# New and confused



## James87 (25 Feb 2013)

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and new to aquariums in general. I have set up my new Fluval Spec (19 litre) and have attempted to scape it in an Iwagumi style. I planted some HC at the front and some Staurogyne Repens at the back.

Excuse the camera photos:












I am waiting for my co2 kit to arrive and I am using small doses of Flourish in the meantime, however I have been looking for different options on lighting for days now and I am more confused than when I began. I want to create a carpet effect and so want to avoid too much vertical growth (especially the HC) because of the small size of the tank I want to create the illusion of space.

I am baffled by all the Watt/litre rules and T5 vs LED's etc, and because of the small and narrow size of the tank I am struggling to find a suitable solution and keeping the costs down (hence the fluval spec lol).

The dimensions of the tank are approx 51cm long x 16 cm wide x 26 cm deep/tall. Hence a 60cm overhead is too long and a 35-40 cm is too short! Because of the small size I have looked at clip on t5 fixtures at both 11Watt and 18Watt.

I have considered all sorts of options and I need some help from some more experienced minds....

What wattage T5 would be appropriate for this size, growing HC carpet with co2.

Appreciate any help you can give me,

Thanks,

James


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## James87 (25 Feb 2013)

I think I am going with the following which seems to be a perfect fit for the size:

Aqua Japan 18w

This will give me roughly 1 watt per litre / 3.5 watt per gallon so should induce enough photosynthesis to enable me to get full benefit and balance from the co2 system in such a small tank.

I am worried that the Staurogyne Repens is not holding too well in the very light substrate and although the roots are growing I am worried about not getting any lateral growth or deep roots. Can anyone with experience advise me on planting the Repens, can I remove some of the bottom leaves to allow me to push them down deeper and hopefully get a better purchase on the soil?

Thanks,

James


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## nayr88 (25 Feb 2013)

Hi James
Welcome to the forum 

Congratulations on that little layout, looks really good, good plant choice nice stones. 
I really like the look of these tanks so all in  all not a bad little tank you've got here 

Lighting!!! 
Well don't get to carried away with lighting, obviously the HC is quite demanding but you want to make sure your fertiliser dosing is in full order and your co2 is in full order. It would of been much better to ask questions on these before starting up and approaching a bit more methodically, no worries though I think it's how most of us found our way here by having a go and scratching our heads before having a google session haha

So
What Co2 kit have you ordered?
What fertilisers are you dosing?
What is the flow of filter on the tank rated at?

We like to use a minimum of 10x turn over of the tank per hour. So your tank is 19litres, ideally we are hoping the filters LPH is 190 at least. 

With fertilisers, especially when adding co2 we like to use a full 'EI' dosing kit, you can pick up a kit from aquarium plant food uk. It takes all the confusion and maths out of it for you and is very cheap when compared to branded fertilisers.

There's stickies in the subsections if the forum that can go into much more detail if you want to have a look at them.

Co2, do you have a drop checker and fluid?
The drop checker is an item placed in the tank that measures levels of co2 in the water column by changing colour, if you havnt got one then i highly recommend adding it to a shopping list.
Have you ordered a cute little mini co2 kit? If so you'll be changing the cartridges like there's no tomorrow mate so have a look at the stickies regarding 'FE co2' it's basically using a co2 fire extinguisher and a regulator that fits to deliver co2 to the tank, setting up cost are a little more but filthy cheap to run. 

Please read more on co2 at the co2 section by reading the stickies  

Now once that is all sorted
We are back at lighting 
That light would work fine, IF all other aspects are met. 

•co2
•flow
•dosing the water column

Other wise that light is overkill. WAAAYYY overkill.

Please forget LPW rules 

I think for this tank I would of considered a moss alternative for the fairground and kept the staury for the back as you have. Saying that you could very easily have the HC carpeting with the right co2 and ferts.



EDITED VERSION
wouldn't allow me to change my post so redone to clear up any spelling :/ feel free to delete my other post


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## James87 (26 Feb 2013)

Hi,

Thanks for the constructive comments. The reason for my post was after extensive weeks of google research and eventually thinking I can't learn anymore without jumping in at the deep end and finding out (the hard way). An all-night session of researching and bouncing back between American and UK websites and non-availability of lights for the awkward tank size meant I was pulling my hair out.... (LED vs T5, Watt per gallon vs Lumen per square inch... co2, fert and light balancing)... all had me going crazy trying to order the right parts lol. I didn't want to order a £60 LED light rig that was only marginally better than the standard Fluval lights, since I don't have room or money for a hanging overhead luminaire.

