# Best Place for CO2 reactor in tank



## rt964 (5 Jul 2011)

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum and am after some advice (after lurking around and reading lots of very useful articles).  I've got a planted discus tank that is in need of a bit of tweaking to help the plants grow better and to reduce the amount of algae I get.  As such, I'm going to play with moving the spray bars, but was wondering where the best place would be to place the CO2 reactor.

To give some background, the tank is 60" long x 18" wide x 24" deep, so approx 400L.  The diary of the tank build can be found here: http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=70070.  I have two external filters (1 eheim 2076, and 1 aquamanta 400) with the spray bars mounted at opposite ends of the tank pointing in to the middle.  Currently, the CO2 reactor is mounted on the back wall of the tank, next to one of the filter intakes (the eheim one).  My thinking is that I will re-locate the spray bars across the back wall of the tank, but am not sure where to move the CO2 reactor to to get a better dispersement of the gas throughout the tank.  I'm also not convinced I have enough circulation going on and am thinking about adding a powerhead.  Any thoughts on location of the reactor and whether I need a powerhead would be gratefully received.

A bit more on the tank - the substrate is about 1.5" of aquabasis covered with about 2-3" of JBl Manado.  I'm running 4 x 54w T5's (2 x Tropic and 2 x Color) which I've got set up to come on in mixed pairs, the first from 12pm until 7pm and the other pair from 2pm until 8pm.  The CO2 is a JBL kit with solenoid and comes on at 11am and runs until 7pm.  The tank is quite well planted (and stocked !), and I've been using Ferropol weekly (topping up with each water change) and then Ferropol 24 dosed daily.  I carry out water changes 3 times a week, changing approx 80L each time.  When doing the water changes, I vacuum the substrate (by holding the syphon just above the surface of the substrate).  Fish-wise, I've got 12 discus, 4 bolivian rams, 12 (or so) cardinal tetra, 8 rummy nose tetra, 8 ottos, 3 sterbai corys, 4 siamese algae eaters, a starlight plec, and a black ghost knife fish.  I think.  Well, you know, sometimes you lose count and those fish never stay still long enough to count them !!   

Anyway, any thoughts, comments, guidance, etc. much appreciated.

Thanks

Richard


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## Alastair (5 Jul 2011)

Only me again ha. Is it the jbl taifun reactor that you have? The spiral ladder? I think as long as it's in an area of high flow then position wise it shouldn't matter. How ever if your thinking of getting a powerhead, maybe try switching the reactor for a glass diffuser placed underneath the powerhead so it chops the co2 up and blows it forwards. Or put the rector in the centre at the back. 
Also, I'd possibly try going down the ei dry salts route for fertilisers, it's so much cheaper and very easy to make up a 4 week macro and trace solutions for your size tank. You'd need the same amounts as myself.


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## mdhardy01 (6 Jul 2011)

Moving the spraybars to the back wall is an excellent start ?the next thing would be to get rid if the jbl reactor and get yourself a up inline diffuser this goes on the outlet pipe of the most powerful filter (eheim) and will give much better diffusion around the tank 
My tank is of similar size 60/24/24 so I would suggest a koralia between the spraybars to ensure no dead spots 
Hope this helps 
Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rt964 (6 Jul 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> Only me again ha. Is it the jbl taifun reactor that you have? The spiral ladder? I think as long as it's in an area of high flow then position wise it shouldn't matter. How ever if your thinking of getting a powerhead, maybe try switching the reactor for a glass diffuser placed underneath the powerhead so it chops the co2 up and blows it forwards. Or put the rector in the centre at the back.
> Also, I'd possibly try going down the ei dry salts route for fertilisers, it's so much cheaper and very easy to make up a 4 week macro and trace solutions for your size tank. You'd need the same amounts as myself.



