# AS900- restart and rethink.



## SRP3006 (15 Aug 2020)

Hi all.

After struggling to maintain my previous larger, deeper, braced aquarium I have opted for an (hopefully) easier aquarium to upkeep.
It's been a few months in planning (longer due to obvious reasons) but I'm almost there.
So yesterday the aquarium and cabinet arrived, very well made, very neat tidy and sleek.
Cabinet leveled off and tank positioned. So far so good. Hopefully I can do things right this time to stop me having problems later on.
AS900
Twinstar 900s
Oase 600 thermo
FE via inline diffuser
JBL volcano mineral
Tropica soil and powder
ADA power sand advance
Dark landscape rock
Manzanita
ADA la plata sand
Aquascaper pipework. 

The scape will be an island scape with la plata around the edges. 

Plant list is not yet certain but will consist of,
Cryptocoryne willissii
Cryptocoryne petchii
Cryptocoryne pygmaea
Micranthenum monte carlo
Weeping moss
Hygrophila pinnatifida
Anubias bonsai
Buce green
Buce theia
Buce sp red
Bolbitus heudelotii
Microsorum trident
Rotala Vietnam H'ra
Hemianthus micranthemoides.

Thanks to aquarium Gardens once again for all the help and of course all the kit. 

Guess I better start scaping, can't wait to get started, will be plenty of questions along the way to ensure I don't balls it up.


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## Jayefc1 (16 Aug 2020)

Looking good mate can't wait to see it scaped


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## LondonDragon (16 Aug 2020)

Exciting times  good luck with this one


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## Deano3 (16 Aug 2020)

Practically the exact same kit as mine i am off mid september so plan to scape mine then  really looking forward to this mate sure will turn out great.

Dean

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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

Thanks guys.

Right it's 'scaped' and I would like some honest feedback please.
Nothing is glued at all yet. Soil is in except the powder and la plata.

I can see already its going to be an uphill battle keeping soil off the sand  
(any tips)

Sam.


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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

Slight change to the wood.

Ignore the masking tape and some of the floss sticking out.


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## Jayefc1 (16 Aug 2020)

Plant it and leave the sand out for a few days after filling let all the soil move and settle before adding any sand or pebbles that way when you do your water changes any rogue soil can be hovered out easily without losing that expansive ADA sand love the lay out mate


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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Plant it and leave the sand out for a few days after filling let all the soil move and settle before adding any sand or pebbles that way when you do your water changes any rogue soil can be hovered out easily without losing that expansive ADA sand love the lay out mate


Thanks Jay, I will leave the monte carlo until I add the sand then. As its getting added between the two if that makes sense


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## Deano3 (16 Aug 2020)

I like it mate not seen a nice island layout for a while and i will have same battle, are you glueing anything down or does it not need it, also how many plants you ordering as thins is one thing i am unsure of how many pots ?

Also you using all in one ferts or dry powders.

Dean

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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

Deano3 said:


> I like it mate not seen a nice island layout for a while and i will have same battle, are you glueing anything down or does it not need it, also how many plants you ordering as thins is one thing i am unsure of how many pots ?
> 
> Also you using all in one ferts or dry powders.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate, I have some pro haru glue for the wood, I have soaked it for 3 weeks and it was very slimy so hopefully it won't float. I will glue it just to be sure. Not sure on how many pots I will be ordering but is it quite a lot of plants. Sorted it on my visit to AG and they recommend planting heavy from the start (and it's a lot heavier than my heavy ).

I'll adjust the original post to show how many of each plant I'll be buying.

I have a jebao auto doser from my other tank and plenty of dry ferts, I think I will be using them however still tempted by the all in one as the tank is smaller.


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## Jayefc1 (16 Aug 2020)

You can just make your own all in one with dry ferts it's pretty easy to do looks complicated but if I can do it I'm sure you can


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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

I need to look into that a little more, first time I saw it mentioned was in @LondonDragon journal. Are there any downsides at to an all in one mixture?


Would anybody move anything or change in the scape? See any problems with it?


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## Jayefc1 (16 Aug 2020)

I think the only thing I would change if possible is the thicker piece of wood on the right hand side that just kinda sticks up if it connected break it off use it else where or turn it so it creates a line toward the main trunk


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## SRP3006 (16 Aug 2020)

It's part of a twist Jay, maybe I can turn it a little. U can just about see it in the pic, its connected to the bit that trails over the rocks. I can't break it without breaking the whole piece, I'll try twisting it?


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## Jayefc1 (16 Aug 2020)

Yeah I see what you mean it wasnt a bad thing it's a nice scape mate


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## Onoma1 (18 Aug 2020)

I am not an expert and this is only my personal viewpoint. 

I like the scape and can see how you are going for a classic U shape in the island. I wonder however,  if or how you will keep the negative space at the centre. 

My personal perspective would be to align the far right piece with the other branches  almost as if it was being pushed by a water current. I would prefer to see them aligned.

I am not sure about your planting  plan, however,  I would focus on what will be seen after the plants grow in. I often see amazing scapes that are rapidly obscured by the planting.

Just some thoughts...


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## rebel (18 Aug 2020)

Onoma1 said:


> I would focus on what will be seen after the plants grow in.


This is quite an advanced concept and very difficult without plenty of experience in plant growth patterns.


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## SRP3006 (18 Aug 2020)

Onoma1 said:


> I am not an expert and this is only my personal viewpoint.
> 
> I like the scape and can see how you are going for a classic U shape in the island. I wonder however, if or how you will keep the negative space at the centre.
> 
> ...


Thanks, which far piece are you talking about? The twist or the branch hanging over the rocks?

As for negative space the larger piece of manzi has a nice little 'cave' area at its base which I will try to leave visible. Since that photo I have dragged some of the smaller pieces towards the rocks a little more to allow for them to be seen after planting. But as for seeing the scape after planting I'm afraid I haven't been doing this long enough to see it all grown in.

I will have a look today and see if I can align some of the pieces.


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## Onoma1 (18 Aug 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks, which far piece are you talking about? The twist or the branch hanging over the rocks?
> 
> As for negative space the larger piece of manzi has a nice little 'cave' area at its base which I will try to leave visible. Since that photo I have dragged some of the smaller pieces towards the rocks a little more to allow for them to be seen after planting. But as for seeing the scape after planting I'm afraid I haven't been doing this long enough to see it all grown in.
> 
> I will have a look today and see if I can align some of the pieces.




I am still a beginner in this area so please do take my comments with a large pinch of salt. I would place each piece of wood so it is aligned in the same direction, towards the left side of the tank. So I would move the branch. It comes down to imo your personal viewpoint...what you like.


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## Luketendo (18 Aug 2020)

I wouldn't worry much about what it will look like grown in. I am in the same boat and I just move the plants about or take some out and replace with others etc.

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## Jayefc1 (18 Aug 2020)

One thing I have learnt when planting is to group the plants keep the leave sizes from small to bigger


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## ChrisD80 (18 Aug 2020)

I can see already its going to be an uphill battle keeping soil off the sand  
(any tips)

Hi [mention]SRP3006 [/mention] I am not experienced but some tactics I used include:

- White filter floss stuffed between rocks but out of sight to block gaps.

- black filter sponge to block gaps in visible areas for example where a rock is against the glass. The black sponge is a close colour match to the aqua soil so not very noticeable.

- cotton wool soaked in superglue and covered in crushed aquasoil (for disguise) to create tiny dams between where rocks meet each other and soil could overflow

- quite powerful magnet from Amazon used to attract magnetic aqua soil away from non magnetic sand. I do this on the sand I have sucked out of the aquarium and dried out but I think it should work underwater as I have seen something similar on YouTube.

Cheers Chris 


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## SRP3006 (18 Aug 2020)

Onoma1 said:


> I am still a beginner in this area so please do take my comments with a large pinch of salt. I would place each piece of wood so it is aligned in the same direction, towards the left side of the tank. So I would move the branch. It comes down to imo your personal viewpoint...what you like.


I see what you mean and I've been moving the wood about but that wood looks really awkward in any other position I've tried due to the loop. I've moved a few other bits and I think I'm happy with it now.
There's no way I'm winning any competitions but I kinda like it , and it's given me some experience for future scapes


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## SRP3006 (18 Aug 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> One thing I have learnt when planting is to group the plants keep the leave sizes from small to bigger


Well the stem plants have pretty small leaves at the back, 3 species of small Cryptocoryne in the middle ground along with the epiphytes. Monte carlo pushed in the gaps between the rocks and on top the rocks in the gaps. So smaller at the back mostly.


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## SRP3006 (18 Aug 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> - black filter sponge to block gaps in visible areas for example where a rock is against the glass. The black sponge is a close colour match to the aqua soil so not very noticeable.
> 
> - cotton wool soaked in superglue and covered in crushed aquasoil (for disguise) to create tiny dams between where rocks meet each other and soil could overflow



Thanks Chris, I like those, especially with the sponge as I have loads of black sponge left from previous filters. Whatever I do I think the Amanos are going to have their own agenda anyway


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## SRP3006 (18 Aug 2020)

Updated scape


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## SRP3006 (24 Aug 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> You can just make your own all in one with dry ferts it's pretty easy to do looks complicated but if I can do it I'm sure you can


Can anybody point me in the right direction to make my own all in one fert?
I have most of the dry powders already, just a 'recipe' if you like.


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## hypnogogia (25 Aug 2020)

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm


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## LondonDragon (25 Aug 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Can anybody point me in the right direction to make my own all in one fert?
> I have most of the dry powders already, just a 'recipe' if you like.


You can use my formula in my thread


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## SRP3006 (25 Aug 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> You can use my formula in my thread


Thank you, is that based on EI? I've read through your thread but I wasn't sure and noticed you reverted back to your original fert mixture.


