# Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Now FOR SALE !



## Tony Swinney

So here we go with an all new journal     This is the tank that sits where my discus tank used to live, and is 5' x 2' x 2' with an optiwhite front panel.  It's sunken into the wall of our kitchen-diner, and backs into our utility room (which is becoming more of a flaura and fauna room by the day   ).  Here is the tank in location, in its last incarnation:






That tank has now been ripped out, and the discus have gone to a new home, so its a fresh start today:

*Tank:*  60 x 24 x 24".  Approx 420L filled (allowing for substrate and hardscape)
*Lighting:*  6 x 54w T5HO  (2 on for 5hrs a day, plus 2 for 3 hours a day after week 2)
*Filtration:* 2 x Eheim 2075
*Powerheads:* 2 x Koralia 3's
*Co2:* Pressurised into 2 x AquaMedic 1000 reactors
*Ferts:*  EI
*Water Change:* 20% fresh RO/HMA everyday just after lights on
*Substrate:* Unipac gravel, ADA Malaya (plus Powersand)
*Hardscape:* 55kg of Fossilised Wood from TGM

Whilst I sorted out the discus I had the tank sitting in my studio for a while, so that gave me a good chance to move rocks around endlessly until I came up with this placement:





and viewed from above:





which led me to working out my initial planting plan so I could get things ordered. I'm sure things will change as the day goes on, but this is my starting point  :





Yesterday, I moved the tank into place in the alcove, and started scaping !  I placed some Tropica substrate on the bottom of the tank, then added the Unipac gravel and filled it to about 4" deep at the back to pack out the height.  On top of this went the Powersand and ADA additives:





This was then all capped with Malaya:





This morning my plants will arrive from TGM and PlantedTanks, so I'll be prepping glosso stems for a while then planting it up    More pics later on 

Tony


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## hydrophyte

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Wow that hardscape is incredible!


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## Mark Evans

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

killer hardscape Tony.


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## russchilds

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Looks great!!! What a great spot for a tank! Love the hardscape!


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## Nelson

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

amazing rockwork.going to be another amazing tank.
any idea what fish you're going for.


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## Mark Evans

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Tony, if i may?

i keep coming back to view the images it's that good. i Cant help but feel though, the first image without substrate is better than the final one. you can see more of the stone base.

the first image layout just blows me away! and actually, is the best hardscape i've ever seen and makes me want to cry and give up.


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## Vito

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

My god it looks awesome, and it isnt even planted. Really impressive stuff mate.
Where did you get that wood?


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## mlgt

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

wheres the *like* button on this???? 
Looking forward to seeing it in the flesh soon!


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## keymaker

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Absolutely gorgeous! Really promising.  
(The hardscape arrangement is perfect!)


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## samc

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

you make it look easy tony  

i like that you are going to use parrot feather too. its pretty rare in aquascapes but looks great.


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## Graeme Edwards

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

You know what I think pal. All I want to say is... Once it's up, you will have to have me and the misses over so we can sit at the breakfast bar with a glass of red. You know it's happening. 

Can't wait to see it planted, can't find fault with the scape.


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Another amazing scape Tony, this just blows away the previous Discus tank and most tank here on the site, looking forward to seeing this planted and developing


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## AdAndrews

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

That is simply superb, Im loving seeing great scapers like yourself come up with this stuff, such an inspiration!

Adam


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## Gill

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Simply Stunning Hardscape, Can see why you chose the name.


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## hazeljane

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Looks ace    


Stu.


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## keymaker

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

I keep thinking about your idea of "bending" the composition to the right with all the rocks leaned right.





Nature has produced many formations with this "idea in mind", yet I had to experiment a little --- trying to pull the composition back to it's less tense state - equilibrium if you wish... Here's what I came up with in the first round. Not sure it works, just had to test it...


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## Graeme Edwards

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

I don't think it works. It was all cohesive before, but the new idea doesn't ballance the rest of the stones out, so to me it looks unnatural and stands out. 

I really can't pick point with it.


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## zig

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

It doesnt really do it for me either Keymaker I think the original hardscape is best, it works better for me anyhow. I think Saintly has a point though, the first shot looks best as well IMO. Just subtle differences between that shot and the others but they are there. Nothing that cant be ironed out and im sure they will, overall great job, lets see the plants in


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## Garuf

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

It's gonna be great what ever. It reminds me a lot of pride rock from Lion king, any chance of sneaking a baboon and lion into the scape? 

I prefer your very first shot too, there's just that "something", the subtlety of the textures is fantastic and once softened and further balanced by the greens of your plants it will look absolutely great, I think the key will be to not go too overboard with plant forms, I think red plants and pinnate plants might not sit right with the colour of the rock. Best of luck I'm sure it'll be great.


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## Stu Worrall

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

WOW Tony! back with a vengence!  Stunning landscape youve built up there.  I'd echo what saintly and zig said about the original, i liked it slightly more due to the interesting nooks and crannies.  Haveing said that i cant tell the soil depth on the original so it may not have been deep enough for you to plant.  Really like the planting list too. Roll on planting time


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## George Farmer

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Super job, Tony!    

Best hardscape I've seen in a long while; not just because of the great selection and composition but it's so refreshing.

And it must be good also for Graeme to bother to comment on someone's 'scape!    

Photography is spot on too; although I wouldn't expect anything less...  Love the plans too.

This is another one to watch...  There's so many on UKAPS now, it's brilliant!

Finally, I know what a busy guy you are so thanks for taking the time and effort to share and inspire us all!


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## keymaker

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> And it must be good also for Graeme to bother to comment on someone's 'scape!


Observe that he has actually commented my comment on the scape, not the scape itself.   
Btw he's right...


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## andyh

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Tony,

Truly first class scaping, it still makes me smile how excited we all get by some well placed hardscape! 

You have created something unique, and i cant wait to see what your planting is going to be like. Journals like yours are what attracted me to UKAPS in the first place.


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## George Farmer

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*



			
				keymaker said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it must be good also for Graeme to bother to comment on someone's 'scape!
> 
> 
> 
> Observe that he has actually commented my comment on the scape, not the scape itself.
> Btw he's right...
Click to expand...

Observe that Graeme posted before your comment as well...  

When will you be planting, Tony?


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Blimey       Thankyou all 

I've been planting glosso for the past 4 hours and there's still lots to do so I'll crack on and will be back to reply to everyone and post some pics later on - much later   

Cheers

Tony


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Just finished 11 hours of planting     ! 

Thanks again for all your kind words and comments on the hardscape.  Those sort of comments from the calibre of scapers on ukaps are very warmly received.  I just hope the planted tank looks better than the unplanted version - I seem to be OK at hardscaping, but I struggle with the plant selection and positioning - more practise needed I guess 

Anyhows, I'll try to answer some of the questions:



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> any idea what fish you're going for.



Hi Neil.  I'm thinking a large shoal of either neon yellow microrasbora kubotai  or gelius barb ( I saw a shoal of about 40 today and they were schooling beautifully ).  I'm thinking about a black background to this tank so the gelius barbs may work really nice 



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Tony, if i may?
> I Cant help but feel though, the first image without substrate is better than the final one. you can see more of the stone base.



Hi Mark.  Of course you may   I see exactly what you mean, and agree it looked better.  I think I used too much gravel to pack out the malaya, so once that was added I lost the lower detail.  I lowered the level of the substrate in the hollow before I started planting, so hopefully that'll go some way to rectifying this.



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> Where did you get that wood?



Hi Vito

The wood is TGM's fossilised wood, though technically I guess its rocks now   



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Once it's up, you will have to have me and the misses over so we can sit at the breakfast bar with a glass of red. You know it's happening.



You got it Graeme   Just dont ask me to count how many plants are in there    



			
				keymaker said:
			
		

> Nature has produced many formations with this "idea in mind", yet I had to experiment a little --- trying to pull the composition back to it's less tense state - equilibrium if you wish... Here's what I came up with in the first round. Not sure it works, just had to test it...



Hi Keymaker, thanks for taking the time to try this - always good to look at options.  I see more tension in this version than the actual scape though, with that triangle it creates in the middle.




So its all planted up now, and filling as I type.   I chose to do the 6 pots of glosso and the 7 pots of hydrocotyle  sibthorpoides (maritima) stem by stem, and it took hours to split it all up and plant it  - hence me typing this at 3am waiting to get the filters on   

I'm not sure about the background plants yet - I think they'll need some tweaking once I see it filled but thats OK.  I'll give it a couple of days and see how I feel.

If it is all clear in the morning, and looks OK I'll get some pics up.

Cheers

Tony


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## B7fec

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Hi Tony,

Just wanted to say that the rock work you've produced here is amazing, simply stunning! The detail in the rock is great along with the composition! Aquascaping at it's best, you should be proud mate. I am looking forward to seeing the finished setup with plants and can say this much if the planting matches the level of the rock work, we'll be looking at one of the very best tanks on UKAPS!!

Cheers Ben


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## Nelson

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

wow.that was some marathon glosso planting session.
i love neon yellow microrasbora kubotai,but with a black background both of your choices would look great.


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## Graeme Edwards

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> keymaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it must be good also for Graeme to bother to comment on someone's 'scape!
> 
> 
> 
> Observe that he has actually commented my comment on the scape, not the scape itself.
> Btw he's right...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Observe that Graeme posted before your comment as well...
> 
> When will you be planting, Tony?
Click to expand...


