# How to know if your tank is cycling...



## AlexH (28 Oct 2016)

Hi guys...

Im into my second week of a fishless cycle.

I've got ADA AS down which is leeching.

I've just performed my second 90% water change.

I'm not great at reading the test results. .. so I'm not sure how accurate I am... but here goes:

22nd Oct - Ammonia: 1.2, Nitrate: 15 (approx) and Nitrite: 0.8
26th Oct - Ammonia: 1.2, Nitrate: 7.8 and Nitrite: 1.2-1.3
28th Oct - Ammonia: 1.0, Nitrate: 7.8 and Nitrites: 1.2-1.1.2-1.3

I guess my first concern is the nitrate and nitrite test make the water pink I dont know how accurately I'm reading the results.

Secondly, just done a big water change. I realise ive been refilling the tank from my hose pipe with freezing water.

Today, I filled most the tank (85%) and topped up the rest with very high temp water. 

I've been using a water purifier that also adds live bacteria. 

Is it possible that I killed my filter bacteria on the first occasion when I re filled fully with cold water?

And is my tank cycling?! >.<

Feedback appreciated folks 

Thanks!
Alex


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## ian_m (28 Oct 2016)

Are you adding dechlorinator? Chlorine will kill the bacteria and stall the cycle or even cause it to be restarted every time you change water.

The presence of dechlorinator and chlorine will give erroneous test results as well.


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## AlexH (28 Oct 2016)

Yup I do


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

ian_m said:


> Are you adding dechlorinator? Chlorine will kill the bacteria and stall the cycle or even cause it to be restarted every time you change water.
> 
> The presence of dechlorinator and chlorine will give erroneous test results as well.



Hello ian_m, I want to ask a bit silly question I think... but still I need to ask... when using dechlorinator (in my situation Seachem Prime) do I need to use it directly in to the tank when doing weekly 50% water changes after I change the water or do I need to use it before I add water to the tank (use separetly in a bucket or large water filled container) and then add treated water to the tank?


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## sciencefiction (29 Oct 2016)

tadabis said:


> Hello ian_m, I want to ask a bit silly question I think... but still I need to ask... when using dechlorinator (in my situation Seachem Prime) do I need to use it directly in to the tank when doing weekly 50% water changes after I change the water or do I need to use it before I add water to the tank (use separetly in a bucket or large water filled container) and then add treated water to the tank?



If you pour the new water directly into the tank, then add prime for the entire tank volume. Otherwise, just treat each bucket for its volume.

P.S. There is no need to treat for nitrAtes during cycling because the test converts any available nitrItes to nitrAtes Therefore you'd always get a nitrate reading in an uncycled tank if there is any nitrites.


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> If you pour the new water directly into the tank, then add prime for the entire tank volume. Otherwise, just treat each bucket for its volume.



But what about weekly water changes? what will happen if i leave 50% tank water and add 50% new water directly to the tank and then use prime to treat it? will it harm the fish and filter bacteria?

So the only right way to treat water is just in separate container or bucket?


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## tim (29 Oct 2016)

tadabis said:


> But what about weekly water changes? what will happen if i leave 50% tank water and add 50% new water directly to the tank and then use prime to treat it? will it harm the fish and filter bacteria?
> 
> So the only right way to treat water is just in separate container or bucket?


I fill my tanks straight from the tap with a hosepipe, add prime to the tank for the tank volume, never had any issues with fish or filter bacteria.


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## sciencefiction (29 Oct 2016)

tadabis said:


> But what about weekly water changes? what will happen if i leave 50% tank water and add 50% new water directly to the tank and then use prime to treat it? will it harm the fish and filter bacteria?



No, I've done that for years. I do put the prime directly into the tank just before I start pouring the new water.


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## AlexH (29 Oct 2016)

This is what im currently doing... and for safe keeping keeping I always add a little extra ontop of the normal dosage.


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## ian_m (29 Oct 2016)

The instructions for prime state either add into container the right amount or if dosing the tank, regardless of water % change, always dose for the tank volume.


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> No, I've done that for years. I do put the prime directly into the tank just before I start pouring the new water.



