# should i mix my own ferts?



## Ben M (26 Feb 2010)

hi, i have a 4ft, 216l moderately planted tank. for the last few months i have been using 5mls of TPN+ daily, but i would like to have a  go at mixing my own ferts. but i have a few questions... well, quite a lot really.    

1.i am assuming that it is cheaper to mix my own dry ferts, but about how much difference would there be from the TPN+?

2.do i need any special equipment to measure out ingredients? if so, what would i need, and where can i buy them?

3.do i have to mix the dry ferts daily, or could i mix them weekly, and then dose daily?

4.what chemicals/ingredients do i need, and where can i buy them, (preferably cheaply)?

5.what mix/recipe should i use as a guide?

6.will mixing my own ferts allow the plants to grow better because i can alter amounts of each ingredients to prevent deficiencies? 

i think that's all. sorry for waffling on a bit lol.

cheers


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## AdAndrews (26 Feb 2010)

I made my own, following JamesC's guide, i'll find a link..


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## AdAndrews (26 Feb 2010)

here http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

and then the best one to use is method 3:

DIY TPN+ (3)
48g Potassium Nitrate
2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
5g EDTA Chelated Trace Elements Mix
500ml distilled water


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## Ben M (26 Feb 2010)

thanks.  
 any answers to the other Q's? 

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (26 Feb 2010)

Hi 

i have answered your questions in blue text.



			
				pest control said:
			
		

> hi, i have a 4ft, 216l moderately planted tank. for the last few months i have been using 5mls of TPN+ daily, but i would like to have a  go at mixing my own ferts. but i have a few questions... well, quite a lot really.
> 
> 1.i am assuming that it is cheaper to mix my own dry ferts, but about how much difference would there be from the TPN+?
> Yes mixing your own fertz would be cheaper than buying off the shelf fertz eg. Tropica fertz or Easylife fertz. Once you have mixed your own fertz the concentration of fertz will be greater than the others. Off the shelf fertz usually state a weekly dosage - but you usually end up dosing daily.
> ...




Regards
Paul


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## Ben M (27 Feb 2010)

cheers for the answers, i'll have a look at the links as well  

cheers


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## Ben M (27 Feb 2010)

hi, just looked at the links, but the aqua essentials was a bit confusing. there are so many to choose from  
will using the EI method make my plants grow faster, or do i need to add co2? my parents won't let me have a pressurised system as the tank is in my room, and i have heard that the yeast way is unreliable, and i don't want to spend loads on liquid carbon. are the pressurised systems available in shops 100% safe, and what is the cheapest one for my tank? 

sorry for getting a bit off topic

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (27 Feb 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, just looked at the links, but the aqua essentials was a bit confusing. there are so many to choose from
> will using the EI method make my plants grow faster, or do i need to add co2? my parents won't let me have a pressurised system as the tank is in my room, and i have heard that the yeast way is unreliable, and i don't want to spend loads on liquid carbon. are the pressurised systems available in shops 100% safe, and what is the cheapest one for my tank?
> 
> sorry for getting a bit off topic
> ...




E.I will not make your plants grow faster but will give them all the nutrients required to sustain good growth. The main ingredients required for E.I are as follows:

Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week 
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

The above fertz 
KNo3
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/potassi ... p-522.html
KH2Po4
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/mono-po ... p-521.html
MgSo4
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/magnesi ... p-554.html or Epsom Salts

As for Co2 the yeast set up its unreliable, you would be better trying convince your parents to allow you to have a proper system - there are system available like the attached http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/tmc-aqu ... -3416.html or http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/dd-comp ... p-649.html - people have boughts these, then found out that it would have been better to have purchased this http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/jbl-pro ... -3257.html or they have bought seperate items: regulator with solenoid valve, FE bottle, co2 tubing etc, if you do you homework items required to make up a co2 system can be bought cheaper than buying a ready make system like the one above.

Have a read at the attached viewtopic.php?f=37&t=10024&start=0 and trawl through the Co2 / carbon dioxide threads to give you a better idea.

