# I made a substrate from hell, i want to change it



## eminor (7 Oct 2022)

Hello, I have an old aquarium that has a layer of aquatic soil composed of peat and clay and 23% organic matter all covered with fluval stratum, I must admit that it is a real hell to manage. If I have a plant to move, I have to change the water if I don't want to have an ammonia peak.

So I want to redo everything, I have the idea to put osmocote balls on the bottom glass and cover it with  7-8 cm of pool filtration sand, is it a good solution knowing that this tank will receive difficult plants (walichii, tuberculatum, etc)?

I will of course use liquid fertilizer, I found a filtration sand of 0.6mm to 1.6mm is it a good granulometry? thx


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## CMooner (8 Oct 2022)

Just know that the OC balls will come to the surface when uprooting as well. It's not the end though, just re-insert them back into the substrate when planting is complete.


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## erwin123 (8 Oct 2022)

Does pool filtration sand absorb the NH4+ that is released from the osmocote or does it end up in the water column?
Do you plan to replenish the entire osmocote layer after it is depleted in 3 months?
Haven't seen any recent photos of your tuberculatum, are they doing ok?

Why not just follow the ADA Aquasoil method.... i think its pretty reliable way to get good results with aquatic plants


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## eminor (8 Oct 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Does pool filtration sand absorb the NH4+ that is released from the osmocote or does it end up in the water column?


i doubt it, cec is really low, inert, so it will release some i think, but that tank will be covered with rotala, i doubt it will cause a problem for them


erwin123 said:


> Do you plan to replenish the entire osmocote layer after it is depleted in 3 months?



first i'll add a bottom layer of osmocote, how much i don't know but not a lot, then i'll put some osmocote time to time


erwin123 said:


> Haven't seen any recent photos of your tuberculatum, are they doing ok?


Tuberculatum is dead, but i think i can grow it if i manage to find it somewhere


erwin123 said:


> Why not just follow the ADA Aquasoil method.... i think its pretty reliable way to get good results with aquatic plants


i'll need 10 bags of aquasoil which will cost too much, price of energy rising up, can't put so much in a tank, sand filter pool will cost me 1/20 of the price


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## goldscapes (8 Oct 2022)

eminor said:


> i'll need 10 bags of aquasoil


Have you considered a method like MDFishtanks uses? He uses mesh filter bags half filled with aquasoil and placed them where they are going to be needed by the plants. He sometimes adds larger grade gravel to build up height. Then tops everything with sand.
This means overall less aquasoil is required and it stops it from “floating” above the sand over time.
This might not work so well in a fully planted  layout with minimal hardscape but for typical nature/jungle style layouts he seems to use it to good effect. You need to consider that his content is sponsored and you might not agree with everything he advocates but he does share some useful money savings tips.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (8 Oct 2022)

This is what I do with actual soil, I substituted Tim Harrison’s soil retainer for the mesh bags instead. Easier to remove the bags then to have to scoop out the dirt on a rescape. You could do something similar with the oscmocote, get a fine mesh or netting to place over the osmocote you put down. The balls will never reach the surface if they can be kept down.


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## eminor (8 Oct 2022)

Thanks guys, that's good ideas, must be honest thought, i might be the only one but i hate working with aquasoil, i had stratum, amazonia, etc. I really love sand better,  i don't know if i'll be able to grow difficult one in there, i'll add osmocote with micro,  i know there is nothing better than sand to cap, so i'm not afraid in that side. That tank will be covered with rotala rotundifolia sp, few walichii, reineckii, carpet plant, and the devil tuberculatum, no hardscape


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## eminor (8 Oct 2022)

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> This is what I do with actual soil, I substituted Tim Harrison’s soil retainer for the mesh bags instead. Easier to remove the bags then to have to scoop out the dirt on a rescape. You could do something similar with the oscmocote, get a fine mesh or netting to place over the osmocote you put down. The balls will never reach the surface if they can be kept down.



that's a good idea for the osmocote, thx


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## eminor (10 Oct 2022)

I think i f*cked up everything lol

so i used osmocote in the bottom glass, maybe too much, day one water surface was really clean, day two, there is a surface foam, i don't know if it's osmocote, they are burried deep, under fine sand (0.6 / 1.6 mm). i rinced the filter pool sand a lot water is crystal clear

My plant had cladophora in my other tank, i used hyrogen peroxide, well my plant are in a really bad shape, staghorn are dying, cladophora is turning white, there is hope, i see new leaves from some stem...

