# HELP!



## Tucker90 (29 Jan 2019)

So I’ve restored and strengthened (I can stand on top of it and weigh 95kg) this tall boy ready for my tank, 







I live in a 200 cottage with what I thought were fairly level floors, they are not, by a long shot...

Can I use self levelling legs? Shall I just buy a proper unit?! Or should I avoid it at all costs and find somewhere else for the tank on level floors? 




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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (29 Jan 2019)

Would you be willing to shorten the required legs of the unit? You could shorten them all to level out again should you need to?


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## Siege (29 Jan 2019)

Looks fantastic!

You could use shims or piece of wood under the uneven legs. I’m rubbsh at diy but can you get screw in levelling feet?

Even if you buy a ready made stand, most wont come with self levelling legs. Perhaps a simple mod to what you have made would be good?


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## Tucker90 (29 Jan 2019)

Siege said:


> Looks fantastic!
> 
> You could use shims or piece of wood under the uneven legs. I’m rubbsh at diy but can you get screw in levelling feet?
> 
> Even if you buy a ready made stand, most wont come with self levelling legs. Perhaps a simple mod to what you have made would be good?



Thanks! Took quite a bit of doing! Yeah they are two possibilities! Not sure how stable it’d be! 




Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Would you be willing to shorten the required legs of the unit? You could shorten them all to level out again should you need to?



That was my first thought I can do it easily! Would just be worried how accurate I could actually get it! 


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## Siege (29 Jan 2019)

At AG the floors are a nightmare, we have plastic shim things under just about all the tanks!


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## oscarlloydjohn (29 Jan 2019)

I use small wooden shims under my stands, since our house is victorian and nowhere near level


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (29 Jan 2019)

Do you have any of those felt pads for going under furniture legs... that might help smooth out small inaccuracies...


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## Tucker90 (29 Jan 2019)

oscarlloydjohn said:


> I use small wooden shims under my stands, since our house is victorian and nowhere near level



Sounds similar! Don’t suppose you have a picture for reference?!? Or explain how you’ve done it?! 




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## Tucker90 (29 Jan 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Do you have any of those felt pads for going under furniture legs... that might help smooth out small inaccuracies...



I’ve got a fair bit of height to play with! We’re talking half an inch, but finishing with some of these will work a treat! Thanks 


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## Tucker90 (29 Jan 2019)

Siege said:


> At AG the floors are a nightmare, we have plastic shim things under just about all the tanks!



Sounds good! I’ve got about half an inch to take care of! Think I’ll be able to do it?! 


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## jagillham (29 Jan 2019)

Plywood is good, strong and won't slip or buckle. Problem is that's not going to look great!

Where you've set it up, hows the level from front left to front right? Adjustment at the back certainly easier without being unsightly.


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## Kalum (29 Jan 2019)

I'd definitely go for hard wood or plastic shims, less chance of settling or compacting over time than fibres

Or get the wood planer out


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## Keith GH (30 Jan 2019)

Tucker 

The only way is to pack under the legs to get it the best you can.   To get it perfect You can use wedges.  Two wedges over lap and as you tap the ends it will lift the unit up.



 

To make every thing safe I strongly suggest you use a 10-20mm Polystyrene foam under the tank not only will it help with any twisting and floor movement it will stop any floor vibrations for the tank.

Keith


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

jagillham said:


> Plywood is good, strong and won't slip or buckle. Problem is that's not going to look great!
> 
> Where you've set it up, hows the level from front left to front right? Adjustment at the back certainly easier without being unsightly.



Unfortunately it’s dipping at the front, so it will look unsightly! I think I need to get the planer out 


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

Keith GH said:


> Tucker
> 
> The only way is to pack under the legs to get it the best you can.   To get it perfect You can use wedges.  Two wedges over lap and as you tap the ends it will lift the unit up.
> 
> ...



Thanks Keith! 

I have got some 10mm foam ready, that was always in the plan as there will be some vibrations due to it been on a wooden floor! 


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

Kalum said:


> I'd definitely go for hard wood or plastic shims, less chance of settling or compacting over time than fibres
> 
> Or get the wood planer out



The planer will be coming out this week! 

I’ve ordered some plastic shims from screwfix! Will take the majority down with the planer the fine adjust with the shims! 




