# IAPLC 2010 Results are out



## George Farmer (10 Aug 2010)

http://en.iaplc.com/results10/results10.html

Congrats to all that entered!  

I've looked through the results and here's what I found.  There's over 1,800 entries so I may have missed a couple; apologies.

49th Peter Kirwan (Ireland)
96th Viktor Lantos (Hungary)

Congrats to Peter and Viktor; Top 100 is aquascaping at the highest level.

From the UK -

457 Tony Swinney
500 Melvin Cotton
544 Stu Worrall
559 Dan Farmer (George and Dan)
608 James Starr-Marshall
752 Neil Whitley
888 James Maslin
893 Paulo Leal
997 Andy Hart
1045 Ted Eales
1147 Aaron North
1230 Sam Clowsley
1343 Damien Goffin
1574 Jason Griffiths 
1804 Luis Embalo

What's most impressive for me about this is the level of UK participation this year; the best ever.  It's a positive reflection of how the aquascaping hobby is growing here.


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## viktorlantos (10 Aug 2010)

Hi George, i've just seen the results too just a few minutes ago.    
Congrat to all entrants from UKAPS. I think we all had a bet that Peter will do great as allways.  

For my tank i am a bit supprised with the result. I do not think my tank is that strong, however i was very lucky to capture it in a good form and the photos were shooted in good quality. I had a thought yesterday i will not be in the top 300 so i can publish those photos finally. But now i may need to wait a bit.

Anyway i would like to say thank you guys, since the majority of the knowledge i learnt here.  Many great inspirational tanks and professional scapers. Really helpful community and i love to be here.    

Congrat to all who entered to the contest this year.


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## James Marshall (10 Aug 2010)

A big well done to Peter and Viktor, a top 100 placement is very respectable indeed  
Congratulations to Tonser for being the highest ranked UK entrant  , and congrats to all at UKaps who entered.
As George said it great to see the number of UK entrants is on the rise

I can't wait see the photos of the top 27, they're usually a real treat

Cheers,
James


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

Congratulations everyone, seems my lil Pico missed the cut


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## chilled84 (10 Aug 2010)

O m g i did not come last ??!?!!?!!! lol hahahahaha    And to think it was half filled with all the pipes in and not even grown in, The scape i enterd was 7 days old lol, Result!  

well done to the other guys getting top 100! What an achievement!


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## Nelson (10 Aug 2010)

i'm well chuffed.1st time entering   .

congrats everyone   .

chilli,whats your real name then ?.


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## chilled84 (10 Aug 2010)

nelson said:
			
		

> i'm well chuffed.1st time entering   .
> 
> congrats everyone   .
> 
> chilli,whats your real name then ?.



Im sure it says mate, Ruined my Long time mysteryman image


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## Dan Crawford (10 Aug 2010)

Well done everybody, thats great stuff. It's awesome to see how the UK entries are slowly creeping up in numbers.


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## Graeme Edwards (10 Aug 2010)

Congrats too all who entered. Melvin did well. I took the pictures for as hes an older dude shal we say. Top guy and well done to him.
Well done to all, a bumper turn out.

I did enter, and had the confermation email, but it seems im not down. I feel quite deflated about it. Im going to contact them to find out what happened to my entry   




> Dear Graeme Edwards,
> 
> Thank you for your applying to IAPLC2010.
> 
> ...


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> I did enter, and had the confermation email, but it seems im not down.



Same here, we just missed the cut


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## Dan Crawford (10 Aug 2010)

Jase said:
			
		

> Graeme Edwards said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There isn't a cut, all entries should be included unless you've "broken the rules". I'd be very surprised if Graeme's 1800l bad boy didn't make the cut anyway, the best aquascape i've ever seen in real life!


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> There isn't a cut, all entries should be included unless you've "broken the rules". I'd be very surprised if Graeme's 1800l bad boy didn't make the cut anyway, the best aquascape i've ever seen in real life!



With people getting entry numbers in the 2000s i assumed they had cut some. I don't believe I have broken the rules, I did check them before entering, I don't think there was a minimum volume   

I didn't know what Graeme had entered, could have been scubadivers and blue gravel


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2010)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Jase said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed.

For Graeme's not to have been ranked, for whatever reason, is a true travesty. I saw the final photos and it's one of the best aquascapes I've ever seen.  To be honest, not seeing Graeme's result has tainted the whole event for me.    

Let's hope this issue get's sorted soon.

I hope Jase's gets sorted too, of course.


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

I can see that I've broken the 



			
				IAPLC said:
			
		

> â– Only unreleased / unpublished work produced by an individual applicant is accepted. (There is no regulation in the aquarium size.)



Mine was entered into the UKAPS Pico Comp last year. 

Was Graeme's published on TGM?

Don't know that they would check


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## samc (10 Aug 2010)

slightly disapointed with my ranking, but it should be easy to beat it next time   

also a real shame graemes is not ranked. i am sure he would do the uk proud.


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## mlgt (10 Aug 2010)

Well done to all that entered !


