking how you've alwAys wanted it to  

I work on plant health rather then mass . 
Cheers 



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## darren636 (7 Dec 2013)

That's a great improvement, well done guys


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## tim (7 Dec 2013)

Looks the biz Deano, will fill in nicely now in a few weeks


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## Deano3 (7 Dec 2013)

Well bloody hope so lol will keep close eye over next few days as off till thursday so keep my water change every other day and doseing micro and macro and keep high co2 , still looking forward to buy in you natural aquario aquarium hopefully a 90 centimetre one in black buy think I will wait until next year as there is no rush before that I will get this 1 florishing keep veyone posted and any other advice welcome so far only have 1 12w bulb running and doing micro one day and macro thr next and doing 90% water  change every other day cleaning rocks with a toothbrush and cleaning glass and once a week cleaning the filter lily pipes and the filter sponges thanks a lot so far for your help it's very appreciated

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (7 Dec 2013)

Can you add more light if necessary?
If you are at home & can turn up the light, you should see pearling within 30 mins .


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## Deano3 (7 Dec 2013)

I could add another bulb but will see what happens tomorrow don't want algae or melt happening sure had pearling today but hard to tell as done water change and always lots of air bubbles then, but see tomorrow then if needed could add one on monday

cheers mate


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## aliclarke86 (10 Dec 2013)

How's it looking now mate? Still top notch I hope 

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## Nathaniel Whiteside (10 Dec 2013)

If your wanting to see it pearl;
Lift the lily output out of the water, so it's causing surface agitation. This should ram the Water column with oxygen, then the plants will take it up to maximum dissolved oxygen levels, and from there on the plants will pearl, due to the water column being unable to take up any more.

I'm sure my moss and java fern narrow are pearling like beasts now I've lifted the out pipe well above the water surface, but slowed the flow, so there's no actual bubbles going under the surface.


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## Deano3 (11 Dec 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> How's it looking now mate? Still top notch I hope
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk



Hi ali mate still looking ok had couple buts if bba small clumps of black hair on red plants so dosed with liquid carbon still there but will keep dosing back at work tomorrow so back to water change after lights off not the best but all I can do, not really seeing any growth but still waiting, co2 still on high bps and seeing slight darkening or algae on leaves of some plants and a little loss of colour but may be settleing in so wait see if doesn't take off soon going to have to try something else, maybe a different diffuser or position in filyer outlet but at the min I have spraybar so should be good and huge filter, maybe try a lilky outlet and out inket and outlet in same side but opposite ends of tank like most people do seemed to have better plant helth when had the o-bubble on lol but lookimg ok for the minute so we will see how it goes, been making a tank cabinet for a while so can hide the co2 and filter underneath so done bits and bobs in the today but stil not finished

Thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (11 Dec 2013)

Are you dosing Ei ?? 


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## Deano3 (12 Dec 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> Are you dosing Ei ??
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile telecommunications device


Yeah dosing micro one day and macro the next 


Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (16 Dec 2013)

How's it looking mate ??


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## Deano3 (17 Dec 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> How's it looking mate ??
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile telecommunications device



Hollow mate, not to bad but still slow growth the tall plants at the back have grown to surface the ones ali kindly provided but carpet not changed much I don't think also found a small amount of melt in centre of tank infront of the dirty repens think flow might not be the best here as that's only explanation thinking of getting a normal Lilly pipe outlet to try we're the inlet is now and put inlet on same side but at the back and hopefully provide stronger flow, it's a huge filter so should be strong enough, also keep finding the bps have slowed down by my last day at work the drop checker was only green and bubbles were slowed down, I marked the turning handle on needle vale and its goin further and further anti clockwise nathaniel said night be running out , also going to check for leaks later, couple places with black hair algae think its bga so going to keep dosing liquid carbon on it, apart from that and the reds going green in places no to bad but still think something is t right not sure if flow or diffuser, 

















Some plants have dirty algae on cannot really get off with pulling out think this might be flow but the eheim skim provides loads here
























There all from few days ago and you can see some melt on end pics but might be because bps slowed over 4 days working, will upload a pic when light comes on this morning

Cheers dean


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## Deano3 (17 Dec 2013)

Just taken 












I think what happens is most of co2 bubbles flow to en of spray bar and looks more at left hand side of tank and seems better growth 


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (17 Dec 2013)

Have you tried the defused in the inlet of the filter? You may get a few burps but the co2 should be dissolved pretty much completely so should disperse well. 

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## Deano3 (17 Dec 2013)

aliclarke86 said:


> Have you tried the defused in the inlet of the filter? You may get a few burps but the co2 should be dissolved pretty much completely so should disperse well.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk



What so put the diffuser into the pipes on the inlet instead ? No havnt but going to buy some more filter piping tomorro for when for into cabinet so will do that then, good idea Ali also going to clean out diffuser anyone know how ? Think solution of bleach and water if I remember but cannot remember concentration 




Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (17 Dec 2013)

Hi Dean, happy Christmas, Tom Barr (plaintbrain) suggest a PH drop of 1.2- 1.4 for good results.
He uses a trickle tower filter so has high oxygen levels & can safely keep fish at these high C02 levels, but as you don't have fish, aim for a 1.4 PH drop & add as much light as you can.
Sounds like your diffuser - atomiser is well clogged ....


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## Deano3 (18 Dec 2013)

foxfish said:


> can safely keep fish at these high C02 levels, but as you don't have fish, aim for a 1.4 PH drop & add as much light as you can. Sounds like your diffuser - atomiser is well clogged ....


 
I was getting good ph drop, I am going to clean out atomiser tomorrow do I remove it and put in bleach and water solution ?

thanks dean


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## aliclarke86 (18 Dec 2013)

Yeah so the bubbles go through the filter. I have always run an in tank diffuser directly into the inlet pipe for my filter. I have never used an inline device so can't help on the cleaning 

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## Samjpikey (18 Dec 2013)

If you have a syringe just push some bleach through a few times , flowed by some dechlorinator , blast with water ... Job done  


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## steveno (18 Dec 2013)

I use an inline, and have install both after filter on outlet pipe, but currently have installed before filter on intake pipe which I actually prefer as I fewer bubbles which made water look less clear. (but now i got an twinstar installed so getting a cloud of bubbles any way lol...)Either way I found using inline much better that glass diffuser. I also prefer the extra room in my tank. IMO with a shallow tank  a inline would be better than than glass diffuse as would provide more time for co2 to dissolve.


