# 125l - 'on the edge'



## chump54 (25 Jun 2009)

Hi all,

new journal, I'm going to try a few layouts before I add the water. I will be using AS but at the mo I'm using 'dirt' ermm...soil from the garden.

it's a 80x34x50ish (rio 125)

I've made a wooden frame to the correct dimensions, it's worked out quite useful much better than the old photo developing tray i was using  

layout 1




please let me know what you think


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## samc (25 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

pretty good   

got any ideas for planting?


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## Steve Smith (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Wow, that looks great!  My only suggestion, and please feel free to ignore it completly  The rocks at either end look a little square on to the front of the tank, and sort of symetrical with each other.  You might want to move them a little, varying how far one is to the edge of the tank compared to the other.  Maybe even group them together on the left side, to continue the flow of the rock to the centre?

Just a thought!  It's often difficult to tell when looking at photos


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## Mark Evans (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

quality!

like steve suggests, off set the 2 middle stones maybe, and bring one of the left or right in slightly leaving the other....maybe the left one. minimal changes to get it right.

the wood looks brilliant   

the optiwhite is the best i've seen


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## Nelson (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

hi,
love it,agree with the others about the end stones.
what wood is that.


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## Dan Crawford (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Thats freakin' awesome! I'd be well happy with that


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## chump54 (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Thanks for the encouragement  everyone, much appreciated  



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> The rocks at either end look a little square on ...





			
				saintly said:
			
		

> quality!
> 
> like steve suggests, off set the 2 middle stones maybe, and bring one of the left or right in slightly leaving the other....maybe the left one. minimal changes to get it right.



I agree I'm not happy with those either... will have a fiddle with it later.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> the wood looks brilliant
> 
> the optiwhite is the best i've seen


   it'll look disappointing in the rio 125   



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> hi,
> love it,agree with the others about the end stones.
> what wood is that.


wood is 'heather' sourced locally, took a good month to sink



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Thats freakin' awesome! I'd be well happy with that


   thanks 

just discovered the kids using it as a 'gormiti' base


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## Mark Evans (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> it'll look disappointing in the rio 125



optiwhite is an expensive luxury mate, i still love float glass though. it almost gives contrast to the over all look.


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## chump54 (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> pretty good
> 
> got any ideas for planting?



sorry sam missed your post,

planting??? well I thought about maybe crypt parva or glosso along the front under the rocks, Microsorum pteropus 'Narrow' and/or Bolbitis heudelotii on/within the wood and possibly hair grass round the sides, with a background of stems possibly HM but not sure about the height I really like the stems (back right) on page 52 of book 1, takashi amano but I don't know what they are... if anyone knows I'd be grateful if you could let me know. 

and possibly some moss on the end of some of the wood, but not sure, it would need to be something with a very small scale.

cheers

Chris


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## LondonDragon (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Hardscape is great, I would be happy with that too, congrats and look forward to seeing it in the tank.
I also have a Rio 125 and love it


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## rawr (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Wow, that hardscape looks brilliant! Keep us posted on this.


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## chump54 (26 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Hardscape is great, I would be happy with that too, congrats and look forward to seeing it in the tank.
> I also have a Rio 125 and love it


thanks   



			
				rawr said:
			
		

> Wow, that hardscape looks brilliant! Keep us posted on this.



thanks, will try to keep up the posts.


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## chump54 (27 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

ok, first one is similar to the previous one, I'm trying to get a bit more height in the rock.



and this one, I'm thinking I would 'fill' the area on the right behind the rock line with substrate. (i've flipped this image as it would work better in the room the tank is in)



the wood in both these needs some finessing


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## Mark Evans (27 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

 

there all brilliant! the penultimate is good

ah, sorry! the last one


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## JohnC (28 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Hi,

Nice use of a DIY frame to work out the layout out of the tank, i've not caught that technique before. 

Looks good. I say plant it.

John


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## chump54 (28 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> there all brilliant! the penultimate is good
> 
> ah, sorry! the last one



thanks Mark


			
				hijac said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> Nice use of a DIY frame to work out the layout out of the tank, i've not caught that technique before.
> 
> ...



I just need to get on with   need to find the time. The frame seemed like a good idea, I'm not going to get much time to try different layouts once the tank is dry (3 kids   )


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## SKP1995 (28 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

Definitely the last one for me, its got a nice triangular shape going on.


