# how to clean filter media



## Andy Dunning (30 Jul 2013)

How should I clean my filter sponges and bio media. I ask this as I here some people say rinse them in your tank water that youve taken out when doing a water change, some say not to do that and others say about in a bucket of declhorinated water. I used to just go for the first choice but wanted some opions please!!!


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## ceg4048 (30 Jul 2013)

Use whatever method that you think you will have the energy (and desire) to continue doing.

There is an axiom (by plantbrain) which goes something like:
The easier it is to do something, the more likely you will continue to do it.

Some people are paranoid that the water's chlorine/chloramine levels will damage the bacterial population beyond repair. That's mostly mythology. But if you feel that way and if you are not bothered by the extra effort to use tank water or to dechlorinate tap water, then use either of those methods.

There are some procedures regarding tank maintenance that have a huge impact, and there are some things that have only a minor impact. So the things that have a huge impact are worth doing, even if the effort and energy required are also huge. Cleaning the tank of organic waste and doing large and frequent water changes are vital because they have a huge impact on plant health and fish health. I dislike doing water changes more than any other procedure in the hobby, yet I do more massive and frequent water changes than anybody I know, and the results in my tanks are clear.

Washing the filter media with special procedures designed to minimize contact with chlorinated water, especially in a planted tank, has only a very minor impact. You destroy as many bacteria with the tap water as you do washing the filter media in the first place. So even if you use tank water or dechlorinated water the fact that you are rinsing the media means that many millions of bacteria will be mechanically dislodged and flushed away. However, the vast majority of the bacteria are within the pores of the media and are adhering to the surface. Clean healthy plants immediately remove any small increase in ammonia due to any marginally lower population of bacteria and they use the ammonia to produce and release higher levels of Oxygen back into the water which, by the way, these bacteria need much more than they need ammonia. Using tank water requires and extra step or two and is tedious, so there is a stronger likelihood that you will do media cleaning less frequently or less consistently if it becomes tedious to find a container, transfer water, carefully rinse and so on and so forth. It's a lot easier to grab the filter bucket and throw water at it.

So, if it gives you peace of mind to use special water to clean your media, then do that and be at ease. If you are prone to laziness then just open your tap, rinse away and get on with your maintenance.

Cheers,


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## mafoo (30 Jul 2013)

When i change my tank water i siphon it into a bucket and then use that to wash my filter media in, then pour it down the bog or on the garden.


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## oldbloke (30 Jul 2013)

I put my old tank water into my daphnia farm.

I'm hoping for an eu subsidy.


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## mafoo (31 Jul 2013)

oldbloke said:


> I put my old tank water into my daphnia farm.
> 
> I'm hoping for an eu subsidy.


Only if you're french I'm afraid.


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## Ady34 (31 Jul 2013)

ceg4048......mythbuster!


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## oldbloke (31 Jul 2013)

mafoo said:


> Only if you're french I'm afraid.


 

I think they do alright over here too.....


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## sciencefiction (31 Jul 2013)

Well, from experience I know you aren't guaranteed anything by cleaning the media in tank or dechlorinated water. Depending on the age of the filter and whether it's the sole filter,  by overcleaning it you may happen to cause an ammonia spike, or the minimum make your fish uncomfortable and irritated for a couple of days. My cories start flicking when I overdo the cleaning part all at once, despite using tank water.
On another hand, filling up 50% of removed water in a cherry shrimp/red rili tank with 3 internal filters, pouring directly from the tap and dechlorinating after causes no harm to either shrimp or filters, although I guess they get exposed to that just for some minutes until the tank is filled up.
This probably depends on the source water. Around here water is well regulated and doesn't contain much chlorine. In the US is different, as they treat their water with chloramines as well, and also happen to have high amounts of ammonia too in tap water.


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## ceg4048 (1 Aug 2013)

Flicking is not a symptom of ammonia toxicity, therefore this cannot be the syndrome. There must be something else associated with your maintenance procedure. There really is very little credence to the concept of "overcleaning". On the contrary, a lot more problems are caused in this hobby by not cleaning enough.

