# Filter flow rate for 5x2x2ft tank



## Madhav (21 Jul 2016)

Hi Experts...
I got my 5x2x2ft(400L) established Jewel tank from my friend who gave up his hobby.
it has an internal filter with a flow rate of 1050 lph. As I dont like that big filter in the tank, I invested on an Eheim 2075 with 1250 lph flow rate. Ran both for 2 months and then I shut off internal filter.
now its running on only eheim 2075, I dont see any problems so far as the bio load is low, 
10x xray tetras
7x rummy nose tetras
6x Harlequin Rasboras
nearly 100+ shrimps, 
its a planted tank with 30-40% of foot print is covered with plants with CO2, plants growing well.

Now after a month. I noticed, flow is not sufficient, the substrate near the filter inlet is clean and the substrate farthest to the filter inlet collecting mulm, dead leaves and detritus. front view of the tank showing inlet and outlet is as shown below.

my intention for running this tank on its own is to establish BB on the filter media. As I am planning to tear it down and re-scape from August 6 to 9. I am planning to move the live stock to a temporary 3ft tank with same eheim 2075 running on it and when my 5ft tank is ready, just move live stock and filter back.

my concern is, 
is the flow rate sufficient? my tank is 400L(100 Gal), Eheim 2075 is 1250 lph rated, I found this will fail at the rules(6-10x turn over). Is it a good idea to add another filter? if yes what filter do you suggest? another 2073 ?(1050 lph) or classic 270/250 just to increase the movement

I will not use the internal filter as I realized another shrimp colony inside the filter growing, I think they entered through the gap at outlet pipe and love to stay permanently there. 

Thanks in advance
Madhav


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## Madhav (21 Jul 2016)

My new scape will be fully planted with fast growing stem plants and 40-50 rummy nose tetras and some algae eating crew. if that helps in recommendations


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## rebel (21 Jul 2016)

I think the general wisdom is that you may need another filter. Same is better as you can just keep one set of spare parts for emergencies. Just fix it in a mirror image configuration to the above.


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## ian_m (21 Jul 2016)

Below is only x7 flow time volume for a 180litre tank (flow is 1400l/hr), this was certainly not enough, despite using the internal 600l/hr filter as well. There were CO2 dead spots and algae growth areas. Adding a 3200l/hr power head fixed that.


So you will need at least another two Eheim 2075's or change filters to something bigger in order to achieve 4000l/hr filter flow rate.

You maybe, with fiddling, might be able to get away with two Eheim 2075's and suitable positioning of power heads to get a suitable flow rate.

And no, having 5200l/hr in a 180litre (x28) doesn't blow everything away and leave the fish fighting the flow.


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## In2Aqua (21 Jul 2016)

If you're running CO2, good flow is a must. Many can fail on this point alone, it's just as important as consistent CO2 and adequate light levels.

You can get away with less bio-filtration in most well planted setups. The plants do a lot of filtration.

I'd dedicate maybe 5-7x turnover through a canister with bio-media and the rest just water movement with powerheads. And you'll need a strong powerhead for 400L, maybe 2000LPH or more in combination with your canister filter.


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## Madhav (22 Jul 2016)

rebel said:


> I think the general wisdom is that you may need another filter. Same is better as you can just keep one set of spare parts for emergencies. Just fix it in a mirror image configuration to the above.



thanks, I still have a bit of time to consider on the filter, my preference also another 2075 for the same reason you mentioned. 
will that mirroring the new filter along the back panel work? both outlets facing each other cause any turbulence? or the flow will go back to the inlet after hitting the flow from other filter?
how about the new filter outlet facing the front pane as shown in below pic?


