# AGA 2008 results...



## George Farmer (16 Nov 2008)

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... w-showcase

Congrats to zig!  Two 1st places is one hell of an achievement.  And well done to all other UKAPS entrants, of course.

You may notice one of the judges was me.  What an experience!

I look forward to entering myself next year.


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## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

well done zig, i think the sites got overload, cant down load images. im up for this next year.


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## Steve Smith (16 Nov 2008)

Congrats Zig!

Site does seem to be struggling a bit!


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

I can't see the images!

Wow, what an achievement George - judge of AGA! You're well on the way to becoming the next Amano.


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## planter (16 Nov 2008)

Well done Peter. You too George


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## billy boy (16 Nov 2008)

well done zig, I thought that Mirko Agasit  "clouds on the lake" was really eye catching


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## Superman (16 Nov 2008)

Well done Zig. I'll have a look later when the link works. I'm sure it'll look toxic.


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## planter (16 Nov 2008)

billy boy said:
			
		

> well done zig, I thought that Mirko Agasit  "clouds on the lake" was really eye catching




Im with you on that , My favourite scape


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## George Farmer (16 Nov 2008)

The Best of Show totally blew me away - see XL category.

It was a close call between that and Peter's Mountainscape V2...


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## zig (16 Nov 2008)

Thanks all!! 

speechless> thats an understatement


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## Steve Smith (16 Nov 2008)

And to have Amano commenting on them both ...  Congrats mate


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## Fred Dulley (16 Nov 2008)

That's brilliant. Congrats Peter and everyone else.
A judge, George! Kept that quiet eh.


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## aaronnorth (16 Nov 2008)

congrats Peter, you producing some top quality stuff at the moment


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## GreenNeedle (17 Nov 2008)

Congrats Zig.  The beers are on you me thinks. Always like those scapes since the first day you put them on hence me trying out a few of your methods. lol

One things that disappoints me though with the overall placings is they are all minimalist/Iwagumi/Nature styles and there isn't a spread of Jungle/Dutch styles.  Maybe the entries for these 2 types weren't up to standard but it does seem to me that the Nature style seems to preferred over the others these days.

Maybe just me and I know people probs will go meh and pfff what ever I say but I wasn't particularly impressed with the best in show, the 3rd placed small, the 3rd placed medium. the 1st and 2nd placed large.  I think there were better in each category than these but then I am no aquascaper. lol

I was however happy to see that the gimmick scapes with lakes etc (thinking Lazarevic in particular) were rated on what they are IMO.  They look really fake to me.

That Bob Vivian is hard to please.  Couldn't believe some of his comments. lol

Well done to George.  Moving up through the 'ranks' very swiftly now.  I guess you are now a Captain?  How long before you are the General? 

AC


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## Thomas McMillan (17 Nov 2008)

^ I noticed that with regards to the placings. I was looking at some of them thinking ''are you looking at the same scape as I am?'' because I think there were better scapes than some of the higher ranked ones.


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## Steve Smith (17 Nov 2008)

Are the scapes ranked similar to the ADA results, or is it just 1st, 2nd, 3rd, honourable mention, the rest... ?


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## George Farmer (17 Nov 2008)

Hi Steve

Every aquascape is marked out of 100 (see the judging criteria on the AGA site) and ranked accordingly by collating all the judges' marks.  Lower rank positions aren't made public.

Prizes are awarded to the top 3 in each category and 'Highly Commended' are 'scapes that any one judge marked as their personal favourite in that category (if they weren't already in the top 3).


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## Steve Smith (17 Nov 2008)

Ah right.  I did wonder if it was something along those lines.  If I entered a scape and ranked, say 900th (most likely ) would I be told what my own rank is, or are all the ranks kept private, even from the person that entered the scape?

Congrats on being a judge   I bet it took a while to review and comment on all of those scapes.  You seem to be the only judge who has consistently commented on the entries, from all the ones I've managed to load/look at so far


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## zig (17 Nov 2008)

Thanks chaps I'm sure your fed up looking at these tanks of mine by now though better get something new up quick!

