# Low-tech aquarium...Update



## Tim Harrison

Hi thought I'd post an image of my rapidly maturing low-tech planted tank.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

And another


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## thingymajig

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

looks good,got any fts.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi not sure what fts means, but if it means filters only the internal Juwel Biofilter which is rated at 250 litres/hour, so filtration is minimal as is circulation.


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## JenCliBee

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

fts = full tank shot 


Looking good from the pics mate


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

The last image is as about as full as it gets, its only 55 litres that is 60cm x 30cm x 30cm.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi the full enchilada. This definitely is a FTS. Thanks for your kind comments by the way.


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## thingymajig

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

looks great nice one


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## John S

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Very nice. What is your set up?


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Looks great, how old is the scape?


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi thanks for your comments. The set up is about 6 weeks old, but I keep moving stuff around so it hasn't really had chance to settle down yet, but despite the disturbance the plants are doing very well, and need thinning. 

The set up is pretty basic:
Tank: Juwel Rekord 60, 55 litre, 60cm x 30cm x 30cm
Lighting: 2 x 24 watt T5 lighting (1 growth-lux, 1 Aqua-white) 10 hours a day with a 2 hour siesta halfway through, to replenish CO2, and to try and confuse the algae.
Filter: Internal Bio 250 litres/hour (minimum filtration and circulation), charcoal replaced with moss peat.

No added fertilizers  
No CO2

Just a couple of cm of soil based substrate (my own formula) capped by 4-5cm of 3mm sand/gravel.
A couple of pieces of bog wood, and a lot of plants and way too many fish.

Pretty much the Walstad way, with a bit of attitude.


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## spyder

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Looks great and doing well for 6 weeks of low tech although your lighting would be a little high if it is twin t5's @24w each. Even if it is, it's doing well.

Do you have any fts's of the initial planting or shortly after? Would be interested to see the difference and growth rates.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

From this to this...my low-tech tank, a work in progress. The photography is a bit suspect, I've used an old digital camera which is well past its sell by date and the only light available is the tank light. Being a newbie to this site I wasn't sure where to post this so I've also posted it in the Journals section.

I have always set up my tanks this way; admittedly though the last one I did was over 25 years ago. Once the soil based substrate is added and capped the aquarium is filled with water and planted, there really is no need to wait and wait for months and months, and to flush and re-flush. There is a tendency to get paranoid about ammonia release and all the other gubbins supposedly associated with soil based substrates, but I've never had a problem. Plants are great at balancing aquarium biochemistry in next to no time. 

The soil based substrate goes in about 1cm at the front sloping to about 2cm at the back.





Capped by 3mm sand/gravel, I've since added at least twice as much.





And then the bog wood, large pieces for immediate effect, however, things didn't stay that way for long.





Planted with the addition of another piece of bog wood. I planted without any real thought to aesthetics, since I wasn't really sure what plants I'd be able to grow in the local tap water. So I just brought a range of plants and left them to fight it out amongst themselves, however they have all done very well...so far. 

The fish were added a few days later, at first half a dozen small Cardinals, the rest - 3 Ottos, 4 more Cardinals, 10 glowlights, and 6 Colombian Tetras - were added gradually over the next 3 weeks; way too many I know, but so far so good. 





About 3 weeks later the plants have well and truly taken hold and their growth rate rockets, without the benefit of fertilisers or CO2. I also added some Java fern and Java moss. The original canopy and monolux 15 watt T8 lighting unit were replaced fairly early on with two 24 watt T5 lights.





Things start to get a bit crowded so the wood and plants where removed (I was amazed at the root development over a relatively short period of time especially the _Echinodorus _ spp. the roots seemed to go on for ever) and the whole tank was re-aquascaped. More gravel was added along with just two pieces of bog wood this time before replanting with the addition of twisted _Vallisneria_ spp. Unfortunately, some of the plants took a bit of a hammering especially the brittle _Hydrocotyle _ spp. which had also been moved from pillar to post several times before, but it still keeps putting out new leaves despite my best efforts to destroy it.





A couple of weeks later the plants are starting to settle and put down new roots and the growth takes off again. I added a few more _Lilaeopsis_ and a _Pogostemon_ this weekend, and have ordered some _Glossostigma_, for the immediate foreground, I'll let them fight it out. The poor _Hydrocotyle _suffers another move.





The same scape closer up, for what it's worth.





Closer still.





I've decided to strip this tank down in a few weeks and plan to transfer some of the contents to a Fluval Roma 90, the best I could do with the available space. I will run it with an external canister filter attached to a lily pipe set up, the Juwel internal Biofilter did an ok job (250 l/hr) but there is definitely room for improvement. I hope to come up with a more inspired and sophisticated aquascape; but we will see.


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## fish bait

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Nice tank, growing in nicely, does the soil come up when you move the plants around?


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## Lemsip

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Nice progress! The bogwood works nicely


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi, thanks guys. No the soil does not come up when I move the plants around, at the very most a get a slight localised clouding, but that disperses in seconds, it also depends on how deep the cap of sand/gravel is. I wouldn't even get clouding ordinarily, but I didn't use a gravel tidy this time (sheet of fine plastic mesh, the type used for shading greenhouses). I usually place this over the soil layer to separate it form the gravel/sand cap above, allowing the movement of plants etc without any fear of upsetting the soil. The plants are planted in the sand or gravel and they naturally extend their roots through the mesh and in to the soil, sometimes within days.

As long as the basics are understood using soil based substrate is all pretty fool proof really, and the benefits are enormous. Most aquatic plants preferentially draw most of their nutrients from the substrate, so it negates the use of fertilisers. Plants can also uptake carbon from a soil substrate, and the process of decomposition that an aquatic soil goes through also releases CO2 in to the water column, so it negates CO2 injection. And contrary to popular belief it takes years and years for the soil to become exhausted of nutrients, its all to do with Cation Exchange Capacity and achieving a balance between inputs and outputs.   

The bottom line is that soil is not used in most planted tanks because it seems counter-intuitive to most, and perhaps understandably so. But if time is taken to understand the principles behind soil based substrates the rewards are there for the reaping, without the huge financial outlay and investment in time and energy required to set up a high-tech system. And I don't just mean the effort involved but also the huge amount of energy required to run the set up and to process the CO2 and fertilisers etc. Also, the science behind some of the alternative substrates on the market just doesn't stack up.


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

it's looking good. What do you mean by soil based substrate, what exactly do you use, is it just soil from  the garden?
I'm planning on having a soil substrate, i was going to use organic choice miracle grow but cant seem to find it anywhere.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi I use my own formula, which is a blend of 20% sterilised loam, 10% grit and 70% Sphagnum Moss Peat. The aim is to provide a nutrient level just high enough to aid good plant growth but low enough to prevent excessive release of nitrate etc. 

But equally you could use aquatic compost the type readily available at garden centres for use in ponds, this would be fine and is often composed of similar ratios of loam grit and peat to my formula above. I have also had great success in the past just using Sphagnum Moss Peat on its own. The only drawback is that peat can supposedly drastically reduce pH, however I've never found this, but in hard water areas with high pH this might actually prove beneficial anyway. 

Diana Walstad, who wrote a book on the subject, has used her own garden soil, but recommends John Innes number 3. But it could prove a little too rich so adding more Sphagnum Moss Peat might be beneficial, approx half as much again should do it, but it is not an exact science especially since local water chemistry can also play a role too, for instance as above. 

An explanation of the basic principles can be found here http://theaquariumwiki.com/Walstad_method. 

