# www.cheapfish.co.uk scam?



## Smells Fishy (28 Mar 2017)

This site seems to good to be true with the catalog of different and interesting fish but it just comes across as really shoddy. So I'm wondering if anyone here has actually braved it and received something from this site?

Cheers.


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

Cheap?? Realy? Is this regular UK prices? I buy a Trichopsis pumila for € 1.25..  Almost everything on there is triple the price i would pay in Euro's.
And if my information is correct the minimum wage in UK is few euro's lower too.. Unbelievable, what makes aquarium fish so expensive in your country?


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## Tim Harrison (28 Mar 2017)

Nothing in particular...us Brits just seem to be fair game for extortion.
We even have a TV programme call Rip Off Britain


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## papa_c (28 Mar 2017)

I'd agree with zozo, even compared to other shops in the UK prices seem a little high, try Kesgrave tropical on eBay, I bought from them recently and was very impressed, delivery is £15 for any quantity, but service is great, packaged superbly, not in cardboard box but polystyrene box and delivered on a set day before 12.00pm. My experience is you can not go wrong with them.


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

Amazing, despite all, this hobby is still verry popular in the UK.. Much more popular than in our country.. You would expect it other way around that it would be cheaper adding up numbers.


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

OMG, looked up the shop locator from ruinemans.com, very large tropical fish importer.. Also supplies UK with tropical fish.
One of their UK customers is Wildwoods water garden centre they have a webshop.
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/stores/productsinfo.asp?store=54&prod=4238

Pound 2,95 for a Boraras maculatus.. Can you believe i bought them last week for € 0.80 each..
I know they come from same supplier i had to order them because they weren't in stock at the lfs.


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## papa_c (28 Mar 2017)

Zozo, Welcome to the world of UK aquatic retailers!

I was in Hungary for a few weeks over the summer and fish were 1/3 of the price when compared the to UK.

Otto's were €1.20 each, it amazes me how the prices can differ so wildly


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

Well ok i can imagine living on an island makes all import a bit more expensive with air-frieght etc. But then still at Ruinemans wholesale maybe a critter like that for €0.50 each and make that pound 2,95. I suspect somebody tries to get filthy rich over it..


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## Nelson (28 Mar 2017)

zozo said:


> Pound 2,95 for a Boraras maculatus.. Can you believe i bought them last week for € 0.80 each..


And when you want 50 of them.. ....


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

Nelson said:


> And when you want 50 of them.. ....


No idea, i would need to bargin for that. As it mostly works everywhere, don't ask don't get. But i know a little hobby wise LFS with contacts, they would barging to make a name for themself.. The big ones probaly just laugh and say "take it or leave it." Unfortunately i do not have the Ruinemans wholesale prices, only the offer catalogues at their website. Was actualy amazed how much still is wild caught, they make no secret about it.. The T. Pumilas, the boraras maculatus, kobutai, the hara's and oreichtys all are wild.. From the first 30 boraras i had 26 died, this time i have a stronger family. All colored up perfectly within a few days only one perished till now..  Fingers crossed.

I respect you guys, i think i wouldn't be in this hobby for € 3,50 each and all dying like flies. That's criminal.. Never realised it was so expensive for you..
No wonder you're all so good..  Beeing cheap makes a lot of people sloppy and careless.

So it has a possitive side though..


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## RichardJW (28 Mar 2017)

zozo said:


> Well ok i can imagine living on an island makes all import a bit more expensive with air-frieght etc. But then still at Ruinemans wholesale maybe a critter like that for €0.50 each and make that pound 2,95. I suspect somebody tries to get filthy rich over it..



Don't see anyone getting filthy rich around here . Shipage costs , business rates , staff , fuel bills soon eat into your profit ! 


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## Alex J (28 Mar 2017)

Obviously  yes everyone needs to make a profit and some store owners overheads are going to be higher than others but it's interesting just how wildly prices do vary, as has been said, many of the stores in the uk are buying from the same wholesalers and you probably have to take into account things like exchange rates , freight costs etc but still some stores are so overpricing fish it feels like buyers are being ripped off. My particular gripe is with the franchised stores of a well known  aquatic shop brand here in the uk . I have been told by staff who work at one shop near me  that every store can only buy from the same wholesalers , so they are all paying the same price but its up to to individual shop owners how much they charge. I have three of these stores fairly near me and the price differences are astounding. Examples would be. Ottocinclus sp. £9.95 . £3.00 . £2.75. Gara flavatra £15.00. £6.00 £9.95. . It goes on and on. I just dont see how anyone can justify charging £9.95 for an ottocinclus when another franchised  shop ten miles away charges £15 for 6.


