# Problems.... and I think it's an Algae one.........



## leemonk (25 Apr 2011)

Hi,

I have problems in my tank and it's causing my, once enjoyable, hobby to become a dreaded monthly task (there may lie the problem).

Sadly I am writting this 2 hrs after lights out in the tank, so I don't have any pics (will work on that for tomorrow).

Firstly, my Anubis gets this hard/rough like substance on it and then it melts away. New leaves come out a stunning deep green and then about a week later they get this stuff on them and then two weeks later they are gone.... and they are not pretty inbetween.

Secondly, I also have an algae/fungus that looks like small balls of cotton wool. They seem to grow on and around the driftwood I have in the tank and oddly enough, despite adding new bits 6 months ago, the algae seems to grow on the older wood that is around 2yrs old.

Thirdly and lastly, I have some moss that, similarly to the Anubis, grows lovely and green and then ends up brown/dirty within a few days or so. It also seems to grow very 'stringy'.

I am not sure what you might need to know from me to help me here, so if there are things that I need to check, please advise.

Regards

Lee

ps.. I use the Bonzai substrate with the fertiliser pellets at the bottom of the tank.


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## Johno2090 (25 Apr 2011)

Tank Parameters would help alot.

Size, Flow Rate, Filters, Co2, Dosing, Lighting, Light Hours, Fish Stocking etc etc the more you can tell us about your tank and whats in it or running on it the better the answers will be.


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## Johno2090 (25 Apr 2011)

Tank Parameters would help alot.

Size, Flow Rate, Filters, Co2, Dosing, Lighting, Light Hours, Fish Stocking etc etc the more you can tell us about your tank and whats in it or running on it the better the answers will be.


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## leemonk (25 Apr 2011)

Hey Johno, 

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'll answer what I can now and the rest tomorrow (hopefully).

Stock: 

1 Blue Rainbow
4 Mollys
2 Clown Plecs
8 Tetra's

Its a Rio 180 tank with built in pump and I also have an additional fan working in there too.

I have the standard lighting that is for around 8 hrs... though it starts at 12pm or so, so that I can still enjoy it when I get home from work.

I don't dose the plants and I do not have CO2 anymore, though I do have a a FE that is full, but my (the bit that regulates the flow) broke.

erm.... I think that covers your quesitons.... though I dont know about the chemistry of the water.

Regards


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## CeeJay (25 Apr 2011)

Hi leemonk


			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Its a Rio 180 tank with built in pump and I also have an additional fan working in there too.


I run a 180 myself and I am certain that you have not got enough flow.



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> I have the standard lighting that is for around 8 hrs... though it starts at 12pm or so, so that I can still enjoy it when I get home from work.


If yours is the later Rio 180 then it will have T5 lighting. There is no way that you can run 8 hours of T5 lighting and get away without CO2 or dosing. If your Rio is the older model it will have T8 lighting. Whilst it is not so severe, that is still a long lighting period to not be dosing anything.



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Stock:
> 
> 1 Blue Rainbow
> 4 Mollys
> ...


Your fish load is too small to be providing sufficient nutrients, so you need to get dosing.



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> I don't dose the plants and I do not have CO2 anymore, though I do have a a FE that is full, but my (the bit that regulates the flow) broke.


Sounds like you need to go 'low tech', which is much less work. Therefore you need to lower the lighting. Unfortunately the Rio lamps are wired in series, which is a pain, so you cannot just remove 1 lamp, as the other lamp will go out too   .
You will have to come up with a plan to lower the lighting, by either growing something on the surface, or somehow diffusing the light.
Either way, you will have to start dosing, or you'll have a tank full of algae before you know it.


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## leemonk (26 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the response Chris....

So, let me get this straight.... its almost reverse phsycology....

I have to much lighting and either:

A) not enough CO2
B) not enough dosing
C) Not enough fish to produce nutrients.

Is that right?

Regards

Lee

ps.... I just got some snaps, which I will try and put up shortly
pps... How do I post pictures?


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## Johno2090 (26 Apr 2011)

Sounds about right! Only problem is if you Increase Co2 you need more nutrients and if you increase your Dosing you'll need Co2....Sooooooo 

You can go Low light by growing something on the surface like Chris Said.... or you can go Hi-tech and get Co2 and Nutrients pumped into your tank. Its a hard Choice!


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## leemonk (26 Apr 2011)

My tank after a heavy trim:





The 'Cotton Wool' stuff I refer to:


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## CeeJay (26 Apr 2011)

Hi leemonk


			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> Thanks for the response Chris....
> 
> So, let me get this straight.... its almost reverse phsycology....
> 
> ...