It all sounds a bit complicated, but it isn't. I first started using soil based substrates over 30 years ago as a very young teenager, with very little understanding as to the science or principles behind them, and never once had any problems (ignorance is bliss). 

I first learned of soil based substrates from the leading periodical of the time "The Aquarist", and from reading what was my aquarium bible, and still is for that matter, The Complete Aquarium Encyclopaedia of Tropical Freshwater Fish, by J.D. van Ramshorst, (1978). The book was way ahead of its time, it's has amongst its pages the first mention of CO2 use in planted aquariums that I have come across, using soda siphon bottles, and the book is still very much relevant today. 

Anyway I digress, but I hope this helps.


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Thanks. I though all peat was sphagnum moss, I'll have to check & John Innes No 3 and laterite or grit.
I looked for that book on Amason and found a more uptodate edition for pretty much the price of postage so have ordered it.


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

One would have to say that for a non C02 injected tank & after only six weeks growth, your tank is outstanding!
Never have I seen such prolific 'low tech' growth documented before!!


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi not all peat is created equal. Peat is made up of decomposed vegetation of all types - trees, grasses, fungi, and insects and other animal remains. It forms because the organic matter is prevented from decaying completely by highly acidic and anaerobic conditions found in some wetlands such as bogs and mires. 

Sphagnum Moss Peat is formed primarily from Sphagnum moss (would you believe), and is the least decomposed of the general categories of peat. It is often milled and so has a more homogeneous and predictable structure and perhaps chemical composition so it is better for use in aquaria. Make sure though that it does not have any additives, such as fertilisers as they may prove harmful to fish. Irish moss peat is your best bet. 

Hope you enjoy the book, I didn't know there was a more up to date version, I have just ordered it as well.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> One would have to say that for a non C02 injected tank & after only six weeks growth, your tank is outstanding!
> Never have I seen such prolific 'low tech' growth documented before!!



Thanks...I mean really? That's very kind of you to say so. I think that once the plants get their roots in to the soil there is no stopping them, all other parameters being favourable that is, not least of which is lighting.


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Well it is interesting to come across someone who has a different approach & seems to be having great success.

As a rule it would seem that inert clay impregnated with micronutrients such as Iron and Magnesium & a high CEC like the expensive ADA products are by far the most effective when EI principles & gas are used?

However if you can get long term healthy (& fast!) growth from the plants using your principles it might prove a lot of us are waisting good money!


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

The High-Tech Way or the Highway?

Can I be perfectly frank, and I don’t mean to sound rude or to be deliberately contentious, but when I decided to return to the hobby on a whim after more than 25 years absence to say I was aghast at how much had changed is an understatement. Or rather I couldn’t for the life of me understand why so many aquarists were spending so much time, effort, and money on what I considered gismos and gadgets to set up high-tech aquariums; when similarly stunning results could be achieved the “low-tech” way with minimum effort and very little expenditure: and especially despite Diana Walstads book; who incidentally I knew nothing about until a couple of months ago.

I have pretty much always set up my tanks with soil based substrate. Well I say always that’s not completely true. In the beginning some 35 years ago at the tender age of 11 (god I’m old) I started just like everyone else by putting plants in an aquarium furnished with pea gravel and a single tungsten bulb. The plants did ok for a month or so and then started to decay and everything became covered in algae. 

Then my parents, who were keen to indulge my passion, to keep me out of mischief, brought me a subscription to “The Aquarist” and brought me a very big book by a Dutchman and it all changed overnight. Anyway, cut a long story short, I soon had several tanks heavily planted with a not insignificant list of species that seemed to thrive in the local hard water conditions, contrary to almost every other expert author I’d read. The key to this success seemed to be soil based substrate, peat filtration, and good lighting. It wasn’t rocket science, and once I knew it worked it really was child’s play. So at a time when many aquarists were leaving the hobby in frustration because they kept killing their plants and fish I was giving them away because I had too many.

35 years on perhaps nothing has really changed that much. It seems that the knowledge base that I had access to all those years ago has simply disappeared, or been regurgitated only to fall on deaf ears. And despite 10 or so years since its first run, the “Walstad Way” is still either largely misunderstood, or regarded as either too contentious, or too risky to try. Instead the general consensus is that, to have even a remote chance of success at maintaining a planted tank, it is essential to have CO2 injection, and a huge filter that turns over at least 10 times the capacity of the aquarium, and drop testers, and lily pipes, and constant dosing with fertilizers, and frequent water changes, and bubble counters, and diffusers, and inert clay substrates impregnated with nutrients; the list is seemingly endless. 

All the aquarist forums are full of buzz words such as Estimative Index (which seems like overkill to say the least, and yes I do understand the science behind it, so equally I can understand the attraction), and Nature Aquariums and Biomes. The latter, at least, are nothing new; within a year I had moved on from a community tank and had set up very successful biomes. The most notable amongst them were an Amazon biome in a 50 gallon tank, and an Asian one in a 20 gallon tank and all without recourse to soda siphon cylinders, industrial hurricane like filtration, and fertilizers, and what is more I kept them going for years and years…trouble free, I might add.

Anyway, I digress, so back to the original point. I can see the attraction of the high-tech method; all those gadgets and gizmos, I am tempted by new toys just as much as the next bloke, and I will set up a high-tech tank at some stage so that I can play too, but also to compare directly the two methods; high-tech and low-tech. But I kind of know already that the law of diminishing returns will probably not warrant the huge investment a high-tech setup requires; especially when all indications are that a low-tech set up can also achieve stunning results too. 

I also think, and I am sure it has been said before, that there is something of a blind spot when it comes to the low-tech method, and many aquarists have never heard of it let alone dared try it. Probably because putting soil in an aquarium is counter intuitive and goes against everything an aquarium is perceived to be. A low-tech set up is also perceived as being too close for comfort to the aquarium that caused the failing hobbyist so much pain and grief in the first place. So as a consequence all those aquarists that left the hobby in despair - and there are lots of them - think they have tried everything already. 

However, the more persistent and optimistic amongst them have searched for an alternative and discovered the high-tech method and understandably consider it the answer to all their aquarium dreams; an aquarist panacea. And lets face it it’s not hard to discover, just type a search for “aquarium” in Google and it throws countless references to the “high-tech” with little if anything referring to the “low-tech”. This is hardly surprising really since we live in a very commercial world. If there’s a buck to be had manufacturers and retailers naturally scramble to create and satisfy market demand. And before you know it everyone jumps on the bandwagon and the high-tech niche market becomes big business overnight perpetuating the perception that the high-tech way is the only way. 

Meanwhile, the low-tech blind spot grows, and vested interests, especially Japanese ones (mentioning no names), do the rest and cleverly market the high-tech method using a unique and stunning set of skills. And so the myth is borne, grows and is perpetuated at the expense of the alternatives, and also a growing number of aquarist’s bank accounts. So before you take the high-tech plunge consider the low-tech method and let nature do the hard work for a change. Honestly, it really isn’t rocket science and once the basic principles are grasped the benefits are there for the reaping.

Troi - research ecologist, writer, and underwater gardener.


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## dw1305

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi all,


> As a rule it would seem that inert clay impregnated with micronutrients such as Iron and Magnesium & a high CEC like the expensive ADA products are by far the most effective when EI principles & gas are used?


 Both the clay from the soil and the peat will have very high CEC's. It is the intact hyaline cells in the peat that have the CEC, the living _sphagnum_ moss is very efficient at exchanging metal ions for H+ ions, and this continues after the plants death, as long as the cells are intact. Same with the clays in the soil, these will have a higher CEC than if they had been calcined. I wouldn't think there would be any real reason why Troi's mix should be sub-optimal, and I would think it would compete pretty favourably with all other nutrient enriched substrates. 

