# 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic heavy



## justjason88 (6 Dec 2011)

Hi all, i'm totally new to the aquarium scene and stumbled across the site after joining LFKC. Thought i'd make a journal in the hope of gaining much needed help and advice from the experts and hopefully see the tank grow into a well established habitat for my fish and plants.

I went with the Juwel rio 125 with the standard pump, heater and lighting system. The lights come on at 4pm and go off at midnight, the temperature is set to 26C and the pH is 8 but i'm looking to reduce this to 7 (unfortunately the addition of 2 pieces of bogwood haven't affected it so i need to look into other means of reducing it). The GH is 10 and the kH is 7.

Plants i have at the moment from left to right are:
Cabomba Carolina around the left side
Rotala Indica is just in front of these
Echinodorus "red flamed" in the foreground
Java fern on the bogwood in the middle
Vallisneria Asiatica around the right side
Rotala Wallichii next to the vallis
2 unknown mosses just infront of the vallis and wallichii














The plants have been in for around 4 weeks and i'm hoping to start off with 6 zebra danios maybe this weekend. Unfortunately though i've noticed some of the plants are dying. Some of the vallisneria leaves are brown and yellow and turning see through. Every morning i have to take out 1 or 2 leaves which have broken away and are lying on the top of the water. The indica is growing but the red leaves already present seem to be dying and nothing is growing in their place. The wallichii has only been in the tank a week and the pink tops look like they are dying and have all shrivelled up or dropped off.





Once i've got the plants back on track i'm hoping to move some around as the 2 mosses and wallichii are there to get established and not meant to be in their current position permanently.

Thanks for looking, any advice/tips will be much appreciated 

Jason


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## RudeDogg1 (6 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

A good start. What ferts if any are you using? And are you using pressurised co2 or one of the liquid versions?

Rudi


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## justjason88 (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Haven't used any fertilisers at all, after posting under the plant section for some advice i've just bought a Hydor Koralia circulation pump to reduce dead flow spots and also tropica plant nutrition plus in the hope to revive some plants. I'm not planning on using any CO2 devices.

Jason


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## RudeDogg1 (6 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

That will be why they are dying then. You will need to use a liquid version of co2 then. To get the plants to grow and survive u need a balance of co2 and ferts. Have you just used a sand substrate or is it just used to cap a plant soil? If not you will need to use root tabs to. When you use the tpn triple the stated dose as it's not very strong. When you have used up the tpn take a look at the ones from tropical plant food company who is a sponsor on here. Works out alot cheaper specially if u buy the dry complete one which u have to add water to yourself.


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## Viv (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Using a carbon source really will make a whole load of difference! I found this stuff: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ind...word=aqua carbon&inc_subcat=0&sort=20a&page=3 to be the cheapest, especially if you can buy larger quantities. It lasts ages (1000ml lasts 3-4 months at 5ml a day on my rio180) and the plants love it. Can't stress enough what a diference it makes. I had some dwarf chain swords in an old tank that grew flat as pancakes until I added aqua carbon, and my vallis didn't grow at all without it. Same with my Echinodorus.

Viv


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## Alastair (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

There's also a post in the for sale section by piece of fish who is selling 1 litre bottles of liquid carbon for 12 pound posted. Bloody bargain


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## justjason88 (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Will look into some liquid co2 solutions. Viv did you mean this product? http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ae-desi ... -2988.html Your link shows results to a search for "aqua carbon." RD i've used a small gravel substrate, i also put a larger gravel substrate containing nutrients for plant growth underneath the plants but a lot of it has been mixed up with the top substrate whilst i was putting the plants in (you can see this underneath the echinodorus). Putting extra co2 into the water isn't going to harm the fish when i eventually buy some as long as i stick to the dosing instructions? Alastair i'll check that out.

Thanks again guys

Jason


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## Alastair (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Just thought you'll not be able to see the sale post as you have less than 25 posts oops. And no mate, the liquid co2 is fine on fish


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## hinch (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

valis is like a weed it should grow with nothing added but if you add stuff it goes nuts


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## RudeDogg1 (6 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

Co2 is fine with fish aslong as you don't overdose


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## nayr88 (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Welcome to the forum buddy
Great start  I can't say much other than what has been said. There's some great articles about on here and if things seem strange or confusing just ask mate, everyone loves to share there knowledge here.

When you can get yourself some liquid carbon and as said dose 2 or 3 times stated dose with the tpn plus, remeber though consistancy is key with planted tanks in mys opinion, and if dozing tpn at triple dose seems expensive....it's because it is  haha it's great stuff but there are some alternative out there that are so so cheap, but for now this is good and easy so no worries there.

Enjoy your planted tank


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## Viv (6 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Yes, sorry that's the stuff I meant   

I've had a fair bit of trouble with a few plants that are meant to be real easy for beginners. As already said I had no luck with vallis until I added carbon. It survived and made new plants like crazy but they had no height. They looked just like the chain swords - little flat rosettes. In fact, I forgot I had vallis until it started growing up after the carbon was added. Same with amazon fern and swords. I've got the fern in my planted tank as well as in two other tanks and it survives but definitely isn't flourishing - not in any of them  :?

Viv


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## justjason88 (10 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Did a 50% water change and cleared up as much dead leaves and floating debris as i could. Also installed my new Hydor Koralia 900L/H circ pump to help remove dead spots in the tank and counter act the plants from dying. This is directed from the rear left towards the front middle and the thermometer was moved underneath it. I've noticed that most plants are now slightly swaying which is a good sign. I also ordered some tropica plant nutrition plus which i am dosing 1ml a day until i can see signs of improvement and then i'll do 5ml once a week (i may start to triple the dose as advised by some of you guys). I've ordered some aqua carbon which will hopefully arrive Monday, dosing that once a week will also hopefully boost the plant growth. I think some plants may be too far gone to revive, i had to take out all the rotala indica because all the leaves were dead. I cut off the tops though which had grown and replanted these in the hope they will survive.









