# Temperatures and TDS for RCS



## criptic (15 Feb 2015)

A quick poll, for red cherries, what TDS and temperature do yours thrive at. Also does anyone increase temperature for better breeding - many sources say 25-27. 

My tank is currently 20-23 (Night drop to day max) and TDS 230.  Having about 1 death of adults every week ... They kind of slow down and freeze before death . Any ideas as to the cause?


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## X3NiTH (15 Feb 2015)

Your temps are okay and the TDS also (as long as there are enough minerals for the benefit of shrimp).


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## Lindy (17 Feb 2015)

You could try adding a little mineral additive for shrimp as yours might be having moulting issues. Do you find ghost like shrimp shells in your tank? These are successful moults. If you are using tap water it is not certain that what makes up your tds is beneficial for your shrimp.


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## crip_tic (6 Mar 2015)

Update: I had two more deaths today in less than 12 hours. I re mineralise with salty shrimp. I have checked oxygen levels and that came out as ok. I noticed the shrimp seem to swim of balance before they slow down and then just stop moving / die. I have tried just about everything - the only thing left is an infection - so I'm dosing paragard and Melafix .... I'm not seeing any moult cases but the tank is heavily planted and could be there but just not visible.

I have had two batches of shrimp - the rill are fine (berried, eating, growing), but the others die in the same order - first blues, then yellow, then orange and finally red .... I just can't figure it out. I've lost about £80 of stock this month :-/


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## alto (6 Mar 2015)

What are your set-up details, including shrimp population estimate?
Listing your tank routine may help identify potential issues.

Be aware that you need to optimize oxygen levels when you dose with most medications & with each of these individually, both have also been reported to (apparently) trigger deaths in both fish & inverts, so start with 1/4 to 1/2 recommended dosing levels, then increase to regular dose if you observe no signs of stress/deaths.

For example:
25% water change before adding any meds, then ensure there is some "splash" with the filter return (not just surface disturbance), ensure that tank temp is not going to increase beyond that 22-23 daytime max (I'm not following how your tank is heated), remove any carbon, purigen etc from filter

I would use only the Paraguard, at time=0 add 1/4 dose; at time= 2h - 8h, I'd add an additional 1/4 dose; at time=24h, I'd increase to a complete dose. 

Thereafter, perform daily 25% water changes (I'm assuming you can match tank & change water parametres fairly closely), then redose the Paraguard
  -  again, I'd add 1/2 dose at time=0, then the second 1/2 dose at time=1h - 2h

I'm confused why you would combine Paraguard & Melafix.


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## tam (6 Mar 2015)

Anything else been in the tank, e.g. plants that might not be shrimp safe?

What TDS are you remineralizing to v. your tank? TDS in the tank will include ferts etc. which might not be the minerals the shrimps need to live.


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## crip_tic (6 Mar 2015)

I have a population of 30 shrimp - Paraguard was recommended on a shrimp forum (not sure whether it was here or shrimp specific) to treat external parasites that might be present and Melafix for bacteria outbreak. I had heard it was a bit iffy to dose shrimp tanks - but at this rate they will be dead within days so Im at the nothing to lose point. 

My tank isn't heated at all - Im running a cooler as the tank is in a hot environment. I'll keep a look out for dosage problems - thanks. 

Im running a low tech 25 litre planted cube. I do a water change when TDS drops of about 10-15 percent for that week. Nitrates/ites/pH all stable and I did an Oxygen level test over 24 hrs which measured out ok as I thought maybe there was a huge dip or something. I've been adding an oxygen stone at night since they have been sick.


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## crip_tic (6 Mar 2015)

- no new plants - the last added plant was about 10 months ago I think (1-2 Grow). I'm running a TDS of 230, re mineralised with shrimp remineralisation powder. No ferts. Fed every 3 days with Biomax.


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## crip_tic (6 Mar 2015)

They get to about 8 weeks after introduction ... then the deaths start. Always in the same order and never the Rilli.


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## kirk (6 Mar 2015)

Hi, what water are you using ie.. How are you preparing it.  The only time I've had the problems your having was due to me adding to much co2.  cherries are tough generally.  Our tds was much higher infact i had no idea of tds until I was preparing to keep crystal reds.  Moulting could be a factor.

Personally I would not put any chemicals in any of our shrimp tanks, just plain old water changes.  Also air Bourne chemicals? Do you use air freshners plug ins, deodorant hair sprays, surface cleaners etc?


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## Iain Sutherland (7 Mar 2015)

if your managing to kill cherries something is very wrong.  Stop adding chemicals to your water... melafix and para guard, then look at your water instead.  Forget your test kits, they will be lying.  Good chance your water is killing them, there is also no way you can test for O2 unless you work in a lab!
Increase water changes, add catappa leaves and alder cones, keep temp stable and rarely feed(once a week tops) so long as plants are present or population gets above 50. odd.


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## alto (7 Mar 2015)

Some recommend against the use of the micro-bubble air stones - I assume you're running air rather than actual oxygen - as tiny air bubbles can be trapped in the shrimp carapace (I'd think it's a rare event but have seen it occur).

I read your linked blog, if these are the shrimp that arrived cold etc at the end of Dec, I'd suggest that longevity is linked to the transport issues (in a similar situation I eventually lost all but 3/20 yellow sakuras ... & I don't consider these to be particularly sensitive shrimp); you also mention raising TDS with Sulawesi Mineral (native conditions of these shrimp are very different than the neocaridina sp's you likely have)  & abruptly increasing TDS from 170 - 250 ...   

Blues tend to be the most sensitive as some lines are very inbred to stabilize the color.

I hope you mean that there are zero ammonia & nitrites in the tank, rather than "stable nitrates/nitrites"

You might read some of the excellent interviews/articles from Chris Lukhaup on shrimp species/care etc

As to Melafix use with inverts, I've seen independent studies that revealed Melafix did indeed reduce water column bacterial levels (affecting some populations in favor of others), fishborne bacteria levels were not affected but (some) general fish health improved re fewer water column bacteria (but water changes performed the same "_magic_"), are there studies showing efficacy with neocaridina?


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