# Low tech 30 inch deep



## Regent (8 Jun 2019)

I'm currently buying all of the bits for my new tank, it's 36"long x 24" wide x 30" deep. It also has a complete glass top.

I'm looking for suggestions for lighting with an aim to grow low light plants and I'm getting a bit confused!
I think the best option is probably dense matrix led lights due to their penetration through the water column. The obvious option is Kessil, but I just can't justify the cost of a pair.

I have looked at the TMC lights but they seem lacking in power, the next option is AI prime freshwater, but they're not much cheaper than the Kessil.

Another option would be to use a more diffuse light such as the Fluval 3.0/twinstar/chihiros.
I'd be happy to diy something but it would have to look reasonable.

For some reason, the whole aquarium lighting thing feels like a total rip off!


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## Edvet (8 Jun 2019)

T5's ?


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## Tim Harrison (8 Jun 2019)

If it's low-energy then you don't need to worry light penetration that much since lighting will need to be low intensity anyway. Too much light will just induce algae. Twinstar S series will be fine. But whatever LED you choose make sure it has a dimmer, so you can control the light intensity.


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## Regent (9 Jun 2019)

Thanks Tim, that's really good news! Just wanted to make sure I had adequate par at the substrate. Yes the plan is low energy and either tropica aquarium soil or fitted with a sand cap, but I'm not sure I can tolerate the potential mixing..

What dimmer would people recommend?


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## Tim Harrison (9 Jun 2019)

This is the one most use with the Twinstar https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/led-controllerdimmer-for-twinstar-lights-3615-p.asp
There are a few threads on it too https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...r-add-sunrise-sunset-to-your-led-light.53052/


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## Regent (9 Jun 2019)

I have had a quick read around can anyone who has seen them give me a quick rundown of the twinstar S vs chihiros are they really worth that much more without built-in diming?


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## alto (9 Jun 2019)

Your said low tech but what are you actually wanting to grow?

Any sort of carpet effect?

Mostly epiphytes?

There are some excellent DIY LED threads on ukaps, having the effort look good just depends on your skills


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## Tim Harrison (9 Jun 2019)

The build quality of the Twinstar is much better. The colour rendition of the Twinstar is perhaps better, but that's a matter of preference. And I think the Twinstar is more powerful.
But at the end of the day it's really about what is suitable for you, your budget, and your tank. Both will grow plants just fine.
If you're planning on a low-energy scape then I suppose the Chihiros would do fine. If you can, try and see both in operation somewhere, it might help to make your mind up.

But for now take a look at Choosing a Light by the 2 hr Aquarist. There are other light comparisons out there...


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## Regent (9 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Your said low tech but what are you actually wanting to grow?
> 
> Any sort of carpet effect?
> 
> ...



I'm not averse to a bit of diy, but having just spent a while planning and building the stand I'm at the point I'd like something running, then I'll add to it!

To be honest I'm planning to experiment a bit, starting with crypts, vallis and epiphytes.
My aims are initially something along the lines of
https://pbase.com/plantella/330hnlme

Being more adventurous as time goes on... id love to achieve something like this:
https://tropica.com/en/inspiration/layout/Layout108/21195


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## Regent (9 Jun 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> The build quality of the Twinstar is much better. The colour rendition of the Twinstar is perhaps better, but that's a matter of preference. And I think the Twinstar is more powerful.
> But at the end of the day it's really about what is suitable for you, your budget, and your tank. Both will grow plants just fine.
> If you're planning on a low-energy scape then I suppose the Chihiros would do fine. If you can, try and see both in operation somewhere, it might help to make your mind up.
> 
> But for now take a look at Choosing a Light by the 2 hr Aquarist. There are other light comparisons out there...



Thanks, Tim thats's a great help.
On that video about the WRGB60 is my favourite. The vivid looks a bit odd!

I'm actually quite happy to spend money on the tank and my budget isn't as limited as it may sound and I will pay for quality, I just don't like wasting money!
I'm in the Midlands, I'll have a look for any shops that may carry appropriate lights!


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## Tim Harrison (9 Jun 2019)

Regent said:


> Being more adventurous as time goes on... id love to achieve something like this:
> https://tropica.com/en/inspiration/layout/Layout108/21195


I guess then you'd perhaps be better with something like the Twnstar, it's maybe a little more future proof, and should be powerful enough to be able to grow a Marsilea hirsuta or MC carpet even at depth.
But then to do it well you're really going to need to inject CO2 as well, at least enough to turn a drop checker green. Even MH won't carpet very well without CO2.


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## Regent (9 Jun 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> I guess then you'd perhaps be better with something like the Twnstar, it's maybe a little more future proof, and should be powerful enough to be able to grow a Marsilea hirsuta or MC carpet even at depth.
> But then to do it well you're really going to need to inject CO2 as well, at least enough to turn a drop checker green. Even MH won't carpet very well without CO2.



I'm aware that that layout is beyond me at present.. I have been offered a co2 injection set by a friend I'm just not really ready to commit to that from the start! 

It sounds like the twinstar is the way to go.
The light that keeps catching my eye is the Fluval 3.0, mainly because it includes a dimmer app and has a three-year warranty. I should be able to go an see that easily. 
I could also have two of them sat across the top quite easily. the twinstar has a nicer design though!


