# Havent got lighting and CO2 thing right, brown algae.



## peaches (9 Jun 2018)

Tank is just over 2 weeks old.  I have dwarf hairgrass growing well as a carpet, some crypts, anubias and java moss on bogwood, and have just added some water lettuce.  Brown spots of algae are appearing on leaves and in centre of tank on the dwarf hairgrass.

Details:  Tank is Fluval Roma 125litre with 12 watt LED light that comes with the tank, plus a Fluval fresh and plant 32watt.  I dont know the PAR or Lumens but will look it up.  There is the usual fluval U3 litre, and a power head at the opposite side with a sponge on, this directs the CO2 to the front of the tank.  The CO2 is a fire extinguisher with a bazooka atomiser.  Tank pH was originally 7.4 but the CO2 dropped it to 6.6.  I have a drop checker at the opposite side to the CO2 but I find it hard to read.  Its dark green mostly.  The CO2 is one to two bubbles a second.

Lighting photoperiod I originally set at 12 hours because I really like to see my fish, Im home all day.  I realise that I have to reduce the photoperiod to avoid the brown algae.  I cant work out whether to just use the fairly dim 12 watt light for 12 hours but time the 32watt to just do 6 hours.  Im a bit disappointed because I thought by adding CO2 I might avoid the algae, but I presume it means I havent got the balance right yet.

What shall I do?


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## peaches (9 Jun 2018)

Pics show algae on crypt and dwarf hairgrass.


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## peaches (9 Jun 2018)

First pic is tank with both lights on.  Second pic is tank with just 12w on.  Third pic is to show powerhead I added today to send co2 round the front of the tank to try and avoid dead spots.  Co2 comes on half an hour before lights and goes off half an hour before lights.


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## alto (11 Jun 2018)

That is a massive amount of light & extended photoperiod & no CO2 & no "auxiliary" plants (that I can see in photo anyway)

When starting up a tank, it's usual to be more conservative with light period - or to have loads of CO2 (& experience  eg, the fellows at Green Aqua & Aquaflora often run display tanks for long hours even upon setup re "open hours" (also note the use of Twinstar systems))

If you want to maintain the long photoperiod, I'd run low level CO2 24/7 with increased CO2 during photoperiod, daily water changes, rinse filter material at least weekly, run the 12watt LED 12 hours, with a midday burst of 2-4 hours from the F&P 32 watt LED, add shrimp & snails (or Otos if you intend to keep these fish)
Snails - Jurijs mit JS recommends loads of the small horned nerite species (these are my favorite as well though I've not had them in the same numbers  ) 

I prefer a skimmer over a powerhead but see how your tank responds (unless you've a skimmer already at hand, then I'd add it on )


It's difficult to remove algae from hair grass, some people will cut this right back though I'm never able to quite manage that ... if one area is particularly affected, you might trim that zone


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## doylecolmdoyle (11 Jun 2018)

I would say the brown diatom algae is pretty normal for a new start tank, keep doing regular water changes and add some algae eaters when the tank is cycled. Diatoms will reduce with time, this is not an algae to be worried about.


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## peaches (12 Jun 2018)

Thank you I will do.  Alto what are auxiliary plants?  I have added water lettuce and the powerhead is on.  I am sourcing otos and amano shrimp locally.  I can get nerites, I have had them before.


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## peaches (12 Jun 2018)

Latest pics.  Good growth but Brown.  The pearling would be attractive otherwise.


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## peaches (12 Jun 2018)

pics


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## alto (12 Jun 2018)

peaches said:


> Alto what are auxiliary plants?


just click on the embedded link - the green text is forum autocolor for embedded links


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## alto (12 Jun 2018)

Is this post water change pearling?


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## alto (12 Jun 2018)

You may be able to gently "comb" out some of that hair grass algae IF plants have rooted sufficiently


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## peaches (12 Jun 2018)

It was pearling before the waterchange.  I just did a waterchange and I have brushed some of it gently away with the net.  I had to be careful but they seem to be rooted reasonably well given the time scale.


