# Surface scum



## spookyspike (8 Apr 2012)

Hi guys. Not sure if this is the right section but hopefully someone can offer some help. I seem to suffer terribly with the worst surface scum I've seen.

The tank is 30l, dosing excel daily, lighting is an 18w pc. Filter is an internal fluval but this will be changing to a much bigger canister in a few days. 

In the tank are 4 dwarf puffers who get fed a small amount twice a day, anubias, java moss, a plant I don't know the name of, vesicularia and azolla. Flow is from the filter and I don't think it is strong enough. I added a 350l power head with spay bar to blast the surface to see if it helped. It did a bit, but it would still gather in the corners. 






Here it is... It's gross! Oh water change is 25% per week using prime. I also feed  APF plant nutrition once a day.

Help!!!


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## darren636 (8 Apr 2012)

what do you feed your dp?


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## Aqua sobriquet (8 Apr 2012)

I used to get that quite a lot and it's not uncommon. Ehiem make a surface skimmer to connect to your intake pipe. ADA also make one. Some folks think the oil content of some fish food contributes to the problem.


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## darren636 (8 Apr 2012)

its coming from somewhere.... Either decaying plant or animal matter surely?


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## Aqua sobriquet (8 Apr 2012)

This is the Ehiem

http://www.zoocentras.lt/eheim-3535-ant ... -1474.html

And the ADA

http://www.adana.co.jp/en/products/na_filter/cleaner/

I think Fluval also make them so surface scum can be a problem.

The old trickle filter systems used to be fed with surface water pouring over a weir grid for the same reason.


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## darren636 (8 Apr 2012)

what wood is that in there?


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## CeeJay (8 Apr 2012)

Hi all

You will see this junk in most planted tanks that do not have surface agitation (or very little).
It comes from a variety of sources mentioned above but it also comes from the plants themselves (proteins etc.), even more so when you have failing plants, because we are growing these plants up to ten times faster than they grow in their natural environment. 
I have two hi tech and one lo tech tank. I sometimes see it in the hi techs but never in the low tech. To get over it I have my spraybars agitate the surface which constantly breaks it up. If all your plants are in good health you will see a marked decrease in the appearance of this 'scum'.
I would up your water change to 50% + per week too. It all helps.


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## spookyspike (8 Apr 2012)

Hi all thanks for the responses. The DPs get fed a variety of frozen foods, but only an amount they can finish in one helping, the wood is Sumatran drift wood. Ceejay thank you for that, I will up the water changes. As said I had 350lph power head with a surface bar and it did help but you could see an oily like film trying to gather still. Hoping the new filter will be here soon. Interesting you say you don't get it in the low tech tank, the tank is fairly low tech. It's horrible tho - is it worth trying to get a surface skimmer do you think or is it better to try fix the issue rather than just mask it?


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## Morgan Freeman (8 Apr 2012)

The higher the light I use the more I've noticed I suffer from this surface scum. In my low tech I don't have any as the plants grow so slowly and I didn't have it in my last slightly higher but still low tech.

A surface skimmer is just a mask IMO.


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## spookyspike (8 Apr 2012)

Is the light to bright do we think to be just dosing excel? The plants in there are all suitable for low tech I think. The reason I got the azolla, I was hoping it would help break it up (it doesn't, it just gets stuck in the scum) and ailso to defuse some light.


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## Aqua sobriquet (8 Apr 2012)

I reckon a surface skimmer can be a useful addition to any open top tank - the ADA ones look nice ...   but if you really don't want one you can try mopping up the scum with kitchen roll till/if it subsides. Float a piece of roll on the surface for a few seconds then scoop it up carefully and bin it.


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## Matt Warner (8 Apr 2012)

The ADA skimmer is a complete rip off IMO. You could spend a £180 on far more useful things for your tank than that. In my experience surface scum comes and can go just as quickly. Regular large water changes seem to help with it.


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## CeeJay (8 Apr 2012)

Hi all


			
				spookyspike said:
			
		

> Interesting you say you don't get it in the low tech tank, the tank is fairly low tech.


