# Is there a perfect way to euthanise



## Annabellam (6 Feb 2017)

Hi everyone. I came across a very interesting discussion the other day and thought should get an opinion. I know fish get sick, so is there a perfect way to euthenise your fish when a health issue cannot be resolved? I know people use different means but is there one that is perfect, less painful or more humane perhaps?


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## ian_m (6 Feb 2017)

For me its been chop head off, then down sink waste macerator.


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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2017)

Hi all, 





Annabellam said:


> . I know fish get sick, so is there a perfect way to euthenise your fish when a health issue cannot be resolved?


I've used <"Clove Oil">.

cheers Darrel


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## Aqua360 (6 Feb 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I've used <"Clove Oil">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



this is probably the most humane


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## castle (6 Feb 2017)

Clove Oil for big fish, Nano, i'll chop heads off. Grim, but it's fast. Fish rarely have diseases tho.


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## KipperSarnie (6 Feb 2017)

A deep net & a block of wood so that you catch the fish swing it to hit the wood hard.
All in one fluid movement.

From capture to death in less than a second, no stress.


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## Madhav (7 Feb 2017)

One of my Rasboras had its mouth wide open for days and it is apparently having some issues to close its mouth, when I direcly into its throat, I only see bloody red gills, I dont see any large particles or food etc, though not eating for last one week, it swims well and follow other 15 like any other day. I am hoping to resolve itself as its very difficult for me to catch the tiny  fish in my densly planted 5 footer, any tips on how to catch or the problem? 

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## Annabellam (7 Feb 2017)

Thanks for sharing guys. Madhav maybe it could be bacterial gill disease. Does it look like it has laboured breathing?  That, lost appetite with little or no eating are some of the symptoms. Hope you can figure it out soon before it gets any worse. If it is bacterial gill disease potassium permanganate  and salt water additives can be used to help in healing it.


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## Madhav (8 Feb 2017)

it doesnt show any signs of laboured breathing. not eating at all.
this is how it looks..
how to catch it is another challenge as its a densly planted tank


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## alto (8 Feb 2017)

Possibly a broken jaw - usually terminal - feed tiny particles like decapsulated brine shrimp eggs & fish may get enough nutrition
(Even normal gills look red but it's likely fish is also stressed)

To catch shoaling fish I use a relatively large net & just sweep up the group & hold in a bucket etc -  then remove specific fish

Lovely green plants!


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## Madhav (8 Feb 2017)

castle said:


> Nano, i'll chop heads off. Grim, but it's fast. Fish rarely have diseases tho.





KipperSarnie said:


> A deep net & a block of wood so that you catch the fish swing it to hit the wood hard.
> All in one fluid movement.
> 
> From capture to death in less than a second, no stress.



I will face the same fate if my daughter is around and see me doing this. She is 8 and she loves her fish very much......haha


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## Annabellam (9 Feb 2017)

alto said:


> Possibly a broken jaw - usually terminal - feed tiny particles like decapsulated brine shrimp eggs & fish may get enough nutrition
> (Even normal gills look red but it's likely fish is also stressed)
> 
> To catch shoaling fish I use a relatively large net & just sweep up the group & hold in a bucket etc -  then remove specific fish
> ...



I agree with this advice.


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## Annabellam (9 Feb 2017)

Madhav said:


> I will face the same fate if my daughter is around and see me doing this. She is 8 and she loves her fish very much......haha


LOL... I totally get what you mean. Kids are totally emotional and can get really attached to their pets.


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## Lindy (10 Feb 2017)

I usually use a brick on its end. I have read about clove oil and while it may look peaceful we have no idea what is going on in the fishes mind ie eek I'm in a bowl, eek there is poison in here with me, eek, eek, stressfull death. I tip my fish out of the net onto a large piece of kitchen roll, fold over to prevent mistakes and bang. All this takes is about 2 seconds. It is not Pleasant, It leaves me feeling sick. But I do feel that taking somethings life shouldn't be easy, even when you have no choice. The last fish I had to do this to was a female betta channoides that appeared to have a broken jaw. no idea how it happened but she was slowly starving and her frantic efforts to eat grindle worms were pitiful. Now that I have discus will I use the same method? Yes, but I'll need something bigger than a brick.