Plants in the garden have plenty of Co2 around them but when they are within the tank there is a shortage as they are surrounded by H2o (water) there is some co2 within the water column - fish emit co2, the co2 is convert back to o2 back the plants and the fish use the o2 and emit co2, but to sustain good growth which will reduce the risk of algae growth its recommended that co2 is injected into the tank purely for plant growth.

Regards
Paul.


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## Steve Smith (27 Feb 2010)

Fluid Sensor also sell dry ferts, which come in a good container (and are marginally cheaper):

http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/zen/in ... h=93_65_69

I've used dry ferts from both and both are equally good quality.  I do prefer the plastic screw capped tubs that FluidSensor sell their ferts in though


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## Ben M (28 Feb 2010)

thanks all, i'll read through all of the links, and get back to you  

cheers


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## Ben M (1 Mar 2010)

hi, i think i get the gist now. but i'm not really sure how to work out how to dose each different ingredient. and how much do the scales cost, and where can i buy them?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (1 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, i think i get the gist now. but i'm not really sure how to work out how to dose each different ingredient. and how much do the scales cost, and where can i buy them?
> 
> cheers



instead of adding grams per day - why not knock up a 1 week supply or a 2 week supply

E.g. KNo3 - 1/4 (0.25) of a teaspoon per day, so for a weeks solutions 7 x 0.25  = 1.75 teaspoons or for a 2 week solution = 3.0 teaspoons and add to 500 mls of water.

if you want send me your tank stats and I will work it out for you.

Regards
paul


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## Ben M (2 Mar 2010)

cheers, i'll pm you


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (8 Mar 2010)

The item below show the E.I dosing regime for a 20 US gallon tank - courtsey of Ceg (Clive)

Sunday â€“ 50% or more Water Change then dose [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [Â½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Monday â€“ 1/16 teaspoon CSM+B
Tuesday - [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [Â½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Wednesday - 1/16 teaspoon CSM+B
Thursday - [3/16 teaspoon KNO3] + [1/16 teaspoon KH2PO4] + [Â½ teaspoon MgSO4]
Friday â€“ Rest
Saturday - Rest

Here is your quantity of fertz required for your tank.

So lets make this easy:
Overall the following powder ingredients are required for a 20 us gallon tank.
KNo3 - 3/16 of a tps is required and dosed 3 times during the week
KH2Po4 - 1/16 of a tps is required and dosed 3 times during the week
MgSo4 - 1/2 a tps is required and dosed 3 times during the week
CSM-B (Trace Mix) 1/16 of a tps is required and dosed 2 times during the week

Therefore for a one week dosage for a 20 US gallon tank
KNo3 = 9/16 tsp - so round it down to 8/16 or 1/2 tps 
KH2Po4 = 3/16 tps - so round it up to 1/4 of a tps 
MgSo4 = 1.5 tps - leave this as it is 
CSM-B = 1/8 tps - leave this as it is.

Now your tank is 216 litre which when converted is a 57 US gallon tank which is approx 3 x bigger than the above, so 3 x times the powderd ingredients - dont get that this a for a 1 week dosage.
KNo3 - 1/2 tps x 3 = 1.5 tps
KH2Po4 - 1/4 x 3 = 3/4 tps
MgSo4 - 1.5 x 3 = 4.5 tps
CSM-B - 1/8 x 3 = 3/8 tps 

So for a 4 week dosage multiply everthing by 4:
KNo3 - 1.5 x 4 = 6tps
KH2Po4 - 3/4 x 4 = 3 tps
MgSo4 - 4.5 x 4 = 18 tps
All of the above to be mixed with 600 mls of warm tap water and add to tank 3 x per week on Mon, Tues and Wed at a dose rate of 50 mls per dose

CSM-B - 3/8 tps - round this up to 1/4 x 4 = 1 tps 
the above to be mixed with 200 mls of tap water and to tank on add to tank 2 x per Tues and Thurs at a dose rate of 25 mls per dose.

Hope this helps 
regards
Paul.


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## Ben M (9 Mar 2010)

thanks, so do i mix:
 [6tsp (or 28.5g) of KNO3(Potassium Nitrate)]
 with [3tsp (or 14.25g) of KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)]
 with [18tsp(or 85.4g) of MGSO4(Magnesium Sulphate)]
 with 600 mls of warm water?

