# 500l discus tank



## Lindy (28 Mar 2016)

Had decided I'd like a bigger tank for my lovely gourami. Might have over done it a tad though...




Introducing my 5x2x2ft 2nd hand tank. Going to change the cabinet panels to white gloss at some point as they are just help on with magnetic catches. Comes with a 3ft sump that I think I will keep. Need to take the blue off the weir though and replace with black with a black tank backing. Can't wait to get started. New house is a mess but I'd far rather get on with this  

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## Ryan Thang To (28 Mar 2016)

looking awesome lindy. you will need some big wood and rock for that size tank

discus would look amazing in that tank


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## Nelson (28 Mar 2016)

What gourami do you have ?.


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## Tim Harrison (28 Mar 2016)

OMG that's huge...you're much smaller than I imagined tho' Lindy


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## Sk3lly (28 Mar 2016)

Thts some upgrade!!! 


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## Lindy (28 Mar 2016)

Nelson said:


> What gourami do you have


I have liquorice, chocolate and vaillants gouramis although I'll need to beef up the numbers.


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## Lindy (28 Mar 2016)

Troi said:


> OMG that's huge...you're much smaller than I imagined tho' Lindy


Haha, that's my 5yr old. I have her to thank for returning to this hobby 5yrs ago as I thought I'd be bored being stuck at home with a new baby.

The tank is also optiwhite


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## Lindy (28 Mar 2016)

legytt said:


> you will need some big wood and rock for that size tank


I'm going to have both, Ryan,  but I'm going to mainly use some large plants for height.


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## Aqua360 (29 Mar 2016)

Impressive!


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## Greenfinger2 (29 Mar 2016)

Hi Idcgroomer, 

Wow  The tank of my dreams. Following


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## Andy Thurston (29 Mar 2016)

I wish I had room for a tank like that your sumps bigger than my tank. Cant wait to see what you do with it


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## Lindy (29 Mar 2016)

Annoyingly I have to sell off some more of my tanks and other equipment to buy the gear for this. So will need to get selling!

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## Lindy (1 Apr 2016)

For filtering this tank I'm thinking fx6 with spray bar. Figure if I need more flow I can add a pump? I do have a jbl e1501 that I was thinking of using with a co2 reactor. Would 2 jbl e1501s be sufficient? Fx6 is pretty good value for money though. Very annoyed I didn't buy when I saw them for £168 on amazon. IDIOT !!

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## Chris Jackson (2 Apr 2016)

I think that for a big tank like that 2 filters for filtration duty and then rely more on powerheads for flow circulation duties especially as they are easier to hide in a monster tank.


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Apr 2016)

Not sticking with the sump then?  


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## DTL (2 Apr 2016)

Lindy,
I'm using an EHEIM Thermo filter professionel 3 1200 XLT -2180 on a tank of this size.
€435 shipped from Aquaristikshop in Germany.
It gives loads of circulation and that's with the return split between two lily pipes.


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## Lindy (2 Apr 2016)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Not sticking with the sump then?


I wasn't sure I could get it running silently so the sump is sold.



DTL said:


> Lindy,
> I'm using an EHEIM Thermo filter professionel 3 1200 XLT -2180 on a tank of this size.
> €435 shipped from Aquaristikshop in Germany.
> It gives loads of circulation and that's with the return split between two lily pipes.


Thanks for that David, that is a great price. So you don't use anything else on the tank? Fluval fx6 is still £140 cheaper though and gets higher flow.


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## Lindy (2 Apr 2016)

Also looking at lighting options that aren't going to cost an arm and a leg. Allpondsolutions do t5 4tube setups with 2 power cables so you can stagger lighting. Very interested in DsunY led panels on ebay but wondering If I could get away with just 2 panels? I'm not sure about coverage though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DSunY-16-...hash=item1e983109ee:m:mR3hpzGt9MbGZaAINc57snA


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## DTL (2 Apr 2016)

Yes the Fx is cheaper but the eheim has an inbuilt heater and runs at 2/3 the power of the fluval, both are good options though.

Ref the lighting I have two 1m aquabars staggered to cover the full length of the tank.


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## Lindy (3 Apr 2016)

Now that is music to my ears as I have aqua bars! Wasn't sure they'd cope with the depth of 2ft but if you are happy with them is good enough for me! 

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## Eduard18 (3 Apr 2016)

looks like an amazing project  looking forward to see it come alive


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## Andy Thurston (3 Apr 2016)

Hi Lindy

I presume that this will be a low tech tank? In which case I think that the aquabars will be enough light . How many were you thinking about using?


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## Lindy (4 Apr 2016)

Thanks  Eduard. 

This will be lower light but I may run co2 at a low level. Not sure yet. I think I will buy 2 x 100cm aqua bars and then use the other 50cm aqua bars I already have to fill any dark spots there may be or just to simply boost the light.i have at least 2 white bars(perhaps 3 and one colour plus so shouldn't be short on light.

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## flygja (5 Apr 2016)

That's large. I thought you were gonna keep giant gouramis in there


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## Lindy (5 Apr 2016)

* thinking about a light fitting like this above tank..*

*Diablo Pearl Black Nickel & Chrome Effect 4 Lamp Bar Spotlight*
Product code:
05230457
Price

* £37*

Qty




 

 



Price

Product rating
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Recommended for Bedrooms and living spaces
Fixings supplied
Matching 3 lamp round spotlight and 1 lamp spotlight available
 Read more aboutDiablo Pearl Black Nickel & Chrome Effect 4 Lamp Bar Spotlight 

Brand



*Product notices*

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*Click & Collect*


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## Lindy (6 Apr 2016)

Scratch above idea. Think it will be DsunY led panels from eBay I'll go with. They are programmable with 4 channels. So you can do sunrise/sunset, lunar cycle etc. They get good feedback and they replied to my query very quickly.

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## Lindy (7 Apr 2016)

Bought the DsunY panels today

*) FP-C6-4/FW-C6-4 (4pcs 54cm length panel+1pcs Turing-P controller/Turing-W controller)
Features*

- 4 x 21.26 Inch(540mm) LED Light Fixtures
- LED quantity: 96pcs 3W Bridgelux LEDs
- Channel: 4 channels dimmable and programmable
- Power: 240W
- Programmable: Quick set/Spring/Autumn/Summer/Winter/LunarCycle/Moon/Slow Acclimation/Fast Growth/Vivid Color/Coral Fragging/Program modes
Dimension for each module:

- Length: 21.26 inches (54 cm)
 - Width: 4.7 inches (12 cm)
 - Thickness:1.5 inches (3.6 cm)






*

*


*Package includes:*


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## Lindy (9 Apr 2016)

Tonight I ordered the eheim 1200xlt. Toying with the idea of a eheim uv thingamajigie to combat bba which seems to thrive in acidic tanks with high organic matter. 
Looked at taking the weir out today but unfortunately the glass weir was siliconed in while the rest of the tank was siliconed so taking it out will wreck the tank. Instead I'm going to cap the weir with glass or thick perspex and then cover in coloured plastic the same colour as the background.
On a good note my new shrimp tank for the kitchen arrived ☺




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## DTL (10 Apr 2016)

You could always put your heater behind the weir with a pump to circulate the water back Into the main tank.
Edit Scratch that, I just noticed you have gone for the xlt


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## Lindy (13 Apr 2016)

Well the lights arrived yesterday which was a little quicker than I had anticipated. Unfortunately there was money to be paid for customs but only £19 so not bad at all. Very impressed with build quality but I guess time will tell although the beamswork led light that I bought a few years ago is still going strong. Not had a chance to really play around with them and they are just sat on the braces of the tank until I get the tank set up and canopy built, but coverage is excellent. Glad they are dimmable though as they are Extremely strong at 100% . Had a bit of fun mucking around with the different channels and changing the colours but have family staying so had to put down my toys...will take some pics later.

