# Need some advice on how to get rid of this algae



## Cuber (25 Nov 2019)

Hello,

I have setup up a 25-gallon heavily planted high tech tank for about 8 months now. And ever since the second month it was set up I have been battling algae. For the most part, it has been blue-green algae but in the past 3 months, it has gotten really worse and now there is a brown looking hair algae in the carpet. And Brown algae on the glass and the filter tubes, as well as the co2 diffuser. There is also green algae on the glass as well as on the filter intake and outtake. The blue-green algae is pretty much everywhere on the rocks in the plants on the log and in the sand. I am really getting discouraged at this point and if I cant get rid of it soon I am getting rid of the tank.

Here is all of the info on the tank
-There is no livestock in the tank and the tank faces no direct sunlight

-Twinstar 600SA that sits 10CM above the tank. It also at 100% intensity (I am unable to get a dimmer where I live and no one will ship one to me either) It is on for 6 hours.

-Co2 is at around 2 bubbles per second it comes one 3 hours before the light does and goes off the same time as the light. Using the Co2 art pro elite regulator

-The fertilizer I am using Tropica specialized dosing 2ml every day

-I am changing about 50% of the water 2 times per week. I am also using RO water. Keeping the TDS around 120 to 150. Using Salty Shrimp GH KH+ for remineralization.

-Water temp stays around 21 to 22 degrees celsius.

-The filter I am using is a Fluval 406 canister filter that outputs 383 gallons per hour

- I have tried dosing hydrogen peroxide and had no luck.

-Ammonia is around 0.25ppm
-Nitrite is 0ppm
-Nitrate is 0ppm
-PH is around 6.7

Here are some pictures of the tank as well



 

 

 

 

 


 
If anybody as any suggestions that would be awesome!

Thanks


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## roadmaster (25 Nov 2019)

I were it me,knock light back to 5 hours, and get busy cleaning. Would take scissors to brown dead area in photo and use old tooth brush on wood,clean glass,Rake out what algae I could with old comb,tooth bush,bottle brush.
Clean diffuser, and check to make sure CO2 is being distributed properly,clean filter material.Try and determine why there is ammonia and no Nitrogen reading.(plants need nitrogen)
Tank just looks neglected to me and cleaning it up won't be quick so maybe if maint is too much for high tech,maybe consider low tech.
Might also introduce a dozen Amano shrimp after I took care to reduce ammonia level closer to zero if reading is correct. Ammonia could be higher at different point in day and shrimp would not last long. They do provide a small army of algae nibblers.


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## Cuber (25 Nov 2019)

roadmaster said:


> I were it me,knock light back to 5 hours, and get busy cleaning. Would take scissors to brown dead area in photo and use old tooth brush on wood,clean glass,Rake out what algae I could with old comb,tooth bush,bottle brush.
> Clean diffuser, and check to make sure CO2 is being distributed properly,clean filter material.Try and determine why there is ammonia and no Nitrogen reading.(plants need nitrogen)
> Tank just looks neglected to me and cleaning it up won't be quick so maybe if maint is too much for high tech,maybe consider low tech.
> Might also introduce a dozen Amano shrimp after I took care to reduce ammonia level closer to zero if reading is correct. Ammonia could be higher at different point in day and shrimp would not last long. They do provide a small army of algae nibblers.



Thanks for the suggestions! I will defiantly start working on that. Should. I increase the amount of fertilizer that I am using in order to increase the nitrogen. Right now I am dosing 2ml every day should I do 4 ml? Also should I increase the amount of water changes that I do? I am currently doing 50% twice a week 

Thanks


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## roadmaster (25 Nov 2019)

I would change 50% of water once a week.Sorry I don't know what fertilizer you are using or what directions call for, but 2 ml a day is not much more than a drop or two. I might try 5ml every  day just before lights on if I could.


