# Dan's 45p - A Blank Canvas.....



## dfinn (9 Jun 2015)

Hi everyone,

So I've taken the plunge and done a bit of investing. Met up with Chrisintheuk today and left with a few goodies to start my next challenge including an ADA 45p, Aquasky light, Eheim classic 250, CO2 kit and a hydor external heater.





Now I have decided to start my journal whilst I'm still in the very early stages so I can see how the plans evolve before I go ahead. I think it will be a fair few weeks until I start setting up as I still don't really have a plan for the scape.

All I know is it will be high tech planted. Whether that be an Iwagumi style or more jungle. Who knows..., I am tempted by auto dosing my EI ferts. Another issue with these tanks is what stand to get. I kind of feel that a solid oak sideboard would be the perfect complement to it as I'm not a massive fan of the ADA stands.

So scape ideas/ general ideas on a postcard guys, I will post a more detailed plan soon for people to critique.

I am really looking forward to this project, my current setup (see here) is reasonably low tech with EI ferts, T8 lighting and yeast CO2 with "easy" plants. So this is a bit of a jump for me, hence lots of planning. Any advice will be greatly received and will keep everyone updated along the way.

Cheers,

Dan


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## Andy D (9 Jun 2015)

Looking forward to the updates.


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## Ryan Thang To (10 Jun 2015)

Nice one. I like it where it currently sitting


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## dfinn (14 Jun 2015)

Next on the agenda is glassware. I can't decide between a lily pipe outlet or a poppy type.




 
or


 

I feel like the poppy type will reduce the flow slightly. The filter is a Eheim classic 250 so think the poppy might be better given the tank is only 36 litres, any thoughts?

Dan


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## dfinn (14 Jun 2015)

Playing around with scape ideas.

Tried a couple of Iwagumi type layouts in an old tank with some spare rocks I have (unsure on the rocks) and also a piece of wood which I really like. If I went for the wood I feel it would have to be surrounded by small rocks at the base. More of a fan of wood than rocks. Also all the substrate will be aqua soil, no sand. I'm only using sand and a similar sized old tank at the minute as I don't want to scratch the 45p if anything falls (and I have no aqua soil lol)







Iwagumi or wood/ jungly theme...

Dan


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## dfinn (15 Jun 2015)

Playing around a bit more with the hardscape, again still only with sand and an old tank. Feeling something along the lines of this:



Dan


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## alto (16 Jun 2015)

dfinn said:


> More of a fan of wood than rocks.


reason enough to choose wood!
sand is nicely artistic in this dry tank but that shape won't hold in a running tank unless you add in substrate supports (more wood, rocks, plastic supports etc)

As for which outlet type, can you buy both & then return one?
you might add in an Eheim valve to adjust flow if you prefer the look of 1 outlet over the other, also as you add in the Hydor & any CO2 inline reactors, filter flow rate will drop significantly (not to mention filter media etc).


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## dfinn (16 Jun 2015)

I think I will be going for glass Lily pipes to keep things as aesthetic as possible.

Latest scape:



Now what plants/ livestock to have. I feel a shoal of Ember tetras would look good here?

Dan


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## alto (18 Jun 2015)

Green Pekoe Pond is a 45P - lots of ideas on plants there  (look for small leaf structure to suit the smaller tanks) 
Fish - much depends on what you like in movement & color, there are many "micro-rasbora" , you might see if any local shops offer Sundadanio Axelrodi
Possibly some of the Pseudomugil type rainbows may work, depends on your supplier though as (source) location seems to alter size even within "species"


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## dfinn (18 Jun 2015)

Thanks alto, I think I can only dream of achieving anything like that!

I feel my carpeting plant will be Eleocharis sp. mini, with echinoderms tuneless between the wood/ stones.

Lots more planning to do...

Dan


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## dfinn (19 Jun 2015)

When you find that piece of drift wood in a box somewhere.... this could take a while.



Dan


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## dfinn (19 Jun 2015)

I am thinking of just buying the power sand and aqua soil (powder type?) and setting the tank up somewhere and just hardscaping it until I'm happy with it.


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## dfinn (19 Jun 2015)

Upside down we go, quite like this, gives the scape some height.







Dan


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## dfinn (19 Jun 2015)

Might be onto a winner now? (getting obsessed with this)


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## Mark-jan (19 Jun 2015)

I'm liking the first 1 the most. trying to imagine some stem plants growing in the same direction as the 2 pieces of wood


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## Andy D (19 Jun 2015)

I prefer it with the main piece of wood in the new position as it now gives the scape some height. 

Do the other bits of wood add to it? I'm not sure...


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## PARAGUAY (19 Jun 2015)

I like the twigs parts upward as original photos,but the branch on the left was perhaps a bit too vertical


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## dfinn (26 Jul 2015)

Update: An impromptu trip to IKEA ended up meaning I have a cabinet for the tank! It's pretty sturdy but I am going to replace the back board with chip board so that I can fix extension leads, heater, dosing pump etc to it.

I have an order from TGM on the way with aqua soil and seiryu stone etc to play with.

Here's a pic:



Next step is to plan how all the equipment will be arranged in the cabinet before I cut the backing board with cable/ pipe holes etc.

Dan


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## dfinn (29 Jul 2015)

Received a little delivery from TGM today, complete with Seiyru stone.



