# Liquid Carbon Considerations



## jameson_uk (8 Nov 2016)

Just wanting to get a few things clarified before I consider using some liquid carbon.

AIUI you need to dose daily but what happens if I don't?   If I went away for a week would I come back to find the tank plagued with algae?  
If I only dosed occasionally would it actually cause problems due to fluctuating levels (or because it is not actually CO2 would it actually be OK?).    
Could dosing intermittently actually cause water parameters issues that the fish would not be too happy with?
Is it OK to use with shrimps / scaleless fish?
As a treatment to cleanup existing BBA can this be done as and when without issue?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (8 Nov 2016)

Wow, not sure on these ones. curious as to why you ask. Are you away from the tank on certain days?
My understanding is that the plants can't differentiate between liquid and gas carbon. I think I read on AE that liquid carbon is roughly a quarter of the strength as gas but don't quote me on that. That being said I can only go off experience as oppose to science and confirm the following.

I have been away for a week and stopped dosing at not came back to a plaque of algae.
Levels would indeed rise and fall but whether that would trigger fluctuating co2 level type algae I'm not sure.
I doubt the fish would be bothered about fluctuating levels as long as the max dosage is not exceeded in any one day.
Shrimp definitely, scale less fish not sure but I'm sure someone in here or the manufacturer would warn about this.
I have used LC just on water change day to spot dose certain problem areas without any issue.


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## Eduard18 (8 Nov 2016)

Hi !
* I have dosed it occasionally with no issues at all ; but at the same time I use pressurised CO2   24 / 7 
* for someone who used to test a lot of parameters - and often - I can safely say that there are no fluctuations due to infrequent liquid carbon dosing 
* it's perfectly safe for snails, shrimps  ( Amano and red cherry ) and fish  ( otos, gourami, cory, cardinalis, siamese algae eaters - the species I have maintained 
* I have no personal experience with BBA, but I think it's worth trying ; I repeat, there are no side effects ; remember that I have used it at double the recommended dose along with pressurised CO2 at about 30 mg/ l, 24 / 7 

Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## roadmaster (9 Nov 2016)

,My understanding was that gas is easily absorbed across leaves of plant's (stomata ) almost instantly whereas the liquid carbon supplement's must first be metabolized by the plant from within which is slower process,hence the suggested daily or every other day Excel,glut dosing suggestion's.
Is my understanding anyway.
Also my understanding that the liquid carbon supplement is effective for maybe two day's as opposed to gas injection for considerably longer period during the day .
also reason for suggested daily /every other day dosing.
For what it's worth,,I just this week began dosing low tech with Metricide 14 and although it's only been three day's,I have seen no negative reaction from fauna.
Too early to tell what plant's think yet.
I might dial lighting back and perform water change and dosing before I left if only going to be gone a few day's.


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## jameson_uk (15 Nov 2016)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Wow, not sure on these ones. curious as to why you ask. Are you away from the tank on certain days?


I work away a lot so might be away for a couple of days or a week (or home every night).
I am asking as I wasn't sure whether it would be one of those things that once you start you cannot stop.
Just concerned that if I start dosing liquid carbon and then stop that the plants will have gotten used to it and then it will be just like putting emmersed plants in and then needing to re-adjust to submerged life.



> My understanding is that the plants can't differentiate between liquid and gas carbon. I think I read on AE that liquid carbon is roughly a quarter of the strength as gas but don't quote me on that. That being said I can only go off experience as oppose to science and confirm the following.
> 
> I have been away for a week and stopped dosing at not came back to a plaque of algae.
> Levels would indeed rise and fall but whether that would trigger fluctuating co2 level type algae I'm not sure.
> ...


