# Chloramines



## Luvlyjub (7 Dec 2021)

For a particular reason I plan to dechlorinate my tap water without using a conditioner for a specific situation.

If I degas my tap water to remove chlorine over 24 hours with an air stone I should be left with any chloramines as my Water Company adds ammonia that will combine with the chlorine.

As the level of chloramine may still be toxic (I understand it takes a long time to breakdown) then can I test this or remove?

If I use an external filter with activated carbon over the degassing period will this breakdown and bond the chlorine within chloramine but does this then become an ammonia issue -if so are the levels ammonia then higher enough to be a concern?

I have read that some say activated carbon may not work to remove/breakdown chloramine due to granular size and less contact rate due to flow. But not sure if this context refers to the multiple circulation of water through a filter for aquarium use.

I am aware of boiling the water over a long period or using UV but this is not an option as looking at a simple short-term solution.

Ideally I will need to test so will a 'Total Chlorine' test show the level of any residual chlorine and chloramine? My Water Company report states level for Total Chlorine ranges from 0.2 to 1.2 mg/l over the year and would need this to be less than 0.05 mg/l. 

I know you can buy cheap test strips for water quality or pond use that includes Total and Free Chlorine but reliability of results seems an issue.

Any advice appreciated


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## dw1305 (7 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


Luvlyjub said:


> As the level of chloramine may still be toxic (I understand it takes a long time to breakdown) then can I test this or remove?..... I know you can buy cheap test strips for water quality or pond use that includes Total and Free Chlorine but reliability of results seems an issue


You can't easily test for it, there are the <"LaMotte Test strips">. You could <"test for ammoni(a)um (TAN)">, but there are some issues with this. The advantage/problem with chloramine (NH2Cl) is that it  continually releases a trickle of both chlorine and NH3/NH4+ (the form of ammonia/ammonium is pH dependent). 


Luvlyjub said:


> Ideally I will need to test so will a 'Total Chlorine' test show the level of any residual chlorine and chloramine? My Water Company report states level for Total Chlorine ranges from 0.2 to 1.2 mg/l over the year and would need this to be less than 0.05 mg/l.


<"It should do">. If the "free chlorine" and "total chlorine" values are the same? You don't have any chloramine. Because you can taste chlorine at above 0.5 ppm,  the "1.2mg/L value" would strongly suggest some chloramine usage.


Luvlyjub said:


> For a particular reason I plan to dechlorinate my tap water without using a conditioner for a specific situation .............. and would need this to be less than 0.05 mg/l.


I'd definitely go for rain water, no added chlorine and pretty much distilled water at this time of the year.  The other option is to run the water through a "vegetable filter" first, something like a <"recirculating aquaponics situation">, but that would be a lot more work.

cheers Darrel


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## X3NiTH (7 Dec 2021)

You might want to have a look at this paper.

Electrochemical Removal of Ammonium Nitrogen and COD of Domestic Wastewater using Platinum Coated Titanium as an Anode Electrode

How good are your DIY skills?


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## Luvlyjub (7 Dec 2021)

Thanks Darrel,

The levels of Total Chlorine in my water quoted at 1.2 mg/l peak was a concern and now thinking if I should test water for chlorine on a regular basis anyway and adjust dosage of water conditioner I use normally.

I note those test strips but I guess they are similar to those on Amazon and was thinking of getting these Total Chlorine Test  ?

To add - the Total Chlorine test will include levels of Chloramine?


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## Luvlyjub (7 Dec 2021)

X3NiTH said:


> You might want to have a look at this paper.
> 
> Electrochemical Removal of Ammonium Nitrogen and COD of Domestic Wastewater using Platinum Coated Titanium as an Anode Electrode
> 
> How good are your DIY skills?


Now that is taking it a bit too far and no Ikea style construction plan included!


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## dw1305 (7 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


Luvlyjub said:


> The levels of Total Chlorine in my water quoted at 1.2 mg/l peak was a concern


I'm not a tap water user and that <"is one of the reasons">. Drinking water needs to be safe to drink, it doesn't need to be fish safe and any threat to the integrity of the water main is likely to be swiftly followed by <"emergency chloramine dosing">.

If I was obliged to use tap water in the tanks I would use <"regular small volume water changes">, with water that had stood for a while before use.

Because I keep <"very weedy tanks">, with large gas exchange surface area, I wouldn't be too worried about chloramine, as neither the trickle of chlorine, or of ammonia, is going to kill the fish and the plants will pretty effectively suck up <"any spare "fixed nitrogen">.


> _......... Plant/Microbe biofiltration would give you <"belt and braces">, but you would need a lot of plants, ideally with the aerial advantage. Something like <"Eichornia or Pistia"> would have the highest potential nitrogen removal values and would be best in a shallow, very brightly lit lagoon with a <"shower filter or similar"> to return the water to the tank.........._





Luvlyjub said:


> now thinking if I should test water for chlorine on a regular basis anyway and adjust dosage of water conditioner I use normally.


You could test, but if you use a conditioner like <"Prime">, it should deal with any chloramine. You would need some-one else (@ian_m ) to advise you of a suitable grade of testing strip. I don't ever test the tank water and we use an ion selective electrode at work.

cheers Darrel


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## Luvlyjub (7 Dec 2021)

Sorry I should have explained.

