# Going Dutch by the book - tank sponsored by Tropica



## Pedro Rosa

2015 tanks are over (still have a final picture and video for post on Dark Land)!!!
Holidays are over… just like I read on Facebook today: “September is the Monday of the Year”

… so let’s start to work on something new.

For me it’s really something new: a *Dutch Tank by the rules*… or so i think/wish/… only the future will tell.

*Thanks for Tropica interest in sponsoring the tank with their excepcional plants and Tropica Soil*. I hope to make good use of there products. Thanks also for Aquaeden in Portugal, kind of the portuguese "home" of Tropica - it was where i started to get to know the products and learned a lot with Rui.

Like you’ll see there’s some problems, yet.
Many of you have done it and I hope to have good advices.

This is a project for some months. I will probably feel the "need" to go back to NA in March/2016 or something like that... but that depends on the success of this one (if it's like i wish by that time). I like to have a sort of "schedule" so that goals are clear.

I have this wish since the beginning of the year and although i made Dark Land in the meantime, this was already planned at that time.
Why? Because i love this kind of tank! Because having to comply to certain rules gives be some challenges that Aquascaping doesn’t have.
… and because they’re lovely tanks when they’re well done!

I also want to continue to learn good trimming techniques regarding large bunch of stem plants and many different species at the same tank.
Plants have different growth rates and having a tank with so much different plants, should be a challenge having it looking nice and balanced most of the time.

… *and a Dutch Tank is really about the growth and arrangement of aquatic plants!!!*

On the last months i read some stuff about Dutch Tanks.
Since the end of August i read some of those sources again.
At the same time i’ve been having some other precious advices from a experienced aquarist.

One of the best readings was from UKAPS: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/crash-course-dutch-style-aquascaping.8713/, a very nice post from Marco Aukes.
I’m not reapeating that post and other sources, but as most of you should know NBAT (Dutch Society for Aquarists) founded Dutch-style Aquarium (1930s) and wrote the rules. Their contests were great (they’re over?) and NBAT had a large number of members.
It’s pretty good to know that those contests were jugded live, judges went to people places to see how everything was setup: room placement, electrical connections, aquarium healthy, plant related rules, etc.

Thank God that i don’t need to comply with some contest rules! For starters I don’t have a “closet” like the ones used on Dutch Aquariums - you might remember seeing aquariums on closed closet with only the front glass visible, even the lighting was hidden away (today we have these sexy led lightings 
It was interesting to read that most of the aquarists used bottom fertiliser even on those days. I obviously will use it.

So, what do I want?
*I want a tank with a good first impression, great plant contrast and a nice perspective and depth of field, knowing that this can only be achieved with… plants!*
I’ll probably won’t achieve some of these goals 

From my readings and talks with someone used to this type of aquarius, I made a small rule list:
- Tradicional focal points / rule of thirds. Red plants should be placed accordingly.
- No two plants of the same color (similar colors shouldn’t also be placed next to each other)
- No two plants with the same leaf shape should be placed next to each other
- Plants should be placed in “streets”, wider at the front, narrow at the back, hiding away behind other plant preferably. This way a better depth of flied is achieved.
- Plants can’t be repeated
- Aim for good contrast but also simplicity.

It’s obvious that a great number of plants are needed for making a Dutch on 120cm. The rule of one plant for each 10 cm (with ~50 cm depth) should be respected. Could have more, but not for much. I’ll have a little more then 12  -> It's a problem!
Controlling all those plants is a must or there is a chaos waiting for me!

One of the things it was more difficult to me was to get down from more then 20 plants i had listed and then to place them on the diagram.
One of the most important rules are the plant placement and the colour and leaf shape. For this dimension i shouldn’t have more then 2 or 3 red plants and place them on focal points (following the rule of thirds)… and that must be achieved at the same time of other rules (no two identical plant colors and no similar leaf shapes should be next to each other).

I can tell you that following the leaf shape rule is much more easier then the color rule! (strange but it was what i felt).

Then we have the height of the plants that should also be different for plants next to each other.
And finally we have fore/middle and background plants… and having these possible three rows knowing that plants should be placed forming “streets” of plants that will get smaller to the back of the tank... I think you see the difficult in planning a Dutch tank.

Difficult for me… I suppose that other aquarists can make it easily.

For fish what i think right now is a school of tetras and a small school of larger fish (i’m thinking of some rainbow fish). But there are other options (larger fish, etc).

So this is the diagram:





Tropica plants:
1 - Murdannia Keijak
2 - Rotala Macrandra
3 - Pogostemon Erectus
4 - Limnophila hippuridoides
5 - Myriophyllum mattogrossense
6 - Ludwigia Palustris
7 - Heteranthera Zosterifolia
8 - Crinum calamistratum
9 - Cryptocoryne Petchi
10 - Lobelia Cardinalis
11 - Bacopa caroliniana
12 - Taxiphyllum 'Flame'
13 - Staurogyne Repens
14 - Utricularia graminifoli
15 - Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'
16 - Pogostemon Helferi

*Focal point: *Rotala Macrandra and Ludwigia Palustris… red althernathera at the front can lead to Ludwigia at the back but this can also collide with the rule of two color plants next to each other (although they’re separated by Flame Moss) -> Opinions?

*Other Problems:*
- Limnophila hippuridoides will be behind Lobelia and close o Myriophyllum mattogrossense and Pogostemon Erectus... It’s a purple plant, that is a colourful plant, could be a problem for the two focal point made by Rotala Macrandra and Ludwigia Palustris? Or can make some kind of “connection” between both of them?
- I'm seeing up to 4 strong colors in some well known dutchs, but they're 1,40m or 1,60m... so i could have a problem because i have four also on 1,20m
- Lobelia behind UG… same kind of green?… and UG next to Bacopa caroliniana… almost same kind of green?
- Finnaly(?) Staurogyne Repens in front of Crinum calamistratum… same kind of darker green?

Any suggestions on growing Murdannia Keijak? Never done it!

For now it's "only" this! Waiting for any good suggestions.
Would really like to start the next week.

Pedro.


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## alto

Nothing constructive to add buuuuuuuuuut 

Nesaea crassicaulis
Micranthemum umbrosum
Penthorum sedoides

offer some different color shades
(also does Tropica have anything "new" to test run in this tank?)


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## tmiravent

Pedro, i love the conceptual and idea!
It's really a turn!
One of the things that spoted to me in the begining of the hobby was the tech and solutions that dutch style uses. Co2 with reactores and controlers igot from there...
The rules and contest are very objective. I admire the aproche, a lot.

Cheers


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## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> Nothing constructive to add buuuuuuuuuut
> Nesaea crassicaulis
> Micranthemum umbrosum
> Penthorum sedoides



That was *very* constructive 

Nesaea crassicaulis -> I had to let go several red plants because i already have too much, like Ludwig Glandulosa, etc. However it's a very nice plant for a Duch.
Micranthemum umbrosum -> Same kind of Bacopa, no? ... Only for that place.
Penthorum sedoides -> Very good suggestion... if i really, really, need to substitute some colourful plant, this could be a winner... of for Murdannia Keijak ?!?!? Don't know...



tmiravent said:


> Pedro, i love the conceptual and idea!
> It's really a turn!
> One of the things that spoted to me in the begining of the hobby was the tech and solutions that dutch style uses. Co2 with reactores and controlers igot from there...
> The rules and contest are very objective. I admire the aproche, a lot.
> 
> Cheers



Thanks Tiago, I knew you would love the idea. Let's see what i achieve


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## parotet

Hi  Pedro

Subscribed! You may want to have a look to the Dutch tank of this guy, one of my preferred ones... Plenty of nice pictures on his Flickr. Hope it helps

https://flic.kr/p/ow6Ts6

Jordi


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## The_Iceman

You got me with "dutch"!

Count me in... ! Subscribed!


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## Pedro Rosa

parotet said:


> Hi  Pedro
> 
> Subscribed! You may want to have a look to the Dutch tank of this guy, one of my preferred ones... Plenty of nice pictures on his Flickr. Hope it helps
> 
> https://flic.kr/p/ow6Ts6
> 
> Jordi



Jordi, I'm drooling... a lot! Crazy images...

DSC_0115 by Stephan Mönninghoff, on Flickr

Loved to see that he is using 3 red plants like i draw on the diagram. One of them is Althernathera on the front also! 
Have you seen the right side / front? (and the left and background also) ... 

At least 18 plants - including moss (I think!)

Great inspiration! Thank you.

Pedro.


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## Andy D

Looking forward to this!

Subscribed!


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## stu_

Watching with interest.
Good luck.
I may be completely wrong,but I think red plants as a background are a no-no.


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## Pedro Rosa

stu_ said:


> Watching with interest.
> Good luck.
> I may be completely wrong,but I think red plants as a background are a no-no.



Stu, I've been watching some real Dutch Tanks with red plants at the back, as long as they're at one of the thirds. Maybe most of the time with moss walls at the back...
Well... I'm still learning 

Pedro.


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## Robert H. Tavera

Hy pedro, an interesting thead,, just some ideas:
1.-In many dutch tanks there are like "classic" plants that You may add like hygrophila corymbosa and diformis.
2.- In a dutch tank is ll about color and texture maybe you're missing plants with very interesting colors or textures like rotala wallichi or a grass like plant and a big bold leaved echinodorus.
3.- all your plants are in the red, purple, green range... there are other colors like orange and brown.
4.- I think in your design you're missing a dominant path 
5.- Look at Willem van Wezel's tank, how hygrophila goes from the front to the  back of the entire tank.


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## Dantrasy

My favourite dutch (and the tank that got me into the hobby) is '50 Shades of Red'. It did very well at AGA a few years back. The creator of this dutch helped me a lot as I was learning the hobby.


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## parotet

Dantrasy said:


> My favourite dutch (and the tank that got me into the hobby) is '50 Shades of Red'.


Love it too (http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2013/show513.html), as it goes beyond the standard Dutch tanks. It is a pity that the pictures look so artificial (too much Photoshop or tubes much too pink), there was probably no need to do so in such a brilliant layout

Jordi


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## Alexander Belchenko

I bet it's pink tubes, like Sylvania Aquagrow.


