# Dividing CO2 output using a T-joint



## niru (31 Jan 2011)

Hello Everyone

I was wondering if someone has divided the output froma pressurised CO2 into two (say using a T joint) so that we have two feeds on each side of the tank.

Many thanks

-niru


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

Would you get an even supply through each side if you did that? I've been wondering about it.


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

I was wondering the same, hence the question. If the bps is sufficient then would it help to have 2 CO2 input feeds in the tank, particularly if its reasonably heavily planted with leaves obstructing the full-tank flow..


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## ceg4048 (31 Jan 2011)

Hi,
    Yes it's very easy to do and yes, it sometimes takes a bit of fiddling to get even gas flow through the two diffusers. In large tanks it usually worth the effort.

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

I have tried this using a t-piece, if you use glass diffusers this will never work, as the ceramic disc gets dirty it builds different pressure levels and one will almost stop working completely, if you use a ladder diffuser that might work as there is no pressure built up, I would recommend a needle valve for each.

Have a look here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-way-CO2-Diffuse ... 4ceb7940f3

or here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-way-Brass-CO2-D ... 4cebbb0637


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

Thanks guys!

I was thinking of putting 1 via a ladder and the other side going to the output of the canister via ceramic diffuser (inline). So not much pressure issues I hope.

I have a 180 ltr Juwel Rio more-than-moderately heavily planted tank (I intend to plant heavily with time, since here in Swissland, we dont get great plant variety in LFS. So one needs to wait & grab as they come). I have added an extra Eheim Ecco pro to the existing Juwel Internal. my water is HARD (pH abt 8, kH 11, gH is 18) come what may. Tap water is equally hard. So no matter how much CO2 I add (currently its 5 bps), the DC is always blue (sometimes blue-ish), but never green. I have experimented with ladder, diffuser, adding a small pump to increase the flow, changing the relative output directions of 2 filters + 1 pump.. Not much help...

I am not sure if CO2 goes everywhere. (It would have been great to have a water dye/stainer to check this. A drop or two should show the entire water movement inside. If ever I get spare time perhaps I could make one such & sell to all brothers out there   ). Tank has abt 25 tetras, 4 corys, 5 plattys, 1 SAE and 3 apple snails. So not a heavy load IMO. I get occasional algae (currently a bit of dust algae on glass, waiting for the 3 week period to wipe it off!). EI dosing is automated. 

All in all I am simply not sure if my CO2 is enough, and getting everywhere. Hence this T-joint splitting idea.. If you guys have better options, I am listening


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

If you used an inline ceramic and a ladder, wouldn't the majority of the CO2 come out of the ladder? It takes much more pressure to push CO2 through the ceramic disc, so it may just all come out of the ladder.

I would think that if you were going to split it, each end would need the same back pressure to have a chance of giving even diffusion.


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

If you have enough flow in the tank then the CO2 will reach to all the plants, use a drop checker to measure CO2 levels.

The other option you have is to buy an Up Atomizer http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Up-aqua-CO2-Atomi ... 3a5ceb9eae (make sure you get the right size for your filter pipes) and that will create a fine mist of CO2 and being placed on the return pipe of your filter via the spray bar it will spread everywhere.



			
				niru said:
			
		

> I was thinking of putting 1 via a ladder and the other side going to the output of the canister via ceramic diffuser (inline). So not much pressure issues I hope.


I don't really see this working. As Tom says the CO2 will just exit via the ladder and none via the ceramic disc.


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

Even if the canister flow reduces the pressure inside the inline ceramic tube through which CO2 is diffusing out of the concealed tube? I guessed that the diffusion within the ceramic inline tube is helped (increased) because of the water flowing through it, so that there is less pressure to oppose the CO2 diffusion.

But as always I could be wrong!

-niru


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

As soon you place something on the end of the CO2 tubing versus a ladder with no pressure at all, all the CO2 will go to the ladder. Not sure what you mean by the canister flow reducing the pressure in the ceramic tube????


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

It will still be very uneven, even if some does go through the ceramic. There is no backpressure from a ladder, so the CO2 will take the easiest route (as Paulo says in post 10!!). I think having it inline is just a way to dissolve the microbubbles easier, and keep equipment out of the tank itself.


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

My diffuser is Boyu type. As I recall from school physics, if there is a water flow from within a tube, the internal pressure acting against the tube wall decreases. Since the ceramic diffuser forms "this" wall, there is less opposition to the CO2 wanting to come out.. Perhaps I am clearer now. Sorry for the confusion.


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

I guess there is a little (negligible??) back pressue even in ladder case. After all its a tube through which a bubble is trying to come out . The cross section of the tube faces the pressure from the water column (deeper the tube in the tank, more this pressure). Perhaps one ought to compare this pressure to the one faced inside a diffuser with water flow, though both might be ignorable in absolute numbers..


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

If you are already using a Boyo diffuser then there is no need to add an extra ladder to the inside of the tank. Seems like you have your Boyo in the filter intake inside the tank (correct me if I am wrong), you could try and move it inline to the return after the filter, it works best in this position, rather than the CO2 going inside your filter.


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

Best thing to do would be to try it. I'll stand by my guess for now, but if it works well through both then that's great. If not, you can always stick to the inline on it's own (or split between 2 inline diffusers). If it does work for you, then it would still be my guess that the ceramic diffuser would be slower than the ladder. But I'd be interested in the results if you did try


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

Hello LondonDragon

I kept my diffuser on the output of the canister, but the output of this Dennerle micro-perler is a meshed cap since its intended use is at the canister input-side (& without a possibility to attach it to the spray bar), there was too many bubbles coming out. Perhaps I have to DIY seal a tube to this side as well that can go to the spray bar.

BTW can I keep the boyu horizontal?

