# Water Change Methods (Considerations For Debate)



## Paulo Soares (23 Jan 2015)

*For Planted Aquariums With Estimative Index*
Good day,

First let me tell you that since I embrace this hobby and as time goes by I always question my self some theorys and methods that are taken as functional and it seem also cientically proven without question.

Well.. since I remember myself of being in this world that I always question and question time after time things I deal with. It´s in my nature.
And so this is the reason of this thread. Questioning!

Everyone knows what is a Water Change (In Portugal we called it “TPA”)
As you know it is being accepted over the years the so called method of 50% weekly water change.
So, I would like to leave my opinion and share with you my thoughts about this method.

I believe that we should do WC-“Water Change” of 15 / 20 % three times a week.  This would be perfect. But doing this becomes almost impraticable for many of us due to our lives, so I accept for myself a value not inferior of 30% twice a week instead those 50 % once.

Firstly, because very few fish tolerate sudden changes of 50% and the parameters of the water. I think that we all agree in this matter. IN a long term we are compromising them.
Sudden Changes and significant amount as the 50% is in my opinion too big.

And I am not only talking about the thermal issue. This in itself is a cute problem we all deal with. How to maintain and stabilise the same temperature with levels so high of WC..

Then we run a full week with nitrates levels and others rising due to their own biological filtering right? I think that also here there will be no doubts. As well as the level of contamination, and nitrogenous fertilizers that are accumulating during the week.

The PH itself eventually suffer a enormous change with a weekly process running than in a process of bi- or tri-weekly water change.

As we know by water analyzes from the city hall or another institute of our area, a WC of 50% will remove too many trace elements presented in that current water that the 50% refitting will never match. So we´re gonna have too many losses.

Further, we do not know dates of water treatment by the company and changes that it suffers, so the risk of 50% WC is incredibly higher than a 30% or 20% if something wrong occurs in water of the network. And i´ve seen too many post of colleagues that after a WC of 50% their tanks suddenly become totally unstable and with fish deads, or sudden onset of Diatoms as the most common cause that I perceive. Why this occurrence happen so many times?

The tank is stabilized and suddenly after a WC crumble? ( ... )

More: With two or more WC instead of the 50% I have no need to turn off the filter and destroy bacteria and repeat the cycle. Only this gain for me is already more than valuable.

I dare to say that even for the plants a change of 50% is not beneficial. The higher plants goes from a submerged stage, to a re-emerged once a week, and this sum of Out/In – Emerge for many scholars results in the so-called "Dyeoff" part of plants (leaves that fall, shaken due to contacts etc) which in turn will lead to an increase of decomposition of organic matter.

Another problem with the 50% WC is the risk (and occurs almost certainly) of rummaging to mcuh the substrate and release millions of bacteria in one fell swoop to the little water that is inside.

And even the fact of plants slipping/drop by not being submerged (they lose balance) certainly will damage the stem, and also revolve the substrate.

So what is preferable? Make a small change and thus ensure that the changes do not converge much or change 50% and differ everything?

The ideal for me, will be to make small changes to water quite often. 15% Per cent every other day, but in the light of our lives being complicated I apply the 30% twice a week.

My concern is not to change the water of the aquarium so drastically and minimize the risk of significant changes in water chemistry.

If we make small changes of water, the 20 or 30% that I have spoken, it would be necessary that the main water or that already in aquario were in very poor condition for any tangible significant differences within the aquarium. (All mixed up)

I see this as in nature. Rivers are constantly renewing the water in so many different ways, such as rain, snow, source of water, glaciar, or the WATER CICLE.

In a tank we have a water closed circuit so how can we bring a more closer or approach form as it is in nature? Performing more WC I think.

For instance: If Sunday I change 20%, than on Tuesday  another 20, than on  Friday more 20 and so on… from the last partial change to the new in each time i´m not making significant changes in the parameters of the water and so she will be always equal and the same over and over. Always quite new with few changes.