Instead of accepting the hysteria promulgated in The Matrix, it would be better to study the data offered by people who actually get paid to research the subject. Free swimming bacteria, i.e. bacteria in the water column are affected by the toxicity of chlorine/chloramine, however, as I mentioned, the vast majority of your filter bacteria are within the pores and convoluted surface of the filter media. Isn't that why people buy those high surface area media such as sintered glass, carbon and so forth? The massive surface area offered by the media also protects the bacteria against toxicity. Also, the toxicity is a result of the prolonged exposure, so while free swimming bacteria can be eradicated within minutes of high concentration disinfectant, the adsorbed bacteria would require much more time to be affected by the same level of disinfectant. When you wash the media, the exposure time is very short. The impact therefore is minimal, regardless of what type of water is used. The protection offered by the biofilm and pore surfaces of media is very efficient against chlorine but less so against chloramine.

Have a read of Inactivation of biofilm bacteria. 

Cheers,


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## sciencefiction (1 Aug 2013)

I appreciate your opinion Ceg. You are a very knowledgeable guy but your "Matrix" comparison doesn't always apply.



> Flicking is not a symptom of ammonia toxicity, therefore this cannot be the syndrome. There must be something else associated with your maintenance procedure. There really is very little credence to the concept of "overcleaning". On the contrary, a lot more problems are caused in this hobby by not cleaning enough.


 
I am really glad you are so confident in what you are saying. I guess that is based on years of observation and experience. But so is mine, and you certainly haven't observed my maintenance procedures to claim I was doing something wrong because it suits your view.

Here is my experience.
The corys I am talking about have been with me for over 2 years and still haven't been sick. But telling me that my corys flicking after good filter maintenance was caused by some other "syndrom", then please elaborate what it was because it happened each time I washed the media in tank water till there was no more gunk. Ammonia is an irritant as well and irritants in water can cause flicking. Another reason of course can be parasites but that obviously was not the case because i stopped overcleaning(cleaning all media/filters at the same time) and the flicking stopped. Now you are going to tell me it was something in the replaced water causing them to flick. Please note that this did not happen when I did a normal water change, but when the filters were cleaned.
I've overcleaned filters and caused a spike at least 3 times on different tanks. I guess you can blame that on my maintenance procedure of taking the media out and cleaning it well in a bucket of tank water, then putting it back.
This experience made me have multiple filters on each tank so my fish never suffer this again.




> On the contrary, a lot more problems are caused in this hobby by not cleaning enough


 

Yes, of course, there's a balance and too much of either is no good. But why don't all of us just do "spring cleaning" on our tanks and then we talk about the side effects.
You are also basing your experience on heavily planted tanks I presume, stocked with a group of tiny shoalers.



> There really is very little credence to the concept of "overcleaning".


 

Yes, there should be more bells about that, because one of the most common problem by "new" fish keepers is overcleaning their tanks, taking substrate out and washing it, changing media to new shiny ones because the old one looks gross, totally excited of getting their water sparkle clean again. Then come back and ask why did their fish start dying, or even why they can't get rid of that brown algae for months.


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## ceg4048 (1 Aug 2013)

Yes, I am basing the response on a planted tank.

I do 90% cleaning, wash the gravel and I don't have these problems.

New fish keepers have all sorts of problems, much of which is the fact that they do NOT clean the tanks enough. The number of people hat go "over the top" with cleaning pales in comparison the the many other mistakes that inexperienced people make. In fact, by an overwhelming margin, overfeeding while not cleaning is the biggest cause of fatalities.

We really do not know, in any particular case what other things the newbies are doing, and so it's very easy to draw a conclusion that cleaning the tank or gravel directly results in fatalities. We don't know exactly what you are doing either. How did you know that there was a spike in NH3? Is the data a result of a test kit? Was the pH higher than 7? If the pH is low then the NH3/NH4 equilibrium shifts to the much less toxic NH4. How soon after the media wash did the symptoms appear? The prime area of attack for NH3 is the gill tissue, and that would be permanent damage. The symptoms would be more akin to CO2 poisoning, i.e. gasping at the surface, inflamed gills and so forth. It would definitely not be flicking.

As you noted, there could have been a parasitic issue. We really don't know. As I mentioned, and as clearly indicated in the article washing your media cannot dislodge the majority of the microrganisms in the filter media. You really don't need to be gentle. I use a garden hose and spray the removable trays  out on the lawn, then  I reassemble. No problems at all.

