# Algae with EI dosing



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

Hello all,
I am new here. First of all sorry for my bad English (I am not native speaker). I hope that we will understand each other 

Anyway, I had setup my 270 l 135x45x45cm high tech 3 months ago.
I've been using Barr's EI method to prevent algae and for good plant conditions.

On every weekend I am collecting cladophora from my Eleocharis, filament algae from xmas moss, fuzzy filamentous(soft one) from star grass. Last week I trim them,after star grass' some leafs get darken and started to die.

I am suspicious about sodium thiosulphate, I heard that when it brokes cloramine ammonia releases. But I don't know how much ammonia  iget when %50 wc?
Can it trigger algae spors.

Another issue is pale and yellowish forms of new leafs. I don't really understand why? Because I am dosing to much.
My regime is
Nitrate:35 ppm
Phospate:4.2 ppm
Potassium:25ppm
Fe:0.6ppm gluconat form as like seachem Ferrus
All my ferts are DIY.
I am using reeflowers trace as well.
I am dosing extra phospate because I saw some strange white chalky sediments on my filter hoses when I started it. After 2 weeks it pass. People saying that gluconate form of iron can bond with phosphate. I don't know how to manage it?Maybe that's the reason?

Tech:
Sunsun hw-306 1000l/h
Prodac 300watt
Lightning 2xosram 36watt cool daylight
1xosram fluora 36 watt (alike grolux for emerson effect on plants )+ 1xgrolux 36 watt all o them T8
(I was about to change it with 100 watt diy powerled but I am afraid of more algae problems)
Jbl manado+jbl aquabasis.
Plants: Heteranthera z.,hemianthus micra,cabomba aquatica,hydrocotyle l.,Eleocharis parvula and acicularis and xmas moss.

Sorry for long post.
What will be your suggestions?
Regards.


----------



## ian_m (21 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> Another issue is pale and yellowish forms of new leafs


Where is your magnesium ??? EI involves magnesium sulphate.


----------



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

ian_m said:


> Where is your magnesium ??? EI involves magnesium sulphate.


Actually according to water reports my tap water has enough hardness, and I am dosing with magnesium nitrate


----------



## ian_m (21 Jun 2017)

Please ignore you water report. That is for the companies sampling point on a particular day and not your tap water today.

Some of your pictures do look like Mg deficiency.

Also are you sure your water has chloramine added ? Use double dose thiosulphate if chloramine is present. Or single dose and aerate for a couple of hours before use. Or use something like Prime rather than thiosulphate as this will fully neutralise chloramine.


----------



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

I am not sure actually, reports only add a row about 'free chlor'but I am using aquatan's formulation to get rid of any type of chlor. Unfortunately seachem is not export any product to my country anymore and theese are pretty expensive . So maybe I think I can use vitamin c (ascorbic acid ) to dechlration what do you think?

Yes I checked it now seems like Mg deficiency as You sad, but it strange I will dose extra trace and wait, if it won't Be ok then I will purchase mgso4.
My wife gonna kill me for this passion




ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## ian_m (21 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> I can use vitamin c (ascorbic acid ) to dechlration what do you think?


Don't think that will work. Stick with thiosulphate as "free chlorine" probably just means chlorine. You can always bubble air through a storage tank of tap water for 24hours before use as that will dechlorinate very effectively. Some people report dechlorination in as little as 1/2 an hour with a decent bubble flow.

Magnesium sulphate is available as a foot soak (skin defoliator ?) from most chemists and also in garden centres as a fertiliser and ebay, which is where I get mine.


----------



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

ian_m said:


> Don't think that will work. Stick with thiosulphate as "free chlorine" probably just means chlorine. You can always bubble air through a storage tank of tap water for 24hours before use as that will dechlorinate very effectively. Some people report dechlorination in as little as 1/2 an hour with a decent bubble flow.
> 
> Magnesium sulphate is available as a foot soak (skin defoliator ?) from most chemists and also in garden centres as a fertiliser and ebay, which is where I get mine.


Thanks for your helps as soon as possible I will get some mgso4. I hope it will work. 
I know I ask too much but for only checking and erasing question mark on my mind I heard mg and fe deficiencies triggers each other and they are looking same on leafs. For gluconate dosing it bonds with phosphate I know it because chalky residue on my thank. Maybe it's not a mg deficiency,it's late phase fe deficiency that stay on old leaf. I get yellowish leafs for a while. I am confused a little bit.
Anyway I will change my Ferrus gluconate,to dtpa chelate for be sure, and Epsom salt for Mg issue.





ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## xim (21 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> So maybe I think I can use vitamin c (ascorbic acid ) to dechlration what do you think?



Yes, and this document shows how it's better than sulphur based dechlorinators: https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/05231301/05231301.html

I've been using it for yeas now.

Because:

1. I think it's better for my Cory's than Sodium Thiosulfate because they often acted like chewing something but opened the mouth more widely when I used it. And no it didn't look like they had problem about breathing, it was something else that I still don't know about.

2. There is no sulphur smell.

3. It's popular in aquaculture among people who concern about the safety when they eat the fish they keep.


----------



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

xim said:


> Yes, and this document shows how it's better than sulphur based dechlorinators: https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/05231301/05231301.html
> 
> I've been using it for yeas now.
> 
> ...


----------



## xim (21 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> I am suspicious about sodium thiosulphate, I heard that when it brokes cloramine ammonia releases.



Although I believe vitamin C is better than Sodium Thiosulphate, both release ammonia after neutralizing chloramine. If your tap contains chloramine, you should use a dechlorinator that can lock ammonia as well as neutralise chorine. Because ammonia is harmful to animals in the tank. Seachem Prime or Safe is the most economical choice.



> 2. There is no sulphur smell.
> That's what my homies looking for
> 
> How to apply vitamin c?
> ...



Unfortunately, looks like Prime of Safe (with its fart smell) is more appropriate now since your tap seems to contain chloramine. BTW, I use it with a chlorine test kit. Since the chlorine level in my tap is quite varied. But most of the time it's 0.9 gram per 165 litres. I also use Seachem Safe because occasionally there is about 1.1 PPM of ammonia in the tap. But that amount of Ascorbic Acid can take care the chlorine most of the time on its own.



Krank said:


> I am dosing extra phospate because I saw some strange white chalky sediments on my filter hoses when I started it. After 2 weeks it pass. People saying that gluconate form of iron can bond with phosphate. I don't know how to manage it?Maybe that's the reason?



Yes, that could be it. You may try iron with stronger chelator such as EDTA or DTPA. The latter has better "specs" on paper but there seem to be some low quality Fe-DTPA on the market that will precipitate with phosphate at any pH I've tried. So EDTA is a surer bet. However if you still want to use DTPA, I would recommend Dissolvine D-Fe-11. There're probably other good ones out there but I've not tried them.

Your Stargrass looks like mine when I still had not dosed Magnesium Sulphate. But since you said you're dosing Magnesium Nitrate (Mg(NO3)2.6H2O)...

Mg(NO3)2.6H2O is 9.48% Mg, and 48.37% NO3 or about 1:5.1. So for every 35 PPM of NO3, you get about 6.86 PPM of Mg (per week) which should be enough.

So I would turn attention to iron dosing.

Your dosing of Fe-Gluconate is quite low (0.6 PPM, per week?) If you take a look at Seachem Fluorish Comprehensive which uses Fe-Gluconate, you will see that its Fe content is very high compare to other iron ferts that use other kind of chelators, probably to compensate for the weak chelating effect of Gluconate.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm

I think if the 0.6 PPM is per week, it's too low. But I also don't know how much you should increase the dosing since I've never used it.


----------



## Krank (21 Jun 2017)

xim said:


> Although I believe vitamin C is better than Sodium Thiosulphate, both release ammonia after neutralizing chloramine. If your tap contains chloramine, you should use a dechlorinator that can lock ammonia as well as neutralise chorine. Because ammonia is harmful to animals in the tank. Seachem Prime or Safe is the most economical choice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



İ believe Seachem use some fancy words in this product. 
http://www.seachem.com/prime.php
In faq its saying that seachem bonds ammonia with not hazardous staff.
It came to me Hydrogen?
Because you know ammonia is not hazardous in acidic ph values. H+ maybe bonds to ammonia somehow. In the end ammonia still there.

''Prime works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramine minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume. Prime will not halt your cycling process.''

If Ascorbic asid releases some H+ when destroying the bonds with ammonia maybe it can be good way to go


https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/vitamin-c-for-chlorine-chloramine-removal.76953/

About DIY fert actually I use seachem as reference 10000 ppm solution.I made my calculation according to it. Maybe I am wrong?

