# Is my wpg ok on 260 litre tank?



## Pinkmummy79 (31 Mar 2013)

I have a Fluval Vicenza 260l tank currently lit by 2 x 39 W T5's with reflectors.

are my calculations correct and is my lighting ok as I am suffering some ongoing issues and trying to rule out certain things like flow/circulation, c02 distribution and lighting.

260 l = 67.6 US Gallons
2x39w = 78 watts
78 / 67.6 = 1.15 wpg? am I doing this right?

I have presurised c02 running from a 2kg FE, JBL adjustable pressure reg and solenoid running 3bar pressure through an easy aqua super atomiser, co2 is running from 2pm til 9.30pm with lights on at 5pm and off at 11pm (6 hr photoperiod) drop checker is yellow at lights on and at max for fish/shrimps.

Filter is fluval 305 which isn't great for flow/distribution but is doing great job filterwise, due to the possible low flow/distribution I have added 2 x powerheads at each end of the tank to aid this, c02 bubbles can be seen all over tank with good sway/movement to flora.

Dosing ei solution 5 days and carry out 50% water changes at least weekly, but have been doing 2 x weekly 50% changes for past 3 weeks, am suffering with some bba and staghorn on bogwood and some plants, i've also been adding double dose of Neutro c02 liquid c02 for the past 3 weeks, it's difficult to spot dose this to the hardscape as it's quite large and in order to reduce the water level to gain access to the bogwood I would need to remove approx 190 lites of water.

I'd like to know if my lighting is too high as I can't increase my bubble count of co2 it's running so fast at the moment i can't count it. Some of my plants have just started to melt, losing leaves, becoming translucent an have holes in them, if my lighting is too high I can obviously reduce the co2 to try and balance things better if I had lower wattage lights, i've tried to read everything I can especially from Clive and I know it points to c02 uptake? but i'm unsure now of what to tweak to try and make things for the better.

Tubes i'm using are 2 x 850ml Sylvania 39W T5, tank is 260 litres and 4 foot

any direction would be greatly appreciated

oh, and i've now been test kit free for 2 weeks and feeling great!


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## Henry (1 Apr 2013)

What method of co2 diffusion are you using? Which plants have melted?


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## martinmjr62 (1 Apr 2013)

Hi,i'm certainly no no expert on lighting (not even sure mines ok) but from what i've learnt in the short time that i've been keeping a planted tank is that the flow and distribution of the c02 is very important. I would say that one 305 on a 240 litre tank is not enough ,i run 2 405's on my Jewel Rio180. Also you mention that you have 2 powerheads at each end of the tank. If i read this correctly i take it that you have 1 powerhead each side but if this is the case and they are pointing at each other you will get conflicting flow in the tank .Is the 305 running a spray bar or an outlet. I'm sure that others on here with far greater knowledge and understanding will also give you advice. Your co2 sounds ok but it probably isn't reaching everywhere it needs to
Hope this helps
Stick with it, i assure you it does get easier 
Cheers
Martin


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## Pinkmummy79 (1 Apr 2013)

as mentioned co2 is being diffused through an easy aqua super atomiser creating a very fine mist, both powerheads are positioned so the flow is in a circular direction clockwise to assist the filter outflow pipe in the same direction, flow is good all around the tank, as my tank is drilled, my filter outflow is in a fixed position although I can direct the nozzels wher I want, I haven't been able to source a suitable spray bar and as the filter on it's own isn't powerful enough, hasn't the velocity to provide the push needed for the length of the tank (4 feet) I have tried with the option of powerheads to improve flow and distribution.

anyone know if my lighting is suitable?

cheers


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## Michael Gilmore (1 Apr 2013)

Hi ,
Small yellow dots that develop into holes especially in older 
leaves, are a symptom of not enough potassium
Holes in plants is Usual signs of Nutrient deficient see this : Re: HOLES IN LEAVES

I would suggest an Atomizer that goes on the outline hose of your canister filter you are sure that all water has equal CO2 then and much more efficiant also as all CO2 is dissolved this way	*Co2 Atomizer like :  UP New Aquarium Co2 Atomizer System Hose D508-08 / D508-12 / D508-16 | eBay*


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## Pinkmummy79 (1 Apr 2013)

Thanks Michael, I have purchased one of these and also some Eheim hose to replace my current ribbed fluval so I can set this up, this is my next plan of action, thanks for confirming this should assist with c02 distribution.

I have been dosing Neutro Plus liquid carbon at 10ml per night to try and combat the bba and staghorn, the staghorn went red over night on Friday, I had done a 50% water change Thursday evening as i've been doing 2 weekly changes to try and combat the algae, Friday morning first thing I noticed was that the staghorn all over the bogwood was red so it was dying, but I've been double dosing liquid c02 for 3 weeks with no immediate results apart from a possible slow down in staghorn new growth, so I asked myself why would this happen overnight? To me, a novice this suggested a c02 overdose? Checking my regulator and FE, they are fine and haven't emptied into the water column, FE bottle pressure still reading 50. Throughout Friday and Saturday I started to notice my plants deteriating rapidly, they are breaking down!

