# ADA Solar RGB vs Kessil A360x vs ONF Flat One+ vs Chihiros Vivid 2 for 300gal planted tank



## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

Hi guys,
as some of you may have seen in another thread, I am currently building a new 1100L (240cm L x 65cm W x 70cm H) planted "nature aquarium" style discus tank. Several tech specs are now already well researched, but now it comes to choosing the right lighting.
After several days of reading reviews and youtube videos, I am down to the following:

1) *ADA Solar RGB*: probably can't go wrong here, but the light only comes in one small size - I'd probably need 3 or 4 for the tank this size and they only come with an on-off switch; with today's LED technology I'd really like at least the sunrise/sunset effect so that lights come up and go out nicely. But this is not a deal breaker... love the ADA Solar RGB and probably can't go wrong with these?

2) *Kessil A360x Tuna Sun*: I like the idea of the shimmering effect... not sure if these will be powerful enough and how many I will need to use... but they do have very nice sunrise/sunset effect (plus many other tweaks). Looking at some videos, these seem a bit weaker for the red spectrum - the red plants just don't stand out as much as with some other lights? I worry a bit about a potential glare from these lights when people are seated... there are no shades unlike ADA.

3) *ONF Flat One+*: Looks like a very nice light... good spectrum, decent pricing, good app. Similar as with Kessil - does not have shades, so I wonder whether the glare might not be a problem when people are seated.

4) *Chihiros Vivid 2*: a nice set of lights at very good price range. However I really dislike the idea of having active fan coolers - adds to the noise in the room, which I really want to avoid. This one, however, does come with shades so it prevents glaring.

I would love some feedback on these. Any experience greatly appreciated. 
Personally, I am kind of between ADA Solar RGB and Kessil A360x but all of these seem to be good options.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Mar 2021)

Can speak about experiences with ADA, Kessil and ONF. But would really need to understand what the desired planting is @aeneas to point out any pros or cons.

Assuming given this is a discus tank and relatively deep compared to most setups, you won’t be replanting it often?

What does the planting plan look like?


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## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Can speak about experiences with ADA, Kessil and ONF. But would really need to understand what the desired planting is @aeneas to point out any pros or cons.
> 
> Assuming given this is a discus tank and relatively deep compared to most setups, you won’t be replanting it often?
> 
> What does the planting plan look like?


Great, I look forward to your thoughts on this.

Regarding the plants, I've not yet chosen the exact list of species yet... My inspiration for the build will be Josh Sim's "Congo" 2017 IAPLC winning aquascape. Of course I'll need to make many adjustments - both in terms of giving discus plenty of space for movement and for the choice of plants that can thrive at 27C (I know discus are ideally at 28C+ but I've had discus for over 30 years and I have generally been able to aclimatize them to 27C without any health problems... they would spawn regularly and be very healthy at that temperature).
So plant choice will come down to: (a) creating a similar highly planted aquascape and (b) compromising on the choice of plants that are OK at higher temperatures. I do intend to have automated fertilisation, CO2 reactor etc. to give plants as supportive environment as possible.
Regarding replanting, you are correct... I would like to set-up an aquascape that will be made for a very very long time... pruning, trimming, evolving, yes... but not completely redoing.
I look forward to your thoughts and feedback


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## Nick potts (8 Mar 2021)

The kessils have the advantage of punching light deeper, so would be good for a deeper tank like yours.

Kessil says the a360x will cover 30in x 30in so you would need 3 minimum (depending on plant choices)

There is also the twinstar 1200SP, 2 of these would cover the entire length of the tank.

I think all the options will work, some will need more planning on plant placement but all will grow plants fine.


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

Vivid II’s are the only ones I’d be considering for your tank @aeneas from that list, or if you really want some shimmer then the AI Primes.


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## Nick potts (8 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> Vivid II’s are the only ones I’d be considering for your tank @aeneas from that list, or if you really want some shimmer then the AI Primes.


I don't think the primes would have the punch for a 70cm deep tank.

What reason for not liking the others?


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## Zeus. (8 Mar 2021)

I have four kessil160 tuna suns, I went for the 160 as they are dimmable down to 10-15% intensity, the 360 are only dimmable to 45% intensity, I had to RMA one of them and they only come with a 12 month warranty which is poor for the price.

