# Bubble count keeps changing



## Saman (5 Feb 2022)

I had a suspicion that the bubble count was changing - without me touching the dial - which has just been confirmed today when the bubble count dropped to less than a second. It's a new bottle of Co2 so not a problem there and nothing else seems amiss on the regulator. I've turned it back up but clearly something isn't right and it's not sustainable checking it all the time. Does anyone know what might be going on here?


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## Saman (5 Feb 2022)

Just an update, I’d say within a few minutes the bubbles decrease to v low so it’s pretty bad now. I’ll call the manufacturer on Monday but it would great to get some insight in the meantime.


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## W@rlock (5 Feb 2022)

Same here however mine increases every hour or so. I have dual stage regulator with 1 gauge. It's like pressure builds up while valve is closed then slowly releases it. I've only experienced it with this regulator.




Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## plantnoobdude (5 Feb 2022)

haven't tried it yet, but consider one of these?








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## Yugang (5 Feb 2022)

It seems that for hobbyist-grade CO2 regulators (not talking much more expensive professional) the manufacturing tolerances may be on the limit for regulating the very low CO2 flows that we need. This could cause some variations from one to another (even same brand / type) or some variations/instabilities while in use. 

Suggestions regarding reliable quality hobby regulators would indeed be very helpful. I am on my third regulator now.


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

Have you checked for leaks....use some soapy water bubbles around all connections!


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

@GHNelson I have checked for leaks - but I used neat fairy liquid on the regulator. I was wondering  if I should put some water in to dilute it as it’s quite heavy neat. Going to try that today and paint it over.  

A leak doesn’t make sense tho - why would it suddenly get worse? I haven’t changed anything. As of yesterday evening the co2 has pretty much stopped passing through bubble counter. I’m having a panic as my tank is densely planted with EI dosing. I already have an algae bloom from a recent co2 issue - the washer went when I swapped bottles. I’d say the bubble counter issue started after I changed the bottles over actually. I finally got it all working with the new washer and then the next day I noticed no bubbles. I solved it by opening the canister fully (didn’t realise it wasn’t) but the bubble counter was never completely stable - I’d often find it either too fast or too slow. But now it just fizzles out and I have to turn the needle valve back up every few minutes. Is it better to just leave it all off for now whilst I figure it out? Someone suggested I drop my fertiliser by half too. Never had a problem with this regulator before - although I’ve had it less than a year… 

Be to great to know if there’s anything else - aside from hunting for a leak - I should try and do before calling co2 art tomorrow. I’m not very technical - in fact not at all - so this is not in my comfort zone.  Thanks so much


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## Yugang (6 Feb 2022)

Saman said:


> I’d say the bubble counter issue started after I changed the bottles over actually.


This happens to me too, and I have no idea what causes it. I am almost sure I do not touch the regulator dial while changing, and still I seem to get variations during the first days.  Sounds familiar, but a mystery to me as well



Saman said:


> I’m having a panic


While not having full understanding yet, just adjust your flow rate and calibrate the bubble/sec.


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

@Yugang thanks for your reply. I think my issue has gone up a  few levels though as the bubbles pretty much stop now after a few minutes. So if I turn the needle valve to get 3 per bubbles per second, for example, after maybe two minutes they drop to one bubble every 5 seconds or less. So I’m wondering if there’s any point in having the co2 on…

Also I changed the bottle a month ago. It was okay if a little unstable before - I just noticed the odd variation in the bubble counter that I could correct - and now it’s pretty bad and my drop checker is blue.


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## Yugang (6 Feb 2022)

Saman said:


> @Yugang thanks for your reply. I think my issue has gone up a  few levels though as the bubbles pretty much stop now after a few minutes. So if I turn the needle valve to get 3 per bubbles per second, for example, after maybe two minutes they drop to one bubble every 5 seconds or less. So I’m wondering if there’s any point in having the co2 on…
> 
> Also I changed the bottle a month ago. It was okay if a little unstable before - I just noticed the odd variation in the bubble counter that I could correct - and now it’s pretty bad and my drop checker is blue.


That seems like a more serious defect, and my remarks have then probably not been very helpful for you to solve it. Sorry for that.


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

@Yugang don’t apologise- thank you for taking the time to try and help, really appreciate it.


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## Yugang (6 Feb 2022)

Until you have a proper solution for your regulator, you may want to take your CO2 completely off, and cut light back by at least 50%. Some other UKAPS members are more experienced in rescue operations than I, sure they will help you with follow up.


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Thank you - I’ll aim to cut the light by 50% and the fertiliser too. Hopefully someone can help me work this all out. Thanks again


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

Saman said:


> I was wondering if I should put some water in to dilute it as it’s quite heavy neat. Going to try that today and paint it over.



