# incase a hose pops off and floods your house.....



## Dogtemple (5 Mar 2021)

just an idea, should in a worse case scenario a hose pop off your filter and quietly drain the tank from inside the stand and you don't notice or are at work etc, is there some product that exists to stop this?

I'm thinking something along the lines of a water sensor attached to a circuit breaker, should water come in contact with the base of the stand it would turn the filter off to stop pumping water out or something along those lines.


just trying to prevent the worst things I can see happening.

any thoughts?


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## Sammy Islam (5 Mar 2021)

I don't really think a hose can just pop off on its own especially if they have been secured. It's possible and more realistic to happen when fiddling with the filter, like tilting it for example. You could also add some jubilee clips for extra security, but i don't like using them as then it blocks your view to the pipe connections (if clear) to check or monitor if they are becoming loose.


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## Dogtemple (5 Mar 2021)

in my instance the pipework will be moving up and down, so there is a possibility as its not static.  plus theres an increased risk of the hose splitting due to fatigue.


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## ScareCrow (5 Mar 2021)

You can get WiFi water sensors, you could add one of these to notify you of water where it shouldn't be and then if you have a WiFi socket for you filter you could turn it off. Drilling a hole just below the water level of the inlet would stop it siphoning the tank completely if you were worried about that hose popping off. I'm sure there's a more technical automated solution to all of that but that would be a relatively cheap and simple way of doing it.


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## Dogtemple (5 Mar 2021)

something I have considered is just running a flex from a circuit breaker, if it gets wet it should short out and turn the filter off.  don't know if that is a safe or sketchy solution though


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## rudedog (5 Mar 2021)

Dogtemple said:


> something I have considered is just running a flex from a circuit breaker, if it gets wet it should short out and turn the filter off.  don't know if that is a safe or sketchy solution though


That is proper sketchy! 
Turning the filter off wouldn’t stop your tank from draining anyway, gravity would do this (unless your filter and pipe work is all above the tank)

The simplest solution would be to make sure that your intake and outtakes are just below the waterline, that way if your get a leak in any of the filter pipes, it will only drain a bit of water.


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## Kevin Eades (5 Mar 2021)

Dogtemple said:


> something I have considered is just running a flex from a circuit breaker, if it gets wet it should short out and turn the filter off.  don't know if that is a safe or sketchy solution though


Please dont. 

Unless you have a way of stopping the water syphoning turning off the filter does very little to stop it. You could have a leak alarm off the internet to alert you. Unless you are close it will have emptied in about 20 mins max. This is why you have a gap from bottom of intake to substrate so you dont loose all the water. Doesnt save the house though. In 10 odd years of having external filters nothing has ever popped off on its own


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## ScareCrow (5 Mar 2021)

I applaud your bravery, I've done some very sketchy things with electricity both intentionally and unintentionally, some I got away with, some I got shocked and one I almost burnt my parents house down. I would definitely consider the flex circuit breaker option sketchy. If you have an open circuit you could get a shock from it if you accidentally touched it, while doing maintenance. The incident that nearly burnt down my parents house was not dissimilar to what you are suggesting. I had a skimmer on a marine tank start skimming really wet, to the point it started emptying the tank. I had an extension lead on the floor, which when it got wet it started to short out. It wasn't sufficient to blow the fuse and so it got pretty hot, eventually scorching the carpet.


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## zozo (5 Mar 2021)

Most pumps etc. nowadays come with a hose lock nut...  Then with this, it is very unlikely to happen.
If you still have older material without it, then use tube clamps.

Then depending on which tube break where you still would need a return valve to stop the siphoning.  the only thing is, for the filter inlet the flow direction already is down towards the filter, and a return valve won't work in this tube. A circuit breaker won't work either since siphoning has nothing to do with that.

If you want to eliminate all possible worries you should use some electronics with a water sensor and solenoids in the tubes, that shut off /close when power runs out or when the sensor gets wet. 

In this case, I advise you to visit








						How to use a PLC to control your fish tank.
					

Zeus also built a PLC controlled fish tank. Below is Zeus's build notes & pictures. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/page-3#post-489803  How to use a PLC to control your fish tank This article explains how you can use a PLC (programmable logic...



					www.ukaps.org
				




Or visit an Arduino community.


