# Dymax Tropical 36 watt



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hello,
I am using 2x36 watt Dymax tropical on my 30 G planted tank, with CO2 and EI. 
First I was using 1x36 watt for 3 month or so, but growth was not very good so since 2 weeks I'm using the 3. 
I wanted to know if some one have already use Dymax Tropical light ??
Are they good for planted tank ?

Thank you very much for your time. 
Cheers 
Zanguli


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## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
			   Yes, any light you can see with your own eyes is good for planted tank.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

OK thanks Clive
hope you are ok 
still planing the new scape of the first tank !!
a bit busy with work these weeks ! and the tank is a meeeeesssss !!
regards


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

just to know I turn on the second bulb for 3,5 hours on the 7 hours period is it good ?


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## Palm Tree

1x 36w bulb should be enough in my opinion.


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## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
			 I'm doing OK mate. I wouldn't mind getting some of your Congolese weather, to be honest. I wish you could put some in the post and send it express.

As Palm Tree suggests, if you are getting algae in that tank then the answer to your question is: "No it is not good".

If you are not getting algae then the answer is "Yes, it is good".

You didn't mention which plants are in the tank. Some may be slow to get started. More water changes and more CO2 will help.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi ,
hahaha i wish I could send you that !!! But without joke this year we have really hot weather !! For one year my tank was at 26 C° since a week temp is going from 29 C° to 31C°.
yesterday we had 42 C° out side, it was hell  !!! and for Congo that's not usual at all !!
As you know I have two tank. The first one 60G is having algae issues again, but the second one (the one we are talking in this thread) doesn't have algae problems.
It s only since two weeks that I have turn on the second bulb, so I will control for algae !!! In fact that tank is a test tank. I would like to push a bit the lights, to see where I could reach and if I can manage that strong lights !!! 
CO2 is on 24/7 initial Ph is 7.3 and tank ph is at 5.7, there is no stock live in this tank. My only problem is ferts I don't know until were I can push, but I don't have GBA, no GSA, so maybe ferts are good  lol. I am using ADA amazonia soil.

In that tank there is, 
-rotala rondi. red sp
-Hemianthus micranthemoides 
-Hemianthus callitrichoides 
- Cryptocorine wendtii mioya
-glossostigma
-Riccia
-ludwigia accurata
-flam moss
-spike moss
-chrismass moss
- and I have one echinodorus I don't know if it is telenus i don't think so because it can go to 60 cm long, i will put a pic.

I don't know if there are slow starter in here ??

The only thing that make me sad with that tank, is that when I cam back from thailand, I have bring the ludwigia accurata, and it was very healthy, very red and growing like crazy in the first tank.
The day I had scape the second tank I decided to move the ludwigia to that tank. It was a huge mistake !!!!!! the plants was starting to melt from the bottom, and on almost 40 to 50 stem, today I have 7 stem !!! I don't know why ?? But at least I save the plant !!  
Let me put a pic of how it was before i move it ! 
Does some know a thread talking about that plant ? because I have read some where that it's a hard plant !!

Well i think it's better that I start a journal about that tank ??!!!

cheers and thanks again for your time guys 

Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Unfortunately that s the only good pic I have of it 

Regards 


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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			That looks pretty nice to me. I think you just need some patience. Of course the mosses, the glosso and the H. callitrichoides are very slow and take a while to get going. As usual, the Ludwigia should have had more CO2 and that would have helped with the melting. If there are no fish then you can pump as much CO2 in the tank as you want.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi,
I wanted to know if you think I should give a good trim on this HC to get more runners and more density ?? 







If yes, should I trim it right to the substrate or I just trim one or two cm ? 

Thanks again for your time
Soon I will start a journal of that tank 

Best regards
Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

what you can see in the some of the HC is not algae !!!! 
it's riccia growing inside the HC then dying in side the HC !
not all the HC have it, only two group of it have it.
sorry for the quality of the pic, but it's hard to take close up pic with iphone!

cheers


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## ceg4048

OK, well, next time you are in Thailand maybe you can buy a DSLR. 

Trim the HC right to the carpet like a lawn mower, and if you have the patience, replant the trimmings using a pair of forceps or tongs. When the carpet plants grow upward like that then it usually means that flow to the lower front area is not as good as it should be. Cutting the plant induces the new growth to be more adapted to being under water. If the new growth continues to grow upwards then you might need to revisit your flow/distribution. At least it's not turning brown or melting though, so that's always a good sign.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi thanks for your answer,

I am sorry but i don't know what is a DSLR  ????
Ok so I should trim it as much as I can to the substrate ! 
Maybe your right about the flow because I had some plants that was a bit blocking the flow on the left back corner, but yesterday night I took out these plant, I gave also a good trim to the moss that was on the left and also to the background plants.
I think now it will be ok !!! I have done that yesterday at midnight and your are advising me to do it today !! kind of telepathy hehe .
It's a 85 L tank with a fluval 305 on it so I think that if I monitor well the plants I should have no problem of flow ??!!
Do you know a good thread about ludwigia arcuata ?

thanks again for your good advice.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

ok now I understand what is a lawn mower  I ll do it !!
I continue to learn english even in a aquatic forum lol


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## ceg4048

Sorry mate DSLR is just a digital camera (Digital Single Lens Reflex). Nikon and Canon are the popular brands.

I'm not sure what the flow rating is for the 305 but even so, having the flow is one thing, but distributing the flow energy to the areas that need it is actually very difficult. That's why I like the spraybar concept.

Yes, lawn mower is the device to cut you grass, so when we use this term it's to cut it down right to the substrate. It will look very ugly for some time until it grows back. L. acuata is not  all that popular as far as I can see, but it's a very nice plant. I don't know of any threads off hand but just do a forum search using that name.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi,
My sister have a Canon D5 so I ll ask her to take pic of my tank ! I ll try to find a tripod for her !!
the fluval 305 is rating 900L/h on the paper I don't know the net rate ! I will look at the flow for the coming month if I see that HC is still growing upward. So if I understand well it will be the same for the glosso, if it's growing growing upward, there is a flow problem ?? The HC is on the front left and the glosso on the front right, and it's getting less flow ! but no melting no browning  !
An other thing is that I can't cut too much the HC because I am using ADA AS and it's not the powder type so if I cut too much the HC it will uproot !!!
at least I had cut it as much as I can !!! I let you know what will happen !

best regards
Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi,
It's been a week that I had trim the HC, it's start to respond well !!
I have also look at flow down to the lower front, it seem to be ok, but I am sure at 70% that i will switch to spraybar instead of lilly pipe !! you are always right Clive LOL.
let me monitor the front part of the tank for 2 more weeks and I ll let you know !! 
thanks again

Best regards


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Should I trim it every 3 weeks, to help it for carpeting or 3 weeks is a bit short ??


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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			 Yes, trim as often as you can stand to look at it so short...

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

ok thanks


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive and members
I know it s not the wright place to talk about this because we are in light section but as we started to talk about this on this thread I think it's better to continue here. 
So first more than a week ago switched the outlet from right back corner to left front corner p, pointing toward the left front corner. This was done for better flow on the lower front part. 
After a week I have noticed a great improvement on the HC starting to shoot new bright green leaves.
But I wasn't happy about the flow, and I started notice some hair algae at the back that was just starting. 
So two days ago I decided to take out the Lilly pipe and switch to the spray bar. I know I know Clive it took me some time to switch. But I wanted to experiment my self first before taking that step haha.  Now since two day riccia start to pearl yeeeaaah hehe 
I have also crank up a bit the CO2. Now I am waiting the in line atomizer I have order yesterday. For waiting I have put the inside diffuser on the front glass. 
Now flow is much better and I will follow the evolutions with that change and let you know. 