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## Dave Spencer (10 Aug 2010)

I wonder whether the Vietnamese will put in another strong performance. The Polish may well be the top guys from outside the Orient. Still, if my World Cup predictions are anything to go by....

Dave.


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## James Marshall (10 Aug 2010)

I checked the results pages about a dozen times to look for Graeme Edwards.
IMO Graeme is the UKs best scaper, not to have him represent us at contest is nothing short of criminal  
If this is another misapplication of the 'unpublished work' rule by an international contest, then I think it's time for a change in the rules. Or perhaps we should all concentrate on the AGA and AAC contests where the rules are fairer.

Cheers,
James


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2010)

I don't think Graeme's or Jase's work will be disqualified for the reasons suggested.  I've published all my 'scapes previous to results, but not the final photos, and I've been ranked in all contests since 2007.

Hopefully Graeme will hear from the organisers soon...


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## viktorlantos (10 Aug 2010)

well to be fair as the one who is in the top 100 i really feels that i've seen much better tank than mine. maybe the one i did was closer to the green na style.

but really i've seen some tanks from 200 and above. they are amazing. i also was lucky to see the "Dan Farmer" tank too at Interzoo this year. I loved that! I bet George did a great photo capture on that.

that's a shame if some great qual tank missed the contest because of a technical fault or so. i do not believe that was a disqualification. i hope they can sort that out.

i was worried before when i heard ADA wants to grow the number of entrants to hit record this year. which is some point good as the aquascaping hobby reach many places in the world and we can see many new faces/tanks, but on the other hand more tank, more work, maybe more rush to meet the deadlines. possibly more fault, or more great tank misses the top for some reason.

i am hoping they are still on the top of the whole thing. but i am sure the top 27 will rock as every year. can't wait to see them.


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## Anonymous (10 Aug 2010)

You can find here the proper OCRd version of the results:
http://www.purewishes.ro/iaplc2010/
Available only today. Hope the link works for everybody.

Cheers,
Mike


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## andyh (10 Aug 2010)

Congrats to all who entered!

Cant wait to see some of the final shots!

Its gutting that G-mans 1800l didnt get ranked/left out etc i saw it in the flesh and it was truely world class!  

Andyh


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## LondonDragon (10 Aug 2010)

My last minute entry with an old photo and the equipment all in the tank didn't do as bad as I thought it would lol 

Congrats all and congrats to Peter again for setting the standard


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## a1Matt (10 Aug 2010)

Respect out to everyone that entered   

Is there a certain time after the event that entrants are then allowed to publish their entry pics?
Would be nice to see pics of all the UK\Ireland entries in a thread...



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> You can find here the proper OCRd version of the results:
> http://www.purewishes.ro/iaplc2010/
> Available only today. Hope the link works for everybody.
> 
> ...



Nice up


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

Here is evidence as to not believe everything George Farmer tells you    

  



			
				IAPLC said:
			
		

> 1574 Jason Griffiths England


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## a1Matt (10 Aug 2010)

he he.. I reckon George scanned the results for 'UNITED KINGDOM' and not 'ENGLAND' as well


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## Lisa_Perry75 (10 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> There's over 1,800 entries so I may have missed a couple; apologies.



I think those comments are bit unfair. I opened the document and then couldn't be bothered to even read it lol


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## a1Matt (10 Aug 2010)

Sorry, was just having a laugh     
Hopefully did not offend George.


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2010)

Jase said:
			
		

> Here is evidence as to not believe everything George Farmer tells you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoops, sorry Jason!  My apologies.   



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> Sorry, was just having a laugh
> Hopefully did not offend George.


No worries mate!


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## Jase (10 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Whoops, sorry Jason!  My apologies.



Not to worry Mr F! I looked through because you said you may have missed some, and I missed me too


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## Graeme Edwards (10 Aug 2010)

Thanks Dan, George, James and Andy for the comments. Its nice to hear.

I did the 1800l for TGM when I was working there, so I have to give them the credit for letting me do such a thing, it was a privilege - Thanks TGM. 
It could be that because I was working for an ADA distributor at the time, that in some way makes me void of entering, I'm not sure. Seems a little unfair to me really. I'm quite disappointed. 

Congrats to you all though,its great to see the UK numbers rising. Peter is a quite a genious isn't he?  Damn you Peter   

I look forward to seeing the images.

Cheers.
Graeme.


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## JamesM (10 Aug 2010)

Congrats guys, another great turnout with some very good results. 

I have no idea how I'm listed though as I didn't enter this year!


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## Piece-of-fish (10 Aug 2010)

Congratulations to all participants. Its nice to see that the numbers are growing. Looks like most of the participants are first time entrants. The level of a contest probably got higher as usual the 10th aniversary adding to that as well.
Missed the works from the top guys especially who are able of great photography as automatically tanks get ranked higher. It would be really lovely to see a scape or 2 in the top 100
Apologies to Mr.Farmer and all entrants if my earlier post offended anyone.
Sometimes because of lack of english words the meaning of my posts could be not exactly what i am trying to say 
'Take it seriuosly' i meant the preparation and final photo, the final few steps. You take so much care and time to make the scape so its a shame when the final last steps are overlooked by any reasons such as not taking the equipment out 



By the way George i already have a 2011 winning scape, there it is and hope you all like it will have to shoot new photos now not to brake the rules 





Regards...