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## Pedro Rosa

Robert H. Tavera said:


> Hy pedro, an interesting thead,, just some ideas:
> 1.-In many dutch tanks there are like "classic" plants that You may add like hygrophila corymbosa and diformis.
> 2.- In a dutch tank is ll about color and texture maybe you're missing plants with very interesting colors or textures like rotala wallichi or a grass like plant and a big bold leaved echinodorus.
> 3.- all your plants are in the red, purple, green range... there are other colors like orange and brown.
> 4.- I think in your design you're missing a dominant path
> 5.- Look at Willem van Wezel's tank, how hygrophila goes from the front to the  back of the entire tank.



Robert, thanks for those great tips.
I'll wait for some more time to decide what to do/change, however the number of coloured plants I have is already greater then it should be for the size (this is 120cm!).
Plants like Hygrophila was one of the candidates at the start...



Dantrasy said:


> My favourite dutch (and the tank that got me into the hobby) is '50 Shades of Red'. It did very well at AGA a few years back. The creator of this dutch helped me a lot as I was learning the hobby.



It's a great tank and i remember seeing the tank and the observations about the photos being to colourful.
However this is not a dutch tank, it's "kind of a dutch tank". At the front I can count 5 red plants in a very small place. That being said, if i could make a tank with half the initial impact this one have, i'll be very happy 
I agree with Karen Randall comments.

Pedro.


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## plutonow

Hi Pedro,
Nice planning and looks good, In my opinion You should start with this sketch, why because it is Your idea and You learn more.
Always it is possible to replace some species, changing location, different trimming etc.
Probably I will change few think: UG (14)as a first plan to end of left, less Pogostemon E.(3) for sure not so straight because You loss tank dept. maybe behind Lobella?
Dutch tank (or some close of this style) It is what I like the most, for me No1:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/55926/tank-of-the-month-october-2008-shay-fertig/page/2
Next:
http://www.aquagora.fr/Bac-No-20 2
http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/dutch-aquascapes.281/

All are creative and most important nice health plants.

PS
It looks You know rules of Dutch tanks, I read title but why do not break rules if You like it!?


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## Martin in Holland

If you are not interested in entering any competition, break the rules.


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## flygja

Very excited for this. I have 3 personal dreams in aquascaping - 1. A large discus tank, 2. A large marine tank and 3. A large dutch tank. So happy achieving my 3rd dream!


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## Pedro Rosa

plutonow said:


> Hi Pedro,
> Nice planning and looks good, In my opinion You should start with this sketch, why because it is Your idea and You learn more.
> Always it is possible to replace some species, changing location, different trimming etc.
> Probably I will change few think: UG (14)as a first plan to end of left, less Pogostemon E.(3) for sure not so straight because You loss tank dept. maybe behind Lobella?
> Dutch tank (or some close of this style) It is what I like the most, for me No1:
> http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/55926/tank-of-the-month-october-2008-shay-fertig/page/2
> Next:
> http://www.aquagora.fr/Bac-No-20 2
> http://www.aquascapingworld.com/threads/dutch-aquascapes.281/
> 
> All are creative and most important nice health plants.
> 
> PS
> It looks You know rules of Dutch tanks, I read title but why do not break rules if You like it!?



Thanks you very much.
Regarding your suggestions: UG wast at the left just before making this last diagram bu i changed it because of Staur. being next to other similar-leaf plants; yes, less straight path would have a greater impact, thanks! don't know if when/after planting i would see that.
Great inspirations!



Martin in China said:


> If you are not interested in entering any competition, break the rules.



Probably i'll send it to AGA (Dutch category) but the challenge is also doing something classical!



flygja said:


> Very excited for this. I have 3 personal dreams in aquascaping - 1. A large discus tank, 2. A large marine tank and 3. A large dutch tank. So happy achieving my 3rd dream!



Easy... start buying more aquariums


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## Edvet

Some added ideas Pedro: there are clickable links to the winners : http://213.247.51.185/aquarium/aquar_lhk.html


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## Ivan Lugovic

Hi Pedro.
From my experience in duch scape  I think that initial plan is irrelevant after first month or so because this kind of arragement demands more than knowlege of growing individual plants.
Some plant speaces will proliferate and some will not, also goes with the coulor and general health.
And that is normal regarding different needs of CO2/nutrients/light for each species.

10 cm rule is great, and it will work perfect in 120cm tank, but that also doesn't meens that you can't start with with 20+ species and reduce them according how they will react to given parameters.

Great thing about Duch scape is everlasting change, you can allways rearrange plants and colors untill you find that perfect balance....

One way or another, you are entering a great journey ant it will be a blast!

Watching.


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## banthaman.jm

Watching with interest Pedro
Jim


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## Ryan Thang To

nice one. looking forward to spme picture's 

cheers
ryan


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## Pedro Rosa

Thanks for all your suggestions and some very interesting sources of inspiration.
Hope to start in a few days.

Pedro.


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## REDSTEVEO

Ivan Lugovic said:


> Hi Pedro.
> From my experience in duch scape  I think that initial plan is irrelevant after first month or so because this kind of arragement demands more than knowlege of growing individual plants.
> Some plant speaces will proliferate and some will not, also goes with the coulor and general health.
> And that is normal regarding different needs of CO2/nutrients/light for each species.
> 
> 10 cm rule is great, and it will work perfect in 120cm tank, but that also doesn't meens that you can't start with with 20+ species and reduce them according how they will react to given parameters.
> 
> Great thing about Duch scape is everlasting change, you can allways rearrange plants and colors untill you find that perfect balance....
> 
> One way or another, you are entering a great journey ant it will be a blast!
> 
> Watching.



Hello Ivan,

One thing I have always wondered about the Dutch Style planted tanks. Do they all have a flat substrate base and create the illusion of different levels with plants of different heights. Or is there actually some physical creation of different levels by banking up substrate with stones and wood etc?

Good luck with the scape Pedro, I am watching this with interest.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Edvet

REDSTEVEO said:


> about the Dutch Style planted tanks


Old skool had some "hidden"terraces, often using:




 But these where mostly hidden behind other plants. But a complete flat substrate was used to, the plants made the height differences by pruning and clever locationing


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## REDSTEVEO

Thanks Edvet,

I used to know some 'Old Skool' guys when I lived in Germany I guess once the plants were grown in you could not see the bits used to create the different levels.

I think I have gone beyond the stage of glueing various bits of rock together so I have been toying with a plan to create different levels or heights using pond plant baskets of various shapes, sizes and heights. Filling each one with a base of Power Sand and Amazonia Soil and stacking them across the back of the tank at different levels, going from high at the back to lower and sloping at the front. Planting each basket with different plant species of varying heights and colours, even poking holes in the sides of the pond baskets to insert other plants or bits of wood.

It is either that or go back to the art of tying lava rock to sheets of plastic egg shell crate like I did with a previous scape in my old Trigon 190.

Steve


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## Edvet

The hanging baskets idea could work. Wrap something around them so mosses can grow and have plants poking out between the mosses


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## Edvet




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## Pedro Rosa

Ivan Lugovic said:


> One way or another, you are entering a great journey ant it will be a blast!



So I hope. One of the interesting things about this kind of aquarium is the problems concerning the growing and trimming of plants to keep it looking good most of the times.
We'll see what's coming 



REDSTEVEO said:


> Hello Ivan,
> One thing I have always wondered about the Dutch Style planted tanks. Do they all have a flat substrate base and create the illusion of different levels with plants of different heights. Or is there actually some physical creation of different levels by banking up substrate with stones and wood etc?
> Good luck with the scape Pedro, I am watching this with interest.



I'll make only about 3 or 4 cm of soil in the front and 12-15 cm at the back... Obviously that the trimming will make the depth of field (or so I say!).

Pedro.


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## Scapefu

Pedro,

I'm watching with interest. In my experience, the Dutch style is relatively easy to do conceptually but extremely difficult to do well in practice and long term. 

Diligent and masterful trimming will make it the Dutch style. Less than that and you end up with what I call a fruit stand look- bunches of colorful plants looking like fruit piled up in a stand. Both are nice but only one is Dutch style.

Boa sorte!


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## Pedro Rosa

Scapefu said:


> I'm watching with interest. In my experience, the Dutch style is relatively easy to do conceptually but extremely difficult to do well in practice and long term.
> Diligent and masterful trimming will make it the Dutch style. Less than that and you end up with what I call a fruit stand look- bunches of colorful plants looking like fruit piled up in a stand. Both are nice but only one is Dutch style.
> Boa sorte!



Yes, everyone keeps telling me that 
I suppose that I'll have to test myself and ear you guys along the way.

Obrigado


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## Pedro Rosa

Well, *It's done*!
On the last weekend I was able to start this project.
I'm pretty happy with being able to do an aquarium like this. I considered it a great challenge and I know that will not be easy. I think that the trimming will start next weekend 


I can't be more happier with the great quality of Tropica products. Received all in great conditions, like usually happens.

I'll post images from 3 days, one day per post.





Almost 70 pots/1-2-grow... and almost a whole afternoon preparing plants and planting.

















Maybe a bit more then one third planted. Sticks and marks on the glasses are for marking the planting spots (sticks on the plants intervals). Implementing the diagram was not an easy task but with markers it's easier.





Some details:

















Another view:





Some time after... almost all planted:





Top view from the left to the right:













Some more details. It's funny to see this first pictures after some time and look at the changes:









A bunch of "different" pictures with plant names on the layout:


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## Bacms

No photo of the tank filled? Does that mean you are going emersed first?


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## Pedro Rosa

*24 hours later*

Some plants changed a lot on the first 24 hours.
I have CO2 (3 - 4 bps) since day one and dosing 15 ml of Tropica Specialised since day one also (1-2-grow plants need fertilisation since day one or something like that).
Almost all plants are upwards. Some 1-2-grow will take more time to start growing rapidly.

Overview:









Myriophyllum mattogrossense is the plant that grew more:



 





Just love this Cryptocoryne Petchi:









Ludwigia Palustris, behing Eleocharis sp., is another one of the fast grower, at least now:













The beautiful and different Pogostemon Helferi:





Great colors since day one for the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini':





Love this picture (Bacopa caroliniana):





Still emersed Lobelia Cardinalis:





The soon to be beautiful Limnophila hippuridoides:





The (still) very small Staurogyne Repens, from 1-2-grow:





Yes, the following one is Pogostemon Erectus, still very small, also from 1-2-gow. Love this one!