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## jagillham (30 Jan 2019)

Tucker90 said:


> Unfortunately it’s dipping at the front, so it will look unsightly! I think I need to get the planer out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If it’s OK left to right, then leaning forwards is not too bad, you can shorten the rear legs.

I’d mark the floor so you know exactly where the feet go each time you adjust. If using wedges, make sure they have grip on them to prevent spreading, the ones used to space laminate flooring from walls normally do. However any wedge could imprint on your floor, particularly if has smaller ‘footprint’ than the legs.


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

jagillham said:


> If it’s OK left to right, then leaning forwards is not too bad, you can shorten the rear legs.
> 
> I’d mark the floor so you know exactly where the feet go each time you adjust. If using wedges, make sure they have grip on them to prevent spreading, the ones used to space laminate flooring from walls normally do. However any wedge could imprint on your floor, particularly if has smaller ‘footprint’ than the legs.



The floor is well over 100 years old, and has more marks, scuffs and scratches than I can count so that’s not a problem! 

I’m going to shave the back legs down, then add some felt furniture pads to take away any inaccuracies.

I will also have some foam for the tank to sit on so they will hopefully absorb any vibrations! 

It’s only 50L tank, plus 20kg of stone... what’s the worse that could happen 

Thanks for your help! And thanks to everyone else for their input! 

Will update when I’ve done said modifications! 




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## Andrew Butler (30 Jan 2019)

Tucker90 said:


> So I’ve restored and strengthened (I can stand on top of it and weigh 95kg) this tall boy ready for my tank


Unsure how big the aquarium is but just remember it's not just the weight of the water but also the weight of the glass aquarium itself, also remember over time weighty objects have an effect on things, especially if the weight is more direct like with the legs.
What I would be most concerned about is the leg circled in red; from what I can see in the photo there seems to be a joists running roughly where the red lines are (I'm sure there will also be one near the wall assuming it's an original stone one) this leg is also near to the edge of the board. If you have a cellar or access underneath you can inspect the board to make sure it is square easily enough and you could also add some noggins to reinforce things; some old floor boards are not square at the edges so have maybe half the thickness. Unsure about the other legs and this is only assuming my red lines are showing joists - looked like nails!



Tucker90 said:


> The planer will be coming out this week!


Unsure of your DIY skill set but planing the end grain of the wood is always a risky business; especially if it as an electric one!
Regardless of how you go about things it's always worth heavily scoring the wood with a sharp stanley blade to try and prevent splintering before planing.



Keith GH said:


> The only way is to pack under the legs to get it the best you can. To get it perfect You can use wedges. Two wedges over lap and as you tap the ends it will lift the unit up.


Good method using folding wedges



Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Do you have any of those felt pads for going under furniture legs... that might help smooth out small inaccuracies...


Just be careful with these; if using a few stacked up they can compress over time, especially stacked up one on top of the other.

The way I would do things:
I would think about getting the cabinet in exactly the position you intend, maybe even mark this position with masking tape under the legs as move it an inch or two could completely change things.
When it's in it's final position put the aquarium on the top and fill it with a couple of inches of water then you can use this to help you get the cabinet level - water is the oldest and still best levelling method,
with some small packing pieces of anything solid pack the cabinet so the measurement from the top of the tank to the waterline is the same all of the way around then you know it's level.
measure the largest gap you have between the floor and the bottom of a leg and then find something you can use to then mark this measurement on all of the legs. an offcut of thin wood maybe.
If you can use this measuring gauge to go around each leg and mark each leg; on all 4 sides if possible as floorboards rarely sit flat and it is doubtful these measurements are square either.
Whichever way you choose to trim the ends I would recommend using a sharp stanley blade.
if they are only small amounts I would consider seeing if you have access to a belt sander, for larger amounts trim them with a saw first then sand like above.
Give the edges a quick sand off.
I'd consider putting some felt wedges under like @Matt @ ScapeEasy suggests but only after you have trimmed the legs and look for ones that are almost as big as the legs else you are further narrowing the force
Put the aquarium back in exactly the same place as where you marked it.


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## Keith GH (30 Jan 2019)

Tucker

I am speaking as a Cabinet Maker 10 years then taught the trade at for 26 years.



Tucker90 said:


> I’m going to shave the back legs down, then add some felt furniture pads to take away any inaccuracies



Keep in mind if you ever shift that cabinet you will have to re level the legs all over again.

Not seeing the underneath of the cabinet I would be thinking of removing the legs and rails and making a Plinth and levelling that up its far easier to do.

