# Salty UKAPS?



## BigTom (2 Apr 2015)

Hi all,

I've just started a little foray into the salty side and wondered if anyone had a recommendation for a reef forum to poke my nose into? Preferably with some of the same sort of knowledgeable and progressive folk that we have on here!

Cheers,
T


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## Another Phil (2 Apr 2015)

Hi BigTom,
Can't help with a forum but WetWebMedia had lots of useful info when you dig into it.
An Asterina sp. example;
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/asterinafaqs.htm

(a friend of mine had a marine tank for a while recently so I can't imagine answering any other marine questions! ).
cheers phil


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## foxfish (2 Apr 2015)

I am not really into reefs tanks anymore but I was for about 30 years.
 I found in the early days of internet forums about 15 years ago, the ones I was involved with, were nice and friendly.
 However finding a cosy, informative one without the "know it all arguments" & differing opinions, in the later years was very difficult!.
Not much help ... sorry..


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## ukjay (2 Apr 2015)

BigTom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've just started a little foray into the salty side and wondered if anyone had a recommendation for a reef forum to poke my nose into? Preferably with some of the same sort of knowledgeable and progressive folk that we have on here!
> 
> ...



Hello,

If you want a knowledge base to learn from etc, then you will be hard pushed to beat the site listed below. I used it for years,  made some good friends and can not fault the majority of things you find on it, very informative, you just got to be able to ignore the banter sometimes.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/forum.php?s=338a01e403de3a39a74d3af45d3e1ab8
Hopefully a link to a reef site is not in breach of policy, if it is I apologise.

kind regards

Jay


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## stu_ (2 Apr 2015)

Any use ?
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/recommend-a-salty-site.27585/


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## Martin in Holland (3 Apr 2015)

reefcentral.com and nano-reef.com are the ones I use at the moment.


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## Colinlp (3 Apr 2015)

I keep  1000l reef tank, I'm a member of Ultimate reef and The Salty Box, the later being a smaller more friendly forum but with a better knowledge level. The downside is there is less variation in answers and they're mostly northerners


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## BigTom (3 Apr 2015)

Super, thanks for all the suggestions chaps. I think I'd found most of them myself but good to have opinions on where's good. 

Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk


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## Colinlp (3 Apr 2015)

What have you got set up so far? What filtration method are you adopting? 

It's a difficult hobby, expensive and frustrating but very rewarding when it comes together. I had two very difficult years plagued with problems and pests but I'm on top of it at the moment, things are looking good and it's all worthwhile.


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## BigTom (3 Apr 2015)

Colinlp said:


> What have you got set up so far? What filtration method are you adopting?
> 
> It's a difficult hobby, expensive and frustrating but very rewarding when it comes together. I had two very difficult years plagued with problems and pests but I'm on top of it at the moment, things are looking good and it's all worthwhile.



Its a ~40cm AIO cube (40x42x30 when you discount the back section). About 60l realistic water volume... just got the water, salt, heater, return pump and powerhead in there at the moment. Pet rocks are going in today. Flow is a little low at about 25x turnover but will probably add a second powerhead soon. Lighting is not extreme - Cherry Aqua iNano. Planning on a lagoon style scape with Caulerpa, buttons and mushrooms probably, and eventually a pair of blue stripe pipefish. It's mainly just to teach myself the basics of reefkeeping so I'm less useless on the marine section when working in my LFS.

Hoping to get away without a skimmer... going to have lots of live rock rubble, chaeto and floss in the back and just do very regular water changes which isn't too inconvenient given how easily I can get RO and the small volumes involved.


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## Colinlp (3 Apr 2015)

25x turnover is fine for softies and LPS, you only need more when you have SPS. Skimmers aren't essential by any means, just need to keep on top of water changes to keep organics down. Testing is the main thing, keep on top of your water parameters and everything else will generally take care of itself, nitrate at about 1ppm and phosphate at about 0.03ppm or less is ideal. Once you get in the swing of it you can guess reasonably accurately your phosphate levels by the daily build up of algae on the glass, controlling phosphate at 0.03 is the main issue. With softies you'll not need to supplement the water at all, water changes will keep it up to par. 

