# Twilight LED or ATI T5's. advice needed



## Lauris (6 Jul 2015)

hi!

Looking forward to upgrade my light system in current tank.
Should be programmable and dimmable. Can't really jump
on very expensive units. Maybe anyone here has experience
with Twilight? or maybe can someone look into specs and
read out some pros/cons from there?

http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Aquarium-lighting/p/sm/1117284939.htm#1117284939

Can't find much of reviews online.

On the other hand I have a choice of T5 Unit (ATI Sunpower dimmable with 6 T5's)
http://www.atinorthamerica.com/sunpower_dimmable.php?tabbedtabs=0


These both units cost pretty much same, just many goes to LED nowadays..

Should I?

Many thanks in advance


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## ian_m (6 Jul 2015)

I would steer clear of the first one as China, LED and quality & reliability are not known to go together in the same sentence. May be different of course, you could try and let us know.

The second ones are from a known manufacturer and available in UK along with guarantee and support.


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## Mark D (6 Jul 2015)

not got any experience with those, but I am in the middle of going from T5s to Aquaray Grobeams.

I have a Rio 400 and the plan is to use 6 Grobeam 600's plus 2 Fiji blue Aquaray 600 (these are on the moonlight channel for night viewing) with a smart controller. I have found that 2 Grobeams is not far off the output of 54W T5s without reflectors and the modular nature has allowed for a staged replacement.

So it depends how much you need for your tank. The Smart Controller can handle 8 600's on 4 channels, there is a cheaper 8 port controller that only has 2 channels (6 ports on channel 1) and a 2 port 2 channel version.

http://aquaraylighting.co.uk/


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## alto (7 Jul 2015)

Note that with the ATI unit, one power cord operates 2 lamps (find out which 2!) while the other cord operates the remaining lamps.
Compare your tank width vs the fixture, & imagine where the 2 vs 4 lamps will be across the width of your tank.
Which (if any) bulbs are included with the fixture?
Is the fixture silent when dimmed? you may want to contact ATI tech support directly to confirm this. Also effect of dimming on lamp/fixture life.


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

Thanks for response..
I see ATi the as one option if i go T5's

But Still researching on leds..
My tank is 60cm wide and 40cm deep so it is 23x16x16 in
Now I'm looking into Kessil LED and TMC tiles (TMC looks little bit cheaper)

Kessil's 360 tuna sun is quite expensive and it is over my limits
Looking into Kessil 160 Tuna sun

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co....html?osCsid=b0f36ed5080693d24ad39c8ac3afc5a4

Or as an optional..
TMC aquaHabitats Colourplus LED 1000 Tile
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/tmc-aquahabitats-colourplus-led-1000-tile-p-4874.html

Or 
TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima
http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/tmc-grobeam-1500-ultima-p-10653.html

my worry is if it will be enough light for my tank..


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## alto (7 Jul 2015)

I guess one question I have, is what do you not like about your current lighting that has you exploring new light options?


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

atm my unit contains:
Arcadia twin ballast with 2 T5's, Beamswork 1000 LED tile, Fuval spec19 led tile.
I have 3 timers on and just a bunch of ugly cords. I'm trying to simulate sunrise-sunset
effect as much as it allows me. Looks messy in first place, then it takes 3 sockets

meh ..


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## alto (7 Jul 2015)

I was a reluctant convert from T5 to LED - I needed to buy new lighting as the previous unit had failed, I had a compact fluorescent luminaire that was barely used but I just did not like the lamp options, replacements were very expensive, the fans were annoying ... I thought I was going to buy a 90cm T5 luminaire just like my favorite 60cm one ... 
BUT local shops were all LED crazy with only a few T5 options, none stocked a 90cm & I couldn't find any luminaire that offered an even lamp spread for my tank 90cm x 45cm x 50cm

So then I started doing my LED research - rather reluctant as I was not crazy about that disco ripple effect that one can find in sooooo many videos - & seems to be very popular with the marine crowd (who posted most of the very well done videos highlighting the various LED's with great local support - an important consideration after some rather stellar tank/filter & light experiences).

In the end I chose Kessil (Ecotech Radion was the runner up, but I did the Kessils for much lower cost - this seems to vary with location - & they came highly recommended)

I've just got the gooseneck adapters, thought they were rather astonishingly ugly at first, but now I barely notice them - definitely go with a suspension kit if it works with your tank placement (think of where the cords will be running!)

After looking at far too many LED's - as with the T5's, I wanted even light distribution over the length & width of my tank: there are many more options with a 60cm or 120 cm tank (many of the 90cm units were really just slightly stretched 60cm versions with the actual LED's still centred for a 60cm format) - I decided I wanted "tunable" color & intensity, & newer LED technology (a surprising number of manufacturers are offering "made today" fixtures with 5 yr old LED tech).

If you have a still water surface, there is limited "shimmer" from even the point source LED's (Kessil), add enough ripple & you can have a home light show 

I would not put a 360 Tuna(ble) Sun on your tank, as you'll end up running it at quite low intensity - unless you're intending to upgrade your tank in the next year or so, I don't see the benefit
(I'm not convinced that running LEDs at a fraction of their "ON" is the best use of the tech).

