# How to make DIY TPN+?



## aaronnorth (19 Sep 2008)

48g Potassium Nitrate
2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
5g Aqua Essentials Trace Elements Mix
0.4g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
500ml distilled water

so i get the above to make it, but do i have to have distilled water? 

and do i mix the whole lot in at once?


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## ceg4048 (19 Sep 2008)

See JamesC All in One Solution

Cheers,


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## aaronnorth (19 Sep 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> See JamesC All in One Solution
> 
> Cheers,




thats where i got the info from, but it doesn say if i have to use distilled water, or whether i can use tap water?


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## ceg4048 (19 Sep 2008)

Paragraph 2 of How Do I Make It States:


```
As an example here is a formulation that could be used:

17g  Potassium Nitrate
3.5g  Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
3.5g  Potassium Sulphate
8.0g  Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
6g  Aqua Essentials Trace Elements Mix
0.5g  E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g  E202 Potassium Sorbate
500ml distilled water
```

Cheers,


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## Egmel (22 Sep 2008)

I make it in batches of 1.5l and I don't use distilled water.  I filter and boil  the water first though (don't forget to allow it to cool otherwise if you're mixing in a pop bottle it can get messy!).  

Seems to last in the bottom of my cupboard happily enough with no settling or things growing in it.  Fish are all fine, though I think my shrimps and snails have had enough of me overdosing the tank recently so am going back to normal dosing levels!


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## jay (6 Oct 2008)

Right so I can get this from AE:
10g  Potassium Nitrate
1.0g  Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
4.0g  Potassium Sulphate
and obviously their trace elements mix.

I can get distilled water no problem. And I'm guessing that epsom salts are the same as what you get from the chemist.

But where do I get:
0.5g  E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g  E202 Potassium Sorbate

??


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## JamesC (6 Oct 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> But where do I get:
> 0.5g  E300 Ascorbic Acid
> 0.2g  E202 Potassium Sorbate


From http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/ or sometimes on eBay

James


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## jay (6 Oct 2008)

mmmmm... brew.  

Cheers fella.


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## jay (6 Oct 2008)

So thishttp://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Ascorbic_acid.jpg

And thishttp://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Potassium_sorbate.jpg

?


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## JamesC (6 Oct 2008)

That's the stuff. Have you looked on ebay as you can normally get it cheaper if it's available.

James


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## jay (6 Oct 2008)

I'll have a look


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## jay (6 Oct 2008)

Right, I'm not really up for mixing enough just for 250-500ml.
Anyone had any experience mixing up litres of this stuff? does it keep?


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## aaronnorth (6 Oct 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> Right, I'm not really up for mixing enough just for 250-500ml.
> Anyone had any experience mixing up litres of this stuff? does it keep?




you can keep it in the fridge to help, and dont keep it in sunlight either.


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## Egmel (7 Oct 2008)

I make 1.5l batches and dose about 10-15ml a day, seems to keep fine in the cupboard under my tank until it runs out.


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## JamesC (7 Oct 2008)

I kept a bottle in the cupboard for six months and it seemed fine. It probably is better to use it quicker than that as I have no real way of knowing what reactions are taking place in the bottle. When iron reacts with phosphate an insoluble precipitate is formed. As long as you don't see this then you can presume that then iron is still locked up in the chelator.

James


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## Egmel (7 Oct 2008)

JamesC said:
			
		

> When iron reacts with phosphate an insoluble precipitate is formed. As long as you don't see this then you can presume that then iron is still locked up in the chelator.


 That's basically what I check for, if there's anything floating or sinking in it!


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## jay (13 Nov 2008)

Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll carry on in this one seeing as its the same subject.
I'm about to start measuring up to make my own TPN+ and I'm just wondering what the epsom salts are for?


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## ceg4048 (13 Nov 2008)

Hi,
   Epsom Salts=MgSO4

Cheers,


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## jay (13 Nov 2008)

Ok then. Thanks.

Thinking I'm just going to make up a 500ml batch at a time. Was hoping to make larger amounts, but all the talk of iron insolubles forming. Sure doing a new batch every couple months won't be any great shakes.


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## aaronnorth (13 Nov 2008)

the ascobic acid should prevent the insoluable iron forming.


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## fishgeek (14 Nov 2008)

will precipitates of iron be unbound by root chemistry i the substrate?

are you only using distilled water to ensure ratios of dissolved elements stay the same ... ie a clean slate

would any old vit c be appropriate?


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## Egmel (14 Nov 2008)

fishgeek said:
			
		

> will precipitates of iron be unbound by root chemistry i the substrate?


