# Suggestions for very fine roots/branches . . .



## Wookii (21 Jan 2021)

Hey guys,

I'm trying to source some fine root structure hardscape branches, the sort of very fine branching you would see as roots coming out of a river bank. The branching needs to be a lot finer than the usual spiderwood type branches. The closest representative image I can find is for these custom aquarium backgrounds you can buy:






I'm sure I've read that dried heather roots are like this, but I can't seem to find anything online.

Does anyone have any ideas or sources for something like this?


----------



## Tim Harrison (21 Jan 2021)

_Calluna vulgaris_, heather...
There should be some moorland near you. Best to just pick up the dead bits that aren't attached anymore, they are more suitable and won't cause damage.
Beware of bylaws and damaging operations forbidding the removal of material from private land and nature reserves.


----------



## Wookii (21 Jan 2021)

Tim Harrison said:


> _Calluna vulgaris_, heather...
> There should be some moorland near you. Best to just pick up the dead bits that aren't attached anymore, they are more suitable and won't cause damage.
> Beware of bylaws and damaging operations forbidding the removal of material from private land and nature reserves.



Thanks Tim. I'm not sure of where the nearest open Moorland is to us, I'll have to look that up - maybe in the Peak District.

I'm surprised it's available commercially, unless I'm looking under the wrong search terms.


----------



## Wookii (21 Jan 2021)

Just found these that might be an option too. Senggani roots:





Unfortunately I can't see any available in the UK.


----------



## Conort2 (21 Jan 2021)

Ancient Root Detailing Root
					

Ancient RootA true air root from 100-200 cms, each pack is a natural root that goes from 2 cms thickness down to few millimeters, so each piece




					riverwoodaquatics.co.uk
				




not sure if these would be any good?


----------



## Wookii (21 Jan 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Ancient Root Detailing Root
> 
> 
> Ancient RootA true air root from 100-200 cms, each pack is a natural root that goes from 2 cms thickness down to few millimeters, so each piece
> ...


Thanks Conor

Some of their "Ramous wood" wood pieces look like they might be suitable too, though a little less 'rooty' than I was looking for.


----------



## Ady34 (22 Jan 2021)

Saw some at ADG in America, but again not uk.


----------



## Wookii (22 Jan 2021)

Ady34 said:


> Saw some at ADG in America, but again not uk.



Thanks Ady, but what is ADG?


----------



## Nick potts (22 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks Ady, but what is ADG?


Aquarium Design Group

Closest i have seen for sale is the ancient wood at riverwood


----------



## Wookii (22 Jan 2021)

Nick potts said:


> Aquarium Design Group
> 
> Closest i have seen for sale is the ancient wood at riverwood



Yeah, it looks like it might work - but it's a little hard to tell with the only image being a bundle of it - I'm not sure what it'll look like once fanned out. Has you used the stuff?


----------



## Lord_Lucan (22 Jan 2021)

This sort of thing?









						Aquarium Wood treeFor Vivarium Fish Tank Aquascaping 1  | eBay
					

<p dir="ltr">Aquarium Wood tree For Vivarium Fish Tank Aquascaping . Condition is New. Dispatched with Royal Mail 2nd Class.<br> Not weighted.<br> No fertiliser or pesticide used.</p>



					www.ebay.co.uk


----------



## Wookii (22 Jan 2021)

Lord_Lucan said:


> This sort of thing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did see that earlier today - I’ve literally worn eBay thin with searching - it’s no really the fine root look I’m looking for.

I’m looking to simulate terrestrial roots growing down from the bank into the water.


----------



## mort (22 Jan 2021)

^ I love the entrepreneurial spirit. Looks like they killed a bonsai and saw a opportunity to still make some cash.

Op do you have any shrubs? You might have one that's got good safe roots that you can use if you don't mind sacrificing part of it. I've seen people use azaleas for a similar affect.


