# Welsh Mountains...A Distant Echo.



## Dave Spencer (10 Jan 2008)

It`s way too early to reveal this scape ( one day old), which represents the third reincarnation of this tank, but I would appreciate any advice out there. I ran the Riccia scape to destruction to see far how I could push the Riccia for future reference. I am sad to see it go, but I will do another Riccia based scape, I am sure.

Lifting the rocks in to this tank was a pretty nerve wracking job, to say the least. I am still playing around with smaller rocks at the front, and intend to have a sandy foreground.

Essentially, HM and HC are going to be growing in and around all the lower rocks, softening the current stark appearance of the mid and foreground rocks. Getting the pruning right will be a real test for me(wish I had some UKAPS pruning scissors  ). Getting the "flow" of the greenery around the rocks will be key, along with how much rock remains in view, I think. 

I am not happy with the lower left hand side. These rocks look a bit too just plonked in at the moment, leaning against eachother the way they do, but HM growing over and around this area will improve the look, hopefully.

Cascading all the way down the left hand side of the largest rock will be HC, some of it spilling out down the front of the rock. This is a problem area during water changes, as the lowered water surface washes the Eco complete away. Once the HC is firmly rooted, this problem will hopefully disappear.

Due to the current relatively low plant mass, I have floated a lot of Dwarf riccia from my 60cm, along with some HM cuttings.

The photo was a bit rushed, and the whole set up looks a bit stark and unruly, but once the plants are sorted and I have a white background on, it should brighten up a lot.

The O2 bubbles of my Riccia scape looked amazing of an evening, when it was backlit, so the target for me is to produce a better looking scape than that one. Fingers crossed!






Dave.


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## tgc (10 Jan 2008)

Looks nice, IMHO though the rock on the left looks a bit large.

However I'm only a newby, i've got a lot to learn probabley turn out fantastic.

Cheers Tim


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## Graeme Edwards (11 Jan 2008)

Nice to see your momento hasnt slowed Dave.
Its very difficult to picture what you are trying to achive, but i can see it. Like you say, get all your stems right etc, it will really bring the scape together.
I agree with what you say about your rocks, perhaps have the large rocks pointing in the same direction, as you would see in Wales its self, but go for a kind of random boulder composition near the bottom of the scape.Ie random directions and sizes. I think some smaller rocks are needed, the lower part of the scape are all similer in size. To achive the landscape look, your going to need to grade your rocks right down to the smallest possible.
I think the scape would benifit with some sections off moss, give it some scale and age.
Not sure about the rock to the right, i think it would look better pointing out to the right, creating a "V" composition.

Reagrds,
Graeme.


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## Tom (11 Jan 2008)

Great idea. 

If it were mine I would try and point the large rock to the middle slightly to see how it looks. The small foreground rocks look a bit "domino-esque" at the moment, but as you say it might look better when the HC grows in. I've had a thought about positioning if you don't mind. That is remove the front right rock, point the 2nd rock from the left in the other direction and remove the long thin upwards-pointing rock in the front centre. Just my thoughts, good luck with it   

Tom


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## Dave Spencer (11 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the excellent critique, guys.

I think we are all agreed that the foreground needs some work. Dominos about sums up the left foreground, Tom. Once the HC has grown in it will cover a lot of evils, but i would rather get it right before then. One must strive for perfection.  

The moss is an excellent idea Graeme. I was hoping that the HC around the large rock would create this kind of imagery, but moss may well convey this a bit better. I shall bear this in mind.

This scape is a bit of a rushed job, something that I wanted to try before I move this tank in to the girl friend`s house (seems odd saying that when you are 44) in a couple of months. I am sure I will be able to produce something presentable.

Don`t ever hesitate to give advice tgc, you are a member of UKAPS, don`t you know!

Dave.


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## zig (13 Jan 2008)

How big is this tank Dave?


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## Dave Spencer (13 Jan 2008)

Hi Zig,

The tank is a Juwel Lido. It`s 120l, but only 60cm wide with a height of 50cm. The front to back depth is pretty good, but its cube like shape makes aquascaping a bit of a vertical process.

Hopefully, once I have got this scape out of my system, I shall be setting the tank up for someone else in their house, and moving in an open top 120cm so I can have a proper attempt at an Iwagumi.

Dave.


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## Garuf (13 Jan 2008)

When I look at this tank I feel like there should be a line of substrate down the middle where the HM currently is, raising the entire middle section, mountains are craggy but they are smoother than in this scape.
I really like it though, any more pictures?


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## CJ Castle (13 Jan 2008)

Nice idea, Dave...


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## Dave Spencer (13 Jan 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> When I look at this tank I feel like there should be a line of substrate down the middle where the HM currently is, raising the entire middle section, mountains are craggy but they are smoother than in this scape.
> I really like it though, any more pictures?



