# 259L bookcase rebirth



## greenink

Starting my second tank... Journal will be a slow build as am waiting for various pieces on order. But I’ve learnt that planning things properly, and taking time to get it right, is the best way to go.

Hoping for help in thinking it through! Comments and advice on my other journal have been seriously helpful (am amazed that it’s now had more than 4300 views). This one I hope I’ll get right.


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## greenink

*New journal - 259L bookcase tank - bits of kit*

So here’s the hardware set up, arriving in dribs and drabs through the post, with some of the thinking behind it. Have found you can do most of it for much less than you’d think if you’re prepared to DIY a few things (especially intakes with acrylic pipe and clear pressure hose bought online NOT from an aquarium retailer).

*TANK*

Custom built 259L rimless, braceless tank, with OptiWhite front panel, 120w * 40d * 53h. White frosting sheet applied to rear of tank.

Roma 240 stand (120w * 40d * 70h) - this is a good size, but want something rimless, so am going for just the base and a custom tank on top

Aqualumi 48 inch light pendant, with 4 * T5 lights, hung with Easi roll reflector hangers to allow easy movement up and down. Planning on 5hrs a day with two tubes to start, maybe a 1hr burst in the middle with all four. Much cheaper than other lights - and have been unimpressed with LEDs - so will see how it goes!

*FILTRATION AND CO2*

All Pond Solutions 1000 EF filter (1000LPH) with 9W UV steriliser.  No idea if the UV has any impact, but is a cheap filter for the power and has had good reviews. 15mm internal hose diameter.

Sachem Purigen (100ml) bagged, to get the water seriously clear. Otherwise standard filter media.

DIY filter intakes and outlets using clear acrylic tube, a paint gun and a pipe bending spring, as in my other journal. Also using clear plastic pressure hose bought online (much cheaper).

Additional (variable) flow, CO2 and heating provided by a second circuit of Eheim Compact+ 3000 Pump (1500-3000 LPH, 19mm internal hose diameter). I like doing it this way as it keeps the filter circuit free of flow-reducing paraphernalia and gives more options. In this circuit is an inline Aquamedic 1000 diffuser, 2KG FE CO2, ebay solenoid and regulator, and Hydor 300W inline heater. Aiming for 23 degrees and lime green drop checker. 

Three glass drop checkers from HK on ebay, as want to check the flow is right in my first big tank and that CO2 is getting everywhere - as won’t be able to see the bubbles with the Aquamedic (I hope) and am used to an UP inline diffuser.

*HARDSCAPE*

Visiting a quarry at some point over the next few weeks. Hoping for some Gneiss or other nice rocks. Amazed by how much cheaper they are than from aquarium retailers - these are about 15p a kg.






May recycle the redmoor from my current tank too, but will see if that’s overkill. Would like a much more mountainous look in this tank so may not work. And plan to get the hardscape bang on before planting up - this was a major error in my previous tank as I had to redo it lots.

Substrate will be largely akadama, with a dorset pea gravel foreground and ‘river bed’ going into the background.

*DOSING*

Plan on EI dosing, with 50% water changes a week using London tapwater and Seachem Prime dechlorinator.

*FEEDING*

Will use mixed frozen tropical fish food, every couple of days, in a floating worm feeder with a bit cut out of the bottom so the food drops out the bottom when it thaws: do this in my current tank and releases food slowly enough for fish to eat before it hits the bottom.

*PLANTS and FISH*

Am doing a nifty plan... will post later.


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## Mark Evans

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

I've been going to CED stone supplies for a couple of years now. My IAPLC top 100 was using their stone. My current 90cm is also using their stone. 

Great start to a journal


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## greenink

*Fauna*

The plan is: test the water with a few neon tetras from my existing tank. then start off an algae crew: amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, ottos, maybe some other shrimp too - blue shrimp breed in freshwater so probably those. I’ll slowly grow this crew.

Then a proper shoal of tetras (probably neon). And then I’ll think about something more interesting... 

Have learned to keep it simple in terms of fish, that big shoals of small fish make the tank look much bigger, and that catfish are to be avoided at all costs if you’re trying to grow a carpet of HC / glosso. Also want to give the shrimp as much chance as possible to breed, so the dwarf puffers will stay in the smaller tank...


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## greenink

*Hardscape*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> I've been going to CED stone supplies for a couple of years now. My IAPLC top 100 was using their stone. My current 90cm is also using their stone.



Thanks Mark - have learned a lot from your two recent journals. Wondered if you had any tips for how to break up stone into smaller pieces.



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Great start to a journal



Am trying to put up as much technical detail as possible, as I found that really useful in other people's journals when I first started. 

Here’s a sketch of my initial plan for the hardscape. 





Going for a twin peak type layout, with a gravel foreground and akadama in the back. Obviously will depend a lot on the actual stones I get and whether I can break them up... 

Want an open feel to the front of the tank, with a big slope towards the back. Will try and use golden ratios as much as I can.


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## greenink

*Planting plan*

Here’s a sketch of my planting and initial layout plans over the top. Sure it will all change before I get the kit assembled properly. But thought useful to give an idea of what I'm aiming for.





[If you click on this, you can see a bigger version with more detail]

Think in the long run would look better with the left and right 'mountains' to be more similar than in this plan, but am torn between two different schemes so thought might as well have both to start with... particularly as I'm still learning how to grow different plants. The better looking side may take over the worse side in the long run!

Foreground of Hemianthus cuba on the left side and Glosso to the right. Maybe some Marsilea around the ‘river’ channel in the middle - have never used this before so want to try it out. Has anyone had experience with it?

May put some Hydrocotyle in just behind these to break up the transition to taller plants - have in my smaller tank now and love it. The round shaped leaves and brightness are good, and provide a strong contrast with other plants.

Then Ranunculus behind the HC and Staurogyne behind the Glosso. Haven’t used Ranunculus before, but have seen it in some forum tanks and looks great - like the layering it provides. Staurogyne is now growing well in my tank as a carpet so hope I can just transfer some of this over.

Then various Crypts in the mid-ground: not sure about my choice of these though! Any suggestions would be really welcome. Want a deeper colour behind the Stauro and Ranunculus. Have been a bad judge of how big they get in the past, so thought I’d go for mainly low growing ones.

Then tall red stems at the back. Have grown Pogostemon in my smaller tank, which I love, and have some Limnophila aromatica, which is also great. But put will put in some Rotala and Aponogeton - neither of which I've grown before.

Expect the final tank to have fewer species of plants in it - but want to try out this lot and then take out plants that aren’t doing so well or don’t work with the others. Would appreciate any suggestions on plants to try, or better replacements for my suggestions.

How does that sound? Haven’t done a tank this large before so not sure if that’s too ambitious in terms of planting - will it be too cramped when it’s grown in properly? Do I have space for a little bit of gravel foreground and four ‘rows’ of plants? Any other advice or thoughts?


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## Mark Evans

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

What an incredible plan! 

For sure you plant choice will work. Maybe be a bit sparse with plants like crypts, just to accent areas.

depending on what rock you choose, add a second one to the right hand side. 

Brilliant homework though mate.


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

got to echo what mark said. superb planning, i'm off to go cut and paste some plant pictures now 

plus i've just discovered there is a  CED stone supplies in scotland!


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## darren636

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

good god man!


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> good god man!


 

LMAO !  Thats what I thought.  This has to be the most thorough and well put together start to a journal I have read so far.  What incredible effort


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## greenink

*New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

Thanks - now just for the growing plants part


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## greenink

*New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

Final piece ordered - substrate. Have found this instead of akadama:

http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=84_87

The moler clay at the bottom is the same as tesco cat litter (supplied by the same danish firm) but no perfume and pretty much the same price.





Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that and 60l of the standard. Want to see if the powder type works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...


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## Gill

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

What did you use to do the scaping mock up ??


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## greenink

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

keynote (the mac powerpoint) and the pictures on the tropica site: http://www.tropica.com/plants/plant-list-a-z.aspx


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Final piece ordered - substrate. Have found this instead of akadama:
> 
> http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/index.php?cPath=84_87
> 
> The moler clay at the bottom is the same as tesco cat litter (supplied by the same danish firm) but no perfume and pretty much the same price.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that and 60l of the standard. Want to see if the powder type works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...



Hi Mike, are you saying this is exactly the same thing until Tesco have the perfume added ?


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## greenink

*New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

Yes


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Yes


 WOW !   And how does that compare to Akadama (they do different grades too), or Shohin pre molar clay ?  Are they all pretty much the same thing / density / CEC etc ?


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## Ian Holdich

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

ditch that APS filter Mike, i ran one of the 1000's on my old 190 ltr and tested it after a few weeks and flow dropped to near on 200 lph... a very very poor filter IME. I also know of other who have had the same problems.


ps, good plan.


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> WOW !   And how does that compare to Akadama (they do different grades too), or Shohin pre molar clay ?  Are they all pretty much the same thing / density / CEC etc ?
Click to expand...


also grain softness.... crushability


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## greenink

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> ditch that APS filter Mike, i ran one of the 1000's on my old 190 ltr and tested it after a few weeks and flow dropped to near on 200 lph... a very very poor filter IME. I also know of other who have had the same problems.



Thanks - really useful. Seems a lot of people have had flow issues with it. By coincidence my Eheim Ecco snapped today   





So it means I'll have to get one new filter anyway. So have gone for the Eheim Professional 3 2073 which I'll use on this tank and downgrade the APS one on my 70L, where it should be fine. The Pro 3 is much much easier to prime and generally better feel all round. Wish I'd gone for it in the first place.

Otherwise progress coming along. Lots of stuff arriving by post, including a package from
Tony Swinney who sent me all the plants from his nano, so I'm growing those up.


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## greenink

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				JohnC said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> WOW !   And how does that compare to Akadama (they do different grades too), or Shohin pre molar clay ?  Are they all pretty much the same thing / density / CEC etc ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> also grain softness.... crushability
Click to expand...


Yup this stuff should be uncrushable, whereas Akadama apparently slowly pulverises. (Will see if that's true). No idea about the chemistry. Although apparently Akadama is mined near the Japanese nuclear reactors that went wrong, and can't be mined any more, so that's the end of that.


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## greenink

*Gravel*

Bag of Dorset Gravel arrived today. Not that impressed - is very dark. Some standard old gravel I had lying about on the left, Dorset on the right. 






Has anyone used this for a gravel foreground / river bed fading into the back - sort of this kind of thing:













Which would you go for? Or should I just switch to sand? The Dorset gravel is spikier too - that might be good for keeping it a bit aerated maybe?


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

I will be honest, but please don't take offence.  I don't like either !  I think they look too old school in a weird way.  I reckon some nice Unipac samoa or senegal sand would look a lot better.  But thats the trouble, its only opinion.


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## darren636

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

yeah. They just look very 1980's...


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## greenink

*New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

Yup I agree - think sand it is. My LFS is very 80s.


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Yup I agree - think sand it is. My LFS is very 80s.



95% of all LFS's are very 80's which is unfortunately why they are going out of business now the world has moved into the internet age.


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## greenink

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*

Think you're right about the Samoa sand:





Is there a cheaper alternative that looks similar? Feels wrong paying £16 for a bag of gravel!

Four weeks to go 'till the optiwhite arrives. Turns out I did my maths wrong - it's actually 120 * 40 *54 in 12mm - being made by AC Aquatics. So that's 259 litres if full to the brim...


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 240L bookcase tank*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Think you're right about the Samoa sand:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a cheaper alternative that looks similar? Feels wrong paying £16 for a bag of gravel!
> 
> Four weeks to go 'till the optiwhite arrives. Turns out I did my maths wrong - it's actually 120 * 40 *54 in 12mm - being made by AC Aquatics. So that's 259 litres if full to the brim...




TGM have it a little cheaper   And i think its the fine grade they have.


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## greenink

*Substrate*

So the moler clay has arrived from the bonsai shop in two massive bags, in two different grain sizes. (This is the same stuff as Tesco cat litter, but sorted into sizes, and not perfumed.) Have more than I will ever need!

Here's the difference in grain sizes, wet and dry. The black specks are ADA Amazonia for reference. The large grain is a lot bigger, the small grain is on average a bit smaller. Have tried to get as accurate a colour as possible but not totally easy. Looks about right on my mac screen.





Here's a close up of the larger..





And the smaller...





My hope is that this will hold HC better than my current substrate (gravel with ADA Amazonia bunged on top). So I've decided to do an in-tank test. I've loaded up a fish breeding tank with the coarse moler clay underneath and the fine stuff on top, and planted this up with individual plantlets of hairgrass, glosso and HC. Here's a picture:





And here's a similar area of the tank I've planted up with the same thickness of plants.  





Here's what it looks like overall in the 'greenhouse' tank I'm growing up plants in (with no 'scaping):





Sorry for the quality of the tank pictures - doing it quickly. 

Have to say, almost no clouding of the water after a very quick rinse under the tap. But when I was planting up, lots of air bubbles came up when I disturbed the top, which must be making it a lot lighter, so think it may be worth properly soaking it before planting up in the actual tank.

Really noticed how much the ADA stuff is crumbling when I took it out of the tank. Can't remember how old it is, but not very!


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*

Thanks for putting the effort into this. I'm considering getting a bag of the molar clay for "tight sock" bulking out of more expensive substrate.


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## darren636

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*

tight sock! That is a great idea. Count me in.


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## greenink

*Inspiration*

Everything but the tank is here. Have had a bit of time to think about the layout, and look at some similar ‘scapes from across the web, so have revised my plans a bit. ?Here’s where I’ve drawn (stolen) ideas from...

I love the ‘inlet’ look in this.





Victor shows how hydrocotyle can look amazing in front of rocks, and how high you can go with steep banking. Also the look of ranunculus that I’m going for too.





Love the red plant backdrop to this:





And the ‘bay / river’ in this, the way it turns away from you into the distance.





The rockwork in this, how it follows lines away from the centre hills





This Amano tank, with lots of stauro climbing up the hills (video):

http://youtu.be/GVG8DFF9-xg

Here's a close up of the stauro...





And a walk in Dorset recently... the rolling hills overlapping.





So here’s my improved scheme, which will have bits shamelessly nicked from all of those:





Doesn’t quite do what I’m thinking justice - but will just have to wait for the real hardscaping to begin. Think improvements are:


Generally a bit more ‘golden rules’ friendly... 1/3’s everywhere
‘Inlet’ on the left is more interesting
Less is more! Have cut out quite a few plant types to focus on ones where (a) I’ve had success in the past and (b) there’s more of a flow and natural grouping
Included some Myriophyllum - saw this in the LFS and is just incredible
Less symmetrical and balanced, but will be banked higher
Crypts placed more strategically (though will clearly have to see on the actual layout!)


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*

RE: Molar Clay. Got my massive sack last week (so so so cheap).

I got the finer stuff. it was quick dusty so needed a lot of rinsing to stop the red water. I did love the effect of putting this baked substrate in water for the first time. fizzes with dust coming off like dry ice. 

I'll back up what you said earlier. very hard grains, no crushing. Just what the doctor ordered for my scaping last night..

Best Regards,
John


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*



			
				JohnC said:
			
		

> RE: Molar Clay. Got my massive sack last week (so so so cheap).
> 
> I got the finer stuff. it was quick dusty so needed a lot of rinsing to stop the red water. I did love the effect of putting this baked substrate in water for the first time. fizzes with dust coming off like dry ice.
> 
> I'll back up what you said earlier. very hard grains, no crushing. Just what the doctor ordered for my scaping last night..
> 
> Best Regards,
> John




Hi John, where did you get i from and how fine are the grains of the one you got ? Thanks,


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## JohnC

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> JohnC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RE: Molar Clay. Got my massive sack last week (so so so cheap).
> 
> I got the finer stuff. it was quick dusty so needed a lot of rinsing to stop the red water. I did love the effect of putting this baked substrate in water for the first time. fizzes with dust coming off like dry ice.
> 
> I'll back up what you said earlier. very hard grains, no crushing. Just what the doctor ordered for my scaping last night..
> 
> Best Regards,
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi John, where did you get i from and how fine are the grains of the one you got ? Thanks,
Click to expand...


Check back to page 2 on this journal for all the details


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## Antipofish

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*



			
				JohnC said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi John, where did you get i from and how fine are the grains of the one you got ? Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check back to page 2 on this journal for all the details
Click to expand...


DOH ! Thanks


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## Calzone

*Re: New journal - 259L bookcase tank*

Plans looking good Mike.  Excellent idea to use the Tropica images and paste them into your mock up.  Gives a much better sense if, like me, your imagination struggles to hold onto a concept (I blame lack of sleep due to three kids!!)

Re your steep banking and transition into sand.  I have got two fairly steep mounds in my yet-to-be-planted aquascape, albeit using ADA AS New.   They're probably 15-20cm high at the peak.  Keeping them that way is a real challenge.  Its true that ADA AS is spherical and so won't hold as steep an angle without drooping, whereas your clay might have somewhat better friction.  However, I had to use a fair amount of TGM substrate supports, which works but might inhibit roots somewhat.  To be honest any non-perishable material that will hold a curve would do.  And because my slopes stop just before the 5cms of sand at the front, I have a lot of AS falling down and covering the sand up.  I expect this to improve when I plant, but I think also you would be well advised to make the transition to a slope a bit more gradual (mine kind of kicks straight into the slope), or use broken up stones/graded gravels.

Also, consider putting some kind of larger lava rock or inert gravel under the pile at the back - I didn't and obviously this means I've built a big pile out of very expensive AS, and I do have slight concerns about anaerobic zones etc (probably ok with some deep-rooted plants).  Having said that, if you watch the video on the TGM website for their massive island scape, that's a bog hill of AS too and it turned out alright!


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## greenink

*beach sand*

Promise I will actually start this 'scape at some point. Just waiting for the actual tank to be delivered! Shouldn't be too long now. In the meantime, have picked up some sand from a beach in Dorset - so just rinsing the salt out in a trug. 









got lots of graded pebbles from the same place. who needs to pay for stuff i say?