----------



## mort (22 Jan 2021)

If its submerged roots, do you have any rivers near you? You could see if some alder or similar tree could donate some clippings from roots bursting through the banks.


----------



## dw1305 (22 Jan 2021)

Hi all, 
Not exactly what you want, but you can buy <"birch twigs for besom brooms">. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Jaseon (22 Jan 2021)

Unless you want the challenge of creating it yourself that custom background look good.


----------



## Hufsa (22 Jan 2021)

Ive got some of these very fine roots in my storage that I probably wont use, they are from a native hardwood tree that had fallen over one stormy night. Shipping might be a little bit costly from Norway but if you want them they're yours. I can take some pics of them if youre interested. They still have a lot of the very fine stuff attached so might need some trimming


----------



## alto (22 Jan 2021)

Aquaflora scaping twigs?

You can see these in Filipe Oliveira videos, if AG is still selling Aquaflora plants, they should be able to order these in as well


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

mort said:


> ^ I love the entrepreneurial spirit. Looks like they killed a bonsai and saw a opportunity to still make some cash.
> 
> Op do you have any shrubs? You might have one that's got good safe roots that you can use if you don't mind sacrificing part of it. I've seen people use azaleas for a similar affect.



We don’t have a great deal of plants and bushes in our garden - it’s set up a very minimal maintenance affair - the only candidate might be couple of Lavender bushes, though I don’t know if they are suitable for aquarium use? I obviously want to avoid anything that’s just going to rot.


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

mort said:


> If its submerged roots, do you have any rivers near you? You could see if some alder or similar tree could donate some clippings from roots bursting through the banks.



We do have several rivers near by, that’s a good idea. I’ll have to work on my tree ID skills however. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Not exactly what you want, but you can buy <"birch twigs for besom brooms">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thanks Darrel, I’ll check those out, though maybe not quite the fine root structure look I’m aiming for.


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

Jaceree said:


> Unless you want the challenge of creating it yourself that custom background look good.



The do look good don’t they. This is the website:






						Arts by Nature
					






					www.artsbynature.eu
				




The seller appears to sell them on eBay too.

I know artificial backgrounds are generally considered a bit of a no-no in aquascaping, but I’m wondering if they’d work well on a habitat style tank - If not as a below water background maybe as an above water background, with some real emersed planting in front of it.


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Ive got some of these very fine roots in my storage that I probably wont use, they are from a native hardwood tree that had fallen over one stormy night. Shipping might be a little bit costly from Norway but if you want them they're yours. I can take some pics of them if youre interested. They still have a lot of the very fine stuff attached so might need some trimming



Thanks @Hufsa thats very kind of you. If you are happy to take some pics and drop me a PM that would be great. I’m sure we could sort postage out if they are not too large.


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

alto said:


> Aquaflora scaping twigs?
> 
> You can see these in Filipe Oliveira videos, if AG is still selling Aquaflora plants, they should be able to order these in as well



Thanks Alto - do you mean these ones?:





If so, yes, they look like they might work as a backup option - I’ve seen similar on eBay - I’m not sure what tree they come from?


----------



## Ady34 (23 Jan 2021)

Hi @Wookii,
forum sponsors horizon aquatics have this in:



Its not listed on their website but I saw it today and thought of you. If it could be of use then give them a call or message and they will be able to help and send in the post.
Cheerio,


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

Ady34 said:


> Hi @Wookii,
> forum sponsors horizon aquatics have this in:
> View attachment 161132
> Its not listed on their website but I saw it today and thought of you. If it could be of use then give them a call or message and they will be able to help and send in the post.
> Cheerio,


Thanks mate - what was it called?


----------



## Ady34 (23 Jan 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks mate - what was it called?


Believe it or not, they tell me they are called ‘faraway trees’ !


----------



## Ady34 (23 Jan 2021)

@Wookii they are on their website now also


----------



## not called Bob (23 Jan 2021)

There's willow roots on the bay


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

Ady34 said:


> @Wookii they are on their website now also


Found them, thanks Ady


----------



## Wookii (23 Jan 2021)

not called Bob said:


> There's willow roots on the bay


Thanks Bob, do you have a link I can’t seem to find anything via search?


