# CO2 and Lights When To Start?



## REDSTEVEO (19 Sep 2017)

So after a mega strip down and clean, everything is now back up and running. This time around I've gone with JBL Volcanic as the base substrate and topped it with JBL Plant Soil.

Filters starting from scratch with new filter media. Finished planting yesterday. To minimise the effects of the ammonia spike I'm doing 50% water changes every three days for the next two to three weeks, as per the instructions on the JBL bags.

My question is when to switch on the lights and start pumping the CO2 in? I thought if I am changing so much water over the next few weeks is it pointless to waste the CO2.

Lights maybe for 2 to 3 hours, low level LED setting?

Dreading the expected 'New Tank Syndrome' and associated algae issues but been there before.

Any suggestions appreciated. Photos to follow.


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## foxfish (19 Sep 2017)

If you have planted the tank then you need as much C02 as possible, if you don't have fish or shrimp then give it max C02!


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## DavidW (19 Sep 2017)

You could start the tank off with liquid CO2 which will also help combat potential algae issues then move to CO2. I've started both my nano tanks this way and haven't had any real issues with algae. As for lights I usually start with 6 hours and gradually increase and have my LED light at 80%.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2017)

Planting heavily from the get go helps.
Do your water changes before the gas comes on.
You've planted so you'll need lights from the start, I always go for 6hrs to start with.
The light intensity will need to be higher than the plants light compensation point, so don't go too low otherwise your plants will suffer and release organics which will make the NTS worse.
Like foxfish says pump in the CO2 from the start but once the tank has cycled dial the CO2 in for critters and introduce a clean up crew ASAP - Amanos and otos.
I tend to do dial the CO2 in for critters from the start anyway, that way you can stabilise the CO2 quickly which also gives your plants the best opportunity adjust as well.
And like David mentions a daily dose of LC will also help.
Either way the diatomaceous algae common in new tanks is transitionary and usually disappears after several weeks.


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## REDSTEVEO (19 Sep 2017)

Thanks gents, I appreciate the advice. To begin with I'm thinking of putting the CO2 on a timer for a few hours each day. Will that be enough?


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## REDSTEVEO (19 Sep 2017)

foxfish said:


> If you have planted the tank then you need as much C02 as possible, if you don't have fish or shrimp then give it max C02!



God foxfish, please change that orrible avatar it's freakin me out

My drop checker is showing lime green and I haven't added any CO2 yet, but it's only the second day.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Sep 2017)

Just start as you mean to go on...6hr photoperiod, lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off. 
And as always try to maximise your CO2 flow and distribution.


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## foxfish (19 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> God foxfish, please change that orrible avatar it's freakin me out


LOL I used that for last years Halloween, might as well leave for this years now...


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## Deansie (19 Sep 2017)

I find the c02 helps keep the already under control so always seems to me best to keep it full on for what the price of a refill is anyway.


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## REDSTEVEO (20 Sep 2017)

Doing a ater change today after taking the ammonia readings.

Readings on day 1 after planting were:-

1. PH = 6.80
2. KH = 0
3. GH = 4
4. NO2 = 4
5. NO3 = 0
5. Ammonia = 0.25
6. TDS = 148
7. Microsiemens = 340

I will set the CO2 on a timer to come on at 11 am and off at 5 pm.
Lights on at 12 pm and off at 6 pm.
So 6 hour lighting period and 5 hour CO2 period


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## Daveslaney (20 Sep 2017)

What water do you use RO plus Gh booster?


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## REDSTEVEO (20 Sep 2017)

To start with I have only usd tap water, which in North Wales is not bad. I will be using a mixture of RO and HMA Filtered water with TMC Discus Remineral Pro.

No point using RO water at this stage while a few big water changes need doing during the ammonia spike period.


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## REDSTEVEO (23 Sep 2017)

Well it's still only early days, only six days in fact since I planted up this project. Not a lot of movement or growth with the plants at the moment, which is to be expected I suppose. I've had the usual melting of some of the leaves on the Crypts which was expected as they were bought immersed.

Still no sign of the ammonia spike either which is strange. In fact no sign of anything, Nitrite, Ammonia, or Nitrate! Which I don't think is a good sign. This was going to be a 'fish less' cycle, but I'm thinking of dropping in a couple of Ottocinclus and maybe some Amano Shrimps to move things along, but if the ammonia does spike worried it will be too much for them. What do you think?

