# Will my rams eat my shrimp.



## Lee iley

Hi guys, 

Just bought a pair of rams today. Just wondering if they will eat my cherrys or amano shrimp. The lady I asked said they won't. But they are just after a sale. I managed to get a shot of one of them because when I got them the description just said rams. Didn't say which type of ram and she didn't know. The other ram is a light grey colour I think that on is the male. And this one is the female. Any help would be great thanks.


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## Konsa

Hi
Cherry Shrimp  yes or at least the little ones.
Amano no.
It may work if cherries have hiding spots.


Regards Konsa


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## Tommy

Lee iley said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just bought a pair of rams today. Just wondering if they will eat my cherrys or amano shrimp. The lady I asked said they won't. But they are just after a sale. I managed to get a shot of one of them because when I got them the description just said rams. Didn't say which type of ram and she didn't know. The other ram is a light grey colour I think that on is the male. And this one is the female. Any help would be great thanks.



Hi Lee, that looks like a German Gold Ram (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) to me mate


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## Lee iley

Thank you for that. I have managed to get a pic of the other one aswel. Will they eat my shrimp?


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## Lee iley

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Cherry Shrimp  yes or at least the little ones.
> Amano no.
> It may work if cherries have hiding spots.
> 
> 
> Regards Konsa


 I was hoping they would leave my cherrys alone. I have a really good colony of shrimp going now. Any ways around this I have lots of moss and hiding spots were all my small cherrys hide out.


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## Tommy

Lee iley said:


> Thank you for that. I have managed to get a pic of the other one aswel. Will they eat my shrimp?



Don't know about the shrimp, and I cant identify that ram mate sorry.


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## oscarlloydjohn

Basically anything that can fit a shrimp in its mouth will eat them. Amanos and adult cherries will probably be ok. Some juveniles will probably get eaten if they are out in the open.


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## Lee iley

Here a few pics of my tank to see if there are enough hiding spaces for my baby cherrys. I have a load of neons they can fit my baby cheerys in there mouths. But they don't bother with them.


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## Lee iley

Tommy said:


> Don't know about the shrimp, and I cant identify that ram mate sorry.


Thanks Tommy for your help.


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## sparkyweasel

Yes, that looks like a gold Ram. I wouldn't like to say whether it was German or Far Eastern bred from looking at it 
Whether they bother your  shrimps may depend on their individual personality, cichlids can vary a lot. But with plenty of cover I would guess they will probably be OK.


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## TBRO

My Rams are shrimp killers. Cherry’s for sure will die. Not seen them touch Amanos. My tank has a lot of moss/cover but they hunt methodically. 




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## Lee iley

I'm 


TBRO said:


> My Rams are shrimp killers. Cherry’s for sure will die. Not seen them touch Amanos. My tank has a lot of moss/cover but they hunt methodically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Keeping a close eye on them they don't seem to be bothering the bigger cherrys. But they are trying to have a pop at my baby ones.


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## TBRO

That’s how they get the taste for blood! I have two female Rams and a pair of Nanocarra annomala and they hunt like a pack. Flushing out shrimp from dense plants. I’m trying to rescue those I can to my new tank. 


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## Lee iley

TBRO said:


> That’s how they get the taste for blood! I have two female Rams and a pair of Nanocarra annomala and they hunt like a pack. Flushing out shrimp from dense plants. I’m trying to rescue those I can to my new tank.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will they wipe my cherry colony out I have about 150 of them at the min. Gutted now really because I love the rams, but also love my shrimp. Will these rams pair up and mate.


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## Konsa

Hi
Perfect excuse to setup a shrimp nano as soon as possible 
Rams are very prolific breeders  when young and slow down as they age.If U have male and female U will most likely get some spawning going.
Regards Konsa


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## PAYN3Y

I have a mature golden ram. Looks very similar. 

If you have a good number of shrimp it’s likely they will still outbread to rate at which they get eaten.  

My two rams and apistos like the have a pop at the smaller cherries, especially if out in the open. They don’t usually hassle the larger ones - although this fella didn’t have a good time.