If you are using EI, the substrate becomes much less important as the nutrients are supplied to the water column and the substrate is really there for physical support. In that case CO2 can be thought of as just another nutrient that is at non-growth limiting levels in the water column.

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

In that case perhaps you & Troi get get together & market your special brew & show us gas freaks how it is done   

Incidentally I was using the high tech, at the time, combination of -  "2 x 40w incandescent bulbs, leaf litter & peat mix" 40 years ago!
 All I got was overheating water, slow growth & algae LOL.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi exactly my point. The real strength of the method is that most plants preferentially take up most of their nutrients from the substrate and only uptake from the water column when the substrate is comparably deficient, so using soil based substrates sometimes has greater benefit than water column dosing. 

The most important exception for us, as fish keepers, is ammonium which plants prefer to uptake through their leaves, straight from the water column. However, they will still quite happily uptake it from the substrate too. In those terms a soil based substrate will compete very favourably with other nutrient enriched substrates and without additional water column fertilisation.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> In that case perhaps you & Troi get get together & market your special brew & show us gas freaks how it is done



It had crossed my mind, but then I am far too altruistic so after much deliberation I decided to share my wisdom so that everyone can benefit from its magnificence  . 

Also good to exchange views with another veteran pioneer, I don't see why we should let the youngsters steal all the glory.


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## George Farmer

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Thanks, Troi. Interesting reading.

Are you going to Aquatics Live this weekend? I'd love to meet you.


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I would be interested to see how your new tank develops especially if you attempt & nice scape with some of the more challenging plants - that would really prove a point!

I was visiting a friend's house recently & spotted a small tank bubbling away in a corner.
On closer inspection I noticed a spectacular Anubis growing in the tank, I asked for some details & apparently the tank has been there for over 10 years with only the very occasional light change,  same gravel & never received a water change.
There was only one fish, a Molly but the plant was huge & beautiful - now that is low tech!


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi, thanks for that George. Now I know about Aquatics Live I would love to have gone, it looks like a fantastic event, but unfortunately I can't. Its a shame because I would have liked to meet you too. But I guess its one of several annual events in the aquarists calendar (although this one seems a cut above) so I will look out for the next one.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I was visiting a friend's house recently & spotted a small tank bubbling away in a corner.
> On closer inspection I noticed a spectacular Anubis growing in the tank...apparently the tank has been there for over 10 years with only the very occasional light change, same gravel & never received a water change.
> There was only one fish, a Molly but the plant was huge & beautiful - now that is low tech!



That certainly is low-tech. Its amazing what some people take for granted without realising its true value.

I thoroughly intend to take up the challenge of trying to grow more "difficult" plants the low-tech way. Especially, since it seems that elsewhere in this site my well intentioned rant has stirred up something of a hornets nest. The gauntlet appears to have been well and truly thrown out of the pram.

Sorry I know you shouldn't mix your metaphors but I couldn't resist .


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## Mark Evans

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

This is low tech. One i did a while back. No co2, ferts or water changes. I did it in about 10 weeks.

I prefer the 'high tech route'


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## George Farmer

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi, thanks for that George. Now I know about Aquatics Live I would love to have gone, it looks like a fantastic event, but unfortunately I can't. Its a shame because I would have liked to meet you too. But I guess its one of several annual events in the aquarists calendar (although this one seems a cut above) so I will look out for the next one.


Cool. There's always next year.

I look forward to following the progress of your aquarium and also hope your quest to bring to balance the non-CO2 enriched hobby goes well.  There's some great aquascapes out there using the 'El natural' method, it's just their overwhelmed by the majority that take a higher-energy path.  I prefer the term "high-energy" over "high-tech".


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi Mark (not George)

That is simply sublime, if I can get to within a country mile of your "low energy" set up I'll be doing well indeed.


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## George Farmer

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi George
> 
> That is simply sublime, if I can get to within a country mile of your "low energy" set up I'll be doing well indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer the term "high-energy" over "high-tech".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great terminology and so appropriate in more ways than one, I will use it from now on.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify that the above video is from Mark's tank, not mine, as your post seems to indicate.

I'd also be very happy with said set up!


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

And George (not Mark)



> I prefer the term "high-energy" over "high-tech".



Great terminology and so appropriate in more ways than one, I will use it from now on.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> Just to clarify that the above video is from Mark's tank, not mine, as your post seems to indicate.



Sorry both, school boy error.


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi not all peat is created equal. Peat is made up of decomposed vegetation of all types - trees, grasses, fungi, and insects and other animal remains. It forms because the organic matter is prevented from decaying completely by highly acidic and anaerobic conditions found in some wetlands such as bogs and mires.
> 
> Sphagnum Moss Peat is formed primarily from Sphagnum moss (would you believe), and is the least decomposed of the general categories of peat. It is often milled and so has a more homogeneous and predictable structure and perhaps chemical composition so it is better for use in aquaria. Make sure though that it does not have any additives, such as fertilisers as they may prove harmful to fish. Irish moss peat is your best bet.
> 
> Hope you enjoy the book, I didn't know there was a more up to date version, I have just ordered it as well.




Thanks for the info. So what does the soil and grit do?


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## dw1305

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi all,


> I thoroughly intend to take up the challenge of trying to grow more "difficult" plants the low-tech way. Especially, since it seems that elsewhere in this site my well intentioned rant has stirred up something of a hornets nest. The gauntlet appears to have been well and truly thrown out of the pram.


We do go down this route every now and then and have some "lively" debate. You might like to have a look at this post: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8834>.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> We do go down this route every now and then and have some "lively" debate. You might like to have a look at this post:


Hi, sorry I don't have the time to read through the entire thread. Would you be so good as to sum up the point your trying to make. I might have some answers. Many thanks


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> Thanks for the info. So what does the soil and grit do?



The soil holds nutrients that plants can utilise, the grit just adds structure so the substrate is more conducive to root development, water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange.


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

So - is basic layman's terms - you are suggesting that by using a specific soil based substrate you can achieve very good results comparable with "high energy" (C02 injected) tanks?
However You are using high lighting because the pants are getting not only nutrients but a C02 supply from the substrate?
You allow a break in the lighting because you feel this helps prevent algae & further allows C02 levels to recover?
However you do not add any fertiliser to the water column - are there fish in your tanks?

I am very interested in your methods even though I am very content with the "high energy" tanks I keep, I am a techie born & bred but perhaps an easy maintenance tank could find a space in my den!


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## dw1305

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi all,


> Hi, sorry I don't have the time to read through the entire thread. Would you be so good as to sum up the point your trying to make....


 You are not obliged to read anything, but I looked back through the forum to find this particular thread, as I thought it may be of interest to you. 

I think that it may give you a fairly good idea of where we are, or aren't, coming from.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> are there fish in your tanks?



Hi yes there are fish in my tank, it is up to and probably beyond the capacity of my minimal filtration, so perhaps there lies the answer .

I am currently writing an article for this site by way of an introduction to my methods, so all will be revealed shortly, that is if they publish it. Either way It will make its way in to the public domain or on to the Interweb in one form or another, or one forum or another, I'll keep you posted it you like.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> You are not obliged to read anything, but I looked back through the forum to find this particular thread, as I thought it may be of interest to you.



Hi Darrel
Reading my reply back it seems a little rude. I will read the thread you kindly picked out for me sometime this weekend, it sounds intriguing.


