# Cannot defeat BBA and plant ailment!! HELP!



## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

Hello everyone.. I've had this setup for maybe 3 months and i can't seem to get it right 

My tank is 200L 100x50x60
Filtration Eheim professionel 4+ 350T + Tunze 6095 for better flow.
Co2 diffuser connected to filter outlet
Light Giesemann PULZAR HO 52W

Photoperiod is from 11 till 17 at 50% of lamps power (1:30Hr for "sunrise" and "sunset")
So basically lights on at 9:30 and out at 18:30

Co2 readings:
- 10:00 Co2 on (PH 7.6)
-17:00 Co2 off (PH 6.3)

I am dosing EI
My Macro :
- 1l RO ;
- 95 g. KNO3
- 15 g. KH2PO4
Dosing 23ml

My micro:
- 1 l RO
- 26 gr CSM+B
- 20 gr. Fe (13%) DTPA
- 4,7 gr. MnSO4*7HO2 
- apie 1 gr. Vitamin C
- apie 0,5 gr. Potassium sorbate
Dosing 18ml

I added the Tunze when i noticed the plants are not healthy, i did my research, so i decided that good flow was missing and thats why my plants were not healthy, but after i added Tunze, the BBA started showing on the places where the flow is biggest!

Recently (like 4-5 days ago) i upped my co2 levels and stated doing water changes more often (change 50-60%), before i was doing water changes once a week. Still cannot see any signs of the plants getting better.
Maybe you guys could help me out and give me some other advices that could help (excluding dosing EasyCarbo). 

Ask in case i missed on something, i am attaching few photos of my tank. Thank you for your time!


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## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

I've found some bacteria that came with Eheim filter, i have not used it. Should i add it directly to the filter, or i can add it to the tank?


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## Tim Harrison (27 Mar 2019)

Kuojne said:


> Photoperiod is from 11 till 17 at 50% of lamps power (1:30Hr for "sunrise" and "sunset")
> So basically lights on at 9:30 and out at 18:30


I'm a bit confused about the length of your photoperiod. If it's 9:30 - 18:30 that's 3 hrs too long. I'd reduce it to 6 hrs. 
Keep up with the water changes, and keep your filter clean and make sure it has plenty of media to deal with organics. 
If you aren't already, try and get the 1.0 pH drop or lime green drop checker before lights on and all the way till lights off.


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## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

Well the lamp i have is LED and i can control it via BT interface, so i made "sunrise" and "sunset" feature. So the lamp turns on at 9:30 and it takes 1:30 hr to reach the 50% of its power, and it stays like that till 17, then it starts to dim out till 18:30 and then the lamp is completely off. I believe that feature is nonsense?


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## Jayefc1 (27 Mar 2019)

Your ph should have dropped by one before the lights come on for a start not at lights out the photo period seems way too long and do you have a drop checker that is lime green where ever you place it in the tank at lights on that could take up to 3 hours before your lights come on I would start to do 3 water changes a week and your lights need to be max 6 give the plants time to recover instead of forcing them to grow unhealthy


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## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

Well, theoretically the photoperiod is supposed to be only 6 hrs, from 11 till 17. I wanted to be able to have a view on the aquarium a little bit more, so i added those "sunrise,sunset" features. Are they disturbing? It takes about 1hr for it to reach 35% of the lights power. Should i disable that feature? When technically the photoperiod starts with this kind of set up?


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## Edvet (27 Mar 2019)

Algae can grow on almost no light, so kill it for now.
If all is good and healthy you can gradually add some time for viewing.'
Alternatively change the times to when you are at home, daylight adds to lighting times too though.


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## Zeus. (27 Mar 2019)

Edvet said:


> Algae can grow on almost no light, so kill it for now.
> If all is good and healthy you can gradually add some time for viewing.'
> Alternatively change the times to when you are at home, daylight adds to lighting times too though.



I have cardboard shields on tank fronts as wife like to open curtains covers 



Kuojne said:


> Should i disable that feature?



Yes or reduce the ramp up period to say 15mins



Kuojne said:


> Co2 readings:
> - 10:00 Co2 on (PH 7.6)
> -17:00 Co2 off (PH 6.3)



Have you done a pH profile? it sounds like you have unstable [CO2] during your photo period, pH should be stable from lights on to CO2 off, doing a pH profile will confirm whats happening in your tank.

pH profile - take pH every 30mins from lights on till CO2 off and note it down and do a graph


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## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

Thanks for the answers.

So maybe i am dosing CO2 incorrectly. I could do the profile, i have an electrode which read to display device (JBL). Anyway, if you say that i should have stable pH till i turn CO2 off, then i guess i should turn it on way earlier than i do now.


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## Jayefc1 (27 Mar 2019)

Your ph drop should be 1 before your photo period starts so the co2 is in the water for your plants to use on.my tank it takes 3 hours so my co2 comes on at 2 lights on at 5 with half an hour sunrise then off at 11 half an  hour sunset both sunrise and sunset are included in the 6 hour period


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## Kuojne (27 Mar 2019)

Would it be bad for you if u would make ur pH to drop in lets say 1 hour instead of 3?