I completed a further 50% water change Saturday and have been sat watching since.

Due to my large water changes, I have ignored my 5 day ei regime and have continued to dose both Macro and Trace on alternative days so as to not let there be a lack of nutrients in the water, I presume this is correct?

I'm dosing EI in solution, Macro on Mon, Weds and Fri with Trace onTues and Thurs, weekly 130 litre (50%) water changes on Mondays before the start of my EI cycle. Calculation of EI is based on the fluidsensoronline.com/calculator/ei for a 260 litre tank, I've really been trying to do my best, I don't mind at all putting in time to keep the water condition pristine and just can't work out what has happenned to my plants, the following plantshave been affected with a sudden change over a couple of days, translucent leaves, holes everywhere and leaves just falling off at will..

Plants are:
Hygrophila angustifolia (leaves translucent and large leaf loss suddenly)
Clinopodium Brownei ( leaves have darkened and look crumpled, whole plant new and old leaves)
Bulbs - Aponogeton Boivinianus (leaves have holes throughout top 4 inches, look really thin and translucent, like ladderred stockings!)

I make a note in a notebook each day I dose anything and record how much of what and what time, I do this religiously , I know I only dosed 10 ml of liquid c02 on the evening before this happenned, I also dosed a 130ml Trace Solution n fed a tiny pinch of crumbled flake for my rasboroas, Filter has been checked and appears fine, no blockages, no mantenance required at the moment, filter floss changed only.

I'm continuing to dose ei daily and also liquid c02, things today seem to have at least levelled off in that there is vast damage to the plants mentioned which no doubt will lose the leaves that are affected throughout this week, my hc, weeping moss and fire moss seem unaffected as do the anubias nana and cyperus helferi.

I'm at a loss and pulling out my hair at the moment.


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## Michael Gilmore (1 Apr 2013)

Hi ,You say "_I know I only dosed 10 ml of liquid c02 on the evening before this happenned_" id say its a bad idea im no expert but should be in Morning when lights are on . CO2 helps prevent Algae from what i believe ,have you checked phosphorus and other nutrient levels in water as its easy to overdose these , as unless there being used etc.. and you add more  ? get a good test kit JBL do a good one

Use a Syringe with Excel Flourish and squirt directly at algae problem areas can help also as it will kill it....worth a try ,i have done this with good success

May i suggest the following livestock , Bristlenose pleco , Amano Shrimps ,  _*Otocinclus ,(siamese Algae eaters(Crossocheilus siamensis) ,*_ Bristlenose pleco_Ancistrus cirrhosus )_ love bb & staghorn algae )

I have these and they do a great job keeping plants in great shape

Good Article here Algae prevention in your planted tank | Features | Practical Fishkeeping

Another one  : Algae Control in freshwater planted aquariums - Yamato Green

Good Solution to try here : Algae Control in Freshwater Aquariums!


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## ceg4048 (2 Apr 2013)

Hello,
		I agree 100% with martinmjr62's advice. Poor flow and distribution in this tank is the root cause of the CO2 related faults. The OP is encouraged to rework the configuration of the filter outlets and powerhead positions. Having flow outlets pointed at opposing directions is self defeating.

Cheers,


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## Pinkmummy79 (2 Apr 2013)

Thanks guys,
I have been concerned with the c02 distribution and flow, hence why I purchased the 2 powerheads, it still isn't right obviously so i'll take on board your valuable advice after all that's what I was hoping for and why I asked the questions...
I'll start by changing my pipes from the ribbed fluval to the eheim and add the inline atomiser over the next few days and also look to purchase a spray bar for the existing filter,  I know this filter isn't the best for flow/velocity and I could do with a second to run the other side of the tank, i'll keep my eyes on the clasifieds for a good used one with the plan to use that with a spray bar too, in the meantime i'll move the powerheads to the rear glass and point towards the front to create the flow hopefully required.
thanks again


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## Pinkmummy79 (2 Apr 2013)

My thread is now proably in the wrong section as it's encompassed a few issues now, so if the Mods wish to move it then please feel free.

One last question if I may, if i'm looking to improve filtration and circulation with an improvement over my 305, would it be better to look for a suitable addition to my existing filter to run from the other side of my tank, or would one larger filter capable of running a spray bar the full length (4 feet) be better? something like an FX5 perhaps? I'm just trying to get things square in my own mind before I start window shopping if that makes sense. I have considerred the APS cannister filter which runs 2000 lp/h in addition to my 305 which would bring me near to the 10 x rule, this seems to be good value for money too, then I could possibly do away with the circulation pumps all together? Obviously with two filters I can run a spray bar and extension of each to try and meet the total length of the tank.
thanks again


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## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2013)

Hello,
		  It doesn't really matter in the long run whether you use additional supplementary filters or a single large filter. My choice is always to use the single most massive and muscular filter I can afford because it greatly simplifies installation and reduces the level of complication. The FX5 would be great for this tank but then again, there are no stock spraybars for the 25mm piping it uses, so you would have to fashion your own spraybar using PVC or acrylic. I cannot guarantee however, that it will develop sufficient flow rate to properly power a 4 foot spraybar.