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## peaches (13 Jun 2018)

The 6 Amano shrimp are in.  Should have bought more.  It's a big job.  The man in the shop thought he was doing me a favour by including berried females.  I know they don't develop in freshwater, but I said nothing.  The power head is too powerful.  I need to get a small adjustable one.


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## rebel (14 Jun 2018)

The diatoms also will die with Glut dosing but it should go away after the amanos and otos are done with it. Even snails will snack on it. Don't stress.


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## peaches (15 Jun 2018)

The shrimps are after outsmarting the fish for their food.  I have read up about diatoms and it seems there isn't much to do except wait until it's gone.  It seems like it's inevitable from new set ups.  I seem to remember years ago putting purigen in my filter but if its going to go anyway I will wait it out.


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## peaches (17 Jun 2018)

Tank looks awful.  Amano shrimp aren't eating much.  You cant tell nut yesterday I vacuumed the hairgrass carpet during a twice weekly water change.  I have never had it as bad as this.  Is the co2 causing it?


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## peaches (17 Jun 2018)

Today I'm doing another water change as I have been manually removing it.  I'm so sick of it.  It looks dirty and ugly.   I have a power head to assist with water movement and as well as the internal filter I have a sponge air driven filter.


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## peaches (17 Jun 2018)

Auxiliary plants?  Yea or nay?  Which ones?

The fish dont seem unhappy, but the amano shrimp seem to lurk under the wood, then come out when I add food for the fish.  They arent taking the algae removal very seriously and I am having trouble obtaining ottos.  Each local shop has been without.


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## doylecolmdoyle (18 Jun 2018)

That does look nasty but definitely diatoms, yes co2 can cause plants to produce more waste resulting in diatoms but the regular water changes prevent this build up from becoming to much, so I would say no it is not co2 causing your issue.

Keep up with manual removal and regular water changes, make sure your filter is clean, its probably full of brown gunk also, the diatoms cant last for ever! Goodluck


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## peaches (19 Jun 2018)

The filter isnt full of brown gunk because twice a week I am rinsing the finer filter wool thing in tank water.  I am not rinsing the sponge as this isnt particularly brown.  I am doing water changes twice weekly and before I do them I disturb as much of the brown as possible so I can syphon it away.  I have had quite a lot of new tanks before, but I the difference is, no LED lights before, and no pressurised CO2 before.  I set up both of these things because I wanted a hairgrass carpet.  I have this now, but its clogged with brown gunk.  I am leaving some brown gunk in on the bottom half of the back wall, on the wood and on some plants as if all goes well my otocinclus are coming on Wednesday, and a few more shrimp and nerite snails.  I am hoping these will get on top of the problem.


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## peaches (19 Jun 2018)

alto said:


> That is a massive amount of light & extended photoperiod & no CO2 & no "auxiliary" plants (that I can see in photo anyway)
> 
> When starting up a tank, it's usual to be more conservative with light period - or to have loads of CO2 (& experience  eg, the fellows at Green Aqua & Aquaflora often run display tanks for long hours even upon setup re "open hours" (also note the use of Twinstar systems))
> 
> ...



Alto, Im trying to get my head round the surface skimmer.  I havent got one, but can you explain why it will help?  I am rinsing the finer filter material twice weekly now, I was rinsing it once a week initially.


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## lazybones51 (19 Jun 2018)

peaches said:


> Auxiliary plants?  Yea or nay?  Which ones?
> 
> The fish dont seem unhappy, but the amano shrimp seem to lurk under the wood, then come out when I add food for the fish.  They arent taking the algae removal very seriously and I am having trouble obtaining ottos.  Each local shop has been without.


The only place i've been able to get Otto's is Pets at home. As others have mentioned it appears to be diatoms, manual removal and patience with see them gone.


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## peaches (19 Jun 2018)

lazybones51 said:


> The only place i've been able to get Otto's is Pets at home. As others have mentioned it appears to be diatoms, manual removal and patience with see them gone.