"Devil" plant - Utricularia graminifoli - will it grow?


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## parotet

I'm jealous, very jealous... 

Jordi


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## Robert H. Tavera

parotet said:


> I'm jealous, very jealous...
> 
> Jordi


Me too. !!! 
Nice to see you added some vertical lines with eleocharis... This will be a winderful tank, 70 pots!! Thats a lot of $$ for many of us !! 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## Pedro Rosa

*72 hours later*

Uau! That's what i told myself when arrived at home on late tuesday 









From the right to the left... even 1-2-grow plants are growing very well.













Some details:













Rotala Macandra... just love this one... still very, very small but it's starting up:





Yes, UG it's still there 





Lobelia:


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## Pedro Rosa

Bacms said:


> No photo of the tank filled? Does that mean you are going emersed first?



It's true, i didn't upload any picture of the tank filled on the first day. I have it on video.



Robert H. Tavera said:


> Me too. !!!
> Nice to see you added some vertical lines with eleocharis... This will be a winderful tank, 70 pots!! Thats a lot of $$ for many of us !!



Robert, as you can see you can start with a lot less and make more replanting on the first weeks.


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## alto

Fantastic!
And so appreciate the time you take to photograph the individual plants  

I always wish that Lobelia would retain that lovely purple~.green leaf once submersed.

Did plants & substrate etc ship direct from Tropica?
Can you remind me of tank dimensions, please


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## Edvet

Remember Dutch style is about trimming a lot too, off to a good start though!


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## Robert H. Tavera

I start dreaming with this tank, with a big school of tiny fish (Some Pedro´s aquascapes told me he likes really tiny fish) and the huge lush aquarium plants !!


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## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> Fantastic!
> And so appreciate the time you take to photograph the individual plants
> I always wish that Lobelia would retain that lovely purple~.green leaf once submersed.
> Did plants & substrate etc ship direct from Tropica?
> Can you remind me of tank dimensions, please



Yes, it would be wonderful to have that plant with that color. 
Yes, from Tropica.
It's 300l - 120x50x50 cm. Sorry... I have to post the setup...



Edvet said:


> Remember Dutch style is about trimming a lot too, off to a good start though!



Yes, and it would probably start this weekend 



Robert H. Tavera said:


> I start dreaming with this tank, with a big school of tiny fish (Some Pedro´s aquascapes told me he likes really tiny fish) and the huge lush aquarium plants !!



Don't know about that. In Aquascapes we have to use small fish... but here... don't really know


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## id_joker

I think the aquarium size is too small. you need at least 450 liters. a beautiful Dutch scape is around 600-700 liters


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## Hamza

Great start! I'll be expecting some journal videis too like your two other recent scapes..


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## Pedro Rosa

First week is over. Everything growing very well.
Three water changes (tuesday, friday and sunday).
Made very few trimming to control some plants, mainly Myriophyllum mattogrossense that is growing very fast and Bacopa Caroliniana was spreading horizontally.
Some few cuttings on Althernathera and Staurogyne to fill some gaps.
Utricularia graminifoli is there and growing. Keeping my finger crossed 

I'm increasing fertilisation this week.

These pictures were taken during and after the last Sunday water change.

*Day 8*

















Rotala Macandra is getting beautiful. Great colours already but will be better.









Ludwigia Palustris is also having a great red color with only one week underwater.









Staurogyne Repens









Myriophyllum mattogrossense





Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'





Limnophila hippuridoides





Pedro.


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## The_Iceman

That's a promising start and again wonderful photos, Pedro!

Cheers
Chris!


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## LondonDragon

Great start Pedro, parabens 

Great plant health and growth so far


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## Crossocheilus

Great growth after just one week! I'm sure this will be a stunnning dutch scape. I'm very tempted to copy you and go dutch at some point.


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## Pedro Rosa

Thanks guys. Yes it's starting rather well. Let's see how it will grow from now on.

Pedro.


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## Edvet

Looking healthy!


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## tmiravent

Flying dutch! 

Enviado do meu B1-750 através de Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Looks great...who needs hardscape?


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## REDSTEVEO

Hi Pedro,
Looking great so far!

Can I just ask what your opinion is on the difference between the Tropica Soil and Powder compared to the ADA Amazonia Soil and Powder?

I always found that the Amazonia powder was a bit too light weight to plant Utricularia Graminifolia and no matter what I tried, it would lift and float to the surface and disperse all around the tank. I see you have got  Utricularia Graminifolia in the foreground and it looks fairly stable, is it anchored with anything?

Cheers,
Steve


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## Pedro Rosa

REDSTEVEO said:


> Hi Pedro,
> Looking great so far!
> 
> Can I just ask what your opinion is on the difference between the Tropica Soil and Powder compared to the ADA Amazonia Soil and Powder?
> 
> I always found that the Amazonia powder was a bit too light weight to plant Utricularia Graminifolia and no matter what I tried, it would lift and float to the surface and disperse all around the tank. I see you have got  Utricularia Graminifolia in the foreground and it looks fairly stable, is it anchored with anything?



Steve, I like this soil. I used some powder at the top and planting was great.
Regarding UG, yes it's difficult 
First week i replanted 3 or 4 pieces... i think it stopped but if i have to put Amano Shrimps in there, they'll destroy it  (i hope not, din't expect diatoms)
If it wasn't on this powder soil i think that it would be much difficult.
But comparing this powder with aqua soil (for planting) i find no great differences.
Maybe the pinsettes? 

Pedro.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Some news...

Cryptocorine increased the melting but new leafs are also appearing. Something expected.
Eleocharis sp. is melting  ... something that i also saw before.
Yesterday i had to make some serious trimming on Myriophyllum mattogrossense because it was starting to make shadow to the neighbours... was afraid specially of Ludwigia Palustris that is growing very well but much lower.
Also trimmed HZ to make a good separation from Luwigia Palustris.

I suppose Steve make some kind of voodoo after yesterday reply . Yesterday night, when I arrived at home, i had 3 pieces of UG on top of the water... replanted and it's growing nicely but don't tell anyone just yet


----------



## oviparous

Very promising start!
Bet this one is going to be just as gorgeous as tour other scapes!


----------



## JamieB

Beautiful, Pedro. As always.

Just off topic slightly but what do you use to refill/empty your tank? The hose setup always looks interesting but I guess you have some sort of pump at the other end?


----------



## Marius_20

I love it Pedro. The tank is looking amazing and in 1 month it will look much better.

All the best


----------



## Pedro Rosa

JamieB said:


> Beautiful, Pedro. As always.
> Just off topic slightly but what do you use to refill/empty your tank? The hose setup always looks interesting but I guess you have some sort of pump at the other end?



I use a hose with that accessory you see at the end and on the other side just another accessory to connect it to the tap. To get the water out, I just suck it to the tub - gravity is a good pump when you can use it


----------



## JamieB

Very simple, do you just dose the entire tank with dechlorinater after that?


----------



## The_Iceman

Hi Pedro,

never noticed it before... what kind of LEDs are you using?
Looks like a FrankenLED created out of 4 ADA Aquasky lights?

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Edvet

Pedro Rosa said:


> I just suck it to the tub


You haven't kept aquaria if you haven't sucked up a large sip of tank water!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

JamieB said:


> Very simple, do you just dose the entire tank with dechlorinater after that?



Yes I use the amount described on the product i use at that time (have used some brands lately). Buttony when i have fish or shrimp. At this time i'm not using any dechlorinater.
I try to dose as i put water in.



The_Iceman said:


> Hi Pedro,
> never noticed it before... what kind of LEDs are you using?
> Looks like a FrankenLED created out of 4 ADA Aquasky lights?
> Cheers,
> Chris



Yes, it's something like that. They're 4x of them (MAS WAS not ADA) on a stand made by my local fish shop (Aquaeden). They're very good looking and i have very good results with them. 
I have some pictures of them from the previous aquarium.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Edvet said:


> You haven't kept aquaria if you haven't sucked up a large sip of tank water!



hehe, it's good to be understood


----------



## Edvet

Extra inspiration Pedro, link stolen from Steve:http://blog.extraplant.com/visit-to-the-netherlands.html


----------



## REDSTEVEO

Pedro Rosa said:


> I use a hose with that accessory you see at the end and on the other side just another accessory to connect it to the tap. To get the water out, I just suck it to the tub - gravity is a good pump when you can use it



So you are just using water straight out of the tap, add dechlorinator job done. No RO or HMA Filter?

Is your tap water really good quality?

Steve


----------



## srabin01

REDSTEVEO said:


> So you are just using water straight out of the tap, add dechlorinator job done. No RO or HMA Filter?
> 
> Is your tap water really good quality?
> 
> Steve


I was just about to ask this question..


----------



## Pedro Rosa

REDSTEVEO said:


> So you are just using water straight out of the tap, add dechlorinator job done. No RO or HMA Filter?
> Is your tap water really good quality?
> Steve



Yes, I never had any problems with the tap water. I don't remember exactly the parameters (i can test it if yo guys wish) but never had any problem. I use to share my journals and in all those journals i never used any RO water or water bought in supermarkets, etc.
I remember that in 2 tanks i used a product from Equo to bring the GH up a little but only that.

Am i lucky? What are the problems you have?

Pedro.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Edvet said:


> Extra inspiration Pedro, link stolen from Steve:http://blog.extraplant.com/visit-to-the-netherlands.html



Edvet, always showing something beautiful... I think i've seen some of those tanks before, I will never do that kind of "monster" beauty with only 300l, but it's a great inspiration.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Time for some updates.
Two posts: this one for two photo days over the week; the next one with the trimming of last sunday-

All plants are very well except for the melting of Eleocharis sp.

*Day 11*





Some _in situ_ photos:









Rotala Macandra - 1-2-grow!





Pogostemon Erecturs - 1-2-grow!





Two days later... keep on growing

*Day 13*

I had a translucid background that i took out so that a black background could bring out the colors.





Some details:

Limnophila hippuridoides





Ludwigia Palustris


----------



## Pedro Rosa

*Day 15*

*Trimming day!* 
I made very small trims before but this day i used the scissor a lot more.
Before the cutting and water change it was like this:





Some thoughts / ideas / methods... 