For lighting control, I found the independent controllers (more $$) more versatile than any of the on-board versions.

If possible, go look at display tanks with your favorite LED's


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

Mate your input in my threads always is invaluable! Thank you!

So One is to go for Kessil..

now looking at Mr. Teapot tank..
that Radion looks like a nice job too 

http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/radion-xr15-freshwater

this sounds a good option. Max output power is 60w (it looks, like it is quite enough for my setup)
with quite good beam angle.. And as far as I do understand - it has inbuilt controller..
for 200 £ sounds a better deal than Kessil.. Or pretty much same if I go Kessil 160 and
compatible controller..


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## Tim Harrison (7 Jul 2015)

I looked at both the Kessil and Radion for my new shallow scape, both great lighting units...but in the end it was something of a no-brainer. I went with the Radion. It's infinitely more programmable than the Kessil, you just plug it in to your pc (that is just to programme) and away you go. To get the best out of the Kessil it requires an additional programming unit which costs and extra £100. Now it's up and running I definitely made the right decision.


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

+1 to Radion from me.. controls .. Kessil can deliver 6000-9000K ..which is a bit awkward I think..
so Radion does not need extra.. just plug in your PC - set the things you need and ready to go? 
How you find the intensity of light? I have it 18in deep..


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## alto (7 Jul 2015)

Ecotech Len kit - the diagrams show you what to expect for an 80 vs 120 lens (this wider angle lens is "standard" on many LED systems, even when some of the tech support people don't seem to know which lens their system is currently selling with  )

These PAR diagrams are available elsewhere, look for articles by Sanjay Joshi, Ph.D. - he does the most technical analysis I've seen
Also note that some of the manufacturers have information given out to their distributors that is not "generally" available (I saw a couple of these specification sheets at the light specialist shop)


I really want to emphasize that Kessil was a great choice FOR ME  - as with anything aquarium, it's all very individual.

As I recall the "onboard" control is no where near as sophisticated as what's available when you buy the separate controller (the Kessil has manual adjustment of spectra & intensity, but you need  the controller for sunrise/sunset/storms etc) - as I recall, you can look at the marine versions & control options will be the same (as for the freshwater).

Suspended I really liked the Ecotech Radeon, with the on tank mounts I was much less keen.
As Troi mentions, cost is really variable (when I priced out an Ecotech system, it was 40% higher in cost than the Kessil system - I have the controller but haven't got around to setting it up yet )


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## Tim Harrison (7 Jul 2015)

The radion has come down in price (£199.00) and now is pretty comparable with the Kessil http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ecotech-radion-xr15w-freshwater-p-15375.html


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

Troi,

Does it needs something else? I have a rail over top of the tank where I would like to hang it the unit in
So it will go like yours. Does it has the rest of the things I need or I need to get them separately?


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## Tim Harrison (7 Jul 2015)

You'll need a hanging kit which is separate. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ecotech-H...818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aecb49a22 Found this one on eBay...or this is the cheapest I found from a store  https://www.homeleighonline.co.uk/r...ampaign=free&gclid=CLP4qcjCycYCFUj3wgod0c4N3Q

Not sure if it's suitable for a rail tho'.


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

I found this one a little cheaper..
at least they say it is compatible with Radion leds

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giesemann..._DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4198da761d#shpCntId


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## Tim Harrison (7 Jul 2015)

Hi maybe, I looked at this also, but I think the span of the wire attached to the light maybe on the longish side for the Radion. I'm sure it'll look OK, but I was also very impressed with the quality of the Radion suspension kit, it's way better than an Arcadia version, for instance - which I also have.


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## Lauris (7 Jul 2015)

Thank you all for suggestions and great info. The choice has been made. Ordered Radion. Now I need to sort out hanging kit and 120 degree lens as this one comes with 80 degree one as default.

I am planted!


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## Tim Harrison (8 Jul 2015)

I'd wait till you get it before sourcing a 120 (wide angle TIR) degree lens...mine has it fitted as standard not the 80 degree lens. http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion-tir-lenses


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## alto (8 Jul 2015)

Agree with Troi, as I mentioned 120 seems to be the new "standard" lens ... congrats on the decision!
(though I think Troi needs to start doing something with that rock before it animates itself & takes over the world  )


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## Lauris (8 Jul 2015)

cool guys. I will hold back until I will receive the unit. 

just btw.. that rock does rock 

I am planted!


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## Lauris (17 Jul 2015)

Ecotech Radion xr15tw Arrived 2 days ago. First impressions not bad at all. Even it has its shade areas and that set a doubts to me on first when installed, but  plants did appreciate it on first full day cycle, delivering more pearling than with my old light suspension even in shade areas. Excellent on controls. just love it. Still playing around with spectrum and day cycle. Will do some review on my tank journal this weekend. 

Thanks to all involved in my choice. So far I think I did chose the best for the budget I had

I am planted!


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