# What to you are good/bad signs when in a new LFS



## castle (4 Mar 2016)

As title says, I'm visiting more stores now, just to visit really, but occasionally an alarm bell rings, for example - I won't name them yet, as I might be wrong - I was told a store would have a delivery of Otos Thursday and would be available that day. To me, they need some rest, and quarantine but that's me - I don't know the processes of their supplier. 

So yeah, any other things you look for in a store that incites a sale, or stears you clear?


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## parotet (4 Mar 2016)

Good thing: fish tanks labeled with name, price AND arrival date

Bad things: a bunch of incompatible fish in the same tank (last time I saw it, several males of Apistogramma seriously damaged and exhausted after hours and hours of stress)


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## roadmaster (4 Mar 2016)

If all the net's they use to catch fish are in filthy bucket,I steer clear.


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## darren636 (4 Mar 2016)

I don't think I've been in a great shop.
They all have serious issues.
Every single shop .


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## ian_m (4 Mar 2016)

Tank labelling with maximum size the fish grow too. Bought too many fish, in my time, that start small and soon outgrow the tank.


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## dw1305 (4 Mar 2016)

Hi all, 





castle said:


> So yeah, any other things you look for in a store that incites a sale, or stears you clear


I've walked into a few shops, and straight back out again. Worst one had the most anaemic, washed out looking fish you have ever seen and bare tanks (just aquarium gravel), but with BBA like Gorilla fake fur.

As well as the obvious dead fish etc the other thing that make me worry are:

Non-aquatic plants for sale. 

Deformed fish in the "cheap fish" range . 

A lot of surface scum on the tanks.
If a shop looks UK I try and talk to the owner (or fish buyer if it is chain shop), once I've found a "_fish-keeper with a shop_", I buy from them.

Best two locally for me are:
"Pet Care" 1A St Paul St, Chippenham SN15 1LJ, which is a small general pet shop and you wouldn't have much expectation for it, it doesn't have a huge range of fish but  they are really well cared for (owner is "Arthur").

and

The <"MA at Leekes at Melksham">, not usually my sort of thing, but the fish buyer (ask for "Tom") is a fish keeper and breeder, and likes more unusual fish.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (4 Mar 2016)

Aquajardan at Southampton is my favourite.

Other shops I have bought from in local area, have given my tank ich and snails and fish that don't last long....


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## Colinlp (4 Mar 2016)

General appearance is my first clue. Clean tanks, glass everything, no dead fish. Just those first impressions as you walk in


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## John S (4 Mar 2016)

Pretty much as above. Cleanliness of tanks, fish condition, labels (fish max size, or recommended group size and whether community or specialist etc)

My LFS is appalling for having dead fish on display and ones that have been dead for some time. I did use to use it for cheap frozen food but on my last visit there were 14 places (the smallest 7" in  4x1x1 foot tank and a tank of Platties that had the most white spot I'd ever seen in my life, so I'd rather go to a shop where the frozen food cost more but they take care of their livestock.

I avoid places that have dyed fish and the selling of non aquatic plants annoys me.


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## darren636 (4 Mar 2016)

I did recommend Maidenhead aquatics wimborne, but for the last year it's been one big tank of death.
Multiple dead fish, often in the same tank. 
Filthy substrates and glass.
Their r/o water was a disgrace at 130+ppm.
Shocking decline.


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## cooling (4 Mar 2016)

My 2 LFS are a disgrace! , i wont name and shame them .These are the things i look for when buying fishes.
Cleaniess of the shop , no dead fishes , clean tanks and frames , and fish that havnt been put in too small a tank ....
I would recommend both MA Fareham and Southsea .


John S said:


> I avoid places that have dyed fish and the selling of non aquatic plants annoys me.


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## Sk3lly (4 Mar 2016)

I always find the fish im there to buy and check appearance of them. Before asking staff to bag them up i will do a quick walk around of all other tanks to check for the dreaded ich! 

Today for example i wanted 5 otos. In i go, find them quickly. Do my walk around to find some badly affected tiger barbs suffering ich. I will not take the chance of shared filtration as i have no quarantine tank setup  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Henry (4 Mar 2016)

There's a number of things misunderstood about fish shops:

People will buy non-aquatic plants, even when you tell them they're non aquatic. If the shop doesn't sell Dracena, they'll go 10 minutes up the road to Pets At Home to get it.

Tanks are often left bare for cleanliness and reduction of aggression. Some sand on the bottom is always nice though, so the fish doesn't feel like they're above deep water.

Dead fish are a fact of life for even the best fish shops. With such large stock, there's bound to be a couppe of weak ones who succumb to the natural selection process. Consistently dead species should be taken off sale until they're shown to be death free for a period of time. Dead fish in the tank for a long period of time is unacceptable.

Large, shared filtration systems are necessary for a stable system. Having each tank on individual filtration is risky when stocks increase suddenly eg. fish delivery day, as ammonia can arise, causing issues. If a shop is kept properly, the systems are regularly dosed with a number of pregentatives, and run with massive UVs to keep disease and parasites from spreading. There'll also be large daily water changes happening. There's a lot going on in those sumps than people see. Selling fish from an infected tank, however, is completely unacceptable.

