# AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT



## Andrew Butler (10 Aug 2019)

*EDIT: 'AQUARIUM WITH BUILT IN FILTRATION COMPARTMENT'*

So; I'm unsure quite the title this should have but I think this could be a good idea for me so interested to hear your views, opinions and suggestions.

Here's the idea (I know they already exist but not really to suit the sizes or appearance I require)

The idea is to integrate all the filtration into an aquarium in short.
I would start with an aquarium 1050mm long and then have it partitioned at 150mm so I would essentially be left with a visible aquarium 900 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH)
Some rough sketches to give you an idea of what I mean (hopefully)
-first sketch is the basis of what I would see.
-second sketch is looking from the left hand end weir comb the the right, return to the left.
-third sketch is the very basis of what it would look like inside the sump; exactly how many baffles and layout is something I am deliberating over but this just shows two baffles.

I'm thinking more than 2 baffles might be a good idea but am interested to hear what people think.

The positives I see of this include:
-will skim water surface using the weir
-return neat and tidy
-no need for external canister
-can hide heater away
-able to dose straight into the sump
-can add ATO sensor and pipe into sump
-simple return pump with flow control
-can leave the back and use whichever backing I like including a simple backlight with no messy pipework or cables in the way
-cleaning is just a case of removing media when water is below the weir/return

The negatives I'm not really seeing so much but I'll start a list
-the internal sump section not working as expected which is quite a big one
-arranging baffles to minimise noise
-selecting media to minimise noise
-selecting and sourcing the right sized foams to suit


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## dean (10 Aug 2019)

Most people who keep large fish have filters like this 

They work well with them 
No reason it shouldn’t work in an aquascape 

If you want to make it even easier to maintain then why not put an overflow in it and have drip system on the tank ? 

I would use filter foam so it’s easy to take out and clean if needed 
The course grade 


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## dean (10 Aug 2019)

I would also have another inlet other than just the weir 
What happens if it blocks ? 

The height of the baffles coming up from the base determine the minimum water level that the tank can still work at providing you dont just rely on the weir 
If they only go half way up then you can do a 50% WC and won’t have to turn off pump and heater 

What about having 2 smaller pumps instead of one ? 
This is a safer way to run it plus you can have 2 separate returns to improve flow 


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## zozo (10 Aug 2019)

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/in-tank-planted-sump-filter-its-finaly-happening.48576/


Works a treat..


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## Andrew Butler (11 Aug 2019)

Has anyone suggestions about baffle heights, location, spacing etc? - I'm quite certain the first one needs to be an under.
Although I understand I can only get the volume of water through the weir and filtration as it will allow but can I regulate speed purely with the return pump, if not is there a way.
I'm not getting my head around these parts and although I think I might know the answer to certain parts am interested to have some feedback.


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## zozo (11 Aug 2019)

Actualy all answers you need are already in his thread.. I got my initial idea of making it from the very first video posted in the opening post by The King Off DIY where he gives good explainations.. Also take a good look at that one. I used the excact  same principle with a few little imho improvements such as the sock and the trickle pipe.

The trickle pipe i made to create a kind of a trickle system that does disperse the water over all bio medium so it can trickle down and use its complete volume to the max. Even if no plants are added a trickle tower principle has beter oxygenated filtering capaicity. You can put in what ever media you like best.

And yes to go easy on your self than simply over calculate you overflow with a wet finger and regulate the rest with the pump. As for example i didn't realy calculate, but made the overflow compartiment (first baffle - Your Under) 10x12cm to fit the sock and still have a 2cm overflow gap behind the sock in case it ever cloggs.. The hole feeding it covered with the wier 7 x 3 cm (starting 5cm from the surface).

Thus the overflow compartiment equals square pipe 10x12 cm and its fed by a 800 l/h pump and still could take a lot stronger pump.

When pump is running the water doesn't rise higher than 2cm over the wier, makes it 3 cm from the top rim. There are calculation formulas to give it all a number, but that is rather very (over) complicating theorie. Trail and error is the best way to go with it. And if you decide you made the overflow hole to big, than take a piece of plastic and create a 10mm dam with it from the inside narrowing the hole again. Or other way around, make it bigger with a dremel tool.

Baffle heights are simple, the first bafle need to go from the top and indeed has a gap under. This under gap should have same size as the overflow hole square dimension or bigger. Than the second baffle should be placed far enough from the first to make room for whatever equipment you want to put in. And it need to be closed at the bottom but under the top, preferably the same lenght under the top as the hole you make as overflow. If you want more baffles than you always need to go with Overflow/underflow/overflow/underflow etc. ect. to make it work.





Thus for placing the baffles you always need to respect the overflow level.. See thin red line.. Making one over baffle higher, than this baffle obviously will reflect the overflow level in the tank.


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## Andrew Butler (11 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> can I regulate speed purely with the return pump, if not is there a way


I've had a look through @zozo and not finding the answer about this; I've tried watching them a couple of times, including the first main tank build one.



zozo said:


> The trickle pipe i made to create a kind of a trickle system that does disperse the water over all bio medium so it can trickle down and use its complete volume to the max. Even if no plants are added a trickle tower principle has beter oxygenated filtering capaicity. You can put in what ever media you like best.


With respect; for me to get my simple understanding I'd like to push that to one side for now and keep things very basic for me to understand water levels. 

So plans as it stands are to have an aquarium built out of 10mm glass 1050 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH) then as part of the build have the partition and baffles fitted which would reduce the display to 880mm internally - same as 900mm including 10mm glass either end. This then leaves me with a partition 140mm wide - I've just assumed 10mm glass is used with all calculations for ease here.

As for the partitioned off area which I will now call my sump:
To surmise internal dimensions will be 880 x 140 x 440mm (LxWxH):
First section - 150mm long this will have a weir comb (of some description) and was thinking of putting foam in here starting with course and getting finer as you go down.
First Baffle - gap underneath
This is about as far as I have definitively got with any complete confidence. 

I see there's two potential problems that would cause concern over water levels and my thoughts:
-pump to fail, if this were to happen then the water would carry on flowing over the weir until it levelled out throughout the sump and aquarium (providing the weir allowed that and/or the pump didn't have a back siphon)
-weir/filter to become clogged up, pump would keep on pumping and all water would go from the water that could make its way to the return pump chamber. As already mentioned I'm considering the option of a small low profile intake strainer but unsure how this would affect things.

