# LFS Display Help!



## DuncanL (16 Jan 2013)

Hello plant gurus!

I work in a local fish shop, and have recently set up a TMC Signature planted tank. I run the marine section and Hi Tech planted tanks are fairly new to me.

The specs are as follows - TMC Signature 60x45x30, with V2 Powerbox 200 Filter, AquaBeam 1000HD Tile, Pressurised CO2 through ceramic diffuser on solonoid, AquaGro Nutrasoil substrate (2" at front, 4" at back)

I have been dosing a little EasyCarbo and the TMC liquid fertiliser as directed. The drop checker is showing a healthy green colour.

I have gone for an Iwagumi style aquascape, with Tropica's Hemianthus calitrichoides at the front and Echinodorus tenellus at the back. I started by doing a 50% water change ever day for the first week or so, then twice weekly. For the first 2 weeks the plants were doing great and growing like the clappers, with almost no gaps in the HC, but over the last week some brown algae has started to grow on the leaves and substrate. The growth also seems to have slowed a bit. Ive kept the filter spotless.

I've previously kept the above plants successfully with the same lighting, but I cant help feeling i'm missing something this time. Any ideas guys?
Duncan


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## DuncanL (16 Jan 2013)

Also, the tank is currently unheated as no fish yet!


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## ghostsword (16 Jan 2013)

Can you get hold of a par meter? 

If so, see how much light you putting in.. 

What substrate are you using? Also I am not familiar with the TMC ferts, so I cannot say if it has enough nutrients or not, but I would think that maybe not..  

Dose EI, or something like ELOS Phase2, you need nutrients on the tank for the plants to grow, otherwise algae will take over.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (16 Jan 2013)

Have you cranked up the gas since you started? will be wanting more due to larger plant mass.

Don't be scared of bordering on lime/ yellow without any fish.


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## DuncanL (16 Jan 2013)

Thanks guys. We have a PAR meter but it's on loan at the moment. I'll check it when we get it back.

I hadn't actually thought about increasing the gas/ferts. For example, if there is 5X as much HC as when I started, i'd need  roughly 5X the ferts/gas?

Substrate is the TMC NutriSoil stuff.


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## ceg4048 (16 Jan 2013)

Hello,
		 No there is not a linear relationship between mass and nutrient uptake requirement, but more plants definitely need more of everything, especially CO2. In any case more nutrition always results better growth rates and in healthier plants. There should be no limits set on the CO2 injection rate if there are no fish present. The only thing that should limit the amount of gas you inject right now should be cost of gas refill.

Cheers,


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## DuncanL (16 Jan 2013)

Thanks mate. It now looks a bit fizzier.

Not testing water is a new concept to me and hard for me to get my head around!

I'll let you know how it gets on,
Duncan


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (16 Jan 2013)

Nice one.


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## ceg4048 (16 Jan 2013)

DuncanL said:


> Not testing water is a new concept to me and hard for me to get my head around!


If you are as busy as the staff at most other LFS then it's a certainty that you will easily recover from this trauma with little or no damage to the cerebral cortex.

Cheers,


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## Mitch (16 Jan 2013)

im not convinced tmc nutrafeed (fert) is that good, im having very little results with it and seeing lots of potassium deficiencies in some plants. I would switch to EI if i were you


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## ghostsword (16 Jan 2013)

You cannot wrong with EI..


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## nayr88 (16 Jan 2013)

Mitch said:


> im not convinced tmc nutrafeed (fert) is that good, im having very little results with it and seeing lots of potassium deficiencies in some plants. I would switch to EI if i were you



When dealing with an LFS it's harder than just creating the tank how you would, putting it on display at an attempt to sell more products, some of which you did not bother to use in your tank.

It's about showing what you can do with the fertilisers, soil and kit available to you within that store. 

I hear what you are saying though but it's a tough job when you are using a supplier they want to see you push there product and portray it a certain way. Clearly this is a TMC display, so you must work around this fact, and do the best you can with what you have. 

Unless the OP can mix up an EI batch call it there own brand name and start selling It and using it in the tank?