I have ordered 2 sets of these.



I'm now trying to decide what to clad the stand and hood in to get the gloss white finish I want. Choices are getting panels of mdf cut and either wrapped in vinyl or sprayed in a car paint shop, buying panels of 10mm white gloss acrylic cut to size or looking at what ikea has in the besta range. My husband and I have agreed the tank actually looks better with no panels on for now as the old beech look panels make it look much bigger and bulkier. 
Have ordered black acrylic to cover and cap the glass weir and will paint the back of the tank with chalk board paint so hopefully it will all blend.

Cheers..


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## Lindy (13 Apr 2016)

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## Lindy (21 Apr 2016)

The weir is now covered with black acrylic and the back of the tank painted with blackboard paint so looking a bit different. Decided to try pool filter sand as the silver sand I've bought before is far too fine. The pool filter sand is lovely colour and size so very pleased with it. The eheim 1200xlt has arrived from Germany and what a beast! Bit peeved it arrived without a plug adapter but that was simple enough to buy on ebay. My lfs is ordering in 30kg of dragon stone tomorrow so hopefully arrive soon as itching to get going. I have decided on a 2 island layout.
An interesting plant was for sale on a fb page so I bought and it arrived today. Najas roraima. The whole purpose for this update was to write this name down otherwise I will forget what it is  Still have to buy eheim quick release connectors for the external filters so it is easy to remove inlets and outlets for cleaning, they are expensive for what they are and I need 5 if I'm going to use both filters.

Cheers


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## Wisey (21 Apr 2016)

Looking good, following


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## Lindy (29 Apr 2016)

Got the islands done today. As you all know scaping is not my forte and this is my first time using so much rock so be gentle! I will add some small bits of stone here and there but have to get the hammer to it first. The wood is not final, just ideas... 

















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## Ryan Thang To (29 Apr 2016)

looking good. i might add some more wood in but once you get some discus and plants in it was be super dope. nice start so far

cheers
ryan

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## Lindy (29 Apr 2016)

My phone really sucked the colour out of those photos


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## Nelson (29 Apr 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> As you all know scaping is not my forte


Rubbish.That looks great .


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## Lindy (29 Apr 2016)

Thank you very much


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## Lindy (30 Apr 2016)

Had a bash at programming the lights last night. Should know better than to do these things when tired. Was nice watching them slowly dim and then go on to moonlight setting. In fact I looked more at the tank than the TV.  Wasn't so good when they came back on at 2am  . It was like something out of 'Close Encounters' . One down side of now living in a bungalow  . 

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Today I plan to pick up the wood to make a frame for the hood so the lights can be hung.


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Apr 2016)

looks great lindy, dual island is one of my favourite layouts.  If i was to criticize then id would only suggest  having a few areas of the rock stick out so its a little less uniform and circular, which will add points of interest to lead the eye around the tank...


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## rebel (30 Apr 2016)

Looks quite unique actually! Well done!!


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## Lindy (30 Apr 2016)

Iain Sutherland said:


> If i was to criticize then id would only suggest having a few areas of the rock stick out so its a little less uniform and circular, which will add points of interest to lead the eye around the tank...


Thanks for the input Iain. I have a few kg of rock left for this purpose. Some I will tie mosses and plants to. My pipes from China turned up today and now I'm trying to figure the best place for inlets and outlets. I'll post a sketch of the options and would be grateful for opinions.


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## Lindy (30 Apr 2016)

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The eheim has 2 inlets and one outlet. The second filter will not be as strong as the eheim and will have co2 atomiser at the inlet.


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## Lindy (30 Apr 2016)

The stainless steel pipes feel a really nice weight and the end cap screws off the inlet so I can add a shrimp guard on the end if I want. It means the pipes don't get blocked easily







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## FreeFall (3 May 2016)

wow you have been busy since I was at your bit


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## FreeFall (3 May 2016)

oh and you said you covered the weir in black acrylic is that just sheets cut then siliconed on ? cheers


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## Lindy (4 May 2016)

Yes, I cut sheets to fit and the siliconed on.
Have programmed the lights at 25% at the moment and now the power converter boxes are making an extremely annoying high pitched whine! I have contacted DsunY and sent them a video as requested so they are looking into it. The noise is so loud I can hear it over the TV!
On a happier note I filled the tank last night and started up the eheim monster for the first time. It has no problem at all pushing water the 5ft length of the tank! I then put the outlet from the jbl 1501 at the opposite end and I think this layout will work. There was lots of tiny bubbles in the tank so I could see how the flow was moving. I can now cut the perspex lid around all the pipework. I ordered plants last night too so they will hopefully be here for the weekend. 

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## Lindy (5 May 2016)

Tonight husband is working late so as soon as wee one was tucked up in bed I ignored the dishes and ironing as knocked together the frame of the hood so I can hang the lights. I think the plants will arrive tomorrow so had to get it done. Swapped the inlet on the jbl to see if it will stop sucking air. Sounds better already but now have ugly eheim tube in the tank. The stainless steel outlets are far too short for the depth of the tank so I will change them for black to blend in with the background. 


No idea how I'm going to plant this up as I've just added to the height of the tank with the frame  

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## Manisha (6 May 2016)

Don a snorkel  & ask your hubby to hold your ankles!!! Amazing tank ☺


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## Tim Harrison (6 May 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> No idea how I'm going to plant this up as I've just added to the height of the tank with the frame





ldcgroomer said:


>


Yeah but you're really really small so just buy some scuba gear...


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## Lindy (6 May 2016)

It is planted but my back is pretty knackered from doing it. I'm going to do as DTL has done and use a t junction to split the outflow from the eheim. With both filters on there is too much flow considering the fish I keep. The jet outlets I'm using send flow straight out across the tank so I'm going to cut a bit off the end of one to send flow down. Maybe I'll trim both outlets so both send the flow slightly down. The JBL is still getting some air despite me changing the inlet pipe for a new eheim one. It isn't coughing out air as it was but when I give it a shoogle there is often air inside. It is noisier than usual too.
The lights are incredible BUT there is a really annoying whine from the power convertor boxes. I could hear it tonight even with the tv on and the eheim hummimg a bit. I contacted DsunY who asked for a video to show their 'people'. When they saw/heard the video they said oh yes that's loud and then asked me how they could stop it doing that! I was like FFS that is your job! 
Next up will be putting mosses on stones and trying to get them where I want them. I will try really hard not to drop my tweezers again as I had a bit of a job getting them back out again. Think I need a second pair of tweezers for retrieving the first when I drop them 
The eheim Is a bit noisy too. I'm so intolerant of noise it is like torture in my lounge at the mo.


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## Tim Harrison (6 May 2016)

I completely empathise, I'm totally sensitive to noise as well - I reckon it fits the psychological profile of most of us dedicated planted tank enthusiasts/obsessives...I think it's called perfectionism
Sometimes it can seem like what's supposed to be a relaxing and enjoyable hobby can become a bit of a trial...hang in there, I'm sure it'll be worth it and you'll get it sorted to your satisfaction


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## Lindy (6 May 2016)

I'm ridiculous. I can't have a ticking watch in the bedroom and ticking clocks in the house. In fact when I was living alone in my wee flat my mum came over from France. We were both sleeping in my room and I could hear ticking. It drove me nuts. Turns out she had a tiny travel clock - in her luggage in the next room. She thought I was crazy when I was raking through her stuff and then yanking the batteries out of the torture device (clock).

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## Tim Harrison (6 May 2016)

Haha...that's not ridiculous...Personally, I dislike clocks and watches intensely...especially clockwork ones that tick when you're trying to get to sleep


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## Lindy (7 May 2016)

DTL said:


> It gives loads of circulation and that's with the return split between two lily pipes.


