# 'Under the forest canopy' - 19/06/08 Disaster Strikes again



## GreenNeedle (20 Sep 2007)

*'UNDER THE FOREST CANOPY'

TANK:*
Fluval Duo Deep 800 (125 Litre / 33USG)

*FILTRATION/HEATING:*
Tetratec EX700.  Vecton2 200 8W UV steriliser.  Hydor ETH-200 external in-line heater.  Glass 'lily' outflow and inflow pipes.

*CO2 INJECTION:*
Disposable 600g cannisters.  Dual gauge welding regulator.  Lunapet needle valve.  Lunapet CO2 hose,  Gamba XII glass bubble counter.  Gamba XII non return valve.  Rhinox 2000 glass/ceramic diffuser.
(Running 24 hours @ 1-2bps)

*LIGHTING:*
1 x 24" T8 18W Arcadia Freshwater.  1 x 29" T5 30W Hot5 SpectrumGro (1.8WPG).
Timed 3Â½ hours @ 0.9WPG, 3 hours @ 1.5WPG, 3Â½ hours @ 0.9WPG.

*WEEKLY ROUTINE:*
Macros - 6ml dosed daily.  Solution consists of 500ml DI Water, 17g Potassium Nitrate, 3g Potassium Phosphate, 36g Potassium sulphate, 16g Magnesium Sulphate.
Micros - 3ml Tropica Plant Nutrition Daily
Hard tap water loaded with nitrate and phosphate.
10-15% water change on Wednesday and Saturday nights.


*BIOLOAD:*
9 Cardinal tetra, 4 Pitbull plecs, 3 Otocinclus, 2 Bolivian Rams and Loadsa Malaysian trumpet snails.

*PLANTS:*
Blyxia Japonica
Nymphea zenkeri (tiger lotus) - Green and red Varieties.
Philippine java fern.
Needle leaf java fern.
Anubias Barteri v Nana.
Anubias Barteri
Anubias Barteri Petite.
Cryptocoryne Balansae different varieties.
Cryptocoryne Undulata.
Cryptocoryne Spiralis.
Cryptocoryne Wendtii Green.
Cryptocoryne Wendtii Brown.
Cryptocoryne Wendtii Tropica.
Christmas Moss.







*THE SCAPE:*
The substrate contains fresh mulm (from previous setup),leonardite (Earthworks soil builder granules), Tropica plant substrate and finally J Arthur Bowers silver sand.




First the ferns, anubias and moss are attached to bogwood so that they aren't out of the tank for too long a time.  One Anubia has a flower on it from the previous setup.




A nice clean and empty tank and then in situ with white fablon background.







Fresh mulm is spread across the bottom.  Still in a little amount of tank water that it was mixed with when I boxed it.




A Â½ inch layer of leonardite added which will be invisible as it is below the bottom border of the tank.  This is quite a powdery substance rather than granules as it says on the box.




Tropica substrate goes in as close to planned scape as possible.  I can't give a review on this for a long while because I don't know how long it will last etc, but I'm chuffed to bits with the colour because it is the same as the sand and therefore blends in much better than some of the more orangey/brown substrate additives.




Finally the silver sand goes on the top to complete the substrate.  I love the colour of silver/dry/play sand.  They are all the same material with the only difference being that dry/silver sand is sterilised and play sand is not.  It is also the perfect colour to see Pitbull plecs do what they do best which is to change their colour to match their surroundings within reason so when they are on the sand they go a very light sand colour and when they are in the shade or greenery they darken up and show their greeny freckles

Then hardscape is positioned, the tank one third filled with water and equipment added, planted and then filled.

And this is how it looks now.








The scape's title 'under the forest canopy' is really based on what I envision this scape will turn into, which is to use the 7 Nymphae bulbs in the tank (5 x Rubra, 2 x Zenkeri) to provide the 'tree trunks' and stagger their pads through the top third of the tank which will make the 'forest canopy'.  I hope I don't need to rename it!!

I have also added Bacopa Caroliniana as individual stems as it has developed nicely in the previous setup and has nice thick stalks and a lovely texture to the leaves.  I hated the look of this plant when I first got it in a cheapo collection but I have developed a fondness for its fully grown appearance.

All this cover will provide the plants below with the shelter they need as they are all low light plants (Ferns, Moss, Anubias, Crypts.) These should fill out the floor nicely and provide quite a bit of foliage. In greens and browns and yellows.

I cut the leaves from most of the crypts and Lilys so that I won't need to fish out dead leaves and also because the Lilys need to be trained to stagger again because during my recent 2 weeks holiday they all got carried away and would look a little bit too much for this scape.

Therefore this tank will be a slow grower and the vision I have of it may not come into fruition for 6 months or more which I think will be quite interesting to watch (Do I sound boring or what?)

I have chosen the white background because when you walk through a wood or forest you see the horizon through the trunks as white although I'm not too sure about the fablon backing.  I chose fablon because my equipment is all glass and it needs to be suckered to the outside of the tank.  The fablon is very smooth and lets the suckers hold on whereas paper, cloth etc doesn't let you do this.  I may yet paint the back of the tank white but I'm not too keen on this.

