# LED, T5 or Halide???



## danmullan (3 Mar 2012)

Hi guys,

Still in the planning stages of my new set-up (tank still not bought yet) and I am having real difficulties in choosing a lighting set-up.   

I'm massively keen on the TMC GroBeam's, I love the way they look and the flexibilty of being able to adjust the power output. I would go and buy some today if they weren't so expensive. 

The tank that I'm 99% sure I'm going to get is an opti-white 30' x 18' x 18' (76cm x 45 x 45) and I would like to aim for Medium light, to grow low carpet plants and slightly more demanding stems. So I figured I would need more than just 1 tile, so two tiles and two controllers would be in the region of £440 (or nearer £500ish with the 8 way controller) waaaay too expensive methinks.

Alternatively I could get 2 x GroBeam 500's and only need 1 controller for a total of around £200, so much more reasonable, I could even get another GroBeam to have 3. Would 2 be enough?

And then there's Halide's which I have no experience with, the models I've been looking at have 1 x 70w or 1 x 150w, again I'm not sure which would be more suitable for my proposed tank. The nice brands like Arcadia and Giesemann come in at around £200 - £260.

There's also T5's which I have used before and had success with, nice luminaires like the Arcadia OT2 with 4 x 28w bulbs come in at around £275. The Giesemann's are a bit too pricey.

Any help with the LED's and Halide choices would be great from people with experience as I know less about them than T5's. Ultimatley, I'm trying to identify which is the best value for money, that will provide adequate lighting for a planted tank.

Cheers,
Dan


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## Antipofish (3 Mar 2012)

Just a quick thought.  If you like the tile LEDs have you thought about buying used ones ? Very reasonable prices on Ebay.  I am contemplating different lighting at the moment, and one thing for sure.... I will be looking into it before spending.

ATI Sunpower do some great T5 options, including dimmable ones for about £350 new or half that used.


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## steveninaster (3 Mar 2012)

Have you looked at the APS luminaires
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... bulbs.html

If you can't decide they do all three   
http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... qi-24.html


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## danmullan (4 Mar 2012)

> If you like the tile LEDs have you thought about buying used ones ? Very reasonable prices on Ebay



I have checked before on e-bay, checked again today but no GroBeam's    only the marine spec units for used prices.



> Have you looked at the APS luminaires
> http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... bulbs.html



Funnily enough I had come across these while looking at their open top tank offer, was something redunkulous like a 60lx35wx45hcm tank with stand, t5 lighting unit and filter and heater, for £299!!! It's making it really difficult to spend nearly £500 on a nice opti-white tank and cabinet only   . The luminaries seem like really good value, but they seem too cheap, and don't look quite as nice as some others. Has anyone had one of these? There was a review for the All Pond Solutions 6xT5 + 4xLED luminaire and sounded okay.



> If you can't decide they do all three
> http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... qi-24.html



 I chuckled when I read this bit, again, they look good, but why so cheap. Also I don't really understand the point of the LED's in that unit, surely they would just create 2 hotspots because the light is so directional, I dunno.
The other issue with this unit is it probably has too much light. Spoke to the aquarium manufacturers and may end up getting a 35cm deep tank instead of 45cm, I don't know though, quite liked the idea of a deeper tank.

Cheers for your replies.

Dan


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## Wolfenrook (4 Mar 2012)

I have one of the 2 tube units from AllPondSolutions.  They're cheap because they are cheap, as in the quality isn't as high as more expensive units.  BUT they do the job.  I have one over our White's tree frog viv, and the plastic on them is a bit fragile, a bit broke off on me quite soon after getting it.

It's like anything though, you buy cheap you get cheap.  I'd rather that though than the thing where you pay a fortune only to discover it's no better than the middle of the range stuff.

Ade


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## Radik (4 Mar 2012)

Your tank is deep and longer than 490mm grobeam 500. I suggest 2x grobeam 1000 or just T5 luminaire else you wont have enough light with 3x grobeam 500.


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## Radik (4 Mar 2012)

All pond solution has great T5 luminaire, they are made in Germany both casing and ballast. Quality is really high and I was surprised for this price. You won't regret it. They are only cheap as they have 2 versions... with 1 switch or 2 switches and separate power cables so either you run all 4 tubes or uninstall 2 tubes if you have one switch and one power cable or you buy more expensive version where you can run 2 +2 tubes separately.