I've had a little edit of your drawing @zozo and see what you think to the change in height of the baffles, this way the in sump water level will be lowered so it would be down through the foam (note the first baffle very slightly lowered), up and over the second baffle where the water level drops. quite how I'd arrange baffles after that, I'm unsure but would not leave things as they look.

I guess a lot depends on replies back from this now before I respond anymore to your answers.


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## zozo (11 Aug 2019)

The way you'v drawn it could work quite well.

Tho!?





The difference between "Overflow Level" and "Display Tank Water Level" will solely depend on the pumps capacity.. It might be higher it might be lower, but always a tad higher than Overflow level.



And its an in tank sump.. Nothing much can happen.. as you say



> water levels



the intire setup/volume can never contain more water than it does..  So one can never flood the other..

The only consern is keep the sump part filled up.. If you don't eventualy it will run partialy dry..


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## Andrew Butler (11 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> The way you'v drawn it could work quite well


would kick all of the CO2 out with that drop thought wouldn't it?


zozo said:


> The difference between "Overflow Level" and "Display Tank Water Level" will solely depend on the pumps capacity.


So the first baffle needs to be just slightly higher than the bottom of the weir comb/overflow level?
So now with this drop in level is it possible to regulate flow using the return pump alone?


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## zozo (11 Aug 2019)

No, the magic word is *"level"* as water does naturaly.. Thus keep it same level.. How much the water will flow "over" this level depends on the pumps capacity versus the overflow (drain) capacity.

But as long the overflow capacity superseeds the pumps capacity you are always good to go.. 

CO² and sumps? Sorry i can not comment with personal experience.. I would say go the @Edvet route a tad less than normal 24/7..


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## Andrew Butler (11 Aug 2019)

*EDIT*
Hi @zozo 
Although I thought I understood things in the first place seeing suggestion of adjustable flow and designs with lower baffles to the return chamber made me think this was possible and I was missing something.
As I understand it the easy way is to just allow the water to all be at one level throughout the system which does then allow adjustable flow using the pump.
Systems with lower baffles in the return chamber rely on the pump being balanced and pumping exactly the same amount out as enters.

I think the better descriptor for this is integrated filter and leave the word sump well out of things.


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## dean (11 Aug 2019)

I actually think the first baffle should be an over 
Reasons
1. It allows the first chamber to be a settlement chamber especially if you use koi brush in it 
2. The top of the second chamber catches anything that goes past the brush in chamber 1, being at the top it’s easy to access and therefore clean, use something as a mechanical filter in the top of it, filter floss for example, just chuck it away 

So you’ve now filtered out the solids so the rest of the filter receives clean ( no solids) water for the bacteria to do there thing with 


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## zozo (12 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> seeing suggestion of adjustable flow and designs with lower baffles to the return chamber



I have no idea how baffles adjust flow and what to adchieve with that. It's the pump that makes the flow not the baffle. And as long as the overflow can handle the pumps return than there will always be an equal amount of water flowing from filter to tank and back. No baffle can change that. The placement of the baffle functioning as a dam/overflow might chance the level the water rises to but not the flow.

But it indeed seems to be a rather difficult topic to discuss with words and build an imaginary air castle from theory and opinion and see it work before it actualy is build. That's likely the reason why there are so many totaly overcomplicated sump filters with questionable baffles and needles compartiments build and on display. Building sumps or integrated filters that function folowing same priciple stays a trail and error DIY experience.

Personaly i like to keep it simple and straight foreward and sufficient and like to advice accordingly.. Anybody is free to make it more than sufficient, the best of the best with bells and wissles and what not more. I have no opinion on it, the build might be a wonderfull edducative challange you gain from and if it does what it needs to do in the end and thats filter the aqaurium water. Than it does what it needs to do, how and with what is of minor importancy. 

Learning curve is all about acting, start building and experience succeses and failures.. Discussing without ever acting only overcomplicates the matter and prevents you from ever starting the build.

I'm not trying to be rude here. Just honnest. And that's also what i say to friends that want to DIY.. I always say if you want to learn and to know than stop babbling, stop questioning about it and start building.  Don't drive yourself mad with to many questions.


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## Andrew Butler (12 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> I'm not trying to be rude here. Just honnest. And that's also what i say to friends that want to DIY.. I always say if you want to learn and to know than stop babbling, stop questioning about it and start building.  Don't drive yourself mad with to many questions.


I didn't take it as rude, I was just trying to get the science clear in my head which it already was about water level and just reading about adjustable flow and seeing the way others have them configured with a drop in level left me wondering how.
They are 2 separate approaches and I intend to take a simple one with the water level in the filter to stay the same as in the display.
I've yet to put pen to paper about baffle layout although I know under/over is the key to the success with what I plan, now I just need to find the right products to take me forward with regards to this build.
Thanks for your help @zozo


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## Andrew Butler (24 Aug 2019)

So after a bit of looking around, reading back over stuff I've decided to not go for the method @zozo uses as it's simply not something I want to add as nice as it is. 

I've decided to go for an aquarium 1050 x 500 x 450mm (LxWxH) of this 150mm will be given over to the filtration section at one end so in essence I am having an aquarium that resembles one 900mm long but just with a blacked out section at one end which will contain all the filtration, media, heating etc which for me is ideal.

Down to design with the 150 x 500 x 450mm filtration section; straight away it's reduced to 480 x 140 x 440mm (LxWxH) when you have taken the thickness of glass into mind.
I'm now concentrating on the 480 x 440mm (LxH) with regards to positioning the baffles (the width will always be 140mm)

The first section will be fed through a weir comb from the display and then filter down through some foam in increasing densities (Foam supported by some kind of egg crate or drilled acrylic) then under a baffle, back over one which will be at the same height as the bottom of the weir comb? (correct Marcel?) then mainly this chamber will be used for some kind of bio media along with some filter floss at the top - I have the option to add Purigen or activated Carbon too. after this back under then over another piece of glass ( same height again @zozo ) then down into the final chamber which will mainly contain heating and return pump pushing water back out into the aquarium probably using a random flow generator.

