# LED lights for nano tank lid



## kadoxu (26 May 2016)

Hi,

I have a Fluval Chi 19L tank which I would like to upgrade a bit in order to grow some low to medium light plants.

My idea was to get some waterproof LEDs attached to the lid... but I'm a bit worried about overheating (it's a plastic lid)...

I've seen a few DIY projects on Youtube, but I'd really appreciate some advice before going out and spending the few pounds I have for this! 

I came across a lot of waterproof leds, but the cheaper ones had a color temp between 12000K to 15000K... I ditched those, because what I believe is better for plant growth is around 6500K, right?

So that left me with the following options:
1 from China - 20pcs 3 LEDs Module SDM 5050 IP68 Cool White 3m LED Strip Lights - * 5700-6300K*
1 Fulfilled by Amazon - CO-RODE 40Pcs 5730 SMD LED Module Daylight White - *6500-7000k
*
I'm leaning more towards the second option... What do you guys think?


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## ian_m (26 May 2016)

1. Not particularly bright, 60 LED's will give less than 1000lumens. And that is a dispersed unfocussed 1000lumens.
2. As tank is so small, how are you going to get all these modules, mounted in aesthetically pleasing way (ie not bodged) above the tank ?
3. The modules generate heat, how are you going to get rid of the heat ?
4. The lighting angle of these LED's is greater than 120', thus unless you mount the LED at the water surface (or add lenses) a significant amount of light will fall outside the tank.
5. RS sell "proper make" 3 LED strips like these, that are 300lumen per module, radiance angle of 80' (much better), but being a "proper make" are £12 each.


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## kadoxu (26 May 2016)

I'm a complete beginner... so brace yourself for a few dumb questions! 



ian_m said:


> 1. Not particularly bright, 60 LED's will give less than 1000lumens. And that is a dispersed unfocussed 1000lumens.



I was kind of ignoring lumens... as a human eye perception level I paid more attention to colour temp... So how many lumens should I be looking to add to get low to medium light in an small (L25 x W25 x H35 cm) aquarium? (note that I'm keeping the original filter/lights)



ian_m said:


> 2. As tank is so small, how are you going to get all these modules, mounted in aesthetically pleasing way (ie not bodged) above the tank ?
> 3. The modules generate heat, how are you going to get rid of the heat ?
> 4. The lighting angle of these LED's is greater than 120', thus unless you mount the LED at the water surface (or add lenses) a significant amount of light will fall outside the tank.



I've seen people attaching LEDs under the lid (which is flat and sits 1-2cm above water level). The thing is, I am pretty sure those lights aren't suitable for plant growth. I was hoping they wouldn't heat up too much... If they do I'll have to plan a bit. I've thought about a few things (I was into RC cars and dealing with motor heat was one of the main issues in the hobby), but I would have to test them if the need arises (and it probably will).
About the spread... I had the wrong idea... I realised how dumb it was while reading your reply... lol




ian_m said:


> 5. RS sell "proper make" 3 LED strips like these, that are 300lumen per module, radiance angle of 80' (much better), but being a "proper make" are £12 each.



Well... it all depends on the amount of lumens I need...


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## ian_m (26 May 2016)

kadoxu said:


> Well... it all depends on the amount of lumens I need...


Well your tank is 19litre which is 5 US gallons. EI & lighting and CO2 research was using US gallons.

2W per gallon is start of "high light" region, thus 10W T5 HO would suffice (if you could get T5 that small). Assuming a poor value of 50lumens per Watt for T5, thus 500lumens would be the value to aim for.

Thus aim for say 1000 lumens (double it) total, with ability to dim, as I suspect 1000lumens on such a small tank is a lot. It is far easier to reduce lighting than add more.

Again with such a small tank you need to ensure as much light as possible is pointed downward, to illuminate the bottom of the tank and not things outside the tank.


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## kadoxu (27 May 2016)

Thank you!

I'm assuming that these "proper made" RS 3 LED strips also produce much more heat (since they are much more powerful than the crappy ones I was looking into)... or, since they are "proper made", can it mean they are more efficient and produce less heat?


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## ian_m (27 May 2016)

kadoxu said:


> I'm assuming that these "proper made" RS 3 LED strips also produce much more heat (since they are much more powerful than the crappy ones I was looking into)... or, since they are "proper made", can it mean they are more efficient and produce less heat?


They are much more efficient, producing over 100 lumens per Watt, but run at higher power so will probably generate more heat. However they are on an aluminium PCB and come with a thermal pad that allows the module to be screwed directly to a heat sink.

But as I said are £12 each !!! Search rswww.com for part number 877-6907 for instance.


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## kadoxu (27 May 2016)

ian_m said:


> They are much more efficient, producing over 100 lumens per Watt, but run at higher power so will probably generate more heat. However they are on an aluminium PCB and come with a thermal pad that allows the module to be screwed directly to a heat sink.
> 
> But as I said are £12 each !!! Search rswww.com for part number 877-6907 for instance.



Hum... I don't think I can use these... I need them to be waterproof. There is a lot of water condensation happening where I want to place them...


