# Crypt's Palace



## Joel S (19 Jun 2013)

Hi there. This is a journal for a tank that was an idle daydream, until I clicked order on the new Dennerle Scaper's Tank from Hobby Shrimp and dropped myself right in it, so to speak! It's a posh tank by my standards, hence the title.

I quickly emailed Ed at Freshwater Shrimp and went to pick up some wood and rock (they are, dangerously, just around the corner from my house). I chose several small bits of Manzanita and some Seiru that was Ed's personal collection, which he offered me when he saw the greedy look in my eye (thanks and apologies Ed).









The tank came the next day. Great service!








This is going to be an experiment with low-tech/semi-low-tech methods. To begin the experimentation I built up the substrate with polystyrene. That's some Bonsai clay and Green Machine Wabi Kusa clay scattered around it.





Topped with John Innes Seedling Compost. Looks thick, but is really only an inch or so because of the polystyrene (though I did remove some of it). There's also a scattering of ADA Amazonia powder left over from my 30cm high tech: Seven Moss Cube, and a little bit of Sphagnum moss that was also mouldering in a bag out in the shed.

I tried hot-glue to fix the Manzanita to the rocks, but it didn't work too well. Went with black silicone instead. I hope I've done it effectively enough. We'll see when I fill it!





The Amazonia was not quite enough covering, so I quickly got some work done, (working from home + tanks = massive procrastination!) and then tubed into town to pick up some gravel from the ADC on Great Portland St. Came home with Dennerle black quartz powder, and a bag full of plants.








I individually superglued a few tiny strands of Java moss to the wood, and a tiny bit of Christmas moss onto the rocks. These were cuttings from the 30cm.

Going to try to get some mulm today from the external filter on my 30cm, to get bacteria started in this tank. The little internal filter you see here is a stop-gap until I get something more substantial.

Oh yeah, the main challenge with this tank is going to be light. Keeping it down that is, as it's going to be using mostly natural light from a south-ish facing window. The window is blocked by the house next door so doesn't get more than a couple of hrs direct sunlight, but still it's going to be interesting. Hoping to use a more elegant backing than a couple of bits of printer paper, and lots of floating plants, and maybe emergent plants too.


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## Rich Jackson (19 Jun 2013)

that's a great looking start I like the polystyrene idea, may have to use that one in my tank!


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## Mike Edwardes (19 Jun 2013)

Sorry to be dim, but is the polystyrene glued in place to counteract the buoyancy? If so, with hot glue? Does hot glue hold up underwater long term?


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## Joel S (19 Jun 2013)

Initial planting...
Crypt Wendtii Brown
Crypt Spec Indonesia
Crypt Spec Flamingo (given to me as a deal as it was very sickly)
Hydrocotle Tripartita (cuttings from other tank)
Christmas Moss
Java Moss

Floating:
Amazon Frogbit
Salvinia Natans (I think)
A couple of sprigs of Hornwort

Lots of room for more at the back. Probably more crypts, to keep things simple.


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## Joel S (19 Jun 2013)

Hi Mike, the polystyrene isn't glued. It's held down by the weight of the soil and gravel on top. I did remove most of the smaller pieces, so it's mainly one big bit. I found the hot glue wouldn't hold the Manzanita onto rocks, so I used silicone instead. Other people on the forum seem to be using hot glue for all sorts though.


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## IanD (19 Jun 2013)

Looking good!


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## Mike Edwardes (19 Jun 2013)

So have you tried the setup with water in? Does it float? 

Even if it doesn't at the outset, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night because of visions that one day something would disturb it and it would come floating to the surface like the bloated corpse of a long-dead... _(sorry got carried away)_.

You could consider using *Gorilla Glue* to stick it down, works well underwater, just be careful not to get it on the glass, especially the seals, where ot might be difficult to remove completely.


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## Joel S (19 Jun 2013)

I'm really not worried. Not only does it have a couple of kilos of gravel on top of it, it has at least two really large bits of Seiru stone on top too. Water's in, plants are in. Shows no sign of moving whatsoever.


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## Alastair (19 Jun 2013)

Lovely tank joel very nice 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Joel S (19 Jun 2013)

Thanks Alastair!  Your latest, and Big Tom's are a huge inspiration for what can be done with low tech. I feel calmer already.