Ok I have two questions
I have finish my flourish comprehensive and I need to make a micro solution with my dry trace mix. But I am not sure about the quantity could you help me with that please. The mix is coming from a French web site. 
As I have two tank if you could give me for both it would be great 

First one is the 23 G tank
Second is the 70 G tank. 

My other question is about the DIY 4KH solution. I have followed your recipe with backing soda. But once I have put the ph reactor, the solution turned yellow, almost orange and since than it stayed in this color ! Even if I hang the drop checker out side of the tank ! 
U have used bicarbonate de soude in french is it this that I have to use ?

Here is a side view of the 23 G tank. As you can see HC was not doing good. I have took this pic before changing the outlet. I wanted to share this pic because I like it lol. 





Thanks for you your time 
Cheers 


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi,
it's seems that no one want to answer me lol
I have an other question/issue :
I have Amazonia soil from ADA there but it's the normal form not the powder type, and my HC have a lot of problem to get the roots attached to the substrate. It s really tricky to trim it because as soon as you touch it it wants to up roots. And now because of this I this all the new shoots are growing away from the substrate and its not really carpeting. 
If someone can help me with that problem it could be nice !! 
I know that the best way would be to up root every thing and plant it again but that is a long and hard process lol so maybe someone have a better idea.

My other problems are just on the above post if some could answer it, it would be great !!! 
thanks guys

Zanguli


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## ceg4048

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> I have finish my flourish comprehensive and I need to make a micro solution with my dry trace mix. But I am not sure about the quantity could you help me with that please. The mix is coming from a French web site. As I have two tank if you could give me for both it would be great First one is the 23 G tank Second is the 70 G tank.


Hi zanguli,
   Trace mixes are not that difficult to figure out. Just start with the standard solution given in the EI Tutorial:


> add  ½ teaspoon to 200 ml of water and dose 25 ml (for each 20G) two times per week.


So the small tank get 25 ml 2X per week and the big one gets 75ml 2X per week. To make the solution last longer just scale everything. You can add twice as much powder and dose 1/2 the amount or add twice as much powder to twice as much water and dose the same amount.



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> My other question is about the DIY 4KH solution. I have followed your recipe with backing soda. But once I have put the ph reactor, the solution turned yellow, almost orange and since than it stayed in this color ! Even if I hang the drop checker out side of the tank ! U have used bicarbonate de soude in french is it this that I have to use ?


Hmm, I'm not really sure about this mate. Even in French it should have a chemical formula NaHCO3
If it's some other product it may have some acids in it which would explain the yellow color. Take a sample of the mixture you made and measure the KH if you have a test kit to see if it is actually 4.

Does it turn back to blue if left outside the tank for a while?



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> I know that the best way would be to up root every thing and plant it again but that is a long and hard process lol so maybe someone have a better idea.


You could just bury the HC by putting more sediment on top of it and let it grow out again. That's a very crude method though.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive ,

Thanks for your answer mate !!!
yes yesterday when i came back from work I went on the tutorial and did the solution according to the tutorial I will just double the dose of powder like that I just dose 1/2 it will be easier !!! So that's good .
I will stay to that amount for few weeks because I made a big pruning in the tank and took out significant biomass !! So even my macros that was 1,3 x EI dosing i will reduce to 1x EI (for the 70 G tank). For the 23 G i stick EI.

Yes Bicarbonate de soude is NaHCO3 !!
Even if i leave the solution for two days outside the tank it stays yellow !!! I will redo the all recipe, maybe I made a mistake somewhere !!! I don't have a Kh test kit only Gh.

For the HC that's a great idea !! even if it's a crude methode but it will be efficient, i will do that on thursday because I have to take out the wood to retied the moss on it !!
I had put cotton thread instead of fishing line !!! So now I know that cotton thread is not really good for that lol. Than I take some substrate put it on top and after that 70% WC.


Tell me have you read "the guide to dosing strategies" from Greg Watson ?? i buy it yesterday night !!! I ll read it on monday cause I have to on the river for the week end !!
it's a good reading ?

Well thanks for you answer and explanation !!!!!!
cheers mate


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

I just finish  and in fact I already knew all the things that was inside hehe !!!
That's ok it will fit well on my book shelf next to the Barr Report. 

Cheers 


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## ceg4048

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> I already knew all the things that was inside hehe !!!


 
That's why I didn't buy it....

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi 
I have done again the whole recipe with the backing soda for a 4kh recipe and it didn't work ! So I think that my backing soda is not good quality or they have not done it the good way lol. I will look for a better quality !

Cheers 


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## ceg4048

zanguli, maybe there is something wrong with your ph reagent. Are you sure it's OK? Sorry this doesn't seem to be working.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

i HAVE 2 bottle of ADA reagent and to be sure what I have done. like i have two tank i did one drop checker with my first bottle of reagent (it was allready open) and for the second one I opened the new bottle. I have even made the test after with tank water and it was ok (changing color). So I don't think it's the reagent but the backing soda I have both in a congolese drugstore !!!

thanks for answering 
regards


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive and members
Do you think I should take out my JBL Symec that is in my filter for a better flow. 
I am starting to think that I don't need in for 24/7 like I do !! 
Just for info u have it also in the two filter of the other tank. 
So should I take it out and put it back only when I have cloudy water or when I have to take pictures of the tank ??

Best regards guys 
Just to tell, so far I love my journey on this forum since I signed in !!!


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## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
				 Yes, sure, just remove it and get as much flow as you can from the filter. Do bigger water changes and that will help make the tank look clearer.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi ,
Yesterday night I understood what is the problem with the recipe for the 4 dKH solution. The recipe is good the problem is the distilled water !!! It's a local production and they produce at the same place acid for battery. So the bottles they use have a small amount of acid in and and add distilled water ! So the ph of that water is very acid. The ph meter was showing 0,00 !! So now I understand my yellow DC and also why I have precipitation in my micro solution !!
Do you think I should do the 4dKH solution with my tap water. Tap water have a dGH under 1 but I don't have a dKH test so I don't know this one. And for the micro solution can I do it with tap water also ?? 
Aaaaaah it's good to find what was this problem. Do you think it was "killing" my micro solution ??? 

Thanks 
Cheers


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## ceg4048

Wow, zanguli, if I didn't know any better, I would say that you were dreaming all of this. Are they selling this distilled water for people to drink? Please say "No" even if it's not the truth. That way I'll be able to sleep better at night.

There is no way you can accurately use your tap water directly, even if it is soft, because you would need to know exactly what the KH of the water is, and then you would have to adjust the amount of Baking powder to bring the KH up to 4. It could be possible to boil the water but it is not certain that you would remove all the alkalinity by doing so. If you are lucky, the water from the tap is exactly 4 and you might be able to use it, but you have not been very lucky so far...

The only way I can think of is to boil and condense your water. So you would heat the water and collect the steam with covers and tubing. Then route the steam to another vessel where it will cool and return to liquid. Then that water will be more or less pure.