I personally wouldn't have Caulerpa anywhere near my tank, I had it go sexual on me once and it wasn't pretty, nearly took my tank out overnight, I do use Chaeto and miracle mud in my sump lit 24/7


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## BigTom (3 Apr 2015)

Thanks Colin. I have heard a few horror stories about Caulerpa but I do really like the look of it, and it'd fit the sort of habitat I'm aiming for. Still plenty of time to do some reading and wimp out, haha.

10kg of pet rocks just went in, still need some more rubble for the back.


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## Colinlp (3 Apr 2015)

That's just screaming "Mantis shrimp!!"

Nice scape, not tempted by an orange and a green digi Montipora? Look ace in there top left and right with some Zoas bottom left. Could be easy with such a low bio load


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## kirk (3 Apr 2015)

Mantis shrimp? Arnt those the ones that could smash through tank glass?  I've never ventured into marines very interesting though.


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## Colinlp (3 Apr 2015)

There are different types of Mantis, some have clubs that potentially could smash the glass when they get very big (never actually heard of it happening) and some with a spear tip that wont. Peacock Mantis are prized possessions to many reef keepers


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## kirk (3 Apr 2015)

They are beautiful creatures Colin, I remember seeing a bigger one with the clubs on deadly 60 watching it with our boys. Where they were showing the power they have. Awsome.  along with cuttle fish my favorite.


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## dan4x4 (4 Apr 2015)

Don't know any reef sites but would love to be updated. I would like to set up a nano reef tank say 50 litres or similar. I don't really have much of an idea though. I have watched a few videos on youtube.

I love the soft coral but I've heard its a very expensive hobby, this and my lack of knowledge has put me off so far. It would be great if you made a thread of your progress, with different equipment etc, how much it costs, what it does and why.

Anyways, have fun


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## GlassWalker (4 Apr 2015)

On salty sites, I'm most active on ultimatereef but it is one of those sites that are a bit too big for their own good. It is easy to get lost in the noise there so don't be surprised if you don't get a reply. I also joined saltybox more recently but am not active enough there to form an opinion.

I've got an infestation of Caulerpa (suspected racemosa) in one tank, and it has got a foothold in a 2nd. Grows pretty fast and not fussy about light. Not had it go sexual yet and must have had it many months. To best of my understanding that is a last ditch attempt at it surviving when conditions really don't suit it. So it would seem I have the right conditions for algae... caulerpa taxifolia is very popular with seahorse keepers so that might be a more interesting one to go for.

Oh, on the nitrates/phosphate thing, that should be fun for later. Conventional marine wisdom is you want them low, but there is a small but growing group saying it doesn't matter. I have long wondered if there are echos of ideas I first heard about here that might apply in this scenario.


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## Colinlp (4 Apr 2015)

It needn't be an expensive hobby but invariably it does. All you really need is a tank, light. flow pumps, heater, live rock and salt water (which is free if you live by the sea). But! Ideally you would add a skimmer (a thing that generates bubbles that collect organics and removes them from the tank), a sump is handy to keep stuff in, skimmer, heaters, carbon and phosphate reactors, miracle mud/deep sand beds etc. If you keep stony corals you will need to supplement your calcium/magnesium and Kh either by dosing or with a calcium reactor, lighting needs to be good then too, flow needs to be better. Still if you stay with the cheaper kit that's recently come on the market such as Jeabao and Evergrow rather than Ecotech and Dastaco etc you can keep costs down to the barely affordable.


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## Colinlp (4 Apr 2015)

GlassWalker said:


> On salty sites, I'm most active on ultimatereef but it is one of those sites that are a bit too big for their own good. It is easy to get lost in the noise there so don't be surprised if you don't get a reply. I also joined saltybox more recently but am not active enough there to form an opinion.


Agreed, I've given up with the place personally, too busy and I find the moderation sometimes can be a bit harsh, but then rules are rules and they are written down (somewhere!)



GlassWalker said:


> I've got an infestation of Caulerpa (suspected racemosa) in one tank, and it has got a foothold in a 2nd. Grows pretty fast and not fussy about light. Not had it go sexual yet and must have had it many months. To best of my understanding that is a last ditch attempt at it surviving when conditions really don't suit it. So it would seem I have the right conditions for algae... caulerpa taxifolia is very popular with seahorse keepers so that might be a more interesting one to go for.


