# Understanding new ember tetras behavior



## Tjoste (6 Mar 2022)

Hi,

I bought 11 ember tetras to my 60p 3 days ago and since then I have found their behavior abit odd.

Sometimes they are hiding in back corner of the tank, near the outlet, close to the bottom. When they do this they are not very interested in food. 1-2 maybe take a swim for the falling pellet.
The first few hours when light and co2 goes on they swim in the front of the tank, against the strong current next to the diffusor. They also swim up and down like crazy, looking either like they have the time of their lives, or are desperate to get out.
At night the usually prefer the stiller water close to the outlet, but they are more active in this area, interested in food as well.

Are they just acclimating still or maybe shy?
What I dont understand is how they can be active, swimming around at start of light period, then look like they hate their lives a few hours later. 
Drop checker is green and I guess they would go to the surface if they had problem with too high co2?
Water parameter show 0 nh4 and no2

No other fish, just 10 small amanos and 10 neocaridina


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## hypnogogia (6 Mar 2022)

Videos are not playing.


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## tam (6 Mar 2022)

If you are just seeing that behaviour at the point CO2 would be highest then I'd be tempted to skip a day and see if that changes the behaviour - if it does you know it is the reason and can adjust it - maybe start a little lower and build up over time to help them adjust.


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## Tjoste (6 Mar 2022)




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## Tjoste (6 Mar 2022)

New video links above.
It looks like a maelstrom in the video, but its just the corner the lily pipe is hitting. Rest of the aquarium is not so crazy


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## MichaelJ (6 Mar 2022)

Tjoste said:


> Are they just acclimating still or maybe shy?


Hi @Tjoste  The only video that plays on my end plays sideways     ... anyways, Embers can be quite shy especially when being kept in tanks without more outgoing tank-mates.  if they have only been in the tank for 3 days I suspect they may still be acclimating.  The tank where I keep Embers (there are 10) also hosts Cardinals and Black Neon tetras and lots of shrimps - the Embers are actually the most outgoing in that particular tank..

And Welcome to UKAPS! 

Cheers,
Michael


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## JacksonL (6 Mar 2022)

I had similar behaviour from my embers when I had 10 of them. added another 8 and now they are never shy and roam the tank all day. Being a smaller fish I believe safety in numbers is a strong instinct, you may need to find the tipping point where the school is big enough for them to feel safe.


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## Tjoste (7 Mar 2022)

tam said:


> If you are just seeing that behaviour at the point CO2 would be highest then I'd be tempted to skip a day and see if that changes the behaviour - if it does you know it is the reason and can adjust it - maybe start a little lower and build up over time to help them adjust.


Thank you! I will try this today and tomorrow, see if I notice anything different.



MichaelJ said:


> Hi @Tjoste  The only video that plays on my end plays sideways     ... anyways, Embers can be quite shy especially when being kept in tanks without more outgoing tank-mates.  if they have only been in the tank for 3 days I suspect they may still be acclimating.  The tank where I keep Embers (there are 10) also hosts Cardinals and Black Neon tetras and lots of shrimps - the Embers are actually the most outgoing in that particular tank..
> 
> And Welcome to UKAPS!
> 
> ...





JacksonL said:


> I had similar behaviour from my embers when I had 10 of them. added another 8 and now they are never shy and roam the tank all day. Being a smaller fish I believe safety in numbers is a strong instinct, you may need to find the tipping point where the school is big enough for them to feel safe.


As I have only a 60p, im not sure what would be the best choice. Do I add 10 more ember tetras, a total of 21. Or do I get like 10 more of something more outgoing.
Doing both might be too much in this small tank? 
I run a big Oase biomaster 600, so the flow and turn over maybe makes room for some more fish?

Thanks again!


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## Wookii (7 Mar 2022)

Tjoste said:


> What I dont understand is how they can be active, swimming around at start of light period, then look like they hate their lives a few hours later.
> Drop checker is green and I guess they would go to the surface if they had problem with too high co2?



That tells me they are struggling to get used to the CO2. Fish hang around the filter inlet because its likely the point of lowest CO2 concentration in the tank, and they don't feel secure enough to go to the surface. Whenever I introduce new fish to a CO2 tank, I always have the CO2 off on their first day in the tank, and then phase the CO2 delivery over 4-6 days. Rather than mess with the needle valve, I adjust the timer so on day 2 the CO2 solenoid switches on and off through out the photo period. I then gradually increase the duration of the 'on' periods and reduce the duration of the 'off' periods each day, until its back to the original 'fully on' schedule.

