# Juwel Trigon 350 build



## DavidW (1 Jul 2016)

I'm in the process of setting up a new bigger tank so thought I'd share what I've done and what I'm planning to do.

About a 6 weeks ago I saw a Juwel Trigon 350 tank for sale quite close to where I live, now I've wanted a bigger tank for a while but have not been able to convince my wife. However this tank had a dark brown cabinet and she's always complained about the light coloured cabinet not matching the rest of the furniture on the trigon 190, so with my finger crossed I said told her I found a new tank going cheap and this one matched the rest of the furniture.

I showed her the picture -





And she liked it, so after a bit on negotiation I got the tank, stand and sump for £75 along with some of the pipework and a few other bits and pieces.




Now the tank had been used as a marine tank and had one hole drilled in the bottom, but didn't come with any of the original light units 

I still thought it was a great deal so borrow a people carrier and went down to collect it.


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## DavidW (1 Jul 2016)

My next step was looking into how to setup a tropical freshwater sump, this took me a few weeks to research but I decided I wanted a refuugium or at least a sump with an area I could use to create a nano aquascape and hose some shrimp. Here's the design I came up with -



For this setup, I would need more glass to create the extra section and I would also need to move some of the existing separators.  Now I searched locally for a glass merchant, and found a few but when every time I said how much glass I wanted they weren't interested in supplying me with such a small amount. I found this quite frustrating. Undeterred I looked into getting the pieces I needed cut from 6mm acrylic which turned out to be really quite cheap compared to glass, and the guys I approached online where only too happy to provide me with all the small sizes I needed.

I also ordered some egg crate to use as separators between the different media.

Here's what turned up -




Now I had a small issue when it came to sticking the acrylic to the glass. I seems that silicone is great for sticking glass to glass but not so good at sticking acrylic to glass, but then was recommended some Gold Seal Aquarium Sealant, and this did the trick.

Here's my built refuugium -


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## ian_m (2 Jul 2016)

No silicone will adhere to plastic 100% which is why you solvent weld acrylic or mechanically hold it against seals.

However for sump dividers, applying generous amounts and where failure wont result in a flood it will be fine.


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## DavidW (5 Jul 2016)

The Gold seal aquarium sealant seems to bond acrylic to glass really well, the bit's I've glued are rock solid. I did you a good amount.


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## DavidW (5 Jul 2016)

I cleaned the tank with a vinegar solution on the weekend and removed the small glass weir that was originally in the tank. I've drilled 2 more holes in the bottom of the tank and started to test fit the pipework -


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## DavidW (5 Jul 2016)

Here's the weir I had made, I'll be gluing this in-place once I test the tank connectors aren't leaking.




After doing a test fit I think I might need to drill another 25mm pipe hole an inch below the one that's there, so the return pipe is below the water line.


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## Chris Jackson (5 Jul 2016)

Good stuff, and a real bargain, I'll be watching with interest!


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## zozo (5 Jul 2016)

Nice..  Good luck with the build.. 


DavidW said:


> The Gold seal aquarium sealant seems to bond acrylic to glass really well


The Bison Glass silicone also does sufficiently and is aquarium suitable.. I got a glazier with shop in the street i live, thats a releaf cut in size while i wait.. He gave me a tube of kit for free the last time i bought glass. Silglaze Neutral.. But after looking up the factory data sheet it said not suitable for permanent submersed use.. I also noticed this silicone is much softer and more elastic when cured. The Bison glass cures much harder and less elastic. I guess thats a big difference when applying it to acrylic, the soft one rips off very easily also from glass.


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## DavidW (5 Jul 2016)

Thanks. I got the gold seal off the guy who make the custom acrylic weirs, he swears by it. It quite firm when it sets and seems to bind all types of glass and plastic. It can be a bit messy and takes a while to cure but when it does it's great stuff, only downside to it is the price.

I did originally want to make the partition out of glass but couldn't find anyone local who would supply the small amounts of glass I needed. I contacted a few firms who said they could supply the glass until I specified the amounts I needed


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## zozo (5 Jul 2016)

I've used 2mm acrylic as deviders, instead of egg crate i also used acrylic, took a soldering iron with pointed tip.. 60 holes a minute..  Well now you already got the 6mm, but it all doesn't need to hold any pressure inside the sump, so actualy no need to make it that thick.. 2mm also can be cut with a stanley knive. Almost any hardware store sells 2mm acrylic sheet rather cheap.. Your sump is bit bigger then mine, the acrylic was € 15 half square metre and used only half of it.. Runs like a charme since last year november, still stands as a house.

You realy do not need such heavy duty material inside a sump.. Meant as a heads up for the next one if you build one again.. 

Ps, What i noticed in my sump was at the trickle side, the water just runs over the edge of the divider. That way the water also only runs down along the divider.
like this, blue arrow




To make it spread more sufficiently over the bio media, i made a ramp (in red) so the water falls down on top half way. Like this. That way it spreads more sufficiently over the media.


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## Chris Jackson (6 Jul 2016)

Morning... I just had another look at this and I'm not quite understanding the flow from the first to the second section? 
I presumed it was exiting from beneath the fine foam and into the refugium section but in the photo there does not seem to be any way for it to do that...

Definitely agree with the need for something to divert the water over the bioballs. You could make narrower ramp than Marcel has drawn and add a trickle plate (lots of holes in a piece of acrylic) just resting on the bioballs, that way you'd get a more even trickle effect and far better access for maintenance.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Jul 2016)

Nice project, good luck. Have you given any thought to how you're going to light it?


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## Aqua360 (6 Jul 2016)

good luck with the build 

I'll be watching closely, I also have a Trigon 350 black; but I've listed it for sale as I simply don't have the skill to aquascape it properly, as well as the difficulty in actually accessing it for maintenance


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## DavidW (6 Jul 2016)

zozo said:


> To make it spread more sufficiently over the bio media, i made a ramp (in red) so the water falls down on top half way. Like this. That way it spreads more sufficiently over the media.


I was thinking about this too. I was leaning towards the idea of having a piece of acrylic with lots of holes drilled into it sitting on top of the bio balls to act a nit like a shower that spreads the water over the whole area. Do you think this would work?


