# New High Tech Setup - Sudden Algae Outbreak



## ScottW (13 Oct 2015)

Hi Everyone,

New to the planted tank scene and I was wondering if you could help diagnose a potential algae outbreak in my tank, it's a high tech setup compromising of the following


Tank specifications - ~425 liters, 60” x 18” x 24”

Lighting - 4x 54watt T5 on between 14:00 & 22:00 (8 hours), plus a cheap LED submersible light bar of eBay that was like £20.

*CO2 *- Pressurised (JBL Proflora m602 system),
just over 1bps and drop checker is green, with a inline CO2 Atomizer Diffuser. CO2 comes on at 12pm and off with the lights. PH is around 7.5, but need to calibrate my tester to make sure.

*Filtration *- 2x Fluval 406 external filters, output delivered by 2x spray bars.

*Temperature *- is around 27c, and I have 2x Hydor 300watt heaters.

*Water parameters* - _Ammonia _0ppm, _Nitrite _0ppm, _Nitrate _80+ppm, _pH _7.2, _KH _9 drops in the test tube 161.1 ppm, _GH _16-17 drops in the test tube (must be high as it's not on my scale!)
*These were all took using the API Master test kit and API GH & KH test kit.

*Fertilisation routine* - EI method micro and macro on alternative days ~100ml, Saturday rest day. Sunday 50% water change.

So the tank is now in its third week now, week one I started with daily 40-50% water changes, and week two onwards I added the CO2 system and started dosing EI ferts.
I also used the Fluval Cycle biological enhancer for 2 weeks to help build the bacteria up along with Fluval Aqua+ water conditioner, when carrying out water changes.

So I noticed that when I did my 50% water change on Sunday that on my Christmas moss (think it is), that I'm trying to grown on some bogwood had this brown stringy hair like algae, I got what I could off and I've come home today to find its spread like wild fire along attaching itself to the taller plants at the back of my tank, rocks and bogwood !  (See pics). 
I've also noticed I now have brown / green spots and patches appearing on the glass as well. I'm shocked of how this has spread within they likes of 18 hours as it wasn't that bad last night 

This is my first truly planted tank so the past few weeks my mind has been blown with the amount of work and information overload and a big learning curve.

From skimming through a few post on here I'm worried that I may have started my 8 hour photo period too long too early, so should I look at reducing this? The algae on the glass I'm thinking of positioning the spray bars so water flows down the glass better, not sure if that would help ?

Other than trying to get it out by hand which is not easy as it starts floating everywhere and is hard to catch, do you have any other ideas ? Will it go on it's own eventually ? Will it cause any harm ?

I know that algae can be a big problem on new setups, so hoping that you guys could lend some help, tips and advise how I can combat this. Just don't want to destroy my plants already.


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## foxfish (13 Oct 2015)

Did you really mean.... one bubble per second? that would have to be a big bubble for 400lt


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## ScottW (13 Oct 2015)

Just checked again and it's just a bit more than 1bps, almost 2bps. The drop checker is green which is on the other side of the tank to where the CO2 would be coming out of the spray bar.


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## foxfish (13 Oct 2015)

OK, even though most folk don't like to quote bps as it can vary from counter to counted depending on design, 2bps would be the sort of rate used on a 100lt tank.
Do you have the correct agent in your DC, perhaps move it to near the bottom but in any case I would strongly suspect you don't have enough C02 to match your light!


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## ScottW (13 Oct 2015)

I'm just using the JBL DC that came with the kit like wise with the bubble counter. I did look at a earlier chart that tells you how much CO2 is dissolved in the water based on PH and KH and it looks like it's 17ppm of CO2 using that method, so yes looks like your right there I may need to up it. Just getting to grips with it all. Do you think that could that be a contributing factor to this hair like algae has appeared due to an imbalance of light, CO2 and ferts ?


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## foxfish (13 Oct 2015)

If you don't have any fish then turn up the gas & drop the lighting to 6 hours.
Under ideal conditions with perfect flow & ferts  you might get away with 4-5 bps but I would guess you are going to need quite a lot more.
See if you can drop the PH one point by lights on.
You may end up lowering your light to compensate.
If you do have fish, then turn off two lights and set the other two to 5 hours & turn up the gas slowly, maybe 1bps every day but watch the fish!


