# EI calculator



## zanguli-ya-zamba (20 Nov 2012)

Hi guys 
I have a 70 G tank and I have some problems in making my macro solution. I have different result of quantity in Grams with different calculator ( jame's, the nutrient company and yet an other nutrient calculator) 
Can some one help me please ? 
I would like to make a batch for a month for my 70G tank with 50% WC a week. 
If I am asking that it s because I have had some issue with the last batch 

Thanks a lot
Regards
Zanguli


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## REDSTEVEO (20 Nov 2012)

I can feel a Clive moment coming on!! Lets get ready to Rrrrrrumble!

I had the same issue when I used the different calculators so I stuck with Clive's recipe for a 20 gallon tank and doubled it to work out what I need for a 40 gallon tank.

Personally I would just follow Clive's NPK recipe for a 20 gallon tank and multiply it by 4 to give you the recipe for an 80 gallon tank. I know yours is only a 70 gallon tank but as Clive says it is "Estimative" just like the spoon size heaped or flat, it makes no difference just be consistent.  

Cheers,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (20 Nov 2012)

Hello,
        It does not really matter that there are differences. If you had problems it cannot be because of these differences and so you need to look elsewhere for the root cause. All the different recipes will accomplish the same thing. Please review the thread EI dosing calculator - are UKAPS guidelines inconsistent? 

Cheers,


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (20 Nov 2012)

Hi
70 Uk gallons = 315 litres or 82.89 Us gallons.

One months supply for a trace mix is 2.5 tsp per 200 mls of water.

Regards
Paul


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (21 Nov 2012)

Hello thanks for your answers !!
My first batch was made on Clive base (20 galon) and it was perfect ( of course that's Clive work hehe) but than I lost my calculation sheet so I decide to make a batch base on nutrient company. And I didn't had the same result in growth ! Now I know why ! 
But I will make tomorrow a new batch made on your proportion Clive !!
The only issue I have was about my GH  ! When I did my first batch (Clive proportion) I didn't put MgSO4 and growth, pearling, etc was good. 
Than for the the second batch I had receive my Mg so I decided to put it in the mix. Because tap water in Kinshasa is : GH 1 or less. 
But after 2 weeks dosing and a WC my GH reach 13 degree !!!! 
I am already hearing Clive telling me "here is a part of your problem". 
I had noticed this problem when I saw my crypt starting to melt. This plant is a good indicator !

So to conclude let me make a new batch base on Clive and I ll let you know. 
I ll try to adjust slowly my Mg. 

By the way this week end I have recscape a 1000 L tank with lava of different size. This Lava is coming from the Nyiragongo volcano in Goma DRC. 

The first layer





Second layer




An idea of the scape we wanted to do




I will take better pic if the final result tomorrow ! 

Thanks to all of you !! And it's an honor for me to have Clive answering me ! After hours of reading all the tutorials and advices he has give to every one!

Cheers 
Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (21 Nov 2012)

You know Clive "saved" me 6 month ago ! I had huge issue of green hair algae ! I started reading a lots of thread in different forums ( French one ) than I had remember that few month ago I had seen an English forum that is really interesting ! And I started reading all the thread about algae !! And I have discover Master Clive lol so I decided to follow his advices about CO2 concentration and water flow adjustment  than 3 weeks after no more algae !! I didn't had the opportunity to say thank you Clive !!!!!
So here I am !!

Thanks again to every one here on this forum to share your acknowledge and everything !!!

Best regards 


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (21 Nov 2012)

Hey guys I just have noticed some thing!
If I do Clive mixture at the end of the week I will "have" 13 ppm of phosphate. 
But in the tutorial you mention 3 ppm of phosphate per week ! 
I know that the first time it was perfect and that it is an estimative method of fertilization.  
But I just want to know if it not too much phosphate ? 
Thanks 
Zanguli 


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## tim (21 Nov 2012)

Nothing is perfect mate don't worry about too much worry about too little   it's ei it will never be perfect there are far too many other variables just add and worry about the important things co2 too much lighting and cleaning


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## ceg4048 (21 Nov 2012)

Hi,
    Thanks for the very nice words, but actually the credit belongs strictly to T. Barr (plantbrain). It was he who freed the first of us from The Matrix.  8)  I have simply reinterpreted his data and tried to make it more accessible.

