# Nano Tank (ish)



## ArronM (15 May 2022)

Hey,

So I’m going to purchase this kit; Strideways Sado 45P Aquarium Kit

Thoughts and opinions please  I’m wanting to also co2 inject this tank and create a carpet for the tank, it will be a shrimp / chilli rasboras tank. 
Will this tank work for what I want? 

Also can anyone recommend a co2 setup for this tank?


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

Yes that will work just fine mate. As for CO2 you have CO2 Art as a forum sponsor and a wealth of knowledge on hand with them.

You could run one of their regulators off whichever Co2 bottle you choose and just use a little in tank diffuser.

A tank that size a decent size bottle will lay you a fair while.


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

Did you decide how you’ll be filtering the tank?


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## ArronM (15 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Did you decide how you’ll be filtering the tank?



Yes buddy I’ll be using a small internal filter, this one is in line Oase BioCompact 50

Unless you can advice more in an internal or sponge or hang on filter?


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## ArronM (15 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Yes that will work just fine mate. As for CO2 you have CO2 Art as a forum sponsor and a wealth of knowledge on hand with them.
> 
> You could run one of their regulators off whichever Co2 bottle you choose and just use a little in tank diffuser.
> 
> A tank that size a decent size bottle will lay you a fair while.



I’ve been looking at there stuff, also the disposable setups from tropica but after some research they don’t seen to be worth the penny,


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> I’ve been looking at there stuff, also the disposable setups from tropica but after some research they don’t seen to be worth the penny,


It’s worthwhile investing in a proper setup as it will last a long time and you can always run a second tank off it.


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> Yes buddy I’ll be using a small internal filter, this one is in line Oase BioCompact 50
> 
> Unless you can advice more in an internal or sponge or hang on filter?


Internal or hang filters aren’t my area of knowledge, I’ve used both and couldn’t stand them. I’m a huge advocate for canister and glass pipes.

Anything by Oase is going to work well, same for sicce or Eheim. Just go with what will offer the best surface agitation, you’ll need gas exchange more so now you’re looking at Co2 injection.


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## ArronM (15 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Internal or hang filters aren’t my area of knowledge, I’ve used both and couldn’t stand them. I’m a huge advocate for canister and glass pipes.
> 
> Anything by Oase is going to work well, same for sicce or Eheim. Just go with what will offer the best surface agitation, you’ll need gas exchange more so now you’re looking at Co2 injection.


My issue for this tank is going to be that it’s not going to have room for a canister filter to go under it. I had a canister FX Filter on my 240L community tank that was fantastic.


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> My issue for this tank is going to be that it’s not going to have room for a canister filter to go under it. I had a canister FX Filter on my 240L community tank that was fantastic.


Yeah that’s fair enough, you can only work with you have. 
There are tiny canister filters out there, you’ll find one on Juris’ channel. A gent on here also made one.
I’ve nothing against internal filters, they do the job just as well as any other providing it’s used in the right tank.
Oase do an internal corner one that can house a heater too, I’ve used this in the past and just built the scape around it (leaving room to get it in and out). 
Rockwork or wood can easily hide it with the flow jetting out over the top.

I liked that filter because you can have a steam of flow or have it spray like a spray bar.


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## seedoubleyou (15 May 2022)

The smallest they have is 50, I’m sure you can get smaller, like a 25 or something.











						Oase BioPlus Thermo
					

Oase BioPlus Thermo The BioPlus Thermo is a very smart internal filter with the quick magnetic release filter and their removable and intergrated heater makes an easier lifestyle. Oase is one of the biggest pioneers in the aquatic industry with their reliable products and build quality. Product...




					www.horizonaquatics.co.uk


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## ArronM (16 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> The smallest they have is 50, I’m sure you can get smaller, like a 25 or something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These don’t look bad at all, I may go for one and see how it goes. Still debating on co2 as I can get a 2KG fire extinguishers for £10 looks new but unsure if it’s in date does that matter for using it for an aquarium?

