# DIY Citric acid CO2 complete system for £35 or less



## kadoxu (2 Sep 2016)

I'm thinking about adding CO2 to my tropical planted nano tank, but I don't really want to go all in before I see the difference. I like to have good quality stuff whenever possible and this would mean that the initial costs would be way too expensive for me...

So I'm going to try to somehow follow one of the DIY King's Youtube videos: HOW TO: DIY CO2 system for aquarium plants TUTORIAL 

I could follow the older video (without the kit) and adapt it to citric acid mixture to be cheaper, but there are too many leaking issues that can occur eventually and I don't have the tools to fix them.

What I'll need:

*2 x 2L plastic bottles*
free

*Citric acid*
*£3.95* for 500g on Ebay 111067321545
The more you buy the cheaper it gets on the long run

*Baking soda*
*£2.49* on Ebay 301071516578
The more you buy the cheaper it gets on the long run

*DIY CO2 generator system kit*
*£9.89* from Ebay 291556693438
I picked a newer (not necessarily better) version for *£9.99 + £3.99* postage on Ebay 381561320060

*Bubble counter & check valve*
I picked an inline bubble counter with an integrated check valve for *£2.44* on Ebay 391488398005

*U Shaped glass Tube*
2 for *£0.99* on Ebay 322181839739

*CO2 diffuser*
*£2.01* on Ebay 201543459008

*Total*:* £21.77* (newer version *£25.86*)


Optional extras

*Drop checker*
I picked a smaller one for *£1.59* on Ebay 311472361545

*Drop checker solution*
I didn't want to take chances, so I bought one from CO2 Supermarket for *£4.99* (with P&P if you buy from their ebay store 30177881946)
_Please let me know if you use a cheaper one with good results._
The more you buy the cheaper it gets on the long run

*CO2 tubing*
Just to be safe with quality and to be sure I have enough. 1meter for* £1.95* CO2 Supermarket on Ebay 291069297042

*Flow control valve*
10x for *£0.99* on Ebay 361342723453
The idea here is to have 2 valves, one to fine tune CO2 dosing and another to stop the flow during the night.
If you have light timers, you may want to get a Solenoid Valve instead. You can get one from Ebay for £6.35 (+ £1.99 P&P) 311524840945

*Total w/ extras: £31.29* (newer version* £35.38*)

I haven't ordered anything yet, as I'm looking for some insights from you guys! So, let the comments begin!


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## rebel (2 Sep 2016)

Are you going to in the hobby for a couple of years? If so, buy it once. This applies especially to co2. Beginners shouldn't dabble with co2, especially in tiny tanks. If you wish to dabble, that system is fine but don't any livestock to your tank. Play to your hearts content. Switching it on and off will get old very soon. You'd want a solenoid as well. 

Good luck!


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## kadoxu (2 Sep 2016)

rebel said:


> Are you going to in the hobby for a couple of years? If so, buy it once. This applies especially to co2. Beginners shouldn't dabble with co2, especially in tiny tanks. If you wish to dabble, that system is fine but don't any livestock to your tank. Play to your hearts content. Switching it on and off will get old very soon. You'd want a solenoid as well.
> 
> Good luck!


I have to dabble if I want to learn something! 

I just want to see the big difference between adding Liquid Carbon and CO2. I don't need CO2 at the moment, but it want to try it anyway...

I have no intention of trying this in a tank with livestock... I'm not THAT crazy! 

The reason for not picking a solenoid is simply because I don't need one to make the experiment. But I'll add a comment on the original post!


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## ian_m (2 Sep 2016)

Note if you are using a solenoid, you need to use it to vent the bottles, rather than stop the flow. Stopping the flow will burst the bottles.

Couple of issue you will need to solve:

You will then need to crack the issue, that during the night venting the bottles make your house wiff of citric acid and baking powder smells (mind you better than yeasty pong if using yeast).

Corrosion of the solenoids has been seen to be an issue so you need to bubble the vented gas through water to remove any acid before the vent valve.

When night time valve opens you need a way to stop the active bottle contents foaming up upon pressure relief solenouid and venting out into the room....messy.

Basically....fire extinguisger £10, Ebay Hong Kong CO2 regulator £30. Done and done right first time with proper CO2 control, especially important on a smaller tank.


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## Aqua360 (2 Sep 2016)

ian_m said:


> Note if you are using a solenoid, you need to use it to vent the bottles, rather than stop the flow. Stopping the flow will burst the bottles.
> 
> Couple of issue you will need to solve:
> 
> ...



