# Return of the Shallow



## Tim Harrison

I've given up on finding a taller tank with decent silicone work that fits my IKEA hacked stand, well at least for now, and have brought the shallow back in to service.

This decision is in no small measure also due to my recent visit to Destination Aquatics in Bedfordshire where I found a great peace of DW; a eucalyptus root.
Time to start scaping again


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## zozo

Wow! That's a unique find! Perfect for this dimension.. And Eucalyptus root? Interesting, never seen it around.. Does it make the tank smell like Wrigleys spearmint when soaked?... That would be a surprice..


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...not so far, I've just jet washed it. 
Yeah, it's a good fit.


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## zozo

Absolutely one of a kind piece.  Been looking for something like that since i'm back in the hobby.. Perfect for a cave dwelling/breeding sp. like Apistograma or kribs, with the cave as focal point smack in the middle. This realy could be a spectacular display with breeding apisto's.. With some nice emersed growth on it ofcourse. Can't wait to see how this developes.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, I'm kind of envisioning the root embedded in rock, but it's a tricky manoeuvre to pull of so it looks convincingly natural.


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## zozo

With that piece it is..  In genral finding pieces that fit together.. Mother nature takes decades to make it look like what we try to acheive in a few weeks.


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## CooKieS

Nice dw


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## Juraj C.

Wow, that looks great.
What are the tank dimensions?


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## AverageWhiteBloke

I don't think you need look for another tank. Everything you have there looks like it came part of a kit. Very nice.


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## Nelson

Tim Harrison said:


> my recent visit to Destination Aquatics in Bedfordshire


I've just got a great stump from there .
I thought I saw you ducking down hiding,trying to avoid me  .


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> With that piece it is..  In genral finding pieces that fit together.. Mother nature takes decades to make it look like what we try to acheive in a few weeks.


Nice image, thanks for posting...quite inspirational really. I'm doing my best to imitate Mother Nature...not sure if I'm succeeding tho'


CooKieS said:


> Nice dw


Thanks, It was love at first sight


Juraj C. said:


> Wow, that looks great.
> What are the tank dimensions?


Thank you, the tank is only 60x40x25(h)cm


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I don't think you need look for another tank. Everything you have there looks like it came part of a kit. Very nice.


 thanks...I think they were made for one another


Nelson said:


> I've just got a great stump from there .
> I thought I saw you ducking down hiding,trying to avoid me  .


Haha...no way 
What've you got planned Neil?


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## rebel

Looking forwatd to this one.

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## Tim Harrison

A work in progress...


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## AverageWhiteBloke

If replicating nature is your goal I think you've pretty much smashed it there. Looks like everything grew there.


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## jon nash

nice dw and stone didn't know eucalyptus was used


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## steevwatson

That looks fantastic! Can't wait to see the finished scape.

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## Nelson

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...no way
> What've you got planned Neil?


Did you edit that ?.I'm sure it said run away from me .
Anyway,just another boring blackwater scape .


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## Tim Harrison

Nelson said:


> Did you edit that ?.I'm sure it said run away from me


Who me?...nooo
I wouldn't be so rude
Seriously tho' you weren't there at the same time...were you? 


Nelson said:


> Anyway, just another boring blackwater scape .


That's an awesome stump...wish I'd bought that as well.
Btw your blackwater scapes are never boring 

@rebel, @AverageWhiteBloke, @jon nash, and @steevwatson, thanks for your kind comments guys


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## Daveslaney

Looks great Tim.


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## Million

This looks like it's going to be a stunner. The way you've placed the rocks does look very natural and uncontrived. What substrate are you going for?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Million and @Daveslaney.

Nearly there...


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## Nelson

Very nice .
What's the planting plan ?.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Neil...I think a mixed carpet - Stauro, Monte Carlo, Hydrocotyle sp. Japan, and maybe a couple of others.
There are quite big planting pockets at the back where I'd like some colour so Rotala 'H’ra', Rotala wallichii, Rotala green.
On the rocks and DW a combination of small buces and mosses.
The top of the stump is hollow so some emergent growth as well, maybe small ferns, Crypts etc.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

It looks like it will be quite difficult to get some flow round everywhere mind you.


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## Tim Harrison

Yeah, I think you're right about that. The back left is going to be a bit of a dead spot...I might invest in an Eheim Skim 350 tho' which will solve that problem


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Definitely, I've done a similar thing, found a tip using loom bands on the intake to prevent small fish and shrimp being hoovered up by it. I can also strongly recommend the APS surface skimmer as well although I noticed there are very similar chinese versions of the same on auction sites. Pros and cons, the eheim tends to go longer without needing cleaned as it has a larger sponge in, however, on the eheim you need to take it to bits to clean the sponge whereas the APS you can just use the planting tweasers to remove the sponge from the top without removing the body out of the tank but with the size of the sponge you will probably need to do this every couple of days, the eheim I get away with weekly.  The thing I like about the APS one is it comes with a little grill on where as the eheim needs modified to prevent fish losses. The APS also has a venturi so at night you can open the valve and pump some o2 in and close it again in the morning. Another positive for the APS other than its half the price is it runs on 3watt of power compared to the 5watt on the eheim, probably doesn't concern you that much but things like that annoy me 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aquarium-S...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B01M0LZ8N5


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## zozo

Your years of experience and collecting realy shows off..  It fits like a glove..


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## Tim Harrison

@Million, forgot to answer your question, I'm going with Amazonia, but only because I've already got it...next time I'll probably go with Tropica.
@AverageWhiteBloke, thanks for all the info
@zozo thanks Marcel...like I said elsewhere 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration


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## PARAGUAY

It seems with Amazonia there is less room for error with liquid frets or it claims, so why do think Tropica next time Tim?


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## Tim Harrison

Main reason is it's easier to come by in the UK, that is without incurring P&P costs. Other than that, i maybe wrong but, I think essentially when it comes to the better of the well known brands there isn't really that much to choose between them...they all make fairly similar claims.


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## PARAGUAY

Thanks Tim , I got some Tropica P@H, been buying the small bags when I  visit


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## Tim Harrison

@PARAGUAY No worries. Just to be clear though I meant Tropica "Aquarium Soil" which is an all in one substrate like Amazonia...not Tropica "Plant Growth Substrate" which requires capping.


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## Tim Harrison

Finally got the Amazonia in, regular and powder...


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## alto

Oddly this puts me in mind of the "original" rock work in Windswept (before it became Windswept  ) - liked it then & even better now 

I suggest you look for a custom 60 x 40 rather than going back to the 60 x 30 dimensions of ADA 60P, a beautiful tank but I always wish it had those extra 10cm depth


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks alto. Yes you're right about the depth it makes a lot of difference. When I started scaping as a kid, way back when it wasn't called scaping, I used to wish I had a tank with greater depth.
I've found a guy on eBay called NACDesign and he sent me some pics of his work...he's not cheap tho', and after the time I've had with APS I'm in no hurry


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## zozo

That's one hell of a kit job!! I wish i can pull that off on my next one.


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## GHNelson

Love the scape Tim...
Ikea cabinet any information on it?
Cheers


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> That's one hell of a kit job!! I wish i can pull that off on my next one.


Non too shabby


hogan53 said:


> Love the scape Tim...
> Ikea cabinet any information on it?
> Cheers



Thanks hoggie, yes it's all here scroll down for the info https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/windswept-eternity.37490/page-7

P.S. btw it's an IKEA Besta cabinet.


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## alto

If it's easily done you might try boiling part of the eucalyptus root - some species are reported benign in aquaria while others have reports of profound toxicity ... any idea which species this is?

