# What spec scales - Weighing EI chems



## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

I need scales to measure up solutions for EL.

Seen a few on the bay ranging from 0-200g and 0-1000g.  The latter seems more practical, and could have greater use, but just seeing what the verdict is out there? 200g one is far smaller of course which is nice.

Wondering if someone has bought a 200g and thought should have gone 1kg or vice versa.


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## Aqua sobriquet (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

200g is more than high enough unless you have another use in mind. Resolution is another consideration though, some measure down to .1 of a g some .01 or even finer in some cases. Depends how accurate you _want_ to be.


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> 200g is more than high enough unless you have another use in mind. Resolution is another consideration though, some measure down to .1 of a g some .01 or even finer in some cases. Depends how accurate you _want_ to be.



Not really, I aint in the drug business anymore seeing my pal Escobar got out the game, (lol, only kidding before you folk try PM'ing me)

I am buying it specifically for EI, so may as well get a 200g one I think, it should suffice, cant see any other use for it.


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## san-ho-zay (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

It's EI, by the way --Estimative Index.

This also seems to cause confusion in the El Natural & Low Tech forum, where there are questions about EI. These words look exactly the same in some fonts I guess.


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				san-ho-zay said:
			
		

> It's EI, by the way --Estimative Index.
> 
> This also seems to cause confusion in the El Natural & Low Tech forum, where there are questions about EI. These words look exactly the same in some fonts I guess.



Appoligies, yes EI, as in Estimative Index.  I have a habit of typing both, as I have both, so fingers flow faster then my head sometimes.


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## ian_m (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

I thought about getting a set of scales to weigh EI salts. But in the end the accuracy doesn't matter and an old teaspoon is perfectly fine. I use fully loaded "visit to salad bar in Pizza Hut" teaspoon full to make plants grow fast and not so fully loaded to grow a bit slower.

Waste of time measuring accurately as you might weigh to nearest gramme then throw it all away as you don't know the precise volume of your tank (hope you deducted substrate volume from true tank volume, as well as volume of plants and fish and added more to take into account the volume of water in your filter and pipes) then I hope you are accurately dispensing an exact amount into the water. Then I hope you are using RO water as you don't know with same level of accuracy whats in your water.....so the list of inaccuracies goes on making probably a teaspoon the most accurate measurement in the whole setup.  

Anyway do the plants bloomin care if its 20ppm or 20.5ppm  or even 30ppm, probably not.

ceg4048 will hopefully be along to confirm in a mo...


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				ian_m said:
			
		

> I thought about getting a set of scales to weigh EI salts. But in the end the accuracy doesn't matter and an old teaspoon is perfectly fine. I use fully loaded "visit to salad bar in Pizza Hut" teaspoon full to make plants grow fast and not so fully loaded to grow a bit slower.
> 
> Waste of time measuring accurately as you might weigh to nearest gramme then throw it all away as you don't know the precise volume of your tank (hope you deducted substrate volume from true tank volume, as well as volume of plants and fish and added more to take into account the volume of water in your filter and pipes) then I hope you are accurately dispensing an exact amount into the water. Then I hope you are using RO water as you don't know with same level of accuracy whats in your water.....so the list of inaccuracies goes on making probably a teaspoon the most accurate measurement in the whole setup.
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Accurancy isnt my concern, id prob get it wrong even if I tried, lol, its just to get near or there abouts.  I wasnt planning on subtracting scape, and all, but as I have read being over is better then being under. So not including those, ensures I am over I guess


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Jul 2012)

*What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				ian_m said:
			
		

> ceg4048 will hopefully be along to confirm in a mo...




As sure as bears sh*t in the woods.
I have seen him post this response as well as his 'co2 response' in numerous threads. All equate to the same thing, 
Ei dosing is not accurate, just an overload. So aslong as theres always a readily available nutrient supply, then your doing your bit.

