# Big Aquarium



## Tim Harrison (20 Oct 2018)

Hello all, I've been thinking (always a dangerous thing) about getting a larger tank.

Amazingly, the other day my wife, suddenly came out with...'why don't we get rid of the corner sofa in the kitchen-diner-family room and then you'll have space for a big aquarium'. It's old and knackered anyway, and invariably gets used as a dumping zone, so I thought that an excellent idea ...






Strangely, it'd never crossed my mind before, probably because it was such a far fetched concept. Anyway, it's a suggestion she may well live to regret...I can't get the thought out of my head, and have been mentally playing with various scenarios.

The obvious choice is an Evolution Aqua Aquascaper, something like the 1200 or bigger. However, being essentially lazy I'm not sure I could cope with the maintenance, or the loss of goodness knows how many litres of water a week, turning my house in to a sauna. Or for that matter the inevitable fish and shrimp suicides, but on a much bigger scale.






So, I've been looking at closed top options, and the one coming out on top is the Juwel Rio range, 240 and above. The 450 would be my ideal, and for one thing good examples often pop up on eBay for a few hundred quid. But the RIo range comes with its own set of problems, and this is where it could get interesting...





I've come up with the hair-brain idea to set myself the potentially difficult challenge of growing a healthy planted tank with no additional filtration, or flow etc other than what comes with the tank as standard. Well okay, I might pimp the Eccoflow pump up with the largest version that will fit, if it's an option, and I might splash out on Juwels HeliaLux lighting system.

I therefore have questions that I thought I'd throw out there; if anyone could give me the benefit of their experience it'd be greatly appreciated...

I want to inject CO2 via the built in Bioflow filter, I thought about just sticking the CO2 tube in one of the flow inlets adjacent to the media baskets and letting the pump impeller do the rest. Anyone done something similar?

I like the idea of the HeliaLux lights. Are they any good in terms of controllably and colour rendition?

Any other thoughts, ideas or comments?

If it ever gets off the ground I'm going hybrid energy...most likely soil substrate with easy - medium plants so hopefully I won't need so much flow or CO2 or high light.


----------



## Edvet (20 Oct 2018)




----------



## Edvet (20 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> no additional filtration, or flow etc other than what comes with the tank as standard


So low tech, you can do low 24/7 CO2, i wouldnt put it through the filtern just small separate system ( small submerged flow pump and a small reactor , maybe you can hidea small pump in the filter  or in the back corner).
( risk of CO2 damaging the filterseals)


----------



## Tom Michael (20 Oct 2018)

Years ago I injected co2 via a hole drilled into the in built filter outlet in a Juwel. It wasn't a total failure, however it goes against many of the principles of this forum i.e. Very low flow, this means the tight rope of gassing fish was constant. Even flow around all corners will also me an issue.

Helilux lights much better than T5s, control is excellent and colour is good - however if you want RGB and have the cash wait as this is in their next version tbr shortly


----------



## Zeus. (20 Oct 2018)

In some ways I wish I had gone the open top route, but I only have to leave the glass covers of a few days and the wife complains about the smell which I can't smell, plus with the glass covers on negible water loss per week compared to if the covers are left off.
The Jewel Rio 450 is pretty decent tank if you can pick a good one up second hand too.
IME the issue with hooded tanks is you have to be sure about the filter/plumbing as if your not happy with the Internal one upgrading to an external canister can be tricky with the hood.
I got my tank from NQ aquatics which get mixed reviews, but with there Scandinavian design you can go for open hooded so hybrid between hooded and open top. Then you could hang any light above it if you choose. They do do custom sizes as well. As well as complete setups with sumps in base.
One thing I can say about the cabinets Nqaquatics make is they are heavy, weighed more than the tank


----------



## Edvet (20 Oct 2018)

Zeus. said:


> wife complains about the smell


Aye: ''the aquarium smells!" while i smell nothing..................