In any case, the addition of extra Mg cannot be the cause of Crypt melting. If you review the in the EI Tutorial thread you will realize that the GH in that tank was higher than 25, so GH cannot be a problem, however, it might be an issue for fish so you only need to raise your GH from 1 to about 4. Also there might be a possibility that you need to add small amounts of Calcium if the GH is only 1. Any Calcium salt will do if you have access.

Crypt melting is strictly a CO2 related issue, so you need to look at the possibility that you injection rate is no longer sufficient for the mass of plants that you have now, or that somehow the flow/distribution has changed for the worse, or that there is more light now than there was before. I'm not saying that any of these are definitely the case because I cannot know exactly all the things that have changed from the previous time to the current time, but hopefully it helps you to focus your troubleshooting efforts in the proper direction.

In a planted tank, there is no such thing as too much phosphate.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (22 Nov 2012)

Hi 
you re right to say that the credit belongs to M Barr ! 
So Mr Barr, Congratulation for your hard work       
But Mr Clive thanks to make it more understandable for us !    
By the how can i read the all Barr Report ?

I didn't knew that crypts can live in such hard water !
ok so i think that it could be 2 issue :
- first one i have remove some sword plant that was next to the crypt and they have less shade than before ! But they are still under a huge root.
- seconde one is that the flow has maybe change on this side because, my hemianthus micranthemoide is coming too much on the front and start to become very dense because of the triming. and just before that HM i have an hydrocolite that start to take lot of room !!
These two thing happened at the same time, two weeks ago, so at the same time that my crypts start to melt !
I will correct the flow when i ll be back home !
Is MgSo4 very important for plants ? 
Clive you asked me if i have some Ca yes i do because when i have seen that kinshasa tap water have GH 1 I have directly think that there must have a lack of Ca in this water ! Can some one advice me on a mixture of MgSO4 and Ca please.
An other thing Clive, when I had my algae problems i had 3x54 w on for 10 hours, CO2 was not enough, flow was not good, and ferts was ok. My plants were pearling like crazy, but i had a lots of algae.
Than i decided to reduce light to 2x54 w for 7 hours, raise much more my CO2, Adjust my water flow, raise a bit the ferts ! after 3 weeks all the algae were gone, but plant were pearling veeeery little. Since thant no adjustment have been done, Light is the same, CO2 is the same, ferts the same since yesterday !! So i don't really understand why it's not pearling like before ?
Clive you suggest me to maybe raise a bit my CO2 but if i raise it my ph will be a bit low. Today my ph is : 6,6 to 6,2 so i don't know if i can go more lower ? 

Thanks again 
cheers 
Zanguli


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## ceg4048 (22 Nov 2012)

Hi mate,



			
				zanguli-ya-zamba said:
			
		

> Is MgSo4 very important for plants ?


Yes, it is very important, but you really should not become obsessive about it. You don't need a lot of Mg. It just needs to be available. You definitely don't need to raise the GH to 13 just with MgSO4, that's just wasting money. Read more about Mg in the thread About Magnesium

Also as mentioned in the thread GH=Ca+Mg and so your GH test kit cannot tell you how much of each is in the water. In fact, it may be 100% Magnesium and 0% Calcium. I don't know the geology of the area around Kinshasa so I can't say where the water was before it got to you house and how it got that GH of 1. Anyway, there is a possibility that you may have plenty of Mg and not enough Ca. Again, I don't know that for sure, I'm just saying that there is a possibility....

You do not need any particular mix. If you have a Calcium salt you can just mix equal measure of MgSO4 plus your Calcium salt to bring the GH up to about 4. Just experiment with adding small amounts of each and measure the GH. So do a very large water change and measure GH. Then add a few teaspoons of MgSO4 and measure GH. Continue to add a teaspoon until the GH increases by 2 units. Then, add a teaspoon or so of your Calcium salt, enough to raise the GH by another two units. That's all you need. Now you know how much of that Calcium salt plus MgSO4 you should add after water changes.

