# Shrimp substrate question.



## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Hi guys,i was wondering if JBL Manando would be a suitable substrate for a shrimp tank?Or should i try and get hold of specialised shrimp substrate?Any advice most welcome,cheers Mark.


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## kirk (6 Jan 2014)

I was going to use that  in our tank. I thought it looked good for the money. In the end I went for ada topped with akadama. Jbl do a nice range.  I was going to use Jbl aquabasis plus capped with the mando. Jbl recon the Aqua basis is good for 3 years   or you can just add the 7+13 balls which I personally rate,just pushed into the mando.


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Thanks for your reply Kirk.Only thought i had was the Manando effect on TDS and that it seems to have magnetic properties.Would this be a problem?Cheers Mark.


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## kirk (6 Jan 2014)

Thats got me thinking Mark . A question I couldn't answer correctly with confidence. This is what they say in catalogue.  I did think that the properties were an advantage. Could just be something that all good substrate does.


   some of the more experienced shrimpers on here will be of more help ie Nathaniel or Lindy maybe? Cheers Kirk.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

Colombo flora base is an excellent substrate for a planted and shrimp tank if not keeping rooted plants borneowild shrimp soil is an excellent choice


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Thanks Kirk and Graham,there will be no rooted plants in the set up,just moss and Java fern.I have some Manando lying around thats all but if it is going to cause problems i would rather look around for something more suitable.Maybe Manando could be ok for Neocaradinia but i would not think for more demanding species,would i be right?Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

Yes your right there neocaridina are happy on most substrates they are very adaptable where as the more sensitive shrimp need more stable water parameters that's where you can't beat a good active shrimp substrate
All depends on which type shrimp you decide on


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

I could get hold of Shirakura Red Bee Sand or Dennerle Shrimp Substrate should be better than Manando in a shrimp nano.I could not source anything else where i live in Italy at the moment.What do you guys think?Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

Which shrimp would you like to keep?
I have a tank set up with shirakura red bee sand its an excellent shrimp soil


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

I have been keeping Red Sakura in one 20 liter nano now i have another 20 liter almost empty just a few Rilli shrimp in there,and am thinking about what to put in there.With a decent substrate obviously you have an advantage.


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Would i be able to keep Neocaradinia with the red bee sand or is it only for Caradina?Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

You can keep neocaradinia shrimp with ease with red bee sand & you could also keep a caradinia species as well if you choose to
Some of the colour morphs of neocaradinia species do better in slightly softer water conditions where as the red cherry will happily live & breed in almost any water within reason


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

with the right substrate your options can be endless but you have to remember substrates will only last so long as you need to look after them using re mineralised ro water the substrates will last way longer than just using tap water unless you are lucky enough to have soft water


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Thanks Graham i think i will get hold of some red bee sand then.It comes in a 4kg bag so should be plenty left over for rescapes Is there anything in particular to take care of with this substrate?Should anything be added to the substrate or use it on it's own(no substrate planting will be done).Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

Go for a depth of at least 5cms it makes a big difference to the buffering capabilities of the soil
When setting up a new tank I always dose the mid layer of the substrate with Borneowild bebi, minerax & enlive as this will help build up a good healthy layer of biofilm & microorganisms for the shrimp to feed on
Mineral powder releases important trace minerals into water column really helps with moulting issues & general wellbeing & bacteria to feed the filter & substrate really important in a low ph tank for topping bacteria after water changes
Plenty of other similar products are available


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Graham01 said:


> Go for a depth of at least 5cms it makes a big difference to the buffering capabilities of the soil
> When setting up a new tank I always dose the mid layer of the substrate with Borneowild bebi, minerax & enlive as this will help build up a good healthy layer of biofilm & microorganisms for the shrimp to feed on
> Mineral powder releases important trace minerals into water column really helps with moulting issues & general wellbeing & bacteria to feed the filter & substrate really important in a low ph tank for topping bacteria after water changes
> Plenty of other similar products are available


I was going to use Genchem Biozynme,Beta-G and Polytase as well as Shirakura Mineral Stone.Is that enough or is something vital missing?RO water mineralised with Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+ or Dennerle Crusta Mineral as have done in the past on my Sakura nano.Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

Should be plenty have you ever tried shirakura chi ebi works much the same as the borneowild bebi it promotes biofilm & microorganisms & a great feed for adults & baby shrimp alike


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

Graham01 said:


> Should be plenty have you ever tried shirakura chi ebi works much the same as the borneowild bebi it promotes biofilm & microorganisms & a great feed for adults & baby shrimp alike


Will have a look and see if i can source it where i live.Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Jan 2014)

The stockists of the red bee sand should be able to source it for you it really helps in raising young shrimps & boosts the survival & growth rates


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## Ian Holdich (6 Jan 2014)

I've used manado with shrimp before with no problems, however, it does tend to wash the colour a little due to it being so orange. If you can get hold of any soils near you then these are great for shrimp.


