# I'm in need of some composition advise



## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

Hi all,

I'm creating this new Iwagumi aquascape with Amazonia & Seiryu stones.
For now ill stick with one plant called Eleocharis sp. Mini

I've been working on this composition but i would love some pro scapers advise!
The pictures are stored on my OneDrive so please take a look with this link;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrHJ_8YjlyCVn-0y7
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrHJ_8YjlyCVn-0y7
You pro's can probably see wich adjustments i can make to make this a typical fingerlicking Iwagumi!
p.s. the last picture is the current composition.

Thanks in advance!


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## Mikeba (2 Aug 2016)

Not a pro myself but as I'm doing an Iwagumi atm I thought I would pitch in. 

I like the start and you have some interesting rocks there, but I think you need some more rocks in the slope in front to build upwards to the main stones. I would also play a little bit more with the 2 main stones, maybe swap the curvy one out for something with a bit more character. In my current hardscape the main stone is created with 4 seperate stones as I could not get hold of a big main rock, maybe something you can try too?

Hope my feedback helps you out  

Michael


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## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

Thanks for your reply!

It was my intention to stick with 5 stones because i would like to have the Eleocharis to grow in a field arround the stones. I have some more stones but there bigger and have less character (imo).

With the curvy one you mean the primary stone (oyaishi)


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## Mikeba (2 Aug 2016)

Timon Vogelaar said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> 
> It was my intention to stick with 5 stones because i would like to have the Eleocharis to grow in a field arround the stones. I have some more stones but there bigger and have less character (imo).
> 
> With the curvy one you mean the primary stone (oyaishi)


Ah I see and yes I meant the primary stone (I actually thought it where 2 stones put together).


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## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

Lol, i understand. They are one. I've read that its important to choose stones with simulair linings. The other stones that i got are seiryu stones but just look different.

Maybe some other advise?


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## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

New composition;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrHkx1IcWeW0uKBYs

Better?
Advice?


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## Mikeba (2 Aug 2016)

That's already a lot better. Try making your rocks point to one direction, preferably the direction of the water flow in your aquarium. When stones in real life spend a lot of time in one place they will automaticly be pointing in the direction of the flow. 

Have a look at this scape for example. You can see how almost all rocks go with the flow.


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## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

Thanks for your compliment. Funny that you come with this picture! It is one of my favourites...
I'll try to implement your advise! Flow will be going from right to the left so some are in good position.

The front one is laying flat,
Im going to tilt the one on the left leftwize 

My wife said i should make the soils level on de leftside corner 4-5 cm higher. In her opinion it would be more natural, like hill side lowering down to the front of the window. I thought that is not such a bad idea. You?


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## Doubu (2 Aug 2016)

I can't see the original photo but based on the last one but a great start - I feel like the 2 main stones are too similar in size though. You might be better off swapping one of them with a stone 1.5x larger than the second largest stone, vice-versa, and incoporating other stones of different sizes. I also think it's a bit left-heavy right now, it might look more balanced if you moved the furthest stone to the right, a bit further to the right and down more. The stone in the very center also might look more natural by angling it more. Please see my photoshopped photo below... I'm at work so I can only do so much but maybe something like this? Right now the stones are too similar in size so its harder to create scale. If you add some smaller ones in to fill in some areas I think that could also help!


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## Timon Vogelaar (2 Aug 2016)

Wow, stunning picture! I didnt expect this; many thanks!!

The center stone looks like two stones but they are not. So i cant make that adjustment there...
Your totally right about smaller stones. I wished i had those, i only have bigger ones that look very different to the stones i am using now.

Im going to rethink the whole composition. The last picture is how it looks now;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrH-TIh82n_EAz-NH


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## Doubu (2 Aug 2016)

Timon Vogelaar said:


> Wow, stunning picture! I didnt expect this; many thanks!!
> 
> The center stone looks like two stones but they are not. So i cant make that adjustment there...
> Your totally right about smaller stones. I wished i had those, i only have bigger ones that look very different to the stones i am using now.
> ...



It's really starting to come together/appear more balanced. Small stones will help sooo much. What my friends did was actually take a screw driver + hammer and smashed his stones into smaller pieces - it actually worked quite well. I haven't tried as I haven't needed to yet... but it's something you can also consider =D


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## Timon Vogelaar (3 Aug 2016)

Thank you so much for your reply!
Like a writhers block, yesterday i had a scapers block... Did not know what to do to aprove it anymore.

Today is a new day!
i'm going to make some of my stones smaller...

These are five foto's of the current situation from different angles;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrQUA4j29fZmepDKB

Keep your comments comming, it really helps me finding the right direction!!


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## rebel (3 Aug 2016)

Bigger stones could be better. Think twice as big as current.


