# Lost beginner



## darrensp (29 Jul 2016)

Hi guys

I'm new on here and struggling with plants and algae tank has been up and running over a year but have always struggled

I have a 48"L x24"h x18"w tank

2 fluval 406 filters with coarse and medium sponges ceramic rings and some bio balls

Two 54w fluorescents possibly h.o? 3 on 5off 3on

Have been dosing tnc complete 4ml per day (also have trace but don't dose) 50% weekly water change cleaning alternating filters

Substrate Is tetra complete mixed with gravel

I have Anubis tied to driftwood which has bba,
Amazon swords? Which has a kind of thin black algae like dust almost but stubborn to remove,
ludwigia repens which gets coated in bga , p.helferi which struggles also gets bga,
Alternanthera Rosaefolia Gets the same algae as the swords but bga also
Also have some green cabomba which does ok and some Java moss just been added.
I get bga on the substrate too

I know this sounds like a lot of plants but really there isn't because I've lost so much and barely have any left because I keep getting beat by algae

I have an Api liquid test kit and api 5 in 1 strips.

Just looking for some help/advice


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## zozo (29 Jul 2016)

Probably, light related, to intense and or to long in periode.. It's a game play to begin with, which you probaly had (wrong) from the beginning to anticipate with the light to the plants needs and growrate. In my case BBA is always light related and could aslo be excess in ammonia.. BGA actualy also is light related and excess of organic waste, like to much  feeding and or bad cleaning and dirty substrate. All 3 factors can cause higher ammonia levels, all 3 factors can induce BBA and BGA growth.. BGA likes to build up in high light places, at the glass in the substrate or on the glass at the top even of top plant leaves. BBA dito, likes to build up at high light areas, e.g filter outletm top leave edges or even as you already state where enough light hits the substrate and if this substrate is dirty even more. 

Giving the tank less light to dim it and or reduse the periode and good husbandry, it will in time reduce.

When algae slowly gets under controll and plants get cleaner and grow bigger you slowly could up the light again, depending on plant spieces and goals it might not be needed. That's often a personal preference.

BGA is easy, to clean out and is not realy attaching itself it's a bacteria (slime coat) feeding on light and organic waste. So reducing both prevents it from comming back once it is cleaned out. BBA is rather agressive and attaches itself to plants and hardscape.. Heavily infected leaves are best trimmed off.. Hardscape which can be taken out the tank can be cleaned. Everything not removable can be spot treated with Liquid carbon or peroxide. These a remedies to start cleaning it out for a start. To prevent it from growing back as fast as you remove it is reducing lights. Peroxide is also very active and fast against BGA, also kills BBA it will turn red after a day or 2 and it tells you its dead.

Search the algae section of this forum how to spot treat and or dose liquid carbon as algicide. There are many articles to find with very good information.


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## darrensp (29 Jul 2016)

Hi thanks for the reply

Today was water change day which I done 50% as I usually do and I thoroughly hoovered the substrate as I do every week.

I measured my ammonia which was low <0.25ppm as indicated test was lighter in colour than 0 but not as dark as 0.25

I have since removed one of my light tubes so now have 1 t5 54w with reflector still with the same 3hours on 5off 3on light schedule 

Should I keeps dosing tnc complete at 4ml per day or change dosing? 

I would post a pic using my iPhone if I knew how 

Thanks
Darren


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## Nelson (29 Jul 2016)

I wouldn't have a break in the lights.Just have them on for 5 or 6 hours for now.
Are you using Co2 ?.


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## zozo (29 Jul 2016)

Me too i'm with Neil on that one, keep 'm on for a 5 to 8 hour periode this even can be made 10 if you have the proper intensity. But this depends on the plants you are growing. SOme plants need higher intensity,so then shorter period, low light plants lower intensity and can have a longer periode. Like i have all low light plants in the high tech and have 10 hour periode reasonably dimmed.. Have a low tech lit by daylight, so it gets all day light which is over 16 hours at the moment, relativily free of algae. 

Dimming can be accomplished to use dimmable drivers for tube lights or hanging the hights higher above the tank.. @J Art has a podcast, he also does photography and gave the tip (A very nice one) "In the photography hobby shop you can buy translucent sheets to filter light (to lower the intensity), these come in different denseties, so these are a very nice option to put in front of the tube lights or place on the glass cover panels if you have. You could take a set of different shades and find the right intesity for you setup. And or slowely up the intensity again if your plants require this.

Forgot which one it was
http://aquascapingpodcast.com/
but just listen them all can't hurt.. 

If you have only 3 hours of light with a 5 hour brake and 3 hours of light again.. My best guess is, it is far to much in intensity.. 