Hi Ian, do you have a link to the Hong Kong regulator? sounds interesting


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## ian_m (2 Sep 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> Hi Ian, do you have a link to the Hong Kong regulator? sounds interesting


Search Ebay there are quite a few. Personally I wouldn't bother as you don't save that much compared to UK based, get better quality products in the UK and mucgh easier to sort issues if in UK. Just get a regulator from CO2Supermarket or CO2Art both UK based and quality products.

eg only a couple of quid more than Hong Kong version.
http://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/co2...id-magnetic-valve-horizontal-valves-p181.html


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## kadoxu (2 Sep 2016)

ian_m said:


> Note if you are using a solenoid, you need to use it to vent the bottles, rather than stop the flow. Stopping the flow will burst the bottles.


The newer version of DIY kit comes with a safety pressure valve, which prevents the system from bursting.
I was also under the impression that this system controlled the amount of CO2 generated by the way it works... supposedly, the pressure drop in the final bottle makes the mixture from the first to be sucked and mixed to generate more CO2... therefore if the pressure was high, it would stop mixing the stuff.



ian_m said:


> You will then need to crack the issue, that during the night venting the bottles make your house wiff of citric acid and baking powder smells (mind you better than yeasty pong if using yeast).


Yeah... I don't have a clue on how strong the smell can be, but it could be the bigger problem with this project in my case...



ian_m said:


> Basically....fire extinguisger £10, Ebay Hong Kong CO2 regulator £30. Done and done right first time with proper CO2 control, especially important on a smaller tank.


I dropped the FE idea after trying to find a cheap fire extinguisher... where do you buy it for £10?




Aqua360 said:


> Hi Ian, do you have a link to the Hong Kong regulator? sounds interesting


Same here
(I was replying and doing some research at the same time, so I didn't see your answer @ian_m )


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## ian_m (2 Sep 2016)

kadoxu said:


> I dropped the FE idea after trying to find a cheap fire extinguisher... where do you buy it for £10?


I phoned up FE suppliers from the phone numbers on the FE's in shops, work, library etc and foudn one that will supply 2nd hand for £10 each. Many other people have found the same type of deal by just phoning round.


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## MrHidley (2 Sep 2016)

Agree with Ian that fire extinguishers are so cheap you should just go that route. Every time I've tried to save money in this hobby by using a cheap alternative I've ended up replacing whatever bit of kit it was with the recommended one within a few months making it more expensive.


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## kadoxu (2 Sep 2016)

MrHidley said:


> Agree with Ian that fire extinguishers are so cheap you should just go that route. Every time I've tried to save money in this hobby by using a cheap alternative I've ended up replacing whatever bit of kit it was with the recommended one within a few months making it more expensive.


I agree, the thing is I don't really need it... I just want to try and see the difference it makes.

Also, I think the fire extinguisher is a bit too tall for the space I have (I still have to measure it to be sure).


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## zozo (3 Sep 2016)

If you have no lifestock in the tank you just could go for a 24/7 adding co2, plants you can't gass to death. If you have lifestock i also wouldn't go for the diy option, in the end it's not cheaper and more work.. Regulators do not need to be expensive and are also to find used at ebay. Most expensive is the bottle if you can't find a FE supplier. Then you have to buy a bottle once, but the co2 in it aint expensive the bottle is. After that you can switch the empty bottle for a full one again. But if you go small, a 500 gram bottle are also not so expensive.

But if you are realy inntrested in diy look up the older topics of Greenfinger2, there you can see what you can achieve with it.. He did it all without lifestock and only plants and he created to most beautifull and perfectly clean planted setups with it.  But in the end he also went for pressurized.. 

What also is an option to consider with diy is the temperature, the bacterial process making the co2 works best around 25° C +.. So placing the bottles on a terrarium heating mat and heat it up during the light periode and switch it off and let it cool during the dark periode. This will increase bubble count during the day and lower it during the night.

I did read in some topics that the bottle caps you are linking to are very fragile and break very easy.. So you might be better off investing in the aloy version, that one with the safety valve. But then again considering it's price, a regulator will be around the same..

If you do not want to spent to much look at 
http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Aquarium-CO2-Equipment-c-2844.html
It aint all top of the bill what they sell, but still good enough for a beginner. The glassare they sell is good in quality it just can have little aesthetic flaws. It's the same stuff as what you find on ebay. The also sell regulators.


