# Just started with C02, bubble counter problem & question



## W1368 (14 Jan 2011)

I've just started using a JBL C02 kit for the past few days and have come across a problem with either the bubble counter filling completely with water or completely emptying.

An extra stop valve has been bought, and both are working fine when I blow through them in one direction. I have a stop valve between the soloided electric valve and the bubble counter, the other is between the bubble counter and reactor.

I understand this doesn't really effect the injection of C02 but I'm worried this water could siophon back into the canister, even though two stop valves are being used. There doesn't appear to be any leaks.

Oh, and a quick question on mesuring the C02, I've used 4dkh water within the drop checker and is displaying a lime green. Although when I compare with liquid checks and a chart (6.5ph, 4kh) its showing too much C02 is being injected. Is it still safe to rely on the drop checker only even though the comparison chart is showing too much?


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## RudeDogg1 (14 Jan 2011)

i binned my jbl bubble counter as it was not airtight and leaked co2 out id of thought if the preasure is right there should be no back wash. Ive also just replaced the jbl non return for a brass one as it leaked and let water syphon back.

If the drop checker is lime green then its perfect at 30 ppm or just under. Testing the other way can be abit vague


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## Coiln3107 (14 Jan 2011)

Hi any chance you can post a breakdown of the co2 circuit and how you have set it up. The stop valve you are talking about I suggest are non-return valves which is good and necessary. I suggest you only need one and the problem of the bubble counter emptying could be down to excessive pressure blowing the water out. It may just be down to balancing pressure but a diagram or circuit would help. Do you have a needle valve? As far as the drop checker, yes I would believe it for sure if you are using 4dkh water with indicator solution. Lime green sounds a bit too high on the co2 front. How are the critters, and gasping or signs of distress?


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## RudeDogg1 (14 Jan 2011)

lime green is ment to be the correct co2 colour yellow is to high


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## Coiln3107 (15 Jan 2011)

Rudedogg, as the poster W1368 is new to CO2 as stated in there post I simply suggested that lime green is at the top end of the safe scale of CO2. That is why I asked if the inhabitants were ok! If W1368 is just set out on the CO2 route I am sure the inhabitants could do with not being taken to the upper thresholds of happiness in the first few days!! The other thing was to try and assess the problem of the amount of gas going in.If they are already on the limit as YOU state they are there is now very little margin for error? As stated in the post they feel they already have a problem, so a bigger one could be on the way if the initial setup is not sorted out? My reply was to try and work out what that problem may be, not as you did to talk about what you binned! Does that suggest everyone should bin there's as well


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## RudeDogg1 (15 Jan 2011)

wasnt sugesting that i was just stating that the quality of sertain parts are not great. This is a forum after all and everyone is entitled tho their opinion no matrter what you think lol. For the record I wasnt telling anyone to do anything sheeesh


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## W1368 (15 Jan 2011)

Thanks for the quick responses. Checked early this morning and the checker is now yellow and the majority of fish are gasping.

When I posted yesterday I noticed one of the raindow fish were gasping in a lower corner of the tank without moving, although I though that they gasp near the surface.

I've turned the lights on early without injection and will check in the next few hours. Oh, a needle valve is inlcuded, I've also lowered this a little.

The bubble counter has remained full of water for the past 2-3days.

The setup is based on the JBL pro flora u401 set, with an extra non-return valve and night switch purchesed sepertly:

Dispossable cylinder > JBL m001 pressure regulator (left gauge showing 55 bar, right showing 1.7 bar) > JBL night switch / solonoid valve > JBL non-return valve > JBL bubble counter > another plasitic non-return valve, not JBL > JBL diffuser

Night switch is set at the same time as the lights, about 10 hours per day.


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## Coiln3107 (15 Jan 2011)

Hi W1368 it sounds as if you are getting there. It might be worth taking the second non-return valve out as one is usually all we use. The easier the flow the less pressure you have to use and the less chance of blowing the bubble counter empty, although 1.7 bar sounds ok. The fish gasping is not good and the tweek on the needle will hopefully help. One of the problems with a forum is all words no sight. Seeing the precise colour of green/yellow is something different peoples eyes can deal with in different ways. But the fish never lie! I think you want to get the gas on before the lights, my understanding from my readings of the forum is gas on before lights so that the drop checker is green before lights on. Maybe Clive or one of the other moderators will fine tune my answer but this is my understanding. Also lights and gas for 10 hours sounds too much, maybe more like 7 or 8 depending on how much light your tank gets from natural daylight, you may find algea a problem with a long light period. Hope this helps regards Colin.


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## ceg4048 (15 Jan 2011)

Hi,
    I agree with Colin's assessment that the OP should forget about whether the bubble counter gets flooded when the gas is turned off. If a serviceable check valve is installed as  described downstream of the solenoid then there is no way water can flood the solenoid or regulator. 

What is odd though is that the OP states that there is a second check valve downstream of the bubble counter, therefore the counter should not flood. This sounds like that check valve is inoperative. Try swapping the two check valve positions to see if that valve is inoperative.

As Colin noted, the OP should start at the lower end of the bubble rate and work his/her way up as discussed in the Dropchecker tutorial==> CO2 MEASUREMENT USING A DROP CHECKER . This is the only safe way to arrive at the correct injection rate and to safeguard fish health.

Cheers,


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## RudeDogg1 (15 Jan 2011)

+1


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## W1368 (2 Feb 2011)

Just like RudeDogg1's other post, I'm another one seriously effed off now.

Got back to this issue about a week ago, as the gasping fish were from ammonia poisening.

After re-checking all the connections, the C02 did not reach the diffuser in the tank unless there was a high pressure, which meant way to much CO2. I'm sure everything was connected correctly as it was possible to blow air through the tube before the bubble counter and non-return valve.

No matter what I do, the bubble counter will always fill with water when the CO2 supply is off. Soon as turning off the CO2 I can see the water going up the plastic tube within the bubble counter (CO2 outlet), came back 30mins later to find AQUARIAM WATER ALL OVER MY FLOOR!!!! and the bubble counter was filled up with water again, this time leaking from around the seal.

Also peed off that it appears the CO2 in my canister is showing a pressure of 25, so I guess thats run out now a lot quicker than expected.

Right now I've disconnected everything and unsure where to go from here.

I chose this as I was cluless over CO2, I feel I have been completely ripped off.


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## Radik (2 Feb 2011)

I am not expert but try to install check valve before and after bubble counter. I have it only after as it should be and no issues. Or try better brass check valve than plastic crap.


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