# Shrimp wipe out due to new plants



## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

Hi guys, i recently introduced some plants to my planted aquarium with co2 and ADA soil. Within minutes the shrimps in the tank was behaving strangely being paralyzed and turn in their backs and started to die. The fishes, sae, ottos, Rasbora were doing fine though. 

I have since changed 90 % of water and over dose seachem prime in hopes to contain any heavy metals. I have placed a bag of activated carbon in th tank too. I also added this product called easy filter powder by salty shrimp. It claims to remove pesticides. But still the new shrimps i introduce still dies within a few hours. Any advise how can i ‘clean’ the aquarium? I have read a post here that certain pesticide chemicals may stay in the tank for some time.


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## Aqua360 (16 Feb 2018)

its likely to be copper, lethal to snails (and shrimp), and is used to eradicate snails from plants, best thing to do is either lots of water changes, and remove plants and wash them repeatedly


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## tam (16 Feb 2018)

Polyfilter is meant to absorb copper too and you can get a copper test from JBL/API (don't know how accurate they are but might give you an indication).


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## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

The shrimps might be more sensitive to the snails as I still see a couple snails lurking around the tank. Yeah, I’m not sure if the test kits would be able to pick up traces of copper or not. Might invest in one if I’m still experiencing issues later on. 

I found an old thread that indicate it might be some other chemicals from the plant. 

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/wipe-out.19481/page-5


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## dw1305 (16 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Aqua360 said:


> its likely to be copper, lethal to snails (and shrimp), and is used to eradicate snails from plants, best thing to do is either lots of water changes, and remove plants and wash them repeatedly


It might be copper but the speed of the response makes me think that it is more likely to be an insecticide, a lot of which are very toxic to shrimps. 

It isn't very pleasant reading, but have a look at <"Wipe Out">, on page 5. there is a list of the insecticides that were on/in the plants from SE Asia. 

cheers Darrel


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## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

Thanks for the link Daryl, I did some reading earlier on and the symptoms appears to be the same. 

Thing is my tank has hardscapes, substrates, media and all. I’m worried that the incetcide may linger on in the tank bindin itself to the soil and all. Any thoughts? Feeling a little paranoid. Lol


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## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

Apparently if it’s the insetcides, raising the ph to 8.5 will break down those chemicals. Is there any safe way to do in in an aquarium?


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## X3NiTH (16 Feb 2018)

Use plenty of aeration to agitate as much CO₂ from the water as possible, if this is not enough then you need to start increasing the KH of the water until you reach your desired target (maintaining the aeration to keep CO₂ to a minimum).

If using DIY approach to remineralising KH -

1g of Potassium Bicarbonate in 25L of water will raise the KH by 1.12, it will also add 15.62ppm of Potassium. This would be my preferred salt to do this with, I have taken a tank all the way to 12dKH (degassed pH of 8.9) using this salt alone and the extra Potassium (187.44ppm) was not harmful to the tank inhabitants. I would do this gradually.

1g of Sodium Bicarbonate in 25L of water will raise the KH by 1.34, it will also add 10.95ppm of Sodium. Not my preferred way to increase KH as sodium isn't a plant nutrient, I don't know what ppm of Sodium would be detrimental.

Commercial remineralising salts that add KH can also be used (likely a mix of Potassium And Sodium Bicarbonates).


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## X3NiTH (16 Feb 2018)

Just noticed you're growing Bucephalandra, they don't particularly like change but I can tell you that they tolerate 12dKH and 187ppm of Potassium as the tank I took to 12dKH (from 4dKH) was full of Bucephalandra.


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## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

Thanks xenith for the info with explanation. Sodium bicarbonate would be available to me in the kitchen . I probably could remove the sodium with water changes. If I go with this approach raising the kh, would it affect the plant especially the Bucep I have in the tank? Perhaps I might try increasing in stages rather than all at once. My current kh reading is about 1-2


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## flowerhorn (16 Feb 2018)

X3NiTH said:


> Just noticed you're growing Bucephalandra, they don't particularly like change but I can tell you that they tolerate 12dKH and 187ppm of Potassium as the tank I took to 12dKH (from 4dKH) was full of Bucephalandra.