I have just added 100 Mis of Easy Life Filter Aid to see if that gets things moving.

PH 6.8
Temp 25 degrees
All other readings the same.

Thanks,
Steve


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## ceg4048 (24 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> I've had the usual melting of some of the leaves on the Crypts which was expected as they were bought immersed.


Steve,
          I never expect this. Crypt melting leaves is an early indication of poor CO2. So you might want to start evaluating injection rate and/or flow distribution, or the possibility of excessive lighting.


REDSTEVEO said:


> Still no sign of the ammonia spike either which is strange. In fact no sign of anything, Nitrite, Ammonia, or Nitrate! Which I don't think is a good sign.


You really need to stop this testing. I don't know why folks continue to waste money and energy on test kits.

Do you really think that fish have chemistry degrees? Fish do not know how to solve your problems.



REDSTEVEO said:


> I have just added 100 Mis of Easy Life Filter Aid to see if that gets things moving.


Steve, good Lord man are you actually paying money for bacteria? You can get bacteria for free at any pet shop or even in your garden or house plants.

My advice is to spend your resources and energy on fixing CO2/flow/distribution.


Cheers,


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## foxfish (24 Sep 2017)

foxfish said:


> If you have planted the tank then you need as much C02 as possible, if you don't have fish or shrimp then give it max C02!


Now is the time to experiment with the C02 levels, as soon as you add fish or shrimp you will have to be very carful not to overdose them!
I am a fan of testing and monitoring the PH levels. I normally aim for a one point PH drop as that seems to put my tanks on the money for good strong plant growth without unduly effecting my fish.
When I set up a new tank, I spend a few days adjusting the C02 levels so I have a one point drop berofe the lights come on and try to get it to stay that way for the whole 7 hour lighting period. 
After around one week I will know if things are looking ok, if I spot algae, I might increase the Co2, double the water changing and spend time cleaning the pants.
I am a huge fan of T5 lighting, I have found 2 x T5s the length of the tank works every time for me, so I don't really worry about the lighting I just concentrate on flow, C02 & daily maintenance.
Now a one point PH drop may not be ideal for your tanks but my point is to experiment and keep records of the PH until you have found what works for your own tank. When you are happy with the plants, then consider adding fish


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Steve,
> I never expect this. Crypt melting leaves is an early indication of poor CO2. So you might want to start evaluating injection rate and/or flow distribution, or the possibility of excessive lighting.
> 
> You really need to stop this testing. I don't know why folks continue to waste money and energy on test kits.
> ...




Hi Clive, thanks for taking the time to give me you input, as ever it is very much appreciated I always seem to remember Crypts melting in the first few days but only if they were bought immersed, I never had them melt if they were bought already submersed. But I agree about the CO2, the Dupla Drop Checker has been lime green since I put it in a week ago. Yesterday evening I decided to leave the CO2 on overnight, the bubble counter is at 120 BPM, last night the reading on the Dupla digital display was 6.8 PH, this morning after CO2 being on all night the PH is at 6.23.

So still no 1 degree drop before lights on as Foxfish mentions below. The flow at the moment is outstanding, both filters giving maximum output, I can see the leaves of the plants swaying in every position in the tank, so I am confident flow is not an issue.

So that leaves us with the lighting. When you say 'possibility of excessive lighting' did you mean I have got too much light, or I need to increase the lighting?

KH still zero, and GH still 4. NO2 and Ammonia zero.

I am like you Clive, I don't like testing, if the plants are doing really well there is not much wrong with the water, so the fish should be fine.

Will keep you posted, and thanks again for your expert advice

Cheers,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Sep 2017)

foxfish said:


> Now is the time to experiment with the C02 levels, as soon as you add fish or shrimp you will have to be very carful not to overdose them!
> I am a fan of testing and monitoring the PH levels. I normally aim for a one point PH drop as that seems to put my tanks on the money for good strong plant growth without unduly effecting my fish.
> When I set up a new tank, I spend a few days adjusting the C02 levels so I have a one point drop berofe the lights come on and try to get it to stay that way for the whole 7 hour lighting period.
> After around one week I will know if things are looking ok, if I spot algae, I might increase the Co2, double the water changing and spend time cleaning the pants.
> ...



Hi Foxfish, (still freaked out about that bloody avatar) promise us you will change it after Halloween!!

