# sks's tank redo



## sks (29 Dec 2007)

Well this is a journal of sorts (lets just say that my planted tank is a mess with lots of algae and a system that I hate  ).

So the present set up:

48" x 18" x 24" (L x W x H) acrylic aquarium
Eheim professionel II 2128 (sponge, efisubstrat and polymer wood), partial tee off to dupla external CO2 reactor
Eheim 2215 (sponge, polymer wool), pumping through rainbow lifeguard heating module (visitherm 300 watt heater controlled by Dennerle Duomat)
2 kg CO2 bottle with Dennerle regulator and aqua medic solenoid
Aqua medic CO2 bubble counter (and with hindsight will NOT be buying this thing again, there are better bubble counters out there)
Arcadia 48" T5 lighting (4x54 watts) luminaire

I will ditch the Dennerle duomat and Dennerle ph controller and install my aquatronica controller instead, this will be use to control temperature, timing of lights and CO2 solenoid and pH monitoring via the pH probe, the controller will NOT be used to control the solenoid base on readings from the pH probe, although I can probably program a min pH level cut off as a safety precaution. Using the aquatronica as a multi timer makes sense since you have one reference clock and not many when you employ multiple digital socket timers (and they do go out of sync with time).

I will also probably ditch both the professionel and the 2215 filter and replace them with 2 x 2217 for powerful water movement and also because I think the professionel is horrible

Not sure about the reactor/bubble counter arrangement. A beetle counter would be nice.

I originally wanted to use ADA Aqua Soil, but since it leaches ammonia in the first few weeks and I don't have a separate tank to house the fish for some time, I have to make do with ECO Complete. I've been told that it's a good substrate so we'll see.

No photos yet, plants coming in next week, off to get the ECO Complete today.


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## sks (3 Jan 2008)

doing the change today, photos soon.

I've a 54 litre tank for the fish, Jewel Record 60 if I'm not mistaken, this should provide me leeway for a few days just in case the plants don't arrive, they were suppose to come today.

Basically drained tank water into small holding tank, caught all the fish (tetras are very tricky!!) and got rid of the remaining water and substrate. Not a pretty sight as the following photos will show.


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## sks (3 Jan 2008)

plants did not arrive today, chased courier and they said the package was last on the list and somehow or other I just didn't get it today, despite paying for next day delivery of course. :? Well what can you do?

Onto the photos, time to gross you people out (well why not, so you can understand why I needed to change it).

Here's the tank with most of the water taken out, notice the lovely Dennerle heating cable that I will NEVER be using again:






This Jewel tank is used for housing the fish for a day or two (here's hoping the plants come tomorrow):





This is the Dennerle Duomat I've disconnected from the main tank and hooked up to control the little jewel tank:





Here's inside the tank as I was removing the quartz gravel and the deponit/sand mix, you can see my pH probe, and the stench was awful .





Here's the tank on the floor now ready to be moved upstairs to the bathroom to be cleaned:





finally got the tank in the bath, required two people, but it sure as hell is a lot safer to move than glass.  Note the lovely Pantene shampoo along with Johnson's and Johnson's baby shampoo. Pantene claims to "combat common hair issues like split ends, thinning hair, and dry/damaged hair" and Johnson's has "no more tears", don't you know they're fantastic at cleaning acrylic.   





two hours scrubbing:





it all collects at the bottom:





and finally clean at last, 4 hours toil in total:


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## daniel19831123 (3 Jan 2008)

nice cleaning job there mate! You don't happen to provide that service regularly do ya? Would need some help with my window


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## Ed Seeley (3 Jan 2008)

What a great cleaning job!  It was definitely worth the hard work.  Can't wait to see the photos of it all going back together!