(apologies had this thought earlier but forgot to mention  )


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks alto, I've no idea what species it is. I hope its the benign sort. 
Keith a fellow mod on ASW is an Aussie and can pick it up from the river bank, he calls it Murray River Gum which is _Eucalyptus camaldulensis. _
I hope it's not that species either since he can't get epiphytes to grow on it...probably something to do with allelochemicals.


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> .probably something to do with allelochemicals.


Or just simply to fresh..  The older and softer the wood the fermer they can and will attach. In nature epiphytes grow on bark or rather aged wood.. I've noticed it with Spiderwood i use emersed it took me over a year to finaly get some mosses surviving on it. The orchid i planted to it died wihin months, couldn't keep it moist enough with sphagnum only. This wood is to hard and to fresh to hold any water for longer than a few minutes. It stands emersed opun another submersed piece of wood. It very slowly soakes water up, each month a few milimeters higher. Where mosses have grown by now are actualy also helping i guess.. Very gradualy i see the moss climbing up and the wood soaks the water a milimeter higher then the moss. The moss follows.. A creepy multi year project.

I have some pieces of spiderwood in little closed bottles. Also over a year now, still can't get mossos to grow to it.

Even submersed i noticed significant differences in how fermly epiphytes attach, one tank contains Opuwa, a very dry and hard Savana wood from afrika, probably never got wet all the time laying around before collected. it was very fresh and very hard. Everything attaches rather loosly, i've nocked my fair share plants off the wood doing maintenance. And the other tank i got Mopani, also a African savana wood, but it was stored outside for years at the LFS backyard and was rather weathered and way softer. Something we like to avoid, but i did it anyway, noticed the epiphytes grow beter and attach more fermly to it. It also leached as hell for over a year, but had no further issues. Its a low tech and it grew more mosses to it in a shorter periode than the high tech with fresh Opuwa ever did.


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## zozo

Look who i found here..  in a almost 10 year old topic on Eucalyptus...
http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/jacaranda-and-eucalyptus.8330/


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, I'm sure it'll be OK it's well dead and dried out, and seems to have been for a very long time


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## leetaylor

Whats in the glass ball next to it? looks intresting!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Lee, it's a Wabi-Kusa https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cryptocoryne-wabi-kusa.49760/


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## Tim Harrison

Holidays are as good as over, so my attention has returned to the shallow.
I rejigged the right hand side of the scape a bit, and then got busy with the glue gun and added a bit more wood.
The carpet plants arrived today as well, along with some mini Christmas moss and Pelia, so I'll do some planting tomorrow.
I'm going to try the dry start method with this scape. The level substrate should lend itself to DSM pretty well


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## doylecolmdoyle

Killer! cant wait to see more!


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## zozo

This already is art as it is..  It reminds of my dentist, he has some art work sculptures standing in his waiting room made out of different pieces of driftwood. This scape could fit right in without a doubt.


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## imak

Awesome scape.

The glue you use, is it the normal one or is it special? 

Enviado do meu HUAWEI GRA-L09 através de Tapatalk


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## zozo

Ah!! Now i get it.. I though what the hell is that hair dryer for?? But it's a glue shooter..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Guys. 
@zozo haha...yep Marcel it's a hot glue gun. I've never used one before - only managed to burn myself twice  
It's the perfect tool for the job. Wood to wood really bonds, not so much wood to rock though, but still good enough.
@imak, nothing special, just clear glue sticks. I'm sure when the glue is dry it's pretty much inert.


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## Tim Harrison

Soaked, planted, and cling-filmed...


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## doylecolmdoyle

Looks good, what plants have you used here?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks, it's a mixture of Stauro, Monte Carlo, and Hydrocotyle sp. Japan.
And on the hardscape mini Christmas moss (I hope...its in its emersed state so difficult to tell at the mo') and Pelia, which has been grown immersed, so not sure how it'll do.


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## alto

Where did you collect the extra wood - more eucalyptus?

Looks fantastic


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks alto, the extra wood is manzi.


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## alto

It blends in very well - funny how different "manzanita" is, local supply is all rounded branches, none of that "scalloped" root

Be interesting to see how the UG grows, someone had linked Oliver Knotts pbase site recently with his UG scape, I'd never seen it grow like that


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks, I think both types of wood work fairly well together.
Not sure what you mean about the UG, did you mean the mini Christmas moss on the DW? It's a similar colour.


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## alto

My bad - I have Utricularia graminifolia stuck in mind for some reason


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## Tim Harrison

I did think about using it, but I always kill it  
So I decided to give it a miss this time


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## zozo

I now see that wood is hollow at the top near the surface..  That's interesting.. Can't wait to see what's up with that..


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## Tim Harrison

I'm going to fill the hollow with Tropica substrate and plant it up as well, nothing too big probably just some small micro type ferns. I'd welcome any suggestions


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> some small micro type ferns.



?? I guess you won't have much to go on with that.. It's likely to wet for non marsh sp. so when it comes to ferns we are kinda stuck with Microsorum sp. and Bolbitis sp. or maybe Adiantum if it should be emersed from the get-go. But even the last one are rather dificult diva's among the ferns. 

Hard to see from the pictures perspective how the situation is in relation to the water surface. Is it close under or slightly over and emersed? Also do not realy see the relation between fertilized tropica soil and epiphytic ferns, since the rhizome should never be covered for that type of plant. Makes me curious what your thoughts on the tropica soil are..


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## Tim Harrison

Yeah know what you mean, I haven't really formulated any definite plans yet, just some loose ideas, that clearly need some more thought 
As far as ferns go I was thinking along the lines of Bolbitis heteroclita "difformis" and Crepidomanes cf. malabaricum. 
And although not a fern _Hygrophila pinnatifida_.


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## zozo

Maybe in combination with something grassy to play with different textures.  Eleocharis, actualy does pretty good emersed, it is sold potted (acicularis and viviparus i've seen) on dirt in pond shops as marginal pond plant. Or a small Cyperus.. Or maybe a Ophiopogon japonicus sold in about every LFS as aquariumplant but isn't. I still got one above the tank on the wood. But this one definitively needs soil, mine feeds from the water column and still is mini, not growing not dying.


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## gltjc

Fantastic job with the roots! Are you just using standard hot glue to put them together?


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## Tim Harrison

@zozo You've got me thinking now Marcel. I like the idea of more than a few different textures rubbing shoulders, but on a small scale. There was a tiny rush I saw in Destination Aquatics, frustratingly I can't remember its name, its cultured in-vitro by the Italian growers Anubias.
I'm a bit wary of buying plants from the pond section for use in an aquarium...I've bought emersed Eleocharis before and found several leeches in amongst the roots and mud


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## Tim Harrison

gltjc said:


> Fantastic job with the roots! Are you just using standard hot glue to put them together?


Thanks, that's kind of you to say so. Yes just standard clear glue sticks


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> I'm a bit wary of buying plants from the pond section for use in an aquarium



More meant it as inspirational source, seeing what they offer and if it does good in the garden in our summer climate, i guess it likely does equaly good emersed above an aquarium or wabi kusa indoors. And i was pleasantly surpriced to see how much tropical aquarium plants also are to be found in pondshops and already in rather mature sizes sometimes even flowering already. The ones i had in my hands and remember are Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, Myriophyllum brasiliensis, different kinds of Rotalas, different kinds of Eleocharis. There likely are even more i do not know the name of. . I can imagine your worries about using these plant, tho i'm already swapping back and forth from pond to tank for years now, never realy had an issue with what so ever. But never say never even tho i clean it very well and spray it with peroxide. 

Another funny aspect is, in the pond shop i buy a pot fully matured large bush of 20 cm long Eleocharis acularis flowring for €2.95 and in the LFS a little pot 1/5 in pot size 4 cm juvenile for €4.95.


