# Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp



## oatfish

I bought 10 of these yesterday so thought I'd set up this topic as a what they like/don't like depending on how it goes!  I have done a lot of reading about the water parameters that they seem to like/breed in but some advice is conflicting so I am just going to try and use my judgement/take advice from anyone in the know (LD?!) and put it in to practice.
After setting up a small 30l tank with rocks, a slate stack (siliconed to the back of the tank, this was a previous Cherey tank but they have been moved to my big planted tank now) and some algae/moss covered rocks from a current planted tank, I filled it with water with a high pH of 8, and low KH and GH (about 2 and 3 respectively) and set the temp to 27 deg C.  After quizzing the shop on their water parameters (pH 8.4, Very high KH and GH about 18-20 or both and temp of 24 deg C) where the shrimp had been happy for over a week I got back, panicked that my water hardness was too low and would shock them and set about raising the GH and KH using out hard tap water.  The stats were now pH 8.2, KH 6, GH 8 and temp 27 deg C.  I acclimatised the shrimp over 7 hours and finally let them free with my fingers crossed.  Today they are all alive (as far as I can tell) and happily grazing on the rocks in the tank. Fingers crossed and feel free to send any advice my way!
Thanks for reading


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## aaronnorth

a couple of guides
http://www.ukshrimp.co.uk/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=54

http://www.planetinverts.com/Cardinal_Shrimp.html


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## oatfish

Thanks Aaron!


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## LondonDragon

PH 7 or above, ideal 7.5+ (if you have sulawesi snails too) and temps of 27ÂºC. Feed them calcium rich foods and they will be fine, the snails don't tolorate any amonia or nitrite in the water so you must have a proper cycled tank to keep the snails and shrimp, if not they won't survive long. Also I would not recommend CO2 or liquid carbon. Good luck


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## oatfish

Thanks LD the tank has seeded sand and algae covered rocks from my other tank and a sponge filter thats been running for several months from my cory tank plus 30% water from the cory tank (no detectable nitrite or ammonia in it) so fingers crossed that will be enough to keep the ammonia and nitrite down! I do not plan to inject CO2 or easycarbo or anything else etc. as I just have rocks and moss in there.  
Have you had the snails too LD? The LFS had lots of dead Sulawesi snails/empty shells so will the snails work as an indicator prior to the nitrite and ammonia affecting the shrimp?  Not that I plan to let that happen, I plan to have frequent small water changes through every few days rather than one larger wc each week, but I wondered what your experiences were?


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## LondonDragon

I have never kept the snails, but they are extremelly fussy to water conditions, specially PH and temp. If you want to breed the shrimp try to keep temp at 27C and PH at around 7.5


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## oatfish

Some (bit rubbish) pics of the Cardinals - for better pics see LDs brilliant cardinal pics


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## mr. luke

Nice shrimps 
Its now said that 28 is the absolubt maximum tep for the shrimps so your temperature should be fine 
If they are doing well i wouldnt fiddle too much with the water. good luck


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## oatfish

Still fine!  They are picking on the algae from the old rocks.  Some pics of the snails:


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## LondonDragon

Oh forgot to mention, this shrimp are not particularly interested in a tank full of plants, Sulawesi prefer sand and plenty of rocks in the tank 
Nice photos, use the macro function (flower sign) of the camera and get a little closer, use high ISOs if you can or use the built in flash, taking the photos at a slight angle so you don't get the flash in the glass, if its too strong cover it with a piece of white printer paper, more layers to reduce the light


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## oatfish

Thanks LD - I doubt I'd have much luck growing plants in here even if I wanted too!  Just gave them some Hikari Crab Cuisine crushed up and they searched the tank for bits of it and ate them fast.  I have some Hikari Shrimp Cuisine on order - hopefully that will be fine for them, plus the odd bit of crushed flake food and a bit of courgette (just blanched some to test them on) 
I used the macro on the camera but the front of the glass is curved making taking pics of them tricky, I'll have a play with the camera when I have more time.  The shrimp are quite shy, retreating into gaps in the rock unless I sit still, them they come out and forage whilst having antennae battles.


