# BBA on in-vitro moss few days after planting



## palcente (10 Feb 2022)

Hi,

I re-scaped last week on Saturday and decided to take it very easy this time around.

I bought brand new plants - most of them 1-2 grow. I used crushed lava rock + tropica substrate and capped it all with fluval soil.

I run co2/light for 7 hours per day (co2 starting 2 hours before lights go on)  and get a PH drop from 8.1 to around 7 before lights go on - I have a calibrated co2 probe hooked in and capture real time data 24/7.

Since I started last Saturday I have been doing 50% water changes daily before co2 kicks in.

I keep the light 30cm above tank and run them at 25% (WRGB2) intensity and I have not been dosing anything yet - wanted to wait at least a week.

Today I noticed little white-ish (what I believe is) BBA clumps growing out of the flame moss. Moss is glowing fine and no plants show any issues. No other plants or hardscape are affected by this.

I have other type of moss (weeping) closer to the light and it's clean.

Could you advise what to do in this situation - it's very early and possibly can do something before it spreads.

Many thanks,

Matt

PS. I forgot to add I plugged in cycled filter and have 12 amano shrimp, 5 ottocinclus and 9 harlequin rasbora in this tank.







white spots in the bottom right corner are clumps of what looks like bba


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## plantnoobdude (10 Feb 2022)

palcente said:


> Hi,
> 
> I re-scaped last week on Saturday and decided to take it very easy this time around.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but i do not see any BBA at all. could it just be the moss adapting to your tank and growing in a different way from the tips? great looking tank by the way!


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## palcente (10 Feb 2022)

plantnoobdude said:


> I'm sorry, but i do not see any BBA at all. could it just be the moss adapting to your tank and growing in a different way from the tips? great looking tank by the way!


I have stolen my missus phone and took better quality pictures - please let me know if you can see it now.


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## dw1305 (10 Feb 2022)

Hi all, 


palcente said:


> please let me know if you can see it now.


I can and it does look like BBA.

cheers Darrel


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## castle (10 Feb 2022)

I don't think there is consensus on where, and or what causes BBA. 

However that doesn't look that new to me, _me_, being an armchair - local system - expert on BBA. Did the other tank have BBA and you've spread it by the filter? Could BBA have been carried over on the shrimp? or maybe you netted some out when you caught them? 

If BBA has come through in 1-2 grow pots, someone, and I don't mean you,  has a problem.


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## palcente (10 Feb 2022)

castle said:


> I don't think there is consensus on where, and or what causes BBA.
> 
> However that doesn't look that new to me, _me_, being an armchair - local system - expert on BBA. Did the other tank have BBA and you've spread it by the filter? Could BBA have been carried over on the shrimp? or maybe you netted some out when you caught them?
> 
> If BBA has come through in 1-2 grow pots, someone, and I don't mean you,  has a problem.



other tank had different type of algae and I have never seen this type in any of my tanks... I applied EasyCarbo locally and turned down the light from 25% to 20%, anyone has any other great ideas?

Should I pump some ferts maybe ? Affected moss does not look unhealthy at all... I have no idea what the problem is...


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## MichaelJ (10 Feb 2022)

castle said:


> If BBA has come through in 1-2 grow pots, someone, and I don't mean you,  has a problem.


If you dont see it anywhere else and those Tropica 1-2 pots just came in I suspect the BBA might have been there already.  I would just nip those strains off right away - BBA can be really hard to get rid off if it gains a foothold.

If it starts to spread its a good indication you might have fluctuating CO2, too much light intensity, not enough ferts... or any conceivable combination of those factors. I suppose waste buildup is off the table given the rigorous WC.

Cheers,
Michael


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## plantnoobdude (10 Feb 2022)

I had that exact same algae on moss i bought from 1-2 grow tropica. it never really went out of control to other plants or hardscape, it just stayed on moss, eventually got sick of it and threw it out!


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## jaypeecee (10 Feb 2022)

palcente said:


> I have stolen my missus phone and took better quality pictures - please let me know if you can see it now.


Hi @palcente 

Yes, it looks like you may have the beginnings of BBA growth. There are several current threads dealing with BBA. I suggest you look around and try to get some ideas about eliminating this. Also, use the Search facility at the top RHS - it's the magnifying glass.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (10 Feb 2022)

castle said:


> I don't think there is consensus on where, and or what causes BBA.


Hi @castle 

Until _very _recently, I would have agreed with you. But, _please_ take a look around at some of the current BBA threads. I feel that we're getting a _much better_ overall picture of the causes of BBA.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (10 Feb 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> If you dont see it anywhere else and those Tropica 1-2 pots just came in I suspect the BBA might have been there already.


