# New Tank Unsure On Substrate And Need Help Please



## cheekycharly (27 Nov 2011)

Hi guys I am looking to setup my new 260L Juwel Vision Darkwood aquarium as a planted tank with Discus. I have been reading online and have hit a minefield when it comes to substrate as I keep hearing different reviews on the following products... 

Fluorite Black  :? 
Tropica  :?: 
ADA Aquasoil   
Eco Complete   
Dennerle Crystal Quartz   

What I am after is a substrate that I don’t have to remove/change regular and will stay permanently in the tank. I also don’t want a substrate that is very brittle and will crumble to dust. Could you please give me your opinions for what product you recommend and amount needed to fulfill my setup. 

In my first tank I used sand as a substrate and plants rooted well and grew well then in my second tank I used Roman Black gravel and plants never grew even with a Co2 system in place. 

Many Thanks


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## Alastair (27 Nov 2011)

It's really down to personal opinion with substrate, and also what price your willing to pay. The most effective in terms of plants would be the ada aqua soil, however I'm not too sure in terms of length of product how long it will actually last. All your choices are good. 
If your going to be dosing the water column with ferts either off the shelf or ei salts, substrate isn't that important. Aesthetically there all nice, and if I had the money I'd possibly try the expensive stuff. I personally have the juwel vision 450, and as you can imagine to use one of he above substrates would have emptied my bank account lol. Plain old tesco cat litter in mine works a treat, looks nice and won't crumble and cost me 15 quid ti cover what I wanted. 
For your tank you'd only need two possibly 3 bags at just over 8 pound in total. 
It's personal choice mate, we could all chip in with our own opinions/experiences but really it's down to what you want.


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2011)

There are two very popular choices - ADA Aqua soil if you have the budget or cat litter if you dont have the budget!
Of Course there are lots of choices in between but none of them seem to offer the two extremes so successfully  :? 
What I mean is ADA has been proven over & over again to be the best substrate for successful aquascaping & can be used in long term setups although the impregnated ferts will deplete in time.
On the other hand baked clay like certain cat litters also grow plants very well but are not so good for forming shapes, has a unique coloring & offer no ferts to start off with.
As Alastair says - its a lot about personal choice..


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## spyder (28 Nov 2011)

Do you have a budget for the substrate? I guess this is what it really boils down to. £10, £100+?

You could go the Tesco kitty litter route and plant out your tank well for the same price you would spend on a high end substrate alone. Don't get me wrong I would love to try out all these ada substrate additives and super soils but simply cannot afford to do it. Maybe one day in a nano.   

I have £50's worth of eco complete in a 60l and to be honest I see no noticable difference between that and cat litter apart from it's heavier, grittier and easier to plant in.

An expensive substrate may give you a litle more confidence but in reality if you nail co2 distribution and flow, supply sufficient ferts and control lighting and have a good maintenance routine, then you will succeed with a cheaper substrate.

Good luck with the tank whatever you choose.


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## ghostsword (28 Nov 2011)

I prefer akadama, very cheap, good colour and easy to work with. I cook it on a high temperature oven for a while and stays even harder. 



___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## cheekycharly (28 Nov 2011)

Hi guys thanks for all the input. Budget isn't a problem with this tank as I want it right from the start so I have budgeted for possible change of substrate from my 18month old 30KG of Roman Black Gravel. I would prefer the substrate to be a dark colour so the cat litter option is not one for me. My Co2 supply is a DIY 2KG fire extinguisher and I've just bought a new diffuser that's ceramic and gives off thousands of micro bubbles (looked impressive online). So what you guys are saying is its not mainly down to the substrate it's more down to the additional factors like C02 supply, lighting, liquid ferts etc... Is that right?


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2011)

I think you need to read up on ADA Amazolia but yes it is about lots of things working together.
However the substrate is important & ADA is recommended & used by virtually all the top scapers for good reason!


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## Alastair (28 Nov 2011)

Foxfish is right on the point about the ada as its loaded with ferts. How ever you can grow a lush garden in bog standard pea gravel if your spot on with ferts and co2.


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## cheekycharly (28 Nov 2011)

So you recon I can save a bundle and stick with my Roman black gravel?


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## foxfish (28 Nov 2011)

Sounds like you just checked out the price of ADA soil LOL


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## Alastair (28 Nov 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Sounds like you just checked out the price of ADA soil LOL


   



			
				cheekycharly said:
			
		

> So you recon I can save a bundle and stick with my Roman black gravel?



Yes of course mate.ensuring your co2 is at optimum levels along with your fert dosing and flow.


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## Greenview (29 Nov 2011)

You could always put a bagful of Tropica Plant Substrate under the gravel if you wanted something nutritious on the bottom


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## cheekycharly (29 Nov 2011)

I'm sure I read somewhere that Tropica turns to a compact hard mud after a bit. Can anyone confirm this online rumour?


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## foxfish (29 Nov 2011)

Have a read through this thread viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13801 there are only a few substrates that really offer benefits over gavel!


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## cheekycharly (29 Nov 2011)

Smashing thread to link there, Thanks. So now I'm thinking either just my Roman Gravel or a small layer of sand then the Gravel to help rooting. What ferts are you guys buying and how often are you dosing.


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## Alastair (29 Nov 2011)

I buy ei ferts from the forum sponsors aquarium plant food or fluidsensor. Both ate excellent and ei saves a packet over bottled ferts. 
I dose 5 out of 7 days.


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