# Can tea be used to add tannins and colour to tank?



## Robbie X (16 Nov 2021)

Hi all.
I recently watched a YouTube vid were a chap was using tea in a hang on tea infuser to add tannins and colour to his blackwater tank.
Is this a legitimate method?
I know that botanicals and certain types of wood leach tannins and I’m curious what other methods I could use when setting up a blackwater tank?
Cheers


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## tam (16 Nov 2021)

Yes, but I don't think tetley - it has to be specific types. Tea is just chopped up botanicals after all


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## MichaelJ (16 Nov 2021)

Robbie X said:


> Hi all.
> I recently watched a YouTube vid were a chap was using tea in a hang on tea infuser to add tannins and colour to his blackwater tank.
> Is this a legitimate method?
> I know that botanicals and certain types of wood leach tannins and I’m curious what other methods I could use when setting up a blackwater tank?
> Cheers



You probably can, but I wouldn't... there is a lot of caffeine in tea among other things. I would just boil a bunch of almond leaves and use that water  (Don't drink it as tea   ).


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## Robbie X (16 Nov 2021)

tam said:


> Yes, but I don't think tetley - it has to be specific types. Tea is just chopped up botanicals after all


Many thanks. 
Very interesting, I wonder what type of tea would be best? Organic tea maybe?


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## Angus (16 Nov 2021)

It's food safe, the only things i can find on it is caffeine changing some biomechanisms in fish... but the study said it did not induce oxidative stress after 168 hours...








						Evaluation of caffeine effects on biochemical and genotoxic biomarkers in the neotropical freshwater teleost Prochilodus lineatus - PubMed
					

Caffeine is often found in aquatic environments, leading to concerns regarding its adverse consequences for aquatic biota. Biochemical and genotoxic biomarkers were analysed in juveniles of Prochilodus lineatus to evaluate the effects of caffeine. Fish were exposed to caffeine (0.3, 3 and 30 μg L …




					pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




I just use leaves and wood myself.


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## Onoma1 (16 Nov 2021)

Rachel O'Leary as a useful Video on how to use tea to stain tankwater. I would, however, go for a more natural approach using botanicals. The podcast and blog the Tint has lots of useful information on the additional benefits of this approach.


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## Robbie X (16 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> You probably can, but I wouldn't... there is a lot of caffeine in tea among other things. I would just boil a bunch of almond leaves and use that water  (Don't drink it as tea   ).


Would probably taste a bit bitter 😹
I have bought some almond leaves to use as decoration and to add tannins but did not consider boiling a load. They are quite expensive, how many would I need to boil for a 60L tank, and how long does the colour last?
Cheers


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## Angus (17 Nov 2021)

Robbie X said:


> Would probably taste a bit bitter 😹
> I have bought some almond leaves to use as decoration and to add tannins but did not consider boiling a load. They are quite expensive, how many would I need to boil for a 60L tank, and how long does the colour last?
> Cheers


Forage up a load of beech and oak leaves to make a brew, wash them, dry them, then boil em up into a dirty gravy, just make sure you are collecting responsibly and away from footpaths and such, not near trees marked with spraypainted dots in red and green because of pesticide spraying, surely some nice places to collect home grown stuff in and around south wales.


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## Robbie X (17 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> Forage up a load of beech and oak leaves to make a brew, wash them, dry them, then boil em up into a dirty gravy, just make sure you are collecting responsibly and away from footpaths and such, not near trees marked with spraypainted dots in red and green because of pesticide spraying, surely some nice places to collect home grown stuff in and around south wales.


Many thanks. I have a mixed woodland at the rear of my house that has plenty of oak, hazel, willow etc. I just never thought of boiling the leaves to extract the colour.


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## Angus (17 Nov 2021)

Decaf tea  Boiling bits of mopani wood is good for making tannin rich water too.


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## MichaelJ (17 Nov 2021)

Robbie X said:


> I have bought some almond leaves to use as decoration and to add tannins but did not consider boiling a load. They are quite expensive, how many would I need to boil for a 60L tank, and how long does the colour last?


Hi @Robbie X    I honestly don't know, but it certainly depends on how stained you want the water and how much/often you change water. I would think you could have a decent bag of almond leaves for quite a while.  Someone who are actually doing this will be able to say. You could also consider boiling peat moss. That may give you more bang for the bucks. Either way, I dont think it will break the bank for a 60L tank doing say 50% WC weekly and adding the extract from boiled almond leaves of peat moss to maintain the stained water.

Cheers,
Michael


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## aec34 (17 Nov 2021)

In my experience Indian almond/catappa darkens water much more readily than beech. I bought a very cheap unbranded bag  of catappa ages ago and just stick half a leaf in whenever - I do mostly now blanch them before hand. 
For proper oxtail soup brown, cut up a bit of small bit of bogwood and chuck it in. Here speaks the voice of accidentally having a v blackwater tank. And a sore arm. Bogwood is very hard.