Fairly low tech yes, but you're still adding carbon, which puts in the next bracket up from low tech.



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> The higher the light I use the more I've noticed I suffer from this surface scum.


Thanks Morgan Freeman, this is exactly my point. The higher the lighting, the faster the plants grow so they produce more waste  
With higher light comes all the usual problems of more demand for everything like CO2 and ferts, plus their distribution. Get one of these three things wrong and your plants will suffer and your surface scum will increase for sure.


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## spookyspike (9 Apr 2012)

I have floating plants so can't scoop it out. You are right the ADA skimmer is a rip off. I think some large water changes are in order. 
Is there anything else I should be doing I.e upping frets / excel etc? I'm always really cautious about over doing it with carbon dosing.


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## GHNelson (9 Apr 2012)

Hi 
You don't need to pay that sort of money here is one on ebay for £9.00
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISTA-Water-Su ... 25554daa05
Think you can get very similar in black also.
hoggie


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## spookyspike (9 Apr 2012)

Might be worth a punt for £9. Thanks for the link.


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## darren636 (9 Apr 2012)

a healthy tank should not have surface scum. Unless it is leeching from wood and even new equipment can cause issues- but that should pass.


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## spookyspike (9 Apr 2012)

It is a fairly new set up (a couple of weeks), well the filter is out of an old tank which had been running for about 5 months, I used the filter and half the water out the old tank when I set this one up. But substrate and plant were all new. I used tesco molar clay value cat litter for substrate, it was rinsed really well but could it be something leaching out of that? The wood I'd soaked for a month before it went in the tank, it was also in my old tank.


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## Morgan Freeman (9 Apr 2012)

I did have it in my current tank for the first few weeks after adding fish, once it's fully cycled/matured you may find it clears up on it's own.


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## spookyspike (9 Apr 2012)

Hope so as it makes the tank look horrible   . I did a large water change before.


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## Tim Harrison (9 Apr 2012)

Hi have you read this earlier thread on the same subject?

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=19939


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## Antipofish (9 Apr 2012)

spookyspike said:
			
		

> Hope so as it makes the tank look horrible   . I did a large water change before.



Get an ice cream tub.  hold one edge slightly lower than the water surface and slowly let the scum skim into the tub and remove.  It will take about 5 minutes.  Keep doing it and at least you are removing whatever it is, which has to be a bonus     I get it too, but nowhere near as much when I am running purigen in the tank.  It could help you but there's no guarantee.


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## geaves (10 Apr 2012)

I've been reading through this and the other link, have cleared mine using kitchen roll, but mine was a film, looked like a petrol slick on water sort of a bluey colour.


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## Antipofish (10 Apr 2012)

geaves said:
			
		

> I've been reading through this and the other link, have cleared mine using kitchen roll, but mine was a film, looked like a petrol slick on water sort of a bluey colour.



When did you clear it ? Has it had time to come back ? Usually if there is a film, there is a cause.  Until you remove the cause it will usually come back.  Kitchen roll can work but can also be messy if you are not quick, (or use cheap kitchen roll, lol).


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## geaves (10 Apr 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

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Been about 1.5 days...so I'm still hopeful that it doesn't reappear.


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## Morgan Freeman (10 Apr 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> geaves said:
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The cause isn't necessarily the tank itself however, I get an oily film after water changes. After 48hrs it's gone.


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## Aqua sobriquet (10 Apr 2012)

Can you take a picture of the whole tank so we can see what you've got in there?


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## Antipofish (10 Apr 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
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Hey MF thats interesting, so do you reckon its in the water but then your filter clears it out?


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## spookyspike (10 Apr 2012)

Here you go here is what the tank looks like, its only a quick phone snap. 






Did a 50% change yesterday, got rid of as much scum as I could - back today with avengense!


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## Morgan Freeman (10 Apr 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Hey MF thats interesting, so do you reckon its in the water but then your filter clears it out?



I believe so. I rarely make water changes and when I do this oily scum covers around 50% of the tank as soon as I've made the change. 

