# Good Macro lens for Canon 400d?



## mantis147

Hello All,
Im after a bit of help with my Canon 400d, I have had the camera for the last 5 years and always used the standard 18-55mm lens but its no good for the close up tank/shrimp pictures? Im no camera expert but can anyone recommend a good lens for doing this at all?
Thanks
Lee.


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## Dantrasy

have you tried extension tubes? they work a treat.


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## naughtymoose

Lee,
 I'm new to aquarium photography, but I use the Canon 100mm 2.8L USMII on my 600D for my other hobby of insect/wildlife photography.

The trouble is: it is a majorly expensive outlay for this sort of thing. As Dantrasy says, try extension tubes first. Have you thought about making friends at a local photography club? Facebook Macro groups might be useful too.


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## Another Phil

Hi Mantis147,
The Tamron 90mm macro lens is good, as are any of the Canon macros, You'd probably need in the region of 100mm macro to reach to the back of the tank at reasonable magnification.
If you go the extension tube route make sure you get ones that do auto-exposure etc.
An alternative would be close-up lenses that screw into your filter thread, the cheapest option to see if you do enough close-up photography.
Whichever option you choose I'd recommend a soft lens hood as it is very easy to  clunk the tank when doing macro.

Apologies if this sound patronising but a 60mm macro lens will only really do macro close to the front of the rank, towards the back you will probably need more of a 100-200mm macro lens which gives you a 1:1 ratio at a greater distance.
cheers phil


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## mantis147

Dantrasy said:


> have you tried extension tubes? they work a treat.


I will check these out cheers!


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## mantis147

naughtymoose said:


> Lee,
> I'm new to aquarium photography, but I use the Canon 100mm 2.8L USMII on my 600D for my other hobby of insect/wildlife photography.
> 
> The trouble is: it is a majorly expensive outlay for this sort of thing. As Dantrasy says, try extension tubes first. Have you thought about making friends at a local photography club? Facebook Macro groups might be useful too.



I will check the 100mm lens out thanks, Yeah i am aware of the cost side of it so ideally after 1 lens which will do the trick.


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## mantis147

Another Phil said:


> Hi Mantis147,
> The Tamron 90mm macro lens is good, as are any of the Canon macros, You'd probably need in the region of 100mm macro to reach to the back of the tank at reasonable magnification.
> If you go the extension tube route make sure you get ones that do auto-exposure etc.
> An alternative would be close-up lenses that screw into your filter thread, the cheapest option to see if you do enough close-up photography.
> Whichever option you choose I'd recommend a soft lens hood as it is very easy to  clunk the tank when doing macro.
> 
> Apologies if this sound patronising but a 60mm macro lens will only really do macro close to the front of the rank, towards the back you will probably need more of a 100-200mm macro lens which gives you a 1:1 ratio at a greater distance.
> cheers phil



My brother mentioned about the Tamron 90mm but hes never kept a fish tank so couldnt specify if it would be good for that.

Im going to check the extension tubes so thanks for the tip on auto-exposure, I have got the cheaper screw on lenses too but wasnt too impressed to be honest. will check the soft lens hood out too.

most of the shrimp stand nicely at the front of the tank so i shouldnt need to focus on the back, plus the light gets dim at the back also.

Cheers
Lee.


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## X3NiTH

You're not limited to Canon lenses, you can also use all Nikon F-mount lenses with a Canon to Nikon F-mount adapter.  Grays of Westminster is probably the best for second hand Nikon lenses, I've bought second hand from them before and their grading scheme is accurate, 105mm f/2.8D Micro-Nikkor second hand is about £450, (it's an autofocusing lens but the autofocus is screw driven so adapter may not do autofocus but the lens can be manually focused) brand new auto focusing Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G (gelded lens no aperture ring) from Calumet is £620, quite a saving. Canons equivalent the 100mm f/2.8L Macro is £700.

That's if you need to macro at the back of the tank, if you're happy with just doing macro at the front of the tank a 60mm will do, that's way way cheaper. The Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D is £300 second hand or £370 brand new, D version from Calumet or G version (gelded no aperture ring) everywhere else.


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## GlassWalker

Newer Nikon lenses don't make much sense to adapt to Canon. Adapters don't have any form of communication, so no electronic aperture control, no VR, no AF, nothing. Some adapters can manipulate the mechanical aperture lever if present, but better is to find older ones with an aperture ring. Or just not bother at all.

The EF-S 60mm is always a safe bet. The older Tamron 90mm lenses extend quite a lot when close focusing, plus have a deeply recessed front element so you lose working distance. I'm not sure if more recent variations still suffer that. The Canon 100mm non-L is quite a lot cheaper than it's L. In general there aren't really any bad true macro lenses, so it is hard to make a bad choice as far as image quality is concerned. Any decision may be made based on more practical factors. As always going used will save from buying new.