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## castle (11 Feb 2017)

When taking trout home for dinner, I tend to use a large rock (if in a stream/middle of nowhere) or a bludgeon, but no idea where mine went, think it was thrown away.


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## limz_777 (11 Feb 2017)

Annabellam said:


> LOL... I totally get what you mean. Kids are totally emotional and can get really attached to their pets.



depends on the cost of the fish and how long youhave kept it as well , expensive fish can make adults emotional as well ,lol


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## Lindy (11 Feb 2017)

limz_777 said:


> depends on the cost of the fish and how long youhave kept it as well , expensive fish can make adults emotional as well ,lol


If you don't feel remotely sad at the loss of a fish beyond it's financial cost you probably shouldn't bother keep them.

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## limz_777 (11 Feb 2017)

Lindy said:


> If you don't feel remotely sad at the loss of a fish beyond it's financial cost you probably shouldn't bother keep them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



subjective issue i guess , still  i wont use a tool to kill a sick fish , since most planters has co2 at hand , why dont gas it ,or clove oil a common sedation for koi to calm them down during treatment , which overdosed to euthanise it , i pretty sure fish like human wants to go to afterlife in a proper state , rather then with a plummeted bleeding head ?


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## Lindy (12 Feb 2017)

limz_777 said:


> subjective issue i guess , still  i wont use a tool to kill a sick fish , since most planters has co2 at hand , why dont gas it ,or clove oil a common sedation for koi to calm them down during treatment , which overdosed to euthanise it , i pretty sure fish like human wants to go to afterlife in a proper state , rather then with a plummeted bleeding head ?


I think it has already been shown in animal slaughter that co2 poisoning is a horrible way to die! And while I'm sure clove oil can be used by an experienced hand to gently sedate a fish I have heard plenty of reports of fish seemingly becoming distressed before succumbing to it. If fish are intelligent enough to contemplate an afterlife then wow.
Would you let a fish starve to death rather than give it a quick death? 

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## JSeymour (12 Feb 2017)

The most humane method to euthanize is rapid destruction of the brain. This doesn't have to be gruesome. A toothpick can be used with a small fish, for large fish a paring knife will do. Because of the rapid death, very little blood is released. There is a slight spasm, but that is to be expected with any euthanasia that doesn't cause paralysis.

I do understand the child angle, but compassion toward another's pain, suffering, and fear will sometimes require a person to step out of their comfort zone. The right decision is not always the easiest to do.

The otherside of it, rapid destruction of the brain is likely the only legal method a hobbyist will have availble. Often the only other legal methods are with highly controlled and restricted drugs, such as MS-222. Your local laws may vary.


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## Annabellam (13 Feb 2017)

JSeymour said:


> The most humane method to euthanize is rapid destruction of the brain. This doesn't have to be gruesome. A toothpick can be used with a small fish, for large fish a paring knife will do. Because of the rapid death, very little blood is released. There is a slight spasm, but that is to be expected with any euthanasia that doesn't cause paralysis.
> 
> I do understand the child angle, but compassion toward another's pain, suffering, and fear will sometimes require a person to step out of their comfort zone. The right decision is not always the easiest to do.
> 
> The otherside of it, rapid destruction of the brain is likely the only legal method a hobbyist will have availble. Often the only other legal methods are with highly controlled and restricted drugs, such as MS-222. Your local laws may vary.



Interesting.  I did not know about this. Thanks.