I've left the wallichii alone to see if it improves at all, otherwise i'll remove it and hopefully do the same with the indica and try to save some cuttings. I moved the dark green moss in preperation of placing another log of wood. I've ordered some bogwood with a moss grown on it to hopefully fill the right side and also bring the pH down. I also ordered 3 moss balls which i think look fantastic and also another background plant to go next to the valis.





I also trimmed a lot of the valis and most of the tops were yellow/brown and transparent in the hope they will regrow stronger, especially with the addition of the liquid ferts. I noticed bubbles escaping from some of the cut leaves which i found quite interesting.





I think it's time to start with some fish now so i'm going to pick up 6 zebra danios tomorrow!

Thanks for looking

Jason


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## justjason88 (11 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Just bought my first fish and put 6 Zebra Danios in the tank, they seem to be settling in very nicely and are all darting around exploring the new environment. I fed them a few flakes but they weren't overly interested in it and now they are all searching the gravel and plants presumably for food because they keep nipping floating debris and then leaving it. Some are even pairing up and following each other around the tank which is a nice sign.

I did notice though a very very small creature float past and land on a plant. I thought it was just debris at first but could make out some eyes and a few legs. It was completely white, about 1cm long if that, with a long body and few legs underneath it. I thought it might have been some sort of shrimp but i doubt it and i'm not sure if it was picked up from the fish shop with the danios or if it came with a previous plant. Since getting my plants a few weeks back i've been taking out a snail every other day, they are abolsutely tiny, but today i noticed there was about 5 sitting on the centre bogwood. I'm hoping they're not going to get out of control as i hoped i'd keep the tank snail free.

Will probably pick up about 4 or so more zebra danios in the next couple of weeks before christmas and then leave them to settle for a month or so. I'm also split for choice as to the next fish to get. I'd love to have harlequins, lemon tetras and neon tetras but they should be kept in a largeish school so i may have to pick just 1 and have about 8 or so of them. I'll probably ditch the idea of getting a RTBS too as i don't want to risk having to return it or re house it if it is too aggresive. Instead i'll probably get 6 corys, 3 julii and 3 adolfos


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## justjason88 (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Quick update, whilst ordering the aqua carbon from AE i got sucked in browsing and bought a small piece of bogwood with (i think!) christmas moss covering it. I've put this just in front of the valis and will hopefully buy something small to go next to it. I also bought an Aponogeton Capuroni bulb, weren't too sure how to plant it but stuck the whole bulb into the gravel with a tiny bit sticking out the top. This is between the valis and the java. I also bought 3 moss balls under the pretence they were tiny (about 6cm wide), they were actually bludy huge (more like 12-14cm wide)! After putting them in the tank and leaving them in a short while they just didn't suit it at all, i tore off two small pieces off 1 of them and left them in the tank to hopefully develop into a couple of small balls, then binned the rest.

I've been dosing Aqua carbon about 5ml a day and Tropica plant nutrition plus about 3ml a day, both in the morning before i go to work. So far i haven't seen a massive difference, although i have noticed a few valis have developed secondary plants (if that's the right way to describe it) and the indica cuttings are so far holding up. The wallichii i also ditched like the indica. I felt it was too far gone to be saved unfortunately, although i did take about 5 and replant them next to the indica in the hope they survive.

Will try and get some pics but the danios are just too fast for my iphone and i can't get a decent pic. At first they all darted around on their own but they are starting to shoal a lot more. For some reason they have a fascination with the front corner of the left side of the tank, where they like to congregate, although there is no cover here whatsoever so it can't be because they are scared/shy. I was watching them last night and the light turned off, they all immediately grouped up and started swimming round in a shoal which was really cool to watch.


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## justjason88 (21 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Quick vid of the danios hugging the front glass and especially congregating in the top left corner, dunno if this is strange behaviour or normal? sometimes they swim and explore the tank but often they just stick to this front glass. Video taken from the side. It's on photobucket not youtube so just click the picture and it'll load a seperate website.



I've been dosing aqua carbon 5ml a day at the mo (bottle says 5ml per 250l but i've upped the dose for this week alone and will now do 2.5ml a day). Also i've been dosing tropica plant nutrition plus 3ml a day, again instructions says 10ml a week or a small dose daily for better plant growth. I'll now dose 1ml a day. Unfortunately i haven't seen much difference and i've been dosing both for about a week now. The valis was doing absolutely fine with a few leaves dying but since the introduction of either two solutions or the new powerhead, a lot more leaves have been dying which is worrying me alot. The cabomba is holding up although a lot of leaves are slowly dying off and getting sucked into the powerhead or filter (i have seen new shoots poking through the gravel though). I got rid of the rotala indica, the 4 cuttings i salvaged are holding up but the wallichii have all gone. Echinodorus is the most healthy, the leaves are really starting to grow quite big and i'm only having to cut away 1 or 2 leaves which turn yellow and brown every week or so. The java fern may need looking at as it's developing black spots on most leaves and some are starting to turn brown and yellow.

Pic of the new piece of bogwood with (i think) christmas moss on it. You can see some of the valis leaves turning brown, yellow and transparent. Also you can make out 2 indica cuttings next to the bogwood. I have also placed an Aponogeton Capuroni bulb where the wallichii was, so far it hasn't started sprouting but new roots are starting to appear.





Random snails that must have hitched a ride with a previous plant. Not sure what they are or if they are beneficial or not? So far i haven't noticed any half bitten leaves so i'm hoping i'm ok. If they become a problem i'll have to hunt them down and take them out.





The danios, too fast for my stupid iphone camera but it shows them congregrating in this damn corner as usual.





The tank so far




Thanks for looking

Jason


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## hinch (21 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

danios are top column fish so they'll always swim near the surface more than at the bottom they like to be in groups of 6 or more because they shoal but they should be fine.

I'm assuming you're doing regular water changes ?


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## justjason88 (22 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

yep about 40% a week


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## skeletonw00t (22 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

Looks good!


