# Help CO2 not working



## lstratton (10 Feb 2008)

I set up my pressurised CO2 system on wednesday and on friday there were no bubbles coming out, so I looked at the regulator and both the gauges are on 0, what does this mean?  Did my tank empty after 2 days?  What do I do?


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## Tom (10 Feb 2008)

Could there have been a leak anywhere? Have you got a solenoid that could be cutting the CO2 flow off?(but then it still shouldnt show 0 pressure I suppose)

Tom


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## Peter6bee (10 Feb 2008)

what size bottle and system do you have?
It could be that you have a faulty bottle which has been leaking or that you haven't tightened the regulator onto it enough again causing leaking.


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## Arana (10 Feb 2008)

I suspect you have a leak, even a 500g bottle should last longer than that  

Check all your connections for leaks, if not you may have a faulty regulator.


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## Arana (10 Feb 2008)

123..Altogether Now...


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## lstratton (10 Feb 2008)

thankyou, I'll try all the above, hopefully it is just a leak, would be a pain to have a faulty regulator.
Thankyou


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## lstratton (10 Feb 2008)

ok, have checked for leaks and can't find any.  The bottle definately feels a lot lighter.
It is a 2kg bottle and I have a dual gauged reg with a solenoid.  I got it off ebay.
So I undid it all, redid it and still nothing.  Do you think that I could have been sold a bottle that wasn't fully full or do you think that the regulator is dodgy?


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## jolt100 (10 Feb 2008)

If you have a tap on the bottle you could try taking the regulator off and cracking the tap to see if there is any gas left?


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## bugs (10 Feb 2008)

lstratton said:
			
		

> ok, have checked for leaks and can't find any.  The bottle definately feels a lot lighter.
> It is a 2kg bottle and I have a dual gauged reg with a solenoid.  I got it off ebay.
> So I undid it all, redid it and still nothing.  Do you think that I could have been sold a bottle that wasn't fully full or do you think that the regulator is dodgy?


How are you checking for leaks? Soapy water or propriety leak detecting fluid? It's the only way (and how are you checking for leaks when the bottle is already empty? If you've replaced the bottle then you could have cured the source of the original leak (i.e. the join between the bottle and control)).

I had a leak on the connection to one of the guage dials - had to screw it so tight the dial was facing down   .


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## lstratton (11 Feb 2008)

I was looking for leaks  in soapy water.  The only bubbles that came out were when the face of one of the dials filled with water but surely there shouldn't be CO2 there, so that can't be the leak can it?
I have ordered a new bottle just to check that, always good to have a spare anyway, so until then i'll have to wait.
Thankyou for the advice, I'll keep you posted.


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## TDI-line (11 Feb 2008)

Just to go over tracing for leaks with soapy water, get a cup, a small paint brush, a very small amount of washing up liquid, add a small amount of water (about an 1/8 of a cup), then mix this together until a froth has emerged. Then apply this froth all over the regulator, tube joints, gauges, bubble counter, etc.

ANY bubbles from the mixture will indicate a leak.

Then wipe off the mixture as can be corrosive to metal if left to dry.

I had 2 leaks on my dennerle regulator, i wondered why i was doing 2KG each month. Put the old JBL one, and hey presto, no  problem.


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## lstratton (11 Feb 2008)

oh thankyou for that.  I didn't do it that way.  will do that when I get home from work this evening.
thankyou very much


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## bugs (11 Feb 2008)

Just to add...

Do the soap test with the kit all in situ. Try moving the pipework small amounts to stress the joint a little (as would normally occur under normal use) as you apply the soapy water.


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## lstratton (11 Feb 2008)

well I just did that and I still can't find a leak.  My only guess is that the bottle has emptied so I'm not picking up a leak, so when I get my new bottle in a couple of days I'll put the reg etc on that and try it again, hopefully that'll turn up something.


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## 2pods (13 Feb 2008)

If it's an inline solenoid (fixed on the reg as opposed to after the needle valve with tubing) be careful the solenoid is not on backwards.

Anyone with an Aquamas reg will know what I mean. 
There is a arrow indicating co2 flow and it's possible to fit it the wrong way around.

If so, everything will work fine for about two days, then there will be zero on the gauges, a very light bottle (i.e. empty) and, in my case, the solenoid loosely swinging about the connection.

Persevere though, it will come right eventually


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## lstratton (13 Feb 2008)

Oh god this is so frustrating.  Just got the new bottle, attached the reg, have reading on both the dials now, did the soap test - still couldn't find any leaks, but there isn't anything coming out now.  Argh!  What do I do now?  Do you think that it is a faulty reg?