Then I could by thr co2 art kit that’s about £160.


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## seedoubleyou (16 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> These don’t look bad at all, I may go for one and see how it goes. Still debating on co2 as I can get a 2KG fire extinguishers for £10 looks new but unsure if it’s in date does that matter for using it for an aquarium?
> 
> Then I could by thr co2 art kit that’s about £160.


I’ve never used a fire extinguisher but I’m fairly sure they’re safe. They’re just not fit for the intended purpose.
You’d also be installing a regulator which in theory would make it safer?


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## ArronM (16 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> I’ve never used a fire extinguisher but I’m fairly sure they’re safe. They’re just not fit for the intended purpose.
> You’d also be installing a regulator which in theory would make it safer?



What bottle would you advice otherwise bud?


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## Lynnzer (16 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> Yes buddy I’ll be using a small internal filter, this one is in line Oase BioCompact 50
> 
> Unless you can advice more in an internal or sponge or hang on filter?


I bought that myself about 3 weeks ago and had to put a sponge filter in it that was already in use from another tank alongide until it got properly filled with the beneficial bacteria. I got lots of problems with nitrite/nitrate and even on one occasion got a green ammonia reading. 
I did daily, even twice daily, water changes to try and resolve the issue. The sponge filter is only small but large enough to work the tank it was in so I was really miffed about the situation. The Oase filters clogged up very quickly every time and cleaning them was easier said than done. 
There are 2 sections the filter. One has a normal sponge and the next has a finer sponge with activated carbon. The carbon bits were just getting absolutely gummed up in no time and although there were replacements in the purchased package, it seems a bit off if you have to change the carbon each time. I didn't of course as I washed them in tank water. Another thing is that one of the suckers has a mounting hole directly over the carbon filter section and every time I tried to slip the medium back into the filter body it pushed the sucker off.
I also increased the airflow through the sponge filter by joing the unused pipes from 3 outlets with normal Y junction joiners. That worked and the water readings quickly got back to normal. However I don't want the sponge in the tank for longer than I need, and I lost faith in the Oase.
In the end I just went online and bought an external filter. So much easier and even has a UV light. The change in the water was almost immediate. Although I didn't even think that the water clarity was in any way impaired, when I got the external filter running it was as if I had just had fresh new and completely transparent water, almost as if the fish were floating in the air.
Oh, The tank was fully cycled before this situation happened.
It's an Oase tank 50cm wide that has around 14 green neon tetras whcih I think are far better than the run of the mill Neon Tetras being brighter and smaller, then there's a single Santa Maria Endler, the other 3 having jumped out of the tank, and a pair of Scarlett Badis with a troop of 4 King Kong shrimp.
All of them are doing nicely together though the Badis tend to hide in a tunnel area in the wood behind the lower Anubia.
You can see them all happily going about their business from this link: TheBridesMother - Twitch

I have CO2 for the tank as it's heavily planted. I used to do it the cheap way by using 2 x 2ltr coke bottles with citric acid in 1 of them and bicarb in the other. You'll have seen them going cheap on fleabay. They did a pretty good job but just looked $hite.
Not wanting to buy the ones that the professionals use at way over £100 each, I opted for these and they are really good, really easy to use and smart looking as well. My 2nd arrives last Wednesday. They only took a couple of weeks to arrive as well.


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## seedoubleyou (16 May 2022)

I always used to buy ista 2L bottles. They’re not cheap and I couldn’t find a place to refill. I don’t mind spending the money so it want an issue for me.

Plenty of other on here will advise where to buy bottles.

As for the above. Not to knock @Lynnzer but if you buy cheap you buy twice and a co2 regulator is 100% something I would not skimp out on, you could end up suffocating your tank, and for the safety of yourself too should it fail and unload a bottle of co2 into your face. Ouch !!