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## justjason88 (22 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

Popped into Living waters this morning and spent about an hour talking to the owner. It looks like Valis doesn't do too well with aqua carbon and will eventually die altogether which is why i've been having problems with it over the last week. I ended up buying 3x golden honey gourami's instead of dwarves as i was disuaded because they tend to be disease ridden; besides the honeys looked amazing! I have 1 male and 2 females, the male has a lovely red tail and the females have a slight black stripe running the length of their bodies. I also bought a few plants to replace the valis when it eventually dies off and also a plant to create some cover for the gourami's. 

I ended up buying Echinodorus Xinguensis, Cardamine Lyrata and Nymphaea 'Thai sp'. 

I've removed the valis which were dying off and kept about 6-7 healthy ones. I've now moved these to the left side of the filter. In front of these i've placed the lyrata and put the xinguensis in front of the filter on the right side. I've then put the nymphaea just in front of the xinguensis. The leaves have created a bit of cover and shade at the top for the gorami's and they were interacting with the danios earlier but now they have hidden underneath and behind the middle log with the java. I'm hoping they will come out a little later once they have got used to the tank. Once the nymphaea is established i may move it towards the back of the tank and put the other plants in front of it.

The Nymphaea





A Gourami hiding under one of the pads





Another hiding in the little cave underneath the middle bogwood





Gourami's tearing my cabomba apart already!? Although they haven't destroyed it completely i watched them tear some of the leaves off and eat some









Tank so far













Thanks for looking, will update soon with how the new plants hold up

Jason


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## Viv (22 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

I'm surprised to hear that about the vallis. Aqua carbon is all mine have had so far and its growing great. I have to cut them back every week to stop it blocking out all the light and pull out the unwanted runners 'cos it sends out so many. TBH when you said it was dying after the addition of the carbon I just thought it might be due to the change. I'll be very interested to see what happens with the ones you have left!

Viv


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## darren636 (26 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

friends tank uses liquid carbon- all vallis melted away months ago. my cube is ultra low tech- vallis all fine.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.



U still need ferts and co2 with soil


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## justjason88 (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> I hate to sound like a stuck record, to all else, but why not consider soil substrate? Then there would be no need to dose with ferts or CO2. The link below will take you to a tutorial to show you how; it's also posted in the tutorial section of the forum.



I may look into swapping the substrate at some point but because i've just started i'll leave it as it is at the mo. I have noticed though that most people use ADA aqua soil amazonia in their tanks and this doesn't require a top substrate.


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## Tim Harrison (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> Justjason88 wrote:
> I may look into swapping the substrate at some point but because i've just started i'll leave it as it is at the mo. I have noticed though that most people use ADA aqua soil amazonia in their tanks and this doesn't require a top substrate.



No worries, that's the great thing about forums like this you get a wealth of experience and techniques to choose from. If you do decide to go down the soil route, I'll be happy to help. Good luck with your new planted tank, I hope it's a great success.




> RudeDogg1 wrote:
> U still need ferts and co2 with soil



Soil substrate can be used with or without CO2 and ferts; the choice is entirely up to the individual to decide on what level of energy input and output they are happiest with.

For instance, I have maintained vigorous plant growth in the same setup for many years using soil alone.

If you're not sure how this works visit my tutorial "Introduction to Underwater Gardening with Soil Substrate", or follow the link below to the same.

Nonetheless, I am very interesting in your perspective and I was wondering what leads you to believe that you still *need *to use CO2 and ferts with soil?


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe


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## Tim Harrison (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe



Thanks for that, I found your answer very insightful. 

Research shows that given relative concentrations of nutrients in the water column, most plants preferentially uptake most of their nutrients through their roots, in particular iron and other trace elements, and phosphorus which is rapidly absorbed; many aquatic plants can not absorb phosphorus through their leaves as readily as they can through their roots. 

Which makes sense when it is considered that most aquatic plants are natives of relatively nutrient poor, or oligotrophic, waters where the sediment contains higher concentrations of nutrients. 

Many plants will however generally uptake the following preferentially from the water column, ammonium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, chloride, and sulfates.

Further, substrates with high CEC also draw nutrients from the water column where they become available to plant roots. Its perhaps one of the reasons why eutrophic dosing works so well with clay based substrates like cat litter, for instance, particularly with the high flow rates popularly used with such methods.

The above also explains why soil substrates are capable of promoting vigorous plant growth over a period of several years, particularly those containing a lot of clay and/or peat.


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## Callum (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> > Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This was very helpful, good job Troi


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> > Because not all plants take nutrients from the soil quite alot take them from the water I believe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just because you clearly know more than everyone else you don't have to be so patronising ;o) lol. Non the less I found your info very interesting


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## darren636 (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

how do you keep the soil sweet long term? I have used soil in the past, aquatic in nature.


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## Tim Harrison (27 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> how do you keep the soil sweet long term? I have used soil in the past, aquatic in nature.



First of all choose the right soil, then use it to a depth of around 2 - 4 cm so that it doesn't become too anaerobic - aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature and macrophytes have evolved to grow in them. Planting heavily will also help since macrophytes release O2 and organic compounds in to the sediment through their roots which greatly increases microbial and bacterial activity and therefore soil health. Adding a small amount of grit to the soil also helps by improving structure. 

Cap the soil with about the same thickness of course sand or fine gravel (average grain size about 3mm) to allow water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange. This ensures that the top layer of the soil or oxidised microzone remains aerobic and a hive of bacterial activity neutralising toxic substances and unlocking nutrients. 

Also contrary to popular belief soil substrate is very stable once it has adjusted chemically and biologically to being submerged which can take a couple of months; regardless I often add plants and fish almost immediately without any problems. The CO2 released by the soil during this time often drives very vigorous plant growth.


