# Jungle type chocolat gourami tank



## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

Hello!

I'm planning on rescaping my current 80cm tank.

I was wondering which things is should keep in mind when scaping a jungle aquarium.
What those chocolats need, is a shadowish tank with as less current as possible.

So what about lightning? i have the space for 2 t8 lamps.
Do I go for bright white light? so the plants can grow high, be healthy and hold the light from the fish?

What i have in mind is 2 pieces of spiderwood, some anubias and narrowleave on it.
then some other tall background plants.

I do have co2 with an atomizer system on the pumpoutlet, pH controlled.

First time ever i try to make a shadowrich, well planted scape.
so all information is welcome.

I do not start before i know what i'm up to.

thanks in advance!!!


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## ceg4048 (14 Mar 2013)

Hello,
		 Why not just use dim lights? That way it will always be dim. Plants do not care whether you use bright lights or dim lights. They will grow to the same height and will be just as healthy regardless of which you use, except that under dim lights it takes longer. There is a common misconception that aquatic plants require bright lights to be healthy, but the fact is just the opposite.

If you use bright light you will cause a chain reaction that will require you use high flow and high CO2 in order for the plants to be healthy. Since you fish require dim lighting and low current then it would be completely unwise to use bright lights, because that will create more problems than it solves.

Also, I recommend that you do NOT use the pH controller function to manage the CO2 as this also has a tendency to create more problems. Use a steady CO2 injection rate and forget about the pH.

Cheers,


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## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

That is something i didn't know indeed!!

So if u have the right lamps with a good range of coulors, you can dim them. And the only thing is that they will grow slower.
( which is less maintenance )

The pH is very important for the fish, so i prefere pH controlled CO2.

Problem is: my lamps are built in. (Cayman tank)
So i will try to dim them with a dimmer on the "eletrical feeding" evsa's are impossible to putt in.


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## Alastair (14 Mar 2013)

Chocolate gouramis also appreciate floating plants as it seems to give them a sense of security and they like to chill out under them at night time. Good luck with the set up. 
Also the floating plants will help to diffuse the light.


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## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

Hmm yea i guess i can use some riccia as floating plant.
Others are hard to keep at one perticular spot of the surface.

Any idea which lightning? 2 lamps around 6k kelvin?


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## Alastair (14 Mar 2013)

I'd recommend frogbit or hydrocotyle luecocephila as a good floater for them. 
The colour temperature of your lighting is up to you. 6k is a nice colour. I'm using or will be using 4300k on my new tank so it's a bit warmer colour wise


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Mar 2013)

My chocolates hated my co2 set up, unless you have the skills of Amano  its unlikely you will have a low enough flow that the choclates are happy with while using co2.  
I'd suggest to just go low tech and check out Alistairs puddle in his sig if you havent already.
Look forward to following the journal, one of my fav fish!!


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## Alastair (14 Mar 2013)

Agree with Iain on his comments about co2 set up. My choccos never seemed very comfortable in my old high tech tank. Only once they went in my low tech did I see them at their best and zero deaths. In a high tech they'll try to find an area of lowest flow and stick their.


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## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

So what u mean is i should work with easycarbo unstead?

How do you take care of the pH of 6,3 then? I use CO2 to get so low.

I just made an automatic dosingsystem so easycarbo is doable.

Thanks for all the response this far!!!


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Mar 2013)

no need for easy carbo unless you are in a rush...
Choosing a substrate that will alter the ph is the way forward, peat moss etc...  also using alder cones and leaf litter in the filter or in tank works well.
Alistair and BigTom are the guys to give you more details on the effects of different substrates though.


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## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

Everything i learned about plants and scaping has been sunk in a few posts lol!!!

Less light, no CO2 controlled pH, etc

But that is for very highplanted tanks ofc.
I love the chocos and after 15 years in this hobby, its time to give it a try!!! Lol!

I will need a dictionary soon i u guys keep going in this profesional language though lol!!!


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## brrr (14 Mar 2013)

Still, plants need extra carbon and other nutrients.
It can't work entirely without CO2 or carbo, can it?


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## Iain Sutherland (15 Mar 2013)

When using low light the demand for co2 is also very low which comes from having good surface movement, your substrate when using soils, your fish and their poo and from the plants at night when consuming oxygen. 
There are loads of threads around the forum which explain in greater detail, use advanced search for key words, but a good analogy of Clives is to think of the light as the gas pedal in your car and nutrients which includes co2 as the fuel.  Less pressure on the gas pedal means less fuel consumption, stamp on it and you need lots of fuel and often will smash it into some armco AKA algae 



brrr said:


> Everything i learned about plants and scaping has been sunk in a few posts lol!!!


there is lots of misinformation out there, usually to make you spend your hard earned ££.  All the correct answers you need are here and have likely been asked over and over... again the advanced search button is your friend


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## brrr (15 Mar 2013)

Yea i know that about the gaspedal Thingy 

In belgium, soils are realy new and quite uncommon atm...

