# Just Fun ...



## clonitza (15 Dec 2011)

Hello boys and girls,

Finally the new soil arrived so I can start the journal.
I did a fast sketch so you can see where this one is going to. 




Looks like a mountain scape but I plan it to be a little different, you'll see tomorrow when I'll post the first photos how it will look like.

A little bit of the technical side like always:

*The tank* - 70cm long x 35cm wide x 30cm tall - optiwhite glass

*Soil & hardscape*
- Aqua Medic Volcanit *[New]*
- Dennerle Borneo brown
- JBL AquaBasis Plus
- Dragon Stone (yellow and brown)
- Collected wood.

*Fertilizers: * TNP+, Dennerle A1 Daily, ADA ECA, ADA Green Gain etc.
*Filtration: * Eheim Ecco Pro 300 + gUSH glassware
*Light: * 2 x T5 24w Osram 965
*CO2: *2Kg + Dennerle Profi 2000? + Sera solenoid valve + JBL glass diffuser or UP Atomizer + Glass CO2 tester

*Inhabitants: *
- Apistogramma cacatuoides 
- Hemigrammus rodwayi
- Hemigrammus erythrozonus
- Otocinclus vestitus

*Plants*
- Hemianthus Callitrichoides
- Glossostigma elatinoides
- Hygropila polysperma Rosanervig *[New]*
- Ceratopteris thalictroides *[New]*
- Ranunculus papulentus
- Anchor moss
- Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides & tripartita

Take care,
Mike


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## spyder (15 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

Subscribed.


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## foxfish (15 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

And me


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## flygja (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

Can
not
wait
 8)


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## clonitza (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

 

Damn my fish are hard to catch, need to lower the water more.
This is going to be a loooong day.


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## clonitza (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

Aquabasis and the first layer of Dennerle sand added, now I need to add a layer of Volcanit and place the first stones.


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## clonitza (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave*

Hope I'm not broadcasting in the desert 





After placing the stones for the first time I wasn't really happy with the cave being so low so I had to add others to hold it.





Another layer of gravel and upped the cave a bit and it looks OK for the little stones I had.





Could have tried rising them again but I feel that after the plants develop this one is going too look just perfect.
Gonna tweak the right stones a bit during the next step: planting.


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## mitchelllawson (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Looks good so far.


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## AndersH (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

This could be really good. The left side of the cave could use some help. Maybe with masking the connections somehow and the left bottom stones end is very dark.


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## clonitza (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Cheers, plants should help make it look natural. 
The lamp is placed in the back so it's kinda shady now, you'll see more photos tomorrow with it placed in the middle-front.
The last photo for today, I kinda miscalculated the water needed to fill the tank and I have to wait until morning for more RO water. 





Mike


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## justjason88 (16 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

looking good and very promising


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## clonitza (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Did a little bit of arrangement on the right side and planted the tank. 
Not really good looking atm but soon as the plants will start growing and cover the hardscape it's going to be something different.





Cheers,
Mike


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## Gill (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Really Liking the way you built up the cave.


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## sanj (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

I am not sure how to describe your style, but it always seems very delicate style planting. The cave creates and element of interest and I like the way you have done it, initially I was not sure how it would look.

I take it the cave idea is not intended to have a practical purpose interms of the fauna requirement?


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## clonitza (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Thanks guys for your kind comments!  

Sanj my apisto family is constantly growing and the cave was build also for them. I really like the fact that they are already exploring it.  I'm thinking now to build a second small one on the right, next week, at the end of the path for a second breeding pair and also to balance the design a bit.

I also enjoy the texture of the gravel, really amazing colors:




Cheers,
Mike


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## Gary Nelson (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Very nice, those fish will love the cave


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## mitchelllawson (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

What are the plants poking out of the substrate at the front?


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## clonitza (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Left to right: Hydrocotyle tripartita, Glossostigma elatinoides and Hemianthus micranthemoides


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## mitchelllawson (17 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Thanks, hopfully every thing will grow well for you.


