# Tell me about your high tech tank that has absolutely no BBA



## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

I make a solumn confession, I do have a little BBA in my tank despite many efforts with CO2, flow, cleanliness. 

The last small bits of BBA would appear on hard shape in areas with most flow and high light (spray bar and gyre, driftwood). Not a major issue for me, I just clean it every 6 weeks with some Flourish Excel and  have nearly accepted it is inevitable to some extent.

Does somebody own a high tech CO2 injected tank, with absolutely no BBA - never and nowhere? Could you share your success formula with me?


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## plantnoobdude (29 Jan 2022)

never had bba, but a fair amount of staghorn LOL. well co2 is pretty high, dosing EI, no hardscape and a lot of flow, 1400lph (factory) in a 45liter tank. 
only time i ever had bba was when the tank was on hard alkaline tap water with lots of seiryu stone, occassionally i got a spot or two of it on the rocks.


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## zozo (29 Jan 2022)

Anybody telling you can only say he/she had a lucky break not getting it...  They can also tell you what they all did and didn't do, but if that all is the reason or cause not getting BBA or any other Rodophyta such as staghorn remains a mystery and would be very difficult to prove.

Years ago did read a blog about CO² and the author stated that Co² injection is the one and only remedy against algae growth in general... So I thought I give it a shot... And it kinda baffled me, because in all the decades I'm in the hobby I never grew so many different algae sp. together and follow up with each other as I did in my first and last High Tech aquarium. Never seen so many algae in one tank all my life. Especially the biggest part of the first year, after that it stabilized and in the 4 years this tank was up and running, I had a few with no BBA. And I really can't tell what I did other than keep up with the husbandry and wait for it to stabilize and go away on its own devices. 

Usually, if you find the cause, then you find the remedy... But in this case, you can find about 3 sticky threads in the algae section of the forum "What exactly causes BBA? Part 1, 2 & 3" with loads of information, opinions, probabilities and alleged workarounds and remedies without any real conclusive answers about the cause and solutions.  BBA seems to be one of the most stubborn and contradictive algae out there.


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

Hi Marcel (@zozo)

If you haven't done so already, please take a look at the following:






						Red Algae/BBA - An Update
					

Hi Everyone,  There have been a few recent threads dealing with BBA. So, I decided to do a bit of exploration. And, the following link is a real eye-opener, I think you'll agree:  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/edn3.139?af=R  Although the above article doesn't appear to mention...



					www.ukaps.org
				




Your feedback would be very welcome, as always.

JPC


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## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> Anybody telling you can only say he/she had a lucky break not getting it...  They can also tell you what they all did and didn't do, but if that all is the reason or cause not getting BBA or any other Rodophyta such as staghorn remains a mystery and would be very difficult to prove.


I am with you, read a lot and it is still a bit of a mystery to me. Why do we often see it in areas of high flow?  Spending so much time to get pH within 0.1 stable, and still have to conclude that that wasn't the magic trick after all? Ultra clean tank, nice flow, but still.... Indeed many posts written about that.

I am just hoping that if we approach it from another angle, have number of success stories such as @plantnoobdude we might find some commonalities between them and dig deeper for better understanding.

BTW, I definitely don't consider myself an expert and hope that the real big guns will step up when we have prepared the ground work


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> Years ago did read a blog about CO² and the author stated that Co² injection is the one and only remedy against algae growth in general.


Hi @zozo 

That would have raised an alarm bell for me. The words "one and only remedy against XXXXXXX" speaks volumes.

JPC


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## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Marcel (@zozo)
> 
> If you haven't done so already, please take a look at the following:
> 
> ...


I am following that thread as well, highly recommended - it was the one that triggered me after struggling for a long time trying to understand why I can't fully eradicate BBA.

I hope you don't mind JPC, did not want to hijack the other thread and thought it would be useful to have the champions trophy challenge for the perfect BBA free high tech tank in a separate thread.


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

Yugang said:


> I hope you don't mind JPC, did not want to hijack the other thread and thought it would be useful to have the champions trophy challenge for the perfect BBA free high tech tank in a separate thread.