What are you two on about??? Plonkers :0)

I'm looking forward to seeing it planted, I just hope you had enough plants,how frustrating if you couldn't find enough the day you wanted to plant, lol


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

Thanks Ben and Neil 



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> I just hope you had enough plants,how frustrating if you couldn't find enough the day you wanted to plant, lol



I dont know what you mean Graeme, I had plenty (once I found them   )

After a bit of a lie-in to recover fro the planting epic, I got on with setting up the hardware for the tank today - 2 x eheim 2075s, each with an Aqua Medic CO2 reactor, and a Hydor 300w external heater which turned out to be knackered so waiting for another one of those to arrive    I've got a koralia 2 and a koralia 3 in there for now to get the flow circulating nicely with the filters  

The CO2 is cranked up with the drop-checker nice and yellow, and the lights are set to 2 tubes on for 6 hours a day initially.  I'll star dosing EI tomorrow too.

Anyway, enough waffle, here are the pics from planting day yesterday....

This was the final hardscape before planting, with the substrate lowered a bit in the hollow, and a few graded gravels added, though most of this will be covered by the glosso carpet:





Splitting and planting the 6 pots of glosso took about 4 hours:









Then some more water, and the Hydrocotyle sibthorpoides (maritima) and Hygrophila pinnatifida go in :





More water and then the Ceratopteris Siliquosa (Fine Leaf Indian Fern) went in, along with the Aponogeton Crispus Red, Eleocharis Vivipara, and the two different parrot feathers I've been sent - Myriophyllum Aquaticum from 'planted tanks.co.uk' in the back left corner, and Myriophyllum Matogrossense from TGM at the back and to the right of the trunk...





Finally I've added some Tonina Fluviatilis, and a bit of Echinodorus Vesuvius, though both of these may stay or go depending on how they develop ( as can be said for all the background plants really   ). Then it was time to fill her up...





So for now, it is done.  I'm really happy with the hardscape, and the glosso, hydrocotyle and pinnatifida planting.  The indian ferns may just accentuate the joins in the 'trunk' too much and get too tall, but we'll see, I may replace them with Bolbitis Heudoliti instead.  I'm not entirely happy with the background plants and suspect they will change a bit over the next month or two depending on how they develop - I'm rubbish at envisaging how they will grow so I'll see how they go and then decide.

I'm waiting for few more bits to finish off the auto-water change system, but that'll be done in the next couple of days, and once its done I can fit up the tank backing, which will be black for a change (though I have diffused at the ready too, just in case   ) as I think the depth of the tank can handle it, and it should allow the flaura and fauna to stand out.

Here are a few more pics, as it stands tonight, end of day 2 !













As always comments and critiques are very welcome   

Cheers

Tony


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## NeilW

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Incredible, genuinely awesome.    Just looks really dynamic.  Be great to see the sense of scale when the discus go in.


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Thanks Neil . No discus this time though, just a large shoal of something small 

Tony


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## NeilW

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> That tank has now been ripped out, and the discus have gone to a new home, so its a fresh start today:


*slaps head* it's too late for my liking  

Smaller fish would make it look even bigger!  I bet they'll appreciate a 420 litre paradise too.


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## viktorlantos

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

OMG i did not realized earlier the tank is so huge. The planting photos with you helped to imagine the right size of it.   Just after that i realized how beauty is your hardscape especially in this size. Amazing tank mate.   

Looks good with plants can not wait to see this a few weeks later. Great job!


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## flygja

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

As if the hardscape isn't already awesome, I feel that your plant selection is really spot on! A Triassic Hollow with proper "era" plants like Hydrocotyle sibthorpoides and Hygrophila pinnatifida. Can't wait to see this develop into a work of art. 

Think I'll go watch my Jurassic Park DVDs now


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## Mark Evans

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

quality Tony, absolute quality. 

I'm sure over the next week or so you'll work out what you want stem wise in the rear. 

Just remember to take into consideration trimming heights, what's in front of the stem to cover the lower half after trimming. things like that. The stones are perfect cover for hiding lower parts of stems.

top bombing mate


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## hydrophyte

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow"*

This is just stunning!



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

>



And I had no idea of the size of this setup. I didn't look twice for the tank size. It's huge!



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

>


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## John Starkey

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Hi Tony,I just love everyhing about this setup,the hardscape,the design of it ,the planting,all in all a stunning setup which will only get better and better,I can remember when I first met you at Tgm nearly 2 years ago,you were wondereing round the store with a face like a kid in a sweet shop (pure heaven),well from those early days to present I think we can safely say you have reache the  great height of planted tank expert in my opinion,and I think this setup will only prove that even more,exellent absolutley exellent,I look forward to watching it grow in,
regards,
john.


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> OMG i did not realized earlier the tank is so huge.





			
				hydrophyte said:
			
		

> And I had no idea of the size of this setup. I didn't look twice for the tank size. It's huge!



Its a fair size, and a bit of a pig to work with as its quite high in the wall, and theres only 6inches of accessabove it at the front -  I reckon I put in over 300 plantlets of glosso    



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> I feel that your plant selection is really spot on! A Triassic Hollow with proper "era" plants like Hydrocotyle sibthorpoides and Hygrophila pinnatifida


Thanks flyga - thats what I was hoping folk would get   Enjoy Jurassic Park   



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Just remember to take into consideration trimming heights, what's in front of the stem to cover the lower half after trimming. things like that. The stones are perfect cover for hiding lower parts of stems.



Thanks Mark - I have alot to learn in this department as I havent had any success with stems to date     If all else fails I'll resort to Blyxa and Balansae back there, which I think would look pretty good actually  



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Tony,I just love everyhing about this setup,the hardscape,the design of it ,the planting,all in all a stunning setup which will only get better and better,I can remember when I first met you at Tgm nearly 2 years ago,you were wondereing round the store with a face like a kid in a sweet shop



Hi John

Thanks very much mate - I really appreciate your words.  This is where all the substrate and additives I bought from you ended up so they were put to good use   I might yet add some of your old crypt weditii tropica in there too   

Cheers

Tony


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Awesome job Tony, planted its looking even better  looking forward to watching it developing, one of the best tanks here without a doubt, congrats


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## samc

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

good job on the planting tony.

cant wait to see it in a couple of months, should be top class!


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## keymaker

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Stunning on all counts, Tony.

I will now have to admit that I considered your Peacocks Crypt scape so inspiring that it was set as desktop bkgd on my 24" when you uploaded it. I just realized that you did that on june 22, 2009.  Almost a year, Mate... It looks like I will have to change it soon though.


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## Nelson

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

absolutely amazing   .
i was about to rescape my 200ltr,but feel like giving up now   .


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Thanks guys   Nice screensaver keymaker, let me know if you want a hires file to replace it with   

Never give up Neil 

I've just replanting a few floaters - some glosso and hydrocotyle that had lifted up.  Other than that so far so good.  I'll do a big water change tomorrow, and should get the replacement heater too so I can warm it up 

Tony


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## sanj

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

Ha ha I was in TGM when you called about your plants 

Very nice hardscape. Im kinda struggling with mine, most of it recycled stuff...oh well, will persevere.


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Im kinda struggling with mine, most of it recycled stuff...oh well, will persevere



Perseverence is the only way - I struggled with this for 6 weeks before reaching this arrangement   

So the end of Day3, and a few new snaps.  The fine leaf indian fern is struggling a bit, with some leaves yellowing and appearing to shrivel up a bit.  Both parrot feathers are doing OK, with new growth evident already   The glosso and hydrocotyle seems to look a bit 'fresher' today, except for those floaters that the koralias have tried to swallow up   

The new heater should be here tomorrow so i can bring the temperature back up, its only 18ÂºC in there right now, which cant be helping things.

A few pics from tonight...


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## flygja

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

You're forcing me to wipe my jaw off the table every couple of days now    Utterly brilliant!


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## russchilds

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

Amazing!! Looks really good!   

I can't wait to see it in a few months time!!


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## chilled84

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*





whats the plants in the middle that looks like a fern, its real nice and i would like some of that. What is it?


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> whats the plants in the middle that looks like a fern, its real nice and i would like some of that. What is it?


Its the new tropica plant Hygrophila pinnatifida,got a couple of pots myself, great looking plant which lookes ever better when the leaves are fully grown.


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## sanj

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

I think the pinnatifida works well with the Jurassic image. The stone is fossilised wood isnt it.


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## glenn

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

what back ground are you going to be putting on it tony? (or are you leaving it bare) i think a frosted back ground would look awsome on this!


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> I think the pinnatifida works well with the Jurassic image. The stone is fossilised wood isnt it.



Thanks Paulo   Yep its pinnatifida and has the fern like look to it that I wanted for this setup.  ANd yes, its fossilised wood form TGM.



			
				glenn said:
			
		

> what back ground are you going to be putting on it tony? (or are you leaving it bare) i think a frosted back ground would look awsome on this!



Hi Glenn.  I've got a frosted background ready for it, but I'm going to try a black background first - I think it might look really nice with the plants and the shoal of fish that are going in.

Tony


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## andyh

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

Tonser!



Firstly, really love the sharpness and detail in this photo, if i didnt know what i was looking it it would be hard to put a scale on it.



Most importantly, how good does it look planted, I have to admit to being concerned for you when it came to the planting as you had done such and exceptional job with the hardscape. I really like your selection of plants, i hope you good at pruning though, as the Glosso and the Hydrocotyle will keep you busy!


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## hydrophyte

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day2*

I also wondered if the planting would be able to match the exceptional hardscape, but it looks like you nailed it.



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

>


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## chilled84

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> chilled84 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whats the plants in the middle that looks like a fern, its real nice and i would like some of that. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> Its the new tropica plant Hygrophila pinnatifida,got a couple of pots myself, great looking plant which lookes ever better when the leaves are fully grown.
Click to expand...




