# The Root Among The Rocks



## Deano3 (20 Oct 2021)

Hi everyone firstly hope you are all well.

well  am finally doing my rescape after over a year with last scape  so its a long time coming. Not sure how to place pictures n order so i will explain what i did then add images at end.

firstly i partially drained the tank left filter running and removed majority ofthe plants. hence the bucket of buceaphlandra.(will be reusing a lot of my plants)
i thin removed hardscape an left tank to clear abit as was very cloudy.
drained even more then spent hours an hours trying to catch shrimp much more than i imagined so next time will put a trap out days before.
i then set filter up on large blue container and added a few plants and put all livestock in there.
once all out i used a small sweeping shovel to get out the lavarock and aquasoil.
i then kept filling tank and rinsing the glass best i could and cleaned so looked like new. That took a day.
Day 2 i added some of the lavarock an aquasoil into lidl fruit bags and added to tank for some height.(ideal at 49p for 2)
i then added fresh aquasoil and had a play with hardscape. quite happy with final layout so far using bog wood 2 lovely large peices and frodostone.(still jave a lot of large stones left but keep for another day)

and thats it so far, i will be ordering plants today and planting friday as busy tomorro any recomendations etc welcome also have a few questions,
will my plants be ok in a bucket as havnt got in the filter runnig bucket however i could add ino there ?

will it be ok to add my shrimp etcstraght into the tak as carriying out large water changes daily.

thanks and looking forward to sharing my journal Dean


----------



## Djoko Sauza (20 Oct 2021)

That hardscape!! Which version did you settle with in the end?


----------



## MrClockOff (20 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> will it be ok to add my shrimp etcstraght into the tak as carriying out large water changes daily.


I’m interested in the answer too!

Great hardscape by the way. Looking forward to seeing it planted 🌱


----------



## Deano3 (20 Oct 2021)

sorry i was rushed we uploading earlier i settles on that one ten i will add decor gravel around the stones i have tried to stick to rule of thirds and get the points etc in golden ratio in butby no means is it spectacular but i love the wood, i didt even know wht i was going for just had a play and came up with this i quite like the scape cetral as was going to do a triangle coposition agin but happy with this.

any recomendations for plants as after some small crypts etc whats the smallest ? also going for sull carpet this time.

than dean


----------



## MrClockOff (20 Oct 2021)

Those two little stones looking very symmetric  to me but otherwise I’m loving your work 👍


----------



## Deano3 (20 Oct 2021)

What about that 🤔


----------



## Tim Lee (20 Oct 2021)

Looks fantastic, almost a shame to cover with plants!


----------



## shangman (20 Oct 2021)

A bucket of buce, what a dream!

Looks fantastic, can't wait to see it planted up


----------



## Garuf (20 Oct 2021)

How to reset a tank
					

Resetting a tank For many folks, this can be a nightmare. A stable matured tank is easy to manage, while fresh setups tend to go through a period of instability; for many folks this has mean algae outbreaks or melting plants, but both these things can be minimized if not completely eliminated if...




					www.2hraquarist.com


----------



## Aqua360 (20 Oct 2021)

Great hardscape, I wouldn't worry about the stones, they'll probably disappear under foliage anyway I'd imagine. 

Re the shrimp, if your tank is planted with dechorinated water matching their usual parameters, should be fine to add them again, only thing to beware of is leaching ammonia from substrate, but arguably the established filter should be able to handle it. 

If in any doubt, move them to a temp set up for sure, with established media/filter.


----------



## MrClockOff (20 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> What about that 🤔


Yes 👏


----------



## Deano3 (20 Oct 2021)

Thanks so much everyone for kind words also thanks garf i have bagged all plants an amazing amount of buce dont want to loose them.

Thanks again everyone lookimg forward to friday to start planting ordered more crypts and other plants


----------



## MrClockOff (20 Oct 2021)

Good luck and looking forward to see it planted 👍


----------



## Djoko Sauza (20 Oct 2021)

By the way, you could definitely get away with a thiner layer of soil at the front, would make your tank look bigger imo 👌


----------



## NatalieHurrell (20 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Day 2 i added some of the lavarock an aquasoil into lidl fruit bags and added to tank for some height.(ideal at 49p for 2)


This made me smile, as I bagged (pun intended) some of these too.  Absolutely loving your hardscape.  That bogwood is amazing.


----------



## Karmicnull (21 Oct 2021)

Thanks for sharing! Loving the hardscape and the detailed approach is really useful for when I do this next year!


----------



## Deano3 (22 Oct 2021)

Used the cigarette filter and glue method yesterday to stick wood and rocks in a few places hopefully doesnt float, think may place rocks ontop just incase 😬.

Will be planting today and getting flooded so will update pictures when done ordered a lot of crypts 😁.

Trying to decide if to put lilly pipes rear right so flow goes behind the stems what you think ? Got the aquario neo jet pipe


----------



## bazz (22 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> ordered a lot of crypts


👍🤪


----------



## Deano3 (22 Oct 2021)

Got planted today however i took motion pictures of the process so only have a few still image's,  gutted as took throught whole process but not to worry 😅attatched loads of buce and and planted the new plants, Added dennerle rio xingo around some rocks seems to go really well woth frodo thanks to ady for helping me with this choice.

Plant list is as follows
New plants are
Monte carlo 8x
Cryptocoryne parva 2x
Cryptocoryne wendtii Green 2x
Cryptocoryne petchii 2x
Staurogyne repens 2x
Rotala hra 2x
Red root floater

Old plants replanted
Huge Cryptocoryne not sure type
Loads of anubias and buce
Trident fern

And a few others but i think looks great  added all my shirmp afterwards so will be carrying out daily water changes for week 1 and i wont add ferts yet is that best ?