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## sks (3 Jan 2008)

daniel19831123 said:
			
		

> nice cleaning job there mate! You don't happen to provide that service regularly do ya? Would need some help with my window



Cleaning acrylic is a lot easier than glass for the reason that hard water marks find it hard to attach themselves to acrylic, same for algae etc . . . however, for marine tanks coraline algae makes it hard to keep reef systems in acrylic because when you scrap them off you get a "blush" where they've been because on scrapping the algae you attach the hard calcarous parts of algae itself, which is like scraping with a scoring pad.


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## sks (4 Jan 2008)

had to collect the plants myself today from the courier's depot. :?

My plants are:

10 Blyxa Japonica
75 Echinodorus Tenellus
3 bunches of Marsilea Crenata (4 leaf clover)
1 bunch of Sagittaria Lileopterus which somehow I never managed to grow the last time, it just hot covered in nasty brown algae
5 Blyxa Aubertii (the larger soft rush) should have bought more
10 Echinodorus Latifolius
and a pot of HC to see if I can get better results with it this time

I've moved the tank, put in the Eco Complete (and it's so much nicer to know there's no substrate heating cable now!!!), planted and filled the tank.

Photos to come soon.


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## sks (5 Jan 2008)

my wonderful Eheim canister filter collection, the professionel is going to be retired:





here's the Rainbow Lifeguard heating module (large, clunky and gets in the way) and next to it is what I am replacing it with. I could only get a 200 watt version in 12mm tubing since that's the output of the 2217:





Tank back on cabinet:





I've elected to use a 2213 to power the Dupla CO2 reactor, you can also see my dry ferts bottles and the Aquatronic control unit:





On the other side of the cabinet is a 2217 that will provide the main flow, if that's not enough I have more space for another 2217, I've come to realise that the classic Eheim canisters are fantastic, and can understand why Amano elected to copy their simplistic design when he made his range of canister filters:





In the kitchen is my 3'x2'x2' acrylic tank that I use for a storage vessel, it basically collects RO water that I harden using Seachem Equilibrium and you can see that and the Sodium Bicarbonate there as well. Also in the tank is an Eheim 1250 universal pump. The moving pump is a 1048. Both pumps are NOT used in tanks to prevent them from getting contaminated:


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## daniel19831123 (5 Jan 2008)

why did you cover the tank with polystyrene wrap?


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## james3200 (5 Jan 2008)

looking good, nice to see another aquatronica user for planted tanks

Word of warning, I would not keep the powerbar in the stand, there have been a few reports of them breaking due to moisture.. I have got mine in some IP rated boxes in the stand to protect them from any moisture / splashes


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## sks (5 Jan 2008)

I understand your concern james, but my cabinet never has any moisture in it, I'm very careful not to spill water etc. At the moment I have a problem with the A socket not switching and they tell it the box need a hard knock to dislodge the reed switch (this is a rare occurence). Where can I get IP boxes from if I need to cover it up?

For what I'm using it for, the Aquatronica is actually overkill. Would rather use a lot less equipment, looks better that way.


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## sks (5 Jan 2008)

daniel19831123 said:
			
		

> why did you cover the tank with polystyrene wrap?



that's actually cling film, but it's to prevent dust and kitchen fumes mixing with the water, also cling film makes a tight snug fit that the pieces of acrylic my tank maker gave me would not, not to mention being in the kitchen oil and dust would collect, so having a "disposable" lid is the way to go.


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## james3200 (5 Jan 2008)

Yea, better safe than sorry. Il dig out the link to where i got it, was about Â£25ish. If you got it within the last year you can get a replacement from http://www.itcaquatics.co.uk/ the UK main distributors for the AQ.


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## sks (6 Jan 2008)

*a look back on last year*

About this time last year, this is what the tank looked like:





It was a Dennerle system using deponit and quartz gravel. I never really got the plant growth that I wanted and I still don't quite recall why I spent so much on E15 and V20 and S7 and Plafenzed Gold or whatever it's called. You see the Mercury Vapour lights and the acrylic stands I made for them.

and as of August last year this is what the tank looked like:





Things have started to perk up after EI dosing and that's quite nice to know what you are putting in the water instead of listening blindindly to a company.


