# Ultra life Blue green slime remover



## Ash J (27 May 2022)

Morning all, 

Has anyone used the above to get rid of BGA? If so did it have any ill effect on plants/tank inhabitants. 
The BGA on my hardscape is just so recurrent, I'm not sure if this is down to the river wood still breaking down  and leeching a tonne of organics but the wood is quite soft on the surface. I'm removing as much as I can and have even tried dosing easycarbo on to it but it still comes back after a few days. 

Cheerss

Ash


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## Aleman (27 May 2022)

I've used it, and it did make an impression on the blue green menace, but it has always come back  @Hanuman has recomended Chemiclean, but I've checked and it's no longer available in the UK . I looked around a few other fora, and BlueLife Red Cyano RX has been strongly recommended in REEF aquaria.with people saying it works. Another bunch of searching and I found that they have a product for freshwater aquaria (Blue Life Green Cyano RX), so I decided to put an order in for it, just waiting for delivery ... In the meantime, more frequent water changes manually removing as much as I can, making sure nutrient levels don't fall too low. I'm also going to spot treat the substrate with 3% hydrogen peroxide, and then give it a good clean / stir, as part of the WC's


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## Hanuman (27 May 2022)

None, absolutely none of the product you will put in your tank to remove BGA will ever eradicate BGA permanently. BGA is a bacteria, contrary to what the acronym implies. Even under laboratory conditions these products couldn't remove 100% of the bacteria, so you can imagine that in a tank that will never happen. Even if you did contamination is just so easy. BGA is basically in any tools you used in the tank. It comes in the water, in the hardscape, in the plants.


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## jaypeecee (27 May 2022)

Hi @Hanuman & Everyone,

Yes, Cyanobacteria (aka BGA) is not easy to eliminate from our tanks but it can be done. And I have a tank sitting alongside me right now in which I have no visible Cyano. Ever since I started investigating this Blue-Green Menace two years ago, I have continued to explore what makes Cyano seemingly bulletproof. I will put together a summary of my findings. But, that could take a few weeks. I did make a start on this back in January of this year - so, please don't hold your breath!

JPC


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## Hanuman (27 May 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Yes, Cyanobacteria (aka BGA) is not easy to eliminate from our tanks but it can be done. And I have a tank sitting alongside me right now in which I have no visible Cyano. Ever since I started investigating this Blue-Green Menace two years ago, I have continued to explore what makes Cyano seemingly bulletproof. I will put together a summary of my findings. But, that could take a few weeks. I did make a start on this back in January of this year - so, please don't hold your breath!


Most BGA treatments are antibiotics. We know that bacteria usually become resistant to antibiotic with time. Cyano is no exception.
Having no visible cyano bacteria doesn't mean it is not present. I would bet you still have it, but it has not expressed itself due to unfavorable conditions to its proliferation.

Here is a study that was done on the <Toxic Effects of ALGEXIT and BLUE EXIT agents on aquatic organisms>.
Results show that the "_Percentage cell inhibition of Anabaena sp. in 96 hours with ALGEXIT in concentration 0.1ml.l-1 was 43.53% and with BLUE EXIT in concentration 0.125 ml.l-1 was 90.64%._". This means bacteria has not been fully eradicated. This was done in lab condition in Erlenmayers flasks etc etc.

My tanks are usually free of BGA, but when the hot season arrives I can see it creeping between the glass and the substrate on some spots. It will rarely go beyond that due to all conditions not being favorable for its development, but temperature alone can give a kick start. Once the hot season is gone, BGA disappears.


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## tigertim (27 May 2022)

Yes i used it with great success a few years ago, no ill effects that i could see, after some research indicated low Nitrate might be a potentail cause of BGA i then started to add 10% tapwater to my rain water, the problem hasn't returned since.


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## seedoubleyou (27 May 2022)

Try Flucanazole. I’ve never used it in that application but I used it in a reef tank to kill bryopsis (which is the devil).
I never got any form of algae again after that (coincidence maybe).