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## RudeDogg1 (27 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

Do the soils harbour leach eggs or do they come from bogwood? I've spotted a few in my tank about 1cm in length lately


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## Tim Harrison (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> Do the soils harbour leach eggs or do they come from bogwood? I've spotted a few in my tank about 1cm in length lately



No soil does not harbour leech eggs. That is unless the soil was sourced from a tropical rainforest (habitat of terrestrial leech species) or dug up from a leech infested pond or lake etc since all leech species found in the UK are aquatic.

However, leeches can be introduced in to the aquarium in any number of other ways usually via plants, live food or even on fish, and I suppose bog wood if it’s freshly out of someone else’s leech infested aquarium, or on wood randomly pulled out of leech infested ponds and lakes etc and then placed in the aquarium untreated. 

I personally use a soil mix of sterilised loam and peat, and many others use soil from their gardens so there is no conceivable way that leech eggs will be introduced in to an aquarium by using soil.

If you still have leeches I would seriously recommend dosing your tank to get rid of them, after all most are obligate ectoparasites and will harm your fish.


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

I've no idea where they came from then the wood was soaked and sterilised, all plants pp dipped and fish went through qt. The soil I used was the tropica stuff


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## darren636 (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

are you sure it is a leech? a triop is quite common.


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## RudeDogg1 (28 Dec 2011)

*First ever tank*

Looks and behaves like a tiny leech. It's about 1cm and a reddish brown colour any I've seen I've got rid


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## Tim Harrison (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> are you sure it is a leech?



That was my next question. 

But that said, leeches deposit their eggs inside cocoons where they develop before hatching usually some 2 to 4 weeks later. Some species attach their cocoons to plant leaves, or substrates such as rocks, and others bury them in sediment. 

Leech cocoons are highly resistant to denaturation or degradation; so much so that they show up in Jurassic and Triassic deposits. They have also been known to survive ingestion by wildfowl, and adults and cocooned eggs can endure extended periods of unfavorable environmental conditions using aestivation. So it is possible that they may have been unwittingly introduced somehow in this state, but not necessarily via Tropica substrate.


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## darren636 (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*

they suck.


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## Callum (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> they suck.


Pun intentional?


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## darren636 (28 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



			
				Callum said:
			
		

> darren636 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 no, just a mechanism for reaching the desired 25 post milestone.


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## Tim Harrison (30 Dec 2011)

*Re: First ever tank*



> (leeches) they suck.



Very droll…  but not all leeches suck…some swallow their prey whole


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## justjason88 (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

A month has passed so i thought i'd make another update before i get some more fish next week some time.

I bought a CO2 drop checker because i was concerned at the lack of growth in some plants. I've had it for about 2 weeks now and the colour hasn't changed at all and it is still blue. I even upped the dosage of the Aqua Carbon from 5ml to 10ml a day (bottle says recommended 5ml per 250L and i have a 125L tank) so i'm wondering whether Aqua Carbon is even remotely effective or i've installed it incorrectly.

The 3 lily pads i had eventually died, the stalks from the bulb to the leaf became frayed and transparent in small parts and eventually tore. I'm not sure if this was because of the transition from LW to my tank, the different water conditions or if it was their time to shed. The half grown leaf did grow to the top of the tank and stayed for about 4-5 days until it also eventually did the same. So i'm now left with a brown bulb and a few tiny leaves which aren't doing anything.

I got rid of all the valis because even the strong ones started to go brown and transparent. Both my bulbs still haven't done anything, i'm not sure if they are just duff bulbs or it's not their time to grow yet. One of them has become loose twice from the substrate, i presume because it's taking in water and then becomes loose from the substrate. I noticed it had grown larger and lots of roots, so maybe it will sprout at some point. I had to get rid of 80% of the cabomba too because the gourami's love picking it apart. The echinodorus is doing great as usual and also both mosses are growing steadily.

I found this fella whilst doing a WC so took a pic and tried to identify him on google but currently had no luck, any ideas anyone?





Unfortunately after trying to pick him back up from the sink to put him back in the tank he fell down the plug (a lesson can be learned there!).

And finally a FTS a month on from the last update. Sorry for the glare i should have closed the living room curtains.




I've noticed some strange behaviour in the zebras lately. They used to hug the front wall of the tank and swim left to right but now they favour the plant next to the filter. They tend to huddle together and i watched 3 stay together above the outflow pipe in the corner and occasionaly they would get restless and chase each other and then settle down and huddle again. Yesterday i could only find 4 of them and was looking for the other 2 for about 5-10 minutes. I eventually found them both huddled on top of each other behind the log next to the lily bulb and found another resting on the gravel underneath the plant. This morning they are chasing each other around the tank more vigorously and excitable than usual. Maybe they will spawn? They've mixed in with the gourami's really wel though and all of them swim together when they hear the lid open for feeding time (although the zebras just take as much as they can and the gouramis probably only get half a flake each).

Questions:
Have i set the CO2 drop checker up correctly? Surely by now it should have turned slightly green, especially as i'm now dosing aqua caron 4x the recommended strength
I'm still getting green thread algae on plants and also brown algaeo patches on the glass. I read both are due to a CO2 deficiency (brown could be down to NTS) but surely it should be sorted by now because of the aqua carbon dosing?
Any ideas why i lost the lilys?

Thanks a lot guys, another update soon once i've visited LW again and got my new fish. I think i'm gonna go with 6x Harlequins next

Jason


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## Callum (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Did you fill the drop checker up with 4dkh solution or just normal tap water?


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## J Butler (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Hi Jason, 

The tank looks like it's coming along nicely, despite your issues with a few of the plants. 

It's hard to tell for sure, but that shell shape and snail size seem to ring a few bells. Did he bare any resemblance to the snail in the following topic?

Unidentified snail

I found a few hitch hikers in my tank also...   

As for the drop checker question, liquid carbon products will have no effect on the colour of the liquid, it will only work if your bubbling CO2 gas in. When in our tanks, the carbon dioxide partially acidifies to form carbonic acid, the same happens in the drop checker as gas from the tank dissolves in the drop checker fluid. It just picks up on the change in acidity. There's a little more to it than that which is why we don't use tank water in the drop checker, but that's the basics.

