# Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - 12 Rummy Nosed Tetras Added



## Bobtastic (3 Sep 2010)

Hi all!!

Well it's time for me to start planning my new scape! After fighting a losing battle with my original scape (240litre Journal) I'm looking to start again!

So, tank details 100hx40wx60d with a Fluval 405 filter running through a Auqa Medic 1000 reactor (without the balls) connected to a spraybar with the addition of a Hyrdo Korillia 2 and a Maxi-Jet 1000 powerheads to increase the flow. Lights are 2x 49watt T5's.

Here are some pictures of the proposed scape.













Currently sat in a box roughly the same size as the tank and in kitty litter to replicate substrate. Substrate in the tank will be ADA Malaya with sand and graded gravel in the same colours as the stones.

Plants - TBA, but planning the usual hair grass and crypts.

Please comment as I really would like feedback on how to improve the look of the scape.

Thanks for reading!


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## Krishs Bettas (3 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Looking good! I really like the rockwork.


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## fluffiebugie (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I think that looks spot on, looking forward to seeing this develop.


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## Bobtastic (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Am I able to use some ot thecat litter bolster up the rockwork? If not I'll have to get some more Aquasoil or other brand. 

I defo don't have enough ATM.


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## Bobtastic (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I also have this rock too. Would it looke better than the one currently on the left?





Tho I do think it's a little triangular...


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## Lisa_Perry75 (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I do really like that rockwork! What type of rock is it?


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## Bobtastic (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Can any one tell me if there is a difference between the different ADA AquaSoils? I currently have Malaya, but I recently read somewhere that is has a lower nutrional content then some of the others? Would I be ok with what I have? Should I replace it with a different type, possibly Amazonia or something else (NatureSoil)? Also would I be alright mixing the different substrates?


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

With aqua soil's:
Malaya - average nutrient base, nice colour, good for maintaining an aqua scape for a long time, soft granules
amazonia - Not the nicest colour, very high nutrient base, everything is geared solely towards plant growth
africana - it has low nutrient's, easy to handle (hard baked), nice colour

Amazonia is solely for plant growth, and you tend to cover it up with carpet plant's and moss, the other to are less geared towards growing plant's and more toward's aesthetic's (looking nice), they are still good for plant's and will last much longer than amazonia, but do not have the same initial growth boost that amazonia has. And stay away from all mark II soils as they cloud your tank, and don't make much difference to the water PH. Apparently I have never used them, I was going to then was warned about them and have just cancelled my order!  
If you are worried about the Malaya you could try using ADA power soil, which you are meant to put under your aqua soil and it is really full of nutrient's as well, if you do want to change it, that is probably the best thing to do instead of changing it all! 
Hope this help's!


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

O, and I prefer the rock's as they are, although I do love the one you are not using!


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## Bobtastic (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Thanks for the reply Oliver. I wasn't really thinking of replacing the whole lot, I just don't have the pennies! Tho I will need to get some more substrate to achieve what I've done above.

Below taken from - www.aquajournal.net


> Malaya - This Aqua Soil is made from somewhat yellowish brown soil. It contains the least amount of organic elements and nitrogen among the Aqua Soil series. Its ability to lower pH is the highest and it enables you to maintain acidic water quality easily



So you think I'm best getting some more Malaya and then mix in some Power Sand too?


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## Tom (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

If you are dosing EI then you probably won't need the powersand, unless you're curious like I was!


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Um, yes it is better to be safe than sorry, but don't mix it in, if you put in the power sand first, but put it like an island in the middle, so it is not touching the glass, and then put the soil over the top and around the sides, that way you won't be able to see the power sand, because if you can see 2 layer's of substrate through the glass it look's rubbish! Yes, Sorry I forgot to mention that, but if you can afford it and you are likely to miss dosing a couple of times then I would, but if you will always be dosing on time and only growing like hair grass etc. I would save my money and spend it on live stock or something! Sorry, I got the impression you were going to change the whole lot of substrate which I though was a little extravagant!!!


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## Bobtastic (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> If you are dosing EI then you probably won't need the powersand, unless you're curious like I was!



Humm... it's an expensive curiosity... I would like to see if it makes a difference but it's quite pricey! What are the differences between PS L M and S?

EDIT: Looks like it means Large, Medium and Small in relation to the tanks depth... My tank is 60cms so I assume I'm best going with M? which is from 40-60cms? Would one back suit the size of my tank (100x40x60 cms)?


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## Tom (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I reckon one bag is fine - you only want a very thin layer


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Yes, it is not a necessity, but 1 pack would be fine, it just would encourage the root's to grow quicker and give you some leeway on your fert dosing


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## Bobtastic (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Kewl, thanks for the responses guys! Muchos helpful! I'll have to see whether I can convince myself a point of purchase whether its worth it! I do have a habit of talking myself out of things!


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

OK then, I will say if you are going to be reliable with the fert's it is not necessary, especially with the plant's you hope to grow but if you do get it then you have the option to grow certain plant's


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## andyh (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Hey Bob

I have used it on several tanks and powersand special is expensive but worth it in my opinion. I run Amazonia and powersand special and dose EI.

Regards
Andyh


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

What do you grow? Because that sound's like lot of nutrient's!!! I am considering using power sand, purely because I have not got enough Amazonia by 1 litre, what tank do you use it in?


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## Bobtastic (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

All this talk of substrates has diverted away from my desire for feedback on the initial scape idea. Does anyone else have an opinion on it. I really would like some constructive crit if I can!


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## Jase (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> All this talk of substrates has diverted away from my desire for feedback on the initial scape idea. Does anyone else have an opinion on it. I really would like some constructive crit if I can!



I think the rear right hand rock needs to point upwards, like the two main rocks, other than that I think it looks good


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## andyh (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Hey Bob

My main comments/observations is that a number of the low down stones may get lost once the scape is planted/fully grow. Its just something worth considering as i have had a number scapes were the rocks have been lost due to healthy plant growth.

Andy


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## Bobtastic (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Lol, I hope that's a risk! I see what u mean tho. The two at either end of the scape and towards the front will probably mark the edge of the planted area tho.


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## Bobtastic (8 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Ok, thoughts today have turned to plant selection. Here is a short list of plant that I'm thinking of :-

*Background:*
Rotala 
Blyxa
Crypts: Balansae, Wendtii "Green"

*Mid-Foreground:*
Staurogyne sp.
Eleocharis Acicularis
Glossostigma elatinoides or Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
Pogostemon Helferi

I also have Hydrocotyle verticillata, Micranthemum umbrosum and some Java Fern atm so I'm sure that I'll work them in somewhere!

Thoughts, recommendations and criticism most welcome!


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## Bobtastic (9 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

So I was playing around with the stones tonight and came up with a couple of different ideas and here they are :-





and





Verses the original :-





Which one do my learned peers prefer?!


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## Dan Crawford (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

The original for me :0)


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## chump54 (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

me too, looks more natural.

Chris


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## Tom (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Original


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## Jase (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

The second would be good with the addition of more, smaller rocks around the larger two. Think saintly's MA shop tank with stems behind. viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6787&start=160

However, as you're going for Dullagumi  :silent: *takes cover* the original is a good example of the typical style


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## Bobtastic (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Jase said:
			
		

> Dullagumi  :silent: *takes cover*



How very dare you!


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## Jase (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Jase said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

Obviously no offence meant to yourself or other Iwagumi-ers. I appreciate they are an art form, I just think they lack the interest to the eye that a NA scape does


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## Bobtastic (11 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Would there be any benefit to using cat litter as an under substrate? I'm obvioulsy using ADA Malaya (I've been to TGM today and gotten an additional 12litres to what i have atm), but is there any benefit to using cat litter as a kind of Power Sand?


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Preperations continue...

Here is a proposed planting plan :






#1 - Eleocharis Acicularis
#2 - Pogostemon Helferi
#3 - Staurogyne sp.
#4 - Mixed Crypt (Wendtii "Green")
#5/6 - Rotala, Blyxa, Crypt Balansae and probably a Java Fern.

