# New to Sand and in need of some direction



## Pearpearl (12 Jul 2019)

Hello my fellow hobbyists.

I am new to sand as a substrate and I'm very confused about what type to go for. Most importantly is that it's inert because my stocking (Discus) are sensitive to changes to PH. But what I'm finding frustrating is the "blown around in the current factor.

I have a 130Gal tank and use power heads and an FX6 for circulation. Both the return outlet and PH are closer to the surface of the tank but I'm worried that once in the tank the sand will be constantly displaced. 

Any advice would be grand. 

Thanks


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## Keith GH (12 Jul 2019)

Pearpearl


Pearpearl said:


> Most importantly is that it's inert because my stocking (Discus) are sensitive to changes to PH. But what I'm finding frustrating is the "blown around in the current factor.



My question to you is why use it?   I assume being a Discus it will also be a planted tank.  
I would then suggest a 1-3mm natural gravel and use a quality Fert Tabs.

Keith


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## alto (12 Jul 2019)

Pearpearl said:


> have a 130Gal tank and use power heads and an FX6 for circulation.


Discus are not great fans of current - add a couple sponge filters and they’re happy like ...

Their body shape is a clue 

ADG does some fantastic hardscape only aquariums
https://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/


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## Aqua sobriquet (12 Jul 2019)

A friend of mine had Silver Sand in his 250L tank with good flow and never had any problems.


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## dw1305 (12 Jul 2019)

Hi all,





Pearpearl said:


> I am new to sand as a substrate and I'm very confused about what type to go for. ..........But what I'm finding frustrating is the "blown around in the current factor.


I'm a sand fan. Any dead leaves, or faeces, sits on top of it and can be syphoned out. 

Having said that I'd definitely have a sponge pre-filter on the intake, if sand gets into the filter it will cause rapid impeller etc wear.





alto said:


> Discus are not great fans of current


Same for me, I'd  wouldn't want a whirl-pool effect. Lots of water tun-over is fine as long as the flow is diffused. 





Pearpearl said:


> Most importantly is that it's inert.


 You just want 100% silica sand, it won't raise hardness, it is totally inert. Pool filter sand would be ideal. 

I'm really keen on <"Structural Leaf litter"> as well. 





Pearpearl said:


> ....because my stocking (Discus) are sensitive to changes to PH.


 Changes in pH is a bit of a funny one, pH is a really strange measurement, you want soft water for Discus and that will always show variations in pH. This is totally natural and exactly what happens in nature. There is a more complete explanation in <"TDS and remineralising...">.

I'm not a Discus keeper but I like a planted tank for all "black-water" fish. A lot of what you read about Discus in the wild about them living in water with no aquatic plants etc isn't really true. Discus are collected at low water, because you can't collect them otherwise, once the water rises they've dispersed through the flooded forest, which is a true wetland, just with very big plants.

Have a look at this thread on <"Apistogramma forums">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Pearpearl (12 Jul 2019)

Hey guys 

I don't have a whirlpool effect in the tank. An FX6 and a mid power range power head is not going to create anything more than the gentlest of currents. Right now the flow is just enough to prevent dead spots. I tried quoting all of you but for some reason it's not working for me?

Does anyone have any links to sand I can purchase that fit my requirements?


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## dw1305 (12 Jul 2019)

Hi all, 





Pearpearl said:


> Does anyone have any links to sand I can purchase that fit my requirements?


Should be a few on <"Amazon">.  

If you shop around you can probably get 25 Kg delivered for less then £20.

I like the finer 0.4 - 0.8 mm grade (16/30 grade), but you can get 0.8 - 2 mm (8/16 grade) as well.

cheers Darrel


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## jkh13 (13 Jul 2019)

Take a look at these sands, they should all be inert since it's a shop specialising for shrimp keeping.

https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/252-sand


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## Pearpearl (13 Jul 2019)

Thanks guys

@dw1305 the sand you linked me to doesn't specify whether or not it's inert but the grade info is crucial so thanks

@jkh13 I don't have the grade size with any of the sand in the link.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Jul 2019)

dw1305 said:


> You just want 100% silica sand, it won't raise hardness, it is totally inert. Pool filter sand would be ideal.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Jul 2019)

jkh13 said:


> Take a look at these sands, they should all be inert since it's a shop specialising for shrimp keeping.
> 
> https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/252-sand


Not all inert. Their coral sand for instance, raises hardness and pH, for when that's what you need.


