# CO2 pressure ? water ?  Whats going on.



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

I have a FE CO2 rig with TMC V2pro regulator, fluval bubble counter, and Up inline diffuser that connects into the *INTAKE* of my G6 filter.  (I put it on the intake following advice from the person I bought it from who also runs a Gseries filter and who finds this is the best way to ensure no CO2 mist/bubbles in the tank, as the CO2 is all dissolved by the time it reaches it).

It comes on an hour before lights on, but just never seems to get going properly.  The diffuser fills with water.  I have no idea if this is correct or not.  But it seems that the gas has to push a lot of the water out of the way before it starts getting diffused.  In fact I put a check valve on close to where the CO2 line enters the diffuser as the CO2 line use to fill back with water too !  I took this valve off today in the hope of seeing the gas pass through more quickly.

I am now an hour and a quarter after starting the CO2, the water is still half filling the diffuser chamber and I cannot get more than 1 to 2 bps max.  I dont necessarily want more than this but hey, should it not allow me to if I want it ?

Also, the working pressure is 1bar, no more.  IT does sometimes increase to 2bar but not for ages.

There must be something amiss.

Is the UP inline diffuser the wrong way round or something ? Does/Should it matter ?  Maybe the check valve between the solenoid and bubble counter could be clogged ?  Im a novice with this stuff so need some advice please guys.

Here you see the water in the diffusor





And here is the working pressure and chamber pressure.... 1bar working 50bar chamber




Any suggestions  ? Cheers.


----------



## niru (5 Mar 2012)

Hi

this is usual issue with atomizer... try increasing the pressure to near 2ish bar... or make a DIY reactor... thats pretty good and much better dissolution.

cheers
niru


----------



## GHNelson (5 Mar 2012)

Hi
I would switch the atomiser the other way round...and also put it on your outlet pipe.
If your going to switch the Co2 2 hours on you will only see a few hours of misting before it switches off.
Sometimes I cant even see the micro bubbles as I have to really look closely to make sure the Co2 is running.
Put your check valve back on just behind the atomisers Co2 in tube.
hoggie


----------



## GHNelson (5 Mar 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> Hi
> I would switch the atomiser the other way round...and also put it on your outlet pipe.
> If your going to switch the Co2 2 hours on you will only see a few hours of misting before it switches off.
> Sometimes I cant even see the micro bubbles as I have to really look closely to make sure the Co2 is running.
> ...


There is one other thing you can try before you increase the working pressure.
Remove the bubble counter and have the Co2 line from the needle valve only.
If the chamber of water empties reasonable quickly...then you may have a leaking bubble counter.
hoggie


----------



## ian_m (5 Mar 2012)

Couple of things.

1. I understand you should put the UP atomiser on the output of your filter, as per the instructions, as it is rumoured the CO2 can damage (harden) rubber seals of your filter, much the same way CO2 can harden/attack non CO2 proof airline (if used).

2. These atomisers do require more pressure than simple glass diffusers, mine is set at 2bar and works fine. As a side effect of this my needle valve is much more easily controllable from 1 bubble per 10 seconds to full blown hurricane compared to glass diffuser where it was extremely difficult and sensitive to get a reliable bubble rate.

3. When the CO2 switches on it does take a while 1/2-2hrs before any sign of CO2 on drop checker is seen.

4. Yes when running at high bubble rate you can see a fine mist of CO2 bubbles if you look carefully.


----------



## m_attt (5 Mar 2012)

its the reg mate, they arn't man enough for the atomiser. Also they are not that great i had mine replaced three times before they gave me a re-fund then got an up aqua one and it works fine (nothing in the setup was changed, just the reg)


----------



## ian_m (5 Mar 2012)

hogan53 said:
			
		

> There is one other thing you can try before you increase the working pressure.
> Remove the bubble counter and have the Co2 line from the needle valve only.
> If the chamber of water empties reasonable quickly...then you may have a leaking bubble counter.
> hoggie


When I first setup my CO2 system I had issues setting a sensible bubble rate. So I dunked my bubble counter completely in a jug of water and slowly opened the needle valve. Bubbles started appearing in the bubble counter but beyond a certain opening of the needle valve the bubble counter started leaking  between the clear "jar" and its lid . The supplier I got it from replaced it no problem.


----------



## Quetzalcoatl (5 Mar 2012)

Up atomizers require a working pressure of 2bar. You need to increase the working pressure on your regulator mate. It will work fine after this.


----------



## GHNelson (5 Mar 2012)

Quetzalcoatl said:
			
		

> Up atomizers require a working pressure of 2bar. You need to increase the working pressure on your regulator mate. It will work fine after this.



Don't think this regulator has a adjustable working pressure....anyone verify this.
Looking at you Matt.
hoggie


----------



## Quetzalcoatl (5 Mar 2012)

> Don't think this regulator has a adjustable working pressure....anyone verify this.


Oh dear.   Houston, we have a problem.


----------



## m_attt (5 Mar 2012)

its deffinatly not adjustable, you can fiddle with the bit on the front and get it working but it only seams to last untill it turns off, then when on again it wont build up the pressure, had to constantly play about with it to get it to work the atomiser, then shortly after they just give up.


----------



## GHNelson (5 Mar 2012)

m_attt said:
			
		

> its deffinatly not adjustable, you can fiddle with the bit on the front and get it working but it only seams to last untill it turns off, then when on again it wont build up the pressure, had to constantly play about with it to get it to work the atomiser, then shortly after they just give up.


