# Help in getting algae in check



## Greeny (23 Jan 2022)

Hi everyone,

I recently posted in another thread about my own algae issues a couple of you may know and was encouraged to start my own thread to see if we can all work through it with much appreciation from me.

It was looking quite bad on Friday, took a couple of pictures and posted it. After that, I did a good maintenance session on both the tank, filter, and pipes. Today I also did more maintenance and tried further to get out as much detritus as possible. I explain a lot in the videos so I will leave it at those for now. Let me know if you can't open them. The first link is after the first maintenance and the second is after today's maintenance. I have no livestock currently...





The red plants are Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini' and not Ludwigia. In the first video, I said Ludwigia but realized for the 2nd video it was Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini' but said that it wasn't Rotala instead of Ludwigia lol (that bit was discussed in the other thread)

Anyway, much appreciated your help.


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## GHNelson (24 Jan 2022)

Hi
Manual removal with an old tooth brush and harassing the filamentous algae would be the order of the day!
Rub off any algae on leaves and remove any damaged leaves.......proceeded with a large water change after doing this.
There seems to be new fresh green Anubias leaves emerging so that's a good point.
Tropica Green Bottle states 6ml per week for 50 Litres. I would split this into 3 doses per week......2ml per dosing day for 50 Litres.
Monday/Wednesday/Friday.
Any stem plant can be used as a floater, but some are better than others as mentioned in this link below.








						Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!
					

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new,....it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum.  1. Improves water...



					www.ukaps.org
				



Send me your address and I will send you a few pieces of Water Sprite/Ceratopteris thalictroides as a floating plant....this is ideal for removing water column detritus!

More information would be helpful as the link suggests below!





						Please read the guidelines for Algae help!
					

Dear Member  Please give as much detail as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! Please upload photographs if possible. Copy and Paste the numbered questions and add your answers next to each!  1. Size of tank in litres. 2. Age of the set - up. 3. Filtration. 4...



					www.ukaps.org
				



hoggie


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## Greeny (25 Jan 2022)

That's very kind of you for offering to send me some floating plants. I'll send you my address in a pm. 
1, I'll keep harassing the filamentous algae
2, Some of the leaves have very stubborn algae, should I just remove them? Some leaves I can get most of it off but there can be stubborn parts that don't come off.
3, Ok, will start your suggested dosing regime.
4, Good link, nice to have that as a reference.
5, Again much thanks for the offer of sending the floating plants.
6, I will post more detailed information as soon as I get a chance.


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## GHNelson (25 Jan 2022)

Yes remove any leaves that have stubborn algae....they will not recover!
Probably Thursday I will send out.


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## Hufsa (25 Jan 2022)

Oh I must have missed this thread, sorry about that @Greeny 
Just gonna start with a disclaimer, I am not a user of injected CO2 (quite yet), so all my advice on that front is based on observations and the experience of the other users on the forum.

Some thoughts, I dont think you can do too many water changes, it should be a good thing because you are continually removing algae spores, loose detritus and other "stuff" that is suspended in the watercolumn. I see they commonly advise that water changes are done outside of the photoperiod, this allows your plants to do undisturbed growing with relatively stable levels of CO2, which a water change mid photoperiod would mess with. The fact that you dont have any livestock makes things a bit easier for now, you dont have to take them into consideration.

The new growth on your plants look healthy, that is good and it is this part of the plants you should be focusing on. The older growth cannot be changed much by the plant. Plants with CO2 injection seem to tolerate more trimming than low tech tanks, which is a bonus in your case. I would remove the worst of the old leaves, leaving some patches of bare stems behind if neccessary. Unless my memory is failing me, damaged plant tissue leaks ethylene, which signal for algae to attack the decaying tissue. We want the plant to spend less time trying to salvage half dead leaves and more time making new healthy leaves. But you should leave a bit of plant mass behind, even if it is not perfect. Check out this thread especially the posts by Geoffrey Rea

If you are doing large amounts of water changes, be sure to replenish the fertilizer you have removed, otherwise the water might be running very lean without it being your intention.


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## Greeny (6 Feb 2022)

Thanks once again for everyone's help, I am trying to get to a good balance, I'm still fighting to get it to that stage but I am taking the necessary steps. I thought I saw someone mention what root tabs they use but can't find it. Any recommendations of which root tabs to purchase?


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## Hufsa (6 Feb 2022)

Can you fill us in with the information requested earlier?
If your substrate is fairly new you shouldnt have to worry about root tabs.
Would love to see pictures of how it is going for you now?