You are dead right about experimenting. I was so tempted last night to drop a few Cory's in there to aid the cycling, but now after reading what you said, I'm definitely going to leave it a week or two more to see how things progress.

Interesting to see that even after leaving the CO2 on all night there was still no 1 degree drop before the lights came on at 12 pm today! 

My lighting previously was from the original Eheim Light unit with 2 X T5 tubes. Now I have got a US Satellite Freshwater Plant Pro LED which gives a lot more flexibility with the settings, from full on max daylight bright white, to very subtle red blue and green settings. It has a moonlight setting for night time, even got a setting that simulates sunny day with intermittent cloud cover. This is the setting I have got it on at the moment.

No algae present at the moment and Inhope it stays that way. But no ferts of any description going in either, this is because the JBL substrates I have used are supposed to contain all the minerals and nutrients required at this stage. What do you think?

Cheers,
Steve


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## foxfish (24 Sep 2017)

I think you should turn the gas up just to see what happens.
There will be a ideal settings, for your gas matching your lights, the flow and & surface movement (gassing off C02) all need to be in harmony.
The guys with really successful tanks know how to do just that but I think you might need to experiment to find the best setting for your own tank.
I don't see any reason not to start liquid ferts.


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Sep 2017)

I agree, not sure about the liquid ferts, might wait to see what Cluve has to say. Big fear of providing too much light too soon before the roots have firmly established and in case it just starts off the algae cycle.

Cheers,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (24 Sep 2017)

Hi Steve,
              What I meant is that you want to avoid having too much light. I've never advocated the use of mega lighting because that's what causes most of our problems.
I don't know what size tank this is, so I have no idea whether 2 bubbles per second is a lot or not enough.

Also, you noted that you measured the tanks alkalinity to be zero


REDSTEVEO said:


> 1. PH = 6.80
> 2. KH = 0


Generally, pH measurement, especially with typical probes (I assume you are using a probe because you report the pH to two decimal places as well as a conductivity value) do not function that accurately with zero alkalinity. I believe that even the titration methods (liquids) may also not work as accurately.

I would probably raise the alkalinity a couple of units via addition of potassium carbonate (K2CO3) or potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) just to ensure an accurate pH reading.
You can use JamesC's notes for remineralization of RO water but just use the KH adjustment numbers http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm
at the very bottom:
1.5g NaHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
1.8g KHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
1.2g K2CO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH

Also, as foxfish mentions, you can raise the bubble rate during the photoperiod. I see no need to run the gas over night.

Is this an open top tank or a closed top? You do get faster off-gassing with open top but that just means you need a higher injection rate to compensate.

Cheers,


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## REDSTEVEO (24 Sep 2017)

Thanks again Clive, I'm so glad you are still around on this forum!

Tomorrow I will be adding the buffers to increase the alkalinity KH as you have suggested. There are 400 litres in this tank and it is a closed top. The outlets from the two filters are about an inch below the surface and each pointed at the front glass at a very slight angle, one to the left and one to the right. Even an inch below the surface there is still a fair bit of water agitation at the surface, so there may be a slight gassing off of the CO2. But I expect this to lessen over time as the output from the filters reduces slightly.

There are signs of new leaves forming and sprouting from the Crypts. But one plant I thought I would give a try is a Didiplis Diandra, this has melted completely into oblivion and I don't think there will be any re-emergence of this plant, so £5.99 gone to waste.

I am not planning to add any large structural plants such as Amazon Swords this time around because they just get far too big. I have got 10 Giant Vallis plants running along the back which are doing really well. 

I will keep the LED light setting on low, sunny with cloudy intervals, kept on for six hours a day and see how things go..

Updates to follow.

Cheers,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (25 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> There are 400 litres in this tank and it is a closed top. The outlets from the two filters are about an inch below the surface and each pointed at the front glass at a very slight angle, one to the left and one to the right. Even an inch below the surface there is still a fair bit of water agitation at the surface, so there may be a slight gassing off of the CO2. But I expect this to lessen over time as the output from the filters reduces slightly.
> 
> There are signs of new leaves forming and sprouting from the Crypts. But one plant I thought I would give a try is a Didiplis Diandra, this has melted completely into oblivion and I don't think there will be any re-emergence of this plant, so £5.99 gone to waste.



