# CPD eggs!



## Majsa (15 Dec 2018)

So I closed down my shrimp breeding tank (after selling most of the babies to a LFS) and started a CPD breeding tank instead. I though there is room for more CPDs in my CPD tank 

The first attempt failed, I think mostly because I hadn't conditioned and prepared the fish well enough. I was also a bit worried that the fish would be too old with their 2+ years. This time I started overfeeding the fish already in their own tank. On Saturday I added two females to the 20L, and on Tuesday the male. On Wednesday I performed a WC with cool water (18C) and turned up the temperature from 21C to 23C. Already the same evening I saw eggs between the marbles! Just a couple, but definitely eggs. 

Yesterday (Friday) I performed another cool WC. This morning I was looking for eggs with a flashlight and somehow the fish got excited by it and started spawning right before my eyes! Really exciting to see how they swim in circles and disappear in the moss together...About on hour or two later I put the fish back in their own tank and I can now see maybe 10 eggs between the marbles (you really need to look closely with a flashlight, and I hope there are more in the middle where I cannot see). 

Now the wait has begun...I have left the glass blow with the marbles and moss as it is, I guess that's OK or is there a chance that there isn't enough water movement to keep the eggs healthy? Besides the bowl there are two pieces of anubias (with really long roots) tied on rock, a couple of rocks, catappa leaves and floating plants. No substrate. I have JBL NobilFluid, vinegar eels and microworms, are these enough to start with or would it be wise to start an infusoria culture? I have guinea pigs so have hay and pellets...And how about water changes, should I wait now or change a little more often?

So excited, really hoping to see wigglers in a few days!


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## tam (15 Dec 2018)

Awesome! Good luck with the wigglers. 

Are they just regular marbles? I wonder if sticking a bowl like that inside the regular tank would work to collect too.


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## sparkyweasel (15 Dec 2018)

Yes to the infusoria, best food for the first few days, then the microworms when the fry have grown a bit.


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## Majsa (16 Dec 2018)

tam said:


> Are they just regular marbles? I wonder if sticking a bowl like that inside the regular tank would work to collect too.



Yes, they are, I borrowed them from my sons. As you can see I carefully selected only green ones for the most natural look 

I am sure sticking a trap inside the regular tank would work too, I read people doing this and getting much more eggs this way. I found a separate tank OK for my purposes, don't need a lot of fry and I was able to select one of the nicest males (there are a few with unusual markings on their fins). 



sparkyweasel said:


> Yes to the infusoria, best food for the first few days, then the microworms when the fry have grown a bit.



So I started two infusoria cultures today, one with escarole (didn't have lettuce) and another with timothy hay + tank water. Both have a couple of floaters in there too. Does this sound about right? Will they be ready on time? First time trying...


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## Majsa (18 Dec 2018)

There is life  I see a couple of fry attached to the glass now...

I bought a microscope last month and this seemed like a good moment to check the infusoria. The escarole one is almost clear now and saw some life in there, but not that much. The hay infusion is still cloudy and has more critters in there, but both cultures seem to contain almost only one species. Does anyone know what this is? I cannot find anything on Google...They are generally egg-shaped and move a small distance, turn around, keep on turning a short while or go the other way. Too bad I don't have another camera than my old iPhone, but managed to take this picture (400x) with the smart phone holder that came with the microscope.


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## tam (18 Dec 2018)

I find if I do a water change leaving the old water in a bucket and then rinse all my filter foams out in it the next 24/48 hours ish the water usually has a lot of what I presume is infusoria darting around - almost too tiny to see and I would guess more that is too small to see. Might be worth a go?


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## dw1305 (19 Dec 2018)

Hi all,





Majsa said:


> Does anyone know what this is?


Looks like it might be _Paramecium.


_
cheers Darrel


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## Majsa (19 Dec 2018)

Thanks Darrel, that's a fascinating tutorial!



tam said:


> I find if I do a water change leaving the old water in a bucket and then rinse all my filter foams out in it the next 24/48 hours ish the water usually has a lot of what I presume is infusoria darting around - almost too tiny to see and I would guess more that is too small to see. Might be worth a go?



The culture is now 3 days old so I guess it'll need time to develop. But this got me thinking, the cultures are both with water from the parent's tank. I topped up the "escarole" culture with water and limnobium from my (fishless) shrimp and snail tank, hoping it'll help the culture a bit.

I see some fry attached to the glass bowl and I think I saw one darting in the moss (but can't find him any more). I have not started feeding yet. It's been 5 days since the last WC, but the bottom looks quite dirty. Whats the best way to clean a tank with small fry in there? Can I just keep on doing regular water changes? I don't want to do the fry any harm!