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## DavidW (6 Jul 2016)

Chris Jackson said:


> I presumed it was exiting from beneath the fine foam and into the refugium section but in the photo there does not seem to be any way for it to do that...


Yea, my diagram doesn't make this too clear there are actually 2 chamber in the first chamber one in front of the other. the water flows into the first chamber which feeds into the chamber in front from underneath, this goes into the mech pro, then ceramic noodles then into the foam which will sit on the top, then the flow goes over the top into the next chamber. The design changed as I was building it.

This picture better shows what ive done -


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## DavidW (6 Jul 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> as well as the difficulty in actually accessing it for maintenance


I'm finding this challenging too, getting access to a tank which is so wide and deep is a bit tricky!


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## DavidW (6 Jul 2016)

Troi said:


> Have you given any thought to how you're going to light it?


I've got a thread in the lighting section. I'm scratching my head a bit with what to do about a light. I was looking at the iQuatics Juwel compatible 4 tube light with reflectors for £160 which would produce 160 watts of light but I don't now if the bulbs it comes with are any good or if I could get a decent LED light for that price that produced more usable light for the plants. I'm also not allowed to have a light suspended above the tank, my wife has said not to that


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## Tim Harrison (6 Jul 2016)

I'll take a look


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## zozo (6 Jul 2016)

DavidW said:


> I was thinking about this too. I was leaning towards the idea of having a piece of acrylic with lots of holes drilled into it sitting on top of the bio balls to act a nit like a shower that spreads the water over the whole area. Do you think this would work?



That's building sumps, it's trail and error till you find something that works, it is hard to predict how water will flow if there is need to redirect it. Actualy while the sump slowly gets dirty the route the water will take changes accordingly. I experience this with my overflow syphons, sometimes i hear it slurp and i go look i see 3 snails or a floating piece from a plant changing flow direction. Then i take it away and all is back to normal. Makes you wonder how 3 tiny snails or a tiny piece of a plant can have such an effect on the waterflow in a syphon.. But it does obviously..

Anyway you have to test the sump for a few weeks if not months and think of and change things along the way till all runs as desired.

If you are thinking of making some kind of sieve laying on top of the bio media, you have to make sure i's level.. Since water will always flow to the deepest point. You might want to make it V schaped, with the holes in the deepest point.

For me since i used 2mm acrylic making a ramp was the easiest solution, it's very easy the work with such thin material easy to bend when you heat it with a small penn gass torch.. I can take the ramp off and put back on after cleaning. It sticks on top off the first devider.. But my sump is very simplistic lttle 25 litre tank i used for it, nothing fancy, it also just runs a 110 litre tank.

In diagram it looks something like this. I had some K1 compartiment next to the pump, but took it out again, aint nessecary for such a small volume and i couldn't stand the noise of the airpump and bubbles. 






Note you have your biomedia in the last compartiment, for me it's the first.. There will develop a lot of goo in and especialy bellow the biomedia on the sumps bottom.. This is normal and only telling you your sump is doing what it should do.. In this goo will house the anaerobic bacteria. It looks in your diagram like it is now this goo will be sucket out by the pump back into the tank. You have to prevent that with another barrier of foam..


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## DavidW (6 Jul 2016)

Thanks for sharing your design and sump experience. I'm going to adjust my design to include another lower eggcrate layer a few cm above the bottom of the tank in the biohome area for the good to collect. I'm also going to split the last compartment so I can incorporate a foam layer before it enters the pump area.


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## DavidW (8 Jul 2016)

Got most of my media through now. 2kg of ceramic noodles, 4 litres of eheim mech pro, 5 litres of K1, 5kg of biohome and 1000 bio balls!



 

 

 

 

Got to say I miscalculated on the bio balls think I'll have 400 to 500 left over.


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## zozo (8 Jul 2016)

Your topic made me think of tweaking my sump again, i still had some china stuf laying around to experiment with.. You made me think of the ramp vs sieve, actual both are not ideal.. So i came up with this and it seems to work pretty good.

Still had 2 sets of these, they come with a little spray bar.. Which has a 10mm connector sleave. I never used them for anything.. Thanks for pooking my grey mass. 
http://www.banggood.com/Original-HW-603B602B-Filter-Water-Inlet-and-outlet-Accessories-p-907307.html

Made an extension for my first devider wall and drilled 2 - 10mm holes and did put in the spray bars.







I need one more in the middle to finnish it off. The connector sleave is soft pvc and the spray bars can be pulled off.


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## DavidW (8 Jul 2016)

Looking good. Great idea


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## DavidW (9 Jul 2016)

Got round to making the adjustments to the sump today and built the lid and shower tray to go on top of the bio balls, still need to drill holes in the lid an the drip holes in the shower tray.



This is the last compartment, where the pump sits. I've separated it now so foam will go in the first smaller section before it gets to the pump.



 



Here's the first compartment, in the second pic the water enters on the right side, then passes to the left going through eheim mech pro, ceramic noodles and foam before entering the next compartment.





This is the lid to my sump.





This is the shower drip tray, once the sealants set I'll get the holes drilled.


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## DavidW (31 Jul 2016)

Ok, so I managed to start putting everything together today inside my house. I've moved my Trigon 190 to make way for the 350.




I've fitted the sump plumbing now, everything went surprisingly smoothly 





Still got a few tweaks to make but made good progress this afternoon


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## Ryan Thang To (1 Aug 2016)

looking good so far. i like the sump. never had one before interested to try oneday

cheers
ryan


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## Daveslaney (1 Aug 2016)

Looks good to me too.Nice work with the acrlic.
The discus in your 190 look fantastic will look great in the bigger tank.


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## DavidW (1 Aug 2016)

legytt said:


> never had one before interested to try oneday


This is my first sump too. When I bought the tank it came with the sump tank but no pipework, so I thought I'd give it a try  I was originally a bit worried about the possibility of a flood, but the way it setup it unlikely for this to happen, I've got a main drain and an emergency overflow. If by some change they both get blocked given the sump design the water that will get pumped into the tank from the sump isn't enough to cause it to overflow and my pump has a build in sensor which turns it off if it runs dry.

