# Does anybody here use glutaraldehyde?



## Drouthie (6 Jul 2009)

If so where do you purchase it from? I want to find a source that will sell a low % mixture, preferentially under 10%.
I know how to make it a polymer and also how to check if it has polymerised so I'm not too worried about tank saftey, I just don't want to be handling a high percentage of it in the home environment.


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## mi5haha (7 Jul 2009)

We buy glutaraldehyde from local chemicals stores (not UK). Usually two types, 25% and 50%, AR purity, packed in a 500ml brown colored glass bottle (with 250ml content only). 

We use RO water to dilute with a graded dropper (2-3ml). No need to wear any protective things if you open the bottle cap carefully. At most, wearing a pair kitchen gloves. Drop the amount of glutaraldehyde into a container (e.g. an empty coke bottle), and then add the RO water. You need to figure out the right amount of it by its percentage, and the amount of RO water before hand. 

It has a smell of apple like. I do the mixing almost every two or three week. It looks that a 250ml bottle of 25% can last for a year.


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## JamesC (7 Jul 2009)

When I searched on Google for it a while ago I found a few UK based places that sold it online. You need to create an account so I never bothered to take it further. It's actually fairly cheap and you can get it in 500ml quantities of 25% and 50% solutions. It does go off over time (polymerises). Increasing the pH to 8.5 speeds up this poymerisation.

Unless you know exactly what you are doing I would urge tremendous caution before trying this at home. I have a young family and decided that it was far too much of a risk to have this stuff around at home as I'm not 100% sure of the health consequences of using it. As I don't use any liquid carbons, I only wanted to test it anyway out of curiousity.

James


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## Drouthie (7 Jul 2009)

I do have a fair idea of what I'm doing and I can do the dilution in a fume cupboard, I was going to polymerise it as well in order to decrease the risk of storing it at home. I've got no kids to worry about, I've decided there is no way kids could be allowed in my flat due to chemicals/alcohol/electricity/fertilisers in juice bottles in the fridge/low cupboards ect. 

Thanks for telling me where to get it I was struggling to find somewhere.


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## JamesC (7 Jul 2009)

Here's one place - http://www.agarscientific.com/catalogue/action_catalogue.asp?spx=1&sat=2&saa=11&jumpto=14FIGL

Out of interest how are you going to polymerize it? Is it just a case of using an alkaline buffer and leaving it to stand? I would have thought that depending on the polymer formed plants might have a problem using long chain polymers.

James


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## Brenmuk (7 Jul 2009)

I've just googled it and there's lots of warnings about its use - see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

and 

http://www.tedpella.com/msds_html/18411msd.htm

but i suppose this applies more to the concentrated stuff than to the ready made stuff like excel.


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## JamesC (7 Jul 2009)

Brenmuk said:
			
		

> but i suppose this applies more to the concentrated stuff than to the ready made stuff like excel.



Seachem's Excel using an isomer of glutaraldehyde which they claim is a lot safer. More about it here - http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6854

James


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## aaronnorth (7 Jul 2009)

JamesC said:
			
		

> Brenmuk said:
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> ...



Hi,

can you just confirm what an isomer is? 
Is it when the same atom has a different mass number? Or is it different chemistry terms? (that providing i have it right for physics, my brain is overloading with science at the minute  )


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## JamesC (7 Jul 2009)

Wikipedia to the rescue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer. Basically a compound that has the same chemical formula but a different structure.

James


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## Drouthie (7 Jul 2009)

I planned to do an aldol reaction using acid not alkali because it will be easier to make an acid at home that will not take part in a competing reaction. But an alkali condition would also work, the pH change is just to alter the protonation state of the aldehydes to encourage a reaction. Then do freeze thaw cycles. If the stuff isn't research grade for fixing microscope slides there is a fair chance it is already partially polymerised.  I read in a review of microscope techniques that glutaraldehyde used for tanning leather is often polymerised to some extent. 