1. must the water be kept warm? it will be in the tank cabinet, in my room. will that be ok? 
2. must the 600mls of water be distilled water, or can i use tap water?
3. do i mix all three chemicals together in the same 600mls of water, or do they need 600mls each?
4. should i start at the full dose, or should i build it up? and if so, how should i build it up? (ATM i use TPN+, so will it be necessary to build it up?

and then do i mix 1tsp CSM-B (4.75g) with 200 mls of water?

1. where can i buy the scales from to weigh out the chemicals.
2. should i dose the above over 4wks in the regime that flyfisherman advised?
3.  what is CSM-B?
4. do i need to add iron, as i have a couple of amazon swords?

cheers for the help


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## CeeJay (10 Mar 2010)

Hi pest control

Flyfisherman offers good advice   



			
				pest control said:
			
		

> thanks, so do i mix:
> [6tsp (or 28.5g) of KNO3(Potassium Nitrate)]
> with [3tsp (or 14.25g) of KH2PO4 (Mono Potassium Phosphate)]
> with [18tsp(or 85.4g) of MGSO4(Magnesium Sulphate)]
> with 600 mls of warm water?


Yes, but cold water will do.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 1. must the water be kept warm?


No


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> it will be in the tank cabinet, in my room. will that be ok?


Yes, that's where I keep mine.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 2. must the 600mls of water be distilled water, or can i use tap water?


Tap water will be fine.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 3. do i mix all three chemicals together in the same 600mls of water, or do they need 600mls each?


All mixed together in the one 600mls of water.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 4. should i start at the full dose,


Most definitely, yes.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> and then do i mix 1tsp CSM-B (4.75g) with 200 mls of water?


Yes


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 1. where can i buy the scales from to weigh out the chemicals.


Use teaspoons, it's much quicker. Asda, 99p for a set that go down to 1/8th.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 2. should i dose the above over 4wks in the regime that flyfisherman advised?


I certainly would. In fact that's what I'm doing right now.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 3. what is CSM-B?


Trace elements.


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> 4. do i need to add iron, as i have a couple of amazon swords?


Iron should already be in the Trace in sufficient quantities. If you see Iron deficiencies in your plants, just up the dose of Trace elements.


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## Ben M (10 Mar 2010)

thanks, it all seems clearer now.   flyfisherman has been really helpful.   just one more question ATM, is the copper in the trace elements harmful to inverts such as cherry shrimp, and if so, is there an invert safe alternative?

cheers


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## CeeJay (10 Mar 2010)

Hi pest control

The copper in the Trace is so small it will not harm your shrimp. 
I have shrimp in my hi tech and I'm using these Trace Elements , and my shrimp are fine. 
In fact they are breeding like crazy   .


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## Ben M (11 Mar 2010)

thanks.


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## Ben M (13 Mar 2010)

hi, on the link it says that they are for high tech tanks. so should i use the normal trace instead of the plus version?

cheers


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## CeeJay (14 Mar 2010)

Hi pest control.

Sorry I misunderstood. I thought your tank was hi tech.
If you are not using CO2, you can certainly cut down on the amount of ferts that have been recommended.
Bear in mind that EI was originally used for max growth rates, but to achieve that you need hi light and CO2 addition.
If the light is low, this will determine the uptake rate of your plants so you will be able to use less ferts.
Some people still use CO2 on low light set ups and this will assist with the plant growth but it will still be slower than a hi light tank, therefore less ferts are needed. If you are not using any CO2, you can reduce the ferts even further.
The key with any dosing regime, be it hi tech or low tech, is not to have any deficiencies of anything.
So you can start high and reduce the strength of your 'mix' each time you mix up a batch. Just give the plants time to adapt to the changes, usually 2-3 weeks, before making any other changes.