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Another funny aspect is, in the pond shop i buy a pot fully matured large bush of 20 cm long Eleocharis acularis flowring for €2.95 and in the LFS a little pot 1/5 in pot size 4 cm juvenile for €4.95.


I know, that surprised me too, they are definitely better value for money


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## zozo

Hymenasplenium obscurum- Living Waters - Emersed Grown ??
 They still have the emersed form in stock.. No idea how humid sensitive it is..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for that Marcel, another one on the list.


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## Tim Harrison

The DSM (dry start method) seems to be working well...so far. The methodology has been:

1. Firstly, I added water to a level just below the surface of the substrate, and aim to keep it that way; spraying every day can raise the water level above the top of the substrate.
2. I've kept the tank sealed with clingfilm, but have let fresh air in for 5 minutes every day to replace the old stagnant air, hopefully this will prevent mould.
3. The plants have been sprayed on a daily basis with a dilute fertz solution, about 1ml TNC Complete per 0.33 of a litre; that's the capacity of my sprayer.

It's been around 10 days since the carpet was planted and I'm fairly pleased with the growth rate.
The moss has taken hold as well and appears to be growing; I was worried it wasn't getting enough moisture.
I've also pinched out the tops of the _Staurogyne repens,_ hopefully this will encourage side shots and quicker coverage.


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## alto

Inspiring 

Almost motivates me to EFFORT


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...thanks alto


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## Samjpikey

Great looking tank there. 
 When you say you've pinched out the tops of the staurogyne repens do you literally take the top off ? 
Do you replant these tops ? 
Cheers 

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## Tim Harrison

@Samjpikey thanks. Yes, I just pinch out the apical meristem or the top most shoot. If you take it out a bit further down with a few leaves you can take off the bottom leaves and that gives you enough stem to replant if you like as well. 

It's just like taking normal cutting really. Or pretty much the same as cutting your stems down to size and replanting the tops. _Staurogyne repens _will root and grow readily like any other stem.


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## Paulo Soares

Hello Tim, 

Excelent journal and learning. This "Stau" is a tricky one plant  

Can´t wait to see this fully running! 

Really Good stuff Tim. I do love your work. 

Best regards.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Paulo


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## Tim Harrison

Well it's been around 30 days since I started the DSM, and I think I'm almost there.
Maybe another couple of weeks or so and I'll be planting the stems and placing the buces in to cracks and crevices, and then...flooding


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## Samjpikey

This is great 

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## Nelson

Don't think I'd want to put water in now .Looks good as it is.


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## Ryan Thang To

Wow. Lovely setup. I Really like the moss.


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## foxfish

Tim Harrison said:


> I'll be planting the stems and placing the buces in to cracks and crevices


Hi Tim, is there a reason not to include the buces in the DSM?


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## Tim Harrison

@Samjpikey Thanks 
@Nelson thanks Neil. Haha, me neither, I quite like it the way it is...especially since there's no water changes, algae etc, the ultimate low-maintenance, low-energy scape.
@Ryan Thang To Thanks Ryan
@foxfish Yes, I've got my eye on a Brownie Series Collection from the guy I usually buy my buces from on eBay, he grows them immersed so I didn't want to transition them twice. 
But absolutely, they would have been fine to grow in DSM otherwise, and had they been grown emersed they'd be in there already.


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## Daveslaney

Loooks great Tim.
What moss is that?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Dave, I'm hoping the spiky light green moss is mini Christmas moss, I guess it's a variety of _Vesicularia dubyana_, but it's difficult to tell since it's in the emersed form.
The other is Pelia, _Monosolenium tenerum..._I also hope_ _


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## Chrispowell

Absolutely stunning, the scape is incredibly detailed and replicates a tiny chunk of nature perfectly. Incredible.

Great planting too, love the selection.

Oh and great pictures, can't wait for the next update! 

Chris


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Chris, that's very kind of you


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## doylecolmdoyle

Looking great, such fast growth! Any tricks here? How long are you running your lights?


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## Keith GH

Tim

I do not like posting short replies but yours is just one word  FANTASTIC.

Keith


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## zozo

doylecolmdoyle said:


> Any tricks here?



If i'm not mistaken, it looks like he plays Rapsody in Green all day long. 
Looks awsome!!..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks very much guys, it means a lot coming from such accomplished hobbyists as yourselves.

@doylecolmdoyle no tricks really, light is on 100% intensity for 12 hours a day, suspended about 20cm from the top of the tank. the plants get sprayed once a day with a weak solution of TNC Complete about 3ml per litre.
I've changed the cling film about 3 times, it can get a bit scuddy and start to block out the light.

@Keith GH Praise indeed, thanks Keith.

@zozo thanks Marcel, I do have the radio on all day and sometimes Classic FM, so who knows you maybe right


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## zozo

Till now nobody realy knows, but there is one plant completely throwing all upside down. The Codariocalyx motorius or Desmodium gyrans aka Telegraph plant and Dancing plant. Scientists don't know what to make of it and still a complete mystery.. But this plant very obviously reacts and moves to sounds. So indeed, who knows? If one does, maybe all do, maybe less obvious but still.


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## Daveslaney

Classic FM!! Theres no wonder they are looking so green.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Ryan Thang To said:


> Wow. Lovely setup. I Really like the moss.


So do I.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison

@zozo, I have a theory about that Marcel...I think it's probably something to do with certain frequencies stimulating growth.
Outdoors those frequencies are perhaps provided by natural environmental factors. Indoors those factors are largely absent and music might provide a substitute...perhaps 

For instance, I read somewhere that Marram grass growth is stimulated by shifting sands and in particular in to developing a deep root system.
Another analogy would be turf growth in stadiums. In totally enclosed stadiums it doesn't grow as well as it does in stadiums without a roof despite climate control, fertz and all the rest.

@Daveslaney it must work; doesn't Prince Charles play classical music to encourage his prise blooms or something? 

@dw1305 Thanks Darrel


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> @zozo, I have a theory about that Marcel...I think it's probably something to do with certain frequencies stimulating growth.
> Outdoors those frequencies are perhaps provided by natural environmental factors. Indoors those factors are largely absent and music might provide a substitute...perhaps
> 
> For instance, I read somewhere that Marram grass growth is stimulated by shifting sands and in particular in to developing a deep root system.
> Another analogy would be turf growth in stadiums. In totally enclosed stadiums it doesn't grow as well as it does in stadiums without a roof despite climate control, fertz and all the rest.



You could very well be on the right track.. After all every molecule is an electric charged freqeuncy to be able to excist.. So the idea that other external good vibrations could be received as positive stimulus is not far fetched at all. It also reminds me of David Talbott theories and his Thunderbolts project, al tho discarted to the realm of pseudosience he and his team still had some interesting theories, that not gravity but electricity is the predominant universal force .


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## PARAGUAY

Nice work Tim, looking good


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks PARAGUAY


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## Tim Harrison

I've decided to rechristen the scape Endor...it kinda goes with the 'Return of the Shallow Jedi' type theme, if you follow


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## Daveslaney

Love it!.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Dave...probably in very poor taste but I couldn't resist the urge, it was just waiting to happen


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Dave...probably in very poor taste but I couldn't resist the urge, it was just waiting to happen



But you understand that from now on you'll be known as Tim AKA Master Jodaquarium??


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...but wait...Master Yoda is small green and very wrinkly


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## foxfish

I don't think you have ever posted a picture of yourself so ... maybe .... that is you!


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## Tim Harrison

Maybe this will jog your memory, although it's going back a few years now 
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-other-hobbys-do-you-have.23712/page-6#post-302761


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...but wait...Master Yoda is small green and very wrinkly



At least he's green. s that fits... Maybe just a little water and the wrinkles disappear also..


