# Cheap pressurised CO2 system DIY guide



## Themuleous

First the obligatory safety warning (sorry), this tutorial uses a cylinder pressurised to around 50psi or 3.5 bar. Gas under pressure can be dangerous if not treated with respect.  If something goes wrong thatâ€™s your fault, not mine. I accept NO responsibility for loss, damage or injury incurred if you use this guide. But be sensible and you shouldnâ€™t have too many problems 

Right, some of you will have seen my pressurised CO2 tutorial based on a fire extinguisher http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=266. Well having upped the lighting over my work tank I wanted to add some pressurised CO2, after having realised that yeast CO2 is woefully inadequate and too messy even for my 60lt tank.  

I set myself the task of seeing just how cheaply I could put together a pressurised CO2 system and so Iâ€™ve come up with the below.  Its not perfect and has some quite large â€˜consâ€™ but that should hopefully be balanced by some equally large â€˜prosâ€™ and give people on a relatively tight budget the opportunity to try pressurised CO2. I dare say few would go back to yeast  I also wanted to provide a kit that anyone could get, so all the parts Iâ€™ve used I purchased online.

Right first off, the cylinder.  This system is based on the disposable 600g CO2 cylinders used for welding.  A very cheap place is machine mart, but I dare say you might be able to find cheaper.






The cylinder is sold with a green cap over the tread, which once removed shows the 1/8 BSPT (British Standard Pipe Thread) thread.





As this is a cheap system I opted for the cheapest regulator I could find, with is a welding regulator with no gauges.

Disposable Draper regulator





This regulator is supplied with a 4mm OD (outside diameter) push fit connector, which you have to unscrew.













The tricky part of this system was finding a way of converting the 4mm OD push fit adaptor on the regulator to receive 6mm OD CO2 tubing.  Then I started to look for pneumatic adaptors and found this one, a 6mm Push in M Stud connector 1/8 BSPT. The â€˜1/8 BSPTâ€™ part is the important bit as it determines is the size of the thread  with the â€˜6mmâ€™ part the size of the â€˜push fitâ€™ connector.









I got it from Simply Pneumatics.

This you then have to screw onto the regulator and tighten using the wrench.  As you can probably see it is supplied with a plastic coating on the thread.  This was also on the connector I removed and I assume ensures an airtight seal that can withstand the pressure.













Then screw the adapted regulator onto the cylinder.









Then â€˜pushâ€™ one end of the CO2 tubing into the 6mm connector you just added to the regulator.  This process required a reassuring bit of pressure and I could feel that it was a good fit.  It is after all a pneumatic connector so should cope quite happily with the pressure, one of the advantages of using the connector I have.





The next hurdle was to incorporate some kind of needle valve to allow the CO2 rate to be controlled.  As most will have realised the regulator doesnâ€™t have a needle value built in.

Fortunately our very own AquaticMagic can supply this.





Unscrew both the tubing fixings and add the CO2 tubing, which can be purchased from lots of places but AquaticMagic do that also.

















And the same on the other one.





Then all that is left is to add the diffuser, its up to you which you chose, but I like the nano glass diffusers, which Iâ€™ve even used on my 250lt tank, so to my mind there is no reason to get anything bigger.  Iâ€™m also a fan of the cheapo inline diffusers.

Here is the complete system.  I dunked the whole thing into my 4ft tank with the regulator fully open and am pleased to say not a single leak  obviously you could reduce the length of the CO2 tubing to fit as necessary, I just used what I had laying around.





Right to costs, all the below costs include postage where applicable.

600g CO2 cylinder - Machine Mart -  Â£15.41 (Â£4.50 of this is postage, obvious cost savings if you order several cylinders at once or are able to visit a shop if there is one near you.)

Regulator for disposable cylinders - eBay - Â£19.99

6mm Push in M Stud connector 1/8 BSPT - eBay - Â£1.80

Needle value - eBay - $13.40 USD (equaled Â£8.34 GBP at time of buying)

CO2 tubing - eBay - Â£2.92

Diffuser - eBay - Â£4.97 (for two! And two suction cups!)

Total = Â£53.43

Right pros and cons

Pros = Cheap  available to everyone who can buy stuff online (ok an obvious point but I think an important one), easy to set up (would take less than 5 minutes once you get all the parts), easily adaptable to add extra parts such as a solenoid or even an adaptor that allows you to use refillable cylinders and/or fire extinguishers. 

Cons = main one is that is doesnâ€™t have any gauges, so youâ€™ll not know when the CO2 is about to run out, but as this was really an exercise in being a cheapskate I went for the gaugeless regulator. I will just make a note of when the cylider runs out and put a memo in my phone to remind me to replace it before the next one runs out. There are regulators for disposable cylinders that have either one or two gauges but these cost a fair bit more. 600g cylinders will also limit the size of tank you could reasonably use it on.  Currently this is on my 60lt tank but I reckon could be used on tanks up to 100lt without using the CO2 at a stupid rate, which hopefully makes it suitable for most tanks. 

As a final word, I happened to have laying around a busted lunapet regulator, which Andy (Supercoley) said the needle value could be unscrewed and used in place of the 1/8 6mm adaptor above.  

This has the added advantage of having a needle value built in.  You can buy these separately, but I could only source these from Germany and the postage cost made this option just too costly.  But if you want an â€˜all-in-oneâ€™ solution its worth remembering, a bit of searching and you might find it cheaper.

EDIT - this has been suggested as a replacement for the push fit connector and as it has a needle value built it removes the need for the co2 hosting between the reg and needle value.  I've not tried it but it would make the whole system a lot simpler.

http://www.hosefit.co.uk/catalog/produc ... cts_id=778

I hope this is of help to some people.

Sam

EDIT - 2/2/2011

Following some recent threads I've found that Lunapet post a needle value to the UK for just 2 euro's.  So you can have the co2 tubing connector and needle value built into the same attachment and for aorund £10.  This is the one I've mentioned later on in the this thread and I've used in my system 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Feinnadelventil-N ... 20addf0baf


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## CeeJay

Hi Sam

Great article for those on a budget who want to try pressurised CO2.
I'm sure there'll be many people who thank you for spending the time putting the article together.
Well done.

Chris


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## AdAndrews

great write up sam! kinda makes me wish i didnt go fire extinguisher stylee.

thanks


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## Themuleous

Thanks guys, hopefully some people will find it useful.

Just to add that it should be very easy to adapt this kit so it can be used on FE's by adding the D&D CO2 adaptor.  I've not tried this but I dont see an issue with it in theory, the D&D regulators work in exactly the same way 






Sam


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## Jon1706

This is a great thread Sam. And this set up will be great my 60lt. I was wondering can you add a timer to this setup to have it come on a hour before my lights do. And if so is there any links you could post as Im not sure what Im looking for ty. And another question how tail is the bottle of co2 and can you get a stand to sit the bottle in. Once again great thread Sam


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## Themuleous

If you want the CO2 to be time-able, you will need to get what is called a 'solenoid'.  These tend to be fairly expensive and I personally dont use them.  Google 'aquarium co2 solenoid' and that should give you the prices and shops that sell them, this is the type of thing you are looking for.

http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/aquariu ... f=shopping

I will add though, that if you want this, then you might be better off going the Fire Extinguisher route as you can get regulators with solenoids built in if you do that 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Regulator-Dua ... 286.c0.m14

The CO2 bottle itself is approx 30cm long not including the regulator which adds a further 7cm.  I dont know of a specific stand that is avilible but JBL do one for their cylinders which might be suitable, but I cant find it for sale.

I've got my cylinder laying do, which probably isn't the best idea but it seems to be ok so far!

Sam


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## Jon1706

Thank you for the links but I think I will do your way. Can you shut the co2 bottle on and of once its been set up. Or do you leave it going 24/7. Sorry about all the questions just a co2 newbee


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## BINKSY1973

Great write up Sam, Well Done. 



			
				Jon1706 said:
			
		

> Or do you leave it going 24/7



If you don't use a solenoid just leave it running 24/7.

Cheers Gordon.


