# Success with tap water



## ben_t (29 Nov 2020)

Hi,

I'm wondering about keeping fish but not sure if my local tap water would be up to scratch. I noticed some forum members are in the same area as me so wondered about peoples first hand experiences? I live near Eastleigh and my water comes from an underground source at Twyford. The water flows under chalk hills and is known to be hard.

I've just downloaded the report from Southern Water and they say the hardness is 16 dGH which is exactly what I used to measure when I kept fish years ago, I have an old spreadsheet with some of these values noted down. Slightly concerning is that the Southern Water report lists nitrates as 35 mg/l which is apparently roughly equivalent to ppm. I've read that nitrates should be kept as low as possible with 5-10 ppm being a good benchmark. Have I read these nitrate levels correct? I'm thinking with the nitrates and hardness that tap water might not be sufficient. I don't really want the expense and hassle of RO water which is also quite wasteful.

There is a lot of conflicting information online, some say that in hard water you can only keep livebearers or African cichlids while others say water parameters don't matter as long as you keep on top of maintenance. It would be great to hear some first hand experience from those with similar water parameters, which fish and plants would work, whether a low tech tank with no co2 would work, whether these background nitrates from the tap are correct?

Thanks


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## hypnogogia (29 Nov 2020)

If you need to soften your water, you can always cut it with rain water.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (29 Nov 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> you can always cut it with rain water.


I've moved solely to rain water in my tank. It's in abundance at the moment and where I live they are currently changing the source we get our water from so lots of blending from underground sources and a lot of work getting done on the pipeline which I would imagine means them flushing it with whatever quite often. The only tapwater I add is when I boil a kettle full up to bring my rain water up to temperature on water change day.



ben_t said:


> Southern Water report lists nitrates as 35 mg/l



Quite decent of your water company to throw in some free fertiliser, I have to buy some and add it. If you live in an area without any factories spewing stuff out nearby try rain water cut say 50/50 with your tap. You can buy a kit to cut into your down pipe to divert water into a barrel.  Having said that people still have a lot of success with hard water and plants. Get a Trace fertiliser that works well in hard water.


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## dw1305 (29 Nov 2020)

Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS. A lot of our members have hard water and <"keep successful tanks">. Have a look for tanks from @Tim Harrison, @Zeus. and @Geoffrey Rea.


ben_t said:


> and they say the hardness is 16 dGH which is exactly what I used to measure when I kept fish years ago


Yes, that is <"about the figure you get"> when your water is fully saturated with calcium (Ca++) and bicarbonate (HCO3-) ions. The carbonate hardness (dKH) will also be about 16 degrees, because nearly all the dGH and dKH <"comes from the chalk (CaCO3)"> aquifer.


ben_t said:


> Slightly concerning is that the Southern Water report lists nitrates as 35 mg/l which is apparently roughly equivalent to ppm.


Yes, same again, pretty <"common nitrate values"> for a lot of us in the South and East of the UK and yes again "ppm" and "mg/L" are equivalent measurements and interchangeable.


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Quite decent of your water company to throw in some free fertiliser,


That is one of the great things about planted tanks, <"nitrate levels go down"> rather than up. Have a look at the <"Leaf colour chart">.


hypnogogia said:


> If you need to soften your water, you can always cut it with rain water.





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I've moved solely to rain water in my tank.


I'm a <"rain-water user">, as well.

cheers Darrel


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## sparkyweasel (29 Nov 2020)

ben_t said:


> I've read that nitrates should be kept as low as possible with 5-10 ppm being a good benchmark. Have I read these nitrate levels correct?


You've read that right, - it's the people that insist on writing it that are wrong. 
Often the source is some-one trying to sell you some magic potion they claim removes nitrate. Nitrate is an essential plant food, we don't want to remove it.


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## jacquieb (30 Nov 2020)

Liquid chalk here in East Sussex: easy keepers Golden barb, Harlequins, Lemon tetras, neon dwarf Rainbowfish, cory (I have pygmy, hasbero and a synodontis that's at least a decade old), most danios, mountain minnows. Platys and swordtails do too well and the population explosion can become a problem quite quickly. Cherry shrimp also breed and breed. I have kept crystal shrimp too and they do sometimes breed but not as prolific. Less successful in my experience are neons, gouramis and tetras other than lemons. 

Plant wise (low tech) - cryptocoryne, anubius and bucephalandra on wood, hygrophila species, val (if you aren't using liquid carbon) and helanthium tenellum for the foreground. I've found bigger echinodorus tend to sulk and java fern never looks quite as good as I'd like. 

The only way to truly know what will work in your tank is to try it and see, and that's half the fun. Enjoy!


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## Conort2 (30 Nov 2020)

Cutting with rainwater is a good idea if you feel your water is too hard. However there are plenty of species that will thrive in that type of water. Rainbow fish are an excellent choice, most danio and barb species will also thrive, hillstream loaches, gobies.

