# Ooooh My First Dedicated Shrimp Nano.



## RolyMo (28 Aug 2013)

When I think back a year ago when I first purchased my first ever tank, a Juwel Rio 180, the assistant in the fish shop said about shrimp and that he bet (cheekily) that I would get into it as it was the new thing. At the time, I thought he was mad and I nodded with a smile and moved back to the conversation of getting the basics for the tank.

Just over 1 year and a lot of learning on the planted fish tank side and keeping some easy shrimp I venture into a new tank dedicated to shrimp.

One of the reasons is that my shrimp in my fish tank tend to hide a lot, which does add to the mystic, but also frustrates me because both I and my two girls want to see more of these funny little creatures.

My aim like thousands of others is to:-

Keep some of the more sensitive fashionable shrimp
Hopefully manage to breed those same shrimp
Understand more about the breeding, genetics and the various parameters that cause certain traits.
Successfully keep and expand some of the more rarer breeds
I see it is a challenge as well as learning curve and this time I am hoping to slow down the excitement as to not make too many expensive mistakes. I also see it as a challenge that it is a way smaller tank than the 180l (just over 20l) and so things can go wrong and go wrong rapidly. I have no buffer.

I hope to take what I have learnt over the year and from the many very helpful and kind members on this forum and be successful.

Scene setting over. What have I got so far

1 x Do!Aqua 36 x 22 x 26cm (I did not realise it was a lower class ADA tank until after I bought it)
1 x Dennearle Corner Nano filter
1 x Fluval 11w clip on light
1 x Fluval heater
1 x Huge bag of ADA Amazonia 
1 x A Small piece of Redmoor wood.
1 x Moss ball
Some transplanted Elocharis sp "Mini"
1 x Java fern narrow
1 x Tropica 1-2 Christmas moss
Using tap water during the cycling period and then will switch to RO before introducing any shrimp..
EI dosing
Have yet to work out the lighting period
I have CO2 injection on standby, still fathoming out if I need this one. Even for just the initial cycling period.

Last night I poured in the substrate and this time ramped it up to the back and also made a hill on the left hand side.

Damped the substrate, and then planted some of the transplanted Elocharis sp mini.
Laid down a freezer bag and then filled up the tank. 

In the absence of the dennearle cartridge at the LFS I purchase a large sheet of wool and cut to size and put into the corner filter. Positioned this on the RHS.

Added a glass orb of magic with some indicator fluid. Whooop.

Soaked my redmoor overnight and tied some Christmas moss to it this morning and left it floating in the tank, hoping it might sink some time soon.

So the tank has been initiated.

Must admit lots of detritus is floating around, hopefully might get filtered out over the next day or so. still a little murky in there. 

Annoyingly the filter was missing a spraybar (was second-hand) so trying to work out how much of a problem that is going to be.

Will also debate with myself whether to take some filter material (which bit I dont know) from my internal Juwel filter and add to the wool in the nano filter for a week and see if that helps cycle.

Need to buy a TDS meter and the appropriote shrimp minierals. But first its all about getting the plants growing with minimal light and CO2 (ideally) leaving lots of viewing areas of shrimp against the black ADA substrate. And of course getting the water column optimal.

Phew. Back to work.
Roly


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## Lindy (28 Aug 2013)

Look forward to some pics.


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## RolyMo (28 Aug 2013)

Hi Lindy
Its a bit ADA Amazonia murky and plant sparse at the moment.
I am also feeling guilty that I have not put many plants in there for setup (conflict of "plants = Need for CO2", but need plants to cycle tank). My semi local fish shop gets its Tropica deliver on Thursdays so I might dash down there on Friday unless there is a good shop in Bristol tomorrow where I appear to be heading to.
Will post photos ASAP.
Roly


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## Lindy (28 Aug 2013)

You need to change the mantra to 'low light = no need for pressurised co2' I've taken the co2 off my 54l nook and have only had a tiny bit of bba. Have raised the light a bit and removed bba. I have a tmc 400 tile over the other shrimp tank but I'm regretting getting it as I'm having to raise it so high. At the mo its 30cm above tank and I'm waiting for some of that frosted backing vinyl to put on the lid to block out more. I had an 11watt fluval light on the tank first and it was fine 

You are less likely to get algae if you start out with a high plant mass. BUY SOME PLANTS!


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## RolyMo (28 Aug 2013)

Point taken. 
I will haul ass down to LFS to get some on Friday. 

Meanwhile help me out. I am at a loss as to what to put in that will survive no CO2, is a good  starting plant but also creates a playground for shrimp that allows me to seen them. 

Plant suggestions and position?





Yes that is wood floating with me hoping it might sink sometime soon. 
R


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## Lindy (29 Aug 2013)

In my tanks I have hydrocotyle sp 'japan', Hygrophilia pinnatifida is beautiful and is growing well, Round pelia ,coral pelia, fissidens fontanus. Don't get caught up with 'I've got to see them' because they will come out! I'd leave a clearing at the front where you can feed them.
If it was my tank I'd tie the wood to a bit of roof slate and bury it in the mound  facing towards the right/front corner, but that's me lol, it's your tank!
I also have mini twisted vallis and saggitaria platyphila(sp?) no co2


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Aug 2013)

Have a look at hydropiper elantine 12grow of you want a low tech carpet..? Nearly covered mine now.  Microsorum narrow or needle is always a good solid bet low tech to.


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## RolyMo (30 Aug 2013)

Took advice and nipped down to the LFS and got some more plants and some slate to weigh the wood down. 

Water had gone murky and wood was covered in an opaque white slime. Pulled it out scrubbed with sponge and poured boiling water on it. Did a 80% water change. Planted new plants. 
Oh boy how difficult is it to plant in Amazonia without power sand. Jeez. 

Oh let's see what happens now.


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## Spartacus (30 Aug 2013)

Looks good Roly 

About time you and me both got our tanks set up lol

Redmoor leaches a harmful white mould/tannis as it soaks its fine and nowt to worry about.

I hope the filter wool on the filter works out - We may try that for our two filters instead of Amazon.de 

Best of luck!

Murray


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## RolyMo (30 Aug 2013)

I am not sure what is in the Dennearle cartridges. But from a picture it only looks like wool. It does not appear to have other sponges for removal or toxins or bacteria to live on which I am not sure about. The LFS said they run those filters with just cut up wool. So I will see what happens.
Cheers Murray.
R


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## dw1305 (30 Aug 2013)

Hi all,
I'm not a great fan of filter wool, could you cut a sheet of sponge to the right size?

cheers Darrel


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## RolyMo (30 Aug 2013)

Good idea. Do they sell sheets of sponge?
The filter wool sheet was for pond systems and only £3.50. Can get lots of wool bits out of one sheet. 
Thanks
R


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## Lindy (30 Aug 2013)

On ebay you can buy sheets of aquarium filter foam in a multitude of different grades. I haven't bought brand name sponges for a long time now, just cut what I need.


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## RolyMo (30 Aug 2013)

Cheers Lindy
Another thing to look out for. 
R


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## RolyMo (31 Aug 2013)

Did my weekly maintenance on the main tank, took the filters out of the bio flow internal filter and took out the bottom filter and cut a quarter section from it. 

I then added that piece to the dennearle nano corner filter wool and plopped back into my nano shrimp tank. 

Water had gone a little murky white again, not sure if that is the wood or an algae bloom from a new tank syndrome. Hopefully the bacteria from the transplanted sponge might help. 

R


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## MirandaB (31 Aug 2013)

There should be a triangular section of sponge in the bottom of the Dennerle filter Rolymo


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## RolyMo (2 Sep 2013)

Thanks MirandaB. I might have to invest in a real Dennerle filter just to see what it consists of.
By way of other updates, I have pulled out the small bit of Redmoor as for the second time it appears to have leached this white transluent jelly like slime that is coating the wood and also making the water slightly cloudy.
So out it came this morning and was dunked into boiling water and I will have it submerged for a week or 2 to see if that stops it.
I did a large water change to get rid of the murkiness. 

Thank tank now has a piece a slat with the java ferm tied onto it, and all the other plants that were planted on Friday. NO CO2. I am resisting. 
Pink Ramshorn snail I put in last week appears to still be alive and sliding around the tank!!


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## sa80mark (2 Sep 2013)

Hi roly heres a picture of the foam and a picture of where it goes in the standard filter

Mark


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## RolyMo (2 Sep 2013)

Ahhhhh
Ok thank you so much Mark. 
I am no expert in coloured filter sponges, however the black sponge in my Juwel filter is an active Carbon one. Do you know if that what is an active carbon one too?

I was thinking about creating a mini purigen section too using the ladies tights substitute for the seachem bag. 
Cheers
R


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## sa80mark (2 Sep 2013)

No its just plain coarse sponge, purigen section could work well, if your just stocking shrimp id be tempted to get rid of the floss and just use 2 sponge triangles one at the top and one at the bottom then purigen in the middle,this way you could wash / clean one sponge one week and then vice versa thos way youve got no worries about bacteria 

Mark


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## Spartacus (2 Sep 2013)

Roly the black foam seems to be just standard filter foam from memory.

