# Akadama or Moler Clay?



## Henry

I've been using Sophisticat Pink, but the grain size is too large. Plants seem to like it but its a pain to plant in. Time to change (again).

As above, really. Does one have benefits over the other, or are they basically the same thing? All of the websites that supply moler clay show pictures of an off white grit, whereas Akadama has an orange/brown colour. I presume this means they differ in composition.


----------



## fish fodder

Would crushing the cat litter be an option?


----------



## Henry

I have thought about it, but I'm not too chuffed with the idea of trying to get it into similar sized pieces. I get the feeling I'll end up with a lot of powder and a lot of chunks, but not much usable stuff inbetween. For the negligible cost, I'd sooner buy the right stuff in bulk.


----------



## sa80mark

What about buying a few bags and sifting it to get the smaller grain size you want ?


----------



## Henry

At £3.50 for 5l of cat litter and about £10 for 15 litres of Akadama/Moler clay, it wouldn't be worth sifting. It's more work than I'm inclined to, especially since it took me about 2 hours to wash the scent out of the litter


----------



## greenink

Akadama is not as robust as cat litter / moler clay so will eventually crumble. Cat litter is moler clay. 

There's a link early in my 259 journal somewhere for a bonsai place that does cheap, smaller grain moler clay. Great stuff: same as tesco cat litter but unperfumed and sifted already.

I'd make sure I put a good sprinkling of Osmocote underneath in any new tank now though.


----------



## Henry

I found somewhere pretty darn cheap, but you've just topped it! I presume you mean this stuff? Kaizen Bonsai-Bonsai Mart, Bonsai Trees-Bonsai Tools-Bonsai Pots-Bonsai Gifts-order bonsai supplies online
I'm just wanting to check that Terramol isn't another substance mixed in.

So moler clay/cat litter has a few good years in it before it crumbles?


----------



## Henry

Nice tank by the way. Some very interesting methods going on in it


----------



## greenink

Yup that's the stuff. Is just tesco cat litter bit unperfumed. I've had it a couple of years and its not crumbled at all. But I've never used aqua soil so no idea how it compares.


----------



## Henry

Well, I bought 30 litres of the stuff, and WOW did I overestimate! 30 Litres is absolutely bloody loads!

I couldn't be happier with my purchase; its the right colour, the right size, and it was an absolute bargain considering what I could have spent on specialist substrates. I just need everything to grow in now, then I'll get some proper pictures up. For now, this is how it looks half an hour after filling:


----------



## greenink

Great. If you decide you want to bank it more steeply you should have some left! See victor's latest tank for how much you can bank it - called reborn or something.


----------



## Henry

Never mind banking, I have enough to fill the entire tank! I'm glad I bought plenty though; its only a matter of time before someone catches on and puts the price up.

Still can't believe how little washing it took, and how quickly the water has cleared up.


----------



## lori

Hi Henry

Did you use moler clay or cat litter?? What is on the top, the reddish brown stuff?
How much do you reckon is needed per square foot at average depth?

Good looking tank


----------



## Henry

The substrate in the picture is moler clay. This is the exact stuff I bought Kaizen Bonsai-Bonsai Mart, Bonsai Trees-Bonsai Tools-Bonsai Pots-Bonsai Gifts-order bonsai supplies online. The dark area underneath is just a shadow; I used this substrate on it's own. Plants root really well in it since flow through the substrate is excellent.

The 30L bag has been enough to do my 30"x15" tank, and my 30"x12. There's still about 5 litres of it left! For the price, you may as well buy the biggest bag you can store.


----------



## lori

Is it ok to put fish in with moler clay, or does it need gravel/sand on top, and if so do you use some sort of retainer to stop it mixing?


----------



## lori

I saw other substrate products on bonsai websites which appear on here too, will they all be cheaper from bonsai rather than aquatic sites?


----------



## Henry

The moler clay is fine with fish. I think it raises GH or KH slightly, but I've never had any problems. No need to cap. If you're dosing the water column, there isn't much need to use anything else. Just give it a good rinse and put it in there!

The moler clay on the bonsai link I posted above is about as cheap as you can get. A lot of the more expensive specialist aquarium substrates are made of very similar material, but enriched with nutrients. As I say, this isn't strictly necessary if you're dosing the water column (especially with EI dosing). For the price, it is the best substrate going.


----------



## Henry

After reading one of your threads, I am of the impression that what I've said above may go above your head (if I'm wrong, forgive me).

If you're wanting a simple planted setup, sprinkle some osmocote (available from the garden centre) onto the bottom of the tank (roughly 1 every square inch or so) then put 1 1/2 - 2 inches of moler clay on top of it. In a low light tank with undemanding plants like Cryptocoryne and Hygrophila species, this will be more than enough to keep your plants happy.