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## limz_777 (16 Feb 2017)

Lindy said:


> I think it has already been shown in animal slaughter that co2 poisoning is a horrible way to die! And while I'm sure clove oil can be used by an experienced hand to gently sedate a fish I have heard plenty of reports of fish seemingly becoming distressed before succumbing to it. If fish are intelligent enough to contemplate an afterlife then wow.
> Would you let a fish starve to death rather than give it a quick death?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



Unfortunately I did lost some difficult species, which is chaca chaca catfish, true jaguar catfish and frog fish, which refused to eat at start, bought freshly from fish stores, not all species will do well, there no right or wrong way, do what you guys deem best to euthanized.


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## roadmaster (16 Feb 2017)

As long as it's quick.= O.K. IMHO
Off with the head is quickest, but in my younger year's I placed the fish in bag 1/2 full of water and froze them.
Didn't have to see any struggling that way.


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## alto (16 Feb 2017)

Please don't use a blunt object such as a "toothpick" to pith a fish (destruction of brain stem - btw placement is important) - this is NOT humane death "euthanasia"

I was resolutely not replying to this topic but the toothpick notion is too awful to ignore 

CO2 "euthanasia " of animals such as dogs, cats, livestock is not comparable to the process in fish - which has been studied as a method of euthanasia with published reports in veterinary & "fish" journals


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## Lindy (16 Feb 2017)

I found an interesting article in practical fish keeping on this very subject. I'd encourage anyone to read to full article but I screen shot a couple of clips.









The article covers several other methods and is worth a read.

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## three-fingers (16 Feb 2017)

Not a nice subject. There is no perfect way to euthanise IMO, it should always be an unpleasant thing for us to do and only used as a last resort to end incurable suffering.

Blunt trauma (or the brick method) is the fastest and most acceptable in my opinion. It should be done as fast as possible with no deliberating and will not be a nice experience for yourself.  It should never be easy to do IMO...

All other methods have too much margin for error or just make it easy for us without considering all the possibilities of what the fish could be perceiving.

Luckily it is very rare I have to euthanise anything nowadays...different story when I worked at an LFS .


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## andyone (16 Feb 2017)

Small fish (Tetra size) simply quick squeeze to the head between thumb and finger, instant and you can even do it in the tank if the fish is that far gone. Bigger fish sharp blow again to the head. Not a pleasant task but a kindness if the fish is suffering and I feel is part of the responsibility of anyone keeping a creature in captivity to avoid suffering.

Pity we can't apply it to ourselves if requested but that's just my personal opinion.


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## Madhav (17 Feb 2017)

Madhav said:


> it doesnt show any signs of laboured breathing. not eating at all.
> this is how it looks..
> how to catch it is another challenge as its a densly planted tank
> 
> ...


I started feeding fine powder tetra  food, this little fella managing to scoop through the falling bits and swallowing I believe. Still surviving and everything is nornal except its suspected broken jaw. It doesnt show any signs of stress. 

I know how stressful it is for the fish, now the question is shall I or shall I not?

My decision is to wait until it shows some stress before I take my big net and knife.

Any thoughts?

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## Lindy (17 Feb 2017)

Madhav said:


> I started feeding fine powder tetra  food, this little fella managing to scoop through the falling bits and swallowing I believe. Still surviving and everything is nornal except its suspected broken jaw. It doesnt show any signs of stress.
> 
> I know how stressful it is for the fish, now the question is shall I or shall I not?
> 
> ...


I would agree. My betta couldn't open her mouth so couldn't even get food by scoop. She was extremely thin and week. 

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## JSeymour (17 Feb 2017)

alto said:


> Please don't use a blunt object such as a "toothpick" to pith a fish (destruction of brain stem - btw placement is important) - this is NOT humane death "euthanasia"
> 
> I was resolutely not replying to this topic but the toothpick notion is too awful to ignore
> 
> CO2 "euthanasia " of animals such as dogs, cats, livestock is not comparable to the process in fish - which has been studied as a method of euthanasia with published reports in veterinary & "fish" journals


I'm not sure why you think it is awful. A toothpick is plenty large to cause total brain destruction in a small fish like a neon. Their brains are not that big.

