# Chihiros vivid 2 and red plants @ George farmer



## algae_connoisseur (13 Feb 2021)

Hi all, firstly, George if you are reading this I researched this light and others similar to it and made my decision. The review video you posted had a small sway on this decision so I do not hold responsible at all for my issue in any way, but I’m hoping you or someone may have the key. I  purchased the chihiros vivid 2 in October 2020.  The light is very good and I’m happy with my purchase...but.... I cannot get plants to even remotely turn red, I have tried everything from upping co2 to drastic levels, limiting nitrates, adding iron, moving light closer and farther away form surface, and intensity. Also done these in various combinations in 2 week intervals. Nothing works at all. I’m now scratching my head and cannot see why this is happening. It’s my 1st time using leds and iv always been on the side of fluorescent for planted tanks but thought let’s give them a go. In the past iv had absolutely no problem with getting plants to redden up. I have a good few various species in the tank I have h.Cuba that is doing really well so I don’t think it’s any issue relating to co2, distribution, ferts, etc. Plants all pearl within a hour of lights on and growth rate is excellent. Species I have been using as markers are, rotala rotundifolia and  Ludwigia palustris. Neither will change. Both green

Light is chihiros vivid 2 130w led rbg 
Tank 800x400x400mm approx 100litres
Ph 7.2 pre injection, 6.5 at end of photo period
Kh3-4 gh7 
Ferts delivered with ei dosing @ 10ml per day of each macros 1 day micros the next
Slightly modified mix more phosphate to control green spot algae that is almost none existent now
Co2 wise drop checker is yellow by end of photoperiod, no issues with fish, on hour before lights and off an hour before light off
Dose excel everyday apart from Sunday @ recommended dose
Iron dosed for a month, aqua vitro at stated dose level
Water change religiously every Sunday @ 50% sometimes 60% and nothing dosed that day
Photoperiod is 6 hours, half hour ramp on 40% red, 30% green, 40% blue
Fish and shrimp stock, 2 endler guppies, 5 ottos, 5 amino shrimp, 5 red cherries, 1 albino rainbow shark

So my questions are

1. Are led’s generally powerful enough to do what I want to do?
2. Am I doing something wrong that is stopping these plants turning red?
3. Is it time to sell the led (which I don’t want to) and go back down the fluorescent road?

Any help and advise would be greatly appreciated and many thanks for reading

Thanks Andy


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## Kalum (13 Feb 2021)

To cut to the chase and get it out the way, the vivid is more than powerful enough to tease out reds

Would be worth noting a few specifics to help:

What nitrate levels did you restrict to for a weekly dosing? 

You're only using the light at 37% of its max, have you tried turning it up? Have you tried a longer photo period yet? 

Get your co2 on 3-4 hours before lights to make sure it's steady through the photoperiod (you may need to turn down slightly if you're at yellow already)


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## Kalum (13 Feb 2021)

Forgot a couple of things... 

What is your starting nitrate levels if using tap water? 

What substrate and is it new or old?


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## algae_connoisseur (13 Feb 2021)

Hi Kalum, thanks for your prompt response.

nitrates are dosed via ei, so I made a new mix abs halved the nitrate level going in that way. I know this is not a permanent solution as it’s only used for photographs/showing. Nitrates in tap water don’t show on my kit, and even when I add it to the tank via ei it’s literally clear with a very very slight pink tinge.

Yes tried longer photoperiod, ended up with green water, followed by an outbreak of staghorn so binned that idea and stuck to what’s worked in past which is 6 hours.

Yellow drop checker is something iv always had, I use it as a guide rather than sitting on green as I find this isn’t accurate enough, and have had algae outbreaks because of this but yellow with no adverse effects on fish is a happy medium for me, it’s blue the next morning.

