# Juwel Bioflow 3.0 Compact



## Martin cape (29 Dec 2012)

Hi all,

Is my filter setup good for growing aquatic plants? I will be increasing water hardness with salts and dosing ferts using Sera Florena. 

But, does any of my filter media affect/counteract this?

From top to bottom in the filter I have:

White Polypad
Black Carbon sponge
Green nitrate filter sponge
Blue coarse sponge
Cirax white stone cage
2 fine blue sponges.


----------



## Arana (29 Dec 2012)

Never used this filter but you could do without the Green nitrate filter sponge, you want to be adding Nitrates not removing them


----------



## Ed Seeley (29 Dec 2012)

Keep the cirax media (and I like to add sintered glass media to any filter I run too as I like this media), the fine and coarse blue sponges and use the white pads for that final polish but I'd not use the carbon or nitrate removing pads.  You may need more flow than just this filter can provide to run your tank though.


----------



## Martin cape (29 Dec 2012)

Hmmm ok. Ill ditch the nitrate and carbon. How come the flow won't be enough Ed? It's 600 l/ph I think.


----------



## linkinruss (29 Dec 2012)

Even though I have the same filter, I did get rid of the Nitrate sponge but kept everything else.
I did also add an extra external filter so the combined two are perfect to get the flow around my tank.

The external is a Eheim Ecco Pro 200


----------



## Martin cape (29 Dec 2012)

It looks like the flow goes right round the tank. Can see the Valisneria move with the current in the direction of the filter box. 

Ill take out the Nitrate sponge and carbon I think. Just replace them with another coarse blue pad.


----------



## Antipofish (29 Dec 2012)

Its not so much "flow" per se, as "distribution".  In order to get full distribution of CO2 and ferts (to the substrate level and evenly throughout the tank) you generally need high flow.  Its not always the case though, but for newer plant enthusiasts high flow makes thing a bit easier   If you find the juwel works for you, dont fix what aint broke. Your plants will soon tell you if things are ok.


----------



## stu_ (29 Dec 2012)

Sorry what's the tank size?
I've yet to read anyone who thought that the 'green' pad actually removes nitrAtes.
Why not just leave it there as another sponge (saves buying another one)
Also, if you're going to dose the water column for ferts,doesn't carbon remove some organics?.
I can think of several people on here that use it.


----------



## Martin cape (29 Dec 2012)

To be fair I never thought the nitrate sponges worked per se, as they are only supposed to have a pellet or something in them. 

But I do know I have very low nitrates. Last one was 3.5 ppm. My tap water has 1ppm in it. I do weekly water changes of 25 litres, tank is a Rio 180 but think there is only about 130 litres in it.


----------



## stu_ (29 Dec 2012)

i run the same system, and found the internal on it's own never quite did it.
Ran a Koralia nano 900 for a while, now i use a small external with it.This helps with the flow & extra filtration.
Not 100% sure, but i think juwel do a 1000lph powerhead that may well fit in there.To be honest, the price this costs, you might as well invest in a decent external that'll do the whole tank.
HTH


----------



## Antipofish (29 Dec 2012)

The odd thing is, i have my plants in a rio125 at the moment.  im also running an eheim external but that was to get the juwel filter seeded.  i will be reducing the media in the external over a 2 week period until it is gone completely at which point i will be using just the internl filter (as space dictates).  if i need a koralia i will add it.  In my main tank (when i decide what its going to change to) i will get a vortech


----------



## Ed Seeley (29 Dec 2012)

Martin cape said:


> Hmmm ok. Ill ditch the nitrate and carbon. How come the flow won't be enough Ed? It's 600 l/ph I think.


 
You want to aim for a round 10x the stated flow as most equipment ratings are very optomisitic.  For your rio 180 you want a combined flow rate of at least 1,800lph of your pumps and filters so that would be three filters that size or you can add a powerhead like a koralia to boost the flow.  These powerheads produce very high flows but in a broad pattern so you can use one that seems like it would turn your tank into a washing machine on the rated turnover quite safely.  I wrote about setting up this make and size of tank as a high tech planted tack in the tutorials section a few years ago.  The article's still there.