How did you make sure the flow was equal on both sides?


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## Christos Ioannou (7 May 2016)

hi,  nice huge tank. did you ever consider going open top? it adds an extra viewing angle and makes maintenance way easier. you will only need to figure out a way to hang the leds,  but seeing what you have done so far, its going to be a walk in the park for you.
Good luck! 

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## Lindy (7 May 2016)

Christos Ioannou said:


> hi, nice huge tank. did you ever consider going open top?


I have had open tops before but evaporation was pretty bad and you get fish jumping. I did think about just having a bracket for the lights as I have perspex lids but I would need a strip of something along the top of the tank to hide the ugly braces. I also got glare from the lights on my last tank so that is why I decided to box these ones in. Nothing is final though and if there is no blinding glare from these lights I will still consider having no hood. I just feel it will look more finished with a hood hiding all the wires as each panel has a power cable and then there are cables joining each panel. It would be easier for maintenance not having a hood though.

The Jbl e1501 is still sucking air so I've taken it off the tank and emailed JBL to see what they say. The filter was only bought last august so a bit disappointed.


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## EdwinK (7 May 2016)

Try pushing the primer button while filter is still working and then shake it good to release air. The primer button gasket my be dry.


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## Lindy (7 May 2016)

EdwinK said:


> Try pushing the primer button while filter is still working and then shake it good to release air.


I did this repeatedly all day until no air was coming out. I then left it running over night and by morning it was back to coughing up air again.


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## Lindy (7 May 2016)

How it is looking today, lights at 50%




There are a couple of pots of hygrophila augustifolia floating around but they are not staying for good.

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## DTL (10 May 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> How did you make sure the flow was equal on both sides?


I just used a Y junction to split the output.
I actually bought a couple of Eheim valves to allow adjustment, but I never needed them.


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## Lindy (10 May 2016)

I've split the outlet today, using a T-junction, and flow seems pretty even. I will run another filter but it will just be a wee ecco pro to act as a co2 reactor. Really don't like seeing a fine mist in the tank. 
Added 5 buces today. Brownie Phoenix, Brownie Phantom, Brownie Blue, Brownie Metallica and Kedang  Purple. Now I just want more  

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## Lindy (15 May 2016)

Today I made the hood frame taller so I could hang the lights higher. I wanted to try using just 2 panels at a higher % as they are currently at 25-30%. So it worked out, at the higher level I get full coverage with 2 panels. I am ordering a second controller so I can sell the 2 spare panels.









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## Lindy (15 May 2016)

I've decided to get a light hanging bracket and some trim for the top of the tank to hide the braces and do away with the hood. Shame after the time that I've spent on it but it will look much better.

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## Nelson (15 May 2016)

Will look a lot better.
But if you're ever down south,you can do some carpentry work at my house .


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## Tim Harrison (15 May 2016)

Yeah...good woodwork...I could do with some new bookcases.
You really are multi-talented, it's looking great already, and I'm sure it'll look awesome when you've finished.


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## Alexander Belchenko (16 May 2016)

Smaller island looks like a nest. I can't imagine how hard to handle such big tank. Kudos!


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## Lindy (16 May 2016)

Nelson said:


> But if you're ever down south,you can do some carpentry work at my house





Troi said:


> ..I could do with some new bookcases.


Ha. If either of you saw it up close you would not let me past the front door lol..



Alexander Belchenko said:


> Smaller island looks like a nest.


I have some rocks I'm trying to grow fissidens on and have more  buces coming. Hopefully these will all serve to make things less round looking!



Alexander Belchenko said:


> I can't imagine how hard to handle such big tank. Kudos!


The worst issue I am having is I hate the misty look from the atomiser. It makes the water look cloudy. I'm looking at using my ecco pro130 as a reactor with the atomiser at the intake. I've been looking at commercial reactors but there are issues with them being fragile and noisy. I'll be happy if the whole thing doesn't turn into a big algae fest. My fe ran out but new one should arrive today or tomorrow.


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## Lindy (21 May 2016)

While I love my DsunY lights I have been having "issues". One of the panels stopped working and was flashing on occasionally. I checked all connections. I was alarmed to find that the plug that goes into the power converter was so hot that the plug was floppy and too hot to unplug. After switching off at the mains I took the plug out and it was squishy and made a crunchy noise. The metal connections inside the power converter were discoloured and pitted.






 I checked all the plugs at that point and one other was hot and the metal connection starting to discolour so I took those two panels down. This is how I discovered that 2 panels would have been more than enough light and coverage for the tank. Dsuny in China maintain that none of their panels or converters make any noise at all. They are hugely surprised about the plug/converters failing as apparently this has never happened either. I have also told them I'm not very happy that they recommend 4 of these panels for a planted tank of 5x2x2ft when 2 would have been more than enough. I have found these lights can be purchased in the UK from the dsuny UK Facebook page. There is also a dsuny led owners Facebook page and they said they would have recommended 2 panels for my tank. Pretty pi$$ed with DsunY China at the moment!








The horrible mist effect. 




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## alto (21 May 2016)

So disappointed to read this update 

At this point I'd be pursuing a full refund, this degree of FAIL could've easily led to disaster ... as DsunY seem to be in a state of denial, file a dispute with Ebay


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## Lindy (21 May 2016)

alto said:


> At this point I'd be pursuing a full refund, this degree of FAIL could've easily led to disaster ... as DsunY seem to be in a state of denial, file a dispute with Ebay


I think you are right!


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## Lindy (21 May 2016)

I think dsuny have been rather clever. I had started a returns procedure as I was so unhappy. dSUNY assured me they would resolve the issue and asked me to cancel my returns thingie as it was being delt with. I have just discovered that once closed, you can't request a return again. I think I will have to get in touch with ebay for help on this.


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## Greenfinger2 (21 May 2016)

Hi Idc, Sorry to hear this,Did you pay by paypal you could also contact them.


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## Lindy (21 May 2016)

I paid by paypal so I'll see what I can do there.


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## alto (22 May 2016)

Include details of your communications with DsunY & the latest unit failure - try every Ebay/Paypal contact you can find (I've seen some successful applications on other forums, sorry don't remember the details re contact information, hopefully Google etc will bring something up)


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## DTL (22 May 2016)

I would say that those plugs were a fire risk. You could maybe report this to the safety standards people.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/product-liability-and-safety-law


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## Lindy (22 May 2016)

Thanks guys. I have started a dispute directly through PayPal. 

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## Lindy (4 Jun 2016)

Got back from 10 day holiday and the tank isn't looking too bad considering it is a new set up and it hasn't been touched in 10 days. Diatoms and some algae but the plants look in good health. The hygrophila pinnatifida has been doing well and one plant has branched out and attached to wood. The crypt petchii melted but is coming back a lovely pink. 














Will wc tomorrow and add the first fish in a couple of days.

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## Lindy (11 Jun 2016)

I finally got my refund of £100 for the returned faulty panels from DsunY.  Was a bit disappointed it took the UK rep until the 8th of June to collect my parcel from his local post office where it had been sitting since the 26th of May. Even DsunY in China were wondering what was going on. I live these lights, despite the whine, but not sure I would buy them again if these break. It is a lot of light and a programmable controller for £200 though. 
Still fiddling about with flow and have an 'o' bubble lily on the right hand end and a jet outlet (pointing down) in the back left hand corner pointing to the front of the tank.
Also replaced the wooden frame with an aluminium light stand that is not bad at all for only £45. I'll tidy away all cables and controller at some point when I've stopped fiddling.












Thanks for looking...

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## Nelson (11 Jun 2016)

Nymphaea looks great .Think I might have to get a couple for my low tech.
Have you got a link for the light stand ?.


