# Amano Shrimp Breeding Second Attempt



## Richardblack5

*Amano Shrimp Breeding Second Attempt*

Anybody who didn’t view my last attempt, it’s here....

Breeding Amano / Yamato shrimp | UK Aquatic Plant Society


*This is my new setup:*

All my Amano zoe’s parents are home bred from my first attempt, linked above

I have larger breeding tank where the Amano are now releasing the zoe’s, (this tank was my old growing tank from last attempt)

Today, things are starting to come together and I now have thousands of zoe’s, as shown in my video.








I have just moved them accross to my green soup mix...and I have new larger growing tank with secret recipe mix!, picture here.





 Fingers crossed things go okay and I will post updates as we go along..


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## tim

Round 2 eh Richard  will be following again with interest


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## LondonDragon

Nice start, looking forward to this one, how many did you get maturing last time?


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## basil

Superb, a great video clip too! Really fascinating Thanks for sharing


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## nduli

V. Interested in how it goes.


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## Richardblack5

nduli said:


> V. Interested in how it goes.


 
Thanks.... will keep you up to date..


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## Richardblack5

LondonDragon said:


> Nice start, looking forward to this one, how many did you get maturing last time?


 
I think betwee 24 and 26 last time... but far more zoes this time around... if just 10% survive this time then I should have about 300 Shrimp into adulthood. Fingers crossed


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## thelats1981

Given how much time you've put into this, hope it works out in a big way and you can make some cash out of it. Realise that you've done it out of interest more than money, but I reckon there would be shed loads of buyers on here willing to give money for some UK bred Amano's! love it when somebody goes against the grain - every bit of info about Amanos = "can't be tank bred". fair play mate.


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## Richardblack5

thelats1981 said:


> Given how much time you've put into this, hope it works out in a big way and you can make some cash out of it. Realise that you've done it out of interest more than money, but I reckon there would be shed loads of buyers on here willing to give money for some UK bred Amano's! love it when somebody goes against the grain - every bit of info about Amanos = "can't be tank bred". fair play mate.


 
Hey, thanks for the support, there are no guarantees that the second time around I can reproduce results... but like you suggest... it’s got to be worth another go... I cant let curiosity get the better of me.. if you know what I mean


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## thelats1981

Richardblack5 said:


> there are no guarantees that the second time around I can reproduce results... but like you suggest... it’s got to be worth another go... I cant let curiosity get the better of me.. if you know what I mean


 
this is exactly my point, nobody got nowhere without pioneers! Just think it's brilliant, suspect you had a jar full of beetles when you were a kid! if you do get to the stage where you can sell let me know!


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## Richardblack5

This time around I have decided not to feed them anything extra at all... daft as it may seem... a hunch tells me to go ‘low tech’ and rely just on my green mix..... Other web advice suggests all sorts of supplements should be given... If I am wrong then so be it and will learn from my mistakes... 

In the wild its just them (amano zoe's), marshes, the sea. and then fresh water again....... so why should we over feed them? Any suggestions?... anybody?


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## thelats1981

haha! Your target audience of amano shrimp breeders must be limited! could be a tough crowd. I've absolutely no experience breeding shrimp of any kind, I'm a bit of a nature geek though...

i think in the wild, even seemingly fresh / clean water is absolutely full of potential food for the larvae. I would have thought this is impossible to replicate in the confines of a glass box without adding to it. remember reading on here about adding CO2 being unnatural - response was 'its a glass box in your lounge' - class! Don't suppose you have the room or inclination to run 2 tanks side by side, feeding one and not the other?


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## Richardblack5

thelats1981 said:


> haha! Your target audience of amano shrimp breeders must be limited! could be a tough crowd. I've absolutely no experience breeding shrimp of any kind, I'm a bit of a nature geek though...
> 
> i think in the wild, even seemingly fresh / clean water is absolutely full of potential food for the larvae. I would have thought this is impossible to replicate in the confines of a glass box without adding to it. remember reading on here about adding CO2 being unnatural - response was 'its a glass box in your lounge' - class! Don't suppose you have the room or inclination to run 2 tanks side by side, feeding one and not the other?


 
Yeah, I did two tanks last time... I have replicated the most successful of the two (with some tweaks) so I know I am throwing caution to the wind with one tank.... but I have other tanks including a 400lt plated and stocked 100plus fish.. so time to run two set ups is not a luxury.. let’s hope this produced results..

After all..I was told this could not be done... I just want to know how lucky I was.. or can any setup have some success... what do you think?.


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## thelats1981

luxury?! you make this sound like a hobby!

Everything thing you read about amano's suggests this can't be done, but I guess that's because they are written for the average bloke who can get cherry's breeding, or more probably from a commercial point of view. If someone's out to make cash a tank full of cherries is far more viable! I certainly can't tell you whether this will work, just hope it will! 