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## ceg4048 (13 Feb 2008)

Hi lstratton,
                   Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I read quickly through the posts and I couldn't see where you specified the regulator brand or model. Perhaps if you posted a picture it would calibrate us so we could see what we were dealing with.

Now don't get upset if I ask some really obvious questions because I'm having to use my imagination OK?

Is the knob on the bottle neck in the fully open position?
Did you plug the solenoid in?
Have you rotated the needle valve fully open and fully closed to see if the output gauge changes readings?

If both gauges show a reading it means that pressure is available at the regulator up to the solenoid. The bottle gauge may read something like 50 Bar and the output gauge may read something like 1 to 2 PSI.

With power applied to the solenoid attach one end of the CO2 hose to the solenoid outlet and the other end into a cup of water to see if bubbles are coming out. If no bubbles come out cycle power to the solenoid several times. When you apply power to the solenoid listen carefully for a "click" or "clap" which tells you that the solenoid valve has changed position. If there is no sound this will indicate that the solenoid is faulty.

Depending on your model, you may be able to remove and replace the solenoid. However, a solenoid which fails stuck in the closed position does not explain the loss of gas you had previously unless it has an internal leak. If it is possible to remove the solenoid try using the regulator without it.

That's really all I can think of right now. As I said, if we could see a picture of the installation it would be better than a thousand words.

Cheers mate,


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## lstratton (14 Feb 2008)

Hi,
Thankyou so much for all of your help.  The answers to your questions are - 
1 Yes
2 Yes, but I then unplugged it to see if it worked without, but haven't had any change
3 Yes but the gauge dial doesn't change when I do this.

Here is the link of the reg that I got off ebay - 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dual-Gauged-CO2-R ... m153.l1262

I have the CO2 tubing (from Aqua essentials) leading from the reg to a check valve, then onto a bubble counter (I have 2 a glass one and a plastic one, am using the plastic at the moment as changed over from the glass), this then leads up and into the tank and I don't have diffuser because I managed to break a bit off it, so am going to buy one from Aqua essentials once I get this all sorted.
I have tried to take the solenoid off, but it doesn't come off, unless I unscrew it with a wrench (think that is the right term).  I'll take a picture this evening when I get home.

Also how do I cycle the solenoid?

Thankyou once again, I will get it sorted, but up until a week ago i was petrified about putting the whole lot together (convinced I'd get it wrong and it'd blow up), now I've got that sorted, it is another thing.  At least I'll be an expert by the end.  Oh and the CO2 source is a fire extinguisher from ebay.
Hope this all helps


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## 2pods (14 Feb 2008)

Looks like your reg came with the solenoid already fiitted, so it will be on the right way.

"cycling" the solenoid is AFAIK plugging in and out a few times.
I know it's a hassle, but could you make sure the socket/plug board it's plugged into is getting power ?

If you have dial readings, it leaves either the needle valve, the solenoid, the non return valve, or the tubing (very unlikely as AE are pretty good)

If there are no click like sounds when the solenoid is switched on, I would suspect that.

If that goes OK, you could try a different non return valve ?


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## lstratton (14 Feb 2008)

okay, will try that all tonight.
thankyou


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## 2pods (14 Feb 2008)

lstratton said:
			
		

> okay, will try that all tonight.
> thankyou



No problem.

I remember what it was like, so I hope something works for you.


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## lstratton (15 Feb 2008)

right solenoid is working, so it can't be that.  Will get another return valve and see if that is it..
Am getting there slowly.
Quick question though, should I still add the ferts even though there isn't any CO2?  I don't want to get any algae!


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## lstratton (15 Feb 2008)

having said that, there are now bubbles in the bubble counter but none coming out the other end in the tank.  Should I be seeing them coming out the tubing in the tank?  I don't have a diffuser on at the moment.
When I turn the knob on the needle valve (?) there is no change in the rate of the bubbles coming out - what does this mean?


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## lstratton (15 Feb 2008)

okay, so it stopped again.  I did the cycling of the solenoid and it started again.  Would that mean that there is something wrong with the solenoid?


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## ceg4048 (15 Feb 2008)

Hi,
     Nutrients don't cause algae. _Lack_ of nutrients causes algae. Navigate over to the Algae Forum and study those threads from top to bottom. Lots of good info there.

OK, so the solenoid works. Now, is it possible to remove the check valve completely and to see is gas comes out?. Also, bubble counters are notorious for leaking. Remove the bubble counter and attach the hose without it.