Co2 is HSL Pro-01 <== "Link" and I am attaching bubble counter straight to the regulator. I will be using this with a standard nano diffuser and using paintball tank which should last a long-time. As you quite rightly say, although a mini-kit can be cheaper initially, the cost will balance out on the constant replacement of cartridges.

The set-up I have ordered from Hong Kong (AquariumHK) and even with the £17 shipping cost its a total of about £55 (plus £10 import VAT) including all tubing and diffuser and check valves, which is still a lot cheaper than any aquarium specific dual gauge kit that I could find from a UK shop. Since I am new to co2 I didn't want to risk an extreme yoyo effect from a Bio-co2 system in my inexperienced hands. It was a balancing act for me since I am moving house next year and hope to get a bigger tank (eg. 60x45x30 cm), so I am considering this as an investment for the future to reduce costs. This is why I needed to know about light powers to create the right balance in such a small aquarium, (did I mention learning the hard way haha!)

I will update how I get on with the delivery from AquariumHK to help other forum users or newbies like myself who want a cheap solution and don't mind waiting for international orders. I have heard good reviews in general and had a helpful service so far.

I have ordered a drop checker, but I guess that's another thing I will have to learn the right levels as I go along trial and error. I believe I am right in saying the pH solution (6.0 to 7.6) that comes with the API freshwater test kit is Bromothymol Blue so can be used in a drop check? Is this correct? Now I just need a 4 dKH solution when my setup arrives.

The flow of the filter/pump should be sufficient. I have heard many people having problems with the flow from these Fluval Spec V's being too high (!) for some fish, and from what I can gather it is 53-83 Gallon per Hour circulation rate with an adjustable slider. That works out at 240 to 375 (approx.) Litre per hour. With the substrate taken off I think my water volume should be roughly 17 litres. At the moment I am using the highest setting to kickstart the nitrogen cycle as I would eventually like to host some shrimp in the tank, but may move to a lower setting in a few weeks once the plants and cycle are more established.

Since my last post I replanted some of the Staurogyne Repens, removing some bottom leaves and pushing them deeper into the substrate. I hope this will help them establish better in the tank horizontally. I am using Fluval shrimp stratum but it is very light, so for my future tanks I might choose a smaller and heavier-grained substrate since it was very awkward to stop the plants from floating up. However, I am hoping this means the roots of the plants will find it easier to move through the substrate and spread nicely.

Thanks for mentioning the fertilisers. I am using JBL AquaBasis plus mixed in with the Fluval Shrimp Stratum, with a small layer beneath. But because the plants may take some time for the roots to reach deep enough for full benefit from the AquaBasis, I think I should dose with a liquid fertiliser as well, especially in the initial growth-phase. Can anybody recommend me a good liquid fertiliser which is easy to dose etc. I looked at the tropica one since that is where the plants are from, but maybe there is a cheaper alternative??

The Tropica seems to be an easy fix (2 pumps of the ferts per week at each water change) ... but then there are 2 types, the specialised (LINK)... or the Premium (LINK). The Premium hasn't got Nitrogen or Phosphorus so would it be best to use the Specialised since I have no fish??

(EDIT: Please note , I am currently adding ammonia at about 3-4ppm to start the cycle, so if I use a fertiliser with nitrogen will this be overkill? especially before I get my light and co2?)

Thanks for all your help, this website is a great resource for information!!

Sorry again for the long post and questions! I think once I have my equipment I will turn this into a Tank Journal with some updated photo's (with a clean tank this time lol) to record my progress and help other newcomers like myself.

Many Thanks,

James


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## James87 (27 Feb 2013)

Hi,

I'll try and keep this one much shorter  


Been looking at the fertilisers since I last posted. I was reading about the Neutro range of products supplied by aquaessentials.co.uk

neutro CO2 | The Planted Aquarium Blog

Since I will be using pressurised Co2 (in about 2 weeks time) it looks like Neutro + is the way to go instead of the Neutro T.