Yes, it's the jbl taifun spiral reactor with 16 sections in it (almost at it's maximum !).  I've got a jbl bubble counter as well, which is showing 1 bubble per second (not enough ?).  I've moved the spray bars to the back wall today, so we'll see how that goes for a week or so before deciding whether to add a powerhead (Hydor Koralia Nano 1600 a good one ?).

I'm reading up on the ei ferts routine and am trying to decide whether to take the plunge with that routine, or whether to go with the Tropica Plant Nutrition Plus solution ... decisions, decisions !


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## rt964 (6 Jul 2011)

mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> Moving the spraybars to the back wall is an excellent start


done !



			
				mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> the next thing would be to get rid if the jbl reactor and get yourself a up inline diffuser this goes on the outlet pipe of the most powerful filter (eheim) and will give much better diffusion around the tank


I've been reading about those ... any recommendations ? 



			
				mdhardy01 said:
			
		

> My tank is of similar size 60/24/24 so I would suggest a koralia between the spraybars to ensure no dead spots


As in my previous post, this is on my radar and was thinking about adding the Koralia Nano 1600 between the 2 spray bars.  Thoughts ?

Cheers,

Richard


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## Alastair (6 Jul 2011)

ei route is very easy when your making up a 4week solution of each, and costs pennies in comparison to things like tropica plant nutrition plus. 
if you google james planted tank, there is a guide on there to make your own tropica plus. 
with the jbl taifun, im sure there not meant to have a bubble counter on them, the bubbles are counted at the bottom of them as they enter it. bubble counters dont work right on them i dont think.

as for up atomizers, aqua essentials sell them, or look on ebay and make sure they are specific to your tube diamater. i think just running only one through on filter on a tank of that size would mean much more growth on that side of the tank. consider getting two and splitting them, or placing spray bars one above the other. or, with the koralia in the middle, have the co2 going through a glass diffuser below it and it will be blown forwards


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## rt964 (7 Jul 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> ei route is very easy when your making up a 4week solution of each, and costs pennies in comparison to things like tropica plant nutrition plus.
> if you google james planted tank, there is a guide on there to make your own tropica plus.


I've been reading that guide, along with various others and am suitably confused by it all.  I'm sure it's not as complicated as some of the articles make out !



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> with the jbl taifun, im sure there not meant to have a bubble counter on them, the bubbles are counted at the bottom of them as they enter it. bubble counters dont work right on them i dont think.


I wasn't aware of that - I can't see anything in the instructions (I know, it's normally only a last resort to actually read the instructions !) to say that you shouldn't ?



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> as for up atomizers, aqua essentials sell them, or look on ebay and make sure they are specific to your tube diamater. i think just running only one through on filter on a tank of that size would mean much more growth on that side of the tank. consider getting two and splitting them, or placing spray bars one above the other. or, with the koralia in the middle, have the co2 going through a glass diffuser below it and it will be blown forwards


I'm going to see how the revised flow works for a week, but at the moment, I think a Koralia Nano will be joining the family, more to help get a better distribution of the CO2 around the tank than anything else.  At this point the Taifun will be retired and I'll get an up atomizer ... it's either that or an inline diffuser ... ahhh, decisions, decisions


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## greenink (7 Jul 2011)

rt964 said:
			
		

> .  At this point the Taifun will be retired and I'll get an up atomizer ... it's either that or an inline diffuser ... ahhh, decisions, decisions



The up atomiser is an inline diffuser. You need a reg with 1.7 bar pressure though to make it work, and be careful about no leaks in the tubing, so worth checking your regulator can do this before buying. Will save you a fortune on CO2 in the long run. 

Have seen others in this situation make sure the filter return is on the opposite side to each spraybar, so it's circulating water across the tank. Might be worth trying. 


My 'see through' tank challenge http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15878


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## rt964 (8 Jul 2011)

mikeappleby said:
			
		

> The up atomiser is an inline diffuser.



Doh !   

See, I told you I still had my L-plates on ... I had the up atomiser pictured in my head as one of those sintered glass disc diffusers - should have looked at google first !


