# Same old green dust algae issues...



## Aeropars (8 May 2012)

Hello experts. 

I'm at my wits end with this stuff. I have a 180l tank with 4 x 30 watt t8s over it and a eheim pro 3 which turns over 1700 LPH. Since I built the tank I seem to be slowly getting more and more gda on glass and plants. I'm dosing EI. 

I first thought it was due to low co2 so upped that and now I have a yellow tinged drop checker. It kept getting worse so I thought it might be flow so I got myself a koralia 2600 and now it's blowing the plants all over the place so I think I have the flow now covered. 

Slowly but surely it's getting worse and worse and I cannot shift it. Plant growth was ok. Blyxa and crypts doing well but I have one plant which apparently is a weed but is doing nothing in my tank. I can't remember the name. 

So based on that.... What can I do? Where could my problems sit?

Lee


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## GHNelson (8 May 2012)

Hi
Ive never had this algae...but the treatment Ive read is....to let it run its course for 3 weeks then do a clean up followed by the biggest water change you can get away with.
You may have to do this on a number of occasions.
If you have also Green spot algae its recommended that you increase phosphate and reduce lighting
hoggie


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## Skatersav (8 May 2012)

You could try the following (although please note that I am not really an expert)

 - Try a different CO2 diffuser - I find the Up Inline particularly effective but it's down to personal experiences - I realise that your drop checker is showing yellow, but maybe the dispersion is bad, or maybe little bubbles are blowing up into the drop checker making it turn yellow,when the water is actually low in Co2 content.
 - Try adding liquid carbon - care needed to avoid hurting the fish etc, but this seems to reduce algae.
 - Reduce light levels or duration.
 - Ensure CO2 comes on well before lights on.
 - BUy a load of algae eaters - ottos or amano shrimps.

Maybe you've tried all of these already.  If so, be sure to read Mike Appleby's journal on the transparent fish tank (something like that) as he has a load of information on there that I think is really useful.

Good luck.

D


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## spyder (8 May 2012)

Is it GDA or GSA? Dust or Spot?


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## Aeropars (8 May 2012)

It's certainly dust but if spot is present I can't see it. 

I'm already using a new up atomiser and dispersion is all over the tank. Lighting is running at 7 hours currently. I have some clean up crew in there but nothing getting rid of it at present. 

My problem is not really so much getting rid but preventing it.


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## spyder (8 May 2012)

Cool, just wanted to be sure. 

I've found once things settle in GDA comes on very slowly. When I do a big trim and remove a lot of plant mass it comes on a lot faster. I personally think it comes on stronger when the balance of the tank is upset. When I feel the tank is in the sweet spot I still get it in small amounts but only need to clean the glass maybe once a month instead of weekly.

I would be interested in this "weed" plant that is doing nothing. Your lights are working so that leaves co2+nutrients. Do you have a photo of this weed?


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## Aeropars (8 May 2012)

The plants called Ranunculus inundatus. The heads on most fell off however the stems are still fine and I have some leafs but it's doing nothing.


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## spyder (8 May 2012)

Aeropars said:
			
		

> The plants called Ranunculus inundatus. The heads on most fell off however the stems are still fine and I have some leafs but it's doing nothing.



Sounds like co2, frustrating huh?

I have most species flourishing in my tank although the odd plant here and there shows low co2 symptoms.


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## Ady34 (8 May 2012)

Hi,
1) is your dc lime green/yellow for lights on, or just towards the end of the photoperiod? 2)Have your fish shown distress at the c02 level? You need to aim for the first point and sometimes you need to use the second point as reference and then back off a little. However if your confident that your c02 is maxed and distribution is good and ferts are in excess, then your only option is to reduce lighting which will lessen the plants demands for c02 etc and effectively allow them a better chance of growing healthily. The issues certainly sound c02 related... algae and slow growth/stunting/loss of leaves all point to c02 so id remove 1 of your tubes for a few weeks and see if this improves things   .
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Aeropars (10 May 2012)

Hi Ady,

Yes, its at least lime green for lights on. CO2 comes on 3 hours before lights on so should be saturated. To be sure, i upped the co2 yesterday morning and by the time i got home i had some fish gasping at the surface so i know i'm pretty close.

I'm only running 3 t8s at the moment as one is broken. I'm so confused about this.


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## Ady34 (10 May 2012)

How long has it been running on 3 lights for? If a while, id try knocking it down to 2 lights and see what effect that has.
Ady.


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## Aeropars (11 May 2012)

Must admit, I'm not fully sure but i would expect it to be about 2 months or so. Thats not a lot of light, do you think that it would affect my other plants which are doing well?


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## Ady34 (11 May 2012)

Keeping the c02 the same, reduced lighting should just slow the pace down of anything that is thriving, and allow anything that needs more access to it a chance.
How high is your lighting above the water surface?


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## sWozzAres (11 May 2012)

Aeropars said:
			
		

> Hello experts.
> 
> I'm at my wits end with this stuff...
> 
> ...



I'm not 100% certain, but GDA is Chlamydomonas. This is used a model algae so alot is known about it. In terms of reproduction, deficiency of ammonium nitrogen is known to inhibit sexual reproduction leaving the algae in a vegetative state.

This would suggest that your filter/plants can't keep up with the amount of ammonium being created. I am assuming your plants are healthy, in which case I would either reduce feeding or improve the efficiency of your filter.

This is sort of backed up by spyder's comment, who did a trim thereby reducing the ability of his tank to process ammonium.



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> ...I've found once things settle in GDA comes on very slowly. When I do a big trim and remove a lot of plant mass it comes on a lot faster. I personally think it comes on stronger when the balance of the tank is upset. When I feel the tank is in the sweet spot I still get it in small amounts but only need to clean the glass maybe once a month instead of weekly.