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## greenink

*purple schist stone (and cheap CO2)*

Ordered a couple of 3.15kg CO2 bottles from London Beer Gas today. At £24 delivered, that's the cheapest I can find in London - and is 11 times cheaper than buying 'aquatic' CO2 like this which would cost £270 for the same amount  .

But more importantly, have finally got round to making a trip to the local quarry and picked up some purple schist stone. (Thanks to Mark Evans for the tip off on the quarry and the stone. Think is in his secret tank at the moment... which will show how to use it properly, rather than my half baked attempt.) Here it is in the back of the car:





That's 110kg worth. And here are a few tiny pieces in the small tank I've just stuck in at random to see how they look under aquarium lights.

















Best of all, less than £30 for 110kg. Buying that amount of seriyu would cost a whopping £757     - so this is a good 25 times cheaper  . And doesn't look half bad. The bigger bits are actually nicer - they have more green and colour variation.

Can't wait to get started. Is pretty much all ready...


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## Antipofish

*Re: beach sand*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Promise I will actually start this 'scape at some point. Just waiting for the actual tank to be delivered! Shouldn't be too long now. In the meantime, have picked up some sand from a beach in Dorset - so just rinsing the salt out in a trug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> got lots of graded pebbles from the same place. who needs to pay for stuff i say?



LOL cheapskate !  Its nice gravel though.  FYI you may want to edit the fact you removed this from a beach !  It is actually an offence to do so.  Dumb as that sounds, I have actually heard of people being prosecuted for it.  Just a heads up as I have no qualms about you nicking a bucket of sand from a beach that probably loses tens of tons due to normal coastal erosion every year.  Loving the fact you are so like me and get so excited to get a bargain


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## sarahtermite

*Re: purple schist stone (and cheap CO2)*



> That's 110kg worth. And here are a few tiny pieces in the small tank I've just stuck in at random to see how they look under aquarium lights.



And they look fab! Really nice colours, even in these small bits. Can't wait to see the full version!


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## hotweldfire

*Re: purple schist stone (and cheap CO2)*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Ordered a couple of 3.15kg CO2 bottles from London Beer Gas today. At £24 delivered, that's the cheapest I can find in London - and is 11 times cheaper than buying 'aquatic' CO2 like this which would cost £270 for the same amount  .



Mike, could you tell me how tall that bottle stands with a reg on it? Just about lost all patience with my D-D disposable kit but it's the only thing I can find that will fit into my cabinet upright.


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## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - purple schist stone*

also, do you have to put a deposite on those bottles?


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## greenink

*Re: purple schist stone (and cheap CO2)*



			
				hotweldfire said:
			
		

> Mike, could you tell me how tall that bottle stands with a reg on it? Just about lost all patience with my D-D disposable kit but it's the only thing I can find that will fit into my cabinet upright.



60cm, £40 deposit.



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> no qualms about you nicking a bucket of sand from a beach



It just appeared in my car. Nothing to do with me.



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> And they look fab! Really nice colours, even in these small bits. Can't wait to see the full version!



Cheers. Tank arrives on Saturday.


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## hotweldfire

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - purple schist stone*

Yeah, that's what I thought. Too tall.


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## Antipofish

*Re: purple schist stone (and cheap CO2)*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> hotweldfire said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, could you tell me how tall that bottle stands with a reg on it? Just about lost all patience with my D-D disposable kit but it's the only thing I can find that will fit into my cabinet upright.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 60cm, £40 deposit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no qualms about you nicking a bucket of sand from a beach
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It just appeared in my car. Nothing to do with me.
Click to expand...


Brushed off the bottom of your shoes a few thousand times huh ? LMAO


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## greenink

*diy pipes*

Here's how to make cheap, nice looking pipes.

1. Order in some PVC pipe - for 16/22 hose use 16mm (internal)/20mm pipe. (Eheim hard plastic green tubing is 14/20 so this actually gives better flow than the Eheim supplied stuff).

2. Get a pipe bending spring. 15mm is fine - it has to be a bit less than the internal diameter of the PVC pipe.

3. Put a painstripping gun on the floor and rotate the pipe with the spring inside it over the heat until it begins to 'sag' a little. If it blisters you've gone too hot.






4. Bend the pipe, slowly, a little at a time.





5. Carefully does it. Bend it section by section. Water under the tap 'sets' a section quickly. Best to pull the spring out for each new 'bend' otherwise it can get stuck - the picture below is an example of what not to do! Spring basically got stuck.





(Have done a lilly before by blowing into the pipe while blocked at the end, but now can't be bothered!)





Need long stems on this tank





6. For the intakes have tried three methods:

...drilling small holes. Not perfect - constantly get plants stuck, especially HC.





...supergluing a piece of cheap sieve netting over a cut out portion. Jury is out, though is unexpectedly and unattractively glaring white under water. Also a nightmare to glue with superglue - just wouldn't stick.





Might use a metal sieve next time.





...using a jigsaw to cut a series of lines in the pipe - my newest ruse and looks most similar to the ADA style. By my calculations, 8 * 1mm cuts half way across any tube would give the same surface area as a cross section - so maybe 10 are needed or fewer if they go more than half way across. 






(Need to seal the end - just heat and push together with pliers - before cutting, otherwise it all sags... This one was a bit of an experiment, will do neater next time and file the bits right. Have to say the extreme close up is a bit unflattering!  )





7. Bish bash bosh:





On both sides. Mounted to the wall (for reasons that will become clear) with tool clips (covered in felt so no scratches) so they're easy to slide up and down.  





Simples!


----------



## greenink

*Hardscape and layout*

Right. It's arrived, in place and planted up. Love the open top - so much better. But a lot bigger than I'd expected . Have to say, not quite as good quality as I'd have liked. Silicone is a bit thick and the panels don't line up precisely. Was from AC Aquatics. Don't think I'd recommend. But once it's filled, you don't really notice.

Anyway, here's the setup:





Back and sides of tank are frosted with film, which was a bit of a hassle, but seems to be giving a much more even light at the back. Front is optiwhite.

On to the hardscape. Here's the rock selection. The big bits are massive so broke one of them up.





Here's a test run with some rocks on substrate:





Card dividers and sand in.





Rocks in. 





Divider out.





Filling up... bit of bubble wrap works an absolute treat. Water almost perfectly clear.









Planted up. Had lots more plants than I thought in the little tank - loads on runners.





And water clear (with the help of a bit of purigen). 





A few neon tetras and some amanos in just to make sure it's ok. 

The filter is swapped from the small tank so at least that is fully cycled. Am full EI dosing with 5ml easycarbo a day, 9 hrs of two 36w T5, and CO2 injection through an am1000 - crystal clear water but a bit hard to get the bubble rate right, as is my first time with such a big tank. Flow from the Eheim Pro3 and the the external pump is far more than I need - if I turn the pump up full it's about 15 times... The custom pipes are working really well - very pleased with the intakes and my custom lilly.

Fingers crossed  How's it looking? (Here's a link to a higher resolution picture.) Any suggestions?


----------



## Westyggx

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Mike those pipes look awesome do you fancy making me a set


----------



## Ady34

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Hi Mike,
a very interesting and well thought through set up, one to follow for sure. It certainly brightens up a bookcase!   
Amazing ingenuity and skill on the homemade lily pipes and intakes, they are fantastic and probably saved you a small fortune.
I like the height created by the larger stones, and due to this and their narrower proportions i think the scape would suit a shoal of angelfish, thats what i instantly pictured cruising around anyway.... obviously you have other plans though with the addition of shrimp and neons. Alternatively a shoal of smaller mid/high water fish, (maybe rainbows) would look great, the possibilities are endless!
The small sandy cove to the left is very intriguing and itll be nice to see how this works when the plants fill in. Only one small critique, the right hand side could do with a slightly larger, or more upright rock (than the largest, most foreground) to balance with the rest of the scape. Thats only to my untrained eye mind you, and it does look great regardless.   
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## faizal

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Wow,...Mike,....this is amazing. I like that sandy cove to the left too. What are those 2 tall looking plants at the end of that sandy path called? They really look nice.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> a shoal of angelfish, thats what i instantly pictured cruising around anyway



Last time i had them they ate all my shrimp   



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Only one small critique, the right hand side could do with a slightly larger, or more upright rock (than the largest, most foreground) to balance with the rest of the scape. Thats only to my untrained eye mind you, and it does look great regardless.



Think you're right looking at it. Will wait for it to grow in a bit more properly, then may reassess. Really helpful.



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> Wow,...Mike,....this is amazing. I like that sandy cove to the left too. What are those 2 tall looking plants at the end of that sandy path called? They really look nice.



Cheers   Plant is Limnophila aromatica - gets really red under high light and grows brilliantly. Highly recommend it.


----------



## spyder

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Cheers   Plant is Limnophila aromatica - gets really red under high light and grows brilliantly. Highly recommend it.



Got this growing like a weed but the most colour I get out of it is a slight pink tinge when it hit's the surface. Maybe it's time for more light hahaha.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

yup seems to need a lot. you can also cut each stem into about 4 portions and plant each one - they'll all take


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

One of my amano shrimp just ambushed, dragged to the bottom and ate an ottocinclus. Has anyone seen this before?


----------



## spyder

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> One of my amano shrimp just ambushed, dragged to the bottom and ate an ottocinclus. Has anyone seen this before?



Nope, And I thought they were veggies? They must of been hungry.


----------



## Ady34

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> One of my amano shrimp just ambushed, dragged to the bottom and ate an ottocinclus. Has anyone seen this before?



Hi Mike, 
never heard of that before, ive heard of shrimp becoming fish food but never vice versa, especially taking a live fish!
Very unusual... hopefully it wont become a recurring theme!
Ady.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

i have clearly bred a new killer strain...


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

That's awful! I hope he hasn't developed a taste for Otocinclus now - that could certainly get expensive! (As well as raising ethical issues....)


----------



## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

have  you  been  feeding  both  shrimp  and  otos'  ?


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

the Otto would have been on it's last legs...they have an affinity for smelling inpending death.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> the Otto would have been on it's last legs...they have an affinity for smelling inpending death.



yup, that's what I reckon too. everything else seems to have made the transition ok. just wondering whether there wasn't enough algae yet for the otto to munch. will check for rounded bellies on the others.



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> I like that sandy cove to the left too



The tetras seem to congregate there. Will put a proper photo later, but here's a taster.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> faizal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like that sandy cove to the left too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tetras seem to congregate there. Will put a proper photo later, but here's a taster.
Click to expand...


Love that pic Mike.  When you take the proper photo (and you probably know this, lol, but just in case), try and increase your depth of field slightly so that the front rocks are in focus too, but the back ones are out of focus.  That would make an amazing shot IMO   How lucky for you that the rocks is their favourite hang out spot.


----------



## greenink

*One week*

Here's the first week update. Small hardscape changes, some crypts in there (not sure about positioning - suggestions?), and some HC, which seems not to be melting.





Higher res image here.



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Love that pic Mike.  When you take the proper photo (and you probably know this, lol, but just in case), try and increase your depth of field slightly so that the front rocks are in focus too, but the back ones are out of focus.  That would make an amazing shot IMO



Good suggestion. These are all just from holding the camera and quickly snapping. Will do a proper tripod effort and try to get some decent quality shots at some point when it's a bit more grown in.   

Think right time to pop out to get a couple of dwarf gouramis, some more tetras and maybe another small shoaling fish that swims a bit higher up.   Suggestions?


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: One week*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Here's the first week update. Small hardscape changes, some crypts in there (not sure about positioning - suggestions?), and some HC, which seems not to be melting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Higher res image here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love that pic Mike.  When you take the proper photo (and you probably know this, lol, but just in case), try and increase your depth of field slightly so that the front rocks are in focus too, but the back ones are out of focus.  That would make an amazing shot IMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good suggestion. These are all just from holding the camera and quickly snapping. Will do a proper tripod effort and try to get some decent quality shots at some point when it's a bit more grown in.
> 
> Think right time to pop out to get a couple of dwarf gouramis, some more tetras and maybe another small shoaling fish that swims a bit higher up.   Suggestions?
Click to expand...


harlequins ?


----------



## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

looks prehistoric. but in a good way-very bold.


----------



## greenink

*New fish*

All housed and happy. Here's a few moving in shots.





Love this neon gurami. Shows up brilliantly in photos   





















And the full tank. Four new kinds of fish... but what are they?


----------



## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

oh  boy.  that  gourami  has  a  face  on  him!!


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*





^^^that is a quality shot Mike!!


----------



## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

is that the moler  clay  substrate?  if  so,  how  do  you  like  it?


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Seems to be going well - holding HC and glosso, sticking to its steep banking and no dust. Would only get the finer granules if was ordering again.


----------



## somethingfishy

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

love this journal .. haha its good to have big dreams but i have always wanted a custom built book shelved wall, but now i want a fish tank in it  really like your pipes too you can come  to work with me anytime to install some conduit. great thread will keep watching with interest .


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> great thread will keep watching with interest



Thanks! Trying to put as much practical detail in as possible as I found this helpful in others...  :idea: 

Here's the update. Small changes to hardscape (as per suggestions on this thread). Also replaced about half the bioballs in the aquamedic reactor with torn up shower puffs, and is diffusing CO2 a bit better - i.e. lower bubble rate - and a lot more quietly.





Two weeks ago was:





Stems have been cut and replanted, as didn't have enough. Crypts and other things in too. Has taken me a while to get the CO2 right, and am using 10hrs of 2*39w T5s - so half my possible lighting. Glosso starting to take off. HC not looking great as CO2 wasn't spot on.

Comments helpful. Bits of substrate have got all over the sand - mainly Amano shrimp. What's the best way of getting them out?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Better quality photo now Paulo's changed the settings... The amount of CO2 i have to inject is ludicrous! Still haven't got it right.


----------



## Ady34

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> The amount of CO2 i have to inject is ludicrous! Still haven't got it right.



Ditto, im really struggling with mine and im also adding ludicrous amounts. Trying to optimise is a fine balance between success and fish death. Ive been slowly increasing and have lost an otto and a cardinal tetra tonight, gutted and guilty.     I dont know how people get the one hour before lights on and off one hour before lights off generalisation. To keep a stable c02 ie not increasing into the yellow throughout the day and killing fish, ive got mine set to come on currently 3hrs pre lights to try and get lime green for lights on, and now off 3hrs before lights off (was 2.5 hrs before lights off but reducing c02 time period to reduce toxicity) It must all be tank specific ie c02 diffusion vs uptake vs gas off rate   Thinking of switching to inline to see if that helps.
Anyway sorry for ranting on your journal,
the tank is looking great and starting to fill in. Hope you get your c02 sorted.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Does Paulo want to change my settings too 

Tank is looking good!


----------



## darren636

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

looking really ancient. Like a scene from a harryhausen  film.  love  it.  all  it  needs  is  a big  dinosaur  grapple.


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> looking really ancient. Like a scene from a harryhausen  film.  love  it.  all  it  needs  is  a big  dinosaur  grapple.



Hear hear! This is a great layout - very individual. And I love it!


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Better quality photo now Paulo's changed the settings...


The settings didn't affect photo quality, just the way you can zoom in and out of the photo  but the shrinking of the image before did make them look a little blurred so I guess it did help with the thumbnails to some extent. 

New layout is looking great, looking forward to seeing the plants filled in, to see how the rocks stand out then.


----------



## faizal

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

This is coming along nicely Mike. It's gonna look awesome once it's fully filled in.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> The settings didn't affect photo quality, just the way you can zoom in and out of the photo



Yup before I only uploaded photos that were 540 px wide - now will do the odd 1800px or so for people with bigger screens. 



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> New layout is looking great, looking forward to seeing the plants filled in, to see how the rocks stand out then.



Thanks - am pretty pleased with it. Just need to keep tweaking and be patient...


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> to try and get lime green for lights on



Don't think it needs to be lime at lights on. The drop checker is always an hour or two behind (would be useful if anyone has done proper science behind this to get a more precise time lag by measuring water ph and comparing to drop checker but haven't seen it anywhere), so lime green an hour after lights on is fine... So think you can start CO2 later. 

I much prefer inline - both for look and distribution.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> to try and get lime green for lights on



Don't think it needs to be lime at lights on. The drop checker is always an hour or two behind (would be useful if anyone has done proper science behind this to get a more precise time lag by measuring water ph and comparing to drop checker but haven't seen it anywhere), so lime green an hour after lights on is fine... So think you can start CO2 later. 

I much prefer inline - both for look and distribution.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Ady34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to try and get lime green for lights on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think it needs to be lime at lights on. The drop checker is always an hour or two behind (would be useful if anyone has done proper science behind this to get a more precise time lag by measuring water ph and comparing to drop checker but haven't seen it anywhere), so lime green an hour after lights on is fine... So think you can start CO2 later.
> 
> I much prefer inline - both for look and distribution.
Click to expand...


Is there a need to clean inline diffusers ? If so how ?  Cheers Mike.


----------



## John S

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Don't think it needs to be lime at lights on.......



I'm sure I've read on here that the desired state is lime green at lights on or you've missed the boat as you want maximum CO2 levels when the lights kick in - I think Clive posted this. 

I don't understand how people get to lime green at light on after only two hours of switching on the Co2 at much lower buble rates than mine? I need at least three hours and a bubble rate that seems very high compared to some (I'm using an UP inline on the outlket and into a spraybar). I've lowered the spraybar so have very little surface agitation but still can't achieve lime green at switch on :?  So I'm still tweaking.


----------



## greenink

*Inline Co2*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Is there a need to clean inline diffusers ? If so how ?  Cheers Mike.



Up aqua ones get limescale, so they need bleaching every now and then. Aquamedic 1000s are a bit more like a filter / regular pipes, so need cleaning every now and then in a pretty standard way. 

I run the Aquamedic on a separate loop with a pump and a hydor heater - this increases flow in a cheaper way than adding another filter - and preserves flow in the main filter. On this loop I've made the slits on the custom perspex intake really fine so almost no plant matter gets in, and made the intake go about 60% of the way down into the tank, so can easily use this loop (and pump) to drain the tank quickly for water changes. (It has a T-section with a tap that connects to a standard garden hose).


