# Substrate and sand



## Anagorn (12 Jan 2016)

Hi all,

For my new tank, I'm searching for answers on how to do it right..

I've bought sand as the main substrate (0.7mm-1.2mm), and I want to use the EI index methods for my plants.

Is it still necessary to add a extra substrate on the bottom? Tropica Growth Substrate for example? Or is this overkill?

On both sides of my tank I want to create a slope, so I wonder if the extra substrate even will reach the roots of my plants..

Love to hear your tips and remarks about this!


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## Julian (12 Jan 2016)

I'm sure it would benefit plants on some level if you were to use another layer, but If you're dosing ferts into the water column, the plants will feed off this so a soil substrate is not necessary.

If you do decide to add a bottom layer, keep in mind that it will eventually mix with the sand, so it would be best to find a way to separate them. I've seen tights and stockings being used before.


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## Martin in Holland (13 Jan 2016)

To have a substrate that release nutrients slowly will be a benefit for root feeding plants and lets not forget when you go on a holiday.


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## Anagorn (13 Jan 2016)

Thanks for your replies!

So it would be wise to add a substrate layer.. If I put the substrate in stockings on the bottom of the tank and then add the sand, that's ok right?
It still will be able to release it's nutrients


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## Tim Harrison (13 Jan 2016)

Or you could use a soil retainer - a sheet of fine plastic mesh, the type usually used for greenhouse shading. Plants will naturally extend their roots down through the sand cap and soil retainer and in to the soil substrate below, often in a matter of days. The phenomenon is known a geotropism and occurs in response to gravity. The advantage of using a soil retainer is that it minimizes any soil disturbance and resulting turbidity during aquascaping, and ongoing maintenance.

If you're going the soil route check out the tutorial section


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## Anagorn (13 Jan 2016)

Thanks for your explaination!
So I do need a soil substrate for the plants to root correctly?

It's a good tip, going to use it for sure. I just have to see what's available here in the Netherlands  And I'll check the tut section!


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## Anagorn (13 Jan 2016)

On and what substrate would you advise? Tropica Growth Substrate is quite expensive, I saw.

Is every substrate ok, or is it worth paying a bit more?


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## alto (13 Jan 2016)

Tropica GS is excellent but you can also use mineralized soils if you don't want to use a commercial mix.

There are several discussions on the soil/topsoil use

What other substrates are available to you?


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## Tim Harrison (13 Jan 2016)

Mineralised is good and it has its advantages - but the process of mineralising is messy and a lot of work, or you can just use potting compost as is and let it mineralise in situ.
Either way, there are a few provisos with choosing the right compost but it's all in the tutorial...http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-soil-substrate-or-dirted-planted-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/

P.S. potting compost is very cheap and effective.


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## alto (13 Jan 2016)

I was looking for the how to guide for mineralizing soil - with photos - but although I stumble across it occasionally, I never seem to find it when looking


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## Tim Harrison (13 Jan 2016)

Haha...guess what?...there's a bit on it at the end of the tutorial...

For more info Google "Aaron Talbot MTS" and hey presto http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/library/52554-how-mineralized-soil-substrate-aaron-talbot.html


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## Anagorn (13 Jan 2016)

alto said:


> Tropica GS is excellent but you can also use mineralized soils if you don't want to use a commercial mix.
> 
> There are several discussions on the soil/topsoil use
> 
> What other substrates are available to you?



To name a few:
Dennerle DeponitMix Professional
Dennerle Nutribasis 6 In 1
Deponitmix Professional 9 In 1
Tetra Complete substrate
JBL AquaBasis plus
Fluval Stratum for plants and shrimps

But to be honest; I can't really tell which one is better than the other..

Both thanks for the links, I'm going to read the topics!


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## alto (13 Jan 2016)

You're just looking for one that is meant to be a 2-3cm layer beneath sand/gravel etc, these are usually very nutrient rich compared to the Aqua Soil types that can be used 5 - 20 etc deep, the former will usually crumble very easily & may contain nutrient salts as well, they will often "cloud" the tank even when only slightly disturbed; Aqua Soils tend to have a much firmer structure
 (I believe Fluval & Aquabasis are in this category - look for phrase "does not need to be combined with gravel" - one would not say this about Tropica GS )


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## Anagorn (13 Jan 2016)

The JBL AquaBasis plus has indeed the phrase 'does not need to be combined with gravel'. So that's probably what I'm looking for, right?