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## Steve Smith (28 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

I liked the first one, but that last one is awesome! 

Get it planted!!


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## chump54 (28 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

will do, working on it, and thanks guys

is there a limit to the depth of substrate, ie can it be too deep?

Chris


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## JohnC (29 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> will do, working on it, and thanks guys
> 
> is there a limit to the depth of substrate, ie can it be too deep?
> 
> Chris



i can't think of any reason other then not being able to fit anything else in the tank and aesthetics to an upper limit on substrate depth. Oh other then sand and anaerobic pockets, but with your substrate i doubt that would happen.

John


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## chump54 (29 Jun 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

just thinking about giving the scape a bit of height at the back/back right


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## chump54 (6 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

ok, I'm going for this hardscape(or at least similar), I'd be interested in your thoughts on the planting 



central - Bolbitis heudelotii & Microsorum pteropus `Narrow`
behind - Ceratopteris thalictroides 
to the right - Blyxa Japonica
running between rocks towards the front - Hydrocotyle verticillata
under rock over hang - Cryptocoryne x willisii
forground - Echinodorus tenellus & Eleocharis acicularis

how does that sound? I've struggled with e-tenellus before but I'm hoping the AS substrate will help


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## chump54 (7 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

ok having second thoughts about the background Ceratopteris thalictroides I think it might be too similar to the bolbitis, what do you think? or any suggestions as to what I could put at the back.

central - Bolbitis heudelotii & Microsorum pteropus (not narrow)
behind - ????
to the right back - Blyxa Japonica
running between rocks towards the front - Hydrocotyle verticillata
under rock over hang - Cryptocoryne x willisii
forground - Echinodorus tenellus with Eleocharis acicularis hi-lighting the rocks/wood


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## chump54 (13 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts*

after a couple of days, still a bit cloudy but getting there

central - Bolbitis heudelotii & Microsorum pteropus
behind - Hygrophila corymbosa `Siamensis` & Anubias barteri var. barteri
back right - Blyxa Japonica
back left - Cryptocoryne beckettii ``petchii
under rock over hang - Cryptocoryne x willisii
forground - Echinodorus tenellus with Eleocharis acicularis hi-lighting the rocks/wood[/quote]



missing some wood which floated   any tips for getting stubborn floaty wood to sink?


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## Graeme Edwards (13 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

It looks nice.

The one thing I will say is that with all the time you have spent on deciding your hardscape, you may find that you will loose the rocks and a small part of your wood, which would be a shame considering the amount of time and thought you have put into it.

Long term, I would imagine that only the smallest tips of wood will be visible. 
This is of course fine, and all is subjective. Often though, the hard scape is what sets the mood and structure of the aquascape. Careful thought of how plants will grow long term and their expected size and growth patterns is needed when planning a new aquascape.

Cheers.


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## TDI-line (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

I like it Chump, very nice.


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## chump54 (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> It looks nice.
> 
> The one thing I will say is that with all the time you have spent on deciding your hardscape, you may find that you will loose the rocks and a small part of your wood, which would be a shame considering the amount of time and thought you have put into it.
> 
> ...



thanks Graeme, I'm expecting quite a lot of the hardscape to be covered by the plants, but in my head at least, it is the suggestion of the hardscape that will create the mood. It will be interesting to see how it goes. is there a particular issue you can for see with the plant choice?


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## chump54 (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> I like it Chump, very nice.


thanks tdi


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## Graeme Edwards (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> Graeme Edwards said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No mate, not at all, only the growth will cover much of your hardscape, but thats what you where expecting. All the plants and positions look great to me.

 8)


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## skinz180189 (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

When that grows out I can see it looking brilliant chump.


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## chump54 (14 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

thanks again Graeme, it'll be interesting to see how this turns out, my 2 other scapes were not really planed and evolved not really with a great deal of control either    with this one I've got a idea about what I'm aiming for... we'll see!



			
				skinz180189 said:
			
		

> When that grows out I can see it looking brilliant chump.


thanks skinz, I have to say that the photo does make it feel quite flat at the mo, so hopefully my photography will improve and as the plants fill out I can create a sense of light and shadow...


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## chump54 (27 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

ok, an update.