Alternatively, you might try collecting rain water in a clean plastic container placed in an open area, away from any structure or tree, and use that in your recipe. This would be the easiest way, but it would be the least accurate way.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi master ,
nooooo they are not giving it to people for drink ahaha , so you can sleep relax lol !!
well maybe i can look where they produce it and bring my proper container, or i will look if someone is importing distilled water from EU.
I think the boiling technic will be a pain in the *** because it will take ages to get 1,5 L of water in the other vessel lol.
The rain technic will be easy because we are in the rainy season and it's raining every two day, and with the big rain in about 10 min or less in an open space, i can have these 1,5 L.
What about my Micro solution should I throw it away and make a new one with tap water ?

cheers master

Zanguli


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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			Well, it's not really clear to me what is happening to your micro mix. If you have precipitates in the bottle we would need to identify what the precipitate is in order to determine if the mix has been ruined. There are two possible cases:

Case #1
Sometimes, people make up their mix and they do not add enough water, so the powders cannot dissolve completely. When the water cools, the powders fall out of solution because they have a lower solubility at low temperatures than at high temperatures, right? So if this is the case then all you would need to do is to add more water and adjust your dosing to account for the extra water in the mix.

Case #2
If the precipitates are due to some chemical change where the metals in the powder, like Iron or Zinc for example, combines with some other ion in the water, like phosphate or hydroxide, then this is a different story because the precipitate removes the metals from the mix, and therefore lowers the concentration of the nutrient in the mix.

Now get ready for something really crazy!
That acid you were talking about? Well, that's the best thing to add to your micro mix because acid prevents the trace metals from combining with other ions in the water. The acid also kills fungus and mold. It's perfect. Use that same water from the battery acid plant for your micro mix.

Try just adding twice as much water to your micro mix to see if the precipitates go back into solution, and see if they stay in solution the next day. If they disappeared then all is well, and just change the amount you dose to coincide with the amount of water you added. So if your original mix was 250 ml and you were going to dose 40ml, then if you added an extra 250ml to make the powders dissolve, you should change the dosing to 80ml.

If the precipitates do not dissolve then that means you had Case #2 and you should throw it away.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Thanks for the explanation,
well my micro mix is base on the EI tutorial, but i have put 2 time the dose of trace mix in the same amount of water advice in the tutorial. I have done that because like that I can just dose half of the recommended dosing !! ( 12,5 ml instead of 25 ml for each 20G of water). Maybe that why.
The precipitation are white in color and it's glue on the bottom of the bottle. If you shake very vigorously the bottle it's going out of the surface of the bottle in small pieces not in powder.
you can see small square of 0,5 cm2 flowing in the bottle after, i don't know if i made my self clear loool 
Well that's right about the acid in the micro mix, because in the all in one solution you have to add acid to be sure that PO4 will note react with iron and create a reaction of precipitation.
 I had totaly frogot that think, because I was doing macro and a micro solution, and now I do dry dosing , Only do a micro solution.
Do you think that this white precipitation can be because solution is too concentrated ? it's only 2x the dose.

Cheers master
Zanguli


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## ceg4048

Yes, it's definitely a possibility, but you still need to add more water to see if the flakes dissolve. Then you will know for certain.

Anyway, why not just save yourself the trouble and dry dose the micro mix as well? Why make your life so complicated?

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Ha I was just thinking that in fact I had always had this white precipitation in my micro mix even when I was dosing the amoount that in the EI tutorial !! maybe it's not a good quality ? don't know ! hehe 
well lets see when if I add again one liter of water.

thanks again


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

hooooo i din't read all your answer !!! yes it would be much better to dry dose it !!! 
what would be the amount for 20 G ??? 1/3 tea spoon or less ? Just need a guide line lol 
just to be sure ! when i dry dose my teaspoon are not flat filled I am just picking a spoon like i will do to put my sugar in the tea ! I just want to be consistent lol
is it possible to see a pic of you of a teaspoon with ferts in when you dose please just to see if I am not exaggerating lol 

thanks master


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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			 Even 1/4 teaspoon will be more than enough. In the EI Tutorial we show the numbers for a 20G and it is 1/16 teaspoon, but this is too small to measure so just use 1/4 teaspoon or less. You can even just pinch some powder between your fingers and add that. It doesn't really matter. That's why they are called "micro" nutrients, and that's why the dosing method is called The "Estimative" Index.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi yes i hav


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi yes latter in the afternoon I have done the math and I have seen 1/16 for the 20G and 1/5 for my 70 G.  But I was thinking its a bit lean !?? 

I prefer from far, dry dosing ! It s faster and easier. I like the estimative part loool


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## ceg4048

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Hi yes latter in the afternoon I have done the math and I have seen 1/16 for the 20G and 1/5 for my 70 G. But I was thinking its a bit lean !??


Those are the standard numbers, so if your flow and distribution are not good enough there might be a problem. In any case, if you want to add more there is no law against adding more. Add as much as you want. There is no penalty - except cost of buying more powder.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi members 

I am facing a CO2 issue on my tank. 
Since two weeks I have installed a up atomizer on my outlet, and I have set my JBL regulator that I have since a month at a working pressure of 2,5 to 3 bar. 
So my first problem is that when I want to add more CO2 I don't get a most of fine bubbles in my tank. But I get a mix of fine bubbles and big bubbles. So my level of CO2 is not good in the tank. And I start having my HC and my riccia melting !! And so an over all bad result in the tank. 
Is it due to my working pressure that is to high and so passing too fast in the ceramic ??
Should I put it on the inlet for a better dissolution, without causing problem for my bacterial fauna in the filter, and also will I have issue of CO2 building up in the filter ?? I don't know if I make it clear ?

Second problem is that my regulator is fluctuating from 2,7 bar to 2,9 bar ! Is it a problem !

So for now what I have done because I cannot reach the good concentration of CO2 for the light I have. I have switch of one of the bulb so I have only 36w for 86L, and I have set my light a bit higher that before. Is this the good reaction before I find a solution ? 

Hope that I will have a answer soon. 
Thank you for your time, and your advices. 

Regards


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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			   It's good that you've reduced the light until you solved the problem. I've not used the Up so I can't tell with any certainty what the problem might be but search the forum using "atomizer" and see if there are others who have had the same difficulty. Could there be clogging or dirt? Maybe show a picture of the atomizer in action.

You can always port gas into the filter inlet. there is never a problem since bacteria like CO2 as well.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Well I have try to put it on the inlet but co2 is building up in the filter and every 5 min it get out in big bubbles. So I went back to the last set up with spray bar and a with a ceramic diffuser on the front glass. It very ugly but I know it works ! 

Do you think that my up atomizer have a problem since the factory or it is my working pressure that is too high ??

Cheers


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive thanks for your answer. 
I a bit disappointed because I have almost lost all my HC and my riccia. But I know they will grow back with the decision of going back to the last set up. 
The atomizer is new ! 2 weeks or 3. So I don't think that there is a clogging problem. 

Know I am even thinking of set back my lily pipe because the set up that I have know is really ugly. It the problem is that it is not efficient as the spray bar is !!

Regards Clive 
Zanguli


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi 
I am still battling with a unstable CO2 now since 3 days it s ok ! I have stabilize the CO2. But I went back with my last set up ( Lilly pipe on the left back corner pointing to the left front corner) but it is not as efficient as the spray bar is. So today I will put again the spray bar. My only problem is that my up aqua in line atomizer is not working. So I have to put my ceramic diffuser in the front glass. It s really ugly haha. So my question is :

Should I put it the more possible at the bottom of the glass ? Even burry it like that the ceramic is at the same level of the substrate ? Or should I put it 10 cm above the substrate ? 