Are there Any particular fish you really like the look of? if so let’s us know and we can advise on whether these would be suitable.

cheers

Conor


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## dw1305 (30 Nov 2020)

Hi all, 


sparkyweasel said:


> Often the source is some-one trying to sell you some magic potion they claim removes nitrate.





ben_t said:


> Southern Water report lists nitrates as 35 mg/l which is apparently roughly equivalent to ppm. I've read that nitrates should be kept as low as possible with 5-10 ppm being a good benchmark. Have I read these nitrate levels correct?


It is back to whether nitrate (NO3-) is the <"smoking gun of nitrification">, and indicates that <"you've had high levels of ammonia (NH3) and nitrite (NO2-)">, or whether what we measure has always been the nitrate ion (the situation in tap water).  

We don't know at what level nitrate becomes <"toxic to our fish">, but there is work on <"Zebra Danio (_Danio rerio_)">, because of its use as a model organism in universities.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (30 Nov 2020)

ben_t said:


> I've read that nitrates should be kept as low as possible with 5-10 ppm being a good benchmark.


With planted aquariums running out of nitrates as well as all the other elements is avoided at all costs with it being detrimental to plants. If you look in certain parts of the forum you can see how many people with deficiency issues are searching for what's missing so in your case with your tapwater it just means nitrate is going to be the least likely. 
Below is a graph of accumulation courtesy of Rotala to show how effective plants are at stripping out nitrate. The settings are your suspected 35mgl tapwater in a low energy well planted tank changing 40% of the water every two weeks. It makes an assumption that the plants are consuming 1ppm per day which isn't an unrealistic figure. The plants could consume upto 3ppm per day if you throw more light or some co2 at it. As you can see over the course of the year there are times when you are bottoming out. Cut 50/50 and you certainly are unless you start changing weekly to counter it. 

If you do throw co2 and light in there increasing plant uptake and cut 50/50 chances are you probably will need to add some additional nitrate.


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## mort (1 Dec 2020)

From a fish perspective with hard water, my local water is like liquid rock as well, it's not such a big issue nowadays. It is great for livebearers and the normal hard water lovers but most species have been bred in captivity for so long now that they are really adaptable. If you go to your lfs just ask what they keep their fish in. At my lfs the only fish they don't keep in our hard local tap water is discus and wild caught south american species, everything else including captive bred apistogramma, pencilfish etc is just tap water. 
It is true to say that many fish are happier in softer more acidic water and you may stifle some breeding but it's not necessarily a problem. If you can mix your tap with rainwater or ro it's even easier.


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## Aqua sobriquet (1 Dec 2020)

One of the worst aspects of hard water is what it does to the tank and equipment. I now use mostly rain water and that’s fine but years ago I was forever trying to scrape limescale off everything.


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## ben_t (3 Dec 2020)

Apologies for not replying sooner, it’s been a busy week but I have been reading the replies and some of the further reading.
Rain water could be an option although a slightly scary one. We have a water butt for the garden but I’m not sure how clean the water is. There’s always slugs in there and the water doesn’t look totally clear and pure. Last summer it ran dry for quite a few weeks which could also be a problem.
I know plants need Nitrogen but I’ve always heard that high nitrates are bad for the fish. Water changes are usually recommended to dilute these waste products so I was a bit concerned that my tap water apparently has a fair amount of nitrates. Maybe in a planted tank this will be less of an issue though as the plants will help balance things out.
Regarding the tank I was thinking of something in the 10-20 gallon range, low tech with easy plants. There are quite a few fish I like the look of but haven’t really settled on anything. I wouldn’t want to stock too heavily and would like to keep things in a theme like Asian, amazononian, or something like that. Not a strict biotope. I quite like bettas, cherry shrimp, harlequins, sparkling gourami, corys, dwarf cichlids. I need to choose a theme and then pick something that will be happy in hard water and my size of tank.


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## Karmicnull (4 Dec 2020)

Like many people here I'm running in super hard south UK water (East Anglia for me).  Low tech.  I did a trawl of the internet and came up with the (not remotely exhaustive) set of fish below who all are ok in >=268ppm water (note that the internet inevitably disagrees with itself on all these figures. so these must be taken as estimates).  Although as folks have said above, this may be conservative given how much stock is now bred in captivity and may have some degree of genetic adaptation.  Also worth noting that running soft fish in hard water is less of an issue than the reverse.