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## viktorlantos (10 Aug 2010)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> I did the 1800l for TGM when I was working there, so I have to give them the credit for letting me do such a thing, it was a privilege - Thanks TGM.
> It could be that because I was working for an ADA distributor at the time, that in some way makes me void of entering, I'm not sure. Seems a little unfair to me really. I'm quite disappointed.



Graeme, i do not think that's the case. I also entered to the contest with a few hundred other ADA distributors around the world. I bet in Japan many ADA aquascaping shop created at least one tank for the contest.

There are no rules that ADA shops and its employees could not enter to the contest.
There's a tech issue with your tank. Maybe it was just too big to fit on their monitor.  
Sorry for the joke man. This is shame they confirmed and lost your tank. I hope they will tell you the real reason.


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## zig (10 Aug 2010)

Hey thanks for all the congrats guys, got lucky again haha. Well done to all who entered its a good bit of gas anyway waiting for the result whatever that may be. Especially well done to Victor, great result right there. That new lad Dan Farmer did well with his first entry as well!!

But I cant believe you didnt get ranked Graeme, unbelieveable, really unbelieveable. Id be gutted after all the effort put in especially on a monster tank like that, feel gutted for ya I really do.

Be back soon guys busy right now, talk to you later.


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## keymaker (10 Aug 2010)

Congrats Peter and Viktor! As George rightly said, to be in the top 100 means the world. You guys know kung-fu.  Respect.

Graeme, absolutely unbelievable.  Really interested to know the reason why you got unevaluated like that...  You deserve better Mate.


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## Piece-of-fish (11 Aug 2010)

Looking now at some works you can tell that the level and competitiveness got much higher this year:
Anyway here are some works:

http://acuariorosa.com/2010/08/10/the-i ... test-2010/


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## Mark Evans (11 Aug 2010)

i'm sorry, but again, there's some really strange positions/placements for certain tanks. I know of a few UK tanks that are better than certain tanks that placed higher(i wont point out the tanks on the link, i think youll see yourself)

 I just don't think there's the care gone into the judging. AGA is where it's at IMVHO

i'll shut up now  :silent: 

Graeme! sorry man to hear about your entry.


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## NeilW (11 Aug 2010)

From outside looking in it seems to me that ADA have an ulterior motive of promoting ideas and styles that agree with their own plans.  Commercial interest has got to be a factor for ADA, but for the AGA this isn't an issue.  

On the other hand I think even entering a competition at ADA standard is something to be be proud of for all those involved, excellent stuff   

Cheers,
Neil


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## Stu Worrall (11 Aug 2010)

congrats to all for a lot more UK entries this year!  Congrats to tony on the top UK entry and peter for irelands, very well done.  Shame about whats happened with Graemes as its most odd, stunning scape he built too, especially when he was hanging in the tank off a harness to get the rocks just so!  Really pleased with my placing, are we ok to put our pictures up now?  Cant do mine tho as im away.


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## Graeme Edwards (11 Aug 2010)

I now know what happened to my entry.

I got an email from Laura at The Green Machine. Laura is the UK representative of IAPLC 2010 and is with communication with ADA Japan.
It turns out I was disqualified for breaching rules regarding previously published work. TGM are clearly saddened to, as it would of been good publicity for them also. I think it still is in many ways. TGM have kindly offered to let me do another scape for next year, at which no pictures would be published, or at least close to finishing pictures. Im sure that many other people have got away with previously publishing there work, perhaps un-knowingly, but the TGM website gets a lot of hits and its understanderbable that it will be a place where ADA Japan will have a look at. Amano him self might of thought I was a genius aquascaper   or not! 
The image I submitted, that you can see George has posted on another thread ( thanks mate ) is very similar, perhaps for ADA to similar to what I submitted. http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/ar ... -the-earth

So thats my 2010 dealt with. Cant say im not disappointed, I thought I might of had a good chance at getting a good rank this year with me moving away from the nano's.

Congrats to every one ells. I look forward to seeing the final images of all your works. We will need a 2010 ADA entry post making up to get you all noticed day in day out.

Keep up the good work every body. I respect all your entry's, your skills and artistic merits. You are all what make UKaps so great.  

Cheeres.
Graeme.


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## andyh (11 Aug 2010)

Group Hug!

Bad luck dude!


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## Lisa_Perry75 (11 Aug 2010)

Just been looking through the pics. I love 134Âº Slobodan Lazarevic (Serbia):-
http://acuariorosa.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/134.jpg

Just flicking through the pics and some scapes I find their ranking interesting. A couple of the pictures are really odd - I don't know enough about photography to explain exactly:-
http://acuariorosa.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/110.jpg
http://acuariorosa.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/80.jpg
Maybe someone with more knowledge could tell me why these look slightly odd?

PS So sorry to hear that Graeme!