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## Silviu Man

You are not alone, sir!


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## Tim Harrison

Fantastic, Jar Jar Binks....maybe we need to start another thread - Star Wars Scapes


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## Silviu Man

Well, why not!  I have an attempt of ... Movie Scape with "What Dreams May Come". 
Of course, without any ... plastic inside! Star Wars Scape... Lord of the Rings Scape... all have beautiful scapes that can inspire.


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## Tim Harrison

In all seriousness, why not, they're great films made in some of the most beautiful places on Earth with amazing scenic cinematography


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## Silviu Man

As a matter of fact, my first idea was the scene from "The Lion King", that when Simba is raised up by Rafiki and presented to the animals.
That promotory, high and suspended over a place with sand and in the oposit place, an end of a jungle ... Why not?


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> In all seriousness, why not, they're great films made in some of the most beautiful places on Earth with amazing scenic cinematography



Indeed, it didn't take long before the first Avatar scape appeared.. So why not.. Evelyn from GBG she had a beautiful low tech scape that looked like a 1950's Flash Gordon film set. And it realy looked awsome..


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## McCarthy

Tim Harrison said:


> I've decided to rechristen the scape Endor...it kinda goes with the 'Return of the Shallow Jedi' type theme, if you follow






Really nice scape Tim!

And I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is still into LEGOs.


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## Tim Harrison

Yes...hmmm...well it's a fair cop. I have the best of excuses though, my 10 year son loves Star Wars LEGO.
He thought the speeder bike chase scene I recreated in the shallow was awesome 
Nice models  by the way 

P.S. We don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing (George Bernard Shaw)


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## McCarthy

Tim Harrison said:


> Yes...hmmm...well it's a fair cop. I have the best of excuses though, my 10 year son loves Star Wars LEGO.
> He thought the speeder bike chase scene I recreated in the shallow was awesome
> Nice models  by the way
> 
> P.S. We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing (George Bernard Shaw)



I couldn't have said it any better. Love me some George Bernard Shaw too.


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## Tim Harrison

It's taken me longer to get around to flooding the scape than I would have liked, the usual life stuff and holidays getting in the way, meaning I haven't been around to do the daily water changes needed to give a newly flooded tank the best possible start. Consequently, the scape has become a bit overgrown.

Day 61 of the dry start...











By comparison day 1 of the dry start...


----------



## Ryan Thang To

Tim Harrison said:


> It's taken me longer to get around to flooding the scape than I would have liked, the usual life stuff and holidays getting in the way, meaning I haven't been around to do the daily water changes needed to give a newly flooded tank the best possible start. Consequently, the scape has become a bit overgrown.
> 
> Day 61 of the dry start...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By comparison day 1 of the dry start...


Wow. Now you just need to flood it. Do do do it


----------



## Edvet

Or keep it dry forever


----------



## Bart Hazes

I picked up 4 of those eucalyptus root pieces a few months ago. First time I saw them. Good price, interesting shape and texture (mine are hollow in the stem portion) and interesting Malaysian drift wood had been hard to find in Edmonton (Canada). Two of them ended up in 53x60x25cm tanks so a quite similar format but my tanks are zero-scaping jungle tanks to breed Apistogramma. I'm really impressed by Tim's creation though.


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Ryan Thang To, thanks Ryan, I'm building up to it 
@Edvet, it's tempting Ed...a lot less effort and no algae 
@Bart Hazes, thanks Bart, first time I laid eyes on the root it was love at first sight. It'd be great to see some pics of your tank perhaps you could start a new thread and post some pics if you haven't already.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 
I love the moss.





Edvet said:


> Or keep it dry forever


With a nice wet growing bromeliad (_Cryptanthus zonatus_?), some ferns (_Asplenium dimorphum?_) a gesnerid (_Chirita tamiana_?) and an orchid (_Ludisia discolor_)?

cheers Darrel


----------



## Edvet

dw1305 said:


> With a nice wet growing bromeliad (_Cryptanthus zonatus_?), some ferns (_Asplenium dimorphum?_) a gesnerid (_Chirita tamiana_?) and an orchid (_Ludisia discolor_)?


Agreed, who needs water when he can have CO2


----------



## sonicninja

I agree, it looks so great dry. I’d be tempted to leave it! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## foxfish

I would guess Tim has spent some time cleaning off the condensation for the photo shoot  & the display might look at little misty most of the time... Tim?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Well yes, foxfish is right...unfortunately the scape is shrouded in condensation most of the time. I usually wipe the glass after its daily spray, and just before resealing, but within an hour or so it is only visible as a green haze.


----------



## parotet

The good thing about keeping it dry is that plant growth won't be that fast, especially for moss. And as we all know trimming mosses underwater is a pain. You will also have the chance to add another wonderful range of plants such as bromeliads, gesneriads, orchids, ferns...
If condensation is the problem, just mount two 40 mm fans in the back corners pointing to the front. Attach them to old cell phone chargers and keep them running on a timer 15 minutes every hour. You will get condensation but only a few hours per day and your plants will appreciate air movement, a must if you introduce 'real' terrestrial plants.
Congrats, it's a very inspiring layout!

Jordi


----------



## PARAGUAY

L ooking great mist or no mist, dont forget the promise to change the avitor @foxfish (hallowen)although getting use to it now


----------



## foxfish

PARAGUAY said:


> L ooking great mist or no mist, dont forget the promise to change the avitor @foxfish (hallowen)although getting use to it now


LOL... new one just for you...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Guys for the compliments and the advice


----------



## Tim Harrison

So...the plants arrived and now it's time to bite the bullet and flood....
I've chosen 3 Rotalas - _Rotala sp. Vietnam, Rotala colorata, and Rotala walichii f_or the background.
I've also lodged a selection of Buces in between the branches of the stump, not to sure what they are, but some are Brownies.
Once flooded I gave the scape a massive trim and gave it its first water change.


----------



## zozo

Awsome scape!! Can'r wait to see it with a grown in background..

Is it me, or is it still missing a floater?..


----------



## Nelson

Nooooooo .


----------



## zozo

Nelson said:


> Nooooooo .


Are jealous?


----------



## kadoxu

This keep getting better and better!


----------



## Nelson

zozo said:


> Are jealous?


Liked it without water .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yeah me too...well kinda', but I couldn't see anything through the condensation and for me fish are an integral part of the hobby. Although, if I could find some of those flying fish that feature so prominently in IAPLC entries, I'd have no need to flood it...

@zozo and @kadoxu thanks Marcel and kadoxu


----------



## Kitalexander

Wow this is so amazing! My favourite hard scape I've seen in ages


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Kitalexander


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## steveno

Wow, lovely from the off set... if my new set up is only half as good as your I will be a very happy man.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @steveno


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## Ryan Thang To

Very cool tim. I see where you get your plants from, i get mine from them too


----------



## kadoxu

Ryan Thang To said:


> Very cool tim. I see where you get your plants from, i get mine from them too


Same here!


----------



## Ryan Thang To

kadoxu said:


> Same here!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ryan


----------



## foxfish

Looks great Tim & just for your future reference, you might want to try out some bathroom mirror demister if you ever do another dry start.
Two coats last around four or five days of clear viewing... I am not sure how safe any left over residue might be towards livestock but I have never had any problems.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks foxfish...good tip


----------



## Tim Harrison

One of the buces has flowered...although I can't really claim all the credit, it had an emerging flower spike when I got it, but at least it didn't rot and fall off before it flowered; I must be doing something right...


----------



## zozo

Amazing!  Never seen a Buce flower as big  like that. I got 2 different sp. it regularly flowers but it always dies before it fully opens. I must be doing something wrong.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha, thanks Marcel...I'll be very surprised if it happens again, I think maybe I just got lucky this time


----------



## zozo

Btw did you notice? What's this?