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## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi Troi, your article will be most welcome....
I help to manage a large forum (not aquarium related) & we always welcome fresh input with relish! - I see no reason why your opinions would not be received with much interest & support on this forum - bring it on


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. So what does the soil and grit do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The soil holds nutrients that plants can utilise, the grit just adds structure so the substrate is more conducive to root development, water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange.
Click to expand...


Im going to try and get hold of the peat and stuff this weekend. I have a 5'x12"x15" I want to get set up this weekend. I got some baby xenopus frogs and have been keeping them in a 64L really useful box in my bedroom but now they're half grown they've started croaking and keeping me awake at night so need to be moved lol.


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info. So what does the soil and grit do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The soil holds nutrients that plants can utilise, the grit just adds structure so the substrate is more conducive to root development, water movement, nutrient transference, and gas exchange.
Click to expand...


Im going to try and get hold of the peat and stuff this weekend. I have a 5'x12"x15" I want to get set up this weekend. I got some baby xenopus frogs and have been keeping them in a 64L really useful box in my bedroom but now they're half grown they've started croaking and keeping me awake at night so need to be moved lol.


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## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> Im going to try and get hold of the peat and stuff this weekend. I have a 5'x12"x15" I want to get set up this weekend. I got some baby xenopus frogs and have been keeping them in a 64L really useful box in my bedroom but now they're half grown they've started croaking and keeping me awake at night so need to be moved lol.



Hi any news to report on how you got on?


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## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Im going to try and get hold of the peat and stuff this weekend. I have a 5'x12"x15" I want to get set up this weekend. I got some baby xenopus frogs and have been keeping them in a 64L really useful box in my bedroom but now they're half grown they've started croaking and keeping me awake at night so need to be moved lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi any news to report on how you got on?
Click to expand...


Hi

I got hold of all the ingredients (laterite for grit) plus gravel tidy and have mixed well and put down as a layer in the bottom of the tank and moistened. I haven't got further than that yet as I want to get some plants and am also waiting for a filter to come. I read that some people leave it to adapt to being under water for quite a long period but I don't think the peat will need that step.
I'm also thinking of trying this in my other tanks but using tesco cat litter in place of gravel, I've got as far as washing 2 bags so far. My big tank is 5x2x2 so I think i'll need about 8 bags of cat litter so could be some time. I have a 3'x18"x18" I'll most likely try first with cat litter & your soil mixture. Gravel tidys seem to have gone out of fashion, I might try using fleece that you use for protecting plants from frost as I heard that it can be used instead.
Have you tried using clay in your substrate? eg the red stuff that you make pottery from, I just haven't found where to get it yet, I've heard that that can be good. What about organic choice miracle grow compost, how do you think that compares?


----------



## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I dont know how suitable this would be but, I mix it with baked clay cat litter (& chicken manure) for my trees!


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I got hold of all the ingredients (laterite for grit) plus gravel tidy and have mixed well and put down as a layer in the bottom of the tank and moistened. I haven't got further than that yet as I want to get some plants and am also waiting for a filter to come. I read that some people leave it to adapt to being under water for quite a long period but I don't think the peat will need that step.



Be careful using laterite with peat. I always used peat on its own, so I cannot comment from experience. But peat is acidic and it could potentially solubilise metals in the laterite such as iron to toxic levels. However, the dissolved organic carbon released by the peat will go some way to countering this effect (by binding to the iron), as will hard water that buffers pH above 7.0. I've always lived in very hard water areas with relatively high pH and so have never experienced the potentially hazardous drops in pH and associated problems that others have reported.

In this case it might be prudent to leave it to stand for a while and flush a couple of times just to make sure. I would be very interested to find out how you get on.

On the whole I wouldn't be too concerned about increasing soil fertility with laterite or cat litter if you are not going to use CO2 injection, since the plants will not necessarily grow fast enough to warrant it. There should already be enough nutrients in the soil. For most purposes just adding gravel to improve the structure instead will be fine.



> Have you tried using clay in your substrate? eg the red stuff that you make pottery from, I just haven't found where to get it yet, I've heard that that can be good. What about organic choice miracle grow compost, how do you think that compares?



I can't say that I have used either but I would be very interested to learn from your experiences should you endeavor to go down either of those routes. I think Diana Walstad used something very similar to the miracle grow product in her shrimp tank experiments. http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/00388Shrimp.pdf



> Gravel tidys seem to have gone out of fashion, I might try using fleece that you use for protecting plants from frost as I heard that it can be used instead.



A company call Gardman produce a product by the 5m role that is a good choice, it's exactly the same material as the old gravel tidies but is marketed for greenhouse shading. It sounds like you're going to need most of it anyway. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardman-Greenho ... B001P3SPIU. 

If you can, check it out in your local garden centre first to make sure its what you want.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I dont know how suitable this would be but, I mix it with baked clay cat litter (& chicken manure) for my trees!



Again I don't have any personal experience using this, but I have read on several similar forums that generally it works well. Personally, I would lay off the chicken manure if you are going to put it in an aquarium .


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> I got hold of all the ingredients (laterite for grit) plus gravel tidy and have mixed well and put down as a layer in the bottom of the tank and moistened. I haven't got further than that yet as I want to get some plants and am also waiting for a filter to come. I read that some people leave it to adapt to being under water for quite a long period but I don't think the peat will need that step.
Click to expand...


Be careful using laterite with peat. I always used peat on its own, so I cannot comment from experience. But peat is acidic and it could potentially solubilise metals in the laterite such as iron to toxic levels. 
However, the dissolved organic carbon released by the peat will go some way to countering this effect (by binding to the iron), as will hard water that buffers pH above 7.0. I've always lived in very hard water areas with relatively high pH and so have never experienced the potentially hazardous drops in pH and associated problems that others have reported.

In this case it might be prudent to leave it to stand for a while and flush a couple of times just to make sure. I would be very interested to find out how you get on.

Now you tell me, I chose laterite thinking it would be better, I wasn't sure if you just meant the usual quarts gravel when you said grit or what? anyway my tap water is GH 11 so fairly hard so should hopefully be ok, I have a test kit for iron so can check it.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> Gravel tidys seem to have gone out of fashion, I might try using fleece that you use for protecting plants from
> A company call Gardman produce a product by the 5m role that is a good choice, it's exactly the same material as the old gravel tidies but is marketed for greenhouse shading. It sounds like you're going to need most of it anyway. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gardman-Greenho ... B001P3SPIU.
> 
> If you can, check it out in your local garden centre first to make sure its what you want.



Thanks for that, I'll have a look in the garden centre. it cost me about £7 for a 6'x15" roll of gravel tidy so much cheaper.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Just thought I'd post an update of progress so far.





This is how it all started, so from this to that in about 8 weeks.

















The plants are maturing nicely despite frequent moves


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Wow that's doing really well !
I've just filled my tank tonight, the one with your recipe of soil and have fluorite red gravel on top. I syphoned the water in from the tank above and accidently got 3 fish in there, they just wouldn't stay away from the hose, I hope they'll be ok. I filled it to about 4 inches then syphoned it back out as a flush and then filled it so its practically clear already. I hope mine does as well as yours, I bought a few plants at the weekend for it.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi thanks 
I've syphoned my fish before and they've been none the worse for wear. I hope your tank goes well. Keep us posted.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi thanks
> I've syphoned my fish before and they've been none the worse for wear. I hope your tank goes well. Keep us posted.