With only two weeks my main concern has been filling the gaps and at the same time having gaps between the different plants 
Obviously that the Myriophyllum mattogrossense was in an urgent need for trimming... and i've trimmed it before (just a small number of stems overgrowing Ludwigia Palustris). I made a huge trim on all stems. It was hiding some light from they neighbours! Will see how it'll be trimmed in the future but lots of work ahed!

I've been making very small trims in some plants: Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini', Pogostemon Helferi and Staurogyne Repens.
I've been cutting some small stems at the front and planted at the back so that it can fill the place quicker (or even in the middle if i needed).

Rotala Macandra I haven't touched it yet but i'm going to cut right on the substrate and replant when reach the needed height. This plant does not react well to cuttings (does not grow well after have been cut and creates another two stems).

For Limnophila hippuridoides, Heteranthera Zosterifolia, Bacopa caroliniana, I will trim around 1/3 of the higher stems on each trimming session. This should make it look good most of the times.

Murdannia Keijak can prove to be a little more difficult to use this method and i'll see how it will grow. It's branching very good!

So, after the trimming, this was the result (you can easily compare with the previous picture):



 

Another before/after trimming:

(before)


 

(after)


 

More pictures of after trimming:



 

Limnophila hippuridoides starting to have some colors:



 

Rotala Macandra (similar picture from the previous post):



 

Pedro.


----------



## alto

Thanks for the detailed update 

In an odd way I'm rather pleased about your _Eleocharis sp_ melt as I've yet to have any success with this plant, it seems to melt shortly after introduction to my tank, or slowly just disappears after seeming to not melt  - it's not available frequently so I'm waiting on a third attempt - it's rated "easy" by Tropica & it certainly seems so in it's "plant handling video"
Hopefully your plants get going in the next weeks.


----------



## tmiravent

Pedro Rosa said:


> Yes, I never had any problems with the tap water. I don't remember exactly the parameters (i can test it if yo guys wish) but never had any problem. I use to share my journals and in all those journals i never used any RO water or water bought in supermarkets, etc.
> I remember that in 2 tanks i used a product from Equo to bring the GH up a little but only that.
> 
> Am i lucky? What are the problems you have?
> 
> Pedro.



Pedro,
I think we're very lucky, our water is near 'perfect'. Believe it, or not, is better to drink than 'most' bottled water in the supermarkets!
Let's keep fingers cross and hope the same quality of supply in the next years.
cheers


----------



## tmiravent

Sorry Pedro,
I know you love to play with wood and rocks, but this one is my favorite!
I saw that you have a few extra space in the stand for a larger tank, maybe 150... that's tempting...
I also prefer the black background.
Nice cut, you must have lot's of fun trimming that one!
cheers


----------



## Pedro Rosa

tmiravent said:


> Sorry Pedro,
> I know you love to play with wood and rocks, but this one is my favorite!
> I saw that you have a few extra space in the stand for a larger tank, maybe 150... that's tempting...
> I also prefer the black background.
> Nice cut, you must have lot's of fun trimming that one!
> cheers



Thanks Tiago.

 What? Larger Aquarium? Why? What? 
A possibility but not for now... 

It's fun because i don't have any rocks and specially wood that makes the whole job difficult.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

First 40 fish arrived. Blame it on Flygja avatar for the choice  : Tetras Congo.
Still very white but they'll be much better on the next months. Lets see how they will grow.

For those that don't know the fish, here it is a photo from wikipedia and a video from Flygja post here on UKAPS (hope you don't mind). Mines are much smaller.





(flygja video)


----------



## Bacms

Good choice of fish I absolutely love those it is just a shame my local tap water is way too hard for them


----------



## BruceF

"at the same time having gaps"  I was looking at this and wondering the same thing this morning. I'll be interested in seeing the process of deciding who gets what space. 

Great tank!


----------



## Mikeymikemike

can't wait for the update!


----------



## rebel

It's like a dream where no imperfections exist.....


----------



## Pedro Rosa

BruceF said:


> "at the same time having gaps"  I was looking at this and wondering the same thing this morning. I'll be interested in seeing the process of deciding who gets what space.
> Great tank!



Bruce, yes, that's one of the challenges: keeping the plants on the right place (and with the right height).


----------



## srabin01

Pedro Rosa said:


> Yes, I never had any problems with the tap water. I don't remember exactly the parameters (i can test it if yo guys wish) but never had any problem. I use to share my journals and in all those journals i never used any RO water or water bought in supermarkets, etc.
> I remember that in 2 tanks i used a product from Equo to bring the GH up a little but only that.
> 
> Am i lucky? What are the problems you have?
> 
> Pedro.


Do you know what are your gh and kh?


----------



## parotet

Hi all

As far as I have seen in previous journals, Pedro has both a GH and KH between 8 and 10 (please Pedro correct me if I am wrong). This in my opinion is a very acceptable water. I can only achieve these values by mixing 1:1 rainwater and tap water. The question about water hardness and its suitability for planted tanks arises quite often in the forum. Even if there are excellent examples that demonstrates that you can grow whatever you want with whatever water, I try to avoid extreme hardness values (my tap water is 20-25dGH). 

Jordi


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## Clint Hewitt

Update please Pedro


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## LondonDragon

Clint Hewitt said:


> Update please Pedro


He is enjoying himself in Spain at the moment  lets see what a jungle he has when he gets back!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Thanks Paulo for the update.
Yes I was away since the beginning of the week and on Thursday I went to Spain to Iberzoo and Iberzoo Aquascaping where i personally met some great Masters of our hobby like
Long Tran Hoang (IAPLC Winner and lots of plates), Luca Galarraga (many plates), Fernando B. Francischelli, Juan Puchades, Albert Escrihuela , Adam Paszczela and other great spanish guys.
I saw workshops and talks where i learned a lot. I know very little about aquascape next to this guys 

Today they came to Portugal and we all went to Florestas Tropics where we had the first backstage visit ever (they told us).
Some hours later i still can't find any words to describe it... no words at all!

Great days. Great friends.

Pedro.


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## LondonDragon

I never got a backstage tour Pedro  lucky sod


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## Alexander Belchenko

I desperately want to know more about internals and what under the hood! Lucky you


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## Pedro Rosa

What i liked best was seeing the tank from the top. I can't describe the "monster beauty" that Amano have done.
It's amazing!!!


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## Pedro Rosa

BTW, I was at the fair and knew that Dark Land was #28 at EAPLC and my wabi kusa #5. Very happy!

Pedro.


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## alto

Congratulations & what an excellent holiday!


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## Edvet

(Pedro can you do a post and write about the tank or is it NDA)


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## Pedro Rosa

Edvet said:


> (Pedro can you do a post and write about the tank or is it NDA)



Edvet, the only NDA they asked us was for the charts and written info they had there (that's a work place and have schedules, etc).
But i tell you that after seeing the tank from above my mind was not on tubes or other technical stuff.
I have lots of photos and video. I must have some time to post them 

Pedro.


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## Bacms

Sounds awesome Pedro your ate indeed very lucky. I was there last month but didn't have the chance of going backstage. I did wonder how on earth they achieve filtration and CO2 filtration with such a small number of water entries. But don't blame for not thinking about that only when I got home I realised I only had taken a few pictures because I simply forgot to take them while skittering the beauty

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


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## Edvet

Pedro Rosa said:


> I must have some time to post them


Ah i can wait for ten minutes noproblemo


----------



## Iain Sutherland

If you have a look on Dave Chows facebook page there is a link to a lot of photos from Pedro's visit. Your a lucky man to see it all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## srabin01

Hello Pedro,
Can you please specify the kh and gh in the tank?
Respectfully, Rabin.


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## Clint Hewitt

Lets vote! who wants to see updated pictures of "
*Going Dutch by the book - tank sponsored by Tropica"*
 me!


----------



## Robert H. Tavera

Clint Hewitt said:


> Lets vote! who wants to see updated pictures of "
> *Going Dutch by the book - tank sponsored by Tropica"*
> me!


me too


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## rebel

Would love to see updates!


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## Dr.Phantom

This is going to be a beautiful planted tank, but I would rather call it a "Pseudo Dutch", it is far from a Dutch tank - too many rules of the Dutch tank are violated  It is not "by the book", sorry.

Again, it is a beautiful planted tank.


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## Pedro Rosa

Guys, will try to update today. I swear 



Dr.Phantom said:


> This is going to be a beautiful planted tank, but I would rather call it a "Pseudo Dutch", it is far from a Dutch tank - too many rules of the Dutch tank are violated  It is not "by the book", sorry.
> Again, it is a beautiful planted tank.



Can you specify?


----------



## Dr.Phantom

Pedro Rosa said:


> Can you specify?



I'll just comment on the few aspects:
1) for the tank of this size, there is too many plant species - 12 would be ideal, 13-14 would be O.K. (you have 16 something)
2) focal points are not well shaped, say, ludwigia is too much to the right, close to it is alternanthera (which is also red) - according to the rules of thirds, you've made two focal points at the same side of the tank, two reds one in fron of another. Crynum calamistratum is too much to the left, although it is a solitary plant and could make a good focal point (accordint to the rule of thirds). Also, there are too many red/coloured plants in the tank of this size - two would be more than enough, the rest of plants used could be of various shades of green. My opinion: there should be only two focal point oposit to each other. An example could be this:




3) what about the traditional "curtains" in the front corners? these are typical in the Dutch tanks that are made "by the book"
4) groups are not shaped very well and the borders between the groups are not very clear.
5) the side walls of the tank - the true Dutch tank is viewed only from the front side, etc. etc.

I'm not an expert in traditional Dutch aquascapes, but the points I've just mentioned are just a few violations of the Dutch tank rules, as far as I understand them


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## LondonDragon

Just have a look in this thread: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/crash-course-dutch-style-aquascaping.8713/


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## Robert H. Tavera

I think the tank is a dutch tank, yes it doesn't follows al the rules but the feeling stills there. Also I've seen many real dutch tanks with more than too red plants and in some cases like in willem's tank an althernantera is agaist the wall of the tank surrounded by higrophyla!! The curtains are nota a rule. 

