# Getting rid of the mist.



## AverageWhiteBloke (4 Apr 2012)

Has anyone had any experience using a TMC AquaGro CO2 Power Diffuser 1000 outside of the tank and do you still get mist in there? I was thinking of going down the road of no mist in the tank and currently using an atomiser. Cheapest option all round would be one of these connected to a fluval 2 with 12mm hose I have lying around possibly not bothering with media so I get some time out of it. My worry is it looks a bit ropey on the hose connections with possible leaks and breakable also will a mist still come out of this?


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## plantbrain (5 Apr 2012)

I think in line with the canister will be your best option, I just add CO2 to the return pump in my sump. I use to run a needle wheel and then shoot that into the return or a Reactor thingy.........but I have more stable CO2 this way.

Clean and keep things in good shape and check often with CO2.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2012)

Excuse the ignorance but do you mean just adding co2 to the inlet of canister filter itself rather than a reactor? My current set up is less than ideal. I have an Aqua-one AR850 which is systemised and not best suited for planted. Not sure if you are familiar with that system but in short what it does is pump the water with a submerged pump up to a spray bar in the lid where a wet-dry trickle is situated which then just gravity feeds back into the tank. Good for oxygen exchange and very easy maintenance not so good for de-gassing off co2   
I have however managed to get round this by having a co2 atomiser under a koralia in the tank on 24/7on 1bps, I appreciate plants don't need co2 when lights are off but if I knock mine off for a period I can't seem to get the DC back in colour by lights on regardless of the injection rate. Using this method I have managed to keep 2 DC's in good colour permanently at either end of the tank and the problems I had with BBA have cleared to just a bit on hardscape here and there. The filter is so effective that at nights even when the plants are giving off co2 the filter will de-gas it all off and leave me with a bright blue DC by morning that's difficult to bring back. For the tank a same background level of co2 seems to be best than trying to get no co2 to target before lights on. (side note my regulator also won't work on with a solenoid but that's another story   )
Downside of this is I never see the tank without it being full of tiny bubbles, I was thinking with a bit of modding to the lid I could do away with the Koralia and atomiser and use my fluval 2 to mix co2 outside the tank still 24/7 which will give better viewing. 
Ideally a big external canister connected to an aqua medic reactor would be ideal but these are austere times


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## John S (5 Apr 2012)

I gave up with the trickle in the end due to CO2 issues. I managed to shoehorn the eheim pipework in without modding the hood. It was an expense I could have done without but was well worth it.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2012)

Yes Dave I wish I had done that from the stsrt tbh. I may be changing this set up altogether shortly. The one I'm thinking of getting the profile 850 comes with a filter which is a bit small so trying to haggle a bigger filter on the deal. I'm intrigued as to how you shoe horned the eheim in though in case I keep this tank.


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## John S (5 Apr 2012)

I will take some pictures when I do a water change tonight and PM you.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2012)

Much appreciated Dave thanks.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2012)

Shame really I was just getting to grips with this tank. Unfortunately I've moved house and this is still at my old house. Can't make my mind up whether to start from scratch or do something with this. Probably will change though and next time go for reactor rather than atomiser.


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## plantbrain (7 Apr 2012)

I think you'd be much better off not paying attention to the DC, and watch the plants, and the effects on them relative to the needle valve. Adjust the valve maybe 1/20th of turn up till you hit a really nice growth and no issues behaviorally with any livestock.

Do that slow and steady.

They make atomizers that fit in line or on the intakes of Canister filters.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Apr 2012)

Thanks Tom, I have turned up the co2 slightly and will keep an eye on the progress perhaps turning up a bit more in the next week or so. I don't have much fear about gassing fish as I mentioned the system is very good of getting rid of co2. Another good reason for turning it up is because the mist is in the tank 24/7 I wonder how much is getting into the DC's without a break thus making the level of co2 look higher than actual. Having it switching off would give the dc's a bit of a break at least.

Back to the original post though, I don't like fixing something that isn't broke but I think I'll see if I can fit an external canister and an Aquamedic 1000 into my budget. The mist is just not my cup of tea really. Anybody any experience with the AM 1000, I'm looking to get both the inside the cabinet if at all possible which looks like it may be a bit awkward with some restrictive looking bends  :? Any advice on an affordable canister appreciated as well for a 165ltr aquarium. I'm planning to do away with the sytemised filter that came with it so the canister will be the only filter with a koralia for added movement. I thought the eheim classic would be ideal as the inlet is on the bottom of the can making it ideal for fitting the 370mm AM1000 in the cabinet but unfortunately I have since learned that the AM goes on the outlet not the inlet


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Apr 2012)

I did the right thing and searched the board for reactor stuff which also raised my awareness of the sera 1000 reactor. Upto now both seem to have some pros and cons,  sera one is considerably cheaper and there seems to be an issue with the co2 inlet pipe being brittle which I notice one member has got round by putting a join in the tubing negating the need to pull off this tube when cleaning   another plus side is that connections are both on the top of the unit which gives me a bit more room in the cabinet to maneuver. 