Will putting co2 on 4 hours have any benefit? Iv had tanks with no co2 injection and still managed to get rotundiflora red half way up.

substrate is new, tank set up and cycled a month before any light on. I am using black sand by seachem, with the aqua soil ground up dry to dust, small amount  water added and kneaded until it’s literally clay, flattened and used as a clay base which I have found works really really well in previous set ups. ‘Clay’ later approx 1 inch thick and black sand 3 inches deep

Thanks Andy


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## algae_connoisseur (13 Feb 2021)

This is the tank, bit cloudy as I am suspecting another green water outbreak due to increased light intensity. This will be the 2nd time it’s happened, recently the 1st time was just after Christmas, maybe I didn’t run the uv long enough to get rid of it


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## dw1305 (13 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


algae_connoisseur said:


> Nitrates in tap water don’t show on my kit, and even when I add it to the tank via ei it’s literally clear with a very very slight pink tinge.


What does the report from your water company say? The have to report nitrate levels (NO3-) in their water report because there is a regulatory limit (50  ppm (mg/L)).

Nitrate testing isn't straight forward, because of the <"solubility of nitrate containing compounds">, and because you know you've added NO3- and you still don't get a reading.

cheers Darrel


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## algae_connoisseur (13 Feb 2021)

Hi Darrel 

have been on the internet and sourced the information

nitrates 7.36 average 12.34 max and that’s out of the 50ppm. The photograph attached, the columns from left to right, are min-average-max

hope this helps

cheers Andy


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## Libba (14 Feb 2021)

I'm not sure that half of an EI dose would be considered nitrate limited. Dennis Wong keeps his nitrate below 5ppm and actually gets better reds when his nitrates are close to 0.


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## Kalum (14 Feb 2021)

As @dw1305 stated trust what you are dosing and not what the test results show as they might not be accurate, IF you are certain you are following full EI dosing then you are 30ppm nitrate at full and 15ppm at half dose, brining it under 10 and even under 5ppm as @Libba mentions above is where you want to be for brighter reds coming out

Just be careful that chasing the red dragon so to speak doesn't take over and stop you enjoying the great growth you have in that pic above, take it slow and increase bit by bit changing one thing at a time, on a similar sized tank (see link in my sig below) I ran the vivid at 70% with under 10ppm nitrates and managed to tease out some reds but nothing insane at all, if I wanted more I'd have had to reduce nitrates more but its a balancing act and you'll need to be on top of everything else or it'll soon let you know

Best advice I can give is get your tank growing with zero issues first, so co2 stable through photoperiod means optimal growth, if you have no or very little algae then start to tweak things, if you start pushing limits while your tank isn't stable its a slippery slope and a hard battle


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## algae_connoisseur (14 Feb 2021)

Thank you again kalum and Libba,

it’s very frustrating for me as iv had what I want in previous years, but under fluorescent lights. As little as 10 years ago I didn’t trust led as I thought they weren’t up to the task, but advancements in led technology made me rethink this. I just don’t know what do do now.... anyone want to buy a vivid 2 haha? I’m seriously thinking of getting a 4 t5ho suspended unit that is mainly used for more ‘illegal’ purposes. I can get the unit from various online vendors for as little as £80 which house 4 tubes. This is what I’m used to using. What about running a t5ho single tube at the back of the tank in addition to the visit 2? just to get some good light on the stems to produce the reds? I solely put the lack of reds down to led, especially if you ran @ 70% with limited nitrates and only teased some out. Without sounding like a spoilt little brat it’s not enough for me. I have Dutch look in my sights , no wood just stepped scape with plants and a good mixture of colour, but this dream is getting farther and farther away 😭


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## Ivan Stoyanov (14 Feb 2021)

I use wrg 2, which use same led as vivid 2. I have very good red when run on 100 red, 20 green and 80 blue and under 10 nitrates,  but be careful to not go to zero. Most important for me is good co2 level at light start and very good flow in tank.