The 160 are actively cooled and the fans do get a little noisy if lights on at 100% intensity with my DIY setup




However my setup doesn't fit with what Kessil advise and the units are quieter when free hanging with lots of clearance. Kessil controler is pretty decent bit of kit of controlling intensity/spectrum via 0-10V rail, I use PLC to control mine

I love the shimmer esp at low intensity, I have a moonlight passover which is the only one I am aware off, was quite technically difficult to do, but the low light/shimmer with one kessil on at as time is quite magical and my favourite viewing of tank.

Moving soon and thinking of new tank and Chihiros are top of my list ATM for price, spectrum and controllable, Primes probably second, ADA solar look great but lack of dimming is a no brainer IMO


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

Nick potts said:


> I don't think the primes would have the punch for a 70cm deep tank.



The Primes would have more punch than the Kessils @Nick potts, I’ve tested both, the Primes are very bright.



Nick potts said:


> What reason for not liking the others?



It’s not really a matter of not liking them, they’re all well made lights, but you have to consider them against one another.

I’ve not seen the ADA’s but they use similar if not identical LED’s to the Vivid II’s, but don’t have the same flexibility of spectrum control, intensity adjustment, or in built scheduling, but cost twice as much. They do have passive cooling though if that’s important to @aeneas

The Kessils, though well made, are very noisy, expensive (especially when you add on the additional WiFi controller) and have generally fairly poor colour rendition.

The ONF’s are good light, with decent colour rendition, but again have only limited controls.

The Vivid II’s have almost infinite control flexibility, are one of the brightest on the list, and are comparatively more affordable. The only downsides are the possible lack of local distribution (though I don’t know if that applies to Slovenia), and the active cooling - though the fans are incredibly quiet.


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## Nick potts (8 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> The Primes would have more punch than the Kessils @Nick potts, I’ve tested both, the Primes are very bright.


Sorry I was thinking of a different light, I thought the primes where only 15w (they are 55w)


Wookii said:


> It’s not really a matter of not liking them, they’re all well made lights, but you have to consider them against one another.
> 
> I’ve not seen the ADA’s but they use similar if not identical LED’s to the Vivid II’s, but don’t have the same flexibility of spectrum control, intensity adjustment, or in built scheduling, but cost twice as much. They do have passive cooling though if that’s important to @aeneas
> 
> ...


The vivid does get very good reviews.

The twinstar 1200sp would cover the whole tank, are these not any good?

Sorry for the derail @aeneas


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## Zeus. (8 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> though the fans are incredibly quiet.



Esp when watching UHD action movie with Logitech Z-5500 sound system 😂



Nick potts said:


> twinstar 1200sp would cover the whole tank, are these not any good?



Twinstars are good, but ADA solar in in another league all together, so if Chihiros Vivid as as good as folk claim they are in same league as ADA solar, if choosing between Twinstar and Chihiros Vivid its a one house race IMO


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

Nick potts said:


> Sorry I was thinking of a different light, I thought the primes where only 15w (they are 55w)
> 
> The vivid does get very good reviews.
> 
> ...



Yes, the Twinstars are decent lights, but are lower output, and don’t have the control features and colour rendition of the dedicated RGB based lights.


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

I’ll caveat all this by saying people need to check out the different lights themselves, it’s ultimately a matter of personal choice, but comparing them side by side can be difficult. I’ve tested all the ones listed other than the ADA’s - but I’d never consider paying £800 for a 450mm light anyway - and it was a clear decision for me.

No product is perfect, and the Chihiros products aren’t, but once you see the dedicated RGB based lights, to hard to go back to anything else.


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## Nick potts (8 Mar 2021)

Zeus. said:


> Esp when watching UHD action movie with Logitech Z-5500 sound system 😂
> 
> 
> 
> Twinstars are good, but ADA solar in in another league all together, so if Chihiros Vivid as as good as folk claim they are in same league as ADA solar, if choosing between Twinstar and Chihiros Vivid its a one house race IMO


I agree to an extent, but the twinstar would cover the entire tank with 2 units, compared to 5 for the vivid (granted you wouldn't need 5)



Wookii said:


> Yes, the Twinstars are decent lights, but are lower output, and don’t have the control features and colour rendition of the dedicated RGB based lights.


