# EI Advice - shopping list and measurements



## madlan (1 May 2011)

Hi All,

I'm starting to plan my dosing regime in preparation for my new setup. Could you check my chemicals and measurements are ok below?

My tank volume is 323 litres, and hi-tech (4x T5 (54w) with Co2 (via an AM1000))
Dosing will be automated from a single solution via a Williamson dosing pump that I’ve measured to 2ml a minute consistently.

My shopping list is:
Potassium nitrate
Potassium sulphate
mono potassium phosphate
Magnesium sulphate
Trace Elements
Ascorbic Acid
Potassium Sorbate

Are these all required? Anything else I should be adding? The water is quite hard here so not sure if that negates the MgSO4?

My tap water is:
pH 7.2
GH 340 mg/L (ppm)
KH 260 mg/L (ppm)

Based on my understanding of LondonDragons thread and using NutriCalc I believe I need to dose these amounts daily:

KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = (5.3x35x3)/7 = 79.5g
K2S04 (Potassium sulphate) = (2.4x35x3)/7 = 36g
KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) = (1.5x35x3)/7 = 22.5g
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulphate) = (13.8x35x3)/7 = 207g
Trace = (1x35x3)/7 = 15g
How much Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate will I need? 

I’m stuck on what volume of water I need to dissolve the above in and how many minutes to set the timer for (based on 2ml a minute), if anyone could advise?


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## CeeJay (2 May 2011)

Hi madlan


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Based on my understanding of LondonDragons thread and using NutriCalc I believe I need to dose these amounts daily:
> 
> KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = (5.3x35x3)/7 = 79.5g
> K2S04 (Potassium sulphate) = (2.4x35x3)/7 = 36g
> ...


  
Seems like an awful lot to be dosing daily.
If you went full on EI, from the EI dosing tutorial, a 20 gallon tank only needs 9/16 of a teaspoon of KNO3 per week. As your is an 85 gallon tank (call it 90 gallon and multiply everything by 4.5), you will only need about 2.5 teaspoons per week, which is about 15g.
Haven't checked the rest, but at a glance they look high to me.



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Are these all required?


Most of us don't use the K2SO4 as it is only used for it's K content. As you've already got KNO3 just add more of that, as that has K in it too. One less thing to buy   .



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Anything else I should be adding?


You've got it all covered.



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> he water is quite hard here so not sure if that negates the MgSO4?


I would suggest you start your first batch using it and gradually back it off a bit each time you mix a batch and keep an eye out for any deficiencies in the plants. The chances are you won't need it in a hard water area. 

Perhaps you could give us the link to LD's thread, ( I can't say I remember it   ) and we''ll see where you went wrong.


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> How much Ascorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate will I need?


This is dependent on how much water you end up using. The general rule of thumb is 0.5g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.2g Potassium Sorbate per 500ml of solution.

To give you a rough idea, on a 180l,  I use 6 teaspoons KNO3 (about 36g), 2 teaspoons KH2PO4 (about 12g) and 1.5 teaspoons (about 10g), chuck it all in a bottle (500ml) with 0.5g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.2g Potassium Sorbate and dose 20ml per day every day. That lasts me 25 days.  
As the EI tutorial states, nothing is set in stone, as long as you get those amounts into the tank per month, at regular intervals, it's job done.
I went away from dosing Macros and Trace on alternate days, cos I'm a bit hazy in the mornings and can never remember did I dose this or that yesterday   .
As my tank is approximately half the size of yours, just double up on everything, including the water and dose 50ml per day, every day (set your timer for 25 minutes).
Any other queries, just holler   .


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## madlan (3 May 2011)

That's great Chris, makes much more sense now!

That was meant to read monthly rather than weekly! Here’s the thread I mentioned: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5024
As you can see I've just scaled up from LD's values. 

NEW shopping list is:
Potassium nitrate
mono potassium phosphate
Magnesium sulphate
Trace Elements
Ascorbic Acid
Potassium Sorbate

Dosing solution will be:

KNO3 (Potassium nitrate) = 72g
KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate) = 24g
MgSO4 (Magnesium sulphate) = 207g
Trace = 20g

I was thinking of using 500ml of water and doubling on your levels so the pump was on for less time. 13 minutes would give me 26ml of double dose. What do you think? Or would it be saturated in 500ml? I could replace the hose on the pump to give 4.5ml\min to reduce the amount of time the pumps running if required.

Are there any issues making several months of solution up at a time?
Any recommendations for a supply of trace elements?
Do I dose these levels from day one?

Thanks again,
Alan


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## CeeJay (3 May 2011)

Hi Alan


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> That was meant to read monthly


Phew   



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> I was thinking of using 500ml of water and doubling on your levels so the pump was on for less time.


I can see where you're heading with this. Check out this link James Planted Tank for maximum saturation of any of the given powders. You need to go to Dosing methods/Dosing calculator and scroll to the bottom of the page. Can't post a direct link on my PC at work   
I think you're inside the values quoted.



