# Advice on substrate



## kellyboy47 (7 Feb 2013)

Hi,

I have a 60 litre tank planted with Elodea Densa, Java Fern (on bogwood), a couple of Crypts and Anubias on stone. I have about 2" of 2-4mm quartz gravel as a substrate .
My tank includes Penguin tetras, Danios and 4 Corydoras  but I have heard Corys prefer a much finer substrate and I am intrigued by them so I was thinking of either playsand or something like Dennerle Professional Mix. Would either of these be suitable and can either be placed on top of the gravel or should I remove the gravel completely and just have one of these or any other suggested substrates . Decisions ? Thanks Trev


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## biffster (7 Feb 2013)

i use playsand i also use cat little . i always use a thin layer of aquatic compost 
under my play sand and i have had some pretty good results with it i have also 
had results with cat litter as well but i stand corrected as i am a new comer to 
planted tanks for year i did rock and bog wood based aquascape what a boring 
person i was lol i am glad i found aquarium plants and aquascaped tanks


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## Jason Greenslade (7 Feb 2013)

Playsand (B&Q or even cheaper at Argos) is ideal for Cories.  But I would hazard a guess they would be fine with Unipac limpopo if you wanted something darker.  There is no reason not to have a layer or aquatic compost underneath, or even one of the enriched substrates like Colombo Florabase or even Tropica plant substrate.  Bear in mind when you pull plants up you may well bring whats underneath up with them so my preference (and what I am going to be using me my sort of low tech scape next) would be for the Tropica stuff, with a gravel tidy to separate the two layers.  Of course, you still need to be careful as some plants develop big root systems, but a bit of gentle excavation around the plant base and snipping with a pair of scissors will help   Its nice to see someone giving consideration to the right substrate for their fish, so bonus points for that


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## biffster (7 Feb 2013)

thats a good idea where do i find gravel tidies now i have not seen them in years 
a few years ago i was looking for some and found out now one stocked them any more


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## kellyboy47 (7 Feb 2013)

So would you say then that I should dispense with the gravel and have a compost / sand based system or could I put the sand on top of the original gravel.
especially as I do use Easycarbo and AquariumPlantFood ferts for my plants


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## stu_ (7 Feb 2013)

biffster said:


> thats a good idea where do i find gravel tidies now i have not seen them in years
> a few years ago i was looking for some and found out now one stocked them any more


 
Greenhouse shading from a garden centre. Make sure it's plastic


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## biffster (7 Feb 2013)

i dont you would gain anything from capping gravel with sand to be honest and sand 
will only fall through the gravel but i do stand corrected


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## biffster (7 Feb 2013)

stu_ said:


> Greenhouse shading from a garden centre. Make sure it's plastic


i will check that out cheers


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## Jason Greenslade (7 Feb 2013)

stu_ said:


> Greenhouse shading from a garden centre. Make sure it's plastic


 
Thanks Stu, thats exactly what I was going to suggest.


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## kellyboy47 (8 Feb 2013)

Thanks for all your advice but I am still a bit confused....if I were to go for a top layer of playsand for my Corys would I still need a layer of for example Tetra Complete substrate underneath the sand  with a layer of greenhouse shading in between the two ?


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## biffster (8 Feb 2013)

i dont but i am willing to try it


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## dean (12 Feb 2013)

If the plants are doing fine and you don't want to strip the tank down simply add the sand, yes it will fall between the stones but you only have to put in enough to have it cover the existing stones. 
Wash small amounts at a time as it can be very dirty, especially the cheaper it is, wash it until water runs clean whilst stiring it all the time, them when you think it's clean, give it a really good stir and wash it some more 
The darker the colour the of the base the better colours you will get out of your corydoras, unless they are albino 
Unipac do black sand


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## biffster (13 Feb 2013)

use a pillow case to wash your sand in saves a lot 
of hassle


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## kellyboy47 (21 Feb 2013)

Morning Guys
Have finally taken the plunge and bought TetraPlant Complete and some greenhouse shading to act as a barrier between the TPC and a top layer of either Argos Playsand, Tesco Cat Litter or Caribsea Black Sand
bearing in mind that the tank will not be used for shrimps but for my Corys, Danios etc but wondered what folk thought of my choices. I am also awaiting delivery of some Dragon Stone and want to try and use carpeting plants so any suggestions as to the type of plants that would compliment what I have bought will be gratefully received
When planting in the substrate is it best to use weights on the plants and do you plant through the greenhouse shading into the TPC or from the top layer ?
So many questions I know but I really am in need of some advice 
Thanks
Trev


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## kellyboy47 (26 Feb 2013)

Still would like some good advice on my last post as have been to Pets at Home as they sell Tropica plants. I was speaking to an assistant and she said I should steer clear of sand as when it comes to water changes it is a nightmare as it goes everywhere and she discouraged me even more when I said I have Corys.

