# WORLD WAR 3???



## InNi2010

🥺 Please.. please no war
Families are scared and it is an APOCALYPTIC SITUATION .
PLEASE STOP THE FIGHTING
Please please please


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## Nick potts

Unfortunately, I fear it is too late for Ukraine.

The situation is incredibly complex politically and militarily and as much as I would like to see other countries rally and protect a sovereign nation (look what happened last time we let a bully run amok in Europe), I fear the results would be catastrophic and Ukraine will be sacrificed to stop a wider war.

I have friends in the country at the minute, thankfully far enough away from the fighting and on the way into Poland shortly.

A scary scary situation all around and I hope there can be a solution that doesn't involve lots of civilian casualties (though judging by the video I saw of a Russian tank roll over a passenger car that doesn't look likely either  )


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## PARAGUAY

I have a feeling this could actually be the end for Putin. The Russian people are not behind this and the power of the internet will expose.


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## LondonDragon

PARAGUAY said:


> I have a feeling this could actually be the end for Putin.


I have a feeling it's the only way to end this pointless madness! This is a war created by one-man, not a nation! 
Gotta feel sorry for those poor souls that have to endure this in this day and age! 



Nick potts said:


> judging by the video I saw of a Russian tank roll over a passenger car that doesn't look likely either


Somehow that old man survived! there is a video of people pulling out of a car, but many others have died pointlessly!


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## dean

Unfortunately i think Ukraine will be sacrificed 
It’s terrible that one person can have so much power in 2022, 
It’s shows that Russia is no where close to being a democracy

Despite Europe supposedly being together as one it seems to me that the toughest sanctions were not forth coming as quickly as they should of done due to individual states being hesitant and maybe putting their self interests first ?

I hope the Ukrainian people don’t capitulate and the weapons they need to product themselves and their country find there way to them asap 


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## Nick potts

LondonDragon said:


> Somehow that old man survived! there is a video of people pulling out of a car, but many others have died pointlessly!



Yeah seen that vid, how he survived that is a miracle.


dean said:


> Despite Europe supposedly being together as one it seems to me that the toughest sanctions were not forth coming as quickly as they should of done due to individual states being hesitant and maybe putting their self interests first ?



I don't think any sanctions would have stopped him, he's been eyeing up Ukraine for a long time, as for self-interests first, absolutely but I think that is always the case and oftentimes needs to be, unfortunately, we can only be without our comforts, gas etc before we no longer care what happens or to who to make sure we get it.


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## John q

Hopeful thoughts, and  sadly Ukraine will capitulate and the west will do nothing.  Dreams are made  and destroyed. What's your dream made  of.... mines made of fish  and plants, the rest is throth and coffee.


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## Maf 2500

There is some suggestion that Ukraine is putting up somewhat more resistance than the walkover the Tsar expected. Requisitioning Russian medical personnel and trauma specialists to relocate at short notice for example. 

No doubt Russia has the heavy metal to obliterate this country but I think there is no appetite in the Russian population for either a massacre or a long drawn out bloody war, and the longer it goes on, and the more deaths on either side, the weaker will be Putin's position at home.

A horrible situation all round.


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## InNi2010

LondonDragon said:


> I have a feeling it's the only way to end this pointless madness! This is a war created by one-man, not a nation!
> Gotta feel sorry for those poor souls that have to endure this in this day and age!
> 
> 
> Somehow that old man survived! there is a video of people pulling out of a car, but many others have died pointlessly!


WOW.
I've seen it.
A large military vehicle barging to a bypassing car, as tanks parade from almost every direction
I'M ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED.
I have a feeling that the UK and other countries might get into this -
Would it be worth fighting for Ukraine
Or do we just stand by, aiding the Ukraine's Military?
Or do we do nothing - 
the world is to political and to controversial.
Is this some kind of revenge
or is it Putin's miscalculation of history - 
I don't know - 
I don't think anybody will know


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## Andy Taylor

NATO is past its use by date. Sitting on their hands while another country is being invaded isn't what I call helpful.
Sanctions on the other hand are pointless and don't work, the only way to stop this is to get rid of poo tin.

Rant over.


