# RO water in planted aquariums



## matthewwoodgate (30 Jan 2021)

Hi all I‘ll be setting up a 20 litre nano cube in the next week or so. Will be planting 4 types of easy 
1-2Grow plants from tropica. I’m a window cleaner by trade so I always have copious amounts of RO water on the van. I’m thinking about using it with the addition of JBL Aquadur. Can anybody comment on the benefits, dosage of aquadur for plants, shrimp and a few small fish. The water here in colchester Essex is hard so just looking for advice. I also read about just mixing RO water with tap water to get a good balance. Any comments welcome please.


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## dw1305 (30 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


matthewwoodgate said:


> I also read about just mixing RO water with tap water to get a good balance


<"I use it">, it is a cheap option, and adds 1 : 1 dGH & dKH via dissolved limestone (CaCO3). You probably only need to add about 10% tap to give you enough hardness, but I don't have a set addition, I use a conductivity meter to keep me in the <"range I want">.

I've not used any of the commercial hardening mixes, but have a look at <"What remineralising....">.

cheers Darrel


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## aec34 (30 Jan 2021)

Don’t know about Aquadur, but as a relative newbie I use rain water for my 20l cube (planted and with shrimp), and remineralise it with Salty Shrimp. I tend to change about 6-7l total per week, made up of 5l rain and the rest tap - also hard water here. I also give liquid feed daily if I remember...  5 litres is just a convenient size for me in an old spring water bottle, and after 3 months of this regime my tank’s doing ok!
The amount of water I change means that buying off-the-shelf products really doesn’t break the bank, whereas those with much bigger tanks may do things differently - just something to bear in mind.


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## Zeus. (30 Jan 2021)

matthewwoodgate said:


> Can anybody comment on the benefits, dosage of aquadur


It benifits JBL profits, it adds only dKH





you could also do with adding some dGH also.

DIY Remineralisers can be tricky, but they are getting easier and cheap here's the cost compare for a 20l tank having a 10L WC and remineriliser added



and to compare the DIY clone of salty shrimp cost





So cost are not much for the year for commercial product. But much cheaper DIY

Only problem is RO water is it contains 'nothing' or close to nothing and your tap water has elements your plants need so if using RO water you will need to add them like eg Nickel (which most commercial ferts do *not* contain ) , however if you cut your tap water with RO water you kill two birds with one stone, lots of folk use a 50:50 mix, Unless you plan for more delicate shrimp there is no need to use RO water. For ferts a bottle of TNC complete should last a very long time. Money you save on remineralisers will buy a plant or two


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## Wookii (30 Jan 2021)

Zeus. said:


> It benifits JBL profits, it adds only dKH



I believe it’s an all in one actually Karl, per the list of ingredient it contains:

https://www.jbl.de/?mod=productpdf&id=5103&lang=en&country=gb (Page 5)



> Calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, magnesium chloride, sodium bicarbonate, potassium bicarbonate


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## Zeus. (30 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> I believe it’s an all in one actually Karl, per the list of ingredient it contains:
> 
> https://www.jbl.de/?mod=productpdf&id=5103&lang=en&country=gb (Page 5)


My mistake  🤬🤬🤬 - sorry about that folk



I remember adding it to the IFC calculator some time back then taking it off as due to the way JBL had split the Ion distribution in (w/w) per Anion or cation  made it a PITA to try and work out the w/w% by mass of the salt mix which enabled us to calculate the ppm per element and resultant dGH for each element. So wasnt happy with what we had so took it off
However now that I am in the process of doing a new remin sheet that uses a target dGH we have the Ca:Mg:K ratio so can get the Ca ppm Mg ppm and K ppm
Me gets busy .........


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

Zeus. said:


> Me gets busy .........



Well they have use Sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO₃) no other way to get as low a [K] without using it and it fits as Na accounts 32% of the cation distribution







Anions are about the same with a little use of some different salts

But the 4.5 [Ca] : 1.0 [Mg] : 1.3 [K] just isn't possible without using Sodium bicarbonate which we could add to the IFC calculator, but we wasn't keen as we didn't want to encourage the use of it, as we was concerned about high [Na] levels - I'm sure @dw1305 will enlighten us soon


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## matthewwoodgate (31 Jan 2021)

Sorry guys I’m no scientist🤨🤨 all the k g h c a m g etc etc mean nothing to me😂, with the jbl product are you able to give a doasge per litre to RO water with a TDS of zero to achieve parameters that are middle of the lane for plants and shrimp. There may be no sensible answer to my question but worth a shot. I’m seriously considering just cutting it with tap water 50:50 and see how I get on.


