# EI Dosing Levels and a few questions



## rocafreestyler (30 Sep 2010)

Hi,

Looking to start EI dosing in my tank and would just like to double check my dosing and ask a few questions.

My tank:-

Width: 120cm (47.24")
Height: 70cm (27.56")
Depth: 50cm (19.69")
420litres (108 US Gals)

But substrate is fairly deep so I would estimate that the actual volume is around

324litres (83 US Gals.)
216 Watts T5HO lighting (2.6 WPG)

I have purchased the following:-

Potassium Nitrate 250g -  (KNO3)
Monopotassium Phosphate 250g - (KH2PO4)
Magnesium Sulphate 250g - (MgSO4)
Trace Elements - 250g - consisting of Fe 8.4%, Mn 1.82%, Zn 1.16, B 1.05%, Cu 0.23%, Mo 0.15%

Based on the 20g example in the EI article I increased all measures by 4 to fit with my 80g.

Sunday â€“ 50% or more Water Change then dose [3/4 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/4 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoons MgSO4]
Monday â€“ 1/4 teaspoon Trace Elements
Tuesday - [3/4 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/4 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 1/4 teaspoon Trace Elements
Thursday - [3/4 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/4 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [2 teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday â€“ Rest
Saturday - Rest

4 Weeks NPK Solution based on 12 doses
9 tsp KNO3
3 tsp KH2PO4
24 tsp MgSO4
600ml water
600ml/12 = 50ml
dose 50ml (Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday)


4 Weeks Trace Elements solution based on 8 doses
2 tsp Trace Elements
200ml water
dose 25ml (Monday, Wednesday)

Do these dosages look correct?

Ok a few questions.

Is it worth keeping solutions refrigerated?

Am I correct from reading the EI article that if I dose with the amounts above that would give me enough nutrients to last one week if I had unlimited lighting (5-6 wpg) Is this based on a particular "lights-on" period in hours per day? I could not find anywhere a suggested "lights-on" time per day. What would you guys recommend?

It seems that if using EI the main contributer to algae in the tank is due to CO2 problems either too much/too little. What is the best method for testing CO2 in the tank. I have seen numerous bits of equipment for testing but am not sure which way to go.

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be fantastic. 

I will post some pics when up and running

Cheers


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## a1Matt (30 Sep 2010)

rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> It seems that if using EI the main contributer to algae in the tank is due to CO2 problems either too much/too little. What is the best method for testing CO2 in the tank. I have seen numerous bits of equipment for testing but am not sure which way to go.
> 
> Sorry for the long post. Any help would be fantastic.



Your right, while it is necessary to get all elements of the tank balanced, co2 is the main stumbling block for most.
So to your question... a dropchecker is the best bet for measuring co2.
There is an article on this here that covers everything you need to know: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467

I'm too lazy to answer your other questions and check your dosing levels   
but I am sure someone else will soon enough


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## rocafreestyler (30 Sep 2010)

Thanks for your response.

I think i will get the drop checker mentioned in the article (JBL permanent co2 test). The glass ones look nice but i have a tendency for smashing any glass equipment I buy.


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## CeeJay (30 Sep 2010)

Hi rocafreestyler


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> Do these dosages look correct?


Your numbers are looking good


			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> co2 is the main stumbling block for most.


and high lighting is the stumbling block for most others   


			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> I'm too lazy to answer your other questions and check your dosing levels


Tut Tut Matt........no commitment   


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> I could not find anywhere a suggested "lights-on" time per day.


I think the original EI tests were eventually ramped up to 12 hours per day, but you don't want to be anywhere near that at the start.
I usually start at 6 hours per day and crank it up by an hour a month. I'm currently only running 8 hours a day to slow the growth down   


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> I think i will get the drop checker mentioned in the article (JBL permanent co2 test).


These work well and the white background is well useful. I used to run one but after about a year the seal went. Not immediately obvious because the level in the drop checker stayed the same (because the air can't get out), but what you see is some strange colours in the drop checker and eventually it all exchanges with the tank water and you are left with clear liquid (tank water), in the drop checker. Took a while for the penny to drop with that one, I was suspecting my 4dkh solution, CO2 delivery etc.
I now use one of the glass ones   Problem solved.


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## ceg4048 (1 Oct 2010)

rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> ...But substrate is fairly deep so I would estimate that the actual volume is around
> 324litres (83 US Gals.)...
> 
> 4 Weeks NPK Solution based on 12 doses
> ...


No, it does not. Why does everyone turn a blind eye to the third paragraph immediately following the dosing example, which states specifically:





> The example given above is for a 20 US Gallon tank but the teaspoon dosages can be scaled directly. If your tank is half as large then you would use half much powder. If a tank were for example 57 gallons you would simply multiply the teaspoon count by 57/20 or 3. There is no need to be exact. *There is no need to calculate how much actual water you have (20 gallon tank but only 15 gallons of water). *...