Thanks
niru


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

With the Boyo/Up Atomizer you will always get a fine mist in the tank, the only way to eliminate this is to use a CO2 Reactor. Even with the spray bar you would get the fine mist, this is the main reason I purchased an Aquamedic 1000 but in the end I am not even happy with that! I have tried so many CO2 methods that I have given in to the UP Atomizer before the AM1000, still get a mist in the tank but not as much as before, the AM1000 needs to be at least another 10cm longer for it to work efficiently, and yes you can run the boyu on the horizontal!


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Best thing to do would be to try it. I'll stand by my guess for now, but if it works well through both then that's great. If not, you can always stick to the inline on it's own (or split between 2 inline diffusers). If it does work for you, then it would still be my guess that the ceramic diffuser would be slower than the ladder. But I'd be interested in the results if you did try



Thanks Tom! I was checking if someone has already done this & with what results. I will try this, plus check if I can get the UP atomiser around. Swissland is uselessly expensive in these matters and pretty difficult to hunt for stuff. Imagine ebay isnt operating here!!



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> With the Boyo/Up Atomizer you will always get a fine mist in the tank, the only way to eliminate this is to use a CO2 Reactor. Even with the spray bar you would get the fine mist, this is the main reason I purchased an Aquamedic 1000 but in the end I am not even happy with that! I have tried so many CO2 methods that I have given in to the UP Atomizer before the AM1000, still get a mist in the tank but not as much as before, the AM1000 needs to be at least another 10cm longer for it to work efficiently, and yes you can run the boyu on the horizontal!



Oops!! Who would have guessed wet life with plants as partners would be so difficult! 

BTW, just a wild thought: has anyone tried to make carbonated water (not fizzy, just co2 dissolved) separately and then put this as a constant drip, or like a EI automation just many times a day?


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

niru said:
			
		

> Thanks Tom! I was checking if someone has already done this & with what results. I will try this, plus check if I can get the UP atomiser around. Swissland is uselessly expensive in these matters and pretty difficult to hunt for stuff. Imagine ebay isnt operating here!!



I have been very happy with my UP atomoizer. At 1-2bps there are no fine bubbles at all in my tank at all, and I get 100% CO2 dissolved. My drop checker is always yellow now


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

niru said:
			
		

> BTW, just a wild thought: has anyone tried to make carbonated water (not fizzy, just co2 dissolved) separately and then put this as a constant drip, or like a EI automation just many times a day?


Takashi Amano discovered the use of CO2 in the tanks in this exact way, by buying some carbonated water bottles while at a bar and dumping them in the tank when he got home and the plants started pearling. I am not sure this would have the same impact if you dripped it into the tank.


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

You would be having to "drip" a serious amount of fizzy water in!!


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> You would be having to "drip" a serious amount of fizzy water in!!


Would make CO2 seem free in comparison haha


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## niru (31 Jan 2011)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Thats why it was a wild guess!!

So I guess I will remove the mesh-cap from boyu, and seal a tube there. This will go in the outlet side of my canister.. and then spray bar it at a small depressed angle from the top to achieve a circular flow in the tank. And put the o/p of internal filet/power head across this to create maximum turbulence/mixing. 

Thanks all of you for the quick replies!

-niru


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## niru (1 Feb 2011)

Ok People,

update of what I did yesterday: 

I kept the flipper ladder way down in the tank next to the Juwel internal filter, but moved the output of this filter to shoot water over the ladder. Then put a sponge on the input of the powerhead and kept it directly over the ladder top lid. This way, fresh water was seeing the CO2 bubbles, and the bubbles were facing resistance to their upward movement due to the water flow thereby increasing the contact time. Whenever the gas accumulating in the ladder-lid was blurping out, it got caught in the sponge of the powerhead and was again redistributed into the tank.

I am happy to now see my DC turn greenish yellow within about 1 hour of doing this!!


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## mjbarnard (23 Feb 2011)

I bought a very convenient splitter from CS Milne.


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## niru (24 Feb 2011)

Ok Guys

I have been reading with a lot of interest a few other topics on UKAPS, particularly good EI discussions and a very prominent role of CO2 and flow/turnover to maintain a good EI magic etc..

In light of that, and in continuation of my question regarding the T-joint splitting of CO2, I have a new question:

Has anyone done a multiple CO2 dosing in a tank? i.e. split the CO2 output from the cylinder right / pressure reducer output and then pass each tube through a separate buble counter and place two separate CO2 dosers (diffusers, ladders, etc etc) at 2 farthest points in the tank? The definition of farthest being such that this way, even with worsening flow (say due to increasing plant load, leaves obstructing the flow etc etc), all areas of the tank are ensured a good CO2 coverage. For larger tanks the number 2 could be similarly expanded. 

The total bps is then a sum of individual bps, and perhaps with a flow controller, different areas of the tank could be provided differing amounts of CO2 depending on the plants placements.. 

Would be nice to know if professional guys do something for LARGE aquascapings etc..

cheers
-niru


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## niru (24 Feb 2011)

Just to add that this is slightly different than my original question. Then I was planning to divide the CO2 just before it enters the tank.. here the CO2 o/p from the cylinder is divided at source, so no issues about pressure differentials etc..


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## Radik (14 Mar 2011)

I am just looking in to same splitting CO2 

Cylinder > Solenoid > Y splitter:
> Needle Valve - UP Atomizer - 80L tank
> Needle Valve - UP Atomizer (maybe glass diffuser?) - 15L Nano tank

To 2 different tanks next to each other. I just wonder if giving 2 UP atomizers of same size would do the trick having even pressure. Output pressure is 4BAR from Regulator so giving it to max should work. But I am not sure if I would be able to set up different buble rates. Any ideas?


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