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## steveno (18 Dec 2013)

Sorry I must have been still half asleep when I wrote the above, your using an inline, i would defo. recommend putting it infront of filter, Co2 will get fully disovled and much clearer water.


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## Deano3 (18 Dec 2013)

thanks steveo and going to do that today mate, also thanks sam do I push bleach into were the co2 enters the atomiser and not were water flows through and then push trough couple times and then use pure seachem prime and pump that through couple times and that should clean it pretty well ?

thanks dean


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## Samjpikey (18 Dec 2013)

Sound fine dude , I do exactly that (through the co2 entry), I do this every 3-4 weeks to keep it clear as poss , or when the co2 mist starts to increase its bubble size. 
Take a few mins , I also hold my hand over one side of the atomiser , pour some salt In, fill it with a little water and give that a shake , that seems to clean down through wear the water runs through , as this gets dirty just like your filter hoses  
Cheers 


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## Samjpikey (18 Dec 2013)

Sound fine dude , I do exactly that (through the co2 entry), I do this every 3-4 weeks to keep it clear as poss , or when the co2 mist starts to increase its bubble size. 
Take a few mins , I also hold my hand over one side of the atomiser , pour some salt In, fill it with a little water and give that a shake , that seems to clean down through wear the water runs through , as this gets dirty just like your filter hoses  
Cheers 


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## Deano3 (18 Dec 2013)

Cheers will do that later today very helpful yet again mate 


Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (19 Dec 2013)

Well today done maintenance and for the diffuser onto the inlet side , you can hear air in the filter sometimes and when ever you tip filter to side loads or large bubbles come out so think the co2 is building up will it be ok ? And filter be ok also it does look much better I give you that cannot hardly see any bubbles it's deceiving as keep thinking isn't working but yellow drop checker so must be working, fire extinguisher still not empty still on the 50 so still not sure why have to keep turning up  the bps no leaks as checked hope the reg ok and not faulty or animating hope fe just getting empty

Here are some pics 









Some melt occurring on few pics below























Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (19 Dec 2013)

I didn't want to say to much but, I am not a fan of filtering Co2.. it work for a few folk but many more have issues!
It depends on the flow through the filter & what is inside, this really effects the rate that the filter can dissolve the gas, sometimes it works sometimes is does not!
The main issue comes from high rates of injection, with low lighting & low rates od Co2 injection, this system normally works ok but, turn up the gas & you get burbs!

I would of thought your big filter would coupe OK, there  might be some air in there too & it might clear?

Dean, please keep a check on your PH to see if you are getting a drop of over one point.


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## Deano3 (19 Dec 2013)

ok mate will get ph readings tomorrow, the burping is annoying but see if makes a difference, wonder why no growth it must be flow as getting algae and melt in certain places  but will post my readings tomorrow mate

cheers dean


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## Samjpikey (20 Dec 2013)

What's the substrate your using ? Looks kinda powdery and compact :/ 


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

Samjpikey said:


> What's the substrate your using ? Looks kinda powdery and compact :/
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile telecommunications device


Yeah it is mate it's Ada powder Amazonia I think, very thin and muddy but that shouldn't stop or slow plant growth too much should it ? Plants can grow without substrate , unless the roots are suffocating and cannot get nutrients or anything 

Dean


Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (20 Dec 2013)

Ahh ok well I've never used the powder type so I wasn't sure what it looked like , must be fine if that's the norm  


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Dec 2013)

Deano3 said:


> Yeah it is mate it's Ada powder Amazonia I think, very thin and muddy but that shouldn't stop or slow plant growth too much should it ? Plants can grow without substrate , unless the roots are suffocating and cannot get nutrients or anything
> 
> Dean
> 
> ...



Think it's ADA Africana Dean. It's too light to be Amazonia 

Plant healths Looking better all the Time.


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## sanj (20 Dec 2013)

foxfish said:


> The main issue comes from high rates of injection, with low lighting & low rates od Co2 injection, this system normally works ok but, turn up the gas & you get burbs!


 
Filter farts?

I have never used an inline diffuser, always through the filter outlet via a reactor. Occasionally I would hear Budgie noises ( yes as in the bird), but not usually.

I always got the impression people had more issues with inline diffusers, it kind of put me off, so I cant say much on that side.


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

Cheers nathaniel not sure myself though still something not right, starting to think might be flow but will see how the atomiser on inlet works, just want some proper growth and lush green plants 



Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (20 Dec 2013)

I find it hard to believe it is flow as this 10 x thing is relatively new & I grew plants for 20 years with very low flow.
Two main criteria are required ... light & Co2.... everything else we discus  like substrate, ferts & water changes are second to light & Co2.
Fitting the atomiser in front of the filter wont increase the amount of Co2 in the water, in fact it wont be as effective as a mist! (might look better though)

Test you PH get a 1.4 drop before light & that will at least prove you have enough Co2 going in, then you only are left with light.

I guess the other option is, Dean is laughing his socks off at all of us & really he has a 6' tank brisling with plants


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## darren636 (20 Dec 2013)

foxfish said:


> I find it hard to believe it is flow as this 10 x thing is relatively new & I grew plants for 20 years with very low flow.
> Two main criteria are required ... light & Co2.... everything else we discus like substrate, ferts & water changes are second to light & Co2.
> Fitting the atomiser in front of the filter wont increase the amount of Co2 in the water, in fact it wont be as effective as a mist! (might look better though)
> 
> ...


 what is specifically good about a 1.4 drop?


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

darren636 said:


> what is specifically good about a 1.4 drop?


 Well ment to have a drop of at least 1 so 1.4 is brilliant before lights on 


Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

foxfish said:


> I find it hard to believe it is flow as this 10 x thing is relatively new & I grew plants for 20 years with very low flow.
> Two main criteria are required ... light & Co2.... everything else we discus  like substrate, ferts & water changes are second to light & Co2.
> Fitting the atomiser in front of the filter wont increase the amount of Co2 in the water, in fact it wont be as effective as a mist! (might look better though)
> 
> ...