I took 500 ml of water and fe gluconate(%11fe 45.5 gr) 
totally 0.5 net Fe for 500ml means 10000 ppm for 1 liter Am I wrong? 
And rotalabutterfly says 0.2-0.5 is ok for fe
For example how would be your dose?

About chelate you say something very very interesting I haven't heard that before poor quality dtpa acts like gluconate then.
In my local forum they suggest me 1kg %7 dtpa which they are still using.1kg is too much but worth to try  about EDTA I don't know there will be some chemistry for it, its not something you can pour into column directly and my tap water has alcaline ph probably I will struggle with that.
In the end if something goes wrong I will try another opportunity.

Or maybe I can throw all the things to the bucket and take some tanganyika Chiclid. 
These planted high tech, it's really make you tired until seting up the equilibrium I really get that in 3 months.





ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## xim (22 Jun 2017)

xim said:


> But most of the time it's 0.9 gram per 165 litres.



To make it more complete, actually it takes about 0.45 gram for 165 litres, I just add another 0.45 to cover any error.

And if 0.90 gram is needed to neutralise the chlorine according to my test kit, I will add another 0.45 g.



Krank said:


> İ believe Seachem use some fancy words in this product.
> http://www.seachem.com/prime.php
> In faq its saying that seachem bonds ammonia with not hazardous staff.
> It came to me Hydrogen?
> ...



NH3 (occurs in higher pH, not in acidic condition) which is the more toxic form, become toxic to fish at 0.05 PPM and above. (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa031)

NH4+, which is 100 times safer, occurs in lower pH.

But it seems you already know that, just mistyped it.

After all, I still recommend using a dechlorinator that can handle ammonia. Because the resulting pH after dechlore is still uncertain. Last year I lost a green neon because of the ammonia. That's the reason I'm using Seachem Safe with Ascorbic Acid. I could use Safe alone but it would take a high amount to neutralise the chlorine in my tap. Using Ascorbic Acid with it helps cut the cost down.




Krank said:


> About DIY fert actually I use seachem as reference 10000 ppm solution.I made my calculation according to it. Maybe I am wrong?
> 
> I took 500 ml of water and fe gluconate(%11fe 45.5 gr)
> totally 0.5 net Fe for 500ml means 10000 ppm for 1 liter Am I wrong?
> ...



The PPM number looks right but only when you're using Fe-DTPA or Fe-EDTA. Try calculating how many PPM of Fe you get from dosing Flourish Comprehensive according to Tom's guide. Flourish Comprehensive contains about 4.5x more Fe than Tropica's liquid fert in the same volume.



Krank said:


> About chelate you say something very very interesting I haven't heard that before poor quality dtpa acts like gluconate then.
> In my local forum they suggest me 1kg %7 dtpa which they are still using.1kg is too much but worth to try  about EDTA I don't know there will be some chemistry for it, its not something you can pour into column directly and my tap water has alcaline ph probably I will struggle with that.
> In the end if something goes wrong I will try another opportunity.



You refuse to use Fe-EDTA because your tap is alkaline. But you still use Gluconate? That's weaker than EDTA, nah. 

For Fe-DTPA, it's the 7% Fe-DTPA that precipitated in my test. Actually, even Fe-EDDHA cannot be trusted until tested.
https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/need-help-with-lush-max-ferts.49577/

Try mixing it with KH2PO4 and see.


----------



## ian_m (22 Jun 2017)

Well actually the use of ascorbic acid (or citric) acid to dechlorinate water is actually something taken out of context and assumed to be always true, false news ????

I think the origins came from New York Municipal water, if I remember correct, in the 90's (and repeated around 2005 by US park service ??) where chloramine was first being used and people were complaining about chlorine smell/taste of water. They recommend adding "vitamin C" to a bath full of water to dechlorinate it. It only worked as the water they were talking about was soft. The vitamin C (ascorbic acid) lowered the pH and the chlorine reacts (in solution as hypochlorous acid) to form hydrochloric acid, chloramine decomposes to hydrochloric acid and ammonia. The ammonia is the real issue for fish keepers, though hydrochloric acid can't be recommended either. The hydrochloric acid generally react with contaminants quite quickly so is generally not an issue. The ammonia can be removed by aeration for a couple or hours.

