# Anyone using these without trouble?



## Reuben (20 Dec 2013)

Hi

TMC Grobeam 600.

I have a hi tech 125L with these over and a controller so I can dim them.  They seem to be very powerful as far as I can tell.  I find that I have to run them at 25% max output or I get diatoms -lots of them.  

Just interested to know if anyone has done PAR readings on these, or is using them without dimming them or raising them to the ceiling!

Thanks


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## Andy D (20 Dec 2013)

Rob P has them and has to run them at 20%. I also read another thread with a similar outcome that resulted in them running at 20%. Seems they are quite powerful by all accounts!


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## sanj (21 Dec 2013)

I have one over an 80 litre breeding tank, but it is about 6-8" above the tank. I have a PAR meter I can check tomorrow, but I dont think it was that high.


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## Reuben (21 Dec 2013)

sanj said:


> I have one over an 80 litre breeding tank, but it is about 6-8" above the tank. I have a PAR meter I can check tomorrow, but I dont think it was that high.


 
Brilliant!  That would be very handy if you could.  I initially thought they had similar output to T5 tubes, but I seem to have trouble (diatoms) that is usually associated with high level lighting.  

Can you test them at 100%, 50% and 25% output or do you not have a controller?


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## George Farmer (21 Dec 2013)

Ian Holdich used two over an 80cm I believe - and with great results.

I've long term success with 1500 tiles, which use the same LEDs; just more of them.


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## Reuben (21 Dec 2013)

George Farmer said:


> George Farmer Founder Offline Message Count: 6,903 New Ian Holdich used two over an 80cm I believe - and with great results. I've long term success with 1500 tiles, which use the same LEDs; just more of them.


 
Thanks George, though I think Ian was using the 500's (not sure how much difference that makes though).  Yes maybe they're not that powerful, but then I'm none the wiser as to why I get such full on diatom problems.  

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record with my posts about diatoms, and would like to be contributing something more interesting to the forum!  I think I'm close to getting the hang of this High tech set-up but cannot get good growth from stem plants P. Stellatus for example I'm on my third try with it and it still hasn't got going.

For the record my set-up is:

Fluval 125L tank
Ehiem Pro 3 350T filter
Koralia 900 -circulation pump
Up inline atomizer from FE Co2 -on a solenoid
2x TMC grobeam 600's  @ 25% for 8 hrs (about an inch above the water- in a lid)
6ml easycarbo each day
Dosing EI
2 x 80% water change per week
Tank very clean filter serviced once a week (just the top bit)
drop checker is yellow - fish are fine though!

I won't blether on too much  but I have tried all sorts to get back on track.  I re-scaped in August and all was good for the first 6 weeks when I then had a problem with Co2 (check valve faulty)  took me about a week to correct it and I think this is what inducted the diatoms.  Wasn't too worried, reduced the lighting to 10% and did 70% water changes every other day for out 6 weeks.  This did not improve things and plant growth stalled or stopped for most species.  

I'm sort of at the point of giving up!  I'm thinking of increasing the light to 100% - the theory being I'll get faster plant growth and less static surfaces for the diatoms to grow on (I know, don't shoot me down in flames just yet though!).  I've absolutely no other algae at all.  If this all goes wrong and the plants melt then I'm thinking I might go low tech instead lots of Crypts, Anubias and Echinodorus and Vallis type plants.

Arrgghhh


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## sanj (21 Dec 2013)

Reuben said:


> Brilliant! That would be very handy if you could. I initially thought they had similar output to T5 tubes, but I seem to have trouble (diatoms) that is usually associated with high level lighting. Can you test them at 100%, 50% and 25% output or do you not have a controller?


 
Reuben, do you mean brown diatoms? if so I would say that is more associated with cycling aquariums and low light.

I have many breeding tanks many using different led lighting. The one I mentioned has one single grobeam 600. It lights a 76cm x 30cm x 38cm high tank. The PAR readings:


Normal position 58cm from substrate: 16-18 micromols
40 cm from substrate: 35 micromols
They are not that powerful, but 35 is a good level for most plants. I grow some plants fine, but slowly in low tech mode at <20 micromols at substrate, which is fine for my breeding tanks.

Sorry i dont have a dimmer on this tank.

I had brown diatioms on some of the tanks, but I added ottos and this went away overnight.


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## Andy D (21 Dec 2013)

I found this thread quite useful - Diatom dilemma... | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Andy D (21 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> I found this thread quite useful - Diatom dilemma... | UK Aquatic Plant Society



Argh sorry, just saw this was from your enquiry originally. Didn't mean to rub salt into the wound!


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## Reuben (21 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> Argh sorry, just saw this was from your enquiry originally. Didn't mean to rub salt into the wound!


I know.  Now you know what I mean about sounding like a broken record....

Sanj - thanks for the readings, it would seem to confirm that my lighting is low then.  



sanj said:


> , do you mean brown diatoms? if so I would say that is more associated with cycling aquariums and low light.