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## Andrew Butler (25 Nov 2019)

Cuber said:


> (I am unable to get a dimmer where I live and no one will ship one to me either)


Can you not buy direct from Asia on ebay?
I can probably help get you one sent over from the UK if that helps, shipping costs depend on how desperate you are and something like £20 GBP would cover shipping but I would need to purchase the device for you. It is worth noting you would need an adaptor one side of the dimmer, I can't remember if it's 2.1-2.5mm or vice-versa but the info is on here somewhere.
I only ever run my Twinstar S at around 60%, unsure what others do.


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## Tim Harrison (25 Nov 2019)

Cuber said:


> Twinstar 600SA that sits 10CM above the tank. It also at 100% intensity (I am unable to get a dimmer where I live and no one will ship one to me either) It is on for 6 hours.


You really need to get a dimmer, that's way too much light. You need to dial it down to 60% for 6 hr photoperiod. This dimmer is from eBay Canada https://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-Light-D...465130?hash=item2acb998fea:g:ey0AAOSwLdJcwX8e, it's the one most folk use with the Twinstar S series


Cuber said:


> -Co2 is at around 2 bubbles per second it comes one 3 hours before the light does and goes off the same time as the light. Using the Co2 art pro elite regulator


Bubble rate is not an indication of CO2 conc. It's just a guide to help dial your CO2 in. You need a lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off.


Cuber said:


> The fertilizer I am using Tropica specialized dosing 2ml every day


That's probably not enough I'd double it at least, especially with that amount of light.


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## Tim Harrison (25 Nov 2019)

I think it's more likely that the higher plants will starve first, especially with the light on at 100%. In which case your strategy will only benefit algae.


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## Siege (25 Nov 2019)

I’d go with Tim’s post above.

Also think about oxygen. You have very little surface agitation. Increase this by moving the outlet upwards, get a nice surface ripple. Alternatively get a different outlet, one that points upwards more.
Keep the outlet and inlet where they are they are fine.

It is not flow on its own that helps BGA, it is lack of oxygen.

Running an air pump overnight may help also.

Loads of shrimp - amano will be best.

A massive deep clean. Hardscape, scrub, Filter tubing, filter, replace the sand, use a turkey baster to blast the substrate.
Don’t be afraid to do half a dozen massive water changes on the trot.

Do all the above at once, a massive blitz on it. You won’t know whatsolved it but it won’t come back!

(My money’s on lack of oxygen and waste organics).

Ps. Dose more also. I’d be adding 10ml per day in a high energy set up" look at changing to either EI or a more cost effective complete fertiliser.


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## Siege (25 Nov 2019)




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## Tim Harrison (25 Nov 2019)

My favourite movie


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## Siege (25 Nov 2019)

Just read your initial post again. 

You state that nitrate is zero. No way it should be. That nitrate is food for the plants.

Comes back to underdosing whilst using ro water.

Also consider ro water is basically ‘dead’ water void of oxygen. That’ll be helping the algae also.


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## sparkyweasel (25 Nov 2019)

Definitely need to dose more fertz.
And more cleaning until things are back on track. BGA thrives on organic waste.
How is the flow? Do all the plants sway in the current?
Have you done/could you do a pH profile? ie measure the pH every 30mins from before the CO2 turns on, till after the lights go off.


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## Cuber (26 Nov 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> You really need to get a dimmer, that's way too much light. You need to dial it down to 60% for 6 hr photoperiod. This dimmer is from eBay Canada https://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-Light-D...465130?hash=item2acb998fea:g:ey0AAOSwLdJcwX8e, it's the one most folk use with the Twinstar S series
> 
> Bubble rate is not an indication of CO2 conc. It's just a guide to help dial your CO2 in. You need a lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions! I am doing a water change tomorrow and I will implement everything that was suggested here


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## Cuber (26 Nov 2019)

Siege said:


> Just read your initial post again.
> 
> You state that nitrate is zero. No way it should be. That nitrate is food for the plants.
> 
> ...



You are probably right. The test kit I have is cheap and not accurate. I will definitely get a better test kit and start adding more nutrients.


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## Cuber (26 Nov 2019)

Thanks for all the reply's guys! I am doing a water change tomorrow and I will do my best to try and implement everything that was suggested. After my water change and the changes I will upload more photos.