Keith


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## Andrew Butler (30 Jan 2019)

I completely agree with @Keith GH about making a base; that would then overcome the problems about load distribution and level in one (assuming your cabinet is flat and no difference of heights in each corner).
I nearly suggested that but didn't think you would entertain the idea.
Coming from the trade myself there are nearly always more than one way to skin a cat!


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

Keith GH said:


> Tucker
> 
> I am speaking as a Cabinet Maker 10 years then taught the trade at for 26 years.
> 
> ...



Thanks Keith! I had taken this into consideration, I am happy to take the legs down further if/when I do move the tank, that’s not an issue. The plinth would be a good suggestion though! The legs run all the way to the top of the unit so taking them off wouldn’t cause any issues! 

Thanks for the advice!! 



Andrew Butler said:


> Unsure how big the aquarium is but just remember it's not just the weight of the water but also the weight of the glass aquarium itself,



Thank you for your reply!! Really good perspective! 

The aquarium is 50L plus 20kg of stone, plus glass I would say it weighs approx 80kg.

The cabinet is very sturdy, I have added 1x1 skeleton inside with metal angle brackets at pretty much every join in the unit. 

As for the floor, 

The timbers are around 2”x10” oak, you are correct they are not square. This is in my living room on the 1st floor not the ground floor, you are correct l, there are 4”x4” joists running in the positions you marked out. 

As for the planer, I will actually probably use a tennon saw for that very reason, my DIY skills, I would say, are better than average... I was a plumber and builder for 6 years before I went into the aerospace industry 9 years ago. So I have the skills to put my hand to anything within reason, even if I do hate joinery!!

With regards to the felt pads. There would only be one placed on each leg! Stacking them would definitely not work!! 

I think your method is going to work the best, sit the aquarium down, pack it with measurable shims (acting as feeling gauges if you like) then once I know the measuring of each leg, take a saw to them, sand them level apply a felt pad and keep my fingers crossed! 

Thank you to everyone again! Really appreciate it and just shows how good this forum really is! 

Thom 


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## Tucker90 (30 Jan 2019)

I will have a serious look into making a plinth, thinking about the load distribution, it might work better! 

Would 18mm MDF (sealed and painted) be strong enough? 


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## ian_m (30 Jan 2019)

Two things spring to mind with your "stand".
- I would not use those legs for support the unit with tank. My mate had something similar 120litre tank on set of drawers on 4 legs and one of the rear legs started collapsing, pushed through and splitting the bottom sheet of wood. The upper surface of the unit "bowed" down in rear corner causing the tank silicone to tear on opposite corners. Building a proper fish tank stand sorted that.
- Your floor is bound to be uneven so thought needs to be applied. I assume the floor is strong enough ?

I would remove the legs and go with the ladder frame base, made from NOT MDF, maybe 18mm-25mm marine plywood or just plain timber. Keith maybe could advise. It maybe that this frame base could go straight on the floor, no wedges or leveling need.


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## Andrew Butler (30 Jan 2019)

Tucker90 said:


> my DIY skills, I would say, are better than average... I was a plumber and builder for 6 years


You never know quite a persons skill-set on here so don't take any explanation as insulting; it sometimes helps other people without the knowledge too.



Tucker90 said:


> The aquarium is 50L plus 20kg of stone, plus glass I would say it weighs approx 80kg


Remember stone will displace some water.



Tucker90 said:


> The cabinet is very sturdy, I have added 1x1 skeleton inside with metal angle brackets at pretty much every join in the unit.





Tucker90 said:


> The legs run all the way to the top of the unit so taking them off wouldn’t cause any issues!


I wouldn't want to comment on the construction of the unit or its suitability without looking at at in person but @ian_m does rightly point out there could be issues.



Tucker90 said:


> you are correct they are not square


The bottom of the floorboards you mean?

