# Suggestions for peaceful softwater Cichlids that stay small . . .



## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

I'm looking at the possible stocking options for my next 1500mm tank. I'd like to potentially include a pair of Cichlids in amongst all the tetras and rasbora, however I'd want a species that stays under 5cm and aren't overly aggressive, particularly to other species. From what I have researched so far, most (particularly males) get larger than this, typically up to 7.5-10cm and above for most dwarf Cichlids which will be too large.

The only ones I have found are:


Apistogramma Baenschi - males max out at 5.5cm, but they are apparently fairly aggressive.
Apistogramma Trifasciata - again males max out at 5.5cm, but they are apparently also fairly aggressive particularly to one another.
Apistogramma Wapisana - this species appears to stay very small. There is precious little information on it that I can find, but appears to max out at around 4.5cm. It doesn't appear massively colourful (not that I'm looking for anything garish anyway). The bigger problem is it might be impossible to get hold of, and I can find no comment on its temperament.
Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi - Rams were an obvious initial contender which max out at 40mm and would be perfect, until I read their temperature requirements which appear to be too high, and the tank will be around 23 degrees. (I'm obviously aware of the issues with poor quality commercially bred fish and the need to source from a local trusted breeder).

I appreciate that I'm probably asking for the moon on a stick here, but I thought I'd ask to see if anyone has any suggestions before I discount the possibility of keeping any Cichlids in this tank completely.


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> the tank will be around 23 degrees.


Most apisotogramma would fit the bill. Borelli would be a good option, one of the more peaceful species. However if you’re going for a pair you’re always going to have defensive behaviour if they spawn. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue in a 150cm tank though


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

Conort2 said:


> Most apisotogramma would fit the bill. Borelli would be a good option, one of the more peaceful species. However if you’re going for a pair you’re always going to have defensive behaviour if they spawn. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue in a 150cm tank though



Thanks Conor, I had discounted Borelli, as I thought I had read males went to about 8cm, but I see Seriously Fish puts them at about 6.5cm, which might just be okay. I assume that that size, they're not a threat to Chilli's and other nano fish?

I understand they will defend a patch when spawning, and Cories in particular can come under fire. I will have a large shoal of Habrosus - are they likely to be at risk, or will they learn to keep out of the way?


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## Hufsa (18 Feb 2022)

My favorite little cichlid from way back in the days is Laetacara dorsigera


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## shangman (18 Feb 2022)

Personally I'm not a fan of any of the apistos on your list as they're quite aggressive and not beautiful enough to make it worth it. I would go with borelli, macmasteri or maybe agasizzii because they are just so beautiful. In a 1500 they do not look big and the scale won't be off.  It's a fact that apistos can be aggressive but it's really focused at each other rather than the other fish, and in a big tank they'll be more relaxed cos they'll have good territory.

My female will chase and lunge at very close fish when she's got a cave or babies out but the other fish are smart enough to realise to swim away, no other fish have ever got hurt from her. My males haven't cared at all about any other fish in the tank and ignores them, unless they've been recently added and he's just curious. My macmasteri male is 8cm and he's never tried to eat another fish, just shrimps on the menu. The only apisto I'd avoid for that is cacatoides with their giant mouths. Definitely get them when they're young too and after the other small fish are in so that idea of food is even less.

With the species you want I'm assuming you're softening the water somehow and then maybe you could try dicrossus, they're doing well in my 50/50 rainwater/tap tank, and I'll keep updating as they get older. 

If you go apisto with the habrosus cories they're so small I don't think it would be much of a problem, but I would provide lots of seedpods at different levels/heights in the tank so the apisto female can keep them away. You probably won't get any fry survival unless the tank is very heavily planted.


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> Thanks Conor, I had discounted Borelli, as I thought I had read males went to about 8cm, but I see Seriously Fish puts them at about 6.5cm, which might just be okay. I assume that that size, they're not a threat to Chilli's and other nano fish?


They should be fine. You’re going to struggle to find any dwarf cichlid with a male that only reaches 5cm though. Females yes but males will be larger. The smallest is probably apistogramma minima but you’ll have next to no chance of finding them. 

Dicrossus are a good option as they’re extremely peaceful, mine wouldn’t even eat tiger shrimp. But again the males get a fair bit larger than 5cm. 

I wouldnt overly worry about aggression in a tank that size with just a single pair of dwarf cichlids, there is a lot of room to get out the way.


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

Just stumbled across this old US site, that strangely didn't come up in any of my previous searches!:






						Apistogramma and Dwarf Cichlids in Aquarium
					

dwarf cichlids apistogramma microgeophagus apistogrammas



					www.dwarfcichlid.com
				




That's presented a couple more options:

Apistogramma Commbrae - looks the perfect size at 5cm max, and peaceful too apparently.
Apistogramma Rubrolineata - looks to be quite small, around 4cm, but there isn't much info on it, and it might not be easy to get hold of.


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

shangman said:


> In a 1500 they do not look big and the scale won't be off.



It's more the scale in relation to the other fish - maybe I'm overthinking it as usual!


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> My favorite little cichlid from way back in the days is Laetacara dorsigera



Thanks @Hufsa - they look good, that also led me to Laetacara Curviceps which is reportedly very peaceful too.


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> Just stumbled across this old US site, that strangely didn't come up in any of my previous searches!:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The males will all probably get bigger than what is listed there. Rubrolineata are also extremely rare and command a high price when they are available.


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

There is also no such thing as a peaceful cichlid when breeding, the closest you’ll get is dicrossus.


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## shangman (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> It's more the scale in relation to the other fish - maybe I'm overthinking it as usual!