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Interesting take on the classic iwagumi. I really like it. I look forward to seeing it develop as the plants fill-in the picture.


----------



## Gill

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Very Interesting Scape, Reminds me of the Madagascan Shear Cliffs


----------



## greenink

*Update - CO2 still not sorted*

Tank now fully stocked: 20 zebra danios arrived over the weekend. They're swimming really high up which gives a nice balance to the tetras which are low, and the gourami which roam about. Now just needs a colony of cherry shrimp to back up the Amanos.






HC has pretty much melted. Have never been able to grow it! Still haven't got the CO2 right, so have a bit of BBA and some brown algae on the stem plants. It's nowhere near as healthy as my small tank was by the end. 

Trying to keep everything stable and only raise CO2:

- 2*36W for 3 hours, 4*36W for four hours (does this feel like very low light to people? reluctant to turn up since the HC melted under this much)
- 10ml easy carbo a day (2ml per 50l, double recommended dose)
- EI dosing
- 50% water change a week, using pump outlet. (Might change to doing some vacuuming of the substrate now it's stocked pretty heavily; getting this immaculately clean is what finally sorted the growth in my smaller tank).

Am liking the hardscape but growth is frustratingly slow, and am only slowly raising CO2 as don't want to kill everything. Have realised made the inlet pipes too long to clean easily which is a bit annoying! Will get some clear hose and then shorten them.


----------



## O'Neil

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

Very very nice tank


----------



## Calzone

*259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Tank now fully stocked: 20 zebra danios arrived over the weekend. They're swimming really high up which gives a nice balance to the tetras which are low, and the gourami which roam about. Now just needs a colony of cherry shrimp to back up the Amanos.



20 zebra danios?!?!!!  Wow!  That is going to be one seriously active tank.  I only have 3 left now, and they're nuts!


----------



## justjason88

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*



			
				Calzone said:
			
		

> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank now fully stocked: 20 zebra danios arrived over the weekend. They're swimming really high up which gives a nice balance to the tetras which are low, and the gourami which roam about. Now just needs a colony of cherry shrimp to back up the Amanos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 zebra danios?!?!!!  Wow!  That is going to be one seriously active tank.  I only have 3 left now, and they're nuts!
Click to expand...


definitely, i have 6 in with some harlequins and 3 golden honey gouramis and they can be a little overpowering by nicking all the food, very very active fish but lovely


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - planted up!*

And yet another great journal from you!

Awesome stuff. I love reading your threads.


----------



## greenink

*AM1000 issues*

Have been getting a bit frustrated. The AM 1000 dissolves CO2 with no mist, so keeps the tank clear, but can't get it right:

- With a shower scrunch the gas 'gathers' and doesn't dissolve fast enough or predictably enough. 
- With just bioballs it sloshes too loudly
- On a separate loop from the filter it gets clogged with dirt too fast
- Am getting uneven distribution across the tank (and am lothe to have a spray bar)

So have adjusted the set up (again). Now have a mix of bioballs and cut up washing up sponge in the AM 1000 and put it on the outlet of the Eheim 3 filter. Have also swapped round the inlets so each loop has the inlet and outlet on opposite sides of the tank.





Amazing how long simple changes like that take. And having connected it all back up just now, the AM 1000 is making a hideous amount of sloshing noise. If the AM 1000 continues to make this much noise will almost certainly put an UP Atomiser inline ahead of it as a way of diffusing the CO2 into the AM1000 - even though this sort of reduces the whole point of having one (could have just put the UP atomiser ahead of the filter and used that instead).

Has anyone used an AM1000 to their satisfaction - i.e. quiet, reliable, mist-less diffusion?


----------



## JohnC

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

I'm not sure if you have read my recent journal but i'm less then happy with my reactor (although it is a german unbranded not AM) for similar reasons. Mostly I think it is causing a larger then diffuser swing in CO2 when I turn it off and on due to the gas buildup in the chamber and the slower discharge. 

Mine does not slosh as such as I filled it tight with bioballs so they don't move around. It also came originally with a "scrunchy" inside, which I switched for bioballs. 

I'd considered the mist method into the reactor, logically it should allow quicker dissolving of the CO2 in the chamber and thereby lead to less buildup.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Hi Mike.  Have you tried it with nothing in at all ? This seemed to cancel out the sloshing noise in mine (though of course you still got water flow sound, although I think if I had mounted the support onto a piece of felt in the cabinet this might have reduced any transferred vibration noise also). I know there are a few people who told me they run theirs with nothing inside when I was asking about them a while back.  

TGM apparently put siporax in theirs.  This would reduce flow more without doubt, but if you have flow dealt with another way it ought not to matter (or if you subscribe to the theory that massive flow is not essential as long as you get good distribution the same applies).

The AM1000 will have nothing to do with distribution, though per se it can be said it will have an indirect effect on "speed of distribution".  You probably know this already.  I know you dont like spraybars.  Most people do not.  But they DO give great distribution in most tanks, mine included.  They are not the only solution though.  You could consider powerheads/korallias to aid in this area.

Hope this helps.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Not putting anything else in the tank so powerheads etc just aesthetically out. 

In the spirit of scientific rigour, the balance with the AM1000 seems to be:

1 getting enough media to dissolve CO2 fully 
2 reducing the sloshing noise 
3 not allowing the media to 'bump' (the bio balls were spinning at one point make a low rumbling noise) 
4 not reducing flow too much 
5 having fast enough dissolving of CO2 so there isn't a build up of gas in the pipe over the day, which then dissolves long after the CO2 is switched off
6 keeping it clean from tank gunk

So far I've tried

a) Original bio all media: sorts 1/5 but problems 2/3
b) Only shower scrunchies: sorts 1/2/3/4 but problems 5/6 ( algae grows quickly on it)
c) Both (a) and (b) on a separate loop driven by an external pump: improves 4 but worsens 6
d) inserting about four bio ball sized 'squares' of cut up washing up sponges in with the bio balls AND mounting in line with the filter, after the filter AND switching CO2 on 3 hours before lights go on and off: seems to sort 1/3/6 but 2/5 are borderline acceptable and 4 may be a genuine problem...

My hunches are that no media would not sort 1/2 and that more fine grained media would make 1/5 worse

Haven't tried the AM1000 with no media at all - but might do next. Suspect that an UP atomiser in advance of the AM would sort 2 and 5 in option (d) but then why not just put that inline into the filter - as then would also sort 4!

Having shelled out for the bloody thing quite keen to make it work. I know victor has used them with success - might ask him!


----------



## Westyggx

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

I use it without any media and it works well, although you do get the swishing noise but by the time I come home from the gym it's starting to calm down.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Do you get full dissolving and no gas bubble build up?


----------



## geaves

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Whilst I have no knowledge of the AM1000 I was reading a journal on a US forum and they were experiencing a similar problem, it was suggested by another member to use a 'hobby pump' whatever that is.

Geoff


----------



## Westyggx

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Do you get full dissolving and no gas bubble build up?



Don't think so what is it that I would be looking for, for a build up?


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

I get half the chamber being gas by the time it ends - which then slowly dissolves back in overnight, leading (I think) to huge co2 instability against lights

You've convinced me though... Will remove media tomorrow. And then can switch it back to the pump loop not the filter one and stop the flow drain on the filter.  

Fingers crossed.


----------



## JohnC

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

RE: putting a atomiser in line before your filter. I understand this is not done for a couple of reasons. I think the CO2 over time attacks the rubber seals on the filter reducing their life. Secondly you might end up with CO2 pockets inside the filter reducing it's performance and making it noisy.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				JohnC said:
			
		

> RE: putting a atomiser in line before your filter. I understand this is not done for a couple of reasons. I think the CO2 over time attacks the rubber seals on the filter reducing their life. Secondly you might end up with CO2 pockets inside the filter reducing it's performance and making it noisy.



Works fine for me in my smaller tank! There are lots of threads on here that say its basically fine, and I find gives v clear water, with no filter noise.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> I use it without any media and it works well, although you do get the swishing noise but by the time I come home from the gym it's starting to calm down.



Mike what do you think causes the swishing noise ?  Could it be that the reactor chamber is not completely full of water ? (In which case releasing the gas release tap until water spurts out would solve i) ? Or is it just the velocity of water running through the chamber ? (again could this be eradicated by vibration dampening behind the bracket or even something to surround the entire chamber to soundproof it ?).

I dont see the point of using an inline diffuser AND a reactor.  Seems to be duplicating the effort.  Very frustrating though.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Bubbles of gas as the water enters the reactor


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Bubbles of gas as the water enters the reactor



Elaborate?


----------



## Westyggx

*259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Bubbles of gas as the water enters the reactor



Basically once my co2 turns on my reactor makes a noise obviously from the co2 dissolving Into the water, once co2 is shut off it goes quite about an hour later ones all co2 is purged from the reactor.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bubbles of gas as the water enters the reactor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically once my co2 turns on my reactor makes a noise obviously from the co2 dissolving Into the water, once co2 is shut off it goes quite about an hour later ones all co2 is purged from the reactor.
Click to expand...


Really ?  thats pretty annoying, although its during the day so tolerable I guess.  I got the sloshing noise even before I added CO2    IT was the flow loss that broke the camels back for me though.


----------



## Westyggx

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Westyggx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mikeappleby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bubbles of gas as the water enters the reactor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically once my co2 turns on my reactor makes a noise obviously from the co2 dissolving Into the water, once co2 is shut off it goes quite about an hour later ones all co2 is purged from the reactor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really ?  thats pretty annoying, although its during the day so tolerable I guess.  I got the sloshing noise even before I added CO2    IT was the flow loss that broke the camels back for me though.
Click to expand...


Yeh its fine for me, although now you mention BBA i actually get BBA on my wood and plants which would suggest maybe the reactor is not doing a good enough job distributing the Co2..

Flow is fine for me as i have an 80x35x45 so it is perfect on full setting.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Have now removed all media from the AM1000 and put back on the loop with the external pump. Is noticeably noisier than with the media I had in before, and is giving out a fine mist, rather like an UP Atomiser. 

Can't be bothered to change it again so will live with this for a few days. 

Think the set-up I had earlier was better, to be honest - so am going to go with the UP Atomiser into the AM1000 - hoping that will give total dissolving CO2 on a loop with an external pump (keeping the filter free from anything blocking flow) and not getting the atomiser / diffuser clogged. So frustrating.

Did a pretty big reshape today too, moving various plants around, putting in some stems, trying to create more depth. Photos when the water's cleared.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Have now removed all media from the AM1000 and put back on the loop with the external pump. Is noticeably noisier than with the media I had in before, and is giving out a fine mist, rather like an UP Atomiser. Can't be bothered to change it again so will live with this for a few days.
> 
> Think the set-up I had earlier was better, to be honest - so may well end up ditching it altogether for an UP Atomiser into the filter. So frustrating.



I know what you mean.  Does the mist in the tank bother you Mike ?  If not I suggest considering having the atomiser on the outlet as mine used to burp like mad when I had it on the inlet.  It depends how much gas you are shoving through of course, and i didn't think I was adding that much


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Hate the mist


----------



## greenink

*Photo update*

Quick photo update:






Have moved the tallest stone on the left forwards a bit, and the others back to create some room behind, and planted rotala stems in the space. Hoping this will give some more depth to the scape.

Seriously need to scrub those rocks. They've completely changed colour... Some of it is the underexposed photo but blimey.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Hate the mist



Fair call.  You don't subscribe to the "CO2 bubbles get absorbed by the plant leaves better than totally dissolve CO2" theory then ?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

CO2 is now stable and BBA etc is starting to go down, and HC is on the way to recovery. The AM1000 with no media is giving ok diffusion - creating mist that looks very like an UP atomiser in fact - but with far too much noise of the water splashing about in the bubbles. So far would say that just an UP atomiser alone would be more sensible (and cheaper), and that an UP atomiser on the filter inlet hose gives the best water clarity of all with great diffusion (based on my small tank).

But in the spirit of endless tinkering  , have ordered a 16/22 UP atomiser from HK, which has arrived:





Am going to pop that inline before the AM1000 (with no media) as the way of injecting CO2 into it, and close off the CO2 intake of the AM1000, in the hope that this gives the best of all worlds - crystal clear water with good diffusion, in a separate loop from the filter, driven by an external pump.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

Mike, over what timescale would you say you have noticed a turnaround ?  My plants seem to be suffering CO2 related issues (some leaves with holes, some with damaged / disintegrating edges and that horrid "dirty" algae that I am told is associated with new tanks (even though mine has been running for 3 months now so could be considered "middle aged" in relation to some tanks on here which seem to hit the ground running  ).  And I am hoping that by upping CO2, I may see improvements but dont know what timescale to expect it.  I will be putting up a post about this in the CO2 section later, so feel free to reply on there rather than here as I dont want to hijack your topic.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Mike, over what timescale would you say you have noticed a turnaround ?



A week or two, but it's subtle. For example, this HC was pretty much all dark green and on the way to dead ten days ago. (Sorry for poor photo, is a crop from a FTS)





And now it's like this:





...so not in any way totally fixed but definitely on the way to recovery. There were no light green shoots at all ten days ago after a prolonged melt.

It's doing even better in the smaller tank (where I transplanted some to test recovery with higher CO2 levels I have in there - although it has fresher molar clay substrate that hasn't had chance to absorb many ferts from EI dosing, which suggests it's CO2 rather than ferts).





The things I've changed in the big tank are: 

1. upping (and getting stable) the CO2
2. moving the CO2 earlier so it's absolutely lime green the second lights go on
3. doing a bit more rigorous substrate vacuuming - there was quite a lot of crud - perhaps my substrate bacteria haven't colonised properly yet


----------



## O'Neil

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*

I had the same problem with HC, I upped the CO2  a little and it started to bounce back a bit, then I added a better pump and got a spurt of new growth, I think and correct me if I'm wrong but CO2 and circulation seem to be key with this plant.


----------



## greenink

*How pumps work - help please!*

Need help on pumps - any engineers out there? My set up is this:

Intake > AM1000 > Eheim 3000 pump > Hydor > Outlet

I thought it made no difference where the pump was in a loop, as I'd assumed the pressure was the same all the way through (or something!)

I think it might turn out it does make a difference: the flow prior to the pump is (I understand) 'powered' by atmospheric pressure, equivalent to 14.7 PSI or a water column of 34 feet. The pump creates a vacuum just before the impeller blade, and atmospheric pressure pushes the water through - so it essentially works by suction. That's why it's literally impossible to suck water up more than 34 feet. 

The flow after the pump is (additionally) powered by the pump motor, which is I have now calculated 4.33 PSI, based on it's ability to deliver a pump head of 3m/10ft). 

So where should the AM1000 go if I want the greatest flow through the whole system? After or before the pump? Does it actually matter?

Can anyone with an engineering background help explain this? How does the pump work, is the pressure before and after it the same, and does it make a difference to flow whether an AM1000 is before or after it?


----------



## hinch

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!*

as far as i understand it your input pressure will be the same as the output pressure just the input will have an overpressure from atmos > pumped due to the pump not being able to clear out water fast enough


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!*

So that would mean AM1000 better pre pump than post?


----------



## O'Neil

*Re: How pumps work - help please!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Need help on pumps - any engineers out there? My set up is this:
> 
> Intake > AM1000 > Eheim 3000 pump > Hydor > Outlet
> 
> I thought it made no difference where the pump was in a loop, as I'd assumed the pressure was the same all the way through (or something!)
> 
> I think it might turn out it does make a difference: the flow prior to the pump is (I understand) 'powered' by atmospheric pressure, equivalent to 14.7 PSI or a water column of 34 feet. The pump creates a vacuum just before the impeller blade, and atmospheric pressure pushes the water through - so it essentially works by suction. That's why it's literally impossible to suck water up more than 34 feet.
> 
> The flow after the pump is (additionally) powered by the pump motor, which is I have now calculated 4.33 PSI, based on it's ability to deliver a pump head of 3m/10ft).
> 
> So where should the AM1000 go if I want the greatest flow through the whole system? After or before the pump? Does it actually matter?
> 
> Can anyone with an engineering background help explain this? How does the pump work, is the pressure before and after it the same, and does it make a difference to flow whether an AM1000 is before or after it?



A very interesting question and while I may not be able to help you directly I think I know someone who can, I'll ask my boss he's an engineer and a good one, I'll try and get an answer for this as soon as I can for you.


----------



## hinch

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!*

actually i should ask my old man he's a pump and turbine engineer 



> So that would mean AM1000 better pre pump than post?



due to the fact reactors reduce flow rate I would assume the best place to put it would be pre-pump where there's an overpressure ie: greater potential flow rate than actual due to the pump being the limiting factor.

I'll drop me dad an email tomorrow about it


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - pump engineer advice needed!*

Thanks!


----------



## greenink

*algae bashing*

So here's how the tank looks today:






It's a lot more heavily planted now with stauro in the foreground, so am optimistic about plant mass.





But there are some definite algae issues - on the rocks...





...and on various plants:





So needs a bit of a step up:

- Have done a thorough scrub of rocks to get diatoms off, and a couple of big water changes, with hands properly in the tank roughing up the plants and vacuuming the substrate - hope that will sort the brown diatoms
- Dosing 10ml easycarbo every two days (2ml per 50l) - hope that will give the BBA the treatment
- Halving the light, from 4 T5 tubes to 2 T5s - hope that will also sort the diatoms, but worried about HC impact
- Removed as many algae infected leaves as I can

Hoping it sorts the algae out! Anything else I need to do? Considering a blackout to be honest to get rid of all that BBA.


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

scape is looking good Mike, i would dose the carbo daily though...it's half life only tend to be around 12 hours, dosing every day will keep it consistent.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Algae looking a lot better after even two days. Diatoms almost all gone, BBA in retreat. I love ukaps. Thanks all!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Algae looking a lot better after even two days. Diatoms almost all gone, BBA in retreat. I love ukaps. Thanks all!



Seriously ? Its disappearing THAT fast  ?    O.M.G.


