# Are you an Iwagumi fan?



## George Farmer (23 Mar 2009)

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... blogid=263


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## Joecoral (23 Mar 2009)

Yes


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## Mark Evans (23 Mar 2009)

me too  8)


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## Aeropars (23 Mar 2009)

Kind of... i dont like 3 rock ones but complex ones have a more interesting appeal for me.


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## samc (23 Mar 2009)

for sure


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## George Farmer (23 Mar 2009)

Thanks guys.  Please feel free to comment on the blog too.

Thanks to Mark and John who have already.

Please comment of you don't like Iwagumi too, like Bob Mehen.


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## John Starkey (23 Mar 2009)

Hi george,

i like this style,and i will set one up one day.

regards John.


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## Simon D (23 Mar 2009)

Yes I'm a big fan, post submitted to PFK: 

"I like them, but not if it's your only display tank. 

I beleive that, to the untrained eye, they look a bit boring and a non-aquascaper or non-fishkeeper would not appreciate the work involved in acheiving the end result. 

I personally have no objections and would like to have a nano iwagumi plus another, bigger, busier display tank."


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## Dan Crawford (24 Mar 2009)

I love the bones of a good iwagumi! They _can_ present more of a challenge than any other kind of aquascaping.


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## gratts (24 Mar 2009)

I'm not too keen on them myself. They're nice to look at for a short period, but if it was my tank I'd want something with more nooks and crannies and a little busier.
Is there any tank you consider to be the definitive epitome of an Iwagumi, George?


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## Steve Smith (24 Mar 2009)

I love the 'gumi style, and to a degree I like the theory behind stone placement and getting that balance.  It's always fun to play with rocks 

My current scape is sort of an iwagumi, but it was never meant to be...


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## beeky (24 Mar 2009)

I agree with gratts.

They're nice to look at, like a good picture. But I'd need more interest in it to keep it long term. Maybe that's why people only have them for a few months?


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## George Farmer (24 Mar 2009)

beeky said:
			
		

> I agree with gratts.
> 
> They're nice to look at, like a good picture. But I'd need more interest in it to keep it long term. Maybe that's why people only have them for a few months?



It's a good point.  I'm already planning my next layout.  Ironically, possibly another Iwagumi....


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## Tony Swinney (24 Mar 2009)

Yep, I'm liking the iwagumi style, though I can see me getting bored with looking at one too.  To me the enjoyment would come from getting the hardscape right, so I'd probably redo it every few months.


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## andy (24 Mar 2009)

No.   Too arty-farty and unnatural for me.  Give me jungle any day !!!


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## altaaffe (24 Mar 2009)

Have to say, I've always liked them but as long as the tank looks good, Idon't mind whether I'm looking at Iwagumi, Jungle, Dutch or whatever.

Incidentally, liked the pic you posted of your glassware George, nice little demo of a vortex and not a straight through flow as suggested in another blog.


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## Fred Dulley (24 Mar 2009)

Not really. I'd get bored of it sooner or later.
A bit more natural for me, like "Without Boundaries" by Jason Balibans.


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## StevenA (25 Mar 2009)

I must admit a while ago I did not like Iwagumi's, but since being back into the hobby big time, I now appreciate a good setup in whatever form it takes, cos I understand more and more the effort that's been put into it


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## Dave Spencer (25 Mar 2009)

I`ll post on here, rather than PFK, so Jeremy can`t delete it! 8) 

For me, the Iwagumi is the most difficult scape to master, as there is nowhere for anything out of place to hide. The hardscape defines the look, rather than supplying the foundations for the final look, as in a Nature Aquarium.

As for the â€œjungleâ€ lookâ€¦.is this an aquascape? :?  Supply a tank, water lights, substrate and ferts, then buy a mix of plants off eBay and stick them in the tank and watch them become overgrown. 

Reading between the lines, are â€œjunglesâ€ for those that can`t aquascape (no offence  ), or is it a genuine type of scape? I`m not convinced.

Dave.

EDIT: Forgot to say...the Iwagumi is King in my humble opinion.


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## GreenNeedle (25 Mar 2009)

I'm not a huge fan of Iwagumi style but there are the odd ones that I like.  They do have to be really well done to impress me though 

I think Junglescape is misunderstood.  If they just chuck plants in and let it grow then it is jungle but not scaped so not junglescape.

I tend to think Junglescapes are more a case of scapes that look like they 'belong' under water and are not as 'tampered' with r.e. pruning etc as most scapes are 

I agree r.e. Jeremy.  Seems he finished the 'blog' with 'I am proved right' and then no other posts allowed.  Ducked out of the argument before he took to many blows me thinks 

AC

AC


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## beeky (26 Mar 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> As for the â€œjungleâ€ lookâ€¦.is this an aquascape? :?  Supply a tank, water lights, substrate and ferts, then buy a mix of plants off eBay and stick them in the tank and watch them become overgrown.
> 
> Reading between the lines, are â€œjunglesâ€ for those that can`t aquascape (no offence  ), or is it a genuine type of scape? I`m not convinced.