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## Nick potts

InNi2010 said:


> I'M ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED.
> I have a feeling that the UK and other countries might get into this



A scary situation no doubt, but I would not be worried too much about the UK or NATO getting involved. While Putin is clearly a despot he isn't crazy and knows what he can get away with,  he knew the world would say a lot of things and call him a bad person, but would ultimately watch as he takes Ukraine.


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## Courtneybst

The historical cycles mean that things like this will keep occurring even 'in this day and age'...look at what's happening in China for example! One issue is that too few are alive to remember the trauma of past events and so history repeats itself. It's all good reading about it but it's human nature to respond to experience. You can advise someone not to go down a certain path and they can take heed, but it often requires them them to get burnt to realise *why*.

Unfortunately I don't think there's a positive outcome whether the UK and other Western countries get involved or not. Standing by gives the green light to Putin that it's ok and plausible to do this (not that the West should be pointing fingers but that's another story). Getting involved also means consequences at home.

The worrying thing is that like many other leaders, Putin is a narcissistic sociopath and acts to feed his own agenda. People like this might even disguise their motives as being for the greater good but it is *not* the case.

I hope there is some resolution possible that I haven't considered, because war is futile.


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## Garuf

I’ve been saying for a long time that when the jingoism of World War Two, Poppy Day, brexit narrative started to become so toxic and pushed to the forefront in political discourse that a war isn’t going to be that far behind…

I hope I’m wrong. But I’ve a pretty good track record for getting it right when it comes to British politics. 

And what with Boris thinking he’s Churchill and having so much bad news to bury? I’m sure there someone in a living room of power doing the maths and saying “what’s losing a few squadies to bury all this party, letwin, investigations into lobbying and second jobs and keep our man in the job”


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## mort

The Ukrainian people are extremely brave and my heart goes out to them that essentially they are on their own. There have already been so many heroic stories coming out and they have shown amazing resilience.


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## LondonDragon

It's only a matter of time before he takes over the Ukraine, I don't think the Ukraine has enough resources to keep the Russians at bay for long without outside help, the question is what will happen then?
Those people don't want to be ruled by the Kremlin! The West doesn't want to get involved, that will surely kick off WW3, Putin is not stupid to invade an EU country! So it's all very political and the innocent suffer in the process!


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## Zhekus

Russian here (British, living in UK for over 20 years).

The whole thing is outrageous. To invade Ukraine for most Russians (and Ukrainians) was unthinkable. And yet here we are.
All of ex USSR is interconnected with family relations and friends. Ukraine especially. My father is from Ukraine and my Ukrainian grandma lives with my family in Russia. I've been to Ukraine many times as a kid. Nothing, but good memories. 
This war is  like a rape of your own family. Sadly a lot of Russians in Russia are brainwashed by the media, propaganda, etc. and will try to justify this invasion. I almost fell out with my younger brother speaking with him today...
I'm angry and sad.

Please remember a lot of Russians are against it and some will even protest, but opposition is suppressed, often with severe consequences.


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## hypnogogia

Zhekus said:


> Please remember a lot of Russians are against it and some will even protest, but opposition is suppressed, often with severe consequences.


Indeed.  Let’s remember that this is to all intents and purposes a dictatorship.


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## dean

Zhekus said:


> Russian here (British, living in UK for over 20 years).
> 
> Please remember a lot of Russians are against it and some will even protest, but opposition is suppressed, often with severe consequences.



There’s certainly no bad feelings towards the Russian people except Sergei Markov  he shows how brainwashed some are 

The best possible outcome would be for the people of Russia to rise up depose Putin and become a true democracy thus stoping the war in Ukraine 


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## dean

Its crazy to think that all that’s needed is approximately 7 grammes of lead to change Russia 


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## dean

The person who could deliver that 7 Grammes could name their own price and NATO would pay it 


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## DeepMetropolis

I really hope no other nations would join him on this pointless mission. My heart goes out to everybody that is affected by this. One love.


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## LondonDragon

DeepMetropolis said:


> I really hope no other nations would join him on this pointless mission. My heart goes out to everybody that is affected by this. One love.


So far Belarus aiding their assault as they're coming in and launching missile strikes from the north via Belarus, why no sanctions on Belarus?


