# From aquascape to succulent scape



## tiger15 (21 Oct 2022)

There can’t be more difference to move from aquascape to succulent scape.  One need lot of water and the other hardly any.  On the hand, there are as many if not more textural and color variance of succulents as aquatic plants.  So  I try it for the first time on my nano fish bowls.  The bowls are hung on my west facing window that receive several hours direct sunlight, and I use  LECA as media.  The challenge is the bowls have no drain hole so I have to measure the right amount of watering and monitor carefully to avoid drowning.  Another challenge is to select plants that stay small and not to overwhelm the nano size bowls.   I can’t have live stock in succulent scape, but then I don’t have to deal with algae as in aquascape. I hope it will  out for me.  Has anybody tried.


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## Hufsa (21 Oct 2022)

Happy to see the fish no longer living in those bowls 😊 Thank you for doing right by them


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## tiger15 (21 Oct 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Happy to see the fish no longer living in those bowls 😊 Thank you for doing right by them


No, they are not the same fish bowls.  I still have one paradise fish in one bowl, and a second paradise temporarily relocated   to my 75 gal .   It is the one in my 75 gal that is unhappy, hiding all day long inside the plants to avoid getting bullied by more aggressive cichlid tank mates.  I have to introduce a small bristlenose to clean up GDA in his home as I’m afraid the paradise may bully or kill the bristlenose.


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## Hufsa (21 Oct 2022)

tiger15 said:


> No, they are not the same fish bowls.  I still have one paradise fish in one bowl


🙁
With how many people gave you pushback when you posted that setup (the picture seems to have been deleted), dont you think you should consider that you may be the one in the wrong there?


tiger15 said:


> and a second paradise temporarily relocated   to my 75 gal .   It is the one in my 75 gal that is unhappy, hiding all day long inside the plants to avoid getting bullied by more aggressive cichlid tank mates.


It sounds to me like you have two setups then that are not good for the paradise fish in them, but for different reasons..


tiger15 said:


> I have to introduce a small bristlenose to clean up GDA in his home as I’m afraid the paradise may bully or kill the bristlenose.


Its your responsibility as a fishkeeper to provide an appropriate setup and tankmates for fish you are caring for. Sometimes if that becomes too difficult either because of space, time or budget restrictions then maybe it would be kinder to re-home the paradise fish.
Im not a fan of being so direct on a forum, but I think how you are caring for those fish is quite unfair to them.


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## xZaiox (21 Oct 2022)

Hufsa said:


> I think how you are caring for those fish is quite unfair to them.


I absolutely couldn't agree more. Even if a fish is able to 'survive' in a tiny environment, it doesn't mean it's going to be thriving in it, and personally, I feel our responsibilities as fish keepers is to provide an environment where the fish thrives. Anyone who has owned a larger tank will be able to tell you that the fish are so much happier with space. Mine are constantly exploring every spot and foraging amongst the plants. A fish in a tiny 1 gal bowl is not going to be able to do anything but eat when fed and wait until death. That's not really much of an existence is it?

I have a 25 litre quarantine tank that I keep any new arrivals in for 3-4 weeks before putting them in my main tank, and I often look at that 25 litre tank and feel uneasy about small it appears... they have a little bit of space, but not that much. A 1 gal bowl on the other hand? I could never. I also think it's shameful that certain companies that design these bowls advertise them as being suitable for fish.

When fish move from that 25 litre quarantine tank, to the 180 litre main tank, their behaviours quite drastically change.


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## tiger15 (21 Oct 2022)

I currently run one 125, three 75 , one 30,  one 20 gal tanks, and a handful of small fish bowls.   I have plenty of tank space to house big and small fish, and am always breeding and growing out some species.  Many betta keepers grow out betta in quart jars and having a gal bowl for a Chinese betta is comparatively roomy.  Having kept  fish of many species for decades, I can tell if a fish is happy or not by watching their behavior.  Since I have multiple tanks,  I moved fish around  often if I see them unhappy.  I have no doubt the paradise was happier in the gal bowl by himself than in the 75 gal with unfriendly tank mates.  .  Do not pass anthropogenic judgement on fish as  fish don’t think like human and have not evolved the emotional components of  bird and mammal.

  If no one has interest in this subject matter but to rehash old issues, Admin should close this thread out.


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## KirstyF (21 Oct 2022)

tiger15 said:


> Admin should close this thread out.



Perhaps that’s best.

Regardless of the size of the container that you confine these fish to (I think enough has been said) you are now saying that you’ve pulled one out and stuck it into another tank where you absolutely know it’s unhappy and being bullied, so that you can get another fish to clean its bowl up…..and you don’t see a problem with that either. 

Presumably the GDA ruins your viewing pleasure. The fish of course won’t mind it…….but it’s not about the fish right! 

So even by your own ‘standard’ I guess temporarily miserable is just fine.


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## Yugang (22 Oct 2022)

I agree, I would never keep a fish alone in such small bowl. Period. I've seen fish kept in a Korean hotel wall mounted aquarium, like a painting, so thin that the fish was literally not able to turn inside the tank. Disgusting.