I know what you mean, Garuf, but this is the main area for planting. If I did not plant here it would be hard to justify calling it a planted tank.  

The HM itself will raise this central area once it grows in. There is also a little Micranthemum umbrosum planted along the back just in case I wanted further elevation.It will be growing in one or two other places as well. 

The hope is to have what look like bands of forestation, with craggy outcrops poking above. Hopefully, the stark, craggy appearance wii soften with plant growth. The current look is nothing like what I have in mind, it`s just fingers crossed that this works. 

Thanks for the encouragement as always, Corin.

A lot of people on here seem to be stepping up a level with their aquascaping, and I don`t want to get left behind.

Dave.


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## George Farmer (13 Jan 2008)

Awesome rocks, Dave.  And free too?

I look forward to seeing this one develop.


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## Dave Spencer (29 Feb 2008)

It starting to look like a planted tank now, instead of just a pile of rocks. The HC has let me down a bit, and taken an age to start growing. I doubt I will get the effect from it that I wanted.

The Micranthemum umbrosum is growing mad, as always.

I guess it is time to start pruning in earnest to get some kind of flow to the HM.













Dave.


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## TDI-line (29 Feb 2008)

OMG Dave, have you been looking through my dining room window getting a secret glimpse of my tank!  That is very similiar with the rocks and HM.

Looks brilliant.


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## Moss Man (29 Feb 2008)

I love the way the plants grow around the rocks, it looks very natural.
Brilliant.


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## ceg4048 (29 Feb 2008)

Nice work Dave. Love the colors in the hardscape.

Cheers,


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## Arana (29 Feb 2008)

It's growing in beutifully...well done


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## Dave Spencer (29 Feb 2008)

Thanks for the positive reply people. You have warmed the cockles of me `eart. 

Clive, funnily enough I was thinking how the camera AWB picked up the purple hue of the Interpet Triplus on the largest rock. It`s never done that before. The last two pics are probably the closest I have ever got to the actual colours of any tank I have ever photographed.

I want to start shooting in RAW, but can`t find the appropriate software to use with a D40 and photoshop 7.

Dave.


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## ceg4048 (29 Feb 2008)

Hi Dave,
              Check The Luminous Landscape. There are some links for the Camera Raw plugin for v7: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... -raw.shtml

v8 and above come with the Raw plugin and a slick Raw interface so you may want to think about upgrading.

On the other hand, I've not yet found any real advantages to using Raw and in fact there are some major disadvantages. The jpgs straight from camera as as sharp as what I can produce from Raw at a fraction of the file size. As a direct result of the jpg file size advantage, disk storage requirements are lower, process times are faster and.. I don't have to trawl around looking for software to read proprietary (*.nef) file types.  

Cheers,


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## George Farmer (2 Mar 2008)

Superb, Dave, in every respect.  

The rocks are great, the layout well-executed, plant growth extremely healthy, photography excellent - what else can I say?!  

Well done that man!


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## Themuleous (2 Mar 2008)

Very nice Dave


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## Dave Spencer (4 Mar 2008)

Thanks everyone.

Cheers for the glowing endorsement, George. Are you just being nice because I gave you some CO2 stuff?  

Dave.


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## johnny70 (4 Mar 2008)

Looks stunning! beautiful tank, what are your stocking plans for fish?

JOHNNY


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## George Farmer (4 Mar 2008)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Are you just being nice because I gave you some CO2 stuff?
> 
> Dave.



Sussed.

It's crap really...


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## Dave Spencer (4 Mar 2008)

johnny70 said:
			
		

> Looks stunning! beautiful tank, what are your stocking plans for fish?
> 
> JOHNNY



D`Oh, I knew I forgot something. 

There are seven Cardinals in there, but they always hide out back by the diffuser. I will get more in due course, hopefully giving them more confidence in numbers. 

I don`t want to overdo it though, as I don`t want the hassle of moving fish when this tank is moved.

Dave.


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## TDI-line (4 Mar 2008)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> johnny70 said:
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I've got about 100 cardinals, they all hide by the diffuser too. 

Except for feeding time, then it looks like a scene from an early Bond movie.


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## Dave Spencer (5 Mar 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> I've got about 100 cardinals, they all hide by the diffuser too.
> 
> Except for feeding time, then it looks like a scene from an early Bond movie.



That`s a blow. I was hoping greater numbers would make them more confident, and I certainly won`t be able to fit in anything like 100.

Dave.


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## George Farmer (5 Mar 2008)

I had about 30 cardinals in my 125 litre a couple of years ago.  They swam about all over and schooled nicely if you waved your hand about near the glass.


