# Old Dark leaves



## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Hi,

I think I have some sort of nutrient deficiency but not sure what.

The older leaves on my plants are going darker every week. New growth is quite bright, but slow. I'm guessing this is my plants telling me something?

The root structures arnt that great either.

Could anyone let me know what my plants are lacking? Co2 is 1.5bps I am dosing APF + 5 ml per day as it says on the bottle. But I fear this is not enough.

A picture if this helps...


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## Steve Smith (9 May 2013)

Check your circulation around them.  It wouldn't surprise me if you had some issues with that large flat piece of hardscape where it is, effectively shielding the plants from the flow.  if you have circulation issues then CO2 won't be getting to them.  Try moving your drop check around and see if it changes colour in different areas.


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Ok thanks, I have actually just purchased a 2nd filter and I'm going to point the outlet behind the larger piece of hard scape. Or I could remove that piece of scape? or move it I suppose.

The pogoestmon at the front is looking tired as well. New leaves at the tips are looking a bright lime green. Lower leaves are dying off. Must be lacking something here??


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Another thing, I can actually physically see co2 bubbles being pushed behind the large piece of wood. I'm starting to think it's not a co2 problem. But I will put the drop checker behind there I check what color it turns.


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## Iain Sutherland (9 May 2013)

hey dave, lower leaves dropping off or darkening is nearly always poor co2 at the lower levels IME.  
CO2 never behaves the way you think (neither does flow!), you may be able to see bubbles moving around there but thats no guarantee all is well, ive suffered similar issues in the past but felt absolutely sure co2 was ok only to be proven wrong once i change something.  Trust your plants not the DC or little bubbles


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Hi Iain, Thanks for your reply. So should I up my co2? Maybe 2BSP will do the trick?

Cheers


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## Iain Sutherland (9 May 2013)

no probs, bit of trial and error really, up the co2 as long as fish dont show any stress, supplement with liquid carbon, change the outlet position, move obstructive hardscape....... any or all of the above, id start with upping the bubble count a little and look at flow patterns.
I couldnt advise on the apf ferts as i dont know them but it may be worth upping the dose at the same time as increased co2 will also drive a higher demand for nutrients and as a rule most premixed ferts ive used understate the amount needed when using co2.


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

Is the substrate Amazonia Aquasoil? The symptoms look so much like what I got in my tank.


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

OK thanks Iain. Will start with upping the co2 to 2BSP. And increase the fertz to 8ml per day (more or less in line with the increased co2).

I have a new eheim filter coming through the post soon. Will hook this up as a 2nd filter and point towards the back of the tank to increase flow patterns and rates.

Would be interesting to know what experiences people have had with APF +. Or the exact make up of the product and what proportions go into it.

Cheers


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Aquadream said:


> Is the substrate Amazonia Aquasoil? The symptoms look so much like what I got in my tank.


 
Substrate is Eco complete.


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

Dave Pierce said:


> Substrate is Eco complete.


 I have the same troubles with all plants in New Amazonia.
Usually PO4 and CO2 deficiency is the most often cause for your problem, but it can also be Iron deficiency.
If the substrate is old dosing Iron should help.
looking at the white new leaves of the Pogostemon Helferi I would say is Iron deficiency. I had the same white new leaves a while back. Dosing Iron got things right.


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## Dave Pierce (9 May 2013)

Aquadream said:


> I have the same troubles with all plants in New Amazonia. Usually PO4 and CO2 deficiency is the most often cause for your problem, but it can also be Iron deficiency. If the substrate is old dosing Iron should help. looking at the white new leaves of the Pogostemon Helferi I would say is Iron deficiency. I had the same white new leaves a while back. Dosing Iron got things right.


 
Thanks, Do you think Root tabbs with iron in would help?


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## Aquadream (9 May 2013)

Yes. Definitelly.


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