# New 60cm Scape



## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

With dismal weather, and needing to get 2 boys out of the house, it seemed like a good excuse to go on the hunt for some hardscaping materials for my 60cm 55L tank.

We came back with the following


















I'd appreciate any comments or thoughts on this.

Thanks

Stuart


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

No.1 - No
No.2 - Better
No.3 - Great - would look amazing with loads of moss, ferns and anubias attatched and crypts around it


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

Thanks.

Yeah no1 have to agree it's all to symmetrical.

no3 looks good. Just need to decide on substrate, I'd like something black / dark, maybe Amazonia soil from ADA.

The only thing I want from a plant point of view is a HC carpet for part of the tank.


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## Steve Smith (16 Nov 2008)

I like the arch in the wood that No. 3 has.  The left piece looks a little bit too clost the the glass though?


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

That piece in no.2 is amazing.


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

A slight variation on no 3.





Juggling the Sunday roast so not the best pictures with the mobile phone cam.


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## Steve Smith (16 Nov 2008)

It looks good, but I'm not sure.  It's lost the arch from No.3 which looked really cool


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

I'm 90% that this dosn't work, or perhaps I missing something ?





Of course it's also more difficult with no substrate in to make the wood stand away from the glass.


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

I think that one works quite well actualy, in a weird way. But it does.


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## aaronnorth (16 Nov 2008)

try turning them upside down, you will habe the horrible end mid level but you could always cover it up with some moss


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

Two more....... I'll try some upside down ones soon. Again, resting against the front glass, with substrate they'll be about a 1.5" gap, between the sticky ends and front glass.



 



Is Ada Amazonia Soil a good choice ? Do I need anything else in the substrate ?


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

I prefer no. 2 of the above.

Yep, ADA Aquasoil is the best out there. They do recommend that you use Power Sand also, but it's been proven that it doesn't mater - plus it's very expensive.


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

Here you go Aron, something like this ?


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## webworm (16 Nov 2008)

Ok, this is getting addictive. 

I'm quite liking this one, apologies for the poor lighting, and lack of sharp focus.


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## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

^ That one, my friend. Is the one.


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## webworm (17 Nov 2008)

Thanks for all the input thus far, having left the wood overnight, it still looks pretty good this morning, so I'm sticking with it.

Just need to source some substrate, sort out the filter fittings and we're off. I'd like initially to plant up with HC, can someone give some guidance on a good starting planting density ?


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## Thomas McMillan (17 Nov 2008)

I would go for ADA definately for the substrate - you would regret it otherwise.

The best advice is to start off straight away with a high plant density. If you want to start with HC, make sure you have plenty of fast growers (e.g. stems like Rotala, Hygrophila etc).


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## webworm (17 Nov 2008)

And here begins the second lesson.

Why the need for fast growing stem plants ?

Thanks

Stuart


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## Garuf (17 Nov 2008)

To act as nutrient sponges. Alternatively you could do a dry start up which is a lot less hassle. Takes patience though.


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## Mark Evans (17 Nov 2008)

webworm said:
			
		

> Why the need for fast growing stem plants ?



apparently it soaks up excess nutrients. but if you run the whole system correctly, you can get away without using them. its a balance between lights nutrients and co2. the ADA AS is a smart move IMO.

great to see you've got enthusiasm


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## vauxhallmark (17 Nov 2008)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I prefer no. 2 of the above.
> 
> Yep, ADA Aquasoil is the best out there. They do recommend that you use Power Sand also, but it's been proven that it doesn't mater - plus it's very expensive.



Ooh, proof! Could you post a link to the research?

Cheers,

M


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## webworm (17 Nov 2008)

I'm going to try and draw up a planting plan, I'll be ordering substrate tomorrow so it's all systems go.

A few more images.... With a slight tweak to the intertwining of the wood, Time to look at getting better pictures.


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## Thomas McMillan (17 Nov 2008)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> Ooh, proof! Could you post a link to the research?



There's not necessarily research as such, but just a lot of people have found that using Power Sand aswell isn't as beneficial as it's made out to be. The little benefit doesn't outweigh the price.

