# How Long Will Shrimp Survive in post?



## AverageWhiteBloke

Had a bit of a disaster with some cherries   I bought 10 off ebay and got them delivered to where I work on next day delivery. I was late getting to work this morning (long story) and just missed the post. The person in the unit next door said they never came to the door and never left anything with them not even posted a card to say there was a parcel. I emailed the seller who said they were posted yesterday and everybody else had got theirs. I rang my local sorting office who said there were no parcels left there for me but the driver may have took it back to their depot in the next town and deliver it again in the morning. I tried ringing them but it was already shut   

I guess now if they do get here in the morning they've already spent 2 nights in whatever they were sent in and I'm picturing it being pretty cold in the depot over night. How robust are they, could they still be ok in the morning and do I have an argument with royal mail for not leaving a card?

Not sure how they were labelled up from the sender or if you are allowed to send live stock through the post.


----------



## basil

Providing you can get them tomorrow they should be just fine. Cherries are pretty hardy. They will be pale when you get them through stress. Take plenty of time to acclimatise them to ensure you don't temperature shock them.


----------



## Matt Warner

Hi, I would say there is a 50/50 chance of them being ok. If they are all alive then I would spend extra time acclimatising them as I could imagine they will be quite stressed. Cherries are pretty tough but not sure if they will survive two cold nights in a row but I guess if they've been packed well then they won't get quite as cold.
I would have thought that royal mail would of put a card through the door I've never known them not do this. I think you are allowed to send inverts through the post but not fish, I could be wrong though. 
I hope they arrive with you in the morning safely!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Yeah I really hope they are ok, not from a money spent point of view I just feel guilty about not making it this morning. Seems odd the royal mail didn't leave a card. If the seller had emailed me a bit sooner I could have got down and checked. Probably should have done it anyway   never mind can't live in should have could have land. There is a chance they might not have made the morning post. They were coming from surrey and I live about as far north as it gets but I guess either way they still left on Monday so nothing gained there. Rest assured if they make it I will be acclimatising them one drop at a time even if it takes all day.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

They should be fine. What about the tracking number? If there was an attempt of delivery it would show it.
Special rm delivery 1in 100 is not next day from my experience. I have never complained, you would not also once you see the form to fill in


----------



## foxfish

The postman left a packet of cherry red shrimps in my shed without informing us & after 6 days of trying to track down where they were in the postal system I found them - in my shed!
Of the 20 ordered, 19 still lived & I still have the descendants now.
This happened last December!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys   sitting now waiting like an A&E unit with my lock up front door open. Warmed the room up bucket and airline tube at the ready. I did a 50% water change yesterday and the tanks been cycling for about 2 months.
I'll keep ya'll posted.


----------



## Matt Warner

Hope they all turn up and are all ok. I'm sure they will be.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Still no sign of the post yet! I actually found myself thinking to myself a few mins ago, come on shrimp you can make it your nearly there!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

They're here, didn't expect them coming like this but they are all moving at least   

shrimp2 by AWB70, on Flickr


shrimp by AWB70, on Flickr

The postman said they didn't come yesterday so my conscience is clear. Expected them in a bigger container so I will have to keep topping this up then transfer them to a jug or something before putting in the tank I guess.


----------



## basil

Glad they landed ok for you - nothing worse than not knowing. A couple of years ago i bought about £100 worth of shrimp from Germany on a 2-3 day courier service. Was pacing the room waiting for the delivery, and they were just fine!

The shrimp do look pale, but they should colour up after a few days once settled in the tank.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Cheers, I gradually introduced them to the water over 3or4 hours before dumping them in the tank. I didn't see any of them for a while then on mass they all started running about wild as if they were all waiting for the other   



They've already got some colour in their faces. Happy man again, thanks all. 8) Just need some moss for them to play in now.


----------



## b1zbaz

Are these shrimp always that active


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Not 100% sure, I have seen videos of them after a water change when food gets added and they do go rather wild. If I'd spent two nights in the pitch black and freezing cold then put into a tropical warm tank with plenty of plants I think I would be running round all excited