What are peoples thoughts on the design? - any ideas or thoughts?
I'm a little unsure on how the 40mm clearance will work but there's enough pipe cleaners around these day - I should find something?!
A little unsure about over baffle heights which hopefully Marcel will put me straight with, also whether there really is need to drop the top of the under baffles that little bit and why.

As I now understand it the only thing restricting flow is things that stand in the way between weir and return pump.


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## JonRivers (26 Aug 2019)

check out the Innovative marine tanks they make stunning All in one tanks like this:

https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/shop/aquatics/aquariums/nuvo-fusion-aquariums


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## zozo (26 Aug 2019)

JonRivers said:


> check out the Innovative marine tanks they make stunning All in one tanks like this:
> 
> https://charterhouse-aquatics.com/shop/aquatics/aquariums/nuvo-fusion-aquariums



They do, in my first diy project on this i used their Fitler sock and Overflow guard. The only minus is, it's an USA product.. The products are a bit over rated expensive and than shipping cost more or less spoil the fun. But regarding desing it works perfectly..


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## JonRivers (26 Aug 2019)

Charterhouse is a UK site zozo, couple of  downsides is the limited stock and the smoked glass back which maybe a turn off for some.


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## zozo (26 Aug 2019)

I did order from
https://www.aquadepot-europe.com/

But still, for a set of filter socks and a plastic filter guard set, shipping exceeded the total expense by factor 3.. 

I ordered anyway because the exclusive design fitted mine perfectly.. But relatively i payed a lot for what i got. More shipping than the product is worth.

USA product via UK  vendor doesn't mean the price is relatively ok. Especialy if its not in sttock. I once wanted to order a Micro aqaurium, especialy designed for microscopic research. It's a USA product and the only EU retailer is  situated in UK. I asked them for this, and the reply was "Not in stock but we can order" + Shipping fee + Tax Fee + Shipping to my country from the UK. End price + 4 times the USA price.


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## JonRivers (26 Aug 2019)

Yeh, i get what you are saying.

Thats the beauty of import tax!


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## Kalum (26 Aug 2019)

I've run this basic set up on multiple aqua one tanks and while I don't have input on the design my experience with them is to stay away from fine media such as filter floss or fine grade foam and to stick with coarse foam and bio media, unless you are cleaning this weekly at most it will clog quickly and drops the water level in the filter compartments


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## zozo (26 Aug 2019)

Kalum said:


> I've run this basic set up on multiple aqua one tanks and while I don't have input on the design my experience with them is to stay away from fine media such as filter floss or fine grade foam and to stick with coarse foam and bio media, unless you are cleaning this weekly at most it will clog quickly and drops the water level in the filter compartments



But that is in a design flaw..  You can easily go both ways.. I presented the link previously in this topic.

I used a 3x7 cm overflow, but in reality the water level rises 2 cm above it, that makes 7x2cm surface. Behind the filter sock i made a gap of 10x1.5cm that is pluged with a coarse sponge as extra overflow behind the filter sock. Actualy in realty it works simmultaniously.

but 7x2 = 14cm² overflow - and 10x1,5=15cm² gap with coarse sponge behind the sock added.

If the sock clogs there is still enough gap to compensate it with a coarse media.

It's comparable with a game played, take socker, its the ball nor the field's fault, but the player kicking it.. 

Professional tank build doesn't necessarily stands for safegaurding..  Especialy when it comes to sump design. Giving feedback is easy, but recieving it as such is a different story. A lot of professionals (People in general) lak the ability of recieving feedback. Its rather recieved as being critical in a negative sense.


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## Andrew Butler (26 Aug 2019)

JonRivers said:


> check out the Innovative marine tanks they make stunning All in one tanks like this


Thanks for the suggestion, I've had a good look around these and a few similar options which are all geared very much for the salty side of things also for the price you pay I believe I can have my own made only more towards my specification. I just need to hope it works out that way!


Kalum said:


> unless you are cleaning this weekly


I'm sure I will clean the more coarse foam weekly and if needs be will go further along the system, trial and error this will be.


zozo said:


> It's comparable with a game played, take socker, its the ball nor the field, its the player kicking it..


haha - I'm unsure if this is a good thing or bad for me?!?
I've taken all my measurements to at least equal a 20mm pipe (area 314) which is what will be running on my return pump so in theory if everything is clear 5mm below the rim then with a 140mm wide filter compartment I have an area of 700. This is why the 'under' baffles are left 5mm below the rim as an addition safety.
I liked your method @zozo it just added more 'complications' for me and would not be something aside from biological I would see benefit from - maybe you disagree?
My target is to add a simple filtration section onto the end of my aquarium for many reasons but I think the design once ironed out will work.
Maybe there's something I'm not seeing and a fault in my design aside from distance between baffles and gaps?


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## zozo (26 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> maybe you disagree?



I rather do not.. And i'm not the sump design god..  Because each system works in it own unique way.. In the aquarium hobby there are a lot of possibilities that can not be predicted. If it works it works and what more do you want?.. If it doesn't and you find an unexpected flaw popping up after a while, than you simply need to redesign this or that in the concept to tackle the flaw. There is always a way without a total redesign with making some concesions maybe. It's all in the game called learning curve.


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## Andrew Butler (26 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> I rather do not.. And i'm not the sump design god


I'm unsure if you misunderstood what I meant - I had meant I am unsure quite the benefit your design would offer me aside from the planting and biological, although I know biological is important!
(maybe not the god but a man with experience and valid views and knowledge) 


zozo said:


> If it works it works and what more do you want?


The only thing I want aside from this is ease of maintenance. Of course the unexpected flaws are always a bonus. 

@zozo if you were to go down the route I am, by trying to keep things a simple under/over baffles - leaving the whole thing easy to take apart and clean what would you personally change about this design? I know often there is not just one right answer but I know there are wrong answers and value your opinions. 

My thoughts at the moment are around the following......
I need to finalise the return position and also the weir comb to be used which will allow me to define the 'over' baffles. (unsure what to do here if it's an adjustable height weir comb, thinking assume the lowest position.
The gap underneath baffles I don't think needs to be as big as 35mm for things to work in theory but on account the spacing between the baffles is 40mm I see little to gain by making it smaller and might increase it unless this can have negative effect?
Small spacing between baffles being 40mm is very tight, especially for such a length but I think any smaller will make it even harder to clean than it already will be and I don't think there's the space to make them any bigger.