----------



## Ed Seeley (29 Dec 2012)

Antipofish said:


> if i need a koralia i will add it. In my main tank (when i decide what its going to change to) i will get a vortech


 
I have a vortech on my marine tank (and will be buying another to run in anti-synch when I upgrade soon) but to be honest I wouldn't waste the money on one for a planted tank.  In a reef tank the flow patterns and wireless connectivity are amazing in keeping corals happy but in a planted tank you just want good distribution of ferts and CO2 and decent removal of waste.  A much cheaper koralia will do that just as well, if not better as it can be pivoted around on it's fixing and pointed down towards the substrate.  With a vortech you're stuck with a straight horizontal flow due to it's magnetic fixing method.


----------



## Antipofish (30 Dec 2012)

Ed Seeley said:


> I have a vortech on my marine tank (and will be buying another to run in anti-synch when I upgrade soon) but to be honest I wouldn't waste the money on one for a planted tank. In a reef tank the flow patterns and wireless connectivity are amazing in keeping corals happy but in a planted tank you just want good distribution of ferts and CO2 and decent removal of waste. A much cheaper koralia will do that just as well, if not better as it can be pivoted around on it's fixing and pointed down towards the substrate. With a vortech you're stuck with a straight horizontal flow due to it's magnetic fixing method.


 
Hi Ed
I thought the Vortech had functions that would overcome the linear flow it produces ?  I read about one that was specifically for waste transport for example.  And surely if it reaches everywhere for corals, it will distribute CO2 equally well ?  The reason I was thinking about the Vortech was its small footprint in the tank.  I felt it was far less visible than a Korallia.  I hate stuff in the tank as it is and my thoughts were "Well it may as well be small and flash" lol.  So don't you believe the varying wave functions etc would generate enough distribution ?


----------



## Martin cape (30 Dec 2012)

With the Koralia, where would it be positioned in the tank?

The original filter box is in the back right corner with the output directing to the front middle for some reason. (About 2 inches below the surface) The out of the filter is at 90 degrees to the in flow. 

1. Should the flow be directed along the back wall of the tank?
2. Would the Koralia then be positioned on the left side, front (mid way down the tank) to push water to the filters out take?


----------



## stu_ (30 Dec 2012)

Ed's guide on the other thread is a good one.
I run my Rio with the flow from the internal along the back wall.
Then a Koralia on the opposite side wall pushing the water back along the front.
Experimenting with flow is one of the important things to learn.
Your planting layout means that you'll have to work out what works best for you.
On a side note, standard T5 lighting? Planning on CO2?

edit: sorry for spamming with pics, this worked for me (non co2)

 [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/87853640@N06/][/url]


----------



## Martin cape (30 Dec 2012)

Cheers Stu. 

Yea standard T5 lighting. In the process of getting all the stuff together for CO2 injection. 

Did you need to take the standard filter nozzle off to get it to go along the back wall? They are all angled.


----------



## DTL (30 Dec 2012)

Martin cape said:


> With the Koralia, where would it be positioned in the tank?
> 
> The original filter box is in the back right corner with the output directing to the front middle for some reason. (About 2 inches below the surface) The out of the filter is at 90 degrees to the in flow.
> 
> ...


 

Thought I'd add a short film (not great) of how I've set up my Koralia above my diffuser. Creates a bit of a "snowstorm" but I can definitely see where my CO2 is going. Fish seem to enjoy swimming into the flow too.


----------



## Martin cape (30 Dec 2012)

Cool . So I need my filter box aiming along back wall. Then, in the front corner, the little Koralia above the diffuser (when I get it going).


----------



## Arana (30 Dec 2012)

That's exactly how i have mine too, works a treat


----------



## Martin cape (30 Dec 2012)

Just gotta convince the Mrs to have more "stuff" in the tank lol


----------



## stu_ (30 Dec 2012)

Martin cape said:


> Just gotta convince the Mrs to have more "stuff" in the tank lol


Don't we all 
I had something similar to one of these adaptors knocking about.It straightened out the outflow
 90046 JUWEL POWERHEAD DIVERSION NOZZLE SET AQUARIUM FISH TANK WATER PUMP | eBay
You might find a single around sonewhere.The link's just to show what i mean


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2012)

Some nice tanks there!  I put my koralia in the back corner opposite the filter but angled so that it pointed towards the front and the substrate and put my CO2 diffuser underneath it.  It meant it was a little less obvious than at the front but still moved the water just as well.