> Hygrophila pinnatifida


who stocks this?


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## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> who stocks this?


TGM stock it


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## Garuf

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

I think AE's do too, I understand Samc got his from pets at home.


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## samc

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I understand Samc got his from pets at home.



mine was from my LFS but i would say pets at home will stock it too  

hows this doing tony? i am interested in how the hydrocotyle will grow.


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## JohnC

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day4*

Looks amazing, loving the primitive idea. I've gone and ordered some Hygrophila pinnatifida now from TGM, cheers for drawing it to my attention. Looking forward to seeing how this grows out.

Best Regards,
John


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## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

A few new pics from last night...

















Please ignore the Hygrophila Difformis in the back right corner - its jsut there as a fast growing absorber for now  

As you see, I've fitted the black background now, and it looks fantastic! It gives the tank a far more dramatic presence in the room.  If I ever come to do any "final" shots I'll probably go back to a diffused backing so I can backlight the tank, but for now I'm loving this 

The Myriophyllum Mattogrossense has grown a couple of inches already, and the Myriophyllum Aquatica has grown too though not as quick - I think there is a shortage of light in the back corners which I'll be addressing today     There are also new shoots appearing on the glosso and the hydrocotyle though these are growing upwards right now so a prune in a few days and perhaps more light will be needed.

The tank backing allowed me to install the overflow system, and the RO/HMA reservoir and top up pump is done and working on a timer.  For now it pumps in 75L of fresh water every morning after the lights switch on (about 20% ) and the overflow lets the same amount run out.  I know this is not an exact water change as some of the fresh water will run away too but I'll see how it goes.  I might add a drain on a timer to one of the filter pipes and drain 20L away first, before adding the fresh.

Here's a couple of behind the scenes pics, as we all love to see the 'gubbins'


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## bigmatt

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

I hate you with a passion you can only dream of, you talented ******* of a ***** with a **** and ***** with bells on! 
Bet you've got either
 a)no kids
 b)very understanding other half 
 c)all of the above!

Really, really loving this - great how you've contextualised it as well by showing the original tank in it's setting - really helps.  
Cheers!
Matt


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

What i love is the simplicity of the tank, i.e you only see the finished product. The you enter the gubbins room at the back and you realise all the kit you have running this thing! 

Really good to see the back of house shots!

ANdy


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

Are you using standard garden hose flow stop connectors on some of your piping?! I think I've even more impressed by layout of the "gubbings" than I am of the scape! Which is amazing btw. Can't wait to see it progress. Have you thought about stocking? or did I miss it?


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

The hardscape king! looks pucker Tony.


----------



## sanj

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

Hi Tonser /Tony,

I love the automatic water change... very smart.

I have always prefered black background, but the opaque that has become popular isnt bad. However I really do prefer the black on this scape, sets it off very well.


----------



## AdAndrews

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

Looks amazing. How do you find maintenance on a tank like this, only being able to access it from behind? Becuase I really like the idea of a tank in a wall - so to speak.

Thanks
Adam


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

Thanks chaps 



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> Bet you've got either
> a)no kids
> b)very understanding other half
> c)all of the above!



Haha  

Meet Sara and Liberty-May - both very understanding 







			
				Bobtastic said:
			
		

> Are you using standard garden hose flow stop connectors on some of your piping? Have you thought about stocking? or did I miss it?



Hi Bob.  I use Hozelock sprinkler timers for the timed outlets to drain the water off. I put an eheim 'T' in the filter 'in' pipe and from this run through the Hozelock timer and to a drain.   Stocking is likely to be a large shoal of either neon yellow microrasbora kubotai or gelius barb 



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> The hardscape king!



Haha, dont know about that Mark, and its the plants that'll make or break it, so I might well be picking your 'pruning' brain   



			
				AdAndrews said:
			
		

> How do you find maintenance on a tank like this, only being able to access it from behind?



Its not too bad, there are doors that open up above the tank on the front which gives about 6inches of access so at least you can see what you are doing in the tank !  

Cheers

Tony


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

Wahhyyy, there they are.....

Now pal, you know these two lovely lady's are the only two people who count, and if they dont like it, then a man has to do what a man has to do.

The planting is brilliant Tony. 

From experience, the indian fern will get huge given even half a chance, so bear that in mind when letting it grow. It could look to dominant in the gap in the stones, only time will tell really.

Once the Hydrocotly fills in, it will looks stunning, I love this plant so much. And for all who have never grown it - You can hack at it, pull and poke at this plant and it still keeps growing, and, if nothing ells, it smells like parsley, which is nice.

Its still early days regarding care and maintenance of plants, but dont be scared to ket the scissors out next week Tony.

Cheers.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Now pal, you know these two lovely lady's are the only two people who count, and if they dont like it, then a man has to do what a man has to do.



You got it    They had me looking at a new house yesterday, and you know what that means   



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> From experience, the indian fern will get huge given even half a chance, so bear that in mind when letting it grow. It could look to dominant in the gap in the stones, only time will tell really.



I suspect this will be a problem, but they are just pushed into the crevices between the rocks so I can always move them more to the background, and introduce something new to the crevices - either mosses or bolbitis.



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Its still early days regarding care and maintenance of plants, but dont be scared to ket the scissors out next week Tony.



Yep I think that might be needed, as both the hydrocotyle and glosso are showing signs of vertical growth right now - see the pic below:





Its now a week old, so here is a new full tank shot, and the day 1 shot below for comparison   









Tony


----------



## Nelson

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

thats some great growth.
i'm lost for words,just find myself staring at your pics   .


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> as both the hydrocotyle and glosso are showing signs of vertical growth right now - see the pic below:



in my nano, which I thought was 'low light' hydracotle grew tight to the floor. In my big tank, which thought was 'high light' it's growing 6 inches tall. 

The hydra, will keep you busy when it starts to spread mate   

With the stems mate, you need to decide the 'final' height when the tank is at it's best. this determines the trimming heights. IMO, it's still too early to touch them.


----------



## bogwood

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

A very informative and helpful journal. Your pictures ... wow.
 Certainly something to aspire to.
The growth after one week is amazing, and your Rock layout, the most natural i have seen..


----------



## B7fec

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Hi Tony,

Gotta say that the rate of growth your getting there is brilliant! and the planting is every bit as good as the layout well done! 
What material is the black background and how have you stuck it so neatly to the back of the glass? 

Cheers Ben


----------



## hydrophyte

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6*

THis is just amazing. You selected perfect plants for this layout. 

This scene reminds me of mountains that I have seen in Arizona, USA and in Mexico.



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> A few new pics from last night...


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Thanks all   



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> The hydra, will keep you busy when it starts to spread mate
> 
> With the stems mate, you need to decide the 'final' height when the tank is at it's best. this determines the trimming heights. IMO, it's still too early to touch them.



Thanks Mark

The glossi is rocketing away, and my trimming fingers are getting itchy - it may well get the chop this weekend !  I reckon some of the parrot feather will be at the surface by then too     This is all very different to "Peacocks Crypt" which took months to get going !



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> What material is the black background and how have you stuck it so neatly to the back of the glass?


Hi Ben

The black film is from http://www.stickybackplastic.co.uk.  Its their gloss black film and I'd highly recommend it - delivery took about 5 days, and it is nice and thick and easy to work with (you apply it with a sprayer of fairy liquid and a squigee or credit card).  They do frosting films too 


Tony


----------



## Garuf

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Parrot feather, as in Myriophyllum aquaticum? I had it in a goldfish tank before I knew better and it used to break the surface within a couple of days! That was with no light, ferts or co2! 

The tanks beautiful, it's going to look amazing once done.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Hi Garuf

I've got 2 "parrot feathers" in there : Myriophyllum Aquaticum from 'planted tanks.co.uk' in the back left corner, and Myriophyllum Matogrossense from TGM to the back right of the hollow.  The matogrossense is a richer green colour, with a reddish stem, and is rocketing away and is almost at the surface now, looking really healthy.  The Aquaticum is a paler hue of green, but its also really struggling and is melting in the lower stems.  I think thats due to lack of light in the back corners though as I only had pair of 4ft 39w tubes across the back of the tank.  I replaced these with a 5ft luminaire last night so hopefully that should get them recovering.

Tony


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Looking great, Tony! 



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> The Aquaticum is a paler hue of green, but its also really struggling and is melting in the lower stems.



I suspect your Myriophyllum aquaticum was supplied in its already submerged form (I may be wrong).  If this is the case then it will have a lot harder time adapting to your water, which may explain it 'melting'.  Plants grown emerged i.e. around 90% of the species available in the hobby, adapt much easier.  M. aquaticum is also an invasive species in the UK so please be careful when/if disposing of it.


----------



## John Starkey

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Quality Tony,plants growth is looking very good,it will interesting to see how tall the hydrocotyle actually grows,great photo,s too,my wife loved the the family shot,
regards,
john.


----------



## rawr

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Wow, that is quality! It's definately one of the best hardscaping I've seen in a while. One thing that I did notice was the substrate level and ow it's slightly uneven at the front. I think any aquascape looks much better when the substrate level is even at the front, preferably quite low. I've never seen the Gelius Barb before, looks like a nice fish and I think it'll go with the feel of the aquascape really well, keep us posted on how everything goes this is one to watch for sure.