Just slots into the bottom would be easy to cut a new one from another source and put it in.

If you need measurements just give me a shout


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## RolyMo (2 Sep 2013)

Mark that is a brilliant idea. I like the alternating sponge replacement idea thus keeping the bacteria colonies going.

Spartacus - Measurements would be most helpful if you feel inclined to do so. Thank you.

Cheers Gents
R


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## Spartacus (2 Sep 2013)

Ok Rolu if you can wait until after 6pm I will Los them here. 

Pesky Work


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## RolyMo (2 Sep 2013)

lol.
Love this forum and responsiveness. Yeah no worries. I too have a day job. I wont go and get the sponge yet. 
Thank you kindly.


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Sep 2013)

Roly, While I wouldn't advise spending money on new gear when you can make what you have work... On this occasion I will.
I cant recommend the Eheim liberties enough for shrimp tanks. Due to the waterfall nature of the returning water it creates high O2 levels which is key for inverts. 
The Eheim sponges are great as you can easily pull one out ever other week to rinse and you have the option of having no top on it to fill with emersed plants if you like.
As they are now discontinued, zoo plus is doing  them at 20% off. I just bought the biggest one for £20 odd quid to go in shed before they are gone. I'd recommend doing the same as the flow is adjustable and then it is ready for the next nano, not matter the size. 
It's a small investment that will pay itself back over and over


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## RolyMo (2 Sep 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Roly, While I wouldn't advise spending money on new gear when you can make what you have work... On this occasion I will.
> I cant recommend the Eheim liberties enough for shrimp tanks. Due to the waterfall nature of the returning water it creates high O2 levels which is key for inverts.
> The Eheim sponges are great as you can easily pull one out ever other week to rinse and you have the option of having no top on it to fill with emersed plants if you like.
> As they are now discontinued, zoo plus is doing them at 20% off. I just bought the biggest one for £20 odd quid to go in shed before they are gone. I'd recommend doing the same as the flow is adjustable and then it is ready for the next nano, not matter the size.
> It's a small investment that will pay itself back over and over


 
LOL
Thanks Iain. Like the "I don't normally but I will" comment. 
Your advice as ever is greatly appreciated. That is an interesting design. Not one I have seen in my limited time fishkeeping etc.  O2 is something that I am keen to nail in my nano. 
I shall have a look.
Cheers
Roly


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## dw1305 (2 Sep 2013)

Hi all,


Iain Sutherland said:


> I cant recommend the Eheim liberties enough for shrimp tanks. Due to the waterfall nature of the returning water it creates high O2 levels which is key for inverts.


I like these as well.

cheers Darrel


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## Spartacus (3 Sep 2013)

Roly,

Apologies for the delay - Yesterday was a tad hectic to say the least.

Here are 4 pics of the filter foam with dimensions in cm.








If you need any help just shout.

Murray


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## Spartacus (3 Sep 2013)

Wee update if it helps.

Sponge is 6cm at its widest point and 3.5cm top to bottom.

Need more coffee lol


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## RolyMo (3 Sep 2013)

Cheers Murray
Appreciate your efforts.


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## RolyMo (4 Sep 2013)

Hmmm just found a some insect lava in the tank. What shall I do scoop it out and feed to the other tank.


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## RolyMo (6 Sep 2013)

Week and half into he new tank up and running.
Plants are doing ok,without CO2 but I can see a little algae, but hey ho I will keen a close look.

I got my TDS pen through the post from a seller on eBay. And of course realised that all he shrimp breeders on breeders and keepers are talking in conductivity and not TDS ppm. Doh. Thankfully someone mentioned in another post to keep the TDS to 120-180. I did a test and it was 125. 

I got my cheapy waste of money test kit out to just do a few tests to see if the ammonia and nitrites and nitrate levels had settled. To my surprise the ammonia and nitrates had settled. 

So I decided to get a couple of extra Amano shrimp to help keep the algae down in the new tank.  

I drip acclimatised them over a 2hr period and then let them loose into the tank. I added some dried leaves too.

Still annoyed that the work would not sink and thus my plant is bound to a piece of slate rock. Don't laugh it's pitiful. 












Am now researching the minerals,  food and anything else I need .
Cheers
Roly


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## Lindy (7 Sep 2013)

Tie the WOOD to the slate! Then bury slate in substrate...
Also floating plants would be good to diffuse your light a bit to prevent algae.


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## RolyMo (7 Sep 2013)

Hi Lindy
I took the wood out as a temp measure as it was still leaching this slime coating around it. So I have left the plant attached to slate just for it to be attached to something.
I am hoping that the wood will stop doing its slime coating thing and I can transfer it back to the tank.

Floating plants - Good idea. I will ask on the buy and sale section. Any recommendations for a nano tank?


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## RolyMo (7 Sep 2013)

Just been monitoring the TDS which after todays water change etc appears to be 800. So I hope this will go down. 
I think 3 weeks time I will switch to RO water, get some Salty Shrimp - Shrimp Mineral GH/KH+.
I will transfer the Amano into a bag add the RO water and then drip acclimatise them to the new water.
R


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## dw1305 (8 Sep 2013)

Hi all,


RolyMo said:


> And of course realised that all he shrimp breeders on breeders and keepers are talking in conductivity and not TDS ppm


Just multiply the TDS value by ~2, all TDS meters actually measure conductivity and then divide by a conversion factor (somewhere in between 0.5 to 0.64, it should tell you on the meter). 


RolyMo said:


> Just been monitoring the TDS which after todays water change etc appears to be 800


 That is pretty salty.


RolyMo said:


> Floating plants - Good idea. I will ask on the buy and sale section. Any recommendations for a nano tank?


 Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_).

cheers Darrel


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## RolyMo (8 Sep 2013)

Think I misred. It was 320 today.


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## RolyMo (13 Sep 2013)

Have slightly re arranged the plants and dropped the wood back in.

Thought was all good until the last few days where I can see the translucent slime on the end of the wood. Which incidentally has sunk finally.




And some more pictures.









TDS is still approx 300.

Hoping when I am ready to put RO water in this will come down.


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## RolyMo (13 Sep 2013)

Ha ha. I found my trusty kitchen baster. 

Dunk that in an suck off the slime. 

Funny thing is the shrimp appear to get very territorial when the baster comes near them.


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## RolyMo (13 Sep 2013)

WTH is it doing?


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## Lindy (13 Sep 2013)

I think Its doing the amano version of whistling innocently with its hands behind its back while plotting its escape. Little does it know that beyond the tank is unforgiving carpet or laminate....


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## RolyMo (13 Sep 2013)

Lindy
Lol. 
The daft thing is another one started to do it whilst hanging on a plant. Hopefully they are going for the film on the water surface.


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## RolyMo (17 Sep 2013)

I am still stunned that plant growth is all good and algae is non existent in my low tech nano shrimp tank. For all the trials and tribulations of managing my larger hi tech fish tank, plant and algae management appears to be a breeze (false sense of security I know). I moved over a Crypt from the fish tank to the nano to see how that would grow.

Yesterday I ordered (from one of the forum sponsors) some:-

Alder cones
Spinach sticks (gutted they were out of nettle sticks)
Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp GH+
After that comes through I will take a wander down to the LFS and get some RO water. I will see how I get on and if by Christmas I can justify it I will switch to getting an RO machine.

Counting down the days once the RO is in and checking the tank is all ok, to then ordering some CRS SS Mid grade. Probably just 6 to see how I get on with. Is my current thinking.

Good to see the Amano shrimp have molted in the nano tank.

Regards
Roly


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## RolyMo (17 Sep 2013)

Ok. I could not resist.
Today I nipped out to the LFS and got a 25ltr can of RO water with a small dose of their minerals.
Have done a water change subsequently after removing the 3 Amano shrimp into a bag (drip acclimatised them).
The tank now has majority RO water in and Amano shrimp added back in. They all seem to be thoroughly at home.

Took a conductivity reading and got 125ppm. Woo hoo. So am within the parameters. I think I will wait a little longer before ordering the CRS shrimp. But am dammed excited to add some colourful characters to the tank.
Just wondering if I need to get the ceramic tubes for breeding or not?
Hmmm
Roly


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## AshRolls (17 Sep 2013)

RolyMo said:


> Just wondering if I need to get the ceramic tubes for breeding or not?


 
I bought the easy aqua six black shrimp tubes for my planted tank. My shrimp completely ignore them preferring dense foliage when they want to hide (I think I saw a shrimp go into a tube, once). Save your money!


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## RolyMo (17 Sep 2013)

Ah ok!
Cheers AshRolls
I can just imagine the look of frustration as they completely ignore them. 
Roly


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## Lindy (17 Sep 2013)

Mine all go into the Java fern to moult and get jiggy with it.


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## RolyMo (17 Sep 2013)

Hmmm sounds like the birds and bees talk is going to be accelerated with my two girls. Eeeek


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## Lindy (17 Sep 2013)

It's just like humans, the males part in it is over quickly and the female does all the hard work! My 2.5 yr old loves spotting babies. People come into the house and say oooh look at the fish tank and She sEts them straight, NOT fish. SHRIMP!