The twinstar is 110w compared to 130w for the vivid and solar.

It is also an RGB light and has control options.


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

Nick potts said:


> I agree to an extent, but the twinstar would cover the entire tank with 2 units, compared to 5 for the vivid (granted you wouldn't need 5)
> 
> 
> The twinstar is 110w compared to 130w for the vivid and solar.
> ...



The Twinstar 1200SP are 6900 lumens each, so 13,800 lumens for the tank. Vivids are 7,700 lumens each, so say three for the tank, would be 23,100 lumens.

Also the Twinstar don’t use dedicated combination RGB based LED’s like the ADA/Chihiros, they are predominantly white LED’s.


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## Zeus. (8 Mar 2021)

Nick potts said:


> The twinstar is 110w compared to 130w for the vivid and solar.



Thats the input wattage and does not equate to the  Output in PAR or spectrum, even lumens to PAR is a poor comparison, Watts to PAR is a joke IMO esp with LED outputs changing almost on a weekly basis, any LED light is dated the moment you buy it.



Nick potts said:


> RGB light and has control options



Not all RGB are equal its like comparing Cars, they will all get you there


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## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

Great discussion, many thanks @Wookii , @Nick potts  and @Zeus. 
I'm also curious to know what @Geoffrey Rea will comment since he's had experience with some of these lights as well.

In terms of some of the reservations for Kessil - I would agree with the above comments when I looked at the older model... However, the new redesigned A360x Tuna Sun seems to have improved significantly... I cannot comment on noise (and this would be a concern!) but the heat sink is completely different now as well. 
I was not seriously considering Kessils until I saw this video: 
I highly recommend to those interersted. Although in German, even if you don't understand it, it is quite self-explanatory... the guy does a great job comparing all of these lights.
The only thing that comes weak in my opinion is some of the red contrast on the red plants... but overall looks really nice

And here is a guy playing with his settings on A360x - heavily planted tank and quite a nice variation of colours these lights can make:


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2021)

Just to clarify @aeneas the Kessil I tested was the A360X, the most recent model.

I strongly suggest you loan a unit or go and see them before you push on and buy 4/5 of them.


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## jaypeecee (8 Mar 2021)

Hi Folks,

There are other aquarium lighting manufacturers out there. When I replace the light fixture on my main tank - hopefully this year - I'm seriously considering these German suppliers:









						LEDaquaristik
					

LEDaquaristik offers modern & efficient solutions » Choose between different LED fisch tank lights✓ complete lighting systems✓ fair pricing✓




					www.ledaquaristik.de
				












						Mitras LX 7000 Series - GHL (International)
					






					www.aquariumcomputer.com
				




I have no commercial interest in either of these companies.

I am in no way trying to sway your judgement but I like the fact that both these companies provide the 'technical' details that I consider important when evaluating lighting products.

JPC


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## Zeus. (8 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> There are other aquarium lighting manufacturers out there. When I replace the light fixture on my main tank - hopefully this year - I'm seriously considering these German suppliers:
> 
> ...


Interesting



Or just use a TC420 as its the same specs just Black


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## Nick potts (8 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> There are other aquarium lighting manufacturers out there. When I replace the light fixture on my main tank - hopefully this year - I'm seriously considering these German suppliers:
> 
> ...


GHL are very highly regarded on the marine side of the hobby.


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## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> There are other aquarium lighting manufacturers out there. When I replace the light fixture on my main tank - hopefully this year - I'm seriously considering these German suppliers:
> 
> ...


I was already looking at these, yes. 

Daytime Pendix (also German) are another option: pendix LED System – daytime

But they are all just ugly to me. Industrial... Nothing compared to ADA or Kessil; these two are very different in style, but both very very good looking lights.

I'm really saddened to learn that many seem to share the opinion that Kessils are noisy... I was really warming up to these, but I certainly am trying to avoid any additional noise and having for of these with a noisy fan would not be the best choice probably


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Mar 2021)

aeneas said:


> Regarding the plants, I've not yet chosen the exact list of species yet... My inspiration for the build will be Josh Sim's "Congo" 2017 IAPLC winning aquascape.