----------



## flygja

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Love the scape and love the attention to detail in the "gubbins"!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I suspect your Myriophyllum aquaticum was supplied in its already submerged form (I may be wrong). If this is the case then it will have a lot harder time adapting to your water, which may explain it 'melting'. Plants grown emerged i.e. around 90% of the species available in the hobby, adapt much easier. M. aquaticum is also an invasive species in the UK so please be careful when/if disposing of it.



Thanks for that George, it all rotted at its lower levels, but the new adapted growth was good, so I've removed it all and replanted the new growth in its place.  I must commend http://www.plantedtanks.co.uk as they have a warning regarding the M. aquaticum on their website: "DO NOT DISCARD INTO WATERWAYS. This plant is a noxious weed where it has been introduced."



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Quality Tony,plants growth is looking very good,it will interesting to see how tall the hydrocotyle actually grows,great photo,s too,my wife loved the the family shot



Thanks John.  I'm going to keep the hydrocotyle low within the hollow, but am hoping it grows quite tall on the left hand side so it forms a nice front to back transition - careful pruning required I think   



			
				rawr said:
			
		

> One thing that I did notice was the substrate level and how it's slightly uneven at the front. I think any aquascape looks much better when the substrate level is even at the front, preferably quite low.



Thanks Thomas   I agree with you on the straight front edge principal in most cases, but in this tank it is set into the wall, with an oak frame on the front of it ( see pic in first post ) so the frame gives you the neat straight lower edge.



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> Love the scape and love the attention to detail in the "gubbins"!



Thanks flygja 

So we have reached Day 12 and theres going to be some trimming done   The glosso is doing really well, and is 3 inches tall in places so I'm going to take the shears across it today - same for the hydrocotyle.  Planting this stuff stem by stem too a long time, but its definitely worth the effort 






The Myriophyllum Matogrossense has hit the surface now, so that will be trimmed back too, and I'll start replanting the shoots to the left of it behind the main hollow.  As mentioned above the Myriophyllum Aquaticum struggled to adapt at first, but the new growth is good and its playing catch up to its cousin 





The Ceratopteris Siliquosa has adapted very well too, creating lots of new plantlets.  I think Graeme may well be right and this may just get too big and may break up the look of 'the hollow' too much.  I'll try to keep on top of it and control its size.





The Echinodorus Vesuvius is also growing at a hell of a rate, with many new plantlets appearing, some as far as 20cm away from the main plant.  I'm going to keep it in there for now but am undecided as to whether it'll remain long term.  The Tonina is adapting, but more slowly than the rest - it is at risk of being swallowed up by the fast growers so I may move it forward a bit.





And the full tank at 10 days (ignore the Hygrophila Difformis in the back right corner, its been there as a fast growing absorber and will be coming out today).  I think the colours of the plants in the centre are all too similar and they all merge into one mass of almost the same green - I'm going to have a look at that today and see if I can define things a bit better.  I'm realising now how many fast growers I've got in there, and the trimming regime is going to have to be pretty strict to keep things in shape    Today is "First Trim" day  - pics later on 




and the Day 1 pic for comparison - aren't plants amazing  :


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Seeeerrrrrrrrwish.

Looks great Tony. 

That Myriophyllum has gone bonkers. Great for start up plant though. 

Hows the glosso? Is it hugging the substrate yet?


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Hows the glosso? Is it hugging the substrate yet?



Not yet - growing upwards right now so it'll be trimmed back today and I'm going to add an hour to the photo period on the front T5's 

Tony


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Great growth, Tony!

Shame the glosso isn't staying lower; planting it individually like you have done normally gives it the best possible chance. If pruning it and increasing the photoperiod doesn't work then you may need to increase intensity.  It may be my monitor but it also looks a bit yellow, especially in comparison to the other plants.  Glosso should be a nice vivid green when it's healthy.  What are you dosing?

The black background looks very good too.  Much better for hiding the powerheads!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Shame the glosso isn't staying lower; planting it individually like you have done normally gives it the best possible chance. If pruning it and increasing the photoperiod doesn't work then you may need to increase intensity.  It may be my monitor but it also looks a bit yellow, especially in comparison to the other plants.  Glosso should be a nice vivid green when it's healthy.  What are you dosing?!



Hi George

You're right about the glosso being a bit on the yellow side, and since trimming it back to 1 inch the other night it is more so (that said there is some brown diatoms in there now which is making everything look a bit yellow  :silent: ) It is also growing back more vertically than horizontally.  I'll post some new pics tomorrow, but in the meantime here is the regime as it stands today:

*Lighting:*
Front pair of 54w T5's: 10:00 > 15:30
Mid pair of 54w T5's: 12:00 > 14:00
Back pair of 54w T5's: 11:00 > 14:30

*Water Change:*  20% top up of RO/HMA blend twice daily, with overflow going to waste.

*Dosing:*
Micros:
0.1g Trace - Dosed on Mon, Wed and Fri

Macros:
20g KNO3
2g KH2PO4
7g K2SO4
22g MgSO4

Dosed on Sun, Tues and Thurs

Flourish Excel:
20ml per day

Any suggestions to get the glosso greener and carpeting more would be more than welcome 

Tony


----------



## Krishs Bettas

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*

Try adding more KN03 I heared an seval threads that i makes carpeting plant greener.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 1week*



			
				Krish's Bettas said:
			
		

> Try adding more KN03 I heared an seval threads that i makes carpeting plant greener.



Thanks Krish 

Here are pics from last night - a couple of days after trimming the glosso, hydrocotyle and the myriophyllum's...














Here you can see some of the diatoms in amongst the glosso.  This is only in 2 places in the tank, both in high flow areas in the line of the koralias.  I've moved some of the otos' in from my other tank, and they are taking care of it 





This is the glosso at the back right corner - looking leggy and yellow


----------



## TDI-line

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Looking great Tonser.  

When are the fish going in?


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Hey Dan

Hows tricks ?  There are 8 otos in there now to clean up the diatoms, amanos will be added at the weekend,  and a large shoal of gelius barbs on order, but it'll be a few weeks before they're all in 

Tony


----------



## James Marshall

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

That's excellent Tony.
The scape has unique textural qualities and a very original look  .

Cheers,
James


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Thanks very much James   

I've just been reviewing my dosing regime, and have realised that although my macros are all well above the recommended dosing ( to compensate for the 25% daily water change) my micro dosing is at about an eighth of what is recommended so that is the first thing I need to address   

Tony


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Update!


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Update!


----------



## zoon

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

I have been searching through all the photos of peoples tanks on this site for inspiration and have to say this is one fo the most impressive - the hardscape is jaw dropping


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Hope things are going well with everything, Tony.

If you find time we'd love to see an update, assuming all is well.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Sorry for the lack of updates folks - life has been hectic, with our baby daughter having a kidney op, and a house move on the horizon too.  Sadly this scape was neglected in the build up to Liberty's op, so the plants got leggy and algae took over a bit   

Once the operation was out of the way, we had found a house we liked and agreed the sale on ours, so I didnt really tackle the tank as it would all be ripped out in a few weeks time.  Unfortunately that house has fallen through, so we are now back to looking again so we could be here some time.

So....I'm going to attempt to get this back on track, as I think the hardscape deserves it.  The Siliquosa and the parrot feather have gone rampant and somewhat taken over everything so I'll be stripping them right back to find out waht lurks beneath.  The glosso has struggled due to the shadowing of the forementioned plants, but has taken in some places.  I'd also made the mistake of adding the Cory Sterbia back in to the tank, but they just stir up the Aquasoil on a daily basis, so they may have to come back out.

No pics yet, as its just too embarrassing but once I get it going again I'll update things.

Thanks for your patience.

Tony


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" @ 2.5 weeks*

Good to hear that Liberty is recovering. What a hectic time it is indeed! Well if you ever need a hand pruning give me a shout 

Im only 30 mins away hehe


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Well, I think I'm getting this back on track, though its going through a 'temporary' phase right now.

I still think the start of all this was trimming the glosso back when it was growing vertically, as the remaining stalks died and the BBA took to them first.  My other mistake was adding the Corys, as they stirred up the aquasoil on a daily basis which left a dusty covering over everything reducing the leaves ability to collect light, and blocked the filters reducing flow dramatically. A massive lack of time, led to little or no maintenance, which led to more time being needed, but none being available !  The algae had reached epic proportions, particualrly the BBA - on seeing the photo below, andyh thought I'd sent a pic of an ewok    

I got stuck in there with a ruthless pair of scissors and trimmed the hell out of everything that had BBA on it, and ran the shears across all the rocks before dosing them directly with Excel for the last 7 days.  I also added a shoal of Siamese Algae Eaters who have done a miraculous job of chewing through the BBA - they must've thought Christmas had come early !!!

Unfortunately pretty much all of the plants had died, gutting considering the outlay in time and money I spent planting it all out.  There are still hyrdrocotyle roots in the substrate so I guess they may come back with the new regime, but for now I've planted it all out with plants form my other tanks, and a few from the local MAq, really just to get it all going back on track again.  Once that happens I may start adding and removing plants with ones I really want in there ( as per the original planting) but for now I just want to get it the lights/ferts/CO2 balance right and get it looking healthy.

A few pics below, including the one of the "ewoks" who have now been banished   

Warts and all, as ever   

Tony

Dont laugh too hard  





And the same rock now...





And another rock, where you can see the magenta "Exceled" BBA dieing back...





And a few of the inhabitants...













And the full tank shots...


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Looks great Tony. Shame I didnt manage to catch you at the gallery. 
Tank has certainly come along. It must look fantastic in the flesh!


----------



## Mark Webb

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Love it. The rock formation is superb


----------



## bogwood

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

As a fellow BBA sufferer, glad to see you are winning the battle.
Some of those clumps were frightening.
Your set up looks very natural.
Cheers


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Good luck with it Tony. Its such a hard work to fight the algae in such a big tank...


