# Side glass is floating



## kirehajba (22 Jun 2021)

Hey guys!

I just got my new rimless aquarium with dimensions: 
160 x 60(h) x 70, glass thickness 15mm. 

However, one of the long-side glasses is floating, for 2mm and not touching the base  
The aquarium is huge so I don't want to take any risks here. 

any thoughts on this one?


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## castle (22 Jun 2021)

That’s poor, it will be slightly weaker as it’s not a full connection to the side of the glass. Honestly it’s not good enough and I’d have them come and fix that.


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## sparkyweasel (22 Jun 2021)

I would also be worried about the air bubbles in the silicone joints, eg in pics 4 and 6.


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## kirehajba (22 Jun 2021)

Thanks Castle! how can this be fixed, beside new aquarium?


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## mort (23 Jun 2021)

To fix it they would have to take that panel off and redo the seal. Tbh it's not the neatest silicone work along any of those seams. Certainly not a professional finish.

Was this a custom job or an off the shelf tank?


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## kirehajba (23 Jun 2021)

Thanks Mort, 
this was a custom build aquarium by an "reputable" and very expensive aquarium builder from Belgium. 
The price was 1900 eur (almost an ADA price)

i think the solution is returning it - but the company who build it doesn't want to take it back, hiding behind a custom build tank...


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## Wookii (23 Jun 2021)

That's shocking quality for that price. Did you pay on credit card? If so, you may/should be able to recall the payment? (Though I'm not sure on how it works for cross border transactions)


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## kirehajba (23 Jun 2021)

I did pay with bank transfer... I have to see the options of taking the money back.. I guess it involves legal support


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## arcturus (23 Jun 2021)

kirehajba said:


> Thanks Mort,
> this was a custom build aquarium by an "reputable" and very expensive aquarium builder from Belgium.
> The price was 1900 eur (almost an ADA price)
> 
> i think the solution is returning it - but the company who build it doesn't want to take it back, hiding behind a custom build tank...



Aquariums built by specialized builders are often made-to-order. You should contact a consumer rights helpdesk in your country to get legal advice, but my understanding of the <EU Consumer Rights framework> is that custom/made-to-order products are excluded from the 14 day "no questions asked" return and refund policy that applies to other products. Apart from this exception, there is no differentiation between customized and non-customized products in terms of rights and guarantees. This means that you should be entitled to a free of charge repair, replacement, or full refund.

The issues you have on this aquarium are not minor. The side pane was not cut to the correct dimensions, which will lead to uneven pressure distribution, and those bubbles and imperfections in the silicone seams are not acceptable in an 700 liter pool aquarium that has no reinforcement bracing. George Farmer had to decommission his amazing Aquascaper 1200 aquarium because of bubbling in the silicone... you certainly do not want to set up a tank that is already displaying the same issues even before being filled up! I would request a new replacement aquarium since the company will need to redo several seams or a full refund. Get legal advice because this aquarium is too big a risk.


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## mort (23 Jun 2021)

It's very common for tank builders to play hard ball because it's difficult to just send a tank back. That tank isn't really fit for purpose so you should be able to make them replace or make good but I would really closely examine any new tank from them for even the smallest imperfection if you go down the replacement route. It should all be at their expense as well.

This is an example of what we used to call a companies over here, "Friday night specials", because they frequently sent out tanks that looked like they wanted to knock off early and head down the pub.

For the amount you paid for the tank it should be perfect and not leave you wondering if it's safe to fill.

Good luck getting it sorted.


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## Sean Scapes (23 Jun 2021)

Just out of curiosity what brand is that tank? I would send it back last thing you want is for it to give way when full that could be more costly then the tank itself. As others have said bubbling silicone is definitely not a good sign especially when its brand new.


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## ScareCrow (24 Jun 2021)

Might just be me but I've not seen a tank with the side stuck to the outside of the base (if that makes sense). Every tank I've owned/seen has always had the side panels sat on top of the base. I'm not sure why they'd join them like this. If the offset was the other way (protruding below the base), which I assume could happen using this method, it would be even worse. Might just be me but would be interested if others have seen this before.

Good luck with getting it resolved though.


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## zozo (24 Jun 2021)

kirehajba said:


> Thanks Castle! how can this be fixed, beside new aquarium?


