# What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops?



## nry (15 Apr 2010)

What's the current demand like for high street planted aquarium stores?  Lets just say 'Up north' for now, Cumbria to be slightly more precise.

Often wondered on something like this, 11 years of my current job, would much prefer to work for myself, but I am aware of the risk of leaving stable employment and further to mortgages, family life etc!  Planted aquaria seem to be constantly on the increase, and if Sky are showing them on TV now they are beginning to hit the mainsream too...

Is this a worthy consideration in the current economic climate?


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## Dan Crawford (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

TGM are offering franchise opportunities at the moment. It would be a worthy investment in my view, i suppose it depends on local competition and the ability to run a webshop too.


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## nry (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Local competition on the planted tank side is non-existent.  We have a small Maidenhead Aquatics now but their plant selection and associated products is minimal, with only a handful of AquaFleur plants and most of those are the common varieties that people recognise.

My city has nowhere supplying Tropica, you have to drive 20 miles to find their plants, and again the choice is small and little additonal planted tank stuff is available.


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

You can either setup a franchise with TGM or go alone and do it all yourself. 

I would also contact Tropica and Aquafleur to know what they need in terms of ordering plants, and stocking them.

TGM is great, especially as they are the only ADA stockist in the UK (correct me if I am wrong), and I am sure that they do offer great support, but their kit is expensive and maybe not what your demographics need right now. 

There is always space for a good plant shop, and nowadays job wise nothing is certain.


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## nry (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

TGM are, I believe, sole UK distributor for Tropica anyhow...not sure on AquaFleur but I suspect they aren't involved directly there.


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## JamesM (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				nry said:
			
		

> TGM are, I believe, sole UK distributor for Tropica anyhow


Not for Tropica plants 



			
				nry said:
			
		

> not sure on AquaFleur but I suspect they aren't involved directly there.


Aquafleur is handled by their parent company, Aquadistri


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## nry (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Think I meant to write 'importer' as opposed to 'distributor' but I could still be wrong


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## JamesM (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				nry said:
			
		

> Think I meant to write 'importer' as opposed to 'distributor' but I could still be wrong


TGM are distributors/importers for the Tropica Aquacare fertilizer program, and not plants.


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## nry (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Ahh, I see   All becomes as clear as disturbed substrate


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## Garuf (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Basically TGM only distribute a tiny part of Tropicas portfolio, the fertilizer side. I've noticed that my local, Pet City has stopped selling that entirely which has irked me no end as I was planning on using it, the plants are distributed by another agent acting as part of Tropica.

I personally think that there would be a high interest if you got the right location and shop, I live in Hyde Park in Leeds at the moment and every time I go through Headingly I see small shops that would be perfect, they're busy, in an affluent area would be suitable and easily accessible from all forms of transport. They're also in standout locations, across from a busy supermarket, it'd attract the casual user which would build your trade. I don't know if nows the right time, it's something I've thought about for the entering in the next few years very seriously but I just don't know. I know that people want something for nothing and the way prices are creeping up without some larger cheaper manufactorers entering the market or unless you're prepared to search unorthodox avenues I think there's too high an error margin.


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Get substrates sent from China.. They must be cheap..  Hell, get the whole aquarium kit sent from China, that will make your shop more accessible.

Keeping plants on a tank is expensive, if you want the best...


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## Garuf (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I imagine shipping in bulk high enough to be able to sell it cheaply is a much higher quantity than that the average shop could sell. And I'm not so sure China would be the right place, I think the quality wouldn't be so great, a lot of stuff is made to cost and that's not great.


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

@ Garuf..

I fully understand that, some stuff "Made in China" is not good quality, but my post was in response to what most people that walk into a highstreet pet shop wants. They would even buy puppies not knowing for sure where they came from at a pet shop, imagine trying to sell a substrate bag that costs Â£20? 

If I had a plant shop I would stock the very cheap, cheap, average and very expensive kit alongside eachother, but would expect to sell much more of the cheap kit.


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## bigmatt (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

+1 Luis
  Get a unit on an industrial estate - maximum floor/warehouse space for minimum money.  Then stock a range of equipment from cheap to high end(look at the number of people on here using cheap ebay gear, and most would be prepared to pay a opuple of quid more to support a UK retailer).  Not that i've thought about this you understand, but i'd work on the fact that for a big enough range of kit and/or livestock (visit Ferrybridge Aquatics in Yorkshire if you want a lesson in lots of livestock in a small space!) people are prepared to travel.  And if you know that you can visit Little Mountain Aquascapes in Cumbria (for example - i expect a cut if you use the name  ) and come away with ALL the gearyou need in one run, people are prepared to travel a bit further (and spend a bit more...)
Interesting thread!!!
Matt


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I would like to setup something in East London on a industrial unit, and work thru ebay, although visits would be welcome..  