However, in a vegetative state, this algae can still reproduce (essentially by dividing). Under ideal conditions, a single cell can produce 200,000 daughter cells in one week!!


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## Aeropars (11 May 2012)

I can't see how that could be though as my filter is massive compared to the tank size. Unless if course I have masses of ammonia being produced?


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## sWozzAres (12 May 2012)

What ferts are you using? Do you have a high fish load?


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## sWozzAres (13 May 2012)

GDA is going through it's cell cycle. Each adult cell will divide internally up to 3 times a day, producing 2, 4, or 8 zoospores. They break out and grow into adult cells. This is the algae's method of asexual reproduction and it repeats continously *under favourable conditions*. 

Eventually the number of cells will increase and the glass will go green. At night, the cells produce a substance that is responsible for them sticking to the glass. Flow in the tank will push more cells onto/passed certain spots and they will build up.

How long it takes before you see this buildup depends on level of ammonium, intensity of light, presence of calcium, temperature (apparently 33 celsius will halt the cell cycle completely!), possibly flow and probably other stuff! You can slow this process down by reducing light intensity and reducing ammonium but you can also halt it.

To do this you can provoke the adult cell it into it's sexual cycle. There it will eventually end up as spores, no longer dividing asexually and effectively frozen in time. To achieve this, you have to subject it to unfavourable conditions which is known to include removal of ammonium (but might include other sources of N also).

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/7/909.abstract
(and others)

Now, the adult cell no longer divides into zoospores, but instead divides into gametes. These burst out, swim around and pair with each other, grow into a zygote and turn into a zygospore. You can tell when this has happened because the GDA will go a reddish colour due to oils and starch being stored in the spore.

This is a know method to get rid of GDA. Leave it for 3 weeks, let it go red, clean it out then it won't come back. Problem is, even though it's worked for some, people are always saying it doesn't work.






http://aquariumalgae.blogspot.co.uk/2006/06/green-dust-algae-gda.html

This is probably because it only works when GDA is in it's sexual cycle, ie in the absence of ammonium. If you have ammonium in your tank, you will be stuck in the perpetual cell cycle of asexual division.

Ammonium is an important factor with GDA. It promotes growth and it's absence initiates "hibernation". Of course there are many other factors in play but I wouldn't be surprised to see a correlation between ammonium and GDA. Unsurprisingly, this experiment found a significant correlation with fish load and ammonium.

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=20072

I suppose non CO2 tanks with higher pH should have lower levels of ammonium (but more ammonia) so should suffer less from GDA :?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foh7osrNNZU

http://academic.kellogg.cc.mi.us/herbrandsonc/bio111/animations/0117.swf

http://sjbscience.weebly.com/uploads/2/7/5/3/2753626/chlamydomonas_v2.swf


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## Aeropars (15 May 2012)

Well i cleared the glass last night after what was 3 weeks and it had seemed to have slowed compared to the last water change. I guess we'll see what happens over the next few weeks. It is still on my hardscape so I think i'm going to take the hardscape out over the next 2 weeks and scrub it.

My problem now is why one of my plants almost seems to be in hibernation! Its really not done anything since its been put in even with increased CO2 and flow.

Could this be an indicator of something else?


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## sWozzAres (15 May 2012)

As a matter of interest, did it go reddish after 3 weeks?


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## Ady34 (15 May 2012)

Aeropars said:
			
		

> My problem now is why one of my plants almost seems to be in hibernation! Its really not done anything since its been put in even with increased CO2 and flow.


not a gem of knowledge i know, but... i reckon plants in some cases just dont like 'something' and therefore dont thrive whilst others do around them. Most plants are adaptable but there are some eg toninas which only really thrive in very soft water, so without any real knowledge and with reading reference to others saying 'trying a variety and seeing what works for you' , i believe some will just not like something/not be recieving something specific in their tank be it water/ferts/light/c02 or substrate and just wont grow. If we had endless amounts of time and money and knowledge we could add extra this and that and monitor, but for most hobbyists its not feasable in what were actually trying to achieve.... a nice looking tank with happy healthy plants. For others the challenge lies in finding out and reasoning everything which of course helps the rest of us when they kindly share their gained knowledge.
Im presuming the plant in question is the ranunculus? Sorry and maybe its no use at all and a little defeatist, but ditch it and try something else   ?
Having said all that though, if your still suffering with algae, something must be amiss so maybe when this issue is resolved, the plant in question may begin to thrive   .
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## sWozzAres (16 May 2012)

Maybe the easiest way to tie the things together is to suspect insufficient nutrients. Maybe they were fine at one point, but as plant mass increased, demand outstripped available nutrients. The plants stopped growing, so they stopped eating ammonium and maybe even started leaching the stuff too. Adding extra CO2 without extra nutrients might have made this worse!

Do you dose daily? Have you changed lighting recently?


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## Aeropars (16 May 2012)

Nothing has changed on the lighting front and I dose EI every day for 5 days alternating between Macros (x3) and Micros (x2). speaking of leeching I did see a slimy substance on the water surface when i changed the water which isnt normally there. 

This week so far I have double dosed to be doubly sure everything is getting the nutrients they need.


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## CeeJay (16 May 2012)

Hi all


			
				Aeropars said:
			
		

> speaking of leeching I did see a slimy substance on the water surface when i changed the water which isnt normally there.


This can be caused by unhealthy plants. 



			
				Aeropars said:
			
		

> This week so far I have double dosed to be doubly sure everything is getting the nutrients they need.


I'd run it like this for a few weeks and monitor the situation.


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