So yea, i will have to read about them.
But the few people who are using them, seem to love it


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## Alastair (15 Mar 2013)

brrr said:


> Still, plants need extra carbon and other nutrients.
> It can't work entirely without CO2 or carbo, can it?



Yep it can. My last journal ran with no additional co2 and minimal water changes and occasional fert dosing. 
Like iain explained the light is the driving force if it's high you'll need to up the co2 and nutrients to compensate. 
If you have your lighting low then you shouldn't really need additional co2. 
Soils with peat in are ideal for having or keeping a nice low ph. Or one of the specific planting soils like Amazonia by ada which keeps ph very low along with kh.  
Chocolate gouramis are really sensitive and whilst they may do ok in higher ph or gh etc they won't live as long or colour up as much. 
You could also add peat to the filter which will keep ph nice and low but this will tint your water but the gouramis will thank you for this as there natural habitat is like that.


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## brrr (15 Mar 2013)

I am realy starting to like this choco aquarium.
Low tech, check!
Yellow, low kelvin lights: check
Little coloured water due filtering: check
Few water changes: check
Slow growing less trimming of plants: check

I use osmose (dunno if it is the same in  english) water. Which i mix with tapwater (normaly around Gh16 and kh8.) i bring it up to KH 3.
So the soil would last longer if i keep mixing?

U guys made my day!


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2013)

Hi all


Alastair said:


> Chocolate gouramis also appreciate floating plants as it seems to give them a sense of security and they like to chill out under them at night time. Good luck with the set up. Also the floating plants will help to diffuse the light.


_Riccia_ isn't really suitable, You need a plant like _Pistia_ or _Limnobium_ with long branching roots. This tank belongs to a great Polish cichlid breeder "Ruki" and he bred _Apistogramma_ ""Breitbinden" in it.






brrr said:


> Still, plants need extra carbon and other nutrients. It can't work entirely without CO2 or carbo, can it?


Honestly it can. This tank is entirely without fertiliser or added CO2, although I would feed it via the "Duckweed Index", if plant growth was compromised.






brrr said:


> Few water changes:


I change about 10% water a day. I'm not a great fan of no water change, and I'm pretty convinced that small regular water changes are better for fish health. I'd also add some dead leaves, have a look at this. < All the leaves are brown… — Seriously Fish>.

This is a small tank with a pair of Liquorice Gourami (probably P. "Bintan", and definitely both male, I'm still looking for females), I've had them just over a year and they remain healthy. I'd use the same approach for Chocolates, keep BOD and TDS low, frequent small water changes and lots of live food.








Both these tanks are in N. facing windows (3rd tank (behind microscope) has Norman's Lampeye), and have quite high light. Personally I don't care too much about light levels, I just make sure that I have a large amount of plants and low nutrients.





cheers Darrel


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## brrr (15 Mar 2013)

So now i am convinced that it is possible with low tech, I'll go for it!

Still, I am aiming for a well planted tank. Not just wood and some floaters above.

So hydrocotyle will be the main lightdimming plant.

Any plants you guys can recommend?
Java narrow and anubias bouth should do well in the shades...
Anything to cover the ground else then leaves? I will use some leaves though.

I will be using Heteranthera zosterifolia in the background where de hydro doesn't reach.
Further I would love an aponogeton or green lotus as solitaire. I would let the lotus grow all the way up with leaves in all water layers .

Any ideas or warnings?


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## dw1305 (15 Mar 2013)

Hi all,


brrr said:


> So hydrocotyle will be the main lightdimming plant. Any plants you guys can recommend? Java narrow and anubias bouth should do well in the shades... Anything to cover the ground else then leaves? I will use some leaves though.


_Bolbitis heudelotii_ is fine, all mosses, any _Cryptocoryne spp._


brrr said:


> I will be using Heteranthera zosterifolia in the background where de hydro doesn't reach. Further I would love an aponogeton or green lotus as solitaire.


I've grown all of these low tech without any problem, although they need more light than the ferns etc. I use _Ceratopteris thalictroides _a lot as a "fine leaved" plant.

cheers Darrel


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## BigTom (15 Mar 2013)

The following have all done well for me in low tech with zero carbon addition, very infrequent ferts (monthly or even less) and a pond soil and sand substrate -

Microsorum pteropus 'trident', 'mini', 'needle'
Lilleaopsis brasiliensis and mauritania
Eleocharis acicularis
any number of crypt and echinodorus species
Hydrocotyle tripartita and leucocephela (verticillata does OK but doesn't grow much)
Aponogeton crispus
Pellia
various mosses
Bolbitis
Anubias
Cyperus helferi
Blyxa japnoica
Ammania 'bonsai'
Hygrophila pinnitifada
Ceratopsis thalictroides

And thats just what I've tried, I'm sure there are any number of stems that will also do well.

They seem to be doing ok...


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