Even in a mature tank if we do more WC we certainly are delaying the final day.. Eutrophication.

This is my opinion and as a member of the forum I share for exchange of ideas.
It is for this reason that we're here.

I see more but much more beneficials in frequent Water Changes than the older "50 Method"…

Compliments


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## ian_m (23 Jan 2015)

Paulo Soares said:


> Firstly, because very few fish tolerate sudden changes of 50% and the parameters of the water


There is no proof at all of this. Many people change 50% or greater of their tank water, straight  unheated from the tap and as long as you dose dechlorinator (for a whole tank not 50%), so as to not kill filter bacteria, fish don't care. In fact quite often the fish will swim in and out and play in the cold incoming water, try it and you will see. MY tank goes from 26C to 18C if I put hose from cold tap straight in after 50% change, do fish care, of course not.

People have made/used partial water change devices for years. Usually some form of overflow and water inlet valve & dechlorinator pump. Basically dose dechlorinator, open inlet valve, excess water overflows into drain via overflow. Have to be very very careful in design so that if overflow blocks you don't over flow the tank. Biggest issue with this is it does nothing to remove the detritus settled in the bottom of the tank and settled on plants, that can only really be removed by physically vacuuming and shaking it off. These people with auto water changes end up with piles of detritus collecting, rotting and producing algae and bacteria blooms, which they can't understand why "as they change 50% water per week so must be OK" 

So why complicated things, if dosing EI and using CO2, 50% change once a week, warm incoming water if you think YOUR fish will have issues and just get on with it. No need to faff multiple times a week.


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## naughtymoose (23 Jan 2015)

Paulo, I think that your points are good, but will only be manageable for a slim majority. 

In Utopia, it would be great- constant partial water changes would help to remove all the unused byproducts.

I don't think your post is trying to complicate things, but trying to question what would be 'best' in an 'ideal' world!


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## ian_m (23 Jan 2015)

naughtymoose said:


> but trying to question what would be 'best' in an 'ideal' world!


In an ideal world, constant water replenishment with warmed, remineralised RO water would be ideal, with once a week substrate clean and plant shaking. Done.


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## naughtymoose (23 Jan 2015)

So, Paulo is asking what the next best thing would be.

I've bought a 100L slimline water butt in preparation for my 240L Roma (the missus has almost finished the decorating, just waiting on a floor repair and the new carpet, and then it will start!) and a heater. I was planning on a 50% change as per EI instructions, but, like Paulo, I question whether emptying half of my tank in one go would be sensible for the livestock.

The remineralisation issue also concerns me. I have an HMA filter unit; does it remove any of the 'good' stuff from the water? Should I be replacing/adding anything?


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## ceg4048 (23 Jan 2015)

Paulo Soares said:


> Firstly, because very few fish tolerate sudden changes of 50% and the parameters of the water.


No we don't agree. I do 90% water changes weekly and have never had a problem. There are really only two parameters to worry about - temperature and "possibly" KH.

Cheers,


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## Paulo Soares (23 Jan 2015)

Evening all and thanks for replying
,
None aproach "*Eutrophication*"... but again, i´m studing this for quite a while..

You can find the definition of it in Wikipedia.

What i conclude of all stuff i´ve read about Eutrophication in Aquariuns (specially college studys -if you want to chek just google it)

Regardless of the type of substrate (and I say this because none is preventive), the dirt that will be forming in the aquarium ends up with a large part of it be diluted in water, and these almost microscopic suspended materials tend to go to the fund (cause higher density) and will be hiding by vacant spaces between the grains of the substrate and stop only at the bottom (glass) and starts to accumulating and accumulating contaminating day after day the substrate until it reaches such a level that enter the Eutrophication process and it´s the end of the tank.

As a lake or a river, this is what happens in an aquarium, with the aggravating circumstance that here in contrary to nature there is no current water, we don´t have the river flowing.. Neither the land (substrate) to convert detrits as in nature the soils.

Therefore when an aquarium reaches this point what is the solution? Start again.

