# Stuck in a rut!



## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

I feel like a complete tool for posting this on this forum as honestly I'm a complete noob sitting amongst artists when it comes to aquascaping, but he goes...

I've spent the last 3 days trying to do an Iwagumi hardscape using Seiryu stone and it's doing my f@#$ing head in something shocking, I can't come up with anything at all or I do and I go back and look at it a couple hours later and change it again because I'm not happy with it, I've spent about 2 hours each day on it and I am just lost, completely dumbfounded, can not come up with anything at all I am happy with what so ever at all.

I want to do an Iwagumi because if I don't use the stone it would have been a waste of $50 plus dollars, the ideas of planting the tank out with different plants are running through my head but no, I'm trying to stick with an Iwagumi hardscape, honestly, I'm at boiling point, people are telling me oh just walk away for a while and leave it and come back later and have another go at it, well that isn't working at all is it, ha.

Ideas, opinions, options... anything?


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## Edvet (25 Sep 2015)

I'd say start with growing plants first
Start your tank and grow lots of healthy beautifull plants, next to that make a mock tank, (cardboard or so) with some playsand and work on that layout'.
You can always start a new layout and use the plants you have grown. And growing plants is easier without the flow blocking  hardscape


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

The thought is right there to do exactly what you're saying @Edvet!


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## Ady34 (25 Sep 2015)

What i would do is google image 'iwagumi aquascapes' and get inspiration for exactly what sort of look you are going for. Heavy rockwork, minimal rocks or 3 stone 'sanzon'. Then look at your rocks and see if they lend themselves better to any style, ie 3 very detailed 'sexy' rocks, large feature rocks etc.
Once you have an idea you can make a layout work......with a bit more patience 
Sometimes you have a vision, but your rocks dont lend themselves to that so you have to adapt.
Cheerio,
Ady


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

I've been looking at Iwagumi images online, also started looking at Japanese Rock Gardens also for insperation, but you're right though, I have an image in my head of how I want it to look, but the rocks I have aren't helping at all, @Ady34


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## stu_ (25 Sep 2015)

Hi
find an example of one you like.Rocks permitting-copy it.
Your first attempt doesn't have to be unique IMO
Learn to grow plants well.Besides your effort, will never be an exact copy of the original.


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## PARAGUAY (25 Sep 2015)

You could just look at Ady34s. tank in progress.Most of us find rockwork difficult so your not alone.What appears nice placing or luck isnt always the case,in Japanese gardens have a name for rocks from the largest to the smallest.Check out James Findley Green Machine on how to position them


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## Ady34 (25 Sep 2015)

Yeah GotCrabs, that's what happened to me, started with a plan of a sanzon (3 stone) iwagumi, however had to adapt as my stones didn't lend themselves to it. Instead went with a end to end structure inspired by an ADG aquascape.
Good luck and stick with it, any rock placements you make that you like, photograph for reference so you can revisit them later if necessary. Sometimes you like parts of a hardscape but not the whole, keep trying different rock positions and rocks as it can make a huge difference to the look. I'll add some images later of my most recent hardscape to illustrate my point.....one rock really didn't work so I played with others to much better effect.
Cheerio
Ady


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> You could just look at Ady34s. tank in progress.Most of us find rockwork difficult so your not alone.What appears nice placing or luck isnt always the case,in Japanese gardens have a name for rocks from the largest to the smallest.Check out James Findley Green Machine on how to position them



Yeah have watched The Green Machine's videos on YouTube, also checked out Iwagumi videos on there, read a bit, sussed out Japanese Rock Gardens for insperation, listened to a podcast explaining the art of Iwagumi and it's history and it's how too, gone though a lot of images online, seen some absolute beauties but just can't seem to work with what I have at the moment mate, it's frustrating, I'll keep with it, but I'll have greyer hair by the time the weekend is over though, haha.


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

Ady34 said:


> Yeah GotCrabs, that's what happened to me, started with a plan of a sanzon (3 stone) iwagumi, however had to adapt as my stones didn't lend themselves to it. Instead went with a end to end structure inspired by an ADG aquascape.
> Good luck and stick with it, any rock placements you make that you like, photograph for reference so you can revisit them later if necessary. Sometimes you like parts of a hardscape but not the whole, keep trying different rock positions and rocks as it can make a huge difference to the look. I'll add some images later of my most recent hardscape to illustrate my point.....one rock really didn't work so I played with others to much better effect.
> Cheerio
> Ady



Yeah I played with a Sanzon Iwagumi, but just looks a little dull to me, sounds rude I know, was looking to work with 5 or 7.


