# Preventing the next End of Tank Dump (EOTD)



## Ted (8 Jan 2014)

Hello – I’m writing my first post on the board in need of some advice from CO2 experts. Additionally, I hope that my story may serve as a cautionary tale to other CO2 amateurs like myself.

*The Nightmare*
Yesterday, my girlfriend and I experienced the dreaded end of tank dump (EOTD) from my JBL Proflora m602 kit. We found most of our fish (including colonies of beloved panda garras and petricolae synondotis) dead and the rest gasping for air. Now we're faced with a challenge - how do we modify our existing set-up so this will never happen again. 

*Background + Equipment*
We have a 240L densely planted tank with 4 39w T5s, 1000l/h of filtration and another 1250l/h of flow. We’re running the JBL Proflora m602 set-up with a JBL ProFlora m2000 tank. We bought the JBL tank filled in August (5 months ago). We run the CO2 through an Up Inline Atomizer. In order to get the necessary pressure to run the atomizer – I had to override the pressure on the regulator to 2.0.

*The Malfunction*
The tank was reading about 45 bars (below the 50 indicative of a tank running low) but I thought nothing of it since our LFS that sold us the setup said the 2KG cylinder would last a year. In the early hours of the morning, the tank dumped its remaining CO2 driving the pH down precipitously leaving the CO2 PH Test kit bright yellow. To rescue the remaining fish, my girlfriend (1) turned the powerjets upward to disturb the water and allow in more O2, (2) turned on the lights to allow the plants to photosynthesize more water and (3) did an emergency water change with a python.

*Question I: Where did we go wrong?*
Where did we go wrong? Sometimes equipment malfunctions but usually human error is at least partly to blame. Was the mistake running the 2KG cylinder on a kit made for a 500g cylinder? Was the mistake turning up the regulator pressure up to support the inline diffuser? Was it just bad luck?

*Question 2: What do we do now?*
We have a tank full of plants that need CO2 and I’m not comfortable putting the rest of our fish in danger with the existing set-up. What are my options for failsafe modifications that will allow me to pump CO2 while letting me sleep easy at night. JBL has ignored my emails and this is way over the LFS’ head. I’m open to all suggestions and price isn’t really an issue as long as the fix costs <£250.

*Some options I’ve read about:*
-Online I’ve read about using the JBL Proflora PH Computer Set. The thinking is that a subsequent EOTP would trigger the computer to throttle down the needle valve in time to save my fish. My concern is that the inline atomizer adds delay to the injection of CO2 and that the PH Computer would do too little too late.
 -Double stage regulator. I don’t even understand what this is and I think the m602 already has one.

Thanks so much. For newbies or those in the market for a C02 system – I hope you can learn from my experience and avoid your own sad morning.


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## John S (8 Jan 2014)

Sorry to hear of your troubles and loss.

With your current set up I'd say you just have to keep and eye on your bottle pressure. Once the pressure starts to drop the bottle is on its way out. my 2K bottle is normally at 60, once it gets to 45ish it is time to get a refill.

You'd be very lucky to get a year out of a 2KG bottle unless your injection rate is very low.

The other alternative is to get a dual stage regulator but these tend to be expensive.


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## sanj (8 Jan 2014)

Oh man sorry you have had to go through that. I have experienced CO2 gassing but not through cylinder dumping.

Do you use a regulator with two gauges on it?

Personally I have never used a inline atomiser, but have you considered CO2 reactor like the one made by Sera? You would not have to up the pressure with these. I use CO2 reactors; Sera, TMC, Aquamas (German), or you can go Aquamedic. Personally I think the Sera ones are the best value.


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## Ted (8 Jan 2014)

Really appreciate the input. I do use a regulator with two gauges on it - but I'm pretty sure the JBL Proflora is single stage.


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## John S (8 Jan 2014)

Ted, just reading your first post again do you run your CO2 24/7 without a solenoid?


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## Andy Thurston (8 Jan 2014)

http://www.airproducts.com/~/media/Files/PDF/company/safetygram-12.pdf

Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator and Solenoid Magnetic Valve | CO2Art.co.uk - CO2 Aquarium Specialists

You could have a leak too.


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## Ted (8 Jan 2014)

I do have a solenoid... but have been running it 24/7. I tried turning it off at night with a timer but the inline diffuser is a pain. It takes hours to push the water out in the AM.


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## Rob P (9 Jan 2014)

Ted said:


> It takes hours to push the water out in the AM


 
Sounds like you need a better reg! The one Big Clown linked to (CO2 Art) will be ideal, i have their cheaper version (not dual stage) with CO2 Art inline diffuser and it's caused no issues at all.


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## kirk (9 Jan 2014)

SorRy to hear that I lost my rasboras To my co2 error. after big clown asked that your co2 is on all day realized the answer is a new reliable defuser and use the timmer. any pics of how your diffuser is set up? Have you cleaned it recently. cheers Kirk.  Or reG is playing up.


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## Yo-han (9 Jan 2014)

This EOTD got me thinking a while back as well. I solved it used a pH controlled set to prevent this. The problem is I didn't want to inject CO2 at night, so I installed an extra solonoid to shut the CO2 off at night. I think this is about the safest system to use, but it isn't cheap. On my 20L this isn't an option (costwise) so I only use it during lights on and check every morning (I dose ferts every morning) for a lower bottle pressure. Because the working pressure is lower (only about a bubble a second instead of over 10 per second on my other tank) the EOTD is slower and easier to adjust. I can imagine this is almost impossible to do with an atomizer.


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## Ted (9 Jan 2014)

Cool - thanks very much everybody. You've given me great advice and piece of mind. I just ordered a dual stage regulator from O2 Art and am considering whether I need to go with the PH computer as well. 

I'm quite partial to an up inline atomizer given the size of the tank. Has anybody successfully run an up inline with a PH controller?


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## ian_m (9 Jan 2014)

Ted said:


> Has anybody successfully run an up inline with a PH controller?


A pH controller isn't really used in planted tanks as there are too many other variables that effect pH eg your water supply, amount of rotting plants (& dead fish) etc etc. Most people just run CO2 off a timer and use a drop checker which "isolates" the drop check indicator from the pH of the water.


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## Yo-han (9 Jan 2014)

I agree with Ian, unless you use it the way I use it, not for the exact number, but to keep it steady. Like a limit. If I go by the number, with a KH of 5,7-6,1 and a pH of 6,2-6,3 I'm gassing all fish. If you ordered a dual stage regulator, you don't need it!


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