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## Pearpearl (13 Jul 2019)

Finally got quotes to work



sparkyweasel said:


> Not all inert. Their coral sand for instance, raises hardness and pH, for when that's what you need.



I've exhausted amazon and haven't found a single product that is the grade I need and inert with some reviews. It's harder than it seems and I'm usually really good at looking for things but this seems like some type of conundrum.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Jul 2019)

What grade are you after?


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## Pearpearl (13 Jul 2019)

The larger grade or as @dw1305 put it "0.8 - 2 mm (8/16 grade)" basically anything that does stir as easily as I've seen in some youtube vids.


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## dw1305 (13 Jul 2019)

Hi all, 





Pearpearl said:


> whether or not it's inert


All the filter sands should be inert, the only thing you have to look out for is that they are "silica sand", because a lot of people are selling reclaimed glass. It doesn't matter for a sand filter whether its quartz or glass, but it looks a bit strange in the tank. 

cheers Darrel


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## Pearpearl (19 Jul 2019)

I'm still yet to find a product that comes close. I need about 25KG if anyone has a link to sand which is of the heavier/larger grain please post it here.


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## alto (19 Jul 2019)

https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/gravelsand-105-c.asp

Just call or visit


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## sparkyweasel (19 Jul 2019)

No reviews, good or bad, but you could give it a try.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trustleaf-...&pd_rd_r=786d2716-7d0b-4739-95df-7c79a8ce5894


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## Pearpearl (20 Jul 2019)

Hi @sparkyweasel 

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately I searched the vendors site but found no sand which is lighter in colour.


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## X3NiTH (20 Jul 2019)

How about this sand from Sika it's pure kiln dried Quartzite (SiO2), largest grade is 0.6-1.2mm, here's the MSDS for it. Looking at an image of the finer grade it looks quite light in colour.


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## Pearpearl (20 Jul 2019)

Hello @X3NiTH 

I have actually looked at this sand from a facebook group and was told it raised PH so I've ruled that particular brand out. I've never, tried sand before and had no idea how daunting the process of finding one that's suitable is. I really need to get a easy to clean light substrate to help balance my tank. Balance in this instance is a reduction in Nitrates. I've already got it down to 5ppm between 6 feeds within 3 days but that's another point entirely.


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## alto (20 Jul 2019)

You’re thinking that a sand bed will reduce nitrates?

While this is true, it depends upon anaerobic denitrifcation - re the deep sand beds as used in some reef tanks, also slow flow sand filters 

Adding a nitrate binding media to your filtration system is likely more efficient
Water changes, manual or automated are also an effective method 

Somewhat confused that you’re overlooking the Hugo Kamishi fine gravel/coarse sands


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## Pearpearl (21 Jul 2019)

No @alto 

My apologies for the confusion. I don't think sand reduces nitrates, plants do. These discus eat a lot and in 3 days they've already pushed the nitrates high. I've managed to drop the nitrate via plants. Namely pressurized CO2, TMC liquid ferts (without nitrate) and plants. I was using API liquid test (I know they're not a precise as some more scientific tests) and the nitrates were somewhere between 20-40 which I wasn't happy about.

I bought about 60 Vals and they've reduced the Nitrates from 20+ppm to 5ppm in  the same 3 day period. But my tank is bare bottom and so to achieve that I had to glue each val to some Manzanita wood. The problem is these plants grow quickly and as they do they become unstuck. A week ago I had about 5 val plants at the surface. Today between 10-20 so I need to anchor these plants in some sand. 

Light sand because the pigeon blood and blue diamond discus try to adapt to their background and are turning dark. Also as stated before it needs to be inert and not super fine because super fine sand is easily displaced. 

Side note: I watched my Bolivian Rams spawn today in the corner of my bare bottom tank. I'd say there are at least 100 eggs. It's their first ever spawn and they're quite fearless. The 7 discus I have want absolutely zero problems with them and have vacated the area but my amano shrimp can taste them in the water and keep trying to find it and are taking damage in the process.

So yeah. Light, not too fine, and inert sand is what I'm still looking for. I just never knew it'd be this difficult lol.


