# Green thread algae



## Nigel95 (2 Dec 2017)

Atm having some green thread algae in my fissidens moss carpet. It is not destroying my tank but if I can get rid of it that would save some maintenance.  Higher co2 = shrimp dieing, lower co2 = shrimp a live but more green thread algae. Drop checker is lime green. Using a jbl inline atomizer. Daily tropica spec ferts (2 pumps a day) and low light around 30 par (par was around 40 before but raised the light to see if this has any effect on the algae). Should I go back to glass diffuser? Idk but something makes me think the atomizer isn't working very well (still drop checker is green) just a feeling. Tank is 128L.


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## Zeus. (2 Dec 2017)

Hi Nigel

My DC is yellow and my amanos and Red Cherry shrimp are fine. I have well over a 1pH drop

Zeus


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## Nigel95 (2 Dec 2017)

Zeus. said:


> My DC is yellow and my amanos and Red Cherry shrimp are fine. I have well over a 1pH drop



Hey Zeus,

I have lost a lot of red cherries by playing with the co2. Maybe I should get more shrimps in the hope they can control the green thread algae...


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## Zeus. (2 Dec 2017)

Only use the DC as a rough guide myself to the CO2 levels, they are so slow to change. Much prefer a pH probe, much faster with the result of any changes. You could pick up a pH Pen so to can monitor slight increases in the CO2 injection rate and the effect on [CO2] making sure it has plateaued to the increase and the CRS are fine and not still increasing over time with corresponding increasing [CO2].

The one in the link is the one I got to backup my pH controller, Son has the pH pen ATM 

Be a shame to lose that Shrimp colony you have

What about turning the light down photoperiod or intensity. How long before lights on are you having your CO2 come on. Most folk have it 2hrs. But on my 50l tank it takes 3hrs to get a 1.0pH drop. Its lights on when the pH drop/[CO2] needs to be at its optimum plus if you can its worth having a slightly lower light intensity for first 30mins whilst the plants get use to photosynthesize optimally.

Then theres Liquid CO2 you could use also.

I would go with decreasing the light with your tank at first. You tank pics always look great IMO


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## Nigel95 (3 Dec 2017)

Zeus. said:


> pick up a pH Pen



Good idea



Zeus. said:


> What about turning the light down photoperiod or intensity. How long before lights on are you having your CO2 come on. Most folk have it 2hrs



Been raising the lights higher but no effect. I only turn my co2 1 hour before lights on. Increased it to 2 hours now. Thanks for tip.



Zeus. said:


> Then theres Liquid CO2 you could use also.



Isn't moss sensitive to this?



Zeus. said:


> You tank pics always look great IMO



Thanks Zeus


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## Zeus. (3 Dec 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> Isn't moss sensitive to this?



 some are I think but no expert myself, have a few bits of moss in main tank but not much think its christmas moss. But yes some ferns and mosses are sensitive I think,With all your moss I wouldn't chance it,

Found this *True/False: liquid carbon kills moss?*

Re the Light is it the 
Light unit
7000k
CRI 90
1320 lumens

does the light it work in the 12 to 24volt range ? if so you could get a TC420 to dim the light if the LED chips are dimmable ofc. The TC420 is a great piece of kit very happy with mine.

Is the flow good in the area where the moss is growing, if not that could be resulting in poor [CO2] in the area which leads to algea


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## Nigel95 (3 Dec 2017)

Zeus. said:


> some are I think but no expert myself, have a few bits of moss in main tank but not much think its christmas moss. But yes some ferns and mosses are sensitive I think,With all your moss I wouldn't chance it,
> 
> Found this *True/False: liquid carbon kills moss?*
> 
> ...



I am using a Tc 420 on my Ada 45p with the light you mentioned. Running it on 70% atm tank is clean. The green thread algae is in the 80x40x40 with the chihiros rgb. I am running it on full power just raised it to get a nicer background effect. I am scared if I go lower the plants will not be healthy / grow anymore due really low par (< 30). Correct me if I am wrong. The chihiros rgb runs to much ampère to use a Tc 420 unfortunately. Both tanks have a filter with 10x turnover. So I Should be pretty save I think in terms of flow? 