I’m not sure what filter he’s talking about either. The oase one I linked you too, does come with sponges, just take one out and replace with media. Then replace the smaller one with floss.


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## Lynnzer (16 May 2022)

It's the BioCompact I bought. And hey... from Horizon. This is my all-time favourite place.
I think the BioCompact was just a bit smaller than I needed though but I still stand with the problems I stated. 
My tank had been sponge filtered since the original aquascape. The filter was previously fully used for around 6 weeks in a 60ltr tank so I didn't need to do a fishless cycle. 
I just added fish and away I went. I had that sponge filter in the tank until I put the Oase in when I replaced it with a smaller one albeit another that was fully utilised in another tank.
It was then that the water parameters started to go wrong. I'm not blaming the Oase for that as I found that increasing the airflow through the sponge filter brought things back to normal. However, I do stand by the fact that the filter gummed up very quickly even though it was being thoroughly filtered prior to its use. The activated charcoal was worse. It just completely gummed and shut off water flow. The suction cup is also a fact. It just pops out when you slide the filter medium holders back into the body. I've had to superglue it into place.

I totally agree in the "buy it cheap, buy it twice" philosophy.
I had no problems with the guages on the old two bottle setup for the CO2 generators. They were of good quality. It's just that having two big coke bottles on the desktop was a bit of a no-no.
The new ones from the link I pointed to are superb. Excellent quality, easy to refill, and inexpensive. Not cheap. Just inexpensive by comparison.
I have 2 of them running now. 
The two tanks to the right that are aquacaped use them with superb results


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## Andy Pierce (16 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> So I’m going to purchase this kit; Strideways Sado 45P Aquarium Kit
> Also can anyone recommend a co2 setup for this tank?


About 30L total volume water for you so you could go with disposable CO2 bottles supplied for MiG welding in either 600g (Clarke CO2 Gas Cylinder (600g) - Machine Mart - Machine Mart) or 850g (Co2 Gas Cylinder (Disposable)) formats - I've used both successfully.  On my 40L tank the 600g bottle lasts 3 or 4 months.  These will need either an adaptor to convert the output to something the CO2 art regulator/solenoid/needle_valve system can handle, or you can homebrew with a regulator designed for disposable bottles (The Welders Warehouse - Gas Regulator for Throwaway Gas Cylinders with 2 Gauges) which is what I do.  Then you also have to sort solenoid (on/off timing) and needle valve yourself, which is pretty straightforward.


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## ArronM (17 May 2022)

Right guys and girls,
I did go for this tank. Strideways Sado 45P Aquarium Kit

With all your help and input I’ve decided to go for a full all in one kit from co2 art. Investment at its finest.

But before I go and buy the co2 kit I’m now wanting advice on what filter and heater to go for for this tank.
I can’t go external as where it will be placed so I am looked at going internal for this one it will have shrimp and chilli rasboras in so I’d want it as stable as possible after my fishless cycle I will be using aqua soil rocks and wood, my aim is to make the scape without plants and then cycle the tank to get it stable ready for shrimp to go into so yeah I need an internal filter for this. I am however going to upgrade my Roma 90 to an external at some point after this


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## Wookii (18 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> Right guys and girls,
> I did go for this tank. Strideways Sado 45P Aquarium Kit
> 
> With all your help and input I’ve decided to go for a full all in one kit from co2 art. Investment at its finest.
> ...



Is a HOB filter not an option - generally a lot easier to maintain than internals. The new Oase BioStyle units look nice and slick - I have an 180 on back order, but the smaller 75 might be suitable for this tank:









						BioStyle 75 grey
					






					www.oase.com
				




I know there will be people that disagree with me, but for me personally 32 litres is too small for fish, particularly for an active fish like Chilli's. As a shrimp tank, it's perfect though.


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## LondonAquascaper (18 May 2022)

The best HOB is the Seachem Tidal in my opinion. Great flow, good design, easy to clean and have a built in surface skimmer.