However, most tap water is not soft and the ascorbic acid simply reacts with the carbonates and hydrogen carbonates in the water and has little effect on the chlorine levels (classic pH buffering). Note also the presence of ascorbic acid & carbonates effect hobby grade test kits thus will give a false low reading of chlorine levels, thus you may think you have dechlorinated, but in fact you haven't. So to use ascorbic acid successfully you should either know your water hardness before starting, measure the pH as you add it or just add in excess (which is what home brewers do).

Much better is sodium thiosulphate which is not affected by water hardness and takes out chlorine into relatively harmless reactants (ok one is sodium hydroxide, but that will react out quickly), will also remove chloramine but requires a larger dose. It is also not toxic to aquatic organisms. Thiosulphate is used by industry to dechlorinate water.

For those of you interested the reactions are:

















I thought dechlorination using ascorbic acid had long since gone, but I see it still being used as if it works .


----------



## Krank (22 Jun 2017)

xim said:


> To make it more complete, actually it takes about 0.45 gram for 165 litres, I just add another 0.45 to cover any error.
> 
> And if 0.90 gram is needed to neutralise the chlorine according to my test kit, I will add another 0.45 g.
> 
> ...



About my gluconate there is another 2 possibility came in my mind? Could it be expired?
Because I haven't put it in refrigerator after I use.only I add some  citric acid to ph down.maybe that wasn't good enough?

Another issue I have added extra phosphat to eliminate my spot algae. Until that, coloration was good I am suppose.Probably my phosphat crossed with iron, and phosphate took all the iron inside?And 1 month later probably some deficiencies has started

I have ordered new dtpa chelated iron from an agriculture site. Lots of peeps using it in my country for iron. And the guy who suggest to me this product convinced me about its quality. I sad to him my water has TDS about 160 he sad his water harder than mine and his pearlweed and baby tears are in good condition I saw really got jealous about it I confess.

Another strategy maybe I can make a gluconate dose on sunday after wc. To ensure about phospahate and hardness issue. And further days if I see some good leafs I can go on gluconate and dtpa like this. 
One way or another I hope I can handle it.

Probably I will go on with thiosulphate and water aeration.
Seachem doesn't export its product here anymore. And even if it is; it is really expensive in our country think  you are buying 1 liter of solution for 80£. Unfortunately expensive.

Ok beyond fert issue about algae , 
İ realised that people keep saying that much more co2. But i have always my drop checker phosphorus yellow. Not even any green. 3 bps for 8 hours a day. Day and night always in this yellow condition. Do I need to increase the bps or hours what should I do?

ASAP I will have a circulation pump or headpump inside for good circulation.

I will change my old fashioned t8 with powerled but I am afraid more algae.









ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## Krank (22 Jun 2017)

ian_m said:


> Well actually the use of ascorbic acid (or citric) acid to dechlorinate water is actually something taken out of context and assumed to be always true, false news ????
> 
> I think the origins came from New York Municipal water, if I remember correct, in the 90's (and repeated around 2005 by US park service ??) where chloramine was first being used and people were complaining about chlorine smell/taste of water. They recommend adding "vitamin C" to a bath full of water to dechlorinate it. It only worked as the water they were talking about was soft. The vitamin C (ascorbic acid) lowered the pH and the chlorine reacts (in solution as hypochlorous acid) to form hydrochloric acid, chloramine decomposes to hydrochloric acid and ammonia. The ammonia is the real issue for fish keepers, though hydrochloric acid can't be recommended either. The hydrochloric acid generally react with contaminants quite quickly so is generally not an issue. The ammonia can be removed by aeration for a couple or hours.
> 
> ...



Good explanation thank you very much. I am convinced with calculations. Very logical and practical. Ammonia is not a issue then if we keep our ph below 7. Little amount of HCL from thiosulphate can help it maybe. I like it.


I will order some tds and ph meter to check my water.

Problem of leafs is iron deficiency and related mg deficiency.

With dtpa we will get the hang of it. But for algae what do you think? How much co2 is enough for me I am dosing 8 hours with 3 bps
But I have always phosphorus yellow indicator.
It is really strange?



ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## dw1305 (22 Jun 2017)

Hi all, 





Krank said:


> In faq its saying that seachem bonds ammonia with not hazardous staff.


I have a real problem with Seachem, and their explanations of what their products contain, and how they function. 