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## alto (14 Jan 2016)

Sorry for the confusion - if you're wanting a nutrient rich base layer such as Tropica GS, you don't want to use a product that can be used without sand/gravel etc
ie the JBL AquaBasis plus is more akin to an Aqua Soil which can be used instead of sand/gravel etc

Just to be more confusing, there are some that do use Aqua soil as a base layer under a sand/gravel layer - in this instance you'd want to use a "soil retainer" else the nice floaty Aqua soil would (likely) gradually make it's way to the upper levels, you'd also use a deeper layer than the 1-2cm suggested for Tropica GS


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## tim (14 Jan 2016)

The jbl aquabasis plus needs to be capped with gravel, it's a base layer not a complete substrate


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## Anagorn (14 Jan 2016)

Thanks for your replies, makes everything a whole more clear!
I understand it now 

So the jbl aquabasic is also not an option.  
Probably I'll just go with the EI index then


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## Tim Harrison (14 Jan 2016)

Don't be too hasty to dismiss soil and its synergistic benefits...
...http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...-tank-a-how-to-guide.18943/page-2#post-196219


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## Anagorn (14 Jan 2016)

Good point! And indeed a good discussion, interesting to read (even tough it's sometimes quite complex material in a non-native language )

One thing caught my eye: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/attachments/soillayerwithmoundinlay_zps985e52ab-jpg.50575/

Can you use tights as a soil retainer for my aquasoil? In that case, I could create a bottom substrate as displayed in the upper right picture


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## Tim Harrison (14 Jan 2016)

You could do...but those are filter media bags filled with inert gravel to create higher levels. The soil went on top covered by a soil retainer and then capping substrate (gravel) on top of that.
You're doing well with the non-native language...It's a typically English response I know, but I always feel somewhat lacking because I wish I could communicate in another language as well as you and the rest of our European cousins do...but then again I have an excuse - I'm lysdexic...


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## Anagorn (15 Jan 2016)

Oh I thought it contained the aqua soil! Thanks for explaining the process.
I'll do it in a similar way then using tights on the bottom.

Would this be an option as a soil retainer? https://www.wildkamp.nl/is-bin/inte...arola-Wildkamp/nl_NL/images/normal/900506.jpg

Sorry for all the questions!

And you don't have to apologies, I'm already glad you take the time to answer everything


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## Tim Harrison (15 Jan 2016)

You're better off using mesh with a gauge of around 2-3mm to allow the roots to penetrate easily, like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardman-Gre...94&sr=8-1&keywords=gardman+greenhouse+shading


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## alto (15 Jan 2016)

tim said:


> The jbl aquabasis plus needs to be capped with gravel, it's a base layer not a complete substrate


Except JBL shows tanks using this product as a complete substrate  - I think this is the same product as in a previous discussion & OP confirmed with JBL


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## alto (15 Jan 2016)

Anagorn said:


> Sorry for all the questions!


Questions are great


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## Anagorn (15 Jan 2016)

I found out my lfs has Colombo Flora-Base in stock, so I'm going to pay him a visit tomorrow!


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## Tim Harrison (15 Jan 2016)

That's a good product, I've used it before, it should work well, it's very similar to Amazonia.


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## alto (15 Jan 2016)

Anagorn said:


> Colombo Flora-Base


George Farmer has done some recent setups with the Colombo product line -
this topic includes a step-by-step video that you may find helpful
(you can also follow the youtube link to his video channel )


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## Anagorn (15 Jan 2016)

alto said:


> George Farmer has done some recent setups with the Colombo product line -
> this topic includes a step-by-step video that you may find helpful
> (you can also follow the youtube link to his video channel )


Going to check it out, thanks!


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## John S (20 Jun 2016)

Troi said:


> Or you could use a soil retainer - a sheet of fine plastic mesh, the type usually used for greenhouse shading. .....



Would this be OK ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREENHOUS...666836?hash=item3392b4fcd4:g:LXwAAOSw7NNT0n4d


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## Tim Harrison (20 Jun 2016)

I'm not sure, I think others may have used to to good effect. I use this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2m-Gard...736029?hash=item3f61eb155d:g:PNcAAOxyOypSZT3D


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## John S (20 Jun 2016)

Thanks Tim.


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