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## noodlesuk (5 Mar 2021)

You're probably better off detecting the water level in the tank, rather than relying on a leak to be detected. That would be a more reliable method of leak detection. You could do it with a float switch and a WiFi enabled microcontroller to send a push message if the water level dropped below a certain threshold. But would be more DIY. I don't know of an off the shelf product. By the time you got back home, likely be too late anyway!


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## Driftless (5 Mar 2021)

They do make flood detectors that you can place near your tank.


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## Dogtemple (5 Mar 2021)

Ok cool I’ll go with an alarm of some sort I think


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## idris (5 Mar 2021)

A cheaper, simpler option would be to use (aquarium safe) silicone sealant on the hose fittings. It'll be a PITA disconnecting it all but it will make the chance of leaks negligible.


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## Simon Davey (6 Mar 2021)

Search for Herbie Clips. 
They come packed wet in a bag, and need to be kept wet.
Once secured onto the pipe, they shrink ever so slightly as they dry out. 
You can buy a cheap tool to remove them. 
I've used them on my 25mm sump return pipes. 
/forum/attachments/20210306_152513-jpg.164286/?hash=16f97cdcc3369bb3f5b1fba90ef2cd62


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## hypnogogia (6 Mar 2021)

Circuit breaker to stop the pump would only work if leak is in pressure side of pump.  If it’s on the siphon side it won’t help. Easiest it to just drill a small hole into siphon tube u der the water line.  If you get a leak, the water will I lay drip as far as the hole, air will be drawn in and the siphon will be broken.  Cheap and  fail safe so long as the hole is kept clean.


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## Nick potts (6 Mar 2021)

As already said, pipes popping off is unlikely and some jubilee clips make it even harder, more likely will be slow leaks from the seals on the filter.

A standard leak detector will help there.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Mar 2021)

The old drill a hole in the pipework just below the waterline trick...





						The Old Drilling a Hole Trick
					

Just started using a very modern Eheim external cannister filter after a break of  over 20 years not using external filters.  Do people still use the old trick of drilling a hole just below the water level on the intake pipe to ensure your tank doesnt get emptied in an emergency situation or is...



					www.ukaps.org


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## tiger15 (6 Mar 2021)

No circuit breaker or warning alarm will work if you are away from home when accident occurs.   The only sure way to prevent flooding from leaky hose is not to install filters with hoses, meaning no canister filter or sump filter that has external plumbing.  I’m paranoid about flooding as I keep large fish tanks in my living area so I use only HOBs with no external plumbing.


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## Ady34 (11 Mar 2021)

It’s a concern, however in all my years of fishkeeping I’ve never had a hose pop off......usually it’s a task to remove them! 
Most filter/equipment manufacturers have hose locks on all hose joining points and regards glassware, just ensure to push the pipe on far enough (I usually go for a couple of cm).
A leak sensor could be a useful tool to alert if the worst should happen.


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## Simon Davey (11 Mar 2021)

Ady34 said:


> It’s a concern, however in all my years of fishkeeping I’ve never had a hose pop off...


You really shouldn't have said that


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## Ady34 (12 Mar 2021)

Simon Davey said:


> You really shouldn't have said that


Flood tonight......


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## LondonDragon (12 Mar 2021)

had that happen to me the other day, was watching TV and the filter outlet started making a noise, looked at the tank and the water level was getting low, opened the cabinet and a connection on the eheim hose taps was leaking, must have knocked it out a little during filter maintenance and it gradually slipped out!  lucky I was there at the time.

I have now purchased flood alarms that will beep and will send me an alert to the phone if that happens! If you use some home automation you can even set it to turn off aquarium equipment too!

Purchased these:

Amazon product

When I ordered it, it was £18

Not too complicated to setup and work just great from my testing! They connect via Wifi.






Planning on getting a couple more for putting under dishwasher and washing machines!


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## zozo (12 Mar 2021)

It once happened to me, an old washing machine and the door switch was obviously broken. The switch that should close the water valve with an open door... One day I started the washing machine but didn't notice the door wasn't fully closed.