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## Cuber (27 Nov 2019)

OK, so I have done a big cleaning. Did a 100% water change, cleaned the rocks and the log with a tooth brush and a turkey baster trimmed the plants and blasted the substrate with the baster. I also cleaned the filter completely. I have dimmed the Twinstar 600SA to 60% for 6 hours and increased by ferts to 6 ml everyday (I am using Tropica specialized) I am thinking of buying a circulation pump to address the flow. The one that I am thinking of is the Hydor Koralia Nano 240 which does 240 GPH. Will that be good enough? Or should I go bigger? The one up does 425 GPH. Here is the link to the pump.

https://www.amazon.ca/Hydor-Koralia...14?keywords=wave+maker&qid=1574879656&sr=8-14

Here are some pictures of the tank after the water change. Thanks!


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## Tim Harrison (27 Nov 2019)

That looks much better. 
A thought's just occurred to me, where did you get the log from, did you find it yourself in the great outdoors ?


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## Cuber (27 Nov 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> That looks much better.
> A thought's just occurred to me, where did you get the log from, did you find it yourself in the great outdoors ?



Thanks! I found the log and a pet store. I think they called it beauty wood. Any suggestions on which circulation pump I should get?


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## Tim Harrison (27 Nov 2019)

Cuber said:


> beauty wood


I don't think I've ever heard of that type of DW. It could be the source of all your woes. Maybe it's been sat there slowly rotting all this time and constantly increasing the organic load of your tank, which would make conditions ideal for algae despite your best efforts. I unfortunately experienced something very similar with a lump of DW, once I removed it algae ceased to be a problem.



Cuber said:


> Any suggestions on which circulation pump I should get?


Maybe you don't need that circulation pump. I think your Fluval should be providing enough flow already.


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## Siege (27 Nov 2019)

Looking better! 

I’d suggest doing it again! Get the rest of the bba (it’s pearling under the wood). Clean your glassware and filter tubing, it’s living in there also.

Keep doing massive water changes, I do 2 on the trot on my similar sized tank and other do 2 spaced throughout the week (each as big as livestock allows).

Try raising or tilting the lily pipe to increase surface agitation a bit. Not tonnes just a nice ripple.

From my experience it’s not flow that is your problem, it is lack of oxygen.

If that doesn’t work then try the pump but I’ve found they will just damage plants rather than help, especially if you have an underlying issue.


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## MJQMJQ (30 Nov 2019)

Your driftwood doesnt leach tannins?I would have some serious leaching from driftwood that size.I dont boil the driftwood because I like the tannins but sometimes it can be too much.


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## sparkyweasel (30 Nov 2019)

People will call any old wood driftwood to sell it. Real driftwood became popular because it doesn't leach tannins, having lost them to the sea. Wave action removes the bark and any weak or soft parts, and rounds off any sharp bits where it was broken or cut. The disadvantage is that it floats and needs to be fixed down.


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## Cuber (30 Nov 2019)

MJQMJQ said:


> Your driftwood doesnt leach tannins?I would have some serious leaching from driftwood that size.I dont boil the driftwood because I like the tannins but sometimes it can be too much.



I did boil the wood for a long time in order to get the tannins out. I also soaked the wood for about a month before I put it into the tank. So for the most part I don't get too many tannins


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## MJQMJQ (30 Nov 2019)

Cuber said:


> I did boil the wood for a long time in order to get the tannins out. I also soaked the wood for about a month before I put it into the tank. So for the most part I don't get too many tannins


In that case its prob not the wood that feeding the algae.Only thing I can think of is not enough plant mass really.For now just scrub off the algae manually hehe you might wanna superglue or tie some plants onto the wood as well to give u more area for growing stuff.


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## Cuber (30 Nov 2019)

OK, another update, I did another big water change 50% + and I also cleaned the filter again and cleaned the tubes and the pipes. Here are some pictures.



 

 

 




I am now working on trying to get more surface agitation. I have tired to raising the Lilly pipe as close as I can get it to the surface of the water, It is creating more agitation but I am unsure if it is enough. So I did buy a small wave maker to try and help. Here are two videos 

This one shows without the wave maker


And here is with the wave maker


Let me know if I should keep the wave maker on or if the Lilly pipe is good enough. Any more suggestions are always welcome!

