# What happened to JamesC



## Amoeba

Does anybody know if JamesC (www.theplantedtank.co.uk) is still in the hobby?


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## dw1305

Hi all, 
I spoke to him a while ago, but not recently. 

He had become very frustrated with some of the "bullying" on the forum, and chose to withdraw. 

I think it is a shame as we are (possibly) a bit of a broader church (and more friendly) now, and he had a lot of useful insights to offer. 

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish

I must admit I have receded back into my shell a bit over the last year, it seems that experience don't mean much these days!
You can see folk come and go like the wind, baffled & bombarded by quotes from the Barr report & other sources, for the average guy wanting a bit of friendly advice, that can be a bit OTT!
It just seems some members actively look for opportunity's so they can upset the cart & have a good argument!


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## Edvet

I just retract from a post where my views are obviously not shared, unfollow it, and look for other posts. But hey, what do i know


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## Tim Harrison

It seems, more often than not, the questions and resulting arguments have also been asked/had before...which aside from being unnecessary isn't always helpful...particularly when myths that we thought long dead and buried become resurrected again...

I think perhaps James O had a point a while ago about not being able to post until the would-be poster had signed a sworn affidavit to the effect of...

'_I hereby swear I have made a strenuous effort to discover if my question has been asked before by correctly using the UKAPS search function, or Google with UKAPS tagged on the end of my search criteria, before posting - so help me God...'_

Or some secular oath like_...'may my plants all wither and die and my tank fall apart at the seams...'_


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## alto

One of the shrimp forums had this rule - it was great for keeping the forum bog-free, it was also very effective at dissuading new members, new discussions ... anyone that broke the rule (I believe it ran like baseball) was OUT     but banned for eternity (unlike baseball).
That forum is mostly just a memory now ...

Perhaps a *Beginner Zone* would be an option, anyone that finds these sorts of new posters (the sort that just want a fast answer & don't want to wade through loads of posts/threads looking for the range of answers that best suit their query) unappealing, can just avoid this section (like the plague )   

While I agree that many queries are in their 100th or 1000th repetition, for the newcomer to the hobby, this is often not apparent or they aren't great readers or they lack the skills to decipher which reply variation most applies to their unique situation ...  
In the last months I've received a few _So Long, and *Thanks for All the Fish *_pm's from new posters who felt unwelcomed to ukaps - it takes courage to post photos/journals/excited ramblings of your new venture - and this saddens me.


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## parotet

alto said:


> While I agree that many queries are in their 100th or 1000th repetition, for the newcomer to the hobby, this is often not apparent


After 2 years in UKAPS I still discover interesting things. The information stored here is huge and TBH, I am subscribed to other forums in my country, and I can tell you that the information in this forum is excellent (both experience share and scientific level). 



Edvet said:


> I just retract from a post where my views are obviously not shared, unfollow it


That's something I am learning now... take a deep breath, keep calm and don't post!!! Just unsubscribe 

But again, this a very friendly forum, and bullying is an isolated situation IMO

Jordi


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## Tim Harrison

Me too...and I also think for the most part this is a very friendly forum too, but I also agree it is still sad that some folk feel unwelcome, although I suppose the flip side is you can't please everyone all the time.


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## Andy D

Let me just say that I love the forum.

However the feedback that I get from people on other forums/Facebook groups is that is comes across as quite elitist. 

One thing that stands out to me is the lack of a simple hello when people introduce themselves. This would go a long way to making new members feel welcome. Especially if this comes from long standing members whose many posts these people may have already read.


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## X3NiTH

alto said:


> it takes courage to post photos/journals/excited ramblings of your new venture.......



Especially so for when it all goes Pete Tong!


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## Edvet

Andy D said:


> comes across as quite elitist


maybe that has to do 1) with people not using search engines 2) people having the same problems  every time, it's hard not to get jaded by these


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## parotet

Andy D said:


> One thing that stands out to me is the lack of a simple hello when people introduce themselves. This would go a long way to making new members feel welcome. Especially if this comes from long standing members whose many posts these people may have already read.


Never thought this was so important, I didn't introduce myself when I joined UKAPS... Well, from on now I'll say welcome, not really too much effort if it helps 

Jordi


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## Andy D

parotet said:


> Never thought this was so important, I didn't introduce myself when I joined UKAPS... Well, from on now I'll say welcome, not really too much effort if it helps
> 
> Jordi



But think how some may feel when they have introduced themselves to be met with silence.


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## Lindy

People can be very sensitive. Personally I don't really care that most of my journal updates are uncommented upon. I like to be able to see the journey my tanks have taken. 
It is quite a male dominated forum  but again that doesn't bother me, boys do like their toys and there is nothing like complex, programmable, megawatt lighting units to get them slavering. I do find the long winded arguments tiresome but just avoid them. I was surprised when someone told me, the otherday, that there was TOO much info on ukaps. I'm like, how can you have too much? 

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## Amoeba

Wow 
I have not intended to trigger that sort of discussion, but glad to hear that he might still be in the hobby 



dw1305 said:


> He had become very frustrated with some of the "bullying" on the forum, and chose to withdraw.


I know what you mean. Some folks take our hobby too seriously


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## GHNelson

Hi
The moderator on duty should welcome all new members and guide him/her to the revelvant section of the forum where need be!
hoggie


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## Edvet

hogan53 said:


> moderator on duty


We have those??


