# Water changes



## pauldesfitz (22 Sep 2013)

Ok ...I realize that this is a REALLY Basic question for all experts on this Forum, but as I`m about to start on my first Planted Tank project, I was wondering what methods everyone uses to do their Water Changes...
As I realize the importance of Large Scale Water Changes each week, I wondered about whether everyone uses Additives to remove Chlorine ??  Also, Water Temperatures from Tap etc..
I seem to know more about EI dosing, Co2 DIY set ups, IN-Line Diffusers , Substrate Requirements, etc...than the most simple things.
I`m sorry if this sounds a bit basic, but I would appreciate Basic Help before I move forward.
Thanks in advance..


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2013)

I find it's better to keep it all stupidly simple...life's complicated enough...water straight from the tap is fine, unless you're trying to breed species with exacting requirements. I don't use dechlorinator - generally speaking levels in UK tap water are way too low to affect aquatic critters. And water temperature out the tap should be the same as that in the tank, just use a thermometer - with a little experience it's possible to gauge it fairly accurately by hand. Neither is it necessary to do water changes at night to confuse algae Nor is necessary to leave tap water to stand in buckets for indefinite periods to degas prior to refilling your tank...


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## pauldesfitz (22 Sep 2013)

Thanks Troi.....
I`ve been stressing about Chlorine, Temperatures, etc... 
You`ve put my mind at rest.
Didnt know whether to leave water for 24 hours to take Chlorine out ... maybe I`m just complicating things.


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## callmephathead (22 Sep 2013)

Troi said:


> I find it's better to keep it all stupidly simple...life's complicated enough...water straight from the tap is fine, unless you're trying to breed species with exacting requirements. I don't use dechlorinator - generally speaking levels in UK tap water are way too low to affect aquatic critters. And water temperature out the tap should be the same as that in the tank, just use a thermometer - with a little experience it's possible to gauge it fairly accurately by hand. Neither is it necessary to do water changes at night or leave it to stand in order to degas ...


 
I was always told a very different story and just smelling the water from my taps makes me believe that chlorine levels would be too high for my fishes and shrimp...But more importantly your tap water is likely to contains some heavy metals, some of those can be very harmful to shrimps and snails for example and must be bonded before the water is used.
I personally have 2 x 80 litres plastic containers in my garage, both with a heater. I fill up and treat the water the day before water change from the COLD tap water and warm the water up with the heaters...next day the water is ready and at the right temperature...


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## pauldesfitz (22 Sep 2013)

interesting alternative......similar to the way I did in my Malawi Cichlid Tank.... Though this  was a failed project.  This Time I want to try to get things right from start, if I can.


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## oldbloke (23 Sep 2013)

I would say that seeing as chlorine values can vary, it would be safer to use a treatment product.


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## foxfish (23 Sep 2013)

I think you will find a divide here, some folk like Troi & myself just use water straight from the tap while others talk of all sorts or igneous methods to warm the water & rid it of their suspected impurities!
I would say a lot depends on the individual tank & its inhabitants, you certainly don't need to worry about the plants in this resect but, if you have £50 shrimps, then yes you will need to treat water changes in a different way than if you have a 400l tank plant only set up!!
For up to & around 100l, water changes are pretty basic, above that they could become pretty tedious so I feel a lot depends on the individual circumstances?
I have cherry shrimp & about 50 corydoras, some are pretty old & all breed thought out the year...I use water straight from the tap & have done for many years.


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## squid102 (23 Sep 2013)

Troi said:


> I find it's better to keep it all stupidly simple...life's complicated enough...water straight from the tap is fine, unless you're trying to breed species with exacting requirements. I don't use dechlorinator - generally speaking levels in UK tap water are way too low to affect aquatic critters.



I don't agree. I would always use a dechlorinator. Not just get rid rid of chlorine but also to remove chloramine which is increasingly being used by water companies. We have old pipes around here and the water company frequently make repairs. When they do the water goes brown and smells very very strongly of chlorine. I wont even drink it when they do that. Whilst you may get away without using a dechlorinator, your water company will never tell you when they make changes and only notice you will have is dead fish. Better to be safe than sorry. However, I wouldn't stress about small amounts. I frequently rinse equipment in tap water, give it a shake and put it back in the tank.


