# My venture into my new 760 ltr planted tank .



## Always Broke (3 Mar 2010)

Hi all.
I am Simon.
I thought I would start an artical about my first real aquarium.
A little history first.
I love fish and Radio controlled aircraft 
I have kept fish indoors before in a small way, but that is over 20 years ago in our first house
After moving to our current house we built a koi pond. Not a bad size being 4100 gallons with a bout 700 gallons of that being indoors in the conservatory.All block built and fiberglased out.The outside being 6ft 6" deep and inside just over 2ft. We have been running this for about 8 years. This has worked well we have had a lot of pleasure from it. Times are changing and we have different interests now and also we wanted to alter the house a bit. Also the inside pond dose cause problems with the conservatory and involves lots of cleaning. 
A walk in wardrobe was to take a 1/3rd of the conservatory along with a built in cupboard for coats and such like.
This meant that there was no room left to put chairs and such like. The decision was to remove the inside pond and later on in the future to get rid of the outside pond. We both like fish and we both like plants so we thought a planted tank would be the way forward for us. 
So the work on rearranging the house has been done over the last 3 months. 
So we now have a smaller conservatory with room for the tank and plenty of space to sit and enjoy it. 
So here are a few pictures so far.

Emptying the inside part of the pond after the rest of the conservatory had been re-allocated 




There is a bottom drain in this section which feed my bead filter. This had to be re plumbed to the pumps on the other system that runs from the outside bottom drains. 



The hole in the wall is sealed with some 20mm acrylic sheet. I will make a port hole on the inside at a later date to view the fish under water. 



So after a lot of demolition and rebuilding I have a room again complete with a stand for the tank.



Stand is made from 4x2" CLS with 18mm MDF and Pine to finish it off to match the rest of the room.
doors are on magnetic catches so they can be removed.
One of the intermediate  supports is only screwed in place so I can get my sump tank in.





Inside is lined with 3mm white UPVC sheet . A 11/2" wast pipe is fitted that is plumbed to my outside drain and a water supply. The water supply come's from a cartridge filter so I can add what ever preconditioning cartridges are needed. Power is provided along with a 5 ft tube for maintenance 




The tank will be a 7ftx2ftx2ft  ft at approx 760 ltrs with a 60"x15"x15" sump. The tank is drilled and has weirs at both back corners. Return pipe work will be external exiting the right hand end of the stand. The tank stands about 3" from the wall at this end.
The tank is ordered along with the sump and should be delivered in 3 to 4 weeks time.

I will be asking lots and lots of question from now on along with reading as much as possible on the site.
Thats it for now. Off out to get the carpet.

Regards Simon


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## andyh (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new aquariam.*

Excellent Journal so far! Indoor pond is v cool! I can see why you user name is Always Broke!   

Thats going to be a big planted tank! Cant wait to to see this journal develop, keep it updated!


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## NeilW (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new aquariam.*

That inside pond was an awesome idea.  Did the Koi used to come in inside often or did they prefer it outside?


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## Always Broke (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new aquariam.*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> That inside pond was an awesome idea.  Did the Koi used to come in inside often or did they prefer it outside?



 I only fed them inside . A 30" fish taking food out of your hand is an awesome thing. Funny thing is that some fish preferred to be fed by the wife and others by me.
Sometimes there would be a queue of them waiting to swim in the hole which is about 15" in diameter. 

Simon


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## Always Broke (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new aquariam.*

My first few questions are
Do I paint the back of the tank. Once its there is not going anywhere. If so is black the best way forward.

Secondly I need to think about the substrate. . I have  no idea what to use .The one thing for sure is I will need lots of it. I have been reading about using Akadama . Is this a good way for me to go.

I also need to come up with some sort of design. I suppose the best way is some inspiration from other set-ups.
I know nothing about plants at all which means not knowing what to start with.
Fish wise I have no idea what to keep. The wife likes the idea of small shoals of fish where as I like individual specimens. 
What is the best way for the lighting. I presume I will need to add Co2 . I can build most of that myself. 
Must stop to many questions at the moment .
Simon


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## Ajm200 (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

If you aren't sure about the colour don't go for a painted background as the paint will be a nightmare to remove and you'll be stuck with it if you hate it.  If you want to check out the look of different colours, maybe try a roll of paper from an art shop and only go for paint when you like the effect.

You could try static cling vinyl.  The diffused backgrounds that some of the guys on here are using look great when they are back-lit.  Applying it over such a large area may be tricky though.  You can also get this stuff in black from a local sign writers and they mat be willing to apply it too for a small fee.  The advantage is that you can remove it later if you tire of it or want to sell the tank


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## sanj (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

How about this for inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwOlz-rcFs

you got rid of an amazing pond for a...wardrobe!!!! 

Oh well we all make mistakes.   

I have an 8'x2'x2', but soon looking to upgrade, its not in the best shape as I intended, but currently am growing out plants ready for the new project. I would say use a black background or the clear frosted type(there are some posts on here about it). 

I have an older vid if you want to see, and of course you can make your scape alot nicer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr66AH4RmNk


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## LondonDragon (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Looks promising, the indoor pond was a cool idea, looking forward to how the port hole will look, would have been nice if you made it a large rectangle wall so you have two tanks the room


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## Always Broke (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looks promising, the indoor pond was a cool idea, looking forward to how the port hole will look, would have been nice if you made it a large rectangle wall so you have two tanks the room



If I had been building it from scratch again I would have done that. The indoor part did have a 4 ft x18" glass panel in it for viewing. I had to get that specially made at Pilkington glass being 22mm laminated. Saved that when I took it all apart . Perhaps I will find someone that can use it. It cost Â£500 8 years ago.


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## Always Broke (3 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> How about this for inspiration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwOlz-rcFs
> 
> you got rid of an amazing pond for a...wardrobe!!!!
> 
> ...



Simon


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## alzak (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I love the idea with indoor/outside pond great stuff   

looks like now you will have a bit more work with this huge tank than with a pond  

good luck with it and look forward to see some updates


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## Always Broke (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Been thinking of my filter.
This is built in a 60"x15"x15" tank under the main tank. Its fed via 2 weirs in the main tank.
This is my first idea. All suggestions and help needed 
The first section approx 18" long will be a quarantine tank. Thought this may be a good idea. I have nowhere else to put one and everything I got for my koi pond was quarantined so I presume this would be the same. 
This can be filled from the main tank by opening the valve . It has a pump to empty it to waste.The internal filter would normally live in the pump chamber until needed. This section would also have its own heater and water top up valve.
The water from the main tank enters the pre filter stage. This consists of 5 foam blocks 100 mm square and 250 mm long. These are easy to clean.The tops of these would be open so if they block unexpectedly then water will rise in this section and flow down the centre of the pies thus still retaining water flow. I would alarm this section to inform me this has happened. There will be water level alarms fitted in the pump chamber as well for both high and low.  Water has to pass through these into the fist bio chamber and then onto the second bio chamber . Medea for these could be Siporax and its copy's as I have loads of it.Anything else could be used if its any better.  Water then flows into the pump chamber. In here would be my home made CO2 reactor.The power head is to re circulate the gas collected at the top. I have some 100 mm diameter clear Acrylic tube I could make this from being clear I could see how effective it is . The pump returns water to the tank.Also the heaters could go in this section perhaps I also have a couple of fluid bed filters that could run in this section for added bio filtration.The auto water top up float valve would also live in here. The filter chambers would have lids fitted, perhaps from thick acrylic onto rubber seals to retain the CO2 in the system. There would be very little disturbance to the water surface in this filter as it will be a totally wet one,as most are wet and dry. A bit of experimenting with water levels to take into account of a pump faliure would be needed, so as to not send loads of water down the overflow.

If you can understand the drawing. I am not a PC type person and used paint for the first time to draw it. 





These are just my first ideas. All comments please. I have build lots of successfully koi filters but never tried to build an  aquarium one.

Simon


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## Tunafish (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Awesome size tank!, hope your cabinets built like a rhino and structurally sound to take such a weight!. Layout wise, well actually everything wise, check out Takashi Amano's Angel Tank for inspiration!.


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## sanj (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Sounds good, I know this might sound silly, but just to confirm your quarantine is seperate from the normal running of the rest of the system?


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## Always Broke (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Sounds good, I know this might sound silly, but just to confirm your quarantine is seperate from the normal running of the rest of the system?



Yes it is seperate. 

Simon


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## Always Broke (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Tunafish said:
			
		

> Awesome size tank!, hope your cabinets built like a rhino and structurally sound to take such a weight!. Layout wise, well actually everything wise, check out Takashi Amano's Angel Tank for inspiration!.




This is stunning 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xjV6_3Xgoc&feature=related

Simon


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## Always Broke (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

been doing looking into CO2 bottles locally.
Local company can supply a full 6.3kg bottle at Â£55 +vat. They charge Â£9.70 for a refill and the are only a few miles away.
Also it fits under the tank .

I see there are plenty of people doing regs on Ebay with solenoid's . Has anyone used these or what do you recommend. 

Simon


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## Kosh42-EFG (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

That's a brilliant price for CO2... When I had a reef tank I had to go to an aquatic supplier for refils... I think they were about Â£25 then...

Sounds a brilliant project... Best of luck with it...


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## Always Broke (4 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Found the Regulator to go with the bottle. 
UK supplied at Â£29.60 +Â£6.95 postage .





Just need to sort a needle valve now. 

Simon


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## Always Broke (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I got the first part of my system yesterday. 
The 6.3kg Co2 bottle . This came from a local supplier .Cost was Â£65 . Refilling it will be Â£10 inclusive so that all seams good. They had a few different format bottles of the same capacity but this was the shortest. I had to cut a hole in my false bottom to fit it but that acts as a support for it.





I have also ordered the regulator along with my  pre filter sponges and some pipework.
At least that's a start.

Now I need some help with the substrate. I am going to need a fair amount. How much would yo think I need.

Simon


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## Mark Webb (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Simon, I am currently planning a large tank and I have gone for Akadama as a substrate. 

Heres a thread which is well worth a read, you will find the calculation to give you the qauntity you need in the thread. The only downside is washing it. I used 9 bags and it took me 5-6 hours to wash it.

*Akadama Thread*

I look forward to following your progress.


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## Always Broke (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Mark Webb said:
			
		

> Hi Simon, I am currently planning a large tank and I have gone for Akadama as a substrate.
> 
> Heres a thread which is well worth a read, you will find the calculation to give you the qauntity you need in the thread. The only downside is washing it. I used 9 bags and it took me 5-6 hours to wash it.
> 
> ...



I have been reading that thread today Mark and it seams that this is a good way to go on my set up. I was thinking of getting 12 bags. This will probably give some spare but I am not sure how deep it will be at the rear yet as I have no design for my scape at the moment. 
5 or 6 hours washing, that sounds like fun.
Where did you get yours from.  Mail order seams to be around Â£11 per bag.
I think this is what we will get next and at least I can start washing it in smaller amounts.
Have you any pictures of your new set up. 

Simon

Simon


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## Mark Webb (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I collected my Akadama from the Bonsai Nursery in Kent which James mentioned in the thread. @ Â£9 per bag.

I have started a thread for my setup   * here*


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## Always Broke (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Mark Webb said:
			
		

> I collected my Akadama from the Bonsai Nursery in Kent which James mentioned in the thread. @ Â£9 per bag.
> 
> I have started a thread for my setup   * here*



Nice one Mark. I presume that tank is the same one as in your gallery set up as Marine. 
I had a 30" tank many years ago and it was a nightmare for me as I am only 5ft 3.
I shall be watching with great interest.

Simon


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## jonnyjr (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Looking forward to seeing this project develop. Should be a stunning tank!


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## Always Broke (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				jonnyjr said:
			
		

> Looking forward to seeing this project develop. Should be a stunning tank!



Thanks, I hope so. The wife and I were sitting down talking about it this evening looking at the empty space where the tank will go. We decided that the first year or two so should just be committed into understanding what we need to do to keep the plants in good health. After that we will think about how best to display them. As we know nothing at all at the moment its going to be a steep learning curve. We are going to find plants that are fairly easy to grow and take it from there. I am interested in the technical side of making the system work. So with both of us working at it I am sure we could have a good set up in the future. Its a case of not trying to run before you can walk. Perhaps starting off with such a big system dose not indicate that but I believe in bigger volumes of water are more stable once you have them under control. I also want to produce a fairly hi tech water set up ultimately running by its self.
So at the moment we are trying to make a simple plant list with perhaps a maximum of 10 different plants .
Once we have developed the skills to maintain them then we can try others and perhaps harder ones. Also by then I will understand what I need to do to keep the water at its best. 

Simon


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## Always Broke (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I have also been looking at lights

Dose this seem to be suitable. 
Runs 4 80w T5 tubes 
Is it a problem that it is only 1500mm long and my tank is 2100mm long 

ARCADIA FRESHWATER OVER TANK LUMINAIRE OT2 1500MM AG74TF






Simon


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## Garuf (6 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Personally if I were you I'd be looking at either a custom built (read as diy) Led's or haldie/t5 combo. It depends on your level of expertise and time but I think it would be the right way to go as from the journal I get the impression it's not going to be open top?


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## Always Broke (7 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

The tank was going to be open top. I could build something but I did like the look of these super slim unites. If I need more lighting than this can offer then thats what I will have to do.
Do yo think this is powerfull enough with the 4 80w T5  lamps. From reading other posts I would have thought 320w in a tank this size would be enough.

Simon


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## Garuf (7 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hmm. I do see the attraction. The issue with big tanks is that halide comes into it's own in this arena. I'd guess it's plenty, if you look on the finch family guide that will give you a very rough ball park estimate to work towards. 
I really would be considering halide though, with big tanks it always strikes me as the logical step. That said, looking at Tom Barrs tanks he rarely uses it these days, his tanks will give you a much clearer idea on just how many and what lighting would be best as his tanks are firmly in tune with science rather than outmoded doctrin. His big tank I think is roughly similar in dimensions, search it up, it's been posted recently in it's rescaped guise and that will give you a clearer idea.
I seem to think it has 6 tubes though...


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## samc (7 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

i would also consider halides. IMO t5s and t8s dont penetrate deep tanks very well.


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## Always Broke (9 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

As I am still awaiting the arrival of my tank I have been getting some other bits together. In my sump tank I wanted a pre filter stage that is easy to maintain. I used an Idea that I once used to polish water leaving my koi pond filters.
I bought some foam filter blocks. 100 mm square and about 200mm long with a hole bored in them. I have mounted 5 of these to an acrylic baffle using 38mm tank connectors. I have also bought 2 spares so its easy to rotate clean ones all the time. Water will flow through the foam and out of the tank connectors into the bio chambers. 












 I am hopeful to be able to get 7000ltrs per hour through these easily. Once I have sorted my levels out I will drill a overflow hole in the baffle in case of a blockage .At least then I will still have circulation. I will alarm this feature so at least I will now its happening. 

I have also got the 32mm return pipe work to make the spray bar from .
As this is black pipe and I am going to use a black background I hope it will all but vanish. I just need to work out the amount of holes and spacing. 
I am also ordering the Akadama tomorrow. I reckon 126 ltrs of it will give me a bit left over. I could find nowhere local that sold it so ordering it on line. At least I can start washing it out.

Simon


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## dw1305 (10 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi all,
I use the "Kettering Koi" 12" x 4" x 4" blocks with central hole on my powerhead powered sponge filters. Not pretty but very effective. 
cheers Darrel


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## Always Broke (10 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I would imagine they would work very well in that instance. 
Substrate is now ordered so looks like the weekend will be spent washing it.
Also need to spend a few hours on the Koi pond. Looks like there wont be time for much else.
I also want to experiment with the spray bar and flow rates. I can use the Pond to do that at the same time.

Simon


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## danmil3s (10 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

if it helps im using a 35 mm X 19885 mm spray bar on my tank same size as yours with a sequence 1000 at about half power and the waters moving nice how ever im having problems with algae  so going to [post in the ferts section now


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I am going to try one of my Aquamax pumps. I have  the 3500 / 5000/10000 or 16000 to experiment with. I hope the 10000 will be perfect. It should pump around 7000 ltrs at the head I will have. Just a mater of getting the spray bar correct.The one advantage of these pumps is there very low running costs. I will use 32mm black waste pipe to experiment with and once I am happy with it I will change to CPVCu which I can get in clear pipe. Also it lasts for ever 
I also intended to incorporate one in the tank itself for water change purposes. I can then think about automating the system. Being the tank is 2ft wide I am sure I can hide this sort of equipment  I have plenty of time to play with this stuff. 

Simon


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## danmil3s (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

i found when i had the suequence 1oooo running at max it pulled up all my plants and pushed my fish against the glass i thought geting 7000 lph out the spray bar would be good turned out to be over kill let me know how you get on. oh also the 1.5" waste pipe i had on the tank could not cope empted the sump in seconds had to add a 1.5" over flow box to help but i think you said you already had 2 .as for water changes im setting up a drip system there's a post about that here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10128


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I have two 1 1/4" feeds from the bottom drilled tank. They might not be enough to supply my 700o ltrs. I will have to wait and see on that one. I can throttle the pump down or use perhaps a 5000 and add some circ pumps in the tank if needed.
Time will tell. 
I will follow your drip system and see how you get on.

Simon


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## danmil3s (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9864
thats a link to the spray bar post although your diy is very different to mine yours is more professional i tend to make things out of coke bottles and bits of string


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## danmil3s (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

another think i dont know how your overflow pipes are protected but i keept finding shrimp and the odd fish  in my sump till i used a sponge at the in take


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## FishBeast (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

For your co2 regulator you will need one of the solonoid ones you mentioned so that you can have it shut off when your lights are out.

