# siporax vs matrix vs biohome etc



## Boshk

I know there are tons of threads about this....just wanna see what the current thinking is, if there is any...

For canister Eheim classic 600, I'm still using their standard package, thinking of putting more media in there for 140L tank after watching that pondguru youtube video on setup/bacteria/biohome media

I can get a hold of:
Sera Siporax
Seachem Matrix
Eheim substratpro (most $$)
biohome ultimate..(doubtful its available in Hong Kong)

any thoughts which would be a better, more effective addition to my canister?

ps still cycling tank, just waiting for nitrite to drop to 0


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## foxfish

You don't say much about your set up.....in many planted tanks the filter media is not that important!
In fact more often than not, it is recommended to remove some of the media to gain better & more powerful flow.
The plants themselves are very good at filtering the water & hopefully you will keep up high maintenance schedules & water changes so don't worry about to much about the best bio media just get lots of plants.....


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## nel.pogorzelska

Get the cheapest. Actually I've switched most of my biomedia for sponges. Think about the substrate in your tank. I have around 50 liters of sand in my tank, my filter (eheim 2028) is around 8 liters. The filter is nothing compared to all the substrate where bacteria live too. So I'm using my canister mostly for the flow and polishing the water.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





foxfish said:


> In fact more often than not, it is recommended to remove some of the media to gain better & more powerful flow.The plants themselves are very good at filtering the water & hopefully you will keep up high maintenance schedules & water changes so don't worry about to much about the best bio media just get lots of plants.....


That one.





Boshk said:


> watching that pondguru youtube video on setup/bacteria/biohome media


I'd take everything you see, and read, on the internet about biological filtration, nitrification and filter media with a <"pinch of salt">, a lot of it is <"smoke and mirrors">. 

Have a look at <"What filter media is best...">and <"Ammonia time-bomb carpet">. 





nel.pogorzelska said:


> Think about the substrate in your tank. I have around 50 liters of sand in my tank, my filter (eheim 2028) is around 8 liters. The filter is nothing compared to all the substrate where bacteria live too. So I'm using my canister mostly for the flow and polishing the water.


This is a really important point, when you factor in the rhizosphere surrounding plant roots in you get some idea of the volume of material that can support microbial activity. 





Boshk said:


> still cycling tank, just waiting for nitrite to drop to 0


You don't need to cycle a planted tank with added ammonia, in fact it almost certainly does more harm than good. You can just let the plants grow in. 

There is a more complete discussion of this in <"Do I need to  cycle......">.

cheers Darrel


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## Boshk

Its a 140L tank, very lightly planted atm. I am cycling it fishless but instead of starring at a empty tank, I figured I'll start the plants first, hence 'waiting for nitrite' to drop

I don't really want a complete sand to water level plants growing everywhere, nice balance so I can see my planned tetra, cories, shrimps.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Boshk said:


> I am cycling it fishless but instead of starring at a empty tank, I figured I'll start the plants first, hence 'waiting for nitrite' to drop


That is really it, once you've added plants if you have both light and ammonia you will get a huge algae bloom (algae is just the "plants you don't want"), they are still plants. 

The other problem is that the microbial assemblage you get at high ammonia bioloads is different from the one you have when the aquarium is running. I won't go into the details in this post, but have a look at <"Oxygen levels required...">. 

If you don't want a lot of submerged plants, you can use floating plants, and there are actually advantages to these, they have what Diana Walstad called the  <"aerial advantage">. 





Boshk said:


> so I can see my planned tetra, cories, shrimps


You definitely want a tank with robust filtration, because shrimps are sensitive to deteriorating water conditions. 

cheers Darrel


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## Boshk

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is really it, once you've added plants if you have both light and ammonia you will get a huge algae bloom (algae is just the "plants you don't want"), they are still plants.
> 
> The other problem is that the microbial assemblage you get at high ammonia bioloads is different from the one you have when the aquarium is running. I won't go into the details in this post, but have a look at <"Oxygen levels required...">.
> 
> If you don't want a lot of submerged plants, you can use floating plants, and there are actually advantages to these, they have what Diana Walstad called the  <"aerial advantage">. You definitely want a tank with robust filtration, because shrimps are sensitive to deteriorating water conditions.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thanks. My ammonia is actually zero now, it can actually drop to zero within 24hrs if I dose around 2ppm of ammonia into tank so Nitrosococcus are present, its my nitrite which is slow at dropping which I believe are the '2nd lot' of bacteria Nitrospira I need before the tank is cycled enough for light stocking of fish etc.

I'm leaving the ammonia at zero, did a water change and nitrite is at 1ppm atm, see what happens in 24hrs.

I do like the floating plants, had Frogbit in previous tank, thinking about Frogbit or Duckweed...


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Boshk said:


> I do like the floating plants, had Frogbit in previous tank,


I have Frogbit in all my tanks, both for the "aerial advantage" and as  a <"visual indicator of when the plants need feeding">. 





Boshk said:


> My ammonia is actually zero now, it can actually drop to zero within 24hrs if I dose around 2ppm of ammonia into tank


I'm a bit of sceptic about measurement of monovalent ions like ammonium (NH4+) and nitrate (NO3-), it  isn't that you can't measure them accurately, you can, but there are provisos. Have a look at <"Testing strips vs......"> for some discussion. 





Boshk said:


> ........so Nitrosococcus are present, its my nitrite which is slow at dropping which I believe are the '2nd lot' of bacteria Nitrospira I need before the tank


This is really it, research on aquarium filters has found that we need the high pH or ammonia loading that the traditional view of cycling requires, it isn't a linear process and there is no switch from "non-cycled" to "cycled".

All the recent scientific research (using <"PCR to amplify RNA profiles"> ) points to aquarium nitrification being overwhelmingly carried out by Archaea and COMAMMOX <"_Nitrospira_">, and they don't have the same requirements for ammonia or carbonate hardness that the bacteria which carry out ammonia oxidation in sewage treatment. If you want some references start with  <"Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Comammox Nitrospira"> & <"Kinetic analysis of a complete nitrifier reveals an oligotrophic lifestyle">.

We actually know that high ammonia levels inhibit the growth of _Nitrospira. _This is from the paper in Nature linked below 





> Here we isolate a pure culture of a comammox bacterium, _Nitrospira inopinata_, and show that it is adapted to slow growth in oligotrophic and dynamic habitats on the basis of a high affinity for ammonia, low maximum rate of ammonia oxidation, high growth yield compared to canonical nitrifiers, and genomic potential for alternative metabolisms


 The bottom line is that low ammonia loadings create a diverse microbial fauna that can respond changes in ammonia level, and that plant/microbe biofiltration is about an order of magnitude more effective than "microbe only" biofiltration.

cheers Darrel


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## MirandaB

Don't get me started on the pondguru  he offers absolutely no scientific evidence as to why biohome is the best media.
I tried it once and found it to be no different to any other sintered glass media other than it broke up after only a few months.
He talks the talk and that's about it,at the end of the day he's just trying to get you to buy his product and pretty much slates every other manufacturer whilst doing so.


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