# ND Aquatics/Juwel 300



## MikeC1408 (18 Nov 2014)

Time has come to upgrade my tank and I'm looking at a 48 x 24 x 18 from ND Aquatics with Opti White front panel.

What is the silicone work like on these, searches have turned up mixed reviews but most post where a bit on the old side so wondering what the quality is like now a days.

Also any pics would be appreciated of this tank set up


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## Stu Worrall (19 Nov 2014)

ive also been thinking the same for a 120cm. Ive got one but it has quite a bit of silicon on it and Ive really been struggling to find a good priced braceless with minimal silicon.  

Id also be interested in seeing any of their recent work and how much silicon they use if customers could pop some pics up?


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## Alastair (19 Nov 2014)

Hi mate, I used them a number of times, the latest was the big tank I just took down, and even though that was a whopper of a tank and had black silicone   the workmanship was great, silicone was neat etc


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## Crossocheilus (19 Nov 2014)

They offer pretty affordable prices and pretty good workmanship:





Here you can that the silicon is not only in the join, but what you can see is done very neatly. You can also see the difference between base panel (normal glass) and side panel (optiwhite). I managed to get a silver grey cabinet that was flush with the sides of the tank, ada style. Although it is not a standard option for the cabinets, I asked for the scandinavian cabinet but flush with front, back and sides.


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## MikeC1408 (19 Nov 2014)

Thanks guys very helpful

Anyone else like to show a pic or link to journal for ideas on build and scapes


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## Andy D (19 Nov 2014)

My tanks are from ND Aquatics and I am very happy with them. Sure the silicone is not ADA / TMC standard but it is very neat. You can hopefully see it in my journal. (Better shots on page 2). 

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/index.php?threads/Andy-D's-Splendid-Tank.33280/


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## MikeC1408 (19 Nov 2014)

So I've changed the title add I've been pricing everything up today an it's getting to more than I wanted to spend. 

My local LFS has offered me a Juwel 300 package for under £600 which includes everything. Was thinking I could get this and add an external filter now with the view to upgrading the lights from 4x54W T5's to LED's later if needed. Internal filter could be removed or even left running with no media to aid flow rate. 

How do these tanks rate, are they goof for the money?


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## Stu Worrall (19 Nov 2014)

Thanks chaps.   

A little too much silicon for my liking to be honest but the work does look very neat so great for the price.  

Im having trouble finding anyone in the UK that can do ADA quality silicon but they dont do the size i want as I want to go deeper into the tank with a 120x50x45cm


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## Stu Worrall (19 Nov 2014)

MikeC1408 said:


> So I've changed the title add I've been pricing everything up today an it's getting to more than I wanted to spend.
> 
> My local LFS has offered me a Juwel 300 package for under £600 which includes everything. Was thinking I could get this and add an external filter now with the view to upgrading the lights from 4x54W T5's to LED's later if needed. Internal filter could be removed or even left running with no media to aid flow rate.
> 
> How do these tanks rate, are they goof for the money?


They are good solid tanks but I find them a little too tall for me as Im a short blahblahblahblah! (I used to have a rio 125)

Also youve just imagined upgrading half of it already before youve bought it so is the complete unit a false economy now?  Removing the internal filter will give you more room in there plus remove the big black thing in the corner but then you'll have removed your heater as well unless you can but some suckers to put it back in the tank.


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## Crossocheilus (20 Nov 2014)

How is minimal silicone different to normal silicone? Is it less strong a bond (less bonding area) and so needs thicker glass? Or is it just that plenty of silicone is standard and most companies don't want to change even though the minimal silicone requires minimum change? Why is it so uncommon?


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## MikeC1408 (20 Nov 2014)

I hear what your saying about already thinking about an up grade but the set up is half the price of where I got pricing up the ND one........ What to do..

I like the extra height of the juwel only thing putting me off is the lid being so plastic, am I right in thinking if I do up grade I'll just keep the wood around the top and have a unit above the glass lid our have to build a wooden lid?


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Crossocheilus said:


> How is minimal silicone different to normal silicone? Is it less strong a bond (less bonding area) and so needs thicker glass? Or is it just that plenty of silicone is standard and most companies don't want to change even though the minimal silicone requires minimum change? Why is it so uncommon?



I think it is simply that the standard way to silicone is much easier and less time consuming. Plus if it goes wrong it's fairly easy to put right. 

With the clean look of the ADA/TMC tanks the silicone has to be perfect as any silicone sticking out from the edges and into view will be really noticeable.


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Mike, what is your plan for the tank?


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## MikeC1408 (20 Nov 2014)

So the idea is basically to be an upgrade on my existing tank as I'm starting o get fed up with the limitations of the set up. If I can't get 100% what I want now then I'd like it to be easily upgradable at a later date.