As Johno2090 points out, that is about right. So reverse psychology it is. The goal is to get the plants healthy and they will then be immune to the algae attack.
If it's any consolation, I started like you, with the internal filter and a Koralia 1, thinking that I would get away with it. Wrong,.......... the algae told me so   .
After seeking advice round here, the internal went in the bin as it was rated at 600lph and when measured it was about 280lph with media. So I now run a 1200lph external with a 700lph external and a Koralia 1 at 1500lph and I'm seriously debating a second Koralia 1   .

I see your Anubias are struggling as you pointed out, and the one in front of the filter is in about the dimmest part of the tank and that's covered in BBA (which funnily enough is high light/CO2 related).
Upon studying the moss, close up, it looks like that's suffering from BBA too. It also has white bits in it that look like the stuff growing on your wood. Maybe you've discovered how to grow white BBA   .
On the plus side, your Crypts and Vallis are hanging on at the moment.
So if you can lower the lighting and go low tech with no CO2, your flow will probably be adequate as the pace of life is a whole lot slower, (so is the growth rate).
If it's any help, I'm running a low tech 1wpg 95 litre affair and that has Vallis, Crypts, Java fern. Needle leaf fern, 3 types of Echinodorus, Egeria densa and a Rotala of some sort. All bombing along nicely (no algae), but growth is slow but healthy. The only one I struggled with was Pogostemon Helferi which I had stripped out of another tank.
So plants can be grown without megawatts of light if that's your goal, but I still have to dose that tank. I use James' All in One mix which is just about equivalent to TPN+. 
To give you an idea of how important dosing is, even in the low tech, when I started that tank I dosed at Tropica's dosing rate of 5ml per 50 litres per week. How wrong was that, had a tank full of algae in about 3 weeks. I had BGA, BBA, GSA and hair algae all at the same time   .
After a massive onslaught and tidy up along with copious water changes, I find I have to dose 4 times that amount. Now I have healthy plants and no algae (apart from a bit on the back glass).
So dosing is important to keep the plants in good health, unless you have a huge fish load, and even then you will probably need trace elements as not everything comes from the fish waste.
Hope that helps.


			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> Only problem is if you Increase Co2 you need more nutrients


Correct   


			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> and if you increase your Dosing you'll need Co2


Incorrect   .
High lighting drives the need for CO2.
Light > CO2 > Ferts,  in that order  
Lower the light and you can ditch the CO2


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## Johno2090 (27 Apr 2011)

And as already pointed out he has high light  for his tank.


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## leemonk (27 Apr 2011)

Can I 'lower the light' by simply reducing the hours it is on or do I need to lower the power in some manner?

Regards


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## CeeJay (27 Apr 2011)

Hi all


			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> And as already pointed out he has high light for his tank.


  . 
So the answers are:-
1. Leave the lighting as it is and add CO2 and ferts and 50% water change per week, as suggested by your good self    or
2. Reduce the lighting, drop the CO2 and water changes, and dose once or twice a week, as suggested by me   
Everyone's a winner. Just depends how much time is available to dedicate to the tank.
Fortunately for me, I've managed to get my water changes on 2 tanks (the 180l and a 60l), down to 30 minutes. Usually done before the other half gets up on a Sunday morning   . I can then still get on with my day.

@leemonk
Reducing the hours will help, but the goal should be lowering the intensity of the light. I would be inclined to put something below the lights to try and diffuse the light somehow. I know it's not a very practical solution with these tanks but raising the lights up higher will also have the same effect. You've then just got to stop yourself getting blinded, especially if you have the T5's


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## leemonk (27 Apr 2011)

Thanks......

I might look for some floating type plant.... I used to ahve something that I quite liked and the molly fry loved hiding in it too.....

I idea with the grass at the back.... though not sure if it is visible (or even if it is grass), was for it to grow high and then block the light... .but the flow of water simply moves the higher ends into the corner...

Regards


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## CeeJay (27 Apr 2011)

Hi


			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> I might look for some floating type plant.... I used to ahve something that I quite liked and the molly fry loved hiding in it too.....


There are a few types of floating plant out there. But have you considered floating Riccia. Underneath the high light and with unlimited access to CO2 from the atmosphere, the stuff grows like wild fire. You'll be chucking (or selling   ) handfuls of the stuff every week, once you've got the cover you're after. Just a suggestion.



			
				leemonk said:
			
		

> but the flow of water simply moves the higher ends into the corner...


I know exactly what you mean. The filter on these tanks is perfectly adequate for a fish only environment, just not so good for the planted side of the hobby


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