 
Well I do think they are diatoms, yes brown, they scrub off rocks but are a bit tricky to remove from plants without damaging them.  I do have 4 Otto's in there (because I like them as fish) but they don't seem to make much of a dent in the algae coverage.  

At the moment things are not too bad, I can control and limit the diatom spread, I have cleared most of it on the Bolbitus, and most off of the Anubias.  Stauro repens is infected and sickly looking, and even old leaves on G. Spilanthodies are affected.  
 
 
 
 
 

If you look at the photo of the Pogostemon Stellatus, that is pretty much as good as mine gets and what tends to happen from here in is the old leaves get damaged - or more likely diatom covered-  and new growth is so slow that the plant diminishes over time.  What I'm after is lush health stems that are fast growing

I really don't see that I can increase/improve my Co2 level/flow/distribution any more, and don't forget I'm putting 6ml of easy carbo in 125L every day, I mean how much Co2 are they wanting!!!

So what should I try next?  Increase my light output to 100% and hope growth (of plants!) kicks in?  Or is that just asking for a meltdown and diatom takeover?
Reuben


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## tim (21 Dec 2013)

Pogo stellatus is a really difficult stem to grow IMO only does ok under really high light, swap it out for some limnophilia aromatica similar stem bit easier once it gets going.


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## Reuben (21 Dec 2013)

tim said:


> wap it out for some limnophilia aromatica similar stem bit easier once it gets going.


 
Hi Tim, actually I did try limnophilia aromatica, the first time round it grew very very slowly and eventually stalled, on my second attempt it melted the day after I added it

I couldn't even get Rotala rotundifolia to work for me!  It took about three weeks to change it's leaf structure to the submerged type, then -yep you guessed it- grew so slowly it gradually declined over a couple of months. 

I have had some success honest!  Crypts though fairly slow growing do very well and are always in the best of health , the anubias grew like mad and flowered and are still growing fairly quick, but are a bit affected by the brown coating.


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## tim (21 Dec 2013)

Maybe up your intensity but cut a couple of hours off the photoperiod, make sure co2 is optimum at lights on, Ian holdich recommended purigen to keep diatoms at bay which I have to agree saw mine off, could also be a distribution of flow issue as much as I like spray bars i find with lots of plant mass and hard scape centrally sometimes works better to run single filter outlet across the front of the tank with power head across the back preferably facing the same direction.


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## Reuben (22 Dec 2013)

Anyone else got any advice/opinion?  Given the above should I increase the lighting or not?
Thanks


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## Jaap (15 Oct 2014)

This is very helpful! Finally some actual PAR readings for the GroBeam 600! Now everything makes sense!

If at 40 cm you get 35 micromols then if I have it at 45 cm above substrate with a glass lid full of condensation in between, then surely I will have less than 35 micromols which does explain the fact that plants are not growing and that the plants were melting at 30% intensity and 50 cm above substrate which I had it at the beginning.  

Do you have a glass lid sanj? What plants do you have? Any information on the tank would be helpful.

Thanks



sanj said:


> Reuben, do you mean brown diatoms? if so I would say that is more associated with cycling aquariums and low light.
> 
> I have many breeding tanks many using different led lighting. The one I mentioned has one single grobeam 600. It lights a 76cm x 30cm x 38cm high tank. The PAR readings:
> 
> ...


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## aquamania (11 Feb 2016)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread...... But Reuben did you sort out your lighting issue with the tmc's? The passed 4 months I am having a very similar issue to you. I lowered intensity to 20% whilst sorting co2 dissolution and distribution. This resulted in no growth and plants eventually fading away.  In the passed fortnight I have increased intensity from 20% to 40% and I'm wondering how high to go. These last batch of plants have been in just over a week so conscious that I don't want to nuke them. However I'm also aware that based on others posts that 40% may actually be too low. 

My tank is 200l with jbl cristal profi1501 filter with spray bar. Additional 2000lph eheim powerhead. So flow is good. 
I have a good level of co2 1 unit ph drop by lights on and I'm using ei (including Magnesium sulphate)....


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## aaron.c (11 Feb 2016)

Hey Aquamania

I have just replaced mine with a 4 x T5 iQuatics unit.  Will report back when they have settled in.

Plants started pearling within an hour.

Aaron


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## Wisey (11 Feb 2016)

aquamania said:


> Sorry to resurrect an old thread...... But Reuben did you sort out your lighting issue with the tmc's? The passed 4 months I am having a very similar issue to you. I lowered intensity to 20% whilst sorting co2 dissolution and distribution. This resulted in no growth and plants eventually fading away.  In the passed fortnight I have increased intensity from 20% to 40% and I'm wondering how high to go. These last batch of plants have been in just over a week so conscious that I don't want to nuke them. However I'm also aware that based on others posts that 40% may actually be too low.
> 
> My tank is 200l with jbl cristal profi1501 filter with spray bar. Additional 2000lph eheim powerhead. So flow is good.
> I have a good level of co2 1 unit ph drop by lights on and I'm using ei (including Magnesium sulphate)....