Dismantle (Cut) the entire tank, clean it and redo it... Taking out only one panel you'll run into the issue that new silicone does not bond very well with old cured silicone. 

The issue with large tanks is the skinning time of the silicone. Depending on which brand is used this will be between 8 and 12 minutes. This means the complete tank needs to be done within this skinning time. And obviously, how larger the tank is how faster you need to work. And doing that in a max of 12 minutes is extremely fast. It shows that your's was a hasty job from a novice. And it's a one-way ticket to the blues. There will be no turning back, mistakes can only be solved by letting the silicone cure preferably a week, and go as described above and redo it. 

And that's what gives them the hiccups of course and trying to bend around all the corners not to have to redo it. Taking it apart and cleaning it might be a day's work if not longer. And then having the risk it isn't cleaned enough and run into issues again. The one-way ticket to the blues... Sorry for the bad news.


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## zozo (24 Jun 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> I'm not sure why they'd join them like this.


The bottom panel inside is not only the strongest tank construction but also easier to assemble...  

Pretty commonly preferred construction nowadays, look at all off-the-shelf factory-made tanks. They all have the bottom panel inside.


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## Nick potts (24 Jun 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Might just be me but I've not seen a tank with the side stuck to the outside of the base (if that makes sense). Every tank I've owned/seen has always had the side panels sat on top of the base. I'm not sure why they'd join them like this. If the offset was the other way (protruding below the base), which I assume could happen using this method, it would be even worse. Might just be me but would be interested if others have seen this before.
> 
> Good luck with getting it resolved though.



It's called a floating base (or similar) and it is/was quite a popular method of tank building.

All my current tanks have the sides stuck on the outside of the base.


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## Wookii (24 Jun 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Might just be me but I've not seen a tank with the side stuck to the outside of the base (if that makes sense). Every tank I've owned/seen has always had the side panels sat on top of the base. I'm not sure why they'd join them like this. If the offset was the other way (protruding below the base), which I assume could happen using this method, it would be even worse. Might just be me but would be interested if others have seen this before.
> 
> Good luck with getting it resolved though.



Opposite for me - I'm not sure I've ever seen a tank with the vertical panels sat on the base panel? There is never an exposed silicone seam on the bottom of any of the tanks I've seen.

Edit: Sorry, post crossed with the other two post above confirming the same.


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## zozo (24 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> 'm not sure I've ever seen a tank with the vertical panels sat on the base panel?


I did, but that's a long time ago, it's a rather old-school tank build technique...

And I forgot the bottom inside is a tad cheaper as well because you only need to unsharpen and grind 8 sides. With sides on the top bottom panel, there are 4 sides extra to polish. Grinding/polishing the glass edges on average will cost about 3 quits p/feet.


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## ScareCrow (24 Jun 2021)

Nick potts said:


> It's called a floating base (or similar) and it is/was quite a popular method of tank building.
> 
> All my current tanks have the sides stuck on the outside of the base.


All of the floating based tanks I've seen or owned have trim at the bottom so the base doesn't actually contact what ever the tank is sat on.



Wookii said:


> Opposite for me - I'm not sure I've ever seen a tank with the vertical panels sat on the base panel? There is never an exposed silicone seam on the bottom of any of the tanks I've seen.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, post crossed with the other two post above confirming the same.





zozo said:


> The bottom panel inside is not only the strongest tank construction but also easier to assemble...
> 
> Pretty commonly preferred construction nowadays, look at all off-the-shelf factory-made tanks. They all have the bottom panel inside.


I clearly need to get a new tank.
Also just realised than two of the tanks I own do actually have the base inside. Apologies, talking rubbish as usual.


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## Nick potts (24 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> Opposite for me - I'm not sure I've ever seen a tank with the vertical panels sat on the base panel? There is never an exposed silicone seam on the bottom of any of the tanks I've seen.
> 
> Edit: Sorry, post crossed with the other two post above confirming the same.



Clearseal budget tanks are still made with the sides on the base. Don't know whether is a cheaper/easer method?


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## zozo (24 Jun 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> I clearly need to get a new tank.