Thanks dean


----------



## bazz (23 Oct 2021)

Buce look like they have been established for months.
Cheers!


----------



## Lex_ac.aquarium (23 Oct 2021)

Love the hardscape and the buce is amazing! Looks great


----------



## Garuf (23 Oct 2021)

In a month or two that’s going to be a chuffin’stunner. 
Good luck!


----------



## Deano3 (23 Oct 2021)

Wow


Garuf said:


> In a month or two that’s going to be a chuffin’stunner.
> Good luck!


Wow thanks mate appreciate all the kind comments i really hope it is 🤞


----------



## Ady34 (24 Oct 2021)

Absolutely stunning Dean. 
You’ve done a great job with that. The planting has just added so much and using some existing mature plants has given it a grown in look.
Brilliant.


----------



## Deano3 (24 Oct 2021)

Ady34 said:


> Absolutely stunning Dean.
> You’ve done a great job with that. The planting has just added so much and using some existing mature plants has given it a grown in look.
> Brilliant.


Thanks ady really appreciate that just hope all plants ok 👍 hope all the buce ok being so close to the light, already founf a couple of melted leaves but only a few and they may have been damaged leaves etc.

Not started doing at ferts yet Was going to wait a week or two, what you think ?

Carrying out 80% or so water changes daily for week 1, not much cleaning just large water changes and removing any loose leaves etc.

Thanks 😊


----------



## Ady34 (24 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Not started doing at ferts yet Was going to wait a week or two, what you think ?


there are a lot of mature epiphytes, I’d probably be inclined to fertilise as you were. Your doing large water changes anyway so only a good thing I’d say.


----------



## Deano3 (26 Oct 2021)

Adding ferts now to be safe, doing ok but had a lot of montecarlo meltom the left side as in pics, some doing great maybe a bad batch on that side, you think best to leave it to do its thing for now and see what happens ?

Been removing melting leaves off crypts etc but all in all doing ok 👍

One thing to add is its so nice having the aquario neo lilly pipes as barley never gets air into the oase filter i previously had aquascaper lily pipes with skimmer on inlet side but these ones have it on the outflow so draws no air into the filter and i love it at the moment 😊


----------



## @nano (26 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Adding ferts now to be safe, doing ok but had a lot of montecarlo meltom the left side as in pics, some doing great maybe a bad batch on that side, you think best to leave it to do its thing for now and see what happens ?


I would let it do its thing, especially if you are still doing frequent water changes.


----------



## Deano3 (27 Oct 2021)

Had a absolute nightmare earlier 😫 when doing water change my hardscape fell, added a rock to back and glued in one place but i am gutted as substrate now all over and hadscape in slightly different place and plants where all over, devistated is a understatement 😢,  filled for now as need to go out but tomorro may drop water right down and try my best to fix anyone recommend a glue etc thats better than super glue and filters ? Just worried happens again also got rid of floaters as all the bits of leaves and montecarlo etc always in the red root floaters

Thinking if removing large wood at water change tomorro and glueing better and levelling substrate a bit then putting back in 😔


----------



## Garuf (27 Oct 2021)

I like zip ties and epoxy better than super glue. 
Zip ties are zip ties so it doesn’t matter about the strength of the bond, just how well the rock you used is secured with them. 
Epoxy can fill a gap and make a good bond that can be reinforced with a zip tie. Belt n braces.


----------



## Wolf6 (27 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Had a absolute nightmare earlier 😫 when doing water change my hardscape fell, added a rock to back and glued in one place but i am gutted as substrate now all over and hadscape in slightly different place and plants where all over, devistated is a understatement 😢,  filled for now as need to go out but tomorro may drop water right down and try my best to fix anyone recommend a glue etc thats better than super glue and filters ? Just worried happens again also got rid of floaters as all the bits of leaves and montecarlo etc always in the red root floaters


That sounds like my worst (aquatic) nightmare coming true, hope you can fix it so you feel happy about it again!


----------



## Deano3 (27 Oct 2021)

Hopefully tomorro i will drain down remove the right peice of wood and reglue and maybe cable toe etc then level substrate and refit touch wood all goes well 😳


----------



## Karmicnull (27 Oct 2021)

After a similar collapsing hardscape incident, I used aquarium-friendly silicone sealant last time round. It was way less stressful than superglue and dried solid with plenty of flex. Although it does take 12 hours to dry so you can't be in a hurry.
Edit: Link


----------



## MrClockOff (27 Oct 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Had a absolute nightmare earlier 😫 when doing water change my hardscape fell, added a rock to back and glued in one place but i am gutted as substrate now all over and hadscape in slightly different place and plants where all over, devistated is a understatement 😢,  filled for now as need to go out but tomorro may drop water right down and try my best to fix anyone recommend a glue etc thats better than super glue and filters ? Just worried happens again also got rid of floaters as all the bits of leaves and montecarlo etc always in the red root floaters
> 
> Thinking if removing large wood at water change tomorro and glueing better and levelling substrate a bit then putting back in 😔


I've been in the same position two days ago.. one of my three glued spider wood roots separated from others. Messing with glue, trying not to leave the glue everywhere and monitor plants so they don't dry out.. OMG 🤯 Ended up gluing every finger on both my hands.. and was so angry! I feel your pain..


----------



## bazz (28 Oct 2021)

Good luck mate, chin up!


----------



## Deano3 (28 Oct 2021)

Well removed a lot of plants and the wood then ended up cable tieing rock to rear of wood and reglueing to other rocks, prety impossible to get it in exactly same location so did my best, not as happy as i was origionally think wood closer to front so couldn't get rock on right in so left it out.

Also doesnt look like much monte carlo left but i think needs left to its own devises for a bit now.

Gutted it happened but bothing can be done, hopefully one all fills in will looks good and can he played with a bit then need things to root etc and crypts etc keep floating etc and leaves not facing up so hopefully they start pointing towards light. 