----------



## O'Neil

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Showed my boss this thread and he said before the pump would be the best, He did go on to give an explanation but it may as well have been written in transformers symbols.
Thought I'd pass the key part of his speach on tho.
I think it has something to do with the impeller not having to push water through another object.
Not as detailed and concise as I was hoping to provide but I hope this information helps.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Thanks - really helpful. Will take him at his word!


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Have been playing about with the flow, after reading ceg's advice on another thread on easerthegeezer's tank:



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> What you most likely have done is to create a collision of flow with one filters energy cancelling or interfering with the other. The powerhead also cancels or possibly reverses the downward movement of the water column.
> 
> I don't know why everyone thinks that they can play ping-pong with water. It can never work unless by some miracle the flow energies line up. To optimize distribution in the tank. All flow outlets must be on the same wall, pointing straight ahead in the same direction. The distance between each outlet should be equidistant across the mounting wall. In this way, all flow energies line up and combine to be additive. Any other arrangement results in loss of flow efficiency because fllows will be headed in opposite directions resulting in stagnation. Think about the engine arrangement on a 747. Which way are all engines pointing? What would happen if one were pointed diagonally up and to the left, another down and to the left and the other two diagonally up and down to the right? Which arrangement maximizes the output energy of the jet outflow?
> 
> It doesn't matter how much flow you have if you waste it.


 
Think I'm doing something similar in this tank, so am going to copy the solution easerthegeezer arrived at:



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Now have both lily pipes coming from either side of the back with the powerhead in the middle. Anyhow, the flow was looking to be an immediate improvement but wasnt until i fed the fish that i really appreciated how well it worked. I figured id leave the filters on and feed brine shrimp and see where they go. Squirted it in the middle of the tank and it all went to the front glass, through the annoying glosso and reached right to the back of the tank. My doubts about the filter output not being enough to go the distance are put to rest.
> 
> Took a very quick pic to show setup.


 
So have done exactly the same with this layout. Can't tell yet what the impact is on the flow - guess will be clear when I feed the fish in the morning. Photos coming soon.

Algae on plants is sorted. But on the rocks it keeps coming back. In retrospect, think my tank hardscape is just asking for it - so much rock space front and back. Should have been much more radical with banking the substrate really high and 'embedding' the rocks more firmly in it, more like the first scape in this video from Amano.




Really shows how high you can get with banking substrate - though imagine his planting regime (cover every inch with new plants the second you plant it up) helps a lot on reducing slippage - and not something I can quite afford


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Here's the photo of the setup - all looking a bit healthier now.





Have ordered in some ramshorn snails too - will breed them up in this tank on all the BBA and hopefully have enough to feed South American Puffers in the other tank by the time it's ready for them... 

...do they really not eat plants? Amazing if so. Can't believe haven't heard of them before.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Quick update. Flow still not 100% perfect, so decided to replace the DIY lilly pipes with more straightforward outlets. Am getting quite quick at acrylic now, so only took about 20 mins. Here's the flow from what I had (excuse the algae - hadn't cleaned for a while  :silent:





Out come the tools





Here's the new outlet next to the DIY lilly





And here's the flow improved





Seems a bit better to me. I raise them up at night like this to break up any surface film and oxygenate.

Have also switched over from EasyCarbo to Seachem Excel as the tank isn't totally clear of algae, even with the lower lights and the Ramshorns in. First day today, so will be interesting to see if there's a different result. Various people on this forum seem to think Excel is better.

And here's how it's looking





Quite a bit of growth compared to two weeks ago. Funny how you don't notice it until you compare photos.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Starting to get really nice Mike. whats the stem at the back mate?


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

This one? Quick iPhone photo:





Is myriophyllum. Amazing elegant leaves looks great close up and drifting around - very like Cosmos in a garden. 

There are better photos in my other journal. Grows like a rocket.


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Better photos













Have just noticed loads of planaria (worms) in the tank.  Yuk. Suspected might be overfeeding, so will sort that out and feed quite a lot less.


----------



## greenink

*Shrimp*

Popped to the LFS today and came back with 24 Amano shrimp , so think I now have about 34 in the tank...  Taking a leaf out of Mark Evans' and Takashi Amano's books on that one.

Plus got some Eustralis stellata, which I've always liked





and a plant labelled Rotala bossi, which doesn't seem to exist even on the internet, so have no idea what it is. Can anyone identify this for me? Rather like it.





Pulled out the dark myriophyllum which has been a bit of a design failure on the right hand side (is just depressing), trimmed the stauro and scrubbed the rocks. General all round maintenance. Is looking a lot better I think. Getting there:





Thought worth showing how high the T5s are. Two tubes on normally, four for the photo.


----------



## Christor

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*

Very nice looking setup you have there mike! It will definitely be looking fantastic when grown in, just curious but are you going to keep the "peak" look or let the plants grow further up round them? maybe adding a few stems to the back

(you have said earlier but I just took a glance through the photos ^^ )


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - algae bashing*



			
				Christor said:
			
		

> are you going to keep the "peak" look or let the plants grow further up round them? maybe adding a few stems to the back



Yup that's the plan. There are a load in there, but they're growing slowly. Think they don't get much light.

Here are the amanos at work - six in this section alone





And the stellata already looking nice


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - CO2 diffusion issues*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> am going to go with the UP Atomiser into the AM1000 - hoping that will give total dissolving CO2 on a loop with an external pump (keeping the filter free from anything blocking flow) and not getting the atomiser / diffuser clogged. So frustrating.



Seems this set up (eventually) worked a treat. The UP atomiser didn't have enough pressure to begin with: realised the bubble counter that screws straight into the regulator was leaking from the screw. Bit of vaseline in that sorted it. And now have very very fine mist (smaller than standard UP atomiser) and no noise in the AM1000. Sorted.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

Here's a video, using an old camera. Really need to get a decent one!


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

Nice video, camera notwithstanding   . The busyness of the fish is a good counterpoint to the solidity of the hardscape, and the plants soften the transition between the two. I could watch for ages....


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Popped to the LFS today and came back with 24 Amano shrimp , so think I now have about 34 in the tank...  Taking a leaf out of Mark Evans' and Takashi Amano's books on that one.



Have to say, this seems to have made a really noticeable difference. No new algae growing anywhere, and plants with a minor brown tinge have cleaned up a lot. Definitely looks healthier. Just need to scrub off the last remaining bits of BBA from the rocks and it will be Amano/Evans-esque.

Feels like am getting there with this tank. Only problem is I'm running out of things to tinker with


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

Well you've done one in a wall and one in a bookcase. I think a coffee table or a bed next. Maybe a thin line tank that doubles as patio doors?

That would keep you tinkering!

On a more serious note; amanos are pretty handy at clean up. I've heard people say they don't do much but mine really seem to keep on top of things.


----------



## greenink

*Moss?*

Any ideas on what this is? Found it growing in a stream. Not sure if it's aquatic - though was underwater - as the stream might be swollen due to the recent rain.

Have planted some almost emersed.










You've gotta love that Gourami... And some at the very bottom of the tank with a shrimp for scale.





Is really rather lovely. Last time I tried this with something from a stream though it just died. But now I can actually grow plants a bit! Seems to be pearling away.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

Good luck with that.  How on earth did you see it in the first place ? I love that you would bring some home and try it in your tank, so I really hope it takes


----------



## greenink

*Full tank shot*

Here's the update. Have given up on the sand, just isn't going to work - but a lesson for next time when hardscaping: make the transition totally flat! 

So have removed some of the 'banking' stones and letting the stauro flow a bit more naturally. Think will improve a lot. May get some HC for the central river bed to make this fill in quicker.





Generally pretty pleased - getting there.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

Bit bored with the growth rate.

So am taking the radical step of dramatic increase in CO2 injection rate - as think having more surface movement now allows this - (still on from 2 to 9.30pm) and upping the lighting to 4 * T5 from 2 * T5 tubes (still on from 4 to 11.30).

Fingers crossed!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new video*

What are you doing for ferts again ?  I found that swapping from TPN+ to EI has had a visible impact in only 3 days.


----------



## greenink

*CO2 and surface flow*

EI dosing.

Interesting - now have a drop checker that's yellower than I've ever had it, and no gasping at all from the fish. Really think the Tom Barr technique of surface agitation plus high CO2 might have something potent to it!



			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> Think about it like this, the O2 and current rise the CO2 ceiling much higher and improved fish health and cycling of all waste MUCH faster and better.
> 
> Say you can only add 30 ppm without gassing the fish.........with good filtration, current etc, you add 1-2ppm more O2 and(or 15-30% more) and you can double the CO2 to 60ppm without issues.
> 
> It's a large jump.
> 
> But it's not just 100% about adding more CO2.
> That is the root issue for algae and other plant issues, but there is much more to it than merely turnign a knob for Co2. :idea:


----------



## greenink

*New camera*

Have been away quite a bit recently, so tank has suffered - no water changes or dosing, and too much feeding from the person looking after our house. Algae making a bit of a resurgence.

But on the plus side, have a new camera  . Makes a big difference - upgrade from a Rebel TX. Photos are much better. Here's a quick first attempt straight after a trim and water change tonight... Click on it for a bigger version.





Canon EOS 600D, with Canon EF 50mm lens, f/3.5, 1/80, ISO 400, shot in RAW.

Very limited post-processing on this (mainly a tiny bit of sharpening). Any photo pointers greatly appreciated. Think I need the shutter a bit faster to get sharper danios... And could do all the usual hairdryer, etc, getting fish shoaling business at some point, but want the plants in a better state first.

Really looking forward to a video with this camera. Took some great ones on holiday - but not for posting here!


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - new camera (600D)*

Algae in retreat again (flourish excel, scrubbing, water changes, loads of shrimp). 

Did a proper substrate clean with a gravel vac last week - have been doing once every month or so. Is amazing how much crud comes up. Need to do a bit more regularly but is v time consuming compared to my semi-automated water changes, and 'wafting' doesn't seem to work for me. Remember that in my little tank this is what got it finally going really healthily. 

Am bored with slow growth in general so finally switched on the second set of T5s last week (and raised the lights by a couple of inches). Seems fine so will lower them by an inch every week now until I get a good balance. 

Am slightly itching to do a big-ish rescape. The vertical small rocks are just BBA zones waiting to happen. Want much more mountainous substrate. I guess I keep on learning!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - new camera (600D)*

Will you need to up the CO2 and ferts accordingly if you have doubled the lighting ?


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - new camera (600D)*

Ferts are ei, so fine. CO2 not sure am monitoring carefully.

Think that raising lights even a bit does seriously alter PAR as it drops off in a non linear way with distance, if that makes sense. So am probably a long way from doubling lighting.


----------



## greenink

*Rescape thoughts*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Am slightly itching to do a big-ish rescape. The vertical small rocks are just BBA zones waiting to happen. Want much more mountainous substrate. I guess I keep on learning!



Have done a bit of thinking about this. Here's what I started with in January:





and here's the current layout...





What I've realised:

1. The sand 'river' was just too much hassle for me, and was too straight for a tank this thin front to back. So am scrapping that and moving towards a more standard triangular shape, but using plant 'channel's that run more diagonally to give the illusion of depth.

2. The tank is quite narrow, and even with substrate supports, I got a lot of flattening quite quickly. But because it's narrow, it needs a lot of slope to get the illusion of depth. So am going to use hardscape more intelligently to 'shore up' the slopes, and go for much more radical banking of substrate than I did before. That means using bigger pieces of hardscape too, and not worrying so much about them standing out - they'll get swamped by plants anyway.

3. The major BBA problems have been on the vertical rocks. I suspect these also seriously hinder flow. So going for something simpler that feels more natural, and doesn't impede flows as much. The vertical rocks didn't give the illusion of perspective in the way I'd hoped. So going for more straightforward diagonals on hardscape too.

4. I started out with too many different types of plants. Am going to stick to what I have growing in the tank for now.

5. The frosted background looks better than I'd expected. Want more of a contrast between an open swimming area and a planted bit.

6. The stem plans near the tall rocks (or behind) never really got going. Suspect there's a flow issue, so will sort that out.

7. Think the height of the rocks (nearly to the top of the tank) made it look smaller than it is.

So here's a quick sketch of what I'm thinking.





And the slightly more professional version. Managed to find some purple schist stone pictures, and used the template from earlier in this journal - only took about 20 mins. File is 1.8mb if it's a bit slow to load - sorry!





Will think about it for a while, maybe remove the BBA small rocks now, and wait for a couple more trims of stauro before I rescape. What do you think?


----------



## greenink

*Rescape...*

No time like the present. Had a few hours off and got a bit carried away. Pretty sure I seriously upset the fish...









Not totally perfect but I think a big improvement. Here's a taster - proper shot coming when the dust clears.





More later!


----------



## tim

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

who said patince is a virtue    only way is to keep moving forward mike cracking journal number 2


----------



## greenink

*here it is*

So here's the layout:





And here's what I'm hoping it will turn into:





So lots of stems behind the big rock (currently growing some extra on the front right to speed things up), HC in the front right, stauro in layers forming a diagonal swoop. 

Rockwork isn't quite right, and think the big rock is a bit too big, but have planted this one with a bit more vision of how plants will affect and change the scape than I've been able to do so far.

Comments? Have I gone mad?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

looking good mike, the big rock makes me nervous though.  Im sure its stable but....


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> the big rock makes me nervous though.  Im sure its stable but....



have tested it lots! there's a few rocks lodging it in place you can't really see. If amano can do it...



looking at the photo, is really interesting how much flatter my tank looks than in real life. really should angle the rocks (like the big one on the far right of my tank, which is actually at quite an extreme pitch) much less subtly.

or just scape through live-view on a camera.!

Because am bored with slow growth, I've upped the lighting and CO2 times:

Lights were on at 4 and off at 11 – 7 hr photoperiod, moved to on at 2.30 off at 11 – 8.5 hr photoperiod

C02 was on at 2pm and off at 9.30 – 7.5 hours, moved to on at 12 and off at 9.30 – 9.5 hrs


----------



## greenink

*living waters trip*

Day off so popped to living waters in Croydon, which I've never been to before. Really nice shop, quite a few planted tanks (including some algae tanks, which were surprisingly nice.) Great prices too, so picked up some HC pots that had lots of growth and long roots, some rotala roundifolia and blyxa japonica (75p each!) to replace the crypts which just look totally wrong now.






(Plus four lovely little dwarf honey Gouramis).

Good chat with the owner. He said this rotala problem, which I've still got a bit is either an infection or a boron deficiency. So am going to up the traces a lot. Here are some better photos of the problem - basically, old leaves have black discolouration:





New leaves are fine for a bit...





..but then get the same discolouration. Anyone got any ideas? Don't think it can be CO2 as have everything else growing fine (limnophila aromatic, etc). And it's not algae on the leaves.

 :? 

Am a bit concerned in general that the molar clay substrate is too inert. (If I was starting again I'd put a layer of slow release miracle gro / osmocote under it). So the other thing I did today was make some DIY root tabs from miracle gro, by putting a little bit in a frozen fish food tray with a bit of water...





Freezing it...





And then breaking them up... easy to pop under the substrate where needed.





Will release a bit of ammonia, but hopefully not too much, and it will be far enough down for the bacteria to deal with it.

Photos of the tank when it's dark enough outside, and I'm not doing something else   Have made a few alterations and it's much improved.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

LW is great isnt it !?  Will you be joining us on the UKAPS group trip there ?  I have not checked the thread today.  It would be nice to put a name to a face   Blyxa at 75p !  How did I miss that on Saturday ! LOL.  I got some Rotala too and had a similar conversation about upping the frequency of trace addition.  (Which reminds me I must do todays dose ! DUH).

Did you know you can buy the pill capsules to put that miracle grow in ?


----------



## greenink

*proper photos*

So have finally got the tripod out and done some proper shots with the new Canon 600D. Here's a detail.





Here's how it was looking a week ago





And here's how it's looking now - the white balance is much better here - this is how it actually looks! (Ok, so this is a bit darker than in the flesh, but there you go . If Mark Evans is allowed big black patches in his FTS then so am I.)





Some tweaks to hardscape: the rock in the middle, most obviously, and have angled the one on the right.

Plant wise, have replaced the crypts with blyxa round the base of the big rock, though these were only tiny and need a lot of growth. More HC has come in, and is weighted on to the rocks with metal plant weights through the rock wool (worth a try). There's Christmas moss on the rocks, and then a bit more rotala - getting there... Some more blyxa and rotala arriving in the post, then just to let it grow!

Have taken some videos too - just need to edit them properly. Love the new camera!


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

The moss (detail)


----------



## greenink

*Rocks*

Just been in Devon for a while. Couldn't help noticing the beach I was on had pretty amazing rocks. (Am clearly going slightly mad!)


----------



## greenink

*Ready made*

And while, I'm at it, there were also some pretty 'ready made' scapes.

























This one





really reminded me of Amano's scape about 20 seconds into this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2OKl4Zk ... page#t=16s

...maybe he's been in devon too


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

Now that's what I call inspiration!

Great photos Mike!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*

Awesome stuff Mike.  How much of that rock did you bring home with you ?  8)


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - rescape...*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Awesome stuff Mike.  How much of that rock did you bring home with you ?  8)



None! But I am seriously tempted to go back in a year or two (when I get utterly bored of the purple schist stone I've got now). Was mountains of it everywhere. Love those white-veined rocks.

Here's the tank after a week away.





As per usual, grabbed some random plant samples from streams to see if they grow. Am determined to discover something new.

This is I think Sea Blite





A marsh plant that I'm sure will die as it needs salt. But we'll see.

This I don't know what it is, but was growing submerged sometimes in streams. Though with the weather we've had, maybe it's not usually a stream. Anyone know what it is?


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

I have no idea what the second pic is but if it grows can I have some cuttings please?  Its a lovely structural plant.

PS did you see my question to you on someone elses thread about your external pump setup ?


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

Was that my thread? I wanted to know more about it too! Sounds interesting.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

*259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

The plant in the last photo sure looks to be some relation to ammania sp. 'Bonsai' or Bacopa Caroliniana don't you think?