There is nothing wrong with sides on the base, even tho it's less strong it is a neglectable weakness. But in theory side on top of the base, the water pressure pushes the panels out, which creates a rolling edge force on the bottom seams. And silicone is weakest in holding this rolling-off force. Silicon is much stronger withstanding a pushing force and stretching horizontally.

And as explained above it actually is more expensive, because there are 4 sides extra to be polished with bottom outside.

ANd it's more difficult to assemble because you would need standoffs for the side panels to maintain the preferred seam thickness. Because the weight from the panel will push vertically on the yet not cured silicone and squash it out. Thus if you have a good build bottom outside tank it actually prooves good craftmanship.  That should and could be respected. 

Good craftsmen are a dying breed... Obviously...


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## ScareCrow (24 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> There is nothing wrong with sides on the base, even tho it's less strong it is a neglectable weakness. But in theory side on top of the base, the water pressure pushes the panels out, which creates a rolling edge force on the bottom seams. And silicone is weakest in holding this rolling-off force. Silicon is much stronger withstanding a pushing force.
> 
> And as explained above it actually is more expensive, because there are 4 sides extra to be polished with bottom outside.
> 
> ANd it's more difficult to assemble because you would need standoffs for the side panels to maintain the prefered seam thickness. Because the weight from the panel will push vertically on the yet not cured silicone and squash it out. Thus if you have a well build bottom outside tank it actually prooves good craftmanship.  That should and could be respected.


Thanks zozo. I'll still use this as an excuse to get another thank though


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## zozo (24 Jun 2021)

kirehajba said:


> However, one of the long-side glasses is floating, for 2mm and not touching the base


IS it even at the top rim? If so then they cut the glass to short and didn't check that... Then taking it apart and redo it will not solve that issue...


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## MichaelJ (24 Jun 2021)

kirehajba said:


> Thanks Mort,
> this was a custom build aquarium by an "reputable" and very expensive aquarium builder from Belgium.
> The price was 1900 eur (almost an ADA price)
> 
> i think the solution is returning it - but the company who build it doesn't want to take it back, hiding behind a custom build tank..


That is disheartening... Given the consequences of a catastrophic leak (+600 liter of water on your floor...) this should never have passed QA in the first place.  It's a big tank and I am sure it will cost a fortune to send back. I would expect an exchange where they pay for S/H. What was that company again?

Cheers,
Michael


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## PARAGUAY (25 Jun 2021)

@ kirehaba Shame the purchase was made by credit card as l believe you are covered by cross border purchases and you dont even need to contact the retailer . You could even contact your bank to see what they say. A letter to the owner/ cheif executive of the company . They might be persuaded that bad publicity over their workmanship is a small price to pay for a refund. Check the EUs consumer rights legislation


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## kirehajba (25 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> IS it even at the top rim? If so then they cut the glass to short and didn't check that... Then taking it apart and redo it will not solve that issue...


Thanks ZOZO : this is a rimless tank. 
That said - what is your conclusion: Safe/ No Safe?
Most of the ppl are against using this tank - the company states that this is within the safe norm... me: I would not risk it for sure


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## noodlesuk (25 Jun 2021)

As others have mentioned, all the forces are acting out on that side. Agreed the gap should be smaller, doesn't look very tidy, but you would surely want the base pane to touch the cabinet surface, before the edge of a side or front plane. So in theory should it always be floating to stop a concentration of loads?


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## zozo (25 Jun 2021)

I did build quite a few tanks myself over the years and the tanks are still in use today... Made my fair share of mistakes and sloppy silicon seams... And the majority of them never resulted in a leak except for one tank that I made with too little glass thickness that got ripped apart by a rampant growing emersed Cyprus plant.

It doesn't make me a professional and even if any professional opinion still doesn't give any guarantee, flooding an aquarium in a living room is always exciting, and how well made it can always end up with a wet floor one day for whatever reason. A heavy truck driving by shaking the house? The main cause why tanks start to leak over the years is stress on the seams due to poorly made warped cabinets or crooked floors they stand on and the weight of the tank will warp the glass. Then one day it could become too much stress ripping the seams open or even cracking the glass.

