# Sick fish



## maanse (25 Aug 2011)

Hi guys,

Im hoping someone can help me out on this....

Basically, over the last 3-4 months ive been having a few problems in the tank with regards to fish (white cottony growths from mouth, white ulcer looking patches on the backs) and after doing some research i concluded that my tank had columnaris (which affected almost all of the tank). The last 6 weeks it appeared that i had manager to eradicate it as none of the infected fish had survived and all the other fish seemed fine. Today however i noticed that one of my neon tetras has the white cotton like growth coming from the mouth and one of my kribs is constantly hiding in the bottom corner of the tank gasping. Ive just done a large water change and have tested the water using the usual test but i seem to be drawing a blank. 

Test results:
Ammo - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 30
PH - 7.2

Any suggestions on what could be causing it and how to treat it - bearing in mind i have used every commercially available medication and some not so available to get rid of it and none of it worked.

Nothing new was introduced to the tank leading up to the initial outbreak apart from changing brand of tap water conditioner and changing supplier of KNO3 powders.


----------



## clonitza (26 Aug 2011)

Can you post a picture with your tank?
What fish food are you using?

Mike


----------



## bogman (26 Aug 2011)

i  would not be so sure that the problem is columnaris, just curious  what meds have you used? from the external symptoms you have described i would treat with esha 2000, it is, in my experience one of the best general treatments for fungal and bacterial infections on the body,  but you need to try source the root cause as to why the fish are becoming ill, in a healthy aquarium small knocks and scrapes on a fish should heal without becoming infected and requiring the need for medications


----------



## roadmaster (26 Aug 2011)

maanse said:
			
		

> Hi guys,
> 
> Im hoping someone can help me out on this....
> 
> ...




Were test result's after the water change or before? How many total fish are in your 200 L?
When medication's have failed me, I have in the past emptied the tank of fish and let the tank run without fish for a month or more. I used activated carbon and weekly water changes during this time  and at the end of this period,slowly re=stocked the tank.
If you have plenty of plant's,,then re-cycling is not  needed with slow stocking.
If not,,then you might want to feed bio-filter during this period or borrow some seed material from disease free existing tank (perhap's a friend?) after this period.
Does not alway's work, but many parasites and or pathogen's can't exist for long without host fish to infect and it beat's throwing dollar's in medication's into a tank to treat the unknown.
just my two cent's.


----------



## maanse (26 Aug 2011)

Ok ive got a few questions there to answer ill try and get through them all.... As for the pic i will try and get one uploaded a bit later. For food im using a variety of flake, freeze dried blood worm, and frozen food (mixed tropical stuff) and 2 varieties of sinking pellets for the catfish and loaches.

It may well not be columnaris, the only reason i thought that is because of the cotton wool type growths on the mouth and the patches around the dorsal fin (saddle back) as for the cause ive searched the tank for anything dead or rotting and come up with nothing, i don't think im over feeding - if anything i think at the moment i may be under feeding.

The test results posted were taken before the water change but i have since done them again and they are the same, the test kit is the API master test kit and is less than a month old and kept in a cool dark place.

As for removing the fish, i don't really know where i should move them too because i don't want to risk infecting any of my other tanks.

Total fish in the tank now = 12 (the gasping krib was dead this morning).

Also i upgraded the filter about 3 weeks ago from an internal fluval U4 to an external 1200lp/h. and seeded it from the old filter.


----------



## clonitza (26 Aug 2011)

Stress for various reasons, maybe the tap water had something, undersized filtration, some altered frozen, live food and they get sick. Try to avoid the frozen food for a while and add activated carbon in the filter for the next 48 hours.

The only med I've tested in the community tank that's not affecting the plants and with some results if the illness wasn't too evolved was Easy Life MultiCura, you could try it but only after you remove the old meds with activated carbon. 

I also did treatments with JBL Fungol or JBL Furanol 2 both mixed with JBL Ektol Crystal but only in quarantine tanks with good results.

I'd advice you to fill the fluval filter only with bio media like siporax, eheim substrat pro, seachem matrix etc.

Mike


----------



## maanse (26 Aug 2011)

Well I stopped using the fluval when I upgraded to the external. As for the mess everything has been removed already using carbon and water changes. One of the meds I 'acquired' was furanol 2 apart from turning the water yellow it didn't seem to have an effect.

If there is something in the tank causing the stress I am quite willing to strip and scrub the tank, the only issues I have with that are what to do with the fish whilst I do it and what to scrub the tank with. As it's bank holiday this weekend it's the ideal time to do it because I have a few days off work. Will the bacteria in the filter alone sustain the fish in the tank??

I'm not sure it's the live food or any other food causing the problem, or the tap water for that matter as I use them in all of my tanks.... I only seem to have this problem in one tank....


----------



## roadmaster (27 Aug 2011)

Could place fish in twenty gallon plastic tote,or tub with filter  from your tank and heater.
Should be enough bacterial activity on filter media to support twelve small ?fish but would monitor tub for ammonia  daily and perform water change as needed.
This will allow you to scrub down tank with Bleach /water solution and toss substrate and or replace, or boil along with decor  and perhap's plant's could go into a bucket of dechlorinated water.
Problem with this approach in my view is that if fishes are harboring some pathogen,disease,they will or could,,carry it back into the tank and a lot of work has been for naught.
Is why I stated in previous post that i would remove fish and re-stock after letting tank run for a month or more with just plant's.
I would consider euthanizing fishes I removed from this tank as cruel as it may sound,but that's just me.


----------



## clonitza (27 Aug 2011)

> Well I stopped using the fluval when I upgraded to the external.


When have you done this and how?


----------



## maanse (27 Aug 2011)

This was done 3 weeks ago, all media from the fluvial was moved to the external, no ammonia spikes, no nitrite spikes....


----------



## clonitza (27 Aug 2011)

Trial & error mate . Let's see next:
How deep is the soil, what's its composition? When did you start the tank?


----------



## maanse (27 Aug 2011)

i had planned on stripping the tank anyway as i think the substrate is dead plus im not happy with how it looks but when this problem came along i thought id better try and solve it first.... Although i think that might be my solution.

the soil is JBL pro flora and is about 1 inch deep, topped with fine sand at about 3/4 inch deep. the tank has been set up for 18 months now.

Its not overly planted now but is fairly planted, ive been using yeast based CO2 for the last 6 months although im about to scrap it (BGA is a nightmare with diy co2) as for ferts im using the DIY TPN+ (3) from here to dose if that helps. http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm


----------



## clonitza (27 Aug 2011)

You could reset it and before you fill it again with gravel you can try another treatment if there are any meds left.
I'd stay away from fine sand in a tank as big as this one.


----------



## RudeDogg1 (27 Aug 2011)

Nitrates abit high


----------



## maanse (27 Aug 2011)

RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> Nitrates abit high




Since when???


----------