 Not sure why mine went, it was in the sump over mud, lit 24/7 with a 125W CFL. Was getting regular WC with NSW and was great for months and then one morning I woke up to a tank full of milk



GlassWalker said:


> Oh, on the nitrates/phosphate thing, that should be fun for later. Conventional marine wisdom is you want them low, but there is a small but growing group saying it doesn't matter. I have long wondered if there are echos of ideas I first heard about here that might apply in this scenario.


A mate of mine has had good results with sky high nitrates and phosphates 5+ but then he got a Bryopsis outbreak that went mad


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## dan4x4 (4 Apr 2015)

Colinlp said:


> It needn't be an expensive hobby but invariably it does. All you really need is a tank, light. flow pumps, heater, live rock and salt water (which is free if you live by the sea). But! Ideally you would add a skimmer (a thing that generates bubbles that collect organics and removes them from the tank), a sump is handy to keep stuff in, skimmer, heaters, carbon and phosphate reactors, miracle mud/deep sand beds etc. If you keep stony corals you will need to supplement your calcium/magnesium and Kh either by dosing or with a calcium reactor, lighting needs to be good then too, flow needs to be better. Still if you stay with the cheaper kit that's recently come on the market such as Jeabao and Evergrow rather than Ecotech and Dastaco etc you can keep costs down to the barely affordable.



Yes I understand that carbon & phosphates are bad in the salty aquarium. I have so many questions, do you know any good youtube channels to check out?


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## Colinlp (4 Apr 2015)

dan4x4 said:


> Yes I understand that carbon & phosphates are bad in the salty aquarium. I have so many questions, do you know any good youtube channels to check out?


This one if from a mate of mine who until recently had the best tank I have ever seen. It ran on miracle mud and was low maintenance, worth a look
https://www.youtube.com/user/Clearwater2011/videos


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## BigTom (4 Apr 2015)

Yeah I've been trying to do stuff relatively cheaply, re-use old equipment where possible and get staff discount on a lot of stuff and I've still probably spent £200 so far (10kg of live rock was a bit wedge of that). I could have saved about 50 quid by buying used LR and using NSW I guess. The only way to do it cheaper really is to pick up cheap rock locally from ebay/gumtree/fb/forums. Or use non-LR and run an external filter I guess.


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## Colinlp (5 Apr 2015)

Second hand rock can be a disaster, people usually give up when things go wrong, aips, flatworm, algae of some sort. Phosphates are usually bound up in the rock and can cause problems later, at least fresh live rock is relatively low. The other way is to buy reef bones, bleach and then soak with lanthanum chloride or similar to strip out phosphates then just cycle the tank as you would freshwater, it just takes an age


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## BigTom (5 Apr 2015)

First life! Unfortunately, I think it might be Aiptasia? Kill it with fire?


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## GlassWalker (5 Apr 2015)

Can't be 100% from that photo but could be an aip. Not sure I've seen any with a spotty pattern though. I've had good success with aip-x but the key to success there is to follow the instructions carefully. If you mess up killing it, they're said to send out spores and you get baby ones appearing elsewhere shortly. To be extra safe, try killing it out of tank.

As for running marine tanks, there are some bargains out there if you look at the right time. Sometimes people just want rid of an existing setup fast, in one go, and they go for far less than the already lower cost of buying privately than from a store. Once set up I don't think running costs at all bad. For most things, spending more just makes it easier but isn't always a necessity. Oh, forgot to say earlier, keep up with water top up from evaporation. This is particularly important in smaller tanks. I was running a 10L quarantine/treatment tank and got distracted for a week. It had lost 1 or 2L water with corresponding increase in salinity, which thankfully the coral survived but was clearly not happy about. For this reason an auto-top up system is very useful.


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## BigTom (5 Apr 2015)

I blowtorched them to be on the safe side. At that small size (5mm long) I'm hopeful of getting pretty much all of them.