Cannot be that hard, that after seeing the horrible shops near me always full of people..


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## Lisa_Perry75 (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Cannot be that hard


I think people are underestimating the amount of time effort and money that goes into making a fish shop work. Think about all the costs of water and electric. Especially if you are on a water meter. Importing cheapest of the cheap _might_ be fine for hardware but what about livestock? The stuff thats going to sell is your neons and goldfish. You buy in cheap, fish are shipped in really stressful conditions and come to your shop. Theres deformed ones, your one step away from whitespot. Oh poo, you got whitespot in all those fish. Got to quarantine them. Oops, you didn't get them out of the main display quick enough or even better, a mystery illness wipes out most of your livestock. Oh and don't forget the unexplained losses, probably at least 10-20 fish a day when I worked at Porton Garden center. Your main clientele will want the earth for no time, hassle or money. They generally won't care about fish health as "they're just fish" and cheap to replace doesn't help this.

Sorry for the essay, but thought I would enlighten people about a few pitfalls that might bestow any potential shop proprieter.


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Hi Lisa..

I used to work at a pet shop during my school holidays, many many moons ago.. It isn't indeed that hard, same principles apply to what you have at home, but on a bigger scale. Bigger tanks for quarantine and bigger filters. 

Obviously taking care of + 300 fish is not the same as taking care of 50, but it is not that hard. 

The hard part is changing from "secure" wages, to something that is uncertain.

For example, I set up data centres and call centres for a living, and to many people it sounds hard to keep track of what needs done, especially when they have issues with a their personal computer, but in reality it isn't that hard, when someone likes what they do it become easy.

Same with a Plant/Pet shop. If someone wouldn't mind changing water by the gallons daily, deal with customers, have a good passion for plants and fish, is able to learn as they go along and follows normal animal husbandry keeping quarantines, etc, how hard can it be to setup a pet shop?

A doddle I say...


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## LondonDragon (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I agree with Lisa, its hard work and takes a lot of dedication, if you haven't got the right staff to help or you are on your own this can quickly take over your life. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it and there would be plenty of shops all over the place 

Luis I look forward to visiting your store in the near future


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## Mark Evans (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

 you all make sound so easy!


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> I agree with Lisa, its hard work and takes a lot of dedication, if you haven't got the right staff to help or you are on your own this can quickly take over your life. If it was that easy then everyone would be doing it and there would be plenty of shops all over the place
> 
> Luis I look forward to visiting your store in the near future




Good man! I hope to see you there buying kit.. 

People do not do it because they are conditioned to the "safe" job mentality, and are usually afraid of starting something for themselves..

With the so many bad shops you have seen in London you are telling me that you would not do a better job than them?


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> you all make sound so easy!



Is it not? 

Hard is to die and come back again.. , everything else is easy.


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## Mark Evans (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Is it not?
> 
> Hard is to die and come back again.. , everything else is easy.



i cant knock that way of thinking


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It has guided me through life..  

Will send an invite to the shop grand opening in East London.. hahahah


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## stevec (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Someone once told me plants are the ideal business opportunity as once you have your stock and you look after them,cuttings seeds etc they self propagate?  Simple 
I wouldnt go for a high street set up if you specialise and advertise with a decent range people will travel to you. Industrial units are cheaper to rent and run than shops 
i have a business and have 3 phase heavy industrial machines running all day and the electricty and gas bills are cheaper than my home bills so dont worry about running costs
 you soon find that once established suppliers will find you and become a hindrance
If i new now what it takes to run a business i would never have started, your job becomes 24/7 7 days a week 
you can never switch off


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## JamesM (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Get substrates sent from China.. They must be cheap..  Hell, get the whole aquarium kit sent from China, that will make your shop more accessible.
> 
> Keeping plants on a tank is expensive, if you want the best...


They are cheap, yes, but you need to buy at least one 40ft shipping containers worth to make it financially worthwhile. Lets not forget import tax, paying for the container, dock fees, 6 months of waiting, no guarantee for damages, and much, much more. As part of the deal, you can however brand the substrate anything you want, even use a cheesy photo of yourself on the packing!


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## JamesM (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				stevec said:
			
		

> Someone once told me plants are the ideal business opportunity as once you have your stock and you look after them,cuttings seeds etc they self propagate?  Simple



If you can do this and provide sufficient quantities with the same quality as Tropica or Aquafleur for the same money or less, I will buy from you all day long. Keeping plants is one thing, farming them is another. The space required for multiple species is unreal.