At the moment it looks poor and people may say black would be better but if the tank develops as I am planning then it will get a lot darker with the Lily pads blocking a fair bit of light and then the white will be integral to the overall effect.  Black would look better at the moment but in a couple of months would mean you couldn't see much at all.  This tank is very much a case of planning for the future and I may well keep it the way it is for many years to come if it turns out the way I want it to.

Another integral part is the hardscape.  Some may say that it is too low for a high tank but there are no set rules in this hobby and I have intentionally left the hardscape low because I want the sense of depth to make the tank seem taller and give an illusion of height to the 'forest'.

Let me know what you think.  I am open to critique, both positive and negative, but please be gentle as this is my first real attempt at an aquascape rather than just a tank with plants in it.

Andy


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## bugs (20 Sep 2007)

Mmmm... I'm interested in how the backing turns out over time... I keep debating a backing on my tank, mainly to hide the kit; however, sense that I'll never be happy with what I choose. I contemplated placing a backing an inch or two off the back of the tank so that there was some shadowing to create more illusion of depth but have not got round to trying anything yet.

The scape... I like the right-hand side best. The left feels less cohesive and the rocks not quite right. I think I would be tempted to develop the terrace effect on the right hand side by placing another piece of wood opposite, creating a gulley effect.

Like you say, no hard and fast rules - I'm constantly fettering, pleased with the results, and then find myself fettering more again at a future date...

I'm interested to see how this develops.


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## Dave Spencer (20 Sep 2007)

I reckon using the light background is a good idea. With the more subdued lighting and shading effect from overhannging plants, black may have come out too gloomy in this instance.

I`m not convinced by the substrate line across the front of the tank, though. It`s a bit too distracting for me. Perhaps if it was to undulate more gently, especially on the right hand side. The make up of the substrate is pretty interesting.

You know you are a true aquascaper when you give your creation a poncey name.   

Dave.


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## beeky (25 Sep 2007)

However it turns out, I applaud you for trying something a little different with your own ideas, rather than going to formula.

Although I like darker backgrounds, I find flat black a little uninteresting and your mention of cloth got me thinking. I quite fancy the idea of a dark material put on the back, to give a bit of texture. Maybe a combat/camaflage material?!

Does the tropica substrate require a 'cap'? I like the colour as it's a nice 'natural' brown rather than the whiter sand or black.

I like the tank though, and look forward to seeing it grow. Good luck with it.


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## GreenNeedle (26 Sep 2007)

I won't be updating this journal every week because with the plants I have chosen for this scape and also the reduced lighting the growth will be much slower.  I also won't be changing the layout at all so there won't be huge changes week to week.

However I can show you the finished pine hood that is now on the tank.  It is definitely better than the original hood that I persisted with for so long, modding and modding over and over. lol





The two HO T5s are fitted and I have moved from the previous 0.6WPG (1 x 18W T8) to 0.9WPG (1 x 30W T5) with just the Spectrum Gro Lamp on for a straight 10 hours.  Next week I will have the Daylight on for the middle 2 hours which will give me 1.8WPG (2 x 30W T5) during this 'midday' period.  This is the lighting routine I am planning to keep.

These lights are super cool looking and the light they give is nice too.  These shots are with 0.9WPG!!! Only the Spectrum Grow 30W is on.








The final 'little' change this week is that I have joined a Cichlid forum.  Why?  Because I have purchased 2 male Bolivian Rams!!  These are peaceful dwarf Cichlids which enjoy planted tanks and are hardier than German Blue Rams.  The 24 hour CO2 should benefit them by keeping the Ph in the low 6s rather than the low 7s that my tap dispenses (No RO etc on this tank.)  I had been looking to buy a pair of German Blues but saw these and loved their more subtle but still vibrant colourings.











Although they are peaceful for Cichlids, the males are territorial and they are still confronting each other to decide where the middle ground is. lol.  They seem to take it in turns to back off though.

A week or two to let them get settled in and I am planning to add 2 females and hope that they pair off with the boys.

I'm already loving these fish as they compliment their co-habitants really well.  The plecs laze around ignoring you unless you move suddenly and then they hide.  The Otos ignore you totally with their tunnel vision focused on grazing all day.  The tetras rush away to hide when you come near before slowly advancing back towards you and these Rams see you there and come towards you as if to say 'What you looking at Eh?'

One of the pitbull plecs munching away on Tetra Prima.




Thanks for reading

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (30 Dec 2007)

THIS IS AN ENTRY FROM 11th NOVEMBER

This setup is now 7 weeks old and 1 reason I haven't been posting updates is because there was so much green on the glass that you couldn't see anything.  I have left it to 'cycle' and there is still some remaining but not too much.

I have come to the conclusion that the HO T5s absolutely smash the WPG rule because I have had some major algae build ups with 'just' 1.8WPG.

The current routine is now based on lean dosing which I dose daily (see first post for the ingredients for my dosing as I have altered it there)

I have also changed my lighting to 4-2-4 (30W,60W,30W) WPG???? Who knows.

My water changes are no 10-15% twice a week.

This is how the tank is looking at the moment (after a heavy prune)








And this is the view I have from my chair whilst using the PC




Guess what this 'little' Otos been feeding on!!




And this is a view through the left side of the tank




Finally this piece of bogwood has had a huge trimming fest as all the Anubias and Needle Ferns were covered in staghorn.




So after 7 weeks we have had lots of growth both in algae and in plantmass.