NameLatin Namesize (cm)Low TempHigh TempPHHardnessRasbora VulcanusRasbora Vulcanus4​23​26​6.4-7.526-267Emerald Dwarf RasboraCelestichthys erythromicron2​20.0​24​7.0-8.0215-357Red Dwarf RasboraMicrorasbora rubescens3​20.0​24​6.0-854-268Firehead TetraHemigrammus Bleheri5​23​26​5.5-736-268X-Ray TetraPristella maxillaris4.5​22​28​6-7.535-358Cherry BarbsPuntius titteya4​20.0​27​6-8.036-357Platy7.5​20.0​25​7-8.2179-537Bronze CoryCorydoras aeneus7.5​21.0​27​6-8.036-268Albino Cory7.0​22.0​26​6-8.035-447panda coryCorydoras panda4.0​20.0​25​6-8.036-358Gold CoryCorydoras melanotaenia6.0​20.0​23​6-7.236-268Julii Cory5.0​23.0​26​6-7.836-447Emerald Green CoryCorydoras splendens9.0​20.0​27​5.8-836-268Pygmy CoryCorydoras pygmaeus3.0​22.0​26​6.4-7.436-268Schwartz's CoryCorydoras schwartzi7.0​22.0​24​6-7.518-268Venezuelan Black CoryCorydoras Schultzei7.5​22.0​28​6-8.036-268Orange cory7.0​6-7.540-289Bulldog PlecChaetostoma sp.12.0​20.0​23​6.8-7.8144-447Bristlenose CatfishAncistrus12.0​21.0​25​5.5-7.518-268Inle LoachPetruichthys brevis6.0​18.0​24​6-8.054-268Siamese Flying FoxCrossocheilus atrilimes7.0​20.0​26​6-7.518-268Zebra DanioBrachydanio rerio5.0​18.0​25​6-8.090-357Celestial Pearl Danio (Galaxy Rasbora)Celestichthys margaritatus2.0​20.0​26​6.5-7.590-268Celebes RainbowfishMarosatherina ladigesi8.0​22.0​28​7-8.0179-386Neon Blue-eyePseudomugil cyanodorsalis3.5​21.0​31​7-8.5179-447Black MollyPoecilia Sphenops10.0​21.0​28​7.5-8.5179-447Sailfin MollyPoecilia latipinna12.5​21.0​26​7-8.5269-626Saffron MollyPoecilia Sphenops12.5​21.0​26​7-8.5269-626Dwarf GouramiTrichogaster lalius7.5​22.0​28​6-8.090-318Pearl Gourami12.0​24.0​30​5.5-836-537Thick Lipped GouramiTrichogaster labiosa10.0​22.0​27​6-7.590-268Honey GouramiTrichogaster Chuna5.5​22.0​27​6-7.536-268Golden PencilfishNannostomus beckfordi3.5​21.0​27​5-8.018-268Wrestling HalfbeakDermogenys pusilla7.0​24.0​28​6.5-8179 - 358

Asian RummynoseSawbwa resplendens3.5​18.0​22​6-8.054-268Daisy's RicefishOryzias woworae3.0​23​27​6-7.590-268Indian GlassfishParambassis ranga8.0​20.0​30​6.5 - 8.5142-358

Cheers,

  Simon


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## dw1305 (4 Dec 2020)

Hi all, 


ben_t said:


> Water changes are usually recommended to dilute these waste products so I was a bit concerned that my tap water apparently has a fair amount of nitrates. Maybe in a planted tank this will be less of an issue though as the plants will help balance things out.


That is it, plants actually do a lot more than just balance it out, they really are the <"gift that keeps on giving">.

Most forums, web sites and LFS massively under estimate just how effective plants are in removing all forms of fixed nitrogen. I've been a long term fish-keeper, but I have <"slightly different perspective"> because it is something I've had an interest in via my <"day job">. 


ben_t said:


> Rain water could be an option although a slightly scary one. We have a water butt for the garden but I’m not sure how clean the water is. There’s always slugs in there and the water doesn’t look totally clear and pure.


You can use a <"bioassay technique"> to monitor your water quality, but you do need quite a lot of water storage to tide you over the summer period.

A lot of people on forums etc are wary of rainwater,  but against that a lot of really <"experienced aquarists"> use it.  Have a look at this thread on <"PlanetCatfish">, the OP "MarcW" lives near you.  

cheers Darrel


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## castle (4 Dec 2020)

I've got a datatset somewhere with every known fish in the trade; let me see if I can get some fish ... You might enjoy this @Karmicnull

I've got a bot scraping every source, paper, site to build a complete list of known fish in the hobby - where they were caught, water parameters and all that. When I've finished it, I plan to pass it on to fishbase or just release it as a wiki. I've had to apply some horrendous techniques to recognises hardness/temp and ph in a paper, but it's getting there. No two papers agree on pH/hardness, but this is really a side side project.

As an aside, I can see straight away that this is the best matches so far, but if I apply a looser search I return 1900 fish, need to get better at the NLP stuff again.