I think this scape would look even more amazing with a sand foreground... 

PS - I want your wood


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## webworm (21 Nov 2008)

No real progress, my filter spare parts have arrived. I"m thinking about stocking for the tank, which wasn't helped by a trip to lfs on the way home from work yesterday, then had some very nice Dwarf Puffers..... 

A couple of quesitons.

1 - Is there a reduction in stocking densities for planted tanks from the norm ?
2 - How much substrate do I need for a 60cm x 30cm tank ? 
3 - Will I regret going with something like eco-complete instead of ADA Amazonia ?

Hopefully I'll have a planting plan drawn up over the weekend to share with you all.


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## aaronnorth (21 Nov 2008)

1) we usually understock so that the plants are the main focal point, and less nutrients from their waste is added.
2) have a minimum depth of 1" then adding more towards the back. 

(length x width x depth) / 1000 = litres.

if you go with a substrate which tells you the litre of the bag (eg 9l), then simply add it onto the end of the calculation (highlighted in bold)

(length x width x depth) / 1000 / *9l * = bags needed


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## webworm (22 Nov 2008)

So whilst I wait for the delivery of some nice subs. Heres some more woodscape layouts.....


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## Calum (23 Nov 2008)

nice wood you got there, i like the last photo most though, is it red moore?


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## Goodygumdrops (23 Nov 2008)

webworm said:
			
		

> So whilst I wait for the delivery of some nice subs. Heres some more woodscape layouts.....



no2


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## webworm (26 Nov 2008)

Ok.

Here's my current plan.

Substrate : ADA Amazonia Aqua Soil
Hardscape:  Something not too far from.




Not sure on a profile for the substrate, but I'm leaning toward the high ground being around the base of the wood. I'm open to some guidance on this.

Planting: HC to fill the foreground
              Staurogyne sp.  Having seen Dan's photos' I've got to give this a go, going with this beneath and behind the overhanging branch.
              Pogostemon Helferi, round the right hand side base, and in the mid ground beneath the overhanging branch.
              Blyxa japonica, as a background (this is my one uncertainty).
              Ricca on the wood itself.

Thats the plan, well the plan right now.


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## Goodygumdrops (26 Nov 2008)

Nice wood,someone likes Steiff too,I'll need to suck up.


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## Thomas McMillan (26 Nov 2008)

Sounds good.

For the substrate, it's a good idea to have it sloped up towards the base of the wood. It's also good to have it sloped up towards the back of the tank, from say 2" at the front to about 5" at the back to create more depth.


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## webworm (2 Dec 2008)

Anyone able to give some guidance on the amount of plants required ? 

I'm currently thinking 3 pots of HC, and 2 of each of the remaining apart from the Ricca, going with a single clump of this in the start ?

Cheers

Stuart


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## webworm (7 Dec 2008)

No real progress.

I'm waiting on the arrival of substrate and plants, hopefully they'll be here on Tuesday.

I've decided to investigate my local water quality, see below is RO water an option I should be considering ?

Hardness Level  	Moderately Hard  	No Standard Applies
Hardness Clark 	11.9 	No Standard Applies 	Degrees Clark
Hardness French 	17 	No Standard Applies 	French Degrees
Hardness German 	9.6 	No Standard Applies 	German Degrees
Aluminium 	47.5 	200 	Î¼gAl/l
Chloride 	48.3 	250 	mgCl/l
Chlorine 	0.42 	No Standard Applies 	mg/l
Coliform bacteria 	0 	0 	no./100ml
Colour 	1.27 	20 	mg/l Pt/Co
Conductivity 	427.3 	2500 	Î¼S/cm at 20Â°C
E.coli bacteria 	0 	0 	no./100ml
Fluoride 	0.58 	1.5 	mgF/l
Iron 	8 	200 	Î¼gFe/l
Manganese 	2.7 	50 	Î¼gMn/l
Nitrate 	24.3 	50 	mgNO3/l
Odour 	0 	3 at 25Â°C 	Dilution Number
Pesticides 	0 	0.5 	Î¼g/l
pH 	7.23 	6.5 - 10.0 	pH Value
Sodium 	25.8 	200 	mgNa/l
Taste 	0 	3 at 25Â°C 	Dilution Number
Plumbing Metals
Copper 	0.02 	2.0 	mgCu/l
Lead 	2.4 	25 	Î¼gPb/l
Nickel 	1.3 	20 	Î¼gNi/l


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## jay (7 Dec 2008)

I really wouldn't ever bother with RO water in a high tech planted tank. Just normal, good old tap water is fine.


