# Trickle filling tank from HMA filter (will it work?)



## discusdan (2 Feb 2013)

I'm currently in the process of setting up my first planted tank, Its 200l and at the moment I've just got the the substrate and large pieces of mopani wood in place with a few stem plants. Its running DIY co2 from a yeast mix and I plan to start dosing EI ferts next week in preparation for the majority of plants.

Once I start dosing ferts and get the plants in I want to do regular large water changes

I'm currently using two 25l containers and a pair of step ladders to siphon water out of the tank and put fresh water back in.
This is a big faff and doing it on a regular basis is going to get very tedious very quickly, also taking out 50% of the water leaves the level very low and I dont want to stress the fish to much when I get them in.

As I want to keep Discus I've read that a lot of people use HMA filters which leads me to this question.

Could I get some 2.5mm diameter filter hose and start a slow siphon into one of the 25 liter containers while at the same time filter water back into the tank directly from a Hma filter?

If I turn the filters off and siphon old water out from one end of the tank and add fresh water at the other end would this work?
It would mean I wouldn't have to use step ladders, the water level should stay roughly the same and water temp wont be effected as much. Once one 25l container is full i can just swap to the next empty one.
The only problem I can see is fresh water might be siphoned out as it mixes?

What do you think, will it work? it would make life a lot easier.


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## krazypara3165 (3 Feb 2013)

It would work, altho a fraction of the water you take out will be some of the good water youve just put in. Have you thought about using a pump? Theres 3000lph in line pond pumps that can be had from ebay for twenty quid. Worth it in the long run as discus love clean water and you could do a water change in minutes.


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## discusdan (3 Feb 2013)

Cheers for the reply Krazy. What would be the set up for using a pump?

Would the pump just replace the out siphon? and I'd still add the water directly from the hma filter?

One reason I thought a siphon would be good is because I could match the flow coming out to the flow going in meaning the water level wouldn't drop.

I presume the pump will take all of the water out in a few minutes then the hma filter will slowly fill the tank back up?


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## Ed Seeley (3 Feb 2013)

You won't be able to balance the water syphon out with the trickle of new water in.  You could trickle the new water in and set up an overflow that will drain out excess water.  You can make one of these using solid pipe set up like this,





Once filled, the loop of pipe over the tank remains full of water and water will trickle out at whatever speed you put new water in at.  Yes you will lose a percentage of new water (and in a well circulating tank it probably won't matter where you put the inlet and outlet as long as they aren't right next to each other) but you could just leave the water trickling in for a bit longer.

What you need to do though is work out the flow rate of the incoming water and turn it off after the required time to put in 50% of the tank's volume.  You can get some timers that shut off after a certain amount of water, like these, Water Metering Shut-Off Valve

If you were to run your waste outlet pipe from the overflow straight into the drain and then attach your HMA to this valve you could just connect it up and leave it!  It will turn itself off once the right amount of water has gone in!


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## discusdan (3 Feb 2013)

cheers for the info that looks like a brilliant idea.

Instead of running the waste directly into a drain could I first put it into 25l containers, once i've filled 4 I know that's roughly 50% and I can turn the hma filter off, This would save me some cash on the auto shut off valve, plus I'm not sure if it would fit the system as I plan to run the hma filter off of the house mains using a self piercing clamp onto the 15mm pipework.

When I do a water change I was planning on turning off the tank filters to stop flow and help minimize fresh water loss, would this be a good idea or would it be better to leave the filters on?


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## Ed Seeley (3 Feb 2013)

discusdan said:


> cheers for the info that looks like a brilliant idea.
> 
> Instead of running the waste directly into a drain could I first put it into 25l containers, once i've filled 4 I know that's roughly 50% and I can turn the hma filter off, This would save me some cash on the auto shut off valve, plus I'm not sure if it would fit the system as I plan to run the hma filter off of the house mains using a self piercing clamp onto the 15mm pipework.
> 
> When I do a water change I was planning on turning off the tank filters to stop flow and help minimize fresh water loss, would this be a good idea or would it be better to leave the filters on?


 
That will work but I guarantee it will only be a matter of time before you overflow the container and spill water everywhere.  Instead of buying the timer you could just work out the flow rate through your HMA and set a kitchen timer to let you know ehn to turn it off.  Much simpler and less chance of disaster.

Turning off the tank's filters won't make much difference IMO.  Water will still circulate and you will still lose some new water.


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## discusdan (3 Feb 2013)

Excellent, sounds like a plan! just got to get the hma filter now 

I'm not too worried about it spilling over i'll be sat next to it the whole time, but like you say an alarm of some sort will add a bit of security.

would regular old plumping pipe be ok for the over flow, any particular diameter?

thanks for all your help its much appreciated.


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## Ed Seeley (3 Feb 2013)

discusdan said:


> would regular old plumping pipe be ok for the over flow, any particular diameter?


 
Ideally I'd use solvent weld pipe (probably the 22mm white overflow pipe as it's cheap and easy to get) but snall diameter push fit will be fine.  All you will need to do is step the rigid pipe down to hosepipe or similar to get to the drain.

Trust me however much you think you'll be watching it something will distract you and you will flood the room!  I've done it twice with the system I use and I was sat next to it one of those times.  I'd definitely just time it and then you'll change the same amount of water anyway without the chance of a flood.

Make sure when you make the overflow that it's rigid enough and the tee piece outlet is at the same height as your water level or it will drop your water level.


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## foxfish (3 Feb 2013)

Another method & one that I use, would be to fit a auto top up valve on the rim of your tank  AUTO SHUT OFF FLOAT VALVE FOR AQUARIUM,RO FILTER, WITH 1/4" PUSHFIT FITTING | eBay & then syphon water from your tank straight down the drain.
The key is to use air line for the syphon as this will allow the HMA to keep up.
An extremely easy & no hassle method....


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## discusdan (3 Feb 2013)

Cheers for the suggestion its given me more food for thought.

Main thing is it can be done and like every thing there's many ways to go about doing it.

using 4mm air line as a syphon was my inital thought as its very slow, probably takes about 20 mins to fill 25l and I could adjust the flow from the hma filter to match.
but I do like the idea of an over flow pipe as it will do the same job and i can remove it once I'm done. biggest problem is I cant permanently attach the hma filter to the tank as it will be on the other side of the room and I cant have pipe going all over the place.


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## foxfish (3 Feb 2013)

You would just need to extend the tube from your mains water filter with the valve attached, clamp the valve in place when required & coil it all back up when finished.
I have a sump with the valve plumed in permanently....


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