# Spotless Water



## HiNtZ (23 Jan 2019)

Anyone a member (uk)?


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## DutchMuch (24 Jan 2019)

wait im confused here...


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## Tim Harrison (24 Jan 2019)

Me too  Not really sure what you mean, but if you mean are there any members from the UK  check this out...


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## zozo (24 Jan 2019)

Me also never seen water with spots too..


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## Edvet (24 Jan 2019)

guessing: https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/


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## DutchMuch (24 Jan 2019)

Edvet said:


> guessing: https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/


interesting, wonder why ;o


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## HiNtZ (24 Jan 2019)

Edvet is spot on, I didn't want to come in with my first post looking like I was an affiliate or advertising for them.

I joined up earlier in the week and went to get my first batch. I'm loving the convenience of it being near my house and open 24/7/365.

A few reefer friends of mine use it, while others are still a bit dubious. I figured whatever it is, it's going to be better than what's coming out of my tap.


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## Edward Shave (24 Jan 2019)

Just clicked..! My window cleaner knocked on the door a year or so back to explain he would be leaving the windows wet from now on as he was now using "special water" which dried by itself without leaving spots. Guess it's RO water but at 3p per litre is it competitive?


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## tayloss (24 Jan 2019)

Interesting find... I have one opening up near me, so is it cheaper than an RO machine long term? Good for that time you've run out and need to use some in a hurry?


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## ian_m (24 Jan 2019)

1. Don't really need RO water with planted tanks, though might if you have specialist livestock requirements.

2. They don't test the RO water (see their FAQ) so recommend you test it before aquatic use.


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## dw1305 (24 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





ian_m said:


> They don't test the RO water (see their FAQ) so recommend you test it before aquatic use.


Interesting, we need @HiNtZ  to dip the conductivity meter into it every-time he buys a batch. 

My guess would be that the conductivity will be fairly low (less than 30 microS?) or they would begin to run into problems with their more normal clientele. 

cheers Darrel


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## jameson_uk (24 Jan 2019)

Ummmm currently using a couple of litres of deionised water a week at £1 a pop from Tesco in my shrimp tank so not exactly pleased about the amount of plastic I am using.

Nearest LFS that sells RO is a good 20 minute drive so cheaper, closer site that means no extra plastic does sound useful.

Just wondering about the mechanics as although they say you can just get 1 litre, I am guessing the units have fairly big nozzles so would need a container with a reasonable size opening?


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## HiNtZ (24 Jan 2019)

Edward Shave said:


> Just clicked..! My window cleaner knocked on the door a year or so back to explain he would be leaving the windows wet from now on as he was now using "special water" which dried by itself without leaving spots. Guess it's RO water but at 3p per litre is it competitive?



It's cheaper than my LFS - £10 for 75L

Here it is £2.70 includin vat for 75L (prices apparently vary by location)



tayloss said:


> Interesting find... I have one opening up near me, so is it cheaper than an RO machine long term? Good for that time you've run out and need to use some in a hurry?



In short - no. I spend about £50 a year on resin and filters and I'm not on a meter. It's a PITA and I'm looking at convenience over cost primarily.



ian_m said:


> 1. Don't really need RO water with planted tanks, though might if you have specialist livestock requirements.
> 
> 2. They don't test the RO water (see their FAQ) so recommend you test it before aquatic use.



1: That wasn't what was being discussed - sometimes people like to do things that seem unnecessary to others. It's a personal choice.

2: This is true - they also stated they are considering further automated testing of the water on site depending on how much interest is shown from the aquatic sector.



dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Interesting, we need @HiNtZ  to dip the conductivity meter into it every-time he buys a batch.
> 
> My guess would be that the conductivity will be fairly low (less than 30 microS?) or they would begin to run into problems with their more normal clientele.
> 
> cheers Darrel



There is actually a TDS meter displayed on the screen before you purchase. Has always read 0.0. That being said, conductivity is pretty straight forward isn't it? How are they going to test the rest like they are thinking.... like the N P and metals?? At least, accurately? My TDS pen just starts at zero, no decimal measurement and it's come back 0 the last three batches.



jameson_uk said:


> Ummmm currently using a couple of litres of deionised water a week at £1 a pop from Tesco in my shrimp tank so not exactly pleased about the amount of plastic I am using.
> 
> Nearest LFS that sells RO is a good 20 minute drive so cheaper, closer site that means no extra plastic does sound useful.
> 
> Just wondering about the mechanics as although they say you can just get 1 litre, I am guessing the units have fairly big nozzles so would need a container with a reasonable size opening?



