# Improving Cherry shrimp stock.



## Jaseon (7 Dec 2021)

Can low grade cherry shrimp be improved through breeding?


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## MichaelJ (7 Dec 2021)

Hi @Jaceree  I do not know for a fact. But I suppose you could. Say, if you separate the out the onces of each generation that shows lower grade from the ones that shows higher grade... I think thats pretty much what the breeders are doing.  I have all sorts of grades and colors of Neocaridina davidi's mixed up (Red, Blue, Yellow, Orange, Gold, Green)... I don't really bother about the grades - they are all high grade to me  

Cheers,
Michael


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## Gorillastomp (7 Dec 2021)

Like @MichaelJ said, it's pretty much what breeders do. The more mass that is breeding the quicker you can "up grade" your fish by mating the one with the desired feature. Can take years to achieve what you are looking for.


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## Aqua sobriquet (7 Dec 2021)

Mine breed like mad but I only get about 1-2% of the black and red ones. The rest are boring brown ones. I could either separate or cull but I don’t have a spare tank and I’m not into mass murder!


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## Kelvin12 (7 Dec 2021)

They do seem to readily breed back to the original dull colouring more than the ones we are aiming for.


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## Jaseon (8 Dec 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> Mine breed like mad but I only get about 1-2% of the black and red ones. The rest are boring brown ones. I could either separate or cull but I don’t have a spare tank and I’m not into mass murder!



Thats what i have in mind. Not to cull, but to focus on the more desirable ones. I like the idea of kind of starting from scratch with the low grade, and seeing what comes out of it. So am i understanding it right that the gene that turns them red to begin with is always present, but it gets a buff on the rare occasion, and gets highlighted more in certain individuals? Kinda like people who have good genetics, and end up with a six pack? lol.


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## Aqua sobriquet (8 Dec 2021)

I think you would be better off buying the colour you want and removing any you don’t like the colour of to another tank.


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## Jaseon (8 Dec 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> I think you would be better off buying the colour you want and removing any you don’t like the colour of to another tank.


Right so buy the best stock i can afford straight away? I will be setting up a second colony tank as a shrimp is a keeper no matter what grade it is.


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## Wookii (8 Dec 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> Mine breed like mad but I only get about 1-2% of the black and red ones. The rest are boring brown ones. I could either separate or cull but I don’t have a spare tank and I’m not into mass murder!



Culling in shrimp breeding doesn't mean actually killing the unwanted shrimp, but typically removing them from the breeding tank and selling them off cheap to folks who just want some general 'shrimp' in their tank. On sites like Shrimp Market Place on Band, you regularly see breeders selling off 'culls' from their main breeding tanks - it's actually a good way to pick up a bargain or two, as the cull shrimp are perfectly capable of producing fully coloured throwback offspring, just with less likelihood.


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## Aqua sobriquet (8 Dec 2021)

I’d give them away if I knew they’d be properly cared for!


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## Wookii (8 Dec 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> I’d give them away if I knew they’d be properly cared for!



You'd undoubtedly get takers in the classifieds on here. Most people on here prioritise the care of their tank inhabitants as far as I have been able to tell.


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## Jaseon (8 Dec 2021)

Wookii said:


> Culling in shrimp breeding doesn't mean actually killing the unwanted shrimp, but typically removing them from the breeding tank and selling them off cheap to folks who just want some general 'shrimp' in their tank. On sites like Shrimp Market Place on Band, you regularly see breeders selling off 'culls' from their main breeding tanks - it's actually a good way to pick up a bargain or two, as the cull shrimp are perfectly capable of producing fully coloured throwback offspring, just with less likelihood.



I picked up the term culling from watching a breeder on YT that went on to explain it don't actually mean killing the shrimp. I couldn't do that anyway, and wouldn't imagine anyone else doing that either. My farther in law has some amanos in one of his tanks so already have the idea of unloading any shrimp i may not want with him.


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## Aqua sobriquet (9 Dec 2021)

A couple of interesting ones out to eat today. A black one with a pink stripe and a dark pink one with a stripe.


