# Eheim 2178 Professional 3e - Output and filter issue



## John44 (21 Dec 2016)

The Kit

Juwel Trigon 190 Aquarium
190 Litres

Filtration
Eheim 2178 Professional 3e 600T Thermofilter

Substrate
TMC AquaGro Nutrasoil Brown

so its been running fine for 4 weeks but over the last 2 weeks every 2 or 3 days the filter output has reduced dramatically, when I check I fidn that the white mechanical filter which is just under the first basket has a brown collection of stuff as you can see in the picture, once i rinse this filter output is back to normal - is this right

first picture is the top tray with the blue sponge which works fine and removes all the odd bits of foliage I miss



 
Second picture which is the culprit


 
Thoughts appreciated

John B


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## John S (21 Dec 2016)

In the second picture it looks like there is a dent in the floss media that looks like it was made by the impellor part of the pump head. This basket should be covered by a green grill, do you have this fitted and have just taken it out for the picture?


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## John44 (21 Dec 2016)

ahh the green grill is under the floss - I will change that  - so obvious

Thanks
John B


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## Adam Chambers (21 Dec 2016)

Even with the grill on top all I end up with is the grill bump indent and and that area goes brown instead and does the same thing. I am not sure on real solution to this other than maybe moving the filter pad down another basket with it not so full to see if that helps.


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## John44 (21 Dec 2016)

so not just me, a common issue

John B


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## Adam Chambers (21 Dec 2016)

Appears so. It appears the floss picks up all the particles (as it should) but then of course because it is centralised with the flow rather than being evenly distributed. That is why I feel moving it lower may help where there is more free flow.


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## John44 (21 Dec 2016)

next time i have to clean it (which will be a couple of days) I will move it down and see what happens

John B


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## Adam Chambers (21 Dec 2016)

I would try it but I am awaiting for the replacement impeller spindle that snapped on first start up with new head they sent as they sent the wrong one first time. So not had much luck. I am using the Eheim Pro 3 2180 1200 XLT so it is head design on all their filters with this issue. 

The rep even said that it can get bunged quickly if you have lots of fine particles. I think I will go back to Fluval and their big canisters. Nothing special about them but they work without too much issue. Especially as a heavily planted tank, the canister filter is really doing more mechanical filtration than biological (assuming you balance it right).


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## alto (21 Dec 2016)

I've not seen such a "point" concentration of debris, I've run Eheims going back to their basic canister, Professional 2, 3 & 4 series & debris is always quite evenly distributed across the filter pad, I tend to only "clean" the filter every few months (despite good intentions), there is some flow loss but it's gradual, certainly not noticeable during the first 4-5 weeks ... of course maybe I never seen the "point" as my white pad is very unwhite by the time I see it 

Lately I've just set up my Eheims with the included kit media as per the box suggestion.

I did have some Fluval cansiters some years back, but could always hear the filter hum (significantly noisier than Eheim), also had breakdowns & refusals to start, replaced impellers regularly so just not too happy.
I did look at the G6 & G3's after George Farmer liked his so well, but again the only display model I found was quite noisy & the replacement cartridges were considerably more expensive (than my Eheim consumables), again lfs stock was very hit & miss on availability of the consumables & G6/G3 were more significantly expensive than Eheim   

I went out & listened to various canister before buying Eheim 3 & 4 Series, Eheim was just much quieter, some of the other filters also use considerably lower quality plastics & fiddly bits - just waiting to break & no one carries parts locally & shipping is expensive & slow, or slightly  cheaper & very slow


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## Adam Chambers (21 Dec 2016)

Have had 4 different filters from Eheim and this is the first Pro 3 and I have it set up as the manual and debris collect constantly where the filter head drawers the water back through. I have so far on this Pro 3 had a faulty heater, broken pump, primer button not work and impeller shaft snapped so have lost a lot of faith in Eheim in honestly considering the costs.

The Fluval FX6 is cheaper made but then it is cheaper generally and tbh I haven't heard any particularly noise.

The problem with the eheim so far is I am only getting about a weeks worth of flow before I need to clean out the white polishing pad and that was prior to having anything in the tank at all apart from 3 bits of wood (as my original images in my posts Alto). I don't have any reason why they seem to collect but they certainly do at the outlet pipe location under the grill. Maybe I have overfilled the media trays and thus putting pressure on the unit? However I brought the media set for the unit so surely that is made to suit the requirements?


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## dw1305 (22 Dec 2016)

Hi all,





Adam Chambers said:


> so far is I am only getting about a weeks worth of flow before I need to clean out the white polishing pad.........Maybe I have overfilled the media trays and thus putting pressure on the unit?


I'd take out the polishing pad and 1/2 the "Mech Pro"(for starters) from the media. 

cheers Darrel


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## Adam Chambers (22 Dec 2016)

Aye, was going to try to remove some of the media from the filter this weekend. Why remove the fine polishing pad though. That is the only part picking up the smaller particles? 

Regards,

Adam


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## dw1305 (22 Dec 2016)

Hi all,





Adam Chambers said:


> Why remove the fine polishing pad though. That is the only part picking up the smaller particles?


I don't like any <"easily clogged media"> in the filter body. 