To de-bunk this myth I even assumed that my water supply was not chlorinated, so I would give a quick dunk of the trays full of media in a chlorinated swimming pool, then rinse with tap.

I've kept sensitive fish such as discus and dwarf chiclids while cleaning the tank meticulously without any issues. My cleaning routine continued even with fry in the tank.

If the tank has fundamental problems then there are lots of things that can push it over the edge, both directly and indirectly. People dose urea and ammonium salts, which produce a heck of a lot more ammonium than what we can expect to see from killing small amounts of media bacteria. So what I'm saying is that there is some other factor at play.

Cheers,


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## sciencefiction (1 Aug 2013)

> Yes, I am basing the response on a planted tank.


 
The possible combination of plants and fish in such tanks vary, so your statement is only partially true and can be very much incorrect in some other scenarios.



> I do 90% cleaning, wash the gravel and I don't have these problems.


 
Seriously? To be more specific for the benefits of others, is there some other substrate you put under that gravel that isn't washed at the same time?



> New fish keepers have all sorts of problems, much of which is the fact that they do NOT clean the tanks enough. The number of people hat go "over the top" with cleaning pales in comparison the the many other mistakes that inexperienced people make.


 
Where are you drawing your data from? It's like you have a database of each fish keeper and you've evaluated all data to come to this conclusion. For every of your examples that not cleaning enough causes all sorts of problems, I can give you an example/thread somewhere when doing the overcleaning caused a problem. But like you said yourself, one can not know all the other factors that may have been in play.



> In fact, by an overwhelming margin, overfeeding while not cleaning is the biggest cause of fatalities


Yes, I agree. But on a side note if you want to see a stressed and underfed fish then just google common plecos in youtube. You'll hardly see a healthy looking one despite some of them being kept in proper sized tanks.





> We don't know exactly what you are doing either. How did you know that there was a spike in NH3? Is the data a result of a test kit?Was the pH higher than 7


 
What are you trying to imply? I was doing nothing fancy besides cleaning my filter the previous day. By the next day, in different cases there were different symptoms to tell me something was wrong, mostly the fish behaviour. Flicking was one of the most noticeable ones but the water smelling of chemicals happened too. Fish getting very quiet and disinterested is another. That's what made me test the water. I use API/Nutrafin or JBL liquid test kits. And yes, ph is 7.4.



> How soon after the media wash did the symptoms appear?


 
Within 24hrs.



> The prime area of attack for NH3 is the gill tissue, and that would be permanent damage. The symptoms would be more akin to CO2 poisoning, i.e. gasping at the surface, inflamed gills and so forth. It would definitely not be flicking.


 
By the way, on what levels of toxic ammonia are you basing your conclusions on? Are you talking about high nitrites instead by any chance? I can dig up scientific data up that shows some certain levels of ammonia can very well be tolerated without much consequences. Fish can also recover from that "permanent damage" you mention above in many cases if taken care of. As for the symptoms you describe, I presume you are talking about some really toxic levels for longer periods of time. I am talking about trace levels of ammonia. In the worst scenario I had, about two years ago after I cleaned the sole filter in a tank, by the next day the fins of my cories had disintegrated. The water smelled like ammonia which was the initial reason that made me look at the tank. And still no fish gasped at the surface, but they were rather looking like stoned, not doing much. These cories are perfectly healthy and alive today.




> As you noted, there could have been a parasitic issue. We really don't know.


 
You are speculating here. There was no parasitic issue because I still have got those fish 2 years after and they've never seen or sniffed medication.



> As I mentioned, and as clearly indicated in the article washing your media cannot dislodge the majority of the microrganisms in the filter media.


 
Of course it can't dislodge the majority of them. Otherwise we won't be able to clean the filters at all.



> I use a garden hose and spray the removable trays out on the lawn, then I reassemble. No problems at all.


 
I'd presume you are talking about a heavily planted tank with little bioload. Two days ago I also cleaned the media under the tap water too without any consequences but the tank is heavily planted and has 3 external filters on. I cleaned just one of them. But that was not the case when I had just one filter on a semi planted tank for example. And in unplanted tank one has to be very cautious.