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## Kalum (14 Feb 2021)

My nitrates were still high and it was new ADA Amazonia so it would have still been nutrient dense as well, I have no doubt in my mind and others have shown these are far more than up to the job and stronger lighting for reds than you could ever need on a tank this size, but I get the feeling of going back to what you know and are comfortable with

Not a spoilt brat at all, it's your time and money and your enjoyment, do what makes you enjoy the tank the most

I personally like the look of LEDs and being able to customise it, some prefer tubes. Nothing wrong with either!


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## becks (14 Feb 2021)

No problem with reds on my aquarium with a vivid 2 and my light is only 35% with a 5mm polycarbonate top  Just doing a water change and trim and took this.

default spectrum, 35% intensity, 6hr light schedule


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## Ivan Stoyanov (17 Feb 2021)

Becks,  what are default settings on vivid 2, just curious about it, because wrgb 2 doesn't have I think.


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## Wookii (17 Feb 2021)

Ivan Stoyanov said:


> Becks,  what are default settings on vivid 2, just curious about it, because wrgb 2 doesn't have I think.


Default out of the box setting on both lights are 100% all colours. The Vivid II and WRGB II have the same available standard settings, and factory set configurations to choose from. The only difference I have found is that the Vivid allows you to overdrive the various colours - e.g. if you set Green to say 80%, you can set red to 110% etc. - whereas the the WRGB doesn't.


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## Jayefc1 (17 Feb 2021)

Hi I'm not sure if you have fixed your issue with the reds but I have left nitrates out of my ei mix all together and my lights are on 90% (2 x vivid 2s) and the reds have come out in my plants


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## algae_connoisseur (17 Feb 2021)

Evening, 
Havnt been able to reply due to work. Think iv id’d the issue, nitrates in tap water, the average being 9ppm.....

@ becks yes I also have Alternanthera reineckii Rosanervig which I have no issues keeping red, I’m targeting more stems to be honest.

the default settings of the vivid2,  I’m unsure of as you control everything from the app, you cannot plug this unit in and it works, you have to download the app to get it on so unsure about that. Even when the app is on the unit doesn’t come on, it flashes blue green and red and goes off until you put some input into it. 

@Jayefc1 yes mate I’m agreeing with yourself, iv already knocked the nitrates out my mix for now, I have also now seen the report on my tap water which has a nitrate range between 6 and 14ppm, that plus me dosing it every other day via ei has brought me to the conclusion that there is too much nitrate in the water.... I also have not added any nitrate to my macro mix to see how it pans out, but my line of thinking is the same as yours


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## Serjeline (28 Nov 2021)

algae_connoisseur said:


> Hi all, firstly, George if you are reading this I researched this light and others similar to it and made my decision. The review video you posted had a small sway on this decision so I do not hold responsible at all for my issue in any way, but I’m hoping you or someone may have the key. I  purchased the chihiros vivid 2 in October 2020.  The light is very good and I’m happy with my purchase...but.... I cannot get plants to even remotely turn red, I have tried everything from upping co2 to drastic levels, limiting nitrates, adding iron, moving light closer and farther away form surface, and intensity. Also done these in various combinations in 2 week intervals. Nothing works at all. I’m now scratching my head and cannot see why this is happening. It’s my 1st time using leds and iv always been on the side of fluorescent for planted tanks but thought let’s give them a go. In the past iv had absolutely no problem with getting plants to redden up. I have a good few various species in the tank I have h.Cuba that is doing really well so I don’t think it’s any issue relating to co2, distribution, ferts, etc. Plants all pearl within a hour of lights on and growth rate is excellent. Species I have been using as markers are, rotala rotundifolia and  Ludwigia palustris. Neither will change. Both green
> 
> Light is chihiros vivid 2 130w led rbg
> Tank 800x400x400mm approx 100litres
> ...


Hello.  Did you manage to solve the problem with red plants?  Everything that you have described corresponds to my problem at the moment.  Even my volume is roughly similar - 95 liters.  I just can't get redness of rotala, ludwigia, pinnatifida.  A light similar to yours - vivid 2. My weekly nitrate dosage is now around 8 ppm.  At a lower dosage, growth practically stops.  Did you solve this problem very interestingly or did you switch to t5?