The liquid carbon (LC) is pretty much the same to the plant as the CO2 (it has to convert it first) but I don't think theres a way to measure the levels it once in the tank.There's also a good chance that the relatively large doses of LC might be the reason for your Vallisneria melting though, I can't remember the reason for it, but I'm sure i've read it. before.

Hope that helps


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## J Butler (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Also, I would leave you Lilly in and see how it goes, as you mentioned earlier it's more than likely the fact it's having to adapt to a new environment. I believe it's always a result of differing CO2 levels more than anything else, but I wouldn't add anymore LC than you currently are as it is toxic at higher concentrations, if you can reduce your lighting slightly in any way, that might help.


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## Ady34 (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*



			
				justjason88 said:
			
		

> I even upped the dosage of the Aqua Carbon from 5ml to 10ml a day (bottle says recommended 5ml per 250L and i have a 125L tank)



Hi Jason,
i would be cautious about dosing this amount of liquid carbon over the long term as your adding 4x the recommended dosage and it can be toxic.
Also just to second what Joe said, liquid carbon wont have any effect on the colour rendition of your drop checker, only c02 gas injection will do this. Vallis doesnt like liquid carbon, and ive also heard ferns and mosses can react badly too it too..... although you are having success with these in your set up.
Stick with it though as some plants can take a remarkably long time to adapt, im only just seeing good cryptocoryne balansae growth after 6 months of it being in my tank!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## justjason88 (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Thanks for the advice all, i am using the 4dkh solution callum (i bought it with the drop checker off aquaessentials) but i guess that doesn't matter for the mo (i wish i knew that before purchasing them, but i'll most probably move onto pressurised co2 canisters at some point down the line anyway). 

Joe i did search in google earlier for tropical snails and found a pic similar to yours called pond snail and noticed someone replied to your thread saying your 1 looked like a pond snail. Mine was most probably the same thing so i don't feel as bad anymore for "losing" him down the drain  With regards to the valis i was told last month by the owner of my LFS that LC does cause valis to melt so i only kept a few in there to see if they were hardy but i guess not.

Ady i also thought the same thing once i read that the drop checker won't work with LC. In fact i may go back to 5ml a day to be on the safe side seeing as i haven't really noticed a difference between the doses; afterall i don't want to kill off my fish.

Thanks again guys, you;ve been a great help. Now to find out where my missing danio is! Both last night and tonight when i fed the tank i could only count 5 of them and i can't find the 6th for the life of me. It's definitely not floating around dead somewhere and i can't see it hiding anywhere!


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## darren636 (28 Jan 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

vallis and liquid carbon do not usually go well together


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## justjason88 (4 Feb 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Couple of vids and some pics

I eventually found my missing danio, you can see from the below pic where they are starting to huddle. I can only imagine that whilst huddling in this tiny corner 1 has jumped through the tiny hole next to the filter and ended up in here... because this is where i found him.






Video of danios in their new hiding place




Male Gourami






My new Harlequins






Came home the other morning after finishing a night shift to find my male gourami sitting underneath the nymphaea bulb. I thought he was dead at first but he's absolutely fine. Maybe this is his new sleeping spot?










And finally a vid of my current and new fish. New additions are 3x Asian Rummy Noses (1 male and 2 female) and 6x Harlequins.


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## justjason88 (16 Feb 2012)

*Re: First ever tank*

Unfortunately i had to get rid of my cardimine lyrata, it was growing so well i wanted to let it establish so i didn't cut away old leaves and roots and during a water change it became entangled around the filter outlet pipe and the only way to get it free was to rip it all apart 

I moved the nymphae bulb to the back where the cardi was. It looks like it's sent out new roots and new leaves are sprouting which is brilliant news. To replace its spot i got Nymphoides aquatica "banana plant" which looks fantastic!










Next the the nymphae i replaced the cardi with Aponogeton loniplumulosus. I had some trouble securing it to the gravel as i lost a couple of bulbs i bought of aqua essentials, not sure if i put them too far into the gravel or they were just duff but they completely rotted. I've put the bulb a little into the gravel but kept most of it out as i don't want to lose this 1 too. So far it's holding, a few more days and hopefully the roots will secure it.






On the left hand side i had the echinodorus which i split from the main plant and put it in the foreground. I had to get rid of the cabomba at the back because the gouramis ripped it apart so i've moved it to the back making it more densley planted and now both echinodorus' are next to each other. This created space in the front so i moved the Staurogyne repens (i bought it last year on a wym and a prayer off ebay) to replace its spot and also put another new bulb i bought from LW next to it. This is Barclaya longifolia "red"






Also noticed this fella last night, did some research on google and i can only presume it is a malaysian trumpet snail (unless anyone else is wiser?)






Will probably buy a cardi again at some point, i've been looking into external filters so i might hack out the juwel internal filter down the line freeing up a large space at the back right.

Thanks for looking

Jason


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## ste_v5 (16 Feb 2012)

*Re: Rio 125 Low tech, plant heavy, first tank (lots pics)*

very nice mate


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## justjason88 (5 Mar 2012)

*Re: Rio 125 Low tech, plant heavy, first tank (lots pics)*

I can still only count 1 MTS so the population is either being controlled (somehow) or they are all hiding and will swarm the tank en mass at some point!

The loniplumulosus is doing fine, i think it is now properly secured to the substrate and it has even sent two stems to the top of the tank which have both flowered. The nymphae has also sent a new lily pad to the top and a 2nd is on the way. 


















The Christmas moss for some reason started to become loose and on closer inspection all the roots had rotted. This is very strange because it was growing so well. I had to also pull up all the echinodorus xinguensis because a lot of the leaves were brown/transparent and rotting. I've cut all these off and also trimmed the roots in hope it grows better. Not sure if the banana plant is going to make it, lots of black spots have appeared on the bottom of it and both leaves and stems look like they are also turning brown/transparent. 