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## LondonDragon (25 Aug 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thank you, is that based on EI? I've read through your thread but I wasn't sure and noticed you reverted back to your original fert mixture.


I can post an update of what I am using now, I have just slightly tweaked my original formula!


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## SRP3006 (29 Aug 2020)

Plants arrived from @Aquarium Gardens, usual amazing quality and service, really well packed quality plants.
Was originally planning on doing the plants tomorrow night but couldn't wait 

Tank fully planted now and I've got the weekend to try and sort the co2 and get a head start on water changes.

First time using buce theia, and I'm going to be ordering some more as they are stunning. 











Ignore the skimmer cable, backing is TBC, also some more buce and anubias to fish out of the spare tank in daylight so I don't spook the fish.


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## Melll (29 Aug 2020)

Very nice


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## Jayefc1 (29 Aug 2020)

Looks really nice Sam what was your plant list in the end i like the way you have planted out the sections in the back can't wait to see the sand in and the red plants poping out will change the look entirely


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## SRP3006 (29 Aug 2020)

Thanks Jay, 
Plant list was basically the same as above but with addition of floaters and extra buce and anubias.

Got a feeling I didn't order enough crypts though, may add them to an order with some more buce.


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## SRP3006 (29 Aug 2020)

Melll said:


> Very nice


Thank you.


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## LondonDragon (29 Aug 2020)

Looks great already  Buce Theia is also my fav!


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## alto (30 Aug 2020)

Tank looks awesome 

Before ordering more Buces, Crypts I’d wait for tank to settle a bit (you may want to add some more fast growers or replace plants that may have melted etc) 

As you mention fish in a spare tank, I’d wait for MC to begin rooting (usually a couple weeks) before adding fish and big shrimp (ie Amano type) back to the tank 

Also keep moss trimmed close to the wood initially to encourage lateral growth and (hopefully) better adhesion (depending upon moss variety and wood surface)


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## alto (30 Aug 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> After struggling to maintain my previous larger, deeper, braced aquarium I have opted for an (hopefully) easier aquarium to upkeep.


I assume this is the 120x60x60 ND aquatics - is this one still running?


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## SRP3006 (30 Aug 2020)

alto said:


> Tank looks awesome
> 
> Before ordering more Buces, Crypts I’d wait for tank to settle a bit (you may want to add some more fast growers or replace plants that may have melted etc)
> 
> ...



Thanks Alto, much appreciated.

I was going to wait a few weeks just in case I lost some of the buce, sometimes they don't take too kindly to the dollop of glue.
With the frogbit, Hemianthus micranthemoides and rotala h'ra in there do you think I would still need some more fast growers? (honest question) 

I am in no rush to move the stock over, TBH the cherry shrimp and nerites will be the first as they shouldn't cause any problems, but the Amanos OTH are rather large beasts and will make a right mess.

Thanks for the tip on the moss (weeping), I've not used weeping moss that much in the past but it seems to be responding well already, as are the stems at the back.


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## SRP3006 (30 Aug 2020)

alto said:


> I assume this is the 120x60x60 ND aquatics - is this one still running?


No I took this tank down earlier this year, just couldn't keep on top of it.


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## SRP3006 (30 Aug 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Looks great already  Buce Theia is also my fav!


Thank you,


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## alto (30 Aug 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks Alto, much appreciated.
> 
> I was going to wait a few weeks just in case I lost some of the buce, sometimes they don't take too kindly to the dollop of glue.
> With the frogbit, Hemianthus micranthemoides and rotala h'ra in there do you think I would still need some more fast growers? (honest question)
> ...




If you can wait on the Amano (shrimp) until the carpet is mostly filled in, you’ll thank yourself 
(note feed those Amano shrimp some vegetable based food while they’re in quarantine - and keep leftover plants in there)

Cherry shrimp and nerites are a great addition, often snails can go in quite early - I’m assuming you’ve added some cycled filter media to the new filter (or even just transfer of washed soil, hardscape etc will “inoculate” the new system) - though if you’ve used any ADA Amazonia soil then, check ammonia (& nitrite) levels
(I’ve had very good experiences with Seachem Ammonia Alert)

Often people don’t want to trim moss at the start as it just looks so good as it grows but Amano (the person) was adamant about the importance of moss trimming as it establishes

Depending how the H micranthemoides and Rotala H’ra take off (and just the plant universe in general), you may be fine with these - some of my favorite stems - BUT slow like molasses compared to H zosterfolia 
(which I never keep longterm)
If the MC transitions well to submerse growth, that is also a major consumer (balancer)

Note that Buce can devastatingly melt in any new setup - even without any glue
(I suspect it’s more shipping or pre-aquarium related, though if Amazonia and completely new setup, conditions are pretty erratic so I’d not spend a fortune on Buces in that situation)


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## SRP3006 (30 Aug 2020)

alto said:


> If you can wait on the Amano (shrimp) until the carpet is mostly filled in, you’ll thank yourself
> (note feed those Amano shrimp some vegetable based food while they’re in quarantine - and keep leftover plants in there)
> 
> Cherry shrimp and nerites are a great addition, often snails can go in quite early - I’m assuming you’ve added some cycled filter media to the new filter (or even just transfer of washed soil, hardscape etc will “inoculate” the new system) - though if you’ve used any ADA Amazonia soil then, check ammonia (& nitrite) levels
> ...



Amanos will wait quite a while, they have been gorging on purple kale and cucumber from the garden. (they love the kale, but they've gone slightly darker because of it)

I left one of the oases blue sponges in the quarantine tank for a little while before I added it to the filter. I am a little cautious though as I don't want to introduce Malaysian trumpet snails, I've also added buce and anubias from holding tank. Which I'm certain will have eggs on 

I will trim the moss as soon as it starts to 'stand off' from the wood, not keen on the mess moss makes when trimming,its nearly as bad as eleocharis acicularis 

I will keep an eye on how well the plants take off, but I'm not putting h zosterfolia in there, it grows like a weed 

I used tropica soil, soil powder and jbl volcano, and some ADA power sand, daily water changes but shouldnt see the ammonia spike like amazonia.


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## Deano3 (31 Aug 2020)

Tank looks great mate looks awsome planted.

How many pots did you end up using then ? And are you dosing EI.

Thanks

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## SRP3006 (31 Aug 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Tank looks great mate looks awsome planted.
> 
> How many pots did you end up using then ? And are you dosing EI.
> 
> ...


Thanks mate, at the moment I'm dosing EI but not sure for how long. To be honest with you the dosing and ferts kinda go over my head, so making sure there is more than enough in there.


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## Ady34 (1 Sep 2020)

Looks great, really looking forward to seeing it with the sand in too. Nice job planting.


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## PARAGUAY (1 Sep 2020)

Looks good


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## Fiske (1 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> I am a little cautious though as I don't want to introduce Malaysian trumpet snails, I've also added buce and anubias from holding tank. Which I'm certain will have eggs on



Melanoides species won't leave eggs, only tiny snails


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## SRP3006 (1 Sep 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Looks great, really looking forward to seeing it with the sand in too. Nice job planting.


Thank you.


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## SRP3006 (1 Sep 2020)

PARAGUAY said:


> Looks good


Thanks.


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## SRP3006 (1 Sep 2020)

Fiske said:


> Melanoides species won't leave eggs, only tiny snails


Thanks, didn't know that, I have dosed with Gastropex just in case. MTS will make a right mess between the soil and sand.


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## Deano3 (1 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks mate, at the moment I'm dosing EI but not sure for how long. To be honest with you the dosing and ferts kinda go over my head, so making sure there is more than enough in there.


I am 100 percent with you, i will be dosing EI but feel like know nothing about the powders and what certain defficencys etc mean i am lacking etc but hopefully it all works out .

Looking great anyway mate  

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## SRP3006 (2 Sep 2020)

Sneaky little update photo, stems are doing well.

Pot of cut stems in the bottom of second photo,


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## LondonDragon (2 Sep 2020)

Looks awesome, plants really taking off, when is the sand coming in?


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## SRP3006 (3 Sep 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Looks awesome, plants really taking off, when is the sand coming in?


Thank you, not sure yet, I'm hoping I can wait for the monte carlo to bed in properly to try and hold some of the soil back, I'm not loosing much soil but I am still loosing some. Think I need some more monte carlo, I'm thinking if I put it in now it'll only look dirty quickly so waiting might be a better option.


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## SRP3006 (3 Sep 2020)

A hoard of cherry shrimp will be added on Saturday, few melting Cryptocoryne pygmea to deal with.
Have been doing 70-80% daily water changes so hopefully I'll be OK on algae front.


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## LondonDragon (3 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> few melting Cryptocoryne pygmea to deal with.


I just chopped all the leaves of mine, it is taking its time to grow, not the fastest plant in the world!


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## SRP3006 (4 Sep 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> I just chopped all the leaves of mine, it is taking its time to grow, not the fastest plant in the world!


Was hoping they wouldn't melt, being in vitro plants, couldn't bring myself to chop the leaves off when planting, just seems wrong


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## LondonDragon (4 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> couldn't bring myself to chop the leaves off when planting, just seems wrong


I know the feeling


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## dw1305 (4 Sep 2020)

Hi all, 





SRP3006 said:


> Was hoping they wouldn't melt, being in vitro plants, couldn't bring myself to chop the leaves off when planting, just seems wrong


I think you were right, I wouldn't remove the leaves from any _in vitro_ plant, they <"won't have a rhizome"> like a traditionally grown _Cryptocoryne_ would, so leaf removal is likely to leave you with just a few roots (which can't regenerate a new plant).