Unsure of your plans for the future; maybe you would want to replace it with a bigger aquarium in time?
Another suggestion which is *very* different but might suit as the tallboy only seems to be painted aside from the top would be to build a unit into the corner where you could build a firm and supportive base picking up the joists, levelling things up there and putting a custom unit on top. If you want to tart it up then use a solid piece of kitchen worktop for the top that matches the look of your house and isn't as expensive as you might think.
First picture is of the first example I found on google to give you an idea of what I mean but of course you could easily extend the left hand side to project further out and completely ignore the top part
Second picture is of the mine just to show the bottom detail which I think may work better for you. All of the support is hidden behind the skirting, skirting goes across and hides everything, looks more built in.
I've used solid oak worktop as the uprights too then just some painted MDF doors on simple cabinet hinges. Base was built out of CLS so cheap enough.
If you have any further questions on this please ask


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## Tucker90 (2 Feb 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> You never know quite a persons skill-set on here so don't take any explanation as insulting; it sometimes helps other people without the knowledge too.




Sorry for the late reply! 

Absolutely no offence taken! You don’t know me from Adam so it’s always safe to assume the worst!! 

Your built in unit looks lovely! Tidy job! I like the work top! I have a 3 meter length of engineered oak in the garage from when I did my kitchen! Was saving it for a rainy day 

But this won’t be it. 

I have come to a bit of a stop with this tank, and may well be in the state until we move house in the summer.

My plan was to cut the legs off the tall boy to distribute the weight, and as I’ve seen on another thread in this forum from 2016, level a sheet of 18mm marine ply first and sit the cabinet on top! (Stole this  drawing from that thread! Not my art work ) 





However, when I have come to measure up I have noticed two things which are disheartening. 

1, the gap (front to back) I need to raise it by is the best part of an inch. Which I think is far too much. 

2. (The worst) while moving around in the room, I noticed that even treading reasonably carefully, the vibrations that travel through the floor will inevitably be too much, I can physically see the leaves on a monstera (where the tank would sit) shake. 

Adding a fish tank into the equation on top of a tall cabinet that is held level with many, many wedges just isn’t worth the risk. 

So, I have gone back to communications with the boss to see where I can have a tank! 

It looks like the dogs will have a new bed location hopefully and then the tank can sit on a 240 year old quarry tile floor, with no risk! 


Thanks again for all your time, advice and information! It’s really appreciated. I guess a living room tank just wasn’t meant to be!

Thom 








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## Keith GH (3 Feb 2019)

Thom

Many starting out with Aquariums pay no attention to floor levels or floor vibrations.

No matter where you place the cabinet it looks like an un even floor and vibrations.

Having a good rethink it looks like you will have to remove the legs.  Make a plinth to a perfect level.   To give you a better level and more vibration silicone a strip of rubber on the base edges of your plinth for more protection On top of that a 20mm + Polystyrene  sheet.   The edges can be hidden by Silicone a thin strip of black rubber.   

I built a large wall unit and I had to shape the plinth to the floor (I had slate tiles) then silicone a rubber strip to the plinth as well.

Keith


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## Andrew Butler (3 Feb 2019)

Tucker90 said:


> Absolutely no offence taken! You don’t know me from Adam so it’s always safe to assume the worst!!
> 
> Your built in unit looks lovely! Tidy job! I like the work top! I have a 3 meter length of engineered oak in the garage from when I did my kitchen! Was saving it for a rainy day
> 
> ...


Thanks, I just think if you have half a skill with carpentry/joinery then engineered kitchen worktop can make you a cabinet for the same price as a chipboard one in many cases.
I just chose to fit mine into a corner and not to suit the aquarium for size.

If you're moving house probably best to just wait then and hopefully the boss will give you a nice slot to put something more permanent.


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## Tucker90 (13 Feb 2019)

Just thought I’d update this! Not quite finished yet, need to get the belt sander out and clean up the edges (cabinet not quite square) before filling and painting the bottom! 

I will also be adding a “skirting board” to the bottom to hide the legs. 

These legs are M10 thread, rated to 100kg each, they only came in packs of 4 so I bought 8. Overkill, I know. 









Excuse the state of my workshop. It’s how a proper workshop should be. Organised chaos. 

Thanks 


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## Keith GH (14 Feb 2019)

Tucker 

That will certainly level it off only thing now is to set it up with a good length Spirit Level.

Keith


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## Tucker90 (14 Feb 2019)

Keith GH said:


> Tucker
> 
> That will certainly level it off only thing now is to set it up with a good length Spirit Level.
> 
> Keith



I know! I’m dreading it! 

But I have a cunning plan! 

I’m just going to level the sheet of ply, 

I haven’t glued it yet, so I will remove it, level the ply, lock all the legs off, then glue and reattached the ply to the unit. Then fine tune! 

I think it’ll be easier than trying with the unit attached!