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## kadoxu (5 Sep 2016)

I'll probably have to forget about this project... introducing smells with a pregnant woman in the house is something I want to avoid!

So, I'm going to try to find a bargain in some used CO2 equipment...


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## zozo (5 Sep 2016)

kadoxu said:


> introducing smells with a pregnant woman in the house is something I want to avoid!


Especialy with open top tanks.. 

If you search ebay or any other used stuff offered on the net.. You might find one of those small regulators for disposable co2 cartridges.. Many people into nano start with this and go bigger in the end and sell the mini stuff.. That could be a affordable way to find out if it is anything you like.. Almost any reputable brand has such a nano co2 set, like dennerle, jbl etc.


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## ian_m (5 Sep 2016)

kadoxu said:


> Also, I think the fire extinguisher is a bit too tall for the space I have (I still have to measure it to be sure).


Have a look at Sodastream bottles, much much smaller that FE's so will fit a much smaller space.


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## rebel (5 Sep 2016)

Also ADA has a scented co2 set. No need to reed diffusers in ya haus.


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## kadoxu (5 Sep 2016)

zozo said:


> Many people into nano start with this and go bigger in the end and sell the mini stuff..


I'll probably get something that gives me enough flexibility to change the CO2 source by just buying an adapter.



ian_m said:


> Have a look at Sodastream bottles, much much smaller that FE's so will fit a much smaller space.


These are interesting and just about the size that can fit where I want it. I've seen a youtube video of someone refilling them from a bigger CO2 bottle.



rebel said:


> Also ADA has a scented co2 set. No need to reed diffusers in ya haus.


Too much of a risk with a pregnant woman...


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## zozo (5 Sep 2016)

kadoxu said:


> These are interesting and just about the size that can fit where I want it. I've seen a youtube video of someone refilling them from a bigger CO2 bottle.



Is also a common practise with paintball, they use co2 too..  Also could be an option if you like that. Paintball bottles are available in different sizes and widely offered. Addapters you need are out there to fit regulators to them and also filling addapters for paintball bottles. That's what these guys do all the time, refilling their bottle  I believe sodastream bottle and paintball bottle both have a different thread than the DIN on EU co2 bottles. You need addapters..


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## zozo (6 Sep 2016)

Here you have a nice one, seeing the prices it is tempting, also for the small paintball bottles. As you see they  also brew beer with paintball equipment..
http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Adapter-CO2-regulator-to-Paintball-Tank-Adapter_p_1122.html


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## kadoxu (6 Sep 2016)

zozo said:


> Here you have a nice one, seeing the prices it is tempting, also for the small paintball bottles. As you see they  also brew beer with paintball equipment..
> http://www.homebrewing.org/The-Adapter-CO2-regulator-to-Paintball-Tank-Adapter_p_1122.html


You had me on "they also brew beer"! 

Some of UKAPS sponsors also sell adapters for it. CO2 Supermarket and CO2 Art sell adapters for Sodastream and for Paintball bottles.

I've been looking into a few options, I still have to do my math to decide on the best CO2 source option to fit my needs. As for the hardware, best case scenario I'll get an used CO2 set this week, worst case scenario I'll have to wait a couple of weeks from a few things coming from China... lol


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## kadoxu (6 Sep 2016)

just want to share my research on CO2 source prices with you guys:




Note that Fire Extinguisher, Paintball and Sodastream costs are for refills only, the initial bottle costs are not considered, since they are supposed to last a really long time (or regularly replaced)...

a 2Kg Fire Extinguisher can be refilled for £10 to £15 in a local store (£5-£7.5 per Kg).
a 20Oz Paintball canister refill usually costs £3 to £10, in a local store or paintball site (£5.29 to £17.64 per Kg).
3x 390g CO2 Welding bottles cost £29.99 on Ebay (£25.63 per Kg... if you buy only one, the cost goes up a bit)
A 390g Sodastream bottle refill costs £11.99 at Argos (£30.74 per Kg... I didn't look at any other stores that sell sodastream, because I don't have any nearby)
And so on...

So, since the Fire Extinguisher is too big and the nearest paintball site is half an hour away, my best bet is either Welding bottles or Sodastream... and I read something about needing to be really careful with welding bottles when they are near empty, so I'll probably go for Sodastream. Just need to do some more research on it!