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## Jack12 (23 Sep 2013)

To save money use Seachem Prime for its higher concentration then other water treatment products
I switched to RO filter and completely stopped using any dechlorinators. I read dechlorinators may negatively affect Seachem Purigen - if you are using one to make your water crystal clear. My Nitrates levels from the tap are very high in London, now RO solved the problem


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## dw1305 (23 Sep 2013)

Hi all,
I should say before I start on this that I've kept fish in rain-water since the 1970's, when our tap water really was fairly nasty, and I don't see any problem at all with using a water conditioner, or HM filter, if you use tap water. 





callmephathead said:


> But more importantly your tap water is likely to contains some heavy metals


 I don't think it is these days, because the EU limits on HM's are so tight all tap water is treated with NaOH (to raise the pH above pH7) and PO4--- (for PIMS, Phosphate Induced Metal Stabilisation). EU drinking water standards are here: < EU's drinking water standards>. 





squid102 said:


> We have old pipes around here and the water company frequently make repairs. When they do the water goes brown and smells very very strongly of chlorine.


 I think this is much more of a problem than HM's, particularly for people who don't keep planted tanks. I'd advise any-one who sees any kind of water mains work in their area that emergency chloramine dosing is likely to occur. Have a look a these threads: <HMA filter | UK Aquatic Plant Society>, <Do I need to do water changes during cycling? | UK Aquatic Plant Society> & <Water mains flushing | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison (23 Sep 2013)

Holy-moly guys where do you live...I wouldn't want refill my aquarium with water straight out of the tap if it was that bad...high chlorine concentrations, high levels of heavy metals...in fact I'm not sure I'd want to brush my teeth with it let alone drink it.

Do you think it'd be a good idea if you posted an image of the water quality reports you're all obviously referring to so that other members in your particular catchments can compare them with environmental tolerances for their aquatic critters, or much more to the point with WHO Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality, and perhaps even more poignantly - as Darrel mentioned - even stricter EU limits?


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## oldbloke (23 Sep 2013)

Tetra Pond Aquasafe Water Conditioner, 1 Litre: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies


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## ian_m (23 Sep 2013)

As far as I know in the UK drinking water heavy metal contamination is not a problem. Any present is below EU limits and unlikely to be of any consequences for an aquarium.

However chlorine and chloramine are present in UK water in varying amounts. The type and amount will vary from region to region and time to time.

Chloramine is regularly injected into water pipes after any maintenance work. On another forum, a member had all his fish wiped out (£620 worth) due to chloramine being injected into the pipe after a burst pipe repair. He was completely unaware of this (obviously) and just changed water per normal assuming he was getting the standard low dose of chlorine he was used to. He stored and warmed his water before use, but this does not remove chloramine.A quid or two a month for dechlorinator would have stopped this.

So dont dechlorinate at your peril.


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## roadmaster (23 Sep 2013)

Twice a year here in my city U.S. ,they flush the lines with extra chlorine,chloramine so I use dechlorinator.
As it happen's,,this is now taking place here, and you can smell the chlorine as the tapwater is run much more so than at other times of the year.
Some older homes here still have lead pipes so a conditioner such as PRIME which detoxifies metal's, is small price to pay for peace of mind,comfort.
I have topped off tank's with plain tapwater after leaving water to sit overnight to dissipate chlorine,but for large water changes of 50% or more ,I would alway's use a dechlorinator.


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## dw1305 (23 Sep 2013)

Hi all,





ian_m said:


> Chloramine is regularly injected into water pipes after any maintenance work. On another forum, a member had all his fish wiped out (£620 worth) due to chloramine being injected into the pipe after a burst pipe repair. He was completely unaware of this (obviously) and just changed water per normal assuming he was getting the standard low dose of chlorine he was used to. He stored and warmed his water before use, but this does not remove chloramine.A quid or two a month for dechlorinator would have stopped this.


 I think this is a good point, and I know of several similar cases after the freeze of 2010/2011.

I think one point worth making is that these fish deaths aren't actually usually caused by either the chlorine or the ammonia (from the break-down of chloramine), but from the low dissolved oxygen levels which result from the oxidation of the extra ammonia. In the cases I know of they were experienced fish keepers, who kept "L numbers" in heavily filtered, but non-planted tanks. Often only the more rheophilic _Hypancistrus, Pseudolithoxus_ etc succumbed.