Laughed there mate wish I had a tank like that but I really don't, I am sure doing everything right I am water change to 80% every other day etc but plants continue to have a dirty look about them and getting melt , when I so maintenance I drain water clean rocks and wood and glass and squeeze out filter sponges once a week along with the other media in tank water I drained and clean Lilly pipes, the holes I drilled in the spray bar arnt all straight but straight enough, wanting bigger tank soon so might invest in led light unit but nothing crazy expensive, will post ph reading ASAP as still at work, sure last week I posted as was getting excellent drop above 1




Thanks Dean


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## foxfish (20 Dec 2013)

Darren, a 1.4 drop in PH is not necessarily a magic number but it is something I read by Tom Barr. 
He  aims for a 1.2-1.4 drop in PH to obtain the amazing tanks he keeps.
The problem is  that this sort of drop would very often kill any fish present unless you really have very high oxygen levels as well & to be honest I would not recommend this to anyone who keeps fish.
Apart from being a world leading expert on keeping plants Tom also uses a sump & trickle tower & those two things allow him to maintain those sort of levels.


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

Deano with your water change do you drain water then clean plants rocks glass etc or clean plants rocks glass then change water ?


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

tim said:


> Deano with your water change do you drain water then clean plants rocks glass etc or clean plants rocks glass then change water ?


Normally I drain water below rocks then give quick scrub am as for plants don't really clean plants as rips them out, any recommendations are great ?

Ph readings today bear in mind did water change last night

6.30 am-7.6
10.50am-7.9
11.50am-6.1




Thanks Dean


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

Ok I use a wide head paintbrush artist type to brush over rocks and plant leaves in my nanos even use them to clen glass around substrate silicone etc then change water or the crap stays in the tank mate, just gotta be gentle in smaller tanks.


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

tim said:


> Ok I use a wide head paintbrush artist type to brush over rocks and plant leaves in my nanos even use them to clen glass around substrate silicone etc then change water or the crap stays in the tank mate, just gotta be gentle in smaller tanks.


Brilliant will try that will have to get a very soft brush and brush over the leaves and rocks before draining water u usually use a tooth brush for rocks and silicone but will do that tomorrow water change mate  


Thanks Dean


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

Tesco do packs of artists brushes cheap mate.


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

Will have a look when get a chance mate hopefully over crimbo period artist brushes so not paint brushes as such a proper soft small brush I need , must takes ages to do all leaves etc


Thanks Dean


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

I'll take a pic back in a mo


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

Like this one good for brushing plants rocks and glass near substrate, does take a while nanos are a pita tbh but I love em  do a bit as often as you can then follow it up with your water change.


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## greenink (20 Dec 2013)

Think scale of PH drop depends on hardness of water. 1 unit of PH drop in RO is not much CO2 compared to 1 unit in London Tap. 

(Could be totally wrong about this!)


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2013)

thanks for that tim and taking time to take a pic, that brush I perfect manageable size so will defo get one, finish work sunday so might go have a look Monday thanks mate, and I know this sounds stupid but what is meant by RO water and I know PH its always higher when done water change but at work tomorrow will check at 6.30am in morning then check at 5.30pm tomorrow night best can do  until finish on Sunday anyway.

If I am getting a good PH drop what you think should be my next cause of action then you think the light might be too powerful for tank unless its very high and get no growth, just don't understand how pumping in huge amounts of co2 doesn't make amazing growth with the high light, I thought higher more powerful light meant adding more co2 to feed the plants and give the energy to grow

thanks dean


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## tim (20 Dec 2013)

Hey mate ro water reverse osmosis everything removed pure water I think  I do know in soft water you need to drop the ph more (at least 1 point) harder water half or so but then mr Barr drops his ph by 1.4 which as fox fish stated would kill most fish/shrimp etc but mr Barr runs very good surface agitation + high lighting which will max oxygenation of the water column keeping livestock tip top.


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## Lindy (21 Dec 2013)

It is ADA Africana. I have it and my Montecarlo is doing well

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## Deano3 (24 Dec 2013)

Hellow everybody can I firstly wish everyone a happy chrismas and a happy new year and wish you all the best 

And now my tank, still not got a soft brush as shops crazy  and seeing more melt , sick now as seems to never stop lol moved the light up and think going to put the diffuser on the outlet side, getting good ph readings but still melt

Thanks dean


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## tim (24 Dec 2013)

Happy Christmas Deano, just looking at your pics and you seem to have the ehiem blowing along the back wall this could be disrupting flow from your spray bar pushing co2 away from the plants, is the melt mostly around or near the skimmer ? How high do you have your light now you've raised it ?


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## Deano3 (26 Dec 2013)

hi tim sorry for late reply, the back is only place to fot skimmer really and no the melt is in middle loads of it now even though light raised will measure the height tomorrow been busy few days so back to normality now and hopefully get this on the right track

Thanks dean


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## tim (26 Dec 2013)

Hey mate hope you had a good one, can't you have the flow from the skim turned low and facing forwards (front of the tank) ? No disruption to the spraybar then, hope you get this sorted mate.


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## foxfish (27 Dec 2013)

What is the light anyway?
I seem to remember that even before you filled the tank with water, when you tried a DSM, the plants did not grow very well?
If you are getting a 1.4 PH drop then you should be able to use a very bright light without problems.


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## Deano3 (27 Dec 2013)

Thanks Dean


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## Deano3 (27 Dec 2013)

Hi there the light is a hagen glo unit it has 1 x 24w bulb in a life glo bulb, yeah that's the main problem never had decent growth at all just melt and yes I have always had decent PH readings just carried out water change and taking readings will post later, this tank has totally done my head in but I must be doing something wrong somewhere, I cleaned rocks and also glass then drained water squeezed filter sponges (pics above of the media in the filter) I had to swap the atomiser back onto the outlet as no difference and came home twice to found air lock in filter and not working at all think due to such high bps, couple questions after water change should I dose micro and macro or just the one due on that day ? also do you dose daily or do you have a 1 day break like the instructions recommend ? also cannot fit the skim facing forward as spray bar along length of back and so shallow unable to put below it. just took a quick video of flow from spray bar give me 5 and will upload, and getting melt with light is 48cm from surface



sorry about quality
Thanks dean


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## tim (27 Dec 2013)

Hi mate, have a look at the chart in this thread 
Dymax Tropical 36 watt | Page 4 | UK Aquatic Plant Society without a par meter it's a good chart for a rough guide, looking at the chart with the height of the tank included I would say your in the low light zone, you may be one of the only forum members that needs to add more light.


