# confused again, poorly java ferns ? ferts ?



## Pysgodyn (20 Aug 2017)

Hi All,

more questions from a confused newbie.  (i'll try to give useful background detail)

I have a lowish tech panted tank (juwel int pump)  (2*18w t8), not super heavy planted, but a fair amount there (will get a recent photo later)

well, I got some trident microsorum / java fern a few weeks ago,  as well as some 'mini java fern' from TGM,  whose tanks I think are slightly acidic, but not sure.   has looked fine for a few weeks, no probs initially (apart from trying to find a space to fit  the trident fern in.  mini ferns really look nice and fill the tank out nicely.  

a change the last week however,  the trident is melting badly,   the mini, less so but is also loosing leaves.  
the other taller (older ) java fern I have is also reacting and growing plantlets at the tips,  hadn't really done this in the last 2 months.   Argh !   JF is meant to be robust..... what's gone wrong ?

so,  things I've done in the last 2 weeks,  taken 2 zebra danios out, leaving 4 ottos and 6 WCMM. 
week ago gave the filter sponges a gentle rinse (1st time in 3months) in old tank water.
I also moved my koralia 900 circulation pump (was bottom corner, now top corner)

also I've been failing to get the ottos to eat algae flakes and courgette, so a bit more food leftovers about (i do try to hoover up at water change)

last 3 days i've added 5 'gold' WCMM.  and another 25% water change.  (90 ish litres)
I have turned the tank light on a bit earlier in the day two of three times, so variable light period (normally 6ish hours)

Also dosing 1.5 ml easycarbo everyday and 1-2ml profito every other day.
a little bit more algae in last week, but not loads.

tested the water now,  no noticeble ammonia, or nitrites.   very little nitrates too - barely any reaction on test strip
(i don't have a phosphate test)  ph 7.4,  KH 200ish ppm, GH 250ish pmm

is the trident doomed (i think it's more delicate?), is the rest salvageable ?

Is the low nitrate an issue ? 
(this is 2 days after a water change.)

should I start using a npk macro fert ?   (I'm thinking TNC complete instead of teh profito)

G. 

PS decided I didn't want an air stone/pump as too noisy,  but tempted to add a verturi


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## dan4x4 (21 Aug 2017)

Hi I'm no expert here. I'm sure one will be on it soon to help.

I have loads of needle leaf/narrow leaf java fern in the tank. 

I noticed mine was surviving when I first set the tank up, running same lighting as you (jewel rio 180), like you I also have a power head to increase flow.

I have increased lighting over the last few months from 7 hours to 9 hours a day with a siesta period of 5 hours, also changed ferts to EI dosing and the ferns are doing really good.

How long are your lights on? 

I have a dirt substrate but some of the ferns don't have roots in it and they're doing good just feeding from the water column.


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## dan4x4 (21 Aug 2017)

im not using any kind of liquid carbon or gluteraldehyde. or pressurised co2.


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## Pysgodyn (22 Aug 2017)

hi,

OK, good to read that I should be able to get things working.   yeah, no big issues with circulation i think. 

I also realised yesterday that some of the 'different roots' on a few java fern tips were (i think) staghorn algae !    - I'm such a clueless newbie.
So i've ripped it off what was there as best i could with my fingers, but also noticed what it think maybe algae on the actual roots of some of the plantlets too (as they are hairy!)
Thus I also then double dosed easy carbo  by squirting it using a pipette at the bit with the algae under the water, so maybe it would get worse at least ?.
only the std lowish 1.5mL dose of easycarbo this morning. 

I also noticed that the newish amazon sword is poorly, but the sessiflora thing is growing well (but is putting out lots of side roots)

I'm totally confused by liquid ferts !  there seems to be loads of different approaches, and it seems this is linked to the type of substrate you have, as this will itself add some ferts to the water.  Though even then things seems to vary quite widely. 

EI, if I understand it is adding KH2PO4 + KNO3  that maybe to give roughly 7:2:8  NPK ratio ?.   also it seems to be an 'overdosing' regime that requires minimum weekly 50% water changes ?      

my substrate is a good 5cm of inert small grey gravel over about a 1cm of tropica substrate (seems to be clay based so gives Fe ?).   I think my other plant's roots are possibly stuck in the inert upper bit.   
My pd is 7.5 ish.     so I wonder if i should put some root tabs in the upper gravel while those plants may not have found the lower layer.  
obviously the java fern only gets ferts from the water.

my fish population isn't high and has varied up and down recently.  

my current fert is profito,  which has trace elements and has 0.25% Fe and 1% K.  so at the recomended weekly dose (1ml 10L) seems to give 1 ppm K and 0.25 ppm Fe. ?

I read that staghorn can happen due to poor maintainance (I try to do this !)  too little co2 and too much Fe ?   

lights are on for 6 hours (2-8pm)  a juwel daylight + warmlight 18W T8 with reflectors.  water depth 32cm ish.  

I'll try to post some pictures later


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## Pysgodyn (22 Aug 2017)

drat,   algae now attacking the anubius. 

seem to be all pete tong.


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## Pysgodyn (22 Aug 2017)

so,   should I buy a nitrate and a phosphate liquid (such as the easy life stuff)    and try dosing  them ?  if so to what concentration ? 

I had a look at the TNC complete ingredients and that's 1.5 / 0.2 / 5 % for NPK with a low? 0.08 Fe.  
no idea what  Mr Farmer's aquascaper fert has in it.  
api leafzone is  0 0 3 % NPK and .1 Fe.   

noticeable that 2 of tehse has lower Fe that the profito


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## dan4x4 (24 Aug 2017)

I don't know, I started off using tropica liquid ferts. But then I moved onto dry ferts. I got mine from https://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk they do starter kits. Tells you how much to put in. Or if you google estimative index fert dosing you should find some useful stuff. basically you dose macro and micro alternative days then the 7th is a rest day. the first day is 50% water change.

people change the amounts they are adding to suit there own tank. Like I say I'm no expert but I'm sure somebody on here will know. Maybe post some pictures up.

RE algae, try this video on youtube its got advice on diagnosis and treatment.


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## Cactusface (18 Oct 2017)

Hi,
    I use APF EI ferts, buy them dry and mix yourself very ecconomical? (liquid ferts are 90% water?)  Macro ferts one day, Micro ferts the next, Sunday no ferts but a water change, and I only do about 10%. Yes my Anubius got covered in Algae becase it's a slow grower and needed shading from plants above, but there wern't any (too much light).  I have now added some Otos to the tanks and they are always busy nibbling at the algae.
Regards

Mel.


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## dan4x4 (18 Oct 2017)

Hi don't know if you read the recent thread, but myself and another member had tested Aquarium plant food.com feats and there was no phosphate
 in the starter kit phosphate salts.

I have started using an all in one fert and I'm seeing more growth and less algae.


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## chrisjohnson (18 Oct 2017)

I used to use easy life carbon and profito. But I've now changed to the TNC complete and TNC carbon in my low tech tank and the plants have significantly improved. I Dose 3ml of carbon an 2ml of complete per day.


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