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## algae_connoisseur (28 Nov 2021)

Hi, I did yes. As jayefc1 said I stopped all nitrates in my ei dosing. If he is from Merseyside as I guess he is, our nitrates are high in the tap water. Check your tap water for nitrates. If it’s high just stop dosing nitrates. To get even better  results I also turned the light up higher than I had it in which is conflicting from what I had read online. Most had it half of what I’m running it on. 80 red, 60 green, and 70 blue. 8 hours with a 1 hour ramp up and down. Co2 is showing yellowish on the drop checker, I basically have it tuned as high as I can without stressing livestock. God knows how many bubbles as mine produces smaller ones than normal.  Ei dosing as follows for 500ml, macro 0 tsp potassium Nitrate, 2 tsp potassium phosphate (3 if I see green spot algae out of control) and 6 tsp magnesium sulphate. Micro is 1 1/2 tsp of chelated trace. I dose higher than recommended @ 15ml of each on alternate days via a Jabeo dosing pump (much easier wish I got one years ago!). Also keep another micro mix which I added 1tsp of potassium nitrate. Also dose 10ml of flourish excel daily. If I see any nitrogen deficiencies dose nitrates at 1 tsp with the separate mix mentioned. So far so good. The light is very good and after my Initial teething problems I have found it to be a very good light to grow the hardest of species. Hope this helps


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## Serjeline (28 Nov 2021)

algae_connoisseur said:


> Hi, I did yes. As jayefc1 said I stopped all nitrates in my ei dosing. If he is from Merseyside as I guess he is, our nitrates are high in the tap water. Check your tap water for nitrates. If it’s high just stop dosing nitrates. To get even better  results I also turned the light up higher than I had it in which is conflicting from what I had read online. Most had it half of what I’m running it on. 80 red, 60 green, and 70 blue. 8 hours with a 1 hour ramp up and down. Co2 is showing yellowish on the drop checker, I basically have it tuned as high as I can without stressing livestock. God knows how many bubbles as mine produces smaller ones than normal.  Ei dosing as follows for 500ml, macro 0 tsp potassium Nitrate, 2 tsp potassium phosphate (3 if I see green spot algae out of control) and 6 tsp magnesium sulphate. Micro is 1 1/2 tsp of chelated trace. I dose higher than recommended @ 15ml of each on alternate days via a Jabeo dosing pump (much easier wish I got one years ago!). Also keep another micro mix which I added 1tsp of potassium nitrate. Also dose 10ml of flourish excel daily. If I see any nitrogen deficiencies dose nitrates at 1 tsp with the separate mix mentioned. So far so good. The light is very good and after my Initial teething problems I have found it to be a very good light to grow the hardest of species. Hope this helps


Thanks for the quick response.  I use osmosis water, so nitrate in the water supply is excluded.  I restore GH with calcium and magnesium sulfates in a ratio of 1: 4, GH = 5.  Plus I add potassium carbonate for KH = 0.5.  I also use 8 hours of daylight hours and 1.5 hours of sunrise-sunset.  My settings are very similar to yours, red 75, green 60, blue 80. For the macro, I prepare the mixture in the ratio of phosphate-nitrate 1:16.  Potassium monophosphate, potassium nitrate and urea (50/50).  The weekly dosage of macro for phosphate is about 0.5 ppm, for nitrate is about 8 ppm.  I prepare micro fertilizers from individual components based on the composition of Tropica.  The weekly dosage for Fe is currently 0.4 ppm.  About a month ago I dosed 0.2 ppm Fe, but to be honest, increasing the dose did not give good results.  In addition to the absence of red, for example on rotala hra and ludvigia brevipes, there are whitish leaves on heterantera and hygrophyla polisperma.  There is an interesting point, if the sheet of the hygrophila is under the direct light of the lamp, then it turns white.  But if a part of the sheet is covered (covered) by an adjacent sheet, then if you release the sheet, I see a bright green part of the sheet.  That is, the open half of the leaf is white, and the other half, previously covered by the neighboring leaf, is green.  The same happens when the lighting power is reduced, the white leaves turn green within 15 minutes.  I think the lack of redness and whiteness in bright light is somehow related, but I can't figure out how ... The dosage of potassium is about 12 ppm per week.  Amazonia soil 2 + nutritional capsules with osmokot.  The bottom layer is lava.  CO2 drop checker warm green.  Good water circulation.  Weekly water changes from 30 to 40%.  How far from the surface of the water is your vivid 2?  You wrote that you add 2 teaspoons of potassium phosphate to a 500 ml container and dose 15 ml every other day per 100 L tank.  If I understand everything correctly, then your weekly dosage of phosphate is approximately 7 ppm.  This is very interesting as it is significantly higher than the recommended dosages.


