# Temp is too high for some reason



## Keetchy (9 Mar 2020)

So I'm not sure what's going on here. The room temp is just over 22°C but in the tank is 25°C.

Heater isn't locked on because its wired into a controller which is not sending a signal for the heater to come on. Controller is set to 24°C.

I have a 4" gap on each side of the glass sliders to air it out a bit. The tank is not by a heater. I know the tank will produce a bit of humidity but surely not 3°C with open gaps at the top.

Room temp and tank temp was taken with the same thermometer at 06:30 in the morning so the lights had been off for 9 hours and there was no daylight/sunlight coming in through the window.

I've heard that external filters can produce a bit of heat from the pump but surely not 3°C.

I've never had the tank cooler than 24°C even though it has been colder in the room.

Any ideas???


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## jaypeecee (9 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> So I'm not sure what's going on here. The room temp is just over 22°C but in the tank is 25°C.



Hi @Mark Keetch 

Are you measuring room temperature and tank temperature with the same thermometer? Otherwise, the difference of 3°C is easily explained by thermometer accuracy.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (9 Mar 2020)

Sorry, just spotted that you did use the same thermometer. Time to think again!


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## alto (9 Mar 2020)

If possible, monitor tank vs room though the day ... eg, perhaps the tank is heating to 27/28C with lighting and then cooling to 25 (glass sliders will definitely trap heat, even with the (small) ventilation gaps)

Which filter?
I find an internal filter in a small tank, creates more added heat than my Eheim canister filters on larger tanks


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## Keetchy (9 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Sorry, just spotted that you did use the same thermometer. Time to think again!


Haha. Yeah same one bud. Tomorrow I am going to test room and water temp with a digital food probe thermometer, the digital controller sensor and a normal in tank thermometer and see if all 3 are giving me the same reading


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## Keetchy (9 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> If possible, monitor tank vs room though the day ... eg, perhaps the tank is heating to 27/28C with lighting and then cooling to 25 (glass sliders will definitely trap heat, even with the (small) ventilation gaps)


Thanks dude. The next day I will be home all day will be Wednesday so will test water temp at every hour on Wednesday. I did have the glass sliders off a few weeks back but was annoyed at how much evaporated which then made the water line visible from where we sit. So I stuck the sliders back on but left a fair gap on both sides


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## Keetchy (9 Mar 2020)

The one thing i thought it might have been is I wrap a towel round round the FX5 to quieten the hum a little bit. Could this be warming up the water? But saying that I did remove the towel earlier but 7 hours later the temp was still on 25


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## jaypeecee (9 Mar 2020)

Yes, the insulation (towel) could possibly explain a water temperature rise. If the FX5 is sitting directly on the base of a cabinet, for example, it may transmit vibration to the cabinet which can make noise more audible. Is there any way you could isolate the FX5 by sitting it on, say, a polystyrene tile?

JPC


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## Keetchy (9 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Yes, the insulation (towel) could possibly explain a water temperature rise. If the FX5 is sitting directly on the base of a cabinet, for example, it may transmit vibration to the cabinet which can make noise more audible. Is there any way you could isolate the FX5 by sitting it on, say, a polystyrene tile?
> 
> JPC



So I have the filter sitting on 2 towels which softens the noise from it vibrating on the cabinet floor. Then I had a towel wrapped round it to soften the noise  from it vibrating on the cabinet walls and door.

I've got a couple of things to try. Leave the towel off and see if the temp drops over the  next couple of days........... and turn the heater controller completely off to eliminate it being a heater issue.


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## mort (10 Mar 2020)

It could simply be the accuracy of your temperature probe vs the thermometer. Contollers can vary by a degree or so, as can normal thermometers, so you might be in a situation where your temperature Contollers thinks room temperature is still above what it is set to but your thermometer disagrees.


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

mort said:


> It could simply be the accuracy of your temperature probe vs the thermometer. Contollers can vary by a degree or so, as can normal thermometers, so you might be in a situation where your temperature Contollers thinks room temperature is still above what it is set to but your thermometer disagrees.



I used the same thermometer to measure both bud. The digital probe thermometer I used showed 25 in the tank and 22 outside the tank


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## Sammy Islam (10 Mar 2020)

Do you have a standard glass thermometer? I never trust the digital ones as we have to assume they are calibrated correctly.