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## Greeny (6 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Can you fill us in with the information requested earlier?
> If your substrate is fairly new you shouldnt have to worry about root tabs.
> Would love to see pictures of how it is going for you now?



Hi Hufsa,

It's all a bit of a mess in there at the moment, I've removed the Eleocharis mini as the hair algae just keeps growing so quickly within it and it's so complex. After removal, lots of detritus were left behind from it that I can actually get to now. I'm systematically going through the leaves to remove those with stubborn algae on. Unfortunately, the Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini' is so riddled with algae on its leaves I don't really know what to do, I need to remove it as much as possible to stop it from spreading but it's like decimating my plants. I've uprooted most of the plants so I can try and remove as much of this detritus as possible, each maintenance before this session felt like I'd done a good job with removing detritus but today has proved me wrong cause there's still so much of it in there. Tuesday I will try and remove as much as possible but it feels like such a huge task, 2nd to actually starting again. I'd love to be able to take a picture of some progress but it's a bit of a mess right now, on Tuesday, I'll take some pics of where I'm at for you to see. I'll also slowly fill in the details by editing the list below...

1. Size: ADA 45P
2. Age: Nearly 2 years.
3. Filtration: Oase Biomaster 250, stock media removed and replaced with Seachem Purigen
4. Lighting and duration: Twinstar LED V3 Aquarium Light 450EA Adjustable, dimmed to 35%, currently 6 hours.
5. Substrate: ADA Amazonia, a bit of sand that was a path once.
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing: CO2 dosing
7. Fertilizers used + Ratios: Tropica specialized nutrition 6ml per week, 2ml on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as directed by Hoggie.
8. Water change regime and type: usually a 70 to 80% change weekly, tap water mix.
9. Plant list + When planted. Anubias Nana Nana, Staurogyne Repens, Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini',  Cryptocoryne Albida Brown. Apart from the Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini' (been in for a few months, the rest planted at setup, 
10. Inhabitants: none
11. Full tank shot.


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## Hufsa (6 Feb 2022)

Hmm, sounds like its still very extensive despite your efforts. Big problem means there is likely a big solution needed in my experience, in other words a major factor is off still. I wouldn't personally worry about algae "spreading", others may disagree but.. The way I see it your water is already full of algae spores, having some leaves with algae on them is not going to make or break your progress. The goal must be to make the algae less happy to grow, because algae spores are everywhere anyway. Algae will not grow on healthy plant leaves. How is the new growth, is it being overtaken at the same rate it is coming? Have you looked at your CO2 implementation? How much CO2 is being delivered, is it getting to all corners and is the level of CO2 steady throughout the photoperiod? Yours is a high tech tank so it seems unreasonable you should have to go much lower on light then you currently are


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## Hufsa (6 Feb 2022)

Sorry if I have forgotten any details or mixed something up with someone elses thread 🙂


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## Hufsa (6 Feb 2022)

Your tank is 2 years old, this is useful to know. There is potential for a fair bit of crud to have built up in the substrate over that period of time. Have you seen this video?


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## Greeny (6 Feb 2022)

Thanks for your fast response, I will reply properly tomorrow as it's late now.  The algae are growing on leaves pretty quickly especially on the Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini', I hope I can remove most of the detritus cause I'm sure it will really help but I couldn't do it without uprooting the plants first, I'll see if it will make that job easier.


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## GHNelson (7 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> 2. Age: Nearly 2 years.
> 3. Filtration: Oase Biomaster 250, stock media removed and replaced with Seachem Purigen.


2. Age: Nearly 2 years.....This substrate could be spent of nutrients?
3. Filtration: Oase Biomaster 250, stock media removed and replaced with Seachem Purigen......more information needed on the filter cleaning regime!


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## Greeny (7 Feb 2022)

GHNelson said:


> 2. Age: Nearly 2 years.....This substrate could be spent of nutrients?
> 3. Filtration: Oase Biomaster 250, stock media removed and replaced with Seachem Purigen......more information needed on the filter cleaning regime!



