# Which laptop to go for?



## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

I'm going to be buying a new laptop soon and can't choose which to go for! I was originally going to get a MacBook but am a couldn't go without Windows. I could just imagine myself hating it after a while, despite their sexyness. Still, works out cheaper anyway!

I want something, small and leightweight that looks good and is quite cheap. I don't do much apart from browse the internet, sync my iPod (i.e. store music), watch films and do the odd bit of homework.

So, here's the two that I can't decide upon. 

The Sony is smaller and weighs less, which I like. But, it's slightly thicker and comes with XP instead of Vista. I could just about live with that, but would prefer Vista. It also has more storage than the other one, but less memory but that isn't too much of an issue - the stuff I want it for isn't demanding at all. Bearing in mind I also have more faith in Sony as a brand over Advent.

The Advent is slightly larger, but almost half the thickness which is nice. I like the 'fingerpring protection feature' and the fact that it has Vista but this all comes with a more expensive price tag. 

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... oid=-35074

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... oid=-27757

So, opinions? Thoughts? Advice? I know there's quite a few teccy guys on here, what do you think?


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## chilled84 (24 Sep 2009)

sony sony sony

stuff the macs, sounds likes the coat 
advent?? dont they mate calenders lol.   

No seriouse now, SONY!


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## Mark Evans (24 Sep 2009)

that advent seems over priced for the spec.in fact looking through all the advents seem to be robberey prices.

this for example...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... sku=585767

you can get twice the laptop for less money. PC world really are robbing gits! and crap after service to boot.

 i bought a Toshiba Satellite Pro U400-130 - Core 2 Duo 2.26 GHz - 13.3 " - 3 GB Ram - 250 GB HDD and found it for 500 quid....you need to search hard though. 

nowadays, dual core is minimum requirements IMO,(not in terms of running programs of course) and from being a user of dual and now i'm on Quad core, i'd spend a bit more on your laptop, to try and make it future proof as poss.


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## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

Thanks guys  looking at it now, the advent probably is too overpriced for what it is. I think the Sony is great value but I'm just so dissapointed it comes with XP rather than Vista! 

Mark - I would spend a bit more on the laptop but I think every system has it's lifespan and there's no point in going for top of the range with loads of memory etc when I don't need it. I've had a Toshiba for around 18 months now, and it's still going strong from me looking after it. Before that, I had a top of the range Sony Vaio and that was running for about five years, which is probably quite reasonable considering it took a bit of bashing from me being younger and I didn't really know what I was doing when downloading software and stuff. 

So the Sony it is!

Just to clarify - it doesn't have a disk slot thing to put in CDs etc (forgotten what it's called).

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... ll&tm=null

Would this act as a normal disk drive thing and allow me to import CDs to iTunes, watch DVDs etc?


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## chilled84 (24 Sep 2009)

why the hell would you want vista?? UI have loaded that onto my pc and have hated it ever since. Wish i had XP! how can you moan about a op stystem that does what it says on the tin! clearly still in my eyes its got to be the sone.


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## JamesC (24 Sep 2009)

chilled84 - could please chill out a bit and stop being so aggressive. Just because you don't like Vista doesn't mean that everybody else has to dislike it as well. Yes, it has some problems but for most home users it works well and is my preferred choice for home use as well.
PS, a spell checker wouldn't go amiss as I couldn't make head or tail of half your post

I fix up old broken laptops as a sideline along with repairing friends/neighbours machines. Most of the big name brands like HP/Compaq, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu build very respectable machines these days. I've never liked the Advent machines but they work well enough. Any dual core machine with 2GB ram will be fine for you. Sony make very nice stylish machines but are a tad overpriced for what they are imho. Set your budget and then go and see which machine suits your needs. Try and get one that will do the Windows 7 upgrade free if that is what you would want to do.

I have noticed that prices in the past couple of months have started to increase quite dramatically, especially HP. This is for business machines but I'd expect the same to be true for home machines.

HTH
James


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## vauxhallmark (24 Sep 2009)

rawr said:
			
		

> Just to clarify - it doesn't have a disk slot thing to put in CDs etc (forgotten what it's called).
> 
> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... ll&tm=null
> 
> Would this act as a normal disk drive thing and allow me to import CDs to iTunes, watch DVDs etc?



