# need help - angel with worms



## James Flexton (22 Oct 2007)

Hi there,

tank = rio180, heavily planted, excellent water quality. under stocked and double filtered so no apparent problems there.

i messed up a few weeks ago and had the lights on 24/7 for 3 weeks. schedule returned to normal for 3 weeks now.

this tank is at work so on coming in this morning my adult angel (see avatar) has what looks like 10 bloodworms hanging from his anus. about 2cm long. i am about to perform a 50% water change but do not know what else to do. in 3 1/2 years my fish have got whitespot once and no other problems.

any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
James


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## Ed Seeley (22 Oct 2007)

Just to rule something out, have you fed them bloodworms recently?  Sometimes my Killies gorge themselves so much that some food passes out looking like it's barely been digested.  They have passed whole Black Mosquito Larvae before!

If not it does sound like worms and something like Flubenol or Wormer Plus (AE sells both) should clear them up.  It may take a couple of treatments though.  You may find that it's best to move the fish to a treatment tank with a bare, or sand, base so you can see when worms are being passed.


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (22 Oct 2007)

I think he may have eaten one of my curries! the bugger!


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## James Flexton (22 Oct 2007)

thanks eds,

no food since friday (tanks at work, no one her on W/E). no bloodworks fed for about 2 months, just dry food of various kinds (poor fish lol)

no spare tank (back to the @work situation). i will see if there is any progress by tomorrow. if not and they are still there i'll get onto AE for a remedy.

many thanks for the prompt reply. this is my fav fish and cannot contemplate losing him to some pesky worms. grrrr

James


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## James Flexton (22 Oct 2007)

Frolicsome_Flora said:
			
		

> I think he may have eaten one of my curries! the bugger!



lol, surely that would clear him out nicely. i have a bottle of tobasco in the office, if all else fails.....

(note to newbies I AM JOKING do not feed fish tobasco lol)


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## Ed Seeley (22 Oct 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> thanks eds,
> 
> no food since friday (tanks at work, no one her on W/E). no bloodworks fed for about 2 months, just dry food of various kinds (poor fish lol)
> 
> ...



Sounds like it's worms then.  If you can see them then you really need to treat her ASAP.  The QT tank would just allow you monitor the effects and make sure they don't spread to other fish, not essential.  I'd get one of the treatments and start soon.


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## James Flexton (22 Oct 2007)

ok mate, will do thanks


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## Ivan (22 Oct 2007)

Sounds like camallanus worms.
Have a look here about 3 quarters of the page down.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA091


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## fishgeek (22 Oct 2007)

as ivan says the about the only red aquatic worms seen are camallanus , a nematode 

theory suggests that it has a complex lifecycle(which needs an intermediate host, usually some small inveterbrate vector, daphnia type) so in an aquarium should not be a hugh problem

there are studies that show direct transmission of it 

if you are seeing them at the vent of any fish then i would strongly advise getting an effective antinematodal treatment into your tak asap

once they are visible the fish are often already ill with poor appetite and maynot recover
options for treatment include almost all of the benzimadol group, levamisol,fenbendazol, flubendazol.. whatever yo can source fastest 

andrew


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## James Flexton (23 Oct 2007)

thanks so much for your help guys. i have ordered flubenol from ebay, Â£4.50 and free postage (AE was same price but Â£2.95 postage).

should be here tomorrow.

i'll have to move the angel to my rekord 60 though as flubenol kills snails and i dont want to wipe out my trumpet and apple snails.  but as thats in the office as well that is no real problem. the guy at the LFS said to just pull them out with tweezers but i would imagine her guts will follow if i do that so i am going to completley ignore that advice.

thanks for the help people.

James


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## Ed Seeley (23 Oct 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> i'll have to move the angel to my rekord 60 though as flubenol kills snails and i dont want to wipe out my trumpet and apple snails.  but as thats in the office as well that is no real problem. the guy at the LFS said to just pull them out with tweezers but i would imagine her guts will follow if i do that so i am going to completley ignore that advice.



That has to be some of the worst advice I have ever seen for treating worms!  Aside from the stress it would cause the fish it won't deal with the problem at all!  Even if they came out without causing damage there will be many more inside the fish still carrying on happily!

The worst thing is that at least you are knowledgeable enough to know that was lousy advice.  What about all the people who will just take it as read and do it to their fish without thinking any more about it!


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## James Flexton (23 Oct 2007)

yeah tell me about it. i'd never been there before. it was within a garden centre near Royston, pretty average on the fish front but they did have some nice anubias on wood. the guy i was talking to seemed to be a manager of some kind (about 40 ish, in jeans and t-shirt. other staff were smarter and younger) 

he kept referring to Koi which was obviously his area of interest but i imagine doing that to koi would still not solve the problem and cause excessive stress.


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## fishgeek (23 Oct 2007)

i would be interested in you rresults with the flubendazol, i have not used it 

also let us know if the fish then spawns after , some claim of a hormone in amongst the wormer

andrew


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## James Flexton (24 Oct 2007)

no pronblem i will let you know how i get on.

as to the spawning i must explain. my fish is gender confused i'm afraid lol.

for 3 years i have been calling her Gemima then jeremy gay came round and commented on what a nice looking fella he is. it turns out she is a he but after so long the name stuck. i keep refering to him as a her, habit i suppose. lol. so unfortunatly i cannot help with the spawning question.


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## James Flexton (26 Oct 2007)

right then, my angel has been moved to a 10G tank which i overdosed with flubenol. the instructions say 10x overdose is okay and the sachet does 100G of water. i have used about 3/4 of it in two stages.

he's been in there just over 24 hours now and i can still see the worms but there is one gigantic turd working it's way past the side of the worms. definatly poo and not just a big worm.

i haven't seen him poo for a week so that has to be a good thing (oh the relief lol).

unfortunatly it's now the weekend so i will leave him in there and pop into the office tomorrow to check up on him. only a fish could get me in work on a saturday lol.

thanks for the help people and i'll update this when something noticeable happens. seems to be going the right way though and i'm quite relieved.

James


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## Ed Seeley (26 Oct 2007)

Glad to hear it's looking a bit more positive Jim.


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## fishgeek (26 Oct 2007)

mg ions in epsom salts may help with constipation

andrew


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## James Flexton (27 Oct 2007)

thanks guys.

someone on TFF sugested veg as a good de constipator. i was going to chop up some brocoli stems (briefly boiled) for him. what do you recon. they go straight through them and make quite a mess lol. in theory that would push the dead worms out with it on the way through i thought.


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