Dan


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## The_Iceman (29 Jul 2015)

Hi Dan,

looking good so far! 
Just keep in mind that, depending on what you are going to plant, you will end up trimming around your stones, to keep them visible.

Cheers,
Chris


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## dfinn (30 Jul 2015)

Thanks Chris, indeed lots of trimming will be needed. I just want the rocks to add a little something with the wood being the main piece.

Found that you also need to use a hammer for scaping these teeny tanks to get the size stones you need...



Been playing around with the layout of all the equipment in the cupboard. Tempted to buy the dosing pump and STC1000 thermostat to make sure things fit!

Dan


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## Dantrasy (30 Jul 2015)

Could probably do with a bigger rock or two.


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## dfinn (30 Jul 2015)

Dantrasy, thanks for the comment. Where would you put the bigger rock? I feel like I need to limit the amount of hardscape footprint so I can actually get some plants in there.

Dan


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## Dantrasy (30 Jul 2015)

I actually think your tank is big . But I'm used to working with 1ft cubes and mini m sized tanks. So 45cm is big to me.

I'd start by grouping all the rocks you currently have together. Group them around about where you have the biggest rock atm. Try to get a bit of height. 

Also, out of curiosity, I'd try turning the dw upside down. So those two 'arms' are half way up the height of the tank.


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## dfinn (30 Jul 2015)

Hi,

Haha fair enough, I was used to a 180 litre to this is teeny for me.

Added another rock or two, I really like the driftwood as it is, I have had it the other way before on an old scape so was to use it this way for a change. I still have loads of other bits to do before I am ready to plant/ fill so will probably change it all around before then!

My vision is for the planting to be pretty low throughout the left/ front of the tank, probably with a hair grass carpet and a few small plants dotted around the rocks. Then I will have more height around the wood where the focal point is.



Dan


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## dfinn (30 Jul 2015)

Or it might take me 30 seconds to try what you said out Dantrasy. Now what am I meant to do as you are right, it also looks pretty good (to me).



This could take a while...

Dan


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## Nick_V (30 Jul 2015)

I like this one! If it was my scape I would grow low carpeting plants all around the stones and wood and in the middle of the wood some higher plants, but that's my idea  like the scape


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## Dantrasy (31 Jul 2015)

i think with the second one you'll find it easier it keep the plants away from the dw and rock. as always, plant choice and trimming technique will be the decider.


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## dfinn (31 Jul 2015)

I've been thinking about the plants.

I think I will have a carpet of Eleocharis sp. mini throughout. Then additional plants around the wood/ rocks - things like Echinodorus tenellus and hydrocotyle. Background I would either have taller hair grass or something like Rotala rotundifolia.

Attempt number 3,456,431 at a scape....



Dan


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## Wisey (31 Jul 2015)

Personally, I think that the wood looks best positioned like a submerged tree stump, with the single thicker piece pointing upwards and the two thinner pieces more like roots on the substrate.


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## Wisey (31 Jul 2015)

It's almost like two arms coming round, you could use this as a barrier between two different plants and it would almost be like two arms hugging the plant in the middle. Something that contrasts would be really good, like a taller green plant behind the arms and then the arms hugging a shorter red plant, something like Alternanthera Reiniki Mini. I might sound a little bit mental talking about wood hugging plants, but hey, its Friday


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## dfinn (31 Jul 2015)

Wisey I agree, I quite liked how the "arms" made little arches and how the main body of the wood adds height to the scape. I am just leaving it set up dry for a while and will keep trying new layouts until I decide.

Dan


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## dfinn (6 Aug 2015)

Not much going on except I have acquired a few bits and bobs, loving my glass EI fert delivery pipes though, these are meant for in-tank CO2 diffusers to make the pipe-work tidy but I am using them the other way around to delivery ferts from a peristaltic pump without the pipes contacting the water surface. In my opinion they also look cool.

Also got 1 litre jerrycans for the EI ferts, new digital timers, switched extension leads, hardware for the backing board, some LED strip lights for inside the cabinet so I can see inside plus other bits and bobs.







Probably not very exciting stuff but hoping this patience planning/ buying extra bits adds to the overall end result.

Dan


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## dfinn (9 Aug 2015)

I've decided to use one of the shelves from the cabinet for the backing board so have got that all measured and cut for pipes/ cables etc. LED strips fitted to the top board for cabinet lighting.


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## dfinn (10 Aug 2015)

After pretty much 3 days work the hardware is near enough all installed. Currently running everything with an empty tank to check for leaks. I suspect I may need some new non- return valves for the auto doser as they is a bit of back-flow going on. Also need to figure out what to do with the intake/ outlet pipes and they are pulling the lily pipes out of line. I may have to cut a hole in the top of the cabinet (scared). Also awaiting the arrival of the STC 1000 temperature controller so I can wire it up to the hydor.

I have tried to keep the tank cabinet equipment as tidy as possible, wires will be neater once it is drained and ready to be planted.





Dan


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## Wisey (10 Aug 2015)

Looks good! I wish my cabinet was that spacious.


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## ajm83 (10 Aug 2015)

Looks like a nice little setup you have there. Is it okay to have the filter pipes like that permanently? I'm sure mine had words to the effect of the the hoses must be pretty much straight up from the filter to the tank.

