# My new scape named Variance.Sneaky pre-ADA peak.



## Graeme Edwards (20 Feb 2008)

The name:

*Variance: 
1. the state, quality, or fact of being variable, divergent, different, or anomalous. 
2. an instance of varying; difference; discrepancy. 
3. a difference between conflicting facts or claims or opinions; "a growing divergence of opinion"
4. the quality of being subject to variation [syn: variability] [ant: invariability] 
5. Change.*


Hi all,


Its about time I got back into doing a decant sized aquascape. 
Its been nearly 4 years since I messed with a tank above 45cm's. But here it is, a MASSIVE    90x30x45 tank. 
Im regularly ribbed about my aquascapes being no bigger than a pint glass at every founders and Ukaps meet   

The lighting is via an Arcadia I bar x2 39W Arcadia tubes ( Thanks Green Machine)im not a huge fan of the horrible pink hue they arcadia tubes have.

Filtration is a Fluvel 205 External.

All the hardscape materials in this scape are* Unipac *products. So the wood is *Sumatran Drift *wood. 
Rocks are called *Dark Textured*.They have a unique pattern with a reddish color with light whitish flecks mixed with other slate type tones. Ive had to smash the odd rock up to fit the scape.
The gravel is called Zambezi sand, its around 2mm, perfect for planting and looks very muck like ADA's brighty sand, but a little darker and very natural.

Im not going to plant this up just yet. Im still in need of a few bits of gear, but hopefully ill be making a trip to the very local Green Machine this weekend, were I will have no problems getting all the rest of the sundries and any *Tropica *plants i could wish for, marvelous!  

I layered a 2cm layer of Tropica plant substrate on the base, then mixed some more with some Unipac black fine gravel to raise the mound and to make it a little more accessible to the plants first reaching roots before they get to the main substrate fertilizer.
Then built up the rocks wood and gravel gradually.

Heres the hard-scape.













Cheers.


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## ceg4048 (20 Feb 2008)

Loving it already mate! 8) 

Hey I've got a great idea for a name, how about "Unicorn"? 8) 

Cheers,


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## TDI-line (21 Feb 2008)

Looks good Graeme.

How about calling it 2 pints.


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## Ray (21 Feb 2008)

More like 5 pints, 2 chasers and a kebab!

Those jets on the filter return - are they standard on all Fluval filters or are they an option you can get separately?

Cheers,

Ray


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## Dan Crawford (21 Feb 2008)

Nice one mate, thats gonna look ace!

You've certainly made a good choice with the hardscape. That _Dark Textured, Sumatra_ and _Zambizi_ work really well together.

Love it.


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## Themuleous (21 Feb 2008)

Love the rocks, makes a nice change from the norm.

Sam


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## aaronnorth (21 Feb 2008)

Ray said:
			
		

> Those jets on the filter return - are they standard on all Fluval filters or are they an option you can get separately?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ray



I am not sure but i think they are extra. I got a fluval vicenza 180 included with a fluval 205 and it come with that outlet but last month i got another one for my 60l but it came with the standard outlet they usually come with.

Nice tank by the way!


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## Graeme Edwards (21 Feb 2008)

The filter out lets came with the 205 filter. the filter was destined for a large Fluvel Venice or something like that, so i guess its standard for them with the Italian range complete systems they do.

I am really happy with the hardscape materials. Despite the poor representation on the materials in the Unipac catalog, these are great. Its nice how the Zambezi sand lifts tones from the dark texture rock, all very earthy and natural. the Rock also has a nice randomness about it, very much like natural rock formations.
If i was to recommend buying rocks, i would suggest that you aim to get as much as you can possible afford. This gives your the most creative scope with what you have to hand, plus you can smash some of the spear lesser rocks up to fill in gaps to create more of a natural composition.

Ive been looking through the Tropica catalog today trying to decide on some plants.
As it stands im going to have some Aponogeton Madagascar*****( Lace plant ), some Philippine Java fern, HC, Christmas moss, UG, Hair grass and a selection of stems and crypts. Ill get all these from The Green Machine this weekend.

Clive, love the name Unicorn, but im abit unsure for the wood is not solo. Maybe some reference to a kind of deer, Maybe a Latin influence from the Philippine Spotted Deer we have in the zoo, * scratches head*!

Cheers guys.