CO2 is definitely considered cruel in many countries, and as I and others have stated, is illegal in many cases. CO2 dissolved in water creates carbonic acid. Until the fish suffocates, it will be stressed and suffering from the drastic pH shift. Remember, it take 3 minutes for the brain to die without O2. That's along time to suffer.


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## alto (18 Feb 2017)

Seems simple enough to use a sharp object rather than a blunt one 

I guess no knives or needles/pins available 

Topic title is "euthanasia" not "how to kill a fish" ... though a significant proportion of contributors seem to consider these equal statements 


 Curious if you've read the veterinary studies on fish euthanasia?


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## Lindy (18 Feb 2017)

Most of the fish I keep are less than 8cm long, the majority around 4-5 cm. The length of time and extra handling needed to immobilise a fish while I locate the right place to cut or poke would cause unnecessary stress. I haven't read veterinary papers on fish euthanasia but trust that using co2 was banned in the EU for good reasons ie causing pain. 

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## JSeymour (18 Feb 2017)

Madhav said:


> I started feeding fine powder tetra  food, this little fella managing to scoop through the falling bits and swallowing I believe. Still surviving and everything is nornal except its suspected broken jaw. It doesnt show any signs of stress.
> 
> I know how stressful it is for the fish, now the question is shall I or shall I not?
> 
> ...



If it's eating and seems to be enjoying life, let it live. If there comes a point it can't sustain itself and/or stops "normal", healthy rasbora behavior, then I'd think about euthanasia.

If that time comes, I highly recommend fast and complete destruction of the brain. Many people have given great suggestions. I'll give them my personal 'gore' rating for those who are squeamish or have young children. This can be done with your fingers in the net(minimal to moderate gore), a large heavy object(moderate to high gore level), an object can be inserted into the brain cavity large enough to cause COMPLETE destruction (minimal to slightly moderate gore), or a pharmaceutical, likely in the Caine drug family(no gore). The pharmaceuticals may be hard to obtain, best luck through an understanding veterinarian.

CO2 should not be used on fish. There are many legitimate reasons it is illegal in many modern countries. Using an overly small object to insert into the brain should also not be used either. If the fish is larger then say 7 cm, I wouldn't use a toothpick, a knife is better. Most aquarium fish will not require anything larger than a standard table knife. Please refrain from using a needle or pin. When I was going to school for veterinary medicine I was a TA for my biology profressor, and my job, once every semester, was to pith 1500 leopard frogs for dissection. This involves inserting a needle and scrambling the brain. I can tell you from experience, using a needle is a fine line between dead and paralyzed, expecially in a novices hands.

In your case, I'd wait a bit longer. You might be surprised with his resilience.


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## dw1305 (18 Feb 2017)

Hi all, 





JSeymour said:


> The pharmaceuticals may be hard to obtain,


That is one of the advantages of clove oil, it is widely obtainable as a treatment for tooth-ache etc.

cheers Darrel


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## JSeymour (19 Feb 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is one of the advantages of clove oil, it is widely obtainable as a treatment for tooth-ache etc.
> 
> cheers Darrel


As long as it is 85+% eugenol for proper dosage, according to the AVMA, clove oil is an acceptable method of euthanasia(dosed to 400 mg/L) for at least 10 minutes. The University of Texas recommends pithing afterwards to be sure the fish is not just anesthetized. So either way, you should be destroying the brain with an object.


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## Sianita (31 Mar 2017)

Madhav I had the exact same issue with 1 of my harelquins years ago! Just 1 out of 15 of them ended up with this and sadly it started wasting away so I put it out its misery with blunt force trauma.
I have never used clove oil before though.. What exactly do you do with it?


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## Madhav (31 Mar 2017)

Sianita said:


> Madhav I had the exact same issue with 1 of my harelquins years ago! Just 1 out of 15 of them ended up with this and sadly it started wasting away so I put it out its misery with blunt force trauma.
> I have never used clove oil before though.. What exactly do you do with it?