Second one 
Since I have co2 related problem I have turn off one of the 36 w bulb and raise the light at 45 cm. 
do you think I have enough light with only 36 w at 45 cm from the water for a 23 G tank ?

For know I have 
Cryp mi oya
Cryp undulata 
Cryp wendtii green 
Microsorum sp narow
Mosses
Rotala sp green 

Do you think I should go back to the spray bar or keep the lily pipe ? 

Clive please need your help !! 

Cheers guys thank you


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## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
			  Sorry to hear you are still having problems. I was too lazy to read  the previous post and I can't remember if you have tried porting the gas directly into the filter inlet. Did you try that yet? Try mounting the diffuser as low to the bottom as possible on the back wall. This gives more time for the bubbles to dissolve  as they rise and the spraybar will push the water across. I never worry about having not enough light. That actually never happens unless you do a blackout for a week. I always worry about having too much light.

Is it possible your filter isn't strong enough? I can't remember what size filter you are using.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive 
Don't be sorry mate ! At
Least I know what is the problem ! 
Yes I have tried to put it on the inlet. But the problem was that gaz was building up in the filter and every 5 min a got a big stream of big bubbles and with this solution I don't reach a good concentration. 
For the diffuser at the back I have tried it already and most of the bubbles were not push by the spray bar ! That,s why I have put it on the front. 

I am starting to think that my filter is not enough powerful ! It a fluval 305 rate 900L/H on the paper so it should be 600 L/H in reality and my tank is 80 L. 

So what should I do is put back the spray bar, diffuser on the front glass down to the substrate and leave the CO2 as it is now 3 bps. Light 36 w at 45 cm from the water surface. 
 And wait and see ???? 
In fact I don't really have the choice!!! 

Hope that my cryp will not melt !! I know that they will grow again if they melt when the conditions will be goo for them. 

Again thanks for your advices !! I really appreciate that you take time for me !!

Cheers


----------



## ceg4048

zanguli,
		 How much and what kind of media is inside the filter? You can get better flow if you remove the ceramic media and just use light foam. If you can get a bigger filter or Koralia that will definitely help. When you had the gas buildup problem were you using a diffuser next to the filter inlet?

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive 
In my filter I have first 
- foam light one ( fluval that came with de filter)
- 1 L Eheim Mec
- +/- 1 L bio balls like bio rio 
+/- 1 L ceramic noodles 
Do you think these media can reduce flow more that light foam. 

When I putted the device on the inlet, it was the more far away from the filter. 

I have a small internal pump 400 L/h but with the spray bar that 4/5 th of the tank where can I place it ? I'll take a pic of the set up when I ll be back home 

Thanks for your answer. 
Cheers


----------



## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
			   Mate yeah, you can remove all of that ceramic. The noodles are the worst for flow because their job is specifically to reduce the flow which helps to allow the large heavier particles to settle out of solution. Flow is more important right now so I would just slowly replace the media with more of the same foam.

Place the pump at the 5th/5th where the spraybar ends I reckon. I really need to see a picture to be clear mate. Call your sister and borrow her camera!

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi 
So I have follow your advice, and I took out 1 L of Eheim Mec. Next one will be the ceramic noodles. How many time should I wait between each replacement ? 2 weeks ? I can already see a difference in the flow with the Eheim out !!! 
Yesterday a give the tank a good clean and put back the spray bar and the co 2 on front glass. Now again I can tell, with all my convincing that spray bar is from far the best for a good flow. I will put you some pic. 
I notice a problem with my spray bar. The bar is covering the 4/5th of the tank, from left to right. But on the front glass I can clearly see that it is the 2/3rd from right to left that have the more flow velocity. Leaving the the 1/3rd right part with a mediocre flow. I don't know if I made my self clear haha. That's why on the pic you can see that the co2 diffuser is more on the left side than in the middle. But at least I can see that most of the co2 bubbles are being dissolved. 
So what I will do is leaving the set up like that and order an other up in line. 
Here is a pic of the set up, sorry for the quality 








Thanks again for you help that's great having some one like you helping me. 

Cheers


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba




----------



## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
				It's just as I mentioned. I would place the pump in that gap on the right side of the picture where the spraybar ends. Put it at the same level. That will help to even out the flow and will help to force the water to assume the shape that we are looking for. That's always the default position. You may find for this tank that you need to change it, but that's the best starting point.

I thought you might have had fish in the tank so that's why I said to gradually remove media. If there are no fish the remove as much media as you want straight away!

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Ha I forgot to ask two things. 
First I have an algae that is brown and covering all the leaves. It's kind of GDA but thinner and brown here is a pic. 



You can see it on the Microsorum leaves. So what is it please. It s making the tank ugly like hell. Every thing is brown in there. And if you rub it it is not going strait away, you need to a good rub to take it off. 

Ok my second question is about the substrate. I have only 9 L of aqua soil in there. But it is not enough. The plants Cannot settle in that small layer of substrate. If you only touch or pass to fast with the sponge near stem plant they up roots. With the big grain size of the AS I have had a lot of problem to settle HC also. 
So I wanted to put some Congo river sand. I will pass it through a fine mosquito net to get only nice grain. 
What is the size of the layer I should top up, to be sure that the sand will not mix with the AS. In from I can add 5-7 cm of Congo sand, and at the back add a bit more to have a nice slop. 
Do you think this is ok mate ? 

Cheers 
Thanks again


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Yes my two tank are fish less, because I want first to learn as much as I can about plants !!!  I think in one year also I will put fish. But I am happy with only plants !!!!

Mate the think that is weird, is that the part of the tank that have the best flow is where there is the empty gap (no spray bar). So I don't really know how I can improve flow on the left part because there is the spray bar there. 

Ok as soon as I go back home after work ( yes we don't do the English week here lol, we even work on Sundays. ) I take out all the ceramic and balls media from the filter. Haha that's a good news. 

Cheers mate


----------



## ceg4048

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> You can see it on the Microsorum leaves. So what is it please. It s making the tank ugly like hell. Every thing is brown in there. And if you rub it it is not going strait away, you need to a good rub to take it off.


Hi Zanguli,
	 If it comes off when you rub then this is just diatomic algae which sometimes happens on newly setup tanks, especially if the lighting is too high and if the flow/CO2 is not good. I think you had this before on another tank (or was I only dreaming? There are so many tanks with problems) Anyway, try a 3 day blackout. Now that you have fixed the flow and CO2 hopefully it won't com back. Do lots of water changes.



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> the think that is weird, is that the part of the tank that have the best flow is where there is the empty gap (no spray bar). So I don't really know how I can improve flow on the left part because there is the spray bar there.


We cannot predict how flow patterns will happen in the tank. Place the powerhead at the gap on the right. Then make another assessment. Fluids do not behave as we think they should. They follow their own very specific rules.



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> So I wanted to put some Congo river sand. I will pass it through a fine mosquito net to get only nice grain. What is the size of the layer I should top up, to be sure that the sand will not mix with the AS. In from I can add 5-7 cm of Congo sand, and at the back add a bit more to have a nice slop. Do you think this is ok mate ?