40 Congo tetras!! That seems too much for me but.. Lets see how they look. Ir seems yo me  rummynoses are the most used in dutch tanks. 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Dr.Phantom

That's the point - it DOES NOT FOLLOW ALL the rules. Then what's the reason in saying, that the author goes Dutch "by the book", which means "following the rules and instructions in a very strict way". Moreover, I do not understand one point: why should we call a planted tank a Dutch tank, if it is not. It's just a planted tank, as the rules of the true Dutch are not followed. So let's call a "spade" a spade 
Robert H. Tavera, In most of the NBAT A1 category tanks the "curtains" are present and this is the rule in the classical Dutch tank as they create a feeling of depth.


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## Dr.Phantom

http://www.daniorerio.nl/terugblik/district keuring ZHN 2013.pdf


----------



## alto

Dr.Phantom said:


> *In most of the NBAT A1 category tanks the "curtains" are present* and this is the rule in the classical Dutch tank as they create a feeling of depth.


This begins to sound more like a convention than a "_rule_" - if it were an actual rule, how could any tanks without the _curtains_ be present, they would be disallowed 

Do you have links to 2014/2015 winners?


----------



## Dr.Phantom

*alto,*
Thank, "convention" seems to be a better word. Sorry, I am not a native speaker of Eglish  
As for the links to 2014/15 winners, I'm affraid I don't have them. I've come across 2013 winners by chance


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Well, I've been caught by the _Dutch Tank Police_. Help me    I thought i could get away with this topic, but no 

No for something serious 

Yes, I know about those "problems" and you could also know that i know if you read the first post.
And I even wrote "Thank God that i don’t need to comply with some contest rules!"... things like the one you mentioned about the plants on the sides are more important for the contests and you can see many tanks almost without it. And yes, this is a Dutch Tank that does' t follow a few conventions but it's a NEW TANK! Please go easy because it's growing.

Most important: 1) this is a learning process for me (sorry, i'm in it for the hobby, not a professional!) and most important 2) you should know that a dutch tank just keeps on changing, mainly when you're not happy with it or if you really want tp maintain the rules and make the changes accordingly.
You commented on a tank with pictures from the fist 2 or 3 weeks. You have to think about that. The tank is not mature. The plant groups are not shaped, plants can change, etc... Dutch is about trimming, replanting, changing plant, etc.

Having said that, I'm really not a specialist on Dutch Tank, but I read about them on many good sources, some of them i quoted and Paulo repeated the quote for one of them.
Although not a specialist, this tank is getting attention for Dutch Tanks again, and for that i'm proud! At least in Portugal where i was invited to give a workshop with theory and planting of a Dutch Tank yestarday.



Dr.Phantom said:


> I'll just comment on the few aspects:
> 1) for the tank of this size, there is too many plant species - 12 would be ideal, 13-14 would be O.K. (you have 16 something)



My first post: "The rule of one plant for each 10 cm (with ~50 cm depth) should be respected. Could have more, but not for much." So I know!
But what really was funny about your advice is that you write on your topic that are making a Dutch by the book with 13 species on a 1m tank!!! You and me have more 30% of plants... exactly!  



Dr.Phantom said:


> 2) focal points are not well shaped, say, ludwigia is too much to the right, close to it is alternanthera (which is also red) - according to the rules of thirds, you've made two focal points at the same side of the tank, two reds one in fron of another.



I know about the Ludwigia / Althernathera. I wrote: "*Focal point: *Rotala Macrandra and Ludwigia Palustris… red althernathera at the front can lead to Ludwigia at the back but this can also collide with the rule of two color plants next to each other (although they’re separated by Flame Moss) -> Opinions?"



Dr.Phantom said:


> Crynum calamistratum is too much to the left, although it is a solitary plant and could make a good focal point (accordint to the rule of thirds).



But Crynum is at the right to make that curtain you mentioned before!!! It's not to by a solitary plant.



Dr.Phantom said:


> Also, there are too many red/coloured plants in the tank of this size - two would be more than enough, the rest of plants used could be of various shades of green. My opinion: there should be only two focal point oposit to each other. An example could be this:



Yes, i know. I wrote: "- I'm seeing up to 4 strong colors in some well known dutchs, but they're 1,40m or 1,60m... so i could have a problem because i have four also on 1,20m", so i know that.
Funny you haven't used you suggestion also on you tank for the Focal Points (bottom third / upper third) 



Dr.Phantom said:


> 3) what about the traditional "curtains" in the front corners? these are typical in the Dutch tanks that are made "by the book"
> 4) groups are not shaped very well and the borders between the groups are not very clear.
> 5) the side walls of the tank - the true Dutch tank is viewed only from the front side, etc. etc.



This is a 6 week tank. In here you have only pictures form the first 2 or 3 weeks. You're saying that groups are not shaped? really? ... of course!!!

Thank you very much for the time taken to analyse it and for the suggestions. Let's keep on getting the tank better and better.


----------



## Dr.Phantom

Pedro Rosa said:


> But Crynum is at the right to make that curtain you mentioned before!!! It's not to by a solitary plant.
> 
> Funny you haven't used you suggestion also on you tank for the Focal Points (bottom third / upper third)
> .




Crynum is not a very good choice for the "curtain"  But it is your choice.

For the upper focal point I have ludwigia glandulosa and echinodorus lena (in front of rotala) for the opposite bottom focal point (though it is still too young and has not yet reached its full size).

PEACE!

As a fan of Dutch scapes I just wanted a good discussion and that's it. No offence. 

P.S. My tank is about 8 weeks after the restart, just a bit older than yours


----------



## Tim Harrison

Semantics and competition rules aside I dunno what all the fuss is about...
What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
It's a cracking tank whatever...


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## Pedro Rosa

Time for an update...

*Day 22* - Needing a trim.





*Day 24* - Small trim.





*Day 30* - I was away for a week!!!! It's not a Dutch, it's a jungle 





*Day 36* - Trimmed but i'm still letting plant grow... will certainly start trimming to get the "Dutch feeling" on the next two weeks.





What went wrong? Eleocharis sp. and UG melted. I replanted a small amount of UG from a Wabi Kusa...
After I've trimmed the "jungle" look, water started to get "white"... never had it. It's certainly a filter issue. Made a small clean and it's still the same. I'll wait.



Robert H. Tavera said:


> 40 Congo tetras!! That seems too much for me but.. Lets see how they look. Ir seems yo me  rummynoses are the most used in dutch tanks.
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk



Yes, maybe, but there are still young (started with 3 - 4 cm) and growing. I'm seeing the orange starting to appear. In one or two months i will know if they are many.

Pedro.


----------



## akwarybka

What a stunner, can't wait to see how it will look in a month. Well done!

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


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## rebel

Very nice growth.

Do you find that the reds are rendered pleasantly with those lights? In the photos, the reds look slightly brown. How would you compare the effect to the T5HO fiji purple sort of color?


----------



## Greenfinger2

Wonderful


----------



## BruceF

How do you get growth like that?


----------



## Pedro Rosa

rebel said:


> Do you find that the reds are rendered pleasantly with those lights? In the photos, the reds look slightly brown. How would you compare the effect to the T5HO fiji purple sort of color?



Yes, I see no difference and i've been comparing to other aquariums (mainly Ludwigia Palustris) with T5 or other good led solutions.
Macandra I honestly have never seen another one so healthy and with such a good growth and regrowth after trimming.

Pedro.


----------



## rebel

BruceF said:


> How do you get growth like that?


You gotta have green thumbs my friend.... [ looks at his own thumbs and realises that they are not green ]


----------



## Pedro Rosa

BruceF said:


> How do you get growth like that?





rebel said:


> You gotta have green thumbs my friend.... [ looks at his own thumbs and realises that they are not green ]



They're Tropica plants so just put them underwater 
Joking apart, I think i have good lighting, good soil and i'm not saving on fertilization. Now i'm doing two large water changes weekly but hoping to make only one. I still have cloudy water... the first time since have aquariums. It's a filter issue... probably the last time i'll use this Eheim 2073 on this aquarium size  It'll probably be on the 60P next time, where i have Ecco Pro 3030 that is also weak for 60l with lots of hardscape.
I was asked before about water changes: I'm now using Equo Diamante conditioner for water changer. 

Pedro.


----------



## LondonDragon

Pedro Rosa said:


> They're Tropica plants so just put them underwater


Does give you an advantage, when I first started my local store sold Tropica and I didn't even know anything about it and always had good success, but at the end of the day you need to keep on top of maintenance and get the balance right with the CO2, flow and dosing.


----------



## Antoni

Hi Pedro, lovely Dutch! Could the cloudy water be due to a green water issue or a bacterial bloom?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Pedro Rosa

Antoni said:


> Hi Pedro, lovely Dutch! Could the cloudy water be due to a green water issue or a bacterial bloom?



Antoni, I can only explain this with a bacterial bloom of Heterotrophic Bacteria. The reason i really don't know and can only be explained by filter issues or some set of issues.
Like i said before my filter is not as strong/big as it should be, but never had any problems after being cycled. However, the entering of fish some one or two weeks before and the long maintenance i made on the day i arrived (for trimming) probably affected the filter. It was stopped for 2 or 3 hours. Maybe i should have emptied all the water but it was not the first time i made such a long maintenance!
The lack of maintenance to the aquarium is not a reason for the bloom (there are no dead fish, no overfeeding nor excessive dead leafs).

The word for aquariums is patience  And every thing is growing very good and fish are healthy and zero death.
Yesterday night i took a glass of water for testing but had many tests from my students to correct and never did it  Must do it!

I have an air pump at night for 6 hours since the entering of the fish. I've been doing night aeration for 2 or 3 setups with excellent results for fish healthy and top of the water film.

Pedro.


----------



## rebel

Pedro do you mean an 'air pump' rather than water pump? I have heard of people doing that.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

rebel said:


> Pedro do you mean an 'air pump' rather than water pump? I have heard of people doing that.



Thanks Rebel  Of course... I corrected the message.
ADA Gallery makes this every night by lifting all Lilly Pipes. At home lifting Lilly Pipes from two aquariums should be a really nice way to keep everyone awake


----------



## Clint Hewitt

Pedro Rosa said:


> Antoni, I can only explain this with a bacterial bloom of Heterotrophic Bacteria. The reason i really don't know and can only be explained by filter issues or some set of issues.
> Like i said before my filter is not as strong/big as it should be, but never had any problems after being cycled. However, the entering of fish some one or two weeks before and the long maintenance i made on the day i arrived (for trimming) probably affected the filter. It was stopped for 2 or 3 hours. Maybe i should have emptied all the water but it was not the first time i made such a long maintenance!
> The lack of maintenance to the aquarium is not a reason for the bloom (there are no dead fish, no overfeeding nor excessive dead leafs).
> 
> The word for aquariums is patience  And every thing is growing very good and fish are healthy and zero death.
> Yesterday night i took a glass of water for testing but had many tests from my students to correct and never did it  Must do it!
> 
> I have an air pump at night for 6 hours since the entering of the fish. I've been doing night aeration for 2 or 3 setups with excellent results for fish healthy and top of the water film.
> 
> Pedro.