A bad fish shop, to me, is run by someone who will lie to you to put money in the till. The customer should always be fully informed, even if it isn't profitable or what they're wanting to hear. It's important that people get the correct information in the first place, preventing disappointment and frustration that only puts people off continuing the hobby.


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## dan4x4 (18 Mar 2016)

I can always tell a good fish shop in the following way
1.Busy is a good sign they won't be reheating chips
2.They should have salt and vinegar on the counter for you to use
3.Decent portions!
4.Meal deals!

Haha I joke, I go off their customer service. Theres one place I've been back to as he sells the plants really cheap and he's a nice fella - AM aquatics team valley.  

I like for there to be a snazzy aquarium stores round here, but there all pretty much the same.


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## Aqua360 (19 Mar 2016)

I don't trust most stores now. For me, livestock is from my friend who has his own shop/breeder set-up; even then I have a hospital tank that fish are treated for parasites, and quarantined for a month before going in my tanks. 

Plants are from reputable online companies such as aquarium gardens, that will vouch for shrimp safe, no pesticides, no snails etc. 

I absolutely never want to be treating diseases such as whitespot in my tanks again, its hard enough keeping balance with nutrients, co2 etc without throwing ich meds and higher temps into the mix...


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## zozo (19 Mar 2016)

I recently found a shop owner whit a webshop and he drives around the country personaly, 2 times a month the northern part and 2 times a month the southern part. Delivering the ordered fish at your doorstep.. After reading only positive reviews on his website and impartial forums i gave it a try. And because he does it like that he offers any fish his breeders offer in his webshop. What he doesn't have in store he picks up at the breeders the day before delivery.. This reduces the price drasticaly and is rather cheap compaired with any LFS in my driving range. so even with the extra delivery cost added it's more than very reasonable.

A few weeks back he brought me fish i actualy have never seen in stock at any LFS and all fish were very healthy and are still doing very good.. Next week he's bringing me the next batch i ordered.. Again a species i've not yet seen in any LFS. Probably my choices aren't among the most popular fish. He has only a small fraction of what he offers in his own store, most fish ordered are comming directly from the breeder. He picks them up a day before he makes his round. I see this actualy as a possitive side of the concept, it reduces not only the price it also reduces the stress for the fish significantly. And the choises in fish increases in ten fold. 

Realy a big +1 for this fellow and his bussines concept.

Maybe an idea for other smarty pants in other countries reading this forum.. This is a good bussines concept if you play it right.

For the dutch fishkeepers here at UKAPS.. I can only recomend..
http://corydora.nl/index.php?route=product/category&path=212_59
Arjan is doing a great job..


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## SandstoneSturgeon (26 Mar 2016)

My favorite LFS closed.  Huge selection of aquatic plants and fish and hardly ever dead fish (I think I saw maybe two the whole time I have been going there).  The guy who ran it was a fishkeeper and ran his own little tank cleaning/maintenance business in the evenings as well.  Those were the things that I like to see in a store.

Now that he is gone all I have available are the large chains PetCo and Petsmart.  They try but store associates hired by large business just don't really have their heart in it.  Mostly just for a paycheck and you can tell that they don't really know what they're talking about a lot of the time.

(Hmmmmm.  Las Vegas is a two hour drive from St George.  If they had a decent store, it might make it worth the trip!)


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## MWS (11 Apr 2016)

My LFS (quite a busy, well known one in my area) is an awful place I’ve not used for quite some time now.

Multiple tanks full of Cordyline, Peacock Ferns etc. for sale as “aquatic plants”  Quite a lot of dead fish in the tanks always noticeable.

It’s also a garden centre and laughable that a large stem of Cordyline in the aquarium section is (was last time I went) £1.50 - go through the the garden centre section and the same Cordyline as an houseplant in a 1L pot is £8.99!!

Some of the conversations I have over heard in the aquarium shop have been, well, disturbing is all I can say, I recall standing at the counter whilst an unsuspecting customer was there with a blank expression whilst being told his water chemistry (totally incorrect waffle at that) is why the fish he purchased there last week have all died - nothing to do with the fact they advised he could put them into the new tank on the same day he purchased it (from them) if he used the “pixie dust” they sold him a bottle of at the same time to cycle it instantly.

I made my point by taking a test tube in with me and sneakily dipping into one of their tanks then taking it to the counter to take advantage of the “free water testing service” I was informed my water was so bad it was “poisonous” and potentially deadly (Nitrate/Nitrite - no mention of Ammonia tho’) to any fish and was lucky they are still alive - I urgently needed to buy a bottle of this, a pack of that, a test kit,….the list went on and was told this was the only hope of keeping my fish alive.

“Don’t do a water change at this stage as it may be too much of a shock”

I did challenge them the following week but they “couldn’t remember me being there”.......