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## Kuojne (5 Apr 2019)

Okay, so 9 days have passed, the plants health got slightly better, the BBA seems to have stopped producing, plants started growing slightly faster, but they still seem very unhealthy. Added some photos while lights are still off, so you could see how older leaves are way darker green than the top ones.

I have changed my light schedule from 11 to 17, 30mins for “sunrise and sunset” included in that schedule. I am doing 2 water changes per week. Ei dosing of course. Starting the co2 2 hours before lights on. Drop checker is green on the most immobile spot

pH readings -
9:00 co2 on, 7.51 pH
11:00 lights on, pH 6.53
11:30 pH 6.47
12:00 pH 6.42
12:30 pH 6.38
13:00 pH 6.34-6.33 and stays like that till lights off.

P.S. My macro ferts got a little bit cloudy on the bottom 3 weeks after i made them(micro cannot see, because the solution is dark).. Why is that? I have RO water, i warmed it a little bit for better solubility, but it seems that my filter is not doing 100% job, because RO waters kH is 2.3, which is really weird, is that cloudiness because of that?


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## Kuojne (5 Apr 2019)

Adding photos


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## ian_m (5 Apr 2019)

1. You are not dosing EI. You have invented something else. Please dose EI, that includes MgSO4.
2. I would reduce lights to 5 hours or less for a while (month) till plants bed down.
3. If you have no livestock, dose some liquid carbon, possibly x5 or even x10 dose as that will wipe out algae, especially BBA. Be careful some plants (do research first) are not happy with liquid carbon. Try spot dosing (inject via a syringe) liquid carbon on any particularly bad areas.
4. If you are using RO water in your tank (why ????) what are you hardening up with ?
5. I assume you are dosing alternate days macro and micro ?


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## Edvet (5 Apr 2019)

I notice a lot of " daylight" in your pics, be carefull this can add to the lighting(hours).


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## Kuojne (5 Apr 2019)

I’ve found old post in Lithuanian forum of a guy who makes his own ferts so i copied the recipe..

 I mix RO with tap water for aquarium, i am pretty sure our tap water has alot of Mg and calcium (it is not drinkable, that is why i have RO).
Yes i am dosing alternate days.

So why are my ferts getting cloudy so soon?


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## dw1305 (5 Apr 2019)

Hi all, 





Kuojne said:


> i am pretty sure our tap water has alot of Mg and calcium


I don't know, but I'd expect that your water would be very soft. 

The reason would be that geology of all the Baltic states is <"East European Craton">, so basically very old (Precambrian), hard, inert rocks, without any limestones.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (5 Apr 2019)

Kuojne said:


> I mix RO with tap water for aquarium, i am pretty sure our tap water has alot of Mg and calcium (it is not drinkable, that is why i have RO).


Never assume what is in your water, if you are using a water company report, it is for their test point on a particular day not your tap water. Altering to non EI dosing just leads to algae, oh as you have found.

Adding extra Mg, assuming your water has Mg, which as Darrel has said seems unlikely, has no downside (MgSO4 is not toxic to fish even in large doses) and MgSO4 is the cheapest ingredient, so always include this in EI dosing.

If your tap water is soft (again why are you using RO if you have soft water ?), you must harden up your water to at least 8dKH to give you some element of carbonate buffering. Either buy ready made remineralising salts or make your own.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm

Seems like some of your issues may be too soft water and no Mg present, along with too long or too bright light for an immature tank.


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## Kuojne (5 Apr 2019)

Allright, gotta go buy MgSO4 then.

I tested dKh with a test kit, my tap water has 14.2 dKh, and RO 2.3. My aquariums water dKh at the day of a water change is 12.2
Our tap water has a really bad taste, that is why it is undrinkable, you can feel the Iron and Calcium in our tap water.

But why does my Macro get cloudy at the bottom after 3 weeks? Is it because of karbons? Should i boil my RO then?


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## dw1305 (5 Apr 2019)

Hi all, 





Kuojne said:


> Allright, gotta go buy MgSO4 then.


<"Epsom Salts"> should be available to you. Mg SO4.7H2O and ~10% Mg. 





Kuojne said:


> But why does my Macro get cloudy at the bottom after 3 weeks? Is it because of karbons? Should i boil my RO then?


You definitely don't need to boil the RO water. It might be phosphate precipitation, but that shouldn't happen with RO, do you use RO water to make up your macro solution? and have you tried an alternative soft water source? (rain-water would be my suggestion). 





Kuojne said:


> I tested dKh with a test kit, my tap water has 14.2 dKh, and RO 2.3


That is a strange one, your RO shouldn't have any dKH (or any of anything else).

In the UK we can get parameters for our tap water from the company that supplies it, but I'm not sure about in the rest of Europe.

Do you have a conductivity (TDS) meter? The conductivity of the tap water (and RO) would give us some idea of what the water is likely to contain.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (5 Apr 2019)

Boiling RO will not make any difference. Looking up solubility's of KNO3 and KH2PO4 (242gr/1000ml & 22g/1000ml) you shouldn't be having any solubility issues.