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## Ghettofarmulous

With nukes pontes here and there, Ukraine are on their own as far as boots on the ground from US or UK is concerned


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## zozo

Anyway, it seems to be a rather bad omen... As far as I understand all this is because of Ukraine's connection with Europe and soliciting for NATO membership. And Putin sees NATO at his doorstep in a former Sovjet country as a major threat. Thus this doesn't end with Ukraine falling into his hands, after this he wants NATO out of Poland too and actually, he wants NATO to revert back to its pre-1997 borders... Bottom line he steering towards a reintroduction of the Warschaupact preferable with an iron curtain again.

Let's hope the Russians wake up and realise they are dealing with a mad man steering towards an escalation that will have no winners in the end.

Somehow I have the feeling NATO knew this situation was inevitable because I live a couple of miles away from a USA military base at the German border. And they are already mobilising and restocking this depot since 2016 with 1600 new tanks and other military vehicles. Since last year an entirely new railroad section is under construction towards this base as we speak.

This situation is already simmering for quite some time. And now it's here...


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## swyftfeet

The danger is it only takes a megalomaniac and his ardent supporters to do this.   
Thats why it was so important the orange buffoon was  ousted over here. 

Looks like Ukraine isnt the roll over they thought it would be.  Seem's very unpopular back in russia and seems that the troops sent are very young and inexperienced.  

Russia has taken steps to mitigate how poorly its going by locking down social media.

Hackers running some severe psyops could likely have a good effect.

Now that Germany and Italy are finally onboard with locking russia out of SWIFT I think the oligfarchs that keep putin in place are getting a bit itchy.    

The longer Ukraine can hold out, the more chance that putin is ended.  There is no good move from here.


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## mort

It looks from the outside that he's actually strengthened the allies massively. There was lots of division before and it was thought Biden to weak to keep nato together. The united front now being shown with sanctions and the willingness to supply aid and weapons to the heroic people of Ukraine will be hard to spin even for their media, especially when it's the people about to suffer.


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## hypnogogia

swyftfeet said:


> only takes a megalomaniac


And the Russian one has just uppped the anti with his nuclear escalation.  Good that the EU has pulled together now, closing airspace as well as SWIFT and arming Ukraine.


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## swyftfeet

mort said:


> It looks from the outside that he's actually strengthened the allies massively. There was lots of division before and it was thought Biden to weak to keep nato together. The united front now being shown with sanctions and the willingness to supply aid and weapons to the heroic people of Ukraine will be hard to spin even for their media, especially when it's the people about to suffer.


I think Biden's Admin has done a good job of showing Russia's hand ahead of the play, telegraphing every move and telling exactly what would happen and following through. 
Unfortunately the US is deeply divided at the moment,  I honestly think russian social media troll farms had a decent amount to do with that.       I also suspect there's a certain level of posterior clenching going on with how a certain party is going to lose a lot of black market campaign funding.


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## swyftfeet

ouch and the ruble is rubble,   I wonder how long until the lead express leaves the station.  There's a lot of unhappy billionaires in Russia looking at Pootie...


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## not called Bob

LondonDragon said:


> So far Belarus aiding their assault as they're coming in and launching missile strikes from the north via Belarus, why no sanctions on Belarus?


its taken over 6 years to get the sanctions we currently have post annexing. So would seem little political will power to do these things

He is certainly a very good strategist and is willing to play the long game and surround cities and wait this out, he’s learnt that waiting till almost spring is a much better idea and so on.

They have their own internet so can run cut off from the rest of the world. but fair play to all those resisising both within Russia and deployed to the conflict. those protesting in Russia are going to prison and those deployed, have to become POWs. there will be no easy outcome, the arsenal behind them is so vast and we have yet to hear China condem this, if they also side then the red army is massive


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## dean

If I was China I would stay out of it publicly but offer Russia a line of credit which they will need as there currency will be worthless to trade with, this would put Russia in debt to China thus giving them lots of leverage or at least a very nice profit 


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## dean

Gorilla street ware fare is proven good for the Ukrainian forces, but how long before Russia targets them with fighter plans or rockets which will kill the civilians on mass 


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## DeepMetropolis

LondonDragon said:


> So far Belarus aiding their assault as they're coming in and launching missile strikes from the north via Belarus, why no sanctions on Belarus?