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## TheDoVla (25 Sep 2015)

Maybe you should try to forget about rules and try to make something that "your eyes will like". If u don't lake what u make, try again, from beginning. Beginning is key word here. Don't try again and take same rock as focus, just try something different. In most times, we beginners, limit ourselves. IMO for good iwagumi hard scape u must put rock in sand, so u can take advantage of all stone corners.


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## PARAGUAY (25 Sep 2015)

Theres a interesting Amano one out there somewhere,PFK maybe ?)were its based on a mountainside leading in the valley,he literally scatters smaller stones on his built up mountain side adds more substrate on top,larger stones and plants foreground,hairgrass on the top.A bsolute genius looks just like a moutainside perspective very good


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## Ady34 (25 Sep 2015)

GotCrabs, have you any images of your rocks or past hardscape attempts? If we can see your tank and rocks we may be able to offer suggestions....


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

@Ady34 

Here are two I did yesterday, the 3 stone just looks dull to me, and the 7 looks too crowded.


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

Remember, it'll be a HC only planted tank as well.


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## GotCrabs (25 Sep 2015)

...and here is everything.


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## Nelson (25 Sep 2015)

How about something like this ?.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/iwagumi-project-scree-new-plants-and-lights.12095/


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## TheDoVla (25 Sep 2015)

I think you have problem because you are thinking too much, literally. Just try to relax, don't think too much and try to make something chaotic. Place the biggest rock, then opposite rock and then just try to make it look chaotic, like in a nature. I can see that you placing all rocks in the same way, try to avoid that. Try to tilt the biggest stone, just a little, and say if it's better. Hope I was helpful.


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## tim (25 Sep 2015)

Is there any possibility you could buy more rocks ? My biggest mistake was buying a few kilo of seryiu,ohko,pagoda, bassalt when I first started in the hobby and I'm left with a box full of rocks that just don't fit together  instead of an iwagumi a nice piece of redmoor or manzi driftwood would complement those rocks well, and let you get on with the business of growing plants


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## Ady34 (25 Sep 2015)

Hi GotCrabs,
you have a good selection of rocks there with some nice textures. You may be lacking a main stone though which makes scaping difficult. To overcome this try grouping a couple of stones together to give the illusion of a larger focal stone 'Oyaishi' and work from there.
As i said earlier you may have to alter your layout to get something your happy with. Take this for example:




 



 

in the first image the supporting rock to the left of my Oyaishi stone just didnt work, however i liked the rest of the layout so i played nice with a few more rocks until i found something that worked better.....

Its about trying to get rocks which compliment each other, work from a focal rock (or cluster rocks which fit nicely together) and your layout will begin to take a shape from which you can add complimentary rocks. You can add mounding, or slopes to your substrate to gain height if your rocks rant tall enough and try to use the rule of thirds for focal points 
Stick with it, it'll come together in the end.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

nelson said:


> How about something like this ?.
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/iwagumi-project-scree-new-plants-and-lights.12095/



Is that George Farmer's "One Pot Iwagumi"? Great hardscape and amazing end result isn't it.



TheDoVla said:


> I think you have problem because you are thinking too much, literally. Just try to relax, don't think too much and try to make something chaotic. Place the biggest rock, then opposite rock and then just try to make it look chaotic, like in a nature. I can see that you placing all rocks in the same way, try to avoid that. Try to tilt the biggest stone, just a little, and say if it's better. Hope I was helpful.



I sat down again today and pulled everything out again, put the tank aside and started playing with hardscapes on a towel on the table, came up with something I was pleased with then tried to transfer it to the tank and the tank was too small, so had to work around that, end result is something I'm pretty happy with, added a few smaller stones here and there, to make things look a little more rough, un-natural.

I'm thinking too much for sure.



tim said:


> Is there any possibility you could buy more rocks ? My biggest mistake was buying a few kilo of seryiu,ohko,pagoda, bassalt when I first started in the hobby and I'm left with a box full of rocks that just don't fit together  instead of an iwagumi a nice piece of redmoor or manzi driftwood would complement those rocks well, and let you get on with the business of growing plants



Yeah I could get more stone, but it would have to be by mail as the closest aquarium store is roughly 4 hours away, I think I've come up with something I'm really happy with.



