# Elodea to help stop BGA



## bigmatt (5 Apr 2010)

Hey all,
I've been struck down with the dreaded BGA!  I'm midway through a 72hr complete blackout to hopefully break the back of it, but having read this article
http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/
I'm thinking about adding some elodea to my tank.  Does anyone have any experence/further evidence to back up the supposed "antibacterial" properties of the plant, or is it just (as i suspect) that it is a very fast grower and helps stabilise tank conditions.
I think the root cause of the problem is a combination of good ole underdosing (after blackout i'll be massively upping my TPN+ dosing to maintain nitrate at 20ppm+) and the natural sunlight that hits my tank.  I can't help this as i simply can't place this tank anywhere else, hence the question about the elodea.
Tank stats are
54l (2ftx1ftx1ft)
36w PL Overtank lighting
Eheim 2234 external filter returning through a custom spraybar - good distribution, all plants "wafting" nicely
Filter  - 1 tray sintered glass, 1 coarse sponge inm middle tray and 1 bag Purigen in top tray to maximise flow (all very mature)
Substrate - JBL Aquabasis Pro+ with playsand top
Plants -  Dwarf Hairgrass, Hairgrass and Rotalia Wallachi, small quantity java moss, java fern and riccia to dress driftwood hardscape
Livestock - 9xHarlequin Rasbora, 4 x Pygmy Corys, several Amano shrimp, approx 12 x Snowball Shrimp
(was) dosing 1ml AE Design Aqua Carbon + 0.7ml TPN+ daily (i know...  )

Hope this is enough info - i look forward to hearing your thoughts as always!
Matt


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## ceg4048 (5 Apr 2010)

That's good old Dusko and his algae article we hashed out in the sticky thread Good Algae Article

Elodea and Egeria all do a great job of ammonia uptake but they are not magic wands, so, as you've surmised, the key is to keep the lighting lower than it has been, and to increase the NO3 levels.

It's a VERY bad idea to think about these plants as being anti-bacterial in this sense, just because BGA is a cyanobacteria.  Egeria and Elodea combat algae by ENCOURAGING the growth of nitrifying bacteria. That is how they help to stabilize the tank. As far as I'm aware, they don't work by attacking cyanobacteria. These are excellent plants to use when setting up a tank but everyone poo-poo's them because they are so "old-school" looking, (kind of like watching an old black and white movie) but they do a heck of a lot better job than wussy Prima Donna plants like HC (which cause nothing but trouble.)

Also, natural sunlight is not correlated with BBA, or any algae for that matter. That only happens when you have too much sunlight, which is no different than having too much of any other kind of light.

Cheers,


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## Ajm200 (6 Apr 2010)

I thought elodea didn't do well at warmer temperatures.  Had about ten stems in my bargain pack last week but threw them out thinking that they'd be no good.


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## bigmatt (6 Apr 2010)

Ajm200 - I believe Elodea is fine at tropical temps (had no probs with it in my other tank at 24c!)

Ceg4048 - Thanks for confirming my thoughts!  Think i might plant up a patch to hide my filter tubing, give a bolder green accent against the rotalia, stabilise the tank chemistry and, perhaps most importantly, give me chance to practice my stem pruning on a cheap and hardy plant! An "old school" pplanted tank sounds like good inspiration...
CHeers!
Matt


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## ceg4048 (7 Apr 2010)

Sounds like pretty good source of inspiration Matt. Did you know that Jakie Chan's inspiration for his movies is exclusively old school Charlie Chaplin movies? I think Charlie was Winston Churchill's favorite as well, so you're in good company.

After pounding down the last two cans of Old Speckled Hen that I managed to smuggle into the country, I started lamenting the end of my stash (I mean, if America is so free why is Boddingtons a four letter word?). Then I started thinking about all this stuff you mentioned about sunlight causing algae. I suddenly flew into an uncontrollable rage (probably induce by withdrawal symptoms.) Who says sunlight causes algae? Was it Moses? Mary Magdeline? NO! I'll tell you who! It was The Matrix telling your brain that sunlight causes algae. So you believed it. Suddenly you became a sunlight hater. 

Remember the character Otto in the movie "A Fish Called Wanda"? Otto thinks that The London Underground is a political movement. Well, that's about how misguided "sunlight causing algae" is.

To combat this I decided to dig into my archives to show you exactly what sunlight does.

Look at this setup which spent it's entire time in a conservatory almost fully exposed to sunlight in addition to the 500 watts of PC lighting. I reckon I easily had an extra 300-400 micromoles from the sunlight streaming in from the top and sides of the conservatory. The tank was virtually sitting outside. This shot was taken in the late afternoon in early Spring. The sun at that time is at the right hand side and so overpowers the artificial lighting that everything gets washed out in yellow light. Despite all that, the tank never suffered BGA or any other malady that the sunlight haters complain about. Why? Because the tank was fed appropriate quantities of nutrients and CO2, along with high flow and careful attention to flow distribution.





