# Talk to me about filtration



## mrhoyo (26 Feb 2021)

I have a Seachem HOB on my 70l
My wife's tank has a built in filter (Aquanano 40)
Fish breeders seem to use air powered sponge filters
Aquascapers seem to use canisters

The rule around here seems to be 10x turnover per hour for high tech but also that most biological filtration is in the tank itself.

So...
Are these £300 Oase canisters adding much other than flow?

Planning another tank and getting confused.


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## dw1305 (26 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


mrhoyo said:


> Fish breeders seem to use air powered sponge filters


If you have a fish house it is a "no-brainer", you can run loads of air powered sponges from <"one relatively cheap linear piston powered air pump"> and a closed air loop.



If I was building a fish room I'd definitely go down the <"HMF Czech jet lifter set-up">.

It is also partially how you can tell that oxygen is the most important factor, even in keeping rheophilic fish, because a lot of successful L number <"and _Corydoras_ breeders"> are still using air pumps and Matten Filters, even where they want flow. 

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (26 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


mrhoyo said:


> The rule around here seems to be 10x turnover per hour for high tech but also that most biological filtration is in the tank itself.
> 
> So...
> Are these £300 Oase canisters adding much other than flow?


<"No, not a lot">.

Fundamentally any canister filter is a <"pump in a bucket">. People like them because they are quiet and they "plug and play", not because they are offer any <"great advantage in terms of biological filtration">.

If you are a CO2 user, then a sump system is going to be more difficult than a canister and air pumps are going to be a non-starter.

cheers Darrel


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## Maf 2500 (26 Feb 2021)

The advantage of the Oase canisters is for aesthetic reasons only, to move the filtration and heating into the cabinet under the display tank where it cannot be seen. Also, usually quieter than air driven.

Functionally, its not doing anything any better than comparable in tank or HOB options. Fish breeders use sponge filters for areason - they work. (see above)


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## mrhoyo (26 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> <"No, not a lot">.
> 
> ...


So, theoretically, a canister is no better than a sponge with a power head or an ir sponge and one of those wave maker things aside from aesthetics?
I don't particularly like seeing the HOB but I can't imagine I'd like seeing filter hoses more. I'm quite a fan of how the AIO looks with just one small pipe showing, how do those types of filters fare? Presumably they're quite good due to large media area


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## dw1305 (26 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


mrhoyo said:


> So, theoretically, a canister is no better than a sponge with a power head or an ir sponge and one of those wave maker things aside from aesthetics?


Pretty much. A lot of people like canister filters because you can use them as a syphon, I'm fairly keen on keeping all of <"the mechanical filtration outside of the filter">, so this isn't something that I recommend.   

I actually like the <"power head and sponge combination">. One issue with small tanks is that internal filters can make them too warm in the summer, which can be an advantage of air powered filters, the warming happens elsewhere.






cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (26 Feb 2021)

That's a beast of a sponge filter, what tank is that in?


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## dw1305 (26 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


mrhoyo said:


> That's a beast of a sponge filter, what tank is that in?


It <"is in this one">, you can see the top of the power-head in the rear right corner.  I still have the same sponge and power head from ~2012.

They are the <"12" x 4" x 4" sponges they sell for Koi filtration">. I just looked and the 12" ones are £8.75 at <"Rainbow Koi">.

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (26 Feb 2021)

Aqua one wouldn't like you, they recommend replacing the sponges every 8 weeks or something ridiculous!


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## Jaseon (26 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just looked and the 12" ones are £8.75 at <"Rainbow Koi">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Do you know if they are the same material that swiss topicals use in their matten 'filters'. Im thinking either making my own matten for a shrimp tank. Not sure what PPI foam to use though.

Edit: Just found that its the polyether foam im looking for.


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## dw1305 (26 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


mrhoyo said:


> they recommend replacing the sponges every 8 weeks or something ridiculous!


Maybe that should have been eight years? I'm not sure what the Koi ones are made of, but they last really well.

cheers Darrel


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## Rockfella (13 Oct 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> Aqua one wouldn't like you, they recommend replacing the sponges every 8 weeks or something ridiculous!


If they don't they will be out of business?!?!


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## MichaelJ (13 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Pretty much. A lot of people like canister filters because you can use them as a syphon, I'm fairly keen on keeping all of <"the mechanical filtration outside of the filter">, so this isn't something that I recommend.
> 
> ...