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## BigTom (11 Apr 2016)

Having been working in a (pretty decent) LFS for the last 18 months I reckon I've got my eye in.

As ever, it's a bit of a balancing act. Well decorated tanks or planted system tanks are much better for reducing stress, but easier to miss the odd dead fish tucked down the back. We run a very busy system (probably 20k fish on trops) with quite a lot of tank furniture and work really hard on fish health but still miss the odd one - especially on a busy weekend where staffing levels mean you might not get a chance to do a full system check for hours at a time. So I tend to forgive the odd freshly dead fish during busy periods - it happens. Long-dead or multiple dead 'uns is another matter.

You also need to account for how long the fish have been in. The way a lot of suppliers send fish would probably shock a lot of people, so they arrive stressed and sometimes chock full of whitespot or bacterial infections. Lots of shops don't have dedicated quarantine facilities so you're having to deal with whole tanks full of sick fish right where everyone can see them. Wild-caughts are often seriously malnourished which takes time to fix.

For me, the single biggest indicators are presence/absence of unsuitable fish and the kind of advice people are given. These normally go hand in hand - one of our major competitors has tanks full of silver sharks, arrowana, oscars, 'freshwater' sole, parrot cichlids, piranha, balloon strains, etc. They also have a policy of never refusing a sale. We stock none of those fish and turn people down all the time if their tanks aren't suitable.

That and the whole non-aquatic plants thing.


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## dw1305 (11 Apr 2016)

Hi all,





MWS said:


> It’s also a garden centre and laughable that a large stem of Cordyline in the aquarium section is (was last time I went) £1.50 - go through the the garden centre section and the same Cordyline as an houseplant in a 1L pot is £8.99!!


I had the misfortune to visit a local large garden centre on Sunday (I won't name it, but it is located on the Corsham road, Lacock, Wilts.). 

The aquatic section was beyond horrible, I didn't get a photo, but the gravel in the tanks was entirely covered by a luminous carpet of cyanobacteria, there were dead fish in many of the tanks and the "aquatic" plant section prominently featured both _Dracaena_ and _Selaginella. _

It was packed with people.

cheers Darrel


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## MWS (13 Apr 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,I had the misfortune to visit a local large garden centre on Sunday (I won't name it, but it is located on the Corsham road, Lacock, Wilts.).
> 
> The aquatic section was beyond horrible, I didn't get a photo, but the gravel in the tanks was entirely covered by a luminous carpet of cyanobacteria, there were dead fish in many of the tanks and the "aquatic" plant section prominently featured both _*Dracaena*_ and _Selaginella._
> 
> cheers Darrel



That's another one I see everywhere I go Darrell - Pets at Home always have a healthy stock of this, reason being is that it sells well - probably does so because its the only one not covered in Algae and actually looks like a plant in their tanks!

What really upsets me is recently all the Pets at home stores I've visited (it's a dog thing) have had loads of Oto's in their tanks. They are beyond hope, destined to die in the 10L pink tank they have just sold saying "give it two weeks and you can put fish in" then having the front to ask for your name and address, tank details before they will sell, apparently in the interests of the well being fish - tragic and cruel treatment of a live creature for a couple of quid.

Heartbreaking really.


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## Polly (7 Mar 2018)

> then having the front to ask for your name and address, tank details before they will sell, apparently in the interests of the well being fish - tragic and cruel treatment of a live creature for a couple of quid


.

This is why I never buy from PAH.  Their petcare advice is awful.  The only reason I can fathom for taking purchasers name and ' is for marketing and data collection purposes - there's a huge market for data.   The fact that their staff have no experience/knowledge of fishkeeping gives the lie to their reasons for taking names and addresses.

I asked why they needed the information and was told it's  the law !   If this were the case, I'm sure large aquatic companies like MA  would be complying.


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## castle (7 Mar 2018)

Re: _*Dracaena*_

When I asked in my P@H about this, I was rudely told _"all plants we sell are verified by the RSPCA as fish safe"._


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## Gaina (7 Mar 2018)

I wanted to check out other shops in my area (I love the one I use but it's always good to check out other options) so I went to a few and 'played daft', asking questions I already know the answers to.   Some of the answers I got were shocking!  

I also look for clean tanks (algae is a fact of life for all fish keepers but I did see one horrible tank with a very miserable, dull discus that I would have rescued if I'd had the knowledge and space for the poor thing).  

I also ask about their quarantine procedures - to my mind, they should be happy to answer these questions if it means happy customers who come back. 

My favourite LFS were also great when I was a total novice, helping me choose the equipment that was right for me, not just trying to sell expensive tat to a newbie.


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## BubblingUnder (7 Mar 2018)

Quarantine period
Tank Labelling
How long has it been open ? If its good likely to be longer 
Specialisation - Freshwater, Sea , Koi (is it a jack of all trades master of none)
Does it look cared for No dead/ill fish, clean substrate (if any) 
Customer Care - can they retain knowledgeable staff ?
High plant turnover & labelling
Reasonable Hardware selection
Ownership - avoid large chains
Parking


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