# Got my new (to me) filter, do I need to buy smaller spray bars?



## ojustaboo (6 Oct 2017)

My 2317 filter has turned up.

I currently use 16/22 spraybar on my existing filter.

My new filter has 16/22 into it but only 12/16 out.

Am I right in presuming I need to get 12/16 spraybars rather than heat up and force 12/16 pipe onto my existing 16/22 spraybar?

I presume at it comes out the filter at 12/16 there wont be enough pressure/exit velocity to distribute the CO2 properly if I use my 16/22 spray bar? Which also means mt 16/22 up atomizer will need replacing?


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## Zeus. (6 Oct 2017)

Just get a 12 to 16mm adaptor and cover up a few holes on the spray bar if needed to increase the jet pressure. In fact the 12/16 hose should fit inside the 16/22 hose just put a sleeve inside the smaller hose then clip over the bigger hose.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## ojustaboo (11 Oct 2017)

Thanks Zeus.  I will experiment, but I may well end up making a new 12 (or 13mm)  spraybar.

I was in a fish shop in Norwich at the weekend (Distant Waters) , and they had a couple of about 3 ft long 16/22 size solid eheim pipes. imagine a 3ft spray bar without any holes.  They were priced at  £5.  

But looking at Eheims site, I imagine this is old stock as I cant find anything listed for any size.

Anyone recommend a pipe to use to make a spraybar?  Sure I could get 1/2 inch white plumbing pipe to experiment with, but I would prefer something clear in either green or gray to actually make it out of, any ideas?

Thanks


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## ojustaboo (11 Oct 2017)

Found it 

https://www.fish-fish-fish.com/ehei...MIr4Gq-sHp1gIVzQrTCh0apgf_EAQYASABEgJ4N_D_BwE


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## Keith GH (12 Oct 2017)

ojustaboo

Make sure you can get all the other bits and pieces to set it up first.

When drilling the holes start of with small holes also in two lines eg looking at a clock "3"  and  between the "4"  &  "5"  this will give you a greater water movement.

Keith


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## Edvet (12 Oct 2017)

Keith GH said:


> in two lines eg looking at a clock "3" and between the "4" & "5" this will give you a greater water movement.


Nah, i think it's better to have them in one line and hitting the opposite tank wall ( with lower water to test it ofcourse)


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## Odogg (12 Oct 2017)

Is it better to have the spray bar submerged or could it be just above the water line, thus in a tank with a rim / lid the bar would not bee seen?


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## Edvet (12 Oct 2017)

Just under the waterline, in a low tech you could do it on or just above.


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## KipperSarnie (12 Oct 2017)

Just remember it is easier to make the spray bar holes bigger than it is to make them smaller!
so start small if making your own.


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## ojustaboo (15 Oct 2017)

So I started playing at 10am, and gave up until tomorrow at 7pm 

I did get a long way though, filter booster plumbed in, Pro 3 taken out. All was going great until I had a leak around the seal of my 2217    Got another seal due tomorrow so will leave it until then.

Spent over an hour getting 12mm pipe to fit over a 16mm fitting   I finally did it with the help of a wooden vice, two long nose pliers and a saucepan  of boiling water

I went out and bought 2mm and 2.5mm drills (had 3mm+),  2mm miles too small, 2.5mm not to bad but 3mm a lot better.  I switched between my 2.5mm pipe and my 3mm pipe a few times to make sure I'm happier with the 3mm.  The actual pipe I'm drilling is due here tomorrow.

I had an spare bit of skirting board shaped similar to this, and laid the marked pipe in the grove (see red arrow).  I then duct taped right around the pipe and skirting board at various points, so it wasn't moving.





I then clamped a bit of wood to my drill press that the skirting board could butt up against making sure that the drill was right over the middle of the pipe.  This worked excellently.  All holes in exactly the same part of the pipe.

As there's 10 holes on my normal (short) Eheim spraybar, what I've done is measured out 10 holes equally spaced across the bit of pipe I'm experimenting with. So effectively the spray bar is over double the width of a normal Eheim spraybar  but with the same amount of holes, this way the pressure seems to be about the same.   Previously  I had two spraybars joined together on my pro 3 and there were too many holes, the flow rate/pressure wasn't good enough.

As I will have two of these spraybars   (two 2217's) , if I make sure the holes on the second are in the middle of the ones on the first, I'm hoping it will effectively be like one 20 hole spraybar hence circulate the CO2 nicely  (hope that all made sense)

I presume it doesn't matter having two outlet pipes next to each other?  Previously I had one outlet either side and one return/spray bar coming in either side. Due to my filter booster, it was easier if I altered things so both spraybars come in the same side and both outlets are the same side.

Excuse the quick not to scale drawing  (and my drilled holes are in straight lines unlike this drawing) ,, hopefully this shows what I mean


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## Edvet (16 Oct 2017)

Looks good enough
You could experiment if outlets on both sides give better distribution. Some people might prefer one half spraybar on each side to have less hardware visible. But it's all down to experimenting and personal preferences.


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## ojustaboo (16 Oct 2017)

Thanks, but only got CO2 going through one filter.