----------



## foxfish

They can get a bit erratic like that when under stress but, normally they will just move around in a relaxed manner.
Cherry shrimps are really easy going, easy to breed & great additions for a planted tank.
Many of the more colourful shrimps for sale are not necessarily difficult to keep but, you can see by the amount of reported deaths on this forum that, they are also very easy to kill!
I have lost my fair share of CRS & I now keep them in a dedicated tank however my cherry shrimps just keep going through thick & thin. My original stocking have produced hundreds of descendants that I have passed on to friends & they in turn have had great success.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Ok ill keep an eye on them today and see if they calm down a bit. Hopefully they were a bit excitable just getting used to the water. I run my tanks at 26 degrees. I keep both the same as the intention is to use my little 5 gall shrimp tank to breed stock and grow them big enough to put in my 30 gall at home when they're big enough to escape predation from the fish in there. 
Perhaps the seller kept them at lower temp and following a couple of cold nights it may be the highest temp they have ever experienced in their lives. I also add half a mil of EC to their tank and they might not have tasted that before. I did have some amanos in my big tank for a couple of years and they seemed ok at them temps but they were full adults when I got them.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Looks like either 2 molts or dead ones in the tank when the lights cam on today. I have been here before though and they've turned up. Not sure how likely it would be for them to come from a stressful couple of days and molt straight away? Is there actually anyway of telling the difference between a molt and a corpse? The Amanos did this a few times but they were a lot bigger.
Other than that the ones I can see seemed to have settled down a lot.


----------



## Ady34

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Looks like either 2 molts or dead ones in the tank when the lights cam on today. I have been here before though and they've turned up. Not sure how likely it would be for them to come from a stressful couple of days and molt straight away? Is there actually anyway of telling the difference between a molt and a corpse? The Amanos did this a few times but they were a lot bigger.
> Other than that the ones I can see seemed to have settled down a lot.



Chances are they are moults, especially in the warmer water which speeds up growth.
I recently added 10 cherry shrimp to my tank and there were moults the next day too....i know that as i counted all the shrimp


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

> Chances are they are moults, especially in the warmer water which speeds up growth.


I hope your right mate.   Been trying to count up myself, so far I have seen a definite 6 but I have a cave with plant roots growing all over it so some could be kicking about in there especially if they have molted. I remember my amanos used to do a disappearing act when they were molting. 
Got up this morning and checked in my fish stuff cabinet and realised I didn't have any food for them   not much along the lines of a LFS round here other than commoner garden stuff but managed to get hold of some Hikari Crab cuisine from a local shop. Put 2 pellets in and they seem to be tucking into it. Apologies for the phone picture quality.

shrimp feeding by AWB70, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

look like theyre enjoying it.....i havnt fed my CRS since i got them and theyre doing great, saving me a fortune!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

That's the beauty of these creatures, lots of fun to watch. Bare minimum setup, I actually didn't spend anything I had all the bits lying around and they don't mind me being away for a few days working. When I bred fish one missed feed would wipe them out as their stomachs were so small. On a strict rule of one tank at home with the missus but I can keep my shrimp at work in my office   

This is my current home project...

new setup by AWB70, on Flickr

It did look like this before I moved house and stripped it down.

Before strip down by AWB70, on Flickr

I know, out of control eh   No-scaping what so ever

The plants and rock for my shrimp tank came from there so total spend so far £12.00 on the shrimp and £3.00 on the food today.

shrimp tank by AWB70, on Flickr


----------



## Matt Warner

When I first got my yellow shrimp, a couple of them molted on the day I got them. I think this is pretty normal behaviour. I hope your shrimp are doing well and glad they arrived safely.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Thanks, no doubt I'll be coming back here regular on my new hobby of shrimping   I might even journal my new house tank now that I think about it. It's only a couple of month old and still a work in progress. Never actually did a journal before! Maybe I can get some advice from the ppl in here on best way to get some shape about it and stop it turning into the duck pond my old tank was.   

Most of all looking forward to watching my critters develop and possibly even breed! Two of my favourite parts of the hobby is creating life in my tanks and the other is having a plant that is barely alive and watch it take over the tank. Two sure signs that you're doing something right.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Seen seven 7 to day with a debatable 8   Maybe wasn't such a good idea having this tank at work, I've spent all the time since the light came on counting shrimp   It's a bit like queenie with the playing cards. Soon as you see one it moves to where you last seen another. Then they disappear behind a rock and what looks like a different one comes out the other side.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

These boys would give easy carbo a run for its money. Very effective algae control. Check out the picture of the stone compared to the previous pic. Stripped it right down in only a few days.


IMG-20121015-00083 by AWB70, on Flickr


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Found one of my largest berried up females dead this morning   not sure what's went on there. I managed to count 7 still about so with the dead one that would have been 8 so a possibility that the initial 2 moults I thought I'd seen were also corpses. Difference was this corpse was still slightly pink and still had the eggs on so pretty sure it wasn't moult.

I live in hope, no other shrimp seem stressed or anything so I guess it's just been one of them things.


----------



## SmallestFrog

Sorry to hear that  Keep going though, tank looks good, and shrimp are just amazing to keep.

Also - WOW at the rock. I thought you'd bleached it at first. That's amazing!