NamepHhardnessTemperatureAbbottina rivularis6.0 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Abramites hypselonotus5.5 - 7.518-26820 - 30 °Acanthodoras cataphractus6.0 - 7.572-44722 - 26 °Acanthodoras spinosissimus6.0 - 7.572-44722 - 26 °Acheilognathus macropterus6.0 - 8.036-26814 - 22 °Acnodon normani5.5 - 7.536-26822 - 28 °Adinia xenica7.5 - 9.0179-53621 - 35 °.             .Aequidens tetramerus18 - 357 ;    .18-35724 - 27 °Agamyxis pectinifrons5.5 - 7.518-35722 - 26 °Ageneiosus inermis5.5 - 7.518-35722.5 - 26 °Ageneiosus ucayalensis5.5 - 7.518-35722.5 - 28 °Alcolapia alcalica8.0 - 10.0179-62528 - 38 °Alestopetersius caudalis5.0 - 7.536-26822 - 26 °Alfaro cultratus6.0 - 8.090-35724 - 28 °Allenbatrachus grunniens7.5 - 9.0268-44723 - 28 °Altolamprologus calvus7.5 - 9.0143-35724 - 27 °Altolamprologus compressiceps8.0 - 9.0125-44724 - 28 °Amatitlania nigrofasciata6.0 - 8.0.         .90-44724 - 28 °    -  .Ambastaia nigrolineata6.5 - 7.590-26820 - 25 °  .Amblydoras nauticus5.5 - 7.536-35723 - 28 °Ameca splendens7.0 - 8.0179-35724 - 24 °Amia calva6.0 - 7.554-26815 - 24 °.      ,  '                . ,         .Amphilophus calobrensis6.5 - 7.554-26822 - 27 °.Amphilophus citrinellus6.0 - 8.090-44721 - 26 °Amphilophus labiatus6.0 - 8.090-44721 - 26 °Anabas testudineus5.5 - 8.036-44715 - 30 °Anableps anableps7.5 - 9.0268-625;       25 - 31 °.Ancistrus claro6.0 - 7.536-26823 - 28 °Ancistrus sp.5.5 - 7.518-26821 - 26 °Andinoacara pulcher6.5 - 8.090-44722 - 28 °Andinoacara sp. Orinoco5.5 - 7.518-179524 - 28 °Anomalochromis thomasi5.5 - 7.518-26823 - 27 °Anostomus anostomus5.5 - 7.518-32220 - 28 °Anostomus ternetzi5.5 - 7.518-26820 - 28 °Aphanius arakensis7.0 - 8.5179-5368 - 32 °Aphanius baeticus7.0 - 9.0.        .179-6252 - 30 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius danfordii7.0 - 8.5179-53610 - 30 °.       ''                               .Aphanius dispar7.5 - 9.0.        .268-6254 - 30°Aphanius farsicus6.5 - 8.0179-5368 - 32 °.                    ''                         .Aphanius fasciatus7.5 - 9.0.        .179-5362 - 30 °. Aphanius iberus7.0 - 9.0.        .179-5362 - 30 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius mento7.5 - 9.0.        .179-5362 - 30 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius saourensis7.5 - 9.0.        .179-5362 - 30 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius sirhani7.0 - 8.5.        .179-44710 - 35 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius villwocki6.5 - 8.5         .         .179-5362 - 30 °.                   ''                         .Aphanius vladykovi6.2 - 8.5.179-35712 - 32 °.        ''                               .Aphyocharax anisitsi6.0 - 8.054-44718 - 28 °Aphyocharax nattereri5.5 - 7.518-26822 - 27 °Aphyocharax rathbuni6.5 - 7.536-35720 - 26 °Aphyosemion splendopleure6.0 - 7.254-26822 - 26 °Apistogramma borellii5.0 - 8.0         .18-26820 - 26 °Apistogramma cacatuoides5.0 - 6.00-26822 - 29 °Apistogramma hongsloi5.5 - 7.018-26823 - 29 °Aplocheilus blockii6.0 - 8.590-35720 - 28 °Aplocheilus parvus6.0 - 8.536-35720 - 28 °Ariopsis seemanni6.8 - 8.5179-53622 - 26 °Aristochromis christyi7.5 - 9.0179-53624 - 26 °Arnoldichthys spilopterus6.0 - 7.518-26824 - 27 °Astronotus ocellatus-          6.0 - 7.5  . -         .90-35720 - 28 °Astyanax bimaculatus5.5 - 7.536-35720 - 28 °Astyanax leopoldi5.5 - 7.018-26823 - 27 °Astyanax mexicanus6.5 - 8.090-44720 - 25 °Atractosteus spatula6.0 - 8.090-44711 - 23 °Atractosteus tropicus6.0 - 8.590-44722 - 28 °Aulonocara baenschi7.5 - 9.0179-44725 - 29 °Aulonocara ethelwynnae7.4 - 9.0179-44722 - 26 °Aulonocara hansbaenschi7.4 - 9.0179-44724 - 29 °Aulonocara jacobfreibergi7.5 - 9.0179-44725 - 29 °Aulonocara maylandi7.5 - 9.0179-44725 - 29 °Aulonocara sp. stuartgranti maleri7.5 - 9.0179-44725 - 29 °Aulonocara sp. walteri7.5 - 9.0179-44725 - 29 °Aulonocara stuartgranti7.5 - 9.0179-44723 - 29 °Badis badis6.0 - 7.554-26815 - 25 °Bagrichthys macracanthus5.5 - 7.018-26824 - 28 °Bagrichthys majusculus5.5 - 7.018-26824 - 28 °Bagrichthys obscurus5.5 - 7.018-26824 - 28 °Balantiocheilos melanopterus6.0 - 8.0         .36-26820 - 28 °Barbodes aurotaeniatus6.0 - 7.536-26818 - 26 °Barbodes semifasciolatus6.0 - 8.036-35716 - 24 °Barbonymus altus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 27 °Barbonymus gonionotus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Barbonymus schwanefeldii6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Barilius bendelisis6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Baryancistrus sp. cf. xanthellus6.4 - 7.654-26827 - 32 °;        .Baryancistrus xanthellus6.0 - 8.054-26827 - 32 °;        .Batasio tigrinus6.0 - 7.054-26817 - 23 °Beaufortia cyclica6.0 - 8.536-26816 - 24 °Beaufortia kweichowensis6.5 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Beaufortia szechuanensis6.5 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Bedotia madagascarensis4.5 - 7.5.            .0-26823 - 32 °           .Belontia hasselti4.5 - 8.518-44721 - 26 °Betta mahachaiensis7.0 - 8.590-35722 - 28 °Betta splendens18 - 268 ;       . - .18-268-22 - 30 °Boulengerochromis microlepis7.5 - 9.0179-44724 - 28 °Brachydanio albolineata6.0 - 8.018-35716 - 25 °Brachydanio rerio6.0 - 8.090-35718 - 25 °          .Brachydanio rosea6.0 - 7.536-26818 - 25 °Brachygobius doriae7.0 - 8.5143-35722 - 28 °Brachygobius sabanus7.0 - 8.5143-35722 - 28 °Brachygobius xanthomelas7.0 - 8.5143-35722 - 28 °Brachyplatystoma capapretum6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 28 °Brachyplatystoma filamentosum6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 28 °Brachyplatystoma platynemum6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 28 °Brachyplatystoma rousseauxii6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 28 °Brachyplatystoma vaillantii6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 28 °Butis amboinensis7.0 - 8.5143-35722 - 28 °Butis butis7.0 - 8.5179-35722 - 27 °Celestichthys erythromicron7.0 - 8.0.         .215-35720 - 24 °.Celestichthys margaritatus6.5 - 7.5;    7.3      .90-26820 - 26 °Chaetostoma formosae6.5 - 7.8143-44720 - 24 °Chagunius baileyi6.0 - 7.590-35718 - 25 °Chagunius chagunio6.0 - 7.536-35720 - 25 °Chalinochromis sp. ndobhoi8.0 - 9.0125-44724 - 28 °Channa andrao6.0 - 8.036-35714 - 28 °Channa argus6.0 - 8.090-4470 - 30 °Channa asiatica6.0 - 8.090-44715 - 25 °Channa aurantimaculata6.0 - 8.036-35710 - 28 °Channa barca6.0 - 8.036-35710 - 28 °Channa bleheri6.0 - 8.036-35714 - 28 °Channa burmanica6.0 - 8.036-35710 - 22 °Channa diplogramma6.0 - 8.036-35722 - 32 °Channa gachua5.0 - 8.018-35718 - 28 °.          ,                  ,            .Channa lucius5.0 - 7.536-26820 - 30 °Channa marulioides6.0 - 8.036-26822 - 30 °Channa marulius6.0 - 8.036-35715 - 28 °Channa micropeltes6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 30 °Channa sp. fire and ice6.0 - 7.536-26822 - 28 °Channa sp. five stripe6.0 - 8.036-35715 - 28 °Characodon lateralis6.0 - 8.090-26818 - 24 °Chitala blanci6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Chitala chitala6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Chitala lopis6.0 - 8.036-26822 - 28 °Chitala ornata6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Chlamydogobius eremius7.0 - 8.590-35720 - 28 °     .Chromidotilapia guntheri6.0 - 8.018-26824 - 27 °Cleithracara maronii4.0 - 7.536-26821 - 28 °Colomesus asellus5.5 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Colomesus psittacus7.0 - 9.0179-44720 - 26 °Corydoras aeneus6.0 - 8.036-26821 - 27 °Corydoras aurofrenatus6.0 - 8.036-26822 - 26 °Corydoras carlae6.5 - 8.054-26815 - 22 °Corydoras ehrhardti6.5 - 7.590-26818 - 23 °Corydoras elegans6.0 - 7.518-26820 - 26 °Corydoras ephippifer6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Corydoras eques6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Corydoras flaveolus6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Corydoras gladysae7.5 - 8.5179-3578 - 16 °Corydoras petracinii7.0 - 8.0179-35710 - 20 °Corydoras splendens5.