I read on Seachem website that prime is active and treats water in just about 2 minutes. The question is if you pour prime before new water goes in to the tank will it be the same 100% active after you will finish pouring new water to the tank because it can take longer then 10-15 min to fill the tank to the top?


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## sciencefiction (29 Oct 2016)

tadabis said:


> I read on Seachem website that prime is active and treats water in just about 2 minutes. The question is if you pour prime before new water goes in to the tank will it be the same 100% active after you will finish pouring new water to the tank because it can take longer then 10-15 min to fill the tank to the top?



As other mentioned, I never had a problem doing it this way. I do put a bit more prime than needed up to a 2x dose. Don't worry about the filling time. Prime is active for the next 24hrs as far as I know so unless it takes you a day to fill the tank ...


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## AlexH (29 Oct 2016)

How long should i wait after adding the dechlorinator to the water before restarting the filter?

Approximately...

Thanks
Alex


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> As other mentioned, I never had a problem doing it this way. I do put a bit more prime than needed up to a 2x dose. Don't worry about the filling time. Prime is active for the next 24hrs as far as I know so unless it takes you a day to fill the tank ...



Hmm I am no expert thats why I am asking  also what is written in Seachem website along with dechlorination time (works in about 2 minutes) that prime binds Amonia and nitrites for up to 24-48 hours... Because my english isn't a born language I am trying to figure out the exact prime working principle... is it active and like you say dechlorinates for up to 48 hours or it just binds amonia ant nitrite spikes for up to 48 hours but dechlorination process is done within 2 minutes and thats it  I am sorry if my questions looks stupid to more experienced fish keepers  but I like to ask till I understand how it really works. Thank you.


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## sciencefiction (29 Oct 2016)

You can send Seachem an e-mail although I doubt it they'll explain exactly how Prime works. The point is, it does work even if you're pouring water for quarter of an hour after you dosed. So I'll question their 2 minutes explanation. Its probably for marketing purposes.


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## sciencefiction (29 Oct 2016)

By the way, can you post the link where it says that the "de-chlorination process is done within 2 minutes"?


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> By the way, can you post the link where it says that the "de-chlorination process is done within 2 minutes"?


I found it somewhere here in seachem support forum in FAQ where seachem administrator answers a given questions...

http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/1803-prime-questions


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## tadabis (29 Oct 2016)

Thank you everyone for the answers! Thats all I wanted to know that it is completely safe to pour 50% of new water directly to the tank with fish and plants inside it and then treat a full tank volume with Prime according to dosage instructions, wait a couple of minutes, start filter again and that the fishes will not be effected or harmed by chlorine when the new water (not yet treated with Prime) is introduced to the tank with 50% old water.

Thanks,
Tadas


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## AlexH (30 Oct 2016)

Im going to shamelessly bump this and ask if any of you guys can assist with my Qs ^_^


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## alto (30 Oct 2016)

AlexH said:


> And is my tank cycling?! >.<



what are the tap water values?



AlexH said:


> Is it possible that I killed my filter bacteria on the first occasion when I re filled fully with cold water?


unlikely - it's actually quite difficult to "kill" bacteria, though you can slow them down substantially ("bacteriostat" vs "bacteriocide") 

I'm a but dubious of the claims to "read" (measure) various compounds to the degree of accuracy implied by that decimal reading, ie
1.0
1.2
0.8
7.8
etc

What value do you get when you perform sample readings in duplicate? triplicate?

Test 1
remove volume of water from tank & test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in duplicate (report values)

Test 2
remove a second sample of water from tank & test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate in duplicate

Test 3
repeat Tests 1 & 2 using tap water in place of tank water
- this should give you  "control" or "background" readings

Test 5
Check kits readings/your technique using the positive standards supplied with test kits, eg ammonia, nitrite, nitrate
(if there are none, look for test kits that include these)

Test 6
Add ammonia to tank to provide an expected 2 ppm ammonia
 - check tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate values

Add ammonia to tank to provide an expected 4ppm ammonia 
 - check tank water values

Doing all of this will give you an idea of how accurate/relevant  your present data is.


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## zozo (30 Oct 2016)

The answer to the question "How to know if your tank is cycling..." is always a bit vague, i even doubt if it can be adressed with one all combining short answer, without rewriting the complete Diana Walstad books.. 