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## ScottW (13 Oct 2015)

There's no fish in at the moment so will crank up the CO2, I do have it on a solenoid to go off with the lights so for tonight shall I just leave on the CO2 constantly and drop the light to 6 hours tomorrow ?
Thanks for your help btw


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## ian_m (14 Oct 2015)

Your light level is far far too high and too long for a tank just starting, you will get monsterous algae growth, which I assume is not your intention.

This table is a good start estimating light level, yours at 24" deep and 4 tubes is in the "too high" category (whoops).




So turn off half (or three) the tubes and run say 4 hours for first month or two until things settle down and you get control of your CO2 which is clearly deficient. I have 1-2 bps in 180litre so 1bps would have to be a monster bubble or CO2 is very low. Then slowly increase light level over next month. You can block light using tinted plastic, foil rings on the tubes, many ways to reduce the light.

If you can weigh your CO2 bottle, on digital scales, you should be aiming for at least 40-50gr CO2 a day based on my 180l using 20gr/day with a green/yellow drop checker.

You haven't stated your filtration, I assume it is over 4500litre/hour ? (the x10 rule).

As for existing algae, remove the stones and brush thoroughly or wash with liquid carbon.

Try to remove as much as possible using say a tooth brush. Plants can be dipped in diluted liquid carbon solution for a minute or two, to kill algae but be careful as if too strong or too long will kill the plant. I have recently used this on my plants after I got severe BBA algae after feeding too much, left fish feeder on 3 times a day rather than once. The BBA algae all turned red/ping after a day or two and was eaten by my otto's leaving the plants clean.


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## dw1305 (14 Oct 2015)

Hi all, 
Looks like a filamentous diatom (I think what we call "Synedra" really belongs to the genus _Fragilaria_ ). If you keep on manually removing it, it should go away of its own account after a while.   

cheers Darrel


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## ScottW (14 Oct 2015)

Thanks for the advice, are the plants likely to die off with only 4 hours of light a day ? I've also invested in another inline diffuser for my second external filter to allow for better distribution of CO2 around the tank. 

With regards to filtration I'm running 2x Fluval 406 filters so that should deliver ~2900 litre/hour. With the substrate, rocks, bogwood etc I probably have aprox 370 litres of actual water volume. Would a power head / wave maker assist to make up the difference in flow?


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## ian_m (14 Oct 2015)

ScottW said:


> Would a power head / wave maker assist to make up the difference in flow?


Yes, your two filters are not really enough to get good CO2 distribution, so you will likely suffer CO2 distribution issues.

Remember to buy a quality power head ie Koralia, as so much better than cheaper model (but 3 times the price). I have had two cheap Chinese ones, cost £15-£20 each, but both have now failed in under 3 years, one just stopped and other one now  "spins backward". Both were extremely noisy compared the £45 Koralia.

Where you place your Koralia (or two smaller ones) you will have to experiment to find the best flow/CO2 levels. I suspect two smaller koralia (900l/hr or 1600l/hr) located on back left and right of tank pointing forward would greatly aid flow. Can even put them on a timer so when CO2 is not on the flow is the tank is less.

I initially bought a power head as despite having 2100l/hr in a 180l tank there were positions in my tank (bottom left front in my case) where the drop checker remained blue compared the lovely green elsewhere and plants in this position started getting algae, all indicating poor CO2 distribution.


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## alto (14 Oct 2015)

I'd focus on
1) increased CO2 - note if tank receives much ambient light, you may want to run CO2 24/7 or set a longer CO2 period, with reduced levels while T5's are off, then increased CO2 beginning 1 h before lamps come on, then reduced CO2 (again) 1 h before lamps cycle off.
Note that once livestock is in, you'll want to increase surface agitation at night or have CO2 off.
Check for "film" on the tank surface as this impacts gas exchange.  

2) physical removal of algae, use a toothbrush or small bottle/straw cleaning brush

3) daily water changes - to remove those bits of algae that wander off everywhere

4) reduce photoperied to 5-6h - take note when your plants open/close leafs, depending on plant species this may be more/less obvious, also if there is enough ambient lighting you're unlikely to observe the "opening"    

5) 2 vs 4 lamps - this depends somewhat on the design of your light unit, which 2 lamps turn on together (or is each independent), look at how the light falls for each tube (set?), hardscape can produce heavily shaded areas so take this into consideration when determining lighting   

6) flow
I run my tanks at much less flow than is often recommended on this forum (look at Tropica tanks, ADA tanks for many examples of "low flow" aquaria)  so wouldn't bother with additional flow at this time, especially as plant growth/mass is fairly light
BUT 
as with lighting, hardscape can significantly impact flow.