2, Yes, I was thinking that it couldn't hurt to put tabs in, any recommendations? Some of my plants did feel brittle and broke easily, I don't know if this is common for healthy plants.
3,   There's not much of a filter cleaning regime so to speak, to be honest, it had been neglected. I haven't looked inside the canister for some time, although I did clean the pre-filter finally after too long and that was why the circulation was slack before that. Funny how the obvious things pass you by sometimes, like why isn't my 'insert any electrical gadget here' working?  Forgetting it actually needs electricity to work, "oh it's not plugged in, I just spent an hour messing around with complicated wiring and I didn't plug it in?!".  So yes, lots of detritus that I can't seem to get rid of, maybe check to make sure the filter is running efficiently? I suspect you are going to tell me to clean a lot more frequently  good idea. That being said, I remember about an internal filter, I'm not sure I have one or at least one small enough to fit in my 45p.

Below are pictures of what the tank looks like at the moment. I'm in the middle of a big clean-up, I already siphoned some of the detritus on the left side front as it was covered. I don't think the filamentous algae which I believe was struggling but still growing helped as it would grow and then seem to die and cause more of it, like waste recycling.


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## Yugang (7 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> Yes, I was thinking that it couldn't hurt to put tabs in, any recommendations


For a tank that is not well balanced yet, struggling with algae, I would focus on water column dosing first. Ammonia in roottabs may not be helpful when fighting algae, and once applied it is not easy to take them out again.

Yet, with @Hufsa and @GHNelson helping you you can't go wrong 😆 so follow their advice


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## Andy Pierce (8 Feb 2022)

I think some amano shrimp will sort your problem out right away.  They're brilliant on the softer algae; not so much on harder green spot algae or black beard algae, but these don't seem to be your problem (at least from looking at the photos).  Otto catfish are good too and are pretty benign, low maintenance and interesting.


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## dw1305 (8 Feb 2022)

Hi all,


Greeny said:


> There's not much of a filter cleaning regime so to speak, to be honest, it had been neglected. I haven't looked inside the canister for some time, although I did clean the pre-filter finally after too long and that was why the circulation was slack before that. Funny how the obvious things pass you by sometimes, like why isn't my 'insert any electrical gadget here' working? Forgetting it actually needs electricity to work, "oh it's not plugged in, I just spent an hour messing around with complicated wiring and I didn't plug it in?!". So yes, lots of detritus that I can't seem to get rid of, maybe check to make sure the filter is running efficiently? I suspect you are going to tell me to clean a lot more frequently





> I suspect you are going to tell me to clean a lot more frequently


We are.


Greeny said:


> and replaced with Seachem Purigen


Do you mean <"Purigen">, the little round white granules in a mesh bag?


Greeny said:


> Tropica specialized nutrition 6ml per week, 2ml on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as directed by Hoggie.


Plant growth definitely wasn't quite right, so it will be interesting to see what happens now.


GHNelson said:


> Send me your address and I will send you a few pieces of Water Sprite/Ceratopteris thalictroides as a floating plant....this is ideal for removing water column detritus!


I like <"_Ceratopteris spp._"> as well.

cheers Darrel


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## Greeny (9 Feb 2022)

Thanks everyone, I'm pretty busy and will try and answer as soon as I get a chance.


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## Greeny (10 Feb 2022)

Yugang said:


> For a tank that is not well balanced yet, struggling with algae, I would focus on water column dosing first. Ammonia in roottabs may not be helpful when fighting algae, and once applied it is not easy to take them out again.
> 
> Yet, with @Hufsa and @GHNelson helping you you can't go wrong 😆 so follow their advice



Thanks Yugang, I'll take that into consideration and vouching for Hufsa and GhNelson is  a nice confidence boost 👌

Perhaps a limited number of well placed tabs may do well.


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## Greeny (10 Feb 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> We are.
> ...



Ok,

1,  I will be extra vigilant on my filter maintenance. I'm looking to buy the lily pipes again so I can get back an intact inflow and surface skimmer. I'm not sure that the current position of the inflow is helping. Detritus accumulates on the front left hand side and I think that would be the better position for the inflow (see picture) i recently got word of an unexpected bonus, I could afford it anyway but that will buy it for me.

2, My mistake, I'd forgotten what I had put in there, I meant to say Seachem Matrix.

3, Most of them are uprooted at the moment while I spend some days cleaning as much of the detritus as possible and carry out frequent water changes as George Farmer endorses as a good way to keep plants happy and algae not happy.

4, Nice 👍

Thanks for your help, appreciate it.


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## Greeny (10 Feb 2022)

Andy Pierce said:


> I think some amano shrimp will sort your problem out right away.  They're brilliant on the softer algae; not so much on harder green spot algae or black beard algae, but these don't seem to be your problem (at least from looking at the photos).  Otto catfish are good too and are pretty benign, low maintenance and interesting.