In theory it should all work. Only way to be sure is to test it fully which I should get round to this week fingers crossed


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## DavidW (1 Aug 2016)

Daveslaney said:


> Looks good to me too.Nice work with the acrlic.
> The discus in your 190 look fantastic will look great in the bigger tank.


Thanks, I'm looking forward to getting it all finished and then moving the discus. Once there across I'll be selling the Trigon 190.


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## DavidW (1 Aug 2016)

Tonight I fitted a 3D rock background


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## dean (1 Aug 2016)

Where did you get the Rock background 


Regards
Dean


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## DavidW (1 Aug 2016)

dean said:


> Where did you get the Rock background


I got it from Aqua Maniacs. I contacted them and told them what I wanted and gave them a drawing with sizes and they made it for me.


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## DavidW (2 Aug 2016)

Took the bracing off this morning


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## DavidW (3 Aug 2016)

I started setting up the rock scape last night.



 



 

I've got 2 x 9 litre bags of soil and 1 x 3 litre bag of base left over, I think I drastically over estimated how much substrate I needed lol.


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## dean (5 Aug 2016)

Which Sump pump are you using ?


Regards
Dean


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## Manisha (5 Aug 2016)

DavidW said:


> I started setting up the rock scape last night.
> 
> View attachment 86487 View attachment 86488View attachment 86490
> 
> I've got 2 x 9 litre bags of soil and 1 x 3 litre bag of base left over, I think I drastically over estimated how much substrate I needed lol.



Looking great so far! Love your rock ☺ There's is only one thing to do with extra soil...keep it for the next tank!


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## DavidW (5 Aug 2016)

dean said:


> Which Sump pump are you using ?


I'm using a Jecod DCS3000


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## DavidW (6 Aug 2016)

Manisha said:


> Looking great so far! Love your rock ☺ There's is only one thing to do with extra soil...keep it for the next tank!


Thanks, I'm already planning the next tank


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## DavidW (7 Aug 2016)

I've added the wood now and got the final layout sorted -




I tested the sump the other night and the inlet can handle the return pump and full speed and then some. I'm having to re-think how many foam layers I have in the sump it's restricting the flow through the sump and means I can only have the pump running at 900lph.

I think I will need to do a fare bit of fine tuning on the sump media and flow before I get the right setup. As you can see from the picture my weir is leaking a bit so I need to reseal this before I plant and put water in.


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## DavidW (9 Aug 2016)

Order the plants last night. Thanks to Dave from Aquarium Gardens for helping me with plant selection based on my water parameters.


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## DavidW (11 Aug 2016)

Well started planting the tank last night and took a lot longer than I thought it would I was up till 2am!





Will upload more pics of the fully planted tank soon, just tweaking my sump today





I'm happy to say it is currently running at about 2000lph at the moment but can handle the sump at full speed which is 3000lph and my overflow can handle about twice that so I've has to close it quite a bit to stop too much water flowing into the sump and causing a flood.


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## DavidW (12 Aug 2016)

Have had a slight setback this evening. my solvent weld feed pipe failed where it joins the non return valve. I've tried re-gluing it but it's not holding. I've put a load of sealant over the joint and hopefully that will hold until I get some replacement pipe parts.

Going to ring a couple of placed tomorrow to see if anyone can guarantee Saturday delivery. All I need is a 32mm valve end and a 32mm to 25mm reducer.


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

Ok have fixed the pipe now. Here's the bit that started leaking and my attempt to patch it up




Here's the sump after I fixed it, all back in working order 


 



Here's the fully planted tank, it a couple of days old and I'm guessing once everything settles down and the sump matures the water will get much clearer.




My tank readings after 2 days are:-

NO3 : 10
NO2: 0
GH: 7
KH: 4.5
PH: 6
CO2: 35 (I've turned the CO2 down a bit now)

I think my CO2 drop checkers liquid may be out of date. It showing blue but with a reading of 35 shouldn't it be green?


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## dean (13 Aug 2016)

Nice set up 
I'd say that there's more than  enough filter material needed for a freshwater tank of that size 
There's less filter material in pond filter units for something 10 times the volume 

I hope your going to put more than a few tetras and some shrimp in it 


Regards
Dean


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## Timon Vogelaar (13 Aug 2016)

I'm not a pro at testing but i never tested my CO2 as in a number. Just always use premixed 4dkh from CO2art. 
http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections...ucts/aquarium-co2-drop-checker-solution-100ml
I got this one over a year now and i believe it still indicates properly. I keep the colour very near yellow giving algae no chance of growing.

Is there a reason you didnt include testing NH3/NH4?
The soil will give off NH3 and its good to do big water changes the first week(s) depending on the value (between 50% and 90%). Probably you have a PH of 6 because of the NH3. When it is "gone" you wil probably get around 7.

Your NO3 level suprised me since you are starting up your filter. I thought it would be higher because your nitrifying bacteria colony has to build up from scratch. Or did u use a filter medium like seachem?


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

dean said:


> I hope your going to put more than a few tetras and some shrimp in it


Thanks. I've got 9 discus which are moving across and they'll be joined by a couple of new discus and lots of tetra


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

Timon Vogelaar said:


> Is there a reason you didnt include testing NH3/NH4?


I'm using the JBL Proscan it doesn't have NH3/4 but I will check with one of mother test kits.


Timon Vogelaar said:


> Your NO3 level suprised me since you are starting up your filter


I've added lots of bacterial balls which came with the filter media I bought. Plus added some filter material from my existing mature canister filter from my trigon 190 tank


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## Manisha (13 Aug 2016)

I'm liking the set up so far!  Although would it help you to separate the sand and substrate with some small rocks to avoid mixing?


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

Manisha said:


> Although would it help you to separate the sand and substrate with some small rocks to avoid mixing


I did have them better separated but I decided to do the hardscape before I tested the new sump  that was a mistake! as I was testing the weir capacity vs sump capacity the weir overflowed into the tank causing some of the soil to flow over the rocks down into the sand layer. I've got loads more sand so I'm going to top up the sand layer after I dig try to get as much of the overflowed soil out


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## Manisha (13 Aug 2016)

Looks fabulous anyway


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

Thanks, It's taken me about 4 months to plan and build. I've kept fish for longer than I can remember, but this I the first tank I've actually planned out exactly what I was going to do and what plants I was going to use. I did have some much appreciated help from Dave at Aquarium Gardens, I gave him a list of my tank parameters and he put together a list of what plants would survive and suggestions based of scapes I like.