In terms of suppliments and additional feeding, I reckon its the equivalent of multivitamins - totally pointless if you eat shed loads of fruit and veg, but for some people they are great. 

To be fair you've got further than most, so reckon you are starting to get a feel for how it works, how they should look, behave etc. Really think you have got to trust your instincts, if it doesn't work it doesn't work. There are so many variables that are beyond control I think you should just keep enjoying the ride, I'll certainly be keeping an eye on it!

good luck

rob


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## Richardblack5

Video showing everything looks okay, the green mix is very thick this time around so its hard to see inside the tank


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## Lindy

Wow, thats pretty impressive. I remember thinking what a waste it was when my Amanos got berried as I knew it wouldn't come to anything. Well done!


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## Richardblack5

Zoes now over 1 week old swimming in green phyto mix


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## charlie

Brilliant stuff. Great to see what is possible with time and dedication. Fingers crossed all goes well.


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## LondonDragon

Looking great, if only it was that simple  looking forward to seeing how you get one with this one


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## Ryel

Dear Richard could you please share your PH, GH, Kh & temperature if you have any idea in your freshwater tank in which the females were berried. I have been trying to breed amanos for the past 16 months but it seems that the female does not carry the eggs for more than 48 hrs. The eggs are just dropped as it is ie: no hatched zoes.

Thank You


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## Richardblack5

Perhaps the eggs are not fertilised... is it possible you have no male amano?   ill get back to you re parameters


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## Ryel

In fact there were a couple of males in the group of 24. When they started dropping eggs i had the same feeling but having a closer inspection and further research over the net i would confidently say males were certainly present. In fact when the females release it's hormones the males would go wild and mount the female.


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## Andy Thurston

Laughing in the face of common belief
If you prove its not a fluke and can perfect it perhaps you could call it the richard shrimp instead


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## Gordonmull

Excellent news Richard. I've been breeding these since Feb, have now raised three broods and am the proud owner of about 100 Amano. It looks like the methods we are using are very similar and are based on the same websites. If you pm me your email addess I've got an ecological study that might be of interest to you too. Most of it is in Japanese but the diagrams and graphs are in English. There's a couple of interesting snippets in those. If there's any shrimp nuts on here that speak Japanese that would be willing to translate, it would be appreciated. I've not found anyone elsewhere yet that does but I'm sure that there is a lot of interesting information in that document that will relate to Amano care and breeding in captivity. (I know, I know, new guy already asking a favour lol)

Edit - since I can't post links to my Flickr account to let you see photos, I'll post some tomorrow once I've been registered for the required day.


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## Ryel

@gordonmull: I am very keen on knowing how did you breed them as you must have seen from my previous post what kind of issue i am facing. Could you please send the info that you are referring to ryl_dsz@yahoo.co.in

Thank You


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## Gordonmull

Ryel, I have had mine drop too. She just discarded her fourth brood eggs after 30 days. I'm putting it down to stress as she was always getting moved to isolation in a hatch tank and Amano are social species. I'm varying my method now to ensure the female lives in the hatch tank with 5  males and they are only removed after hatch takes place.

Quite why she dropped so soon for you is a mystery to me, but this is still all a mystery to everyone as far as I can tell. I'm really glad to read of Richard's success and of your desire to be successful. I sincerely believe that if people push together and collaborate then breeding of Amano and other lower order shrimp can be cracked. Other than Richard the only other successes I've read about are on the sites that he posted on his first attempt and someone recently on a facebook group that I'm on. I really believe that a concerted effort between a number of aquarists could not only lick lower order breeding but make it accessible to all.

I'll drop that report over to you as soon as I'm finished writing. For your info my water parameters in the main tank, prior to berrying and transfer to hatch tank are 25C, pH 7, KH 2, GH 4, photoperiod of artificial light 14 hours. Tank is in south facing room and gets some morning sunlight. Months berried Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun. Less eggs May/Jun but I think that might be a nutritional issue. Reasonably high turnover with a Fluval U2 in a 60l.

I *think* the study that I'm sending was conducted in the Hiroshima region.


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> Excellent news Richard. I've been breeding these since Feb, have now raised three broods and am the proud owner of about 100 Amano. It looks like the methods we are using are very similar and are based on the same websites. If you pm me your email addess I've got an ecological study that might be of interest to you too. Most of it is in Japanese but the diagrams and graphs are in English. There's a couple of interesting snippets in those. If there's any shrimp nuts on here that speak Japanese that would be willing to translate, it would be appreciated. I've not found anyone elsewhere yet that does but I'm sure that there is a lot of interesting information in that document that will relate to Amano care and breeding in captivity. (I know, I know, new guy already asking a favour lol).


 
Hey, thanks for the correspondence... it looks like you are doing really well.. I lost all my zoes this time around but have used the time to try different techniques. I'm interested to see what your salt water parameters are? I am currently culturing a new
Tetraselmis phyto mix as my unsuccessful attempts were with Nannochloropsis phyto.