Same with algae with co2 Or plant deficiencies.  Just have a look into his previous posts regarding the matters, and that will tell you all you need to know. On my understanding he is a very clever guy, and a great fountain of knowledge. 

All you need to do is listen  

Regards,


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

fluid sensor do some dosing spoons which are great, i gave up weighing a long time ago! was way to much hassle when you can just chuck the salts straight in the tank each day and oddly i see better growth since dosing straight to tank... dont ask me why, maybe because i always heap the spoons instead of flat  :?     Less time faffing more time enjoying your tank


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## Aqua sobriquet (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

Measuring volume rather than weight is valid and some recipes have both measurements which is very handy. Weighing only requires one "item" (the balance) which is suitable for measuring ferts for any size tank. Measuring volumes for small tanks, a 20L Nano for example could get tricky dosing directly with salts - or can you get a 1/64 spoon?


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Measuring volume rather than weight is valid and some recipes have both measurements which is very handy. Weighing only requires one "item" (the balance) which is suitable for measuring ferts for any size tank. Measuring volumes for small tanks, a 20L Nano for example could get tricky dosing directly with salts - or can you get a 1/64 spoon?



This is it see, I have a 25l cube and plan was to cunjur up a solution mix, rather then dosing directly.


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## Aqua sobriquet (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

You can still use spoons if it suits you, just use them to make up a 500ml or 1L of solution. 1L may last you some time on a small Nano!  

You've probably already seen it but if not this may be of use:

http://www.thenutrientcompany.com/aquarium/calculators/


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## ian_m (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*

Wooooow....for less price that a set of digital bong scales on Ebay you can get a much more accurate set of 24 finest stainless steel teaspoons for only £3.95 delivered. No need to wash them up afterwards just throw them away.  Fantastica accurate bargain.


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> You can still use spoons if it suits you, just use them to make up a 500ml or 1L of solution. 1L may last you some time on a small Nano!
> 
> You've probably already seen it but if not this may be of use:
> 
> http://www.thenutrientcompany.com/aquarium/calculators/



Thats was the site I was planning to use, make 1l solution and dose 15ml (  ) daily (between Chem/Trace ) with 2 days rest


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				ian_m said:
			
		

> Wooooow....for less price that a set of digital bong scales on Ebay you can get a much more accurate set of 24 finest stainless steel teaspoons for only £3.95 delivered. No need to wash them up afterwards just throw them away.  Fantastica accurate bargain.



500g Digital Scales was £4.50 i think (with Batteries included).  But spoons might be attractive, as I am certain I will get bored with measuring.

any links for the spoons, did you mean on ebay?


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## SO19Firearms (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Measuring volumes for small tanks, a 20L Nano for example could get tricky dosing directly with salts - or can you get a 1/64 spoon?



Of course you can - Here


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## ceg4048 (4 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

> I need scales to measure up solutions for EL.


 What the EL do you want to do that for? Those things are expensive as EL.

I've got a great idea; why not just pinch some powder up using your thumb and forefinger and call it good? It'll be OK if you've overestimated by 500% No one will report you to the police from EL.   

Cheers,


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

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Less then a jacks sire.

20 B&H cost more or 4 ltrs of fuel.


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## Aqua sobriquet (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				SO19Firearms said:
			
		

> Aqua sobriquet said:
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You know I'm going to edit my post to say 1/128 spoon don't you....  

sr20det: Will you be going all in one solution or macro/micro? Just wondered.


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## ceg4048 (4 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

> Less then a jacks sire.
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> 20 B&H cost more or 4 ltrs of fuel.


Well, here is the thing; This get's a bit deep so don't freak out too much at what I'm about to say. You can either use it or the throw it away. The choice is yours.
On the face of it, it's not really a big deal if someone uses a fancy electronic scale or fancy spoons or whatever contraption vendors choose to sell. Every now and again there is a really good reason for using these implements.