I was more concerned that the soil might leach something rather than them being bothered by being syphoned. i didn't want to move them back in case they get white spot from the shock, it was a bit cooler in the bottom tank with the cold gravel etc. i doubt they will get whitespot or anything though.
I'm quite please with the filters, they were pretty cheap from allpondsolutions.I bought a 2000 litre per hour external with UV for my 5x2x2 from them for £63 which I haven't tried out yet too.

i'll have to get some photos of the new tank up, I haven't got the light wired up yet or any plants added.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I've read some pretty good reviews about All Pond Solutions and their tec. I've brought a few things from them as well and found their customer service second to none. So I should imagine the filters will work well. Looking forward to the photos.


----------



## Brenmuk

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi I use my own formula, which is a blend of 20% sterilised loam, 10% grit and 70% Sphagnum Moss Peat. The aim is to provide a nutrient level just high enough to aid good plant growth but low enough to prevent excessive release of nitrate etc.



I'm intrigued by your soil formula - I might give it a try when I next set up my main tank.

I usually use John Innes no.1 for seeds and cuttings as my soil layer which is only about 25% peat. I can get harder to grow plants like P.helferi  to grow but not Lilaeopsis - I assume that is Lilaeopsis as your middle foreground plant?
Also is that Hydrocotyle you have growing in the foreground in the 1st pictures? I didn't notice in the later pictures how did you find it in your set up did it grow much?

How long do your scapes/soils last? I found with mine a slight drop off after about a 1.5 yrs where I started to find growing some foreground plants more challenging.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I can get harder to grow plants like P.helferi to grow but not Lilaeopsis - I assume that is Lilaeopsis as your middle foreground plant?
> Also is that Hydrocotyle you have growing in the foreground in the 1st pictures? I didn't notice in the later pictures how did you find it in your set up did it grow much?
> 
> How long do your scapes/soils last? I found with mine a slight drop off after about a 1.5 yrs where I started to find growing some foreground plants more challenging.



Hi 
Well spotted on both accounts, yep that is Lilaeopsis and _Eleocharis _ssp. in the foreground, and it is growing quite nicely despite taking a hammering by being moved frequently. It hasn't really had chance to get established yet and put down roots, but it keeps putting out runners with little plantlets.

And yes the Hydrocotyle is missing, it was doing fine and kept on putting out new leaves. But I think it started to suffer from all the moves I put it through since some of the older leaves were starting to become covered in a fuzz of algae. But aside from that I didn't have room for it.

I have used peat on its own for years on end (in an Amazon biome) without any noticeable decline in plant growth, probably something to do with its high CEC and lots of well fed fish, but I haven't used any other combination for that long a period. I tend to get board easily and strip them down and set them up again afresh. I guess that's all part of the fun for me.

However, the soils I have recommended are largely composed of peat and/or have a high clay content with a naturally high CEC so they should retain enough nutrients to keep plants happy almost indefinitely. In other words, the rate of plant growth, though vigorous, should not be sufficient to outstrip soil nutrient replenishment. This should continue as long as water movement through the substrate is adequate enough to provide nutrient transference.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> I've read some pretty good reviews about All Pond Solutions and their tec. I've brought a few things from them as well and found their customer service second to none. So I should imagine the filters will work well. Looking forward to the photos.



I haven't taken any yet, the water is crystal clear and the 3 accidentally added fish are happy. My aquascaping abilities are pretty much none existant. I've added sagitarria subdulata, rotala rotundifolia, Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis and am adding a few cuttings from the other tanks - mexican oakleaf, water sprite and hygrophilla polysperma, star grass.

Have you seen this tank before?
The guy uses cat litter & soil.

http://youtu.be/RbQWMnE2a6E

http://youtu.be/U4pZw-4lf4U


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Good news about the fish, I never doubted for one moment they would be fine. Sounds like you're getting there slowly but surely. Thanks for the link, pretty cool it reminds me of the Amazon biome I set up all those years ago, I pretty much left it to its own devices too, although I don't remember it being quite so luxuriant and wild as the one in the YouTube vids.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi for the full enchilada check out the link below. It takes you to an article I've written about getting started with soil substrates, entitled "Zen and an Introduction to the Art of Underwater Gardening with Soil Substrate".

http://ssapa.webs.com/

It's only a blog and it's still in its infancy, but it's a start nonetheless; I will be adding images shortly. Anyway, I hope it helps; comments welcome by the way.

Troi


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

The link didn't work


----------



## foxfish

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Works for me OK, I am looking forward to reading later tonight.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi the link works now, just experiencing a few technical hitches.

http://ssapa.webs.com/


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Interesting read mate. I fancy another low tech approach.

If i may, I'd change garden centers to... garden centres. Bang it into 'word'


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Thanks for that, it hasn't been proof read yet so there's bound to be more of the same.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Two more images, black background removed and plants trimmed a bit.










I think it gives a greater perception of depth.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> foxfish wrote:
> However You are using high lighting because the pants are getting not only nutrients but a C02 supply from the substrate?



I have been using very high light intensity and duration for a lower energy soil substrate tank, and until recently I've been getting away with it. However I have noticed, under very close observation, that over the past month or so several species of algae have started to creep in from the edges, so to speak. So I am aware that if I continue down this avenue I could be courting disaster.

In the absence of CO2 injection and eutrophic dosing, lighting is about the only parameter that I can vary in order to maintain a healthy equilibrium, so I made the decision today to take out one of the T5 bulbs, which leaves me with 1 x 24 watt T5. If my maths is right, which quite often it isn't, this has brought my watts per gallon down from a staggering 3.2 to a relatively shady 1.6.

I have left the photoperiod the same (10 hours with a 2 hour siesta in the middle) since I think its more favourable to growth to do so, and just changing one variable at a time makes it easier to diagnose any future problems should they occur.    

I'll continue to keep a close eye on the algae and monitor what happens, and then maybe I can also alter the photoperiod if necessary.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> I've read some pretty good reviews about All Pond Solutions and their tec. I've brought a few things from them as well and found their customer service second to none. So I should imagine the filters will work well. Looking forward to the photos.



Here are a few pics

Not sure what this was, I asked if I could have it for free seeing as it was all just about dead, this bit managed to survive and has thrown out some new leaves




the mexican oakleaf was growing very weedy in the other tank (just cat litter substrate and EI dosing, it hardly seems to grow any roots and just gets more weedy but its now growing roots. It's suffering after being nibbled lots by the ameca Splendens and has some brown algae but hopefully it will do better now its growing roots. It was growing about 1" per day in the other tank.




The water sprite looks happy, It has only been in there a few days but its standing upright. I grow tons of the stuff as a floater in my other tanks.




the rotala is showing signs of life too







The hygrophila polysperma is a bit mixed, it was in a bit of a state after getting stuckk in the post but was doing really well in the cat litter tank but a bit mixed in this tank so far.





some has melted




this little bit had god roots and is really standing up




I have quite a bit of brown algae on the leaves and have inherited a bit of green hair algae on some of the plants i bought too.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> Not sure what this was, I asked if I could have it for free seeing as it was all just about dead, this bit managed to survive and has thrown out some new leaves



I'm no expert, though it looks like a _hygrophila_ spp. I am sure they will all grow well once they have got their feet in to the soil.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

What is the reason for using john Innes no3 and not just soil from the garden? I know there could be potential risks with garden soil being contaminated with fertilizer etc but if you know its not had any fertilizer then wouldn't it be better to use garden soil?
Its just that I've used soil bought from garden centers in outdoor planters and the plants hardly grew at all but when using soil from the garden they grow well.