Partially that is because I'm pretty lazy and it is a chore to keep opening the filter body every time the flow drops, but the more important reason is that if the water is held in the filter for longer, or begins to bypass the biological filter media, the media <"may become de-oxygenated">. 

This is much less of a problem for us when compared to those people who don't have planted tanks, but it is still undesirable, and potentially fatal, for your livestock. 

cheers Darrel


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## Adam Chambers (22 Dec 2016)

That is fair enough. Do you just avoid worrying about picking up the smaller particles? I don't mind opening it up but it would just be better if it was once a month. 

I am not sure it would be able to bypass the biological media with the design. However I understand the water being held for longer. I am not sure the low flow that happens would be an issue generally as it is still flowing and not stagnant. If it got that bad I would of thought you would notice and thus be taking it apart anyways? So the main issue would be if going away for a long weekend and it becoming stagnant. Maybe it best just to run the pad for a day after the water change and then remove it? And then repeat the following week? 

Regards,

Adam


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## dw1305 (22 Dec 2016)

Hi all,





Adam Chambers said:


> Do you just avoid worrying about picking up the smaller particles?


I have a pre-filter on the intake to take care of all the mechanical filtration, the downside is that you have a sponge block etc in the tank. I have very weedy tanks so I can hide them. 

I usually use the black <"12" x 4" x 4" PPI20"> sponges that they sell for Koi ponds etc. They have a drilled central 25mm hole that extends 3/4 of the way down the sponge

Eheim sell a prefilter ("part no. 4004320"), but I don't think you can use it with the Professional 3e series?

I think you can buy 16/22mm 1.5 litre volume external pre-filters (so like a canister filter without a pump) from SunSun and Jaqno, but I've never seen one in the flesh, and it would reduce flow.

cheers Darrel


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## Adam Chambers (22 Dec 2016)

Cheers Darrel,

In essence would the pre-filter not block the same as the canister filter and thus cause the same issue if not more so by already reducing flow by the canister filter trying to drawer water through the pre-filter, at least ones such as the Eheim unit? 

Will have some thoughts. It might just be to go for a more course polish pad internally. The filter wadding seems to compact so maybe by using a foam pad instead that is still fine but wont compact from the pressure it will work better. The black sponge you use there for instance if that come in a sheet that is 10mm thick I could cut it to suit I think and make it work better. 

Regards,

Adam


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## EdwinK (22 Dec 2016)

I'm with Darrel here - my both filters run without white floss because of the reasons mentioned above and somehow I do not notice any small particles. Maybe it is because I have a first (lowest) basket filled with coarse sponges working as a prefilter.


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## Adam Chambers (22 Dec 2016)

Maybe, as mentioned I think I will try to get a bit of sponge as fine as the black sponge linked in sheet form to cut up and see how that goes.


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## dw1305 (22 Dec 2016)

Hi all, 





Adam Chambers said:


> In essence would the pre-filter not block the same as the canister filter and thus cause the same issue if not more so by already reducing flow by the canister filter trying to drawer water through the pre-filter, at least ones such as the Eheim unit?


Yes, they clog equally quickly, the main advantage is that they are very quick to clean, because you don't have to open the filter body etc. 

If you have a really substantial foam block you can leave them longer between cleanings, but you may have issues with water clarity when you remove them. I semi submerge a plastic jug and then move the sponge into under-water, but you will inevitably spill some mulm laden water back into the tank. 





EdwinK said:


> Maybe it is because I have a first (lowest) basket filled with coarse sponges working as a prefilter.


I like coarse foam. The Eheim Classics I own are set up like this, but I still have a pre-filter.  





Adam Chambers said:


> I will try to get a bit of sponge as fine as the black sponge linked in sheet form to cut up


That is a good idea, I usually DIY replacement sponges etc from reticulated polyether aquatic filter foam sheet.

cheers Darrel


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## Adam Chambers (22 Dec 2016)

Will do this next week while off and report back then. Cheers for all the info and tips and sorry OP for hijacking thread but hope it helps you also


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## sciencefiction (29 Dec 2016)

Adam Chambers said:


> In essence would the pre-filter not block the same as the canister filter and thus cause the same issue if not more so by already reducing flow by the canister filter trying to drawer water through the pre-filter, at least ones such as the Eheim unit?



I don't get any reduction in filter flow by using a pre-filter sponge. I wash them once weekly or bi-weekly. I don't open the filters that much otherwise but all mine are full of coarse sponges as media, no floss. I also have a layer of some ceramic media too in each.  It keeps the water pretty clean this way and does not restrict the flow. As Darrel said, pulling of the prefilter sponges to wash them will release gunk into the tank. I suppose the "jug method" helps  I just siphon it out once it settles at the bottom as I normally do a water change at the same time.

 The reduction in flow in yours must be some sort of fault or design issue. I am not sure a pre-filter sponge will help much. The filter floss on the picture is not looking dirty enough to restrict flow but it seems there's a dent in it and as already suggested, it must be pulled in by the pump somehow, although I can't understand why would this be happening in the first instance if following the normal filter set up instructions.

For pre-filter sponges I use blocks of coarse enough foam. I just cut a hole in the middle(not all the way down) and slide the intake into it. Here's a picture of one of mine. The light in the tank is off, so not the best one I could take...It's not the most aesthetic solution and not for everyone's taste but it works great, and small fish love munching on these, so do shrimp.


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