# TMC Signature Aquarium 600mm x 450mm x 300mm Advice needed



## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Hi all, I have now decided on a tank, the TMC Signature 60x450x300. I feel it will give me more scope than the Scapers tank I was considering. I have had to revise my budget and this setup is going to cost me a lot more but at the end of the day I think its best in the long run.
Would appreciate advice on my new setup:
TMC Signature 600x450x300
Light: TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima Tile (Now changed for 2x TCM Aquabar 500 with dimmer)
Filter: Eheim Ecco Pro External Filter 2034 (Will this be up to the job?) (Have now decided on the JBL E901)
CO2: CO2Art Dual Gauged Solenoid Magnetic Valve Regulator (Advice needed on the other bits n bobs I need)
Heating: (Advice needed) (Now decided on hydor inline heater 200w)
Other: Twin star mini
I like the idea of the TMC GroBeam & Ecco Pro filter as they are cost efficient to run and hence a greener alternative.
Plants:
Hydrocotyle Tripartita
Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo"
Ammania sp. Bonsai
Eleocharis Sp mini
Frogbit
Moss Ball
Riccardia Chamedryfolia (Mini coral moss)
Fissiden Fontanus (Phoenix moss)
Fish:
Galaxy Rasboras
Corydoras panda
Dwarf gourami
Inverts:
CRS Shrimp
Bumblebee Shrimp

How does this setup sound?
Not sure on hard scape yet but may go for a mix of stone & wood.

Robbie


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## OllieNZ (23 Mar 2014)

What's the flow rate on the ecco? I have the baby one and really like it, just make sure you get a spare set of the handle clips.
If you're not sure whether it will be man enough have look at the new jbl externals. For heating look into a hydor inline.


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## allan angus (23 Mar 2014)

looks very comprehensive robbie good luck mate and have fun


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## harryH (23 Mar 2014)

I'm really jealous Robbie. What's your litres capacity on that tank? I have the Ecco 200 which is same capacity as the Pro (600 lph) but I think the older model. My tank is rated 80 ltrs so I reckon with all the hardscape etc I have nearer 60 ltrs,

The Ecco 200 I find is excellent for filtration but I do have to run a Koralia 900 in order to get the right flow/distribution. The flow on the Ecco is greatly compromised by the head as I have it under the tank and it's lifting nigh on a meter.

Harry.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Cheers for the replies guys
The tank volume is 80L and this is the spec for the filter:
For aquariums 60-130 L (13-29 UK gallons).
Pump output: 500 LPH (110 GPH)
Max Head Height: 1.4m
Energy-saving: only 5W
Media vol: 1.5 L
I'm going to make a custom stand as I want the tank at eye level when I'm crashed out on the sofa chilling and enjoying the aqua scape 
I plan on using ADA Aqua Soil Powder Amazonia over a layer of ADA Aqua Soil normal size as my substrate. I want a very small and dark grain size. Its shockingly expensive though! If anyone has a cheaper alternative very dark sand like substrate please let me know 
Also, I have seen a few vids of peeps adding substrate additives before the substrate proper, should I be adding these to my list also? My budget has already skyrocketed and if they are not essential I'd rather spend it on plants and inverts/fish.


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## OllieNZ (23 Mar 2014)

I think the filter will be on the low side flow wise. Check out the jbl e901 low power consumption (but not as low as the ecco) 900l/hr and 7l capacity. 
If you put ada powder over the normal soil it will sink in and the normal stuff will end up on top.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Thanks Ollie, I'll check out the jbl, though there are more powerful larger Eheim models in that range. Really, the powder will fall to the bottom of the larger grain? ADA's website recommended this method and said nothing about the smaller grains of the dust working they're way to the bottom! That's a bit naughty of them


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## OllieNZ (23 Mar 2014)

The largest grain will always end up on top. True of pretty much any substrate. You can also stick the normal aquasoil in a blender and make your own powder.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> The largest grain will always end up on top. True of pretty much any substrate. You can also stick the normal aquasoil in a blender and make your own powder.