Hi @Yugang 

No problem at all.

JPC


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## zozo (29 Jan 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi Marcel (@zozo)
> 
> If you haven't done so already, please take a look at the following:
> 
> ...



Thank you, the only feedback I could give is I don't know... 

I only know that I have 4 different water parties I play with... Only one suffers from a bit BBA on the wood. The Funny is when I transfer this BBA from this tank to the one that has not. It dies off and never comes back. Both are initially set up with the same tap water and have the excact same paramters. And it beats me why BBA grows in one tank and dies in the other. It could be a number of things that I can not see nor measure nor give credit to. I wouldn't know where to look and wouldn't know what to replicate etc. It is what it is, what you see is what you get.



jaypeecee said:


> Hi @zozo
> 
> That would have raised an alarm bell for me. The words "one and only remedy against XXXXXXX" speaks volumes.
> 
> JPC



It was quite some year's ago and I had zero CO² experience. I found this blog, it was in Dutch and I believe it was from a former UKAPS member named Gillis. At the time I believe he runs the webshop for Aquarium fertilizers. The title of the blog was something like "Do want an algae-free aquarium like me!?" I did read it, he stated CO² was the remedy, it intrigued me and gave it the first try... Unfortunately, the opposite of what was stated became true for me. But in the end, I managed to get rid of the algae, after all, I just can't say how other than keep killing what was there. And all of a sudden it went away... It probably was some kind of (natural) balance that did the trick. And I don't think it was me doing it...

It was from this website





						Aquarium beginner? Artikels voor als je je aquarium opstart!
					

Ben je een aquarium beginner? Ga je je aquarium opstarten? Lees hier alle artikels van Aquascaping-Blog voor een vlekkeloze opstart!




					www.aquascaping-blog.com
				



All tho that old article I'm referring to is no longer available. It might be one of his first blogs about 7 or 8 years ago.

I remember a video from Rachel O'Leary where she showed a large tank with monster fish that was entirely carpeted with a thick layer of BBA. And she was very proud of it and it indeed looked cool. A few video's later she came back with an update, for some reason all BBA in that tank was gone it almost disappeared overnight.  And she didn't know how and why and was sad and wanted it back... So she had the question how do I grow BBA? Despite all answers, I believe she never managed to grow it back, at least there was never an update about it AFAIK.


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

Hi Marcel (@zozo),

What a thoroughly fascinating account you have given of the unpredictable nature of BBA. It just makes me more determined to find some answers. There aren't enough hours in a day.

All the best,

JPC


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## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> excact same paramters


Could you help and clarify what parameters were same?  Trying to understand what could possibly be different.

With one tank at least you're runner up for championship with @plantnoobdude


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## zozo (29 Jan 2022)

Yugang said:


> Could you help and clarify what parameters were same? Trying to understand what could possibly be different.



I'm referring to the water chemistry parameter...  All are from the same source and it doesn't change in the aquarium. Things that are obviously different are plants and substrate type but both substrates initially were inert. I guess there are minor differences that have a significant impact that I can not be determined so easily and if so I wouldn't know how to and or with what.

No 2 aquariums are the same, not even the ones in the same house. In my case one has a bit of BBA the other doesn't but grows Hair algae and the other 2 have zero algae other than occasionally some GSA on the glass. And I'm not shy swapping plants around so one would guess all tanks should grow the same algae since it's introduced back and forth. But that ain't the case. Thus there also is an obvious but mysterious difference I can't see or determine.


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## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> I'm referring to the water chemistry parameter...  All are from the same source and it doesn't change in the aquarium. Things that are obviously different are plants and substrate type but both substrates initially were inert. I guess there are minor differences that have a significant impact that I can not be determined so easily and if so I wouldn't know how to and or with what.
> 
> No 2 aquariums are the same, not even the ones in the same house. In my case one has a bit of BBA the other doesn't but grows Hair algae and the other 2 have zero algae other than occasionally some GSA on the glass. And I'm not shy swapping plants around so one would guess all tanks should grow the same algae since it's introduced back and forth. But that ain't the case. Thus there also is an obvious but mysterious difference I can't see or determine.