Hi Steve,
              If this is a 100 gallon tank then 2 bubbles per second is almost negligible. No wonder the plants you mentioned melted. While it is certainly possible to run the tank with low injection rates, for 100G, unless your flow and distribution are epic, it will be very difficult to have newly submerged plants survive the transformation. If it were me I would increase the injection rate to where I could not even count bubbles.

A little agitation at the surface is OK as long as it does not _break _the surface with bubbles.

It's very difficult in a large tank to distribute flow to the bottom. I don't see where you listed the filter specification, but hopefully you did not fill them to the brim with fancy expensive media. This kills your flow rate and is totally unnecessary.

Cheers,


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## Zeus. (25 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> 100 gallon tank then 2 bubbles per second is almost negligible.



Think I have my 10Gal tank on nearly 2 BPS




ceg4048 said:


> increase the injection rate to where I could not even count bubbles.



On my 100Gal the BPS is off the scale, not water lasts in the Bubble counter long, Have been using JBL inline atomizers and its a good job they refil with water as then I can see the coloum of bubbles, think I'm on the fourth or fith 6Kg CO2 bottle this year.


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## REDSTEVEO (25 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi Steve,
> If this is a 100 gallon tank then 2 bubbles per second is almost negligible. No wonder the plants you mentioned melted. While it is certainly possible to run the tank with low injection rates, for 100G, unless your flow and distribution are epic, it will be very difficult to have newly submerged plants survive the transformation. If it were me I would increase the injection rate to where I could not even count bubbles.
> 
> A little agitation at the surface is OK as long as it does not _break _the surface with bubbles.
> ...


Hi Clive,

I was thinking 120 bubbles per minute was maybe too much, ha ha! I based this on articles I remember reading in one of Takashi Amano's books where 60 bubbles per minute seemed to be the norm, and 120 bubbles per minute was the high end of the scale. Filters are 2 x Eheim's one is a Professional 2, the other is a 650 T thermal filter. This time around I have almost halved the volume of filter media in each basket. This is based on your advice from my previous journal 'The Full Monty' personally I am a big fan of Siporax Intered Glass media, and the Eheim Bio Medium Pro.

Wil keep you posted and thanks for the PM on the EI Ferts.


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## foxfish (25 Sep 2017)

I cant really count my bubble rate on my 200l tank (I do have a sump though ) I even modified the BC by drilling out the bubble exit hole.
That is why I use my PH meter to get an idea of how much C02 is going in.
I seem to be able to see when there is enough gas in a new set up, the plants very quickly look more vibrant & it becomes obvious  they are growing.
I learnt many years ago not to be frugal with the gas & except the cost & hassle of changing bottles... its just part of the game.


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## Zeus. (25 Sep 2017)

Did a little vid of BPS on 500Litre/100Gal tank


The higher Rate input is use by the pH controler for boosting and the low rate maintains the 1.0 pH drop


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi Steve,
> What I meant is that you want to avoid having too much light. I've never advocated the use of mega lighting because that's what causes most of our problems.
> I don't know what size tank this is, so I have no idea whether 2 bubbles per second is a lot or not enough.
> 
> ...




Hi Clive,

Based on our recent conversation in which you replied:-

don't recall posting anything specif for 400L but it would simply have been a calculation based on the standard 20 gal dosing, which is:
Sunday 50% or more Water Change then dose [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Monday 1/16 teaspoon CSM+B
Tuesday - [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 1/16 teaspoon CSM+B
Thursday - [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday Rest
Saturday - Rest

So a 400L is around 100 Gal, which is 5 times bigger than the 20 G standard, so just multiply all the numbers by 5. It's that simple.
5*(3/16 teaspoon KNO3) = 15/16 teaspoon so just round to 1 teaspoon 3X per week
5*(1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4) = 5/16 teaspoon so just round to 1/4 teaspoon 3X per week
5*(1/2 teaspoon Epsom Salts) = 5/2 teaspoon so just round to 3 teaspoon 3X per week
5*(1/16 teaspoon micros) = 5/16 teaspoon so just round to 1/4 teaspoon 2X per week.

I have made up a stock solution using your calculations which were based on a 600 ml solution, except I have doubled the solution to 1.2 litres, therefore I just doubled the quantity of powders, so it looks like this.

A 600 ml solution - KNO3 = 2 and a quarter tsp doubled to 4 and a half tsp.
A 600 ml solution - KH2PO4 = 1 and a half tsp doubled to 3 tsp.
A 600 ml solution - MgSO4 = 6 tsp doubled to 12 tsp.