So, this only confirms that we must not only carry out more WC or more frequent in such a way to eliminate this dirt in the water and also siphon the bottom by extracting the maximum possible dirt on the surface of the substrate that with the time degrades, and advancing ever more toward the bottom of the aquario.

Doing more WC we certainly promote a much longer living to the aquarium avoiding and preventing the end of it. 

Regards


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## parotet (23 Jan 2015)

I do 2x 40-50% water changes weekly, as I can find two moments along the week separated by 3 days in which I have all the time I need to do whatever I want... my high tech tank can really survive with 1x WC but if I am home I prefer to do it twice a week. When I mess a little bit with the substrate (replanting for example and major changes in hardscape) I try to fill my water bucket/container twice, that means that I change 45 liters in a 65 liters tank (70% WC). Needed? Probably not but it's not really a pain to do so as this is my largest tank and I noticed that plants are fish (not demanding ones) are happy with this.

IME temperature is quite important (I try to be add water which is +/- 2 ºC compared to water tank). I use tap water with a few drops of dechlorinator and adjust the temperature using an old thermometer. I did not followed this rule once and my shrimps (had no fish at that moment) seemed a bit disturbed, although they finally recovered.

Regarding eutrophication, this can help to understand the concept in general terms and in aquaria
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/nutrients-and-eutrophication.32018/

Jordi


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## ian_m (23 Jan 2015)

Paulo Soares said:


> until it reaches such a level that enter the Eutrophication process and it´s the end of the tank.


Not sure this is right. I ran a tank, with sand substrate, from 2003-2012 and plants grew (slowly & badly) and fish survived and only water changed occasionally. No end of tank there.


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## tmiravent (23 Jan 2015)

Hi Paulo,
interesting post. 

I tend to watch my tank like a 'washing machine', near a water point and waste water point.  
In this case you can build whatever system you believe or work better for your tank!
If 50% weekly works fine, why not? 
if 50% every two days is good for the ecosystem why not? 
i also remember seeing a guy who has a continuous water changing system with an overflow... 

But i see that many of us has the aquariums n the living rooms, without water point near or even waste...
In that case it would be a pain in the a** to make a water change every two days...
Imagine how many marriages would be ruined with that...

I try to make my main tank 3x week (witch i believe it's perfect for that specific tank), 
but sometimes only one time (if i don't have time or energy to do it)... 
always without stress
cheers


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## sciencefiction (23 Jan 2015)

Paulo Soares said:


> Firstly, because very few fish tolerate sudden changes of 50% and the parameters of the water. I think that we all agree in this matter. IN a long term we are compromising them.
> Sudden Changes and significant amount as the 50% is in my opinion too big.



I have to disagree simply because I've been doing 50% water changes weekly for years with great results as far as fish health goes. They absolutely don't mind it one bit.  They not just tolerate it, they are healthier for it but I can't compare to let's say 20% three times a week as an alternative. So I can't say from experience it's better to do one large weekly compared to several small ones but I can say that 50% weekly is a good way to go if you care about the fish, plants won't mind it too.
I once did a regime of about 5l daily on a 60l tank which is about 8% and that worked out well, stats stayed stable too but I had just one fry in it which I wanted to keep alive and apart from the fact that the fry lives to be an adult, I have no other experience. But if one has the time to spread out the water changes, then I see no reason why not.
But I think the easier you make it for yourself within the limits the fish and plants have, the longer you are going to keep up with it, so smaller and more regular water changes sounds terrible for my lifestyle.

I think the issues some people have with big water changes is because of low Kh to start with and big water changes swing the stats to uncomfortable level for fish, which eventually drops again during the time without water change, so fish are subjected to changes all the time.  But if you've got medium or hard water with a readable Kh, there's no issues whatsoever doing any amount of water changes.



Paulo Soares said:


> The PH itself eventually suffer a enormous change with a weekly process running than in a process of bi- or tri-weekly water change.