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## Joel S (20 Jun 2013)

1 day since setup.
Trying out a cool white 12W cree LED GU10 bulb (from ebay) in an old Ikea desk lamp. I've really not worked out how I'll balance artificial light and daylight. Currently just covering sides and back, and sometimes even the top with paper to keep it all minimal.

Got an Eden 511+ filter with inline heater coming from Aqua Essentials, but I'm thinking actually the flow may be too much for low tech, and that it'd be better to swop this with the smaller Eden 501 from my 30cm high tech. That'll be some fun faff...


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## Joel S (27 Jun 2013)

Running for about a week. I went with the larger filter on this tank for now, though I've had to choke the inlet right down in order not to sink all the floating plants. Today I replaced the hideous Eden 511+ inlet/outlets...



...with some Aqua One 500 ones, available on the web as spare parts. Not as pretty as the glassware I've been eyeing, but will need a deal less cleaning! Had to fit an Eheim tap to the inlet tube to choke it down, since I had been using the orange dial built into the Eden one.






Dosing liquid carbon at 3ml a day. Changing water when I can be bothered. Just turning the light on dimly (using a plug-in dimmer) in the evening sometimes, and more of the day when it's dark and cloudy. Plants seem to be doing okay apart from the Crypt. Flamingo which has mostly melted (but was very ill when planted. Have planted some experimental sprigs of Hygrophila, Ludwigia, Hottonia, and Lysamachia at the back, and will be moving some Hairgrass and young Crypt Balansae in from my other tank when their replacements arrive. 

Some of the wood has shifted, but since it didn't float I'm leaving it alone.

Oh yes, on the left I have planted what's supposed to be Cyperus Alternifolia (that was a messy muddy planting). I got it from ebay. I'm hoping it'll turn out a little like the ones on this tank. There's a small Peace Lily in a pot hanging on the side there too, but I don't know if it's staying.


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## Joel S (28 Jun 2013)

Reading a bit further and I think that Cyperus is liable to take over the substrate completely (maybe that'll even dislodge the polystyrene terraces). We'll see!


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## Joel S (1 Jul 2013)

About 12 days in. The Hydrocotle hasn't gone as mad as all that, I keep planting cuttings from my other tank.
Lots of soil debris on leaves, but otherwise everything mostly doing ok. I've added some 1-2 grow E. Tennelus, and a few pieces of Crypt Costata and Undulatus, but I cut most of the leaves before planting as they were damaged (and emersed anyway).
Put two Cherry Shrimp yesterday to start cleaning up, and to act as scouts. They seem to be fine.


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## Holmesy (4 Jul 2013)

In looking at the Eden 511 too. What's your feedback on it? I have just purchased a Dennerle 60L and was originally looking at the 501.


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## Joel S (4 Jul 2013)

I have both. The 501 is good, and mine has been running for 4 or 5 years (though with a gap in the middle) Totally silent. But the flow is too little for high tech. It's only just enough for my 30l nano. I've got the 511 choked way down on this tank and may actually swop them over.

I have the 511+ with external heater which was a selling point for me and seems to work very well, and it's also as silent as the 501. It has a much more sensible locking mechanism so cleaning is easier than the 501. Others have voiced concern about how the flow passes over the media in the 511 and I can't say I fully understand the logic from the diagram, but it seems to be working anyway. Basically I found the 501 so reliable that I chose its big brother. Just depends on how much flow you want really.


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## Holmesy (4 Jul 2013)

My tank will not be high tech. Just a load of slow growing plants and a couple of German rams. I read the 501 just doesn't have any guts to it? Bare in mind I know Bugga all about planted tanks being I'm an African cichlid man you have to bar with me on my stupid questions of any. My worry is the 501 will not keep the water clean enough and move the water around enough too. Bit you think the 511 might be too much?


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## Joel S (4 Jul 2013)

I guess it depends on the kind of low-tech setup. Given that some recommend no filter at all for soil substrate tanks! I think if the tank is well planted that the 501 would be enough (and as I said I'm considering switching my filters over when this one is mature, depending more on how my high-tech nano is doing). I used to run a larger high tech which slowly turned low tech with my 501 and never had filtration problems in either setup apart, I now realise, from flow/co2 when it was high tech.


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## Joel S (8 Jul 2013)

Managed to let the floating plants go mad in time for this sunny spell, and in time for leaving the tank alone for a few days (although to be honest I'm leaving it alone when I'm home anyway).