----------



## not called Bob (23 Jan 2021)

Willow Tree, driftwood, aquascaping, diorama, wood  | eBay
					

Willow Tree sold individually, each tree is 35-40cm tall and will make a great addition to an aquascape, add moss to the create mini underwater trees.



					www.ebay.co.uk
				




Live near a deciduous wood? Should find some naturally felled oak in larger ones. 

Mobile version does not show location to see if anyone can suggest one.


----------



## Wookii (16 Feb 2021)

So my ongoing search for natural looking roots continues. The 'Faraway' tress suggested by Ady from Horizon Aquatics are still an option, but for the amount I would likely need are a bit of a pricey option - I'd likely need £60-£100 worth

We went to a local country park last weekend with an estate lake, so I took the opportunity to have a quick look under some of the Alders for exposed roots as suggested by @mort. That drew a blank sadly, but I will have the local river to check in the next couple of weeks.

In the meantime I saw these online:









						Alder 120/150cm bare root
					

__UseParent__




					www.hedgesdirect.co.uk
				












						Alder Common Bare Root Hedging 1.5-2ft 40/60cm - Hopes Grove Nurseries
					

1 year old




					www.hopesgrovenurseries.co.uk
				








Does anyone know if these would be suitable for aquarium use? A little bit wasteful of a year old tree I know, but I could use the roots for my scaping idea, and cut twigs for substrate decoration, so there wouldn't be much wastage.

If they are suitable, what would I need to do to prepare them for use? I assume I couldn't just use them as is - I'm guessing I need to boil them or dry them or some such?


----------



## mort (16 Feb 2021)

Do you have any local woodland near you? If you do, and your weather has been anything like ours over the last couple of years, you might be able to find a tree that's toppled over with its roots exposed. I'd suggest that over the fresh roots as they will have been matured by the weather and will likely cause fewer problems. It was the same idea with the alder roots in the water as the water will have washed out a lot of material.

Alder should be safe to use when slightly matured, as would be beech or hornbeam if looking at hedging. Normally I'd leave anything I wanted to use in a water butt for 6 months or so, to mature but I'm sure you could speed up the process. It's not something I've tried but hopefully someone has and can advise.


----------



## Wookii (16 Feb 2021)

mort said:


> Do you have any local woodland near you? If you do, and your weather has been anything like ours over the last couple of years, you might be able to find a tree that's toppled over with its roots exposed. I'd suggest that over the fresh roots as they will have been matured by the weather and will likely cause fewer problems. It was the same idea with the alder roots in the water as the water will have washed out a lot of material.
> 
> Alder should be safe to use when slightly matured, as would be beech or hornbeam if looking at hedging. Normally I'd leave anything I wanted to use in a water butt for 6 months or so, to mature but I'm sure you could speed up the process. It's not something I've tried but hopefully someone has and can advise.



Yeah, I'm keeping an eye out. Unfortunately the few fallen trees I've managed to locate so far have either broken at the trunk leaving a stump in the ground, or where they have fell from the base have left the majority of the roots in the ground, with none of the smaller fine roots I'm after being visible. I'll keep looking though.


----------



## Wookii (22 Feb 2021)

Just stumbled across these on Amazon:

Amazon product





A quick google suggests that Vetiver grass is used in some places to help remove pollutants and excess nutrients in water treatment, so I'm assuming these dried roots would be aquarium safe. Any thoughts? (@dw1305 ?)


----------



## Dorey (22 Feb 2021)

Have you thought about using palm brushes. Crowders aquatics sell them and offer postage


----------



## Dorey (22 Feb 2021)

And these


----------



## Wookii (22 Feb 2021)

Thanks @Dorey - it's funny you mention that, I was looking at their social media photos after reading your thread this morning here: Dorey’s EA 900

They look for have a great choice of botanicals. 