If that connects to the laptop OK then it will do exactly what you say above.

I haven't looked at the specs of the laptops you mentioned, but one thing that hasn't been spoken about is the warranty - worth comparing them to when you're comparing laptops.

Good luck with your choice - it's always daunting!

Mark


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## chilled84 (24 Sep 2009)

chilled84 said:
			
		

> why the hell would you want vista?? UI have loaded that onto my pc and have hated it ever since. Wish i had XP! how can you moan about a op stystem that does what it says on the tin! clearly still in my eyes its got to be the sone.



James i wasnt being agressive. Was exspressing how i felt. Sorry my spelling is not the greatest,But does that make me different, headwise to others. besides i only missed keys with my fat finger,


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## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

Eh, no worries.  I just prefer Vista because that's what I've got on my Toshiba laptop now and really like the design of it. To me, it isn't much different to XP apart from the fact that I think it looks nicer. I think going back to XP would seem like a downgrade. It's like having the opportunity to buy a Porche but getting a Ford KA instead, maybe not that extreme but you get the idea. 

Thanks for your advice James, another thing you reminded me of is how the laptop looks and keyboard placement. My parents have a Fuji laptop, and I just think it looks ugly and being a touchtyper, can't get used to the keyboard at all, it seems all wrong. I'm going to go have a look in-store to see what they've go there at some point over the weekend though.

Regarding prices, I would say they've stayed abou the same since May last year when I bought my current laptop for Â£400. You can get similar specs for similar prices at the moment. Thanks again. 

Vauxhall - good point about the warranty! I overlooked that and it's quite important.


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## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

Ah I just noticed something after reading saintly's post again. What's the difference between the processors? Like, an Intel Atom which the Sony has to say a Duo Core or whatever it's called that my current Toshiba has?


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## Superman (24 Sep 2009)

I had a pc world bought 'Advent' PC which was ok, nothing great.
I've got a Dell laptop which I've had for 4-5 years now and can do with a replacement as it's got old.
I would recommend Dell 100% as my father got a PC from them which didn't work and after sending replacement parts which didn't fix the problem, gave him a new PC with an upgrade. Whilst my father can complain for England, he was impressed with their customer support.
I would also recommend getting as high spec laptop as possible as then it'll remain up to date for a few years.


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## GreenNeedle (24 Sep 2009)

The dual/Quad is quite confusing for most but in theory if you buy a standard 3000Ghz processor then a duo 3000Ghz  'should' be about twice as fast and quad about 4x as fast.  This of course is in theory.

Personally I'm with Chilled84.  I have used Vista, and have 'downgraded' it to XP.  I wouldn't say it was like a Porsche vs a Ford Ka.  More like intending to buy a Ford Ka and thats what you get compared to buying a Porsche only to find its a less reliable Ford Ka with a Porsche kit body around it.

I have heard and read great things about Windows 7 though and intend to get it soon.  I would personally either use XP or 7.

Never been a fan of laptops.  For the money both in purchase price and upgrading you can get much more bang for your buck with a desktop and more robust and reliable in the main too.  There are 3Ghz Quad (advertised as 12 Ghz  ) Core 8mb, 1Tb setups with 1Gb Nvidea going for the Â£250-Â£300 mark (w/o OS, keyboard, mouse, screen) on ebay.

AC


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## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

Cheers Clark, I've had a Dell PC before and don't have such great stuff to say about it, but that was a few years ago now and since have heard good feedback about Dell. I've found a laptop with similar specs but Â£100 cheaper, slightly more ugly but cheaper nonetheless.

Andy, having a laptop is just easier for me when I'm on the move and stuff from a portability point of view, even just moving it around the house which is why I'm going smaller. With regards to Vista, I see what you're saying. A lot of people I know don't like it but I myself don't see anything wrong with it, never had any problems at all with it and find it more aesthetically pleasing than XP. I've also heard good things about Windows 7. Is it an easy process to change operating systems do you know?

Regarding the processors, I sort of understand that but then what's an Intel Atom Processor?