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## Madhav (22 Jul 2016)

ian_m said:


> Below is only x7 flow time volume for a 180litre tank (flow is 1400l/hr), this was certainly not enough, despite using the internal 600l/hr filter as well. There were CO2 dead spots and algae growth areas. Adding a 3200l/hr power head fixed that.
> 
> 
> So you will need at least another two Eheim 2075's or change filters to something bigger in order to achieve 4000l/hr filter flow rate.
> ...





got it thank you for suggestion, my plan for now is to add another 2075 with minimum filter medium inside the canister to get enough flow. hmmm another 2x 2075 is definitely out of my budget. may be 2080 is another option that I need to explore

yes, I worry the flow rate too...is it too much for the fish to swim against? 
10x = 4000 lph


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## Madhav (22 Jul 2016)

In2Aqua said:


> If you're running CO2, good flow is a must. Many can fail on this point alone, it's just as important as consistent CO2 and adequate light levels.
> 
> You can get away with less bio-filtration in most well planted setups. The plants do a lot of filtration.
> 
> I'd dedicate maybe 5-7x turnover through a canister with bio-media and the rest just water movement with powerheads. And you'll need a strong powerhead for 400L, maybe 2000LPH or more in combination with your canister filter.



yes I am running compressed co2 with 1.5 bps currently, my DC is always lime green, may be its not accurate and I need to figure out more accurate way to measure co2 dissolved in water.
glass in-tank co2 diffuser is just under the outlet and the fine bubbles are carried with the flow and I dont seem to find the bubbles reaching the surface.

is it a good idea to leave the eheim filter outlet with a lily pipe and a 5ft rain bar connected to a power head an attach to the back pane and face the flow towards front pane? just as ian_m mentioned above with the video

here is the tank at this moment, I just dumped everything available randomly. excuse me for that. waiting for holidays to get my hands wet.


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## In2Aqua (22 Jul 2016)

Tank looks really good! Nice and healthy. Crisp and clean. Good work! 

I think the key with measuring CO2 concentration is to use a mixed-method approach. Drop checker is one method, you can combine this with pH testing.

pH can be used in two ways; 1pH drop method and pH/KH/CO2 table.

A maximum 1pH drop during the CO2 injection period should roughly equate to 30ppm CO2, but this only an approximation and not accurate in every case.

pH/KH/CO2 table will give you an idea of CO2 concentration also, but accuracy can suffer if you have acids present (from driftwood etc) affecting pH readings.

I highly recommend investing in a pH pen, one of the cheaper ones from ebay work ok for a rough idea. They can be prone to electrical interference and some other issues affecting performance so the reading is only useful as loose guide. They are good for 1pH drop method though, as you don't need super accurate results to achieve this.

Good luck!


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## Manisha (23 Jul 2016)

Not a bad start for a 'dump & run' I'm sure co2 is expensive on such a large tank?! 

Just as others have said 10x flow is the recommended optimum for a planted tank and is more important the larger a tank you have as flow will lose momentum as it has to travel longer distances. 

Attaching a spray bar along the length of the back pane would probably the best set up as when it reaches the front - I think it gets pushed down and also along the sides of the tank where there is most likely to be flow problems. 

Another important issue I've read on here is that flow should be uniform and travelling in the same direction (if flow patterns collide they cancel one another out).So the lily pipe from the eheim should be pointing the same direction for this reason.

However, all hobbyists don't always use the same methods and it can sometimes be trial and error finding out what works for you - good luck, you've made a great start!


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## Madhav (24 Jul 2016)

Manisha said:


> Not a bad start for a 'dump & run' I'm sure co2 is expensive on such a large tank?!
> 
> Just as others have said 10x flow is the recommended optimum for a planted tank and is more important the larger a tank you have as flow will lose momentum as it has to travel longer distances.
> 
> ...



thanks for wishing....
2L cylinder of Co2 fixed 2 months ago and its still going on, I am not sure how long more it will be available. refill costs me around 10USD. for me its manageable as i am going to stick to this one tank only.
another Eheim 2076 with 1250 lph on the way so i will have enough time to fiddle with the flow. 

how to determine whether we have proper flow or not through out the tank?

the tank a couple of moments ago... i see plant growth but at the same time some green algae also growing on rocks, I suspect the light is brighter and not enough co2 as i am running less than 2bps


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## Manisha (24 Jul 2016)

Hi, your tanks looking well 

For a tank that is struggling with algae problems - I've read increasing water changes can help (thrilling on a 400l tank I'm sure!)

Have your plants been in two months? If so, this is still a relatively new setup, another member advised the first three months are critical in the tank establishing and I guess this can be when it can also be vulnerable to getting algae.

