# Help with my new led lighting



## Alastair (8 Dec 2012)

Hi everyone, in the lead up to my to be journal of a bigger puddle, I've decided to sell my ati sunpower and opt for an led fixture. 
The questions I want to ask is this, my new tank is going to be 5ft x5ft, and the LEDs are these (but not these exact ones) http://www.buy-electrical.co.uk/content ... _x_3w.html
So what I wanted to know is each unit is equivalent to 1 x 50w halogen light, but what does this compare to in t5?? 
I'm thinking that 150-200watt of t5 would of kept my new tank in a low light category so how many of each of these led units would I need to get 200watt equivalent of t5s?? I have no idea what halogen lights compare to in t5s or is it the same? I know lumens from these are much less than a t5. 

The new unit will be an mdf square board framed about 3ft above the tank, so would say 5 of these be ok??? They give off a 30 degree spread...... 


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## Antipofish (8 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Hey Alastair, my 1000ND has 10 3w LED's in so each of those units is marginally less than 1 x 1000ND.  Not sure if that helps.  But each of my tiles should cover 2' x 2'  Your tank is 5' x 5' and I would really have said you want 8 or 9 x 1000ND's for that (holy sh1t thats almost £2500 worth of TMC kit 1).  That would mean you want about 30 of those units.  (I hope the maths is right, but its late and Im a bit tired).


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## foxfish (9 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

I have been trying out GU10 LEDs for a couple of years now, this is what I think.....
Overall I am very disappointed in the bulbs performance! I have tried several makes in a variety of Ws, at the moment, over my lounge tank I have 3 x 11 w leds of three different colours, I use them to great effect by individually switching them on in sequence at 15min intervals (via timers) & then actually switching them off just after my T5s come on!
My disappointment comes from - the lack of actual light they produce compared to the equivalent w T5s - the short life span of the bulbs (not all but maybe 15% of the bulbs I have bought in the last two years have failed) 
However, if i were in your position, I would consider using a combination of 11w Leds & 11w megaman bulbs. 

I love these lights because ... they easily outperform the same w LEDs & are a much better match against a 50w halogen also, they have a slow start light a MT light taking about 30 secs to reach full power http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-x-Megaman-1 ... 35baa6c545
I would be looking at using 4 x megermans for the main light source & using maybe 12 LEDs for colour effect & sunrise sunset & moon light.


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## foxfish (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Any more thoughts on this Alistair?


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## Alastair (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> Any more thoughts on this Alistair?



Yeah was just having a quick think, if I was to skip using LEDs, and opted for the mega mans, would 5 or 6 of these still be classed as low light and give me enough growth still?? 
I've noticed too that non seem to be above 4000kelvin so would appear very yellow?? 


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## foxfish (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Well I have a feeling that megerman is just a trade name - try a search for low energy bulbs & look out for same type of element.... I saw these in 6500k http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GU10-LOW-ENER ... 53e945eef9
My best advice would be to buy an 11w LED & a 11w megaman & see what you think but I would still recommend a combination as the fitting are same & pretty cheap in B&Q in fact you can but both types of bulb from B&Q anyway.
B&Q sell GU10 fitting for about £20 for a pack of ten.


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## Alastair (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

What do you think of these??? Do I need ip65 rated or will these be relatively safe above the new tank?? 
I'm clueless on building a lighting rig I'd need some help on a how to but for ten its not bad 

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... 5026825612


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## foxfish (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

OK mate, well I can probably help you a bit... the main issue with all these latest low energy bright light bulbs is they are much bigger than than halogen bulbs! well not so much bigger but longer, so they stick out of the standard fittings by 10-25mm depending on the actual bulb. This may or may not be an issue to you.
Are you going to build the wooden overhead box the lights sit in?
There is an easy option by buying a ready made multi bulb spot light unit, again plenty on display in B&Q, some of them come already fitted with the megaman style bulbs too.
I might be able to show you some examples but I am not at home for a few more days.


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## Alastair (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> OK mate, well I can probably help you a bit... the main issue with all these latest low energy bright light bulbs is they are much bigger than than halogen bulbs! well not so much bigger but longer, so they stick out of the standard fittings by 10-25mm depending on the actual bulb. This may or may not be an issue to you.
> Are you going to build the wooden overhead box the lights sit in?
> There is an easy option by buying a ready made multi bulb spot light unit, again plenty on display in B&Q, some of them come already fitted with the megaman style bulbs too.
> I might be able to show you some examples but I am not at home for a few more days.



Some examples would be great yes. 