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## Nick16

you can manually switch it off but that means every morning playing around to get the right amount of co2 to be injected. (BPS)


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## mattyc

Good work on the guide.
I used these cylinders for welding. got them cheeper when i got them in 10's about Â£8 each i think.


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## leehan

Very nice indeed. This is what I was looking for a nano tank recently donated to me. Thanks a lot.

It could be even more compact - and cheaper  -  with one of these flow controllers (Â£3.87 + UK Shipping). They are available in 6mm Pushin - 1/8" BSPT Male connection. This would eliminate the need for the 6mm Push in M Stud connector, needle valve, and the tubing in between.

Regulators in ADA 2006 catalogue were shown to use flow controllers like these, so they may fit the job.

Sam,

Are you happy with your disposable bottle regulator? I am thinking of building one soon.

Ilhan


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## Themuleous

Glad the guide is useful 

That connector you suggest says only up to 10bar, the cylinders have a working pressure of 50bar I think, so it may not be able to cope with the pressure?  Thats why I went with a pneumatic connector.

I'm really happy with the reg, but then I don't really suppose it can go wrong.  Since setting it up, I've only changed the co2 rate once just to get the DC a little yellower, but basically I just leave it alone!

Sam


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## leehan

I've checked the datasheet for a Sealey regulator (very similar to your Draper) and it states that max output pressure is 4 bars (input pressure is 110 bars). So it looks compatible. No big deal if it isn't anyway...

Cheers.


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## Themuleous

Oh right, nice one!  

I'll add the link to the first post.  Might buy one and see how it works 

Sam


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## Themuleous

Just looked, postage is Â£4.50 which makes it only 2quid cheaper, but it is a neat solution.

SAm


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## Mortis

How reliable is the tubing connecting the regulator to the needle valve ? Will it burst if the main valve is open more than the needle valve ?


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## sr20det

Top guide, will keep an eye on this.

Thanks


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## Themuleous

Mortis said:
			
		

> How reliable is the tubing connecting the regulator to the needle valve ? Will it burst if the main valve is open more than the needle valve ?



I didnt notice any problems when I hooked it up but I didnt run it for very long.  Wouldn't think is would a be a problem, the tubing is pretty tough stuff.

Sam


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## tropic_john

wow, its really as easy as that! I thought it was way way way more complicated.


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## Themuleous

Na it really is that easy!

Sam


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## Krishs Bettas

Can I use a 360g CO2 cylinder?


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## Themuleous

If you mean the welding ones, they I would think so, not that Ive tried it, but the thread should be the same size.

Out of interest why do you want to use 360g cylinders?

Sam


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## Krishs Bettas

I'm just tiring to keep the cost down.


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## Themuleous

360g cylinders work out more expensive in the long run, as you get much less CO2 in them.  A 360g cylinder contains 240g less co2 than the 600g cylinder, however as the gas is in liquid form it is much much more.

Sam


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## Jon1706

Hi I've been meaning to get round to this but now my easy carbo is running low I think now is a better time then any. I've just clicked on the link you posted to get the Regulator from and I've found this I was wondering if it would work 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Single-Stage-2-Ga ... 1e599494d6

Also can you fit one of these to the system as I would like it to go though my spraybar less things to hide in the tank 
Ty 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0377832375
Jon


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## Themuleous

Hi Jon,

Firstly that reg wont work as its got a 'male' end and is for wig welders I believe.

Also, the diffuser could be added to the tubing from an external filter, however this one is cheaper and does a great job in my tank.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Carbon-Dioxid ... 19b8941c1a

Sam


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## Jon1706

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Hi Jon,
> 
> Firstly that reg wont work as its got a 'male' end and is for wig welders I believe.
> 
> Also, the diffuser could be added to the tubing from an external filter, however this one is cheaper and does a great job in my tank.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Carbon-Dioxid ... 19b8941c1a
> 
> Sam


Hi Sam ok will keep a look out for the reg you used. andthat would fit in to my spray bar its a tt600 ty 
Jon


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## Themuleous

It should do  FYI it doesnt fit to the spraybar itself, it attaches to the tubing 

Sam


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## Jon1706

Themuleous said:
			
		

> It should do  FYI it doesnt fit to the spraybar itself, it attaches to the tubing
> 
> Sam



I noticed that you can fit it out side of the tank lol (shouldnt skim read stuff lol) I was wondering if you can use the gas bottles from halfords, as there is one in my town and it will cut down on postage   here a link to the halfords site 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165727

Jon


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## Themuleous

Those should work but they are only the 390g version, if you go to machine mart you can get 600g versions which makes it cheaper, even with postage.

Sam


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## Jon1706

ok thanks again, hopefully over christmaswill get my co2 up and running


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## LeTigra

That looks fairly straight-forward
Silly question - you just use the needle valve to determine the flow of CO2 into the 2nd tube and so into the tank?  I've never done this before but have been looking for a cheap CO2 option for my low light set up.  Please excuse my ignorance.
My tank is 300l - do they do bigger canisters of CO2 - if so would it be wise, with that size tank, to get a larger one?
And I might have missed it - are these canisters refillable or just need replacing when empty?
This is such a great idea if it'll work for my size tank


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## Themuleous

Hi 

Yes the needle value controls the amount of CO2 going into the tank.

They don't do larger cylinders, so for larger tanks check this out viewtopic.php?f=34&t=266 its a bit more expensive to set up but the use of a 2kg FE makes is much cheaper in the long run.

The cylinders in this guide are disposable 

Hope that helps.

Sam


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## LeTigra

Thank you   
I'll have a look at that link!


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## freemundo

Hi Guys,

Thanks for sharing this CO2 setup design. I have successfully managed to build the rig but I have problems with controlling the amount of C02 going into the tank.

(tank details: planted Fuval Osaka 155 liters)

During the day things are fine drop checker, lime in color, but overnight the C02 levels get to high leaving the fish gasping at the surface.

Could anyone recommend a solenoid that work on this setup? Also link to item on ebay would great!

sorry to be so needy!

Danny


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## Themuleous

I'm surprised to hear you have gasping fish overnight?  I run my co2 well into the yellow and 24/7 and dont have issues.

Is there anything that is programmed to run differently overnight? No change in surface water movement or powerheads being turned off at night?

Sam


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## freemundo

No I just turn the lights off! 

Would this work?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-magnetic-sole ... 3ca981083e

thx

Danny


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## Themuleous

That should work find.  To be honest most of the solenoids Ive seen on ebay would work.

Sam


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## duddy1985

sorry to bring up a oldish post. I have actually just bought all the gear needed for this setup but also wondering if you can get a solenoid that fits straight into the regulator? I take it the solenoid would need to have a male 1/8 bspt thread on one end and then the other end would be for the 6mm tube? or could i connect my needle valve to the other side of the solenoid?

only reason i want this setup instead of a FE is to try and save space. Not got much room in my tank cabinet now.

Thanks for a great guide. I was going to buy one of those co2 things that you add yeast and sugar but think this is alot better.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v

JBL do a co2 regulator to reg adaptor - here are the shortcuts and picyies if you want to try it, its a bit dear but you can diconnect the joint and reconnect when ever you please.

http://www.swelluk.com/aquarium/aquariu ... o-496.html and TGM sell them as well.














Regards
Paul.


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## duddy1985

so it uses the same connection on the solenoid as a normal 6mm tube would?

also from your pics would the solenoid not connect directly to the regulator if the gauge was removed? it looks like the thread on the solenoid is the same size?

Thanks for the pics and info. I nearly got all my parts for the same price as that one connector. lol.

I could just connect the reg and solenoid with tube but wouldn't be as neat.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v

duddy1985 said:
			
		

> so it uses the same connection on the solenoid as a normal 6mm tube would?



Certainly does apart from an "O" ring that sits just behind the nipple - "O" ring is supplied.

Regards
paul.


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## duddy1985

might look into that when i have some more money.

Thanks for your help.