The <"rhizome (an underground stem)"> is the black structure in this image, and you can see the plants growing from the nodes of the rhizome .






cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (4 Sep 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I think you were right, I wouldn't remove the leaves from any _in vitro_ plant, they /crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/Botanical/foliage.html']won't have a rhizome[/URL]"> like a traditionally grown _Cryptocoryne_ would, so leaf removal is likely to leave you with just a few roots (which can't regenerate a new plant).
> 
> The /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizome']rhizome (an underground stem)[/URL]"> is the black structure in this image, and you can see the plants growing from the nodes of the rhizome .
> 
> ...


Thanks Darrel, my decision wasn't based on any facts but good to know 
Just best off letting them melt away and use a siphon as normal then to give them the best possible start. The 'normal' Cryptocoryne aren't showing any signs of melting yet, maybe they won't, we will see.


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

What's the best way to deal with some melting monte carlo?
I'm worried if I remove it then I'll remove the bits that are growing/showing signs of life?

Whats the best approach?

Cryptocoryne pygmea has melted away but that's to be expected.


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

Here's a pic.


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## alto (11 Sep 2020)

Did you add the shrimp horde?

I try to let them clean up any MC etc melt, though you can also try trimming the green stems and replanting (but often very short if TC and a challenge to plant after tank is flooded) or just push the clump deeper into the soil and hope the green bits carry on (this seems to work as long as melt has not gone too far)
Sometimes MC seems to fare much better when planted in very small discrete portions, space 1-2cm apart - if you notice the beginnings of melt when first examining the plant, increase this spacing so it can’t creep as easily between plantlets

In photo, I’d likely lift the portion that looks mostly melting, and carefully separate out the best portions (working in a bucket with water rather than dry) and replant those with some spacing

(I suspect that invitro plants are more prone to melt after warming too much during shipping - or at the shop: hot summer weather, warm shop, even warmer under display case lights)

Tank temp?


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> Did you add the shrimp horde?
> 
> I try to let them clean up an MC etc melt, though you can also try trimming the green stems and replanting (but often very short if TC and a challenge to plant after tank is flooded) or just push the clump deeper into the soil and hope the green bits carry on (this seems to work as long as melt has not gone too far)


Shrimp horde is slowly being added. They proved a little difficult to separate from the Amanos  they don't just walk into the net and the Amanos are usually first to the 'bait' for any trap.

About 30 in the at the minute and I'll try to add plenty more tomorrow.
I'll try to push the monte carlo deeper into the soil and maybe remove some of the rotting parts hopefully without damaging the good parts. As you say it's a little tricky underwater especially as it's crammed between the rocks.


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## alto (11 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Cryptocoryne pygmea has melted away but that's to be expected.


I don’t know if you removed the melting crypt leafs or let them dissociate into the water column, but it’s important to remove that organic grunge (especially if any other plants are struggling)


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## alto (11 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> especially as it's crammed between the rocks


You can also try just dumping more soil on top

As the plant melts, the stem releases between the dying bit and the green tip, and then you get tiny green portions floating - the extra soil can help anchor these bits and seems to help separate the dying from the green

Once you’ve good green growth, it’s easy to lift the plant and siphon away some soil (return soil to that perfect scape height ) and replant the healthy portion


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> I don’t know if you removed the melting crypt leafs or let them dissociate into the water column, but it’s important to remove that organic grunge (especially if any other plants are struggling)


They were really small leaves so I used a pipe slightly larger than a airline to suck away as much as possible followed by 2 80% on the bounce water changes.
All gone now, thanks to the shrimp as well.


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> You can also try just dumping more soil on top
> 
> As the plant melts, the stem releases between the dying bit and the green tip, and then you get tiny green portions floating - the extra soil can help anchor these bits and seems to help separate the dying from the green
> 
> Once you’ve good green growth, it’s easy to lift the plant and siphon away some soil (return soil to that perfect scape height ) and replant the healthy portion


I have inadvertently done this to several portions with my heavy handed blasting of the crypts with the turkey baster. Obviously trying not to loose too much soil through the gaps. I will follow your advice on this tomorrow. Thank you.


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## SRP3006 (11 Sep 2020)

@alto I will probably be adding sand and detail stones tomorrow so may add the Amanos too which should help..


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## SRP3006 (12 Sep 2020)

Two very large water changes, removal of the melting monte carlo and addition of the foreground sand.
Filter clean, prefilter was dirty but inside was spotless. Glasswork and pipe clean too. 

Harlequins, more cherry's and about 20 Amanos added.


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## LondonDragon (13 Sep 2020)

Starting to take shape and looking great already  sand makes a huge impact straight away! Maybe I should get rid of my grass!!


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## SRP3006 (13 Sep 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Starting to take shape and looking great already  sand makes a huge impact straight away! Maybe I should get rid of my grass!!


Thank you, stems are just starting to poke up over the wood and the bolbitus.

Had 6? Amanos escape through the night last night, found them crawling along the floor, returned and seem fine. 2 of them had actually crawled from the dining room all the way to the other side of the house to my daughters play room and hid behind her play kitchen!!!! I heard 
"daddy why are there shrimpys next to my kitchen" 

Also the Harlequins seem particularly skittish for fish that were unphased in the previous tank. Had to pick up one of them from the floor, jumped out whilst I was watching TV 

I've dropped the water level by about 5cm but I'm not sure what else I can do?

The cherry's have been fine, otos too. So very odd.


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## LondonDragon (13 Sep 2020)

I had a similar issue with my Amanos and the Checkered Barbs when I introduced them to the tank! Have lost 4-5 Amanos and 3 Barbs. The Ottos, SAE, Odessa and Cherry Barbs no issues! 
Hence, I had the CO2 issues as I lowered it right down to almost nothing and still happened for a couple of weeks. I have since gradually brought it back up again over the last 4 weeks, and things have been OK, so not sure either!


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## alto (13 Sep 2020)

Why the expectation that livestock won’t be impacted by a completely new and strange environs?

(Unlike fish that come from uneasy/stressful shop tanks and may appear to give a huge sigh of relief at the upgrade, your livestock are coming from a comfortable/established place)

When moving fish to a strange rimless tank, always drop water level at least 5cm - it’s such an easy accommodation 
If fish are moving from a non-CO2 environment to a CO2-enriched aquarium - increase surface agitation for the first few days to 2 weeks (you can gradually reduce surface agitation but continue to return to this overnight)
Note you might also reduce light intensity somewhat - depending on lighting - or reduce photoperiod to ~6h (not including sunrise/sunset application as long as this is limited to ~30min at each end), the decreased water column height + decrease in CO2 may have more/less impact on plants ... depending 

I often have 2 very similar (to me) established tanks running, and will occasionally move fish between tanks for various reasons, sometimes the moved fish carry on without a beat (at least to my limited senses), other times they seem ill at ease/somewhat stressed or even so apparently unhappy that I move them back to their original tank ... so this isn’t just about tanks being relatively newly established or sudden changes in CO2  or any of the water parameters we can easily measure (re test kits etc) 

Hopefully your shrimp/fish will settle in with no more life challenging incidents 
(I’d continue watching them for a couple weeks)


----------



## SRP3006 (14 Sep 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> I had a similar issue with my Amanos and the Checkered Barbs when I introduced them to the tank! Have lost 4-5 Amanos and 3 Barbs. The Ottos, SAE, Odessa and Cherry Barbs no issues!
> Hence, I had the CO2 issues as I lowered it right down to almost nothing and still happened for a couple of weeks. I have since gradually brought it back up again over the last 4 weeks, and things have been OK, so not sure either!



I haven't adjusted my co2 at all, I increased night time aeration, didn't want to put my plants on the back foot. I figured it would take the fish a few days to get used to it after being in a non co2 tank in the garage with no 'passing traffic'

I haven't found any on the floor today, so maybe adding the cucumber helped or lowering the water level. Not sure but I know they will get used to the conditions soon enough.
I am thinking of adding (in the coming weeks) a shoal fish that inhabits the upper reaches of the aquarium that isn't bothered by traffic or movements near the tank. I'm hoping it'll calm the Harlequins down a bit. 

Anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## SRP3006 (14 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> Why the expectation that livestock won’t be impacted by a completely new and strange environs?
> 
> (Unlike fish that come from uneasy/stressful shop tanks and may appear to give a huge sigh of relief at the upgrade, your livestock are coming from a comfortable/established place)
> 
> ...


Thank you for the highly detailed reply, much appreciated, my light levels are at 50% at the moment and only for a 6 hour photoperiod. I have increased surface agitation, but as you say the fish didn't like being moved. The harlequin that was struggling after jumping is swimming around as normal in the spare tank, after being upside down in the main tank.


----------



## alto (14 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> I'm hoping it'll calm the Harlequins down a bit.


How many do you have?

Are they typical T heteromorpha ?

Or T truncata?
https://www.aquarium Glaser.de/en/fish-archives/trigonostigma-truncata-2/


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## SRP3006 (14 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> How many do you have?
> 
> Are they typical T heteromorpha ?
> 
> ...



The link doesn't work but as far as I'm aware they are T heteromorpha. That's what they were sold as. A small shoal of 14


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## SRP3006 (14 Sep 2020)

Turns out the Harlequins are breeding so that could that be the cause of the erratic behaviour?


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## alto (14 Sep 2020)

Strange the link did work when first posted

https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/trigonostigma-truncata-2/

If it fails again, it’s worth using Google “Trigonostigma truncata” just to see Frank Schäfer’s photos 

(Looking back at one of Mark Evans journals, where he noticed his harlequin rasboras were not uniform in appearance, from the photos I suspect these fish were T truncata)

14 should be enough for a small shoal (though I found mine were much more active with more interesting shoaling behaviours when I kept ~25 fish)

You could easily add more in this size tank, or add other fish - I’d add another rasbora rather than cardinals


----------



## alto (14 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Turns out the Harlequins are breeding so that could that be the cause of the erratic behaviour?