Thanks again for the advice guys - very much appreciated so keep it coming!


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## GreenNeedle (24 Sep 2009)

rawr said:
			
		

> Andy, having a laptop is just easier for me when I'm on the move and stuff from a portability point of view, even just moving it around the house which is why I'm going smaller. With regards to Vista, I see what you're saying. A lot of people I know don't like it but I myself don't see anything wrong with it, never had any problems at all with it and find it more aesthetically pleasing than XP. I've also heard good things about Windows 7. Is it an easy process to change operating systems do you know?
> 
> Regarding the processors, I sort of understand that but then what's an Intel Atom Processor?



I se why you want a laptop and understand it.  I know lots of people who buy them and put them where they used to have the desktop saying 'looks better'. lol

Vista is definately more aesthetically pleasing than my XP   I turn all the aesthetics off as they slow it down a little bit.  I have it on the basic windows 95 style with no special effects   I am after the speed rather than something that looks 'bling'.

It is very easy to just upgrade BUT it is better to do a clean install i.e. format and then load up the new OS.  That of course means having to buy the full program which at the moment is about Â£150.  Was Â£80 a month ago!!!  the upgrade is now Â£80.

With the processors there are some better than others.  The Ghz doesn't necessarily tell you how fast the processor is.  One type of processor may have the sam Ghz speed but be slower/ faster than another.  As new ones come out they give them new names.  P3, P4, Atom, Athlon etc.

AC


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## rawr (24 Sep 2009)

Haha, my parents basically use their laptop as a desktop - it's never moved since they bought it!

I couldn't cope with the Windows 95 style!  

Ah right, so if the laptop came with XP - I could just buy the Â£80  upgrade and upgrade the OS easily enough then? Sounds good to me!

So effectively a 3000Ghz Core Duo or whatever it's called is no different to a 3000Ghz Atom processor? :? The one with the Sony says 'Intel Atom N280 for portability' do you think this would be suitable for what I'm after? 

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... ll&tm=null

Thanks again Andy, I appreciate the helpfulness from someone who knows their stuff!


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## bugs (24 Sep 2009)

Another vote for XP (over Vista). I have 4gb RAM and 2.2Ghz processor running Vista and 512MB 1.4Ghz machine running XP. The latter is far more responsive (and less susceptible to random oddities and BSOD).


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## GreenNeedle (25 Sep 2009)

rawr said:
			
		

> So effectively a 3000Ghz Core Duo or whatever it's called is no different to a 3000Ghz Atom processor? :? The one with the Sony says 'Intel Atom N280 for portability' do you think this would be suitable for what I'm after?



Nope.  Think more of the Duo/Quad being a measurement and Atom being a model name.  A 3000Ghz Duo is in theory 6000Ghz.

The atom is just the name of Intel's smallest chip so there may be different versions of it.

With an upgrade all you do is put the disk in and it should run you through the process.  Personally I would try and find a retail version of the full upgrade and clean install it.

AC


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## Mortis (26 Sep 2009)

Hi, just thought I would explain a few things in general since you seem a bit confused about the prcessors and all. 
The Atom processor is a low cost lw power processor mainly designed for netbooks where processing power is not that important. The core 2 duo however is full fledged processor so to speak and is good for just about everything anyone would do on a computer (obviously varies depending on the model). A dual core 3 Ghz processor is not the same as a 6 Ghz processor. Put simply, a dual or quad core processor is better at multitasking. For example if you are running two programs then each would be able to make use of 3 ghz of computing power. This isnt exactly efficient because it depends on available RAM, ahrd disk speed, etc. 

Dont buy the Sony Vaio, it is just like a premium "netbook". If you do want a netbook then I would suggest The Samsung NC10 or NC20.
If you do not want the extra portability then I would suggest a normal 15.4" laptop as you usually get the best deal on this size. Tell us what you need it for and what your budget is. It would also be helpful yo mentioned any special requirements like screen size, Hard disk space required, DVD or Blu Ray drive, etc. Do this and I will try and find something that suits you.

