# CO2 levels problem



## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Hi everyone, 
I'm new on this forum and new in planted tank hobby.

I have planted 29 gallon tank.
80x40x40cm
Light is led chihiros A801, 50w 7200 Lumen, it has a dimmer with 7 steps, right now is on 5th because I'm a little bit struggling with some algae. 
Filter is canister 750 lph. I have a nice flow throw the tank, and light surface agitation.

My problem is next:
I just cannot hit good level of CO2 when lights are on. 

Until now I was using ceramic diffuser  under the filter intake. Bubble rate was 6.5 bbs. It was turning on 4 hours before the lights are on, and turning of two hours before lights of. I didn't have any bubbles in the aquarium, so it should be 100% dissolved.
But my drop checker was dark green every day when lights are on, and it becomes lime green maybe half an hour before lights are off. 

Now i tried with inline reactor. First i bought an INSTA MAX reactor M. When I connected it inline with filter it was reducing my flow by double! And propellers were so loud on it. So I removed the propellers, on the bottom of reactor added a power head which is 750 lph, and connected everything inline with canister. Now flow is even better then without reactor. 
And bubbles are nicely circling on top of it, it's really strong vortex in there, and only a smallest manage to go all the way down where power head grinds them even more and sending them trough the lily pipe at the end. 
In aquarium I can see some(not a lot) really small micro bubbles which are all over the place (so flow should be good). 

Now bubble rate is 8 bps and still after three hours my drop checker is dark green, almost blue. And when I check PH it is around 7.

I don't have a  PH tester so I'm using drop checker liquid, and putting three drops in a syringe, making sure that there is no air in it and than take some water from aquarium with it and like that I'm getting instant results. 

Can u please help me with this. Is it possible that I need even bigger bubble rate? I was reading that most off people are using 2 to 3 bbs on this size of tanks. 

Is it possible maybe that I have some lame CO2 in the CO2 bottle?
My surface agitation is not hat strong at all, it is a little bit wavy and that's it.


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## jaypeecee (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> Bubble rate was 6.5 bbs.



Hi @Nikola 

Firstly, welcome to UKAPS!

Please explain how you measured the bubble rate. This equates to 390 bubbles per minute. I wouldn't be able to count that fast.

JPC


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Hi @jaypeecee , Thank You 
Yes that's hard to measure 
I'm recording slow motion video off 3sec duration. Than it is really easy to count them.
I'm recording few videos for any case and compare them.


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## jaypeecee (9 May 2020)

Hi @Nikola 

I  never thought of using slow-motion video but, OK, that makes sense. I guess it would also be possible to use a stroboscope. Anyway, moving on...

It shouldn't be necessary to inject so much CO2 into a 29 gallon tank. I have a tank the same size as yourself and I run that at almost exactly one-tenth of your bubble rate.



Nikola said:


> Until now I was using ceramic diffuser under the filter intake.



I suspect that positioning the ceramic diffuser under the filter intake may have been not such a good idea.



Nikola said:


> Is it possible maybe that I have some lame CO2 in the CO2 bottle?



Which CO2 bottle are you using?

JPC


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## Fiske (9 May 2020)

Captain Obvious here: checked for leaks?


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Hi @Fiske 
Yes I checked few times, everything alright there. 
@jaypeecee I was reading posts fro a lot off people who were using method under filter intake so i decided to try it, butt now not using it any way. 


jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Nikola
> It shouldn't be necessary to inject so much CO2 into a 29 gallon tank. I have a tank the same size as yourself and I run that at almost exactly one-tenth of your bubble rate.
> JPC


 Exactly that, because off that I'm so confused about my bubble rate, now it is 10bbs for an two hours and it is getting better but still not lime color.
Fishes are okay, very active, so i don't know. I'm next to the tank today whole day, will check fishes all the time and follow CO2. 
Hope that somehow I will solve it with your help. 

I bought no name bottle, 2l from aquarium plants store. I have one more 5l, which I bought few days ago to have for replacement while this one will be on refill. And I bought it on another place, so maybe I should try that one now and see is it about lame CO2 in this one.
 Butt I don't think that someone would put something wrong in co2 bottle, I mean it's cheap to fill it with CO2.


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## Angelfishguy99 (9 May 2020)

I have a similar sized aquarium (Roma 125). My bubble rate moves so fast but I'd guess it's also about 8bps. Co2 on 2 hours before lights and it is lime green when lights turn on. I have an online diffuser on a 2000lph external filter. Like Fiske said, are you sure there is not a leak somewhere on your setup? Only yesterday I found a leak (faulty check valve)


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Hey @Angelfishguy99
Okay, now when u said about your's, I fell better, so it can be that this bubble rate is not too much. 

