# I thought this was against the law?



## Garuf (16 Mar 2008)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tropical-fish-Mix ... dZViewItem


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## nickyc (16 Mar 2008)

Ebay law says...

"_Live Animals
Live animals or pets other than the exceptions noted here, may not be listed on eBay. The sales of the following items are permitted, provided that the seller guarantees in the listing that the animals will be packaged safely and posted via next day delivery.

Aquarium or pond fish, snails or similar creatures.

Lobsters, crabs, shellfish and other similar creatures that are live when sold but intended for human consumption.

Live insects, crickets and worms used as bait or feeder food for pets.

In addition, eBay permits the sale of hatching eggs provided the seller offers domestic-only shipping within the UK_."

Not right though.  What is he doing to the colour?


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## Garuf (16 Mar 2008)

The colour is what I was on about, I was certain I'd read dyed fish are now against the law.


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## fishgeek (16 Mar 2008)

dyed fish are not restricted in the uk, some good(in my opinion) organisations are pushing for a movement against it, it seems education of the public is difficult though

genetically modified fish are illegal in the uk, ie the glo fish with phosphorescent gene's in danios


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## bugs (16 Mar 2008)

I just visited their web site...

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - my eyes..........


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## Themuleous (16 Mar 2008)

Yeh not against the law yet.  You could probably do them for inhumane treatment of an animal but as these fish were probably coloured outside the UK there is nothing you can do.  Except never shop in the place again.

Check the shop against the PFK dyed fish campaign as well.  If they are listed I'm sure PFK would like to know they aren't sticking to it.

Sam


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## Lisa_Perry75 (17 Mar 2008)

Oh      my       god. I feel seasick from that page, and I don't even get seasick!


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## Garuf (17 Mar 2008)

Such a shame isn't it


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## Lisa_Perry75 (17 Mar 2008)

I have emailed the chap asking him where the fish come from and how he gets to choose what colours the fish are. He may not reply. You never know. I know in this day and age it's terrible.

I really hate the "line-breeding" aka in-breeding of fish to make ugly cast-offs of nature. Like pearlscales. I just feel sorry for the fish. Why do some humans think it's their god given right to do whatever they please to whomever they please?

My rant is over, soz about that.


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## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> I really hate the "line-breeding" aka in-breeding of fish to make ugly cast-offs of nature. Like pearlscales. I just feel sorry for the fish. Why do some humans think it's their god given right to do whatever they please to whomever they please?
> 
> My rant is over, soz about that.



I know where you're coming from here but without artifical selection we wouldn't have many food items, or enough for everyone to eat (in fact more than enough).  Humans don't seem to be able to leave things alone and not meddle with the  things we keep and breed.

And unless you keep wild fish only, then every fish you own has been selected.  It may be that it has just been selected for 'survivability', but fish farms will only breed from the best coloured and fastest growing fish so their stock is the 'best' and this leads, over generations to selection of more aggressive feeders and brighter colours, if those mutations occur.  In most cases these fish will be very close in colour and form to the wild stock, but they couldn't be released back into the wild very successfully as there are different selective pressures there.  Most would die.  

The progression of this selection, decades down the line, is fancy goldfish and, whether you like them or not, they have simply been selected over generations by careful selection of the 'best' stock and breeding them together.  Just look at the long finned and 'balloon' fish being bred now.  I don't like them, but IMO they are VERY different to the tattooed, mutilated and dyed fish where an ordinary fish had been subjected to procedures just to sell them.

As humans today we also seem very quick to denounce terms like 'selection' and 'gene manipulation' like they are some overbearing evil that will carry us away! (Not saying that's you Lisa, but just read the newspaper after every story on the lastest advance in cloning and you must know what I mean?)  We have selected organisms ever since we became farmers and started growing wheat and without artficial selection we'd probably still be hunter-gatherers and we wouldn't have time to keep fish...

My rant over now!


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## aaronnorth (17 Mar 2008)

New ebayer aswell, how about we all send him an email?

Lisa, what email did you send him? We could use the same one just to get on his/ her nerves


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## Lisa_Perry75 (17 Mar 2008)

I just asked what I said and thats it.

Eds - Ah yes, I didn't really think of it that way. I can't stand the way cloning/gene manipulation is sensationalised to be this awful thing humans have invented. Viruses have been using the method for millions of years, yet due to the media making such a hoo haa it restricts the research that can be done, meaning it is harder to find solutions to problems like cancer.

I do love a good debate, I hope I haven't come across as agressive or too negative. It is very difficult with a 2d media such as this to make sure your intentions come across.


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## Themuleous (17 Mar 2008)

Just to add that without line breeding, we'd not have a single dog or cat breed, save for the few wild types.  I do however think when they are breed fish to be so malformed as to almost not be able to swim, its going a bit far. 

Sam


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## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> I just asked what I said and thats it.
> 
> Eds - Ah yes, I didn't really think of it that way. I can't stand the way cloning/gene manipulation is sensationalised to be this awful thing humans have invented. Viruses have been using the method for millions of years, yet due to the media making such a hoo haa it restricts the research that can be done, meaning it is harder to find solutions to problems like cancer.
> 
> I do love a good debate, I hope I haven't come across as agressive or too negative. It is very difficult with a 2d media such as this to make sure your intentions come across.



Not at all mate, and I hope that I didn't seem to preachy either.


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## Lisa_Perry75 (17 Mar 2008)

No no, some very good points you made


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## bugs (17 Mar 2008)

I'm feelin' it - I'm feeling the lovin'  

Perhaps we could dye the eBayer? Hopefully the most people are more informed about dyed fishes these days and they'll simply not get any business.


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