Blimey, you're not shy of controversy are you?!   

You're wrong anyway. Is an Iwagumi a proper scape? Supply a (more expensive) optiwhite tank, (more expensive) glassware, luminaire, Aquasoil Amazonia, stick 3 stones in at different angles, buy a few pots of HC for the front and a few pots of hairgrass for the back, chuck some embers in and your done, dosing your ADA Jaunty Lights, or whatever they're called, every day. After 3 months chuck it away and do it all again with some other stones.

Good jungle scapes are infinitely harder due to their longevity and therefore require more maintenance and dedication.

Your turn!


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## JamesC (26 Mar 2009)

I like originality best regardless of what type of scape it is. Iwagumi's are ok but there is only so much you can do with 3 stones. Most are pretty boring IMHO but every now and again a really good one comes along with a slight twist on the theme.

Looking at the competitions most of the scapes that do really well are those that have new ideas and not just a copy of something else that has gone before. Peter Kirwan's mountain scape is a brilliant example of originality and one of the reasons it has done so well. This is also a good reason for keeping scapes secret until the competition.

Out of all the different types of scapes, Dutch style is by far the best  . Full of colour and texture. Most people seem to like the trendy nature scapes these days, which look pretty but often don't have much of a lifespan and need redoing every so often.

James


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2009)

JamesC said:
			
		

> Peter Kirwan's mountain scape is a brilliant example of originality and one of the reasons it has done so well. This is also a good reason for keeping scapes secret until the competition.



zigs is a copy i believe. it was done before.


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> JamesC said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wasn't it a re-work of his own tank from a previous year?  Don't quote me on that!


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2009)

i've seen a similar tank in an old aqua journal. someone at the green machine pointed out the it was done before pete attempted it


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## a1Matt (26 Mar 2009)

Yep, Pete did do Mountainscape v1 and v2.  I wonder if Pete saw the original one first or 'discovered' his v1 independantly?

Personally I love all the styles, I appreciated tanks long before I knew there were even terms for the different styles, let alone new what the terms were.  As has been said already it is more about how well you do it than the style it is in.  

I'm loving the banter between Dave and Beeky


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## Garuf (26 Mar 2009)

Yeah, mountain scapes are common, the thank was even called mountain scape v2 it was a rework in a larger tank. 
The first iwagumi I saw was a mountain scape infact a good 2 years ago, not to take it away from Zig, his is impeccably well executed. Look how many mountain scapes there were in the comp the same year as zigs...


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## a1Matt (26 Mar 2009)

The thing with Petes is it actually looks like a mountain to me (as oppossed to a tank in the style of a mountain if you see what I mean).  Sorry for the OT.


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## Dave Spencer (26 Mar 2009)

beeky said:
			
		

> Blimey, you're not shy of controversy are you?!



You`ve got my number Graham!  



			
				beeky said:
			
		

> You're wrong anyway. Is an Iwagumi a proper scape? Supply a (more expensive) optiwhite tank, (more expensive) glassware, luminaire, Aquasoil Amazonia, stick 3 stones in at different angles, buy a few pots of HC for the front and a few pots of hairgrass for the back, chuck some embers in and your done, dosing your ADA Jaunty Lights, or whatever they're called, every day. After 3 months chuck it away and do it all again with some other stones.



Ah!! Touchee!



			
				beeky said:
			
		

> ...dosing your ADA Jaunty Lights...



   



			
				beeky said:
			
		

> Good jungle scapes are infinitely harder due to their longevity and therefore require more maintenance and dedication.



I have done both and safely say that an Iwagumi is tougher to scape. Jungles just need the ability to grow plants. You don`t even need a foreground, do you?

As for originality, I think it is difficult to achieve in any genre of aquascaping. For those of you with the IAPLC 2004 book, P.13 could well have been a significant influence in Zig`s mountain scape.

Dave.


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## JamesC (26 Mar 2009)

Wish I'd never mentioned it now.

Is it this one? - http://www.adaeuro.com/zoom.asp?foto=images/contenuti/Fgrande/contest05.jpg&descr=

James


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2009)

thats the one. it's an amano one i think


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2009)

Lovely looking scape!

Maybe this thread is worth turning into a poll...


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## beeky (26 Mar 2009)

It all depends on the definition of jungle I suppose. Is a jungle carefully maintained to give the appearance of a natural, but beautiful underwater scene, or is it a haphazard collection of swords and vallis from the LFS, left to go unruly.