Thanks


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## Siege (30 Nov 2019)

Now that’s more like it! 

Personally I’d ditch the wave maker as it is blasting straight at the stems.

Instead get a different lily pipe that points upwards or simply stick a sucker type thing on the outside of the glass, under the outlet to tilt the lily upwards if that makes sense.

I can post a picture of what I mean tomorrow if you like?


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## Cuber (30 Nov 2019)

Siege said:


> Now that’s more like it!
> 
> Personally I’d ditch the wave maker as it is blasting straight at the stems.
> 
> ...



Yeah, if your able to post a picture it might help me get a better understanding of what you mean. 

thanks!


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## Siege (30 Nov 2019)

No probs will post tomorrow evening.

We’ve done it a couple of times in the shop. Costs pence and works. 

Actually one of @Geoffrey Rea few good ideas!


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

Siege said:


> Actually one of @Geoffrey Rea few good ideas!



It’s all lies. Absolutely know nothing. Every ounce the idiot you suspect


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## Siege (30 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It’s all lies. Absolutely know nothing. Every ounce the idiot you suspect



Says the guy who made Tropica’s Telford show tank!


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

@Cuber 

Very much suspect the drift wood you have was stored outside in the elements before you bought it from the pet store i.e. not thoroughly dried out before sale and carrying some unwelcome guests. Think @Tim Harrison was bang on the money in this game of Cluedo.



Cuber said:


> ever since the second month it was set up I have been battling algae. For the most part, it has been blue-green algae but in the past 3 months, it has gotten really worse



The overall health of the plants in the tank looks great despite the problems, they are doing their best to muscle through. All the remedial actions you’ve taken appear to have improved matters so far.

BGA/Cyanobacteria has to be manually removed as much as possible. BBA has to be evicted by forced removal. Can’t say for definite that the source of these problems started from the wood, but they didn’t appear by magic.

Luckily it appears to be one piece of wood. If it were my operation I would remove the wood entirely if possible to eliminate the possibility and do one of the following two options:

1) boil that wood (which is a PITA and isn’t guaranteed to completely solve issues) then re-soak it and place back in the tank or...

2) paint glutaraldehyde on every surface, crevice and edge of the wood (scorched earth style), thoroughly rinse and leave soaking in water for a few days. Glutaraldehyde has a half life so any hazardous effects will subside but do it outside and don’t breath it in. Get a vapour mask that’s P3 rated with goggles (retail for around £30 in the UK) from your local hardware store and some rubber gloves.

Just speculation, bare that it mind, but see if this version of events makes sense given you’re the OP.


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## Siege (30 Nov 2019)

@Geoffrey Rea

Cuber mentions that he boiled the wood for a ‘long time’.

I wonder if the long period of boiling has caused the wood to soak up hot water fast, rotting the middle way before it’s  natural time and leaching organics.

@Cuber
I’m unsure of above so would like Geoff’s view.
Normally we would simply Chuck it in the tank, glue it down with a glue such as JBL Pro Haru and place Purigen in the filter. This combined with water changes will remove the tannins.

I’ll still bet my money on that the problem is lack of oxygen though, maybe the above is increasing the problem?


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

Siege said:


> I wonder if the long period of boiling has caused the wood to soak up hot water fast, rotting the middle way before it’s natural time and leaching organics.



I agree and wonder why we think this is a good idea full stop, hence the hesitation to suggest it. Have boiled wood with naturally attached moss stuck to it... the moss carried on growing when placed into a brand new tank with an uncycled filter. Says a lot for the boiling method and preventing life from getting a foot hold, wanted or otherwise.

@sparkyweasel describes what driftwood used to be in the hobby:



sparkyweasel said:


> People will call any old wood driftwood to sell it. Real driftwood became popular because it doesn't leach tannins, having lost them to the sea. Wave action removes the bark and any weak or soft parts, and rounds off any sharp bits where it was broken or cut. The disadvantage is that it floats and needs to be fixed down.



