# T5 Light Bulb Changes



## Jakes (28 Nov 2016)

So i knew from reef keeping that fluorescent tubes need changing at-least once a year if not every 8 months.

Got a new tube for my Set-Up and decides to do a side by side comparison:

They are 39W Fluval Power Spectrums top one is 11 months old and the bottom one is New... a picture paints a thousand words.






Here is another view of the middle of the tubes for what its worth 




Hope this convinces someone to change their tubes 


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## ian_m (28 Nov 2016)

However using Juwel HiLite tubes. Tube on right is 30 months old and one on left is 6 months old. Possible slight differences in brightness, but hardly significant.




Why type of ballast are you using ? Modern electronic ballasts and starter should give over 20,000hour before the light starts falling.


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## mlportersr (29 Nov 2016)

Also just comparing apparent brightness can be deceiving. Spectrum is also important.

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## Jakes (29 Nov 2016)

> Why type of ballast are you using ? Modern electronic ballasts and starter should give over 20,000hour before the light starts falling.



Im using a Hagen 'Glow' T5 twin tube ballast also only a year old.




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## ian_m (29 Nov 2016)

mlportersr said:


> Spectrum is also important.


Spectrum is not important, contrary to all the marketing information, brightness is. The plants will adapt and use what ever light you supply.


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## mlportersr (30 Nov 2016)

Well I guess the botanists are wrong too. You clearly know more than they do...

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## Dantrasy (30 Nov 2016)

I took the same sort of picture a while back showing a new tube and one that was almost 2 years old (same tube side by side)


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## roadmaster (30 Nov 2016)

I change bulb's when they burn out and have spares for just such an occasion.
Other than  black light,I have yet to try a bulb or combination of bulb's that would not grow plant's in my low tech low light affair's.
Was a thread here at ukaps discussing "Spectrum matter's,or does it" that seem's relevant  but I cannot provide the link?


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## roadmaster (30 Nov 2016)

mlportersr said:


> Also just comparing apparent brightness can be deceiving. Spectrum is also important.
> 
> Sent from my P022 using Tapatalk



Near any bulb advertised as "Daylight" or "Full Spectrum " will grow the plant's just fine.
Plant's will indeed use whatever light they can.
This is not surprising to most, but is always  a matter of debate.
In the wild,plant's may only receive a couple hour's of high noon lighting before the  sun moves across the sky and plant's maybe find themselves shaded by other plant's or tree canopy above, and the plant's adapt to take advantage of all lighting lest they never grow large enough to shade other plant's nearby.
Spectrum can be tweaked to make some red plant's appear more red or to make viewing more pleasureable to our eyes,but as mentioned, daylight or full spectrum bulb's will serve the need's of the plant's just fine.


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## ian_m (30 Nov 2016)

If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ? Plants would adapt to the high pressure sodium spectrum and get monster growth due to massive light output. The main issue is colour temperature, these are only 2000K and plants look cr*p, lacking green, but hey ho they grow well.

So choose your lamp spectrum to make your plants look good and green and standing out to your eyes. Too higher K value (going above 8000K ?) and plants look bleached and washed out, too lower K value (below 4-5000K ?) and plants look dull. Plants don't really care too much, as explained above, they will make use of what ever light you supply.

Bit surprised the Fluval and Giesemann tubes haven't lasted very long. This is completely contrary to my experience with Juwel and Arcadia HO tubes. Maybe its just an issue with the "plant grow" tubes ?

Below is the life expectancy of an industry standard HO T5 tube, over 20,000 hours before lumen output drops below 90%.


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## kadoxu (30 Nov 2016)

ian_m said:


> Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ?


Hum... you know what I'm going ask now, don't you?!  

(Just kidding... I know it's easy to find the info on Google... not that I... crap... )


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## mlportersr (30 Nov 2016)

ian_m said:


> If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ? Plants would adapt to the high pressure sodium spectrum and get monster growth due to massive light output. The main issue is colour temperature, these are only 2000K and plants look cr*p, lacking green, but hey ho they grow well.
> 
> So choose your lamp spectrum to make your plants look good and green and standing out to your eyes. Too higher K value (going above 8000K ?) and plants look bleached and washed out, too lower K value (below 4-5000K ?) and plants look dull. Plants don't really care too much, as explained above, they will make use of what ever light you supply.
> 
> ...


I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter. A place I worked here in the US had a sign on the door:

In God we Trust: All others bring data...

Oh, but excuse me. I forget. You ARE the expert so we should all just sit quietly and listen.

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## roadmaster (30 Nov 2016)

Maybe sit quietly and read more is in order if knowledge is the goal.
PAR values are far more important than spectrum from plant's perspective..
Photo in my avatar for example, was operating under combonation of 10,000K/6700K bulbs(Hamilton) from old Reef tank.


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## ian_m (30 Nov 2016)

mlportersr said:


> I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter.


No I am only stating that spectrum matters only to your eyes, the plants don't care, which is why you can grow plants using sodium lights (as massive lumens per £) but they will look cr*p.


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## three-fingers (30 Nov 2016)

I've used tubes for years before changing, I typically only change them when they stop working. To me it doesn't really matter if they lose any brightness as long as the plants are growing healthily - I've never ever seen lack of light due to old dim tubes being a problem.  Most tanks have problems due to _too much light. _If your tank has no problems, providing more light will only increase growth speed (and nutrient demand).  The difference between an old and new tube should be negligible for our purposes, even if it isn't, lower light will cause no issues.