The Cyperus Alternifolia is going mad too, looking ready to develop the full umbrella-style top leaves. Will try to get a photo soon.


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## Matt Warner (8 Jul 2013)

Fantastic looking tank joe l. I wish my floating plants would multiply that quick. What floating plants are they? Think im going to have to remove the covers from my tank to lower the humidity and hopefully they will grow much better. Looking forward to seeing the tank progress.


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## WetElbow (8 Jul 2013)

You make it look effortless. Another great tank.


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## Joel S (9 Jul 2013)

Floating plants: Amazon Frogbit (very pretty trailing roots), Salvinia Natans (I think that's what it is. It mostly died off as the flow was too strong at the start and kept sinking it), Common duckweed (put in to follow the 'duckweed index method' mentioned on other low-tech threads here. It gets everywhere and is a bit of a nightmare), Giant Duckweed (I forgot the exact variety, got it off eBay. It has red undersides and is mildly less annoying than Common Duckweed). Oh yeah, a little bit of Hornwort.

This tank is currently using very little effort, but I can foresee all sorts of trouble from the soil, large rooted emergent plants, and sunlight. One thing about low-tech (although this kind of counts as high, since I dose Liquid Carbon) is I find I'm more forgiving in my expectations of the plants, which makes the whole thing a more calm process (so far), not to mention not having to faff with CO2 injection. I more or less just set the tank up and left it alone.


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## Joel S (16 Jul 2013)

After five days away:










(Can't seem to get a decent photo of the Cyperus Alternifolia, but not only has it shot up (and down, looking at the roots round the back of the tank) but it's flowering too).

After removing a tub full of floating plants the surface is still covered.




I've popped four Ottos into the tank today because they have not been doing well in my tiny CO2-injected tank. One is pretty sick (has never really been quite right), but the others seem to be adapting ok.


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## Joel S (19 Jul 2013)

The small Otto didn't make it. The rest seem ok.


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## DanMac (19 Jul 2013)

Great setup, looks very natural and i bet the fish feel at home there.

Also I dont mean to derail the thread but I have to ask, do you know if its possible to buy those pipes separately, specifically the intake?. or something similar to those because mine is square and I would prefer that shape,cheers.


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## Joel S (19 Jul 2013)

Thanks.
Yes, I bought the Aqua One 500 spare parts set, which was around £20. I can't remember which online shop I got it from, but if you google you should be able to find it. There was one shop that did the intake on its own if I remember rightly.


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## Joel S (19 Jul 2013)

(For this setup I cut the intake down short and fitted a shrimp guard, but the spare parts set has all you could need for most eventualities.)


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## DanMac (19 Jul 2013)

Appreciate it, good idea with the shrimp guard, my intake sticks quite high out of my tank so i might do that also


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## Joel S (21 Jul 2013)

New additions.
(Stiphodon sp. & Male Peacock Goby. There's a female in there somewhere too.)

Once again, apologies for poor iPhone pics...


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## Joel S (31 Jul 2013)




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## Joel S (13 Aug 2013)

First pic with new camera. Still just a snap though.

Added some Red Ramshorn snails today, and three Red Nosed Shrimp about a week ago. The shrimp promptly disappeared  and I thought they were gone, but I found one in the background of a photo today.   Now the male (or larger) Peacock Goby is missing. Maybe they finally bullied him back...

Sneaking in:


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## Gill (13 Aug 2013)

This is the Look I am going for with Monolithic. Dark with Lots of Trailing Roots from the Surface


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## Joel S (21 Aug 2013)

Slight re-arrangment of the piece of wood that kept falling over...


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## Joel S (22 Aug 2013)

Now with Rasboras.


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## Ian Holdich (22 Aug 2013)

What a fine natural looking scape! 

Love it Joel, really well done, and great fish choice.


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## Spartacus (23 Aug 2013)

Lovely looking tank Joel - It looks very natural and the Goby is very nice.

Thank you for sharing!


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## Joel S (23 Aug 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> What a fine natural looking scape! Love it Joel, really well done, and great fish choice.


Thanks Ian! I've been enjoying your 1-2-grow scape a lot, even you're missing the driftwood etc (I would feel the same too, but it's definitely interesting).



Spartacus said:


> Lovely looking tank Joel - It looks very natural and the Goby is very nice. Thank you for sharing!


Thanks! He's got a lot of personality, which includes digging up the soil in the foreground...