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## tam (19 Dec 2018)

If you get a straw (or straw length of clear airline is easier), then put your thumb over one end and insert it into the tank to hover over the mulm, then let go the mulm will shoot into the straw, put your thumb back over and lift in out and over a jug and let go again - mulm drops into jug. It's basically a syphon but very small and easy to control.


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## Majsa (20 Dec 2018)

The first ones are swimming! 



tam said:


> If you get a straw (or straw length of clear airline is easier), then put your thumb over one end and insert it into the tank to hover over the mulm, then let go the mulm will shoot into the straw, put your thumb back over and lift in out and over a jug and let go again - mulm drops into jug. It's basically a syphon but very small and easy to control.



Thanks Tam, I tried that this evening (with a small WC afterwards) and it's really precise.


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## Majsa (11 Jan 2019)

I wanted to show you my fry! It's really difficult to photograph these tiny ones with an old iPhone, but they are there somewhere between the frogbit roots.

The oldest ones are now about 3 weeks old. It has been a learning curve, I lost about 50% in the second week but have still 9 left. These are growing and seem to be fine. I think I underestimated the amount of food the newly hatched fry need, not just in absolute amounts but how much there must be _available in the water column_ at any time...the fry don't really swim around looking for food when they are really small but rather stay on top and catch what comes by. Also estimating the amount of infusoria they need is really difficult. It also didn't help that I failed to reduce the filter flow in the first week, maybe it was all too hard from them  The latest losses were after a day I had put in two horned nerites from my shrimp tank. The tail of one fry turned into one white dot and another had something sticking out of his gill or side. I was afraid of white spot (which I've never had in my tanks as far as I know so that would have been strange) or something else the snails had brought so I removed the moss bowl, the leaves and the stones and vacuumed the (bare) bottom really well. I lost the two fry and one more went missing but since then everybody seems happy, fingers crossed.

I have been feeding the fry a lot more since the struggles. It is easier now that one can actually see the food and that the fry are eating. They are eating mainly microworms, some vinegar eels still and occasionally fresh BBS (a lot of work to culture). I am trying to wean them to Hikari First Bites and add tiny amounts to my Grässlin autofeeder for working days, but I am not sure if they really eat it or live on the worms I dump in in the morning. I hope they learn it soon as there are plans for a weekend trip...For now I am doing ±20% WC's every day to compensate all the feeding. Maybe it is raising fry for dummies (let them swim in food and fresh tap) but I am not fine tuned enough for anything else  The two pieces of anubias are easy to move around so siphoning the bottom is easy (with a small hose). Despite the cleaning there is still always some dirt around, as in the frogbit roots, I think very little actually goes to the filter due to the baby protect. The frogbit really hates all this clean water, it's growing really long roots and turning pale. I guess I'll swap some with the shrimp tank, maybe they'll recover.

It's a lot of work for these tiny ones but I'd be really glad if I can raise these to nice healthy CPDs who can then join the adult group.


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## Ed Wiser (12 Jan 2019)

So tiny. An cute.


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## tam (12 Jan 2019)

Well done - very cool!


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## Lee iley (12 Jan 2019)

Very cool well done? What type of fish are cpd? 
Cheers Lee


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## Sarpijk (12 Jan 2019)

Lee iley said:


> Very cool well done? What type of fish are cpd?
> Cheers Lee


Hi, 

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/celestichthys-margaritatus/


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## Majsa (21 Jan 2019)

So the fry are now about a month old and growing. Unfortunately two have developed a condition where they cannot swim properly but jump through the water like a rabbit, in 45 degree angle tail down...Something with their swim bladder? Overfeeding? I am still doing daily WC's. The first one has it a few days already and he's not getting any better (I isolated him in a breeder box with some moss in my shrimp tank, to give him some rest). Does anyone know if I can do anything to improve this (and prevent more fish from getting it), or should I put them out of their misery?  If there is any chance I'd like to learn how to help them...


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## Konsa (22 Jan 2019)

Hi
I used to see odd one like that when was breeding live bearers.It has nothing to do with overfeeding.There is nothing U can do to cure it.The fish will be able to survive and have a life if is not much food competition going  on but is not pleasing to the eye.
Regards Konsa


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## Majsa (22 Jan 2019)

Konsa said:


> I used to see odd one like that when was breeding live bearers.It has nothing to do with overfeeding.There is nothing U can do to cure it.The fish will be able to survive and have a life if is not much food competition going on but is not pleasing to the eye.



Thanks Konsa. The smaller one of the two was really not doing good (his spine was getting bent, got trouble eating) so I decided it's best to euthanise him  I am not sure about the bigger one, he's eating well so will keep an eye on him for now.


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