With the blank area as graded gravel and sand.

Comments, criticisms and observations most welcome!


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## Anonymous (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Try this:

#1 - Eleocharis Parvula, Acicularis grows kinda tall for foreground, hemianthus callitrichoides looks neat too infront of Staurogyne sp. 
#2-3 - Staurogyne sp. or Pogostemon Helferi (try not to mix them)
#4 - Crypt Wendtii "Green" - a good choice (doesn't grow that tall).
#5/6 - Only Rotala (you can mix a bunch of rotalas here like rotundifolia, indica, macrandra green, mini).

Aim for simplicity to make a visual impact.
Looks nice already! 

Good luck,
Mike


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I already have some Crypt Balansae so will be using that in the back left corner. Hoping that it will look good waving over the top of the Rotala.

Would you suggest one or the other in the scape with the Staurogyne sp. and Pogostemon Helferi?


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## Anonymous (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

You can put both Staurogyne sp. and Pogostemon Helferi and keep the one you like most .


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## chuppy (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Here's my honest opinion... *raises shield as a newbie in UKAPS*  

just IMHO, 
THere's isnt much harmony there in the rockwork.. just saying. too far apart from one another..
Needs some solid accompanying rocks.. 
Needs some solid slope action..

 Perhaps it'll look better with plants filled in.. so... But that's just me    

Hope you don't mind my comment though. It's just what I felt .

Drew


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## Bobtastic (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Nope, comments and criticism most welcome! Still very much in the planning stage so nothing set in stone (badum tissh).

Can you try to explain what you mean? Any visual examples would be extremely helpful too!


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## chuppy (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

These are several tanks from the landscaping contests in the ADA Party Malaysia last year.. Not the best of pictures.. lighting was very BAD.






this one in particular.. In all due respect to the Scaper. was rather loose.. hence not forming a solid 'feel' to the rockwork.





this one. at least has some backbone to the entire scape.



The champ and the runner ups for that competition were these scapes..



1st runner up..  THough not exactly an iwagumi.. but it's what we like to call as iwa-woody lol.




The champ of the scaping contest.. My personal tank. got myself an ADA 60P for it   (not to brag and all)

And all that was from this pile of rocks/wood




Another one of my 'play tanks'



failed to start up though.. this one was done in one of my early years.. still very new to the scene but I like the rockwork..

Hope this knocks some ideas into you lol... Feeling the 'flow' yet?   

Sorry mods and admins for the thread hijack.

Drew


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## Bobtastic (18 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Not sure about the size of the tanks in those picture but I don't think mine is that big!

Here is another scape attempt.





Here's anotther alternative :-


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## chuppy (18 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Those competition ones were 90cm x 45cm x 45cm..

Hmmm.. Still need more rocks of various sizes IMHO..  The rocks on the right are too similar IMHO..

Drew


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## Bobtastic (18 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

In the original scape the rock on the right is pretty much the largest rock I've got. So if that's too small there's not much I can do...


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## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Some more scape ideas :-


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## nayr88 (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

this last one is the one! i really like it, its gotsta be this one.


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## Tom (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

The last one is great... maybe tilt the far left one or two in a bit more?


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## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Tilt them toward the centre?


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## Mark Evans (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

i'd suggest, before you getting carried away with positioning. do you have plans for what plants you might want to use? this_ will_ change everything.


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## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Plant list is on page 3 and here it is! 

Background:
Rotala 
Blyxa
Crypts: Balansae, Wendtii "Green"

Mid-Foreground:
Staurogyne sp.
Eleocharis Acicularis
Glossostigma elatinoides or Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
Pogostemon Helferi

I also have Hydrocotyle verticillata, Micranthemum umbrosum and some Java Fern atm so I'm sure that I'll work them in somewhere!


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## jay (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Really nice original stones. Like the original layout, maybe bring the two main stones together? And even swapped them so the largest is near the middle of the tank. Just to see how it'll look.


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## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Oooh.. that's an idea Jay. I must admit there is something about the last layout that just doesn't sit right with me...

Mark, would the listed plants (in your opinion) work with most of the layout?


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## Mark Evans (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I still think the principles of Iwagumi should be followed. Of course any layout could look good, but with such a varied mixture of plants, stone placement is vital to a successful layout.


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## Mark Evans (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

doh! double post. give me a sec


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## Mark Evans (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

OK.

your plant choice is bold! but good.

positioning is where it could make or break. 

what I'd suggest....if you want those plants, think about where they maybe placed a bit different. 

e.g...



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Background:
> Rotala
> Blyxa
> Crypts: Balansae, Wendtii "Green"



wendeti green, can grow shorter than most, so maybe mid ground
blyxa, a midground plant usualy.
rotala, stays in the back! 
balansae, IMO would ruin it. 



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Staurogyne sp.
> Eleocharis Acicularis
> Glossostigma elatinoides or Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'
> Pogostemon Helferi



A good mixture of plants, but use some to accent areas. acicularis can be made into a focal point or just to accent areas. 

glosso, foreground

pogostomon, treat like tenelus, and plant around stones maybe. 

staurogyne, again, to highlight areas. 

youve got the makings of a classic iwagumi, so I'd be tempted to simplify the plant species...glosso, grass, blyxa (to replace tenellus) crypts would give a sense of 'wild'

google the master, 'amano' and check out his works...all should become clear. 

too much vodka, makes me vague   and I'm struggling to find the keys.


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## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Thanks Mark! I put a proposed planting plan on page #4. I was suggest that I swap Eleocharis Acicularis for Eleocharis Parvula as it would grow shorter (forgot to change it on the above post :s). I think I've decided again the Gloss and the HC as the would defo highlight any failings in flow...

I wanting to use balansae as I currently have some growing in the tanks current encarnation... The plan wasy to have it growing out the top of the Rotala.


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## jay (19 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Balansae really is a more jungle scape plant, although I've sen Amano use it in an iwagumi to awesome effect in Nature Book 1. With river stones.


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## Bobtastic (20 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

How about this one?


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## chuppy (20 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

seems like you're getting it. tighten the rockwork and have it placed at the golden section. should look better.

Drew


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## Bobtastic (21 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

This is the above scape with a re-tweek. Moved slightly the the left and the rock work tighter together.





As much as it pains me I'm getting a little tired of re-rescaping!   

I might revisit the original scape and giving a few tweeks.


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## Mark Evans (21 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> As much as it pains me I'm getting a little tired of re-rescaping!



It can become a pain! I remember when I first stone arranging, it became a real headache. eventually though, things become clear, and you shall become good at it. 

Remember this! theirs no right or wrong arrangement. It may not sit right with the rules of iwagumi, but at the end of the day, if it pleases you then all must be good right?   

you wont hit the 'right' arrangement first time....fact! However, and after 10 arrangements, it's still not right, but it will be better than the last.


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## Bobtastic (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Thanks for the encouragement Mark! If I'm sick of it already I can only imagine how you lot feel after I inflict each new attempt everyone!

I like to think that my attempts are improving... All I know it the the misses likes the latest attempt! Which is at least one thumbsup!


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## chuppy (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I agreew with mark. If you like it. then it'll work out. Since you're the owner anyway.

Drew


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## NeilW (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

don't know if you've come across this?
http://www.aquajournal.net/na/iwagumi/index.html

this is good too as its an explanation of how you can approach it;
http://www.aquajournal.net/room/iwagumi_philosophy.html

Obviously these are only Amano guidelines but thought they may be helpful


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## Bobtastic (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Yeah, I've been having a look at them and browsing the internet at large for inspiration. I must admit that I feel I have limitations from the size/dimensions of my tank, which is unusual by regular plants/aquascaped tanks (It's quite tall for its length). Also the sizes and shapes of the rocks I have. When I got them I just chose them at random, as they were scavenged from the wild rather than purchased from a shop. These two thing couple with my creativity (or lack there of) equals the results we see here.