The more often and the bigger water changes one does, the less change in conditions during or days after the water change, so fish are not affected by it at all.   The longer without water changes, then eventually tap and tank water will differ to a considerable extent, so water changes may cause swings in stats.
  With 50% weekly I suffer absolutely no change in either  weekly readings of TDS,  Ph, Kh, Gh, etc... The only difference would be nutrient level for plants which one can replace after the water change. So I would presume smaller and regular water changes would have the same effect exactly as you are constantly matching the tank water with the incoming water, not letting the tank going into its own "chemical world".

I think the only thing I watch during a water change is temperature so I don't know if a fast drop would affect the fish but some here say that doesn't matter either, although I have no idea.  However, it's very easy for me not to alter the temperature as I pour in the water via a hose directly from the tap after I adjust the water temperature.



Paulo Soares said:


> Further, we do not know dates of water treatment by the company and changes that it suffers, so the risk of 50% WC is incredibly higher than a 30% or 20% if something wrong occurs in water of the network. And i´ve seen too many post of colleagues that after a WC of 50% their tanks suddenly become totally unstable and with fish deads, or sudden onset of Diatoms as the most common cause that I perceive. Why this occurrence happen so many times?



I have 't had such a problem ever. But I can't rule out a deadly chemical, one never knows... . However, the examples that it may happen for tanks to become "totally unstable and fish dying" is very subjective because it could be due to totally different reasons.

People could have done a large water change in tanks that haven't had one in ages and nothing to do with the water company. Obviously such regime causes big swings in stats during a water change, possibly from low Ph where the ammonia is non-toxic to a higher one when the ammonium converts to ammonia, which is a possibility but even without this the swing itself may not be tolerable. Non-typical for one's tap water chemicals like ammonia, nitrite, chloramines can be avoided with using a good dechlorinator regularly like prime, and an relevant dose of it.  If there are other chemicals, I would be worried for my own health, not just the fish.

Sudden onset of Diatoms according to "me"  is also due to sudden elevated ammonia.



Paulo Soares said:


> The tank is stabilized and suddenly after a WC crumble? ( ... )



It's like me going to Africa. I am "stabilized" in humid cool conditions in Ireland and suddenly I have to endure dry very hot temperature in Africa.  But even if my ancestors originated from Africa, I had never lived in these conditions myself for generations so I've lost the tolerance. It's not about good or bad conditions, it's about what I am used to tolerating. In that case I may get a heat stroke in Africa or a heart attack and die.  But if live through it, I'll adjust again eventually.
But the point is, don't let Ireland become Africa weekly and then wonder why switching your tank through countries each weak causes "shocks". The point is to keep tank and tap almost the "same" whichever way is easier for you and makes more sense.


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## DanielC03 (24 Jan 2015)

I have a tank with Lilaeopsis, Echinodorus, Alternanthera and Myriophyllum where I am raising discus and do 50% WC daily and plants seem pleased with their routine..


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## PARAGUAY (24 Jan 2015)

Paulo when I switched to EI trying to follow the w/c regime as advised the- 50%end of week, because of commitments,time etc,I inquired with John at APF about several partial smaller w/changes over the week. The info back was thats fine do more the merrier but at least 50% in total over the week, suiting myself I do 3 -30% when I can ,not in photoperiod though.


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## chandler (24 Jan 2015)

ceg4048 said:


> No we don't agree. I do 90% water changes weekly and have never had a problem. There are really only two parameters to worry about - temperature and "possibly" KH.
> 
> Cheers,



Clive, do you use any declorinator? I have heard that the water companies may add some excess of the bad stuff over weekends which is bad since this typically is the time when one has the time to do WC...


Skickat från min iPad med Tapatalk


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## ian_m (24 Jan 2015)

Just changed 90l out of 180l this morning, hose into water drum + prime dechlorinator. Pumped into tank after plant trimming and rearranging and substrate vacuuming, water dropped to about 18'C but now back upto 25'C. Meant to video fish swimming in incoming water but busy clearing the rather excessive mess I made on the floor....whoops.