Now as for XP vs Vista, both have their pros and cons. I have been using Vista for 1.5 years now and after the first month of "XP is better" I got used to it and quite like it.
I would also suggest buying a Vista computer _but make sure it allows you to upgrade to Windows 7_.
I have been fiddling with Win 7 for the past 2-3 months and it is really great. I would highly recommend it. If you really need the laptop now then I would suggest buying a Vista one with the Win 7 upgrade option or if you can wait for a month then get a new laptop that comes with Win 7 installed since it releases in October sometime.


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## aaronnorth (26 Sep 2009)

i like vista, i agree with Mortis, in the first few months i didnt like it, but it soon changed


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## rawr (26 Sep 2009)

Hi Mortis, thanks for clearing that up.

Since my last post I realised that the Sony was slightly overpriced for what it is. From looking at other netbooks, I've seen that literally all of them come with 1gb memory, Atom processor, 160gb hard drive, webcam, Windows XP and 10.1" screen - just vary in price and look etc. 

I think those specifications are okay for what I use my laptop for. I like the idea of having a netbook because of it's small size. The hard drive is big enough (more than the 120gb I have now) and memory could be better, but I think it will be able to cope with what I do (surf the internet, listen to music on iTunes which will be the bulk, MSN, ocassionally do some word processing or watch a DVD). I don't necessarily need a DVD drive or whatever it's called because none of them come with one and an external one would surffice. The webcam is a nice extra which always comes in handy and it needs to look good and be reasonably priced for what it is! If it has Vista then that's a major plus side for me too, I really don't like the idea of going back to XP.

I've looked into this model that Toshiba actually sell with Vista installed (on their own website):  http://www.comet.co.uk/shopcomet/produc ... ification#

And this Dell that seems to do what all of the others do but be a bit cheaper: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/store/ ... sku=901259

I'll look into the Samsungs you sugested too.

Cheers  let me know what you think or if you have any other advice, like I said it really is appreciated!


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## Superman (26 Sep 2009)

Have you compared the Dell at PC World with direct from Dell UK (http://www.dell.co.uk/home/laptops?~ck=mn).
Usually they have some better offers


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## BINKSY1973 (26 Sep 2009)

Maybe have a look at UK Laptops too, they sell refurbished dell laptops.

Here is a description of what they class as refurbished.

What is Refurbished
When you purchase a "Refurbished" laptop this does not generally mean it is second-hand, old or repaired. 

Where do we get our Laptops from?

The majority of Dell products are sold by mail order, of which some items are returned. The reason for returns can be varied - maybe the packaging gets damaged during transit, or the customer changes his mind. Any items returned to Dell are not resold as new, but get supplied to companies indirectly such as ourselves, or sold in the Dell Factory Outlet.

Why do Dell sell on these Laptops?

The Dell Factory Outlet will generally only sell items that have been returned unopened, or products damaged during their own production process. It is not cost effective for them to test and inspect every returned item, so many of these get sold onto resellers such as UK Laptops. 

What is the Refurbishment Process?

Every laptop undergoes a thorough inspection that covers both functional and cosmetic checks. Hardware is tested to make sure CPU, memory, graphics and hard drive are functioning and then subjected to a 48 hour test. Any cosmetic damage is recorded and corrected where possible. When our laptops are listed for sale, any issues are clearly stated such as cosmetic scratches and scuffs or damaged casings. Finally, the software is reset to a factory supplied state, and the item repackaged ready for sale.

Please Note:

The specification that we list may differ from the original Dell specification, because this machine is refurbished.



Why buy a refurbished laptop?
Buying a refurbished laptop will save you a lot of money when compared to new. Some of our laptops sell for over 60% less than an equivalent new Dell.

Many of our laptops are current models, so it is easy to compare like for like prices.





What is in the box
Most laptops will come in an original Dell box and all will include a new Dell power supply. 

You can download manuals free of charge from the Dell website. 


Here a link to the 10 inch sreen laptops they have at the moment.

http://www.uklaptops.co.uk/shop/Dell_Inspiron_Mini_10_Netbooks_Laptop_uk.html

Cheers Gordon.