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

The Devon pics looked great! What beach was it?  I've never really considered nabbing plants from the countryside - wouldn't they need temperate conditions to thrive? I like the idea, though!


----------



## james3200

*Re: CO2 and surface flow*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> EI dosing.
> 
> Interesting - now have a drop checker that's yellower than I've ever had it, and no gasping at all from the fish. Really think the Tom Barr technique of surface agitation plus high CO2 might have something potent to it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> plantbrain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it like this, the O2 and current rise the CO2 ceiling much higher and improved fish health and cycling of all waste MUCH faster and better.
> 
> Say you can only add 30 ppm without gassing the fish.........with good filtration, current etc, you add 1-2ppm more O2 and(or 15-30% more) and you can double the CO2 to 60ppm without issues.
> 
> It's a large jump.
> 
> But it's not just 100% about adding more CO2.
> That is the root issue for algae and other plant issues, but there is much more to it than merely turnign a knob for Co2. :idea:
Click to expand...


Hi there, can you direct me to the above discussion? Many thanks, nice tank, will you cover the whole large rock in moss, some more around the base might look good


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Was that my thread? I wanted to know more about it too! Sounds interesting.



Yes it was Rob


----------



## faizal

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> The plant in the last photo sure looks to be some relation to ammania sp. 'Bonsai' or Bacopa Caroliniana don't you think?



Yeah,...  I was thinking the same thing. And Mike,...the tank is really taking shape now especially with the mosses in their place.If you don't mind me saying (the fact is I just couldn't help myself after seeing your latest pics as these were the first train of thoughts that came into mind) ,....I think if you plant large rosette plant like an echinodorus bleheri at the rear left corner there,..it would really look kinda cool. The mosses are rendering your entire scaping style a very mystifying look now.

And maybe raise the substrate at the rear right to create a nice little hillock effect rear to the other rock at the right midground.

You can tell me to shut up anytime.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I have no idea what the second pic is but if it grows can I have some cuttings please?  Its a lovely structural plant.
> 
> Sure – though my track record is appalling on ‘finds’!  But if you don’t succeed…
> 
> PS did you see my question to you on someone elses thread about your external pump setup ?









			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Was that my thread? I wanted to know more about it too! Sounds interesting.



Eheim 3000 compact pump. Seems to work well. There’s no clogging at all.



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> The plant in the last photo sure looks to be some relation to ammania sp. 'Bonsai' or Bacopa Caroliniana don't you think?



Fingers crossed – would be great if it works!



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> The Devon pics looked great! What beach was it?  I've never really considered nabbing plants from the countryside - wouldn't they need temperate conditions to thrive? I like the idea, though!



No idea. Not telling which beach until I’ve won some competitions with stones from it!



james3200]Hi there said:


> the tanks really taking shape now especially with the mosses.



Thanks – am pretty pleased with it. The rear left has pogostemon stellata (recovering but now looking quite healthy) and limnophila aromatica, so those should bush out nicely with bigger leaves. Totally agree about the substrate on the right. Seems to have settled down lower than I'd thought. Just want to see if the stauro growing up might compensate for that.


----------



## greenink

*AM1000 sorted!!!!*

Have finally sorted out the AM1000. See earlier in this thread for trials and tribulations. Have been using an UP atomiser for a while, but find the CO2 rate does change as the bottle loses pressure, so you need to keep adjusting the regulator. Is also hard to see how much you're using. What I like about the AM1000 is the bubbles are large out of the tube, so you can easily keep a very regular track, and it doesn't rely on pressure.

After trying lots of combinations (no media, media it comes with, shower scrunchies) have found that pebbles - yup, pebbles - are actually perfect. They slow down the gas diffusing up perfectly, are heavy enough not to rattle or jog, so are completely silent, and even look cool.





So now have perfect diffusion, crystal clear water, no noise, and no reductions in flow to my filter, as is on the other loop with just a pump driving it. Sorted!


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

Glad you got it sorted Mike.  Now I want my AM1000 back (having sold it a while back due to loss of flow  ) Lol.  

So that Eheim pump... is it as quiet as all other Eheim stuff ?  Any vibration issues ?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

really very quiet indeed.


----------



## greenink

*video*

Finally got round to making a quick video with the Canon. You've got to love that Myriophyllum - really shows up how it actually looks on video, photos just don't do it justice.



CO2 had been on for a quite a few hours so the fish are a bit static, and the reflections are a bit noticeable. The shots with bubbles in the water are with an UP atomiser, the rest are since I sorted the AM1000.


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*

Static ? Lol, some of them look almost comatose     Have you considered increasing oxygen in order to support the higher CO2 level and make it more comfortable for the fish ?  Tom Barr is a big advocate of this and since using one filter return above the water line and the CO2 supply filter feeding below the water line I have noticed my fish are a lot happier


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

I've been reading up on this recently too. What about a pump and air stone with a timer to run when the light are off?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Was maybe a bit higher than usual today due to the switch to the AM1000 and trying to get it spot on. In general, I have one outlet just about on the surface. Otherwise not bothered - red head tetras still coloured up fine, and that's my barometer!


----------



## Ady34

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> red head tetras still coloured up fine, and that's my barometer!


Hi Mike,
i know rummy noses are used to judge water quality eg nitrites, but in my experience they are more tolerant of c02 than many other species so maybe not the best barometer. Id use any fish thats showing distress as the barometer.
Swapping c02 method is always tricky and does take some dialing in as i know your already aware and im sure youll get it spot on again   
Tank is coming along nicely agin after the rescape and the moss on the rocks in particular looks very healthy. 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography*



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> Whitey89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The plant in the last photo sure looks to be some relation to ammania sp. 'Bonsai' or Bacopa Caroliniana don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,...  I was thinking the same thing
Click to expand...


It seems to be growing...!   But much more elongated between leaves than this:






Will update in a week or so if it hasn't died yet. The glasswort is a goner which is why I have some hope about this


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Looks like it could be something in the Crassulacea family? Maybe??


----------



## dw1305

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Hi all,


> This I don't know what it is, but was growing submerged sometimes in streams. Though with the weather we've had, maybe it's not usually a stream. Anyone know what it is?.....Looks like it could be something in the Crassacea family? Maybe??


It does look like a succulent, assuming it was somewhere salty? it looks like Sea Milkwort, (_Glaux maritima_, Primulaceae). It grows in salt-marshes, so must be tolerant of low oxygen levels at the root, and occasional submersion in sea water.





cheers Darrel


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Yup that's definitely it. Impressive!

http://www.flowers.goodpages.co.uk/inde ... a-milkwort

Some of the descriptions seem to say it grows under water, and seems to even grow where there's little salt, so fingers crossed.


----------



## Lindy

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

I think your tank is beautiful but your fish look like they are really gasping. I'll say this with my usual tact, I don't think a beautiful tank should come at the cost of making the fish uncomfortable...


----------



## greenink

*259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Have upped the surface agitation again! Point taken...


----------



## Lindy

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

OOOh Thanks! Happy Fish


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Here's a quick photo update:





and here's how it was two weeks ago





really makes keeping a journal worthwhile to see these kind of changes. to the eye, it looks like it doesn't change, especially the carpet plants. i guess that's what comes of having it near the breakfast table. Those stones really do lose the purple colour quickly with the diatom algae...


----------



## Antipofish

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Getting some good growth there Mike.  I especially like the moss growth on top of the rocks.. looking very natural


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Weekly update


----------



## sarahtermite

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Wow, those stems have really bulked up. Looking good!


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Here's the video version, available in HD or whatever you like.


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Looking great Mike! Lovely video. You've got some lovely growth there and everything looks really healthy. The possible downside is the background stems look a little lonely. 

Love the moss over the rocks. Looks very natural.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> The possible downside is the background stems look a little lonely.



Yup - have a plan for how to trim them when they're all a bit thicker and bushier, and I've grown out about three or four times as many stems.


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Made some custom inlets today to try and get lots of surface agitation without any splashing noise.






Seems to work ok









Also this little gadget. Pop it over the side of the tank, attach a garden hose to outside, and 60% of the water drained with no fuss. Super.





And stems are getting nice and bushy behind the big rock


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Quick update. Trimmed quite a lot of stems out to put in the little tank. Carpet is nearly there though!





Feels like this tank is pretty much on autopilot now.... needs almost no attention, everything's just growing and healthy


----------



## BigTom

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Looking lovely there Mike. I like the low stem in front of the monolith - maybe literally one or two more creeping around the side of the stone might blend it in a touch?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				BigTom said:
			
		

> Looking lovely there Mike. I like the low stem in front of the monolith - maybe literally one or two more creeping around the side of the stone might blend it in a touch?



Yup, the whole left side needs to be a jungle of stems, with that rock only just pocking through. Just trying to grow on enough - the Limnophila aromatica (the stem you like) and the Pogostemon stellata are now looking happy, so am optimistic that in a while I'll have lots!


----------



## faizal

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Wow that's coming along very nicely now.


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Mike, that is looking really nice. Carpet is looking to be thickening out really well. Looks great!


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

The monolith has had a trim. Was just overwhelming the scale so it got hooked out and bashed with a hammer. Much better now.


----------



## B7fec

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

Hi Mike,
Have followed your journal from start to finish and it real looks like your getting great results.... well done


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> Hi Mike,
> Have followed your journal from start to finish and it real looks like your getting great results.... well done



Thanks - this kind of encouragement is really helpful! Am trying to lay all my mistakes and thinking bare throughout - so please do let me know if there's anything I'm not explaining or describing clearly. I found ukaps SO helpful at the start. It would have taken me 15 years to get to this point without advice and constructive criticism from people here. 

Have slightly ruined the hardscape now. Making the big stone smaller was the right thing to do, but has unbalanced the rest of the scape... Why can I not resist endless tinkering?


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> Hi Mike,
> Have followed your journal from start to finish and it real looks like your getting great results.... well done



Thanks - this kind of encouragement is really helpful! Am trying to lay all my mistakes and thinking bare throughout - so please do let me know if there's anything I'm not explaining or describing clearly. I found ukaps SO helpful at the start. It would have taken me 15 years to get to this point without advice and constructive criticism from people here. 

Have slightly ruined the hardscape now. Making the big stone smaller was the right thing to do, but has unbalanced the rest of the scape... Why can I not resist endless tinkering?


----------



## pariahrob

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*

The endless tinkering is what makes this hobby so fun!

I'm forever tweaking my tanks too. 

Best get some photos up soon Nike!


----------



## greenink

*Re: 259L bookcase tank - nature photography / new video*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Best get some photos up soon



Quite a big, low trim just before this shot, to get the stems to bush out properly from the base, so looks a bit bare. 





Want to put a big hill in the right corner too, but need to shorten the intake first!


----------



## greenink

Some shots from the weekend, just to give a sense of growth. None with a tripod so excuse the quality, though fish placement is pretty good in the FTS! As usual, they're loaded up at 1680px wide, so clicking to zoom will give you a much better quality photo.

Full tank shot





And then some details

















Feels like I'm getting there - not tweaking anything at all any more.


----------



## pariahrob

That really is something to be proud of. Looks so nice. That's the kind of tank I could lose hours to, just sitting and watching.


----------



## greenink

pariahrob said:
			
		

> That really is something to be proud of. Looks so nice. That's the kind of tank I could lose hours to, just sitting and watching.



Thanks! Feels like I'm slowly getting there. Taking the big rock down a peg or two, and getting the rotala to dominate that space more is working well. Half way there to plant mass now, but should be downhill from here. The central 'forward pointing rock' looks much better in real life - might borrow a fisheye lens rather than the 50mm I've got. Still not happy with the right side, but have plans once I get some time to fiddle properly.

Here's a quick week by week comparison shot. Best viewed in actual size - so click on it once, then on the little thing in the bottom right corner, to 'expand to actual size':





Am pretty amazed - you really don't see it on a day to day basis. So worth keeping a journal...!


----------



## awtong

Since you took the big rock down this tank is now much more to my personal taste and you have softened it very nicely with the stems and moss.  Can't wait to see what you do with the right hand side, I am waiting with anticipation.

Andy


----------



## Antipofish

FANTASTIC growth there. Im stunned at this one.  It grows like Mint.  And that pic of the two rummies is great too.  I like the one of the Gourami... what type is it ?   Funny how blue fish seem to look so damned good in a fish tank.  I always liked the ones in Marks tank too.


----------



## greenink

Antipofish said:
			
		

> FANTASTIC growth there.



Cheers - is quite surprising when you look at it. Seems to do a big run up and then take off.



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I like the one of the Gourami... what type is it ?



Standard Dwarf Gourami. It's the fish everyone who comes round picks out as their favourite... But then I don't have any 'star charisma' fish really. Do apistos munch shrimp? Have a lot in there and would be reluctant to lose them.

Am so tempted to pop a couple of Amazon Puffers in this tank too... must resist, must resist....


----------



## Antipofish

Well the cacatuoides i had ate 10 medium sized cherries in under 24 hours !!


----------



## B7fec

Great stuff Mike.... Photography looks good too, the tanks turning into a real gem. The week by week shots are a brilliant idea to see just how far the scapes moved on.


----------



## greenink

*Reflections*

Here's the weekly update. First the full tank shot:






Then some water change ones with reflections off the water surface - love the verdant look this gives

















Am about to do the rescape of the right hand side in a minute - basically putting in a substrate hill (with rocks inside it to keep the slope a bit better) in the back right corner. Hopefully it should make the rock in the front right look like it's coming out a mountain in a more natural way, and give more a flow across the middle transition section. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Mark Evans

Crackin' shots mate.


----------



## greenink

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Crackin' shots mate.



Thanks  . The reflection idea is copied from you actually - this was my first go at it! Just need to get the tripod out (and buy a remote button press thing) instead of doing it all hand-held with a 2 second delay to minimise shutter shake - makes it almost impossible to get fish in focus...

Here's a sneak cloudy water preview of the rescaped right hand side. Think there's bound to be some major substrate slippage as the shrimp go exploring. Have done my best to shore it up with rocks underneath and some stauro cuttings. Plan is for the stauro carpet to go all the way up this, with moss easing the transition into the rock. Am pleased with the look it gives - much more overall balance to the tank.


----------



## greenink

Here's the full tank shot now it's all cleared up. Looks a bit rough now, but promise will work when it's grown in and flattened a bit!





Or maybe I've ruined it! Only time will tell.


----------



## greenink

Quick update with weekly FTS. Looks like there's relatively little growth in the stems as I'm trimming about 15 shoots or rotala a week and replanting them into the substrate on the left hand side to set up a really thick bush there, and doing the same with the limnophila on the far left. Have enough now so am going to let it grow properly for a few weeks.





Here's the water change shots too.


----------



## somethingfishy

In my opinion I think you put together the best journals on here Mike ... have just reread it all and its great to 
see all you hard work paying off so well  

Im still a low tech guy but if i made the switch i would be refering to your journal as a guide 5* bud


----------



## Kristoph91

Looks great mate! Nice looking stauro!


----------



## Lindy

Looks great. I've ordered the fine molar clay from your link.


----------



## mark4785

Looks like a terrific set-up; never had an aquarium over 120 litres before!

Mike, May I ask what the name of the pipes are that you are using with your inline diffuser? I noticed you said they were not from an aquatic supplier. I tried to use the pipes supplied with my Fluval external filter to attach such a diffuser and it partially leaked. Due to being too scared to use the pipes due to risk of electrical fire I've reluctantly reverted back to using a in-tank diffuser.

Any recommendations on compatible pipes for in-line diffusers would be really appreciated!!


----------



## greenink

somethingfishy said:
			
		

> I think you put together the best journals on here Mike ...



Thanks – really appreciate it. Find it helps a lot, and I always want the more technical detail in other people’s. Though in this tank the secret seems to be just not tinkering with it at all: nice and steady.



			
				KrisHumphreys1991 said:
			
		

> Looks great mate! Nice looking stauro!



Thanks – have hacked it back a lot to see if it recovers, and to fill in the other side.



			
				ldcgroomer said:
			
		

> Looks great. I've ordered the fine molar clay from your link.



Good stuff! Certainly a lot cheaper. The fine grained stuff is what you want.



			
				mark4785 said:
			
		

> May I ask what the name of the pipes are that you are using with your inline diffuser? I noticed you said they were not from an aquatic supplier. Any recommendations on compatible pipes for in-line diffusers would be really appreciated!!



The pipes are just acrylic from here bent with a paint stripping gun and a pipe bending spring.

The tubing on this tank is just standard eheim 16/22 hose, but any hose will do. Maybe this stuff. If it’s a bit loose, just use a clip.


----------



## greenink

*Update*

Have been manic at work, so done almost nothing for weeks. Then a big hack back of everything yesterday, particularly the central myriophulym, and the stauro, to try and get the right hand side going properly. Have about 15 stems of limnophila on the left now.

So doesn't look great, but is ready to take off, and the overall shape is better!





Really need to take a shot _before_ i trim it! Busy few weeks coming up, so next update in a month probably.


----------



## pariahrob

That look stunning mate. So green and healthy. Hasn't taken long to get like this either. Wish mine looked as nice.


----------



## Gill

you might have mentioned it already, but where did you get your inlet strainers from


----------



## greenink

Gill said:
			
		

> where did you get your inlet strainers from



ebay right here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0877603870

if the link doesn't work try searching for Crystal Cherry Filter Guard Protect fish shrimp 16mm


----------



## greenink

Very quick update. Done basically nothing to the tank for weeks apart from add ferts when I remember, pretty unscientifically. 

Lights are a bit higher (30 cm from top maybe), and all growing fine, if slower than before. Water change about every 3 weeks at the moment. Life a bit hectic!





Had quite a lot of subsidence on the far right hand side - might shore that up a bit, but waiting for the stauro to recover enough to get a proper lot in there for when I do.


----------



## Swee

Nice, the rotala just need a little cut to densify


----------



## Lindy

I don't suppose there is any way to persuade you to make me some acrylic lily pipes? I have been looking at the glass inflows and I don't need the slotted end as I have the mesh shrimp guard. As for the out flow, I want to keep a spraybar and make one with acrylic that could attach to a lily type pipe. I don't have a pipe bending thingie and the crap heat gun was given away at a car boot... I'd cover all costs! 