The Nuphar Japonica is huge now and starting to 'command' the tank so I may still have to prune this back a little.

The low light plants suffered a little during the time when the Lilys gre their leaves to block the light and they have had to be pruned heavily due to this.  Switching dosing routines and lights will not have helped but hopefully the tank is balanced again now.

Thanks for reading and will update again in a month or so

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (30 Dec 2007)

AN ENTRY FROM 15TH DECEMBER

An update on the scape so far.  Week 12 of ?

So people please remember we are talking a slow growing tank here with Ferns, Moss, Crypts and Anubias and growth of these is not rampant.

The Giant Bacopa and Nympeae are rampant however and require pruning every week.

The Nuphar is out of control and I have to cut 2-3 leaves off every week or so (so much for the dennerle guidelines which say 2-3 leaves growth per month. lol)  This plant pre pruning spans the tank at 80cm (30 inches.)  It is a monster.

The lighting is 0.9WPG of T5HO for 10 hours with another 0.9WPG T5HO for the central 2 hours so this is basically a low light tank with a noon burst and is now being lean dosed.

I do have some pics at this stage.  

The Crypts are growing quite well and ridiculously tall some of them.  Me thinks they are not what they were meant to be but they look great anyway.

The Java Fern is now down to new growth only as all the pre-scape leaves have been cut away.  I must say it is looking as lush as ****

The Anubias are battling on and are now producing quite a few leaves.

The Christmas moss has battled the algae and is now winning as it is feeding on any dead relatives it is sitting on and there are huge frongs of green coming from it (and in the mesh portions on the right which I intend to tie to another piece of wood I am preparing)

This is the front of tank shot




This is an arty Jimboo stylee shot from the left of the tank




And this is a view through the left hand side of the tank




Sorry the pics look a little green but the Nuphar Japonica leaves are acting like green slides over the bulbs. lol

I am moving house yet again in January and therefore I will be having to probs remove most of the plants to get the fish out.  They will go back as close as possible to where they came from but you never get it right.

One thing I will be doing.  If anyone fancies the Nuphar Japonica I will be cutting the 'core' in half before replanting it so if someone fancies the other half they are welcome to it.  (This is how I first received it as a quarter of the previous plant and it had about 5 6 inch long leaves/stems.  Now 1 leaf is bigger than the plant was when I got it. lol)

Please please please some comments...even abusive.


Andy


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## GreenNeedle (30 Dec 2007)

AN ENTRY FROM 26TH DECEMBER

An update on my 'move' plans really.

The other day whilst doing a thorough water change (pipes, hoses CO2 Equip etc) I caught the daylight HOT5 on he rim of the glass and unfortunately it ended up half submerged.

It wasn't turned on so no fatalities but the light will not work now (with it being a ballast within the reflector its not just a case of drying out i'm afraid)

Therefore I have my fav 18W Arcadia Freshwater back in the hood.  The electronic ballast is screwed to the back of the hood.  So we are in effect now at 48W which gives me (by the rule I hate) approx 1.5WPG (This does not take into account the higher efficiency of the T5HO that remains.

I will be moving house in January (yet again) and am planning quite a few changes.

The Lily pipes and diffusor will be moved into the same position as George's two 125ltr tanks.  Call me a copycat but consider if you see something that works with the same equipment that you have would you not do the same?

I will move onto TPN+ on its own as the fertilizer eventually but not until I have finished all the dry ferts I still have using JamesC's PMDD+PO4 recipe from his site (which is the best recipe I have used yet.)

The hardscape (Sorry George) will remain the same although I do have a small spindley knarled piece of wood which I will be adding.

I have decided with much regret that the Nuphar will not be returning as it is just too succesful.  Also The Nymphea numbers will be reduced as it is just too prolific in my tank so I will be sticking with the 2 Zenkeri and removing all the Rubra (Zenkeri/Tiger Lotus has a much more striking pattena on the leaves).
(The Nuphar will live on though as Themuleous has requested one quarter of the plant.  There will be three more quarters to get rid of, or maybe for me to sell on ebay. lol)

The Crypts which were scattered will be moved to a more traditional layout with the taller ones like Undulata to the back and Wendtiis towards the front.

The Phillipine Java Fern (although smaller) is starting to look like George's wonderful specimens being a lovely 'clean' grass green as are the needle leafs and Anubias.

The White background will be removed totally leaving a plain glass back (The walls in my new house will be an ivory colour once painted)

Fishwise - The current larger Ram has chased the other to death.  It has been confirmed as a female much to my surprise as when I bought them this one was ID'd by bolivian experts as a Male on the Cichlid Forum but now fully fattened up the same experts have decided he is a she!!.  Therefore I shall be getting a new Male mature example and hope they pair up.

I am also going to return the cardinals to their original numbers (20) now there is no moss wall (which was a death trap).

After I have laid out the new 'scape' I shall probably get some weeds in to fill the gaps for a while until the crypts fill out properly (I am anticipating a lot of crypt rot)

Until then I think the current scape will remain pretty similar so I won't do the next update until 'we' are settled in.