If you have plants chloramine is less of a problem, as theplants both mop up the NH3/NH4+ ions before they enter microbial filtration and during the photo-period they saturate the water with dissolved oxygen.

cheers Darrel


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## oldbloke (23 Sep 2013)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I think this is a good point, and I know of several similar cases after the freeze of 2010/2011.
> 
> I think one point worth making is that these fish deaths aren't actually usually caused by either the chlorine or the ammonia (from the break-down of chloramine), but from the low dissolved oxygen levels which result from the oxidation of the extra ammonia. In the cases I know of they were experienced fish keepers, who kept "L numbers" in heavily filtered, but non-planted tanks. Often only the more rheophilic _Hypancistrus, Pseudolithoxus_ etc succumbed.
> 
> ...


 

I was just gonna say that........


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## Tim Harrison (23 Sep 2013)

So in summary, and in response to the OP, I think its pretty safe to say that most consider it OK to use water straight out of the tap. But if you're worried about chlorine/chloramine then by all means use a water conditioner/dechlorinator. However, if you use purigen make sure the dechlorinator used is one without slime coat.


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## pauldesfitz (23 Sep 2013)

Well, it was only a Basic Question !!
But maybe I opened a can of Worms !
Thanks for the information,  As I will not be adding fish for some time, I can relax for a while.
Tank is Approx. 200ltr ... Live in Liverpool area, where the roads are always being dug up !! I drive a Bus all day on them !! believe me !

Thanks for help.


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## sparkyweasel (23 Sep 2013)

Troi said:


> So in summary, and in response to the OP, I think its pretty safe to say that *most* consider it OK to use water straight out of the tap. But if you're worried about chlorine/chloramine then by all means use a water conditioner/dechlorinator. However, if you use purigen make sure the dechlorinator used is one without slime coat.


 
Most? Not the way I counted.


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## sparkyweasel (24 Sep 2013)

dw1305 said:


> I don't think it is these days, because the EU limits on HM's are so tight all tap water is treated with NaOH (to raise the pH above pH7) and PO4--- (for PIMS, Phosphate Induced Metal Stabilisation). EU drinking water standards are here: < EU's drinking water standards>.


 
That EU standard allows a maximum of 2mg/l of copper. That would be toxic to many crustaceans.


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## sciencefiction (24 Sep 2013)

There's no rule whether to use dechlorinator or not. It all depends on your personal water treatment and how well you can rely on them. In my area I can certainly skip the dechlorinator part altogether without any issues due to very low levels of chlorine and no ammonia/nitrites or nitrates or for the most part no heavy metals(there is still very tiny amounts of copper although I don't think such levels affect my shrimp at all) but I prefer not to skip dechlor to be on the safe side in case the water gets contaminated without me reading the news on time or them bothering to inform the public at all.  At times the water stinks of chlorine and even ammonia I can't even drink a glass and although it's rare, I think they certainly change the levels from time to time despite what they announce.
But besides that, I pour the water straight into the tank and then dechlorinate and have done that on shrimp tanks as well without any deaths. I sometimes forgot to dechlorinate without issues either.


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## dw1305 (24 Sep 2013)

Hi all,


sparkyweasel said:


> That EU standard allows a maximum of 2mg/l of copper. That would be toxic to many crustaceans.


 Yes this is true, the reason is that copper isn't very toxic (it is a essential micro-nutrient to both plants and animals), so the limits are set quite high. In reality the treatment with phosphorus and NaOH has the effect of immobilizing zinc (Zn), copper (Cu), Tin (Sn), cadmium (Cd) etc. as well as lead (Pb).

From December 2013 the new limit for lead levels in drinking water in 10ppb (1x10-8g /l ). the outcome of this is that the water companies will be dosing higher levels of both phosphates (usually ~ 1 ppm PO4--- added) and NaOH.

Details are here<
	Policy - Lead in Drinking Water > & <http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/research/completed-research/reports/DWI70_2_260exsum.pdf>.

cheers Darrel


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## Gary Nelson (24 Sep 2013)

I always put my water out the night before water change and preheat to 22 degrees with a couple of squirts of Prime just to be on the safe side - after all Prime lasts ages and its just not worth the risk without it.


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