# Getting the best Co2 circulation in a Trigon 190



## Richardod (15 Nov 2017)

Can anyone give a complete Co2 novice any ideas on how to improve Co2 circulation in a Trigon 190 ?
I have taken the internal filter out and am using an external cristalprofi e1501.
The water is returned into the aquarium at the rear pointing straight forward using the wide jet hose rather than the spray bar.
The diffuser is at the front  (can be seen in the picture.) the tank has been planted a week , the drop checker seems the right colour and most of the plants seem ok  apart from the carpet plant ( montecarlo) at the front which appear to be turning a greyish colour I am not expecting them  to last much longer unless I can change things and get some advice.

I dose 25ml of this every day , the lighting is controlled by a Juwel lighting unit ( helialux LED ) I can post the reigeme if required and substrate is Tropica soil.

I changed 60% of the water twice in the first week and plan to change 50% twice a week for the next three weeks.

I am not planning on adding any fish until everything is stable

I was thinking of maybe switching to the spraybar for water return and buying a circulation pump but not sure where in the tank to place the pump.

Any advice on how to improve my current set up would be greatly appreciated.


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## ceg4048 (15 Nov 2017)

Richardod said:


> Can anyone give a complete Co2 novice any ideas on how to improve Co2 circulation in a Trigon 190 ?




Hi,
   The first thing I would suggest is to move the CO2 diffuser to just under the filter inlet and allow the filter to swallow the gas and to be your CO2 diffuser.

If the output of the filter is pointing straight at the front glass then that is a good start. I cannot see clearly where the outlet is but it should be higher up rather than lower down.

Melting plants is a sure fire sign that CO2/flow distribution is poor.

Also, is this is a nearly 200L tank you will need to optimize the injection rate. You are wise to not put fish in until the issues have been resolved.

I would also reduce the light intensity. I do not know the PAR data for that unit but it is probably too high for young and newly submerged plants.

I also suggest you take pH readings every 30 minutes from gas on to lights off and report your findings. As usual, we are looking for a 1 pH unit drop from gas on to lights on and then we want to see the pH stabilize for the rest of the photoperiod. That is the key measurement in dicating the effectiveness of your CO2 technique.

Additionally, if you have your filter cannister filled to the brim with sintered glassceramic media then this is a mistake and you will achive much better flow by reducing the amount of media by at least half.

In a triangle tank it is very difficult to arrange your devices so as to obtain good flow but try these idea out first and see if there is any improvement.
Your auxiliary pumps should face as close as possible to the same direction as your filter output (straight, as much as you can towards the front glass).

Cheers,


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## Richardod (15 Nov 2017)

Great stuff Ceg.
Thanks a million.
I only have one layer of ceramics in the filter the rest is sponge
I will set the inlet jet hose to just under surface of water.
I will get time the weekend to take the PH readings as suggested.


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## Vandal Gardener (16 Nov 2017)

Richard,

Apologies I've just seen your thread, I love your arrangement think it'll look tip top when grown in a bit.

Can't really offer anything better than has been offered already but keeping an eye out.  

I have two filters (Juwel internal and eheim external), the external is hooked up to a spraybar running the length of the one of the straight edges and the internal facing along the opposite side.  I found that when I tried to pump straight through the middle I was getting algae build up on the sides (which I believe was as a result of a couple of things - lack of flow, too much light, build up of organics on the "dead" spots, along with some direct afternoon sun hitting the tank.  So I ran the spray bar a couple of inches below the water surface the surface (pointing one straight edge to the other) with the internal facing the front right (if you're facing with eheim on front left).

Och cross that bridge when you come to it 

Here's the co2 thing I use - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12mm-16m...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I've not had one before but works a treat and a bit better than parting with the best part of £30 for a branded one

All the best


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## Richardod (8 Dec 2017)

Ok so about a month in everything seems to be going ok.
Ceg I did as you suggested and moved the Co2 diffuser directly below the filter inlet,I get  a few burps from the filter but nothing too much .
The plants have been growing like crazy I have had to trimmed them up.
Monte carlo never really recovered,I am going to replant some more but make sure I get it in a pot this time with wool , unlike my initial  batch that came with a sort of jelly.
The PH is relatively stable 7.2, before lights on , i measure again after the lights are fully on ( i use a helialux unit)  and it has dropped to 6.3 which stays relatively stable while lights are fully on.
Drop checker is a bit strange I don't get a deep lime green more a very weak watery green.

The only issue i an having is there is a sort of green slime and floss on the redmoor wood.( see pictures)  I have no algae on any of the plants or glass.
Does anyone have any idea what is on the wood and how to get rid of it.
Thanks for your advice Ceg.