----------



## Christor

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I must say between this post and your blog I am truly inspired, reason for joining this forum was to find out more about setting up such an aquarium as the ones you have troi, and this has definitely answered a lot of questions(great blog) and given me the confidence to go ahead and know it works.  The high tehc route wasn't really an option and to be honest didnt interest me, the Walstad did and this is quite simply the same principles, thank you

Expect possible Pm's in the future, I have few more questions but this has given me the kick start needed


----------



## dw1305

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Hi all,


> Not sure what this was, I asked if I could have it for free seeing as it was all just about dead, this bit managed to survive and has thrown out some new leaves.......I'm no expert, though it looks like a hygrophila spp.


 I think it is a Hygrophila sp. as well, probably _H. corymbosa_.





> I have quite a bit of brown algae on the leaves and have inherited a bit of green hair algae on some of the plants i bought too.


 Looks like Stagshorn (_Compsopogon_ sp. A Red Alga) from the photo, I occasionally get a bit of it on older leaves, possibly related to lack of filter maintenance. Plants look a bit nitrogen deficient as well, you can see the leaves are getting smaller towards the apex, and the leaves are yellow all over rather than showing the interveinal chlorosis you would expect with magnesium or iron deficiency, you can see this on the _Rotala_.

<http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af279/*stan73/troi*/2011_1210Troi0014.jpg >
Are they Stan73's photo's?

cheers Darrel


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I filled the tank with water from a tank that I do EI doising on, I admit I don't keep up with the water change, i tend to do EI dosing for a week and then another week without adding anything before I get round to the 50% water change as I dont get the time. The plants in the other tank (the one I got the water from) don't grow much so I doubt they will absorb that much neutrients plus I feed the fish daily but only a couple of small cubes of cyclops, I have some krib fry in their at the moment. 
Anyway I've just measured the nitrate level in the newly set up tank using an API test kit and its at the top of the scale at about 160ppm, in the tank that the water came from its at the top of the scale 160ppm. if the test kit is anything to go by I have too many fish with 2 kribs, 6 fry, and about 20 small live bearers in a  5'x24"x18" tank, i dont know?


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

<http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af279/*stan73/troi*/2011_1210Troi0014.jpg >
Are they Stan73's photo's?

Yes they're my photos


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> What is the reason for using john Innes no3 and not just soil from the garden? I know there could be potential risks with garden soil being contaminated with fertilizer etc but if you know its not had any fertilizer then wouldn't it be better to use garden soil?
> Its just that I've used soil bought from garden centers in outdoor planters and the plants hardly grew at all but when using soil from the garden they grow well.



Stan…in principle there is absolutely nothing wrong with using garden soil in an aquarium as a medium for plants. However, it does entail certain risks. You are right they may contain substances that could prove toxic to aquatic life. 

However, soils behave differently when they are submerged and usually this just means that sometimes they don’t work very well as an aquatic planting substrate; even though they work perfectly well in your garden.  Also, for instance, certain soils can cause metal toxicity or long-term turbidity depending on their composition and local water chemistry. But in short, the fertility of a submerged soil does not necessarily guarantee vigorous growth, in many cases it is the least toxic soil which provides the best growing conditions.

The advantage of using proprietary brands like John Innes is that they are guaranteed to be of consistent composition, and have been tried and tested and proven to be safe and work well as submerged substrates. This, in no small measure, is also due to their relatively high cation exchange capacity, which means that they have the ability to hold nutrients in a form plants can easily utilize.

However, there is nothing stopping you experimenting with your soil. You could use 2 litre drinks bottles one containing submerged John Innes, for instance, and another garden soil to compare growth rates of the same aquatic plant species. Obviously all other variables would have to be the same, so that you could be sure that any difference in growth rate is down to the soil alone. Whilst you are at it you could also keep an eye on water chemistry to determine if any toxic substances leach out; that is if you have access to the necessary test kits. But there is no need to be too scientific about it; you should get a good idea how well your soil works by observation alone.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I must say between this post and your blog I am truly inspired, reason for joining this forum was to find out more about setting up such an aquarium as the ones you have troi, and this has definitely answered a lot of questions(great blog) and given me the confidence to go ahead and know it works. The high tehc route wasn't really an option and to be honest didnt interest me, the Walstad did and this is quite simply the same principles, thank you
> 
> Expect possible Pm's in the future, I have few more questions but this has given me the kick start needed



Christor..thanks for your kind words, I am only too pleased to be of service. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any future queries.

Troi


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> I filled the tank with water from a tank that I do EI doising on, I admit I don't keep up with the water change, i tend to do EI dosing for a week and then another week without adding anything before I get round to the 50% water change as I dont get the time. The plants in the other tank (the one I got the water from) don't grow much so I doubt they will absorb that much neutrients plus I feed the fish daily but only a couple of small cubes of cyclops, I have some krib fry in their at the moment.
> Anyway I've just measured the nitrate level in the newly set up tank using an API test kit and its at the top of the scale at about 160ppm, in the tank that the water came from its at the top of the scale 160ppm. if the test kit is anything to go by I have too many fish with 2 kribs, 6 fry, and about 20 small live bearers in a 5'x24"x18" tank, i dont know?



Stan...I don't think your stock levels have much to do with the high nitrate levels in either tank, it sounds like it's to do with your nutrient dosing regime. I would do a significant water change to get the nitrate concentration down to a more acceptable level. I also densely plant my newly set up tanks from the outset and add floating plants, the latter at least, rapidly remove excess nutrients. Dense planting also helps to prevent the potential problems that can occur in the first few weeks, or so, of submerging a soil.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I've just double checked my dose:
I made up  made up 31 g of KNO3 in 1000 g of solution and added 150g on days 1,3 5 so added 14 g of KNO3 which is 61% Nitrate.
My tank is 5'x2'x18", I measure the water depth at 20" excluding substrate so comes to 330 liters water.
14 x 0.61 x 1000/330 = 26 ppm Nitrate

Readying what people have said about test kits on here I should throw it in the bin and not worry, anyway the krib and endler fry are growing well so things must be ok, I was told my plants look deficient in nitrate though so who knows what the nitrate really is? I'll do a water change probably tomorrow and continue adding the ferts. I've read opinions that its not the actual nitrate that harms fish but more a case  that when you get to a point when nitrate has built up then other nasties will have built up and its these that do the harm. I haven's seen any experimental evidence to prove any of these theories though.

The tank I took the water from had the same nitrate reading and doesn't have any soil, just cat litter substrate so its not coming from the soil.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> The tank I took the water from had the same nitrate reading and doesn't have any soil, just cat litter substrate so its not coming from the soil.



Well that's something positive at least.


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

some more photos taken just now to update you;

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 7fdf221004


----------



## skeletonw00t

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

Looks really nice, v lush for low tech. I wish my hi tech looked this healthy


----------



## Morgan Freeman

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

How long does water in a soil tank take to settle? Mines taking forever!


----------



## stan1973

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*

I filled it to about 4" with the hose onto a plate to minimise disturbance, it was a little bit dirty so I syphoned it empty and then refilled to the top. It was pretty much clear. I ran the filters and it was totally clear the next day.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



> How long does water in a soil tank take to settle? Mines taking forever!



Hi what soil substrate are you using and what is it capped with?


----------



## Morgan Freeman

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> How long does water in a soil tank take to settle? Mines taking forever!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi what soil substrate are you using and what is it capped with?
Click to expand...


John Innes 3. 1inch. 1inch of gravel.


----------



## Tim Harrison

*Re: Low-tech aquarium*






The latest images. Just over 3 months since the tank was first set up the planting has gone through a few changes, several of the plant species have thrived but one or two species have not done so well for various reasons and I've been pretty quick to get rid of them. These include _Pogostemon helferi_, and _Hydrocotyle verticillata_; but in fairness I don't think they had chance to get their roots established since I moved them way too often. 