I'm happy with the amount of growth but the water is not as clear as I'd like, but I'm sure it will be at some point   





do you think I should trim the e tenellus along the front? or is it a bit early, only been 2 weeks? or should I have already?

cheers

Chris


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## rawr (27 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

It's looking great! You've got off to an excellent start.

I haven't kept Tenellus before, but if my memory isn't too rusty - it's best to trim it and be aggressive with it to promote good new growth from early on.

Hope that helps.


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## Tony Swinney (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

Hi Chump

This tank looks really nice - I was wondering what the wood was in the 'dry' pics as it looked so black, but now its under water and has its redness back I guess its redmoor ?

I've been told that if you trim the E Tennelus at this stage it will grow back shorter (say 60mm) and redder, where as if you leave it be it will stay greener and longer - this is what I've done and some of mine is 150mm.

Keep us posted   

Tony


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## chump54 (28 Jul 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

thanks guys,

how short should i trim the tenellus do you think? I found a thread that Saintly talks about trimming his but I'm not sure how low to go (are you there Saintly  ). I'm thinking about 2cm??? I think 150mm would be too much at the front.

Tonser, the wood is (dead) Heather, found locally. it was very black when I first soaked it, but when I put it in the previous tank, the bark seemed to be rotting and was growing some nice BBA. Its a shame I liked the blackness, but I scrubbed it with a wire brush and it's gone a nice red (but not as nice as the black). I think removing the bark was the safest option.

Chris


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## chump54 (14 Sep 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

quick update




removed the reflectors... not sure if that is the right thing to do, but I feel more in control and the odd bit of BBA I was getting has not returned... (although there is the odd bit still to deal with)

oh and trimming the e-tennelus worked a treat it has stayed really low, thanks all who suggested it


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## Mark Evans (16 Sep 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

oooops, sorry matey. 



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> how short should i trim the tenellus do you think? I found a thread that Saintly talks about trimming his but I'm not sure how low to go (are you there Saintly



looks like you did good. tenellus is a tough cooky to kill. trim it down to about 1 cm, and it will come back shorter. trimming also stuns it's progress though. with a foreground like yours, maybe wait long periods before touching it. i trimmed once in autumn blush, and that was all it required. but then i wanted it to stay in one place rather than the carpet look.

it's a real nice layout youve got going.


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## chump54 (16 Sep 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

hey no worries... 1 cm worked a treat, it has stayed very low... why does it do that? anyone know?


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## Mark Evans (16 Sep 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> why does it do that? anyone know?



dont know why,but a nice effect all the same.


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## chump54 (9 Nov 2009)

*Re: new scape attempts (now in tank with plants)*

added an UP co2 inline atomiser, while it does give the tank a fizzy feel. it has improved my plant growth in only a few days. plants are pearling after an hour or so. and e tenellus is growing much better   





I'm not liking the right hand side, where the blyxa is, not the right colour or leaf shape.


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## chump54 (28 Nov 2009)

I'm liking the up co2 atomiser.









I would like to say thanks to everyone for the advice I've been given or picked up from everyone here, I feel like I'm growing plants rather than struggling/hoping they grow.

it's all about the co2      

thanks everyone   

Chris


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## andyh (28 Nov 2009)

Got any pics of your up co2 atomiser ? I have just ordered one myself.
So your happy with it?


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## chump54 (28 Nov 2009)

yeah very happy, the only down side is the amount of mist reaching the tank. but I have got a very yellow DC so might back it off a bit once I've got over my pearling obsession. 
on the plus side the mist gives you a good idea on the flow patterns. it's a very fine mist the bubbles are so small they don't reach the surface. I have a much lower bubble rate as a result. I do have the working pressure set quite high to get the bubbles to come through, about 1.6 bar. I had a trouble getting a stable rate to start with but I reconnected all the lines to the solenoid, bubble counter and the atomiser and it has been fine for a couple of weeks. 








don't look at the dirty pipes... i'll do them next water change (honestly)


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## andyh (28 Nov 2009)

chump54 said:
			
		

> yeah very happy, the only down side is the amount of mist reaching the tank. but I have got a very yellow DC so might back it off a bit once I've got over my pearling obsession.
> on the plus side the mist gives you a good idea on the flow patterns. it's a very fine mist the bubbles are so small they don't reach the surface. I have a much lower bubble rate as a result. I do have the working pressure set quite high to get the bubbles to come through, about 1.6 bar. I had a trouble getting a stable rate to start with but I reconnected all the lines to the solenoid, bubble counter and the atomiser and it has been fine for a couple of weeks.
> 
> don't look at the dirty pipes... i'll do them next water change (honestly)



I like the sound of this mist, i think it will distribute the CO2 more successfully in my tank and help get it to the lower levels.

