# algae and algae spores in filter?



## Mitchel (24 Jul 2022)

I can't control the algae anymore so I've decided to break down the scape and start all over.
But there are also algae and algae spores in the filter. Is it wise to buy other filter material?
cheers, Mitch


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## _Maq_ (24 Jul 2022)

There are some generally acknowledged truths about algae:
(1) Algae spores are ever present and you cannot sterilize your tank.
(2) Algae are ever present in any tank, but invasive growth of any algae is a sign of some kind of imbalance. 
(3) If you are about to follow the same methods, you are quite likely to suffer the same troubles, incl. algae.
(4) Organic pollutants seem to be an important trigger for algae growth. There are methods to keep organic pollution lower.
---
As for your filter material, you can disinfect it by hydrogen peroxide bath. Also, drying it on direct sunlight would help to minimize future infestation. Such a precaution is a good thing, but see above No. (3). 
(Some foams and plastics suffer in H2O2 bath. Sometimes it's better to get new ones.)


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## Andy Pierce (24 Jul 2022)

@Mitchel what have you tried to get algae under control?  The usual best first step is to reduce lighting for both intensity and duration.


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## tiger15 (24 Jul 2022)

Yes, you can sterilize some algae spores if you apply Algaecide regularly.   It’s not a one time deal, as you can introduce new spores from new fish, new plants, tap water and even fall out from air for certain algae.  If you follow Excel instruction to dose regularly, you can eliminate BBA and a few other algae, but not all algae.   There is not just one but many algae, source and causes.  No Algaecide is full spectrum effective against all algae, short of the nuclear option of chlorination to kill everything.


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Algae spores are ever present and you cannot sterilize your tank.


Hi @_Maq_ & Everyone,

Use of a UV-C sterilizer will kill _water-borne_ algae and fungal spores. This approach requires that the so-called 'dwell time' and UV-C dosage is optimized. No chemicals required.

JPC


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## ElleDee (24 Jul 2022)

I think the point is not that algae spores cannot be killed, but that they are constantly reintroduced from the environment, so there's not much to be gained by nuking everything and starting over with "clean" materials, especially if you haven't corrected the underlying issue that caused the algae to be such a problem to begin with. Sometimes starting over is helpful, but only if you adjust your methods as well. Spending effort on not contaminating your do-over tank with the spores from your previous failure is not a great use of time.

But I take the point about proper UV is a fix for water born algae. Or rather, I have heard it's great for green water, but I don't have personal experience with it. Same with erythromycin and BGA.


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## tiger15 (24 Jul 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @_Maq_ & Everyone,
> 
> Use of a UV-C sterilizer will kill _water-borne_ algae and fungal spores. This approach requires that the so-called 'dwell time' and UV-C dosage is optimized. No chemicals required.
> 
> JPC


Even though it’s non chemical, UV triggers formation of ozone that kills ick, fungus and algae spores, so its effect is equivalent peroxide.   I spray peroxide on exposed plants and surfaces when I drain down the tank in WC.


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

tiger15 said:


> Even though it’s non chemical, UV triggers formation of ozone that kills ick, fungus and algae spores, so its effect is equivalent peroxide.


Hi @tiger15 

Yes, I was aware of what you've pointed out. But, thanks a lot for adding it for the benefit of everyone.

In order to get the desired effect from UV, it's perhaps worth stressing that it needs to be UV-C (nominally 254 nm wavelength).

JPC


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## _Maq_ (24 Jul 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Use of a UV-C sterilizer will kill _water-borne_ algae and fungal spores. This approach requires that the so-called 'dwell time' and UV-C dosage is optimized.





tiger15 said:


> UV triggers formation of ozone that kills ick, fungus and algae spores


I'm trying to employ common sense; if I'm wrong, please, correct me:
I tend to count algae under the term "microbes". I admit it's imprecise but my point is that all these small organisms form a single whole which effectively *runs our tanks*. Do I want to kill them? Definitely not. Do I know a way to kill some and not to harm others? Hardly so.
I wonder how can UV-C lamp kill only algae and harmful fungi and not to kill "good" microbes, par example nitrifying ones. They live mostly settled, that's true. But majority of algae in our tanks are benthic or epiphytic, i.e. growing on surfaces. UV lamp may possibly harm them, but so it'll harm beneficiary microbes, too.
Based on such grounds, UV is not a part of my (modest) arsenal. Am I mistaken?


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> I wonder how can UV-C lamp kill only algae and harmful fungi and not to kill "good" microbes, par example nitrifying ones.


Hi @_Maq_ 

My understanding is that nitrifying bacteria preferentially multiply in the absence of light. For that reason, the classic canister filter is an ideal environment in which they can flourish. At least, that was the thinking a few years ago! They colonize the biological filter and will not be exposed to the UV-C. I only switch my UV-C sterilizer ON for a few hours or minutes at a time. In short, I only use the UV-C sterilizer when the advantages of using it outwieigh the disadvantages. Of recent, I'm not dependent on nitrifying bacteria. I am letting plants take over the job of water purification. More on that topic at a later stage.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

Mitchel said:


> I can't control the algae anymore so I've decided to break down the scape and start all over.


Hi @Mitchel 

With which species of algae and/or cyanobacteria have you had problems? Perhaps you could attach some photos?

JPC


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## _Maq_ (24 Jul 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> My understanding is that nitrifying bacteria preferentially multiply in the absence of light. For that reason, the classic canister filter is an ideal environment in which they can flourish.