I must admit that I don't really understand most of the "principals" of iwagumi or the "Golden Ration" for that matter!


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## NeilW (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I must admit that I don't really understand most of the "principals" of iwagumi or the "Golden Ration" for that matter!



The 'principles' of Iwagumi are either observations by Amano of rock formations in nature or rules that were laid down in Buddhism that were adapted by him.  Sometimes the Buddhist 'rules' are more symbolic and less naturalistic like 'this stone is a tortoise, this stone is a representation of a Buddha, this gravel is the sea' or can also be a more stylised version of nature so Amano bought these down to earth to agree with his Nature Aquarium ethos.   

Simply put The Golden Ratio was something the philosophers of Greece found out from calculations that coincidently compositions in nature normally lie in proportions of roughly thirds or a ratio of 1:618.  They then went mad for it and used it to work out proportions for architecture, statues etc because it was the 'ideal'.  For us lot this means if you whack a rock a third of the way across the tank its meant to look more natural then if you put it in the middle.  

All these 'rules' though wether Japanese or Greek were cultural things and observations so feel free to make your own observations too and not feel intimidated that you must do something that agrees with the 'principles of Iwagumi' or whatever.

My favourite tanks with rock formations normally ignore the rules to some degree for example this composition by Oliver Knott;




Centralised, no clear focal point (for me anyways) but it just works as it looks like something we would see in nature as a formation.

As for tank dimensions you can always use that as a limitation to fuel creativity as you then have some constraints to work with.  My only setup is a nano that has unusual proportions but part of the fun was working how it would all fit in.  My layout breaks the rules too as your meant to use odd numbers of rocks whilst I only have two obvious main rocks and four rocks in total.  The main stone is positioned to roughly a third but then it sticks out above the waterline.  Despite these things it agrees with my experience of nature and therefore looks 'right' to me.

By ignoring the rules to some degree you can create something unique to you.


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## Bobtastic (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Thanks for the reply Neil! It's helped me get my head around things. 

It difficult to get the full feeling of the scapes I've being toying with though photos, that and the fact that they are just placed in cat litter atm without any of the graded gravel doesn't help their look. Plus everything will look a lot different when the plants go in. 

I'm definitely getting close to transferring "something" into the tank proper! hehe


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## NeilW (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

No worries.  I just don't like seeing people feeling bad about what they've created when it should be about chilling and having some fun with it.  For me creating a layout is my favourite part!  If you don't get it first time then sometimes its best to step back from it and try and work out the 'prettiest' side of the best stone and work from that.  What Amano, some Buddhist monks and an ancient Greek have to say should only be helpful, not something that should put you off.

TBH I've never done trial layouts with sand or whatever as I think I would be disappointed if I couldn't recreate the same thing for real in the tank,  although I've roughly sketched stuff out or had a strong idea in my head to begin with.  Just a warning though that I read somewhere here before that its bad idea to keep moving big rocks around in Aqua Soil as it can break it down to mud when you put the water in!

Keep up the good work,
Neil


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## Bobtastic (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

It's ok. I'm currently using cat litter to trial my setups.


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## NeilW (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I think if I used cat litter it would get used for its original purpose


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## Bobtastic (22 Sep 2010)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Lol it will do once the tank is up and running!


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## Bobtastic (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Ok... so after approx. 6months of organisation or "procrastination" I have started the strip down of my original scape. This in itself through up some more challenges... Such as how do you separate over 15litres of ADA Malaya and cap sand...

My current attempt method is to syphon the cap sand off into a separate container, trying to leave as much aquasoil behind as I can. I'll then try to dry out the sand/AS mix and sieve it apart!

What in ppls experience is the easiest way to dry out sand/soil mixes? Mine is currently sat next to a radiator...


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## Tom (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Spread it out thinly on a tray and leave it somewhere warm


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## Bobtastic (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Yeah, that's a good idea, but I have a lot of it. Also a 5year old boy that likes to touch. Not to mention the the cat! I don't want him to add any extra personalised "substrates" in there!


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## Johno2090 (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I found it easier to sieve my sand whilst still in the water, makes it muddy but the sand falls through and the soil remains in the sieve. Worked for me anyhow! Good luck


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## Bobtastic (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Oh, ok. I do like the sound of that. It's a little more immediate. Did you have any problems with the AS crumbling or breaking up whilst you were doing that?


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## Johno2090 (21 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Not really it was a cheap sieve from tesco if that helps, was pretty fine meshed! Try it with a small portion first and see how it works for you.


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## Bobtastic (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I went and got myself a cheap value sieve from Tesco and started sieving! I must say that the results were good, though a lot of hard work. Unfortunately the sieves grade was a little too small for best result as a portion of the sand was not passing through. 

So I took a spoon in hand and scooped out as much AS as I could. May see if I can find a larger grade sieve, but I'm not confident that my local shops will stock anything different.


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## Bobtastic (24 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Ok, so for the most part the AS and sand is now separated! And what fun it was too....! During the process of the sieving I seem to have three definite and distinctly different elements. I obviously have the AS, and I have the sand, but I also have what can only be described as "brown sludge". I'm assuming that this sludge is a mix of fine sand particles and broken down AS, but what I want to know is, is it any use to me? Or am I best just getting rid of it?


----------



## Bobtastic (24 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Here's the beginnings of the new hardscape :-





Still work to do. Tweeks and possibly more rock and a change to the gradient but we're officially underway!

EDIT : And introducing the final hardscape!





Thoughts and comments, as always, very welcome!


----------



## Bobtastic (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Sorry for the bump, but I would really like some feed back on this scape.


----------



## Tom (28 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Sorry for the bump, but I would really like some feed back on this scape.



I think you will find that the rocks might be a bit small once the plants are grown in. It might also help the depth and perspective of the layout to place some rocks towards the front and back of the tank rather than in a straight line. Otherwise it might look quite 'flat'. 

Do you have any more soil? A higher slope can also help with the perspective and depth of a layout - in your case either a mount in the middle, or more of a slope up to the back left corner. 

Hope that helps


----------



## Anonymous (30 Mar 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

nice rock work bud am looking forward to seeing it planted


----------



## Bobtastic (18 Apr 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> EDIT : And introducing the final hardscape!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, so I've descided that this is going to be my hardscape and that I'm going for a heavily hair grassed foreground, with crypts in and arround the rocks. But I need some suggestions on background plants.

Spec - 

2x 49watt T5's
Fluval 405 filter 
Eheim 2078 Pro3e
Hydor ETH 300
Pressurised Co2 through an AM1000 reactor

Filters will be through spray bars the full length of the tank, and hoping that they will be enough not to use either my Korillia 2 or the Maxi-jet 1000 power heads I have.


----------



## Bobtastic (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Still looking for suggestions on suitable background plants. 

But also woul like to know if someone could tell me if my intended spraybar/inlet configuration would work and is the best way to set them up.





Info :- The Eheim 2078 will be run through an AM1000 Co2 reactor and the Fluval 405 will be run through a Hydor ETH 300 heater.


----------



## Stu Worrall (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

hi bob

like the rockscape and the layout of the inlet/outlets looks fine and youll get good distribution around the tank. 

I'd echo what has been said about the stones though.  If you go for grass then the two stones on the right will disappear in the lawn in no time unless youre keeping it super low.  Have you got any bigger stones you can buy or raise them up in the soil slightly?  They'll look odd for a while sticking out but the end results will look better.


----------



## Bobtastic (3 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

So I got my hands on a couple of lengths of acrylic tubing, it's a little narrower than I would like but as I got it for free I can't really complain!

Here is the results my first attempt at bending it myself, I packed it with table salt to help keep the internal structure.











As we can in picture two that the in tank 90degree turn wasn't a huge success... I've put that down to expansion in the pipe from the first two bends, which meant that there was room for the salt to move in the pipe. This could be over come by adding more salt and more compaction after each bend. Or by using a bending spring, which I think I'll use next time!