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## foxfish (27 Dec 2013)

I agree its got to be worth trying anyway!


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## Deano3 (27 Dec 2013)

So you think maybe add another bulb but will this not just create more melt and more problems ? Everyone usually says remove a bulb to make easier with the lower light, can low light make plants melt ? I do have another bulb  I could add  also any help on the other questions i asked would be great 

Thanks dean


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## foxfish (27 Dec 2013)

There is nothing usual about your tank mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it has to be worth trying more light.
Try adding a bit of powered fertilizer or fish food or whatever so you can to check the flow is getting to the plants ok.


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## tim (27 Dec 2013)

Hi Deano, after water change I dose whichever I should on that day, I tend not to take a rest day on my nano tanks due to always doing 3 water changes a week (at least), plants will also die from lack of light and it manifests itself in the same way as co2 starvation ie melt not often a hobbyist has too little light but it is possible, you seem to have a good ph drop, yellow dc an overpowered filter through a spraybar and you still seem to have no growth, in my grasslands nano roughly the same dimensions as your tank even though algae proliferated in the end through a few issues I still had growth from the plants, personally I would try more light just to see if the plants will grow.


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## Deano3 (28 Dec 2013)

Going to do that mate will add another bulb when finish work tonight see what happens thanks must be hard work on a large tank doing daily water changes seems to take long enough on mine lol only 1 25L barrel but after cleaning etc still takes 45 mins or so , still require a soft brush was in sainsburys yesterday totally forgot 


Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (12 Jan 2014)

How's it?

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## Deano3 (14 Jan 2014)

changed my tank over other day to my new cabinet I built much bigger task than I thought took around 5 hours but looks ten times better as cannot see FE or filter anymore so really happy with that also the flow is very powerful and have the outlet along side the skim both facing same direction tool a short vid of the flow right after switched on so can see the mucky water flowing around the tank, couldn't reseat putting the red plants in as love them and still alive lol also planted some long grass around rocks and the long plant in my precious tank cannot remember the name of also tried diffuser and flow seems to be good also I think In tank diffusers look better than inline atomiser set at around 3 BPS or so, here is some pics














































Quite like the layout even though chucked together in 10 mins or so lol kept it low and hooping works well and get nice carpet without melt and good growth, think was hard to get spray at angles correctly in such a shallow tank and also found enheim skim and rock etc caused huge barriers for flow so hope works as this tanks last chance, getting some monte carlo ordered now to fill in the scape as I say looks much better not entirely happy with layout but just want growth that's all

Thanks dean


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## Deano3 (14 Jan 2014)

today after work water cleared obviously very bare and need some plant mass in there getting 3 pots monte carlo ordered

Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (14 Jan 2014)

Rotala rotundifolia? Looks good mate  defiantly looks nicer on the cabinet 

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## Deano3 (14 Jan 2014)

don't think I have that plant in there mate, the plants you gave me are in there but have algae on the leaves but the leaves are very small hopefully get some shrimp in there in few weeks to eat it off lol the cabinet is nothing special but better then looking at the fe and filter plus bairn started wanting to touch the fe etc so needed it moved, just hope the strong flow and seems better flow helps things and also the intank diffuser

Dean


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## Deano3 (14 Jan 2014)

can only find green machine that does monte carlo Tropica 1-2-Grow Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' - buy tropical aquarium plants online | The Green Machine

also you recommend any other plants ?

Dean


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## aliclarke86 (14 Jan 2014)

I gave you r. rotundifolia is just needs some growing to get the nice pink long leaves they where young stems  I looks nice mate it made the tank look a bit out of place on the large surface and I like the rustic look you have going on 

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## aliclarke86 (14 Jan 2014)

Aqua essentials have mc too

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## Bradleyh91 (14 Jan 2014)

Lovely cabinet mate! Tanks looking lovely and clear too! Hope you have more success this time!!


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## Samjpikey (14 Jan 2014)

Looksvery nice , I like the rustic look as mentioned ^^^ , 
It looks like you may have recycled a pallet ?
What happened to the last scape? 
Hope this goes well for you  


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## Deano3 (15 Jan 2014)

Melted mate hoping have more success with the improved flow ( very strong I think) ordered 3 pots of tropica Monte Carlo, and yes few pallets from work and couple other pieces and clashed it together with 3 coats of matt varnish good enough I suppose, carried out a 80% water change yesterday along with wiping the glass and cleaning the rocks then dosed micro, just making sure doing nothing wrong lol I found some algae on the plants Ali give me a month ago but think its from previous scape, don't want many variety or of plants so only adding the Monte Carlo just hope dont get melt, daily I check drop checker and temp and dose 7.5ml micro/macro 


Thanks Dean


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## darren636 (15 Jan 2014)

My Monte Carlo was suffering from ' too much flow' syndrome. The 1-2 grow plants are great- zero melt but they do need really good co2 distribution.  I guess 20x flow was too much for it in mine


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## Deano3 (15 Jan 2014)

Keep getting a sort of scorched substrate were its turn orange as if burnt any ideas why ? 









Also some algae on grass etc








An not much colour in the reds 







Thanks Dean


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## darren636 (15 Jan 2014)

Diatoms


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## Deano3 (15 Jan 2014)

Is that what the burnt looking substrate is ?

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## Deano3 (15 Jan 2014)

Also I have my bps very high how do some people manage to have 1 bps etc obviously the plan is ti get plants matured and started growing then lift light and drop co2 is that correct

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (18 Jan 2014)

ok planted the monte carlo 2 days ago but really don't think going to work and I am now pretty sure its the substrate everything is dusty including the plants and the substrate is like a thick clay in places and if disturbed at all makes the aquarium dusty for a day, decided now think I have had enough and going to purchase a new aquarium and new substrate etc always wished I purchased a deeper aquarium anyway as so limited with hardscape and fauna in the shallow, was originally waning a 90cm NA but as just put up cabinet etc think might just get a deeper 60cm maybe the 60-p I know this has been discussed 100 times but thoughts on 60-p vrs same dimension do-aqua ? its £35 cheaper for a start lol glass thickness the same ? also you think will be ok to drain water from my aquarium and grow monte carlo out of water until new aquarium arrives etc ? and opinions on substrate would be great defiantly not ada powder lol

any help of thoughts would be great and thanks for reading so far
Dean


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## aliclarke86 (18 Jan 2014)

I think its only a case of option white glass between them?

