# Silicates causing diatoms?



## Goose157 (23 Mar 2018)

hi all,
Well i am fighting the diatom battle!
Research online states many factors.... silicates being on the list......
Well probably foolishly i have used this in my tank.....(2 inch layer of argos playsand)
At the moment i have great flow - approx 20 x ! (Jbl 1902 - spraybar) in a 20 gallon 90 l tank.
5 hrs a day 1 watt per gallon light 
Co2 2 hrs on before lights on. 
Co2 1 hr off before light out.
Ei dose as per instructions...(10 ml per 50 l) alternate macro / micro
1 rest day from Ei then the next day a 50% water change weekly.
And diatoms galore.....
Are the silicates the cause of my wows??
Starting to think it might be time to take down and reboot this tank?? Perhaps use some proper substrate??
Any help appreciated...
Chris


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## Konsa (23 Mar 2018)

Hi
Argos playsand has nothing to do with your diatom outbreak.I have72l low tech tank with it and never had major issues with any  algae in it.I started with mature filter,high plant mass(including flaters to block light from my 55w pll lamp with 4800 lumens),regular water changes and ferts and low bioload(2 asselus puffer babies and 5 fully grown amano shrimp)
Diatoms are not difficult algae to get rid off.Its easily scrubbed off and shrimp,snails and ottos love to eat it.It sounds like new tank imbalance to me.
Regards Konsa


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## foxfish (23 Mar 2018)

Do you have a lime green drop checker from lights on until the gas is switched off, have you done a PH profile?
20 x is a lot, do you have a lot of surface agitation?


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## sciencefiction (23 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> Research online states many factors.... silicates being on the list....



Silicates are not a trigger for diatoms. If they were, all of us, in all tanks would have a constant diatom outbreak. They are required for diatoms to survive but besides that the issue lies somewhere else. We can't remove silicates from our tanks. The level of silicates is irrelevant, as long as there's some....which each tank has. The trigger lies elsewhere...

Diatoms are due to "new tank syndrome", i.e. ammonia levels.....plus light. The issue will resolve itself in a couple of months when the tank matures more. By then you'd need to clean it or it will turn green eventually(meaning colonised by other algae and micro-organisms)


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## Matty123 (23 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> hi all,
> Well i am fighting the diatom battle!
> Research online states many factors.... silicates being on the list......
> Well probably foolishly i have used this in my tank.....(2 inch layer of argos playsand)
> ...



Oh bugger so sorry to hear this Goose! I was hoping my advise might of helped... is your lighting at the lowest setting/level possible? Silicates don’t  cause diatoms, there’s lots of reasons to come to this that somebody might expand on. It is common knowledge that diatoms appear in bear bottomed tanks and lots of peeps with sandy bottoms never get them... 

Kind regards 
Matt 


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## pepedopolous (23 Mar 2018)

Any rocks in the tank? If yes, have you boiled them?


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## Goose157 (24 Mar 2018)

Matty123 said:


> Oh bugger so sorry to hear this Goose! I was hoping my advise might of helped... is your lighting at the lowest setting/level possible? Silicates don’t  cause diatoms, there’s lots of reasons to come to this that somebody might expand on. It is common knowledge that diatoms appear in bear bottomed tanks and lots of peeps with sandy bottoms never get them...
> 
> Kind regards
> Matt
> ...


Hi Matt - your advice did help....but i am like you a perfectionist!! Lol....sends me bonkers seeing the brown stuff appearing a little still and i have trying to really get to the bottom of it!!
My tank is a lot better now .... but i feel like like i am just a mistake away from another bad attack so all the info methods i can learn the better....
All the best Chris


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## PARAGUAY (24 Mar 2018)

There is thread somewhere about silicates if anyone can give you a link? A 50 percent water change once a week ,try to increase water changes to maybe every other day with a gentle sypthoning above the sand when you do it, if your time limited 20 or 30 percent changes with the 50% once a week.Diatoms often go as quickly as they appear so wouldnt redo your tank because of the sand


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## dw1305 (24 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 





PARAGUAY said:


> There is thread somewhere about silicates if anyone can give you a link?


There are a few threads that explain the reasons why quartz (silicon dioxide (SiO2))  has nothing to do with diatom outbreaks. A lot of the stuff written on the web is designed to persuade the aquarist they want to buy a silicate remover.

Diatoms use orthosilic acids to build their frustules, and they are incredibly effective at finding them, pretty much all liquid water contains diatoms, including in the soil, large puddles etc.

I've got a pebble of <"Hebridean gneiss"> that is about 3,000,000,000 years old and quartz based, it hasn't dissolved, so why should the sand in your tank? The <"Danish Moler clay based media"> we use is made from diatom frustules and has built into a bed 60 meters thick, and was laid down 55,000,000 years ago.

Have a look at <"the CO2 algal cycle">, <"Causes and removal....">, <"Diatoms my facts"> etc.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (24 Mar 2018)

New tank syndrome not silicates. Cause is far too much light in a cycling tank, allowing diatoms to take hold.