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Are there any issues making several months of solution up at a time?


I've only ever made up a 2 month batch, but James states that his All in One solution stays clear and bright for up to 6 months. The chemicals are the same, just that the mix is a lot stronger  



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Any recommendations for a supply of trace elements?


Site sponsors, Aquaessentials or Fluidsensoronline. I've used both and both work well.



			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Do I dose these levels from day one?


Now there seems to be some differing opinions on this one, but personally I aways start from day one. 
My theory is, I want to give my plants the best start possible, so I don't want them wasting their energy scavenging for nutrients with the risk of suffering an algae attack. Has never caused me any problems


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## madlan (3 May 2011)

Thanks Chris, very helpful. I've ordered 1kg of each, except the trace (250g) and preservatives (50g each). Should last a while!

I'll let you know how it goes once I start mixing\dosing!

Thanks
Alan


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## CeeJay (4 May 2011)

Hi Alan


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Should last a while!


A long while   


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> I'll let you know how it goes once I start mixing\dosing!


Always interested to hear how you get on   
When you mix your first batch, you will find you have loads left in the tubs or bags and you will quickly realise that it's going to last you ages   
As far as quantities go you will use them the most in this order 
MgSO4 (but you may well get this down to zero eventually)
KNO3 followed by
KH2PO4 followed by
Trace
All of a sudden it is very cheap to dose a planted tank


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## madlan (7 May 2011)

Ta da!





Clockwise: Potassium nitrate, mono potassium phosphate, Magnesium sulphate, Ascorbic Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Trace Elements.


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## CeeJay (7 May 2011)

Hi Alan

That's you sorted for a good while


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## sr20det (7 May 2011)

Where did u get from?

Cant make out the text on the picture.


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## madlan (8 May 2011)

Ascorbic Acid, Potassium Sorbate and Trace Elements from Aquarium Plantfood UK, the rest from eBay.


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## foxfish (8 May 2011)

I dont think you can find an easier or better dosing calculator than this one http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/calcul ... ive-index/


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## madlan (8 May 2011)

It doesn't calculate for a single solution dosed daily, looks great otherwise.


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## CeeJay (8 May 2011)

Hi Alan


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> It doesn't calculate for a single solution dosed daily, looks great otherwise.


Then let's work it out   . 

According to the calculator linked to in the previous post, using your original figure of 323 litres, you need to dose the following per week
15g KNO3
5.7 KH2PO4
36g MgSo4
2.6g Trace 

Multiply all that by 4 for a 4 week supply
60g KNO3
22.8g KH2PO4
144g MgSO4
10.4g Trace

Don't forget to add your 1g of Ascorbic Acid and 0.4g of Poatassium Sorbate as well.
Now if you add that lot to 1000ml water and divide by 28 (days in 4 weeks), this gives you you're daily dose.
1000/28 = 35.7ml per dose. I don't know how you'll measure that crazy number, so I would just dose 40ml per day and have done with it.
If you were to use their "stock solution' figures, you would be mixing Macros once a fortnight. Using these figures you will only have to mix it up one bottle once every 4 weeks   

No need to worry about being mega precise.  
The original EI stuff is based on plant uptake in a high light, 5-6wpg at 12 hours a day. If you run any less (either wpg or hours), which just about all of us do, then you will actually be overdosing anyway. 
I've been doing this for about 3 months now and haven't seen any negative effects   .

As the whole idea of making the solution acidic to prevent the Phosphates reacting with the Trace, I always put the Ascorbic acid in first. The rest can go in, in any order you like  

So there you have it. Clear as mud


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## madlan (9 May 2011)

Thanks Chris, thats helped I think!   

I've got 4 x 54w T5 lights over 323 litres so thats about 3wpg? Running Co2 at about 30ppm.
Do you leave the solution with Ascorbic acid for any length of time before adding the rest?

Thanks


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## CeeJay (9 May 2011)

Hi Alan


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> I've got 4 x 54w T5 lights over 323 litres so thats about 3wpg? Running Co2 at about 30ppm.


  Thats a lot of light, especially being T5's. You'll need to be on top of your game with the maintenance.  Might be an idea to start off with 2 lamps and go up to 4 lamps when you have everything like CO2 delivery and flow etc. sorted out.


			
				madlan said:
			
		

> Do you leave the solution with Ascorbic acid for any length of time before adding the rest?


The solution goes acidic as soon as you add the Ascorbic acid, so no need to wait.
I just give a little shake to mix it with the water properly and then just add everything else


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## madlan (17 May 2011)

Just realised the lighting is actually 4x 39w!!


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## plantbrain (18 May 2011)

Use 1/2 this light amount.  :idea: 

More than enough to grow anything well.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## CeeJay (18 May 2011)

Hi Madlan





			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> Use 1/2 this light amount.
> 
> More than enough to grow anything well.
> 
> ...


And that's from a man who knows a thing or two about planted tanks


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