Thanks for reading

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (30 Dec 2007)

As the tank stands at the moment I have already removed the white background getting ready to move the tank in the next 2 weeks (Fablon is damned hard to put on without bubbles but a joy to peel off)

I have cut 2 slots on the right of the hood and moved my Lily pipes into the same position as George.  I'va also copied his diffusor position too.  (Copycat yes but why not if you see something that works so well)

Im also going to copy George and go solo with TPN+ after I've run out of dry ferts.  I'm currently using JamesC's PMDD+PO4 solution with TPN for trace and it is working really well.  EI also worked well for me but James' mix seems to work better.  Its lean but there are no defficiencies that I can see and the water is like crystal.  It also allows me to do 2 x 10% changes per week rather than have to do a huge 50% like I did with EI.

With the house move approaching fast I am gathering thoughts and ideas as well as inviting people to give opinions on what to do with my hardscape.  I will have to stick with the items I already have in the tank but position them a little better.

Thoughts and opinions?

Andy


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## Garuf (30 Dec 2007)

I know you like to do something different each time with your scapes so why not try and replicate a section of forest similar to that of plillipe oliver did? I'm sure you could pull it off.

The things that I always like about this tank was the choice of plants, the hardscape never really spoke to me, I think With more height and brasher hardscape, think Iwagumi It could really look amazing especially if more dense growth is encouraged. 
hope that makes sence. 
Gareth.


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## GreenNeedle (30 Dec 2007)

Im sorry to disappoint you Garuf.  My initial plan sounded good but the planning wasn't thought through properely (even though it was 2-3 months in planning. lol)

The Nuphar and 7 Nympheae are just too much for this size tank to handle.  The Nuphar on its own is borderline as it can fill the tank on its own if allowed.

As for Felipe Oliveira.  I guess you mean Syrah with the moss tree?  If so Im not too sure about doing something like that.  The moss around my driftwood (dead tree) I have let grow and is starting to get to 2 inches long in some places.

My ideas for the hardscape so far aren't readical changes just that instead of having the plum slate cave roof almost flat as it is at the moment to angle it a lot more by proping in with the other piece just to the right of its centre.  This would also mean banking up the substrate again behind in the left rear corner.

Now the filter pipes and diffusor are not in this corner anymore the Phillipine Java Fern should have more room to cover the bogwood it is on and take over this corner.  Not with the same success as George's but its a lovely colour at the moment anyway.

The needle leaf is starting to grow well as are the Anubias (of which I am getting another load from?????..lol)  The moss dead tree may move towards the right and the large Mopani more central.

The Nuphar is going and I am going to leave in there The 2 Zenkeri (Tiger Lotus) One has leaves in green with Red Flecks and the other is red with dark red flecks so they are wuite different.  I may retain one of the Rubra too and train it to stay low.

The large Crypts will be moved to the rear and allowed the room to Grow and then merge hopefully.

Altogether a more structured and typical scape in a sort of U shape (more like N really)

A much different range of plants than most but in a more traditional layout.

Fish will help me keep this interesting whilst it grows though as I am restoring my Cardinals to 20 in Jan/Feb and finding a nice male for my female Bolivian Ram.

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (13 Jan 2008)

I've moved house and relocated the tank.  At the same time I have done my rescape and the tank looks quite bare at the moment.

I will post some updated piccies later.  Reason being that the Nuphars root system was over 2 ft long (and there were hundreds of 2-3mm wide roots!!!! and of course there was no way even though i spent 1 hour individually pulling each root to minimise disturbance of the substrate!!!  Therefore some of the clayish Tropica was pulled through the sand.

This is what I have done:

Turned the house temperature up to 26Âº (to help keep the fish in their containers at a decent temperature as I estimated a long time out of the tank (was about 15 hours in the end)

I removed all the water (apart from that in the fish containers) to reduce the amount in the water and then refilled to a third of the tank height.

Then in went my hardscape.

Next the plants were laid out on some newspaper and I arranged them according to their height and style (trimmin the roots to Â½inch and removing any unhealthy/damaged leaves.

Then I did my planting.

In went the filter pipes, DC, thermometer and diffusor.

Filled to 4/5ths with water.

Turned on the CO2, filter, heater, UV and let the water get closer to the previous parameters (i.e. CO2ppm, Temperature, Ph reduction from CO2 etc)

Went to bed at 7am.

Awoke at 3pm and floated the fish containers in the tank (mixing tank water into the containers every 10 minutes)

Released the fish at 4-30pm.

Sat and watched as they all investigated their 'new home'

They all look pretty unscathed by the move although there is the usual flicking that I often see after large water changes (I do use dechlor)

Will let the filter continue its work in removing the cloudy particles before doing a full clean of the media tomorrow.  After which I will take some piccies for you to critique tomorrow.

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (6 Mar 2008)

At last an update with pictures.

As a quick recap, this tank was moved to my new house in early January and immediately rescaped (meaning I moved things around).

It did of course suffer a little due to being down my list of priorities as I have been redecorating since then.

At the moment it looks a little bare as I had to get in there and tackle a huge algae attack and with my tactics this always inviolves scissors and the greenwaste bin so please bear this in mind.

In the end I have left the slate where is was but slanted it in a much more prominent position.  The tree has moved from centre to right and the Mopani Cave has moved from Right to left.  The pipes have moved to the right in a blatent attempt to copy George's tank seeing as we have the same pipes.

On the CO2 front I am using a maxijet MP400 with a DIY needle hole impellor which I will see how well this method works.  If it does it may stay.  If not I shall reinsert the Rhinox and bring the darned bleach back to the front of the domestic cupboard.