It shouldn’t harm anything in your tank (shouldn’t).

Might be worth a shot.


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## xZaiox (27 May 2022)

tigertim said:


> after some research indicated low Nitrate might be a potentail cause of BGA


Clive would also agree with this - Cyanobacteria

My experiences with it also corroborates this. I've only had small patches/sheets of cyano show up on the glass occasionally in my main tank, and I remember being sure that it wasn't a nitrate issue because my nitrates would frequently test at 40+ ppm via the API test kit. I then read a post by Clive basically saying the test kits are trash and that the presence of cyano nearly always indicates a nitrate deficiency, and to go ahead and just dose more KNO3 despite what the test kit says. I did this, and low and behold, the cyano went away.

Not saying this is the case every time, just that this is my experience with it personally.


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## jaypeecee (27 May 2022)

Hanuman said:


> Most BGA treatments are antibiotics. We know that bacteria usually become resistant to antibiotic with time. Cyano is no exception.


Hi @Hanuman

In the UK, sale of antibiotics is illegal without a veterinarian's prescription.



Hanuman said:


> Here is a study that was done on the <Toxic Effects of ALGEXIT and BLUE EXIT agents on aquatic organisms>.
> Results show that the "_Percentage cell inhibition of Anabaena sp. in 96 hours with ALGEXIT in concentration 0.1ml.l-1 was 43.53% and with BLUE EXIT in concentration 0.125 ml.l-1 was 90.64%._". This means bacteria has not been fully eradicated. This was done in lab condition in Erlenmayers flasks etc etc



In my tank (and Tom Barr's customers' tanks), we are not seeing Anabaena. Instead, it's a different Genus of Cyano known as Oscillatoria.


tigertim said:


> ...after some research indicated low Nitrate might be a potentail cause of BGA...



Hi @tigertim

It's not so much the nitrate itself but the ratio of nitrate to phosphate that may contribute to growth of Cyano.

JPC


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## xZaiox (27 May 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> It's not so much the nitrate itself but the ratio of nitrate to phosphate that may contribute to growth of Cyano.


Hi @jaypeecee - Could you please explain this a little further? I'm interested in understanding this more. How does an out of whack ratio of nitrate to phosphate lead to cyano growth?


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## jaypeecee (27 May 2022)

xZaiox said:


> Hi @jaypeecee - Could you please explain this a little further? I'm interested in understanding this more. How does an out of whack ratio of nitrate to phosphate lead to cyano growth?


Hi @Zaiox

The following document will provide some information on this topic. It's not ideal because it deals with Microcystis Aeruginosa but it will get you started:






						The Role of Nitrogen and Phosphorus in the Growth, Toxicity, and Distribution of the Toxic Cyanobacteria, Microcystis aeruginosa
					

Microcystis aeruginosa is among the most common harmful algal-blooming species in the world. Potent microcystins released by M. aeruginosa  have been linked to liver failure and death in aquatic mammals, like the endangered California sea otter, and provide a serious public health risk to...




					repository.usfca.edu
				




All the best,

JPC


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## xZaiox (27 May 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> The Role of Nitrogen and Phosphorus in the Growth, Toxicity, and Distribution of the Toxic Cyanobacteria, Microcystis aeruginosa
> 
> 
> Microcystis aeruginosa is among the most common harmful algal-blooming species in the world. Potent microcystins released by M. aeruginosa  have been linked to liver failure and death in aquatic mammals, like the endangered California sea otter, and provide a serious public health risk to...
> ...


Thanks for this, very interesting read! I wonder if this implies that certain cases of cyano in a planted tank could be fixed by reducing the phosphate levels, rather than boosting the nitrate (such as in cases of high levels of phosphate from tap water). I guess additional complications are that there are a lot of different things going on in a planted tank, it seems quite easy to mess up the balance


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## Hanuman (28 May 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> In my tank (and Tom Barr's customers' tanks), we are not seeing Anabaena. Instead, it's a different Genus of Cyano known as Oscillatoria.