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## PARAGUAY

I think it is a shame if a person leaves the forum for reasons discussed.It did make me feel welcomed getting a like or two when I joined .Difference of opinions?,questioning a theory? asking a question first?. Why not. Members can always point someone somewhere if need be later ie tutorials,Practical  Fishkeeping.Tom Barr( who ,incidentley has discussed  thousands of posts on the Barr report and generous enough to credit people who laid the groundwork to the water column and EI),Diana Walstead,Amano.eys tc I think possibly some new members and like myself  dont  always want the scientific jargon and prefer to ask a question first.New members can have different levels of expertise a complete new enthuisast possibly just seen a Amano aquascape.or a mix of high end Aqua scapers.The former want to ask a question first


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## LondonDragon

Edvet said:


> We have those??


These still lurk here in the shadows of Mordor  every so often I look at the Intro forum and place a like on every new post, and if the thread is on 0 post I will always post the first if necessary.

Mind you this forum is actually kind of moderates itself, there are regular members that keep things is check and there is little need for mods to intervene, there are those that like the simplistic answers, just had a bit of this and a bit of that and it will work but don't really care how it works, and then there are those that like to take it to the extreme with scientific or even alien proof that what you are doing is actually the best way of doing it.

End of the day you don't have to get too much into it or understand the science behind it, if you have the time and want to be that thorough about it fine, but all you need to know is that plants need ferts, CO2, good flow and some decent light, and depending on the plants and plant mass you have in your tank you have to try and get a balance between these, that you will learn as you go along and make mistakes and correct these mistakes, every tank is different and you need to adjust.

I am not sure about the "elitist" branding, we are just a community formed of every type of member from all walks of life, I myself like the low budget DIY tanks and ran my Rio 125 for like 6-7 years on plain gravel, every one has a budget and you can get results no matter what that is. It is easy to feel under achieve when you see some of the members posting some great aquascapes and feeling low parred in comparison and afraid to show your tank. Shame a lot of the photos on my Rio journal have gone due to some crap hosting company, as it was a great example how you learn as you go along.

What I see is beginners trying to get award winning aquascapes within a few months after they start the hobby, start low tech with nice and easy plants, then start learning how to dose, add CO2 and try a few more plants in the medium area, once you have mastered that, had more flow if you need it, then up the lights and master the difficult plants. Once you have mastered that then start playing with hardscape and start creating some proper aquascapes.

If you just starting and go for the ultimate setup with all the bells and whistles does not mean you will get great results, you have not yet learn the basics so you have no room for error, then people will put everything up for sale and leave the hobby which is discouraging to other beginners.

I have my eyes on all of you remember that


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## Edvet

LondonDragon said:


> I have my eyes on all of you remember that


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## Martin in Holland

LondonDragon said:


> I have my eyes on all of you remember that


Big brother is watching .....me?


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## Pedro Rosa

I personally spend some time preparing my Journals (specially photos) but I do it because UKAPS it's a very friendly forum and we can get back a lot from it.
This doesn't mean that is friendly because everyone says very good of your layouts, plants, etc, but because every ideia is usually backed up decently by some justification.
Have to say that I learned quite a lot here and I'm willing to help giving back at least a small part of what was I had.

In all these years there was only one time i spoke almost freely of what i thought because it was too much... but even today (one or 2 months after) i don't really know if that was right! I agree that the part where we "unsubscribe" from a thread for not following it more is the right thing to do.

Pedro.


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## genomecop

Probably one of the friendliest forums I frequent. I visit at least once a day and read all the new posts. Lots of information here. I don't even have a tank! but I've read so much here I think I could go out today, get my equipment and have a successful setup. There's no reason for me to have an argument with someone here. I just pick and choose what I want to learn and what I believe will apply to me. Great place.


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## AndyMcD

I agree with genomecop. 

I get a lot of enjoyment from reading about what you should do (and what can go wrong) and this forum is great for learning from the experts and other beginners.

Like many people, I 'lurked' for a long time before having the courage to post something. It is a friendly forum, but it is difficult to know if something has been covered elsewhere.

Personally, I think a beginners section which tried to pull together some of the following would be very well read (though you may get few replies from lurkers). It may also reduce beginners posting the same questions, which has to be frustrating to the experts, but to be fair, you do have to read quite a few posts to get to the real nuggets:
- Most well read threads (e.g. fire extinguisher CO2 system)
- Important and interesting threads (Darrel has suggested a few)
- Experts top tips (get to 1000 posts and receive an invite to share your five key tips)

There are certain points that don't seem to get covered, which I would have thought are key, but they seem so low level that people may be embaressed to ask:
- best way to feed your fish - how much, what type, filter on or off (can have big impact on water quality and algae)
- should you transfer plants from an algae infested tank when you upgrade (best way to prepare them)
- best way to upgrade (transfer some substrate for beneficial bacteria, running filters in parallel)

These are points that will have been covered on this forum, but difficult to find. Beginners may be too nervous to ask.

I have some thoughts on what may be causing BBA outbreaks, but I feel I've got to build a cast iron argument before I say anything!!! The forum can be challenging at times.

This is a wonderful forum. I used to get very stressed with work. I couldn't switch off as things would prey on mind. Forums such as this has allowed me to divert my mind onto something completely different. It is very much appreciated.


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## Lindy

Good Points AndyMcD!


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## Martin in Holland

Personally I find this forum to have very helpful and patient members, after getting to know some persons knowledge better you learn which ones to listen to at all times and take notice of other comments.
I'm happy to help anyone, if I can, I won't comment on something I have no idea about or only limited knowledge of, I leave that to the experts here. I'm still feel like a newcomer in the hobby (even after 4 years), learned alot and had great help in the past, if I can pas on my limited knowledge I don't mind answering the same questions over and over again (for now ), for new comers it's often difficult to find an answer in a previous topic, you want to know what to do in your "specific" case and the first reaction is to ask, I think this is what a forum is all about and this forum is by far the most helpful I found.


