# Help with setup please!



## Stryda (30 Apr 2012)

Hello guys and girls, I'm beginning to setup my first planted tank, having changed from keeping african cichlids and wanting to setup a planted discus tank. I've been reading a fair bit about growing plants, but was wanting a bit of personal advice. I have a 45 gallon tank, with roughly 70watts of light from 2 t8's. Im using tesco cat litter as substrate, capped with play sand, and fert tablets in the substrate. I'm wondering If I need to still use any liquid ferts, or as I only have standard lighting and no co2 will this not effect growth at all? Also, if I was to add diy co2 and liquid ferts would I risk getting algae with this lighting, or not?   
I'm looking specifically at TNC complete fert, is this good? 
Any other suggestions/advice greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Nick


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Apr 2012)

Hey mate, you should always use ferts in the water column, the tabs are good too.  I wouldnt advise diy co2 on this tank.  It is only effective in smaller tanks and is also unstable as the yeast reacts with the sugars which can lead to problems such as BBA.
TNC complete ticks all the boxes.
Look forward to seeing this come together, planted discus tank is on my 'one day' list.


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## Stryda (30 Apr 2012)

Hey thanks for the advice!...TNC complete is on the way!  8) 
Also, it reccommends 1ml per 10litres of water a week, with my setup would this be ok, or would the plants benefit more from maybe twice a week, or due to lack of co2 and lighting would this have no effect and possibly aid algae growth?


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## Tim Harrison (30 Apr 2012)

> Im using tesco cat litter as substrate, capped with play sand



I'd be a bit wary of using cat litter under play sand, it has a tendency to rise above denser heavier substrate when disturbed. 

Also play sand, being very fine grained, will severely limit water circulation to the cat litter below and therefore gas exchange and nutrient transference from the water column. One of the advantages of cat litter is that it has a high CEC and therefore is able to store nutrients in a form that plants can utilize, or uptake through their roots, which combined with water column dosing gives you the best of both worlds, not withstanding ferts tabs.

As for TNC complete it's a good move but if you're going low-energy you will not need to use so much, I would use anything from 1/10 to 1/4 of the recommended dose depending on bio-load, frequency of water changes and planting density. Although if this gets a little uneconomical you might want to consider making your own liquid feed from dry salts http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm. 

Check out the links below for more info on the low-energy approach.

As for lighting it should be fine, good reflectors perhaps wouldn't go amiss if you haven't already got some.


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## Stryda (1 May 2012)

Excellent, thanks for the advice. With regards to the substrate, I've already bought a bag of cat litter and a bag of sand, could I use the sand at the bottom and the cat litter on top, as it saves me going out and buying another cat litter and wasting the bag of sand, or will this not look too good, or am I best starting the planted tank with a good substrate and just go buy another bag of cat litter?


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## Quetzalcoatl (1 May 2012)

I wouldn`t bother capping the sand with litter. If it`s depth you are after then for the sake of a couple of £`s I`d go and buy another bag of litter. Ditch the sand, and try and get your money refunded.  
Your plant`s roots will prefer the CEC capability of the litter than that of the sand. Plus the sand will compact and ultimately trap all kinds of nasty gases in there, not good if you are going to be planting and re planting quite a bit. Which I imagine you will being your first planted tank.  
Have you started rinsing the litter yet? Be prepared. It requires rinsing. Alot of rinsing. 
Good luck, and welcome to the forum.


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## Stryda (1 May 2012)

Righty'o cat litter all the way it is then! And yeh...first planted tank...i think their could be a few possible rescapes   I have indeed started rinsing the cat litter! Its had about 15 complete washes and been left to soak in water for several days   looks like another trip to tesco tonight for me then


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## spyder (1 May 2012)

Quetzalcoatl said:
			
		

> I wouldn`t bother capping the sand with litter. If it`s depth you are after then for the sake of a couple of £`s I`d go and buy another bag of litter.



Yup, cat litter all the way.


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## Stryda (3 May 2012)

Wow...I've been to tesco, and they don't have any in, with no idea when they will have some in next, I've also tried ringing about 5 other superstores near to me, and none of them have any left    just my luck...