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## zozo (6 Sep 2016)

Ok thanks, good to know..  I'm also still in the phase of doing math.. When i restarted this hobby again last year i sterted straight away with high tech. It's frustrating.  Now i have another low tech, but i'm so used to excesive plantgrowth it kinda hurts sitting and looking at a slow growing low tech. It agonizingly slow if you compare it... It gives me some kind of cold turkey.. I'm very much thinking to get some doping and boost the tank with a paintball brewery to get more plant mass faster and go back to low tech again...

Dunno yet, on the other hand i think that would be cheating and the low tech gods will never forgive me..  And have other plans to, which actualy need to do first.. So i'm kinda with you on that feeling.

Beware what you getting yourself into..


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## LondonDragon (26 Sep 2016)

kadoxu said:


> So, since the Fire Extinguisher is too big


a 2kg bottle should fit in most cabinets!!


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## kadoxu (26 Sep 2016)

LondonDragon said:


> a 2kg bottle should fit in most cabinets!!


This is a very special case... I don't have a cabinet...  I have the tank in a small coffee table, which is about 40cm high.
I had to put the sodastream canister almost at a 45 degree angle because after fitting the adapter and the regulator, it wouldn't fit in.


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## k3ch0ng (6 Oct 2016)

What would last longer, 60L Sodastream or DIY 1kg acid + 1kg soda, as I think the refill is roughly the same price ?


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## kadoxu (6 Oct 2016)

A Sodastream cannister has 390g of CO2... 

If you do the math from this thread http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-co2-kit-for-acid-citric-and-baking-soda.30003/
(aproximate values)
1Kg of Soda + 769g Citric Acid = 528g of CO2

Meaning, you'll get more gas from the DIY version...


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## darrensp (6 Oct 2016)

Can you not put your fe somewhere else in the room? and hide the hose under carpet or behind wood trim?


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## kadoxu (6 Oct 2016)

darrensp said:


> Can you not put your fe somewhere else in the room? and hide the hose under carpet or behind wood trim?


Nope...


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## Aqua360 (6 Oct 2016)

I got the sodastream kit from co2 art a while back, for like £89, and it was well worth it. 

i've considered the DIY options etc, but personally I'd recommend saving and getting something like that, as it pretty much gives you everything, including solenoid; and is top quality as well


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## kadoxu (7 Oct 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> I got the sodastream kit from co2 art a while back, for like £89, and it was well worth it.
> 
> i've considered the DIY options etc, but personally I'd recommend saving and getting something like that, as it pretty much gives you everything, including solenoid; and is top quality as well


I completely agree. And it also gives you a lot more peace of mind.


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## BexHaystack (12 Oct 2016)

kadoxu said:


> This is a very special case... I don't have a cabinet...  I have the tank in a small coffee table, which is about 40cm high.
> I had to put the sodastream canister almost at a 45 degree angle because after fitting the adapter and the regulator, it wouldn't fit in.


Does that mean you went with the sodastream setup in the end, how are you finding it
? How tall are the canister and regulator together, I am thinking of using this system too but also have limited space...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## kadoxu (12 Oct 2016)

BexHaystack said:


> Does that mean you went with the sodastream setup in the end, how are you finding it
> ? How tall are the canister and regulator together, I am thinking of using this system too but also have limited space...


Yes I did. I like it very much. 

The canister itself is around 35cm high, then you need to add an adapter and the regulator. I didn't measure it with everything, but since I got a regulator for horizontal canisters (just to try and keep it shorter) it should be around 50cm high in total.

In the end I was able to put everything I needed below the coffee table: CO2 system, electronics, external filter, and a box with a bunch of stuff I need on a daily/weekly basis (like ferts, tools, fish food, etc.).

I can take a few measurements and pics later today if you want.


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## BexHaystack (12 Oct 2016)

That would be great thanks!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## kadoxu (13 Oct 2016)

The Sodastream cannister with the adapter and the horizontal regulator is 45cm.


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## micheljq (13 Oct 2016)

Sorry to intrude and for the crazy idea.

What would happen if someone would drop a little baking soda and citric acid directly in the tank each day?  could it be dangerous?

Michel.


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## ian_m (13 Oct 2016)

micheljq said:


> What would happen if someone would drop a little baking soda and citric acid directly in the tank each day? could it be dangerous?


Yes you would end up with a tank full of sodium citrate. Excess sodium has no place in an aquarium.


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## micheljq (13 Oct 2016)

Ok thanks, i will forget that one lol.


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