I'm open to suggestions not just from Marcel but anyone who feels they have something to add.


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## zozo (26 Aug 2019)

Looking at your design diagram i see no reason why it should not work. The biological part from a filter is not in the media. What ever media you put in it will be colonized with bacteria more or less. Bacteira do not discriminate they will colonize glass marblles if yu put these in the fillter. If it all is sufficient will depend on the bioload from the aqaurium.

The only facts in this we know is the bacteria in it are highly depended on oxygen. When it recieves no athmospheric oxygen it will be depended on the dissolved oxygen from the water column. Than if what it gets from this water column is sufficient than you reached your goal.

In a sump design with a trickle part the bacteria in it recieve this atmospheric oxygen and is more sufficient.

But than again a valid question is what is beter? Is more sufficient always beter? After all sufficient is sufficient, obviously enough and all you need.

Than if a  canister is enough to filter it sufficiently.. Than i see no point in discussing arguments why a sump should be beter no matter it's design. It might be theoriticaly, but i can't know..

Than indeed go with a design you feel most comfortable with regarding maintenance.


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## Andrew Butler (27 Aug 2019)

zozo said:


> Bacteira do not discriminate they will colonize glass marblles if yu put these in the fillter


Are you taking inspiration from Clive in this post?! 


zozo said:


> The only facts in this we know is the bacteria in it are highly depended on oxygen.


As I'm not very good at remembering the correct terms I'm assuming here you mean the bacteria in the media relies upon Oxygen - if this is the case if I'm to use a twinstar steriliser then positioning this before the media would then be a good idea do people think? I've no idea if the performance of the twinstar will be wasted by doing this.


zozo said:


> Than if a canister is enough to filter it sufficiently.. Than i see no point in discussing arguments why a sump should be beter no matter it's design. It might be theoriticaly, but i can't know


The whole idea of this is to simply replace a separate canister filter and have it all in one place so the purpose of this is exactly that - a built in filter added/included on the end of my aquarium.
I've never had intentions to argue so I'm sorry if it has come across that way.


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> the bacteria in the media relies upon Oxygen - if this is the case if I'm to use a twinstar steriliser then positioning this before the media would then be a good idea do people think? I've no idea if the performance of the twinstar will be wasted by doing this.



Given you’ve got the Twinstar Andrew I would use it for the first couple of months in tank below the outlet then remove it afterwards if you think it’s an eyesore. At a glance this would be the most efficient means of prolonging any o2 bubbles in the water column to get them into solution. Everything in tank and in the filter will benefit during start up.


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## Andrew Butler (27 Aug 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> if you think it’s an eyesore


The problem is I know it's an eyesore! - *maybe* an air pump could help things hidden away in the filtration section?

This has led to further though and I'm now wondering if the filter not having traditional sump overflow baffles where water would fall into the next chamber and instead simply running with a constant water level throughout along with not skimming the surface and taking air in would effect the CO2 levels?


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## Costa (22 Sep 2019)

I came across a sump setup over on the plantedtank forums of someone who was using just 2 blue filter foam mats to create 3 spaces in his sump and it worked just fine. I will try to find the link for you


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## Andrew Butler (22 Sep 2019)

Costa said:


> I came across a sump setup over on the plantedtank forums of someone who was using just 2 blue filter foam mats to create 3 spaces in his sump and it worked just fine. I will try to find the link for you


Interested to see and read about this if you find it please.


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## Costa (23 Sep 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> Interested to see and read about this if you find it please.



There you go

https://www.plantedtank.net/#/topics/1121050?page=1


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## Hanuman (23 Sep 2019)

Costa said:


> There you go
> 
> https://www.plantedtank.net/#/topics/1121050?page=1


That link doesn't seem to redirect to a specific topic but to the "Most Popular Discussions" page.


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## Andrew Butler (23 Sep 2019)

Costa said:


> There you go


and just when I was getting excited! haha


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## Costa (23 Sep 2019)

Tsing's 135 Hybrid https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1121050


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## Andrew Butler (23 Sep 2019)

Costa said:


> Tsing's 135 Hybrid https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1121050


23 pages; might be a while!
Thanks


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## Andrew Butler (4 Dec 2019)

So; things have had some interesting events and along with the aquarium arriving very late only to be made back to front it got made the correct way (after much protest) it then arrived to a sub standard which I did accept as I thought I could work with it, however when I filled it for a trial the silicone gave.  That's now another story as I think I've found the company to now build it who seem a lot more knowledgeable, have the equipment and from photos the skills - we will see how it turns out next month hopefully!

Before I noticed the silicone and had to drain it rather quick I did have chance to test the RFG (Random Flow Generator) and first signs look promising (although the hole in the correct place would have helped) link here to a video of it running for a few minutes and prior to this few minutes flow had been all around the back of the aquarium, it really did seem to get everywhere but only testing it with stone and sand will tell. If it doesn't work it's a simple case of removing it and adding a standard Loc-Line nozzle.

*CO2 is the topic at the moment*, I'll base this on photos of the aquarium that went back and is *roughly* how things should be just explaining the very basics. You will see in the first photo working left to right; water enters the 1st section (Weir comb missing) down through some filter foam, underneath the first baffle and back over the next to go down through some bio balls, under the third baffle then back over to the return pump section where the pump will return the water to the aquarium from the bottom of the return section and add CO2 there.
The second photo will hopefully help show further how this will differentiate from a sump and is instead an all in one/integrated filter (other descriptors welcome). The idea is that the water level stays the same throughout the display and partitioned filtration section. There are no places where the water will come cascading over baffles etc so I question how/why this would effect CO2?
The Blue line is approximate water level; 12mm from rim *throughout*.

'Injecting' CO2 would be using a similar method to @Geoffrey Rea does here where the CO2 is diffused and sucked straight into a return pump which will break it up more then hopefully the Venturi action of the RFG will help further. @foxfish I will try to squeeze some kind of cone in if I can but it looked a bit too tight.


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## zozo (4 Dec 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> The idea is that the water level stays the same throughout the display and partitioned filtration section.



If the filter section is completely sealed off from the main tank section. and all stay open top. Then the water level in the filter partition will lower as water from the tank evaporates. The tank will be refilled from the filter partition.
And then you will get cascading water over the last baffle. In time if you do not refill the filter section it results in a partially dry running pump.