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## dw1305 (23 Aug 2013)

Hi all,


Joel S said:


> Common duckweed (put in to follow the 'duckweed index method' mentioned on other low-tech threads here






It is looking really nice, your floaters look very healthy, sometimes I wish I'd called it the "Amazon Frogbit index", as lots of light, high nutrients and Duckweed (_Lemna minor_) does mean that you can end up with a pretty complete cover of Duckweed fairly quickly, and it is pita to get rid off.


Joel S said:


> Giant Duckweed (I forgot the exact variety, got it off eBay. It has red undersides and is mildly less annoying than Common Duckweed).


 The other plant looks like _Phyllanthus fluitans_ (Red Root floater), rather than _Spirodela polyrhiza._

cheers Darrel


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## Joel S (23 Aug 2013)

Cheers Darrel,
I did a quick google and there's definitely some Spirodela polyrhiza in there. Red underneath but with white roots. But theres quite a few things mixed in just now, though I've got rid of almost all of the duckweed with tweezers a couple of weeks ago. Actually, looking, there's a good deal back. As you say pita.


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## dw1305 (23 Aug 2013)

Hi all,


Joel S said:


> I did a quick google and there's definitely some Spirodela polyrhiza in there. Red underneath but with white roots.


Yes, that sounds like _Spirodela_, _Phyllanthus_ has red roots. I like to have a range of floaters, because sometimes one dwindles away. I find that _Pistia_ always grows smaller and more spidery through the winter, and grows bigger chunkier in the summer.

cheers Darrel


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## Joel S (9 Sep 2013)

After a trim last week.

I now have seen all three red-nosed shrimp, alive and well. I think when I first put them in they went to the almond leaf that was at the back by the inlet, and didn't come out until they'd eaten it!


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## Joel S (13 Sep 2013)

Another re-appearance since the almond leaf is all eaten. About a quarter bigger than when it disappeared! (Taken with a £15 cctv lens).


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## Joel S (13 Sep 2013)




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## Joel S (25 Sep 2013)

Tripartita trimmed hard, and more Monte Carlo planted. Also a bit of Microsorum 'Trident'.


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## brodnig (25 Sep 2013)

I really like this tank, very inspirational. How have you found coping with the abundant natural light? 

I only ask as my low-ish tech nano gets a lot of natural light and algae was a nightmare. The light recently broke and i couldn't afford to replace it. The result is no algae and the crypts have never looked better! Just shows how much impact light from windows can have, definitely something I will have to consider when I finally get round to replacing the light...


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## Joel S (25 Sep 2013)

Thanks. So far the tank copes very well. It has a far longer light period than it should, with natural light all day (though not all that much completely direct) and LED light from 1.30pm to 9.30pm. The LED is a single 12w (4x 3w) Cree lightbulb in a lamp fitting, with a dimmer. I've actually just turned that up to full as I feel that the foreground isn't getting quite enough. There's less light in the windows now the season has changed, though I have taken down some tomato plants that were blocking the sun before. So far the floating plants seem to keep everything under control, though recently they've been telling me that some ferts are needed.


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## brodnig (26 Sep 2013)

Joel S said:


> Thanks. So far the tank copes very well. It has a far longer light period than it should, with natural light all day (though not all that much completely direct) and LED light from 1.30pm to 9.30pm. The LED is a single 12w (4x 3w) Cree lightbulb in a lamp fitting, with a dimmer. I've actually just turned that up to full as I feel that the foreground isn't getting quite enough. There's less light in the windows now the season has changed, though I have taken down some tomato plants that were blocking the sun before. So far the floating plants seem to keep everything under control, though recently they've been telling me that some ferts are needed.


 
Cheers. 

I have a new light on order, going to use floaters to temper impact of windows (although it's going to be dark pretty much constantly here soon )


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## Joel S (25 Nov 2013)




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## darren636 (27 Nov 2013)

This is something interesting. Evocative.


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## Joel S (22 Jan 2014)

Now with all the plants from my 30cm cube Roots & Lava, which I've taken down.
I've added co2 on a very low dose. Had recently stopped putting liquid carbon in, and some plants looked less happy, so hopefully this will bring it back to about the same level.


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## Joel S (13 Apr 2014)

A couple of pics from a week or so ago.