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## Wookii (10 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> So I'm not sure what's going on here. The room temp is just over 22°C but in the tank is 25°C.
> 
> Heater isn't locked on because its wired into a controller which is not sending a signal for the heater to come on. Controller is set to 24°C.
> 
> ...



I think I'm missing the main question you are trying to ask Mark, what is the relevance of your room temperature? If you're controller is set to 24°C, does it not turn on your heater as needed, intermittently, to maintain 24°C? Or are you saying you have permanently turned off your controller/heater, and the temperature is being maintained at 25°C without the aid of a heater? (Which would be very odd)


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> Do you have a standard glass thermometer? I never trust the digital ones as we have to assume they are calibrated correctly.


Ok I have just stuck a stick on glass thermometer in the tank. I'll see what that reads in a bit



Wookii said:


> I think I'm missing the main question you are trying to ask Mark, what is the relevance of your room temperature? If you're controller is set to 24°C, does it not turn on your heater as needed, intermittently, to maintain 24°C? Or are you saying you have permanently turned off your controller/heater, and the temperature is being maintained at 25°C without the aid of a heater? (Which would be very odd)


2nd option. The controller is set to 24, heater hasnt come on for days now, but the water temp is 25 with the room temp being 22


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## Wookii (10 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> 2nd option. The controller is set to 24, heater hasnt come on for days now, but the water temp is 25 with the room temp being 22



How do you know the heater hasn't come on at all? It might only need to come on for a few minutes every hour or two to maintain a 2 degree differential. If you unplug the heater completely from the controller, and then see if the tank temperature comes down, it would answer that question. I'm not being pedantic here - it's just easier to eliminate variables if you exclude them from the equation completely. I have an inline heater with a controller - on the few times that I've forgot to turn the heater back on after tank maintenance, the temperature will gradually descend to room temps.


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> How do you know the heater hasn't come on at all? It might only need to come on for a few minutes every hour or two to maintain a 2 degree differential. If you unplug the heater completely from the controller, and then see if the tank temperature comes down, it would answer that question. I'm not being pedantic here - it's just easier to eliminate variables if you exclude them from the equation completely. I have an inline heater with a controller - on the few times that I've forgot to turn the heater back on after tank maintenance, the temperature will gradually descend to room temps.



Ok yeah I see your point. But today I have had the power to the heater cut off and the tank is still sitting at 25

So......all 3 thermometers (2 digital and 1 mercury) read 25°C. This is after the heater has been unplugged and both glass sliders removed from the tank all day. And the towel is no longer wrapped round filter. Room temp is still 22°C


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## Wookii (10 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Ok yeah I see your point. But today I have had the power to the heater cut off and the tank is still sitting at 25
> 
> So......all 3 thermometers (2 digital and 1 mercury) read 25°C. This is after the heater has been unplugged and both glass sliders removed from the tank all day. And the towel is no longer wrapped round filter. Room temp is still 22°C



That is odd then - it must be the pump in your filter then. I assume it’s the only electrical device in contact with the tank water (assuming lights are off). There must be plenty of other people using that filter at lower temps though I would have thought.

. . . either that or you’ve created a perpetual energy generation machine and inadvertently solved the worlds green energy crisis!


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> That is odd then - it must be the pump in your filter then. I assume it’s the only electrical device in contact with the tank water (assuming lights are off). There must be plenty of other people using that filter at lower temps though I would have thought.
> 
> . . . either that or you’ve created a perpetual energy generation machine and inadvertently solved the worlds green energy crisis!



Its bloody annoying  Just want the tank to run at 24. Lol. I suppose 25 wont cause too much issues with the plants will it? I'll see what the temp is in the morning after the heating has been on all night with glass sliders off and heater unplugged.

And funny you say that, my pal @Jason harris  said the same thing


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

So update...... using the mercury thermometer...... inside the tank is 25, room temp is just over 22 and the temp in  between the light and the water surface is 26.

But this still doesnt explain why the tank water is still 25 first thing in the morning when the lights have been off for 9 hours


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## jaypeecee (10 Mar 2020)

Hi @Mark Keetch 

I've just scanned through this thread and I couldn't see what size tank you have. What volume is it? I also see that the FX5 has a (nominally) 50W power consumption. I do believe it has a bit of electronics in there but this will itself not consume much power. So, the pump itself will be taking most of this 50W. And that's 24/7. As previously mentioned, this is likely to be the culprit. There doesn't appear to be any other explanation. Do you have control over flow rate with the FX5? Have you considered contacting Fluval/Hagen about this problem? There must be other FX5 users out there with the same problem as the one you are seeing.

