# Aquarium Vs. Landlord



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

Apologies if this is the wrong section to post this query. Please delete if not allowed. I needed some advice. 

I live in a rented property and we faced a bit of mould due to an incorrectly fixed door(draft coming through the gaps).
My landlord is adamant that it is due to the rimless aquarium! 😢 It's a 100 litre aquarium.

I have suggested that I get a lid for it but the landlord isnt happy with that either. Is there any way to assure the landlord or is it now just a matter of getting rid of the tank till I move house 😔?
Really upset about this! Any suggestion will be helpful 🙏🏻


----------



## Nick potts (25 Jan 2022)

Unfortunately, it sounds like the landlord won't be happy till it's gone. Did you get anything in writing about pets/fishtank?


----------



## PremierFantasy88 (25 Jan 2022)

I was in a similar situation when I rented and it was a struggle to get their agreement initially to allow me to have a tank inside the property

It was only resolved when all parties agreed for a stipulation to be added to the tenancy agreement that I would be liable for any damages that may be caused as a result of anything 'going wrong'... nothing did

I've currently not been in the hobby for 18+ months (moved back home with parents to save the last bit for deposit) but have bought a property and due to complete in April.... I can't work out if I'm more excited that I've bought a property or that I will be able to get back into the hobby 🤷

Hope things work out for you


----------



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

Nick potts said:


> Unfortunately, it sounds like the landlord won't be happy till it's gone. Did you get anything in writing about pets/fishtank?


Yes Nick. Seems so! Contract says no pets but nothing specific about aquariums. I suppose its classified as a pet 🤔. Its fair though as if he feels its damaging to his property then I understand. Theres never been an issue with it the last 5 years but a silly handyman said that the tank is a major source of condensation so he has reacted.
My contracts till July so I guess its a goodbye to the landlord after that! Just hoping there are landlords that will allow a fish tank else I just gotta leave the hobby.


----------



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

PremierFantasy88 said:


> I was in a similar situation when I rented and it was a struggle to get their agreement initially to allow me to have a tank inside the property
> 
> It was only resolved when all parties agreed for a stipulation to be added to the tenancy agreement that I would be liable for any damages that may be caused as a result of anything 'going wrong'... nothing did
> 
> ...


Congrats on the property! I could only imagine how you must feel. A good home and a good tank 🙂
I kinda knew that it was over when the landlord spoke to me but just thought I'd check if anyone else was in a similar situation. (Misery likes company 😔).


----------



## PremierFantasy88 (25 Jan 2022)

Worshiper said:


> Yes Nick. Seems so! Contract says no pets but nothing specific about aquariums. I suppose its classified as a pet 🤔. Its fair though as if he feels its damaging to his property then I understand. Theres never been an issue with it the last 5 years but a silly handyman said that the tank is a major source of condensation so he has reacted.
> My contracts till July so I guess its a goodbye to the landlord after that! Just hoping there are landlords that will allow a fish tank else I just gotta leave the hobby.


To be honest I think most of what I said in my post is irrelevant now as although I never had any issues with my landlord if they had been advised that my tank was a major source of condensation as is your situation I have no doubt the tank would've had to go...

It's just one of the downsides to renting unfortunately but there are definitely landlords out there that there won't have a problem with it IMO


----------



## tam (25 Jan 2022)

To be honest, I'd be inclined to agree with the landlord/handyman. An open top container full of warm water evaporating could certainly contribute. Maybe look at ways you could mitigate e.g. you might suggest that you add a lid and purchase a dehumidifier and then the landlord reinspects in 3 months time and if that has resolved it the tank can stay.


----------



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

Thank you all for your replies. The tank will go into storage till we move house. I have to honour the landlords request not just out of necessity but of principle.

Aquarium - 0   Landlord - 1
😀


----------



## hypnogogia (25 Jan 2022)

Worshiper said:


> Contract says no pets but nothing specific about aquariums


Change it to plant only “see, no pets Mr Landlord”.


----------



## Garuf (25 Jan 2022)

Worshiper said:


> Thank you all for your replies. The tank will go into storage till we move house. I have to honour the landlords request not just out of necessity but of principle.
> 
> Aquarium - 0   Landlord - 1
> 😀


I had to leave the hobby because of landlords. Given the state of the world, I suspect it’s the same for an awful lot of us without the ability to purchase.


----------



## Stucks_ (25 Jan 2022)

Sounds like a convenient excuse to me tbh, but as you say, it is the landlord house in the end.


----------



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

Garuf said:


> I had to leave the hobby because of landlords. Given the state of the world, I suspect it’s the same for an awful lot of us without the ability to purchase.


So true Garuf.


----------



## Worshiper (25 Jan 2022)

Stucks_ said:


> Sounds like a convenient excuse to me tbh, but as you say, it is the landlord house in the end.