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Crossocheilus atrilimes6.0 - 7.518-26820 - 26 °Crossocheilus langei6.0 - 7.518-26820 - 26 °Crossocheilus latius6.0 - 7.5   .36-26815 - 25°Cryptoheros myrnae7.0 - 8.5179-44723 - 26 °Cryptoheros nanoluteus5.0 - 7.5179-44723 - 26 °Ctenolucius hujeta5.0 - 7.518-26822 - 28 °Ctenopharyngodon idella6.0 - 9.036-4470 - 33 °Cualac tessellatus7.5 - 8.5804-94620 - 30 °Cyclocheilichthys apogon5.5 - 8.0         .18-35720 - 27 °Cyclocheilichthys armatus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Cyclocheilichthys heteronema6.0 - 7.518-26821 - 26 °Cyclocheilichthys lagleri6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Cyclocheilichthys repasson5.0 - 8.018-35720 - 26 °Cyclocheilos  enoplos6.0 - 8.018-26820 - 26 °Cynodon gibbus6.0 - 8.036-26824 - 28 °Cyphotilapia frontosa8.0 - 9.0179-44723 - 27 °Cyphotilapia gibberosa8.0 - 9.0179-44723 - 27 °Cyprinodon alvarezi7.0 - 8.0179-35717 - 26 °Danio dangila6.5 - 7.5   .36-26816 - 24 °Dario dario6.5 - 8.518-26818 - 26 °Datnioides campbelli7.5 - 9.0268-53620 - 28 °Datnioides microlepis5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Datnioides polota7.5 - 9.0268-53620 - 28 °Datnioides pulcher5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Datnioides undecimradiatus5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Dawkinsia filamentosa6.0 - 7.036-26820 - 25 °Dawkinsia tambraparniei6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 25 °Devario devario6.0 - 8.036-26815 - 26 °Devario malabaricus6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 25 °Devario neilgherriensis6.0 - 7.536-26816 - 24 °Devario regina5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 26 °Devario sp. giraffe6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Devario xyrops6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Epalzeorhynchos bicolor6.0 - 8.0         .36-26820 - 26 °Epalzeorhynchos frenatum6.5 - 8.0         .36-26820 - 26 °Epalzeorhynchos munense6.5 - 7.536-26820 - 26 °Erromyzon sp. ER016.5 - 8.036-26818 - 24 °Erromyzon sp. ER026.5 - 8.036-26818 - 24 °Etroplus maculatus7.0 - 8.5179-35720 - 28 °Etroplus suratensis7.0 - 8.5,                 0.02  28.00     5.0  9.6.179-35720 - 30 °Fundulopanchax gresensi6.0 - 7.518-26822 - 26 °Garra rufa6.0 - 8.018-26814 - 20 °;                .Geophagus brachybranchus5.0 - 7.018-179526 - 30 °Geophagus brasiliensis6.0 - 8.018-26818 - 28 °Geophagus dicrozoster4.0 - 7.018-179526 - 30 °.Geophagus megasema5.5 - 7.518-26822 - 30 °Gymnothorax tile7.5 - 9.0179-53620 - 28 °Gyrinocheilus aymonieri6.0 - 8.036-35716° - 32°Hampala dispar6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 25 °Hampala macrolepidota5.5 - 8.036-35720 - 26 °Hampala salweenensis6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 26 °Helostoma temminkii6.0 - 8.018-35722 - 30 °Hemibagrus punctatus6.0 - 7.036-26820 - 27 °Hemibagrus spilopterus6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 27 °Hemibagrus wyckii6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 27 °Hemibagrus wyckioides6.0 - 8.036-35719 - 29 °Hemimyzon formosanus6.5 - 8.036-26816 - 22 °              .Hemimyzon nanensis6.0 - 8.036-26816 - 22 °Homaloptera confuzona6.0 - 7.518-26820 - 25.5 °Hydrolycus armatus6.0 - 8.036-26824 - 28 °Hydrolycus scomberoides6.0 - 8.036-26824 - 28 °Hydrolycus tatauaia6.0 - 8.036-26824 - 28 °Hypancistrus sp.5.0 - 7.036-26826 - 30 °Hyphessobrycon anisitsi5.5 - 8.518-35716 - 28 °;Hyphessobrycon bifasciatus5.0 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Hyphessobrycon eques-                    5.0 - 7.5.               .18-26820 - 28 °Hypostomus sp.6.0 - 7.536-26822 - 28 °Hypseleotris compressa5.0 - 9.136-44720 - 35 °Hypsibarbus lagleri6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Hypsibarbus malcolmi6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Hypsibarbus vernayi6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Iksookimia hugowolfeldi7.0 - 8.090-26820 - 24 °              .Iksookimia koreensis7.0 - 8.090-26820 - 24 °              .Iksookimia pumila7.0 - 8.090-26820 - 24 °              .Iksookimia yongdokensis7.0 - 8.090-26820 - 24 °              .Incisilabeo behri6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Inlecypris auropurpurea6.0 - 8.054-26820 - 24 °Inlecypris maetaengensis6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Inlecypris shanensis6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Jordanella floridae6.5 - 8.536-35718 - 30 °Kryptopterus bicirrhis6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Kryptopterus cryptopterus6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 27 °Kryptopterus geminus6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Kryptopterus limpok6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Kryptopterus palembangensis6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Labeo boga6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 24 °Labeo chrysophekadion6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Labiobarbus leptocheilus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Laetacara curviceps4.5 - 7.518-26820 - 28 °Laetacara dorsigera5.