# Erythromycin



## LondonDragon (5 Feb 2009)

I have read on a portuguese forum that this can help kill algae outbreaks.

Has anyone used it? Thoughts?


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## Mark Evans (5 Feb 2009)

it works on BGA a treat. i've used it once in my early days, then made sure i had prevention rather than the cure.

it works on BGA, fact. they say it harms bacteria, i had no i'll effects what so ever (no apparent effects anyway)


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## GreenNeedle (5 Feb 2009)

Apparently (seem to remember Tom Barr saying) that it doesn't affect filter bacteria.

Something to do with one of them being positive and the other negative something or other.

Either way he said it kills Cyano but not 'beneficial'

AC


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## Themuleous (5 Feb 2009)

I've used it several times to finish off ecspecailly stubborn bouts of BGA and it works a treat.  Its tricky to get hold of thou as its only available by prescription in the UK.

It so had no noticeable effect on my filter.

Sam


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## George Farmer (5 Feb 2009)

Yep, works well on BGA but not other 'algae' (BGA is not algae).  No apparent side effect either.

Black-outs are generally regarded as the best immediate remedy for BGA, but in combo with erythromicine, it doesn't stand a chance.


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## aaronnorth (5 Feb 2009)

EM is specific to gram positive, the filter bacteria are gram negative - Cyanobacteria is positive so therefore it only kils BGA


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## Nick16 (5 Feb 2009)

is there anything like this that will kill BBA? apart from the obvious easycarbo/excell. (or bleach)

that is stubborn it my tank, almost killed all of it, then there is a few bits left over that wont go even with spot dosing.


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## Themuleous (5 Feb 2009)

Erythromycin works as its a antibiotic and BGA is a bacteria NOT an algae so unfortunately no there aren't things like this for the other algaes, if only! 

Sam


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## Malfie (16 Feb 2009)

Hi guys.
How can I get hold of the stuff if it's only available on prescription here in the UK ?
Have I got to pretend to my doctor that I need antibiotics and that I'm allergic to penicillin   

Malfie


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## JamesC (16 Feb 2009)

Malfie said:
			
		

> How can I get hold of the stuff if it's only available on prescription here in the UK ?


That is exactly the problem. If you really want some then you have to go to your local vet and get some on prescription. I can't see them being very helpful if you tell them it's for clearing up a bit of algae. Anti-biotics are very strictly controlled in the UK, and rightly so, so if you purchase some from abroad via the internet you are breaking the law.

There is absolutely no need to use anti-biotics when a 3 day blackout is 100% effective if done correctly and best of all it's free of charge.

James


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## aaronnorth (17 Feb 2009)

I think someone on here bought some EM from America.


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## Ed Seeley (17 Feb 2009)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> I think someone on here bought some EM from America.



If they did then lets hope customs don't catch up with them.  Antibiotics are regulated for good reasons that may well save your life so it's best to just use a blackout or up the current, give the tank a really good clean and increase the water changes as this will get rid of BGA too IME.


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## aaronnorth (17 Feb 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
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Personally i would do a blackout, just because it would take longer than 3-5days for delivery  I managed to get rid of the BGA in my tank by a 3 day blackout followed by 50% daily water changes for the following week. It hasnt come back since and i never did buy the koralia lol  I will be using one on my 240l though thats for sure   

Thanks.


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## a1Matt (17 Feb 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
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I appreciate it is offotpic, but I am very curious... how does regulating antibiotics potentially save lifes? 

Is it so that we have no contact with them, therefore do not build up any resistance, therefore if we need them in an emergency they will work better?

I hope so as I have not had any medication at all in 15 years (have never had anything I can't just grit my teeth and bear until it passes fortunately).  Although I think I remember hearing that a lot of livestock that ends up as meat on our plates is injected with high levels of antibiotics so may have ingested it that way.


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## Ed Seeley (17 Feb 2009)

Antibiotic resistance is a serious and spreading threat.  The reason MRSA and C.difficile are so hard to treat and devastating is that they are resistant to all but a few, rather severe antibiotics.  Strep and C.diff are two common bacteria in your body but it is antiobiotic resistance and a lowering of immune response that makes them so dangerous.

I know you're now thinking well that's fine because I'm not going to get infected from my fish tank but one of the most amazing things about bacteria is that antibiotic resistance is carried on a separate peice of DNA within them called a plasmid.  This simple loop of DNA can also be transferred between bacteria.  Please note this can happen not just between individuals of the same species but even between individuals of completely different unrelated species.  

This means that if you were, for instance, to treat your tank with Erythromycin you will kill off a lot of bacteria that are suspectible to it - but not all!  Some of those bacteria that survive may well develop resistance to the antibiotic (this is more likely the more times treated and not necessarily going to happen but the more it is used the more likely it may be to occur).  If you are, for instance, performing a water change or even just trimming your plants a bacteria with resitance could then mingle with your own body's bacterial fauna spreading the antibiotic resistance.  If you were then to be needing treatment with Erythromycin it may not work!  Each individual case may not be a big issue but add them together with the indescriminate use of other antibiotics and you can see the consequences _could_ be severe.

Obviously this is a worst case scenario but also bear in mind that if you treat the tank with antibiotics the water from water changes will also contain it will spread that antibiotic into the wider environment too.

Basically IMHO we shouldn't be using them for such needless uses as treating algae problems in a tank and should save them for when they are really needed.


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## a1Matt (17 Feb 2009)

Thanks Ed that was a really great post.

I work for a medical charity ( www.cftrust.org.uk ) and have heard a consultant recommend that people with CF should not own a tropical aquarium for the exact reason of how easy bacteria can transfer from the tank to the person.  THis is not talking about resistances or new bugs, just those that are out there already.


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## Malfie (17 Feb 2009)

Thanks James.
It's just that I have tried blackouts before.I think I have done three so far and the stuff came back !
I only have really small patches (about 3-5mm across),but I can see more and more patches appearing each day.I will have another go with the blackout.Wish me luck.

Malfie


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## JamesC (17 Feb 2009)

If a blackout is ineffective then it's because light is getting in during the blackout. It only requires a small amount of light to ruin the blackout.

If it keeps coming back afterwards then it's because conditions aren't up to scratch in your tank. Those are what you need to fix. Even if you use anti-biotics it will still come back again if you don't fix the problems, although it may take a bit longer to develop.

James


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## JohnC (18 Feb 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

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tumteetum....  8) 

took 4 attempts from different online retailers, eventually got 2 orders through. The supplier was asked to "vaguely" label on one occasion. 

someone i met in the pub that is, not me, i'd never do anything that dodgy. honest. 

worked a treat thou. lost one amano thou.

best regards,

john


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## JohnC (18 Feb 2009)

JamesC said:
			
		

> If a blackout is ineffective then it's because light is getting in during the blackout. It only requires a small amount of light to ruin the blackout.
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> If it keeps coming back afterwards then it's because conditions aren't up to scratch in your tank. Those are what you need to fix. Even if you use anti-biotics it will still come back again if you don't fix the problems, although it may take a bit longer to develop.
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> James



this is basically sums it up. blackouts would have worked for me if i had got them right and long enough, by the time i had nailed the params (Nitrates up to a decent level constantly) i had the Erythromycin and used it in combination with the blackout (4 days blackout, 7 days dosing) and have never had any issue with BGA again.

Which i am very happy about, since it is the worst "algae" i've ever had.

Best Regards,

John

p.s Ed. - excellent post. well done for highlighting the ethical side of antibiotic missuse.


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