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

You killed the ewoks!!!! bad bad man!! 

Glad you getting this back on track Tony, I am sure this will start looking stunning in no time, as the hardscape is spot on!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Looks great Tony. Shame I didnt manage to catch you at the gallery.
> Tank has certainly come along. It must look fantastic in the flesh!



Hi Rik, yep it was a shame I couldnt get to the Thursday night   Tank is doing OK, pop pin if your down this way 



			
				Mark Webb said:
			
		

> Love it. The rock formation is superb


Thanks Mark



			
				bogwood said:
			
		

> As a fellow BBA sufferer, glad to see you are winning the battle. Some of those clumps were frightening





			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Good luck with it Tony. Its such a hard work to fight the algae in such a big tank...


Yep, its been a bit of a battle but to be honest, with good maintenance and a crew of SAE's it was under control 



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> You killed the ewoks!!!! bad bad man!!


They had no place under water Paulo   

All good so far with the new start, first trim of the stems last night, and replanted the cuttings to thicken things up.  I also started to drag the malaya back into place that the corys had shovelled all over the place !  A few more goes at this should see the sand come back into play which I'll then top up with fresh stuff too.

Prepping the tanks tonight for being left alone for a week as I'm going away.  I figure a big water change, and a bit of extra dosing in the morning, coupled with a 50% reduction in the photoperiod and the CO2 should be OK for 6 days.

Tony


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

 (sorry!) Gotta love excel though.

Sam


----------



## Aeropars

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

I am in need of SAE's but cant find them anywherein Leicester. I had the exact same problem as you with BBa but cant find a way of killing it off. I cant really use excel due to how much I have!


----------



## a1Matt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

SAE's are the most effective BBA eaters I have found, but I have also found other species capable of eating it.
These are mini ramshorns, nerites, and caridina gracilirostris (red nose shrimp).
All the above animals will eat live BBA.
Excel does speeds up the process considerably though.
and once excel has nuked it, then other critters (eg otos) will eat the remains of it.

HTH 


@Tony - do you ever consider going low tech? (I am thinking of the ease of maintenance.)


----------



## RudeDogg1

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

god mines gonna look so poo against ones like this :0( lol


----------



## CeeJay

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Hi Tony 

Glad to see you're getting it back on track.
That rockwork layout just looks ace


----------



## Kevina

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L*

Hi Tony, I know this doesn't strictly apply to this tank, but I have a Discus tank 350l and was wondering where you purchased your Discus for the precious tank setup as they were awsome colourations an quality? I'd really like to know.
Cheers Kev.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Hi Kevin

Sorry I missed your post    The discus were from Mark Evendon at http://www.devotedly-discus.co.uk/

Brief update...

This tank is now basically algae free    and looking pretty good if I say so myself, with Blyxa, Pinnatifida and various crypts doing really well     I'll upload full pics soon, I'm just clearing a white bloom from the water caused ( I think ) by cleaning both filters last weekend   Hopefully the UV I've added will help.

The local MA got a few Zebra Otos in, and I couldnt resist them !  They're far more confident than the standard oto's that were already in the tank, so you see alot more of them around the front of the tank 

Tony


----------



## a1Matt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

I saw some of these for the first time in an LFS recently.  Stunning fish.  Are yours also slightly larger than the normal Otos you see?


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

great pics Tony. There are a lot more variants coming into the Oto market at the minute isn't there. There are some 'black' oto's available now, they look pretty cool. Are these Zebras more hardier than there counterparts?


----------



## Radik

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Nice Ottos Tony I am after those a well. But where I could get them? Would MA do shipping? How much per fish?  I was reading zebras are more sensitive so are they selling them established already?

Ianho, and where you have seen black Ottos?

I am ottolover even my girflriend saying they have cute eyes when watching you.


----------



## a1Matt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

I saw them in a shop inside chatuchak market in Bangkok.


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> Are yours also slightly larger than the normal Otos



Hi Matt, yes they're slightly larger, but only by a few mm



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> great pics Tony. There are a lot more variants coming into the Oto market at the minute isn't there. There are some 'black' oto's available now, they look pretty cool. Are these Zebras more hardier than there counterparts?



Thanks Ian. I'm not sure if they are more hardy, but they're definitely more confident than the others.  Maybe they're just that bigger that the scalare dont scare them !  The others have come out to play more that the Zebras are there 



			
				Radik said:
			
		

> Nice Ottos Tony I am after those a well. But where I could get them? Would MA do shipping? How much per fish?


Hi Radik.  The store held the otos for 2 weeks in their tanks before selling them.  They had about 8 left in stock last weekend at the Weybridge store so only half an hour from London Waterloo, and alot closer than Bangkok     They dont do mail order.


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Zebra ottos are indeed lovely fish. I didnt know much about various ottos before but somehow I have managed to get 3 black ottos. 

However the bad point with the ottos is that they have developed a taste for slime coat on my discus so therefore I have to remove them from my 180l tank and now reside in 2 other tanks


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

I got some black ottos, that are now very fat..  

Will for sure travel to Weybridge or Morden to look for the Zebra Ottos, 4 of 5 of them would be great to have on my tank. 

Great looking fish.


----------



## Tom

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

I had a Zebra Oto by accident when I bought a group of them a couple of years ago. It was the only one of the group that didn't survive acclimatisation unfortunately. Great looking fish.


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*



> Ianho, and where you have seen black Ottos?



They had some in MA in Lincoln. Quite reasonable as well @ 3 for £12, i think they were.

ps, just caught up with this thread Tony, that kitchen diner is absolutely superb with the inset tank. Even my wife likes the look of the tank and the way it all works together. Great read as well. Thanks.


----------



## FishBeast

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

I am sorry to hear about your daughter. Its great to see your tank getting back on track. It would be great to see this tank become a great success story!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> [ps, just caught up with this thread Tony, that kitchen diner is absolutely superb with the inset tank. Even my wife likes the look of the tank and the way it all works together. Great read as well. Thanks.



My pleasure, thanks Ian 



			
				FishBeast said:
			
		

> I am sorry to hear about your daughter. Its great to see your tank getting back on track. It would be great to see this tank become a great success story!


Thanks FishBeast, Liberty is doing great now 

I think the tank is becoming a gradually heading towards a success now...


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Im waiting for the invite to come over so I can see this in the flesh! 



Looks great after the clean up


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - algae free !*



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Im waiting for the invite to come over so I can see this in the flesh!
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great after the clean up



Sorry I missed this Rik - you're welcome whenever mate - just bring your detailing kit too lol


The hygrophila pinnatifida is rampant in here, and is rooting itself to the rocks wherever possible, creating small plantlets.  There are large java ferns across the back of the tank, along with some cryptocryne balansae too.

I swapped the lighting form T5 to TMC LED's a few months back and have a far more stable tank now, requiring less maintenance than it used too.

The main issue I've had with regard updating the journal has been a really annoying cloudiness in the tank that I just cant get rid of.  Its just a bit milky, but with the LEDs it shows up really badly on pictures. I've tried adding a UV, adding co-agulants, changing filter media, rearranging the flow around the tank, stopping dosing trace, stopping dosing all ferts, different CO2 diffusers and countless other things but to no long term avail.  I got this pic last week after adding new filter pads, where I gained nearly 24hrs of relatively clear water - I'd just replanted the blyxa though.

Tony


----------



## russchilds

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Looks fantastic!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Looks very nice, Tony.

Shame about the 'milky' water.  Could it be something digging in the substrate?  Is that Aqua Soil Malaya?


----------



## chump54

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Hi Tony, 

that's looking fantastic! it's got so much going on. brill

I had an issue with cloudy water a while back, it gradually turned into green water algae, but it was never green always a white milky colour. I sorted it with UV, which you've tried so I guess thats not the case. but mine did look exactly the same in photos.

Chris


----------



## Stu Worrall

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

very nice tony, looking very grown in now   Re the cloudyness as george mentioned it wasnt that bad batch of AS was it that was reported on the ADA site?


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*



			
				russchilds said:
			
		

> Looks fantastic!





			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Looks very nice, Tony.  Shame about the 'milky' water.  Could it be something digging in the substrate?  Is that Aqua Soil Malaya?



Thanks Russ and George.  Yes its Malaya, and there are four corys in there which dig a bit.



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> Hi Tony, that's looking fantastic! it's got so much going on. brill
> 
> I had an issue with cloudy water a while back, it gradually turned into green water algae, but it was never green always a white milky colour. I sorted it with UV, which you've tried so I guess thats not the case. but mine did look exactly the same in photos.  Chris



Thanks Chris, yep I tried UV but no good.



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> very nice tony, looking very grown in now   Re the cloudyness as george mentioned it wasnt that bad batch of AS was it that was reported on the ADA site?



Thanks Stu.  I hadnt read about the bad Malaya batch - do you have a link ?  The scape was a year old on Tuesday, but the Malaya has broken down far more than it did in my 2 yr old 200L scape - and that had several corys in it too.
 If the timings match up then the "bad batch" theory would make sense - its more of a fine particles cloudiness than a bacterial bloom, plus the filter pads are always brown after a week.

Unfortunately if it is the substrate, then i guess theres not a lot I can do about it, apart from rescape   

Another pic...




Tony


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Looking good good. Cant believe its one year old already. Seems like just recently i have been looking at hardscape.
Ehh, time goes fast.
Love the Angels.