My opinion on your tank based upon my experiences is. If the tank is assembled correctly and the bottom panel is absolutely flat and standing on an absolutely level surface then that 2mm gap floating side panel will not be an issue. The weight is completely supported on the bottom. The side pressure on the panels ain't that great. Considering 10-meter water column results in 1 Bar = 100 000 newtons / square meter. Regardless of the volume dimensions, the tallness of the tank is what counts regarding side pressure if it's absolutely level. You can easily calculate how much pressure it needs to hold if the tank is 60cm tall. That ain't that much.

I can imagine your worries without any experience and it's quite a deal to trust a professional delivering sloppy work on his blue eyes that it is within the safety range. Never the less it is sloppy work that could be prevented... If it were me as a DIY hobby builder I have only myself to blame and still would use it.  But regarding a well-paid professional, I personally also would have an issue with accepting silly excuses. This should have been seen before the build and should have been corrected. If they leave you to live on prayer with this, they deserve a very bad review. The least they can do is admit it's sloppy work and give you a partial refund.

I'm afraid you will have to take it as is... Make a back panel from that and forget about it... And if you can't live with the idea, buy another one and it likely will be licking wounds and still forget about it.

Anyway, I've seen much worse made aquariums running without ussies for decades. And also have seen a few cracked open that looked very well made. Buying a tank commes always with guarantee till the door you walk out with it.


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## kirehajba (25 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> I did build quite a few tanks myself over the years and the tanks are still in use today... Made my fair share of mistakes and sloppy silicon seams... And the majority of them never resulted in a leak except for one tank that I made with too little glass thickness that got ripped apart by a rampant growing emersed Cyprus plant.
> 
> It doesn't make me a professional and even if any professional opinion still doesn't give any guarantee, flooding an aquarium in a living room is always exciting, and how well made it can always end up with a wet floor one day for whatever reason. A heavy truck driving by shaking the house? The main cause why tanks start to leak over the years is stress on the seams due to poorly made warped cabinets or crooked floors they stand on and the weight of the tank will warp the glass. Then one day it could become too much stress ripping the seams open or even cracking the glass.
> 
> ...


Thanks Marcel! 
Very well said.. I guess I am at the mercy of the company who build the tank, and of course on my own judgment. 
I live on the 8th floor in Amsterdam, and I can tell you - when it's really windy outside, (and it is, at least a few times a year) the whole building sways, and the aquarium looks like it's loaded on a ship (no joke).
Know this - I want to have the best, no defective built, as anything else will make me wonder what is going on while I am on a vacation..


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## zozo (25 Jun 2021)

kirehajba said:


> Thanks Marcel!
> Very well said.. I guess I am at the mercy of the company who build the tank, and of course on my own judgment.
> I live on the 8th floor in Amsterdam, and I can tell you - when it's really windy outside, (and it is, at least a few times a year) the whole building sways, and the aquarium looks like it's loaded on a ship (no joke).
> Know this - I want to have the best, no defective built, as anything else will make me wonder what is going on while I am on a vacation..



That I understand, especially if you paid top money for it and don't get what you pay for... The issue is with the interpretation of "defective built" between practically safe and solid and or aesthetically and emotionally pleasing. I guess the builder tries to hide behind and say it all with the first and the rest is for you to judge. You can't argue about tastes. And then the service you get is you leave with the feeling to be a whiner. 

I'm pretty pacifistic by character and don't like to make calls for violence, but something like this makes me feel to take the time to drive the thing all the way back and discuss the matter personally in situ with the darn thing in front of their nose. If no proper solution is offered and you're discarded as a whiner, walk back out with the tank and throw it back in through their window.  With the greetings from Amsterdam.


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## kirehajba (25 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> That I understand, especially if you paid top money for it and don't get what you pay for... The issue is with the interpretation of "defective built" between practically safe and solid and or aesthetically and emotionally pleasing. I guess the builder tries to hide behind and say it all with the first and the rest is for you to judge. You can't argue about tastes. And then the service you get is you leave with the feeling to be a whiner.
> 
> I'm pretty pacifistic by character and don't like to make calls for violence, but something like this makes me feel to take the time to drive the thing all the way back and discuss the matter personally in situ with the darn thing in front of their nose. If no proper solution is offered and you're discarded as a whiner, walk back out with the tank and throw it back in through their window.  With the greetings from Amsterdam.


 love your ideas! I am on board! 

