# Tangerine tigers with fish?



## brhau (29 Mar 2022)

Hi all, I'm looking for inverts to be tank/fry janitors in some blackwater tanks I'm building to keep and breed Parosphromenus spp. My first choice was _Asellus aquaticus_, but I'm having a very hard time finding a vendor that will ship them to California. So I'm considering trying Tangerine Tiger shrimp (_Caridina serrata_).

I've read varying reports about keeping Caridina spp with paros:

Some people seem to be just fine doing it.
Some find that the paros eat all the shrimp.
Some are concerned that we don't know whether the Caridina are fry/egg safe. Since the paros are rare/endangered, this is big reservation if it's a possible impediment to breeding.
For anyone who's kept Tangerine Tigers with fish, what has been your experience? Have they been fry/egg safe? Have they been predated on by your fish?

Thanks,
Ben


----------



## mort (30 Mar 2022)

I've not kept your pairing but paro's and shrimp seems to be down to the individual fish in question from what I have seen. A friend keeps other caridina with them and some have been fine over a long period, some devoured straight away and others seemingly turn on them after a while. I'm not sure if it's due to breeding behaviour and maturity changes or just luck but his tanks are all basically the same, so I don't think environment is much of a factor.


----------



## Conort2 (30 Mar 2022)

brhau said:


> For anyone who's kept Tangerine Tigers with fish, what has been your experience? Have they been fry/egg safe? Have they been predated on by your fish?


I haven’t kept them with Paros but they multiplied and did ok with anything up to as big as a dicrossus. Once I added apistos and biotodoma they became dinner. However these fish are much larger than paros. I’ve also had small fry appear in tanks with them but I wouldn’t put it past them to eat tiny fry and eggs if they stumble upon them.

Cheers


----------



## brhau (30 Mar 2022)

mort said:


> I've not kept your pairing but paro's and shrimp seems to be down to the individual fish in question from what I have seen. A friend keeps other caridina with them and some have been fine over a long period, some devoured straight away and others seemingly turn on them after a while. I'm not sure if it's due to breeding behaviour and maturity changes or just luck but his tanks are all basically the same, so I don't think environment is much of a factor.


That's interesting and helpful. I might try keeping a colony of the Caridina in a "safe" tank and then try the larger specimens in the paro tanks on a limited basis to see how it turns out. Cheers


----------



## brhau (30 Mar 2022)

Conort2 said:


> I haven’t kept them with Paros but they multiplied and did ok with anything up to as big as a dicrossus. Once I added apistos and biotodoma they became dinner. However these fish are much larger than paros. I’ve also had small fry appear in tanks with them but I wouldn’t put it past them to eat tiny fry and eggs if they stumble upon them.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks. I would imagine they're less egg-safe with egg scattererers, but my thought is that the male paro will protect the clutch as long as the shrimp are not completely locked in on attacking it, the way tetras or armored catfish might be.


----------



## Conort2 (30 Mar 2022)

brhau said:


> Thanks. I would imagine they're less egg-safe with egg scattererers, but my thought is that the male paro will protect the clutch as long as the shrimp are not completely locked in on attacking it, the way tetras or armored catfish might be.


Yeah I think you’re probably right there. I recon the paros will eat any baby shrimp too.


----------



## brhau (30 Mar 2022)

Conort2 said:


> I recon the paros will eat any baby shrimp too.


That I have no problem with, as the paros are the priority. If they decimate the adults, though, it’s probably not worth it.


----------



## Wookii (30 Mar 2022)

The other thing to consider are your water parameters - Caridina will require a decent amount of calcium in the water column, generally around 5dGH assuming an Mg/Ca mix - that may be a fair bit higher than typical blackwater/breeding tanks?


----------



## Conort2 (30 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> The other thing to consider are your water parameters - Caridina will require a decent amount of calcium in the water column, generally around 5dGH assuming an Mg/Ca mix - that may be a fair bit higher than typical blackwater/breeding tanks?


I would normally say this is correct but my tangerine tigers are breeding like cockroaches in my extremely low tds tucano tetra/corydoras tank. I didn’t think they’d make it but they’ve proved me wrong.


----------



## Wookii (30 Mar 2022)

Conort2 said:


> I would normally say this is correct but my tangerine tigers are breeding like cockroaches in my extremely low tds tucano tetra/corydoras tank. I didn’t think they’d make it but they’ve proved me wrong.