I have had them twice. First when I set my tank up, got impatient after many weeks and turned reflectors round on my T8 tubes and with in a day or two diatoms everywhere. Cured by wiping, water changes and Otto's who scoffed the lot.

Second time when I moved to T5 tubes, got impatient and put reflectors and increased light period and BANG diatoms...scoffed by Otto's again.


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## PARAGUAY (24 Mar 2018)

ian_m said:


> New tank syndrome not silicates. Cause is far too much light in a cycling tank, allowing diatoms to take hold.
> 
> I have had them twice. First when I set my tank up, got impatient after many weeks and turned reflectors round on my T8 tubes and with in a day or two diatoms everywhere. Cured by wiping, water changes and Otto's who scoffed the lot.
> 
> Second time when I moved to T5 tubes, got impatient and put reflectors and increased light period and BANG diatoms...scoffed by Otto's again.


I started my 4 tube t5 on all tubes on,the lovely redition they give ha ha,soon learned too much light . At the moment raised 12" above on two tubes, maybe the OP could consider Ottos


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## Goose157 (24 Mar 2018)

pepedopolous said:


> Any rocks in the tank? If yes, have you boiled them?





ian_m said:


> New tank syndrome not silicates. Cause is far too much light in a cycling tank, allowing diatoms to take hold.
> 
> I have had them twice. First when I set my tank up, got impatient after many weeks and turned reflectors round on my T8 tubes and with in a day or two diatoms everywhere. Cured by wiping, water changes and Otto's who scoffed the lot.
> 
> Second time when I moved to T5 tubes, got impatient and put reflectors and increased light period and BANG diatoms...scoffed by Otto's again.


thank all for this info....
My next purchase when i can find any will be 4-6 otto’s .....
Last week when at my lfs  they had none in stock....just my luck...!
Cheers Chris


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## PARAGUAY (24 Mar 2018)

pepedopolous said:


> Any rocks in the tank? If yes, have you boiled them?


Not so sure if boiling rocks is safe?


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## sciencefiction (24 Mar 2018)

No boiling necessary....they can explode if you boil them.
Pouring boiling water over them is enough


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## Goose157 (24 Mar 2018)

So just finished a big water change - removed a mass of growth , scraper off the brown stuff (not actually too much,  but still bugging me!), moved my small power head to give a little bit more agitation...
Sucked up the detritus.put some tapsafe water back in...removed the floaty bits....added 20 ml macro salts.....now just sitting with a cuppa... looking forward to when the reduced lighting turns on about 2pm - 7pm.....
Lol this is painful !!
Can’t wait till i get another tank...
Cheers Chris


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## PARAGUAY (24 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> So just finished a big tchange - removed a mass of growth , scraper off the brown stuff (not actually too much,  but still bugging me!), moved my small power head to give a little bit more agitation...
> Sucked up the detritus.put some tapsafe water back in...removed the floaty bits....added 20 ml macro salts.....now just sitting with a cuppa... looking forward to when the reduced lighting turns on about 2pm - 7pm.....
> Lol this is painful !!
> Can’t wait till i get another tank...
> Cheers Chris


Thats not allowed you have to see this out


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## sciencefiction (24 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> scraper off the brown stuff



You know, right now, over the last week I've been trying to grow me some diatoms....I've been blasting light between 12-16hrs a day! 7 days past and I have an extremely tiny bit of it on one of the anubias leaves, lol....So its not that easy to grow it when you want it. Diatoms is an important part of the fish's food chain...It's unsightly but certainly not harmful...and grazing fish love it.


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## Goose157 (24 Mar 2018)

sciencefiction said:


> You know, right now, over the last week I've been trying to grow me some diatoms....I've been blasting light between 12-16hrs a day! 7 days past and I have an extremely tiny bit of it on one of the anubias leaves, lol....So its not that easy to grow it when you want it. Diatoms is an important part of the fish's food chain...It's unsightly but certainly not harmful...and grazing fish love it.


I am very jealous! Lol


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## Goose157 (24 Mar 2018)

Ottos are firmly on my next purchase list!


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## Barbara Turner (25 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> Ottos are firmly on my next purchase list!



Guessing you have fish? 

Are you testing no2 /  no3? 
If your still early on and nitrates are high, you might not want to add any extra fish. 

There are various bacteria bombs that will help speed up the cycling process if nitrates are high. 

Running the max amount of excel flourish can help but it's a bit of a balance between turning your plants to mush and killing the algae. 

Best advice I was given was big cleaning sessions followed by big water changes.


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## Goose157 (25 Mar 2018)

The tank i has actually been runnning for about five years now....but only planted for about 2 month.......
Cheers


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## Matty123 (25 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> Hi Matt - your advice did help....but i am like you a perfectionist!! Lol....sends me bonkers seeing the brown stuff appearing a little still and i have trying to really get to the bottom of it!!
> My tank is a lot better now .... but i feel like like i am just a mistake away from another bad attack so all the info methods i can learn the better....
> All the best Chris



Oh that’s a relief! Yeah just keep that tank pristine so to keep ammonia to nearer to zero as possible. The light is the accelerator for the blooms as soon as it’s in contact with the ammonia. Algae spores are present in every tank so think of them as dormant and docile caterpillars but as soon as that caterpillar is exposed to the right nutrients (light in reference to algae) then it turns into a beautiful butterfly and the same sort of scenario happens to the algae spores (when in contact with the right amount of light) you get ‘beautiful’ algae! Keep it clean and light lean 


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## Goose157 (25 Mar 2018)

Hey mate .... its on the mend but i think after seeing so many awesome tanks on here my humble 20g looks like the poor relation! Lol......
Cheers ...-)


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## Matty123 (25 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> Hey mate .... its on the mend but i think after seeing so many awesome tanks on here my humble 20g looks like the poor relation! Lol......
> Cheers ...-)



Evening Goose!  