The smaller size sand, which is also heavier, will always fall through to the bottom, so it would be better to just remove the AS and add your sand and then replace AS on top of the sand (I'm assuming the sand is smaller than the AS). If you want to keep the slop from collapsing and getting flat, then you must insert retaining walls across the length of the tank at various locations. You can use any material to build the walls such as plastic plate or rocks. You can add as much sand as you want, but if you don't want to see the sand under the AS then insert another retaining wall just a few centimeters from the front glass and then fill that narrow gap with AS so it appears that everything is AS. The same story for the sides if that's important to you.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi
So I have done the changes
I have place a coralia 1600 L/H, and wow flow now is very good !! A bit unbalance but that is ok. Unbalance because now the power head is stronger than the filter. But when I will order the new up aqua in line, I will order two nano coralia 900 L/h and put one one the left and one on the right, and place the spray bar in the middle this will be perfect. 
Now I just need to find some foam to take out all the ceramic in my filter. I ll ask a friend of mine who use to have a big sump in his tank, and now he use 4x FX 5 on his tank. 

Just a question if flow have too much velocity, it will not cause problem for the uptake of nutrient and CO2? Because water is passing too fast trough the membrane that surround the leave ? Or I am just dreaming lol  ?

For the sand I will just remove all the AS and put Congo river sand. It have a nice brown/yellow color. 
Because I have had problem with HC and glosso with the big size of AS grain. 
Or is it possible by drying back the AS like that I can crush it or pass it trough a net to have smaller grain ? 

Here is a pic of the set up. Sorry for the quality but at lest you can see that the coralia is well place. At the same height and pointing in the same direction of the spray bar. 
now with the new set up I can clearly see that the bubble of CO2 can't escape the whirlpool of flow. That's nice





Take care 

Cheers


----------



## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
			   Mate, that looks much better, although the picture is upside down. No worries, I just pointed my head at the ground.

Yes, you are right. At some point the flow velocity will be too high and this will do damage to the leaf. You don't want the leaf to look like the national flag on a pole during a storm. That would be too much. The idea is to see the leaves gently rocking.

Also, you really don't need special FX5 filter media. Just go the supermarket and get foam pot scrubbers or cleaning sponge and then chop them up in smaller pieces, like maybe 1 centimeter cubes. Do they have anything like this in Kinshasa supermarkets? Bacteria really do not care what kind of neighborhood they live in!









Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Thanks mate
Yes I can find these without any problem here in Kinshasa. 
So I just cut it in small part of 1 cm and put it in the filter ? I don't need to put it in a net or some thing like that ? 
I have to rescape the tank soon I am just waiting for new plants to arrive. I had order some crypts. Trying to have two low maintenance tank. I know I am bit lazy ahahha 

And for the pic I don't understand why it s upside down because on my iPhone it s on the good position. 

Mate thank you very much for all the advices you are giving me. 
Hope one day I can help with something 


Cheers


----------



## ceg4048

Yeah mate, help me to not go crazy up here! Send me some hot weather. It was snowing here two days ago!

You can put the chopped up scrubbers in a net if that makes it easier to handle. It really doesn't matter.

I think maybe the picture orientation depends on which way you are holding the phone.

Take some pictures of the supermarket with your iphone. I've never seen the inside of a Congolese supermarket...would be interesting to see what kind of products are there.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Here is some hot weather  sorry that s the only thing I can do !! Hahaha don't be jealous lol 



That was 3 days ago. But that s hot lol 

I ll take a pic if the supermarket. 
I have add some glosso and some ludwigia arcuata in the tank to see if with the new set up they will have enough co2 and flow. As we have a lot of them growing in a pond i can make an experience. 

Cheers


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi
Today I am receiving my up aqua (hope this one will not be faulty )
I am also receiving a second coralia nano 900L for better flow. So there will be two pump one on the left and one the right, and the spray bar in the middle. 
I'll take a pic of the set up when it's done. 
Clive you have told me that if my glosso or my HC is growing up ward it's because flow is not adequate. I have planted last week some glosso just under the co2 diffuser and where the flow is the strongest but its still growing upward. 
I will also put a pic of ludwigia arcuata that is growing strangely.aybe you can told me why ?? 

Cheers and tonight I ll post everything


----------



## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
				Prune the HC and the new leaves should come in much more compact. The effects of the hormone lasts long. After a while, growth will be more compact.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hello
Well I have received the up aqua and the new pump. 
I have put everything. 
First regarding the up aqua (the new one) to reach a good concentration I need to crank up the CO2 and I still have big bubbles, but a bit less. 
But I didn't had the time to test it because since yesterday noon I ran out of CO2. I put it back tonight. Lights are off since than. 

I don't really understand why I got this bubbles. Tomorrow I will make more test. 
Just for the info the atomizer is on the outlet at 15 cm from the filter. 

About the trimming on the HC, is it also working on the Glosso ? 
Can you explain me deeper the effect of the hormones on growth please. 

Regards


----------



## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
				 Yes the same trick works with Glosso. When you cut the stem the new leaves grow which better adapted to a water environment, so they can handle the stress better.

Hormones work by bonding to certain target proteins in the cell which changes the shape of the protein and so changes the way that the protein behaves. Many hormones enter the cells and combine with proteins to directly modify genetic instructions. There are a lot of instructions that can be given. Normally the instructions change to cause the production of a different type of enzyme or protein. The type of activity change in the plant is normally determined by the concentration of the hormone that is present. So the same hormone can cause different effects if the plant produces different quantities of hormone.

Ethylene is the only gas plant hormone.When secreted internally by plants at certain concentration levels it can cause fruit to ripen, for example. Other concentration levels can program some cells to die.

Plants are always producing ethylene, and the concentration buildup will vary to accomplish different goals. When the plant is flooded, if this gas does not diffuse away and escape from the plants as easily as it would when the plant was was in air then the concentration of the gas builds and this triggers the genetic reprogramming to elongate the stem.

Once the stem elongates it cannot reverse this to shrink the long stem. So if you cut the stem then new growth may be more compact depending on how much ethylene you managed t pull away with better flow. The new stems may have been still programed to elongate. So this is not a magic trick. When the flow/CO2 is improved, and when the last of the high hormone levels have dissipated, then normal stem length programming will resume.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi
Aaaah that's the kind of explanation I love, because you understand the "why". 
Thanks for taking the time to explain me. 
Now with I knowing that, I am wondering some thing. 
When you receive new plants that are grown emerge HC for example, you plant it in your tank flooded. You should trim it right away or you have to wait for a week or (for the roots to start settle)??? 
Basically the effect of hormones is the "same" for all aquatic macrophite ? Sp it will occurred the same thing with all of them ? 
For example I have received some eustralis stelatta should I trim it ? Same with ludwigia inclinata ?
For the crypts that are grown emerge should you plant it and cut all the leaves or I wait for the first submerge leave to appear than trim all the rest of leaves. 
I know that this all noob question but with the explanation you give me about hormone and theirs effect on enzyme and protein I start to doubt a bit (every day is a learning day on ukaps that's why I love it). Maybe with the new scape and new set up of the (now the flow is perfect hope so) flow and distribution will be enough strong to evacuate the excess of gaz ? 

I need another advice, I have receives also some staugoryne repens emerge form, what I have done it is cleaning each stem, take out the leaves at the base of the stem leaving 3 pairs of leaves, and I have plant it in the way that the first pair of leaves touch the substrate. Is it the good way ? 
I know that the plants I have mention are very CO2 sensitive so this time I will try to not make mistakes with it lol. 