----------



## Zeus. (20 Oct 2018)

Edvet said:


> Aye: ''the aquarium smells!" while i smell nothing..................



Would of thought there's the potential of more smell with a sump also!


----------



## mort (20 Oct 2018)

Whilst I love juwel tanks and have two that are over ten years old, I could never imagine just running it with their internal filter. I have a eheim external in one, along with the internal, and it didnt need any modifications at all to fit it in, so I wouldn't rule out extra flow if you need it.
My brother got a lido 120 a few months ago and we've really struggled with algae. If we put enough plants in to reduce the led light we see the string algae go but the plant mass reduces flow so much that blue green cyano seems to appear. We are looking at a powerhead to see if this helps first as it's a low energy tank like your planning.

I would also consider if you personally will get as much out of a large setup as you do with smaller ones. The bigger the tank the less I seem motivated to look after it and keep it pristine (and I've looked after anything and everything up to 16x3x6ft in my time but all marine), it turns more into a chore. Although saying that I've love a 5-6ft simple planted tank with a massive group of one main species and decent sized groups of a couple more.


----------



## Daveslaney (20 Oct 2018)

Some of the large aquaoak tanks and cabinets the have in maidenhead look quite good for the price too,All though you have to select your own filter and lights for these.


----------



## Aqua360 (20 Oct 2018)

Juwel 450 is really nice and as you say, solves the evaporation issue. 

Worst case scenario you could always add powerheads to aid with the flow, but depending on sensible bioload, the filter should be able to hold its own I'd have thought. 

Could treat it as a challenge!


----------



## Dadofthree (20 Oct 2018)

Personally i would chuck the kitchen sink at this and do a custom built corner tank would be amazing


----------



## DutchMuch (21 Oct 2018)

i always thought itd be neat to see u @Tim Harrison do a big High Tech setup. haha. I think having NO electricity in the tank (ok, other than a heater or something like that) and have no flow would be a really neat concept. Seen it done a very limited amount of times 1/5 chances of success it seems avrg. Im sure you could pull it off easily with your knowledge and understanding of these concepts. 

Definitely vote Yes take this chance before she says move your tanks to a different house LOL 

GL tim!


----------



## Keith GH (21 Oct 2018)

Hello Tim


Tim Harrison said:


> Amazingly, the other day my wife, suddenly came out with...'why don't we get rid of the corner sofa in the kitchen-diner-family room and then you'll have space for a big aquarium



Your wife said BIG well go for a large custom built corner tank.  









Have fun.

Keith


----------



## DutchMuch (21 Oct 2018)

@Keith GH i like that second (sw) image a lot....


----------



## ian_m (21 Oct 2018)

Do we move this thread to "journal" section in anticipation ?


----------



## PARAGUAY (21 Oct 2018)

@Tim.What a lady you have there. Speed is of the essence now as minds are often changed


----------



## Edvet (21 Oct 2018)

Too late!, Should have been in place already!


----------



## DeepMetropolis (21 Oct 2018)

I have an 130x50cm open top with good surface agitation have around 1L loss a day.. I got no smell other then just the scent of water, and my wife smells really everything so she would have complained of it was the case.. I have also an closed top that has little to almost no water loss only maintaining the closed one is something I rarely do.. With an open top its is so much easier to access if your around your tank and you see something off or want to prune or get out some decaying leaves..


----------



## Dadofthree (21 Oct 2018)

If you put your tank water in a fancy bottle and called it essence of the Amazon and chargef £70 a bottle they would still sray it behind there ears
Obviously I'm not sexest some men would aswell haha


----------



## Tim Harrison (21 Oct 2018)

Haha, thanks for the great replies guys. They've all been a great help...

@Edvet - I've never tried 24 hr CO2 before Ed, could be another reason to experiment with a Juwel  But then I guess I might regret not going open top like Karl - @Zeus, and thanks also Karl for the info on NQ Aquatics...the hybrid approach is definitely another option. Either way both you and Ed are masters of the large tank, so your input it really appreciated.