To overcome this than drill another small hole bellows the filter outlet hole ½ way down the last partition. 2mm might be enough.


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## Andrew Butler (4 Dec 2019)

@zozo I had only outlined things and missed out quite a lot I probably should have said; I do plan to have some kind of cover over the filtration section with a cutout at the back for cables and pipes  etc along with an ATO which should keep water level under control. The pump has a run dry sensor on it so hopefully that would cut out if it were to get blocked for any reason, things I'll probably experiment with to see what hapens
Providing the pump isn't run quicker than what the filtration section can easily turnover I'm assuming it will be ok. The new weir teeth cut out should hopefully allow plenty of space but will also try imitating that being partly clogged to see what happens. I'm having the weir teeth made around 60mm high and 5mm wide, there will be 13 or 14 openings so a good area*. should be able to run it lower than the 12mm level if I choose to add a jumpguard as I do like hatchetfish - we will see how the experiments work out. I also don't want to leave them too long and fragile
*If my calculations are right then 14 teeth with a 5mm width at 48mm (60-12) should give an area of 336 and to compare a 16mm diameter pipe area is 201

Any views on the CO2 and if it will be effected?


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## foxfish (4 Dec 2019)

So the main tank will always have the same water level as long as the pump is running but any evaporation will lower the  last compartment ten fold ?
That is fine if you are home every day to check it otherwise you will need an auto top up?


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## zozo (4 Dec 2019)

foxfish said:


> So the main tank will always have the same water level as long as the pump is running but any evaporation will lower the  last compartment ten fold ?
> That is fine if you are home every day to check it otherwise you will need an auto top up?



Yup that's the case with any sump. Autofill would be nice but since it needs mechanical stuff then an overflow in the sump is required as a fail-safe. Similar to the overflow in the toilet cistern prevents flooding if the valve fails to shut.

As said in this case it could easily be prevented with drilling a little hole under the pump outlet. That will equal the water level with the aquarium. A 1mm  hole will already be enough for that. 

If you don't then this will be your evaporation reservior. Marked in blue. What's that 1 litre? Refill every day.


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## Andrew Butler (5 Dec 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> along with an ATO which should keep water level under control





foxfish said:


> That is fine if you are home every day to check it otherwise you will need an auto top up?





zozo said:


> Autofill would be nice


If you look back to earlier posts (#7 #8 I think) I was going to have the final over baffle made shorter and don't know why I didn't if I'm honest.
If I were to do this then this would fix the problem in any case wouldn't it should the ATO fail?
I could also explore the option of adding 'X' amount of water through one of my spare dosing channels.

What do you think to simply lowering the final over over baffle?

Am I wrong to think that if the over baffle(s) is/are below the low water line then it should still flow through?


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## foxfish (5 Dec 2019)

Unfortunate not, you can equalise the water level by making a direct connection from the last compartment to the main tank (ie as Marcel suggest via a small hole) or you can fit a micro top up valve to the last compartment or an float switch to a reserve water tank.
However if you connect the filter to the tank you will still have to monitor the water level as eventually it would drop below the baffle.
All the sumps I have ever used rely   on a top up valve. 
If you removed all the baffles then you would have far more scope for evaporation as you would have the total volume of you sump compartment.


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## zozo (5 Dec 2019)

You could remove the last baffle completely.  It actually has little function. Then you will increase the volume x 2.5

Then you still will have the same issue with that water level lowering with evaporation from the tank. Keeping both levels in tank and sump permanently the same will be impossible without an autofill.

But in this case, it could also be beneficial since it will turn the second compartment that holds bio-media partially into a trickle filter while the water level slowly lowers.


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## Chris Tinker (5 Dec 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> The problem is I know it's an eyesore! - *maybe* an air pump could help things hidden away in the filtration section?
> 
> This has led to further though and I'm now wondering if the filter not having traditional sump overflow baffles where water would fall into the next chamber and instead simply running with a constant water level throughout along with not skimming the surface and taking air in would effect the CO2 levels?




Reading the journal and i was waiting to suggest this. Air stone under your media so the bubbles go up, while the water pushes it down... back to page 2 august i go. Hate spoilers...


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## foxfish (5 Dec 2019)

If you fitted a cover glass then evaporation would be very low, it might only need a bit of topping up every week or so.


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## Andrew Butler (5 Dec 2019)

If I cut to the chase - I'm not sure what I'm doing, don't understand the science and really just don't have a clue. 

I know what I'd like; an aquarium with a partitioned filtration compartment situated on one end that will take water through a weir comb type strainer from the waters surface, allow me to put the flow through filter foam, have a section for media (bio-balls etc) and a compartment for positioning a return pump, heater etc. I'd also like that to run without any cascading water etc, mainly to help keep it running quietly. So now I need to work out how to make that happen which if you think you can then I'm all ears and welcome to a many suggestions. 



foxfish said:


> you can equalise the water level by making a direct connection from the last compartment to the main tank (ie as Marcel suggest via a small hole)


I assume this is the easiest way to keep the water in the aquarium and filtration compartment the same? Any other suggestions?


foxfish said:


> if you connect the filter to the tank you will still have to monitor the water level as eventually it would drop below the baffle


I don't understand why this would happen if the hole was drilled to equalise the system, unless the hole was to be below the waters surface.


foxfish said:


> you can fit a micro top up valve to the last compartment or an float switch to a reserve water tank.


This is something I've got, used in the past and always planned to include it - I've maybe just been unsure where; in the filtration compartment or the display but hidden in the filtration is preferable.


foxfish said:


> If you removed all the baffles then you would have far more scope for evaporation as you would have the total volume of you sump compartment.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm I'd like to understand things before I take this step.


zozo said:


> You could remove the last baffle completely.  It actually has little function. Then you will increase the volume x 2.5
> 
> Then you still will have the same issue with that water level lowering with evaporation from the tank. Keeping both levels in tank and sump permanently the same will be impossible without an autofill.
> 
> But in this case, it could also be beneficial since it will turn the second compartment that holds bio-media partially into a trickle filter while the water level slowly lowers.


You do mean just the last baffle - so there would be 3 left? under/over/under
I'd really like to try and find a way to have the water level throughout the whole system at the same level - is this just not possible?


