# Seven Moss Cube



## Joel S (14 May 2013)

This will hopefully be a journal documenting my 30cm desktop tank, and a little experimental side-project.

I've found a few pics of old tanks to post too, once the spam filtering lets me post pics


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

I recently moved house and I knew that I'd miss the view out over tree-tops that I had in my last home. (even though now I do have access to a lovely garden round the back).

I've kept planted aquariums on and off for the last 18 years or so (off more than on in the recent past). Some more high-tech than others. Here are a few that I've found old photos of:




 
60cm, yeast and sugar CO2, flourescent light. Can't remember much more. 2003?



 
45cm, yeast and sugar CO2, Halogen light? 2003



 
45cm, pressurised CO2 (rented from pub supplier), modified Pod and Ikea lamps (3x 11w bulbs). 2008-ish



 
Close up from that stage.



 
Same 45cm tank about a year or more later. CO2 very, very low dose. Glass top fitted. Left entirely alone for months on end..



 
And this is my current 30cm bow fronted cube, 10 or 11 days after planting (filter running for a little before then). I planned to make it much more slow-growing and low tech, but I got carried away with what was available at London suppliers and on Ebay  

Now that I've come down with a cold or summat or other, and have otherwise gone slow, it seems to be the right time to put a journal together…


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

The tank is an AquaStart 320, which I bought because the local shop in Walthamstow had them at a very reasonable price and I could see how my existing Eden 501 filter and small heater would fit well with it.

Here it is about three weeks ago, running the filter in with a few bunch plants and rocks tied with moss (standard type java moss of whatever kind it was they had grown themselves at the LFS). At that point I was waiting for an order from The Green Machine.


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

A week or so later my Green Machine order of ADA Amazonia powder, gravel, a piece of Redmoor root, and mosses arrived. I tied the root with Taxiphylum Barbieri, Taxiphylum Barbieri Flame, Christmas moss, and the generic Java moss, using black nylon thread.


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## Iain Sutherland (14 May 2013)

a great selection of lovely tanks there joel, most look bigger than they are.
very well done and look forward to seeing the new one grow in.


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

From the side:


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## Ady34 (14 May 2013)

Really nice tanks there Joel.
All with yeast co2 too which is more impressive.
The latest tank looks really nice, look forward to following your journal.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

Thanks Iain and Ady,
The early ones I made in Cornwall in days when nobody knew who Takashi Amano was and CO2 injection was more like a myth. This current one is setup using a Sodastream bottle and an adaptor to fit it to the regulator and solenoid that I bought a few years ago. When I first fitted it to the Sodastream I was blasé and wasted probably half a tank by not fitting it carefully enough. Now it seems to be working fine, though the adaptor is aluminium and the thread doesn't seem like it'll last forever.



 
More plants from Aquatic Design Centre in Great Portland St central London, about 10 days ago.


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

The experimental side-project I mentioned:


 

Moss (a big bag of what was being called Christmas moss at Wholesale tropicals in Bethnal Green) and plants tied to a ball of stones, clay, and Sphagnum moss. (The clay is taken from what Green Machine uses as substrate balls for Wabi Kusa, but when it arrived I had been reading that ADA Wabi Kusa is more like just a weighted ball of Sphagnum, so I used some of the clay under the Amazonia in the 30cm and just a little bit with the stones in this.

The plan is to just leave this to see how it goes. I like the idea of letting the plants do their thing in the Wabi Kusa stye, but submersed rather than emersed.



 
A few days later. The light is an Ikea clip on LED. There are a lot of things that could go wrong here I know, but currently it looks more natural than the 30cm cube!


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

30cm about 11 days after planting. The lighting is an 11w daylight bulb from BLT direct, plus a 9w daylight in a Pod that I had lying around, and at the back 48 daylight LEDs and 24 blue ones. The LEDs are the waterproof type used on the bottom of cars and available on ebay for next to nothing. They aren't too bright but I'm hoping they will help get some more light at the back, where the design of the hood blocks the main light.

Fauna is now Red Cherry shrimp (some large ones and some very tiny ones from when I discovered that the Freshwatershrimp headquarters is ten mins from my house!), Amano shrimp, Green Neons, and Otocinclus. Plus many snails that came in with LFS moss.

