# Recommend me a body only camera sub £150



## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Looking mainly at 2nd hand DSLR, i know there are a fair few photography heads on here,  just wondering what people would choose at the really budget end, i'm not bothered about age or features, i just want to take some nice reversed lens macro shots.

Thanks in advance, Gus.


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## Nick potts (20 Nov 2021)

The body isn't all that important, even I rather old DSLR will take good pictures, it's all about the glass in front of it.

Having said that I haven't bought a new camera body in a long time, I am currently using a canon 550D,  has all the features I would need including video and an 18mp sensor, you could pick up a used one sub £100


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## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Somehow managed to spam 2 replies. whoops.


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## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Nick potts said:


> The body isn't all that important, even I rather old DSLR will take good pictures, it's all about the glass in front of it.


My plan is to get one of the lens adapters and front to front adapters, start with a single lens reversed, then go to 2 once i have the money for another lens, macro lenses are just too expensive for my means.


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## Nick potts (20 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> The body isn't all that important, even I rather old DSLR will take good pictures, it's all about the glass in front of it.
> My plan is to get one of the lens adapters and front to front adapters, start with a single lens reversed, then go to 2 once i have the money for another lens, macro lenses are just too expensive for my means.



Do you have any experience with reversed lenses or similar? It is frustratingly difficult to do, the depth of field is tiny and anything the moves is going to be next to impossible.

You could look at extension tubes which are a little easier.


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## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Nick potts said:


> Do you have any experience with reversed lenses or similar? It is frustratingly difficult to do, the depth of field is tiny and anything the moves is going to be next to impossible.
> 
> You could look at extension tubes which are a little easier.


I was also looking at locking the aperture how does that perform compared to reversed lenses or a extension tube? i mean i have a lot of patience, just not satisfied with cheap point and click shots.


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## Nick potts (20 Nov 2021)

The thing with a reversed lens or even extension tubes is that the aperture on the lens doesn't really make much difference to the depth of field. The nice pictures you will see on the internet using these methods are usually stacked shots of multiple images all taken at different distances and run through an editing program to get the entire thing in focus.

I remember trying it once for a while but it was just too frustrating for me so I buckled and bought a macro lens, and even they take some getting used to and learning techniques like proper lighting etc.

Edit to add, another issue with reversed lenses or extension tubes is the need tons of light (ideally a ring flash)


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## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Nick potts said:


> The thing with a reversed lens or even extension tubes is that the aperture on the lens doesn't really make much difference to the depth of field. The nice pictures you will see on the internet using these methods are usually stacked shots of multiple images all taken at different distances and run through an editing program to get the entire thing in focus.
> 
> I remember trying it once for a while but it was just too frustrating for me so I buckled and bought a macro lens, and even they take some getting used to and learning techniques like proper lighting etc.
> 
> Edit to add, another issue with reversed lenses or extension tubes is the need tons of light (ideally a ring flash)


Extension tube looks like the way i'm going to go... have you used an extension tube and diopter at the same time? i know lighting can be an issue with diopters,  i mean i'm not looking for "true macro" myself as i'm a complete amateur photographer, how are ring lights when photographing through glass?


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## Nick potts (20 Nov 2021)

With a tank, I would likey try and light from the top with a flash, otherwise you'll get reflections.

I haven't used the above combo, I have tried a raynox macro with some success. I can only say that whatever route you choose macro is a steep learning curve at the best of times 

This is with the raynox and I think 70mm lens 









These were taken with a cheap 35mm Olympus macro lens


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## Angus (20 Nov 2021)

Oh man those are really nice nick! gives fuel to my fire for sure, well at least i have a path i'm going down now, it can only lead to better quality than i currently have.


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## MichaelJ (21 Nov 2021)

Nick potts said:


> The body isn't all that important, even I rather old DSLR will take good pictures, it's all about the glass in front of it.


@Nick potts   Yes, the glass is key.... But the last couple of generations of DSLR cameras made great strides on sensitivity vs. noise performance. It gives you the ability to shoot at ridiculously high ISO and still get a sharp and low noise images - this is especially valuable when shooting fish in low-light tanks as it enables you to shoot at fast shutter speeds.  Personally I am currently shooting with a great, but fairly aged 5DSR 50mp, and I own a ton of EF-L lenses. I don't really do much tank photography, but for my general (daylight) photography its all about the lenses for sure.

Great shots above! 👍 

Cheers,
Michael


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## Angus (21 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> @Nick potts   Yes, the glass is key.... But the last couple of generations of DSLR cameras made great strides on sensitivity vs. noise performance. It gives you the ability to shoot at ridiculously high ISO and still get a sharp and low noise images - this is especially valuable when shooting fish in low-light tanks as it enables you to shoot at fast shutter speeds.  Personally I am currently shooting with a great, but fairly aged 5DSR 50mp, and I own a ton of EF-L lenses. I don't really do much tank photography, but for my general (daylight) photography its all about the lenses for sure.
> 
> Great shots above! 👍
> 
> ...


5DSR A little out of my range... i went for a EOS 500d that came with a standard lens and a battery grip, also bought a set of extender tubes with the metal contacts for auto focus, and some filters/diopters to play with as they were quite cheap.
I will look to upgrade lenses later my wallet is full of mothballs.