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## Mortis (26 Sep 2009)

Hey rawr. Im glad I could help you understand some of the technical thingies. I forgot to add that nowadays the reason processors havent kept increasing in Ghz is because now they make them more efficient at the same speed i.e. a 2 Ghz Pentium 3 would be slower than a 2 Ghz Pentium 4 and so on. It doesnt just depend on the processor efficiency because the supporting hardware like RAM and the motherboard, etc have also become faster. That said, even though the Atom is a new chip, a 1.6 Ghz Atom is not as fast a previous gen Core2Duo at 1.6 Ghz from 2 years ago. It is mainly designed for low power and low cost computers like netbooks.

That said a netbook is still decent for stuff like browsing the net, music, etc. If you are happy with the small screen and portability then go for it. As you mentioned, most of them have more or less the same specs and you can always get an external drive. Upgrading the RAM to 2 GB is also really easy.

The reason I recommended the Samsung is because they have the best battery life among all the netbooks. 5-6 hrs vs 3 hrs in most others. If you are planning on buying a netbook the get this one.

If you can hold off then wait until Win 7 releases. It is much better and also optimised to work with netbooks and has the same or better performance on a netbook as XP. Vista on a netbook wil be slow as hell and just piss you off to no end.

Also keep in mind that since netbooks have become "cool", their prices have increased in general. Unless you absolutely need your laptop to be tiny, then I would suggest getting a normal sized, better equipped notebook for the same price.

If this is going to be your primary computer then dont buy a netbook. The screen size and small keyboard are not good for more than an hour or two of use. The netbook a mainly a secondary system to use on the go for a bit of light computing.


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## rawr (26 Sep 2009)

Thanks Clark and Binky for the info, I'll check them out!

Mortis, many thanks again for your helpful advice. I understand what you're saying about windows 7, and I don't necessarily need to get a new laptop too soon but am reluctant to hold off just to wait for Windows 7. After all, Vista is newer than XP and all of the netbooks are still using XP so I doubt they will change to 7 immediately. Although I've heard good things about it, I haven't used it myself either so dont' know how I feel about it.

I understand what you're saying about the issue of 'primary computer' etc. That's the only thing I'm worried about - it getting annoying or maybe not being able to cope with everything etc. Like I said, I won't be getting it until a few weeks time so I'll look into other options.

Thanks again guys


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## Mortis (27 Sep 2009)

Hi, Win 7 releases on the 22nd of October. There shouldnt be a problem getting netbooks with Win 7 then because Microsoft did have netbooks and their increasing popularity in mind when designing the new windows mainly because current netbooks cannot run Vista and XP is the only windows that runs on a netbook and Microsoft has been trying to 'kill' XP for a while now by stopping support, etc since the past couple of years but havent managed to get rid of it completely cos of netbooks. Thats why they made Win 7 so netbook friendly.

If you buy a new netbook, your choices are XP and Win 7 only. Just pretend that Vista doesnt exist   
If you decide to buy a normal notebook then you could get Vista but try and get Win 7 it is just a realy good OS. Ive been using the Win 7 beta on my little ION nettop and its great so far.


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## rawr (27 Sep 2009)

Thanks once again Mortis, much appreciated - you definatly are the computer whiz!  I'm going to wait a while anyway, so see what's going on at the time of purchase but chances are I'll get Windows 7. 

I went to PC World after work today and had a look at the netbooks. I don't know what I was expecting but they are so small! I guess I'll get used to it because my now 17" laptop seemed massive compared to the 15" I had before, so same principle here. I was really impressed with them though, same as a normal laptop as far as I could tell except a scaled down version!


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## TDI-line (27 Sep 2009)

Hi Thomas,

maybe worth doing a google search for Dell discount codes for laptops, just check expiry dates though. I used one  when i bought a new Dell pc, and saved around 10-15%, just entered the code at the checkout and Hey presto.


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## rawr (27 Sep 2009)

Wow, never thought of that! Cheers Dan


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## rawr (28 Sep 2009)

I've decided this is the laptop I'm gonna get: http://www.euro.dell.com/uk/en/home/Lap ... &cs=ukdhs1

I'm gonna wait until next month's pay day though, and then maybe get Windows 7 on it too!