In the first few days I was quite alarmed by the slime that grew on the Redmoor root, but found online that this is quite standard. I couldn't fit the wood in any of our pans to boil it, so it went straight in - weighted by stones tied on with the moss (very fiddly and annoying). I've used some liquid carbon on the slime which seems to have made it go away quicker, but the I read that this is not good for Fissidens moss and Riccardia, which I had just got from ebay and planted in the same area. It's true that the Riccardia in particular has gone white where it was in contact with the liquid carbon and the slime, so now I'm leaving it to see how it goes on it's own -the Riccardia is already growing back over this area so hopefully it's ok.


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## Joel S (14 May 2013)

As it stands. You can just about make out the mentioned white area in the centre of the Redmoor, but it's hardly noticeable and the growth all round it is good.


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## Joel S (15 May 2013)

I'm considering getting a TMC mini led 400 light for this set up, with mount bracket and controller. I think there's easily enough light here already, but I love the idea of being able to control the light level on the timer. And since this tank is partly a replacement for a view out over treetops I'd like to be able to see it from this angle, and maybe let some of the stem plants emerge:



I'm also keen to get using a full led setup as it's got to be the future. I already feel odd enough about sitting around worrying about the environment while pumping electricity into a tank full of plants and creatures that've been shipped all over the world...

Has anybody used Holiday Aquatics for equipment? Also, does anyone using the Mountaray bracket know if it's likely to fit the thick plastic edging on this tank? I'm sure I can modify if not, but I'd rather not have to.


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## fish fodder (15 May 2013)

Hi, the mountaray won't fit over the plastic I'm afraid, There is literally enough space to slide onto bare glass


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## Joel S (15 May 2013)

Thanks! I had come to this conclusion too, but it's good to have it confirmed. I also think it might sit too far forward for this tank anyway, and look a bit large too. I'm thinking of ways I could hang it or mount another way. I'm sure I can come up with something -either a bracket for the tank edge, or one on the wall, or a even a board fitted behind the tank with a bracket on it.


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## Joel S (16 May 2013)

Turns out it's much easier to take macro pics with an iphone than it is to take a shot of the whole tank...


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## mike455555 (17 May 2013)

wow stunning tanks looking forward to seeing this one evolve more


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## andyh (17 May 2013)

Great Nano, loks great, i like the detail of the plants!


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## jon32 (17 May 2013)

Great tanks Joel, love this latest one!

I see what you mean about the plastic trim now, yep no way that bracket would fit without modifying. Like you say.. hang it or piece of wood/ brackets on the wall would work.


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## Joel S (17 May 2013)

Hmm... the Aquaray 400 arrived and on first look, just by eye, at 100% it doesn't seem as bright as the current setup. Not sure what to do, from other threads I was kind of expecting not to even have to run it at 100%


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## Joel S (17 May 2013)

What's annoying is that the Aquaray 400 comes very close. In person it seems a fraction warmer, and obviously has all the shimmer and shadow points etc of an LED. But to get a similar light level I'd have to mount it really near the surface, which would defeat a good deal of the initial object.





I could try it out for a while, but I'm loathe to do that because I haven't yet built a mounting bracket, and while I think it's capable of growing what's in the tank, the plants are doing so well with the current setup!

I had planned on going lower-light/slower-growth later on, so I could wait a bit and set it up later with plants that I'm sure would do ok. The shame is this was how I'd imagined the tank initially, before I got carried away. But I'm really enjoying the way they're growing at the moment.

I could return it (stressing because I very slightly tore the box when opening it), and get the Grobeam 1500 to go with the controller (using the controller was probably the main thing that sold me on the idea in the first place. But that's a lot more money (especially as I wasn't planning to buy the 400 until I had a sudden urge!) and I wouldn't run it at full. Also that tile would look pretty massive over this tank...


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## jon32 (17 May 2013)

It will be plenty bright enough to grow any plant, I'm growing HC @ 65%. But if you don't like how bright it looks compared to your other light at 100% it may be best to stick with what you have - it seems to be working well enough! Grobeam 1500 might look a bit overkill over this tank though.


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## Joel S (17 May 2013)

Yes, typically for me it's not broken so I've spent a load of money to fix it! And you're right, I've no idea how I'd mount the 1500.
For all I know the plants might like this LED better, but it feels risky to change what's working so well at the moment. I guess I could wait a while, and turn to ebay if I decide I don't want the Aquaray 400 in the end, instead of returning it (it'd be a real hassle to return the whole lot as the controller came from a different supplier).