Yeah. Funny enough he loved the tank everytime he visited and had one of his own till recently. 
But I respect his decision.


----------



## LondonDragon (25 Jan 2022)

hypnogogia said:


> Change it to plant only “see, no pets Mr Landlord”.


Remove the water and turn it into a terrarium/vivarium  no issue then! get a lid add some frogs!


----------



## Andy Taylor (26 Jan 2022)

Keep the tank and get a new Landlord


----------



## Worshiper (26 Jan 2022)

Andy Taylor said:


> Keep the tank and get a new Landlord


If wishes were horses ...... 😉


----------



## PARAGUAY (26 Jan 2022)

It's obvious nothing to do with aquarium. You know the landlord best you could offer to pay(l know) for a report from a surveyor to get what's really causing the issue. Biggest cause is lack of air circulation or insulation pushed in cavity's. Or caused by condensation as you get in kitchens. If the landlord open to your offer you could ask rethink on keeping your tank and show examples of aquaria in dentists doctors surgery's hospitals etc to prove the point. You know the landlord though so best to keep a friendly approach. My daughter just had to report rising damp in her rented house the landlady gave her free month normally 600 pound calendar month and got damp proof survey in quick. Good luck


----------



## Worshiper (27 Jan 2022)

PARAGUAY said:


> It's obvious nothing to do with aquarium. You know the landlord best you could offer to pay(l know) for a report from a surveyor to get what's really causing the issue. Biggest cause is lack of air circulation or insulation pushed in cavity's. Or caused by condensation as you get in kitchens. If the landlord open to your offer you could ask rethink on keeping your tank and show examples of aquaria in dentists doctors surgery's hospitals etc to prove the point. You know the landlord though so best to keep a friendly approach. My daughter just had to report rising damp in her rented house the landlady gave her free month normally 600 pound calendar month and got damp proof survey in quick. Good luck


Thanks Paraguay.


----------



## Worshiper (29 Jan 2022)

Okay so the landlord has after much deliberation agreed to my first suggestion of getting a lid if I want to keep the aquarium. Really happy with this as atleast I dont have to leave the hobby!

Now the only requirement is that it has to be a tight lid. Any suggestions on this?
I googled perspex sheets but they will need drilled holes and wont be a tight fit due to being a rimless.
The tank is a rimless 80cm by 40cm.


----------



## Hufsa (29 Jan 2022)

Im not sure this is the answer youre looking for @Worshiper but you can buy clips to put on the edge of rimless tanks that allow you to rest a cover on it. Your tank cannot have a vacuum sealed lid, if that is what the landlord is hoping for when he says a tight lid, there needs to be gaseous exchange. But a tank mostly covered by a lid with a few holes and minor openings will be perfectly ok. The humidity will deposit on the lid before the rest of the air makes its way out the holes, if that makes sense. We live in a very damp apartment, and I have to keep my tank covered for this reason. Leaving just one flap open will make the room noticeably humid, but a few small holes, no problem.


----------



## Dobert (29 Jan 2022)

For my quarantine tank I needed a cheap transparent lid and bought a polycarbonate sheet. I was able to cut it myself and serves the purpose


----------



## Worshiper (29 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Im not sure this is the answer youre looking for @Worshiper but you can buy clips to put on the edge of rimless tanks that allow you to rest a cover on it. Your tank cannot have a vacuum sealed lid, if that is what the landlord is hoping for when he says a tight lid, there needs to be gaseous exchange. But a tank mostly covered by a lid with a few holes and minor openings will be perfectly ok. The humidity will deposit on the lid before the rest of the air makes its way out the holes, if that makes sense. We live in a very damp apartment, and I have to keep my tank covered for this reason. Leaving just one flap open will make the room noticeably humid, but a few small holes, no problem.



Thanks Hufsa. I saw these online. I can only try. According to me no lid can be air tight for an aquarium with livestock so this may be the best option.


----------



## Yugang (30 Jan 2022)

Worshiper said:


> The tank is a rimless 80cm by 40cm.


An (electric)  dehumidifier will easily suck up more water than your tank can evaporate at room temp. A lid will help, but as @Hufsa says need some exchange as well.


----------



## tam (30 Jan 2022)

For a lid that looks tight, I would probably go with perspex, use a separate rectange piece(s) to go around your pipework if it's complicated. Then a panel over the top resting on the rim, with cut outs to overlap your rectangles. Then add a lip at the front (and optionally the two sides) only needs to be 1cm coming down. That will give you a pretty good fitting lid that doesn't look terrible and looks like it will do the job to a landlord. I wouldn't worried about accidentally sealing it too much, plenty of the kit tanks have well fitting lids or go back a few years glass cover panes with just small a notch for electrics with no issues. If you are really worried add an airline to circulate outside air in.