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## George Farmer (17 Jan 2013)

Hi Duncan,

Are you dosing TMC NutraFeed? This is almost identical to TPN+, so should be ample nutrients, especially if dosed in sufficient qtys. I would dose 5ml per day and change 50% water at least twice per week. This should see off the algae and any nutrient deficiencies, as long as your CO2 levels and distribution are appropriate. As Clive suggests, I would suspect the main culprit being CO2 deficiency/poor distribution.

For the record I've had excellent results with the TMC NutraSoil and TMC NutraFeed combination. Here's a few examples (all 240 litre, 15ml TMC liquid per day, 50% WC per week). The first is an inert substrate.


jonny smith makeover by George Farmer, on Flickr


jungle1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


jungle2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## DuncanL (17 Jan 2013)

You are right, if this was my tank at home I would definitely use EI, but as i'm displaying products that are for sale in the shop, it would be rather pointless on this one.

George, the above tanks are awesome. And thanks for the boost in confidence regarding the AquaGro stuff. It seems to be looking better already. I'll post up a photo later.


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## nayr88 (17 Jan 2013)

There really now examples George. We all know how well there lights perform so nice to see the ferts coming along and the substrate. 

What's the response to date with planted tanks in your LFS Duncan?


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## DuncanL (17 Jan 2013)

We already have a fairly large tropical section but we haven't really done much with planted tanks. I thought a few nice displays would get people hooked!


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## George Farmer (17 Jan 2013)

DuncanL said:


> We already have a fairly large tropical section but we haven't really done much with planted tanks. I thought a few nice displays would get people hooked!


Give it time, Duncan. 

If I were the manager of the shop I would put up a sign next to the planted display tank. It would show the name of the guy who set it up and maintains it, maybe with a profile photo.  Then when you see a customer looking at the tank you can hopefully engage in conversation with them, and they'll know you're the right man to talk to.  What newcomers need to know is that it's easier than ever and you stock the necessary products, and can give the right advice - in-person, over the phone etc. Come across as approachable as possible. Oh, and obviously let them know about UKAPS, if you haven't already. 

Have you seen the printable leaflets we have? - Resources | UK Aquatic Plant Society

Getting new/old fishkeepers into planted tanks and aquascaping in stores is a no-brainer and should be relatively easy with a nice display tank, you just can't rely on the tank itself to do the selling... 

Sorry for the rambling but it's a subject close to my heart. 

Cheers,
George


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## DuncanL (17 Jan 2013)

Thanks George. I really appreciate the advice! Also, your obviously in the wrong trade! Ha


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## nayr88 (17 Jan 2013)

When are we going to see some pics! Where is the store ?


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## DuncanL (17 Jan 2013)

We are in the greater Manchester area. I'll hopefully get some pics up this afternoon.


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## ghostsword (17 Jan 2013)

If you only have to use TMC products, then you got to work with it..  add more, prune more, and increase the co2, after all you got no fish there..  

Also a airstone at night, or increase water movement helps a lot also..


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## DuncanL (22 Jan 2013)

Thanks for all your help guys. 

I've upped the co2 and ferts and we are still having a real problem with brown slimy algae. It seems to be getting worse despite a 90% WC and is now pearling more than the plants. 

Any other ideas?


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## George Farmer (22 Jan 2013)

Does is smell? Could be cyanobacateria.


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## nayr88 (22 Jan 2013)

I get this mainly on wood when I start a new tank. Amano shrimp take care of it...aslong as it is the same stuff. 

Can we see a pic please.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Jan 2013)

DuncanL said:


> Thanks for all your help guys.
> 
> I've upped the co2 and ferts and we are still having a real problem with brown slimy algae. It seems to be getting worse despite a 90% WC and is now pearling more than the plants.
> 
> Any other ideas?



Sounds like a form of diatom algae to me. I get it on new setups. It'll eventually go. 

I know what you mean though, its horrible and grows extremely quick. Almost back again overnight.

Cut the light back a bit, see if that has an effect.

Cheers,


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## ceg4048 (22 Jan 2013)

I agree with Nate. If you have those tiles running at 100% then you are asking for trouble. If you have a dimming controller then try knocking it back to 20% or less for a while.

Cheers,


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