I heard they are talking about it, so I don't think it wil last long.


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## mort

Some good news for a change, those brave Ukrainian soldiers who told the Russian warship to go f themselves, are still alive.


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## LondonDragon

mort said:


> Some good news for a change, those brave Ukrainian soldiers who told the Russian warship to go f themselves, are still alive.


Many have died though,  and Russia will just get annoyed how long this is taking now and just step up the attack and kill even more innocent people! There is a lot of propaganda from both sides too, so stories and figures coming out can be misleading!


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## dean

I can’t even imagine what a 20 + mile long snake of tanks etc would look like 
But I know for sure it wouldn’t be a good feeling 

Let’s hope that anyone who attacks civilians does actually end up in The Hague 
Is there a death penalty for such crimes ?


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## SRP3006

I believe they only hand out lengthy services or life in prison for war crimes. The death penalty should be used on many of the criminals the Hague has tried over the years imo.

Mind you one thing is accusing Putin of war crimes ( which is obvious he has commited), its quite another getting him to the Hague!


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## Nick potts

SRP3006 said:


> I believe they only hand out lengthy services or life in prison for war crimes. The death penalty should be used on many of the criminals the Hague has tried over the years imo.
> 
> Mind you one thing is accusing Putin of war crimes ( which is obvious he has commited), its quite another getting him to the Hague!



I'd agree, I don't think the ICC, ICJ or any other court is a worry for Putin.

I had hoped that Russia might have used the recent talks to back out of the war while saying that got the demands they wanted, but that isn't looking good and looks like the fighting is getting more aggressive. I just hope it doesn't get as bad I had expected it to be.


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## SRP3006

My better half is originally from South Eastern Poland. About 2.5hrs drive from the Ukrainian border. I've been over multiple times over the years as she has most of her family over there. Her city have set up make shift refugee camps and pop up sleeping areas in gyms etc. Naturally being so close to the border they are quite worried about how this all plays out.  Being 37 she can remember living under Russian curfew before the fall of communism in 1989.
Her family have noticed the huge increase in allied and nato forces arriving in recent days. Obviously all of this is nothing in comparison to what the Ukrainians are going through but its getting a little close to 'home' for a lot of Europeans.


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## Kelvin12

This going to be another Afghanistan for Russia.   Hopefully these sanctions will break the Russian economy.


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## LondonDragon

Nick potts said:


> I just hope it doesn't get as bad I had expected it to be.


There is only one way this will go and the title of this thread says it all!


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## dean

I don’t think it will get to that stage 
We may be outraged by what’s happening but to commit our sons to die for it is another thing 

If it went to all out war then there wouldn’t be enough time to get a single soldier there before we become just shadows on the floor 


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## PARAGUAY

One thing puzzles . The London Oligarchs are still here in Europe ? Them and their family's  should sent right back to Russia to counter the misinformation  (that estimates vary 70% of Russians believe )given out by state propaganda. The sight of the one Russian billionaire given air time on BBC  whinging about is assets frozen pathetic  and sick.  Don't freeze assets sieze them and use to help the Ukrainian people


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## LondonDragon

PARAGUAY said:


> Don't freeze assets sieze them and use to help the Ukrainian people


not as simple as that, that would be stealing!


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## Paulus

but with all the current countries involved, isn't it already a ww3?


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## Nick potts

Paulus said:


> but with all the current countries involved, isn't it already a ww3?



Thankfully not, while many countries are supplying lethal aid, none are currently at war except Ukraine and Russia, and let's hope it stays that way.


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## zozo

Paulus said:


> but with all the current countries involved, isn't it already a ww3?



Theoretically yes!... And as soon there is a Russian shot fired on European territory it's practically... That's when the s... hits the fan...

Maybe Poetin is up to it in his desperate act showing muscle... Not sure if his subordinates/supporters really are?. He has his advisors too that most likely advise against a suicide mission... Or else it already might have happened. Russia is so massively large they are not capable of ruling properly, any more expansion will be even more difficult to rule, so there is nothing to win only to lose. Suppose he overthrows Europe they are not capable of getting the economical collapse back on track and will go down the drain together with what they so-called conquered.