I have also planted the Blyxia Japonica (Grows great under .9WPG with 2 hours at 1.5WPG) and C Balansae that I got from George, and also some Anubias that are on the left of the Java Fern that Garuf sent me.

Here is the tank as it stood tonight




Comments welcome

Andy


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## Steve Smith (7 Mar 2008)

Looking good mate   I'll be interested to know how the CO2 diffusion goes with the maxijet.  If I were to make a constructive criticism, I think the flat stone middle left looks a bit out of place.

Looking forward to seeing how it recovers from the move


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## Garuf (7 Mar 2008)

Massive improvement, glad to the the anubias I gave you still doing well.


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## TDI-line (7 Mar 2008)

Hey, i've got that tea towel.   

Lovely layout joking aside.


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## Luketendo (7 Mar 2008)

IMO the big red plant should be more in the centre, it is attracting too much attention at the sides.

Other than that, still much better than mine!


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## Themuleous (7 Mar 2008)

Really, really like the new scape, Andy.  Needs to get a bit of height on it, but that will happen with time.

Keep it up matey 

Sam


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## Luketendo (7 Mar 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Really, really like the new scape, Andy.  Needs to get a bit of height on it, but that will happen with time.
> 
> Keep it up matey
> 
> Sam



Yeah just needs a bit of growing!


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## GreenNeedle (7 Mar 2008)

The flat stone left of centre is there for the rams to breed should they wish to. lol

I like my red side.  I think the Zenkeri 'Red' goes well with the plum slate with the Zenkeri 'Green' in the opposite side. (p.s.  It was in the centre and I wanted it to be more subtle so that is why I moved it!!)

Height will happen eventually.  I am hoping for a shallow 'U' shape with the two sides being full of Zenkeri and Balansae leaves with the Java and Anubias filling the centre.

Thanks for the critiques guys. 

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (15 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

This is the maxijet MP400 I bought from aquatics online for Â£15ish for my 125Ltr.  I would suggest that it shouldn't be used on tanks any smaller than this as it is very powerful even with the diminished flow rate caused by the holes.  It will probably work for anything up to 300Ltr

This is a pic of the pump





A pic of the impellor which I have since widened the holes to 1.5mm with a normal cordless drill.  This pic has some .8mm holes I made in it.




A pic of the CO2 line fed through the intake housing




And a pic of the pump hidden behind the red lotus




You can just see it in the reflection on the left hand side

CO2 needs to be lowered when using this because with a disc you get backward pressure reducing the bubble rate.  With this method there is no backward rate and I found that the bubble rate increased.  Also as it seems to work much better the ppm is reached earlier.

As a guide I went from 60-75bpm down to 28-30bpm to still reach green in the DC

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (16 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

12 days on from inserting the needle wheel and I have some pictures for you, although like a fool I did a little pruning first to remove some damaged leaves that are still in there from my redecorating the house time where I lapsed my routine quite a lot.

This first pic is of the tank as it stands tonight/morning




This next pic shows the tank from an angle




And this one is from the armchair I sit in to watch TV (which you can just see a bit of top left of pic on the wall)




This pic is of the Zenkeri 'Red' leave to show the markings you get on a true Tiger Lotus.




And this pic of the Zenkeri 'Green' shows the markings much better




The Nympheae Rubra and other variants which are often called Tiger Lotus are much plainer leaved and don't display the flecs as you see in these pics, rather a more 'patchy' change of colour usually froom red to yellow.

As you can see the scape is growing in quite well and is now in its 6th month.  Who knows how much longer it will take to get to its final look but I am in no hurry hence why I reduced lighting and planted so many slow growers.  This will after all be a working scap in that it will be kept as it is for an indefinate period (hopefully many years) rather than be a temporary scape to be dismantled.

Thanks for reading
Andy


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## GreenNeedle (24 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

I have actually returned to the diffusor.  Why you may ask?

It wasn't for any problem with the powerjet but aesthetically it is noticeable and not very pretty whereas the glass ceramic is quite nice to look at.

I found that I had to clean it anyway as the holes would catch muck just like any filter or pump does.

I found that it was moving the substrate in the front left corner of the tank and I wondered about my 'barrier' being broken and cloudy clay Tropica substrate coming into contact wit the water.

I like my Nympheae stems and leaves to gently move in the water rather than be 'forced' into an outstretched position.

The final aspect was that my fish were all hanging out at the opposite end of the tank and I wasn't getting to see them.

So I cleaned the diffusor which weekly isn't really a hassle anyway and then did a complete clean of my filter (which only has half the media in it anyway)

Hopefully the fish will settle back into viewable positions soon.

Andy


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## beeky (24 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

This looks much better to me than the first one, there's much more structure to it. I find B. caroliniana very difficult to make it look right, maybe it's because I've never planted it in enough numbers though.

How is the ram situation?


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## GreenNeedle (25 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

The Rams are a sticky point and have been for quite a while.  

There is the female who was very dominant and starved her first mate to death.

Then I added a second male who she bullied for a month or so but he was much braver than his predecessor.

He is now gorgeous with incredibly long tail rays BUT since he got through the initial bullying he quite fancies a bit of 'how your father'!  It seems she doesn't and for the past month (he is now much more dominant) she has shown signs of stress.