Reading the posts the am 1000 seems to be a more robust system but the size and position of the outlets are definitely not going to help my cause. Anyone have anything to add on the sera? Some of the posts seem to be quite old and couldn't really find anything about the longevity of the unit or maintenance just lots to do with whether it worked,noise and flow reduction etc. 

Has anyone tried the 500 version? The bumf on it reckons its good for up to a 600ltr tank, looking at the specs the difference in length of the two units is 3inch. It also reckons a min filter turnover of 500 which rules my old fluval 2 out.  Still looking for a good deal on a filter if anyone has come across one.


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## Alastair (17 Apr 2012)

Ive had experience of both the sera 1000 and the am1000. And, if I'm honest, the sera wins hands down. 
You get minimal flow reduction, compared to the am1000 which cuts flow dramatically also the am I found to make a fair splashing noise inside but, that never really bothered me. Also like you say the sera connects both the inlet and outlet at the top compared to the AM which is too and bottom again reducing flow. Both are good don't get me wrong but I'd go for the sera. 
I'd again recommend attaching a small piece if say 4 to 5 inch length co2 tube , with a needle valve which you'd then leave permanently attached to the co2 inlet to the sera as yes it is brittle if pulled too much. I happened to break it. 
I also know an online retailer that sells them way cheaper than elsewhere. 
You have to get the nack of getting the trapped air out initially but it's great after that 


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## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Apr 2012)

thanks Alistair, I think it was a few of your posts I was reading actually. Also davem commented that since ditching his aqua one built in filter he's never looked back and to be honest I think I should have done the same instead of trying to work round it. Funny how searching the board seems to come up with similar posts to my own all seem to be related to not wanting mist anymore. I've had a look at the science of each method but ultimately I just can't get away with the mist.  Please let me know of the cheapest deal I have found one in Wales not sure if its same one? 
How do you feel about the 500 model? Will it be adequate with 165ltrs? My dilemma here is I also need a canister my spare hydor 20 not up to the job I reckon and was looking at 1250 aquaone or the ecco 300. Some posts are saying to fast a filter makes the co2 impellers noisy! The 1250 is 1250 lph empty or 850 loaded and the ecco  is 750 but doesn't state if that's working turnover. I'm trying to keep everything within a budget and theses filters fit. Big difference is the aqua use 32Watts while the ecco just 8. 

If its only tenner difference between the sera 500 and 1000 should I go the bigger and get the aqua? Any suggestions for canister filters appreciated I'm gettting lost with it all


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## Alastair (17 Apr 2012)

Personally I'd go for the 1000 model mate. There's relatively small anyway.  The noise of the inpellor I found was stopped if you turn the impeller upside down  
Have pm'd you too  


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## Calzone (17 Apr 2012)

I have the AM1000, and while its ok, it has its issues:
1. Its designed actually for fairly low rate filters, and comes with 12mm hose connections.  Perversely most users fit it to larger tanks with more powerful filters.  This causes problems as these usually have 16mm hoses so your hoses dont fit well (needs jubilee clips and still at risk of leaking) and you lose huge flow.  Also if you run high flow through the unit CO2 bubbles will be entrained into the outlet flow.  This means you have to fit it with media which further reduces flow.  So in other words, if you have 12mm hoses its probably fine (but maybe overspecified), if you have 16mm hoses its a huge compromise.
2. Its unwieldy, and the instructions for fitting into a cabinet are poor.  Frankly I couldnt work it out and I'm a qualified engineer.
3.  Accessing the interior is a pain -  the hex shaped inlets are too big for an easy spanner but tend to seize up and are very hard to open.  Plus the top one is totally impeded by the CO2 inlet and gas bleed.
4. the CO2 inlet pipe has no valve, so you have to fit your own.  Small thing but at this price not good.
5. Its expensive.
6.  That said, it will dissolve a lot of gas if you don't mind the flow reduction, and the painful maintenance.  I installed Eheim double taps at high cost and it was worth it otherwise this is a pain to manage.

As an alternative, look at this german website.  Look using google chrome and it will offer to translate mostly ok for you.  They have one with a bypass which is the one to go for if your filter is powerful.  It looks like a better design all round, albeit for more money.  I add that I have no experience of this in use, but on the face of it it has attractive features.  And they do one that's smaller and cheaper for less money.
http://www.aquamas.de/products/CO2-...reaktor-mit-Bypass-bis-ca-3000L-komplett.html


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## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Apr 2012)

Thanks for your input guys, I think the Sera 1000 is the way forward. Again with the German reactor the hose connection on the bottom looks like a nightmare for plumbing inside a cabinet. The outlet on the top of the filter will need to bend round and back quite severely as height is restricted.