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Mar 2012)

APS lights are ok, i run one over my marine nano with SPS which was formally an iwagumi with HC no probs.  The biggest difference between the cheap and the higher price units is the quality of the reflector.  APS have a lot of light spill, get an ATI or Giesemann and the light is very directional.

HQI lights are generally very powerful.  I have just started with a cheaper HQI and am now thinking of switching to an ATI Sunpower.  Im not a big fan of the ripple effect in a planted tank, it looks good on marines not so much on fresh but thats just me.  LED's also create the ripple effect which you should factor into your decision.

I think T5's are hard to beat just because they are so flexible, using different tubes to create different colours, no strobing, no buzzing that can come from cheaper HQI's etc  and now they are dimmable if you have the ££££
Also plenty on the second hand market for good money.


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## danmullan (4 Mar 2012)

Thanks for all your replies,



> Your tank is deep and longer than 490mm grobeam 500. I suggest 2x grobeam 1000 or just T5 luminaire else you wont have enough light with 3x grobeam 500.



I'm split between a 35cm/45cm deep tank at the moment. Problem is the price with the GroBeam tiles, they are just so much more than I want to spend, the options are 2 x tiles with 2 x controllers for around £440 or, 2 x tiles and 1 8 way controller for £500 ish. The 500's are essentially the same price if I wanted to achieve the same levels of lighting which is such a shame. Still haven't managed to find any used ones on e-bay. May speak to a my LFS see if they'll do me a deal.

My heart wants the LED's, my brain says go for a Giesemann but my wallet wants an APS Luminaire   

The arcadia OT2's seem popular, and it's probably one of the only units I've seen working in person, so may end up with one of these.

Back to Halides, would 1 X 70W be enough for my tank or would 150w be better, also how long are the bulbs supposed to last? 

Cheers
Dan


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## danmullan (8 Mar 2012)

I've just seen a ATI Sunpower dimmable online, 4 x 24w, £350ish, very tempted.

Was wondering if you were limited to setting the time and duration of swith on, or is it fully controllable so that you could run the lights at, say 50% all day.


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## Iain Sutherland (8 Mar 2012)

As far as im aware it can be controlled for the entire lighting period.  As to how intuitive the built in controller is, is another thing.
Pretty sure Tom Barr (plantbrain) runs a 54w dimmable on his 'dutch something or other'.  With a little luck tom or another owner will reply, if not try a PM.


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## foxfish (8 Mar 2012)

I have a single 70w MH over my 90 x 60 x 40 deep tank. works well & gives strong growth.
If you are prepared to do a little DIY then you can buy a 70w MH flood light from EBay for about £40.


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## Iain Sutherland (8 Mar 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> I have a single 70w MH over my 90 x 60 x 40 deep tank. works well & gives strong growth.
> If you are prepared to do a little DIY then you can buy a 70w MH flood light from EBay for about £40.



foxfish is right, plants really dont care about the type of light, more how you use it. If your just starting out in the hobby then £400 could be put to better use on improved filtration/flow, substrate, quality plants and hardscape etc...
My 150w MH, 2 x 24w T5 was £50 on aquaristclassifieds and the annoying strobing seems to have stopped??
Unless your minted of course then hell, go to town!


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## Ady34 (8 Mar 2012)

yeah but the ati is sexy lighting!!! Fully controllable and dimmable, i say go for it, id love one!   8)


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## Ed Seeley (10 Mar 2012)

When looking at light costs as well as the running costs you need to take bulb replacements into account too.

I've just bought an LED unit for my reef tank.  It runs at a maximum wattage of 72W (with fan running and all LEDs on full intensity).  At the moment it's running at about 1/3rd intensity and I have never seen the fan coming on at this level (it did when I ran it full power for a brief period so I know it's working!) so I estimate it's using 30W (probably less) for 8-10 hours a day.  The LEDs should run for 10 years at full power before they need replacing.

My other alternative for this 18" cube was 4, 36W PC fluorescents running in a hood with 2 fans running constantly.  Not only would they have been using at least 150W of power each day for 8-10 hours but I would have needed to replace the bulbs each 6-9 months (depending on who you listen to!) at around £10 each for cheap bulbs.

Over 5 years I worked out the following costings;
LED
£500 for light and controller.
0.3p per hour for 8 hours, 365 days a year for 5 years = £50
Total = £550

PC bulbs
Hood = free
Converting it to 4 bulbs and upgrading fans = ~£150
Replacement bulbs = £300
1.5p per hour for 8 hours a day, 365 days a year for 5 years = £219
Total = £669

So the LED unit was cheaper over 5 years and gives me a whole world of functions and is capable of producing way more light than the 4 PC bulbs.  Plus it should last for double this period at least and even then when the LEDs fail this unit has them mounted on pucks which can be replaced / upgraded easily so I won't have to throw the unit away!