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## Arana (21 Feb 2008)

Loving it  can't w wait to see it with some plants


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## Moss Man (26 Feb 2008)

Great hardscape, this is going to be brilliant.


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## Graeme Edwards (27 Feb 2008)

Well Ive planted it up now. I went to The Green Machine and came out with over Â£60 worth of Tropica plants. The problem is, when all the plants look so good its hard to stop buying! Its great being able to browse through the hundreds of plants and come away with exactly what you want, there and then, and you can pick your own, non of this, fingers crossed ill get HC and not Macrananthemum umbrosum or what ever, like some places I know of.

Plant list.
Rotala sp. ''green'' -2 pots
Ludwigia arcuata -1 pot 
Hygrophila corymbosa ''Compact'' - 1 pot
Hygrophila corymbosa ''Red'' -1 pot
Bolbitis heudelotii  -1 pot
Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine' -1pot
Aponogeton madagascariensis -1 pot
Cryptocoryne crispatula var. balansae - spare from an old tank.
Cryptocoryne parva - spare plant.
Cryptocoryne x willisii  ( not sure if it is this one )
Eleocharis parvula - 3 pots
Riccia fluitans - spare plants
Willow moss - spare plants
Anubias barteri var. nana - spare plant

Co2 is set at 1 bps on for 24 hours a day.
Lighting is 6 hours. Im going to slowly increase this as It progresses.
No firts or fish just yet.









Cheers.


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## Themuleous (27 Feb 2008)

Nice, do the rocks on the left not look a bit big now though?


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2008)

Lookin' good mate.

Will look great once filled in, I'm sure.

Good idea to limit light and ferts with low plant biomass.

How's the CO2 mist getting around with the Fluval 205? It might be better to have it go into the filter inlet.

Sorry, I clean forgot the JBL filter last time...  You should have reminded me - I'm a scatter brain!  I've still got one spare BTW.


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Nice, do the rocks on the left not look a bit big now though?



Don't forget the plants grow, Sam.


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## alexandre (27 Feb 2008)

Very nice. 
What type of fishes are you planning to add?


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## Dave Spencer (27 Feb 2008)

Oi, Jim got the Rotala _sp_ `green` for me.  

Just joking, I already bought three pots.

Just to let you know, Graeme, my Hygrophila corymbosa `compact` suffered a big die off. It has spent about two weeks underwater, and I am still waiting for it to grow back. If you see yours dying off, I would recommend cutting off all the leaves to prevent ammonia triggering algae.

Dave.


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## aaronnorth (28 Feb 2008)

Nice jungle look, even if the plants didn't grow i still think they are an ok size. 

Well done


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## Martin (28 Feb 2008)

just as a matter of interest Graeme and Dave, I too bought the hygrophila corymbosa 'compact' from the GreenMachine ( a popular little blighter! ), about 4 weeks ago and it is growing well, it's doubled in size, probably more down to luck than judgement!


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## Graeme Edwards (28 Feb 2008)

Sam-, I think when the plants bed in and you see it for real you will change your mind. For me im very happy with that rock as it is.

George-, no worries on the filter, you can always bring it when you stay in April. The 205 is fine at the moment. Ive got on jet nozzle pointed down over the diffuser, so its blowing the mist back down and round, so it seems OK. Theres a nice flow around the tank.

Alexandre- Im not sure of fish, some kind of Rasbora. The Green Machine have a good selection of micro rasbora, so id like some of them. I love the way rasbory shoal. Very captivating.

Dave- lol, Jim did take the micky about you buying him out, well almost, i bought the pots you didn't! Hes kean to know what are the popular plants so he can get them in. He said hes going to order a load of Rotala green again.
Ill keep an eye on the Hygro, see what happens.

aaronnorth- cheers mate.

martin- hope my hygro does as well as yours has.

Fish are going in today. They are old stock and not what I want but needs must.
White cloud minnows, Pygmy Corry's, 2 other types of cory, a green goby and the odd random loner too.

Cheers.


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## Themuleous (28 Feb 2008)

Fair the enough  it probably looks different in reael life too.

Sam


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## TDI-line (29 Feb 2008)

Very nice, where's the fish....


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## The Green Machine (8 Mar 2008)

*Hello Graeme*

Hi Graeme,

The tank is looking excellent, hope you had fun with it!

I am currently looking at Unipac stuff so I am very interested in any feedback you can give me on it. I spoke to Roy yesterday, he sounds a nice fella- very helpful.