There a re a lot of factors that cause pearling that have nothing to do with plant health so it's not a good idea to chase pearling. Pearling depends not only on the rate of Oxygen production of the plant but also the rate solubility of the gas into the water, so temperature and pressure are an issue. It's is very possible to have sick plants that pearl and it is also very possible to have very healthy plants that do not pearl. Reducing the light intensity reduces the photosynthetic rate, so this is one of the reasons that the Oxygen gas is not being produced as quickly. But as you can see, when the light intensity was high you also had algae, so algae is capable of pearling equally well. My advice is to ignore pearling for now.



			
				zanguli-ya-zamba said:
			
		

> Clive you suggest me to maybe raise a bit my CO2 but if i raise it my ph will be a bit low. Today my ph is : 6,6 to 6,2 so i don't know if i can go more lower ?


Yes it can go much lower. It can go as low as you want. You need to stop worrying about pH because fish and plants do not care about pH. The only limitation you need to worry about is how much CO2 you are injecting. If you inject too much CO2 then this will kill the fish. That is your only limitation. Use the pH reading to indicate how much CO2 you are injecting, but do not worry about the pH value itself.



			
				zanguli-ya-zamba said:
			
		

> By the how can i read the all Barr Report ?


You can access The Barr Report at http://www.barrreport.com/ but some of the very important data requires that you pay a small fee. It's also in American-English though. No French, Kikongo, Tshiluba, Lingala or Kiswahili. Sorry.   

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (22 Nov 2012)

Hi
Thanks for the advices.

For the MgSO4 and the Ca i'll follow what you say. monday i'll make a WC than add spoon of Mg and Ca to reach GH 4.
Just for information, kinshasa tap water is pump from the Congo River to the national water company. they pass water trough different pool for sand precipitation etc and than they just add Chlorine.

For the pearling part as you say I will ignore it for now.

About the CO2 rate, when you say i have to use Ph reading to check my CO2 concentration, that means i have to look to the table of CO2 Ph Gh relation ?? or it is something else ?

For the Barr report I will be happy to contribute to Tom Barr work, so paying for a part of is work is wellcome for me !!!
OOOOHH how come the Barr report is not written in Lingala hahahaha   
I am not worry for my english as i "speak" english for more than 20 years, so it will be ok for me (I suppose   )

Well mate thanks again for the advices
I will inform you of the evolution
Cheers 
Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (22 Nov 2012)

just a last question, my lights are on for 7 hours do I put them on for 9 hours or 7 is ok ?
cheers


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## ceg4048 (22 Nov 2012)

Hi zanguli,
                Checking the pH is just a way to help you to verify the color of the dropchecker, or, if you don't have a dropchecker the pH change can be used to give an indication of how much CO2 you are injecting. Using the tables is NOT a good idea. The calculated values will be wrong, but looking at the difference in pH between lights off and lights on gives you a clue as to how effective your injection is.

I see no reason right now to increase the lighting to 9 hours unless you really want to see the tank for those extra two hours. Once you have fixed your CO2 problems you can use more light if you want.

It surprises me a little bit that the water is so low in GH because the Congo River is fed in part by Lake Tanganyika and some other Rift Valley lakes which are high in Calcium and carbonates. I guess the much larger rain and snow fed volume of water from all the mountain dilutes that. More importantly the water isn't from an underground source where there would be a lot of dissolved minerals, so I guess that makes sense.   

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (22 Nov 2012)

I have a drop checker and when I had my algae problems it was lime green than when I raised my CO2 to solve that problem it turns yellow ! And until now it still yellow ! But I know that if my Ph is over 6,4 I start again to have green hair algae. So I prefer to stay at 6,2 but if I can go lower by raising again my CO2 than I will do it !!
The difference of ph lights off light on is 0,3 Ph. Now how can I make the relation with to know if the injection is ok ?
I know I ask a lot of question but I am curious and hungry of learning more !! 