Cheers, Lindy


----------



## greenink

Nope! Barely have time to breathe at the moment... Did a bit of rework a few days ago and will put photos up. Am pleased - needs almost no maintenance at the moment!


----------



## greenink

Here's a quick shot:





Moved the crypts from the centre (where they'd grown from 'tiny' plants too small to see) to the far right, as am hoping the roots will hold the substrate in a slope at the back. Bolstered that corner with rotala trimmed from elsewhere, packed in tightly 8-10 stems at a time. Looks a bit unnaturally tight at the moment but will fill out and get messier.

Have also given up on an HC carpet at the front - every time it grows it either floats or gets buried - so trimmed lots of moss and put in some moss stones at the front left - so will be a moss carpet there. And have trimmed the stauro and planted it more thickly throughout, to encourage a proper carpet through the mid-left.

Moss looks a bit sorry for itself as hadn't kept trimmed enough and was browning underneath. Will be perky in a week or two.

Go with the flow of what is working, I say!


----------



## LancsRick

Mike, I'm just about to order 30l of the Fine Moler Clay which you linked on Page 2 based on your positive assessment of it. Are you still pleased with it? I've used cat litter in the past and found it ok, but keen to try something without the perfume and in a darker colour - this seemed to fit the bill.

Thanks, and congratulations on a stunning tank.


----------



## greenink

Just sent you a DM - but yes!


----------



## greenink

Finally understand what people mean by a low-effort, good looking tank. This is just motoring along. Every now and then I trim the rotala, every now and then I give it a 70% water change (about once a month), and it just keeps going and going. I bung in ferts when I remember, otherwise it just potters onwards forever.

Nice!


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Photos mate? It's been a while!


----------



## Antipofish

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Photos mate? It's been a while!



 :text-+1:


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## jojouk

Beautiful


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## greenink

Whitey89 said:


> Photos mate? It's been a while!


 
Will do in next couple of days - quick video of my other tank is up though...!


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## Dan-CR4

is that moler clay you are using, what size did u use. I got the larger Coarse Grade 6-10mm particle size, but my plants just dont wanna stay put. re-planting them is becoming annoying. do you think the finer stuff would hold the plants better.


----------



## greenink

Dan-CR4 said:


> is that moler clay you are using, what size did u use. I got the larger Coarse Grade 6-10mm particle size, but my plants just dont wanna stay put. re-planting them is becoming annoying. do you think the finer stuff would hold the plants better.


 
I got both sizes, but if I were doing it again I'd get the finer grain. The large stuff holds everything fine for me except HC.


----------



## greenink

So here's some updated photos, just after the trim of rotala to go into the 'transparent tank'. Stauro suffering a bit, but otherwise pottering along with basically no attention at all.














And my favourite, the tiny dwarf puffer still going strong...


----------



## greenink

Have realised I've been pruning stems all wrong: way too high, way too late, which is why I'm not getting the bushy look I want. So am trying the technique in this thread (apologies for cross posting some images, but think ok as that thread is quite specific).

Here's the tank yesterday.




Issues I wanted to sort:

1. The rotala stems aren't bushy. Am going to focus on those, and put them right across the back, in a few rounded bushes. That means serious trimming.

2. The limnophila on the far left, particularly, is suffering, and not going red. So am going to move that into the centre. The light spread on this tank isn't great towards the sides / corners and it needs high light.

3. The pointing forwards rock in the middle has never really worked. So am going to move that, and fill the gap with plants in the same shape, allowing the rotala to come forward a bit in a bush to give a sense of depth.

4. Want to try some Eleocharis acicularis, which I got two lovely pots for £3.50 each. Thinking will use this as a foreground on the left and a transition plant on the right, behind the high rock.





5. And some Ammania sp. bonsai, which Westy sent me, and have seen making a great accent in among carpets. Really like it. Will be interspersed in small clumps at important focal points.

6. The Ranunculus inundatus and Hydrocotyle verticillata have both gone a bit OTT, and spread on runners throughout everything. They're both great plants and unbelievable rapid spreaders/growers, but I think better as accents as they're so messy. So am going to seriously cut them back, keep just a bit, get the stauro and Eleocharis properly going, and then let them out again. This will make the tank seem a lot less green for a little bit. But because they have quite long stems above the substrate, they've kept it from getting a proper substrate covering from other plants.

7. That crypt back right just doesn't fit. So out it goes.

8. Blyxa japonica isn't thriving, but is doing ok. So will give it a bit more space, put it more in the CO2 flow (it's demanding), and see if I can give it a bit of love.

9. Stauro carpet really suffering (was going well before). Took a proper hammering when I ran low on CO2. It's coming back, but am focusing it a bit more in a smaller area. Substrate slipping also exposed the roots a bit high, which made it ugly too. (This also happened to the blyxa).

10. Things were just growing a bit fast... And there's still algae on bits of rock, etc. So am going to cut back to just 2 T5s from 4 (with same 8hr photoperiod, CO2 on 2 hours before and off 2 hours before lights off), and see how that goes. Hoping will give me more of a 'sweet spot' to get CO2 levels right, and result in less trimming overall. Only plant that will be unhappy I think is the Limnophila.

That's about it. So here's the tank post-trim. That 'relocated' rock on the right has got some serious BBA going on. Next water change will nuke it with easycarbo. Have found with the other rocks that tying moss around the top cleans it right up too, so might do that as well at some point.



And just so you can see how radical this was, close up of right side before.




Right side after



Centre before.



Centre after.



Gulp. 

And a few more detail shots. The Eleocharis planted up with a cory already investigating.



And two flowers on my Anubias barteri var. nana. I know I should prise off those BBA infected leaves, but for some reason I just can't bring myself to.



That's about it! Shrimp multiplying like nobodies business and generally making themselves useful.

Feels like quite a big step, but think am getting the hang of it, and really good to realise I've been getting pruning so wrong. Confident tank will bounce back in a few weeks and start to look pretty good after this... It doesn't look like it from this, but there's a lot of potential plant mass in there ready to go.

As usual, thoughts, comments, suggestions really helpful! It's why I keep a journal.


----------



## greenink

Quick close up of the foreground. Mainly posting this so I can see whether there's a big difference in a week or so. Hadn't realised how bad the stauro had got - seems to be recovering now, new growth is nice and healthy.


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## Arana

Dam! can't see the images


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## LondonDragon

Arana said:


> Dam! can't see the images


All good here!!


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## Iain Sutherland

looking good mike, great to see the journey continue to unfold.  Just nuke the anubias at WC, no need to remove the leaves or you'll wait 6 months to get them back lol


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## Arana

LondonDragon said:


> All good here!!


 
Just checked, images are on dl.dropbox.com and this has been blocked on the corporate network i am currently on


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## greenink

easerthegeezer said:


> Just nuke the anubias at WC


 
If I get that low, it'll be a 95% water change. Will see what I can do but that's pretty ambitious.


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## Iain Sutherland

no need just turn the filters off for 5 mins and squirt away.


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## greenink

easerthegeezer said:


> no need just turn the filters off for 5 mins and squirt away.



Do you put easy carbo in a syringe or something for that? Amazed if this works. Can you describe more precisely? How much, etc.


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## Iain Sutherland

hey mike, if (lol, when!) i get a bit of BBA or the like then i use my normal daily dose in a syringe, just turn off the filters, squirt at the effected area, leave for 5 minutes then turn the filters back on.  Simples!
It is particularly effective on anubia leaves as they do get a little grubby over time and will also deal with GDA on them.  Couple of days later pristine leaves


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## greenink

Thanks will try


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## greenink

After a week since the big trim, things looking really healthy. Cutting back the light to just two T5s seems to have been a good decision: slower growth but all lush green and no signs of CO2 shortages.


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## greenink

Here's a quick update 10 days on from the big trim. (This is as sharp as I can get it with my Canon 60D with 1.4 50mm - find F2.8 ISO800 best setting but not that happy still). Tank today:





And right after the trim


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## Ady34

Eleocharis is filling in a treat!


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## MARKCOUSINS

It's hard sometimes even when you know it's the right thing to do to just get stuck in and give the plants a severe trim but just wait and see the dense growth.Good job cheers mark


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## flygja

Looking good. I can't imagine just going a single water change per month on my tanks, even though I am trying to make it low maintenance and all.


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## greenink

About to trim the stems back once more. This low light thing really does mean stuff grows slowly - but more healthy than ever before. The trick of blasting the anubias with a syringe of EasyCarbo at water change has also cleaned that up a lot from BBA.

Stauro in particular is recovering from my complete neglect. Here's a quick video (best in high res).



Patience... patience...


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## greenink

Though the low light was working well, got a bit frustrated that the tank was overall much darker in the room when it was on. So have switched to high intensity, short burst to see whether I can get the same effect.

For about a year have been running CO2 9.30-6.30 and 2/4*T5s 12-11. Am now switching to CO2 1.30-8.00 and 4*T5s 4-10.30, so 6.5 hours of both.

Have also changed the direction of the outlets and CO2 flow, which seems to be working much better. Was pointing directly forwards, now both outlets point to each side wall, and bounce off these down to the substrate, before going back. So effectively have two mini circles of flow, and seems to get much better distribution.


----------



## greenink

Quick full tank shot here, right after second big trim of all rotala stems (they're trimmed down to about 3 inches behind the hairgrass):



And comparison shot a month ago:



Really noticeable how much the BBA has cleared up (see the far right rock in particular).


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## greenink

SO annoying. Have just realised I've been exporting RAW images to JPG at 90% image quality practically for ever on all my posts...  Have been wondering why my shots looked so much better on screen in Aperture than in this journal. Here's the same two pictures as above, but with image export at 100%.






And a close up of the stauro



Really wish there was some easy way to auto-replace all my previous images! But I guess should just be glad I've noticed, and can get future ones looking better from now. Grrr.


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## LondonDragon

Tank is looking great, images this small don't make a huge difference  but the sharper they are the better


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## whatok

Just read your 'transparent' journal, and now im reading this one. Both excellent resources and really fascinating. I will have questions in due course!


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## greenink

whatok said:


> Both excellent resources and really fascinating. I will have questions in due course!


 
Not sure how much I can answer! My recent experience has been that precision dosing is a waste of time (I just bung in a load when I feel like it), high CO2, good surface movement, high plant mass, ruthless trimming down as low as you dare, and much less light than you want seems to work.

Have noticed today that most of my Amanos seem to have gone. But have so many cherry shrimp now doesn't really matter: they're completely self sustaining. 

And just 'cos it's such nice fish, here's a sort of close up of the mini puffer in this tank.


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## Ady34

mikeappleby said:


> And just 'cos it's such nice fish, here's a sort of close up of the mini puffer in this tank.


Lovely photo Mike.


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## greenink

Have been experimenting with the camera (Canon EOS 600D, f1.4 50mm Lens) to try and get the photos right. Have started a proper thread on this somewhere else, asking people about their flash set ups. But in the meantime, here's the best I can do with just tank lighting (4*T5s).

Luminaire lowered to about 3 cm from the surface, completely blacked out room, and a bit of white plastic in there to start with to set up an accurate custom white balance. Here are the shots straight off the camera - so this is actually how it looks .

f2.8, 1/80, ISO 200



f5.6, 1/80, ISO 400 - bit moodier, but suffering from the fact my luminaire is 15cm shorter than the tank at either end, so light really drops off in the corners.



Which do people prefer? Comments on photography really helpful.

(Eagle eyed will notice have tweaked positions of main rocks to give it more depth and tension - when the rotala grows back up behind all this, think will start to come together...)


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## greenink

Some minor adjustments. Bottom right corner I've never been happy with:



But the Anubias has now grown enough to split. So made that into three portions by cutting the rhizome, removed the moss stones from the foreground (just hasn't been happy here), banked up the substrate and put in a couple of plastic dividers to keep it steeper.



Then portioned up a whole load of Lilaeopsis brasiliensis in individual plantlets. According to various people's experience here, flourishes in similar conditions to the Anubias, so am hopeful. Have to say a spare length of PVC plastic is just the job for holding them above the tank.



And planted up. The little rocks are to hold the Anubias down until it takes root.



Am hoping for something a bit Mark Evans for the foreground (aim high, why not?)


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## greenink

Also popped in a tiny pot of Pogostemon stellata at the back, which I've never been able to grow.



But in general, this tank is now looking healthier than ever before, so hopes are up. Here's the stauro and blyxa, for example. No melting, no algae. The stauro is basically recovering from a harsh trim followed by a period of serious neglect, CO2 running out for a week  before I noticed and too-high light, but am growing enough to have a proper carpet again in a month or so.



And satisfyingly, this rock on the far right has had no regrowth of algae at all since I nuked it with Easycarbo a month ago. Now just to get the others as clean.




Put this run of minor success down to:

- getting CO2 absolutely stable (and lime green);
- reducing photo period to 6.5 hours - my big change that I'm doing from now on forever;
- nuking the BBA that had got a hold in places by spot dosing with a syringe of Easycarbo with the pumps off (only just done on the Anubias rock today, as it seems to seriously kill moss, and there was lots beneath it before);
- and limiting water changes to lights off, as have learned doing this with lights on is a massive boost for BBA and CO2 instability, even if it does lead to instant pearling and look lovely

This forum such a massive help. Would have taken me about 30 years to figure this stuff out on my own. Nearly at the point where I can grow plants properly and then concentrate on my 'scaping....


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## andyh

mikeappleby said:


> And just 'cos it's such nice fish, here's a sort of close up of the mini puffer in this tank.


Mike these is a cool picture!!!! Love it mate! They are so inquisitive !


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## greenink

After learning quite a bit about the golden rules and how to get a 'scape nicely proportioned (see this thread for lots of examples), did a bit of analysis on this tank. It just isn't right: it doesn't work in terms of 1/3s or diagonals or focus points or anything really.

Have never been happy with it, but analysing it quite strictly in terms of the golden ratio me this helped pinpoint why:

1) Each section of the 1/3s grid should be distinctive and almost make sense on it's own, but work as a whole. That's just not true of this tank. Plant groups overlap too much.

2) Two opposite corners of the central square should be the main focus points for the tank. One should be in the foreground and one back. In this tank the focus points are too far apart, too similar in level, and two similar in terms of depth (they're both at the back of the tank).

3) The tank should lead the eye across three main diagonals. This tank isn't terrible for that, but the bottom right stone cuts across this quite badly (it would be better 'flipped' horizontally), the top right stone doesn't accentuate the diagonal (it should be slightly to the left), and something in the bottom left corner to highlight the top right/bottom left diagonal would have been better. 

4) The way the tank draws the eye (red lines below) should give a bit of 'tension' to the grid and the diagonals, and make overall sense. In this tank the main 'eye drawing lines' are too similar and lack an overall shape.



Of course once I'd realised this couldn't live with it any more!

So did a pretty major rescape this weekend using bits and pieces I had lying around. Bit of bubble wrap on the bottom of the major rocks should protect the tank.



And because I wanted to see what happens if you make it easy to stick the golden rules went slightly over the top and taped the tank. You can see how much substrate has slipped over time to the front of the tank, so have consciously designed something that has more 'layers' in it and uses the hardscape more intelligently to hold substrate back.



To be fair, it's pretty hard to stick to these rules even vaguely if you can't see anything in the tank, so don't feel too bad about the OCD tape as was 'scaping the in the dark. (I don't have anywhere to move out the livestock and don't fancy catching millions of shrimp).



Found it really helpful. Have got something I'm now quite pleased with - not perfect but for the first time has real potential. Looks quite 'hardscape heavy' at this point, but is the first time I've done a hardscape while thinking quite hard about which plants will go where to accent different points and think will be able to soften it. All the fish/shrimp seem to have survived, partly thanks to massive water changes just after...


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## Ian Holdich

Looking forward to the pics mike!


----------



## George Farmer

Great update, Mike. Thanks for sharing all of your valuable lessons and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your golden rules implementation.


----------



## greenink

The dust has settled. Here's where I got to the first time round.




Much better in terms of 1/3s and grid, but the central stone with moss was dominating too much, and the tallest stone somehow felt inferior to the others. It tilting to the left also weakened the tension of the scape - the 'eye lines' in red I wanted weren't really emphasised by that stone.

So one minor reshaping later.




Slightly tighter to grid, but much better on diagonals and 'eye lines', and the tallest stone dominates much more. Planning for a thick carpet of staurogyne in the front, big blyxa bushes in the central point under the main stone, big dense rotala bush on back left and limnophila quite carefully trimmed (it's not here as am growing more stems) to emphasise the right hand red 'eye line', plus a small bacopa bush where the yellow focus point is.

Think it's actually pretty amazing how much bigger the tank looks, and particularly how much deeper (it's 40cm). I put this down to the much better use of diagonals and the fact that each piece of hardscape is positioned at a different 'depth' from front to back, which gives it far more layers. One thing that makes this really obvious to me is how much emptier the tank looks even though all the plants have been replanted directly. What was quite lush now looks sparse!

Here's the bigger resolution FTS.



When this is properly grown in, think will look much better than before. Plants slightly bunged in at the moment so it's looking pretty dominated by hardscape. Am relaxed though - as the stone fades out will get better and better.

[EDIT  Hmmm.... looking at this now, think might take out the back right stone and replace the big front right stone with two or three smaller ones in the same basic layout. Funny how things look different through a camera lens! And is a real lesson for me in how important to do the hardscape patiently and properly, leaving days for mulling over, before putting any water in. Any change now is basically a serious hassle so will ponder.]

Suggestions?


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## gmartins

Just turn the back righ stone to the right so that it points to the right side of the tank. I think it will look better.

Anyways, really good work and very inspiring.


----------



## jack-rythm

I didn't think I would like that long diagonal front right stone but you what? It's pretty cool man!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## George Farmer

Great improvement mate. I really like the way you've used the compositional guides to create a better overall balance and impact. There's a valuable lesson there for many of us. 

Well done and thanks for spending the time and effort to share.


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## faizal

Mike,...you could really turn this journal into a book. I bet there would thousands of newbies out there who could learn from this journal. Well done. I learnt a lot today .