Ok. Just saw this. I’ll just increase in stages then. Gracias


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## X3NiTH (16 Feb 2018)

This is what Ceg has to say about sodium.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/sodium-and-plants.34801/

The waters where Bucephalandra grow are very pure (I do see you are from Malaysia), an analysis of Karst source river water where they grow showed a conductivity of 40mS and alkalinity of 13.47ppm of CaCO₃ (not accounting for monsoonal variations, this is roughly same as your tap water). The interstitial soils that Bucephalandra grow on has a mean ratio of 4:1 K:Na. How much of that ratio ends up in the water especially around monsoonal flooding I have no idea as I can't find that data. Bucephalandra can tolerate a lot of varying conditions but they can be fussy about it, if you change things gradually over a few hours it should be ok (immediately raising KH by many degrees may cause osmotic shock, it may not, no idea but I wouldn't do it), water changes will bring things back down to normal when you're done, fairly confident that this can be done quickly with Bucephalandra as monsoonal flooding does just this.

I would also remove animal inhabitants from the tank before doing this, they may be ok with the change but I wouldn't risk it especially if they are already in a weakened state among the survivors.


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## alto (16 Feb 2018)

Sorry for your losses 

Like others, I'd also suspect pesticides (rather than copper which would need to be very high to cause such an instantaneous response)

Unfortunately you have no way of knowing what type of pesticide, while some are inactivated by alkaline pH, there are some that are very stable 

As mentioned by Darrel in the linked topic:


> IMIDACLOPRID has low toxicity to fish, but is highly toxic to crustaceans, in conc. as low as 1 ppb for Mysis shrimp. "_Products containing imidacloprid may be very toxic to aquatic invertebrates." "The half-life in water is much greater than 31 days at pH 5, 7 and 9"_. from Kidd & James (1991) _The Agrochemicals Handbook, Third Edition_. Royal Society of Chemistry Information Services, Cambridge, UK.



Like X3NiTH, I'd remove livestock from tank, also any rare plants, before gradually increasing alkalinity - though depending on tank size, I might just completely rescape with new soil etc

Or leave this tank as is, just replacing carbon weekly (note that not all activated carbon is equal, most marine grades are much better (& more expensive) than their freshwater counterpart) & set up a separate shrimp tank

Once shrimp are breeding, I'd transfer a few juveniles (they are often more adaptable - possibly more metabolically acive than adults???) to original tank & see how they fare over several weeks
By this time, tank should be as "recovered" as it's likely to be (asssuming 2-3 months have passed with frequent water changes & fresh carbon)


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## flowerhorn (17 Feb 2018)

Thanks X3NiTH for the word of caution. I will make the changes at my own risk. Shrimps are gone so no concern there. Lol. Fishes appear fine doesn’t seem affected. The Tds reading I get from my Tds pen is at 50-60 ppm. 

Thanks alto. If it wasn’t for the mishap I wouldn’t have posted in this forum and met the wonderful and knowledgeable folks here. There seems to be contradicting remarks on IMIDACLOPRID where I hoped the half life at neutral ph is at 3 hours. Nonetheless if the ph treatment doesn’t work I may just leave out the shrimps until I rescape the tank.


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## Edvet (17 Feb 2018)

I am late to the conversation, but the safest way to remove toxins/pesticides would be adctive charcoal i believe, this should absorb them


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## PARAGUAY (17 Feb 2018)

Far East suppliers of plants are required to treat plants for export to Europe or USA etc, the shrimp fatalities through this  were investigated by Nathan Hill a few years ago in PFK and many plant importers changed to European suppliers eg like, Tropica who guaranteed plants free from chemicals. Suppose it’s a problem when you don’t know the source and new plants are discovered


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