# Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pumps



## andyseatrout (5 Feb 2011)

Hi All,

My head is about to explode having read far too many articles and posts about EI dosing; I am concerned about solubility issues, how many ppm of potassium comes from the potassium nitrate and how many comes from the potassium phosphate, how many grams 1/16th of a teaspoon equates to - you name it, I am now totally confused by it!

I have just converted my ex-reef aquarium into a planted tank and I am due to take delivery of the plants next Thursday. I am sorted with lighting (anything from 2 to 6 x 80W T5's - I am most likely going to start with and stick to 4), CO2 injection (5Kg FE fed through an in line atomiser - for the short term) and flow (a 5000lph eheim sump return pump and a Tunze 6045 powerhead of 4500lph) and I have fitted cover glass and sealed up the sump, but I am currently totally stumped with EI dosing.  :?  

The total volume of the tank and sump I estimate to be 600 litres. I have a 4 pump dosing unit, so the ability to automatically dose 4 different solutions independently and 4 x 5 litre bottles. It appears that the most suitable method of dosing would be to dose the macro nutrients on three alternate days, with the micro nutrients on the days in between, followed by two rest days and then a 50% water change (based on Clive's article).

I would really appreciate it if someone could produce me an idiot's guide that I could follow to get me started with this as I just appear to be chasing my tail here!

I don't even know how much of the dry ingredients to order and I need to do this really soon .....

Many thanks in anticipation


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## CeeJay (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi andyseatrout.

Now........take a deep breath and stop stressing   .
First of all lets start with the ingredients.
You need 
KN03 (Potassium Nitrate, also called Saltpetre if you're searching ebay, £3 a kilo, bargain   )
KH2PO4 (Potassium Phosphate, no other name used for this)
Trace elements.
and possibly MgSO4, (commonly called Epsom Salts, 99p a kilo, another bargain    )

On to your pumps. 
If you want to use dosing pumps that's fine but you will only need two of them.
The KNO3, KH2PO4 and MgSO4 all go in the same bottle.
Trace goes in a separate bottle, That's it.

Now according to the calculations for a 600l tank (that's 158 US gallons, so call it 160 gallons to keep the sums simple)
160 gallons is 8 times the 20 gallon tank that the original EI post was based on, so we just multiply everything by 8.
I gave up worrying about 1/16th, 1/8ths, 1/4 of a teaspoon a while ago so I now go to the nearest half or whole teaspoon.
So for your tank you will need 
18 tsp KNO3
6 tsp KH2PO4
48 tsp MgSO4
all into one bottle.

4 tsp Trace in the other bottle.
All of this will last you 4 weeks.

Now, whatever volume of water you decide to use for your mixtures, the target is to get that lot into your tank (in roughly equal doses) over a 4 week period. I'll let you do the maths for that bit as you know your pumps dosing rates etc.

A word on the MgSO4. A lot of people with hard water do not need to dose this as there is enough in their tap water.
So what I would recommend is that you start dosing with it, but gradually back it off. If your leaves are staying green by the time you get down to zero, you won't need it anymore. MgSO4 assists with the production of Chlorophyl in the leaves, so if they stay green, the plants have enough.

I would order a kilo of each KNO3, KH2PO4 and MgSO4 to start with. As you use different amounts of each you will be able gauge how much you'll need to order for future months.
As far as Trace elements go, to give you an idea, 100g lasted me over 12 months on a 180l. As your tank is 3 times bigger than mine I would maybe start with 250 or 500g. This is the most expensive of the powders.

Where's Paul (Flyfisherman) when you need him?, he usually does these calculations for people in a flash  

Hope that's of some use to you.
Any other queries, just holler


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## andyseatrout (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi Chris,

Thanks very much for that, I can certainly get started with that information although from what you have said about the magnesium sulphate I think I might start with litre bottles and go from there.


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Andy, CJ has made a fantastic post for you but, you can make it even simpler by using an all in one mix & dosing 6 days a week - I have already posted a link on your other thread


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## CeeJay (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi foxfish.

I totally agree with you. I know the all in one mixture works, as I use it in my 2 low tech tanks.
However, as Andy was struggling to get his head round the powders, I didn't want to introduce another 2 ingredients for him to get his head round  .
Once his confidence grows with the dosing, I'm sure he'll tackle that.


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Are yes good point mate however this is the link I posted http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/prod ... product=82 a forum sponsor who does all the mixing & dosing calculations for you   
Maybe not the cheapest option but I have been buying the 2000ml for £16 so not really that expensive, certainly works...


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## andyseatrout (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Foxfish - I definately prefer the idea of dosing macros and trace on different days to avoid precipitation. I would also like to make this as cost effective as possible, so I will be looking to go down the mixing my own powders route, but thatnks very much for the suggestion.

I think that our water is so hard here that I will not have to use any magnesium sulphate at all, but I would obviously start with it.


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## foxfish (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

That's cool Andy - I was mixing & dosing alternate days right up to a few months back & that worked well too.
I must say however, none of my plants tanks have ever been so lush & green as this one is now


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## Piper (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Andy,

Out of interest how are you doing to get the ferts form the dosing pump into the tank?

Piper


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Piper
Ive sent you a message
hoggie


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## andyseatrout (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*



			
				Piper said:
			
		

> Andy,
> 
> Out of interest how are you doing to get the ferts form the dosing pump into the tank?
> 
> Piper



The ferts will be dosed into the last section of my sump and be fed to the display tank via the return pump. Why do you ask?