I like lots of plants in a tank, enough to the give the fish somewhere to hide but still allow them to have a good swim. That way it keeps the interest as you can't see everything in one go. Anyone who watches gardening programmes will know what I mean; they're always banging on about "journey" and planting/placing things to hide what's going on to intice you to go exploring. That's why "path" scapes work so well. They lead the eye down and round the tank, giving a "journey".

Strewth, that's the most posting I've done for ages......


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## JamesC (26 Mar 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> thats the one. it's an amano one i think


It's by someone called Hironori Handa. Got 5th place on IAPLC 2004.

I'd never seen it before.

James


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## JohnC (20 Apr 2009)

Hi,

i'm a fan of a good iwagumi but i'm also a huge fan of the base concepts of japanese and zen art and living that go into their creation. 

Wabi Sabi all the way baby.

When i did my initial reading on Iwagumi there was alot of chat about how the iwagumi tanks were more difficult to maintain then "standard" planted tanks due to things like the lack of fast growning stems to control algae etc.

Personally i've not found this to be the case and i've not seen too many Iwagumi journals on here or other forums dominated by people's algae disasters. Part of this is probably due to fact that "scapers" who get into Iwagumi tend to be on the more experienced side of things and know about EI, algae control, plant deficiencies.

I'd agree with the previous post on jungle tanks, id say they were harder to keep everything growing well and maintain, especially with the variety of different species and their needs in the same water (i didnt enjoy stems in my big tank at all). 

I'd say the initial effort and thinking that goes into the hardscape arrangement of Iwagumi is obviously much harder then jungle as franky this is the majority of the tank in many repects. But at the same time is huge part of the joy of Iwagumi, get it right and you have something magical that will be a cornerstone of any room it sits in.

Best Regards,

John

p.s I noticed the glassware reference by George in the blog on PF and chuckled.


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## George Farmer (20 Apr 2009)

Wow!  I forgot about this thread.

I'm a fan of any 'scape that's pleasing to my eye.  That can be an overgrown jungle, a strict Dutch layout, or a minimalist Iwagumi - and anything in-between.

Even if a 'scape has be 'done' before, I can still appreciate it.  Innovations are great, but I think there's a case for a style's evolution too.

I think Peter's Mountainscape V2 broke new boundaries with the use of the rocky foreground.  Amano agrees too and thought it should have won both the 2008 IAPLC and 2008 AGA.  Copies generally don't receive such high accolade... 

I'm looking forward to unveiling my latest Iwagumi 'scape.  Now _that_ is a 'copy'...


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## Dave Spencer (22 Apr 2009)

What do you think to the outcome of the blog, George? It seems iwagumis are cruel and unhealthy for fish.  

Dave.


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## Garuf (22 Apr 2009)

I think to suggest it's cruel and unhealthy is something of a misnomer, I have bred fish in what many would describe as a iwagumi, I never had any issues with fish scattering for cover either and this is with the tank committing the cardinal sin of being next to a door. I'd also suggest they provided you pick river fish (danio's etc) that it's more natural and healthy in terms of water condition and fish conditioning than a tank with low filtration, low flow, a cement castle, low levels of oxygen and high levels of toxins.


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## GreenNeedle (22 Apr 2009)

I think As Dave says in the blog.  There is no problem with fish in an Iwagumi as long as they are the right fish for the setup.

For the others to say that they are bad for fish is like comparing them to the ebay tanks with 6inch per gallon and a teeny filter 

Saying that I do agree with many of the other comments.  I much prefer a tank to look like an underwater scene than a landscape.  I would say however that compare to your standard 'non Iwagumi' nature style there are many Iwagumis that do look like they could be underwater or landscape.  I gues on those the viewer can decide which or indeed if they could be both.

AC


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## Dave Spencer (23 Apr 2009)

I agree that an an aquascape should actually look as if it is underwater, too. There are some stunning landscapes done underwater, such as Felipe Oliveira`s trees, but they just don`t quite ring true to me. 

None of my tanks have really mimicked an underwater scene; I guess a biotype is what is needed for this. Landscapes and terrestrial plants and trees influence me, but I don`t copy them directly in to an underwater scape, although my struggling 60cm is the closest I have come to having a scape that looks positively terrestrial.

Dave.


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## George Farmer (23 Apr 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> What do you think to the outcome of the blog, George? It seems iwagumis are cruel and unhealthy for fish.
> 
> Dave.


I'm not surprised by the comments.  

It's true that _some _fish used in Iwagumis would prefer to be amongst more shelter, surface cover and dense planting.  Cruel and unhealthy though?  I don't think so, personally.

Most fish adapt well, IME.


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