I've been using this solution for a few months now and I haven't got any noticable deficiencies so I'm guessing the roots can get at the nutrients.

I'll also say that I make batches of 1.5l and don't have any settling or change in colour etc.  My plants are growing beautifully.



> are you only using distilled water to ensure ratios of dissolved elements stay the same ... ie a clean slate


I don't, I use tap water same as I put in my tank, seeing as I do 50% water changes with it weekly I figured that an extra 10ml a day of it wont hurt!  I do boil it (and allow to cool!) before I make the solution though.



> would any old vit c be appropriate?


Well I wouldn't go for the fizzing orange flavoured ones if I were you!  Basically it needs to be the same concentration as ascorbic acid and the only way to guarantee that is to buy the actual powder.  You can get it on ebay nice and cheap.


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## Steve Smith (14 Nov 2008)

I'm having trouble sourcing Ascobic acid cheap.  Brew shop has 50g which comes to over Â£5 with shipping.  I guess it's not too much but it'd be nice if I could find it cheaper! 

Can't find any on eBay at the moment...

Edit:  Unless I search for Asco*r*bic acid!


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## scottturnbull (14 Nov 2008)

100g ascorbic acid

You should be able to get it cheaper, though. A bakery should have plenty. It's called bread improver.


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## Steve Smith (14 Nov 2008)

Ordered it from the home brew shop, as it works out similar price to ebay, and I don't think I really need 250g when the mix is 0.4g per 500ml!


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## Egmel (14 Nov 2008)

You could make a pretty packet buying all the powders in bulk then bagging up the right quantities for the basic TPN+ recipe and selling them as a 'just add water' mix!

If only I had the time to actually do it!


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## Steve Smith (20 Nov 2008)

I've just made my first batch   My scales are very accurate it seems.  Couldn't even weight out 1g so I've had to best guess the Ascorbic and stabiliser  :? 

Fingers crossed eh?  Ooh, is it supposed to go green?  Mine seems a little brown/AE trace coloured.  I'm wondering if I should add a little more stabiliser just in case?


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## Egmel (21 Nov 2008)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Fingers crossed eh?  Ooh, is it supposed to go green?  Mine seems a little brown/AE trace coloured.  I'm wondering if I should add a little more stabiliser just in case?


Mine's the trace colour too, I think it depends on what colour traces you have.  It seems to be fine.


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## Steve Smith (21 Nov 2008)

Good to know.  Dosed my first 4.5ml this morning...  It seemed to have turned a tiny bit greener by this morning.  I've read that you need to keep this in a dark place, is it fine to keep in the fridge?


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## aaronnorth (21 Nov 2008)

keeping it in a dark place (ie, no sunlight) stops the traces (i think it is traces) breaking down.


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## Daryn (23 Nov 2008)

Got all my stuff from AE and it turned green straight away, i keep it in the cupboard and it is still the same colour after a few weeks, used digital scales to measure amounts and only used boiled tapwater left to cool.


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## BINKSY1973 (4 Jan 2009)

I have been looking at getting the stuff to make some of this mix up, The only thing is i have no scales can the weights of the powders be converted to teaspoons? or is it a case of some scales are needed?


                           Cheers Gordon.


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## YzemaN (4 Jan 2009)

BINKSY1973 said:
			
		

> can the weights of the powders be converted to teaspoons? or is it a case of some scales are needed?


Try this: Chuck's Planted Aquarium Calculator


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## keymaker (5 Jan 2009)

YzemaN said:
			
		

> BINKSY1973 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also, you can use my excel calculator, which will automatically give you all the amounts in teaspoons too.


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## stephanie (10 Feb 2009)

Hiya,

Has anyone decided to do TPN+ recipe and selling them as a 'just add water' mix?


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## Egmel (10 Feb 2009)

Not that I'm aware of as most people like to tweak the recipe to their own needs.


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## Steve Smith (9 Mar 2009)

My last batch went mouldy, but as my scales were really quite crap (seemed to be able to measure only in 2g increments!) I think I didn't have enough E202.  Got some digi scales today so about to make another batch


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## Egmel (9 Mar 2009)

I don't measure properly any more, I just add a bit that looks about right! (I know it's awful but that's how I do cooking and it seems to work ok!)  I seem to remember that James once converted weights of the preservatives into teaspoon values.


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## LondonDragon (9 Mar 2009)

I am on my second batch now and very happy with it, I have increased the doses silightly from my original calculations has I got some algae, but then again I am running 144w of T5 over my Rio! With the dosing pump this is the easiest I have ever run a tank, very happy with the purchase, auto dosing is really the way to go.


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