# Humble beginnings T12 lighting



## Soilwork (30 Oct 2020)

Is anyone old enough to remember the T12 fluorescent lighting?  Did anyone struggle to grow common plants under this lighting?  Seems the PAR would be quite low.  Carpeting plants aside I wonder if we really need so much PAR these days and in my experience subdued lighting seems to enhance fish, snail and shrimp activity and behaviour.

Just curious.


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## Wolf6 (30 Oct 2020)

I had a 120cm tank with 3 of those tubes and even that was barely enough for many plants. Then again, fertilisers for aquatic plants were unknown to teenage me, and CO2 was something unknown to me as well (no idea if it was really around back in those pre-internet days) so the plants had a harder time anyways. I rarely had algae though, except for a few times I got BGA briefly. Didnt change water much either, which might have been the cause. I did have baked clay in my soil (plain dark grit) so the plants werent completely without help, and they grew, just many not as bushy as I wanted them to. I had a few carpets using dwarf sag and one using believe it or not elatine hydropiper, which I read is considered hard/high light but grew fine in my med/low light/no fert/no co2 situation. 
I do agree that fish and other critters in the tank usually prefer a more shaded/dappled shaded tank, and I see many tanks (beautiful tanks!) that make me question fish happiness as its high light and just low plants, but I think everyone here has the wellbeing of their fish in mind so its probably not a big deal, they probably get used to the openness. Also important: We as a species have become more and more impatient, and want faster and faster results, and that can be more easily achieved with higher lights, CO2 and high ferts.


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## Wolf6 (30 Oct 2020)

Thats also why I love and hate gardening: I cant 'cheat' faster results, nothing is going to make them grow faster then they already do, I can only add enough ferts to keep them growing at the right pace. And if I decide to move stuff I'll have to wait at least a year to see if the choice was right. But on the bright side, no amount of messing in my garden can cause algae blooms there  In other words, I cant help but have patience there, which is a good thing. But if tomorrow they bring out 'garden grow lights' and 'garden miracle co2' I'd be very very tempted...


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## Big G (30 Oct 2020)

Wolf6 said:


> Thats also why I love and hate gardening: I cant 'cheat' faster results, nothing is going to make them grow faster then they already do, I can only add enough ferts to keep them growing at the right pace. And if I decide to move stuff I'll have to wait at least a year to see if the choice was right. But on the bright side, no amount of messing in my garden can cause algae blooms there  In other words, I cant help but have patience there, which is a good thing. But if tomorrow they bring out 'garden grow lights' and 'garden miracle co2' I'd be very very tempted...


No algae but we do get weeds in the garden. I’m trying to look upon aquascaping as simply a miniature form of water gardening in many respects.
Yes, t12 bulbs, murky tanks with undergravel filters, Eheim gear being the unaffordable and unchallenged pinnacle of excellence ....to a 13yr old, plastic plants, gravel substrates, community or species tanks, Red Tailed Sharks and Tiger Loaches, everyone wanting Piranha,  Vallis melting in the corner somewhere, slate caves, massive seperate ballasts for the lights with starters that blew once a month and hummed, rotting condensation soaked sheet metal hoods and plastic corrugated plastic cover glass’, stick-on dodgy cable tidies with a rubbish sprung switch at either end, dodgy silicon joints and those tanks with oversized and unloved huge Oscars and Pacu’s lurking in leaky tanks at the back of the fish shop. A wall of intriguing, colourful packets and boxes behind the counter containing who-knew-what exciting product to fix who-knows-what problem.
Seemingly every other fish name containing Axelrod/Axelrodi in it. Books on a stand in the corner of the shop about fishkeeping. Your mates uncle Dave that blew the monthly family budget on maintaining a ten foot Cichlid tank that no one liked including the Cichlids. Ah yes, the 80’s.

Bg


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## Soilwork (30 Oct 2020)

Big G said:


> No algae but we do get weeds in the garden. I’m trying to look upon aquascaping as simply a miniature form of water gardening in many respects.
> Yes, t12 bulbs, murky tanks with undergravel filters, Eheim gear being the unaffordable and unchallenged pinnacle of excellence ....to a 13yr old, plastic plants, gravel substrates, community or species tanks, Red Tailed Sharks and Tiger Loaches, everyone wanting Piranha,  Vallis melting in the corner somewhere, slate caves, massive seperate ballasts for the lights with starters that blew once a month and hummed, rotting condensation soaked sheet metal hoods and plastic corrugated plastic cover glass’, stick-on dodgy cable tidies with a rubbish sprung switch at either end, dodgy silicon joints and those tanks with oversized and unloved huge Oscars and Pacu’s lurking in leaky tanks at the back of the fish shop. A wall of intriguing, colourful packets and boxes behind the counter containing who-knew-what exciting product to fix who-knows-what problem.
> Seemingly every other fish name containing Axelrod/Axelrodi in it. Books on a stand in the corner of the shop about fishkeeping. Your mates uncle Dave that blew the monthly family budget on maintaining a ten foot Cichlid tank that no one liked including the Cichlids. Ah yes, the 80’s.
> 
> Bg



Doesn't sound like much has changed. Granted I couldn’t buy an undergravel filter when I went in to a shop near me recently.