This is the first time I've built a sump and I've loved building it but it been a massive learning curve and I still need to make a couple of teaks if I don't want a flood if there's a power cut , just now trying to decide if I should lower the tank level, cover some of the weir inlet or go for something over the top like have a flap that closes if the flow from the pump stops


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## dean (13 Aug 2016)

Which lighting did you go with 


Regards
Dean


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## DavidW (13 Aug 2016)

dean said:


> Which lighting did you go with


On the main tank, I've got the standard 55cm trigon rear unit with 2 x 24 watt bulbs, the front light unit is an iQuatics 4 tube unit with 2 x 45 watt and 2 x 35 watt tubes so about 208 watts of T5 lighting all together which I'm hoping will allow me to grow most plants. For the refugium in the sump I managed to snipe an Azoo Flexi Mini LED light on an ebay auction for a quarter of the retail price


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## Tim Harrison (13 Aug 2016)

Nice project, great to see it all coming together


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## DavidW (14 Aug 2016)

Tim Harrison said:


> Nice project, great to see it all coming togethe


Thanks


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## DavidW (14 Aug 2016)

Timon Vogelaar said:


> Is there a reason you didnt include testing NH3/NH4


Just took the reading and it's at 4. I'm going to do 90 litre water changes every day while the tank cycles.


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## DavidW (16 Aug 2016)

My thoughts on the CAL AQUA LABS Green Base and Black Earth Premium I used in my setup. 

I also used some JBL Proscape Volcano Mineral as the very bottom layer, then covered it with the Green Base. 3 litres of Green base is nearly the same price of 9 litres of the JBL, but there are added bacteria etc in the green base. The  Black Earth itself is very well priced compared to ADA Amazonia and Tropica Soil. I got the Black Earth from Aquasabi I bought 4 bags and the price was £28.90 per bag the soil ranges in size from smaller than 1mm to 4mm I like the appearance of the soil and it's easy to plant in and to scape with, for the built up areas I used some 2mm black correx to stop the soil sliding too much.

I used a plant sprayer to soak the soil then cover the planted scape with kitchen towel and soaked that with the sprayer too before I started to fill the tank with water. I was initially worried that the soil might float as it hadn't been pre soaked but I was pleasantly surprised that only a very tiny amount floated and when I tapped the floating soil it sank straight away.

So far my plants seem to be doing well, although it is very early days but I have noticed some good growth on the Limnophia Aromatica already 

Now according to Cal Aqua Labs, Black Earth Premium doesn't leak high levels of ammonia into the tank, I'm not sure how true this is as I've got Ammonia readings of 4 on my API Ammonia test kit. Anyway the tank is cycling nicely and I'll keep you all updated as to how the plants do in this base / soil combo.


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## DavidW (17 Aug 2016)

Been doing 40% water changes every 2 days and now my Ammonia levels are down to 1.  Most of my plants are growing well, the exception being the eleocharis both dwarf and normal varieties, some of the parts I separated out are going well and some are turning yellow. I've also go the white fluffy fungus growing on the bogwood which I've had before on wood when starting a new tank up and this usually goes ones the filter has established itself, but I'm also getting some brown fluffy bits too which I've not had before. I think this may be algae and may be down to me having all the lights on giving 208 watts for 8 hours a day, so I'm switching 2 of the light units off leaving just the 48 watt unit on for the next few days. I'm hoping this will help solve this issue I'm also turning my CO2 up.

This is all going to be a bit of trial an error. If anyone has had this brown fluffy stuff and knows a way to get rid of it please let me know. Also any tips on the eleocharis would be appriciated.


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## Timon Vogelaar (18 Aug 2016)

DavidW said:


> Been doing 40% water changes every 2 days and now my Ammonia levels are down to 1.  Most of my plants are growing well, the exception being the eleocharis both dwarf and normal varieties, some of the parts I separated out are going well and some are turning yellow. I've also go the white fluffy fungus growing on the bogwood which I've had before on wood when starting a new tank up and this usually goes ones the filter has established itself, but I'm also getting some brown fluffy bits too which I've not had before. I think this may be algae and may be down to me having all the lights on giving 208 watts for 8 hours a day, so I'm switching 2 of the light units off leaving just the 48 watt unit on for the next few days. I'm hoping this will help solve this issue I'm also turning my CO2 up.
> 
> This is all going to be a bit of trial an error. If anyone has had this brown fluffy stuff and knows a way to get rid of it please let me know. Also any tips on the eleocharis would be appriciated.



On the brown fluffyness;
It's hard to tell if its brown algae without seeing a picture from your side. Brown algae is common in startup tanks. Good that you refreshed your water that is very important to get your water values in order. My advise is to clean the algae and fungus and to keep doing water changes till amonia, nitrates, nitrites, ph, kh, gh and phosphates are in order. Your bacteria colony and plants need to take over for perfect balance and you help it by doing changes and adding bacteria.

I have Eleocharis sp. Mini. I don't know if you guys call that one dwarf. Maybe its Parvula you have wich is slightly bigger. Anyways; Did you trim it before planting? Submersed growth must change to merged growth and my experience with Eleocharis is that in the beginning the submerged will die off, even when you trimmed it. I also have Eleocharis planted near the glass and it is really cool to see that it is going too root properly first.

So in my honest opinion;
- Raise co2
- Keep giving ferts (in my opinion, when starting up, no nitrates and phosphates but maybe that one is frowned upon)
- Dont lower your light but do not give more then eight hours.
- Keep doing 50 til 90% water changes til values are okay
- When the dwarf eleocharis reaches 2-4 cm it is ok to trim it to let it carpet. Keeps it young and fresh
- Remove the algae ect

I think that it might be useful to see my journal and see my eleocharis growth and how my water values are.
Good luck!