As for your question, if your tank is non CO2 then the other Trace will be fine (slower uptake rates, so less is needed   )


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## Ben M (14 Mar 2010)

thanks, i'll use the normal trace then. do you think i should buy the biggest quantities that are on aqua essentials, or should i buy 500g of each chemical?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (14 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> thanks, i'll use the normal trace then. do you think i should buy the biggest quantities that are on aqua essentials, or should i buy 500g of each chemical?
> 
> cheers



If I were mixing up the quantities below 
KNo3 - = 6tps
KH2Po4 - = 3 tps
MgSo4 - = 18 tps
CSM-B - = 1 tps 

I would buy this amount - the shelf life is longer due to it being a powder rather than a liquid - but if it become damp etc - its buy some more 
KNo3 = 500g bag
KH2po4 = 250g bag
CSM-B = 250g bags
MgSo4 = 1kg bag (soley because of the quantity your are mixing - 18 tps).

Regards
paul.


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## Ben M (14 Mar 2010)

thanks, i think that's everything, i just need to buy it all now. is aqua essentials a good place to buy, and do i need to buy some containers to store the powders in?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (14 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> thanks, i think that's everything, i just need to buy it all now. is aqua essentials a good place to buy, and do i need to buy some containers to store the powders in?
> 
> cheers




I bought mine for AE and had no problems what so ever, as for containers - you know the plastic tubs your Chinese take meal come in - perfect or tubaware containers.

Regards
paul.


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## CeeJay (14 Mar 2010)

Hi pest control
Paul just beat me to it, but I'll post what I was going to say anyway   


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> is aqua essentials a good place to buy,


Certainly is. I use AE and so do a few others round here, quick delivery too  .


			
				pest control said:
			
		

> and do i need to buy some containers to store the powders in?


They come delivered in a plastic bag with a sealing strip at the top, but I would advise buying some airtight containers, as Paul says, you must keep them dry.
No point in spending a fortune on containers, a Â£1 shop is a good place to start   
Get your powders delivered first, to give you an idea of the size of containers you need. They won't have to be very big for 250g, but the 1kg of MgSO4 will need a slightly bigger container.
Just for your info, 250g of Trace will last you a long, long time using 1 tsp a month   and it is the most expensive of all of the powders   .
I use 1.25 tsp of Trace per month in my 180l hi tech, and I bought 100g last May (2009), and I've just measured it, and I've got 9 teaspoons of the stuff left. At my current dosing rate that will last me another 7 months  .
All I'm saying is, if the pennies are tight, buy 100g of the Trace, as that will last you well over a year   .
You appear to have done your homework, which is a good thing, so now it's time to take the plunge.
Any more queries, just holler, as we're here to help


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## Ben M (14 Mar 2010)

hi, so i'll  buy from aqua essentials. and i'll get
KNo3 = 500g bag
KH2po4 = 250g bag
CSM-B = 100g bag
MgSo4 = 1kg bag

i think that it's a good idea to get less of the trace incase i get it wet.  do you think that i'll save any money from the TPN+?

cheers for all the help.


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## Ben M (14 Mar 2010)

hi, i've just looked, and i can't find the normal trace elements. is it just me, or have they disappeared?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (14 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, i've just looked, and i can't find the normal trace elements. is it just me, or have they disappeared?
> 
> cheers




Looks like they only have trace mix plus atm - here is a shortcut to some more trace mix http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/2010/0 ... -elements/

Regards
Paul.


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## Ben M (15 Mar 2010)

cheers, do you think that they'll have the normal trace soon?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (15 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> cheers, do you think that they'll have the normal trace soon?
> 
> cheers



Drop Richard a pm 

Regards
Paul.


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## Ben M (15 Mar 2010)

erm, who's richard?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (15 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> erm, who's richard?
> 
> cheers




Richard is the owner of "Aqua Essentials and also a sponser of our forum.

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/

Regards 
Paul.


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## Ben M (15 Mar 2010)

hi, what's his name on the forum?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (15 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, what's his name on the forum?
> 
> cheers




here is the link.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=238

Regards
paul.