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## Angus (24 Nov 2021)

So i tested to make sure it's working, this snail is the result of about 30 some test shots with the crappy portrait/landscape lens that came with it and some extender tubes and a +3 diopter, still waiting on my reverse set up, time to learn!
Plant is helianthum tenellum and the snail is a ramshorn.


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## MichaelJ (24 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> So i tested to make sure it's working, this snail is the result of about 30 some test shots with the crappy portrait/landscape lens that came with it and some extender tubes and a +3 diopter, still waiting on my reverse set up, time to learn!
> Plant is helianthum tenellum and the snail is a ramshorn.


Not bad there @Angus ... Try and increase the distance a bit from the subject matter to get more depth of field. A sharp image at lower resolution is better (usually - depending on your artistic vision) than a blurry image at higher resolution.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Angus (24 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Not bad there @Angus ... Try and increase the distance a bit from the subject matter to get more depth of field. A sharp image at lower resolution is better (usually - depending on your artistic vision) than a blurry image at higher resolution.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael


Thanks for the advice michael, really appreciated.  
i'm going to try an isolation hood on the lens when photgraphing through the glass when i get my carl zeiss fast fifty, i can't get the fish till i get my soft flash hahaha they are too fast.


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## MichaelJ (24 Nov 2021)

Angus said:


> carl zeiss fast fifty


Sweet!  Thats a great piece of glass!


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## Angus (24 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Sweet!  Thats a great piece of glass!


At an even sweeter price...! and i got the adapters so i can use it both ways round as it has a really nice bokeh for normal photography.


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## swyftfeet (2 Dec 2021)

I can speak some about cameras and lenses and how they work:
you'll notice that manufacturers generally have 2 different priced lenses that are roughly the same at first glance, same focal length.  However they vary greatly in price, one being on the order of 3-4x more expensive.  The cheaper one is meant for APS frames and the more expensive one is meant for full frames but can certainly be used on APS camera bodies(of the same manufacturer), you really don't want to use an APS lens on a full frame camera the image that it paints on the sensor is not going to be as high a quality on like 40% of the overall image. The cheaper lenses have a much smaller area of the lens that has to be ground well enough to meet QC standards that's one portion of why they are cheaper. Generally the more expensive ones will have 2-5 more pieces of glass (correcting chromatic and spacial distortions) in them as well, the big thing you will notice is the F-Stop will go much lower on the expensive lens.

Link: sensor sizes comparison

Each click of the F-stop is double/ or half the amount of light coming in, meaning it is opening the iris that much more,

A pinhole camera (Fstop of >32) has an indefinite depth of field.   However a very "fast" lens like one that goes down to an F stop of 1.8  when wide open has a very small depth of field.  that's how all the wedding photographers get that fuzzy background when they take portraits.  They open that sucker wide up and even at a distance of 5-6 feet from the target theyre lucky to get 5-6" of depth of field where the focus is perfect.   All things being proportional you hopefully get the drift.

Generally when tying to capture the perfect shot you need the following
*Proper depth of field
*Proper Lighting
*Proper exposure time (if the object is moving even slightly you dont want blur)
*Low Sensor Noise  (Ideally a camera takes the chromatically most accurate shot with the sensor at unity gain depending on the manufacturer that is 1 or 0.  )

What you end up with is a giant compromise because a number of those require opposing environmental inputs or are cost prohibitive to solve.

you fight not having enough light (probably the most expensive to correct) by some combination of:
*opening the F-Stop - reduces depth of field
*increasing the exposure time - can cause blurriness do to either hand shake or object moving
*increasing analog and digital gain of the camera sensor - lowers the accuracy of the color capture

Regarding pixel density CMOS sensors have really come a long way in the last 10 or so years and you can pack a lot more pixels in the same area, however that requires more light as pixel thats half the size in both X-Y is only being hit by a 1/4 of the light.  so they are noisier.  Theres a lot of color correction going on in a DSLR camera.

End Summary:
if you choose a Full frame camera body even used, youre going to want to have full frame lenses which will end up costing you tons.  if you choose a newer APS camera body that has a metric buttload of error correction you can still get beautiful photos and still splurge on a lens if you really want a nice one however the total size of the image will be a bit smaller meaning a 28mm lens on an APS is closer will capture the same image as a 35mm on a full frame if the pixel count is equal at roughly the same distance.  however if you slap a 35mm full frame lens on a APS camera its going to be a smaller FOV.  If you slap a APS lens on a full frame camera theres going to be some aberrations on the outer edges of the captured image.

Generally lenses will hold their value quite well and bodies wont.    The newer tech on the bodies can provide significantly better shots meaning a newer APS might be a better purchase than an older Full frame costs being equal.

Clive will probably soon tell you that doing a color correction for the environment that youre taking the shot will fix off colors and he's correct. you need a target thats big enough to fit the entire FoV.


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## Angus (2 Dec 2021)

My latest efforts... this photography lark ain't easy.... and I'm not gonna lie the above post definitely went a bit over my head.... I gave it my best try comprehending it though  I'm loving trying at least.








Photographing through glass is a pain in the ass as you can see by my big fat lens


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