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## alto (10 Jun 2019)

Regent said:


> The light that keeps catching my eye is the Fluval 3.0, mainly because it includes a dimmer app and has a three-year warranty.


On a 75cm deep tank, I’d not bother with the Fluval 3.0 ... there’s a reason it’s cheaper than Twinstar 

I have a couple of 55cm tanks that I’ve run for years 
Recently I picked up an ADA 60P - light is so easy on a 36cm tall tank 

Presently you’re wanting to run a CO2 limited system, I wouldn’t make the system light limited as well (obviously this is not the same as high light which you want to avoid in absence of added CO2) 

If possible, find display shops with the various light systems (or a shop that will allow returns) ... Kessil is very different light effect than Twinstar etc 
Note that stacking up on LED units is not the same as getting light down to substrate level in deeper tanks - you need higher power LEDs and suitable drivers and internal reflectors and good lens (which is all part of Kessil higher cost + built/designed in USA + all metal construction)

(I finally switched from T5 to Kessil a few years ago - light options are fairly limited here - I did find a Fluval 2.0 and a couple other LEDs to try, but depth penetration was much less than my old T5 system (granted it was HOT5 with high efficiency reflectors))

Charterhouse offers Aqua Medic’s Qube Plant LED - they should come in significantly lower cost than Kessil
though they don’t seem to have made much impact after 2years (or more?) on the market


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## Regent (10 Jun 2019)

Thanks Alto! (And everyone, this is such an amazingly friendly helpful place! All the advice is much appreciated and hopefully I can return some of it in the future..)

I'm trying to track down somewhere to go and view the different lights. Going with my gut says that the Kessils are likely overkill at the moment but that their ability to get light to depth is probably unrivalled, I also quite like the shimmer effect.
Twinstar is probably the one I will go with and if I need spot lighting I can alway add to it later.

I work in a very scientific industry and I find the lack of consistent testing and data provided by many manufactures tricky!


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## dw1305 (10 Jun 2019)

Hi all,





Regent said:


> I work in a very scientific industry and I find the lack of consistent testing and data provided by many manufactures tricky!


Unfortunately it is a recurring theme in the sellers of products for the aquarium.

cheers Darrel


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## alto (10 Jun 2019)

Regent said:


> consistent testing and data provided by many manufactures tricky


That’s a whole nother lot of money  
(and maybe reality )

Many manufacturers design/develop a light unit, but then place it out for actual build, each run may have different LEDs, driver etc depending .....  as long as criteria are met


Sanjay Joshi has done a lot of _good_ light analysis for his Advanced Aquarist articles ... but then he’s also had (lawyerly polite) requests from manufacturers to remove his data


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## Regent (11 Jun 2019)

These are all good points, I do like a bit of consistent testing!

I can understand manufacturers not wanting to test themselves but asking people to remove tests is annoying. Unless they're factually inaccurate of course. (I do like the par testing in the lighting thread on here!)


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## Regent (20 Jun 2019)

Sorry to come back with another lighting question!

I had settled on the twinstar 900s however talking to my LFS they don't feel one bar style light is enough for a 24 inch wide peninsula tank as there will be plants growing on either side with hardscape in the middle. what are your thoughts about this?
They also recommended spot style lights to get light to the bottom even for low light plants.

I have abandoned the idea of carpeting the bottom of this tank (i'll buy another tank if that's what I want) I'm mainly interested in crypts, swords, ferns and moss. I would however like something red if possible.
I'm at the point of considering diy options as the cost of two twin star lights is crazy. However, i'm not really sure where to start.


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## rebel (20 Jun 2019)

Yes, I think they may be right. If you want to go cheap, try Chihiros RGB or Chihiros A plus (even cheaper).


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## Regent (20 Jun 2019)

I'm not aiming for cheap really. But £700 for two twinstars is more than kessil or ai prime. I really don't want fans on the lights if I can help it though!

I guess I'm still just weighing my options.


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## Andrew Butler (20 Jun 2019)

Regent said:


> I'm not aiming for cheap really. But £700 for two twinstars is more than kessil or ai prime. I really don't want fans on the lights if I can help it though!
> 
> I guess I'm still just weighing my options.


£700 for the Twinstar S - you are thinking 2x then?
Have a chat with Dave at Aquarium Gardens and he will speak with Ricardo from Twinstar EU if there's any queries over the need for 2.

Twinstar SP have an awful way of being suspended so the SA version might suit.
AI prime freshwater light are awful in my opinion - even the HD version.
Kesssil are good but are a pain to suspend and even then it's DIY.


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## Regent (20 Jun 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> £700 for the Twinstar S - you are thinking 2x then?
> Have a chat with Dave at Aquarium Gardens and he will speak with Ricardo from Twinstar EU if there's any queries over the need for 2.
> 
> Twinstar SP have an awful way of being suspended so the SA version might suit.
> ...



Hi Andrew,
Only because the lfs seem to think a single one won't adequately light both sides of a 24 inch wide penisular? I'll give aquarium gardens a ring, good plan.
I really did pick a stupid size tank  
Thanks for the feedback on the prime! I like the idea of the WiFi control that's all!


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