Still a bit cloudy

Dean


----------



## Ady34 (28 Oct 2021)

Nightmare Dean. 
I’m sure when it all grows in you’ll be less upset.
Try planting the crypts on an angle into the substrate rather than straight down, they get more purchase that way and they will straighten themselves out soon enough so don’t worry about that. 
Cheerio,


----------



## Deano3 (28 Oct 2021)

Ady34 said:


> Nightmare Dean.
> I’m sure when it all grows in you’ll be less upset.
> Try planting the crypts on an angle into the substrate rather than straight down, they get more purchase that way and they will straighten themselves out soon enough so don’t worry about that.
> Cheerio,


Thanks mate yeah i was gutted but bothing can be done, be more carefull next time, want to leave for now and hope enough montecarlo in there for now continue carrying out water changes etc and hopefully starts to grow in.

Thanks mate and thanks for tip on crypts


----------



## Wolf6 (28 Oct 2021)

In all fairness I think you managed to repair the damage pretty well! Once plants are grown in you wont even see it


----------



## Deano3 (28 Oct 2021)

Just purchased 2x 5kg Firs extinguishers today for £30 last one lasted 5-6 months 😁 and thanks @Wolf6


----------



## Deano3 (5 Nov 2021)

Update time,  hope everyone is well.

I have been doing daily water changes for week 1 then continued for few days as was findinf dead shrimp unfortunately, been doing every other at the moment  as tanks has settled and shrimp seem fine now, added 1 more pot of montecarlo today and also rotala hra at the back and removed some of the larger crypts i planted.
 Everything else going smoothly really,  still not cleaned inside filter as didnt want to disturb my media but may clean soon as didnt clean for a month or so before i rescaped. i imagine may be bit dirty as had running when was disturbing substrate etc when origionally removed plants.

Think i am starting to see growth on the hra and montecarlo so thats good, still messing with co2 as dont think gassing off over night as still light green any ideas ? 
I cant lift lilly pipe as skimmer on outflow was thinking about making it draw air in over night ? 

Thanks Dean


----------



## Deano3 (15 Nov 2021)

Quick water change today dropped my ADA thermometer and smashed into bits 😡, cant remember how many of these i have broken over the years 😅, thinking about stocking soon cant wait to see a nice shoul off fish in my tank.

The shrimp deaths have stopped and seeing growth in the plants, lost a lot of bucephlandra leaves when first set up anf removed holed leaves hopefully the loss was due to new setup maybe ammonia spike from substrate but hopefully settling now and will all regrow.

Any hints on feeding ottos, i feed red pepper every 4 days or so and feed shrimp there food every few days ?

Thanks dean


----------



## Wolf6 (15 Nov 2021)

They like zucchini/courgette slices and cucumber as well. Something I learned recently is to place it close to the plants/cover so they can dart away if needed. I used to put it on a stick somewhere in the centre of the tank but the ottos rarely visited, mostly shrimp. After reading the tip to place it close to cover they visit it a lot more. I've found they also love certain shrimp lolly sticks (spinach was a favorite).


----------



## Wolf6 (15 Nov 2021)

Also: lovely tank  looks so serene this far!
I broke another glass diffusor last week, I feel your pain.


----------



## Karmicnull (15 Nov 2021)

Also nettles, sweet potatoes and Hikari Algea wafers.  They feed primarily on aufwuchs , so I drop in a couple of dried leaves every couple of weeks that mine like grazing on. (Aufwuchs is the German name for the slimy coating which grows on the leaves of aquatic plants, decomposing leaves, etc.  Aufwuchs is composed mainly of diatom algae but also includes animals such as rotifers, mini crustaceans and protozoa.  And that mix is apparently essential for happy Otos).


----------



## Wookii (15 Nov 2021)

As the other guys have said, my Oto's love cucumber - just be careful how long you leave it in the tank, as it turns to mush after about 48 hours and needs removing just before it reaches that point (though I no longer have to do that in my tank as the snails devour everything in less than 48 hours anyway). I second the Hikari Algae wafers too, mine love those.

Somewhat surprisingly also, my Oto's happily shoal up next to my Habrosus Cory's and willingly chow down on whatever they are eating, including Fluval bug bites, and live BBS and Moina.


----------



## Garuf (15 Nov 2021)

Came to say blanched nettles have been truly destroyed by my otos in the past (and shrimp). 
Brown dropped Oak leaves blanched then when cool left in the window with some aquarium water for a couple of days. Drop them in once a week or so and they go wild for it.


----------



## shangman (15 Nov 2021)

My otos started to ignore the cooked veg once I began to add dried leaves (I add a lot of all sorts, mostly brown). Their 100% favourite is dried green walnut leaves, which get stripped to nothing in 2-3 days and won't go gross like veg does. The shrimp and other catfish really like them too, I wish I'd collected more!


----------



## SRP3006 (15 Nov 2021)

What sort of dried leaves are we talking about? Do you just go out and collect anything? @shangman
Is there a certain rule on what's good and what's not when it comes to fallen leaves?
Sorry to hijack @Deano3 😁
What fish are you planning @Deano3


----------



## shangman (15 Nov 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> What sort of dried leaves are we talking about? Do you just go out and collect anything? @shangman
> Is there a certain rule on what's good and what's not when it comes to fallen leaves?
> Sorry to hijack @Deano3 😁
> What fish are you planning @Deano3


I've got a thread I'm meant to make about this very subject that I've been avoiding cos I've got loads of work on atm 😂 <you can see some discussions about it in the last 2 pages of my journal> there is extra info there with some more links and suggestions. 