The barclaya longifolia is holding out ok, it did become loose from the substrate twice though but it has grown lots of leaves (although very small) so i'm hoping they will grow a lot larger soon so i can put it in place of the juwel filter which i am going to get rid of soon as i bought a jbl cristalprofi 1500 last week. I'll wait a few weeks so the bacteria can grow in the filter then i'll see if i can sell the juwel filter on ebay. This'll make some space for the barclaya and also give me my recommended 10x l/h flow output. Next step after that will be to create a FE CO2 set up (just missing the bubble counter and FE atm).










FTS





Thanks for looking

Jason


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## faizal (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Rio 125 Low tech, plant heavy, first tank (lots pics)*

Hi jason , I really enjoyed reading your journal   . It was really nice reading how the tank developed bit by bit over the last couple of months. A real good job indeed.   

I am truly looking forward to seeing how beautifully this tank develops. 

Very inspiring for a first attempt & congratulations.


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## justjason88 (7 Mar 2012)

*Re: Rio 125 Low tech, plant heavy, first tank (lots pics)*

Thank you very much faizal, your comments are much appreciated and i hope people will learn from my mistakes. I'm hoping i can rearrange the plants a bit better once they grow more after i add a CO2 set up, at the moment i'm still unhappy with how it's arranged


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## justjason88 (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Rio 125 Low tech, plant heavy, first tank (lots pics)*

Did a huge tidy up the other day because i wasn't happy with a few things which had been niggling at me a long time. I also found that removing the juwel filter was very difficult with water in the tank. I took out the fish and put them in a bucket with a tea towel over the top, i then put all the plants in another bucket and then siphoned off practically all the water. I had previously bought a stanley saw blade and spent 20 minutes trying to get the damn thing out. I then cut off all the silicone left on the glass and removed a lot of the gravel as it had bits of black silicone and plastic in it. I had leftover under gravel and top gravel from when i first set the tank up so i used both to re do the tank bottom.

I then trimmed all the plant roots to premote new and stronger growth, removed any old leaves, replanted them all and rearranged the layout slightly, binned 2 plants which were unsalvageable, put the hardscape in and then refilled it and put the fish back. Before putting the plants back in i put 12 TPN+ root tabs underneath the top gravel.

This is the new layout now (ignore the HC pot, it's a left over from my cube). The Barclaya is by the intake pipe in the right corner, i'm hoping this will start to grow a lot quicker when i have the CO2 set up. Everything was generally tidied and made neater and i much prefer it!




Some fish pics before the tidy









My new assasins









I now have all the bits for the CO2. I went with the FE set up after a hell of a lot of reading! The costing was as follows:
2KG FE - eBay £25
TMC V2 Regulator and Solenoid - £68
Electronic timer - £11
Glass bubble counter - £8
Glass non return valve - £6
Glass diffuser - £13
Glass drop checker - £15
CO2 tubing - £2

Total - £123

Considering the FE should last 7 - 9 months and comparing it to the pricing of Aqua Carbon or even branded CO2 sets, this is by far the most cost effective way. I followed the tutorial on UKAPS to the tee but was still a little apprehensive when firing it in the garden. Thankfully it was ok and i didn't lose an arm.









Will do another update when i've got round to setting up the CO2.

Thanks for looking

Jason


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## malawistu (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

almost starting over again what other plants you thinking of using now


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## justjason88 (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

The only things i changed were getting rid of the melting xinguensis and the unknown moss which was in front of the bogwood, everything else has stayed but been trimmed a little. Once the barclaya has grown with the loniplumolosus the back will be filled and i can think of a foreground plant to go in front of it. I don't want to put anything there just yet because i don't want to relocate the barclaya, i'd rather it settle in this position now and start to grow properly. It looks a lot more spacious because i removed the juwel filter, this whole space should be covered once the barclaya gets going properly.


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## pariahrob (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Lovely looking and it's nice to see your progression. I'm just starting my first planted tank, so this is a useful journal.

Looking forward to reading/seeing more.

RR


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## justjason88 (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

My monthly update

The CO2 is all set up, i haven't had any major issues with it so far. I haven't fiddled with the flow rate since setting it up as i'm scared it'll adversely affect the fish. The DC is showing a deep green so it's not as light as my cube but i'm in no rush to fiddle with it just yet. I'll give it a little while so the fish get used to it (they seem unbothered so far) and then up it a little. I also haven't noticed any increased growth in the plants with the addition of the CO2. It's been set up for a month now so it may be down to the fact there isn't enough CO2 being injected to create a difference. The bubble counter keeps losing waster though, i've read this is probably from condensation or evaporation but my cube doesn't have this problem. I may fiddle around with this line at some point.










Picked up some corys from LW earlier in the month, 2x adolfo and 2x sterbai, a little expensive but definitely worth the buy. They have settled in nicely and are always grazing on the substrate; they really are beautful fish! Unfortunately the danios have cottoned on to the fact i drop 2 or 3 sinking discs for them but because they are too big for them to eat they let the corys brake them up and then swoop in. When the corys and gouramis are left alone to eat the discs they look very peaceful and go well together.














About a week ago i was browsing another LFS and noticed they had some ottos in stock, (£6 each, buy 5 get 1 free). As it was pay day it was rude not to invest, especially as my cube needs a cleaning crew anyway. I decided to put 4 into the main tank and 2 into the cube. I had already done extensive research on these lovely fish and was fully aware of how fragile they are due to the way they're caught in the wild. The 2 in the cube were doing fine, until after 2 days i seemed to lose 1. After searching the immediate area for about 30 mins i pulled the sofa away to find it had leapt out the tank and fallen underneath a cupboard. The remaining otto was very docile, it laid on the substrate for hours and only moved occasionally. I believed it was stressed so i moved it to the main tank. After a few days i found a dead otto on the substrate which i believe was this stressed otto. I was really gutted for both of them. The ottos in the main tank seem to be doing fine though, all have large stomachs from all the algae grazing they have been doing so i am hopeful for these guys.