The sun was so harsh and caused such extreme contrast at times that it was difficult to take any shots but I did capture a few by using the contrast as a highlight.




Washed out colors give a different perspective to some plants, such as this grove of L. aromatica.




Finally, the intense, overpowering yellow of the afternoon sun can give an outworldly color cast such as with this P. stelleta.




So sunlight haters who fret are worried about the wrong thing. It's the intensity of light and the unrecognized need to compensate by adding sufficient quantities of nutrients/CO2 that is responsible for algal blooms. It has nothing to do with the nature of sunlight itself. There are plenty of algae ridden tanks out there that never see sunlight. All lighting must be balanced by the appropriate levels of nutrients, CO2 and flow/distribution regardless of it's origin or color.

Cheers,


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## flygja (7 Apr 2010)

I have to say, great use of pictures to explain a fact   

And Elodea does ok in warmer water. I come from the tropics and Elodea is a weed in former mining ponds turned lakes. Which is incidentally the reason why I don't like Elodea, its just too common (no offence to those who like it). Pots seem to fly off the shelves in the LFS though..


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## bigmatt (7 Apr 2010)

Stunning explanation of a point that i'm gradually getting ceg!  Having read through your EI tutorial last night i'm going to move from TPN+ to EI dosing as soon as i can get the funds together, and pressurised co2 is on the way next month - big whoop!  I guess if i dose with the max. uptake amounts mentioned in you EI article the sunlight becomes more or less irrelevant! (by jove...i think i've got it!) It's all about "balancing the see-saw" so to speak - if you have a big weight on one end (light), it's not a problem if you have a big weight (nutrients + CO2) on the other end!
Until i've got my CO2 inplace think i'm just going to leave my lights off so the tank only receives natural light, then i can fiddle with my nutrients.  Any rough ideas on how much TPN+ i should start with?
On a completely different note try looking here
http://www.beertravelers.com/indexes/br ... orida.html

And Boddingtons is a four letter word.  In Yorkshire.  Now Timothy Taylor on the other hand....
THanks for the help!
Matt


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## bigmatt (7 Apr 2010)

And i've just uncovered my tank from its 72hr blackout and the BGA is completely gone!  Amazing - it's like witchcraft!  And my livestock seem none the worse for it which is far, far more important than any silly algae.  Planted a patch of Elodea and another plant (which i'll get round to identifying but does well in my other tank under low lighting) to hopefully stabilise the tank chemistry.  Thinking of dosing TPN+ at 5ml/day for a couple of weeks to see how it gets on.  If i've understood all the ferts advice basically it's very, very hard to OD, even with shrimp.  So i need to be looking for improved plant health, no further development of BGA (or other algae) whilst still monitoring my livestock for their health.  
Thanks again,
Matt


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## plantbrain (7 Apr 2010)

Simple, your goal is to grow healthy plants, so focus there, give them what they need and the rest is a non issue for the most part.

If you do not focus on that goal, no algae management method will work because it just coming back and a new species that's harder to kill often replaces it.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## a1Matt (7 Apr 2010)

bigmatt said:
			
		

> Now Timothy Taylor on the other hand....




You can't beat a pint of landlord! mmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Very nice.


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## Ajm200 (7 Apr 2010)

Sorry totally off topic    Have you tried Publix.  In Orlando they have aisles just for us Brits and stock a few British ales or at least they did a few years ago.  Don't even know if they are in Miami.


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## ceg4048 (7 Apr 2010)

bigmatt said:
			
		

> On a completely different note try looking here
> http://www.beertravelers.com/indexes/br ... orida.html
> 
> And Boddingtons is a four letter word.  In Yorkshire.  Now Timothy Taylor on the other hand....


BRILLIANT! Couple of options there. I'm off to see the wizard.....



			
				Ajm200 said:
			
		

> Have you tried Publix.  In Orlando they have aisles just for us Brits and stock a few British ales or at least they did a few years ago.  Don't even know if they are in Miami.


Yeah, thanks, Publix are down here, but basically are rubbish. It must be a Disneyworld connection up there in Orlando. Only the intrepid Brits are interested in trekking this far down. I reckon most are afraid of getting involved in another missile crisis (Cuba's only 90 miles away).  

Cheers,


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## Garuf (7 Apr 2010)

I prefer hobgoblin over anything else, and doombar over that. Have you been to beer-ritz in Headingly? That place is brilliant.


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## bigmatt (1 May 2010)

Quick update - Cut my lights to 2 hours on an evening (just for tank viewing really), upped my TPN+ to 5ml/day and plant growth took off!   Just added CO2 a couple of days ago (and upped lighting appropriately!) so i'm sure i'll get some more probs, but jsut thought i'd let everyone know that their advice paid off and worked brilliantly.
Thanks again all!
Matt


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