Easiest to collect leaves are Oak and beech, one of my favs is magnolia grandiflora (takes a long time to decompose and enjoyed by fish and shrimp alike + looks v tropical) which are dotted about in parks quite often. Best not to use leaves found at the side of the road in case of pollution. The leaves also encourage interesting behaviour that I never saw before I used leaves, they definitely make my fish more bold! You can also try palm leaves if you have them in your garden/a friendly neighbor, they have also done well for me.

The leaves need to have fallen off the tree and ideally be dry, though if it's wet or you can just dry them at home in a flat layer in a warm place. Some people wash or boil their leaves, I personally just chuck them in dry and let them sink over a day or so. I do make sure to wipe off dirt, and don't collect leaves that look damaged or diseased.


----------



## Angus (15 Nov 2021)

Leaves are great at growing bio-films, also cholla wood, seed pods, alder cones, etc.

When collecting leaves i would highly recommend doing it in the woods, as homeowners and the local council spray pesticides absolutely everywhere.


----------



## shangman (15 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> the local council spray pesticides absolutely everywhere.


I wondered about this in regards to parks as we want our botanicals to be as safe as possible, so I just asked my dad who works at a London park as a horticultural manager. He said not to worry about pesticides on your leaves from parks. The pesticides you're thinking of which you wouldn't want in the aquarium are used by farmers, but not in parks where tough plants are usually planted for ease of maintenance. If they do use pesticides they are nontoxic like SB invigorator type stuff, they are very restricted with chemicals allowed because the public use parks. The herbicides they use only on paving, almost always in the spring (not autumn weekend we collect) and very sparingly as they don't have time or money to spray plants. Trees and shrubs have never been sprayed by anything while he's worked there. And if there was anything, you can always just boil the leaves to get rid of anything that sits on the top.


----------



## Angus (15 Nov 2021)

shangman said:


> I wondered about this in regards to parks as we want our botanicals to be as safe as possible, so I just asked my dad who works at a London park as a horticultural manager. He said not to worry about pesticides on your leaves from parks. The pesticides you're thinking of which you wouldn't want in the aquarium are used by farmers, but not in parks where tough plants are usually planted for ease of maintenance. If they do use pesticides they are nontoxic like SB invigorator type stuff, they are very restricted with chemicals allowed because the public use parks. The herbicides they use only on paving, almost always in the spring (not autumn weekend we collect) and very sparingly as they don't have time or money to spray plants. Trees and shrubs have never been sprayed by anything while he's worked there. And if there was anything, you can always just boil the leaves to get rid of anything that sits on the top.


Anything near paths and paving sprayed by the mobile tractor sprayer type with the handheld wand i wouldn't put near my tanks myself, i know about COSHH i have to for my job, regards to spraying trees and shrubs that doesn't happen you are right, but it's often about where you are picking stuff up and what the wind has carried it over previously, would you trust it with hundreds of quids worth of plants and fish?

However i would say many councils are working towards non chemical alternatives for these applications which is great including some london councils.

Another aside i would bring up is the spraying of basal growth on trees for  oak processionary moth which mostly is done with *deltamethrin *which is very harmful to fish gill liver and kidney tissues, you can tell if trees nearby are affected by spot marking with spray paints in colours green and red.



> shangman:
> And if there was anything, you can always just boil the leaves to get rid of anything that sits on the top.


Prolonged exposure to 100c+ will do this for most pesticides indeed.


----------



## shangman (15 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> Anything near paths and paving sprayed by the mobile tractor sprayer type with the handheld wand i wouldn't put near my tanks myself, i know about COSHH i have to for my job, regards to spraying trees and shrubs that doesn't happen you are right, but it's often about where you are picking stuff up and what the wind has carried it over previously, would you trust it with hundreds of quids worth of plants and fish?
> 
> However i would say many councils are working towards non chemical alternatives for these applications which is great including some london councils.
> 
> Another aside i would bring up is the spraying of basal growth on trees for  oak processionary moth which mostly is done with *deltamethrin *which is very harmful to fish gill liver and kidney tissues, you can tell if trees nearby are affected by spot marking with spray paints in colours green and red.


To be honest I actually would pick up leaves from parks and use them in my tanks without much worry, in fact I already have! Often near paths too. They have almost all been London parks though, maybe they are somewhat less liberal with the toxins. In my dad's London park he said they've never done any pesticides or herbicides while he's been there. It's definitely up to people's own indescretion though.

That spray paint Oak tip is great, I will make sure to include that in a section about discretion when collecting and things to look out for, I've read it's quite rare, but always good to know and be aware!


----------



## Deano3 (15 Nov 2021)

Thats totally fine @SRP3006 as i was wondering the exact same thing, i will be nervous about going picking up any old leaves and adding to tank.

Do they have to have fallen and be brown ? And will any tree leaves do ? Also will it add tannins to tank as dont want brown.

Thanks so much for all suggestions i will also be purchasing some Hikari Algae wafers and @SRP3006 you will see later this week 😊 

Lastly @shangman an article on this would he very helpful and appreciated when you have time

Thanks dean


----------



## SRP3006 (16 Nov 2021)

shangman said:


> I've got a thread I'm meant to make about this very subject that I've been avoiding cos I've got loads of work on atm 😂 <you can see some discussions about it in the last 2 pages of my journal> there is extra info there with some more links and suggestions.
> 
> Easiest to collect leaves are Oak and beech, one of my favs is magnolia grandiflora (takes a long time to decompose and enjoyed by fish and shrimp alike + looks v tropical) which are dotted about in parks quite often. Best not to use leaves found at the side of the road in case of pollution. The leaves also encourage interesting behaviour that I never saw before I used leaves, they definitely make my fish more bold! You can also try palm leaves if you have them in your garden/a friendly neighbor, they have also done well for me.
> 
> The leaves need to have fallen off the tree and ideally be dry, though if it's wet or you can just dry them at home in a flat layer in a warm place. Some people wash or boil their leaves, I personally just chuck them in dry and let them sink over a day or so. I do make sure to wipe off dirt, and don't collect leaves that look damaged or diseased.