Measuring a dKH value of your RO is worrying, I suspect your RO water isn't, which could explain your tank issues and maybe your macro issues.

1. Try making your macro with cooled boiled tap water, that works for me no precipitate, despite 22dKH tap water.
2. Get a TDS pen to test your RO water.
3. Get an ammonia & free chlorine test kit to test your RO water. If either of these are present in your RO water then your need to replace the pre-filter and RO membrane. And regularly test your RO water before use (TDS pen is fine as well) as RO units are not guaranteed to remove chloramine and chlorine from tap water if run too fast and/or have poor pre-filter (a de-chlor prefilter) and poor membrane.


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## Kuojne (6 Apr 2019)

Allright, so i’ve got myself some MgSO4, waiting for the water to cool down now.
Also changed RO filters and membrane and let the water run for a while. TDS meter, the value of my RO is: 5-6ppm, which to my knowledge is perfect?
Tap water had 215ppm

So i did the kH test again on my RO and this time it came as 0.9.. Maybe i’ve installed the pre-filter incorrectly?

Couldn’t find ammonio or chlorine test kit on saturday, will continue the search on monday.


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## Kuojne (6 Apr 2019)

Kuojne said:


> Allright, so i’ve got myself some MgSO4, waiting for the water to cool down now.
> Also changed RO filters and membrane and let the water run for a while. TDS meter, the value of my RO is: 5-6ppm, which to my knowledge is perfect?
> Tap water had 215ppm
> 
> ...


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## ian_m (6 Apr 2019)

Ammonia and test kits are not as strictly necessary as a TDS pen. Would have thought RO should be 0 ppm TDS, maybe you still have an issue with your RO setup.

However in absence of test kit just and further information you could just add dechlorinator, which should also remove ammonia, to RO just in case. Remember to use dechlorinator with the tap water as well


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## Kuojne (6 Apr 2019)

Using cooled boiled water is not enough? I must add dechlorinator also?


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## ian_m (6 Apr 2019)

Sorry to thought you were using RO in your tank. Mixing EI, cooled/warm boiled water is fine.


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## dw1305 (6 Apr 2019)

Hi all, 





ian_m said:


> Would have thought RO should be 0 ppm TDS, maybe you still have an issue with your RO setup.





Kuojne said:


> TDS meter, the value of my RO is: 5-6ppm, which to my knowledge is perfect?


It should theoretically be 0 ppm, but I'd be happy with 5 - 6 ppm, to get down towards 0 ppm you would need a DI (ion exchange) filter as well. 





Kuojne said:


> So i did the kH test again on my RO and this time it came as 0.9


Sounds like the test kit, you can't have much alkalinity when you have virtually no salts of any description. 

If you look at sea water it ~35g of (mainly (NaCl)) salts in one litre and about 35,000 ppm TDS, you can see from that you are looking at the equivalent of a few grains of NaCl to give you 6 ppm TDS.

cheers Darrel


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## Kuojne (8 Apr 2019)

Thank you for helping.

I have one more question - according to James’ calculator i am only getting somewhat 15ppm of potassium per week with my macro recipe, but i am getting more than enough of nitrate - 21ppm. I’ve read Clives’ thread about Ei dosing with dry salts and he recommends 30ppm of potassium per week. Should i add more KNO3 and don’t sweat about nitrates?


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## X3NiTH (8 Apr 2019)

I had a look at your source water.

*Lithuania is the only country in Europe to exclusively source tap water from subsurface Aquifers.*

The chemistry of your water is exceptionally rich and saturated, the unpallability of the tap water taste is due to the Iron and Manganese content (the more palatable the water the more likely remediation has been performed on the water to reduce the metals content).




 
This table is found in the below PDF. 

MIGRATION FORMS OF CHEMICAL ELEMENTS IN SHALLOW GROUNDWATER IN LITHUANIA 

You will need to find out which Aquifer applies to you for the region you live in, comparing your out the tap TDS with the above table should give you a starting point of the mineral content before remediation (to make it safe for the distribution network and to keep it within EU directed levels for safe human consumption).

In general it appears you source waters are in the range for EI level mineral nutrition coming out your tap, nice!

I don't think you have enough plant mass in relation to the water volume in your tank to be able to absorb all that nutrition with everything else you are adding on top so it's feeding the BBA. I would suggest (already mentioned above) blacking out the tank from incidental room light when the tank light is off, from a personal perspective this helps immensely to prevent BBA spread on foliage and keeps it localised to fast flow areas making it easier to deal with (I black out my tanks because of spill from two 60w LED spotlights that my be on when the tank is in the dark period and this is in a room that receives no natural daylight, yours is getting massive amounts of ambient light in the dark period).


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## Kuojne (13 Apr 2019)

Well, i did few water changes per week, instead of usual 1 change and the BBA did stop spreading, now i am battling plant ailment... The plant's older leaver are way darker green than the new ones, and they seem to be curling at the edges a little bit, plus getting some algae on it... I really do think that i am giving enough of CO2, it is at least 5-7 bubbles per second, the flow seems really good.. Is something wrong with my ferts? Am i making them incorrectly or something?


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