# Rhizoclonium makes a come back



## bjorn (26 Mar 2011)

I managed to get rid of Rhizoclonium previously, but it's now come back again. Everything seemed to be just fine with both CO2, Fertilizers and Flow in the tank. It's not exactly spreading a lot but it's definitly there.

I've done two things recently (messed with..):

1. Somewhat major change around with plants in the tank which stirred up the substrate a bit. 

2. Started to use a PH Controller, which means the CO2 flucuated for a few days while I calibrated it.

Could either of these on their own, or together make Rhizoclonium appear again?

How long after such disurbance or changes would you expect to see Rhizoclonium show up? Immidiate, week later or?

AFTER it has appeared, and everything is optimal with light, CO2, fertilizers etc.. should it go away by itself or can it still grow or survive unless you make an effort to get rid of it?


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## Garuf (26 Mar 2011)

Both of these changes you made are capable on their own of giving you algae, the first because you will have released ammonia and detritus into the water column the second by actually causing unstable co2. Ph controllers are only ever going to make your life more difficult no matter what illusion of total control they give you.


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## ceg4048 (26 Mar 2011)

Hello,
        The rhizoclonium in your tank may have nothing to do with either of the two actions that you mention. When analyzing problems in the tank one must be careful when assessing cause and effect. The reason for this is that there are thousands of variables in the tank that you have no control over and yet which can easily affect your observations.

Instead  of starting from a position of; "I performed this action yesterday and saw this effect today" it is more logical to start with the things that we know about the effect and then work our way backwards. We may then find that the cause was something more fundamental (and unrelated to the actions) and that perhaps the actions that were performed only serve to mitigate or to exacerbate the real cause.

As stated specifically on JamesC's algae guide, rhizoclonium is caused by:


> Low CO2 and poor water flow. Low nutrient levels. General lack of maintenance.


So there are four possibilities here to investigate/eliminate.

While it is entirely possible that your actions resulted in low CO2 you still need to keep an open mind that one or more of the other three causes may be root cause.

Rhizo reacts negatively to Excel so you may want to quickly eliminate it by using this. If it returns then you know that the root cause is still present.

The questions regarding time factors/schedules cannot be answered with any level of accuracy because of the effects of all the factors. In general, any algae, once triggered does not care if you repair the environment because they love nutrients and CO2 just like plants do. You have to get rid of them by violent methods. It's the plants that you are repairing, not the algae. You really need to "get" this idea. There are always two issues in an algae attack. The first issue is environmental repair which supports plant health. The second issue is eviction of the algae that is present.

Cheers,


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## bjorn (26 Mar 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> The questions regarding time factors/schedules cannot be answered with any level of accuracy because of the effects of all the factors. In general, any algae, once triggered does not care if you repair the environment because they love nutrients and CO2 just like plants do. You have to get rid of them by violent methods. It's the plants that you are repairing, not the algae. You really need to "get" this idea. There are always two issues in an algae attack. The first issue is environmental repair which supports plant health. The second issue is eviction of the algae that is present.
> 
> Cheers,



Thanks, I do understand that it's not straight forward. 

*I'm just trying to confirm if Rhizoclonium would go away by itself if everything is at the right level, CO2, Flow etc.. OR would you always have to do a deep clean, big water change + excel etc to get rid of it?*

The tank was doing very well up until I did those 2 changes last week and still is. Plants are growing and looking good and pearling. The CO2 is kept at a constant level from morning to evening when lights go off (Drop Checker at limegreen from the time lights go on). Fertilizers should be good as it's not changed either (EI dose). Light levels have been the same for a long time now. And I clean, trim and do 50% water change each week. Water flow is the same as before, good circulation.

I do use a PH controller now, however it does not switch off and on the CO2 constanantly, it's only set to switch off CO2 should it drop too far.. which it doesn't do other than at night when the plants stopped using CO2.


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## bjorn (26 Mar 2011)

Sorry, I guess you answered my question actually, just had to read it a couple of times lol

I think you are saying that it possible that me moving plants around, disturbing the substrate followed by a couple of days where CO2 flucutate be the cause of Rhizoclonium (but there could be other causes as well). But that once Rhizoclonium has appeared, the only way to get rid of it a deep clean + dosing with Excel.

Right?


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## ceg4048 (28 Mar 2011)

Well, here's the thing. Everybody seems to think that the tank stays the same, witness:


			
				bjorn said:
			
		

> Fertilizers should be good as it's not changed either (EI dose). Light levels have been the same for a long time now. And I clean, trim and do 50% water change each week. Water flow is the same as before, good circulation.


But this is not really true. It's not even close to being true. If your plants have been growing for a month or two isn't there more biomass in the tank above and below the substrate? Roots are heavier, leaves are heavier. The nutrient/CO2 demand is also heavier. If the leaves are taller, are they not closer to the light? If they are closer to the light doesn't that mean they are being bombarded with higher energy and therefore accelerate their metabolism? If the plants are thicker do they not create more blockage of flow which slows down nutrient/CO2 uptake? Bacteria population levels have changed. Ammonia content of the sediment is higher. Organic waste production is higher.

It can be argued that everything is different. It might easily be that the algae would have recurred a few weeks later, even if you hadn't done anything at all as regards pH controller. This is what I'm trying to get you to see. The controller issues may have simply pushed it over the edge sooner but it could be that fundamentally the infrastructure of the tank was weak to begin with.

Normally, the type of algae that occurs from a pH controller is BBA, not Rhizo, because BBA is triggered by CO2 fluctuations induced by the controller. Therefore, the triggering mechanisms do not match what you are seeing. If you actually went some days without CO2 then this might explain it.

Because Rhizo has such a wide set of triggers it's always necessary to review all the factors. One has to immediately consider; "Am I dosing enough, is the set point of the controller low enough, do I need to tweak my flow/distribution?

You have to perform exactly the same analysis as you did when you had your previous outbreak and not be hypnotized by the possibility that it is related to your recent actions. Your troubleshooting must be systematic and rational, not knee-jerk.

Cheers,


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## rohitsingh_81 (16 Dec 2011)

I have recently been fighting with Rhizoclonium in my 2 feet tank. 

How it started: I was out of city for 2 days and wife accidently switched off the filter while trying to plug in her laptop in switch board. For 2 days, tank was under 3+WPG without Filter & CO2 (CO2 being induced by external diffuser driven by FIlter). The only thing running in the tank was my Krolia pump....thank god for that. When I was back, it was a Rhizoclonium jungle. 

My multiple tries: 3 Day blackout did a good job but it was back. I threw in Otto's but it was not interested in Rhizoclonium. Started double dosing of Excel.... it was controlled but not eliminated. Frequent water changes did not made much of difference. This fight went on for 1.5 months and I had almost given up.

Final Rescuer: I brought 50-60 Malaysian shrimps and threw them in. Next day, I was searching for the remains of Rhizoclonium. In 3 days, these little guys ate it all. Its been a week now.... and I am unable to find it.

So...to all the people who are bugged by Rhizoclonium.......get these little bastards (Malaysian Shrimps) if you can find in ur vicinity.

All the best !!


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