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2012)

Antipofish said:


> Hi Ed
> I thought the Vortech had functions that would overcome the linear flow it produces ? I read about one that was specifically for waste transport for example. And surely if it reaches everywhere for corals, it will distribute CO2 equally well ? The reason I was thinking about the Vortech was its small footprint in the tank. I felt it was far less visible than a Korallia. I hate stuff in the tank as it is and my thoughts were "Well it may as well be small and flash" lol. So don't you believe the varying wave functions etc would generate enough distribution ?


 
The vortech is small and flash and has lots of great functions but none of them can overcome the fact that the vortech can't be angled.  For a reef tank where you want very high flow (50x the tank's volume) this isn't a big deal but at only 10x volume it would be more noticeable IMO.  Also all the different modes give great options for a reef tank about varying flow rates and pulses but it still just shoves water in one direction and then cuts that flow off.  My MP10es is on an 18" cube tank and when I upgrade it to a slightly larger cube I'm going to add another one running on the other back wall (it's in a corner) in anti-synch and then I think I'll be getting the most out of all the different functions.

Don't get me wrong the vortech will easily move enough water but it won't take water from the top of the tank and direct it down towards the substrate which a koralia, tunze or similar will do easily and in a planted tank this is a big advantage IMO if you sit a koralia near the top above you CO2 diffuser angled towards the substrate, blowing the CO2 rich water towards the low growing plants on the substrate.

The waste transport mode you talked about (nutrient transport mode) is just a mode where it alternates from a short pulse mode (wave) and longer blasts to keep the water swirling around.  It works fine but it doesn't magically lift debris as well as it might.  If was done with two vortechs working against each other (anti-synch) I reckon it would again work much better.

All the other functions on it too are all great but I don't think they'll add to what a koralia or tunze could do in a planted tank without any controller.  In a reef tank I'd go with a vortech every day!


----------



## Antipofish (30 Dec 2012)

Ed Seeley said:


> The vortech is small and flash and has lots of great functions but none of them can overcome the fact that the vortech can't be angled. For a reef tank where you want very high flow (50x the tank's volume) this isn't a big deal but at only 10x volume it would be more noticeable IMO. Also all the different modes give great options for a reef tank about varying flow rates and pulses but it still just shoves water in one direction and then cuts that flow off. My MP10es is on an 18" cube tank and when I upgrade it to a slightly larger cube I'm going to add another one running on the other back wall (it's in a corner) in anti-synch and then I think I'll be getting the most out of all the different functions.
> 
> Don't get me wrong the vortech will easily move enough water but it won't take water from the top of the tank and direct it down towards the substrate which a koralia, tunze or similar will do easily and in a planted tank this is a big advantage IMO if you sit a koralia near the top above you CO2 diffuser angled towards the substrate, blowing the CO2 rich water towards the low growing plants on the substrate.
> 
> ...


 
OK Cool.  One of the main points you made Ed is that a Korallia will take water from the top and send it to the bottom.  What if my CO2 is being provided at the bottom of the tank already by the diffuser >  By putting the Vortech (or whatever pump) near the bottom too, then would that circulate the CO2 around the bottom of the tank ?  It would rise naturally and if the Vortech was working in opposition to (say a Juwel internal) the other filter then you would get a circular flow with rising CO2 ?  

I do agree that its a shame the Vortech is not able to adjust its plane.


----------



## Ed Seeley (30 Dec 2012)

Antipofish said:


> OK Cool. One of the main points you made Ed is that a Korallia will take water from the top and send it to the bottom. What if my CO2 is being provided at the bottom of the tank already by the diffuser > By putting the Vortech (or whatever pump) near the bottom too, then would that circulate the CO2 around the bottom of the tank ? It would rise naturally and if the Vortech was working in opposition to (say a Juwel internal) the other filter then you would get a circular flow with rising CO2 ?
> 
> I do agree that its a shame the Vortech is not able to adjust its plane.


 
Assuming your CO2 is coming out of the diffuser as small bubbles then those bubbles need to be in contact with the water column for as long as possible to diffuse into the water.  I did this by letting them rise up in the water column as far as possible and then positioning the koralia to push them back down towards the substrate giving them extra time to diffuse again.  It's not the only way to do it but it worked for me.

With picking up the bubbles lower down you will get exactly the pattern you suggest which will work fine, I just liked to let them rise further first as I felt more CO2 would diffuse and the remaining bubbles would decrease in size as they rose (due to the CO2 diffusing into the water) and then be easier to push around the tank by the water flow, but that was really just my preference.


----------