The palm brush looking interesting - maybe a bit too uniform for my purposes perhaps. Those Ramous roots look good. I need to figure out how see what specific pieces they have in stock - they don't seem to have a working website strangely.


----------



## Dorey (22 Feb 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks @Dorey - it's funny you mention that, I was looking at their social media photos after reading your thread this morning here: Dorey’s EA 900
> 
> They look for have a great choice of botanicals.
> 
> The palm brush looking interesting - maybe a bit too uniform for my purposes perhaps. Those Ramous roots look good. I need to figure out how see what specific pieces they have in stock - they don't seem to have a working website strangely.


Think the website got put on hold when lockdown started as a 3rd party we’re doing it, if you message them directly they are helpful and will send pics, tell them I sent you


----------



## dw1305 (22 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Vetiver grass is used in some places to help remove pollutants and excess nutrients in water treatment


It is, a quick search for "_Vetiveria zizanioides"_ and "phytoremediation" on <"Google Scholar would pull up lots of papers">.  One reason it has been used is that it is "luxury absorber" and <"can be used for phyto-extraction">.


Wookii said:


> so I'm assuming these dried roots would be aquarium safe.


That would be a little bit open to question, it would really depend on how the plant was grown. 

I'm going to guess hydroponically in diluted waste water. How much the roots accumulated in terms of heavy metals etc. would depend on the waste, but if it was diluted pig slurry, for example, they may have picked up a lot of copper (Cu) etc.

I'd probably give it a miss, but that possibly is over-cautious.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (22 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> That would be a little bit open to question, it would really depend on how the plant was grown.
> 
> I'm going to guess hydroponically in diluted waste water. How much the roots accumulated in terms of heavy metals etc. would depend on the waste, but if it was diluted pig slurry, for example, they may have picked up a lot of copper (Cu) etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks Darrel - these are being sold on Amazon for human consumption as a herbal remedy by infusion - I'm not sure if that changes your assessment? It's only text (so could be complete BS) but from the listing:



> 100% natural Vetiver Roots, dried and cleaned naturally without chemicals and sourced directly from producers in India, to ensure local communities are supported; Our Vetiver (Khus) Roots are suitable for Vegans and Vegetarians; free from Animal Testing and from Fillers and Binders;Gluten;Wheat;Lactose;Yeast;Sugars;Preservatives;Artificial Colouring



Doesn't mean it wasn't still grown in pigs#@t in India I guess 😂 - would boiling a re-drying remove excess copper if it did contain any?


----------



## dw1305 (22 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> these are being sold on Amazon for human consumption as a herbal remedy by infusion


Yes, it does totally safe. 

They probably wont last very long in the tank was another thought. 


Wookii said:


> would boiling a re-drying remove excess copper if it did contain any?


No.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (22 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Yes, it does totally safe.
> 
> ...



Thanks Darrel - yes, longevity was a concern with all these options too.

Any thoughts on those Alder sampling roots I posted further up? (Post #33)


----------



## dw1305 (22 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> longevity was a concern with all these options too.





Wookii said:


> Alder sapling roots I posted further up?


The roots would last longer, and @Dorey's palm flower longer again.

Thinking about the bare root Alder, the easiest option may be a growing plant? With its roots in front of the hardscape? <"_Cyperus alternifolius"> _would have the right sort of roots.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (22 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> The roots would last longer, and @Dorey's palm flower longer again.
> ...



Thanks Darrel, I would intend on having some emersed growth within this design, and hopefully some naturally occuring roots would feature, but in terms of disguising the look on my muddied river bank (How to create a muddied river bank . . .) I'd like some dried version that I can add manually to start with.


----------



## Wookii (26 Feb 2021)

Many thanks to @Hufsa foe very kindly sending me these roots, they look great. I will probabaly need to source some more, but these give me a fantastic start! Thanks again mate 👍






PS - that’s not weed in the bag!! 😂


----------