I'll try adding some leaves when the tank is up and running again. Hopefully the cories and otos will like the extra food/cover it provides


----------



## Deano3 (19 Nov 2021)

Hi everyone quick update  i went to horizon aquatics to purchase my fish, i went for 30 green neons but they seemed very shy and not the best at shouling so went woth 30 rummy nose tetras, they have settled in well, lost 3 on day one not sure if just due to the move etc but rest seem to be doing well.

Also any more info on exactly what leaves i can add for the ottos would be great 😁.
carpet seems to be growing in slowly but surely But struggling in middle where the light isnt the best and in shadow of the wood.

Lastly i need to remove 1 peice of frodo as grey and rest of frodo has a more darker grey/brown colour to it,  not sure as previously been used or what but small one looks odd.

Thanks dean


----------



## SRP3006 (19 Nov 2021)

Looking good @Deano3 , those rummynose tetras looking cracking in the scape. Good choice in my opinion.


----------



## Wookii (19 Nov 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Also any more info on exactly what leaves i can add for the ottos would be great 😁.



Oak and Beech are easy to identify and collect. If you want to buy something off the shelf then Catappa and Mulberry leaves are good options.


----------



## Deano3 (28 Nov 2021)

Quick update time, tank doing ok seem to have some small bunches of bba on rear left corner and rocks went very green think green spot algae so give a good scrub today, to be honest i dont mind green rocks as looks very natural. Any idea why getting green spot algae and bba is it usually co2 related?

Not got round to removing the grey stone yet will do tomorro or this week and add nore small dennerle rio xingo,  why are some of the frodo stones more grey and some a more sandy colour is there just different types and sometimes look slightly different?

I am still doing large waterchange ever 4-5 days , also still struggling to get co2 perfect.  My co2 comes on 4 hours before lights but not fully gassing off on night as baby blue in morning as i seen today when drained the water, could i make co2 go off 2 hours before lights off rather than 1 ?

Also lost around 4-5 rummy nose as 2 died when first put into tank and had 2 jumpers 😔 the rest seem to be doing great.

Lastly i dont think the middle section gets enough light for monte carlo to carpet but hopefully its spreads in from the sides.(in hindsight i think i had main wood further back before the colapse)

Tried attatching pics to show the algae also wanted opinions on the rear right or tank, do i trim the ludwigia palustrus to allow the rotala hra to grow at the back as its blocking the hra at the rear ? And do i up the light by 10 percent?

Any help appreciated. Sorry for long post 😊
Thanks dean


----------



## Karmicnull (29 Nov 2021)

Not answering any of your questions, but the tank looks absolutely lovely!


----------



## Deano3 (24 Dec 2021)

Hi everyone quick christmas update 😊
Tank ticking along nicely, seem to have some bba i think on rocks and plants at the left hand side but not to bad hoping was co2 related and will clear up, any help would be great ? Also green algae on rocks what doesnt bother me to much to he honest.

Had a few jumpers from my rummy nose so will have to top up unfortunately apart from that tank doing well, also have loads of snails again .

Wishing you all a great Christmas and hope to have another great year on this forum. 

Thanks everyone for help and kind words i have received 😊 
Dean


----------



## Tim Harrison (24 Dec 2021)

Really nice work Dean 
Think I must have missed this somehow.


----------



## Deano3 (24 Dec 2021)

Tim Harrison said:


> Really nice work Dean
> Think I must have missed this somehow.


Thanks tim appreciate that 👍  have a great Christmas mate


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (29 Dec 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Tank ticking along nicely, seem to have some bba i think on rocks and plants at the left hand side but not to bad hoping was co2 related and will clear up, any help would be great ? Also green algae on rocks what doesnt bother me to much to he honest.



Hey @Deano3

Saw your green algae on the rocks thread and figured it best to discuss this on your actual journal. Is it green spot algae? Green dust algae? Unsure? How hard is it to remove?

Three questions:

- what info have you got on your source water from the water company in your area? If you can share a link to the water report without revealing your postcode that would help tremendously.

- what are you dosing the water column with and is this the permanent dosing regime for the future?

- what intensity of lighting are you intending to end on with your existing light unit? 50%? 100%?


----------



## Deano3 (29 Dec 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hey @Deano3
> 
> Saw your green algae on the rocks thread and figured it best to discuss this on your actual journal. Is it green spot algae? Green dust algae? Unsure? How hard is it to remove?
> 
> ...


Hi @Geoffrey Rea  thanks for responding 😊,  firstly its hard to scrub off, toothbrush doesnt touch it and wire scrubbing brush does remove it with some hard work but would take a long time.i cannt tell what type of algae it is unfortunately, i dont mind a little bit of algae just dont want to get to much thats all.

Secondly i will add some pictures of my area testing results and some of the rocks and algae on the carpet and repens and small amounds round edge of buce what i think is bba is bba.

Thirdly i am dosing 5ml of seachem prime after water change and i dose 10ml of my AIO fertiliser daily what is made up from dry salts.

Currently i am at 75% light intensity as wanted decent colours from the rotala hra etc, dont want to go to high as dont want to be trimming to often etc i want to end up with good colours on reds and deep greens on carpet etc.

If you need any more information on my salts etc please dont hesitate to ask, also i have added the picture of my putflow thats hits a buce and breaks up the flow think i may have to remove the buce however the new lily pipes from aqua rio go deeper so thinking of upgrading to these plus they have a shrimp safe inlet to help. The right hand side of tank looks great with less algae even though a lot less flow as you can see on the repens on 1st pic.