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## Zeus. (3 Dec 2017)

_P_(Watts) = _I_(Amps) ×_ V_(Volts)
so
I = P/V

Take it your using the RGB-60:

so 50w

not sure of voltage say 12V

50/12= 4.16 amps

and the TC420 is rated up to 20amps. well mine is.



Nigel95 said:


> I am scared if I go lower the plants will not be healthy / grow anymore due really low par (< 30).



but a slight decrease wont make them unhealthy sort term


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## Zeus. (3 Dec 2017)

another thought is how much media and what type do you have in your filter. Clive on here (the CO2 guru) pointed out to me that too much media results in reduced flow esp ceramic media. reduced my ceramic media 75% and no ill effects on tank and better flow.

He pointed out that planted tanks dont need as much filter media as the plants do a lot of the filtering for us, your tanks are like mine we dont have many fish its all about the scape/plants


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## Daveslaney (4 Dec 2017)

Dosing the water column with liquud carbon will do no harm to your fissendens moss. It is only when you spot dose the carbon directly onto the moss it will damage it.
I have dosed liquid carbon in the past upto recommended doses. Here is a pic of some of rhe fissedens in my tank.


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## Nigel95 (4 Dec 2017)

Zeus. said:


> and the TC420 is rated up to 20amps. well mine is.



I was told the tc420 can handle 20amps over 5 channels. So 4 amps per channel. Means the output of the chihiros is to much for the tc 420. 



Zeus. said:


> reduced my ceramic media 75% and no ill effects on tank and better flow



Most of my filter is biological media. Only a thin layer of ceramics. And some blue and white sponges with purigen.


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## zozo (4 Dec 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> I was told the tc420 can handle 20amps over 5 channels. So 4 amps per channel. Means the output of the chihiros is to much for the tc 420.



I guess you have the Chihiros on a timer to control the period.. Than you can still use a manual PWM controller to control intensity. They come in different ratings and actualy pretty cheap, say 12 volt 5 Amps is enough to controll 60 watts.. Just need to put them in the DC circuit between power supply and LED fixture.

DC 3 to 35 volt - 5 Amp
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DC-5A...100073&hash=item5d5fa119b1:g:8csAAOSwAKxWYAp6

DC 10 to 40 volt - 10 Amp.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-40V-10...122397&hash=item2a722e4815:g:94sAAOSwPCVX9dHY

They are motor controllers in description.  But PWM is PWM it doesn't differ, i've used them succesfully to dim SMD and COB leds without any problems. You also could connect a little volt/amp meter in betweem to get an idea what it's doing and how much it's consuming when you are dimming. And have a number to remember where you were at if you ever change it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-0-200V-...hash=item2f0dd7778a:m:mhWsLvr2LKfcxj0781hj6CA

Or have it all in one (without amp meter)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Motor-S...d=182304262165&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982


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## Zeus. (4 Dec 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> I was told the tc420 can handle 20amps over 5 channels. So 4 amps per channel. Means the output of the chihiros is to much for the tc 420.



that makes sense, getting a 10amp supply for my TC420, but will be running two channels at less than 5amps per Chanel.

A PWM as Zozo suggests is another option OFC but cost again


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## zozo (4 Dec 2017)

I guess a TC420 shouldn't be a problem if you never go up to 100%.. Dimming equals less amp consumption, just have to figure out what the limits are.
Also have no idea what over powering will do to the device, it doesn't have a buildin fuse. I would be reluctant to try and experiment with the TC to find out. It might slowly overheat and burn out over time or immediately. I never tried. You woulld at least need an amp meter and maybe start at a 50% and see what it pulls and slowly go up from there.  

Tho i have 2 TC420 in use and accidently did shortcut a channel. it destroyed something in the channels circuit an this channel is now permanently set to about 5% output. Other channels are not affected. Don't know what's trashed, i will try to replace the mosfet later on, that's about it what i can try to do. But for now 4 channels are sufficient. So i'm not in a hurry to try to repair it.