Oxygen, or lack of, through an inconsistent replenishing either through surface agitation/biological means/electrolysis device/filter design is a limiting factor for any system to acquire a balance in any aquarium. Everything is dependent on o2 twenty four hours a day.

Lily pipes ‘should’ draw water down in a vortex to break the water surface but they very seldom do this these days due to bad QC or the difficulty of blowing and shaping glass into a standard shape. No one wants to pay £200+ for a good lily pipe so we’re back to:



Siege said:


> Instead get a different lily pipe that points upwards or simply stick a sucker type thing on the outside of the glass, under the outlet to tilt the lily upwards if that makes sense.



It’s all in the recovery with these sort of scenarios. My point of view is based on being keen on locating the origin of problems, remedial action only matters if you solve this first.

If I’m being completely honest these days I would probably throw away that wood if I had any doubts about it and concentrate on everything else in the tank and look to replace it. It wouldn’t be my first rodeo with regards to a piece of hardscape causing havoc in a tank that got better after removal. However, that’s probably not what most people would want to do or want to hear.


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## Siege (30 Nov 2019)

.......and in English -

bin the wood................,don’t boil it’s replacement............., in future get more oxygen in the tank!

As you can tell my degree isn’t in science.............!


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

Look at how healthy your plants are around the wood and look at the wood:













Pretty much all other concerns:

- low o2 (waste organics eating it up)
- low nitrate (under-dosing? or Cyanobacteria eating it up like Christmas dinner? or faulty testing?)

Everything has too many far fetched explanations that involve reaching. Look at the pictures.

Your set up is tight @Cuber so it should reflect this.


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## Siege (1 Dec 2019)

Bloody obvious when summarised in the pictures.


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## Cuber (1 Dec 2019)

Thanks guys! Makes sense from those pictures. I will defiantly be getting rid of the wood. It might take me a couple of weeks due to the fact I will have to order a new place of wood and some more rocks and plants for the escape but once I do I will post som updated pictures I am thinking of getting some real Malaysian driftwood or pacific wood, would that wood be safe? And would you have any suggestions where I could get some online that will ship to Canada?

As for the low nitrates should I be dosing more fertilizer? Right now I am doing 6ml of tropica specialized everyday. Is that enough or should I increase it more


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Dec 2019)

Cuber said:


> I will have to order a new place of wood and some more rocks and plants for the escape



Up to you if you want to rescape @Cuber but I will be silently sobbing into my pillow tonight if you do. It’s a lovely scape and minus that specific piece of wood your plants and your equipment/setup in general is really, really nice. You’ve invested eight months getting it to this point and it’s completely retrievable if you decide to with a tiny bit more persistence.

Alternatively, if you do instead choose to start over all I would say is look at your tank very closely before you do. Look at problem areas and how those problems dissipate inch by inch as you get further away. They’re the best lessons and will teach you more than any smooth running successful tank ever will.

Tropica recommend 6 mL (3 pumps) per 50 L water weekly. So 25 gallons, roughly 95 litres, so call it 100 litres. Given your soil is eight months old and you use RO water I wouldn’t be afraid of doing 1-2 pumps (2-4ml) per day with a water change of 50% weekly. That will still be lean with the stem plants and light set to 100% but theoretically should cover your needs by volume and setup.


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## Cuber (1 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Up to you if you want to rescape @Cuber but I will be silently sobbing into my pillow tonight if you do. It’s a lovely scape and minus that specific piece of wood your plants and your equipment/setup in general is really, really nice. You’ve invested eight months getting it to this point and it’s completely retrievable if you decide to with a tiny bit more persistence.
> 
> Alternatively, if you do instead choose to start over all I would say is look at your tank very closely before you do. Look at problem areas and how those problems dissipate inch by inch as you get further away. They’re the best lessons and will teach you more than any smooth running successful tank ever will.
> 
> Tropica recommend 6 mL (3 pumps) per 50 L water weekly. So 25 gallons, roughly 95 litres, so call it 100 litres. Given your soil is eight months old and you use RO water I wouldn’t be afraid of doing 1-2 pumps (2-4ml) per day with a water change of 50% weekly. That will still be lean with the stem plants and light set to 100% but theoretically should cover your needs by volume and setup.