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## tyrophagus (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				stevec said:
			
		

> If i new now what it takes to run a business i would never have started, your job becomes 24/7 7 days a week
> you can never switch off



I 2nd that!  Owning your own business has some rewards like self determination, potential financial reward for hard work and the freedom to say "I'll take next week off".  However the reality is it's 24/7, you wake up and go to sleep thinking about work stuff that will not leave your head, you worry about money, your staff think you are loaded but actually you get paid last and never enough to warrant the hard work you put in.  The government finds a way to increase your paperwork and take more from you each year  You want to take a week off but your staff are 'sick' so you have to cover the phones.  You're exhausted because you open over the weekends and even if you wanted to sell you can't because you have to work off the debt for at least 5 years before you come out without losing your investment.

I don't even have a tank set up yet and when I looked at TGM franchise I thought it looked interesting, so much less stressful than my job.  I'd rather do something I enjoy and that is creative. Part of me really wants to do it!

*The biggest pitfall I see is turning your hobby and your escape into your daily grind!*  I want to make a living planting tanks or taking photographs of the landscape (Takashi Amano comes to mind suddenly  ) but the reality is that I'll make a living working harder than most and finding something else to do to relax that does not involve tanks or cameras.

Boy! It's been a long week. sorry.


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## nry (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Never mentioned TGM myself, can't deny it has piqued my interest though.  I then get curious on whether I'd rather have something 100% my own or have the backup of an established brand to get the best start.

Obviously started a fairly good topic though, keep it going


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## stevec (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> stevec said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




no business would ever start if it thinks it has to compete with the big boys, you just need to offer the quality and service or stock a different/better range than most lfs

we would have no corner shops if they all thought whats the point i cant compete with the supermarket down the street

you dont have to be cheaper people pay for service and quality I am often told by my customers that we quoted dearer but we got the job because of our quicker turnaround


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## ghostsword (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Well said stevec.. If you offer a good service, are passionate about what you are doing and know your stuff, you will find people to buy your kit.

James is right, keeping a handfull of plants is easy, but farming them in a large scale is other story.. but why farm them in a large scale? Could you just not speciallise in a certain type of plant? For example Rotala's, Amazon's, Java Ferns and Crypts? It will be hard work, but nothing worthwhile is easy, right? 

You will work for yourself, and do it 24/7, no time off, no holidays for sure, but what you put in you will get back, right? 

The main issue I think will be to do accounts, and sorting out the taxman, that will be an issue for sure.

Regarding buying from China.. Joking, joking, joking.. I would like my customers to come back to buy more kit, not to return faulty items in less than a year.. Obviously non mechanical materials are other story, a rock is a rock, you buy it in Japan or buy it in China, or pick it up at the Penines..


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## Etherelda (15 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

My partner and I are into homebrew. A couple have done something similar with their hobby. 

They have an industrial unit in Colchester, and sell a great range of kit, and its great to go and look at it all. Their opening hours fit round their kids schooling, and customers like ourselves are prepared to go the distance to go and visit. http://www.colchesterhomebrew.co.uk/

Ely aquatics is also run from an industrial unit, and works out well.

My dad imports containers from china every month or so, and i'll ask him for a basic figure of costs etc. After seeing whats for sale for cheap in HK, they must be getting it from mainland china and making Â£Â£ on it.


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> They are cheap, yes, but you need to buy at least one 40ft shipping containers worth to make it financially worthwhile. Lets not forget import tax, paying for the container, dock fees, 6 months of waiting, no guarantee for damages, and much, much more. As part of the deal, you can however brand the substrate anything you want, even use a cheesy photo of yourself on the packing!



I got it now..


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## Etherelda (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

There has to be good substrate for sale in china... Maybe some clayballs, under 5mm diameter..  Then repackage and put my fancy pic on it.. LOL...

Obviously I do not have the same clout as Oliver, but how bad can it be?


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## NeilW (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Obviously I do not have the same clout as Oliver, but how bad can it be?



Just do the double thumbs-up and you can sell anything 

 ...I bought it


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## Jase (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Just do the double thumbs-up and you can sell anything
> 
> ...I bought it



Agreed. After all it's only dried mud. Terrible stuff in my _latest _opinion.


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## Steve Smith (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

You also have to bare in mind that to buy and sell livestock, you need to have the right licenses, but in order to get those licenses you have to be inspected by the RSPCA, selling the live stock.  How can you buy the livestock in the first place without the license?!

Essentially you need someone with the relevant paperwork buy in the stock for you so you can be inspected and obtain your own licenses.

I think running a fish store would be an amazing job, but I don't think I'd be able to hack the business side of things to be honest.


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

ahhahaha.. see, how hard can it be actually to setup a good shop, if two thumbs up sells a bag of earth? 

If people see a good planted tank on a shop front they will want to know more, and get more and more into the hobby.

I may start to sell aquatic plants at the Upton Park Queens market, take some tanks already setup and let people see how amazing a water garden can be. 

Do a Dell Boy, sell plants and substrate from my suitcase. LOL.