What a coincidence!! It passed away lastnight, saw its belly up this morning when I opened the lid to feed them.
I didnt do any thing just feed him fine powdered food two three times a day for him to scoop. Very resilient, survived very long in my opinion. RIP

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## Sianita (31 Mar 2017)

Aw I'm sorry to hear that. I honestly thought it was a one off as I had never seen or heard about the same thing happening to any fish let alone the same species!
It would be interesting to find out more about it and if it is just a harlequin thing or not.
Hopefully this is the only one like it was in my case. I had those fish for years! And had previously got them shipped from newcastle and they came fully grown so I am not sure what age they actually were.


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## dw1305 (31 Mar 2017)

Hi all, 





Sianita said:


> I have never used clove oil before though.. What exactly do you do with it?


You add it to water with the fish in it. 

Dosage is 400mg Clove Oil in 1litre of water. The fish should be sedated fairly rapidly and dead after 10 minutes without suffering. 

Boots sell 10ml (~8g) for ~£3.50.

cheers Darrel


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## Sianita (31 Mar 2017)

Thanks Darrel. I will keep this saved


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## alto (31 Mar 2017)

dw1305 said:


> The fish should be sedated fairly rapidly and dead after 10 minutes without suffering.


I've observed some strong adverse reactions to MS-222 & clove oil, even with proper preparation 
Larger fish may sedate with clove oil (& other anaesthetics) but begin to recover, so initial sedation, then pithing etc is recommended


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## alto (31 Mar 2017)

This is a decent (public access) summary article 

Fish Sedation, Anesthesia, Analgesia and Ethanasia: Considerations, Methods and Types of Drugs


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## azawaza (27 Aug 2018)

Is freezing in the refrigerator a good way? I had to do it once back when I first started on one Alexrodia riesei. Was an extremely unpleasant experience though.


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## Siege (27 Aug 2018)

azawaza said:


> Is freezing in the refrigerator a good way? I had to do it once back when I first started on one Alexrodia riesei. Was an extremely unpleasant experience though.



Have a read of a quite useful article published in PFK magazine. 

https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/blog/articles/painful-fish-deaths-you-might-be-guilty


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## zozo (27 Aug 2018)

azawaza said:


> Is freezing in the refrigerator a good way? I had to do it once back when I first started on one Alexrodia riesei. Was an extremely unpleasant experience though.



Not realy, it goes much to slow and probably very uncomfortable. Than throwing it with a hard smack on the floor  is a more instand and less suffering quick death.. Well how wever you do it, killing something is never a nice thing to do.. What do we know what a fish feels? We can't. When you catch a fish for dinner, than hitting it behind the eyes on the skull with a heavy stick is  adviced to kill it as fast as possible. For a small fish that aint an option..

Personaly if i see a fish beyond help (old age and showing weakness) i don't wait for it to die and also use clove oil, till now it always worked within minuts.
It looks like the most comfortable death also for the killer to do it.... But again what do we know about death and dying.. Zip!? We have to do it first, but nobody ever realy came back to tell. Anything near dead aint dead and wasnt dead..


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## BubblingUnder (27 Aug 2018)

Do the best you can & take comfort that whatever you do to despatch a fish it's passing will be easier than those caught on a trawler, gasping for air on the deck.


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## alto (27 Aug 2018)

I felt comfortable using clove oil (small tetras etc)
UNTIL 
I needed to euthanize several Paracyprichromis nigripinnis ranging in size from 6-10 cm, subadult so not as substantial as the profile pictured fish
Though these fish had been extremely listless in the tank & container (tank water with air pump for current), when I added the diluted clove oil, they panicked & thrashed as if in agony ... slowly subsiding into unconsciousness 
(then transferred to freezer as it’s difficult to ensure death with clove oil with larger fish)


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## rebel (28 Aug 2018)

We had a recent talk by a Vet who suggested clove oil or for small tropicals, sudden cold plunge ie ice water.


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## Edvet (28 Aug 2018)

Best way would be crushing/decapitation with brain destruction.


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