I wonder if a weak to mild dose of H2O2 would help....Tank is looking fantastic.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Clint Hewitt said:


> I wonder if a weak to mild dose of H2O2 would help....Tank is looking fantastic.



It's not algae... and i have some doubts about H2O2 in tanks! If on hardscape to clean some BBA, etc, ok, but in water... it can be dangerous.

Pedro.


----------



## LondonDragon

Pedro Rosa said:


> etc, ok, but in water... it can be dangerous.


This fish will not appreciate it and even worse for the inverts


----------



## fleetEWD

very clean lines


----------



## Antoni

Yep..could be many reasons combined that brought the bacterial bloom...Hopefully with regular maintenance and patience (or UV) the problem will be solved. H2O2 - I wouldn't recommend it. Happened that I killed some fish and shrimps with it in the past...


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Arrive at home and it seems to be clearing...


----------



## rebel

The best treatment for cloudy water is to just wait it out....


----------



## flygja

Pedro Rosa said:


> First 40 fish arrived. Blame it on Flygja avatar for the choice  : Tetras Congo.
> Still very white but they'll be much better on the next months. Lets see how they will grow.
> 
> For those that don't know the fish, here it is a photo from wikipedia and a video from Flygja post here on UKAPS (hope you don't mind). Mines are much smaller.



Not a problem. I really love congo tetras. I had a few jump from my open-topped 120cm tank though, so be careful of that. Here's the larger sized pic of my avatar and an extra one. Hope you don't mind.









Tank is looking great! Still a lot of shaping to go, right now all the "streets" of plants are looking a bit too artificial but you will be able to trim them out. From what I understand of dutch-style tanks, there should be streets, columns, round balls, etc.


----------



## Robert H. Tavera

really beautiful fish, congratulations !!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

flygja said:


> Tank is looking great! Still a lot of shaping to go, right now all the "streets" of plants are looking a bit too artificial but you will be able to trim them out. From what I understand of dutch-style tanks, there should be streets, columns, round balls, etc.



About the fish, yes i fond 3 or 4 on the floor on the last month. They're still very different from those beautiful photos but colors are starting to show.
It's my first Dutch so I believe that it'll not be a "work of art"  I will try to make something good!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Time for some updates…

*DAY 39*

Last time i updated (a few weeks ago) i was having an issue with the water. That was fixed by its own in one and a half week and water came back to the usual crystal clear.
These two first shots are still from that time.





*DAY 41*





*DAY 49*

With nice water i was able to get some good pictures of the plant colors. Still letting plants grow and trimming 2x a week.



 

I’m very glad with the Rotana Macandra color and growth rate. Lovely plant! Trimming it low and replanting gives very good results.



 


 


 


 


 


 


*DAY 56*

Seven days later (and no trim at the middle of the week) and it was almost a dutch-jungle-type 



 

A good view of the Macandra (again).



 

Good colors for the Ludwigia Palustris.



 

Great plant - Limnophila hippuridoides



 

The “not so used outside the dutch type” Lobelia Cardinalis, now with nice light green.



 

Bacopa is also getting very good tops/colors.



 
After the initial melt, Cryptocoryne is getting lovely.



 

The first pictures of “Congo Tetras”. They were very young when they came and with no colors. The body shape and the orange and blue colors are starting to appear in some of them. I hope they continue to grow like this. I’m giving them bloodworms two times a week.



 


 


 


*DAY 57*

The next day the jungle had gone. This picture looks very symmetric - same high for all plants and plant groups are not still to be better shaped but i think it’s better then before.



 

A couple more shots of Congo Tetras.


----------



## a.aurel

the most beautiful Dutch setup I ever seen. Those plants seem drawn from a painting!


----------



## LondonDragon

Stunning Predo, belo trabalho 

This is turning out to be a great Ducth aquascape  my kind of tank!


----------



## aaron.c

Attachments are not working for day 49 onwards 

IGNORE: working now 

Stunning 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dantrasy

Beautiful, simply beautiful! 

Can you tell us your trimming method? For example, when you trim r. macrandra I still see nice tips, no scissor cuts. Do you pull the stem, cut mid-way and re-plant?


----------



## Pedro Rosa

aaron.c said:


> Attachments are not working for day 49 onwards
> IGNORE: working now
> Stunning



Yes, I had some problems with editing the messages for changing the pictures size ... and them "something" happened. Thank God we have Paulo on the job 24 hours


----------



## flygja

Looking superb!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Dantrasy said:


> Beautiful, simply beautiful!
> Can you tell us your trimming method? For example, when you trim r. macrandra I still see nice tips, no scissor cuts. Do you pull the stem, cut mid-way and re-plant?



Depends on the plant. Some weeks ago (at the start) i wrote what i was thinking in doing:



> Rotala Macandra I haven't touched it yet but i'm going to cut right on the substrate and replant when reach the needed height. This plant does not react well to cuttings (does not grow well after have been cut and creates another two stems).
> For Limnophila hippuridoides, Heteranthera Zosterifolia, Bacopa caroliniana, I will trim around 1/3 of the higher stems on each trimming session. This should make it look good most of the times.
> Murdannia Keijak can prove to be a little more difficult to use this method and i'll see how it will grow. It's branching very good!



For Macandra i'm doing a mix of what i wrote (cut down and replant -> best way to get an healthy plant) and at the back (hidden) i cut where light can still reach the stem so it can branch. I know that it's a (kind of) difficult plant to maintain healthy but this one have great colors.

Pedro.


----------



## Bacms

I am still impressed with the growth rates you get on this tank. It is looking more beautiful with every cut


----------



## Mark Green

Your making this hobby look really easy

Loving the health and colours, nice work


----------



## banthaman.jm

simply stunning 
Jim


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Some updates… starting 15 days after the last ones.
I'm probably starting to repeat some type os photos... sorry.

I’m very happy with the health of the tank. Completely clean from algae with no need for water changes or other type of maintenance besides the 50% water change at sundays.
Maintenance is around 3 hours (mainly trimming and replanting, but includes water change).
Even the glass stays clean from sunday to sunday.
Fish are happy and 0 deaths.

A large quantity of plants, good fertilisation and a good schedule of maintenances are paying!
I also believe that, for the fish health and top of the water surface, the small air pump and good air diffuser (~5 hours at night) are also contributing.

It’s obvious that i wouldn’t say badly about Tropica products (Soil, ferts and plants) in this topic, but i’m really very happy with this only-tropica tank and the way is going. Couldn’t say better things  for the “complete Tropica pack” and it’s the first time with the soil.

Regarding the layout… there are some things i would like to improve, like the Rotana Macandra “road” and i should have chosen a larger Cryptocoryne.
I suppose that for a “small” Dutch (120x50cm) the depth and appearance are not very bad.

Some infos:
1) Montecarlo it at the middle/foreground;
2) Eleocharis sp. and UG are out;
3) Ciperus are at the right side/wall; 
4) Crinun was partially changed to go more to the left/wall (it’s now growing very well and it’s easily seen at the last photos);
5) Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis 53B' entered behind Bacopa and in front of Myriophyllum let’s wait for some large leafs to appear;
6) 1 - 3 cm of substrate at the front and keep trying to get some nice borders between the plants (difficult with the mad growing).
7) 20 new Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra

Day 70:






Details of the new Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra:

















Some details of plants:





Really in love with Lobelia. It's there for such a long time and it's the first time i use it:





Staurogyne Repens and CO2 bubbles...





Congo Tetras are mainly at the middle/top and Ornatus white fin Tetra at the bottom:





Day 71:

















Some underwater lettuce  (love this photo!)





The bad guys...

















Day 77:













Day 78:





Day 80:









Bacopa:





Day 84:





I’ll now prepare a trim for a video (and photo) shooting without equipment for the 3 months milestone.

Pedro.


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Incredible tank!


----------



## Luís Cardoso

Great work Pedro.


----------



## tmiravent

Pedro, amazing! 
But not completed surprised with your success, i was waiting for something in this level! 
Really inspiring, make me thinking in a small Dutch also... 
The plants are amazing, very nice choice for the fish! 
The UG doesn't want nothing with you!  But is not bad, i think in the end you would find it too small for the layout.
You must have lot's of fun cutting that one! Never tried lobelia, nice plant!
IMO your best tank ever!  
cheers


----------



## Bacms

Truly beautiful Pedro love the health of the plants


----------



## flygja

Beeeeeaautiful!


----------



## LondonDragon

Nice work Pedro, what is your current photo and CO2 period?

Also what is the current fert regime? 

Obrigado e excelente trabalho


----------



## Pedro Rosa

tmiravent said:


> Pedro, amazing!
> But not completed surprised with your success, i was waiting for something in this level!
> Really inspiring, make me thinking in a small Dutch also...
> The plants are amazing, very nice choice for the fish!
> The UG doesn't want nothing with you!  But is not bad, i think in the end you would find it too small for the layout.
> You must have lot's of fun cutting that one! Never tried lobelia, nice plant!
> IMO your best tank ever!
> cheers



Thanks Tiago. Yes I'm loving Lobelia and Montecarlo is lovely at the UG place 



LondonDragon said:


> Nice work Pedro, what is your current photo and CO2 period?
> 
> Also what is the current fert regime?
> 
> Obrigado e excelente trabalho



Thanks Paulo.
7 hours of light daily. One more hour at the weekend (mainly for me/family, not for the plants  but like nature they are sunny days ).
Don't remember if it's 7,5 or 8 hours of CO2 (don't know it it's 1,5 or 2 hours before the lights - off 1h before lights of off).
30 ml Tropica daily, every day. One 50% water change weekly (sunday). Zero maintenance ate weekdays (only ferts and food for fish).

Pedro.


----------



## AAngel

Absolutely stunning Pedro!