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## grandb3rry

If one gets this 600g Co2 bottle, how long you reckon it will last? Thx


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## Dolly Sprint 16v

Arthur


It is hard to determine "How" long 600g of Co2 will last - its all down to what you plant requirement which is an unknown quantity. I have a 20 litre tank, current injection rate 1 bps and a 500g bottle last approx. 8 months so I think 600 g will last a bit long, you would be better off buy a bigger bottle.

Regards
paul.


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## grandb3rry

Taking into account that i've never dealt with CO2 before as my 90 litre tank is being prepared and I'm looking for a reasonable CO2...out of curiosity asked how long would this 600g cylinder last. I guess it would last 3-4 months for 90 litre...something like that anyway 

Chaps other question I have: does one have to use a special co2 tubing or can I use an air pump silicone airline tubing? I heard some people say that special CO2 tubing needs to be used...is it true?

Thanks!


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## Themuleous

I go through a 600g cylinder of CO2 on my 60lt in five weeks.  But it is an open top tank and surface agitation is quite high so that will increase the amount I have to pump into the tank.

Yes you need to use CO2 tubing, air line tubing gets degraded by CO2 apparently. Its not cheap, but the best tubing Ive seen is the JBL stuff, if you can find a supplier.  I find a lot of the other tubing is quite stiff and difficult to get onto the diffuser.

Sam


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## Spanerman

Just jumped right in and bought the entire lot 

Now, i have to wait and then get down to machine mart to get the gas

The waiting begins


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## Themuleous

Nice one


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## Harkle420

hi sorry if this is gay, but i have a jbl 2 pro flora co2 system. i heard a story about using calor gas co2 bottles from garages. A 3kg is 15 squid, but u have to take 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper to the regulator to make the o-ring fit!!! This sounded abit mickey mouse to me!! has any one else heard this or is anyone else doing this?? i told my local fish shop about this and he ( who is a bit of a !?*!, one of this people who has or done it bigger and better than everyone ) said he heard of this and he uses a diving bottle!


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## Harkle420

i am such a muppet!! just found another topic on co2 refill than gets on about calor gas refills!! someone shoot me!! lol!1


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## Themuleous

Harkle420 said:
			
		

> hi sorry if this is gay, but i have a jbl 2 pro flora co2 system. i heard a story about using calor gas co2 bottles from garages. A 3kg is 15 squid, but u have to take 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper to the regulator to make the o-ring fit!!! This sounded abit mickey mouse to me!! has any one else heard this or is anyone else doing this?? i told my local fish shop about this and he ( who is a bit of a !?*!, one of this people who has or done it bigger and better than everyone ) said he heard of this and he uses a diving bottle!



Some of the old JBL regs were designed slightly larger so they would only fit JBL cylinders.  I've heard of people filing down the edges so they fit all cylinder makes, but never done it myself.  The newer regs I understand are smaller and fit all standard cylinders.

Sam


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## Harkle420

thanks for the info!!! I have had my co2 for a few years so it is more than likely a old style, just my luck!! I have to drive 40 miles to find a shop with jbl bottles on the shelf. my local shop will refill my bottle but it takes a week!!


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## grandb3rry

Harkle420 said:
			
		

> thanks for the info!!! I have had my co2 for a few years so it is more than likely a old style, just my luck!! I have to drive 40 miles to find a shop with jbl bottles on the shelf. my local shop will refill my bottle but it takes a week!!



What kind of CO2 system you have?


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## Themuleous

Harkle420 said:
			
		

> hi sorry if this is gay, but i have a jbl 2 pro flora co2 system. i heard a story about using calor gas co2 bottles from garages. A 3kg is 15 squid, but u have to take 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper to the regulator to make the o-ring fit!!! This sounded abit mickey mouse to me!! has any one else heard this or is anyone else doing this?? i told my local fish shop about this and he ( who is a bit of a !?*!, one of this people who has or done it bigger and better than everyone ) said he heard of this and he uses a diving bottle!


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## Johno2090

Hey Guy,s just installed this system but i have issues and need some help. When i turn on the regulator at the bottle i get gas coming out for about 1-20mins and then it stops....to get it started again i have to turn of the regulator and reopen it and then it does the same again and again....

Its very frustrating, can anyone help me?

If it helps its a 390g disposable cylinder from Halfords, and the regulator was the one linked on the first page.


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## Themuleous

Sounds strange.  I take it the bottle is definitely full?  Have you turned the needle value down or up?

Sam


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## rrc102

Johno2090 said:
			
		

> Hey Guy,s just installed this system but i have issues and need some help. When i turn on the regulator at the bottle i get gas coming out for about 1-20mins and then it stops....to get it started again i have to turn of the regulator and reopen it and then it does the same again and again....
> 
> Its very frustrating, can anyone help me?
> 
> If it helps its a 390g disposable cylinder from Halfords, and the regulator was the one linked on the first page.



I had the exact same problem when I started using disposible bottles.  Was driving me up the wall, I tried a second bottle, I even bought a second regulator, but had the same issue. I eventually worked out I was screwing the regulator onto the bottle too tightly, try loosening it a quarter turn and see if that improves things.


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## Johno2090

Thanks for the replys guys, i will loosen it a quarter turn  and your right its driving me up the wall too!


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## eternal optimist

excellent write up - its time to ditch the diy yeast effort and go high(er) tech!


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## Johno2090

Worked, Too tight = no co2 coming out, now ive got a constant suppy of CO2! Thanks great guide and very useful system!


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## rrc102

Just don't nuke your fish now it's working (I most definitely didn't do that... )!


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## Anonymous

Three questions;
*One; * Is this addition safe and suitable? 

"EDIT - this has been suggested as a replacement for the push fit connector and as it has a needle value built it removes the need for the co2 hosting between the reg and needle value. I've not tried it but it would make the whole system a lot simpler.

http://www.hosefit.co.uk/catalog/produc ... cts_id=778

I hope this is of help to some people.

Sam"

*Two;* Can the CO2 simply and safely be turned off at night with no fuss and bother (despite having to re-adjust it in the morning). Will use a bubble counter.

*and three;* Can someone give a rough estimate on how long a cylinder will last in a 180l tank (this is why I'm looking to shut it off at night as it doesn't have any use).

Cheers


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## Anonymous

I don't know if one of these could be used as a regulator on the designated CO2 bottle? http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=417
Would definitely be worth the money.

Also check this out for a larger CO2 bottle:  http://www.pvrdirect.co.uk/productinfo. ... /1KG/REFIL
and http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/Gas-Refill ... -1KG-REFIL
Checking their compatibility.


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## Themuleous

Nick593 said:
			
		

> Three questions;
> *One; * Is this addition safe and suitable?
> 
> "EDIT - this has been suggested as a replacement for the push fit connector and as it has a needle value built it removes the need for the co2 hosting between the reg and needle value. I've not tried it but it would make the whole system a lot simpler.
> 
> http://www.hosefit.co.uk/catalog/produc ... cts_id=778
> 
> I hope this is of help to some people.
> 
> Sam"
> 
> *Two;* Can the CO2 simply and safely be turned off at night with no fuss and bother (despite having to re-adjust it in the morning). Will use a bubble counter.
> 
> *and three;* Can someone give a rough estimate on how long a cylinder will last in a 180l tank (this is why I'm looking to shut it off at night as it doesn't have any use).
> 
> Cheers



Hiya

1 - Cant say I've used it so cant comment, but cant see a reason why it wouldn't work. Try and see and let us know   

2 - Yes it can if you dont mind the hassle.  You might want to look into a solenoid which turns the co2 off for you on a timer, which would be loads simpler 

3 - Not very long at all.  2-3 weeks tops.  If it were me I'd look into the FE guide as 600g wont last long at all.

Sam


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## Anonymous

Okay nice one mate, will check it out.


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## Themuleous

Here it is 

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=266

Sam


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## John S

Themuleous said:
			
		

> EDIT - 2/2/2011
> 
> Following some recent threads I've found that Lunapet post a needle value to the UK for just 2 euro's.  So you can have the co2 tubing connector and needle value built into the same attachment and for aorund £10.  This is the one I've mentioned later on in the this thread and I've used in my system
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Feinnadelventil-N ... 20addf0baf



Hi Sam,
Are you saying that the above device will connect straight to the CO2 cylinder and the airline will then go from it directly to a diffuser?