The Madagascariensis should look stunning once it establishes and for such a beautiful plant I am surprised to find it is not as fashionable as it once was- keep us posted and it may just become so again!

I got hold of those Sawbwa Resplendens and they are filling out and colouring up nicely. With a little TLC they should look stunning in a week or so.

Anyway once again good to see the continuing high standards, take care and happy planting,

Jim & Mark
The Green Machine


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## beeky (10 Mar 2008)

There was a thread a while ago on unipac stuff after a meeting with the guy. The feedback was very positive but it still seems difficult to get hold and the catalogue doesn't do it justice. I don't think there's a web site for any of it either.

If unipac could get their marketing together a bit I think they'd really take off.


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## Dan Crawford (10 Mar 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> There was a thread a while ago on unipac stuff after a meeting with the guy. The feedback was very positive but it still seems difficult to get hold and the catalogue doesn't do it justice. I don't think there's a web site for any of it either.
> 
> If unipac could get their marketing together a bit I think they'd really take off.



UniPac stuff is in almost every MA and most World of Waters  
They don't have a website per say because they don't sell to the end user.


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## daniel19831123 (10 Mar 2008)

I know this might sound stupid graeme but how did you keep your substrate level like that? I find that no matter how i level my substrate they will eventually turn out flat. Did you put something underneath the substrate to keep them in place?


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## Graeme Edwards (11 Mar 2008)

Hi Daniel,
I think the mojor condition is the amount of gravel you use. I have at least a 4 inch depth at the hightest and a 1 inch depth at the lowest. Thats a lot of gravel. You could be grading your gravel to steap compared to your tank dimensions. It could be that your fish ie; Corry's or other cats are spending thier evenings re-landscaping your tank for you. I have a green goby ( which has to be the coolest fish around ) and he likes to spend time making burrows under rocks or wood. As he is on his own, it isnt such a big isue for the overall look of the tank, but any way i like him a lot !
Carfull placement off rock and wood, and also layering as you scape will help you keep your mounds. We can chatt about it at TGM on the 5th, i can give you a better idea with the use of the odd rock etc.

UPDATE.

Ive had some unsightly brown thread/hair algae in the tank. Proberbly due to a relatively small bio mass, to quick on stocking the fish and a filter that is trying to catch up. Im going to remove as much as possible manualy. Ive added 6 Amano shrimp and 3 Flying fox. I have to get it sorted, i cant have a tonne of members visiting my house and my tanks looking in bad order, no way!!!

Cheers.


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## daniel19831123 (11 Mar 2008)

I will like to add some siamese algae eater to my tank too but then I want my tank to be just for my CRS. Not sure if they will snack on the shrimplets.

Yeah I understand the amount of gravel is essential. I started off mine with 2 inches on one end and 5 inches on the other and now it's 3 inches in most of the places. 

I'm setting up a new tank with akadama as substrate and it will probably be an iwagumi style tank. Hopefully everything is going to stay in place.Can't wait till I speak to everyone  on the 5th!


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## Superman (21 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

I must of missing this one previously, this is along the lines of what I'm looking to do - obviously not copy it but that style!

That rock and substrate look superb and might just have to find some for myself. How much weight in those rocks would you say you've used?

I seem to have trouble finding UniPac stuff online, so any tips would be appreciated.


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## planter (21 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Nice looking hardscape graeme. I especially like the Zambezi sand, I may have to look into this. I pressume it is inert?


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## LondonDragon (21 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Lookings good, love the hardscape. Keep us posted with some photos


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## CJ Castle (23 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Another nice setup, Graeme...


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## Graeme Edwards (23 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Unipac products arnt that hard to find, its the good Unipca products that are. Roy the director is always open to opinions and we have informed him about how good and bad some of his products are. The problem we have as the costumer is that we rely on the retailer to stock what we want, and the retailer rely on what the wholesaler has. The problem Unipac have is that the wholesaler are only supplying the bread and butter products such as the florescent gravel and fake woods etc. As a costumer, you need to be aware of what you want, then make you local retailer aware of what it is you want, eventually, you would hope that this would feed back to the wholesaler, who will supply the retailer the goods your after. Obviously, the retailer needs to feel that its in enough demand to pay out for new stock. So here we are Ukaps, doing just that. If you keep asking, thou shall get. I honestly think that this Zambezi sand will take off. Its so natural and a lovely mixed tone. I can only liken it to ADA's Bright sand, but better value for money.It is totally inert and does not need one bit of washing, its brilliant.