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## zozo (5 Dec 2019)

This  The last baffle in your picture should simply be a vertical strip. Not taller than yellow block = polishing sponge and it retains the detritus that falls from the bio-media.
It will accumulate in front of that sponge.

And this will be silent 





All permanently the same water level than you should prevent evaporation. Cover all tight.. Is it open top, then yes, it's not possible.


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## Andrew Butler (5 Dec 2019)

zozo said:


> Is it open top


There will be a cover over the filtration section but have space for cables etc.

There are companies out there who make all in one aquariums, the kind of concept I'm looking to achieve; lifeguard aquatics being one so how do they make such systems work?



zozo said:


> The last baffle in your picture should simply be a vertical strip


I only see the water falling in height which I think would make some noise in my opinion.
So the simple method of drilling a small hole between main display and pump/return section would not allow me to keep the levels in filtration and display section the same without having to do anything else? I'm unsure the idea of the hole in that case.


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## zozo (6 Dec 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> I only see the water falling in height which I think would make some noise in my opinion.


Where do you see that?



Andrew Butler said:


> So the simple method of drilling a small hole between main display and pump/return section would not allow me to keep the levels in filtration and display section the same without having to do anything else? I'm unsure the idea of the hole in that case.



No, not entirely but it will take a longer time.  There always will be a time you need to top off water and since your pumping water from the filter section to the tank, the filter will always start to drain at some point. Also because you will pump more volume out than can run back from a small hole.

But we are definitively overcomplicating things. To learn it is best to stop thinking and stop talking about it and start building. Take a known concept that prooved and replicate it and see how it functions in real-time.


Play with that for a while and go from there to improve it.

If you are stuck on wanting both filter and tank always the same water level. Than you rather skip the sump idea go with Hamburg mattenfilter concept.


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2019)

So this is the problem ... any and all evaporation will only be noticeable in the filter pump compartment.
That means if there is 1mm of water loss in the main tank that with only be noticeable  as 20mm in the pump chamber. (Just an approximation )


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2019)

There are ways to rectify the issue....
Install a mini top up valve in the pump chamber, a 6mm mains water RO  supply would work.
Install a micro float switch in the pump chamber that powers a small pump to top up from a reservoir.  
Change the inlet from a surface skimmer to a bottom drain.... that might involve quite a bit of work though as a hole would have to be drilled and the filter chamber baffles altered .
Placing a glass cover over the tank would be the easy option or just topping up manually when needed.
It may be you won’t experience any real issues at all and it will run smoothly? Only one way to find that out.....


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## Andrew Butler (6 Dec 2019)

zozo said:


>





zozo said:


> Where do you see that?





zozo said:


> No, not entirely but it will take a longer time


What is the use of the small hole in this case?


zozo said:


> To learn it is best to stop thinking and stop talking about it and start building. Take a known concept that prooved and replicate it and see how it functions in real-time.


It's being built for me so would like to get things something like right.


zozo said:


> If you are stuck on wanting both filter and tank always the same water level. Than you rather skip the sump idea go with Hamburg mattenfilter concept.


I looked into this method and I don't think it's the method for me.

@foxfish I understand what you mean with reference to area of water being lost in the display and that being multiplied in the pump section.

I already have an optical sensor I can locate in the return section which operates an ATO system.
I'm keen to keep the inlet at the surface to draw in any oils etc and although not a skimmer it should give some kind of benefit I think.
A glass cover over the whole aquarium is another thing I don't want to do although the filtration section will be covered, in part at least.
I can think about using one of the spare channels on my doser to keep things going along with the ATO


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## Andrew Butler (8 Dec 2019)

I've had a read back over all of this from the start with a clearer head and I think I now understands certain things a little better; I'd assumptions with this being an all in one compared to a separate sump that it would just run at a consistent level throughout - why, who knows!

I do intend to have an ATO with the sensor in the return pump section which I think is the correct place if I'm to assume this runs as a conventional sump

Questions I now have..............
-if I were to set the return pump to stop even for a few minutes a day would this then allow water to settle itself at a continual level throughout?
-if the above was possible would this then give the ATO a chance to make the water level consistent throughout display and filtration section?
-if either or both were possible would I need the small hole in return section drilled for them to happen? - maybe this would make it easier or being acrylic would you dare drill it after?

@zozo and @foxfish feel free to try and answer if it doesn't include banging your heads against the wall in frustration 
Anyone else who has an understanding feel free to jump in.


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## webworm (8 Dec 2019)

One of the main things to think about is the size of the 'overflow' which then comes down to all sorts of maths around hydraulics.
The width of the opening into the filter section (lets call it a weir) along with it's height will dictate the maximum flow rate that can be achieved. Of course remembering that the actual height of the water above the weir will be determined by the flow rate of the water returning to the tank.

There's a nice on-line calculator here: http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Water-Measurements/Rectangular-Contracted-Weir.php

With a weir of 10cm x 2.5cm, you get a flow rate of 11 L/Min. Of course you can reverse the calculations to give you a weir size for a specific flow rate.

So lots to think about, but in reality, it's a case of trial and error to see what can be achieved.


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## foxfish (8 Dec 2019)

if there was a small hole joining the pump compartment and the main tank .....when the pump was turned off the water levels would equalise but as soon as the pump is tuned back on, the pump chamber will return to the same state as it was  before.
Joining the two is not really the answer, all that will do is temporarily  delay the pump chamber running dry.  

You are close but I don’t think you have quite grasped the mechanics as yet.
Look at my drawing again, without making a video I don’t think. I can explain it any better than the drawing.

However try this..... as long as the pump is running it is impossible  for the main tank water level to drop below the overflow . Even if you scoped out a cup full of water the level would only drop for a second or two before the pump refilled the tank and water begins to overflow again.... now that cup full of water has gone, the tank is still full but the pump chamber has a cup full less water.


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## Andrew Butler (8 Dec 2019)

Hey, @webworm thanks for the info but I'm getting different info from what you are for the 10cm x 2.5cm weir - that gives you 0.7 lps which equates to 42 lpm if I'm not correct? (lps x 60 = lpm) unsure if I'm looking at the wrong thing?
Everything I'm suggesting assumes the weir and filtration can keep up with the pump.


foxfish said:


> if there was a small hole joining the pump compartment and the main tank .....when the pump was turned off the water levels would equalise but as soon as the pump is tuned back on, the pump chamber will return to the same state as it was before.