 

Looks abit like a small BBA delegation...


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## Edvet

fungus
I always find flowering bucces wierd, in nature they don't flower underwater


----------



## Nelson

zozo said:


> Btw did you notice? What's this?
> View attachment 111012
> 
> Looks abit like a small BBA delegation...


Trust you...............


----------



## Tim Harrison

I think it's fungus, I guess it liked the moist conditions during the dry start, and since I flooded it's grow even more. Now you mention it there are other patches as well.
I've also had patches of BGA on the rocks and wood which I've treated with LC, brushed off and syphoned out. It also tried to take hold on the new stems so I've had to trim a few already.
I'm sure it'll get worse before it gets better; new tank teething problems an' all


----------



## zozo

Edvet said:


> in nature they don't flower underwater


What makes you think so?.. 

I find flowering plants in general covered with a mysterious veil, especialy the tropicals. I mean to find out what triggers the flowering.
For some sp. they say it's light hours,, but if you look at the graph from the region where for example the Buce grows it must be a matter of minutes? That region receives about 12 hours year long. I guess this plant maybe only grows under water in the wet seasons from october till march. And some other tropical sp. don't mind light hours and just flower all year long if light intensity is enough. Others don't flower at all if light intensity is not enough no matter the hours. So it also relates to species and or origine. Very difficult to figure that out without creating a complete fllowering lab setup per plant and do testings.

My 2 Buce sp. also develop flowers one is planted near the surface and flowers emersed, one is at substrate level and also develops flowers, even in low tech conditions. So for submersed condition it's not co2 related.



Tim Harrison said:


> I'm sure it'll get worse before it gets better; new tank teething problems an' all


Indeed didn't think of that, my last teething tank was 2 years ago.


----------



## Edvet

zozo said:


> What makes you think so?.


1) Their pollinators dont swim
2) In nature they grow on the waters edge, they will get underwater during rainy season, so they can survive that, but they will flower in the dry season when they are above water.


----------



## zozo

Edvet said:


> 1) Their pollinators dont swim


Obviously the plant doesn't know that, Tim's buce proof it, it obviously is still trying..



Edvet said:


> 2) In nature they grow on the waters edge, they will get underwater during rainy season, so they can survive that, but they will flower in the dry season when they are above water.


Yup i assume the same.. But a what if? A piece of rhizome brakes off falls into the water and hooks somewhere at a place that never surfaces. Will it die, will it grow on but never flower? Can we know this from a what if buce in the wild?


----------



## Edvet

Look at  "Jungle Mike"to see a boatlaod of buces in the wild
http://junglemikey.blogspot.nl/


----------



## Costa

Tim Harrison said:


> So...the plants arrived and now it's time to bite the bullet and flood....
> I've chosen 3 Rotalas - _Rotala sp. Vietnam, Rotala colorata, and Rotala walichii f_or the background.
> I've also lodged a selection of Buces in between the branches of the stump, not to sure what they are, but some are Brownies.
> Once flooded I gave the scape a massive trim and gave it its first water change.



Very generous plant quantities. May I ask where you got them from?


----------



## Tim Harrison

I think it's quite common for buces to flower underwater...just like anubias; I know that all of Tom Barr's do, for instance. 
I also think there is evidence that at least some plants that flower underwater are pollinated by aquatic inverts.


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Costa, I bought the carpet plants and the stems from an ebay vendor https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/k2aqua/m.html?item=181540510773&var=480503145409&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
And the buces from https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ukkath-6na3iddu/m.html?item=191959899370&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
But that said our sponsors offer great quality and value for money plants as well. They are nearly always my first port of call, but this time they'd sold out of some of the plants I needed


----------



## Edvet

Tim Harrison said:


> all of Tom Barr's do, for instance


Not realy a natural situation


Tim Harrison said:


> pollinated by aquatic inverts


I would like to see some sientific literature on that, i don't believe it happens


----------



## Edvet

Photo's by Jungle Mikey of Buce's in the natural. He has thousands of these



 



one more link:https://www.aroid.org/gallery/wong/...ology doi10.1111plb.12320] Low et al 2015.pdf
(Fruitfly family)


----------



## Tim Harrison

Water currents can also play a role in pollination as well; hydrophily https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophily


----------



## Tim Harrison

Edvet said:


> Not realy a natural situation
> 
> I would like to see some sientific literature on that, i don't believe it happens



Here's one from a quick Google. It concerns the male flowers of the tropical marine angiosperm _Thalassia testudinum. _It's very recent research and perhaps suggests it occurs more frequently than thought. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5056424/

And here is a more accessible article based on the research http://www.indefenseofplants.com/blog/2016/10/31/underwater-pollinators


----------



## Edvet

Good find


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

Nice, glad to see this wet! Most of my buce plants flower under water, a few species dont seem to flower that much but the wavy varieties similar to what you have flower all the time, the flower never really fully opens, I even find shrimp eating at the flower every now and then, my next tank is going to be all buce and anubias!


----------



## Tim Harrison

I've just noticed the tank is teaming with ostracods ...literally a population explosion (no fish yet). At first I thought it was detritus being blown around the tank in the current, but detritus can't swim... 

Also I've got a few tufts of what looks like Fissidens growing on the DW...not particularly exciting news, except I didn't put it there 

The only explanation I can think of is, it's from Windswept Eternity my previous scape. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/windswept-eternity.37490/page-19 but it's been several months since it was torn down, and the DW was long since dried and stored in the garage.

I've read stories about the amazing regenerative powers of moss, in particular, tolerance to environmental desiccation...but I find it hard to believe; I must have it wrong somehow 

Finally, the scape is proving high maintenance already I had to give it another trim  the carpet had grown to around 3cm thick in the short time since flooding and it's first trim. I guess that's the advantage of the DSM and an established root system


----------



## Nelson

I've heard that before about Fissidens.
Free live fish food too .
High maintenance ,should have kept it dry .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nelson said:


> I've heard that before about Fissidens.


That's bizarre and amazing, and I gave the DW a good scrub as well...not that I'm complaining it's springing up in a few places.


Nelson said:


> Free live fish food too .


Yep, I don't mind the ostracods at all, neither will my fish when I finally get some 


Nelson said:


> High maintenance ,should have kept it dry .


I did have my doubts about flooding it but so far so good, with the exception of a bit of brown algae.


----------



## Tim Harrison

First short video taken with my iPhone...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Found this _Bucephalandra_ sp. "red" in Pet at Home today https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/tropica-pets-at-home.50161/page-4#post-505422
It's now the first emersed inhabitant of the hollow in the stump, I'll make more of the hollow soon, but for now it's just placed there, it was an impulse buy...


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## Edvet

If it's emersed it's probably a good idea to kinda cover it with some cling film and adapt it gradually to room levels of dry air


----------



## Tim Harrison

You maybe right Ed, I'll keep an eye on it see how it does.


----------



## foxfish

I have tried with _Bucephalandra a few times, both under and above water.
I was not very successful, although I still have a few alive in my terrarium tank but, the underwater ones never really flourished!
However that was a few years ago, I think I need to get a few more.... 
Good luck but I think you are the man who will succeed._


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Foxfish, I might just stick it in the tank and try to grow it immersed...I guess some varieties are hardier than others, but there are more and more varieties becoming common place now, so the chances of finding ones that will grow well for you are probably increasing and better than they were a couple of years ago.


----------



## foxfish

Yes, especially  as they are now coming well down in price!


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's true as well, some cost half what they used to.