I can't answer the TNC question, don't know the stuff.. But 4ml a day on 48 litre seems a bit much if it is what i think it is..


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## darrensp (29 Jul 2016)

Thanks guys will try changing to a single 6 hour photo period 

I am not using co2 can't afford to go buy a pressurised system and tnc Carbon seems to melt my p.helferi which I would really love to grow


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## Tim Harrison (29 Jul 2016)

Definitely too higher light intensity to start with, see how you got with just 1 bulb...
An alternative is to introduce some floaters and generally increase plant biomass.


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## Nelson (30 Jul 2016)

Have you got a photo,and whats your fish stock.


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## Andy Thurston (30 Jul 2016)

With tnc complete if you add the weekly dose printed on the bottle three times per week then this is the equivalent of EI dosing


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## Manisha (30 Jul 2016)

Hi Darren, nothing useful to add except your tank seems more shallow than the average four foot tank so I'm sure looks spectacular. When you get your light right, I'm sure will look amazing ☺



Big clown said:


> With tnc complete if you add the weekly dose printed on the bottle three times per week then this is the equivalent of EI dosing



Hi big clown, sorry to hijack, but I wondered if dosing tnc complete three times a week as per the recommended dose achieves EI levels of dosing, should this be reduced if you are running a low tech without co2 enrichment?


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## Andy Thurston (30 Jul 2016)

Manisha said:


> Hi Darren, nothing useful to add except your tank seems more shallow than the average four foot tank so I'm sure looks spectacular. When you get your light right, I'm sure will look amazing ☺
> 
> 
> 
> Hi big clown, sorry to hijack, but I wondered if dosing tnc complete three times a week as per the recommended dose achieves EI levels of dosing, should this be reduced if you are running a low tech without co2 enrichment?



Yes if you just use the bottle dose once a week then this will be more than enough for a low tech


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## darrensp (30 Jul 2016)

Hi guys thanks very much it's great to see so many replies I do have some pictures but need to figure out how to upload them as I know it will help a great deal with this 

My fish stock is roughly: ( not home at the moment) 
10 phantom tetras
20 harlequin rasbora
6 rummy nose tetras
6 glow light tetras
15 zebra danios
1 peppered cory ( I know I should have more but only have one left out of 6)
I also have one ruby shark 

Manisha I think you might possibly have misread the dimensions of the tank it is 24" deep


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## Manisha (30 Jul 2016)

darrensp said:


> Manisha I think you might possibly have misread the dimensions of the tank it is 24" deep



Whoops!


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## Chrispowell (30 Jul 2016)

darrensp said:


> Hi guys thanks very much it's great to see so many replies I do have some pictures but need to figure out how to upload them as I know it will help a great deal with this
> 
> My fish stock is roughly: ( not home at the moment)
> 10 phantom tetras
> ...




To post images you have two options..

Download tapatalk forum app in the App Store, log in and I'm sure there is an option there to post a pic in your reply.

Use a free image hosting site and then copy and paste one of the thumbnail links into your reply.. 

I use https://postimage.org, quite simple to do that way. Good luck


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## darrensp (30 Jul 2016)

upload img
Fingers crossed this works


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## darrensp (30 Jul 2016)

The pictures are quite small wasn't sure what size to make them


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## Andy Thurston (30 Jul 2016)

make them bigger next time 
I would say More Plants will help with your algae.  and as others have said less light


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## rebel (30 Jul 2016)

Fill that tank with plants! That gives you a better chance against algae.


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## darrensp (31 Jul 2016)

I do realise I need more plants in there but have been off work due to injury for 3 months now so can't afford to buy much at the moment.

I have a second small tank which I am trying to grow some stuff out in and is going well albeit slowly. It is only 2 weeks old and from tiny trimmings although the Java moss ball in there is doing great and I'm hoping to take more and more from there I have already been taking bits and tying it onto the piece of wood I have in the big tank

Do you think I could get away with trimming and replanting the cabomba which I don't seem to have much trouble with for now until I am in a position to do so?


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## rebel (31 Jul 2016)

You certainly can trim and replant. Otherwise need to reduce light. algae has upperhand otherwise.


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## zozo (31 Jul 2016)

Then Elodea or Egeria is one of your best options, the cheapest beginner plants around.. You don't even need to plant it in the substrate. Just throw it in and let it float it grows equaly well in many conditions and perfect as temporary plantmass alternative.. Actualy a matter of taste of course, but a nice healthy bush of elodea is quite atractive as well. Depending on where it's bought in pond shops it usualy is Elodea canadensis and in aquarium or pet stores Egeria densa both often offered as just Elodea or pondweed. 