----------



## PARAGUAY (31 Jan 2022)

Good result with your landlord@Worshiper under circumstances.


----------



## Worshiper (31 Jan 2022)

PARAGUAY said:


> Good result with your landlord@Worshiper under circumstances.


Thanks Paraguay!


----------



## Worshiper (31 Jan 2022)

tam said:


> For a lid that looks tight, I would probably go with perspex, use a separate rectange piece(s) to go around your pipework if it's complicated. Then a panel over the top resting on the rim, with cut outs to overlap your rectangles. Then add a lip at the front (and optionally the two sides) only needs to be 1cm coming down. That will give you a pretty good fitting lid that doesn't look terrible and looks like it will do the job to a landlord. I wouldn't worried about accidentally sealing it too much, plenty of the kit tanks have well fitting lids or go back a few years glass cover panes with just small a notch for electrics with no issues. If you are really worried add an airline to circulate outside air in.


Thanks Tam. I have been looking at perspex sheets for lids. There's a shop on ebay that cuts, shapes and polishes them so be worth having a chat with them.


----------



## Konsa (31 Jan 2022)

Hi
I will be reluctant to use Perspex or acrylic as a lid.
If not thick enough it can warp(spelling)/bend from the moisture and its own weight.It really dislikes moisture when used as lid.
I rather have glass covers.
Regards Konstantin


----------



## MirandaB (31 Jan 2022)

I use the twinwall polycarbonate sheeting on a lot of my tanks which doesn't warp or bend.
It's lightweight and easy to cut but I'd recommend sanding the cut edges as they can be quite sharp.


----------



## zozo (31 Jan 2022)

Worshiper said:


> bit of mould due to an incorrectly fixed door(draft coming through the gaps).



A question that comes to mind is, where is the mould? I guess it will be somewhere in/on a plastered wall.

I suspect this gap under the door unlikely will be the cause and probably neither is your open-top tank. It would be advisable to consult a construction professional and let them have a look. Or get a cheap moisture meter to detect the % of moisture in the wall(s)... On average the acceptable percentage of moisture in a wall should be between 5% and 12% anything higher is a concern and requires some investigation.

Anyway, a draft is actually a form of ventilation that usually prevents the development of mould. Thus mould is more likely caused by bad ventilation, if this would be from evaporating water in the house condensing on the wall then the wall should be rather dripping wet. A heated fish tank with 100 litres volume maybe evaporate 1 litre per day on averagely. That ain't that much compared with the volume of the room it is in and unlike to be enough to get the walls wet in a sufficient ventilated house.

But rising dampness in the walls from groundwater or a wall that has no cavity and has driving rain hitting it or another leak from above will soak and stay wet long term. And this is the most common recipe for mould development.

The landlord most likely knows this already, not willing to fix it and the easy way out if he gets the chance is to disguise it and use the tenant as a lightning rod. Not that i want to jump to conclusions, but at least ask a professional second opinion before you put the blame on yourself.


----------



## dw1305 (31 Jan 2022)

Hi all,


MirandaB said:


> I use the twinwall polycarbonate sheeting on a lot of my tanks which doesn't warp or bend.


I use <"this as well">. We <"have a thread">, where Marcel (@zozo) has a post with neat options for <"covering the cut ends">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Driftless (31 Jan 2022)

I am both a hobbyist and I own apartment buildings and single-family rentals; I have had extensive water damage to buildings in the past.  I can see both sides of this discussion and I would have to know and trust the tenant well before allowing an aquarium.  That said I think the landlord is being petty about the mold and should do mitigation, one aquarium is not going to cause mold.


----------



## Worshiper (31 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> A question that comes to mind is, where is the mould? I guess it will be somewhere in/on a plastered wall.
> 
> I suspect this gap under the door unlikely will be the cause and probably neither is your open-top tank. It would be advisable to consult a construction professional and let them have a look. Or get a cheap moisture meter to detect the % of moisture in the wall(s)... On average the acceptable percentage of moisture in a wall should be between 5% and 12% anything higher is a concern and requires some investigation.
> 
> ...


I agree Zozo. The landlord has finally said that they arent blaming the tank but looking for all options to be considered. I think this is fair tbh as its their property.
They will get a new door fixed with trickly vents which will defo help. I am happy if the lid solution keeps them happy and I can keep the tank. Considering theres dialogue happening between both of us we can surely come up with some sort of win win outcome. Just being optimistic as I have another 6 months on the contract and will move after that as I know this isnt the last I have heard about the tank Im sure ☹.


----------



## zozo (1 Feb 2022)

Worshiper said:


> The landlord has finally said that they arent blaming the tank but looking for all options to be considered.