Great idea Ollie! Have you tried this yourself? Would it be feasible to just use the powder version on its own?
Just had a look at the Hydor inline heater, there are only 200w & 300w versions available. Its a bit overkill for a 80L tank don't you think? I had a quick look but I did not see any other manufacturers that produce a smaller version.


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## OllieNZ (23 Mar 2014)

I've not but others on here have. I don't see why you can't use it on it's own it may go anaerobic if you go to deep with it. I don't know what sort of scape you have in mind but you could use the powder for the foreground area and the normal in the back but bear in mind that shrimp and fish will blur any  border lines fairly quickly.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

I suppose as I'm planing on a almost a full carpet you won't see the grain size anyway. Its just that I read that carpeting plants prefer the smaller grain and root much better with less chance the plant carpet will lift up. I would like to leave a border of small sand like grain for the Corydoras panda, as I believe they prefer a sand like substrate, so using the larger size and a small area of the dust type at front of the tank would work.


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## Ian Holdich (23 Mar 2014)

Can I suggest that if you're going with the tile and the mountaray bracket, that you get some practice first...this gives a lot of light. I would suggest you go with the new aquabars if you are using brackets. If you're using a suspension fitting then it's a little different.


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## Andy D (23 Mar 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> Can I suggest that if you're going with the tile and the mountaray bracket, that you get some practice first...this gives a lot of light. I would suggest you go with the new aquabars if you are using brackets. If you're using a suspension fitting then it's a little different.



Ian, do you also need an MMS rail for the aqua bar if using the stands that you have. I assume you must do but want to check as I am planning in getting them in the future to go over a 2ft tank.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Ian Holdich said:


> Can I suggest that if you're going with the tile and the mountaray bracket, that you get some practice first...this gives a lot of light. I would suggest you go with the new aquabars if you are using brackets. If you're using a suspension fitting then it's a little different.


Hi Ian, could you explain in a little more detail about getting some practice? Is the tile overly powerful for this tank?
If I was to go with the Aquabars would I need 2 or just the 1? 
Its a big investment to me, I can't really afford to change lamps at a later date.[DOUBLEPOST=1395601922][/DOUBLEPOST]Just reading this great thread about cheaper alternative substrates! 
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/akadama-a-cheap-substrate.741/


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## Ian Holdich (23 Mar 2014)

Andy D said:


> Ian, do you also need an MMS rail for the aqua bar if using the stands that you have. I assume you must do but want to check as I am planning in getting them in the future to go over a 2ft tank.



Yes mate, you need the mms rail to hang the aquabar from. 



Robbie X said:


> Hi Ian, could you explain in a little more detail about getting some practice? Is the tile overly powerful for this tank?
> If I was to go with the Aquabars would I need 2 or just the 1?
> Its a big investment to me, I can't really afford to change lamps at a later date.[DOUBLEPOST=1395601922][/DOUBLEPOST]Just reading this great thread about cheaper alternative substrates!
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/akadama-a-cheap-substrate.741/



If I was starting out in the planted hobby, I certainly wouldn't advise someone to get the 1500 without a controller. People have found that the tiles let off a high pitched whistle when using the tile at less than 100%. When the tile is used with the mountaray bracket it's way to powerful for a 30cm tank IMO. Saying that I used it at 100% intensity with a few of my scapes, but I have had a few years practice at tweaking things like c02, ferts and flow. 
You'd need two aquabars, these are plenty enough light to grow anything in the TMC signature. That way even if you was getting too much light, you could either buy the controller and manually dim them or even switch one off completely. 
I also personally prefer the colour rendition of the aquabar.


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Many thanks for the advice Ian, I was unaware that a controller could be used with the TCM lights when I posted my spec. I prefer the look of a tile but don't like the sound of it giving off high pitched noise when used with a controller!
I'll take you're advice I think and go with the bars.