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## DavidW (18 Aug 2016)

H


Timon Vogelaar said:


> So in my honest opinion;
> - Raise co2
> - Keep giving ferts (in my opinion, when starting up, no nitrates and phosphates but maybe that one is frowned upon)
> - Dont lower your light but do not give more then eight hours.
> ...


Hi thanks for the info. I've increased my CO2 I'll switch all light back on when I get home. I'm adding TMC complete ferts every time I do a water change. I'll be switching to macro / micro ferts one I've run out of the tmc and am considering getting a Jacoed dosing pup. I also took the wood out of the tank last night and scrapped the brown stuff off it.

I didn't trim he dwarf hair grass before planting, they were from tissue cultures and only about 1-2cm when I planted.

My ammonia level has been halving every 2 days, and  I've been adding bacteria with every water change. My K1 has started tumbling so so I recon the bacteria has started to colonise


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## DavidW (20 Aug 2016)

Just tested my tank and the ammonia levels have dropped to nearly zero, the test is showing yellow  so am thinking about introducing a few fish like bleeding heart tetra and oto's. Will do a partial water change to get the NO2 and NO3 levels down first.

NO3 is at 40mg/l
NO2 is at 1.0 mg/l
KH is 3
PH is 6.4
Chlorine is 0
CO2 less than 15

I'm not quite sure what's happening with the CO2 my test stick is showing less than 15 and my drop test is still blue, but my bubble count is at 1 per second. How can I tell is the CO2 is making it into the tank, I've got the CO2 plumbed in like this -





My pump is running at over 2500 lph.

Here's what my tank look like after about a week -





As you can see some of the dwarf hair grass is looking a bit worse for ware and the larger variety has gone completely brown  I was reading that this happens as the plant gets use to immersed growing conditions. Is there anything I can do so they improve?
The rest of the plants seems to be doing very well


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## Timon Vogelaar (20 Aug 2016)

DavidW said:


> Just tested my tank and the ammonia levels have dropped to nearly zero, the test is showing yellow  so am thinking about introducing a few fish like bleeding heart tetra and oto's. Will do a partial water change to get the NO2 and NO3 levels down first.
> 
> NO3 is at 40mg/l
> NO2 is at 1.0 mg/l
> ...




Couple tips here:
(Please note, this is what i would do. You and other may think different)
- The plants and bacteria in combination with changing water managed to maintain zero ammonia level. This is a very good sign. 
- Next up is a NO3 rise, this is common to follow after NH3. Keep changing water till you get a zero there. Like i said earlier; big water changes speed it up!
- My advise is to think about livestock, don't place it yet. Your values are not in order yet. When you change water you lower NO3, but note that the next day it must also be low. If its not, your not done establishing your new tank yet.
- About the dwarf gras i requote my earlier comment; 





> - When the dwarf eleocharis reaches 2-4 cm it is ok to trim it to let it carpet. Keeps it young and fresh.


- I don't understand your drawing of your inline co2. Your outgoing flow should be looking like this:


 
If it is an "UP inline diffuser" it should create a fine mist. Your conclusion is right; the CO2 lever is to low. I keep it very high when i startup a new aquarium. With high i mean; 2-3 bubbles per minute. 
If you have unbalanced CO2 your at high risk for more errors to occur!
Does your inline look like the picture above?


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## DavidW (20 Aug 2016)

Timon Vogelaar said:


> I don't understand your drawing of your inline co2. Your outgoing flow should be looking like this:


The tank return on my sump is 25mm pressure pipe my inline diffuser is 16/22mm so I had to T off the main pipe so I didn't restrict the flow from the sump return pump. I can see loads of tiny bubbles in my tank coming from the return outlet and I can see some tiny bubbles sticking to some of the plants and moss but my drop checker is still showing a blueish colour.


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## Timon Vogelaar (20 Aug 2016)

DavidW said:


> The tank return on my sump is 25mm pressure pipe my inline diffuser is 16/22mm so I had to T off the main pipe so I didn't restrict the flow from the sump return pump. I can see loads of tiny bubbles in my tank coming from the return outlet and I can see some tiny bubbles sticking to some of the plants and moss but my drop checker is still showing a blueish colour.


Then thats the problem!

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## Daveslaney (20 Aug 2016)

turn your co2 up when i used a inline diffuser my bubble rate was uncountable.So i wouldnt think one bubble a second is enough.


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## Daveslaney (20 Aug 2016)

do you have a valve on your main return line between the points where you have teed off for your diffuser.


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## DavidW (20 Aug 2016)

Daveslaney said:


> do you have a valve on your main return line between the points where you have teed off for your diffuser.


Yes there's a non return valve before the return pipe goes into the tank.


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## Daveslaney (20 Aug 2016)

I cant draw diagrams on here. But on your diagram where you have T off for your co2 diffuser you just show your 25mm pipe and a tee of for the 16 mm where your co2 diffuser is. You need to put a ball valve on your 25mm pipe line inbetween the inlet and outlet 16mm tee and ajust it to get some flow to run around your 16mm tee.
Or your return water will just take the course of least resistance back to your tank witxh is your 25mm line. So you will get little or no flow round your 16mn tee. This could also be the reason you are getting no co2 into your tank. Hope that makes sence.


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## DavidW (21 Aug 2016)

Think I will get an in tank diffuser and place in next to the return pump inlet.


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## zozo (21 Aug 2016)

I guess it's the 16mm bypass (shunt) restricting a lot of flow in the diffuser and probably not diffusing very good in the main line..  Every bubbly you see is non diffused co2 which only will pop the surface and gass out in the atmosphere. It is actualy the high flow in the diffuser and behind it making the co2 diffuse even more suficiently. Now it's more likely to accumulate co2 into the bypass where flow is reduced where it wont disoleve into the water.

If your main line is 25mm PN16 PVC (=21mm internal) and the diffuser is 16mm (internal).. I would give it a go to just put the diffuser directly inline.. And see what it does with the flow speed.. It still might be more than sufficient. Actualy this should diffuse co2 very good, since the diffuser will also function as a venturi.. And diffusing co2 via venturi is oftenly used in very large aquariums as discussed in the topic about Amano's Forest under water in lisbon which also is constructed with a venturi diffuser. And sceintific tests have revealed its also is more sufficient in very small low flow setups.