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## Joel S (17 May 2013)

Interestingly, after just 15 mins with the led balanced over the tank, the foreground plants seem to have actually increased their pearling. Clearly I need to experiment and not necessarily trust my eyes...


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## jon32 (17 May 2013)

Joel S said:


> Interestingly, after just 15 mins with the led balanced over the tank, the foreground plants seem to have actually increased their pearling. Clearly I need to experiment and not necessarily trust my eyes...


From what I've learn't so far about led's this seems to be the case..


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## Joel S (20 May 2013)

Homemade hanger for led tile. Hacked from a Wilcos £3 curtain rail. Just waiting for some black tubing to cover up the botched bend.
To hang the tile I've cut a sliver of 2mm perspex, (from the same piece that I'm making a cover for when the tank needs leaving alone), drilled holes in that, fitted a couple of bits of wire, slid it into the groove on top of the tile and tied onto the hanger. Will do a neater job of the wire when the support is finished.

Plants are pearling like mad under this light, so long as the water is changed regularly.

Meanwhile the bowl seems to be quietly, slowly thriving in our cold kitchen (there are two tiny cherry shrimp in there, though I'm not sure they're getting on with the temp).




I've rigged up one of the waterproof led strips as a moonlight/extra light. Stuck just under the front of the tank rim so it's invisible from almost all angles. To be honest it's too bright as moonlight effect, so I might re-think. But it makes the Green Neons look amazing in the evening (photo doesn't do it justice).





And now the top of the tank is open I have plans for these cheap offcuts of redmoor that I got at ADC on Saturday.


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## Joel S (22 May 2013)

Yikes!

So, I went to pick out a couple of Hygrophila leaves that had suddenly appeared in the foreground of the tank, and I jumped because the leaves had weight and mass and a spongey feel. I put them in a jar and they behaved like this!

Anyone have any idea what this thing is? (It does come into focus a couple of times).
I mean it looks like a caterpillar, but I've never found one underwater before. I've had plenty of other beasties appear, and damselflies hatching out etc, but not this.


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## Wallace (22 May 2013)

eeek! 

Kill it with fire!

Haven't got a clue what it is, other than a caterpillar. A quick google search throws up a variety of names etc but most say its harmless, other than eating your plants. Most say it will eventually transform and fly out of your tank. 

Keep a hold of it in the jar and see what happens with it, I've never seen or heard of an aquatic / underwater caterpillar so am interested to see what it does.


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## Mr. Teapot (22 May 2013)

Is it a caddisfly larvae?


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## Joel S (22 May 2013)

I didn't think it was a caddisfly, coz I thought I knew what they looked like, but this google image is actually fairly close:



My guy is much greener, and doesn't appear to have forelegs. The behaviour with the leaves seems to tally though.


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## Lindy (22 May 2013)

Maybe they can mimic the colour of their environment and tunnel material to a degree. I thought caddis fly as soon as I saw it...


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## Mr. Teapot (22 May 2013)

I think he's really great whatever he is! You should keep him and us all updated on his progress.

I've often thought about starting a preserving jar on the window sill full of Daphnia and larvae with loads of moss and twigs. I used to do it every summer when I was a kid.


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## Joel S (22 May 2013)

Well, he's gone out into the garden into a tub full of daphnia. Who knows if I'll ever see him again!

Here's a pic I took during a waterchange. Just before other changes...





These are the other changes so far...



Newly tied weeping moss and Taiwan moss on more redmoor, and tall HG, a couple of Crypt Balansae, more space for the Vallis Nana, and just a few stem remnants behind.
Think I might persuade the Hydrocotle to take over from the HC patches too, since the HC isn't doing too great. I know it's very early days, but all this fiddling about is with a view to making the tank need less fiddling about in future, and to back-track on how carried away I got in the beginning...

The wood looks over-imposing in the photo, but I really like the depth and nooks and crannies in person. Should hopefully soften a lot as the moss fills in too.


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## stemag (22 May 2013)

great looking tanks joel


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## Mr. Teapot (23 May 2013)

With all the excitement over your unknown resident I forgot to say how lovely your tank is looking!  That low angle shot looking up is breathtaking. I can only hope my plants are going to be even half as healthy as yours.


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## Joel S (23 May 2013)

Thanks! 

The unknown resident was almost definitely a Rhyacophila Fuscula or Green Sedge Caddisfly. Well, that's what I reckon after a bit of google work. Apparently the head only changes colour when they're older. Also maybe that wasn't even the head, but the tail end. They're from the states, but I think they're already naturalised here, so I guess I'll leave it out in the garden.