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## doobiw55 (18 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

i cant wait to see this grown in and i love the cave   

tom


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## clonitza (20 Dec 2011)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

Thanks guys, hopefully there won't be any big issues during the first weeks.
Things slowly kicking in here and there, started adding high amounts of CO2 to keep the emersed leaves surviving until the plants grow enough to be cut and replanted.






Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (6 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*

This graph kinda blew my mind:




http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/light ... pc-25.html

I know that a water filled tank/tinted water etc. alters the results but ignoring that 2 t5 HO on top of my 30cm tank is still huge amounts of light so I bent one of the reflectors to cover one of the bulbs and I'm running just one from now on. I cross my fingers in hope I'll get rid of surface scum, 36h after the change and turning the skimmer off it hasn't appeared.

Not to much to see right now so I won't post any photos this week, maybe next one, until then just wanna tell you that I've finally ordered an external heater from Germany and hopefully the atomizer will arrive in the same time so I'll be able to enjoy an ugly hardware free scape. 

Regarding the light I'm using 1 x JBL Solar Tropic (4000K), until the Giesmann Powerchrome Midday (6000K) arrives, with a lighting period of 2h-3h-2h-3h-2h (same as the other tank, 3h is the break), CO2 coming 1hour before the lights and turns off 30min before the break, about 2-3bps.

Se ya soon,
Mike


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## George Farmer (6 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [First photos]*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> .... with a lighting period of 2h-3h-2h-3h-2h (same as the other tank, 3h is the break),


Hi Mike,

Can you explain your photoperiod, please?

Cheers,
George


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## mitchelllawson (6 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Quick Update]*

Any updates on this?


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## clonitza (6 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Quick Update]*

@mitchelllawson As soon as my stems in the back of the cave grow again, I believe at the end of the next week, I'll do then a bit of a larger review of the things happened in the first weeks of this setup's life 

@George Though one mate 

Let's see ... I'm not a scientist nor one that's heavy testing water parameters so everything came out of my observations during the past year, so ...

Primary reason: *fish*, even if my tanks tend to be heavily planted they seem to not like the high lighting I use so I use large breaks into the photo-period for their sake. They seem to like it so I'm stuck on it.

Secondary reason: *plants* ... of course ... Why's that?

Well, at first I wasn't using any CO2 addition so I thought large breaks provide the tank a little bit of CO2 buildup and lower the organic matter the plants produce during the extended photo-periods, more or less it worked, I sorted the BBA issues I had but the growth wasn't really the one I was looking for so I started adding bits of liquid carbon and the things  were back on track. This is the short story of "The Little one".

Back to this tank, same story but with a twist, I'm using high amounts of CO2, low KH and the PH used to drop rather low, when using Amazonia it was lower than 5 once so the bacterial activity during the photo-period is rather low if any, as soon as the CO2 is stopped the PH slowly rises again and bacteria is back on business but the organic matter is too high to be handle in the little time it had until the CO2 pops back in this resulted in BBA, surface scum and all  sorts of algae ... so breaking the photo-period and CO2 addition extends the bacteria working schedule, lowering the light, lowers also their burden, in theory though, so I'll keep you updated how it works. 

Hope I was clear enough mate and glad you are following my little journal.

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Quick Update]*

I know text updates are not appealing, nobody reads these days 
I haven't planned for a photo but here it is, stems not grown in the back but when they will I'll do another one, next time using the strobe to light the back to gain a smooth gradient.


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## George Farmer (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Thanks for the photoperiod explanation, Mike.

The 'scape is coming along nicely.

I've said it before but I really like your style. So much so that you've inspired me to follow along similar suit in my latest 'scape. By that I mean a more complex mix of textures by using lots of species mixed up. It's different to my usual style but I like it.  I will share some images soon for you to comment!