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## Lee iley

PAYN3Y said:


> I have a mature golden ram. Looks very similar.
> 
> If you have a good number of shrimp it’s likely they will still outbread to rate at which they get eaten.
> 
> My two rams and apistos like the have a pop at the smaller cherries, especially if out in the open. They don’t usually hassle the larger ones - although this fella didn’t have a good time.



Poor little guy. They had a right go at him. Is that how large the rams grow to full adulthood?


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## Lee iley

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Perfect excuse to setup a shrimp nano as soon as possible
> Rams are very prolific breeders  when young and slow down as they age.If U have male and female U will most likely get some spawning going.
> Regards Konsa


I was thinking of a shrimp only tank. A little nano type one. Do my rams look female and male or are they both the same sex?


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## Konsa

Hi 
tbh can't tell as they are pretty washed out on the pics.Give them time to settle and when they colour up take few more pics.
Regards Konsa


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## PAYN3Y

Lee iley said:


> Poor little guy. They had a right go at him. Is that how large the rams grow to full adulthood?



I’m no expert but I think they’re pretty much full size now. I noticed some in the local fish shop a few weeks ago and they were tiny.


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## TBRO

I had a huge number of cherries. My tank is fairly jungle like:






Pretty sure these guys are responsible for their disappearance:









I could still find shrimp in there but would need to turn over rocks etc. 

Re the sex of your fish. We need some close ups of the fins. They are probably a bit young to tell 100% at the moment 


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## Lee iley

TBRO said:


> I had a huge number of cherries. My tank is fairly jungle like:
> 
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> 
> Pretty sure these guys are responsible for their disappearance:
> 
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> I could still find shrimp in there but would need to turn over rocks etc.
> 
> Re the sex of your fish. We need some close ups of the fins. They are probably a bit young to tell 100% at the moment
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nice looking tank is that. How many rams have you got? I will get another little tank for cherrys only I think. I will get a few close up pics thanks for the replys guys.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

General rule of thumb with nature, try everything once. If it fits in an animals mouth, gains some nutritional value from it, doesn't taste awful or poisons it or the energy used doesn't out weigh the energy spent catching it then it becomes dinner. Problem is reproduction takes time feeding doesn't, as fast as shrimp like to breed you would struggle to get something breeding faster than something feeding. With a tank full of small fish the young shrimp only need to survive  get to a size where a small fish can't tackle it, some will and some won't. As you add bigger fish the survival rate keeps on diminishing until you hit a point where there are fewer survivors and less breeding and the shrimps chances of survival go down and down and the ones that are big enough to survive the fish drops through natural deaths until the colony collapses.

For best chance the colony needs to be massive to start with and the fish added later. Adding shrimp to a tank of fish immediately tells them food because usually when the fish see you adding something to the tank it is food, for them to see something bright coloured added by you to the tank they immediately make the food connection especially when it's moving. That's why breeders use live food to get young fry eating. The fact it's moving and fits in its mouth is a trigger to chase it down.

You could keep the fish well fed as well. Fish not being hungry makes it less worth while chasing a shrimp down. Rams and Tetras though are quite active feeders, after a good feed you could go back an hour later and they will take food again. Maybe because they come from warmer water and their metabolism runs quicker so they eat little and often, not sure.

Having said all that some fish seem to acquire the taste, probably because they tried once and it paid off then there's no turning back. I've had Betta that would spend all of the day hunting down shrimp but then again I've seen people with shrimp and Betta together and the Betta are totally uninterested. They just check them out then leave them be.


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## Lee iley

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> General rule of thumb with nature, try everything once. If it fits in an animals mouth, gains some nutritional value from it, doesn't taste awful or poisons it or the energy used doesn't out weigh the energy spent catching it then it becomes dinner. Problem is reproduction takes time feeding doesn't, as fast as shrimp like to breed you would struggle to get something breeding faster than something feeding. With a tank full of small fish the young shrimp only need to survive  get to a size where a small fish can't tackle it, some will and some won't. As you add bigger fish the survival rate keeps on diminishing until you hit a point where there are fewer survivors and less breeding and the shrimps chances of survival go down and down and the ones that are big enough to survive the fish drops through natural deaths until the colony collapses.
> 
> For best chance the colony needs to be massive to start with and the fish added later. Adding shrimp to a tank of fish immediately tells them food because usually when the fish see you adding something to the tank it is food, for them to see something bright coloured added by you to the tank they immediately make the food connection especially when it's moving. That's why breeders use live food to get young fry eating. The fact it's moving and fits in its mouth is a trigger to chase it down.
> 
> You could keep the fish well fed as well. Fish not being hungry makes it less worth while chasing a shrimp down. Rams and Tetras though are quite active feeders, after a good feed you could go back an hour later and they will take food again. Maybe because they come from warmer water and their metabolism runs quicker so they eat little and often, not sure.
> 
> Having said all that some fish seem to acquire the taste, probably because they tried once and it paid off then there's no turning back. I've had Betta that would spend all of the day hunting down shrimp but then again I've seen people with shrimp and Betta together and the Betta are totally uninterested. They just check them out then leave them be.