Even if the ATU boosted the level(s) in both display and filtration sections?


foxfish said:


> You are close but I don’t think you have quite grasped the mechanics as yet.


Neither do I  - Tried having a look back over your drawings and I just don't think I do understand why the possible suggestions I mentioned would work.
Maybe I should just be quiet as I feel like I'm missing the very obvious and just at risk of sounding even more stupid.
Without seeing this first hand and witnessing what's going on I don't think I stand a chance so the right methods to employ have now lost me completely.

I need to go right back to begining; find a way to configure a system without really understanding it.
If it was your aquarium @foxfish then how would you design it and why is maybe the easiest question I have right now baring in mind I'd like to keep the under/over configuration etc.
Also how do I keep the display section at the same level and keep the filtration part quiet?


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## foxfish (9 Dec 2019)

Well I have always used sumps and a 6mm float  valve from the mains water.
I like using a sump for my filter and hiding equipment but the whole sump is  hidden from view.
However I am a practical sort of guy, I can build what I want and just how I want.

Under tank sumps with overflow supply are definitely not a simple or easy option and I would not recommend them for a the average planted tank.
Your design does not fit my personal goals as it is visible and far to small.
It would be a lot easier to stand a power filter along side the tank.
However all you need is an auto top up into you pump compartment and your design will work, a mini ball valve cost a few £s you just need to connect  it to a water supply .


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## dw1305 (9 Dec 2019)

Hi all, 





foxfish said:


> However try this..... as long as the pump is running it is impossible for the main tank water level to drop below the overflow . Even if you scooped out a cup full of water the level would only drop for a second or two before the pump refilled the tank and water begins to overflow again.... now that cup full of water has gone, the tank is still full but the pump chamber has a cup full less water.


Perfect.

cheers Darrel


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## Andrew Butler (1 Feb 2020)

@foxfish @zozo @dw1305 
I'm unsure why but the water level in my display seems to be evaporating at the same rate as the filtration (and return) section.
I've got foam in at the moment but am yet to add a ceramic media but can't see that making a difference in the way suggested.
any idea why this seem to be exception to the rule?


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## foxfish (1 Feb 2020)

May not be a day .. might be a week might be a month but the simple and unavoidable physics dictate the inevitable .
Unless there is some factor we are not aware of ?


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## Gill (1 Feb 2020)

zozo said:


> Play with that for a while and go from there to improve it.
> 
> If you are stuck on wanting both filter and tank always the same water level. Than you rather skip the sump idea go with Hamburg mattenfilter concept.




I have trialed all the above methods, andby far the winner is HMF. As there is no difference in the water levels, And it still allows you to create chambers for other media using a bit of egg crate etc.


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## foxfish (1 Feb 2020)

Perhaps your overflow has slots and is not actually an overflow?
Or perhaps it is well below the waterline and not actually working as an overflow?
You can’t deny the laws of physics of defy science so if your water levers are remaining the same there must be a reason.
Maybe some photos would help explain to us what is happening.


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## Gill (1 Feb 2020)

foxfish said:


> Perhaps your overflow has slots and is not actually an overflow?
> Or perhaps it is well below the waterline and not actually working as an overflow?
> You can’t deny the laws of physics of defy science so if your water levers are remaining the same there must be a reason.
> Maybe some photos would help explain to us what is happening.



Apologies should have stated that I am using Matala Matting. It has a webbing, so allows water to pass right thru without restriction (but not fish). And has such a massive surface area for bacteria to grow upon.

https://www.swelluk.com/swell-japan...02nFd6egVPYo02wTxKfzeBwFbsqH03JwaAnhPEALw_wcB


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## zozo (2 Feb 2020)

If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.

If both compartments are standalone and not connected, you pump water from one to the other, then the evaporation can only be noticed in the part that contains the pump. This will drain and finally run dry if evaporated water is not topped off again.


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

I'm unsure if we've been on the same page since day one @foxfish 
The water intake slots are not intended for water to spill over (lower level in filtration compartment) but simply be drawn through then under and over the 2 sets of baffles to filter the water before returning it to the aquarium; is this what you thought I had?
I do agree that after an extended period that if water evaporates to below the bottom of the slots or the over baffles (Day 3 onwards in your drawings) then the system would require additional water but regardless the water is still evaporating throughout the whole system in my case. Maybe when I add another media it will cause things to slow down? - this would be down to restricted flow though surely? if the water is not getting to the pump fast enough it will just pump the section dry is what my head says.


zozo said:


> If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.


I will have to empty the system and try just filling up the filtration section to disprove this theory but I really don't think this is the case.
@Gill did you have problems with water only evaporating from the filtration section?

This is leaving me wondering what is going on with my system; after not understanding the theory of this put to me in the past I'm a little lost.


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## foxfish (2 Feb 2020)

Ha ha ... well In that case the filter is in fact joined to the tank until the water level dropped below the slots and in fact you do not actually have an overflow .
It looks like you can afford around 50mm drop in water level before the baffles start to actually overflow.


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

foxfish said:


> a ha ... well In that case the filter is in fact joined to the tank until the water level dropped below the slots and in fact you do not actually have an overflow .
> It looks like you can afford around 50mm drop in water level before the baffles start to actually overflow.


So I've been confusing myself for months now, trying to get myself around something I already understood? 
There are posts throughout the thread that show water level above the bottom of any weir comb or baffles.



zozo said:


> If both tank and filter compartment stay the same water level i can think off only one reason. Both compartments are not properly sealed from each other and connected somewhere.


does this still stand in your eyes?


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## foxfish (2 Feb 2020)

There are two key words ... overflow and sump... neither of those apply as you dont have either in your system.
If the slots were not there then the thread would all make sense and in fact you would of had a sump and overflow!  
Certainly a lot of misunderstanding....
So the only real issues you have now is ... not letting the water drop below the slots and the slots not getting clogged or blocked in anyway.
It might be an idea  to lower the top of the area above the slotted transfer,  so if the slots did get blocked (dead leaf, dead fish etc) the flow could go over that area. Otherwise the main tank could overflow on to your floor.


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

foxfish said:


> There are two key words ... overflow and sump... neither of those apply as you dont have either in your system


I'd tried to give the best descriptor I could which is where 'aquarium with filtration compartment' came into play.
How do you think this should be described?
The partition is a couple of mm lower than the sides of the aquarium which will account for everything aside from the slots allowing zero water through whatsoever which I think is quite unlikely.