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## Wookii (18 May 2022)

LondonAquascaper said:


> The best HOB is the Seachem Tidal in my opinion. Great flow, good design, easy to clean and have a built in surface skimmer.



It's a good HOB filter for sure, and there is a lot to like, but I'm not a fan, mainly because I don't agree with this bit:



LondonAquascaper said:


> easy to clean



I've found it a PITA largely because  its a  vertical bottom to top design, so the pre-filter sponge is on the very bottom. So to keep the prefilter sponge clean you have to remove everything, the internal basket and all your filter media, to get to the bottom prefilter sponge.

I much prefer a horizontal filter design, where you can just remove a single vertical piece of sponge, clean it and slot it back in in a fraction of the time without even having to turn the filter off. I have this on my cheapo APS HOB and its much easier to live with.:







The new Oase units have this arrangement too, plus there may well be enough room to sneak a small heater in the rear (unconfirmed):


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## ArronM (18 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> Is a HOB filter not an option - generally a lot easier to maintain than internals. The new Oase BioStyle units look nice and slick - I have an 180 on back order, but the smaller 75 might be suitable for this tank:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am more than happy to only have shrimp as that was my initial idea! And I’m all for these hob filters if it would work well with what I’m trying to achieve and looking into it it has bio media also. Which is a bonus.

But would I still cycle the tank or do a planted growth cycle just with Shrimp being so sensitive to water parameters.


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## Wookii (18 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> But would I still cycle the tank or do a planted growth cycle just with Shrimp being so sensitive to water parameters.



It depends what shrimp you're thinking of going for, and what type of soil.

For example if you're going for something robust like Neo's, and using a soil that isn't loaded with ammonia like Dennerle Shrimp King etc, then I would plant straight away fairly heavily, and spend a week or two getting things like CO2 dialled in, and the plants actively growing, and then think about adding some shrimp.

However if you're going with an ammonia enriched soil (Tropica, ADA etc) then personally I would dark start with lots of water changes for a week or two to flush out the surplus ammonia that makes its way into the water column, drain and plant heavily, and then spend a week or two getting things dialled in and plants actively growing before adding the shrimp.

If, however, you're planning on going for more sensitive Caridina - especially any of the more sensitive heavy interbred varieties (Galaxy Fishbones etc) then I would factor in a much longer run in time for the tank to mature and stabilise before adding them. Losses are painful if you're paying £5-10 per shrimp, and small tanks are much harder to stabilise than larger ones.


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## ArronM (18 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> It depends what shrimp you're thinking of going for, and what type of soil.
> 
> For example if you're going for something robust like Neo's, and using a soil that isn't loaded with ammonia like Dennerle Shrimp King etc, then I would plant straight away fairly heavily, and spend a week or two getting things like CO2 dialled in, and the plants actively growing, and then think about adding some shrimp.
> 
> ...



So I’m going with a thin soil like tropica yeah, I was gonna seed the filter for a week before hand in my other tank. So the amonia will be fed to the Bactria in the filter? Unsure if rush would work but I guess I’ll not plant till after ammonia is 0?


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## Wookii (18 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> So I’m going with a thin soil like tropica yeah, I was gonna seed the filter for a week before hand in my other tank. So the amonia will be fed to the Bactria in the filter? Unsure if rush would work but I guess I’ll not plant till after ammonia is 0?



Always a good idea to seed the filter if you can. Seed the substrate too if possible - either by squeezing filer sponges into it when adding to the tank, or actually some old substrate from your other tank and mixing with the new.

It will give the tank a good jump start, but still won't be enough to deal with the sudden inrush of ammonia from the soil. Even a complete mature filter can struggle with that. That's just best removed by large water changes.

You can plant straight away, and many people do without major issues, but you also see a lot of issues with plant melt at that high ammonia stage, so I prefer to just wait and run it dark for a week, which also is a useful time to tweak hardscape etc ahead of planting.