What are you seeing as erratic behaviour?

Mine spawned frequently but no babies survived, fish were brilliant when spawning - and looked “joyful” rather than  “skittish”


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## SRP3006 (15 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> What are you seeing as erratic behaviour?
> 
> Mine spawned frequently but no babies survived, fish were brilliant when spawning - and looked “joyful” rather than “skittish”


In my ignorance i put it down as adjusting/struggling with the new tank and co2 concentration. Hiding between the Cryptocoryne, 'flashing' upside down frequently, and darting around the tank in pairs or solo.

I was thinking about adding more, would you add more and then another small shoal of rasbora? If so any recommendations?

Or a group such as Puntius titteya to inhabit the lower areas?


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## alto (16 Sep 2020)

Fish choice is so subjective 

I prefer less/fewer red fish, so as your harlequins are already hitting the red spectrum, I’d choose a blue or green or silver etc fish to compliment them

Some of my favourites (BUT I have soft acidic water)
M kubotai
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/microdevario-kubotai/

Sundadanio “blue” & “green” (now known to be different species)
Note these fish are quite sensitive and should be netted and transferred very carefully, spending as little time as possible exposed to air
(I find the males will croak very loudly, and then may seem almost exhausted when released into the tank - I now guide them into a container when moving between tanks etc)
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sundadanio-axelrodi/

Sundadanio margarition is the “green”
http://junglemikey.blogspot.com/2018/12/sundadanio-margarition-jewel-from.html

Sundadanio “red” - if you want to keep going red 
https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/sundadanio-retiarius-2/

Michael Lo’s photo shows the iridescence these fish develop as they mature, and settle (happily)
Both M. kubotai and Sundadanio sp. are active throughout the tank, and competing males will spar and display for female attention
They also seem to have a higher oxygen requirement so not really suited to a high CO2 levels (30ppm and higher)

@Sammy Islam has Sawbwa resplendens and mentions their activity in a recent post, these are definitely more hardy than the above sp.
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/sawbwa-resplendens/


Black phantoms are always a favourite, they are readily available and tend to be easy keepers that will occupy all areas of the tank, and are usually very forward/relaxed

Sometimes I just scroll through Aquarium Glaser fish posts for ideas - many aren’t available locally but Frank Schäfer photos are always worth looking
eg, the dwarf glass fish
Parambassis lala
https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/parambassis-lala-2/

Gymnochanda ploegi
https://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/gymnochanda-ploegi-2/


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## alto (16 Sep 2020)

Duplicate post


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## SRP3006 (17 Sep 2020)

Thank you @alto, really interesting fish suggestions. Not ones I've seen or heard of before. I would be worried about my moderately hard water (160ppm), and also I'm guessing they would mostly if not all be wild specimens, which again just guessing could be very skittish in the aquarium within my very active dining room/kitchen (kids) and may end up with more on the floor than in the tank. 

The Asian rummynose I have considered a few times as they look like really interesting fish and a great contrast to the Harlequins.

With regards to Black phantoms, would they not be a possible problem with the associated nipping and slight aggression? Especially with shrimp? As they are particularly handsome fish.


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## SRP3006 (17 Sep 2020)

How and when would you guys recommend I start ramping up my lights? They are on 50% at the moment and have been for about 3 weeks now.


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## Jayefc1 (17 Sep 2020)

Dont know how ive missed your updates mate  I'd go 5% a week from now  on till there at 100 % mate 
Just a thought on fish ivee got 30 harlequins in my 1200 and there shoaling really well I'm now trying to decide what others to add and was thinking M kubotai  to compliment the blue  and red i do love the green of them hows the mc coming along has it recovered between the rock ?


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## alto (17 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> With regards to Black phantoms, would they not be a possible problem with the associated nipping and slight aggression? Especially with shrimp?


I’ve never had issue with black phantom aggression (though the red phantoms can be rather more belligerent- they are different species rather than just color variants despite the common name implication)

It’s not unusual to hear of more aggression issues with long time tank bred stock vs the wild stock (body shape often changes as well), so it’s possible your local black phantoms may have developed more of a “rep”

One of my favourite journals @Chris Jackson ... starring ... black phantoms 

*Island Shore - 60 x 30 x 45 Rock, grass and hopefully class!*
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/island-shore-60-x-30-x-45-rock-grass-and-hopefully-class.34254/


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## SRP3006 (18 Sep 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Dont know how ive missed your updates mate I'd go 5% a week from now on till there at 100 % mate
> Just a thought on fish ivee got 30 harlequins in my 1200 and there shoaling really well I'm now trying to decide what others to add and was thinking M kubotai to compliment the blue and red i do love the green of them hows the mc coming along has it recovered between the rock ?


Thanks Jay, I will add some more Harlequins to help calm them. The mc has pretty much melted away, few strands left. Not sure why it's melted TBH, but I have 2 more pots that I'm planning on using.


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## SRP3006 (18 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> I’ve never had issue with black phantom aggression (though the red phantoms can be rather more belligerent- they are different species rather than just color variants despite the common name implication)
> 
> It’s not unusual to hear of more aggression issues with long time tank bred stock vs the wild stock (body shape often changes as well), so it’s possible your local black phantoms may have developed more of a “rep”
> 
> ...


Thank you, I will look into them, my LFS has them and seem to be a relatively decent supplier. Your knowledge of aquarium fish really is quite impressive.


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## Jayefc1 (18 Sep 2020)

Guess with the mc its trial and error @Geoffrey Rea has lovely rock covered mc in his 1200


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## SRP3006 (18 Sep 2020)

Yea I need to re-read his journal, can't remember if he glued it to the rock. I think my problem was that it kept getting disturbed and pushed back between the rocks.


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## alto (19 Sep 2020)

Just plant the MC in soil close to rocks and encourage it to overgrow in that direction, or once you’ve some MC established in other areas of your tank, cut up and lift portions and transplant to the rock crevice


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## SRP3006 (21 Sep 2020)

Top view of the stems. Taking shape I think. First real time growing stems like this.


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## Deano3 (21 Sep 2020)

Looking very healthy mate

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## SRP3006 (22 Sep 2020)

Guys is there anything I can do to stop buce melt. My bucephalandra theia has literally started melting, think it started on Saturday. Melting rather fast and I have quite a few in there. Can I help it?


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## LondonDragon (23 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Can I help it?


Not sure you can do anything about, I had that issue with my Anubias a few melted almost by half, the remainder has grown fine since. Just adjusting to your conditions, my buces did not melt though.


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## SRP3006 (23 Sep 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Not sure you can do anything about, I had that issue with my Anubias a few melted almost by half, the remainder has grown fine since. Just adjusting to your conditions, my buces did not melt though.


Thanks, I'm more worried it's something I'm doing and whether I should replace them? Ive upped water changes during to remove excess waste.


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## LondonDragon (23 Sep 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks, I'm more worried it's something I'm doing and whether I should replace them? Ive upped water changes during to remove excess waste.


Doubt you can do much really, like I couldn't do much about my anubias, just ensure you have enough CO2 and nutrients, and they will eventually sort themselves out, you will just lose some leaves hopefully.


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## SRP3006 (23 Sep 2020)

Two have gone right back to the rhizome so Im not holding my breath that they will recover. Obviously it has to be the slowest growing plant in the tank that has to melt


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## Jayefc1 (23 Sep 2020)

From what I've seen it happens quite a bit with no explanation some people recommend not putting them.in till the tank matures i had 3 different variation of anubis melt in my 60p after 3 weeks when they seemed to be doing just fine but all the buces where ok guess its the luck of the draw


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## SRP3006 (23 Sep 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> From what I've seen it happens quite a bit with no explanation some people recommend not putting them.in till the tank matures i had 3 different variation of anubis melt in my 60p after 3 weeks when they seemed to be doing just fine but all the buces where ok guess its the luck of the draw


In one way its good to know its not me doing something wrong. I'm guessing buce are completely lost when they start to melt? As in nothing will grow back from the rhizome.


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## Jayefc1 (23 Sep 2020)

It might do just watch the rhizome it can also rot quickly


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

Don't know if I have an issue with my H'ra? Can anybody see the slightly twisted leaves and dark spots/marks on a few of the leaves. The Hemianthus micranthemoides seems to be fine with no signs or twisted leaves. Can anybody help? Could it be fert related or co2? 









Reading online there's quite a few threads discussing this problem.


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## dw1305 (2 Oct 2020)

Hi all,
Have a look at this < _Rotala rotundifolia">?_

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

Thanks Darrel, looking through that thread seems to point towards a iron deficiency, I haven't got any pale leaves that I've noticed and my water isn't particularly hard (150-170ppm depending on time of year).
All my anubias, Cryptocoryne and especially my frogbit seem fine. I'm guessing the frogbit would show up first if I was iron deficient?


Pic looks like the leaves are yellowing but I assure you that is the light adjustment on my phone.


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## dw1305 (2 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





SRP3006 said:


> I'm guessing the frogbit would show up first if I was iron deficient?


It wouldn't necessarily show up on the Frogbit first (Frogbit is fine in hard water), but it would allow you to discount CO2. _Rotala_ species look particularly prone to showing iron induced chlorosis, a bit like a _Rhododendron_ would do terrestrially in limy soil.

I think your Frogbit possibly is beginning to show signs of iron deficiency, the new leaves look smaller and paler than the older leaves?