In my last low tech when I was making water changes weekly it would take up 5 days or so to disappear and by then it's almost water change time! Obviously everybody's local water supply is different but for me I've no doubt this type of oily/petrol slick scum comes from my tap water.


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## Antipofish (10 Apr 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
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Thats a horrid thought !  I guess RO is the only way to overcome that ?


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## GHNelson (10 Apr 2012)

Hi
First thing ive noticed is you have both filter heads below the water line, move one up to break the surface.
hoggie


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## Matt Warner (10 Apr 2012)

> In my last low tech when I was making water changes weekly it would take up 5 days or so to disappear and by then it's almost water change time! Obviously everybody's local water supply is different but for me I've no doubt this type of oily/petrol slick scum comes from my tap water.



I think there is a lot of truth in this and have often thought the same myself. I have surface scum sometimes and then it can just go randomly. It seems to come and go for no obvious reason and without changing a thing in the tank. It doesn't bother me that much when I have it anyway as it is harmless.


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## Antipofish (10 Apr 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi
> First thing ive noticed is you have both filter heads below the water line, move one up to break the surface.
> hoggie



I do mine the same way Hoggie.  Spraybar below the surface.  And I was told this because to have it breaking the surface causes CO2 loss far more quickly.  Is that information still valid ?


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## spyder (10 Apr 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> hogan53 said:
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Yes. You want movement or ripples on the surface but not agitation. Movement without breaking the surface.

In a liquid carbon dosed tank I presume you could get away with more surface agitation as the carbon is not in gas form it won't gas off.


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## hotweldfire (11 Apr 2012)

spookyspike said:
			
		

> Is the light to bright do we think to be just dosing excel? The plants in there are all suitable for low tech I think. The reason I got the azolla, I was hoping it would help break it up (it doesn't, it just gets stuck in the scum) and ailso to defuse some light.



That's interesting. I was getting this really bad but then introduced amazon frogbit and the problem is well and truly gone. Haven't seen it for months but prior to that it looked like the exon valdez had crapped in my tank.


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## spookyspike (11 Apr 2012)

> Hi
> First thing ive noticed is you have both filter heads below the water line, move one up to break the surface.
> hoggie



Hi hoggie, there is only the one filter, I have had it breaking the surface but the flow from the filter isnt strong enough to break it up. I now just have it rippling the surface. I did try power head and spray bar which did help a bit but not very much. 
Its like a white gunge, if I drag my finger through it, it looks like its snowing in the tank and you get a slimmy gunge on my finger. 
I dont think there is enough flow in the tank full stop but im waiting on a new filter (JBL CristalProfi e700 External Filter) which is way OTT but you can adjust the flow. 
How long will the azolla last in a small pot? I was going to skim off the gunk daily but cant do that with the plants on the surface.


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## Antipofish (11 Apr 2012)

spookyspike said:
			
		

> > Hi
> > First thing ive noticed is you have both filter heads below the water line, move one up to break the surface.
> > hoggie
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Just as an aside, I know JBL say you can adjust the flow, but I still think if you adjust it on the outlet you are creating back pressure on the impellor/pump.  As JBL's (at least the new ones I think) have flow controls on both inlet and outlet, you may be well advised to create your flow reduction on the inlet section.  Its just my thoughts and if anyone else reads this and can think of a reason why it would not work, please shout out 

I have an Eheim electronic and the flow is adjusted electronically.  Essentially this must be done by altering the voltage to the pump.  Makes you wonder if a cheap £10 rheostat connected to normal filters would do the same job !?  Anyone with more electronic knowledge than me care to elaborate ?

Sorry if this is a hijack, but I thought it was relevant to your comment on flow and new filter


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## Aqua sobriquet (11 Apr 2012)

At 700L an hour be careful your Puffers don't get flushed out of the tank!


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## spookyspike (11 Apr 2012)

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> At 700L an hour be careful your Puffers don't get flushed out of the tank!



haha... yeah I know im going to throttle it right back, Im putting my own taps on it to restrict it further if there is still to much current in the tank. To be honest im getting the filter for free so not all that bothered about upsetting the impellor. I may have a mess with this antipofish says.


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