I honestly thought I had entered both of these aquascapes in the same small tank catagory in the competition. I dont think I would have enterd both of them if I knew they were going to be in different catagories because lets face it they look pretty similar, one is a copy of the other really. I thought I had read in the entry guidelines (nearly sure I did) that the small tank catagory was under 100 litres and both of my entries would have fitted that rule, with my ADA tank at 97 litres so just about under and the other 54 litres. I cant find the guidelines now on the website, I thought I had printed it off and went looking for it last night but couldn't find it.  They also cropped one of my shots (minor complaint), actually I no complaints, how could I    but I was pretty sure I had entered both in the same catagory and I thought well, sure if they dont like one they might like the other, little did I know!  

Well done to George though, definitely kept that one quiet, some great comments (and lots of them, nearly every entry was commented upon, some of them right on the mark, spot on for judging IMHO) ADA has to be next George  very well done though mate some serious amount of work there I'm sure, many hours, a thankless task as well for the most part.  Kudos to you mate 8) 

Bob Vivian, who is Bob? what handle does he go under around the planted forums? tbh I didn't think his commentry was that harsh, some of his judging I thought was very good as well. Karen Randall has lots of experience at this stage, probably one of the most experienced judges around, some of her commentry can be quite harsh as well but I think people just accept it because she is so experienced and so they accept what she has to say. Takashi Amano, he's not bad either  

Some of the best tanks in the competition were in the large and x large section IMHO.

Pity no one else from UKAPS placed highly this year, last year I had 3 entries and got nowhere, so stick at it, things can turn around, some good scapers on here at this stage  

Anyway just some of my thoughts, overall I enjoyed looking through all of the entries last night, spent a good few hours looking through them, the slow website was driving me bonkers though


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## GreenNeedle (17 Nov 2008)

I can't find the rules anywhere on the site either.  On the forum is says look on the main website and on the main website it just lets you see the entries ;(

Maybe I'll enter next year when its grown so I can read the 'harsh' opinions of my unpruned, unmaintained 'jungle'. lol

AC


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## zig (17 Nov 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> I can't find the rules anywhere on the site either.  On the forum is says look on the main website and on the main website it just lets you see the entries ;(
> 
> Maybe I'll enter next year when its grown so I can read the 'harsh' opinions of my unpruned, unmaintained 'jungle'. lol
> 
> AC



Yes the rules are gone or taken down now the competition is over I suspect, they were issued under "guidelines" or something like that, not exactly rules per se.

I will give you some harsh commentry if you want Andy


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## Amoeba (17 Nov 2008)

Congratulations ;o)


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## a1Matt (17 Nov 2008)

Congrats Zig.  I have to strongly diagree with one of your comments though...



			
				zig said:
			
		

> Thanks chaps I'm sure your fed up looking at these tanks of mine by now though



Thats the beauty of your mountainscape, it captivates you for a long time


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## Terry (17 Nov 2008)

Well done Zig, outstanding achievement.


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## GreenNeedle (17 Nov 2008)

zig said:
			
		

> I will give you some harsh commentry if you want Andy



You already did telling me to put some sticks into my 'scape' 

AC


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## aaronnorth (17 Nov 2008)

Can you enter tanks that arent standing? I am going to take mine down but i would like to enter it next year but i doubt it will still be the same


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## Thomas McMillan (17 Nov 2008)

^ Yeah you can. 

Takeshi Amano isn't gonna pop over to check if the scape is up really, is he?


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## LondonDragon (17 Nov 2008)

Congrats all, and congrats zig on the number ones, thought it was the same tank for a minute there LOL
Site is way to slow to load up, will give it a few days until it quites down to have a proper look


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## Themuleous (17 Nov 2008)

Well done everyone, good to see plenty of entries and esp well done to peter 

Sam


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## aaronnorth (19 Nov 2008)

extra large category is awesome   

Until now i have only just realised the beaty of fissedens fontanus, it is used great in this scape:

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... ol=3&id=46


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## LondonDragon (19 Nov 2008)

Just been browsing through some of the entries, is this third place a mistake?? I don't get it!!
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... l=1&id=177


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## Thomas McMillan (19 Nov 2008)

^ I saw that yesterday and thougt it was a bit dodgy :/    i dunno either...