Erythromycin is what most of these products are composed of and we know for a fact that many bacteria are already resistant to it. Chemiclean is actually made of erythromycine sulfate and I would speculate that most BGA treatments have similar composition. APT Fix is something different but they do claim it to treat cyanobacteria as well.

There is a multitude of cyanobacteria strains. Even if that study focused on Anabaena and not Oscillatoria, the only way to know if a bacteria is completely eradicated is by testing the substrate with a lab test. Even after an antibiotic treatment, bacteria can survive as spores, which are dormant structures which allows the bacteria to survive the most adverse conditions but I would highly doubt that an antibiotic treatment in a tank would be able to even kill 100% of metabolically active cyanobacteria considering all the crannies, the substrate, the wood etc etc. 

Regardless of the above, what matters at the end of the day is that you don't see the bacteria anymore. Whether it is not visible to the naked eye or totally eradicated is in fact irrelevant because as long as you don't see it all is good. 🤝👍


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## Easternlethal (28 May 2022)

Another aspect which I think is often overlooked is that different colonies of bacteria often inhibit each other so going for diversity can be an effective long term controlas all medication does is reset the environment and bacteria will come back. 

I've tried introducing bacteria from taking rocks and water from rivers and streams outside, other people's tanks etc. 

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## Hanuman (28 May 2022)

Indeed, I have read in multiple occasions here and there that introducing new beneficial bacteria colonies could control BGA.


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## MirandaB (28 May 2022)

I'm learning to live with the odd Cyano outbreak now as it's never in my planted tanks but the temperate ones with ironically lots of flow and does coincide with the rise in ambient temperatures.
One thing I have noticed is that it is significantly worse in the tank which has JBL Sansibar dark substrate and I will be changing that out as it's truly awful sand anyway.


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## Hanuman (28 May 2022)

MirandaB said:


> I'm learning to live with the odd Cyano outbreak now as it's never in my planted tanks but the temperate ones with ironically lots of flow and does coincide with the rise in ambient temperatures.
> One thing I have noticed is that it is significantly worse in the tank which has JBL Sansibar dark substrate and I will be changing that out as it's truly awful sand anyway.


Same here. It's the temperature that usually kickstarts them. I used to add some hydrogen peroxyde between the glass and the substrate for those small patches but don't do it anymore as hydrogen peroxyde is so strong that is decomposed the substrate into dust.


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## jaypeecee (28 May 2022)

Hanuman said:


> Regardless of the above, what matters at the end of the day is that you don't see the bacteria anymore. Whether it is not visible to the naked eye or totally eradicated is in fact irrelevant because as long as you don't see it all is good.


Hi @Hanuman 

I think we'd all agree with that - out of sight, out of mind.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (28 May 2022)

Hanuman said:


> Chemiclean is actually made of erythromycine sulfate and I would speculate that most BGA treatments have similar composition.


Hi @Hanuman 

That's useful information. On that basis, you may be interested to read the following:






						Biological control method of blue-green algae - Patent CN-104386830-A - PubChem
					

CN-104386830-A chemical patent summary.




					pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




JPC


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## Ash J (30 May 2022)

Thanks all for your contributions. It's really appreciated. 

I was away from  home over the weekend, prior to leaving I did a 50% wc before I left and siphoned alot of the BGA up, I also reduced the lighting intensity down by about 10%. BGA is worse on return than it was before I did the w/c. 
Reading the comments re phosphates/nitrates. I don't use RO water, my tap water contains about 5ppm of nitrates. I dose standard micro/ macro EI  mixture at 30 ml per day. Tank reads at roughly 15ppm of nitrates. I'm concerned this is possibly too low? Should I increase my EI macro dosing or add more KNO3 to the mixture? 