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## clonitza (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Yes, coming along nicely but still far far away . Really appreciate your comment, thank you mate, glad you are giving colored plants a change, there are so many good looking plants people almost forgot about them, like rotala, ludwiga, nessea, ammania, etc. ... really amazing plants, some hard to keep also. 

What happened to your camera btw? I see that you are only taking photos with your iPhone.

Count on my amateur eye for a comment.   

Cheers,


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## George Farmer (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> What happened to your camera btw? I see that you are only taking photos with your iPhone.


iPhone for Facebook and Twitter, generally. It's 100x quicker that using the DSLR, then uploading them etc. iPhone is snap and share instantly.  

Unfortunately I don't have the spare time I used to have and my priorities have changed a little - mainly wanting to spend more time with my wife and kids. So my 'proper' photography is more limited to commissioned work that's not published on forums, social networking sites etc.

Besides, with the standard of many of UKAPS members aquascaping and photography these days, I doubt anyone is missing my work, which is a good thing! I'd rather write the odd post here and there, and keep an eye on things in the background.


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## George Farmer (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Just for you, Mike. It seemed pointless creating a new thread for one photo. I hope you don't mind me hijacking your journal but it's kind of relevant because your style has inspired this.

 It's only been running for 4 weeks. Some plants only 2 weeks old. 

You can see the change in direction for me. Lots more textures intermingled.


neons by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## BigTom (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

I also really enjoy your tanks clonitza, they manage to feel really clean whilst also giving the eye lots to roam over.


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## clonitza (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

There's no hijacking mate, it's a great inspiration for me too. I was talking with a friend a while back and we agreed that the next big thing in aquascaping is mixing plants like in nature, for far too many years people are using the front house lawn in their aquascapes. 
Great mix of plants there, don't forget to keep staurogyne in check as it develops long roots at every node more or less like blyxa but they are harder to pull.

I know the time issue, such a pity the day is not 36 hours long ... 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Thanks Tom, it's really hard to keep plants from growing one on top of the other, I think I'm transforming in the scissorman. 

Last one for today:

Really hard to take a good photo with the black background so some editing was required to get rid of the shadows. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## mitchelllawson (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Looks great wish my plants would start to grow haha.


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## fish bait (8 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [New photo]*

Hi, tanks looking great, the cave is lovely and I will be watching this one closely, I my even try it myself . Well keep up the good work and keep the pictures coming.


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## clonitza (20 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Text update]*

Yet another text update but I think it's important to add this kind of posts also for anyone interested.

The last two weeks I think I kinda messed this tank, I was aiming to keep only the flow provided by Ecco Pro 300 with lily pipes which didn't work so well, not being a large tank but a long one comparing to the width and height, the flow only reached only a small portion of the back of the tank living the left side and front uncovered, that means half of the tank with poor flow and CO2 distribution, and guess what? BBA and diatoms blooms all over the tank, mainly on rocks, which are so hard to clean especially the ones I can't pull out 

As a side note, due to the poor flow most of the plants turned red, stopped growing and I was wondering well do I have enough nitrates? So I constantly was adding TPN+ to the tank until I decided well how about adding the re-circulation pump inside again to see what happens. It did happen that plants turned green after 24 hours and started growing again.

But it wasn't the only change I had to do, I've also switched back to the 8h lighting period 1x24w t5, CO2 2.5h hours before the light resulting in a nice lime green to yellow drop checker.

The moral of this story is get your water distribution and CO2 sorted if things go horribly, I'm saying this like I didn't know it already. 

Now I have to wait another week or so, spot dosing the remaining BBA.

I'm the proud owner of a Hydor external heater, kinda hard to place it inside the cabinet but the switch I think was really worth the extra bucks invested, instant heating!.  I also started using Giesemann Midday 6000K, kinda reminds me of Osram 965 6500K but the brightness is much better and I also think it has much less yellow in the spectrum and a little more blue than the other, this means a nice white background and really good plant color rendering, so, I guess that looking just at color temperature when choosing the light is a little bit wrong.