The only real things in this tank that are different to tanks I've done in the past are ADA amazonia soil and some Tropica 1-2 grow plants (and now LED lighting, but that's only just gone on). I think the fact that I'm doing 25% water changes every 2nd day is probably the main reason things are going smoothly so far. It was a shame to take the Red Ludwigia out (most of it), but it doesn't look as good under this LED and also the growth rate was out of control. I think the new background will take quite a while to fill in, but the big mossy wood is the main attraction anyway.

I'm planning to try an Up Aqua inline atomiser, mainly to get the diffuser out of the tank, but also so as to not have to clean it every 2 weeks. 

I've also got plans to try DIYing a mini surface skimmer. I might try running the drop checker outside the tank by siliconing a tube onto it, too.


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## dw1305 (23 May 2013)

Hi all,


Joel S said:


> I mean it looks like a caterpillar, but I've never found one underwater before


Because of the way the leaf is folded over I think it is probably a caterpillar. We have a few in the UK that are aquatic and make very similar tubes.

This is a common one in the UK, the "Brown China Mark" (_Elophila nymphaeata_): <Brown China-mark  Elophila nymphaeata - UKMoths> the larval case in the additional pictures.

cheers Darrel


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## Joel S (23 May 2013)

Oh, yes. Actually that's more like it!


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## Joel S (28 May 2013)

A few pics. Apologies, they're iPhone ones (sometimes cropped and sharpened in PS). That's all I've got. Embarrassing really, given the general quality of photography on this forum...





























I've got a little experiment going since these pics. A mini, directional spray-bar/outlet that I've made in an attempt to improve flow/CO2 distribution. If it's any use I'll put up some photos, or a drawing.


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## Joel S (31 May 2013)

Quick pic as it's four weeks from first planting. The big bit of wood, which was planted about 10 days ago is just starting to lose the 'freshly tied' look, which is very satisfying. (Amazing how the 1-2 grow moss turns dark green on planting, before growing, and after having arrived looking so pale and yellow). Having boiled the wood, and soaked it, AND painted it with liquid carbon prior to putting it in the tank, I seem to have avoided slime this time around.

All else is growing ok (ignoring the slow starters at the back) but the little patches of HC not so well. Oh, and the Green Neons seem to like to eat the new growth on the Pearl Grass. (That's blanched courgette on the right, to keep the Otos happy, which it really seems to, certainly more than my tinkering with the CO2 levels does).



I've made a DIY mini outlet with two holes drilled at angles to get the flow down to the substrate (and to add a little bit of ripple to the surface). Currently it's got a Fluval diffuser underneath it so the tank is quite fizzy during the day. Hopefully that whole setup will be more elegant when my inline atomiser arrives, but we'll see. When I come to clean the filter that outlet will probably prove a bit too forceful, and I'm wary of it blocking up too, but anyway.

I'm going to start dosing 3ml Neutro+ daily. Currently I'm experimenting with a Peace Lily in a pot growing out of the top, which'll probably end up stealing all of that!

Still trying to get a balance with the light level, photoperiod, and the ambient light in the room (got some GSA on the glass, though not masses).

The Pogostemon Stellata will obviously have to go because it'll want to be too big, though it seems very happy. I'd like to get hold of some Eleocharis Vivipara instead, to go with the other grasslike things at the back.

Blah blah...


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## Ady34 (1 Jun 2013)

Looking really nice Joel and filling in really naturally. 
Cheerio,
Ady


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## Ady34 (1 Jun 2013)

Oh, why not try pogostemon erectus instead of the stellata? it has a more delicate leaf formation which reminds me of pine trees a little and would suit nicely the rear.....just a thought


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## Joel S (1 Jun 2013)

Thanks Ady,
Pogostomon Erectus looks almost the same doesn't it? I wonder if that's actually what I already have, although the leaves on mine are slightly serrated. I thought about Mayaca as an even finer version too, but I'm also wanting to go for less stem plants in general, mainly because it's fiddly to maintain behind the wood there.