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## Keith GH (14 Feb 2019)

Tucker 
All that does not sound easy.
How are you going to adjust those legs (for a better name) there are legs made especially to do that job.

Gluing think twice once its glued its going be a job and a half to get it off.

Going back a few steps I would still prefer a Plinth base.  I use that on a very large wall and cabinet unit that has doors and drawers and it worked perfect. I also glued a thin rubber strip to take up and discrepancies.

If you require any of the finer details how I made the base please let me know.

Keep in mind I taught the Cabinet Making trade for 26 years 

Keith


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## Andrew Butler (14 Feb 2019)

Hey Tucker,
Those legs will only primarily take the weight from directly above so the only 4 that are really going to be doing much are the corner 4 and maybe the back, therefore they will also still focus the load where the 4 corner legs were before.
*the ply will help redistribute load but the effect will be very minimal.

No matter how level you are to get the piece of ply, who says that cabinet is 100% parallel?
It would only take a few screws to hold the cabinet in place and you have easy enough access and they would be hidden once the drawers are in.
Assuming the cabinet was parallel, no matter what anyone says 99.9% of spirit levels have a slight discrepancy and it only takes it to be dropped or banged once to do this.

Sure get it roughly level but your aquarium on top is whats seen so use that for the levelling device fine tuner.
Unsure quite how long the legs are but if you use them you can hopefully still get in with a couple of spanners to do this.

Im still unsure if the cabinets upto the job also.

Just my views.



Keith GH said:


> there are legs made especially to do that job.


Just seen your post Keith, these are great legs when used in the correct situation if you havent come across them before and with extra locking nut ensure they don't move.


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## Keith GH (15 Feb 2019)

Andrew



Andrew Butler said:


> Just seen your post Keith, these are great legs when used in the correct situation if you havent come across them before and with extra locking nut ensure they don't move.



They are often used when getting,  Washing Machines, Refrigerators and Freezers level .   

Keith


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## Andrew Butler (15 Feb 2019)

Keith GH said:


> They are often used when getting, Washing Machines, Refrigerators and Freezers level


I used them on my marine aquarium framework; although that was made from metal.
Used lots over here when accuracy is needed with high loads and you can lock them off in place with a 'back nut'


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## Tucker90 (17 Feb 2019)

Keith GH said:


> Tucker
> All that does not sound easy.
> How are you going to adjust those legs (for a better name) there are legs made especially to do that job.
> 
> ...




Hi Keith, 

The legs are threaded, so are the nuts drilled into the ply, therefore you can adjust the height easily by winding them in and out then locking them in place with 2 nuts! 

I have literally cut the legs off this unit, I will be sanding the ply down to match the units profile, filling in any gaps and painting it the same colour so gluing the ply onto it won’t really matter once I know it’s right! As it will not be coming off again! 

With this particular unit and on the floor it’s going on, I don’t think I have the right skill set to make a plinth! 

The floor isn’t just uneven in one direction but in all directions ranging from 1/4” to over an inch! So these legs are perfect for the task! 




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## Tucker90 (17 Feb 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> Hey Tucker,
> Those legs will only primarily take the weight from directly above so the only 4 that are really going to be doing much are the corner 4 and maybe the back, therefore they will also still focus the load where the 4 corner legs were before.
> *the ply will help redistribute load but the effect will be very minimal.
> 
> ...



I can’t see how if 8 legs are on the floor and taking weight, that only 4 legs will be taking all the weight, obviously, there will be a “sag” in the ply and I would agree a larger percentage of weight would be in the corners but the other legs will be distributing the load. 

Of course the unit isn’t square! I would have always attached the cabinet and re-levelled using some water in the tank,  but with the floor been as un-level as it is, it would have been a b*****d to level with the unit on. 

The legs are 70mm long, the rear legs will only be poking out around 10 mom while some of the front ones will be 25m-30m I will be taking the angle grinder to them one once I have it in the ball park level! 

I have a large array of spanner’s I have angrily ground down in the Past to get into awkward spots on the bike so won’t be an issue! 

As for the cabinet, if my 95kg fat blahblahblahblah can’t stand and wriggle with little to no movement/cracking/squeaking/ falling to bits, the tank will be fine.

It has more angle iron, screws and braces than I care to mention and is glued to within an inch of its life. Holding the weight is not a probable! 

  Just getting the bugger square was! 


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