CO2 and flow?


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## CMooner (29 Jan 2022)

I have had BBA in the past and won, then it might return and beat it again. It seems to be less of a issue in a balanced tank with nutrients, light and maintenance. Dedication to manual removal and spot treating with H2O2 will win the battle. I find this true in low and high tech alike.


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## zozo (29 Jan 2022)

Yugang said:


> CO2 and flow?



No it's low tech and relatively low turnover...


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## tiger15 (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> I remember a video from Rachel O'Leary where she showed a large tank with monster fish that was entirely carpeted with a thick layer of BBA. And she was very proud of it and it indeed looked cool. A few video's later she came back with an update, for some reason all BBA in that tank was gone it almost disappeared overnight.  And she didn't know how and why and was sad and wanted it back... So she had the question how do I grow BBA? Despite all answers, I believe she never managed to grow it back, at least there was never an update about it AFAIK.


I used to keep monster fish in a large tank where BBA blanketed rock, plastic and even the substrate partially. I hate it but didn’t know how to get rid of other than taking the infected rock and plastic out annually, bleached overnight,  rinsed and rubbed hard before returning to the tank.  The tank was plantless and light was probably too low to grow any plants yet sufficient to sustain bba everwhere.



Now that I have converted the same tank into high tech with plants and tripled light intensity, I have‘t seen bba for years.  I still keep large fish with heavy bio load, but beat algae by following a hygienic routine I acquired since starting plants.  I do large 75% water change weekly, followed by spraying H2O2 on all exposed plants and surfaces and dosing 2 ppm glut afterward.  I probably won’t get bba anymore even if I stop the routine but I stick to it anyway as both chemicals are harmless and I bought glut by gallon that must be used up by expiration date.


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

Hi @Yugang & Everyone,

I've been doing some more digging through documents that I'd previously saved. The following is definitely worth a read from beginning to end:



			https://barrreport.com/barr-report-resources/old-newsletters/BarrReportRedAlgae.pdf
		


I may have some more reading material. I'll check that out very soon and report back.

Watch this space!

JPC


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2022)

Hi @Yugang & Everyone,

OK, here as mentioned immediately above. This is very in-depth stuff. Nevertheless, it clarified a lot of things for me...









						(PDF) Algal Spores
					

PDF | The structure, production, dispersal and recruitment of algal spores is discussed in relation to their survival in a turbulent hydrodynamic... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate




					www.researchgate.net
				




JPC


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## Yugang (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> No it's low tech and relatively low turnover...


Ouch, then @plantnoobdude is still the only one keeping is high tech consistently BBA clean...


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## Hufsa (29 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> I remember a video from Rachel O'Leary where she showed a large tank with monster fish that was entirely carpeted with a thick layer of BBA. And she was very proud of it and it indeed looked cool. A few video's later she came back with an update, for some reason all BBA in that tank was gone it almost disappeared overnight.  And she didn't know how and why and was sad and wanted it back... So she had the question how do I grow BBA? Despite all answers, I believe she never managed to grow it back, at least there was never an update about it AFAIK.


From what I remember she thought the cause could have been that she had added a pothos plant to grow with its roots at the back of the aquarium. It was a pretty small plant for such a large tank too. But all her extra luscious long BBA died. She removed the plant and even tried transplanting bunches of BBA back into the tank, but I dont think the transplants took. Dont remember if she got the BBA back in the end.

I should rewatch the videos and report back, but it is getting too late for doing it now, I think my SO will be cross with me if I sit up clickety clacking on the forum all night instead of sleeping 😁


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## zozo (30 Jan 2022)

Yugang said:


> Or are we getting to the conclusion that virtually no one with a high tech CO2 injected tank achieves that perfect end state?



That's a big fat maybe yes or maybe no... Because there are too many variables at play and algae (and fungus) spores are omnipresent. They are in the atmosphere as soon as you open and close a door or window you invite them in.

But if someone thinks to have the remedy and achieves to replicate the exact same result in each new tank consecutively then it would be a yes. Till then one swallow doesn't make a summer, nor a fine day. Not that I'm trying to be a sceptic here... 