@DeepMetropolis Thanks for the info about evaporation, that's really good to know, it's one of my main concerns, and you're right about maintenance, it is easy to just dip in and out of an open top tank.

And thanks @mort for the advice, and sharing your personal experience with regards flow and algae, it's a great help when weighing up the pros and cons. Thanks also Tom - @Tom Michael, good to know about the new Juwel RGB 

@Daveslaney - I've seen those large AquaOak tanks at Maidenhead Dave, they look well built, I'll take them in to consideration as well. 

@Aqua360 and @DutchMuch - That's exactly it, it's the challenge that's really got me interested in trying to make the Juwel work, maybe I should contact them and give them the chance to sponsor me  And those Juwel BioFilters are monsters, designed for fish keepers, so I reckon they will hold the bioload of a planted tank quite easily.

@Dadofthree - Wouldn't a corner tank be fantastic, it'd be like having a mini 'Forests Underwater' in my own home  @Keith GH - Keith I love the minimalist one with the plain stand, that'd look great in the corner, but I think I'd be pushing my luck, and the bank balance 



ian_m said:


> Do we move this thread to "journal" section in anticipation ?


Haha...no pressure then Ian 



PARAGUAY said:


> @Tim.What a lady you have there


I know, she's definitely one of a kind. And to think it never crossed my mind until she mentioned it  


PARAGUAY said:


> Speed is of the essence now as minds are often changed





Edvet said:


> Too late!, Should have been in place already!


Too late to change now, the deal is sealed


----------



## ian_m (22 Oct 2018)

Personally I think to keep things simple'ish and cost efficient you should consider something like a Rio 450 and have the other wall cabinet as storage for things... Try to do things that will minimise work, especially speeding up water changing and making it less of a chore.






In Jewel cabinets I would have:

FX6 filter.
Fire extinguisher for CO2.
Tanks/bottles of EI & liquid carbon and dosing pumps.
Fish food.
Tank & plant fiddling tools.
Some form of tank controller.
For things in storage cupboard I would have :

Other FX6 filter.
200litre (40gallon) water storage tank fitted with pumps and heater. This will make 50% water changes much easier.
Handy surface for to place ornaments on. (as well as fish bits, whilst working !!).
I would also plumb in mains water, could even by via 6mm/4mm bore plastic pipe (behind skirting board) if you have a storage tank. Doesn't matter it flow is not 15mm plumbing flow, as long as fills up each week will be fine.

I would also plumb in waste water disposal somehow as 200l of water is a lot to get rid off. You could either plumb to house waste or to outlet of outside wall, to attach a pipe to, to water the lawn.

All these things are to make up keep & maintenance  easier & quicker so you can spend more time looking at your tank.

See Zeus's journal on how to do a 500l high tech tank.


----------



## Edvet (22 Oct 2018)

ian_m said:


> You could either plumb to house waste


I did and never want to go without it again, offcourse my tank is bigger, but just being able to change water without hauling anything is a real bliss.


----------



## ian_m (22 Oct 2018)

Edvet said:


> I did and never want to go without it again, offcourse my tank is bigger, but just being able to change water without hauling anything is a real bliss.


I just throw hose pipe out of window on to front lawn and pump water out. Saving so much time from, lumping around part filled, sloshing 40l tubs or waste water, to pour down the downstairs loo !!!! Get a nice green lawn as a bonus.

Was going to drill a hole in the outside wall and plumb in a hose connector on inside wall to a "sprinker bar" on outside wall, so I could just connect the waste water hose up and start pumping !!! Again to save time and faffing.