To be fair, I think with the small amount you require it would still be feasible. You don't actually need an account - you can just go to the machine with say a 10 litre drum, stick your debit card in, do your pin and fill up. Then they will charge your card for the amount you used.

I'm sure I saw 2 litre minimum delivery somewhere, maybe I'm confusing the petrol pumps..... you can still get a litre out of them anyway, I think it's more to do with them not being able to guarantee exact measurements of fluid under that amount.

The nozzle is quite narrow. Not sure if it's pop bottle narrow..... will check next time. It does have auto cut off like the petrol pumps which is handy.

I'm right there with you on the plastic mate - I despise it. The irony of 90% of fish products being sold in single use plastic containers cuts me deep. The industry is way behind on this one.


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## HiNtZ (24 Jan 2019)

Double post, but I will use this opportunity to say that the last three batches haven't killed my fish.

I figure that machine is on the same water main as me since it is only few hundred yards away, so what's the worst the water will be? Same as my tap? I'm pretty confident if it's readin 0.0 TDS, there isn't much else in there, either.

p.s if anyone is going to sign up, have a chat among yourself to take advantage of the recommend a friend. I've got 1000 litres of RO for free (555 for signing up and £25 worth for recommending).


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## dw1305 (25 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





HiNtZ said:


> That being said, conductivity is pretty straight forward isn't it? How are they going to test the rest like they are thinking.... like the N P and metals?? At least, accurately?


Yes, conductivity (TDS) is a measure of all ions, so you don't need to measure anything else when it is a low value, there can't be many ions of any description. 





HiNtZ said:


> There is actually a TDS meter displayed on the screen before you purchase. Has always read 0.0.


It is probably the display from the DI unit, the lab. units display a conductivity value in real time. 





HiNtZ said:


> My TDS pen just starts at zero, no decimal measurement and it's come back 0 the last three batches.


You can get readings from below 0 microS, a medical lab. grade <"ultra-pure unit"> would give you a <"resistance value in ohms">.

This is a good summary document for the measurement of <"conductivity">, or from the <"Lenntech web site">.

cheers Darrel


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## tayloss (25 Jan 2019)

HiNtZ said:


> In short - no. I spend about £50 a year on resin and filters and I'm not on a meter. It's a PITA and I'm looking at convenience over cost primarily.


That's the angle i'd be looking at it as I think its about that for replacing resin etc.. But thats the point.. out of RO, need water now...!


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## HiNtZ (25 Jan 2019)

tayloss said:


> That's the angle i'd be looking at it as I think its about that for replacing resin etc.. But thats the point.. out of RO, need water now...!



You can have the best of both worlds..... keep going as you are, and if you need it just pop down the machine with a debit card and fill up on the spot.


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## jameson_uk (26 Jan 2019)

Slightly OT but is it ok to let this water stand for a long time?  Just thinking that a 25l container would last quite a few months


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## tayloss (26 Jan 2019)

HiNtZ said:


> You can have the best of both worlds..... keep going as you are, and if you need it just pop down the machine with a debit card and fill up on the spot.


It's worth trying once my one opens in Fareham... Not sure many people test RO before use even when making their own supply? As long as the TDS is 0, its fine for me


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## HiNtZ (26 Jan 2019)

jameson_uk said:


> Slightly OT but is it ok to let this water stand for a long time?  Just thinking that a 25l container would last quite a few months



Not at all - good question. I've left RO in the dark for over a month with the lid off and it's been fine. You may just want to aerate it a bit before using it and give it a sniff. Other than that, never had problems. 



tayloss said:


> It's worth trying once my one opens in Fareham... Not sure many people test RO before use even when making their own supply? As long as the TDS is 0, its fine for me



With my home made RO I used to test just TDS. Quick and easy with the pen.


