# CRS setup. Is there anything I have forgotten?



## Easystreet

Hey all,

Just about to start a CRS project and I am gathering all the necessary equipment.

Stuff I already have:
Tank: Cube, 30x30x30cm. 27 litre.
Light: Led fitting microhabitat 8.
Air pump: Old one I already had.
Heater: 100W set to 24 C.
Sponge filter, suitable for 200L. In my other tank maturing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251638215719?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Plants: Various small crypts, Amazonian frog bite, moss ball all taken from other tank.
TDS pen.
Freshwater master test kit.
Plenty of Malaysian trumpet snails.

The tank in position:


Stuff still to get and sources:

Substrate: Akadama bonsai soil:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360912631886?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Minerals: Saltly shrimp bee shrimp GH+:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171493654144?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Almond leaves:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280914822543?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

My local water is very hard so I will be using re-mineralized RO with the Salt shrimp to bring it up to 150tds. This should bring my GH and KH up to the desired level. I plan to set it all up and leave to mature whilst monitoring the Ph. Hopefully the Akadama should bring the Ph down to around 6.5. I will also add a few almond leaves in at the start to start a nice rich biofim developing in the tank.

After everything is stable add the shrimp and hopefully they'll be happy and breed!!

How does this sound to the experts?

Am I missing anything?

Much appreciated,

Jim


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## kirk

Hello Jim, look forward to seeing this all set up.   Only thing I was thinking was the heater out put for that volume of water should it stick on.


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## Easystreet

Hey Kirk,
Thanks, just re-checked the heater. It's actually a 50W. Does this sound more reasonable?


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## kirk

Phew...... Yes much better. I was looking at the picture, it did look a tad small for a 100.    I was just thinking you would probably only have 20 ltrs of water after your akadama etc.   have you looked into ada amazonia or equivalent? I used that under my akadama to help things, but I left it about four weeks before adding shrimp.  Worth it in the long run as it will be easier keeping them, you'll still need your salty though.


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## Lindy

Sounds great.


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## Easystreet

What's the benefit of the ada amazonia? Thought the substrate just lowered the Ph and that the akadama would do this?

Cheers,

Jim


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## bogwood

Sounds good.
Incidentally I regard 21 to 23c  as the best temp range for me.
I keep mine at 21/22, the colour is strong, and they breed well.

Good luck


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## Easystreet

Bogwood: Thanks for the tip. will set the temp a at 21/22.

Have ordered the leaves and the minerals. Ebay seller for the akadama is on holiday till tomorrow!! Getting impatient!! Will order that then.


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## kirk

If you find the akadama too big, a tip is to get two pieces of ply and Sandwich some of it and stand on it and twist to make the bits finer, you can get it to a powder for round plant too. I found this better than pestle and mortar.


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## Lindy

Easystreet said:


> What's the benefit of the ada amazonia? Thought the substrate just lowered the Ph and that the akadama would do this?


The Amazonia is black and coloured shrimp really stand out on it. I have one set up with amazonia and one with Ibaraki akadama and the amazoinia is aesthetically more pleasing with round particles of an even size. The Akadamia is far rougher looking. I am using it for black shadows so they should stand out on it but I don't think reds would look as good.
At the moment my temp is at 19 degrees and all shrimp from babies to adults doing fine. Will add a heater for the winter though as don't want it going any lower. I find 21degrees perfect.


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## JayZH

Have a look at the new JBL shrimp soil for plant tank. I had a look at it, really impressed, much better than ADA. I will use this in the future .

http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/6496/jbl-proscape-shrimpssoil-brown


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## bogwood

As shrimp keepers its good to see there is now a choice of suitable substrats out there.  And very helpful to hear what forum members use.
Some better than others, and we eventually end up with what works best for us, the shrimps and  the plants.

I have 5 shrimp tanks, and have my favourite substrate, by no means the cheapest.
However it gives me a choice of size, colour. Maintains the water parameters, and the plants grow well in it.   Has been in use now, for many years, with my CRS . BLUE BOLTS,etc.


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## Easystreet

Hey all,
OK, to summarise it's mostly aesthetics then. Although I'm sure there are some chemical differences. I think I'm going to stick with the Akadama. Not hugely concerned about aesthetics but cost is a factor. Plus I can get the akadama in the correct quantity of _ca_. 4 litres. Other brands seem to come in 3 or 9l. Three is to small I think and 9 too expensive!!

Cheers,

Jim


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## kirk

If you no bothered about looks There's always cat litter


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## kirk

Tesco light weight kitty.  This is my sons tank. 


 

   we used it in his last tank too,  it was recommended on here so we gave it a go.


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## Easystreet

Hmmm... Does it result in a a lowered Ph? In fact I read a bit more about akadama and it said that it was just a neutral substrate and wouldn't change Ph. I'm a bit confused now. Does the substrate lower Ph or can I expect a low Ph straight after the RO water is re-mineralised?