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## AlecF (17 Nov 2021)

These suppliers have some really good looking tannins – someone shared them on a thread relating to food. I also use oak leaves and beech. TA-Aquaculture


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## Angus (17 Nov 2021)

AlecF said:


> These suppliers have some really good looking tannins – someone shared them on a thread relating to food. I also use oak leaves and beech. TA-Aquaculture


Still wondering how you actually order botanicals off that site... am i missing something? is it seasonal only?


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## AlecF (17 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> Still wondering how you actually order botanicals off that site... am i missing something? is it seasonal only?


I ordered some yesterday. Dried leaves store well so I don't see any seasonal issue. I've also ordered almond leaves off eBay. Leaves


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## Angus (17 Nov 2021)

AlecF said:


> I ordered some yesterday. Dried leaves store well so I don't see any seasonal issue. I've also ordered almond leaves off eBay. Leaves


i finally figured the site out haha! only took me 2 days.


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## AlecF (17 Nov 2021)

Their website does look a bit 'basic', but you soon get the hang of it, and they have some great stuff.


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## OllieTY (17 Nov 2021)

Alder cones are also highly effective at adding tint to the water. And this time of year, they're widely available! Alder trees are normally near water, so go take a walk by nearby rivers and streams and you'll more than likely find them. For reference, I normally can find more than enough to keep my 110l tank tinted for the whole year from a few trees. a small handful of cones, boiled for 10 mins in some RO water is normally enough to replenish a whole 30l water change.

EDIT: Rooibos tea bags are also used for this purpose.


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## zozo (17 Nov 2021)

If you search for a hobby shop in or Garden centre Dry Flower arrangement section and ask/look for natural untreated materials you can find all sorts of decorative dried seed pots and nutshells etc.






						Pods & Seeds | The Essentials Company
					

Pods & Seeds from The Essentials Company the specialist suppliers of labelling, tagging, tying, marking, and floristry sundries for business, home and garden applications.



					www.theessentialscompany.co.uk
				




I guess SEED PODS gets them from the same wholesalers but gets a tad exclusive on the prices...


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## mort (17 Nov 2021)

Alder cones are my go to for tannins as well. The trees near me have very small cones, so they don't stain the water much on their own making it easy to control and I simply chuck a cone in when it looks a bit clear.


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## dw1305 (17 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


mort said:


> Alder cones are my go to for tannins as well. The trees near me have very small cones, so they don't stain the water much on their own making it easy to control and I simply chuck a cone in when it looks a bit clear.


I do that as well. I add some leaves for <"structural leaf litter">, but for water colour Alder (_Alnus_ spp.) "cones" <"are non-problematic">.

I don't have any shrimps at the moment, but when I do I'm going to try feeding them fresh green Alder (_Alnus_ pp.) leaves, because they are the leaves that freshwater biologists use for studies into invertebrate leaf shreddders, due to their <"high palatibility">.  Because the leaves stay green on the trees for such a long time (and they are early to leaf)  there would only be a short window when fresh leaves weren't available.

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy (17 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> invertebrate leaf shredders,


Interesting read, thanks for posting it.
Not surprised that cadis fly larva came out as winners, they used to decimate aquatic plants in my jam jar aquariums. (the 2lb jars were highly prized). Happy days - long gone.


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## Angus (17 Nov 2021)

Thanks for the link zozo love those cup pods on there, i actually collected some palm pods and dried flowers, date stalks, and a couple fronds today as you all got me in the spirit. 

Part of me wonders if the suitability of alder for feeding shrimp is in any way related to the trees love of flowing rivers, lakes and wetland, what came first, the alder or the shrimp?


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## zozo (17 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> what came first, the alder or the shrimp?



Who knows? It might be the alder / humic substances was the natural stressor that played a major role in the development of higher lifeforms beside plants.

Even tho all the recent studies revealing that its significance can no longer be neglected nor denied the role of HS is still inadequately understood









						(PDF) Humic substances - Part 2: Interactions with organisms
					

PDF | Freshwater bodies which chemistry is dominated by dissolved humic substances (HS) seem to be the major type on Earth, due to huge non-calcareous... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate




					www.researchgate.net
				












						Ecology of Humic Substances in Freshwaters
					






					link.springer.com
				




If you like to get deeper into it search for Dr C. Steinberg and or Stress Ecology


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## Parablennius (17 Nov 2021)

I use Alder cones, Oak, Hawthorn and Beech leaves and------


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## Robbie X (17 Nov 2021)

Awesome feedback everyone, so many thanks 😻👍🏻
I set the tank up today, added the wood and a few almond leaves.
Will post some pics in the journal section 😻


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## dw1305 (18 Nov 2021)

Hi all, 


Angus said:


> Part of me wonders if the suitability of alder for feeding shrimp is in any way related to the trees love of flowing rivers, lakes and wetland, what came first, the alder or the shrimp?