Of course tank controller, have to push/link again.... There is cupboard space a plenty to make a decent tank controller, unlike my "all fitting in a tiny box" version. 
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-use-a-plc-to-control-your-fish-tank.42993/


----------



## Zeus. (22 Oct 2018)

Get the hose out to the garden plants/pond drain the tank don't trip over the hose, then move the hose to the water mixer fill the tank don't trip over the hose again, wife complaining about door being open in winter, time to put the hose threw the letter box again, cleaning filter in the cold,rain and snow 
If the walled backed into the garage I would have all the filters etc in their with the hoses coming through the wall, then sink drain in garage


----------



## Edvet (22 Oct 2018)

I have the kitchen sink on the otherside of the wall, plumbed through the wall and now my sump has an overflow to the sewer.
Every two months or so i throw the gardenhose in the sump and run it for a few hours, to do a large exchange. I have an RO system next to the sump and i can drip either RO only or RO + waste in the sump thus changing about 100 liter/day. Tanklevel is constant always ( surpuls drains away through sewer) and i change 50% per week this way. (luckily we have good water, no prepairing neccesary).


----------



## Siege (22 Oct 2018)

Hi Tim, just my experience - I wanted a large tank liked the open top, had the same fears as you so got a 6’ hooded tank.

only kept it a year because it was a pain to get anything in and out with the hood and bracing etc. As mort said everything seemed much more of a chore at that size. May have been the hood and bracing though.

Changed to 2 X 600 and 1 X 900 tank, all EA Aquascaper, now a lot more fun. I have 3 sapes, all cheaper to do than 1 large one and I can concentrate on the detail on each a lot more. Added benefit is I can split up maintenance as much as I want.

They are all in the dining area, no smell, loss of water is about 1cm a week and certainly no damp.

I should have just shelled out for the open top tank that I wanted in the 1st place......


----------



## Siege (22 Oct 2018)

Ps. Spend time thinking about what was you want the tank on. That’s the other place I went wrong. No good if it can’t be viewed properly from where you spend your time!


----------



## Siege (22 Oct 2018)

Edit should have said what wall you want the tank on!!!


----------



## Tim Harrison (23 Oct 2018)

Crikey thanks guys, some really salient points, much more to consider than I originally thought.


Siege said:


> Edit should have said what wall you want the tank on!!!


It has to go on the righthand wall with the door, as in Ian's sketch; there's a radiator on the other wall.

The other thing I'm struggling with is the stand. I don't like the height of the either the Juwel or the EA stand. At around 80cm high, neither tank will be in my eye-line when sitting. Also, I find it overbearing and too dominating. I think around 65cm is about right.
I might have one made or have a go at building one myself; any advice?


----------



## Zeus. (23 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Crikey thanks guys, some really salient points, much more to consider than I originally thought.
> 
> It has to go on the righthand wall with the door, as in Ian's sketch; there's a radiator on the other wall.
> 
> ...



We'll thats one big detail I didn't add to my Journal I didn't won't the tank so high myself so I could see it when sitting down. Glad I did as the maintiance would of been harder too as would of needed a box to stand on with a 80cm base. I'm 5ft 10in tall your about 6ft I think so with a big high tank you have to reach the bottom, I need the hood off and tip toes for hand to reach the substraye esp with tank being 60cm depth also. The issue then was fitting all the filters CO2 clyinder in etc. So with it being my first tank had to get the CO2 cylinder and filters before ordering tank. NQ Aquatics did the bospoke base no at no extra cost either. Can't remember what height of base I went for in the end, will measure it when I get home tomorrow.
Only issue with short base is it gives baggy knees in my jeans with my room divider tank as I go round the tank on my knees to see all the details but tank at eye level when sat down.


----------



## ian_m (23 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> I think around 65cm is about right


I did read somewhere (not here I think) where someone chopped 10cm (or more ??) height off his Juwel cabinet to make it lower. So a Rio 450 now 70cm cabinet height as opposed to original 80cm. Basically, he took the Juwel cabinet side panels, internal panels and doors to B&Q and got them (@ 50p per cut x 10 pieces ?) to trim 10cm off using B&Q monster cutting saw to guarantee smooth right angle cuts. Then drilled the dowel/fixing holes in the panels and ironed on black tape on cut edge of doors, reassembled cabinet. Need to be careful of hinge location on the doors, but obviously OK. Job done, 10cm shorter. Not sure I would have the nerve to do this to a new Juwel cabinet, 2nd hand maybe.