Mate thanks you re a mine of information 

Cheers


----------



## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
				 Well when you Flood HC it has a tendency to start melting unless the CO2 is excellent, so if you trim it then you run the risk of reducing your margin of error. Probably the best thing to do is to separate the bunch and plant the individual stems, but that is so time consuming and tedious that almost no one does that. I've only seen Mark Evans and maybe one or two other people with that level of patience. When the stems are separated like that there is better flow and CO2 for each stem. The next best thing is to divide the bunch into very small groups. Dry starting of course gives you a chance to grow more mass and to grow deeper roots, but again, most people are too impatient, and so they want to flood the tank immediately.

As I mentioned before, it's really not that big of a deal. If the HC is growing and staying green, then just leave it alone. When the stem grow vertically, then cut them and replant the stems somewhere else....if you have the patience. With time, and assuming you have fixed your flow/CO2, the plant settles and starts to grow more compact. HC needs to be trimmed regularly anyway.

The staugoryne can be planted that way as well. Just separate and plant individual stems. I don't think it even matters if you pull the bottom leaves off because that will make it less able to stay rooted for a while. Burying the stem with some leaves underneath might help to keep it in place. Just try different approaches ad see ho it works. You can also tie the staugoryne to rocks or wood, just like you would with moss and Anubias. They do fine with the roots exposed on hardscape.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hello master lol
Thanks again for the explanation. Now I know how to proceed. 
Or you do a dry start and be patient for two month (like George have been) or you  flood your tank and have the perfect flow, distribution and just cross finger lol. 
So I think I am on the good track, I have received 3 pots of HC and I have cut each pot in 6 portion hope that will enough small. There is just one pot that I have cut in 4 portion. 
Here is a pic of 1/4 pots of HC 2 days after flooded. Now it's 4 days and they are pearling all day long. U know that pearling is not a relevant sign but I cross finger and will see if its ok during the next 3 weeks lol. 
That's the only shot I will put for now because I am not satisfy of the result for now but I am sure that when all the cryp the staugoryne and the HC will be settle it will nice. I will start a journal in a month. 




That's a good thing what you are telling me about the staugoryne growing on hardscape  didn't knew that. And it s giving me idea for the next scape. Even if I miss the shot with it in this scape, because that plant is a bit tricky I have a base in our pond. 

Well mate thanks again we keep in touch 

Cheers


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

I totally forgot to tell something important (for me), the new atomizer is working well. After 5 days running I am only getting small amount of big bubble and a nice mist. 
Now my Ph (initial ph 7,3 water rest for a night) is 5,82 (read with Hanna ph meter calibration at two point). I know that I have good result at 5,75 so I am in the good track. 

I wanted to buy a PAR netter to start better management of light, but it's a bit expensive. What do you think of that product. Is it a good idea or eyes and observation is sufficient ?


----------



## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			Well, PAR meters are very expensive, and there are so few people that buy them that there is not much available on the used market (although in an ebay world that can change overnight). Then, once you have it, you take a bunch of measurements, figure out what you want to do with your lighting....and then you don't use it for a while.

The thing is, that once you figure out flow and CO2 you can basically have as much light as you want so the PAR meter becomes almost academic. I would not suggest that you get one mate, unless money is no object. There are some charts available which can give you a good estimate of your PAR values. I'll look for a thread I remember with one of those charts posted and get back to you.

Glad the Atomizer is working for you. I think that's a good pH drop, and with the flow improvements this should start looking good. Remember to do large and frequent water changes!

Cheers,


----------



## jart

ceg4048 said:


> Hi Zanguli,
> Yes, any light you can see with your own eyes is good for planted tank.
> 
> Cheers,


 
I would like to ask what you consider to be the basis for this statement. Is this based on your personal experience, or perhaps one of the PAR charts?
As many of us know, perhaps only 10 years ago, to grow HC or L. glandulosa, you *needed* > 3 wpg of light.
Now that "high light myth" has been somewhat dispelled. I say "somewhat" since I can sign on to many aquarium forums and there doesn't appear to be any readily accessible information (ie a primer or sticky) for beginners which spells this out.

I have read ceg4048's EI summary here. I also make a point to search out his thread posts so I can learn more. Especially about CO2 and light. Fantastic information.
I have also read a few threads on TBR that I can post here (please let me know if this is permitted on this forum) that discuss success with "good" CO2 and relatively low light.
Also the forum member Hoppy has contributed greatly to this topic on TPT forum.

Does anyone know of another good summary article dispelling the need for high lighting? I would like to read it myself, as well as refer others to it.
I hope this is not a thread hijack, but figured this discussion might be ok, since we are in the lighting subforum. I like your tank, OP 
Regards.


----------



## ceg4048

I'd forgotten to get the chart I promised for Zanguli. Thanks for the reminder.
Zanguli, here is the PAR chart produced by Hoppy in the PTF forum discussion  PAR vs Distance, T5, T12, PC - New Chart Pay close attention to plantbrain's posts in that thread.
The numbers are generic and so it doesn't really matter too much what brand of bulb you have, the chart is a very useful guide, but of course cannot take into account ambient light and so forth.







jart said:


> I would like to ask what you consider to be the basis for this statement. Is this based on your personal experience, or perhaps one of the PAR charts? As many of us know, perhaps only 10 years ago, to grow HC or L. glandulosa, you *needed* > 3 wpg of light. Now that "high light myth" has been somewhat dispelled. I say "somewhat" since I can sign on to many aquarium forums and there doesn't appear to be any readily accessible information (ie a primer or sticky) for beginners which spells this out.


It's been a combination of experience, measurements, as well as the study of plant physiology that has led to the conclusion. As it turns out, the so-called high light plants are actually high CO2 plants, so they require more close attention to CO2 and flow/distribution than light. If you use more light the plant (any plant) simply grows faster, but then in order to be healthy when growing faster they also need to uptake nutrients and CO2 faster. This is often where "high-light" plants fall on their faces, because they are usually not very good CO2 feeders. So when the hobbyists concentrates on throwing lots of light at these plants while being inattentive to the other things that plants need to be healthy the result is poor health, which leads to algae and other symptoms.

Therefore, if one wishes to grow "high-light" plants then one should take a "holistic" approach to plant husbandry instead of dissecting plant health into bits and pieces and exclusively focusing only on individual aspects.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi master 
I will have a close look to the thread and to Tom s comments and also to the chart. When I have a bit of time. 
Thanks for taking the time to find this for me. 
Just a question before I read. My Dynax 36W are place in AHS power compact or in OTHER power compact ? 
I don't know if you can answer me lol. 
Cheers


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi jart
Don't worry it a not a hijack lol. 
Well from my small experience (planted tank since a year now ) you can grow most of the plants with low light ! And
I would suggest you to have a low light for now (unless you have good skills and know all the CO2 and flow skills also)
Working with high light is very tricky,
If you make any small mistake you are gone for algae, plants melting etc ... I have lost a lot of plants in this tank because I wanted to put 72 W over a 22G tank, just because I liked the bright light and just because I was thinking that a could manage a stronger light !!! And BIIIIIMM wrong idea. Now I have 36 w and this is ok. 
So my advice would be put low light, be patient and always control your CO2 !!
For a nice summary I can't help you. But just go through the forum and search as many info as you can. 
A good idea would be to read journals, because there you can see how people manage their problems. And you'll certainly find more info in journals than in the specific discussion of the forum. 