Anyway looking forward to seeing how the scape turns out on this one.


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## dfinn (10 Aug 2015)

That's the great thing about buying things second hand, you don't get the instruction manuals telling you all the boring rules! I did scan the eheim instructions online and didn't see anything but will check again. 

Just some minor leaks around the Hydor and diffuser which I might have fixed.

I have ordered a 60mm circular plastic grommet and think I am going to have to cut the top for the pipes as they just look daft currently.


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## Wisey (10 Aug 2015)

I'm not sure if they have to be straight up, but I think the shorter the better as flow will be reduced.

If you need to cut a nice looking hole, use a hole saw drill bit, put some masking tape down on the surface first to try and stop the surface splitting. That should give you a decent hole for your grommet.


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## tim (10 Aug 2015)

If you don't want to drill the cabinet you could make a couple of acrylic elbows to join the filter pipes to the Lilly pipe tubing just use acrylic with the same inside diameter as the tubing.


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## dfinn (10 Aug 2015)

Thanks people. I know drilling is more difficult but I think it will be better aesthetically, plus it means I have fewer pipe joints/ leaking risks?

Dan


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## Chris Jackson (11 Aug 2015)

I'm enjoying your patient approach! Yes, I think drilling is the way to go otherwise the hoses will tend to flatten where they bend at the edge of the cabinet and restrict flow. You could use elbows instead of course but then a bit more leakage risk but some of the small ADA Gallery tanks are set that way and look v tidy in the videos. (Clear pipes and elbows mind so plenty of maintenance...)


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## dfinn (11 Aug 2015)

Thanks Chris, I have figured out that patience is definitely beneficial and you need to right kit/ parts to get things right. I think I am going to hold off cutting the cabinet as I think the hoses might be ok as they are. Half the problem is that my lily pipes only have one suction cup on so they twist with the hose pressure. I am going to try and fit another one to them somehow and see if that helps things.

The STC-1000 arrived today, now I need a project box to wire it into. 

Also my non-return valves are leaking a bit on the auto-doser. They are pretty cheap ones. Does any one know of any decent non-return valves that will fit airline but stop fluid back flow?

Dan


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## Chris Jackson (11 Aug 2015)

I'll be watching progress!

These for check valves perhaps? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/John-Gues...t=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item3397f8fb49


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## dfinn (11 Aug 2015)

Non return valves seem ok now, I have fitted CO2 tube to them instead. The only areas leaking now are the plastic connector from the pump to the tube grr.

Dan


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## Wisey (11 Aug 2015)

I had this with my TMC Easi-Dose that I set up last weekend. The plastic connectors had like a raised barb on them. I found that if I made sure I cut the airline level, pushed on as far as it would go, then zip tied around where the raised barb is it sealed fine. Initially I had zip tied behind the barb around the end of the airline and that leaked.


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## dfinn (11 Aug 2015)

I have figured out CO2 tube is much better than standard air line. Just need to order some more now to change it all to CO2 tube and hope that works.

Dan


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## Lindy (11 Aug 2015)

Why not cut 2 small holes that are just big enough to allow the pipe through?  I did that and it looked really smart.

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## dfinn (2 Sep 2015)

Sorry for the lack of updates.

Not much going on at the minute but managed to get the STC 1000 into it's project box last night.



Dan


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## dfinn (1 Oct 2015)

Sorry for the lack of updates - Now moved house and have been reconnected with the internet!

Everything is in place and ready to go at some point... 

Here's a teaser, just me playing with a blue LED strip.




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Just need the plants now!

Hope to progress more soon!

Dan


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## Marius_20 (2 Oct 2015)

Keep going dfinn. You have a nice small tank. I like it.


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## dfinn (4 Oct 2015)

Hi,

Right, been thinking about plants:





Plants:


On the wood - Anubias nana bonsai, (what is the smallest form of this I can get?)

Rotala rotundifolia
Bacopa austrilaris
Echinodenorus tenellus
Micranthemum umbriosum
Hydrocortyle verticillata or tripartite especially around the wood and large stone.
Carpet - I Don't know! I don't know if I dare try HC as heard it is difficult? But not sure Eleocharis would work in my scape?

Any other ideas/ thoughts on plants?

Dan


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## tim (4 Oct 2015)

Hi dan, plant list sounds good mate, micranthemum Monte Carlo is an easier option than hc IMO though can be rampant ( read lots of trimming to keep it healthy) once it gets going, http://tropica.com/en/plants/plantdetails/4554/4554 one of if not the smallest I think.


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## NC10 (4 Oct 2015)

The only problem I had with HC was its tiny roots, easily up rooted by fish, other than that was ok. 

Just buy a pot of each, interplant them and let them get on with it.

If the HC seems to be doing well you can always pull the MC.


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## dfinn (4 Oct 2015)

Thanks guys,

How many pots of the MC/ HC would I need for the tank, imagining that everything is carpeted other than say the back 2" strip of the tank?

Dan


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## dfinn (6 Oct 2015)

Ordered fewer plants as I think my previous list was too much


Micranthemum 'Monte-Carlo' Tissue Culture 
Bacopa 'Compact'
Anubias Nana 'Mini'
Rotala Rotundifolia
Hydrocotyle tripartita Japan

Better wire that thermostat up!