Tbh personally I wouldn't worry with the apistos and small fish, I don't think it's something you need to worry about. The same with cories, I think it's a bigger problem with big cories than tiny ones, or other cichlids. My apistos do not like the sparkling gourami at all though, so maybe steer clear of gourami species. They get chased a lot. 

I don't think it's worth getting a very expensive, rare and not very colourful apisto for a slightly smaller size. If I were you I'd get a pair of agasizzii which have smaller mouths and are thinner than an apisto like a macmasteri. Or I would get a really nice group of like 8-12 dicrossus which I think would be gorgeous in that tank.


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

shangman said:


> If I were you I'd get a pair of agasizzii which have smaller mouths and are thinner than an apisto like a macmasteri.



How do the Agasizzii compare to Borelli in that respect?


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## dw1305 (18 Feb 2022)

Hi all,


Conort2 said:


> Borelli would be a good option, one of the more peaceful species


Best bet I think, easily obtainable, really nice fish and small and non-aggressive. I've been thinking about them recently as well, I kept them  <"a few years ago"> and regret getting rid of them.


> The only long term successes I've ever had were <"_A. cacatuoides_, _A. trifasciata_ and _A. borellii">,_ I don't mention the _borellii_ in that thread, but I had the same problems with them, nobody wanted the fry locally_._





Wookii said:


> Just stumbled across this old US site, that strangely didn't come up in any of my previous searches!


That is <"Bob Wiltshire's web site">, mentioned <"on this forum"> and <"full of good advice">.

cheers Darrel


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> How do the Agasizzii compare to Borelli in that respect?


I’d go with borelli over agasizzii, males are quite large. Probably similar in size to my lineata to give you an idea. I recon borelli males are a third or so smaller and peaceful as far as apistos go.


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## shangman (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> How do the Agasizzii compare to Borelli in that respect?


Agasizzii are more long and slim compared to the more rounded borelli shape, I think borelli are smaller though so mouth still not massive. Borellii are known as one of the most peaceful apistos, and agasizzii known as more aggressive. Borellii come in blue and yellow, agasizzii come in all sorts of colours and can be very jazzy. If it was me I'd get the agasizzii, but if you are new to apistos I would get the borellii. All apistos are lovely so you won't be missing out.


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## Djoko Sauza (18 Feb 2022)

One of my Dicrossus Filamentosus, this is the alpha so he asserts dominance over the others. He doesn't bother any other fish but he does go after cherry shrimps.


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## tam (18 Feb 2022)

Just as another option - maybe look at the badis/dario group. They are a smaller but similar looks.


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

tam said:


> Just as another option - maybe look at the badis/dario group. They are a smaller but similar looks.


Didn’t even think of those, great suggestion!


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## Maf 2500 (18 Feb 2022)

Another thing in favour of borelli, 23 degrees C is said to be right in the middle of their preferred temperature range, while for many of the other Apisto's it would be at the lower limit.


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## Wookii (18 Feb 2022)

tam said:


> Just as another option - maybe look at the badis/dario group. They are a smaller but similar looks.





Conort2 said:


> Didn’t even think of those, great suggestion!



Thank @tam , yeah Scarlet Badis we’re already on my fish list, are they technically Cichlids, as in should you not mix Badis with other Dwarf Cichlids?


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## Conort2 (18 Feb 2022)

Wookii said:


> Thank @tam , yeah Scarlet Badis we’re already on my fish list, are they technically Cichlids, as in should you not mix Badis with other Dwarf Cichlids?


Think they’re more closely related to labyrinth fish but look and behave exactly like cichlids. I wouldn’t mix them with dwarf cichlids as they’re too similar and wouldn’t be able to withstand any aggression. Although I could be wrong as it is a big tank.


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## ScareCrow (28 Feb 2022)

Borelli would get my vote. I wanted to get a pair for a while but could only find opals.

If you're not bothered about them breeding, although part of the appeal is their breeding behaviour you could just get a male, which would reduce aggression.

On my ever expanding fish wish list are peacock gudgeons. If you're not set on a cichlid they're small, colourful and have interesting behaviour when kept in a group.


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## Garuf (28 Feb 2022)

Sparking gourami maybe?


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## Wookii (1 Mar 2022)

ScareCrow said:


> Borelli would get my vote. I wanted to get a pair for a while but could only find opals.
> 
> If you're not bothered about them breeding, although part of the appeal is their breeding behaviour you could just get a male, which would reduce aggression.
> 
> On my ever expanding fish wish list are peacock gudgeons. If you're not set on a cichlid they're small, colourful and have interesting behaviour when kept in a group.



I have looked at gudgeons also - I’d like another bottom dwelling species to co-habit with my Habrosus cories.


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## Wookii (1 Mar 2022)

Garuf said:


> Sparking gourami maybe?



Good suggestion - I have looked that them before, but have also read some horror stories of their aggression. I also have the Chocolates already, so I’m not sure how they’d mix?


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## Garuf (1 Mar 2022)

Hmmmm. 
It’s probably fish dependant to some degree - the trio I had were very timid, ravenous, but timid. 

They do have a reputation for being a bit like a jack Russel that I do concede.


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## Courtneybst (1 Mar 2022)

Borellii would beat good option in my opinion. Small, peaceful and pretty.

I've got Macmasteri, Laetacara Curviceps and Dicrossus Filamentosus in a 120cm and any of those fish will look tiny in an 150cm. I don't think scale will be an issue!


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## greenbliss (1 Mar 2022)

I agree with @Hufsa’s suggestion of Laetacara.  I myself have dorsigera and think they are cracking  little fish and can be absolute characters. I love watching them bicker over food before swiftly retreating back into cover.


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## NatalieHurrell (7 Mar 2022)

I personally love Bolivian Rams.  Bit hardier than Germans.  Pretty peaceful.  Get to about 8cms.


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