I’ll have some off you if you ever get too many Conor - I have resolutely failed to get either Taiwan Bees or Crystal Blacks to breed in my tanks. Tigers we’re going to be my next (and final) attempt with Caridina!


----------



## brhau (30 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> The other thing to consider are your water parameters - Caridina will require a decent amount of calcium in the water column, generally around 5dGH assuming an Mg/Ca mix - that may be a fair bit higher than typical blackwater/breeding tanks?


Yes, that’s why I specifically am looking at Tangerine Tigers, who might be able to tolerate these conditions. I’ve heard amanos might not last long in blackwater.

Cheers


----------



## Wookii (30 Mar 2022)

brhau said:


> Yes, that’s why I specifically am looking at Tangerine Tigers, who might be able to tolerate these conditions. I’ve heard amanos might not last long in blackwater.
> 
> Cheers



Good to know, I wasn’t aware that could tolerate such low Calcium levels - I may make the move to those myself, as I don’t like having to keep the GH so high for Neocaridina in my softwater tank.


----------



## Conort2 (30 Mar 2022)

Wookii said:


> I’ll have some off you if you ever get too many Conor - I have resolutely failed to get either Taiwan Bees or Crystal Blacks to breed in my tanks. Tigers we’re going to be my next (and final) attempt with Caridina!


I had hundreds and lost nearly all of them when I introduced the biotodoma to the 5foot. The ones I’ve rescued are doing well now so should be should be at rehoming numbers hopefully in the future.

They done well in London tap water too, they’re pretty indestructible.


----------



## Conort2 (30 Mar 2022)

brhau said:


> I’ve heard amanos might not last long in blackwater.


I wouldn’t fancy their chances but you never know….


----------



## Wookii (25 May 2022)

Conort2 said:


> I would normally say this is correct but my tangerine tigers are breeding like cockroaches in my extremely low tds tucano tetra/corydoras tank. I didn’t think they’d make it but they’ve proved me wrong.



@Conort2 - do you know roughly what the water parameters are in this tank you have the Tangerine Tigers breeding in, in terms of dGH? (I'm assuming zero dKH)


----------



## Conort2 (25 May 2022)

Wookii said:


> @Conort2 - do you know roughly what the water parameters are in this tank you have the Tangerine Tigers breeding in, in terms of dGH? (I'm assuming zero dKH)


No I don’t, I only measure tds which I keep at around 40/50 in here. Add a very small amount of equilibrium to my RO water to achieve that tds level and that’s about it. I’m not very precise or exact when it comes to these things unfortunately.

It’s been a couple of months since my original reply. The tangerines are still doing fine and breeding. The females are putting on some serious size aswell and seem no different to when I kept them in London tap water. I’ve no idea why these are not more popular, I’ve found them hardier than cherry shrimp.

Cheers


----------



## Wookii (25 May 2022)

Conort2 said:


> No I don’t, I only measure tds which I keep at around 40/50 in here. Add a very small amount of equilibrium to my RO water to achieve that tds level and that’s about it. I’m not very precise or exact when it comes to these things unfortunately.
> 
> It’s been a couple of months since my original reply. The tangerines are still doing fine and breeding. The females are putting on some serious size aswell and seem no different to when I kept them in London tap water. I’ve no idea why these are not more popular, I’ve found them hardier than cherry shrimp.
> 
> Cheers



Great stuff, cheers Conor. So fag packet calculation, assuming the 40-50 TDS is of your water change water - that's around 2-3dGH. If it's of your actual tank water, then there could be other 'things' making up that TDS reading in addition to remin salts.  Either way, pretty low, so good to know they can thrive in those low mineral levels.

I'll be getting some for my 1500 I think (when I finally get it sorted!), so I can keep the TDS low as well.


----------



## Tankless (25 May 2022)

I've got Tangerine Tiger Shrimp kept in a community tank. At one point I had Tangerine Tigers, Red cherry shrimp, green babaultai and amano shrimp. The lived with a predatory ram for a year or two before the ram died and I neglected the tank for 8 or 9 months. The tangerines outlived the red cherry shrimp and the green babaultai. They're now the dominant shrimp species (I have so many). I think my tap water is hard as I'm based in London.


----------