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## mow said (8 Dec 2017)

add some amano shrimp they will eat that away if not remove it or you can leave it it will go away by itself.


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## ceg4048 (9 Dec 2017)

Richardod said:


> Drop checker is a bit strange I don't get a deep lime green more a very weak watery green.


Hi Richard,

I wouldn't worry too much about the color of the DC. Pale green is fine and may be a transitional color to yellow. More important is the fact that you are getting a nearly 1 ph unit drop and the fact that the plants are responding positively.



Richardod said:


> The only issue i an having is there is a sort of green slime and floss on the redmoor wood.( see pictures) I have no algae on any of the plants or glass.


If that was newly purchased wood when you assembled the hardscape then it is a type of fungus, so when you do the water change you can just wipe it off with a scrubbie. This is typical of newly submerged wood.

A shame about the Monte Carlo, but they were too far gone I reckon.

OK, I'm unsure about this statement:


Richardod said:


> The PH is relatively stable 7.2, before lights on , i measure again after the lights are fully on ( i use a helialux unit) and it has dropped to 6.3 which stays relatively stable while lights are fully on.


Do you mean to say that it is 7.2 before Gas On?
The sequence should be Gas On, then wait until the pH drops by about 1 unit and then lights On.
It sounds like you are ramping up the light from dim to high but it's unclear what your sequence is and what the pH readings are every 1/2 hour from gas On to Lights Off.
it would be good to record the sequence at the time intervals because it's something that you will have to check regularly.

Cheers,


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## Richardod (9 Dec 2017)

Sorry Ceg, of course 7.2 before gas on .

Ive been waiting for lights fully on before checking the PH again rather when they come on initially

I only really get the chance at weekends to check the PH from gas on to lights on as I'm at work 

Tomorrow I will check from before to Gas on until lights initially come on ( which is a three hour gap )

Thanks again for your advice.


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## ceg4048 (11 Dec 2017)

OK, no probems.

What I try to encourage folks to do is to make this pH profile part of their regular procedure. In fact this is one of the few methods we have of CO2 veriification. The DC is too slow to provide the right clue. When plants suffer a CO2 shortfall, i.e, melting or algae, then this is the way in which we determine the behavior of the gas. It's fine if you have to wait for a chance for a comprehensive set of measurements.

I suggest for example that you record in your computer on a spreadsheet for future reference. The data should look something like this:
0900  pH=7.2   Gas On
0930  pH=7.0
1000  pH=6.8
1030  pH=6.4
1100  pH=6.2   Lights On   Power = 20%
1130  pH=6.1   Lights        Power = 30%
1200  pH=6.1   Lights        Power = 40%  Fish behavior normal
1230  pH=6.2   Lights        Power = 50%
1330  pH=6.3   Lights        Power = 60%
1430  pH= 6.3  Lights        Power = 60%
1530  pH=6.3   Lights        Power = 40%
1630  pH=6.4   Gas Off     Lights   Power = 30%
1730  pH=6.5   Lights        Power= 30%
1830  pH=6.6   Lights        Power = 20%
1930  pH=6.6   Lights Off

This is just a sample ideal scenario. Its the type of gas behavior we would like to see, but each tank and lighting scheme is different. The most important thing is to record or to remember how the pH and sequence of events unfold so that you have a reference for when things go awry.

What this typical profile shows, for example is that we are able to saturate the water to it it's maximum CO2 value within approximately 2 hours without diving too far below. Then we observe the fish at the minimum pH to ensure that they are not to uncomfortable. as the photoperiod continues we see that the pH rises as the plants consume CO2. You can also annotate if pearling occurs and any other relevant information. Naturally, the gas dissipates overnight so that by Gas on the next morning there is only residual amounts remaining.

This data gives you a really good picture of what is going on and if you observe any anomalies in future, you can reference the original profile and compare it with the measurements that you see on that day.
Remember though, it not the actual pH value itself, but the DIFFERENCE between the Gas On pH and the pH at a particular moment of interest that tells the story, because the difference is what determine the amount of CO2 that got dissolved. The Gas On pH is therefore Uber-Important because it is the Index. This value can and does change as conditions in the tank change.

Also, if you change your distribution technique, or if you move a pump outlet to another location, or if you change the bubble rate, or even the lighting profile, then redo the pH profile and it will reveal to you the effectiveness of that change. Sometimes we THINK that a specific change is an improvement, when actually it makes things worse, and that is often reflected in the profile data.

Anyway, there are a lot of nuances so definitely, when you have the time then records as much data as you can.

Cheers,


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