# New tank, leave it? or not?



## Kai McNeil (27 Aug 2016)

Hi All, 

Im after some advice. 

I am 2 weeks into cycling my tank, its heavily planted with C02... for the last week i have stopped dosing with Micro and Macro nutrients. 

The water is cloudy, nitrite is very low, nitrates are very high - the highest on the test chart. 

Ammonia, is low. 

Is the nitrate level at a level i should consider a water change or do i just leave it? 

I will be testing the water from the tap tomorrow, to determine whether the nitrate level is high from source. 

All advice is appreciated.


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## foxfish (27 Aug 2016)

Have you done any water changing?


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## Kai McNeil (27 Aug 2016)

Not yet, its only been filled for 2 weeks. Some people say leave it, some people dont and to let it cycle, so im not sure whats best to do.


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## foxfish (27 Aug 2016)

I would start water changing straight  away!
Most folk (on this forum anyway) would of been doing up to 50% a day from day one & only gradually reduce this regime over a 3-4 week period.
Personally I prefer 20% a day for the first  week then around 20% every other day for the next two weeks then 50 % every 7 days day for the life of the tank.


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## kadoxu (27 Aug 2016)

foxfish said:


> Most folk (on this forum anyway) would of been doing up to 50% a day from day one & only gradually reduce this regime over a 3-4 week period.


Exactly what I've been told to do here in the forum when I was in trouble...


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## Kai McNeil (27 Aug 2016)

Thankyou! ill start now!.... ive been looking into fishless cycles online, various sites, and i never came across any info regarding changing the water.... apart from the week before you intend to add fish, once everything is the right level!
Glad i checked.


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## kadoxu (27 Aug 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> ive been looking into fishless cycles online, various sites, and i never came across any info regarding changing the water.... apart from the week before you intend to add fish, once everything is the right level!


The same happened to me... I believe some of them follow a very strict Walstad methodology (whitch means they don't use ferts or CO2, all they need comes from fish food & waste & a fertilised substrate and the amount of water changes needed is minimal) and others just don't use live plants at all.


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

OK, well i will start with the water changes.  50% water changes every day for a week, gradually reducing this down over the next 3-4 weeks. Ill keep an eye on my nitrates and nitrites to ensure everything is cycling correctly.


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

Update.. Ive also found out the reason for the high nitrates.... i tested the water from my taps, and the reading is as high as the test kit gives... looks like ill need to find a way to lower the nitrates aswell.


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## alto (28 Aug 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> i tested the water from my taps, and the reading is as high as the test kit gives


Check with your local water board - this sounds too high ... also bring a sample into a local fish shop & have them test (they likely are familiar with local tap & should have some suggestions) 


You don't mention what substrate etc you've used but generally " heavily planted with CO2" (I'd guess fairly high light as well) & I'd be doing frequent water changes
Are you seeing any "melt" or plant leaf deterioration?


I took a moment to look & found some answers in your other post


Kai McNeil said:


> So, ive ended up going for 1 x TMC Grobeam 1500 Ultima Tile, working alongside my 2 Arcadia stretches. So far so good, I flooded my tank just under two weeks ago, and ive already have to trim down my dwarf hairgrass. Its spreading quickly!
> 
> This includes, C02 at 2-3 bps and Micro and Macro nutrients 3 times a week.






Kai McNeil said:


> for the last week i have stopped dosing with Micro and Macro nutrients.


Is there some reason you've stopped dosing?


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

Hi, Im using black sand, (Seachem Flourtite) and yes as you found above, those are the lights im currently running, however i do have a tall tank

My plants look great, im currently attempting to carpet my tank with Dwarf hairgrass, and its spreading like wild fire. I also have long hairgrass and a few others which again are growing and look very good. 

I stopped dosing macro nutrients because i already have enough nitrate, im going to re-start with the micro nutrients, and look into a PK if im already recieving enough N from my tap water.


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## kadoxu (28 Aug 2016)

Kai McNeil said:


> Update.. Ive also found out the reason for the high nitrates.... i tested the water from my taps, and the reading is as high as the test kit gives... looks like ill need to find a way to lower the nitrates aswell.


I think that water companies must have a public water quality report available for everyone to see... Mine is Thames Water, if I Google 'thames water quality report' I get the detailed report for all tests performed in the previous year. It includes average measurements on a lot of thing as well as minimum and maximum recorded measurements, so it can give you an idea of expected tap water parameters.

Also, if a pipe gets replaced on the way to your place, you can get really bad water paremeters for a couple of days... it happened to someone here on UKAPS, but I can't remember who it was.


