# Winter Water Change Acceptable temp



## RolyMo (3 Nov 2012)

Hi All
Was looking to get some advice on water temp whilst doing water changes.

I did a water change today where I added water from the outdoor mains water tap via the garden hose.
Admittedly the water temp seemed cold. Normal temp for the tank is approx 23 degrees celcius.

After filling the tank back up (must have been a 75% water change) I switched back on the pump and heater and left it for approx 1hr (declor was added BTW).

When I came back to check everything I saw one of my Red Phantom Tetra's being sucked against the filter intake, not a normal sight. I switched the filter off and fish just faded away and floated, barely alive. After observing a for a few minutes I decided to take the decision to put it out of its misery and used the ice bath method.

At the time of filling up I also noticed the Cardinal Tetra's seemed very sluggish, one looking like it was going to die, but when the temp got back to normal they were all happy and fine swimming in their shoals.

I did not take a temp reading of the tap water. I would think it is under 8 degrees C (colder than a bottle of white wine). If that temp is too cold for the fish what would be your suggestion of getting the water a bit more palatable for the fish for a 90 litre water change? 

Is this the time to think about RO and getting the big PVC containers filled with RO water and storing in the spare room in the house until needed?

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated as I do not want to loose any more fish as its sad to see and upsets the kids too (guess thats life).   

Thanks in advance
R


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Nov 2012)

Hey, sounds like thermal shock, you water should be as close to the tank temp as possible. You could either get a hose adapter that fits to the hot and cold from your kitchen or good old buckets.
Ps.. Ice bath method is a terrible way to see fish off as it's slow and painful. Use either clove oil or bang it on the head as if you were fishing, if you have to.


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## RolyMo (3 Nov 2012)

Great thank you. 
The hose option not really an option. So you are saying I could mix the hot and cold water from the kitchen sink to get the temp to the right level a la the tank temp?

Will look for Clove oil. Thanks. 
Appreciate the tips. 
R


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## Antipofish (3 Nov 2012)

Hmm, think about it.  23degrees normal temp, then you take out 75%+ and change it with 8degrees or less.  That really is a little crazy isnt it ?  The fish death was completely avoidable.  Its not just the sudden massive drop in temperature but also the long time it would have taken to come back up to 23 degrees that would have killed the fish. As far as your comment (guess thats life) goes, no it is not. At least it SHOULD not be.  When the life of live fish is concerned you need to consider carefully what you do rather than adopting the suck it and see approach.


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## RolyMo (3 Nov 2012)

Appreciate that Antipofish. A careless foolish dimwitted mistake on my behalf, agreed. The comment in "that's life" was more angled at educating my child that pets die rather than meant as a chuck away comment on a fish dying and not caring. I am gutted. 

A tough lesson to learn. 

The temp thing only occurred afterward the event as all summer and autumn I have carried out the same routine without noticeable degradation of livestock. Clearly mains water at that point was warmer.


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## Matt Warner (3 Nov 2012)

Generally you can use cooler water for water changes as long as the overall tank temperature doesn't drop by more than a couple of degrees centigrade. During the winter I fill my water change buckets with about 75% cold water then top it up with hot water from the hot tap to take the chill off the water. Some say you shouldn't use the hot water tap for water changes because of high levels of heavy metals such as copper, but I've  never had a problem using this method. A decent water conditioner should detoxify metals anyway.


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## Clifford (3 Nov 2012)

Of course, if you don't want to use the hot tap you can use a kettle to boil some water before mixing in a bucket.

Don't go near your tank with a kettle of boiling water!

The water temp is so much higher than your mains water you don't need much to increase the temperature of your tap water.

Of course 90+ litres is still a lot of water and an awful lot of buckets.


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## Antipofish (3 Nov 2012)

Cliff is right, 90L is a lot of buckets, but its only 3x 25L plastic jerry cans if you reduce it to 75L.  a 75% water change is not really necessary under normal circumstances so you would manage with 75L easily.  I am about to do the same thing with the cans as Im getting an RO filter.


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## RolyMo (3 Nov 2012)

Ah good idea. (Gerry cans). 
Thanks. The reason for the massive water change was some issues with lights, lack if co2 and build up of algae. Normally would do 50% or less.


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## Antipofish (3 Nov 2012)

Cool, well good luck. Let me know if you find some at a good price   Are both your red dwarf gourami male  ? (im suspecting they are as the females are drab).  If they are red dwarf neon gourami they will have a good chance of fighting to the death eventually.  The red variety of honey gourami are much less aggressive (and generally healthier).  Just something else to watch out for.  Platy's can have a tendency to eat plants.  And Cherry barbs should not be kept as a single fish.  They are used to being in a shoal.


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## Clifford (3 Nov 2012)

And a quick search of this forum reveals all manner of cunning solutions involving pumps and hosepipes that mean you don't end up carrying those Jerry cans around the house.