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## RolyMo (18 Sep 2013)

Yay My order came through from the shrimp supplier. Plopped some alder cones in. and put in a spinach pellet for a treat.
Go away for a meeting. Come back and the water is brown. Hmmm I am guessing it is just the tannins from the Alder cones and nothing to worry about and not harmful to the 3 Amano shrimp.
Makes for interesting viewing and will have to explain to the wife and kids what has happened.

Tomorrow I will try and source in person some shrimp as I am up in London for a meeting or two in Canary Wharf.
Eeek.
Roly


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## Lindy (18 Sep 2013)

My shrimps favourite treat is nettle leaves. You want to pick the young leaves at the top of the plant, I usually pinch out the first 4 new leaves. Boil for a couple of mins then I tie them to a ceramic filter noodle with nylon thread, to weight them down, and then lower into the tank. It means when it is just stalk left I can just pull it up on its thread and don't have to fish about for it. I'm experimenting with drying some nettles for winter after drying some by accident and they turned out great.


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## RolyMo (20 Sep 2013)

Hi Lindy.
Great idea. Mentioned it to the girls and their eyes lit up with excitement as to the danger of sourcing stinging nettles.
I assume gloves are a must. Cut and drop into a plastic bag and bring home to boil.

Your drying technique is this after the boiling or before?
I guess you cant store the boiled nettles as the moistness over time is going to degrade the leaves?

Thanks
Roly.


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## RolyMo (20 Sep 2013)

Oooooooh Oooooooh oooooooo

I just took delivery, drip acclimatised and added 10 CRS SS Grade shrimp to my nano tank.

Blown away. These little critters are awesome!!! I am sooooo excited. 

I am sitting in the kitchen where I tend to work, when at home and no kids and I can see the shrimp all exploring the tank!!! They look really cool against the ADA Amazonia.

Cannot wait for lights on time.

I will post some pictures once they have coloured up a little.

Meanwhile I think it might be mission "Stinging Nettle" this afternoon for the girls when they get back from school.

Woot.

My journey to getting some blue bolts has taken 1 step forward.
Roly.


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## Lindy (20 Sep 2013)

I have dried them wrapping in tissues and putting in the fridge. Before boiling.


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## Spartacus (20 Sep 2013)

Congrats Roly!

Seems like you have been bitten by the bug also 

All the best.


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## Lindy (20 Sep 2013)

RolyMo said:


> I am sitting in the kitchen where I tend to work, when at home and no kids and I can see the shrimp all exploring the tank!!!


 
You are never going to get any work done in there ever again. Ever.


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## RolyMo (21 Sep 2013)

Thanks Murray. 
Let the challenge begin. 
Must keep them alive and get them to reproduce. 
It appears I got spread of SS grades. Some No entry ones, some hinomari ones and some others that look like half moon. Mix of male and female too. So I am hoping that when they get older we might get some more. 

Did not have time to pick nettles so will doing that tomorrow perhaps. 

 Curious I assume the 3 Amano that are in the tank are harmless both physically and mentally to the CRS's?
As they like giants compared to the CRS. 

Lindy you are not wrong. I keep trying to find out as much as I can about them whilst I am supposed to be working. 

Roly


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## Lindy (21 Sep 2013)

I've read on here about amanos grabbing berried females(crs) and picking the eggs off like they were eating popcorn. I wouldn't put anything past amanos so if you can put them in your other tank, that's what I'd do.


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## RolyMo (21 Sep 2013)

Really? Wow. Ok
Well I shall take them out in the next few weeks as they get older.

I got them in there to be part of the clean up crew (Amano and snails). However they are completely oversized compared to the CRS. 










Cheers
R


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## Ady34 (21 Sep 2013)

Looking great Roly.


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## Lindy (21 Sep 2013)

Shrimp look nice and active. It's when they stop moving and just sit about, not feeding,you know something is wrong.


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## RolyMo (21 Sep 2013)

Thanks Ady and Lindy
I am super nervous about these guys. 

I tried the stinging nettles today. But the Amano went straight for it like it was catnip. 

I raised the filter up a bit to create more surface movement to oxygenate the water as I don't have any other air input products and I get the impression CRS like oxygenated water. 

The shrimp seem a little more mellow than last night. However they are clearly doing their feeding routine on various surfaces in the tank. 

Still getting a film on the water surface. Guessing it's something to do with lack of CO2 in the tank. Which I am hesitant to resolve with LC or injected. 

Otherwise all good. 
Might soak the banana leaves I got and add to the tank for tommorrow. 

Thanks again
R


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## Lindy (22 Sep 2013)

I don't have an airstone either. My spray bar runs the length and sits just beneath the water surface, there isn't much agitation but they do fine. I had co2 on my tank to start with and shrimp still got berried but I took it off to increase shrimplet survival. My shrimplets seem to do well and to help them along I use Biomax and Biozyme when I know eggs have just hatched.


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## RolyMo (22 Sep 2013)

Hi Lindy
Thanks for the info. Hmmm my corner dennerle nano filter appeared to be missing the spray bar bit that it was supposed to come with (second hand). So currently the outlet is points from the back right to the front left. 
Visible rippling, but no splashing. 

Spoke to LFS who reckons no need for airstone! But then again I have learned that the experts are on this forum and take with a pinch of salt what the LFS says.
oooh Biomax and Biozyme. I will check it out and read up.

This week I plan to re house the Amano and drip feed acclimatise them to the fish tank (non RO water) to join the clan of Amano in there. Leaving the CRS to chill out and munch their way around the tank and hopefully get a bit fresh in a few months time. 

Side note, they are a bugger to photograph. Need to get a macro lens to get any really good shot, and also mount on a tripod to compensate for the lack of light and the camera shakes.
R


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## RolyMo (24 Sep 2013)

Back to work at home today. Which gave me the chance to fish out the Amano shrimp and drip acclimatise them to the fish tank and release them there. Which I did for 2 as I could not get the last one. So have decided to give it rest and start over this afternoon.

Did a 50% water change with the RO water as TDS was 195. I removed a plant which was yellowing just incase this was causing the TDS to increase. A bit nervous as the RO water was a few degrees cooler than the tank. But no casualties yet and the shrimp seem to be happily going about their routines, some zooming around the tank some chilling on the wood, some crawling around on the substrate. Oh to have the life of a shrimp.


R


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## Lindy (24 Sep 2013)

The 'zooming' might be the males dancing. A female might be about to moult and the boys go a bit crazy


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## RolyMo (24 Sep 2013)

Decided to try and give the SS Shrimp team a treat tonight. I cracked open a sample sachet of Dennerle Shrimp King Complete and took one tab out and plopped into the tank.
Eventually 1 shimp found it and then another, and then 4 more. But then after 20mins its was Meh!! They all buggered off to more serious eating of biofilm.
Will continue with the natural stuff from now on.
R


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## Lindy (24 Sep 2013)

I wouldn't feed them more than a couple of times a week or you will get a lot of planaria and it will spoil your water quality. Over feeding kills!


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## RolyMo (24 Sep 2013)

Another one to research. 
I took out the tab after 30mins anyway.
I have also taken out the banana leaves, although I thought they were more for helping promote health in the shrimp. 
R


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## Lindy (24 Sep 2013)

Banana leaves are fine, put them back in!


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## Iain Sutherland (24 Sep 2013)

Looking good roly and the shrimp look to have nice strong colour.  Personally i wouldnt feed at all fella, until you get large numbers there is no need, it will raise tds  and increase the chance of polluting the water.  Also be a little careful with water changes, 50% is a lot, better to do 3 or 4 small ones in a week to bring it down rather than one 50%, CRS really dont like large swings in TDS.  Cooler water is fine, warmer not so much at WC.


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## RolyMo (24 Sep 2013)

Nice tips Iain. Thank you.
I too am pleased with the colours. They exceeded expectations to what I was expecting. I wonder what the. PRL's would be like?

I had sneaked the RO gerry can in from the shed to the airing cupboard as it was 18 degrees versus 22 in the tank.

Hopefully the small food tab won't have raised the TDS that much in 30mins. Will test the TDS tomorrow.

I will also plop back in some more banana leaves.

I think the combo of a smaller tank and the sensitive inhabitants make for an exciting roller coaster ride. Blimey.

Still have to fish out the last Amano who was keeping very low key this afternoon. Whilst his mates were having a rip roaring time in the fish tank hanging with their new pals on the big redmoor wood. Occasionally to be seen zipping round the tank.

So conclusion is..... No food. Let them feed off the biofilm. As per the sponsors suggestions.

Thanks again guys for the steer on all matters "Shrimp".
Yay
R


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## RolyMo (26 Sep 2013)

After playing cat and mouse with the last Amano shrimp for 2 days, I decided to risk it and pull out the wood it was hiding under. I feverishly checked the wood to make sure there was no CRS stowaways onboard and put it to one side.

Amano shrimp you are mine. There it was in the open.
Net in, coax from behind and boom got him (or her).