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## darren636 (18 Jan 2014)

I love a shallow tank....


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## foxfish (18 Jan 2014)

Dean doesn't!


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## Deano3 (18 Jan 2014)

cheers ali so ada meant to be a little clearer ? you think worth the extra £35

you think sounds like a good idea fox fish ? and agree no its substrate at fault but don't want to just change that want a deeper tank and no I have had enough of my shallow lol

Thanks


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## Samjpikey (18 Jan 2014)

Sorry to hear you've had enough. , 
I've always had my suspicions about the substrate as Ive mentioned in earlier posts but I am far no expert.
If your anywhere near me I will have your shallow tank.  
Save the  35 sheets and that pays for the aqua soil  
Cheers 


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## Deano3 (18 Jan 2014)

cheers mate (the quote button doesn't seem to work for me) and I know a few people said it but I actually believe you were correct now, and I suppose you right that could pay for substrate what substrate you recommend and what you think about draining tank and growing until new tank arrives could that work ?


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## foxfish (19 Jan 2014)

I think you should do whatever you like mate, this is meant to be fun, you have tried & tried  to save your little tank! I would look at a 100l ish tank & use ADA substrate.
Two T 5s, a up inline & 10kg bottle of gas!


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## Wallace (19 Jan 2014)

If I were you I'd sell the 60f, and with the money from that I'd buy a cheap 60cm tank. 

Then buy some cat litter or similar, and go back to basics. I tried full on hi tec too soon in my planted tank career and it didn't go too well. Now I'm going with fairly easy to grow plants and liquid carbon and Ei and am getting good results. 

Why spend a lot of money on another ADA tank when it could all go horribly wrong again?


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## Ian Holdich (19 Jan 2014)

I'm glad you're not giving up, and you'll find new challenges in a larger tank. I agree with Sam, if you want and ada or do aqua, then get the do aqua, and then you can get some more stuff with the money saved. 

Good luck with it, and i can't wait to see it started, as I'm sure it'll be a success.


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## kirk (19 Jan 2014)

Really like your tank mate. I now fancy a 60 f too .


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2014)

Thanks guys how many litres is the 60p ? I want a larger tank in future maybe a 90cm NA but that's a massive outlay of cash but I already have all the equipment cabinet ect that's the only thing, like Ian says might go for the do aqua one and that will pay for substrate and some new rocks and go for a iwagumi layout again, sticking with high tech as spent fortune on equipment and going to make it work, thanks Ian and no not giving up I will never give up I really love admiring your and other people scapes and want people to come in my house and do the same. Always thought next tank would be a lot larger but like I say already have all the equipment for a 60cm so think will stick with that for now until it works, my filter etc should still be strong enough and I hate that I cannot have long stem plants in the shallow as only 13cm or so to play with so they don't go lovely red at top or anything, you think use the inline atomiser then Sam ? And Ada substrate but not the powder

Also anyone know if I will be able to drain water and save the plants growing then out of water like dry start until new equipment or will it damage as been in water for few days already ?






Thanks Dean


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## tim (19 Jan 2014)

Hi Deano, I think the 60p is 60 liters mate. If you intend to move up to a 90cm I'd definitely get the do aqua, tanks don't hold there resale value that well. Anyway good luck with it mate look forward to your new journal.


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2014)

cannot make mind up mate but a whole new setup will be a huge outlay for stand and tank and lights etc that the only thing can get 60cm do aqua 36cm deep for £116 then substrate so say £150 my filter should still be strong enough I image ? and would you renew the sponge pads ? still busy looking at people 60p aquariums lol

does anyone know id can drain water and save the monte carlo currently in tank just grow it out of water (like dry start)
Dean


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## tim (19 Jan 2014)

Should be possible mate, drain water to below substrate you may need to spray regularly at first cling film the tank to keep humidity up as long a photoperiod as you want should be possible too maybe drop foxfish a pm he's very good with emersed growing.


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## foxfish (19 Jan 2014)

I don't know if you have a locale face book eBay? there are just loads of tanks for sale on the Guernsey FB eBay page!
I have seen lots of tanks for just a few £s, I would not worry about opti glass or ADA mate just get a basic bigger tank.


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## Samjpikey (19 Jan 2014)

I agree with foxfish in a way although it is nice to have good quality stuff and you know that a decent tank would last years . 

If you have got the spare monies then why not , life's about having good things . 

But if you haven't then I would just keep on the look out for a bargain of a tank and sell the one you have to fund it without spending any extra dosh. 

Because at the end of the day it's inside of the tank is what really counts . 
 
Hope this helps 
Cheers 


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2014)

thanks guys I have money aside for tank so do aqua or ada which ever looks best really but do aqua is £35 cheaper so might go for that aslong as glass isn't too different, and agree with Sam you go to work to have nice things so why not buy nice things lol going to use landscaping rock from AE, I want fish in this scape within a month or so  , also foxfish you think the emersed growth will be ok till tank arrives and I get ordered, also you think 1 bag of ada substrate will be enough and what one you recommend

thanks dean


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## Andy Thurston (19 Jan 2014)

Keep your eyes open dean im sure alistair said aqua ones new range looked very smart and reasonably priced too
I dont want to offend you but I think your nuts buying an ADA tank and aquasoil considering whats happened with the other one. A higher plant mass will be much more beneficial than optiwhite glass.
My 35l was a nightmare with algae for a good 6 months when it had hardly any plants in then i added a few more pots and all my algae went away within 2 weeks. Im not a believer but perhaps twinstar could help, you've tried everything else. 
Whatever you decide good luck


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2014)

not necessarily getting ADA most likely do-aqua I think mate what substrate would you recommend instead if ADA aqua soil ? also I will be stocking heavily from the offset looking forward to it mate will also be doing a journal and getting everyones advice , going t drain water tonight and hope plants survive emersed for a week or so

Thanks dean


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## Rob P (19 Jan 2014)

I've just bought some columbo florabase black for my next tank Dean, not used yet but looks great. Seems to be as well reviewed as tmc nutrasoil etc