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## webworm (2 Feb 2020)

Using the diagram from @Andrew Butler the pump chamber is 9l of water, you need to be able to hold this in the main tank in the event that the inlet blocks, which means that the water surface needs to be 2.1cm from the top of the tank to prevent water spilling out of the tank. That's assuming that the pump is able to completely empty the final chamber.
If you put the pump on a stand / egg crate half way up the chamber you can reduce the  water surface to aquarium top distance to 1cm, and also have the benefit of improved flow as the pump has a reduced head compared to the bottom


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

@webworm remember there's the gap over the top of the partition where water does go in the event the inlet slots are 100% blocked which is quite unlikely I think as plants tend to let some water through; I experimented with a piece of plastic that stopped all flow through the comb. It was the disruption from the flow alone that allowed it to come over the edge in one place other than that the 2mm gap over the top was sufficient. I maybe should have the top finished 1-2mm lower than it is now but cutting the acrylic from above is a little risky I think.


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## webworm (2 Feb 2020)

The key thing here is that you've actually tested it too many people don't.

You might want to think about putting the return pump on a float switch, in the event that there's not enough water in the return section to prevent it getting burnt out.


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

webworm said:


> The key thing here is that you've actually tested it too many people don't.


I knew it was going to be tight and reducing it further was an afterthought.


webworm said:


> You might want to think about putting the return pump on a float switch, in the event that there's not enough water in the return section to prevent it getting burnt out.


It's got a run dry cut out built in so that's sorted.

I'm considering things that might stop the power to the pump should water get to a certain level etc, maybe overcomplicating things for the small risk factor.
Living a bit dangerously maybe?


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## dean (2 Feb 2020)

Why not keep it very simple 
Silicone a piece of acrylic  in it across the section of the tank 
Drill it full of holes 
Then simply put a big piece of filter sponge (50mm thick) up against it 

You can put pumps in the chamber so they draw water through the songs 

Put heaters in there too 

Never going to run dry 
Huge surface area 
Very easy to keep clean 

Keep even the smallest fish out of the chamber if you drill the holes small enough 

The only pain is drilling all the holes 
But it a one off thing 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zozo (2 Feb 2020)

Andrew Butler said:


> did you have problems with water only evaporating from the filtration section?



 The water doesn't only evaporate from the filter section... It will evaporate from both sections. But, what evaporates from the tank, will be topped off again from the filter section.

See the system regardless the baffles as 2 separate buckets with water. Now you pump water from bucket 1 to bucket 2. Suppose you pump the exact amount of water that evaporates back into bucket 2. Obviously bucket 1 will be the only one lowering its water level because it isn't refilled. It's bucket 1 constantly refilling bucket 2. Thus if you do not manually refill bucket 1 it will finally run dry.

Anyway, i have a hunch that you have filled both tank and filter section to the exact same level.
It will stay this same level till the water in the tank and filter section gets to the overflow level. At that point you will notice the filter compartment lowering its level if you do not top it off again manually.

Where the red line will be the overflow level. Only if the red circle is completely sealed. If not the overflow level will be the green line.


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## Gill (2 Feb 2020)

Nope no problems as it has a hood on it now.


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## foxfish (2 Feb 2020)

Andrew, I think you will be fine with your set up, it is not a normal configuration but I see no reason why it will not work very well for you as long as you keep an eye on it.
Have you considered feeding the pump with C02?


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## Andrew Butler (2 Feb 2020)

foxfish said:


> Andrew, I think you will be fine with your set up, it is not a normal configuration but I see no reason why it will not work very well for you as long as you keep an eye on it.
> Have you considered feeding the pump with C02?


Is it really that abnormal? I know it is a method used in other countries and even widespread with off the shelf products in the UK like the Fluval Flex.
It's just like going through the processes of what any filtration would do but just contained and hidden away within the main aquarium isn't it?
CO2 will be a bazooka diffuser placed underneath the pump intake and see how that works (not enough room to fit a funnel)

I guess time will tell how it works.


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## Andrew Butler (5 Feb 2020)

Had it running for a few days just to keep some plants alive for elsewhere and what's become obvious is my optimistic hopes for a surface skimming action isn't there.
I know the water runs right throughout the whole system at the same height but was hoping the draw of the 'under' action from the first baffle might be enough to draw the scum from the surface which it clearly isn't.
Thinking about ways I could make this possible using the system I have which leaves me with a few ideas (some/all a little crazy):
-run a small 'off the shelf' surface skimmer and direct the flow downwards within the first chamber
-block some of the height of the slots from behind so it skims the very top of the waters surface
-add some kind of additional weir box inside the first chamber that allows the full amount of slots to be used if needed but brings the overflow upto a height that will skim the water surface
-Some kind of revolutionary self adjusting surface skimmer design that sits within the first chamber and adjusts to the water level.
-block some of the the width of the first chamber to concentrate the draw and maybe skim the surface at the same time.

I can see potential flaws with all of the ideas, maybe someone might have something to put forward?


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## Andrew Butler (5 Feb 2020)

I guess the photos might help.......


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## foxfish (5 Feb 2020)

Most swimming pools have self adjusting skimmers and some koi pond design have auto adjusting weirs, you may get some inspiration from those designs .  
I know we would be just turning a big circle but the obvious tried and tested method would to run the filter compartment without the slots and at a slightly lower level but with an auto top up in place!
Or I  guess you could just place a bit of plastic over the slots so that it closes off the bottom half and leave it for a couple of hours a day.


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## Andrew Butler (5 Feb 2020)

foxfish said:


> I know we would be just turning a big circle


HAHA, if I'm being perfectly honest I'm still unsure how you thought I was going to run it in the first place.
I think the photos of leaking MKI that came wrong before I added the skimmer comb to it confused things but thought the drawings set things straight.
There are quite a few systems out there like this, exact designs vary massively though which is why I started this thread.

I'm wondering if there's a way to make that piece of plastic that covers the slots off sit at the correct level to skim and auto adjust for water level. (still include the ATO) I'd need to ensure the filtration section could overflow into the display a bit more reliably before I tried this though I think. (Ever tried routing acrylic from the side?!?)


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