Thanks for the reply, I have about 150 cherrys already and added the 2 rams yesterday. I have just found a adult cherry dead. Doesn't look like it has been eaten at. Could this be down to the rams. Would you say a 150 strong colony will survive against the 2 rams.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Could go either way that mate. With 150 all you can do is look for the colony getting less and less visible and if you have to setup a small shrimp tank if it's not looking good. The dead shrimp could be just one of them things. In a colony 150 strong sooner or later an adult is going to pop its clogs at some point. I have maybe 50 or so in a 50ltr with some corys and endlers which aren't known for attacking fully grown shrimp and I see a dead one floating past this morning. Couldn't fish it out because it got stuck down in some weeds so the other shrimp will just feast on it. 

In my case with the bettas they seemed to hunt them more for fun than food. If they managed to catched one they seemed to kill it but not eat it. I would imagine shrimp are a bit of a PITA for a fish to eat, it has go to get the shell off it at some point to make it a tasty morsel or get anything worth eating. Maybe if a fish kills one but then can't really get anything out of it nutritionally they may learn its's not worth the hassle. Depends how much the fish just loves hunting and chasing I would say but if they are well fed it keeps them interested in other things that are worth chasing.


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## Lee iley

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Could go either way that mate. With 150 all you can do is look for the colony getting less and less visible and if you have to setup a small shrimp tank if it's not looking good. The dead shrimp could be just one of them things. In a colony 150 strong sooner or later an adult is going to pop its clogs at some point. I have maybe 50 or so in a 50ltr with some corys and endlers which aren't known for attacking fully grown shrimp and I see a dead one floating past this morning. Couldn't fish it out because it got stuck down in some weeds so the other shrimp will just feast on it.
> 
> In my case with the bettas they seemed to hunt them more for fun than food. If they managed to catched one they seemed to kill it but not eat it. I would imagine shrimp are a bit of a PITA for a fish to eat, it has go to get the shell off it at some point to make it a tasty morsel or get anything worth eating. Maybe if a fish kills one but then can't really get anything out of it nutritionally they may learn its's not worth the hassle. Depends how much the fish just loves hunting and chasing I would say but if they are well fed it keeps them interested in other things that are worth chasing.


 I will keep an eye on the colony over the next couple of weeks, then if I need to will buy a 30 litre or so tank and have a shrimp only tank.


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## Lee iley

Just an update took the rams bk. I was loosing to many shrimp. Instead got 20 black neon tetras. Just found one of the with half a shrimp in its mouth. Would this shrimp already of been dead? Or do these guys hunt down shrimp? I already have a massive shoal of cardinal and blue neon tetras and they are fine with my shrimp. Any help would be great thanks guys.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

The Rams probably killed it mate. 

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## Konsa

Lee iley said:


> Just an update took the rams bk. I was loosing to many shrimp. Instead got 20 black neon tetras. Just found one of the with half a shrimp in its mouth. Would this shrimp already of been dead? Or do these guys hunt down shrimp? I already have a massive shoal of cardinal and blue neon tetras and they are fine with my shrimp. Any help would be great thanks guys.



Hi
 anything  that is being chased (injured) and darting arround will send signals to all your fish that dinner is served.It will surprise me greatly if the rest of your fish stay put.Hurry up with the new tank as U will need to get the cycling going before moving the shrimps in
Regards Konsa


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## Lee iley

Konsa said:


> Hi
> anything  that is being chased (injured) and darting arround will send signals to all your fish that dinner is served.It will surprise me greatly if the rest of your fish stay put.Hurry up with the new tank as U will need to get the cycling going before moving the shrimps in
> Regards Konsa


So basically any type of fish will have a pop at the cherrys?