I am also trialling different salinities in the hope to narrow down my current losses.

I have had about 5 or 6 different females release larvae over the past months so have been lucky to keep a constant supply.... I must add though that I am waiting now for my next batch so I can get stuck in again.

I PM you my email


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## Ryel

@gordonmull: So i should assume the GH should not be a problem since you too are breeding them in Gh- 4 . What do you feed the broodstock and larve.

@Richardblack5: In what salinity have you tried rasing the larve ??? . Could you please pass on you email address.


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## Richardblack5

Ryel said:


> @Richardblack5: In what salinity have you tried rasing the larve ??? . Could you please pass on you email address.


Richard.black5@ntlworld.com

Have tried 35ppt then 17ppt then 25ppt now at 30ppt (but waiting for zoes)


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## Ryel

@Richardblack5: With which salinity did u see good results.


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## Richardblack5

Ryel said:


> @Richardblack5: With which salinity did u see good results.


 
This is the link from my successful attempt.. I can recall salinity exactly that's one of the reasons for my experiments now.... I think it was 35ppt

Breeding Amano / Yamato shrimp | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Gordonmull

First off here are the pics as promised.
Various Amano breeding pics - a set on Flickr
20 day old larvae - a set on Flickr

Richard, my salt water parameters were SG1.024-1.026 at the calibrated temperature of 20C (rubbish hydrometer). I think that corresponds to about 34-35ppt sea water. Temperature is 21-23C (room temp). I bought a mix of phytoplankton, although I have it on good authority that competition probably means I have only got one by now. What that is I don't know.

I had thought to try a very low salinity of about 17ppt to see if that helped the post-larvae survival rate but I have today stumbled across, on the Wayback Machine, the elusive Mike Nolan breeding report that the Caridina Japonica Online method was based on. He recommends lowering salinity at the first sign of post-larvae to 17ppm to assist in their survival. It is definitely worth a read.

Breeding Yamato (a.k.a. Amano) shrimp

Also, have either of you seen the Hamano and Hayashi (1984) report on raising zoea in the laboratory? They are the same pair responsible for the ecological study. I just got hold of that today as well, in text format unfortunately, so all the tables are wonky but a bit of perseverance would make them readable.

Ryel, GH 4 should be fine. I feed the adults on a varied diet of frozen meaty foods, sinking wafers, flake and obviously they feed themselves on fish poo and biofilm, as for the larvae, see above. There are a couple of things I can think of.

During the breeding season there is an increase in temperature, rainfall (and consequently turbidity, flow rate and dissolved oxygen, possibly with a decrease in pH/GH/KH) and increased photoperiod (and therefore food abundance). You could try replicating any of these changes and see if it helps. It could be that you're borderline on one of these parameters and after she's mated she's decided not to waste her energy on the eggs. Not certain, but it might be worth a try.

Also I transfer my female immediately after she is berried to a breeding tank with is the same parameters as the main tank except being kept at room temperature.


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> First off here are the pics as promised.
> Various Amano breeding pics - a set on Flickr
> 20 day old larvae - a set on Flickr
> 
> Richard, my salt water parameters were SG1.024-1.026 at the calibrated temperature of 20C (rubbish hydrometer). I think that corresponds to about 34-35ppt sea water. Temperature is 21-23C (room temp). I bought a mix of phytoplankton, although I have it on good authority that competition probably means I have only got one by now. What that is I don't know.
> 
> I had thought to try a very low salinity of about 17ppt to see if that helped the post-larvae survival rate but I have today stumbled across, on the Wayback Machine, the elusive Mike Nolan breeding report that the Caridina Japonica Online method was based on. He recommends lowering salinity at the first sign of post-larvae to 17ppm to assist in their survival. It is definitely worth a read.
> 
> Breeding Yamato (a.k.a. Amano) shrimp
> 
> Also, have either of you seen the Hamano and Hayashi (1984) report on raising zoea in the laboratory? They are the same pair responsible for the ecological study. I just got hold of that today as well, in text format unfortunately, so all the tables are wonky but a bit of perseverance would make them readable.
> 
> Ryel, GH 4 should be fine. I feed the adults on a varied diet of frozen meaty foods, sinking wafers, flake and obviously they feed themselves on fish poo and biofilm, as for the larvae, see above. There are a couple of things I can think of.
> 
> During the breeding season there is an increase in temperature, rainfall (and consequently turbidity, flow rate and dissolved oxygen, possibly with a decrease in pH/GH/KH) and increased photoperiod (and therefore food abundance). You could try replicating any of these changes and see if it helps. It could be that you're borderline on one of these parameters and after she's mated she's decided not to waste her energy on the eggs. Not certain, but it might be worth a try.
> 
> Also I transfer my female immediately after she is berried to a breeding tank with is the same parameters as the main tank except being kept at room temperature.