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## ian_m (27 May 2016)

kadoxu said:


> I need them to be waterproof


The original Ebay LED's you linked to, no way are they waterproof if you look at the pictures. Exposed LED leads & solder joints wont last long with any moisture around.

This is the cheap Chinese interpretation of waterproof of course, which probably means OK to wipe with a damp cloth and that's all. This forum is full of people who have bought Chinese "water proof" LED fixtures and suffered corrosion and eventual failure when moisture gets in.

Anyway could you put the LED's behind a plastic sheet ?


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## kadoxu (27 May 2016)

ian_m said:


> The original Ebay LED's you linked to, no way are they waterproof if you look at the pictures. Exposed LED leads & solder joints wont last long with any moisture around.



Yeah... I wasn't very confident about those.

The other ones (from Amazon) however are apparently on some sort of casing. They are supposed to be IP65, meaning it shouldn't work underwater, but can endure a water jet for 3 minutes... not sure how they would do with condensation. No information about lighting angle, though... probably 120 or more...

I'm starting to realise that keeping the original lid will be almost impossible...


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## kadoxu (23 Aug 2016)

So... I went along and did it! I found better LEDs

LED Modules - 2 x  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CY269BK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4-Pin Male Connector - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260987735209?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Controller - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262394664564?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Power Supply - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ZWLTIV4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I was able to put 14-15 LED modules in the lid, meaning I now have something like:

56-60 5050 LEDs
Luminous: 1400-1500lm
Color Temperature: 6000-6500K
Power Consumption: 20-22W
Light Dispersion: 120º
I'll post pics later today... I'll also have some PAR measurements as soon as I get my Seneye Reef this week!


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## Aqua360 (24 Aug 2016)

Seems like a lot of work for the size of tank, seneye reef etc; but I'll follow this thread, interested to see your results! Good luck!


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## kadoxu (24 Aug 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> Seems like a lot of work for the size of tank, seneye reef etc; but I'll follow this thread, interested to see your results! Good luck!


It's the bigger one I was able to get for my tiny flat... lol. It wasn't too hard to do, the thing is I couldn't find any solutions that would allow me to keep the original Fluval Chi filter (it stands on top of the water in the center of the tank).

Seneye Reef is a bit overkill, but I want to check the light levels on the tank since I can't find the original Fluval Chi LEDs specs anywhere. 

So, I had to paint it, because the cover is a bit transparent and the colourful wires would stand out too much. I forgot to take pictures before... but here it is (still drying out)









 I'm still thinking about what I'll do with the extra modules. For now they are still attached...


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## Aqua360 (24 Aug 2016)

kadoxu said:


> It's the bigger one I was able to get for my tiny flat... lol. It wasn't too hard to do, the thing is I couldn't find any solutions that would allow me to keep the original Fluval Chi filter (it stands on top of the water in the center of the tank).
> 
> Seneye Reef is a bit overkill, but I want to check the light levels on the tank since I can't find the original Fluval Chi LEDs specs anywhere.
> 
> ...



are you planning livestock? betta, shrimp, that sort of thing?


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## kadoxu (24 Aug 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> are you planning livestock? betta, shrimp, that sort of thing?


Yup, the main goal is to have some Red Cherry Shrimp and a couple of Zebra Nerite Snails, but for now I just want to keep some plants alive... lol

I'll be sticking to plants for about a year, since my landlord refused to allow me to get an aquarium... He just didn't realise there's nothing he can do if I don't have animals in it...


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## kadoxu (25 Aug 2016)

So here is the final result. (Sorry about the thermometers, but I'm testing a new heater)

No Fluval Light




With Fluval Light




And standing up angles


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## rebel (27 Aug 2016)

Keen to see what PAR measurements you get from these....very nice build.


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## kadoxu (27 Aug 2016)

rebel said:


> Keen to see what PAR measurements you get from these....very nice build.



What I learned... It's a pain trying to put the seneye in place with the lid on...

So here are the results (not too bad, but not as good as I would like):

Dotted line is visible light, coloured line is the ideal for plant growth, and the white line is the measurement.

*Water Top*




*Mid Height*




*Bottom*





So, now I'm looking for some new LEDs... lol


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## rebel (28 Aug 2016)

Are you using rgb LEDS? If so just swap out to cool white 5630 LEDS. They are bright but get quite hot. 

That par could be ok though, for slow growth. The algae willbe probably kept in nice check. 

I wouldn't change much at the moment.


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## kadoxu (28 Aug 2016)

rebel said:


> Are you using rgb LEDS? If so just swap out to cool white 5630 LEDS. They are bright but get quite hot.


Yup, RGB LEDs. I didn't go for 5630 LEDs because the cover they are attached to is acrylic and I was afraid it would melt/burn...



rebel said:


> That par could be ok though, for slow growth.


They should be ok for low light plants... I will surely use them for now to see if they work well as a complementary light for the Fluval Chi LED. But I believe they won't be enough for my Eleocharis (parvula and sp. mini) carpet though.


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