# Studio lighting



## John Starkey (4 Mar 2011)

I am thinking of getting some lighting so I can get better shots indoors,I have looked at some  by proline ,they do a set called Apollo 300 £350 ish,and set called the 180,just different light strengths,jessops have an offer on on a set they do ,reduced to £199 from £250,any one using some they are very happy with and would recommend,I know you get what you pay for but I don't want to spend silly money as I won't be using them that much,so I would like to keep to around £250 budget,

John


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## Tom (4 Mar 2011)

I'm borrowing a Bowens Kit with Manfrotto stands, but it might be out of budget! It's lovely though. The only other lights I've used are Elinchrom. 

Jessops' kits should be fine. It seems to be the build quality and power that determine price, and not necessarily actual performance. You might find it worthwile spending on decent light stands and brollys, then getting the heads separately. Those flimsy stands drive me mad, and cheap brollys tend to bend and split from experience. The cheaper flash heads can be surprisingly decent from what I've heard. I can't comment on reliability though.

Tom


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## ghostsword (4 Mar 2011)

Nice thread. I am also looking for light's but got no idea where to even start. 

So the advice is to invest on light stands, and then get some cheap (but efficient) heads? 

Would all light stands take most lights?

Sorry for the newbie questions.


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## Tom (4 Mar 2011)

Well of course more expensive lights may be more reliable/better built etc, but if you're looking for a budget set then I don't think it's worth the price. I'd much rather have the stability personally. It's no good having a flimsy, unstable stand for something heavy like a flash head. 

Most lights clamp onto the stands these days. but I've used some older screw-fit ones


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## John Starkey (4 Mar 2011)

Thanks Tom sound advice there,i have looked at bowen,s and elichrome but i am just trying to find a middle ground really between price and reliability,certainly agree about the stands,same reason behind a good tripod   ,

John.


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## JenCliBee (4 Mar 2011)

Google .. lencarta ..... they are very good value for money and highly recommended


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## Dan Crawford (4 Mar 2011)

I bought these a couple of weeks ago and certainly can't grumble http://www.stableimaging.co.uk/studio-l ... od_14.html
As Tom says, the stands are a bit naff but the rest of the kit is spot on, really can't complain, especially for the price!


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## LondonDragon (4 Mar 2011)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> really can't complain, especially for the price!


Was the nurse included?


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## Tom (4 Mar 2011)

That looks pretty nice Dan


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## Piece-of-fish (5 Mar 2011)

I got similar kit to Dans from ebay. 2x250 for 130£
same observations, unsteady but manageable stands. 
Work good for me so far.


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## whatok (6 Mar 2011)

I find it surprising no-one has asked what you are shooting?

If it's just tanks and such, i think it would be worth avoiding buying such kits with superfluous bits, and instead in perhaps a decent flashgun or two and some diffusers, these will hold nearer their value in future.

I find photography, just like the aquarium hobby, tends to encourage buying "stuff". It's difficult, but usually you're better off holding out and going slowly.


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## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2011)

whatok said:
			
		

> I find it surprising no-one has asked what you are shooting?
> 
> If it's just tanks and such, i think it would be worth avoiding buying such kits with superfluous bits, and instead in perhaps a decent flashgun or two and some diffusers, these will hold nearer their value in future.
> 
> I find photography, just like the aquarium hobby, tends to encourage buying "stuff". It's difficult, but usually you're better off holding out and going slowly.



I think 1 or 2 would agree with you whatok, but on the other hand most would disagree.  8) 

Photography retailers/manufacturers dont go about trying to 'catch' the consumer in a big net and making them buy 'flashy' gear (excuse the pun) Nearly all things in the photography hobby are 'needed' unlike other hobbies

lighting is important, regardless of what you want to shoot. A kelvin rating of 5400K is 5400k right?...whether it be from a head or a flash gun. The subject isnt fussy if it's either choice, but given the option, I'd prefer the more powerful of the 2.   

Shooting tanks, and I've done a little myself, requires loads of light...and i mean loads. These kits are the way to go IME. The only difference from expensive to cheap, will be build quality, and a slight difference in the quality of the light. 

