# My unfortunate vacation experience and "who dun it"



## dw1305

Hi all,
I've been to the Bavarian Alps for 3 weeks, this was a house swap, so why we were in Bavaria  a German family were out our home in Wiltshire. 

I've only got 2 x 2' and a 21 litre nano tank at home, all heavily planted and low-tech. Usually when I'm away I ask house-sitters not too feed the fish, unless I know that they are fish keepers, I've done this loads of times or (my builder neighbour has fed the fish without any problem) when I've been away for longer periods. For a number of reasons I had more fish than I normally do at home (I've got an aquarium set-up in the lab. again but it wasn't fully established and I've had very un-balanced sex ratios in my _Apistogramma cacatuoides_ colony, so I had 4 "spare" sub-adult males), and a lot of smallish Apistogramma fry (some still with the females)). Because of this I left instructions and a measured amount of food for the tanks whilst we were away (measurement written and appropriate sized scoop left, but not measured out as portions). 

To cut to the chase, whilst I was away all 6 of my adult/sub-adult male Apistogrammas died. The 4  sub-adult males and all the larger, but unsexable, fry in a tank on their own with  large amount of cherry shrimps and 2 very old Tetras (also all deceased). The devastation was so bad in this 2' tank that even some of the MTS were dead. Following the deaths the tank was emptied of water, leaving only about 6" to cover the plants. All the plants have survived, with the exception of the ferns/moss above the water line, a group of _Cryptocoryne balansae _(from a UKAPS member) and a large _Anubias_ "nana", both of these, even though in the water, had totally disintegrated, with the entire rhizome gone (the leaves themselves looked OK). _Cryptocoryne x willisii_ (also from a UKAPS member) survived un-damaged. These fish only lasted about a week after I'd left (we had a distraught phone call at 2AM from our German house swap, whilst in Germany).

In the other tank, the 2 adult male Apistogrammas have died (about a week after the first deaths), but the 2 females with fry, 6 small _Hypancistrus deblittera_, 4 Otocinclus spp.  and 3 male Threadfin Rainbows (bought as 1m, 2f, but obviously male when they arrived, and waiting to be collected) all survived. The entire tank surface was covered with _Limnobium_, with leaves at least twice as large as normal, and all the plants looked much larger and lusher than normal, with the exception of  2 large _Anubias_ "nana", which had totally melted.  

The nano was also fairly intact, agasn with very lush plant growth, but no obvious fish (just a few more juvenile _Apistogramma_) or plant deaths, with the exception of a large _Anubias_ (species unknown) which again had totally melted. None of the tanks had noticeably more algae than when I left.

A bit of investigation found that:
1. Our Germans didn't speak much English (although enough to get by with whilst in England, and definitely a lot more than I can speak German )

2. One of our house swap had a severe  dust mite allergy.

3. Our extremely pleasant, but very elderly neighbours (our builder neighbour was also away), had "house sat" for a couple of days immediately prior to the deaths whilst our visitors were in Cornwall.

4. There was a tray with a number of different fertilisers on the work top, including some that might conceivably look like fish food to the uninitiated. 

I realise it could have been worse, but I'm still at a loss as to quite what happened? and any suggestions? are welcomed

cheers Darrel


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## George Farmer

Very sorry for your losses, Darrel.  How terrible to return to such devastation after what sounds like a lovely vacation.

Two fairly obvious deductions that you've probably considered -

1) Someone used an insecticide aerosol to combat the dust mites.  I suspect these would be very toxic to aquatic life.

2) The fertilisers left on the work top; what were they and would they cause the issues if dosed like fish food?


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## mlgt

I was going to say the same about some form of spray which settled on the water and thus killed the fish


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## Dolly Sprint 16v

Darrell

Could a oxygen depletion caused the deaths or has your german friend add some other solution by mistake.

Regards
paul.


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## a1Matt

I am really sorry to hear about your losses Darrel.