Superman, I would say I had around 20K of rocks in there. If you can, buy as much as you can afford, you will have more choice of rocks to scape with.

Some new photos will be going up later this evening, after a water change etc.

Hope that answerers your questions guys.

Cheers.


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## Superman (23 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Thanks Graeme,

I appreciate what you mean re the distribution system.

20kgs, wow that seems a lot but expect that the rocks are heavy anyway.

The only online distributor of that rock is the online aquarium store and I've had a bad experience with them recently, so won't be buying anything off them in a hurray. Might see if my LFS can order some in. If not the Zebra rock at AE looks similar.


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## Graeme Edwards (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Bit of delay on the new pictures, sorry about that. 
These have been taken very quickly, so I apologies for the poor quality guys, but you get the gist.
Things are running fine. I have a small issue with thread algae and some algae on the rocks. This is probably due to the slow growth nature of the plants in there,and the low bio mass. Ive cranked up the Co2 and have been adding a product by SERA called Marina. Its like a black water tonic. The idea being that it cuts out a particular color or wavelengths that triggers algae. Well thats the theory any way, but I have no conclusive evidence that it works in that way. Worth a go though, and its totally natural, which i like a lot. Chemicals have very little space in my cabinet.

Plants are growing well. I cut the Philipene fern and Bolbitos right back, so there is a bit of a gap in the middle of the wood. I hope it looks good when you all visit. Im praying it does lol









Cheers.


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## Superman (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Looks fantastic!

I love the tall red plant in the middle.


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## Themuleous (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Very nice, we gonna be able to see this on the 5th?


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## afroturf (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Really nice Graeme, I really like the foreground planting mixing the Riccia and Eleocharis together rather than large clumps of each, looks very natural. Good work.


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## Dan Crawford (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

woo hoo! That rock man. Very "Edwards" with atention to detail being second to none. Your vision is incredible pal I'm blown away with how this has progressed, love your work.


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## ceg4048 (26 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Looking good Graeme! That red looks almost like L glandulosa in the middle. Solid.

By the way, that Sera Morena is just peat extract and just makes the water dimmer. Morena is Spanish for "brown". You could have the same or better algae fighting effect by turning off the lights an hour earlier. I totally with you on the chemical issue but Excel would have been a better buy mate.  

Cheers,


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## Graeme Edwards (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*

Thanks every one, your all to kind!

Clive: I thought thats what it was. I went on recommendation, but i thought, its totally natural, it cant do it any harm. The fish seem to reveal in it. I have some easy life carbon, maybe I should dose a bit of that. 
Lighting is only on for 7 hours at the moment. I could knock it down to 6 and see how it goes.

I have now named this scape call " variance ". It means a lot to me at the moment, with many changes in my personal situation.But it can also apply to the world of aquascaping and in particular my design.

*Variance: 
1. the state, quality, or fact of being variable, divergent, different, or anomalous.  
2. an instance of varying; difference; discrepancy.  
3.  a difference between conflicting facts or claims or opinions; "a growing divergence of opinion"
4. the quality of being subject to variation [syn: variability] [ant: invariability] 
5. Change.*

Cheers.


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## Steve Smith (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

I like the name, and the scape is excellent   The Zambezi sand is a great product, I'd love to give some a try.

Edit:  Is >>this the same sand? << The fact that it says "Marine" makes me unsure...


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## Graeme Edwards (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Yeah it looks like it. Its probably just a marketing thing. It would look fine in a marine tank too. Marine is a reference to water, so don't worry to much about it. Its inert, its fine.

Cheers.


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## John Starkey (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Hi Graham, quality mate absolute quality, i cant wait to see it on the 5th i quite like the idea of the mound scape i may go down that route when i set up my next tank, ( i have got the wife on my side now   ) i may even buy my stuff at tgm on that weekend, see you soon john


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## Arana (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

I'm sure we will all be gathered around this one on the 5th... great work mate


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## TDI-line (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Lovely scape Graham.


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## nickyc (27 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Great name too!


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## Moss Man (29 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Very nice tank.


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## George Farmer (29 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Superb mate.  Great mound composition.