I personally use the bowens 200w heads and there simply one of the best lights you can get. Durable and accurate.


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## Tom (6 Mar 2011)

whatok said:
			
		

> I find it surprising no-one has asked what you are shooting?
> 
> If it's just tanks and such, i think it would be worth avoiding buying such kits with superfluous bits, and instead in perhaps a decent flashgun or two and some diffusers, these will hold nearer their value in future.
> 
> I find photography, just like the aquarium hobby, tends to encourage buying "stuff". It's difficult, but usually you're better off holding out and going slowly.



I have a Canon flashgun, and I really don't like the effect it gives as an over tank flash. It seems much harsher and more 'directed'. You have much more control over a studio flash, and can achieve much much more. Unless you power it right up and fire through a brolly or something to diffuse the light better, it's nowhere near as good.


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## whatok (6 Mar 2011)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Photography retailers/manufacturers dont go about trying to 'catch' the consumer in a big net and making them buy 'flashy' gear (excuse the pun) Nearly all things in the photography hobby are 'needed' unlike other hobbies



Really? In the nicest possible way, this strikes me as slightly naive. The photography industry has one of the biggest crossovers, from amateur to professional directed equipment among amateurs, and this success story for the retailer is entirely motivated by the myth of 'needing' a faster flashgun, or a carbon tripod, the latest SD or 1 more f-stop. You only have to look at the weddings and events market, even just online, to see that photographers are obsessed with gear and gadgets that they might never be able to use properly/see the benefits of.

I'm not saying that a decent rig wouldn't be ideal, it would. But a snoot, coloured gels, a sync kit and some cheap lights could easily add up to a negative investment here. If you really feel you need to upgrade, its usually an idea to rent/borrow some equipment first, see how you go with that, and then buy used, quality gear separately.

Obviously, I'm an awful salesman, but I like to think i'm still a decent photographer


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## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2011)

whatok said:
			
		

> the retailer is entirely motivated by the myth of 'needing' a faster flashgun, or a carbon tripod, the latest SD or 1 more f-stop.



maybe the retailer part in my comment is wrong, but only slightly. I've never been hassled into buying something i didn't want photography wise...unlike aquatic retailers for example...constantly telling us what we need, but ultimately these products just dont work

photography is a little more clear cut. If you want/need faster lenses, buy it. there's no down side, only plus sides to this.



			
				whatok said:
			
		

> to see that photographers are obsessed with gear and gadgets that they might never be able to use properly/see the benefits of.



Then that's the user error right?...not the manufacturer. If you want to be good at something, they customer must do their homework. I've bought 'cheap' gear and regretted it! Buy cheap, Buy twice



			
				whatok said:
			
		

> Really? In the nicest possible way, this strikes me as slightly naive.



and taken in the nicest possible way   , but one thing i'm not when it comes to photography is naive   

back to the point, a flash head, beats a flashgun, hands down. 

with all due respect   I cant really imagine, photographing my last 120cm with a flash gun or 2


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## Tom (6 Mar 2011)

whatok said:
			
		

> If it's just tanks and such, i think it would be worth avoiding buying such kits with superfluous bits, and instead in perhaps a decent flashgun or two and some diffusers, these will hold nearer their value in future.



Going back to this, have you seen the price of "decent" flashgun's recently? More expensive than these cheap studio kits for one Canon gun. The 430EX is Canon's second best offering and comes in at £199 or thereabouts. You get far far less for your money.


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## whatok (6 Mar 2011)

But they even have a term for this, it's called "prosumer"! 

Maybe you have had good experience with retailers, but from my experience, most people taking the jump from a P&S to more serious equipment end up wasting a large proportion of their budget, because they chose something they either saw a 'pro' use, or were advised to buy in the shop. For a basic example, perhaps 80% of UV filters are sold as pointless extras.

Then again, as you say, it is about educating yourself before you buy (buy cheap, buy twice), but i don't believe for a minute that this is what most manufacturers or retailers actually encourage you to do. "You need a faster lens! You need a higher ISO! You need that special black cardboard that the pros use!" 