This is going to be an amazing journal and I am both excited and very jealous  I love massive tanks and technical stuff. Have you though about rainbow fish?


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I forgot about the Co2 Reg. Yes I ended up buying one with a solenoid valve and a needle valve attached. I don't go much on the needle valve but I can always sort that if it is a problem.
Not even given fish any real consideration at all at the moment. To much to take in with just plants .

Simon


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## paul.in.kendal (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Simon
This is an incredible set-up - hats off to you for your vision!

You say in the first year or two you will concentrate on growing plants well, only subsequently  working on their presentation.  My guess is you'll be quickly very frustrated by the tank if you don't at least try to succeed with the design layout from the outset.  You've obviously got lots of technical ability and a systematic approach to things - if you take your time with the hardscape and planting layout, using UKAPS as a sounding board, there's no reason you can't hit the ground running on this.  

I'd visit The Green Machine if you haven't already, to see their spectacular display tanks.  I'd go for halides too, if only for the glitter lines that animate a tank so beautifully - really mesmerising.  And for fish - a big shoal of something medium to small gets my vote.

What a great project!


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Its probably sounds sill but I have no idea where to start in the hardscape of this tank.
One problem I have is that there is nowhere local that sells decent hard scape materials. Living way down in Cornwall we are a bit out of it. Then thats not a good enough reason. More importantly I am not artistic in any way. 
I am also putting most of my thoughts into getting the tank hardware sorted first. I intended to print out loads of scape's from the net and try to come up with something. 
Plenty of time for that. At the moment I am making a jig to mill the slots in the spray bar.

Simon


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## sanj (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Is Trimar any good? I think they are in Cambourne.


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

"Is Trimar any good? I think they are in Cambourn."

Not a bad shop but not really into plants and scapes . Had a look around there last weekend.
They do seam to have lots of fish though.
There is a  good shop in our garden centre which is part of a chain of shops.They are very helpful. They do have a few bits but again the cater for the fish people really. They were very helpful though and I got my tank ordered through them and they will get anything I want. They will bulk order my plants for me.
I must say that there is a young lady working there is is most helpful.


This was the first attempt at slots in the spray bar. The tube is 32mm and the slots are 70x6mm. It seams a good place to start. I can reduce or increase the slot width . The spray bar will be about 2 mtrs long. Just used a router running on a guide to cut them . Makes a lot of black mess


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## dw1305 (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi all,  





> Living way down in Cornwall


.
Good place to live, you've either got the moor(s)  or coast for a some artistically shaped bog/drift wood, and you've got a ready supply of granite for some very attractive cobbles.
cheers Darrel


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I wanted to replace the needle valve that came with my Co2 reg and also I wanted two outputs. I am now thinking of running a pair of Aquamedic 1000 Co2 reactors. So just in case I do that I bought two valves 
I also bought the fittings / "T" peice and tubing to connect the valves to my Regulator. This is all using 6mm tube and
Top quality Camozzi needle Valves 

The original valve is on the right with one of the new ones on the left. 





Simon


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## Steve Smith (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Mr Farmer collected these cobbles and rocks in Cornwall:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8520


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## Always Broke (11 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Stunning use of those stones. 
Where do these ideas come from. There are certainly non in my head 
Simon


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## Always Broke (13 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Auto Water change 





The Mains powered timer turns on and energises the coil of the relay.( the green one ). This makes the contacts and connects the power to the blue relay by shorting out the float switch and the relays open contacts . The timer would then turn off. It only needs to be set for a second or two. Its just there to start everything off. The green relay is only there as the timer has a 240v AC output and I want to turn on a 12v item. I might be able to source a timer that has a switched output rather than a powered one , if so I can do away with the green relay and use the timer switch contacts to latch the blue relay.

As the float switch is in a normally closed position (this is mounted in the main tank at the low level cut off) this will allow this relay to stay activaited. This relay will now stay activated until that float switch drops and breaks the circuit.
 Using a second set of contacts in this relay this will now run the 240v pump that will drain the tank.
At the same time a float switch located in the top of the main tank will make contact as the water drops. The float switch in there will drop and make the circuit to its relay.( the uncoloured one) This will turn off the sump return pump until the water level rises again which it will do when the main tank is filled with water.

Once the main tank water level drops to the level set by the float switch the switch will break the circuit , the relay will open and the pump will stop.
The water level in the tank will rise until it reaches its level and is stopped by a float valve on the incoming water supply. This supply is mixed hot and cold from my combi boiler. Saves storing heated water. Just heat what you need when you need it.
Once the water is at the full level it raise's the float switch which will break the power to the relay and the sump pump will start running again.

Water change complete.

I may use a 3rd set of contacts to stop the water supply via a solenoid valve rather than a float valve in the main tank as this only wants to work when I am doing a water change.

I want my water top up due to evaporation ect to happen in the sump tank . This will take place using a float valve.

Anyway these were my first thoughts on automating the water change. Its done from items I understand the workings off.
I could be done with electronics but thatâ€™s past me.
The reason for the 12v side is so all the control side is 12v . This means its only 12v at the float switches.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (13 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Thinking about the scape I bought a large piece of wood from Ebay
Had to start somewhere. Thinking of cutting the trunk off flat and turning it up side down to the way it is now and placing it on the right hand side of the tank so that I can have the branches overhanging .

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370345935101&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:GB:1123

We will see what we can do with it. Just need to arrange a courier or similar to collect it for me.
The wife liked the shape of it.

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (13 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Now that's a piece of wood! It's a great starting place for any scape


----------



## FishBeast (14 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Can't see the wood as the listing has ended


----------



## Always Broke (14 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				FishBeast said:
			
		

> Can't see the wood as the listing has ended



Look further down the page . Its still there. I tried to copy the picture but could not do it to post here.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (14 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*





Got it. Its about 85cm long  and 52cm tall.

Simon


----------



## FishBeast (15 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

That is the best peice of wood I have ever seen...  OMG love it.


----------



## Always Broke (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Got a Phone call today to say my new Tank is in the shop along with the Sump.
Picking it up at 10Am on Sunday. Just need to find lots of Bods that are out of bed on Sunday morning to unload it at this end.
Can't wait.
Also been washing the Akadama . 3 bags done 6 to go. Looking at it I am not sure if that will be enough. Will wait and see.
My wood that I bought on Ebay should arrive tomorrow if Parcel Force deliver. 

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

me and my mate lifted my tank not as heavy as i thought but still not light


----------



## Always Broke (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				danmil3s said:
			
		

> me and my mate lifted my tank not as heavy as i thought but still not light



Thinking it will take more than two on a 7x2x2 .


----------



## danmil3s (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

maybe don't know what you do for a living im a builder and my mates in engineering we cared it from my garage 20m or so.


----------



## jonnyjr (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I can safely say that a 7x2x2 is more than a handful for two average people   , I nearly broke my back when there was 6 of us on a 8x3x2, you should aim for at least 4+ people.


----------



## danmil3s (18 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

i think the glass is thicker on 8x3.   the guy i got my 7x2 from had replace it with an 8x3 and he said he need 3 people and those things you use to fit windows. but had no problem with the 7x2 but it wouldn't hurt to have some help i guess.


----------



## Always Broke (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Have arranged three other people just in case .

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

let us know how you get on but 4 guys should have no problems


----------



## Always Broke (19 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Will post some pictures of the event .

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Got the sump tank today. 
Spent all day cutting and fitting the baffels.
The main tank is also in the back of the van. The lads will be round at 10 in the morning.






This tank is 5ft x15inches square 

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Sump is now fitted in the cabinet. Cover glasses to make yet 





Co2 system is nearly done . Got both my new needle valves.





Also made the bubble counter. This one is just so I can see all is working as and when it should be 





These are going to be my Co2 Reactors once I have moded them a bit. They were fluid bed filters in there past life.


----------



## Always Broke (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Really pissed at this bit. I specificity asked for the holes to be drilled in far enough so it would clear the structure on my stand. Went to the shop especially to sort that 
Did they do that, did they hell as like.
Looks like I will have to alter the stand. I shall be venting my frustration in the shop tomorrow.
You can see how much they are out   






Simon


----------



## jonnyjr (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

You might be able to play on the fact they have not made it to the dimensions they agreed to and get a small discount as had the stand been made out of metal, you would hove no option but refuse the tank.


----------



## JamesM (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I am so jealous right now..  That's gonna be one hell of a setup


----------



## Always Broke (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I hope it will turn out ok. I have spent a lot of time thinking about what I want to achieve at the end.
A long way to go yet.
I need to make a plumbing shopping list next. Once the tanks in place I will have a measure up.
Also washed another bag of Akadama . Getting there slowly. 

I need to get on with it as the weather is improving and my other hobby will be taking up a lot of my time.





Simon


----------



## hazeljane (20 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

This is gunna be  another good one     .



Stu


----------



## BAE (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

that pond was amazing i love the idea with the hole and inside bit but that tank is also stunning 

i bet that was a tough desision


----------



## andyh (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

cool plane! how big is that?


----------



## Colinlp (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Is it the perspective or is it about 7 - 8 ft wingspan? Huge tank, huge plane..... There's a pattern here I can't quite put my finger on   

Seriously, looking first class all round!


----------



## paul.in.kendal (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Is it the perspective or is it about 7 - 8 ft wingspan? Huge tank, huge plane..... There's a pattern here I can't quite put my finger on
> 
> Seriously, looking first class all round!



I've ALWAYS fancied a WW1 era RC plane like that - no wonder you're Always Broke!


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

The plane is a 1/3rd scale Sopwith pup. Its just over 108" wingspan. All up flying weight is 34lbs .Turns a 32" diameter propeller using a Petrol engine with a reduction drive system on it.  There is a lot of hours and money tied up in that .
Yes I like big things. Much more interesting and Fun. 
That is where the Name comes from. I use it on the RC aircraft Forums as well. My interests always keep me broke.

Tank is in place Pictures to follow. Looks big now its there. Its  going to take a lot of plants. Just trying to sort out in my head the pipework now. 

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

108"!! Where do you keep that? Does it have a hanger or something or does it come apart for transportation?


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> 108"!! Where do you keep that? Does it have a hanger or something or does it come apart for transportation?



The wings come off and it gets stored along with about 20 other aircraft in my garage. The garage is converted into aircraft storage only. all dry lined ,heated and dehumidified.They have more comfort than I do. 

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I take it the others aren't quite that big? Do you have a photo of that lot? It all sounds pretty awesome. What kind of engine does a thing like that use?


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Todays goings on


















It was heavy enough.

Got to go. Going out for tea 

Simon


----------



## Steve Smith (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Nicely done Simon!  Looks good in it's new home   I bet you can't wait now!


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Just ordered all the pipe work and valves . Not cheap at Â£300. Still do it once and do it right.
Also ordered a Diamond tipped hole saw for a bit of tank drilling.  
Lots of ideas . Spent most of the day just thinking the best way of doing things.
Part of the pipe work is a nice 40mm PvcU clear pipe for the full length 2mtr long spay bar. Had to buy 5 meters of it.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> I take it the others aren't quite that big? Do you have a photo of that lot? It all sounds pretty awesome. What kind of engine does a thing like that use?



I have a few other 1/3rd scale models along with a lot of smaller stuff.
At the moment the pup uses a 38cc petrol engine with a reduction drive. Its about to have an 80cc twin fitted as the other set up is giving me some grief, and I need it to be reliable as I have it booked in to fly at a few shows 










Simon


----------



## Always Broke (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				BAE said:
			
		

> that pond was amazing i love the idea with the hole and inside bit but that tank is also stunning
> 
> i bet that was a tough desision



Was not that hard a decision . I still have the outside part which is 3300 gallons and some 6 ft deep. The maintenance on the conservatory inside with 700 gallons of open top water is never ending.In the winter it made the room unusable with a massive fridge in the room. It looked stunning when it was at its best. Altering the house around needed doing and by getting rid of it I got everything I wanted and saved a lot of work. 
Also last year we had a water born bug problem that drove me up the wall. Just could not get on top of it. Now we have a nice warm room to watch the tank and the pond. Trying to get the Koi to feed out of my hand from one of the windows at the moment. 
I need to do a fair bit of work on the garden and all the decking round the pond needs replacing. Not looking forward to that.

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (21 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Thanks Simon, that's pretty amazing, I never realised such things existed. I'm gobsmacked by your plane, I live next to an airbase in Anglesey and see people fly their models at the weekend but you can hardly call that a model lol Do you have any youtube footage of it flying?

Watching the progress with your tank closely too, my 750l should be here in a couple of weeks with luck, interesting to see what I have in prospect


----------



## Always Broke (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Thanks Simon, that's pretty amazing, I never realised such things existed. I'm gobsmacked by your plane, I live next to an airbase in Anglesey and see people fly their models at the weekend but you can hardly call that a model lol Do you have any youtube footage of it flying?
> 
> Watching the progress with your tank closely too, my 750l should be here in a couple of weeks with luck, interesting to see what I have in prospect



First Flight with it 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_7z-5qE2YE


----------



## Colinlp (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Simply brilliant!!!!!! I bet that was a clencher!
Sorry for the thread hijack, back on track then  Cheers


----------



## Always Broke (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Watching the progress with your tank closely too, my 750l should be here in a couple of weeks with luck, interesting to see what I have in prospect



How are you setting yours up. What size of tank is it. Sounds like we will both have the same bridges to cross

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Mine is 68" x 30" x 24" with a 48" sump. I'm going down the very low tech route for now with no CO2 hopefully with just sword type plants, tall along the back and short at the front. Fingers crossed this will be as low maintenance as it can be as I don't fancy dipping my head in the tank to reach the bottom on a regular basis. Lighting at the moment is a mixture of 2 x 58W T8 and 2 x 80W T5 nothing overly bright as it's a Discus tank.  Out of all of it the sump is what's worrying me, it's my first, getting the balance of water flow is stressing me. Again fingers crossed once it all arrives it will be a case of what was I worrying about. 

With luck the tank will work as is with just a lowish twice weekly dose of ferts and occasional root feeding without algae attack. I will plumb in my existing CO2 if it's absolutely necessary but hopefully not, between the sump and 25% daily water changes I doubt I could afford the gas. Talking of water changes, that will be done over night via a plumbed in HMA filter trickling into the bottom of an 85L heated (at night) holding tank which overflows into the sump, the excess in the system then overflows from the sump into an outside drain. I'm doing that at night as we're on economy 7 electricity and it'll save a small fortune heating up about 40 gallons of water every night.

Well that's the plan so far anyway, just watch it change


----------



## CeeJay (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Always Broke

Great journal so far. Keep it up.
I'll be keeping a close eye on this one  
A massive undertaking indeed


----------



## Always Broke (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Well that's the plan so far anyway, just watch it change



Mine changes on a daily basis at the moment. Sounds really great. I wanted a 30" deep tank but having had one before I decided it was to deep for me to do a planted one.
Hope your are doing some Pics of it all  for us to see.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (22 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				CeeJay said:
			
		

> Hi Always Broke
> 
> Great journal so far. Keep it up.
> I'll be keeping a close eye on this one
> A massive undertaking indeed



Hi Chris.
Really strange that we should meet on here as well.
Your tank was looking great. Have you any recent pictures of it.
It is a big undertaking but as you know I like a challenge. 
See you at one of the shows. Blackberry wine is nearly finished and ready to bottle.

Simon


----------



## CeeJay (24 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Always Broke


			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Your tank was looking great. Have you any recent pictures of it.


I finally got round to updating last Monday   
Link is in my signature


----------



## FishBeast (25 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Do you have kids come over to watch you fly your planes and drool? 

I am so excited about your tank. Love watching it progress.


----------



## Always Broke (25 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Thanks. I am excited about it also.
More progress

Got a box of pipe fittings.





Made the Tank connectors myself so I could use the 38mm ID ABS pipe work for better flow. It helps if you have a lathe at hand   





These are the pipes from the weirs on the display tank. I valved them for any maintenance or whatever might crop up in the future 




This is the pipes going to the weirs . All 38mm Id. You can just see where I had to remove some of the wood for the connectors as they did not place them where I wanted 





One of the two home made Co2 reactors. These are fed with a Eheim 1260 . There are flow valves fitted to the inlet of each one. All piped up with 3/4 PVCu .






This is the overflow from the sump. Also "T" into it is the 3/4 pipe from the water change pump fitted in the main tank. Again valved for maintenance etc. Also in the Plastic enclosure on the right hand side is the water change feed water. In the box is a duel outlet washing m/c solenoid valve. The output of this will go to the main tank. Its operation will be controlled via a float switch in the Sump tank. I used a duel outlet one just to help the flow.





I have the return pipe work to do next. This involves making the spray bar from the clear 40mm tube. A job for the weekend.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Plumbing finished 

I will get the tank filled over the weekend then I can start checking things out. Need to sort out the sump levels for the float switches and such like.

Simon


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

great stuff. I wish i had the time and enthusiasm like you to do this to my tank. fancy doing mine?


----------



## Steve Smith (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

That's an emmense setup Simon!  Intriguing stuff   Keep up the photos mate!


----------



## Aeropars (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I really hate some people on here 

I could only dream of having a tank like that, let alone the house to put it in!


----------



## Always Broke (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Well its full of water. I have had the main system pump running. Its turning over about 7000 to 7500 ltrs an hour . The Sump has no problem with that sort of flow rate . The spay bar seems to be ok. Just ripples the surface without breaking it.The Stand pipes are having no problems either apart from they are noisy at the moment. A bit if fine tuning will sort that. I also ran up the water discharge pump. That again runs fine . 
I have been playing with the auto water change system this afternoon. It now works perfectly and you just adjust the time on the timer for the amount of water you wish to change. Just need to sort out how many ltrs are pumped out per minute.
The Relays and wiring is just "jury rigged on the floor at the moment. 
Next will be to get the Co2 system working.
So far no silly leaks to sort.
I need to make my new weir comb's next but I need to get the material for that.
Pictures to come. 