To be honest, I just want to be 100% sure that the aquarium is safe and it will not destroy my apartment. For the moment I am not sure at all, as none of us is..

Another thing that is bothering me are these silicone bubbles. it on the "faulty" side and on another of the short sides. what do you think?


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## zozo (25 Jun 2021)

The seams in between the glass give the structural strength a few small bubbles will not weaken it. The triangular seams in the corners give extra strength and it seals. If these are all without bubbles there is no issue. It just doesn't look right and the glass wasn't properly cleaned. I made tanks with bubbles and they still are ok after many years.

But for a professional builder, add badly cleaned + panels incorrectly cut + ignorance + unwilling to acknowledge mistakes + unwilling to give any kind of service accordingly = rather very rude and downright leans towards getting scammed. They are no professionals they are as we say Koekenbakkers.

Living on the 8th floor and having such a large aquarium is rather daunting even if it was 100% perfection. It wouldn't be my idea. At least not with first having a very good chat with an insurance expert.


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## Rockfella (28 Jun 2021)

It won't leak but this tank looks like it was made an amatuer and you should not pay that price for this build. Silicon bubbles are sometimes hard to avoid but the 2mm thing is unacceptable .. specially for the price.


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## Rockfella (28 Jun 2021)

Nick potts said:


> Clearseal budget tanks are still made with the sides on the base. Don't know whether is a cheaper/easer method?


It is definitely not easier. It is the most difficult . .specially for big tanks.


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## Rockfella (28 Jun 2021)

@kirehajba not sure if you have all glass panes on the side of the bottom glass (floating bottom). I read somewhere no foam should be kept under this tank type. Should be a hard flat surface.


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## kirehajba (29 Jun 2021)

Yes, all of the rest sides are matching the bottom


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## arcturus (29 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> The seams in between the glass give the structural strength a few small bubbles will not weaken it. The triangular seams in the corners give extra strength and it seals. If these are all without bubbles there is no issue. It just doesn't look right and the glass wasn't properly cleaned. I made tanks with bubbles and they still are ok after many years. (...)



IMO, the issues with the side panel are minor compared with the imperfections and bubbling in the silicone seams. If this were a "classic" aquarium and not an open "pool" aquarium, the impact would be different. Large aquariums built in the "classical" style make use of a reinforced frame or longitudinal and cross reinforcement bars. This type of reinforced construction not only makes possible using thinner glass panes but also allows for a greater margin of error regarding the application of silicone. Therefore, minor imperfections or bubbling in the silicone seams can be acceptable with this type of construction.

However, (large) pool aquariums are a whole different story since they have no reinforcement structures whatsoever and the seams are often thinner than in other constructions for aesthetic reasons. As a result, issues in the silicone greatly increase the risk of structural failure. This is one of the reasons why pool aquariums are more expensive than classic builds, even when they are built with same type and thickness of glass. Around here, a pool aquarium costs ~50% more than a classic build with the same specs mainly due to the silicone work. I do not know the history behind the company that built @kirehajba 's aquarium. However, I do know of reputed aquarium builders that produce near bomb-proof reinforced tanks but struggled when they started producing pool aquariums because of issues with the silicone work...

In short, if the only issue was a side glass pane cut with the wrong dimensions, I would try at the very least a price reduction given the premium price of this tank, but I would likely accept the tank as it is. However, I would never ever accept a 700 Litre pool tank with issues in the silicone seams, but that is just me


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## Rockfella (29 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> IMO, the issues with the side panel are minor compared with the imperfections and bubbling in the silicone seams. If this were a "classic" aquarium and not an open "pool" aquarium, the impact would be different. Large aquariums built in the "classical" style make use of a reinforced frame or longitudinal and cross reinforcement bars. This type of reinforced construction not only makes possible using thinner glass panes but also allows for a greater margin of error regarding the application of silicone. Therefore, minor imperfections or bubbling in the silicone seams can be acceptable with this type of construction.
> 
> However, (large) pool aquariums are a whole different story since they have no reinforcement structures whatsoever and the seams are often thinner than in other constructions for aesthetic reasons. As a result, issues in the silicone greatly increase the risk of structural failure. This is one of the reasons why pool aquariums are more expensive than classic builds, even when they are built with same type and thickness of glass. Around here, a pool aquarium costs ~50% more than a classic build with the same specs mainly due to the silicone work. I do not know the history behind the company that built @kirehajba 's aquarium. However, I do know of reputed aquarium builders that produce near bomb-proof reinforced tanks but struggled when they started producing pool aquariums because of issues with the silicone work...
> 
> In short, if the only issue was a side glass pane cut with the wrong dimensions, I would try at the very least a price reduction given the premium price of this tank, but I would likely accept the tank as it is. However, I would never ever accept a 700 Litre pool tank with issues in the silicone seams, but that is just me