Hey @aeneas

Sticking with the lighting aspect of this scape... there’s a ton of obstruction if you choose to do something similar. This is really important, your scape ain’t moving. Point source lighting will undoubtedly leave you with difficult to grow spots. It’s only a limitation if you choose to inappropriately plant in those areas. From your shortlist this would only really apply to the Kessils, but if you like shimmer in a scape like this, then point source can make your scape. If you find it distracting then diffused light units are your friend.

Colour rendition: The ADA Solar RGB’s give excellent colour rendition across reds and greens.  The ONF Flat One wins on oranges though and gives a warmer feel. The Kessils are great with the greens but majorly lacking compared to the ADA and ONF on reds. You’ll mainly be thinking about how well these lights present the colour of your plants but don’t forget your fish!

Heat, noise and aesthetics: The ADA and ONF are passively cooled and obviously silent. Kessil’s being fan cooled will make noise (note on this and your other thread you said you were looking for silent).













(Note: A160’s not A360X’s although have borrowed the latter to try it out)

ADA Solar RGB’s run cool. The ONF does get warm if using 50% intensity upwards. Kessils also get warm. This will matter in regards to longevity but it’s not the only factor.

Aesthetics wise on how these units can be suspended, this is entirely subjective and down to what you like the look of.

Growth, glare and intensity control: All three lights can do the job - as they should at these price points. The ADA has no intensity control though, both ONF and Kessil give you this very important feature. The ADA has shades for what it’s worth (they are very bright), the ONF doesn’t but running at lower intensities it isn’t as much of an issue, the Kessils can light up your ceiling with a swimming pool ripple effect if you like feeling that you’re on holiday.

The Chihiros unit I cannot comment on as have no experience of it.



aeneas said:


> I am currently building a new 1100L (240cm L x 65cm W x 70cm H) planted "nature aquarium" style discus tank.



Appreciate you are putting considerable thought into this. It’s a big project that has to account for temperature, appropriate flow for discus, distribution and good lighting to depth to grow plants.

If push came to shove, would be going with two 120cm ONF Flat One units suspended. Brilliant colour rendition, punch PAR to depth, adjustable to find the sweet spot with the warmer running temps, aesthetically minimalist in design, out the way for maintenance, intensity and timer adjustable using the app. Most importantly future proof if you ever change things up, they are potentially powerful enough to grow anything and can be turned down to be suitable to any plant species as well.

Hope this helps @aeneas


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## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

@Geoffrey Rea, this is brilliant! I greatly appreciate the thorough and very insightful feedback! 
ONF Flat One+ does seem to be a great alternative to ADA lights with the added features on top of it.
You also identified my priorities quite accurately: (a) function, (b) aesthetics, (c) noise.
Your feedback gives me some great guidance for further research and reading, but I think we are moving in the right direction


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## PARAGUAY (8 Mar 2021)

Dont know much about high end lighting Tommy at Green aqua just done video on lighting lnteresting though only mainly discussing what Green Aqua sell . Ada comes out on top for lighting and algae🙂


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## aeneas (8 Mar 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> If push came to shove, would be going with two 120cm ONF Flat One units suspended. Brilliant colour rendition, punch PAR to depth, adjustable to find the sweet spot with the warmer running temps, aesthetically minimalist in design, out the way for maintenance, intensity and timer adjustable using the app. Most importantly future proof if you ever change things up, they are potentially powerful enough to grow anything and can be turned down to be suitable to any plant species as well.



Hmm... now looking at the ONF website... it seems their ONF Flat One+ is not yet available in 120cm. The max they have is 90cm. 2x120cm would be ideal. 2x90cm would probably not be enough...
I need to get in touch with them if a 120cm is coming.

...would someone know how to calculate for the tank of this size if 2x90cm model of the ONF Flat One+ could provide sufficient lighting?


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## alto (9 Mar 2021)

I’m assuming you’ve a decent budget for lighting, I’d be inclined to go a similar route to this private client tank set up by Filipe Oliveira and Aquaflora - and use a combination of luminaire and “spot” lights
(My vote goes to ONF + Kessil (Prime has improved greatly in light function (and software actually runs) but it’s far from the “look” and build quality of Kessil - I’ve 3 A160’s and all are virtually silent, if you do receive a noisy Kessil, return immediately)

(I believe Jurijs mit JS mentioned some time ago that Hilfeseite offered custom LED builds)



If you look at the various “big” tanks on FAAO channel, there are a couple contrasts with relatively low lighting vs much higher lighting


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## alto (9 Mar 2021)

aeneas said:


> if 2x90cm model of the ONF Flat One+ could provide sufficient lighting?