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## Ryan Thang To (11 Jun 2016)

glad you got your led sorted. nice light stand too. once plant fill up its going to be awesome


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## Lindy (11 Jun 2016)

Sorry no link as on phone but it is on eBay and Amazon. Mine arrived without screws to clamp it to the tank so the seller has posted some. 





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## Nelson (11 Jun 2016)

Thanks .
Did you solve the JBL filter problem.


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## Lindy (11 Jun 2016)

Jbl sent me a new hose lock bit for the canister as that was the last place I could think it was sucking air from. I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to fit it so the filter is out in the garage for now. Hopefully that will solve it but who knows.

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## Lindy (11 Jun 2016)

I need to replace the stainless steel inlets too as they are too short for a 60cm deep tank.  Maybe I'll use one when I set up my juwel 180 otherwise I wasted money on stainless steel pipes.

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## Lindy (20 Jun 2016)

So it is about 6 weeks or thereabouts since this was planted. The o bubble and jet were to be replaced by 2 o bubble lilys  from co2 supermarket but the lilys had a much smaller 'ball' and were not suitable for my needs so co2 supermarket were kind enough to let me return them. I now have a spray bar on the right side facing left across the tank. There is a jet on the left corner facing forward and down.
The fish have been moved in plus 20 pencil fish. The paros seem especially happy with 2 males having nests in the caves and visiting females.





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## Lindy (23 Jun 2016)

I love these fish.









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## Nelson (23 Jun 2016)

I like them .Licorice ?.


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## Ryan Thang To (23 Jun 2016)

wow those colours. amazing


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## Lindy (24 Jun 2016)

Nelson said:


> I like them .Licorice ?.


Yes.

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## BBogdan (24 Jun 2016)

Very nice fish ! , I hope to find him also in Romania .


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## Lindy (24 Jun 2016)

If you go on Facebook page 'Friends of parosphromenus ' you might find someone that has them.

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## Greenfinger2 (5 Jul 2016)

Hi Idcgroomer, Scape is coming along great wonderful fish too


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## Lindy (5 Jul 2016)

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Idcgroomer, Scape is coming along great wonderful fish too


Thanks


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## Lindy (13 Jul 2016)

Not much doing...still trying to get light right as I have a dusting of green algae on the substrate. Pulled the lily out on the left side as the flow either tied it in knots or  pulled the leaves under. Not really liking the island on the left side and thinking about sliding it over to the right. 
Flow from the eheim is now coming out one outlet which is a spray bar on the right hand side. Believe it or not, this creates ample circular flow and my crypt balansae flows in the right direction. 
I added a beautiful floating plant the name of which I now can't remember. Asian water grass or something like that. It has beautiful roots. The lily on the right has 3 leaves on the surface.  Eventually I'll take out the salvina natans. New fish added recently have been 9 corydoras habrosus and chocolate loach

.

 















I have to mention the nightmare of yesterday when I was netting out my male betta simplex from the 80x60x40 tank. He is holding fry so I wanted him separated. Anyway, caught him quickly and was congratulating myself when he jumped out of the net and went down the back of the tank. I shouted Oh My God!!!! He's going to die!!!! My husband had just arrived home from work. He rushed through and pulled the tank and stand out of the alcove, something I would never have managed as full it weighs over 250kg! Fish was quickly caught and is still holding his fry today. 


Husband currently has hero status! The female betta is holding a vigil where she can see her mate in the hob.


Sorry for long winded post!

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## Ryan Thang To (13 Jul 2016)

wow i love the your choices of fish. and about the island i can see what you mean now its smaller than the other one but im sure you will come up with some better. same happen to me when i try to net out my shrimp and shrimp decided to jump out and land behide the back sump. of course i havent seen it because i have to empty the tank and pull it out of the stand to reach behid. keep up the good work

cheers
ryan

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## EdwinK (13 Jul 2016)

That floating plant could be _Hygroryza aristata_


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## Lindy (13 Jul 2016)

That is the one EdwinK, thanks.

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## Nelson (13 Jul 2016)

Can I ask where you got the paros from and what you feed them.


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## Manisha (13 Jul 2016)

Your tank rocks! Sorry your tiger lotus didn't work out - it was beautiful  I can't imagine how your husband moved that - is he superman?! Glad you rescued your Betta  and hope snorkeling is going well


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## AnhBui (14 Jul 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> Not much doing...still trying to get light right as I have a dusting of green algae on the substrate.
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


You can't get rid of green algae but get some bottom dwellers for cleaning. They will be big help. In case you don't want to have more fishes then a VAC from Eheim or Fluval


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## Lindy (14 Jul 2016)

Manisha said:


> I can't imagine how your husband moved that - i


It wasn't this tank! This one must weigh more like 600+kg! It was a 190l tank with a very heavy stand that he moved.  

Also I still have a lily in the tank although neither are/were tiger lotus. This ones surface leaves stay smaller than the tiger lotus.

Cheers ☺


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## Lindy (14 Jul 2016)

Nelson said:


> an I ask where you got your paros from and what are you feeding


I got my original 2 pairs of Paros from Colin Dunlop at the fish hut in Carluke a couple if years ago. If you get onto Facebook friends of parosphromenous you can find uk breeders and know exactly what kind you are getting. Mine eat micro and grindle worm, baby brine shrimp and frozen lobster eggs and some of them will take frozen bloodworm.


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## Lindy (14 Jul 2016)

Manisha said:


> d hope snorkeling is going well


Haha, no snorkeling but I do find I often have a wet armpit and my hair gets wet too If I forget to tie it up  . It is much easier to lean into the tank without the hood frame though.


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## Manisha (14 Jul 2016)

Reading too fast... I was admiring the tank & thought the floating plant resembled my nymphoides so. Taiwan - and there was a red version called tiger lotus :-S Sorry, new & learning! You've really done a really great job with a challenging tank


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## Chris Jackson (14 Jul 2016)

Coming on v nicely!
 I wouldnt worry about the substrate algae too much, it's only to be expected really. There's no such thing as zero algae it's just a good algae plant balance we're after, just stir the sand regularly or indeed now you can let the loaches and corydoras do that for you.


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## Lindy (28 Jul 2016)

I didn't like having so little wood so did a little wood shopping....













Got it soaking as I type...
The substrate algae has much reduced since reducing the lighting intensity  by 15%. 
After trying to get more chocolate gourami for the last 2 yrs I've given up. I now have a slightly different fish shopping list, some of which are at Colin Dunlops already. Won't say what until I have them but I had to take the Chocolate gourami out of the big tank and will try to catch as many of the Betta channoides and liquorice gourami as I can. Not so easy when they have so much rock work to hide in  

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## Manisha (28 Jul 2016)

Really nice wood, tank still looks awesome - glad you've got your algae problem in check...looking forward to the next installment


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## EdwinK (28 Jul 2016)

Lindy said:


> Not so easy when they have so much rock work to hide in


Try doing that at night with no ambient light present. Locate your potential target and blind it with a flashlight and you'll get them easy.


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## Nelson (28 Jul 2016)

Looking forward to your new fish choice .


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## alto (29 Jul 2016)

Hurrah for the wood  




Lindy said:


> After trying to get more chocolate gourami for the last 2 yrs I've given up



Seems that "chocolate" gouramis are just finally beginning to ship again ... even Aq Glaser only recently listed _S vaillanti_

I sort of "got lucky" - one shop that been ordering _S. osphromenoides_ weekly since Dec had a group arrive, I scooped some the next day (they were too stressed for me to feel comfortable about selecting individual fish). Another local wholesaler also had a shipment arrive.
2 weeks later I've only had 3 actual losses but the entire group is sick - they've been eating so are in much better shape than upon arrival (paper thin )
- but they've been battling that crazy med-resistant ich 




Lindy said:


> I now have a slightly different fish shopping list, some of which are at Colin Dunlops already


very excited to see what's coming


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## Lindy (10 Aug 2016)

The wood is still a little floaty but nothing a couple of rocks can't sort temporarily.  Much of the wood has 3 different varieties of anubias and 3 different varieties of buce. Looks much better to me.



