# Losing the Battle to Staghorn/Red Algae



## Jon Reid (23 Jan 2020)

Hey guys

Here is my tank. It is a 110 litre tank, with an Oase Biomaster 350 and CO2 in line diffusor. It has been running for about 8 months.




 

Over the past month, I have been losing the battle against what appears to be some form of red algae. It has attached itself to every plant, even the stems:



 



 



 



 



Nothing I've attempted so far has helped - upping the light, reducing the light, upping or reducing flow or CO2. Dosing directly with carbon kills that specific area but it comes back bigger.

Any suggestions will be very welcome.


----------



## Ryan Thang To (23 Jan 2020)

Hello mate

Sorry your having problems. 
Tell me a bit about your tank. Light fert co2 and your pictures are not showing up

Cheers
Ryan


----------



## Jon Reid (24 Jan 2020)

Hey Ryan, sorry the pics didn't load. I had to modify the link a bit. They're up now. The light I'm using is a Fluval Fresh and Plant 500mm, running at about 70% at the moment for 8 hours a day, but with a ramp on and off, so effectively 7 hours at full power.

I'm dosing daily with Easy-Life ProFito as well as Easy Life Easycarbo to try get rid of the algae.

With the exception of the algae, the plants in the tank all look in good shape and are growing quickly


----------



## Keith GH (24 Jan 2020)

Jon

It might help if you supply us with every detail about your tank and it's inhabitants.  With the Water Parameters how was the test done.   
Filter brand and size plus how often is it cleaned also are you using carbon in the filter.
Your tap water parameters. 
Water changes what percentages and how often?
Feeding amount and how often?.
Is the tank getting any natural lighting?
Co2 every thing including the colour.

Some where in the above is the cause of your problem

Keith


----------



## Jon Reid (24 Jan 2020)

Hi Keith

Here are some of the parameters:

Filter: Oase Biomaster Thermo 350. I’ve kept the setup standard but replaced the biological media with Seachem pebbles. The filter is cleaned monthly. The bioload of my fish is quite small so the filter is never dirty.

Water Changes: 50% once a week.

Feeding: twice a day. I use a small pinch of Fluval Bugbites for nano fish as stable and the second feeding is either 1/4 cube of frozen brine shrimp or a pinch of tetra min or a couple of fluval bug bites for cichlids.

Fish: 13 cardinal tetra, 6 Pygmy corydorus, 3 apistagramma, 2 CPD, 3 Ottos, 6 Ammano shrimp.

Parameters: ph 6.8, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates.

The water is hard as I use tap water from London.

The tank gets no direct sunlight, but it is near a window so it picks up indirect light. Oddly, the algae is concentrated on the side furthest from the window.


----------



## dw1305 (24 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Jon Reid said:


> 6 Pygmy corydorus


I'm a <"Pygmy _Corydoras_"> fan as well. 

This is a problem that nearly all of us have had at some point and plant health and growth looks pretty good. 

I don't know how you feel about snails, but Ramshorn snails will control Red algae in the longer term <"by grazing off the biofilm">, but they won't eat the obvious tufts.

The first thing to say is we don't know what causes "outbreaks" of either Red Algae. We have a a couple of fairly extensive threads, <"What exactly causes...">  which would be worth a read (particularly if there is nothing on TV).

We think there may be a relationship between organic waste build up in the filter (particularly for Stagshorn Algae), but we aren't entirely sure. Have a look at <".....Shallow cube..."> 





Jon Reid said:


> I’ve kept the setup standard but replaced the biological media with Seachem pebbles.


Does it still have the fine sponges? Have a look at <"Biomaster 250">, I'm a great fan of easy clean pre-filters, but <"I like a coarser sponge">. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Jon Reid (24 Jan 2020)

Thanks Darrel, I'll look into replacing the fine sponges in the pre-filters. I have actually read that thread before as I occasionally get the problem of the filter sucking in air. I think you are probably on to something regarding organic waste in the filter as one possible contributing factor to the problem is my surface skimmer sucking in food before the fish have had a chance to eat it. 