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## beeky (9 Dec 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> 1) we usually understock so that the plants are the main focal point, and less nutrients from their waste is added.
> 2) have a minimum depth of 1" then adding more towards the back.
> 
> (length x width x depth) / 1000 = litres.
> ...



Assuming you mean "depth" to be the required depth of the substrate, rather than the depth of the tank?

i.e. (60cm x 30cm x 5cm substrate) / 1000 / 9l = 1 bag

BTW, any new pics?


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## aaronnorth (10 Dec 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, thanks for pointing it out.


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## webworm (12 Dec 2008)

Hopefully some new pictures this weekend. Not much progress, as always, having ordered substrate and some plants, work and family have sucked all my spare time.


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## webworm (17 Dec 2008)

Ok, update time. Things havn't gone as well as I'd have hoped. I ended up having to leave my plants with my parents in their tank, unfortionatly most of my 2 pots of HC didn't survive.

I'm hoping to pickup some plants tomorrow to add to the current setup, heres a 'phonecam' picture of the tank it's just had a 50% water change.





More pictures here http://picasaweb.google.com/aqua.webworm/Aquascaping#


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## aaronnorth (19 Dec 2008)

i would be worried about algae with such a low amount of plant mass, and ammonia leaching from the aquasoil.
nice start though.


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## webworm (21 Dec 2008)

Made a visit to Dobbies on the way home from work on Thus. 

I've added the following to the tank

5 pots Hygrophila corymbosa
3 post Pogostemon helferi
6 bunches Vallisneria americana ''mini twister''









I'm going to hold off adding any new HC till after xmas.


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## Mark Evans (21 Dec 2008)

thats more like it. glosso may look nice in there.there maybe too much of a defining line between the hc and background flora. just a thought

 hc seems to be used all the time now.


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## Thomas McMillan (21 Dec 2008)

Wow... this has turned out better than I imagined! Well done, I really like it. Like Mark said, it might be a good idea to get a few more mid-ground plants in there, especially on the left side because there isn't the wood there the break up the mid-ground.


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## webworm (22 Dec 2008)

Thanks for the positive comments thus far.

Not sure on the best longterm location of the Hygro, still keen to get a carpet of HC, although, I'm starting to quite like the p.helferi, maybe a mixed forground of this on HC ?


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## Thomas McMillan (22 Dec 2008)

^ Could do, but have the P. Helferi nearer the mid-ground.


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## Themuleous (23 Dec 2008)

Thats some quality wood!

Sam


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## webworm (30 Dec 2008)

No new planting, theres a few bit's of algae around, but not as much as I was expecting.
My 4 Oto's seem to have gone into hiding, or they've escaped and are drying out nicely on the carpet.

Hopefully I'll be adding some LampEyes in the next couple of days.

 Heres some more photos'


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## Thomas McMillan (30 Dec 2008)

This tank is looking great! You obviously did your research.

What plants do you have in there?


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## webworm (30 Dec 2008)

I have to thank everyone here, you've been pretty much my research.

Plants are

5 pots Hygrophila corymbosa
3 post Pogostemon helferi
6 bunches Vallisneria americana ''mini twister''

Along with a few Staurogyne sp from 'SuperMan'

Still want to progress to a carpet of HC, and some more midground plants.


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## webworm (1 Jan 2009)

And with the new year comes a new picture.....

Took a trip to our local MA in Newport. Came back with 5 lampeyes as planned, but also with 4 Celestial Pearl Danio.


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## Thomas McMillan (1 Jan 2009)

You should have got some more CPD's - they are shoaling fish.