Your tank will start cycling from the moment you put water in it and the bacteria start to multiply.

The way cycling an aquarium is explained sometimes is a bit distracting and is stated if the ammoinia and nitrite peakes are over the tank is cycled. But actualy this should be changed in "the tank is from that point on safe enough to put lifestock in".  In general it is advised to setup an aquarium, put water in it and let it run for a number of weeks before lifestock is put in. This to give the nitrifying bacteria a while to multiply to sufficient numbers before extra waste (ammonia = pooping critters) are added.

Bottom line is an aquarium starts to cycle from day 1 it is setup and it will never stop doing that til the day it dies. The way it is cycling depends on a lot of external factors with many variables you just can not give a number to..  For example, a dirt substrate aquarium will start to cycle in a slightly different way than a tank setup with sand only.


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## AlexH (30 Oct 2016)

alto said:


> what are the tap water values?
> 
> 
> unlikely - it's actually quite difficult to "kill" bacteria, though you can slow them down substantially ("bacteriostat" vs "bacteriocide")
> ...



This is great thanks.

The decimals are my estimates when i compare my readings to the standarised colour charts - i never thought to compare my results with a set of control readings.

When you make ref to duplicates... to be clear; when testing water, i should test it numerously?

Thanks


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## Costa (30 Oct 2016)

@OP
Why are you doing water changes in a fishless tank cycling?? The idea of cycling is to use the high NH4 and NH3 to your advantage, i.e. give time for ammonia-eating bacteria to appear, multiply and colonize your filter media. If you do water changes you are taking away the bacteria that have grown in your water and their food (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite).

You should be monitoring NH4 and NH3 and once these start going down (due to bacteria consuming i then also start monitoring nitrates. Do NOT do water changes while cycling your tank and filter media!


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## AlexH (30 Oct 2016)

Costa said:


> @OP
> Why are you doing water changes in a fishless tank cycling?? The idea of cycling is to use the high NH4 and NH3 to your advantage, i.e. give time for ammonia-eating bacteria to appear, multiply and colonize your filter media. If you do water changes you are taking away the bacteria that have grown in your water and their food (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite).
> 
> You should be monitoring NH4 and NH3 and once these start going down (due to bacteria consuming i then also start monitoring nitrates. Do NOT do water changes while cycling your tank and filter media!



I did think that but TGM recommended the WCs on a weekly basis!


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## Costa (30 Oct 2016)

If you had like over 10ppm NH4 I would also do a water change, but with the concentrations you reported the water changes are simply taking away all the  food source of your good bacteria and as a result it will take ages for them to grow and colonize your filter. I would leave the tank cycle without any water changes. If you keep removing the NH4 & NH3, how is the cycle going to be completed?  Not to mention that you are also removing the bacteria that have been growing in your tank water.

As soon as NH4 drops to ~0, you will see a peak of NO2, after a while the NO2 will read zero and you will get a peak of NO3 - at this point your filter is colonized with good bacteria and you have to do a big water change to bring the NO3 to ca 20ppm (definitelly no more than 50ppm). 

Now you must gradually add fish, because you need a continuous source of ammonia. Of course your substrate is giving out ammonia but not at the intial rate, which means that if NH4 gets depleted, the bacteria have nothing to feed on, they die, NO3 spikes and that kills your fish.

If you want to accelerate the process, you may use some commercially available bacteria products (Sera bio-nitrivec for e.g.) which people have used with good success.


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## alto (30 Oct 2016)

AlexH said:


> When you make ref to duplicates... to be clear; when testing water, i should test it numerously?


yes, this will give you a "read" on how reproducible your own actions are

It's much simpler if you've a positive control solution (usually something that is mid range on the test kit range) as this removes some other variables from the process.


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## AlexH (30 Oct 2016)

Costa said:


> If you had like over 10ppm NH4 I would also do a water change, but with the concentrations you reported the water changes are simply taking away all the  food source of your good bacteria and as a result it will take ages for them to grow and colonize your filter. I would leave the tank cycle without any water changes. If you keep removing the NH4 & NH3, how is the cycle going to be completed?  Not to mention that you are also removing the bacteria that have been growing in your tank water.
> 
> As soon as NH4 drops to ~0, you will see a peak of NO2, after a while the NO2 will read zero and you will get a peak of NO3 - at this point your filter is colonized with good bacteria and you have to do a big water change to bring the NO3 to ca 20ppm (definitelly no more than 50ppm).
> 
> ...