Hate it when you place an order and expect it quickly but it doesn't show.  Placed an order at fish fish fish (link in post 4) including some filter spares. Thursday morning I received a message saying they had been dispatched by DPD. It's now 18:20 Monday and nothing. Looking on their facebook post, while not many complaints, they are all about this sort of thing.  I could have got them guaranteed by Friday, their site said all items were in stock 

They've just got in contact with me and appologised, They switched to using DPD last week and have had a few teething problems.  And have confirmed it will be delivered today.(Tuesday)


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## ojustaboo (22 Oct 2017)

Well today I drilled the holes in the actual pipes like the above drawing  (except I did what Edvet suggested, one spraybar entering one side, the other on the other side)

My drill stand must be at a slight angle, one of the spraybars holes all are very slightly to the left, the other to the right. Will post a pic in a couple of days when I get my new outlet pipe

My plants look like they are in a wind tunnel   Either more or bigger holes I think.  Although oddly enough, it's the middle 1/3 of the tank that looks like this. Maybe something to do with it being bow fronted.

Another whole day spent playing around, and another leak just as I thought I was there     Huge puddle from a leak where I had a load of elbows and short bits of pipe jubilee clipped together to make my inlet pipe. Have just ordered a proper bit of pipe like





 I'll get there in the end


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## Zeus. (22 Oct 2017)

I would go for water feed from one side of tank and return on other, will/should mix the CO2 up better IMO.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## ojustaboo (23 Oct 2017)

I fixed the leak while waiting for the proper pipe and took a couple of photos

As you can see, it didn't quite work out as I hoped.


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## Edvet (23 Oct 2017)

Doesn't look bad


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## ojustaboo (25 Oct 2017)

I seem to be going two steps forward and 4 steps back 

I used to have two normal spray bars joined together with a bit of pipe, giving me 21 holes (one was 9 holes, the other slightly longer with 12), and while my drop checker was nice and green, I don't think the CO2 was reaching the bottom of the tanks  (tops of plants were nice and green, other parts weren't dying but were a dull green)

I purchased a filter booster and all I have in it is one box of plastic bio balls.

So filter into filter booster into tank.

Since putting in my new spray bars, the flow is a lot stronger (too strong at the moment) the drop checker stayed blue, I had to almost double the bubble count to get it back to the green.

The holes I drilled are still 3mm, measuring the holes in the ehiem spraybars I replaced, they are 4.5 mm, so I've gone from 21 oles at 4.5mm to 10 at 3mm. I suspect that explains why I'm having to turn the CO2 up even though the flow rate is better?

That being the case, maybe I should double up on the number of holes?  I should still have the other spray bar giving a good flow rate.

Tank water was very smelly/musty this morning too (did a 70% change Sunday)


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## Zeus. (25 Oct 2017)

ojustaboo said:


> I seem to be going two steps forward and 4 steps back
> 
> I used to have two normal spray bars joined together with a bit of pipe, giving me 21 holes (one was 9 holes, the other slightly longer with 12), and while my drop checker eent nice and green, I don't think the CO2 was reaching the bottom of the tanks  (tops of plants were nice and green, other pars weren't dying but were a dull green)
> 
> ...


I higher CO2 injection rate with higher turnover does have advantages, remember CO2 is free.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## ceg4048 (25 Oct 2017)

ojustaboo said:


> The holes I drilled are still 3mm, measuring the holes in the ehiem spraybars I replaced, they are 4.5 mm, so I've gone from 21 oles at 4.5mm to 10 at 3mm. I suspect that explains why I'm having to turn the CO2 up even though the flow rate is better?


10 holes at 3mm diameter yields an open surface area of approximately 71 square mm.
21 holes at 4.5mm diameter yields an open surface area of approximately 334 square mm.
If the spraybar Inside Diameter (ID) is 12mm then the input open surface area is 113 square mm.
The 10 holes are probably choking the flow. This is an assumption as I do not know what the ID actually is (12 mm may be the OD, not ID)

While the exit velocity through these smaller holes may by higher, the mass flow rate of water would be lower. 
Do not confuse velocity for mass flow.
As you suspect, you may be sending out much less CO2 enriched water into the tank at the same injection rate.

The total surface area of the holes should never be lower than the spraybar ID.
The spraybar ID should never be lower than the filter outlet ID.

Cheers,


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## ojustaboo (25 Oct 2017)

Thanks.  Inside is 12 (12/16 pipe)  as is my filter output.

Well to be exact, my filter output is 12/16, it then goes to 16/22 into my up atomizer, then into my filter booster, exits filter booster still at 16/22 and goes back down to 12/16 at the spray bar.


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## ceg4048 (26 Oct 2017)

OK.
It does not matter if the flow enters a larger diameter in the circuit. So going into a 16mm ID pipe only slows the velocity at that point, but as soon as it enters the next 12mm ID pipe the velocity increases again but the mass flow rate is the same.

Mass flow rate is always limited by the smallest cross sectional area anywhere in the circuit.
So if the cross sectional area of the combined area of the holes in the spray bars is the smallest area then that will reduce the flow rate.

Cheers,


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