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## keith hellyar

Dave

No its not possible and dangerous. You must have a regulator to reduce the bottle pressure down to useable pressure. The needle valve can then fine tune the CO2 that flows from the reg at about 1.5 bar.

Personally I think you should also have a solenoid valve so that the c02 is automatically closed down at night. Otherwise you have to manually turn off the C02  and then turn it on and fiddle with the needle valve every morning. Unless of course you leave it on but thats wasteful.

Keith


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## John S

Thanks Keith. So this attatches to the regulator? Sorry if a I'm asking silly questions but I've got a tad confused with all the other options from the original list :?


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## keith hellyar

Yes it attaches to the reg with a supplied adaptor. Saves connecting them with pipe.

Keith


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## Themuleous

davem said:
			
		

> Thanks Keith. So this attatches to the regulator? Sorry if a I'm asking silly questions but I've got a tad confused with all the other options from the original list :?



Basically all you're doing is swapping this bit






for this bit 





And then just push the co2 tubing into the blue part.  The other end of the co2 tubing connects directly to the diffuser.

Sam


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## Toadeh

I've done the above and got the needle valve into the regulator.

I've also got http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=417 so I can see what is going on with it.


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## GreenNeedle

Yep thats what I did when I first bought the WeldUK one way back (dual on elike you link to.) They told me I needed the adaptor to fit the CO2 hose so I bought it.  Then found the needle valve would screw straight into the whole anyway.  I guess me being a little vague with them and not knowing what I was doing at the time.

AC


----------



## Themuleous

The only thing I would add is that I found this needle value to be a bit tricky at the lower end of the bubble rate.  The difference between sufficient and too much Co2 in my 30lt cube was minute and I managed to gas a load of my fish and shrimp, so probably better to use this on slightly larger tanks that have more room for maneuver.

Sam


----------



## Katch

I've just bought the parts for this.

The needle valve from luna pets;






is perfect. Well worth the extra couple of pounds. Now looking for a cheap solenoid.


----------



## egon

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-magnetic-valv ... 20b9878b8c

Would that do the trick with regards to night time off periods?


----------



## Johno2090

That's the one most of us use!


----------



## egon

Heh! thats good then!


----------



## Richard Dowling

Is it possible to buy all the parts that you have bought but get a cylinder that is a little more suitable for larger tanks? I have a 120L tank, this is the first article that I have seen that describes in simple terms exactly how to buy everything and put it together within my sort of budget. Your article has given me the confidence to give it a go but the size of the cannisters bothers me. Will I be replacing them every five minutes on a 120L tank?


----------



## spyder

dowheim said:
			
		

> Is it possible to buy all the parts that you have bought but get a cylinder that is a little more suitable for larger tanks? I have a 120L tank, this is the first article that I have seen that describes in simple terms exactly how to buy everything and put it together within my sort of budget. Your article has given me the confidence to give it a go but the size of the cannisters bothers me. Will I be replacing them every five minutes on a 120L tank?



Going for a larger cylinder just means you will have to buy a regulator that fits it. This is a cheaper option for smaller tanks. 

Maybe the fire extinguisher threads would be up your street. viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7776 viewtopic.php?f=34&t=266


----------



## Themuleous

This kit would still work, you just need the adaptor to convert from disposable to refillable cylinders.  

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -2438.html

THis is what I'm using at the moment  but the FE kit might be better if you can.  I must admit I would prefer a reg with a gauge, this disposable kit was designed to be as cheap as possible 

Sam


----------



## niknaksky

Is there any updated links for the kit on the first page as most dont work anymore ?


----------



## piesforyou

niknaksky said:
			
		

> Is there any updated links for the kit on the first page as most dont work anymore ?



You only need the CO2 bottle from machinemart, the Draper regulator (found easily on ebay) and the needle valve;
http://www.hosefit.co.uk/catalog/produc ... cts_id=778

I thought I'd register and pay homage to this setup. Been using it on my little 30L for around 5 months now, absolutely no problems, it's great! A real "set and forget" option and very cheap too. I have sort of been craving a solenoid though. I found this;

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/process-v ... d/7013236/

which could fit the bill.


----------



## mike_freegan

This thread is fantastic! Forgive me for being a complete newbie(I'm trying to understand adapter fitting sizes), but could I use something like this directly on the bottle, or is that too good to be true:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Co2-Regulator ... 196wt_1037

If not, what could I use that on?


----------



## Radik

The one posted seems for FE not disposable bottles so check any of theses http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... +regulator


----------



## mike_freegan

Thank you! Do I still need the needle valve etc. as in the first post or can I literally go "Welding bottle > Regulator > diffuser"? It seems like as much as I read about this, it just isn't getting any clearer!


----------



## Radik

bottle>regulator>needle valve>non return valve>bubble counter>diffuser, search for nadelventil on ebay.de for needle valve, there are two types they are both silver looking one with black other with chrome valve. German made and precise. You want also some o rings when screwing regulator to needle valve or some push in fittings which should already have some sealants


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Trying to get some co2 in my tank as quick as I can reason why...viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18545

Jury's still out on the ebay ones from hong kong until I find their fit for purpose and the delivery times are a worry. I managed to find one of the http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... zone=PDPz1 which they have in stock I can pick up tomorrow. Anyone know if they are suitable? I already have a d-connector for the FE and I can use the needle valve off the old gauges I hope! Does anyone know if needle valves are a standardised thread?


----------



## Themuleous

That looks like it would work, but take a cylinder with you when you buy it and test it out, Halfords are generally quite good about letting you see if something would fit.

Sam


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Thank you for your help, I actually ordered the TMC reg from AE to stay on the safe side. I'm away next week working so my emergency routine of switching off 2/3 of the tubes, diy co2 and liquid carbon I can't keep up as I have no-one to administer the EC for me. I've been plagued with BBA in this tank before which as you know loves a good fluctuation(after long time nearly cleared up) so I was trying everything I could to prevent it as I had been running the co2 quite high previous to my reg packing up. Hopefully all my measures will have smoothed over that transition from high co2 to nearly none and the reg will come before I leave town.

Anyway off topic there   back to the reg, I should only need the d-connector to take to halfords as it is going on a FE I will let you know if it works ok. I need a spare set up to prevent this situation happening again anyway. I have the needle valve off the old broke reg and also another one at my office that was off one of those regs that use the old 8gram co2 bottles from way back in the day so I'll compare the threads and see if they match and then compare them with the halfords one and see if the thread is the same rather than having to change the 4mm pipe to the 6mm output plus a needle valve. Hopefully I can get a spare reg set up for emergencies with just the purchase of the halfords part and preventing me freeking out again.   

I have heard that the knob on the Halfords reg may be a dummy I'll post up if that's the case and it is a couple of quid more expensive than other parts listed in this topic but it was worth putting up if anyone finds themselves like me needing one in a hurry, most people have a halfords somewhere local.


----------



## Lemsip

Needle valve - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Feinnadelventil-N ... 230wt_1139

Gas - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clarke-Co2-Ga ... 038wt_1396

Regulator - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DISPOSABLE-AR ... 3210wt_942

Are these suitable for this setup? (plus tubing, diffuser etc).

I assume the Lunapet needle valve removes the need for the adapter?