The shrimp has now been acclimatised to the fish tank and added.

Operation "Dont squash the posh shriimp" was then put into full swing and I gingerly lowered the root back into the tank, ensuring no CRS were trapped in the delicate operation.

Couple of banana leaves back in. Some newly added Frogbit sent from another forum member (thank you) and the tank is now a CRS only tank.

Might get the girls to make a sign for the tank saying "CRS only, No Amano allowed", just like their bedroom signs they make about no boys allowed etc.

The Pink Ramshorns appear to be very amorous over the past few days. Today they were hanging out together on the frogbit roots whilst the tank current twirled them around. How romantic and most amusing.

TDS = 179ppm
Temp = 23 degrees C

R


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## RolyMo (27 Sep 2013)

I noticed from my stats on my last post that I did not have a PH reading. I did whip out the API test kit and tried to see what the PH is, but concluded it the colour chart could be between 6.8 to 7.2!!!!!????? so I wondered having seen the recent posting about PH pens whether I should get one of those or using RO water with Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp GH+ I should not worry about the PH?

I did notice yesterday evening that after the removal of the final Amano and slight shake up of moving the root to get to it 2 - 3 of the CRS seemed to just sit there not doing to much. Occasionally they would move and do their foraging thing. This morning they seem to be all active some are feeding from the roots of the frogbit, others have been zooming. So a sigh of relief.

R


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## RolyMo (2 Oct 2013)

First eeeeek moment in the shrimp tank. 

Been away for 2 days. No problems. Family have been dutifully turning on and off the lights. Today sitting WFH I have been admiring the tank. Every so often wandering over tending to bits of it. Added some new catappa leaves.

Then noticed behind the filter that a shrimp was stuck horizontally. On the dennerle corner nano filter it splits in the middle so you can put the replacement cartridge in. There was a gap in between the sections and the shrimp was stuck being sucked in.

Not sure for how long.

I quickly turned off the filter and gently pulled it out and the shrimp fell to tank bottom. Gulp!!!! bottom lip going. 

However I could see some movement so it appears to be alive.

The shrimp is now right sided and sitting there. If I prod it gently with some tweezers the shrimp does move. So I am guessing it is still getting over the shock.

Praying the shrimp survives the night.

I have since put a zip tag around the filter covering the gap.

Otherwise I might be forced to get some PRL shrimp to make up for my first death. And I dont want to do that. 

Gulp.
R


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## RolyMo (5 Oct 2013)

More of an observational week this week as I have been away for a few days and nights.

I noticed the Frogbit roots grow very quickly in my tank, thus the roots drag onto some of the other foliage and slow down its circuits around the tank. The snails like the frog bit roots. They take turns on using it to transport themselves around the tank.
The pink ramshorn snails are getting bigger.
The shimp are also noticeably bigger too. Which I am stunned and excited about.
TDS has stayed at a constant 155ppm.
Temp is around to 23-24 degrees C mark.

Several purchases this week.

Electronic timer switch. Same ones as I use on the main fish tank. This one is purely for the light on the shrimp tank. I like these electronic ones because the variety of programming patterns you can have and also the battery backup when you either unplug or there is a power cut. Its a Timeguard TG77 7 Day Compact Electronic Timeswitch, incase you wanted to know. The clear advantage though is no ticking noise like the manual timer switches.
I bought a portion of Vesicularia dubyana 'Christmas' from George
I bought some other moss from LFS, Tropica 1-2 grow Taxiphyllum barbieri and Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'
 
Today I set about playing with mosses.

This will be take 3 in trying to get them to work and not go brown. I have tried a number of times before to work with mosses so the outlay this time it had better work.

In the shrimp tank I have the Christmas moss and the Taxiphyllum barbieri. I have not done anything fancy other than take my redmoor out and then used normal black cotton and tied strips of the Taxiphyllum barbieri onto the wood. I have also tied a little of the Vesicularia dubyana Christmas on but in the main have left that sitting on the substrate for the shrimp to muck about in.

Carefully lowered the wood back in making sure no CRS were under the wood.

There is certainly plenty of places for the shrimp to hang out in chow down on biofilm etc.

At the same time I read the thread on the growing mosses in jars and set about cleaning thoroughly some jars and taking a sample of each of the mosses and dumping them into water filled jars and putting them on the window sill.

I am going to leave it few more days before doing a water change in the shrimp tank as all seems good at the moment.

Still internally debating the need for a PH meter. Will wait until Nov time me things.

Hoping the 2nd issue of Breeders and Keepers is finished soon so I have something else to read.

Regards
R


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## RolyMo (5 Oct 2013)

Can someone remind me what the issue and resolution to this plant issue is. I have a feeling it might be lack of nutrients.





And some other photos.








Oh and I forgot to add I found a moulted skin. So very pleased with the shrimp, and I must admit they are a great colour even as they get larger. So thanks to Freshwater Shrimp.
R


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## Iain Sutherland (5 Oct 2013)

Hi roly, if you mean the different colour on microsorum leaves then its not an issue but just the way they grow.
+1 to waiting for breeders and keepers!!


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## RolyMo (7 Oct 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hi roly, if you mean the different colour on microsorum leaves then its not an issue but just the way they grow.
> +1 to waiting for breeders and keepers!!


 

Phew!!! I could not remember. I thought it might have been a plant food deficiency and was dreading it might be CO2 deficiency.

Update from yesterday. With lots of plant growth in the tank, it is becoming more challenging to count 10 shrimp. This became evident when I stupidly unplugged the filter to plug in the lawnmower on Sunday. And of course completely forgot about it for a period of 5 hours. Hmmmm 

So after plugging it back in, I raised the filter outlet above the water level to the water cascaded down into the tank water, making bubbles etc. as to try and increase the aeration for a bit.

I then did a 20% water change, sucking up any floating bits. Sweeping the substrate is a bit of a challenge as my tube sucks up the granules of ADA if you are not careful. Most annoying.

And then I saw something that I thought I saw last weekend, albeit I was under the influence of alcohol and put it down to I was dreaming it at the time.

This time I was stone cold sober (ok 2 bottles of Peroni) and saw it again. A very faint thin tiny white thread like worm, just floating a slightly wriggling in mid water. Must have been approx 1cm long and less than 1mm thick.

I promptly syphoned it and its pal away. I thought at first it might be a Hydra thing, but doesn't that have multiple tentacles? Slightly concerned as I don't particularly want to dose the tank with anything harmful to the shrimp.

Any ideas?
Cheers
Roly


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## Lindy (7 Oct 2013)

Sounds like detritus worm and I have loads and doesn't seem to do shrimp any harm. Normally your fish would eat these so you'd never see them.


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## RolyMo (7 Oct 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> Sounds like detritus worm and I have loads and doesn't seem to do shrimp any harm. Normally your fish would eat these so you'd never see them.


 

Hi Lindy
Thanks for coming to the rescue again. Much appreciated.
Thank goodness. I am always worried about the parasites.

I have noticed there is quite a few snails now. Both the type I want and the ones I dont want. In the fish tank I just dont overfeed and the buggers die off. In the shrimp tank I am not feeding and they are multiplying. 
Guess I am going to be on a crunching mission now. 

Cheers
R


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## RolyMo (15 Oct 2013)

One week on and still all the shrimp are alive (assuming they are as I can see 7-8 and am guessing the other 2 are hiding somewhere).

I have switched to a regular 20% weekly water change. Which seems fine.

I have playing with the concept of raising the nano filter so the outlet is out of the water and the jet of water is not spraying but clearly denting the water surface as it goes back into the water. Its just on the edge of actually sploshing the surface. If you know what I mean. 

I am thoroughly amazed that the plants are not suffering and algae is at bay so far in this Low Tech tank. Lights are on for 6 hours only. I would like to up that time as I am curious as to what the optimum time is for CRS shrimp. But am aware a longer photo period might mean more demands for nutrients and CO2 for the plants.

The shrimp are getting noticeable longer and bigger and seem all healthy. I have not fed them at all.

What's going on? I was expecting death and calamity with shrimp and/or plants. But neither have materialised. Ah ok there is something a little wrong. Snails. Lots of snails. But its hardly a problem, apart from I am not overfeeding, but clearly there is food in abundance for them to multiply

I have also taken to Youtube and done searches on CRS Shrimp to see what comes up and have been fascinated by some of the videos, from normal people, breeders and even the corporate companies who do this for a living. I did not realise how much of an industry this is in the Far East. I watched this years Shrimp contest in Hannover, Germany and watched the amazing shrimp. So now I want a second tank to house some other breeds of shrimp rather than mixing them into the one tank (I realise that some types do not mix). I would like to stick with CRS in this tank, keep it simple. Perhaps I might add some SSS grade shrimp into the same tank.

Bought some Fissendens moss on wire mesh from one of the forum sponsors, and plopped that into one of few remain open spaces on the substrate. Hoping that grows nicely over the months.

I have even found some traditional Japanese music on Spotify to play whilst watching them as I work at home!!! 