----------



## Lindy

When I first got shrimp they died off at a rate of about one every 3-4 days. It turned out my TDS was extremely low at 45 out the tank, Gh was also too low at 3. You should maybe invest in a tds meter, they can be bought quite cheaply on ebay and get an API gh kh test too. If they aren't right you can add GH booster(aquariumplantfood.co.uk), or use RO water to cut your tap water if your tds too high. My shrimp died even after I'd sorted the tds because my gh was too low lacking calcium and magnesium. I'd been adding saltyshrimp to raise the tds but this doesn't contain calcium so didn't completely solve the problem hence the gh booster.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Thanks for the heads up. I add a pinch of equilibrium to the tank when I change the water but it's no exact science. I have KH/GH/Calcium test kits so I'll have a little check just out of curiosity.


----------



## Lindy

Duh, I meant 45 out the tap.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Did some tests this morning, my GH/KH was very low and calcium below 20ppm according to my nutrafin test kits. That wasn't surprising as the tap water round my way is pretty much devoid of minerals. I never get a reading for hardness from the tap. In my main tank it's not a problem as the rocks in there cause my KH to rise and I add mag sulf on every water change. 
I thought adding a pinch in such a small tank like my shrimp tank (5 Gall) would be enough but obviously not. I'll start adding maybe a quarter of teaspoon of equilibrium at water change from now and see where that gets me. For now I'll just keep adding a little bit everyday for rest of week to gradually bring it up.

I think I'll also invest in a tds pen as well, any recommendations?


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

You can pick up a HM TDS pen for £15 from eBay. Just search 'HM TDS Pen'.

If your willing to pay more, get A 'Hanna 98129'. Which measures conductivity, TDS and PH.

There's an auction on one on eBay now,
Just seach  for it on eBay, expect to pay <£50 for a second hand one though.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Thanks I will look into it. I also have a Hannah PH test meter, bit of an ornament at the moment I could never get a stable reading and after a while thought how much do I need to know the PH   It also needed calibrated which sort of defeated the purpose of having the PH meter. I got it to save on test ph test kits but still needed one for my drop checker then need calibration fluid for the pen. I think the batteries may need changed in it which could prevent readings fluctuating so wildly. I had a theory that I could use my 4dkh solution to calibrate it as this should be 7.0 or neutral ph but not sure how effective that would be. So anyway back to TDS   do these also need calibrated at some point? Also I'm a bit confused as to what they measure, considering the amount of dissolved salts in the tank how do you know what it is measuring if it is giving you a total which could be made up of different salts?


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

> Just seach for it on eBay, expect to pay <£50 for a second hand one though.



Been doing a bit of searching about pens and calibrating, one youtube video says that the electrode last between 18 and 24 months so buying a second hand one could have risks depending on its age.


----------



## basil

Sorry to throw something else into the mix, but deaths to shrimp freshly introduced to a tank is quite likely to be bacterial related. Drop some almond or dried banana leaf in there to help with this. Loads on eBay from various sellers. Cherries are very tough and I'd be surprised if it was your parameters that were killing them.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Just seach for it on eBay, expect to pay <£50 for a second hand one though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Been doing a bit of searching about pens and calibrating, one youtube video says that the electrode last between 18 and 24 months so buying a second hand one could have risks depending on its age.
Click to expand...


Believe it's got replaceable sensors?
HM do a Decent Ph pen too with replaceable sensors think its called the HM PH-80 ?


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

> Sorry to throw something else into the mix, but deaths to shrimp freshly introduced to a tank is quite likely to be bacterial related. Drop some almond or dried banana leaf in there to help with this. Loads on eBay from various sellers. Cherries are very tough and I'd be surprised if it was your parameters that were killing them.



Thanks for the advice, I've never heard of that before. To be fair I'm not really looking at the water parameters as being responsible for the death which could have had many reasons. More thinking about long term health and the minerals for shell development. If the rest of the shrimp were displaying any signs of stress I would be more concerned about the parameters but so far they all seem fairly happy and eating. 

I was expecting out of the 10 I got with the stress of travelling and change of water conditions combined with this being a fairly new set up some mortalities. If it was to carry on I will have to look a bit deeper into it.

What does the Almond or dried banana leaf do then? New one to me that.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Almond leaves and the like leech antibacterial tannins into the water, they can also bring the Ph down slightly in very soft water.

Generally, it just conditions the water. And people have great success with it. I have both leaves and Teabags in my tank/filter in the CRS tank. 

Often after adding, you'll find a few moults the next day, showing they are partial to the new conditions.
They'll even eat the leaves once it degrades a bit too. Just leave the leaves in there till its just the stem left!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Ahh, a bit like blackwater extract I get it. May be a stupid question but what if I was just to dip a tea bag in there for a while until some colour came running out then took it out?


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

I think it works in a very similar way. But the leaves are that cheap that you may aswell buy either the leaves of Teabags from eBay mate.