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> You also have to bare in mind that to buy and sell livestock, you need to have the right licenses, but in order to get those licenses you have to be inspected by the RSPCA, selling the live stock.  How can you buy the livestock in the first place without the license?!
> 
> Essentially you need someone with the relevant paperwork buy in the stock for you so you can be inspected and obtain your own licenses.
> 
> I think running a fish store would be an amazing job, but I don't think I'd be able to hack the business side of things to be honest.



Are plants deemed as livestock? Who cares about fish anyway?  

Sell plants, substrates, wood and rocks..


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## LondonDragon (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> With the so many bad shops you have seen in London you are telling me that you would not do a better job than them?


If I had no worries about job security and stuff I would jump at the idea of setting up something down in London.
I am sure if done in the right manner there would be a nice following down here, there would need to be a lot of dedication though, running a fish store is not as simple as you make it sound, and you would need at least two people that knew it inside out to ensure when one was away the other took over.


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

The issue about job security is a illusion, nothing is secure nowadays.  No more jobs for life.

I make is sound easy, and it just sounds easy, I am sure that it isn't. But it is not that hard that it cannot be tried. 

The issue is when you need time off, that is the bit that I have not sorted out yet. 

I think that if I had to setup something it would be anything but fish. I feel that once you start with fish anything can happen, one diseased fish and you could loose all your stock, as usually the tanks share the same filter and sumps.

I have been at my company for 8 years, and the place should close down soon, so I will try my luck at a selling plants, even if it is on a low scale.

The really hard bit should be the accounts, but I think that I will outsource that.


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## stevec (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

There is no risk in setting up something that is already a proven formula there are 1000's of LFS across the country most of them will be making a reasonable living for there owners so the idea works (even for the bad ones)


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## JamesM (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

That's what accountants are for! 

Seriously though, there is money to be made and there is room in the market for more aquascaping orientated shops. I'd like nothing more than to see an explosion of 10 TGM's, 10 PlantedBox's, 10 AquaEssentials, etc. open up as dedicated shops around the uk. So if you have the money, know-how, and big enough 'rocks' then go for it! The more the merrier! Its about bringing hard to get products to the masses, and driving prices down. Anything to benefit the hobbyist 

I think stocking fish is essential as its basic bread and butter money that keep people coming back for more. Fish prices are amazingly cheap, but the losses are high (order 300 ottos and you end up with 20 or so survivors in some cases). Even with this, my local MA makes most of his profit from fish.


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## nry (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I know that locally we now have a very strong fish/livestock availability, though perhaps not overly specialised.  Shrimps for example are restricted to dubious 'amano' and 'algae eater' varieties.  I don't know if I'd initially want to stock fish, perhaps something I'd consider later down the line 'if' this doesn't end up a pipe dream!  I've had 3 close 'business' startup plans, one got almost to production stage, perhaps it's about time one came to fruition!


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## NeilW (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

How about stocking fish but specialised in being suitable for the planted tank?  That way if you stocked tetras or similar you would also get passing trade from non-planted tank fish people and try convince them into the ways of the plant?


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## nry (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I am aware of 5 aquarium/pet shops in the city, two of which are large brands (Maidenhead and pets@Home).  I suspect you'd have to be pretty specialised with the fish to compete strongly...


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

God, 300 ottos and 20 survive? That would be just moral destroying.. 

Maybe just stock livebearers and breed them at the back?  

So pet shops make most of their money on the fish?


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## JamesM (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> So pet shops make most of their money on the fish?



Highly unlikely that most local fish shops make their money on the fish, but my local MA do. Aquatics Unlimited (aquatics-online.co.uk) make most of their profit on dog kennels and paddling pools. 

You can go in to this and lose your way very easily by following profit over the initial idea of a true aquascaping shop.


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## ghostsword (16 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I was just surprised that they would make money from fish..  

I would not bother keeping them, just plants, tanks, rocks and wood. And fancy substrate with my pic on..  

Like to see fish, but would not like to loose the stock over a disease.. Maybe I would keep only arowana, and import some.. that may be the only fish I would look at selling..


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## Gill (17 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

There is def, alot to be gained from stocking more plants. I buy nearly all plants online/forums, as i cannot be bothered to travel to out of town large LFS'. Thankfully i have a PAH within 5mins walking distance (coventry)thats stocks good tropica plants when in need of good HC.

Losses in fish transport can be VV high in some circumstances due to airports and customs. 
I know last year an LFS was telling me how a VVLarge order of fish was lost due to idoitic customs, opening boxes for inspection outdoors. 
Fhere are more fish loss horror stories over on Monsterfishkeepers from importers with pix included or Koi Vats full of dead fish. 

Some of the Bulf plant suppliers on Ebay Like Mossymo and Last Trading Post are simply Go-Betweens and get a commission of 70pence per item sold. 
When I ordered 1200 bunches of Vallis, it was shipped direct from malaysia (growers) and was the best qulaity i had ever seen.