----------



## Tim Harrison

I stumbled across this species, _Hyphessobrycon cf. loweae, _in my LFS and bought the last 10 they had, I'm well pleased, they are super little fish and only grow to about 20mm_. _
Apparently_, _they are still fairly new to the hobby; I've never seen them for sale before. I'll post my own pic when they've settled in, but for now here's one off the net...


----------



## Ryan Thang To

Tim Harrison said:


> I stumbled across this species, _Hyphessobrycon cf. loweae, _in my LFS and bought the last 10 they had, I'm well pleased, they are super little fish and only grow to about 20mm_. _
> Apparently_, _they are still fairly new to the hobby; I've never seen them for sale before. I'll post my own pic when they've settled in, but for now here's one off the net...


What are they tim? Pictures is broken


----------



## zozo

Beautifull fish..  Found this from a German Import/export trader..  Seems first caught in the wild in Mato grosso, Brasil in 2000, the article dates from 2007. 
http://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-archives/hyphessobrycon_cf_loweae_en/


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yes thats the one Marcel


----------



## zozo

According to them it gets about twice as big(small) as your source.?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...so it does, I thought that 20mm was a bit small for a deep bodied Hyphessobrycon sp. I guess we'll just have to wait and see


----------



## zozo

Yes would be lovely to have it in such small size.. They are beautifull fish.. I always liked those coffee beans..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just a quick update. I got a bit fed up with the bald spots in the lawn and infilled them with more plants. 
I've also added a couple of red stems left of centre foreground for a bit of contrast. And the WK was looking a bit sorry for itself so I've had a bit of a rehash in another glass bowl. 
I'm also trying to tempt my new Otos with a bit of broccoli stem, I've never been able to get my Otos to feed on anything except algae...


----------



## Nigel95

Perfect tank


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the compliment Nigel


----------



## Danny

Had a browse over this, what a find that piece of wood was along with the vision on how to use it.

Great job.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Danny


----------



## MarkyP

very nice Tim - i would love a shallow tank but the boss wont have it...........


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thank you Marky


----------



## MarkyP

i see you dont have a slope on your substrate like most tanks going from low at the front to a lot higher at the back! is there a reason for this?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yes there are a three really.
For one, it worked better aesthetically to highlight the hieght and depth of the island.
And two, the scape began with the DSM so a level substrate ensured that the moisture was evenly distributed throughout.
Also, the tank is viewed from two angles, essentially I have two fronts, so it worked better that way as well.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The scape is maturing nicely, I'm letting it grow out a bit before I trim again...


----------



## tam

It's looking really good. It's my favourite sort of tank - one where you can peer in from different angles and see something different each time.

My Otos eat Hikari mini algae wafers - just got a couple of new ones in quarantine and they come to the front and munch on them too.


----------



## williak

Wow that is beautiful! Great depth to the scape


----------



## Tim Harrison

tam said:


> It's looking really good. It's my favourite sort of tank - one where you can peer in from different angles and see something different each time.


Thanks tam, I guess shallows do that very well, and thanks for the Oto feeding tip 
Thanks also @williak


----------



## Kitalexander

Tim Harrison said:


>


What is the plant in the top right corner?


----------



## Tim Harrison

It's _Rotala wallichii _https://www.ukaps.org/forum/plantbase/rotala-wallichii.142/


----------



## Tim Harrison

Did a water change today and found these oligochaete worms hanging out in the moss...getting on down to some funky disco beat


----------



## Edvet

Funky funky


----------



## zozo

Edvet said:


> Funky funky



 That song they probably came up with during their Toad licking periode.. But it's indeed darn Funky..


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

Oh man that would freak me out, I have a the odd "snail leech" in some of my tanks, they look similar when they stretch out, freaky things.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Edvet said:


> Funky funky



That is Funky and very appropriate, wish I'd found that earlier 



zozo said:


> That song they probably came up with during their Toad licking periode.. But it's indeed darn Funky..


Toad licking was definitely undertaken, during the writing and performing of that track 



doylecolmdoyle said:


> Oh man that would freak me out, I have a the odd "snail leech" in some of my tanks, they look similar when they stretch out, freaky things.


Me too, the suckers really turn my stomach  but now I know why my fish aren't really bothered about eating flake food, there's plenty of live food hiding in the tank.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The Buces are flowering again. They appear to be taking to their new life underwater quite well.
You can see the difference between the old emersed leaves and the new submersed ones.

The old ones also have some GSA but the new ones are looking pretty good.

Hopefully, I've got the balance right between light intensity, flow and distribution of ferts and CO2, and the leaves will stay healthy and algae free.


----------



## Danny

How's your Wallichii getting on?  I'm growing it low tech and not sure how it's doing compared to if it was high tech....


----------



## Nelson

Looking great .
Can you be more professional though and not get your finger in the pic .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Danny, your Wallichii looks like it's doing very well 

@Nelson Thanks Neil, Haha...I hadn't noticed that 

P.S. I've cropped it now


----------



## knickster

Tim Harrison said:


> It's taken me longer to get around to flooding the scape than I would have liked, the usual life stuff and holidays getting in the way, meaning I haven't been around to do the daily water changes needed to give a newly flooded tank the best possible start. Consequently, the scape has become a bit overgrown.
> 
> Day 61 of the dry start...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By comparison day 1 of the dry start...


This is absolutely beautiful!

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## Andrew Butler

Tim Harrison said:


> The old ones also have some GSA


Did the twinstar do anything for your aquarium?


----------



## Tim Harrison

knickster said:


> This is absolutely beautiful!
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


Thank you knickster 



Andrew Butler said:


> Did the twinstar do anything for your aquarium?


I think the general consensus is that yes it helps to keep algae under control but only as an aid to good tank maintenance.
In the same way It helps to keep the water clear, and is probably the ultimate cut price oxygen generator.

As Darrel @dw1305 has mentioned previously in other threads, O2 is the primary metric in biological filtration.
So overall I think it makes a significant contribution to the stability, and health of the tank and the critters and plants in it


----------



## Tim Harrison

A few quick iPhone shots...


----------



## Tim Harrison

The scape has been in desperate need of a trim for some time, but somehow I've never managed to get round to it...but today I decided to just get on with it.
The stems had gone over the top and I'm going to have to stay on top of them from now on the get the low and compact growth I want. They still look a bit messy as a result.

After...




Before...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Dodgy handheld iPhone movie of MC pearling a couple of days after trimming...taken a few weeks back.


----------



## plantbrain

I'd swap some faster weedy species for slower growing and non stemy types. 

Since you are already neglecting the trimming, maybe maybe not, but the shallow nature leaves less time to between trim before it throws off the scape. 
Maybe a corner's worth of stem plants, something pink or more red. Starogyne would work but might be too large a leaf to replace the foreground. 

I went full non CO2 on my shallow tank. 
I removed a lot of the Pennywort as the tank has matured a bit more. 
Replaced with Mini Xmas moss. It was easier. Moss tiles are fairly easy to work with if you choose that for the foreground also and folks will always buy moss, buckets of pennywort, not so much. 
Dwarf clover is another easy to handle foreground. 
Tropica mini hairgrass. 
Etc.

Try and switch out different species to see what works better.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the advice Tom, nice to see you posting here again.
Been thinking of swapping some plants out, or maybe mixing things up a little especially in the foreground.
And funny you should comment on neglecting the trimming, I've just hacked the stems back...


----------



## Keith GH

Tim



Tim Harrison said:


> Been thinking of swapping some plants out, or maybe mixing things up a little especially in the foreground.



At the moment design wise a neat and tidy foreground leads your eye directly to the main feature of your Aquascape without any distractions.