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## LondonDragon

Martin in China said:


> I think this is what a forum is all about and this forum is by far the most helpful I found.


I have to agree, I remember when I first joined UKAPS and had no idea what to expect here, had been a member of a Portuguese forum for about a year but found it difficult there at times, when joined UKAPS I started a journal and was instantly given lots of help and guidance.

Lurked around quite a bit and posted far to much that at one stage was offered the Moderator role, I used to run a few forums at the time and also the LFKC forum (still admin there), when the person in question in the title of this post decided to part ways, I offered to assist while a replacement Admin was found, well its been a while 

Since then the forum was moved to a new host which was challenging enough, then due to the growing size of the forum we moved to a dedicated server and eventually we migrated to Xenforo (this was the biggest challenge) for the new look the forum as now.

Due to concentrating a lot more on the job side over the last few years, I haven't had much time for the hobby, but still glance a lot of posts specially in the intro and journals sections not much time to read them all and comment on them but do place likes on all the good updates, and I am the one posting the journals in the FB page 

AndyMcD has made some good points, but there is nothing stopping anyone from creating a thread titled "Beginners read first" and then create some headers on that topic and post links to relevant posts, which then we will pin at the top of the forum and when someone asks a question that's already been cover in detail you can just say "have you read this post?".

Can even start a thread first with "Suggestion links for 'Beginners read first' topic" so when someone reads something they think is useful then can then suggest it and we add it to the topic, just an idea which anyone/more than one can do, you guys are the ones that read the forum for information and have come across great posts that have helped you, so you are in a better position to determine what has been useful in achieving your results.

One of the reasons I have kept the UKAPS FB page up to date is so we have a great place in the photos section which only includes photos and links to the UKAPS Forum, this becomes a nice gallery for members to go over https://www.facebook.com/ukaps.org/photos_stream for inspiration and has links to all the relevant journals for you to read, We do have sections on the forum for this, once a journal is complete the member should post a final photo in the "Planted Tank Gallery" with a link to the journal, but no one does this, hence the FB gallery.

This is a forum for everyone, top aquascapers and beginners alike and no one should be afraid to post their work for some guidance and critiques. What people have to remember is that once we were all clueless and needed help and now if you can please just assists those in their journey. Don't start bombarding them with scientific reasons (unless they ask), because this will most likely scare them away and a lot of people to be honest are not interested.

Been told many times that UKAPS is a great source of knowledge for the hobby and probably the best aquatic plant forum, at least in the english language and that people are generally friendly, but at the end of the day not every one agrees with anything 100% (not just the hobby) and should try and avoid confrontations, at the end of the day just respect other people opinions, all the methods work, from IE to commercially available fertilizers, you just have to find what works for you and stick with that, also everyone has a budget and cannot justify high end ADA fertilizers for example.

Happy plant growing first  the aquascaping comes later


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## AndyMcD

I think this is a wonderful forum and I greatly admire both the people who are willing to give their time to make all of this possible and the experts who are willing to give so much valuable advice. I work in systems and appreciate the amount of work that will have to go into make this forum work. 

Also, I think Martin is correct when he says that the great strength of a forum is the ability to ask a question (that may have been asked many times before) and great advice comes back.

I made my comments as much out of concern for the amount of time the experts must have to give. I wondered if a Beginners section may help to reduce this workload.

If I was more experienced, I'd start the Beginners section. However, I'm still very much learning the basics myself.


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## 5678

As a relative newbie I'll offer my thoughts too... 

I rushed back into "fish keeping" and then started to read up more and more. I had seen beautiful Iwagumi tank photos and wanted to do something similar. Obviously, without knowing what I was doing this was a disaster! 
I found both the PFK forum and UKAPS, reading both taught me how there are two very different approaches to the philosophy of running a healthy aquarium! I read more and more and decided that a planted tank was what I wanted. I lurked for a while reading and learning and started posting here and there. 

Personally, I've never found anyone to be elitist or aggressive in their replies. I can completely understand the newbie journal threads can be quieter with the masterpieces getting more attention. 
I have noticed there are one or two people who have strong opinions on things though and sometimes the usual internet arguments can crop up. I take what I can information wise but they don't bother me. 

The guide threads are very useful and I've always found them to be technical enough, without diving into advanced chemistry, most of which is more complex than I care to learn. A beginners section sounds a good idea though. A place that people can ask those newbie questions that have been asked many times before but without fear of being chastised & told they should have searched. It would be a good section for other newbies to read through first too.


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## MightyPumpkin

As a total aquascape newbie and new to the forum my impressions may help.
I was heartened to receive such a warm welcome and the information on the site is unbelievable detailed and extensive. There are people here who are incredibly knowledgeable and working at the pinnacle of this artform and others like me who are just starting out. I joined because i am inspired by the aquascapes created by members of this forum and because of the enjoyment and satisfaction I'm sure to achieve.
But... The initial few posts have made me hesitant to post questions. I know there is info in the sub forums but there is so much data (some of it very technical and filled with abbreviations) and as a beginner I'm not sure if the advice is going to be applicable to my setup or what some of the abbreviations mean.

That said later posts have been more incouraging so I'm going to stay and learn and enjoy.

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## AndyMcD

Although I haven't started a beginner's thread, I did summon up the courage to start a new thread concerning my thoughts on BBA.


