# atomizer bubbles from a diy spray bar



## danmil3s (22 Mar 2011)

hi guys just wondering if anyone has experience of the above. its no big deal but the bubbles from my atomizers only seem to come out of 2 places on the spray bar. my power heads catch them and blow them round so it doesn't matter but i was wondering if anyone knew the cause and if it was a simple fix. if there is simple solution i might try it. as it makes a bit of noise but its not worth messing around and spending money on. the spray bays a 1.25' pipe with 6mm holes every 70mm or so feed from a fx5 and a 2000lp power head, that's running 2 boyu in lines. if i turn the power heads off there's no change, if i cover the hole the bubbles come from there is no change, if i change the spray bar angle there is no change. any ideas or is it just one of them things. like i say not really worth building a new spray bar for unless someone's done it before. don't want to waste cash on it.


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## stevec (22 Mar 2011)

this was happening to me found the problem to be fluval hose sucking in air not the diffuser had to wrench up those jubilee clips pretty damn tight
you got me wondering about my spraybar now i put 3mm holes in mine


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## danmil3s (22 Mar 2011)

no its definitely the co2 causing the bubbles once its of they stop. you say your worried about your holes mine might be to big.


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## foxfish (22 Mar 2011)

I use a 855mm long, 20mm dia pipe with 2mm holes every 25mm to deliver a good even flow from a 2000 lph pump.


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## stevec (23 Mar 2011)

I put 3mm holes in about 20mm apart on a 1" spraybar which is 700mm lg fed from both ends by the filter and have had to turn the fx5 flow down as flow was to fierce


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## danmil3s (23 Mar 2011)

smaller holes seems the norm. but Steve if you make your holes larger the pressure should be less which should ease the fierceness. are any of you guys using in line atomizers


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## stevec (23 Mar 2011)

yes i use aquamedic 1000 inline get 100% disolution


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## danmil3s (23 Mar 2011)

i tried several reactors but they couldn't cope with the injection rate. i like the in line seems better only small bubbles come out unfortunately they end up as large out of the spray bar.


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## Coiln3107 (23 Mar 2011)

Steve and Foxfish have obviously got there reactors sorted   Reactors only work will and give zero bubbles if you drive them. On my Aquamas I can feed a continious stream, not individual bubbles into them and get zero mist or bubbles on the spraybar. 100% diffusion, .A lot of people strap them on to output of filters that are already taxed to a silly point. You get on a good day 50%, output then dirty hoses,media, and you add a reactor  . What chance does the reactor have of working properly? Have fun kind regards Colin.


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## danmil3s (23 Mar 2011)

i think total diffusion gets more difficult the harder the water gets. i've got 18 dGH and 10 dKH tap water and a 750l tank with over 300w of ho t5s with reflectors so a lot of gas (over a kg a week easily). i ran a sera active 1000 reactor that filled with gas and a tried  feeding it with a bouy in line atomizer, it still filled with gas. both attempts where powered with a dedicated 2000lph pump. i don't mind the bubbles just using the in line gives me. in fact i like them i can see my flow now. i was just curious if any one knew why i had large bubbles and most people get a mist from there spray bar. the farting noise bugs me a bit to. but my plants seem happier.


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## foxfish (23 Mar 2011)

I can only imagine that the bubbles are caused through your spray bar design - basically the holes are to big & the pipe is allowing the micro bubbles to sit in the top of the bar.
If you had smaller holes the bar would have increased flow along its length & force out all the micro bubbles before they can accumulate?


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## Tony Swinney (24 Mar 2011)

I'd agree with Foxfish on this.  When I used a 1" diameter spray bar, the micro bubbles would accumulate at he highest point in the spraybar, then when a bubble got big enough to touch one of the outlet holes ( which were 3mm ), that bubble would pop out.

My solution was to reduce the diameter of the spray bar.