The 1.2 litre stock solution is dosed at 100 MPs 3 X per week.

The CSM+ Stock solution based on your calculations for 300 mls of water was half a tsp, dosed at 25 ml 2 X per week, so I have doubled so it reads:-

600 mls of water with 1 full tsp CSM+ dosed at 50 mls 2 X per week.

I have a feeling I have got this totally wrong confusing myself with doubling the quantities of the powders, and doubling the dosage

One other thing, at the moment I don't have any Calcium Carbonate CaCO3. I have got food grade Calcium Chloride CaCl2 made by Fluval Sea. Would that do the job, is it safe to use?

Thanks and sorry to be a pain!

Cheers,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Sep 2017)

Zeus. said:


> Did a little vid of BPS on 500Litre/100Gal tank
> 
> 
> The higher Rate input is use by the pH controler for boosting and the low rate maintains the 1.0 pH drop




Hi Zeus,

I notice you have got 2 X diffusers whacking in the CO2 there at a tremendous rate on a 500 litre tank. Have you ever used a CO2 testing kit to measure the amount of CO2 in your water, or are you just relying on the colour of the drop checker?

Are they JBL CO2 Diffusers. I've tried them all but gone back to my Dupla 400 CO2 Reactor. No '7 Up' effect, but the reactor does have to be in the tank.

Also, I am slightly confused, you say this is a 500 Litre/ 100 Gal tank, when Clive tells me my 400 litre tank is a 100 Gal tank. This is important when it comes to calculating the dry powders as per my post to Clive above

Cheers,

Steve


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## Zeus. (26 Sep 2017)

REDSTEVEO said:


> I notice you have got 2 X diffusers whacking in the CO2 there at a tremendous rate on a 500 litre tank. Have you ever used a CO2 testing kit to measure the amount of CO2 in your water, or are you just relying on the colour of the drop checker?



yes Very high rate of CO2, but the more I read about CO2/Light and algea from much more knowledgeable and experience scapers and plant growers like D. Wong, Ceg and ShowdawMac the more I understand that what I am trying to achieve needs the highest [CO2] with livestock. To quote 'Ceg' to make the most of CO2 and plants we would be better off having no livestock and get the [CO2] high enough to really get the plants to grow without algae issues.

Drop checker not completely reliable IMO but yellow to nearly clear, Livestock not gasping, Plus use pH controller. Just got a pH pen also, when both controller and pen calibrated with same buffer solutions but give different pHs of tank pre CO2 period and mid photo period.  So all tests not reliable and to be taken with a pinch of salt. Livestock let you know where the limits are Plus the kH of tank varies day to day from WC as water dissolved minerals change and it gets disolved from rocks.



REDSTEVEO said:


> Are they JBL CO2 Diffusers. I've tried them all but gone back to my Dupla 400 CO2 Reactor. No '7 Up' effect, but the reactor does have to be in the tank.



Yes JBL have twin DIY reactors and tank completely Bubble free except from the peraling a few hours after lights on and Twin star. Did some Vids in *Olympus is Calling - twin CO2 reactors fitted *here of some of the testing I did and results bubble wise



REDSTEVEO said:


> Also, I am slightly confused, you say this is a 500 Litre/ 100 Gal tank, when Clive tells me my 400 litre tank is a 100 Gal tank. This is important when it comes to calculating the dry powders as per my post to Clive above



500Litres is 110 imperial gallons
400Litres is 88 imperial gallons

But

500Litres is 132 US gallons
400Litres is 105 US gallons

Hence both are correct but the answer is in the detail

So the yanks think theres are bigger, but we know the truth


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## ceg4048 (26 Sep 2017)

Zeus. said:


> So the yanks think theres are bigger, but we know the truth






REDSTEVEO said:


> I have a feeling I have got this totally wrong confusing myself with doubling the quantities of the powders, and doubling the dosage


Steve, why are you making up solutions for this size tank? Just dump a teaspoon of KNO3 and a quarter teaspoon of KH2PO4 powders into the tank 3X a week and 1/4 teaspoon of the trace mix 2X per week.

The same with any other of the powders. Why complicate your life? It doesn't matter whether you are super accurate or sloppy.