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Laetacara thayeri4.5 - 7.518-26820 - 28 °Lamontichthys filamentosus5.5 - 7.536-26822 - 30 °Lepidocephalichthys annandalei5.5 - 7.536-26822.5 - 26 °Lepidocephalichthys cf. irrorata5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Lepidocephalichthys jonklaasi5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Lepisosteus oculatus6.0 - 8.090-35712 - 20 °Leporinus fasciatus5.0 - 7.518-26820 - 28 °Leporinus friderici5.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Leptobarbus hoevenii6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Leptobarbus rubripinna6.0 - 8.090-26820 - 26 °Leptobotia elongata6.5 - 7.590-35715.5 - 21 °Leptobotia guilinensis6.5 - 7.590-35715.5 - 21 °                          .Leptobotia microphthalma6.5 - 7.590-35715.5 - 21Leptobotia pellegrini6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 24 °Leptobotia rubrilabris6.5 - 7.590-35715.5 - 21 °                          .Leptobotia taeniops6.5 - 7.590-35715.5 - 21 °                          .Liniparhomaloptera disparis6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 24 °Luciosoma bleekeri6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Macrochirichthys macrochirus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Macropodus erythropterus6.0 - 8.090-35720 - 30 °Macropodus hongkongensis6.0 - 8.090-35715 - 25 °Macropodus ocellatus6.0 - 7.590-35710 - 22 °Macropodus opercularis6.0 - 8.090-35710 - 22 °Macropodus spechti6.0 - 8.090-35720 - 30 °Megalechis picta5.0 - 7.5268-35718 - 28 °Mekongina erythrospila6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 26 °Microrasbora rubescens6.0 - 8.054-26820 - 24 °Mystacoleucus argenteus6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 27 °Mystacoleucus greenwayi6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 27 °Mystacoleucus obtusirostris6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 27 °Myxocyprinus asiaticus6.0 - 8.036-35715 - 26.6°Nannostomus beckfordi18 - 268 ;       .18-26821 - 27 °Nemacheilus corica6.0 - 8.036-26815 - 24 °Neoheterandria elegans7.0 - 8.090-44724 - 30 °,                  .Neolamprologus pulcher8 - 9161-44723 - 27 °Neosilurus brevidorsalis6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Nothobranchius eggersi7.0 - 8.2179-53620 - 24 °Nothobranchius foerschi6.5 - 7.5179-44720 - 24 °Notopterus notopterus6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Opsarius barna6.0 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Opsarius koratensis6.0 - 8.036-26822 - 30 °Oreichthys cosuatis6.5 - 7.590-26824 - 28 °Oryzias celebensis7.0 - 9.0;            .90-44723 - 27 °Oryzias dancena6.5 - 8.590-44723 - 27 °Oryzias eversi6.0 - 7.590-26818 - 24 °Oryzias javanicus7.0 - 9.0            .90-44724 - 29 °Oryzias latipes6.5 - 8.590-44716 - 22 °.Oryzias mekongensis6.0 - 7.536-26823 - 27 °Oryzias minutillus6.0 - 7.536-26823 - 32 °Oryzias sarasinorum6.0 - 7.590-35724 - 29 °Oryzias wolasi7.0 - 8.0179-35723 - 27 °Oryzias woworae6.0 - 7.590-26823 - 27 °Osteoglossum bicirrhosum5.0 - 7.536-26820 - 30 °Pachypanchax omalonotus6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Pachypanchax playfairii6.0 - 8.090-26818 - 24 °Parabotia bimaculata6.0 - 7.536-35720 - 24 °  .Parabotia fasciata6.0 - 7.590-35720 - 24 °Parabotia lijiangensis6.0 - 7.590-35720 - 24 °Parabotia sp. PB016.0 - 7.590-35720 - 24 °Parachanna africana5.0 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Paramisgurnus dabryanus6.0 - 8.018-35716 - 23 °Peckoltia bachi6.0 - 8.036-26822 - 29 °Peckoltia oligospila5.5 - 7.536-26824 - 30 °Pethia conchonius6.0 - 8.090-35716 - 24 °Pethia manipurensis5.5 - 7.536-26818 - 25 °Pethia nigrofasciata-                    5.5 - 7.5.           .36-26820 - 27 °Pethia padamya6.5 - 8.590-35716 - 25 °Pethia pookodensis5.5 - 7.536-26820 - 25 °Pethia setnai6.0 - 7.590-26820 - 26 °Pethia stoliczkana6.0 - 7.518-26818 - 26 °Petruichthys brevis6.0 - 8.054-26818 - 24 °Petruichthys sp. rosy6.5 - 8.0;    7.3       .90-26820 - 26 °Phalacronotus apogon6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 27 °Phalloceros caudimaculatus7.0 - 8.090-44716 - 22 °Poecilia reticulata7.0 - 8.5143-53617 - 28 °Pseudacanthicus cf. leopardus5.5 - 7.518-26824 - 30 °Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis7.0 - 8.5;       .179-44721 - 31 °Pseudomugil furcatus7.0 - 8.0268-53624 - 28 °.Pseudomugil signifer6.5 - 7.590-26820 - 26 °Pseudomugil tenellus5.5 - 7.590-35725 - 32 °.Pseudosphromenus cupanus6.0 - 7.536-44720 - 28 °Pseudosphromenus dayi6.0 - 7.536-26820 - 28 °Pundamilia nyererei7.0 - 8.572-26823 - 27 °Puntigrus tetrazona5.0 - 8.0;      ,          .18-35720 - 26 °Puntius bimaculatus6.0 - 7.536-26818 - 24 °Puntius chola5.5 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Puntius mahecola6.0 - 7.590-26818 - 24 °Puntius sahyadriensis6.0 - 7.836-26818 - 24 °Puntius snyderi6.0 - 8.036-35718 - 24 °Puntius titteya-                    6.0 - 8.0.           .36-35720 - 27 °Pygocentrus piraya6.0 - 8.036-35720 - 28 °Rhaphiodon vulpinus6.0 - 8.036-26824 - 28 °Rhinogobius chiengmaiensis6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °.            .Rhinogobius filamentosus6.0 - 8.054-26818 - 25 °Rhinogobius flumineus6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 25 °Rhinogobius formosanus6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 28 °Rhinogobius gigas6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 28 °Rhinogobius giurinus6.5 - 8.536-35718 - 24 °Rhinogobius lanyuensis6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 25 °Rhinogobius leavelli6.0 - 8.036-26820 - 28 °Rhinogobius lentiginis6.0 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Rhinogobius maculafasciatus6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 24 °Rhinogobius mekongianus6.0 - 7.536-26818 - 26 °Rhinogobius nantaiensis6.0 - 8.090-26818 - 28 °Rhinogobius yaoshanensis6.0 - 8.036-26816 - 24 °Rocio octofasciata6.5 - 8.090-35720 - 30 °Sahyadria chalakkudiensis6.5 - 7.590-35715 - 25 °Sahyadria denisonii6.5 - 7.890-44715 - 25 °Sawbwa resplendens6.0 - 8.054-26818 - 22 °Schistura pridii7.0 - 8.590-26818 - 24 °Schistura savona6.5 - 8.536-26815 - 24 °Scleropages formosus5.0 - 8.036-26822 - 28 °Serrasalmus brandtii5.0 - 8.036-35720 - 26 °Sinibotia pulchra6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 25.5 °Sinibotia reevesae6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 25.5 °Sinibotia robusta6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 25.5 °Sinibotia superciliaris6.5 - 8.036-26820 - 25.5 °Sinogastromyzon wui6.5 - 8.090-26817 - 23Sphaerichthys osphromenoides4.0 - 6.5    ,  -     .0-5410-26 - 31 °Sphaerichthys selatanensis4.0 - 6.5    ,  -     .0-5410-26 - 31 °Syncrossus berdmorei6.5 - 7.590-26821 - 26 °Systomus orphoides6.0 - 8.036-35718 - 26 °Tanichthys albonubes6.0 - 8.590-35714 - 22 °Thorichthys meeki6.5 - 8.536-26820 - 32 °Trichogaster chuna6.0 - 7.536-26822 - 27 °Trichopsis vittata5.0 - 7.518-26822 - 28 °Xenentodon cancila6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 30 °Xenentodon canciloides6.0 - 8.036-26818 - 26 °Xiphophorus hellerii7.0 - 8.0179-44716 - 28 °Yaoshania pachychilus6.5 - 7.536-26820 - 23.9°


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## Karmicnull (4 Dec 2020)

castle said:


> You might enjoy this @Karmicnull


Oh boy - you are talking my language here.  I'm loving that table.  I feel a big paste into excel and a lot of playing with data coming on this evening. Bring on that list of all known fish!


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## aec34 (4 Dec 2020)

I am absolutely no expert but I use primarily rainwater for a pair of little tanks, but with a combined volume of only 35 litres (because I was worried about high ph of my tap). I’ve got one butt linked off another, and draw from the second so any bits settle out in the first - I read this somewhere on here. I’m sure I’ve had a few random beasties get in (water fleas, a few tiny worms) from it, but so far it’s been very straightforward and the plants and shrimp are happy - can’t speak for fish. I keep a couple of 5 litre plastic containers filled with it in the house so it’s not too cold.

_EDIT: looks like a bunch of copepods have made their way in.. 😳 *reaches for cleaning kit_


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