			
				Tom said:
			
		

> whatok said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In hindsight, I should not have said 'decent'! Most flashguns use the same cheap technology, with a ton of extra "features" thrown in that are useless, and in this way, i agree they aren't worth the money. However, a flashgun is much more versatile than a studio strobe/lamp if you aren't a professional studio photographer, and you can pick up a new non-branded one for under £100 easily if you do your research.


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## George Farmer (6 Mar 2011)

With regards studio lighting I think it's a nice investment if you want to take your aquarium photography to the next level.

It's also very nice for portraits, still life, macro etc.  A basic kit costs less than £200 and can give great results.

These were taken using one entry-level 150w Interfit head - available for about £100. Cheaper than most flash guns.











			
				whatok said:
			
		

> For a basic example, perhaps 80% of UV filters are sold as pointless extras.


I use these as a protective cover on my lenses.  Better the UV filter smashes instead of the filter glass... Mine have already paid for themselves many times over.  They're pointless if the UV filter is worth more than the lens though...


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## whatok (6 Mar 2011)

I'd rather just look after my glass, than negate its value by "protecting" it with a inferior piece of glass, which (from  experience in rentals) can become smashed and subsequently warped and fixed into the lens, after a knock or bash that would otherwise not have caused a problem. The kind of work i do means my gear gets a lot of abuse, but, touch wood, you'd be surprised how resilient lenses and bodies generally are.. I'd rather not have the supposed 'safety net' and then take more care with my gear, leaving me to spend the difference on women and fast cars.

You guys are probably right about this situation, it is probably best to go for a studio rig, but only if you're going to get the use out of it! I know plenty of people with all the fancy gear, sitting in a cupboard doing nothing, after they decided they "needed" just one more Gary Fong or whatever other rubbish they saw on the internet!


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## George Farmer (7 Mar 2011)

whatok said:
			
		

> I'd rather just look after my glass, than negate its value by "protecting" it with a inferior piece of glass, which (from  experience in rentals) can become smashed and subsequently warped and fixed into the lens, after a knock or bash that would otherwise not have caused a problem. The kind of work i do means my gear gets a lot of abuse, but, touch wood, you'd be surprised how resilient lenses and bodies generally are..


Very good points!   

I was about to buy a high-end UV filter for my 24-105 but don't think I'll bother after reading that.  

I do take good care of my kit and I guess the hood will prevent a lot of potential damage too.  

My youngest daughter broke my previous UV filter by 'playing' with the lens whilst I left it on the kitchen table during a tank shoot.  Now she's a bit older and wiser too...


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## John Starkey (7 Mar 2011)

Wow thanks guys,some very good points from all sides,I allready have the 430ex,which I find very good for general stuff but like I said i said I want better tank shots and even better indoor shots,I also have always lived by the same motto as Mark said,if you buy cheap you buy twice,but I will add in some cases it has not always been the case but most of the time it is,I shall get something that's not cheap but not ott either,thanks for all your help it was interesting reading,

George nice shot of the young lady,(is it Jannine ? )


John


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## Anonymous (8 Mar 2011)

I stick to my cheap UV over the front lens... had my hard time at seaside cleaning lots of sand from it so for me at least it does its job.

What's the strobe's average power needed when shooting a tank?

Cheers,
Mike


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## Dave Spencer (8 Mar 2011)

There is no doubt that studio lights are the way to go for this type of photography. The only reason I haven`t bothered with any myself is because I wouldn`t get the use out of them, or would feel a little pressured in to taking portraits to get the usage out of them.

Mark`s photos of his tanks are testament to the best way to the photograph tanks, and we all know that Johnny the Wop is swimming in money.


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## John Starkey (8 Mar 2011)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> There is no doubt that studio lights are the way to go for this type of photography. The only reason I haven`t bothered with any myself is because I wouldn`t get the use out of them, or would feel a little pressured in to taking portraits to get the usage out of them.
> 
> Mark`s photos of his tanks are testament to the best way to the photograph tanks, and we all know that Johnny the Wop is swimming in money.



Hi Dave,hope your good mate,the rate i spend my money i won,t have any left    ,i will wait until the vivarium get together and have a good chin-wag with the guys in the bus,

John.


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