----------



## Stu Worrall

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*



			
				Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> Thanks Stu.  I hadnt read about the bad Malaya batch - do you have a link ?  The scape was a year old on Tuesday, but the Malaya has broken down far more than it did in my 2 yr old 200L scape - and that had several corys in it too.
> If the timings match up then the "bad batch" theory would make sense - its more of a fine particles cloudiness than a bacterial bloom, plus the filter pads are always brown after a week.
> 
> Unfortunately if it is the substrate, then i guess theres not a lot I can do about it, apart from rescape
> 
> Tony


Dont take that as read, i may have just been getting ahead of myself from posts ive read on here as I cant find any links externally.  I may have been getting mixed up with amazonia II about the bad batch as I know theyve now improved the "recipe" - http://www.adana.co.jp/en/sc/news/detail/35

i did find some here but you posted the first one about cloudyness!

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14478&p=151135&hilit=cloudy+malaya#p151135

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14866&p=162071&hilit=cloudy+malaya#p162071


----------



## B7fec

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Zebra otos*

Hi Tony,  what a cracker mate, Really liking the mix of greens from the dark crypts through to the lighter colours, nice sense of depth and a nice fish selection too! The year has flown by! Hard to believe it's gone past so fast! Shame about the cloudy water, very bizarre, but I wouldn't let it get you down, when you've produced a stunning scape like this!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

So the tank has moved on somewhat since the last update.  Plants have continued to do well, with Marsilea hirsute, Cyperus Helferi and lots of Juncus Repens added.  The cloudy water issue has gone away - though unfortunately I can't really put my finger on a specific reason as to why !

The angels have gone, as have most of the black neons, and a shoal of wild columbian altums have been added this morning, from David Lai aquatics.  These were from his second imported batch from this year, and he's quarantined them for the past 8 weeks, with no problems.

They are settling in fine so far, and have been feeding this afternoon quite happily.  A quick phone pic of them below, but once they're settled fully I'll take some proper pics.

Tony


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Nice one Tony, one of my favourite fish  what about a full tank shot


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Now they are cool!

Look forward to more updates!


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Fantastic quality. Good that you got them. We chatted about it at Aquatics Live. Look forward catching up with you and actually checking our your tanks soon.


----------



## mzm

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Hi Tony beautifully angels! Are you sure they are Columbians cos they really are similar to the proper Altums! I have been trying to get real Altums inMalta for the past six months now but no one see,s to be willing to get some for me. Local LFS's claim they can't find any..... Probably cos they mainly import from Taiwan and Singapore where Altums are not found 

Great tank. Post some more pics of those angels when you get the time.

Regards,
Michael


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*



			
				mzm said:
			
		

> Hi Tony beautifully angels! Are you sure they are Columbians cos they really are similar to the proper Altums!



Hi Michael, they are proper Altums, from Columbia !  They are native to Southern Columbia and SouthEast Venezuala.



			
				mzm said:
			
		

> Great tank. Post some more pics of those angels when you get the time.



Will do 

Tony


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

FTS, FTS


----------



## James Marshall

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> FTS, FTS


I second the motion


----------



## cheebs

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Thirded!


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> FTS, FTS



You see what you started Edi   

Here you go, a full tank shot, looking a bit over grown right now, as the tank has become a bit of a repository for various plants, rather than a scape as such !  There is loads of vallis nana, crypt balansae and cypress helferi planted across the back now, to get some tall vertical growth for the altums, so once that takes off I'll start thinning out the other stuff.  I might pull the Marsilea Hirsuta carpet up too, to get back to a gravel foreground - its gone nuts and spreads daily !






And a few more snaps of the altums too   

















Tony


----------



## ghostsword

*Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Wow, that tank looks so well scaped, and the fish are superb! 

They look at home on the tank, really suit the scape! 


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Yeeeeee...
Fish are amazing, the owner got into collectoritis mode   
I am sure you will sort it out properly later.
I got some fancy food for your altums called BTO, want some?


----------



## Ady34

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Wow, that tank looks so well scaped, and the fish are superb!
> 
> They look at home on the tank, really suit the scape!



Hi tony, ill second the comments made from ghostword.
Its great to see these fish in a suitably sized environment. This tank has gone through some transition, but as it stands looks awesome. It is almost a shame though that so much of that exceptional hardscape is now hidden, although it is noted that once the tall stuff has got going youll be thinning the rest and maybe this will reveal it again! The crypt balansae will compliment both fish and scape beautifully.
Im pleased to see a scape with longevity and to be able to follow its progression. I feel now with the altums and the additional plants this tank has found its harmony and will give you another year (or 2 or 3) of pleasure.
Ill look forward to updates and to see those angels grow. The bolivian rams are a nice touch too giving subtle interest in the lower regions of this deep tank.
Cheerio.
Ady.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - 1yr old !*

Pictures are amazing. Cant even pick out the favourite one. Probably second from the bottom.


----------



## mlgt

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Ive seen these in singapore and photos dont do these fish justice. Great choice Tony. We now want a HD video


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Ive seen these in singapore and photos dont do these fish justice. Great choice Tony. We now want a HD video



Hd hd hd hd hd jd hd hd hd video!

Come on tony!


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

+1


----------



## cheebs

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Thirded!! 

Flippin' heck Tony, stunning pictures, stunning altums too.


----------



## andyh

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Oh and forgot to say the pictures are stunning! The clarity in a few of them is incredible! 

Keep up the good work!

P.s did you get the glassware home safely?


----------



## gillo45

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Amazing ! Simple


----------



## James Marshall

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Absolutely stunning Tony  
The scape has evolved beautifully.

Cheers,
James


----------



## Gill

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Oh Wow, the Altums look right at home in the scape.


----------



## sanj

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Lovely "Angels playground".


----------



## Alastair

*Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Gorgeous 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## awtong

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Absolutely Love this tank.

Very jelous of those Angels too!  They are on my list of fish to own one day!



Andy


----------



## leonroy

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Ridiculously wow, seriously well done!

Gonna need an HD video of this for sure


----------



## justjason88

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

lovely tank and your fish look great


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Thanks for all the nice comments - much appreciated 

I'm going to be pulling a load of the crypt wendtii brown and green up this week, and doing a replant of quite a bit of it to get it back towards how I now envisage it !

I've shot a couple of quick vids, and will edit something together over the Christmas break, in the man time here is one of the clips, but it doesn't give too much away I'm afraid   




Tony


----------



## Alastair

*Re: Tonys 'Triassic Hollow' 420L - Altums in residence*

Lovely mate. I love this tank. Doesn't look as if There's water in that tank ha ha


----------



## greenink

seriously gorgeous. but at least i now know what it takes to mount a tank properly in the wall!


----------



## Tony Swinney

Alastair said:
			
		

> Lovely mate. I love this tank. Doesn't look as if There's water in that tank ha ha



Haha, theres plenty in there, and a pair of eheims to keep it sparkly 



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> seriously gorgeous. but at least i now know what it takes to mount a tank properly in the wall!



Its a bit of a number Mike, but well worth it.  We had builders in, so they did it for me in a few hours, with a steel across the top.  If I was to do it again I'd leave a bigger opening in the wall above the tank, as access is pretty restricted as it is ( or change to a shallower tank   )

For the first time, all 8 albums have come out to take food from my hand this morning, so I reckon they're fully settled in.  Whereas the SAE's ruled the tank before, the Altums do so now !

Tony


----------



## greenink

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> If I was to do it again I'd leave a bigger opening in the wall above the tank, as access is pretty restricted as it is ( or change to a shallower tank   )



Could not agree more - that's the biggest mistake I made. Think you need at least 30cm (ideally 50) otherwise you just can't get in properly.


----------



## mrjackdempsey

Apsolutely stunning tank and heavenly Altums, makes me want to pull my tank apart and try again. Must inspire you each morning having breakfast, set you up for a positive day. The reason I read your post was to see your Altums  (which are certainly stunning) but it is your tank that I remember! Great to read from someone honestly about the problems encountered and how they were overcome
    Dave


----------



## fandango

I really enjoyed reading trough this thread, looking at the pictures and the video. Beautiful tank and fish. 
regards,
fandango


----------



## Tony Swinney

Thanks Dave and Fandango - they certainly do get the day off to a good start, though its the evening when the tank looks its best 

Heres a few update pics from last night.  The albums are doing great, feeding from my hand 3 times a day. The tank had a big foreground trim, after the pics last night, as the Staurogyne was getting quite deep, and holding an awful lot of detritus.  The Juncus Repens absolutely loves this tank, and is growing beautifully, I trimmed that a bit too an replanted the cuttings on the back right of the tank.

I'm really enjoying this tank now, as it has found it balance, with no algae issues, happy fish and healthy plants 

Tony


----------



## mlgt

That is a lush tank Tony. I will self invite myself round soon to see the tank myself


----------



## awtong

Every time I see this tank and fish they look even better than the last time.

The plants look lush, and the colours are really starting to come out in those Altum's now.