But it's also a difficult discussion. I really care for my fish in my tank, yet at the same time I go weekly to the wet market, where live fish are kept in tanks, and have the poor thing killed and cleaned in front of me. I eat poultry and meat, we all know that these were not raised as beloved pets. I also notice that while UKAPS is a community of 'nature in a box' enthousiasts, posts on mass extinction, deforestation, climate hardly create passionate discussion. So while I find it hard to see a fish alone in a bowl, I realise that I am partially blind for even bigger injustice and I fail to correct myself.

So @tiger15 , we would all be happy if you find a happy home for your fish. Letting animals suffer (to any extent) for our personal hobby and entertainment is probably a sensible red line.


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## tiger15 (22 Oct 2022)

Yugang said:


> So @tiger15 , we would all be happy if you find a happy home for your fish. Letting animals suffer (to any extent) for our personal hobby and entertainment is probably a sensible red line.


In term of fish welfare, no where is worse than in HK.  I've been to the famous HK fish street where fish are packed in tanks  with  less water than fish.  The shops open at noon  but the shop keepers are already busy in the morning bagging up fish.  HK people don't waste time catching fish in tanks, but prefer to pick up prebagged fish right away.  The bagged fish are dumped back to the tank if they don't get sold of the day. The crowed treatment extends to home aquariums there too.  I was chatting with fish keepers in HK and was amazed to learn that it's common practice in HK  to pack 20  to 30  goldfish, discus, angel, Mbuna and even frontosa in a 30 gal tank given space in precious there. 

I am a fish (and  plant) addict so don't worry about my treatment of fish welfare.  I keep community cichlid tanks and managing aggression is the key to harmony and fish welfare.  I don't like the crowed approach as common for Mbuna keeping where balance of power is achieved by letting fish constantly chasing one another as musical chairs.  To achieve peaceful harmony, I mix the right fish species , observe their behavior and interaction, and ready to move fish around if they don't fit.

Paradise fish is simply a bad community fish.  They are aggressive and will bully and eat smaller fish.   But if they are victim of bully, they are too slow to escape injury.   He is doing fine now hiding in the dense vegetation.  As soon as the GDA is cleared up, I will return him to his gallon bowl where he belongs.  I will remove the bristlenose and introduce snails and hopefully he won't kill them.   Interestingly, my other paradise bowl has perfect balance with no GDA.


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## Yugang (23 Oct 2022)

tiger15 said:


> In term of fish welfare, no where is worse than in HK





tiger15 said:


> The crowed treatment extends to home aquariums there too.


Perhaps unintended by OP,  these may be read as a sweeping statements, and culturally offensive.

Healthy flowing water and fish are important in Chinese and several Asian cultures, bringing good luck, fortune, health and happiness. Many of the very best fish keepers come from Hong Kong, China and Asia. Living several decades in HK, I feel I cannot walk away from this thread without making this point.









						Paradise Fish 101: Care, Tank Size, & Tank Mate
					

Paradise fish are absolutely beautiful and are one of the most popular freshwater fish out there. Learn how to care for them in this guide.




					www.aquariumsource.com
				



The minimum paradise fish tank size should be around 20 gallons for one fish.

Fun observation: Feng Shui is really nice, until wife and feng shui master decided that my tank has to move to the opposite wall in our apartment.


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## mort (23 Oct 2022)

tiger15 said:


> Since I have multiple tanks,  I moved fish around  often if I see them unhappy.






tiger15 said:


> Do not pass anthropogenic judgement on fish as  fish don’t think like human and have not evolved the emotional components of  bird and mammal.



Happy/unhappy are emotional components though. Perhaps less/not stressed is a better way of looking at it. Fish have been shown, by measuring the stress hormone cortisol, to except small quarters but that is where our opinions vary. The argument of someone else is treating them worse simply isn't an excuse to not do our best for the animal.


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## tiger15 (22 Nov 2022)

Just  completed a miniature succulent garden  on another bowl adjacent to the nano aquascape bowl in which the  paradise fish is popping up color.


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## hypnogogia (22 Nov 2022)

tiger15 said:


> It is the one in my 75 gal that is unhappy, hiding all day long inside the plants to avoid getting bullied by more aggressive cichlid tank mates.


At least it has somewhere to hide…


tiger15 said:


> In term of fish welfare, no where is worse than in HK. I've been to the famous HK fish street where fish are packed in tanks with less water than fish. The shops open at noon but the shop keepers are already busy in the morning bagging up fish. HK people don't waste time catching fish in tanks, but prefer to pick up prebagged fish right away. The bagged fish are dumped back to the tank if they don't get sold off the day. The crowed treatment extends to home aquariums there too. I was chatting with fish keepers in HK and was amazed to learn that it's common practice in HK to pack 20 to 30 goldfish, discus, angel, Mbuna and even frontosa in a 30 gal tank given space in precious there.


Nice ‘what aboutery’.


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## hypnogogia (22 Nov 2022)

tiger15 said:


> He is doing fine now hiding in the dense vegetation.


I thought he was unhappy and being bullied by other fish?


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## tiger15 (27 Dec 2022)

Update pics of my succulent scape.  It displaces much color, form and textural diversity.  I’m also starting a succulent bonsai tree from Jade plant.


hypnogogia said:


> I thought he was unhappy and being bullied by other fish?


He is happy now back to his little quarter.  He was never bullied but shy away from bigger tank mates.


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