My stocking is now:
3x golden honey gouramis (1m, 2f)
2x Asian rummy nose (1m, 1f)
6x harlequins
6x zebra danios
4x corys
4x ottos

AQAdvisor still says im at 80% stocking but i'm in no rush to add more fish yet. Later down the line i may boost the number of corys as i just love them, but then again it would be nice to have a larger shoal of harlequins (the danios are too aggressive for my liking). On a side note, the male asian rummynose's colour has come out more. It did fade for a while but his face and tail have become a deeper red.










Lots of new growth






I found a baby MTS at last!






Tank so far, still waiting for the barclaya longifolia to take hold. Unfortunately it's still very fragile and isn't growing a huge deal. I've had to leave the outflow on the filter at 50%, any stronger and the barclaya uproots. I have also re introduced my korallia powerhead to reduce the dead spots underneath the spray bar. I was getting staghorn on the echinodorus leaves and hair thread algae on the staurogyne repens.






Thanks a lot for looking 

Jason


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## Ady34 (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Hi Jason,
i love cory's too, and itll be great for them and you if you up their numbers. Theyre great fish and full of character! Sorry to hear about the ottos, they seem most vulnerable in the first few weeks after purchase, but if you get them through this they seem to go the distance.
Id also up your c02, i know its a little daunting and your looking out for the fish, but if you have it you may as well use it too its full potential. Just increase slowly daily to get a lime green dc at some point, then tweak it from there to get lime green for lights on...keep watching the fish for signs of distress, but youll probably be surprised how much more you can dose and it will then make a difference to plant growth. You may also need to then go on 2 hrs pre lights and off 2hrs before lights off for example to get the uptake/gas off/fish comfortability rate just right for your tank, but only trial and error will get it spot on. 
I also used to lose water from the bubble counter, evaporation my explanation too, but i dont use one anymore as a bubble count to me seems so open to variation between brands that your better off watching the fish and drop checker.... the fish especially will let you know! Little changes every day is best.   
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## justjason88 (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Cheers for the advice Ady


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## justjason88 (26 May 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Monthly update, ottos and corys are doing great and had no issues with them so far. I am however trying to battle a case of either BBA or Staghorn, not too sure which 1. Either way though both have the same symptoms and both are due to poor water circulation or CO2. I don't think the problem is circulation as all the plants are gently swaying and the surface movement is good. I may need to up the CO2 but i think it's generally high anyway so i don't want to do that just yet.

For the past 4 or so weeks during every WC i've tried to pull off as much of the algae as possible without damaging the leaves of the plants. I then do a 40-50% WC and clean the filter media (all sponges apart from 1 and the ceramic basket) and empty the water in the filter and replace it. The filter holds 12L of water and the water is a light brown with quite a bit of detrius and mulm so it's at least doing a good job of filtering the muck out the tank. For one week i tried blitzing the tank with AquaCarbon and dosed 10ml per day to rid it. It didn't affect the fish thankfully (i was worried that over dosing 4x the recomended dose coupled with the addition of CO2 would harm the live stock). Unfortunately this didn't do anything and is quite expensive considering a 250ml bottle is around 10 quid; it also seemed to me the algae grew more with the AquaCarbon. I've now stopped dosing this and i've tried treating it with a solution instead. After yesterdays WC i used JBL's algol, i'll have to wait and see if this works. If not i have bought a JBL PhosEx media pad which ill try out http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -3099.html































The second thing i'm quite unhappy about is one of my female gouramis is displaying very weird behaviour. I noticed it has been very lethargic overy the past 3-4 days, often staying in a fixed place for hours of a time under leaves or sitting on the substrate or even by the water surface. I noticed sometimes it would float diagonally and sometimes swim sideways. I found it pointing downwards and between a log, i thought it had died at first but when i touched it it slowly moved away and to the top of the tank. I saw the male gourami chase it away but it wasnt very aggressive, they moved slowly and it only chased it out of a plant. The other female then did the same, so may be it was being bullied and it was stressed? I decided to move it to the cube and add some stress coat but it displayed the same behaviour. I also added a flake of food which it didn't touch and was so lethargic it let me touch it in the tank without moving and the fish never do that. I went to work and when i came back in the morning it was still alive. As i write this now at 7pm though i've just found it in between the rotala head down towards the substrate, i believe it has sadly died. The gourami's are one of my favourites so it's not nice at all, such a shame! I did some research, if it wasn't stressed then it may have had swim bladder disease? http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseases/ ... r_disease/


















Thanks for looking

Jason


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## malawistu (26 May 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

my femail was a little bit funny for weeks but picked up and is now perfectly fine think there one of them pain in the ass fish


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## justjason88 (29 May 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

the other 1 is doing absolutely fine though, very weird! and still can't rid this stupid staghorn


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## Ady34 (29 May 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Hi Jason,
i had an outbreak of staghorn, and to eliminate it i did every 2 or 3 day water changes alongside flourish excel at 3x recommended dosage. Kept the filter clean and within a week it had all turned pink and died. I then continued with the excel dosing at recommended dose and reduced water changes down to every 3 or 4 day and then back to weekly.
I also increased my c02 a smidging. I cant remember 100% but think i may have reduced my photoperiod from 9 to 8hrs also.
I still get minor recurrences, but i think this is down to flow/distribution when my plant mass increases.
Hope you get it sorted,
cheerio,
Ady.


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## justjason88 (31 May 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Thanks Ady, i've noticed a steady decrease and observed some of it go red/pink the other day so hopefully fingers crossed it's going!


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## justjason88 (28 Aug 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Haven't posted in a while as i've been very busy with the olympics (working in excess of 60-80 hours in a week with only 1 or 2 days off). I decided a while ago now that i want to rescape the whole tank. Reason being it's been running now nearly a year and i feel i've learnt a great deal and i'm now ready to try my hand at a proper scape with more plants. I will be keeping the same fish but will probably increase the harlequins to around 12 from 6. 

