# Help... fishless cycle!



## AlexH (17 Oct 2016)

Hi guys!

So ive been reading stuff on fishless cycling and there are familiar trends... but i just want to run you guys through things so i can make sure im doing things correctly!!

So... 180L tank. Fluval 406 with trays rammed with Biohome (2.5kg)

Ive got the temperature set at 28°C.

Ada amazonia is the substrate which is leeching ammonia enormously. My ammonia and nitrate readings are through the roof. Im going to do a water change this thursday (90%) as the tank will have been running for a week.

I was just going to leave things for 4 weeks. I was going to plant in about 3 weeks after ive got my CO2 system setup. 

Erm... am i doing things correctly??

Thank you!!
Alex


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## rebel (18 Oct 2016)

Alex you are doing fine! If possible plant as early/very dense as you can. 

If no plants, until then, black out the tank completely (cover with garbage bags so no light gets in). This will prevent algae.


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## AlexH (18 Oct 2016)

Whoops ive been turning on the light lol!!

Okey ill bag it up after a major water change on Thursday


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (18 Oct 2016)

Better still, leave the light on and get your plants planted!


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## dw1305 (18 Oct 2016)

Hi all, 





AlexH said:


> Fluval 406 with trays rammed with Biohome (2.5kg)


I'd probably remove some of the "Biohome".

There is nothing wrong with "Biohome", but it isn't really the amount (or type) of media that makes a difference, it is the amount of oxygen.

If you have a lot of ammonia you need a lot of oxygen and a relatively small volume of media will actually provide adequate sites for microbial colonisation.

You need the water to remain oxygenated with the filter for all the filter media to remain active.

One of the selling points of <"Biohome"> is its micro-porous structure, that allows simultaneous aerobic nitrification (at the surface) and anaerobic denitrification within the pores once a thick biofilm has developed. Denitrification is largely irrelevant to us (because we have plants to take up the nitrate), and there are real dangers that if your filter is to tightly packed that aerobic nitrification will be compromised. 





Dr Mike Oxgreen said:


> Better still, leave the light on and get your plants planted!


I agree with Mike and Rebel, plants are a good thing. 

If you don't want to plant the tank you can use a floating plant. These won't get algae on the leaves and they have access to 400ppm aerial CO2.

I like Amazon Frogbit _("Limnobium laevigatum_") (because you can use it  for the <"Duckweed Index">), but _<"Hygroryza aristata">_, _<"Lemna">, <"Pisti_a"> or _<"Salvinia"> _would also work.

cheers Darrel


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## Manisha (18 Oct 2016)

Hi, I actually started my first two tanks like yours - I think I picked up the idea from the Green Machine  (but not 100% sure) With the filter running, no lights & the temperature up high (to try to speed up the ammonia leeching). Although since this, think it's best to plant from the start as others have mentioned.

I'm in the process of setting up a 3rd nano with Amazonia & although think planting from the start is best, I was also worried I wouldn't be able to do daily water changes to keep ammonia at safe levels (I didn't want to add & potentially melt slower growing plants like buce & take along time to regrow.) I settled on a middle ground of starting with some cuttings from my other tanks, a cheap pot o& a floating plant & will add other plants after about 6 weeks ☺ 

I used to have a 305 - it's a really great filter!


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## AlexH (18 Oct 2016)

I'm going to be making my first major water change on Thursday. I'm not in a position to properly plant yet due to no CO2 system - but I may add some frogbit as recommended.

Following my water change, I'm going to remove some of the Biohome from the media trays - I suspect the fact I've rammed the trays means the flow is significantly reduced. 

The water is clearing nicely which is great. 

I will do some tests prior to the water change to get an idea of where I'm at. Green Machine do give the opinion that the tank should be cycled before planting... So I was following their advice - 4 big water changes, once a week, then planting.


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## rebel (19 Oct 2016)

For some finicky species, it's probably best to cycle it then plant it. For easy plants though, they can handle it. The risk of algal bloom is less once the tank is cycled and stable. Depends on your patience.


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## alto (19 Oct 2016)

AlexH said:


> *Green Machine do give the opinion* that the tank should be cycled before planting... So I was following their advice - 4 big water changes, once a week, then planting.


So I've read/heard but never the actual reasoning behind this ... it's so far off ADA "_protocols_"


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## AlexH (19 Oct 2016)

alto said:


> So I've read/heard but never the actual reasoning behind this ... it's so far off ADA "_protocols_"



Lol!

I think its a development in their thinking as ive seen James Findley planting straight into AS.

I guess the *concern *is that too much ammonia may damage the plants? So best to let its leeching settle to enable you to have more control on the water chemistry?

Who knows! It suited me though as i dont have a CO2 system yet lol!


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## alto (19 Oct 2016)

Who knows 

but I've not seen much report of grunge growing on ADA substrate under usual ADA _change the water, change the water, no really just change the water_ protocols, but have noticed a few reports of it when following TGM's version of _don't change the water_ method

Additionally high ammonia & nitrite & nitrate levels can all impact bacteria of interest growth (inhibition) so I'm unconvinced of the methodology except as a "minimal maintenance" start up - which is fine


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