Ady34 said:


> Hi GotCrabs,
> you have a good selection of rocks there with some nice textures. You may be lacking a main stone though which makes scaping difficult. To overcome this try grouping a couple of stones together to give the illusion of a larger focal stone 'Oyaishi' and work from there.
> As i said earlier you may have to alter your layout to get something your happy with.
> 
> ...



Thanks Ady, that hardscape is great, love it, I know what you mean though, as said above I sat down and pulled everything out and had another play around with a scape, added more smaller stones here and there for an un-natural look, a lot of rock crammed together, I've come up with a hardscape I'm quite happy with and am looking forward to fully planting out with HC, perhaps some Dwarf Hair Grass at back, also removed most of the substrate I had in the tank, made a level surface instead of a slope and worked with that, added a few cups of substrate to the back to create a background for planting, end result, I'm happy with what I've come up with, I'll post photos once planting is started and I'll create a journal also.

Thanks all for the help, much appreciated.


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## PARAGUAY (26 Sep 2015)

Had the inspiration to look at a few examples  via Adys and Nelsons one of George Farmers. In  your picture set up Gotcrabs your Oyaishi has the next stone roughly the same size. Maybe the Oyaishi has to be well chosen and next one" down" a third smaller?


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> Had the inspiration to look at a few examples  via Adys and Nelsons one of George Farmers. In  your picture set up Gotcrabs your Oyaishi has the next stone roughly the same size. Maybe the Oyaishi has to be well chosen and next one" down" a third smaller?



Yeah came up with something else earlier that I think I'm going to go with.


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## Nelson (26 Sep 2015)

GotCrabs said:


> Yeah came up with something else earlier that I think I'm going to go with.


Show us then.Oh come on....................................


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

nelson said:


> Show us then.Oh come on....................................



Gee, don't ask for much do ya, haha.

OK, here is it, it's obviously not Iwagumi, but it's something I'm pleased with and should look good planted in full HC.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s531/AWPfeiffer/IMG_0619_zpsbstwdgit.jpg


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

Actually looks different in photo from what it does from the eye.


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## TheDoVla (26 Sep 2015)

I'm glad u make something that pleased your eyes.


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

TheDoVla said:


> I'm glad u make something that pleased your eyes.



But what are opinions of others on it?


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## TheDoVla (26 Sep 2015)

"Others" waiting pics.  First create something that u like, than others help improving it.


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)




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## Ady34 (26 Sep 2015)

Looks great, I would maybe just move that central foreground rock to the left a touch, maybe even right up to the left hand bank of rocks as it looks too central currently. 
Pleased you returned to it with fresh ideas and a clear head, and that you have a scape which you are happy with. You can enjoy the planting now .
Cheerio
Ady


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## Nelson (26 Sep 2015)

Looks like you'll have to start a journal now .


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## GotCrabs (26 Sep 2015)

Ady34 said:


> Looks great, I would maybe just move that central foreground rock to the left a touch, maybe even right up to the left hand bank of rocks as it looks too central currently.
> Pleased you returned to it with fresh ideas and a clear head, and that you have a scape which you are happy with. You can enjoy the planting now .
> Cheerio
> Ady



Actually did wonder about the rock in the middle being too 'centre' and was wondering where else to put it, also thought about something on the left top level as well, there is also a small rock on the left that doesn't seem to fit in, might take that away and add it elsewhere, it's sitting at 16 stones, so will need to add more or less, probably more to give it the uneven number.



nelson said:


> Looks like you'll have to start a journal now .



Yeah once I start the planting phase I'll take a photo and start recording details and what not, have 5 pots of HC being sent off tomorrow, not sure if to plant the whole tank in HC or add E. Parvula in the back.


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## tim (27 Sep 2015)

Looks really good, look forward to following your journal


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## GotCrabs (27 Sep 2015)

tim said:


> Looks really good, look forward to following your journal



Thanks, really looking forward to planting this in and watching it grow, just not sure about if to go full HC or not.


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## Nelson (27 Sep 2015)

Maybe start with all HC first and see how you like it.Then add E. Parvula later.


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