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## parotet (24 Jan 2015)

ceg4048 said:


> No we don't agree. I do 90% water changes weekly and have never had a problem. There are really only two parameters to worry about - temperature and "possibly" KH.
> 
> Cheers,


Do you still have this 700 liters tank (not sure if it was this or even more)? Wow... That's a lot of water!!!

Jordi


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## ceg4048 (24 Jan 2015)

parotet said:


> Do you still have this 700 liters tank (not sure if it was this or even more)? Wow... That's a lot of water!!!


Yeah, I still have it. Used to be a real PITA but I've got new gear to make the removal easier. A 5 meter hose attached to the kitchen faucet makes filling a doddle.

Cheers,


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## ceg4048 (24 Jan 2015)

chandler said:


> Clive, do you use any declorinator? I have heard that the water companies may add some excess of the bad stuff over weekends which is bad since this typically is the time when one has the time to do WC...


Well I don't, typically, just out of laziness - unless I have uber-expensive fish in the tank. If so then it's very easy to squirt some into the tank during the water change.

Cheers,


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## Downhillmonkey (31 Jan 2015)

Do you really fill straight from the tap into your tank? l've been filling 25l drums at tank temperature with the recommended dose of prime for years. Am I wasting my time and money? 

Tap to tank would knock my waters changes down by half.


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## DanielC03 (31 Jan 2015)

At the entrance of the hose I have a particulate filter and activated carbon another, that allows me to sleep relaxed. The temperature difference is solved by entering the water very slowly


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## ceg4048 (31 Jan 2015)

Downhillmonkey said:


> Tap to tank would knock my waters changes down by half.


Yes, exactly, that leaves you more time for drinking beer or wine or [insert favorite beverage here].

If you're worried about temperature, and if you have a faucet with a double tap then all you have to do is to grab thermometer and set the temperature coming out of the tap to the same as the tank, or within a degre or two. Then connect the hose. If the tap is an outdoor tap, with only cold water, well then this is a no-go, but intdoor faucets work fine. As Chandler mentions just add the dechlorinator to the tank while the water is running.

Cheers,


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## Downhillmonkey (31 Jan 2015)

Whoohoo! More beer time! This hobby (job)  gets better by the day.


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## ceg4048 (31 Jan 2015)




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## Razzmatazz (2 Feb 2015)

Man I'm glad I spotted this, was just about to spend £45 on RO to fill my tank up! 
Instead I'm simply going to fill up with tap water and use prime!


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## LondonDragon (2 Feb 2015)

My nanos, water changes 3-4 times a year! lol


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## roadmaster (3 Feb 2015)

Only harm from large water changes that I have ever experienced is when the water changes prior have been infrequent.
Been doing 50% water changes for nearly 20 year's.
Raised a group of juvie Discus about the size of a bottle cap to Adult size within a year with 50% water changes three times a week.
If I'm gonna drag out the hose,drain water,I'm gonna change more than 20%.


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## Jaap (3 Feb 2015)

ceg4048 said:


> Yeah, I still have it. Used to be a real PITA but I've got new gear to make the removal easier. A 5 meter hose attached to the kitchen faucet makes filling a doddle.
> 
> Cheers,



Is there a chance you can share some pictures of your tank with us?


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## Al404 (3 Feb 2015)

i'm a little confused, i was reading some times ago of some low tech tank without water change
a thought average was about 10% per week
maybe i misunderstood the topic


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## ian_m (4 Feb 2015)

Al404 said:


> was reading some times ago of some low tech tank without water change


In low tech, plants don't produce as much waste as high tech EI, thus less water changes may be needed. Also your filter may cope fine in removing the waste as well. My mate has a low tech tank, with single T5 tube, doses EI solution occasionally at weekend, liquid carbon occasionally at weekend and changes two bucket worth 20litres out of 120litre tank every couple of months. Plants grow, slowly, no algae, fish are fine. All easy looking after.


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