But 99% of us really don't have a good reason. Your reason, at a profound subliminal level is that you are a slave to The Matrix in exactly the same way as the test kit lovers are enslaved. The Matrix is a prison for your mind, and it reaches out to you as if you wore a halter and were held and steered by some unseen rider at the reins. At a very deep level you fear to get the numbers wrong, to stray to far from the magical ppm level beyond which you fear to tread. This is actually the same old test kit syndrome masquerading as a 1/64th spoon.

So although it doesn't really matter physically, psychologically, it means that you are still trapped, still plugged into The Matrix, and that your mind is working along the same irrational path that got  us all into trouble in the first place.

When you decide that no spoons are needed and that no scales are needed it will be like removing the halter and reins, and you will have freed your mind. Freeing your mind from spoons and scales although scary at first will allow you to travel wherever you want to go and in the future, your mind will be unfettered from the fears that clog thinking and problem solving. You will be able to learn more easily, troubleshoot problems more easily and you will be more rational in your approach to the tank.

FREE.....YOUR.....MIND....


Cheers,


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Jul 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

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That was heavy..!


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## ian_m (4 Jul 2012)

*Re: What spec scales - Weighing EL chems*



			
				sr20det said:
			
		

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Just Ebay for tea spoons.


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## CeeJay (4 Jul 2012)

Hi all


			
				ian_m said:
			
		

> Just Ebay for tea spoons.


Or the kitchen drawer


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## sr20det (4 Jul 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

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gobby neo, that moi


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## ceg4048 (5 Jul 2012)

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> That was heavy..!


Yeah, I know....it usually freaks people out. 
I never said it would be easy Neo, only that it would be the truth...  8) 

Cheers,


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## sr20det (5 Jul 2012)

Thanks bud, got the scales anyway, but will be taking a laid back aprroach with it.  Could have just used a teaspoon spoon I guess


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## Joecoral (5 Jul 2012)

So basically just bang in a few teaspoons of each as quantity is not relevant as long as the nutrient is in excess?


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## ian_m (5 Jul 2012)

The specialist equipment I have for mixing EI salts (other than 500ml dosing bottles supplied with my EI kit) are 6 teaspoons and 2 off 39p each Tesco 1litre jugs.

Each bag of salts has a teaspoon in and each jug has a spoon in. Pour in 500ml water into each jug and allow to cool, say whilst doing a water change. Open each bag, spoon out required amount (no searching for spoons, scales etc as in the bag), spoon in to relevant jug and mix with spoon. Pour resulting solution into bottle. Stack jugs and spoons away ready for next time, job done. No dirtying containers whilst weighing, no washing of spoons and containers, all can be done in kitchen sink in case of any spillage and/or mess.


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## sr20det (5 Jul 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

> The specialist equipment I have for mixing EI salts (other than 500ml dosing bottles supplied with my EI kit) are 6 teaspoons and 2 off 39p each Tesco 1litre jugs.
> 
> Each bag of salts has a teaspoon in and each jug has a spoon in. Pour in 500ml water into each jug and allow to cool, say whilst doing a water change. Open each bag, spoon out required amount (no searching for spoons, scales etc as in the bag), spoon in to relevant jug and mix with spoon. Pour resulting solution into bottle. Stack jugs and spoons away ready for next time, job done. No dirtying containers whilst weighing, no washing of spoons and containers, all can be done in kitchen sink in case of any spillage and/or mess.



Sounds perfect for me, almost low maintenance when you think about it.  I may follow the same approach bud


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## san-ho-zay (5 Jul 2012)

Joecoral said:
			
		

> So basically just bang in a few teaspoons of each as quantity is not relevant as long as the nutrient is in excess?


Maybe not quite as lax as that -- there's no point wasting the stuff and an even dosage is recommended.


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## ian_m (5 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

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What would make it quicker would be to pour water into dosing bottles, allow to cool a bit then put the salts straight into the bottle. However spooning salts into the neck of the bottles without spillage is not as easy as dropping into a jug and then pouring into the bottles. Also not too sure the dosing bottles would stand boiling water as well as the jugs do.