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## sanj (2 Jun 2013)

Joel, you have a natural talent in this sphere of planted tanks... no more off and on keeping, keep going all the time


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## Joel S (4 Jun 2013)

Started to worry that the sodastream canister would run out the other day, and lo the very next day the pressure had dropped below 50. So, I've gone back to renting from London Beer Gas because it seemed simplest and cheapest in the long run (3.15kg canister). I didn't like using the sodastream because it has no valve of it's own, and anyway if I disregard the refundable deposit this canister is over seven times as much co2 for only twice the price.

Currently I have a black rubber o-ring on the regulator seal. This one came spare with the Sodastream adaptor, and the old regulator one, which was plastic of some sort, was cracked. It hasn't leaked in six weeks on the Sodastream. Should I try to get a plastic one? Or just monitor for leaks now and again. I've used a little petroleum jelly on it both times, as recommended by the Sodastream adaptor supplier.

My Up Atomiser arrived today, but I can't fit it because the high-pressure bubble counter/check valve that I ordered hasn't (and could take anywhere from a day to another month). I guess, if it works, I'll need to order another spare atomiser because they must need cleaning, even if not as often as an internal diffusor. Nobody in the UK seems to have the smallest model in stock.


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## Joel S (4 Jun 2013)

Oh also, I'm trying an experiment with running the Aquaray controller on a timer. Letting the internal battery remember the settings overnight when it's off. This way I hope to be able to have it set to minimum 1% moonlight morning and evenings for however long I want (but not all night), and have the lights ramp up to 100% coinciding with the ambient light in the room. Just depends how long the internal battery lasts I guess, though it is essentially just a tiny digital clock that's not even displaying when unplugged.

For a few days I'm trying to get the background plants going with an extra 9w pod light too.


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## Mr. Teapot (4 Jun 2013)

Hi Joel, I have my controller working exactly the same way - 1% minimum but turned off for 8hrs during the night by a separate timer. With the cost of these units I was really surprised they don't allow multiple events over a 24hr period - even my £5 timer from B&Q does this! Haven't had any problems over the past month with turning off the power everyday but do have a nagging doubt this may shorten the life of the unit.


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## Joel S (4 Jun 2013)

Ha! Yes I was surprised you couldn't do it any other way. Also that the 240min ramp up/down takes 230mins on mine! (got it on 60 at the moment anyway). I opened up the controller to see if the battery is replaceable and it is, (it's a CR2032), so hopefully running that down is the only damage we're doing. What ramp and photoperiod are you running? I think everything I'm trying is too long, but so far has just resulted in a touch of GSA on the glass.


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## Mr. Teapot (4 Jun 2013)

I reckon you must have your light set just right - all your plants are looking super healthy!

I'm on a 5hr photoperiod and a 15min ramp, probably going to take this up to 6hrs in a week or two to see if the extra hour has any adverse effects. Really love the 1% - in ambient daylight it gives just enough light to give a clear view and minimise the glass reflections and at night the tank has a nice glow.  

Great you opened up the cover and found a replaceable battery… fingers crossed!


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## Joel S (4 Jun 2013)

Thanks! To be honest I've been monkeying about with the photoperiod since the very start, but so far most of the plants have forgiven me...


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## Joel S (5 Jun 2013)

Very tempted to get a DSLR camera, and more than double the cost of an already expensive project...
Layout thoughts are influencing my sketching too, I think. This is of a meadow at Walthamstow Marshes:


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## flygja (6 Jun 2013)

Absolutely stunning! I would be well pleased with that.


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## darthpaul (6 Jun 2013)

Which controller are you using for your Aquaray 400? I have just added one of these to my Fluval Ebi, would love to do lower light levels outside the photoperiod.


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## Joel S (6 Jun 2013)

Hiya, it's the small two channel one. It isn't cheap for what it is!


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## darthpaul (6 Jun 2013)

So I see! costs more than the light tile!!


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## Joel S (6 Jun 2013)

Yup, the only up side is you can use it to run more than one later on. Or to run 1 or 2 larger 1000 or 1500 type tiles instead (I think).


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## Piece-of-fish (7 Jun 2013)

Great looking watercube 
London beer gas is great, you wont regret it. Always next day free refills to your door. Never failed. Using them for more than 2 years now with 3 6kg bottles. Couple extra £ to start with but well worth it.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (8 Jun 2013)

Nice !!!!


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## Joel S (13 Jun 2013)

Up atomizer installed, Eleocharis Vivipara newly planted (after seven days in the post, so we'll see how it does! Some Micranthemum Umbrosum certainly didn't respond well and I've only put in a couple of sprigs).