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## Nigel95 (4 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> Just need to put them in the DC circuit between power supply and LED fixture.



Is this hard? 

Thanks for all info Marcel!


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## zozo (4 Dec 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> Is this hard?
> 
> Thanks for all info Marcel!



Your welcome..  And no it's not hard it's pretty straight foreward. You need a piece of Red and an piece of black wire. Or any color you like as long ast they are diferent.

Red = +
Black = -

The controller has  4 screw connectors 2 x input (+/-) and 2 x output (+/-) if it is a chihiros A serie it looks like this.




Cant's see it on the picture, but standard DC 12 volt power plug is 5.5 x 2.1 mm Jack, as you see the led has a female plug and the PSU has the male plug.

Check the plugs on the chihiros if they are indeed 5.5x2.1 mm jack, if so you need a set of these.
https://www.banggood.com/12V-DC-Pow...ector-Socket-for-CCTV-5_52_1mm-p-1118094.html




As you can see the + and - connector are marked the plug. Same as on the controller.




Screw the female plug to the controllers input (DC in) side, plus to plus, minus to minus. Screw the male to the controllers output (Motor) same way.

Obviously only way, plug the PSU into the controler at the input side and the led cable to the output side..And your done.. Turn the potentio meter to dim.. 

The controller does the excact same thing as a TC, but manualy with turning the nob. 

If the cables are long enough, wrap the coontroller to the PSU with some duck tape. OR mount everything in a little plastic assambly box.

Or maybe even beter, see if you can get your hands on the standard chihiros dimmer as show in the first pic.. Right hand bellow..


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## Zeus. (6 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> Check the plugs on the chihiros if they are indeed 5.5x2.1 mm jack, if so you need a set of these.
> https://www.banggood.com/12V-DC-Pow...ector-Socket-for-CCTV-5_52_1mm-p-1118094.html



Used the same ones on mine  2.1mm/5.5mm got them of e bay

Zozo link is to the 5.5x2.5 ones which dont fit the chihiros A series  (just a typo)

These are the ones https://www.banggood.com/Male-Femal...V-p-952843.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

But check yours may be different on the RGB


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

Zeus. said:


> Used the same ones on mine  2.1mm/5.5mm got them of e bay
> 
> Zozo link is to the 5.5x2.5 ones which dont fit the chihiros A series  (just a typo)
> 
> ...


Thak you...


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## zozo (7 Dec 2017)

Or search/see LED Dimmer Jack, several types are available ready to plug in. Make sure it meets the amps needed.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...immer+jack.TRS0&_nkw=led+dimmer+jack&_sacat=0

As far is i know the push button types dim in steps, the turn button (potentio meter) dim stepless


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## Nigel95 (7 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> Or search/see LED Dimmer Jack, several types are available ready to plug in. Make sure it meets the amps needed.
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...immer+jack.TRS0&_nkw=led+dimmer+jack&_sacat=0
> 
> As far is i know the push button types dim in steps, the turn button (potentio meter) dim stepless



I already have this one on the lights. It came with the lighting unit. Someone told me to peak the light only for 2 hours a day at 100% for plant growth and the rest just for viewing light. For this case the tc 420 would be great. Does anyone know here how much par fissidens moss  and buces minimum need to survive?


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## zozo (7 Dec 2017)

Not so much, both can grow at rather low par, but it kinda depends on how much patience you have.  Can't tell you how much, but this is one of mine both growing together, Fissidens and Buce in my low tech.. Pretty low light all i know. Actualy i even didn't plant the Fissidens there myself, it's all  over  the tank after 2 years now. Even this Buce shows new young growth and its for about 6 months in this tank now . This one gets shaded bij plants above it and floating vegitation.Impossible to take pics from this tank without a flash. F8 shutterspeed 20 and flash and it's still a bad picture.