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## sr20det (5 Jul 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

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Can I use a glass jug? I wouldnt be too keen in puring hot water into plastic :?


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## ian_m (5 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

> Can I use a glass jug? I wouldnt be too keen in puring hot water into plastic :?


A assume so ? My plastic ones were only 39p from Tesco and are absolutely fine with boiling water. I would be more worried about breakages with glass (and cost).

I just bung my plastic ones in my bucket of fish water changing bits after use, no worry about breakage (or cost).


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## Aqua sobriquet (6 Jul 2012)

No need for jugs, just use a wide mouth bottle:


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## sr20det (9 Jul 2012)

Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> No need for jugs, just use a wide mouth bottle:



Even better i guess, I need to get my hands on a dosing bottle mind, i see the doising bottles offered but seeing as I will be doing a nano with all in one liquid solution maybe a small spoon will suffice.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

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Or buy a syringe? Good for all round dosing including accurate Easy carbo? 

I have a few


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## sr20det (9 Jul 2012)

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Or buy a syringe? Good for all round dosing including accurate Easy carbo?
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> I have a few



Likewise I already have a few, 5ml and 1ml ones, so should be enough, i may get one 10ml one though.  I like the idea of the sqeeze into a 5ml compartment and then pour  like the dosing bottle I have seen, but not sure if they are 5ml or more


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Jul 2012)

You can get them in 250ml which has a 10ml one, or 500ml with a 20ml one.

Im sure thats what my TPN+ and TPN are at home mate.


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## Aqua sobriquet (9 Jul 2012)

I only use the wide mouth bottles for mixing/storage. I have dosing bottles and bought a pack of mixed syringes on ebay cheap - 1,5,10 and 20Ml.


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## spyder (9 Jul 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

> What would make it quicker would be to pour water into dosing bottles, allow to cool a bit then put the salts straight into the bottle. However spooning salts into the neck of the bottles without spillage is not as easy as dropping into a jug and then pouring into the bottles.




Your almost there. How about using a plastic funnel to add your salts to an empty dosing bottle then measuring out water from the tap into a measuring jug, pouring into dosing bottle, cap it and shake it well.


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## ian_m (9 Jul 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

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I have all changed now as I have moved (or will have shortly when fitted) to auto dosing.

See  http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22332&p=229000#p229000.

Already mixed the 2 litre bottles of mAcro and mIcro. I filled my 39p 1litre jugs with 750ml water, left to cool, then added double dose of dry salts (for 1litre equivalent), which dissolved OK, poured into litre bottles and topped up to 1litre from cooled kettle.

My dosing setup may get fitted to tank tonight, when I have finished helping make a Greek costume for my son and helping my daughter with a weather vane.....


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## sr20det (12 Jul 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

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Have been following that Ian, does look high tech indeed, not sure as at min, my set up is a nano, so small doses manually work just as well , holidays and such would be interesting, but missed days here and there wont kill anything I think.


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## ian_m (12 Jul 2012)

sr20det said:
			
		

> Have been following that Ian, does look high tech indeed, not sure as at min, my set up is a nano, so small doses manually work just as well , holidays and such would be interesting, but missed days here and there wont kill anything I think.


Another low tech way I thought of dosing, is to purchase loads of 30ml plastic bottles (@29p each http://www.ampulla.co.uk/ROUND-HDPE-PLASTIC-BOTTLES-30ML---250ML-/c-1-115/) or 15ml dropper bottles (@30p each) and prefill them with the required amount of mix. You then just empty a bottle each day or every other day, job done. Thought about doing this so my neighbour could fertilise the tank whilst I am away, but they are "scared" of our house alarm  :? so an alternative had to be found.

I have updated my peristaltic pump thread with some more pictures. Hopefully testing tonight. I have some spare containers for water so I can test the flow which should be about 3ml/minute.


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