Cheers mate and welcome to that wonderful community


----------



## ceg4048

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Just a question before I read. My Dynax 36W are place in AHS power compact or in OTHER power compact ?


Hi Zanguli,
	Actually I have no idea what this brand of light looks like. The AHS is a specific brand of bulb. I forget what the initials stand for but the company's name is AH Supply. I don't know who makes their bulb. It could easily be a re-branded bulb from Osram, GE or Sylvania and it may even have more to do with the specification of their ballast, rather than anything to do with the bulb itself.

If your bulb is a Power Compact and looks like either of the upper two with the glass folded then it is an "other PC". The connectors come in so many different types. There are even some with screw in connectors, but generally, the folded glass is what determines whether it's a PC.

If it looks like a regular single long tube like the two on the bottom then it is just a T5HO:





Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi mate how are you ? 
Just a question I used to turn on the CO2 5 hours before lights but since a week I decided to turn it on two hours before lights on. But when lights turn on the DC is deep green. But I know that the DC gives you the statement of your tank two hours ago. 
The ph reading is good 6,6 before co2 on and drop to 5,65 at the moment lights the on (lowest ph is 5,56). So I assume that my CO 2 is good when lights turn on !??? 

An other question, I know the EI is estimative, but it s not a bad thing to dose one day 1/3 of KNO3 and the other day you dose 1/2 because you were in the hurry. Than return back to 1/3 etc.... ? 
I was thinking that this is not a problem because I always dose more than what I need. But I start to think of it, and you that when someone's brain start thinking like this must find an answer lol.  


I wanted also to know I have set up the tank since 3,5 weeks now and my light is on for 6 hours and at 30 cm from the water surface. When do you think I could lower the light ? I will proceed to lower it 5 cm every 10 days until I reach 10 cm. do you think it's ok ?

I don't know how I can tell you thanks for all the advices you are giving me 

Ha by the way the staurogyne is doing good I will start trimming it in a week or so. 

Well mate cheers


----------



## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
				Glad that things have improved. It's really difficult to tell exactly what's happening with the DC and that's why the pH reading is a better indicator. Just remember that you can also be fooled if there are any other acidic sources (remember the battery acid issue?). Just to make sure that the 5/65 reading is actually due to the CO2 only do the following check:

Each time you take the pH reading, take a sample of the water out and  put it in a cup or bottle or other vessel. Shake it violently for a few minutes and allow the cup to sit for 1/2 hour or so. What this does is it drives off the CO2 from the water sample. Then take the pH reading of that sample. This tells you what the pH of the water is with only a minimum of dissolved CO2. Hopefully, the two pH readings when you drive off the CO2 will be the same. Then this tells you that the 5.65 is due only to CO2. If the sample pH reading at lights on with CO2 driven off is lower that the previous sample with CO2 driven off then this tells you that there is some other acid being produced in the tank at lights on.

In any case, the plants will tell you the truth so if you start to see hair, BBA, GSA or other CO2 related faults then you'll know it was a bad idea. Hope that explanation makes sense...if not, tell me and I will try to clarify.




zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> I wanted also to know I have set up the tank since 3,5 weeks now and my light is on for 6 hours and at 30 cm from the water surface. When do you think I could lower the light ? I will proceed to lower it 5 cm every 10 days until I reach 10 cm. do you think it's ok ?


Yes, this sounds like a good plan to me. Remember though, it doesn't really matter what I think. The tank will tell you immediately if it's not a good idea!




zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> but it s not a bad thing to dose one day 1/3 of KNO3 and the other day you dose 1/2 because you were in the hurry. Than return back to 1/3 etc.... ?


Sure, it doesn't really matter all that much. As long as the right amount of powder gets added eventually it should not make a difference.

Cheers,


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive,
how are you doing ? Here i am fine, we are entering in the dry season, so that means cloudy weather but with no rain and no sun for 4,5 month. we will have dusty days now lol, but a least it will be 24 C° and not 40 so that's cool.

well I have done the ph readings yesterday for the two tanks and tap water (20 G and 73 G).
tap water : before rest 6,23 rest for the night Ph 7,25
20 G : (I have increase a bit the CO2 since 2 days)  Ph at light on 5,24 and when water rest over night I read Ph 7,27 So i assume that there is minimum production of acidic by an			   other factor than CO2.

73 G : (CO2 also increased) Ph lights on 5,25 and when water rest over night the reading is Ph 6,44 ! So in that tank there is some acidic produce by plant or tannin leaching from the wood or some other things.

So doing the test was a good idea now i know. But i ll do again the test in a week to see if it's the same.
Now that we know that should I increase a bit CO2 on the 73G to reach Ph 4,8 or I stay at 5,25 (but I think that a drop of 1,25 ph will not be enough with my very soft water).

An other question mate :
I am a bit lost with dosing MgSO4 and CaSO4. I dose them in my tank because tap water is very very soft so I assume that there is very very low (or none) level of Ca and Mg in there. So here is my dosing

73 G : KNO3 --> 1 tsp (consistent spoon)
		   KH2Po4 -> 1/3 tsp
		   MgSO4 --> 3/4 tsp
		   CaSO4 --> 1/2 tsp
TRACE MIX --> 1/3 tsp

Do you think I am ok with this ?

20 G : KNO3 --> 1/3 tsp
		   KH2Po4 -> 1/8 tsp
		   MgSO4 -> 1/4 tsp
			CaSO4 -> less than 1/4 tsp

TRACE MIX --> 1/8 tsp

I think that my dosing regime is ok, but I just would like to have a confirmation.

I have a small project building in my head, don't know when i will start it but I think it will be a nice project and an interesting one for ukaps members. I will do a 15 G tank with plants from Congo only ! as my friend and I have found different species that do well i think it will be a good experimenting !!

well man thanks again !!
I think we should change the title of this thread cause now we are far from the Dymax lights, and there nice infos on this topic lol.

regards


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

After being on petaphile calculator (I know that tom have help in building this calculator) I start thinking that I am too lean on Mg an Ca ?!!
for the 70 G its saying that I have to put 3X per week 13 g of MgSO4 and 15 g of CaSO4
for the 20 G it says 4 g of Mg and 5 g of Ca.

That's much more than I dose now, i am a bit confuse .
what is you thought about the last two post master ?

cheers


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## ceg4048

Hi zanguli,
			   For the 73G you can add more CO2 but really you need to think about the fish, because they will have to make an adjustment too. If you are not having CO2 related faults right now then there is no reason to stress the fish. As the plants grow in and acquire more mass then things might become a bit more complicated and you might start to see some problems where only an injection rate will solve the problem. CO2 is like a narcotic for plants. The more they get, the more they need. So if the CO2 falters and if they were on a high CO2 diet then they will suffer more. If there are no fish in the tank and if you want to maximize growth rates then sure, push the injection rate as far as you want, but if you aren't having any problems then I would leave it alone.