Well the link I showed then is ten gu10 units but with the 11watt bulbs included where as some of the other units such as this number 281029412578 is a halogen unit. So do the normal halogen units allow the 11w energy savers to be fitted?? 
Normally the led downlight are 29 each but I can get ten for less than 20 pound on ebay. Or the second item are 3.69 each I'd just have to purchase seperate 11w energy bulbs then and what ever wiring etc I'd need to rig it all up. 
If I do it ill build a basic 3ftx3ft board from mdf, mount how ever many units I think should be suitable then create a frame around the outside of the main board so even if the energy bulbs stick out a bit you'd not really notice then. 




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## foxfish (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Yes - Gu10 fittings suitable for halogen bulbs will take low energy Gu10 bulbs in exactly the same way.
You could use 15-18mm MDF although it is a heavy material, you would need a base like you say & a frame that sticks about 100mm above & perhaps 50mm below to give effect. You can also buy eyeball fitting that swivel to any angle so you could group the light in a smaller area if you wanted too.


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## Alastair (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> Yes - Gu10 fittings suitable for halogen bulbs will take low energy Gu10 bulbs in exactly the same way.
> You could use 15-18mm MDF although it is a heavy material, you would need a base like you say & a frame that sticks about 100mm above & perhaps 50mm below to give effect. You can also buy eyeball fitting that swivel to any angle so you could group the light in a smaller area if you wanted too.



Thanks mate. So what else would I need other than the ten lights in the first link I showed to rig this all up to run from a plug socket then?? Do you think all ten would be over kill if so how many do you recommend?? 
And Do you think they'll be suitable?? Or should I opt for a gu10 halogen unit and just buy the megamans. I've spotted the tilt gu10s too for 3.99 each on eBay. 

Ps I can always pick a lighter wood which would weigh less 

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## foxfish (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

The light are just wired in line from one to the next, you dont have to wire them all or you can do them in batches with independent plugs & timers. I dont know just how many you can join in one loop though?
Your link looks to good to be true (I notice they dont post to Guernsey either) I have no idea about the bulbs performance but at that price you cant really loose!
You are obversely going to have to experiment a bit to achieve want you want....


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## Alastair (10 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Well the seller said they're fine to take the megamans too, I just haven't a clue how to wire them up and how many to go for. I'm thinking between 6 and 8. 
I was never good at electrics so don't know where to start 


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## somethingfishy (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Don't know how to pm from my phone but will send you my number tonight if you wanna pick my brains about the electrics. Haha i still can't grow plants that well but I've been doing an ok job at pretending to be a sparky 

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## Alastair (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> Don't know how to pm from my phone but will send you my number tonight if you wanna pick my brains about the electrics. Haha i still can't grow plants that well but I've been doing an ok job at pretending to be a sparky
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



Ha ha yes please mate lol. 


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## Antipofish (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> Don't know how to pm from my phone but will send you my number tonight if you wanna pick my brains about the electrics. Haha i still can't grow plants that well but I've been doing an ok job at pretending to be a sparky
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2



Too good since they want you so much you get called out on Sundays


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## Danny (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Interesting thread guys, I am thinking of doing the same sort of thing for a new marine tank rather than forking out £500+ on a led unit.

I will be trying it over a just shy of 2ft cube. I have seen the purple too which are a close wavelength to the ati purple plus tubes so may give those a go as well as the blue.


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## Danny (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Check this out,all you need to know is here.


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## Antipofish (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Danny said:
			
		

> Check this out,all you need to know is here.



Where ?


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## Danny (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Ooops sorry mate forgot the link lol

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.p ... pic=267432


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## Danny (11 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

I will be using the x3 3w cree led gu10's in 6500k and blue 50/50 ratio


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Yeah I read up on that thread when I'd not long posted my initial questions 


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## Antipofish (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

So you made up your mind what size to go for matey ?  My LED's are gone now btw.  I'm getting a Colourplus to see what it looks like in addition to the T5's in the Trigon.


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> So you made up your mind what size to go for matey ?  My LED's are gone now btw.  I'm getting a Colourplus to see what it looks like in addition to the T5's in the Trigon.



It's a cross between a 5x4 or 4x4. I've taped out an outline of the bigger tank, I think a 5x5 would just swallow up my dining room. It would mean I have to sell my current table and get a little round dining table or a fold away one and not too sure I want that look lol. 


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## Antipofish (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

I think 5x4 would be nicer in any case mate   No point going so big you end up resenting the space it takes up.  Is there any reason you want to go shallow again ? 5' x 3' x 2' sounds nice


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## sanj (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Im thinking on the lines of  Maxspect Razor 8oook model...


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Im thinking on the lines of  Maxspect Razor 8oook model...



:-0 that's a nice unit but very pricey lol. One unit matches a 400w halide, that's some power 


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## Antipofish (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

How about a bank of three Ecotech Radions ?