Here is a pic of a venturi diffuser from Mazzei. Where the co2 is injected at the suction connector.. 




Theoreticaly if you put your 16mm diffuser in the 21mm line it will function as a venturi.. If you pump can handle it and the flow isn't reduced to much you should be OK and diffusing even more sufficient.

The least thing you can do is give it a try and see how it works. 

Here you see how such an injector is installed and works. 



Only thing you are missing to replicate this is the valve in the main line to get flow in the bypass.


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## zozo (21 Aug 2016)

This should fix it.. 

Play with the valve to get sufficient flow in the diffuser


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## DavidW (21 Aug 2016)

Ok, so after the advice and while doing my latest water change I've adjusted how the inline diffuser is setup -




I couldn't get hold od a valve quickly so I've improvised by sliding a smaller tight fitting pipe inside the 25mm pipe so now the diameter is 16mm same as the pipe with the inline diffuser in, and I have noticed an immediate difference inside the tank. There is now a haze of tiny bubbles. Hopefully you can see them in this picture



 



Also just took another reading and the NO2 is down to 0.5 mg/l and the NO3 is down to 25 mg/l


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## Daveslaney (21 Aug 2016)

Looks good to me.


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## DavidW (21 Aug 2016)

The drop checkers gone a greeny yellow too. Hopefully now the algae that has started to grow will disappear.


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## DavidW (21 Aug 2016)

The Hydrocotyle tripartita Japan plants I have in the tank are pearling now 





Yet my JBL Proscan test strip still says there's less than 15 mg/l


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## DavidW (22 Aug 2016)

I'm happy to say my tank has now cycled 

Latest readings

Ammonia : 0
NO3 : 10 mg/l
NO2 : 0 mg/l
GH : 5
KH : 3
PH : 6.4
CO2 : 35 mg/l

I am having a bit of a problem with algae but now my tank has cycled I'm hoping this will go away. I'm also going to introduced about 10 oto's and amano shrimp in the next few days.


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## DavidW (23 Aug 2016)

Have added some Oto's, Amano shrimp and a few cardinal tetra now. The oto's and amano's have wasted no time and are cleaning the tank. I did try to take out as much algae as I could but it kept disintegrating on touch.
Tomorrow I'm going to check the tank parameters again and if there still good I'm going to add some more oto's.

I was thinking of having a total of 10 Oto's. What's the recommended number of Amano shrimp for a 350 litre planted tank?


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## Daveslaney (24 Aug 2016)

AE recomened one every 10 ltr.Apparently they have little impact on your stocking levels.
I have around 20 in my 250ltr tank.


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## DavidW (24 Aug 2016)

Daveslaney said:


> one every 10 ltr


I currently have 2! so will  need at least 28 more   Were's the best place to get larger amano shrimp


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## Daveslaney (24 Aug 2016)

I got the ones i have from the LFS had them a while now. So they are quite large.Kept them with large angel fish previously with no problems.With you having the discus the larger size should be ok.As for best place to get them im not sure. Maybe someone else has some recomendations?


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## DavidW (24 Aug 2016)

I've kept amano with discus with no issues. The LFS has amano's at 4 for £15 and they are of a fairly decent size was hoping to get some cheaper. Seen some on ebay which are a good price but once you add on postage it's not that much cheaper.


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## DavidW (25 Aug 2016)

So it been nearly 2 weeks since I planted the tanks and all of the plants have picked up and are doing well, apart from the Eleocharis Sp it's all turned to mush  I had bought 3 pots not quite sure why it happened to just the Eleocharis SP the dwarf variety of Eleocharis has picked up and is doing well.




I still got a bit of browny slime in the tank but this seems to be slowly disappearing and I'm trying to remove as much as I can but it keep disintegrating when I go to grab it.








I think the tank has picked up nicely and the plants do seem to be thriving, I've not had that much experience using other soils but the combination of JBL Volcano mineral plus Cal Aqua Labs Green Base XR as a base layer covered in Cal Aqua Labs Black earth premium soil seems to be doing a great job. I used Eco complete in my last planted tank and it seems to be much better.

I've to 3 gold rams, 6 cardinal tetra 8 oto's and 6 amano shrimp in the tank so far and my water parameter reading haven't budged. My sump looks like it doing a brilliant job. I'll be fitting a UV steriliser to the tank over the weekend I should have looked at the measurements before I bought it though. It's a 24 watt unit and it's massive, I think I'm going to need to rejig things a bit to get it to fit with the rest of my setup.


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## DavidW (29 Aug 2016)

I've added more shrimp and fish to my tank now. So I now have 14 cardinal tetra, 5 golden rams, 8 oto, 3 discus, 3 emerald cory and about 16 amano shrimp. The sump is more than coping with the current stock level and the Nitrate level is less than 5. I'm still getting a brown alga bloom problem, I was hoping it would have gone away by now but it still there I bought the oto and amano shrimp to tackle the problem, the oto' are busy eating as much as they can, my shrimp however have decided to move to my sump!



I'm working on a plan to stop them getting into the sump so they can start cleaning the brown algae. 

Here's some images of the brown algae -


 

 



I think I'm going to start a thread to see if anyone can suggest how to sort this problem out. I've read lots of contradictory info about the best way to get rid of this stuff.


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## AnhBui (30 Aug 2016)

Get some otto and let them clean brown algae


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## DavidW (30 Aug 2016)

AnhBui said:


> Get some otto and let them clean brown algae


I've got 8 but am considering getting some more


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## Manisha (30 Aug 2016)

Silly shrimp in the sump! Sorry about the algae bloom, the tank & plants look well otherwise


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## DavidW (30 Aug 2016)

I put some plastic mesh over the wier to try and stop them getting into the sump, but two have still manager to get in. I guess they know I'm setting up a shrimp tank in one of the chambers but this was meant to be for cherry and  / or CRB shrimp. The algae looks like is slowly disappearing from the hardscape but is blooming off the plants but at least now the amano in the tank look to be working on it. I also been told to shorten the time the lights are on to 5 hours till the blooms disappear. So have adjusted the light and co2 timers.