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## Joel S (13 Jun 2013)

Oh also, I might be getting the use of my late grandfather's DSLR. I don't currently know what it is, or quite remember when he first got it, but fingers crossed it might be of use.


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## Joel S (13 Jun 2013)

So, this is the tank just after the CO2 goes off, after a day of being cloudy and fizzy with bubbles from the Up Atomizer. I think the majority of the bubbles are CO2 caught in the plants, rather than pearling. As you can see the drop checker is not quite lime green, even here at the end of the photoperiod. 

I'm wondering about trying the Atomizer on the intake rather than the outflow. I know that some people have done this successfully, but this Eden 501 filter is rather small so I worry that it could get noisy and/or impede flow. Thoughts, anyone?


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## Joel S (17 Jun 2013)

Found these two baby Cherrys while trimming the HG yesterday. No great surprise for anyone who has kept Cherrys, but satisfying!


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## Joel S (17 Jun 2013)

Oh dear. I seem to have just clicked order on a Dennerle Scaper's Tank for low-tech project I thought was an idle daydream! Maybe I should start a different journal for that project...


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## Ady34 (17 Jun 2013)

Joel S said:


> Oh dear. I seem to have just clicked order on a Dennerle Scaper's Tank for low-tech project I thought was an idle daydream! Maybe I should start a different journal for that project...


MTS......it gets us all!


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## Joel S (17 Jun 2013)

Oh no. MTS! As an amateur musician I already suffer from IAS (Instrument Acquisition Syndrome). A couple of expensive syndromes they are too .

Just visited Ed at Freshwater Shrimp round the corner (he was busy packing the weekend's orders) and picked up some great little pieces of Manzanita and Seiru.


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## Joel S (20 Jun 2013)

This is about week 7 since planting, though the moss at the top is younger (it has about equal growth as the rest has been trimmed, and it gets more light.

I don't think the Up Atomizer is going to be a long term thing. I've got some other ideas which I'll describe if I decide to go ahead. The small amount of HC is growing now though, and not yellowing at the base, which I put down to the Atomizer, the flow, and the higher dosage of ferts (using Neutro+ from Aqua Essentials for simplicity's sake). If I trimmed back the plants around it even more I could probably really get it going.

The background needs work. There's enough planted there to fill it out, but it's slow because of my layout and the lack of light.

I've just started a new journal for my kitchen table low/semi-low tech tank: Crypt's Palace. Partially planted for 1 day now! It's hopefully going to be really interesting running low and high tech alongside one another.


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## Joel S (23 Jun 2013)

Was going to post about my woes re. differing CO2 injection techniques, obsession, and faff, but instead:

Another Monster! Anyone know what this is? It's got orange eyes, and has appeared in my little low-tech Wabi-Kusa bowl.





Very hard to photograph with a phone, but I had a go:


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## Joel S (23 Jun 2013)

I thought it wasn't a dragonfly because of the short abdomen, but googling I see that quite a few do have nearly such compressed abdomens.


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## Joel S (26 Jun 2013)

I'm not happy with the background planting behind the wood. I don't think it'll ever achieve the density it needs (to hide the heater and intake among other things), so I'm planning to move most of the H. Vivipara and all the C. Balansae plants (which are still just babies) into my low tech tank and try a load of Rotala spec. Green I've ordered from Ebay. Planning to bank up a little more gravel before I plant it so that the light hasn't so far to penetrate.

I've been struggling with getting the drop checker to even approach lime-green, no matter what method of diffuser. I've ended up going back to the glass diffuser now, and have also stopped chasing micro-bubbles, since it's either a fizzy mess, or only mildly effective. Today, with a combination of somewhere around 6-7 bps, (on such a small tank that seems pretty crazy, though it is London tap, and it is pretty heavily planted) I actually managed to push it slightly too far and achieve a yellow drop checker just as the co2 went off. The Ottos didn't look all that happy about it, though still happier than when battling through Atomizer fizz. I have also dropped the temp slightly (to about 22) which might've made the co2 level easier to achieve. I've also raised the light up a little. I'm looking to get optimal co2, but slow the whole thing down slightly. More the way Amano tanks seem to be set up.


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## Joel S (26 Jun 2013)

Oh yeah, I managed to siphon out the dragonfly nymph from the bowl and put it out in the tub in my garden.