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Yes all of those things will do. My issue was that I needed to get some gas into my tank rather sharpish before I went away to work so I was looking for stuff I could get delivered straight away. If you check my other post about why I ended up here you will see I have linked three regs from Hong Kong which will do what your trying to achieve for slightly cheaper than you are now and also has the bonus of having a gauge to see when your bottles empty. For roughly another tenner you could probably also get a fire extinguisher.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Looking at your links with the postage for one of them which was variable the total came to £39.09

FE from here http://www.firemart.co.uk/webshop/2kg-k ... 72_168_172 There probably are cheaper just threw it in as an example
Reg from here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180358932765? ... 1438.l2649
I can't vouch for the quality never tried one but I would try one at that price, I have emailed the seller who I have had other items from before who tells me the working pressure is pre-set non-adjustable at between 2-2.5 bar more than enough to run the likes of the up inline diffusers or the atomisers.
Total is £43.54 so for another £5 your getting another 1.4kg of co2. If you shop around a bit more you could prob get a 2kg FE co2 set up running for around £40


----------



## Mr P

hi everyone.has anybody running an atomiser with the draper regulator?,any feedback would be great.skankypup


----------



## barrett-5

Hi All and seasons greetings

I have just got back into the hobby after retiring and have been reading around the site and have found great inspiration. This posting is a very good peice of work many thanks. It got me thinking of using pressurised Co2 but do not have a large budjet for it. So I came up with this

Needle valve from here:-  http://www.airlines-pneumatics.co.uk/we ... =S07013310

In line ball valve from here:- http://www.hosefit.co.uk/catalog/produc ... cts_id=276

Needle valve screwed into a sealey two guage regulator ball valve streight after the needle valve, as I do not have a solenoid, the ball valve allows me to switch the Co2 off and on withhout the need to readust the needle valve setting just like the ADA systems but at a fraction of the cost.
Regards
John


----------



## Themuleous

You don't need the ball valve that whats the needle valve is for 

Sam


----------



## Themuleous

skankypup said:
			
		

> hi everyone.has anybody running an atomiser with the draper regulator?,any feedback would be great.skankypup



What do you mean by atomiser? Inline or diffuser?

Sam


----------



## barrett-5

Hi Sam,

The ball valve allows me to switch off the co2 at lights out and back on again without any need to alter the needle valve. Just like a solenoid but by hand.
John


----------



## GHNelson

Hi
That should be okay if its made for the said purpose....only thing is you will need stiff Co2 tubing to get a good seal.
hoggie


----------



## Themuleous

Right I see, you dont have to turn the co2 off at night, just elave it running, although I know several people like to anyway 

Sam


----------



## darthpaul

Has anyone found a stand for the weld co2 bottle? I am considering this for my nano but want to stand the bottle out of the way.


----------



## Themuleous

JBL do a cone stand, or used to at least.  I have also seen people use those water bottle holders you get for bikes, like this.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... tedKingdom

Sam

PS - I dont know if that holder I've linked to would work, its just to show you what I mean  you've have to check the size, etc.


----------



## darthpaul

Just to note the 2nd edit on the opening post which says "Lunapet post a needle value to the UK for just 2 euro's" this is not true, I have just ordered one and it was 4.50 Euro's postage to UK.


----------



## Themuleous

Cheers for letting us know, I too had thought it was 2 euro's so worht know its more.

Sam


----------



## BooneyInc

Hello Guys,

I just joined because i really need some help. Im looking to set up my first co2 system. but i want it to be as cheap as possible. Ive looked around on the net for the last few days, but its all to confusing for me to grasp all the lingo etc. I can take the easy root and purchase a Fluval, JBL or simalar systems, but i like to try and do it for myself, so i can have self satisfaction. Plus the JBL/Fluval systems work out to expensive in the long run, and i dont want to be buying bottles every month or so.

All i want is a safe reliable system. NO FE or anything of the sort. Im afraid of things blowing up.lol

If like the original poster suggested, i purchased a co2 disposable bottle from

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... TC=SRC-co2

and then got a regulator from ebay like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Co2-Regulator ... 29fe3ae91d

or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W21-8-14-Prec ... 4aaf256b01

or infact this 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-Co2- ... 35b9dadf43

would that do the trick.

will these regulators fit the co2 bottle for example, will i need something else, are the thread sizes correct, are they safe? will i need and adaptor to fit the piping. do i need any needle valves etc. Plus how long will a bottle likle this last at 1 bubble a second for e.g. These are all the things that are confusing me at the moment.

If you guys have better suggestions please show me links as i just want to do this as easily as possible.(and cheaply)

You guys all seem helpful and friendly so i await your responses eagerly.

Thankyou


----------



## O'Neil

Hey dude non if the above regulators will fit those bottles, there is a massive difference in thread sizes.

The regulators you have chosen will fit most FE setups.

This one will tho

http://ishop247.auctivacommerce.com/Arg ... oogle_base


----------



## darthpaul

Regulator (I bought one of these) - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Disposable-Mi ... 2951wt_942

Needle valve which will screw into the regulator - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Feinnadelvent ... 559wt_1014


----------



## BooneyInc

Thanks for your replies.

another question. if i purchase that regulator and then that needle valve. does the valve attach staright onto the regulator, or do i need some co2 piping inbetween.

also if i decide to use a smaller bottle like this http://www.co2cartridges.co.uk/index.ph ... &catId=312
will that work with the regulator mentioned.

Thanks again.


----------



## O'Neil

If you get the one darthpaul recommended then the needle valve will screw straight into it.

I don't think the paintball CO2 cartridges will fit the regulator as the  threads are different, the threads on the regulator are imperial and the paintball cartridge are metric.
Also the paintball cartridge is 88g for £5.10 + delivery and the clarke bottles are 600g for about £12 + delivery, In short the Clarke ones will last longer (almost 7 times longer) and if you can't afford to buy them in a 3 pack you can get them one at a time from machine mart.
There will be other retailers but machine mart will save you having to buy online, there's bound to be a one nearby if you are in the uk.
You should be able to use other paintball cartridges as long as you get the thread right, you may even be able to get a refillable one.
The thread for the cartridge needs to be 1/8" if you get the regulator recommended by darth.


----------



## Eboeagles

Thanks for a great walk through. 

Reading through this thread I'm pretty clear on what I would need (I think)! However with all the additional links and comments I have one question:

Is there actually a regulator that fits the welding bottles with a Pressure Manometer? 

Is this Weld UK one:

http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=417

Or is there a connector that allows you to use for instance one of the FE regs or a normal aquatic co2 reg?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Phil


----------



## O'Neil

It's hard to say mate, personally I would contact the supplier and ask, or even mail him/her a picture of the disposable bottles you intend to use, the disposable bottles are a 1/8" male thread.
There is a probably a bush or fitting that will allow you to convert it to fit an FE, but you have take into account the pressures that the regulator would have to cope with, i dunno what these are tho tbh.
If you go for an FE setup try to follow Thems' instructions as closely as possible.


----------



## BooneyInc

Cool beans, so ive gone ahead and placed orders for all the parts i need. am just waiting for them to arrive.
So Thankyou very much for all those that could help.

Im not gonna have fish in this tank yet, so do i need to go through a cycle first before introducing plants or can i just go straight ahead and plant away. also i noticed that most small tanks/nano tanks dont have visible heaters. do i need a heater? In one of the Ukaps featured scapes the aquascaper states his water is unheated.

Thanks again!


----------



## O'Neil

I'm no expert on the aqua stuff yet, I just happen to know a bit about gas.

There is loads of info on the site tho and I mean loads.
I'd have a look through if I were you and see if you can find the answers, if you can't get the info your looking for I'd start a new thread explaining what I'm doing, what I have and what I hope to achieve.
Try and post in the relevant parts of the forum for best results tho.
Journals mite be a good place to start 

Good luck


----------



## BooneyInc

booo to your poor unhelpful reply.


----------



## O'Neil

BooneyInc said:
			
		

> booo to your poor unhelpful reply.



Sorry Booney just don't wanna give any bad advice, I even looked around the forum to try and find a thread that would help but i ran out of time.


----------



## Themuleous

There is a convertor that goes from disposable to refillable cylinders (increasingly rare), but not the other way as far as I am aware.

Is this the kond of reg you mean?

http://www.toolbox.co.uk/sealey-gas-reg ... GoogleBase

Sam


----------



## Antoni

Sam, 

could you please give me some leads, where I could find a converter that will allow me to use a fluval regulator /for disposable bottles 88 gr/ on refillable bottle,

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Antipofish

BooneyInc said:
			
		

> booo to your poor unhelpful reply.