I have heard you actually use less CO2 as its more efficient. (that sounds good!)

Didn't see any dirty pipes!  

Thanks.
Andyh


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## chump54 (6 Dec 2009)

added some more wood, I'm still not 100% happy with the right hand side but I think it's better,



what do you think ?

Chris


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## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2009)

i'm liking the new wood.


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## chump54 (6 Dec 2009)

cheers Mark, 

I'm thinking about trimming the E tenellus back, but I'm switching to 100% tap water which is really hard, 28gh and I think (from what I've read) that Etenellus prefers soft - medium water so I don't want to make it more stressful for the plants than it is already going to be. so maybe I'll try a small section to see how it goes.

Chris


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## CeeJay (6 Dec 2009)

Chris

This is a lovely scape.
Just for your info. I grew E. tenellus in hard tap water in my last set up and didn't have any problems.
I don't know if the change over will cause you any problems though.

Chris


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## chump54 (7 Dec 2009)

thanks Chris, thats good to know, do you know how hard it was? 

Chris


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## chump54 (12 Dec 2009)

just trimmed the E tenellus and acicularis, a test to see if everything is ok...



should I go shorter its about 2cm?

Chris


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## CeeJay (13 Dec 2009)

Hi Chris
Sorry for the delay in replying, I missed this one   


			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> thanks Chris, thats good to know, do you know how hard it was?


Sorry, I couldn't test my water hardness  .  Test kits were consigned to the dustbin about 9 months ago   
I'm in the Thames water region and just downloaded their water quality report. 
The Hardness readings were as follows:
mgl CaC03 286
Degrees Clarke 20
Degrees German (DH) 16
Degrees French 28.6

Hope that's of use.

All I know is my plants love it   .
I'm still loving this tank by the way  . 

Chris


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## chump54 (13 Dec 2009)

chrisr01 said:
			
		

> Hi Chris
> 
> mgl CaC03 286
> Degrees Clarke 20
> ...




thanks Chris, 

my water is 28.7 German...   so we'll see what happens.


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## Kevina (24 Dec 2009)

Atomiser looks interesting, any chance of explaining how it all fits together?
Regards Kev.


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## hydrophyte (24 Dec 2009)

THis is a beautiful setup. Has it been low-maintenance?


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## chump54 (24 Dec 2009)

hydrophyte said:
			
		

> THis is a beautiful setup. Has it been low-maintenance?


Thanks,
and, yes quite low. the blyxa is the highest maintenance but thats not too bad really. I thought the ET and acicularis would be an issue but so far they are ok.

I'm trying to come up with a solution to the right hand side, I'm not happy with the blyxa. I'm also thinking about a long leaved plant possibly a vallis or juncus repens  for the back. anyone have any thoughts?

Chris


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## chump54 (27 Dec 2009)

Kevina said:
			
		

> Atomiser looks interesting, any chance of explaining how it all fits together?
> Regards Kev.




Sorry I forgot about your post. The atomiser is great would recommend it. check out viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8959&start=0 for a nice review. sorry I haven't got time at the mo   

so far so good   

Chris


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## Kevina (27 Dec 2009)

Thanks Chris the link explains all.
Regards Kev.


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## chump54 (19 Feb 2010)

little update, not the best pictures... didn't have my tripod.





recently trimmed the ET.

Chris


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## Nelson (19 Feb 2010)

i'm so impressed with this  .
well done mate  .


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## chump54 (20 Feb 2010)

thanks Neil. 

Chris


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## willgaze (25 Feb 2010)

Lovely looking tank. I was wondering how you're trimming the E.tenellus, are you cutting out old long leaves at the base? 
Cheers
Will


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## chump54 (25 Feb 2010)

thanks Will, it's not that precise, it might not be the best way but I just pick a level (about 1 to 2 cm) and trim it with scissors. It does seem to make it grow redder and shorter. 