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## Aron_Dip (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Hi bud like we chatted about here is a quick drawing of the spec you gave me hope this helps


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Aron_Dip said:
			
		

> Hi bud like we chatted about here is a quick drawing of the spec you gave me hope this helps



Sweet mate thanks for that  


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## Aron_Dip (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

just really basic mate tbh but would be effective .. remember some sort of vents along top or on ether side


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Aron_Dip said:
			
		

> just really basic mate tbh but would be effective .. remember some sort of vents along top or on ether side


I'd leave big cut outs on the top anyway to allow the heat out. What wood would you suggest that would be nice and light. 


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## Danny (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

If that is for gu10's I do not think they are close enough to each other to blend properly. Reading the thread I posted it seems they need to be almost touching and 10-12" above the water surface to get a proper blend and not the light beam effect.

Plus unless you plan on at least 60 degree optics I do not think it will be enough bulbs to have a good spread with 30 degree optics used.......

I am only going of my conclusions from that thread though so no actual idea in real life lol


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## Aron_Dip (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Aron_Dip said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd use MDF mate at them sizes 12mm with the Centre and outer supports out off 18mm that will be ok.. B&Q Do a free cutting service, I could do you a cutting list and get them to cut the lot for you there


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## Alastair (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Danny said:
			
		

> If that is for gu10's I do not think they are close enough to each other to blend properly. Reading the thread I posted it seems they need to be almost touching and 10-12" above the water surface to get a proper blend and not the light beam effect.
> 
> Plus unless you plan on at least 60 degree optics I do not think it will be enough bulbs to have a good spread with 30 degree optics used.......
> 
> I am only going of my conclusions from that thread though so no actual idea in real life lol



Hi Danny, it's only going above a very low tech set up and on a very shallow tank, it's not like the marine tanks where the aim is to get as much light ficus and par down into the tank. There's would be far less water fir the light to have to penetrate for one, and plants used would be low light plants also. No co2 etc. there is always room to add more lights into that as I've been told on a seperate circuit to add extra light to it but I don't want massive light on this new tank, that's why my current set up the lighting is fixed really high off the tank 

Plus there will be a mixture of 11w megaman bulbs along with 5 or so 3x3 watt Cree gu10s too. The higher the unit anyway the spread will be more just not as focused but I'm not aiming for huge amounts of light 

Also in the link you posted, his formula he gives for how many lights needed is based on the 3w LEDs not 9w LEDs or 11w megamans. 
Tank length divide by 2 minus one so that would mean on a 4 x 4 for example it would be 118 needed of 3w LEDs, now if using 9 watts then you'd divide this figure by 3 which would mean 39 bulbs were needed, then take into account I'm going low light so I'd not even need that much really 

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## Danny (12 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Damn lol forgot it was for a planted tank pmsl. Been spending to much time on the marine forums lol


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## Antipofish (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Danny said:
			
		

> Damn lol forgot it was for a planted tank pmsl. Been spending to much time on the marine forums lol



Quick ! Cancel your memberships to the salty forums before the dark side takes over your life.  Once you go too far, there is no coming back to the sanity of plants.


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## Alastair (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				Danny said:
			
		

> Damn lol forgot it was for a planted tank pmsl. Been spending to much time on the marine forums lol



Lmao. I've been on that forum a bit the last few days. I've just added some more info into my previous post too dan regarding how many lights needed from his equation too as your opting for triple the wattage of each bulb compared to his 3w per bulb  


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## OllieNZ (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Hi Alastair,
Here is a couple of pics from one of my old setups I used 2x3w gu10s mounted 12" above the setup. The bulbs were a single 3w chip not sure on the optics 30 deg maybe? The tank is 60x35x35cm.






You can just see the rig in this one, pretty crude



Even manged to grow hairgrass


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## Alastair (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				OllieNZ said:
			
		

> Hi Alastair,
> Here is a couple of pics from one of my old setups I used 2x3w gu10s mounted 12" above the setup. The bulbs were a single 3w chip not sure on the optics 30 deg maybe? The tank is 60x35x35cm.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks ollie, they look cool thank you. I don't think I'd even need 25 in that case given the effect you got off of those. 
I'm definitely going with these for sure no doubt 
Thank you  
Great pics by the way loved the shallow shots 


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## OllieNZ (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*

Tbh I think that was max radius for those bulbs stuff was growing but only just in the very corners. I think 1 per square foot would be ideal.


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## Alastair (13 Dec 2012)

*Re: Help with my new led lighting*



			
				OllieNZ said:
			
		

> Tbh I think that was max radius for those bulbs stuff was growing but only just in the very corners. I think 1 per square foot would be ideal.