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

matthewwoodgate said:


> Sorry guys I’m no scientist🤨🤨 all the k g h c a m g etc etc mean nothing to me😂,



Sorry we got side tracked (it happens from time to time) but some times a simple question get us thinking and we all learn together, plus I am in the development stage of a Remineralising calculator which will enable more commercial Remineralising agents to be cloned.



matthewwoodgate said:


> I’m seriously considering just cutting it with tap water 50:50 and see how I get on.



IMO that is a better/simpler solution, then you will be getting a few elements for free, from Darrel's link I think he uses 90% rainwater to 10% tap water, with rainwater being natures 'free' distilled/RO water equivalent without the carbon footprint of distilled/RO water


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 Jan 2021)

Hi @matthewwoodgate

KISS answer to your question.

1.875g per 10 litres of RO will give you 2.5KH and 3.2GH. This is fine, good enough.

Your cube is 20 litres so 1.875x2 = 3.75g of Aquadur to 20 litres of RO to keep the 2.5KH and 3.2GH. Mix it in a jerry can in advance, it takes time to dissolve and your RO water will be cold. Warmer water, the quicker it will dissolve. You can give the can a good shake and if you make it up the day before just stick the jerry can near a radiator and let it get to room temp, it will be ready to go when you need it.

10l cube using Aquadur at 2.5KH and 3.2GH growing Ludwigia arcuata and Rotala macrandra:





A set of milligram scales is handy for measuring accurately as possible, doesn’t have to be an expensive set but choose something that comes with a calibration weight. These are £20 and good enough if you’re looking:







A 25 litre jerry can for making the water up is also helpful to get your Aquadur dissolved and water to temp before doing a water change. Pretty sure you know what a jerry can is but in case anyone doesn’t know I mean this:





So for a full 25 litre jerry can of RO it’s 1.875x2.5 = 4.6875g of Aquadur in to get 2.5KH and 3.2GH.


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## matthewwoodgate (31 Jan 2021)

Thank you Geoffrey. Exactly the answer I was looking for. Basically stealing your knowledge of using the product I have bought although I do like a good discussion so thank you all for your comments and help.
One other thing😬 or should I start a new thread?? I can’t afford a proper co2 system yet so what are your thoughts on TNC carbon? There are So many opinions of liquid carbon...🤪


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

The only slight concern I have ATM with JBL Aquadour is the resultant Sodium levels of 11.9ppm Na (by my calculations), done a little reading and Sodium isn't regarded by some as fish friendly, Maybe @dw1305 can enlighten us on the subject?

Nice nano tank @Geoffrey Rea and the [Na] giving no issues I hope 

(Edit -corrected error in [Na] from 15.5ppm to 11.9ppm)


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 Jan 2021)

Ideally would rather not bulk out with sodium @Zeus. but will attest I’ve never had any evidence it’s been problematic using Aquadur either.

For other tanks in the house targeting specific KH and GH I use the same as many others for the flexibility:





The nano is just a test tank for various things. 10 litre nano keeps it economical and knowing the exact water volume including substrate displacement and filter makes standardising inputs easier.

If you want to know more about remineralisation @matthewwoodgate it’s worth checking out James’ Planted Tank:



			James' Planted Tank - Re-mineralising RO Water
		





matthewwoodgate said:


> should I start a new thread??



Start the thread.


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## dw1305 (31 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


matthewwoodgate said:


> Sorry guys I’m no scientist


Yes, you don't really need to know how all the bits line up, I like to know, but I'm also pretty lazy so I actually tend to take <"the route of least resistance"> for my own tanks. @Geoffrey Rea's seems a very good suggestion.


Zeus. said:


> Darrel's link I think he uses 90% rainwater to 10% tap water, with rainwater being natures 'free' distilled/RO water equivalent without the carbon footprint of distilled/RO water


Yes, that is about it. Because <"we have very consistent tap water"> (it is from a deep, limestone aquifer) I know pretty much exactly how hard it is. Our rain-water is actually a lot more variable and is a lot softer in the winter (when it rains more). For most people their tap water will be much more variable, with lower hardness in the winter, for the same reason.

That is why I suggested a conductivity (TDS) meter, it does away with a lot of weighing. The great advantage of using the conductivity (TDS) meter is that it doesn't really matter whether your tap water is variable, you just aim for your conductivity range. 

If I was re-mineralising RO water with our tap water, I'd aim for about 100 microS (64ppm TDS) at 25oc. After that I'd add a bit more dGH via "Epsom salts" in the fertiilser mix.


Zeus. said:


> done a little reading and Sodium isn't regarded by some as fish friendly, Maybe @dw1305 can enlighten us on the subject?


My guess would be that this amount of sodium (Na) isn't going to bother fish or plants, once you are away from <"real blackwater"> fish <"and plants">. Hard water will naturally have some sodium present and volcanic regions could have a lot (like <"Lake Tanganyika">).

cheers Darrel


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