----------



## Martin in Holland

Just perfect.....


----------



## Nelson

Any update ?.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Yes, it's definitely time for some updates.
Everything is going very well. Just had some problems with Crinum Calamistratum but i think that it's now recovering.
These three first photos are from a week ago - i made a huge trim since then.
The other photos are from December.













Some details...


----------



## BruceF

Lots of skill there....Nicely done Pedro.


----------



## jag51186

I'm so impressed with this! Very well done!


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Beautiful, simply beautiful. Amazing work, Pedro!


----------



## Nelson

Stunning .


----------



## Wisey

You had more growth in your first 8 days than I had in my first 8 months! This is a stunning aquarium! Love it


----------



## LondonDragon

Featured on FB Gallery again


----------



## paradunga

Dunga
www.quase9.com.br


----------



## David fernandes

Hello

d all just wonderful first! bravo!

I just want a summary of plants that there are today in your aquarium , so of course this does not bother you . thank you in advance.


----------



## Wizard_g

Wow!!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Wisey said:


> You had more growth in your first 8 days than I had in my first 8 months! This is a stunning aquarium! Love it



 If you buy plants on a store and they are good, you should always have a nice grow at the start.



LondonDragon said:


> Featured on FB Gallery again







David fernandes said:


> I just want a summary of plants that there are today in your aquarium , so of course this does not bother you . thank you in advance.



David: 
Back, from the left: Murdannia Keijak, Rotala Macrandra, Pogostemon Erectus, Limnophila hippuridoides, Myriophyllum mattogrossense, Ludwigia Palustris, Heteranthera Zosterifolia
Middle, from the left: Crinum calamistratum, Cryptocoryne Petchi, Lobelia Cardinals, Bacopa carolinians, Hygrophila 'Siamensis 53B' 
Front, from the left: Staurogyne Repens, Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo', Pogostemon Helferi, Cyperus helferi

Pedro.


----------



## David fernandes

Muito obrigado pela sua resposta Pedro


----------



## aaron.c

Stunning!! I can not get my head round how some of us have such terrible issues with CO2 and goto extreme lengths and Pedro you get away with a single diffuser in the tank.

I call witch craft 

Keep up the amazing work


----------



## rodoselada

a lot of like Pedro!

follow you work on all channels


----------



## Pedro Rosa

aaron.c said:


> Stunning!! I can not get my head round how some of us have such terrible issues with CO2 and goto extreme lengths and Pedro you get away with a single diffuser in the tank.
> I call witch craft
> Keep up the amazing work



Ah ah ah, maybe i use some kind of voodoo for my aquariums 
Nothing like that! Maybe it's luck...



rodoselada said:


> a lot of like Pedro!
> follow you work on all channels



Thanks!


----------



## Mick.Dk

Pedro Rosa said:


> Ah ah ah, maybe i use some kind of voodoo for my aquariums
> Nothing like that! Maybe it's luck...
> .........or maybe - just maybe -  actual  SKILLS  are involved........(just a thought)


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Thanks Mick 
I'm having fun with this aquarium. More then I thought. Everyone was telling me that this was a huge work but, for now, I'm willing to sacrifice myself 

Pedro.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Some details... completely algae free tank. Has been another easy one!
(a new plant somewhere...)


----------



## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> I’ll now prepare a trim for a video (and photo) shooting without equipment for the 3 months milestone.


do we get to see this video sometime? 

I'd love to see a video of the trim & tank maintenance,  followed by tank regrowth 
- a big video project but one I think you are very capable of 

What livestock are in the tank now?


----------



## spyder

Love it. 

I'm planning a rescape next week so I was looking for journals with the Dutch style twist. I only have a 125l tank to fill so will be restricted. I'm not bothered about conforming to the strict guidelines but will trying to follow the basic planting rules.

Is this scape still up and running? If it is I'd like to see a recent pic.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> do we get to see this video sometime?
> I'd love to see a video of the trim & tank maintenance,  followed by tank regrowth
> - a big video project but one I think you are very capable of
> What livestock are in the tank now?



Video will follow shortly. It's almost done. I only want to take some more images from 6 - 7 month lifetime.
I've got Congo Tetras, White Fin Tetras and Santa Filomena Tetras.
... and I must say i'm having some troubles with the Congo Tetras because they started to like some plants. This is the worst to happen on a planted tank (algae we can control, hungry/vegetarian fish not really). I increases the daily food and it's "controlled" but i'll take more then a half of them soon.



spyder said:


> Love it.
> I'm planning a rescape next week so I was looking for journals with the Dutch style twist. I only have a 125l tank to fill so will be restricted. I'm not bothered about conforming to the strict guidelines but will trying to follow the basic planting rules.
> Is this scape still up and running? If it is I'd like to see a recent pic.



Spyder, the photos are from last weeks. The last photos are from last week.
But yes, i'll update it soon.

Pedro.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Stunning  pedro. 
Congos do that, they used to eat almost ever new anubia leaf in my African tank. Very annoying.  This doesn't look any the worst for it though, no doubt you grow it quicker than they can eat it!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


----------



## Paulus

Great tank, healthy plants and perfect photos


----------



## Aqua360

Pedro Rosa said:


> Some updates… starting 15 days after the last ones.
> I'm probably starting to repeat some type os photos... sorry.
> 
> I’m very happy with the health of the tank. Completely clean from algae with no need for water changes or other type of maintenance besides the 50% water change at sundays.
> Maintenance is around 3 hours (mainly trimming and replanting, but includes water change).
> Even the glass stays clean from sunday to sunday.
> Fish are happy and 0 deaths.
> 
> A large quantity of plants, good fertilisation and a good schedule of maintenances are paying!
> I also believe that, for the fish health and top of the water surface, the small air pump and good air diffuser (~5 hours at night) are also contributing.
> 
> It’s obvious that i wouldn’t say badly about Tropica products (Soil, ferts and plants) in this topic, but i’m really very happy with this only-tropica tank and the way is going. Couldn’t say better things  for the “complete Tropica pack” and it’s the first time with the soil.
> 
> Regarding the layout… there are some things i would like to improve, like the Rotana Macandra “road” and i should have chosen a larger Cryptocoryne.
> I suppose that for a “small” Dutch (120x50cm) the depth and appearance are not very bad.
> 
> Some infos:
> 1) Montecarlo it at the middle/foreground;
> 2) Eleocharis sp. and UG are out;
> 3) Ciperus are at the right side/wall;
> 4) Crinun was partially changed to go more to the left/wall (it’s now growing very well and it’s easily seen at the last photos);
> 5) Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis 53B' entered behind Bacopa and in front of Myriophyllum let’s wait for some large leafs to appear;
> 6) 1 - 3 cm of substrate at the front and keep trying to get some nice borders between the plants (difficult with the mad growing).
> 7) 20 new Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra
> 
> Day 70:
> 
> View attachment 79162
> 
> Details of the new Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra:
> 
> View attachment 79163
> 
> View attachment 79164
> 
> View attachment 79165
> 
> View attachment 79166
> 
> Some details of plants:
> 
> View attachment 79167
> 
> Really in love with Lobelia. It's there for such a long time and it's the first time i use it:
> 
> View attachment 79168
> 
> Staurogyne Repens and CO2 bubbles...
> 
> View attachment 79169
> 
> Congo Tetras are mainly at the middle/top and Ornatus white fin Tetra at the bottom:
> 
> View attachment 79170
> 
> Day 71:
> 
> View attachment 79171
> 
> View attachment 79172
> 
> View attachment 79173
> 
> View attachment 79174
> 
> Some underwater lettuce  (love this photo!)
> 
> View attachment 79175
> 
> The bad guys...
> 
> View attachment 79176
> 
> View attachment 79177
> 
> View attachment 79178
> 
> View attachment 79179
> 
> Day 77:
> 
> View attachment 79180
> 
> View attachment 79181
> 
> View attachment 79182
> 
> Day 78:
> 
> View attachment 79183
> 
> Day 80:
> 
> View attachment 79184
> 
> View attachment 79185
> 
> Bacopa:
> 
> View attachment 79186
> 
> Day 84:
> 
> View attachment 79187
> 
> I’ll now prepare a trim for a video (and photo) shooting without equipment for the 3 months milestone.
> 
> Pedro.




looks fantastic, hope I can aspire to reach this someday!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Iain Sutherland said:


> Stunning  pedro.
> Congos do that, they used to eat almost ever new anubia leaf in my African tank. Very annoying.  This doesn't look any the worst for it though, no doubt you grow it quicker than they can eat it!



It grows but for 4 or 5 months they were very quite. I suppose they're growing and needing more food


----------



## Tim Harrison

Looking fantastic...


----------



## Godween

I read this thread. I am stunned by the condition of plants and plant layout. Well ... this is Pedro! Congratulations! 
How many lumens to light?
Godween


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Hi there,

A few days agora i took a few pictures and shared on FB. Forgot to post them here 
Well, here they are...


Day 227, a trimmed tank 




 

... and now for "Something Completely Different": a non-trimmed tank 



 

... and some details:



 



 

Enjoy.


----------



## fandango

beautiful tank! Both trimmed and not!


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Non-trimmed is great and so.. full!


----------



## BBogdan

I like it more non-trimmed  , such beautiful colours !


----------



## rebel

Thanks for the non-trimmed version! Good for us newbies to see how much it takes to create and maintain this sort of scape!


----------



## Martin in Holland

It's a jewel of a scape....wonderful


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Thanks guys. 
I should return to "aquascaping" but i'm thinking in changing a few things before taking it down!

Pedro.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

... I don't know exactly when but a video of the lifetime of the aquarium (since day 0) should come in the near future! 

Pedro.


----------



## Luís Cardoso

Masterpiece...


----------



## tmiravent

i like the jungle style! amazing!

Enviado do meu B1-750 através de Tapatalk


----------



## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> ... I don't know exactly when but a video of the lifetime of the aquarium (since day 0) should come in the near future!
> 
> Pedro.