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Jan 2014)

No your dead right Ian the colour of the shrimp does not stand out very well.It served me well for learning a bit and it was cheap so i can't knock it.I have it in my hi tech 450L tank no problems,plants all grow well.I was a bit worried about it raising TDS and it is a bit magnetic,which im not sure would be good for a demanding shrimp nano.So will spend a bit of Euro for some Red Bee Sand and have a go!Cheers Mark


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## MARKCOUSINS (14 Jan 2014)

Hi guys my Shiakura Red Bee Sand should arrive soon.I was wondering when cycling the tank for a few weeks with plants only should I fill with a RO/Tap mix or just tap water?Is it necessary to remineralise the water during cycling process?Add mineral stone during cycling process or not?Any advice would be a great help cheers Mark.


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## Graham01 (14 Jan 2014)

What's your water parameters straight from the tap & with the ro mix as normally cycling a tank it will cycle quicker in harder water compared to soft water
I would add the mineral stone whilst cycling as these release minerals very slowly & will be perfect for when you are adding your shrimp
If mixing ro with tap water depending on the percentage of tap water used there may be no need to mineralise if using a 50/50 mix


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## MARKCOUSINS (14 Jan 2014)

Thanks for your good advice Graham.Did a few quick tests on tap water TDS 310,PH 8ish,KH 13,GH 18.Looks pretty good for Lake Malawi!!Pretty hard water.Reading a bit that I found on this substrate they say to use at least 20% tap and never straight RO as this could damage the substrate.The substrate is meant to stabilize the PH at about 6.5 lower KH to near 0 and drop GH being carefull not to go below 5.Like your comment that reminded me about bacteria growth is quicker in harder water.Let me know what you think.I think a mix of tap and RO not sure quite what kind of mix though.But will have a good few weeks without livestock so can play with it a bit and see what the substrate does to affect the levels.I have mineral stone,white powder and Chi Ebi from Shirakura allready.Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (15 Jan 2014)

You could cycle your tank with no substrate using 100% tap water and when your cycle is finished lower the tds ph and gh with ro water a 50% straight ro water change  should be about right then add your substrate and let it go to work on buffering the water


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## MARKCOUSINS (15 Jan 2014)

I am definately putting the sand in from the start.Will also add some Chi Ebi to get some micro organisms into the substrate.


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## MARKCOUSINS (3 Feb 2014)

Almost had the tank going for 3 weeks with the Shirakura Red bee sand in.I was waiting to do the the water change with R/O water remineralising with bee shrimp GH+.Would this cause damage to the buffering capacity of the substrate?Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (4 Feb 2014)

It wont affect it at all it will prolong the life of the substrate using mineralised ro water
I only use mineralised ro water in my set up with the shirakura red bee sand & know of plenty of others that are doing the same


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## MARKCOUSINS (4 Feb 2014)

Thanks Graham thats a wait off my mind while for me it is much easier just to get the R/o water add bee shrimp GH+ test the TDS is correct and water is sorted!Also people have said not to use water softners ie.guava,cattapa,banana leaves....which i would like to add with red bee sand.I am going to add them anyway as i think they do more benefit to the shrimp.Shirakura officialy say don't add them.Any views anyone?Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (4 Feb 2014)

Adding a few leaves will make no difference to the water chemistry unless your planning on adding them by the handful there buffering abilities are pretty limited  
Shirakura also say use 100% tap water for water changes if you followed this advice your soil would be knackered after a few months with water as hard as yours they don't state the parameters of the tap water they say to add so it could be soft  if adding mineralised ro water very close to the ph 6.5 & gh of 5 or 6 your soil will be doing very little work just steadying the ship so to say & will last way longer than the guide lines


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## MARKCOUSINS (4 Feb 2014)

Nice one exactly as i thought but allways good to hear it from someone else Tank has been running about 3 weeks now but will give it a bit longer.The parameters are looking good might put a few red cherry/Sakura in next week for a few days just to be extra sure there are no nasties in there!Then have to see what i am going to put in.There is a guy not to far away who could sell me low grade crs with taiwan bee gene for a decent price he also has various Tiger shrimp.Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (5 Feb 2014)

You have some good options you could keep the F1's with sakura shrimp for a good mix
I would keep adding the bebi to feed the filter & build up a good layer of biofilm for the shrimp as well


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## MARKCOUSINS (6 Feb 2014)

Yes i am happy to have found somewhere that gives a bit of choice and a reasonable price it's not easy in Italy!I have not got any bebi but have been adding Shirakura Chi Ebi to try and get some micro organisms in the substrate and Seachem Stabilty for the filter sponges.Cheers Mark


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## Graham01 (6 Feb 2014)

Meant to say chi ebi works pretty much the same the only difference with the bebi is you can dose it directly into the substrate at set up as well as straight into the tank  
Is the tank fully cycled now if so your ready for shrimp


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## MARKCOUSINS (7 Feb 2014)

Yes Graham,I'm happy with the parameters.I think fairly soon i will introduce some shrimp.Probably a few Red Sakura just for a bit of a test run before going with a caradina species.F1's definately looking favourite as my prefered choiceCheers Mark.


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## Graham01 (8 Feb 2014)

Good luck with the shrimp & hopefully you have lots of breeding going on


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