Tony


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## danmil3s (24 Mar 2011)

thanks guys that's what i thought was happening. I'll see how cheap i can make a new spay bar. how thin should i go


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## Coiln3107 (25 Mar 2011)

Hi guys, by reducing the diameter of the spraybar you increase the velocity of the water internally within the spraybar therfor it is more difficult for the bubbles to collect   kind regards Colin.


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## danmil3s (25 Mar 2011)

ok thanks for the input guys i think ill try a smaller diameter with smaller holes. only problem is i cant find ridged black pipe under 32mm diameter . any idea where i should be looking. was thinking between 15 and 20mm?


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## Nelson (25 Mar 2011)

does it have to be  ridged black ?.
if not,

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Clear-Plastic- ... 34.c0.m322

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Clear-Plastic- ... 34.c0.m322


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## Coiln3107 (26 Mar 2011)

Neil thats a great find E bay store, for this answer and all the guys making reactors. Recently I answered a guy who wished he could see what was going on in side the reactor as his 50mm tube was black or grey but this shop you found will help both these answers for sure regards Colin.


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## Nelson (26 Mar 2011)

i can't take the credit for it.someone else on here found it   .


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## danmil3s (26 Mar 2011)

thanks nelson i did have a spray bar made out of that pipe from that ebay store. it worked ok but being clear needed cleaning every week or 2 to keep it looking nice. anyway one day it just broke in half. being nearly 2m long makes it hard to handle and i guess over time a combination of co2 and water affected it. i was thinking some think like John guest speed fit but they don't do black. maybe ill just suffer the bubbles


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## Nelson (26 Mar 2011)

danmil3s said:
			
		

> anyway one day it just broke in half. being nearly 2m long makes it hard to handle and i guess over time a combination of co2 and water affected it.


thats not good to hear.i've made a spraybar from it.mines only 70cm though.


			
				danmil3s said:
			
		

> i was thinking some think like John guest speed fit but they don't do black.


i've used something like that before in black from B&Q.can't see it online anymore though.


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## foxfish (26 Mar 2011)

nelson said:
			
		

> does it have to be  ridged black ?.
> if not,
> 
> http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Clear-Plastic- ... 34.c0.m322
> ...


Just note that the tube is made from acrylic & is difficult to glue into PVC & PVC is what 99% of fittings are made from.
Fine for spray bars or internal realtors but you need to think hard about using acrylic to build a external reactor.
You can buy clear PVC tube as well but usually only in long expensive lengths!


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## danmil3s (26 Mar 2011)

yeah i tried to glue it forgot to mention  that it cant easily be used for reactor building, i tried and failed. i think using it as a spray bar at 700mm you should be ok. mine was so long it was hard to support whilst cleaning. was a year old to.


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## Coiln3107 (26 Mar 2011)

Hi guys, Google glueing acrylic and there is tons on it including videos. I appreciate that its not as  easy as feeding the fish, but equally it is not difficult, like anything in life you just have to know how to do it, kind regards Colin.


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## foxfish (26 Mar 2011)

You come across as a very clever, experienced & knowable chap Colin - you are obversely having fun helping folk on this forum!
So how do you glue Acrylic to PVC?


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## Nelson (27 Mar 2011)

never tried it but would this not work ?.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plast-Plastics- ... B002W6OSI0


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## Coiln3107 (27 Mar 2011)

Hi Foxfish, try this link,http://www.dymax.com/ they have several products in there range, some I have used with results on up to very high pressures. Camera enclosures made from Poly carb, lexan, and Pu at  depths when diving of 90m never leaked yet.  have fun Colin.


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## foxfish (27 Mar 2011)

I see, however the point I was trying to make is acrylic tube is not really the best material to mate with PVC for the average DIY reactor build & contributors on this thread should know the potential issues involved.

PVC as a general rule, requires the use of readily available solvent glue to make the pipe fitting joints secure & water tight. This glue however is not recommended for bonding to acrylic.

You can buy PVC clear pipe & IMHO would be a far easier & definitely more suitable purchase than tyring to use specialist clues to achieve what is otherwise a very easy job.