There might be some aquascapers that have some kind of intuitive commitment and virtuosic ability to see and predict and act soon enough to always be a step ahead. The devil is in the details, you only have to see it... I guess then it might be something similar as asking a high-class painter to explain how he manages to see and paint the perfect picture from the top of his head. Or ask a musician with an absolute hearing how he manages to hear what others do not.

Seeing that it is possible now and then keeps the hopes high up for everybody. Nothing wrong with believing and keeping to try to find that holy grail.
The only way to get there is to never give up searching and trying...


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## Yugang (30 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> That's a big fat maybe yes or maybe no... Because there are too many variables at play and algae (and fungus) spores are omnipresent. They are in the atmosphere as soon as you open and close a door or window you invite them in.
> 
> But if someone thinks to have the remedy and achieves to replicate the exact same result in each new tank consecutively then it would be a yes. Till then one swallow doesn't make a summer, nor a fine day. Not that I'm trying to be a sceptic here...
> 
> ...


Generally agree @zozo (although I am not an BBA expert). 

Frankly I was expecting at least several to shout out and say they have found the right (multi faceted) approach. For example, I could imagine perfectly balanced tanks (perfect plant health and maintenance, stable CO2, flow, ferts, balanced with light) and a high injection rate like 30-40 ppm. I remember reading (believe T Barr) that BBA will not thrive above certain CO2 ppm. 

Anyway, so far indeed not a lot of evidence (or interest to say so) for the perfect BBA mastery in high tech tank (low tech different story). Makes me feel less of a loser while cleaning BBA spots with Excel


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## zozo (30 Jan 2022)

As said the devil is in the details...  And if you search the net for threads about algae problems and look at the pictures. Then it becomes somewhat obvious that all start asking questions when it is problematic and actually already far too late. That includes me, I sometimes find algae in my tanks and then think where the hell did that come from and why didn't I notice this sooner?

The ones able to see it sooner and act before it becomes problematic you never hear about. And I guess seeing it and acting upon it way ahead before it becomes a problematic scenario is a commitment that comes intuitively.

Similar to, the people that have "Green Fingers" they can grow very healthy and lush house plants without much effort. And others don't because they do not see it, whatever they do and how much they try their plants will never be in top shape. Then for the one with the Green Fingers, it's something obvious and a mystery why the one without green fingers doesn't see it. There probably is a psychological explanation for it, but this is even further away from my expertise than BBA.


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## Yugang (30 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> The ones able to see it sooner and act before it becomes problematic you never hear about. And I guess seeing it and acting upon it way ahead before it becomes a problematic scenario is a commitment that comes intuitively.


So there are a couple of ways to invite BBA in, and have an outbreak. That's the basic stuff, and one can enjoy many hours of reading and practicing and making sure that does not happen to us at home. But taking it one step further, are we now assuming that even the real professionals with perfect display tanks discreetly remove BBA spots in their tanks after working hours? (Please don't take down my heros  )

I believe there is also a more practical implication of the BBA question. Example - when we have some minor BBA, acceptable level, does it make any sense to further optimize CO2 to levels like 0.1 pH equivalent, or even better? Or do we accept that at some point we have achieved the best possible BBA management in the tank, and focus our energy on more relevant issues to improve in our tank?


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## zozo (30 Jan 2022)

Yugang said:


> But taking it one step further, are we now assuming that even the real professionals with perfect display tanks discreetly remove BBA spots in their tanks after working hours? (Please don't take down my heros  )



I assume nothing and not trying to take down anybody... But it's a fact that some real professionals do or did and aren't shy to admit it. You can find examples enough for that. I remember a video about it from the founder of this forum sharing his BBA experiences.


The video might answer the rest of your questions...


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## Yugang (30 Jan 2022)

zozo said:


> I assume nothing and not trying to take down anybody... But it's a fact that some real professionals do or did and aren't shy to admit it. You can find examples enough for that. I remember a video about it from the founder of this forum sharing his BBA experiences.
> 
> 
> The video might answer the rest of your questions...



Perhaps we call that a conclusion @zozo. Ouch, even my hero George does it....


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