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## webworm (1 Jan 2009)

I would have got more, but they were the last 4 in the shop, but negotiation got the price down to Â£2 per fish, which was quite good. I fully intend to get some more in the coming weeks.


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## Superman (2 Jan 2009)

webworm said:
			
		

> I would have got more, but they were the last 4 in the shop, but negotiation got the price down to Â£2 per fish, which was quite good. I fully intend to get some more in the coming weeks.


Give me a while and you might be able to get some CPDs from me. They're fab.


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## webworm (2 Jan 2009)

Sounds intriguing, you breading them ?


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## Superman (2 Jan 2009)

webworm said:
			
		

> Sounds intriguing, you breading them ?


Yes, ordered all the kit today to setup my nano as a breeding tank. Fingers crossed it'll work as apparently, from reading the internet, they're one of the easiest to breed. Plus I need to recoup some of the cost of the ones I've got. In my haste to buy them, I think I paid over the odds.


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## webworm (3 Jan 2009)

Hope you have some success.  Be interested to see how you get on, do you have more details on your nano setup ?

Stuart


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## Superman (3 Jan 2009)

Its going to be pretty basic...

- Sponge air driven filter
- Java Moss along the bottom 
- Arcpod 11W light
- Heater (if required)

I'm going to do a breeding thread in the fish bit on here, so keep an eye out for that when it starts.


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## spyder (6 Apr 2012)

Love the mini twister vallis, changed the whole look once that went in.


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## pariahrob (11 Apr 2012)

Great thread and what a transformation from bare to planted. I agree the midground to background could maybe have a little work but thats all about the individual and I'm sure in nature you would come up against cliffs of foliage.

Nice work. I've never liked wood in tanks til I saw this. Thanks for showing so many layout photos at the start.


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## webworm (11 Apr 2012)

Tank currently is suffering from a little neglect. 

However arrival of new plants soon, and I'll be replanting / rescaping.


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## webworm (15 Apr 2012)

Ok. After some purchases from LFS and from the 'For Sale' section, here's the current re-scape, need a bit more glass cleaning, and some sediment removal from the plant leaves having stirred everything up.

Appologies for the camera phone quality.









I'll try and get some better pics tomorrow.


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## Aqua sobriquet (16 Apr 2012)

Out of interest, can the silver trims on the corners of the tank be removed or would it compromise the integrity of the tank?


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## webworm (16 Apr 2012)

Thats an interesting question. I'd think on the curved panel it shouldn't be an issue.


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## webworm (17 Apr 2012)

A couple more pics, still not much better than the phone camera. More practice required.


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## webworm (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: New 60cm Scape [Upgrade ?]*

I've got a 60cm T5 fixture currently residing in the garage, details http://bio-pur.de/bright.htm , currently with 4x24w T5 10000K tubes in. Never used. I was considering putting this onto my ~80L 60cm scape.

However, having seen Ian's recent LED posting http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=20422&start=120 , I'm now wondering if I should sell the T5 unit, and invest in LED technology. The other option open to me is to go down the DIY LED route.

Anyone got any thoughts, or suggestions ?


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## Ian Holdich (29 Apr 2012)

hey mate, i didn't take the decision 'lightly' to shell out for a LED system. Just remember that if you get Led's you cannot change the K rating, as you can with the bulbs. I just saw that you have 10000k bulbs, that must look a little marine like. I love my new unit and can say that i won't be going back to tubes...also be aware of the cheaper units from china aren't very good.

your tanks looking nice and healthy too.


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## webworm (29 Apr 2012)

Thanks.

I'm not using the 10K Kelvin fitting. I think if I did I would be swapping the tubes out.
I would give some serious consideration to DIY LED. 

Do you have details of the LED fittings you have, including the bracket ?


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## Ian Holdich (29 Apr 2012)

they are here...

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquar ... -twin.html

and then you'll need this...

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquar ... acket.html

and some of this...

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquar ... 490mm.html

The DIY would be an option if you can do that sort of stuff, it would be cheaper as well.


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## webworm (8 May 2012)

*Re: New 60cm Scape [New Pictures]*

Here's how things are currently looking, glass needs a clean.


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