I normally use Prime for my water conditioner.

I have a situation in one tank with BBA (cause possibly over oxygenation and nitrate levels) and I have used Esha Protalon 707 treatment with various levels of success in the past. One of the points I recently noted in their FAQ's is that water conditioners may reduce the effectiveness of the product. So my plan was to undertake a couple of water changes over a week to dilute the existing tank tap water that would have Prime added.

Hence my quandary on Chloramine levels after degassing tap water.

My other option is to dilute with RO water on a water change (as I use RO water in another tank) but was worried if that would upset existing parameters in the tank that is stable and no problems over many years in terms of fish welfare. With 2 50% water changes it should leave 25% concentration of original tap water, so as a separate question and avoid the Chloramine issue should I be concerned doing this? To add this is a non-planted tank at the moment and will be changed but even through I hope to have addressed BBA cause it keeps growing on substrate as there are no plants competing for the nitrogen. I am having to live with the tank for a few more months as there are a number of fry that I want to mature before re-scaping and BBA is bugging me.


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## dw1305 (7 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


Luvlyjub said:


> Esha Protalon 707


That is a new one for me, it  sounds like it might be another "liquid carbon" based product. Let's just say I'm sceptical.


Luvlyjub said:


> I have a situation in one tank with BBA (cause possibly over oxygenation and nitrate levels)


You can't really have <"over-oxygenation"> outside of some <"very special circumstances">, but it is true that BBA isn't <"deterred by high flow">.  I'll pass on the nitrate level, I've no idea whether that is relevant or not.

We have a couple of very long (and inconclusive) threads <"about BBA">, which is a problem for a lot of people.



Luvlyjub said:


> To add this is a non-planted tank at the moment and will be changed but even through I hope to have addressed BBA cause it keeps growing on substrate as there are no plants competing for the nitrogen. I am having to live with the tank for a few more months as there are a number of fry that I want to mature before re-scaping and BBA is bugging me.


The easy answer might be just to turn the light out? Other than for viewing?

Are we talking Mbuna for the grow-outs? If we aren't I might try <"a floating plant"> and <"some Ramshorn snails">, if you want to leave the light on?

cheers Darrel


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## DaveyG (7 Dec 2021)

I use a 50/50 tap/RO mix mainly to reduce nitrate levels. I tend to do daily water changes (20 litres x 5 days). I leave the water 24 hrs before use. I would imagine this would go a long way in reducing the chlorine level.
Tank is 300 litres.


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## bazz (7 Dec 2021)

Hi,
If I'm understanding correctly, could you not extract your water from the RO system before it goes through the membrane but after it has passed through the sediment, activated carbon and carbon block filters?
You will have to restrict the flow (with the tap) to increase contact time using just this part of the system as there is no back pressure from the membrane.
Apologies if I've got hold of the wrong end of the stick.
Cheers!


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## MichaelJ (7 Dec 2021)

Luvlyjub said:


> normally use Prime for my water conditioner.
> 
> I have a situation in one tank with BBA (cause possibly over oxygenation and nitrate levels) and I have used Esha Protalon 707 treatment with various levels of success in the past.


Hi @Luvlyjub  Personally, I am not a fan of throwing _poison_ at algae (or any other thing for that matter...) ... I assume this is the non-planted tank with the livestock evacuated (otherwise it would be a total non-starter for me)...   It's not addressing the underlying cause at all - which is likely too much light, organic waste buildup etc. so unless you address the underlying cause, the algae will likely be back when you stop the treatment.



Luvlyjub said:


> One of the points I recently noted in their FAQ's is that water conditioners may reduce the effectiveness of the product.


I took a quick look in their website... Is says: _"Under normal circumstances and dosages water conditioners cause no problems. However when used excessively, because of their strong binding capacities, water conditioners (dechlorinators, heavy metal binders, etc.) can potentially decrease the effectiveness of products such as disease treatments, algae / snail treatments, etc. or even give rise to reactions."_

That wouldn't deter me from using Prime. Between the WC and the addition of the Prime (preferably mixed with the WC water beforehand) I would just wait a few hours before applying the Algaecide.

Cheers,
Michael


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## jaypeecee (11 Dec 2021)

X3NiTH said:


> You might want to have a look at this paper.
> 
> Electrochemical Removal of Ammonium Nitrogen and COD of Domestic Wastewater using Platinum Coated Titanium as an Anode Electrode
> 
> How good are your DIY skills?


Hi Folks,

'Platinum Coated Titanium' - now that's probably going to be expensive!

JPC


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## jaypeecee (11 Dec 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I'd definitely go for rain water, no added chlorine and pretty much distilled water at this time of the year.


I currently collect rain water in clean containers (fresh from _HomeBase_). I prefer to collect it straight from the sky. Doing this, I can get water that has conductivity less than 10 microSiemens/cm. If airborne seeds are collected in the process, these can easily be removed using a fish net.

JPC


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## sparkyweasel (11 Dec 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> 'Platinum Coated Titanium' - now that's probably going to be expensive!


£6.59


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## jaypeecee (11 Dec 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> £6.59


Hi @sparkyweasel 

Now, this is one of those situations where (my) being wrong is a distinct advantage!

JPC


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