Ok thanks,

I am not planning on a complete re-scape just a re-scape where the log is. But since I doubt I will be able to find a similar looking piece of wood that would be better suited for a planted tank I will have to make some changes. 

Thanks!


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Dec 2019)

Cuber said:


> I am really getting discouraged at this point and if I cant get rid of it soon I am getting rid of the tank.



My mistake, one too many brews last night  Interpreted your other comments on top of the above to mean you were going to start over , which would be a real shame. Lovely scape once again by the way. Hope you find something even better to go in it’s place.


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## MJQMJQ (2 Dec 2019)

Cuber said:


> Ok thanks,
> 
> I am not planning on a complete re-scape just a re-scape where the log is. But since I doubt I will be able to find a similar looking piece of wood that would be better suited for a planted tank I will have to make some changes.
> 
> Thanks!


If I were you I would clean off as much algae as possible and stick plants onto the wood so its about 40-50% covered at least.Reason being that the plants would get the nutrients before the algae does hopefully.Your driftwood is still "new" and definitely leaching nutrients.


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## Cuber (31 Dec 2019)

OK big update,

So i have found a couple of new pieces of driftwood I have gotten pacific wood. I have just changed out the wood today. I had the new piece of wood soaking for about 2 weeks. I also did not boil the new piece. So here is a list of everything that I am currently doing now.

-50% water changes once or twice a week.
-Dosing 6 ml of tropica specialized everyday
-I am also still using RO water with a TDS of 120 to 140
-I have moved the outflow lily pipe as close as I can to the surface to try and get more surface agitation. I found that if I raise it any higher then the flow starts to suffer
-Water temp is around 21 to 22 degrees Celsius 
-the twinstar 600SA is set to 60% intensity for 6 hours
-I am still trying to figure out C02, for the most part the checker is a darker green when the lights come on it turns lighter green through the day.

Since I just changed the log today I will update again shortly to see if the algae returns. In the weeks leading up to me replacing the log I was still getting a bunch of blue green and hair algae.

Here are some updated pictures of the tank. The wood that's there right now is still floating a bit so that's why there are some rocks on top. Once the log sinks completely I will get rid of the rocks and maybe add some smaller pieces of the same type of wood.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions if there are anymore please let me know

Thanks again!


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## Cuber (7 Jan 2020)

Here is a one week update since I put in the new log.

So far the algae doesn't seem to be as bad. There is still some blue green and a little hair algae but its not coming back as bad nor as fast.

So for the most part it better but there is still some algae coming back. If anybody has any other suggestions for what I am doing wrong that would be great!

For maintenance I am still doing what is in the post above. Here are some updated pictures.


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## Wookii (14 Jan 2020)

Cuber said:


> Here is a one week update since I put in the new log.
> 
> So far the algae doesn't seem to be as bad. There is still some blue green and a little hair algae but its not coming back as bad nor as fast.
> 
> ...



Try and get your drop checker to light green by the time the lights go on. This can mean having CO2 switch on up to three hours before the lights come on. You might also want to experiment with having the diffuser on the same side as the lily pipe, to see if that gives you better distribution of the CO2, and allows less bubbles to make it to the surface.

Some of the leaves on your plants also look to be struggling a little with some holes and bad patches on them. I don't know if they are original old leaves from your original algae outbreak, or new ones since you added the new wood? Either way, you may want to look at your fert regime. Others more knowledgeable then me on this forum may be able to offer more specific nutrient advice, but I'd personally recommend moving to EI dry salt if you can. It'll be a damn sight cheaper than the Tropica ferts, and at least you'l be sure that nutrient limitation isn't an issue - plus you are already doing the required 50% water change.

Finally, I don't now what you plan to do with regards to critters, but even if you really don't want fish, if it were me I'd be sticking a couple of dozen Cherry shrimp and a couple of horned nerite snails in there at a minimum - they'll do an amazing vanishing trick with any algae you have re-appearing, and they're fascinating to watch in a planted tank!


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