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## dean

Neither side has officially declared war 
Even if a stray missile missed Ukraine and went into Poland that wouldn’t be classed as declaring war by the Russians, it be condemned by NATO etc and classed as something like an infringement or an international incident 

Let’s get this straight no one in NATO wants to be the one to hit the nuclear button, there’s no way back from that 

If any of you believe full on WW3 is on the way then I expect to see all your scapes up for sale and you booking flights to remote countries in South America or the South Pacific in the hope you may survive as you’ve no chance if you live in Europe or North America


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## zozo

Let's be totally honest and realistic about what WW3 would be like in our current infrastructure and population density even if it would be a rather conventional war. 

Empty supermarkets, probably no electrical power and no gas to burn the stove and even worse no clean water from the tap... Since survival is no longer one of our natural instincts not even to speak of the lack of natural resources. Then what do we all do? Cook an egg on burning plastic window frames? 1 million people running after the 10.000 rabbits still left in the few patches of the forest we still have? It would be less than a few weeks before total chaos breaks out and people start killing each other over resources. A few weeks more millions will be starved without seeing an enemy soldier... That's like invading a country with pilled up corpses all over the place.

One doesn't need to be a professor to realise this is the only thing a WW3 will end in. And in the aftermath, it will cause millions of casualties for the instigator of this action. Even if Poetin was so stupid to order his subordinates to strike... I kinda refuse to believe they would be that stupid to follow up on it. I rather believe if he does, he will go into history as the 21st century Julius Ceasar.


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## Nick potts

zozo said:


> Let's be totally honest and realistic about what WW3 would be like in our current infrastructure and population density even if it would be a rather conventional war.
> 
> Empty supermarkets, probably no electrical power and no gas to burn the stove and even worse no clean water from the tap... Since survival is no longer one of our natural instincts not even to speak of the lack of natural resources. Then what do we all do? Cook an egg on burning plastic window frames? 1 million people running after the 10.000 rabbits still left in the few patches of the forest we still have? It would be less than a few weeks before total chaos breaks out and people start killing each other over resources. A few weeks more millions will be starved without seeing an enemy soldier... That's like invading a country with pilled up corpses all over the place.
> 
> One doesn't need to be a professor to realise this is the only thing a WW3 will end in. And in the aftermath, it will cause millions of casualties for the instigator of this action. Even if Poetin was so stupid to order his subordinates to strike... I kinda refuse to believe they would be that stupid to follow up on it. I rather believe if he does, he will go into history as the 21st century Julius Ceasar.



Pretty much this. While I don't believe we are heading to WW3, I don't think that if there was a war it would turn nuclear necessarily anyway.

We are a long way from what we were during WW2 when a lot of the world still knew how to survive without running water and supermarkets, now we barely make it through the day when Facebook goes down so a conventional war would be almost as catastrophic.


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## dean

Time for a little smile I think 




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## swyftfeet

My humble opinion:   

I doubt the nukes will fly.   I think I read it takes 3 people agreeing to that in Russia. 
My hope is someone ends this quickly with a double tap.

It will remain conventional, and be a war by proxy a la Afghanistan.

US upped the ante today and said they are "officially" providing stingers.  There's a lot of rumor that the Russian troops have been gaslighted to believe Ukraine wanted them there and are surprised that there is resistance.  A lot of self sabotage on the supply lines and poking holes in gas tanks.   Most 19 y.o. kids do not want to kill women and children, they want to be seen as heroes.


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## dean

Don’t mean to scare monger at all but I presume if Putin says use the nucs then two people with the keys have to turn them, and hopefully they won’t but who says there isn’t someone with them with a gun to make sure they do as told ? 
I mean if I was a crazed dictator I wouldn’t trust anyone to do what I said out of sheer loyalty but more out of fear, and there’s always someone willing to move up the ranks 


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## mort

There are powerful images coming out at the moment, Russian 7 year olds locked up for laying flowers in tribute to Ukrainians,  a Russian soldier crying on a phone call to his mum when he was taken prisoner, people are resisting on both sides of the border. 
He still has most of the population brainwashed but it seems some young conscripts are realising the truth. The convoy isn't moving as yet, maybe lack of full/organisation or possibly he is leaving it there in the hope that the Ukrainians attack giving him justification to flatten Kyiv.