----------



## a1Matt (4 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Even with the narrowing on one of the bends, it still looks like an impressive bit of DIY to me


----------



## Bobtastic (17 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

With the TGM visit coming up at the end of this month my mind is leaning to plants! So 

Blyxa
Crypts: Wendtii "Green" + others
Staurogyne sp.
Eleocharis Acicularis

I would like to include something like Gloss or HC, but I'm concerned that the light I have isn't enough (x2 49watt T5s). I understand that with good Co2 and ferts light becomes less of an issues so I many give it ago. Which of the 2 is the safest to try.

Also thinking of including another species of hair grass so I can get a mix of heights and blade thickness for more texture. Thoughts?


----------



## Bobtastic (20 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

So, I decided to tidy up the scape last night only to find that all the AquaSoil had solidified like cement! It was so hard that I had to use a screw driver to break it up. Not a chance I would have been able to plant into it. So.... I spent the night breaking up all the clumps into it's usual granules. Rocks are out again so I may end up with a slightly different configuration next time round. 

Must remember next time to either rescape and setup straight away or let the AS to dry out.

Still looking for some comments/opinions on my plant choice.


----------



## Bobtastic (20 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Here is the reconstructed scape.


----------



## Bobtastic (21 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Wasn't happy with the way it was.


----------



## Bobtastic (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Ok! So I'm heading over to TGM on Saturday for the meetup and really could do with some plant advice and scape reassurances! 

The plants I'm thinking of atm are (as listed above) :-

Blyxa
Crypts: Wendtii "Green" + others
Staurogyne sp.
Eleocharis Acicularis

I'm aiming for a lovely grassy lawn around the front, with some textures around the rocks in the form of the Staurogyne and Crypts and so longer "grassly" plants in the background. 

I am also toying with the idea of a HC "path" coming down from the back between the rock formations.


----------



## andyh (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Bob

I will help you spend your money at TGM, i always spend a fortune there!

All lovely plants, i have them all in my lounge tank, apart from the Acicularis instead i have Parvula (very similar)

The wendtii is a great plant espcially the brown, mixed in amognst the staurogyne.

See you saturday

Andy


----------



## Bobtastic (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

I get confused between Acicularis and Parvula... I can never remember which ones has the thin leaves/blades.


----------



## Stu Worrall (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

get parvula if its for the front as it grows lower than the acicularis.  Take a look at my latest 90cm journal for the acicularis where its in the back of the tank and regualrly touches the surface if i dont trim it enough!


----------



## Bobtastic (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Thanks Stu. Maybe I'll get both and have Parvula around front and some Acicularis around the back?


----------



## Stu Worrall (26 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Thanks Stu. Maybe I'll get both and have Parvula around front and some Acicularis around the back?


sounds like a plan


----------



## Bobtastic (27 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

My concern is that my tank is quite tall, and I wonder whether the Acicularis will be tall enough.

Anyway, last night I made my proper spray bar. I used 20/16mm acrylic tubing which was considerably wider than the last tubing I used. I fashioned bungs for either end using dowel, masking tap and the duct tap for extra peace of mind. I think the results are fairly good, tho there was some "pinching" in the bends. Just waiting on the acrylic rod so I can seal the end.


----------



## Stu Worrall (27 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> My concern is that my tank is quite tall, and I wonder whether the Acicularis will be tall enough.


 try some Cyperus helferi or Vallisneria nana for extra height 

tubes looks great


----------



## andyh (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Bob and Girlfriend/Wife/mistress/lady friend...     (delete as appropriate, sorry cant remember you name  )

Great to meet you both!

So what did you end up buying? i left as you two were mid shop!

Come on!

Andy


----------



## Bobtastic (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Well Mr Andy it was great to meet you and all the others! 

Sophie (mistress  lady girlfriend of mine) and I ended up going for 6 pots of Tellenus, 2 pots of HC (as that's all they had in) and 2 pots of Pogostemon. Tank was plumbed in, which I'd wished I'd sorted out b4 hand! and the scape is all planed up! The six pots was plenty for the Tellenus but I need to get a few more posts of HC. Unfortunately TGM didnt have any Staurogyne.. so will have to get them when they get there next order or form another source...

Here's a quick pic from my phone (if someone can tell my how it embed movies that would be helpful):




And a video showing the flow from the spray bars, top one is my diy attempt of bending acrylic.


I'm now trying to get my head round setting up pre-mixed EI ferts... From the caluclator on FSO the mix in a 500ml bottle, I have a couple of TPN+ bottles saved won't last me very long... Which doesn't seem quite right.


----------



## hotweldfire (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

What's your phone?


----------



## Bobtastic (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*



			
				hotweldfire said:
			
		

> What's your phone?


HTC Google Nexus One.


----------



## hotweldfire (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Hmm ... this should be a doddle. Go to your gallery, select videos, press and hold on the video and select share, you should get a bunch of options like mail etc, one of which is youtube. If you select this you should be able to upload it. I know there are some issues with HTC phones and video (I have one but haven't tried this) as they use some weird proprietary format. Give it a go and see what happens. Alternatively the folder they're in should be SDcard/DCIM/100Media or something like that. You could drag them over to your pc using my computer. However, I read somewhere you have to do some weird crap because of the file format to allow other devices to read the video.


----------



## Bobtastic (29 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Well, I've taken the video and uploaded it to Photobucket and it runs fine on the web. I've liked the movie in the post with the tank shot so if you click on the spray bar image it takes you to the video, but it isn't embedded into the post. It's not important.


----------



## andyh (30 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Its looking good dude! You wont regret the Tennelus, its a cracking plant once its pruned a few times it comes back nice and compact  

Your gonna need a fair few pots of HC to fill your valley! but it should look great once grown in


----------



## Bobtastic (30 May 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

At the moment I've left the tellenus long to try and help it settle in. But if noticed a couple of blades have some algae on them... It's far to early for it to have grown since planting...

Am I alright giving it a trim this early? I want to keep it shorter at the front but obviously want to remove any contamination as early as possible!

Just realised that I'm not gonna be able to order any new plants just yet. I'm going camping at the weekend so wont be around to take delivery and/or plant them...

Also atm I'm following the EI mix strategy from FluidSensorOnline which is the same as that suggested by The CEG, but it seems like an awful lot... In my last attempt I was using a DIY TPN+ mix and I didn't use as much ferts per 500ml and didn't dose as much per day. I am currently dosing 120ml of Macro (15g KNO3 + 3.8g KH2PO4 + 37g MgSO4 into 500ml) and 120ml of Trace (3.9g of trace mix into 500ml) on consecutive days with a 2day rest b4 a water change. I guess I'm just looking for a little reassurance that I'm doing it right.


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Carried you some trimage to shorten the tellenus at the from and get rid of the free algae that was on the longer blades at the back. Also did a 50%(+) water change so that I could clean up the cats "deposit" behind the tank... It was probably a good idea to do it anyway and gave me the motivation.


----------



## Stu Worrall (1 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

hi bob, good to mee you and your other half at TGM 

Re the tennelus with the algae I tend to cut mine off at the point it gets algae in a new scape.  Not sure on the EI sorry as I dont do it but I did look at the figures on fluidsensor and they looked like huge amounts to be adding on my 90cm compared to what I put in at the moment with TPN.  I wouldnt know how they could squash that amount of salts/ferts into the bottle!

The other thing is the water changes.  With a new scape I tend to be doing 50% every two days for the first two weeks becuase of the ammonia leak from the substrate and to take out any debris from any melting new plants.  Im not sure how often you're doing yours and whether EI would change this?  Maybe someone who knows more about EI will be along to advise.


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

Hi Stu, it was great to meet you! Shame you had to leave early. 

I was beginning to feel a bit left out. My journal doesn't seem to get very much traffic... Probably because of 8pages of inactivity. 