Keith


----------



## Tim Harrison

Keith GH said:


> Tim At the moment design wise a neat and tidy foreground leads your eye directly to the main feature of your Aquascape without any distractions. Keith


Thanks Keith, I've been thinking a few low growing crypts at the foot of the mound and/or some hair grass similarly placed might add a bit more texture.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Bugger...
Subtitle...I hate when that happens 

My Cal Aqua Labs lily inflow shattered when I was unhooking it from the tank this morning. Still not sure how it happened 
But not a problem, I thought, saves cleaning it, and I can use the Ehiem inflow until I can order another glass one...until I remembered I'd thrown it away when I cleared out the garage 

Had to rush out and buy another Ehiem inflow as a temp solution


----------



## Ryan Thang To

Hey
Oh no. That so annoying hopefully it didn't wet your floor. Cal brand too not cheap

Glass ones you always have to be extra carefully. I got sone arcylic ones from ebay works well.


----------



## Danny

Do you think the twinstar has had a significant impact?

Just seen the previous Q&A.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ryan Thang To said:


> Hey Oh no. That so annoying hopefully it didn't wet your floor. Cal brand too not cheap Glass ones you always have to be extra carefully. I got sone arcylic ones from ebay works well.


I know...that makes three I've managed to break somehow 
Acrylic is probably the way to go now.


----------



## doylecolmdoyle

DAM! ive broken many cheap ebay glass pipes but since switching to the smallest cal aqua pipes (forget the exact model) I have not had problems, the glass seems real thick, I am now thinking of switching the SS pipes as I get a bit sick of cleaning the dirty glass pipes... tho when they get so dirty i guess its a good sign to clean your filter.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


>



Is that Utricularia emersed?..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi Marcel, yes it is emersed and it's spreading, some starting to grow immersed as well. As you can see it's growing through the moss.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Hi Marcel, yes it is emersed and it's spreading, some starting to grow immersed as well. As you can see it's growing through the moss.



Realy nice! Hopefully you get it to flower one day, that would be realy special. I'd love to see that.. I experienced this beauty as mysteriously difficult emersed as submersed. Had tons of it growing either way very lush with loads of fat bladders and suddenly it slowly dissappeared. Unfortunately it never flowered. Since it's carnivorus i have no other clue than i might have distroyed the ballance in micro organisme some how and it starved. Or something else threw off the micro organsm ballance in the tank. I don't recall anything off that's to blame. It's still on my wish list to try again.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel. Yes it's a very mysterious plant. This is the first time I've had any kind of success with it.
I've always tried to grow it immersed, thought I'd give it a go emersed, but still expected it to die.
However I grow it, the transition is a bit weird. The old leaves completely die back and new leaves emerge from the resulting slime, almost Phoenix like.
I think this time growing through mini Christmas moss and Pellia might have made a difference. It started to emerge through the moss away from the main clump.


----------



## Edvet

I am guessing you'll both like this: http://shop.carnivoria.eu/


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ed, nice site, some great plants and photos


----------



## zozo

Yes I do Ed.. Thanks.. 

Here is another one i recently found..  All tiny carnivors invitro.
https://www.ebay.com/usr/weirdplantsshop?_trksid=p2053788.m1543.l2754
Some very intersting specimen for transitoning to emersed growing in the emersed mosses.
Because replanting or moving adults oftenly fails. They hate beeing moved once used to a spot.
Example Drosera peltata, small red colored asian tropic, doesn't go in dormancy..


----------



## TomatoandEgg

Such beautiful dw and rock arrangement that’s super impressive. Long time lurker Logged in to give props. 

But the plants cover it all up.  Seems a waste of the composition and your time. Isn’t it possible to create a more shallow depth of substrate around the edge of the hard scape so the carpet and other plants don’t cover it all up?  

Still a beautiful tank congrats


----------



## anfield

Beautiful tank. Are you going to put apistos in there?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @TomatoandEgg Know what you mean and you're not first to comment on that.
For me the hardscape is a means to an end. It's the bone structure for the flesh of the scape, the plants.
The substrate depth is really determined by the planting, any shallower and it'd be very difficult to plant in.

And thanks @anfield. If I can find a decent pair of Rams I'd snap them up in an instant, females are difficult to come by, and I don't do mail order fish.
I spied a tank full of Scarlet badis at my LFS but they were still in quarantine, if they turn out okay I'll try to get a pair of those, but again females are very difficult to come by.


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## anfield

I had a fantastic pair of scarlet badis that stayed alive in a heavily planted 7 gallon for over a year without eating any flake food. They survived just off shrimp babies. They are picky eaters for sure.

I find that in the US, mail order fish from the right source is better than anything I can get locally.

Also I think your level of planting is perfect for this tank. Need to showcase the hardscape and not just the plants.


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> I spied a tank full of Scarlet badis at my LFS but they were still in quarantine, if they turn out okay I'll try to get a pair of those, but again females are very difficult to come by.


Encourage your shop to order in separate male & female "bags" rather than male/female mixed  - much more likely to actually get females then 
(as in either the females ship or they don't, but there's no question that what arrives is Dario girls )

They are quite interesting in a group - your tank has the footprint & scape for a nice "shoal"
& they'll barely affect your bioload


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## alto

btw your Cal Aqua obviously lost its integrity form the dissonant forces applied by the uneven grunge coating 
- must strive for more even distribution


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## Tim Harrison

Haha, I should have left it longer, it might have developed a more homogenous grunge coating


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## Tim Harrison

Gave the shallow a good trim on Sunday. I also removed a lot of moss to expose the hardscape.


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## CooKieS

Nice!


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## Tim Harrison

Just finished trimming the scape, it was long overdue. Before trim...


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## Jayefc1

Wow Tim that is an amazing peace of art can't wait till I have the know how and time to produce something even close to that looks fantastic


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Jayefc1.
Still suffering the green Eheim inflow, not very aesthetically pleasing, but a new glass one is on order.
This is the scapes last trim, I'm going to let it grow back in a little and then I'll take the final shots.
After that I'll be tearing it down and scaping my new ADA Cube Garden 60P.
Some post trim pics...


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## alto

I don't know ..... looks like there's room on that bench for The Shallows AND a 60P


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## Aqua360

Superb carpet


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## Daveslaney

Lovely .


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## Tim Harrison

alto said:


> I don't know ..... looks like there's room on that bench for The Shallows AND a 60P


Haha, I suppose there is, but they would actually have to touch to fit 
And thanks @Aqua360 and Dave @Daveslaney


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## gltjc

Fabulous tank! Will be sad to break it down. I could provide a good home for some of that wood it is surplus to requirements!


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## Chrispowell

Such a tidy setup and beautiful tank!! Really impressive work!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @gltjc and Chris @Chrispowell.


gltjc said:


> I could provide a good home for some of that wood it is surplus to requirements!


I know you could...


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## zozo

Very beautiful and awsome scape Tim!. Looks hardscape wise a bit like my low tech, i scaped it in the same fashion with similar looking wood. But plant wise i'm not even half your way and i'm over 2 years into the process without trimming it once.  Scapes like yours are definitively testing my patience keeping mine still low tech.


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## Tim Harrison

Awe, thanks Marcel 


zozo said:


> Scapes like yours are definitively testing my patience keeping mine still low tech.


Go on add gas, you know you want to...

_FEEL THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE..._


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Awe, thanks Marcel
> 
> Go on add gas, you know you want to...
> 
> _FEEL THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE..._


 No i don't.. I wait 2 years more if necessary and see, i think i can do it.. I can stand that itch a bit longer.


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## Tim Harrison

Quick update. The plants are growing at a pace since the last trim.
Took delivery of some new pump dispensers today, easier to use than the original TNC bottles...


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## Jayefc1

Tank looks amazing mate i wouldnt be able to bring myself to take it down


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## zozo

Definitively looks delicious!..  Cocktails and dreams...


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## Nelson

Oh,don't your ferts look pretty like that .