In terms of removing what is there, I've soaked the plants that can easily be removed in a bucket of water and high dosages of carbon. I've also applied carbon directly to problem areas during a big water change when the plant areas are directly exposed. How would you go about treating more sensitive plants like the crypts?

In terms of the advice on stag horn algae, some advice says to increase the water flow and ensure there is enough CO2. My CO2 indicator is green for about 4 hours of the lighting period. In terms of flow, the problem only exists in areas where there is flow. In areas that are blocked off from flow, there doesn't appear to be a problem. I've experimented by swapping the position of the inlet and outlet and it confirmed my suspicion. The algae disappeared from areas that were previously in flow (in the line of fire from the lilly pipe) whilst it grew in areas that were previously clear.


----------



## Witcher (24 Jan 2020)

Jon Reid said:


> In terms of flow, the problem only exists in areas where there is flow. In areas that are blocked off from flow, there doesn't appear to be a problem.


Hi @Jon Reid , it probably means that your plants in area of higher flow are bombarded with small particles of DOC, detritus etc. and that is what makes nice place to settle for algae.
I also see a lots of curled leaves on the stem plants in your tank -  whenever I see unnaturally curled leaves in my tanks, I look at the levels of Ca, K an Cl (plus Mg in relation to Ca, if you use London tap water you probably have only minimal amounts of Mg and massive amounts of Ca and Cl in the water).


----------



## dw1305 (24 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





dw1305 said:


> We have a a couple of fairly extensive threads, <"What exactly causes..."> which would be worth a read (particularly if there is nothing on TV).


Link corrected (above).

cheers Darrel


----------



## Witcher (24 Jan 2020)

@dw1305 Hey Darrel,

I'm afraid it's not corrected, looks like you've missed colon after "https" and the link is still broken.


----------



## dw1305 (24 Jan 2020)

Hi all





Witcher said:


> @dw1305 Hey Darrel,
> 
> I'm afraid it's not corrected, looks like you've missed colon after "https" and the link is still broken.


@Witcher,  thank you. Let's have another go.

@Zak Rafik: <"What exactly causes BBA: 1.....">
@AndyMcD  <"What exactly causes BBA: 2......">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Witcher (24 Jan 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Let's have another go.


I've quickly glanced through that link and there is quite interesting statement:


----------



## Jon Reid (24 Jan 2020)

Thanks for the advice Witcher. Do you have any suggestions for how to correct this? Would it just mean dosing with more magnesium?


----------



## rebel (24 Jan 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I'm a <"Pygmy _Corydoras_"> fan as well.
> 
> This is a problem that nearly all of us have had at some point and plant health and growth looks pretty good.
> 
> ...


I agree with these sentiments. These outbreaks are essentially an unknown cause or the cause appears to be different for each tank. Change the obvious factors one by one if you are interested in finding something. Sometimes you won't find a single cause.

Cleaning filter and gravel vac is an obvious starting point and then reduce light by 20%, removing algae aggressively etc etc


----------



## Witcher (24 Jan 2020)

Jon Reid said:


> Would it just mean dosing with more magnesium?


Hey Jon,

I'd definitely add Magnesium in sulphate form (Epsom salts) and Potassium if you don't do it (K either as a sulphate or nitrate, rather avoid chloride) - Profito contains only trace amounts of K and Mg and it seems you need to add more, especially at your water hardness, plus what @rebel  mentioned I'd clean the filter and especially gravel trying to suck out as much debris as you can form that carpet - from my experience I know there are tonnes of debris in the carpets.


----------



## Keith GH (25 Jan 2020)

Jon

Looks like you are getting plenty of help now.  
I have also noticed these.



Jon Reid said:


> Feeding: twice a day. I use a small pinch


I gave up using a pinch as it varied too much I used a very small Mustard spoon plus only once a day morning feeding.



Jon Reid said:


> Water Changes: 50% once a week.


I would do two 30+%  twice weekly.

Keith


----------



## Jon Reid (26 Jan 2020)

Thanks very much for the feedback and suggestions everyone. What I’m going to do is go with one suggestion at a time and monitor for 2 weeks. This way I should be able to isolate the problem. I’ve started with a big clear out of debri, basically a full stripping of the filter and gravel vac. I’ll up my frequency of a filter clean. If this solves the problem, I’ll still try the next suggestion which is adding magnesium. It sounds like it will benefit my plants.