That said, just like Ian I'm surprised to see the difference in your Fluval bulbs within 11months, this would put me off buying Fluval bulbs if I didn't already avoid them because they are over-priced. Maybe it isn't so surprising as Fluval themselves recommend regular changing so it would be to their advantage to have short bulb life spans. I've never seen such a difference with the Phillips, Arcadia and Sylvania brand bulbs I'm using in electronic ballasts now.  I do notice such dimming in my T8 tubes on old magnetic ballasts...but as as mentioned I take no bother because the difference in PAR is negligible from a plant growth point of view.

If you want to frequently spend £££ on a brand name T5 tube for the sake of slightly more brightness then that's cool, but there are far more economical options to get more brightness, like investing in LEDs.  Or even just buying normal T5 tubes:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-ho-t5-fluorescent-tubes-update-with-photos.555/



mlportersr said:


> Well I guess the botanists are wrong too. You clearly know more than they do...
> 
> Sent from my P022 using Tapatalk


If you believe your assertion that spectrum is important with regard to aquarium plant growth - maybe try to back this up with references (or even an just explanation of your own understanding) rather than attacking experienced members with sarcasm?  This topic has been covered extensively and repeatedly on these forums though, so I would recommend you do a wee bit more searching and reading first .

You are not totally incorrect with the statement, "spectrum is also important". I thought this when I saw OP's picture. We are only seeing the result of photons the cameras sensors have picked up, the brighter tube may be emitting more photons that are visible to our eyes or the camera sensor, but perhaps useless or of negligible use to to the plants.

Spectrum can be important when growing a single species of plant too, such as growing tomatoes or cannabis indoors.  Tomatoes and cannabis can make use of a wide spectrum too and can adapt, so if your aim is to simply grow a plant, then the exact spectrum is not important at all. If your aim is to grow a certain dry weight of valuable cash crop working under very tight margins (like commercial production of tomatoes in greenhouses with supplemental lighting, or illicit production of cannabis in small indoor tents) then choosing the optimum spectrum of bulb for your particular plant species could mean the difference of thousands of £ profit, even if it is just 5% extra dry weight. _Even if it was_ possible to choose an optimum spectrum for our aquariums, we would only achieve slightly faster plant growth (or more algae), so there is less reason to wish for this.

However Ian is totally right as far as growing aquarium plants is concerned, there* is no optimum spectrum for aquariums* and how it looks to our eyes is more important. We grow so many different species, each one would have it's optimum spectrum depending on where it evolved and what photosynthetic pigments it can produce, also plants can produce different pigments in response to different lighting conditions (such as plants producing red carotene pigments when exposed to bright light).

Tbh due to so much erroneous and conflicting marketing information it is not an easy subject to understand and nobody should feel bad about being confused!


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## alto (30 Nov 2016)

ian_m said:


> If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ?


not here they don't anymore 



As mlportersr mentions, there is lots of plant science data discussing effects of spectra & PAR & PUR on plant growth ... those papers are just not convincing to the planted tank community


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## papa_c (30 Nov 2016)

three-fingers said:


> there* is no optimum spectrum for aquariums*



I would totally agree on this, not wanting to spend a fortune on T5 tubes, as an experiment I purchased from the local electrical supplies standard off the shelf Bell branded T5HO tubes costing £3.00each, I got 8 for the price of one Jewel T5! Proof is in the pudding as the seem to grow plants OK


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## Jakes (30 Nov 2016)

Well thanks for all the info on T5's, i was not expecting this much discussion . I guess in reef-keeping the spectrum and intensity of light is more important to Corals than a planted aquarium!

My corals used to suffer under a old Actinic tube but once I replaced it the corals were fine a day or so later.  Im new to planted tanks so this is all good new info 


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## kadoxu (1 Dec 2016)

Sorry guys, this is not actually topic related, but is something I really have to vent out...


mlportersr said:


> I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter. A place I worked here in the US had a sign on the door:
> 
> In God we Trust: All others bring data...
> 
> Oh, but excuse me. I forget. You ARE the expert so we should all just sit quietly and listen.


Mate, we are here trying to help each other... what you did right there is the best way to make someone not want to come here and help anymore... if you have a question about something, ask! Don't go and make wrong assumptions to judge the people that are actually trying to help!

We are here mostly sharing what we think, our experiences... we are not scientists (at least most of us)... we are not dictating laws of nature. We give opinions, and you should be smart enough to question them and apply them if you think they are good enough for you.

I don't completely agree with @ian_m in this matter, but I *respect *his opinion, since I have absolutely no proof that he his wrong. And even if I did, I would still respectfully try to correct him (and I'm pretty sure he would appreciate the input).

So, you should really follow @three-fingers advice and be a bit more respectful towards others...


three-fingers said:


> If you believe your assertion that spectrum is important with regard to aquarium plant growth - maybe try to back this up with references (or even an just explanation of your own understanding) rather than attacking experienced members with sarcasm?


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## Manisha (4 Dec 2016)

Hi all,
Bit late to the party/controversy about spectrum! I found Clive's post #34 interesting https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/is-this-normal-for-staurogyne-repens.35680/page-2#post-383568 - he includes photo's of plants grown at 10,000 8,000 6,000 & 4,000 kelvin...All lush & healthy ☺


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## ian_m (14 Dec 2016)

However it doesn't always go to plan....the tube from March 2015, which was virtually the same brightness as the 6 month old tube has suffered a premature failure.  Blown heater, which is strange as I thought modern electronic ballasts dont use heaters.






Whilst sorting this I noticed one of the other tubes, only a year old is not very bright now.  Has flickering section in middle, indicating a pressure loss. Upper tube is brand new out of box.




Compare the new tube (upper) with other year old tube, exactly the same brightness (once all the scale and dirt cleaned off the tube).


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