It's hard to tell from the videos, but do you have much cover for the fish in the tank? A full tank photo might help with any advice.


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## Tjoste (8 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> That tells me they are struggling to get used to the CO2. Fish hang around the filter inlet because its likely the point of lowest CO2 concentration in the tank, and they don't feel secure enough to go to the surface. Whenever I introduce new fish to a CO2 tank, I always have the CO2 off on their first day in the tank, and then phase the CO2 delivery over 4-6 days. Rather than mess with the needle valve, I adjust the timer so on day 2 the CO2 solenoid switches on and off through out the photo period. I then gradually increase the duration of the 'on' periods and reduce the duration of the 'off' periods each day, until its back to the original 'fully on' schedule.
> 
> It's hard to tell from the videos, but do you have much cover for the fish in the tank? A full tank photo might help with any advice.


Thank you! 
Yes this seemed to fix the issue. I had co2 off yesterday and will today as well. The embers seem so much happier, swimming all around the tank. They still go crazy in the strong current in the left corner, and relax in the still water in the right, but they dont lay on the bottom in the corner anymore.
I will start phasing in the co2 over the next days. I have some hair algae that started to grow like crazy with the co2 off


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## Wookii (8 Mar 2022)

That looks like diatoms - you can turn you lights down a bit whilst the CO2 is building back up, which may help, and vacuum it all up with a water change.


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## Tjoste (8 Mar 2022)

I noticed some new behavior in my shrimps as well. 
Out of the 20, I usually could only spot 2-3 out at the same time. Now with co2 off I could count to 10 today. 5 of the amanos were out from their hiding, usually I'm lucky if I can even spot 1.
Im not sure if it's because of the co2 or that I have started to feed the fish, but the whole aquarium looks alot more alive. 

Any experiences with this?


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## MichaelJ (8 Mar 2022)

Tjoste said:


> I noticed some new behavior in my shrimps as well.
> Out of the 20, I usually could only spot 2-3 out at the same time. Now with co2 off I could count to 10 today. 5 of the amanos were out from their hiding, usually I'm lucky if I can even spot 1.
> Im not sure if it's because of the co2 or that I have started to feed the fish, but the whole aquarium looks alot more alive.
> 
> Any experiences with this?


I am not a CO2 user, but the obvious change of behavior you see with the fish and shrimps after your turn off CO2 seems to suggest you're injecting too much or that it is fluctuating when on.

Cheers,
Michael


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## zozo (9 Mar 2022)

Looks like they are fighting the flow... Then turn off the pump and the rest for a while and see what happens. If they ease down and start roaming the tank then adjust the direction of the flow. Quite a few reports to find from people about shy and or hiding Embers in high tech tanks, all because these tanks have an extremely high turnover.

How water flows in a box behaves is hard to predict, but like most fish, they go with the flow and choose the spot they feel most comfortable in. That could be the reason why they might hide in the corner with the least turbulency after getting tired of fighting it elsewhere.

This is also how they are described in databases  also indicating they avoid high flow areas.


> Little information appears to exist but presumably inhabits minor tributaries, backwaters and oxbow lakes rather than main river channels.








						Hyphessobrycon amandae – Ember Tetra — Seriously Fish
					






					www.seriouslyfish.com


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2022)

We also have to bear in mind that Embers are one of the more lazy tetra - I’ve had my shoal for over two years, they’re perfectly used to their environment and completely relaxed, yet they are more than happy to spend all day sitting in precisely the same spot - only willing to expend energy when they know food will shortly be available. Now I think about it, maybe it’s intelligence rather than laziness 🤔😆


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## zozo (9 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> We also have to bear in mind that Embers are one of the more lazy tetra



In my tank, they were always all over the place roaming around playing and sham quarrelling with each other ... 




Always curiously watching the cat come for a drink.




Inspecting everything, floating leaves and roots from surface vegitation...




And experienced them becoming even more lively and cheeky when kept together with Black Neons. Black Neons are very brave fish and family members, they like to school together and the Embers seem to feel safer when accompanied by Black Neons.




I actually found it a very entertaining fish to observe with interesting behaviour. In my tank, they were cheeky enough to try and intimidate an Amano shrimp because it wanted a piece of its food and it kept trying and got a little agitated that it ignored her completely. It was in a High Tech tank but only with very little, about 4x, turnover.


