# High ammonia on established tank



## Sara_Notfors (31 Jul 2022)

Hi all, 

I've had my 200 L tank that well planted with low fish stock (2 acaras, about 10 rummy nosed tetras and 2-3 black neons) for about 2 years now.  I've got a 1400 L/hr all pond solutions external filter and a single T5 bulb running about 6-7 hours a day as the tank gets some direct sunlight. 
I checked my water the yesterday after 2 tetras died suddenly and had about 0.5 - 1.0 ppm ammonia (!!!). I wasn't able to do anything about it last night but have just done a 50% water change that's brought it down to 0.2 ppm.  What's my best plan of attack for brining it down? Any suggestions as to the cause? 

Thanks in advance for the help, 

Sara


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## Aqua sobriquet (31 Jul 2022)

Apart from the water changes you could try adding some Seachem Stability or something similar?





						Seachem - Stability
					






					seachem.com


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## John q (31 Jul 2022)

Sara_Notfors said:


> What's my best plan of attack for brining it down?


Pictures of the tank would be helpful and I've no idea what caused this, best plan of attack regards bringing ammonia levels down is more water changes.


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## Sara_Notfors (31 Jul 2022)

Sara_Notfors said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've had my 200 L tank that well planted with low fish stock (2 acaras, about 10 rummy nosed tetras and 2-3 black neons) for about 2 years now.  I've got a 1400 L/hr all pond solutions external filter and a single T5 bulb running about 6-7 hours a day as the tank gets some direct sunlight.
> I checked my water the yesterday after 2 tetras died suddenly and had about 0.5 - 1.0 ppm ammonia (!!!). I wasn't able to do anything about it last night but have just done a 50% water change that's brought it down to 0.2 ppm.  What's my best plan of attack for brining it down? Any suggestions as to the cause?
> ...


Quick update - NO2 at 0.1 ppm and NO3 at 1 ppm (ok)


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## _Maq_ (31 Jul 2022)

Sara_Notfors said:


> had about 0.5 - 1.0 ppm ammonia


And your pH?
Did the temperature rise recently?


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## John q (31 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> And your pH?


Suspect its below 7.. 


Sara_Notfors said:


> I checked my water the yesterday after 2 tetras died suddenly


When fish die suddenly you have to suspect something is wrong, the best way to proactively deal with this is change some water, it won't do any harm.


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## Sara_Notfors (31 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> And your pH?
> Did the temperature rise recently?


Not by my hand, but it has been warmer in general recently…shouldn’t really affect things though I think?


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## Sara_Notfors (31 Jul 2022)

John q said:


> Suspect its below 7..
> 
> When fish die suddenly you have to suspect something is wrong, the best way to proactively deal with this is change some water, it won't do any harm.


Good advice


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## _Maq_ (31 Jul 2022)

Sara_Notfors said:


> Not by my hand, but it has been warmer in general recently…shouldn’t really affect things though I think?


Increased temperature surely had an impact on microbial community. Various microbes reacted differently. In general, their activity increases with temperature. Nitrifiers could have been affected negatively due to lack of oxygen - 1. oxygen solubility decreases with temperature, 2. heterotrophic microbes have higher oxygen demand and nitrifying microbes cannot compete with them. Additionally, ammonia oxidizing microbes respond to increased temperature differently from nitrite oxidizing ones. This may cause discrepancy in nitrification as a whole. Even small changes sometimes may have significant consequences.
However, if your pH is below 7, 1 mg/L ammonium+ammonia should be perfectly safe. Test kits always measure ammonia and ammonium together, and pH measurement is necessary to tell how much of this is made up by toxic ammonia.
Though I'm not convinced that your problems are caused by ammonia (by nitrites, perhaps?), I believe some changes in your tank's microbial life are the cause.
I suggest improved oxygenation, and increased water changes. (People often believe that lack of oxygen is impossible in well-planted tanks. I think differently. It's difficult to prove or demonstrate but my long-term experience suggests that good oxygenation tied with good water movement is remarkably beneficial. The more so during summer.)


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## tam (1 Aug 2022)

Test your source water too just to make sure it's not a false reading/problem there.


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## Sara_Notfors (1 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Increased temperature surely had an impact on microbial community. Various microbes reacted differently. In general, their activity increases with temperature. Nitrifiers could have been affected negatively due to lack of oxygen - 1. oxygen solubility decreases with temperature, 2. heterotrophic microbes have higher oxygen demand and nitrifying microbes cannot compete with them. Additionally, ammonia oxidizing microbes respond to increased temperature differently from nitrite oxidizing ones. This may cause discrepancy in nitrification as a whole. Even small changes sometimes may have significant consequences.
> However, if your pH is below 7, 1 mg/L ammonium+ammonia should be perfectly safe. Test kits always measure ammonia and ammonium together, and pH measurement is necessary to tell how much of this is made up by toxic ammonia.
> Though I'm not convinced that your problems are caused by ammonia (by nitrites, perhaps?), I believe some changes in your tank's microbial life are the cause.
> I suggest improved oxygenation, and increased water changes. (People often believe that lack of oxygen is impossible in well-planted tanks. I think differently. It's difficult to prove or demonstrate but my long-term experience suggests that good oxygenation tied with good water movement is remarkably beneficial. The more so during summer.)