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## greenink

faizal said:


> Mike,...you could really turn this journal into a book. I bet there would thousands of newbies out there who could learn from this journal. Well done. I learnt a lot today .



Thanks - might do a composite at some point of all my threads here - but only when I've finally ended up with a great looking tank, so it can go from zero to decent IAPLC rank...


----------



## greenink

Quick update. Here's a FTS:



Particularly pleased with the bacopa stems 2/3 of the way to the right in the mid-ground. Think will make a good focal point. Will get rid of the crypt behind that into my other tank at some point and let it go around the rock.

Have added various peacock moss stones (Fissidens) to soften the rocks. Just moss tied to little chips of the main stone with fishing line, and in a couple of places attached with stainless steel mesh tucked into rocks. It's apparently a slow grower so will be patient, but at least it attaches. There's already Christmas moss on the top stone, which is lovely, but am getting fed up with how much tying back it needs - keeps trying to migrate across the tank and never roots to stones.



Rotala is recovering from its big trim with lots of new shoots. Optimistic this is going to be a proper bush. Am going to let it get pretty unruly and to the top, then trim for shape.



The Limonophila aromatica is seriously happy in this new scape. Have done two trims in a week, replanting tops. Is getting established now, so this will be the other big bush of stems. The Pogostemon stellata is still hiding... (but never had any luck with it in the past.



Slightly concerned I may have killed a lot of cherry shrimp: can't seem to see anywhere near as many. But maybe they've just got new places to hide. Do Plecs eat them? That's the only change in fish I've had recently.


----------



## greenink

Just undid the filter to pop in some purigen. Plugged it back up and this happened.



That'll teach me. Mental note: always clean filter properly after re-scaping with full tank...


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## LondonDragon

mikeappleby said:


> That'll teach me. Mental note: always clean filter properly after re-scaping with full tank...


Bummer! It will clear in no time  then ensure you clean the filter next time you turn it off


----------



## Lindy

> Slightly concerned I may have killed a lot of cherry shrimp: can't seem to see anywhere near as many.


 
You know all those big rocks you've put in the tank? I think they might be under them . Just kidding, shrimp are great at hiding and the clay you have is easy to blend into. I'm sure they will appear, maybe not all of them though


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## greenink

LondonDragon said:


> Bummer! It will clear in no time  then ensure you clean the filter next time you turn it off



Yup it's back clear again, and the Purigen seems to be making a bit of difference already


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looks great mike (minus the cloudy water), 100% better than the last scape.


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## greenink

Quick update, mainly as have been playing with the camera rather than any real growth to speak of! This shot has quite a bit of punch, but the white balance is spot on and have finally realised that doing a tiny bit of devignetting in Aperture solves the issue of the corners of my FTS always being darker than in reality.

Think my main problem is not being able to get enough light into the scape for decent photographs...! Roll on getting an external flash - or maybe a couple of TMC 1500 tiles... Am seriously tempted.


----------



## tim

Looks really good mike, really opened my eyes your hardscape masterclass, appreciate the time and effort you put into it mate, you seem to have hit a nice balance with your rock work now, for me though the right most rock seems at odds with everything else this may not be so in the flesh so excuse if you think I'm wrong, but from the image without that rock this really would be spot on, good job indeed, enjoy your warts and all approach to your journals, keep the updates coming


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## greenink

Cheers. Agree about the bottom right, but have a plan about how to soften it over time and want to see how it transforms. Only about three minutes work to replace it with something else!


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## greenink

Unedifying but hopefully helpful update for people who like to see things in their gestation, 'warts and all'. Close up of various bits just to get a sense of how far apart things are planted and for a comparison later when everything's looking lush and verdant and healthy  . Photos terrible, literally just point, shoot, crop, upload with no changing even settings on camera.

Big trim of limnophila tonight: should be a proper thicket next time it grows up. Am trimming that literally 10 times as much as any other plant. Is like a rocket.




Rotala roundifolia bush in the back is taking longer than I'd like, but lots of stems and new growth there...




Hairgrass on the left starting to fill in - doesn't look anywhere near this brown in real life!




Pogostemon stellata still thinking about it at the back of the class




Bacopa carolina starting to thicken up. Am trimming this a lot to try and get faster bushier growth. Never letting it get more than 10cm high. Is probably a bad approach but seems to be doing ok. My favourite plant of the moment.




Staurogyne repens settling in on the right. Have found in general it takes a few weeks after being replanted to get its (huge) roots in place, then starts going for it.




and left




And Lileopolis brasiliensis deciding whether to thicken up or not.




Although this lower light thing is keeping the rocks nice and pristine, it is taking its time with getting the plants to take off! Am starting to look for reasons to get some Aquabeam tiles basically...


----------



## greenink

Uh oh. Came back from a few days away to find the CO2 had run out. So have quite a bit of pinholing on leaves, which is very annoying. Luckily I had a spare FE and the London Beer Gas people could deliver me a replacement 3kg cylinder the same day I called.

Have finally come to the reluctant conclusion that my lighting just isn't cutting it. Plants grow great in the middle 1/3, but towards the sides of the tank they just stagnate. My luminaire is a good 30cm shorter than the tank, and it's not diffusing properly.

So have treated myself to a couple of these, seeing as lots of you lot have them and are getting great results. Am hoping that two are enough, going by Ian's results with HC with just one in a 60cm tank (half the length of mine, though mine is quite a bit deeper).



 



Should be arriving tomorrow...! Hoping can get away without a power controller for a while by just altering the suspension height. Have a Grobeam 600 on my little tank and love the shimmer. Can't wait.

The other advantage is I should be able to keep the luminaire around for extra lighting for photo shoots. So no need to get any expensive flashes for the moment. Now I really have run out of excuses on both the photography and plant growth front.

Will try and do some controlled shots with manual exposure and canon's lens aberration correction to compare the lighting, distribution and brightness of the 4 * T5s and the LEDs. No PAR meter unfortunately, unless someone in London has one I can borrow for a day. Wish ADC hired them out.


----------



## greenink

So these arrived this afternoon



How much difference have they made?

Here's a quick comparison shot of T5 lighting straight of the camera. This is quite a bit darker than it looks in reality, just wanted to underexpose to show the difference with the LEDs below.



And here's a shot with the LED tank lighting, taken with the same ISO / aperture / lens correction / auto white balance / tripod position.



You can see how much brighter these are (at least to the eye - who knows about PAR!) particularly towards the edges. Will see how they go and probably raise them up a bit to get more even spread. Nice shimmer too in the tank.

What I really like, too, is that I can now add in the old 4*T5 luminaire to do a full tank shot with quite a lot of light. Which even doing really quickly (i.e. just filters off, no cleaning of glass or anything special, and with just very standard photoshop tweaking for white balance and sharpness) gives me this:



Now that's getting towards being a properly crisp shot - needs contrast and all that jazz sorting a bit, but the potential's now there. Am amazed by how much difference more than doubling the light for photos has made. So photography is pretty much there. Just to get it looking a bit lusher now.

Will probably DIY a luminaire-esque cover for the LEDs, as they spill quite a bit into the kitchen. But overall very happy with them.


----------



## hydrophyte

This is a wonderful setup.


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## Ian Holdich

Wow, they have certainly made a massive difference! 

Looking great mike!


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## greenink

Am fed up with my rotala: I've trimmed it too many times and it's just not happy towards the bottom any more. So am going to let it grow to the top and replant the lot. But before I do, am going to experiment with something.

Have heard about a rather natty way of planting rotala: basically, you pin it horizontally across the substrate. The idea is that each node sprouts roots and a new stem. Then once it's established a bit, you cut through the original stem and hey-presto, you have an incredibly densely planted rotala 'line', with one new stem for each original pair of leaves. With this method you'd only need about 10 original stems laid out in parallel strips across the substrate to get a ridiculously thick bush.

Here's my test stem:






Will let you know how it goes.


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## Ian Holdich

Sound interesting mike! Please keep us updated.


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## Li@m

I've had great success planting rotala like that. You should have ten or so stems in a week or so growing off it.


----------



## greenink

Li@m said:


> I've had great success planting rotala like that. You should have ten or so stems in a week or so growing off it.



Great! Any pictures?


----------



## greenink

Quick lights update. Am getting quite a bit of green algae on rocks with LEDs at the same height of the luminaire, which means they're definitely brighter in terms of PAR as well as to the eye. So have raised them up a bit. Judging by the analysis of their spread by glassbox on the original 1000 LEDs, think better to have them as high as possible as means less of a variation in PAR from the centre outwards. Here's their comparison of PAR at 18" and 24" - pretty much the shift in distance I've just moved them from. (All units in inches).







Can see the difference they're making already: really noticeable reaction from the hair grass in particular, which is looking much healthier and sending out lots of shoots.


----------



## Li@m

mikeappleby said:


> Great! Any pictures?


Unfortunately not.


----------



## greenink

Quick update. Have changed the flow pattern dramatically, using inlets going the length of the tank, rather than towards the front. I've been running (1) for a while, which gets good CO2 to the substrate but has quite a few dead spots. Amazed by how much switching to (2) still gets CO2 to the substrate while maybe doubling overall speed of water flow everywhere in the tank. Obvious really. Diagrams below are top-down.



(Did a custom bend of an eheim on the right, and a quick job with some spare acrylic on the left - took 15 minutes with a paintstripper gun and a pipe bending spring, just to see if it made a difference.) Initial thought is I'm getting much, much better distribution, though more surface movement too so have upped the CO2. Will make some properly thought through inlets that go a bit deeper - so reduce surface agitation a bit - and maybe have more of a lilly effect once I'm convinced this is definitely better.

All going more or less to plan, though blyxa has melted in centre and have replaced some of the rotala on left with Heminathus Micranthemoides, which is more fragile than I'd hoped and being buffeted in the new flow arrangement, so might have to move it somewhere. Eleocharis that was going brown is sprouting lots of fresh green new shoots, so think must have been too low light for it.

The bits of metal on the far left are my experiment in pinning down rotala horizontally to see if it sprouts. A few days in, the answer looks like yes!


----------



## greenink

Ordered a £6 sheet of 1.2mm stainless steel, cut to size:



Which I drilled a couple of holes in and made into a luminaire-type cover for the LEDs. Pretty hard to bend neatly, so it's far from perfect, but a big improvement from this:



To this: 



(Sellotape strip there just to hold bend in place for a bit.)


----------



## greenink

Have got in some Utricularia graminifolia from Aquaessentials. Their stock had died, so they kindly upgraded me to the Tropica 12Grow version:



Have never tried this plant before, or the 12Grow. So in it goes on left to replace the Hemianthus m. which was just getting buffeted:



Hemianthus moved to a more central position. And hydrocotyle put in the gap where my blyxa has died. Hoping it will be a bit less CO2 demanding as is a spot with poor flow I think.


----------



## flygja

Thats an excellent DIY lamp cover.


----------



## greenink

Everything looking a bit healthier since the change in flow.


----------



## greenink

A few changes afoot:

1. LED lights being brighter is causing algae. But like the growth rates. So will do a bit of spot dosing with Excel/EasyCarbo - but am fed up of how much these cost. So have ordered some Glutaraldehyde to make my own, as recommended in this thread. Is about 100 times cheaper!

2. Going to up the filtration. At the moment is just running off one Eheim 2073 (1050 lt/hr). Am adding an Eheim 2078 (1850 lr/hr) bought off a member here.

3. The test with the rotala stems being flat seemed to work well. (Sorry no photos). So am taking this to the next level and doing a bigger test with quite a few stems at once, at the back left.



4. Switching back to flake food from frozen. Made the switch initially because I had oil on the surface and thought the food might be something to do with it, but have since diagnosed that as poor plant health and don't really get it any more.


----------



## greenink

Have just realise this journal is now quite a long-running affair. Here's what the tank's been through as I've learned a lot...


----------



## LondonDragon

mikeappleby said:


> Have just realise this journal is now quite a long-running affair. Here's what the tank's been through as I've learned a lot...


Reminds me of one of my journals!! haha great read so far


----------



## greenink

Here's a quick shot this evening.



These LEDs are bright! Great plant growth. Have raised up and started dosing 15ml of a 3% DIY gluteraldehyde solution that adds 2.2mg/l every day of glute - just below negative effects on crustaceans and well above lethal to algae - effectively triple dosing excel but at 1/100 of the cost...

Waiting for the postal van to deliver a new monster filter to add to the existing Eheim. Then will do some proper maintenance to get into shape. Flow at the front right in the lilaeopsis is poor, everywhere else pretty good now. That big sweeping rock may have to go! Waiting until it does to plant the Didiplis diandra picked up at LFS a few days ago (it's hanging about in the middle right now).


----------



## greenink

Have added in a new big filter bought from a member here (the whopping Eheim 3e 2078 @1850 l/h) which is silent as a mouse.



That's meant I could ditch the old AM1000 reactor which was just getting too clogged, and instead just inject CO2 directly into the filter intake on the smaller Eheim (Pro 3 2073 @1050l/h) using one of these AquaMedic reducing T-pieces hooked up directly to the CO2. 




Works a treat: crystal clear water, lime green drop checker, and no clogging of a reactor, so reliable for ever... Can't understand why anyone does anything different, ever.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

thats a beasty mike, plenty of flow now!
What do you mean by clogging of the reactor?


----------



## greenink

All that made me confident enough to pretty much replace the hotch-potch of fish I've built up over time with a new shoal of 30 neon tetras. (Thanks to LFS for taking the others!) Much more pleasing to the eye in how they behave. Will get another 30 or so when the tank is at full health and the new filter's properly matured.



Did a mini-rescape too to improve flow, including removing the big rock on the right people here have not liked. (The new rock on the left has caught the light oddly in this photo - looks much more textured in real life). Here's an overlay of hardscape 'rules' now...



and before




Sorry these are both large files (2.5mb each). As always, comments really helpful!

Have to say, having just bought some seriyu stone for the small tank, wish I'd started out with better actual rocks in this tank. The purple schist is cool, and they were cheap, but slate just isn't as textured or interesting as seriyu, and makes getting a sense of scale much harder.


----------



## greenink

Iain Sutherland said:


> thats a beasty mike, plenty of flow now!
> What do you mean by clogging of the reactor?


 
Have found the AM1000 gets a bit bunged up with algae over time. Or when injecting inline before (or after) a filter using an UP diffuser and the like the ceramic gets slowly bunged up - I think with limescale - and the injection rate decreases, so it needs cleaning, and you have to fiddle with CO2 rates. This way, it's like the day you plumbed it in, forever.


----------



## greenink

Raised the lights up quite a bit, and added all the plants from my small tank which is undergoing a rescape and re-fit. Mostly Eleocharis acicularis and rotala 'green'.




Algae on the rocks seems to have almost completely gone as a result (though may also be adding another filter, bigger water changes and my home-brew gluteraldehyde solution). There are also four more ottos and four more cory's too, which is doing wonders for the glass and substrate respectively.

Getting there! Though won't be anywhere near IAPLC standards by the deadline. Am going to submit my best attempt nevertheless to give myself a baseline to improve from... The main aim is to get it properly algae-free by then.


----------



## greenink

Just got worried my Dwarf Gourami was about to die. Turns out he's just frisky.

What's wrong with this Gourami? | UK Aquatic Plant Society


----------



## Nutty

wow, just finished reading both your journals today i must say they are pretty awesome!

sitting looking at my comparatively looking tiny 40 ltr thinking how to convince my other half to let me get a bigger one!!!

is the rock in there at the moment still from your original 110 kg you picked up from the quarry?


----------



## greenink

Thanks! 

Yes - though in retrospect think would have just got loads of mini landscape rock - the fine grained texture of this makes the tank look much bigger than it really is, whereas this slate doesn't do that troempe l'oeil thing.


----------



## greenink

One of these arrived today. Should make my tank maintenance even easier: will dose macros, micros and gluteraldehyde mix (DIY easycarbo) straight into the filter outlet hose...




Here's what the tank's looking like today.


----------



## faizal

Hi Mike. How did your experiment with the pinned down rotalas go? Did they manage to bush up nicely?  The tank certainly looks like it's settling in nicely.


----------



## greenink

faizal said:


> Hi Mike. How did your experiment with the pinned down rotalas go? Did they manage to bush up nicely?  The tank certainly looks like it's settling in nicely.



Didn't really work... Which is a shame. Got a few sprouts but taken over by everything else. Might try again at some point.


----------



## faizal

It was an interesting experiment nevertheless.


----------



## greenink

Quick update shot with no tripod and filters still on. Have lowered lights and seen a massive increase in growth, albeit with algae starting on the rocks now. You can see the shimmer effect the LED lights give.

Seriously pondering whether to do IAPLC... Would be happy as long as I'm not actually last - and would give me a benchmark to improve on next year. Clearly, it's a long way from being as good as most of the other tanks on here, and would be a lot better with a lot more growing in, and some proper shaping trimming. But still a huge improvement on anything I've done before!


----------



## Nutty

its looking great dude! you should definitely enter IAPLC... just for some recognition for your hard work!

Although that is a very greeeeen lily pipe!

I like the filter on photo, makes the whole scene move, adds more naturalness!


----------



## Ady34

Looking good Mike.
I agree, enter, like you say gives a bench mark and nice to be part of something.....the more the merrier  You will definitely not be last!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## greenink

Here's a shot with hardware removed, and extra lighting. Was going for an IALPC style shoot but stupidly left it until too late in the photoperiod, with CO2 too high, and couldn't get the tetras to shoal properly... So unless I can be bothered to do it again, may enter a shot from this shoot. This isn't quite the one, but you get the general idea. Amano will be cross about the BBA and rotala bush not being trimmed nicely...



Have got a new lens arriving soon - the Canon EFS 15-85mm which should give me a chance to see what this looks like through a wider angle. (This is taken with a 50mm 1.4 lens, which is a great lens but doesn't give that flexibility). If it arrives in time and I can be bothered, might do another version. Taking the hardware out is a right faff though in the way this tank is set up, as it all goes behind...