Chris


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## Mark Evans (25 Feb 2010)

looking great chump


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## chump54 (25 Feb 2010)

thanks saintly   

C


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## willgaze (28 Feb 2010)

That's interesting as I have been having trouble with my E. tennelus, as I decreased light to reduce alage and ended up with 8" E. tennelus which was not what I anticipated. I will try cutting through leaves and see if I can make it more compact.
Cheers,
Will


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## chump54 (28 Feb 2010)

willgaze said:
			
		

> That's interesting as I have been having trouble with my E. tennelus, as I decreased light to reduce alage and ended up with 8" E. tennelus which was not what I anticipated. I will try cutting through leaves and see if I can make it more compact.
> Cheers,
> Will


go for it


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## Tony Swinney (28 Feb 2010)

Lovely looking scape chump - very nice   

Tony


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## chump54 (28 Feb 2010)

Tonser said:
			
		

> Lovely looking scape chump - very nice
> 
> Tony



Thanks Tony, congratulations on surviving the first 10 weeks   I've got 3 boys, oldest is 7, youngest is 1 (and a bit)


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## Tony Swinney (28 Feb 2010)

Thanks chump, though I need to change my sig - she was 6 months old yesterday !!!


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## chump54 (28 Feb 2010)

Tonser said:
			
		

> Thanks chump, though I need to change my sig - she was 6 months old yesterday !!!


   6 months... congratulation on 6 months...   

looking forward to that discus rescape 

Chris


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## chump54 (6 Apr 2010)

Hi,
 I'm going to remove the ET from the front and side I want to try some cryptocoryne parva. If anyone wants some PM me Â£3.50 (inc p&p) a portion it'll come with free Eleocharis acicularis... it's all mixed in.





what are your experiences with cryptocoryne parva? any thoughts on how it'll look? and how much to get?

Chris


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## chump54 (29 Jul 2010)

done a little bit of a rescape, moved some of the rock and cleaned out the fern... a lot of stuff came out, plus anubius seems to have suffered from being 'under' the fern. so moved part of it out. I bought some crypts sold as parva but I'm not sure it is. It was very large when it arrived but we'll see what we get when it recovers from the trimming I gave it. 


so rescaped last night and just done a water change so it's still a bit cloudy.


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## Mark Evans (29 Jul 2010)

What's happened to my fave tennellus carpet?....

It's what re-scapes are for I guess, to advance, learn and move on. Do you feel you could of 'pushed' the re-scape a little more chumps?... You've got the skills mate,


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## chump54 (29 Jul 2010)

thanks Mark, I wish I had the time... (and the money )... I didn't even mean to rescape... one minute I was doing a water change the next minute I had the fern out getting rid of the build up. I did move some of the rocks on the righthand side and angled them towards the front. It's not very obvious in the pic, but it has created a huge amount of depth. 

just looking back at the ET and it was quite nice. I might go for a glosso carpet next, never grown it, and it's such a nice plant. At the mo I'm attempting a crypt based 'carpet' so it'll be a while before I change that.

anyway next rescape will be proper, want to try some graded gravels and better wood for the next one 

Chris


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## George Farmer (29 Jul 2010)

I've just read through your whole journal, Chris.  It's really good work and I really like the 'scape.

I'm sure whatever you choose to do will look great.

Keep up the good work!


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## chump54 (30 Jul 2010)

Thanks George


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## chump54 (16 Aug 2010)

ok... going low tech. my co2 "ran out" yesterday... dumped last bit into the tank and upset the fish. so I turned it off and the fish recovered well. so well in fact, it hit home that they really were struggling with the amount of co2 I was using. 

so I'm going for a lowtech tank. (I'm going to remove the shrimp from my nano and go over the top with the co2 on that.)

54watts of light seems too much to me has anyone out there tried a lowtech tank an a rio 125 with the standard lights?

anyone got any idea how to reduce the lighting without raising the light unit up? I have a mad idea that I could use a permanent pen and  draw lines over the tubes... not really adjustable though.   

Chris


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## whinnie (20 Feb 2012)

love it, ive got a rio 125 and wanting to dip in to planted tanks, this gives me hope that i might be able to produce something remotely decent


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