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## The Green Machine (29 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Looking good Graeme! That red looks almost like L glandulosa in the middle. Solid.
> 
> By the way, that Sera Morena is just peat extract and just makes the water dimmer. Morena is Spanish for "brown". You could have the same or better algae fighting effect by turning off the lights an hour earlier. I totally with you on the chemical issue but Excel would have been a better buy mate.
> 
> Cheers,



Hello Graeme

Lovely tank and getting better.

Looking forward to seeing the 35L you are doing in-store for us.

For the record, the Morena or for that matter any similar product acts as a subtractive colour filtering agent.

When added the water column, which turns a golden yellow acts as a yellow filter removing much of the blue and uv from the colour spectrum and thus depriveing algae of its preferred light spectrum.

It has been observed in certain shallow Amazon streams that run clear, algae is extremely prevalent, conversely, similar streams which are stained with tannins seem to be algae free.

The proof of the pudding however is in the eating and all I can say is that it works for me and seems to have done so for you.

Of course gravy browning would probably do the same job but then I dont think we would really want that in our tanks lol

Anyway, once again great tank and looking forward to seeing you soon,

Take care and happy planting,

Jim ann Mark,
TGM.


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## beeky (29 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Does it affect the water chemistry at all i.e. acidify it? Just wondered as it's derived from peat.


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## The Green Machine (30 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

It may soften a little but not noticeably.
Water chemistry stays cool and as graeme says the fish seem to revel in it.
Here at TGM we will not even use medications in our displays so we are pretty anti chemical.

Another point of interest is that I am told that extra heavy dosing with products of this nature-along with a PH of about 6 is a good way to treat sick fish.
There is no documented proof of this but comes from the mouth of the best fish wholesaler that I know and I respect his opinions.

I suppose that if this does work it is because the fishes natural conditions are being closely matched thereby reducing stress levels after bouncing around in a plastic bag for 24 hours.

Oh by the way the fish in question were South American.

Take care and happy planting,

Jim and Mark,

TGM


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## ceg4048 (30 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new nameless scape!*



			
				The-Green-Machine said:
			
		

> For the record, the Morena or for that matter any similar product acts as a subtractive colour filtering agent.
> 
> When added the water column, which turns a golden yellow acts as a yellow filter removing much of the blue and uv from the colour spectrum and thus depriveing algae of its preferred light spectrum.
> 
> ...



Hi,
     Many of the theories regarding algae light preference have been based on the studies done in oceanography. The sea is blue because water absorbs the higher wavelengths. Marine algae take advantage of this by producing pigments to absorb blue light and thus can be found at deeper levels relative to corals for example.

In fresh water the situation is a bit different. Higher plants share exactly the same photosynthetic mechanisms as algae, specifically, the distribution and content profile of special pigment cells. I have no doubt that the tea stained and black water tributaries of the Amazon river basin would tend to have a lower incidence of algae, however, I'm sure that further investigation will reveal that these tributaries also will tend to have a much lower population of plants as well.

Both plants and algae have a distribution of various pigment types, not just chlorophyll, that enable them to take advantage of the spectral quality of the light in their environment. In natural systems the spectral quality of the light varies minute by minute, but there is a general trend of red/orange/yellow light early in the morning and blue light near midday. As a result, both algae and plants contain an arsenal of non-chlorophyll pigment types specifically suited to the absorption of certain wavelengths other than blue. These pigment cells are referred to as "Accessory Pigments" and among many others, include the following general types of pigments:

Carotenoids, which are normally fat soluble. these are responsible for reds, yellows and orange colors of many fruits and vegetables
Xanthophylls, which are water soluble, a carotene derivative, typically yellow/orange.
Flavonoids, which are yellow and red/blue and are often found in flowers.

Additionally, algae and plants, depending on their specie, use specific pigments to protect (by fluorescent reflectance) against damage due to an overabundance of light energy in the visible and non-visible spectrum or to gain a specific advantage in certain spectral environments. A few example are as follows:

Phycocyanins absorbs orange and red light, particularly near 620 nm, and emits fluorescence at about 650 nm.
Allophycocyanin absorbs and emits red light (650 and 660 nm), and is readily found in Cyanobacteria (AKA BGA).
Phycoerythrin is a red protein which absorbs energy in the 480-565 nm range.