 Andy


----------



## mrjackdempsey

I have to apologise or at least I would if you could hear me, seen the third picture and went '' Holy £***'', it is absolutely gob smacking. Just be glad I live in Eire otherwise I would be trying to cage a invite ( I'm a bit bad that way I'm afraid   ) If Carlsberg did planted tanks, this is it in the flesh   As a side note did you have any problems with your Altums, some one told me if you can keep them alive for the first three weeks then they should be over the worse. Hearing that is why I went for the Leopoldi. Whatever else that is one seriously good looking tank, a tank to inspire too
    Dave


----------



## Tony Swinney

mlgt said:
			
		

> That is a lush tank Tony. I will self invite myself round soon to see the tank myself



Thanks Rik, come on over - I've an FE waiting for you 



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Every time I see this tank and fish they look even better than the last time.
> The plants look lush, and the colours are really starting to come out in those Altum's now.
> Andy



Hi Andy, and thanks for that.  Yep the altums are doing great now, thoroughly settled.  I need to catch the remaining 6 black neons and move them to the 200l, but its no easy task with so many places to hide !  I've watched the albums showing interest in them so think I should move them out !



			
				mrjackdempsey said:
			
		

> I have to apologise or at least I would if you could hear me, seen the third picture and went '' Holy £***'', it is absolutely gob smacking. Just be glad I live in Eire otherwise I would be trying to cage a invite ( I'm a bit bad that way I'm afraid   ) If Carlsberg did planted tanks, this is it in the flesh   As a side note did you have any problems with your Altums, some one told me if you can keep them alive for the first three weeks then they should be over the worse. Hearing that is why I went for the Leopoldi. Whatever else that is one seriously good looking tank, a tank to inspire too
> Dave


Thanks a lot Dave.  The altums have been no trouble at all - I bought very good stock from David Lai, and he had held them for a couple of months before I got them, so they had gotten over their travels, and were adjusting to "tank" life.  That said I keep the TDS down below 30ppm in the tank.  I had a near-incident yesterday when a CO2 bottle dumped a load of gas in to the tank as it finished.  The black neons and the bolivian rams were struggling, but the altums were fine, if a little subdued.  A big RO water change sorted things out 

Tony


----------



## Mark Evans

This is looking incredible Tony.


----------



## ghostsword

Tony, it looks superb!!  amazing layout, and the plants and fish look so amazing.  


___________________________


----------



## Callum

It's looking really amazing, wonderful, healthy plants.


----------



## Tony Swinney

Thanks guys.  I've just been sitting studying the tank, and have a plan to reveal more of the hardscape again - its all a bit hidden with the present growth !  Plus the tank doesn't have much depth to it visually, and it should with its dimensions.  Might change the background too 

I can't get into a full reshape of this at the minute, but theres going to be some serious trimming done, and a bit of replanting too 

Tony


----------



## Ady34

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> I can't get into a full reshape of this at the minute, but theres going to be some serious trimming done, and a bit of replanting too



a change is as good as a holiday! 
Seeing more of that hard scape wont be a bad thing, it was very impressive and worth showing off a bit more.
Ady.


----------



## Steve Smith

Stunning Tony!  Lovely


----------



## Antipofish

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> ....  That said I keep the TDS down below 30ppm in the tank.  I had a near-incident yesterday when a CO2 bottle dumped a load of gas in to the tank as it finished.  The black neons and the bolivian rams were struggling, but the altums were fine, if a little subdued.  A big RO water change sorted things out
> 
> Tony



Tony, how do you achieve this ?  Mine is about 500   (after a 50% water change)


----------



## mzm

Good morning Tony. Stunning tank and stunning Altums! You have done a great job!

Would you mind telling me how many grobeams you are using over this tank, how high above the tank they hang and the duration they ar on for?

I have two grobeams and one Aquabeam 1000ND (not sure if that is right, it's a marine tile from TMC), suspended approx. 14inches above the water. They are on for 5hrs a day. Tank is a 350l Juwel Trigon. Results are not half as good as yours.

Apologies if I somewhat hijacked your thread but I am really impressed with what you have done with this tank.

Regards,
Michael


----------



## Tony Swinney

Ady34 said:
			
		

> a change is as good as a holiday!
> Seeing more of that hard scape wont be a bad thing, it was very impressive and worth showing off a bit more.
> Ady.



Yep you're right Ady, its going to be done 



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Stunning Tony!  Lovely



Thanks a lot Steve, and great to see you back on the forum again 




			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Tony Swinney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....  That said I keep the TDS down below 30ppm in the tank. Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony, how do you achieve this ?  Mine is about 500   (after a 50% water change)
Click to expand...


I use pure RO water, and auto-top-up with 70litres of it twice a day, so its more or less a continuous feed of fresh water, which expels the same amount through the overflow as it fills.



			
				mzm said:
			
		

> Good morning Tony. Stunning tank and stunning Altums! You have done a great job!
> 
> Would you mind telling me how many grobeams you are using over this tank, how high above the tank they hang and the duration they ar on for?
> 
> I have two grobeams and one Aquabeam 1000ND (not sure if that is right, it's a marine tile from TMC), suspended approx. 14inches above the water. They are on for 5hrs a day. Tank is a 350l Juwel Trigon. Results are not half as good as yours.
> 
> Apologies if I somewhat hijacked your thread but I am really impressed with what you have done with this tank.
> 
> Regards,
> Michael



Hi Michael, and thanks for the compliments   Do bear in mind that the plants in there are not particularly light demanding, but they are indeed doing well, particularly the Juncus Repens, and the Staurogyne ( though since trimming the Stauro is being a little slower to recover. I've got 5 pots of HC 'resting' in the tank at the minute and it's growing well !

I feel the LEDs just give you so much more control over everything - set them up at only 75% power and the growth will be slow and controllable, or crank it up to 100% to speed things up a bit.  I also love the fact you can have them on at only 5% power so from first thing in the morning to last thing at night there is light on in the tank, enough to see whats going on in there, which you can't do with MH's or T5's as you can't minimise the output.

I've got 8 TMC Grobeam 1000 tiles above the tank, set in two banks of four and I've got one TMC controller for each bank.  The lights are only about 6 inches above the water surface, primarily because the tank is set into the wall and thats all the height I have.  They are all on a rig so they cab be slid out in front or behind the tank for maintenance.

The graph below shows the timing of the lights, and as you can see there is only a 4 hour period when all the lights are on full power ...






Hope that helps

Tony


----------



## Antipofish

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Swinney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....  That said I keep the TDS down below 30ppm in the tank. Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony, how do you achieve this ?  Mine is about 500   (after a 50% water change)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I use pure RO water, and auto-top-up with 70litres of it twice a day, so its more or less a continuous feed of fresh water, which expels the same amount through the overflow as it fills.
Click to expand...


OK, sounds interesting.  At the risk of sounding stupid, where does the water feed in ? From the top or bottom, and I assume you have an overflow hole or something in the tank ? How do you ensure the water going in is not the same water that leaves the tank, is what I am getting at ?  70L a day, so thats a 17% water change daily ?  That is manageable for me with 175L, I could do 30L a day I guess.  Do you warm your water for this or at that percentage does it not matter ?

(Sorry to ask so many questions, but its all a bit new.  Im keen to learn as quickly as possible, even at the risk of running before I can walk, LOL)


----------



## Tony Swinney

Antipofish said:
			
		

> OK, sounds interesting.  At the risk of sounding stupid, where does the water feed in ? From the top or bottom, and I assume you have an overflow hole or something in the tank ? How do you ensure the water going in is not the same water that leaves the tank, is what I am getting at ?  70L a day, so thats a 17% water change daily ?  That is manageable for me with 175L, I could do 30L a day I guess.  Do you warm your water for this or at that percentage does it not matter ?
> 
> (Sorry to ask so many questions, but its all a bit new.  Im keen to learn as quickly as possible, even at the risk of running before I can walk, LOL)



The overflow is in the back top right of the tank, and the RO is pumped in to the front bottom left, i.e. as far away from the overflow as possible. It takes 5 mins for the 70L to pump in, so undoubtedly as the water mixes in the tank, a percentage of the fresh water goes down the drain, but the system works well for me.  It pumps 70L twice a day, so its nearer a 35% change daily 

Tony


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## Antipofish

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, sounds interesting.  At the risk of sounding stupid, where does the water feed in ? From the top or bottom, and I assume you have an overflow hole or something in the tank ? How do you ensure the water going in is not the same water that leaves the tank, is what I am getting at ?  70L a day, so thats a 17% water change daily ?  That is manageable for me with 175L, I could do 30L a day I guess.  Do you warm your water for this or at that percentage does it not matter ?
> 
> (Sorry to ask so many questions, but its all a bit new.  Im keen to learn as quickly as possible, even at the risk of running before I can walk, LOL)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The overflow is in the back top right of the tank, and the RO is pumped in to the front bottom left, i.e. as far away from the overflow as possible. It takes 5 mins for the 70L to pump in, so undoubtedly as the water mixes in the tank, a percentage of the fresh water goes down the drain, but the system works well for me.  It pumps 70L twice a day, so its nearer a 35% change daily
> 
> Tony
Click to expand...


Thanks for the quick reply Tony   On a smaller setup could I get away with 20% a day on that basis ?  I like the idea.  Have to get my head around the technicals, but I am sure its doable.  You didnt mention if you heat your water before it goes in.  As its pure RO going in do you need to buffer it, and what about dechlorinator or is that not necessary for RO water?   

Cheers


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## mzm

Hi Tony. Wow thanks for your detailed reply and the graph! I really appreciate it. One last thing if you dont mind, what temperature do you keep the tank at? Since I believe the Altums do like it a bit on the warm side right?


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## Antipofish

Hi Tony.  You been in the background for a while.  Any changes to this tank or new ones for us to marvel over  ?


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## Iain Sutherland

Tony Swinney said:
			
		

> Hope that helps
> 
> Tony



Hi tony, i would love to know how your co2 relates to this, do you have full co2 capacity when the first lights come on or does it build in line with the lighting?
tried something similar with a longer period with low lighting 'sun up/sun down' but it didnt really work out   
i believed the co2 was causing stress by the end of the longer period... tried fine tuning but the fiddling caused the inevitable BBA.

the tank looks amazing and those altums are stunning.