Simon


----------



## LondonDragon (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Impressive plumbing  this is truly a great project, looking forward to seeing this all up and running 
Automatic water changes is a dream


----------



## Always Broke (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Water going in this morning.
its only cold at the moment. No point in heating water I am going to dispose of 






Water return into the Clear spray bar. Cut the slot with a router. Anti syphon fitted on it as well. 
I have the new weir covers to make yet.





Plenty of water going down there.I have the noise issue to sort but that can wait.





Also bought a sheet of 3mm Upvc to paint blue for the background to go behind the tank. Just need to think of a way of keeping it there .

Simon


----------



## Garuf (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

The more I watch this the more fascinating I'm becoming. A really really great build. More photos and more tech specs please! Are you meeting the 10x rough rule? I can imagine it being hard in such a large tank?


----------



## Always Broke (27 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I would think that my system will hold around 750 lts of water. I reckon I am turning over 7000 to 7500 ltrs of water an hour so I would say yes to the 10x. It will be very close anyway.
My main problem I think will be keeping the Co2 up. I need to work on not introducing to much air in the filter system. By the nature of the stand pipes there will be air added to the system. In some ways this is good as its in the correct place for the filter media.The Co2 is introduced in the pump chamber of the sump so its at the correct end. The water coming from the media will be low in O2 I would have thought.
Shall have to wait and see in that one Anything can happen yet.
Going to order my light tomorrow. Going to go for one of the 6ft unites with 4x80w T5 tubes. If this proves not to be enough then I have the tank width to fit a second one. From what I have read so far I am sure one is going to do it.
I need to get an enclosure to fit my 3 relays into that control the water top up and water change.
Also my water change pump that is fitted in the main tank needs a box building to keep the substrate away from it and also a pre filter on it. The pump stands about 5" high and I hope the substrate will be a touch higher than that at the back of the tank so it will not be seen but will be able to maintain it if necessary. I have used a 3500ltr per hour mag drive pond pump for this purpose.
Will have pictures of all these bits tomorrow..

Simon.


----------



## Garuf (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I'd recommend emailing Tom Barr and asking what he'd prescribe for such a big tank, i'd think you'd be looking at 2 reactors or something like a high pressure mazi (spell check) diffuser or needlewheel diffuser. A sump is perfect for such a big tank but I don't know how you'll do. 
If you run into issues you can always throw more pumps in there, my perogative would be to go for higher turnover, closer to 20x but that's personal preference. I'll admit I don't know much about sumps so I don't know how high turnover would affect them. You could have a look at Amanos big tanks, I seem to think they're just diffusers in the sump though.


----------



## Mr T (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

This sounds a fantastic venture! Just wish I could see the pics, the firewall on board the ship (currently on a job in the North Sea) won't download the pictures!  

Still, It'll give me something to read (again!) when I get home!  

Thanks for keeping us all so well informed on how its all going. I bet there's a lot of readers who are thinking, Hmmm..... Darling.......come and look at this. How would you feel about.....  

Tesco


----------



## Always Broke (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I'd recommend emailing Tom Barr and asking what he'd prescribe for such a big tank, i'd think you'd be looking at 2 reactors or something like a high pressure mazi (spell check) diffuser or needlewheel diffuser. A sump is perfect for such a big tank but I don't know how you'll do.
> If you run into issues you can always throw more pumps in there, my perogative would be to go for higher turnover, closer to 20x but that's personal preference. I'll admit I don't know much about sumps so I don't know how high turnover would affect them. You could have a look at Amanos big tanks, I seem to think they're just diffusers in the sump though.



I have two reactors fitted. They both run from the same 1260 pump. This pump only circulates water through the reactors.
I can run more water through the sump but it gets a bit wild then. If I need more flow/ circulation in the tank I will fit a couple of pumps of some sort in there.
Thinking about it I could run the output of the reactors into the main return pipe. The main return pipe work is 40mm so its capable of a lot more flow. 
Just don't no that the sump and weirs  will like another 2000 ltrs an hour going through it. 
Can always try it.





			
				Mr T said:
			
		

> This sounds a fantastic venture! Just wish I could see the pics, the firewall on board the ship (currently on a job in the North Sea) won't download the pictures!
> 
> Still, It'll give me something to read (again!) when I get home!
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind comments. Its a shame you can't see the pictures. It means nothing with out them.

Simon


----------



## Tony Swinney (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Simon

I've just read through the journal from the start - fantastic stuff     As someone who appreciates thought and planning in a project, along with tidiness in execution this is right up my street and will certainly make me rethink the upcoming rebuild of my discus tank   

Where did you get the camazzi needle valves - I found their own website , but no apparent online stockists.

Cheers and good luck with it - I look forward to the updates.

Tony


----------



## Always Broke (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Hi Simon
> 
> I've just read through the journal from the start - fantastic stuff     As someone who appreciates thought and planning in a project, along with tidiness in execution this is right up my street and will certainly make me rethink the upcoming rebuild of my discus tank
> 
> ...



Email these people . If you get the part number from the Camazzi site that helps.
They were about Â£7 each. You can get bulkhead mounted ones like I got. Just pay attention to the part numbers   

sales@citybearings.co.uk

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (28 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Come then chaps.
How many plants am I going to need when I first plant this up.
Now remember I have no plant keeping knowledge at all so I will be relying on a lot of help from you.
What do you think I should start with. I appreciate I need to get the quantity of plant in the tank to start with and perhaps will need to get rid of some of them at a later date.
So how about a few suggestions of where to start.

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Come then chaps.
> How many plants am I going to need when I first plant this up.
> Now remember I have no plant keeping knowledge at all so I will be relying on a lot of help from you.
> What do you think I should start with. I appreciate I need to get the quantity of plant in the tank to start with and perhaps will need to get rid of some of them at a later date.
> ...


Hi,
    The focus in this tank should be to build bacterial colonies in the sediment as quickly as possible. There is a symbiotic relationship between sediment bacteria and plants, the interface of which is the roots. With this premise in mind one should worry much less about aquascape, but instead concentrate on having a good quantity of plants with roots. Since it's a big tank anyway and since large Echinodorus, Aponogeton and Cryptocoryne typically are a nice fit for large tanks then these are perfect choices as they tend to develop massive root structures. The Tropica catalogue is replete with popular Echinodorous, however you might find a couple of unusual ones such as E. kleiner bar, E. red special, E. horemanii and even E. grisebachii at Aquarium Gardening 20 or so specimens of these would do well in the middle to background along the aft section.

There are also some crypts not generally seen such as C. Green Gecko, C. cordata Rosanervis, C. lucens, C. blassii and C. aponogetifolia, however, any of the standard crypts such as C. wendetii (brown or green) or C. balansae will do. Aponogeton madagascarensis is a lovely plant as are cousins A. crispus and A. ulvaceus. 

Having tended to the strong rooted plants, the next, (or perhaps an equal) priority is to add many fast growing stem plants. Any plant named Hygrophila will do the trick nicely, especially the oft pink tinged H. polysperma "Rosanervis" is an extremely hardy and fast growing plant. These can all fill the middle. 100 or so stems (they are usually sold in bunches of 5 stems). Heteranthera zosterifolia aka "star grass" is so hardy it quickly becomes a nuisance. There are also some fast growing easy care Ludwigias such as L repens or L.mullertii. 50 stems of any of these would look nice. Any of the Bacopas would do as well B. coroliana is a popular favourite. Rotala indica is also an excellent choice.

I hesitate to suggest foreground plants since these are always problematic for beginners, primarily due to CO2 issues, so it's often a waste of money until CO2/flow/distribution are excellent. You might try a combination of Hydrocotyle, Cyperus helferi, Echinodorus latifolius  Echinodorus quadricostatus, and Lilaeopsis nova-zelandae, say, 20 pots apiece.

Now this tank could easily swallow twice the number I've given, so it's a matter of cost that I haven't suggest over the top numbers. Planting won't be a breeze either unless you've plenty of helpers on hand.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Many many thanks for the detailed reply. 
I will start looking up the plants you have suggested.
Perhaps I can then draw a plan of where they would be placed to ensure I am heading down the correct road.
I looks like I am going to need to save up a few pounds for this lot.

Thanks Simon


----------



## FishBeast (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I would love to see more pictures, especially full tank shots if possible


----------



## chilled84 (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Come then chaps.
> How many plants am I going to need when I first plant this up.
> Now remember I have no plant keeping knowledge at all so I will be relying on a lot of help from you.
> What do you think I should start with. I appreciate I need to get the quantity of plant in the tank to start with and perhaps will need to get rid of some of them at a later date.
> ...



I would suggest getting some real fast growing stems, cheap ones and cram here full of them while planting the plants you wish to keep. Then after a few weeks start takeing out the cheap stems and replace with the one you want long term, Should help keep the algaue at bay dueing its first few months. I say months because a tank of such size is going to take a while to mature. Please correct me ukaps if incorect.
This is an amazing journal and thanks for shareing your adventure with us all.


----------



## Always Broke (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

So what would be really cheap fast growing stems.

Simon


----------



## Garuf (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hygropholia polysperma.


----------



## Always Broke (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

After watching the circulation in the tank ( The wife thinks I have lost the plot) I have decided the slot in the tube is to big for the amount of flow.
I will make some temporary clip on covers that I can play with to get it correct.

Looking up lots of plants. Just as lost as I was before I started.

simon


----------



## samc (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

looking good   

if this was mine i would have the foreground and midground mainly consisting of crypts. check plantedbox or TGM for the names. on planted box it tells you what kind of size they grow too. 

it also depends on how much maintanance you want to do. with a tank this size i wouldnt want to be trimming stems that often as it will soon be hard to keep on top of.

there is also the option of an all moss tank with lots of wood. like in the amano gallery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs6X26ho9VA at 14 seconds  

there is lots more videos with it on also.


----------



## ghostsword (29 Mar 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> So what would be really cheap fast growing stems.
> 
> Simon



I would look at Hygrophila Corymbosa, or C. Demersum, both grow on anything.


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Been finishing off the mechanics of it all.
All the sump is finished

This is my home-brew water change and top up system The relay on the right is the Circ pump control .It stops the pump when the sump level drops and the restarts it when it has risen again.
The one on the left is the water top up. It is operated by the top float in the sump. 
the one in the centre is there to stop the auto top up working when the water change pump is running.
All simple stuff really but super reliable 






These are the 3 float switches that control it all. Top one is water level control
Bottom two are circulation pump control. When the timer sets off the water change pump , the main circ pump still pumps water from the sump to the tank thus lowering the level in the sump.
First the auto top up float drops but the solenoid dose not open as the water change pump relay has disconnected it. Then the middle float drops, the pump still runs until the bottom float drops. The pump then stops . All the time the water change pump is still emptying the main tank.
When the bottom float drops the circ pump stops. The water in the return pipe drops back to the sump ,raising the level a bit. As it is not enough for the middle float to raise the pump dose not start.That is the reason for this float to take into account the water level going up after stopping the pump. When the timer stops on the water change pump the solenoid  valve is reconnected and starts filling the main tank. This fills and overflows down the weirs into the sump where it the raises the circ pump top float and starts it going again. The level continues to rise until the top float lifts and cuts off the water feed. Water change complete. Simple   





Re did the Co2. Spent ages playing with it. In the end it work just as good by injecting it into the input of the return pump.
This pump is 10,000 ltrs per hour at 110 watts.





Also made a new bubble counter. I will machine up a nice stainless cap for it when I have time 





The timers are fitted. Just awaiting the lighting unite to plug into the two on the left.
the first one on the right is Co2 . The second is water change. By adjusting how long this is on for I can alter how much water gets changed. Set to change 50% once a week at the moment. Need some tidying of the wires yet. 





This is the water feed from the solenoid valve for auto top up and water change. Heated to around 26* by the combi boiler 





These are the Syphon breaks . the closest one is the pump out from the tank to waste for water changes The other is the main pump return .





I have just got the new weir covers to make when the black acrylic turns up , box in the water change pump and make the new spray bar. Light unite is on order.
Should all be good to go by next weekend . 
I bought some 3mm PVC sheet and cut it to size for coloured backgrounds The wife wanted blue and I wanted black At the moment they are blue but I can turn them around and they will be black   . They just sit behind the tank with some foam pads keeping them pushed against the glass.
Oh and still waiting for Parcel force to pick up my wood I bought   

Simon


----------



## Steve Smith (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Wow... Just... Wow!

I'm finding it difficult to comprehend all the different pipes and junctions!   Excellent stuff Simon!


----------



## LondonDragon (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Some people are just in a totally different league!! Amazing stuff, would love to see some detailed diagrams on how all this is put together and how it all works. Keep it up and I will just sit back try and take it all in and drool!


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Some people are just in a totally different league!! Amazing stuff, would love to see some detailed diagrams on how all this is put together and how it all works. Keep it up and I will just sit back try and take it all in and drool!



Just added an explanation to the above post if it helps.
Perhaps you can then help me with my plants   

Simon


----------



## tel (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Unbeleivable  . 
Simon you are going to need a week off to give your brain a rest just from doing all the mechanics. 
I really hope this becomes a success for you, given the amount of effort you have put into your project, top stuff.  
cheers, tel


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Thanks for the kind comments.
That was the easy bit for me.
Now I am into unknown territory with the plants .
I am going to be asking a lot of questions soon and I am defiantly going to need all the help of the people on here to make it a success.
As I said from next weekend on the tank will be ready.
I will try and put some sort of plant list together from the information so far ,but at the moment I am strugling with that.
I also need to order the Ferts etc. 
I am going to use the EI method.This seams the best way forward for me I think from what I have read and doing 50% water changes is no problem. Now where is the best place to get what I need. Could someone give me a list in plane English that I can understand. I still am unsure of what quantity's to mix and also feed. 
I have read James article but it is still not sinking in. I struggle to understand this sort of thing.
Hope you can help with this.

Simon


----------



## gzylo (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Always Broke

How do you intend to add ferts - dry or mixed with water?

Thats from ceg 4048 estimated index write-up - hope you do not mind ceg 

consider this

NPK (Nitrogen + Phosphorus + Potassium) Mixture for 20 Gallon Tank
1 month = 4 Weeks
3 doses of NPK per week
Therefore there are 12 doses of NPK per month
Multiply a single dose teaspoon value by 12 => [3/16 tsp KNO3]*12 = 2 Â¼ tsp KNO3
[1/16 tsp KH2PO4]*12 = Â¾ tsp KH2PO4
[1/2 tsp MgSO4]*12 = 6 tsp MgSO4
Add these to 600ml of tap or distilled water

Now this mixture must serve 12 doses so each dose is 600ml/12 = 50ml
This makes life easier because you need only dose 50ml of this NPK solution 3 times per week.

Always separate the CSM+B from the NPK because it has a tendency to react with the phosphate. You can dose the CSM+B as a powder or if it more convenient add 8 * 1/16 tsp => Â½ teaspoon to 200 ml of water and dose 25 ml two times per week.

Naturally, the mixture scales in the same way. If the tank is twice as large than you would add twice as much powder to you 600ml of water and so on. I have also been asked â€œWhat is a teaspoon?â€ â€œDo I use a heaping teaspoon or a level teaspoon?â€ The answer: It just doesnâ€™t matter. Just be consistent so that if you need to make adjustments to the dosing (either up or down) you will be able to do it logically.

and conclude this

So simply if your tank is 160 uk gallons you should mix 8times more ferts to 600ml water if you wish to add 50ml to the tank. Be careful as there is some % that can soluble in water same as with sugar and water. You can obviously fiddle with amount of water and accordingly add desired amount of ferts to suit your dosing pump. 

Hope that helps. No much of match and I think it cannot be simpler.


----------



## Spanerman (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Bloody impressive setup there! 

I cant realy help much with plants/ferts but i wish you the best of luck getting this planted up and il be following keenly


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				gzylo said:
			
		

> Hi Always Broke
> 
> How do you intend to add ferts - dry or mixed with water?



I thought it would be best mixed with water. I could then set up a couple of dosing pumps on timers. 
I go away a lot in the summer so I would not then have to rely on anyone else doing it for me.

Dose that seem sensible .

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

So am I on the correct track taking my set up is 160g 

I mix 8tsp of MgS04  with 6tsp of KH2P04 with 18 tsp of KN03 in 600 ml of water. 

On Monday I would add 50ml of it again on Wednesday and Friday.

I Mix 2 tsp of CSM+B to 200ml of water and feed 25 ml on Tuesday and Thursday.

Saturday I do nothing.

Sunday I do a 50% water change.
Monday start again 

Where do you get measuring spoons from or is there a conversion to grams. I have gram scales 

Have I got this correct.

Thanks Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> ...I am going to use the EI method.This seams the best way forward for me I think from what I have read and doing 50% water changes is no problem. Now where is the best place to get what I need. Could someone give me a list in plane English that I can understand. I still am unsure of what quantity's to mix and also feed.


Well, this is child's play compared to what you have already done. Just pretend this is a 200 USG tank. If that's the case, then the dosing scheme is just 10X the dosing for the reference 20G tank.

Sunday â€“ 50% or more Water Change then dose [2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoon MgSO4]
Monday â€“ 1 teaspoon Chelated trace mix
Tuesday - [2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 1 teaspoon Chelated trace mix
Thursday - [2 teaspoon KNO3] + [1 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday â€“ Rest
Saturday - Rest

Now this assumes a sump volume of zero. To make the adjustment for the sump simply determine what percentage the sump is of the tank and add that percentage to the dosages above. So lets say you have a 50G sump. If so then that means you need to add 25% more of everything - instead of 2 teaspoons KNO3, you'll need 2.5 teaspoons.