Thanks dean


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (30 Dec 2021)

You’ve got nice tap water and a bomber of a scape @Deano3 😎



Deano3 said:


> seem to have some bba i think on rocks and plants at the left hand side but not to bad hoping was co2 related and will clear up, any help would be great ? Also green algae on rocks



You’re feeding on your rocks:









You may find this is one potential source of the ‘problem’. Combined with running your Co2 quite high you may also find green dusting on your rock work preferable to BBA perhaps… organics and Co2 abundance.

Your tank is two months old though so early days mate. Things will get shipped in to a new scape when reusing plants from a previous setup. There’s a shot with green spot algae:





Nip affected leaves like that off as soon as you spot them, you can see there’s new growth appearing. Will promote further growth too.



Deano3 said:


> The right hand side of tank looks great with less algae even though a lot less flow as you can see on the repens on 1st pic.



The Co2 blasting towards the left will be placing a higher rate of demand on other nutrients locally. N, P and Co2 in balance. Rooted stuff will get by with substrate availability, your epiphytes may have a harder time.



Deano3 said:


> Currently i am at 75% light intensity as wanted decent colours from the rotala hra etc, dont want to go to high as dont want to be trimming to often etc i want to end up with good colours on reds and deep greens on carpet etc.



If that’s the intensity you intend to stick at then cool. Just bare in mind adjusting your lighting has an overall affect on Co2 and nutrient demand. You don’t really want to be moving the goal posts.


----------



## MichaelJ (30 Dec 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You’ve got nice tap water and a bomber of a scape @Deano3 😎
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that tomato on that fork in pic1?   I have to get in on that - I already do cucumbers, but my shrimps don't seem to care too much....

Cheers,
Michael


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (30 Dec 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Is that tomato on that fork in pic1?   I have to get in on that - I already do cucumbers, but my shrimps don't seem to care too much....
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael



Red pepper I think @MichaelJ


----------



## Deano3 (31 Dec 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You’ve got nice tap water and a bomber of a scape @Deano3 😎
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that @Geoffrey Rea 😊 I have noticed yesterday when having a good look that I am getting some bba around edges of various leaves on the left hand side aswel and on the carpet. I will do a good water change tomorrow and clean pipes etc along with pinching all the leaves with algae etc on there. You think due to this I should adjust lights to a little bit less intensity maybe 65-70 % , I am aware you said not to adjust to much and let the tank get used to a certain intensity.

I will also stop feeding on the rocks however its the rear left rock that gets the worst algae what makes me think it must be co2 related as rocks on the right get less co2 but lot less algae. I also want a deep green for carpet but hopefully once tank matures it will take shape and algae will go on its own.

Any tips on feeding where and how is best to add the red pepper and cucumber etc? (Yes it is red pepper by the way 😁)

Think I will, add more stones to front middle of the scape and must be to dark for the montecarlo to grow. Thanks so much for advice and good to know I have good water and thanks for kind words on the scape, looks better in person I am just terrible at pictures 🤣

Also you think i should move the buce for better flow on the front glass ? And what you think about nerite snails do you use them in your scapes?

Sorry for all questions 😊


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (31 Dec 2021)

Deano3 said:


> I will also stop feeding on the rocks however its the rear left rock that gets the worst algae what makes me think it must be co2 related as rocks on the right get less co2 but lot less algae. I also want a deep green for carpet but hopefully once tank matures it will take shape and algae will go on its own.



Don’t really want to post photos of someone else’s scape on your journal @Deano3 it’s a bit rude, but will have to in order to get the point across.

See below the N, P, Co2 balance/imbalance being proposed below mate. Top left corner where the dosing tubes drop the ferts in:





You can see the reduced growth of L. palustris localised around the dosing zone in the corner:





Colouration and growth speed is reduced right below the dosing tubes. It isn’t scorching causing the dampened colouration, nor is the reduced height of those stems accounted for by short internodes.

The Co2 also comes out of the lily outlet on that corner, so we’re talking differences a few inches apart. Instinct would suggest that being this close to the water column source of N, P and Co2 would result in increased growth. But we see the opposite, potentially due to heightened amounts of some but not the other.

You could fob this theory off. However, consider the effects of Co2 mist increasing N and P demands along the path of the mist. Now where do you see leaf deterioration on the edges of leaves? Is there BBA along the path of flow?

Consider your tank @Deano3 along the path of flow. Localised high Co2. How will you meet N and P? Why the rear left rock where Co2 mist accumulates after two 90 degree turns and downwind of organics breaking down from feeding?

This moves us onto a dosing strategy and what we set our Co2 injection rate at for an easier time in softer water. It also dictates where regular root tab placement will be of more importance.

Got more, but is this making sense?


----------



## Tankless (31 Dec 2021)

Just to be clear, in the example given we would place the root tabs in the spot where the  l.palustris is reduced in height_? _


----------



## Deano3 (1 Jan 2022)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Don’t really want to post photos of someone else’s scape on your journal @Deano3 it’s a bit rude, but will have to in order to get the point across.
> 
> See below the N, P, Co2 balance/imbalance being proposed below mate. Top left corner where the dosing tubes drop the ferts in:
> 
> ...


Yes it is making sense Geoffrey, I have always said I am not the best at certain ferts and what is required and for what purpose but I get the general idea.

 yes your correct the bba is in the flow of the co2 for the most part , it does hit the bucephlanda dead on and that is fine but all the bba is on the left hand side of the tank in the montecarlo carpet and the staurogyne repens and the trident fern , it is just amongst parts of carpet and on the repens on edges and in middle but mainly edges of most leaves.

Think I Will remove the buce for better flow along the front so isn't broken up and tomorrow going to do a large water change and pick leaves and clean pipes etc as also noticed bba on the inlet lily pipe but this information is extremely helpful and most appreciated, I, ove this scape just want it to improve over time and get better colours and become a pleasure to live with. Looking forward to seeing more you have to say.

