# What stone?



## Fred13 (31 Oct 2018)

Hello,

I am really confused of what stone should i choose for my next layout..

I am thinking of something that stone will lay down first and then soil backwards , sand in front.
Something like in this video


Juri uses frodo stone which is pretty nice but increases the ph hardness and i dont know if i should mess with a lime stone.

I need some height and a good contrast with la plata.
ada kei stone for example is in perfect shape for my job , but a reddish stone cannot work well with la plata and red plants, at least for my eyes..

And i dont want to go for something super expensive such as manten stones..

I need your help!
Thank you


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## Tim Harrison (31 Oct 2018)

You don't need to worry about raising TDS or pH. Most of the rocks we like to scape with are sedimentary and therefore have some sort of carbonate content which makes them easily weathered and eroded. That's what creates the interesting surfaces that we find so attractive. However, the process is often so slow it has minimal influence on water chemistry, especially when you factor in frequent and substantial water changes that reset it.

I'm not sure of the exact geology of Kei stone, but it looks sedimentary and therefore it will also have carbonate content and will probably also raise TDS over time as well. Take a look at this https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/collecting-your-own-rocks-aquarium-safe.52205/#post-513965

Either way, most plants and critters couldn't give a monkey's. In fact I find it easier to grow some plants in hard water because they can synthesise carbon from bicarbonates e.g. vallis, crypts, _Bucephalandra and anubias_ species and very probably a variety of mosses, to name a few.

So in short just go with whatever you like aesthetically; that is, so long as it doesn't contain arsenic, or some other poisonous mineral or compound


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## Fred13 (31 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> You don't need to worry about raising TDS or pH. Most of the rocks we like to scape with are sedimentary and therefore have some sort of carbonate content which makes them easily weathered and eroded. That's what creates the interesting surfaces that we find so attractive. However, the process is often so slow it has minimal influence on water chemistry, especially when you factor in frequent and substantial water changes that reset it.
> 
> I'm not sure of the exact geology of Kei stone, but it looks sedimentary and therefore it will also have carbonate content and will probably also raise TDS over time as well. Take a look at this https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/collecting-your-own-rocks-aquarium-safe.52205/#post-513965
> 
> ...



Hello Tim and thank you very much for your detailed answer!

Here is a video showing KEI stone vs seiryu stone in a quick test for lime .


Kei doesnt show any signs of lime.. But in terms of aesthetics a dark stone is more beautiful..

So you suggest me to go for frodo stone ? When you say minimal influence on water chemistry could you please determine this? If for example i have a 250 liters tank with 50kgs of frodo stone and my tap water ph is about 7,5  (6,6-,68) with co2 what would be the difference?


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## Tim Harrison (31 Oct 2018)

Okay, just read on the ADA site that it's volcanic in origin. I'd go with whatever you like the look of better.
It'll make as near as damn it no practical difference especially given your relatively high pH.
Scapers have been using limestone rocks for decades now, if there was an issue we wouldn't still be using them.


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## Fred13 (31 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Okay, just read on the ADA site that it's volcanic in origin. I'd go with whatever you like the look of better.
> It'll make as near as damn it no practical difference especially given your relatively high pH.
> Scapers have been using limestone rocks for decades now, if there was an issue we wouldn't still be using them.


Thank you very much Tim !

I should just choose what i like and forget about all these things about ph etc etc ... 


 



I would also like to ask something totally different .. I want to try purigen for the first time in my new planted tank.
Does this affect the no3 and consequently the growth of plants?  I will go with amazonia soil at this scape (for the first time). I read that it leaches huge amounts of nitrogen. May purigen decrease the soils performance?

Btw i am attaching two photos of my last nature tank.. day 1 and now.....


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## alto (31 Oct 2018)

Purogen isn't cheap & even though you can regenerate it has a limited lifespan (as do all ion exchange resins) so I wouldn’t waste it during the first several weeks of an ADA tank - ADA protocol is daily 50-90% water changes so that should ensure clear water anyway 

ADA is also lean water column dosing - listen to Jurijs mit JS and GreenAqua discuss ADA methodology for minimal algae tanks ... all those substrate additives have a purpose within the technique so if you’re skipping some, know what you’re doing instead 

I’m a Tropica person 
(in part after a negative ADA experience and zero support from the rep despite obvious quality issues with the soil)

I have some Kei stone - ADA - it’s quite variable and although I chose WYSIWYG that is not what arrived ... but you might be mostivating me to try & salvage something from the investment 
(it was also “lost” by the postal service enroute AND they were insisting it had never existed ... until the business threatened legal action ... next day my stone is “found” and delivered with 36h ... adding to my subconscious ADA negativity)

Kei Stone is amazing with a green aquascape - try a few “orange” highlight plants rather than the “pink” reds 
Also choose suitable subtle fish ie cardinalstetras need not apply ... 

I also suspect the limestone effect is grossly overrated ... I had 20-40kg (ie a lot of Seiryu) in my 220l tank AND no water changes for 3 months AND very soft tap water ... result: usual pH 6ish, 1KH, 1-2GH 

If you go back far enough on American planted tank forums, lots of use of Seiryu type stones & no considerations over the possible carbonate effects ... then it becomes _Trendy_ to assume vast pH & hardness effects and though a few spoke up saying they observed nothing of the sort - they’re drowned out by the masses


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## Fred13 (31 Oct 2018)

alto said:


> Purogen isn't cheap & even though you can regenerate it has a limited lifespan (as do all ion exchange resins) so I wouldn’t waste it during the first several weeks of an ADA tank - ADA protocol is daily 50-90% water changes so that should ensure clear water anyway
> 
> ADA is also lean water column dosing - listen to Jurijs mit JS and GreenAqua discuss ADA methodology for minimal algae tanks ... all those substrate additives have a purpose within the technique so if you’re skipping some, know what you’re doing instead
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for the info Alto 

I am sorry for your bad experience with ada soil.. I bought the ''full package'' with all the additives.. To be specific , i have the tourmaline , the special power sand (which contains bacter and the other additive i cant remember its name) and the soil.. 
I know that i should do water changes for the first 2 to 3 weeks but not in a daily basis.. I found an ada guide suggesting a water change every other day . I dont have a problem to do daily water changes but it isnt my best ofcourse due to my working schedule.. 
I will for sure use tropica soil in a future project because i see that it has great reviews in general around web.

For fertilizers i used to dose EI at my tanks.. For the first time i will go with ada lean dosing and probably with ada fertilizers just to test companys system .

As for the stones you are right that Kei stones seem amazing in a planted setup. Amazing contrasts with green plants ..  It isnt enough dark to provide the atmosphere i want but i havent decide yet so it is still an option..


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