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## Daveslaney

Fertastic.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...
@Jayefc1 yeah, it's always a bit of a wrench to tear a tank down, but the urge to scape again is too strong to resist 
@zozo thanks Marcel, plants like cocktails too  maybe I should get an optic dispenser like Sascha Hoyer’s 
@Nelson, thanks Neil, knew you'd appreciate them 
@Daveslaney thanks Dave


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## zozo

Don't forget Juggling with the bottles while adding ferts..
Do the hippy shake..


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## Tim Harrison

That's a cinema classic, but I prefer this version...


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## Sarpijk

Hi Tim, I 'd like to know about the dispenser bottles you got. Are they just regular pump dispensers like the one used for liquid soap or are they special bottles for  accurate dosing like the ones Tropica use?


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## Tim Harrison

They're 250ml lotion bottles off eBay. I'd be surprised if there's any real difference. I've measured the dose; they give a consistant 1.5ml.
Either way, I think when it comes to dosing smaller amounts they're going to be more accurate than the original old school bottles...


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## sciencefiction

Tim Harrison said:


> This is the scapes last trim, I'm going to let it grow back in a little and then I'll take the final shots.



If I had a tank like that, I'd open up about ten thousand threads all over the net and show it around, lol. Taking it down is out of question


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks SF, I'm working on it. I'm just starting to discover the advantages of social media, I've been pretty slow on the uptake 
I've recently set up an Instagram account and I'm trying to be more proactive and perhaps post more vids on youtube etc.


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## Sarpijk

Why do I think that a clear bottle is not the best option for iron ferts? Isn't it affected by long exposure to light ?


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## Petra R

That is so lush, and beautifully photographed as well.

I would say we vote to veto tearing it down...


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## Tim Harrison

Sarpijk said:


> Why do I think that a clear bottle is not the best option for iron ferts? Isn't it affected by long exposure to light ?


Not sure whether that solution would be photosensitive, but I keep my fertz in a dark draw anyway.


Petra R said:


> That is so lush, and beautifully photographed as well.
> 
> I would say we vote to veto tearing it down...


Thanks Petra, that's nice of you say so


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## lucaz koh

Amazing tank! When I finally stop renting and get my own place you can bet I’m going to have one of these (or bigger) in place of the tv haha


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks lucaz


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## MJF90

Great looking tank Mr Harrison! What you gonna do with it after you break it down?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @MJF90 Not entirely sure, reuse some of the plants and maybe some of the hardscape. The fish and Amano's will go in to the new scape. 
Why do you ask?


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## Tim Harrison

Nearly there...


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## Petra R

you just can't tear that down
Isn't there a law against aquariumcide?


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## Daveslaney

Looks fantastic Tim.


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## Tim Harrison

@Petra R ...if there was I'd probably be serving life for mass scapocide 
@Daveslaney, thanks Dave


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## Edvet

Pfff looks cr@p, needs a rescape.....................................................................................


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ed, haha, that makes me feel much better...I was beginning to feel depressed at the thought of tearing it down. But now it needs rescaping anyway I don't feel so bad


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## Tim Harrison

These are the last pics of this scape. I was going to give it a stay of execution but either the tank has sprung a slow leak or I over filled it by accident.
Either way, the upshot is that the baseboard has absorbed water and swelled, which has forced my hand somewhat.

As a result the tank has been jacked up at the back by about 6mm, and I'm worried the uneven force will crack the tank and result in catastrophic failure.
I've taken the hardscape out and lowered the water level, to hopefully relieve some tension till I can sort out a temp home for the critters and plants I want to keep for the next scape.

Pics were taken in a hurry with my iPhone, so not the best...


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## David Edwards

looks stunning Tim - can only hope mine looks 1/4 as good and I'd be happy.
Looking forward to you new scape though.


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## CooKieS

Never had any succes with S.Rupens, yours seems very happy!

Nice tank btw


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## alto

Rotten luck 
Hope the baseboard recovers


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## Jayefc1

Oh mate sorry to hear it's a gonna guess it's good by to Return of the Shallow will be sadly missed rest in peice


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## Edvet

more like: "rest in pieces"


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## Deano3

Wow what a stunner , i tore mine down due to lack of time etc but with kids in school now i am thinking what to do haha hope looks half as good as that tim well done.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the kind comments guys 

@David Edwards I'm sure your scape will look stunning too 

@CooKieS _S. repens_ can be a bit tricky. Mine's been completely hacked back a couples of times. It just makes it grow stronger and more compact.

@alto The baseboard is kaput, but it doesn't matter, it can be replaced cheaply.

@Jayefc1 I'm going to need a new shallow tank after this as well. I don't think I dare try and fill it again 

@Edvet Ed, Don't say that, I'm still in the process of tearing it down 

@Deano3 Watch this space, I'm going to scape a 45P, the plan is to keep it low maintenance.


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## Jayefc1

Good job u have ur 60p to keep u busy then mate


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## Tim Harrison

That and a 45P


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> That and a 45P


A late gift from the Easter Bunny 

or he hid it so well you took this long to find it   

Are you certain now that the Shallow leaked?


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## Tim Harrison

Kinda', I found a section - back left - at the top where the silicon has gone, about 5 mm or so. If I fill it brimful it leaks 
As for the Cube Gardens - I took advantage of TGM closing down sale


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## Jayefc1

Haha I took advantage too and got my 45p so tjhats the size I built my scape box too


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## doylecolmdoyle

Looked great, sucks is sprang a leak! Well done!


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## TheAquascaper

Beautiful scape


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## Tucker90

Amazing read, love the hard scape, literally exactly what I’m going for! 

Shame you had to break it down! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks


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## Jayefc1

Haha just had a lil read through well all 15 pages again forgot how good this was thanks Tim


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## Ady34

Tim Harrison said:


> A work in progress...
> 
> View attachment 109107


What a hardscape that was, incredible attention to detail with the rock and wood fitting lust like they grew together......



Tim Harrison said:


> These are the last pics of this scape. I was going to give it a stay of execution but either the tank has sprung a slow leak or I over filled it by accident.
> Either way, the upshot is that the baseboard has absorbed water and swelled, which has forced my hand somewhat.
> 
> As a result the tank has been jacked up at the back by about 6mm, and I'm worried the uneven force will crack the tank and result in catastrophic failure.
> I've taken the hardscape out and lowered the water level, to hopefully relieve some tension till I can sort out a temp home for the critters and plants I want to keep for the next scape.
> 
> Pics were taken in a hurry with my iPhone, so not the best...



......and the final result is absolutely outstanding with plant health and composition on par with any aquascaper around. Absolute cracker mate.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady, that's really kind of you to say so. I enjoyed building it. Somehow, I got it all to work without having to cut or break up any of the rocks, still don't know how though


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## Ady34

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Ady, that's really kind of you to say so. I enjoyed building it. Somehow, I got it all to work without having to cut or break up any of the rocks, still don't know how though


Skill and intuition. 
I never like cutting or breaking wood or rocks, just prefer to make them work and fit.....that said I have one piece of wood left unused and have 2 areas in my tank I feel could do with extra wood for balance so maybe I’ll break the rule 
Honestly though, that scape was impeccable with stunning hardscape and subsequent plant health, a cracking journal.


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## Tankless

Apologies for reviving an old thread. What happened to the hyphessobrycon cf. lowes? Did you find that they turned yellow? I bought 12 three weeks ago (11 remain) and they were labelled as the same. They've retained the silver body colour.


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## Tim Harrison

Tankless said:


> Did you find that they turned yellow?


No not so much, but that doesn't surprise me. The Hyphessobrycon genus is large and its systematics remain unresolved. So they're often wrongly labelled by the trade.


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