Looks at that foam, i do'nt really know what is it, the canister filter i used in the previous tank was cycled, i turned it of for maybe 3.5/4 hours, does the cycle need to be done again ?





look on the botom, the white osmocote is at least 7cm deep (3 inches)




the rotala had a hard time with hydrogen peroxide, they were so beautifull, but i love them to much to let clado stay around, you can see new leaves on the stem, maybe rotala won't die




the reineckii mini is near death, at this point i barely recognize her, might be pedicillata golden...


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## Hufsa (10 Oct 2022)

😬


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## plantnoobdude (10 Oct 2022)

I have a special hate for osmocote/root tabs😅


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## Wookii (10 Oct 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> I have a special hate for osmocote/root tabs😅


 Me too - though mine where in their 'Tropica' form!


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## dw1305 (10 Oct 2022)

Hi all,


plantnoobdude said:


> I have a special hate for osmocote/root tabs


I wouldn't go that far, but the problem with all the <"Controlled Release Fertilisers"> is that they can become <"Uncontrolled Release Fertilisers">.  @erwin123 's graphs in <"Osmocote plus disaster"> illustrates what I worry about.

It is the potential and kinetic energy analogy from this <"ammonia / ammonium thread">.


dw1305 said:


> Some aquarists will argue that you can ignore NH4+, because it isn't toxic, but I look at a bit like the relationship between kinetic (~ NH3) and potential energy (~NH4+) when you have a large mass on an inclined plane. It might not be a problem, but if the mass starts moving it is going to make a hell of a mess. Same with free ammonia (NH3), if you end up with a lot of it, it is going to be total "wipe-out".


I use a <"risk management approach">, where you attempt to limit <"known unknowns">, (there is not much you can do about "_unknown unknowns_").

cheers Darrel


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## eminor (10 Oct 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> I have a special hate for osmocote/root tabs😅


weird thing is that the osmocote i use have only 1% ammonia in it, so far no algae, co2 is maxed out

will see how it goes, tds is pretty consistant, i don't see how osmocote can reach the water column


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## erwin123 (10 Oct 2022)

eminor said:


> I think i f*cked up everything lol
> 
> so i used osmocote in the bottom glass, *maybe too much*, day one water surface was really clean, day two, there is a surface foam, i don't know if it's osmocote, they are burried deep, under fine sand (0.6 / 1.6 mm). i rinced the filter pool sand a lot water is crystal clear











						Osmocote plus disaster
					

Sure, there's always room for difference of opinion.  Vin in his presentation said that for his Rotala Kill Tank, he had his water column nitrate level tested by some university friend with expensive equipment and it was 0 nitrates?  yes I read that too, but so far I have seen people added these...



					www.ukaps.org
				




I don't understand this. You recently asked for the Osmocote instructions in the 2hr aquarist webpage that was taken down. I summarised it for you: *1 pellet per square inch 

Hanuman provided you the link to the webarchive which also says 1 pellet per square inch just in case you didn't believe me:* How to use osmocote for substrate in planted aquarium

So just how many pellets per square inch did you add? Any reasons why you didn't follow the instructions provided?


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## eminor (10 Oct 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Osmocote plus disaster
> 
> 
> Sure, there's always room for difference of opinion.  Vin in his presentation said that for his Rotala Kill Tank, he had his water column nitrate level tested by some university friend with expensive equipment and it was 0 nitrates?  yes I read that too, but so far I have seen people added these...
> ...



that's what i did, and that's why i find it weird that osmocote would be the issue there, maybe that was still too much, the ammonia will eventually fade away, i have a cycled canister filter i think it can deal with the ammonia, at least i hope. Otherwise it will be better in a month or two according to the graphs i've seen here


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