Popularity of rimless/braceless tanks have forced tank builders to cut corners. None wants to pay more for thicker glass and no-one wants braces on top.


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## zozo (29 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> pool aquariums



I guess it's a language barrier, that I'm not sure what the term Pool Aquarium stands for. Till now I never came across this term. Do you mean a braceless open-top aquarium, solely constructed from 5 panels of glass and nothing else?


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## Rockfella (29 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> I guess it's a language barrier, that I'm not sure what the term Pool Aquarium stands for. Till now I never came across this term. Do you mean a braceless open-top aquarium, solely constructed from 5 panels of glass and nothing else?


I guess that is what he means. He should confirm though lol. Tank without braces anywhere.


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## arcturus (29 Jun 2021)

zozo said:


> I guess it's a language barrier, that I'm not sure what the term Pool Aquarium stands for. Till now I never came across this term. Do you mean a braceless open-top aquarium, solely constructed from 5 panels of glass and nothing else?


Exactly. Sorry for the confusing terminology. I meant an ADA-style braceless aquarium with no reinforcement whatsoever - most of these tanks also feature a  thin silicone seam limited to the contact surface between the glass panes vs. an aquarium with some sort of reinforcement, such as an external frame or braces along and across the top (and bottom, in large aquariums). The quality of the silicone seams is critical in braceless aquariums since it is the only element securing the structural integrity of the system.





vs.


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## Rockfella (29 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> Exactly. Sorry for the confusing terminology. I meant an ADA-style braceless aquarium with no reinforcement whatsoever - most of these tanks also feature a  thin silicone seam limited to the contact surface between the glass panes vs. an aquarium with some sort of reinforcement, such as an external frame or braces along and across the top (and bottom, in large aquariums). The quality of the silicone seams is critical in braceless aquariums since it is the only element securing the structural integrity of the system.
> 
> View attachment 171320
> 
> ...



ADA website info:





I don't think they use silicon.


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## arcturus (29 Jun 2021)

Rockfella said:


> ADA website info:
> View attachment 171326
> 
> I don't think they use silicon.


They do use silicone.  ADA is referring to the usage of heat to temper the glass. What makes ADA aquariums stand out is the high quality control standards they use, not the materials.


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## sparkyweasel (30 Jun 2021)

"In 1994, Cube Garden Superior was launched with the Amano’s belief of shaping what he wants. This aquarium tank uses special heatproof glass sheets joined without silicon glue."
About halfway down this page;
ADA


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## arcturus (30 Jun 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> "In 1994, Cube Garden Superior was launched with the Amano’s belief of shaping what he wants. This aquarium tank uses special heatproof glass sheets joined without silicon glue."
> About halfway down this page;
> ADA


The "special" glass they are referring to is the same glass available to other quality aquariums. For several years, ADA used <Pilkington OptiWhite>, a low-iron glass with a high light transmission coefficient. This glass was a benchmark until
other manufacturers started producing alternatives to the original OptiWhite - this is the reason why "OptiWhite", which is a Pilkington trademark, is often used as a synonym of "extra-clear" glass.  Amano himself selected a group of specialized builders in Germany that were already using this glass to produce the original Cube Gardens according to strict QC standards. ADA eventually moved production/sourcing from Germany to China to reduce costs and to cope with the higher volume of orders. At this point, they also upgraded the glass and the silicone work. . One can say that the original Cube Gardens made in Europe are somewhat "inferior" to the current version. If one compares an older Cube Garden with a newer Cube Garden, there are visible differences in the edges of the glass panes (the older ones using OptiWhite have a slight green tint). The current silicone seams are also thinner and less visible. But the materials available to ADA are also available to other "premium" builders - the big difference is the QC, as demonstrated in the original post of this thread


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## dw1305 (30 Jun 2021)

Hi all, 
I think @arcturus is right, the glass is joined with silicon, but there just isn't a visible seam. 