Worryingly the pH is 4?! Tap water pH is around 7.5 - 8. NH4 still quite high at around 0.3 ppm. I did a 50% water change again today and cleaned the filter out. I'm not sure what else to do at this stage - reduce the temperature? its at 28.4 - 2.8.8c


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## _Maq_ (1 Aug 2022)

pH = 4??? If yes, that's truly worrisome. Some internal biochemical processes collapsed, obviously. What does *your substrate* consist from?
Water changes are the first aid. Do you have any powdered CaCO3 = calcite, limestone, chalk? That's the safest way to increase pH and buffer capacity of water. It's poorly soluble in water so you'll get a white 'mist' in the water. It's not dangerous, neither to fish nor to plants. However, I can't suggest dosing from distance. Try a teaspoon, wait 24 hrs & check pH. You'll see.
Keep on oxygenating, that's always a good thing if things get into trouble.


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## tam (1 Aug 2022)

What's your KH?  The nitrogen cycle uses up KH, if it runs out you can end up with a low ph and stops the cycle - usually it happens in old tanks without  a lot of water changes. Is your water soft?


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## Sara_Notfors (1 Aug 2022)

tam said:


> Test your source water too just to make sure it's not a false reading/problem there.


Good thinking - my tap water has NH4 of about 0.3 ppm.... 
I've got a friend dropping by some bacteria gel ball things


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## Sara_Notfors (1 Aug 2022)

tam said:


> What's your KH?  The nitrogen cycle uses up KH, if it runs out you can end up with a low ph and stops the cycle - usually it happens in old tanks without  a lot of water changes. Is your water soft?


KH is around 4 dH (I think? first time I've used it and the water colour has changed to a light orange-yellow). 
Aye, water is soft.  I've been doing water changes, but only about once a week. Life has been a little crazy.


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## tam (1 Aug 2022)

Sara_Notfors said:


> KH is around 4 dH (I think? first time I've used it and the water colour has changed to a light orange-yellow).
> Aye, water is soft.  I've been doing water changes, but only about once a week. Life has been a little crazy.


Once a week should be enough to keep things stable, it's usually a problem if it's months without. Your water report might tell you the base line for things like hardness.

Another thing that might be worth doing is popping a water sample into your local fish shop - a lot will test for you and it makes sure your kit is reading correctly and they've usually more experience reading the colour results.


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## Sara_Notfors (1 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> pH = 4??? If yes, that's truly worrisome. Some internal biochemical processes collapsed, obviously. What does *your substrate* consist from?
> Water changes are the first aid. Do you have any powdered CaCO3 = calcite, limestone, chalk? That's the safest way to increase pH and buffer capacity of water. It's poorly soluble in water so you'll get a white 'mist' in the water. It's not dangerous, neither to fish nor to plants. However, I can't suggest dosing from distance. Try a teaspoon, wait 24 hrs & check pH. You'll see.
> Keep on oxygenating, that's always a good thing if things get into trouble.


I can't remember exactly, some sort of red fine sand that from memory that provided nutrients to plants topped with coarse sand.  NO powered CaCO3


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## _Maq_ (1 Aug 2022)

If your pH is 4, then your KH can't be 4 °dKH. Such a combination is impossible.


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## Sara_Notfors (1 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> If your pH is 4, then your KH can't be 4 °dKH. Such a combination is impossible.


I don't know then, was struggling to determine what it was... think the fish shop might be the best option


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## jaypeecee (1 Aug 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> I suggest improved oxygenation, and increased water changes. (People often believe that lack of oxygen is impossible in well-planted tanks. I think differently. It's difficult to prove or demonstrate but my long-term experience suggests that good oxygenation tied with good water movement is remarkably beneficial. The more so during summer


Hi @_Maq_ 

I agree with the points you have made. In particular, oxygenation of the water column and biofilter is so important. And the presence of dissolved organics eats up oxygen. But, oxygen in the water requires specialist equipment in order carry out accurate oxygen measurements. Having said that, I have found some hobbyist O2 Test Kits to be better than nothing. Currently, I have a Salifert O2 test kit, which I find useful. I prefer the Salifert kit to the JBL test kit for O2 tests.

JPC


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## sparkyweasel (1 Aug 2022)

John q said:


> Pictures of the tank would be helpful.


And some information about it, and anything that's changed recently. 
Maintenance and water changes? Tapwater conditioner?
What test kits are you using?
Are the other fish looking and behaving normally?


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