1.Will there be an adverse affect by dosing the Neutro + while there is no pressurised Co2 being used, until it arrives?

2. Regarding the Neutro Co2 liquid carbon, it says to keep using it even when you have pressurised co2 going in. Is this the equivalent of Seachem Flourish excel? I already have Flourish excel so can I just continue using this when I start with the co2?

3. How will this be affected by fauna? I intend to add some shrimp to the tank in a month or so.

Thanks,

James


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2013)

My advice is simple. 

Keep the current lighting and filtration. Concentrate on CO2, other nutrient dosing, and maintenance. If these are spot on it's surprising what little light and flow one requires to grow healthy plants.

Prune off any dying plants. Re-plant any vertical growth with sharp scissors and tweezers.

Personally I would add about 5ml liquid carbon per day now, 5ml Neutro+. Change 75% water every day.

You will need to drop this when livestock go in.

When you add CO2 injection you can continue the dosing of liquid carbon and ferts, but at a safe level i.e. 1-2ml each per day. Change something like 50% water 3x per week.

The Neutro liquid carbon is essentially the same product as Seachem Flourish Excel.


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## James87 (27 Feb 2013)

Thanks for the help!

That's one less product I need to buy then .

Wow that seems a lot of the carbon, the bottle says 5 ml treats 200 litres, so for my approx 17 litre water volume been using 0.425 ml per day. That works out at 5 or 6 drops with my medicine dropper daily. Is this too little for the number of plants in the tank?

I haven't been doing water changes so that the filter cycles, which has begun now, so didn't want to overdo the dosing which is why I've been pretty careful so far.

Cheers


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2013)

Hi James,

Yes, it's a lot. But your plants should be thankful, and it will prevent algae. If you're not too happy with the high qty then try 2ml and build-up, if necessary.


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## James87 (27 Feb 2013)

Ok great, so is that just at the moment until I install the co2?

And there won't be any negative effect from using the Neutro + before the co2 right? I just get so confused between the many types of ferts etc. which is why I want an easy all in one solution


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2013)

James87 said:


> Ok great, so is that just at the moment until I install the co2?


Yes, then you can drop it down. Also ensure it is dosed as per the instructions before adding shrimp.



> And there won't be any negative effect from using the Neutro + before the co2 right? I just get so confused between the many types of ferts etc. which is why I want an easy all in one solution


You can't really overdose nutrients, especially if you're changing the water as suggested in my earlier post. Better to have too many than not enough.


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## James87 (27 Feb 2013)

Nice One!

Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

Had a look at your thread earlier, your tank looks flippin' awesome and I hope I can replicate something like that one day.

Please excuse my paranoia, just want to get it right


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## George Farmer (27 Feb 2013)

James87 said:


> Nice One!
> 
> Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
> 
> ...


My pleasure, and thank you.

Good luck with it all, and a belated welcome to UKAPS.


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## James87 (5 Mar 2013)

Ok so after hunting around for paintball bottles it turns out that pretty much nowhere will fill them up since most paintball sites have switched to air systems now. Thinking about going down the fire extinguisher route as Nayr suggested, seems a lot more accessible. My regulator arrives tomorrow, now I just have to figure out what to do with this din 477 to CGA 320 adapter that I don't need anymore.


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## ian_m (6 Mar 2013)

James87 said:


> ....Ok so after hunting around for paintball bottles it turns out that pretty much nowhere will fill them up since most paintball sites have switched to air systems now....


This is what I found, I called two local'ish paintball sites and they have moved to air as they have a compressor and can fill cylinders themselves without having to rely of CO2 deliveries. One place, still had some CO2 and wanted £10 a refill as I was not taking part in paintballing.

Other smaller than 2Kg CO2 sources I found were CO2supermarket Sodastream adapter and using Sodastream bottles at £10 a go from Argos and many other places.

Also there are 1KG fire extinguishers around but tend to be chrome or polished aluminium and about £60 each and about a common as rocking horse poo.

Ended up going the £10 FE route from local supplier down the road from where I work.

Also found a place that would sell me 2KG FE's that are near the end of their 10 year life and/or have less than 2KG in for £5 each (or less), but I would have to dispose to the cylinder after use. My local tip doesn't take any pressurised cylinders of any type, even if empty, so that was the end of that.


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