Dan


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## banthaman.jm (7 Oct 2015)

Dan great journal and tank, coming along nicely.
Jim


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## alto (7 Oct 2015)

Hardscape is looking fantastic (though those substrate contours will likely change with flow) - your patience at putting this together is impressive  

I'd be tempted to add in another plant with either color (C albida brown - mine has remained very pink) or leaf shape contrast (Didiplis diandra or Hottonia palustris) but your list looks good  

Maybe try pulling tank a bit forward on the cabinet - not quite so close into the corner ...


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## dfinn (8 Oct 2015)

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback! alto I like the Didiplis diandra. It may be a later addition. Haha my patience is more down to finding the time currently has been difficult but the plants have been dispatched and can only pick them up on Saturday from the postal depot (crossing fingers they will be ok for a day or so in the packaging).

I have the tank very far back to reduce the bend on the filter pipes. I may brave drilling the hole in the top of the cabinet but for now I will leave it.

I now need to research on actually running this thing. Any advice on cycling this tank/ setting lighting/ CO2 timings/ water changes. would be most appreciated. I assume the aqua soil gives me plenty of ammonia so I won't need to add anything to the tank to start the cycle. I will post my suggestions later but if anyone can help before hand that would be great!

Dan


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## dfinn (8 Oct 2015)

STC 1000 wired up, things look nearly ready to go. Just need to set up the bubble counter, fill the EI bottles and tidy up a bit!





Dan


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## alto (9 Oct 2015)

Great organization in that cabinet 

If you haven't already, spend some time on Tropica's site, they offer quite a bit of supporting information if you click on all the links - the 90Day App is quite decent, you may need to change water more frequently to start if you've used ADA soil (with it's high ammonia levels released) which generally recommends 50% daily for the first 1-2 weeks, then alternate days for a week or so, then every 3rd day for a week or so, then weekly ...
(Note Tropica soil does not release measureable ammonia when their water change schedule is followed, so when they add shrimp etc before tank "cycles", it's quite a different situation from an ADA soil setup) 

Without the shrimp etc in at the early stages, algae detection is on you, so take the time to check the tank thoroughly each day & physically remove algae, also possibly increase CO2 & water changes ... ADA also offers the "Phyton-Git" 
If tank receives much ambient room light, you might consider running CO2 24/7 during tank startup.

I believe ADA begins with fertilization in the early stages, but also uses different fertilizers as tank develops, so you might consider following Tropica's guideline of limited ferts in the first week or two
(I just use Tropica range, & don't add anything other than CO2, light & water changes in the first few weeks) 

Tanks cycling usually takes 4-6 weeks, fastest is ~2-3 weeks ... if you can source some filter material from a running tank, that will jump start your tank (note ammonia levels greater than 2-4 ppm will inhibit your bacteria of interest).

Usually one can check filter establishment by looking at nitrate production , but most EI recipes seem to include a good amount of nitrate salts, so you need to take this into account.

Filter comment - the outlet "poppy" shape produces a gentle flow compared to the ADA "lily" shape, hardscape also impacts flow, so take note as tank progresses.

If plants are packed/stored properly, they should be fine with a Sat pickup - remove any damaged leaves as you're planting.


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## dfinn (9 Oct 2015)

Cracked diffuser! Not happy.

Turned everything on and it started bubbling from the casing, must have cracked during the move as it was fine before. I've superglued over the hairline crack for now and think I will need to order a new one. I also forgot the wood would float as it had dried out so now it's being weighed down with a big rock.

On the plus side the STC 1000 and hydor appear to be working in harmony, all the timers and auto doser are programmed. I am going to start with 8 hours of lights with CO2 coming on/ going off 1 hour before the lights. Dosing 10ml of macro/ micro on alternate days.

Just hoping the superglue will seal the crack enough to allow me to run CO2 until a new diffuser arrives! Stress.....

Dan


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## dfinn (9 Oct 2015)

Superglue appears to cure all woes...

Looks like it is ok for now, will get a replacement at some point.

Couple of pictures, ignore the rock weighing down the wood, should have soaked it!










Dan


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## Bacms (10 Oct 2015)

To start I would recommend 6 hours or less of light

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## dfinn (10 Oct 2015)

Hi,

Thanks, OK will change the timer, how long should I leave it at that, should I gradually increase it over a few weeks? I Have a dimmer on the Aquasky so I have dimmed it to about 70%. Should I do the same with the CO2 or keep that on 8 hours?

All the plants are in and everything is running.





Again ignore the big rock weighing the wood down!

Dan


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## Bacms (12 Oct 2015)

I was hoping someone with more experience would chip in. Plans need to transition from emersed to be submerged which takes months. From the first weeks they are very inefficient at taking CO2 from the water that is the reason most folks advice you to run low light for the first month or so, this slows down your tank growth so that if CO2 is insufficient you don't have major plant melt and algae all over the place. It will still happen just slower so you can reduce lights, increase CO2 and improve flow to solve the problem in time. 

CO2 normally starts 2h before lights on and shuts off 2h before lights out. You may need to play with this

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## dfinn (14 Oct 2015)

Hi,

Thanks Bacms, I have the lighting on 6 hours and have reduced the intensity further today as have started to get some monte carlo melt. I guess getting some is inevitable as it transitions from being a tissue culture plant to immersed:

Melting Monte carlo...