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## Al404

@Zhekus  I'm looking for information of it is going on inside Russia since on our newspaper I can't really find any information.
Is any Twitter or some other way to know what is going on over there? If people are aware of what it is happening?


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## Kelvin12

Same here in AU very little coverage of whats going on.


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## LondonDragon

Sometimes it is hard to tell what is the truth and what is propaganda from both sides of the conflict! 
All we know is that the Ukrainian people did not need to be liberated, the Ukrainian people do not want to be ruled by the Kremlin, and there is no place for Russia in Ukraine. They should be dissociated with the word Europe and be left on their own without lifting any of these sanctions! Let them rot until Russia as a nation comes to their senses and overthrow this a-hole!!!


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## not called Bob

PARAGUAY said:


> One thing puzzles . The London Oligarchs are still here in Europe ? Them and their family's  should sent right back to Russia to counter the misinformation  (that estimates vary 70% of Russians believe )given out by state propaganda. The sight of the one Russian billionaire given air time on BBC  whinging about is assets frozen pathetic  and sick.  Don't freeze assets sieze them and use to help the Ukrainian people


seems an awful lot have donated blue and some very recently, maybe that’s why they have 30 days to come up with a new way to clean money and donate 

there are plenty of Russians also in dire need, with the closing of access to banking plenty of people have empty cupboards etc, I have friends and colleagues from both countries and there has been no love for Mr P in 9 out of 10 people, only one that seemed happy came from Crimea as a someone born into the USSR, but I don’t think even he will now be such a supporter, as his life grinds to a halt.


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## Kelvin12

He needs the army to say enough is enough and your time is finished.   The Russian people really need to make their feelings known which is apparantly what they are trying to do.    Not the first time an idiot regime has been overthrown.  The world needs to be ready to assist if it goes that way.   We do sit bye way to long before the world powers step up to the mark.


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## PARAGUAY

dean said:


> Don’t mean to scare monger at all but I presume if Putin says use the nucs then two people with the keys have to turn them, and hopefully they won’t but who says there isn’t someone with them with a gun to make sure they do as told ?
> I mean if I was a crazed dictator I wouldn’t trust anyone to do what I said out of sheer loyalty but more out of fear, and there’s always someone willing to move up the ranks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


In Alistair Cooke's documentary about the USA  pressing the nuclear button it's a complex and although can be swift operation the final move l think as l remember the way it's done the actual "button presser" as no idea. However looking at Putin's henchmen it is a worry


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## PARAGUAY

@ not called Bob . Putin doesn't care about his own people. His own people have suffered for years and all they want is a better life. Surely Apple Google Bing all these tech giants can counter state misinformation and it's noted Putin's worried about this closing down the only free liberal newspapers and tv stations. It looks like China is getting worried about what's going on in Ukraine and fear huge damage to their own economy


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## Tim Harrison

Putin will roll in to Ukraine and the west will do nothing to stop him.  And it’ll stay that way unless he continues on to Poland. That for sure will be the beginning of WW3.


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## Zhekus

Al404 said:


> @Zhekus  I'm looking for information of it is going on inside Russia since on our newspaper I can't really find any information.
> Is any Twitter or some other way to know what is going on over there? If people are aware of what it is happening?


I don't really follow what is happening in Russia. See some news on reddit, that's about it.
The thing is a lot of Russian sources will be pro Putin. Media is not allowed to even say that there is war with Ukraine and they just shut down last independent radio station in Moscow.
I work with a Russian guy. He is from Krasnoyarsk (Siberia) and he just told me that local radio station got shot at because they tried telling what's going on in Ukraine. The station is closed for now, saying they are not allowed to tell the truth and unwilling to tell lies.
The older the Russian the more anti West/Ukraine he/she is likely to be, sadly. Even a lot of young Russians and some of my acquaintances are absolutely "hook line and sinker" for Russian propaganda.