----------



## lori

No, I did follow it. Looking at other posts helped, although I  undetstand it I don't  really want to be doing anything  too complicated, just nice plants and a few fish, but I don' t want to set off on the wrong foot , hence the plea. Many thanks


----------



## Henry

Sorry if my previous post seemed a little patronising


----------



## lori

No it didn't, I just didn't want anything too technical just all nice and simple do I could work things out. Some posts made it all  look  too much  like hard work,  and that would have meant a tank even more full of dust and fluff


----------



## Henry

It's easy to get disheartened by all the jargon that flies around the internet. The golden rule for low tech, low maintenance tanks is to keep you light low and change your water once a week. You'll be an expert before you know it


----------



## Mikster

Henry,

I recently got the green light for a 4 ft and that stuff looks exactly what i am looking for, i so went for the 30L, should be loads. I plan this stuff for raised areas and play sand/pool sand for open and lower areas for my Cory's to dig around in.

Should workout a bargain compared to the commercial products around. Perhaps you could start a thread about your findings on this product?

Mike



Henry said:


> Well, I bought 30 litres of the stuff, and WOW did I overestimate! 30 Litres is absolutely bloody loads!
> 
> I couldn't be happier with my purchase; its the right colour, the right size, and it was an absolute bargain considering what I could have spent on specialist substrates. I just need everything to grow in now, then I'll get some proper pictures up. For now, this is how it looks half an hour after filling:


----------



## madlan

I just setup a shrimp cube for testing with the same substrate (fine grain):


----------



## nduli

madlan said:


> I just setup a shrimp cube for testing with the same substrate (fine grain):



How's it been?


----------



## darren636

this stuff looks very interesting, and the price. Kaizen Bonsai-Bonsai Mart, Bonsai Trees-Bonsai Tools-Bonsai Pots-Bonsai Gifts-order bonsai supplies online


----------



## cheekycharly

I have bought a 30L sack of this for my new RIO 180 and I am having trouple at the first step, washing it.

I left the shower head in the bucket in the end turned the cold on so i wasnt eating the hot water and left it running the water for 50minutes and it was still running red the water. 

It seems to never clean this batch i have it constantly dusts the water. Should this happen? and i just have to wait for it to settle and clear.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

cc


----------



## nduli

I didn't manage to get it to run clear after an hr of disturbing it and rinsing. It just went in after that. Was ok ie cleared quickly and has settled down ok with no issues other than it's very light which can make planting a pain.


----------



## Henry

Although this substrate is strong enough not to crumble in the tank after a few years, it doesn't stand up well to be swished about in a bucket. As the grains rub together, they knock off tiny bits that cloud the water (it is just baked clay, after all). A gentle rinse is all it needs before it can go into the tank, just be sure to fill with water very carefully; use a plastic bag over the substrate, perhaps.

With regards to the lightness of the clay, it's best to wet it first to allow the water to permeate all the pores in the grains. Once in the tank, push a pair of tweezers or similar through the substrate to allow it to settle properly, and to remove any air trapped underneath it. Having done this, you shouldn't find any further problems that you wouldn't associate with any other substrate.


----------



## nduli

Henry said:


> Although this substrate is strong enough not to crumble in the tank after a few years, it doesn't stand up well to be swished about in a bucket. As the grains rub together, they knock off tiny bits that cloud the water (it is just baked clay, after all). A gentle rinse is all it needs before it can go into the tank, just be sure to fill with water very carefully; use a plastic bag over the substrate, perhaps.
> 
> With regards to the lightness of the clay, it's best to wet it first to allow the water to permeate all the pores in the grains. Once in the tank, push a pair of tweezers or similar through the substrate to allow it to settle properly, and to remove any air trapped underneath it. Having done this, you shouldn't find any further problems that you wouldn't associate with any other substrate.



Agree with everything Henry has said here, reflects all my experiences. Leaving it for a few days in place in the tank and gentle manipulation to remove trapped air is key. I rushed my setup given time limitations. Which turned into a false economy as resetting the hardscape had to be done 3 times as things moved around as the akadama settled.


----------



## Kev_M

Do the above comments regarding dustiness mean this would be a bad choice for fish that like to dig? I'm not talking about Corys here - I'm looking for a good substrate for  Channa stewarti. They tend to dig a bit once sexually mature. I had them in a tank with a soil base and they dug it up and wrecked the place. I was looking at using Akadama or Moler clay this time, but I'm concerned that their digging will cloud the water too much. I really don't want to be boring and just use sand with plants tied to wood for this one!


----------



## Henry

Moler clay is pretty stable once it's in the water, so digging shouldn't cause too much clouding, or nothing that wouldn't clear fairly quickly at least. If this is still too much clouding for you, consider the fact that LondonDragon has grown healthy plants in plain gravel.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/my-first-planted-tank-the-end-juwel-rio-125.1152/


----------



## Kev_M

I've had success with plain gravel and sand in the past, too. I just wanted to use something a bit more nourishing this time as Channa really like it densely planted. The easiest thing would be to tie Anubias spp. and the like to wood but I'm hoping to avoid that this time.