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

Well i might be just to stuppid to get my head around it.. But a fish like a Boraras maculatus wild caught in south east asia is caught and shipped half way around the world to main land europe and i can buy it for a retail price of € 0.80. And everybody is happy and gets a fair share from asia to europe..

And then it is shipped on from main land europe across the channel and the retail price goes up about over 4 times to pound 2.95?.

Somebody is rofling along nicly here no doubt about that..


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## Smells Fishy (28 Mar 2017)

I'm not very clued up on what to expect to for certain fish so I can't really comment apart from i once bought a snowball plec for £40 and my other LFS was selling one for £30 but it looked a lot duller so maybe that's why mine cost more, just because of the quality? Anyway this so called cheap fish website is wanting £65.99 for one! I'm only interested because of the vast selection and some fish are actually cheap for example, a Palembang puffer fish is £27.29 and on www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk they want £49.95, there's probably loads more examples but that's the only one I'm really interested in. 

@papa_cee 
Yeah I've had a look on Kesgrave tropical before and they have a decent variety of fish, shrimp and snails, got the best deal on Amazon puffers I've seen to date, so that's got my interest. I might ask them if they can sort out a dealio for a Palembang puffer sometime.


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## Alex J (28 Mar 2017)

I know that kesgrave get a lot of their fish from Ruinmans . I once asked him about some red eye puffer fish i was intetested in, he told me to look on Ruinmans and if they had some he would order them for me.


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## mort (28 Mar 2017)

Most fish prices are dictated by the rate against the dollar so basic cost price shouldn't be too different between the uk and Europe.  From a quick glance their mark up is huge (going by import lists). A fair reasonable markup used to be add the vat and double but this has far been exceeded in the last few years. We are still however paying less for marines than Europe. 
Chains associated with garden centres has a price structure. A friend imports a product from the states and they wanted a markup of 75% or they wouldn't even take a meeting as this has to be across the chain. They also have to pay a certain % of what goes through the till before deductions.


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## Alex J (28 Mar 2017)

I have just been looking at an extensive list of fish being offered by someone on aquarist classified , being imported from aquabeek. He says to add 70% to the prices to cover costs. also I was recently shown  a wholesalers list of aquatic plants with the average cost of bunched plants being 30cents( us) per bunch and potted plants $1.00 landed price. It's a little anoying to find  out that people on mainland Europe are being charged so much less for fish, makes you wonder how much prices will alter once we leave the EU.


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## zozo (28 Mar 2017)

It's a free market for many things i guess.. And they are likely not bound to prices and can ask what ever they want. In my country i also some times encounter price tags of which i think "How the hell did they come up with that?"

E.g. another hobby i have is keeping my some what German made oldtimer on the road.. Needed to adjust the valves and it needs a special type of wrench to do properly with a minimum risk of damaging adjustmant bolts. Hazet tools produces this wrench, but since it is for a pre 1985 engine not much demand anymore for it. I found one at a local webshop called "Special tools".. Price tag € 79,95 

Luckely i live e few miles from the German border and it's a German car. and Hazet a german tool brand. So hopped over went to the first best well equiped tool station with a Hazet sign.. And they took it of the shelf for about €20,- And job done. Special tool my @## they are crooks, just saying i need to buy it and if i'm unllucky store it for 10 years without intrest.. So i charge this for dead capital i store.. Actualy very smart everything is payed for before it's sold. I pitty those people having to pay for it if you live to far away from the source.

Same as those little fish in the UK.. Buy 1 and you pay for 6.


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## Henry (28 Mar 2017)

The price of fish within the same group can vary wildly due to wholesalers supplying from a number of different farms. Ottocinclus can be bought from either side of the world, with difference in quality, loss rates, carriage etc. While it's true shops can set their own price, many follow similar margins, so the variation you see is likely down to the aforementioned factors.

You can blame eye-watering business rates as one of the reasons for the price of fish in this country. Trust me, very few people get rich in the UK aquatics industry, most of the time it's done for love; even some at the top of the tree of big retailers are avid fishkeepers.

Support your best local shop, and maybe they'll have the opportunity to be more competitive, rather than running to online retailers for everything to save a quid here or there. I'd sooner hand pick Apistogramma who have paired up in the corner of a shop tank, than rely on some bloke in a warehouse in Milton Keynes to pick my fish for me and stick them in the post. Not to mention the invaluable advice a decent shopkeeper can give you.