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## Dave Spencer (5 Mar 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I had about 30 cardinals in my 125 litre a couple of years ago.  They swam about all over and schooled nicely if you waved your hand about near the glass.



Good stuff. I reckon I`ll build their numbers up over the next week or two when I am not stuck at work. I`ll dust off my old aircraft marshalling wands, too.  

They are lovely fish when they come out, and really enhance the look of the tank.

Dave.


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## Ed Seeley (5 Mar 2008)

My 40 swim all around the tank and look great.  Having some cichlids to chase them off every now and then helps too!


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## vauxhallmark (6 Mar 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I had about 30 cardinals in my 125 litre a couple of years ago.  They swam about all over and schooled nicely if you waved your hand about near the glass.



So, you people who regularly completely change your tanks, what do you do with the fish from the previous setups? Where are your cardinals now?

Do you take them back to the shops? Or give them to other hobbyists? 

I'm terrible, I feel so strongly that it's my duty to keep the fish in the best environment I can for the whole of their lives, so my setups don't get a new look every six months. And then, four years later, when I'm starting to lose a shoal (to old age), and I'm getting excited about getting a new species, half the time I feel so sorry for the fish that are left when their shoal is down to 3 or 4 that I end up getting them some mates - D'oh! Must be harder hearted! Of course, it's always a good excuse for a new tank!

It is a funny old hobby isn't it? I LOVE ottocinclus - they remind me of little rabbits, hopping around the tank, and peeping up at me with their beautiful gold eyes - lovely white tummies - stripes - and I look at them, and think, how can this beautiful living animal be worth Â£1? 

Anyway, sorry for the digression - but I would be interested to know how people who dismantle and re set up their tanks regularly deal with the old inhabitants.

(Actually, I did once take a fish back to the shop, and I felt very guilty. But then again, when I breed fish and have to get rid of the young ones I have no qualms about selling them to shops. Funny that. Sorry, I can't stop waffling!)

Mark


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## Fred Dulley (6 Mar 2008)

George gave his Cardinals to James (jimbooo).


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## Dave Spencer (7 Mar 2008)

Vauxhallmark,

The Cardinals are the original occupants of this tank when I first set it up 15 months ago. Basically, they have sat in a bucket during the many occasions I have rescaped, and have been none the worse for wear.

Personally, I don`t get attached to my fish, and don`t look upon them as pets. I find that looking after my plants, by default, creates a healthy environment for my fish. I`ve never had any diseases in any of my tanks.

Dogs I can get emotionally attached, but not fish I`m afraid.

Dave.


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## TDI-line (7 Mar 2008)

eds said:
			
		

> My 40 swim all around the tank and look great.  Having some cichlids to chase them off every now and then helps too!



Previously i did have a few discus in there, they never swam out of the shoal!


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## Ed Seeley (7 Mar 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

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Maybe a pair of dwarf cichlids would be better?  My Pelvicachromis certainly keep them shoaling well.


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## Dave Spencer (13 Mar 2008)

For any potential competition purposes, this scape is called......

A Distant Echo.

Go on Tourney, this one is way too easy for you.

P.S. I am in the process of building up the Cardinal numbers.

Dave.


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## George Farmer (15 Mar 2008)

*Re:*



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> ... but I would be interested to know how people who dismantle and re set up their tanks regularly deal with the old inhabitants.



Back to my quality LFS generally.  Doesn't bother me in the slightest.


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## TDI-line (15 Mar 2008)

*Re: Re:*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

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You have no heart George, tut tut. :?


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## Luketendo (15 Mar 2008)

*Re: Re:*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
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Yeah taking some of my fish away would bother me.

Although my Yoyo Loach is going to my friends Dad's 6' tank since he won't behave in my 30g so I had to move him to 10g.


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## zig (15 Mar 2008)

Any chance of a full picture here Dave or is that under wraps?


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## George Farmer (15 Mar 2008)

*Re: Re:*



			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

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Actually, I do.  I also eat meat.    

Any progress shots, Dave?


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## Fred Dulley (15 Mar 2008)

It's a shame all the decent, healthy LFS around me don't take in fish. They don't have the quarantine facilities even though I can assure them that the fish come from a clean source


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## Aeropars (17 Mar 2008)

I said this on APC but for me, thats possibly the best use of rocks that I have seen. Brilliant!


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## Dave Spencer (17 Mar 2008)

Lee, you really should visit this forum more often.  

I am going to bump the Cardinals up to 20 tomorrow. I am starting to see more of the current group, but I want a nice shoal for the final photos.

There may be a little more work done on the foreground rockwork. Graeme has suggested a few smaller stones which I have done, but there is still a straight edge to the rockwork that is bothering me a little.

Dave.


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