The 20 gallon dosing was based on a tank size of 20 gallons, therefore a 100 gallon tank dosing must be based on a tank size of 100 gallons. The bigger the tank, the more critical it is to adhere to this policy. Bigger tanks normally require more nutrients than the baseline, not less. Please recalculate using a scaling factor of 100/20 (5) not 4. You could even use a scaling factor of 6 and still not be over the top.

This is how people get into trouble, by underdosing. Then they get algae and because the dosing concept is still a bit radical, they immediately conclude that it was because they were adding so much nutrients, when in fact they were not dosing enough. This happens because all are programmed by The Matrix to fear nutrients, either overtly or at a subliminal level. The tendency therefore is to subconsciously find any excuse to err on the low side, which ultimately causes more problems than it solves.


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> Is it worth keeping solutions refrigerated?


Not really, especially if you live in a temperate climate. Extended time in warm temperatures can cause fungus but his can be averted by adding a few drops of muriatic acid or even some Excel to the bottle. Of course there's nothing wrong with refrigerating the mixes. Try both ways and see what works best for you. 


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> Am I correct from reading the EI article that if I dose with the amounts above that would give me enough nutrients to last one week if I had unlimited lighting (5-6 wpg) Is this based on a particular "lights-on" period in hours per day? I could not find anywhere a suggested "lights-on" time per day. What would you guys recommend?


Plants rarely use any more than about 8 hours of light. Any more than this tends to encourage algae, especially at warm temperatures. I recommend that you use an 8 hour limit to begin with. As the tank stabilizes in a few months you can extend the photoperiod for viewing purposes if you wish.


			
				rocafreestyler said:
			
		

> It seems that if using EI the main contributer to algae in the tank is due to CO2 problems either too much/too little.


Well, to be precise, too much CO2 never causes algae, but can kill fish. Too little CO2 or too little stability in your CO2 application will cause algae. Additionally, EI has nothing to do with algae caused by poor CO2 application. Algae caused by poor CO2 couldn't care less about the dosing regime because they are not triggered by dosing mistakes, only by CO2 mistakes. That's why CO2 related algae appear in any tank regardless of whether the tank is dosed via EI or via other techniques. No relation between the two whatsoever.

Cheers,


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## rocafreestyler (1 Oct 2010)

Hi CeeJay, Thank you for you response. This seems like a great forum to get help and tips. Maybe I will be able to offer sme back once I get up and running.



> The 20 gallon dosing was based on a tank size of 20 gallons, therefore a 100 gallon tank dosing must be based on a tank size of 100 gallons. The bigger the tank, the more critical it is to adhere to this policy. Bigger tanks normally require more nutrients than the baseline, not less. Please recalculate using a scaling factor of 100/20 (5) not 4. You could even use a scaling factor of 6 and still not be over the top.



Hi Ceg thank you very much for your help and especially with the point quoted above. The doses have been recalculated to 6x example to be absolutely sure that the tank is getting enough nutrients from the outset.

Sunday â€“ 50% or more Water Change then dose [1 & 1/8 teaspoon KNO3] + [3/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [3 teaspoon MgSO4]
Monday â€“ 3/8  teaspoon CSM+B
Tuesday - [1 & 1/8  teaspoon KNO3] + [3/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [3 teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 3/8  teaspoon CSM+B
Thursday - [1 & 1/8  teaspoon KNO3] + [3/8 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [3 teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday â€“ Rest
Saturday - Rest

NPK Mix
[1 & 1/8 tsp KNO3]*12 = 13 & 1/2  tsp KNO3
[3/8 tsp KH2PO4]*12 = 4 & 1/2 tsp KH2PO4
[3 tsp MgSO4]*12 = 36 tsp MgSO4
600ml of tap or distilled water
600ml/12 = 50ml dose 3 times a week

Trace
[3/8 tsp trace]*8 = 3 tsp trace.
200ml  of tap or distilled water
200ml/8 =  25 ml does 2 times per week.


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## a1Matt (1 Oct 2010)

CeeJay said:
			
		

> a1Matt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll do the UKAPS equivalent of 10 hail marys, which is giving away some free plants


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## CeeJay (1 Oct 2010)

Hi


			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> I'll do the UKAPS equivalent of 10 hail marys, which is giving away some free plants


   

rocafreestyler
Clive to the rescue...........again.
I must pay more attention   . Having skimmed the opening post, I homed in on the 83 gallon figure when it clearly states above it that it's 108 gallons. So, apologies for the misleading advice. That could have caused you a right headache and all the time you would have been thinking your dosing numbers were correct  
I escaped the Matrix many moons ago and I currently run double the EI values (have done for the last 5 months). Fish and shrimp are fine, plants loving it and no algae, not even on the hardscape


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## ceg4048 (3 Oct 2010)

10 Hail Marys for you too mate!  

Cheers,


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## CeeJay (4 Oct 2010)




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