I must admit I am very new to EI so not sure how water changes affect the dosing. I erred on the side of caution and added half of the recommended dose (120ml) after the water change and then the other half the following morning. Maybe I'll start a new thread asking about FSOnlines numbers and how water changes at the start of a scape affect EI. I have a feeling that you would just start the EI cycle again until next water change.


----------



## Stu Worrall (1 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

hmm, thats interesting then.  If the numbers are correct then technically you are underdosing at the moment so there could be one problem cause.  

Cant tell from the picture if the tennelus is in the emmersed or immersed form so it could be that they are just converting to underwater living.

How often are you doing a water change at the moment?  It woud be a good idea to start another thread on the fluidsensor EI levels and also what water change regime to go for when using EI as its something id be interested in looking at as I was thinking of going over to it with my 90cm.


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape*

All the plants in this scape were bought from the TGM last Saturday. The Tennellus was kept/bought immersed and was quite long (8-9cm tall). I commented at the time, to Andyh I think, that there was algae growing on it but was assured it was just detritus. It's not a problem cos I've just trimmed the infected blade. The HC (2pots) was the only thing growing emmersed per planting.

I'll start the thread now.


----------



## Bobtastic (2 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I'm going away this weekend camping and I was wondering what to do with my EI dosing? Should I double dose? Can I dose macro and trace on the same day?


----------



## Bobtastic (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I noticed last night that some of the HC in the valley is melting... What is the usual cause of this?


----------



## CeeJay (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi Bob



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I'm going away this weekend camping and I was wondering what to do with my EI dosing? Should I double dose?


This will certainly do no harm   



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Can I dose macro and trace on the same day?


If you need to. I've done it before when I've had to. 
If we think about it, the general idea is to avoid mixing the Trace with the Phosphate, but there is still Phosphate in the tank the next day, unless the plants magically use it all up, which is highly unlikely when dosing EI levels of the stuff.
I leave about half an hour between the two and have never had a problem.



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I noticed last night that some of the HC in the valley is melting... What is the usual cause of this?


I don't mean to sound like a broken record but this is pointing to CO2. It will not be anything to do with your dosing. Most symptoms of underdosing start with discolouring leaves, holes in leaves, algae attack etc and it would have to be underdosed for quite a while before it fails structurally. Any structural failure is CO2 related, 99% of the time. 
If you have no livestock in there, crank it up


----------



## Bobtastic (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Thanks CeeJay, 

I have the Co2 cranked up pretty high atm, and the bubble counter is a blur! It's a bit odd as not all the HC is melting only a couple of patches. I'm now a little concerned that my flow isn't strong enough to get the Co2 to the bottom of the tank... The tank itself is fairly "deep" by normal planted aquarium standards (60cm). I think I'll up the Co2 a bit more to see if that makes a difference. 

Would it be a good idea to reduce the light time over the weekend while I'm away?


----------



## CeeJay (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi Bob.

60cm is a deep tank and it will be a mission getting the CO2 down there. You could try and switch the gas on earlier, in the short term, until you get your flow sorted and see if that makes a difference.
As this tank is just starting out, I would only run the lighting for 5 or 6 hours for the first few weeks. So if you're already doing that, there is no need to change anything


----------



## Bobtastic (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

If memory servers the lights are on for 5 - 5 and a half hours so it's about right. The gas comes on an hour before the lights I may get it on a little earlier. The HC was growing emmersed at TGM, would I expect any melt and then regrowth from them?

I was thinking about the light reduction for over the weekend rather than generally.


----------



## CeeJay (3 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi Bob

The fact that it may have been grown emmersed may well be part of the problem. Bear in mind it had access to unlimited CO2 (world levels @ >400ppm last time I looked   ). You've now dumped it in a tank full of water and we feed it a measly 30ppm+  and we wonder why the plants get the 'ump  . Unless your CO2 is bang on during the transition, you could well get plants failing. I'm sure it will grow back once it adapts   
I think your lighting is OK for a newly started tank so I would be inclined to leave it as it is.



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> The gas comes on an hour before the lights I may get it on a little earlier.


I switch mine on 2 hours before lights on, if that's any help   .


----------



## Bobtastic (7 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Right then, I have to order some more plants to up my biomass and get the plants that weren't available the weekend we met up at TGM. I am definitely going to get some Staurogyne sp. but I would like some suggestion for other plant that might look good in this scape.

I and originally thought of getting some Crypts: Wendtii "Green" but not sure about them... Also like the look of Blyxa. Suggestions pls!


----------



## Bobtastic (7 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I've just put an order in for 2pots of Staurogyne sp., 1pot of Crypt Wendtii "Brown" and 1pot of Blyxa Japonica. I've decided to lay off the HC for the moment to see if I can get the bits that I have in there now to service! If not I'll try for something else. Possibly Gloss or a narrower hair grass like Eleocharis parvula.


----------



## Stu Worrall (7 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

they will look nice in the tank bob.  Ive found a few times that you can stree HC less by floating it on the surface for a few days before you plant it.  Not sure why it works, maybe as its closer to the light while it changes to your tank parameters.  Having said that mark evans' HC in his new tank journal defies all signs of converting from emmersed to immersed on his new tank!


----------



## Bobtastic (7 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Thanks for the suggestion Stu. How did you float it? Did you remove it from the pot and remove half the rock-wool and let it go? Or did you have to fashion some form of raft?


----------



## Stu Worrall (7 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Thanks for the suggestion Stu. How did you float it? Did you remove it from the pot and remove half the rock-wool and let it go? Or did you have to fashion some form of raft?


i put it in the part of my tank that was closest to the surface so it lay just beneath so I cheated in a way!  it would probably be easiest to tie some cable tie (the stuff you get around new cables on electrical equipment) to the pot then hang it over the edge of the tank.


----------



## idris (8 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Bob, when your Wendtii arrives, could you take q photo before you plant it? I'd be interested to see how the pots compare withthe ones I got. 

Have been catching up in your journal and like your spray bars. What size holes have you got, what spacing, and have you ended up with the same flow rate as the spraybars that came with your filters?


----------



## Bobtastic (8 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Here is a pic of my Jesus crypt wendyii "brown"






It arrived today and it WAS happily resting at the bottom of the tank. Its decided to start levitating about the place now. Must be all the Co2 bubbles floating about.

Not sure about the wholes on the spray bar I just took the original Eheim bar and found the drill bit that fit in the wholes as closely. I also took both sections of the bar added up the number of wholes and divided them by the length of my diy bar. I then spaced out that number of wholes by result, which if memory serves was 3.5cm. As I have never run the filter through the original spray bar I dont know what the difference in flow is... I also have an AM1000 on the same filter so the flow will be reduce anyway.

Right! I best go sort out Jesus crypt before the christians ascend too!

Edit : crap the Staurogyne just join in the floating!


----------



## idris (8 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hmmm. If you're still getting your plants from TGM my guess is that's Tropica and about twice the price I paid for mine. That said it looks about twice as big as mine. Even if mine are improving that's probably a lesson learnt. 

If it's any consolation I think my crypts and swords might be messianic too. They certainly seem to to have risen from the dead.  
(No offence intended to anyone.)


----------



## Bobtastic (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I planted up the Staurogyne sp, Cryt Wendtii "Brown" and Blyxa Japonic but I forgot to take a snap b4 I turned the lights off last night. Unfortunately the Pogostemon Erectus hasn't liked the conditions in my tank and most of it has melted away into mush... I still have a couple of heads left that I have replanted, but I'm not holding out much hope...

I will post up a picture when I get home.


----------



## Alastair (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I've never had any luck with HC in my tank in the substrate. I dud have 3d back ground once and some caught on there and grew a big mass above the surface. Transferred to below and didn't do well again. I've given up on it for now :0)


----------



## Bobtastic (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Yeah, I am concerned with the depth of my tank...

As a side effect of adding the new plants last night I have realised that I don't have enough substrate inbetween some of the rocks... Has anyone ever added more substrate to an already running tank?