Of your casualties moss is the only thing I have spare of.  If you want any more just send me a pm and I will pop some in the post to you. I understand you might not be ready to jump in with restocking just yet. So the offer is an open one, just yell if and when you want to take me up on it.

I can not help any more with the possible causes though.  FWIW, my mind also followed the same thoughts as George.

EDIT - I trust you had a nice hol in the Alps!


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## dw1305

Hi all,
Thanks for your concern and comments, the 2 factors mentioned were the ones that came to mind. I actually felt an enormous feeling of relief (as well as loss) when I got home, as I hadn't been able to get my email for a week, and I had expected that the fish loss would be total. I've got spare plants and loads of fry, so the loss is only temporary. 

My initial thought was that it was an insecticide, followed by fish death and oxygen depletion. After a bit of thought I think this can't be right, as the fish with the highest oxygen requirement would be the Loricariid catfish (_Hypancistrus & Otocinclus_), and they have all survived. As far as I can tell all the females and Apistogramma fry have survived, and all the males died. The plant losses seem similarly random, all of my _Anubias_ plants and all plants of  one species of _Cryptocoryne_.

The fertilisers out were a mix of  "VitaxQ4 & Growmore", a generic slow release osmocote type fertiliser and some KNO3 prills, so nothing that would seem to be likely to that much damage. The plant growth would definitely suggest a lot more nutrients, and particularly nitrogen. 

All in all really strange. 

cheers Darrel


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## Nathaniel Whiteside

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Thanks for your concern and comments, the 2 factors mentioned were the ones that came to mind. I actually felt an enormous feeling of relief (as well as loss) when I got home, as I hadn't been able to get my email for a week, and I had expected that the fish loss would be total. I've got spare plants and loads of fry, so the loss is only temporary.
> 
> My initial thought was that it was an insecticide, followed by fish death and oxygen depletion. After a bit of thought I think this can't be right, as the fish with the highest oxygen requirement would be the Loricariid catfish (_Hypancistrus & Otocinclus_), and they have all survived. As far as I can tell all the females and Apistogramma fry have survived, and all the males died. The plant losses seem similarly random, all of my _Anubias_ plants and all plants of  one species of _Cryptocoryne_.
> 
> The fertilisers out were a mix of  "VitaxQ4 & Growmore", a generic slow release osmocote type fertiliser and some KNO3 prills, so nothing that would seem to be likely to that much damage. The plant growth would definitely suggest a lot more nutrients, and particularly nitrogen.
> 
> All in all really strange.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Did you ever work this out then Darrel?


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Did you ever work this out then Darrel?


No I never got to the bottom of it. We've had 4 House swaps since without any problems, but I've weighed the food out etc. 

The _Anubias_ "melt" was the really strange thing.

cheers Darrel


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## sciencefiction

dw1305 said:


> After a bit of thought I think this can't be right, as the fish with the highest oxygen requirement would be the Loricariid catfish (Hypancistrus & Otocinclus), and they have all survived.


 
That's a devastating experience Darrel. But just one thought, my common pleco and ottos can gulp air from the surface as I've seen them occasionally doing it over the years. I think they are quite likely to survive in lower oxygen than some other fish.


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## dw1305

Hi all





sciencefiction said:


> ottos can gulp air from the surface as I've seen them occasionally doing it over the years. I think they are quite likely to survive in lower oxygen than some other fish.


 They can, I've seen my Otos do it occasionally. It is the same mechanism as in _Corydoras _catfish, and presumably is a conserved trait from their common (Callichthydae & Loricariidae) ancestor. 

I've found that all? Loricariids gulp air in conditions of low oxygen, but unfortunately all the more rheophilic ones have lost the ability to absorb any of it. The only reason I can think for the _Hypancistrus_ surviving was that they were small, and small fish have a larger gill area to volume ratio than larger ones. 

cheers Darrel


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## faizal

So sorry for your loss Darrel. Just read this.


