# Fert dosing soft water?



## Bert2oo1 (13 Feb 2017)

Hey guys I've recently set up a 220l planted tank. I'm fairly new to planted tanks (had them for about a year now) and I'm trying to figure out my fert dosing for this tank.

I have 30-35ppm of co2 delivered through a cerges reactor.

Medium plant mass

Substrate- Eco complete

TDS from tap is 40ppm

So I started out dosing full EI, 
2.2g kno3
0.5g kh2po4
11.15g mgso4
4 times a week

0.6g micro's 
3 times per week.

After dosing for 2 weeks my plants began to yellow/bleach, my AR mini started curling all its leafs, hygrophila had red patches, dark green veins,bleaching and curling. Even my crypts had deformed growth.

I put this down to one thing. Possible toxicity. I feel I had all other bases covered to rule out deficiency.

I did 2 large water changes followed by my weekly 50%.

For the next week I have dosed full EI macros the same as listed above and I dropped the micro's to 0.2g 3 times per week. I supplemented the iron with seachem iron to get it to 0.6ppm over a week (0.2ppm per dose).

After 3 days the plants looked a lot better and growth rate became rapid. By the end of the week growth stopped dead and the leafs began to stunt and curl.

This week I'm not dosing any micro's at all and only adding iron (0.6ppm over the week)

Is there something that I'm missing? Should I do away with the micro mix and go to seachem trace or something similar?


Any advice is greatly appreciated. 
Cheers

Few pics: 
http://pho.to/AcAow





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ian_m (13 Feb 2017)

What is your lighting level and timing ?

What is your tap water KH/GH, as you seem worried by it ?

The symptoms of lack of calcium can appear to be similar to lack of iron and/or magnesium.

If your tap water is well and truly soft then try adding a bit of remineralising to your tap water.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm


----------



## Bert2oo1 (13 Feb 2017)

ian_m said:


> What is your lighting level and timing ?
> 
> What is your tap water KH/GH, as you seem worried by it ?
> 
> ...



I would be at 80-100 par at substrate 7 hours of full intensity scaling back to 10% strength over the next hour then 10% for 1 hour and light off. 

My tap is 
KH 1 
GH 2

If I dose the mineraliser will I no longer need to dose mgso4? 

Am I able to just adjust the calcium or should I be adjusting the GH as a whole? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ian_m (13 Feb 2017)

Woow sounds very high light for a long time especially if plants are new.

Solutions are.
- Back off light brightness and timing to say 4 hours for a couple of weeks until plants settle in.
- Carry on as is. Generally new growth should be fine. But watch out for algae.
- Try hardening the water a tad using the link before. Getting it to 4-8KH/GH will be fine.


----------



## Bert2oo1 (13 Feb 2017)

ian_m said:


> Woow sounds very high light for a long time especially if plants are new.
> 
> Solutions are.
> - Back off light brightness and timing to say 4 hours for a couple of weeks until plants settle in.
> ...



Do I continue to dose full EI micro's? Once I add the GH booster that is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ian_m (13 Feb 2017)

Bert2oo1 said:


> Do I continue to dose full EI micro's? Once I add the GH booster that is


Yes full EI, only because I have seen so many times where people roll their own dosing methods/schedules and run into trouble.


----------



## Bert2oo1 (14 Feb 2017)

ian_m said:


> Yes full EI, only because I have seen so many times where people roll their own dosing methods/schedules and run into trouble.



Another question sorry! With the GH booster do I just add those amounts x8 for a 200l aquarium? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ian_m (14 Feb 2017)

Bert2oo1 said:


> With the GH booster can I just add enough to make 2 litres or do I need to make the full 25litres to be able to bottle it into say a 1 or 2 litre bottle?


You are meant to add these amounts for 25 litres or RO (or your tap water) before using this water in your tank.

However I cant see why you can't mix up a concentrated solution and just add that to your tank. The limiting factor will be poor solubility of calcium sulphate (I think all the other salts are very soluble), which is only 2.4gr/1000ml. So you could mix up 1litre solutions and add that 1litre to each 25litre (or maybe 50litre) of water to raise the KH/GH a bit.

Better would be to buy say 20 of these, and weigh out the ingredients into these.
http://www.ampulla.co.uk/Plastic-Sc...-Plastic-Jar-With-White-Screw-Lid/p-131-1464/

At water change, just tip into your tank. Job done.


----------



## Bert2oo1 (14 Feb 2017)

ian_m said:


> You are meant to add these amounts for 25 litres or RO (or your tap water) before using this water in your tank.
> 
> However I cant see why you can't mix up a concentrated solution and just add that to your tank. The limiting factor will be poor solubility of calcium sulphate (I think all the other salts are very soluble), which is only 2.4gr/1000ml. So you could mix up 1litre solutions and add that 1litre to each 25litre (or maybe 50litre) of water to raise the KH/GH a bit.
> 
> ...



Ahh I see. Well my tanks 220l so I could just dose the dry powders straight in after the change couldn't I? Seems like a lot of messing around to make smaller containers. Also I don't use buckets to fill the tank so mixing powders to buckets would be a pain (I use a power head with a hose and a bucket in the sink with the tap on) 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ian_m (14 Feb 2017)

Yes you can just dry dose no problem. Only reason for suggesting containers is less faffing around with small amounts of salts whilst changing water.

Just open prepared pot, pour in. Job done.


----------



## Bert2oo1 (14 Feb 2017)

ian_m said:


> Yes you can just dry dose no problem. Only reason for suggesting containers is less faffing around with small amounts of salts whilst changing water.
> 
> Just open prepared pot, pour in. Job done.