An additional point often ignored is that as a result of the spectral changes which occur on a daily basis as mentioned above, it turns out that plants and algae simply use the daily spectral profile to regulate their metabolism. Experiments were performed by irradiating algae using red light. It was discovered that these red wavelengths stimulate carbon fixation in the algae, in effect making them more efficient at using CO2 and better able to produce glucose and sucrose.  When blue light was added, there was an immediate shift in metabolism wherein glucose and sucrose production ceased and instead, the fixed carbon was used in the synthesis of organic acids, amino acids, and proteins.

The vast inventory of non-chlorophyll pigments produced by plants and algae allow a much greater range over the spectrum than using Chlorophyll alone. Plants can and do change the concentrations and type of these pigments to suit their environment. Algae essentially do exactly the same thing either at the single or colonial cell level. Thus, changing the spectral output in the tank does not result in any advantage over algae. In fact these experiments, as well as others demonstrate the incredible adaptability of plants and algae in regards to spectral efficiency. They prove unequivocally the there is no such thing as a "plant specific" light bulb or an "algae-unfavorable" light spectrum. Plants and algae alike simply adapt to and assimilate whatever spectral environment is available.

Therefore the amount of peat extract or Morena that would be required to have any significant effect on the algae in this or any tank would be so high as to affect the photosynthetic and metabolic processes of the plants themselves. Algae cannot be outwitted in any way, shape or form. The best stratagem in plant husbandry therefore is to focus on the the needs of the plant first and in that way healthy plants will deter algal blooms. It is for this reason that the use of Excel/Easycarbo will return more dividends than any peat extract or black water tonic could ever dare to dream of. If this product is being added for the fauna, and if it has proven it's worth in this regard then, yes fine, but the hypothesis that it is an algal deterrent due to spectral suppression cannot be shown. Proof of pudding is also not valid as there are many variables in biochemistry that can result in optical illusions, coincidences and false correlations. As empirical evidence, the spectral profile of my tank includes high levels of blue as I have several blue bulbs, and yet, I have no algae. Therefore the spectral mechanism of this product cannot be correlated to algal decline unless sufficient quantities are added to lower the spectral energy level in the tank to a level below the Light Compensation Point (LCP) of the algae.


Cheers,


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## Graeme Edwards (30 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

You know Clive, you never ceases to amaize me. Knoladge and fountaion seem to sum you up!  

Its an interesting notion of thought that Jim has put forward, and from his personal experiance and of others using such products, there seems to be some benifit to at least the fish, even if its not totaly apprent that it could help the plants. One thing it does make me think about though, is reading through Amano's monologs on some of the tanks he has set up. Its quite common that he would add mature water from another tank to help the plants establish a little quicker. Is it not possible that by adding products like Marena, that this is having a similar effect. Thus the plants kick into action that little bit quicker,and the ballance of plant V algae is swung?!?
I understand transfure of bacteria from the water changes, but there will be forms of organic acids, enzymes etc, that may also be within products like marena, which is were the benifit lies.
Its a very open ended debate, but with what you have present Clive, it does seem that marena is not going to beat the battle for us, but it also isnt going to do any harm either.

Graeme.


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## Arana (30 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Thanks Clive i have been thinking about light lately and this has helped me a lot  
I believe most tannins are natural anticeptics and probably help the fish in that way.


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## ceg4048 (30 Mar 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Hiya Graeme,
  I'm not so amazing mate, the plants are amazing! Totally and utterly amazing!   I want to know every detail of their processes, even down to the molecular and subatomic level. It's a hopeless dream unfortunately, because I only have one lifetime and I do have a day job   

As you say it certainly can't hurt to add this stuff and there are so many gaps in our knowledge that it will take some time before we can say exactly what does what and why. I agree that the Morena and other tannic extracts may prove useful in terms of fish health, after all fish are found in these tannic waters. If in fact it turns out that there is some relationship between these organic acids and the reduction of algae that would be great, but what I'm attempting to demonstrate is that it will be for some other, more fundamental reasons. Most view their tanks only in terms of fish and plants and completely ignore the most important aspect of the tank, the bacteriology. There may be some mileage there and I can't find any data out there which suggest one way or the other whether this is true.