Thanks again Geoffrey


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (2 Jan 2022)

Tankless said:


> Just to be clear, in the example given we would place the root tabs in the spot where the  l.palustris is reduced in height_? _



You could but you’re fighting the tide. Localised Co2 will be very high around the outlet. Take advantage of the situation like a good aquascaper should, pick a plant that has an affinity for more extreme circumstances. You get rewarded:







Deano3 said:


> I, ove this scape just want it to improve over time and get better colours and become a pleasure to live with.



There’s plenty of folks on here that kindly state their weekly water column dosing regimes. Read around and see what may deliver what you’re looking for.


----------



## Deano3 (3 Jan 2022)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You could but you’re fighting the tide. Localised Co2 will be very high around the outlet. Take advantage of the situation like a good aquascaper should, pick a plant that has an affinity for more extreme circumstances. You get rewarded:
> 
> View attachment 179281
> 
> ...


Thanks Geoffrey,  i did large water change yesterday and must have removed a handfull of leaves that where holed and had algae etc must have been 100 leaves or so to promote new growth.

New session i will trim the repens and replant as getting a little tall , i also need to look up how to remove trident fern leaves a a few of them effected.

Would you then advise me dosing more ferts ? I currently dose 10ml and meant to be only 5ml of my AIO , do you think might be worth a try for now ? (I need to invest in a auto doser as my fish get very skittish when i go to tank before work and lights still off etc thats when i have had them jump)

Also any plant you would recomend for the shaded area at the front middle of the tank or would you beings the stones out more and maybe when trim bucephlandra add them to some rocks just trying to think what would look best any opinions welcome.

Dean


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (5 Jan 2022)

Deano3 said:


> must have removed a handfull of leaves that where holed and had algae etc must have been 100 leaves or so to promote new growth.



When we make changes, like adjusting Co2, older growth gets left behind. If the plant is pouring in effort into newer growth then it really is best to nip those ‘had it’ leaves off. It seems like such a little thing, but all that matter will breakdown in the tank otherwise. It’s an oxygen thief. Those dying leaves are also blocking light and stealing space.



Deano3 said:


> also need to look up how to remove trident fern leaves a a few of them effected.



Finger and thumbnail as close to the rhizome and pinch the affected leaves off. Nothing fancy, you’ll get plenty more in their place. If a bit tough, hold the leaf with one hand and feel your way down with the other and snip it off with spring scissors. You get a lot of decay held inside ferns as well. Pays to give them a rustle when you’re draining the tank at water change each week. It’s already being drained and all that crud goes bye bye for very little effort.



Deano3 said:


> Would you then advise me dosing more ferts ?



The only advice is look around at other folks tanks who are having ‘success’ as defined by your goals. @Roland springs to mind. If memory serves, front loads the water change water with macros and doses low N with micros throughout the week. It’s a smart regime.

See what you can do with your water @Deano3 as it’s soft out of the tap. Here, going through the effort to create RODI water to target 4GH <1KH. That’s because I have to produce RO for the marine, UG tank and terrarium anyway. Otherwise it would be smarter to plant for the extremely hard water for the 1200 here. Doesn’t rain reliably so need a dependable source if you want to go soft.

There’s plants for every occasion and although ‘colourful’ is in trend, it is still a trend. Beautiful green tanks will always be classy. Grow the tank you want to see everyday mate.

If you’re adamant you want colour up, leaning heavily on your soil for N and P, with your soft water, is one way. Water column is K and micros with routine root tab top up’s into the substrate. It’s why they sell rich aquasoil for scaping. For me, relying on N and P mobility from the substrate means a green drop checker - happy fish. You won’t see fish gasping because of Co2 in any of the tanks here, refuse to do it.

That N-P-Co2 balance is driven by Co2 when you lean on soil dependency for N and P… if you tune the Co2 for green on your drop checker, your rooted plants will draw N and P through the roots to meet the demand set by Co2. Think Liebig’s law.

You’re forcing the plant to use a specific nutrient pathway. The water column is a means to an end at this point for Co2, micros and K… less distribution issues. With nutrients it’s location, location, location. As long as your fish feeding is consistent, you get predictable results.

Your epiphytes will need a helping hand with soil reliance at some point though. As general plant mass builds, mercy N and P dosing will be required or a better feeding regime with more fish. More plant mass, more uptake. Think classic ADA setups with their green drop checker and a ton of fish… that’s all we’re really replicating here.



Deano3 said:


> Also any plant you would recomend for the shaded area at the front middle of the tank or would you beings the stones out more and maybe when trim bucephlandra add them to some rocks just trying to think what would look best any opinions welcome.



If it’s an opinion you’re after, let the current groupings grow out mate. It’s a really impactful scape with big features. Large groups of what is already in situ will look grand.


----------



## Deano3 (8 Jan 2022)

Great advice @Geoffrey Rea sorry for the late reply, i will always snip off holed or decaying leaves from now on as makes totall sense, will also look at rowlands dosing regime,  been busy this week as back to work but did water change today and got a few pics. Thanks again loving this tank going to get more rummy nose soon as had a few jumpers. Trimmed the repens on left and replated some tops also trimmed the rear right of the tank but didnt replant as already packed.

looking forward to The crypts growing in a bit but they always seem to take a long time.

Dean


----------



## Deano3 (2 Feb 2022)

Hi everyone hope you are all well.

Tank ticking along nicely, i have millions on pest snails even though i dont feed huge amounts so any tips or secrets would be great 😅.

Added another 12 rummy nose so a noce large geoup now , also added so clithon corona snails  lost one but others seem to be doing ok seen no eggs yet so thats good so hopefully help with gsa on rocks.