@dw1305  Its fascinating...  I am wondering how much biological filtration (and chemical  for that matter)  we actually _need_ in a densely planted tank. Of course, we need proper flow and circulation in our tanks in order to distribute nutrients, CO2 and O2, but other than that? I could imagine that plants and substrate would provide enough biological filtration in a lot of situations... say,with lots, and lots of plants and reasonable stocking levels?

Cheers,
Michael


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> I am wondering how much biological filtration (and chemical for that matter) we actually _need_ in a densely planted tank.


I would have said that heavy planting ("plant/microbe biofiltration") would give you enough in nearly all situations, but I've had a <"recent revelation about stocking density">.

cheers Darrel


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## Garuf (13 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I would have said that heavy planting ("plant/microbe biofiltration") would give you enough in nearly all situations, but I've had a <"recent revelation about stocking density">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I skim read that recently and I’m a bit curious, is it off gassing or is it actual o2 content that dictates stocking, because if pearling is o2 in saturation via co2 driving metabolism that would mean overstocking in a planted tank would be easier than in a non injected tank? 

Sorry to side track but after having o2 woes recently I’m trying to get a better understanding of what works and why it works.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Oct 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> I am wondering how much biological filtration (and chemical for that matter) we actually _need_ in a densely planted tank.


None. 
When I started fishkeeping filters were only for tanks that couldn't be planted, for instance tanks for large, destructive cichlids or for plant-munchers like Silver Dollars.


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


Garuf said:


> is it off gassing or is it actual o2 content that dictates stocking, because if pearling is o2 in saturation via co2 driving metabolism that would mean overstocking in a planted tank would be easier than in a non injected tank?


It is more to do with <"Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD)">, even treated sewage <"can pearl in the right conditions">.


> Raw sewage has a Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD) <"of about 400 mg/L"> and water (at 20oC) can hold about 10mg/L dissolved oxygen, but you still treat sewage aerobically if you get enough oxygen into it.



cheers Darrel


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## MichaelJ (13 Oct 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> None.


_Brevity is the soul of wit_ - Polonius, Hamlet, act 2, scene 2 


sparkyweasel said:


> When I started fishkeeping filters were only for tanks that couldn't be planted, for instance tanks for large, destructive cichlids or for plant-munchers like Silver Dollars.


Yep, back in the 80ties all my cichlid tanks had, when I could afford it, massive canister filtration. Usually I would just stuff them with those short "ceramic tubes" (I can't remember the brand/name) and some coarse sponges.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Djoko Sauza (14 Oct 2021)

Everyone seems to forget about the pre-filter in the Oase Biomaster, for me that's the best thing about it.


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## Fiske (14 Oct 2021)

Diogo Sousa said:


> Everyone seems to forget about the pre-filter in the Oase Biomaster, for me that's the best thing about it.


As mentioned in another thread, I can clean my entire Eheim Classic in the same time it took me to move the Oase out of the cabinet, clean the prefilter alone, prime the POS, and wipe the floor.

Not to add the following 30 minutes I had to spend wiggling some 10 kilos of filter around INSIDE the cabinet to get rid of trapped air, never getting rid of it all.

Eheim Classic? Open double taps, filter primed and running. Bubbles expelled in 30 secs or less.


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## Djoko Sauza (14 Oct 2021)

Fiske said:


> As mentioned in another thread, I can clean my entire Eheim Classic in the same time it took me to move the Oase out of the cabinet, clean the prefilter alone, prime the POS, and wipe the floor.
> 
> Not to add the following 30 minutes I had to spend wiggling some 10 kilos of filter around INSIDE the cabinet to get rid of trapped air, never getting rid of it all.
> 
> Eheim Classic? Open double taps, filter primed and running. Bubbles expelled in 30 secs or less.


I guess my experience differs from yours. With the Oase whenever I clean the prefilter the filter doesn't need to primed, the floor doesn't need to be wiped and the trapped air goes away by itself. I can understand why you don't like it if it involves so much work, I for sure wouldn't either.
I find it a plus not having to handle the biological media during weekly maintenance. 

In the end of the day a filter is a filter and they all get the job done pretty much.

Other things to consider when asking yourself if a filter is worth the price tag are longevity, build quality, spare parts availability and after sales/customer support.

Filters can last a long time so sometimes it's worth spending the extra $$$.


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## dw1305 (14 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Diogo Sousa said:


> Everyone seems to forget about the pre-filter in the Oase Biomaster


<"I like a pre-filter">, although I've never owned a filter with an internal one. 


Fiske said:


> Eheim Classic? Open double taps, filter primed and running. Bubbles expelled in 30 secs or less.


That makes <"perfect sense to me as well">. 

cheers Darrel


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