Tall grassy plants are excellent indicators of flow, but you can also move a CO2 diffuser or microbubble-air stone (Twinstar is a great indicator of tank flow  ) about the tank & observe; adding in a good sized pinch of fish food (frozen brine shrimp is rather good at floating about the tank - thaw in a small amount of water first) should also work.

7) clean up crew - as your tank appears cycled, you might consider adding in a horde of shrimp (Amano, Cherry, "long-nose" ) & several otocicnclus
BUT
this would mean taking care with CO2 levels, also water changes to lower nitrates (especially when introducing new stock).


Which fish are you planning? if discus, I'd leave the tank temp, otherwise you might lower it to 24-25C.


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## ScottW (14 Oct 2015)

Thanks for the great advice ! 

I cranked the CO2 last night and when I came home there was thousands of tiny CO2 bubbles!! :/ dropped it back a bit now, but PH was reading at 6 and KH was 9 ! Out of the tap it's 7.5.

Without fish can you dose too much CO2 ? My dwarf hair grass carpet, some of the tips are going slightly brown and the stems are a yellowish green. :/ 

The lighting I have is derived by this kit from iquatics, (I was actually worried that I might not have enough light ! Clearly not the case lol ) but although it's one unit and one cable going into theres two plugs for power that provide to each bank of two lights. 

I have one of those power management systems by energenie that allows you to set timings on each individual plug, so is it worth only having say 2 on for a couple of hours then say all 4 on for a while and back down to 2 before lights off ? 

I can see some dead spots of flow on the far left and right sides / corners. So may invest in a small power head at a later stage. 

Nitrate is at about 30-40ppm today so nearly cycled, I will get some otto's in it once I have found the right balance with the CO2. 

Long term I would like discus, but just want to get it settled and may look around Xmas time of getting some in. 

Once again thanks for all your help, really appreciate it


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## foxfish (14 Oct 2015)

If you are using an inline diffuser for the C02 then you want to the whole tank filled with micro bubbles, termed as mist... no you cant overdose the plants with C02.


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## ScottW (14 Oct 2015)

Yeah it's an inline diffuser, so that's perfectly normal then ? I have ordered another inline diffuser as well so at least I can get the CO2 distributed via both spray bars.


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## foxfish (14 Oct 2015)

Yes that is how they work, not everybody likes the mist effect but, it certainly works!
You might want to study how to operate two diffusers ... unless you will be running two regs & tanks?


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## ScottW (14 Oct 2015)

To be honest this tank has ran my bank balance down a bit so a second tank and regs may need to be a purchase in the future. 

However I brought one of these along with 2 one way check valves, I assume I may need to crank the pressure up on the regs, but are there any other considerations I may need to be aware of ?


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## flygja (15 Oct 2015)

ScottW said:


> I'm just using the JBL DC that came with the kit like wise with the bubble counter. I did look at a earlier chart that tells you how much CO2 is dissolved in the water based on PH and KH and it looks like it's 17ppm of CO2 using that method, so yes looks like your right there I may need to up it. Just getting to grips with it all. Do you think that could that be a contributing factor to this hair like algae has appeared due to an imbalance of light, CO2 and ferts ?


The JBL dropchecker kit doesn't come with the 4 dKH solution, so you'd need to manually measure the KH and pH of your tank water for a more accurate CO2 reading based off the KH-pH chart.


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## ian_m (15 Oct 2015)

flygja said:


> The JBL dropchecker kit doesn't come with the 4 dKH solution, so you'd need to manually measure the KH and pH of your tank water for a more accurate CO2 reading based off the KH-pH chart.


There are in fact two types of JBK drop checker kit, I have had both. The older one, you used tank water & indicator (initially dark yellow), but you needed know your KH & pH (using another JBL kit) to know what reading the CO2 was or just use 4dKH water, which is what I did. The new JBL kit is just bromo blue.


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## ScottW (15 Oct 2015)

Yeah I think I have the newer JBL drop checker kit, it's this one.


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## ian_m (15 Oct 2015)

ScottW said:


> Yeah I think I have the newer JBL drop checker kit


The newer one is the one that says add 35 drops to checker and doesn't involve any tank water.


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## flygja (15 Oct 2015)

I stand corrected!


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## aaron.c (18 Nov 2015)

How are you getting on.  Would love to see how your tank is looking now


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