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## Steve Smith (20 Nov 2008)

I know what you're saying.  I pressume it gained points on difficulty due to the tall nature of the tank.  Maybe the scoring system just went it's way?

One thing that didn't sit right with me (and this is just my opinion of course) was some very nice, very original scapes which some of the judges just didn't get.

We really need a European contest


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## Stu Worrall (20 Nov 2008)

it reminds me of treebeard

oh and a little late but congrats to everyone and zig. have been trying to view the website all week with not much success due to it not loading properly. some amazing tanks and scapes on there


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## GWU (20 Nov 2008)

First of all, congra. zig, your idea is great,  I also impressed when I saw at the 2008 ADA presentation at Tokyo, on that time Amano already said that he give you the highest mark. If you are not saying that it is different tank, I just think it was two different stages of the same tank photo from different focal length lens.... lol.

The natural aquarium style is really dominate the trend, however, there are still a lot of aquatic plant lover they like to keep the dutch style. Actually, for a competition which involve human judgement is not always fair. We know something behind the marking scheme for the past because we know the judges and know's what happen behind. I am not saying that who's fault but if you think that one of the judge only give those tank he/she like with very high mark and the rest mark zero, what do you think..... It make the whole mark scrore deviated.


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## LondonDragon (20 Nov 2008)

Maybe its just me that has seen way to many scapes over the past few years but looks to me that the quality of this competition is a little low this year, there are some good scapes there but nothing really that stands out and some of the winning entries (I mean the top three tanks of each category) don't seem to be in some cases the best in the competition. But again thats my opinion.

GWU welcome to the forum nice to see someone from CAU here too


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## Dan Crawford (20 Nov 2008)

That third place is a little dissapointing IMO, quite surprised actually. Goerge had it on the button with his critique, immature plants, immature moss and a fern that is millimeter perfectly positioned in the exact centre of the tank. Bob thought it was perfectly placed, i know you don't _have_ to stick to the golden ratio but it's golden for a reason, it works!
Anyhow, congrats to the guy, it's not my bag but fair play, obviously he did something right.


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## Steve Smith (20 Nov 2008)

Yeah, I'm not saying I don't like it.  I just think there were better scapes in there.  Maybe the layout was thought to be quite bold as it flies in the face of the golden ration/golden triangle/bermuda triangle... whatever   If that were the case though, I think some other scapes didn't benefit from this viewpoint when perhaps they should of.

Anyhow, the judges are the judges for a reason.  It's their decision to make and from what george has said about the scoring system it sounds fair enough.  As I said before, it may have scored well on other points, like plant health, fauna choice, hardscape choice, technical difficulty (as I say, the height of the tank is mentioned in one of the comments).

Congrats to the guy


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## zig (20 Nov 2008)

GWU said:
			
		

> First of all, congra. zig, your idea is great,  I also impressed when I saw at the 2008 ADA presentation at Tokyo, on that time Amano already said that he give you the highest mark. If you are not saying that it is different tank, I just think it was two different stages of the same tank photo from different focal length lens.... lol.
> 
> The natural aquarium style is really dominate the trend, however, there are still a lot of aquatic plant lover they like to keep the dutch style. Actually, for a competition which involve human judgement is not always fair. We know something behind the marking scheme for the past because we know the judges and know's what happen behind. I am not saying that who's fault but if you think that one of the judge only give those tank he/she like with very high mark and the rest mark zero, what do you think..... It make the whole mark scrore deviated.



Thanks Gary Wu and welcome to UKAPS!

Nah I'm not saying they are two different layouts, one layout is clearly based on the other, the idea is more developed in second tank that did well at ADA. Both tanks were grown out at 2 different times about 6 months apart in different aquariums, the smaller one is 54l I did that one first, and the other tank is 97l, thats the one I entered into IALPC 2008.

