# FLUVAL LED /Lumens help!



## Tenochteco (8 Sep 2019)

Dear all

I just need some help here, please?

I have 3 Fluval LED lamps. 2 of them are 1850 lumen (25w ) and the other one is 1100 lumen (16w)  If I use all of them, full power , will I really get 4800 lumen? 

I have an *125.8 liters*, which is approximately 30 gallons, (technically there are only 80 liters of water in the tank). and I'm just trying to figure out the right number of lumens I need. I've started to grow some beard algae and I'm convinced is because the strong light. You can see this in the picture below.

According to tropica lumen chart, you need 10 to 20 lumen per liter for easy plants and 20 to 30  lumen for medium difficulty plants.

My lights are on for 11 hrs a day (full power) , 6 hrs of co2 with 2.5 bubble per second and I don't do liquid fertilizer just yet.

As a substrate I use JBL PROSCAPE VOLCANO MINERAL, John Innes 1, Dennerle Nutri Basis 6 in 1 and I top it up with sand.

All my plants have been planted one week ago on a fully mature tank.

Alternanthera reinecki "Red"
Lilaeopsis Brazil
Lilaeopsis Brazil
Echinodorus Osirus
Echinodorus tenellus
Mayaca fluviatilis
Myriophyllum elatinoides
Heteranthera zosteraefolia
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Quadricostatus

Basically I just want to know how to work out with my lights! Should I lower it down? less hrs of light. 


Any advice is highly appreciated! Thank you all!


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## zozo (9 Sep 2019)

Tenochteco said:


> I have 3 Fluval LED lamps. 2 of them are 1850 lumen (25w ) and the other one is 1100 lumen (16w) If I use all of them, full power , will I really get 4800 lumen?



Well as long as we have no option to realy measure it, than we cannot argue with the label. It's indeed the common formula used to determine or give lumen output specs by adding all sources up. In how far this is accurate only can be disputed with using relative expensive lux and or par meters.

Without it, it's a best guess, trail and error and wait for results.. If the results are ok than you're good, if not you maybe need more.

But light is for most aqaurium plants not the most dominant limiting factor.. It's more CO² availability and its distribution that gives the limiting factor. Than if things don't work out this should be reviewed first to make sure its enough and stable.

Than 11 hours light could be a tad much for still addapting plants in transition. Plants still in transition cannot utilize it fully without enough submersed form foilage. Than you will most likely fovar algae growth.. Algae also has a much lower light compensation point than plants do. Thus in lower light conditions plants are almost at a stand still when algae is still growing. You would likely be beter of in the plants transitioning periode that might take several weeks, to give a short burst of high intensity light. For example no longer than 6 hours 100% intensity and 18 hours darkness. This reduces algae development and gives the plants still enough periode to transition. Once this process is completed and all is happily growing in submersed form, than slowly encrease the periode with an hour per week and see how it coops with it. 12 hours can easily be reached with sufficient and healthy growing plants. Even 18 hours light play can be reached without much issues. But its not an excact sience that we can give a number or a list of does and dont's, there are to many factors in play that make succes or failure.

But reading through the forum and counting experiences, most fare well initialy with short intens light periodes and stable CO² administering in a wide range of light intensities.

Long dynamic light periodes with a longer low light than high light periode often results in algae issues favoring BBA the most.


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## dw1305 (9 Sep 2019)

Hi all,
You could shorten the photo-period. I wouldn't go under six hours. 

I really like some floating plants as, they aren't CO2 limited and they naturally grow in bright light conditions. I <"always have floating plants">, other people just use them for the establishment phase. 





Tenochteco said:


> I've started to grow some beard algae and I'm convinced is because the strong light


It is a light issue, *but *it is also actually a good sign.

The <"green algae"> and all the higher plants (<"Moss, Ferns & seed plants">) share the same basic physiology, photo-systems and photosynthetic pigments, because they all have a common ancestor and belong to the same clade <"Viridiplantae">. 

This means that if conditions are suitable for the green algae to grow, they are also suitable for your plants. 


Tenochteco said:


>


Not every-one is going to agree, but I really like your green algal patina, it looks nice and natural. 

Snails will graze it, I use <"Red Ramshorn and Tadpole snails">, other with harder water will use the various <"Nerite species">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Tenochteco (9 Sep 2019)

dw1305 said:


> You could shorten the photo-period. I wouldn't go under six hours.


Fisrt of all, thank you for your reply.  Now I wonder if I should keep my lamps at full power but shorter tim, lets say 7 hrs? Would that be ok? Or should I cut down both time and light power?


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## Tenochteco (9 Sep 2019)

zozo said:


> Than you will most likely fovar algae growth



Hence the thick layer of algae in the wall, I guess?




zozo said:


> You would likely be beter of in the plants transitioning period that might take several weeks



Any estimate length of time for this? My plants are in vitro grown.




zozo said:


> For example no longer than 6 hours 100% intensity and 18 hours darkness



My tank has been set up for a week, so if I change to this values you are suggesting, do you think it can harm or stress the plants?




zozo said:


> Once this process is completed and all is happily growing in submersed form, than slowly increase the period with an hour per week



 How long do you think is accepted? An estimate guess?


Thank you for your time an effort to reply back!


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## dw1305 (9 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 





Tenochteco said:


> Now I wonder if I should keep my lamps at full power but shorter time, lets say 7 hrs? Would that be ok?


I tend to use whatever lamps I have to hand, and then I just increase the floating plant cover to more fully utilise the PAR. Because floating plants aren't CO2 limited it is a <"bit different for them">.

Personally I'd keep the lights at full power for six or seven hours, you know you have enough PAR for plant growth and your plants look pretty healthy. All I'd do is just add some floating plants. 





Tenochteco said:


> and I don't do liquid fertilizer just yet.


I'd probably start adding some fertiliser fairly soon.  

I use <"plant health"> as my trigger of when to add nutrients, but I don't use CO2.  Most CO2 users will will use <"EI"> as their nutrient addition method.

cheers Darrel


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## Tenochteco (9 Sep 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I use <"plant health"> as my trigger of when to add nutrients, but I don't use CO2. Most CO2 users will will use <"EI"> as their nutrient addition method.


I do use co2   2.5-3 bpse, but my soil I want to believe it is extremely rich , as I stated before I do use John Innes 1, which I believe has more than enough nutrients for the roots plant. Correct me please if I’m wrong?


Thank you again Darrel!


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## dw1305 (9 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 





Tenochteco said:


> I do use co2 2.5-3 bpse


I would definitely get a <"drop checker">, my suspicion would be that you have a <"fairly low level of CO2 addition">, but you can really tell.





Tenochteco said:


> but my soil I want to believe it is extremely rich , as I stated before I do use John Innes 1, which I believe has more than enough nutrients for the roots plant.


It does at the moment, you can tell this because your algae and plants are growing and are a nice healthy green colour. 

At some point one of those nutrients will start to <"become limiting">. I wait until this happens, other make sure it doesn't happen by following the EI protocol. 

cheers darrel


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## Tenochteco (9 Sep 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I would definitely get a <"drop checker">, my suspicion would be that you have a <"fairly low level of CO2 addition">, but you can really tell.



So, Im finally home after work. Ive just adjusted my lights timing. From tomorrow full power and only 6 hrs , from 3.30pm till 9.30 pm. Co2 increased 4 bps  but only 4 hrs. Next week I will increase one more hrs light from 2.30pm. Let's hope for the best and thank you for all your help!


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