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## tayloss (26 Jan 2019)

HiNtZ said:


> With my home made RO I used to test just TDS. Quick and easy with the pen.


Exactly, that’s all i do, so can’t imagine why any other testing is needed 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sciencefiction (27 Jan 2019)

jameson_uk said:


> Slightly OT but is it ok to let this water stand for a long time?  Just thinking that a 25l container would last quite a few months



I think that any water that is left to stand for a period of time will eventually start going through a nitrogen cycle so its a good way to test for ammonia and nitrite before re-using if long enough period has passed from filling the container. I'd also trust the tap water quality control more than some "water supply" place. These days even bottled drinking water has been found to be contaminated.


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## Barbara Turner (27 Jan 2019)

jameson_uk said:


> Slightly OT but is it ok to let this water stand for a long time? Just thinking that a 25l container would last quite a few months



It should fine if you store it in a black container or in the dark, I use to have a large container that always full of RO near a window, after my weekly water change I use to fill it back up. I was slightly surpised as it built up a layer of diatom algae , then started to go slightly green. 

I guess the filter wasn't as good as I thought.


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## dw1305 (27 Jan 2019)

Hi all,





sciencefiction said:


> I think that any water that is left to stand for a period of time will eventually start going through a nitrogen cycle


RO won't, it doesn't have any nutrients so will just stay the same, potentially for all of eternity. It will absorb gases until it equilibriates with atmospheric levels, but that is it.





Barbara Turner said:


> I use to have a large container that always full of RO near a window, after my weekly water change I use to fill it back up. I was slightly surpised as it built up a layer of diatom algae , then started to go slightly green. I guess the filter wasn't as good as I thought.


Yes <"growth of algae"> is a good indication that your RO unit need servicing.

We used <"to get it with the distillation units">, but we don't get it with the <"Elga Veolia DI units"> we use now.

cheers Darrel


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## HiNtZ (28 Jan 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,RO won't, it doesn't have any nutrients so will just stay the same, potentially for all of eternity. It will absorb gases until it equilibriates with atmospheric levels, but that is it.Yes <"growth of algae"> is a good indication that your RO unit need servicing.
> 
> We used <"to get it with the distillation units">, but we don't get it with the <"Elga Veolia DI units"> we use now.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Reminds me of a documentary I saw about those pure water underwater caves in Africa - the same water from 10,000 years ago and blind albino catfish as inhabitants (among many others). It's the clearest water I've ever seen.


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## ian_m (28 Jan 2019)

Things about RO water and RO water generation.....

1. An RO unit IS NOT guaranteed to produce 100% RO water, even if all membranes, pre-filters and DI resins are 100% tip-top, which is why you should always test RO before use. Testing using a TDS pen is fine, better is ammonia and/or free chlorine testing.
2. Home RO generation wastes water, typically 4:1, if lucky, waste water to RO water. ie 4 litres waste to 1 litre RO. Most will be 10:1 - 6:1 waste to RO. The higher the incoming water pressure the less waste produced, use of booster pumps improves efficiency.
3. Commercial RO generation uses much much higher pressure on the membranes and can achieve 90% or more efficiency, as well as recovering a large % of the energy put in in pressurising the water.
4. For tap water, a pre-filter must be used remove chlorine as chlorine will attack the membrane. If chloramine is present in your tap water a specialist pre-filter must be used.
5. If flow rate is too high, the pre-filter may not be able to remove all the chlorine and chlorine will find its way into the RO water output. (and damage membrane).
6. If flow rate is too high or incorrect pre-filter used with chloramine in tap water, the chloramine will get broken down to chlorine and ammonia and not be filtered out. The ammonia will find its way into the RO water output. (and damage membrane).
7. RO water should be stored in sealed opaque container. RO water will absorb carbon dioxide from the air and as water is such a good solvent will dissolve out chemicals from the storage container and provided enough nutrients for algae & bacteria to grow. RO should really be used as soon as made.


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