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## LondonAquascaper (18 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> It's a good HOB filter for sure, and there is a lot to like, but I'm not a fan, mainly because I don't agree with this bit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, well in my setup, I just have all the media in the basket, and then filter floss on top, which gets changed every week. No other sponges etc.


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## ArronM (18 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> Always a good idea to seed the filter if you can. Seed the substrate too if possible - either by squeezing filer sponges into it when adding to the tank, or actually some old substrate from your other tank and mixing with the new.
> 
> It will give the tank a good jump start, but still won't be enough to deal with the sudden inrush of ammonia from the soil. Even a complete mature filter can struggle with that. That's just best removed by large water changes.
> 
> You can plant straight away, and many people do without major issues, but you also see a lot of issues with plant melt at that high ammonia stage, so I prefer to just wait and run it dark for a week, which also is a useful time to tweak hardscape etc ahead of planting.


Brilliant, so I could essentially just add the hard scape and soil and do water changes till ammonia drops to 0 then drain the tank completely and start planting? Would I need the filter in at that stage? As that would be a good time to put the filter in my older tank to seed while I’m doing the other.

At what point would you add the co2? Maybe after the amonia drop from the soil and then add the plants while playing with the co2 to stabilise then add the shrimp or fish when I see growth? My only issue is then their won’t of been a cycle so that’s what confuses me a little.


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## Eddie2006 (19 May 2022)

i really sugest the oase biostyle hob filters


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## Wookii (19 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> Brilliant, so I could essentially just add the hard scape and soil and do water changes till ammonia drops to 0 then drain the tank completely and start planting?



In essence yes. a couple of near 100% water changes during the dark start week, will help flush it out.



ArronM said:


> Would I need the filter in at that stage?



Yes, have the filter running from the start, seeded with some media from your old filter.



ArronM said:


> As that would be a good time to put the filter in my older tank to seed while I’m doing the other.



Running the filter on your old tank won't particularly seed it very fast. You can either put the media from the new filter, inside your old filter if there is room, and keep it in there fore a week to start to populate it with the bacteria already in there, or better yet, take some of the media out the old filter, and put it in the new filter running on the new tank.



ArronM said:


> At what point would you add the co2? Maybe after the amonia drop from the soil and then add the plants while playing with the co2 to stabilise



CO2 isn't required until you plant the tank out. You can install all the gear in advance, but its a waste of gas until you have plants in there that can use it.



ArronM said:


> then add the shrimp or fish when I see growth? My only issue is then their won’t of been a cycle so that’s what confuses me a little.



The traditional idea of a 'cycle' doesn't really apply to planted tanks, as plants will consume the lions share of any ammonia produced by the system. The whole 'cycle' issue is also largely avoided if you've seeded the filter with old filter media.

As I said, wait for the plants to start growing well, and then add the shrimp as their bioload is negligible. If you feel compelled to add fish, wait a few more weeks before doing so.


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## seedoubleyou (19 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> In essence yes. a couple of near 100% water changes during the dark start week, will help flush it out.


If he’s running his filter on the tank during this period, why not let the bacteria deal with it? Esther than just removing it with a water change?


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## Wookii (19 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> If he’s running his filter on the tank during this period, why not let the bacteria deal with it? Esther than just removing it with a water change?



A few reasons, the first being that the filter won't remove levels of ammonia that high, which can get over 2ppm. It takes too long for the levels of bacteria to build up high enough to deal with it, even on a full and fully matured filter, let alone a brand new one with some seed media.

The second being that it is now thought that different types of micro-organisms can be responsible for nitrification, and those can vary depending on the prevailing ammonia levels. There is a good post from @dw1305 on it somewhere, but I can't finds it, so hopefully Darrel can link it in. It is the reason it is no longer recommend to add ammonia to help create a 'cycle' on the stat up of a new tank, as the bacteria that develop under those high ammonia levels, are unlikely to be the same organisms that deal with nitrification once the system has matured.