Why would you check this? If it starts it should be ok... Thus I went on doing my thing till I saw water on the kitchen floor, coming from under the wooden plank floor in the room next to it... Went to the bathroom where the washing machine is and it had the door fully open water gushing out. It must have been an hour or so after I started it...

Luckily it was summertime to leave the doors and windows open day and night... But I still had to lift the plank floor to prevent mushrooms from growing under it.

Something stupid like that can always happen in a lifetime... I remember 40 years ago my very first 80-liter aquarium, spontaneously cracking open from top to bottom... I did hear it "Zip" and splash! I saw it and it was empty in about 30 seconds...

Last week I was rather lucky, had a plant ripping a tank apart at the silicon sealant... I saw it after only 5 liters was spilled and fixed it again... But for what it's worth the same thing could have happened "Zip - Splash and empty"...  That was my second-time tank leakage personally ever... I hope the last time... But playing with water is actually always exciting even to we take it for granted to not think too much about it...


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## not called Bob (14 Mar 2021)

one of the sump pipes, fell off a few weeks back, fortunately sat on sofa since not all the water was managing to fall into the sump.  

had a base crack and come home when a school aged person to water coming from the attic bedroom through the parents bed below and into the living room, so two disasters in over 30 years is good odds


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## lurcher (25 Jul 2021)

Thanks bud,no sleep tonight now!


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## robinj (23 Aug 2021)

I cracked the inline diffuser by mistaking CO2 regulation valve (it's fully open when tightened). Since then I have not big trust in that component and as I moved into flat, I'm switching to intank diffuser. Also, I dont consider those hose nuts on that diffuser tight enough and it's another source of potential leakage...


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## ian_m (23 Aug 2021)

robinj said:


> Also, I dont consider those hose nuts on that diffuser tight enough and it's another source of potential leakage...


I have stainless jubillee clips on my diffuser rather than the lock nuts, as I had a "pop off" incident whilst fiddling adjusting hoses once.


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## robinj (23 Aug 2021)

ian_m said:


> I have stainless jubillee clips on my diffuser rather than the lock nuts, as I had a "pop off" incident whilst fiddling adjusting hoses once.


Yes, me too. I consider jubilee clips now too, as a backup on my Eheim canister connections. I would generally recommend longer hoses between the double-valve and the canister taps, because the short hose piece tend to be stiff and once it popped off the filter tap. The tension in longer hose is absorbed by hose but with short hose, it gets absorbed by the connection.


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## tiger15 (23 Aug 2021)

If you want to safeguard against hose leak that can potentially drain the tank, avoid filters with external hoses, meaning no canister filters or sump system with overflow hoses.  HOBs  are 100%  leak proof because there is no external plumbing.  Sump system with hard plumbing is also very safe as chance of breaking rigid PVC plumbing is remote.

If you must use canister filter or sump system with external hoses, you can minimize flooding hazard by fixing or drilling an anti siphon hole in the hoses near the top of the tank, so even if it leaks, it can drain down only a few inches of water.


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## bazz (24 Aug 2021)

I use these Eheim hose clips when in doubt, they're not cheap by comparison but I find they give a more even all round compression than standard Jubilee Clips.


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## robinj (24 Aug 2021)

tiger15 said:


> If you want to safeguard against hose leak that can potentially drain the tank, avoid filters with external hoses, meaning no canister filters or sump system with overflow hoses.  HOBs  are 100%  leak proof because there is no external plumbing.  Sump system with hard plumbing is also very safe as chance of breaking rigid PVC plumbing is remote.
> 
> If you must use canister filter or sump system with external hoses, you can minimize flooding hazard by fixing or drilling an anti siphon hole in the hoses near the top of the tank, so even if it leaks, it can drain down only a few inches of water.


Just googled it and definitely thankful for that idea. Intank filter would be even safer than HOBs, but anything else than canister/sump for 50+ gallon tanks?
I am thinking about various scenarios. But the drill would need to be on mainly inlet lower hose. No?
What about those skimmer inlet pipes? Wouldnl't it work as safety antisyphon hole too?

What about back flow valves?


