# Thinking of setting up a CRS tank.....



## Ady34 (30 Apr 2012)

Hi, 
ive just purchased a nano tank (55l), and am considering setting it up for CRS. My tap water is PH7, negligable KH and low GH also. Is there anything i need to ensure i provide for the shrimp to ensure good moulting etc. I understand they do best in low KH  water, but what GH suits them best? Can the minerals they need be provided for in food or water conditioners and are there any which are favoured by CRS keepers?
Thanks for any pointers,
Ady.


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## LondonDragon (30 Apr 2012)

Read this post: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19724


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## Ady34 (30 Apr 2012)

Hi Paulo,
thanks, i have read that post several times but really want to find out how critical these perameters are for keeping these shrimp.... is it different and more critical for example if you want to breed/raise shrimplets than simply keeping them? I dont want to go RO water, but thought as my tap water was so soft these may be suitable inhabitants for my set up without conditioning the tap water. My only concern is GH and that mine isnt quite high enough. Test kits are shunned a bit as inaccurate so i got a water report from my supplier which stated my tap water to be soft having 18mg/l as calcium and 45mg/l as calcium carbonate. Before going down the CRS route i thought id see if this is a possibility. In my planted tank i add sera mineral salts (Ca, Mg and K) but this in turn increases TDS, which i understand should be kept low also. Can food sources provide the necessary minerals needed for correct moulting and breeding? and if so which ones are best?
Also in that post it suggests zero nitrate, but ill probably be dosing nitrates for the plants so would like to know if anyone is having success with these shrimp in planted tanks. 
The trouble is you read different information from different sources for example temperature, some say cooler some say warmer, Dincho's post says keep it constant yet others say shrimp like night time drops......?? Just trying to get feedback from various people who keep them successfully before i jump in.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## LondonDragon (30 Apr 2012)

Not an expert on water parameters so I will let the members that know more about this to answer those questions, I have kept them in the past and didn't have much success so I tend to stick now to what does well on my local tap water and avoid species that I have had problems with in the past or that I know will need special needs (I am lazy).


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## Ady34 (30 Apr 2012)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> I tend to stick now to what does well on my local tap water and avoid species that I have had problems with in the past or that I know will need special needs (I am lazy).


Ditto, im new to shrimp keeping, i have amanos and a few bee shrimp (not breeding) in my planted tank so was really looking for something suitable for my tap water as i dont want to get too involved in water conditioning in this tank (i am lazy too). If anyone has any other suggestions that maybe more suited then im all ears!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## AAB (30 Apr 2012)

I am in the same boat, I am fairly new to the hobby and just getting into shrimps. In last month or so I have put 19 crs in my heavily planted 60l tank.  I have no idea what my kh gh is, but I think my ph is around 6.  Other tank mates are roughly 50 (or at least that how many I put in) cherry shrimps and 5 males guppys that I am planning to get rid off.  At most I have only ever spotted around 6-7 crs at the same time. So no idea if the others are still alive and hiding or dead (haven't found any bodies).  I will be reading this thread with interest to see what other experienced members have to add on this matter.


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## dw1305 (1 May 2012)

Hi all,
I can't help with the CRS, but I can do the water bit. 


> My only concern is GH and that mine isnt quite high enough. Test kits are shunned a bit as inaccurate so i got a water report from my supplier which stated my tap water to be soft having 18mg/l as calcium and 45mg/l as calcium carbonate. Before going down the CRS route i thought id see if this is a possibility. In my planted tank i add sera mineral salts (Ca, Mg and K) but this in turn increases TDS, which i understand should be kept low also.


The water sounds fine 1dKH is equivalent to 17.85 milligrams of calcium carbonate per litre of water, so you have *about 2.5dKH*. 1 dGH is defined as 10 milligrams (mg) of calcium oxide (CaO) per litre of water, CaO has the RMM of Ca(40) + O(16) = 56. and  40/56 = 0.714. Therefore 7.14mg of Ca per litre of water is equivalent to 1dGH, *so again you have approx 2.5 dGH*. 



> Can food sources provide the necessary minerals needed for correct moulting and breeding? and if so which ones are best?


After Dincho's CRS food guide (in Paulo's link) have a look at: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8970>, I'm still a little bit dubious about the need for special shrimp foods. 

I'd just make sure they get some calcium rich vegetables, something like a blanched Brassica-  Pak choi, Broccoli, Savoy Cabbage or cooked Sweet Potato, Carrot or Butternut Squash. I'd then feed a good quality Spirulina based flake and a small amount of Red Astaxanthin  pellets, and that should cover all bases nutritionally.

The other things I would have in the tank would be a filter sponge and lots of dead leaves.