This makes complete sense. Of course, when the people who are experts advise you contrary, it causes confusion.

Thank you for spending the time to give such a thorough response.


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## sciencefiction (30 Oct 2016)

tadabis said:


> I found it somewhere here in seachem support forum in FAQ where seachem administrator answers a given questions...
> 
> http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/1803-prime-questions



The only reference about timing in relation to the de-chlorination process in that link is:

_"10-14-2011, 16:36
Re: Prime questions...

You are welcome!

1. Prime works immediately upon adding it to the water.

2. Prime works immediately regardless of the water's pH.

I hope this helps!"
_
To me this just sounds as if Prime becomes active immediately, which it should but it does not mean the process is all over in 2 minutes.


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## Costa (30 Oct 2016)

AlexH said:


> This makes complete sense. Of course, when the people who are experts advise you contrary, it causes confusion.
> 
> Thank you for spending the time to give such a thorough response.



Pleasure. I, too, started from zero. If you browse through the forum you'll find that I ask a lot of questions. Don't be afraid to ask and good luck with your tank.

Costa


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## tadabis (30 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> The only reference about timing in relation to the de-chlorination process in that link is:
> 
> _"10-14-2011, 16:36
> Re: Prime questions...
> ...



Maybe you are right... I was reading (googling lots of threads about Prime) and maybe my collected information mixed in my head  anyway thank you for answers!


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## dw1305 (30 Oct 2016)

Hi all,





Costa said:


> which means that if NH4 gets depleted, the bacteria have nothing to feed on, they die, NO3 spikes and that kills your fish.


Get a way with you. Honestly this isn't true. Nearly all the "facts" (that you read on forums) about cycling are wrong and based on a series of half-truths and misunderstanding.

Have a look at <"Oxygen levels required..."> and <"New tank, leave it? or not?">. (from the latter)





dw1305 said:


> "Cycled" or "not cycled" isn't really a very useful concept. There isn't a sudden switch from "toxic" to "fish safe", in all biological filtration systems there is a continuum from no capability to deal with ammonia & nitrite through to the ability to process wastes with enormous <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand"> (BOD). BOD is the prime metric, and we are really interested in <"oxygen"> (filtration bit is towards the end) and not ammonia at all.
> 
> The advantage of plants is that they are net oxygen producers, they directly take up ammonia, and they create a much larger area for microbial colonisation, because of this plant/microbe filtration systems can potentially deal with about an order of magnitude more bioload than microbe only systems can.
> 
> There is a pretty exhaustive discussion of cycling in <"Best way to cycle...">


cheers Darrel


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## Manisha (30 Oct 2016)

Hi Alex, I thought I'd mention with Amazonia you've two processes happening with a fishless cycle - the ordinary filter establishing bacteria & huge ammonia leeching! Even with an established setup & adding ADA AS the second process may take 4-8 weeks (depending on batch)Because of the latter, water changes are essential despite how inconvenient! The leeching process keeps your ammonia at high levels during this period & there is little you can do to prevent this.



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Get a way with you.



Darrel humour is few & far between, but priceless however   we were all silly once!


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## AlexH (30 Oct 2016)

Manisha said:


> Hi Alex, I thought I'd mention with Amazonia you've two processes happening with a fishless cycle - the ordinary filter establishing bacteria & huge ammonia leeching! Even with an established setup & adding ADA AS the second process may take 4-8 weeks (depending on batch)Because of the latter, water changes are essential despite how inconvenient! The leeching process keeps your ammonia at high levels during this period & there is little you can do to prevent this.
> 
> 
> 
> Darrel humour is few & far between, but priceless however   we were all silly once!



Lol now im confused again :,)

Ive done two big 90% WCs but ive been told i shouldnt have as in essentially removing bacteria and its food....

Please assist 

Thanks!
Alex


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## sciencefiction (31 Oct 2016)

I come from the old school of people that did fishless cycling from scratch with no mature media and by dosing ammonia.
In all the fishless cycles I've done, the process was all over and safe for fish in about 4 weeks.