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

I have checked mine, its anglian water, i live in east anglia well known to have excessive nutrients in tap water due to the amount of agriuclutral land here.the average is supposed to be 30PPM, however thats not the reading im getting from the tests. I have emailed them and asked for when they last tested it. We will see what happens

its worth noting though, that legally there covered aslong as its 50PPM or under.


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## dw1305 (28 Aug 2016)

Hi all,
Add some floating plants if you haven't got any, they will be able to utilise the extra nitrogen, because they have access to 400ppm aerial CO2.

I'm not a great fan of test kits, it isn't that the test results wouldn't be useful, the problem comes because it is really difficult to get accurate and repeatable results. Have a look at <"http://ukaps.org/forum/threads/testing-strips-vs-liquid-test.41881/"> (and linked threads).  





kadoxu said:


> I think that water companies must have a public water quality report available for everyone to see... Mine is Thames Water, if I Google 'thames water quality report' I get the detailed report for all tests performed in the previous year. It includes average measurements on a lot of thing as well as minimum and maximum recorded measurements, so it can give you an idea of expected tap water parameters.


I agree with "kadoxu", the company has to report when they breach the 50ppm limit, and they have dedicated analytical labs which are independently audited. 





Kai McNeil said:


> I am 2 weeks into cycling my tank, its heavily planted with C02.


Did you add ammonia initially? If you did it may account for the very high NO3 readings, and you don't need to. 

Heavily planted tanks are never cycled in the same way that a tank reliant on microbial filtration (in the filter) would be. Have a look at this thread (and links) <"http://ukaps.org/forum/threads/high-ammonia-nitrites-and-nitrates-during-cycling.41992/">.

cheers Darrel


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Add some floating plants if you haven't got any, they will be able to utilise the extra nitrogen, because they have access to 400ppm aerial CO2.
> 
> I'm not a great fan of test kits, it isn't that the test results wouldn't be useful, the problem comes because it is really difficult to get accurate and repeatable results. Have a look at <"http://ukaps.org/forum/threads/testing-strips-vs-liquid-test.41881/"> (and linked threads).  I agree with "kadoxu", the company has to report when they breach the 50ppm limit, and they have dedicated analytical labs which are independently audited. Did you add ammonia initially? If you did it may account for the very high NO3 readings, and you don't need to.
> ...


I added fish food, as my source of ammonia, and not alot at that.


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## Kai McNeil (28 Aug 2016)

On another note, learning that cycling an aquarium plants and an aquarium not having plants is different.. I'm confused as to what stage i am at now? 

Ammonia 0.011
Nirtrates - Very High off the chart (from taps) and so therefore in the aquarium
Nitrites - Very low 
PH 6.41

Am i at the beginning of the cycle , middle, end? 

My Ammonia is dropping slowly, but i should i be ramping it up? 

Maybe drop in a shrimp?


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## alto (28 Aug 2016)

Just add fish food 
- no need for shrimp ... depending on size you're planning it could easily offset your plant/algae balance

Again depending on what livestock & how many at once, you don't need to cycle with anymore than 1-2 ppm ammonia 

Excessively high nitrates may be slowing the development of some bacteria (of interest) & I'd be loathe to introduce sensitive fish/shrimp into this environment - if you're planning on getting stock from your lfs, check their tank conditions.

Regardless of planted tank or not, I don't introduce livestock if there are measureable levels of ammonia or nitrites.

Tanks may cycle in as little as 2 weeks or as long as 10-12 weeks, 4-6 weeks is often suggested as a guideline


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## foxfish (28 Aug 2016)

Home test kits are notoriously unreliable, water companies have legal obligations to maintain all parameters at a safe level!
Please don't test you tank with live creatures.
Perhaps do some Yoga & relax for a few weeks 
Try to establish a nice clean looking tank with good algae free plant growth, the plants will help to stabilise the tank but it takes time and patience to achieve this status.


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## dw1305 (29 Aug 2016)

Hi all, 





Kai McNeil said:


> My Ammonia is dropping slowly, but i should i be ramping it up?


No, you don't need to add ammonia at all.

"Cycled" or "not cycled" isn't really a very useful concept. There isn't a sudden switch from "toxic" to "fish safe", in all biological filtration systems there is a continuum from no capability to deal with ammonia & nitrite through to the ability to process wastes with enormous <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand"> (BOD).  BOD is the prime metric, and we are really interested in <"oxygen"> (filtration bit is towards the end) and not ammonia at all.

The advantage of plants is that they are net oxygen producers, they directly take up ammonia, and they create a much larger area for microbial colonisation, because of this plant/microbe filtration systems can potentially deal with about an order of magnitude more bioload than microbe only systems can.

There is a pretty exhaustive discussion of cycling in <"Best way to cycle..."> (and particularly in the two linked "PlanetCatfish" threads).

cheers Darrel


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