A common slumlord characteristic is to have a look around to find arguments to downplay and redirect their own responsibilities... In our country, we call them literally translated House Milkers. I guess it's a worldwide issue since about every language has a slang term for the same practices.



Worshiper said:


> I think this is fair tbh as its their property.


Indeed the argument to minimize the risk of constructional water damage to the property is a valid argument. In case of an unfortunate accident, 100 litres of water can cause a lot of significant damage. I'm not sure if you can take insurance to cover the risks in the aquarium hobby. Most insurance companies are worst than slumlords and promise you the moon and then when the sh%t hits the fan they have rather a lot lower case characters in their clause saying something different. I guess that's also a worldwide issue, with insurance companies you are at risk only to be assured of running into a wall of contradictions when you need them.


----------



## zozo (1 Feb 2022)

A short story comes to mind that happened last year about 6 months ago a mile away down hill from my place. An older couple did spend their lifetime pension savings to buy a monumental old water mill and rebuild it into a B&B. Not long after they were done rebuilding the unfortunate happened.




They thought they had assurance against water damage and made the claim... But the insurance company said, No, because one overlooked word was added in the clause, that stated damage created by "Vertical" water. And this damage obviously is from "Horizontal" water.
Sorry invalid claim, they got ZIP!?... Pension savings are gone and left with an estimated €150.000 damage. Now they have to go to court to dispute the insurance companies vertical water interpretation.

Only one word says they were only insured for water damage from a leaking roof while it rains. Sorry, all other options are not covered.


----------



## Worshiper (1 Feb 2022)

zozo said:


> A short story comes to mind that happened last year about 6 months ago a mile away down hill from my place. An older couple did spend their lifetime pension savings to buy a monumental old water mill and rebuild it into a B&B. Not long after they were done rebuilding the unfortunate happened.
> 
> View attachment 181242
> They thought they had assurance against water damage and made the claim... But the insurance company said, No, because one overlooked word was added in the clause, that stated only damage created by "Vertical" water. And this damage obviously is from "Horizontal" water.
> ...


I briefly worked for a car insurance broker and this is so true. The brokers are salespeople that just want to get their commission by selling. But the companies never pay out in event of an accident!

On another note when I looked at the pic I just thought if it was my landlord he wouldve said that a leak in the aquarium may have caused that flooding 😂


----------



## PARAGUAY (2 Feb 2022)

zozo said:


> A short story comes to mind that happened last year about 6 months ago a mile away down hill from my place. An older couple did spend their lifetime pension savings to buy a monumental old water mill and rebuild it into a B&B. Not long after they were done rebuilding the unfortunate happened.
> 
> View attachment 181242
> They thought they had assurance against water damage and made the claim... But the insurance company said, No, because one overlooked word was added in the clause, that stated damage created by "Vertical" water. And this damage obviously is from "Horizontal" water.
> ...


They should go public with a statement about the insurance companys ridicoulus  way of rejecting a genuine claim and put it out there and the company would lose more than the money they should have payed out. Anything like Resolver or Martin Lewis website in your country @zozo


----------



## zozo (2 Feb 2022)

PARAGUAY said:


> They should go public with a statement about the insurance companys ridicoulus  way of rejecting a genuine claim and put it out there and the company would lose more than the money they should have payed out. Anything like Resolver or Martin Lewis website in your country @zozo



As far as I know, it went public in regional sources I guess yet it ain't conclusive enough to go public nationally. There also is crowdfunding going on to give the victims the first start and a helping hand in redecorating the place. But the €15.000 collected at the time is just a drop on a hot plate.  

At the time the lawyers are still busy with a tug of war.  It's again a typical case of jurisprudence and hiding behind the interpretation of one simple word... But never the less it is disheartening especially for a hard-working older couple losing everything overnight and on top of that the insurance company is giving them a hard time to get rightfully compensated. Insurance companies are all sneaky backstabbing crooks and will try and do everything not to pay up if they see the slightest chance to avoid it. As said above you will most likely be assured to end up with headage when you need them. 

I guess it will be a lengthy tug of war that ends up in a settlement to get only partially refunded. They will brut force them to agree with less or go to court which takes much longer (years). The insurance company has a much longer breath than an already devastated older couple.


----------



## PARAGUAY (2 Feb 2022)

Some years ago a chap told me of  the property company were for years he paid his annual groundrent to had sent him a letter saying he had to have building/contents insurance with their recommended company. As he used a reputable company for years he wondered why? On checking internet we found  they had become part invested / owners with their recommended of insurer. So they were forcing him use them without being transparent about their interest. Conversation with the gov.uk and then Gov Leasehold authority and advised they couldn't force him to do that so told the property company were to go and written apology followed . Sneaky treatment but how many houseowners got similar letters and changed thinking they had to? The old adage true here all they want is your money


----------