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## Mark Evans (11 Aug 2010)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> A couple of the pictures are really odd



such as? i'm not with you lisa


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## Lisa_Perry75 (11 Aug 2010)

The processing - or the settings with which they have been taken. I'm not a photography expert, I was hoping someone with the knowledge would be able to see the difference and could explain to me


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## Mark Evans (11 Aug 2010)

over sharpened maybe. they may look better at their fullest resolution. sharpening, or over doing it can look horrid. I personally rely on what comes out of the camera.


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## zig (11 Aug 2010)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> I now know what happened to my entry.
> 
> I got an email from Laura at The Green Machine. Laura is the UK representative of IAPLC 2010 and is with communication with ADA Japan.
> It turns out I was disqualified for breaching rules regarding previously published work. TGM are clearly saddened to, as it would of been good publicity for them also. I think it still is in many ways. TGM have kindly offered to let me do another scape for next year, at which no pictures would be published, or at least close to finishing pictures. Im sure that many other people have got away with previously publishing there work, perhaps un-knowingly, but the TGM website gets a lot of hits and its understanderbable that it will be a place where ADA Japan will have a look at. Amano him self might of thought I was a genius aquascaper   or not!
> ...



Well that explains that I suppose and it is very bad luck if thats indeed what happened, because I see the no.106 positioned  tank in this years IALPC 2010 was the large tank catagory winner at this years AAC 2010 competition which only released results in the last couple of months. Still, no solace there for you Graeme, always next year, great tank btw, easily one of the largest tanks ever sucessfully aquascaped in the UK, great achievement and a beauty at that.


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## zig (11 Aug 2010)

Lisa_Perry75 said:
			
		

> Just been looking through the pics. I love 134Âº Slobodan Lazarevic (Serbia):-
> http://acuariorosa.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/134.jpg
> 
> Just flicking through the pics and some scapes I find their ranking interesting. A couple of the pictures are really odd - I don't know enough about photography to explain exactly:-
> ...



I thought they were the same scape, I had to do a double take, I said whats going on here!  <- I Think I need glasses! 

They just look over sharpened to me as well, way oversharpened.


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## LondonDragon (12 Aug 2010)

Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Looking now at some works you can tell that the level and competitiveness got much higher this year:
> Anyway here are some works:
> 
> http://acuariorosa.com/2010/08/10/the-i ... test-2010/



That 419 is shocking to be rated that high!! lol


Hard luck Graeme, but at least you will get another shot at it next year  I did see your monster tank in the flesh and it was just amazing!!!!!


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## Lisa_Perry75 (12 Aug 2010)

Ahh, thanks for explaining that to me Mark and Zig.


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## viktorlantos (12 Aug 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> That 419 is shocking to be rated that high!! lol



i would say this is not 100% sure these photos were sent to the competition. we will be sure from the contest book later, but they are close. currently everyone try to collect the entrants from blogs, forums, image gallerys, but not sure exactly the same photos were sent.

on this one 419 i am also supprised too, but as long as you see that you will feels that natural. the sand slope the stone with the acicularis and a few hc here and there feels like a coast.

so at some point they need healthy planted tank, but you can see many tanks in the contest which is not natural at all. just a mass of plants. no transitions between foreground/mid/background no focal points and the plant selection just not fit right.

i am not saying this tank deserve its placement as i also can find many great ones above 420 too, but i can see some points why they ranked this better than some others.

i read a great article in the past few months from one of the judge Karen Randall and she explained clearly the differences between AGA and ADA contests. She is a judge also on ADA with many other old folks.

she also pointed out many things why tanks get lower score or higher score on contests. very interesting. i try to find it as that fits well to this topic.


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## Anonymous (12 Aug 2010)

Graeme you haven't missed anything this year ... 
As George stated I find shooting a tank in 2d (front side) very limiting.
As for me I prefer AGA, it's a much more creative contest and non-limiting than IAPLC.


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## viktorlantos (12 Aug 2010)

oh here it is: http://www.littlegreencorner.com/aquari ... ndall.html


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## Dan Crawford (12 Aug 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> That 419 is shocking to be rated that high!! lol


Thats an outrage! I've become more despondent about the competition since finding out that only the top 100 are judged properly. That particular tank has a good basis but that's not what the competition is about is it? In recent years i've seen awesome scapes in the 800s and horrific ones above 500. I'm not one for slating an aquascape and that's not what i'm doing, i'm just annoyed at how they "judge" the entries, if at all! I know that they have a lot of entries but if you're not going to do it properly, why do it at all?


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## Stu Worrall (12 Aug 2010)

crap news graeme, i can imagine loads of other scapes have had their images displayed in the past.

#419 - why did I bother 

Anyway, heres my entry that I put in this year which got #544


90x45x45cm ADA Entry 2010 by Stu Worrall, on Flickr

After thoughts on it were that I shouldn't have blow out the lighting on the top so much and also bought more fish!  It was taken with two 150w studio flashes to the left and right plus the ada solar1 above.  I also made a cardboard template to go around the tank to cut down on reflections.


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## John Starkey (13 Aug 2010)

Well done to all  those that entered,Graeme i think you have been hard done by,

DONT YOU THINK ITS TIME WE HAD A UK COMPETITION  :?:   :idea: ,
regards,
john.