JPC


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

I have LED strips on the back of the tank on the outside, could they be producing enough heat to warm the tank up? There is 4 x 500mm strips in total


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Mark Keetch
> 
> I've just scanned through this thread and I couldn't see what size tank you have. What volume is it? I also see that the FX5 has a (nominally) 50W power consumption. I do believe it has a bit of electronics in there but this will itself not consume much power. So, the pump itself will be taking most of this 50W. And that's 24/7. As previously mentioned, this is likely to be the culprit. There doesn't appear to be any other explanation. Do you have control over flow rate with the FX5? Have you considered contacting Fluval/Hagen about this problem? There must be other FX5 users out there with the same problem as the one you are seeing.
> 
> JPC


Hey Jay

So the tank holds about 300 litres of water.

You reckon its worth contacting them then? Is there much they can do about it?

So the final test to do tomorrow is leave the heater unplugged, glass sliders off and lights off (so I will switch the C02 off too) and monitor the temp.


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## alto (10 Mar 2020)

I suspect Fluval’s first recommendation will be to stop insulating the canister filter 

Use an anti-vibration pad (much more efficient than any towel) - though it’s possible your FX5 is problematic - Fluval should be able to provide noise etc parameters 

I’d run the tank tomorrow with lights and CO2, no heater, no glass sliders - it’s not as if you’re going to actually run the tank sans lights 

For 300 litres @25C and 22C ambient temperature, it’s going to be a fairly slow temperature equilibration


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## Keetchy (10 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> I suspect Fluval’s first recommendation will be to stop insulating the canister filter
> 
> Use an anti-vibration pad (much more efficient than any towel) - though it’s possible your FX5 is problematic - Fluval should be able to provide noise etc parameters
> 
> ...



Haha....yeah I've stopped doing that now dude. Lol.
So the whole of today the tank was running with lights and C02 on, and sliders and heater off. And it still held at 25°C. In fact at one point in went up to 25.1°C

So you reckon it's a bad idea to leave lights and C02 off for the whole day? The plan was to get the temp to drop to 24 then start adding the factors back in to see which one causes it to get warmer


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## alto (10 Mar 2020)

I wouldn’t say “bad” idea, just to me irrelevant as I’m not going to run the tank without lights - I would run the tank with heater set to 21C (I find most heaters will heat an aquarium past the set point before turning “off”), no glass tops, and remove thermal insulation from the filter (this usually makes the filter run hotter than it would otherwise) - as these are all factors I’d consider changing 

I suspect you’ll need to wait 48h for complete “cooling” (again, I’m just not much interested in leaving lights off for a couple days - especially as you’re on a limited timeline re sorting other factors)


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## Fisher2007 (11 Mar 2020)

Could it be a dodgy pump in the filter?  Years ago when I had my marine system I had a submerged return pump that worked but was actually faulty and producing excessive heat (and I mean it was border line too hot to touch)?  Long shot but at idea.  Maybe disconnect the filter and see how hot the internal components are running


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## Wookii (11 Mar 2020)

Fisher2007 said:


> Could it be a dodgy pump in the filter?  Years ago when I had my marine system I had a submerged return pump that worked but was actually faulty and producing excessive heat (and I mean it was border line too hot to touch)?  Long shot but at idea.  Maybe disconnect the filter and see how hot the internal components are running



That was my thinking too. There isn't much on Google that I could find, except this thread on another forum:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfi...otor-unit-is-a-bit-hot-on-the-outside.313444/

And this review (though obviously we can't vouch for its accuracy):

https://meethepet.com/fluval-fx6-canister-filter/



> *Power consumption*
> The power consumption is 43 W, which is 10% less than FX5 has. From one hand it’s not that much, but from the other – there’s almost alike filter EHEIM professional 3 2080, which stated water circulation rate through the filter is 1700 liter/hour and it consumes only 30 W, so it means that FX6 is not an energy-efficient one and we have the next point resulting from this.
> 
> *Water heating*
> The more power any electric equipment consumes, the more heat it produces, therefore it means that in summer when it’s boiling, FX6 users will have their tanks 20 W more heated, then EHEIM professional 3 2080 users.


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## jaypeecee (11 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> You reckon its worth contacting them then? Is there much they can do about it?