This comes across as a bit rude. Did I miss something and you were joking ?  I hope so because the guys on this forum are incredibly helpful 

Anyway, in answer to your questions...  You don't need to cycle.  In fact it would be better to plant straight away, and plant heavily too.  The more plants the better.  They will help your cycle.  Do large water changes (50%) every couple of days for the first 2 weeks then reduce that over the next few weeks until you are doing 50% a week by about 6 weeks.

You could do with a heater unless the tank is in a room that remains at an acceptable level for the plants you intend to grow.  I would say really you should have a heater, and you can get thin flat ones for nano tanks for under £20.  Hope this helps.


----------



## Themuleous

Antoni said:
			
		

> Sam,
> 
> could you please give me some leads, where I could find a converter that will allow me to use a fluval regulator /for disposable bottles 88 gr/ on refillable bottle,
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Aquaessentials used to stock it and aquatics online, Charter House also i think.  You're looking for a D&D thread convertor.

Sam


----------



## Antoni

I'm google-ing now   Thanks!


----------



## BooneyInc

> This comes across as a bit rude. Did I miss something and you were joking ? I hope so because the guys on this forum are incredibly helpful



Yeah i was only messing about.

I got my equipment and its all set up. ive ordered my plants online so now waiting for those. Im very excited tbh.

I bought a heater but ive decided i wont use it yet because the water temp has been fine so far. I might introduce it in the winter.

Thanks again


----------



## Antipofish

BooneyInc said:
			
		

> This comes across as a bit rude. Did I miss something and you were joking ? I hope so because the guys on this forum are incredibly helpful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah i was only messing about.
> 
> I got my equipment and its all set up. ive ordered my plants online so now waiting for those. Im very excited tbh.
> 
> I bought a heater but ive decided i wont use it yet because the water temp has been fine so far. I might introduce it in the winter.
> 
> Thanks again
Click to expand...

OK let you off then , hehe, glad you were jokin     This is an unbelievably helpful forum, but remember to use the smilies sometimes so that people realise you are kidding.  Till we know someone its sometimes hard to tell 

So what stuff have you bought and what plants are on order ?  Where are you based ? have you set up a journal for us all to follow your progress ?  

One word of warning regarding heaters... or LACK of heaters.... They give you STABILITY of temperature. So even if you are finding the central heating (or local climate) is maintaining a rough temperature, its still worth running a heater to maintain a more level temperature.  Bear in mind that CO2 dissolves at different rates depending on temp so if you have temperature fluctuations, your CO2 will dissolve at differing rates.  This in turn could give you fluctuating CO2 levels and therefore give rise to algae, which you don't want     I have a Hydor ETH300 external and it maintains my temperature within 0.3degrees C.  Hope that helps.


----------



## Lemsip

Been using this setup for a few months now, working great. However bit concerned as one of the canisters only lasted 1-2 months, on my 23L tank at low bps.

I'm guessing it's been leaking somewhere (into bedroom!) along the line, but tested with soapy water and no luck.


----------



## O'Neil

How are you applying the soapy water?

I tend to mix it with my hand till I have loads of bubbles, I then scoop the bubbles off the top and use these everywhere there is a connection. 

Leave it on a few mins and simply watch, you should get big bubbles where there are leaks.

Try this if you haven't already  hopefully it will find your leak.


----------



## Lemsip

I used a spray bottle to apply it - couldn't find any leaks. I'm thinking I may have used a large quantity at the beginning when I was testing equipment etc. Will see how long this canister lasts.


----------



## O'Neil

Yeah maybe but still try my method if there are no leaks then it may at least put your mind at ease knowing you tried two different ways.
If you don't get any leaks using the foamy bubble method then your low co2 may well be cos you were playing with it at the beginning, I did the same, lol
Just remember to make your mixture really thick with 2 parts soap 1 part water.


----------



## master3z

Have anyone ever use or are using the simple regulator on a fire extinguisher?


----------



## Themuleous

master3z said:
			
		

> Have anyone ever use or are using the simple regulator on a fire extinguisher?



Not using it on an FE but I have got it on a large pub co2 cylinder.  You need an adaptor to get it to fit which no one seems to be doing anymore.


----------



## Lemsip

Lemsip said:
			
		

> Been using this setup for a few months now, working great. However bit concerned as one of the canisters only lasted 1-2 months, on my 23L tank at low bps.
> 
> I'm guessing it's been leaking somewhere (into bedroom!) along the line, but tested with soapy water and no luck.



Updating as my next canister is also running out - Ive been running at about 2bps. How long have the canisters lasted for others? Can only imagine it's leaking before the bubble counter but I cannot identify where!


----------



## Themuleous

2 months seems about right.  Have you tried submerging the lot in a bucket of water to check for bubbles?  It shouldn't damage the reg as this is how i first tested this kit.


----------



## tim

i've been using this setup for a while now and buy my bottles at local shop for ease of purchase and i get between 1 and 3 months on same tank with same bubble rate not having weighed the bottles to be sure imo some are fuller than others please feel free to disagree as i have no facts to base this on  just my thoughts  still for me best cheapest reliable convienient pressurized set up ive found so thanks sam


----------



## deepak267

very nice.


----------



## Broomy

Handy guide, very helpful.


----------



## Lemsip

Themuleous said:
			
		

> 2 months seems about right.  Have you tried submerging the lot in a bucket of water to check for bubbles?  It shouldn't damage the reg as this is how i first tested this kit.



Just an update, one new canister has now gone within a week. No idea how, tested for leaks and cant identify any. Maybe the reg is buggered.


----------



## O'Neil

Possibly ...... but if the reg was knackered would it not 

A. Show up when you have been testing for leaks
B. Asphyxiate your livestock

Hope that doesn't come across the wrong way, I'm just trying to narrow down the options so I can work out where your problem lies.

Another potential but less likely scenario could be that some regulators come with a safety discharge valve that could purge gas if the internal bottle pressure got too high (I know that isn't possible since your continually draining your cylinder and you have +ve pressure in the bottle) but this may point towards a faulty safety discharge (AKA buggered reg)
But ...... I would expect the life expectancy of your CO2 bottles to be almost consistent, yours seem to vary wildly.

On the other hand it could be as simple as some bottles have more gas than others as mentioned above.


----------



## PaulP

Great stuff! will be saving up the pennies for my 60L and would this be ok for my 30L too? Sorry I haven't gone through the whole thread to see if someone has asked this.


----------



## Antoni

Just a quick questions guys, do you use any type of o-ring between the regulator and the needle valve? I have bought the Lunapet needle valve and it is pretty small gadget, but it doesn't come with any rubber o-ring and the carving it is quite long, so it actually reach the bottom of the female joint of the regulator. I have tried to use the o-ring that comes with the regulator/on the push fit connector/, but when screwing the valve, it pops out its place and gets loose... I have noticed that Sam uses it without an o-ring... is that not causing a leak?


----------



## Aqua sobriquet

It's only a thought but I can't help thinking it would be better if the needle valve bolted straight into the regulator? There seem to be quite a number of threaded adaptors about if it's not a direct fit.

Wherever possible use bonded (Dowty) washers or thread sealant to prevent leaks.

Good guide in spite of this though!


----------



## Antoni

I have screwed it directly to the regulator without the washer and tested it in the sink full of water. No leaks. Now it is up and running on my tank  Happy days!


----------



## scapegoat

Hi does anyone know if the 600g welding cylinders would fit a regulator that fits the 95g paintball disposables? 

If it does fit could there be issues of too much pressure?

Thanks Jacob


----------



## Matnez

Hi, this has been a really useful guide and I'm thinking of setting one of these systems up. I was just wondering if anyone knew what pressure these regulators release the co2 at? 

I ask this question because the solenoid valve I have has a maximum operating pressure of 141psi, is this going to be enough?

Thanks Matt


----------



## gramski

Matnez said:


> Hi, this has been a really useful guide and I'm thinking of setting one of these systems up. I was just wondering if anyone knew what pressure these regulators release the co2 at?
> 
> I ask this question because the solenoid valve I have has a maximum operating pressure of 141psi, is this going to be enough?
> 
> Thanks Matt


I've got these on my three tanks the pressure is between 50 and 60 psi so you should be fine with these.