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## Alex J (29 Mar 2017)

Totally agree with supporting small independent retailers, i have been using a shop near me for the last 25 years, he's a great bloke with a passion for what he is doing and always gives good advice even if that means losing a sale for livestock  that would be  unsuitable for a particular customer. I also get that these chain store sized aquatic shops have much larger overheads , multiple staff to pay , larger business rates etc etc and its obviously the customers who end up having to pay more for livestock and dry goods to pay for the increased outlay of the business owner, thats just life. Whilst i agree that the price of fish can vary for the reasons you mentioned above its not justified to charge nearly £10 for a fish that other stores within the same  group are selling for £3.00 especially when they are all paying the same price at the same time from the same supplier. The prices i quoted earlier are no


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## dean (29 Mar 2017)

Some of the problems are the costs involved in having a business premises that's why I work from home 
The business rates (tax paid to local government) is almost the same as the rent in my town 

Then you have to pay minimum wage which I totally agree with 
But then you have to pay national insurance and pension money etc etc
So if I had a small lfs of 1000 square feet area 
rent is about £650 per month 
Business tax £550 per month 
1 employee £1400 per month 
So that £2600 before 
Water 
Electricity ( silly high prices)
Transport - van etc 
Buildings insurance 
Public liability insurance 
My salary 
Plus we have to pay 20% vat on all stock 
Plus lots more 

Now you can see why lfs owners mainly do it for the love and not the money 

So when you going out buying fish etc I bet most of you go to the garden centres or one of the big chains etc 
That's because they have the stock where as the small lfs has to order it in 
"We want it today" is how we live 
So people pay these high prices for a few reason 
1 we want it today 
2 the big chains are easy to find in garden centres and big shops on retail parks 
3. Small lfs can't afford prime locations so harder to find 

In general most people are inpatient and lazy 

Virtually everyone in the uk has had per fish at some point but very few stay in the hobby mainly due to fish deaths and dirty tanks which is due to them either not bothering to research the subject, being given bad advise or being sold poor quality fish or inappropriate species 

Rant over 



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## Alex J (29 Mar 2017)

Alex J said:


> Totally agree with supporting small independent retailers, i have been using a shop near me for the last 25 years, he's a great bloke with a passion for what he is doing and always gives good advice even if that means losing a sale for livestock  that would be  unsuitable for a particular customer. I also get that these chain store sized aquatic shops have much larger overheads , multiple staff to pay , larger business rates etc etc and its obviously the customers who end up having to pay more for livestock and dry goods to pay for the increased outlay of the business owner, thats just life. Whilst i agree that the price of fish can vary for the reasons you mentioned above its not justified to charge nearly £10 for a fish that other stores within the same  group are selling for £3.00 especially when they are all paying the same price at the same time from the same supplier. One of these shops was recently asking£50.00 for female koi betta, just my opinion but that is just ripping people off.


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## dean (29 Mar 2017)

One large chain (animals at work ) only pay for fish once they have sold them, the supplier takes the hit of any loses 
Can a lfs stick their tanks for free ? NO 
this is why I think they are not the place to buy fish from as they don't usually have any specialist staff and there prices are also stupidly high 


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## Nelson (29 Mar 2017)

dean said:


> inpatient and lazy


You've not even met me,and yet you know me so well .


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## mort (29 Mar 2017)

Henry said:


> . Trust me, very few people get rich in the UK aquatics industry, most of the time it's done for love; even some at the top of the tree of big retailers are avid fishkeepers.
> 
> .



It was funny at the last trade show in Telford, most people arrived in old bangers except all the guys who only sold koi, they had Mercs


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## dean (30 Mar 2017)

mort said:


> It was funny at the last trade show in Telford, most people arrived in old bangers except all the guys who only sold koi, they had Mercs



Now that's one way to rip people off 
It's all about snobbery 


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## Alex J (30 Mar 2017)

dean said:


> One large chain (animals at work ) only pay for fish once they have sold them, the supplier takes the hit of any loses
> Can a lfs stick their tanks for free ? NO
> this is why I think they are not the place to buy fish from as they don't usually have any specialist staff and there prices are also stupidly high
> 
> ...


Interesting to find that out. My local store will be popular with the wholesaler then, always plenty of dead fish on view.. what makes me laugh is the process you have to go through before they will sell you a fish when its very clear that the "fish expert " in store hasn't got a clue what they are taking about. Goes for aquatic plants too, once saw a staff member selling some Draceana sp. To an unsuspecting customer, telling them how easy they were to keep


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