Spectrum comparison:




Osram 965




Giesemann Midday

See ya next week folks,
Mike


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## George Farmer (20 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Text update]*

Nice update mate. Some important lessons shared there for sure.

The new tubes sound great. Interesting to see that perhaps some aquarium-branded fluorescents are actually worth paying a lot more for.


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## hinch (20 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Text update]*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if I have to use flo tubes I'm pretty hooked on the aqua-glo ones tbh pinkish light given off but really makes fish colour stand out and plant greens bright.  having said that once I finalise my designs I'll be converting to some home brew LED strips soon more bang per watt which I like.

the tank its self above though looks superb kinda wishing I went for rocks in my tank now instead of wood


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## clonitza (20 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Text update]*

Thanks guys! 

Well, when it comes to light I'm kinda picky, for me the price doesn't really matter as I'm not investing in many bulbs.
One is more than enough for this scape at least in this early stage, might get the transition into 2 later on after it hits maturity but this is going to take at least 4 months.

I had the oportunity to test many, I still kinda like the cheap Osram 865 for green scapes so I go for them whenever I can. For this scape as it has browns, oranges, reds etc. I needed one with a peak in the warm side of spectrum but not too warm to make the background yellowish so I guess Giesemann Midday was a good choice, 16£ for two years, not that expensive really and the brightness pays off, much better than any I have right now to compare to: Osram 865,880,965, JBL Natur 9000k & Tropic 4500k.

Never had the opportunity to pick Life Glo until now but I did used some Hagen T8s years ago and they are really nice might test it in the future when I'll have some nice colored fish. 

Cheers,


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## clonitza (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Text update]*

A quick night shot ...


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## clonitza (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Night shot]*

After ordering twice 16mm hose atomizers instead of 12mm and waiting each time 1 month to arrive,  I decided that there must be a higher being not letting me use this type of diffuser so I've ordered another toy:






Pollen Glass TYPE-3

Can hardly wait to put it in use and compare with my current JBL diffuser.

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (3 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Night shot]*


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## clonitza (4 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave [Night shot]*

Things slowly happening in this tank, nevertheless I'm not rushing anywhere.



I'm totally happy with the new diffuser, it turns my drop checker faster than the old one, not sure the $$$ I've spent on it is really worth it but that doesn't matter so much.

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

And it's GONE! 



Good nobody posted, feels nice having all the pictures on the same page. 
There's a funny thing in this photo if you look at the last, wondering who spots it first.


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## sussex_cichlids (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Wow
Massive change still looks very nice i prefer the new one far more natural going to be stunning once its grown out 

Fantastic job clonitza 

Masterpiece in the making


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## Ady34 (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Hi Clonitza,
The cave was different but i prefer the wood.
Looks really natural now. You have a very unique style of scaping.
Nice otto? siamensis? in the rear left corner. Sat feb 4th and Fri feb 17th must be algae eaters sit in the same place day!!!   
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## darren636 (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

crazy face


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## clonitza (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Ady you got it, not sure about him (otto) being an algae eater, he's chilling out every day for the past 2 years, same with his pal, not sure where he is right now.  Thanks guys, yet speaking about it maturing, never got lucky, maybe this time. 
Some new plants to arrive next week, hopefully not frozen like last batch.
The Canon 60mm macro is a crazy lens, my fav baby right now, good for full shots too.

Cheers,
Mike


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## toaster (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

The old layout, was nice but the new layout does it for me, your choice of wood is great and I like your plant selection.  Be interesting to see how you trim it, I like it how it is


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## Ian Holdich (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

great quality pics again Mike.

where did you get those see through brackets for you light?


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## clonitza (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Thanks Ian. They came with the lamp , it's a Resun DL-15 modified for t5s.


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## logi-cat (17 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

i think it looks better without the cave, good job!


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## clonitza (18 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Thank you!

One of my gold tetras, nice to have auto focus .. these little fellas are hard to catch.