Im not keen on that shop, but called in Crystal Peaks one about a week since and they didnt have them.  I have ended up mail ordering them, which I dont like to do.  The amano shrimp arent doing much algae removing.


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## lazybones51 (19 Jun 2018)

peaches said:


> Im not keen on that shop, but called in Crystal Peaks one about a week since and they didnt have them.  I have ended up mail ordering them, which I dont like to do.  The amano shrimp arent doing much algae removing.


I avoid the place like the plague normally. The only times i've bought stuff from there was when I wanted Ottos and when they had 3 for £10 on Tropica 1,2 Grow plants.


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## dw1305 (19 Jun 2018)

Hi all,





doylecolmdoyle said:


> but definitely diatoms,


They will eventually go away.





peaches said:


> Auxiliary plants? Yea or nay? Which ones?


Definitely "yea", if the Water lettuce (_Pistia stratiotes_) is growing well just let in cover ~2/3 of the water surface, if it isn't you could try either Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum)_ or Hornwort (_Ceratophyllum demersum_), or both.





peaches said:


> because twice a week I am rinsing the finer filter wool thing in tank water.


Take the fine filter wool out of the filter, it just impedes flow and doesn't help. Personally I don't like any mechanical filtration material inside the filter, I like it in an easy clean pre-filter sponge on the filter intake, the bigger the better.

cheers Darrel


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## alto (19 Jun 2018)

Can you not manage daily water changes & manual removal?
this will see the algae off with less plant damage (being covered in algae, even diatoms impacts leaf health) 

As for the Amano's not doing much - 6 isn't enough of a group for them to feel secure re the dwarf rainbows  - which I assumed to be a pseudomugil species but am now wondering if you mean M praecox ... if the latter they will definitely have given the shrimp some serious investigation (depending how interested they are, even 20 Amano won't be out doing any work)
Another consideration, once female shrimp are berried, especially as eggs mature, they begin to play least in sight - especially if there is any fish notice
My personal observation with mature Amano females, they just hide out, then scramble out for fish food, hassle any smaller (cherry) shrimp & leave any work to the boys (Amano male shrimp are the smaller - in contrast I find them quite busy)
I've seen Amano females working in shop display tanks but very few or no fish (ie no fish food really)

If you look at ADA etc tanks, there are loads of shrimp, nerites (Jurijs mit JS), otocinclus introduced soon after startup just in case of (extreme) algae issues - there's no doubt you have a bad case of diatoms for whatever reason

Unlike Darrel I prefer underwater "auxiliary" plants but I also have 55cm tall tanks & substrate PAR is always a consideration (I have Kessil A160 so no chance of "high" light), I also prefer fine filter material inside the filter rather than an intake sponge (my filter needs to be seriously gunked before there's a noticeable decrease in flow or apparent algae effect)

There's a thread here somewhere with diatoms as bad (or worse) than yours - I'll try to find it later 

CO2 I suggest you run this 24/7 until tank recovers - increase CO2 for light period, but also leave some reduced level of CO2 during non-photoperiod ... I just checked my (very) dim corner tank and the Rotala H'ra is sitting with open, expectant leafs trying its best (despite my photoperiod routinely starting 5-6hours later)


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## dw1305 (20 Jun 2018)

Hi all,





alto said:


> Unlike Darrel I prefer underwater "auxiliary" plants but I also have 55cm tall tanks & substrate PAR is always a consideration (I have Kessil A160 so no chance of "high" light), I also prefer fine filter material inside the filter rather than an intake sponge (my filter needs to be seriously gunked before there's a noticeable decrease in flow or apparent algae effect)


It doesn't really matter where your auxiliary plants are, floating ones have access to aerial CO2, but have a greater shading effect, so it is swings and roundabouts really.

Same applies to the mechanical filtration, I'm pretty lazy so I like an easy clean solution, and I'm not too bothered about the aesthetics of having a sponge block in the tank. Flow is the key, you need to make sure that the speed of flow in the filter doesn't decline to the extent that the water in the can become de-oxygenated.

cheers Darrel


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## peaches (20 Jun 2018)

I'm managing water changes every couple of days with manual removal.  My new shrimp arrived I now have 14 in total.  The new ones are smaller and are eating algae as we speak.