> I've kept sensitive fish such as discus and dwarf chiclids while cleaning the tank meticulously without any issues. My cleaning routine continued even with fry in the tank.


 
What's so sensitive about discus besides when raising them? Ottos or shrimp will kick the bucket before them and mine aren't dying either.



> If the tank has fundamental problems then there are lots of things that can push it over the edge, both directly and indirectly.


 
Correct. Then why do your tanks need to be cleaned so meticulously to actually function properly? This type of setup doesn't sound to me very practical.


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## jacaranda (7 Aug 2013)

Why do some people have such a hard time accepting that keeping a tank clean is the best route to take? The mind boggles.


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## sciencefiction (7 Aug 2013)

jacaranda said:


> Why do some people have such a hard time accepting that keeping a tank clean is the best route to take? The mind boggles.


 
Could you please define "a clean tank" in your sentence?
Clean tank may mean one that has been soaked in baby safe bleach, or it may mean a tank in which the poop and waste is siphoned regularly and water changes done, etc..

But when we talk about a fish tank in which your rely on a balance of microorganisms to make the enviroment non toxic to the inhabitants, and that applies to planted tanks too because without this microfauna you can't even have a healthy substrate, then why would one want to wipe them "clean" every so often?


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## sciencefiction (6 Sep 2013)

> I do 90% cleaning, wash the gravel and I don't have these problems.


 
@ceg4048
I've been thinking but have been too lazy to find the thread again and ask you?  But when you state the above, do you take into consideration that in a planted CO2 injected tank with a low Ph value for the most part, depending on temperature and other conditions,  most of the ammonia is in NH4 form which is non-toxic to the fish, so it's highly unlikely that you can cause a toxicity problem in such a tank by washing the media well and even removing it completely if it's a planted tank,  compared to a low tech tank with a higher ph and especially if it's warm tank with high temps depending on the fish requirements, and even worse if it's non-planted and filter media is the only means of resolving ammonia toxicity.


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## jacaranda (6 Sep 2013)

sciencefiction said:


> Could you please define "a clean tank" in your sentence?
> Clean tank may mean one that has been soaked in baby safe bleach, or it may mean a tank in which the poop and waste is siphoned regularly and water changes done, etc..
> 
> But when we talk about a fish tank in which your rely on a balance of microorganisms to make the enviroment non toxic to the inhabitants, and that applies to planted tanks too because without this microfauna you can't even have a healthy substrate, then why would one want to wipe them "clean" every so often?


 
Sorry I forgot to reply, but

You know EXACTLY what I mean I don't need to define anything, you are being pedantic for no good reason


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## ceg4048 (6 Sep 2013)

sciencefiction said:


> I've been thinking but have been too lazy to find the thread again and ask you? But when you state the above, do you take into consideration that in a planted CO2 injected tank with a low Ph value for the most part, depending on temperature and other conditions, most of the ammonia is in NH4 form which is non-toxic to the fish, so it's highly unlikely that you can cause a toxicity problem in such a tank by washing the media well and even removing it completely if it's a planted tank, compared to a low tech tank with a higher ph and especially if it's warm tank with high temps depending on the fish requirements, and even worse if it's non-planted and filter media is the only means of resolving ammonia toxicity.


Again , I think you are missing the key issue that there are other ramifications than whether NH4 is toxic or not. Dirty tanks are defined by their organic waste content. Detritus in the substrate builds up and when it decays the NH4 is converted by the Nitrifying bacteria. In order to Nitrify these bacteria require Oxygen. So Oxygen is pulled from the water column to feed the bacteria, thus stealing it from the fish. That's why people's tanks are a mess. That's why they experience so much die off and weird diseases, because their fish are exposed to hypoxia. This weakens them and makes them susceptible to all manner of pathogens. You are not doing yourself any favors by being afraid to keep your tank as spotlessly clean as possible. A loss of Oxygen also reduces the ability of all other aerobic bacteria, which are what we consider "good" bacteria which also have a symbiotic relationship. Some of these microorganisms have an impact on the pathogen population. Their metabolic processes produce less toxic waste compared to anerobic bacteria. So too much dirt stifles the growth and well being of the very microorganism that you are so concerned about. Far from removing and destroying their population, keeping the tank clean and vacuumed supports their population.