These are just your baseline numbers. You would adjust up if you note deficiencies or you could adjust down to save money if the baseline numbers work right off the bat. I'd buy the 2Kg bags first.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

It might be childs play to you.

Thanks again for a detailed reply that I can understand.

I have got the idea of that . So a teaspoon size is just what you stir your tea with. Silly question I know.
What sort of water. Is tap water ok to mix it or do I need something better.
Also should I run my water change water through pre filter treatment cartridges or just straight from the tap.

so many questions. 

Thanks Again Simon


----------



## gzylo (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

di or ro is best


----------



## gzylo (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

ro is fine 


yea if you are going to get fishes you should add some kind of filter to get the chlorine out or if you have 350l barrel you could let the water sit for 24h before adding it to the tank. Im not sure whether chlorine is bad for plants but i suppose it will kill all your beneficial bacteria in filter so please do use some kind of filter or barrel.


----------



## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Simon,
         There is no need to mix anything. Go to the kitchen, grab a teaspoon that you stir your tea with (third drawer on the left - make sure the wife is not looking), dig into the bag and toss it into the tank. These are just salts. In fact, MgSO4 is called Epsom Salts. Make you life simple. You don't even have to wipe the teaspoon in between...  

Cheers,


----------



## Spanerman (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Would he not be better off dosing into the sump? as it would get mixed better running into the tank?

Or doesn't it really matter if you have good water flow in the main tank?


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Simon,
> There is no need to mix anything. Go to the kitchen, grab a teaspoon that you stir your tea with (third drawer on the left - make sure the wife is not looking), dig into the bag and toss it into the tank. These are just salts. In fact, MgSO4 is called Epsom Salts. Make you life simple. You don't even have to wipe the teaspoon in between...
> 
> Cheers,



 I like that. Strait to the point.
That's what I will do to start with. Thanks again. Will go shopping .



			
				gzylo said:
			
		

> ro is fine
> 
> 
> yea if you are going to get fishes you should add some kind of filter to get the chlorine out or if you have 350l barrel you could let the water sit for 24h before adding it to the tank. I am not sure whether chlorine is bad for plants but I suppose it will kill all your beneficial bacteria in filter so please do use some kind of filter or barrel.



So some sort of carbon filter with pre filters before hand ??. I have an empty 4 pod unite at the moment . What sort of filters are best to fit in them. 
I am not going to fit a RO unite.


Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hi Spanerman,
                     It just doesn't matter. 
What does matter is that we do the easiest thing possible. The reason is this; The easier something is, the more likely you will continue to do it and therefore the more effective it will be. Do people really go through the trouble of trudging to the supermarket just to get RO/DI water so they can mix their powders? Why is that best? Doesn't that get old? The plants don't care. I don't even want to bend over to dump powder into the sump. I think bending is too much trouble...

Cheers,


----------



## Spanerman (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Good thinking, thats why i have my premixed ferts on a shelf directly over my tank 

Sam.


----------



## gzylo (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

What I meant is that Simon wish to use pump to dose the ferts


----------



## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Oh, OK. Well if you'll pre-mix the powders you still don't need RO water. Tap water is fine. The amount of liquid added to a 760 tank + sump volume will not appreciably affect the chlorine content of the tank.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				gzylo said:
			
		

> What I meant is that Simon wish to use pump to dose the ferts



That is what I will do eventually . I will need to.  
To start with though I think I will go for the spooning it in method and I can then adjust the amounts individually.

Getting really excited now.

Just got to get a plant list together. I will spend some time over the long weekend on that. Would be good to get the plant order sorted. I am away on the weekend the 17th and 18th so I could try to get it planted on the following weekend.

Off to find out about  10" water filter cartridges for these massive water changes. Storing the water before hand is not an option. Nowhere to do it and I would need to preheat it. I need to make use of the combi boiler. After all is was bought just for the Koi originally 

Simon


----------



## gzylo (2 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I think there are some carbon cartridges used to connect to hose when you wish to add some water to pond straight from tap. Seen them somewhere on the net few month back

If I were you I would use carbon filter to remove chlorine whatever the amount is if you wish to have any kind of livestock. Especially when water in uk has a lot of it.


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I think these will do the job. Need to find the flow rates for them 

10 Inch KDF/GAC Cartridge For Heavy Metal and Chloramine Removal.
Â£14.99
This Filter Contains 8 oz of KDF With The Remaining Filtration Media Being Granular Activated Carbon.
High - Performance Granular Activated Carbon Removes Free Chlorine, Odour, Organic Contaminants, Pesticides and Chemicals
The Filter Supplied Will be in a White Housing And Not Clear as in The Picture.
This cartridge fits inside a standard 10 Inch  Filter Housing.
This filter is ideal where the removal of contaminants is required without removing beneficial minerals.

And This

10 INCH CARBON BLOCK FILTER
Â£6.99

10 Inch 5 Micron Carbon Block Filter
This Filter is Effective in Removing
Chlorine,
Pesticides,
Volatile Organic Chemicals
99.95% of Giardia and Cryptosporidium Cysts.

And this. 

10 Inch Sediment Filter
Â£4.99

10 inch 1 micron or 5 micron high capacity polypropylene sedimentary filter for the removal of sediments, dirt, sand and rust. This is normally used in the first stage of a multi stage water filter system.
Please specify either 1 micron or 5 micron at the time of ordering.

Perhaps the 5 micron first then the 1 micron as I have 4 pods .

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> ...Off to find out about  10" water filter cartridges for these massive water changes...


Well, again, why not make life easy? You could do the carbon cartridge thing or you could just squirt a few drops of Typical Dechlorinator while the water is being added to the tank. It works instantly.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Always Broke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would be good if I was there when the water change is happening. As it is automated and most Sundays I am not at home that will not work.
Also that involves picking up the bottle and squirting it in the tank. Far to much work for a Sunday    

much easier to change a set of cartridges a couple of times a year.  

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

just like to say simon this tread has been real interesting reading.. inspired me to start again. im going to start looking for another second hand tank to fit the space i have. maybe if im lucky ill find a 7' 3' 2' would be a bit bigger. then i can drill and do it right (no over flow boxes). ill do a new sump that does what i want it to do. wish id known then what i know now. didn't even want a planted tank when i started.. so ive learnt and changed so much thanks to ukaps(all you guys). thanks guys.


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Always Broke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So for my liquid mix I can do the following for a 4 week batch

24tsp KNO3
12tsp KH2PO4
24tsp MGSO4
added to 1200ml water and dose 100ml per time

And 8tsp  of trace added to 400ml water and dose 50ml per time.

Its all becoming clearer . So I then adjust the quantity's until the plants are happy .

Simon


----------



## chilled84 (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Been finishing off the mechanics of it all.
> All the sump is finished
> 
> This is my home-brew water change and top up system The relay on the right is the Circ pump control .It stops the pump when the sump level drops and the restarts it when it has risen again.
> ...



THIS IS JUST SHEAR CRAZZZZY! NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE! YOUR MENTAL. I HAVE A DOCTORS NUMBER IF YOU NEED ONE THAT COULD HELP. LOL. JOKE. BUT THIS IS MENTAL,   BEST OF LUCK. ILL BE WATCHING THIS JOURNAL.


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Funny the wife said a similar thing when I parted with the money for the light this morning.
If you want to see a proper set up  (marine) then look at this guy and read his blog

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/show ... p?t=355647



Simon


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Just bought this lot.
Thanks for the Help
Qty.  	Item Name  	Total
1 x 	Magnesium Sulphate
* Pack Size: 2 Kg
Â£16.52

1 x 	Potassium Phosphate
 * Pack Size: 2 Kg
Â£13.25

1 x 	Chelated Trace Element Mix
 * Pack Size: 2 Kg
Â£34.94

1 x 	Potassium Nitrate
 * Pack Size: 2 Kg
Â£19.95 

Also bought a pair of PERISTALTIC Dosing Pumps with a 4 roller heads

And my water pre filter Cartridge's
They recommend a 1gal per minute  flow rate so I will run 2 sets in parallel so I can refill my water change in 30 mins instead of an hour


Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> So for my liquid mix I can do the following for a 4 week batch
> 
> 24tsp KNO3
> 12tsp KH2PO4
> ...


Exactly. How easy was that? It is child's play after all!  

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Always Broke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Would not have got there without your help.
Just got to adjust the amount of water to suit the pumps now and I have a starting point.
Next up is the Co2 levels to sort.
So I am off to read your article 
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467

Thanks again Simon


----------



## ghostsword (3 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Just bought this lot.
> Thanks for the Help
> Qty.  	Item Name  	Total
> 1 x 	Magnesium Sulphate
> ...



Hi Simon,

If you want more Magnesium Sulphate pm me and I will send you 2 or 3 kg, just pay the postage.. 

I bought 25kg of ebay and got lots..


----------



## Always Broke (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Hi Simon,
> 
> If you want more Magnesium Sulphate pm me and I will send you 2 or 3 kg, just pay the postage..
> 
> I bought 25kg of ebay and got lots..



Thanks very much for the offer. I will take you up on that soon



Just finished off a few odd jobs

Plumbed in to 10" triple pods for the cartridges. One on the hot supply and one on the cold . I will set the flow rate to 1 gal per minute each as best I can





Fitted a few more sockets. You never seam to have enough.
One for each of the dosing pumps with timers and one for a small air pump that will agitate the mixes up a couple of times a week so they do not settle out as I will mix 4 weeks supply at a time. Need to get a timer for that and the air pump.





Bought a couple of containers to put the mixed liquids in from Asda 





Got the heating going. Used a remote Stat to control the two 300W heaters . Much more accurate at 0.1*





Overall of the sump area






Off to do some gardening as its a lovely day but to windy for flying.

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

i found one 150w heater will heat my whole tank if placed in middle of sump but i guess having more would not matter as there only on when needed


----------



## jonnyjr (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Be interesting to know a bit more on the remote temperature controller and where to get it from as im looking for a similar thing atm and so far only came up with the TC-10 with 0.1 'c accuracy.


----------



## Always Broke (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				jonnyjr said:
			
		

> Be interesting to know a bit more on the remote temperature controller and where to get it from as im looking for a similar thing atm and so far only came up with the TC-10 with 0.1 'c accuracy.



Look on ebay. Loads of temp stats 
This is an older one from my Koi quarantine pond I used. 
I bought one for the heated cupboard that the wife uses for her wine making a couple of months ago .
Different type of case but just as good. I think her's has duel 8A switched outlets.

Simon


----------



## Dave Spencer (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Is that a Bucker Bu 131 "Jungman" in your avatar?

Dave.


----------



## Always Broke (4 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Is that a Bucker Bu 131 "Jungman" in your avatar?
> 
> Dave.



Its a jungmiester . 1/3rd scale 










Simon


----------



## Always Broke (5 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Been looking at plants
How about this as a place to start.  Do I need more or less or different. They all seamed fairly easy to grow.
Echinodorus cordifolius  x20
Echinodorus grisebachii  x4
Echinodorus major x20
Cryptocoryne balansae  10 bunches of 5
Cryptocoryne pontederiifolia x20
Cryptocoryne lucens 20 bunches
Hygrophila polysperma  100 stems
Hygrophila stricta  50 stems
Hygrophila difformis 100 stems
Ludwigia repens  100 stems
Bacopa caroliana  100 stems
Hydrocotyle leucocephala  1 bunch 25 ( just to see how it goes)
Echinodorus latifolius  2 bunches 25
Lilaeopsis nova-zelandae 2 bunches of 25
Vesicularia dubyana 2 bunches ( see what happens)
Lobelia cardinalis  100 stems
Limnophila sessiflora  100 stems
Rotala wallichii  50 stems

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (5 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Looks good to me. Go for it!  

Cheers,


----------



## Colinlp (5 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Good Lord! My tank is a similar size and I was hoping to get away with a shed load less than that, OK I am planning a sparse planting to maximise space for the Discus. I am really looking forward to seeing this planted up now, it should look brilliant!


----------



## Always Broke (5 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Good Lord! My tank is a similar size and I was hoping to get away with a shed load less than that, OK I am planning a sparse planting to maximise space for the Discus. I am really looking forward to seeing this planted up now, it should look brilliant!



I really want to have a fairly full planted tank. I have got some sort of idea in my mind on what I want it to look like but now idea how to change that to reality ,but it will be interesting getting there.
Fish, have not really thought about them. One thing for sure is I want a few very special fish   

Simon


----------



## Ajm200 (5 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Seems like a lot but I'm only just starting out so listen to the experts.  I've used about 250 plants my 5x2 and that is a mix of stems, ferns and anubias.  It isn't crammed but I wanted good flow around the stems in the early days while I'm getting to grips with ferts, light levels and co2.  Probably could have gone for 50% more but this is a long term project for me so I'm happy to increase planting levels from cuttings.  There is an empty space at the front to fill with a fg plant when I'm happy with the CO2 and have found one I like that doesn't require much trimming so probably add anothe 10-15 pots there.  

Don't forget bunched stems are fairly tall to start and grow like weeds so you'll have plenty of cuttings to propagate even at the start. I suspect you'll have a fair bit left over to offer on the forum.   Also,  this took quite awhile to plant so personally I'd start with 50-75% and add to it after seeing the initial results.  Otherwise you've got a mammoth planting session with lots of plants sitting about in bags.


----------



## Celestial (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Wow! Thats a lot of plants! It'll take ages to plant but I bet it'll be worth it   It also looks quite a bit of money aswell, may I ask where you're getting the plants from? And are you planning to do jungle style or are you going to 'scape it?

Thanks, Celestial.


----------



## Always Broke (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Celestial said:
			
		

> Wow! Thats a lot of plants! It'll take ages to plant but I bet it'll be worth it   It also looks quite a bit of money aswell, may I ask where you're getting the plants from? And are you planning to do jungle style or are you going to 'scape it?
> 
> Thanks, Celestial.



Working on where to get them from at the moment and also the quantity with some help.
I will update with a new list once I have it sorted

Simon


----------



## chilled84 (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Celestial said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Get a move on! Im dieing to see this planted lol


----------



## Always Broke (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

It will be planted on the 24 and 25 of this month, the only free weekend I have.
Working on getting the plants here on the 23rd.
Finishing off the odd tank jobs at the moment. New spray bar , the weir covers and such like .

Simon


----------



## chilled84 (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> It will be planted on the 24 and 25 of this month, the only free weekend I have.
> Working on getting the plants here on the 23rd.
> Finishing off the odd tank jobs at the moment. New spray bar , the weir covers and such like .
> 
> Simon



If i was closer i would have helped, Im down in plymouth. Your tanks so exciteing due to its size!


----------



## Celestial (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

http://www.java-plants.com/ is really cheap with a relatively wide range of plants, it also has pretty good reviews aswell.

Thanks, Celestial.


----------



## Always Broke (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> Always Broke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That would have been helpful, someone who knows what they are doing.  

Simon


----------



## chilled84 (7 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> chilled84 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ha Ha I wouldnt go that far! lol, I know a little now thou.


----------



## Always Broke (9 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

I have been talking to Mark and James from the Plantedbox.com and they have agreed to help me with the plant choice and plant location of my tank. I hope they realise what they have let themselves in for   
We are hopefully going to finalise the list tomorrow and then they will be ordered so I can plant on the 23/24th.
They have been a great help with advice from a total novice like myself.   
My saga with Parcel force picking up the wood I bought has ended after two weeks with 2 refunds. I got a different carrier to collect it which they did with no problems. Just need it delivered now .
The new 40mm Acrylic spray bar is fitted along with the new weir covers in black acrylic .
Its all coming together nicely

Simon.


----------



## danmil3s (9 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

cant wait to see this put together so i can copy it ha ha ha <- evil laugh


----------



## Always Broke (9 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				danmil3s said:
			
		

> cant wait to see this put together so i can copy it ha ha ha <- evil laugh


I am really looking forward to it as well. There are going to be a lot of plants. All easy ones to start with As we move on some of these will be replaced for much more interesting plants. 
There will be a lot of stems to start with, but my main aim is to get the tank mature and past the new tank syndrome.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (10 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Had a bit of time to finalise the water change system
When the timer activates the pump that is in the tank it runs it for 10 minutes.
This pumps out approximately 90 gallons of water which is 50 % of my system.
It then takes 108 minutes for the auto top up to refill it running through my water pre filters.

Thats that all sorted , I can do these changes as often as needed just by setting the programs on the timer. If necessary initially I can do them every day if that's what's required.

Next to sort out is how long to run the dosing pumps. I can measure how much they dose in 10 minutes and work it back from there. A job for tomorrow 
Its all getting closer by the day now.


----------



## Always Broke (10 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Depending on what is in stock then this is the direction we will be heading.


crypts various  (in pots)                                      54
echinodorus sp.                                                  54
Anubias                                                              26

1 x ANUBIAS HETEROPHYLLA (mother plant)                         x 1

HYGROPHILA POLYSPERMA                           12
HYGROPHILA ROSAE AUSTRALIS                   12
CERATOPTERIS THALICTROIDES                   12
LUDWIGIA PALUSTRIS GREEN                         12
LUDWIGIA PALUSTRIS RED                              12
LUDWIGIA GLANDULOSA                                  12
CARDAmINE LYRATA                                         6
ROTALA ROTUNDIFOLIA                                  18

                                                        total pots
                                                                230

Mark and James should be ordering on Monday so we shall see how we get on.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (11 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

My last chance to do anything to the tank before planting with other commitments taking up the rest of my free time in the next two weeks

The Irish peat moss going down. I put some slow release plant food pellets on top of this




This is the water change pump and pre filter. The pump will be buried in the substrate 





The Akadama substrate. This is 8x14 ltr bags. I have one more bag to add. I also put some slow release with this.