Cheers 
Ash


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## Hanuman (31 May 2022)

At 15ppm of NO3, it doesn't seem low nor high to me. Can you share a picture of your tank please?


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## Ash J (31 May 2022)

Hi @Hanuman,
Here are some pics of the tank. I've tried to highlight some of the spots that are more prone to the BGA which is mainly the hardscape though the BGA has started to settle alot more on the Hydrocotyle tripartita, Hemianthus micranthemoides and Blyxa (both Blyxa and tripartita are in high flow areas) 















Cheers
Ash


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## Hanuman (1 Jun 2022)

Here is my assessment.
1. Considering the prominence of the hardscape/wood centrally located all along the tank, I am not convinced that a spray-bar is the best here. Water flow patter is being disrupted.
2. I am concerned those two wave makers/pumps could be a bit excessive.
3. You could slightly increase NO3 but I am not sure that will fix the issue. I think the wood is probably releasing lots of organics and that is not helping.

Overall I would try improving the CO2 and O2 distribution in that tank for long term BGA control and stability. I would also use Chemiclean or similar product because that would alleviate your issue for a good while. It's not good to let cyanobacteria proliferate specially for the inhabitants...and the smell, it's pretty awful too!


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## Ash J (1 Jun 2022)

Hanuman said:


> Here is my assessment.
> 1. Considering the prominence of the hardscape/wood centrally located all along the tank, I am not convinced that a spray-bar is the best here. Water flow patter is being disrupted.
> 2. I am concerned those two wave makers/pumps could be a bit excessive.
> 3. You could slightly increase NO3 but I am not sure that will fix the issue. I think the wood is probably releasing lots of organics and that is not helping.
> ...


Thank you very much for the reply @Hanuman
I've tested many methods of flow to optimise co2 distrution and feel this the best one. However, there is still issue with this. The spraybar flow is very weak on the left compared to the right, it also doesn't spray out straight, more of a diagonol which means without the use of the right wavemaker the co2 is concentrated more on the right. Due to the weak flow out of the left part of the spraybar the left almost becomes a complete dead spot. The wavemaker oliviates this. Maybe my spraybar just sucks and needs replacing.

In an ideal world I would love to use lily pipes of sort on the left side of the tank, but I'd need to butcher the rim on the Roma tank and it'd still be a very tight fit.

With the wood releasing alot of organics, I'm assuming this will this eventually slow?

I've been considering adding a Chihiros New Doctor/Twinstar alternative to increase oxygen levels though it's another big investment, would this be worthwhile?

I'll pick up some ultralife as chemiclean isn't available in the UK as far as I'm aware. 

Cheers
Ash


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## Hanuman (1 Jun 2022)

Ash J said:


> With the wood releasing alot of organics, I'm assuming this will this eventually slow?


I can't answer that definitively, but I would assume that yes. Wood will always decompose anyway but if the wood is young and has never been in a tank or washed in a river for some period of time, I would think it would release more organics than a wood that has aged significantly. A botanist or a biologist would certainly better answer this question. The thing is that because the wood is exposed to light, it is also a magnet to algae in general.


Ash J said:


> I've been considering adding a Chihiros New Doctor/Twinstar alternative to increase oxygen levels though it's another big investment, would this be worthwhile?


Although I do have one for the sole purpose of increasing oxygen in the water column I don't think it's necessary. You can achieve similar higher oxygenation in water by increasing surface agitation and making sure that your surface is always clear. Also making sure that the skimmer is slightly pointing down enables you to bring highly oxygenated water to the lower stratum of the tank.


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## MirandaB (1 Jun 2022)

Dropped you a pm @Ash J  I might have enough Chemiclean to dose your tank and I don't mind popping some in the post for you.


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## Chrispowell (2 Jun 2022)

I have had bga in both of my newest set ups...

I did a manual removal and then a 4 day blackout, it's not reappeared in either tank since then 👍🏻


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