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## Ryan Thang To (10 Aug 2016)

that i really like adding extra wood make a big difference. i would maybe add some more single wood to the left or add some taller plants like what you did with the right side. other than that awesome so far keep up the good work. can't wait to see the new fish. ps they are also on my fish list

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## Lindy (10 Aug 2016)

Thanks Ryan, there is a large variety of anubias on the left that should fill the gap and also some aponogeton crispus that has been very slow to get going. I didn't put crypt balansae as the flow goes from right to left and I didn't want the balansae getting blown down to the left against the glass. This is going to be a slow burner lol.. The wood on the left is the floaty stuff so it isn't in its final position either but wanted to get the plants tied on and growing. After giving up on them Colin Dunlop finally managed to get me some chocos so will be adding around 20 in a couple of weeks. 

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## Ryan Thang To (10 Aug 2016)

Lindy said:


> Thanks Ryan, there is a large variety of anubias on the left that should fill the gap and also some aponogeton crispus that has vein very slow to get going. This is going to be a slow burner lol.. The wood on the left is the floaty stuff so it isn't in its final position either but wanted to get the plants tied on and growing. After giving up on them Colin Dunlop finally managed to get me some chocos so will be adding around 20 in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


that one 20 that going to be amazing. how much are they selling for?

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## Lindy (10 Aug 2016)

Colin generally doesn't charge me retail prices. Kesgrave Tropicals had quoted £6 each for chocos. 

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## Alex J (11 Aug 2016)

The added wood has made a real difference, looking good . seems the price of  s.osphromenoides has come down somewhat , i got a group of six a couple of months ago for £20.00 . lovely little fish looking forward to seeing pictures of yours once settled in the new tank.


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## Lindy (11 Aug 2016)

Kesgraves price was what they quoted me a few weeks ago.

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## Lindy (21 Aug 2016)

I added 20 tiny little chocolate gourami on friday after acclimatising for 4 hrs. They settled in really quickly, swimming all round the tank. The video was taken on friday night. They have continued to colour up beautifully. I am so chuffed 
I had to take the adult gourami out as they were set on trying to kill the flock of tiny stripey babies that were keen to follow them around. Once the babies have grown I'll put the adults back in. The tank is not this bright, the phone lightened it considerably.


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## Nelson (21 Aug 2016)

Beautiful .Glad you finally got some.


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## Lindy (21 Aug 2016)

Thanks Nelson.










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## Alexander Belchenko (22 Aug 2016)

Very beautiful fish! Really like it. Never seen them in our LFS, I suspect it's due their water chemistry requirements (we have medium hard water here). What's your parameters, Lindy? Do you plan to breed them?


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## Lindy (22 Aug 2016)

Tds is in the 90's ph 5.5. If I'm lucky enough for them to breed and I have a fish room up and running I will separate any brooding fish to raise the fry separately.  These chocos are tiny and have a lot of growing to do. I'll just be happy if I can keep them healthy.

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## alto (22 Aug 2016)

They look amazing - kudos to Colin for getting in such healthy stock!

It's really such a fantastic tank for them ... funny how the adults were keen on saying "stay away"

The latest group I got were mixed, some half adult size, the rest maybe 1/6 adult size, no real obvious aggression but after initial quarantine I separated by size & the littles are much more out & about now


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## Manisha (22 Aug 2016)

They are lovely ☺ Your tall narrow leaf plant (crypt?!) really compliments their stripes.


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## tim (23 Aug 2016)

Stunning little fish lindy, this scapes come on really well, the addition of the extra wood has added the height the island's needed, love it.


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## Lindy (23 Aug 2016)

Manisha said:


> Your tall narrow leaf plant (crypt?!) really compliments their stripes.


That is Crypt Balansae. it has been really slow to get going but new leaves now.


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## Lindy (23 Aug 2016)

alto said:


> funny how the adults were keen on saying "stay away"


I didn't think the adults would bother with these tiddlers. Initially the adult seemed freaked as the tiddlers seemed to want to follow her and then she started lunging at them. she is so big compared to them I was worried she might actually do some damage. I'm not sure if it is because my 2 have been on their own for so long? The boss of the 2 really pushes the other one around and I'd separated them before the tiddlers arrived, hoping to put eveyone together once they were settled in so the little ones only had one adult to contend with. I'll let them grow a good bit bigger and then try again.
Colin always gets great fish in and these were no exception. He liked them so much he has kept some for one of his house tanks. The only problem about going to Colins Is you see so many nice fish you can never have enough tanks.  Then there are the frogs, toads, newts, ferrets and carnivorous plants. Heaven!


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## Lindy (23 Aug 2016)

tim said:


> love it.


Thanks very much Tim, it is finally looking more how I wanted it


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## Lindy (23 Aug 2016)

I am running low level pressurised co2 and getting less of the fizzy effect since I dropped the bubble count a bit and added a small powerhead to blow the mist across the bottom of the tank. I have also dropped the lights to around 30% as I was getting a considerable amount of green algae on the substrate and bba on the rocks. The tank does get some natural daylight so that doesn't help. Fortunately my husband thinks it all looks more natural and settled in since the rock got a little algae on it


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## Daveslaney (23 Aug 2016)

Coming along great.
If you look at the journal ESCAPE on here there is a great way of stopping the co2 fizz reaching the tank from the inline diffuser using a APS filter booster.Costs around £20.


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## Lindy (23 Aug 2016)

Daveslaney said:


> If you look at the journal ESCAPE on here there is a great way of stopping the co2 fizz reaching the tank from the inline diffuser using a APS filter booster.Costs around £20.


Thanks for that. I don't like inline diffusers as they tend to get blocked rather quickly. I did set up an eheim ecco pro with the bazooka on the intake but it burped alot. I had considered using the aps boosters and I have 2, one one each inlet pipe going to the external. I thought if I reversed the inlet and outlet on the booster it would keep the co2 in until dissolved. I may do this yet. Toying with the idea of changing the eheim to 2 smaller filters as I have to take it apart inside the cabinet as it is too big and can't just roll out due to the way the stand is designed. This is why I have the boosters on the inlets, means the eheim rarely needs opened!


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## alto (23 Aug 2016)

Lindy said:


> Colin always gets great fish in and these were no exception. He liked them so much he has kept some for one of his house tanks. The only problem about going to Colins Is you see so many nice fish you can never have enough tanks.


There's just _something_ about chocolate gouramis 

Did Colin manage to bring in any of the S vaillanti & acrostoma? all 3 species have been on the lists for the first time in ages (shop has an order in so hoping _some_ arrive)



Lindy said:


> I didn't think the adults would bother with these tiddlers


I wonder if it was more a reaction to the keenness of the tiddlers & the adults were just
_I don't know who you are or what you want, but just stay AWAY_



Lindy said:


> Initially the adult seemed freaked as the tiddlers seemed to want to follow her and then she started lunging at them. she is so big compared to them I was worried she might actually do some damage. I'm not sure if it is because my 2 have been on their own for so long?


I've also had a single remaining female that's been alone for some time, I was concerned she might not be instantly keen so had moved her to another tank. When I added the bigger 10 or so, she dimmed to that grey brown (but not mottled) coloration they can do, every fin erect & very still.
The first couple I added went straight to her & stayed - she didn't seem to react at all just staying in that frozen pose
The next several went to opposite end of the tank & gathered there.
Over the next couple hours she seemed to pretty much ignore them, the first few that had chosen her "side" remained with her, not joining their previous group.
The next day they all seemed to just wander freely through the tank ... she's easily identified by her relative "thickness" but some of the others are near her size otherwise.