I was checking with soap water all around bubble counter, on check valve, on reactor. Even I was checking manometers and their connection, main connection, everything seems right. 
How did u check leaking, which method did u use?


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## Angelfishguy99 (9 May 2020)

I used soapy water to try to d leaks on the regulator but didn't find any, then I put the check valve into a bowl of water and saw lots of little bubbles escaping.

Here is a video of my bubbles from a video yesterday when I was trying to work out why my working pressure was fluctuating (which was the leak)


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## Angelfishguy99 (9 May 2020)

I will get a more consistent video of the bps once co2 turns on for today


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Your bubble rate is something like mine, maybe your's just a bit slower.

Hmm, okay, I will go and check that too now


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Checked it, everything is okay with leaking.
Now with 10 bps I'm getting towards lime green color slowly. Checked with syringe again. . Butt still, it should be there in 2 hours or less, mine is three hours already on 10 bps.


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Sorry for interrupting your discussion guys.. 

But @Angelfishguy99 is right... It's a leak.

However, in case the diffuser is not good working... Or not placed on right place 
Or the drop CHECKER is set on low water highet lv.

It could be everything.

But you have to know that 6 bps... Is already too much.

On my 52 gallons tank i used 3 types of diffusion methods:

Ista ceramic diffuser.  - 3 bps
Atomizer inside the tank. - 2 bps
Inline atomozer. - 1 bps

In order to get lime green on the drop checker.

pH at morning 7.5
pH at evening 7.2-3
Kh 7.5 dkh


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

@Shuster  I was just checking everything again for leaks butt didn't find it. I don't know how else to check it, only to put everything together under water, but that is impossible for me to do. And I can see how bubbles are coming in to the reactor.




Shuster said:


> Sorry for interrupting your discussion guys..
> 
> In order to get lime green on the drop checker.
> 
> ...



This looks like not enough off  pH drop.
It should be right in the morning drop off 1 pH that u would have around 30 ppm off CO2, like that it seams to me that u don't have even a half of that 30ppm.


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> @Shuster  I was just checking everything again for leaks butt didn't find it. I don't know how else to check it, only to put everything together under water, but that is impossible for me to do. And I can see how bubbles are coming in to the reactor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for the info that isn't suits your exception...

This info is about a 2 month old.
I'll check again on Saturday.

Regarding the drop checker, I am using 4dkh solution.

I'll attach a video for  illustration...




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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Shuster said:


> Sorry for the info that isn't suits your exception...
> 
> This info is about a 2 month old.
> I'll check again on Saturday.
> ...




Your aquarium looks wonderful Shuster. 
And plants looks very healthy. 

I’m sorry if I said something wrong, I was reading a lot on this forum, and lot off people suggest to have ph drop off at least 1 for good concentration off co2. Off course it can be less than that and everything to be good, like in your case. 
Butt I want to make it to a full 30ppm to get rid off some algae in my aquarium, and help plants to establish nicely in there. 


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> Your aquarium looks wonderful Shuster.
> And plants looks very healthy.
> 
> I’m sorry if I said something wrong, I was reading a lot on this forum, and lot off people suggest to have ph drop off at least 1 for good concentration off co2. Off course it can be less than that and everything to be good, like in your case.
> ...


It's ok mate  

I think if you'll provide some pics and and the is your water surface is in motion
It will bring a bit of cleared info regarding your tank.

Moreover, in case you have good diffusion with a reactor... You shouldn't inject more the 2 bps (IMO).

Please provide pics of the reactor or a video that how the co2 gets in the reactor (just to assist with your issue).

In my case those the diffusers that I used.

FYI 

My co2 balloon is "soda stream 885g"
Lasts for 5 months. +/-. (At first connection I had some pressure release... Hahah not me the co2 bottle 

Attached pics:
Co2 bottle
Ceramic in tank atomizer
Inline atomizer
And the last state of my aquarium (just after water change "tap water").













I'd like to add... 

In case you have some kind of alge, you need firstly check water parameters in order fix the root  cause of them 

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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Okay.

So this is my bubble counter video slow motion 3sec. It is 29 bubbles so it mean almost 10bps.


Surface agitation and bubbles in the tank:

U cannot see good bubbles but there is a lot off them inside now.

And reactor 


About water parameters:

Amonia unreadable 
Nitrite unreadable 
Nitrate arround 25ppm (adding NPK)
dH arround 8
kH arround 10

I dont have a lot off algae, just around new plants which came from tissue culture, and they are adapting now.
It is Alternathera reinicki mini, montecarlo, and rotala nanjenshan.

Before light was all the way up, so I had outbreak of hair algae, but now they are gone, maybe few off them still in hairgrass but it will go away.