Now I just need to find one that gives a whiter colour at much lower intensity for when I want to set up a proper planted tank again...


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## Antipofish (10 Mar 2012)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> When looking at light costs as well as the running costs you need to take bulb replacements into account too.
> 
> I've just bought an LED unit for my reef tank.  It runs at a maximum wattage of 72W (with fan running and all LEDs on full intensity).  At the moment it's running at about 1/3rd intensity and I have never seen the fan coming on at this level (it did when I ran it full power for a brief period so I know it's working!) so I estimate it's using 30W (probably less) for 8-10 hours a day.  The LEDs should run for 10 years at full power before they need replacing.
> 
> ...



Great post Ed. Definitely a worthwhile calculation.  As far as one that gives you the colour you want and whatever intensity you want, check out this one...  Its the D's B's 

http://ecotechmarine.com/products/radion/


Priced at £600+ in the UK currently OR £475 in the states plus the cost of a cheap transformer   Personally I would still buy from a UK based outlet, but it grates the hell out of me that we pay so much more for them in Europe.


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## danmullan (10 Mar 2012)

Firstly thanks for everyone's replies.

And thanks for those calculations Ed, I had worked out something similar before I'd seen the ATI unit to justify my desire for the LED's. One of the main reasons I wanted the LED's was the control over the light output. Before I decided to set-up another planted tank, I was going to get rid of my CO2 kit and tank, and get a larger tank to keep african cichlids. I figured I will want to do a malawi or tanganyikan set-up soonish so I could use the GroBeams at lower intensities to avoid algae. Also the rippling effect would look really good in a freshwater reef.

Now that I've been looking at the ATI, I'd be more than happy with that, obviously it will cost more in leccy and bulb replacements long term. But it has the same flexibilities, but the advantage of being able to change bulbs to make it suitable for marine as well   and while bulbs will cost a fair bit of cash over the years, I would hate for a LED to burn out after the 5 year guarantee with TMC and not be able to change the offending bulb.

The initial outlay is just too much for the LED's I think, along with buying a new tank and stand, not to mention hardscape, substrate and plants. Gawd    I had to get into the most expensive hobbly ever.   

Cheers
Dan


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## Ed Seeley (11 Mar 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Ed Seeley said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've got an AI Sol as opposed to the radion because it kicks out much higher PAR and is cheaper (£430 for the first unit, £400 for further units plus ~£70 for the controller).  The radion spreads the light out much more so packs less punch.  It does have extra colour LEDs but they're really not a factor for corals IMHO.  Otherwise they're similar products.


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## Antipofish (11 Mar 2012)

Hi Ed I guess it depends what you want to use it for.  I was very impressed when I recently saw a demo of the Ecotech. Im not going down the reef route again so I think the Radion would have ample PAR for any of my requirements, even without being at max output.  They are both nice bits of kit for sure.


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## danmullan (15 Mar 2012)

The Radion's look really good over some reef tanks I've seen. Haven't seen any freshwater use though. 

Can't seem to find anything to rival the Dimmable version of ATI's sunpower. They're still far from cheap though. About £350, which is okay, but I would then need 4 tubes and a lighting arm. So it's creeping towards the cost of the GroBeam tiles. However the ATI has the edge as it could be used for a marine set-up in the future.

I'll make the final decision when I have the tank and cabinet. Still haven't decided on where to order from though. All the places that sell custom Opti-white tanks, seem to have pretty good prices for the tank itself, but it's the stand that makes up 2/3rds - if not more - of the tank+stand cost.

I'll just have to keep looking around.


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## Iain Sutherland (15 Mar 2012)

have a look at http://www.naturalaquario.com/?page_id=2336 for light stands, i got one a few weeks ago and ery happy with it, especially considering the price!!
Allow at least 2 weeks for delivery


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## danmullan (16 Mar 2012)

Hi Iain,

Thanks for the tip, funnily enough I think I had come across the NA arm thanks to your journal.   

I'll e-mail them to get quotes for an arm for the size I want. Actually I may as well ask for prices for the tank + cab too. Although it will probably be more expensive once delivery to the UK is added on.

Cheers
Dan


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