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## Jaseon (10 Dec 2021)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> View attachment 178265A couple of interesting ones out to eat today. A black one with a pink stripe and a dark pink one with a stripe.


Skunk shrimp? lol.

I just bought 5 really good Cherry from maiden head aquatics. They netted two at one point and i said oh a freebie so happy.


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## Wolf6 (10 Dec 2021)

Jaceree said:


> Skunk shrimp? lol.
> 
> I just bought 5 really good Cherry from maiden head aquatics. They netted two at one point and i said oh a freebie so happy.
> 
> View attachment 178291View attachment 178292


Nice, are those the ones with the eh red 'flesh' as well as red skin?


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## Jaseon (10 Dec 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> Nice, are those the ones with the eh red 'flesh' as well as red skin?


Im not sure. I just picked out the best ones they had. I didn't know their flesh can be red also.


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## Jaseon (10 Dec 2021)

The shrimp i had for free is laying on its side so dont know what to do.


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## Greengeek (30 Jan 2022)

I think it depends on what’s hidden in the genetics, low grade neos might just be culls from a very high grade lines and potentially can produce some high grade offspring.

I’ve got a tank where I put all my culls from multiple coloured tanks and it’s been a while but every now and then I see a really lovely looking shrimp. Deepest solid red and brightest intense yellows etc where 99% are low grade or even wilds.

I then catch and select the better coloured shrimp and use them in my breeding projects. Of course there is then potential to pass on low grade genes back to the original colony but in these instances I remove them back to cull tank.
I hate killing any healthy animal so my culls retire to a huge 300l plus tank to breed like rabbits! Lol

Infact every non shrimp specific tank in my fish room has neos in now, even the tanks filled with Pufferfish and non filtered planted bowls. They breed like crazy and so hardy.


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## Jaseon (30 Jan 2022)

Greengeek said:


> I think it depends on what’s hidden in the genetics, low grade neos might just be culls from a very high grade lines and potentially can produce some high grade offspring.
> 
> I’ve got a tank where I put all my culls from multiple coloured tanks and it’s been a while but every now and then I see a really lovely looking shrimp. Deepest solid red and brightest intense yellows etc where 99% are low grade or even wilds.
> 
> ...


Ive been looking into the different varieties. That's pretty much what i want to do, but dont plan on having dozens of small tanks everywhere. I was thinking two decent sized tank which ive made myself then a larger cull tank. I found this chart interesting, and found a good vid on YT explaining the different types.


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## castle (30 Jan 2022)

I have two tanks for shrimp, well a couple of tubs now. 

You can start off with whatever you have, and keep pinching out any (after 6 months or so) which don't meet your chosen colour goal. It's not impossible to start with low grade cherries, and get to Bloody Mary. 

I know, this may seem cruel, or like mass murder, but my Goldfish need fed. I don't see feeding shrimp as any different to feeding snails and worms. At one point - one which I've certainly posted about here, I had well over 1000 red neocaridina, it's hard not to see them as food/income then. That said, I've recently decided to give shrimp away when I get a chance, as I'm resetting the tanks/plans.


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## shangman (30 Jan 2022)

I have a nano tank full of proper reds and they're lovely, but there's also something really nice about the wild type and the weird and interesting variations they throw up, I keep culls in my big tank.

At first I kept black cherries in my big tank - I had a few ones come out black from my red cherries - and I thought it looked cool so bought some more. But then Mr Apisto got added in (this was early with not enough cover) and I watched him eat a few of them and it worried me so I fished the rest out, they had a few babies, and now they live with @Courtneybst in his beautiful contest scape where they can multiply happily. I added some cull shrimp to the tank to keep Mr Apisto amused (they had been living in my pond outside), but they've almost all survived and bred well. I think look more natural than the red ones and that compliments the tank, though some still grow up and become bright red to spite me anyway. 😂 Now the tank is grown in there's a lot of opportunity for shrimps to thrive without being eaten, I catch a lot of babies in the filter when I clean it.