So you are a diver, but not a member of deeper Blue? (I manage the db forum, to be fair, although we now have 24k members - our scuba section has become very quiet over the last few years)


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## Coiln3107 (27 Mar 2011)

Hi Foxfish, yes for sure I agree the the PVC route is from a DIY point of view the easier way. I will pm you on our details in Scotland and if you are ever up my way a dive would be good, kind regards Colin.


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## danmil3s (29 Mar 2011)

tried a 22mm pipe tonight with 3mm holes ever 100mm or so. just the 2000lph pump and co2 through it. still the same problem bubbles only coming out of 1 or 2 places. on but instead of farting it squeaks. any thoughts.


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## foxfish (29 Mar 2011)

Sorry mate but can you explain your system again, how are you feeding the gas, where is the pump etc, a picture would be good    ?


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## danmil3s (29 Mar 2011)

i hope that makes sense the whole lot is in the tank all just hose clipped together while i play with it. couldn't get a decent photo the spray bar but its just a 1.25" waste pipe with holes. when i tried the 22mm pipe i fitted it straight on the end of the 2nd boyu. maybe i need to try 15mm pipe closer to the pump and boyu ID. the 22 was just laying around in the garage. thanks for the help.


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## mdhardy01 (29 Mar 2011)

Hi danmil3s 
I think the problem you have is that your pumping the gas through at too much pressure
The boyus arent like the ups they don't need slot of pressure to drive them they also give larger bubbles
Are the bubbles exiting from the end of the spray bar ? If so the pressure from the pump is pushing the gas to the end of the spray bar before it has a chance to exit along the length as the bubbles are larger try reducing the pressure from your reg u til you have as small a bubbles as pos or get yourself an up atomiser thet give a much finer mist even when driven hard
Matt


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## danmil3s (30 Mar 2011)

the pressure @ my reg is only .9 bar the bubbles don't all come out of the end they come  out of several places along the bar. it could be to much pressure from the pump i guess' ill try turning it down tonight when i get home. don't really want to buy an up as i keep spending money and getting no where. no sure that would work any way the bubbles the boyu makes are not huge they just join in the spray bar. maybe as a last resort. the more i think about it the more the noise bugs me.


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2011)

Well you could try a quick fix & just feed the gas into the pump inlet, or if you have a simple diffuser (even an air stone) you could place that just below your pump.
Long term you can buy an UP for about £15.
How is your tank filtered?


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## danmil3s (30 Mar 2011)

ive tried the bubbles straight in to the fx5 but it filled will gas. although i do have a plan i'll split the pump flow in 2 and run a boyu under each power head.   should solve my problem. but think that's a project for the weekend. ill let you know how it goes.


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## stevec (30 Mar 2011)

i found the higher the filter flow the smaller the bubbles


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## danmil3s (30 Mar 2011)

rated 2000lph is pretty high. i think if i split it under the power heads i should get good distribution and should stop the farting. im starting to get fed up with co2 wish id got t8 lighting.


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2011)

There is obviously something wrong with your whole C02 set up!
There are hundreds of us using spray bars & in line diffusers with no problems!
You just need to use one functional in line diffuser after your external filter going into a 20mm spray bar with 3mm holes drilled every 50mm?


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## danmil3s (30 Mar 2011)

ill try what you say foxfish cant afford the up atomizer yet but ill put more holes in the 22mm spray bar see if that helps the noise.  ill have a go at splitting it like i mentioned as well. ive got the bits kicking about so wont hurt to try. i just might be trying to force to many bubbles through the spray bar thanks for all your help guys.


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## danmil3s (4 Apr 2011)

ok so i went for the cheap hassle free option and imo its worked as ive had to turn the gas down. all i did was drill a 6mm hole at the top of the spray bar then push a bit of 5mm co2 hose in a few mm and fix the other end under the power head (did both power heads).  now the gas build of goes straight in to the power heads, bit at a time gets chopped up and blown round the tank. no farting or squeaking hardly makes a noise. so far so good .


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