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## flygja

Whatcha guys talking about? I love this place! I'm a member of a few aquascaping forums which I should not mention, but this is the only one I check regularly these days. Seems like you guys are a nice bunch, there are lotsa people sharing journals and a lotta nice photos to look at. I do miss some of the earlier members though like JamesC, Mark (saintly) and even Mr Farmer himself. They were a constant source of inspiration and generally nice people to converse with on the forums.

I can see where the elitist angle is coming from. Simple question like "What causes BBA" goes into arguments about stomata and equations and chemicals and scientific papers and theory1 vs theory2. Almost feels like I need a scientific lab rather than a creative mind. I honestly find it interesting to read but I can see where others may be getting turned off by it. These discussions are necessary to extend and expand our hobby, but the balance is delicate and hard to achieve. I was thinking we should have a separate "advanced" section where those with more than certain number of posts and read and comment, but that would just make it seem more elitist?

As with any gathering of normal flesh and blood humans with different backgrounds and experiences, there will be all sorts of people. Pretty normal I'd say . At least there are no brand-based flame wars!!


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## Ray

dw1305 said:


> He had become very frustrated with some of the "bullying" on the forum, and chose to withdraw.


That really is too bad and a great shame.  Back in the mists of time it was his algae page http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm (together with every post ever made by CEG) that saved me on multiple occasions.  He also did an excellent lighting color guide where he tested all the different bulbs and was one of the pioneers of Akadama as a substrate.

People hate using the search function.  We could probably use more stickies and articles, for example fter a 5 year absence I was surprised not to see any obvious stickies on lighting (what LED WPG?) or latest filters - had to use search .  That said if you lurk for a while and read all the active journals it soon starts to make sense...




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## MightyPumpkin

Yes please more stickies                

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## flygja

Talking about the search function, one of the controls is that you can't search for words that have 3 letters of less. That basically excludes search items like co2, ada, RO, fertiliser chemical symbols like Fe, Ca, Mg etc. Is it possible to code in some exceptions?


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## REDSTEVEO

Haven't seen or heard anything from Clive (ceg) for a while, maybe he got tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on questions from new members on algae problems and the like. It's not difficult to find the answers to what you want on here, it just can take a lot of time due to the volume of information. I too have been guilty of posting something only to find out someone else has already said it...doh Why didn't I look first. We have a sub title to each topic such as algae, lighting, Co2 etc you just have to invest some time looking for what you want, and if you don't find what you want straight away, you are bound to learn a few other things along the way.

Cheers,

Steve


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## MightyPumpkin

Haven't seen or heard anything from Clive (ceg) for a while, maybe he got tired of repeating the same thing over and over again on questions from new members on algae problems and the like. It's not difficult to find the answers to what you want on here, it just can take a lot of time due to the volume of information. I too have been guilty of posting something only to find out someone else has already said it...doh Why didn't I look first. We have a sub title to each topic such as algae, lighting, Co2 etc you just have to invest some time looking for what you want, and if you don't find what you want straight away, you are bound to learn a few other things along the way.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Steve

Posting questions, even if they have already been answered, is how new members begin to engage with others on the forum. It's nice to have support and encouragement from experienced aquascapers like yourself. And if people feel welcomed and gently pushed to where they can find help, well it's bound to help the forum continue. It can be a quite technical hobby and not a particularly sociable one. The work done by people on this forum has expanded awareness of the art of aquascaping and doubtless the increased availability of plants and hardware. I mean 10 years ago I couldn't get hc for love or money. So in short keep happy. Bear with us newbies and share knowledge.  

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## zozo

This looks like an extension of the "Did you search first topic".. 

Remeber the time when if we had questions about certain topics and no professor at hand to ask whos willing to repeat himself. Than we needed to visit the library. How many book titles and indexes you had to search for so many hours to find a specific answer about a certain topic. And than only if you asked the question right, if you have that wrong you still don't get the right answer. 

"bone idleness serves humanity"  or "Why do things the hardway" So lets ask first.. it's human nature and that's just why internet and it's search machines make use of. That's why it became so darn succesful after all. And internet communities / forums willing to take a piece of that only ask even more for lazy question.. What do you expect??

 Actauly, there isn''t a question to think of which isn't already asked somewhere on the internet several times if not a thousand. No matter what subject it is about. I guess, i think so, at least im using internet now for over a decade and till now didn't find a question which isnt already asked before.. I even did find questions of which i thought nobody would ever ask.  Nor did i ever have an (new genius) unique idea about something which isn't already thought of or tried by someone else several times. And in a way its a nice thing about internet, finaly find like wise minded people and finding out you're not the only (stupid/idiot) around.

What would a forum community be without the lazy newcomer who thinks "Why do things the hardway?" and just ask... Let the other do the searching if the question is to hard to answer straight away. We have a lot of people thinking differently and are nothing but intrigued by questions like that and search and find answers. Let them have the advantage. Learning from others lazyness.. And give the questioner the benefit of the doubt.

That way we all flourish, don't we..  I guess a forum would be rather dull if we only had to do with people finding all answers on their own and never ask a thing.. There wouldnt be much other left than the journal section for few people to bombard eachother with different opinions because one found another answer on the same qeustion somewhere else.


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## LondonDragon

flygja said:


> Talking about the search function, one of the controls is that you can't search for words that have 3 letters of less. That basically excludes search items like co2, ada, RO, fertiliser chemical symbols like Fe, Ca, Mg etc. Is it possible to code in some exceptions?


There is a good reason for that, the lower you go with the search the slower it takes to search the forum, if 4-5 people are searching for 3 letter words it will bring the forum to a halt and that will affect the experience for every one.

I know its not the same but you can still search using: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=co2+site:ukaps.org


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## GotCrabs

Just wanted to chime in here, I've been on this forum for a couple weeks and find everyone more than helpful, I've had no dramas on here, unlike some of the other forums I've been on and left, certainly one of the best forums getting around here for sure, good stuff.