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Shuster said:


> It's ok mate
> 
> 
> Please provide pics of the reactor or a video that how the co2 gets in the reactor (just to assist with your issue).


@Shuster  I have uploaded something, hope it will help


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Thanks.

I saw the bobble in the tank. (Lots of them...)

2 questions... 

Temperature of the water ?

Where is the drop checker? 

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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Temperature is around 26 Celsius
Drop checker is on the right side, lily pipe on the left. It is 5cm under surface.
Butt now I'm thinking to move it, because I putted it like that before i Installed reactor, and then I didn't have bubbles in the water.


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## hypnogogia (9 May 2020)

@Nikola, have Giu checked that your reactor is connected correctly? With that sort of reactor, co2 is usually I je D.C. at the bottom, and after flow is top to bottom, this maximising contact time between co2 and your water.  In your setup, you seem to have lots of bubbles swirling around the top of the reactor.


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## hypnogogia (9 May 2020)

@Shuster your tank looks good, really healthy looking plants. How do you create that effect of the falling sand?


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

@hypnogogia this reactor has intake off water on top, and makes strong vortex there and moving down. So it goes trough bubbles all the time and pushes them down. This  INSTA MAX m Reactor is working like that


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## hypnogogia (9 May 2020)

@Nikola , ok.  Just thought it was worth asking/checking.


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

@hypnogogia  every segment here for me is worth off checking  so thanks for trying to find the reason


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> Temperature is around 26 Celsius
> Drop checker is on the right side, lily pipe on the left. It is 5cm under surface.
> Butt now I'm thinking to move it, because I putted it like that before i Installed reactor, and then I didn't have bubbles in the water.


There is almost no surface agitation. (Not related to your issue)

How old is you 4dkh liquid in the DC?

In your case, I can suggest 2 things.

1 troubleshooting you diffusion as follows 
Get cheap diffuser plastic from ista or atomizer from eBay or Ali... As which I uploaded the green one 
Around 3$

And replace diffusion method for test purpose.


2. Buy co2 test (costs around 20$... )

Kind of "take it or leave it"

Both end i wish you the best luck on that matter 

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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> @Shuster your tank looks good, really healthy looking plants. How do you create that effect of the falling sand?


Thank you  

Sandfall... 

There are lots of vids on you tube.

Two types 

Air flow or water flow
My is water flow)

Like the following on :


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

I have tried already with ceramic one, the same thing. 
I didn't say, I have a surface skimmer. So it contribute a little bit to the lose. 
But my head will blow up today, whole day checking setting...now I changed CO2 bottle to check even that.

I had DIY yeast and sugar CO2 before this. 
And with ceramic difusser under filter intake with 2bps I had lime green checker always . But it was running all day night(at night air stone was on).


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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

It is like 12 days old.


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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> It is like 12 days old.


Let me get home today... I'll record a short video... 

I have the following running:

Surface skimmer 
Water agitation 2 filters... Making that.
Water temp 26° 
Air stone running 24/7 (don't ask why haha)


Regarding your issue... 

Have you used the same Reactor with the yeast mixture?


FYI 
My diffuser provides much smaller bubbles... (Microbubbles)

Could be related as well.

As far as I know, the best diffusion is the one that 100% dissolving the bubbles 





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## Shuster (9 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> It is like 12 days old.


Ok.. then it's not the issue I think.

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## Nikola (9 May 2020)

Shuster said:


> Have you used the same Reactor with the yeast mixture?



I dindn’t, it was on ceramic difusser under the intake of a canister filter. 
And then I was using the same setup just with pressurized co2, but not running at night and didn’t get lime green in the morning. 


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

Hi again, 
I just got my kh test, and it is 12. 
Is that good? 
Maybe because off that my ph doesn’t fall down under 7. 
On chart on 7 ph and 12kh is around 30ppm 
So my co2 is good? 


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

[mention]Shuster [/mention] I bought plastic intank atomizer, I will try with that these days 


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

Can kh be hi because off EI dosing? 


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

One more thing, I have measured go again, because I didn’t do it since I’m adding magnesium with EI.
My gh is 14! 

Tap water gh is 9 


What to do? To stop using magnesium? 


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## Djoko Sauza (12 May 2020)

If your tap water has enough calcium and magnesium then no need to dose that. 

Co2 will dissolve better in colder water so that may help.

Are your plants healthy and pearling? It may be that your co2 levels are fine and your drop checker is faulty.


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

Hi [mention]Diogo Sousa [/mention] yes, my plants are pearling, butt now little bit less than before, because I dimmed a light a little bit. 

Well my plants are not so good, I was struggling with some hair algae which disappeared when I turned down the light. 
Last week I have planted some montecarlo which was growing emmersed, and it’s old leaves are rooting away and I started getting diatoms around it and on some more plants. 
And again I have a little bit of hair algae.