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## darren636 (18 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

my kind of fish!


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## sussex_cichlids (18 Feb 2012)

*Re: Slow Cave ... NO Cave!?*

Clonitza 

Just wondering it this getting a new name now it lost the cave or are you keeping the title slow cave no cave


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## clonitza (20 Feb 2012)

I'm not sure mate what will be the final title of the scape, for now ... "Just Fun" I think it's OK. 

Some minor diatoms issues that'll go away soon 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (24 Feb 2012)




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## clonitza (25 Feb 2012)

Some plant layers representing different stages of the aquarium.


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## clonitza (25 Feb 2012)

And the last one for today ...


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## clonitza (26 Feb 2012)

Trimming session done so here's the full tank photo:

One more month I think until the first real photo session, hope my new camera arrives in time.


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## clonitza (1 Mar 2012)

The new skimmer:


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## Christie_ZXR (1 Mar 2012)

Hope you don't mind me asking a silly question, but what's one of those for?


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## clonitza (1 Mar 2012)

For removing surface scum (it sucks the water from both surface and bottom of the tank), don't really like the looks when the scum traps the CO2 bubbles, I'll remove it when it stops developing.


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## Christie_ZXR (1 Mar 2012)

Ah, thanks. Thought it might be something like that, but I've only heard of skimmers used for marine tanks.


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## ian_m (1 Mar 2012)

clonitza said:
			
		

> The new skimmer:


I assume it does the job, removes surface film ?

Does is support connection to 16/22mm hoses ?

I was looking at the JBL one http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/5028/jbl-topclean-ii, but your one looks a lot smaller.


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## clonitza (1 Mar 2012)

Yes it does the job and it's half the size of JBL Topclean. 
I'm using the intake from the e900/e700 to fit it on, had to cut it before because was a bit too long. If you want to fit it on the e1500 intake you need to cut a 16/12mm pipe and fit it inside the 22/16 one and it works.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250809513948

Mike


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## clonitza (1 Mar 2012)

My ugly punk snail


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## toadass (1 Mar 2012)

Ha,ha, vivian from the young ones....... In snail format, quality


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## Radik (1 Mar 2012)

Epic snail.


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## Gary Nelson (1 Mar 2012)

clonitza said:
			
		

> The new skimmer:



This is what I fitted to my setup a few months back as I too was getting very tired of the ugly film building up on the surface.  I actually took all mine apart, got my dremel out and modified it using some of my grey Ehiem parts.  The reason I did this was because the V2 skimmer states a 600l maximum limit and I'm running a G6.

I cut off the standard bottom intake and refitted the grey Ehiem one thinking that this would improve a higher amount of water to be drawn in and it worked a treat   I've got mine set so only about 5% of the water is sucked in through the top and the water surface is as clear as it can be! A massive difference and well woth the £17 for the kit and  a bit of work


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## Antipofish (1 Mar 2012)

Mike I cannot believe I missed this thread.  I have just read it from start to finish and thoroughly enjoyed doing so.  Like the others, I love the new look with the wood.  Though I did like the cave too   Did you end up putting Apisto's in here in the end ?


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## clonitza (2 Mar 2012)

Thanks guys! 

Gary you are right, if you've got surface scum why not use a surface extractor, they aren't expensive and they work great  especially if you find a way to tweak them to your needs. I had also the other chinese version (the black one) but it was a little bit too bulky. Hopefully soon I'll replace with the glass intake.

Antipofish they are there alright though lately I haven't taken photos with them but if you look carefully there's one in my last full tank photo. I have now a mature male and 3 juvenile pairs and maybe some babies, not sure. 

Cheers,
Mike


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## clonitza (2 Mar 2012)

ISO 1600 test with my new 600D


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## clonitza (3 Mar 2012)

Good mornin'!


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## Antipofish (3 Mar 2012)

clonitza said:
			
		

> Good mornin'!



Good morning indeed.  What a great way to start the say, seeing an image like this   Nice one.


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