----------



## NC10

darren636 said:


> this stuff looks very interesting, and the price. Kaizen Bonsai-Bonsai Mart, Bonsai Trees-Bonsai Tools-Bonsai Pots-Bonsai Gifts-order bonsai supplies online



Did you ever get around to giving this a go?


----------



## darren636

NC10 said:


> Did you ever get around to giving this a go?




No

I ended up recycling my old eco complete with a sand top layer


----------



## NC10

Ok cheers, I'm just not too keen on the colour of the clay/akadama/cat litter on its own.

When I saw your link I got excited  I'm not sure it's very good for all this CEC business anyway.

I think I'll just buy a small bag, to cap the moler off.


----------



## darren636

NC10 said:


> Ok cheers, I'm just not too keen on the colour of the clay/akadama/cat litter on its own.
> 
> When I saw your link I got excited  I'm not sure it's very good for all this CEC business anyway.
> 
> I think I'll buy a small bag anyway just to cap the moler off.


Its the black stuff , if I recall.


----------



## NC10

darren636 said:


> Its the black stuff , if I recall.



Yep looks a lot nicer IMO


----------



## darren636

NC10 said:


> Yep looks a lot nicer IMO


It does

I couldn't find this stuff recently online.
 Thought it had been discontinued- but its right there!


----------



## NC10

darren636 said:


> It does
> 
> I couldn't find this stuff recently online.
> Thought it had been discontinued- but its right there!


 
Sounds like you're still interested 

Let me know what you think if you get it before me


----------



## darren636

NC10 said:


> Sounds like you're still interested
> 
> Let me know what you think if you get it before me



I just got bags of Congo and sansibar sand!
 Waiting to rescape.


----------



## NC10

Ahh ok, I'll let _you_ know then 

Just found this thread as well: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/black-bonsai-soil.23543/ maybe @foxfish gave it a try?


----------



## foxfish

I did see some that a locale bonsai enthusiast had, it looks like crushed volcanic rock to me but it might not of been the same stuff!
I did think about buying some BBQ lava rock & crushing that up... just never got around to doing it.


----------



## NC10

Ok cheers foxfish. 

Ive just gone through all the rigmarole of registering to buy a sample pack to find out its £7 postage  Just not happening 

I'll send them an email asking if it floats, far cheaper


----------



## foxfish

Yeah, they are not very good on the postage front & that is why I never bought any 3 years ago!
The stuff I saw was very sharp & not really like cat litter but, I still think a black baked clay substrate would make a great effect & perhaps that stuff they are selling is just perfect for the job... good luck.


----------



## NC10

I had a reply saying they don't think it would be suitable used in the way I wanted. Never mind


----------



## ALAN Wetheridge

Henry said:


> I've been using Sophisticat Pink, but the grain size is too large. Plants seem to like it but its a pain to plant in. Time to change (again).
> 
> As above, really. Does one have benefits over the other, or are they basically the same thing? All of the websites that supply moler clay show pictures of an off white grit, whereas Akadama has an orange/brown colour. I presume this means they differ in composition.


just got 60 ltrs £13.95 delivery think i have enough how long befor you can add fish. Regards Alan


----------



## Henry

I'd say so, Alan  

Adding fish depends on how heavily you're planting relative to how heavily you're stocking fish. With regards to the substrate, there's nothing to say you can't add fish straight away.


----------



## ALAN Wetheridge

thanks Henry not adding a lot just some cardinal small and shrimps.


----------



## StevieC

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum and have been reading with interest your comments on the Kaizen Bonsai fine grade 1-3mm molar clay. I have returned to this hobby after many years away and in July 2016, set up a Juwel Lido 120L planted tank. This was a low tech tank with Flourish Excel and ferts. Substrate was Dennerle Deponitmix professional 9 in 1 capped with fine quartz sand. This sand is very fine and I believe is the cause of my current problems, compaction, limited or no water flow and the plants seem reluctant to produce roots and struggle to survive. Initially, dwarf hair grass grew and threw out runners but after 3-4 months, stalled and died. Potted plants such as sagittaria subulata and pygmy chain swords left in their pots above the substrate grew and threw out runners, but as soon as they were planted in the sand they died. I am very interested in the molar clay but would you suggest placing a nutrient source under it. I see comments about Osmocote, but wonder if Tropica plant growth substrate could be capped with fine molar clay. My new setup is going to include pressurised Co2.


----------



## Henry

Moler clay can be used to cap any base layer you like. Just bear in mind that it's very light initially, so be wary of clouding if you disturb the substrate. Osmocote has worked well for me in the past; can't pass judgement on the Tropica stuff.


----------



## StevieC

Thanks Henry. What quantity of Osmocote did you place under the substrate? After your initial trial of Molar clay in the picture of your tank setup in 2013, was it a success and what were the pros or cons. I just want to make sure I get it right this time and welcome your knowledge. Thanks.


----------