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## aliclarke86 (19 Jan 2014)

I have always had good results with tmc nutrasoil mate. I think the only place you will notice the difference really as where the glass joins. I have one optiwhite tank and 6 standard glass tanks...(not all running  ) and really i cant see much difference you still get a great viewing experience. do! Aqua are nice rimless bracless tanks 

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## Andy Thurston (19 Jan 2014)

I'm tight and use john innes 3  capped with sand, especially seeing how well it worked in dans 180, if i had harder tap water id use pond soil and osmacote or other root ferts. 
Im convinced these potting soils produce co2 at substrate level which helps with carpet plants in the early days but don't have enough knowledge to back it up, i'm also convinced thar the DSM helps the substrate mature, to some degree, without affecting water quality but again not enough knowledge to back it up
I could just have got lucky a couple of times and my theories are just rubbish but it worked and Im on my third attempt now


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## foxfish (19 Jan 2014)

Dean, I know you want to save your plants but honestly mate, I don't think anyone will be upset if you dump the ones you have left.
You have plenty of knowledge yourself, you have lots of options... just go for what you feel is right. 
At the end of the day it is your money & your tank.


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## Andy Thurston (19 Jan 2014)

It wont hurt to try grow it while your waiting for new tank to arrive even if you sling it in the bin when the new one arrives


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2014)

been looking at reviews etc and think this stuff looks good and cheaper than other substrates and 1 bag should do
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/caribsea-ecocomplete-9kg-p-190.html
also will try save plants of works great if not no worries going to start looking at plant choices etc and wil require few other bits and bobs maybe new filter wool as manky now been in there ages I seen a plant earlier a long grass like plant called bla???? something or other cannot remember name

Thanks dean


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## aliclarke86 (19 Jan 2014)

Blyxa Japonica?

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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

that's  the one lol really like that looks great think will bring that into scape somehow behind rocks


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## foxfish (20 Jan 2014)

Ecocomplete does not live up to its name, it will supply trace but does not supply N,P or K .


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## darren636 (20 Jan 2014)

I had eco complete. I wad young. I was impressionable. It was crap.


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

ok thanks guys guess I wont go for that then lol just need a decent 9L or so sack of substrate good for plants, sachem fluorite one any good ? or nutribase


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## darren636 (20 Jan 2014)

Deano3 said:


> ok thanks guys guess I wont go for that then lol just need a decent 9L or so sack of substrate good for plants, sachem fluorite one any good ?


how about aqua soil on ebay?  Alastair. Is using some on his 1300 litre.

Right now I have Colombo nutribase topped with florabase. Working well


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## aliclarke86 (20 Jan 2014)

I have this in my lowtech shrimp tank and also A record of my low tech experiment | UK Aquatic Plant Society look here

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## James D (20 Jan 2014)

Hope you don't mind me chiming in here Dean, I would go for tried and tested ADA Amazonia myself, it might be a tenner or so more but there's no doubt it works. I've got a 60P and one big bag is all you need.

When I bought my tank I was looking at the TMC signature but I would have had to drive to Birmingham so I decided to have a look at the DoAquas (as I live close to the Green Machine), they are good looking tanks, I wouldn't worry about the quality at all. In the end though I got the 60-P as it was only £129 in the shop (as opposed to £150ish online).


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

AQUA GRO PLANT SUBSTRATE AQUARIUM FISH TANK SOIL SHRIMP SAND PLANTS FERTILISER | eBay that must be the stuff Darren and ali mean ? seems to have good reviews
agree with you James its the postage etc what costs that's why will go with do aqua as the rest difference will buy substrate  I used ADA aqua soil powder last time and turned into clay lol very thin and dusy so just a little disheartened with it but sure the Africana normal soil is great stuff, the aqua gro on the link above is very cheap might email Alistair see how its going for him

Thanks again dean


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## aliclarke86 (20 Jan 2014)

I don't think he used it in the end mate. He may have a cupboard full of the stuff 

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## Rob P (20 Jan 2014)

Dean, I also looked at that aquasoil. I think Alistair said he'd a mate who used it and it was actually quite mushy (probably not what you want lol).

I've gone through the same debate over and over on what to use, at the end of the day you have to get what makes you confident that you can try to do well in it. We know plants can be grown in inert substrate if dosing properly, but most folk use a planting substrate.

I always think of my days fitting TV aerials and delivering electrical goods, people would spend £000's on latest TV's etc and when we installed it the picture would be crap and we'd say you could do with a new aerial that would cost them £60/£70, the amount of people who declined through not wanting to spend the extra, amazing... lol . Liken that to the aquarium, tanks cost, filters cost, lighting costs, etc etc so when a substrate is a £10 cheaper than a proven well reviewed one you may leave yourself wondering about it which isn't a good place to be. I spunked £100 on 30L of the columbo stuff which is big gulp, but in the scheme of things i'm confident it will look how I want and provide everything I need to do what I want. The extra money is worth the peace of mind to me.

This is, of course, all just my novice opinion on these matters


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## foxfish (20 Jan 2014)

ADA Amazonia is so well tried & tested, I would go for that myself.


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## James D (20 Jan 2014)

Whereabouts in the country are you anyway Dean?


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

my quote button does nothing anyone else have this problem ? I live near Newcastle mate


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## James D (20 Jan 2014)

Ah OK, just wondering if you were near any ADA / Do!aqua stockists...


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## Rob P (20 Jan 2014)

Deano3 said:


> my quote button does nothing anyone else have this problem ? I live near Newcastle mate


 
Nope  lol


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Jan 2014)

foxfish said:


> ADA Amazonia is so well tried & tested, I would go for that myself.


 
+1, normal and powder in my 60, not mushy in the slightest.


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

going to get the normal ada aqua soil not sure weather to get African or Amazonia or Malaya will look at the colours shortly,went terrible in my tank as seen in pics but hopefully better luck this time  also going to get 5kg more mini landscaping rock
been looking at 60cm scapes all day lol love the simplicity of this one
"Serenity Peak" Final Tank Shot | UK Aquatic Plant Society
but I want a few plant varietys  love iains aswel stunning colours and I cannot make mind up to go high tech or have just 2 species of plant and dose liquid carbon and EI I want fast growth so most likely high, also here is my filter media as starting a fresh would you change it for anything different of has tubes then blue sponge then balls and white cloth/sponge lol will post underneath and also the light unit is a Hagen glo unit it's 2 year old and got second hand would you bother changing light bulbs or not ?