Scaping plan
My idea was to have a large stone which stood out on the left side of the tank, the face needed to be sloping and it had to be wider and the bottom than the top. I went to woodcote nurseries in Wallington and spent 20 minutes digging around the baskets (staff thought i was mad). Picked out a few large rocks of cambrian green, i believe it may be granite but not certain. The piece i really wanted had to be cut down as it was too big. My dad gave me a hand and managed to hack away at it, thankfully it only took 3 hits and it cut right in the place i wanted. I'm now left with a great piece of rock with 4 small pieces to put at the base of it. Surrounded by this would be valis asiatica and in front will be Cryptocoryne wendtii 'green'. I will carpet with eleocharis sp mini and have the barclaya longifolia bulb in the middle and rear of tank. On the right i've bought a lovely piece of redmoor root wood from TGM, this will be surrounded by small rocks and have mini christmas moss tied to the branches. I've written down 5 large plants to go at the back so i just need to choose 1 now. Lastly staurogyne repens will be planted at the base of the wood.

Tank set up
Tank
Juwel Rio 125 without internal filter

Substrate
Tropica Plant Growth Substrate 2.5 Litre
ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia 9 Litres

Hardscape
Cambrian Green rock
Redmoor root wood
ADA Yamaya Stone

Lighting
Juwel High Lite Light Unit 80cm T5 2x28 Watt

Filtration
JBL Cristalprofi e1500

Heating
None

CO2
FE in-line

Fertilisation
Not decided but most probably TPN+ daily, with a weekly water change

Plants
Eleocharis sp. 'mini' - http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plantd ... x?pid=132B
Vallisneria sp. 'asiatica' - http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plantd ... x?pid=056A
Vesicularia dubyana 'christmas' - http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plantd ... x?pid=003A
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'green' - http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plantd ... px?pid=109
Staurogyne repens - http://www.tropica.com/en/plants/plantd ... x?pid=049G
Barclaya Longifolia
Nymphae Lotus
1 more undecided

I had to go to IKEA and buy a suitable box to keep the fish whilst i cleaned the tank. I managed to get an 80 litre perspex box which so far has held out fine and the fish seem undisturbed. Will probably plant within the next week work permitting.





















Tank filled and the barclaya longifolia is in place along with the nymphae lotus, rear left, behind the stone and the driftwood with xmas moss attached to it. The stones on the barclaya and driftwood are temporary to hold both down as they establish.











2 days after planting and i'm pleased with my planting plan. The crypts will hopefully lower their leaves to drape over the substrate instead of sticking upright. The echinodorus red diamond is in the middle and i received a free plant due to the delay, i think this is also an echinodorus red diamond but im not too sure, this is to the far right of the tank. I had trouble keeping both in the substrate, the last 2 days i came home from work both were floating so ive used stones and rocks to place either side of them and gently against the leaves to stop them from floating until the roots take hold. At the moment i've got a small filter which is only 450L p/h as the big 1200l p/h is in the ikea box with the fish  I reckon another week or two and i can put the fish into the tank again after the substrate has leaked its amonia. The parvula sp mini was a little fiddley to plant as like any carpeting plant it wanted to float. I've managed to plant them but a lot of the leaves are covered by substrate to keep them down, im hoping it wont affect the growth too much.

















Thanks for looking

Jason


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## nry (28 Aug 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

I'd have been more inclined to have all the rocks together, to make them all look joined up beneath the substrate, though as the hair grass spreads it should fill all the gaps in


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## justjason88 (18 Sep 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

All fish are now in apart from the cories so they dont dig up and uproot the eleocharis. Also added 6 ottos which are doing great and much better than my last batch, they are even schoaling with the harlequins from left to right which is quite funny to watch. I now have:

6 harlequins (will be boosted to 12 over the following months)
6 Ottos
2 Golden Honey Gourami's
2 Asian Rummynose rasboras
5 Cories (3 adolfoi and 2 sterbai)

I'm having problems with the eleocharis at the moment, most of it is doing ok and slowly spreading but ive noticed at least 3 or 4 patches turning brown and dying off. I've had to remove 2 as they were all brown. I don't know why this is happening as everything is doing fine, i can only guess it's because i didn't hook up the CO2 until yesterday so they've gone 2 weeks without it.





The barclaya longifolia lost the leaves and roots (must have died being moved twice in the last few months, i've read they don't like being moved). I've left the bulb on the substrate hoping it'll re root. Christmas moss is doing fantastic!


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## justjason88 (9 Oct 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

New iphone so new camera at last! Here are some pics from about 3 weeks ago:



























During a water change something very weird happened. I usually siphon out 4-5 buckets of water which is roughly 35-45% of the water. After i siphoned out the 5th bucket 3 out of the 6 harlequins immediately and simultaneously turned upside down and laid on the substrate. I've never seen this happen before and it's the weirdest thing to watch. The other 3 stayed schoaling while these 3 laid on the bottom and were moving slightly. After about 1-2 minutes they 1 by 1 gradually turned the right way up. 2 re joined the schoal and 1 stayed by itself for a while. Since then i haven't seen any other weird behaviour. Any ideas what the hell this is?

























Thanks for looking

Jason


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## Lindy (9 Oct 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

I really like that big stone you have in the corner but I think it would have looked nicer stood further out into the tank with lots of large plants behind and around the sides with smaller plants in front. It looks a bit crammed in there but this is only my opinion...Plants look nice and healthy.

Cheers, l


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## justjason88 (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

im waiting for the crypt to lower its leaves as it is advertised to lay its leaves on the substrate, also the valis should hopefully fill out in time creating the effect you described  eleocharis still not doing well though


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## Lindy (11 Oct 2012)

*Re: 125L First tank, low turned high tech, plant and pic hea*

Sorry, my point was that there doesn't look to be much space behind the rock so not much room for plants to bush out, there won't be much depth to the plants behind, damn, maybe I'm just no good at explaining my random thoughts! lol, sure it will look great.


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## LondonDragon (1 Apr 2013)

You still got this one? Update?


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