In contrast there's one (male?) in the littles group that is a lunger/bravo - he "claimed" the floating plant raft, chasing off everyone but a select couple of friends 
I noticed this activity in the first few days after separating the group, he seems to have settled now  ... or perhaps the territory has just been "won"  - I looked in the dim tank now & there's a trio near the plant raft & the remaining group chilling elsewhere 




Lindy said:


> The tank does get some natural daylight so that doesn't help


I've one tank that gets considerable sunlight through the day - I run low level CO2 24/7, then increase CO2 for the photoperiod etc - this seems to work.

I'm also a fan of the wood, I think it suits choco's


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## Manisha (25 Aug 2016)

Thank you  as it is a crypt species it's a consideration for my low tech


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2016)

Finally I got the mdf cut and wrapped for the stand, Yey! Unfortunately added on 12cm instead of 12mm to the 2 front panels at each end so had a shame faced trip back to b&q to have the extra removed, boo! 
I would have liked to get white or off white gloss wrap but was worried about buying a big roll online just to find I was crap at wrapping so just got the least offensive wrap b&q had and then I could return the rolls I didn't use if I was crap. I ended up with white, gloss, wood effect. I did the side panels first so if they were untidy they wouldn't be right in your face. As it turned out was straight forward and through trial and error found best method for corners. 



I didn't buy the squeegee thing, just used a 30cm ruler  











 

The panels are attached by magnetic clips as hinges and hanging doors are beyond me. Still to attach the side panels but have some pipework to move first. I know it would look better as one flawless panel but reality is that a 5ft panel is going to be a pain to take off for maintenance. I unfortunately live in the real world...

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## Nelson (1 Sep 2016)

That looks the dogs...........


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2016)

Nelson said:


> That looks the dogs...........


Thanks Nelson!


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## Lindy (1 Sep 2016)

For trimming the top of the tank to hide the braces I have some 'T-REX' tape which is similar to duck tape but a darker grey and better looking. It is also seriously sticky!


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## Manisha (3 Sep 2016)

Looks really professional & you'd barely notice it wasn't made from a single panel - this is definitely on of my favourite journals as I remember reading it when I first joined ukaps and your daughter made it look huge  It's progressed really well!


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## Lindy (4 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Did Colin manage to bring in any of the S vaillanti & acrostoma?


He ordered 20 of both but only got 4 vaillants...



Manisha said:


> this is definitely on of my favourite journals as I remember reading it when I first joined ukaps and your daughter made it look huge  It's progressed really well!


What a lovely thing to say and thank you very much!

Unfortunately I'm having to treat the chocos for velvet . They had a 3 day blackout and treated with Esha Exit and Hexamita(at 1/2 dose) but after treatment I put carbon in to remove the meds and by that evening I had fish struggling at the surface . Removed carbon and immediately started treatment with protozin at half dose due to soft water and loaches. This morn there are no fish at the surface and no bodies so the gamble has hopefully paid off. Normally I would not do 2 treatments so close together. Raised temp to 28 and have 5 more days of treatment. Hopefully my plants will survive but they are more easily replaced than these lovely fish.


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## alto (4 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> 4 vaillants...


fantastic - I'm still trying for these (they've been on the lists but none shipped for whatever reason )



Lindy said:


> Unfortunately I'm having to treat the chocos for velvet


Sorry to read this ... hope all goes well

I've been struggling with mine as well - first lot came with some of the worst ich (apparently shop & wholesaler lost their stock as well) - none of the meds I tried made any difference ... or perhaps they just allowed the fish to linger on, fish would begin feeling better, then relapse, mostly just saw a few spots, then one day they were absolutely covered  

Second lot has done much better BUT I also decided to feed medicated food - I chose Seachem's Metronidazole (used with Focus to improve binding of the metronidazole to the food), it has anti-bacterial as well as anti-parasitic activity & leaves food palatable: feed 3-5 days, then repeat in 1-2 weeks (or few days if you see any return of any symptoms), during this time I feed quite heavily every 12 hours or so, food is a mix of decapsulated brine shrimp eggs & frozen

I've also been doing more water changes & fish always seem "happier" afterwards.


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## Lindy (4 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> - I chose Seachem's Metronidazole (


I'll see how they go with the Protozin but will buy in the stuff you mentioned to have if necessary. Today they are back to active and feeding well.


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## Lindy (6 Sep 2016)

We are about to embark on a loft conversion. A steel joist has to be put in the lounge ceiling. Right above the tank. We had assumed that it would  go in from above but noooo, ceiling and wall have to be cut into. Right above the tank. So I'm going to have to strip it down     



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## Nelson (6 Sep 2016)

Oh crap..........................................


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## Ryan Thang To (6 Sep 2016)

no way..... load it on some wheels and move it to 1 side

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## Manisha (6 Sep 2016)

On no, this is a sad update


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## EdwinK (6 Sep 2016)

Ryan Thang To said:


> no way..... load it on some wheels and move it to 1 side
> 
> Sent from my SM-N915FY using Tapatalk


Indeed it can be done with only a bit of water left for fish while moving it.


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## Ryan Thang To (6 Sep 2016)

yep i would do that rather than start all over. all your hard work there lindy


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## alto (6 Sep 2016)

frustrating news 

Hope fish are feeling better

but take a look at the wheels Mark Evans put on his tank
(I just searched in Featured Journals for wheels + Mark Evans - there are a few posts with mention)


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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Do you have any photos of your vaillanti?


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

The wheels have to be screwed to the base so wouldn't be able to get them on now. Also they are very expensive as I did consider them for my other tank. The tank and stand are incredibly heavy just with a little water in. I put felt feet on the base so could slide on our oak floor but just a couple of inches of water made this impossible and the stand creaked alarmingly  (I did not build it ) This is a pretty big tank and has 20kg of rock and a large amount of soil too. I also want to move the fish to another room away where there is less work being done so not so much dust. I'm probs going to set up the juwel 180 has a holding tank for the fish.


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> frustrating news
> 
> Hope fish are feeling better
> 
> ...


One of the chocos has virtually no tail left. I was feeding them and checking by torch light. Not sure if they are getting a secondary infection. Heart breaking to see. All the other species  in the tank are fine and healthy looking, it is just the chocos suffering. The other tank is fine though and the 2 adult chocos in there are still doing great.

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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Do you have any photos of your vaillanti?


I lost all the vaillants.  One died soon after arriving. It was being bullied by one of the others then became sick. I had the other 2 for a couple of months but one was always bullying the other and eventually it became sick too. The last one then set about bullying the much larger adult chocos. One day it was dead, no sign of disease or even of being off colour beforehand. So I have none and wouldn't have them again. I prefer chocos but if this lot don't make it i won't get any more and my 2 adults will just have to get along unless I can find someone local keeping a large group successfully. 

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## Tim Harrison (7 Sep 2016)

Looking great...straight forward and with a ruler
Not quite the same I know, but I put B&Q frosted film on the back of my shallow. What a mare; it took me 3 attempts to get right (had to buy more) and even then it's a bit dodgy in places so I reckon you've done really well.

I always use eSHa products because they can be used together to give a broad spectrum treatment if necessary, and they are very effective and shrimp and plant safe
Good you've got it all under control now tho'.

P.S. what's the secret to doing the corners?


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

Tim I had given them a course of esha exit and Hexamita and then run carbon to remove the meds. Within 8hrs they were at the surface some with difficulty swimming. 
Corners? Be really careful lol...