It grows like crazy there for it's so cheap and a once in a life time buy if you wish.. So you do not need to buy a lot and it doesn't take much patience till you have enough or maybe even to much..


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## darrensp (31 Jul 2016)

Ok so today I have trimmed and replanted some cabomba to try and help my situation for now and this is what it looks like






image hosting over 5mb

As per everyone's advice I have reduced the lighting to one tube with reflector with a single 5  hour period, I am continuing dosing 4ml tnc complete daily and have done another 50% water change. Will continue large water changes for the next couple of weeks to try and keep algae down.

I will also look at my budget and see what I can realistically afford to buy plant wise


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## Nelson (31 Jul 2016)

I'm at work and can't see the pics to great,but if the wood is still covered with BBA,maybe take it out and clean it.
I can send you some emersed cuttings if you want.Will be random plants .
PM me your address if interested.


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## darrensp (31 Jul 2016)

Hi nelson I've been scrubbing at it a while and it's very stubborn stuff although each time I do get a bit more off of it,

I am interested in your offer of cuttings what would I do with emerged cuttings? 

Do you think they would be better off floating for a bit in the second tank I set up which doesn't have algae problem?


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## Nelson (31 Jul 2016)

I'd just plant them in your tank and see how they do.You could leave some floating.


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## rebel (31 Jul 2016)

Speaking of floating, any floating plants would also help too. Frog bit or whatever else is available where you are....


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## darrensp (31 Jul 2016)

rebel said:


> Speaking of floating, any floating plants would also help too. Frog bit or whatever else is available where you are....



That's one of the things I had thought about but wasn't sure what I was likely to find or wether it would be suitable e.g from a pond/reservoir/loch etc.


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## darrensp (5 Aug 2016)

Hi guys  A big big thank you goes to nelson who provided me with some nice plants to help fill up my tank 

Maintenance just now is 50% daily water change and e.i dosing 

You can click on the pictures to make them bigger










image uploader


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## darrensp (7 Aug 2016)

Hi folk
I'm looking for help with the names of the new plants

I think I have ludwigia palustrus, bacopa?, rotala rotundifolia "ceylon" and hydroctyle tripartita and the others I'm clueless


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## Nelson (7 Aug 2016)

The one's from me are probably,

Rotala sp Yao Yai
Rotala sp Green
Ludwgia sp 'Mini Super Red'
Myriophyllum matogrossense
Hydrocotyle Tripartita
and this, http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/id.39524/


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## Nelson (7 Aug 2016)

Oops,and,

Azolla caroliniana
Limnobium laevigatum


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## darrensp (7 Aug 2016)

Thanks Neil I'm just curious that's all things seem to be doing well.

I rigged up some diy co2 on the small grow out tank using the silicone airline and check valve I had sitting there from when I removed my air pump from my main tank though with a 15w tube not sure how well it will do, grow out tank has soil capped with gravel, ei dosing with tnc complete and diy co2 into filter inlet, drop checker showing lime green/yellow.


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## darrensp (17 Aug 2016)

Hi guys I was wondering if I should use a twin spray bar set up and do away with the standard fluval 406 outlets for better flow in my tank or stick with what I have and add a powerhead?


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## Nelson (21 Aug 2016)

Hows it going Darren ?.
You could have a spray bar going the length of the tank .


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## darrensp (26 Aug 2016)

Still off work so not good, however tank is doing ok but growth is slow but I have a 5hr light period  one t5 and have now since removed the reflector and things seem to be better but still bga on substrate in the centre due to sunlight I think, water changes are every two days 50% removing hardware, scrubbing the glass and cleaning filter sponges trying to reduce organic matter

The small tank I set up with diy co2 is doing great the small amount of cuttings I put in there have bulked up and is now ready for cutting and replanting which should fill the remaining space in that tank and I'll let it grow out again and use it to increase plant stock in my bigger tank.


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## darrensp (26 Aug 2016)

free pic

There you go nelson my small tank from 8th Aug - 22nd Aug


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## Nelson (26 Aug 2016)

Well that seems to be working .


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## darrensp (26 Aug 2016)

Yes it works very well

two differences really compared to big tank one it has compost capped with gravel and co2

I have managed to sell a few things I no longer use around the house and have today bought myself a co2 kit from co2art with an 80mn diffuser.
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...products/advance-complete-aquarium-co2-system

I would have liked to have bought the kit with better reg, inline atomiser and ph controller but that will have to wait until I can get back to work and I can use this kit on my small tank or sell it on later

P.s could a mod move this to journals please as  I would like to keep updating this for other people to see me moving (hopefully) forward with my tanks and let other begginers see the issues I've been having


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