Amano’s tanks had staff working on them 24/7 to keep them looking amazing. George Farmers tanks look stunning with bags of OCD maintenance (worthwhile checking out his vids on YouTube). But there is the balance to all this by letting nature and BAGS of patience take its course... Like women suffer from ‘bum envy’ us aquarists suffer the bottom envy. Talking of bottoms; my tank resembled that of the aftermath of sea bed trawled within an inch of it’s life, it looked truly awful. Without sounding big headed and naive the advise I passed onto you is what I learnt from these helpful chaps on here and it worked! With the advise already stated above you won’t go wrong BUT you have to be patient! Oh and stop looking at pictures on here of others peoples tanks as they’ve obviously been photoshopped! 


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## Goose157 (26 Mar 2018)

Lol yes deffo too impatient!!! 
Cheers
And yes subscribed to George’s channel....(


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## Matty123 (26 Mar 2018)

Goose157 said:


> Lol yes deffo too impatient!!!
> Cheers
> And yes subscribed to George’s channel....(



I was only jesting about people tanks being photoshopped, just saying as I don’t want to aquarist mafia on my back, the cod father is a force not be reckoned with! 

All the best with it and look forward to the fruits of your labour as they will come soon enough 


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## ian_m (26 Mar 2018)

Barbara Turner said:


> If your still early on and nitrates are high, you might not want to add any extra fish.





Barbara Turner said:


> There are various bacteria bombs that will help speed up the cycling process if nitrates are high.


I assume you mean nitrites ? High nitrates are not a problem for fish, where as nitrites even in low levels are quite toxic to fish.


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## zozo (26 Mar 2018)

Barbara Turner said:


> There are various bacteria bombs that will help speed up the cycling process


I remember a Lab test article from a few years back, they tested a range of products claiming to add a bacteria polpulation to jump start a filter or aqaurium what so ever. The freeze dried products performed the worst, it couldn't be determined if they add anything at all.. Followed by the liquid products with the same result and the Gel version performed the best. But bottom line conclusiion, non of them performed good enough to give one the credit of beeing worth using and or buying. In the end there wasn't much significant difference in the test subject without additives vs. the test subjects with additives.

The best bacteria bombs out there are still the plants and the life bacteria already living in and on their roots. Comming for free with it when you buy them. And than a bit more patience if you are doing it without plants.


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## dw1305 (26 Mar 2018)

Hi all,





Barbara Turner said:


> Are you testing no2 / no3?


I think testing is always <"going to be a divisive issue">, my point of view would be that I would like to know accurate water parameters for the tanks, but even with a lab., and a lot time, it isn't always possible.

For the the nitrite(NO2)/nitrate(NO3) question I think the answer is that you can test fairly accurately for NO2 using semi-quantitative colorimetric methods and the scientific protocol, but that testing for NO3 is a lot more problematic even with lab. grade kit.

This was a major reason for developing the "duckweed index", if you have healthy growing, dark green floating plants you have plenty of nutrients, it is as simple as that. If you want to limit nutrient addition you can use a conductivity datum, and only add nutrients when your floating plants begin to show deficiency symptoms.

Because plants need about x10 more nitrogen (NO3) and potassium (K) than any of the other nutrients, and N and K are mobile within the plants, a small plant with senescent older leaves is very likely to be N and/or K deficient. When you add potassium nitrate (KNO3) you should get a fairly rapid greening, because of their mobile nature.





Barbara Turner said:


> If your still early on and nitrates are high, you might not want to add any extra fish.


OK, nitrates are the end product of the aerobic nitrification process, they can only be removed by:

Water changes with water lower in nitrates.
Plant growth.
Ion exchange using an anion specific resin.
Anaerobic denitrification.
Plants are the easiest method, partially because they produce a <"negative feedback loop"> partially because they are <"net oxygen producers"> and partially because they take up all forms of fixed nitrogen and the NH3 and NO2 that doesn't enter microbial filtration doesn't have an oxygen demand.  





Barbara Turner said:


> There are various bacteria bombs that will help speed up the cycling process if nitrates are high.


Again it is an area with much debate, I notice these are often mentioned positively on Koi and Cichlid forums, possibly because these are often kept in tanks without plants and with messy feeding fish.

I think in planted tanks their role is a lot less clear mainly because the microbes they contain (assuming they actually contain some) are probably different from the microbial assemblage that occurs in a planted tank, there is a discussion of this in <"Filter cycling...">.

cheers Darrel


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