I  don't even talk about it with my parents. Talking to my brother economy is nose diving, but its not the first ride for Russians and they will get on with it... Seen some rumours that some Russians trying to get out via Finland fearing martial law.

And another thing, call me paranoid if you will, but I remember Chernobyl and I kid you not I ordered potassium iodide last night, so if the poo hits the fan my son can have some (potassium iodide that is).

I pray that Russia will be humbled in Ukraine and got turn around and kicked out. I hope Putin will be deposed, by any means asap.
It's a strange place to be in, when your home country is an aggressor.  I struggle to get my mind around it.

Hug your loved ones more.


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## Zhekus

Just to add. Even with propaganda, there are anti war protests in Russia.


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## Tim Harrison

Zhekus said:


> I pray that Russia will be humbled in Ukraine and got turn around and kicked out. I hope Putin will be deposed, by any means asap.


My cynical side thinks The West deliberately pushed Putin’s buttons and pulled the necessary political levers so he’d have no choice but to invade Ukraine.

With the hope he’ll overreach and be deposed, ridding the world of a major nuclear threat.

Either way I should imagine much statecraft and skullduggery continues behind the scenes with this as a possible aim.


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## Paulus




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## swyftfeet

Tim Harrison said:


> My cynical side thinks The West deliberately pushed Putin’s buttons and pulled the necessary political levers so he’d have no choice but to invade Ukraine.
> 
> With the hope he’ll overreach and be deposed, ridding the world of a major nuclear threat.
> 
> Either way I should imagine much statecraft and skullduggery continues behind the scenes with this as a possible aim.



Ukraine nor NATO were not a direct threat to Putin.   He decided to attempt to annex a sovereign country.  He put his country and the oligarchs in dire financial straits doing so.    I think Ukraine  was making more progress into joining NATO.  Putin has been a thorn in western democracies with all the cyber warfare and psyops.  IMHO the west wasnt  exactly upset to have a proxy war, but it was idiotic for him to fall for it, I can hardly think Ukraine " instigated" by wanting to be free of his influence.


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## Maf 2500

Yes, Chechnya and Georgia have similarly received Russian intervention in the not too distant past and NATO was not on the agenda in either country. Many in Eastern Europe are not happy with (mainly) Americans "westsplaining" the invasion of Ukraine as a result of NATO expansion into the east, a view which does not take into account the wishes of Eastern European people who prefer to live in free democracies. Putin wanted Ukraine as a puppet state and that is the reason for the invasion, nothing to do with NATO.


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## PARAGUAY

For years we the world has been soft on Putin. After Salisbury sanctions of the level we see now should have been applied. Russian involvement in London sorted out.  He never left the KGB . He has invaded a sovereign country . To justify this by saying he was provoked is ridiculous. For years he's been a threat and some countries actually increased trade with Russia actually funding his ambitions.


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## Kelvin12

Absolutely  we cow tail to these fanatics in both Russia and China and they thrive on it knowing the west will do nothing and just keep negotiating and wasting time talking.   We are loosing the battle here the dictators are making ground.  Shinning example Chinese covid.  Shinning example Ukraine. Russia wants to stop the spread of Nato on its borders and the world is  doing nothing.


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## dean

It’s great to see retailers pulling out of Russia 
But I can’t help thinking it’s not in support of Ukraine but the effects of the current sanctions and that the ruble has dropped therefore any profit that was being made has now disappeared 

I would say that these closures should show the Russian people what is actually going on but I’m sure it’s just being spun by Putins mob as something completely different 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mort

I don't think it's the sanctions in Russia drawing companies out. You can see by the fact some have stayed as long as they could before acting as a sign that it's just trying to protect their investment in the civilised world. There were plenty of calls for boycotts on McDonald's and coca cola yesterday. 

I don't get how Russia can spin the exodus of so many worldwide brands either but then we aren't thinking about it like psychotic despots, or a brainwashed populous. I feel sorry for the more enlightened Russian population.


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## Maf 2500

Ukraine reveals ‘Russian warship, go f**k yourself!’ postage stamp
Edit, can't link the Guardian article I intended due to profanity in url, but Reddit instead:


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## John q

^^^ lol I so hope this crisis can be solved with postage stamps.