There is a thread where some of us having been discussing this more recently:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/par-readings-for-tmc-mini-led-400-and-tmc-grobeam-600.33192/

I'm up to 80% on my 1500 ultima tile, suspended 30cm above the surface and the tank is 45 high, so its around 70 cm from the substrate. I also have a plexiglas cover which gets covered in condensation and diffuses light further. I spent ages with this thing on low intensity last year and stuggled to grow anything other than plants that dont need much light. Most plants were just dormant or died. I had some CO2 equipment problems over Christmas and New Year, but I am getting things going again now and 70% for a week gave me some new growth, upped it to 80% last weekend and my Ech. Rose that has never put out a new leaf since November has put out two this week!

Some people insist that these need to be run on a low intensity, but it really depends how high they are, is there a cover etc. I'm rescaping in a few weeks, so trying to test the limits of the light and see where I get algae. I'm planning on going to 90% this weekend and maybe 100% the week after.


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## micheljq (11 Feb 2016)

I use one Grobeam 600 over my 65g tank, mixed with 2 other leds fixtures from other companies.  The Grobeam 600 is the latest addition.  It is 22" from the substrate and running 4 hours on full (one other fixture 4 hours and another 6 hours)  I have no controller.  CO2 must be 12-15ppm, and ferts.

The first month i had an algae rush, but it did finish after cleanup and water changes.

I really like it.

Michel.


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## aquamania (11 Feb 2016)

Interesting. Mine sit on top of the condensation glass within a hood, so I'm not able to raise them. They are probably 50cm or so from the substrate. I am having no problem whatsoever with java fern, crypts and anubias.

I think my plan at the moment is to see if having them at 40% has any adverse effects over the next few days. If not then I may raise them another 2% each day and see what happens.


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## aquamania (11 Feb 2016)

Wisey, thanks for the link. that was one of the threads I'd seen which made me reach the conclusion that increasing intensity is the way forward. 

My photoperiod is relatively short, 6.5 hrs including a 60 min ramp up and down. So only 4.5 hrs at peak. My thinking is that even if I raise the intensity quite high the photo period isn't excessive.


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## Wisey (11 Feb 2016)

Yeah, I'm 6 hours at 80% and only ramp for 15 minutes. I have heard of people running them at 100% when suspended higher, so I'm working towards that. If that works I'll add half an hour to the duration each week, but probably won't go beyond 7 hours.


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## aquamania (12 Feb 2016)

Wisey. Can I ask how much you increase them by each time? I'm considering upping them by 10% this weekend.


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## Wisey (13 Feb 2016)

When I was being careful last year I increased by 10% per week. As I'm rescaping in a few weeks I started at 60% when I got my CO2 running again, jumped to 80% last weekend and was planning on going to 90% tomorrow, but I might just jump in at 100% and see how it goes.


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## aquamania (13 Feb 2016)

I take it that you've not seen any adverse effects then over the last week with the 20% increase?


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## Wisey (13 Feb 2016)

Just good growth, but remember my tank is different to yours and what works for me could cause algae for you. My light is 30cm from water surface and a 45cm high tank.


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## aquamania (13 Feb 2016)

Yeah. I appreciate that but given that the last 5 months ive seen plants stay dormant and die I'm prepared to try more light. Realised a typo in earlier post as my lights were actually 45% this week. I am going to try a 15% increase today and see how I get on at 60% for the next week. Nothing ventured nothing gained..........


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## aaron.c (29 Feb 2016)

I have switched to the iQuatics 4 x T5 unit for my Rio 125 and the growth has been massively improved.

I think I perhaps have too much light at the moment so I need to balance the 2 sets of tubes timer settings.

The plants are going red near the top and the fish look much better colours.

Will get a pic later.


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## aquamania (23 Apr 2016)

Just as an update I ended up increasing intensity to 100% and noted slightly improved growth although still not what I'd expect with the amount of co2 injected and ei. In the end I decided that contrary to what I had been reading on many threads about keeping light intensity low to reduce co2 demand that I would try an alternative strategy.......I bought a 2x39 watt t5 to add to my grobeam. I understand that this is a risky strategy but given that nothing had been growing and in fact had been dying I decided that I couldn't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. I'm glad to say that it paid off within the first week i started seeing growth on my remaining plants that were on deaths door. Within the following weeks hairgrass that I forgotten had been planted reappeared in the sand. I added some new plants and my tank is now thriving with lush green growth that I have been able to trim and replant so it is filling out nicely. I added the t5 over a month ago and I'm so glad I did. Im a little annoyed with myself that I wasted so much time and money in dead plants with my lights on such a low setting (15% at one point). Clearly in my case twin ultima 600s were insufficient for a 200 litre tank. My only issue now is dealing with the bba that took hold before I introduced the t5.


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## aquamania (1 May 2016)

Thought I'd upload a photo of my tank as it stands. It won't win any competitions but I'm quite pleased with it. 

You will note an absence of fish. I am ashamed to say I had a one time timer malfunction. Which meant my co2 for one day was on from midnight till 7pm instead of noon till 7. I am only left with some dwarf please, corydoras and a couple of otos. I'm planning on getting a large shoal of chili rasboras.


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