Yes, I do think it's worth contacting them. If what you are seeing with your FX5 is 'normal' for this filter, then I would argue that it's not 'fit for purpose'. And if it's not 'normal', then your FX5 may have a faulty pump. If so, it is possible that Hagen/Fluval could repair it or offer you an upgrade to the FX6. Only the latter of these two options is really what you would want as you will be without a filter for a period of time - not good. How long have you had the FX5? Is it still covered by the warranty? You are fortunate that they have a UK office, which should make things a little easier for you:

http://uk.hagen.com/contactus

Good luck!

JPC


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## Wookii (11 Mar 2020)

@Mark Keetch how warm is the pump on the FX5 when you put your hand on it?


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## Keetchy (11 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> I suspect you’ll need to wait 48h for complete “cooling” (again, I’m just not much interested in leaving lights off for a couple days - especially as you’re on a limited timeline re sorting other factors)


Yeah I suppose having lights and C02 off for 48 hrs will be no good, too much fluctuation. And in trying to get the tank algae free before l leave to make it easier for the wife to maintain.



Fisher2007 said:


> Could it be a dodgy pump in the filter?  Years ago when I had my marine system I had a submerged return pump that worked but was actually faulty and producing excessive heat (and I mean it was border line too hot to touch)?  Long shot but at idea.  Maybe disconnect the filter and see how hot the internal components are running


So I've just touched the filter housing and the motor housing and they are not hot to touch. The motor housing is luke warm but definitely not hot.



Wookii said:


> That was my thinking too. There isn't much on Google that I could find, except this thread on another forum:
> 
> https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfi...otor-unit-is-a-bit-hot-on-the-outside.313444/
> 
> ...


Thanks bud, I'll have a read of those and see if I can relate to any of them. The plan for when I move house will be to replace the FX5 with a Oase filter anyway.



jaypeecee said:


> Yes, I do think it's worth contacting them. If what you are seeing with your FX5 is 'normal' for this filter, then I would argue that it's not 'fit for purpose'. And if it's not 'normal', then your FX5 may have a faulty pump. If so, it is possible that Hagen/Fluval could repair it or offer you an upgrade to the FX6. Only the latter of these two options is really what you would want as you will be without a filter for a period of time - not good. How long have you had the FX5? Is it still covered by the warranty? You are fortunate that they have a UK office, which should make things a little easier for you:
> 
> http://uk.hagen.com/contactus
> 
> ...


Thanks Jay. I'll get in contact with them and see what they say. Problem is I bought the FX5 second hand and I have had it for about 5 years.



Wookii said:


> @Mark Keetch how warm is the pump on the FX5 when you put your hand on it?


It's not that warm at all bud


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## Keetchy (11 Mar 2020)

So room heater turned down by half last night and tank heater unplugged all night. Tank water is 24.8 with controller in "cool" mode and the room temp is just over 24.

Strange how I turned the room heater down but yet its warmer in the room this morning than it was the other morning. Its clearly a warmer day today then


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## Aqua sobriquet (11 Mar 2020)

I have a little 10L Nano without a heater that is warmer than it should be, I’m sure it’s the internal filter causing it.


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## Keetchy (11 Mar 2020)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> I have a little 10L Nano without a heater that is warmer than it should be, I’m sure it’s the internal filter causing it.


Is your tank warmer than your room temp then?


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## Wookii (11 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> So room heater turned down by half last night and tank heater unplugged all night. Tank water is 24.8 with controller in "cool" mode and the room temp is just over 24.
> 
> Strange how I turned the room heater down but yet its warmer in the room this morning than it was the other morning. Its clearly a warmer day today then



You must be cold blooded lol - If the wife ever cranks our thermostat much over 20 degrees, I start sweating and threatening that I'dd start walking around in my pants!


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## Keetchy (11 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> You must be cold blooded lol - If the wife ever cranks our thermostat much over 20 degrees, I start sweating and threatening that I'dd start walking around in my pants!


Haha. To be fair, it doesn't feel that warm here.
So far its 22.5 in the front room but 24.1 in the tank


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## Keetchy (12 Mar 2020)

So after turning heating down by quite a bit last night, this morning the room temp is 21.5 and tank is sitting at 23.5.