Had just gone a water change, hence the blue drop checker.

Any help appreciated.

Dan


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## alto (14 Oct 2015)

dfinn said:


> Micranthemum 'Monte-Carlo' Tissue Culture
> 
> Bacopa 'Compact'
> 
> ...



Just reminding myself what's planted 

If you're not easily able to replace the MC, I'd be inclined to pull some & set up an emerse culture from one of the bunches that still looks decent - just spread out the stems & lay them on the soil, they'll anchor themselves
 (a shallow translucent plastic bin with some damped ADA etc soil, plastic wrap cover, daily misting but be careful of too much damp, indirect light on a window sill should work - glass vases look better of course )

I don't think the melt is inevitable - take a look at the 1,2-Grow plants that Pedro has used in his Going Dutch by Tropica journal - obviously he's a master  but note his attention to detail & the separation of the stems ...
I believe that plant history impacts "_meltability_" as does localized environment ie your water parameters, whether filter/tank is still in that "_brand new_" stage (an established tank/filter has a complex array of microlife) ... very soft leaves are more susceptible to physical damage/bruising during handling but I don't know how significant a contributing factor this really is ...

My experience with tissue culture MC is sometimes it melts, other times it doesn't ... not very helpful 
I placed some in a Spec 19 a week ago, it's melting nicely, I added shrimp last night (my delay) & they've cleaned up all the melty bits so at least what remains looks clean & green.
The good news is that even just a bit of a stem will grow on & on ...

Likely you can't vacuum the melty bits without pulling up the whole section, try doing it with tweezers (if you're good that way), definitely stay on the water changes.

You might try separating some of the larger clumps into smaller sections.

I think balancing CO2 & light is more important than actual light levels - my very light poor Spec 19 has melted the MC very nicely (of course CO2 is also very low as none is added) - but you're likely doing fine to reduce light intensity.

The time required for plants to transition from emerse to submerse is species dependent, some not very promising looking _Didiplis diandra_ looks to be completely submerse leaf after a couple weeks.
(it was doing rather well until the chocolate gouramis decided it was in need to trimming - & they do just trim, bite & release those untidy leaves leaving an artistic stem behind - fortunately the Dd is made of pretty stern stuff & is growing back quickly)

Re tank flow, some dislike that bowl shaped glass outflow - check that you've got current where you want it (it only needs to be gentle & not a torrent)
I don't see a diffuser in the tank, so assume you've put it inline - otherwise you might place it near the MC ...

Without livestock in the tank, you can also opt to run CO2 24/7 while plants establish, especially if room lighting is brighter than dim.


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## Bacms (15 Oct 2015)

Reduce the light for sure it may also be worth searching the forums to see the intensities people use those lights. 

Try and move your drop checker close to the substrate as you probably have low CO2 in there, so you will need to up your CO2 injection or improve distribution. Ate you aiming to get a lime green at lights on? 

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## dfinn (27 Oct 2015)

Update:

Plants growing in nicely, still struggling a bit with the Monte carlo though, although I think it is still growing...

Getting this annoying speckled film on the surface, half wondering if it is the EI ferts crystallising.









Dan


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## dfinn (29 Oct 2015)

Sooooo I was thinking of adding some fish this weekend, so thought I'd test the water....





Looks like I will be waiting a bit longer.

Nitrite and nitrate are through the roof, but ammonia is looking reasonable. Am I right in thinking that the cycle has started and the ammonia has been cleared from the aqua soil but now I just need to nitrite to reduce?

Just done another water change to help things out.

Dan


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## banthaman.jm (30 Oct 2015)

IMO i would hold off for a little while longer, let the plants get more biomass first.
Jim


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## alto (30 Oct 2015)

I'd do 3 consecutive day 90% water changes - that should bring the nitrites etc right down & then your kit should be able to more accurately measure the N's
When kit is measuring end of scale (or close), there's no way to know if the actual N value is that last measurement or 10x that last measurement ... you can take the tank water & mix it with tap water (check "tap water only" as a "blank" though) in various ratios to get a more accurate estimate of nitrites etc

Note that when nitrite levels are that high, they will inhibit growth of your desired filter bacteria, so another reason to just do large water changes ... as you're seeing both nitrites & nitrates, your filter is likely well started BUT check tap water for nitrates also consider what nitrate levels you may be adding through fertilizers

I add shrimp & otos from Day 2 & feel they just help with plant establishment - I use a Seachem Ammonia Alert & always have some cycled filter material to jump start the process.

Nice to see the tank settling in, you might just keep removing the melting bits from the 'Monte Carlo' - if you scissor, then wave gently with your hand, it shouldn't interfere with rooting, then syphon as needed.

That speckled film may be more algae related than EI precipitates (floating ... hmmm ...  ) - just turn the filter towards the surface at night to break it up ... you can also try skimming with a very fine net or paper towel to remove the bulk of it ...


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## dfinn (31 Oct 2015)

Hi,

Thanks for the replies, I have done a couple of water changes so nitrite is much better now.

Next problem is algae, got brown patchy stuff and then brown fronds (highly technical I know).