The new spray bar. I made a centre support / joint bracket from some perspex and polished it up. The flow from this really ripples the surface but without breaking it 





Just need my wood to turn up and I can try to arrange them in the tank. Then ready for the plants .
This is not going to be a scape 
After looking at what some of you guys do I just have no idea .This is just a plant growing learning curve set up that at the end of the day I will be pleased to sit in my chair and enjoy.


Simon


----------



## JamesM (11 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

The dedication, planning and craftsmanship that's gone in to this is second to none


----------



## Celestial (13 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Looking good   The pictures are getting me excited   

Thanks, Celestial.


----------



## Garuf (13 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

So well planned, are you activating the akadama like in James' thread or are you putting it in "raw"? 
Also, what do you imagine the final scape to look like, do you have any photos that give us ideas? 

Also, are you keeping that blue background? It's not really my cup of tea. :/


Totally off topic, do you know anything about entry level midsize model planes or helicopters? I've worn my Picooz out and I'm looking for something a bit bigger and better.


----------



## Always Broke (13 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> So well planned, are you activating the akadama like in James' thread or are you putting it in "raw"?
> Also, what do you imagine the final scape to look like, do you have any photos that give us ideas?
> 
> Also, are you keeping that blue background? It's not really my cup of tea. :/
> ...



My wood has arrived for the scape, if you can call it that. In my view I have the wood to try and grow things on.
I do not like the blue,( the wife dose) but its removable and it will probably be black or silver  ,though with the amount of plants you wont see much of it. I will get some pictures tomorrow of the wood. Also got my dry salts.

PM me about the models and I will give you my email address. Sure I can help you out


----------



## Always Broke (13 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Terrible picture , but its all I can do at the moment.
Just pushed it in the substrate to see what it looks like. To many things on to do anything with this at the moment









Its a big bit of wood 

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Had an Email from Mark And James at Plantbox.com to say my plants have arrived. James is working out a a planting plan for me. Nice chap.  
I am away all weekend so I will have something to look forward to when I arrive home.

Simon


----------



## JamesM (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Safe journey bud


----------



## Mowze (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Is that a Hozelock pond pump? I hope nothing goes wrong and you have to dig it out of the substrate.


----------



## Always Broke (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Mowze said:
			
		

> Is that a Hozelock pond pump? I hope nothing goes wrong and you have to dig it out of the substrate.



It is a pond pump, can't remember the make. Don,t see a problem with it really. Its mag drive and has to run 8 mins a week to do my water change. Its got a good prefilter and the water in this tank will be sparkling clean compared to what its designed to pump. I have a similar one in the pond running one of my trickle filters that has been running non stop for 8 years. So I am happy to put some faith in it

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

My worry with that pump would be if some thing does go wrong. with it being right at the bottom it could empty the tank. not good for fish


----------



## Always Broke (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				danmil3s said:
			
		

> My worry with that pump would be if some thing does go wrong. with it being right at the bottom it could empty the tank. not good for fish



The only thing that can go wrong it that the timer sticks on. 
Having used electronic timers for many years I have never had that happen but I suppose it could. Would have to deal with that at the time . I could fail-safe it with a float switch and relay . Could be mounted in the weir cover at that end of the tank as the cover is bigger than the weir itself to hide the pipework and power cable from the pump.The weir cover water level is always the same as the tank unlike the weir which is always full. Perhaps will look into that when I have a bit of free time.
Could also fail-safe it with a in line timer that is fired from the start of the pump run , Just set this one to stop 30 seconds after the main one . I have a few of those somewhere amongst my junk collection .
Apart from that happening there is no way of it emptying the tank . The discharge has a Syphon break in it that is mounted in the top of a "T" that sees no water flow to prevent any dirt clogging it up so its not going to drain the tank of its own accord..
Can you foresee any other problems

Simon


----------



## Mark Webb (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Simon, this cant fail! Looking great


----------



## Always Broke (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Mark Webb said:
			
		

> Simon, this cant fail! Looking great



Thanks Mark.
I am looking forward to seeing yours. That is going to be a great set up.
Just got my second 6.25kg C02 bottle. Had a thought that if the one I have runs out I can't easily get a replacement there and then as the gas supplier is only open weekdays to 4.30 when I am normally at work.This was playing on my mind a bit. At least now I have time to get the empty one changed with out panicking 
I am also waiting to see how long one lasts, although at Â£10 a time to get it filled up its not that costly ,more inconvenient getting it.

Thats it , off till Monday now.

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

i would put some sort of fail safe on the change pump just in case. my 10kg co2 lasts about 6-8 weeks.


----------



## Always Broke (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Plants , more plants and even more plants and even more plants . Now in possession of some 230 pots of plants.
This is going to take a bit of planting I think.





Had a bit of a lighting disaster. Got told on Tuesday that there were no lighting unites in the UK like the one I ordered . Made a quick decision and a few phone calls and I now have two 40" Arcadia units coming for Friday. Thanks to my LFS for sorting it out.It will be better in some ways as it is now the full length of the tank ,but smaller units to remove for tank maintenance . Just cost another Â£150 than I was expecting 

Roll on Saturday

Simon


----------



## Pixels (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

er, that is a lot plants! Looking forward to seeing this one! 

Cheers
Paul


----------



## LondonDragon (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

You should have made an event of planting the tank, and get all the visitors to sort out the plants and 2-3 guys planting it up! lol looking forward to seeing this planted


----------



## Always Broke (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hope James and Mark have got there sums correct. It dose seam a lot .
As you Know I Know nothing about plants but they do look good.
Will be kept Damp and in the Dark until Saturday morning .
James sent me a planting plan to follow  so thats a good start.

Simon


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Hope James and Mark have got there sums correct. It dose seam a lot .



you'll be surprised mate. my guess is, there will still be space, going from experience here.


----------



## Always Broke (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> You should have made an event of planting the tank, and get all the visitors to sort out the plants and 2-3 guys planting it up! lol looking forward to seeing this planted



I would have if there was anyone else I know around here who is into plants. All my mates are into aircraft.
The wife will be helping as usual. 

Simon


----------



## George Farmer (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Wow!  I don't think I've ever seen that many pots go into one tank before.

All the best with the planting.  I'm looking forward to seeing this one progress!


----------



## Colinlp (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

It looks like a delivery at a garden centre! Along with everyone else I'm looking forward to seeing this. Just watch your back, that lot is going to be a killer to plant


----------



## alzak (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

WOW it looks like You want to set a plant shop LOL

It will take You a few hours to plant all this with mine I spend 5 hours with this amount of plants it takes a all day 

Look forward to see this good luck


----------



## russchilds (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Wow!! That's a lot of plants!! 

Great journal!!


----------



## chilled84 (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> Plants , more plants and even more plants and even more plants . Now in possession of some 230 pots of plants.
> This is going to take a bit of planting I think.
> 
> 
> ...



Such a lovely sight, But i would rather you than me haveing to tackle that lot! lol. Good luck mate, Ill be watching.


----------



## Tony Swinney (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Thats some planting youve got to do !

It'd be great to do a timelapse video of the planting process   

Tony


----------



## FishBeast (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

That is a ship load of plants. You must be very excited! Make sure you have enough beer to last you the day it will take to plant it   Now I really do see why you are always broke. You must have a very understanding missus.


----------



## hazeljane (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Looks like a bad back is brewing   

Great journal watching all the time   

Cheers

Stu.


----------



## amy4342 (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Awesome journal! Can't wait to see the planting pics!!!


----------



## Always Broke (22 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

The wife bought some more Buckets today. We can then start sorting the stems which we will plant first. I have 8 buckets full of them that's some 96 pots .
Garage is full of plants .
All my hobbies keep me always broke.

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Been sorting and planting for 3 1/2 hours so far. Lots and lots to do yet.
Time for tea and a back rest.


----------



## sanj (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



> All my hobbies keep me always broke.



I know what that feels like, but then you could be dead tomorrow ...whats money going to do for you then. Lol

Well thats one of my justifications. 

Ive got all this coming in the next month, looking forward to it and not at the same time.


----------



## Colinlp (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Hows the planting going? It's all getting very exciting now the anticipation is killing me, we need some intermediate pics to keep us going   
I'm quite jealous Simon, yet another week has gone by with no tank or communication from Aquariums Ltd, next week is week 16 since my order, sigh


----------



## Always Broke (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*



			
				Colinlp said:
			
		

> Hows the planting going? It's all getting very exciting now the anticipation is killing me, we need some intermediate pics to keep us going
> I'm quite jealous Simon, yet another week has gone by with no tank or communication from Aquariums Ltd, next week is week 16 since my order, sigh



You will have to wait a bit longer yet.    Lots of plants ,in fact lots and lots and lots of plants.
Some are going to have to come out later ,but that's a later on thing once I get sorted. At the moment I am not sure whether I an coming or going. Its all good fun. I also have to sort out the mounting of the lighting .That needs a bit of thinking about as I want to mount both units on the tank so they will hinge back for easy access.
That seams a long wait for a tank. I waited 3 weeks and that was long enough.

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Surprise surprise, Aquariums Ltd have just been in touch to ask me to change the above as it is actually week 14 next week not 16, that windows calendar I ask you! My apologies. Anyway they tell me they will be in my area on May 8th and I have confirmed that is OK, so ash clouds aside it may actually arrive.

Where did you get yours from Simon, 3 weeks is fast! A friend of mine waited 7 for a tank similar in size to ours from another manufacturer very recently. Anyway, back on track and back to work


----------



## Always Broke (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Not good pictures. So much reflection from the Conservatory. I will get better ones later when I cover the windows.
Anyway here is what i have at the moment. Looks a mess just after planting. this is about an hour after filling with water . Turned on the lights , fed the plants and turned on the Co2 as well.

















Water surface movement from the 2.1mt long 40mm dia spray bar.





Water change set to do once a day at the moment between 12 and 1. Feed and trace everyday at 1.30. Co2 on at 12 and off at 8 pm . Lots of it at the moment. Lights on at 3.30 till 9 pm. Only half the tubes at present.
Good circulation ,slight movement in most of the plants.
Will get a couple of drop checkers and move around the tank .

So that,s 230 pots of plants in a 7x2x2 tank .
Need to get on and finish the woodwork next. 

Simon


----------



## Celestial (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

WOW! Looks fantastic! It already looks nice and lush   You should be proud.   

Thanks, Celestial.


----------



## John Starkey (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: My venture into my new 760 ltr aquariam.*

Total respect for taking on such a huge planted tank,one thing i think you will be able to do when its been going for a few months is just do 2 water changes a month (thats as long as its all going well),i did this in my 98 g setup and it worked a treat,with a tank your size and the more stable water volumes every thing should be fine,great looking setup,
regards john.


----------



## Colinlp (24 Apr 2010)

That's incredible, 230 pots! It's going to fill out beautifully in a couple of months. I bet you're glad to get that over with it must have bee a back breaker to say the least but it was worth it, it's looking excellent


----------



## Always Broke (24 Apr 2010)

Really looking forward to seeing its development. I am not really shore which direction it will go in. There will be changes along the way. So looking forward too seeing it all growing though.
My next job is to get the woodwork finished , this also involves building a bookcase on the return wall the same hight as the cabinet with a nice wide top for the wife to keep he collection Bread Apart of frogs that seem to be appearing.

Simon


----------



## tel (24 Apr 2010)

Nice work Simon, it must be gratifying to finally see some plants in after so much work.
Hope it continues to go well for you   
cheers, tel


----------



## FishBeast (25 Apr 2010)

Looks great mate. Its great to see how well your journal has progressed. Best of luck.


----------



## Always Broke (25 Apr 2010)

Everything is looking good. Been cutting any poor leaves off. No big melt yet but sure its on the way.
Plants have straightened themselves up a bit now. Water change happened ok and feeding and trace went in. Everything seams to be working as expected. Nearly all the plants have some movement.
Finished the woodwork around the tank .
Got a little camcorder gizmo so will try some video. 
Taking pictures is going to be a nightmare with all the reflections in the conservetry. 
I presume some way of covering the windows will be the only way. 

Simon


----------



## Always Broke (25 Apr 2010)

Not sure if this will work.
You can see a leaf showing the flow. Also you can see the fine Co2 bubbles. 
Need to find out how to get better quality on it.

Simon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVvotYxveI0


----------



## Always Broke (25 Apr 2010)

A few pictures from this evening at day 2


----------



## Nelson (25 Apr 2010)

that must be just amazing to sit back and look at.who needs a tv   .


----------



## JamesM (25 Apr 2010)

Looks great with the added trim mate


----------



## Always Broke (25 Apr 2010)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Looks great with the added trim mate



The wife and I both like the built in look with things so that suited us perfectly.All our house is waxed pine so it matches all the other woodwork. Not a fan of the louvre doors but can sort that out later. 
Gets rid of all the unsightly bits as well as cutting the light out from where we sit which was rather annoying. Remember we can only get about 4 feet away from the front of the tank.
Over the moon with it so far 

Simon


----------



## Dolly Sprint 16v (25 Apr 2010)

Hi

There is only one word to sum this set up â€“ *spectacular*

Well done, its a credit to you - cannot wait to see this when its fully grown.

Regards
paul.


----------



## chilled84 (25 Apr 2010)

considering you said it wont be much of a scape, Its seems you have done a great job at SCAPEING it lol. Well done, Looks great, thats the easy part done, Just gota keep it great now. Should be a breeze!   Well done mate!


----------



## tudes (26 Apr 2010)

Fantastic tank Simon, Can't wait to see some fish swimming in that.

Stunning....


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## hazeljane (26 Apr 2010)

Looks great keep up the good work   


Stu.


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## Always Broke (26 Apr 2010)

Nearly at the end of day three and all is looking ok.
A couple of plants need replanting. Just not planted well enough in the first place. Plus its hard to do anything to one plant without affecting its neighbours until they get routed properly 
I spent about an hour and a quarter on the tank before going to work this morning. I think it will be the same each day for a week or two. If I do it before work it gets done. After work anything can happen.
I cut any decaying leaves off and a general clean around the plants. Also removed and cleaned the pre filters. Also cleaned out the bits of plant from the prefilter section.
I have set the water change to happen at 7am now when I am there. Also the dosing pumps dose at this time as well. They dose into the pump chamber of the sump so on start up it gets pumped straight in. Dosing at this time allows me to see its happening ok as well.
Everything seams to be going as planned. fingers crossed.
How long do you think I should continue the daily water changes. I have the flow rates of hot and cold sorted now and get a good 24 to 26* of replacement water. 
My lights are on for 6 hours. I am only running 4 of the 8 39w tubes. Should I have a bright spell for 1 hour with all 8 on or keep it as it is for the time
Also I am not getting any usable readings from the drop checker with these daily water changes. 
All I can do is guess there is enough Co2 ,and wait to see what the plants say. I feel I am putting lots in , You cant count the bubbles in the bubble counter as there are to many to fast.

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (27 Apr 2010)

Hi Simon,
            I reckon you can just do 3X per week changes. That's good enough. Why do you think you need a bright spell. Bright Spells typically spell disaster.  

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (27 Apr 2010)

Thanks, will keep away from the bright spell..
I will change the water changes to three times a week from Saturday. Would I then feed three times a week.

Simon


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## ceg4048 (28 Apr 2010)

In the EI scheme for world domination, each time you do a significant water change you must then immediately dose because you would have lowered the existing nutrient concentration by a percentage equal to the water change. So if you did a 50% water change, the nutrient levels will have dropped by 50%. If you were only doing a 10% water change then it's not that big of a deal.  You might also need to dose 2 days after the last water change of the week. Lets see an example:

Sunday water change - need to dose NPK
Monday - Dose trace
Tuesday water change - need to dose NPK
Wednesday - Dose trace
Thursday water change - need to dose NPK
Friday - Dose trace
Saturday - (perhaps) need to dose NPK

Can you see that if you do not dose on the Saturday you might go almost 3 days without dosing NPK at the Sunday water change? this may or may not be a problem but it's better to keep the discipline, especially for mondo tanks.

Beg pardon, I never promised you a rose garden...  

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (28 Apr 2010)

Thanks Clive that makes sense.
At the moment I am dosing every day straight after the water change.
I will adopt the new timetable from Saturday.
I am on day 5 now and things are looking ok . Got a fair amount of melt on the crypts.
Some of the stem plants are growing well.

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (28 Apr 2010)

Yes I think you're doing OK. Newly planted Crypts will melt when there is less than stellar CO2. They should regrow, but this is indication number one....

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (28 Apr 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Yes I think you're doing OK. Newly planted Crypts will melt when there is less than stellar CO2. They should regrow, but this is indication number one....
> 
> Cheers,



I have upped the co2 a bit and also turned the spraybars a touch to reduce a bit of the surface agitation and drive more of it towards the front and down.
I am sure I am getting more than enough O2 from the sump so that should not be an issue.
Spent an hour having a tidy up of the dead leaves Etc.


Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (29 Apr 2010)

Yep, that sounds like the thing to do. The transitional phase from emersed to submersed is traumatic so definitely remove all debris. Soon you'll start seeing the form and texture of the leaves changing and check for new growth at the nodes of stems or at the base of rosettes. To me this is the most exciting period where anticipation is at it's highest. I love the change in form.

Cheers,


----------



## mr. luke (29 Apr 2010)

WOW


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## Always Broke (29 Apr 2010)

Most of my stems are showing real signs of growth and looking good. Still having a crypt melt but I have pumped up the Co2 and increased the amount of feed after every water change. I am still changing 50% per day to keep on top of the ammonia that must be being produced in abundance at the moment . Its very hard to keep the base really clean at the moment with the plants not routed very well yet so I hope that the water changes will make up for it. I will have a good clean just before lights off and then a 50% water change tonight. I will still have the programmed water change in the morning. I hope this will just help to keep on top of any ammonia build up. 

