# ADA Amano Tanks...



## Emyr (22 Nov 2011)

I have been looking at the ADA tanks a lot recently on youtube 'ADA View' plus some other photos. That lead me to think about the flow rates, algae and co2 and lighting used on them. 

They only have 1 lily pipe on one side creating not a huge amount of flow around the tank, the co2 doesnt get washed all around the tank by the flow and just constantly rises to the surface, yet the plants inside the tanks seem to be pearling and oxygenating like crazy? 

Does the lack of flow not induce algae because of dead spots and the co2 not getting all around the tank? They always seem to look so perfect and nice without adding nitrogen to keep algae away either? 

I also found that when I added a lily pipe onto my tank that the flow was reduced significantly because the slots in the inflow pipe to the filter are so small. 

Any thoughts or opinions, etc on this one? Thanks.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (23 Nov 2011)

A question I have often wondered when it comes to Lilly pipes. They do seem to go against the thinking of what should be done when it comes to flow. Perhaps when they are put on youtube or pics you see some of the equipment has been removed.


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## NeilW (23 Nov 2011)

Although ADA's approach is unconventional they still manage a 'balanced' system which is key as they have developed all of their products to work together. An example of this is the lower then suspected lighting.

In respect to the slower flow rate I'm guessing theres two reasons why it works for them. Firstly they have staff that maintain the tanks daily and remove detritus which we usually rely on fast flow to achieve. Secondly a slower flow would mean a longer contact time between the CO2 gas and water. Thirdly the ADA substrate system is rich in nutrients which would help in regards to spreading nutrition throughout the tank. I'd also bet the flow would still be good despite it being slower.

Cheers,
Neil


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## Emyr (24 Nov 2011)

Nope, All the equipment is in place and working on all the ada view videos. Just one lily pipe and filter on a tank such as this one, seems like a minimal flow rate to me:




That is true about the Balance Neil. Also about the constant maintenance. What do you mean about the lower than expected light? Still don't see how all the plants are oxygenating so much in huge tanks when the co2 is only being diffused through a glass diffuser on one side and not being blown all around the tank.

I have a 60L like this one:



...... and found that the lily pipe just blows everything such as detritus onto the plants in the opposite end in the right hand corner.


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## clonitza (24 Nov 2011)

Please check the filter specs before saying that they use low flow rate, it may look like that because of the large spread of the lily but it's not. Regarding maintenance if you want your tank to look that way you must stick your hands in it often, whether you like it or not. 

http://www.adana.com.sg/productsPage/ad ... ation.html

Cheers,
Mike


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## cheebs (24 Nov 2011)

All pumps suffer when there is a restriction on the intake. Pumps are great at pushing, but dreadful at pulling. Did you try the lily pipe with a standard basket type intake?


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## Emyr (24 Nov 2011)

Mike, they recommend the ES-600EX2 for a 45cm high tank. I have a tank of this size, That filter gives out 6 litres per minute so 360 an hour. I have a rena xp4 on my tank which is supposedly 1700LPH plus a powerhead of 1600LPH and would say I have the perfect amount of flow, with the plants swaying around nicely. That is very true about the constantly daily maintenance. No debris or anything is allowed to build up or get caught in the plants because they remove it straight away. 

when I realised how much the lily pipe was decreasing the flow I put the horrid rena filter inlet pipe back on which has an open end with just a bit of a grill on it is that what you mean by 'basket type intake' ? which is not at all restricting.


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## flygja (25 Nov 2011)

Also, I think ADA's Superjet filters have been tested to show minimal loss of flow when media is loaded and hoses/inlets/outlets are connected, etc. An Eheim classic can suffer up to 50% loss, so my Eheim 2215's rated 600 l/h drops to 300-400 l/h, which is probably about the same as the Superjet EX600. So it also "meets" the 10x guideline.

I'm also baffled about the CO2 diffuser. Some tanks have the diffuser so high up the side of the tank when logic dictates that it should be placed as low as possible so that the bubbles have more contact time with the water.


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## foxfish (25 Nov 2011)

There would seem to be more ways than one to skin a cat!

I can remember my fist C02 tank back in about 1988, I used a basis ladder device to dissolve the gas, an under gravel heating cable, T8 lighting & a small external filter to power a 50 gal tank & 10% water change a week.

The results were great, I cant remember any algae issues & I kept the tank running for years & years.
On reflection I think the growth was pretty slow but at the time it was a revelation the plants grew at all!

Now I have about 200w running the same size tank & several hours a week maintenance + the occasional algae issues!
Maybe I need to rethink this hight energy set up & calm down a bit?
However we have to be realistic because those ADA tanks are the pinnacle of the hobby


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## AverageWhiteBloke (25 Nov 2011)

My first planted about 15 years ago was a 40gal with a no where near enough turnover canister fluval 2 I think connected to a bioplast inside the tank reactor that near enough needed a filter change every week or the reactor would stop working and just accumulate one big bubble in the top of it, 1x125 watt mercury vapour bulb overhead and water changes when I didn't have a hangover. Ferts from my LFS. Plants pearled and flowered, a photo I took of a pink nymph stellata flower on the surface I edited with all the dry salts names and stuck as labels on tupperware dishes which I still use to this day.

Technology has moved on and knowledge of plant needs has improved massively, somebody just wants to tell the plants that


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## leonroy (26 Nov 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> Also, I think ADA's Superjet filters have been tested to show minimal loss of flow when media is loaded and hoses/inlets/outlets are connected, etc. An Eheim classic can suffer up to 50% loss, so my Eheim 2215's rated 600 l/h drops to 300-400 l/h, which is probably about the same as the Superjet EX600. So it also "meets" the 10x guideline.
> 
> I'm also baffled about the CO2 diffuser. Some tanks have the diffuser so high up the side of the tank when logic dictates that it should be placed as low as possible so that the bubbles have more contact time with the water.



That's right, an ADA Superjet filter uses an Iwaki pump which on its own sells for £180-£300. They're usually used in reefing or when you're next at Maidenhead Aquatics they'll typically employ the larger Iwaki models to drive their stock tanks.

I think there was an article in a recent Aqua Journal which showed that the height of the CO2 diffuser in the tank  made very little difference to CO2 concentration. Can't find it at the moment though, but I believe they presented some hard numbers.

I agree, It's a shame that the inlets of the Superjet filters are so pants, the DoAqua! are a little better:





But tbh the ADA metal pipes are the best if you're less concerned with style over substance (in which case why buy ADA  )




Interestingly Amano said in an interview that he was changing his mind whether canister filters are good enough, and that he felt that wet-dry or sump based are far more effective...(which is what he uses on his big tank...).


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## Tsigania (2 Mar 2012)

Interesting topic... let me post this cool video where we can see almost all tanks from de Nigata gallery...
Some of them show some flow, some doesn´t even seem to have flow... 
Co2 diffuser pumping co2 straight up... no atomizers, reactor or whatsoever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0dQrSu2VSg&context=C37c3c78ADOEgsToPDskLsATyETLENDFQ6mqH2rFAh

Cheers!


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## George Farmer (2 Mar 2012)

I'm certain that the tanks in the NA Gallery are maintained daily, or at least several times per week - I suspect large partial water changes c/o daily too.  Filters/circulation can be less than perfect if daily water changes and maintenance tasks are performed... 

James Starr-Marshall ran some amazing aquascapes with no algae and no filters, relying on daily 80% water changes.


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