Cheers guys!


----------



## Conort2 (26 Jan 2020)

Jon Reid said:


> Thanks very much for the feedback and suggestions everyone. What I’m going to do is go with one suggestion at a time and monitor for 2 weeks. This way I should be able to isolate the problem. I’ve started with a big clear out of debri, basically a full stripping of the filter and gravel vac. I’ll up my frequency of a filter clean. If this solves the problem, I’ll still try the next suggestion which is adding magnesium. It sounds like it will benefit my plants.
> 
> Cheers guys!


Sounds like a good idea. I’d start upping the magnesium straight away too if I were you. I have London tap and have to dose a load of magnesium to stop issues forming with older leaves. Crypts especially love the extra magnesium. They’re always a good indicator for me if their older leaves start looking bad it means I need to add abit more magnesium. It’s cheap to buy as it’s just Epsom salts, which you can get everywhere.

cheers

Conor


----------



## Dolly Sprint 16v (2 Feb 2020)

> I'm dosing daily with Easy-Life ProFito as well as Easy Life Easycarbo to try get rid of the algae.



I would start to add some Easy Life Nitro as well as the above. No Nitrogen or potassium is been added which it vital to good plant growth.

Paul


----------



## CooKieS (4 Feb 2020)

Following with interest as I'm getting the same algae...


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (9 Feb 2020)

Dolly Sprint 16v said:


> I would start to add some Easy Life Nitro as well as the above. No Nitrogen or potassium is been added which it vital to good plant growth.
> 
> Paul



I have similar issues without complete fertiliser dosing where light exceeded nutrient supply.


----------



## dw1305 (15 Feb 2020)

Hi all,





Jon Reid said:


> Thanks for this feedback. Would you mind clarifying for a beginner - what is -B, -K and -Zn?


They are the letters that indicate the chemical nutrients, B is “boron”, K is “potassium” (Kalium in German) and Zn is “zinc”.

Cheers Darrel


----------



## deeproots (24 Feb 2020)

I've got EXACTLY the same issue.  CO2 dosing looks fine, tank and filter media pretty clean, purigen in filter, dosing all nutrients highly enough dosage, lighting period and intensity ok.  My growth rates on my plants all seem good but this stuff is horrible and my (true) SAE doesnt seem to want to eat it either.   I'm sick of adding H202 and I really didnt want to go back to using flourish excel again but I've bitten the bullet and have started dosing that as well.  Following.


----------



## Jon Reid (10 Apr 2020)

I thought I’d update you all on my progress regarding my algae problem. It is now 95% gone, including bba that had been growing on the rocks and wood.

My initial attempts were brought no success. I think I was overcomplicating matters, trying to overdose with fertiliser using the George Foreman technique. Unfortunately, my water here in London is super hard so the excess fertiliser just went into feeding algae.

I came to this conclusion almost by accident as one week I wasn’t able to fertilise and at the end of the week I noticed the algae had reduced. I applied liquid carbon to the remaining problem areas during a water change and tried not fertilising for another week. I’ve kept this pattern up for a month and the algae is almost all gone.

The experts out there will probably say my plants are not in ideal health, but the tank is free of algae and all the plants are growing well, so for now, I’m happy to be a novice scaper.

Here is the algae free version.


----------



## dw1305 (10 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 





Jon Reid said:


> but the tank is free of algae and all the plants are growing well


I'm pleased things have worked out. That looks really good. Your _Apistogramma_ looks happy and your moss is great.

You will need to add fertilisers again eventually, but you could try the <"Duckweed Index">, which means you only feed the plants when they look like they need some more nutrients.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Jon Reid (10 Apr 2020)

Cheers Darrel. Yeah, I agree. The technique sounds good - add when you see a need. I’m also going to slowly phase out plants that like soft water in favour for hard water plants. I’ve occasionally dosed after a water change and there are plenty of root tabs in the substrate, but I’ll keep an eye out for any plant deficiencies.

On the moss, it grows like wild fire and unfortunately keeps propagating itself in the carpet. I spend hours removing stray moss...


----------