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## algae_connoisseur (5 Dec 2021)

Hi, sorry for the late reply, work commitments. Firstly I’ll say I don’t know how to work out ppm in dosing, is this a simple equation? If so could you explain? Planted aquariums need a chemistry degree! And for newcomers to this hobby it can look very daunting. I could if I wanted to study in depth about compounds in the water, and how they themselves react with each other and plants, eg which elements do what for a plant… too much of one element inhibits the uptake of another to scratch the surface but …. Not that I don’t understand it, it’s just too much headache for me. I like a simple life. I like to enjoy the fruits of my labour, not cramming in for my next molecular biology and chemistry lessons! I have a couple of recipes for different things and i use aquarium plant foods starter pack and when 1 of the 4 bags run out, normally trace, I order a fresh pack and Chuck the old stuff out as by then it’s clumping together.  I’m unsure if I’m right here I’m probably not, your telling me that my phosphates are high, this is because it stops green spot algae running amok. I learnt of from this site actually. So if my phosphates are high at 7ppm then are  your nitrates is also high? Iv never used urea, again too much headache, simple good old potassium nitrate. I think your nitrates are high, and if memory serves me correctly I remember reading that you should be aiming for ppm of 2 or lower for nitrate. Like I said I do not dose it in any way shape or form unless I have to. I find no I’ll effects with growth at all really, yeah it slows down a little bit, but not much, I’m still Edward scissor hands every week pruning and chopping. I read my plant leaves I find this much easier. There’s plenty of information of deficiency signs in aquatic plants, there’s only a couple that look similar. I’d have phosphate higher as well 0.5ppm seems low to me… kh is another one, this is low at 0.5 not sure how you got to 0.5 as im only aware of it rising in 1 degree at a time which corresponds to drops you add?…. Low kh can cause bad ph swings, this should be higher also at about 4, at night when your plants respire they release co2, low kh won’t buffer and this could cause a ph swing that threatens inhabitants, and also sensitive plants. Amazonia soil, again sure this leaches ammonia too which ends up as more nitrate. I’m certain your nitrates are too high. This was my issue and now I have a very good looking tank

Cheers Andy


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## dw1305 (5 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


algae_connoisseur said:


> and Chuck the old stuff out as by then it’s clumping together.


You don't need to chuck it, just dry it out and it should be fine. If it is still lumpy?  run the bag over with a rolling pin.


algae_connoisseur said:


> Firstly I’ll say I don’t know how to work out ppm in dosing, is this a simple equation?


There is <"an equation">, but you may not consider it simple.


algae_connoisseur said:


> I have a couple of recipes for different things and i use aquarium plant foods starter pack and when 1 of the 4 bags run out, normally trace, I order a fresh pack


Job done.


algae_connoisseur said:


> And for newcomers to this hobby it can look very daunting.


That is why I like a <"complete fertiliser mix"> and the<"Duckweed Index">, you don't need to worry about the chemistry, just watch the plants*.

*Edit: I appreciate that some people (men) are <"red-green colour blind">, and this may add extra problems in assessing greeness.

cheers Darrel


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