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## Dantrasy

Some of my best pics were taken with a canon 600d, 18-55 kit lens and a $5 set of extension tubes. Also needed a lot of patience.

View attachment hjhj_zps56683707.png


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## Christos Ioannou

Check reverse mount rings. You can use kit lens 18-55 to take extraordinary macros.
See this video demo here. Mine is also in the mail


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## mantis147

Dantrasy said:


> Some of my best pics were taken with a canon 600d, 18-55 kit lens and a $5 set of extension tubes. Also needed a lot of patience.
> 
> View attachment hjhj_zps56683707.png



Cracking pic that first one! i have just been browsing these extension tubes is it best getting a set or specific sizes? also any recommendations on the make?
They have got to be worth a go first for the price!


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## mantis147

Christos Ioannou said:


> Check reverse mount rings. You can use kit lens 18-55 to take extraordinary macros.
> See this video demo here. Mine is also in the mail



another good option, never though of this method before. I will try one of these too cheers!

Just before i jump in at the deep end buying a new camera & lenses!


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## mantis147

X3NiTH said:


> You're not limited to Canon lenses, you can also use all Nikon F-mount lenses with a Canon to Nikon F-mount adapter.  Grays of Westminster is probably the best for second hand Nikon lenses, I've bought second hand from them before and their grading scheme is accurate, 105mm f/2.8D Micro-Nikkor second hand is about £450, (it's an autofocusing lens but the autofocus is screw driven so adapter may not do autofocus but the lens can be manually focused) brand new auto focusing Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G (gelded lens no aperture ring) from Calumet is £620, quite a saving. Canons equivalent the 100mm f/2.8L Macro is £700.
> 
> That's if you need to macro at the back of the tank, if you're happy with just doing macro at the front of the tank a 60mm will do, that's way way cheaper. The Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D is £300 second hand or £370 brand new, D version from Calumet or G version (gelded no aperture ring) everywhere else.



Some great info X3NiTH thanks, I think I will have a crack at the cheaper options first and see how it goes.


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## LondonDragon

mantis147 said:


> My brother mentioned about the Tamron 90mm but hes never kept a fish tank so couldnt specify if it would be good for that.


Have a look at some of my journals, I use a Tamrom 90mm with my Sony as I did with my old Konica-Minolta, auto focus is a little slow, but I tend to use manual settings on a macro lens anyway. You can find these at decent prices too.


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## mantis147

LondonDragon said:


> Have a look at some of my journals, I use a Tamrom 90mm with my Sony as I did with my old Konica-Minolta, auto focus is a little slow, but I tend to use manual settings on a macro lens anyway. You can find these at decent prices too.



Really good pics mate, the Tamron 90mm does seem to be a decent lens as recommended by a few now. Ive got my brother over with his canon 70d and the tamron 90mm lens to test over the weekend im sure that will help make my decision! No doubt i will end up with a new camera and lenses! haha.


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## LondonDragon

What you need is good lighting too, otherwise just the lens will not help! in the photos above I had my external flash unit just above the tank on wireless mode. Without that you can't go to F stops 18-32, which will then give you limited DOF.


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## Another Phil

Hi Mantis147,
As LondonDragon above says, you need flash to get a small aperture as macro has very small depth of field and also at macro scales a small movement is amplified so you need a fast shutter speed as well.

when I see what Alex08 has achieved with a Benq compact I'm tempted to buy one rather than use my DSLR!
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/yellow-passion-nano-with-yellow-shrimp.31420/page-3#post-381690
cheers phil


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## X3NiTH

Reverse lens mounting or 'Lens Bashing' worked quite well getting a macro'ish image out an iPhone using a 50mm lens.



Great to play around with but nothing really does macro as good as a dedicated macro lens does.


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## mantis147

X3NiTH said:


> Reverse lens mounting or 'Lens Bashing' worked quite well getting a macro'ish image out an iPhone using a 50mm lens.
> 
> 
> 
> Great to play around with but nothing really does macro as good as a dedicated macro lens does.



Confused me now! how do you use a iphone with a 50mm lens?


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## mantis147

Another Phil said:


> Hi Mantis147,
> As LondonDragon above says, you need flash to get a small aperture as macro has very small depth of field and also at macro scales a small movement is amplified so you need a fast shutter speed as well.
> 
> when I see what Alex08 has achieved with a Benq compact I'm tempted to buy one rather than use my DSLR!
> http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/yellow-passion-nano-with-yellow-shrimp.31420/page-3#post-381690
> cheers phil



Yeah i understand the lighting issue and am i correct that the fast shutter speed is dictated by the camera rather than the lens?


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## X3NiTH

mantis147 said:


> Confused me now! how do you use a iphone with a 50mm lens?