----------



## basil

I like to use the full leaves in my tanks. I boil them first to remove any nasties and sterilise before adding to my tanks. Once the leaves have been in for a week or so, the biofilm growth on them is great and the shrimplets in particular love grazing them. As the leaves continue to soften the shrimp then start to eat the leaf itself. Highly recommend them and I have them in all of my shrimp tanks. That and pelia I rate very highly in shrimp tanks.


----------



## basil

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Ahh, a bit like blackwater extract I get it. May be a stupid question but what if I was just to dip a tea bag in there for a while until some colour came running out then took it out?



Black water extract is made from almond / catappa leaf. You can also use catappa bark for a more concentrated solution. Not sure tea would have the same effect, but you could experiment I suppose


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Are we talking about the same thing here when you say tea bags? The same ones to make a cuppa with or are you on about putting the leaves in a fine mesh bag? I was nearly having a brew with my shrimp there 
Ill have a look on eBay. I used to use blackwater extract on some tanks with softwater loving species in. Filtering over peat also has a similar antiseptic effect but sometimes can be hard to control in a small volume tank. Good for preventing eggs from fungusing. I think I've also heard somewhere along the lines about using oak leaves that have been dried out in the oven for adding tannin and a slight browning of the water for acidophiles.


----------



## basil

No bud, not talking PG here! You can get the catappa in tea bags. Personally I like the other benefits from adding a whole leaf. I also use banana leaves as these have same effect as almond but without the yellow staining of the water. Lots on eBay very cheap too!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Lol yeah just realised looking at them now on eBay. There was a mention of tea bags and after all the diy stuff I read in this forum I assumed it was another cheaper alternative  yeah I think ill get some of those leaves, I could do with some moss as welll aquatic magic have Catappa leaf is that the right stuff? Maybe some xmas moss as well. 
You know what I have a 30 gall high tech on the go but I have more enjoyment with my little shrimp tank! No algae and water changes are no hassle. 
I was watching fish tank kings the other night and on there was a quarantine tank with small tanks offset I think I might have a shot at making a cabinet that holds three small tanks off set at different levels. Hmmm

Right then shrimp, do you want milk and sugar with that


----------



## basil

Plenty of uk sellers on there too, I think those guys are in Asia? Winezita1971 very good and she does moss too


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Checked out Winezita1971 they have some good stuff on there will be ordering some leaves and moss. Some good news on the shrimp front, got back after working away for four days to give them a good feed and just happened to notice something flying past in the flow and thought it looked like it was wriggling. Closer inspection the tanks full of young uns   Break out the cigars


----------



## basil

Congrats on the babies - most satisfying and true testament that you got the tank right!


----------



## basil

Also a good idea to get some shrimplet (baby shrimp) food. Looks like dust, but when added to the tank you can be sure that the shrimplets are finding it. Really does improve survival rate of young shrimp, and a pack lasts for ages and ages!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

I will do mate where's best place to get it? The majority of the babies seem to all be on the white rock cleaning that up with a few on the glass. I noticed last night there were 2 or 3 on a little piece of algae wafer I put in for the grown ups so they already recognise some grub. Probably just imitating the older ones.


----------



## basil

Loads on eBay too - take your pick but I've used mosura and also genchem. Both very good, genchem a little cheaper though


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

My bambinos, you can just about make them out with my shaky mobile.


----------



## basil

Thanks for sharing. 2 berried and another with saddle - looks like you'll have more shrimplets in the next few weeks!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Out of the original 10 I bought I have only counted 7 visible at one time, that's not to say there may be a couple I can't see. At least 4 of them seem to be berried females at the minute. What's with saddle?


----------



## basil

The saddle are the eggs, but in the unfertilised state. When she next moults she will likely mate, the fertilised eggs then drop to the undercarriage area which is when they are considered berried. Approx 4 weeks from first berried to blast off with new shrimplets


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Ahh cool, I'm surprised you can make that out from the video.


----------



## basil

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Ahh cool, I'm surprised you can make that out from the video.



The yellow / green triangle directly behind the neck of the shrimp is the egg saddle. Quite visible and varies from blue/green in colour to yellow/orange in cherries. A water change usually encourages a moult which in turn means sexy time for the shrimp. You can normally see when a female has moulted and is ready when you see the males frantically swimming / whirling around the tank.......love sick male shrimp lookin for the same girl!!!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

I was just doing some research on ppm hardness for shrimp and came across people using oak leaves in the tank. Do they do the same thing as tea leaves and if so what would you need to do to them before putting them in the tank? There should be a few leaves about now would be cool to make some use of them.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

After searching the board I came across this handy page on leaves courtesy of Garuf. Seems there are a few indigenous species that can be used. Has anybody had any experience with the types of tree mentioned?


----------

