# Substrate didnt fix it.



## Themuleous (13 Jul 2009)

Well I changed the substrate in my 4ft to eco complete a few weeks back and the same thing is happening with the HC, as you can see.














I'm back to thinking it could be the water?  The leaves almost look burned?  The only other thing it could be is the lighting but given that I've had a few tanks each with different lighting it seems unlikely.  The only consistent factor is my tap water.

Having said that look at the java ferns in my community tank?  Could the high light in my 4ft be forcing the tanks to work to hard in water that is not suitable?  Interestingly strangely enough when I put one of the ferns in my 4ft is really went down hill, only recovering once I put it back under the lower light.





Any help appreciated.

Sam

PS - I'm sure its not the fert as well, using TPN and EI, cant go wrong with that!?!?!


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## Nick16 (13 Jul 2009)

i have just had this problem with my H/C so i just gave it up as a bad job. i guess its something in our water? :/


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## Mark Evans (13 Jul 2009)

are you dosing easy carbo/excel? blasting co2 right at it?


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## Themuleous (13 Jul 2009)

Not doing excel (I shouldn't need to), but I am throwing CO2 at it.  I'll up it to just under the fish gasping rate, just to be sure.

Sam


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## JamesM (13 Jul 2009)

My hc always starts off like that mate... liquid carbon helps a great deal to get it up and running... make sure your flow of co2 and ferts to the plant is good. I found an increase in light helps a lot too, even with a short 6 hour photoperiod.


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## Steve Smith (13 Jul 2009)

It's not the tank or equipment is it mate?  Any of it second hand, or been used with marines etc?  Just a thought.


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## Graeme Edwards (13 Jul 2009)

What light do you have and for how long?

I find it hard to believe that its your tap water. Have you tried RO to see if that theory holds up?

Its hard to see what the plant is doing when its planted so sparsely.


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## JohnC (13 Jul 2009)

Hi,

My 2p.

Lack of CO2 made my HC go grey and melt, not brown and yellow. 

John


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## samc (13 Jul 2009)

if i was you id check my cistern might be something in it.

have you tried some in another tank?


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## Garuf (13 Jul 2009)

Weren't you running your tank with ro before?
Arana had his tanks replaced because they killed everything with what ever was in them.


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## JohnC (13 Jul 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Arana had his tanks replaced because they killed everything with what ever was in them.


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## Garuf (13 Jul 2009)

Water tanks, not fish tanks.


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## JohnC (13 Jul 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Water tanks, not fish tanks.


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## davidcmadrid (14 Jul 2009)

Gotta be honest and say i was thinking blimey ,,, wonder what his fish tank was made off


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## amy4342 (14 Jul 2009)

What substrate were you using before the eco-complete? I never had any luck with it either, I was blasting Co2 at it, 2ml of TPN+ each day in a 25l and had 36w of lights, altough I ran only one bulb at 18w for a while, but still no luck. I was using RO water buffered to 4Gh, 2Kh and pH 6.5. Tried loads of different conditions, but had no luck, although everything else was going mad. Strange eh!


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## davidcmadrid (14 Jul 2009)

Where did you get the HC from ? Is that melt due to changing paramaters ?


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## ceg4048 (14 Jul 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Not doing excel (I shouldn't need to), but I am throwing CO2 at it.  I'll up it to just under the fish gasping rate, just to be sure.
> Sam


Hey Sam, as JamesM mentions, try some Excel. HC really loves the stuff. In fact Seachem should change the picture on the Excel bottle from a Fern or whatever that is to HC. You shouldn't _have_ to use it, but you do. Life isn't fair mate, and not all plants are created equally so there is absolutely no point whatsoever comparing it's performance to your ferns, which are effectively bulletproof. If HC is your priority in that tank, then you need to optimize your procedures around it's survival. Once it grows in then you can normally back off the Excel. You couldn't have picked two plants that are any more different. The fern is the hare and the HC is the turtle.

Cheers,


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## JamesC (14 Jul 2009)

I was pleased from a personal view point to see that it wasn't the Akadama that was causing the problems. I know CO2 has been mentioned many times, but I still think that it could still be the cause of your problems. The signs all point towards it. I see in a different post you said this 





> I used to get 3 months out of my 2kg FE on my 250lt


I get around 4 months out of a 6.35kg pub bottle on my 200 litre tank. As you can see this is much more CO2 than what you have mentioned that you use. Fish gasping is a sign of low O2 and not necessarily high CO2. How much CO2 are you adding now?

For me HC is a nuisance plant that I've ripped out of my tank now as it grows too damned fast. Even now the few small bits that floated off and collected in corners and under other plants are sprouting like mad.

James


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## Themuleous (21 Jul 2009)

Well I've been dosing with excel and pushed the CO2 to the max killing one of my cherry barbs in the process (and almost a second but I noticed in time) and no change in the HC or blyxa.  I've added a few crypts just as a control plant, as they should grow in pretty much anything.

I don't know if it will sort it but I've invested in the stuff needed to use JamesC's RO remineralisation recipe and will be using 100% RO from now on, just so I can be totally sure its not something in the water.

If that doesn't work, then I'm all outta ideas 

Sam


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## JamesM (21 Jul 2009)

Patience Sam 

My hc takes a good few weeks to reall get going, even with high co2 and liquid carbon. 

What lighting levels do you have mate?


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## Amoeba (3 Aug 2009)

Hi Sam,
  my blyxa grows like crazy, but HC and other small plants not so much.
  I thought it may have something to do with Akadama, but looks like it doesn't.
  What are your approx water params?

  EDIT: My HC is pearling nicely for a week or so after introducing into the tank, but then the leafs become dwarf and it starts detaching from the substrate.


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## Themuleous (3 Aug 2009)

Hi there 

Not got a clue what the water params are but I've just switched to 100% RO with JamesC DIY remineralisation.  The tank is getting 1ppm PO4 and 5ppm NO3.  TNP for trace.  Pretty standard EI with CO2. Lighting is 2x54w T5's, cheapo lampspec ones, from JamesC thread.

I never get pearling, from any of the plants.

Sam


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## JamesM (3 Aug 2009)

I still think you need more light mate


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## Themuleous (3 Aug 2009)

Cheers for the thoughts James.  I'm gonna run the 100% RO for a month or two just to rule out it being something in the water, which I know is doubtful but I have to try each thing one at a time.  The lighting is next on my list  the luminaire has 3x54w so I can easily add more.

Interestingly all the plant problems I've had have been with T5 lighting, I didn't seems to have any of these problems when I was using T8.

Sam


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