The filter is the issue, I'm trying to take into account the reduction in flow but without going over the top. I can only deal with the figures on spec sheets but they are probably well out depending on how the canister is packed, head of water, amount of bends I need to put in to get it plumbed etc. Researching the Sera not enough flow can cause issues as well as too much. I feel like goldilocks of filters at the minute   

Hopefully I can get everything from one retailer but the options in my budget fall between the aqua-one 1250 and the ecco 300. I have to say I have owned a aqua-one system for probably 8 years now and only changed tubes in that time not even an impeller so as robustness goes their stuff is well put together BUT to be fair the Aqua-one systemised set up has very little moving parts compared to a canister which is probably a strong point for their set ups. If it isn't the impeller or actual pump there's nothing else to break. Just a shame that the trickle can't be sealed to prevent de-gassing or it would be a belting set up.

On other hand the Eheim uses less power, has a reputation for robustness and is slightly cheaper. Downside is does that less power use equate to compromising output and there is slightly more room for media in the aqua-one.

Hmm decisions decisions, just looking through the specs the reactor 500 needs 500lph and the 1000 needs 700lph with no max output.

The ecco 300 stats are..
Technical data EHEIM ecco pro 300:
- product type: 2036020
- for aquariua from 160 up to 300 litres
- Power consumption: 230 V/ 50 Hz 8 W
- Pump output: 750 l/h
- Pump head: 1,9 m
- Filter volume 2.8 l + 0.3 l (prefilter)
- Canister volume: 5.0 l
- Dimesnions: 205 x 416 mm ( diameter x height)

No sign if that's with empty canister comes in at £89.99

The aqua one  Advance range...
Model         Max flow Rate             Aquarium         Working turnover            Power         Canister Volume     price 
1050            1050 L/hr                   200L               750 L/hr                       32 Watt                  8.5 L           £84.99
1250            1250 L/hr                   250l                850 L/hr                       32 Watt                  12L             £94.99

There are also non-advance models which have less media capacity but only use 20 watts of power and don't appear to be self priming but for a £5 less the advance also comes with a 4 year guarantee.


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## Alastair (17 Apr 2012)

Aqua one then matey 


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## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Apr 2012)

Just ordered the 1250 aqua-one and the sera 1000, should be here tomorrow  Watch this space


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## howanic (17 Apr 2012)

I have a TMC aquagro on the outlet of an eheim classic. Setting it up was a bit of a PITA. Because of the position of the in and outlets on the aquagro it means that the outlet for the eheim is at a right angle. It doesn't seem to restrict flow but its not ideal. My cabinet is big so I can position things to keep out kinks as much a possible but it still looks like a mess.

Ive just literally reconnected my co2 as have been running tank low tech since last summer and can't really remember if there was a mist or not. I don't think there is once it settles, but i'll be able to let you know for definite later on.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Apr 2012)

They were also something I considered. I hope this works out, I sort of got dragged down the road of a misty tank by firstly the cheapness of going about it and the fact that loads of tiny bubbles clinging to the leaves will undoubtedly be absorbed by the plants better. I always thought reactors were cumbersome and out of my price range but looking a bit deeper there are some alternatives. Ideally I would have nothing in the tank. Now with my increased filter capacity I'm sort of wishing I got an in-line heater as well   

For me the the ultimate satisfaction I get from my tank after the work that gets put in is to sit in my chair and think that looks mint. I can't help think that it would look better without the bubbles. When we strive to achieve a snap shot of nature it detracts a bit to have all these bubbles floating about IMO. Even friends who know nothing about tanks have asked can I not knock the bubbles off which is saying something.

Unfortunately as we strive more and more to get gas dissolved in our tanks and equipment gets better at physically doing it it seems to be at the cost of the overall picture.

Only time will tell if I have made the right move.


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## howanic (18 Apr 2012)

I had the aquagro running all day yesterday with a bubble stream too fast to count and the drop checker remains the same colour. I know it works as I have almost gassed fish in the past but nothing is happening now. 

I've changed the reagent in the drop checker just incase, although the plants are not pearling and the fish are fine. Taken all components apart, cleaned, checked and changed the non-return valve. 

I'm home all day today so I can turn the co2 up high and monitor it closely. Hopefully this will work, but I think possibly you have made a good choice in avoiding this product. 

Let me know how the sera goes as think I may need to switch.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (18 Apr 2012)

I will do mate, mine should come today but because I have a bit of modding of the lid to do will probably leave it until the weekend to set up when I can keep an eye out for problems all day. My tank is currently residing at another house so if I set it up in the evening I won't get to see it again until the next evening so any problems could be a disaster.