----------



## Alastair (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Yeah, I am concerned with the depth of my tank...
> 
> As a side effect of adding the new plants last night I have realised that I don't have enough substrate inbetween some of the rocks... Has anyone ever added more substrate to an already running tank?



I do it all the time mate. I've got 2 Corys who love the back area of my tank so I'm always adding a big netful of fresh cat litter in. It's never seemed to have affected anything so far. 

I'm with you on the depth thing....


----------



## Stu Worrall (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Yeah, I am concerned with the depth of my tank...
> 
> As a side effect of adding the new plants last night I have realised that I don't have enough substrate inbetween some of the rocks... Has anyone ever added more substrate to an already running tank?


its not a problem.  Half fill a cup with AS. fill it with water so the AS abrorbs it then sink the cup into the wter and pour.  If you pour it into the tank dry it floats around then sinks in the wrong place!


----------



## Bobtastic (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Thanks for the tip Stu! I may have to buy another 3litre bag of Malaya. Or may be a 9litre bag, you know... just to be sure. 

As there's no fauna in there I guess I could completely drain the tank and add it in dry and then refill... I guess that would be the only way to do it if I wanted to add the powder form of Malaya?


----------



## dw1305 (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi all,


> HC in my tank in the substrate. I did have 3d back ground once and some caught on there and grew a big mass above the surface.


 I've grown it emersed on the top of a HMF sponge and it did very well and looked really effective.

cheers Darrel


----------



## idris (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

You could try getting a section of something like 50mm tube (an off cut of the stuff plumbers use) and slowly pouring the fresh substrate down it. Not sure how well it will work but might be worth a try.


----------



## Bobtastic (9 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Pictures for your approval


----------



## Bobtastic (13 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Most of the plants seem to be growing nicely but the HC, although some bits are very green it doesn't seem to be doing very much... It appears to pearls is it possible that it is just catching and holding Co2?

Would I have more luck with Gloss or does it has the same demands as HC?


----------



## Ian Holdich (13 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

personally, i think HC is easier than Glosso...nice pics Bob.


ps there appears to be someone asleep on you table.


----------



## Bobtastic (13 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> ps there appears to be someone asleep on you table.


Damn that boy!


----------



## faizal (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Bob,...is the water jet coming out of your spray bar still the same as in the picture there on Page 10 ? I think the water jet should be powerful enough to hit the front glass so that the vortex like water circulation could carry the co2 to the substrate level of your deep tank. 

Instead of making the spray bars running parrallel to each other as they do there in your picture,....don't you think that it would be a better idea to make them run along the same line along the rear wall of your tank & only to meet half way at the centre ? . This way,...each spray bar length is reduced into half and like Johno2090  had advised me ,...the water jet becomes stronger,...it reaches the front glass ,...and the curent would be able to travel with enough force  down the glass and reach the substrate levels where your HCs are.

Just my 2 cents worth.

This is what I mean,...

The poor water jet coming out of my spraybars in the begining prior to modification:





After the modification :





One way to know if it worked : Tiny bubbles would appear like salmons trying to swim up stream along the front glass of your tank,...only to be pushed down back to the substrate. (Again,...I am just repeating what has been taught to me,...but I do see this in my tank,..and it is quite fun to watch really  )

Hope that helped.

Faizal


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## LondonDragon (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Good advice by Faizal there, otherwise you will need to invest in a couple of Koralias  HC tends to like good CO2 and good ferts also, but the flow is important to get these down to the substrate level and your tank is pretty high.


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## Bobtastic (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

The problem I have is that Co2 is only connect to one filter. So to ensure that I get better distribution of Co2 around the tank I have both spray bars the full (available) length of the back wall. I understand that having the spray bars half the length of the tank would increase the exit velocity but then I'd have to get 2 UP Atomisers, and the related needle valves and splitters so that they each had Co2 running on them.

I am confident that my Co2 is getting to the substrate as either the Co2 is collecting on the HC or they are pearling. But they don't seem to be growing as fast as I would like.


----------



## LondonDragon (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I am confident that my Co2 is getting to the substrate as either the Co2 is collecting on the HC or they are pearling. But they don't seem to be growing as fast as I would like.


If its healthy and growing then patience  or you could flood the tank with more light and up everything else, but then that brings a load more of other issues which I would suggest you avoid


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## idris (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Any good reason not to have one spraybar across the back and either a second spraybar running vertically at the opposite end of to the intake, or a jet type nozzle at the bottom of the tank?


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## faizal (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> The problem I have is that Co2 is only connect to one filter. So to ensure that I get better distribution of Co2 around the tank I have both spray bars the full (available) length of the back wall. I understand that having the spray bars half the length of the tank would increase the exit velocity but then I'd have to get 2 UP Atomisers, and the related needle valves and splitters so that they each had Co2 running on them.
> 
> I am confident that my Co2 is getting to the substrate as either the Co2 is collecting on the HC or they are pearling. But they don't seem to be growing as fast as I would like.



That's great then,  ....but just in case you hadn't already known,.....a single UP atomizer can handle upto 300 Litres of water. So in theory atleast, I think it should be okay should you choose to hook it up to just one half of your spray bar configuration. Unless I am back to talking gibberish. Foxfish has quite some experience with the UP atomizers,....it could help if you'd want to double check that with him.

Faizal


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## Bobtastic (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I was under the impression that if you're running two spray bars (each half the tank) you'd need to run diffuser/reactor/atomiser on each of the filters to guarantee maximum Co2 diffusion/circulation.


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## Alastair (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that if you're running two spray bars (each half the tank) you'd need to run diffuser/reactor/atomiser on each of the filters to guarantee maximum Co2 diffusion/circulation.



I totally agree, Im running two fx5s via spray bars each half of the tank and run co2 via diffuser into each intake. From previous experience only using one filter resulted in lots of growth etc on that side but little on the other. 

I got my current method from reading a thread on flow in the planted aquarium, where clive explained the benefit of spray bars along the back wall along with co2 supplied on each outlet.


----------



## idris (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

What would happen if you crossed over the pipes for the spraybars:
left intake feeds left filter, output through right spraybar,
right intake feeds right filter, output through left spraybar.

That way the CO2 enriched water would get circulated round both sides of the tank.
(Just strikes me as simpler than running 2 reactors. But maybe I'm missing out on some important factors,)


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## Alastair (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I do that too idris, but still have co2 through both to be safe ;0). I think it would work with just one feed though in bobs case


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## Bobtastic (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I'd rather not take the chase! If I'm gonna be running shorter bars I'll be running two UP Atomisers. I have a unused Korillia that I could put in if needs be.


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## faizal (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Sorry Bob,....  

Hope I didn't add to your troubles there. 

Faizal


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## Bobtastic (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

No, it's cool. It's something that I've thought about and decided that the way I have chosen to go is the right wone for the moment. I may go with the the shorter bar and double Atomisers when I have a little bit of spare cash. 

Can anyone tell me what I would need to split and control the CO2 feed from my regulator?

I'll hopefully be posting some pictures up a little later on this evening.


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## Bobtastic (22 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Appologies for the heavy photo post.










You can see the bubble forming on HC.












Here are some pictures of the Tennellus sending out runners.







And on a side note here's a couple of picture of the mini tree,I don't really like to call it an bonsi as it's from Aldi!


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## faizal (23 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Wow,...yeah . That does look like pearling there.   Congratulations Bob,...its going to be a beauty once it nicely fills in.


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## Bobtastic (23 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I wish the HC was looking healthier and was spreading out! But definitely happy with the way the Staurogyne and Tennellus are growing.


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## Bobtastic (27 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

It's nearly been a month since planting and altho I'm happy that the Tennellus is filling it, it's not going as quickly as I'm hoped it would...