As I have said I have already bought TPC for a bottom layer, some greenhouse shading as a tidy for either sand, cat litter or gravel but would like to know the pros and cons of all 3.
 Does the cat litter make a mess when doing water changes and is it ok for Corys ?


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## jack-rythm (26 Feb 2013)

I wouldn't listen to much to the worker In pets at home.. If u do the water changes properly I can't see how it would end up all over ur tank. I had fine play sand with about 9 corydoras and never had an issue. If u want to use sand, use sand  

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## kellyboy47 (26 Feb 2013)

Hi Jack...thanks for your comments

With regard to below what would you suggest ?





kellyboy47 said:


> want to try and use carpeting plants so any suggestions as to the type of plants that would compliment what I have bought will be gratefully received
> When planting in the substrate is it best to use weights on the plants and do you plant through the greenhouse shading into the TPC or from the top layer ?
> 
> Trev


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## Palm Tree (26 Feb 2013)

First of all sand is the best substrate for corys, I'd steer way clear of tesco cat litter. If you are dosing dry ferts you do not need a nutrient rich base layer although if it was me i'd still use soil underneath . There is no need for a gravel tidy either.
Regarding plants an easy beginners carpeting plant is hairgrass, but just have a look and see what you like personally.


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## jack-rythm (27 Feb 2013)

Palm Tree said:


> First of all sand is the best substrate for corys, I'd steer way clear of tesco cat litter. If you are dosing dry ferts you do not need a nutrient rich base layer although if it was me i'd still use soil underneath . There is no need for a gravel tidy either.
> Regarding plants an easy beginners carpeting plant is hairgrass, but just have a look and see what you like personally.


I agree but the hairgrass for me can be painstaking if your not running co2. As for weights for the plants, you shouldn't have to add anything on to the bottom at all, just push firmly into the soill and it will stay..once planted after a couple of weeks it should anchor itself in the soils. It's right in thinking not to worry to much on soils and make your priorities about keeping the water column rich and focussing on distribution. I use soils just to give me a helping hand but there are others that do not and have wonderful success. With Cuba it is best to cut of half the rock wool but keep maybe half a cm on the bottom and the cut into cubes with a very sharp blade. You will be now able to just push these in and it should hold nicely. Go to you tube and type in "preparing Cuba" a video will pop up from TGM. That should help.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## kellyboy47 (27 Feb 2013)

Palm Tree said:


> . There is no need for a gravel tidy either.
> .


 
So there is no need for this layer then... only in an earlier post from a fellow member he suggested I would need one  as otherwise the sand will fall through....so just to get things straight....TPC as a bottom layer with sand as a top layer is OK yes ...will probably use a DIY CO2 kit in this 54l tank but will use the dry EI salts in the 180l tank only


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## Palm Tree (27 Feb 2013)

kellyboy47 said:


> So there is no need for this layer then... only in an earlier post from a fellow member he suggested I would need one as otherwise the sand will fall through....so just to get things straight....TPC as a bottom layer with sand as a top layer is OK yes ...will probably use a DIY CO2 kit in this 54l tank but will use the dry EI salts in the 180l tank only


Yes that would be ok for the substrate. The idea with the gravel tidy I don't really understand, I don't think it would stop substrate mixing because it wouldn't happen anyway unless you was stiring it. If roots got tangled in it it would make pullling up plants impossible without cutting the roots.
Regarding CO2 diy is not really recommended as it can cause fluctuating CO2 levels, liquid carbon, either store brought like easycarbo or diluted glutraldehyde is generally the prefered option regarding low cost CO2.
When you say you will use the dry salts on the 180l tank only how will you be dosing this tank? You may still need to fertilize the tank even with a Tetra plant complete base layer.


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## kellyboy47 (28 Feb 2013)

Palm Tree said:


> Regarding CO2 diy is not really recommended as it can cause fluctuating CO2 levels, liquid carbon, either store brought like easycarbo or diluted glutraldehyde is generally the prefered option regarding low cost CO2.
> When you say you will use the dry salts on the 180l tank only how will you be dosing this tank? You may still need to fertilize the tank even with a Tetra plant complete base layer.


 
So if I use Easycarbo with EI ferts in this 54l tank this will suffice ?


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## Palm Tree (28 Feb 2013)

Yes that would be the way to go, obviously the best option would be pressurised CO2 but I understand thats not always a viable option.


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