I don't actually know, I'll see if I can find the original reference.

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (19 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


Oldguy said:


> Not surprised that cadis fly larva came out as winners,


From Table 1 a Caddis (_Lepidostoma hirtum_) looks to be the most specialized leaf shredder, followed by <"_Crangonyx pseudogracilis_">_. _


Angus said:


> Part of me wonders if the suitability of alder for feeding shrimp is in any way related to the trees love of flowing rivers, lakes and wetland, what came first, the alder or the shrimp?


I haven't found the original paper, but it looks like _Alnus glutinosa _has been the favoured species for these studies for a long time. I'd guess that people used it initially because it oftens grows by lakes and streams etc. and then subsequent studies found that it was the preferred food item for many detrivores.

One of the most cited paper seems to be Graca, M. _et al_. (2001)  "Food quality, feeding preferences, survival and growth of shredders from temperate and tropical streams" _Freshwater Biology_ *46*:7, pp 947-957., but there are much older references. I'm trying to get full-text of this <"review paper">.

edit: Got it, I'll have a look through it, but probably not before next week.  

cheers Darrel


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## Angus (19 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> One of the most cited paper seems to be Graca, M. _et al_. (2001)  "Food quality, feeding preferences, survival and growth of shredders from temperate and tropical streams" _Freshwater Biology_ *46*:7, pp 947-957., but there are much older references. I'm trying to get full-text of this <"review paper">.


That Graca M. study seems to suggest it's less about the species of leaf and more about what organisms are living on and digesting the leaf... i also found this interesting study on biofilms in macrophyte plants in flow vs static waters, it seems the colonies are extremely diverse i don't understand half the data as i'm not a scientist that knows how to use this instrumentation but it's fascinating nonetheless. Effects of water flow on submerged macrophyte-biofilm systems in constructed wetlands - Scientific Reports


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## CJM70 (19 Nov 2021)

Robbie X said:


> Would probably taste a bit bitter 😹
> I have bought some almond leaves to use as decoration and to add tannins but did not consider boiling a load. They are quite expensive, how many would I need to boil for a 60L tank, and how long does the colour last?
> Cheers


Don’t know if someone has already mentioned but if you want larger leaves you can use Katappa leaves and they are also reputed to have anti microbial qualities (don’t quote me on that but I’m sure I read it somewhere).


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## MichaelJ (19 Nov 2021)

CJM70 said:


> Don’t know if someone has already mentioned but if you want larger leaves you can use Katappa leaves and they are also reputed to have anti microbial qualities (don’t quote me on that but I’m sure I read it somewhere).


Yep, Catappa leaves - also known as Indian Almond Leaves.  The anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties are widely cited as benefits, besides providing a good source of biofilm for shrimps to munch on, and good hiding places for shrimplets 

Cheers,
Michael


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## CJM70 (19 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Yep, Catappa leaves - also known as Indian Almond Leaves.  The anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties are widely cited as benefits, besides providing a good source of biofilm for shrimps etc.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael


Ah cheers Michael, but didn’t realise they were also called that.  Seems everything has so many nicknames, which is why I prefer using proper names as much as possible (although I don’t know all of them by a long shot 😎).


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## Robbie X (19 Nov 2021)

I ordered some cool seed pods from this site https://blackwateruk.com/shop
Really cool looking pods and seeds.
I also collected some alder cones and twigs, along with some oak leaves today, twigs and cones added to tank. Oak leaves are drying after being blanched in boiling water.


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## Angus (19 Nov 2021)

Robbie X said:


> I also collected some alder cones and twigs, along with some oak leaves today, twigs and cones added to tank. Oak leaves are drying after being blanched in boiling water.


Nice! this is some of the palm flower stems i foraged.


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## Robbie X (19 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> Nice! this is some of the palm flower stems i foraged.
> View attachment 177440


Wow, I like them


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## dw1305 (20 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


Angus said:


> less about the species of leaf and more about what organisms are living on and digesting the leaf.


Yes, a lot of studies used "conditioned" leaves, that is leaves that have been in water for several days before the experiment starts. I think that _Alnus_ leaves "condition" (develop an extensive biofilm) more quickly than other leaves, presumably because of their higher sugar and protein content.

cheers Darrel


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## Steve Buce (20 Nov 2021)

+1 for alder cones as tint bombs 
Catappa and Mahogany bark work well


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## NatalieHurrell (10 Dec 2021)

Yes.  I second Rooibos tea.  Caffeine free.


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## Wookii (10 Dec 2021)

Robbie X said:


> Hi all.
> I recently watched a YouTube vid were a chap was using tea in a hang on tea infuser to add tannins and colour to his blackwater tank.
> Is this a legitimate method?
> I know that botanicals and certain types of wood leach tannins and I’m curious what other methods I could use when setting up a blackwater tank?
> Cheers



As others have said, the tea you need to use is Rooibos tea, it contains no caffeine and release much the same things as botanicals.


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