_Myriophhyllum mattogrossense_ did ok but it wasn't exactly thriving so it had to go; I think it might have  benefited from additional ferts dosing. And finally I started with a low energy standard _Anubias barteri var. nana_, but that rotted at the rhizome crown almost immediately. I have since read elsewhere in the forum that it could be to do with a bacterial infection. I am inclined to agree since it was attached to bog wood at the time, and it was also purchased from the same chain store as some of the others that rotted.  





Plants that have done particularly well are _Lilaeopsis brasiliensis_; despite not really establishing their roots they keep sending out runners with loads of plantlets. The big root feeders have also done exceptionally well, these include _Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Torpica'_, _E bleheri_, and _V spiralis_, the latter must be growing a couple of cms a day; but no real suprises there given my relatively hard water conditions. _Ceratopteris cornuta_, and _Eleocharis parvula_ have both grown ok as have _V. americana_, _Hygrophila sp_, and _Bacopa sp_. And the old faithfuls _Microsorium pteropus_ and _Vesicularia dubyana_ just keep plugging away no matter what.

Interestingly though the floating plant _Salvinia auriculata_ which showed rampant growth when the tank was first set up has almost died back completely and those plants that remain are small and pale. Perhaps a sign that the aquarium water is oligotrophic.





Meanwhile the 50% light reduction seems to have worked and the algae that threatened to sweep in from the wings has subsided almost completely; just a little fuzz and a few green spots that have persisted from before on some of the older plant leaves. Water is crystal clear, and water chemistry perfect and stable. And the fish have gone native on me, and my otos have spawned; I hope it's because they think they're back in a small tributary of the Amazon river.


----------



## stan1973

It's looking really good. 
I'm just doing a water change on the 5'x2'x2', I can't remember if I mentioned it before but I used 40% peat, 40% organic choice miracle grow & 20% soil from the garden, I also added 1 part grit to 9 parts soil, I used your recommended gardman greenhouse shading and topped with tesco cat litter. I've got quite a bit of brown algae but i'm blaming that on lack of water changes and too much light, its not growing on the plants underneath the water sprite so shows that less light will help. I've already added 3 fish and they all look happy especially with all that space. I''m just considering filtering through peat to see if it will help keep the algae under control. I was thinking I could put peat into some old tights and put it the external filter I have a big sack of westland irish moss peat i can use. do you have any idea of how much I should add, its aprrox 100 gallon tank?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi Stan
Tights might rot depending on what they are made of, it they are 100% nylon, then I guess no worries. Nevertheless, you can pick up specially made filter media bags on eBay for a couple of quid. I usually just use the amount of peat that would comfortably replace charcoal in the filter. But in a tank your size I'm guessing maybe about quarter to half a litre of peat would be a good place to start. You can experiment form there. The tannin released from the peat will tint the water an amber colour, you can adjust the amount of peat to suit your own preference, deep or light tint etc. I usually change the peat every month or two. Regardless, the humic substances released might help with the algae, but have you seen this site http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com it might help also.
Kindest Troi


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## stan1973

Hi Troi
Sorry to keep you waiting so long. I did a big water change of about 80% and have been adding excel, I still haven't got round to cleaning the filter & adding peat though. I reduced the lighting period and moved my pair of bristle noses in. They munched through most of the brown algae in no time but didn't manage to clean the delicate leafs so i added 3 otos and its all now looking nice and clean. Here's a quick clip, I have some more fish in there, see the clip for details.

http://youtu.be/fScw_IKtPGc


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## Tim Harrison

Wow that's looking amazing, health plants and happy fish, I think you've found the magic balance. Those swords are incredible. Could you post a list of the plants that have done well, it will be very useful to all of us with soil aquariums.


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## hinch

what have you capped your soil with I'm considering using some soil in one of my smaller tanks but need something to cap it.

also have you tried a combined soil + co2 setup yet?


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## Tim Harrison

Hi i have capped my soil with 3mm pool sand, but I have also used a gravel tidy/soil retainer in between the two to prevent disturbing the soil during aquascaping. Its all in the tutorial.

I haven't tried with CO2 yet but I am experimenting with dosing a new soil setup with ferts according to Tom Barr's recommendations. Again a brief discussion of using ferts and CO2 is included in the tutorial. But there is no reason why it shouldn't work as well if not better than the usual higher energy setup, it may even be more energy efficient.


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## hinch

reason I asked is I've just liberated 4x 2kg fe's from work and I already have a low light easy carbo + ei tank up and running which I want to shut down and get rid of.  So the plan is to do up the slightly bigger tank with some soil and sand etc.  
I assume you only plant into the sand layer and not into the soil layer? or is it fine to push down into the soil layer for larger rooted plants


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## foxfish

I use soil & gas & have done so for many years.
I have never used any form of barrier between the soil & the capping as I find the plant roots like to penetrate as far as they can & then start to travel along the bottom.
In my latest set up I have 100mm of soil mix capped with 10mm of fine gravel although I would not recommend people cove the whole base with that sort of depth.


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## stan1973

Troi said:
			
		

> Wow that's looking amazing, health plants and happy fish, I think you've found the magic balance. Those swords are incredible. Could you post a list of the plants that have done well, it will be very useful to all of us with soil aquariums.



I have a couple of different species of amazon swords, I'm not sure which species but the ones with the sword shaped leaves seem to do better than the ones with the more oval shaped leaves, I don't know if that narrows it down as they tend to become more sword shaped when submerged and more oval when they're out of the water (a lot of them have been grown above water when you buy them). I've had those plants probably a couple of years and they already looked good when they went in. I had been growing them in pots in miracle grow but after a while they didn't do well and started shrinking. once I started adding ferts (EI plus liquid carbon) they really took off and did well so that's what I'm adding again in here (about half dose). I'm not sticking strictly to EI, I added half dose of ferts after a water change but haven't  done a water change for a couple of weeks and don't plant to do it them that often as its quite under stocked.
I also have crytocoryne wendtii which is looking healthy but hasn't grown much yet, the tank hasn't been set up long and it was completely coated with brown algae for a while. 
I also have water sprite & water lettuce floating, I used to think they would only grow if i used soft water but they're doing fine with my GH11 tap water, there's an anubias plant sat on a piece of bog wood which is growing well now that its not getting chewed down by fish and not covered in BBA. Mexican oakleaf - I bought this as it was said to do well in hard water and be one of the fastest growing aquatic plants - i've found it grows quite thin and weedy but its looking a lot greener in this tank, it does grow bibber when it reaches the surface.  
I have Cardamine Lyrata / Japanese Cress - i read that it was easy to grow, i've had it quite a long time in the other tank and it has survived but not really grown (cat litter substrate, EI dosing), it seems to be doing better in here presumable due to the liquid carbon and better nw that the otos have eaten the brown algae. Rotala rotundifolia is doing quite well but a bit tall and weedy, maybe I need more light?
My hygrophila corymbosa is struggling a bit, I had some in my other tank with just cat litter and it did ok but the roots rotted, in my other dirted tank the roots rotted quickly
I have a few other little bits and pieces but it's a bit early to say how they're doing. I'm going to move my star grass into here, it did well for a while just in cat litter with EI but its struggling now, I think the fish have attacked it. 

This guy is into dirt tanks
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dustinsfish ... ture=watch

He's set a forum/website too - fishtanktv.com  it has chatroom and places to post pics  videos, and talk about dirt tanks and the hobby in general.


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## stan1973

Oh dear, my substrate has just done several farts, the fish don't look bothered though.