Back to looking at SSS and PRL grades.
Roly


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## Lindy (15 Oct 2013)

It took about 3 months before I started losing shrimp and it wasn't a sudden, they're all dead, thing. It was one a week kind of gradual decimation. Obviously there weren't enough of the right stuff in the water so Mosura mineral plus was recommended to me. Haven't looked back so maybe you have averted any disasters by starting out with the right stuff


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## RolyMo (16 Oct 2013)

Lindy
I'm hoping that is the case, that I started out correctly. But at the same time I cannot believe you went into the hobby with your eyes shut. What minerals did you use before the Mosura stuff?
R


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## Lindy (16 Oct 2013)

I was using the Bee shrimp mineral gh+. I'm going to give this stuff another go in the wee cube to see if it was another factor. My difficulty is that to get the tds to 150/160 I have to add too much mosura m+ and the gh gets too high. I now use the mosura m+ to get gh of 5 and then use mosura tds UP to get the tds to 160. I have also found that when I replaced the active carbon in the filter I had berried shrimp within days and now all the mature females are berried so I'm going to keep up with 6week changes for that. I buy the activated carbon by the large bag on ebay as well as my filter floss/ sponge by the sheet. Much cheaper and the carbon comes with a wee bag that you can reuse in your filter. Much cheaper!


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## RolyMo (17 Oct 2013)

Lindy - Ah. Understood on the water front. Nightmare!

Interesting thought on the active carbon. Might try sneaking some into my filter at some point to see if it triggers the same. 

Managed to nip into London yesterday to purchase some shrimp and the what was more amazing that I was able to drip acclimatise and add 3 PRL shrimp to the shrimp tank all without my wife noticing. 

So very pleased. 
The other shrimp are growing to noticeable sizes now. Very impressed. 

The plan is working. 
R


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## steveno (17 Oct 2013)

Hello rolymo, I have been reading through your very informative journal as about to start my own shrimp only tank. finally manage to convince the boss to let me start my own nano... Just purchase myself a 30l Dennerle tank - complete set... Come With pretty much all you need to start. Am considering a dsm to attach moss and start a hc carpet, also always wanted to try dsm. like yours tank will be low tech. This will be my first shrimp only tank, so is there any advise you could offer to a newby like myself... Cheers in advance.


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## RolyMo (17 Oct 2013)

Hi steveno
Thanks for reading. 
Lo tech is all new to me. And I am still not sure completely about the science behind it as I learnt with the hi tech fish tank that light, co2 and circulation were king. Followed fast by plant food. 

Low tech no  added co2, no plant food. Hmmm 

I purposely did not put HC into mine as I thought it required good co2 and circulation and hence my confusion. 

DSM - not tried it. But have seen plenty of others on UKAPS so my advice would to look on the forum. 

On the shrimp. I get mixed messages about how sensitive they are. Some say easy others say not. Some say the more exotic breeds are more sensitive hence start with cheaper breeds. 

Me I was will to gamble some more at the SS grade as I was becoming confident the water column and tank appeared to be ok. 

However I am testing the conductivity most days and anything I am not happy about I do a small water change. 

I should really be monitoring the PH but the liquid test kit is open to interpretation so will look to get a PH pen. But in reality I am surviving without. 

I think the big contributor is using RO water and then buying the relevant minerals to get the hardness, conductivity and pH to right levels. 

Good luck.
Rolymo


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## Iain Sutherland (17 Oct 2013)

I believe your right roly, as long as you are using Remineralised RO  with the correct TDS then the ph and kh etc fall into line, consideration for hardscape that effects parameters have to be considered though, inert for an easy life    I cant say i have ever tested anything but tds in my shrimp tank.
Using HC lowtech even after DSM when ive tried it it would always fail after about 2-3 months.  Im a big advocate of Elantine as a low tech substitute for HC as it goes just fine with low light, minimal ferts etc...

Im glad its going well for you Roly, happy shrimp are very satisfying to watch.


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## RolyMo (17 Oct 2013)

Thanks Iain for the good intel. Especially confirmation on the water parameters. Also interesting on the HC. Will look at your suggested alternative. 

Was also interesting to see George's PRL get snapped up in one minute flat. 

Just shows the interest in shrimp is thriving. 

From my limited experience I do think the UK is lagging somewhat behind Germany and the Scandinavia countries. Shame really. 

Think there is a big market. 

R


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## RolyMo (18 Oct 2013)

Yay Shrimp

Sorry have just come back from the pub after a few pints of beer. 

Goodnight all. 
R


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## Lindy (18 Oct 2013)

where did you get them and what grade?


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## RolyMo (18 Oct 2013)

It's the one on the left.
Got them from Freshwatershrimp. Went in personally (as I work 2-3 times in London), which is dangerous  Because of all the stuff that you can buy. 

I was in there when another couple were buying a load of Panda's and king kongs. They looked really cool. Was very jealous. Now I need another tank for those. 

Now forgive me on the quality/grades as I am still learning and even now I am little confused about the different strains, styles, grades and PRL, Benibachi/C-Sky etc. etc. etc. of CRS. I thought I had it nailed, but then something else on a website throws my thinking out of the window.

So what I understood and were sold as technically PRL (low grade) SS. However 1 had no red markings below its headband (which in my limited opinion) would be SSS. The other 2 had a spec of red on there backs, but other than that solid white back part from the red band at the head. And was told do a bit a of selective breeding and the red spot would disappear in the offspring. So technically those 2 I guess would be PRL SS but if I can breed to tiny red spec out then it becomes PRL SSS?

But if you noticed last night George was shifting some of his PRL *high grade  * stock which looked like SS style to me. So worth a watch on those.
R


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## RolyMo (18 Oct 2013)

Oh I have not had a chance to look at the leg colour yet!


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## RolyMo (18 Oct 2013)




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## RolyMo (19 Oct 2013)

Today was tank maintenance day. 
On the shrimp tank I took my trusty toothbrush and brushed the inside of the tank.
Using an airline I syphoned off some water and at the same time sucked up detritus and surface scum.
Trimmed the plants where needed.
Pulled out a limp banana leaf.

Changed and cleaned the filter. This week I added a slice of active carbon sponge.
The filter now contains. Sponge top and bottom, floss in the front middle, a pouch of Purigen, and a slice of active carbon sponge in the back middle.

Lights have been set to come on at 11am and turn off at 22:00.

3 hours later shrimp all seem fine and active.

Query on the grading:-

C-sky, Benibachi, Ebi Ten, Yu etc are different strains some better than others. But all deliver a CRS shrimp.
PRL - Is literally good quality colour and guarantee of no white or golden offspring. So they are pure but can be different grades
Grades: A, B, C, S, SS, SSS are all different colour patterns and quality.

So if wanted to I could get some Ebi Ten PRL SSS shrimp and I would be broke, but have some kick ass looking shrimp and a nice certificate.
I could get some normal SSS and I get some cool patterned shrimp (more white than red etc as per all the charts I have seen), risk that offspring might be golden in some cases but have money left over to run the house etc.

Is my above understanding correct?

Thanks 
Roly


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## Fishy Did (22 Oct 2013)

Great journal! Your enthusiasm is infectious and reading through has got me smiling ... Japanese music?! lol I might have to give that a go.

I can't really help with the grading etc. but back a couple of pages you were talking about nettles and keeping them dried. I missed my nettles last winter and it was some relief when they returned in the spring, so I'm determined not to let that happen again this year. So I have a supply that I have blanched as usual, but then they went into the freezer wrapped individually in some cut up plasticbag. I also keep some dried like Lindy's so it will be interesting to see which ones turn out the best, but I'll only use it when the fresh stuff has all gone.


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Thanks Fishy Did. Very kind. 

I just checked my freezer and I think my missus has thrown out my nettles. Goddamit.  

Tubular Bells might work too. Or some JMJ


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Just chucked away some more money.
Ordered a Mini oxydator. So will see if that keeps the campers happy in the tank. Will let you know how it goes Lindy, as I am guess you want the larger one?

I feel like I need to keep a watch on the snails now, to stop them shagging all the time. I have two daughters to worry about let alone worry about a tank with snail procreating all the time!! Shimps however are most welcome get jiggy with it.
R


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## Lindy (22 Oct 2013)

Nope, I've ordered the Mini one for my 30cm cube. Just tell your girls that the snails are lazy and hitching a ride. Maybe say hitching a lift instead Went back to hobbyshrimp and ordered some of that beeshrimp stuff that was recomended along with a new net


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Cool. Nice one on the oxydator. As for the snails It's just that there is loads of Pink Ramshorn in my tank. In the fish tank I originally put them in there to help, and never saw a population explosion like the one I am seeing in the shrimp tank.
Watched a nice video linked from hobbyshrimp. Added it to my youtube channel and then looked at others from the same place. Looks like a German breeder. I get the impression that the Benibachi stuff is top end?


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## Lindy (22 Oct 2013)

I want a shrimp rack! Need to see how much space we have when we've moved....


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Errr where will you put a shrimp rack? How many tanks?