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## Ben M (16 Mar 2010)

thanks, i've pm'ed him

cheers


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## Ben M (17 Mar 2010)

hi, he says that he won't be stocking it again, so should i use the same amount of the trace mix plus, or less?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (17 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, he says that he won't be stocking it again, so should i use the same amount of the trace mix plus, or less?
> 
> cheers




Well if you do the analysis you will see the difference between AE - Trace mix verus FluidsensorOnline

AE v                                                                     Fluidsensoronline v                                  Difference
Boron 1.06% v                                                       Boron 1.05% =                                         0.01%
Copper 0.23% v                                                     Copper 0.23% =                                       0 
Iron 8.2% v                                                           Iron 8.4% =                                              0.4%
Manganese 1.82% v                                               Manganese 1.82% =                                  0
Molybdenum 0.15% v                                             Molybdenum 0.15% =                                 0
Zinc 1.16% v                                                         Zinc 1.16% =                                             0

In other word for the percentage difference - "Not worth bothering with" - buy AE Trace mix and keep the mix the same.
No deviation for orginal mixture 1 tsp to 200mls of water dose twice a week on alternate days.

Regards
paul.


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## Ben M (17 Mar 2010)

cheers


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## Ben M (30 Mar 2010)

hi, i've worked out the prices etc. and i'm going to buy soon, but about how long will the ferts last? i think the trace will last a few years, as i'll be buying 250g and dosing 1tsp per month, but about how long will the others last?

EDIT: i've just thought. could my brother use the same dosage as me? his tank is 120l (juwel lido 120) with 1.5 wpg of t5, and no co2. he is dosing the same TPN+ as me ATM, so could he dose the same EI?

cheers


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## CeeJay (30 Mar 2010)

Hi pest control



			
				pest control said:
			
		

> EDIT: i've just thought. could my brother use the same dosage as me? his tank is 120l (juwel lido 120) with 1.5 wpg of t5, and no co2. he is dosing the same TPN+ as me ATM, so could he dose the same EI?


Of course he can  . That's the beauty of this system. 
Just bear in mind the figures quoted above are for your tank (216l), therefore for a 120l you would reduce the amount of powders in the mix by approximately half. No need to be mega precise. If your brother is not running CO2 then a dose half the strength of yours should be more than enough.
Altenatively, mix up the batch for yourself and let your brother use the same solution, just make sure he doses half the amount you do. Saves making up two different strength batches.


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## Ben M (31 Mar 2010)

thanks, i'll just make one batch, and tell him to use half as much. 

cheers


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## Ben M (16 Oct 2010)

hi, i've finally got my EI powders.   it took ages to persuade my parents that i'm not going to blow them up with the chemicals.   i would just like to recap. 

do i do a 50% water change on the Sunday, and then dose the macro on mon, tues and wed, and dose the trace on tues and thurs? also, can i put in the macro at the same time as the trace, or do i have to wait a while between the 2? 

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (16 Oct 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, i've finally got my EI powders.   it took ages to persuade my parents that i'm not going to blow them up with the chemicals.   i would just like to recap.
> 
> do i do a 50% water change on the Sunday, and then dose the macro on mon, tues and wed, and dose the trace on tues and thurs? also, can i put in the macro at the same time as the trace, or do i have to wait a while between the 2?
> 
> cheers




Pesty 

Horah at last.

Dosing regime 
50 % wc - Sunday 
NPK - Sunday
Trace - Monday
NPK - Tuesday
Trace Wednesday
NPK - Thursday 
Rest days - Friday & Saturday
50% wc - Sunday & dose again.

Regards
Paul.


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## Ben M (16 Oct 2010)

Flyfisherman said:
			
		

> Pesty
> 
> Horah at last.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul, tell me about it. i've been fighting for my ferts for months!  

cheers for the dosing regime. and all of the other stuff you've helped me with. without you i'd still be dosing TPN+  

i'm off to mix my ferts now.


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## Ben M (16 Oct 2010)

hi, i've just mixed the ferts, and i'm just checking i've done it right (which i'm sure i have). should the NPK be colourless, and the trace be a reddish orange?

cheers


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (16 Oct 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> hi, i've just mixed the ferts, and i'm just checking i've done it right (which i'm sure i have). should the NPK be colourless, and the trace be a reddish orange?
> 
> cheers




Yes mate

Regards
Paul.


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## Ben M (16 Oct 2010)

thanks. i will start dosing tomorrow then!


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