I guess part of this is that I know fluctuating CO2 is going to mean fluctuating pH.   I know Excel is not CO2 so I am not sure whether this affects pH in the same way.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Nov 2016)

No mate, as far as I am aware liquid carbon does not affect the PH. Gas does because co2 is acidic by nature. I know where you are coming from, I used to spend a lot of time away from home working. I mixed up doses of salts dry in containers and asked my missus to dump them in the tank on certain days and more often than not she forgot. I wasn't even going down the route of asking her to dose the LC so the weeks I was home it got dosed LC and when I wasn't it didn't. I also dosed gas as well on a timer so not sure if it would be detrimental.
I would imagine the more stable the LC dosing the better though. Have you considered the automatic dosers? They seem relatively cheap on you know where and there are a few threads on how to go about it on here. Failing that, go for gas. Now fairly cheap and can be set to run while you're away.


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## PARAGUAY (15 Nov 2016)

I think a couple of days would not alter much as long as your nutrient regime is ok. Don't think plants suffer through lack of CO2 as long as other factors like lighting,ferts etc,are right,it's just the growth of plants slow.Liquid carbon as a finite time in the aquarium so dosed correct by the time of the next dose the previous days is used up.Slightly different with sudden loss of pressurised CO2 as everything should be growing faster and plants need less of everything to adapt to slower growth and keep algae from taking over.Just my thought on this


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## jameson_uk (18 Nov 2016)

So out of interest, what will and won't be helped by Excel?   I know Vals are meant to have issues and melt but anything else?
I have dosed Excel  Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week with what appears to be very little effect (although one tetra does seem to be on death's door but not sure if that is related)

Do I _need_ to overdose to fight of the BBA and how long before I should see any difference to growth?
My Rotala in particular is looking very scrawny and I am hoping this will fill out a bit on the new growth but looks no different so far.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (18 Nov 2016)

From my own experience, not sure which plants do or don't like liquid carbon. I have grown Vallis in a LC tank without any issues which also had moss in, also supposed to not like LC. Some issues I did have with the plants but I couldn't honestly attribute that to the liquid LC as oppose to some other mistake I was making. Seems to be differing opinions by more experienced growers in this forum as well so I guess it's suck it and see. I did spill some neat on to an Amazon Sword leaf once rather than it go into the water and it seemed to burn a hole in the leave over time but I guess that's to be expected. It is quite a strong chemical at the end of the day.

I think the dosing for battling with algae is 2x the stated dose, some do and will try higher depending on the sensitivity of the fish. To fight BBA it's best to squirt some directly on it with a pipette or a syringe preferably while the filter isn't running so the LC has as long a contact time as possible.

Like was mentioned earlier on, LC isn't the same as gas co2.in so far has the plant has to process the chemicals in order to extract the carbon from it. Nothing ever happens quickly in any tank when changes have been made so it may be months before you notice any signs of improvement. Me personally, I also dose gas so the only real difference I notice when dosing LC as well is I seem to have to clean my glass less. I suspect a few other issues would rear their heads as well if I didn't. My tank isn't that old and I'm still fine tuning things. LC has given me a bit more flexibility and wiggle room, something I probably would have paid dearly for without it.


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## PARAGUAY (19 Nov 2016)

There's quite a lot of confliction this,the vallis,Egeria,moss not liking LC is often dismissed by plant retailers saying its down to quality of plant ,but proven by top aquascapers,then again especially mosses if using pressurised CO2 is less of a detriment to add LC.


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## micheljq (21 Nov 2016)

jameson_uk said:


> Just wanting to get a few things clarified before I consider using some liquid carbon.
> 
> AIUI you need to dose daily but what happens if I don't?   If I went away for a week would I come back to find the tank plagued with algae?
> If I only dosed occasionally would it actually cause problems due to fluctuating levels (or because it is not actually CO2 would it actually be OK?).
> ...



Hello, about the so called problems with some plants, like vals and crypts.  It is not happening to everyone.  For example my tank is densely planted.  I dose double dose of Excel, and have no issue with vals, nor crypts.  The vals grow quite well.

I have some amano shrimps and corydoras fishes, which are scaleless, and they do not seem bothered.

If you leave for a week or so, just lower the lighting duration for example from 8 to 6 hours, something like 2 hours less, but no less than 6 hours.

Michel.


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