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## James Marshall (13 Aug 2010)

That's a gorgeous image Stu, it has a real feeling of summer about it  .
Well done on your placement mate  

Here here, on the idea UK contest John.

Cheers,
James


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## Piece-of-fish (13 Aug 2010)

john starkey said:
			
		

> Well done to all  those that entered,Graeme i think you have been hard done by,
> 
> DONT YOU THINK ITS TIME WE HAD A UK COMPETITION  :?:   :idea: ,
> regards,
> john.



Thats a great idea.  With such large community it would be awesome and very challenging which would benefit all. We could even raise some money for the prizes. I wouldnt mind donating or paying a set fee.


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## samc (13 Aug 2010)

excellent tank stu  

heres mine, no.1230


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## Mark Evans (14 Aug 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> no.1230



what?!!  

OK, the foreground is a tad over grown, but for goodness sake, 1230?... get real judges.


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## Nelson (14 Aug 2010)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats what i thought.its so much better than my nano,yet i ranked higher  :? .


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## aaronnorth (14 Aug 2010)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats what I thought, the tank is immaculate and much better than a lot of others.

Here is mine at 1147. I have dropped a lot of places but at the same time there was 700 more applicants and the scape wasnt as good as my last one IMO.



I do like AGA though for the comments.  

Thanks, Aaron


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## George Farmer (14 Aug 2010)

I've lost a lot of faith in the IAPLC to be honest.  

The Top 100 are usually amazing, and these are judged via an international panel.  Beyond that, and certainly beyond the 400 mark, there are some very questionable rankings, in my humble opinion.

Seeing Graeme's entry being apparently disqualified, and these poor judgements, I question whether I will so actively promote next year's IAPLC and concentrate more on the AGA and AAC.


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## Mark Evans (14 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I've lost a lot of faith in the IAPLC to be honest.
> 
> The Top 100 are usually amazing, and these are judged via an international panel. Beyond that, and certainly beyond the 400 mark, there are some very questionable rankings, in my humble opinion.
> 
> Seeing Graeme's entry being apparently disqualified, and these poor judgements, I question whether I will so actively promote next year's IAPLC and concentrate more on the AGA and AAC.



it's what i've been saying for ages now.

JamesM didn't even enter and got ranked!


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## samc (14 Aug 2010)

i think my ranking was a little lower than i expected, but this has made me want to do better.

i am thinking of new ideas that i never used too. maybe something a little different in the next few tanks


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## George Farmer (15 Aug 2010)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> JamesM didn't even enter and got ranked!


I may be able to explain that.  When James ented the AGA 2009 there is an option (uncheck a box during the application stage) for the AGA to automatically enter you into the following year's IAPLC.



			
				samc said:
			
		

> i think my ranking was a little lower than i expected, but this has made me want to do better.
> 
> i am thinking of new ideas that i never used too. maybe something a little different in the next few tanks


That's an excellent attitude, Sam.  I had similar perspective with my 898th place (with only 1,100 entries!) in the 2008 IAPLC, although I did moan a lot more than you!    All the best with your future 'scapes!

I will probably continue to enter the IAPLC myself.  Despite the questionable rankings and ambiguous rules, I do still like to compete and see how I rank compared to my contemporaries.  

My aim is to get Top 100 within the next five years!  I think it can be positive to have a focus like this, as an aquascaper.  And until the IAPLC organisers fully clarify the rules on previously published work, I'll continue to share my aquascapes, as appropriate in an attempt to promote the UK aquascaping hobby.  That's my primary aim, after all.


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## Mark Evans (15 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> My aim is to get Top 100 within the next five years!



it's doable mate. A similar aim for myself also. I'm sure in 5 more years, our knowledge should be up there with the best. 

one of the reasons I don't enter now, is because of current scapes of mine are just no where near up to scratch for the top 100


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## James Marshall (15 Aug 2010)

I think that the far east and europe have a very different concept of design, and that it is easy for us westerners to unknowingly create something which contradicts the eastern rules of design.
Perhaps by studying the principles of Zen gardening and oriental culture in general one could specifically target the IAPLC. It could be intersting as a one off, however I feel it's important not to let the contests govern the design of our scapes, we should produce the work we want to and if it is well recieved then all the better.

Personaly I doubt whether I will ever place near the top 100 as it seems the IAPLC is more about large nature aquariums and my scapes never fall into those categories. 
I am perfectly happy with my placement of 608 this year just as I was with 1056 last year, but i am much happier about my AAC contest placements.

Heres my photo "A Door to the Cove" (16litres)


4c A Door to the Cove 2.1 by James Marshall2, on Flickr

Cheers,
James


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## Mark Evans (15 Aug 2010)

James Marshall said:
			
		

> Personaly I doubt whether I will ever place near the top 100 as it seems the IAPLC is more about large nature aquariums and my scapes never fall into those categories.



An extremely valid point James. I never really considered that, but yes, it could well put some brits out the frame...apart from Zig and Graeme when the time arrives.