As far as Ca and Mg, this is a very similar situation. If you aren't having any problems such as yellowing of the leaves, then there really is no need to change the dosing. I forget where I have explained this before but the plants gather Ca and Mg and the levels in the leaf continues to increase daily because they do not exit the leaf. NPK and carbon go in and out of the leaves, but trace elements are actually toxic metals so they require special handling by the plant. The plant does not want to move trace metals around too much because it becomes expensive, so they remain in the leaf. So you only need small amounts of trace metals to help new leaves. Go ahead and try the amounts that are shown in the calculator. Try this for about 3 weeks and document with photographs and notes the difference. If you cannot see much difference between the old dosing and the new dosing then forget about the higher number and return to the original dosing. There is no point in adding more if there is little benefit because that just costs more money. You are much more likely to see improvement by adding more NPK. Plants need 100X more Nitrogen than they need Calcium. I really wouldn't worry too much about trace elements.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive 
my two tanks are fish less, i am a bit plant addictive since less than a year lol. So my goal is to understand the best i can plants and to maximize growth rate. Than maybe next year i will start plants and fish. I have been keeping fish since I have 10 years old (now i have 27) so I was a bit tired of discus etc.... I love plants and i prefer to take care of plants than fish haha.
So now you know that my only focus is plants ! 

So what i have done is push a bit the CO2 of the 70G at Ph 4,84 lets see. i have some very small CO2 issues like very few hair algae and some crypt melt but very few !! i am checking flow everyday (try to improve it the best i can ) and this week end I will build a reactor for my FX5 for better distribution.

I will try your advice raise the Mg and Ca dosing for 3 weeks.
So here will be the dosing for the next three weeks and I will see if i get better results.

KNO3 --> 1 tsp (5,5 G)
KH2Po4 -->1/3 tsp (1,2 G)
MgSo4 --> 2 tsp (10 G) it use to be 3/4 tsp
CaSo4 --> 1 consistent tsp it use to be 1/2 tsp
I will monitor all this and see if there is improvement. 
In fact now that your are telling me about yellowing of plants. I do have yellowing of new leaves and curling down of the tips and border of the new leaves. I have checked for yellowing of older leaves but I can't see none ! this is happening for Ludwigia Inclinata var cuba and for P. stelatta and only yellowing for the S. Porto Velho. I have noticed that only now because before I used to have only fern and anubias in that tank so it took time to see a change.
here is a pic of the L inclinata (it's in the tank since 3,5 weeks now so the older leave you can see are emerge leaves. 
Sorry for the orientation of the pic again but I forgot I have to take pic HORIZONTALLY !!!!!!! 

let me know

cheers man


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## zanguli-ya-zamba




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## ceg4048

Hi mate,
			 The curling is most likely CO2 related. You should cut off all the emmersed leaves to give the new leaves more room the breathe.

I don't see in your dosing list any other trace metals such as Iron. The yellowing could be from lack of Fe, or even lack of Manganese (Mn) if you are not dosing these.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive
I am sorry on the last post I was focus on macros. but if you see the post n°81 first post of page 5 there is the info.
I do dose a dry Trance mix from a french web site (aquascape boutique). I dose like this:
70 G --> trace mix 1/3 tsp
20 G --> trace mix 1/8 tsp
I have already asked the for the composition of their mix but they don't want to give it. I told them i need to know for my EI dosing, and they have answer me that there is no problem I will reach the right amount needed for EI with this trace mix. The guy there is using pps pro method and he use the same mix.
So I think the trace mix is ok (hope so).
Plus i am dosing 45 drops of ECA from ADA (bottle says to dose 25 drops)
it could be a N defficiency a start since a week or so to see my white substrate becoming a bit brown ( BGA ??) that would also explain the yellowing !?

So the curling could be a CO2 deficiency ?? i will cut all emmersed leaves for better flow and distribution in there !!
well now that my CO2 is crank at Ph 4,84 and that I have raised the dosing lets see in three weeks how they will react about all these changes.

hope that I will solve these problems.

cheers mate


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## ceg4048

Yeah, normally any type of structural fault is caused by poor CO2. Regarding the color, sometimes it's hard to judge because you are comparing the color of the submersed leaves with the color of the emmersed leaves, which you shouldn't do because they are totally different. The lighter color may be the normal color when the plant is submerged, but adding more nutrients and more CO2 will not cause any issues. So lets see what happens...

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi master 
I was really thinking about what you were saying on an iron or manganese deficiency  . So when i came back home I decided to turn off the filters and pump to have a better view of plants from the top. What I have noticed is that all my plants are very yellow and very pale. when I looked to the P. stelatta it was CLEAR that it should be a micro deficiency.
I will try to take a pic to be sure. So I have been thinking that maybe my trace mix is maybe no longer good !!!! I have it since July 2012 and I think I store it the wrong way !!!
I simply left it in a plastic bag with a zip on it. So I took the fresh trace mix I received 3 weeks ago to compare color and texture. It appear that my old one is more wet color is yellower than the new one and it's even hard to see the small blue & green particles that are in the mix !! It is clear that you can see a difference between the two !
So do you think that the old one is ruin ??? 
How do I have to store my dry salts please.

I'll take a pic tonight.

cheers Clive


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## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
			   It really shouldn't matter how you store them. They last forever and the only thing that can change them is if they react with some other chemical and change to something else. There could be some issue with the chelation of components like Iron or Manganese that would render them useless if the got wet, or, it could even be that they were not chelated at all and combined with other substances. Even so, I would more likely worry about whether you got what you thought you had paid for. It's best to store dry salts in a dry place. That's really all you have to do.

Without knowing what the contents of your mix is from the supplier it's really hard to say. I have no idea what the blue and green particles are or whether they are even relevant. I've never had such a colorful trace mix. It was either dull brown or a dull green. Maybe have a chat with one of our sponsors to see if they can ship to Congo, or maybe look around for some other French vendor who will ship to you.

Maybe you told me before, but can you list the website you bought from? Maybe I can use google translate to check the ingredients.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi Clive,
that's a good news that my trace mix can last forever !! but i will try to dose for three weeks with the fresh mix to see if there is a change !! 
even if I give you the web site you wont find no info on my trace mix because they don't put the ingredient on the web site and they don't want to give it to me ! 
www.*aquascape*-*boutique*.fr.


ceg4048 said:


> Hi Zanguli,
> There could be some issue with the chelation of components like Iron or Manganese that would render them useless if the got wet, or, it could even be that they were not chelated at all and combined with other substances.,


Do you think that that could be my case for Iron and manganese (wet) ?


I would like to buy from our sponsor (EI Salts specialist) but they don't ship outside of EU so i don't know ! maybe I should just passe the order and they ship to belgium and than a belgium/congolese transporter make the transfer. they will not know that it's for outside of EU.

cheers mate


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## ceg4048

Hi Zanguli,
				Well I checked the website. Unless I made a mistake, I found the link to the trace mix here=> TRACE MIX - 100g - AQUASCAPE, aquaristic online shop you can even select it in English.

If that is the right one, well the ingredients are right there at the top=> Chelated trace mix...Analysis: Fe 8.2% ; Mn 1.82% ; Zn 1.16% ; B 1.05% ; Cu 0.23% ; Mo 0.15%

So this is fine, I don't see a problem with it at all, except the color in the photo doesn't have any blue/green grains as far as I can see, but it's a very small photo.

Like all trace mixes, this one is mostly Fe, so there really should not be a problem. There are so many variations of things that can go wrong, but at least we know now, if that link is the correct one, that the Fe  and Mn are probably chelated, but if it got wet and turned more brown then that might indicate Iron rust or oxidation of one of the other metals. Who knows what it got wet with, or if it was water, what was in the water? It's really difficult to say precisely.

In any case, just add more of the new trace mix for now and see if things improve.

Cheers,


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi mate 
Yes that's the good link ! But the pic is not the good dry salt. I ll put a pic of it to night ! 

Thanks cheers


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## kathy82

I think 1x 36w bulb should be enough.


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