----------



## Matnez

gramski said:


> I've got these on my three tanks the pressure is between 50 and 60 psi so you should be fine with these.


Thanks for the info gramski, its a massive help.


----------



## Matnez

Hi, Just another couple of quick questions as I'm in the process of setting this system up.

When set up do you open the regulator completely and only control the output flow with the needle valve, or do you control the output flow with a combination of the regulator and the needle valve.

Also would this solenoid valve work a pressurised system like this. DC 12V 250mA 3W 2 Position 2 Way Air Pneumatic Electromagnetic Solenoid Valve G1/4": Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
is rated to the required pressure but just thought I would get some advice on it.

Thanks, Matt


----------



## tim

hey mate you would open up the reg fully and control flow with needle valve i tried to fit a solenoid to mine but struggled to find the right thread connectors so kept getting leaks the solenoid should work long as you find the right connectors


----------



## Matnez

Thanks for that Tim, massive help. Try this website for fittings, they have loads of different sizes Motivair - > 
Adapters/Plugs/Manifolds  - Brass   

Hope that helps, Matt


----------



## tim

cheers for the link matt some good stuff there


----------



## Matnez

No worries mate


----------



## Matnez

Are most of you using the regulators without the pressure gauge on them? Is the only advantage of having the gauge been able to see when the bottle is about to run out?

I'm trying to decide if I should go with a gauge or not..

Thanks


----------



## ian_m

I think most people are using regulators with dual gauges one for tank pressure typically 55 bar when full and other gauge for outlet pressure typically 1-3bar. The main tank pressure stays roughly the same throughout the tanks life, the liquid CO2 evaporating filling the space, keeping the pressure constant. Basically the main tank pressure starts to drop when there is no more liquid left, just pressurised gas (at 55bar) in which case you have a day or two before it runs out completely.

I have written the full weight (with regulator etc) on my FE (5.8Kg when full with 2Kg of CO2) and put the kitchen scales underneath occasionally to see how much is left. I am using about 6gr a day on 180l tank, giving about 11months use.

Also be careful of some "single stage" (and single gauge) regulators, meant for welding, as they can suffer from "tank dump" when the cylinder pressure drops. This is when the tank pressure drops the outlet pressure rises and dumps the remaining CO2 contents out. This is great when welding as it is obvious your tank is running out as flow seriously increases but it will obviously suffocate any fish, again telling you your tank is empty.


----------



## ajadcock

Sooo is there a dual gauge, 2 stage reg that fits disposable bottles or a way of adapting the thread on another reg?


----------



## Henry

I have recently invested in this exact setup.

Do I open the regulator all the way and set the flow rate at the needle valve?


----------



## darthpaul

Henry said:


> I have recently invested in this exact setup.
> 
> Do I open the regulator all the way and set the flow rate at the needle valve?


 
Yes Henry thats exactly what you do


----------



## Henry

Thanks  I now have a constant flow of co2. 

I'm using it with a Hagen Elite Mini, which I plug into a timer. The co2 starts diffusing an hour before the lights come on, but with lights off the bubbles float to the surface without dissolving. Cheap solenoid


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## andrejacobs81

Hi,

Is there an adaptor that can take these disposable bottles to make it DIN 477 combatible?

I followed Sam's original tutorial on making an FE Co2 system and it worked great! Now I would like to do something similiar for a nano (but I don't have space for another FE) and I would like to have at least a solenoid valve on it (as I have on my FE reg setup).

Found these guys CO2 Solenoid Regulator selling a CO2 regulator + soleniod for not a bad price (however this is using the DIN 477 size). If not I might just go with their sodastream method and cough up the £30 for a sodastream thread adapter.


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## tim

You could look at a jbl reg with solenoid you just unscrew the din477 fitting with an Alan key and they fit welding gas disposable bottles.


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## andrejacobs81

On second thought, might just go with another FE setup (the missus will just have to accept I am going to move some of her sh*t out the way  )


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## ale36

its probably mentioned some where in this post but how long do you guys think a 600g bottle would last on a 65l tank with low light?


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## Henry

Quite a while, I'd say. I've been running 1 bubble per second (I know this isn't a precise unit of measurement) for a month now. I had a leak for the first 3 weeks, and I've also accidentally let off a fair amount. It's still going strong and keeping a consistent flow. A rough guess would be around the 3 month mark.


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## GillesF

Hi guys

I wrote an article about the FE setup on my blog with a link to this thread. One of my readers claims it's dangerous because of the "internal pipe" that pushes out CO2 in its liquid form, damaging your regulator. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Cheers,
Gilles


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## ian_m

GillesF said:


> One of my readers claims it's dangerous because of the "internal pipe" that pushes out CO2 in its liquid form, damaging your regulator. Does anyone have any experience with this?


This gets bought up every couple of months. Yes there is a dip tube. No, no one has ever reported an issue with liquid CO2 getting into the regulator.

Here is a cross section.





As a trial I disconnected my CO2 tubing, opened needle valve full and powered the my solenoid. Gas rushed out. Gave up after a minute with no detectable temperature drop of neck of FE, FE valve or the regulator.

I suspect we are taking gas in such a small volume that any drawn up liquid CO2 instantly turns to gas within the extinguisher or connecting tube or valve. We empty a cylinder, in my case 8 months, and in a fire in about 30seconds, about a million times faster.

If you are worried, get a cylinder without a dip tube or turn your FE upside down or just ignore all the doom worriers and get on with nice plants (and fish).


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## GillesF

Thanks mate!


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## molee94

tim said:


> You could look at a jbl reg with solenoid you just unscrew the din477 fitting with an Alan key and they fit welding gas disposable bottles.


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## beeky

I don't know if everyone else has bigger cabinets than me, but the internal height of mine is 23.5 inches. Will I be able to fit a 2kg FE and reg in this space? I would have imagined most cabinets are the same sort of height?


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## Gary Nelson

beeky said:


> I don't know if everyone else has bigger cabinets than me, but the internal height of mine is 23.5 inches. Will I be able to fit a 2kg FE and reg in this space? I would have imagined most cabinets are the same sort of height?


 
Yes most seem to be 700-750mm high so you still have a decent amount of room above, even with the regulator fitted on


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## sa80mark

Mine is 700mm and wouldn't fit in you unit

700mm is 27.5 inch


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## James D

I'm new to this whole area so forgive me if these questions are a bit stupid....

Presumably I need to buy a bubble counter using this system to get the right flo /amount of CO2 going into my tank? And secondly the 6mm tubing referred to is standard 4mm internal / 6mm external tubing?

Thanks.


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## Andy Thurston

A couple of points to add to your post the co2 cylinder is a M10x1 not a bsp and bspt stands for british standard pipe taper. 
Good cheapy setup though


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## James D

OK, I've bought all the equipment in the original tutorial, many thanks for that! I'd really prefer to use a solenoid with it though...can anyone tell me if  (a) this one is suitable (and (b) where abouts on the set up would it be fitted?

Thanks


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## sa80mark

Yes that will do the job, for a cheap solinoid there actually really good, put it as close to the regulator as possible the shorter the tube between the solinoid and regulator the better

Mark


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## James D

Thanks mate, I'm off to order it now.


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## Andy Thurston

If you buy an 1/8bsp to 1/8bsp nipple you can fit it directly to the reg just unscrew one of the fittings on the solenoid that way it dosent flop around and crimp the co2 tubing.


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## James D

At the weekend my final parts arrived, I put it all together successfully and my diffuser is bubbling away happily.
Many thanks to Themuleous for this excellent thread!


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## James D

As Columbo would say... just one more thing.

I've set it up like this:





Does that look ok?

(Sorry, I couldn't edit the previous post)


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## ian_m

James D said:


> As Columbo would say... just one more thing.
> 
> I've set it up like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does that look ok?
> 
> (Sorry, I couldn't edit the previous post)


Not quite.