A reminder of previous request 
- I'm not consistent enough with trimming (nor knowledgeable enough   ), it would be great to see video detail



alto said:


> I'd love to see a video of the trim & tank maintenance,  followed by tank regrowth




PS did the Congo's get to stay or did you manage to remove them without plant destruction


----------



## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> A reminder of previous request
> - I'm not consistent enough with trimming (nor knowledgeable enough   ), it would be great to see video detail



It's there 



alto said:


> PS did the Congo's get to stay or did you manage to remove them without plant destruction



Still there. Very difficult to catch


----------



## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> It's there



    





> Still there. Very difficult to catch


sympathies 
I had green neons (wild) in a planted tank, finally stripped the tank down to remove the incredibly predator wary, incredibly clever green neons 
OTOH I really like the new scape


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Just seen a video about your tank on Tropica youtube channel. Great video of great tank!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Thanks Alexander 
Well, here it goes:



A video of this Aquarium from the creation to day two hundred and something  ... the lifetime of a Dutch.

Enjoy.

Pedro.


----------



## BBogdan

Just stunning !


----------



## tmiravent

High class work Pedro!
Well done,
cheers


----------



## Robert H. Tavera

I like the aquascape but been honest I think it can improve. The green plants are the same shade of lime green, also you can use different leaf shapes and sizes. I will suggest before shooting it down to change some plants, maybe add some temple plant and/or echinodorus reni. More leaf contrast will upgrade this tank from good to stunning!

Good work!


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Robert H. Tavera said:


> I like the aquascape but been honest I think it can improve. The green plants are the same shade of lime green, also you can use different leaf shapes and sizes. I will suggest before shooting it down to change some plants, maybe add some temple plant and/or echinodorus reni. More leaf contrast will upgrade this tank from good to stunning!



Robert, you're probably right. The final layout, in the video, already had some larger leaf plants and yes, i'm still working on that.

Pedro.


----------



## Robert H. Tavera

Yes I saw a lotus plant in there.. It's a very good aquarium. I can't wait to see it perfect. I know you can do it ! 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Adam Chambers

Hi there, I was provided a link in my post about new tank setup I am just starting and am really glad to have seen this lovely tank and setup. You have done a brilliant job with this tank so thank you for sharing.

I have a few quick questions that I hope you can help with. In regards to the Tropica Aquasoil & Powder. Can I confirm the quantity that you have used, my tank is slightly larger 1500x60x55 (LxWxH) and so need to work out costings of using the Aquasoil & Powder.

Have you found any issues with this combination? Is there anything you would do differently now? I am also just wanting to confirm which liquid ferts you are using and your daily dose/quantity? Again just want to ballpark figures so I can at least get some on order accordingly.

Kind Regards,

Adam


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Hi Adam,

I think i used around 30l of soil (maybe a little more then 30l). This is a no hardscape tank so the ground is all covered and less high at the front. You should adapt accordingly yo your needs.
I used only Tropica Specialised fertiliser. It changed a bit the weekly dose (divided by all days) and it went from around 60ml (beginning and after large trims) to more then 120 ml. This tank have a huge amount plants. Again you should adapt accordingly.

Pedro.


----------



## Adam Chambers

Hey Pedro,

Thank you for the detailed reply. That is handy to know and gives me some ball park figures to work from with my plans.

It appears you only used/dosed Tropica Specialised Fertiliser and did not use the Premium that Tropica do? Will this along with lighting & CO2 generally be correct that I wouldn't have to look at adding anything else? Again only a general rule of thumb from your experience. 

I am looking at having quite a heavily planted scape but with some hardscape too. Do you find it easier to start with smaller doses and work up to get the right balance rather than dosing high and working back? 

I assume a lot of the figures you use are from experience of course but just thoughts on this are always good to hear/read and adapt as needed.

Kind Regards,

Adam


----------



## Tim Harrison

Magnificent...and great video; I somehow missed it until now.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Adam,



Adam Chambers said:


> It appears you only used/dosed Tropica Specialised Fertiliser and did not use the Premium that Tropica do? Will this along with lighting & CO2 generally be correct that I wouldn't have to look at adding anything else? Again only a general rule of thumb from your experience.
> I am looking at having quite a heavily planted scape but with some hardscape too. Do you find it easier to start with smaller doses and work up to get the right balance rather than dosing high and working back?
> I assume a lot of the figures you use are from experience of course but just thoughts on this are always good to hear/read and adapt as needed.



Yes, i only used Specialised because it contains not only micros but also some macros. This is more a planted aquarium then a fish aquarium, so i needed a source for macros that usually come from fish. Specialised also have micros so no need for Premium.
I started with smaller doses because there was almost no plants (they were pretty small!). They grew and i needed to give them some more. Just like kids 
One important note: you must fertilise from day one specially if you use 1-2-grow plants because they are smaller plants and the nutrient reserves they have are much smaller.

You should start with the dose on the bootle and add more as you need. Of course experience is a lot of help 

Pedro.


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## Pedro Rosa

This is far from a contest (IAPLC) aquarium so #1102

Pedro.


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## rebel

Nice work man. Such healthy plants!


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## Alexander Belchenko

This year rankings are really weird for me. I gave up to understand it and just try to take em easy.


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## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> This is far from a contest (IAPLC) aquarium so #1102


Deserved much higher of course as health of plants is outstanding but then that has always been the refrain of IAPLC voting/ranking 

- there are always some (a surprising number if I'm entirely honest) in the top 100 that I perceive as engineering masterpieces, but planted tanks, not so much ... IAPLC top placement has evolved in a direction that is ....... _interesting_


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## alto

Is this tank still running?


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## Adam Chambers

Pedro Rosa said:


> Adam,
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, i only used Specialised because it contains not only micros but also some macros. This is more a planted aquarium then a fish aquarium, so i needed a source for macros that usually come from fish. Specialised also have micros so no need for Premium.
> I started with smaller doses because there was almost no plants (they were pretty small!). They grew and i needed to give them some more. Just like kids
> One important note: you must fertilise from day one specially if you use 1-2-grow plants because they are smaller plants and the nutrient reserves they have are much smaller.
> 
> You should start with the dose on the bootle and add more as you need. Of course experience is a lot of help
> 
> Pedro.



Brilliant, thank you for all the words of wisdom and information. Can't believe it only placed #1102 thought.

Kind Regards,

Adam


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## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> Is this tank still running?



Yes, it is. I changed it a little bit. I'm now growing the new plants and updated in a couple of weeks. Then it's probably time to move on


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## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> Then it's probably time to move on



it seems this has been a longer running project than usual for you but perhaps that is just my (mistaken) impression  

I'm curious on the size & behaviour of your _Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra_  - they are my favorite fish in this tank (your excellent photos!) & I was trying to convince the local shop to bring them in


Looking forward to the updates


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Pedro, Love this Great video


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## Pedro Rosa

Sorry Alto, i missed this 



alto said:


> it seems this has been a longer running project than usual for you but perhaps that is just my (mistaken) impression



Yes, it makes one year today. My personal record 



> I'm curious on the size & behaviour of your _Hyphessobrycon Ornatus white fin Tetra_  - they are my favorite fish in this tank (your excellent photos!) & I was trying to convince the local shop to bring them in



They are stunning. Great colours and a very nice fish. It says mainly on the bottom 1/3 of the aquarium but get pretty active when feeding.
Recommended 

Pedro.


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## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> Yes, it makes one year today. My personal record


does this mean we get 1 year Anniversary Photos!!!


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## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> does this mean we get 1 year Anniversary Photos!!!



Yes, I have some photos from last Saturday... and what a difference you guys will see.
I was saying before that i was going to make some changes and here they are.
Some plants changed place, some others are out and some others are in: Ludwigia Arcuata, Lysimachia Nummularia, Eriocaulon Cinerum. First one was already on Tropica's catalog, the two other aren't from Tropica.
Ludwigia Arcuata, Lysimachia Nummularia i had on some wabi kusas that Mr. Amano offered Rui Alves of Aquaeden that were leftovers from Florestas Submersas. Great transformation, mainly on Ludwigia Arcuata.

The new diagram:




 

Plant list:
1 - Limnophila Aquatica
2 - Ludwigia Arcuata
3 - Lysimachia Nummularia
4 - Limnophila hippuridoides
5 - Myriophyllum mattogrossense
6 - Ludwigia Palustris
7 - Heteranthera Zosterifolia
8 - Hygrophila corymbose ‘Angustifolia’
9 - Cryptocoryne Petchi
10 - Hygrophila corymbosa 'Siamensis 53B'
11 - Nymphaea lotus
12 - Lobelia Cardinalis
13 - Staurogyne Repens
14 - Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo'
15 - Eriocaulon Cinerum
16 - Cyperus helferi

And some photos.

















I took one other main photo and applied it to AGA - Dutch Contest.

Pedro.

PS: I guess/hope that everything is fine with all other photos from this journal because i found out that Google ended Picasa and migrated everything to $#$%$ Google Plus Albums.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Offtop: I'm very happy with Flickr to host my photos.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Very nice garden, Pedro. But I guess plant no 16 is not helferi?


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## Pedro Rosa

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Offtop: I'm very happy with Flickr to host my photos.



I know, I should change


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## Pedro Rosa

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Very nice garden, Pedro. But I guess plant no 16 is not helferi?



   copy-paste changes... i saw helferi and ... well it's Cyperus helferi! I will change the topic.
Thanks Alexander.


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## alto

Love the change!



Pedro Rosa said:


> Ludwigia Arcuata, Lysimachia Nummularia


and two of my long time favorites - so disappointed that Tropica removed both from their catalogue   



Pedro Rosa said:


> Eriocaulon


I've always been dubious about the Erio's but that photo with my favorite fish is winning me over 



Pedro Rosa said:


> Ludwigia Arcuata, Lysimachia Nummularia i had on some wabi kusas that Mr. Amano offered Rui Alves of Aquaeden that were leftovers from Florestas Submersas.


such sentimental plants now


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## alto

Pedro Rosa said:


> PS: I guess/hope that everything is fine with all other photos from this journal because i found out that Google ended Picasa and migrated everything to $#$%$ Google Plus Albums


I just scrolled through - all seems well


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## Alexander Belchenko

Very interesting how you make lotus not the focal plant soliter, but make the leiden street with it.


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## Pedro Rosa

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Very interesting how you make lotus not the focal plant soliter, but make the leiden street with it.



First time using Lotus. It took me 2 months, or more, two tell her that i wanted a "low" plant. She finally understood


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## Pedro Rosa

alto said:


> I just scrolled through - all seems well



Thanks Alto. I looked also and it seems that links are not broken.


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