I have been unemployed for nearly a year now, and i am in talks about franchises or going it alone.


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## bigmatt (17 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Maybe discuss it with your local LFSs and arrange a mutually beneficial arrangement (We recommend xxxxxxx for Livestock, They recommend you for plants!) - saves all the bother with livestock!


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## ghostsword (17 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

@ Gill .. If you are unemployed you should for sure try selling plants.. Start small and see where it takes you. I would get a heated propagator and try my luck at growing plants that people are always looking for, such as HC, Riccia, etc..


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## gratts (17 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

You'd have to be very clever to run a profitable aquatics shop without selling at least the most basic fish. Just rock, wood, plants? You'd be hardpushed!
Most Maidenhead Aquatics (and probably most larger aquatics 'superstore' type shops) get most of their sales from pond related goods in spring and summer, and tanks moving into autumn/winter. Then comes dry aquarium goods - foods, water treatments etc, then fish, then lastly plants.
Dry goods generate the most $$$, but the markup % is nowhere near the same league as livestock. Sure you get loses - good importers offer live on arrival, healthy systems, tanks, acclimatisation etc all limit loses. 20 survivals out of 300? Somethings gone wrong along the line, even with otos! Set up a decent system, with tank isolation, UV filters, good maintenance and you'll rarely experience any of the horror stories of total wipeouts.

Forget growing your own plants or breeding your own fish, there's no way you could do this on a scale that is financially viable when you see the pennies some fish/plants cost.
Potential markup on plants is decent, throw some money at a good sale tank and you'll get plants growing rather than dying and get very little waste.

With the know-how it's not overly hard. IMO the hardest part would be the contacts side of things, importers, wholesalers, getting contracts, trying to compete with companies that have hundreds of stores and can hammer prices down. If you offer quality and customer service then given patience reputation will follow, with a strong customer base  forming.
If I had the funds it's something I'd love to give a shot. There's always a risk, but the rewards are there. Going down a franchise route with TGM, MA et al would limit the risk, but also limit any rewards. Swings and roundabouts


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## ghostsword (18 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Thanks, lots of good ideas here, and one of the best threads on this forum, imo.

TGM is a great shop, great tanks, but their kit is just too expensive, and some of it probably overpriced. MA looks good, been at the Morden shop.

In London I believe that something like MA has more chance than a TGM shop, but maybe that is because I am poor..  

TGM would be the pet shop equivalent of Borders, people would go there to see, browse and spend the time, but probably would buy most the kit online. Look at what happened to Borders in London? 

For sure there is a demand for quality high street planted aquarium shops..


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## rawr (18 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

This is a big discussion and I've often thought about it myself. 

I think hobbies are such a niche thing. Especially somethin like fishkeeping/aquascaping. I mean it's growing for sure but in my opinion not enough to take that much of a risk. I often wonder how owners of shops such as TGM and Aqua Essentials live off the profits they make because it can't be that great but obviously it's enough. 

I think even if there's a niche in the market (which there definately is in this case) you need to have a 'business head' and probably a great deal of luck to survive - especially in the current climate. 

It's definately an exciting prospect though and I'd say if you can afford to and plan it well enough then it would be a great venture.


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## Gill (18 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

One of the most important things to consider with aquatics and starting up on your own is:
Making lasting relationships with suppliers and Local/Near/Far Stores that you know. The more you get to know them the more likely they are to help you out when it come to setting up your own. This I know from Experience, Some LFS' are more than happy to help with fulfilling your first few orders while your licences are being dealt with. And they are the best people to put you in touch with the most reliable suppliers and transporters. Plus you know what the Loss rates will be depending on Source. 
I keep in touch with a lot of stores near and far to make sure if help is needed I can rely on them. 

I would say this year is one of the best times to "go it alone", as councils are more than willing to help and property/rental prices are still low enough.


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## mlgt (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Looking forward to some substrate with a picture of Luis.
Also if you open a market stall Im sure I will pop by and take some pics for ya


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## ghostsword (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Looking forward to some substrate with a picture of Luis.
> Also if you open a market stall Im sure I will pop by and take some pics for ya



Cheers Rik, it is well appreciated.. Would like to be the only market stall with aquatic plants and display tanks.  

One display tank would be enough to convince the masses, wouldn't need fish.


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## mlgt (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Untill you tell them they need 25kg of epson salts


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## nry (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Agree in many ways - I've never seen an aquascaped aquarium in any LFS I've been in, locally or otherwise.  I don't think many fish owners have even considered there's more to fish keeping than some elodea and cabomba looking a little forlorn in the corner of the tank.


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## Gill (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> mlgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Personally i would steer clear of doing aquatics on a market stall. 20 years in market retail stalls = aquatics + scrotes = smashed tanks and lots of thieving buggers.