Thanks Andy, my only worry about Amano shrimp is that I got 6 of them a few months ago or a year ago something like that, they were fine for a week until I did a water change (pretty big one) and my weekly maintainance, went to work the next day to find a couple easy to  spot that were dead and with a bit of digging around found the rest bar one dead. I kind of feel worried if I get some more, im only issuing a death sentence 😟 i guess i really stressed them and perhaps they were not fully acclimatised. With the otto's us a 45 litre big enough?


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## arcturus (10 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> Ok,
> 
> 1,  I will be extra vigilant on my filter maintenance. I'm looking to buy the lily pipes again so I can get back an intact inflow and surface skimmer. I'm not sure that the current position of the inflow is helping. Detritus accumulates on the front left hand side and I think that would be the better position for the inflow (see picture) i recently got word of an unexpected bonus, I could afford it anyway but that will buy it for me.


This is a small tank and you should be able to have sufficient water circulation with the lily pipe. I would try placing the intake closer to the substrate. But that will not replace weekly maintenance to remove the detritus that will always accumulate.


Greeny said:


> 3, Most of them are uprooted at the moment while I spend some days cleaning as much of the detritus as possible and carry out frequent water changes as George Farmer endorses as a good way to keep plants happy and algae not happy.


You need a minimum of 50% weekly water changes. This will not be problematic in a small tank. You can increase the frequency to 2-4x per week while you are experiencing these issues. After the tank recovers you can stay with 1x per week. And you cannot skip the weekly maintenance. No way around that while you keep injecting CO2.


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## Greeny (12 Feb 2022)

arcturus said:


> This is a small tank and you should be able to have sufficient water circulation with the lily pipe. I would try placing the intake closer to the substrate. But that will not replace weekly maintenance to remove the detritus that will always accumulate.
> 
> You need a minimum of 50% weekly water changes. This will not be problematic in a small tank. You can increase the frequency to 2-4x per week while you are experiencing these issues. After the tank recovers you can stay with 1x per week. And you cannot skip the weekly maintenance. No way around that while you keep injecting CO2.



Thanks a lot. I've ordered a new inlet with surface skimmer as it will look better anyway. Today I'm doing some more cleaning and removal of detritus, moving my hardscape back to a better position as they have moved over time and exposing more hidden detritus which I can now remove easily. Of Course I'll continue to maintain weekly, but I feel it's slowly getting cleaner and I hope this effort will help in the future.


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## GHNelson (12 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> I meant to say Seachem Matrix


This filter media is a Nitrate remover along with ammonia and nitrite!


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## Hufsa (12 Feb 2022)

GHNelson said:


> This filter media is a Nitrate remover along with ammonia and nitrite!


Well uhhh that is disputed. 
Its just really expensive pumice. Ive yet to see any proof that matrix actually does what it claims


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## MichaelJ (12 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Well uhhh that is disputed.
> Its just really expensive pumice. Ive yet to see any proof that matrix actually does what it claims


Right.  I use Matrix in all my HOB's (two on each tank). Matrix is  providing a large surface area due to its high porosity ideal for bacteria (nitrifying) to grow.  Its relatively expensive, but given that it last indefinitely (you can wash it as many times as you want) it's only a one-time expense -  and of course you only have to consider the price difference between whatever alternative bio media you would choose instead. All that being said,  what the plants (provided there's enough plants) and substrate provide in terms of "filtration" is immensely more important than the choice of bio  media.

 Cheers,
Michael


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## Greeny (12 Feb 2022)

GHNelson said:


> This filter media is a Nitrate remover along with ammonia and nitrite!



Should I check my nitrate levels as they may be too low?


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## Greeny (12 Feb 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Right.  I use Matrix in all my HOB's (two on each tank). Matrix is  providing a large surface area due to its high porosity ideal for bacteria (nitrifying) to grow.  Its expensive, but given that it last indefinitely (you can wash it as many times as you want) it's only a one-time expense -  and of course you only have to consider the price difference between whatever alternative bio media you would choose instead. All that being said,  what the plants (provided there's enough plants) and substrate provide in terms of "filtration" is immensely more important than the choice of bio  media.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael



I only really got it to replace the stock media that apparently isn't that great for something like you say,  that is of high porosity.

Thanks

Steve


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## Hufsa (12 Feb 2022)

@Greeny check out Is expensive bio media worth it?


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## GHNelson (12 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> Should I check my nitrate levels as they may be too low?