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

mini FEEEEDING FREEEEENNNNNZZZZZYYYYY


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## Lindy (22 Oct 2013)

You could insulate an out building or garage. We will put our place on the market in spring next year and then have a look whats available in the village we want to move to. If there was a garage or something I'm sure I could talk my husband around. Mind you, our water is shrimp death so It would cost an arm and a leg just get the water right.


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## Lindy (22 Oct 2013)

I think 9 tanks...


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Wow. Nine tanks. Would you put in each?


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## steveno (22 Oct 2013)

Really enjoying reading your journal, learning loads... Hopfully I can apply some of what i have learnt to my new set up. Thxs...


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Oct 2013)

Where did you get those CRS from Roly? they look excellent quality. very nice colouration.


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel. They are all from one of the sponsors freshwatershrimp
The majority are CRS SS however Ed did say that there would be no golden or white ofspring. So does that make them PRL? The colours in my limited experience of shrimp do appear to be lovely. The reds are a good deep red and the white is pretty good too. For my first batch I am impressed and thanks to Eduard at freshwatershrimp for sorting me out on my first foray into keeping CRS shrimp.

Thanks Steveno. I will continue to write my learning as to what is happening to the tank and shrimp.
R


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## Lindy (22 Oct 2013)

if they can produce cbs then not prl.


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## RolyMo (22 Oct 2013)

Yes Ed said that too.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Oct 2013)

Yeah must be some Pures then. Nice one!


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## RolyMo (23 Oct 2013)

Yes its nice when a supplier goes the extra mile, includes something extra or upgrades you. I only found out after the order and dropped him an email saying the shrimp looked fantastic and thank you. Great service.
So the next time I wanted something I went in personally to get some stuff. Its stuff like that, that really makes a difference and makes you come back for more.
Hopefully I will see if they really are pureline. Of course no certificate like the Benibachi etc. But hey I'm a noob. I just want some great looking shrimp to see in my planted tank.


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## RolyMo (24 Oct 2013)

Woot my Oxygenator came in the post along with the Benibachi BeeMax.


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## Lindy (24 Oct 2013)

Damn it! I'm still waiting for mine..Did you sniff your BeeMax?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (24 Oct 2013)

ldcgroomer said:


> Damn it! I'm still waiting for mine..Did you sniff your BeeMax?



Roly got yours


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## Lindy (24 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Roly got yours


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## RolyMo (24 Oct 2013)

I not sure I want to sniff the BeeMax.  I have neighbours who are in the police, I might get wrongfully busted. Already concerned about the Ferts for the plants I have might be misconstrued for another usage!!
In the end it smelt slightly musty/perfumed smell. Was shocked at the size and that it says 1 teaspoon a day. But Nathaniel has confirmed that you use the spoon included, which is weenie. So the pack is going last a long time. Not sure when the stuff sinks though?
R


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## Lindy (24 Oct 2013)

RolyMo said:


> Not sure when the stuff sinks though?


 
Yeah, I think I might wet it first next time as I've a lot of floaters. I didn't think much of the smell either but it seems to be like catnip for Nat


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## RolyMo (25 Oct 2013)

Hmmm.
A quick look on the Benibachi USA website has this on the description for Beemax "Use 1 spoon for a 20G tank after weekly water changes *(mixed well in a cup of tank water) *or use 20g for a 20G tank during tank setup."

But UK Benibachi and hobbyshrimp websites have a different description not mentioning the "*(mixed well in a cup of tank water)"*

Today's dose of Beemax was *mixed well in a cup of tank water* and with a bit of coaxing into the tank, appears to have taken better to the water column and hopefully the substrate.

On another note. I have moved the filter down back into the water so the outlet pipe is now streaming straight across the tank 3 quarters submerged. As I tried the outlet pipe completely out of the water so the water cascaded into the tank. Although I am sure oxygen levels rose due to the water plopping into the tank, the side effect of the cascading was that the surface was still further away from the outlet pipe. The Fogbit would gather around the filter rather than whizz round the tank. Now the outlet pipe is mostly submerged I get flow and surface agitation. Oxygen added into the water column with the use of a Söchting Oxydator mini. Job done.

Hopefully the shrimp are enjoying their new first class lifestyle and the playa's amongst them will make themselves known. Ohhh yeah!!! 
R


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Oct 2013)

Hey roly, this oxygenator malarky.. never seen them before until you linked that vid.  How do they actually work??
First class lifestyle now for your inverts!!
As good as the Mosura products are, love bt9, if you want to save some cash the holland and barrett 100% organic spirulina power is a great baby food


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## RolyMo (25 Oct 2013)

Hi Iain. I can only go by the manufacturers website and what was on Hobby Shrimp and thought I would give it try. I ordered the mini version which came with 2 bottles of the solution and I bought another one for less than £2.

As Lindy says on her Journal it might work out more expensive than an airstone. But aesthetically it is less unsightly than an airstone. Especially as I have quite a small tank and already have wires and internal filter in view. This is discreet and I can hide it a little in some of the plants.

I have noticed today the plants are pearling (might be the oxygen building up) quite a lot more than normal.

Go on you have intrigued me about the Mosura BT9. I have often wondered which is the better range, Mosura or Benibachi or another. Its hard to tell as some online shops sell one or the other, some swear by one or the other, but price, quality and effectiveness must come into it. A la Ford, BMW, Bentley etc.

So is the Mosura BT9 an alternative to the Benibachi BeeMax? The description on the BT9 seems to show it does a lot more than the Beemax? So should I be using it as well as the BeeMax. Is there any other additives I should be using that are proven (rather than some of the wishy washy descriptions about may improve XYZ)? Is the H&B Spirulina something I need to get for if I get shrimplets? Confused.  Help

Appreciate the comments. Thanks in advance.
Cheer
Roly


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## Lindy (25 Oct 2013)

Apparently you can buy hydrogen Peroxide at the Pharmacy. I'll have to check that out and see if it is cheaper. Did you use 1 or 2 ceramic catylists in your oxydator? I started with 1 then put the second in, figured it wouldn't do any harm.


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## RolyMo (25 Oct 2013)

Lindy I plopped just one of the catalysts in as my tank is 20-25ltr, not sure what the effects are of lots of oxygen.


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## Lindy (25 Oct 2013)

Hmmm, maybe will take one back out.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (25 Oct 2013)

Hydrogen peroxide is available in boots for maybe £2 a bottle. 

And this oxygenation technique has an advantage over Airstones, as this Sochting doesn't gas off Co2 in a high tech environment.

Win-win 

If your not injecting co2, then the alternate method of oxidising your water, in raising Lily/spray causing surface agitation and an air stone will actually increase your water co2 level.


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## Lindy (25 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Hydrogen peroxide is available in boots for maybe £2 a bottle.


 
What would you cut the hydrogen peroxide with to get the right %? The oxydator wants 4.9%


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (25 Oct 2013)

I think it would be just Distilled or RO water?


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Oct 2013)

RolyMo said:


> Go on you have intrigued me about the Mosura BT9. I have often wondered which is the better range, Mosura or Benibachi or another. Its hard to tell as some online shops sell one or the other, some swear by one or the other, but price, quality and effectiveness must come into it. A la Ford, BMW, Bentley etc.
> 
> So is the Mosura BT9 an alternative to the Benibachi BeeMax? The description on the BT9 seems to show it does a lot more than the Beemax? So should I be using it as well as the BeeMax. Is there any other additives I should be using that are proven (rather than some of the wishy washy descriptions about may improve XYZ)? Is the H&B Spirulina something I need to get for if I get shrimplets? Confused.  Help


 

Jeez, ill be honest mate i dont really know but what i did see  in my tank is no breeding for a long time after introduction, think like 3-4 months, the shrimp were very much old enough to start producing.  Then i started using BT9 and saw a big increase in berried females and shortly after a massive influx in shrimplets.  I havent stopped since and always have 4-6 berried females.

I dont believe in adding all the products they offer and in all honesty when bt9 runs out i will try without to see what happens as less can be more with shrimp, but ultimately the more you add to the water the more the TDS will rise which will have more of a negative effect than any potion we add could counter??! im pretty sure that ive never seen a mosura bottle at eds when visiting and think some may be a bit like adding penac to substrate... more benefit to the company GP than the hobbiest.

Spirulina is great as a powered food, i found i was seeing a lot of berried females but not many shrimplets if any for a while, then after reading breeders and keepers it seems to be a well regarded fact that powdered food is critical in the first few days when the shrimplets dont move.  I now have spirulina and mosura powdered feed which i add a couple of times a week.  Just be careful as its very easy to over feed with powdered foods!