Yes, use diluted washing up liquid!
What diffuser are you using?
Does the working pressure dial move?
What you could try is, increase the working pressure to 3 bar!
Then open the needle valve till you have a good stream of bubbles in the counter then reduce to the  required  bubble rate!
hoggie


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Thank you - I’ll wipe it down and use diluted. It’s co2 art pro se. Working pressure is 30 ppi - what would 3 bar look like? Turning the needle valve and getting a good stream is not a problem - it just doesn’t stay and fizzles out. So I know the gas is going in fine - it’s just not staying…


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## PARAGUAY (6 Feb 2022)

Yugang said:


> It seems that for hobbyist-grade CO2 regulators (not talking much more expensive professional) the manufacturing tolerances may be on the limit for regulating the very low CO2 flows that we need. This could cause some variations from one to another (even same brand / type) or some variations/instabilities while in use.
> 
> Suggestions regarding reliable quality hobby regulators would indeed be very helpful. I am on my third regulator now.


Well DD did a good budget priced freshwater set ,still got mine after several years, made for 600g non reusable bottles . Great for the smaller medium aquariums but like all manafactuers (seem to do in lighting) discontinued. DD guess do probably mostly business on the saltwater aquarium side as the owners both have lavish marine set ups in their own homes. Probably CO2 Art would be my go to for a regulator set all on all. Good back up IME


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

Saman said:


> Thank you - I’ll wipe it down and use diluted. It’s co2 art pro se. Working pressure is 30 ppi - what would 3 bar look like? Turning the needle valve and getting a good stream is not a problem - it just doesn’t stay and fizzles out. So I know the gas is going in fine - it’s just not staying…


30 ppi = about 2 bar!
What diffuser are you using?


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

It’s an in-line diffuser. So move to 40ppi?


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

That needs about 2.5 bar minimum increase to 45 ppi.


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Here’s the set-up


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

Switch on the solenoid when adjusting!


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Ok I’ll move the ppi up and check for leaks and report back. Thanks so much for your help.


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Done!


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

I’ve sprayed soapy water over all connections and no bubbles. Right now the bubble counter is working - but I’ll see what happens over the day. Hopefully the adjustment to the ppi is the answer


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

Good stuff!
If you add a check valve just before the in-line diffuser this will help stop water running into the Co2 tubing plus it helps to keep the pressure up in the in-line diffuser!


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

I’ll get one - thank you - was wondering about that. After 5 mins bubbles still okay. Thanks again for taking the time to help me - especially on a Sunday morning!


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## GHNelson (6 Feb 2022)

No worries!
Were here to help when possible.
Cheers!


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## Yugang (6 Feb 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Were here to help when possible.


That's what I like about UKAPS   Thank you @GHNelson


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## Saman (6 Feb 2022)

Pleased to report the bubbles have been consistent today, hopefully they will stay that way. Thanks again @GHNelson!


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## Saman (7 Feb 2022)

Unfortunately @GHNelson I don't think the issue is fixed. The bubble count has slowed this morning and I've just had increase it. It's definitely not dropping as it did before but it's not staying at the same rate. It's very strange as yesterday the needle valve seemed to be very sensitive after adjusting the working pressure and today it's not. Or maybe I've imagined that! I've found a bottle of gas leak spray and literally sprayed everything and can't see any leaks but if I listen closely there is a very tiny hissing noise coming from around the solenoid. It may  of course have been there when it was fine. Is there anything else I can try at this point? Thank you!


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## GHNelson (7 Feb 2022)

Hi 
Have you sprayed around the actually Diffuser its self with gas leak?
hoggie


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## mrhoyo (7 Feb 2022)

I'm not saying this will fix anything but it seems to have worked with mine:
Working pressure kept dropping which reduced bubble count
CO2Art say to remove the sticker from the back of the regulator, undo the screw and clean inside it. Mine had no dirt in so I fastened everything back up and problem solved. For a day.
I repeated this 3 or 4 times until I tried not quite fastening the nut as tight as it will go and everything has worked fine for a week or two.


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## Saman (8 Feb 2022)

@GHNelson yes I sprayed it all. The good news is the bubbles are okay today though. It's very weird. The check valve just arrive today so I'll fit that. Just so I'm clear - it's going in-between the diffuser and bubble counter as you say above. Should I attach it v close to the diffuser - so leave maybe just a couple of centimetres on the tubing and then attach? Sorry I'm not very good at this stuff and there's no instructions with it!


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## Saman (8 Feb 2022)

@mrhoyo that's interesting, thanks. Worth a try!


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## GHNelson (8 Feb 2022)

Yes, about 4 inches before the in line diffuser!


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## Saman (9 Feb 2022)

Thank you!


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