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## Kelvin12

Developing by the day.   Now Belarus and Syria are supposedly sending thousands of fighters to assist Russia.


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## LondonDragon

This crisis will be done when half of Ukraine is turned into rubble and thousands dead, and no one will be accountable for it!
This is a no win war for Russia, a war just because there are some oil/gas reserves in the southeast and the Black Sea and Russia sees this a threat to their coffers if Ukraine enters the market to Europe! Also having NATO closer to it's border if Ukraine joins the alliance.
Either way Russia will now be forever sanctioned, and the rest of Europe will buy oil/gas from elsewhere or invest further in renewable energy, this will actually speed up the need for renewable energy and slow down climate change!
The major losers here will be the Ukrainian people unfortunately, that will now be dispersed around Europe for the foreseeable future and counterless others buried in mass graves!, and their cities turned to dust!
I don't think we have seen the worst yet, and Putin will bring out the big guns soon as he gets frustrated, next will be biological weapons and smaller nuclear weapons which will "win" their war for them!! They are making all the excuses to justify what they are doing and living in some parallel universe that only themselves seem to be in it!
Since the West/NATO cannot intervene and start WW3 and possible nuclear war where Europe might cease to exist as it is today! Also Putin cannot be trialled for war crimes due to the way ICC and UN Security Council are formed up! Only soldiers/generals might be accountable, which is pointless.
The only way this will stop is for the Russian people to revolt and take him down! Otherwise, this will go one for quite some time and the Ukrainians will be no more..... while the rest of us watch!


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## Witcher

Within few weeks or so we'll become quite insensitive to what's going on in Ukraine.  Like we did with Palestine or Afghanistan for example.

We'll talk abut a guy slapping someone in the face on the TV.  We'll talk about another famous chick showing her +xxxxl on the beach, we'll talk about new prices of Big Mac. Or about new sale of our favorite Adidas shoes.
This is how it works, media will fill our brains with another kind of information if and when needed. Information completely unnecessary but it's role is not being necessary but making our brains busy.
We'll forget about Palestine. Sudan. Somalia. Or Ukraine.

We'll simply consume another part of information fed by media. The show must go on.


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## LondonDragon

Witcher said:


> Within few weeks or so we'll become quite insensitive to what's going on in Ukraine. Like we did with Palestine or Afghanistan for example.


It's just human nature, there are better things to worry about than a war on the other side of the world! 
Only those affected directly won't forget it any time soon! 
Still cannot see anything that Russia is going to gain out of this war, other than more sanctions from EU and USA! But then again the World is big, and they will just make deals with Asian/African countries and go about it as usual, since the West needs the gas/oil to a certain extent they will just keep pumping the euros into Russia and will keep aiding refugees and fund Ukraine with new weapons to test on the Russians! 
It's always hard to judge a war like this, where lots of propaganda fly around from both sides, one thing is for sure Ukraine is getting destroyed and a lot of innocent people (inc soldiers) are dying in this pointless war!


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## PARAGUAY

The idea was that the resolve in the free world wouldn't hold was probably Putins thinking when he invaded and every well nearly every democratic country stood side by side but is it me  butare cracks appearing. India has huge military contracts with Russia and seems lukewarm with the situation. Biden says what everybody thinks and wants and suddenly Macron chips in with sort of" what you playing at Biden l am on the phone to Mr Putin every day" Weak links here what's goin on with Macron and India ? Normal service will be resumed with a cease fire!


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## LondonDragon

At the end of the day they all have deals in the background that most of us are not aware and every country profits from this war, the one's that are not involved in the war and still pay the price is the rest of us that have to pay the high prices of goods with the excuse of the war and all these big corporations will just make huge profits at the end of the year, why are big supply companies making billions in profits while people in the UK for example are going to food banks because they can't afford to heat their home in the winter otherwise?


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## Witcher

LondonDragon said:


> they will just keep pumping the euros into Russia and will keep aiding refugees and fund Ukraine with new weapons to test on the Russians


@LondonDragon have you ever thought of becoming a prophet?


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