P.S. I don't think that looks that bad...


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## Easystreet

Progress!!!!!

Got the akadama. It was the Ibaraki type and is quite fine. I like it. Cost me £1.50 per litre from local bonsai dealer!! Colour change is difference between wet and dry colour:


Sieving!!! So boring! Never really runs clean! Because as you mix it more dust is created! I was a bit worried at this stage:


However I got it all in (used 4 litres in the end):


Then planted and filled (hardly merky at all, yay!):


This morning crystal clear. Helps that the filter is probably mature already:


One question: How do you fertilise a CRS tank? Is EI acceptable? Will it not mess with the TDS,GH and KH?? Go some testing to do but will post parameters later today.

Jim


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## Easystreet

Water parameters:

RO from shop: 
TDS 15, PH 7.0, GH <1, KH <1.

Re mineralised RO: 
TDS 170, PH 7.0, GH 6-7, KH 1-2.

After 24 hrs in tank:
TDS 167, PH 7.0, GH 5-6, KH <1.

Akadama seems to be sucking some of the GH and KH up. I've read it'll do this until its 'saturated' (equalised with water conditions probably a better description) then it will stop.

Jim


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## Lindy

Some people get away with dosing their shrimp tanks with ferts but most don't because as you say it messes up your parameters.


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## Easystreet

Ok, so everything is settling down. It's been two weeks and my water parameters are stable. Plants are growing a bit but slowly. Had to take out one of the crypt varieties out due to melting. Just did a 10L water change to get rid of any nasties that may have built up through the cycling process.

Parameters at the moment are:

Ph: 7
GH: 5-6
KH: 0-1
TDS: 162
Temp: 22-23. (Seems stable so I will keep it at that).
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~2.5.

The Cattapa leaves have only just arrived so put one in this morning. They're huge in relation to the tank!!! Hoping they will bring the Ph down a bit bit I've heard Ph isn't actually as important for lower grades of CRS as GH and KH?

Anyway I'm thinking of stocking next weekend with 10 low grade CRS.

Anybody got any suggestion about sourcing shrimp. Cost is a factor unfortunately. My LFS sells them at £6.99 a piece!! I was thinking of this ebay seller:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Crysta...7?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item3a9987745f

He seems to have good reviews.


Full tank shot (stupid floating leaf!! )


Top view:


Cheers,

Jim


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## Michael W

I recommend freshwater shrimps http://www.freshwatershrimp.co.uk/category.php?id_category=10


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## Easystreet

Thanks Michael.

However, freshwater shrimp out of grade A CRS at the moment. 

Also:
10 x CRS at freshwater = £35 + £9 delivery.
10 x CRS from ebay seller = £30 + free delivery.

Tempted to save the the money and get from ebay. He has good reviews.

Also: Do I need to think about genetics? should I maybe be supplementing the original 10 with some others to improve the gene pool?

Cheers,

Jim


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## bogwood

Hi jim.
I have sourced my CRS and Taiwan bees from our two sponsors , Sharnbrook and Freshwater. 
Both first class, and great for help and support.
What you suggest seems fine, at the end of the day.  Its a personal choice, usually based on what you want out the hobby, and taking into account, cost/quality/choice of retailer.

I very quickly took to shrimp keeping, ( after longer than i care to remember, on tropicals and marines) and after testing the water quickly moved onto higher grade.


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## Lindy

I got my first crs from an ebay seller and i have also sold my own shrimp on ebay. I don’t  see a problem with it.


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## Easystreet

OK, So I decided to go with the eBay seller.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sirmarkiz...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Ordered late Wednesday. Seller sent them out the next day to be delivered Friday before 1pm. They arrived at 10:30 am. Double bagged in a cardboard box. Well sealed with bits of chopped up sponge for them to cling on to:



Got them out carefully and started the drip process:



Although their colour was faded on arrival they coloured up as soon as they were out of the bag and being acclimated. Best thing is that there was one more than expected (11 rather than 10)!! Got to love a freebie!!



Acclimated them over 3 hours before adding them into the aquarium. Can you spot them:



Very happy with the shrimp. Colour seems good and although I imagine they are fairly low grade there is some nice variation amongst the group.



Only negative I can come up form the eBay seller is that the water was quite cold upon arrival. This seems to have had no negative effects but might think twice before doing this if it was very cold out. Very happy overall.

I've had one molt so far. I think this is a good sign.

The almond leaf just doesn't seem to be decomposing though!! Anybody give me indication of how long this usually takes?


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## Michael W

Hi, nice shrimps! I can't answer how long it takes for the leaves to decompose but fear not, there will be micro-organisms for the shrimps to eat so long as the leaves have been in there for a while. I see you have some moss or cladophora, that will provide the shrimps with food too.


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## Easystreet

Thanks Michael.