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## flygja

Thanks Paulo for the explanation.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Off top of my head: being an IT guy I found very helpful site stackoverflow.com with very simple idea: you ask precise question about your problem - and you get precise answer (sometimes severals) about it. There is no room for long discussions, although there are comments, but often you can ignore it. So it's 1 to 1 situation: if you have quite similar or the same problem - you very easily can google it and find answer. Of course computer sciense is quite logical and 1+1 is always 2, while in our hobby it's not always true. Many people already said they can give answers, but still not sure it's totally correct. That's the problem. Just to think about.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi guys,
First when I read this thread I didn't want to post in it, but now I want to post my experience of UKAPS. 
When I discovered this forum (end of 2011) I started reading and reading all these endless information and UKAPS was a REVELATION for me. It has answered so many questions I had on the hobby !! After 6 months of reading I decided to join the community and this was the best decision I did in this hobby. 
I was a bit afraid to post here because English was not my language and that I was a complete noob in planted tank. 
But the welcome of the members was so nice that I felt directly part of the family. 
UKAPS started to be an obsession for me (visiting the forum every hour haha). 
After a while it was like, I personally know some of the member (that's not the case), knowing who is the one that makes the jokes, who is the beSt for this or that, I don't how to explain the why of the UKAPS effect on me. This is not a forum, it is more a family table where we all give and take advices. 
All question that I have posted here have been answered, and different solutions have been proposed by different member. 
What I love in this forum is the exchange between the members and the debate that can occurs with this exchange and for me that what make a forum alive !! 
We have a lot of different members with different back ground and different level of scientific knowledge and that's why also UKAPS is great! You want simple answer you can ... You want deep scientific answer you can... If you want to have a mentor in to help you you can ... I have asked Ceg to be my "mentor" and we have exchange a lot I can't even count the pages of private message we have exchange and it was great for me to have some one like that, taking me "in charge". Thanks Clive !!!
I started to visit and be member of other Aquascaping forum, but always keep coming back to UKAPS. Now I only comes here. Because I "know" the members and
It is so friendly compare to other forums I have been a member (French Americans etc...). 
I can understand why people says that this forum is a bit elitist! Because there is so much precise and scientific explanation that you don't have in other forums. But this is great for me, becauseI love to know why ... 
Newbies are not all the same and most of them just want to post have an answer and taking hours and hours of reading to find different answer (I have read so many hours on the forum). That's why I also think that a rookie section could be a good idea. 

I don't know why I posted all this maybe I just wanted to say thank you to the members, to the founders, to the moderators etc ....
I think I can talk hours about how this family is great and how it can help rookies.  

GUYS A HUGE THANK YOU FOR ALL !!! 
Long live UKAPS 

Regards 


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


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## ghostsword

I have not been on the forum for a few years.. 

So ceg, Mark and James C have not been active? 

What happened? 

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## LondonDragon

ghostsword said:


> What happened?


You were the first to reply here  http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/changing-times-for-ukaps.13720/

Ceg was online a few days ago  Mark decided to give the hobby a break, some of us have, yourself and myself included


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## ghostsword

I did not give the hobby a break.. still have about five or six running aquascapes, just busy with the moving to SA.. 

Trying to catch up in the forums.. so came across this post. 

James Star Marshal, stil scapping? And Alastair, have not heard about him for ages.. 

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## LondonDragon

yeah and your dogs  beasts!



ghostsword said:


> James Star Marshal, stil scapping? .


James still around, but he never visited forums that much anyway


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## ghostsword

Yeah.. got big ass dogs here.. but we need it..

Just bought a small holding, 5000sqm.. will setup emersed growing tents here.. 

I now grow plants in the garden and sell ... a mini tropica.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk


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## GotCrabs

@ghostsword are you in RSA? Follow the cricket at all? What's the aquarium/scaping scene like over there?


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## ghostsword

I am in Cape Town.. I do not follow any sport  

The aquarium scene is somewhat convoluted. Lack of competition means that many shops sell non aquatics. It is hard to get substrate, rocks and quality wood. 
However I improvise and have a nice collection of rocks and wood.  it is africa.. lots of natural stuff. 

Plants are hard to get, so I started with cuttings and grown them emersed. Got enough to sell, to use in my tanks.. 

The hobby is where the UK was in 2005, way behind.. but things are changing.

Main thing is to drop price fixing and the monopolies. 

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk


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## PARAGUAY

James Starr Marshall. think he does a lot of aquascapes to different shows events, done some really useful articles discussing his own Aquascaping failures which is sort of refreshing to read from a expert, high cost aquascapes to a good one about having a a good aquascape with low cost equipment and a little DIY


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## LondonDragon

hogan53 said:


> Hi
> The moderator on duty should welcome all new members and guide him/her to the revelvant section of the forum where need be!
> hoggie





Edvet said:


> We have those??


There are plenty now  lol


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## GHNelson

Ha ha


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## foxfish

You will now need a moderator to moderate the moderators


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## LondonDragon

foxfish said:


> You will now need a moderator to moderate the moderators


That's my role  unless you are volunteering?


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## rebel

Is it possible that some of the experienced folk could reach a point where they heard every question, every answer and can grow any plant? Aquafatigue or aquatic-burnout (pun intended). Perhaps that's why some fall out of forums etc...


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## Andy Thurston

rebel said:


> Is it possible that some of the experienced folk could reach a point where they heard every question, every answer and can grow any plant? Aquafatigue or aquatic-burnout (pun intended). Perhaps that's why some fall out of forums etc...