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## sks (6 Jan 2008)

here's what the tank looks like now, as you can see it's sparsely planted at the moment and the two clown loaches and my 5 red eyed tetras have yet to move in:





As I was filling the tank I noticed something above the water level, I thought it was a leech and got a slight fright, took a tissue to remove it and it turned out to be a slug . . . urgh!! horrible creatures .





Corydoras Robustus with a Julii, these still have not been breed in captivity and grow nice and large, had a few in my time and they're my favourite Corydoras species (along with latus and sterbai/haroldschultzi group):





The damn cheek of a fish shop sold me this fish as a Siamese Algae Eater, somehow as it got big it just didn't look like a SAE, and I later found out it was a Garra. Strange thing is that this fish does more work eating algae than the SAEs:





Yes, that's the melting Blyxa Japonica there, that's how they arrived when I got them, that's what you get for being 1 day overdue on the post , hope they make a full recovery.


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

I now intend to update this journal every week to show you my progress. I have other reasons for this, main one being that I'll need help in combating any algae issues that will start to arrive. I'm open to all suggestions, and all criticisms welcome (apart from those concerning my scaping since being from a scientific background I have no artistic talent).

Sorry about the horrible photographs, but I'm using a borrowed camera from a friend. If things go well this year I might consider a canon eos 40D with macro lens.

At the moment I'm doing EI dosing to the tank according to JamesC website, with 50% water change on sunday. When it has stabilised I will switch over to JamesC's PMDD dosing. As he says on his website because of the reaction between PO4 and iron I'll need 2 separate containers and will be using the Aqua Medic dosing pumps for this, but this is some time away, I just want to get things settled first.


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jan 2008)

Hi SKS, are you dosing full EI at the minute? you may see some real algae issues due to the low biomass in the tank, you might want to think about halving the doses.
To combat algae on my new tank i have added loads of weeds to keep a high biomass, once the carpet has grown in along with the other plants i'll just remove the weeds.  

HTH


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## JamesC (7 Jan 2008)

Agree with what Dan says. You need LOADS more plants in there if you wish to keep algae under control especially with the lighting you have and EI dosing. I always fully plant a new tank to make sure I don't run into any problems. 

I've now sussed out how to keep all the ingredients in one bottle with no probs. I don't even bother to refridgerate it. Only problem is getting hold of the chemicals required. 

James


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

Since you all know more than me on the plant front I will now halve EI dosing. I'm still running 218 watts lighting (4 x 54 watts arcadia 48" T5s) should I cut this down to 108 watts (there's a switch to only have 2 lights on)? On the CO2 front I have about 30 ppm according to drop checker. I realised that 30 ppm is a generic term used by those who use drop checkers since I don't know anyone could be that accurate in colour recognition.

I was also thinking of getting some cabomba to float about.

James, would these chemicals be rather dangerous? If so I rather not bother. I use to handle hydrochloric acid and sodium hydro oxide when I use the Dennerle deionisers (oh those were the days), and rather not be bothering with such dangerous chemical again!!


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## JamesC (7 Jan 2008)

Yes Hydrocloric can be harmful but the tiny amount used is harmless. I now longer use HCl as I've had much greater success with food additives.

James


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

I've now ordered 50 cobombas, 10 more large bylxas, 5 more blyxa japonica and some more HC, will photograph when in place. I hope to move my 2 clowns and the red eye tetras in soon. I'm holding onto these fish in the other tank because I've had a fungal outbreak that claimed the lives of 3 of the red eye tetras when they were in the main tank and I want to isolate them to make sure I did get rid of it, I really don't like losing fish.

Out of interest james, what chemicals do you use and how does one obtain them, I take it that they are difficult to obtain but not dangerous to handle?