Leaf has been in there for a week with no change apart from sinking. Oh well, as you say there will be plenty of micro-organism about I suppose. I'm going to get some frozen spinach for them as well and feed them this once or twice a week along with some commercial shrimp pellets.


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## X3NiTH

Easystreet said:


> The almond leaf just doesn't seem to be decomposing though!! Anybody give me indication of how long this usually takes?



Forever and a day!

I have a fern leaf shaped pattern card stamp that I use to whittle the big leaf into smaller portions that scale better with the shrimp (ripping the leaf into small portions does the same job but not as neat), they then get scattered around the tank by the shrimp as they can turn the smaller pieces over. Catappa bark is another thing they like to graze upon, also fresh baby spinach leaf that has been blanched for a few secs and weighted down in the tank (I use a small fishermans fly tying clamp attached to the stem and dropped into the tank to keep it in one place as shrimp like moving stuff), it gets devoured without fail.

Getting an extra one in the bag is great, getting a berried one is at least 20x better!


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## bogwood

Looking good, exciting times ahead..
The leaves take a few weeks to really soften, however the shrimps still crawl over them, picking off things we cannot see.
I use them all the time, but increase quantity before holidays, and when breeding activity starts.
Generally, but not always i soak them in boiling water for a few mins before adding.


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## Easystreet

X3Nith: haha, no berried females unfortunately!! That would have been nice!


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## Piotr Markiewicz

thank you for good review  
temp at arrival is same or simmilar at my tanks - i bred shrimps in lower temp (remember wild shrimps live at highland springs with temp about 8) , due to this i dont have DOA because thers no difference of temperatures on a way to customer.
I would rise TDS, about leaves - soaking deepend from moisture-from one supllier will sink after 3 days, from another even 2 weeks. 
If you want to get good bacteria best is to crush leaves under soil when setting up tank - also activated carbon under soil will give you better results.
Apologies at spelling - im foreginer


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## Jason Burk

Anyone with a Caridina shrimp tank (crystals and tigers sp.) I would highly reccomend you get yourself this product: http://www.sharnbrookshrimp.co.uk/Salty_Shrimp_Bee_Shrimp_Mineral_GH_90g_p/saltyshrimp-bee-90g.htm

It basically just a mix of minerals and supplements developed especially for the keeping of Caridina shrimp - you add it to the new water you put into your aqaurium during every water change. Check it out, its only avaliable from a small number of distributors - the link will take you to Sharnbrook Shrimp's site. 

Ive been using this to re-mineralise RO water, and to say my shrimp are happy is an understatement! Getting some nice pure red line shrimplets now too  

Thanks! 
- Jason


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## Easystreet

Piotr: Hi. No problem. Thanks for the delivery. 

Jason: I'm already using it. But thanks for the advice. I'm using RO and salty bee to re-min to a TDS of 150, GH of 5-6 and KH of <1. These are the parameters that seem to be advised online. Although the tank TDS is a bit higher at the moment (around 163).

Piotr: Why do you advise a higher TDS? What is your TDS? Do you re-mineralize with products like salty bee shrimp or do you cut RO water with tap water?

I'm reluctant to change TDS straight away. If I have not got berried shrimp in 2 weeks I might slowly try and raise it. Will see how things go.

Appreciate the advice though.

P.S. my pH reagent test kits (two different brands) are giving me different readings!! One always reads 7 (aquarium lab) and the other reads the lowest possible reading (out of date API master) of 6.4. In terms of livestock I'm not too concerned as long as it's 7 or lower and stable I think I'm fine. Would be good to know exactly what it is though! So I think I need to invest in a pH meter that can be calibrated. Anybody got any recommendations. I will be constrained by cost again unfortunately so if anybody knows of a good probe for a bargain price I'd be interested?

Cheers,

Jim


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## Piotr Markiewicz

Jason its good advice-perfect mesure is one spoon  (included in BeeShrimp gh+) - 3g  for 20L of RO water and no need to make any tests - promise.

Jim i use only RO water - you never know how much copper is in tap water and its most dangerous metal for shrimps. And with RO water you have full control over parameters. Why higher TDS??matter of practise and observations. If you use additives from Mosura and BWS its imposible to keep TDS lower than 200 - because of level dissolved minerals.


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## Jason Burk

Easystreet said:


> Piotr: Hi. No problem. Thanks for the delivery.
> 
> Jason: I'm already using it. But thanks for the advice. I'm using RO and salty bee to re-min to a TDS of 150, GH of 5-6 and KH of <1. These are the parameters that seem to be advised online. Although the tank TDS is a bit higher at the moment (around 163).]


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## Jason Burk

Yeah no thats fine my friend, the best thing really with keeping Crystal/Bee shrimp is (of course get your parameters right first using things like the minerals) to just keep the parameters stable - for example its likely better just to keep dosing what you are and keep your TDS around 163 than to try to get it to 150 
Anyway, 163 is absolutely fine, mine is even a little higher because I add EI dosing 

- If anyone wants to ask by the way about how I dose estimative index (plant ferts) and keep my high grade shrimp feel free, its quite a hot topic with fishkeepers!