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## dw1305 (19 May 2022)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> The second being that it is now thought that different types of micro-organisms can be responsible for nitrification, and those can vary depending on the prevailing ammonia levels. There is a good post from @dw1305 on it somewhere, but I can't finds it, so hopefully Darrel can link it in. It is the reason it is no longer recommend to add ammonia to help create a 'cycle' on the stat up of a new tank, as the bacteria that develop under those high ammonia levels, are unlikely to be the same organisms that deal with nitrification once the system has matured.


There are a few different threads and posts.

Most of it get a run-out in <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements"> and the Aquarium Co-Op's <"Seasoned Tank Time"> thread.

There are some <"scientific references"> in <"Tanks without fish">.

I haven't had time to have a proper look lately, but there will be lots more recent  papers on the <"microbial assemblage"> in  aquarium filters etc.

This is one for the <"snail fancier">, I'm guessing that this is a subject area where we haven't even really scratched the surface:

Chang, J., Ji, B., Li, W. _et al.  _(2021) _Bellamya aeruginosa_ (Reeve) regulates bacterial community features in sediment harbouring different submerged macrophytes under different nutrient levels. _Aquat Sci_ *83*, 35 . <"https://doi.org/10.1007/s00027-021-00793-9">


> _...... The interactions between sediment microbial assemblages and submerged macrophytes in aquatic ecosystems can be potentially regulated by benthic macrofauna, and the regulation effect may be closely related to macrophyte species with distinct properties; however, little information on this is available. An aquarium experiment was designed to evaluate the role of snail Bellamya aeruginosa (Reeve) in regulating sediment bacterial communities associated with two common types of submerged macrophytes, Ceratophyllum demersum (L.) and Hydrilla verticillata (L. f.) Royle ........._



cheers Darrel


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## seedoubleyou (19 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> A few reasons, the first being that the filter won't remove levels of ammonia that high, which can get over 2ppm. It takes too long for the levels of bacteria to build up high enough to deal with it, even on a full and fully matured filter, let alone a brand new one with some seed media.
> 
> The second being that it is now thought that different types of micro-organisms can be responsible for nitrification, and those can vary depending on the prevailing ammonia levels. There is a good post from @dw1305 on it somewhere, but I can't finds it, so hopefully Darrel can link it in. It is the reason it is no longer recommend to add ammonia to help create a 'cycle' on the stat up of a new tank, as the bacteria that develop under those high ammonia levels, are unlikely to be the same organisms that deal with nitrification once the system has matured.


Good information mate thanks for that. Was a genuine question not trying to be smart. 
I’m looking to do the dark method when i restart my tank as freshwater, so it’s good to have an understanding of why I’m doing something rather than just because others are.


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## seedoubleyou (19 May 2022)

@dw1305 as above cheers mate, it’s all way above my level of intelligence, I’ll just take it that a filter can’t handle that level of ammonia so the large water changes is the best way of exporting it. Dilution, pollution and all that.


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## dw1305 (19 May 2022)

Hi all,


seedoubleyou said:


> I’m looking to do the dark method when i restart my tank as freshwater, so it’s good to have an understanding of why I’m doing something rather than just because others are.


Dark start is useful if you have a an active substrate <"which is initially is ammonia rich">, like ADA Amazonia, and you want to deplete that ammonia and develop a <"complex assemblage of microbes"> within the filter.

If you combine light and ammonia you are likely to get a lot of algal growth, hence the dark start.


seedoubleyou said:


> ...........  I’ll just take it that a filter can’t handle that level of ammonia so the large water changes is the best way of exporting it. Dilution, pollution and all that.


Yes, if you have high levels of ammonia you need to remove it via water changes etc. , but you don't need to add ammonia to cycle the tank, all you need to do is plant the tank and then wait until you have a reasonably large plant mass in active growth, it really is as simple as that.