Yes, nitrate test kits are not that accurate....but you want some Nitrate in the aquarium!


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## GHNelson (12 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Well uhhh that is disputed.
> Its just really expensive pumice. Ive yet to see any proof that matrix actually does what it claims


I have used it previously years ago and it does seem to reduce Nitrate.
Probably crushed lava rock might do the same thing.


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## Greeny (14 Feb 2022)

Interesting stuff everyone.

Ok, an update from me, yesterday, I spent a few hours cleaning and making changes. I have replaced the inlet pipe with the surface skimmer and glass inflow that sits nice and close to the substrate to at least help with the ongoing filtration and a better chance at picking up detritus from the area of most accumulation and now sits at the front of the tank moving the outflow to the back. I've cleaned the pre-filter which was needing another clean for sure and inside the canister. Most weren't too bad but the most accumulation was actually on the bottom foam.

Knowing how much detritus I was removing each session I decided to take everything out including uprooting all my plants so I could see all the detritus on the soil and that I could agitate the soil to release more of it initially into the water column then to settle on the top of the substrate vacuuming it out with the hose. I did this at least 3 times. At the same time, I decided to reduce the soil level and have less of an incline mainly to increase the water column amount and to give stem plants at the back more room to grow. A little way in after the aquascape was going I sort of regretted making the soil so deep so I took that opportunity to try something new. I bought a small wire brush to remove as much of the algae from the rocks as possible. At the moment, the water is looking super clean and clear,  There's a possibility that I got used to seeing the water less than clean but in my eyes actually looked clean but really it could have been better, like something I got used to and forgetting what really clean water looks like. After maintenance, it did look clean but perhaps not as clean as it could be but not knowing how clean it can really look, it didn't occur to me (I hope you get what I mean lol).

Anyhow, I'm happy with my progress, the next steps that I can think of are...

1, Perhaps taking up those old roots.
2, Re-arranging the hardscape to a better position.
3, Re-planting
4, Good filter maintenance, pre-filter once a week, canister once a month (looking at the tank now, I don't think it's going to need a more intense regime than that, it's looking a lot cleaner)
4a, To decide on the current maintenance regime and water change schedule.
5, Checking the nitrate levels, (any other levels to check?)
6, Keeping an eye on the plants to see what effect my efforts will have on them.
7, Think about a sparing amount of root tabs.

Again thanks to everyone for your support, I really was close to letting all this beat me and you saved me, I may get an interview for a trainee train driver in the future, and one of the questions that may get asked is, tell us a time you solved a difficult problem and this could be a great answer as problems ain't that difficult to overcome at my current work. Anyway, I digress. Hopefully tomorrow I can get more done.


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## jaypeecee (14 Feb 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Yes, nitrate test kits are not that accurate...


Hi @GHNelson 

Have you ever used the JBL Nitrate Test Kit? That's what I've been using for many years and I am satisfied that it is reliable. If I needed to pay more, I would gladly do so but it's not necessary. I've previously used kits from Hach and LaMotte.

JPC


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## Hufsa (14 Feb 2022)

Well done, keep us updated @Greeny


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## plantnoobdude (14 Feb 2022)

on top of filter maintenance, substrate maintenance can also help. 

doing something like that every week will really help, the soil looks really loaded with detritus, which might contribute to the algae problems.


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## Greeny (15 Feb 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> on top of filter maintenance, substrate maintenance can also help.


Yes, that will be part of my maintenance routine for sure, thanks for the video, I have seen one like this before. I bought a thinner hose to slow down the water flow during water changes not long ago because of my relatively small aquarium so I could have longer to vac the soil, however, instead of going for a 5cm hose, I bought a 5mm hose  What size hose do you think would be good for smaller aquariums? Less than 5cm in diameter?


plantnoobdude said:


> doing something like that every week will really help, the soil looks really loaded with detritus, which might contribute to the algae problems.


Are you seeing the detritus from the latest picture? What has confused me is the difference between detritus and soil that has just broken up over time, would it be safe to assume that detritus would always be lighter brown in color compared to the usual color of ADA Amazonia? Just to mention, I did have a sandy path running through the middle but disappeared slowly due to soil collapse even though I used corrugated substrate supports.