If your worried perhaps reduce your light period? E.g. from 8hours per day to 7hours per day?
Liquid carbon can also be useful as there's a chemical in it that seems to kill algae (glutaraldehyde). Some members have used a solution of hydrogen peroxide applied directly onto the affected area which will kill algae.

The advantage at least if its on hardscape and not plants is it can be removed manually with a toothbrush without causing any damage!

Also having fast growing stems can help (which you have).


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## Manisha (24 Jul 2016)

...floating plants are also a good method of reducing light intensity as well!


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## David2016 (26 Jul 2016)

Hi , now that looks a really nice tank. 
It's the same size as my one I'll be doing in the autumn, so any problems you have I'll have . 
What's the co2 system ? In tank or external reactor? 
Hope mine looks as good.


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## Madhav (27 Jul 2016)

David2016 said:


> Hi , now that looks a really nice tank.
> It's the same size as my one I'll be doing in the autumn, so any problems you have I'll have .
> What's the co2 system ? In tank or external reactor?
> Hope mine looks as good.


Its in tank via glass diffuser, straight inder the outlet so bubbles are carried longer along with the stream before they reach the surface, using less than 2bps stem plants growing like crazy while ferns are stunned or not noticeable growth. Unfortunately algae is back so I reduced the photo period to 7 hours and will go to 6hrs in couple of days.

I still have 10 more days to strip it down....fingers crossed.

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## Madhav (27 Jul 2016)

just surprised to receive a 2080 big brother while I was waiting for 2076. 
apparently my friend was not sure what model the filter as he thrown away the box
and doesnt know about the little sticker at the clips. 
any way an extra 450lph is a bonus for me.(1700 lph -1250 lph)

two compartments filled with bio home plus, reddish brown media and 
one compartment is filled with lava rocks and coral chips mix( my friend kept Arowana earlier)

I discarded lava rocks and coral chips and planning to buy EhfiMech or coarse, medium and fine filter wool/pads

planning to use coarse pad at the bottom most then medium and fine wool on top in one compartment and this 
compartment goes to the bottom of the canister, just to supply clean water to the bio home not to clog the pores

did any one tried this? its exactly the opposite way how Ehiem works, Ehiem's fine filter is right below the
pump.

2080 was idle for six months, the pump is still working when I tested last night, do I need to do any servicing before 
I put it for running? basic cleaning done. not used any lubricant.

as this is meant to achieve close to 10x flow, how to achieve maximum flow? I am ok to have minimum filter media in this
just to save some BB incase...





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## Paul L (27 Jul 2016)

You won't want for any extra filtration. The 2080 makes the 2075 look miniscule! I run a 2075 & 2071 on my 55 gallon tank just incase one were to fail. I would like a 2080/81 but there's always something else to spend money on!
With regards to recommissionIng the 2080, if it were me I would replace all the seals, as the rubber can sometimes fail. It would give you peace of mind that the filter is in tip top condition.
Personally, I wouldn't use filter media from someone else's tanks, even from a good friend or family member. The risk to your tank inhabitants is too great. It wouldn't be cheap, but i would use eheim substrat pro, matrix, or a mixture of the two, seeded from your already established filter. It won't take long for the new media to become colonised by the old.
Your placement of the coarse, medium and fine foams sounds right to me. They will complement the pre filter pad in the top tray.


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## Madhav (29 Jul 2016)

Paul L said:


> You won't want for any extra filtration. The 2080 makes the 2075 look miniscule! I run a 2075 & 2071 on my 55 gallon tank just incase one were to fail. I would like a 2080/81 but there's always something else to spend money on!
> With regards to recommissionIng the 2080, if it were me I would replace all the seals, as the rubber can sometimes fail. It would give you peace of mind that the filter is in tip top condition.
> Personally, I wouldn't use filter media from someone else's tanks, even from a good friend or family member. The risk to your tank inhabitants is too great. It wouldn't be cheap, but i would use eheim substrat pro, matrix, or a mixture of the two, seeded from your already established filter. It won't take long for the new media to become colonised by the old.
> Your placement of the coarse, medium and fine foams sounds right to me. They will complement the pre filter pad in the top tray.