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## LondonDragon

Don't crush the food, it will take longer to break then and giving the shrimp more time to find it


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## oatfish

Ahhh!  Ok, See, what would I do without you LD!


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## LondonDragon

oatfish said:
			
		

> Ahhh!  Ok, See, what would I do without you LD!


Haha you would be just fine  shrimp food takes longer to break up for a reason


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## oatfish

Quick update, all still live...YAY!  And some have shed.  Added 4 more sulawsi snails so now I have 6, I am thinking a bigger tank might be in order...  Carried out a 10% WC no worries, next stage - babies (fingers crossed)


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## LondonDragon

oatfish said:
			
		

> next stage - babies (fingers crossed)


These guys take a long time to adapt and to start breeding, just keep them alive for a few months and see how it goes  the shrimp will help too.


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## Nelson

hi 
 how the little fella's doing :?:


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## oatfish

Hey Neil, all good, no deaths and out foraging everyday.  Feeding happily on Hikari shrimp cuisine now.  I saw one fanning but as I tried to take a closer look it retreated into the rocks, I think it might be too early for eggs but I have my fingers crossed.  I added 4 cherry shrimp from my main tank and that has made them far less shy as they can see other shrimp out foraging.  All snails fine too and growing!  Just a matter of time I think and luck


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## Nelson

hi,
good to hear.any pics


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## oatfish

Will get some up soon! (And less blurry ones too....)


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## Nelson

i'd forgotton you'd already posted pics  .was just wondering how they were doing and didn't look through the thread


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## oatfish

Update: No shrimp babies yet, but just found 2 baby Sulawesi snails in the tank, they are super cute but kind of large - they weren't obvious 5 days ago when I did the last water change!  Seems the water parameters are fine, at least for the snails!  I have had 2 shrimp deaths that I know of and usually see 6 shrimp at one time  so hopefully I have 8 left...


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## Nelson

hi,
sorry to hear about the deaths.not bad going so far though,at your first attempt.
you'll be selling snails soon


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## oatfish

Yeah!  They are not as prolific as normal snails though, typical.  The two shrimp deaths, one was an unknown cause but the other developed a lump (not fungal or bacterial from what I could tell) and just didn't shed properly and I found it dead    
Fingers crossed for the remaining


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## LondonDragon

oatfish said:
			
		

> Yeah!  They are not as prolific as normal snails though, typical.  The two shrimp deaths, one was an unknown cause but the other developed a lump (not fungal or bacterial from what I could tell) and just didn't shed properly and I found it dead
> Fingers crossed for the remaining


Diet it essential for their shedding, make sure you feed them foods high in calcium  good luck, put me down for some snails when you breed enough hehe


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## oatfish

The one that died from not shedding properly was not long after I got them, since then I have found lots of successful sheds, but fingers crossed!  Apart from shrimp pellets, what else did you find yours liked to eat LD?  I have tried them on courgette and spinach but they seemed disinterested in both


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## mr. luke

Are you blanching the spinach? (dip it in boiling water for a few seconds)


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## oatfish

Yep, They are quite shy so it is trick to see what they do eat, maybe I just need to persist!


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## a1Matt

Try organic as well! 

Not sure if it is the same for shrimps, but my Otos will eat Sainsburys organic cucumber but are not too keen on the non-organic one.  I guess the taste of pesticides puts them off. Can't hurt to try


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## oatfish

ok, will give it a go and update you!  A shrimp smorgasbord coming up.... (as in food for the shrimp not shrimp as the food   )


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## viktorlantos

i thought i show you mine. they just looks amazing in my Nano. I have 12 of them.


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## LondonDragon

Looking great Viktor, unfortunatly I got mine as my substrate started turning to crap and they didn't last very long after that, I will try them again in the future thats for sure


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## oatfish

WOW! Gorgeous set up, Mine are just in a tank with some rocks and some moss.  What do you find yours like to eat?


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## viktorlantos

oatfish said:
			
		

> WOW! Gorgeous set up, Mine are just in a tank with some rocks and some moss.  What do you find yours like to eat?



thanks guys. will try to shoot some better ones later 
yeah i heard that they like better the rocks. however i can tell you that they love the moss jungle  whatever they find in the tank they eat. The setup is really fresh a month old or so. So there are some algae not that much, but i add some Shirakura shrimp food every 2nd day.