Simon


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## Colinlp (29 Apr 2010)

Where's the ammonia coming from? Are there fish in there? I would have thought the plants would be soaking up any ammonia.


----------



## Always Broke (29 Apr 2010)

I am assuming that my crypt decay will be producing that . As the rest of the system is not matured yet I am taking no chances.
water changes and dosing is easy to do.

Simon


----------



## Colinlp (29 Apr 2010)

OK, that makes sense, I never really thought about it like that as I didn't get crypt melt they just grew from the outset


----------



## Always Broke (30 Apr 2010)

During the day I am pumping all this Co2 into the tank are there any benefits in adding more O2 during the darkness .
My sump adds some O2 which I can't prevent as it draws it down the sump feed pipes. This I suppose will be richer in O2 after the Co2 has gone off but how much I have no idea. 
Any thoughts on this.

Simon


----------



## Mark Webb (30 Apr 2010)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> Most of my stems are showing real signs of growth and looking good. Still having a crypt melt but I have pumped up the Co2 and increased the amount of feed after every water change. I am still changing 50% per day to keep on top of the ammonia that must be being produced in abundance at the moment . Its very hard to keep the base really clean at the moment with the plants not routed very well yet so I hope that the water changes will make up for it. I will have a good clean just before lights off and then a 50% water change tonight. I will still have the programmed water change in the morning. I hope this will just help to keep on top of any ammonia build up.
> 
> Simon



Simon, I think the Crypt melt could be because the Crypts dont like change. My Crypts were all looking great until I decided to change from RO water to HMA filtered water. Having done this adfter a few days I had extensive Crypt melt. I left well alone and they gradually accustomed to the change.


----------



## ceg4048 (30 Apr 2010)

Hi,
   I impose change on my crypts all the time and they never melt. I can dig them up, cut their roots and re-plant them elswhere, I can put new emmersed plants in the tank and I can change the water type and they never miss a beat. If you have crypt melt after changing water then this tells you that your CO2 is not at optimum levels. If you buy new crypts and they melt after planting then this tells you that your CO2 is not at optimum levels. If you pull up a crypt and re-plant it at another location and they melt then this also tells you that your CO2 is not at optimum levels. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean that your CO2 is poor - just that it's not optimized.

The concentration of CO2 does not affect the concentration of O2. In any liquid the concentration of a gas in that liquid will depend on the pressure and concentration of that gas which is in the atmosphere above. Adding CO2 under pressure within the liquid only affects the concentration of CO2 in that liquid and has no relation to any other gas dissolved in that liquid. In other words, the behaviours of these two gases are independent.

If the concentration of a gas dissolved in the liquid is higher than atmospheric then the gas will move from the liquid to atmosphere, and vice-versa. During the photoperiod you are adding CO2 under pressure to the liquid and the plants are doing the same with O2. When the lights and CO2 go off, this stops and both gases, being at higher partial pressure in the water will find their way out of solution towards atmosphere but they will do so at their own rates. 

Your sump is therefore out-gassing both of these gases until each reaches their independent equilibrium concentrations. Oxygen has a lower equilibrium concentration than CO2. So really, your sump, if exposed to atmosphere is acting as a vent. Ideally, you'd want the sump sealed against atmosphere until the concentration of O2 fell to at or below atmospheric equilibrium concentration level. Only then would it actually add O2. Since there is no inexpensive way to monitor and control this, I would seal the sump and leave well enough alone. You want to delay the out-gassing of CO2 because this makes it easier to get the CO2 levels up to optimum levels before lights on. The penalty is that O2 levels may fall below equilibrium levels - but higher CO2 levels will enable the plants to more easily replace the O2.

This is the same conundrum faced by those non-sumped tanks using an airstone at night. A bit of a Catch-22, really.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (30 Apr 2010)

So lets look at another option . What is the best way to dissolve the Co2 better in the water.
For instance. What if my return pipe from the sump pump to the tank was say 4" in diameter instead of 40mm.
The water would flow slower through this diameter of pipe and increasing the contact time with the Co2 . Same principle as an in line reactor I suppose.. Would this increase the amount of gas dissolved in the water.

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (30 Apr 2010)

Simon, 
          Weren't you using a diffuser mounted inside the sump? Or was that someone else? I didn't have the energy to review all 25 pages here so I apologize for my absentmindedness. Seal the sump and just inject the CO2 via standard disc (the largest available.) The return pump will also chop up whatever remaining bubbles there are. As long as your organ pipes or whatever you have is sealed then the sump is your reactor. I wouldn't bother to make things more complicated. Correct me if I've misinterpreted something mate.

Additionally, the issue may not be that you are not diffusing it in the sump properly. It may be the way in which you are distributing the flow in the tank. I thought I remembered you showing the outlet into the tank where it was a gang of outlet ports very close together? I tend to spread my outlet flow across as much length as possible via spraybars but your technique may tend to be "point source" where all the outflow is ejected from one corner, so the dissolved gas has to migrate to the far reaches of the tank. It's hard to remember everyone's configuration. i might be confusing your tank with tels. Distribution inefficiency can only be addressed by either increased pump flow or by injection rate increase.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (30 Apr 2010)

The water return is via a 2mtr long 40mm diameter spray bar the full length of the tank between the weirs.






At the moment the Co2 is injected straight into the input of the 10,000 ltr an hour return pump.





I will try injecting it into a defuser in the sump chamber which is easy enough to seal. The rest of the sump will need a bit of thought on how to seal it 

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (30 Apr 2010)

i sealed my sump with plastic and tape but im sure you will show me how its done


----------



## Always Broke (30 Apr 2010)

One big step I have done is I have stopped 95% of the atmospheric air entering my stand pipes in the weirs. This should help a lot as I was getting huge amounts before.
I will play with diffusing the Co2 better before it gets to the return pump and sealing the sump. 

Simon


----------



## danmil3s (30 Apr 2010)

how did you seal your stand pipe simon


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## Always Broke (30 Apr 2010)

It was not a case of sealing them  more a case of playing with the flow valves on the ends and the air valves on the Durso stand pipes. I have one set to full syphon controlled by the valve on the end and the air bleed shut.The second is set up as an overflow . This just has a trickle of water going down it. The full syphon one draws no air at all. The overflow one draws a very very small amount . Took a couple of hours of messing, but the whole system is silent now apart from you can here the bubbles in the bubble counter .
These are the flow valves in the sump.





Come up with a few good ideas to seal the sump but allow access for cleaning. Will work on that over the next few days if I get the chance 

Simon


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## danmil3s (30 Apr 2010)

i see how that works clever but im not sure how the other end works if you get a power cut does the syphon not brake


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## Always Broke (1 May 2010)

danmil3s said:
			
		

> i see how that works clever but im not sure how the other end works if you get a power cut does the syphon not brake



Will find out when my water change takes place.

Need so advice on my lighting
I have 8 39w T5 tubes. At the moment I am running 4 of them. Is it ok to run all 8. That gives just under 2wpg . 
Or am I better just running the 4 which I presume requires less Co2 .

Simon


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## mattyc (1 May 2010)

i am sure it has been said before, if you think of light as the driving force the more light you have the more co2 and ferts maintance are required. 

some plants dont like high light levels like all Anubias, i would use the amount of light that you can keep up with and is most sutable for your plants. both my tanks run about 1.4 w/g


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## Garuf (1 May 2010)

I've never had an issue with anubias in highlight, it's a matter of getting the ferts right, they're trace hungry.
I echo the advice though, lower your light for a while, run 4 get everything stable then up them if you want/need the extra light.


----------



## mattyc (1 May 2010)

i was just looking at the reccomended light levels in the tropica book and the anubias are the only plants that dont have a high light dot!!


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## Mark Evans (1 May 2010)

mattyc said:
			
		

> i was just looking at the reccomended light levels in the tropica book and the anubias are the only plants that dont have a high light dot!!



I personally think all plants would like high light, it's just that some do just as well without. tropica catalogues also state various 'heights' for plants, which are wrong.

There just guide lines.

I've grown anubias in high light, and it loved it!


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## Mark Evans (1 May 2010)

I thought i'd best elaborate.



			
				mattyc said:
			
		

> ooking at the reccomended light levels in the tropica book and the anubias are the only plants that dont have a high light dot



This is sensible from tropica. 

They don't want people/hobbiest going out buying plants such as anubias, banging them in high light spots and then them getting covered in algae. They presume, the hobbiest may not be up to scratch with dosing co2 etc etc, so to be safe they say low light plant. Aquafleur are the same.

it doesn't mean though, it's not a high light plant if dosing co2 are correct and vice versa


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## sanj (1 May 2010)

I would agree with Mark, people who specialise in growing plants are still a small proportion of the market, Tropica have to focus on average Joe and provide helpful generalisations.


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## Always Broke (1 May 2010)

I have re set all my auto timers for this weeks new water change and feeds.
Sunday water change 7.00 to 7.09 - need to dose NPK 7.05 to 7.13
Monday - Dose trace 7.05 to 7.10
Tuesday water change 7.00 to 7.09  - need to dose NPK 7.05 to 7.13
Wednesday - Dose trace 7.05 to 7.10
Thursday water change 7.00 to 7.09 - need to dose NPK 7.05 to 7.13
Friday - Dose trace 7.05 to 7.10
Saturday - (perhaps) need to dose NPK 7.05 to 7.13
The feeds and trace get injected into the pump chamber in the sump. 
9 mins on my pump empty s 50 to 60% of the tank water 
I had a rearrange of the LH end of the tank this morning. This still needs a bit of work and I need to let the plants do there thing now. The centre and RH end are looking much better..
I also increased the hole size in the spray bar in the last 600mm by 2mm . I think this has improved the flow and circulation at the LH end of the tank. We will just have to wait and see. I have also improved the CO2 injection as well so it mixes a little better. Thinking on this all day I am going to build a reverse flow reactor for this out of some 4"or 5" clear tube.

I will take some pictures tonight when it gets dark which will be one week on from planting day.
Very happy so far with the results 

Simon


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## Always Broke (1 May 2010)

So last Saturday I was planting my first ever tank.
This is where we are tonight. Pleased so far with the results.


























A bit of fine tuning with the mechanics but all the hardware seams to be working.
This week the tank will have no intervention from me hopefully and should run by its self and leave the plants to do there bit.
Remember its not a scape like most of you are into but a place for me to learn how to look after plants and the water they live in at the moment. 

Simon


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## mattyc (1 May 2010)

i quite like the look of it, but it will look loads better as the plants grow in


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## sanj (1 May 2010)

I still love the spray bar, i should  think you would get great flow.


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## ceg4048 (1 May 2010)

Hi Simon,
             I'm well pleased with that mate. I really wouldn't be thinking too much about scapes right now at all. At this time we're all about plant health. Nothing more and nothing less. Thinking about scapes diverts us from focusing on the prime directive. We may need to continue to tweak some things as you've been doing, but we'll let the tank tell us what to do next.

Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (1 May 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi Simon,
> I'm well pleased with that mate. I really wouldn't be thinking too much about scapes right now at all. At this time we're all about plant health. Nothing more and nothing less. Thinking about scapes diverts us from focusing on the prime directive. We may need to continue to tweak some things as you've been doing, but we'll let the tank tell us what to do next.
> 
> Cheers,



Thanks mate. Would not be here without your help.
That was the plan now,just let things happen and correct as we go.
I have no interest in scapes or fish at the moment . My only interest is learning how to keep the plants properly and take corrective actions when needed. (sure there will be plenty of that needed soon)

Simon


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## JamesM (2 May 2010)

You're getting some really great results so far mate, glad you're happy so far, I know I would be too


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## Always Broke (3 May 2010)

Seamed funny this morning. Got up to watch the water change but there is not one today. Had to think about that for a bit while still half asleep. Stil made sure the Trace dosing pump timer was set correct.
Improved the Co2 mixing a bit using a Ceramic airstone feeding the Pre mix pump. I am sure it works better now.
Just need to keep on top of the quantity as the plants grow.

Simon


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## ceg4048 (3 May 2010)

According to the schedule you showed on the previous page, water change is tomorrow. There are still some uncertainties though after you closed the standpipe valves. I recall this post from danmil3s.



			
				Always Broke said:
			
		

> danmil3s said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Go to bed early tonight mate, just in case valve closure was a bad idea...
Cheers,


----------



## Always Broke (3 May 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> According to the schedule you showed on the previous page, water change is tomorrow. There are still some uncertainties though after you closed the standpipe valves. I recall this post from danmil3s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tested that, Not that silly. Glad of the reminder though.

Simon


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## Always Broke (4 May 2010)

First bottle of Co2 empty today. As I am using 6.25kg bottles we have not had a lack of Co2 in the first week. 
No panic though as I had a second bottle ready to go.

Simon


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## Colinlp (4 May 2010)

Yikes! 6.25Kg in just over a week, blimey I'm glad I'm going low tech I couldn't afford that. Are you running very high levels at the moment? 
Hey hey, my tank is coming Saturday sometime, will get my own journal started then


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## Always Broke (4 May 2010)

Nice one. Bet you can't wait for that. I am looking forward to your journal.
First week just piled in loads of it. I also have a much better way of mixing it now and have turned it down a fair bit.Its not that dear at Â£10 a time ,not that I want to spend a tenner a week on gas though. If I do end up using a fair bit ,say more than one a month I will get the big 25kg bottles just to save on going and getting them.

Simon


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## Colinlp (4 May 2010)

Yes of course I forgot you made changes to the reactor in the sump. 25Kg bottles wont be that much more will they? Trouble is I live out in the sticks and the nearest BOC depot is miles away and are always shut when I leave work so getting refills would be just another pain. I will say though I will miss the growth CO2 gives, I have seen such a difference since I switched mine of a couple of months ago. Give yours another couple of weeks and it will suddenly take off and look fantastic, it's really exciting to see it happen after all your hard work; well that's how I saw it anyway!

Yeah I'm really looking forward to it if only to get all the crap I bought just in time for the promised delivery date out of the way. My missus is giving me a hard time over it now, bags of substrate and gravel/sand, hardscaping, filter media let alone the tap I've plumbed in in the middle of an empty wall looking like a demented plumber escaped from the asylum!


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## Ajm200 (4 May 2010)

That is a lot!!  My 560l used 500g in 4 days with the dc yellow.  Uses a bit less now as I've added fish and keep the dc pale green.


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## sanj (4 May 2010)

wow that is alot of co2 in a week. I run two 5kg and they last 6 months on an 860litre. Having said that i keep predominantly crypts and ferns. So are you thinking that your tank will be using that amount once a month? In my new set up i will not have a sump but leaving optons open for the future, but might think twice if they are that much more co2 hungry.

Hmm... i have one issue with algae and tht is GSA which could mean i need to inject more or improve circulation or both.


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## ceg4048 (5 May 2010)

Err..Simon I hate to rain on your parade mate but using a puny girly-man 6Kg cylinder on 800+ L is like eating soup with a chopstick. Call the BOC, they deliver. Remember that the amount of water you are saturating is tank + sump volume. You're also supporting a few kilos of plant mass as well - and you're only at half throttle with the light. The plants can adjust to a lower CO2 level once they transition but your margin for error then decreases exponentially.

Folks who complain bitterly about algae and various other plant problems are the same ones who complain about, or are shocked at the cost of CO2. Look out your window at that giant English Oak across the street. It weighs several tons, right. Well, most of those tons were made with CO2.

Of course, standard procedure when troubleshooting high consumption is the ensure that you have no leaks. Remember also that you really only need a few hours of solid CO2 injection. Turn the gas off a few hours earlier. That will help quite a bit.

Cheers,


----------



## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

Silly question really, but has to be made.

Will too much CO2 have an adverse effect on the plants? As I understand the concentration of CO2 on the tank has no effect on the concentration of O2 on the water. 

Could in theory we pump as much CO2 as we can on the tank, irrespective of light or nutrients?


----------



## Dan Crawford (5 May 2010)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Could in theory we pump as much CO2 as we can on the tank, irrespective of light or nutrients?


Yep, it's only the fish and inverts that would suffer, if you don't have any then happy days, crank it up!


----------



## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

Thanks,

I have a small nano that will only have plants, no animals, will see if adding as much CO2 as I can will affect the plants. Probably try with a 150W grow lamp on a 2 gallon tank, see if the water keeps clear and the plants without algae.


----------



## Colinlp (5 May 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Folks who complain bitterly about algae and various other plant problems are the same ones who complain about, or are shocked at the cost of CO2. Look out your window at that giant English Oak across the street. It weighs several tons, right. Well, most of those tons were made with CO2.


Just for the record in case that was aimed at me, the reason I switched my CO2 off was my discus were suffering with it despite reducing it. As my main tank is a discus tank that happens to have plants in it meant the priority is the fish and the plants a very distant second. My new tank will be low tech because of both that reason and the fact that it is 30" deep and at my age I don't want to be dressing up as Jacques Cousteau once a week to give the plants a trim. I'm hoping that a sump along with a trickle filter will help to keep constant but low levels of CO2 enough to allow slow but steady growth with low light. No doubt I'll be needing plenty of help


----------



## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

@ Colin, that is a big tank, over 70cm deep.. 

Why don't you just put Crypts, Java Fern and Anubias on it? It would not need lots of light and CO2, and Discus like subdued light anyway, so everyone wins..

Do you have pics of your tank?

Thanks.


----------



## Colinlp (5 May 2010)

No not yet, it's being delivered on Saturday, same volume as Simon's but slightly shorter. I'm using Echinodorus of various types to try and keep it biotypical but there will be a couple of crypts thrown is as we both like them


----------



## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

Amazon's need lots of food, and they are the most amazing plants, in my opinion. Are you going to provide ferts to your tank? Or CO2?