Monte carlo still melting in patches. I have removed these bits as they weren't rooted well and trimmed all the remaining green stems and replanted.


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## Bacms (31 Oct 2015)

The brown is diatoms which are common in new set-ups. How many water changes have you been doing? Also if you still are getting melting you need to lower your lights. How many hours are you doing at the moment?


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## dfinn (1 Nov 2015)

I've upped the water changes to 50% twice weekly as I had slacked before with only once weekly. Lights are dimmed to about 70% output on for 7 hours a day.


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## banthaman.jm (3 Nov 2015)

try dimming your light to about 40-50% output and drop the lighting period to 5-6 hours per day.
Jim


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## dfinn (8 Nov 2015)

Lights dimmed to about 50% and on for 6 hours per day. 

50% water change today and had to replant the back left background plant as the deeper stems went black, assuming they aren't getting enough light.

Diatoms still occurring, keep removing as much as I can...

I also removed more of the melting monte carlo and replanted the newer green offshoots. Not sure if I am winning or losing here!









Dan


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## Bacms (8 Nov 2015)

Black stems are melting which is caused by to much light for the amount of CO2 your tank is requiring. Raising lights levels will make the problem even worst

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## dfinn (15 Nov 2015)

Inhabitants are now present.

10x Neons
7x Otos

Still waiting for the Monte Carlo to pick up... lights on 6 hours at 50%, CO2 on for 8 hours, EI ferts auto dosed.





Dan


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## dfinn (17 Nov 2015)

Some pics of the diatoms, still struggling to keep these under control, manually removing what I can. Ottos don't seem to be that bothered for them!

What should I be doing, should I be increasing water changes or will this worsen things?










Dan


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## Bacms (18 Nov 2015)

That is still looking bad. Water changes never hurt specially when your tank is so affected the more the better. I can't remember which ferts you were using but it may be worth dosing the macros after water changes. Daily water changes for a week are probably needed but I know this is not always feasible so just fit as many as you can and do manually removal of algae. amano shrimps will also help, they really helped me achieve the balance I was looking for on my tank after struggling with brown algae for a month


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## MossMan (18 Nov 2015)

Following this with interest. I'm about to start up my own tank and am learning a lot too!


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## tim (20 Nov 2015)

Hi dan, I had the same thread type diatoms in my mini m, you can use a small artists brush to brush as much as possible off the plants before each water change then syphon out maybe 70-80% of the water keeping it all stired up to remove as much as possible.


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## Jaap (20 Nov 2015)

I had this filamentous algae before. Never managed to beat it but I saw a difference when I decreased light intensity. Tom Bar suggested that it was due to low biomass which was true in my case but I think in your case its more about low CO2 and high Lights. Since you have fauna in there I would not suggest you increase the CO2 or at least increase it slowly always observing fish behavior. I would also add liquid carbon (Easycarbo or Excel) in overdose (x3 or x4 suggested dose), just ensure you have no shrimp in there. You have your lights at 50% now which is good but since I don't know much about the ADA lights I would even go down to 40%. All you need is some healthy growth and when this happens you can stop dosing the liquid carbon. Have in mind the liquid carbon will kill off all of the algae when overdosed however if you stop it, the algae will come back if the root problem was not fixed. Also don't cut of the liquid carbon immediately, go from 1 week of x4 overdose to 1 week of x3 overdose and so forth until you stop adding it.

This is MHO:
Lower light
Increase CO2
Siphon all algae
Overdose liquid carbon

What kind of substrate do you have?

Thanks


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## dfinn (20 Nov 2015)

Hi,

Thanks people. I have ADA Aquasoil Amazonia Powder Type with Powersand Special S below.

I tried dosing easycarbo last night actually but my too's seemed to go a bit mad/ distressed and the drop checker went yellow so I did a 50% water change. I think my CO2 is ok as the drop checker is lime green. I have moved my lily pipe tottery and improve flows bit.

To be honest when I reduced the lighting it seemed to just make the problem worse so I've just decided to increase it and see what happens (it's all about experimenting in this game). 

Dan


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## MedicMan (20 Nov 2015)

I've actually been fighting this algae in my tank lately too.

I'm pretty sure its a low biomass situation in my case too, but I've found that doing daily water changes while rubbing down all branches and harscape, removing with a toothbrush etc, seems to have helped.

It's taken two weeks of daily maintenance and each day it seems there is less and less growth.


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## dfinn (22 Nov 2015)

I'm just manually removing the algae now and letting things ride themselves out. I don't want to keep changing things as it will just make everything unstable. I know my CO2 is fine at the drop checker is spot on and even goes yellow by late evening (fish fine). I may just play with improving the flow a bit more.

Dan


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## dfinn (28 Nov 2015)

Hi,

Well the diatoms seemed to have just disappeared over the past week. I have the lights running on full and that seemed to clear them! Also the Monte carlo is picking up and even Santa's in on the scape now  





Dan


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## dfinn (6 Dec 2015)

Major trim today, Monte carlo definitely picking up. I'm going to keep the hydrocotyle more limited as it get's a bit out of control. Aiming for a full backdrop of rotala!


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## dfinn (11 Dec 2015)

Realised I had set the auto doser wrong (well the instruction manual was wrong) so the ferts were only getting dosed every 2 days, oops.