Hope they will breed. I had success earlier with similar nano tank with other shimps.


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## LondonDragon

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> Hope they will breed. I had success earlier with similar nano tank with other shimps.


I have heard that these little guys take a long time to adapat but they do breed in aquriums, couple of mates from Portugal have bred them, but only have they had them about 5 months.


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## Fred Dulley

Well done Viktor.
If I were a shrimp, it would a very difficult choice between your tank or Paulo's. Both are stunning.


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## oatfish

Found another Sulawesi snail baby today, yay!  Funny how I get very excited about these snails breeding but not the pest ones in my big tank   .... now if they bred as fast as those....


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## Garuf

How are you finding them in a dosed and co2 injected aquarium? Are they as touchy as people suggest? I see you're using ADA aquasoil do they mind the lower ph?


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## viktorlantos

Garuf said:
			
		

> How are you finding them in a dosed and co2 injected aquarium? Are they as touchy as people suggest? I see you're using ADA aquasoil do they mind the lower ph?



This is too early to tell anything about them, but i did not have any problem with Aqua Soil or CO2 or even Carbo.
PH is around 6.8-7 after the water stabilized. CO2 is running with the light but i am not overdosing it. At night this is off.
I also dosing 1ml Easy Carbo as the Nano is a planted aquarium really. Flow is good enough. 
These beauties are very active, so i do not see any problem here.

But will be smarter later. I had others shimps earlier and they doubled tripled their community in 4-5 months. So will keep my eye on them.   

Fred, thanks i try to do my best. But really lovely how they enjoy the moss forest in the Nano


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## fish.com1

Nice shrimp Viktor, and Oatfish


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## viktorlantos

Garuf said:
			
		

> How are you finding them in a dosed and co2 injected aquarium? Are they as touchy as people suggest? I see you're using ADA aquasoil do they mind the lower ph?



Garuf, i find this page about Cardinals: 
http://planetinverts.com/Cardinal_Shrimp.html

This also says there are no problem with Aqua Soil.

_"The tank consists of ADA Amazonia substrate, a temperature of 84F and a pH of 7.0. Some have stated that the low ph of 7.0 due to the ADA Amazonia is not good for this species. Right now I disagree. All of the Sulawesi Shrimp that I currently house are doing very well in this setup and so far even the babies are doing very well. The babies are constantly picking away for food which is of course a good sign."_


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## oatfish

Found two more snail babies this morning!  There'll be no room for shrimp at this rate....


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## LondonDragon

oatfish said:
			
		

> Found two more snail babies this morning!  There'll be no room for shrimp at this rate....


I will take some of those shrimp when you don't want them mate


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## oatfish

Haha, that gave me a good giggle.... I think it'll be the snails going on the sale/swop board rather than the shrimp tho!


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## rawr

Where are these Salawesi shrimp/snails from? (Georgraphically.)


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## Nelson

> Where are these Salawesi shrimp/snails from? (Georgraphically.)



sulawesi   

no seriously,indonesia  http://www.planetinverts.com/sulawesi_expedition.html


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## rawr

It would be so funny if it was Sulawesi...geography never has been my strong point! Thanks for the link.


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## oatfish

Very sad to find a dead shrimp this morning, no apparent reason, however, I was checking them this evening and found a female carrying eggs!  So hopefully the dead one this morning was a male and he has done his work   
ANyway, will keep you posted, it's a tense time for me, if I test the water any more the're be none left in the tank....I think I'll chill a bit now


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## rawr

I'm sure a few dead shrimp was just them going through the 'settling period' or something like that.  But great news on the eggs! Keep us posted on the progress.


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## LondonDragon

Congrats on the eggs  just make sure you keep the temp constant at 27C and PH above 7 and they will be fine, in 30-40 days time you will have plenty of little ones swiming about  Good luck


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## andyh

Guys, were are you getting these shrimps! ? I have been looking in the midlands for ages now and not found any, if anybody has seen these let me know, i will travel.  