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## Wookii (9 Mar 2022)

zozo said:


> In my tank, they were always all over the place roaming around playing and sham quarrelling with each other ...



Agreed, I’m not suggesting they don’t move, or that they aren’t interesting - mine do interact with one another and fake joust occasionally, and the group will move to different areas of the tank.

However relative to other species of fish though, such as Chili Rasbora that are constantly moving around the tank in packs, or Gouramis that are constantly moving about hunting amongst the plants, or more lively species like Reed Tetra or Emperor tetra, or species like rainbows etc, Embers are very sedate by comparison.

Your video is a perfect example, from about 35 second in your can see that typical behaviour of them spending most of their time just hanging in one place. A lot of tetras seem to do it to be fair, and it makes sense from a survival perspective - why expend energy when you don’t need to.


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## MichaelJ (9 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> Agreed, I’m not suggesting they don’t move, or that they aren’t interesting - mine do interact with one another and fake joust occasionally, and the group will move to different areas of the tank.
> 
> However relative to other species of fish though, such as Chili Rasbora that are constantly moving around the tank in packs, or Gouramis that are constantly moving about hunting amongst the plants, or more lively species like Reed Tetra or Emporer tetra, or species like rainbows etc, Embers are very sedate by comparison.
> 
> Your video is a perfect example, from about 35 second in your can see that typical behaviour of them spending most of their time just hanging in one place. A lot of tetras seem to do it to be fair, and it makes sense from a survival perspective - why expend energy when you don’t need to.



My Embers are all over the place as well just like @zozo's...  I think the key is how they adapt to the particular environment of the tank - and if they have tank mates that makes them feel safe, but even then I do remember posts from hobbyists where the Embers would just hang out in the back of the tank even though they had plenty of outgoing tank-mates.  They do seem to have a reputation of being shy and _economic with their energy expenditure  _

Cheers,
Michael


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## JacksonL (10 Mar 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> My Embers are all over the place as well just like @zozo's...  I think the key is how they adapt to the particular environment of the tank - and if they have tank mates that makes them feel safe, but even then I do remember posts from hobbyists where the Embers would just hang out in the back of the tank even though they had plenty of outgoing tank-mates.  They do seem to have a reputation of being shy and _economic with their energy expenditure  _
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael


Do you have floating plants in your tank?
I have noticed when I am floating stems, or after a carpet trim but before I have skimmed the trimmings, that my embers spend more time in the upper water column. I am thinking of putting in some red root floaters as they definitely seem happier with even a small amount of surface cover.


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## AlecF (10 Mar 2022)

I just got some and they definitely like to choose a far corner to hang out in for periods of time. I have floating plants and they are just in with habrosus.


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## AlecF (10 Mar 2022)

I notice mine are doing a lot of panting. Day 2 in the tank. Parameters are fine. Did a water change to bring the TDS down. Is this just anxiety? They are out swimming, have plenty floaters, and the habrosus are saying hello.


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## zozo (10 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> However relative to other species of fish though,


Sure there are quite some behaviour differences among different fish sp. and some are more active than others. I guess we just have a different interpretation of lazy... If compared with the Pygmaea Cory also featured in the video, now that's what I call a lazy fish. Wake up and search for some food then lay down and belly out for the rest of the day, then in the evening go stretch some fins for a minute then back to laying around doing nothing else but looking cute. Could it be they are named catfish because of that? As my cat does actually the exact same thing now you mention it...

Could be it's because people sometimes call me lazy, but I disagree, I'm just very good at intensively doing nothing but racking my brain don't need arms ad legs for that.


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## MichaelJ (10 Mar 2022)

JacksonL said:


> Do you have floating plants in your tank?



Hi @JacksonL   Yes, I have an abundance of floating plants in the tank that hosts the Embers. Frogbit, Pennyworth and duckweed.



JacksonL said:


> I have noticed when I am floating stems, or after a carpet trim but before I have skimmed the trimmings, that my embers spend more time in the upper water column. I am thinking of putting in some red root floaters as they definitely seem happier with even a small amount of surface cover.



I think most small fishes like to be under a canopy of (floating) plants.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Tjoste (22 Mar 2022)

Quick update 
I added 10 more ember tetras today (total of 21) and already a few hours later they seem to be much less shy.
Now they are schooling, swimming back and forth in the front of the tank


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