I've been toying with the idea of adding another type of hair grass to mix in with the Tennellus in the foreground. Something with finer blades, probably Eleocharis Acicularis, to add a different texture. Is this a good idea? or would it end up looking messy and be a pain?


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## LondonDragon (27 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Looking good Bob, next time I trim my Staurogyne I will send you some more to fill it up a little


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## Bobtastic (27 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Ooooh! Thanks mate that would be very kind! Any thoughts on mixing some Eleocharis Acicularis into the Tennellus?


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## LondonDragon (28 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Ooooh! Thanks mate that would be very kind! Any thoughts on mixing some Eleocharis Acicularis into the Tennellus?


No worries, I would not mix it for now, just let it grow and see how it turns out


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## Bobtastic (29 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Last night I added my Hydor Korillia power head to the tank, placed in the middle of the back wall underneath the double stacked spray bars. It's on the same timer as the Co2 so only runs while the gas is on. It definitely seems to push the water around, but not sure if it's in the best position. I'll get a picture tonight so you can see it. 

But from the full tank shot where would you place one of these power heads?


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## Bobtastic (30 Jun 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*


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## Ian Holdich (1 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*






^^that pic give a better perspective in the tank Bob! Good to see the runners on the Tennellus, love the rock choice as well.


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## LondonDragon (1 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I would rather go with two koralias than just one (one each side), but with just the single I would place it in the middle too, at least it send a flow in both directions of the tank.


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## Bobtastic (1 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I'm not gonna be able to add another Korillia any time soon. So with the one, it's in the best place? Would it be better a little higher up? With the mount underneath the spray bars perhaps?


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## Bobtastic (2 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

The powerhead seems to be forcing the water around to fast for the Co2 bubbles to have contact with the plants... They seem to pearl/collect bubbles better without it. I also seem to have a touch of the algae! 




I'll take the tooth brush to it tomorrow on the next water change. 

It was funny this morning, there was a chink of light coming through the curtains and the Tennellus that was in the light was sending off a stream of O2 bubbles! It stopped as soon as I closed the curtain properly.


----------



## Bobtastic (11 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Still seem to be getting some algae on the rocks... I think it's Diatoms but also had a couple of patches of green algae and some very small spots of tuffty stuff... I have re-added the media that I removed from the Eheim 2079 as it seemed to make no difference and also removed the netting from the reactor to see if this helps with the problem. 

Another cause my be all the sunshine that we have atm, the tank is in a room with two large windows at either end... And without living like a hermit there seems to be no way of stopping the light getting it.

Cleaned the rocks with a tooth brush but there is some Diatoms on the Staurogyne front middle. Also direct dosed some Seachem Excel to the affected areas while the filters were off for the water change.


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

The diatoms will go mate. Done worry there. 

Is the tuffty stuff green? A sure indication of poor co2 mate, i'm afraid. 

Green on the rocks, is probably GDA, which will be linked with the low co2.


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## Bobtastic (11 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I have a feeling that the addition of the netting in the AM1000 seemed to hinder the Co2 rather than help it, so that is why I've remove it. I have left the Korrillia in and on the timer with the Co2 so there is more flow whilst it's on.

I must admit I'm starting to get a little concerned about the Co2 levels, as I have to have them quite high and what I would consider far too high for any fauna that I will eventually put in. I only have 2x 49watt T5 over the top so it's not exactly massive amounts of light...


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> I must admit I'm starting to get a little concerned about the Co2 levels, as I have to have them quite high and what I would consider far too high for any fauna that I will eventually put in.



Let your fish be the judge of that. Seriously, if you see how much Co2 i put in my tanks, you'd freak out. My fish are all happy.


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## Bobtastic (11 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

The tank is fauna-less atm but do have some Otts in my low tech atm that I plan to move over soon as sacrificial lambs!

I'll just have to keep a close eye on them when they go in. Thanks for the encouragement Mark!


----------



## Bobtastic (12 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

So I tried three Ottos from my other tank in here and they last no more than 5 mins b4 one was floating around the top and the other two were motionless on the bottom... They made no attempt to evade the net when I went in for the rescue! So it's safe to say that my gas is excessively high for the fauna... Even the lone snail that's in there at the moment lives at the water line...

Ottos went back to normal once transferred to bucket, then back to low tech tank. Hopefully they'll have no lasting ill effects...


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## dw1305 (12 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi all,


> ..... have some Otts in my low tech atm that I plan to move over soon as sacrificial lambs!........So I tried three Ottos from my other tank in here and they last no more than 5 mins b4 one was floating around the top and the other two were motionless on the bottom...


I think _Otocinclus_ were probably about the worst fish you could try for this, and I personally think that it was  unfair to the fish to put them in the tank if you suspected the level of CO2 was that high. 

_Otocinclus_ are quite rheophilic and come from vegetated waters with high O2. As a general rule the more rheophilic a fish is the less tolerance it will have to low O2 levels. In this case the Oto's were unlikely to be suffering directly from low oxygen levels, but are more likely to be stressed by high levels of carbon dioxide in the water. Without a sharp gradient between CO2 levels in the blood and CO2 levels in the water, it becomes increasingly difficult for the CO2 in the fishes blood to diffuse out across their gill surfaces into the water. 

If you wish to repeat the exercise I would recommend an Anabantoid fish like a Gourami or _Betta_, which may still show signs of distress, but can breathe atmospheric oxygen avoiding the worst effects of suffocation.

cheers Darrel


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## Bobtastic (12 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Thanks for the input Darrel.


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## idris (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Or you could turn down the CO2.


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## Bobtastic (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Lol, obviously! The gas was only that high because I had no fauna, but as I have already had some algae creeping in with the Co2 almost on full blast... I'm a little concerned about what will happen when I start to turn it down...

I reduced it by a little last night so we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping that the reduced bubble rate will mean less bubbles and better overall diffusion.


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## dw1305 (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi all,


> Thanks for the input Darrel.


 Sorry Bob, that came over a bit more aggressive than I meant it to be, it is just I've got a bit of a thing about Otos and their care.  

cheers Darrel


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## idris (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Obviously I'm no expert, but could you introduce more plants to soak up the nutrients the algae are consuming?


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## Bobtastic (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the input Darrel.
> ...


Lol, it's no trouble Darrel. Otto's are my favourite fishies too, and if I'd known they were so sensitive to Co2 and react so badly I wouldn't have used them... It was mainly cos they were in there originally (pre-re-scape) and that they were the fish I planned on introducing first to eat any algae. 

Plus... Mark encouraged me! It's all his fault!  Only joking Mark!   

Idris, I'm not really sure that's how it works... Plus I technically have more Tennellus plants in there now than when I started and the Blxya and Staurogyne was also added later. All pre-algae.


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## Mark Evans (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Plus... Mark encouraged me! It's all his fault!  Only joking Mark!


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## Bobtastic (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

So while I'm dialling down the gas thoughts are turning to fauna.

Initial choices are :-
Otto's
Rummy Nose Tetra
Amano shrimp
Red Cherry shrimp


----------



## idris (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Idris, I'm not really sure that's how it works... Plus I technically have more Tennellus plants in there now than when I started and the Blxya and Staurogyne was also added later. All pre-algae.


Don't take my word for it, but as far as I understand ...
Some plants take up nutrients faster than others eg fast growing stem plants.
And if the plants are supping all the nutrients from the water column, the algae will find it harder to flourish.


----------



## Bobtastic (13 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Humm, might get some floating plants. I understand that they suck fert.


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## Bobtastic (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Are Amano and Red Cherry shrimp ok to keep in the same tank? There wont be any unsightly inter-breeding or Spock vs Kirk style duels will there?


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## Stu Worrall (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

they will be fine together bob. no duets in sight


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## Bobtastic (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Kewl, I think I'll throw in another couple of test fish at the weekend, not Ottos tho. If they fair ok I will see if I can find somewhere that's selling Amanos!