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## Iain Sutherland (5 Apr 2015)

little salty nanos are great fun tom, im sure youll get loads of enjoyment from it.  I ran my 50lt for over a year with very little effort, even managed sps.  High grade salt, i used bio-actif, seemed to make a dramatic difference.
Keep us updated fella


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## GlassWalker (5 Apr 2015)

Speaking of aips, I just found a massive one on the back of a rock in a tank I thought was free, but had some in past. Guess what my next job is?


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## BigTom (5 Apr 2015)

Have put up a journal on TSB for those interested - http://www.thesaltybox.com/forum/nano-tanks-11-30gal/157603-toms-box-rocks.html


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## Colinlp (5 Apr 2015)

Aips are a pain, I had so many just over a year ago it wasn't true, how there was any space left over for the flatworm infestation I have no idea! Tried peps, aip X, Joe's juice, a file fish did the job in the end and some wrasse did for the flatworm. Still there of course but kept under strict supervision thankfully


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## ukjay (5 Apr 2015)

For Aips, if you have some Kalkwasser Powder - you can mix a strong solution (about 3 tablespoons to about 100 ml of water), then inject some of this into the Aips mouth (middle of the disk shaped head - possibly resembling a slot rather than a round opening), and it will withdraw and take the Kalk mix in with it and kill the Aip if done correctly. Just do not do too many in any 24hrs as you will affect your water parameters.

Also - do not drop this solution on any corals if you have any as it will burn them. It is also
best to turn pumps off for a short time whilst doing this for best results.

Jay


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## mr. luke (5 Apr 2015)

I dont know a lot about marines but my local salty shop owner has aips in his display tank which are huuuuuge. Id say 15cm from the foot to the tip (technical i know) which he doesnt try and remove. He only gets rid if they venture close to his other corals. Not reccomending it but whats others view on this?


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## Colinlp (6 Apr 2015)

A bit like BBA I think, don't do any real harm but do you really want them/it?


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## dan4x4 (7 Apr 2015)

Wow that looks way more beautiful than BBA to be fair though!


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## Colinlp (8 Apr 2015)

In a Jurasic sort of way? I know which I would prefer given the choice of colourful acropora or brown aiptasia


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## Martin in Holland (8 Apr 2015)

I like the placing of those rocks. What are you planning to get?....soft corals or others?


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## BigTom (8 Apr 2015)

Martin in China said:


> I like the placing of those rocks. What are you planning to get?....soft corals or others?



Yeah probably softies and montipora. I also really like ricordea and chalice corals, but they're a touch trickier and $$$. I want to try and be a bit restrained and stick to 2-3 types, rather than have 'one of everything' like a lot of reefers seem to do. Fauna wise, probably smaller inverts such as boxer crabs and sexy shrimp and eventually a pair of blue-stripe pipefish once everything is nice and mature. Nothing is set in stone yet really.


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## Martin in Holland (9 Apr 2015)

BigTom said:


> I want to try and be a bit restrained and stick to 2-3 types, rather than have 'one of everything' like a lot of reefers seem to do


I'm going to try to restrain myself too, but it's going to be difficult with all that nice candy in the shops here.


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## Crossocheilus (9 Apr 2015)

Hi Tom,
That rock arrangement is very nice especially that outcrop. Good luck with the aiptasia, they sound like a nightmare. 
Could you do an equipment list so that people could see the cost and hardware involved in a nano reef? 
I would like give one a go someday, if my budget and time can cope


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## Martin in Holland (9 Apr 2015)

BigTom said:


> Unfortunately, I think it might be Aiptasia? Kill it with fire?


I've seen a YouTube movie about killing it with a laser and others just put some putty over it.


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## Katch (14 Apr 2015)

BigTom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've just started a little foray into the salty side and wondered if anyone had a recommendation for a reef forum to poke my nose into? Preferably with some of the same sort of knowledgeable and progressive folk that we have on here!
> 
> ...



I used to spend a lot of time over at ultimate reef when I was going through my salty phase - http://www.ultimatereef.net/

probably the most comprehensive resource around.


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## Katch (14 Apr 2015)

BigTom said:


> First life! Unfortunately, I think it might be Aiptasia? Kill it with fire?



Yup Aip - hot soldering iron for about 30 secs


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