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## MirandaB

You're usually safe with otos and shrimp  tbh I've found most of my fish in my community tank go for the shrimp when they're first introduced to the tank (the fish that is) and then slowly lose interest over time.
I probably feed them too well and they've become lazy


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## Konsa

Hi 
+1 for the ottos.absolutely shrimp safe.
It depends on your fish personality too.Usually if it can fit in a fish mouth  is considered food.U may have some shrimps left but they  will be hiding more and U will barely notice them probably.
I have SAP puffers living happily with amano shrimp while their favourite food is live (frozen) mysis shrimp. Crazy things happen all the time.
Regards Konsa


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## Lee iley

MirandaB said:


> You're usually safe with otos and shrimp  tbh I've found most of my fish in my community tank go for the shrimp when they're first introduced to the tank (the fish that is) and then slowly lose interest over time.
> I probably feed them too well and they've become lazy


So once my black neons get used to the shrimp. They won't go for them. I havnt seen them go for them as of yet. I'm hoping the shrimp one of them had in its mouth was already dead from the rams. None of my blue neons or cardinal tetras go for my shrimp they are fine with them.


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## Konsa

Hi
Keep monitoring the tank.Usually tetras U have are ok with cherries.Your RAMs may not be homicidal maniacs and may leave them alone in time too.
Its more about sudden and erratic shrimp movements that may provoke feeding instinct kicking in from your other fish.
The video PAYN3Y posted illustrated  it very well.
Usually with strong established colony few losses will not make a dent.
Regards Konsa


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## Lee iley

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Keep monitoring the tank.Usually tetras U have are ok with cherries.Your RAMs may not be homicidal maniacs and may leave them alone in time too.
> Its more about sudden and erratic shrimp movements that may provoke feeding instinct kicking in from your other fish.
> The video PAYN3Y posted illustrated  it very well.
> Usually with strong established colony few losses will not make a dent.
> Regards Konsa


Thanks konsa, I have took the rams bk. So only have tetras now. Why do the shrimp move like that?


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## Konsa

Hi 
because they are hunted,stressed and trying to escape.They normaly don't.Males do get a little more active during hormone frenzy but that's different .Im glad U took tha Rams back.It was a wise choice 
Regards Konsa


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Konsa said:


> Its more about sudden and erratic shrimp movements that may provoke feeding instinct kicking in from your other fish.



Even with my endlers sometimes if they investigate a small sized shrimp the shrimp will have a little panic attack and dart about in different directions unsure whether the endler is going to have a go or not. Instinct kicks in and the endler will dart about about trying to catch it. Only lasts a second then they both realise it's not happening and wander off to do something else.


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## TBRO

The smart shrimp are now living in about 1 cm of water on top the big Bolbitis. Safe from the preds! 


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## Chris Tinker

Lee iley said:


> Here a few pics of my tank to see if there are enough hiding spaces for my baby cherrys. I have a load of neons they can fit my baby cheerys in there mouths. But they don't bother with them.




loving the 3rd photo... could you take some more photos? its how i am thinking of setting my 4ft up like.

where did you get the rocks and stones? 

beautiful tank


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## Chris Tinker

o no... realised after reading all of this thread the rams went ☹


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## Chris Tinker

PAYN3Y said:


> I have a mature golden ram. Looks very similar.
> 
> If you have a good number of shrimp it’s likely they will still outbread to rate at which they get eaten.
> 
> My two rams and apistos like the have a pop at the smaller cherries, especially if out in the open. They don’t usually hassle the larger ones - although this fella didn’t have a good time.





whats that fish!!! not the blue ram.. its stunning


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## alto

Looks to be an Apistogramma “Fire Red” morph - but this particular fish seems very slender for A agassizi 

A 2006 Thread from Apistogramm.com 
(there are several more, Mike Wise is likely fairly close in his suggested origin  ... often the earlier Threads have excellent information)

https://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/ap-agassizi-fire-red.6832/


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