It takes about 7 days for the tank to convert around 3ppm ammonia every 24hrs. After that you get the nitrite spike and it is then you need to do the water changes because it goes into the tens and hundred ppm range and you might as well wait half a year for these levels to convert to nitrates. There will be never such levels of nitrite in a normal aquarium at once.

But this is based on controlled dosing of ammonia and not from soil leaching ammonia...

So I'd do 90% water changes during cycling if the ammonia is over around 4ppm range. You can't leave huge amounts of ammonia in there because you end up with massive nitrite levels which won't go away for ages..High ammonia levels may also inhibit the same bacteria you are trying to culture.

If the ammonia stays at around 3ppm-4ppm max, I'd just leave the tank alone. Do the water change if the nitrites start spiking beyond the test limit, which they will if the ammonia was way too much in the first place. And do water changes if you have soft water as the Kh will rapidly go down and crash the Ph. Then the cycle will go on for months....It takes a lot longer to cycle a soft water tank but planting helps to reduce the ammonia and the ammonia is non-toxic in soft water so people get away with stocking these tanks early.

As far as removing all the ammonia via water changes, it is possible to remove too much and one just slows down the cycle that way if the majority is always removed. But soil is supposed to leach ammonia constantly so lots of it goes undetected as the cycle pretty much starts within a day or two.

Those that claim it takes way longer for the nitrite stage are pretty much wrong. Its simply because after bombarding the system with so much ammonia, the levels of nitrites have gone so massive, it takes weeks for enough bacteria to grow to bring them down.  But we're aren't going to keep whales in the tanks.... It pretty much takes one week for the ammonia stage and two weeks for the nitrite stage. The 4th week is for safety....Then I stock fully if I know the system has converted 3-4ppm ammonia a day for the lats few days and all levels are at 0 after 12-24hrs.

Then I change all the water in the tank and its ready for fish. I've never lost new fish in a tank cycled like that, even sensitive ones.

Cycling with soil and plants is exactly the same process with that difference you can't control the ammonia levels.....There's no difference otherwise and I've cycled fishlessly a tank with plants without any issues whatsoever. So again those that claim the high levels of ammonia kill plants, are wrong too...Ammonia is ammonia, whether from fish, from soil or from a bottle. Plants love it...as long as you stick to 3ppm max at any time during cycling.


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## Costa (31 Oct 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Get a way with you. Honestly this isn't true. Nearly all the "facts" (that you read on forums) about cycling are wrong and based on a series of half-truths and misunderstanding.



I'm not sure how to counter this, except by pointing out that I've followed the process I described for all my tanks and never lost a fish upon introduction to the new tanks and the 1,5 years the tanks have been running.

Of course every tank is unique, I am based in Greece where for the most part the water is much harder than what you have in the UK, so that might be a factor. On the other hand, I keep tetras which aren't the most hardy of fish.

I humbly offer my advice based on my experience over the 2 years I've been involved with the hobby, I sure as hell don't know it all


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## alto (31 Oct 2016)

AlexH said:


> Ive done two big 90% WCs but ive been told i shouldnt have as in essentially removing bacteria and its food....


If that were true, my tanks would be "barren" 
I've done essentially complete water changes (think multiple 90%) when rescaping tanks etc & filters/tanks certainly remained "_cycled_"

It's been a long time since I've set up any tanks without having some sort of media from a previous set up ...
I did a break of a couple years at one point, storing filter media damp in canisters ... when I finally set the tanks going again,  they "smelled" like cycled tanks within a few days.
Further I'm lazy so I just used Seachem's Ammonia Alert & 5in1 test strips (not my preferred brand but they're OK) to monitor nitrogens: ammonia never measured above "Alert" status, nitrites remained "undetected" (API strips are not as sensitive as some other brands), nitrates detected after a few days (I'm just tossing in some fish food)
I used Tropica Growth Substrate & Aquarium Soil, plants put in at start, shrimp & otocinclus added at ~Day 7, then fish after a few weeks.


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## dw1305 (31 Oct 2016)

Hi all, 





Costa said:


> I'm not sure how to counter this, except by pointing out that I've followed the process I described for all my tanks and never lost a fish upon introduction to the new tanks and the 1,5 years the tanks have been running.