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## andyh (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Kewl, I think I'll throw in another couple of test fish at the weekend, not Ottos tho. If they fair ok I will see if I can find somewhere that's selling Amanos!



The Abyss in Stockport normally carries them. Very good fish shop.

Get your CO2 down to 30ppm and everything should be fine


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## Bobtastic (14 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Get your CO2 down to 30ppm and everything should be fine



It'll be fine for the fauna, and awesome for all the algae I'll get too. 

But I guess I'd need something for the Otto and shrimp to eat.  

I'll check out Abyss, but been to any of the Stockport fish shops yet!


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## Bobtastic (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Ok. Need some advise on "best practise" when introducing fauna to Co2 enriched tank that has been running with a fish free start (i.e. extremely high Co2).

Is it best to turn the Co2 right down and also low the light time, ruffle the surface to gas of a much as you can then introduce the fauna. Then once settled in gradually turn up the gas and increase the light time?


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## Stu Worrall (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

as long as youre at 30ppm then you should be ok to add them without turning it down as youll lose your setting on the reg that got you to 30ppm.

I introduce mine with the lights off, float the bag in the tank and gradually add your tank water to the fish shop water until you're at double or more int he fish bag.  once your happy youve got them acclimatised you can net them out of the bag into your tank.  Dont add the fish bag water to your tank in case the shop you bought them from has some nasties in the water or new types of algae spores that you didnt have before! 

If youve got the time this can take an hour or two but be minful that the tank water your adding will gas off some of that co2.


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## Bobtastic (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I'm not sure how you can guarantee that you are at 30ppm... I have lowered my bubble rate but not sure that it's low enough to have happy, non-dead fish.

I'm familiar with the acclimation process, just not with a Co2 equipped tank. 

I tried again with one of my plattys from the low tech tank and it didn't seem overly happy with the experience... Gas has been lowered further, but obviously don't wish to continue torturing fish... Hence the idea of dropping the level right down and then building it back up to an "acceptable level".


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## idris (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I'm sure this is an obvious question, but you do have a dkh4 thingey? (Can't remember what they're called - little glass bulb with indicator fluid in it.)
As I understand it, just because you have X bubbles per min, that doesn't necessarily give you much indication of how much CO2 is actually dissolved in the water.


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## greenink (18 Jul 2011)

*Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				idris said:
			
		

> I'm sure this is an obvious question, but you do have a dkh4 thingey? (Can't remember what they're called - little glass bulb with indicator fluid in it.)
> As I understand it, just because you have X bubbles per min, that doesn't necessarily give you much indication of how much CO2 is actually dissolved in the water.



A lime green drop checker


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## Bobtastic (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

I have a drop check, but again they are not the most actuate way of finding out the amount of dissolved Co2...


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## andyh (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Bob

Having never set a tank this way, i have no real hands on experience but i would do/suggest the following:

1. Reduce your lights i.e run 2 tubes instead of 4 etc for a week or two.
2. Reduce your CO2 level so that you maintain a green drop checker. Yellow is the enemy for fish. Green is sufficent for growing plants.
3. Try to introduce your fish at a time when the CO2 aint on, preferably b4 it comes on, so that they can get used to being in an CO2 enriched environment grdually.

Good luck

Andy


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## Bobtastic (18 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> 1. Reduce your lights i.e run 2 tubes instead of 4 etc for a week or two.



I only have 2 tubes! So all I've got it the time the lights are on. 



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> 2. Reduce your CO2 level so that you maintain a green drop checker. Yellow is the enemy for fish. Green is sufficent for growing plants.
> 3. Try to introduce your fish at a time when the CO2 aint on, preferably b4 it comes on, so that they can get used to being in an CO2 enriched environment grdually.



That was my thinking.


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## Bobtastic (26 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

After a successful introduction of a "test platy" I decided to take a trip down to my LFS! and came home the proud own of 5 Rummy Nosed Tetras and 5 "algae shrimp". The shrimp looked a bit like Pinocchio shrimp, but I don't think their noses were long enough.

After a rather... nervous looking start on the Rummys behalf all new additions seemed to settle in fine. The shrimp were running around the tank and were swimming up into the water column. Everyone seemed to settle in and the Rummys happily took some food. 

Everyone looked happy at lights out, and to help with their first night I decided to put a Korillia one a time pointing at the surface to gas off as much Co2 and exchange O2 for the new inhabitants.

Unfortunately when I checked this morning all the shrimp are dead... their bodies have turned a milky white... The Rummys look ok, but RIP shrimp.

I wonder if my flow is to strong for them? Or may be the Korillia interfered with the flow from the spray bars so that the O2 rich flow didn't get to the bottom...


----------



## Alastair (26 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Sorry to hear about the shrimp bob...I think if it was down to lack of O2 then the rummies would have been up at the top....can't see it being that if they are ok..


----------



## Bobtastic (26 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Yeah, the Rummys were schoaling near the bottom. The flow from the spray bars seems to be quite fast around the tank and they don't seem to be much chance to rests...


----------



## Westyggx (27 Jul 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - Finally planted page 10*

Hi Bob, not visited this journal yet but thought id take a look at a few for inspiration for my nano. Loving the rock work!


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## Bobtastic (1 Aug 2011)

Thanks Westyggx! Took an age of tweeking to get it to how I liked it, as you will see if you read from the start! 

I've now added a total of 12 Rummy Nosed Tetras and they seem to be very happy. They seem to be running sentry across the front of pane of glass whilst the lights are on and they are not hiding.

I'm now thinking of adding some SAE so can ppl share their opinion on Siamese Algae Eaters? I quite like the look of them and they look pretty similar to Ottos, which I planned to put in but haven't been able to find any... Are SAE as good or better than Ottos at eating algae?


----------



## Alastair (1 Aug 2011)

There good at eating algae yes mate, they do grow quite big though but great fish and very active


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Aug 2011)

I remember seeing them in "Bones of the Earth" at TGM and they did look quite large. Do they need to be kept in specific numbers? eg 6+ or are they only riding solo?


----------



## dw1305 (1 Aug 2011)

Hi all,


> are they only riding solo?


 SAE don't like one another, so it is only one unless it is a big tank.
cheers Darrel


----------



## Alastair (1 Aug 2011)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > are they only riding solo?
> ...


ive never seen that behaviour with them. i know the flying fox behaves that way but never seen it with siamese flying foxes though. hmmmmm.


----------



## Bobtastic (1 Aug 2011)

Well I got two Siamese Flying Foxes and they've pretty much stuck together since they were put in. May get a couple more!


----------



## Alastair (1 Aug 2011)

see how ya go with the two for now bob, they grow quick lol


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Aug 2011)

My SAE are getting large now,3",  while i liked them when they were younger they were supposed to be background fish not the most active and dominant! They are great cleaners though!  Trouble is they are too quick to catch in a planted tank... going to have to use my imagination.


----------



## Bobtastic (5 Aug 2011)

*Re: Bobtastic's Iwagumi Scape - More pictures and fish*

Still battling with some pesky algae, but its not too unsightly.














More fishies added, I now have a total of 20 Rummy Nose Tetras, 2 SAEs and so far... 1 Otocinclus! Last one in the shop.  

I'm thinking that I could do with something tall in the back left corner... Thought about moving the crypts forwards and getting some stems behind them and the large rock... but which ones and would it work?


----------



## Bobtastic (19 Sep 2011)

I regret to inform any readers of my journal that this scape has effectively come to an end...

As of this weekend my girlfriend and I have parted ways and as I was living with her and effectively have no wear to go, I am unable to take this tank with me. Hopefully this will not be the end of my aquascaping/aquatic plant keeping hobby and once I am setup in my new life I will be able to start a new if not smaller tank!

There may or may not be equipment appearing on the items for sale board, but watch out cos there may be some bargains on the horizon.


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## Alastair (19 Sep 2011)

Sorry to hear that bob I really am. Hope apps well thOugh mate


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