# Humic acid and other black water extracts in water. Do they degrade?



## Lindy (19 Feb 2015)

If I use peat/humic black water extract to get my wc water to the right ph in my holding tank and then use that for wc's on all the other tanks is it ok to assume the ph in my other tanks will stay at a steady ph? I get it to ph 5 and wc 10-20% once a week. does the ph altering substances degrade quickly? I have some humic blackwater stuff for the shrimp tank and it says add weekly but is that just to cover wcs or is it being ''used up''?


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## Edvet (19 Feb 2015)

I do think it does degrade/ get less, Not sure if it decays in UV/O2 or just precipitates(in filtercoloids). Depends on source i guess, the larger the molecules, the sooner it will decay, but with weekle wc i doubt you will notice.


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## ourmanflint (19 Feb 2015)

Any plants in the tank will drive the pH to neutral over time, I have been trying for a year to have a planted tank with a low pH but it just does not seem to work. Also all humic substances will be broken down by UV over time as well.

This is in a low tech tank by the way. I have often thought about going hi-tech just to be able to drop the pH with the aid of additional CO2


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## Lindy (19 Feb 2015)

Thanks guys, maybe I will leave a very small amount of peat in the filter. Not enough to lower ph further but to maintain the desired ph. I do have co2 available for this tank but I do have concerns about malfunctions and gassing fish  so thought to try and do without.


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## Lindy (19 Feb 2015)

I've got a spare eheim ecco 130 I could put peat in and have on a timer for an hour a day just to give a dose of the good stuff everyday. That would be better than running co2 just for ph drop.


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## dw1305 (19 Feb 2015)

Hi all,





ourmanflint said:


> have often thought about going hi-tech just to be able to drop the pH with the aid of additional CO2


 That is a bit different, you have changed the HCO3- ~ CO2 equilibrium by continually adding CO2 and that isn't quite the same as having water with a naturally low pH. 

You can keep some plants in very acid waters, the problem normally comes when you feed them. If you start with water with very few bases (H+ ion acceptors) and add humic compounds (H+ ion donors), you should be able to maintain a low pH. 

One reason why "black-water" is tinted is the low nutrient status means that there are very few bacteria to utilise the available carbon compounds. If you add nitrogen to a black-water tank the water will clear as the C:N ratio will now support a larger bacterial load, which will break-down the large carbon based molecules.  

cheers Darrel


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## Lindy (20 Feb 2015)

That is facinating Darrel. I'm glad I didn't put ferts in the tank after a total wc as I got as far as picking up the bottle. I will use no ferts or co2. All but the java fern and bolbitis are rooted into pond soil anyway.


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## BigTom (20 Feb 2015)

If you're using pond soil then I'd only bother dosing ferts if you start seeing obvious deficiencies. 

Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (20 Feb 2015)

Hi all,





ldcgroomer said:


> That is facinating Darrel. I'm glad I didn't put ferts in the tank after a total wc as I got as far as picking up the bottle. I will use no ferts or co2. All but the java fern and bolbitis are rooted into pond soil anyway.


 _Bolbitis_ and Java fern do well in low nutrient, acid conditions. Have a look at <"Amazonian Fishes and their Habitats">.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (20 Feb 2015)

dw1305 said:


> Have a look at <"Amazonian Fishes and their Habitats


Hah they where the first with decent material available on biotopes, i even bought their CD in 2004, compare that with the wealth of info nowadays...


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## Lindy (20 Feb 2015)

dw1305 said:


> Bolbitis and Java fern do well in low nutrient, acid conditions.


Thats why I have them in all my fish room tanks. Ph is as low as 4.7 in some tanks, tds 45, and they do great.


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