The rainbows are praecox and still fairly young.

My fish mail order was mixed up and I somehow got 2 ottos only a third was dead and they made the numbers up with Cory but I got a refund.  So with only 2 ottos I need more.  I have found some 40 minute drive away and will make that trip.  I now have a situation where I either have to increase the group size of the Cory or swap them.  I also got 5 nerites.

But as we speak, algae is being eaten.


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## peaches (20 Jun 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,They will eventually go away.Definitely "yea", if the Water lettuce (_Pistia stratiotes_) is growing well just let in cover ~2/3 of the water surface, if it isn't you could try either Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum)_ or Hornwort (_Ceratophyllum demersum_), or both.Take the fine filter wool out of the filter, it just impedes flow and doesn't help. Personally I don't like any mechanical filtration material inside the filter, I like it in an easy clean pre-filter sponge on the filter intake, the bigger the better.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I took the second filter wool out.  Its one of those Fluval filters which annoyingly has the carbon attached to the back of the filter wool.  After 5 hours the water looks a lot more polished.  I think there wasnt much flow because the fine filter was clogging up all the time.  I may have mentioned it before, but I have a bad back and have also spent many hours on the floor with previous external filters that had problems with the spindle on the impeller or wouldnt prime and I decided they are too much hard work.  If I can maintain the internals without bending over, I will continue to do that.  I also have a 6 inch JAD air driven sponge filter.  Thanks Darrell.


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## peaches (26 Jun 2018)

Just have to say that since the second lot of shrimps were added and 2 otto (even though I ordered 6) the tank is shiny bright.  It is almost as if the new shrimp showed the old shrimp how to do it.  There are still a few brown bits in the hairgrass but the way they have worked on everything else has been fab.  Im really pleased.  When I can get out again, I will hopefully find some more ottos, but the two I have are happy and work and swim together.  I am just conscious they should be in a larger group.


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## doylecolmdoyle (27 Jun 2018)

Good to hear the diatoms are clearing up, Oto's do prefer to be kept in decent numbers 5+ would be ideal, they dont have a really long life span and also find it hard to adapt to new tank conditions, so it can be hard to keep the number of fish up, I have 2 (originally had 6) in a 12g tank and the pair seem happy enough, tho I should really add a few more. You may find once all the algae / diatoms are under control you will need to supplement the oto's with algae wafers etc


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## peaches (7 Jul 2018)

The tank is now beautifully clear of the brown stuff.  Extra shrimp and otos did it.


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## peaches (7 Jul 2018)

doylecolmdoyle said:


> Good to hear the diatoms are clearing up, Oto's do prefer to be kept in decent numbers 5+ would be ideal, they dont have a really long life span and also find it hard to adapt to new tank conditions, so it can be hard to keep the number of fish up, I have 2 (originally had 6) in a 12g tank and the pair seem happy enough, tho I should really add a few more. You may find once all the algae / diatoms are under control you will need to supplement the oto's with algae wafers etc


I havent found any locally so I ordered 6 by courier.  Unfortunately I was sent 3 otos (one dead) and 3 corys which I didnt want, so I got a refund.  I have asked my LFS to let me know when the otos are in, but apparently they are wild caught and it might be August before there are any more.  I know I need to get more.  I have put in algae wafers and sinking pellets, but these do seem to be hoovered up by the shrimp.  I keep dropping a small wafer in where the otos are in the hope they will get it.


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## Cheltster (9 Oct 2018)

I totally agree with the Otos, nerites and amano approach.

When my father got ill his tank got neglected and the algae started to grow. By the time I got around to sorting it the two end glass sides and all the hard scape and quite a few plants were covered. 

I got 3 Otos, 3 amano and a nerite from the great Castle Aquatics. A few weeks later the tank is looking awesome.


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