If the pressure is very low the gas might only very slowly find its way into the tank. The water pressure in the tank is higher so the gas has to fight that "back" pressure on it's way out..

Cheers,


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## lstratton (15 Feb 2008)

okay, have done that but still there is nothing coming out in the tank.
The gauges show 60psi and 2psi, could the pressure be the problem?


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## ceg4048 (15 Feb 2008)

Hi,
     For troubleshooting it's better if you get the tube out of the tank and just use a cup of water to stick the end of the tube in without any of the other equipment that is mounted in the tank. 2 psi should produce strong bubbles out of the end of the tube. I'm not clear on what you have done so far tonight. Did you remove the non-return valve? What about the bubble counter, did you try removing that as well and attaching the tube directly to the port you removed the bubble counter from?

Cheers,


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## lstratton (15 Feb 2008)

i have taken the check valve and bubble counter off and attached the tubing to the needle valve directly.  will try it with a cup of water.


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## lstratton (16 Feb 2008)

okay I have got it to work and I think I was being very stupid about the whole thing.  I thought if you plugged the solenoid in then the bubbles would stop, but it seems not.  I plugged it in and have loads now - admittedly that is without the check valve or bubble counter, so think that they could have been a problem as well.  Oh this is so exciting!

Thankyou so much everyone for you help and your patience with another complete newb!


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## 2pods (16 Feb 2008)

Great !   

Let us know if there's anything else we can help with.


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## TDI-line (16 Feb 2008)

Good luck.


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## ty_phan (28 Feb 2008)

Hi lstratton and everyone,
Istratton, glad to read that your FE system is now working. I can't wait to setup one for my Aquatlantic 230l planted tank. I have two Natual Plant Sytems running but there are not enough CO2 for my tank, and also there is no activator & stabilizer package left at the moment. Beside they are very expensive. I also don't want to change it every 2-3 weeks. 

I've thought about FE for few months ago, but i was scared and did not know how to setup a FE system, and wondered what components needed to buy etc...

I think it is a good time to get it started. But can one sugguest & recomment the right components, and some guides how to set it up once i've got all the components?

Many thanks.


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## lstratton (28 Feb 2008)

HI there, it really isn't as scary as you think it will do.
Firstly you will need a regulator (has the gauges on it), then a solenoid if you want your CO2 to be turned off automatically, a bubble counter, a check/stop valve and then a diffuser.
The order you attach things are regulator to FE, solenoid to regulator (if not already attached), tubing that leads to a stop valve, more tubing leading to a bubble counter, then more tubing that leads to the diffuser which you place in the tank as far down as possible, so that it gives more chance for the CO2 to diffuse through the whole tank.
When you are attaching the reg to the FE, firstly unscrew the spray horn bit, then attache the regulator to this.  use a wrench for this and do it as tightly as you can.  Then take the pin out of the handles and squeeze the handles down.  You shouldn't hear any sound like air escaping (leak if there is), and you should see the dials in the gauges have readings on them.).  Then get some masking tape and wrap it around the handle to keep them squeezed together.  Then attach everything else, check for leaks as well (full description of that earlier on in this post), place the diffuser into your tank and then adjust the bubble flow with the needle valve, which is usually attached to the regulator.

hope that helps.  Sure I've forgotten something along the way, but I know how much of a mine field it looks like when you are just starting, and it can get depressing if it doesn't work, but is so easy when it does.


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## ty_phan (28 Feb 2008)

Thanks lstratton. It sounds very simple isn't it? Well i hope it will be. I was worry about the openning horn step. I though it could blow off if i don't have clues.

I will order the compoments sometimes this week or so. Do you think the bottle you had on ebay is a good one? I've never buy any thing from ebay before. I've heard there are alot doggy stuffs out there. 

From what you mentioned, here are the components that i need to order, and i think they are not really have to be the same product branch, but they will work? If i miss something out, please let me know:

1) a CO2 FE bottle
2) a Regulator
3) a solenoid 
4) a bubble counter
5)  check/stop valve
6) a diffuser
7) Air tube

What is check/stop valve? a picutre or a link to show it would help me to order.  Is there any stuff from my current Natual Plant Sytems that can be reused when setting up the FE? And finally add the cost of all components together, how much will it be approx? About Â£150?  I was about to take home a JBL Profile set 2 from lfs, but the bottle is 500mg which i believe is not good enough. I asked the shop owner how much it would cost to exchange for a 2kg bottle at the time i buy the set, he said it would cost an extra of Â£140.
Cheers.


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