Hopefully they can have a mariage of convenience. lol

Since the Powerjet was removed 2 days ago they have returned to chasing and being chased over the whole tank instead of just the right hand side. lol

Fingers crossed on a happy outcome.  Don't go buying the confetti yet though.

Andy


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## Themuleous (25 Mar 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Looking really nice matey


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## GreenNeedle (9 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Quite a few 'little' changes this week. lol

*CHANGE1*
Firstly I shall be pruning the Zenkeri quite a lot because they are blocking the circulation from carrying the CO2 bubbles around the tank.

I am removing one of the Zenkeri Reds and will be sending this to Dev and removing a couple of Farmer George's ridiculously low light fast growers (namely Blyxia Japonica) so that I can see into the tank and what is behind it. lol  2 of these are going to ..... memory deserts me but I do have the pm still so don't worry.

This should let the circulation return again (only 5.6x filtering on this tank remember).

I will be attempting to keep the Zenkeri lower from now on rather than letting them be 'the canopy'.  This should also let the various Balansae be seen more (both Farmer George's and some I already had from AM) There are 3 different types in there that I can see.  A crispulata thin leaved version, a smooth thin verison and then a smooth 1cm wide version.

*CHANGE2*
The UV has been disconnected and is doing very well on ebay (after no takers on here and a let down on TFF). This meant I could reduce the length of hose and remove an obstacle from my return.  This has improved the flow as expected and this was what I wanted to achieve.

*CHANGE3*
I saw the 'nano' diffusor in Sam's tank and though I'd give them a go seeing as they are Â£4 for 2.  At only 1.5cm wide, they are very inconspicuous and I can't see why they are supposed to be for Nanos.  I have one in there at the moment and it is working very well. The bubbles seem to be coming out smaller and are spread across the whole disc.  Time will tell if it is an improvement.

I am considering getting a Y splitter and using both in different positions of the tank.  Just a thought at the moment.  Might need speed controllers too.

*CHANGE4*
I am the latest to change over to TPN+ as a sole fertiliser as I don't think anyone who has seen the tanks that use this method (Not just George's) can argue with it's success.  It also seems the sensible thing to do seeing as I am using Tropica Substrate and they 'should' compliment each other.  I was using James' PMDD+P method which was working very well indeed but I was looking to try this method anyway.  I still have some dry ferts and TPN so I can always go back if I run out of money. lol 

Will post some before and after pics this weekend.

Andy


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## aaronnorth (10 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

I switched over to TPN+ as a sole fert about 3wk back and it is wrking well, not much growth in the 1st week but there is a difference starting to show.


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## GreenNeedle (13 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Pictures to follow as promised but a little update first.

After pondering for a while I finally decided to get another pair of Bolivian Rams seeing as the original female was getting far to stressed out at the males unwanted attention and they didn't look like forming a pair.

I also had to remove a huge amount of plants including literally enough Blyxia to fill a 5 Litre bucket!!!  Thanks again Farmer George.  If it hasn't all gone yet then this in in the for sale or swap section.  As of now 3 lots are gone.

I also removed one of the Zenkeri red plants and then discovered a Rubra bulb with small shoots growing at the bottom.  These have both gone to SteveUK (DevUK).

Various reasons why I removed most of this lot:
1 - The foreground was just too full and all the fish were swimming along the back.  A lot of the time the tank looked like it had no fish in it (this has had a magical effect in that they are all in the open again now)

2 - The blyxia is eventually going to be my background!!!! plant when I get my Nano and therefore I don't need too much of it in this scape.  Blyxia in a low light nano setup you say?  Well this is a low light tank so I'm sure it will work.

3 - The Lotus plants need retraining so they don't shoot for the sky.  I know that was the intention originally but they are disturbing the flow and also often stop the bubbles from the diffusor getting to the surface.  When they gather under the leaves they eventually turn into one huge bubble that the flow has no chance of dispersing.  So if you have a lotus, don't put it near your diffusor or make sure it doesn't reach up.

4- I had to fins room to put another smooth stone incase I get 2 pairs out of these 4 bolivians as they lay their eggs on them.

So I am now running with no UV, this is selling on ebay.  I have a nano diffusor which is working brilliantly.  The foreground is more open and the fish love it.  The ferts are now 4ml TPN+ each day (and with the amount of fish I stock I don't worry about phosphates being low.)

Pictures:
This is a pic of how the tank looked pre-pruning




And this is it after pruning




This is the new nano diffusor




The cardinals investigating the corner they have been hiding in for the last couple of months




The cardinals out and about again




This is the new female Ram




The new male Ram




The 'old' adult female Ram




And finally the 'old' male Ram (abosolutely stunning fish me thinks)




p.s.  This is 2/3rds of the Blyxia I removed!!!!




Thanks for reading

Andy


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## Steve Smith (14 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Wow, looking good Andy   Those rams look great.  How have they been since you added them?  I've never kept Rams, are they difficult or is it mainly getting them to pair up?


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## GreenNeedle (14 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

The info I got on them from cichlid forums was either to get 2 of each sex and wait for a pair then return the other 2, or get 2 of each sex and hope they form 2 pairs.

The bolivian specialist from Holland suggested the latter should work and that my tank should be OK with the planting style and hardscape so that's what I did.