Hi @MichaelJ

Yes, it's common to have algae and Cyano hitch a lift on aquarium plants, etc. But, I've always found that a 10 minute dip in potassium permanganate (KMnO4) solution kills off any impostors. It's never had any adverse effects on my plants but I've not tried every plant species that exists. The recommendation that I've always used is to make up the KMnO4 solution to the colour of a rosé wine. That's starting with the KMnO4 crystals. Just be careful as it can stain clothing, etc.

JPC


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## MichaelJ (10 Feb 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @MichaelJ
> 
> Yes, it's common to have algae and Cyano hitch a lift on aquarium plants, etc. But, I've always found that a 10 minute dip in potassium permanganate (KMnO4) solution kills off any impostors. It's never had any adverse effects on my plants but I've not tried every plant species that exists. The recommendation that I've always used is to make up the KMnO4 solution to the colour of a rosé wine. That's starting with the KMnO4 crystals. Just be careful as it can stain clothing, etc.
> 
> JPC


Hi @jaypeecee  That KMnO4  is something I will look into for next time I introduce new plants 👍  What (H2O:KMnO4) solution ratio do you recommend? 

Cheers,
Michael


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## jaypeecee (10 Feb 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Hi @jaypeecee That KMnO4 is something I will look into for next time I introduce new plants 👍


Hi @MichaelJ 

I have used that technique for around 15 years or more. Sometimes when I make up the KMnO4 solution I get a bit more scientific and measure the Redox/ORP. It's because KMnO4 is a strong oxidizing agent that makes it effective as a disinfectant.

JPC


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## MichaelJ (10 Feb 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @MichaelJ
> 
> I have used that technique for around 15 years or more. Sometimes when I make up the KMnO4 solution I get a bit more scientific and measure the Redox/ORP. It's because KMnO4 is a strong oxidizing agent that makes it effective as a disinfectant.
> 
> JPC


Hi @jaypeecee ,  What (H2O:KMnO4) solution ratio do you recommend?

Cheers,
Michael


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## Maf 2500 (10 Feb 2022)

I would worry that the in-vitro plants in the 1-2 grow cups are more sensitive to potassium permanganate compared to full size plants (particularly the mosses). Just a hunch, and quite willing to be proved wrong if anyone has tried it successfully...


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## Hufsa (10 Feb 2022)

@dw1305 does not recommend any chemical treatments for mosses if I recall correctly, something about them not having a cuticle?


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## dw1305 (11 Feb 2022)

Hi all, 


Hufsa said:


> if I recall correctly, something about them not having a cuticle?


<"That is right"> it was in a thread talking about mosses and damage from a Twinstar unit. The leaves (microphylls) don't have an epidermis and/or cuticle so are much more prone to damage by some oxidising agents. 

Mosses are a bit funny in their <"response to herbicides as well">, and thrive on some that kill vascular plants.

cheers Darrel


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## Hanuman (11 Feb 2022)

In my experience there is only one way to control BBA:
1. Make sure your C02 is not fluctuating and that you are providing enough of it;
2. Keep your tank/filter clean to avoid organics;
3. Make sure you have enough water circulation.

This in fact applies to most algae with some level of variation.

BBA will most of the time grow on slow growing plants and/or plant which are not healthy so keep an eye on plants which are not doing well and remove any dying leaves or infected ones.

When you increase your light make sure you also increase CO2 accordingly.


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## castle (11 Feb 2022)

I have had tanks where the floor is a decomposing mess, with plenty of life in and above. No BBA. BOD in these systems is high, and I've had to effectively run a shower head above these tanks. Why is it that my tubs in the greenhouse, in full fun, don't see any BBA, even when they're all containing inches of decomposing leaf litter.

I don't really want to turn this into my tank/ you tank BBA discussion. But there is so many factors, I think the only commonality our systems have is that they contain water. 

That said, I have never had stable CO2, or high water circulation - though, having seen BBA latch itself onto my pump outlets, I am dubious.


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## jaypeecee (13 Feb 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Hi @jaypeecee That KMnO4 is something I will look into for next time I introduce new plants 👍 What (H2O:KMnO4) solution ratio do you recommend?


Hi @MichaelJ 

If you're starting with KMnO4 crystals, it's best to just add the crystals one at a time to whatever volume of water you are using. The crystals that I use are approximately 1mm^3 in volume. As I said previously, I make up the solution to a colour that is similar to that of a rosé wine_._ Stir the mixture well after each crystal addition to ensure they dissolve fully.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (13 Feb 2022)

castle said:


> I don't really want to turn this into my tank/ you tank BBA discussion. But there is so many factors, I think the only commonality our systems have is that they contain water.


Hi @castle

Yes, there are many factors to consider. But, fortunately, a_* lot *_of research has been carried out on BBA (Audouinella). One heck of a lot. So, the task in hand is to determine which factors are relevant and important in the home aquarium environment. I have no reason to think that we can't arrive at a solution to this problem. The sooner we do this, the better - then I want to return to the small (!) matter of Cyanobacteria. 

JPC


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