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## Aqua360

I can't offer an explanation that hasn't been mentioned above, however; what i have noticed is that no matter how easy instructions are, or how low key maintenance is for aquariums; I have consistently came back to problems after holidays where someone else was asked to feed the fish.

I'd attribute it to us being attuned with our tanks, that minor changes and fixes we do that we wouldn't give a second thought to; actually have the capability to cause devastation if not addressed quickly, i.e. by neighbours, family and friends (not their fault really).

An example i can think of, is either circuit breakers tripping; in which case filters go off, don't go back until the switches are tripped. I've had that happen to me, where the person jumped in to check the fish and the house during the day; where there was no need for lights therefore no discovery of no power. I came back 2 weeks later, filters were basically dead, totally crashed my tank and killed inhabitants.

Then you simply have the feeding thing. We all know how much to feed our fish, but when you watch someone else do it; it makes for a nail biting experience lol, cue massive dollop of flakes, enough to last 5 days at least; easily overwhelming the system and polluting the water quality...


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## darren636

I blame Volkswagen

Did you test tds upon your return?


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## dw1305

Hi all,





darren636 said:


> Did you test tds upon your return?


I didn't, but I probably should have done.

cheers Darrel


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## stu_

Blimey,don't you just love it when old threads get resurrected.
I sat here reading as the disaster unfolded,only to get to the end of the OP and realise this was from 5 years ago...
Panic over


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## Aqua360

oops, I just seen the thread come up in the feed lol, didn't go looking to revive old stuff


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## dw1305

Hi all, 
This really is a zombie thread, but over seven years later I think I have the answer.

I recently had to strip this tank down, because it sprung a leak, and........ 





dw1305 said:


> There was a tray with a number of different fertilisers on the work top, including some that might conceivably look like fish food to the uninitiated.


.....when I started scooping the sand out I found a number of empty little orange "controlled release" fertiliser prills, and there used to be a jar of these in the kitchen (for the house plants). 




 

I've definitely never added them to the tank, so I assume they were the cause of the incidents in 2010.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet

To much like fish food i guess


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## alto

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> This really is a zombie thread, but over seven years later I think I have the answer.
> 
> I recently had to strip this tank down, because it sprung a leak, and........


My first thought:

How many of those Zombie fish & their descendants are still swimming in your tanks?


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





alto said:


> How many of those Zombie fish & their descendants are still swimming in your tanks?


None at the moment. I've lost the last two _Otocinclus _over the last year, which were either these same fish or their descendants. 

I still have most of the same plants. 

Because I've been away a lot at work, there wasn't any-one working permanently in the lab. last summer, and I'm going to New Zealand for a month in summer 2018, I've not got any new fish for a couple of years and I've given away/sold the Loricariids etc. and I've just had all the odd fish that have been left over from failed breeding attempts (male _Dario dario_), or where I got them wrongly named (various _Copella_ spp.), or as by-catch where I never managed to find any more. 

The last _Apistogramma cacatuoides _went to a local shop, (when I had the _Dicrossus) _and the last few of _Apistogramma agassizii _I bred were all males, the last one of these turned its toes up at Christmas (males never live very long for me), and a heating failure in the lab. cooked most of the _Corydoras hastatus & Copella arnoldii. _

Things are a bit more settled in the lab. now, and when I come back from New Zealand I'm going to re-stock. I'm going to change my feeding regime, and feed a lot less grindal worms and a lot more crustacean/insects. 

cheers Darrel


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## Soilwork

Hi Darrel

What exactly is in the slow release balls? Ammonia poisoning?


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Soilwork said:


> What exactly is in the slow release balls? Ammonia poisoning?


That would be my guess.

cheers Darrel


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## Ady34

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,That would be my guess.
> 
> cheers Darrel


An oldie, but do you think the anubias melt could be related to ammonia release also in this case?
Thanks
Ady.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Ady34 said:


> An oldie, but do you think the anubias melt could be related to ammonia release also in this case?


I'm pretty sure it was. 

cheers Darrel


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