At the same time I have started dosing EI. 

I have bought today stronger filter, its 50% stronger than old one so I turned up my flow a little. 

Hope that flow will make situation better for the aquarium plants. 

Today I’ve also got an intank atomizer, and jbl dropchecker with their solution I’m testing it now. 

It seems that I’m getting better results with it, co2 is rising faster. 


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## Ray (12 May 2020)

Obvious but worth checking: this is with a newly cleaned and set up drop checker with 4DKH fluid and the correct GH test fluid? I’ve had surface film form in my drop checker before now, which slows down the change.


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## Nikola (12 May 2020)

Yes that’s right. 
I’m still having an old dropchecker inside, and that one change the color fast now.
It looks that that reactor wasn’t good solution.
I took [mention]Shuster [/mention] advice and bought intank atomizer, it looks it does job good. 

Now with 6 bps I have lime green after two hours off co2.

Hope that I’m a week or so I will see progress with plants 


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## Nikola (13 May 2020)

What do u think, what is the most accurate method for checking co2 levels? 

I think that kh ph chart is not correct if we are dosing ferts, because phosphate is raising kh. 

For me the most accurate is drop checker with 4dkh solution. Ok it is not responding in real time but still I think that it gives the most reliable results. 

And fishes can be used for checking hi levels 


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## Sammy Islam (13 May 2020)

I use my drop checker and a PH pen. I'm not a fan of the "1 point drop" anymore, mainly because i can't achieve it in my tank without stressing the fish, even with good surface agitation. 

My co2 comes on 3hours before my lights so I use my drop checker and dial in the co2 so that at lights on it is very lime green and then verging yellow an hour into photoperiod. I use my ph pen to gage how stable my co2 is, my PH drops by 0.8 and is stable from the beginning to the end of the photoperiod. 

I would use these two method rather than rely on one. stable co2 is more important than how lime green/yellow the drop checker is.


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## Nikola (13 May 2020)

Totally agree. 
I have bought my ph pen yesterday, so during weekend I will follow it and adjust it more.

I would like to say sorry to [mention]Shuster [/mention] 
for me commenting his 0,5 ph drop. 
I was blinded with that “1 ph drop” because lot off people recommended it on forums.
But now it’s clear for me that if u are adding ferts and your kh is hi, 1 ph drop can add a lot more co2 than 30ppm. And u can stress your fishes like u just said.


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## Sammy Islam (13 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> Totally agree.
> I have bought my ph pen yesterday, so during weekend I will follow it and adjust it more.
> 
> I would like to say sorry to [mention]Shuster [/mention]
> ...



Yup pretty much, find what works best for you. You may need more co2 to compensate for flow or more light. 

I like the "1 point drop" idea, i used it in my old tank and was great. But i do believe it gives you more co2 than needed and the drop checker is yellow. I feel like sometimes when you push the co2 too much you are more likely to run into co2 related alage, probably because it's harder to keep very high levels of co2 more consistant than a little lower amount. So for me, i found it hard to have a consistent 1ph drop without stressing my fish and running into co2 related algae, so i dropped it down to a consistent and stable 0.8ph drop and things are better.


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## Nikola (13 May 2020)

[mention]Sammy Islam [/mention] thank u for advice and for that u shared your own experience with co2 in your aquarium. 
It helped me with my dilemmas. 


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## jaypeecee (13 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> And fishes can be used for checking hi levels



Hi @Nikola 

Do you really think that's fair on your fish?

JPC


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## Nikola (13 May 2020)

Hi [mention]jaypeecee [/mention] ,
Probably I didn’t write it properly, was in hurry.
I have never putted my fishes in danger.

When ever I doo some adjustments with co2 I’m next to them carefully watching their behavior to make sure that they are okay. 

By using fishes for checking co2 I meant more if u see your fishes behave little bit lethargic, lazy, slower responding to feeding, u may be putting more co2 than u should. Different fishes can tolerate different levels off co2. And also depends how much oxygen does water contain. 

All I wanted to say is that fishes are making our limit in injection rate off co2, and they should be as happy as the plants. 


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## jaypeecee (13 May 2020)

Nikola said:


> All I wanted to say is that fishes are making our limit in injection rate off co2, and they should be as happy as the plants.



Hi @Nikola 

That sounds a _lot_ better. I was just concerned that a newcomer to our hobby may read what you first said and take it literally.

JPC


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## Nikola (20 May 2020)

Hey people, I bought JBL atomizer which have bubble counter and now I see that my bubble counter has smaller bubbles that JBL. 
I was thinking there is some standard with bubble size there. 
Now my 8 bps on old bubble counter is actually 5bps on JBL.
So maybe I’m not putting a lot off CO2 anyway. 


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