----------



## ian_m (23 Oct 2018)

One advantage of the Juwel system (and others maybe), is the use of tank hood flaps, to allow access to the tank without having to lift the whole hood off. So for feeding and minor fiddling you can get easy access. Also I find it handy (with my Vision 180), I take the flaps off and can lift the lighting unit out (I have the 4 tube one of these https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/aq.../iquatics-aqualumi-universal-4-tube-92cm.html) and rest it on the one half of the tank whilst I fiddle in the other half.

I you want the doggie danglers of hood lifter (oh er missus !!) then see this article. Yes another interesting thing to think about.
https://www.progressiveautomations.com/aquarium-automated-hood-lift/


----------



## Edvet (23 Oct 2018)

You can have a local welder/blacksmith make an iron frame. I had one made for my 400 gallon from 40x40 mm square tube.


----------



## Siege (23 Oct 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> It has to go on the righthand wall with the door, as in Ian's sketch; there's a radiator on the other wall.



You could move the radiator!


----------



## mort (24 Oct 2018)

I like the low stand idea. I'm in the process of setting up a new reef tank and I made the stand 60cm high and 120cm total with the tank on. The idea for this was partly so I could reach everywhere easily and see everything from sitting down but mainly because looking down on a reef is so much better than the side. As I'm looking down I will have a glass lid for the winter but replace it with a net jump guard in the summer when I have the windows open. I'd at least consider doing something similar with a large planted tank as I think you'd get so much extra out of this view.


----------



## Zeus. (24 Oct 2018)

My base is 70cm high which works well for viewing whilst sat down, plus not too high as armpit is at same height as the hood


----------



## tam (24 Oct 2018)

Our low (view from sitting) tanks are on brick pillars and just wrapped in wood front and sides.


----------



## Madhav (26 Oct 2018)

Juwel Rio 400, it fits perfect for for all your needs, not wallet friendly but worth every penny.


----------



## Fiske (26 Oct 2018)

I wouldn't worry about moisture from an open top tank unless you plan to have an 40.000 litre indoor koi pond. The average human probably exhales more water than most open topped tanks.

I am extremely happy about my EA 600, the 80 cm stand suits me like a glove (I'm ~183 cms) when working on it, and perfect height when viewing from the creaky chair.



 

The height is okay too if I throw a glance from my couch 3-4 metres away; although if I wanted the tank next to the couch and regularily observe it from that position, stand should preferably be 10-20 cm lower. So there's that. I find that not having a hood and top glass makes less obstruction for those small tasks you would otherwise postpone if the tank was hooded. This is one of the great things about open top tanks.
If I had any hope my floors could handle it, I would have gone straight for the EA 1200 instead, but alas.

In the end we are all different, and you are the best judge of what suits you.


----------



## Tim Harrison (26 Oct 2018)

Many thanks for the suggestions and info guys, very much appreciated


----------



## Majsa (26 Oct 2018)

A late suggestion, I like the Eheim Proxima series (I have the smallest, 175L). The hood consists of two black sliding glass panels on an aluminium frame, easy to slide open or just lift off. It comes in an open top version too. I actually liked the fact that there is no filter included in the set.


----------



## Edvet (27 Oct 2018)

Oh and it aint big till it''s over 200 gallon


----------



## Tim Harrison (27 Oct 2018)

That's not an aquarium, it's a fish pond


----------



## Col1in (11 Jan 2019)

Bit late but ND Aquatics will build one to size! So you can get the perfect fit...


----------



## Tim Harrison (11 Jan 2019)

Thanks for the info Col, looks like we might be moving again sometime this year ...so I've had to put that particular ambition on hold for the time being ...


----------



## Ady34 (11 Jan 2019)

My old tank was 264gallons approx.
Wouldn’t have liked to do the maintenance on a planted one.......


----------