I will check the polymersation/monomer state using the ratio of absorbance of 235nm to 280nm. Unfortunately I don't know an easy/cheap way to test polymer length. But I don't really intend it to be a carbon source just an algaecide. Although I'm debating whether it needs to be polymerised extensively or intentionally anyway.

It's not nice stuff but I plan to dilute it a lot to reduce the risks.

I'm going to have to make an algae tank to test it!


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## Drouthie (7 Jul 2009)

I forgot to say to mi5haha that if you can smell it it is at a vapour concentration that can cause irritation to your nose and throat (mucousal membranes) so be careful!


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## Brenmuk (7 Jul 2009)

Drouthie said:
			
		

> But I don't really intend it to be a carbon source just an algaecide



Interesting comment - is glutaraldehyde an algaecide or does it help suppress algae by promoting good plant growth?
I have no idea myself but i kinda got the impression that it was the latter.


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## JamesC (7 Jul 2009)

Brenmuk said:
			
		

> is glutaraldehyde an algaecide or does it help suppress algae by promoting good plant growth?


Depending on the concentration it kills most things. At the recommended dose it is an algaecide but also kills some plants as well so is a sort of herbicide. Keep upping the dose and it'll start killing more things.

James


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## Drouthie (7 Jul 2009)

Yeah that plan is to get between 0.1 and 0.5 ppm to kill of the simpler organisms (algae) but leave the higher organisms safe (shrimp, plants, fish and myself). I might kill off a bit of vallis if I'm unlucky. I'm not going to just dunk it in my tank, I'll set up a plant/algae test tank. It's more of an entertainment thing than anything else for me, I like experiments.


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## aaronnorth (7 Jul 2009)

Brenmuk said:
			
		

> Drouthie said:
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plants use various chemical processes to convert it into CO2/ carbn and algae does not have that ability so instead it becomes toxic.

Thanks for the link James, just going to have a read, or i may save it for tomorrow!


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## Redshark1 (29 Jul 2009)

Tell my Green Water that it's an algicide! (using easy-carbo at rec. dose)

I'm having to use UV for the first time ever (well, it's my first Green Water incident ever too). 

I couldn't find a HOT Magnum/Diatom Filter without spending Â£75 and ordering from the US. If you know different please let me know.

Thanks.


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## aaronnorth (29 Jul 2009)

Redshark1 said:
			
		

> Tell my Green Water that it's an algicide! (using easy-carbo at rec. dose)
> 
> I'm having to use UV for the first time ever (well, it's my first Green Water incident ever too).
> 
> ...




It isnt as effective on green water, GSA & GDA, mainly the hair types it works best on

I would of done an 80% water change, followed by a 3day blackout and another 80% water after. That usually clears it.


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## plantbrain (30 Jul 2009)

They have 1 small species here, but the species we have of algae can handle much more.

http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/pubs/fulltext ... 050003.pdf

Most fish etc, inverts generally will be more sensitive, are about 5-10ppm, so 2ppm is the decent target.
2ppm drops rapidly however if dosed just 1x a day and is zero after 24 hours.

If you keep a stable concentration, then these values are much lower as far as toxicity(see results) and have much more exposure. However, aquarist do not do this. So the actual exposure is much lower/less for fish, plants, algae and humans. It breaks down really fast. Which is good and bad depending on your view and goal.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/hx07d33kyqtpefpa/



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## mi5haha (31 Jul 2009)

Drouthie said:
			
		

> I forgot to say to mi5haha that if you can smell it it is at a vapour concentration that can cause irritation to your nose and throat (mucousal membranes) so be careful!



Thanks a lot for your advise, Drouthie. I will try to stay at the upper wind position.

Actually 25% of liquid itself does not have much smell. 2% of diluted has a light smell like green apples.


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## Drouthie (1 Aug 2009)

Thanks Tom those papers are really interesting.


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