Thanks


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> Jason its good advice-perfect mesure is one spoon  (included in BeeShrimp gh+) - 3g  for 20L of RO water and no need to make any tests - promise.
> 
> Jim i use only RO water - you never know how much copper is in tap water and its most dangerous metal for shrimps. And with RO water you have full control over parameters. Why higher TDS??matter of practise and observations. If you use additives from Mosura and BWS its imposible to keep TDS lower than 200 - because of level dissolved minerals.



Yeah thats exactly what I personally do with the dosage


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## Easystreet

Thanks Jason.

Haha, I'll take the bait. How? I suspect my plants are nutrient depleted.


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## Jason Burk

Easystreet said:


> Thanks Jason.
> 
> Haha, I'll take the bait. How? I suspect my plants are nutrient depleted.



Okay, firstly here's the trace element mix I'm using http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/dry-salts/chelated-trace-173.html

Before buying I asked them if they knew if it was safe for shrimp, and they directed me towards some youtube videos that had just that question answered  


Keep in mind that the best thing to do is every week, carry out a 40 - 50% water change so you can 'start fresh' every week with the dosing. Its also a good idea to use RO water with shrimp because, even after you've dechlorinated you never know what kind of harmful spookyness could be in that tap water..

- You might want to wait for your tank to get a little more mature before doing this however, because a 50% water change in a new setup thats just getting going isn't the best idea in the world - unless you have water issues or something. But anyway:


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## Piotr Markiewicz

too much hassle - tommorow ill make photo of my planted tanks with moss. only thing that i use for plants is BWS Minerum - 4 drops weekly for 35-42 liters tank is enough (50 ml bottle-20 drops is 1 ml), and for sure its safe. 40-50% water change can cause more problems than restart of tank in full. When ill have time ill publish post how to set up shrimp tank and what to use to be happy with shrimps and plants.


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## Jason Burk

Here's what I do:

- I have a moderately densely planted nature aquarium - say 1 is no live plants and 10 is very densely planted - mines about a 6/7 
- Obviously you should add more or less of the fertilisers depending on how densely planted the aquarium is, you wont want to dose a full dosage for just a few plants.
- I always assume that the dosage instructions you are given by a manufacturer is for a very densely planted tank 


Okay, for the trace elements: (Micro nutrients) 
- Dosage says you should add 1tsp of the mix into 500ml of water and leave to dissolve overnight. 
- Now obviously being cautious about how the shrimp would handle the minute amount of copper, I did two things: Firstly, I used 600ml of water instead (this meant I would dose less trace elements in a dosage than you would with 500ml) and secondly, only half a teaspoon of the mix. 

Over time, since the shrimp were all fine, I've steadily increased the dosage to now what the recommended 1tsp dose is - but i, still using 600ml of water. And as you can see from my profile picture, all are still happy and well (ive been dosing for about 5 months now). I wouldnt recommend starting with the full dose however, just take it slow and see how things progress, shrimp and plant wise  

- It then says dose from this - you dose 10ml per 50litres of aquarium water, 3 times a week. 
- Now my tank is a 94 litre - but taking into account its volume after all the rocks and substrate and all placed - its really only about 70-80 litres. 
- So I'll be adding 15ml 3 times a week - lets say monday, wednesday, friday. 

I find its best to use a syringe to do this, so you can really fire the mixture into the best area of water flow in the tank, rather than pouring it onto the surface. 

(If you have some powerheads or a strong filter, something that increases flow and distribution then brilliant)


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## Piotr Markiewicz

how long you use fertilizer??usually takes up to 2 months when wrong additives and low quality of food make impact to shrimps.


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## Jason Burk

[quote="Piotr Markiewicz,
40-50% water change can cause more problems than restart of tank in full.

Many people I know do 50% weekly changes, with a mature tank and correct method of changing water (e.g dont throw a bucket in, do it slowly) its fine, restarting a tank will kill everything, anyway, I do 50% changes weekly, have been for 6 months and my shrimp are happy healthy and breeding like nobody's business


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> how long you use fertilizer??usually takes up to 2 months when wrong additives and low quality of food make impact to shrimps.



Have been for 5 months, by the way im using correct additives and good quality food and vegetables


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## Piotr Markiewicz

I just add water when its evaporated and change 10% every two weeks - but i need to know your secret to have shrimps 





Jason Burk said:


> breeding like nobody's business


 - because really selling around 100 shrimps a week i need to improve  i dont make advert for shrimp product sellers but if you use Mosura line (food + aditives) wth BWS shield and enlive thers no problem with plants or shrimps


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## Jason Burk

Okay: Macro Nutrients
- I bought these on ebay

- Monopotassium phosphate (KH2PO4)
- Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

For this I use the same method of getting it into your tank, with the syringe, strong water flow ect

So, same principle, 3 times a week - say Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday in conjunction with the trace elements. (sunday is water change day, woohoo!)