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## John S (25 Oct 2013)

Nothing to add to the current discussion but just wanted to say what a great journal this is, as was your 'my first aquarium'. I really should do a journal next time I start a tank. I always seem to seek advice when it goes wrong as opposed to avoid some of the problems by getting the experienced input beforehand.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (25 Oct 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Jeez, ill be honest mate i dont really know but what i did see in my tank is no breeding for a long time after introduction, think like 3-4 months, the shrimp were very much old enough to start producing. Then i started using BT9 and saw a big increase in berried females and shortly after a massive influx in shrimplets. I havent stopped since and always have 4-6 berried females.
> 
> I dont believe in adding all the products they offer and in all honesty when bt9 runs out i will try without to see what happens as less can be more with shrimp, but ultimately the more you add to the water the more the TDS will rise which will have more of a negative effect than any potion we add could counter??! im pretty sure that ive never seen a mosura bottle at eds when visiting and think some may be a bit like adding penac to substrate... more benefit to the company GP than the hobbiest.
> 
> Spirulina is great as a powered food, i found i was seeing a lot of berried females but not many shrimplets if any for a while, then after reading breeders and keepers it seems to be a well regarded fact that powdered food is critical in the first few days when the shrimplets dont move. I now have spirulina and mosura powdered feed which i add a couple of times a week. Just be careful as its very easy to over feed with powdered foods!


 

Excellent info Iain, I'm going to order some Benebachi Baby food and Beemax


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## RolyMo (25 Oct 2013)

John S. Having a journal is priceless I have found. Thanks for the comment.


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## RolyMo (25 Oct 2013)

Iain 
Thank for the pointers. Great info. Thanks. 
Sorry if I bombarded you with questions. 
Cheers
Roly


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## RolyMo (28 Oct 2013)

Have noticed that now some of the shrimp are larger that some have red legs, namely the last lot that came from freshwatershrimp. Hmmm interesting. What will happen when they breed I wonder?


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## RolyMo (30 Oct 2013)

Little and large face off.


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## RolyMo (7 Nov 2013)

Ah. I have to say the online shimp shops are really good. Really pleased with the service from them all to date.
Received some leaves, baby food, Bee strong and Bee speed through the post, promptly and with a nice explanation as to why the extra stuff. Which for me the shrimp Noob is great.

Also got through some of Georges shrimp through the post which have been dutifully drip acclimatised over 2hrs and then added to the rest of the population. Was unsure at first if they should be quarantined, but I have no facilities do do that, so have risked it and added. They all appear to have settled in nicely. Good colours. Now all I need to do is work out if I have male and females in the tank as buying shrimp is a costly business.
R


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## Lindy (7 Nov 2013)

Bee speed? Is that like drugs for shrimp?


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## RolyMo (7 Nov 2013)

LOL -  I did wonder Lindy. 

What occurred was that I ordered, in preparation (probably a bit prematurely as we are coming into winter), some Benibachi baby food. However the online shop had run out (as have most) and thus sent me through a natural baby food, plus the Benibachi Bee Speed, and Benibachi Bee Strong. I guess as to supplement the natural baby food. 

All I can find on the web is the product description for the Super Enzyme Bee Speed which says "_Benibachi Bee Speed is the latest product in the Benibachi product range. This pumpkin based powder has been designed to help promote the growth of both shrimp and plants within the aquarium. Other than pumpkin, the ingredients are be kept a closely guarded secret, we are told the results of Bee Speed are "phenomenal"_
_Simply sprinkle a pinch of Bee Speed directly into the aquarium each each week."_
Will give it go however I am not sure I am qualified to know if it makes a difference.

Meanwhile I will watch carefully for shrimp raving in my tank, tripping their nuts off on Bee Speed. 
R


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (7 Nov 2013)

RolyMo said:


> LOL -  I did wonder Lindy.
> 
> What occurred was that I ordered, in preparation (probably a bit prematurely as we are coming into winter), some Benibachi baby food. However the online shop had run out (as have most) and thus sent me through a natural baby food, plus the Benibachi Bee Speed, and Benibachi Bee Strong. I guess as to supplement the natural baby food.
> 
> ...




Take a spoonful yourself before maintenance. You'll have the cleanest tank in town.


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## Otto72 (16 Nov 2013)

RolyMo said:
			
		

> Meanwhile I will watch carefully for shrimp raving in my tank, tripping their nuts off on Bee Speed.




Just got to the end of this Journal, wow what a mountain of valuable information 
I was gonna start my first tank after being out of the hobby for some time with Fire Red's but this Journal is leaning me towards starting with CRS now, oh what to do 

Subscribed


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## RolyMo (16 Nov 2013)

Hi otto72 
Thank you kindly.
This is my first foray into these type of specialist shrimp and a number of other methods too.

So far everything has been, dare I say it....... easy.

But as I mentioned I think earlier on in the journal, it may all be because I have it fully planted, using the active substrate, RO etc etc, which in turn makes it easy.

Thanks again for your comments.
R


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## steveno (16 Nov 2013)

Hello Rolymo,

Glad all is going well, no update photos thou


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## RolyMo (16 Nov 2013)

Yep will do. I have the girls all weekend as my wife has gone to a black tie affair in Cambridge somewhere. So I am corralling my 2 spirited girls. However it will involve a quick trip to the LFS to get some RO water. 

The shrimp all seem to growing nicely, all with lovely colours. I seem to have a good spread of S, SS and SSS grade in there. 

I had a slight delay on my weekly maintenance. Shrimp tank had a water change at 12 days instead of 7 and the fish tank 14 days. 

The shrimp did not appear to be affected. 

I am adding the following:-
Bee Max everyday
Bee Speed once a week
Bee Strong once every 2 weeks








R


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## Otto72 (16 Nov 2013)

Have you any noticeable changes since using the Bee speed?


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## RolyMo (16 Nov 2013)

Good Question Otto72
Nope. Not yet. I guess the real test would be 2 tanks and one gets the bee speed and the other does not. But, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
It has only been a matter of 2 weeks with the Bee Speed and I am not used to how they develop over time so it is hard to understand what benefits is giving the shrimp. The plants are all good however.
R


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## steveno (16 Nov 2013)

Looking good, some nice colour on those CRS...


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## RolyMo (17 Nov 2013)

Thanks mate. I have no idea on colours. But I agree these do look striking.


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## RolyMo (22 Nov 2013)

Eeeeek
Have been monitoring TDS each day and the reading has been 130ppm. Not sure that is ideal, but it is fine.

I did a water change yesterday with some new RO water after the jerry can had last 4 weeks and tested the TDS and saw it shot up to 170ppm. 

Now admittedly when I got the RO water home at the weekend I did a check on the water before adding the Salty Shrimp GH+ and that said 3ppm. When I added the recommend amount of Salty Shrimp it got to 110ppm, so I added a little more and that got it to 120. But I wonder if the salts had not all dissolved and thus 4 days later when I did a 20% water change I see the the figure of 170ppm.

However the shrimp all seem fine. 

When I do the water change I take the opportunity to suck the small snails out and reduce the population. 

Loving the shrimp but I don't think I could get away with putting up the new 2104 Breeders & Keepers shrimp calender.


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## RolyMo (22 Nov 2013)

Another interesting observation, and it is difficult to know what caused it.

Last night I removed the old alder cones (a few months old) and added a couple more.

This morning I removed the Frogbit  as some of it was a bit patchy.

From this morning, the shrimps are loving the tank. I mean they are all suddenly quite active.

So which is it?
The Tannins released from the Alder cones which have tinted the water colour eu naturelle and hopefully helped with the water quality and health of the shrimp?
or
The removal of the Frogbit, letting some more light into the tank?

Answers please on a reply to this journal.
Have a good weekend.
R


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## Otto72 (22 Nov 2013)

Put more frogbit back in and see if they stop being so active again 




			
				RolyMo said:
			
		

> This morning I removed the Frogbit as some of it was a bit patchy.


 
Maybe the dying frogbit was effecting your water quality? 
Also I read those cones are supposed to be good for water parameters, how do you prep them, blanch them first?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (22 Nov 2013)

Yeah adding the Alder cones I'd say pal.


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## Lindy (23 Nov 2013)

Maybe a female is about to moult and the males are dancing?


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## RolyMo (26 Nov 2013)

Ok limited scientific experiment. 
New frogbit went in shrimp calmed down.
A few days on I did a bit of peering into the books and crannies and spotted a moult.

I dont actually prep the alder cones. I just plop then. Shake them about to release the air bubbles that make them float, but otherwise nothing else. 
Cheers r


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## nayr88 (26 Nov 2013)

nice journal Roly
nice bit of kit and reallly really like the leaves in the tank
noiiiiiiceeeeeeeeee


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## RolyMo (27 Nov 2013)

Thanks nayr88
Appreciate your comments.
R


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## RolyMo (28 Nov 2013)

Ok. Going to remove the frogbit now for a few days and observe.

However I have just spotted my first issue of real concern in the tank. Hair Algae. Gaaaaaaaah!!!!!! WTF!!!!!! 

Oh well. I shall do a trim of plants so I can get a better flow. Will use the toothbrush to get rid of the hair algae and watch.
After reading the guides I am not clear as to if it is a light issue, too much waste? Of course the guides in the forum all say CO2, and nutrients etc. But as its a low tech tank I am reluctant to add Co2 in any form.

Do CRS like hair algae?
R


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## RolyMo (28 Nov 2013)

To further the above post.
I checked the TDS which has been as low as 130 and high as 190 over the past 2 weeks. I was 183. Which I thought was odd.