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## plantnoobdude (15 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> Yes, that will be part of my maintenance routine for sure, thanks for the video, I have seen one like this before. I bought a thinner hose to slow down the water flow during water changes not long ago because of my relatively small aquarium so I could have longer to vac the soil, however, instead of going for a 5cm hose, I bought a 5mm hose  What size hose do you think would be good for smaller aquariums? Less than 5cm in diameter?


you don't need a gravel vacuum. a turkey baster and regular hose works well. anything will work aslong as it's not too small. the smaller diameter makes it really easy to suck up fish, soil and plants. 


Greeny said:


> Are you seeing the detritus from the latest picture?


yes, but what soil are you using, powder type?


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## Greeny (15 Feb 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> you don't need a gravel vacuum. a turkey baster and regular hose works well. anything will work aslong as it's not too small. the smaller diameter makes it really easy to suck up fish, soil and plants.


That was what I was going to do anyway, there is a fine line between the hose sucking out water too quickly and the diameter being too small creating problems as you stated.  I did make a mistake in my measurements, I meant I was using a 1.2cm hose and bought a hose that was 0.5cm but was too small.


plantnoobdude said:


> yes, but what soil are you using, powder type?


it is the powdered type.


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## plantnoobdude (15 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> it is the powdered type.


yeah, my powder tropica that was almost two years old looks no where like that, i'd think that's mostly detritus.


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## Greeny (15 Feb 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> yeah, my powder tropica that was almost two years old looks no where like that, i'd think that's mostly detritus.


Perfect, thanks, I'll keep up the detritus removal for now before planting, hopefully, I can reset everything as closely back to clean as possible.


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## Greeny (20 Feb 2022)

Is using RO water essential round here with our hard Norfolk water? I was watching Green Aqua and one of the things they say to do is to use soft water, at least some of it. RO water and re-mineralize.


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## dw1305 (20 Feb 2022)

Hi all,


Greeny said:


> Is using RO water essential round here with our hard Norfolk water


A lot of people use hard water, we have <"East Anglian members"> in @Siege, @MirandaB, @Geoffrey Rea, @mort , @castle  etc.   A lot of plant nutrients are more available in softer water, but hard water definitely isn't a deal breaker. I'll add in @Tim Harrison as well.

I have a very hard tap supply, but use <"rain water in the tanks">, which has many of the advantages of RO, but without the cost and environmental foot-print.

cheers Darrel


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## Siege (20 Feb 2022)

I agree with Darrell, RO water is definitely not essential.  Nice to play with later on to get ‘better‘ colours and grow a few really hard plants (there are just a few that demand it).

often see people that think they ‘must’ use RO water have more problems than others  because they limit the water changes to availability of RO water. It is quite wasteful and slow to make.

Check out AG shop tour to see tanks with very hard East Anglian water


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## Siege (20 Feb 2022)

I would say you need to change the soil, it is very old now. And add loads of plants. The soil should be covered in tiny plantlets.

concentrate on getting co2 right.

regular maintenance, filter cleaning etc. 

start your light at 60% and turn it up over a month or so. 6-8 hours duration.

on such a small tank it’s common to do an 80% water change - 2 on the trot often. Use the turkey baster method.

Temp 23 degree.

Hope that helps.


S.


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## erwin123 (20 Feb 2022)

while its nicer to have new soil, I don't think its a major cause of problems in the tank...just make sure you vacuum regularly. if nutrients in the soil are exhausted, there's always root tabs.

the soil in my tank is more than 10 years old and some of it has turned to dust, but my tank is still surviving (it has algae but I wouldn't want to pin the blame on 'old soil')... 😅


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## Siege (20 Feb 2022)

I’m not saying depleted soil is the cause of algae. Of course it isn’t.  But the healthier the soil, the healthier the plants. It will help them will flourish rather than just survive 😃

The cost of soil for a 45-P isn’t great so why not just do it and tick another box and improve the scape?


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## Greeny (20 Feb 2022)

Thanks again everyone for your input, I appreciate it.  I have been planting things back now.  The soil isn't cleaned perfectly but for stopping short of taking it out and rinsing it, I think it's nearly the best it can be. There may still be the odd old route and some dust still left but It definitely looks much cleaner and I'm sure it's going to help. Fingers crossed. I have a turkey baster now and a tube that is 8mm ID and the water drains slower to give me a bit more time to go over the substrate. I'll update you with a video as soon as I'm ready. I'll be needing to buy some new plants to fill out the front and may ask for some suggestions. The hardscape positioning or the hardscape, in general, could be better but my main goal is to keep the algae under control as it doesn't matter how strong your hardscape is if you can't keep algae under control.