 Yes, you can successfully "cycle" a tank with ammonia, but you can also just leave a planted, filtered tank to establish over ~6 weeks. 

The main point is that the principal metric that limits nitrification (biological filtration) isn't the availability of ammonia,* it is the availability of oxygen*. Because of this, as scientists, we quantify the level of pollution using the Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD). 

Like Marcel (Zozo) says there isn't a binary switch from non-cycled to cycled,  there is a continuum, dependent upon the bioload your system can cope with.  As a general rule planted tanks with floating and emergent plants (plant microbe systems) and a large gas exchange surface are about an order of magnitude more efficient at nitrification than microbe only systems.

Have a look through the linked threads (and links): <"Oxygen levels required..."> and <"New tank, leave it? or not?"> for some more details.

cheers Darrel


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## sciencefiction (31 Oct 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD).



I agree that a functional planted tank is way more capable of dealing with heavy bioload. I am wondering though, isn't the oxygen content more compromised in a new tank with organic rich soil then it is in an inert substrate planted tank cycled with ammonia?

The oxygen content can plummet really dangerously in a soil tank when starting it up if one doesn't ensure sufficient oxygenation by other means rather than plants.

Most of the floating plants people keep really struggle with "large gas exchange" because the latter is achieved by vigorous surface movement and the floaters do very badly with that in my personal experience. That's how I always killed my floaters, especially the frogbit as its roots got caught pulling the leaves underwater. For that reason I find emersed plants with their roots only in water more practical in consuming excess nitrogen.


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## dw1305 (31 Oct 2016)

Hi all,





sciencefiction said:


> I am wondering though, isn't the oxygen content more compromised in a new tank with organic rich soil then it is in an inert substrate planted tank cycled with ammonia?


 Yes it would be. Because of the oxidisation of the organic matter in the flooded soil the aquarium could potentially have a very large BOD.

The nature of the carbon (C), and the availability of nitrogen (N), would become important then. If the nitrogen level was low, and/or the carbon relatively inaccessible structural carbohydrates (like lignin), then you still wouldn't have a huge BOD.

There is discussion here: <"Is organic matter...">. 





sciencefiction said:


> The oxygen content can plummet really dangerously in a soil tank when starting it up if one doesn't ensure sufficient oxygenation by other means rather than plants.


In the case of starting a soil tank I would want as much oxygenation as possible. I think this is a situation where I would definitely favour a wet and dry trickle filter, and best of all a planted wet and dry trickle filter.





sciencefiction said:


> For that reason I find emersed plants with their roots only in water more practical in consuming excess nitrogen.


 Emergent plants probably are the optimal solution if you can use fit them in. 

cheers Darrel


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## AlexH (31 Oct 2016)

Okay so...

Further to my last readings.

I undertook a 95% water change on Friday just gone.

Ive just tested my water parameters today.

On my tap water control - I got 0 for both ammonia and nitrite.

I did two sets of water tests for each - both returned identicle results.

Ammonia - between 0 - 0.6
Nitrite - between 0.3 - 0.8

Theyre significantly reduced from my previous... good sign?

Thanks!
Alex


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## rebel (1 Nov 2016)

Darrel you need to write a cycling guide (plants only) and sciencefiction should write one for ammonia method. 

I support both methods. If you use aquasoil, then you are infact using a hybrid method. 

For the noobs watching, your tank will cycle eventually, regardless, around the 6 weeks mark. Just keep filter running. Add plants and some ammonia (if you want) and WAIT; 6 weeks. No less.


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## Manisha (1 Nov 2016)

AlexH said:


> Lol now im confused again :,)
> 
> Ive done two big 90% WCs but ive been told i shouldnt have as in essentially removing bacteria and its food....
> 
> ...



Sorry, I just found when using AS myself, similarly to you without plants, the supply of ammonia does climb to 8ppm (possibly more but the API master test only reads up to 8).

These very high levels are counterproductive as explained by sciencefiction above ☺
I have soft water & experienced a pH crash too (about 5 I think). Which can stall the cycling process (like denaturing enzymes). Therefore I would think without water changes the process would take longer.