I did a lot of researching before buying this one and so far there are little negative comments which can be resolved with a bit of tinkering.
On the plus side the price is right, seems to do what its supposed to and out of the ones I have looked at look the least problematic when plumbing into an average size cabinet to hide it. The cons are break-ability so it might need some kid gloves when handling.

It has already been well documented in this board by various users but I'm hoping to get some pics and results in here to refresh for people thinking of getting one with some follow up. One thing I couldn't ascertain is how long it will last. Plenty of people saying it did it's job but can't find anything along the lines of it getting noisy or leaking after some time.


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## howanic (18 Apr 2012)

Nothing at all wrong with the aquagro. Checked again and there was a huge leak in the bubble counter joint. Have removed bubble counter altogether and it is working fine. It is noisy though.

To answer your original question, there is a mist, but hopefully all will be ok with the sera.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (18 Apr 2012)

Glad you got it sorted can  my stuff has just turned up. Only had a quick look to tease myself because I'm still at work but my first impression is OMG. Sounds like a stupid thing considering I did look at the dimension before buying but this filter is a monster! I hope I haven't went over the top. Lookes like its going to take some fancy plumbing skills and a few extra holes in the cabinet to get them running side by side. My fish have no idea what's coming their way  I would say the filter is about a third the size of my tank. Ill probably have to up my ferts.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 Apr 2012)

Managed to get everything plumbed in what a nightmare nothing seemed to go right  I spent all day Saturday didn't like how I done it so changed it all on Sundays. I still don't think it running right, it's very difficult to see through the brown plastic reactor but using a light I can't see any bubbles traveling down through it. When I knock off the filter the co2 seems to escape into the top part in the outflow which I guess shouldn't be happening. It's difficult to see whether the bubbles are just getting ejected from the spray bar as I've done two large water changes so the whole tank is like a glass of champagne at the minute.  Not having much look with my tank at the minute. If they are just getting a worl round then through out I don't suppose it's no more effective than just feeding into a pump.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (23 Apr 2012)

Bit of an update, checked again today by filling up the top of the reactor with about 1/4 inch of co2 while the filter was knocked off which didn't escape out the top. Soon as I knocked on the filter the big bubble was just ejected out of the top and into the aquarium. A look with a light which is quite difficult to see as the tubing and reactor are both brown plastic and I can see that small bubbles are indeed being forced down the reactor. I'm glad I got the 1000 and not the 500 as these small bubbles are making it about half way down the reactor. On closer inspection small bubbles can also be seen exiting the top. In fact I would say more is going out the top than sent down.

I'll have to check with where I bought it and see if this is normal. I wouldn't have thought it was though as it makes the reactor pretty pointless and is just churning the bubbles and forcing them out as oppose to holding them in the chamber and dissolving them as close to 100% as possible.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (23 Apr 2012)

At this point I was hoping to do a bit of a review with some pics but unfortunately my PlayBook has decided not to play ball with the video format and ill have to wait to tomorrow to speak to the sera rep. I can however say so far the 1000 is very good at diffusing co2 and very quiet.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 May 2012)

Finally got everything working and some time not away from home with work. I have to say that I'm impressed with the sera 1000. My original issues with co2 leaking seem to have been by me not pushing the stalk for the want of a better word far enough up which was allowing co2 to escape while the impeller was spinning.  
Couple of shots with it in place. 







As previously mentioned there is definitely an issue with breaking of the nipple where the co2 pipe connects, it's very fragile and is in the way most of the time when unscrewing the inlet pipe.  I have used soft co2 tubing so it's easier to get off if needs be and can slice it with a Stanley blade. I have also put a non return valve just after it so shouldn't have to remove it to often.  
Next time I strip it down I think I'll also put something on the connections to make it seal better and make removal of pipes easier , is vaseline ok? 
Flow is somewhat reduced by the intake being approximately 10mm,  I got the 1250 filter which has a loaded turnover of 850lph and small bubbles can be seen leaving the spray bar. Not 100% dissolution I guess but a few bubbles floating about the plants is no bad thing. Ultimately aesthetically more pleasing than the mist from before in my taste anyway.

This video was took before I had solved the leak issue, I'll post an updated one shortly which has much less bubbles coming out. Worth noting I have to switch co2 about three hours before lights on to get target and the co2 is still in the reactor about an hour and half after it's knocked off.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 May 2012)

I'm guessing the video had been deleted due to it's size? It's the first time I've uploaded a video so is there a max size for using in the board?


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## rebus (31 May 2012)

Its working fine for me


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 May 2012)

huh? Now that is weird, so you can see my video in the post? It was there last night and now I can't see it on either my playbook or in firefox on my desktop. I'll take another look through IE maybe it's a flash issue or something.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 May 2012)

Oh yeah thanks for pointing that out, it would appear it's only in firefox with my linux machines.


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