# Tropical soil buffering and shrimp



## Donna Watts (3 Mar 2019)

Hi all

Back in December I took the plunge and created a planted nano.
I couldn't  be happier with the plant growth and health however I have a problem.
I introduced a small number of cherry shrimp. Quickly I noticed they were showing signs of poor moulting and then dying.
After a bit of research I have found this problem is down low GH and KH.

My problem is that I'm using tap Water with a GH of 18 but the tropica soil is pulling nearly all of the GH out and all of the KH.

I have been doing a 2 litre water changes every other day for over 3 weeks and I'm fighting a losing battle.

The conditions just don't meet those that are needed for cherries.
Is there any way to combat this?

Here is the tank



 

Thanks


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## tam (3 Mar 2019)

Are you sure that's the issue? I've tropica soil and I'm starting with water that's only GH6/7 and my cherries are doing fine. In fairness don't test the GH in the tank but I'm not seeing dramatic TDS reduction either. Have you tested your water or are you just assuming poor moult = low GH = you must have a low GH?


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## dw1305 (3 Mar 2019)

Hi all,





Donna Watts said:


> I couldn't be happier with the plant growth and health


The plants look very good.





Donna Watts said:


> I have been doing a 2 litre water changes every other day for over 3 weeks and I'm fighting a losing battle.


You could change a bit more water. Because we have very hard tap water the ion exchange capacity of the active substrate will soon be exhausted (basically it will have stopped exchanging H+ ions for Ca++ions). The more water you change the quicker this will happen.

I found Cherry shrimps do pretty well in our tap water (I live in Corsham), but they struggled a bit in the winter in the tanks that use rain-water. 

You could also try feeding the shrimps a calcium supplement, leafy green veg (broccoli or nettle leaves). and  a bit of cuttle bone (sold for cage birds) would be my suggestion.

cheers Darrel


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## Donna Watts (3 Mar 2019)

tam said:


> Are you sure that's the issue? I've tropica soil and I'm starting with water that's only GH6/7 and my cherries are doing fine. In fairness don't test the GH in the tank but I'm not seeing dramatic TDS reduction either. Have you tested your water or are you just assuming poor moult = low GH = you must have a low GH?



Yes I'm sure this is my problem. The shrimp show what is known as the ring of death for about 1 week then pass away. This is a symptom of a poor moult. This then made me check my water hardness in the tank only to find KH 0 and GH of 4.
This was a shock due to the hardness of the water out of the tap.
The TDS also reduces quite a lot.


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## Donna Watts (3 Mar 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,The plants look very good.You could change a bit more water. Because we have very hard tap water the ion exchange capacity of the active substrate will soon be exhausted (basically it will have stopped exchanging H+ ions for Ca++ions). The more water you change the quicker this will happen.
> 
> I found Cherry shrimps do pretty well in our tap water (I live in Corsham), but they struggled a bit in the winter in the tanks that use rain-water.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info on the cuttle bone. I am feeding broccoli once a week. Do you just put a small bit of the bone in the tank?

I'm reluctant to change too much water at once as the tank is only small and I didn't want to shock the shrimp.

Hopfully the ion exchange exhausts it's self sooner rather than later then.

Thanks


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## dw1305 (3 Mar 2019)

Hi all,





Donna Watts said:


> Do you just put a small bit of the bone in the tank?


Yes.





Donna Watts said:


> I'm reluctant to change too much water at once as the tank is only small and I didn't want to shock the shrimp.


I'm not sure I would worry with Cherry shrimps, they are pretty robust. I'm a great believer <"in water changes">. 

You can get figures from your water supplier, but because of the dGH you can be pretty sure it is water from a limestone aquifer, either chalk or Jurassic age limestone.  Our supply is pretty low in everything other than Ca++ and HCO3- ions.

cheers Darrel


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## Donna Watts (3 Mar 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes.I'm not sure I would worry with Cherry shrimps, they are pretty robust. I'm a great believer <"in water changes">.
> 
> You can get figures from your water supplier, but because of the dGH you can be pretty sure it is water from a limestone aquifer, either chalk or Jurassic age limestone.  Our supply is pretty low in everything other than Ca++ and HCO3- ions.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Your not too far from me so I'm not sure how different our water will be. I'm in swindon.

My water is quite hard here. It also has plenty of nitrate  I think it was 20ppm when i checked it a while ago. I did look up my water a few years back when  keeping marines.

I agree with water changes but i prefer little and often rather than big changes.
Maybe I'm just over cautious..

I don't think it helps that I have so much substrate. I built it up at the back quite heavily not realising how active it was. I probably have around 6 inches depth at the rear of the tank. This may take a while to deplete.


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## dw1305 (3 Mar 2019)

Hi all,





Donna Watts said:


> I think it was 20ppm when i checked it a while ago


Use the figures from Thames Water, but I think you will have a lot more NO3 than we do. The great advantage of planted tanks is that NO3 levels fall, rather than rising in the tank.





Donna Watts said:


> I agree with water changes but i prefer little and often rather than big changes


I'm a little, but often, water changer as well. 

I still think you can change more water, possibly every day rather than every other day? I use rain-water, I just draw it off (from the water butt) the the night before I use it and let it warm up over night. You could do the same with tap water, and that lets it out-gas any chlorine, as well as warming up 

I re-use old six pint milk cartons, so it doesn't matter if they grow algae/leak eventually, they've had a longer "working life" than they were intended for. I change about 10% water a day in the tanks, the only exception is that small volume tanks get a full "6 pint" change, however small they are.

cheers Darrel


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## Mortis (13 Mar 2019)

Supplement their food with blanched spinach or kale. It should help. Also you could try the shrimp mineral blocks/balls


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## HiNtZ (17 Mar 2019)

I have an  RCS tank with Columbo soil, planted - never had any problems.

GH 14
KH10
PH 6.8-7

WC once a week at around 20%, dosing Flora Grow Pro and feeding Shrimp Cuisine.

Sounds like a diet issue - I would have thought what the shrimp can't get from the water they will get from a high quality specialised food. Or, if you have fish in the tank too the shrimp will eat their poo and get minerals that way since fish food is pretty complete.


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## sciencefiction (17 Mar 2019)

Donna Watts said:


> only to find KH 0 and GH of 4.



I think your issue is the KH 0.  Bump that up via water changes with your tap water. If you had fish, you'd have also found out that they don't do well too in that scenario.


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## akwarium (17 Mar 2019)

The most obvious solution is to change the soil. 

Or switch to Caridina shrimp, they prefer soft water...
Or put a small piece of limestone in your filter or tank... continuously adding minerals won't give fluctuations like water changes might.


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