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## Joel S (29 Jun 2013)

After 3 consecutive days of big water changes, plants are finally pearling again. I suspect a build up of some kind, presumably from the daily dosing of ferts (though it could be something else).
After several days, a week maybe even, chasing my tail, trying to get enough co2 in, I suddenly had to turn it down after the last change. Either there was an awful lot in the tap water, or maybe hard tap water + too many ferts added up to too much dissolved solids to get the drop checker to change. Anybody think that's possible? I did slow the water changes down a bit right around the time I started dosing Neutro+ (but not all that much).


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## Joel S (1 Jul 2013)

A quick trim at lunchtime turned into a marathon. At least it seemed so from the amount of effort. I decided to trim now while I've got new things (Pogostemon Erectus, Crypt Undulatus Brown, Hottonia Palustris, and HM cuttings) starting at the back.



And yet, after a lot of snipping and netting and syphoning, it looks almost the same as before I got the scissors out...



Some buried HC and Riccardia is revealed though.


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## Joel S (3 Jul 2013)

​

​A portion of Microsorum "Needleleaf" I bought from JohnC has made a big difference to the feel of the tank! For now it's given a similar feel to what I'd hoped the C. Balansae would do (that was so slow that I moved it to another tank).​ 
Otherwise things are looking a bit shell-shocked from trimming, and I've got some Crypt melt on the C. Lutea presumably from fiddling about with co2 etc recently. A shame, as until now it's grown beautifully.


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## Joel S (6 Jul 2013)

Continuing Crypt melt, BBA on some moss areas, Otos that don't like the same co2 levels as the plants, and Green Neons that have gotten into biting the heads off Cherry Shrimp. Sigh. 

At one point I was easily able to count 17 new shrimplets, but I don't know how long those'll last now the Neons have developed a taste for them.


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## Joel S (6 Jul 2013)

Mind you, so far it's the big ones they have  taste for!


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## WetElbow (7 Jul 2013)

Love this tank.  Very natural and appeals to me.  Big things come in small packages.

One of the top tanks at the moment on this forum.


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## Joel S (7 Jul 2013)

Thanks! That's nice to hear while I'm struggling with a few problems. Stability is an issue with such a tiny tank, particularly if you keep tinkering with stuff.


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## Joel S (7 Jul 2013)

Since the Ottos really object to the current co2 levels (hanging about listlessly near the surface) my plan is to raise the light a little, and set the tile to 70%. Plus maybe add a tiny bit more liquid carbon daily (bearing in mind I have to leave the tank for a few days at the end of the week). I'm wondering whether the BBA (and maybe staghorn) and the crypt melt points toward the plants preferring microbubbles of co2 flowing over them rather than the current higher levels of totally dissolved co2.

About a week ago there will have been a bit of a dip while I tried some different ways to diffuse the co2, and there are various other possibilities so I don't really know why there is this current sense of stagnation. Can't really fiddle more with flow and diffusion (short of turning down  co2 enough to save the Ottos) for now, so fingers crossed that dimming the light will stop things from getting too bad. Perhaps when I'm away I'll leave the light even more dimmed.

I'll try feeding the Neons a fraction more, but I think really the problem is that they're too big for this titchy tank and I'm not sure they'll go back to treating the shrimp kindly.


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## LancsRick (7 Jul 2013)

I'm sure someone with experience on high tech will be along shortly, but from my understanding, my approach would be this. Raise your light as you've suggested, ditch the LC, and lower your CO2 slightly until the fauna are happy. My personal view is that if you've got fauna in a tank, they're living things, and they above all else should dictate the conditions. Once they are happy, keep the CO2 at that level, and gradually lower the light. Once you start getting negative plant/algae indications in the tank, raise the light again a bit, and you should have balance.


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## Joel S (7 Jul 2013)

Thanks. Why would you ditch the LC? Bearing in mind I've been dosing below recommended levels and am only now dosing at recommended level.


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## LancsRick (7 Jul 2013)

My understanding is that if you're using CO2, then there's no reason to dose LC unless you have an algae issue. If you have an algae issue, then dosing LC is just treating the symptom rather than addressing the root cause. Plus most fauna (and flora actually) are less tolerant to LC in some cases than to CO2.