Have a look at <"Prime">. The "Amquel" patent (US8153165) is here <"Preparation and use for reducing the damaging effect of ammonia on organisms living in water">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## xim (22 Jun 2017)

ian_m said:


> The ammonia can be removed by aeration for a couple or hours.



Please tell me this is mistyped.



ian_m said:


> However, most tap water is not soft and the ascorbic acid simply reacts with the carbonates and hydrogen carbonates in the water and has little effect on the chlorine levels (classic pH buffering).



Please show a reference about that. Yes, Ascorbic Acid will react to water hardness. But, it doesn't seem to "drastically" reduce the effectiveness of it dechlorination capacity. All that I could find is when using it with chloramine, the pH will defy chance of getting ammonia or ammonium.



ian_m said:


> Note also the presence of ascorbic acid & carbonates effect hobby grade test kits thus will give a false low reading of chlorine levels, thus you may think you have dechlorinated, but in fact you haven't.



Well, by this logic, the test kit is also useless with Sodium Thiosulphate as well. So we should trash the kit and dose it in certain amount, cross fingers and hope for the best? Nah, I will continue using the test kit as a guide.



ian_m said:


> I thought dechlorination using ascorbic acid had long since gone, but I see it still being used as if it works .



It's still being used widely in 2017 although not as popular as Sodium Thiosulphate (and probably won't be) since it is much cheaper in industrial scale. However for our use, with the price as low as £0.99 per 35 grams of Ascorbic Acid powder which could last almost a year for me, it's non-issue.


----------



## xim (22 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> Seachem doesn't export its product here anymore. And even if it is; it is really expensive in our country think  you are buying 1 liter of solution for 80£. Unfortunately expensive.



This eBay shop ships worldwide with very reasonable shipping cost, I also bought mine from them. A 250g can last me almost 5 years. It is the powder form of Prime.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seachem-Saf...275790&hash=item5d6092da9b:g:MEoAAOSwgApXAsK3


----------



## Juraj C. (22 Jun 2017)

Krank said:


> But for algae what do you think? How much co2 is enough for me I am dosing 8 hours with 3 bps
> But I have always phosphorus yellow indicator.
> It is really strange?


I think your filter doesn't have enough strength to deliver nutrients and co2 in all parts of your tank.
With high energy tank you should be aiming at turnover rate of 10 so a 2700l/hour.
Your filter will run all your water through it at most 3 times per hour and i doubt it is enough.
Put the drop checker close to substrate in area where you have algae and see if you get the same results.


----------



## Krank (22 Jun 2017)

xim said:


> This eBay shop ships worldwide with very reasonable shipping cost, I also bought mine from them. A 250g can last me almost 5 years. It is the powder form of Prime.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seachem-Saf...275790&hash=item5d6092da9b:g:MEoAAOSwgApXAsK3


http://www.businessinsider.com/paypal-is-shutting-down-in-turkey-2016-6

And PayPal is not operating 
Sad but true.




ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## Krank (22 Jun 2017)

Juraj C. said:


> I think your filter doesn't have enough strength to deliver nutrients and co2 in all parts of your tank.
> With high energy tank you should be aiming at turnover rate of 10 so a 2700l/hour.
> Your filter will run all your water through it at most 3 times per hour and i doubt it is enough.
> Put the drop checker close to substrate in area where you have algae and see if you get the same results.



I put my dc in my shrimp thank that oxygen rich to check bromtymol blue is still operating.

Probably it will change completely within 2 hours. After that again will be put in death point in my tank.

For circulation You are right I need one of them but which type I don't know circulation pump or headpump or wave maker  .peeps talking like they are different things, .

I have a sunsun 2000 l per hour headpump for water changes.
When i put it inside blows the soil up 
Makes 3000 l per hour circulation.
Maybe I need only 1000 l per hour engine.



ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## Mortis (2 Jul 2017)

If you have Lab chemical suppliers close by you can try getting sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate and use that as a dechlorinator. It takes care chlorine, chloramines and ammonia. 25gms in 500ml water and then one drop per litre of new water for normal dosage.


----------



## Krank (3 Jul 2017)

Mortis said:


> If you have Lab chemical suppliers close by you can try getting sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate and use that as a dechlorinator. It takes care chlorine, chloramines and ammonia. 25gms in 500ml water and then one drop per litre of new water for normal dosage.