Good point! Thanks for the info 

Edit: can I use potassium sulphate as potassium bicarbonate? Do they both do the same thing? Or is it the bicarbonate part that gives you the 1kh in the booster? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305 (14 Feb 2017)

Hi all,





Bert2oo1 said:


> can I use potassium sulphate as potassium bicarbonate? Do they both do the same thing? Or is it bicarbonate part that gives you the 1kh in the booster?


It is only carbonates and bicarbonates that contribute to the dKH ("Karbonate" in German) hardness.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Bert2oo1 (15 Feb 2017)

Ok so I've ordered all my salts for the GH booster. 

So in my 220l aquarium I'd be dosing:
Barr GH booster at water change
2.2g kno3
0.5g of kh2po4
3 times per week. 
Do I need to dose any potassium sulphate?

0.2g of Aquagreen trace mix 
0.2ppm of seachem iron 
2 times per week

My lighting is at about 80 par and I'm moderately planted (fair room for HC carpet) 
30ppm of co2 (ph swing of 1.0 with 5 kh)

Does this sounds like a good start? 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gregoryilyuk (20 Feb 2017)

With such low kh, and high co2 you'll have a ph lower than 6, and that might be a problem, bacause some nutrients uptake could be blocket. So rise your kh to 3-4 by KHCO3, CaCO3. Also add some MgSO4 to balance calcium to Ca/Mg - 3/1  . Or just lower your Co2 and light. I think that Ph 6.5 - 6.8 is good for most of the plants.


----------



## Gregoryilyuk (20 Feb 2017)

you add 44mg MgSO4*7H2O per week, this add 20 mg/l Mg in your water + after some water changes it will be around 40 mg/l. That TOO MUCH!!! 2-3 mg/l of Mg per week is well enough. Ca/Mg must be around 3/1 - 4/1 . Or you add 11mg Mg per week at all???

PO4 1.5-2 mg/l, NO3 15-20 mg/l per week must be OK in your case as a starting dose

Use flowgrow calculator, it is one of the best


----------



## dw1305 (20 Feb 2017)

Hi all, 





Gregoryilyuk said:


> You add 44mg MgSO4*7H2O per week, this add 20 mg/l Mg in your water


It doesn't, "Epsom salts" are only about 10% Mg. 

The RMM of MgSO4.7H2O is 246.3, and the RAM of Mg is 24.3. Divide 24 by 246 and you get just under 10%.

From <"how much epsom salts...">





dw1305 said:


> (Mg) 24.3 + (S) 32 + O4 (16 x 4) = 56.3 + (64) = 120.3 + 7 x H2O - 7 x (1+1+16 = 18) = 126
> 126 + 120.3 = 246.3 24.3/246.3 = 9% Mg.


cheers Darrel


----------



## Gregoryilyuk (20 Feb 2017)

11.15g mgso4
4 times a week = 44 g MgSO4*7h2o

44g/200l  = 220 mg/l MgSO4*7h2o --> 22 mg/l Mg

22 mg/l Mg + 50% waterchange --> 44mg/l Mg

But I think he add 11.15g MgSo4 per week at all. That`s not much


----------



## Bert2oo1 (21 Feb 2017)

Thanks for the info guys. I'm only dosing 11.15g per week of mgso4*7h2o. I've added crushed coral to my filter to add calcium but I also have some caci2 I can add if needed. 

My current levels are GH 9 kh 5. I'm thinking that's pretty good considering my tap water is 1 and  1. 

Would you suggest adding more mgso4 or are my levels in a good spot? 

I don't think I'll need the GH booster now that I have the coral in the filter. 

Should I be dosing additional k or is the k from kno3 and kh2po4 enough? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dw1305 (21 Feb 2017)

Hi all,





Gregoryilyuk said:


> 44g/200l = 220 mg/l MgSO4*7h2o --> 22 mg/l Mg


Yes my mistake, I failed to read your post properly. I agree that if you added 44g of MgSO4.7H2O to 200 litres of tank water that would add 22ppm Mg.





Gregoryilyuk said:


> 22 mg/l Mg + 50% waterchange --> 44mg/l Mg


I still don't understand this bit. You've removed 1/2 of the magnesium in your water change, and added water with no magnesium, so your magnesium level must have halved, rather than doubled?





Bert2oo1 said:


> Would you suggest adding more mgso4 or are my levels in a good spot?
> 
> I don't think I'll need the GH booster now that I have the coral in the filter.
> 
> Should I be dosing additional k or is the k from kno3 and kh2po4 enough?


I'd probably leave things how they are for the while, I think you are good at the moment.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Bert2oo1 (21 Feb 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes my mistake, I failed to read your post properly. I agree that if you added 44g of MgSO4.7H2O to 200 litres of tank water that would add 22ppm Mg.I still don't understand this bit. You've removed 1/2 of the magnesium in your water change, and added water with no magnesium, so your magnesium level must have halved, rather than doubled?I'd probably leave things how they are for the while, I think you are good at the moment.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Awesome thanks heaps. Just trying to get the co2 right now. My drop checker is lime green but I'm double checking with ph and kh to see if I believe it. 

My checker is dark green at lights on so I've started it an extra hour before lights on (3 hours now) to see if I can keep it lime all day 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Gregoryilyuk (23 Feb 2017)

Start your co2 for 2 hours before your lights on. Turn it off before 1 hour the light is off. And watch your shrimps: when co2 is 30ppm, most of the shrimps are hiding under driftwoods and in the bushes, because they don`t like water with high co2.


----------