Much depends on your aquascape design and plant species 
I think 2 x 90cm ONF would be fine in terms of covering the 240 cm length (while there will be some shade effects at the edges, this is actually an important contribution to the aesthetics of that Josh Sim scape) 
BUT
You will also have shade effects across that 65cm (front to back) depth 

If you want more even lighting across the entire tank, then a series of Prime/Kessil or mix of luminaire/spot etc

Aquaflora 1400 litre Nature Aquarium

1800 L Treescape


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## oreo57 (9 Mar 2021)

3 60's are higher wattage than 2 90's
When spacing don't think even if you want more even coverage.


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## Geoffrey Rea (9 Mar 2021)

aeneas said:


> it seems their ONF Flat One+ is not yet available in 120cm.



It appears this is the case, apologies @aeneas .

Has been a while since looking at ONF Flat One units. Back then the 120cm prototype was being tested and in the pipeline:





A 120cm unit was hung over a tank somewhere. Maybe it never made it all the way into production. My bad.



aeneas said:


> I need to get in touch with them if a 120cm is coming.



Would be interested to hear what they say @aeneas if you get the chance.


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## aeneas (9 Mar 2021)

...my wife dismissed the idea of shimmering... she says it looks cute for a while, but having that always "on" would drive her crazy. She likes the peaceful nature of aquariums and the elegance of discus fish in there. So Kessils and other spot lights are out 

Upon much further reading reviews, viewing youtubes, making inquiries with manufacturers, and your feedback, I am reassessing my "priority list" to:

*(a) ONF Flat One+: *
PROS: nicest design, good programmability, good colour rendering.
CONS: not sure about the sizing... only available in 60cm or 90cm models. ONF said we should use 3-4 units. 3 units would look nice... spread across the tank, it would leave approx 20-30cm space between the units and probably nice light distribution. But the question is, whether 3 units will really be powerful enough??? Can anyone help me calculate that? If not enough, I just don't know how to spread this better... 4 units would be ugly (back-to-back stitching 4x60=240)... unless I do 2x90cm in front and 2x60cm in the rear, maybe slightly elevated so it is not complete "carpet coverage"... not sure how that would look like.
@Geoffrey Rea, ONF responded "_currently we do not have plans for Flat One 120 cm_".

*(b) GHL Mitras LX 7004:*
PROS: good integration with the rest of GHL automation & Profilux system. Seem like very high quality lights. Good programmability.
CONS: very "industrial" design. Not ugly in any way... just industrial. Not sure yet whether I'm warming up to such concept... Anyone here any experience with Mitras?
Here are a couple of images from the GHL facebook page:


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2021)

Pretty sure those GHL units will create shimmer too @aeneas - so that narrows your choice to the ONF’s.


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## aeneas (9 Mar 2021)

@Wookii, it seems Mitras are still much less "lazer-focused" than Kessils... yes, there is a bit of shimmer but nowhere near as intensive as Kessils. This is acceptable 

Further thinking about the two models... can I have your honest opinion whether these light spectrums mean anything? As far as I undestand both of these lights are fully programmable and one can change profile of more red / more green / more blue as much as one wants? However, still... here is what I found as the default spectrum at 100% intensity:

*ONF Flat One+:*



*GHL Mitras LX7004:*




Would this mean that I will not get as much "pop" out of the red colour plants with the Mitras, or would I be able to "tweak" the red spectrum? Not sure how these programmable LED lights work...


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2021)

Yes, reds will be very muted with the Mitras, as will greens - they’ll likely have a considerable yellow cast to the colour rendition. The ONF’s use the combination RGB LED’s with, I believe, a single white LED (from memory), which is why their colour rendition is so good as mentioned by @Geoffrey Rea.

Edit: Scratch that, I’m thinking of the Life Aqua Master Pro RGB LED lights that Aquarium Gardens sell - so I’m not sure of the exact LED’s used by ONF - but looking at the spectrum peaks, likely the combination RGB LED’s.


