# Gurgling pump on a sump



## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

guys

Quick help needed, got a signature 900 setup with the sump. It's my first sump system and its gurgling a lot. Any tips to help before the better half kills me?

A journal will be following shortly, unless of course it gets thrown out the window....

Rich


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## foxfish (7 Nov 2015)

I don't know anything about a signature 900 so you would have to give a bit more info about where the gurgling is coming from?


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## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

foxfish said:


> I don't know anything about a signature 900 so you would have to give a bit more info about where the gurgling is coming from?



Yep good point, where the water comes out of the tank and back into the sump there is a pipe that takes the overflow out. The noise is from there. If I pull the return pipe out the sump it goes quiet ( except for the noise of the water hitting the sump surface) I am assuming it's air sucking in given the amount of bubbles in the chamber but wondering how to fix.


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## Greenfinger2 (7 Nov 2015)

Hi Hope this helps ?? Coped from the WWW 

I've had this response from TMC:


"Firstly, thank you for purchasing a Signature Aquarium set. I hear from Helen that you are having issues with noise from drain from your tank?

Due to the setup of the aquarium there will always be some water noise but there are a few things that you can do that may help.



First of all, is ensure that you are delivering approx 580 litres per hour of flow to the tank at the height of the drain. The recommended pump is a V2 PowerPump 1500. If you are using a different pump to this, it may be putting just a little bit too much water down the drain, causing slurping as the air is sucked down as the pipe creates a siphon. If using a V2 PowerPump 1500, use the flow adjuster to click back 2 clicks when clean. On my setup I found this the perfect level of flow in/out of the tank.



The second thing is to discharge the water from the drain pipe a few inches under water in the first chamber of the sump. Mine goes into a filter sock but I don’t think this will make much difference. Doing so may cause the same air pressure issues that we get when applying too much flow. This will mean the pipe may still want to suck air. To alleviate this, pierce a 6-8mm hole in the drain pipe, approx 6 inches above the water level, hole facing outwards over the sump. Ensure all piping travels smoothly too. I did the above on my own Signature aquarium and actually managed to get a very quiet running system.



Simply, these few fixes should get you working a bit quieter. As the system beds in and the pipes grow bacteria, the system will naturally quieten down a bit anyway. However as with most sumped system you will never have it 100% silent due to pumping water up and dropping it back down again!



I hope this of use to you and may I wish you all the best for your future aquarium success."

I'm going to try the hole in the pipe idea


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## jagillham (7 Nov 2015)

Some photos will help, but essentially as they've said you need to find the equilibrium point.

Is it one pipe from the tank into the sump or two?


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## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

Cool thanks, anyone any idea what the logic is behind making the hole, I assume it reduces pressure and allows air to flow into pipe further down the stack and therefore removes sucking air from top of tank. I assume water won't flow out of the hole?


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## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

Will try and do tomorrow, too late to be faffing with hosting pics. There is a pipe from the back of the tank into the sump and then a pipe back into the tank from the pump...


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## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

Side of tank shows drain




Drain from front




Which drains into the sump. It falls in and isn't drawn in so its syphoned out.


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## jagillham (7 Nov 2015)

Looks like the drain isn't below the water line, so it is dragging in air. You've also too much water in the sump I'd say. If the pump stops, that is going to overflow by the looks of it?


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## foxfish (7 Nov 2015)

Wow is that a commercial set up! I mean did the tank come fitted in that manor?


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## jagillham (7 Nov 2015)

foxfish said:


> Wow is that a commercial set up! I mean did the tank come fitted in that manor?



Apparently so!

http://www.uk-aquatics.com/product/tmc-signature-900-aquarium-set-90cmx45cmx45cm-charcoal-black/

To my mind the design is fatally flawed. Unless you can exactly equal the out/in flow, it is not going to work. Needs a second overflow pipe really.


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## nduli (7 Nov 2015)

jagillham said:


> Looks like the drain isn't below the water line, so it is dragging in air. You've also too much water in the sump I'd say. If the pump stops, that is going to overflow by the looks of it?



Yes isn't below water line as I'd turned off pump, it was 80% below waterline before hand however appears most salty tanks on YouTube run the same way.


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## jagillham (8 Nov 2015)

To get rid of that gurgle it needs to be completely submerged really. You could add more pipe so the water is extracted lower in the tank. Trouble being that if the pump fails the tank would attempt to syphon out to that level. This _could _be solved with a non-return valve.

I'm really not happy with the single pipe to the sump. A blockage in that pipe could result in a flood. I'd be interested in seeing the levels of the tank and sump when running.


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## foxfish (8 Nov 2015)

Well I think you will need to regulate the flow so that it never reaches the top of the overflow, this will allow the water to flow without causing air locks.
In other words you cant let the pipe completely fill with water, if the flow only reaches half way up the pipe it should be very quiet but you wont have much flow!
If you drill a 5mm hole in the top of the elbow you can then insert a short piece of 6mm airline to allow in some air if the pipe does become full of water.
To be honest, in my opinion  that is a bad design but, I think you might be able to modify the outlet by fitting an overflow box on the inside of the tank & then dropping the return pipe into the box.
A simple mod in theory.....  but as I cant really see any details from your pictures it is difficult to say for sure.
The most scary aspect of that design (as jagillham points out) is if the pipe becomes blocked with - say a leaf or a dead fish, then your will have a serious problem!
Unfortunately I cant produce any diagrams until I get home later today....


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## nduli (8 Nov 2015)

Ok thanks, I'm not keen on making massive mods to the tank but welcome any help. I may try the hole in the pipe first, I don't think I am supposed to fill over the outlet completely and create a full flow because when I switched off the pump the tank syphoned into the sump and there was a moment where I thought it would overflow.....


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## nduli (8 Nov 2015)

Some progress on the research today, had it running much quieter today but I've done something and it's reverted back to being very noisy. 

I went to cockfields in Oldham as I have seen a salty sig 900 running there. Spoke to the manager and it can be tricky to get right. The one in the shop is silent....grr. 

Tips to fix.

Turn pump right down. - Done. 
Insert ball valve in drain pipe to reduce draw from drain. - Not done, no one had a 1inch ball valve for sale in the 3 shops I went in. 
Create a hole in the pipe - found further details and pics but not done yet. See below
Wait - time apparently helps. This won't be an option. 

Link to guide on how to fix.

here and here


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## jagillham (8 Nov 2015)

None of the solutions are ideal, mainly because you need the exact same output from the pump into the tank as what is flowing back out.

If the pump is more than the drain, you'll slowly find the tank getting more full. If it is less, you slowly fill the sump. Even once the sweet spot is found, things change. Clogging of the pump / drain over time changes the flow from each.

I think the 'hole' mod is the best solution without more drastic action.


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## DTL (9 Nov 2015)

Google durso overflow


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## ian_m (9 Nov 2015)

Google "bean overflow".


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## nduli (9 Nov 2015)

So finally plucked up the courage to drill a hole in my down pipe, placed a 90degree airline connector in the hole and attached some airline as described in the link above and it's fixed the gurgling and got it to a very very much Improved position, tank level risen also to cover the outlet cover. So very happy. Only issue now is the noise from the pump. Lol I am sure it was silent when I put it in. I'll have it out tomorrow and give it a once over, check the bearings etc.


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