I use 600ml of RO water, like with the trace elements - but the macro nutrients go in a different 600ml container. Both macro nutrients I mix in the same 600ml container. 

I personally add to the 600ml:
- 8tsp of KNO3
- 2.5 tsp of KH2PO4

Now with this, I add to the tank 28ml a week - so thats 9/10 ml every dosage day.


Please keep in mind that this is for a 94 litre (call it about 70-80 litre due to rocks and stuff) 

So if you did look to use my method then youd have to dose weekly what is suitable for your tank. It was someone like 3.5ml a week for every 10 litres - so thats why im doing 28ml a week for 80 litres


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## Piotr Markiewicz

we go more to planted tank rather than shrimp tank  in 375 i fertilize with this salts and other but CO2 is crucial


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> I just add water when its evaporated and change 10% every two weeks - but i need to know your secret to have shrimps  - because really selling around 100 shrimps a week i need to improve  i dont make advert for shrimp product sellers but if you use Mosura line (food + aditives) wth BWS shield and enlive thers no problem with plants or shrimps



Of course if your 10% change every two weeks is working for you then keep up the good work  I would however recommend you do at least a 20% change every week - with only a 10% every two weeks you are at quite a risk of ammonia or nitrite spikes, no one wants that  I always recommend to customers a 30% weekly change, it just keeps everything nice and fresh and your shrimp will likely do better my friend


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> we go more to planted tank rather than shrimp tank  in 375 i fertilize with this salts and other but CO2 is crucial



It is yeah, I mean I use co2 injection and EI, which many people are concerned about with keeping shrimp, of course you should find what works for you - if youre concerned about anything its best just to place your main focus on you pr shrimp


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## Piotr Markiewicz

if additives doesnt reduce ammonia 20% every week is fine - just put in tank lowkeys tile under soil and it will make work


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## Piotr Markiewicz

CO2 is safe for shrimps like for fish if it doesnt be overdosed - but you didnt mention it


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> CO2 is safe for shrimps like for fish if it doesnt be overdosed - but you didnt mention it


Yes I know, people who aren't sure about it are the ones who get concerned, and rightly so, you dont want to put in anything thatll harm the shrimp.

Levels of co2 over 30ppm are shrimp harmful, as with fish


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## Piotr Markiewicz

lets add that CO2 helps to keep pH lower and prevent soil to (i cannot find the word now) be useless and doesnt keep pH at demanded level - its important for reset shrimp tanks less often than a year - hope that we will help Jason to other shrimp keepers with our discussion


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> lets add that CO2 helps to keep pH lower and prevent soil to (i cannot find the word now) be useless and doesnt keep pH at demanded level - its important for reset shrimp tanks less often than a year - hope that we will help Jason to other shrimp keepers with our discussion



Haha yeah exactly, I hope we're not annoying Jim with all our replies! Yeah my co2, substrate and RO water help me keep to a nice 6.8pH


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## X3NiTH

If your water is remineralised RO (pH6.5ish) and your KH is near 0 and you're not buffering the pH upwards via additives or substrate then having a pH of 6.8 after injecting co2 means it's not making it into the tank. For a planted co2 injected tank if it were 5.8 I would say its a start!


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## Jason Burk

X3NiTH said:


> If your water is remineralised RO (pH6.5ish) and your KH is near 0 and you're not buffering the pH upwards via additives or substrate then having a pH of 6.8 after injecting co2 means it's not making it into the tank. For a planted co2 injected tank if it were 5.8 I would say its a start!



Could you explain further please? My drop checker at the bottom of the tank says co2 of usually about 28ppm - also I have a ceramic diffuser where the co2 bubbles are constantly pushed downwards to the plants by two powerheads. My plant growth was non existent before I added the co2

Thanks


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## Piotr Markiewicz

X3NiTH said:


> If your water is remineralised RO (pH6.5ish)


RO water is always pH7 (indifferent- thats what google says as translation) - if not sth is wrong


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## X3NiTH

Are you sure your drop checker isn't being fooled by having free co2 swept into the bell by the power heads. If you look at the pH KH Co2 charts then 28ppm of co2 in 0KH is somewhere way way below pH6. If you add biologic processes you see in a planted tank it could be even lower.

My planted tank (with RCS in it) is RO/DI remineralised to TDS180 with BShrimpGH+, there is 0KH (not adding any). My co2 injection method gives 100% co2 dissolution (crystal water, no bubbles) so my drop checker cannot be fooled by free floating co2 bubbles, before injection in the morning my pH is stable for a couple of hours of constant aeration at pH6.7/8, once injection starts to get a green drop checker I need to drop the pH down to 5.45, for yellow down to 5.30 (shrimps start hanging out near the surface before the fish start heading there).