I knew it was odd in retrospect to enter both tanks into this competition but I didn't think to much about it beforehand tbh, I didn't have a great plan here. I thought I had entered them into the same small tank catagory in the competition, I didnt think they would give me two different prizes in two different catagorys!! that was a shock!! I thought if I was lucky enough they (the judges) may pick one or the other to win a prize in the same catagory, not both. I certainly wasn't expecting both to be chosen in different catagories!! I entered both tanks thinking they were entered into the same small tank catagory. I thought the cutoff limit was 100 litres for that catagory. It was a genunine mistake on my behalf, I don't think I would have entered both otherwise, I wouldn't go out of my way to annoy or pee people off. But I'm pretty sure 100 litres was mentioned as the cutoff point in the "guidelines section" which has now disappeared from the website and thats what mislead me. TBH I didn't have high hopes in this competition at all because AGA can be so different than the ADA competition in judging terms. I also don't think this realistic style of aquascaping appeals to a lot of people, so opinions will always be divided on that, and for that reason I thought it would not fare so well. So I am genuinely very surprised it did so well at all. Would I enter them both tanks again knowing what I know now? the answer would probably be no. Ow well  :?  

Thanks to everyone for the good wishes!!


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## LondonDragon (20 Nov 2008)

zig said:
			
		

> So I am genuinely very surprised it did so well at all. Would I enter them both tanks again knowing what I know now? the answer would probably be no. Ow well  :?
> Thanks to everyone for the good wishes!!


Your tanks are AWSOME and trully deserves the prize, the slopes and rock formation are great even though its not a style that I am a fan off, just seen other that are not up to scratch in my opinion and won a place in the top 3 also thats all. But to be honest when I looked at both entries they looked very much the same hehe but I see what you were trying to do, try on a small tank first and then go larger. Worked very well in both counts


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## George Farmer (20 Nov 2008)

I was surprised how some of the aquascapes were scored and I'm sure other judges thought the same about some of my scores...  

That's the nature of the beast.

Interestingly, my scores were similar to Mr Amano's in most cases, so I guess we have similar taste.  Or more likely, my aquascaping taste has been influenced by his work.

It's worth re-iterating that Mr Amano personally scored Peter's Mountainscape V2 above EVERYTHING else in the ADA.  Think about that for a minute.  It's a HUGE acheivement.  He mentioned this to me in an email whilst we were discussing The Best of Show for the AGA.

The questions begs - what next from Peter?!  No pressure...


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## LondonDragon (20 Nov 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I was surprised how some of the aquascapes were scored and I'm sure other judges thought the same about some of my scores...


How long did it take you to go through every entry? Just curious


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## GreenNeedle (20 Nov 2008)

I think the appeal of Peter's tanks are the simplicity of appearance of them.

Whereas most Iwagumis have a rock formation in them with several rocks pointing this way or that way Peter's give the appearance that under the surface they are in fact joined just like mountains really are.

Add to that he has basically used just 1 type of plant makes the sense of scale incredible.  I remember commenting when I first saw them that it reminded me of Lord of the rings....as in I could picture the scapes being photos of mountains in NZ with forests climbing them.  Superb.

Coming from someone who constantly criticises nature/Iwagumi style for its 'samey samey' productions it means I am giving a huge compliment to him that I like them so much.  Fresh, new, original, different and beautiful.

A lot of the 'nature' ones are starting to look like model railway scenery which is a pity because the 'gimmick' is starting to overtake the art here in my opinion.

AC


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## planter (20 Nov 2008)

I was a bit surprised there werent more UK entries to be honest, There have been some great scapes posted on this forum that were worthy of an entry. I guess its a bit daunting going public like that and perhaps there is a temptation to wait as 'My next scape will be better' or 'this scape is not good enough' but I cant help feeling there is so much to gain from the constructive criticism of the judges that it has to be worth entering. I counted 9 UK entries from only 3 aquascapers ? (did I count right?) , would be great to see a few more in there next year. get your thinking caps on people!


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## beeky (20 Nov 2008)

I was going to submit my tank this year, but time got the better of me. I kept holding on so it would look better, but in the end life got in the way, I couldn't do as much maintenance as I wanted and the tank started to deteriorate. It's on the way up again now, but of course it's too late. When I see some tanks in there though, I still think mine is better!

I didn't think I would achieve any kind of status but I wanted to bolster the numbers a bit. Maybe next year.

One area I would really love to contribute to is the biotope. It's seems very....abused!