I have found that as long as you get the ones from the LFS that look the most dominant then they are strong enough not to get bullied (starved) to death.  Once they reach adulthood they tend to decide a pecking order and stick with that.  So not really demanding, unlike Blue Rams they are pretty hardy!!

They are not really that aggressive like larger Cichlids and just nip each other playfully every now and again.  The funniest thing is when a pitbull 'lands' on their bloodworm and they give the plec a nip.  They look round at the Ram as if to say 'Is that all you've got?'

They are also the most sociable of fish in the tank IMO always coming to say hello when you are near.

Andy


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## Garuf (18 Apr 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Really good Andy, have you still got that blyxia I'd forgotten about that until now. Drop me a Pm.


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## GreenNeedle (31 May 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Not updated for a while as the tank has been taking a back seat for the last month or so, as have water changes (I've only done 1 this month.)  I had to repair my road bike and consequently started getting into 'real' road riding again.  not racing (yet) nor group riding (yet) but pushing 200 miles a week.  he, he.  If you see a very skinny beanpole like character in full lycra gear, helmet and silly sports glasses then thats me. lol.  Haven't been on the forum in this time either. 

This has of course led me to the inevitable algae outbreaks with the diffusor not being cleaned weekly.

I changed from TPN+ about 1 month ago too.  Wasn't doing it for me most likely due to my lazyness with water changes.  I think most people who are having success with it are much more strict with keeping to their water changes and also change more water.  I tend to aim for 10% twice weekly but more often than not do 20% weekly (or 20% monthly as this month.)  So not blaming the fert as results you see on this forum speak for themselves, just doesn't work with my unregimented water changing. lol

The last month I have reverted to JamesC's PMDD+P recipe.  I know this works for me as I ran this for 3 months prior to the TPN+ change.  Only problem is that I wanted to try the dry traces mixed into solution.  Bloody AE (who always seem to be out of stock of everything) are yes.....out of stock of trace powders.  Therefore I am having to use the TPN+ as well as JamesC's macro solution to provide me with the traces.  Not using as much of the TPN+ as when it was solo.  Once I get the dry traces is will be 6Â½ml macro and 3Â½ml micros.

The tank as I said had got a little algaefied which is receding again now, partly from the recipe working for me again and also that I am adding EasyCarbo daily (AE actually do have something on their shelves) just the recommended dosage, not higher as I don't see the point in blasting it.  I prefer to utilise it as food and let it slowly die off for the Otos and Pitbulls to finish.

Scapewise I am currently thinking about changing again.  A lot of the crypts are starting to send runners all over the place and I am getting taller ones coming through at the front.  The Blyxia is all but gone.  Got peeved off with it growing so fast and also was too close to the glass at the front whichisn't the best effect.  I am having a similar problem with the 'slow growing' narrow leaf Fern in that it is now pressing up against the glass.

I am thinking of maybe ditching all of the hardscape from this setup and going for something that has less of a footprint.  maybe branchy but don't want it to look too cliched because as you know I am not overly a fan of seeing every tank looking the same with redmoor style wood coming from AS etc. lol

It will be a Tropica/sand combo again as I think it works well.  The Zenkeri red and green will be going because they grow far too fast for a lazy man. lol  These will of course go on sale with their bulbs but not until I get the finances for a rescape sorted out.  All the crypts will remain and I can plan them to spread from the rear large to small so that it looks much more like an amphitheatre.

This along with my re-addiction to the road bike where I upgraded lots of bits as well as repairing so spent a couple of hundred on carbon bits (carbon is the crux of both my hobbies. lol) means that I will now be forgetting about the Nano or at least shelving it for a long while.

New substrate and hardscape is going to cost in the region of Â£60.  No plants needed really but I will be getting some Crypt Parva to put closer to the front.

I also broke both of the nano diffusors (they really are fragile and I shouldn't try handling them when I am drunk) and I have put the Rhinox 2000 back in.  It seems to have benefited from its 2 month lay off as it is working superbly again.

On the fish front the 2 adult bolivian rams spawned again but thefemale again pushed the male out and went along. needless to say they didn't make it.  I think the female ate them because no other fish dared to go near from her constant attacking and that were near.  It was funny when I was feeding first bites via syring close to the babies she would attack the syringe and boy do these little fish have some force.  You can quite literally feel the atack vibrate through the syringe. lol.

I will update with some pics later this week but won't really be updating too much on this scape now because I think its run its course really and also I shall be uping the mileage on the road.

Andy


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## GreenNeedle (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - Disaster Strikes (again)*

It seems this tank is jinxed! 
The last scape journal ended with a CO2 dump killing off the inhabitants.
I'm afraid this journal will be ending on a sour note too.

My wife rang me at work this morning and it seems that my 3 year old son woke up and came downstairs on his own (we've tried stairgates etc but he makes mincemeat of them and has done for over a year!.) I think he was trying to emulate his dad (me) by copying my adding ferts to the tank. This wouldn't have been a problem apart from the fact that the fish cabinet is locked. He improvised andused washing up liquid.

When my wife awoke she came downstairs to a tank of bubbles and many dead bodies on the substrate. Good job I wasn't there or I may be on the 6 O clock news tonight.