Looking to scale up the below and have a nice planted community tank (if he other half gets her way it'll be a discus tank, but not 100% on that idea)


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

From experience I would advise that if you want to do it right then do it right from the start. Do not compromise as it will probabnle cost more in the long run.

I used to have 2 Juwel tanks and I think they are great tanks but I feel they have their limitations. This is not to say you cannot produce a stunning tank or scape with them as you only have to look at what Alastair and LondonDragon have done to see it can be done. For me personally I had a few bug bears.
1. The internal filter - Its a great filter but is an eyesore. It can be removed but this can be fiddly and you may end up scratching the glass or be left with unsightly silicone marks that seem impossible to remove.
2. Lighting - The T5s are very powerful and this means that you have to be on top of the game to prevent algae outbreaks. What is frustrating is that there is no way to control the intensity as the lights cannot be dimmed or raised. Therefore you are left with just control of the lighting duration.
3. Trim and Bracing - The tank looks nice but not as nice as a rimless/braceless tank. The trim can be removed but will leave a mess and IMO the tank does not look great open topped with that trim. The bracing also gets in the way of any maintenance tasks and fish catching.
4. Minor things - with a plain than you can simply spin it around if you end up scrathcing it enough to become unsightly. You cannot do this with the Juwel as the back trim is cut out for the cables etc to be fitted.

Ultimately its up to you but I went from Juwel tanks to rimless/braceless and I am much happier with them.


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## Stu Worrall (20 Nov 2014)

Agree with what Andy D said about the Juwel above.  The other thing is that the lid does provide some bracing to the tank which is how they get away with lower glass thicknesses.  If you remove the lid (and others have done it successfully) you will end up with a bulging front pane of glass. As mentioned it is a PITA to remove.  I tried it on my 125 and gave up!



Crossocheilus said:


> How is minimal silicone different to normal silicone? Is it less strong a bond (less bonding area) and so needs thicker glass? Or is it just that plenty of silicone is standard and most companies don't want to change even though the minimal silicone requires minimum change? Why is it so uncommon?


Yes its less strong but done properly its still strong enough and I'd be worried if I had to repair a big tank like that.  The minimal silicon is just more difficult to do hence why not all companies do it.

Its also an aesthetic thing for me.  Imagine the option of buying two TV's. One has a perfectly clear picture all the way to the edge and the other has about 7mm of opaque fuzziness around the edges.  I know which one I'd choose 

Im really struggling to find someone who does the minimal silicone in a custom tank at the moment.  My old 90cm tank was from aquariums ltd who went bust, TMC dont do a 120cm and the ADA is the wrong size


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## Mark Livermore (20 Nov 2014)

Mike, just convince my sister to let you get:
http://www.thegreenmachineonline.co...optiwhite-glass-aquarium-140x45x60cm-12mm-gla
And:
http://www.thegreenmachineonline.co...al-obelisk-aquarium-cabinet-140x60x75cm-3door

bargain...


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## MikeC1408 (20 Nov 2014)

She hasn't put a price limit on it


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## MikeC1408 (20 Nov 2014)

Only issue I have with open top tanks is jumping fish, think I'll probably wait and get the ND.


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Stu - What about Aquavas?


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## Ady34 (20 Nov 2014)

Andy D said:


> Stu - What about Aquavas?


only do full systems


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## Ady34 (20 Nov 2014)

Stu, im guessing TGM cant make you one?


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Ady34 said:


> only do full systems



Ah...


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Ady34 said:


> Stu, im guessing TGM cant make you one?



I was gonna suggest them too as I thought someone had one made by them but I was not sure.


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## Ady34 (20 Nov 2014)

Andy D said:


> Ah...


yeah its a bummer, plus there would be shipping from the states too. I dont think there is a uk distributor yet.


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## Andy D (20 Nov 2014)

Ady34 said:


> yeah its a bummer, plus there would be shipping from the states too. I dont think there is a uk distributor yet.



Ah x 2. 

I must keep myself more up-to-date.


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## pepedopolous (20 Nov 2014)

I think the Aquavas systems might still be shipped from their factory in Portugal. Having said that, they're now more expensive than anything except ADA and ELOS. It's a shame as there used to be a time when many people on this forum were getting NA (Natural Aquario) systems. I guess they only cater to the rich now!

On the 'Scapefu' podcast, the new owner (Jeff from ADG), promised that you would eventually be able to buy separate components from them. Not as yet 

P


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## Stu Worrall (20 Nov 2014)

Andy D said:


> Stu - What about Aquavas?


Id need to sell a kidney and a heart to afford one of their tanks now after the takeover!



Ady34 said:


> Stu, im guessing TGM cant make you one?


I did ask but its about £520 for a 120x50x45 from TGM.  I had a look at one of the tanks from their supplier but again its not really silicon free like a TMC or ADA.  The ND tank for the same size was £237 delivered.


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