Cheers,


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## martinmjr62 (3 Apr 2013)

Hi again, if it was me i would purchase another 305   and run them with identical media setups that way there shouldn't be an imbalance either side which could occur if one filter has a higher output than the other . you could also still run a single powerhead in the middle or one either side next to the outlet or spraybar. 
In my Rio180 i run 2 identical 405's both running the fluval outlet pointing very slightly inwards and a koralia 900 in the middle of the back wall and it seems to be working really well for me,plants are all healthy and growing well and i'm running 2 x 54w t5's and an additional 25w arcadia tropical.
Cheers
Martin


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## Pinkmummy79 (3 Apr 2013)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> It doesn't really matter in the long run whether you use additional supplementary filters or a single large filter. My choice is always to use the single most massive and muscular filter I can afford because it greatly simplifies installation and reduces the level of complication. The FX5 would be great for this tank but then again, there are no stock spraybars for the 25mm piping it uses, so you would have to fashion your own spraybar using PVC or acrylic. I cannot guarantee however, that it will develop sufficient flow rate to properly power a 4 foot spraybar.
> 
> Cheers,


Thanks for the advice Clive (seems strange addressing you with my own name!)
I've done some research on the FX5 and unfortunately it won't fit inside my cabinet, so it's a non starter as the tank takes pride of place in the lounge.



martinmjr62 said:


> Hi again, if it was me i would purchase another 305 and run them with identical media setups that way there shouldn't be an imbalance either side which could occur if one filter has a higher output than the other . you could also still run a single powerhead in the middle or one either side next to the outlet or spraybar.
> In my Rio180 i run 2 identical 405's both running the fluval outlet pointing very slightly inwards and a koralia 900 in the middle of the back wall and it seems to be working really well for me,plants are all healthy and growing well and i'm running 2 x 54w t5's and an additional 25w arcadia tropical.
> Cheers
> Martin


 
Hi Martin, I think i'll follow your set up, or the same principles anyway, i've managed to find a brand new 406 for a misely sum of £40! it will cost me half a tank of diesel though as I will have to pick it up at the weekend from Portsmouth and I live at Weston Super Mud, but a day out with the kids too so everyone's a winner.
I'll run this alongside my 305 until I can find another 406 to match, spray bars here I come yeh!

As ive never run two filters together, re seeding the new filter, as my 305 is rammed to the hilt with 3 trays of ceramic noodles, can I just put one tray load into the new filter and new additional media in the remaining trays to seed it?  I suppose what i'm asking is by doing this I know there is some mature media in the new filter and I presume the new additional media will take a few weeks to mature but will this start a mini cycle at all?  will I expect to see some issues or should it be fine so long as I continue my weekly water changes and ei dosing as usual etc..
thanks
Clive and Fran


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## martinmjr62 (3 Apr 2013)

Hi Clive ,yes that should be fine.Originally i had a 405 and a very much lower powered Eheim2213. I managed to get a brand new 405 unused on ebay for £70.All i did was use some of the media from the Eheim in the new filter and the rest was all brand new stuff. Both of my filters run identical media and both of them have a bag of purigen in them to keep the water gin clear.As i said earlier, i am running outlets and not spray bars and it all seems to be working for me. I was running a full length spraybar (3foot) on the original 405 but it seemed to loose its forward momentum and the Eheim had an outlet, but when i changed over to the second 405 i decided to use the outlets on both.A couple of fish shops i use have a planted tank and they both use 2 outlets on 2 filters and their tanks look very healthy and lush so i thought if it works for them then i'll give it a go and if it looks like it's not working i can always change back to bars.So far everythings doing really well, lots of pearling and good growth but that could be because my light intensity is probably too high.My co2 diffuser is placed under the inlet strainer of 1 of the filters and sucks all the co2 into the filter where it's mulched up and distributed around the tank.apart from the old belching of built up gas it seems to work and the tank is also a lot clearer of bubbles (until it burps ) I dose EI macro/micro mix on alternate days, add 5 ml of easycarbo daily and do a 50%water change every Saturday morning
As i said at the end of my first post ,stick with it , it does get easier and more rewarding.I've only been doing mine since November 5th and the transformation is awesome.
On a different note, having clive make the comment he made earlier proves that all the reading and info that you take in and decifer pays off when you finally get to understand whats going on
Cheers
Martin


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