Anyway, we now have a plant only tank which I shall be growing on to fill out the amount of Crypts in there for the next scape. This will still be in a couple of months time or a little less because I can now run the CO2 into the yellow.

One thing I had been meaning to post was that Bolivians had got Cammalanus worms in their intestines which began to show through last week. They were still full of colour and energetic so I was pretty confidednt that given the right medicine that this could be cured through the food method. I had ordered some Panacur (Dog Wormer) because there are no longer any decent fish meds available for this kind of thing and therefore we have to resort to using medicines intended for different animals. Levisimole is the best but is darned hard to get hold of in the UK, even when asking a vet for a prescription. Sods Law, this arrived today when there are no fish now that need deworming!!.

Oh well. This time I am not considering giving in because this is avoidable. The children's bedroom now has a bolt on the outside. A fire risk it maybe, but I consider this less of a risk than them in the kitchen each morning eating anything they want, drinking god knows what and having access to any implements they want (the cupboard locks are also no good anymore)

I think I will send my 3 year old on some Krypton Factor type competitions so that he can win me some money. Maybe I will buy him a Rubik's cube tomorrow.

Was going to put some final pics on but this is what I have now. lol  I have moved some pieces about just to give the crypts more room.








Andy


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## Egmel (19 Jun 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - 03/04/08 Update with pics*

Sorry to hear about your losses   
Good luck with the 3yr old krypton factor wannabe!  I remember mum tying all the cupboard handle doors together with bungee cords, health and safety would have had a fit about that too! Hopefully yours will grow out of it soon.


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## LondonDragon (19 Jun 2008)

Hard luck  hope you get this on track in time, keep us posted


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (19 Jun 2008)

holy cow  very sorry mate... you can rebuild it tho!


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## Garuf (19 Jun 2008)

We have the technology...


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## REDSTEVEO (20 Jun 2008)

*Re: 'Under the forest canopy' - Disaster Strikes (again)*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> This wouldn't have been a problem apart from the fact that the fish cabinet is locked. He improvised andused washing up liquid.
> 
> When my wife awoke she came downstairs to a tank of bubbles and many dead bodies on the substrate. Good job I wasn't there or I may be on the 6 O clock news tonight.
> 
> Andy



Oh dear  I guess that meant an hour or two for the little one on the naughty stair?

Never mind, ten years from now you'll be able to look back and laugh at this (not)

Best of luck with the restart.

Steve.


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## Superman (20 Jun 2008)

Sorry to hear this Andy.

I'm sure you'll be back up and running soon.


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## beeky (20 Jun 2008)

Kids eh?

My three year old tipped a full pot of food into the tank the day before we moved house and due to packing etc I didn't notice until the morning. Result? 2 dead angels and a dead 9 yr old red tailed black shark.

They learn remarkably quickly. Mind could open the stair gates once he had the strength to counter the pressure. He can open stair gates/cupboard locks/fridge locks etc better than my inlaws!


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## GreenNeedle (20 Jun 2008)

My eldest was able to open those lift up stairgates within 2 weeks of standing up at 15 months or so. lol.  He's very big (not fat.  I mean tall) for his age.  We currently have those levr hand that you have to squeeze as well.  We got these about a week after he mastered the other ones.  Took him 2 weeks to get through these. lol

Thanks for the sympathetic comments guys but this tank doesn't need to get back on track.  I was planning a rescape in July/August and was just letting the Crypts all fill out for 2 months while I decide what I want to do.  No change in plan there.   Just got to decide on fish now.  Won't be thinking what fish will fit this scape because they will be fish I intend to keep through any scapes I have.

Andy


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## StevenA (21 Jun 2008)

Sorry to hear about the problems Andy. About a year ago my 3 year old decided to tip over my Hagen natural Co2 system thingy, i noticed it later that day so i stood it upright again, swore a couple of times, but did'nt think much about it. Then the next day, a Saturday, i remember it very well, i walked into the living room, just as the lights came on, on the aquarium, and my 12 year old son said " oh my god dad, look at the fish tank!" I turned round to see a tank so cloudy i could not see any fish or plants, apart from a few loaches and Cory's in the bottom inch or so! What a great day i spent changing water, and panicking etc.... I lost 3 Frontosa's, and about 7 other fish due to that. The cupboard under the tank was swiftly padlocked after that incident. C'est la vie, and we live and learn i suppose


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## planter (22 Jun 2008)

Try having your 3 year old lift the canister clip on your Fluval on you 4 ft REEF tank whilst only the Mrs is at home


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## GreenNeedle (22 Jun 2008)

Lol.  Mrs as at home may as well be none at home. he, he. (expecting barage of abuse now)
My wife doesn't seem to understand possible danger whereas I am often a little over-precautionary.

Twas for this very reason I bought a cabinet and then fitted a cupboard lock on the front a year ago to keep meddling hands away from the multibank of plugs, CO2 and filter. lol.  This lock has worked so far.  And 3 days in the bolt on the children's door has not been breached.

Bloody mess they create in there until they are released though.  And bloody banging on the door whilst shouting as loud as they can.  Aaargh.  TB would say this is the 'trade off'. he, he.

Andy


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## aaronnorth (22 Jun 2008)

my brother and sister ae 8 and 10 so no worries, but my mum is a childminder and has little kids, she makes sure they are insight though, i have a FE waiting to be set uup, better get that padlocked down


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