 
 It's mi only Buce not growing BBA, in the other tank it was planted closer to the surface without any coverage and received much more light and alwasy strulging with BBA.


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## Nigel95 (7 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> Not so much, both can grow at rather low par, but it kinda depends on how much patience you have.




My tank is grown now how I like it if I can slow down its growth that would be awesome. Less maintenance! I also have some h. tripartita and crypt parva not sure if this plants like "very" low light.


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## Zeus. (7 Dec 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> Someone told me to peak the light only for 2 hours a day at 100% for plant growth and the rest just for viewing light.



doing a similar schedule with my lights ATM too, pretty low when lights first on 30mins then just lowish for an hour or so, then pretty high for about 2hrs them dims back to lowish for rest of photo period. Not been doing it long. Plus have the TC420 set for very low when lights not on, still use a timer so that I can have lights on very low for extra viewing or WC/trimming. Have tested the TC420 and it kept time spot on for over a week with no power on it


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## zozo (7 Dec 2017)

Same tank  Low tech Low light Crypt parva.



It stays very small, it propagates by runners but very very slow. It also takes a very long time to establish in such low conditions. It took about 18 months to show any propagation. Very hard to recognize darn glass reflection, but left on the wood and right between te rocks is growing a patch of Fissidens..


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## Nigel95 (9 Dec 2017)

I am thinking about to add a few amano shrimp maybe they can help me and save some maintenance (in terms of removing green thread algae). I think all the co2 in the world would not even help me getting no green thread algae.  My tank has low / slow growing plantmass which might be the problem. My first idea was to add 100 more rcs but probably waste they being ineffective in the war.

What can happen with the amano's? Will they eat some moss if they are hungry? Are they able to put fissidens moss of my lava rocks? As they are pretty strong..

Could the green thread algae ruin my scape long term? Plan is to run this tank at least 1 more year. I would also like to reuse my lava rocks with fissidens on it. This could be a bad start with introducing green thread algae in the new scape. Any tips for this?


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## zozo (9 Dec 2017)

Amano's don't realy feed on life moss, at least mine never did. Adding a few wont realy help much, tho i don't know what is a few for you, but under 10 in 50 litre tank isn't realy doing a lot. Problem is if it's an open top, adding more they tend to jump during racing time. They are to expensive for that.
Yes hair algae can grow out of control, you have to stay on top of it. Beeing consistend and with patience you finaly will get it under control. Algae and moss always is a hassle you will always loose moss in the process.

Another cheaper option is Black molly, they are realy good algae eaters, but also hooligans, if it's in the moss they also destroy parts of that with pulling the algae out.   Fortunnately they are cheap and not jumpers. I did put in a group for a while and after the algae problem was clearing i gave them all away for free again.  That's the only way to get rid of mollies, asking a penny nobody comes, advertise with pick up for free all were gone within 2 days. Free is a magic word i got spamed like hell for a week with questions about them.


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## Nigel95 (9 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> Amano's don't realy feed on life moss, at least mine never did. Adding a few wont realy help much, tho i don't know what is a few for you, but under 10 in 50 litre tank isn't realy doing a lot. Problem is if it's an open top, adding more they tend to jump during racing time. They are to expensive for that.
> Yes hair algae can grow out of control, you have to stay on top of it. Beeing consistend and with patience you finaly will get it under control. Algae and moss always is a hassle you will always loose moss in the process.
> 
> Another cheaper option is Black molly, they are realy good algae eaters, but also hooligans, if it's in the moss they also destroy parts of that with pulling the algae out.   Fortunnately they are cheap and not jumpers. I did put in a group for a while and after the algae problem was clearing i gave them all away for free again.  That's the only way to get rid of mollies, asking a penny nobody comes, advertise with pick up for free all were gone within 2 days. Free is a magic word i got spamed like hell for a week with questions about them.



In my previous scape they never jumped. Tank is 128L How many do I need of them for effect? 

Problem with the black mollies Idk if I can catch them when the Job is done w/o blowing all the trees apart lol. 

Yeah free on marktplaats is instant spam. I know 


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