Open a journal, I would enjoy seing such a deep tank.


----------



## Colinlp (5 May 2010)

Yes I'll start a journal over the weekend, no worries. The planned substrate will be quite thick in the planted area, I plan on using root tabs as I do now with the swords, I think I'll need to dose the water a little too but I think this is best discussed away from Simon's thread. I hope the tank will be up and running quite quickly, most of the stuff I need is ready and waiting to be fitted. 

Sorry Simon, your thread


----------



## Always Broke (5 May 2010)

Colinlp said:
			
		

> Yes I'll start a journal over the weekend, no worries. The planned substrate will be quite thick in the planted area, I plan on using root tabs as I do now with the swords, I think I'll need to dose the water a little too but I think this is best discussed away from Simon's thread. I hope the tank will be up and running quite quickly, most of the stuff I need is ready and waiting to be fitted.
> 
> Sorry Simon, your thread



You carry on, I am interested in it all.

Simon


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## Always Broke (7 May 2010)

Going away for 4 days so the tank will have to look after its self for a while.
The Hygrophila Rosae Australis is already at the top of the tank and will need a trim on my return.
There is a bit of Diatoms  algae here and there but hopefully that will go when the tank matures.

Simon


----------



## ceg4048 (7 May 2010)

This mean you've still got too much light...

Cheers,


----------



## sanj (7 May 2010)

Colinlp said:
			
		

> No not yet, it's being delivered on Saturday, same volume as Simon's but slightly shorter. I'm using Echinodorus of various types to try and keep it biotypical but there will be a couple of crypts thrown is as we both like them



Ooh exciting! bet you arent going to sleep much tonight.


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## Always Broke (7 May 2010)

Free Internet access in the B&B   

So do I reduce the time the lights are on.
Its 6 hours at the moment  What do you recommend

Simon


----------



## LondonDragon (7 May 2010)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> So do I reduce the time the lights are on.
> Its 6 hours at the moment  What do you recommend


Not necessary reduce the time, but you can also reduce the quantity


----------



## ceg4048 (8 May 2010)

Yeah, exactly. Intensity kills. Disable more bulb(s) for the time being. High tech tanks never take care of themselves and they never get better without intervention, hence the allure of the non-CO2, low maintenance regime.

Cheers,


----------



## Colinlp (8 May 2010)

sanj said:
			
		

> Ooh exciting! bet you arent going to sleep much tonight.


Ha ha , no a few glasses of wine saw to that. Well fingers crossed it should be arriving in the next couple of hours, hopefully in one piece


----------



## sanj (9 May 2010)

Got it? All good?


----------



## Colinlp (9 May 2010)

Yes it came yesterday dinner time, we're very happy with it, the tank and cabinet are spot on to say the least. The lighting part of the order was wrong though so the delivery lads took those back with them, The Green Machine came to the rescue and they should be delivering towards the end of next week.  I'm on my hands and knees at the moment wiring and plumbing but will get a journal started early next week when hopefully most of the initial work should be done.


----------



## sanj (9 May 2010)

Looking forward to it.

Also would like to see how Simon's plants are coming on when he gets back.


----------



## Colinlp (11 May 2010)

Yes me too, there should be a significant difference in parts of it now and hopefully the crypts will be on the up


----------



## jcastell (15 May 2010)

Clive,



> Your sump is therefore out-gassing both of these gases until each reaches their independent equilibrium concentrations. Oxygen has a lower equilibrium concentration than CO2. So really, your sump, if exposed to atmosphere is acting as a vent. Ideally, you'd want the sump sealed against atmosphere until the concentration of O2 fell to at or below atmospheric equilibrium concentration level. Only then would it actually add O2. Since there is no inexpensive way to monitor and control this, I would seal the sump and leave well enough alone. You want to delay the out-gassing of CO2 because this makes it easier to get the CO2 levels up to optimum levels before lights on. The penalty is that O2 levels may fall below equilibrium levels - but higher CO2 levels will enable the plants to more easily replace the O2.



from what I've been told it's 8 mg/l is the equilibrium level for water (of course this depends on temperature and altitude etc), but let's take that as our figure to work with. So no matter how much splashing around one does, this level cannot be increased since it's the equilibrium level. Is it true that planted aquariums can shoot that level over 10 mg/l, plants would be a different matter since they are injecting the water with O2?

From Simon's setup all I see is a closed sump. To me, it's basically a canister filter with an easier cleaning arrangement, but you do have the water surface of it that is in constant motion that contributes to the gas exchange if a difference occurs. Most of the vigorous splashing around might come from the feed if there is gurgling there.

What I want to ask is if it's worth the while to get a trickle tower involved. It's a more potent form of biological filtration since the bacteria will take the oxygen from the air and not the water. BUT, if the water is already saturated to over 10 mg/l by the plants, oxygen will get degassed from the water in the process along with CO2 if we have to inject the tower with air (which we do to make the tower work effectively, if we seal it, it just acts like a submersed filter).


----------



## ceg4048 (15 May 2010)

Yes, there's a Catch-22 with trickle filtration or any system exposed to atmosphere. In a fish only tank it's a no-brainer. As the O2 levels drop due to fish respiration, the dry area, as you say, feeds the bacteria and aids in replenishing overall O2 levels. Such a tank would also use air bubbles or other form of surface agitation in the main area to speed up O2 equilibrium.

With healthy plants, an open dry area out-gases both O2 and CO2 so ideally you could have a powered valve that vents the tower to atmosphere only during late night/early morning and closes just before CO2 ON time. In this way you'd keep O2 levels up and minimize CO2 loss. This is a lot of added complication though, so really you'd only need to worry about this when you have high fish stocking levels. I try to keep things simple, so if you are not having issues with fish then it's better to seal the trickle's tower and accept that it will morph into a submersed filter. Whatever gasses (produced by injection and photosynthesis) that come out of solution in the tower are trapped and will diffuse right back in if the gas concentration levels in the water fall lower than what is trapped in the tower. I don't think it's necessarily worth going out of your way _getting_ a trickle filter because of this issue, but it's also not worth worrying about if you are already using one, because you can always choose to seal or vent the tower as necessary.

CO2 out-gassing and the other downstream effects of an exposed dry area/sump have different levels of severity depending the individual tank, and so venting/sealing has to be evaluated on the relative merits. In Simon's case he has an issue with excessive CO2 loss which may be attributable to sump size, agitation within the sump, inefficient diffusion technique or any combination thereof. This results in an unreasonable gas consumption as well as possible poor distribution in the tank proper. In his case, sealing the sump helps mitigate the loss and produces better saturation of both gases generally. He has no fish yet so that part of the equation is yet to be determined. In some other tank the combination of factors may not result in as severe a loss, and so a vented tower or sump may not cause as much trouble.

Open top tanks suffer the same problems, because the surface is exposed to atmosphere, but many of these tanks are smaller, so the magnitude of the problem is minor enough that these issues may go undetected. It's important to note that this is a serious Mandingo sized tank, so whatever issues there are tend to get magnified immediately. Issues with which nany and pinky tank owners routinely skate away with are unforgiven in monster tanks. 

Hope this helps...

Cheers,


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## Garuf (15 May 2010)

> that this is a serious Mandingo sized tank


That made me laugh. I'd never considered that open top tanks suffer the way that the sump does. I knew that had better gaseous exchange but I'd never considered what that really meant. Makes me really wonder what the ideal injection method is. Makes me wonder what would be better for flow too, I'd read about mazzi and eductors but don't know if they're a gimmick that wouldn't really do anything for injection levels in a tank. 

How's the tank coming along simon? is everything doing okay or is the co2 effecting things negatively?


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## sanj (15 May 2010)

Hmm mine is going to be open top, but no sump, just like the ones at TGM. Wonder how much co2 they get through...

Im waiting to see how Simon's plants are doing, prolly growing like mad with all the co2 injection.


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## jcastell (15 May 2010)

Clive,

It was a long time since I read Thiel, but he stated that biological filtration takes a lot of oxygen, it's just that I don't have the laboratory equipment to find out how much.

When you say the plants supporting the fish etc, it's not only the fish but also every other oxygen consumer in the tank, and I'm just wondering how much oxygen the biological colony takes in relation to fish mass. I can't see a linear relation since some fish are more energetic than others etc. .

My point is if the plants produce more than enough, and can saturate the tank to level not possible by exchange with the atmosphere, having a trickle tower would be pointless unless you are lacking O2 during the night time. But we also got to make the observation that there probably is less oxygen demand in the night time anyway, apart from the change of demand from the plants, since most of the fish slow down, and no feeding takes place to add to the load.

I don't like using large canisters for large tanks, opening and cleaning them would drive anyone crazy if they had to do it every fortnight.


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## Always Broke (15 May 2010)

Hi guys and Girls.
Sorry for no posts recently. Just so busy with other things.
Tank is coming along. Some is good and some is not.
I will post some pics of where I am. Lots of things need sorting. I am sure I need more/ better Co2 or better distribution.
I am trying the spray bar firing straight down at the moment. I am sure the position of this in my tank when I get it correct will improve things no end. I certainly have plenty of flow. I am thinking of increasing the hole size even more to reduce the pressure. I do not want to add more C02 just use it better. My weirs could do with improving more to reduce O2 being added. 
also sunlight is not helping. I have covered the front of the tank throughout the weekdays until I get home at 5pm. 
This helps I am sure. I get so much daylight where it is. 
Talk later, things to do
Simon


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2010)

Actually the O2 consumption is also a function of the amount of waste in the tank as well, and that happens 24/7. That's why reefers worry so much about measuring Redox potential. So the numbers can depend on how much you clean the tank. There are quite a few variables, really, too many to chase. If we do the things that we know have a strong impact on available O2 levels and on plant health then I don't think it's so important to get wrapped around the axle. Lots of large water changes, adequate CO2, good flow/distribution and so forth. This makes the choice of filter type less critical.

I use two 2080's on my 600L. What's the difference between cleaning a canister and cleaning a sump? I only clean one at a time, never both so this saves aggravation. This unit has wheels and handles on the trays I lift the trays out, hose them down and reassemble. A piece of cake really. By the way, for those technology anoraks, these are the more important design features of a filter, not whether it has silly microprocessors or programmable tsunami wave functions or whatever.

Cheers,


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## jcastell (15 May 2010)

funny, I was about to mention rotting waste as well. And having it trapped in our filters is not a good thing. With a sump arrangement like Simon's he just takes the sponges out, gives them a scrub and rinse and puts them back in again. With a canister filter I have to disconnect, open the sealed unit (quite heavy from being contained with water), take stuff out, put it back in etc . . a  lot of grief. My trickle arrangement for my fish only has a syphon box and it's the main mechanical filter part. I just turn off the return pumps, wait for water to stop overflowing and replace the filter floss and I'm done.

I don't agree with all this electronic silliness either, what a waste of space. And the new Fluval G3's are a total joke. Nice to look at though - they can probably do a 23 litre tank!!!

The idea of the sump setup was to separate the biological media and make it maintenance free. We do this by making the mechanical filtration openly accessible. With a canister it's unfortunately bound in with the biological media. I suppose that's the one thing about the G3 filters that I do like, it allows for rapid clean out/replacement of mechanical filter.

When you clean out your canister filter all you should be cleaning out is the mechanical filter to get the trapped detritus etc out, the biological media should never be touched. But from experience canister filter gets caked up with detritus if not properly maintained. The sump arrangement makes sure that it's easier to do and is a much better way of doing things if you've got the space and understand how to engineer it.


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## sanj (15 May 2010)

> Lots of things need sorting. I am sure I need more/ better Co2 or better distribution



im just thinking that my 860 litre used a fraction of the co2 you seem to be using i dont think it is all down to planting types because initially i had a lot more stems. I think it must be more down to distribution, but the spray bar design appears to be very good. Perhaps sump wise?


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## dw1305 (17 May 2010)

*Re: Trickle filters and oxygenation*

Hi all, 





> "But from experience canister filter gets caked up with detritus if not properly maintained. The sump arrangement makes sure that it's easier to do and is a much better way of doing things if you've got the space and understand how to engineer it......" & "...... It was a long time since I read Thiel, but he stated that biological filtration takes a lot of oxygen, it's just that I don't have the laboratory equipment to find out how much."


I used to spend a lot of time looking at factors like B.O.D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemical_oxygen_demand and Redox potential http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_potential (when we were working with the landfill leachate). One of the very obvious out-comes of this was that a trickle filter offers vastly more biological filtration potential than any other type of filter, primarily because of their large gas exchange potential (both O2 in and CO2 out). The combination of a an easily cleaned mechanical pre filter (either by sedimentation or a capture in  sponge) and a planted filter also helped.  Unsurprisingly the "gold standard" filter system is a mechanical pre-filter, a planted section (either part of the filter (the deBruyn filter http://www.aka.org/UserFiles/File/debruyn_filter.pdf or similar) or as hydroponics) and a trickle filter. Another out-come was that the different biological trickle media behaved in a similar manner, and something like "Alfagrog" or "Hydroleca" combined being cheap and effective, I think ceramic rings came out marginally best. (However in a system with lower BOD, sintered glass ("Siporax") may offer advantages .  

I wrote an article for about this (for a specialist L. No. keeping forum) a while ago. It has had a number of homes (which is why the HTML is a bit mangled), and at present it is at: http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829, (but I'm not sure what the access is like to this if you aren't a PP member). One of my aims in writing it was that a lot of plec. keepers realised that flow, biological filtration and oxygenation were really important, but  were  stressing (or even killing) their L. numbers by assuming that a bare tank bottom and ever larger canister filter would take care of cleanliness, biological filtration, gas exchange and flow. Another aim was to try and get people to use plants, as very few keepers had planted aquaria, and many didn't appreciate how important they are in the maintenance of water quality. 


> I don't agree with all this electronic silliness either, what a waste of space


Couldn't agree more, I still post occasionally on PP (usually on the filtration threads), explaining why an EHEIM classic is still the best canister filter. I now use Clive's immortal phrase "pump in a bucket" to explain why you all the electronic gizmo's are unnecessary.

cheers Darrel


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## jcastell (17 May 2010)

another thing that's just occurred to me is that trickles filter, especially those with rotating spray bars and DLS, get the media UNIFORMLY wetted due to the gravity forcing effect. Channeling is virtually non existent, this make for an extremely efficient use of the biological media.

With a submersed biological media, or if it's in a canister, there are possibilities that water, because it always seeks the path of least resistance, will channel through the media, especially when things get caked up with detritus.

Because of the way an canister filter is designed there is channeling to a certain degree. I know this because it's always the area of the filter floss near the inet at the bottom of my canister filter that will get caked up with detritus first.

This also explains why trickle towers are much more potent as biological filters.

I rather wish Fluval made a large version of their G6 where open access to clean out the mechanical stage is possible, so that we never have to touch the biological stage or worry about its integrity.


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## Always Broke (18 May 2010)

I use a trickle tower on my Koi pond . Its simply a 4 ft tall water butt filled with Boi Balls. Has worked a treat for years and I have never touched it. Its prefilter is a Vortex chamber off the skimmer filled with brushes. Once a month cleans that out.


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## Always Broke (23 May 2010)

Sorry for the delay. Had so much else on.










Generally I think its going ok. Its not all dead and I cut a bucket full of stem growth off this morning
I do now have a few problems.
From what I have read and observed I still have a problem of getting the Co2 to all the plants.
The ones at the front are the worst. I have no idea on how best to improve that. also I am not sure if I am feeding enough.









What do you think.

Simon


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## ceg4048 (23 May 2010)

Simon, are theses leaves with the blotches old leaves or new? If they are old then just cut them off. It's the new leaves we are concerned about. Old leaves are terrestrial leaves. They are not optimized for submerged gas exchange so they will tend to suffer more. If new leaves look like this then you have a serious problem. I can't see any nutrient related issues in those shots. Why do you think you need more nutrients, especially after cutting bucket loads of plant material?

Cheers,


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## Always Broke (24 May 2010)

I am sure that would be on old leaves.
So do you also think there is a Co2 problem at the front of the tank. The brown Algae I am putting down to new tank syndrome ,although the system should be starting to get some useful bacteria by now I would hope. I am still running 1/2 power on the light. 3 water changes a week still. 

I looked at day one pictures against week 4 .


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## paul.in.kendal (24 May 2010)

I can't help with the technical side, but this looks absolutely superb!  You must be well-chuffed.


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## ghostsword (24 May 2010)

It looks amazing, great solid growth. To keep a planted tank on that scale is no small feat.


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## ceg4048 (24 May 2010)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> I am sure that would be on old leaves.
> So do you also think there is a Co2 problem at the front of the tank. The brown Algae I am putting down to new tank syndrome ,although the system should be starting to get some useful bacteria by now I would hope. I am still running 1/2 power on the light. 3 water changes a week still.


Well, you know I wake up every morning and my very first thought is always; "I'm sure I have a CO2 problem somewhere in the tank". 

If your CO2 were absolutely perfect the terrestrial leaves wouldn't suffer so, but it's very difficult to get perfect so having CO2 be only "OK" will have to do. As I mentioned, if the new leaves aren't browning then I would leave it for now. Terrestrial leaves have a different physiology, including a thicker waxy cuticle and vascular tissues with plenty of air spaces optimized for atmospheric gas exchange. These don't do very well when flooded. CO2 has a difficult time traveling across this border. 

The new leaves that grow in a submerged environment typically have thinner cuticles, or sometimes no cuticle at all. The epidermal layers might be thinner or missing. These new leaves are more like a flexible soft contact lens, much better adapted to living in an aqueous solution than to living in air. If these leaves are not browning or deteriorating then it means that the CO2 concentration at that location has not fallen below critical levels. As I mentioned earlier, simply cut off all the terrestrial leaves and that will be the end of the worry.