RO/DI can be lower than 7, mine reads 6.8 after raising the TDS from 0 to 180


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## Lindy

Jason Burk said:


> My drop checker at the bottom of the tank says co2 of usually about 28ppm


Drop checkers are just measuring ph are they not so if you have low ph your drop checker would be green all the time. To accurately measure your co2 impact you need to measure ph to see what drop you get when co2 comes on. The ph in my big tank is around 6 so it takes the addition of very little co2 for my drop checker to be a lovely lime green Yet co2 levels are still quite low and I have some algae.


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## Lindy

Jason Burk said:


> I would however recommend you do at least a 20% change every week


Most shrimp breeders I know change 10% every week. I 'd be surprised to see an ammonia spike in a mature shrimp tank unless you added 30 adult shrimp all in one go to an unfiltered tank.


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## Jason Burk

ldcgroomer said:


> Drop checkers are just measuring ph are they not so if you have low ph your drop checker would be green all the time. To accurately measure your co2 impact you need to measure ph to see what drop you get when co2 comes on. The ph in my big tank is around 6 so it takes the addition of very little co2 for my drop checker to be a lovely lime green Yet co2 levels are still quite low and I have some algae.



Its green/yellowish most of the time 
I dont know, ill have to figure out whats going on


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## Easystreet

Hey Jason,

No I don't mind the extra chat. Is interesting to find out what everyone does. Seems there is a lot of variability in methods. But basics are the same - use remineralised RO with stable parameters and you should be OK. I'm going to focus on the shrimp at the moment. If I get some good breeding then I may look into whether I can fertilise the tank in the future, but waiting for the first berried shrimp at the moment. Will do a 20% water change at the weekend. I suspect this might trigger something.

Cheers,

Jim


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## Jason Burk

Yeah course, id reccomend just focusing on the shrimp anyway to be honest  

What temp do you have the water at?


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## Piotr Markiewicz

temp is not so important - i have few testing tanks that shrimps live and bred in natural temperature - 10 degrees, my shrimps(to keep them longer) are bred below 20 - with 22-23 wich is recomended they live up to 2 years and thats how business for sellers works. Im honest - you can visit and check


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> temp is not so important - i have few testing tanks that shrimps live and bred in natural temperature - 10 degrees, my shrimps(to keep them longer) are bred below 20 - with 22-23 wich is recomended they live up to 2 years and thats how business for sellers works. Im honest - you can visit and check



I know that, I was just curious lol

- anyway, 10 degrees? The waters of Taiwan are usually around 20-25 if im not mistaken
- I have mine at 20 by the way


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## Piotr Markiewicz

I dont know what for we travel To Taiwan...
Crystal Red is selected in Japan Caridina sp. in 1997 from wild Caridina Cantonensis from China - at Guanhzhou district (origin) temperatures over winter goes to 9-10


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## kirk

I use co2 and ferts, from my experience so far is they get used to it (CRS)but are not 100percent happy, they breed much better without Co2. Ferts I use very sparingly as I was warned to go easy on the ferts to start off. I have built up the co2 over mths, I get the odd burried shrimp but no shrimplets so I'd say the co2 is not there friend   I think low tech is the way if you want very happy crs cbs.


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## Easystreet

So I've had 2 more moults which is good. But I suspect all the moults so far have been males. I'm not great at sexing them but I think I have more males than females. Possible only 2-3 large females. If I'm right they breed after moulting? So just have to wait for one of the females to moult. And cross my fingers.


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## Piotr Markiewicz

Its normal that you have more males than females - thats why most sellesrs offer young ones and sugest buy at least 10- when ive started my tanks i had lot of 30 with 4 females only - so at you case is not so bad


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## Jason Burk

Piotr Markiewicz said:


> I dont know what for we travel To Taiwan...
> Crystal Red is selected in Japan Caridina sp. in 1997 from wild Caridina Cantonensis from China - at Guanhzhou district (origin) temperatures over winter goes to 9-10



Oh right, thanks! ill have to look into that


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## Jason Burk

kirk said:


> I use co2 and ferts, from my experience so far is they get used to it (CRS)but are not 100percent happy, they breed much better without Co2. Ferts I use very sparingly as I was warned to go easy on the ferts to start off. I have built up the co2 over mths, I get the odd burried shrimp but no shrimplets so I'd say the co2 is not there friend   I think low tech is the way if you want very happy crs cbs.



Hi Kirk, just to let you know that the co2 and ferts shouldn't really have make a difference for the rate of breeding or breeding success as long as you don't overdose on anything.. It might be that your pregnant shrimp dropped their eggs for other reasons..
Or as you say it might well be down to your shrimp not liking the co2 and ferts

personally I dont have problems with breeding and co2/ferts - I use EI and co2 injection, and after adding females not long ago Ive had two successful breedings (and the babies are really growing fast!) and currently have my other 2 females with eggs

All the best 


- But as you mentioned.. They likely will be happier without all the ferts/co2 fuss


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## Easystreet

Everything is going ok. Had a couple more moults but no berried shrimp yet!! Am I being impatient? Anyway it's time to play a game of do I actually have any females.