I've been advocating this for a long time, but it has had a bit more publicity recently due to Cory (from the Aquarium Co-Op) talking about this as <"Seasoned Tank Time">.



cheers Darrel


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## seedoubleyou (19 May 2022)

I’ve always been an advocate of watching what my tank is doing and reacting to that rather than numbers.
I think tests are great when your stumped and kind physically see an issue.
Even when I kept a reef tank, I never tested for any parameter (other than temp and SG). I much prefer observing my tank and spotting issues that way.

I believe you learn far more.


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## Wookii (19 May 2022)

seedoubleyou said:


> Good information mate thanks for that. Was a genuine question not trying to be smart.
> I’m looking to do the dark method when i restart my tank as freshwater, so it’s good to have an understanding of why I’m doing something rather than just because others are.



I learned my lesson a little while ago when I planted from the get go, with fresh Tropica soil, and lost lots of my Buce leaves - probably half my plants. Never again!


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## dw1305 (19 May 2022)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> and lost lots of my Buce leaves - probably half my plants.


I'm guessing that Aroids, in general, don't respond very well to <"high ammonia levels">.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (19 May 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm guessing that Aroids, in general, don't respond very well to <"high ammonia levels">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Yes, it’s like it’s some kind of shock response. The leaves didn’t melt or deteriorate, they  were perfectly intact - just floating on the surface everyday when I got home from work!

Quite a few stem plants and in vitro plants melted too.


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## dw1305 (19 May 2022)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> The leaves didn’t melt or deteriorate, they were perfectly intact - just floating on the surface everyday when I got home from work!


Exactly the same with the _Anubias, _leaves intact, but detached, and a totally disintegrated rhizome.

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (19 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> The traditional idea of a 'cycle' doesn't really apply to planted tanks, as plants will consume the lions share of any ammonia produced by the system.


Hi @Wookii 

So true. I have a 30 litre cube that has been running for just over six months. Water is purified by one large(ish) Java Fern. A skimmer provides flow, a clear water surface and gas exchange. Fish provide a source of ammonium. Oh, and much pleasure!

JPC


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## ArronM (21 May 2022)

Thanks for all your great advice! I’m onto a winner!

So, @Wookii do you have a dark start guide? And would you advice only using the soil tropica with nothing under it?


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## Wookii (23 May 2022)

ArronM said:


> Thanks for all your great advice! I’m onto a winner!
> 
> So, @Wookii do you have a dark start guide?



I don't have a guide, no - but its a relatively simple process.

Just set your tank up as normal - add all the soil and hardscape, and scape it until you are happy with the layout. Then fill the tank and run it with the filter as normal, but without the light or any plants added, for around a week or two. Do a couple of large (80% +) water changes during that time.

Then once you have all of your plants, drain all the water out of the tank, plant it and then refill with fresh water. Then run it as normal with the light on, and CO2 if you are using it, dosing ferts straight away.

Once you are getting some good growth on plants you can start to think about adding livestock. Typically this would be around 2-3 weeks for shrimp and snails which have a low bio-load, and then maybe starting adding fish slowly 2-3 weeks after that.



ArronM said:


> And would you advice only using the soil tropica with nothing under it?



It's entirely up to you. If you have any raised areas at the rear, it can help to add some filter bags filled with crushed lava rock or other coarse aggregate, before adding the soil but you don't have to - it just saves some of the cost of soil. Some people like to add a layer of other material under the soil (e.g. ADA Powersand, crushed lava rock), but again it's not necessary, you can just use the soil throughout.


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## ArronM (23 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> I don't have a guide, no - but its a relatively simple process.
> 
> Just set your tank up as normal - add all the soil and hardscape, and scape it until you are happy with the layout. Then fill the tank and run it with the filter as normal, but without the light or any plants added, for around a week or two. Do a couple of large (80% +) water changes during that time.
> 
> ...



Aw awesome mate, thanks for that! I’ve got lava rock ready to clean, so that would work in media bags! again thanks for your input and to clarify how you do your dark start


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