Putting food in your tank does far more damage than cleaning gravel or changing 90% of water.

Cheers,


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## sciencefiction (7 Sep 2013)

> I think you are missing the key issue that there are other ramifications than whether NH4 is toxic or not.


 
Yes, there are other reasons why washing the media has to be done, but nothing of what you are saying proves it has to be done weekly or even bi-weekly to actually benefit the inhabitants or the plants.  It all depends on the tank. Maybe your tank's media gets clogged very easily. Besides that, my previous comment was in regards maybe why you don't experience ammonia toxicity after overcleaning your tank and I do. My examples were in low tech tanks with Ph of 7.4 and for the most part high enough temps. Yours I presume are in low Ph based on at least CO2 injection or possibly even soft water so hardly any ammonia rise is going to be in NH3 form.



And generally, do you think that a tank not spotlessly cleaned each week, without thoroughly washing the filters causes oxygen deprivation/hypoxia and chronic fish deaths or envorimental diseases ?  In your opinion my fish have been dying and or are sick, some of them for years although still alive and over their live expectancy? Experience does not correlate with what you are saying.
My point was that overcleaning is as bad as not cleaning. After some time with experience one would know how often and how much to clean their particular tank's filters.



jacaranda said:


> Sorry I forgot to reply, but
> 
> You know EXACTLY what I mean I don't need to define anything, you are being pedantic for no good reason


 
You are being pedantic with your tank too.


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## Ady34 (7 Sep 2013)

Ok, I think the points have been made.
Lets try to keep on topic and adult about this. There's no harm in keeping a clean tank, only good will come of it. Each bio load is different, plant metabolism etc etc so yes some tanks will succeed without as regular a maintenance routine, however getting into the habit of doing regular cleaning means your less likely to run into trouble long term, or if for example you have to skip a week.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Tim Harrison (7 Sep 2013)

I rinse mine under a tepid mixer tap...my filter media that is......
...nothings died - yet...


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## 121212 (8 Sep 2013)

Do not wash filter media with tap water (chlorine kills beneficial bacteria). Use tank water when doing water change.


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## dw1305 (8 Sep 2013)

Hi all,
I've always washed my sponges etc. in tank water, and I'd always wondered whether it made a difference. A couple of years ago I asked a colleague (who is a microbiologist) what he thought, and he was pretty sure that it wouldn't make any difference what water you washed them in. Since then I've just washed them under the tap without any adverse effect. 

Personally I keep fairly mulmy tanks, but I'm very keen on retaining high water quality and most importantly high levels of oxygenation. They may seem to be totally conflicting aims, but they aren't necessarily. If you have a look through Colin Dunlop's article <http://www.seriouslyfish.com/all-the-leaves-are-brown/> it gives a bit more back-ground. Basically I'm interested in both reducing BOD and producing a complex plant and micro-organism rich environment

This is one of my favourite tanks, not mine, but an _Apistogramma_ tank kept by "Ruki" a very successful Polish cichlid breeder.





cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (9 Sep 2013)

Hi all,


121212 said:


> Do not wash filter media with tap water (chlorine kills beneficial bacteria).


 No, honestly it doesn't. I think a lot of these ideas started in the USA where the supply is more heavily chlorinated. In a planted tank a lot of the nitrifying bacteria are in the substrate in the zone around plant roots ("rhizosphere") etc.

If you are worried about sterilising your filter media with tap water, my suggestion would be just to reserve a small amount of filter mulm, and after a final rinse the media in tank water etc just pour the mulm back into the filter, or onto the sponges etc.

cheers Darrel


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## biffster (23 Sep 2013)

i dont touch my externals for 6 months to a year and then they only get washed out in tank water


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## roadmaster (23 Sep 2013)

In a mature tank,(as opposed to newly established) bacteria as Clive mention's,,, cling's to all hard surfaces in the tank (ie) glass,plant leaves,rock's,wood,substrate, inside wall's of canister filter,hoses,etc. and is hard to dislodge.
Giving the mechanical media a good rinse under tapwater in mature tank is not likely to harm anything. Addition of healthy plant mass makes it even less likely.
Thing's get a little  more dicey in newly established tank's ,or tank's with no plant's. IME


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