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## Alastair (8 Jul 2011)

your tank would need roughly the same ei dosing as mine, aquariumplantfood do an EI starter pack, i find it easier to make up a 4 week liquid solution of a macro and a trace and just add alternate days of the week. Definetely worth it and plants look so much better. Ill gladly give you in teaspoons how much of each salt youd need for 4 week batch. it baffled me slightly at first but with help off someone on here i got my head round it


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## rt964 (8 Jul 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> yIll gladly give you in teaspoons how much of each salt youd need for 4 week batch. it baffled me slightly at first but with help off someone on here i got my head round it


That would be really helpful !  I was going to go with the amounts from James' Planted Tank ?


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## foxfish (8 Jul 2011)

You might like to look here too http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/calcul ... ive-index/


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## rt964 (8 Jul 2011)

I just took a look at this calculator and now I'm really confused, this one's telling me I need to add 215ml of the macro 3 times a week and 215ml of the micro 3 times a week, whereas with James' Planted Tank, it's saying I should be adding 40ml macro 3 times a week and 20ml micro 3 times a week ??


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## foxfish (8 Jul 2011)

Well dont forget this method is an "estimated index" so dont worry to much about being spot on however as Ceg helped design that particular index you can look here http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm
I found the calculator very easy to follow - add your volume - press calculate & there is the answer.
I used grams & make up 10 dose solutions, I have been using this calculator for a couple of months now & it works very well.


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## rt964 (8 Jul 2011)

true ... after all isn't the underlying idea of EI to over-dose (as opposed to overdose) the nutrients so the plant's growth isn't inhibited by a lack of nutrients ?


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## foxfish (8 Jul 2011)

Yep that is right but it is not the ferts or the lighting that causes problems it is all about the distribution of sufficient C02.
I think that the UP atomisers are great for folk learning about planted tanks as they produce a very fine mist that can be seen drifting around the tank.
Well drifting is what you want but in fact the co2 is always trying to escape like bubbles in a fizzy drink so that is the issue!
Anyway the atomiser is a good guide as to how successful your flow is working for you   
I dont know how your fish would like strong flow from a power head or if you would need a very strong flow through a full length spray bar?
However, you only need to get that complete flow durring the gas on period.


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## Alastair (9 Jul 2011)

this is what i use mate worked out based on clives ei tutorial. yours should be identical

13.5 tsp KNO3
4.5 tsp KH2PO4
36 tsp MgSO4
All in one 1000ml bottle.
If you used 1000ml tap water,  divide that by 12, for 12 equal doses (dose 3 times a week for 4 weeks).
Therefore
1000/12 = 83.3 ml per dose or 80ml
For your Trace you will need 3 tsp in 500ml tap water, in a 500ml different bottle.
 500/8 = 62.5ml per dose or 60ml 2 times a week
someone helped me out with this and it works perfect for my tank

saturday water change with macro
sunday trace
monday macro
tuesday trace
wednesday macro
thur rest
frid rest


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## rt964 (10 Jul 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> this is what i use mate worked out based on clives ei tutorial. yours should be identical
> 
> 13.5 tsp KNO3
> 4.5 tsp KH2PO4
> ...



Thanks, Alastair ... just about to make up my first batch of macro and micro !


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## ceg4048 (10 Jul 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> ... Ceg helped design that particular index you can look here http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm


Hi mate,
   To be accurate, I had no part in the design of the EI methodology. This is strictly a concept developed by Tom Barr alone. I merely studied and reinterpreted his documentation in order to demystify the method and to help make his concepts more "accessible", kind of like how Ubuntu reinterprets the hard core Debian Linux  

Cheers,


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## foxfish (10 Jul 2011)

Hi mate - apologies if my poor grammar suggested otherwise  :?


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## ceg4048 (11 Jul 2011)

No worries mate. I just didn't want Tom coming after me later on wielding Excalibur....or a crickett bat...  

Cheers,


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