Cheers Matt
So its a glass jobbie diffuser for the fella now.  
hoggie


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

m_attt said:
			
		

> its the reg mate, they arn't man enough for the atomiser. Also they are not that great i had mine replaced three times before they gave me a re-fund then got an up aqua one and it works fine (nothing in the setup was changed, just the reg)



You mean the tmc reg? Is this a common problem with them?


----------



## m_attt (5 Mar 2012)

yes the tmc v2 pro or whatever the name is  sorry its not what you wanted to hear, but I found it to be a terrible reg, had it replaced three times over 4 maybe 5 months. It works fine with a glass diffuser but the atomiser seamed to kill them pretty quick.


----------



## ian_m (5 Mar 2012)

With some regulators there is pressure adjustment screw, to adjust using an allen key, under the large nut on the front. But I suspect if your regulator instructions don't mention it then it is either glass diffuser or new regulator.


----------



## Quetzalcoatl (5 Mar 2012)

> With some regulators there is pressure adjustment screw, to adjust using an allen key, under the large nut on the front.


This was the case on my JBL. It was covered with a plastic cap. No mention of it in the manual either. There may still be hope Chris? Failing that you could get a AM1000 reactor.


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

niru said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> this is usual issue with atomizer... try increasing the pressure to near 2ish bar... or make a DIY reactor... thats pretty good and much better dissolution.
> 
> ...



What will a DIY or AM1000 reactor do to my flow rate ?  I cannot change the pressure.  Its fixed on the TMC v2pro and is supposed to reach 2bar as far as I am aware.  For some reason mine is not getting anywhere near it.  I will see if I can find any leaks.


----------



## m_attt (5 Mar 2012)

where did you read 2bar? from the 3 i had and my mates one i'd say 1.5bar was there general working/max pressure.


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

> Couple of things.
> 
> 1. I understand you should put the UP atomiser on the output of your filter, as per the instructions, as it is rumoured the CO2 can damage (harden) rubber seals of your filter, much the same way CO2 can harden/attack non CO2 proof airline (if used).
> Yeah I have heard this, but don't get it.  If there is CO2 dissolved in the water, its there. Period.  It is circulating in your system and through your filter.  So what difference does it make where the point of injection is ? Its there anyway.  But I appreciate the comment.  Perhaps you know the answer to this and the theory I have just put forward
> ...


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

Quetzalcoatl said:
			
		

> Up atomizers require a working pressure of 2bar. You need to increase the working pressure on your regulator mate. It will work fine after this.



I cant.  The working pressure of the reg is fixed.


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

Quetzalcoatl said:
			
		

> > With some regulators there is pressure adjustment screw, to adjust using an allen key, under the large nut on the front.
> 
> 
> This was the case on my JBL. It was covered with a plastic cap. No mention of it in the manual either. There may still be hope Chris? Failing that you could get a AM1000 reactor.



Great !   Will this affect flow ?


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

I thought the crisis was averted, I disconnected the bubble counter and tubes in and out of it and then retightened everything and it seemed to make a difference.  FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES. And now I am back to barely no control over the flow rate.  Grrr.  I am beginning to get well and truly over this.


----------



## niru (5 Mar 2012)

Hi

with most regs, there is always a way to tamper the pressure using some screwdrivers.... though its (rightly) not advisable. But if you know what you are doing, this should be fine. (I aint taking any responsibilities here..)

Else, simply make a reactor for CO2 yourself (or pay for it). Sure the wtaer flow decreases a bit, but guess you can live with that  They dont need high CO2 pressure, and depending on what you fill the reactor with, the co2 dissolution is 100%. Put them on the ouput side of the filter... attach valves for safety on both sides if you wish.
I have one such thing and it works perfectly... Cleaning is also much easier than atomizer.

-niru


----------



## Antipofish (5 Mar 2012)

niru said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> with most regs, there is always a way to tamper the pressure using some screwdrivers.... though its (rightly) not advisable. But if you know what you are doing, this should be fine. (I aint taking any responsibilities here..)
> 
> ...



Are atomisers meant to be cleaned ? Maybe thats my problem


----------



## Quetzalcoatl (5 Mar 2012)

> Are atomisers meant to be cleaned ? Maybe thats my problem


They do get clogged after a while. A good soak in bleach will help remove some of the build up in there. I doubt very much though that this will solve the issue. In the past, even when my was due a clean the working pressure was still adequate enough to push the gas through the ceramic. Sorry mate, I know you don`t want to hear this. I think it`s either a new reg. Or a different method of injection.


----------



## Antipofish (6 Mar 2012)

Thanks for your input guys.  Im going to be borrowing a spare reg off someone and he is going to go back to TMC to try and get this sorted.


----------



## foxfish (6 Mar 2012)

Considering the device was placed where it was, you might as well just take it off & stick the C02 pipe up the filter inlet?
I found that you need at least 2bar when the UPs are new but this increases with age & use, even after the first bleach clean you might need 2.5 just to get it working well.

The higher the pressure the better it will work (within reason) & I usually give up on the UP when I have to use 3 bar plus to get a decent mist, then I buy a new one!

You can try anything you like but at the end of the day 2 bar is the minimum recommended pressure to get a really fine, almost invisible, mist effect.

So for the time being choose another method & the easy low pressure method is to feed the gas into the filter, just tape the gas line down the filter inlet pipe so it ends flush & the bubbles will be sucked in.
Personally I do not like this method simply because I cant see what is going on & you will get a build up of gas that eventually escape in one huge C02 bubble = a burp!


----------