Partly but quite often peoples lives get in the way and posting on forums takes a back seat.

I used to read every post when I first joined ukaps but now I only really tend to read bits that seem different, new theories, posts about new products appearing on the market etc.

oh and any posts that are on the sections that I now moderate.

I will answer questions from people, if I see a topic that has no replies, or that has missing/inaccurate information which I can add to. I guess this is my way of contributing to a forum which has taught me so much.


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## rebel

Big clown said:


> Partly but quite often peoples lives get in the way and posting on forums takes a back seat.
> 
> I used to read every post when I first joined ukaps but now I only really tend to read bits that seem different, new theories, posts about new products appearing on the market etc.
> 
> oh and any posts that are on the sections that I now moderate.
> 
> I will answer questions from people, if I see a topic that has no replies, or that has missing/inaccurate information which I can add to. I guess this is my way of contributing to a forum which has taught me so much.


Fair call.


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## Manuel Arias

Well, my two pennies...or probably several ones. 

First of all, forgive by not citing to all the things I am highlighting here from the former conversation, but too many people to cite!

I understand the concern from some members and/or people. I can tell that it is an intrinsic problem from any forum. Not many years ago, I had chances to manage several forums with lot of people, and the same "issues/problems" some people cited here, are exactly the same ones:

Veterans: Meanwhile being veteran in a forum is good, it also has some side effects, not always so good, but unavoidable. People staying for long time in forums have spent lot of time sharing thoughts and experiences with others. This leads unavoidably to affinity between the members, and many times with additional support. This is totally normal being human and social beings. Because of that, veterans tend to be listened more frequently, and attended more frequently than the ones that are more new. In other words: new people have to create their own room in an environment with well established lads, with people that they defend each others just because of they have become friends. This situation in no few occasions creates the sensation that a forum is "elitist", especially when goes to debating or arguing about ideas that the veterans accept as right, despite of being incorrect. But there is always an inertia that it is not always easy to break with new ideas. This is also typical from old forums, as there are these ideas that consolidate within the time and everyone assumes as universal truths. But again, this is normal, and sometimes there is a reason behind why some ideas become lied in stone, even if there is no apparent argument for that. 

Consolidated truths: As mentioned above, there is always a tendency in forums to people adopt ideas that become popular in the time. These ideas become in dogmatic things that can be based in real stuff, or just are ideas created by people with better communication skills, or that got a more relevant weight due to external factors. No offence intended, but you will see few people trying to convince Tom Barr, George Farmer or Clive (for example) that their arguments are wrong. They are heavily experienced people that have showed lot of success in this hobby for many years, which has made of them a sort of reference. However, that does not mean that they are always right, or that the arguments they have traditionally offered are correct. In an open forum as this one, debate is the important point because it is the debate which forces people to improve knowledge, go deeper in the reason behind the things, and essentially, what creates progress! The day everyone sticks to what some guys say, that day the forum will stop to create new ideas, face new problems, and try to get new and better solutions. So my view here is: if you become in a reference, be ready to face all the arguments with good mood! Otherwise, you have to keep an open mind and be ready to learn from new people. I taught at the University for 7 years, and I can tell you that even people considered as "newbies" can offer a point of view that no one considered before. Less experience does not mean that new people cannot express themselves. And if they (we) are wrong, it does not matter! It is a part of the path of learning, and a very important part, by the way. It is much better to express a wrong idea than silence a good one, and in many times the criteria to put one idea in one side or the other depends a lot of the context.

Egos: Well, as mentioned, here there are human beings with different characters. Since shy people that are scared of expressing their own ideas or questions, to very outgoing people with stronger character. These differences are normal, but it does not mean the forum has bullies inside. It is just how people express themselves sometimes. The problem accents when the things are said in posts, instead of directly speaking on live to someone. I perceive that there are some scientists around (I am one, for instance, for the sorrow of some of the readers), and in my experience in research, scientist tend do become debates in something quite hot when they do not agree about some points. But the important is not that the arguments become hot, rather than the discussion never becomes personal and goes around the ideas. At the end, these discussions tend to drift towards the basis behind the phenomena we observe, which brings knowledge to the forum, as well as interesting points of view, links, references, etc. Those events are happening, but they are kept in terms. However, I understand that sometimes these discussions can be frightening, especially because here we will have people from very different backgrounds. But as already said by some of you, it is not point to get upset or fed up. If some discussion bothers you, or you think is not of your interest, just stop following it.

Finding information: It is some times difficult to find something in a forum that has been running for years and with may active members. The search tools usually arr not optimal, and most of users like to have fast access to the information they are looking for. On the other hand, search tools does nor grant you to have access to the thread about a topic with the "most up to date" information. Someone proposed to use more stick posts. This is useful, but in my point of view, that requires to be done in a slightly different point of view. Sticking a post it does not mean is up to date, especially if the post was stuck several years ago. At the same time, normal threads are in many occasions dead lines that do not end in a conclusion about the topic. The best idea in fact is to gather these conclusions in articles that are accessible but blocked to comments. In the forums it is then allowed to open discussion about the articles, and use the community inputs to correct the articles and collect on it the new views that are scientifically sound or well based in experience. In order to avoid the issue of the "egos" or "veterans" ans pointed out above, these articles are just references or aids for people, not "universal truths" and of course, not associated to personal names. As said, just a mere collection of conclusions generated by the whole community with more or less contrasted information if possible. Basically, something someone new can read and apply, written in plain words and trying to be as objective as possible. For instance, an example would be an article explaining each of the most common fertilizing methods applied for the community, with a list of pros and cons, and signed by UKAPS as organization and no by specific people. This way of acting is what brings prestige to a community. This is, of course, just a suggestion from my side, as it is how we work now in may ways in the scientific community, and works quite well. Of course, different points of view are totally allowed. 