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## JamesC (7 Jan 2008)

sks said:
			
		

> Out of interest james, what chemicals do you use and how does one obtain them, I take it that they are difficult to obtain but not dangerous to handle?



If you look at my PMDD page you'll see what they are. Perfectly safe and found in most soft drinks that you can buy. Luckily I have access to a lot of chemicals so I've never tried to buy them. Not the thing people want to buy, except if you're a drink or food manucturer, which is why they may be hard to find.

James


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

JamesC said:
			
		

> If you look at my PMDD page you'll see what they are. Perfectly safe and found in most soft drinks that you can buy. Luckily I have access to a lot of chemicals so I've never tried to buy them. Not the thing people want to buy, except if you're a drink or food manucturer, which is why they may be hard to find.
> 
> James



erm, I looked at the page and they are not there? By the way, are you a chemist by profession? I was never good at chemistry although I might take that up if certain things go to plan this year.


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## JamesC (7 Jan 2008)

E300 Ascorbic Acid
E202 Potassium Sorbate

Ex chemist. Computers now.

James


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

and out of interest where does one obtain these additives? Is Ascorbic Acid  always supplied in a harmless concentration (like vinegar)?

If I can help it, I don't want anything professionally to do with computers ever again.


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## JamesC (7 Jan 2008)

Ascorbic acid is Vitamin C which I have in powder form. Think you might be able to buy it at the supermarket or chemist.
The potasium sorbate I have looks like small pellets. No idea where it is for general sale though. You could instead use E218 Methyl Paraben but this may also be difficult to buy.

James


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## sks (7 Jan 2008)

looks like http://www.arndaleingredients.com/Products.html do them. It might be helpful if you could update your PMDD page to include information how you managed to get all the chemicals in one and what role these chemicals play in preventing the reaction.

Terribly sorry James, got the wrong end of the stick. I though you got the micros and the macros together, but you were just referring to being able to keep the micros without refrigeration. So I will be using 2 dosing pumps after all.  

All I can do now is await the new plants. I will not dose for 2 days since this will effectively halve the dosage since I've been dosing for 2 days at full dosage.


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## JamesC (8 Jan 2008)

sks said:
			
		

> Terribly sorry James, got the wrong end of the stick. I though you got the micros and the macros together, but you were just referring to being able to keep the micros without refrigeration. So I will be using 2 dosing pumps after all.


You had it right to start with. I do mix them all together. I am still basically testing it which is why I've not really mentioned it before. Updated my webpage - http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

James


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## sks (8 Jan 2008)

that great then James, only one dosing pump for me.  

By the way, when I buy Potassium Phosphate from Aqua Essentials I get K2PO4, is that the Potassium Phosphate (monobasic) that you refer to. I've heard other uses KH2PO4 or something like that but can't find that anywhere on Aqua Essentials.


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## JamesC (8 Jan 2008)

As far as I know Aqua Essentials only sell mono photassium phosphate KH2PO4 - http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=145_146&products_id=521

James


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## sks (8 Jan 2008)

yes, and that's what I ordered. I first assumed they wrote it wrong (it's in a self sealed bag with black permanent marker reading K2PO4), so I can only assume that they meant KH2PO4.


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## sks (10 Jan 2008)

new plants arrived today, this time the Blyxa did not melt much, so are superb, especially the larger Blyxa species, can definitely recommend Greenline where I got them from.

Photos to follow tomorrow.

I have some slight algae appearing also, unfortunately my rubbish digital camera cannot capture them so I'll have to revert to description and ask for help from you as how to best deal with them. The clown loaches and the red eyed tetras are coming back into the tank tonight.


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## JamesC (10 Jan 2008)

Greenline are very good and have used several times. How big are your clown loach? They have a bad reputation of wrecking planted tanks. Sometimes you get lucky though.

James


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## sks (10 Jan 2008)

my clowns are just babies, about 2 inches at most. Need to have them around anyway in case of snails.