REDSTEVEO said:


> Also, I am slightly confused, you say this is a 500 Litre/ 100 Gal tank, when Clive tells me my 400 litre tank is a 100 Gal tank. This is important when it comes to calculating the dry powders as per my post to Clive above


Again, this question illustrate how folks confuse themselves and cause more trouble than they need. The guy who invented this scheme was American, so of course he uses US Gallons. In any case it would not matter whether you use US or Imperial Gallons. This is an ESTIMATIVE Index. Use whatever gallons you want. It won't really matter. 

The concentrations are guidelines and were written in an era where people were so paranoid of nutrients that they were using zero PPM of nutrients as their reference. So the plants would suffer and algal blooms were prominent. The concentration of nutrients resulting from an EI dosing scheme are so high that even if you are off by 20% or more, you are still vastly higher than if you were attempting to have zero as your goal.

The actual concentration values therefore are not something to fret over once you understand this concept. I mean, think about it; in your 400L tank you do not actually have 400L of water, do you? If you have a lot of rocks, plants and gravel, there might only be about 80% of the tank volume with water in it.

Precision is not the goal here people. The goal is to not run away from nutrition. If you need more then add more. If you can get away with less then use less. Keep it real.



REDSTEVEO said:


> I was thinking 120 bubbles per minute was maybe too much, ha ha! I based this on articles I remember reading in one of Takashi Amano's books where 60 bubbles per minute seemed to be the norm


Here is another example of reading a number and all of a sudden it's as if Moses himself came down from the mountain with some number carved in a stone tablet, pre-ordained by God.

Who _cares _what number Takashi Amano used in his tank? You do not have his tank or his army of acolytes. Use values that work for you. I and Zeus just happen to know from experience what typical values are. If your flow and distribution are excellent, and if your lighting are low then you can get away with a lower injection rate, if not then you'll have to use a higher injection rate.

I reviewed a couple of posts on the forum where some smart ass constantly bitches about our 10X flow rate rule. 
About 10 years ago we realized that flow was a serious issue and we discovered that vendors lie about the flow rate of their filters and pumps for marketing purposes. We simply calculated an empirical correction factor, based on our collective experience, and thus was born the 10X rule of thumb, which went a long way in ensuring that you would get sufficient flow in the tank, even if a vendor lied about his pump, even if you had a lot of tall plants, etc., etc., etc.. 
Did we say that you must always use 10X? No, because it's a _rule of thumb_, just like the fact that having three meals a day is just a rule of thumb, and it's a rule that works pretty well more times than not.

So please do not have an anxiety attack over number here or there. They are only meant to get you near enough to your destination. _You _have to find the car park once you get there.

Cheers,


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## REDSTEVEO (26 Sep 2017)

WOW Oh I do love the lack of the smell of napalm in the morning

Thanks Clive, this makes a hell of a lot of sense and will simplify things greatly. So appreciate you taking the time to reply with such detailed, honest and forthright explanations. 

I blame my 23 plus years in the military for making me so paranoid about exactness and precision, there was no Estimative methodology, do it by the book or get killed, locked up, your backside kicked, or thrown out. Oh those were the days!

I am a lot more relieved now than I was this morning, after the pfaffing about.

Just need to find a good source of calcium carbonate CaCO3 now, only found it online so far.

Take care mate, and thanks ever so much again.

Steve


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## Edvet (27 Sep 2017)

Three times a week i put three teaspoons of KNO3, 1 teaspoon of KHPo4 and one teaspoon of MgSO4 in a liter hot tapwater, stir and put this in my sump. Never measured anything. I just change about 100 liters per day.  Lowish light, no algea. (and two times a week half a teaspoon of micro's).


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## Zeus. (27 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> I and Zeus just happen to know from experience what typical values



 thanks that makes my day. I'm 'standing on the shoulders' of great posts/threads/vids of much more experienced plants growers like yourself m8. Plus whats working at Olympus is Calling my first tank/journal


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## REDSTEVEO (27 Sep 2017)

Edvet said:


> Three times a week i put three teaspoons of KNO3, 1 teaspoon of KHPo4 and one teaspoon of MgSO4 in a liter hot tapwater, stir and put this in my sump. Never measured anything. I just change about 100 liters per day.  Lowish light, no algea. (and two times a week half a teaspoon of micro's).



How many litres had your tank got again?


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## Edvet (27 Sep 2017)

400 gallon Bigger IS better!

Oh and every 3/4 months i do a "deep clean" aka i run the gardenhose in the sump a few hours


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