But beyond those "issues", there are also some "good practises":

1. Not be in a hurry when you ask something in the forum. Best result comes from allowing the community to provide several answers and you taking your decision based in those answers.

2. Not limit yourself to ask. If you ask and you have a reply that you apply, it is good to provide feedback. Did you apply some method to correct algae problem that someone proposed and worked for you? Express it in the thread. Did you try but do not work? Mention it also. Provide as many details as possible in your feedback, so some learning of the experience can be transmitted to the community.

3. People are not infallible. So if you apply advises coming from the community, but you do not get the expected result, do not blame the community. All decisions you take based on the information contained here are at your own risk. If does not work what you did, just try to learn why it did not, and debate this in the community. This is not exact science, so if you apply some method/technique that the community proposed and does not work, it does not mean necessarily that they were wrong! Something that works many times for many people can fail for you, because each tank is different and the amount of variables to consider so big, that it is really difficult to have "universal" solutions.

4. Be ready and humble enough to learn: It should not matter at all your previous background/experience. The  most relaxed discussions will happen if all the participants are thinking, from a start, that they could be wrong. If you start a thread or participate in one thinking that you are right, with no intention to correct yourself if someone else offers a more solid argument, then the discussion can become annoying. So always participate giving some room to a potential error, even if you are 99.99% sure about what you say. You never know, so be open to learn from everybody,

5. Do not repeat again and again the same argument. If you do not agree with a comment from someone, the right thing is to extend or support your answer with  more information or properly refer it. 

6. And, of course, the basis: do not take comments as personal, respect the other users, have patience with the members, focus in the ideas behind instead of the wording, think by yourself before acting, and again...be open to learn new things. This forum is not intended to compete between the members rather than collaborate. When people successes thanks to guidelines and help provided here, it is a success of the community, not only of that person. This attitude and way of thinking is what makes great to a community. Note that, however, success is something that you have to define by yourself, despite of whether you are looking for just an impressive tank at home, or you are trying to score high in the EAPLC or IAPLC. The highest the expectations, the most difficult will be, but the contribution of the community to your work will not be less important because of that.

And well, long enough for only two pennies.


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## nayr88

Brilliant forum that I have learnt so much from over the years. 

I've been on a few others for different hobbies and this is by far the best, I remember a few which you would be ripped apart on, the odd spelling or grammar mistake and they would hound you for it. You would come back to your thread/post and there would be 8 or 9 belittling comments. Post a picture the wrong size or format, comment similar to someone else comment, ect ect 

There's a good bunch here and I've never felt like that, early days when I guess I may of made a scene or two but I'm older now and more mature. I do check back but I'll normally find what I'm looking for without having to ask or post, I'll do my bit for sure and make sure I chime in. It wouldn't be fair of me to of asked the q's got the answers and then run of into the sun set haha. I'll be abit more active and for sure will be chiming in again.

Good to see the ghostsword name popping up!! It's been a while since I've seen that! 

LONG LIVE UKAPS


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## rebel

Manuel Arias said:


