# Nitrate high, fish died??



## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

Hi All, (last night)

ok, I have an established, heavily planted 4' tank. 27 fish (now!)

Fed every other day with frozen brine shrimp or dap. (frozen) algae wafers, and pellets for cories. (Did feed live brine shrimp last week, first  time for months)
Cleaned for their usual routine 50% water change a week ago. Today I have come home from day out, 4 dead fish! Nothing on any of them, or on any in tank.

All stats at zero, (amonia, nitrite, PH 8, but always at that)but nitrate, out of tap it's 10/20, but in tank it's 40, just taken 50% out and ready to replace, any ideas please? The only difference at mo is temp has increased to about 27 from 24, that's all I can think of. Nothing else has changed.

Don't really want to dose yet, I have 2 loaches, so have to be careful of dosing. Ferts are just TPN+ couple times a week. Use to dry fert, but haven't been doing so for about a year now.




Next morning- water still same, 50% change, trate reading 40, now I'm afraid that I can't tell you what it was last, as lke you, if tank's ok I don't test, but it's the omly thing I could think may be causing the deaths yesterday? All fish ok this am, but I am out for the day till 9pm, so I can't answer any questions till late.

One thing I remembered last night was that I had a layer of thick algae on back of the tank that this water changea week ago I decided to clean off, do you think maybe some is decaying in tank that i missed syphoning out? Should I try that tonight? Any ideas gratefully received.

Can't think of anything else to tell you, coinincidence of 4 older fish dying?? Seems too much to me, but nothing on any fish??

Many thanks, am around for another 20 mins after that I'll check back tonight. Using API test kit.

Jackie


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## Tom (11 Jul 2011)

Any symptoms? Are the other fish behaving normally? What fish died, and what's left? Is there any aeration? Are you injecting CO2?


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## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

Jackie's partner here.
fish were just dead, 2 floating, 2 part eaten. all other fish fine. 3 cardinals and 1 rummy nose died, 5 rummies, 3 cardinals 5 red phantoms and 5 black phantoms, 2 dwarf chain loaches, 3 panda cories, 2 siamese flying foxes and 2 otos left.

no aeriation (if that means air pump), no CO2.

sophie


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## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

don't know if it makes any difference, all the fish that died were the older ones- all about 3 years old at least. None of the younger ones we added less than a year ago are affected.


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## nry (11 Jul 2011)

A nitrate reading of 40 is not high...dosing full EI has rarely, if ever, shown to cause fish deaths.

I'd be more inclined to consider the temperature change you describe - was this air temp or aquarium temp?


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## Fred Dulley (11 Jul 2011)

This is all assuming that the nitrate test kit is accurate (ppfftt yeah right).
Have a look at this post by Clive about nitrates.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12592&p=132788&hilit=nitrate#p132788

And one by Tom Barr (plantbrain)

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/to ... ishshrimp/

Btw, sorry for your loses.


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## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

Hi, Jay's partner again (she's on the phone)

Just got home from work, 2 more dead fish, one cardinal and one other, maybe an oto.

remaining 2 cardinals looking bleached out and not swimming around.

All red and black phantoms look fine.

Help.  
could there be something wrong in  the filter? should I take it off and clean it?

Also should I do a massive water change again?

any suggestions at all please, we're at a total loss here.


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## Fred Dulley (11 Jul 2011)

All I can suggest is a big water change (remember dechlor, new water roughly same temp as tank water) and can you put any carbon in the filter? 
Make sure the filter isnt clogged (change filter floss).
Make sure no chemicals are getting into the tank.


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## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

Hi, 

I'm back from day out, this is awful, I have no idea what is going in in my tank.   

First thing tomorrow I will hoover again the tank floor, and do a water change. I changed the filter wool last week, but I'l do it again, and check and refill filter. I don't have any carbon, will buy some first thing, whereabouts in the filter should I put it please?

Have set up some extra oxygen for the evening, willl buy some more airstones tomorrow too. Whatever it is is wiping out my fish     There is no way anything can be getting into the tank, we don't use aerosols, etc in the living room.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

J


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## jaycat (11 Jul 2011)

*Fish dying!!*

Duplicate post-sorry.


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## ceg4048 (12 Jul 2011)

*Re: Fish dying!!*



			
				jaycat said:
			
		

> This is a copy of the thread that I started on (water chem) I need as many ideas as possible please. Just thought I copy it as I'm losing fish rapidly now



Please do not double post. While we sympathize with your unfortunate issue, double posting is a violation of forum rules. I have merged the redundant topic into the original thread.

Cheers,


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## Fred Dulley (12 Jul 2011)

jaycat said:
			
		

> I don't have any carbon, will buy some first thing, whereabouts in the filter should I put it please?



After the filter floss is fine.



> we don't use aerosols, etc in the living room.



Good good.


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## jaycat (12 Jul 2011)

Ah ok sorry ceg.  Thansk for leaving it up.

Cheers Fred, I need to say thanks about the filter being clogged, I am hoping against hope that this has been the problem, I was up at 6, and took all pipes to do with external filter of and washed them all through, they were clogged with bits brown sludge, the ones from the filter to spray bar. I hadn't noticed anything returning to tank, but I'm assuming it was giving off nasties.

Just refilling tank with water same temp, and about to restart filter, need a hand as emptied all tubes, and at mo filter not kicking in correctly. Extra O2 going in to make sure there's enough as temp creeping up through the day still. I'm in a very hot flat.

Keep everything crossed that it's the pipes. Haven't checked them for months, need to bring that into my rountine from now on.

Many thanks all. Everyone ok today at mo, not casualities overnight.

I take that back, another Cardinal on way out, very rapid breathing. No marks at all on him. Tank ultra clean, substrate clean, filter clean. Extra O2 going in.
J


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## jaycat (13 Jul 2011)

Still losing fish, another 2 dead today so far. I am taking some water samples up to Maiednhead aq. both my tap water and tank water, I really need to find out what on earth is going on here. 

Have added carbon and just going to add polyfilter too. It so looks like water probs, but.....

I'll update when I have any results later today.


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## jaycat (13 Jul 2011)

When I have the results, my next question will be about RO water, what are your thougths please? I have already performed at least a 60% water change over last 4 days, so not sure about changing too much more?

Thanks,

J


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## PeteA (13 Jul 2011)

Really sorry to hear you're having problems   On the subject of RO water, my fish have been much happier since I got a unit under the sink and give them clean water at each water change.  Tap water where I live is hard and has high Nitrates, so I use RO with Tropic ReMineral, which seems to have done the trick - water seems clearer and the fish are more active.  I now know the level of Nitrates in my tap water shouldn't have bothered/killed the fish, but it does mean that I know the only sources of Nitrate in my tank is my ferts and the end-chain of the bio cycle.


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## Fred Dulley (13 Jul 2011)

RO is only really required for special species of fish. Most of us don't need RO.
Even some Discus dont need it anymore providing that the breeder also comes from hardwater area and uses tap.


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## jaycat (13 Jul 2011)

O well, no news really, all water tests came back fine, good in a way, but not in another, as it would have given me something to work with.

Have finally decided to dose for internal bacteria infection, as there's no signs on the fish, and it's not the water, dosing seems to be the only thing left to try. Use Pymaflex, as I have loaches, so can't use any copper based meds. Have removed carbon. Fingers crossed that it starts to attack something within.

This  has wiped out my cardinals, Otto, cory and rummynose.


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