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## tim (11 Dec 2015)

That's looking much better mate, lots of trimming to keep the hydro Japan in check, now clean your lily pipes you lazy bugger


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## dfinn (11 Dec 2015)

Ha, yeh I've asked for the lily pipe brush from Santa so they might get a scrub in the new year.


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## dfinn (10 Jan 2016)

Decided to remove quite a lot of the hydrocotyle as it was over shadowing the monte carlo. Now trying to encourage a full carpet in front of the wood. Major trim of the rotala too.

CO2 is looking a little on the low side too...time for a refill soon me thinks


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## Bacms (11 Jan 2016)

I am glad to see things are progressing better than what they were
Although it still seems to be affected by a small amount of brown algae


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## dfinn (11 Jan 2016)

Hi, 

Yeh the brown algae is the next thing to battle. First it was the diatoms, then the green stuff, now this....


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## aaron.c (11 Jan 2016)

Looking great. Awesome progress 


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## MedicMan (13 Jan 2016)

I found the brown stuff went away the more surface agitation I had. I also removed it on a daily basis.


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## dfinn (6 Feb 2016)

Hi everyone,

Current issue is all this horrid green stringy algae that is getting into my carpet and other plants. I have dimmed the lights a bit to see if that helps, would reducing ferts also help. CO2 is running on borderline yellow on the drop checker so not a lack of CO2, but circulation might be an issue?

BTW this was the state after I was away for a week, I promise it is not this shabby looking normally!





Any thoughts?


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## alto (6 Feb 2016)

For some reason this tank seems especially _gifted_ in the algae department 

Who's in your algae crew?
(I think that Stiphodon Gobies are likely the keenest consumers of this type of algae but look at their requirements & decide if they'd suit)

Meanwhile clean/physically remove as much as possible - may work to "twirl" with a brush (pretty sure there are some other journals where this sort of algae is discussed)
Daily water change & removal
Add some floating plants or check that rotala growth is vigorous (don't recall which variant) ie when in algae situation some fast growing plants are helpful


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## dfinn (7 Feb 2016)

Clean up crew is just 5 ottos. Not sure if my tank is a bit on the small side for gobies? Never kept them before. Yeh I am manually removing as much as I can and trying to keep the plants pruned to encourage fresh growth. 

Thanks


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## dfinn (21 Feb 2016)

Re-scape done randomly yesterday, the algae seems to be much more under control after I dimmed the lighting a tad and shortened the photo period by an hour.






Just need to let it all settle in. I have taken out the rotala as it was annoying me somehow, going for smaller bunches of bacopa and letting the anubias spread over the wood, and will encourage the carpet to fill in the gaps.


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## dfinn (9 Mar 2016)

Growing in


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## dfinn (9 Mar 2016)

Must be near FE change time, but still bubbling!


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## dfinn (28 Mar 2016)

Still pretty poor Monte Carlo growth and getting algae issues, as soon as I try to turn the light up above 50% it just takes hold over a couple of days. My DC is green, but feel the diffuser may not be as efficient as could be as I did repair a crack in it initially, might just replace this. Also I think flow was a major issue with the glass lily pipe which stemmed the return considerably. Have changed it today to the eheim one which although less aesthetically pleasing has massively increased flow.


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## dfinn (18 Apr 2016)

All seems to be going a bit wrong, general plants not flourishing and lots of algae, turned lights off for 4 days which seemed to clear most of it, not just got lights on for 4 hours a day. CO2 for 6 hours, 5ml EI Maco/ Micro alternate days. Feel like just ripping all the monte carlo out and replacing it with sand. Might add some more plant mass to try and help things, any thoughts


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## CooKieS (18 Apr 2016)

Hi, these tips might help:

-dose easycarbo daily to kill algae.
-more flow (skimmer for example)
-more CO2 (24/7, 1 bubble/3-4sec)
-lightning period: 6h/day non stop

Good luck!


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## dfinn (24 Apr 2016)

You know when you go to the aquarium shop for a couple of plants, but it leads to you buying way more than that and doing a full re-scape? Well......





Sorry about the poor pic, will get a better one when the room is dark.

I ripped out the carpet and the remaining hydrocotyle and added lilaeopsis novel-zealandia and alternanthera cardinalis. Also 2 new pieces of wood and pebbles rather than the ADA stone. A completely different look. Certainly more wild that before and will be interesting to see how it turns out. I think I am going to just order a new diffuser too so that I can eliminate the repaired crack in it as a potential issue.

Dan


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## Nelson (24 Apr 2016)

A lot better .


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## Bacms (24 Apr 2016)

Like the new look hopefully things will be more stable from now on


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## AndreiD (25 Apr 2016)

What fertilizers were you using before this new setup ? (i mean in the setup you got algae everywhere on monte carlo)


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## dfinn (25 Apr 2016)

EI macro/ micro auto dosed 10ml alternate days. Have reduced to 5ml now. Tank 35l so in total system volume is about 50l


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## dfinn (2 May 2016)

So I have just fitted the replacement CO2 inline diffuser. Turned it on and after a while now have tonnes of micro bubbles coming out of my return pipe (which I am assuming is CO2). If this is the case then the crack in my old diffuser may have not been very well repaired by me as I definitely didn't have these bubbles before. It will be interesting to see how plant growth/ algae are affected over the next few weeks.