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## Tim Harrison

> I assume you only plant into the sand layer and not into the soil layer? or is it fine to push down into the soil layer for larger rooted plants



Hi, in the tanks without a gravel tidy I push the plant roots through the gravel cap and in to the soil below, that is if they have long enough roots of course. However, in a tank with a gravel tidy it is only possible to plant them in to the gravel layer. 

Nevertheless, they will naturally (and very quickly) extend their roots through the gravel tidy's mesh and in to the soil below stimulated by the directional pull of gravity, it's called geotropism. Once they become established in the soil they will continue to grow, as Foxfish has said, and start to travel along the bottom of the tank possibly following a concentration gradient of nutrients. 

The roots of so called big root feeders such as Amazon swords and cryptocorynes, for instance, will quickly spread to cover a large area.


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## Tim Harrison

> I have a couple of different species of amazon swords, I'm not sure which species but the ones with the sword shaped leaves seem to do better than the ones with the more oval shaped leaves, I don't know if that narrows it down as they tend to become more sword shaped when submerged and more oval when they're out of the water (a lot of them have been grown above water when you buy them). I've had those plants probably a couple of years and they already looked good when they went in. I had been growing them in pots in miracle grow but after a while they didn't do well and started shrinking. once I started adding ferts (EI plus liquid carbon) they really took off and did well so that's what I'm adding again in here (about half dose). I'm not sticking strictly to EI, I added half dose of ferts after a water change but haven't done a water change for a couple of weeks and don't plant to do it them that often as its quite under stocked.
> I also have crytocoryne wendtii which is looking healthy but hasn't grown much yet, the tank hasn't been set up long and it was completely coated with brown algae for a while.



It all sounds great, I am doing something similar with ferts but without the organic carbon, and with regular and big water changes - 30-50% twice a week. So far results are good.

Before that in the other tank, which I have since dismantled, I was just using soil and the big root feeders did exceptionally well, for instance _Cryptocoryne wendtii Tropica_ went berserk and grew to around 25 cm in height; it's only supposed to reach 10cm max. It also grew very densely and given time I am sure it would even have out competed the Amazon swords.

I think Tom Barr is right soil adds something else which greatly benefits plants and aquarium health in general even when using eutrophic fert dosing and CO2; it's always been my belief too.


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## hinch

after I've finished messing around with getting the 1000l tank sorted I'm going to attempt a soil based tank in one of the little 60l tanks I think. see how it goes and tear down the cat litter tank as after 6 months I'm still not happy with it just gotta work out how to catch the shrimp.


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## Tim Harrison

My Amano shrimps are partial to algae wafers, brings them out of hiding every time, they get so preoccupied with gorging themselves they are easier to catch...famous last words. Let me know how you get on.


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## faizal

A dumb question here please. Can I use a three month old Aqua Soil Amazonia mixed with 10% Sphagnum Moss Peat capped with an 1.5 inches of 3 mm sized sand like inert gravel to acheive the same effect?


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## Tim Harrison

> A dumb question here please. Can I use a three month old Aqua Soil Amazonia mixed with 10% Sphagnum Moss Peat capped with an 1.5 inches of 3 mm sized sand like inert gravel to acheive the same effect?



It's not a dumb question - I don't see why not; it's always good to experiment and both are safe for use in an aquarium. I have just set up two tanks using 50% aquatic compost and 50% Sphagnum Moss Peat; so far so good. 

The Amazonia will already have gone through the mineralisation process, and the colonies of beneficial bacteria will greatly aid the mineralisation of the organic matter in the relatively small percentage of peat. It would be interesting to know whether you get any increases in water column ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and to what degree, during the initial set up phase.

However, the actual recommended percentage of peat used probably depends on whether you intend to use ferts and/or CO2. If you don't intend to use either I would up the percentage of peat to around 50% to be on the safe side, since peat will tend to help long term nutrient retention particularly under a sand cap, but equally you could be fine with just 10% especially If you intend to use ferts. You're kind of on uncharted territory as far as I am concerned.

Watch the thickness of your sand cap, the thicker it is the less water circulation and nutrient transference from the water column and the greater the possibility of your soil layer becoming too anaerobic to support vigorous plant growth.


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## faizal

The aqua soil isn't fresh off the bag. I had previously used it in my old high tech tank for about 2 months. I had initially set up the tank to see if I could grow plants using co2. So the soil has already been cycled I think & I had dried it & kept it stored for future use.  

I would love to give your method a try & yeah,...I guess it would be nice to have a tank where you don't need to add ferts or co2 & yet have such a healthy growth as yours.

The water in my area is actually soft ,...as its surrounded by paddy fields. 

I fear that by adding 50% of peat into my substrate mix it might turn things around against me. 

So the peat should form the bottom most layer of the substrate,..on top of which lies the aqua soil which would then be capped with an inch of sand cap?

Another question please,... Should the peat be pre soaked or pre boiled prior to placing it into the aquarium?


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## Tim Harrison

Hi most likely the Amazonia has undergone mineralisation, but the colonies of beneficial bacteria may well be absent since it has been dried and stored. The fresh peat will have to undergo mineralisation so it will be likely that some ammonia will be given off. 

Cycling a tank is a different matter check this out http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 82#p198182 hopefully all will become clear.

You are right to be cautious regarding the use of peat in soft water areas; it's always better to err on the side of caution.

With regards layering the peat I would just mix it together with the Amazonia in to one homogeneous soil, failing that I'd layer the peat on top of the Amazonia, since it will probably form a better medium for the oxidised microzone, although a clay based soil like Amazonia could also prove effective.

You can soak the peat before hand if you want to, this will allow mineralisation to occur before you place it in the aquarium. However, I would place it directly in the tank since the ammonia given off will help cycle your tank.


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## faizal

Troi said:
			
		

> Hi Stan
> Tights might rot depending on what they are made of, it they are 100% nylon, then I guess no worries. Nevertheless, you can pick up specially made filter media bags on eBay for a couple of quid. I usually just use the amount of peat that would comfortably replace charcoal in the filter.



Troi,...I hate to be asking simple questions here but I haven't used peat before. Should I pre-boil the peat for 30 minutes or so before placing it in the filter or can i just toss it in there   ? My tap water is on the soft side maybe around 6.6 - 6.8

This is exciting. If it wasn't for UKAPS I would have given up on aquatic gardening last year but I learned how to "read" the plants and my high tech tank with the help given to me by the  UKAPS members. I've always liked the low tech approach too.


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## Tim Harrison

Hi faizal

It's ok to just toss in the filter, in a filter media bag of course, and use as is. Although I tend to use the amount that would comfortably replace charcoal, it does, after a while, tend to turn your tank water the colour of tea if there is too much and you don't do regular water changes. I don't think you need too much to derive the benefits of DOC and humic substances, so I think that the quantity used really depends on personal preference as to the degree of amber tinge you find attractive. 

As for your pH I doubt that a small amount of peat has the ability to drastically alter it, or water hardness for that matter, IME these parameters are usually quite robust especially when they are as near as damn it neutral.


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## PaulP

Hi Troi, Just came across your thread yesterday. Very nice!
I'm now looking to start my nano tank with this soil based substrate, while looking for everything I need for it i came across this. 
http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/grow-...tilisers/B-and-Q-Aquatic-Compost-20L-10288072
it contains sterilised loam, grit and peat. I popped down to a local B&Q just to have a quick peek it says on the bag there is approx 43% peat but does not give a percentage on the loam and grit. It is fertiliser free so it only contains the loam, grit and peat so will it be ok with fish? Have you come across this before or even used it?

Paul.


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