So although there's still a 2°C difference, its looking like it is room temp related rather than hardware in the tank


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## Wookii (12 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> So after turning heating down by quite a bit last night, this morning the room temp is 21.5 and tank is sitting at 23.5.
> 
> So although there's still a 2°C difference, its looking like it is room temp related rather than hardware in the tank



It's still a hardware thing to be honest, as something is still adding 2°C of additional heat to your tank, when really it shouldn't be. Otherwise, all things being equal, your tank water and room temperature should reach equilibrium and be the same temperature.


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## Keetchy (12 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> It's still a hardware thing to be honest, as something is still adding 2°C of additional heat to your tank, when really it shouldn't be. Otherwise, all things being equal, your tank water and room temperature should reach equilibrium and be the same temperature.


Yeah good point. Fluval replied back to me saying a build up of crap around the impella or media and hoses can cause friction therefore leading to heat. Its definitely not media or pipes as I cleaned them yesterday with WC. Haven't cleaned the impella though in probably over a year. So will check that out next time the filter is out


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## Wookii (12 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Yeah good point. Fluval replied back to me saying a build up of crap around the impella or media and hoses can cause friction therefore leading to heat. Its definitely not media or pipes as I cleaned them yesterday with WC. Haven't cleaned the impella though in probably over a year. So will check that out next time the filter is out



Well worth having a go at that then as part of your process of elimination.


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## Fisher2007 (12 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Yeah good point. Fluval replied back to me saying a build up of crap around the impella or media and hoses can cause friction therefore leading to heat. Its definitely not media or pipes as I cleaned them yesterday with WC. Haven't cleaned the impella though in probably over a year. So will check that out next time the filter is out



You'll probably find a marked improvement in the flow once the impellor is cleaned too.  It's surprising how much rubbish coats the impellor over time


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## Keetchy (12 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> Well worth having a go at that then as part of your process of elimination.


Yeah I'll get straight on that when its out next



Fisher2007 said:


> You'll probably find a marked improvement in the flow once the impellor is cleaned too.  It's surprising how much rubbish coats the impellor over time


Ah that'll be good. Although the flow in the tank is good as it is. If not......too good. Its funny watching some of the little fish trying to swim against the flow


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## jaypeecee (12 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Fluval replied back to me saying a build up of crap around the impella or media and hoses can cause friction therefore leading to heat. Its definitely not media or pipes as I cleaned them yesterday with WC. Haven't cleaned the impella though in probably over a year.



Hi @Mark Keetch 

I'm pleased that you contacted Fluval. Sounds like it was worthwhile. The impeller, impeller shaft and impeller chamber are all worth checking every time you clean the filter media. It is a good idea to keep a spare impeller and impeller shaft should you ever have a breakage. I'm not familiar with the Fluval filters but, on my Eheim external filter, if anything was going to break, it would be the impeller shaft. It is a thin rod of ceramic material on the Eheim. As such, it is likely to be brittle.

JPC


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## Keetchy (12 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Mark Keetch
> 
> I'm pleased that you contacted Fluval. Sounds like it was worthwhile. The impeller, impeller shaft and impeller chamber are all worth checking every time you clean the filter media. It is a good idea to keep a spare impeller and impeller shaft should you ever have a breakage. I'm not familiar with the Fluval filters but, on my Eheim external filter, if anything was going to break, it would be the impeller shaft. It is a thin rod of ceramic material on the Eheim. As such, it is likely to be brittle.
> 
> JPC


Yeah good shout bud. I dont know what's involved in getting to the impeller which is why I haven't checked it before. If there is a seal or o ring involved then I'm worried that if its regularly disturbed, it could fail and cause a leak   But I'll definitely check it on the next WC. To be honest when I move house, I'm gonna buy a Oase filter and keep the FX5 as a spare.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (14 Mar 2020)

Is your tank near the heat source for the room (radiator?)?


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## Aqua sobriquet (16 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Is your tank warmer than your room temp then?



Yes, but luckily only a little. Seems quite stable as well for such a small tank.


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## Todd_B (9 May 2021)

sorry for reviving an old thread but I'm in a similar situation here
May I ask you what thermometer do you use? And what climate do you live in? 
My tank always keeps above average room temperature and I'm worried about it a lot 


Mark Keetch said:


> So I'm not sure what's going on here. The room temp is just over 22°C but in the tank is 25°C.
> 
> Heater isn't locked on because its wired into a controller which is not sending a signal for the heater to come on. Controller is set to 24°C.
> 
> ...


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