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## JamesC (29 Sep 2009)

Please don't buy a Dell laptop.

They have a poorly designed power adapter design that has caused many people no end of trouble. Their support and service is appauling and fob you off with new power adapters that they know aren't going to last long and if you are out of warranty then you are screwed as the only real fix is a new main board. Even then these have failed within a short space of time. It is down to pot luck though with many people never having a problem but far far too many do get this particular problem. I would never buy a laptop from Dell.

For the techies here's a bit of info on it - http://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/content/dell-ac-power-adapter-id-chip-died

This only applies to laptops. Desktop PC's are fine.

James


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## rawr (29 Sep 2009)

Really? I looked at a few websites and spoke to a few people I know with Dell laptops and got quite good feedback. 

LIke I said, we used to have a Dell PC that was absoloute crap but since then I thought they seemed to have cleaned up their act. 

Thanks for letting me know anyway James, I'll keep looking around for other options anyway.


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## JamesC (29 Sep 2009)

It's just my opinion though. I've worked with loads of laptops for years and you get a feel for them. Even the best ones have faults like HP's bending ones that freeze up due to poorly designed main boards. There will always be 'lemons' and you take your chances. What you don't want is a company that fobs you off until a warranty runs out so they don't have to fix it. But if you don't have problems then Dells work great.

James


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## rawr (29 Sep 2009)

No, cheers James I value your opinion and everyone elses! I'd rather people told me their experiences to help me choose the best option, especially when they're as experienced as you. I understand about what you're saying about 'lemons' but too many lemons and it's too sour.   I'll keep looking anyway, thanks again.


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## Mortis (29 Sep 2009)

Hi just a suggestion, you could register on the notebookreview.com forums and post your requirements in the 'which laptop to buy' section. It is the biggest notebook website/forum on the net and there are lots of helpful people. They should help you get what you're looking for.


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## JamesC (29 Sep 2009)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Hi just a suggestion, you could register on the notebookreview.com forums and post your requirements in the 'which laptop to buy' section. It is the biggest notebook website/forum on the net and there are lots of helpful people. They should help you get what you're looking for.


That's a great idea. I've posted on there in the past and it's full of some very knowledgeable people.

James


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## LondonDragon (29 Sep 2009)

At my company we used to buy Toshibas and I can only say great things about them, but they can be a bit pricier so we moved to something else, we tried HP for a while and they were pants, we have now been using Dells for about 3 years and they are great and also we get good support from Dell. I have a little D420 with a 12" screen and I love it, great laptop that has never given me any problems, I run 5 OSs on it Windows XP standard, Windows XP Enterprise, Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Ubuntu Linux, all selectable at startup and it runs all with great speed, Windows 7 being my favourite.

You should have a look at ebuyer, they always have great deals on which you can't usually beat anywhere else, I buy all my stuff from them and always get good service.

http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sto ... ice=499.99

Good luck with your choice


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## JamesC (29 Sep 2009)

Toshibas are my choice at the moment and are what I buy at work for everyone. I used to buy HP but am not so happy with them anymore. Gone downhill since the good old Compaq days.

James


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## rawr (29 Sep 2009)

Cheers guys, I have to say I'm also very impressed with the Toshiba laptop that I currently have. It's still going strong (well, apart from a great big crack across the screen that you can't even notice, and dirt everywhere   ) after a year and a half. Had a few minor problems when first got it but that was due to me pissing around with it. It's a great laptop.


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## Mortis (30 Sep 2009)

ASUS notebooks are also pretty decent.


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## rawr (15 Oct 2009)

I posted on that forum, but not much luck...

I'm thinking of maybe getting a slightly larger laptop. They're not as small, lightweight or flash as the smaller ones but more value for money. Just one more question:

What's the difference between Celeron and Pendium processors? I've always had the impression Pentiums are better?

Cheers all


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## Mortis (15 Oct 2009)

Celerons are the budget processors and I dont think theyve had an update in quite a while. Try to get a Core2Duo


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## bugs (16 Oct 2009)

We've been using IBM Thinkpad's at work for years (now Leonovo). They seem quite bomb proof.


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