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## DavidW (3 Sep 2016)

Since some of my amano shrimp keep getting into my sump I thought I'd make a home for them in my spare compartment 



 



In my main tank I'm having big issues with the brown algae blooms, I was late home last night so the light were off. When I looked today I found this -





I've never had an issue like this before in any tank I've setup. I know this should sort itself out but does it always get this bad? I've physically removed as much as I can now but really want this stuff to go away.


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## Manisha (3 Sep 2016)

Love your shrimp home ☺ That candyfloss algae is bad  can't help thinking a floating raft of hygrophila difformis or hornwort or cabomba or egeria/elodea or something secured to the top left side might help use up some nutrients that would disadvantage the algae & not cause difficulties for your anubias planted there?!


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## DavidW (4 Sep 2016)

Manisha said:


> Love your shrimp home


Thanks.


Manisha said:


> That candyfloss algae is bad


I have physically removed as much as I can and the tank is looking a lot better. I think I'm going to keep removing by hand until it sorts itself out.


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## ian_m (5 Sep 2016)

In my experience algae like this is caused by ammonia due to improperly cycled tank and/or filters (though possibly could be due to exceptionally high light levels on for too long a time). I have seen algae like this where people have add ammonia (on purpose) and obtained the most fantastical hair mops like you have got.

You may not be able to measure the ammonia as ammonia test kits are notoriously unreliable due to interference of other chemicals in freshwater tanks, namely any trace of dechlorinator will tend to give a zero ammonia reading due to interfering with the test chemicals.

My suggestions are:
- Physically remove as much as possible using say a tooth brush.
- Frequent water changes (with dechlorinator).
- Add Prime (or AmQuel+) daily as this will remove ammonia.
- Remove affected plants and dip in diluted liquid carbon. This will kill algea.
- Run with lower light levels and shorter time for a while.


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## DavidW (5 Sep 2016)

ian_m said:


> In my experience algae like this is caused by ammonia due to improperly cycled tank and/or filters (though possibly could be due to exceptionally high light levels on for too long a time). I have seen algae like this where people have add ammonia (on purpose) and obtained the most fantastical hair mops like you have got.
> 
> You may not be able to measure the ammonia as ammonia test kits are notoriously unreliable due to interference of other chemicals in freshwater tanks, namely any trace of dechlorinator will tend to give a zero ammonia reading due to interfering with the test chemicals.
> 
> ...



I've tested for ammonia and it is reading zero, and when I was cycling the tank the ammonia steadily dropped from 4 to 0, I didn't add any ammonia to the tank to do the fishless cycle. I believe it was released from the soil I used. My fish are also really happy and have no signs of ammonia poisoning I have been adding fluval cycle when I was cycling the tank too and used some old media from my mature canister filter. I've been doing 100 litre water changes every couple of days and with water filtered through a HMA filter and when I've been doing the water changes I've also been hand removing as much of the algae as I can, The algae exploded into those blooms once I cut the light period from 8 hours to 5 hours which was the general consensus from my separate post on this.

I'm at a bit of a loss to what else to do, the only thing I have not tried is the dipping in liquid carbon. Would this be ok for the plants and is there a way to dose the entire tank with liquid carbon? Also worth mentioning I have CO2 levels of about 30 in my tank.


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## ian_m (5 Sep 2016)

DavidW said:


> I'm at a bit of a loss to what else to do, the only thing I have not tried is the dipping in liquid carbon. Would this be ok for the plants and is there a way to dose the entire tank with liquid carbon?


Liquid carbon can be toxic to fish and especially shrimps, which is why you must take the plants out to dip. Try at say 50% strength liquid carbon solution first for say 1 minute then place back in the tank. This has worked well a couple of times on some of my plants when I suffer BBA due to over feeding and another time cocking up timer settings whilst on holiday.


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## DavidW (16 Oct 2016)

After struggling with diatoms for the past few weeks I've finally got things under control. I ended up taking all the plants and most of the wood out of my tank and giving it a clean and I also cut all the infected leaves off the plants. I did try dipping some of my plants in a liquid carbon  / water mixture but this went disastrously wrong and killed most of the plants I dipped!

I've now added a circulation pump and am in the process of setting up a constant water drip changer on the tank so the water is always fresh.

Here's the tank now -


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## DavidW (23 Oct 2016)

I've setup an continuous water changer on the tank now. I've got a HMA filter and have added 2 extra units to it, the first extra unit contains SilicatEx and the second has DI resin, this then feeds via a float switch to a 100 litre water butt that goes to the top of my tank and connects to another float switch to stop the water level rising above a set level. On my sump return I've fitted a t connector which feeds to the waste water pipe.



 

 

 

 



There is also a powerhead in the water butt that keeps the water circulating and also helps feed the water to the main tank.


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## KipperSarnie (23 Oct 2016)

I've just bought the same water butt for the fish room except I won't be running a continuous water change.
Only my opinion butI'm sure fish enjoy a large water change, I know it can definitely lead to spawning.
Also a water change gives me chance to clean debris from the tanks.

My parlour tank is also the Trigon 350


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## DavidW (23 Oct 2016)

I was finding I didn't have the time to do large water changes on the tank, It's about 430 litres with the sump capacity included so I was doing 200 litre water changes, I could only do 100 litre at a time and needed to heat the water for a day so was spending 2 evenings a week changing water, which I didn't mind but I was getting grief from my wife so I setup the continuous water changer. I'll still be doing maintenance every week and larger water changes probably 100 litres once a fortnight. As I said I was getting it in the neck from the other half.

I can set the system so it does a full water change of every 2 days or if I get a water timer I can set it to auto change large amounts at the moment it on trickle so will change about 50 litres a day.

My discus are spawning in the tank.


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## dw1305 (23 Oct 2016)

Hi all,





DavidW said:


> first extra unit contains SilicatEx


It won't do any harm, but you don't need this one, diatoms can only use <"orthosilicic acid to make their frustules">, they can't use other forms of silicon (Si). 

cheers Darrel


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## DavidW (23 Oct 2016)

The diatoms have gone now. I took most of the wood and plants out and cleaned them off. They've not come back since. I do have some other types of algae now but I'm managing that situation. I didn't have enough co2 getting into the tank but was dosing the ferts as if I had 20mgl. I've changed to an in tank diffuser and have upped the co2.