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

If its any help with water parameters I'm in Bridgwater in Somerset, I'm currently dosing 0.7ppm per week via an all in fert diy fert (London dragons recipe I can't take the credit)
I don't think the frogbit is yellowing, new leaves are smaller but I don't think they are yellow (I'll look tomorrow with lights on so I don't spook the inhabitants)
Would the rotala be one of the first sp to show iron problems then?

I'll try to up my dose of iron, will have to look into it being an AIO mix I'm not sure what that entails.


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## dw1305 (2 Oct 2020)

Hi all,





SRP3006 said:


> I'm in Bridgwater in Somerset


That is Wessex Water, but from a reservoir, rather than an aquifer, so probably "moderately hard", but not really hard like it would be more towards Bristol.





SRP3006 said:


> Would the rotala be one of the first sp to show iron problems then?


It looks like _Rotala rotundifolia_ is a <"good "canary">. I don't know exactly what species Rotala Vietnam H'ra is but <"Tropica suggests that it might be a form of _R. rotundifolia_">.





SRP3006 said:


> I'll try to up my dose of iron


It might depend on the chelator, you can probably pick up <"Chempak Sequestered Iron"> cheaply at the moment <"in Wilko's etc.">?

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

I'm guessing our water comes from nearby Durleigh resorvoir, Wessex water run it.
Would something like this work then? https://www.wilko.com/en-uk/wilko-sulphate-of-iron-15kg/p/0300375
Which is quite handy as my better half works there anyway 

My iron is in the Apfuk chelated micro mix, which is mixed with all the macros and ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate.


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## dw1305 (2 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





SRP3006 said:


> Would something like this work then?


No, unfortunately  it needs to be "chelated", ideally with FeDTPA or FeEDDHA. <"Iron is really difficult"> to keep in solution above pH 7.

I'll add in @Zeus.

cheers Darrel


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, No, unfortunately it needs to be "chelated", ideally with FeDTPA or FeEDDHA. /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/fert-calculator-v1-8-currently-no-download-as-next-version-on-its-way.60034/page-9#post-608537']Iron is really"> difficult[/URL] to keep in solution above pH 7.
> 
> I'll add in @Zeus.
> 
> cheers Darrel


My ph sits at about 7.3 outside of the photoperiod/co2 injection (1300-1900 and 0900-1730 respectively) inside those hours its below 7. Would those values cause me to have problems with iron? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to fully understand that's all. Ferts and deficiencies are probably the area I understand the least so I appreciate your help. 

Just to test the iron theory I can buy a premade/premixed iron supplement from seachem, tropica, ada etc.


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## Zeus. (2 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> My ph sits at about 7.3 outside of the photoperiod/co2 injection (1300-1900 and 0900-1730 respectively) inside those hours its below 7



What time do you normally dose your micro mix ? I would aim for lights on when the pH is below 7.0


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## SRP3006 (2 Oct 2020)

The all in one fert is automatically dosed at midday with the lights coming on at 1300, ph sits at about 6.7 when it's dosed.

Unless the iron is reacting with the phosphate in the AIO,


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## Zeus. (2 Oct 2020)

Which auto doser are you using ? I have very recently started dosing much more frequently my DIY AIO fert. I use to dose 10ml x7 per week so 70ml a week . I'm now dosing 70ml week in many doses split up in 5mins time intervals between doses

*Timing of Ei dosing - *which is just using the dilution principle to avoid the possible interactions between Fe and PO4 -very very little and very very often


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## Luketendo (3 Oct 2020)

That Rotala doesn't look too bad to me but I agree that there could be an iron defiency. I have had this before but more severely and iron fixed it straight away.


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Which auto doser are you using ? I have very recently started dosing much more frequently my DIY AIO fert. I use to dose 10ml x7 per week so 70ml a week . I'm now dosing 70ml week in many doses split up in 5mins time intervals between doses
> 
> *Timing of Ei dosing - *which is just using the dilution principle to avoid the possible interactions between Fe and PO4 -very very little and very very often


I'm using a jebao doser, which doses 60ml once a day at midday. Just wondering if it could have been the way I mixed up the ferts?
I cannot remember if I added the ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate before the rest of the salts or after. If I had added the salts before lowering the ph would the iron have reacted with the phosphate at the higher pH? Even in the short time it took for me to mix the ferts?

I can quite simply go back to dosing on alternate days, or try dosing a sperate iron supplement


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## Zeus. (3 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> I cannot remember if I added the ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate before the rest of the salts or after.



A simple error makes all the differance  

There is no doubt that AIO fertilizers work as the commercial ones have been used for years.



SRP3006 said:


> I can quite simply go back to dosing on alternate days, or try dosing a sperate iron supplement



Or just make a fresh AIO solution - always good to get to the 'root' cause of the problem.

Getting Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA will resolve the issue as might Macro/Micro dosing also. But if its down to adding the salts before adding the acidifiers to the AIO mix I would try that first. Its not like it cost much to make a fresh batch esp if your not using CSM+B as a trace.


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

So a simple mistake like that could have caused the issues with my rotala?
Thank you @dw1305 @Zeus for helping me sort this out.
I'm guessing when I mix a new batch I should see improvements reasonably quickly in a fast grower like rotala sp?

When the new fert calculator is ready I plan on tweaking things a little anyway/experimenting a little so I can learn.


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

When the phosphate and iron react is it just the iron that becomes unusable or both the phosphate and iron?


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## dw1305 (3 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





SRP3006 said:


> When the phosphate and iron react is it just the iron that becomes unusable or both the phosphate and iron?


Both, so Fe+++ and PO4--- form the insoluble ferric (iron III) phosphate,  FePO4. Usually you would run out of Fe+++ ions before you run out of PO4--- ions.

When you have <"phosphate stripping" at a waste water plant"> they continually add ferric chloride (FeCl3) to the waste stream to generate the Fe+++ ions which strip the PO4--- from the water column and precipitate out the insoluble FePO4.

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2020)

This is seriously complicated to me  i really need to learn more about ferts and what abbreviations are and what lack of nutrients cause.

I literally purchased the Apfuk starter kit and dose alternate days.

Can i make a AIO solution from these elements ? Sorry to hijack mate but what exactly are you dosing etc ?

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## Zeus. (3 Oct 2020)

Deano3 said:


> This is seriously complicated to me  i really need to learn more about ferts and what abbreviations are and what lack of nutrients cause.
> 
> I literally purchased the Apfuk starter kit and dose alternate days.
> 
> ...



Yes, doesnt matter where the Anions and Cations come from as plants don't read the labels    just need some Potassium sorbate and Ascorbic Acid (vit C) - both cheap as chips on ebay


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Both, so Fe+++ and PO4--- form the insoluble ferric (iron III) phosphate, FePO4. Usually you would run out of Fe+++ ions before you run out of PO4--- ions.
> 
> When you have /campaign.veoliawatertechnologies.co.uk/phosphorus-removal?']phosphate stripping" at a waste water plant[/URL]"> they continually add ferric chloride (FeCl3) to the waste stream to generate the Fe+++ ions which strip the PO4--- from the water column and precipitate out the insoluble FePO4.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks Darrel, I think I understand that enough, chemistry wasnt/isn't my subject. Never needed it to drive HGV's 
At least we've got to the bottom of it and I should be OK from now on.


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

Deano3 said:


> This is seriously complicated to me  i really need to learn more about ferts and what abbreviations are and what lack of nutrients cause.
> 
> I literally purchased the Apfuk starter kit and dose alternate days.
> 
> ...


I still have the starter kit from apfuk I've just had to buy so K2S04 as the kit doesn't have it. That's so I can reduce the nitrate in the water column without reducing the phosphate. Mgso4 (epsom salt) is much cheaper in bulk in places like ebay for example.


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Yes, doesnt matter where the Anions and Cations come from as plants don't read the labels  just need some Potassium sorbate and Ascorbic Acid (vit C) - both cheap as chips on ebay


Bought both of them on ebay, the ascorbic acid (vit c) is really cheap as body builders use the stuff.


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## Jayefc1 (3 Oct 2020)

I buy mine from home bargains Epson salts just make sure it has no additives


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## Zeus. (3 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> K2S04



again really cheap from ebay - just get reasonable quality


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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

That's what's nice about DIY ferts, cheap as chips really. As long as you turn your noggin on when making them


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## Deano3 (3 Oct 2020)

I actually purchased K2so4 from APFUK so think tk make a AIO all i will need is absorbic acid what i take it is VIT C .

I will have to get some from ebay then make a post i think thanks guys 

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## SRP3006 (3 Oct 2020)

Deano3 said:


> I actually purchased K2so4 from APFUK so think tk make a AIO all i will need is absorbic acid what i take it is VIT C .
> 
> I will have to get some from ebay then make a post i think thanks guys
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


You will need some potassium sorbate too which is basically a mould inhibitor.


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## SRP3006 (7 Oct 2020)

Tidied up the sand, scrubbed a few rocks, trimmed the moss and removed a lot of frogbit. Plugged a few more holes that I've missed in the wall, it seems I have missed a few 
Stems have picked up since my mistake with the ferts, grown rather fast in the past week. Added some pebbles covered in some cracking fissidens from @Filip Krupa 
Harlequins are now at 30 and I've added 10 cherry barbs. 3 males 7 females, which have settled in well. 







Also the buce that melted are growing new buds and small leaves so I'm hoping they are coming back.


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## Wookii (7 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Tidied up the sand, scrubbed a few rocks, trimmed the moss and removed a lot of frogbit. Plugged a few more holes that I've missed in the wall, it seems I have missed a few
> Stems have picked up since my mistake with the ferts, grown rather fast in the past week. Added some pebbles covered in some cracking fissidens from @Filip Krupa
> Harlequins are now at 30 and I've added 10 cherry barbs. 3 males 7 females, which have settled in well.
> 
> ...