The stems at reat are very thick even though only replanted tops once and seem to be in great health, lookimg forward to crypts growing in a bit and seem to be starting to now.

The IFC Calculator doesnt seem to work on my laptop as dont have excell i want the amounts for APT complete if anyone can help pr has the dry amounts and instructions would be very helpful. Was thinking about the APT Zero but think its for less plants so maybe complete be better.

Thanks Dean


----------



## Konsa (2 Feb 2022)

Hi
Beautiful tank!!!
Easily one of my favourites on the forum. Keep up the good work
Regards Konstantin


----------



## Deano3 (2 Feb 2022)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Beautiful tank!!!
> Easily one of my favourites on the forum. Keep up the good work
> Regards Konstantin


Wow 😊 thank you, there is so many beautiful aquariums on this forum


----------



## Deano3 (26 Feb 2022)

Quick update did a long maintenance session yesterday for 2.5 hours or so as ended up cleaning all the pipe work and trimming of the carpet (first carpet trim) as was getting very thick, also trimmed the rotala hra and ludwigia palustris  at the rear right. the crypts that i have a load of different ones seem to be doing well and slowly but surely growing in front of the stems so will hopefully start showing a bit more, apart from that all ticking along nicely.

 Changed the 5kg Fe yesterday as was right near bottom and seeing some slight bba so imagine could be caused due to fluctuating co2 so got that changed.

the small clithon corona snails seems to be ok, think i lost 2 of them but a couple i placed on one rock have never changed and just clean that rock , only trouble is when i placed on the rock on the left is they kept getting stuck in the cracks of the frodo stone.

Thanks Dean


----------



## Deano3 (8 Apr 2022)

Hi everone been a while since last update life just going no where absolutely flying by , did trim yesterday on stems and cant belive how quick the monte carlo carpet has grown back healthier than it was. Apart from that some algae etc but doing less water changes lately only 1 every 8-10 days due to being busy, also one of the fish died and that must have added to ammonia and nitrite levels etc.

They where getting to stressed if stopped filter to feed and darting around so now i dont switch off filter.

All in all doing well, hope everyone is well and having a great year.

When i go on holiday i will not have co2 or lights on for a week so hopefully all ok.

Thanks dean


----------



## Deano3 (7 May 2022)

Hi everyone hope your all well, not been around much lately just been so busy, been on family holiday then new job and house viewings as moving home so been very busy.

Today i managed to clean pipe work and give carpet a good trim as monte carlo grew crazy from last trim, took a good inch or so off the height so looks much better.

Nearly had a disaster as when filling the hose slipped and turned facing the floor  and starterd poiring water infront of tank but luckily i was in living room when happend, i will try not to leave pipe above tank line so that cant happen again and hits inside of the glass.

Thanks Dean


----------



## Anisawrus (9 May 2022)

Deano3 said:


> Nearly had a disaster as when filling the hose slipped and turned facing the floor  and starterd poiring water infront of tank but luckily i was in living room when happend, i will try not to leave pipe above tank line so that cant happen again and hits inside of the glass.



Been there, crazy how much water spreads out on the ground. 

Just wanted to say really enjoying the driftwood sticking out of the tank, something really satisfying about the composition 👍


----------



## Deano3 (9 May 2022)

Anisawrus said:


> Been there, crazy how much water spreads out on the ground.
> 
> Just wanted to say really enjoying the driftwood sticking out of the tank, something really satisfying about the composition 👍


Thanks appreciate the kind words, and yeah so lucky i was there as usually potter about upstairs etc when filling but no harm done 😅. 

Thanks


----------



## Deano3 (6 Jun 2022)

Hi everyone hope your all well, quick picture as Reds looking great, small amounts of bba on the left side but nothing tgat concerns me, also seem to loose a lot of leaves and have holes in a lot of leaves maybe a slight defficency ?

Going to give a trim this week and i will pick out all holed leaves from the buce.

Also it seems i cant keep amanos and ottos as always seem to only have a handful even though was dozen or so earlier i try to feed red peper and cucumber ver few days maybe i was lacking.  Want my cherries to breed more so going to buy some of them sticks as when i put food in small glass jar the amanos swim off with it 🤣. Also foind 1 or 2 bright yellow shrimp, must have came with cherries so not sure what to do as dont want browns.

Love my little horned nerite snails eggs allover the rocks but aslong as not on glass i dont mind. All in all ticking along nicely feels like had this scape a while but been very busy with holidays and house hunting etc so been a blessing to only have one water change a week and nothing else to touch.

Thanks dean


----------



## Deano3 (24 Jun 2022)

Quick visit to horizon today to get a few ottos and amanos and half a dozen rummy nose tetras that i have lost ,also got the version 2 aqua rio pipes and a new ADA thermometer 😫 i said to james i must have purchased about 4 since i got the tank 🤣🤣 shop is looking amazing and is great inspiration. Think want to start ramping my lights for more colour.

My montecarlo is growing crazy not long after a trim but would love more reds and more pop, my lights currently at 60 percent so going to up ot to 70 percent i think.

Also getting algae on my twinstar and my drop checker think must be staghorn and gsa going to spot dose some excel. I will add a recent pic after the trim. 

Lastly i seen a small nano dark water and looked great i would love one of these 🙄


----------



## dw1305 (28 Jun 2022)

Hi all, 


Deano3 said:


> Also getting algae on my twinstar


That is my new <"favourite Twinstar in the tank picture">.




cheers Darrel


----------



## Deano3 (28 Jun 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> That is my new <"favourite Twinstar in the tank picture">.
> 
> ...


🤣🤣 its a beauty isnt it, looks like staghorn type alage, cleaned in bleech and now spotless 🙄 for a while anyway


----------



## _Maq_ (28 Jun 2022)

I'd rather say it's a fungus.


----------