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## keymaker (15 Aug 2010)

James Marshall said:
			
		

> I think that the far east and europe have a very different concept of design, and that it is easy for us westerners to unknowingly create something which contradicts the eastern rules of design.


My point exactly! I do totally agree.

A very smart man teaching buddhism at a Hungarian university (he also is a dedicated japanese gardens expert) once told me that in order to be successful at oriental gardening (or aquascaping) contests, you just need to know their compositional rules. A rock formation does not appeal in the same way to a japanese judge then to us. You just need to know those rules (knowingly or unknowingly) to use or bend them.

It might or might not mattered for example in your particular example, but if that opening would have been placed in a golden ratio point you would probably have more points at an ADA judge. Same with other stunning scapes quoted here. No criticism meant here, but while they are really appealing to my eye (and I would have judged them higher in our Hungarian competition for example) - the lack of strong visual points and "connections" - lines - so to say might lead to point deduction. Obviously, when I apply to a competition like that, I have to face the facts, that they have an evolutionary line that my creation will have to fit in. I do however agree that there are some judgmental issues over the top100 but hey...


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## JamesM (15 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Mark Evans said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, yes, that may explain it.

Crazy that it was accepted though, as it was also entered in 2009 and ranked 1156! Maybe if I enter it in 2011 it'll make the top 500!


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## Anonymous (16 Aug 2010)

General rules regarding composition that you'll find in any painting/photography handbook is sufficient, beyond that Amano doesn't say we have to mimic Japanese gardens, even him doesn't do that. This is the mistake/trap any could fall in. Good composition and originality ranks higher, this you all should aim for the next contest.

Composition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositio ... al_arts%29

Principles of Art
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_art

What you should do, what should I do, is to think about original layouts (we need some European feeling in our design), draw them accordingly to the composition rules and then start wetting your hands, also forget to trim the plants like an English lawn.  If you are poor on ideas go outside, nature is full of inspiration.

Least but not last aim for the first 27 'scapes beyond that doesn't matter if you are the 200th or the 1000th and of course don't forget to have fun! 

Cheers,
Mike


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## Shadow (16 Aug 2010)

James Marshall said:
			
		

> I think that the far east and europe have a very different concept of design, and that it is easy for us westerners to unknowingly create something which contradicts the eastern rules of design.



That is not entirely true. There are 16-18 judges and around 7 of them are Asia. 

I think more interesting question (at least for me) is how does Amano shortlisted 100 photos for international judges to judge. Does he him self pick the photos? in this case it is up to Amano taste   which kind of subjective


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## zig (16 Aug 2010)

Shadow said:
			
		

> James Marshall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats what I was going to say, only 8 of the 18 judges are from Asia the rest are from mainly Europe with a couple from the USA, and dont forget this years winner is for the first time from outside of Asia as well.

There is a good picture in last years 2009 IAPLC contest book of amano basically catagorising all of the entries laid out on the floor of a large hall type area, I'd this gives a good insight of how its done I would say. He basically chooses the top 100 aquascapes for final judging and catagorises the rest into probably 100 aquascapes at a time until he gets to the final positions. I suppose if as we consider him as the ultimate master of aquascaping, which most of us do, then his judgement should be pretty good! Do I agree with how it done? well not entirely but thats how its done, personally I think creativeity can go a long way in this contest.


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## a1Matt (16 Aug 2010)

The link that Victor posted earlier in the thread (the interview with Karen Randall) gives a good insight into the judging process... she mentions that the judges give their opinions, but the final decision is by ADA.

Personally I would prefer solely the judges decision, but if it is going to be on one persons head (as Peter alludes to  ) then I would want that man to be Takashi Amano!   We can not forget, it is his competition after all!!


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## James Marshall (16 Aug 2010)

There have been some interesting posts made here.

I see your point Peter, the top 100 will be judged by a broader panel, however they will still be subject to IAPLC criteria. Those outside of the top 100 will be judged to some extent by what Mr Amano considers to be good composistion by his own cultural standards.

To address some of the other points

Personally I believe there are massive differences between the design ethos of different cultures, we only have to look at architecture across the world to see this.

I do not believe that placing focal points a third of the way along the aquarium is a prerequisite of good composition. In fact I wonder if this â€œgolden ruleâ€ could be a misinterpretation the â€œGolden meanâ€.

The Golden mean is a ratio of 1 to 1.618 and was discovered by the ancient Greeks and revived in Europe during the renaissance. This ratio occurs frequently in nature and is what Fibonacci used to deduce his series of numbers.

Examples of the Golden mean can be seen in art and architecture throughout western Europe and is normally displayed as an aspect ratio. Interestingly when people in this country are shown a selection of rectangles of various aspect ratios they will usually pick the one closest to the golden mean as the most aesthetically pleasing..

In relating this to aquascape design I feel quite lucky in that my eye naturally looks for a 1 to 1.618 ratio. I do not use a ruler to construct my scapes as I find this stifles creativity. However in passing a ruler over â€œA Door to the Coveâ€ I found that the Golden mean is present in several places, a few are marked on the image below.  