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## sdlra




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## Iain Sutherland

Is this still running Tony?


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## Tony Swinney

Sure is Iain 

After AL I removed alot of the older, leggy plants, and added new stuff so its looking nice but a it immature right now.

I'd like to reshape it over Christmas but the altums are pretty settled in there, so I may replant around the existing hardscape, rather than a full tear down.

Tony


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## StevenA

Hi Tony, just been browsing this thread. The full tank shots look stunning, very well done on another fantastic layout


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## LondonDragon

Shame the video is no longer working! We need a new one Tony


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## RynoParsons

Wow those Altums are stunning. We dont get them here in South Africa


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## Tony Swinney

A rare update !!!
The tank is still running - its been over 3 years since i did the hardscape, but the planting keeps evolving for one reason or another. I've been trying to get some reds going in there for the past few months, and they are starting to come through now. The Barclaya in the centre has gone nuts recently, with 45cm leaves coming off it, whilst the ludwigia sp. red is a recent introduction thats doing well too. It was trimmed just before these pics, but was up to the surface where it goes a full bodied wine red hue.

I'll try not to leave it so long before another update 



Antipofish said:


> Tony, how do you achieve this ? Mine is about 500  (after a 50% water change)


Theres an auto change system on it which pumps 80L of fresh RO in every morning 

Tony


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## Tony Swinney

I also meant to say, that the 8 x GroBeam 1000's have been swapped to the new GroBeam 1500 Ultimas.  This was courtesy of TMC, as I discovered there were failed LED's on each of the original units, so TMC replaced them all with the new versions under warranty - great service !
The plants are liking the new lights, and I think that has helped the redness developed, as well as generally healthier plants.

Tony


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## Daz2162

Unbelievable tank tony,  it looks soooo natural, bet your fish bloody love living here. 

Fancy coming round and doing my tank up? Haha. 

Cheers 

Darren


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## Ady34

Immense Tony!
Great when an update springs from nowhere to remind us of a stunning tank.
I particularly love the photo of the chocolate gourami in the mini fern.
Maybe don't leave it so long next time 
Cheerio,
Ady


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## tim

Just read through your journal again, such an evolution from initial planting, really stunning example of a successful long term scape. Bloody superb


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## Ian Holdich

quality pics mate!

look foward to seeing you in London at the big tank project...i'll get the whiskey in this time.

ps, full bodied red wine! lol


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## Tony Swinney

Daz2162 said:


> Unbelievable tank tony, it looks soooo natural, bet your fish bloody love living here.
> Fancy coming round and doing my tank up? Haha.
> Cheers
> Darren


Thanks Darren, the "natural look' is down to the tank being 3 years old now, and plants have adapted and found their places, whilst new ones have filled the gaps. This tank is a relatively simple setup, with CO2 on 24/7 which has really helped stability, and Tropica ferts added once a week. I dont 'fight' any plants to make them survive in there, if they dont like it they come out, and if they do like it they stay 



Ady34 said:


> Immense Tony!
> Great when an update springs from nowhere to remind us of a stunning tank.
> I particularly love the photo of the chocolate gourami in the mini fern.
> Maybe don't leave it so long next time
> Cheerio,
> Ady


Thanks Ady, the choc gouramis are great, but bloody tricky to photograph ! I'll try to update more often, but then you'll not get that thrill when an update springs forth from the archives 



tim said:


> Just read through your journal again, such an evolution from initial planting, really stunning example of a successful long term scape. Bloody superb


Thanks alot Tim. I'd usually get bored with the hardscape after so long, but I still like this, and find different ways of planting it a nice way to work. It just evolves.  Redoing the hardscape in this tank is a pain as its built into the wall, so replanting is good.



Ian Holdich said:


> quality pics mate!
> look foward to seeing you in London at the big tank project...i'll get the whiskey in this time.
> ps, full bodied red wine! lol


 
Cheers mate, looking forward to seeing you in London town. Whiskey you say !?! Oh go on then  I knew you'd appreciate the wine analogy 

I've been pruning and re-planting another tank today so may just start another journal tomorrow  Two post in a week eh - I'm on a roll 

Tony


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## Ian Holdich

It's finally full of water is it! 

Get a journal up, I'm sure it's a winner!


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## Tony Swinney

Dont be daft Ian - that one is still dry !  It was just the 45P with the monster hair grass that I did yesterday.

Plants are due this week for the 100cm though, so that'll be three up and running again 

Tony


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## Iain Sutherland

Tony Swinney said:


> Plants are due this week for the 100cm though, so that'll be three up and running again
> Tony


 
back to a life of water changes then Tony, will be good to see what you have done with the 100.

Really like this one, has a nice natural unsculpted look to it. Have the Altum numbers gone down or just hiding?


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## Mr P

this has been a fascinating read,it is beautiful.i like the way it has evolved,you have put a lot time and trouble into this project.how do the altums get on among themselves?have they paired up .once again ,brilliant.mrP.


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## Tony Swinney

Iain Sutherland said:


> back to a life of water changes then Tony, will be good to see what you have done with the 100. Really like this one, has a nice natural unsculpted look to it. Have the Altum numbers gone down or just hiding?


 
Hi Iain, the 100 is hardscaped now - nothing particularly groundbreaking, but something I've wanted to do for a while now.  Its not a million miles from Asian Dreams actually !  I lost three altums a while back for no apparent reason, and then had fighting between the remaining four so have given two to a mate.



Mr P said:


> this has been a fascinating read,it is beautiful.i like the way it has evolved,you have put a lot time and trouble into this project.how do the altums get on among themselves?have they paired up .once again ,brilliant.mrP.


 
Thanks Mr P, its quite a pleasure looking back through the journal to see its evolution - it all seems a long time ago !  One day it'll get a full rescape !

Tony


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## greenink

This is an amazing tank. Am just about to build something pretty similar, as a 'hole in the wall', and would really appreciate any advice. If you were going to do it again, is there anything you'd change? Particularly:

- what height would you have above the tank?
- would you do the 'overflow' in the same way? Still at the back, or at the side?
- Do you definitely need front access?



Tony Swinney said:


> Re: Tonsers 420L "Triassic Hollow" - Day6
> 
> The tank backing allowed me to install the overflow system, and the RO/HMA reservoir and top up pump is done and working on a timer. For now it pumps in 75L of fresh water every morning after the lights switch on (about 20% ) and the overflow lets the same amount run out. I know this is not an exact water change as some of the fresh water will run away too but I'll see how it goes. I might add a drain on a timer to one of the filter pipes and drain 20L away first, before adding the fresh.
> 
> Here's a couple of behind the scenes pics, as we all love to see the 'gubbins'


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## Tim Harrison

Holy...!!!


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## Tony Swinney

I haven't been around for a long time due to work / family commitments leaving very little time for 'scaling   Triassic Hollow is still going strong though, but ...

We've also just agreed to a sale of out house, so this tank is fall sale !  I'd prefer it to go to a ukaps member as a complete setup, and the price will be very sensible 

If anyone is interested please PM me, thanks.

Tony


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## Tony Swinney

The tank and all the plants are now listed for sale in the Sale - the tank is FREE


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## Keetchy

Tony Swinney said:


> The tank and all the plants are now listed for sale in the Sale - the tank is FREE


Hey bud. Very very late response to your thread. Lol. I hope you managed to sell the tank and the house too.

Just got a quick question about your oxygen levels in the tank. I used to inject C02 into my discus tank but with discus being so sensitive to everything, they were gasping quite a lot at the surface of the water. I had to angle my filter outlet spouts up quite a lot to agitate the surface for oxygen. Now the problem with me doing this is the C02 was just getting spat right out to atmosphere.

How did you get the balance right between discus not suffocating and enough C02 being distributed around the tank for the plants?


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## Tim Harrison

Tony was last seen here May 2018, so I'm not too confident that you'll get an answer from him.

However, if it were my tank I'd inject just enough CO2 to turn the drop checker green, rather than lime green. Any CO2 fertilisation is better than none, and you will still achieve success if you choose "easy" plants, which are most likely to survive a Discus tank anyway. Take a look at the Easy Tropica range.

Good surface agitation is always going to be essential for gas exchange and oxygenation as is a surface free from biofilm; I'd also employ a surface skimmer and take the hit on the extra CO2 needed. The welfare of critters is paramount after all.


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## Keetchy

Tim Harrison said:


> Tony was last seen here May 2018, so I'm not too confident that you'll get an answer from him.
> 
> However, if it were my tank I'd inject just enough CO2 to turn the drop checker green, rather than lime green. Any CO2 fertilisation is better than none, and you will still achieve success if you choose "easy" plants, which are most likely to survive a Discus tank anyway. Take a look at the Easy Tropica range.
> 
> Good surface agitation is always going to be essential for gas exchange and oxygenation as is a surface free from biofilm; I'd also employ a surface skimmer and take the hit on the extra CO2 needed. The welfare of critters is paramount after all.



Ah ok. Thought it was a low chance of him still being here but thought would ask anyway. Lol.

Thanks Tim. I need to get myself a skimmer as quote regularly I see a film forming on top of the surface. I feed beefheart to the tank so that'll be where the film is forming from. Because I dont like having bulky filters constantly sitting in the tank, will it be ok to just use the protein skimmer twice a week for an hour or so just before a WC?


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## Tim Harrison

I don't see why not. Also some folk use these instead of in tank skimmers/filters...

https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/the-aquascaper-glass-pipework-set-12mm-by-ea-2620-p.asp


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