# Seachem Flourite Black



## Jaap (27 Oct 2011)

Hello,

1. Is Seachem Flourite Black a good substrate to be used on its own to grow DHG with good llighting, CO2 and EI?

2. Is Seachem Flourite larger thatn Seachem Flourite Black?

3. Can Seachem Flourite Black be used on its own?

4. Any review on this product?

Thanks.


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## ceg4048 (27 Oct 2011)

Hello,
        This product is essentially baked clay and is not otherwise enriched or fortified with nutrients. It is pretty much the same as the Category 2 products as discussed in the thread Flora max V Eco complete 

This is not to say that it's bad. Clay substrates are excellent media for rooted aquatic plants but you'll be paying a special price for not-so-special clay. If you're going to spend that kind of money then you should get something really special like Amazonia or Oliver Knott's Nature Soil (Category 3).

If you don't want to spend that kind of money then just use kitty litter or Akadama, which are also just clay.

Cheers,


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## Emyr (27 Oct 2011)

I have been using flourite black in my tank for over 6 months and it is all growing fantastically. I also added a few root tabs. Im growing HC, hairgrass and many other demanding plants. To me is seems perfect. I havent used Aquasoil yet but plan to in my nano tank which im planning. Looking forward to the comparison. 

I don't understand how it cant have any nutrients in it when on their website they show you the list of nutrients within the substrate?

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... Black.html


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## ceg4048 (28 Oct 2011)

Well, first of all, are you saying that the only reason that your plants are growing fantastically is strictly because of Flourite Black? This is how people get into trouble, by drawing incomplete correlation. I can grow fantastic plants using nothing but plain sand. I've even grown fantastic plants using marbles. Is the tank that these fantastic plants are in being enriched by CO2? Are nutrients being added to the water column? if the answer to these questions is yes then it's really not logical to attribute the success of the plants to Flourite Black alone. have you read the Akadama Sticky at the top of this section? JamesC demonstrated quite clearly that you don't really need overpriced designer substrates to grow fantastic plants, because at the end of the day they are all basically the same - just clay.

Secondly, clays are made of more or less the same elements listed on that website. That's what they forgot to mention. I mean, clay is made of Aluminum. There are all kinds of minerals in clay, just like any other rock or inorganic dirt. Different clays from different areas have different combinations of these elements. 

Some animals, like deer or Amazonian Monkeys and Macaws actually find clay banks and eat the clay to get the minerals they contain and to absorb the toxins that are contained in the vegetation that they browse on, so it's hardly surprising or revolutionary that Flourite contains these elements. but the small amount of micronutrients contained in the clay is not what makes this product useful. What makes any clay substrate useful is the ability of clay to pull nutrients from the water column and to transfer them to the plant roots. That's why, in this sense, Flourite Black is not much better than kitty litter, which is also constructed of clay. If you get a lab to do a chemical analysis of Akadama you'll get a very similar list as that shown on your link. It's just not that big of a deal.

There are only a few substrates that are actually enriched with significant quantities of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium - and they don't just come out of the ground like that naturally. Those clay products are soaked in NPK and then they are baked to hold the nutrients in place. So if you compare the nutrient content of Amazonia with that Flourite Black or Red or whatever, you'll find that the Amazonia has much more of what plants need. That doesn't make Flourite bad, far from it. It just makes it not worth the inflated price because it's not in the same league as Amazonia.

Cheers,


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## clonitza (28 Oct 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> There are only a few substrates that are actually enriched with significant quantities of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium - and they don't just come out of the ground like that naturally. Those clay products are soaked in NPK and then they are baked to hold the nutrients in place. So if you compare the nutrient content of Amazonia with that Flourite Black or Red or whatever, you'll find that the Amazonia has much more of what plants need. That doesn't make Flourite bad, far from it. It just makes it not worth the inflated price because it's not in the same league as Amazonia.
> 
> Cheers,



Yes, but after a couple of months when the nutrients leach in the water column the enriched soils like Amazonia are no better than regular clay based soils.

IMHO the only valid reason to buy a fancy soil is for aesthetic purposes and not for their "miraculous" properties.


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## ceg4048 (28 Oct 2011)

Well the nutrient retention of Amazonia is very good from looking at the data Barr collected. The P and K retention is very good and the Nitrogen retention less so but still good.

Additionally, there are other ergonomic reasons which make Amazonia (I) a worthy substrate. All you have to do is to stick your hand into the substrate and you'll see. It has a velvety soft feel and does not attack your hand like many sharp edged substrates. This is a real advantage if you do a lot of re-planting or messing about in the substrate. Of course it's not the only substrate that is kind on the hands but the total package of nutrient richness, visual aesthetics, and physical properties put's it in another class. Yes, it is overpriced, but as I mentioned one can (almost) justify it's high price a lot better than these other clay substrates that have none of these advantages.

Cheers,


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## clonitza (28 Oct 2011)

On the other hand it crumbles, it's not made for heavy replanting cause it's messy and you have to spend another week after a session to clean the tank of debris. I just find it suitable for ADA style of setting a tank: add plants in, trim and throw it away when you need to rescape.


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## ceg4048 (28 Oct 2011)

I've had Amazonia for years and it has not crumbled. There may be issues with individual samples but I've never had issues with mine. I don't throw away money well spent. I've reuse it without problems. some people report that it turns to mush or whatever but I've not had that. Could be just luck of the draw I suppose.

Two year old "Pre-owned" Amazonia used in a rescape. not as pristine as it once was probably, but not terrible by any means.






Cheers,


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## clonitza (28 Oct 2011)

Mine looks good also but it's only 6 months old. I think with a careful wash it can be reused if a hard scape positioning is required. I don't dismiss it for being a bad soil, it serves its purpose very well but I think people should choose soils by the looks like when choosing light bulbs.

Cheers,
Mike


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## ceg4048 (28 Oct 2011)

Well I don't think that cover all the different possible scenarios. Remember that the main focus of the ADA system is to lower the water column nutrient level. This also reduces the risk of high TDS buildup in the water column. there are those, like Ed Seeley for example, who want to maintain as low as possible TDS for their particular fish, whether this is for breeding or other issues. The advantage of an enriched sediment is that you can get good growth wile minimizing the water column dosing and thereby reducing the TDS buildup. of course, as i mentioned in that link above, you can still do that by DIY methods of enriching a less expensive substrate but if money is not a problem then this is a great product. Having an enriched sediment also allows you the luxury of missing water column dosing now and again, without paying too much of a penalty. This is great for people who go out of town and don't want to trust a novice with taking care of the tank in their absence. This is a real advantage because there are plenty of horror stories letting someone inexperienced near your carefully crafted tank, even for a few days.

Cheers,


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## Radik (28 Oct 2011)

I like it as aesthetic substrate on its own in 2 of my tanks with for some CEC properties, if you do EI fertilization then you can skip amazonia. or root tabs anyway. I rescape too often and it is pain in amazonia in seachem sand it is great.


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