# Water conditioner, is too much a problem? (fairly urgent)



## Hyoscine (21 Oct 2015)

I've finished my old bottle of dechlorinator (one of the Tetra ones), and half way through a water change I've opened my new one, (API Tap Water Conditioner). My problem is I've just noticed the API stuff is roughly 10 times more concentrated. Which is fine, except that with my little tank I'm now trying to eyeball 0.08ml of the stuff. The syringes I've got lying around the house just aren't small enough.

So, what I'm hoping to find out is just how bad will it be if I've got too much of this stuff in the water? I guess at worst, I could be about to dose twice as much as I should...


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## JamieB (21 Oct 2015)

Should be fine. They're only designed to remove harmful stuff so once it's removed it can't do anything else.


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## Hyoscine (21 Oct 2015)

You're a life-saver, cheers!


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## Manuel Arias (21 Oct 2015)

JamieB said:


> Should be fine. They're only designed to remove harmful stuff so once it's removed it can't do anything else.



Dechlorinator are made essentially by a mix of thiosulphates, which interact especially with halogen elements of the periodic table, mainly, like iodine, chlorine and bromine, so any excess of this will affect to the trace element composition of the water, and probably other metals towards this molecules have affinity, like iron or copper. By overdosing, the recommendation I would do is to boost trace elements on the next day to compensate this and you should be OK.


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## Hyoscine (21 Oct 2015)

Ah, thanks. Will do!


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## alto (21 Oct 2015)

You can always peruse their registered MSDS  ...
I was actually looking to see if various "conditioning agents" are included in the product formulation (or is it just sodium thiosulfate & EDTA tetrasodium salt) but that remains unclear as they've hidden behind the "proprietary information" act, you might email API for a more accurate answer


my favorite bit 

*DO NOT discharge into sewer or waterways.*


 (I'd be loathe to routinely overdose this 10X, it can certainly cause problems for shrimp, depending on actual ingredients)


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## PARAGUAY (22 Oct 2015)

I find the Aquarian(Mars Fishcare)is a good one for smaller tanks and less multiple water changes,easy to dose correctly by the cap. Tesco stock it pet section


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## Hyoscine (22 Oct 2015)

Thanks, Alto! Damn though... Six months ago I thought I was getting into something _relaxing_.

Cheers Paraguay. I'll pick some of that up. : )


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## rebel (30 Oct 2015)

You can make a dilution with distilled water so that you can dose 5ml for convenience.


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## REDSTEVEO (13 Nov 2015)

On the subject of Water Purifiers, I opened a half full bottle of Eheim Dechlorinator the other day to do a water change and noticed a strange sort of bad egg smell coming from the bottle, really bad. I opened another half full bottle of Waterlife Dechlorinator and that smelt almost as bad. Does this stuff go off?

I decided not to risk it just in case.

Steve


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## rebel (13 Nov 2015)

REDSTEVEO said:


> On the subject of Water Purifiers, I opened a half full bottle of Eheim Dechlorinator the other day to do a water change and noticed a strange sort of bad egg smell coming from the bottle, really bad. I opened another half full bottle of Waterlife Dechlorinator and that smelt almost as bad. Does this stuff go off?
> 
> I decided not to risk it just in case.
> 
> Steve


This is kinda 'normal' and nothing to worry about. Just use it normally.


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## alto (13 Nov 2015)

normal but also "not so normal" - the smell is related to decomposition of the initial sodium thiosulfate (& misc) solution, releasing the distinctive smelling S (sulfur or "rotten egg" smell)
eg,
Na2S2O3 --> 2Na + SO3 + S

For aquarium use, stabilizers are added, also various other components (such as EDTA etc to bind heavy metals) & various proprietary compounds (depending on how many magical reactions are attributed to the water conditioner) ... upon initial production, there is usually a faint S odor, over time this may increase - if solution actually looks yellow (& about knocks you over) there's not much intact sodium thiosulfate remaining to react with the chlorine in your tap water.

If you read the fine print, the manufacturer should provide an estimate of how much solution reacts/neutralizes how much chlorine (in tap water),

eg, Prime states
_Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine.
_
 if there is significant decomposition then this amount of chlorine etc neutralized will decrease (possibly a lot), so you can double dose & hope that covers it, or return "smelly" product for new & so on ...
If your water supplier uses chloramine rather than chlorine, your livestock will appreciate water conditioner that is properly stabilized & stored.

(check manufacture & expiry dates on bottles, store in a cool, dim (dark) place, once opened use bottles within a reasonable time period; if you buy in bulk, then consider dispensing into smaller bottles which are kept full & closed while being stored)


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## BigTom (13 Nov 2015)

Or you could buy a bag of sodium thiosulphate crystals for a few quid which will last you probably the rest of your life! 