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## dw1305 (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Hi all,
I'd start selling a limited range of plants via Ebay whilst your working, you could see what there is a market for, and over time, as the money came in, expand your range to include other small non-perishable easily posted items, things that come to mind are stainless steel mesh squares, (ex) medical tweezers, scissors etc. If you go for small items you don't have trouble with storage and if you have some low value "bread & butter" items as well as more expensive it will keep you ticking over. If you can build up a cash float you have the option to buy a job lot of Koralias, Small Eheim filters, T5 luminaires, Optiwhite cubes etc. if the chance appears. If you are interested in propagating equipment the Met. police may have regular sales of the stuff they've seized from c*nnabis growers, and lights, "Fill and drain systems" and propagators etc. may be available at knock-down prices.  

I'd also have a look at what "Rare Aquatics", "TGM", "TA Aquaculture" and "the Last Trading Post", sell for other ideas. If you don't mind posting livestock, shrimps might offer another line.  

I used to grow and sell a few plants (more unusual Hardy Ornamental Nursery Stock & a few grasses) before Ebay as a side line after work. It was hard work and became less and less lucrative as the range of plants you could buy of the shelf expanded and even though horticulture was a fast growing sector the demand for the more specialist plants declined.

One problem was that the gardening general public didn't really have any conception of the true value of a plant, when I started I specialised in plants which were expensive because they were difficult to propagate (usually they needed to be grafted, or you got a low percentage take as a cutting) or slow growing, but  relatively easy to grow once you got them, and initially I did quite well, but in any location (maybe not so much in a major city) it's a small market and easily saturated. It maybe an option again with the wider reach of the internet. 

The major problem was that people might like the look of a "Daphne bholua" or "Kalmia latifolia" say, but because it was a little  plant for Â£10 (and very little profit at Â£10) they would buy a cheaper "alternative" say a Daphne odora (much easier to propagate) or even a Lavender or Mallow, which was only Â£2, but only cost the producer 20p to produce. 

The other problem was that the plants in vogue changed even amongst enthusiasts (bit like fish really, I'll bet that the "L. number" vogue is almost over), often with a new plant being very sort after, but interest in it rapidly declining if it was particularly difficult to grow (say very slug prone or not hardy), or the supply expanding if it was easy to grow (Corydalis flexuosa for example), or in some cases they just went out of fashion for no apparent reason.

cheers Darrel


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## George Farmer (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I've considered going into the aquatic industry full-time it but it's too risky given my circumstances.

I don't think the demand is there yet to justify going full-on into a 'high street' planted tank shop.  However, I do like the franchise idea from TGM, as it presents less risk, with a reputation and support network already there.  I would also like to see other successful online store branching out into running their own physical shops too.

Don't forget that your perception of the planted tank hobby maybe a little distorted; a result of spending a lot of time on forums like this and assuming that more fishkeeping hobbyists are into the planted thing.  It simply isn't the case.

Go on to the plant section of general fishkeeping forums and you'll soon realise that the vast majority of fishkeepers still have no clue about the modern planted tank and aquascaping hobby.  Even fewer are willing to invest the necessary time, effort and cash to be able to run a half-decently aquascaped and well-maintained planted aquarium.  

What is really disappointing is the lack of decent planted display tanks around the UK aquatic retailers.  These are potentially the best possible advert for the hobby for potential customers, but shop after shop simply do not have a clue.  I have actually considered running training courses for shop managers and staff on how to set up, aquascape and maintain a planted tank.  Unfortunately I do not have the time.

I've been in the hobby for about 8 years now and have spend a good proportion of that trying my best to spread the word.  Things like PFK (of old) and UKAPS have helped, but going back to my original point, I think it would be very challenging to make a living from a high street planted tank shop in the UK right now.  With all due respect, and I fully encourage the enthusiasm, I think some of you may be a little naive to think otherwise.

Please, do prove me wrong.  I'd love to pay a visit and I may even buy something!


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## JamesM (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Well said imo.


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## JamesM (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

btw, are PFK not supporting the planted tank hobby anymore then?


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## stevec (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

If unsure about a shop why not ask all your LFS if you could set up a display tank they could supply some of the normal equipment you could offer the more expertise stuff.


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## nry (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Anywhere high street does, in my opinion, need an online presence too - this is where the mass aquascaping market is for the most part.


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## George Farmer (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> btw, are PFK not supporting the planted tank hobby anymore then?


Some nice features coming soon, I hear...

I liked Keymaker's Your Tanks in the latest issue.



			
				stevec said:
			
		

> If unsure about a shop why not ask all your LFS if you could set up a display tank they could supply some of the normal equipment you could offer the more expertise stuff.


A lot of shops simply aren't interested.  It's worth asking though for sure, and I'm certainly not the only UKAPS Member that has helped set up display aquariums for the industry with a view to promoting the planted tank and aquascaping hobby.  