I've used those big brewing buckets in the past and dropping 25l of water on the floor when the handle breaks does not endear one to the domestic authorities.


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Nov 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Cliff is right, 90L is a lot of buckets



If your s big Jessie  :silent:  200ltrs a week by bucket on mine. I quite enjoy it


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## oddn0ise (3 Nov 2012)

I'm sad to admit it, but I too enjoy lugging 12-15 buckets a week. Bought a large kids plastic bucket, which increases the capacity of my sink to 35litres, leave it for a few hours with Nutrafin Aqua Plus in and then syphon back into buckets and then into the tank. The old water is very good for the garden too...


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## Antipofish (3 Nov 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL yes but you are just weird   MY back cant take lugging that around.


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Nov 2012)

That must be from moving all those lights and filters around you never use


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## RolyMo (4 Nov 2012)

Gents. Thanks for all the ideas. 

I will now go and research Jerry Cans, and other non wife and fish upsetting systems of getting warmer water into the tank in these cold months. Will also look at RO. Although without a pump I am wondering how I going to hold a 25 litre can high enough to siphon down into the tank. 

Antipofish. Yes the Gouramis were sold to me as Red Dwarf Gouramis. Male yes. So far they have very placid. In some cases hiding amongst the flora. 

24 hours on and no other signs of stress from the fish. 

Thank you for all your comments and pointers.


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## Antipofish (4 Nov 2012)

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> That must be from moving all those lights and filters around you never use



Haahaa. Wanna buy a Rena XP2 ?


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## rebus (4 Nov 2012)

Hi, I've found the local outdoor/ camping shops are usually the cheapest place to pick up 25LT water cans. I do a 75LT water change, and its really no trouble, just 3 trips to the tap. With a bit of trial and error and a thermometer i worked out how much hot water needed to be put into the can first, marked that height on the side of the can with a permanent marker and filled up the rest of the can with with cold. So subsequent water changes are as easy as hot water to the mark, the rest filled with cold. 

As for holding it above your head to siphon the water in   i just pop the  container on top of a step ladder and let the siphon hose do its work   

Stu.


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## RolyMo (4 Nov 2012)

Stu
Awesome. 
Thanks for the practical insights there. I must admit I had marked the inside of my bucket with Litre marks so doing it on a 25ltr makes sense.


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## GHNelson (4 Nov 2012)

Hi gang
Best method purchase a cheap pump from ebay that accepts a piece of long tubing and pump the water out the tank...to the garden/sink/loo.
Purchase a tub that fits in the sink fill with said approx temperature add dechlorinator stick the pump in and the end of the tube in the aquarium switch on hardly any water spillage from using this method.
hoggie


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## Ady34 (4 Nov 2012)

Hi Roly,
you could also buy a liquid transfer pump to pump the water from your jerry cans....about £12 from outdoor/camping shops or online if your step ladders arnt that tall!


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2012)

I bought a couple of 40l buckets for £3 each from Asda to speed up water changes.

First I syphon water out of my 180l tank using gravel cleaner into a yellow 40l bucket. Use a yellow bucket so you can easily see anything you shouldn't have syphoned out, eg fish !!!

I then pump this water onto front lawn, via window, using a JBL 750 pump and short length of hose. I empty half the tank this way. Also fill a standard bucket whilst at it to rinse sponges, filters etc.

In the kitchen I fill two other 40l buckets with cold water, hot kettle water and dechlorinator and use the pump to pump it into the tank via a length of hose pipe. I have to do this as my hot water supply is ion exchange water softened and not suitable for fish tanks. The pump in the kitchen is on a radio controlled socket so I can turn the pumping off when tank is full. Also pumps quicker if buckets are on a work top rather then the floor as less differential height to pump.

Recently I have taken to using cold water straight from the kitchen cold tap as it makes water changes even quicker. Tank temp drops from 26 odd to 20 odd, but fish don't seem bothered, so will probably carry on this way.


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## RolyMo (5 Nov 2012)

Thanks Ian_m for sharing that.
It is fast becoming clear that I need a pump, and some additional hosing. Now you make the point about the large buckets, I know exactly what you mean. I have some used for kids garden toy storage!! Hmmmm
Appreciate you sharing that.
Cheers
R


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## ian_m (5 Nov 2012)

A yellow bucket is the important thing, as the with the blue and black ones you can't see syphoned out fish swimming around.

I think I have the JBL u750 pump and standard B&Q cheapy hosepipe easily pushes over the pump outlet so no clips needed to hold pipe, and also easy to swap around. The pump also has suckers and sticks easily to inside of the 40l buckets.

I use some clamps like these to hold the hose pipe to the tank, bucket, sink etc whilst pumping.




http://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-steel-spring-clamp-6-pack-of-2/33525


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (5 Nov 2012)

Another alternative is the JBL Clipsafe


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