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## Piper (6 Feb 2011)

I'm looking to hard plumb my two filters in my next tank. I'm struggling to find a connection that will let me install the dilution line into the return pipe.


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## andyseatrout (6 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*



			
				Piper said:
			
		

> I'm looking to hard plumb my two filters in my next tank. I'm struggling to find a connection that will let me install the dilution line into the return pipe.



Is there any reason that you couldn't have it dosing straight into the tank?


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## Piper (7 Feb 2011)

I'm just trying to hide all my equipment. I'm drilling the base of the tank for both filters flow and return. It would be a shame to then run a pair of dilution lines up to the tank. I'm after the super clean look.


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## plantbrain (8 Feb 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

FYI, those Tom's aquarium pumps run 220 mls a minute, but head pressure reduces this some, so you need to measure each, but they cost about 15$ US, so that + a timer will automate any dosing if you are bad about it.


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## andyseatrout (20 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

OK, time to revive this thread as I really could do with a total idiots guide to this and I would like to start all this tomorrow!

I have a 4 pump dosing unit and I plan to dose Easycarbo at a rate of 20ml per day, every day which is what I have been doing manually.

I plan to make 2 other mixes, one macro and one micro and I would like to dose each daily for 6 days, with a day of rest, followed by a 50% water change and a dose after that on the same day.

I would like to make the solutions up to 5litres, to save having to make them up too often. I am looking for confirmation that I have understood the dosing regime correctly as I will be dosing the macros and micros at different times, to avoid precipitation.

I would also really appreciate it if someone would be kind enough to tell me exactly what mass of each chemical to put in each mix and what volume of mix to add on each of the 6 days.

Thanks in advance,

Andy.


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## andyseatrout (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Can nobody help with this?


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## ceg4048 (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi Andy,
             It's not really clear what more data you're looking for. It appears CeeJay gave you the information you requested back in post #2. Wasn't that what you were looking for? If not, could you clarify what it is that you're trying to know?

Cheers,


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## andyseatrout (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi Ceg,

having re read post 2, you are right I do have all the information I need.

I think that it is the teaspoons that I am having trouble getting my head around as where I have been controlling several paramenters within a reef aquarium using "Balling", this has required incredibly precise measurements of salts and these have been dosed in very precise volumes.

I am just a little surprised that there is not a more up to date article on EI using masses, rather than teaspoons as I would find this far easier to work with and hopefully have more consistency and control with. In my head, 1 tsp of one salt is not the same mass as a tsp of another type of salt, so estimating the masses based on 1 tsp = 5g would be wildly inaccurate .....


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## foxfish (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

The idea of EI is to make everything easy, you don't need to be precise.


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## andyseatrout (22 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> The idea of EI is to make everything easy, you don't need to be precise.



I suppose that I am not that worried about being precise, more that I want to be supplying the correct amount of nutrients to the plants, without supplying such an excess that I either get an algae outbreak or end up spending money on an uneccessary excess of salts.

John at AquariumplantfoodUK has been very helpful and has provided me with exactly the information I asked for, so thanks for that.

My last remaining question is if I split the dosing of the macros and micros apart by a couple of hours, could I dose them on the same day, or would I still end up with the possibility of precipitation? This way I would be able to deliver exactly what the plants needed every day, rather than having an excess of macros on one day and micros on the other, with the possibility of a deficiency of either one that is not being dosed on that day.

If I am barking up entirely the wrong tree here please tell me and I will stick to alternate days with a day of rest!

Thanks


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## CeeJay (23 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Hi andyseatrout


			
				andyseatrout said:
			
		

> I suppose that I am not that worried about being precise, more that I want to be supplying the correct amount of nutrients to the plants, without supplying such an excess that I either get an algae outbreak


Let's not even go there.  It has been proven time and time again that excess ferts do not cause algae    I even tried it myself when I was about to strip a tank down. I ran double EI values for at least 6 months. All I got was mental plant growth   
Slight excess is good as it gives you a bigger margin of error if you forget to dose one day etc.


			
				andyseatrout said:
			
		

> or end up spending money on an uneccessary excess of salts.


OK, I can agree with that  


			
				andyseatrout said:
			
		

> My last remaining question is if I split the dosing of the macros and micros apart by a couple of hours, could I dose them on the same day, or would I still end up with the possibility of precipitation?


You could certainly do that without any worries. But ask yourself this. There will still be Phosphate in your tank water the next day (admittedly less), unless your plants magically use every last bit of it, so why do we not worry about precipitation when we dose on alternate days?
As foxfish says, no need to be precise, and you certainly wouldn't have a deficiency of anything on the day that you don't dose either the macros or micros.
Hope that helps.


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## andyseatrout (23 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Thanks Chris,

I will stick to the following then as I have been advised:

Macro Mix, Dose 120ml x 3 days a Week.
5000ml Water
150g Potassium Nitrate
25g Potassium Phosphate
300g Magnessium Sulpahte

Micro Mix, Dose 120ml x 3 days a Week.
5000ml Water
50g Chelated Trace

Unfortunately I am going to have to do this manually though as I have just started to try to program my dosing pumps and I can only see half of the pixels, so I am going to have to get the unit fixed!

Andy


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## foxfish (23 Mar 2011)

*Re: Wanting to start EI dosing using solutions and dosing pu*

Andy you might find something of help here http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=915 as the measurements are in grams


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