Long-term maintenance is likely the limiting factor, and being limited to products and techniques only the shop sell and advocate.  How many LFS will recommend dosing nitrates and phosphates and having uber-circulation in a planted tank where you go through 10x more CO2 than 'usual'?  Unfortunately a lot of the trade is still in the dark ages where this hobby is concerned.

Slowly but surely, with the help of people like us and the likes of TGM and other decent specialist shops, we see improvements.  Small steps...

When I think of how the UK hobby was when I started; pressurised CO2 was real rarity...  And that was less than 10 years ago.


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## a1Matt (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				stevec said:
			
		

> If unsure about a shop why not ask all your LFS if you could set up a display tank they could supply some of the normal equipment you could offer the more expertise stuff.



I tried this.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> How many LFS will recommend dosing nitrates and phosphates and having uber-circulation in a planted tank where you go through 10x more CO2 than 'usual'?  Unfortunately a lot of the trade is still in the dark ages where this hobby is concerned.



and found this. they would only accept it using off the shelf products they stocked.  After one too many 'phosphate is evil' discussions I retreated gracefully!

George's, Darrels and Gills recent posts in this thread really resonate with my experiences and opinions.


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## nry (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

TGM shows that high street can work, though I wonder on the income generated from the high street compares with that generated online through their website and via eBay.


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## stevec (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

[quote="George Farmer
Slowly but surely, with the help of people like us and the likes of TGM and other decent specialist shops, we see improvements.  Small steps...

When I think of how the UK hobby was when I started; pressurised CO2 was real rarity...  And that was less than 10 years ago.[/quote]

Surely those that dare try it now time they become established (working on the notion that you dont make money for the 1st 2 years of business) will reap the benefit


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## nry (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I'd imagine so yeah - I had the idea of an online house sales website.  Tell it where you want to live, how much to spend etc, then hit search.  Never did anything with it, 12 months later, bang, everyone is doing it!


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## Dave Spencer (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				nry said:
			
		

> TGM shows that high street can work, though I wonder on the income generated from the high street compares with that generated online through their website and via eBay.



TGM are not what I would term high street outlet. I`m not sure whether you have been there, but a visit would show you how much they have elevated themselves above high street aquatics. TGM is more than just somewhere to buy plants, it is a delve in to the world of what the planted tank hobby should be.

Elevating yourself above the scabby little joints selling non aquatic plants is easy. Becoming a successful brand that will succeed in a minuscule hobby is another. I think George is right in suggesting that visiting planted tank forums gives an inflated view of the actual size of the hobby.

Nevertheless, no one ever got rich listening to me!

Dave.


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## pjf220 (19 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I  know personally, I try and stay away from the bigger commercial businesses like Maidenhead Aquatics. There are 5 localish to me and the quality of the fish and plants really varies a lot. In one, the fish were really well kept, yet the plants, you'd have to pulll off all the algee to seperate the individual plants. I much prefer to support local small businesses and pay that bit more. As long as the staff come across knowledgeable and they keep the place in order, ie, removing dead fish from tanks promptly, keeping plants clean, then it gives me more confidence in what I'm investing in and I'm far more likely to return. Unlike many businesses, the aquarium shops need staff who come across as hobbiests/enthusiasts and not as someone who is just working there to earn a wage. But of cours, in this day and age, it's vital to have a web side with online ordering and it's vital that this is kept on top of. If orders go out late or the web site is not kept up to date constantly, people tend to steer away.

I think it's a brave step to set up a shop, but if you do it, I hope it succeeds. Sadly my local shop fell foul of increased rental prices and increased difficulty in parking.


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## nry (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> nry said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I haven't got rich at all yet so no worries there 

I mean high street in the terms of sales generated over the counter vs online.  From all posts on here, TGM is certainly not just a shop selling plants


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## Brenmuk (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Interesting that the moment opening a high street shop was mentioned that the discussion became bogged down with the complexity of keeping livestock when what we are interested in here is plants and equipment for planted tanks that you can't get at your lfs. If you need to sell fish to make a high street shop work I wouldn't bother starting there I would start small from home selling via ebay (similar to Darrels suggestion) then scale up to a warehouse and then maybe open it up as shop. Someone in our office did this a few years ago for rubber stamps (related to card making/craft hobby). They effectively swapped a well paid 9-5 IT job for a low paid 24/7 no holiday existence but I think they are happy being their own boss. Along the way before their turnover was high enough to support them they had to hold down part time jobs on top of their business.

I would also be a bit wary starting a hobby based business atm because I think the next few years are going to be financially tough for many with less disposable income. If I were to lose my job the first thing I would cut back on is my hobbies.

One thing that did catch my eye was the shop in Hong Kong in this post http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10876  where there was a tank selling ready grown carpets of HC - selling ready made carpets could be an interesting place to start for a small home grown business - a bit like the turf rolls for gardens.