Andy


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## gratts

> Guys, were are you getting these shrimps! ? I have been looking in the midlands for ages now and not found any, if anybody has seen these let me know, i will travel.



All Maidenheads have the ability to order them in. Most of them understandably don't!


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## viktorlantos

i ordered them from a German breeder:
http://www.gs-wirbellosenhandel.de/epag ... i_Garnelen

the shipping arrived in 2 days after they prepared the package. ordered 12 of them and my breeder friend also ordered a team a while ago. worked great. all shrimp arrived in great condition and they are alive since then. you should give a try.


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## MarkyG

some one selling on these on aquarist classifieds for Â£8 http://www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk/p ... 136880.php


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## Nelson

any updates on these Heather.


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## oatfish

Just come back from hols to find my final 4 dead   
Very sad.  I have no idea, but something clearly was not right for them. The tended to die off in pairs.  I actually think my tank was too small and the fluctuations were too much for them despite the tank being in a suitable spot (no draughts/sun etc.)  If I was to try them again, and I won't be for the near future, I'd set up a much bigger tank.  I miss them though   
I hope everyone else is having success!
The snails on the other hand are breeding quite fast, I must have about 12 now


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## Nelson

oh no,bummer  .at least the snails are doing good  .


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## a1Matt

I've been following this thread from the start, and it is really sad to hear that the shrimps didn't last.
I wish you better luck next time Heather.


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## TDI-line

I bought 3 of these from my MA@Crowland (Peterborough), but all have now died, maybe next time.


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## oatfish

Yes, it was looking promising what with a berried female etc.  I kept checking the water parameters and even when I came back from hols (only away 5 days) the parameters seemed to be normal (for Sulawesi anyway!) and the temp at it's usual 28 deg C so I really have no idea.  That led to my conclusion that it must have been the small tank size that meant very small fluctuations that I didn't see/detect that led to their deaths.  If I was going to try them again I would set up a much bigger tank.  Hopefully this info can help future Sulawesi shrimp keepers   

Am pleased with the snails but they do seem consideralbly easier to keep!


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## hipknoteyes

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> i ordered them from a German breeder:
> http://www.gs-wirbellosenhandel.de/epag ... i_Garnelen
> 
> the shipping arrived in 2 days after they prepared the package. ordered 12 of them and my breeder friend also ordered a team a while ago. worked great. all shrimp arrived in great condition and they are alive since then. you should give a try.



I bought 7 from a different German Breeder, 5 were DOA and the other 2 died within a couple of days --- these little beauties don't travel very well be very careful.


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## viktorlantos

Sure they are sensitive ones. Also they do not like the colder weather. Below 25 celsius they die.

The one breeder i pasted worked well. My breeder friend also ordered 10+ from him and all is in great condition. Maybe this is just the breeder.

On the other hand these shrimps are hard to keep and breed. From the original 12 pieces i lost 7 in a few months. Not enough aeration? Probably. I keep the water warm 27-28 celsius etc.

At the same time my breeder friend has all of it still. And there the shrimps are breeding. Nothing more than soil and Stones in his aquarium. Just like the place these shrimps live.


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## mr. luke

Just got 3 of these little wonders =]
Will see how they fair over the next week...
So far they seem fairly happy, having a good root around the tank


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## Wraithio

Lets hope they fare well for you Mr Luke.


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## mr. luke

They are stil kicking as far as i can tell (usually see 2 together)
Any updates in the shrimp world for you?


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## chrisjj

Hello, 

I've got 4 of these guys and had them for 10 days.  They seem to be doing OK so far happily munching away with evidence that at least 2 have molted.

I bought them as an impulse buy before doing any research (they just looked so cool in the shop!).  I've since realised that my conditions aren't quite right;

They're in there with my fish, though there are lots of places to hide (& they hide very well!) & 

my *pH is about 6.5!!*

But they seem to be doing fine so far


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## mr. luke

Good luck with them 
Id try to bring the ph up if stocking alows it.
I lost mine along with various fan shrimps and non-breeders along with my stock of ricefish as my tank crashed  due to a filter breakage


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