Ill stick with twenty to be safe then lol. Can always raise the unit higher if need be  


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## Danny (19 Dec 2012)

Any more news on these mate, I am 70/30 these over t5's. I have found a x4 24w t5 unit for a good price but still really fancy the idea of the LED's and the options of really making my own exact lighting colour plus the option of adding to the lighting so easily if and when wanted.

blahblahblahblah it I am going with these lol Time to make my shopping list lol Oh and I will be using 33 to begin with in three rows of 11, now I have the tank I think 4 rows may be needed for a god coverage so 44 bulbs but I will see. The tank is 610x510x450

I will be making the unit into a floating shelf style and will post up pics when I get started.

PS 
It will be a marine tank hense so much lighting.


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## Alastair (19 Dec 2012)

I was just going to say 44 bulbs over that size tank is overkill lol, but marine I suppose., 
I still think you shouldn't need that many 


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## foxfish (19 Dec 2012)

Crikey Danny, 400w of LED lighting over a a 2' cube!
If you used 44 9w gu10 bulbs that would cost at least £500 in bulbs alone!


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## Danny (19 Dec 2012)

I was playing with bulb layouts for a few hours last night to try and get an idea of how to arrange them lol, I am just not sure about the coverage I will get using two rows of 11 or even three with 30 degree optics because of the tank being 510 wide......I was looking at some of the top end led units on the market and they seem to use 40-60 degree optics so I am considering that.

It would cost £112.08 for x20 3x1w blue x20 3x1w white and x40 holders from china with shipping so not bad.


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## foxfish (19 Dec 2012)

Well you are talking about 3w bulbs not 9w bulbs & I can also tell you that there can be a huge variation in bulb quality & brightness!
I am using 3 x 9w Philips LEDs over a 95cm x 60cm tank, there seems to be enough coverage to me but I have tried several makes, some are pretty useless & some very short lived!!
First pic shows LEDs only, not really enough light but good coverage...


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## Danny (19 Dec 2012)

I have been going over the thread on that forum again, think I have decided on 30 3x1w bulbs with 30degree optics in 5x6 rows which will give me a 300x250 of bulbs, make that 12" above the surface and it should be perfect coverage I think......

Do you know what optics are on the ones you use?


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## foxfish (20 Dec 2012)

I did a little experiment today with a few bulbs, to be honest it is not really a true representation but, perhaps of some interest anyway!
It seems to me the claims that a 9w led will match a 50w halogen are way off the mark as in reality the halogen is way brighter.
The megaman bulbs give a much wider spreed of light, a much more subdued & diffused light but are still pretty bright in the 9w version.
The 9w LED in cool white is very nice & sharp but has a narrow beam.
The 50w halogen is by far the brightest & offers a bright spot but also throws out a broad beam that lights up a really big area.
I would say that 5 x 9w LEDs would easily outperform a 50 w halogen but comparing a single 9w led to a 50w halogen is crazy!

The light is actually shining onto a black piece of cloth.


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## Danny (20 Dec 2012)

The only problem with the halogen is the heat, those things get burning hot!! actually burnt my fingers on them when changing bulbs in the house before I realised how hot they got and how fast.

The 7w led defo looks the best to me.


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## Alastair (20 Dec 2012)

Danny said:


> The only problem with the halogen is the heat, those things get burning hot!! actually burnt my fingers on them when changing bulbs in the house before I realised how hot they got and how fast.
> 
> The 7w led defo looks the best to me.



Don't forget also that the megamans may be a lower kelvin rating usually 3000k so will give a yellow hue. 
Thanks for the pics foxfish. Is that led 7w or 9w?? 
I don't need megamans as just got a job lot of 4000k 11ws for 30 on eBay but might add in two of the LEDs 


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## foxfish (20 Dec 2012)

Oh yes my mistake...LED is a 9w cool white, megermans are 2700k.
I still like the megermans as a contrast especially for sunrise sunset effect.
I noted today that B&Q have a nice display unit showing all thier range of low energy bulbs while they are actually lit up, they are promoting a new 5w LED @ £8 per bulb & a new bright colour change bulb too.


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## Alastair (5 Jan 2013)

Just to add onto this, is it advisable to not use the wood stain on my lighting rig to match the cabinet?? I'm thinking of any evaporation causing the varnish to drip into the tank or will leaving the mdf untreated be fine?? It will be a good 90 cm above the water surface anyway  


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## foxfish (5 Jan 2013)

Polyurethane is safe as are most paints when cured hard, I would not worry in the least.


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## Alastair (5 Jan 2013)

foxfish said:


> Polyurethane is safe as are most paints when cured hard, I would not worry in the least.



Thanks mate. 


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