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## sks (11 Jan 2008)

here is the tank one week after set up. Unfortunately the new bunch of HC did not make it, I opened the pot and found a worm in the wool and freaked out, dumping the whole thing in the toilet and flushed it away.

The cabomba and the Blyxas did make it and here are the results:










I also have what appears to be the start of GDA appearing on the front, I can tell by viewing lengthwise from the side of the tank, there are other algae coming and I would very much appreciate any advice people can give. Lighting is 10 hours a day (10 am - 8 pm).

I only have one otto sucker and one gara. I'd very much like to get some amano shrimp and have heard that one user here keep them with clown loaches, is this possible?


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## cousin it (12 Jan 2008)

I wouldnt recomend keeping the 2 together whilst the clowns are very small the amanos might have a chance of escape but with no hardscape for the shrimp to hide under they are more than likely to become lunch.

controling snails is easy without the need for loaches, just control the amount of available food there is for them but careful feeding of your fish and removing organic waste, then snails will not be an issue.


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## sks (14 Jan 2008)

today I've bought:

7 SAEs
8 ottos

this brings my algae eating population to 1 garra (which looks like a SAE except for the skin colouration and head), 7 SAEs (all babies) and 9 ottos.

I'm starting to get good pearling around lights off time, but there appears to be a golden cloudiness that seems to be taking over, anyone can tell me what it is. I've switched over to PMDD normal lights according to JamesC and am wondering if it's the traces elements causing the cloudiness.


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## sks (18 Jan 2008)

*weekly update for week number 2*

This is the tank at the present state:





This photo is not actually right since the background light was due to the flash, the first photo is more realistic:





A closer look at the Blyxas, terrible photo I know, but they seem to be growing newer leaves but not as large as the old ones what that slowly turning red and some melting and breaking off.





This is a Aqua Medic dosing pump in place, it doses the ferts and is on for only one minute a day, and in that one minute it pumps about 55ml, this makes things awkward since I only need to dose about 15ml of JamesC's formula so I have to ratio it up and dilute solution to 2 litres.





this is the HC clump in that tank that I've been monitoring, again sorry for the horrible photos, but you can see how it first started out and how much it has done in 2 weeks of growth:









The problems I've been getting are:

1) water was cloudy from sunday to thursday this week, but somehow it's clearing now
2) some thread algae on the tennelus at the front, but the other plants don't seem to be suffering from it much
3) there is some slight GSA on the glass but nothing major, JamesC reported GSA with his dosing too
4) a silvery film appears on the water surface and it seems to be getting thinner now. I could reinstate the Eheim surface extractor but I really don't want to.
5) I don't know if the GDA will return on the glass, I hope not, it doesn't appear to be as strong coming back as last time, probably due to water cloudiness during the week

Apart from that everything is fine, and the otts and SAEs are doing a first rate job. My garra unfortunately doesn't seem to want to do anything.


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## sks (26 Jan 2008)

*third week update, late by a few hours*

Managed to get a digital SLR and a macro lens, so the photos are a whole lot better now. Still need some messing around, and not being a professional photographer these are the best I could do.

First the HC clump:





Viewed from above, the band is actually the edge of the brace of the acrylic tank:





as you can see hair algae is starting to grow on it, but not too much, and the HC is starting to branch out. I have a feeling that since there are a lot of plants in this clump the growth rate will out run the algae. Also Excel is being dosed as of yesterday

This is my Corydoras Robustus, still not breed in captivity, hence the price is quite high for it, it is also one of the large Corydoras species. This one appears to be a female. You can see the GSA obscuring the view





This is the pearling of the cabomba, in a mere 2 weeks they have doubles their length:





The following photos shows me trying to stalk my SAE, still a baby - they're much more eager to do their work at this size:


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## sks (31 Jan 2008)

As of 29/01/08 I've made 5 litres of JamesC PMDD with the trace. This is now attached to the Aqua Medic dosing pump which doses the mixture at 9 am in the morning (lights go on at 10 am). The 5 litres should last over 180 days (almost half a year!!) which means in that time all I do is:

1) make water changes weekly (no need to do 50%)
2) trim the cabomba (and possibly get it out when I don't need it)
3) check on fish health
4) discard dead leaves and plant matter before they rot away in the tank


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## sks (16 Feb 2008)

Latest image now is:






As you can see, I'm finally getting the lawn that I wanted, it would not have been possible with the older system. I'm glad I took the plunge.