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## Tim Harrison (7 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> I had given them a course of esha exit and Hexamita and then run carbon to remove the meds. Within 8hrs they were at the surface some with difficulty swimming.


Ok that's a bit concerning. Do you reckon that was to do with mixing the meds? I'd be interested to know 'casue Exit and Hexamita are supposed to be safe together and well tolerated.


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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Heartbreaking 
these fish seem to have little resistance to aquarium (trade) diseases (may go to their natural habitat re low pH etc)

I usually treat with formalin (eg, Hikari Ich X for salt water) for external parasites as they seem to tolerate this well BUT recent ich bout showed limited sensitivity to formalin or Seachem ParaGuard (fish were "managing" as long as I maintained high med dose, but relapse was swift as soon as I backed off on formalin/ParaGuard & fish always showed some ich spots, then secondary infections as time stretched on)
I lost all of the first group
When a second group showed a first ich spot, again started with formalin etc, then after a few days began feeding the Metro-food, within 36h they looked their best since arrival - all fin blemishes etc cleared within 3 -4 days
BUT I still lost another choco that suddenly was isolated at bottom corner, no food response, then DOA next day (I'm convinced these are bacterial infections - Kanamycin would be my antibiotic of choice (Seachem) but with choco's it's not well tolerated as a bath & food palatability isn't great)

For good news, the _S acrostoma_ group has been outstanding, they went straight onto Metro-food (and they are sourced from a transhipper & farm that would always be my first choice ... if I had my choice in these things  ) These guys are active & not shy at all (after the first couple days) - much more outgoing than _S osphromenoides_ ... which means they don't really sound like (interwebz reports) _acrostoma_
I subjected my group to close scrutiny - they certainy look nothing like
Wild Sphaerichthys acrostoma  

I fed frozen bloodworm today & it seemed like not enough judging by the post-lunch aggression, so I added in some frozen brine shrimp - although I've seen these guys eat plenty of frozen brine, today it was as if I'd given them bits of paper   (except the _Neocaridinae_ shrimp said different) ... they got more bloodworm for dinner  
(the _S acrostoma_ have been kept very separate from the _S osphromenoides_)

Anyway apologies for my rambling on your journal 
(again  )



Lindy said:


> I also want to move the fish to another room away where there is less work being done so not so much dust.


agree on this one!
I suspect fish would much prefer being distant from the construction.


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

Tim Harrison said:


> Ok that's a bit concerning. Do you reckon that was to do with mixing the meds? I'd be interested to know 'casue Exit and Hexamita are supposed to be safe together and well tolerated.


I think that the velvet was still present and without meds in the water it had perhaps taken advantage of this? I'm not sure but the fish were fine while on the meds so I wouldn't blame them.


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

alto said:


> Kanamycin would be my antibiotic of choice (Seachem) but with choco's it's not well tolerated as a bath & food palatability isn't great)


I have Furan 2 which treats gram positive and negative. Just not sure about dosing that along with the protozin. I'm wondering if the protozin  isn't working as I half dosed because of soft water and sensitive fish combo. All the other fish seem tp be coping fine, my couple of liquorice males left in the tank have excellent colour and the eel loach are out and about. Many of the chocos look fine, some have a grey look to their tails with little bits missing. A couple have clamped tails and there is the one that is pale and has only a little tail left. I'm on day 5 of Protozin which is a no dose day then tomorrow is the last day which is another dose. Wondering whether to give a bigger dose. Protozin suposed to treat fungus too. Don't want to harm the healthy fish with a higher dose though.
Feck, this is frustrating.
Ph is sitting at 5.5. I'd drop it lower but I don't think the cory habrosus would do well?


alto said:


> For good news, the _S acrostoma_ group has been outstanding, they went straight onto Metro-food (and they are sourced from a transhipper & farm that would always be my first choice ... if I had my choice in these things  ) These guys are active & not shy at all (after the first couple days) - much more outgoing than _S osphromenoides_ ... which means they don't really sound like (interwebz reports) _acrostoma_
> I subjected my group to close scrutiny - they certainy look nothing like
> Wild Sphaerichthys acrostoma



My wild acrostoma from Colin were incredibly shy and I must admit they didn't really do it for me so I gave them back to Colin. Mine looked like the ones in the video.


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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

> Active _*ingredients*_ in _*Furan*_-_*2*_: 60 mg Nitrofurazone and 25 mg Furazolidone per packet (each packet treats 10 g).


note this is older information so API may've adjusted the amounts
Note that both components are photo-sensitive so keep things dim (not sure if this is on the packet or not)

BUT (& this is why I used to rail at the aquarium product industry)
Furazolidone  *20mg/litre* continuous bath for 5 days
Nitrofurazone (brand name Furanace in older literature)  - external infections only as there appears to be no actual uptake, dips are recommended protocol on this med rather than continuous baths


> 189–756 mg/10 gallons for1 h, repeat daily for 10 days





> 378 mg/10 gallons for 6-12 h, repeat daily for 10 days



There is often synergy of drugs but I couldn't find anything scientific regarding API's mix

(as I recall most fish infections are gram -ve (don't quote me on this as there may be new evidence of more gram +ve infectiions), then there are the ones such as Mycobacterium marinum (fish TB) which don't take up gram stain so not classified by that term)

This article is well worth perusing
Bacterial & Parasitic Diseases of Pet Fish
it's a decent "broad stroke" article that is very generously shared by the author for personal use (2009)

Chris Andrews et al  *The Manual of Fish Health* is slightly dated but the photos & basic information are still valid
( "new" diseases  have since been identified, some old ones have updated information, (acquired)antibiotic resistance is a significant factor ... eg Nitrofurazone resistance has been reported in various bacteria)

I do know people that are great fans of Furan-2
I've just never been convinced myself, I used it back when (most fish display significant stress - which is always a major consideration in fish as it suppresses the immune system) & switched to Kannamcyn & other Seachem products (the medications they market have scientific basis in ornamental fish studies & are often pure compounds without addiitives ... even their "Focus" has proven activity)

Most manufacturers are very conservative in their dosing protocols, so while it's always good to begin with a half dose, observe fish for 30-60min, then add the remaining dose - it's also common for hobbyist medications to be delivered at below "threshold" concentration for active ingredient levels.

I suggest that you remove the choco's to a quarantine tank of manageable volume eg, 10 -20 gal so that you can easily perform daily water changes & afford to medicate daily.
Again despite packet directions, most studies done with medicating fish are based upon daily water change & daily application of active ingredient protocols - most meds degrade under aquarium conditions so this way active ingredient levels are more consistent.
In general the toxicity vs treatment dosage is quite large (often factors of 10x or more - though there are always "sensitive" species)

If possible set up 2 x10 gal tanks,
Day 1, Tank 1 - dose & add fish
Day 2, Tank 2 - dose & transfer fish
Day 3, Tank1 has been emptied & wiped down & refilled with suitable water - dose & transfer fish
etc

Note that I do not find choco's sensitive to water changes, I balance temp etc & they always seem "happier" even when I accidentally do 90% rather than the intended 60 - 70%
(again I began with conservative water changes as is generally recommended with these fish: note that my tap is rainwater soft)

Dim lighting, sponge filter is all you need, if humid, tanks can be uncovered (re labyrinth fish), though I prefer to keep covered re jumping

Temperature - if anything bacterial, stay on the low side (23-25C for S osphromenoides)
If parasitic, elevated temp is generally recommended as higher temp means more active metabolism in fish which can help EXCEPT if loads of gill involvement the lowered oxygen levels in water can be more detrimental than the metabolic boost.