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## tiger15 (24 Aug 2021)

robinj said:


> Just googled it and definitely thankful for that idea. Intank filter would be even safer than HOBs, but anything else than canister/sump for 50+ gallon tanks?
> I am thinking about various scenarios. But the drill would need to be on mainly inlet lower hose. No?
> What about those skimmer inlet pipes? Wouldnl't it work as safety antisyphon hole too?
> 
> What about back flow valves?


Back flow valves work but impose high flow resistance, not worth it if you can do it simpler with anti siphon device.  There are many skimmer design and if it can break siphon when leak develops somewhere in the hosing system, it should work.  In tank filters cannot leak out of the tank, so they are the safest but also the ugliest.  Aquascapers pay high priority to aesthetic and internal filters, along with HOBs to a lesser degree, are out in front and cannot be hidden.  I have huge show tanks in my living room on hardwood floor, and my priority is safety first.  I run multiple HOBs, 2 in my my 75 gal and 3 in my 125 gal to achieve adequate filtration so as to avoid external plumbing and the potential of leak.


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## idris (28 Aug 2021)

I used to worry about leaks. I don't now.
I have something like 27 possible failure points in my cabinet, with just standard barbed fittings. The only precautions I've taken are to heat the hoses in boiling water when fitting them, put 2mm cable ties around them. No jubilee clips or anything fancy. 
I've had lights, pumps and heaters all die, but I've never had a significant leak in 10yrs.


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## tiger15 (28 Aug 2021)

idris said:


> I used to worry about leaks. I don't now.
> I have something like 27 possible failure points in my cabinet, with just standard barbed fittings. The only precautions I've taken are to heat the hoses in boiling water when fitting them, put 2mm cable ties around them. No jubilee clips or anything fancy.
> I've had lights, pumps and heaters all die, but I've never had a significant leak in 10yrs.


No significant leak implies that there could be insignificant leak.  An insignificant leak can turn into significant leak if it is not discovered early and allowed to continue for a long time.  There have been reports of insignificant drip from an insignificant air hose that drained half a tank over several days when someone was away from home.  I have experienced an air hose slipped off a gang valve creating a venturi suction that started back siphoning from air hoses still attached.  This is why manufacturers recommend air pump be placed above tank to prevent back siphoning but not many comply.  I have no choice but have a CO2 hose go into my high tech tank but I avoid external reactor and use an in tank reactor instead.  Importantly, I installed a check valve to prevent back siphoning  and placed it inside the tank under water so I can spot valve failure (bubbling) it it happens.

As long as there are external hoses, there are connectors (clamps, O ring, adapter, hose holders, etc) and each one of them is a potential leak source, specially if you have to unhook them from time to time to do maintenance.

27 possible failure points  sound excessive but possible if you have multiple canisters and external reactors. and being inside and hidden in the cabinet make undetected leak more likely.


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## idris (28 Aug 2021)

27 possible failure points because I have two canister filters that each have their own intakes and spray bars. Then there's a system of (4) taps and (2) T-pieces that means I can use one of the filters to pump water out of, and back into the tank through barbed & threaded hose tails. (The top of the tank is 5ft above the floor and it's a 250L tank, so this takes a lot of lifting out of a 20% water change. Throw in an inline heater, a pair of hose diameter reducers, and a couple of elbows (because one of the canisters is taller than I had the cabinet built for), and it all adds up to 27.

The ONLY leak I've ever had was because one of the taps (after several years of service) doesn't seal 100% and the threaded end cap on the drain hose that's connected to it doesn't seal 100%. When I found it, it had lost no more than 20 or 30ml of water in well over a week. The cap was sorted with PTFE tape, and no more leak. I could replace the tap for about £3, but it would be a PITA to do. So the failure was down to a tap and a screw fitting; nothing to do with hoses coming off and nothing that would have been prevented by 100 fancy hose clips.

The most water I've lost from the tank has been by evaporation when I forgot to close the cover glass. And that did more damage to the woodwork (the PVA glue holding the canopy together failed) than the hose leak.

I'm not saying leaks _can't_ happen - I'm just presenting a case for not loosing sleep, even when there are more hose unions than under many tanks.


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