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## Andrew Butler (21 Jul 2019)

Just offering suggestions, not thought through!
I know what you mean about sand getting blown around and the only way I found to truly stop this problem was to go for a small gravel.
Unsure how you have inlets/outlets but another way I found to vastly reduce the problem was using a spraybar.
Maybe do away with the powerheads if you have a simple layout and add another filter instead?
Unipac do some 2-4mm maybe a little too course from what I'm reading though.
http://www.unipacpet.co.uk/aquatic/natural-gravel/
They also detail some of their sand grain sizes if this helps? - probably not looking at it!
http://www.unipacpet.co.uk/aquatic/aquarium-sand/


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## Pearpearl (21 Jul 2019)

Thanks @Andrew Butler I'll take a look. Yetserday I cam across JBL sand. Super expensive but I was going to give it a try until I recognized that they didn't have any info on grain size. I then went to youtube and saw this...

The first 4 seconds are sufficient.


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## Edvet (21 Jul 2019)

LFS here in the netherlands sell "riversand", natural sand with grains ranging from 1-5 mm.  Tried a local LFS yet?


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## Pearpearl (21 Jul 2019)

Edvet said:


> LFS here in the netherlands sell "riversand", natural sand with grains ranging from 1-5 mm. Tried a local LFS yet?



Do they ship internationally. At this point I'll take an inflated shipping price just so long as I can get some sand!


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## alto (21 Jul 2019)

Have you looked at the HK options?
(there should be some in local shops for you to examine)

ADA offers a range of sizes in most of their gravels ( DOOA “Tropical River Sand” is a great size and color for what you want, but I’d look for a cheaper option)


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## Andrew Butler (22 Jul 2019)

@Pearpearl have you thought about getting one that has a few too many large pieces in and running it through a grader?
Just an example of the kind of thing I mean below although there are loads out there with different sized mesh.
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01H2T6O0G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Pearpearl said:


> At this point I'll take an inflated shipping price just so long as I can get some sand!


Just remember the inflated UK import duties too!


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## Kev_M (22 Jul 2019)

Just get the sand Darrel linked you to at the start of the thread. I've used it (from different suppliers but the same stuff) on so many tanks for many years. It's inert, very clean, doesn't compact, isn't sharp, and is heavy enough not to be blown around.

If you check Ebay you'll find it a few quid cheaper. Just make sure you confirm with the seller that it's the light variant (there's a darker one in the same size that isn't anywhere near as nice).


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## Pearpearl (22 Jul 2019)

Hi @Kev_M 

I have no idea who Darrel is but if you have used it and can vouch for it then, pleaase re-link me and I'll give it another glance.


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## Kev_M (22 Jul 2019)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TM-AQUATIX-PREMIUM-SWIMMING-SILICA/dp/B07FFDVFNG/

You can find it a bit cheaper on ebay. There are two variants that come in this grain size, one is a fairly dark brown, the other is much lighter. The lighter one is what you want; it's very clean as well.


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## Pearpearl (23 Jul 2019)

@Kev_M 

I pulled the trigger on the sand you linked above. Is it possible for you to post some pics of your tank with this sand in it for future reference?


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## Kev_M (23 Jul 2019)

Unfortunately not as my current display tank is empty. I checked through my gallery for pictures of my old set ups but couldn't find any with that sand pictured (apart from a couple of dry hardscapes I was playing about with). Funnily enough I have a few pictures of when I used the darker sand I mentioned in my earlier post. I've got a new bag here waiting to go into my latest display so I'll post some pictures of that in once I've got around to finishing it.

I'll have a dig around on the PC later and hopefully I'll be able to find something because I've used it in at least 5 different tanks over the years.


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## Harry H (23 Jul 2019)

Pearpearl said:


> @Kev_M
> 
> I pulled the trigger on the sand you linked above. Is it possible for you to post some pics of your tank with this sand in it for future reference?




Please take some photos when you get it. Thanks!


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## Kev_M (24 Jul 2019)

Best I can do at the moment, I'm afraid. It's from an old Malawi tank I had.


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## dw1305 (29 Jul 2019)

Hi all, 





Pearpearl said:


> I have no idea who Darrel is


Cruelly snubbed. 

This is the finer grade sand in use, from <"Water lettuce....">.



 

cheers Darrel


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## Pearpearl (30 Jul 2019)

@dw1305 Nope not intentionally lol

I will post pics of the sand later today. 

It's working brilliantly although it took an absolute age to clean before going in. Doesn't move around in the flow and when raised quickly sinks making cleaning very easy. Best of all, it's completely inert!


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