Playing with the girlfriends new camera. So any experts identify any females in this lot?
1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

6:

7:

8:

9:

10:

11:

12:

13:

14: ()


And a couple of tank shots:





Its nice having a decent camera for once!

Cheers,

Jim


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## Jason Burk

Easystreet said:


> Everything is going ok. Had a couple more moults but no berried shrimp yet!! Am I being impatient? Anyway it's time to play a game of do I actually have any females.
> 
> Playing with the girlfriends new camera. So any experts identify any females in this lot?
> 1:
> 
> 2:
> 
> 3:
> 
> 4:
> 
> 5:
> 
> 6:
> 
> 7:
> 
> 8:
> 
> 9:
> 
> 10:
> 
> 11:
> 
> 12:
> 
> 13:
> 
> 14: ()
> 
> 
> And a couple of tank shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its nice having a decent camera for once!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jim



Hey dude, lovely little set up and shrimp you've got there!

Number 2 is nice clear shot of a nice female 
and with the others its a little difficult but looking at the second pair of antennae I would say that 5 and 6 look like females to me.

7,8,10 and the closest one in number 13 are all male


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## X3NiTH

If a female is close to moulting you will know about it as the males will be actively hunting her pheromone trail. The cleverest male will be the one that finds her and shadows her until she breaks free from her skin, then he'll be on her like a rocket! Any shrimp attempting to mate before moulting has commenced will be very aggressively rebuffed by the female. If you catch this event in the process it can be quite concerning to see a frenzy of males trying to swarm one female, it's a dangerous time for a female shrimp.


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## Easystreet

Jason: Thanks.

I was swinging towards 2 being female and all others male. But would be good if there were a couple more females.

My favourite is 11.

So the second pair of antennae are longer on females?

X3NiTH: Haven't observed this yet. All very placid at the moment! Need to get the Barry White on to spur things into action.


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## Jason Burk

Easystreet said:


> Jason: Thanks.
> 
> I was swinging towards 2 being female and all others male. But would be good if there were a couple more females.
> 
> My favourite is 11.
> 
> So the second pair of antennae are longer on females?
> 
> X3NiTH: Haven't observed this yet. All very placid at the moment! Need to get the Barry White on to spur things into action.



Yeah 11 is a nice one, Hinomaru no-entry SS

Nope with the females the second pair are shorter, probably easiest to see this with number 7 male
With CRS its usually difficult or impossible to spot a saddle on them as you can with cherries for example, so I also looked at other things such as the tail and the body shape


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## X3NiTH

The adventure is just beginning. This is what CRS do when looking for a female.



This lot were useless, never managed to get them breeding, they had already killed 4 females that were part of the original group of 14, they are an aggressive bunch, the only one out of there that successfully bred left that tank and migrated to my Anubia walled tank on his own (he's a clever one) where I introduced two carefully selected CBS, one of which turned out to be female, only in the last two months have I been getting any Shrimplets. It's taken about 9 months to get this far with the crystals and in that time I've tipped about 400 RCS into the main tank from the above tank.

Best of luck!


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## Jason Burk

X3NiTH said:


> The adventure is just beginning. This is what CRS do when looking for a female.
> 
> 
> 
> This lot were useless, never managed to get them breeding, they had already killed 4 females that were part of the original group of 14, they are an aggressive bunch, the only one out of there that successfully bred left that tank and migrated to my Anubia walled tank on his own (he's a clever one) where I introduced two carefully selected CBS, one of which turned out to be female, only in the last two months have I been getting any Shrimplets. It's taken about 9 months to get this far with the crystals and in that time I've tipped about 400 RCS into the main tank from the above tank.
> 
> Best of luck!





Hey my friend, you seem to get some pretty awful luck  ive never seen my CRS behave aggressively towards a female or kill her, and certainly never before she's released pheromones.. Mine just earlier today were shooting around the tank looking for the female, she was just sitting right out in the open haha

Im not really sure what to suggest about aggressive males, the only thing I can think of is for some reason they might possibly feel vulnerable and so have this desire to mate as fast as possible and pass on their genes.. Its a weird one, good luck bud


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## Jason Burk

How is your luck with those Sunset shrimp? Youve got alot with saddles there!


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## X3NiTH

Jason Burk said:


> How is your luck with those Sunset shrimp? Youve got alot with saddles there!



My RCS appear to breed faster than vermin!


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## Trevor Pleco

might not be too important, but crypt roots I gather are not great for CRS if they are exposed to them, so make sure they are buried..


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## Lindy

Trevor Pleco said:


> but crypt roots I gather are not great for CRS if they are exposed to them, so make sure they are buried..


I think this might be a bit of a myth.