I've read that majority of nitrification occurs in the sediment, but also _in the water column_. When reading papers on this topic, light does not seem to be of scientists' concern. So, I take it that these microbes are only moderately inhibited by light.
I've got no filters in my tanks yet I can detect nitrification by pH moves where bicarbonates are low. I regulate it by changing the NH4 : NO3 ratio. Interestingly, nitrification runs well in my tanks where pH is well below 6.


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## Mitchel (24 Jul 2022)

Andy Pierce said:


> @Mitchel what have you tried to get algae under control?  The usual best first step is to reduce lighting for both intensity and duration.





jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Mitchel
> 
> With which species of algae and/or cyanobacteria have you had problems? Perhaps you could attach some photos?
> 
> JPC


The tank was in great shape and healty. But I had a long time hospitalization. When I got home, everything was covered in algae. And I just don't want to spend a lot of time cleaning up the mess.
That's why I'm going to start all over. Tank is empty now.

I think I will let the filtermedium out to dry in the sun for now and based on the comments I can conclude that it's save enough to start over with the old media, except de foam ones.
Txs for all the answers everyone 👍


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> I've read that majority of nitrification occurs in the sediment, but also _in the water column_. When reading papers on this topic, light does not seem to be of scientists' concern. So, I take it that these microbes are only moderately inhibited by light.



Hi @_Maq_ 

The following paper deals with photoinhibition of nitrifying bacteria. Hope you can track it down. I was hoping to get you a direct link but was unsuccessful.

J. Gen. App!. Microbiol., 30, 151-166 (1984)
PHOTOINHIBITION AND RECOVERY OF NHOXIDIZING
BACTERIA AND NOTOXIDIZING
BACTERIA
TAKAHITO YOSHIOKA AND YATSUKA SAIJO
Water Research Institute, Nagoya University, Chikusa-ku,
Nagoya 464, Japan
(Received March 15, 1984)

Good luck!

JPC


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## _Maq_ (24 Jul 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Good luck!


https://www.researchgate.net/public...xidizing_bacteria_and_NO2--oxidizing_bacteria
The paper is truly _ancient_. It was quite amazing to see what progress the science has made since then.


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## jaypeecee (24 Jul 2022)

Hi @_Maq_

Yes, I know it's ancient. But, does that mean the information that it contains is no longer correct? In some respects, I'm also 'ancient' but I'd like to think that some of my knowledge is no less true today than it was 40+ years ago! 

JPC


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## Nick potts (24 Jul 2022)

UV is used a lot in ponds, also many marine and tropical fishkeepers employ them with good effect. The bacteria we need in our tanks are clearly not affected by UV sterilisers the way we use them or we would be seeing evidence of this. 

They treat the water from the water column which is not home to much in the way of nitrifying bacteria, if it were then the people doing 90/100% water changes would be seeing issues also.


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## _Maq_ (24 Jul 2022)

@jaypeecee , it is clear that since then the scientist can identify bacteria/archaea with much better certainty. Additionally, many new nitrogen dissimilators have been discovered, several novel pathways of nitrogen cycling.
I haven't made any review in this respect but I've got the impression that recent papers do not care much for photosensivity of these microbes. I certainly may be mistaken.


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## jaypeecee (25 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> ...it is clear that since then the scientist can identify bacteria/archaea with much better certainty.



Hi @_Maq_

And, at least one scientist was able to take advantage of such advances and he happened to be a fishkeeper - none other than Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec. Thank you, Dr Tim! A round of applause to you! 

JPC


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## jaypeecee (25 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> The paper is truly _ancient_.


Hi @_Maq_

Here's an up-to-date paper but we'll have to settle for the Abstract only right now. Even then, it is very useful.









						Influence of photoinhibition on nitrification by ammonia-oxidizing microorganisms in aquatic ecosystems - Reviews in Environmental Science and Bio/Technology
					

Photoinhibition of ammonia oxidation occurs widely in aquatic environments and could suppress the nitrification rate, lead to the composition variation of inorganic nitrogen and influence the stability of aquatic ecosystems. Both ammonia-oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and archaea are sensitive to...




					link.springer.com
				




JPC


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## John q (25 Jul 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> we'll have to settle for the Abstract only right now


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## _Maq_ (25 Jul 2022)

https://www.researchgate.net/public...xidizing_microorganisms_in_aquatic_ecosystems
Thank you. I'm about to read it.


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## jaypeecee (25 Jul 2022)

Hi @John q 

Thanks very much indeed.

None of my usual document sources had this document available.

Thanks again.

JPC


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## _Maq_ (25 Jul 2022)

@jaypeecee , the paper has rather corrected my opinion. For obvious reasons, the authors stressed the importance of photoinhibition in oceans, with 'unlimited' depth. Canister filters provide perfect darkness, so it's a solution to the problem. Yet I have no filters and nitrification is running just fine in the substrate. So, it seems that it occurs in a layer where oxygen still penetrates but light does not.
In any case, thanks for sharing.


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## jaypeecee (25 Jul 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> In any case, thanks for sharing.


Hi @_Maq_ 

There is an embarrassing irony in all of this. Somewhere in my head I had a distant memory of having read about nitrifying bacteria's sensitivity to light. But I couldn't track it down. It turns out that I'd mentioned it in an article that I wrote four years ago. And that article referenced the very paper that @John q has provided in his post above!

JPC


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