Lower down it says:


> .......... The ultimately simple frameless design of Cube Garden, consisting of joined glass only, is backed by the high quality glass and silicon as well as outstanding craftsmanship...



cheers Darrel


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## Rockfella (30 Jun 2021)




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## Wookii (30 Jun 2021)

As far as I can tell, there are two variants of the ADA Cube Garden.

The standard, and currently available ADA Cube Garden, is a standard construction low iron glass tank with silicon seams.

The ADA Cube Garden *Superior* doesn't seem to be available any longer, or certainly not with the UK or Europe AFAIKT (it may be a special order item), and uses some sort of heat applied method to fuse the glass panes together. Prices appear to have been in the region of £2k for the 60p, £1,500 for the 30cm cube, so not for the faint hearted!


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## arcturus (30 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> As far as I can tell, there are two variants of the ADA Cube Garden.
> 
> The standard, and currently available ADA Cube Garden, is a standard construction low iron glass tank with silicon seams.
> 
> The ADA Cube Garden *Superior* doesn't seem to be available any longer, or certainly not with the UK or Europe AFAIKT (it may be a special order item), and uses some sort of heat applied method to fuse the glass panes together. Prices appear to have been in the region of £2k for the 60p, £1,500 for the 30cm cube, so not for the faint hearted!


You and @Rockfella are right regarding the Cube Superior! I was unaware of that model. Part of its history is explained in the <ADA website>. This model was designed in 1994 and was available up to a maximum width of 60cm. It was made of some kind of moulded/fused glass without any seams. See the photo below. Due to costs and size limitations, ADA replaced the Cube Garden Superior model with the "normal" Cube Garden featuring thin silicone seams. For a number of years, these models with silicone seams were made (at least) in Germany. ADA eventually moved production to Asia (I believe around 2010) and continued to upgrade their materials and building techniques, leading to the models available today that have almost invisible silicone seams.


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## dw1305 (30 Jun 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> It was made of some kind of moulded/fused glass without any seams.........Prices appear to have been in the region of £2k for the 60p, £1,500 for the 30cm cube, so not for the faint hearted!


I've got lots of old glass chromatography tanks, I might reconsider what to do with them. 

cheers Darrel


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## arcturus (30 Jun 2021)

Rockfella said:


> View attachment 171335


A few scattered small air bubbles are normal due to the way silicone is injected between the glass panes. Such bubbles are only a cause of concern if their number starts visibly increasing and air gaps start to form while the tank is in operation. However, the photos of the OP do not show the usual small bubbles but continuous areas, several cms wide (note that the glass thickness is 15mm), where the silicone has not adhered to the glass at all, possibly due to poorly cleaned surfaces, incorrect application of the silicone, and/or incorrect stabilization of the glass panes while the silicone was curing.


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## Rockfella (30 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> A few scattered small air bubbles are normal due to the way silicone is injected between the glass panes. Such bubbles are only a cause of concern if their number starts visibly increasing and air gaps start to form while the tank is in operation. However, the photos of the OP do not show the usual small bubbles but continuous areas, several cms wide (note that the glass thickness is 15mm), where the silicone has not adhered to the glass at all, possibly due to poorly cleaned surfaces, incorrect application of the silicone, and/or incorrect stabilization of the glass panes while the silicone was curing.


Yep. Looking at how one pane is 1/2 mm higher it seems like it was not even kept on a flat surface!


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## Wookii (30 Jun 2021)

Rockfella said:


> Yep. Looking at how one pane is 1/2 mm higher it seems like it was not even kept on a flat surface!



I imagine it probably was manufactured on a flat surface, but I suspect they knew the side pane was cut too short, so they would have had to jack it up with some shims to keep the top edge level.


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## Rockfella (30 Jun 2021)

Wookii said:


> I imagine it probably was manufactured on a flat surface, but I suspect they knew the side pane was cut too short, so they would have had to jack it up with some shims to keep the top edge level.