The diatomic algae are transient. As long as you don't go bonkers with the light they should only last a few weeks then disappear. It'll take a few months for the tank to stabilize so I wouldn't really worry too much. If you're not getting Rhizo, or Clado or GSA or BGA then I very much doubt that you have nutrient deficiency - that's no guarantee that you won't have problems later, but for now it's OK. If you're not getting filamentous algae then your overall CO2 is OK.

Is it just me or does your light look pink?

Cheers,


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## Always Broke (24 May 2010)

Silly Camera is making the lights look like that.
I will work on getting a bit better flow to the front of the tank. I will also have a big leaf cutting session later in the week.

Thanks Simon


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## sanj (25 May 2010)

Simon, are the light tubes you are using the Arcadia Plant pros?


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## ceg4048 (25 May 2010)

Sorry, I couldn't stand looking at that goofy pink hue. Retouched it a little to get better detail. 
Dropchecker looks blue. Is that just an illusion or was that whet you were complaining about?
Also, what is that black box to the left of the dropchecker? Is it a Flight Data Recorder?







Cheers,


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## JamesM (25 May 2010)

Outstanding mate! Looking really good


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## Always Broke (25 May 2010)

The Tubes are Arcadia Plant pros.
The drop checker is lime green.

I have added some more flow. Pump wise I am running 15,000 ltrs an hour. What actual flow I have is unsure but I can say its a lot.
Every plant has movement in the tank . Hopefully I will see a Co2 improvement on the plants right at the front of the tank.
This is the area that is struggling. If you think about it from when the water leaves the spray bar it has to travel nearly 4 ft to get there. Had not thought about that before.

Simon


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## Mark Evans (25 May 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> what is that black box to the left of the dropchecker? Is it a Flight Data Recorder?



  picking myself up off the floor.


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## sanj (26 May 2010)

> If you think about it from when the water leaves the spray bar it has to travel nearly 4 ft to get there. Had not thought about that before.



Thing is I compare your tank with my old one which was one foot longer but otherwise the same dimensions. I used a few canister filters and no sump. the spray bars were on the back, but these were the canister filter spray bars, not excellent DIY you have. 

I never had BBA, i had hair algae on the moss for a while (the long silky stuff that can easily be pulled out), but after a while that went. Only issue I had with Algae was GSA. 

I know no two tanks are the same even if they had exactly the same equipment, but my feeling is that it is not your set up with in the tank, but somewhere sumpwise.


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## Always Broke (26 May 2010)

I am still looking at ways to seal the sump. Until I stop air entering the sump via the weirs then there is no point.
Anyway I have bitten the bullet and singed up for the rental on a 44kg Co2 bottle.Not that dear in reality . The main reason was the trips to get the 6,5kg ones filled is over a gallon of fuel in the van every time so it will be cheaper in the long run. Now just need to find somewhere to put the beast and get it to that spot.
Lots of fine tuning needed but I can see the actions of the things I do now.

Simon


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## sanj (26 May 2010)

Wow 44kg sounds huge! the height of my cabinet was determined by my 5kg canisters and then Clive was on about me getting a single 25kg   . now you have a big daddy, prolly the biggest on the forum.    

Can i ask, with the contract do they require a minimum volume or Â£ that you contract for? I will have to up the co2 in my new set up but in the last one only changed every few months. Dont mind if it goes down to 2 or 3, but dont fancy every other week.


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## danmil3s (26 May 2010)

simon have u just tried taping up your sump not pretty but fast and cheap youd be  surprised at the difference, i was and if it works you can diy a better method if not only lost a bit of tape and 20 minutes time


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## Always Broke (26 May 2010)

sanj said:
			
		

> Wow 44kg sounds huge! the height of my cabinet was determined by my 5kg canisters and then Clive was on about me getting a single 25kg   . now you have a big daddy, prolly the biggest on the forum.
> 
> Can i ask, with the contract do they require a minimum volume or Â£ that you contract for? I will have to up the co2 in my new set up but in the last one only changed every few months. Don't mind if it goes down to 2 or 3, but don't fancy every other week.



Rental was Â£38 per year, and refill Â£35 I think. There were no terms at all, as much or as little as you like.   
Just had to buy a trolley to move it round though.  

Pictured next to a 6.25kg bottle.


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## LondonDragon (26 May 2010)

Damn that 44kg would last just over 7 years in my tank! haha

Tank is coming along great, a great achievement  congrats


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## danmil3s (26 May 2010)

Where did you get a deal like that for gas think i need to drop the fes


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## Always Broke (26 May 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Damn that 44kg would last just over 7 years in my tank! haha
> 
> Tank is coming along great, a great achievement  congrats



Thanks.
If it lasts 7 months I would be happy    Its just plant mayhem at the moment. Bit like my life.

I am going to try covering the viewable glass on the tank throughout the day time as its getting a lot of sun on it at the moment.( can cure that with some blinds on the window if it helps) Will see if that helps on the Algae front. Its all a big learning curve at the moment  but I am loving every minute of it.

Simon


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## Always Broke (26 May 2010)

danmil3s said:
			
		

> Where did you get a deal like that for gas think i need to drop the fes



Local supplier of beer gas. 
http://www.jgassupplies.co.uk/id2.html

Simon


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## LondonDragon (26 May 2010)

Clive (ceg) had his tank in a room that had plenty of light, if you have enough CO2 and ferts then you will be fine without the blinds, you might just need to clean the front glass more often.


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## Always Broke (26 May 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Clive (ceg) had his tank in a room that had plenty of light, if you have enough CO2 and ferts then you will be fine without the blinds, you might just need to clean the front glass more often.



At the moment I am just thinking that I want to try and keep it under control a bit ,until I have more understanding of what's going on and how to make adjustments to correct it.Hopefully reducing the direct sunlight will give me a bit of control back . Dose that make sense or is it total rubbish.

Simon


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## sanj (27 May 2010)

> Rental was Â£38 per year, and refill Â£35 I think. There were no terms at all, as much or as little as you like.
> Just had to buy a trolley to move it round though.



That is very good value.


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## danmil3s (27 May 2010)

thanks simon ill look in to pub gas where i am


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## Mark Evans (27 May 2010)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> Rental was Â£38 per year, and refill Â£35 I think. There were no terms at all, as much or as little as you like.



as much as you like eh? is that like 100kg and beyond then? that's cheap.

my boc account can only go up to 36 KG bottles Â£21 refilled @ 68 for rental.


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## Always Broke (27 May 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> as much as you like eh? is that like 100kg and beyond then? that's cheap.



You lost me there.


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## Always Broke (7 Jun 2010)

Just thought I would update things a bit.
Everything seams to be going fine. All the plants are doing great. The ones that were strugling have picked up now and are growing away.
I had to increase the EI dosing quantity's a bit but I did that by simply increasing the amount of time the dosing pump is running. I have made some small adjustments to the water flow and Co2 distribution to remove a few spots that were struggling. I did that by running a couple of small 12mm hoses from the top of my 40mm spraybar and directed them to the dead spots. I am also running two return pumps as well. An Aquamax 10,000 ltr hour and an Aquamax 5000 ltr hour pump. They both feed the same spray bar. Co2 is injected into the 5000 pump via a Ceramic air stone in its inlet port.
I am running on the Big Co2 bottle now.
Very little algae of any sort at the moment . I added some fish last weekend , all algae eating ones and they seam to be doing fine. 
We fitted some blinds to the windows to reduce some of the direct sunlight and that helped on the algae front no end.
Water changes are at 2 per week at the moment as opposed to the 3 previously.The lighting period is also increased from 6 to 7 hours running all 8 tubes.
Everything seams to be going fine at the moment thanks to all your help, especially Clive.
Will update with some pictures soon 
Regards 
Simon


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## chrisfraser05 (18 Jul 2010)

Wow. What a great setup you have. You've inspired me buddy 

Will keep an eye on this thread!


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## LondonDragon (18 Jul 2010)

Any updates on the tank? Photos?


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## Always Broke (19 Jul 2010)

A few quick pictures. 

Its still just a mixture of plants of which I am slowly learning about. 
Don't seem to have any problems. I have a lot of pleasure sitting watching this mini world existing.














Simon


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## LondonDragon (19 Jul 2010)

thanks for the photos, the tank is looking great, nice plant growth and health  congrats


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## Burnleygaz (19 Jul 2010)

Looks awesome


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## Mark Webb (19 Jul 2010)

Looking very nice Simon.


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## George Farmer (19 Jul 2010)

Congratulations on a great looking aquarium!  

I can imagine that's great to experience in the flesh.  Photos can rarely do large tanks justice.

Do you have a video function on your camera?  A video clip would be very cool...


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## FishBeast (19 Jul 2010)

that shrimp is massive. Bamboo shrimp?


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## JamesM (19 Jul 2010)

Wow, that's looking way better than I imagined mate, congrats! Have you changed the planting arrangement at all?


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## hazeljane (19 Jul 2010)

Very nice weel done.


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## Always Broke (19 Jul 2010)

Well its all a bit of a mismatch of plants and planting. That suits me really as I could not spend the time looking after a scape. I like the wild ,see what happens look. I have bought some plants from a couple of guys on here clearing out there tanks along with a mix of 50 or so fish.

It takes me about 40 mins to an hour a week on it. I get no algae problems. It sort of just looks after its self as long as I feed the plants and fish. Once a month I clean the prefilters in the sump, that takes all of ten to 15 mins 
The water change system still works perfectly along with the dosing pumps feeding the plants. I have had a couple of timmers that did not want to keep time but changing them for different ones fixed that. The 45kg of Co2 is ok . Just about to change it for a full one again. All in all I am happy.
Next year might see a bit of a change in planting once I come up with a few ideas. Mainly though I like seeing whats there developing.

Simon


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## JamesM (19 Jul 2010)

Yeah, this is totally my type of tank and planting scheme which I had a lot of fun helping plan. I like the tweaks and additions you've made too, and overall, I'm so happy its come out this good for you mate  

Please keep us updated


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## cookie3985 (19 Jul 2010)

I am enjoying seeing this tank develop. Myabe I have missed this in the journal but what species of fish and ivertabrates do you have in this huge setup?

You have a huge scope for fish selection so was just wondering if I have missed it. 

Top work so far.


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## eternal optimist (20 Jul 2010)

awesome tank. ive always dreamt of having an indoor heated pond in my conservatory, your efforts were fantastic - i'm very jealous!!


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## John Starkey (20 Jul 2010)

Hi Simon,i have just finished reading this journal from start to present,i cant imagine what this looks like in the flesh,

very well done to you,it looks awesome,
regards,
john.


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## LondonDragon (21 Jul 2010)

When do the tours start??


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## Always Broke (21 Jul 2010)

Anyone is always welcome. The kettle is always on.
Trying to borrow a Video camera at the moment.

Simon


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## chrisfraser05 (30 Jul 2010)

any new pics or vids?


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## sanj (2 Aug 2010)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> Anyone is always welcome. The kettle is always on.
> 
> Simon



Anyone...are you sure you wanted to say that Simon?


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## Always Broke (2 Aug 2010)

sanj said:
			
		

> Always Broke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Even you


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## johnson529 (5 Aug 2010)

wow that is an amazing tank. Well done, Must take some man hours maintaining every week.


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## Always Broke (5 Aug 2010)

johnson529 said:
			
		

> wow that is an amazing tank. Well done, Must take some man hours maintaining every week.



Maintaining it is easy. I take less than an hour a week now.
It looks better in the flesh. I am really happy with it. We spend hours every week just watching this little world.

Simon


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## danmil3s (3 Oct 2010)

hows the tank going simon, did you  manage to seal your sump.


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## alan_uk (6 Nov 2010)

tank looks awesome


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## Always Broke (6 Nov 2010)

I must post a couple of Pictures. The tank is still running fine. Everything still works perfectly. 
I have added cover glasses to the sump and to the main 95% of the tank. Covering the tank was to stop condensation in the conservatory. It also helps with the Co2. I am still not 100% happy with the way I introduce the C02 and will look into that in the near future. 
We enjoy going to the shops to get fish to go in it. I jot rid of most of the fast growing stems in the tank. It now is so easy to look after. It takes me about an hour a month now I don't have to hack a jungle back on a daily basis.
I need to add a few more rear tall plants at one end a sort a couple of other plants out but thats about it. 
We get a lot of pleasure just sitting and watching our little underwater world.

Simon


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## danmil3s (6 Nov 2010)

glad its going well simon and your enjoying it. how long does your co2 last now you have sealed your sump


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## sanj (6 Nov 2010)

Hey Simon,

this has been an interesting journal for me particularly becuase the tank is sumped and is a consideration for when I move. However the amount of co2 replacement you were initially doing would a bit prohibitive for me going down the sump route.

In my 1600 litre i have 2x 5kg bottles which last me at least 2months before i need to change. What is the change over for you now? i cant remember the co2 canisters you were using but i think it was alot larger size than i have.

Thanks


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## Always Broke (6 Nov 2010)

Hi Mate
Thats some tank you have there.
I have no idea how long its going to last but my Co2 usage is dramaticly less now I have added the cover glasses.
I use a 45kg bottle, I hope it will last until the new year.
I would hope to use 2 of theses a year .

simon


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## sanj (6 Nov 2010)

Hi, ok then that is a big improvement, 90kg and I am using 60kg in a year. I suppose though depending on the size of the sump and factoring it up I would probably need to look at using larger bottles and would probably looking at least double the co2 you are. Thanks for sharing, would love to see more photos on how plants are developing.


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## niru (18 May 2011)

Hello Simon

I am totally stumped and amazed by your journal, the make and the final product. Its simply awesome.

Any updated photos or vids on the tank??

(I know I am a bit late on this, but saw this only today!)


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## mrjackdempsey (18 May 2011)

Just read this, all 37 pages, what a inspiration,great tank Simon and great advice from many. Hope the tank is bringing you and your good wife many hours of pleasure. Plus need up to date pics


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## Always Broke (19 May 2011)

Thanks chaps.
The tank is still running fine. I have cut the Co2 and ferts down to limit growth. It basicly looks after its self.
I give it some attention once every 3 or 4 weeks for half an hour. Top up the dosing bottles as required,quick clean of the glass, wash off the glass tank lids and cut off anything thats got to big . I did give the substrate a going over with one of those suction things at the beginning of the year 
Everything still works perfectly just as when I fitted it. I did have a breakage of an up atomizer but that was my fault cleaning it.
I have added an air pump feeding two big stones in the sump over night. That was just for piece of mind after reading a few other threads. 
I feed the fish once a week and they are doing great. I only have algae eating occupants in the tank now.
The sump runs fine. The inlet foam filters are do for a clean, they come out and go in the washing mc (when the wife is not looking) on a quick wash. that's the only maintenance the sump seams to need every 3 or 4 mouths 
I love it. Yes I still have nothing fancy plant wise and its just planted randomly but it gives me great pleasure.
When I get a chance to borrow a camera I will get some snaps.

Simon


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## chilled84 (19 May 2011)

Always Broke said:
			
		

> Thanks chaps.
> The tank is still running fine. I have cut the Co2 and ferts down to limit growth. It basicly looks after its self.
> I give it some attention once every 3 or 4 weeks for half an hour. Top up the dosing bottles as required,quick clean of the glass, wash off the glass tank lids and cut off anything thats got to big . I did give the substrate a going over with one of those suction things at the beginning of the year
> Everything still works perfectly just as when I fitted it. I did have a breakage of an up atomizer but that was my fault cleaning it.
> ...



He' Alive lol, Thats right simon, Get some pics up! Your well over due. lol.


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## sanj (19 May 2011)

> I have added an air pump feeding two big stones in the sump over night. That was just for piece of mind after reading a few other threads.



Good move, I always use them overnight since some unpleasant experainces a few years ago.


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Sep 2011)

As a relative new comer to the forum, i only just stumble into this.  What an EPIC build!!! You are clearly a man of patience and precision!!  I doth my cap sir!!
Look forward to an up to date picture.


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## leonroy (1 Oct 2011)

Wonderful tank Simon, you've been inspirational not just with your stellar efforts but with how much stuff you've made yourself rather than getting pre-made (the drilled spray bar, the water change relay box, the sump, etc.)

Looking forward to watching pics (and hopefully a video!) of this tank grow, I can only dream that my large tank project will even come close to this one!


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## ejek (1 Oct 2011)

Like some others, I just stumbled onto this thread. What an absolutely amazing read. I can guarantee that there's a whole bunch of envious blokes out there. The comment way back where someone said this was "totally mental" was bang on the mark.

Would love to see this in the flesh one day, and in the mean time, updated photos would be awesome.

Simon - what an inspiration this is.

Alex.


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## Callum (2 Jan 2012)

This is simply amazing, what a huge amount of effort and commitment.


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## Lewisr (2 Jan 2012)

Just read all of this.... Wow... Amazing work there mate


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## LondonDragon (19 Jan 2013)

What happened to this tank? any updates?


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## timbob1387 (20 Jan 2013)

This tank looks mind blowing, my current 2ft looks a bit pathetic compared to this but I guess we've all got to start somewhere


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## cookie3985 (8 Feb 2013)

I was also very interested in this thread. Its a huge project, I want to know more.


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## LondonDragon (5 Feb 2014)

What ever happened to this monster???


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## hazeljane (17 May 2017)

Great read is this tank still going? ?


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## LocustDemon (20 May 2017)

hazeljane said:


> Great read is this tank still going? ?


No posts for a few years now mate, thanks for bringing it to the top though, a great read! Shame because I live in Cornwall and it would be nice to see it in person! 
Matt. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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