Golden mean by James Marshall2, on Flickr

Cheers,
James


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## Anonymous (16 Aug 2010)

Well not quite James .. your focal point is in the middle    






Cheers,
Mike


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## James Marshall (16 Aug 2010)

clonitza said:
			
		

> Well not quite James .. your focal point is in the middle
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike



Sorry to correct you Mike, but at no point did i say that the focal point of scape was or was'nt at the centre or whether it mattered.
I was simply attempting to suggest that there is a lot more to composition than placing focal points a third of the way along the tank, and that I am much more concerned with the inclusion of the "Golden mean" with respect to general proportion.

If we look at the landscape painting "The Alley at Middelharnis" by Meindert Hobbema we can clearly see that the focal point is almost exactly at the centre, yet the art world of western europe consider this to be a masterpiece. Surely this is worth some consideration.

Cheers,
James


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## keymaker (17 Aug 2010)

I agree with you James. It really does not matter if the focal point is in the centre or at golden ratio... Take island compositions for example. Strong and stunning visual effects can be achieved - and that is usually done by using the gifts of the scaper that you call "a lot more to composition". I guess that's where the "secret lies".

While there are many ways to "construct a view" I personally always use the analytical approach - the "know your lines" way. (We had a discussion on this before and I said there that respect to those who for example operate with gut feelings. I'm just not the type, but let's leave that out for now...)

Focal points in red, triangles in black, golden ratio grey:





Please excuse me for the quality of the quick photoshop work, I only did it for illustration purposes!!! Very important: I do not consider the "new" version better, more balanced, finished or anything like that. I only wanted to let you know what I meant by "know your lines".

For me every picture is a series of anchor points when I watch it, my eye wanders between these points and this movement will give you a strong impression when you evaluate something you see. Subconsciously.

Do the big guys bend those rules, play with them? Obviously. But in virtually every case I can prove you with the same lines that the viewer was "compensated", "conforted", "got explained" somewhere on the picture for the visual glitches the creator has placed over the image.


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## Anonymous (17 Aug 2010)

James don't get me wrong, your aquarium is beautiful and very well done.   

I wanted to say that at IAPLC most of the judges are also photographers so some rules from this point of view does matter. Another thing that makes an aquascape a winner I think is the ability of the aquascaper to immerse the viewer in their work, make his aquarium look bigger than it is using the right kind of plants and hardscape.

In my opinion what could you do now is to elaborate a bit your aquascape adding a few more plants. See the 25th place from last year competition to get you started.

If you want after the winner scapes are published we could start a thread and judge the scapes from our point of view. I think is a good exercise for the next competition.

Of course this is my opinion and I could be wrong but I try to learn more by talking to you guys.

Cheers,
Mike


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## theDiver (17 Aug 2010)

I might be blind, but where can I see pictures of the tanks in this competition?


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## Graeme Edwards (17 Aug 2010)

Keymaker, you have an interesting theory, and I'm sure the more experianced scapers will adopt some of your ideas naturaly. 
I can quite figure out what you saying about the lines. How are the lines you have drawn relevent to your idea of composition? Are the black lines the path of your sight and the red dots where your sight lingers? 

I think, when it's good, it's good, and any number of artist rules and style can achive a wow, it all depends on who stands before it.

James, the scape is ace mate,
very Marshall indeed. I think you need to go bigger soon mate, you will blow every one away when you do!

Cheers


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## Dan Crawford (17 Aug 2010)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> James, the scape is ace mate,
> very Marshall indeed. I think you need to go bigger soon mate, you will blow every one away when you do!


Agreed! I've seen this tank and if it were 90cm or even 60cm then it would be mind blowing!


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## James Marshall (17 Aug 2010)

Keymaker- Thanks for posting that  , you make some very valid and interesting points.

Mike - No offence taken mate  . I see your point about more elaborate planting, I do feel that the planting is slightly bland, however when I experimented with more complex planting I seemed to lose the sense of scale. This is probably due to the small size of the tank.

Graeme & Dan - Thanks for the compliments chaps . 
You are absolutely right, I do need to branch out to larger tanks but i find the prospect a little daunting.

Cheers,
James


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## keymaker (17 Aug 2010)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Keymaker, you have an interesting theory, and I'm sure the more experianced scapers will adopt some of your ideas naturaly.
> I can quite figure out what you saying about the lines. How are the lines you have drawn relevent to your idea of composition? Are the black lines the path of your sight and the red dots where your sight lingers?


Exactly. Every picture has points (areas) that attract attention. You almost invariably have a central point of focus.

Amano has stressed many times on the importance of A-B-C points, A being the main anchor, B being the second and C the third most important element. We have seen many basic examples from him about that, most of the "A" points being central or on the golden ratio points.






The above example is a classics. The golden ratio on the right is tricky  It goes exactly in the middle between rock A and C. Both rocks lean to the right, "pulling the composition" to the right. OK, so we have the biggest and the smallest focus point dragging us to the right, that is tension! So if we want to create something calm, we need to pull this whole thing back into balance by rock B. But we have the strong and the small guy pulling us to the right... How can we balance that with only one element? Easy. Distance that third element further away from the two, thus you"ll have a triangle connecting A-B and C (not drawn on the picture) - a perfect idea. Just like with force vectors in physics.