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## stu_ (13 Apr 2014)

Careful now.I'm sure I can see a fish or two in there.
Love the junglely look


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## Joel S (21 Apr 2014)




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## Joel S (19 Jun 2014)

Before and after trimming this month. Considering it is full sunlight that's causing this growth, the algae's not too bad!


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## parotet (19 Jun 2014)

This tank is wonderful.... Amazing!!!

Jordi


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## Greenfinger2 (20 Jun 2014)

Hi Jordi, Superb thread  Truly stunning Scape


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## Joel S (22 Jul 2014)

After another monthly trim.


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## Joel S (24 Aug 2014)




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## Wendal_spanswick (25 Aug 2014)

I really like this scape Joel and I've taken inspiration and tried something similar but very early days still. I'll be well please if it ends up like this one.


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## The_Iceman (25 Aug 2014)

Wild and natural! That's how I like it!!!

Well done!


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## Greenfinger2 (25 Aug 2014)

Hi Joel,Superb, A feast of plants for your eyes,


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## Joel S (8 Nov 2016)

3 years old and still going! This tank has been very neglected at times, and the TDS has been through the roof! I've been bringing that down with RO water since I bought a unit for another project, but it shoots back up very fast - so I wonder if the soil that I used all those years ago might have something to do with it and not just me topping up with London tap water over and over.

Shrimps and guppies still breeding away though. I think the one reason the tank has survived all the neglect is the Monstera plant that now has roots spreading all through it (too much and starting to crowd out the submersed plants recently).





Please take a look at the thread I just started regarding getting my new project off the ground (hopefully a larger tank along these lines) because I've hit a serious problem that I could use advice on.


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## Joel S (8 Nov 2016)

Oh yes, and I've just set up an instragam account for my tanks too.


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## Joel S (16 Nov 2016)

Update on the cracked tank: I got my refund and was about to take the tank apart when I decided I should give a local glazier a call and ask about a piece of float glass to completely replace the broken back pane. I got a piece cut, and I had the old piece cut down to make a partial cover for the tank (I removed it using dental floss to cut the silicone and it was pretty easy.) All for £16. So, when my £4 worth of silicone arrives I'll find out if I can make a Signature 600 for £20.

Not sure where I'll put it though, since in the meantime my girlfriend and I decided it was too large for that room anyway and I ordered a Dennerle 60l cube instead. Currently I'm playing with the idea of making a nano-reef from this and replacing Crypts Palace with the Signature (which might require me to reinforce the table it sits on).


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## Joel S (5 Dec 2016)

I've now made two attempts at siliconing a new panel onto the Signature 600. Each time I've had micro bubbles appearing in the join when the tank is filled and it looked like it would not hold for long (though no actual leaks). The second time I reckon I did the best job that I am capable of so I am throwing in the towel for now.

If I can find somewhere to store the tank than I may keep it until the weather is warm and I can more easily cure joins and test for leaks. Or I might cut my losses and get rid altogether. Nevermind, I've learned more than I wanted to know about silicone sealant (still not enough) and lots of respect for cleanly built tanks that don't leak.


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## Joel S (2 Feb 2017)

Full re-scape I did on Crypts Palace just before Christmas.

I removed all the Cheeseplant roots that were choking the substrate and I also removed the Polystyrene that was bulking out the substrate. Big, muddy job!

I added a Par 38 36w 6500k LED in a modified Ikea lamp. The bulb is choked down with a plug-in dimmer to less than half power.


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## Joel S (2 Feb 2017)

As it is now with added Buces and some extra rock and woodwork.


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## Joel S (2 Feb 2017)

And here's the start of a new tank. I went quite far down the path of setting up a nano reef in this (check eBay now if you want a bargain on an AI Prime light!) but I decided that for now I can't afford the time, money, and stress it would require. At the moment I'm planning Riccardia, Fissidens, Bolbitis, and maybe Blyxa for this one.  Lighting will hopefully be the new Kessil A80, which I've ordered with the free mounting bracket from sponsor Aqua Essentials.

Planning to try moving the CO2 over to this tank and dimming the lights on Crypts palace even more and just use Liquid Carbon on that.


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## Joel S (4 Mar 2017)

Crypts Palace new layout doing surprisingly well with just liquid carbon. Glass needs cleaning and a few bolbitis areas struggling (others fine). The brightness of the light is for the photo only, I keep it less than half this bright. Lots of daylight still though.

New tank from the previous post now has its own journal. Roots and Lava v2 (link in my signature)..


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