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## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

If you are using cat litter be prepared to wash it, then wash it again.... and again.... and again... and then a bit more, then after that it will need washing, and more washing and yet more washing.... I washed 1.5bags for 3 hours and it STILL gave off the perfume.  After adding it to the tank it then created the most revolting smell imaginable.  And YES, lol, I was using the same cat litter so many other people seem to have had success with.  It also wafts around the tank like fairy dust.  Personally, I would use cat litter for its intended purpose and buy a decent substrate.  Getting the substrate wrong is the one biggest regret I have and the one main reason I have intentions of rescaping even though I now have Colombo florabase capped with Unipac sand.  Just some food for thought from the anti cat litter side of the equation    Nice size tank you have there though.  Should be good with the right planning


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## Stryda (3 May 2012)

I'm afraid I'm just a poor student, and though I'd love to use some top quality aquatic soil, it'd cost me a bomb for it compared to cat litter, plus I'm trying to keep the costs down as I'm saving most my money for some nice discus .
I do however need some urgent advice...I ordered my plants the other day, assuming I would have my substrate sorted by now, and they arrived yesterday. However now I only have one bag of cat litter washed and ready to go in the tank, but it will only cover half of my tank, so what should I do with my plants? I've left them in a bucket sideways, but am concerned about any crypts inverting. Do you think I'm best putting the cat litter in the tank now, and just covering half the tank, and planting all the plants on that side 'temporarily' until I can get some more cat litter (hopefully this weekend) or should I leave the plants in the bucket?


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## spyder (3 May 2012)

Plants should be fine in the bucket for a few days. Stand them upright if possible, avoid bright lights and if you have a small internal filter to hand that will help. If no filter then just pop the bucket under a running tap every day to freshen things up in there. People perform 3-4 day blackouts and plants can spend upto a week in transit without major issues.



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> If you are using cat litter be prepared to wash it, then wash it again.... and again.... and again... and then a bit more, then after that it will need washing, and more washing and yet more washing.... I washed 1.5bags for 3 hours and it STILL gave off the perfume.  After adding it to the tank it then created the most revolting smell imaginable.  And YES, lol, I was using the same cat litter so many other people seem to have had success with.  It also wafts around the tank like fairy dust.



Boy oh boy you hate cat litter huh? I remember your thread about the smell but I thought the conclusion was a piece of manky wood?   

Once I'd added the litter to the tank I was concerned as I could still smell it but after planting and flooding it went completely. I've had none wafting around like fairy dust either but I did have a little dusty surface scum for a week or two.

I found the trick to washing it was in a bucket and use a sieve. Keep the tap running into the bucket and swirl the litter in the sieve in the water filled bucket. Dump it out into a clean bucket and scoop up more from the water filled bucket. Rinse and repeat, literally.


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## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> Plants should be fine in the bucket for a few days. Stand them upright if possible, avoid bright lights and if you have a small internal filter to hand that will help. If no filter then just pop the bucket under a running tap every day to freshen things up in there. People perform 3-4 day blackouts and plants can spend upto a week in transit without major issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Spyder.  Nope it wasn't the wood.  We tested that, and the JBL AB+ . Final conclusion was it can only have been the cat litter.  Perhaps it was USED and then repacked


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## spyder (3 May 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Final conclusion was it can only have been the cat litter.  Perhaps it was USED and then repacked



Eewww


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## sr20det (14 May 2012)

I have the same, i washed for about 30 mins, then left to soak overnight, and the next day washed it for about an hour, getting most of the dust out, and then leaving the tap running over the substrate whilst overflowing for another hour, and washing again.  it was a little murky no matter how hard I tried, but always settled clear in a short time.

Once satisfied, taking a wiff, and not smelling much, I set about putting in my tank, then filled with some tank water from another tank.  Left it for a hour or two, then went back and had a sniff, and don’t know if it was paranoya, but could smell something fragrant   

I think I will fill and get the pump running, I would have liked to maybe get some carbon in there, to maybe help clean the water.


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