Thanks, I tried a test run and found its too noisy. And on close inspection, impeller also looks like worn out. I will replace all the seals and impeller and try again.... curious to see how the big brother performs.

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## Madhav (30 Jul 2016)

I replaced seals and wanted to replace impeller but my lfs ran out of stock for this impeller so i decided to give a try with seals replaced.
same problem even after changing the seals, no water being sucked and pushing out and impeller is noisy.

opened the impeller and decided to give it a facelift. it was looking like the pictures shown below, i scratched away very hard plastic looking deposits and tried again.
yes its working.....
anybody have this issue? foreign matter depositing on impeller magnet? the chips are not magnetic so im sure i didnt damage the magnet.


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## Madhav (30 Jul 2016)

Status of the tank as of last night....plants right half reached the surface and bent, leaving lot of shadow for the plants below. Still growing an inch a day and pearling like crazy...



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## Paul L (30 Jul 2016)

Looking at the pictures the impeller looks different to those in the 2071-2075. Is it all one piece or does it come apart, ie, magnet, impeller and ceramic shaft?
The magnet body looks very scored and worn.
Re the deposits you removed from it, it could be that it wasn't cleaned in a long time and it was all firmly stuck on.
Was the filter previously used on a marine set up? I ask this because the water hardness and calcium levels can impact on filter components.
Is it still noisy, is the flow good from the outlet?


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## Madhav (30 Jul 2016)

Paul L said:


> Looking at the pictures the impeller looks different to those in the 2071-2075. Is it all one piece or does it come apart, ie, magnet, impeller and ceramic shaft?
> The magnet body looks very scored and worn.
> Re the deposits you removed from it, it could be that it wasn't cleaned in a long time and it was all firmly stuck on.
> Was the filter previously used on a marine set up? I ask this because the water hardness and calcium levels can impact on filter components.
> Is it still noisy, is the flow good from the outlet?


Paul, 
Yes, its different from 2071-2075, I am referring to the shaft of 2080,  I am not sure how its scoured until this state. I scraped off whatever possible and its working now but not as silent as 2075, you can hear some humming noise. However its not that bad. 2075 is super quiet. I decided to run 2080 to see if I will have any more problems or not. I ordered the impeller and waiting for it to arrive

Flow is almost equivalent to 2075 as I stuffed filter with coarse and fine filter sponges. Once I fill with substratpro ehfimech and have the impeller replaced then lets see.

Filter was used in fresh water tank only. But used coral chips as media, it might have  contributed to this deposition.

-Madhav

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## Madhav (30 Jul 2016)

Impeller is single piece including vanes, magnet and ceramic bushing. Shaft is different, 

Rotation of impeller on the shaft is smooth, no visible wear on the shaft.


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## Paul L (30 Jul 2016)

The coral chips could have caused calcification build up on the impeller if it's not been cleaned regularly.
I used to soak  impellers and pumps used on reef tanks in white vinegar to soften and remove coralline algae. It helped stop it building up on the moving parts and affecting their performance.
Looking at the specs of the 2080 it should far exceed the output of the 2075 when you replace the impeller.


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## Madhav (30 Jul 2016)

Paul L said:


> The coral chips could have caused calcification build up on the impeller if it's not been cleaned regularly.
> I used to soak  impellers and pumps used on reef tanks in white vinegar to soften and remove coralline algae. It helped stop it building up on the moving parts and affecting their performance.
> Looking at the specs of the 2080 it should far exceed the output of the 2075 when you replace the impeller.


Thanks for the tip...Paul, I will try white vinegar tomorrow

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## Madhav (18 Aug 2016)

Plants doing good and growing like crazy, been busy with work and in two weeks its out of shape...need an hour or two for trimming, no place for replanting. 
Bought another circulation pump with a rated 2000 lph and only 2.5w power rating. Awesome little pump. Can see the flow is greatly improved.

I placed it close to the substrate so as not disturb substrate but want to direct all debris to filter intake at the left side.

Now running only during photo period, is it ok or is it a good idea to run 24 hours?


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