I had a box of the silicatEX so thought as you have said it couldn't do any harm so have included it in the setup.

I've also changed the direction of the flow from the tank return so instead of going straight the nozzle is pointing to one side and I added a wave maker on the opposite side to the nozzle direction, I now have much better flow around my tank and the water and plants are already looking cleaner.


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## DavidW (26 Oct 2016)

It's been 2 days since I put the continuous water changer on and the fish and plants look really happy and the water is crystal clear. Very happy with the change so far


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## DavidW (2 Dec 2016)

I've been battling with BBA and other types of thread algae including some fluorescent green fur type. Looks like I've finally got on top of it now. I ended up taking all the wood out of my tank and scrubbing it with a toothbrush. Still got a bit of BBA but it's not getting ant worse and seems to be slowly disappearing. I was reading swordtails love to eat BBA so I'm thinking of getting a couple this weekend.

Here's the tank now.


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## DavidW (28 Dec 2016)

Ok I've been struggling with lots of different types of algae for a while now and have been loosing so I'm thinking of taking everything out of the tank and cleaning it with bleach and liquid carbon. I'm going to save what plants I can and bin the rest. I think I have 2 big issues one is my CO2 and the second is water circulation.

I've been working on a new design for a sump which will help fix these issues. The sump will incorporate a second pump that will feed a CO2 reactor and a media reactor (thinking purigen), I took my design to Atomic Reactor who make acrylic sumps and there building the sump It's nearly completed and I should be posting images soon.

It's got 2 filter socks, a drip tower with multiple media compartments and the reactors in the final compartment.


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## alto (28 Dec 2016)

I suspect all the answers to my questions are in the text of the journal but although I scrolled through a couple times I was still  

I find a summary list such as the one at the start of Luis Cardosa's Through The Forest very helpful
(I believe you can go back & update/edit as well - though perhaps that feature has been lost with forum upgrades)



DavidW said:


> I think I have 2 big issues one is my CO2 and the second is water circulation.


have you run tests to visualize the water circulation?
the CO2?

Depending on your CO2 system (again apologies for my confusion) you might add a manifold & run a diffuser in the tank as well as the sump reactor while you sort out the plant vs algae balance

I believe Juwel has done some stunning display tanks with stock lighting


> even luminosity for your TRIGON 350 with a power input of 2x24 and 2x45Watt.


What lights are you running? photoperiod? fertilizers?

Water change details?


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## DavidW (29 Dec 2016)

alto said:


> I find a summary list such as the one at the start of Luis Cardosa's Through The Forest very helpful


Hi here's  summary -

*Tank:* Juwel Trigon 350 - Corner tank 87cm x 60cm

*Cabinet:* Juwel Trigon 

*Lights: *iQuatics Juwel compatible 100cm unit 2 x 45w + 2 x 35w,  Juwel  55cm light unit 2 x 24w all with reflectors. Lights are on 7 hours a day

*Filtration:* Custom 90 litre sump

*Other:* CO2 supermaket single stage

*Hardscape:* Bogwood, mountain stone

*Substrate:* Cal Aqua Lab Green base with Black Earth soil

*Fertilization: *Easy-life Profito + Easy-Life Ferro

*Water Parameters*
PH - 7 (6.5 when co2 is on)
TDS - 330
NO3 - 20
NO2 - 0
GH - 8
KH - 5
PO4 - 2
CO2 - 25mg/l now (was 10mg/l) according to liquid co2 direct test

When I originally set the tank up I had big issues with Diatoms, they have gone now but I now have problems with black and green bear algae, thread algae. cladopholra algae, brush algae, staghorn and blue/green algae. The wood is the worst affected area I've taken it all out and scrubbed it but now the algae is back worse than ever.

I was using CO2 supermarkets all in one dry salt ferts every day but after testing my tap water I've switched to Easy-life Profito + Easy-Life Ferro as my tapwater has a PO4 reading of 2mg/l and I have discus in the tank so the weekly ferts I use now don't contain PO4.

Given the extent of the algae issue I think my best option is to take all the hardscape out and treat the rocks with bleach and wood with liquid carbon then clean the inside of the tank with hydrogen peroxide and get a fresh back of plants, unless there is a way I can gett rid or the various algae's which are on the plants.


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## DavidW (29 Dec 2016)

Here's a sneak preview of my new sump, not finished yet but should be done in a few days


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## DavidW (13 Apr 2017)

Been a while since I last posted. I've been having lots of algae problems so ended up stripping the tank cleaning all the surfaces saving what plants I could and then buying  new I 've now more or less got the algae under control now. I still have some beard algae but this is only on the rocks and wood and is slowly dying after weeks and weeks of spot liquid carbon dosing.

I found my my biggest issue causing the algae was fluctuating CO2 levels and flow in the tank. I've not made a new spraybar and increased the flow so now I'm getting much better flow distribution in the tank. I'm also running my CO2 constantly to avoid the fluctuations and here are the results -


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## DavidW (16 Apr 2017)

My new sump is setup now and been running for a few months. I added 2 reactor to the final chamber, the first one is a purigen moving bed reactor and the second is a denitrate reactor, both reactors and return feed to the tank are run from a Jecod DCP6000 pump.


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## DavidW (17 Sep 2017)

Been a while since my last post. I'm happy to say my new sump setup is working brilliantly, and the issues I had with algae have all but gone since I started running my CO2 constantly.

Had a but of a re-scape  -


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## Tim Harrison (17 Sep 2017)

That is looking fantastic, well done David


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## DavidW (17 Sep 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> That is looking fantastic, well done David


Thanks it took a while to get the tank settled down and to work out nutrients and CO2 given the hard tap water and the waste from the discus but happy I stuck in there. Also bought quite a few plants from board members which all have grow well.


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## hotashes (18 Jan 2018)

Hope you are still around and well done for sticking in there Davib.


Aqua oak tanks 4'x2'x2' & 5'x2'x2' both freshwater set up on apex Neptune systems.  
Mortgage & Protection Adviser Full Time,
Peace


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