Calcium values for fruit and veg etc here: <http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Document.aspx?Document=HH3720SX_2237_FRP.doc>

TA Aquaculture should be able to supply the Astax crumb and Spirulina flake, and I've always found them excellent to deal with.

cheers Darrel


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## sr20det (1 May 2012)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Not an expert on water parameters so I will let the members that know more about this to answer those questions, I have kept them in the past and didn't have much success so I tend to stick now to what does well on my local tap water and avoid species that I have had problems with in the past or that I know will need special needs (I am lazy).



Where abouts in London are you bud?  I would prefer to stick to tap water also, being in London.


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## Ady34 (2 May 2012)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I can't help with the CRS, but I can do the water bit.
> 
> 
> ...



Darrel, thanks very much for taking the time to assess and convert the hardness figures into something all will understand   ! 
Looks like the GH as suspected may be a little low for CRS, but ill await some more opinion on this. Also thanks for the feeding tips, probably much cheaper than specialist foods..... although im a sucker for the easy life    .
The filter is inbuilt along the rear of the tank, the first stage is a mass of sponge and in the last chamber the pump is flow adjustable. I may look at getting a spraybar attachment to dissipate flow a little.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time, ill have a proper read through the links and do some more research!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## viktorlantos (2 May 2012)

If you're planning a CRS tank, i would buy a TDS meter. I would not hassle with KH, GH, but would watch out to keep the TDS above 100. Otherwise will have molting problems and you will loose many shrimps.

TDS is ideal between 100-200. We usually keep it between 100-150. 

Other than that an active soil will stabilize the pH. But watch out to choose a soil which stabilize the water around 6.1-6.8. This is the ideal condition for CRS. There are some soils which fix it on higher or even lower. That's not good.

Do not be cheap on filtration. If you loose 10 CRS that will cost you more than a quality external filter!

More light will help you to see your shrimps in their full color. Good qual food is helpful, but helps a lot on the shrimplets survival ratio.

Keep the temp below 25celsius and you will be fine.


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## viktorlantos (2 May 2012)

There's some great mineral products to fix the right KH/GH ratio for shrimps. We're using them with RO.


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## dw1305 (3 May 2012)

Hi all,


> If you're planning a CRS tank, i would buy a TDS meter. I would not hassle with KH, GH, but would watch out to keep the TDS above 100. Otherwise will have molting problems and you will loose many shrimps. TDS is ideal between 100-200. We usually keep it between 100-150.


Without knowing much about CRS, that sounds very good advice. I would definitely  buy a TDS (conductivity) meter, this is the only test meter that you can just dip in and get a meaningful result. 

I use the same approach to tank management as Viktor suggests, use the TDS meter to find a  conductivity range that suits plants and fish in that tank, and then occasionally measure the tank water to make sure it is in the correct range. I just ignore pH, dKH etc as well. Because I use rain-water for the tanks, and have a good quality, but hard, tap water supply, I just adjust the proportion of rain to tap water to alter the conductivity.

All TDS meters are actually conductivity meters, and just use a conversion factor (between 0.5 and 0.64, it should tell you which constant it uses on the meter), to convert conductivity in microS to ppm TDS.  

So 100microS = 50 (or 64 etc) ppm TDS.

cheers Darrel


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## Ady34 (3 May 2012)

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> If you're planning a CRS tank, i would buy a TDS meter. I would not hassle with KH, GH, but would watch out to keep the TDS above 100. Otherwise will have molting problems and you will loose many shrimps.
> 
> TDS is ideal between 100-200. We usually keep it between 100-150.
> 
> ...



Hi Victor,
looking at you other tanks, would i be correct in assuming the CRS are kept in planted scapes, with added fertilisers and maybe even liquid carbon? I know ferts increase tds and nitrates, but is this something that also needs to be taken into account when dosing? This was a question i wanted answering as im planning on this method.
Also thinking ada amazonia powder as a substrate, i presume this will do the job at stabilizing ph at the right levels.
The filter in these tanks is a mini weir system with sponge and bio ceramics so i think itll be pretty efficient and is a good size for the tank.
The tank wont be heated, but from what i remember of previous experience the water maintains a temp of 70-72 degrees f in the house, but ill have to make certain of this.... i do have a heater i can use to be safe if needed.
Thanks for the advice, ill look into a tds meter..... shame as i have one on my G6 filter on the planted 180l, maybe i have some readings from when i first set the tank up to give me an idea of tap tds, i seem to remember it being low but ill have to look back at my notes.
Thanks again,
Cheerio, Ady.


