# Sexing kribensis ?



## Nathanh2150 (14 Feb 2021)

Hi all
Below is a photo of 2 kribensis please could someone advice me on which one may be a male or female


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## John q (14 Feb 2021)

Going off the picture I'd say the yellow one is female. Darker one male possibly?
Maybe a krib keeper will confirm.


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## Hufsa (14 Feb 2021)

Top female bottom one a male 

Edit: Soon you will have 500 kribensis


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## sparkyweasel (14 Feb 2021)

Yes, female above, male below.


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## Nathanh2150 (14 Feb 2021)

If correct the male keeps chasing the female around the tank is this breeding behaviour? The female seems very shy and only comes out when I’m in front of the tank or when the male has chased her out of the plants


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## Nathanh2150 (14 Feb 2021)

Only reason I would ask is the male defend’s the cave wile the female hides all the time no where near the cave if the female passes the cave the male pushes her out the way even chasing her off they also do a stand off. I have researched online and they said males are bigger and the females are smaller and the female has more colour then the male


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## Paul27 (14 Feb 2021)

@Hufsa and @sparkyweasel are right. Easy to tell apart male will have a pointed dorsal fin and anal fin. Females are rounded. Very easy to breed fascinating how the fry follow the male and female around. In my personal opinion a underrated fish.


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## Nathanh2150 (14 Feb 2021)

Perfect thankyou and regarding my previous comment does this sound like breeding behaviour?


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## ScareCrow (15 Feb 2021)

Beautiful fish, the male is a really interesting colour morph, almost a mix of male and female P.subocellatus. Kribs are by far my favorite fish but they can be a bit problematic as it seems you are finding. It sounds like your male is ready to spawn and has found an area he thinks is suitable but your female isn't interested. In the wild there would be multiple females in the area so the aggression would be spread between them and they'd get to pair off naturally. It looks like you have cover, so hopefully she can get a bit of rest. What size is the tank? You could try putting a mirror in the tank, near where the male is defending. This should distract him from the female as he'll try to protect his territory from his reflection. The second thing you could try and I've had more success doing this, is to move the male out. Doesn't have to be anything fancy, I used a plastic storage container with a heater and filter in. This allows the female to setup her territory, you can target feed her so she can bulk up and even get her into breeding condition, then add the male back in. By then he'll be coming into her territory, so she'll have the upper hand and if she's well conditioned, she'll be more receptive to his advances.


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## Nathanh2150 (15 Feb 2021)

Hi Thankyou for your message 
I have an evolution aqua aquascaper 900 

L:900mm x W:500mm x H:450mmAquarium DimensionsTotal Volume (Nett)186 Ltrs
The two kribs are now showing signs of breeding in my aquarium looks like the male has won the attention of the female.. they have been moving substrate out of the cave they have now called home and looks like the male is defending its territory.. with the female.  They have also annoyingly started to pull up my grass in the bottom of the tank but I have been planting it elc where in the tank. Any helpful tips on what I should be doing wile they are nest building and looking to have baby’s 

many thanks


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## sparkyweasel (15 Feb 2021)

Nathanh2150 said:


> Any helpful tips on what I should be doing wile they are nest building and looking to have baby’s


You could think about what you are going to feed them with. You might need to plan on hatching baby brine shrimp, and/or getting a microworm culture going.


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## alto (15 Feb 2021)

Nathanh2150 said:


> Any helpful tips on what I should be doing wile they are nest building and looking to have baby’s


Have a backup tank available!
I’d suggest a breeding tank for the Kribs AND a plan for the fry: if you’re going to grow on the fry, then you’ll need grow out tanks for those as well - even if you find a shop to accept the juvenile fish, they need to be a decent size 

Some Krib pairs are happy to just push other fish out of their territory (though this can still be a pretty stressful life for these fish depending ...), others are much more aggressive


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## Nathanh2150 (16 Feb 2021)

Could I use a breeding cage that floats on the aquarium service? I do have a breeding tank coming which is 20ltrs but I’m having this as a breeding tank for a  pair of Apistogramma Cacatuoides DOUBLE RED


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## alto (16 Feb 2021)

Nathanh2150 said:


> breeding cage that floats on the aquarium service?


These are much too small for most fish, you can use them to hold fry as long as there’s good flow-through, but they are still only temporary re limited swimming space/high density compromises fish development (and often permanently stunts/deforms)



Nathanh2150 said:


> 20ltrs but I’m having this as a breeding tank for a pair of Apistogramma Cacatuoides DOUBLE RED


This is much too small for A cacatuoides 



> Aquarium Size​Base dimensions of 60 ∗ 30 cm or more are acceptable for a single pair with a group requiring larger quarters.




I suggest doing some research at Apistogramma.com
(there are loads of A cacatuoides specific breeding/keeping topics, as well as some more general dwarf cichlid and Apistogramma topics)
as an example





						Really want to breed some apistos. NEED HELP
					

So I just went to a lfs and they had Apistogramma cacatuoides double red. They are selling a pair for $40. I would like to breed them. My ph is around 7.8 usually and and Hard ish water. Can I breed them? I have a 20 high community tank but it has a kribensis. I also have an empty 10 gallon but...




					apistogramma.com
				




I feel like you need a different fish shop - current shop seems focused on selling you fish and not much else


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## alto (16 Feb 2021)

And an important Mike Wise statement (I added the bold but couldn’t get the larger text option to stick - this statement really is worthy of a SHOUT)



> *Don't mix apistos and Kribs. Their aggression/submission signals are virtually opposite of each other*


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## ScareCrow (16 Feb 2021)