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## ghostsword (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

@ Brenmuk,

I do agree with you as well, if to have a successful one has to also sell fish, then it will be harder, keeping fish is much harder than keeping plants. , much much harder on my opinion. I got healthy fish, they usually last two to three years, and this for neons, have not got fungus, or fin rot or even ich on my tank (not yet!), but I keep a quarantine tank, and do not have than many fish.

On a shop it would be different, this would mean keeping lots and lots of fish, high turn over, and that would mean for sure lots of deaths. 

Regarding hobbies, keeping plants and planted tanks is not just a hobby, more of a way of life. Does unemployed people stop smoking? Or stop having dogs and cats? 

I have now started to offer small tumbler glasses with riccia on it, as a pet plant..  my colleagues cannot kill it, no over watering and lots of sun light, just got to change the water twice a week.. Perfect pet! 

I do believe that a good planted shop will be sucessfull, just plants, no fish.


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## paul.in.kendal (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Someone said it early on in the thread - why turn a passion into a 'just a job'?  Most of us get on very happily doing jobs that are rewarding and diverting, without being passionate about them.  It may be tempting to think turning a passion into a job would be heaven itself - and I'm sure if you get it right it can be.  But I think the greater likelihood is that you'd destroy the passion itself.  

I love gardening and cooking, but I'd hate to lose the joy they bring by making them my job.  I bet we all know people who do something that nominally they are passionate about, but who've seen the thing degrade into something rather less gripping than they anticipated.  Surely the most successful businesses follow profit as well as passion - if you discover a sideline is generating significant profit, and the passionate germ that started the business is not, then you too easily wind up mowing lawns (instead of designing gardens), or doing endless hog-roasts (instead of running your own restaurant).

George is passionate about plants and fishkeeping - but I've got to say my eyebrows raised a little when I saw the latest PFK tank, overstocked with (what I think are) grotesque and bizarre goldfish and plastic plants.  Only my taste and my opinion, you understand.  And no criticism whatever is intended of Mr F - it's yet another brilliant tank in its way.  Perhaps George loved it, or perhaps it's just the price to be paid for creating some of the gems he's produced in previous PFKs.  But I guess it shows that being your own boss or freelancing does not mean you're 'in charge' - commercial pressure, customers' requirements and market forces are all there to divert you away from your passion.

Having been so negative I'll say that, if I had what it takes, I'd snap up a TGM franchise like THAT!


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## nry (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

I ended up with computers for a job which destroyed the desire to have them at home, however I only have 1 small 60cm aquarium at home...

I'd like a job where I am the boss - that in itself would be the reward I reckon.


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## Steve Smith (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				nry said:
			
		

> I ended up with computers for a job which destroyed the desire to have them at home...



My situation exactly...


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## nry (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Still, I have debated my own computer-based business, so things would go full circle.  Again, doing it on your own is different than doing what you are 'told' to do by others...


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## ghostsword (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> nry said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to say that I am the opposite.. I love computers, and I work with computers day in day out, couldn't get tired of it, and holidays for me are taken because I either have to travel to South Africa to see my inlaws with the kids, or to Portugal to see my family, and more often than not I take my laptop, blackberry and vpn key just in case. I spent all day connected to a computer, and when I go home, after putting the kids to sleep I turn on my laptop, which is on my bed, and surf the net, etc, until 2am everyday. 

There is a saying that if you run for fun you do not get tired.  

Having a shop doing what one enjoys I am sure that it would not be a chore. 

When I went to TGM, Jim turned up to meet us. You could clearly see that that man enjoys what he does for a living, there is simply no doubt about that. 

How many people do you know, or met, that enjoys what they do for a living?

I am not sure that a aquatic plant shop gives that much money, but sometimes money isn't everything.


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## Gill (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Not sure if this has been said yet, but another thing to think about.
you do not have to set up a store using everything brand spanking new. You would be suprised the amount of tanks and equipment that are thrown away.


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## ghostsword (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

Completely true.. one could even setup a store just selling second hand tanks.. There are some real good bargains out there..  

Even taking just unwanted fish..


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## a1Matt (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				Gill said:
			
		

> Not sure if this has been said yet, but another thing to think about.
> you do not have to set up a store using everything brand spanking new. You would be suprised the amount of tanks and equipment that are thrown away.



I'm surprised at seeing entire LFSs for sale on ebay!
Sometimes hundreds of dry good products, other times rows and rows of tanks and/or filtration systems.


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## ghostsword (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> Gill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe it is a bad sign..


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## ghostsword (26 Apr 2010)

*Re: What's the demand for high street planted aquarium shops*

About soil.. It seems that just a pretty face is not just what makes the soil good (or not!):
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/naturesoil_production


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