Also, observe that the central axis (yellow) of all three rocks goes into one point.  Oh, and actually that one point is exactly the same distance from the vertical center of the tank like the focus point A.  Is that an accident?  :idea: 

So thing is that triangles are really important in compositions with multiple focus points. Somehow the mind is programmed to consider a scape "calming" if it's constructed like a bridge in real life, it can stand by itself, does not "fall down". When you look at that particular Amano example, you first spot rock A, then you move your gaze to rock B and then you spot C. But there you are, back into the vicinity of A, the main focus point where you want to be.

So what I say is that if you have clear eye-movement lines (black lines in the prev. example) your job is easy in constructing a balanced, calming underwater composition - if that's your goal. I know it's old-school too... 

To stress the importance of the eye-movement just observe how feature films are edited. If the hero (or car, or anything) exits the otherwise static shot on the right side, and the editor cuts, he (it) will almost invariably come in from the left in the next shot. Why? Because your eye will bounce back from the right side of the image frame, and it gravitates towards the middle, so if something now comes in from the left you only have to go on with your movement to meet it. This will register in your mind as "flowless editing", you don't even register, that the guy actually had a cut there. Editing 101. 

Cheers,
Balazs


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## Graeme Edwards (17 Aug 2010)

This is a good poste mate. Life is about vision, and that's what we are playing with. Understand vision and perhaps your half way there. 
Takes a hell of a lot of skill and mind controls to get a great scape. We should meditate our selfs to get in the right mind for scaping. It takes serious focus to remember all the rules and the natural way of how are can feel, with what are essential simple yet difficult tricks on vision.

This is why I love aquascaping.


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## George Farmer (17 Aug 2010)

This is becoming a great thread.

Does anyone mind if I split it into a separate topic at an appropriate point? ;  "The use of the Golden Ratio and Golden Mean" or something like that?


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## a1Matt (17 Aug 2010)

Fantastic post Balazs, thank you for taking the time to deconstruct that scape for us.

I remember you did a thread a while back where you deconstructed a couple of other scapes (and a photo of a tree too if I remember rightly).  If you have a link to that thread, and/or any other resources on the web also covering this topic that would be awesome.


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## zig (17 Aug 2010)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> This is becoming a great thread.
> 
> Does anyone mind if I split it into a separate topic at an appropriate point? ;  "The use of the Golden Ratio and Golden Mean" or something like that?



Good idea, an interesting subject alright and Keymaker is the man to make it all happen!! I would be interested in some successful aquascapes that work but dont adhere to the golden ratio or the classic triangle idea that keymaker has outlined, contra ratio aquascapes lets call them  would you have any examples keymaker?


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## NeilW (17 Aug 2010)

zig said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe worth recovering this old thread 'Keymakers Composition studies';
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9660

A lot has been already covered in that too.


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## a1Matt (17 Aug 2010)

Nice one Neil, that was the post I was asking for


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## Shadow (18 Aug 2010)

zig said:
			
		

> There is a good picture in last years 2009 IAPLC contest book of amano basically catagorising all of the entries laid out on the floor of a large hall type area, I'd this gives a good insight of how its done I would say. He basically chooses the top 100 aquascapes for final judging and catagorises the rest into probably 100 aquascapes at a time until he gets to the final positions.



Single person choosing top 100 out of 1800 plus photos. Not to mention the printed photo on the floor is merely about A4 size paper and he shorted out while standing. He probably wont be able to see the scape detail from that distance. Thus first impression will be very-very important to get the top 100.


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## George Farmer (18 Aug 2010)

Doesn't seem that tough to get Top 100...

*100th place*


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## Krishs Bettas (18 Aug 2010)

How do you get to see all the enterys? Sorry going off topic


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## George Farmer (18 Aug 2010)

Krish's Bettas said:
			
		

> How do you get to see all the enterys? Sorry going off topic


Not all the entrant, but some...

http://acuariorosa.com/2010/08/10/the-i ... test-2010/


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## Themuleous (18 Aug 2010)

I'm not knocking the skill to get the plants to the quality they are, but the scapes do get a bit 'samey'.

Sam


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## Shadow (18 Aug 2010)

I'm shock


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## Krishs Bettas (18 Aug 2010)

Thanks George


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## viktorlantos (18 Aug 2010)

i do not believe this tank is in the top 100. top 100+ got a a letter to not release their photos til the party. some of the person may did that, but the most of the folks not. can't believe this particular photo is the one which got 100th placement. this maybe just guessing.

that's the letter on the right: http://www.flickr.com/photos/viktorlant ... otostream/


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## Themuleous (18 Aug 2010)

Could just be someone having a joke then, and putting it forward for 100th place but it actually isn't.  Guess the correct photo will be shown at/after the party.

Sam


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## spider72 (18 Aug 2010)

Hi guys.
I am not a scaper, but with reference to *keymaker* posts about geometric (visual) principles of scaping this article may be interesting for some folks http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... l=pl&tl=en It is about basics and is writen in polish, but google translation is not that bad in this case  .


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