> Well, my two pennies...or probably several ones.
> 
> First of all, forgive by not citing to all the things I am highlighting here from the former conversation, but too many people to cite!
> 
> I understand the concern from some members and/or people. I can tell that it is an intrinsic problem from any forum. Not many years ago, I had chances to manage several forums with lot of people, and the same "issues/problems" some people cited here, are exactly the same ones:
> 
> Veterans: Meanwhile being veteran in a forum is good, it also has some side effects, not always so good, but unavoidable. People staying for long time in forums have spent lot of time sharing thoughts and experiences with others. This leads unavoidably to affinity between the members, and many times with additional support. This is totally normal being human and social beings. Because of that, veterans tend to be listened more frequently, and attended more frequently than the ones that are more new. In other words: new people have to create their own room in an environment with well established lads, with people that they defend each others just because of they have become friends. This situation in no few occasions creates the sensation that a forum is "elitist", especially when goes to debating or arguing about ideas that the veterans accept as right, despite of being incorrect. But there is always an inertia that it is not always easy to break with new ideas. This is also typical from old forums, as there are these ideas that consolidate within the time and everyone assumes as universal truths. But again, this is normal, and sometimes there is a reason behind why some ideas become lied in stone, even if there is no apparent argument for that.
> 
> Consolidated truths: As mentioned above, there is always a tendency in forums to people adopt ideas that become popular in the time. These ideas become in dogmatic things that can be based in real stuff, or just are ideas created by people with better communication skills, or that got a more relevant weight due to external factors. No offence intended, but you will see few people trying to convince Tom Barr, George Farmer or Clive (for example) that their arguments are wrong. They are heavily experienced people that have showed lot of success in this hobby for many years, which has made of them a sort of reference. However, that does not mean that they are always right, or that the arguments they have traditionally offered are correct. In an open forum as this one, debate is the important point because it is the debate which forces people to improve knowledge, go deeper in the reason behind the things, and essentially, what creates progress! The day everyone sticks to what some guys say, that day the forum will stop to create new ideas, face new problems, and try to get new and better solutions. So my view here is: if you become in a reference, be ready to face all the arguments with good mood! Otherwise, you have to keep an open mind and be ready to learn from new people. I taught at the University for 7 years, and I can tell you that even people considered as "newbies" can offer a point of view that no one considered before. Less experience does not mean that new people cannot express themselves. And if they (we) are wrong, it does not matter! It is a part of the path of learning, and a very important part, by the way. It is much better to express a wrong idea than silence a good one, and in many times the criteria to put one idea in one side or the other depends a lot of the context.
> 
> Egos: Well, as mentioned, here there are human beings with different characters. Since shy people that are scared of expressing their own ideas or questions, to very outgoing people with stronger character. These differences are normal, but it does not mean the forum has bullies inside. It is just how people express themselves sometimes. The problem accents when the things are said in posts, instead of directly speaking on live to someone. I perceive that there are some scientists around (I am one, for instance, for the sorrow of some of the readers), and in my experience in research, scientist tend do become debates in something quite hot when they do not agree about some points. But the important is not that the arguments become hot, rather than the discussion never becomes personal and goes around the ideas. At the end, these discussions tend to drift towards the basis behind the phenomena we observe, which brings knowledge to the forum, as well as interesting points of view, links, references, etc. Those events are happening, but they are kept in terms. However, I understand that sometimes these discussions can be frightening, especially because here we will have people from very different backgrounds. But as already said by some of you, it is not point to get upset or fed up. If some discussion bothers you, or you think is not of your interest, just stop following it.
> 
> Finding information: It is some times difficult to find something in a forum that has been running for years and with may active members. The search tools usually arr not optimal, and most of users like to have fast access to the information they are looking for. On the other hand, search tools does nor grant you to have access to the thread about a topic with the "most up to date" information. Someone proposed to use more stick posts. This is useful, but in my point of view, that requires to be done in a slightly different point of view. Sticking a post it does not mean is up to date, especially if the post was stuck several years ago. At the same time, normal threads are in many occasions dead lines that do not end in a conclusion about the topic. The best idea in fact is to gather these conclusions in articles that are accessible but blocked to comments. In the forums it is then allowed to open discussion about the articles, and use the community inputs to correct the articles and collect on it the new views that are scientifically sound or well based in experience. In order to avoid the issue of the "egos" or "veterans" ans pointed out above, these articles are just references or aids for people, not "universal truths" and of course, not associated to personal names. As said, just a mere collection of conclusions generated by the whole community with more or less contrasted information if possible. Basically, something someone new can read and apply, written in plain words and trying to be as objective as possible. For instance, an example would be an article explaining each of the most common fertilizing methods applied for the community, with a list of pros and cons, and signed by UKAPS as organization and no by specific people. This way of acting is what brings prestige to a community. This is, of course, just a suggestion from my side, as it is how we work now in may ways in the scientific community, and works quite well. Of course, different points of view are totally allowed.
> 
> But beyond those "issues", there are also some "good practises":
> 
> 1. Not be in a hurry when you ask something in the forum. Best result comes from allowing the community to provide several answers and you taking your decision based in those answers.
> 
> 2. Not limit yourself to ask. If you ask and you have a reply that you apply, it is good to provide feedback. Did you apply some method to correct algae problem that someone proposed and worked for you? Express it in the thread. Did you try but do not work? Mention it also. Provide as many details as possible in your feedback, so some learning of the experience can be transmitted to the community.
> 
> 3. People are not infallible. So if you apply advises coming from the community, but you do not get the expected result, do not blame the community. All decisions you take based on the information contained here are at your own risk. If does not work what you did, just try to learn why it did not, and debate this in the community. This is not exact science, so if you apply some method/technique that the community proposed and does not work, it does not mean necessarily that they were wrong! Something that works many times for many people can fail for you, because each tank is different and the amount of variables to consider so big, that it is really difficult to have "universal" solutions.
> 
> 4. Be ready and humble enough to learn: It should not matter at all your previous background/experience. The  most relaxed discussions will happen if all the participants are thinking, from a start, that they could be wrong. If you start a thread or participate in one thinking that you are right, with no intention to correct yourself if someone else offers a more solid argument, then the discussion can become annoying. So always participate giving some room to a potential error, even if you are 99.99% sure about what you say. You never know, so be open to learn from everybody,
> 
> 5. Do not repeat again and again the same argument. If you do not agree with a comment from someone, the right thing is to extend or support your answer with  more information or properly refer it.
> 
> 6. And, of course, the basis: do not take comments as personal, respect the other users, have patience with the members, focus in the ideas behind instead of the wording, think by yourself before acting, and again...be open to learn new things. This forum is not intended to compete between the members rather than collaborate. When people successes thanks to guidelines and help provided here, it is a success of the community, not only of that person. This attitude and way of thinking is what makes great to a community. Note that, however, success is something that you have to define by yourself, despite of whether you are looking for just an impressive tank at home, or you are trying to score high in the EAPLC or IAPLC. The highest the expectations, the most difficult will be, but the contribution of the community to your work will not be less important because of that.
> 
> And well, long enough for only two pennies.



Manual I read this comment again. This post serves a sticky status I reckon. I may even copy this post to another forum just to educate everyone [will send you pm to make sure you are ok with it]...


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## Nelson

nayr88 said:


> the odd spelling or grammar mistake and they would hound you for it..............ect ect


You really do need to check your grammar...................etc etc .


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## nayr88

Haha im the worst, I spend my whole day sending emails to clients! This is my down time and I'll be f'ed if I'm proof reading that too.
Good spot though


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## jagillham

Skimmed the thread, so apologies if this has already been said!

UKAPS is a great forum, but all online forums to an extent have the same "issues". Especially hobby ones like I have frequented before.

In reality there is only X number of questions about any topic. If you wanted you could sticky a whole bunch of the regular ones, but at some point it turns from a forum into Wikipedia.

Regular members come and go, just how things are. Run out of things to say after a while!


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