Yep, instead of grinding/polishing the taller panes.


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## zozo (30 Jun 2021)

Rockfella said:


> Yep, instead of grinding/polishing the taller panes.



This is relatively time-consuming and labor-intensive in machine/man-hours...  A few years ago it did cost me €10 p/m. And I guess labor doesn't come cheaper as time passes. Anyway, then cutting a new correct panel would be quicker and cheaper.


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## sparkyweasel (30 Jun 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I think @arcturus is right, the glass is joined with silicon, but there just isn't a visible seam.


He's talking about the Cube Garden, Rockfella was referring to the Cube Garden Superior.


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## sparkyweasel (30 Jun 2021)

arcturus said:


> continuous areas, . . . where the silicone has not adhered to the glass at all, possibly due to poorly cleaned surfaces,


That is what worries me. If they didn't clean the glass properly the rest of the silicone, even though it appears to be adhered to the glass, may not be attached with the required strength.


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## kirehajba (4 Jul 2021)

Thank you guys for all the great input! So if I understand correctly, the verdict is that this tank is not safe for use?


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## kirehajba (4 Jul 2021)

Hey guys... so the saga continues... I just found that one of the glasses is chipped from the edge towards inside (this photo is taken from above) 
This is unbelievable... All the hopes that I had about this aquarium are down 
Let's see what the aquarium company will say now! I guess this will be yet another, "it's normal" answer


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## Paul Willi (4 Jul 2021)

In the uk we have a free service called citizen advice which can give help regarding your rights with purchases, when things go wrong. Hopefully you have something similar in Holland, would definitely be to your advantage to find out where you stand before speaking to the seller. It’s not fit for purpose In my opinion. Sorry for your misfortune and good luck 👍


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## Rockfella (5 Jul 2021)

Good luck and go DIY. It has it's learning curve but it is worth it.


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## mort (5 Jul 2021)

kirehajba said:


> Thank you guys for all the great input! So if I understand correctly, the verdict is that this tank is not safe for use?



Unfortunately yes I wouldn't use this tank. It is full of lots of different issues that on there own would give you a reason to be very unhappy with the build quality but together gives a real warning sign as to this companies fabrication ability.


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## PARAGUAY (7 Jul 2021)

I would focus on a refund and being in the EU I would be suprised if you didnt have good consumer rights. Escalate the issue to the CEO of the company with email or letter while you find your consumer help


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## zozo (7 Jul 2021)

Paul Willi said:


> In the uk we have a free service called citizen advice which can give help regarding your rights with purchases, when things go wrong. Hopefully you have something similar in Holland, would definitely be to your advantage to find out where you stand before speaking to the seller. It’s not fit for purpose In my opinion. Sorry for your misfortune and good luck 👍


Yes, we do and we don't, it's named Consumers Association you can contact for complaints... But in this case, if I'm correct it was purchased in Belgium that changes things because it's a different country with different laws. But even if it wasn't in the end, if it turns into a yes/no argument between seller and buyer what they will say is it's a civil Procedure. Then you need a lawyer etc. which costs will exceed the price of the item in question.

The best practice, in this case, is to use a service like PayPal as the middle man. Or another pay service that offers buyers protection with a money-back guarantee. And transfer the money as an official purchase and not as a private money transfer. Then if you receive an order that is not described as advertised or broken whatsoever. And there is no way the problem can be solved with the seller you can put Paypal on it. And they have a good name to protect, then if you have solid evidence then Paypal refunds the money and is responsible for the further legal action towards the seller. 

I've had issues like this myself and got refunded without any further questions asked.

What could be another issue, lately I visited a website from a Dutch company that builds custom aquariums and they offer them in an impeccable state. But actually, do this very sneaky, and in the descriptions, they advertise it with "An aquarium should, of course, be perfect to the centimeter. You deserve nothing less! We can make it for you!. A statement like that already worries me... It should be perfect to the millimeter instead.

Thus if you order one and it's not perfect to the millimeter you can't say it ain't following the advertised description. Sneaky bastards...


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## Dogtemple (7 Jul 2021)

Do they have a social media presence?  Complaining through twitter or something like that can get companies to move pretty sharpish. Threatening to make a youtube video of the issue will probably get them in to gear too


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