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## Timon Vogelaar (3 Aug 2016)

Too bad i don't have those ;(

I just made smaller pieces of rock with a grinder, meybe that will make my stones look bigger;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrQg5MO5kamTLW7aB

I will be placing those soon with more pictures comming!


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## Timon Vogelaar (3 Aug 2016)

New composition with smaller rocks included with a total of 7 stones;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrQ8_0vesF2cqeRmg

I am starting to get more and more satisfied...
I'm curious about your opinion?


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## Doubu (3 Aug 2016)

I think this works - and if it was your vision to have stones as it is now you should trust yourself (you have to try something before you know whether you like it or not). If I had to make a suggestion, you may want to lay some stones a bit more horizontal (as a majority of your stones are at the same angle). I'm hesitant to say or suggest too much because I feel like the process of finally coming up with what you want is the most fun aspect of this hobby and I don't want to take away from your experience. I know I've changed my mind a million times and it takes a lot of tries to figure out what exactly you want. I'm going to bet the stones will be moved eventually again anyway... If you are still not completely satisfied, I would say google natural landscapes and see how their stones are positioned =D.


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## Timon Vogelaar (3 Aug 2016)

Doubu said:


> I think this works - and if it was your vision to have stones as it is now you should trust yourself (you have to try something before you know whether you like it or not). If I had to make a suggestion, you may want to lay some stones a bit more horizontal (as a majority of your stones are at the same angle). I'm hesitant to say or suggest too much because I feel like the process of finally coming up with what you want is the most fun aspect of this hobby and I don't want to take away from your experience. I know I've changed my mind a million times and it takes a lot of tries to figure out what exactly you want. I'm going to bet the stones will be moved eventually again anyway... If you are still not completely satisfied, I would say google natural landscapes and see how their stones are positioned =D.



Thank you very much for your comment 

Exactly how you said it " it works ". And your conclusion is right, i am still not 100% satisfied. In one way its fun but i love how some scapers have the natural flow of scaping and it takes me much more time.
I will try the angles to make it more natural. I'm not going to stop till i get this right. 

I liked my first scape but it just wasnt good enough. This time it has got to be perfect. This was my first scape;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrRTsjvuQXj5ajxV2


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## Doubu (3 Aug 2016)

Looks like you will have no issues growing plants! Your hard work will pay off =).


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## Timon Vogelaar (5 Aug 2016)

Hi All, 
After some more scaping i came to be sadisfied with the result. I'd like to share it with you trough OneDrive;
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrSaCZ90p_UDPiEao

Tell me what you think about it!


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## Doozer999 (22 Aug 2016)

Hi there,. I have enjoyed reading this post...and I have learnt a lot - not least that I need a LOT more patience and need to not rush my set-ups...  I need to "play, leave, look, repeat".  I am not artistic... Which makes it tougher!  But I guess that's why I need to take my time more!!

Anyways, just wanted to say that it's reassuring for a newbie to hear and learn the thought processes of those more experienced...  I am going to have a thorough rethink about my next scape(s)...

Out of interest, at the back/behind the stones in your set up there a gap between the rocks and the back of the tank... Is that just filled with the same plants... Or taller ones? Just curious!?

Thanks for an enlightening thread.


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## Timon Vogelaar (22 Aug 2016)

Doozer999 said:


> Hi there,. I have enjoyed reading this post...and I have learnt a lot - not least that I need a LOT more patience and need to not rush my set-ups...  I need to "play, leave, look, repeat".  I am not artistic... Which makes it tougher!  But I guess that's why I need to take my time more!!
> 
> Anyways, just wanted to say that it's reassuring for a newbie to hear and learn the thought processes of those more experienced...  I am going to have a thorough rethink about my next scape(s)...
> 
> ...


Hi Doozer, 
You can follow my journal and see how my scape is now! 

Link is in my signature under this message! 

Indeed! Dont rush, but take your time... 


Timon Vogelaar said:


> Hi All,
> After some more scaping i came to be sadisfied with the result. I'd like to share it with you trough OneDrive;
> https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnYSOrM4d4MPrSaCZ90p_UDPiEao
> 
> Tell me what you think about it!




Verstuurd vanaf mijn HTC One met Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison (22 Aug 2016)

Hi, looks good... bigger rocks may give you more options tho'....it's much easier if you have a good selection of raw materials to choose from, especially when you're just starting out. 

You may find that it all starts to come together quite naturally then.

Also iwagumi is an art form but there are rules/guidlines to help. Take a look at these links, they may help...

http://www.suiseki.com/evaluating/index.html
http://fish-etc.com/aquascaping-main/create-an-iwugami-aquascape


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