# melting bacopa - more light needed ?



## Pysgodyn (17 Jul 2017)

Hi, 

I have some stems of bacopa in a newly setup tank. (over a month now)  I moved it last week to the middle to get max light.    tank depth is ~ 32cm.  I have just 2 18W  T8  tubes ( old ish probably, tank was 2nd hand)

It continues to shed leaves from the bottom upwards to nearly the very top.  seems to have maybe a couple of new leaves at the tip.     At this rate I'm going to have 15cm stems with 3 leaves at the tip !

Is this a lack of light ?    Should I just give up on it and substitute a different plant ?  (I like the leaf shape)

I'm going to put reflectors on the tubes.   I'm also thinking I might add a white led strip tube (eg juwel novolux 80) is this worth doing.

also I started dosing  easycarbo (1ml each morning tank is 95ish liters)  and 2-5ml of profito after a water change (25% ish  every 4-5 days at the moment) 

G.


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## Zeus. (17 Jul 2017)

I Have Bacopa Monnieri  in a very low tech tank and it grows fine. Sounds like a light issue to me, did you replace the T8 tubes for new ones?


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## Pysgodyn (17 Jul 2017)

Hi,

I've no idea what sort of bacopa I have.   (other than poorly!)

I've not replaced both tubes yet.  As it came (and I think as juwel sold it)  it had a daylight tube and a warm (pale peach colour) tube.  The latter does look a little dimmer, so I got the new tube yesterday, but didn't get around to swapping it in yet.    
It's a non-juwel tube ready to go in (cant remember the brand/colour off hand,  I seem to remember it saying 'fish and plants' at least, maybe 'interpet').  It may be the wrong colour however as I think it's slightly pink rather than the Juwel peach.(colours when off)    

what do people think of the idea of having 2 'plant' tubes in (ie I don't replace the daylight tube like for like) and a white LED ?

would the Juwel brand tubes be better ?

G.


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## Konsa (17 Jul 2017)

Hi
It will be good idea to share more info about your setup (filter type and flowrate,lenght of photoperiod, sustrate type, how long the tank is been running,ferilisers regime and watetchanges shedule,livestock,CO2)as people are guessing the resons atm it might be few things.Photos will be great too.
Profito doesn't contain macro elements N and P.You may have severe N deficiency.
From my experience is almost never the light what is causing the problem.The ammount of Easycarbo is not enough as it is dosed 1ml per 25l high plant mass to 50l low plant mass.It can cause deficiency for nutrien as is carbon sorce and increases the demmand.As for the tubes if I recall correctly Jewel tubes are different lengths compated to the rest or it mey be only T5s.The plants dont care about the brands .Get some cheap tubes from somwhere instead spending 15-20quid per piece.There is a tread in the lighting forum about colour temperatures of different cheap brand T5 tubes i guess can be applied to T8s too.
Regards Konsa


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## Pysgodyn (18 Jul 2017)

Ta for the reply.  I am a total beginner, so generally confused by things !

 I'll have a look to see if I can find that thread about tube colour.

I haven't checked the tube size closely !   I'll have a look tonight, I assumed 24" tubes would be interchangeable. 

As it's a new-ish tank I'm dosing 'lightly' at the moment anyway.  might be too lightly to make any difference.

No idea if there isn't enough nitrate about, not sure how I'd know for sure, unless I had an excess ?
It measures low on simple a water test, though I have a fair amount of plants and had fish in there for a couple of weeks,  possibly a tiny hint of nitrite on the test strip, but it went down a lot so I sort of assumed the cycling was going OK.   I don't think I bothered with an ammonia test last time.    I'm changing water fairly frequently so I wasn't sure if the nitrate has that much chance to get large ? 

Also, the Vallis isn't happy either,   but a bit happier in the smaller tank which just has some domestic LED bulbs pointed at it !

I'll try to post a photo or two tonight.

G.


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## Konsa (18 Jul 2017)

Hi
The tread in the lighting forum is the first sticky on top.You wont miss it.
The test are very unreliable and influenced my many things.Dont go too crazy about using them as is likely to get all sorts of measurements.Valis dont like Easycarbo if U keep using it will die off.About the light tubes I meant that 24w Jewel is different lenght of a standard 24w tube.If U have measured it there is no problem changing it with one same size just make sure U check what watage U getting and if the ballast can support it.
Regards Konsa


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## Pysgodyn (19 Jul 2017)

hi all !

ok i attach pics of the bacopa ,  the tank hood lights on,  the whole tank layout and a bonus dying vallis closeup.
(phone photos , so fuzzy)

so i have two juwel 18w t8 tubes, one 'daylight' the other dimmer one 'warm'.
tank is 95ish litres has currently 3 danios and 7 wcmm in.  stock juwel filter.  

you can see the light is rather central. 60cm tubes in a 80cm tank!
so 0.3 ish w/litre,  if that !   tank is ~32cm deep.

so a bit more light I was thinking  might well help ?