Phone in one hand lens in the other, line them up, get focus, take picture!

Couldn't be simpler!


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## Another Phil

mantis147 said:


> the fast shutter speed is dictated by the camera rather than the lens


 Yep, that's right, and off-camera flash is needed to avoid glare off the glass (and macro distances mean the front of the lens blocks the on-camera flash anyway) [sorry if you know all this already].

X3NiTH's idea is good; try the lens reversed as well.

cheers phil


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## X3NiTH

mantis147 said:


> Yeah i understand the lighting issue and am i correct that the fast shutter speed is dictated by the camera rather than the lens?



Shutter speed is a camera setting. If you need to freeze a subject in motion you need a fast shutter speed, if you need lots of depth of field for more of the subject in focus you need a narrow aperture, doing both requires either more light 'or' a higher ISO setting. When you run out of ISO and you can't get the desired depth of field at the needed shutter speed and if you can't add more light then you either have to make compromises in the depth of field or the shutter speed. 

You will quickly run out of light shooting high shutter speeds and narrow apertures when doing aquarium photography especially macro unless you add more light. Bumping the ISO isn't always an option as higher ISO degrades the image quality, most cameras usually have a limit to how high you can put the ISO before you start introducing large amounts of noise

Lenses can be described as fast or slow, given the same length lens, say a 50mm, then an f/1.8 would be a fast lens and f/5.6 would be a slow lens.


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## mantis147

Another Phil said:


> Yep, that's right, and off-camera flash is needed to avoid glare off the glass (and macro distances mean the front of the lens blocks the on-camera flash anyway) [sorry if you know all this already].
> 
> X3NiTH's idea is good; try the lens reversed as well.
> 
> cheers phil



i have noticed this with the flash and it get annoying when the flash automatically pops up when taking a pic!

I got a reverse mount this week but it must be the wrong one as it wont mount to the camera it looks too small, although the screw thread fits the lens ok.


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## mantis147

X3NiTH said:


> Shutter speed is a camera setting. If you need to freeze a subject in motion you need a fast shutter speed, if you need lots of depth of field for more of the subject in focus you need a narrow aperture, doing both requires either more light 'or' a higher ISO setting. When you run out of ISO and you can't get the desired depth of field at the needed shutter speed and if you can't add more light then you either have to make compromises in the depth of field or the shutter speed.
> 
> You will quickly run out of light shooting high shutter speeds and narrow apertures when doing aquarium photography especially macro unless you add more light. Bumping the ISO isn't always an option as higher ISO degrades the image quality, most cameras usually have a limit to how high you can put the ISO before you start introducing large amounts of noise
> 
> Lenses can be described as fast or slow, given the same length lens, say a 50mm, then an f/1.8 would be a fast lens and f/5.6 would be a slow lens.



Great info Cheers, a 50mm lens is on my list for doing portrait pictures of my kids/family.


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## mantis147

Right as expected I have now upgraded my Camera lol!

i ended up getting the Canon EOS 700d as it had the viewfinder and got the extra £50 cashback too. It has the 18-55mm IS STM lens which it better than my old 18-55mm on the 400d. I also got a HAMA Tripod and a Yongnuo YN-565 EX ii flash.
So Im still in the hunt for a Macro Lens but can practice with cropping in the mean time as im now skint lol! Lighting correctly is now my next challenge as im totally new to external flashes, i did get a diffuser with it that may help.

My initial plan was to use the new flash with the Canon 400d but turned out it was not compatible with the software. 

I presume the best method to get good light is by using the external flash remotely off the camera?


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## Another Phil

Hi Mantis147,



mantis147 said:


> I presume the best method to get good light is by using the external flash remotely off the camera?


 
Yes, either from above the tank or through the front glass at enough of an angle that the light reflection doesn't shine into the camera.

I don't know your equipment but assuming you are using the pop-up flash to trigger the remote put a bit of foil in front of the pop-up so it can flash towards the remote but not flash onto the glass.

Camera on tripod set up, use the self timer or interval shooting to give yourself time to hold the  remote flash in position to test lighting angles: unless you have a remote release.

Get spare flash-gun batteries

I'm Pentax and ancient flash-guns with slave-units so can't answer anything too technical.
cheers phil


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## mantis147

cheers for the info Phil, I have not figured out how to trigger the external flash off the camera one just yet but should get the hang of it soon.

The tripod make it so easy get the picture! not quite sure why i didnt get one 5 years ago when i had my 400d!

thanks for the tip on the batterys too!


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## naughtymoose

Mantis, I'm not sure if you can trigger the Yongnuo with the in-built 700d flash trigger. Have a look in the manual.

If not, try as per Phil's post above. Alternatively, save for a wireless flash trigger.


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