Also taken a short video of the bubbles

http://vid1150.photobucket.com/albums/o604/chameleon24/IMG_2282_zpsru4pdrg8.mp4

Dan


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## GHNelson (2 May 2016)

Hi Dan
Get yourself some floaters!
The micro bubbles tell you the diffuser and regulator are running normally!
Raise your outlet pipe a tad.....for some gas exchange.
Do the largest water changes possible for the first few weeks!
Reduce your lighting to 50% and 6 hours per day!
On a last note...I have never done that well with some Invitro plants straight in to the aquarium either!
I usually try and get emersed or established plants from members first!
Cheers
hoggie


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## dfinn (2 Jul 2016)

Well it's all done a bit wrong, horrid film on surface keeps forming (have fitted sprayer point upwards to keep surface broken to stop it forming) and tank definitely smells funny. I am putting this all down to cyanobacteria which keep forming on the plants/ aqua soil. Annoyingly this tank has loads of flow, CO2 checker is green - yellow and auto dosed with EI ferts, 50% WC weekly. Lights dimmed too yet still can't get control of algae/ cyano - might just pack it in and sell the lot


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## dfinn (2 Jul 2016)

Tank all going a bit wrong, horrid film of surface keeps forming/ smells, sheets of green stuff on aqua soil/ glass/ clinging to plants which I think is cyanobacteria.

Today water change about 60%, added fluvial internal to increase flow (any more and will be a jacuzzi). My last ditch attempt is to also dose liquid carbon and add another hour of CO2 before lights on. CO2 now on 1pm - 8pm, lights 3pm - 9pm at about 50% brightness, dosing EI ferts automatically.

Close to getting rid of it all at this point, especially if the smell continues.

Today after clean/ water change:


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## Ryan Thang To (2 Jul 2016)

sorry to hear about your tank. im sure you can work it out. dont give up so easy. i had scape more tanks just to break it down after few months when things go wrong. i just learn from last time what i did wrong. you will definitely get there. 

are you using tap water also how hard is your g/h?
can you tell me what filter are you using?

cheers
ryan


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## dfinn (2 Jul 2016)

Unsure on GH, no test kit for it.

Filter is a Eheim 2215


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## Chris Jackson (2 Jul 2016)

Frustrating....! 

Might I suggest that you try switching from EI to a "duckweed index" type of fert regime.

ADA aquasoil and powersand is rich stuff and I'm not convinced that it is an ideal match to EI and that certainly is not how ADA use it. Overdosing on ferts and micro toxicity is not a popular subject here but many suggest that too many trace ferts in particular can cause many problems. When I ran aquasoil amazonia and EI I never entirely eradicated my cyano problems or surface film issues. Now using a lower dose all in one fert instead these troubles are history.


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## Ryan Thang To (2 Jul 2016)

oh ok. well i have a ada 60p with similar led to you with ada soil and eheim filter. i have to pump co2 for 4 hours before light come on. im using a ph probe with i think its better than a drop checker. 
now days when i set up a new tank i set it up without fish. loads of plants and co2 on for 24hours for 2 weeks and slowly turn it down. that what work for me. also your ada light is too powerful for your amount of plants you have. you need more plants and somehow reduce the lights. 

i also think using a lily pipe is better for flow and you can also add a eheim skimmer to come on when lights go off.


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## dfinn (2 Jul 2016)

Chris which 'lower dose' all in one fert are you using.

Legytt - I used to have a poppy style lily pipe but didn't get much flow as it deadened the water flow. Spray bar looks awful but much more flow.

Thanks for the help guys


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## Chris Jackson (2 Jul 2016)

dfinn said:


> Chris which 'lower dose' all in one fert are you using.
> 
> Legytt - I used to have a poppy style lily pipe but didn't get much flow as it deadened the water flow. Spray bar looks awful but much more flow.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys



You can use your EI powders to make up this all in one solution and the dose according to the needs of the plants.  If you add a few floating plants for reference then they get their CO2 from the air alone so their condition is an indicator purely of their fertiliser needs. Pale or yellow growth basically means add more ferts...


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## dfinn (8 Aug 2016)

Hi,

I have made the descision to close this tank down, fish have gone and equipment is drying out 


.

Mainly due to it all going a bit wrong and me losing the will to live with it, I appear to be rather talented at growing algae but not a lot else. 

I already have my next tank waiting in the wings for my next venture, no plants are involved this time 



Thanks for all your help throughout this project, unless anything changes the kit will be up for sale in the near future.

Dan


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## aaron.c (8 Aug 2016)

Hey Dan! Sorry to hear that.

Fwiw I think you needed more plant mass. I have had better luck when cramming a tank with fast stems 


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## Bacms (9 Aug 2016)

Sorry to hear that. I am also having a current nightmare with a second tank I set up that somehow just didn't work so I understand your decision. Good luck for the future


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## dfinn (10 Aug 2016)

All equipment now in for sale section.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...a-tank-aquasky-co2-kit-eheim-2213-more.42252/


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## Deansie (14 Aug 2017)

Jeeezzo, that was a sad tale in the end. Totally reminded me of my first attempt, I've just bought a light and will be trying again with a Ada 45 in the near future-had u read this I might have been reminded and not bothered lol.


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