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## Nick potts (9 Mar 2021)

As you can see from the spectrum chart, the GHL are more geared for the marine/reef side of the hobby, where a blue spectrum is preferred, whereas the onf has spikes in blue, red and green.

They are both programmable though so you can tweak the colour spectrum to suit, this does of course mean that the light will be on less than full power usually.


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## oreo57 (9 Mar 2021)

Ex


Nick potts said:


> As you can see from the spectrum chart, the GHL are more geared for the marine/reef side of the hobby, where a blue spectrum is preferred, whereas the onf has spikes in blue, red and green.
> 
> They are both programmable though so you can tweak the colour spectrum to suit, this does of course mean that the light will be on less than full power usually.


Dimming just the royal blue channel will make it more natural.
You'll lose very little output.
All rgb based lights are a compromise between natural and exaggerated colors with a loss or weakening of intermediate shades.

A visual might help.


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## jaypeecee (10 Mar 2021)

oreo57 said:


> All rgb based lights are a compromise between natural and exaggerated colors with a loss or weakening of intermediate shades.


Hi @oreo57 

But, as you will be very much aware, LED lighting developments are moving at a fast pace. So, we now have RGB+W lighting. And, I'm pleased to know that there is a move to _true_ full-spectrum lighting such as that being developed by Kyocera:






						KYOCERA Develops World's First Full-Spectrum LED Aquarium Lighting; Innovative technology mimics sunlight at specific underwater depths; designed to optimize growth of corals and marine plants | News Releases | KYOCERA
					

Kyocera announced that the company developed the world’s first full-spectrum LED lighting for aquariums.



					global.kyocera.com
				




I don't want to steer this thread off-course. So, I apologize to the OP. I hope this post may serve to inform rather than detract.

JPC


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## Wookii (10 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @oreo57
> 
> But, as you will be very much aware, LED lighting developments are moving at a fast pace. So, we now have RGB+W lighting. And, I'm pleased to know that there is a move to _true_ full-spectrum lighting such as that being developed by Kyocera:
> 
> ...



That looks very interesting John, I’d like to see that in action, particularly is it’s pictured form factor - do you know when these are likely to be available for sale (Google only seems to bring up that press release)?


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## aeneas (10 Mar 2021)

Thank you all for great contributions, wonderful discussion and helping me reach my decision. We will be going with the *GHL* *Mitras*! 

I still need to check whether I'll need to go with 4 modules of the more powerful LX7006 or would 4 modules of LX7004 suffice for suitable illumination.


BTW, if anyone is still interested in direct comparison of the fan noise of the spot lights, AquaOwner has just published a head-to-head comparison (incl. Kessils and AI): 
In German, but self explanatory.


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## Wookii (10 Mar 2021)

^^ Would be good to know what he is saying, but  I don’t speak German, but that doesn’t reflect my own experiences on the fan noise on the A360X vs the AI Prime - the fan noise on the Kessil was very loud with all the LED’s on 100% (including those that can only be turned on using the WiFi dongle).


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## jaypeecee (10 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> That looks very interesting John, I’d like to see that in action, particularly is it’s pictured form factor - do you know when these are likely to be available for sale (Google only seems to bring up that press release)?


Hi Gareth (@Wookii)

Unfortunately, no. And, it all seems to have gone quiet. Even their UK website isn't very helpful. I'd be happy to contact them when I can find time!

JPC


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## Maf 2500 (10 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Gareth (@Wookii)
> 
> Unfortunately, no. And, it all seems to have gone quiet. Even their UK website isn't very helpful. I'd be happy to contact them when I can find time!
> 
> JPC


Interesting technology. From reading around, the release of the Kyocera lights was Japan only, and they are available for 107,000 yen (£700) per unit. Hopefully the tech will prove effective and efficient enough to become mainstream in time. 

Kyocera LED - 海水魚ショップ　ナチュラル


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## oreo57 (11 Mar 2021)

Maf 2500 said:


> Interesting technology. From reading around, the release of the Kyocera lights was Japan only, and they are available for 107,000 yen (£700) per unit. Hopefully the tech will prove effective and efficient enough to become mainstream in time.
> 
> Kyocera LED - 海水魚ショップ　ナチュラル


Worst thing at that price..not even dimmable.