Looking really great! I do love the island style layout, it always seems to create a greater sense of space.


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## Ady34 (7 Oct 2020)

Looking great, really crisp and a good shape.
Cheerio,


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## SRP3006 (7 Oct 2020)

Wookii said:


> Looking really great! I do love the island style layout, it always seems to create a greater sense of space.


Thank you, I'm enjoying this tank quite a lot. Maintenance is a pleasure it's so easy. (well, not keen on the sand at the minute) 

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


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## SRP3006 (7 Oct 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Looking great, really crisp and a good shape.
> Cheerio,


Thank you, moss is slowly spreading up the manzi and hopefully the hygrophila will grow emersed at some point. 

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


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## Jayefc1 (7 Oct 2020)

Looking good sam hopefully it will push on a little now mate


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## Deano3 (7 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thank you, moss is slowly spreading up the manzi and hopefully the hygrophila will grow emersed at some point.
> 
> Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


Looks great mate  does the moss just slowly spread as i was unsure of this as want to keep tight in wood ? 

Dean

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## SRP3006 (7 Oct 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Looks great mate  does the moss just slowly spread as i was unsure of this as want to keep tight in wood ?
> 
> Dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thanks Dean, I think so yes, if not spread then it'll branch out and I can continue to tie it down. I've been a bit rough with the trimming by ripping pieces off with my hands that don't sit flush to the wood in the hope it'll go horizontal. 

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## ChrisD80 (8 Oct 2020)

Looking super crisp and clean. Can you tell me what the green stem plant is in the third pic please? Sorry if it’s mentioned in an earlier post. Thanks Chris 


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## Jayefc1 (8 Oct 2020)

I think the plant in the 3rd pic is the Hemianthus micranthemoides im sure @SRP3006 will confirm this if I'm correct


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## SRP3006 (8 Oct 2020)

ChrisD80 said:


> Looking super crisp and clean. Can you tell me what the green stem plant is in the third pic please? Sorry if it’s mentioned in an earlier post. Thanks Chris
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Chris, as @Jayefc1 says it's hemianthus micranthemoides a new stem for me but I'm liking it so far.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Oct 2020)

It grows like a weed mate but a really nice fine stem nice to shape and a great colour


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## ChrisD80 (8 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Thanks Chris, as @Jayefc1 says it's hemianthus micranthemoides a new stem for me but I'm liking it so far.



Thanks both, looks really nice.
I bought some HZ thinking it might look like this but so far it’s much larger leaved and more leggy. I do have relatively low light though so may be part of the problem.
Will look into getting some Hemianthus micranthemoides and giving it a go
Cheers
Chris 


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## Jayefc1 (8 Oct 2020)

Im trying to grow it in to my mc carpet with high light to get it to stay low it seems to be working kind off lol


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## Jayefc1 (19 Oct 2020)

Hi Sam how's the tank coming along mate


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## SRP3006 (21 Oct 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Hi Sam how's the tank coming along mate


Hi Jay, coming along OK I think, to be honest I've taken my foot off the gas with all the issues with the fish, been doing daily (when I can) water changes to try and sort that problem. In the meantime I've grown a little unwanted bba on the edges of my anubias, due to the gas not being high enough after tweaking the lights.
It's just on the anubias at the moment so turned up the gas gave the filter a clean and hopefully nip it in the bud.

Lights are on 75% now, I've added a little Hairgrass to the front which is spreading nicely, the monte carlo is finally playing ball and spreading from the tiniest of pieces in several places around the foreground. I've added some rotala orange juice to the back that I had spare, just to see what I think.
Crypts are doing great, really love those plants, the fissidens attached to the small rocks is doing well (if not a magnet for muck)
Pinnatifida is growing well for me in this scape, struggled with it before TBH, I have been snapping bits off it here and there when I walk past and its branching out and staying small.

Soil is still a pain, not sure if I've missed loads of holes in the rock work or my Amanos are sadists. Changed the sand again, after all it is a tiny bit going back in.

All in all I'm enjoying it, ferts are working nicely now, the H'ra needs a trim just gotta man myself up to hacking it about with poor trimming skills


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## Deano3 (21 Oct 2020)

Wow looking excellent mate great growth

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## Jayefc1 (22 Oct 2020)

Looking really nice mate does need a trim though to get the bushy lush thick growth trim about 2 3rds down the stem so its below the rock line you can just chop it all in one go as long as your scissors are sharp the hemianthus micranthemoides i just trim to a even hight it grows back so fast you will be able to get a nice shape when it start to sprout all the new shoots


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## SRP3006 (22 Oct 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looking really nice mate does need a trim though to get the bushy lush thick growth trim about 2 3rds down the stem so its below the rock line you can just chop it all in one go as long as your scissors are sharp the hemianthus micranthemoides i just trim to a even hight it grows back so fast you will be able to get a nice shape when it start to sprout all the new shoots


Cut it back that low? Do I replant the tops too? Really new to stems. I thought I needed to leave them until they reached the surface TBH.


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## Jayefc1 (22 Oct 2020)

What you have to remember is the new growth will be very small and you want it hidden behind the rocks push the cuttings into the cut stems again to match the hight


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## SRP3006 (22 Oct 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> What you have to remember is the new growth will be very small and you want it hidden behind the rocks push the cuttings into the cut stems again to match the hight


Sorry Jay you've lost me


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## Jayefc1 (22 Oct 2020)

When you trim it the new shoot from the nods will be quiet small and will need to grow again so they will be little shoots for a while and that isn't what you want visible cause each time you trim it will do this thats how you get it thick and lush lookin each time you trim one plant turns in to 2 the 4 then then 8 and so on


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## SRP3006 (22 Oct 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> When you trim it the new shoot from the nods will be quiet small and will need to grow again so they will be little shoots for a while and that isn't what you want visible cause each time you trim it will do this thats how you get it thick and lush lookin each time you trim one plant turns in to 2 the 4 then then 8 and so on


Thanks Jay, I'll give it a good proper trim tomorrow. It's gonna completely disappear behind the wood for a while.


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## Jayefc1 (22 Oct 2020)

Cut your trimmings down to the top 3rd and push them.back in to the plant mass it will help to fill out the stems


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## RudeDogg1 (23 Oct 2020)

What is that plant at the back that has leafs like a lil star?


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## SRP3006 (23 Oct 2020)

RudeDogg1 said:


> What is that plant at the back that has leafs like a lil star?


Hemianthus micranthemoides, the green one I'm guessing?


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## Artichoke (23 Oct 2020)

Really beautiful scape, like a jungle island 💚


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## RudeDogg1 (23 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Hemianthus micranthemoides, the green one I'm guessing?



This one pretty, sure it’s not HM cuz I’ve just recieved some which looks nothing like that lol.


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## SRP3006 (23 Oct 2020)

RudeDogg1 said:


> This one pretty, sure it’s not HM cuz I’ve just recieved some which looks nothing like that lol.


Yep it's that stem exactly, tropica 1 2 grow.


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## RudeDogg1 (23 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Yep it's that stem exactly, tropica 1 2 grow.



Surprising how different it looks when it’s little, thanks


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## SRP3006 (23 Oct 2020)

RudeDogg1 said:


> Surprising how different it looks when it’s little, thanks


Is your plant smaller now or mine? Just curious.


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## RudeDogg1 (23 Oct 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Is your plant smaller now or mine? Just curious.



Mine


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## SRP3006 (6 Nov 2020)

Little pic of my new favourite stem before a trim


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## Jayefc1 (6 Nov 2020)

Is that the hra sam


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## SRP3006 (6 Nov 2020)

Yes Jay.


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## Jayefc1 (6 Nov 2020)

Looking good mate nice growth


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## SRP3006 (12 Nov 2020)

My 30 tangerine tigers arrived safe and sound in the post, hoping they colour up nicely. 



Seem to be settling in fine, not that I can see many


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> My 30 tangerine tigers arrived safe and sound in the post, hoping they colour up nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> Seem to be settling in fine, not that I can see many


I added 20 bloody marys today think iv seen 1 hoping they breed quickly 

I am hoping mine stay away from the inlet aswel

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## SRP3006 (12 Nov 2020)

Deano3 said:


> I added 20 bloody marys today think iv seen 1 hoping they breed quickly
> 
> I am hoping mine stay away from the inlet aswel
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


I'm hoping mine stay away from the cories, they'll happily breed in the filter if they get sucked in.


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## Jayefc1 (13 Nov 2020)

Hows the shrimps doing mate


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## SRP3006 (14 Nov 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Hows the shrimps doing mate


I managed to count 8 of them last night after a lot of looking, the ones I saw are doing fine, as for the ones I can't see I can only hope  30 of them put in, some very small mind, I imagine they're hiding out in the stems,


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## Jayefc1 (14 Nov 2020)

Yeah I bet they are there pretty shrimps


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## SRP3006 (14 Nov 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Yeah I bet they are there pretty shrimps


I'll try and grab a few pics later but my photo skills aren't the best


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## SRP3006 (18 Nov 2020)

Update time.
Big maintenance session the weekend and a small tidy up today. Think I scalped the moss a little too much on the wood unintentionally, but it was starting to die underneath so glad I did. H'ra and micranthemoides trimmed, pinnatifida trimmed back (even though I always seem to miss a few stems )
Sand was siphoned out and left for a few days to let the nerites and otos tidy it up.
Rocks scrubbed a little, filter given a really good clean.

Seems to be ticking along OK, small amount of bba and gsa on the tips of the buce and anubias which I've been spot treating. 












Ignore the fork, shrimp had just been fed 

I like the Hemianthus micranthemoides but I'm curious if it will grow much higher? Seems to want to stay low.