 
Nice reply..... and great pics too..

I have seen the Mike Noren on 'way back machin'e and have it linked from my first published attempt..

Looks like 30 - 35ppt salt is the better mix to go for? what do you think?


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## Gordonmull

Given the lack of success reported by some on lower salinities, I'm tempted to stick with full strength seawater. I have seen two reports of successful breeding at 17ppt, though. One is the lab report I mentioned previously and the other the Shrimp Now one. I may give it shot one day, my phytoplankton can take it, so why not?

One of my missing puzzle-pieces is salinity in the area around South Japan during the period that the larvae are in there. I'm fully of the belief that they are washed out into marine conditions.


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> Given the lack of success reported by some on lower salinities, I'm tempted to stick with full strength seawater. I have seen two reports of successful breeding at 17ppt, though. One is the lab report I mentioned previously and the other the Shrimp Now one. I may give it shot one day, my phytoplankton can take it, so why not?
> 
> One of my missing puzzle-pieces is salinity in the area around South Japan during the period that the larvae are in there. I'm fully of the belief that they are washed out into marine conditions.


 
I have tried 17ppt (based on same published reports)... tried 5 or 6 times and totally lost everything within about 8 days

I have not gone into the details as much as you yet, but based my judgment more on instinct / trial and error..

For me right now, I think the balance between salinity and phytoplankton type is key.... my first success cant just be fluke.. just need to work it all out.

The sheets you emailed look very interesting and I am looking forward to getting stuck into these.


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## Gordonmull

I'll give 17ppm a miss then, I think. Thanks for the heads up.

I'm sort of the opinion that nature knows best. Give the organism as close as you can get to the environment it evolved in and you have mostly all the correct parameters for it to be successful. I know it doesn't always work exactly like that but it's a good baseline, I feel.

No such thing as a fluke, there's always cause and effect. The hard part is finding out what they are, which seems to be our unfortunate self appointed job


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> since Feb, have now raised three broods


 
What parameters did you use? you have had more success than me as I only raised 20+ amano


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## Ryel

@Gordonmull: how is the breeding going on with the amano shrimps ???


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## Gordonmull

Richard, the main tank was as above. The shrimp are now in the process of being moved out of a community tank and into a dedicated breeding area. These will be at room temp, pH7, KH1-2, GH4, photoperiod 14 hours. The zoea tanks were kept at room temp with 34-35ppt synthetic salt water (brand was Tropic Marin) with 24 hour lighting. Lots of phyto was added to the tank with a few drops per litre of fertiliser. Basically followed the Caridina Japonica Online method.

Ryel, I'm on standby for another berried female. My last attempt didn't come to anything. She berried with very, and I mean VERY few eggs. I think that was due to underfeeding when she was carrying her last brood, wasn't getting enough food to develop many eggs. I also have a suspicion that might have been why she dropped them that time. She's dropped them or hatched them this time but I've not seen any zoea in the tank, so I've installed a filter and I'm waiting her out.

I do now have a saddled female from first brood and a new saddled female from LFS also in the picture. They'll each be kept in their own tank with 5 males. Hedging my bets lol.

I'll drop by when anything exciting happens.


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> Lots of phyto was added


 
Thanks for your detailed reply......don't suppose you know what type of Phyto?


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## Richardblack5

Gordonmull said:


> The zoea tanks were kept at room temp with 34-35ppt synthetic salt water.


 

I am only a couple days away from my next batch of zoes... based on your success I have changed my salinity from 29 to 34 ppt


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## Gordonmull

The phyto I used was this product: Phytoplankton 5 Species

Good luck with the next batch.


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## Lee Sweeting

Looks good! Following with interest!!


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## Gordonmull

Got back off hols today to find one of my females from the first brood that i raised has berried. Hopefully in this heat it will be a short development period.


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## Greenfinger2

Hi, What a fantastic thread  Any updates


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

Yeah. +1. 

Pics please too if poss.


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## chka

how do you do such green soup?  some yeast? 24/7 light on?



Richardblack5 said:


> I have just moved them accross to my green soup mix...and I have new larger growing tank with secret recipe mix!, picture here.


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## lionberries

Hi, I'm new to everything aquatic and will explain more in newcomer section...if there is one, I haven't looked yet .
Anyway I was just having a quick flick through and this post caught my eye as amarnos and the lack of successful breeding or conclusive information on the subject is becoming an irrational itch I cannot scratch, in fact make that a full body rash. 
Until a few weeks ago I didn't know anything about aquatics other than goldfish go to the toilet a lot, so sorry if this is a waste of time but I was just wandering if anyone had seen this guy on YouTube and if it is likely to be genuine? 

The odd bits I understand about salinity and feeding seem to tie in?


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