# EI dry powder micros affecting fish?



## Soilwork (15 Feb 2016)

Hello,  I know this may sound a bit strange and I have been lurking around here long enough to know what I am about to say may seem a little proposterious but I have to ask.

Last year I was dosing easy carbo and dry ferts both macro and micro.  I was having a problem where I was losing a harlequin Rasbora each week.  I was new to dosing at the time and blamed it on the easycarbo.  I stopped dosing altogether and went low tech. after a good spell with low tech (soil and fish food) the plants wanted couldn't survive in the low tech environment so I began to add easy carbo again. Everything was great, I switched to 50% water changes, added activated carbon to the filter and cleaned up my act.  Plants growth took off.  The problem was that because I had upgraded to t5ho from t8s and supplemented carbon I started to get GSA on every leaf of nearly every plant.  So I took a reading of phosphate and nitrate (yeah I know test kits stink) and confirmed multiple times that I had none of either.  This made sense to me so I began to add EI macros courtesy of the aquarium plant food help card.  New leaves were healthy and remained healthy.  So I continued to do this and all was great but last week I decided to throw some micros in to the mix.  Alternate days of course.  Within a day after this I saw one of my perfectly healthy cardinals displaying the exact same symptoms that I had previously witnessed when I was losing my harlequins last year.  The act, swim and eat normally but have very rapid breathing. Then the go in to hiding until they eventually perish.  I was just wondering if it was possible their is something in the micros that could cause this? Or if I need to look elsewhere. 

Thanks 
CJ


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## PARAGUAY (16 Feb 2016)

HI Soilwork,sounds like a bit goin on here.First think your algae problem as you describe it was your lighting I would have thought the step from T8 to T5 is considerable you could raise it and reduce the photoperiod for starters,I have never read or heard anything about dry salts being dangerous to livestock if dosed correct.Liquid Carbon is toxic at too high a dosage definetly a possibility of your fish fatalities.Definetly check your water quality too maybe with your nearest reputable aquarium shop,another possibility if you have any bullying fish in the mix


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## fablau (25 Feb 2016)

Micro dosing could easily become toxic to fish and plants if you dose more than necessary. How much micros have you added?


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## Soilwork (25 Feb 2016)

1tsp in 500ml of water 30ml 3 x a week.  Just going off the aquarium plant food card for now.  It says 10ml per 50 litres and I have a 180 litre aquarium.  Also use soil substrate heavy in micros.


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## fablau (26 Feb 2016)

Soilwork said:


> 1tsp in 500ml of water 30ml 3 x a week.  Just going off the aquarium plant food card for now.  It says 10ml per 50 litres and I have a 180 litre aquarium.  Also use soil substrate heavy in micros.



1tsp of what? CSM+B? Please, let me know...


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## tim (26 Feb 2016)

fablau said:


> 1tsp of what? CSM+B? Please, let me know...


http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/chelated-trace.html
I use the same micro mix on my 180ltr, I dose 40ml 3x per week (rather be over than under dosing) never had an issue with livestock and been using apfuk's ferts for at least 3-4 years had the livestock for at least 3 years, how much liquid carbon are you using.


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## Soilwork (26 Feb 2016)

fablau said:


> 1tsp of what? CSM+B? Please, let me know...



Yes sorry something similar just says micro mix I think.


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## Soilwork (26 Feb 2016)

tim said:


> http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/chelated-trace.html
> I use the same micro mix on my 180ltr, I dose 40ml 3x per week (rather be over than under dosing) never had an issue with livestock and been using apfuk's ferts for at least 3-4 years had the livestock for at least 3 years, how much liquid carbon are you using.



Ok so it can't be that then.  Well I've stopped dosing liquid carbon now but highest I went was about 8mls which is a lot I know.  I'm injecting now.


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## fablau (26 Feb 2016)

tim said:


> http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/chelated-trace.html
> I use the same micro mix on my 180ltr, I dose 40ml 3x per week (rather be over than under dosing) never had an issue with livestock and been using apfuk's ferts for at least 3-4 years had the livestock for at least 3 years, how much liquid carbon are you using.



Well, it is not clear how much micros are you actually putting in your tank. We'd need a proxy element in ppm such as Fe. For example, do you know how many ppm of Fe you are dosing with 40ml of that stuff?


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## Soilwork (26 Feb 2016)

It will be close to whatever the recommended values for EI iron is.  The card claims to be a suitable EI dosing for most tanks.  The target for iron weekly is 0.5ppm so if the card is based on this logic then one of my three doses will be a third of this.  I don't know the exact number.


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## fablau (26 Feb 2016)

Hmm... ok, so, if we assume that, you should be ok. If I were you, I'd make the following experiment:

1. Try to reduce 1/2 of your micro dosing for the next couple of week and see if the situation improves or get worse.

2. If the situation improves, keep the new schedule until your plants are better. If later on your plants get worse again, increase your micro dosing of 1/3 since that could mean you have entered "deficiency realm"

3. If the situation gets worse, that means you need more micros, then try to increase your dosing of 1/3 and observe for 2 more weeks.

I have experimented a lot with micros lately, and it looks like the "sweet-spot" between being deficient and becoming toxic is very narrow. Also, if you have hard water (GH over 12 and KH over 6) you may need more micros than folks with soft water. I have hard water (GH 19, KH 7) and I found myself needed almost double dosing of micros than people with softer water (GH 8, KH 3).

Micros are tricky


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