‘can I ask why you want to use an undergravel’ they asked.  ‘There’s a reason nobody uses them anymore’

‘Well yes,  they require no service parts and practically last forever.  Of course they are going to be phased out’ I thought that much at least but couldn’t be bothered with the hassle.


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## PARAGUAY (30 Oct 2020)

I think in the 80s most shops had a lot of these  and then as t8 came they become the bees knees and gro_lux tubes  Amano shook things up with metal haldes and t5 became the new must haves and t5 alternative tubes. Sometime in the future they will be saying "remember the old twinstar or ADA rgb s" The way in just a few years LEDs have dominated the market  but is it more to do with marketing like " makes the reds pop" doesn't mean the plants are any healthier than a economical t8 or t5 but better to look from our view maybe? Check out Rhonda Wilson's old website of her fish house low energy tanks lit with just shop light tubes plants bursting with health and l think basic or no filters
.


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## sparkyweasel (30 Oct 2020)

Soilwork said:


> Is anyone old enough to remember the T12 fluorescent lighting?


I skipped those and stuck with light bulbs.  
Only stopped using bulbs over some of my tanks when I couldn't get them any more.
I did get some T8s in the 90s, still using those. 
Mostly using LEDs now.
Plants don't seem to mind what equipment you use to provide the light, just want to get enough of it.


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## Soilwork (31 Oct 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> I skipped those and stuck with light bulbs.
> Only stopped using bulbs over some of my tanks when I couldn't get them any more.
> I did get some T8s in the 90s, still using those.
> Mostly using LEDs now.
> Plants don't seem to mind what equipment you use to provide the light, just want to get enough of it.


How did your plant’s do under those lights?


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## sparkyweasel (31 Oct 2020)

They grew fine, but they were old-established aquarium species. The only carpets were Hairgrass and small Crypts.
Any that grew above the water would look good between the bulbs, but get burnt where they were too close. 
Plants that used to grow well under incandescent bulbs include;
Swords, various Crypts, Cabomba, Baxopa, Ludwigia, Ambulia, Najas, Nymphaea, Spatterdock, Anubias, Fontinalis, Blyxa, Vallis, Sagittaria, Hygrophila, Alternanthera, Water Wisteria, Samolus, Pistia, Japanese Rush, Hairgrass, Lagenandra (not meeboldi red), Hornwort, Didiplis, Bolbitis, Indian Fern, Myriophyllum, Utricularia, Marsilea, Aponogetons. Probably more I can't think of off the top of my head.


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## Magoo (31 Oct 2020)

When I started the hobby(it was in the previous millennium), their was just no other options but T12's. My first tank, a 300L was lit by 3x40w bulbs. I did manage to grow Swords, Crypts, Ludwigia repens, Water wisteria and of course Vals. Hairgrass was a real struggle, I tried several times but just gave up after awhile. T8's  were next but was pretty much the same as T12's. The real game-changer for me were the Compact Fluorescent bulbs. With those things I was able to grow a much more diversified list of plants. I also went through the phase of Over Driving Normal Output T8's using 55W electronic ballasts.


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## Soilwork (1 Nov 2020)

Magoo said:


> When I started the hobby(it was in the previous millennium), their was just no other options but T12's. My first tank, a 300L was lit by 3x40w bulbs. I did manage to grow Swords, Crypts, Ludwigia repens, Water wisteria and of course Vals. Hairgrass was a real struggle, I tried several times but just gave up after awhile. T8's  were next but was pretty much the same as T12's. The real game-changer for me were the Compact Fluorescent bulbs. With those things I was able to grow a much more diversified list of plants. I also went through the phase of Over Driving Normal Output T8's using 55W electronic ballasts.



Did you try the all the diversified plants that grew under the CFL under the T12s/8s?


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## Magoo (1 Nov 2020)

Soilwork said:


> Did you try the all the diversified plants that grew under the CFL under the T12s/8s?


I did try but most of them really struggled under the regular T8/12's. They did better with the Overdriven NO T8's though. The aquarium had 4 Osram Daylight T8's.


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## Soilwork (1 Nov 2020)

Magoo said:


> I did try but most of them really struggled under the regular T8/12's. They did better with the Overdriven NO T8's though. The aquarium had 4 Osram Daylight T8's.



Thanks for the info


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