Had to move clown loaches back, they did not like the 6' and when I moved them back they had White Spot. The tank has been under 5 days of WS treatment, which I am sure is not good for the plants but they seem to tolerant it. WS is disappearing off the clowns now, so they will make a full recovery.

I am thinking of getting rid of the aquatronica controller since it serves very little use to me. I've taken the pH probe out and I'm sure the hydro heater has a good enough thermostat.


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## Joecoral (16 Feb 2008)

I like it, nice and simple, but it looks very effective. well done
kind of like the look i have going on in my current tank, except mine isnt as good

JC


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## sks (16 Feb 2008)

I'm over the moon about it, first time I get a decent lawn, never managed it with the previous system, algae always got the upper hand.

The cabombas are not suppose to be there, they are used to make up the plant mass when the tank was starting up, now they are used as sleeping quarters for my shy debauwi catfish and clown loaches.

My theme for this tank is grass, grass and more grass. I will remove the cabombas soon and let nature take its course. All I will be doing is:

1) weekly - or maybe fortnightly water changes, 1/3 of tank water (no need for 1/2)
2) cleaning of cannister filters (wash bio media in tank water, replace filter wool)
3) feed fish
4) clean and refill drop checker

and that's it. Dosing is automated and is an all in one dosing. I will let the plants "sort" themselves out.


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## sks (16 Feb 2008)

Additional images with macro lens, previous photo was no so good:





as you can see the tenellus are really starting to go to town and I should have a nice and dense lawn.





the blyxas were only keeping to their original height but now have exceeded it and starting to send flowering stems too





the glosso like plants are four leaf clover, I've been told that they lose their shape when grown submerged, I have micro sags at the front, use to be plagued by a bit of hair algae, squire of diluted excel fixed that. I don't ever intend to use excel on a permanent basis.


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## TDI-line (29 Feb 2008)

Looking good Sks.


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## Arana (29 Feb 2008)

Coming along very nicely...well done mate


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## sks (6 Mar 2008)

TDI-line and Mark,

Like I was saying when I was rudely interrupted (the offending posts were deleted by someone): I'M NOT A SCAPER.

This thread was just a notebook kept in cyberspace to record my results and any problems I may encounter. My purpose was only to do one thing: create a lawn and minimalise algae. Everyone else was doing it, in all manner of ways, and since I've never done that in the past it was obvious I was doing something wrong or listening to the wrong philosophy.

Strange you should say that it's coming on nicely Mark because, alas, my larger amazon swords are probably going to take over, my HC will die off due to lack of space and being put in the shade, and my Blyxa Japonica have melted away due to be shaded and their space invaded. I know I should prune but I'm just letting nature take its course and see.


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## mindscape100 (29 Mar 2008)

It is coming along nicely, at the moment Im dosing flourish but im wanting to take take the leap with EI im just a bit worried about the initial cost of the ingredients needed?!


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## ceg4048 (29 Mar 2008)

mindscape100 said:
			
		

> It is coming along nicely, at the moment Im dosing flourish but im wanting to take take the leap with EI im just a bit worried about the initial cost of the ingredients needed?!



Huh??? Check paragraphs 1 and 2 of this article and then get back to me...viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1211

Cheers,


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## aaronnorth (29 Mar 2008)

coming along nicely, i love cabomba!


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