G.


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## Pysgodyn (20 Jul 2017)




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## Konsa (20 Jul 2017)

Hi
Looking at the photos.It seems it is flow issue at the lower part near the substrate resulting of poor nutrient distribution. U may try to addapt a spraybar on the lenght of the back or add a circulation pump extra.
In one of my overgrown  low techs I have some browning in the base of some stems and Im dosing 1/2 EI with the light dimmed a lot with floaters due to poor flow aldough not as severe as yours.
I will definitely replase the pinkish tube with a white one(the use 6500k ones always gave me good results )Btw your lights look bright enough.You dont really want too much light in low tech.
Regards Konsa


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## Pysgodyn (22 Jul 2017)

hi all,

2 things.

1.  flow is fine,  I have a koralia nano 900 pump in the bottom back corner, opposite the juwel internal filter. 

2.   i just had a thought.  I replaced the original filter media like-for-like when i bought the tank 2nd hand,  so i put in the juwel nitrax foam (green).   is this going to be pulling nutrients out of the water and starving the plants ?  ie should i replace it with a std filter foam ? 

i did put in a carbon filter for a couple of weeks at the start, but i've removed that now.  i think it did help with the mopani wood tannins at the start.


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## Pysgodyn (22 Jul 2017)

i've added reflectors to the t8 tubes,  so a tiny bit ore light is there.


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## Pysgodyn (22 Jul 2017)

oh and there is more background to the tank setup history in my intro thread.

I'm still a bit confused by lighting.   I'll try to read the stuff in the lighting forum, and might post there. Still looks like an easy , cheapish, option for a little bit more light is the juwel novolux 80 white tube, about the same output as a 24" t8 daylight I assume.  not sure I want to replace the whole hood and lightling system, as this would be 100+quid.


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## Zeus. (22 Jul 2017)

Carbon filters also remove the ferts, so good to took it out

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## Pysgodyn (26 Jul 2017)

hi.

taken nitrate sponge out, put in 'hollow' old sponge with ceramic tube thingies in it.  hope that helps. 
reflectors put on tubes.
then went away for a few days ...  came back to
  1. more growth - yeay !!
2. bacopa still looks grim
3. brown algae bloom - doh 
4.  missing 2 fish    (can't find them !)   double doh. 

have added  more crypts for foreground - tropica 
more java fern (a mini version)  
also have some trident java fern ... but need to find something tallish to tie it to (i'm thinking back corners of tank)!  maybe some slate.

so..... i'm still learning....
and a bit confused.  


wondering about small extra led lamp still.... a10w novolux 80 tube  or 20w  arcadia stretch bar ?

g.


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## Zeus. (26 Jul 2017)

Think I would hold off on extra light for while, the reflectors can have a pretty big impact, about 25%.
Like Kinda said lows the flow?
May also need a good growing of the Bacopa snip and replant before it looks good again. But good to hear about the new growth same about the brown aglea. The photo period may be too long with the reflectors fitted also.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## HiNtZ (18 Aug 2017)

What are your phosphates around? My plants usually ditch lower leaves when they drop low.


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## Pysgodyn (20 Aug 2017)

hi,
no idea about phosphates, don't have a test kit.    I chopped the best tips off and put them back in the substrate at the front to i can keep an eye on them, haven't really melted anymore yet !    
I will post a new therad as I'm pondering my liquid ferts.


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## HiNtZ (30 Aug 2017)

Looks like bacopa australis - grown it both in low tech no CO2 and high tech with CO2 where it turned pink. Not a hard plant to grow by any means but I noticed it likes good flow.

Try and leave a few stems un-cut while you work the problem out. It will act as a timeline to compare bad growth to new growth with each change you make on one stem. Obviously the newly planted healthy tips can be used to see if it is indeed low flow around the base that is the issue.

If there isn't enough of a macronutrient in the water column to help the plant reach the light, it will strip those nutrients from lower leaves that aren't getting as much light. It's a survival thing. Like I said though..... total leaf loss at the base for me has always been low phosphates, and maybe a little bit of bad flow.


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