Tech is "mainstream" sort of. See Sorra, Yuji, Waveform lighting and I believe another manufacturer or 2.
Here are the hurdles as I understand them: 
1) Violet emitters underperform ( photons/watt) blue base emitters.
2) Blue phosphors for leds have/had stability issues.
3) Higher cost less demand ( good enough philosophy)
I''ll add high energy darkening of plastics and shorter lifespan.

As to reefers using them.. my lurker assessment is they don't  really want "natural" in the real sense. Just an enhanced"natural".


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## Nick potts (11 Mar 2021)

oreo57 said:


> As to reefers using them.. my lurker assessment is they don't  really want "natural" in the real sense. Just an enhanced"natural".



Defintalety enhanced, I run my reefs in the 20-30k region, I have even had one reef running only blue light, and while I know that reefs get a lot more blue light, it looks nothing like how most run there tanks.


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## aeneas (14 Mar 2021)

Guys, I am continuing the topic in the main journal thread; I will now need some help thinking through the appropriate CO2 system and how to set that up properly. I looked at ELOS and they seem to have really good stuff; also looking into CO2Art products. If you can help me with some further advise and tips regarding CO2 setup that would be greatly appreciated as well.


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## aeneas (17 Mar 2021)

Guys, may I once more revive this thread to ask you for one more help - choosing the right light intensity: I now received quotes and need to pull the trigger on the purchase:

*1) 4x Mitras LX7004:*

spec for each one: 48 LEDs, 87W at high efficiency mode, 131W at high output mode
they don't state lumens, but somewhere I found "up to 150lm/W for their whites"... since colored LEDs likely have less, I can assume 100-120lm/W average? This would lead to ~9000lm-10500lm per light in efficiency mode and ~13000-16000lm per light in high output mode. This seems really quite a lot - does it make sense? ADA Solar RGB is only stating 3000-3500lm for their lights...?
4x units would thus give me 35k-40k lm in efficient mode or 52k-62k in high output mode.

*2) 4x Mitras LX7006:*

spec for each one: 72 LEDs, 130W at high efficiency mode, 195W at high output mode
assuming same calculations as above, this gives me 13k-15k lm in efficiency mode and 20k-24k lm in high power mode
4x units would give me 52k-62k in efficiency mode vs 78k-93k in high power mode.

A tech support from GHL said: "_If you're going to do mostly high-light demanding plants, 4x 7006 fixtures would be ideal since it will put out that extra bit of light necessary for those plants. This option would also give you the flexibility to mount the lights higher off the water if needed. You could do 4x 7004 if the tank will be a mixture of low - high light plants._"

So, assuming my 1100L 240cm long tank: I would personally prefer to go with 4xLX7004 model - cheaper and less obtrusive. But I want to make sure I am not making compromises... and if I push the lights in high output I worry I might have more fan noise and heat generation, shortening lifespan etc. Would you guys consider the light output of 4xLX7004 sufficient or should I go for the bigger and more expensive lights?


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## Wookii (17 Mar 2021)

They all sound way over powered @aeneas - not a bad thing as long as you can turn them down. it will of course depend on how high you suspend them above the tank, and what plants you choose to try and grow, particularly for the carpet if you have one.

Lumens aren't the best of measures for comparison, as some lights can have a higher 'PAR per lumen' than others. However using the lumens as a rough yardstick, if you compare to other lights, for example, the ADA RGB Solar One's are a high light option. Say you went extreme with those and had five above you tank, that'd only be 17,500 lumens for example. Five Vivid 2's would be 27,500 lumens at full power.

Both of those should be more the enough light suspended 30-40cm off the water surface (realistically four of each would probably be sufficient), even with your deep tank. The PAR per lumen on those two examples will likely be higher than the GDL's, but even so, I wouldn't be shooting for much over 30,000 lumens - less than 20,000 lumens could well be enough, particularly at start up. At that level you're also going to have to get your CO2 bang on point if you don't want it to turn into an algae fest.


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## aeneas (17 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> They all sound way over powered @aeneas - not a bad thing as long as you can turn them down. it will of course depend on how high you suspend them above the tank, and what plants you choose to try and grow, particularly for the carpet if you have one.


Perfect, thanks! Then I will order the 4x LX7004 ones (the smaller version); it will look nicer and will also save me some money for other toys


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