Interesting about the rainwater Darrel,  whichever, I'll continue to do frequent tap water changes, perhaps 25% 3 times a week so to keep turning over the water and at least 50% with my weekly maintenance.


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## Greeny (20 Feb 2022)

Siege said:


> I would say you need to change the soil, it is very old now. And add loads of plants. The soil should be covered in tiny plantlets.
> 
> concentrate on getting co2 right.
> 
> ...


I've been to AG a couple of times now and I love it. I got my cabinet from there as a cheaper alternative to an ADA cabinet. Of course, there is always hope when it comes to keeping algae in check and using tap water. I'm currently on 35% lighting with my twinstar 450 which I think I will increase to 50% now my tank is much cleaner. I don't want my plants to suffer from too little light but I think 100% at any time is too much for the size of the tank IMO. It's super bright sitting on the sofa looking at the tank too. I'm on 24C and will reduce it to 22 - 23. I'm definitely going to keep the filter nice and clean and the soil still looks pretty good I reckon, I hope there are enough nutrients to help the plants. All that filamentous algae and the days when it got very bad left lots of detritus more than I realised. Fingers crossed all the effort will pay off.  Thanks for your input in this.


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## Greeny (20 Feb 2022)

Greeny said:


> Interesting stuff everyone.
> 
> Ok, an update from me, yesterday, I spent a few hours cleaning and making changes. I have replaced the inlet pipe with the surface skimmer and glass inflow that sits nice and close to the substrate to at least help with the ongoing filtration and a better chance at picking up detritus from the area of most accumulation and now sits at the front of the tank moving the outflow to the back. I've cleaned the pre-filter which was needing another clean for sure and inside the canister. Most weren't too bad but the most accumulation was actually on the bottom foam.
> 
> ...



Going by this attached picture, where do you think the best place to put the dropchecker is so that I know it's likely getting to all the right places?


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## Greeny (20 Feb 2022)

erwin123 said:


> while its nicer to have new soil, I don't think its a major cause of problems in the tank...just make sure you vacuum regularly. if nutrients in the soil are exhausted, there's always root tabs.
> 
> the soil in my tank is more than 10 years old and some of it has turned to dust, but my tank is still surviving (it has algae but I wouldn't want to pin the blame on 'old soil')... 😅


Oh nice, that gives me confidence in my soil and that it should still be ok.


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## Greeny (22 Feb 2022)

Hi guys, just a quick one, does the colour of my drop checker indicator look ok, or should it be a little bit lighter? The pic shows pretty much as it looks in real life.


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## GHNelson (22 Feb 2022)

The first image shows a good target color for the checker, lime green. The second image shows an example of what it looks like when there is too much CO2:









hoggie


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## Greeny (12 Mar 2022)

Hi guys,

I've got an update of how things are going, below are images that I took after adding the new plants once I got it set up again.







These are the pictures now after a couple of weeks and the hair algae is growing like crazy again...







Everything seems ok, I've been keeping up with water changes of 25% during the week, my co2 is on a timer and I don't believe it fluctuates causing the algae problem. I haven't added any livestock yet as I wasn't sure if the biological filtration was compromised during the clean up but do I need to add livestock to deal with this algae? Cause I'm not seeing any other way currently.


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## Greeny (17 Mar 2022)

This is as much jotting down test results as adding extra information. Test results are below...

Phosphate in the tanks water column is = between 2 to 5 ppm
Silicates in the tank water column 4 days after a water change is = 0
Silicates in my tap water = 3ppm
Higher reading with phosphate test kit shows no result.
Nitrates are currently at 40 ppm

I've so far added 2 Amano shrimp on Sunday who are doing fine and 2 horned nerite snails as of yesterday. I plan to get some more Amanos now I know they are doing fine.
To try and slow down the fast pace of the possible filamentous diatom algae I have reduced light to 20% and kept my 6-hour photoperiod. Stopped dosing Tropica specialized after the initial 2ml dose after the water change.
The silicates in my tap water are a little concerning. I've always found no matter how mature my tank is, diatom-like algae on leaves and new leaves get it pretty quickly once they begin to get bigger. No amount of water changes helped it which now, after diving deeper into beating algae, I think my tap water here doesn't help it one bit. I'm not sure how the silicates in my tapwater however are being filtered out when in the tank.

Are my nitrate levels too high? I need to do a test of nitrates on the tapwater next to see how that is but that will be for tomorrow or another day.