Thank You, if I find it I'll try

ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## Doubu (3 Jul 2017)

This is getting quite scientific... which I am not that great with haha. Here are my thoughts:

From my experience with trial and error, algae is almost always a result of poor plant growth and excessive nutrients. It's good to do EI dosing, but it can be dangerous... If you have too much nutrients in the water and your plants don't use it, something will - that's algae. I would recommend lessening your light period to 5-6 hours along with reducing the intensity, doing a full WC and stopping your EI dosing. Examine how your plants react to this after a week... if your algae starts to die, then thats when I would play with either your lighting or CO2. You can try upping your CO2 and seeing what changes after a week. The key here is to find the right balance between lighting period/co2 that your plants are happy with first. Then you can do EI dosing because you know with your current light period, plants are growing and algae is not. Now you make sure that they have the nutrients they need to be happy.

Edit// Forgot to mention, aim for a gH level of 3-4. You can use Seachem equilibrium to do this.


----------



## Krank (3 Jul 2017)

Ok ,i got a sunsun wavemaker 3 days ago and up my co2 levels. It seems ok.Cladophra seems dying and hair algae is still resisting a little bit.
I'll make a mechanical cleaning again for see the results.
I changed my iron fert gluconate to DTPA. Plants seems better,no carditge runout effect on plants anymore  ) I hope they will get better.
Everything seems ok right now except heat. My country it's really hot nowadays, yesterday I lost one of my otto, today i found my neons gasping, i am about to complete 99 watts powerled armature, so there will be another opportunity for diy fan cooling to place it on my tank.

ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## ian_m (3 Jul 2017)

Doubu said:


> If you have too much nutrients in the water and your plants don't use it, something will - that's algae


Not true.

I had a timer failure and my macro dosing pump stay on dosing my tank to about 300ppm NO3, 80ppm PO4, 50ppm Mg. Was quite a few days before I realised, as there was absolutely no change in plants and no change in fish behaviour.

Did 50% water change, then followed by normal weekly water changes (whilst still dosing EI).

No change in algae levels, no magic monster growth of plants, no change in fish behaviour. So over dosing EI macro has no effect other than wasting 1litre of double strength EI salts .


----------



## Doubu (3 Jul 2017)

ian_m said:


> Not true.
> 
> I had a timer failure and my macro dosing pump stay on dosing my tank to about 300ppm NO3, 80ppm PO4, 50ppm Mg. Was quite a few days before I realised, as there was absolutely no change in plants and no change in fish behaviour.
> 
> ...



Ah, timer failure as in your lights were on for way too long? Or as in there was no light at all? If there was no light then there would be no issue... but if you have strong lighting, something will use that energy if the plants don't. I haven't used the type of lighting Krank has before, but from what I've read it seems like those setups are very strong.

I had a "test" at my workplace where the light was left on for 12 DAYS (at least) straight and all kinds of algae took over (especially brown diatoms). Once this was fixed (along with no dosing) - tank cleared up after 3 weeks. If Krank's plant mass isnt healthy, the excessive/strong lighting is going to do more harm than good. The easiest thing when fighting algae for me has always been to reduce lighting period/intensity... No issues lately (knock on wood). When using strong lighting, I always try to add a ton of plants and especially those that will block a lot of light.


----------



## Krank (3 Jul 2017)

Barr mentioned that before,co2 as fuel, lightning as gas pedal. I made my leds almost 100 watt to grow some HC in the future maybe. Actually my plants is not demanding right now so probably it will run at 2/3 power which means 66 watts.
Anyway i saw so many people using powerfull lightning to grow HC or other kind of carpet plant. These people are dosing with ei and use co2 for their tank. 
I am not thinking excess dosing cause algae issue anymore, if water has lack of nutrient for example spot algea shows up with lack of phosphate.

Cladophora and other filaments shows up with lack of co2. I saw with my eyes within 10days it  Is getting weeker    day by day because i tweak my co2 settings.
What I understand is Its just a equilibrium issue, if you are using 4 or more wpg and no co2 you will get bunch of algae. Newbie or not I think mostAquarist struggling with that at beginning of tank. 

ASUS_Z002 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi


----------



## ian_m (3 Jul 2017)

Doubu said:


> Ah, timer failure as in your lights were on for way too long?


No timer failure as in dumped 1 litre of double strength EI macro mixture into my tank. No change of other timing, lights micros etc.


----------