I then pulled out the much ignored APS test kit and tested for Ammonia as the Algae guides clearly give this as one reason. The colour match was saying 2ppm on Ammonia. Hmmm. So that to me, means there is something wrong and that the bacteria cannot break down organics.

Of course I do what every noob does and go into a complete blind panic. Only because its posh shrimp, small tank, bad things happen fast etc etc.

Truth. I stopped doing my powerpoint for work and sat there and thought about what could have happened. 

In the end I am guessing there has been too much organics for the shrimp, plants and bacteria to consume so it has started to go bad.

Actions taken so far:-

I have cut some of the plants back
Do a mid week clean of the tank glass with a toothbrush.
Pulled out the moss ball that was a nice home for the hair algae.
Cleared all the trimmings
Siphoned out some water and some particles that were flowing around from the substrate. Total water removed 20-30%
Re-introduced the Purigen into the filter (I know its supposed to remove nitrogenous organic waste from the water, which leads to Amonia etc) which has been out for 4 weeks.
Removed the FrogBit and lots of snails
Added in today's dose of Benibachi Beemax.
Will add some banana leaves shortly
Am thinking, but would like some input that I would do another 20% water change tomorrow?

BTW After all of that I did another Ammonia test to find the colour was 0ppm.
So I conclude a couple of things, in the order of belief.

The test kit is a little unreliable - I have Clive to thank for this one.
I managed to contain the situation in 15mins flat like the shrimp super hero I am. <cough> <splutter>
But something has gone on that has triggered the hair algae.

All thoughts, tips and recommendations very welcome.
Cheers
Roland


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## dw1305 (28 Nov 2013)

Hi all





RolyMo said:


> I have cut some of the plants back
> Do a mid week clean of the tank glass with a toothbrush.
> Pulled out the moss ball that was a nice home for the hair algae.
> Cleared all the trimmings Siphoned out some water and some particles that were flowing around from the substrate. Total water removed 20-30%
> ...


First thing to say is that you definitely don't have 2ppm NH3, but if we then worked from the scenario that you did have some ammonia, you need to look at the actions you took, and try and think of the rationale for them, and whether they are likely to improve things, or actually make them worse.

First thing is that the source of the ammonia is almost entirely from your livestock. Ammonia, (from the metabolism of proteins), is diffusing constantly from the gills of fish, shrimps and snails. Because fixed nitrogen is a scarce resource in natural ecosystems, this NH3 is eagerly scavenged by plants and microbes. Ammonia levels can only build up if there aren't appropriate bacteria or plants, or if oxygen levels are too low to allow for the microbial oxidation of NH3. Because NH3 is toxic to nearly all organisms at quite low levels, if we have a situation where it can build up, we rapidly get into a positive feed-back loop where higher NH3 levels can deplete oxygen and cause death, and decay then leads to higher NH3 levels, further depleting oxygen etc. Because of this requirement for oxygen, scientists use the BOD (Biochemical Oxygen Demand) as the measure of how polluted a water sample is.


"_I have cut the plants back_" likely to make things worse in the short term as plants both produce oxygen and take up NH3. If the plants grow back strongly they may then take up more NH3, but it isn't likely to be a significant difference.
"_Do a mid week clean of the tank glass with a toothbrush._" No real effect.
"_Pulled out the moss ball that was a nice home for the hair algae._" Assuming that this was a "marimo" ball? then it is a "green algae" itself, and conditions favourable for it will also be favourable to the closely related hair algae.
"_Cleared all the trimmings Siphoned out some water and some particles that were flowing around from the substrate. Total water removed 20-30%_". If pollution is suspected water changes are always a good idea.
"_Re-introduced the Purigen into the filter (I know its supposed to remove nitrogenous organic waste from the water, which leads to Amonia etc) which has been out for 4 weeks._" The organic compounds that Purigen removes have little capacity for pollution (they are mainly carbon based), but if the Purigen slows the flow of water through the filter it will limit the amount of dissolved oxygen reaching the filter media.
"_Removed the FrogBit and lots of snails_" If the Frogbit was growing, and because it has access to atmospheric CO2, it has the capacity to remove *a lot ammonia from the water*, it also offer some shade that may reduce algal growth. I'm a great fan of floaters or emergents, and I have them on all my tanks. Removing some snails lowers the bioload, and reduces NH3 production.
"_Added in today's dose of Benibachi Beemax_." Probably no effect.
"_Will add some banana leaves shortly_". Same again.
cheers Darrel


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## RolyMo (28 Nov 2013)

Darrel
Awesome lesson. Thank you.
I will add some Frogbit back from my main fish tank.
It sounds like at the end of the day this was a case of test kit accuracy issue. With a false initial reading and me over reacting on that one.
Also liked your comments on the clarifying why I had Frogbit in the tank.

Always learning.
Cheers
Roland


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## dw1305 (28 Nov 2013)

Hi all,


RolyMo said:


> It sounds like at the end of the day this was a case of test kit accuracy issue.


You don't need a test kit for ammonia, if you have enough of it to be toxic, you will know. Ammonia is actually quite hard to test for, mainly because it is a dissolved gas. We struggle in the lab., even with an ion selective electrode.

It is pretty hard in a planted tank to get ammonia toxicity. I've never tried deliberately to raise ammonia levels using an ammonia based fertiliser like ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4), but my suspicion would be that you would need quite a lot of it in a planted tank to cause the death of the livestock.

People who keep huge carnivorous fish in an inadequate volumes of water, with a canister filter, no substrate and no plants have every chance of poisoning their fish, but for us it isn't really an issue.

cheers Darrel


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## RolyMo (29 Nov 2013)

Ahhh
Ok That is a big help.
Thanks Darrel


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## RolyMo (19 Dec 2013)

New phone, new pictures. 
All shrimp seem to be healthy. 

















R


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## Lindy (19 Dec 2013)

Nice shrimp!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## RolyMo (12 Jan 2014)

Happy New Year to all on UKAPS. Hope you had a lovely relaxing Christmas break and NYE celebrations.
I know this year I hardly had to entertain instead being invited to everyone else's houses which has not been conducive of posting on the forum.

I have been lurking on the forum but I thought I would do my first post of 2014. 

My first CRS shrimp tank is still going great guns. The shrimp all seem happy. I have seen the results of moulting so I am pleased with that. But I have not seen any shrimp berried, but then I understand that winter is not an ideal breeding season.

I have over the past 2-3 Months been seeing hair algae building up, most attaching the various types of moss in the tank. I removed the moss ball a while back just to create some floor space for the shrimp as the tank is heavily planted with plants, mosses and the wood.

I did look at the algae articles and got a little confused as to what to do to eliminate the hair algae.

The James C article linked in this forum says it is trigger due to low CO2 (check its a low tech tank), low nutrients (well I don't add additional nutrients), or Ammonia spike (hmmm not sure that is true after the last experience).

I am a couple of times a week using a tooth brush to remove the hair algae by twisting it around the brush.

Lights (0.5watts/litre) are on 11hrs a day.
I syphon off 20% water and replace with RO water with Salty Shrimp bee minerals.

Thoughts are to reduce the lights on time by a couple of hours, and perhaps add some EI nutrients

Any tips to get rid of this algae?

Today I did a bigger water change of approx 40% after doing some trimming of moss and plants.
Cheers
R


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## Lindy (12 Jan 2014)

I'd reduce your light. My 2 tanks are lit for 6 and 8 hours.

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## aliclarke86 (13 Jan 2014)

I only have 5 hour lights on mine  I'm sure I could up it a bit but its in the kitchen and the lights are on in there a lot anyway

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## RolyMo (23 Jan 2014)

Cheers Guys for the input.
I have reduced the time down to 8hrs to see if that reduces the problem
The tank has been moved to the living room now and sits on the same unit but is now oposite the fish tank. So the shrimp can now wave at the fish.

Incidentally I took a trip to the lfs at the weekend to get a replacement Ram for the fish tank and came back with that at 4 Chilli Rasbora's which I fell in love with. The Chilli's have been aclimatised and added the shrimp tank.
But what should you feed the Chilli Rasbora's as they are very small, and dont appear to see the normal fish food granules.

Still waiting for some shrimp to get berried. Concerned that they might die naturally before they breed.
R


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## MARKCOUSINS (23 Jan 2014)

RolyMo said:


> Cheers Guys for the input.
> I have reduced the time down to 8hrs to see if that reduces the problem
> The tank has been moved to the living room now and sits on the same unit but is now oposite the fish tank. So the shrimp can now wave at the fish.
> 
> ...


Hi,I feed my Chilli Rasbora freshly hatched brine shrimp every day.Can appreciate it is a bit of a hassle to allways have a brine shrimp hatchery on the go but my fish just go mad for them!It does improve the colour of the Chilli Rasbora too,yes they go even redder due to the brine shrimp Mine also take Tetra Pro colour(crunched up considerably!)but you can't beat live food for these little beauties!Remember to watch the TDS in the tank for your shrimp too(extra food,waste)even if they are tiny guys!Cheers Mark


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