Posting from my mobile, please excuse brevity!


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## REDSTEVEO (13 Nov 2015)

alto said:


> normal but also "not so normal" - the smell is related to decomposition of the initial sodium thiosulfate (& misc) solution, releasing the distinctive smelling S (sulfur or "rotten egg" smell)
> eg,
> Na2S2O3 --> 2Na + SO3 + S



Thanks for the absolutely awesome reply with an explanation of what the rotten egg smell was. I decided to bin it as it had been opened for a long time.

Thank you,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (13 Nov 2015)

rebel said:


> This is kinda 'normal' and nothing to worry about. Just use it normally.



Hi Rebel,

Sorry but this stuff smelt really bad and I don't like putting smelly stuff in the aquarium, especially when I am doing a water change to make it all nice and clean
Cheers,

Steve


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## REDSTEVEO (13 Nov 2015)

BigTom said:


> Or you could buy a bag of sodium thiosulphate crystals for a few quid which will last you probably the rest of your life!


Nice one Big Tom,

Don't think I will go down that route, I have got cupboards full of powders and potions with out adding to it. It drives the missus nuts! But thanks for the tip! Someone else might go for it.

Cheers,

Steve


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## ian_m (13 Nov 2015)

Wouldn't worry too much, most of the better water conditioners, Prime, Amquel have a slightly wiffy smell, due to sulphurous compounds present, even when brand new. Once diluted in the tank, not a problem.

Generally the dechlorinators are kept slightly alkaline, to stop the thiosulphate based compounds decomposing into sulphurous compounds. However prolonged exposure to air, ie not putting top on bottle, and strong light will lead them to be decomposed, slowly.


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## REDSTEVEO (13 Nov 2015)

Hyoscine said:


> So, what I'm hoping to find out is just how bad will it be if I've got too much of this stuff in the water? I guess at worst, I could be about to dose twice as much as I should...



Hello Hyosine,

Sorry for hijacking your thread. One of the bottles I had said on the label that it was not possible to overdose so not to worry. But I usually follow the instructions on the labels to the exact letter, if it says 5ml per 20 gallon, then that's what I put in.

I have heard a lot about different dechlorinators, does anyone have a suggestion of which one is best? Also I have a large bottle of Tetra Pond Tap Safe, is this exactly the same stuff used for aquariums? i.e. is it safe to use in an aquarium?

Cheers,

Steve


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## alto (13 Nov 2015)

Tetra Pond Aquasafe

Just take care that you can consistently add suitable amounts for your water changes (re present discus stress state)
 - despite the "safe" claims re not possible to overdose, those "colloidal ingredients" are not exactly a natural condition for fish (they are often polyethyleneglycol derivatives & likely not the highest purity given the cheap cost of the aquarium products), B1 likely won't adversely affect the fish (though some fish that are very sensitive to environment may not prefer it & demonstrate stress behaviour), EDTA (ETTA etc) for heavy metals (again not going to be top grade re cost), "iodine & minerals" again at the recommended product dose, these are unlikely to adversely affect fish

I don't know if pond labelled products meet different standards than onrnamental fish products - Tetra likely can advise if their Pond & Aquarium versions differ much in composition.

I've used pond water condtioners in the past but they were much more basic re just dechlorinators (note the EDTA etc is always included as a safety precaution in regards side reaction between sodium thiosulfate & heavy metals re possible toxicity under certain conditions) 

When dealing with more viscous compounds/solutions,  the minimum volume needed to deliver consistent product is a significant factor, so sometimes changing from a recommended dose of 50ml to a few ml, will void any "guarantee" of product delivery - instead a "working dilution" is made, eg 50ml of initial product made up to 500 ml, then 50 ml of this latter solution is used to effectively deliver 5ml of the original compound (again store your original bottle & your remix, appropriately - in this instance, you'll notice any "off" effects )


add 50 ml of Tetra Pond AquaSafe for every 1,000 litres of pond water

_Effectively and permanently neutralising poisonous heavy metals such as copper, zinc and lead_

_Neutralising aggressive chlorine_

_Using organic colloidal ingredients that effectively protect fish gills and mucous membranes and thus prevent disease_

_Contains vitamin B1 to combat stress, for instance when transporting, introducing or transferring fish_

_With iodine and minerals to increase fish vitality and promote breeding_


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## rebel (14 Nov 2015)

alto said:


> normal but also "not so normal" - the smell is related to decomposition of the initial sodium thiosulfate (& misc) solution, releasing the distinctive smelling S (sulfur or "rotten egg" smell)
> eg,
> Na2S2O3 --> 2Na + SO3 + S
> 
> ...


Thanks for this excellent info. I am going to read up about this issue. 

For the record, I overdose prime constantly. I can't measure tiny amounts of it for my nano tanks anyways.


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