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## dw1305 (18 Mar 2022)

Hi all,


Greeny said:


> Are my nitrate levels too high? I need to do a test of nitrates on the tapwater


Just get accurate figures from your water supplier (<"Anglian Water?">). They have an analytical lab. so should be able to give you <"an accurate range of values">.

Having said that I wouldn't worry about nitrate levels, <"NO3- isn't toxic to fish"> until you get to high levels <"and plants will actively deplete it">


Greeny said:


> The silicates in my tap water are a little concerning. I've always found no matter how mature my tank is, diatom-like algae on leaves and new leaves get it pretty quickly once they begin to get bigger. No amount of water changes helped it which now, after diving deeper into beating algae, I think my tap water here doesn't help it one bit.


I'd <"ignore silica as well">.

cheers Darrel


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## Greeny (24 Apr 2022)

Hi guys,

Time for an update. Well things are going a lot better. I dimmed the lights to 20% and barely dosed ferts. Amazing how much easier it is to maintain. I even left it at least two weeks before even touching it, and no algae. I had added two-horned nerite snails and 2 Amano shrimp. Unfortunately, one of them must have died because it disappeared, but the other is still alive and kicking. I will get him some friends at some point. The rocks haven't had any algae build-up, and Anubis leaves are looking much better. I'm glad I got crypts, and easy plants because I have definitely learned how much easier it is to maintain with low energy.  I wouldn't do away with co2 though, regardless. The only plant that just doesn't seem to grow healthy is the Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini'. Even when I grew it with higher light, the leaves would still get algae and diatom-looking algae.  I'm thinking about replacing it with something else. Does anyone know an excellent low-energy red stem plant that I could replace it with and would fit in with the Rotala H'ra? I don't feel like I want to increase the light yet, but I wonder if the Monte Carlo will suffer cause of it. As it stands now, I'm much happier with the maintenance level. I can cope much better.

The biggest bonus of all is that the brown filamentous algae are nearly all gone, and I didn't even have to remove them. It just slowly disappeared. I noticed it wasn't growing much once I lean dosed and practically stopped water changing.  Below is the picture before I removed the Monte Carlo to tidy it up with the floating plants and the second is after I completed the aforementioned job. I didn't have time to clean the pipes and that will be done on Tuesday.





Feels nice to be on top of the algae finally and I'd like to thank everyone who helped me to get there, very much appreciated. Hopefully, now I can enjoy the hobby again. So, for anyone else going through a similar situation I went through, in summary, what I did was...

1, reduced the lighting a lot, down to 20% (stuck with a 6-hour photoperiod)
2a, get rid of as much detritus and debris as possible (in my case I removed all the plants and hardscape to do it as it was so bad)
2b, an introduction to a stem plant that helps with detritus and filtering light when floating, thanks to DHNelson for sending me some over, very grateful.
3, checked nitrate and phosphate levels to see if I needed to dose with or without them. Keeping a base level in the tank.
4,  Very rarely dosed any ferts being sure the plants still looked healthy and the nitrate and phosphate levels were present enough and not depleted.
5, Only added new water or performed a water change if I felt it needed it, just in case my tap water was not helping with this particular algae. Water changing was surprisingly rare. in fact, mostly the evaporation was the main reason I  ended up adding new water.
6, A regular filter maintenance regime.
7, Adding 2 nerite snails and 2 Amano shrimp which ended up becoming 1 shrimp as the other disappeared early on.

I still get some brown algae on the some leaves but it's not as bad as I've had it in the past. I don't know how to get rid of this completely but I'm much happier now.


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## GHNelson (24 Apr 2022)

Hi 
That's good news, your winning the battle.
What you could also do also is add a piece of black card to cover the back of the tank to stop a lot of reflection off the white wall.


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## Greeny (24 Apr 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Hi
> That's good news, your winning the battle.
> What you could also do also is add a piece of black card to cover the back of the tank to stop a lot of reflection off the white wall.



That's a good idea, I'll look to do that, it would be nice to increase the light a little bit to be sure that the demand from all the plants is met. I added 2 more to the list which I forgot, good filter maintenance regime and the use of the floating stem plants that you sent me  thanks for all your help, UKAPs has saved me for sure.


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## palcente (25 Apr 2022)

Greeny said:


> The only plant that just doesn't seem to grow healthy is the Alternanthera Reineckii ''Mini'. Even when I grew it with higher light, the leaves would still get algae and diatom-looking algae.


You could try and give ARM a chance before you chuck it. If it is rooted properly, you can cut it at the substrate and it will grow back - it's quite a hardy plant like that.


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