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

Thanks Dean


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## Samjpikey (20 Jan 2014)

That's hell of a lot more media then I have in my aquamanta efx 400 lol ...., 
I think I have one sponge and a handful of Alfa grog and 4 scrubbies ...
Go for Ada Amazonia mate to be honest you'll probably be covering it all with plants /carpet plants etc unless you use sand for the foreground . 
I use it and I won't use any other substrate again  


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Jan 2014)

Yeah, I'd strip out at least half that media, you won't need it dean.



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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

lol  belive it or not it was about half that but just cleaned out old cabinet drawers and emptied back in to get it out the way so will empty back out when I get tank, is that fine thugh don't need any other type of media or anything in baskets ?
filter says max 700lph that should do for 60p shouldn't it ? (will also have skim 350 for flow)and thanks sam will go for that Ada Amazonia,only want 2 plant types or 3 want a carpet some blyxa japonica and not sure would you go with co2 ?


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Jan 2014)

Blyxa is a co2 whore, not sure how it does with LC but low tech it's a bit gangly and sorry for itself.
Co2 all the way, makes carpets easier and blyxa lush. 



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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Blyxa is a co2 whore, not sure how it does with LC but low tech it's a bit gangly and sorry for itself.
> Co2 all the way, makes carpets easier and blyxa lush.
> 
> 
> ...


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## greenink (20 Jan 2014)

Deano3 said:


> not necessarily getting ADA most likely do-aqua I think mate what substrate would you recommend instead if ADA aqua soil ?


 

Ignore the terrible scaping, but this is 57 days from a nearly bare tank in inert molar clay (cheaper than chips) with EI dosing and a few plant granules under the surface. Really don't think substrate makes that much difference. Much better to spend money on more plants at the outset and ramming the thing full of so much CO2 you can hardly believe it.



I'd also go for a nicely siliconed tank. After you've had something so beautifully made, a horrid silicone seam is just nasty. And it will bug you permanently!


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

thanks mate I know keep looking at 60p and thinking to myself should I go ADA or Do!aqua lol still not 100% but the Do!aqua ones look great to be honest on the few pics iv seen, going to take time with next scape as want it right, anyone know the difference from the up aqua inline diffuser to the super diffuser is that meant to be a better model ?

Dean


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## Samjpikey (20 Jan 2014)

I think inline atomizers are the king of their kind and the only competitor is a reactor ( or of corse directly into the filter ) , 
Try a reactor matey 

Inlines are fool proof IMO . But I think most people get great results from all kinds of different diffuser/atomizers and reactors , I'd say choose what you think you should and work it from there .  


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## greenink (20 Jan 2014)

I've had best results with (a) AM1000 reactor - with custom filling as in my journal, and (b) sera diffuser - the plastic one you can't break! Would recommend either. Inline diffuser ones need too much cleaning for my taste, given hassle of getting them out.


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## Deano3 (20 Jan 2014)

I have an up aqua inline like this
UP Inline CO2 Atomizer 12/16mm (D-508-12)

but then seen these on someone's journal is it a newer better updated model

UP Inline Small Super CO2 Atomizer 12/16mm (D-519-12-S)

just curious
Dean

and p.s will be using an inline diffuser


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## Lindy (21 Jan 2014)

Re the choice between ada amazonia and africana, I have both and much prefer the colour of the africana. The only time I got the dusty mud was when I did a full rescape with a steep bank and the dust seeped through to the front and lowest point while filling. I found topping it with some spare substrate worked fine. I move plants around and find if I leave the filter running while I do it any dust in the water clears quickly. I have a carpeting plant growing at the front and its doing well. I think africana does compact a bit so it can be quite difficult to take plants out that have rooted well. In contrast the amazonia is harder but I've not rescaped the tank its in since putting it in. I can move plants about with no problems.
If reusing africana I'd  syphon it out of the tank into a sieve so you are not crushing it and then dry it in the oven spread out on an oven tray.


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## foxfish (21 Jan 2014)

LOL ...we are all trying to help but, talk about confusing the chap, there must be 10 different opinions to every question.... poor old Dean, all he wants is a simple easy to grow tank!


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## aliclarke86 (21 Jan 2014)

I think a deeper tank will help. I'm not all that keen on this 60 f I think not should have a larger surface area if its as short as it is

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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2014)

still compiling my list of what is required  still a hell of a lot cheaper than getting 90cm setup and like the dimensions of the 60p,few questions still

1.would you advise buying new bulbs as most likely 2-3yr old or does it not matter as long as on ? and when planted how high above tank you recommend starting at (2x24w High Output)

2.does seachem prime go off as mine smells eggy lol

3.going to purchase one of these lily's to match my other should create good flow hopefully gUSH oPipe Mini Outlet Lily Pipe 13mm I have noticed lots of people put right side by side and not one at front and one at back obviously so flow goes right back to when started that sound correct ?

4.what does everyone think I should start with inline atomiser or in-tank diffuser and when planted I will start with high BPS

5,want a lighter background what clour do most people use is it white or a cloudy colour and whats it called on ebay again ?

going to start new brand new journal when decided what need ordered and play about with hardscape until find exactly what I want also founf this and it looks excellent and 2m long so ordering one of them mine is rubbish frem ebay and need to take off both ends of pipe as very short 

Borneowild Clean Kit-Pipe Brush - gUSH Lily Pipes - Aquarium Glassware - Tools & Glassware

thanks again for all your opinions and help
Dean


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## aliclarke86 (21 Jan 2014)

What did you find???? 