Apologies on the lecture


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

Thanks for all the info alto. I sent Colin a video of the worst fish and he is still pretty sure it is velvet. He highly recommends king british velvet control which I can't buy locally so he has sent me some which should arrive tomorrow and I've ordered more online.  When using google to search for online sellers I only put "velvet control" in the search and it came up with some unexpected results!    
I also did a 300l water change. Colin has said 80% but 300l was as much water that I can prepare at any one time.
I'd love to put the chocos in a separate tank or 2 but I don't have anywhere to put them right now. 

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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> I'm wondering if the protozin isn't working as I half dosed because of soft water and sensitive fish combo. All the other fish seem tp be coping fine, my couple of liquorice males left in the tank have excellent colour and the eel loach are out and about. Many of the chocos look fine, some have a grey look to their tails with little bits missing. A couple have clamped tails and there is the one that is pale and has only a little tail left. I'm on day 5 of Protozin which is a no dose day then tomorrow is the last day which is another dose. Wondering whether to give a bigger dose.



I'd continue with just the Protozin (re my Furan 2 bias) - it seems to be working though not as efficient as expected/hoped.
I'd perform a large water change (not fun on big tanks) & run Carbon for 6-12 hours depending ie monitor fish, if they seem to struggle within a few hours of reduced med dosage, go back to dosing the Protozin.
If you're unable to remove the choco's -
I'd do daily 25% water change, dose Protozin daily
Start with the daily half dose, if no significant improvement after 3 days, then use the full dose daily

Every 5 days, try a non-med day, eg, large water change & carbon

I'd likely leave the pH at 5.5 (I think that's what you reported as tank pH), similarly don't radically change temperature.


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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> I'd love to put the chocos in a separate tank or 2 but I don't have anywhere to put them right now.


yeah that's usually my problem as well

I've also no doubt that choco's are less stressed in their "home" tank with plants etc than when moved to bare treatment tanks (that are recommended in the "ideal" protocols re control of various factors) & with fish, stress levels are such an important factor in disease resistance/recovery
- especially as regards secondary infections:-this is why treatment protocols go on & on with the water changes, it's an effective way to reduce pathogens in the water column.


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2016)

Ok will do the daily wcs but will used the king British v c .The fish seem well settled and are very bold and feeding well.

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## alto (7 Sep 2016)

Lindy said:


> The fish seem well settled and are very bold and feeding well.


that's your best indicator of being on the right path


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## Lindy (12 Sep 2016)

The chocos have come through their velvet treatment with only one loss. I'm amazed the plants have survived what amounted to a weeks black out. Tanks looking good considering it is about to be stripped.  Going to look at it as an opportunity to do it again changing the little things that annoy me.













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## Ryan Thang To (12 Sep 2016)

i really like it. be a shame to take it down.


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## alto (12 Sep 2016)

Fantastic news on the Chocolate Recovery 




Lindy said:


> Going to look at it as an opportunity to do it again changing the little things that annoy me.




Although it's always a bigger project than I think (rampant self-deception ) I like every re-scape better

I just re-did my 90cm tank for the S vaillanti & quite like it again 
-even though the last time I pulled that old heavy "ironwood" out of a scape, I was convinced I'd go over to manzanita (which I bought at far too many $$) & never look back ... it's a bit lighter brown than I'd like (but I disliked the manzanita I had in water as well, lovely pale wood when dry ) so I've pulled the red plants  - I have some other "ironwood" that is an amazing dark chocolate & much nicer twisting shapes. They are different woods despite being sold under the same name.

I'd've likely scavenged less plants & bought more new (lazy  ) but shop had few plants to choose among.


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## Lindy (13 Oct 2016)

We are approaching the end of the second week of building the loft conversion  (and sleeping in a wee caravan!) We get to move back in at the weekend, Yey! Still  2-4 weeks of work to go. The big tank is completely stripped and standing empty. All the fish from it are in my juwel 180. The chocos did not like being in a tank on their own and hid a lot so they went back in with the rest. Unfortunately the inlet strainer on one of the eheims inlets fell off and within minutes 6 chocos had disappeared. They were retrieved from the prefilter within minutes but unfortunately 4 died. The rest are all fine but I'm down to 13 from 20! 
All the tanks are in a bedroom at the moment and will stay there until my wee room is ready for them. The fish seem happy. I have a large number of simplex fry in the juwel 96l and both channoides males are holding. Looking for inspiration to do big tank again but better...



















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## Nelson (13 Oct 2016)

Sorry about the chocos .


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## Ryan Thang To (13 Oct 2016)

sorry about the fish. that sound scary getting stuck in the filter. other than that they are still looking amazing definitely made my mind up to buying them


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## Lindy (31 Oct 2016)

Oops...





Meanwhile the loft conversion rumbles on...

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## Lindy (1 Nov 2016)

Oh and the 'kind of fish room' is coming along nicely. 



My wee girls bed is in there for now as all my fish are in her bedroom!

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## Lindy (18 Mar 2017)

The big tank has been resealed, the overflow box unsealed and sump added. Now getting ready for the Discus to go in. Nothing fancy done and dislike the 'nordic' gravel but wanted to cap the old ada africana ( + pond soil). 

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## Lindy (10 Aug 2017)

As it stands now. The Discus are now 1 yr old. One pair lay eggs every 7 to 10 days so we have to watch fry being eaten regularly 



















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## Lindy (28 Aug 2017)

Threw some plants in..



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## REDSTEVEO (25 Sep 2017)

Hi Lindy, I know this a bit of a thread bump, but I just finished reading your journal 500 litre Discus Tank. Phew, bit of a journey with a lot of ups and downs, but you got there in the end

At one point I was thinking so where's the discus then, almost getting disappointed, then on the last page, there they were!

Well done, how's it going now?

Cheers 

Steve


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## Lindy (25 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> Hi Lindy, I know this a bit of a thread bump, but I just finished reading your journal 500 litre Discus Tank. Phew, bit of a journey with a lot of ups and downs, but you got there in the end
> 
> At one point I was thinking so where's the discus then, almost getting disappointed, then on the last page, there they were!
> 
> ...


Hi Steve, I changed the title of the journal a wee while back as it is now my discus tank lol..
Next weekend the fish will all be moved to another tank. This will allow me to scrub all the algae off the wood, replant and change filter positions and maybe add a power head. Then I plan to get about 50 cardinals. I have discus fry at the moment so I'm hoping some will survive so I can grow them on to join the rest.
I'm going to try running rowaphos in the filter as bba had been a persistent problem. The only tank that doesn't get it is the shrimp tank and I don't use tap water in it.
Tank tonight...i have a substantial  island of floating rotala!














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## REDSTEVEO (25 Sep 2017)

Great to see you made it, you've been a very busy bee!

So have I, just related mine a week ago today, so early days. No fish in it at the moment because I'm still experimenting with the CO2 and other water parameters.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Lindy (25 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> Great to see you made it, you've been a very busy bee!
> 
> So have I, just related mine a week ago today, so early days. No fish in it at the moment because I'm still experimenting with the CO2 and other water parameters.
> 
> ...


I tried co2 but hated the 7up look of the water. Still got bba anyway haha.
Was tempted to move the discus to my 4ft in the fish room and make this a temperate higher flow tank with rainbow shiners and that may still happen if none of the fry survive. I'm aware they can be tricky to raise.  

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## Edvet (26 Sep 2017)

Lol Lindy, when i read 500 liter discus tank i didn't think it was you.(i remember the small tanks stacked in the small room). That's realy Multi Tank Syndrome now
Good read, sorry for the up and downs.


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## Lindy (26 Sep 2017)

Edvet said:


> Lol Lindy, when i read 500 liter discus tank i didn't think it was you.(i remember the small tanks stacked in the small room). That's realy Multi Tank Syndrome now
> Good read, sorry for the up and downs.


Haha, I now have less tanks but keep more water . Down to 4 at the moment but have plans for a small rack ...

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