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## Ady34 (3 May 2012)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> All TDS meters are actually conductivity meters, and just use a conversion factor (between 0.5 and 0.64, it should tell you which constant it uses on the meter), to convert conductivity in microS to ppm TDS.
> 
> So 100microS = 50 (or 64 etc) ppm TDS.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Ill check on the G6 conductivity meter to see what it measures in as this equation may help me   .
Cheers,
Ady.


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## viktorlantos (3 May 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hi Victor,
> looking at you other tanks, would i be correct in assuming the CRS are kept in planted scapes, with added fertilisers and maybe even liquid carbon? I know ferts increase tds and nitrates, but is this something that also needs to be taken into account when dosing? This was a question i wanted answering as im planning on this method.
> Also thinking ada amazonia powder as a substrate, i presume this will do the job at stabilizing ph at the right levels.



Cheers   
Amazonia is a common substrate at the CRS breeders, so this is not a bad option. Just need more cycling at the beginning before you introduce shrimps there.

We do keep shrimps with high energy planted tanks with all bells and whistles and shrimp racks too where we do not add anything to the plants. On planted tanks we do use fertilizers mainly EI pre mixed ones daily and in some cases Easy Carbo too. These stuff not change your TDS, or only a minor way. We did not recognized large changes with daily fertilizations. But Nitrate is definatelly something which is different there. In our planted tanks between 20-30mg on shrimp racks 0-5mg.

I would not worry about fertilizers if you go with planted tank / crs combo. Just make sure you do not have high pH swings and the TDS is above 100.

I just seen a lot of baby shrimps on our 60P high energy setup with CO2 injection, EI fert today. Maybe not dose the double liquid carbon, but otherwise this is working very well. We've got a lot of CRS babies around this time from these massively fertilized tanks.


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## Ady34 (3 May 2012)

Thanks Viktor, 
thats all good to hear. Maybe with the lower energy set up (lower light, liquid carbon) ill naturally be using lower quantities of ferts, so rises in the tds through fertilising will be minimal anyway.
Cheers,
Ady.


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## Aquadream (3 May 2012)

I also kept many CRS in planted tanks, with NO3 5-10ppm and PO4 0.5-1ppm. I used desent amount of Easy carbo to.
When I get my next aquascape going I will again stuff it with hundreds of CRS. They breed in my tanks like rats.
This is what they use to look like.


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## Ady34 (3 May 2012)

Hi Aquadream,
they sure look good to me, this is why i like crs so much, when you get good numbers like in your photographs, they look stunning and really draw your attention. Again its good to know liquid carbon and ferts dont seem to effect them if the water itself is good, so thanks for sharing   . 
Any ideas as to what your water tds was in that set up?
Cheers,
Ady.


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## Aquadream (3 May 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hi Aquadream,
> they sure look good to me, this is why i like crs so much, when you get good numbers like in your photographs, they look stunning and really draw your attention. Again its good to know liquid carbon and ferts dont seem to effect them if the water itself is good, so thanks for sharing   .
> Any ideas as to what your water tds was in that set up?
> Cheers,
> Ady.



TDS and Cond were high, because of the ferts. Cond was in the range 350-400uS. TDS in the range of 200-300ppm.
Liquid Carbon does affect the CRS, but for short time and if the amount is not high. Let say if you use half of the recommended dose (or less) from Easy Carbo the CRS have little consern about it. Of course you can not expect very high grades in such conditions, but farely well coloured shrimp for sure.


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## Ady34 (3 May 2012)

Aquadream said:
			
		

> TDS and Cond were high, because of the ferts. Cond was in the range 350-400uS. TDS in the range of 200-300ppm.
> Liquid Carbon does affect the CRS, but for short time and if the amount is not high. Let say if you use half of the recommended dose (or less) from Easy Carbo the CRS have little consern about it. Of course you can not expect very high grades in such conditions, but farely well coloured shrimp for sure.


 
Aquadream,
i dont think ill be considering anything high grade, just red and white will look great to me   !
Thanks for the info on conductivity/tds, in my other planted tank when i didnt add mineral salts to the water my conductivity was in a similar range (with ferts 350-400uS), so im thinking with less ferts this will be even lower which should be ideal. 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Ady34 (14 May 2012)

After the advice above ive ordered a TDS meter today. The tank is awaiting the arrival of plants from Freshwatershrimp and i also got some 'salty shrimp' gh booster too, so will hopefully soon be able to start checking the tank water TDS and see what effect the ferts and gh booster have! Should give me enough time during cycling to strike a balance ready for the shrimp.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Ady34 (14 May 2012)

Should also have mentioned that im using ADA Amazonia powder as part of the substrate which will help reduce and stabilise ph and kh. Ive started a journal for this tank so if youd like to follow its progress the link is below:
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=21455
Cheerio,
Ady.


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