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## SRP3006 (19 Nov 2020)

Coloured up nicely. Quite brave little things, stealing food from the large amano females.


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## Jayefc1 (19 Nov 2020)

He is brave tanks looking great mate the moss will reward you for its close trim


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## Conort2 (19 Nov 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> Coloured up nicely. Quite brave little things, stealing food from the large amano females.


The tangerine tigers get to a pretty decent size and become quite fearless lol. Tank is looking great!

cheers


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## Deano3 (20 Nov 2020)

Tank is looking great and the shrimp coming on great, i need to trim my moss ass its getting very thick so think i will trim and glue on further down 

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## SRP3006 (21 Nov 2020)

Thanks guys, I'm really enjoying this tank.


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## SRP3006 (25 Nov 2020)

Can anyone help with stocking plans, after loosing all my Harlequins due to sickness. I'm now ready to restock my tank, it currently has 8 panda cories and a boat load of shrimp (which I don't want to be eaten)

I'm looking at one of the variations of neon, either black, green or the 'standard' unless someone has any recommendations? I was going for microdevario kubotai but have ruled them out due to reports of them jumping and my living room can be 'busy' 

Would a shoal of 35 be OK in my footprint? Could I go larger? Like the idea of one large shoal but don't want to push the boundaries and make it look overcrowded.


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## Siege (25 Nov 2020)

Green neons or ember tetras would look nice. 35 would be a nice number I think.


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## Wolf6 (25 Nov 2020)

Someone on this forum had ruby barbs, those were fun and beautiful. They are a bit bigger though, so 35 would be a bit much I think. Green neon tetra (simulans) is pretty and extremely long lived, I've still got 4 in I got in 2015, I used to have 20 and I loved their group behaviour, much tighter then regular neons or kardinals. 35 in this tank would look great. If you're unsure about numbers start with 25 first, add the final 10 later?


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## SRP3006 (25 Nov 2020)

Green neons would look great I think, I think 35 of these tiny fish would still disappear to a certain degree. Ember tetras are an option, not sure why I was avoiding red fish, maybe due to the cherries.
Would green neons be OK in my moderately hard (160ppm) tap water? And at 23 degrees celcius? As I know a large amount of the greens are wild caught.

Also I don't want any known jumpers, the Amanos gave me a headache at tank startup 

The barbs are nice but as you slightly larger and more of a threat to my shrimp.


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## Wolf6 (25 Nov 2020)

I've always had the greens in an open top, no jumpers in all those years  Always had temperature around 23 as well, dont know about the hardness. Embers are tiny, those would require an even bigger group to make an impact  Fun and lively fish though, I recently got 10 for my 50l nano.


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## CooKieS (25 Nov 2020)

Got 12 simulans for my 80cm tank last week and they are fantastic, getting 8 more next week. They blend perfectly with the Aquascape and that blue body stripe is beautiful : 




btw my tank is at 22 degrees in winter.


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## PARAGUAY (25 Nov 2020)

How about Glowlights and Black Neons both very hardy and look very good in the numbers you suggest


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## Deano3 (25 Nov 2020)

I had green neons in my optop at around 22 degrees and were stunning fish i want more  after loosing some of my rummy nose tetras i would love some greens bit dont want to mix my shoul and have differnt types but lobe the green neon tetras.

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## SRP3006 (26 Nov 2020)

Thanks guys, made my mind up then. Green neons it is, I think 35 would be a good number,

@CooKieS that is a stunning picture, thanks


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## SRP3006 (13 Dec 2020)

Little update. Sand siphoned out and replaced, H'ra and pinnatifida trimmed. Gave the rocks a little scrub, removed the messy plants in the foreground. Had some Hairgrass, hydrocotyle and marsilea from the other tank that was looking really unorganised. Replaced with some blyxa japonica, that will hopefully create some movement and Cryptocoryne undulatus.

Added some more buce theia, some on the wood and some jammed between foreground rocks.
Little bba on the edges of old leaves on anubias and a small amount of gsa on the foreground anubias. Neither are spreading and new leaves are clean so looks to be OK. 

Going to try and tweak my ferts this week, to tease some more colour out of the H'ra and pinnatifida.

Soil is still driving me mad as it gets onto the sand within what seems like seconds , coming up on 3.5months now. Lights at 100% and co2 seems to be fine.

Sometime soon I might actually put a few tetra in


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## Deano3 (13 Dec 2020)

That looks so good mate very healthy and great colours,love this scape.

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## Jayefc1 (13 Dec 2020)

Wow really nice mate agreed about teasing the colours out looks clean and Healthy you will get use to the sand or try my trick it does work and takes 5 mins a day


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## SRP3006 (3 Jan 2021)

Happy new year all,
Stocked the tank with 30 WCMM yesterday. Never kept this species before and I'm quite pleased so far. They have coloured up reasonably well and quite quickly, they've not noticed the co2 infusion and most importantly they haven't been phased by my 4 year old dancing like a ballerina in front of them 

I'm also 4 days into my new ferts, I've removed the nitrate from my ferts and purely relying on my water changes, lights are at 100%, co2 profile is good so I thought I'd try to get some colour out of the H'ra and pinnatifida.


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## Jayefc1 (3 Jan 2021)

Lovely looking fish i really.like them there not at all skittish and very active some full tank shots would be nice 😉


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## SRP3006 (3 Jan 2021)

Jayefc1 said:


> Lovely looking fish i really.like them there not at all skittish and very active some full tank shots would be nice


Full tank shots will have to wait mate , sand needs changing as the cories have had a field day when I fed them grindal worms. Soil all over the place. Needs a tidy, didn't have a great deal of time over Christmas. Moss needs a little trim too.


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## Jayefc1 (3 Jan 2021)

Lol ok mate


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## SRP3006 (6 Jan 2021)

Sand siphoned out, good clean out, removed the fissidens off the stones as it attracts crud like a magnet. Little scrub of a few stones, not all of them as the otos seem to like grazing on it.
The blyxa japonica seems to be doing well, growing more bushy by the day. Monte carlo is finally staying put and growing after I applied what felt like a whole tube of superglue to it. My Amanos like to did it up so bits are forever ending up in the skimmer.
Not sure if Im getting any colour coming through on my H'ra or pinnatifida as yet,

The white clouds have settled in nicely with the exception of one jumper, and they have had the added bonus of making the 15 celestial pearl danios less shy. They would constantly hide in amongst the H'ra, whereas now they seem to be out swimming with the minnows and competing with them for food.

Ignore the dirty pipes they are due for a change.


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## Paulthewitt (7 Jan 2021)

Reminds me in some ways of George farmers discus tank (not a bad thing!)


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## SRP3006 (16 Jan 2021)

Water change and a little thin out of the pinnatifida, found a few buce in the middle of all the stems I'd forgot I'd put there. Quite happy growing in the mess of stems


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## SRP3006 (7 Feb 2021)

Ticking along nicely. Suffered a little with a small amount of bba on the buce and anubias, due to me having a few manic days at work and taking my eye off the ball. (co2 tank ran out) 
All the stock have settled in nicely, love the characters of the wcmm.
Scalped the H'ra back quite hard last weekend, bit harder than I wanted too TBH, and added some rotala orange juice from @Wookii. Also had to steal some rotala hra from the smaller tank as I had Scalped it too much. Growing back nicely though.
Changed ferts to something a bit leaner to hopefully get some nice colours out of the new growth and slow the stems slightly.

Sand has been siphoned out again, when I rescape this tank I will try much harder to plug all the holes.  Added some dooa gravel for some texture too.
When the monte carlo has grown enough I will remove the large anubias from the front and replace with mc.


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## Deano3 (8 Feb 2021)

Looks great, evolved beautifully 

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## SRP3006 (21 Feb 2021)

My 4 year old daughter is starting to take more and more of an interest in the tank and fish, well especially shrimp which she thinks are crazy 😂. 
So I'm trying to keep her interested as much as I can with simple and fun tasks such as feeding and checking the fish and other bits and bobs, I've always believed it's priceless for kids to be close to nature throughout their childhood. Especially now when she's not really leaving the house 😔 
She's loving being involved and is quite concerned that the panda cories get a fair share of the daphnia. 😂


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## LondonDragon (21 Feb 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> So I'm trying to keep her interested as much as I can with simple and fun tasks such as feeding and checking the fish and other bits and bobs, I've always believed it's priceless for kids to be close to nature throughout their childhood. Especially now when she's not really leaving the house


That is awesome  and the tank is coming along nicely too


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## SRP3006 (22 Feb 2021)

LondonDragon said:


> That is awesome  and the tank is coming along nicely too


Thank you Paulo, just struggling with keeping the sand clean for more than 24hrs 😬


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## LondonDragon (22 Feb 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> Thank you Paulo, just struggling with keeping the sand clean for more than 24hrs 😬


I did buy sand for mine and in the end opted not to use it and carpet it instead! I knew that was going to be hard work lol


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## Deano3 (22 Feb 2021)

Looks great and my daughter is the same , son isnt so bothered but daughter loved feeding the fish.

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## SRP3006 (22 Feb 2021)

LondonDragon said:


> I did buy sand for mine and in the end opted not to use it and carpet it instead! I knew that was going to be hard work lol


Think I'll be going for a scape with carpet next time, just to change things up. Mind you I have Cory's and wouldn't be fair to not give them sand 🤔


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## SRP3006 (22 Feb 2021)

Deano3 said:


> Looks great and my daughter is the same , son isnt so bothered but daughter loved feeding the fish.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thanks Dean, I'm sure she'll grow out of it or get bored at some point, probably as a teenager lol, only time will tell.