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (22 Nov 2012)

Congo River is a bit fed by tanganika lake kivu lake I agree. But before reaching the Congo river all these smell rivers pass trough forest and land ! So that's maybe why the water becom soft before reaching Congo river ! 
Also the part of Congo river that is fed by tanganika or other hard water lake is very very small compare to all the rivers that comes into Congo river ! I don't know if I have well formulate my sentence. I have here in my office a very detailed map of Congo river and all the rivers in Congo. Do you want me to post a pic ??
Regards 


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## ceg4048 (22 Nov 2012)

Hi,
   Yes post an image if you can. I know that this is a huge, fascinating river, one of the top 3 on the planet. Yes I suspected that it was the case of dilution and absorption of minerals by the forests it serves. Your sentence structure is fine, I understood that perfectly.

Regarding your question about the pH difference, it's better to compare the initial value of the tank water when it only has ambient CO2 dissolved in it. At night, the water still retains some injected CO2, especially if the tank has a cover. So take some tank water out in a cup and let it rest for an hour or so then measure the pH to get the initial (value.

A very rough guide is that the pH difference between the zero CO2 water and the lowest pH value should be almost 1 unit. So if the initial value is 7 then a minimum pH of somewhere between 6 and 6.3 is the target. Again this is ONLY AN APPROXIMATION because we don't take into account the KH which will affect how the pH falls with CO2 addition. For water with medium KH values (i.e. between 4-8) a 1 pH unit change is good. Of course, at high KH, driving the pH down by 1 unit will cause CO2 toxicity to fish and at KH below 4 the pH will fall even more than 1 unit. So if there are fish in the tank don't just go crazy and drive the pH down or you could suffocate them very quickly. Remember that the pH scale is logarithmic, so a 1 pH unit change is equal to a 10X change in acidity. For absolute best value, that 1 pH unit difference should occur at lights on, but this is very difficult to achieve. Have a look at the thread Reliability of Drop Checkers for more details.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (23 Nov 2012)

Hi,
ok let me do that this week end caus i am a bit busy at work, coming back home at 8 pm so i'll do that on saturday !!!
just an info can i make a water solution of 4 kh for my dropchecker with distilled water and MgSO4 ??? Or can i do it with backing soda ?
Or i jus ignore this drop checker and use my ph meter ??
For the pic of congo map i have take it but as the map is big details are difficult to see !!

So my plan for the week end will be :
-trim the plant to give a better flow and place the new coralia circulation pump that i have received yesterday ( i have order it 3 week ago !!! aaaaaaah living in africa lol)
- water change and adjust Kh using MgSO4 and Ca
-check CO2 concentration by measuring ph of water tank without CO2 and compare it to the lowest ph of the day in the tank.
- clean filter, clean deeply tank because i have not done it for 13 days !!!!(but WC has been done)
-instal the in line atomizer of CO2 (have the jbl taifun diffuser) 

Just an info for the moderators, when i am at home i cannot use tapatalk or post on the forum it tells me that ip address is on black list !!! but at work it's ok ! 
thank a lot i'll update on monday 
best regards
Zanguli


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## ceg4048 (23 Nov 2012)

Hi,
    MgSO4 is associated with the General Hardness, not the Alkalinity. 

A lot of people use the following recipe to make the 4dKH. It's not very accurate, but is close enough:
First, mix 6 grams of Sodium Bicarbonate in 1 Liter of distilled water.
Use 10 ml of this solution and dilute with 490ml of distilled water.

Not sure about your tapatalk issue. Please post the question in the Technical section and Paulo or someone else might be able to help.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba (23 Nov 2012)

ok
no problem for me to find the sodium bicarbonate.
so even if I have an electronic Ph meter i still keep my drop checker ?

thanks 
regards


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## ceg4048 (23 Nov 2012)

Well, the DC gives you a nice quick visual reference, even though it isn't very accurate. Many people, after they become more experienced and learn what to look for in the tank, don't bother using the DC after a while. It's really up to you. I mention these things so that you have more options. It's good to compare the two, while also observing the plants and fish, so you can relate all these indications together and to have a better confidence and knowledge.

Cheers,


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