Forget the Apistos and stick with the kribs, kribs are the best (that's just my opinion and I'm very biased). Apistogramma certainly have a very devoted and larger following than I've been able to find for kribs. While there aren't as many varieties of kribs available, those that are tend to be hardier and tolerant of a wider range of water parameters than many Apistogramma species (A. Cacatuoides is one of the hardier Apistos though). In addition to the info alto linked to about Apistos, there is some info about kribs (and other dwarf cichlids including Apistos) in the links below. In summary kribs are the best just keep kribs!
The Krib (Aquaria and Tropical Fish)
This also gives some information about the different varieties of kribs available (although there are more than are listed there).
Keeping the Kribensis Cichlid | Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine


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## Nathanh2150 (17 Feb 2021)

I’m thinking of selling my kribs as when I got home from work they have truly pulled up all the grass from the substrate and digging holes in the substrate I don’t want to see them go but it’s just not fair on them and the other fish in the tank as there getting territorial. Currently In two minds on what to do 

any suggestions would be kindly appreciated 🙂


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## alto (17 Feb 2021)

Nathanh2150 said:


> truly pulled up all the grass from the substrate and digging holes in the substrate


typical Krib spawning behaviour 

Many fish will rearrange their environment to suit, so do your research before selecting your next fish


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## ScareCrow (17 Feb 2021)

Most of the dwarf cichlids that I can think of (cave spawning or not) will all do some level of excavation, if you'll excuse the pun. Apistogramma Cacatuoides that you mention certainly will. You can persuade the kribs to move to another area. I normally setup caves for them, to guide them to areas where I can view their behaviour but where they're not exposed, so they're not stressed by being out in the open. All they need is a cave with an opening just big enough for them to fit through. Once you've given them an alternative cave, you could remove what ever they're digging under curently, or put something like a stone in their way temporarily. Hopefully they'll then go in search of somewhere new, which if all goes well, will be the cave you made for them.


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## shangman (17 Feb 2021)

Do the fish have enough hiding places or places to spawn? Like hardscaped caves, coconut shells, big piles of leaves, seedpods (my apistos bred in seedpods I think from blackwater UK, the female would routinely go into each one checking which was best like Goldilocks)? I made sure I had a lot of those kinds of places for them to choose from when being so they never had to do anything extra. My female chose a seedpod in the back of the tank and I never disturbed it even tho I would've liked to see inside. If you want a slightly less extreme cichlid then maybe they are better for you than the kribs. My apistos do minor rescaping by sifting sand to eat, making mini dunes and getting it all over my lower plants, it made me realise I should have more sand in the tank for them to interact with.

Personally I think it's kinda cool that the kribs are making the environment better for them, I would just go with it and replant the grass in a few days when they've settled down in an area away from them that still looks nice and rescape with their changes in mind, ultimately the tank is their home, and they're doing their natural behaviour for you to see so try to think of it as something positive rather than negative, it sounds v fascinating to me!

If the other fish are getting harassed too much then maybe it is a good change, especially with that male apisto in there (personally I would give back him or the kribs they are a bad match together). It would be good to see a photo of the tank, maybe you can do some changes to make more defined territory for the fish shop they calm down a bit.


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## aquascape1987 (17 Feb 2021)

About a month ago, I was devastated to have to give my two Kribs back to my local fish shop, after a year of owning them 😩. This was due to their aggressive breeding behaviour ruining the tranquility of my aquarium and causing a steady stream of mass suicides in the other fish from the open top tank.

As others have suggested, they are prolific breeders, and when breeding they can be very aggressive to other fish. For me this resulted in them constantly chasing other fish away, very quickly around the tank. This  made the temperament of the tank very ‘on edge’ all of the time. The other fish could never relax and swim around, and were constantly huddled together in one corner of the tank.

Slowly over the year, my population decreased by about 80 percent, as I would wake up on a morning and find crusted fish on the floor at the side of the tank, who had ostensibly jumped when being chased by the kribs.

These are truly beautiful fish, perhaps some of the most colourful and beautiful tropical fish in the hobby, so i was gutted. They were in fact my favourite fish as well, but I knew that in another few months, they would have been my only fish, so I decided to re home them before I rescaped, in favour of stocking a more peaceful colony.

You may have more luck with the AS 900 being larger, and having more space (mine was a 600) but I definitely would prepare for the vibe of your whole tank to become highly strung when they are breeding (constantly). I would suggest perhaps a mesh top to prevent jumpers.

In testament to their prolific breeding, I returned my two Kribs, plus 5 juveniles that had survived from the fry stage into fully formed (albeit still small) fish.

Sorry for the tale of woe. I truly love these fish. But felt I had to tell my story of love and loss, with these beautiful fish.

The problem is, Kribs are widely sold as community fish, but in reality they can be quite aggressive and are probably best kept species only, or at the very least in a VERY selective community, and definitely in a large tank.


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## Nathanh2150 (17 Feb 2021)

Hi all,
Thankyou so much for all the comments and advice  atm I’m currently selling the two kribs as I feel as if I left them any longer in the aquarium even with hiding places ie a cave (coconut) there breeding behaviour would only be more stressful for the other fish. It sad that I have to take this decision and wish I was told this when buying the fish in the first place as I asked about 1000 questions just to make sure all would be fine but seems like they just wanted them gone... they have brought so much character to the aquarium and colour so interesting watching them do there breeding activities but it’s now time for someone elc to enjoy them as much as I have.

Many of you have mentioned  about the Apistogramma Cacatuoides DOUBLE RED  _Male + Female_  these won’t be going into my setup I have a tank just for them to breed in with coconut shells Tantora Indian Almond Leaves And substrate floating plants and some other items also will have one clean up crew that won’t be able to fit baby fry in there mouth.


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