Only two weeks into cycling is early days, in relation to my guess of 4 - 8 weeks so try not to worry & practice having patience - extremely hard with a new set up but useful when running a planted tank in general. Also practice with doing water changes is no bad thing, the more you do, the faster you get at them!



AlexH said:


> Okay so...
> 
> Further to my last readings.
> 
> ...



Certainly moving in the right direction ☺ but although your first cycle will happen the leeching ammonia can 'hurt' your bacteria in a closed tank so water changes are still necessary I found ( my low ph didn't help though)



Costa said:


> I'm not sure how to counter this, except by pointing out that I've followed the process I described for all my tanks and never lost a fish upon introduction to the new tanks and the 1,5 years the tanks have been running.
> 
> Of course every tank is unique, I am based in Greece where for the most part the water is much harder than what you have in the UK, so that might be a factor. On the other hand, I keep tetras which aren't the most hardy of fish.
> 
> I humbly offer my advice based on my experience over the 2 years I've been involved with the hobby, I sure as hell don't know it all



This is exactly how I was taught to cycle & is the popular method for non planted tanks but feel isn't applicable when using an enriched soil or planted tank as a source of ammonia, decaying organic matter is already present, I used your method too for a pair of Jack Dempsey cichlids & also dwarf Gouramis & they thrived but if I was to do those set ups again would definately  use soil & plants ☺


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## dw1305 (1 Nov 2016)

Hi all,





rebel said:


> Darrel you need to write a cycling guide.....


No. If he had known the kind of response that the cycling posts generated, I wouldn't have posted any of them in the first place.

It all seemed so innocuous and obvious, there was this flood of research from the aquaculture and waste water industry on constructed wetlands, and I only had to tell fish-keepers about these advances, and how they would benefit from healthier fish and more robust tanks, but from the response the posts generated you would think that I'd posted a more efficient technique for _"microwaving kittens"._

After some research I found that a lot of the content I'd posted actually already existed in two books on fish-keeping, Diana Walstad's <"The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium"> and Horst and Kipper's <"The Optimum Aquarium">, so it was more a case that you _can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink._


rebel said:


> ..........(plants only).


That would sort of be the point, it isn't really "plants only", it is always"plants and microbes".

The sort of seminal work was Stottmeister _et al_. (2003) <"Effects of plants and micro-organisms in constructed wetlands for wastewater treatment"> Biotechnology Advances *22 *pp. 93–117 and the <"768 subsequent papers"> that cite it.

cheers Darrel


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## AlexH (1 Nov 2016)

Thanks for your awesome insight darrel!

Perhaps you may be able to assist.

When i perform WCs i use Interpret Bioactive Tapsafe Plus... many fancy words to describe something that makes water safe from metals chlorine and chloramines.

My question is RE the bacteria... how can they be alive?! is there really bacteria in here?

Thanks!


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## dw1305 (1 Nov 2016)

Hi all,





AlexH said:


> is there really bacteria in here?


No, it says: "_Boosts good bacteria to keep the aquarium healthy and clean_", whatever that means. 

I don't use a water conditioner (I've never used tap water), but I know that some people are wary of conditioners that contain "Aloe vera", but other people like them. 

Because it is active against chloramine and heavy metals, it is probably similar to "Amquel" or "Prime".

cheers Darrel


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## AlexH (2 Nov 2016)

Hey guys..

By way of an update these are my results from a duplicate test i've conducted:

31st Oct - Ammonia - 0 - 0.6 and Nitrite - 0.3 - 0.8
02nd Nov - Ammonia 0 - 0.2 (Practically clear!!), Nitrite - 0.3 and Nitrate - 5 - 10

Any thoughts?  

Ive noticed significant improvements since adding the eheim water skimmer which has significantly increased water aggitation and oxygen diffusion.

Is the tank almost cycled (safe)? I'm getting excited to plant lol.

Alex


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## dw1305 (3 Nov 2016)

Hi all,





AlexH said:


> Is the tank almost cycled (safe)? I'm getting excited to plant l


Yes I would definitely plant the tank.

cheers Darrel


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## JMorgan (29 Jan 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes I would definitely plant the tank.
> 
> cheers Darrel


 Exquisite understatement. Thanks for the smile.


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