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## stu_ (23 Mar 2014)

Just to add,whilst I've used Hydor inline in the past and found them to be good,there seems to be a random fault with the latest batch.I've had this confirmed by Hydor UK themselves.I don't know how far back in time this fault goes,but my unit of 7 months has recently failed.There are other examples on the forum


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

stu_ said:


> Just to add,whilst I've used Hydor inline in the past and found them to be good,there seems to be a random fault with the latest batch.I've had this confirmed by Hydor UK themselves.I don't know how far back in time this fault goes,but my unit of 7 months has recently failed.There are other examples on the forum


Cheers for the info Stu, did they respond and quickly and replace the unit without a fuss? I was also thinking the 200w minimum model is still overkill on a 80L tank? I'm trying to make the setup as energy efficient as possible and curious how the unit works. If its permanently heating a constant flow of water it would sort of defeat the point of me getting LED lighting and an echo friendly low power filter.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Mar 2014)

Robbie X said:


> Cheers for the info Stu, did they respond and quickly and replace the unit without a fuss? I was also thinking the 200w minimum model is still overkill on a 80L tank? I'm trying to make the setup as energy efficient as possible and curious how the unit works. If its permanently heating a constant flow of water it would sort of defeat the point of me getting LED lighting and an echo friendly low power filter.



I'm using the 200w on a mini M which is around 18-20L.
I'm also using an eheim Ecco on it too.

Just for reference.. 

200w should be fine mate, but I'd recommend against an Ecco. They're fantastic filters, but I'd want more grunt if it were me. What about an eheim pro 3 250?


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## Robbie X (23 Mar 2014)

Cheers for the info Nathaniel, I'm trying to keep the cost down, I'm already double the cost of my first planned tank lol.
What about the Eheim Ecco 200 or 300, I have seen the 200 for £90 and the 300 for £105, they are the larger models, the one I quoted was the 130. Link to the page below. Let me know what you think. The largest runs at just 8w! Amazing.
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/technology/external-filters/ecco-pro-200


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## bogwood (24 Mar 2014)

I have the same tank, With a 1500 tile and a External with a output of1050lph.
The plant growth is quiet extensive (if you lookat my latest pictures]
The LED is now at  70%, and i would  say the circulation is about right.

Incidentally, i must be lucky, mine does not emit a high pitched tone, not at present anyway.


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## James D (24 Mar 2014)

I've been using an Ecco 200 on my ADA 60P which is smaller than your tank and in terms of flow it's not really adequate. I just replaced it this weekend funnily enough and I can actually see my plants swaying about now. I'd suggest a minimum of 1000lph.


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## Omegatron (24 Mar 2014)

Hi Robbie,

Im using both the ecco 300 and professional 3 2071. I would suggest the 2071 over the ecco 300. It has more capacity and since you going to get a 80L aquarium the ecco will not suffice. also for me the ecco filter lost some capacity  because of the hydor inline heater attached to it. I would aim a bit higher then 800lph, the 2071 gives you 950lph.

Also OllieNZ is right about the ADA powder, while it is great to plant in, once the tank is running the powder slowly finds its way under the normal grain size. Also if everything is planted and grown in you will not see it anymore. I would save the extra money you would have to spend on the powder type and go for normal grain and use that money you just saved for a good filter


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## Robbie X (24 Mar 2014)

OllieNZ said:


> I think the filter will be on the low side flow wise. Check out the jbl e901 low power consumption (but not as low as the ecco) 900l/hr and 7l capacity.
> If you put ada powder over the normal soil it will sink in and the normal stuff will end up on top.


Just been reading reviews of the JBL, think this one will be a good alternative to the Ecco, cheers mate.


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## OllieNZ (24 Mar 2014)

Robbie X said:


> Just been reading reviews of the JBL, think this one will be a good alternative to the Ecco, cheers mate.



No worries. I have the older e1500 and really like it. I think they're still built the same just less power hungry


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## Robbie X (24 Mar 2014)

Thanks also James and Omegatron for the advice. I have been trying to work out how much ADA standard I would need to order, I'm stumped lol. Any advice most welcome, I tried using the formula mentioned in another thread but still can't work it out, I'm a little dim


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## Robbie X (24 Mar 2014)

Question regarding the TMC Aquabars, I'm planning on using the TMC AquaRay MMS MountaRay Tank Brackets, will I be able to mount Two Aquabars with just a pair of the brackets & Rails?


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