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## SRP3006 (14 Mar 2021)

6.5 month update. I'm enjoying this scape very much, enjoying the maintenance weekly or twice weekly recently. Fish seem to be happy and plants are ticking along nicely.
Anyway I received my new chihiros vivid and hanging brackets. Nice decent brackets in my opinion, seem very well made. Hung the light 30cm from the waters surface which seems to give even spread. It's nice to be able to put my hand in the tank without constantly knocking the light off. 🤦‍♂️
Light has been set to about 60% and I like the colours so far.

All my buce have come out in flower, and I have reduced nitrates slightly to try and tease some red out of the pinnatifida and H'ra
Another sand change and scrub of the rocks.


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## Deano3 (15 Mar 2021)

I need to try get the reds to pop on my setup, waiting till the kitchen finished then can ramp up lights as will have a bit more spare time, thats looking great and matured 

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## SRP3006 (2 May 2021)

8 months now. Enjoying this tank. Have stopped messing about with my ferts, tried to move to a lean dosing approach but it effected my stems too much and stopped filling in after trimming. So I've switched back to EI dosing and will try to use the light to tease some red from the plants. Currently running it on 65% red to 55% green and blue. 
I've removed all the pinnatifida from the left hand branch as found it was impeding water flow too much for my liking, I've attached weeping moss to that branch in place. Some ludwigia palustris has been added into the hemianthus micranthemoides to add a pop of colour and some more rotala has been added to the back to try and replace the ones I trimmed to harshly. 
I added another 12 wcmm yesterday and have dropped the water level considerably as had 6 jumpers last night (all safely returned)


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## Karmicnull (2 May 2021)

Looking fabulous!


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## Deano3 (3 May 2021)

Looking great still mate, if your anything like me you will be itching to do a rescape but so time permitting , i will certainly be doing one at some point this year, must be hard work for people who do every couple of month. Tank still looks great though very natural

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## SRP3006 (3 May 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> Looking fabulous!


Thank you,


Deano3 said:


> Looking great still mate, if your anything like me you will be itching to do a rescape but so time permitting , i will certainly be doing one at some point this year, must be hard work for people who do every couple of month. Tank still looks great though very natural
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thanks Dean 
Rescape itch hasn't set in as yet, quite happy with the scape as a whole and enjoying watching it grow. If I could redo it I'd make sure I plugged all the holes in the hardscape/and not have the soil so high. Bits of soil on the sand drive me mad. Also the whole scape has shifted slightly, the wood has moved and the rocks have shifted forwards. The epiphytes are coming into their own now though. Really starting to grow.


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## LondonDragon (3 May 2021)

Looks great  for some reason I am struggling to maintain decent levels of CO2 on mine, I am thinking maybe my regulator is not great any more after 20 years! Might be time to invest on a new one!


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## Jayefc1 (3 May 2021)

Tanks looking good mate.do.you feel.the light has made an improvement in the colours at all yet


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## SRP3006 (3 May 2021)

Jayefc1 said:


> Tanks looking good mate.do.you feel.the light has made an improvement in the colours at all yet


Thanks Jay. 
Colours not sure to be honest. The ferts haven't helped me, messing about with them too much and also I've trimmed my stems back too much so they're only just filling back in, time will tell. The plants have filled in and grown a lot more. The monte carlo has exploded so much I needed to remove the anubias between. I prefer the colours that I see if that makes sense.


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## SRP3006 (7 May 2021)

Always wanted pygmy corydoras in my tanks, have struggled to find good stock locally until today so couldn't resist and bought 8. Cute little things, hopefully they settle in nicely. 😍


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## SRP3006 (7 May 2021)

Meeting the residents 😂😍
Love these little fish already!


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## SRP3006 (6 Jun 2021)

9 months. Ticking along nicely. Soil on the sand still driving me crazy but apart from that all the plants seem to be happy. Had a little outbreak of bba on some of the buce on the left hand side. A bit of an oversight from me as direct sun was hitting the tank for 20 minutes early in the morning, only does this in May and June so made up a little screen to stop this.


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## SRP3006 (31 Oct 2021)

Had to break the tank down due to having some flooring done. This has allowed me to play about with layouts. I've missed not having the tank for the last 6 weeks or so and itching to get it up and running again. 
Trying an triangle layout this time with a larger foreground sand area to the front and left, hopefully try to avoid the pain I had with losing soil on the previous scape.
Also the triangle scape will allow the wcmm's to shoal and the cories will have plenty of sand to explore, which sunlight will hit in the morning during 3 months of the year. Hopefully by planting away from where the sun will hit I can avoid algae issues?
Anyway what do you guys think of the scape?


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## Courtneybst (31 Oct 2021)

Nice shape!


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## Deano3 (31 Oct 2021)

I love a triangle composition mate will look great once them stems etc in there 👍


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## Kyle3 (19 Nov 2021)

It looks really good! Do you have another piece of wood you could add to the background? It could provide more depth . . . though your planting choices could do a lot for adding depth as well. 

I'll look forward to seeing how this develops!


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## SRP3006 (19 Nov 2021)

Thanks. The layout changed slightly due to me not being able to replicate the same scape after removing the card 🙄
I don't have another bit of wood but I think I've removed the empty space to the right by using more rocks and moving the wood slightly. 
It's currently working through a dark start and I'm trying to finalise a plant list but I'll put it up on here to see any anybody sees something that could catch me out. 

Bolbitus Heudelotti
Microsorum pteropus trident
Cryptocoryne willissii
Cryptocoryne lucens 
Cryptocoryne petchii 
Cryptocoryne albida brown
Anubias nana 
Ludwigia sp mini super red
Rotala H'ra
Hemianthus micramthemoides
Limnophila hippuridoides
Bucephalandra theia and sp red to be added after a few weeks as I don't want them melting. 
Unsure on the stems to be honest. Got a bit of space at the back for stems and know for sure that I want HM in there again. Not sure which others work with it. Also want something to soften the line between rock and plant, ie something like Eleocharis Acicularis or Helanthium tenellum just not had any experience in how they respond to being crammed in the cracks between the rocks. Anyone done this before?
Some of the wood will have moss attached to it just haven't decided which one yet.


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## Kyle3 (21 Nov 2021)

Love your plant list so far! In the short term you might want to add a “weed” stem that will gobble up nutrients while the epiphytes and crypts are settling in. Plus it gives you time to mull over the choice of plant for the “line softening” (which is a lovely plan … can’t decide myself which plant I would choose for the job 🤓)

Best of luck!!


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## Angus (21 Nov 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> ie something like Eleocharis Acicularis or Helanthium tenellum just not had any experience in how they respond to being crammed in the cracks between the rocks. Anyone done this before?


Tennellum runners will grow everywhere including over hardscape, but they do like to find somewhere to root rather than floating mid air, Eleocharis parvula/acicularis i have only had in a couple of tanks and its not as 'wild' as Tennellum and has less speedy runners, a bit more of a "hairy" than running habit and i suppose that's why it's called hairgrass, 

Eleocharis might work because you have the filter floss for it to root into, experiment and find out! fiver for a in-vitro pot.
 Gus.


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## SRP3006 (21 Nov 2021)

Kyle3 said:


> Love your plant list so far! In the short term you might want to add a “weed” stem that will gobble up nutrients while the epiphytes and crypts are settling in. Plus it gives you time to mull over the choice of plant for the “line softening” (which is a lovely plan … can’t decide myself which plant I would choose for the job 🤓)
> 
> Best of luck!!


Thanks. I've found Hemianthus micramthemoides to be an extremely fast grower in previous tanks, plus I like to use a few different floaters at start up to help with all the excess. I'm also pondering adding blyxa japonica (in place of the other two) along the rock line which also grows pretty rapid.


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## SRP3006 (21 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> Tennellum runners will grow everywhere including over hardscape, but they do like to find somewhere to root rather than floating mid air, Eleocharis parvula/acicularis i have only had in a couple of tanks and its not as 'wild' as Tennellum and has less speedy runners, a bit more of a "hairy" than running habit and i suppose that's why it's called hairgrass,
> 
> Eleocharis might work because you have the filter floss for it to root into, experiment and find out! fiver for a in-vitro pot.
> Gus.


Eleocharis might be the right one then, don't want it to look messy or for the plant to grow literally everywhere, as you say I'll give it a try.


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## SRP3006 (7 Dec 2021)

Quality plants as always from @Aquarium Gardens, planting went quite well on Friday night, no dramas except from the normal glued fingers 😀 

Some of the crypts have started melting already so I'm doing daily water changes to keep on top of the waste. Few ramshorn snails and cherry shrimp have been added to help tidy up what I can't. 
Cosmetic sand will be added after the melting has stopped and all plants have settled to save hassle when cleaning.


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## Wolf6 (7 Dec 2021)

In most cases I just cut off all crypt leaves and most of the roots, the plant will drop most and form new ones quite fast anyways. Just saves some waste


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## Keetchy (8 Dec 2021)

Just reading through this thread. Original scape looked amazing mate. Shame you had to rip it down. But this new scape is also a good looking one. I like the red you have in the corner. Sticks out nicely. Looking forward to seeing it progress. It's quite similar to the scape i have just done so will be nice to keep an eye on this and steal some ideas you come up with. Lol. Sorry


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## Ghettofarmulous (4 Apr 2022)

SRP3006 said:


> Quality plants as always from @Aquarium Gardens, planting went quite well on Friday night, no dramas except from the normal glued fingers 😀
> 
> Some of the crypts have started melting already so I'm doing daily water changes to keep on top of the waste. Few ramshorn snails and cherry shrimp have been added to help tidy up what I can't.
> Cosmetic sand will be added after the melting has stopped and all plants have settled to save hassle when cleaning.


Any update on this tank? Great journal


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