----------



## greenink

Here's a shot with the new lens (just after water change, and with filters on, so poor quality). Interesting how different the tank looks through 15mm... Really shows I shouldn't have frosted the sides - as there's no reflection from these.




Have added another TMC 1500 today to get more even light (plants are responding much better when I lowered the two tiles again), attached to a multi-controller which VERY annoyingly emits a high pitch whine when you dim below 95% (SURELY they should have mentioned that on the box before I spent a shed load of cash), and also plumped in an auto-dosing pump doing 15ml of macro in the morning, 15ml of micro in the evening, and 15ml of my custom EasyCarbo triple strength just before lights on. Now all I have to do is remember to feed the fish!


----------



## greenink

Ten days later... adding that third light and the dosing pump has made a BIG difference to growth




IMG_2295 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Am also switching to Flickr for image hosting - a terabyte free!


----------



## Joel S

That's astounding! Especially the HM (if that's what it is) in the middle.


----------



## Nutty

that is just wow! are you sure that's only ten days? have you been using some magic dust in there too?


----------



## greenink

Nutty said:


> that is just wow! are you sure that's only ten days? have you been using some magic dust in there too?


 
I know! There's quite a bit of algae on the rocks, so the light is obviously too high, but am really surprised. Is more growth than in the past year put together... So satisfying to just see a tank of green when I come home.



Joel S said:


> Especially the HM (if that's what it is) in the middle.


 
Yes, it's HM. It's the hydrocotyle that has really gone for it though.


----------



## Pinkmummy79

mikeappleby said:


> Comes in a 'powder type' too so have got 30l of that and 60l of the standard. Want to see if the powder type works better with carpet plants. After all ADA seem to think its worth doing...


 Hi Mike, did you use all 90 litres in the end?  just wondering as my tank is similar size and was just going to order 60 l of the fine stuff but now unsure if this will be enough, depends on if I bank it high?
cheers


----------



## greenink

Nowhere near. Have about 3/4 bag of the bigger grained stuff left. But if nothing else, this journal is real proof you can definitely grow plants in it...


----------



## oldbloke

Beautiful.


----------



## greenink

oldbloke said:


> Beautiful.



Thanks. Is getting a bit out of hand. Banshee on sky atlantic seems to have replaced pruning.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Wow mike! 
Ten days and that's gone crazy...looks proper jungle like at the moment. I quite like it!


----------



## greenink

Finally had time to do a bit of maintenance. So it's gone from here:


IMG_2302 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

To here:


IMG_2309 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


IMG_2310 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


IMG_2310 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Have trimmed the lileopsis hard - no idea if it will recover, but this removes the BBA. Overall this tank is pretty healthy now.


IMG_2313 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Fair to say this by far the biggest trim I've ever done! Interested to see what happens now... Was amazing how much limnophila and hydrocotyle I ended up throwing away. Next time I'll post plants out to whoever wants them.

(Am also a big fan of flickr for hosting - these images took about 30 seconds to get sized right and uploaded).


----------



## greenink

Ian Holdich said:


> Wow mike!
> Ten days and that's gone crazy...looks proper jungle like at the moment. I quite like it!


 
Completely agree. Am sort of hoping it goes for it again, but twice as thick. There's nothing like sitting in front of a lush, green tank with a beer in the hand, knowing that all that reading of ukaps and trial and error has paid off... Would say a big thank you to everyone on here. Otherwise I'd still be sitting in front of the tank I had on the day I found this site a couple of years ago...






You can read all about where that one got to in my other journal if you're interested...


----------



## greenink

Here's a slightly better photo, now the pearling is a bit more under control


IMG_2404 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## greenink

Two weeks later, with absolutely zero maintenance as have been away, and it's out of control again! Though this time it's more of an algae-fest.


IMG_2538 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Hmmm... Think may need to cut down the lighting a bit. And maybe have more than the one or two Amanos that are still left. (The big rescape a while ago did lots of the original ones in it seems).


----------



## greenink

Right. Algae gone a bit out of control after going on holiday for a couple of weeks and getting a friend to feed the fish...


IMG_3295 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## greenink

Don't know what's wrong with my flickr - seems to have lost a few of my photos! Here's the lot that are supposed to be above...

Flickr: mike@ukaps' Photostream


----------



## Nutty




----------



## greenink

Here's a very quick photo update. First a bit of a clean up and chop down after the above...


IMG_3460 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

And where it is today.


IMG_3546 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Is not the prettiest, but basically on autopilot, so I do almost nothing to it. Maybe 20 mins a week.

Have got a bit of hair algae, but, really, meh.


----------



## greenink

Rebirth...

So it all got a bit out of control. So I've totally stripped it back and am going for a different look with the same hardscape - aiming for a low profile Lilaeopsis brasiliensis carpet with a bit of a Hemianthus bush behind it. No idea if this will work, but worth a try. Looks amazingly empty after the jungle above [have tried to fix flickr links again, not sure why they keep breaking].


IMG_3872 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## darren636

You've come a very long way, well done on everything pal.


----------



## richard powell

Looks great bud gd to see u got the algae under control


----------



## greenink

richard powell said:


> Looks great bud gd to see u got the algae under control


 

This was more of a strip out the whole lot job than an 'under control' job...


----------



## richard powell

mikeappleby said:


> This was more of a strip out the whole lot job than an 'under control' job...



Fair enough but at least its sorted now mate


----------



## greenink

[EDIT - Have switched flickr uploader, and hope that images from here on will be good. Will go back and fix previous if the links are broken again!]

Have been admiring this tank at the Green Machine recently and decided to copy the basic idea in this tank, just as a trial run to see how it goes. Have never done an 'imitation' tank before. Feels a bit wrong in lots of ways, but this is the last scape in this tank before something big happens (!!!) and need a bit of practice.

Don't really have the hardscape rocks I need, but this type of layout suited the ones I do have more than others. So here's a sneak preview of the new hardscape (from the least flattering angle - proper photos once the dust has settled). Planting idea remains pretty much the same.


Untitled by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## darren636

I loved watching the making of Crimson sky. Great scape.


----------



## richard powell

darren636 said:


> I loved watching the making of Crimson sky. Great scape.


Totally agree with you


----------



## greenink

Yup, is a complete beauty. Here's a full tank shot of my hardscape attempt.


Untitled by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Furthest 'jutting' rock to the right could be quite a bit better. Might replace when I next do a big water change.

Video coming shortly when it's processed...


----------



## greenink

And here's the video



Am really rather pleased with the timing in this video. Give it 33 seconds and you'll see what I mean...


----------



## greenink

Wow. Have just realised this journal has had more than 20,000 views. Blimey.

Hope someone's found it useful!


----------



## darren636

I would say your journal has been the most insightful on ukaps. You've shared everything along the way.


----------



## greenink

Thanks! Mostly where it's gone wrong!


----------



## greenink

Replaced the stone to the far right and added about 10 cherry shrimp, some HC and a bit more Hemianthus micranthemoides from my other tank, which I'm gradually stripping down. The HC had serious roots from the other tank where it had been for a few months. (Had never been successful in growing it before then). Sure it will now float off or die or something. Shrimp seem to like it though.

Anyway, pictures, which I'll try and number with days since the rescape as I've found this way of doing it really helpful on other people's tanks:


Day 9 shot 18 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


Day 9 shot 31 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Am trying to be a bit more religious about water changes. So this is the 3rd 70% change in 9 days. Seeing if that makes a difference. Was pleased to see when I moved some of the Lillaeopsis - to make way for the HC - that this has grown pretty good roots of every individual plantlet I put in. So expecting some more visible progress soon. Think plants were recovering from my pretty severe trim!


----------



## greenink

Forgot this photo, which really shows the colour of the purple schist stone. For some reason, can't get it to come out properly in overall tank photos.


Day 9 shot 32 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## greenink

Ended up in Wrexham accidentally, so popped in to TGM. Learned a useful little tip: they use an 8mm internal diameter hose to do cleaning by siphoning - just enough suction to get crud out without dislodging plants or hairgrass. So some arrived from a cheap ebay supplier by post today. Works a treat.


8mm hose by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Also bought some new pincettes, which feel lovely, and make a surprising amount of difference. And planted in some Elechoaris mini.


Pincettes by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Final thing: trying a new way of holding down the quite big bits of HC carpet (10cm square or so) I've lifted and shifted from my other tank. Basically using bits of garden steel wire bent into an upside-down U shape, and inserted. When the HC roots in properly will either remove, or just leave them in.


Bookcase day 14 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Quick water change (4th so far). And here's where it is today.


Bookcase day 14 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


----------



## greenink

Day 19. Stuff growing in a bit. Am trying to be disciplined about water changes. So here's one I did earlier. Everything looking pretty healthy and starting to spread out with new runners. Managed to snap pipe cleaning brush so rocking the dirty look for a while longer...


Day 19 shot 1 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr


Day 19 shot 2 by mike@ukaps, on Flickr

Also cleaned the big filter for the first time ever, using water from the water change... Not too jammed up but definitely a bit dirty.


----------



## James O

Great read!  Thanks for the honest 'warts and all' presentation. Gives a noob like me a realistic view of what to expect when I set up my big tank

Love the DIY pipes & shade


----------



## greenink

Aaargh. Just discovered my timer plug on CO2 solenoid has literally been doing its own thing at random. Explains quite a lot! Wonder how long that's been going on for.

Taking the opportunity to do a proper CO2 / PH over time test this evening. Results later in lovely graph form, thanks to this cheap and cheerful device arriving in the post. 



Note: you need 500ml of RO water to calibrate it... Deeply annoying if you don't have any to hand.


----------



## greenink

Hmm. So I've got these results so far this evening.




The first bit of good news is that I'm timing it about right: the PH drops pretty much to it's lowest point just as the lights come on, which means that I've got the highest CO2 just as the plants begin photosynthesising - though I should probably push it back to 2hrs from 1.5 hrs just to be on the safe side. (The lights ramp up from 0% to 100% quickly over 30 mins as I don't like the whining noise they make at anything less than 100%.)

The second bit of good news is that the CO2 levels are pretty stable - there's not a huge amount of change in PH after 17.45 - so less likely to have BBA type problems.

The big bit of bad news is that my drop checker look like this:



(White balance corrected in Aperture using the white sucker as a reference).

Must have knocked the needle valve some time recently without noticing. So I'll take a few more readings, and if the PH and drop checker don't move any further, then I'll crank up the CO2 to a point where I'm getting lime green on the drop checker, and then repeat the exercise tomorrow!

Main lesson so far: look at the drop checker properly more often, don't just assume it's where it used to be! But can also see the real value of this way of homing in on the right injection rate and timing.


----------



## greenink

Interesting results. Even though I've turned up the bubble rate a lot, the 'straight to filter' technique I've been using seems maxed out - it doesn't look like the filter can handle as much as I'm putting in. (Link to the thread on this approach here). I'm just getting a bit of build up within the filter, not any quicker or more CO2 diffusion.





This approach worked fine on my smaller tank (70L) using an Eheim 2075 pro 3, but in this tank, with the same filter, it just isn't cutting it. So maybe it's a technique that has limitations, and you need to be careful about not overdoing the injection, as you just waste CO2 without increasing the diffusion into the water.

So it's back to the drawing board on CO2. Am going to try a Sera diffuser for a bit and see if that works better, as have quite good flow and have never used an in-tank one before.




Might give the Aquamedic another go at some point if the bubbles drive me potty - have got a few ideas about how to make it work better and silently.

This would be no fun if it was easy.


----------



## greenink

Bit of cynobacteria in the front glass below the substrate. So have done some seasonal decoration to starve it of light with tin foil....


----------



## greenink

After three days testing, have pretty much nailed a 1.1 PH drop to a lime green drop checker and relatively stable CO2 throughout the 6.5hr light period.

Needs CO2 on 3 hrs before lights though... And much higher injection than previously, through an internal diffuser. 

Hooray! Will put up charts at some point during the week.


----------



## darren636

Greenink ! Mike has done a runner?


----------



## greenink

darren636 said:


> Greenink ! Mike has done a runner?



Same bloke, just now the same name across different things! Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## greenink

..


----------



## greenink

Here's the CO2 chart with the levels finally sorted.


----------



## greenink

Day 39 since the rescape: Quick update. Here's how the tank is looking. Overall quite a bit of growth. Carpet filling in and recovering nicely. But some algae issues that I'm hoping isn't BBA.



Have had a glass cover lid made in the ADA style by a local glazer for £10, and ordered some tiny ADA clips for 12mm glass for another £12 (!)...





...and going to get in some Siamese Algae Eaters in next week I think. They're proper jumpers, hence the lid! Have never liked lids on tanks, but have been pretty sold on how neat the ADA style glass ones look.


----------



## greenink

Bit of DIY and general tinkering.

Have noticed that my shrimp aren't really breeding in this tank, and think I might be injecting too much gluteraldehyde daily (it's automated along with macro and micro using a cheap dosing pump; really recommend doing this!). So am cutting that out entirely in favour of spot dosing. It doesn't seem to be keeping algae at bay much anyway.

So made a DIY spot-dosing 'chamber' for getting gluteraldehyde solution onto carpet plants (my lilaeopsis is starting to suffer from BBA/staghorn).



So have tried using this on an affected area on the right hand side, injecting the maximum that my tank can take while being ok for shrimp (9ml of 3% solution) into the chamber for 15 minutes with filters off.



Just to be scientific-ish, am doing a HARD trim on the left hand side to see which method works best, along with a trim on the stems.

[Photos of trim updated when lights come on].

Also got a bit fed up with my custom acrylic inlets getting dirty, so made some with side slits like the NA ones. Here's a comparison with the original ones I made.



And have also added a Hydor 3200 powerhead to improve flow. Ug. Not pretty, but going belt and braces in this tank to get things really healthy, then will start stripping back...


----------



## greenink

Quick snap of the Marsilea hirsuta I planted a couple of weeks ago. Really like this little plant now it's transforming into its submerged form. Was pretty browned off when I bought it (with a discount) and is basically recovered. May end up being a favourite.



You can see the BBA/staghorn pretty clearly on the Lilaeopsis. Here's almost the same shot post-trim... Am I doing this right?



Learning from Ian who does it like this in a rather slick video:


----------



## greenink

Here's the shot post-trim



And the cover I had made by a local glazier for about £10 - using ADA clips for 12mm glass - think looks seriously clean. Plus shows how much condensation was coming off the tank!


----------



## greenink

BBA is retreating massively. Cleaned out filters, raised lights, cut off infected leaves, water changes every two days, improved flow with a hydor 3200 pump, and added this little fellow. Caught right in the act of eating BBA... Makes a big difference.



And because I can't help but tinker, have put the AM1000 back in operation. Want to see if I can get this way of injecting right before I move on to my next big tank... Here's the custom filling.


----------



## greenink

That little Siamese Algae Eater is fast becoming my favourite. Such an industrious little chap. Satisfying to watch too, when you know each little bite is taking out BBA from the tank...



Sorry about the advert - can't find royalty free music!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

greenink said:


> And because I can't help but tinker, have put the AM1000 back in operation. Want to see if I can get this way of injecting right before I move on to my next big tank... Here's the custom filling.


 
Hey mike, its all looking very well. Suprising what a few weeks of hard labour can do.
Ive found the reactor works best with no media in it, i get a few small bubbles spit out when the 2080 is on full wack but not much so 90%? disolution with no media so no loss in flow which is worth more... that looks pretty packed.

Must be the season for BBA...


----------



## greenink

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hey mike, its all looking very well. Suprising what a few weeks of hard labour can do.
> Ive found the reactor works best with no media in it, i get a few small bubbles spit out when the 2080 is on full wack but not much so 90%? disolution with no media so no loss in flow which is worth more... that looks pretty packed.
> 
> Must be the season for BBA...



Yup! Good luck with yours. 

Don't have a flow problem now with the hydor in there. Found the AM1000 made a gushing noise when empty as bubble of CO2 gathered at the top and water entering drove me mad. 

Might just make a 1m long PVC inline one for my next tank as will have lots of space behind it, using two aqua medic t-pieces in the hose going in - one for co2 injection, the other for air escape.


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## greenink

This is rather pleasing. After setting up the AM1000 and putting the CO2 at a rough guess, came home to this:



...with beautifully clear water and no bubbles. Fingers crossed is a seamless transition.


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## greenink

It's all coming together a bit. Regular water changes, Co2 stable and high, SAE, Hydor, clean filters, lights higher. And here we are:


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## greenink

Quick update 57 days in to rescape. Here's what it looked like on day 1:



And here's where it is today:



Am actually approaching a proper carpet! Having really struggled before, suddenly I have pretty passable sections of quite a few things - HC, Lileopsis, Monte Carlo, Marsilea - so starting to see pros and cons of each, and will have enough in a few months to go with my next project - a 480l, seriously ambitious slow build.

Have finally got sick of the whistling from the TMC Aquaray 1500 tiles when they're dimmed, and am getting better results with lower lighting than 100%, so have sent them off to have them 'upgraded'. Here's the thread on that discussion...

High pitch whine on TMC LED tiles | UK Aquatic Plant Society

The second photo above is taken with my old T5 luminaire, which I always struggled with. Can't help feeling the colour balance is quite a bit nicer. It's also positioned much further back than the LEDs, which also makes a big difference. Worth noting for future set-ups how much difference that makes!


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## TOO

Great example of how things can be turned around. Instructive.

Thomas


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## terry82517

How thick is the glass lid mate?


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## greenink

terry82517 said:


> How thick is the glass lid mate?



8mm not even toughened. Same as ADA (which also uses float glass apparently).


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## greenink

TOO said:


> Great example of how things can be turned around. Instructive.
> 
> Thomas



Now its about getting the stems in the right shape - there's enough plant mass following the first trim and replant


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## greenink

Day 80... Lights have basically been either off (ran out of CO2) or very low (sent back the TMC Aquaray tiles to be altered as the whistling when they were dimmed was driving me mad, which took about two weeks - they're now silent and perfect). But overall, the healthiest tank I've ever had.


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## george dicker

what is your co2 in mg/l i think if i can boost my levels i can get plant growth like yours


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