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## planter (20 Nov 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> I was going to submit my tank this year, but time got the better of me. I kept holding on so it would look better, but in the end life got in the way, I couldn't do as much maintenance as I wanted and the tank started to deteriorate. It's on the way up again now, but of course it's too late. When I see some tanks in there though, I still think mine is better!
> 
> I didn't think I would achieve any kind of status but I wanted to bolster the numbers a bit. Maybe next year.
> 
> One area I would really love to contribute to is the biotope. It's seems very....abused!



Just photograph it and save it for next year! Theres one UK entry all ready   
I noticed the biotope section was a little lack lustre too .... but I was keeping that one to myself     perhaps an Oppurtunity for a UK winner ??


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## Fred Dulley (20 Nov 2008)

Just imagine if someone did a biotope of the Thames with those Seahorses that were documented as breeding.
Oh wait, AGA is freshwater only isn't it..


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## Goodygumdrops (20 Nov 2008)

That mountainscape was superb and everyone knew it was as soon as they saw it.A bit like Luis' tank.I agree about the third place tank.Could have been superb,fantastic piece of wood.....if,it had been clearer,and,the planting was imo,a little off.Don't get me wrong,if it had been spot on it would have been superb,you could see that,but it wasn't spot on.
BUT,it was a bit more out there than some of the others,dya think they give marks for vision?Even if it doesn't quite hit the mark?


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## beeky (21 Nov 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> I noticed the biotope section was a little lack lustre too .... but I was keeping that one to myself     perhaps an Oppurtunity for a UK winner ??



Maybe it could be a UK speciality?!

I agree with some of the comments on that third place tank, but the comment on the fern being too central for a focal point I think isn't quite true as, for me, it's the moss at the front that is the focal point and the eye is led upwards. That's the thing about art though isn't it? Everything is very subjective.


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## planter (21 Nov 2008)

third place didnt cut it for me ... nice peice of bog wood though


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## George Farmer (21 Nov 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> I counted 9 UK entries from only 3 aquascapers ? (did I count right?) , would be great to see a few more in there next year. get your thinking caps on people!



You, Dan and Tom entered from the UK - that was it, yes.  Don't know about 9 aquascapes though, as Dan entered just the one.

There were 12 UK entrants in the ADA...


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## planter (21 Nov 2008)

of course Yeah I was counting Zigs! sorry Zig.


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## zig (10 Jul 2009)

Sorry to drag this old thread back from the dead but this has been bothering me for the past year!!  

Anyway it turns out that the guidelines issued by AGA are misleading, I knew I wasnt imagining things, they took down the guidelines once last years contest was over so I could not verify what the actual guidelines were. Now I know they use the word "may" but I still find this quite misleading, it caught me out badly anyway.

In the guidelines it gives the impression that the small tank catagory is for tanks under 100l but in reality the small tank catagory is for tanks under 70l.

Anyway thats what I read last year and presumed that that was the case, small tank catagory <100l of which both of my entries would have qualified for the same catagory, 54l and 97l.

Guidelines are here

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2009.cgi?&op=showpage&name=guidelines-entrance

Reality here:-  Aquatic garden small  < 70L

http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2008.cgi?&op=ishowcase&category=0&vol=0

Just wanted to clear that up, personal thing really.


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## Stu Worrall (10 Jul 2009)

very misleading that zig.  small is <70L and medium is 70L ~ 200L according to the indexes in the links.  I expect they probably copied the guidelines from a previous year and forgot to change it.  Did it disadvantage you at all with your entries?


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## zig (10 Jul 2009)

stuworrall said:
			
		

> very misleading that zig.  small is <70L and medium is 70L ~ 200L according to the indexes in the links.  I expect they probably copied the guidelines from a previous year and forgot to change it.  Did it disadvantage you at all with your entries?



Hiya Stu, well it depends on how you look at it, that could be a loaded question.

It disadvantaged me insofar as I didnt want to enter the medium tank catagory and certainly didnt expect to win! anyway just wanted to set the record straight on my behalf.


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## Stu Worrall (10 Jul 2009)

ah yes, sorry i forgot youd won the two  i get what you mean now


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