You know what a skeptic I am so you won't be surprised that the old "because-Amano-uses-it" routine doesn't excite me at all. If I used everything Amano purports to use I'd have to get a second mortgage on my house, and really, that brings up the most important point. I know you are trying to whip the tank into shape no holds barred. I understand that and every edge possible is fair game, but many aquarists don't have the means or the knowledge to select from the dizzying array of vendor product and it is difficult for them to determine what products/procedures will yield the best growth with the least chance of algae. While Morena or similar products may provide some advantage, the benefits of which are as yet undetermined by objective tests right now, we know from empirical evidence absolutely that Excel/Easycarbo has demonstrated that it has not only algecidal properties, but that it helps satisfy the carbon uptake requirements of plants. If forced to choose between the two due to financial constraints I cannot see any reason to choose Morena over a liquid carbon product.

In any case I'll refrain from hijacking your thread mate   The tank is looking awesome and I'm sure it's going to go from strength to strength 8). 

Cheers,


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## Graeme Edwards (25 May 2008)

*Re: My new scape named Variance.*

Update:

Unlike my nano which has suffered from neglect but not had the resilience to cope, my 90cm has been doing very well with the lack of water changes, random plant feeding and forgetting to switch the heater on and have no Co2 for nearly a week. Its look pretty good.
During the period of no Co2, I used easy life carbon.
Water changes have been 50% as regular as my personal life allows.
Dosing has been 5 ml when I remember, but usually every other day or near 2-3 times a week, very random.
I wasn't going to enter this Into the ADA layout contest, but thought, what the hell, ill see where i fair. If i get higher than 713th in 2006 then I will be very happy.Im not sure its that out standing considering the global competition, but hope it beats my best if nothing ells.
I cant show a full tank shot, but I can show some teaser pictures. Im going to do a full photo shoot possibly Thurs/Fri and submit the best.

Heres a sneaky peak! Hope you all like.


















Cheers.


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## ceg4048 (26 May 2008)

Wow Graeme, love the variety and interplay of texture and form. The reddish rock in the hairgrass field is spectacular. Good stuff mate!  

Cheers,


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## Arana (26 May 2008)

superb  can't wait to see the whole tank, great photos as well


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## Dan Crawford (27 May 2008)

awesome mate, can't wait to see it in the flesh now that its matured real nicely. Loving the photos too, so soft. Wicked mate.


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## John Starkey (27 May 2008)

Hi Graham,awsome mate it looks so clean cut and the plants look really healthy, its come on well since i saw it a few a weeks ago good luck in the ada contest,regards john.


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## Steve Smith (27 May 2008)

Best of luck in the contest mate!

Loving the sneaky peek!


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## George Farmer (27 May 2008)

Nice photos mate and great to see another UK entrant into the ADA!

The hairgrass has softened the red of the rock nicely.  Kudos for having the foresight.

Also, great idea to give us some pre-contest shots.  I may do the same with Dan's entry if he allows.  I'm off to do a photo shoot tomorrow, for the ADA contest and PFK Great Planted Tank series.  My entry will be previewed in Aug issue of PFK, as will Dan's.


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## nickyc (27 May 2008)

Really can't wait to see the full tank shot - it looks amazing!  You'd never guess this was a neglected tank!!  

What's the purplish coloured plant in the first shot?

Good luck in the contest!


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## aaronnorth (1 Jun 2008)

I wish everyone would stop postiong sneak previews


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## TDI-line (1 Jun 2008)

Good luck Graeme.


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## Graeme Edwards (1 Jun 2008)

Thanks for all the nice compliments guys, much appreciated.

The tank has been entered, im not at all happy with it or the final photograph. I was rushed and had poor lighting over the tank, which made it hard to get a crisp light clean look to the whole tank shot.The close up pictures came out great. Im not happy with my hair grass, so im going to rip most of it out, and change a few things. Its to late for the ADA now, but i wanted to get it in for this year, next year ill have another to enter and plan for it this time.In the mean time, i want to get this scape looking its best, have another go with more time for the photography and then bag it and book it and then onto the next.

Worth knowing, if you haven't entered, perhaps you thought it might cost, or to difficult, it really isn't. Its an on lime for with a browse tab and done, so its worth entering, just because its so easy to do so.


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## Arana (1 Jun 2008)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Worth knowing, if you haven't entered, perhaps you thought it might cost, or to difficult, it really isn't. Its an on lime for with a browse tab and done, so its worth entering, just because its so easy to do so.



Yeah i entered my 120cm, not because i think it stands any chance whatsoever   but because it was free and i thought the more from the UK the merrier


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## beeky (2 Jun 2008)

What's the cut off date and URL?


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## George Farmer (2 Jun 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> What's the cut off date and URL?



Too late - 31st May.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... blogid=160


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