You should really run with the solenoid and needle valve the other way round. As above, when the solenoid is off, the length of tube between valve and solenoid will pressurise to 2-3bar (or 55bar if a cwap regulator) and when the solenoid opens you will get a burst of gas which can "pop" tubes off and/or give an enormous first burst of CO2 into you tank. Many people has reported this, especially where they locate the CO2 a long distance from the tank, as well as leading to extreme difficulty in setting a reliable bubble rate.


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## James D

Thanks mate, that makes sense.


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## ian_m

This really comes into its own where people locate the CO2 cylinder across the other side of the room, in a garage etc and have long lengths of CO2 tubing. You want the needle valve to be as close to the diffuser as possible and solenoid as close to the cylinder as possible.


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## James D

Thanks for the advice Ian, my CO2 tubing is only about a metre long so it should cause any problems.

Actually I had a bit of a result this morning, next door to where I work is a place that sells engineering parts. I was having trouble fitting my solenoid to my reg without tubing so I took it in there, it turns out that they sell all the components I've bought off ebay. Not only that, but it turns out the bloke used to keep planted aquariums so after a bit of a chat he set up my equipment, and gave me a better needle valve for free. With the connectors he gave me I've got my reg > solenoid > needle valve connected directly onto each other with no tubing, a vast improvement.

Cheers.


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## ian_m

Result....


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## Simon jones

Fantastic!!! I was using the DD co2 bottles costing £21.99 plus £6.99 postage from Aqua essentials. The exact same bottle from machine mart (which is at the end of my street) £11.99!!!!!! Someone's making a tidy profit.


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## Aqua360

Henry said:


> Thanks  I now have a constant flow of co2.
> 
> I'm using it with a Hagen Elite Mini, which I plug into a timer. The co2 starts diffusing an hour before the lights come on, but with lights off the bubbles float to the surface without dissolving. Cheap solenoid



can you please elaborate on this?


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## tim

Aqua360 said:


> can you please elaborate on this?


Hi Aqua, I think Henry used the elite mini to diffuse the co2(run the co2 hose straight into the filter) the impellor will break up the co2 into fine bubbles allowing better diffusion, by putting the filter on a timer say 2hours before lights on untill 1 hour before lights off will act like a solenoid, when the filter is off the co2 will dissipate out of the surface of the tank, good for livestock, hope this makes sense.


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## Aqua360

tim said:


> Hi Aqua, I think Henry used the elite mini to diffuse the co2(run the co2 hose straight into the filter) the impellor will break up the co2 into fine bubbles allowing better diffusion, by putting the filter on a timer say 2hours before lights on untill 1 hour before lights off will act like a solenoid, when the filter is off the co2 will dissipate out of the surface of the tank, good for livestock, hope this makes sense.



It does  also great idea, pick up a lot of great tips on here that I'd never have thought of otherwise


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## tim

Aqua360 said:


> It does  also great idea, pick up a lot of great tips on here that I'd never have thought of otherwise


Great idea indeed, I used a small power head with a ciggie filter stuck into the co2 tube for diffusion, putting the power head on a timer would've saved a few shrimps lives when I first started out


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## Aqua360

just wanted to ask those using this system, have you had long term success with it, in regards to the durability of the components etc?

Close to investing in this system, but still getting my head around some of the smaller parts despite its simplicity lol


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## Barbara Turner

tim said:


> run the co2 hose straight into the filter) the impellor will break up the co2 into fine bubbles allowing better diffusion



Have you personally tried this? 
I tried co2 injection before a marine pump thinking similar would happen but it causes the pump to cavitate horribly and become very noisey.


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## ceg4048

Barbara Turner said:


> Have you personally tried this?
> I tried co2 injection before a marine pump thinking similar would happen but it causes the pump to cavitate horribly and become very noisey.



Yes, many people have tried this and have been successful using this technique. When it works, it works better than most methods. Some pumps and filters cavitate. What you can try is to use the ceramic disk so that the bubbles entering the pump are finer. Also, because this is an efficient method, the injection rate can be reduced, which can sometimes mitigate the cavitation.

Direct injection into the pump inlet should always be tried. If it's problematic then don't use it. If it works it will solve or avoid a LOT of problems.

Cheers,


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## Barbara Turner

I was injecting between filter and pump, guess it depends on impeller design. 
I'm using a relatively large pump that outputs up to 4000lpm, definitely didn't like CO2 injection creamed like a banshee even with the pump turned right down. 

It was a cheap Chinese ceramic inline diffuser the bubbles were relatively fine.  I'm going to try again with inline injection next time after the pump.


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## Louielubert

Hi Sam, Looking to purchase CO2 system, really helpful article, cheers


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Just wondering if this screws directly onto the welding cylinder and you would just need tubing and a diffuser? Can anyone confirm for me?

https://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/co2-regulator-simple-p107.html


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## Louielubert

This seems quite straightforward, even for a novice like me, great advice


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## GHNelson

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Just wondering if this screws directly onto the welding cylinder and you would just need tubing and a diffuser? Can anyone confirm for me?
> 
> https://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/co2-regulator-simple-p107.html


You would need a needle valve for very fine adjustment!
hoggie


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## ian_m

This type of regulator can't be used with a needle valve or solenoid as it isn't really a regulator, but a "flow control valve".

It will work wonderfully as described with a suitable diffuser providing 24/7 CO2 injection.

If however, as many people here have found, you insert a timed solenoid or another needle valve, the connecting tubing pressure will rise to 55bar (full tank pressure) and burst off the connections.

For a small tank, running CO2 24/7 this will be fine, but not really suitable for larger tanks as waste CO2 will be considerable.


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## GHNelson

Ian...is correct on the above information my mistake!.....
hoggie


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## AlanRR

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Just wondering if this screws directly onto the welding cylinder and you would just need tubing and a diffuser? Can anyone confirm for me?
> 
> https://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/co2-regulator-simple-p107.html



Would this fit on to a standard fire extinguisher? I am wanting a cheap way to get CO2 into a small tank for a few months and don’t really want to spend £100+ on a regulator. 

Thanks

Alan


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## ian_m

Yes would connect fine but this is a flow regulator, see my above post about all their major major major drawbacks.


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## AlanRR

ian_m said:


> Yes would connect fine but this is a flow regulator, see my above post about all their major major major drawbacks.



Thanks Ian, 

The idea is just to run it with plants only 24 x 7 for 2 or 3 months just to encourage plant growth. As long as I can adjust the thing to a reasonable rate I wouldn’t need a solenoid or additional needle valve. I guess in this scenario the main question would be how accurately I can adjust it.  

Cheers

Alan


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## AlanRR

Looks like my cabinet is too small for a fire extinguisher anyway  I only have about 500 mm to play with and the extinguisher seems to be about that height with no room left for a regulator. Looks like I am back to looking for something to work with the smaller disposable canisters.


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## ian_m

You can always use a welding cylinder or soda stream bottle.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-pressurised-co2-system-diy-guide.7696/

Much smaller than an FE.


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## si walker

Anyone set this system up recently?
Most of the links are defunct now as they are a few years old, so was interested to see if anyone had some updated sources or fixings?
I found the Draper Regulator Here for a really good price, but someone may have an updated version??

Let me know if you have a shopping list left over?

Cheers!
Simon


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## Siege

si walker said:


> Anyone set this system up recently?
> Most of the links are defunct now as they are a few years old, so was interested to see if anyone had some updated sources or fixings?
> I found the Draper Regulator Here for a really good price, but someone may have an updated version??
> 
> Let me know if you have a shopping list left over?
> 
> Cheers!
> Simon



would you really want a regulator that goes out to 1,900 psi!

id be seriously Reconsider, especially if new to co2.


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## si walker

Hence why I was asking if anyone had live links for the products originally posted.
To me, that regulator looked the same as the one at the start of the topic? Thank you for pointing it out if its different!
I will wait around a while to see if anyone has assembled this recently. You have highlighted how misleading a picture can be, although I also presumed that a needle valve controlled the output? I do know sod all about this though.
Thanks for highlighting!
Simon


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