I definitely recommend a little outdoor waterlily pot pond kinda thing, then you can put your cull shrimps in that without guilt, mine survive the winter and bred over the summer. Also good for some rice fish, who don't seem to eat the shrimps either.


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## Jaseon (30 Jan 2022)

castle said:


> At one point - one which I've certainly posted about here, I had well over 1000 red neocaridina, it's hard not to see them as food/income then. That said, I've recently decided to give shrimp away when I get a chance, as I'm resetting the tanks/plans.


Im hoping to get to a point where by i can supply some LFS for some store credit or whatever. My first aim is to just gain some knowledge with them. I have a load of babies in my starter tank, and ive given up trying to count them all the time. I know ill soon have more than i can handle.


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## Jaseon (30 Jan 2022)

shangman said:


> I definitely recommend a little outdoor waterlily pot pond kinda thing, then you can put your cull shrimps in that without guilt, mine survive the winter and bred over the summer. Also good for some rice fish, who don't seem to eat the shrimps either.


I have a heater for one of my tanks, and just bought another for my new one. I was thinking about not using one seeing they can thrive in lower temperatures. I do not know the down side to that although ive heard lower temps can be better at avoiding certain fungi attacks.


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## shangman (30 Jan 2022)

Jaseon said:


> I have a heater for one of my tanks, and just bought another for my new one. I was thinking about not using one seeing they can thrive in lower temperatures. I do not know the down side to that although ive heard lower temps can be better at avoiding certain fungi attacks.


I keep my red cherries and crystal shrimps in an unheated tank atm, and they are doing fine. I also have some ricefish in there ready to go outside in late Spring (bought them this winter and felt like they shouldn't go outside immediately) The shrimps don't breed as much during winter without a heater but I don't mind that tbh, I had a lot of crystal deaths due to a dodgy heater before so happy to wait for summer for the natural temp to increase, you don't see any ugly heater in the back, and it saves on the electricity bills slightly!


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## Jaseon (30 Jan 2022)

shangman said:


> I keep my red cherries and crystal shrimps in an unheated tank atm, and they are doing fine. I also have some ricefish in there ready to go outside in late Spring (bought them this winter and felt like they shouldn't go outside immediately) The shrimps don't breed as much during winter without a heater but I don't mind that tbh, I had a lot of crystal deaths due to a dodgy heater before so happy to wait for summer for the natural temp to increase, you don't see any ugly heater in the back, and it saves on the electricity bills slightly!


So i think they need the warmer temps for faster growth, and breeding rates. Im not looking into becoming a pro breeder, so time is not a problem. I was just reading they have a higher chance of catching disease at lower temps so some of the advice out there is a bit conflicting. At lower temps the shrimp are believed to live longer, but as per usual cannot find any research other than the odd anecdotal here, and there.

Just read that 'At higher temperatures growth and breeding might be faster, but their life spans are considerably shorter due to the increase in their metabolic rate cause by those temperatures.' That makes sense.


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## Aqua sobriquet (30 Jan 2022)

I use a Habistat on my tanks. They say you can’t do it and it doesn’t work etc but it does. These type of things were popular as under tank heaters years ago but fell out of use for some reason.


			Heat mats & heat strips for your reptile | HabiStat


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## castle (30 Jan 2022)

Jaseon said:


> Im hoping to get to a point where by i can supply some LFS for some store credit or whatever. My first aim is to just gain some knowledge with them. I have a load of babies in my starter tank, and ive given up trying to count them all the time. I know ill soon have more than i can handle.



Make sure you get the colour good, LFS my way will only take the very best from breeders. 

I have done this before, and even with a paddling pool I could never keep up the supply 😩 I’ll find where I’ve given this advice before and share it here 👍


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## Jaseon (30 Jan 2022)

castle said:


> Make sure you get the colour good, LFS my way will only take the very best from breeders.
> 
> I have done this before, and even with a paddling pool I could never keep up the supply 😩 I’ll find where I’ve given this advice before and share it here 👍


When i was in my local maidenhead aquatics asking for shrimp they said if i find any breeders in the area to let them know as they are always on the look out for some. They did have a small mixed selection of various quality.


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