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## Joel S (7 Jul 2013)

Oh ok, my understanding was LC is a way you can bolster carbon levels to make sure there isn't a short fall, unless you've got flora or fauna that are extra sensitive to it (sensitive shrimp, Vallis etc). It's not really just treating the symptom if the root cause is a short fall of carbon, although I take your point about balancing light levels to fauna's tolerance of co2 first. I've been dosing LC at 3/4 recommended level since the start of the tank with no ill effects (bar some damage to Riccardia right at the beginning when I painted it on directly to treat fungus on the wood). It seems unlikely it is the cause of the Otto's behaviour currently, since the level has been stable since almost the start.


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## Joel S (7 Jul 2013)

I did just discover, while moving the outlet to disturb the surface a little more since I don't have the co2 right for the fish yet, that part of my DIY outlet was blocked, which means the flow won't have been doing what I thought it was, which won't have been helping matters.


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## Joel S (8 Jul 2013)

Getting overgrown...





Ludwigia growing deep red in a tin tub in the garden. A few weeks ago the water was pea-soup green until I put in two small willow branches. The green water cleared within 8 hrs, it was amazing.


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## LancsRick (8 Jul 2013)

Willow branches? That's a new one on me Joel, would you mind sharing please? Thanks!


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## Joel S (8 Jul 2013)

Well, it's something I'd read about on a few threads here and there. Mostly trying to establish whether it would work to clear green water or not. Those threads all seemed inconclusive.

Since this pond/tub is just a place for me to keep daphnia and the odd plant in the garden (Daphnia would probably prefer the water green, but never mind), I remembered the idea when walking by a weeping willow in a nearby park so I grabbed a couple of small sprigs and popped them in one evening. I wasn't expecting any kind of immediate result, presuming that they'd need to put down roots etc, so I was astonished when I looked the next morning and found the water totally clear. Nothing else had changed. The sprigs then all but died, though one now has some small leaves, but the water's stayed clear ever since, even though the tub has had a lot more sunshine than when the water first went green. May all be a coincidence, but as I said nothing else was changed then or since.


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## Joel S (20 Jul 2013)

A little calmer since I dropped the light level and removed the Ottos to another tank. Green Neons still there, just hiding for the photo. Have brought the light back up from 50% now I'm back from being away but only to 65%. BBA growing up the glass CO2 pipe, right in the flow, but not so much anywhere else.


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## Joel S (13 Aug 2013)




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## Gill (13 Aug 2013)

Joel S said:


> Well, it's something I'd read about on a few threads here and there. Mostly trying to establish whether it would work to clear green water or not. Those threads all seemed inconclusive.
> 
> Since this pond/tub is just a place for me to keep daphnia and the odd plant in the garden (Daphnia would probably prefer the water green, but never mind), I remembered the idea when walking by a weeping willow in a nearby park so I grabbed a couple of small sprigs and popped them in one evening. I wasn't expecting any kind of immediate result, presuming that they'd need to put down roots etc, so I was astonished when I looked the next morning and found the water totally clear. Nothing else had changed. The sprigs then all but died, though one now has some small leaves, but the water's stayed clear ever since, even though the tub has had a lot more sunshine than when the water first went green. May all be a coincidence, but as I said nothing else was changed then or since.


 
AFAIK willow also has some medicinal value towards inhabitants.


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## Joel S (13 Aug 2013)

Well, I suppose one species is where we get Aspirin from...


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## Joel S (14 Aug 2013)

Couple of daytime test shots. After much deliberation I bought a Sony NEX 5r camera. Hopefully it lets me take ok aquarium shots while being portable enough to use for work and general compact camera type use. Top one is with extra fluorescent lighting and an ISO of about 400, bottom one is with ISO 1600 and just the LED at about 40% as it starts up this morning (but a bit of hairdryer action!)


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## Joel S (21 Aug 2013)

Have submitted some pics similar to this one to the AGA. I'm happiest with the layout that I've been, but the plants are less healthy than they were a couple of months ago. Mainly I'm struggling with BBA, which I think started when I was fiddling with co2 around then, and has continued probably because I've been lax with water changes. Too many big ones at the wrong times of day for stability at first, and then recently just not often enough.

Considering a re-scape, and possibly a rimless tank as this one is annoying to maintain, but I'd like to be on top of the BBA before then or I think it'll just come back. Also I need to take the Green Neons back to the LFS (if I can), as they munch on all new growth, which is not helpful.


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## Joel S (29 Aug 2013)

I've dismantled this tank now, and replaced it with an Optiwhite cube the same size. Here is the Journal for that tank: Roots and Lava.

(I'll put any updates of the planted bowl that I've shown occasionally on this journal into that one).


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