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## Alastair

ldcgroomer said:


> I think this might be a bit of a myth.


Yup. As is the Anubias leaf tear story too.


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## Easystreet

Yer I read freshly cut anubias roots were bad. I figured that if they'd been in the tank for a couple of weeks during cycling then anything toxic would have leached away, helped by some big water changes. But if it's a myth then no problem anyway!!


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## X3NiTH

I agree with the others, it's a total myth about the Anubias.

My breeding CRS male moved into my Anubia walled tank all by himself not long after hacking the roots off many Anubias and planting them in the wall, no water changes had been performed up to this point so if the roots were leaking any toxins they would have all still been there when Geronimo arrived. The Anubias are Nana Bonsai variety, some roots have broken off since planting and remain in the tank to break down, there are also torn leaves, one or two made recently when I was chasing down berried cherries to evict, there is also a Coffeefolia in there that was not doing well when bought as it had an open wound, it struggles and has also tried to grow an emerged leaf which died, so if this other type of Anubia leaks toxins they should be in the tank right now.

The shrimp in this tank thrive!


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## Easystreet

Really happy to stumble across this the other day!!!!!!!!! Been away so couldn't post until now. I first saw her like this on jan 16th so fingers crossed for some babies mid feb!!!!

In my head it seemed like this has taken ages but thinking about I've only had them for 2.5 months so not too long a settling in period. Hopefully more will be berried soon!! Now they are all bigger I think I have more females than I initially thought!!!! 

I have to move this tank to a new house next weekend so bit nervous of her dropping the eggs during the move! I plan to retain all of the water so no chemistry changes. I'll just lower the water level and minimise sloshing as much as possible during transportation!! :-/ anyone got any other tips?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## X3NiTH

Nice one!

If it were me I would net the shrimp and put in a safe container (container you're going to transport the water in would do, assuming it's a sealable container) and completely drain the tank for the move, if the tank gets jumbled accidentally (only really needs one slosh) it won't be hard to scape it back to the way it was. It would be unlucky if she drops the eggs but at least you know you have a viable female, the only way I can think why she would drop the eggs would be if during the move the detritus in the substrate got stirred up into a cloud and her eggs were coated with it and she couldn't clean them completely and she decided they are unviable and jettison them to start again (she will already be saddled with viable eggs whilst carrying eggs in the undercarriage), only likely if transported in tank and you get a mini tidal wave from a small amount of jostling that ends up causing a cloud.


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## Easystreet

Cheers X3NiTH, haven't moved them yet. Will need to in the next few days. Good advice. Will probably so that.

On another happy note: Although not a massive achievement, one of the cherry shrimp in this tank is now berried as well!! Lots of shrimplets soon hopefully!!


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## Piotr Markiewicz

I sell strong shrimps and as you see they start to breed as it should - after 4 months  usually i sell shrimps 6-8 weeks old and if tank i properly set up you can easy get young ones.


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## Easystreet

Hi all,

So the move went ok. The substrate is a bit less sloping after transportation which is slightly annoying as the tank has lost the some of it's appearance of depth but otherwise no problems. Shrimp are all fine. The berried CRS and RCS didn't lose their eggs. However I've just done the maths and the CRS has now been berried for at least 39 days!! First spotted on the 16th of January!

She looks ready to pop!! Eggs all have 2 discernible eyes and eggs are noticeable larger. Is it usual for them to be berried this long? I heard _ca._ 30 days. Maybe I spotted this on the very first day and and other people generally don't notice for a few days or do you think environmental factors could play a role. Temp:19-21 degrees Centigrade.

Hopefully shrimplets within the next day or two.


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## Lindy

I heard that the longer the female carried the eggs the bigger/stronger the shrimplets will be. Don't know if it is true but my shadow panda carried her last lot of eggs well over 30 days.


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## Easystreet

Interesting. Makes sense if the energy content within eggs is there for the them to develop over a longer period into larger, stronger shrimplets I suppose. Invertebrate biology is a mystery to me still!


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## Easystreet

Spotted the first two shrimplets!!!! The mother is still berried so she must be in the process of giving birth!! Again I am surprised because I assumed it was a quick birthing process. But you learn new things everyday! I'm working from home today and the tank is on my desk!! Very little work will be getting done!!!!

The shrimplets are about 4mm long and out and about already. Some faint colours are visible. The first two have a a red carapace and some white striping along the abdominal sections. Looks like they will be standard striped CRS.


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## Lindy

Are you sure you only had one berried as new shrimplets are usually more like 2mm long. So small it hurts your eyes!


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## Vic

It is beautiful. However for me, the tank is more suited to neocaridinas rather than caridines. Keeping stable the parameters in this small tank is difficult and requires very much discipline. Said that if you do PWC every week the same amount 10-15 % you will be fine. The akadama will help you a lot to keep the parameters stable and the ph low.

Is a beautiful cube tank. Thanks for sharing it.


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