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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2014)

you mean the brush looks awesome doesn't it


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## aliclarke86 (21 Jan 2014)

Mine is terrible too mate, its supposed to be flexible but I can't get it to go round bends in glasswear 

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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2014)

lol exactly same as mine have to hold with finger tips as so short thin and flimsy so defiantly ordering one of them beasts look very strong and good brushes  anyway any help with questions from anyone would be great


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## aliclarke86 (21 Jan 2014)

I think you answered the flow question perfectly. Bulbs are probably not running like new, if you have the funds I would grab some new ones maybe try a couple different ones so as not to over do it. I was running one HO 6500k and one red bulb on my 2 x t5 light and got great results and it gave the red plants a real nice colour. Never used inline device (have one in my cabinet but never got round to installing) and finally have a look at some glass frosting vinyl oh and no idea about the prime 

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## James D (22 Jan 2014)

> 3.going to purchase one of these lily's to match my other should create good flow hopefully gUSH oPipe Mini Outlet Lily Pipe 13mm I have noticed lots of people put right side by side and not one at front and one at back obviously so flow goes right back to when started that sound correct ?


 
I must of missed where you said but are you running two filters? When I used to I had them on opposite corners (leftside back, rightside front) which seemed to create a nice circular flow.



> .what does everyone think I should start with inline atomiser or in-tank diffuser and when planted I will start with high BPS


 
I've been using an in line atomizer (this one I think), I just swapped it over this week so it's before the filter rather than after. I haven't noticed any problems in my filter yet but my tank looks much better as it isn't full of bubbles, it's too soon to say if it's any good for my plants yet though, I haven't got my drop checker set up at the moment and I never test me water.



> 5,want a lighter background what clour do most people use is it white or a cloudy colour and whats it called on ebay again ?


 
I tried a few different backgrounds and couldn't decide whether I wanted a light or dark one so I didn't want to stick anything on my tank permanantly. Luckily we have all sorts of plastic and plastic parts where I work so I cut a bit of flexible black PVC to the size of my tank and can attach it with some little u-shaped plastic extrusions - it works a treat the only problem is I end up putting it on and taking it off several times a week. I haven't tried it with white but I was thinking of it, if it works ok I can get you a couple of pieces/colours and you can try it yourself, there's loads of the stuff lying about here!


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## Rob P (22 Jan 2014)

Deano3 said:


> you mean the brush looks awesome doesn't it


 
Looks like the JBL Cleany, got one recently and used it 1st time last week. SO much easier than threading gardening wire down the pipes then pulling a bit of rag through LOL


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## Deano3 (22 Jan 2014)

Cheers James and rob, just 1 eheim filter on this tank mate has 700lph turnover so should be ok, also last time I had my atomiser before free the filter filled with air bubbles an kept burping so will have to fit after filter of go with inline,and I think frosted looks good but want a lighter background this this any help will be great mate

Any other opinions on questions welcome and if I get new bulbs exactly what should I buy its a Hagen  glo light unit requires 2x24w hight I output bulbs ?



Thanks Dean


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## aliclarke86 (22 Jan 2014)

As far as tubes go you should be able to put anything of the correct size in. Im  currently have a 14w Sylvania 3400k tube and one 24w 10000k tube running in my 2 x 24w unit on this tank 




Please excuse the mess 
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## tim (22 Jan 2014)

Hi Deano, you don't need to buy new bulbs if your old ones are still working IMO I'd get the tank up running and growing before replacing them. As for backgrounds you can use card from a stationery store to try a few different colours, permanent backgrounds are hard to remove once the tanks full, with your atomiser it may be worth having a spare so you can swap them I between cleans, I will have some blyxa japonica for you to try drop me a pm when your ready for it as Iain stated it loves co2.


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## Deano3 (22 Jan 2014)

tim said:


> Hi Deano, you don't need to buy new bulbs if your old ones are still working IMO I'd get the tank up running and growing before replacing them. As for backgrounds you can use card from a stationery store to try a few different colours, permanent backgrounds are hard to remove once the tanks full, with your atomiser it may be worth having a spare so you can swap them I between cleans, I will have some blyxa japonica for you to try drop me a pm when your ready for it as Iain stated it loves co2.


 
Brilliant tim thanks a lot, it never seizes to amaze me how generous and helpful the people of this forum really are  

good idea about the card there is a hobby and craft store at the retail its huge so will get some different ones from there thanks for that and I think that might be good idea getting a spare atomiser to swap in-between cleans there is a new model so might go for one of them but ill wait for that I think, want to get tank etc ordered tonight I think

cheers dean


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## Deano3 (22 Jan 2014)

do we get any discount from green machine ?


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## aliclarke86 (22 Jan 2014)

Nope  they don't sponsor the site anymore either

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## Deano3 (22 Jan 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> Nope  they don't sponsor the site anymore either
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


 
worth asking cheers mate


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## kirk (23 Jan 2014)

Id start with the tubes around a ft above the tank. As that's where I end up with our 2 x 24w over the 80x40x40  for 5 Hrs a day.


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## darren636 (23 Jan 2014)

aliclarke86 said:


> I think a deeper tank will help. I'm not all that keen on this 60 f I think not should have a larger surface area if its as short as it is
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


 Wouldn't a deeper tank make the surface area even worse?


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## aliclarke86 (23 Jan 2014)

darren636 said:


> Wouldn't a deeper tank make the surface area even worse?


Yeah your right

Ignored my drunken rambling... 

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## Deano3 (23 Jan 2014)

Hi everyone just letting you know will start new journal soon but letting you know what's happening I ordered a 60p last night and 9l Amazonia soil I looked for hours at Ada vs do!aqua and I think the side of do aqua draw my eye as greener not sure if seeing stunning tanks on here daily but I see a difference anyway this will be my only tank this year so thought would treat myself lol also need info on how to stop substrate sliding back as want a steep ridge on rear and what can I use to pack the bottom instead of wasting loads of substrate




Thanks Dean


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## James D (23 Jan 2014)

Nice one Dean, hope it works for you this time!

I used a couple of layers of this stuff (you can probably find it cheaper) under my rocks to protect the glass bottom of my tank and to get a bit of height, you could use gravel inside a pair of tights to stop it mixing or even just rocks under the substrate though I suppose.  If you slope up your soil you can use plastic insert to stop it sliding, I cut up a plastic tub to get mine. It shows you about half way down this page.


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## darren636 (23 Jan 2014)

So, its like your 60 f - but twice as deep?


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## Lindy (23 Jan 2014)

I used lava rock and substrate supports made from ikea food storage boxes to keep the steep bank. I do have to move substrate back up now and again as the bloomin shrimp work really hard to move it all down.


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## aliclarke86 (23 Jan 2014)

I cut up old plant pots to make supports. The ones you get plants in when you buy them from the nursery

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