# Algae on Christmas Moss



## CalRed (24 Jan 2021)

Can anyone help me identify this algae on my Christmas moss and what to do next?
Its on no other plants and emerged in the last fortnight. Ive just started EI dosing 3 days ago on my high tech 90l.
Thank you


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## thesorcerous (25 Jan 2021)

Someone who knows more than me may be able to confirm, but it looks a lot like the algae in my tank which I think is Rhizoclonium. I am currently having a lot of problems removing it. Like you, it started on a moss culture. I try to physically remove as much as I can as often as I can.

Rob


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## GHNelson (25 Jan 2021)

Rhizoclonium 

 

 

 *Description*Strands of fine green or brownish threads                which are soft and slimy.*Cause*Low CO2 and poor water flow. Low nutrient                levels. General lack of maintenance.*Removal*Increase CO2 levels and check nutrient dosing.                Give the tank a good cleaning. Overdosing Excel, EasyCarbo or                TNC Carbon should also clear it. Amano shrimp will eat it.


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## CalRed (26 Jan 2021)

hogan53 said:


> ​
> Rhizoclonium
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. Interesting to read the causes. Picking up some Amano at the weekend and already made the switch to EI dosing with dry salts from TNC complete so hopefully the situation will improve. Thanks for your help


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## CalRed (26 Jan 2021)

hogan53 said:


> ​
> Rhizoclonium
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for that. Interesting to read the causes. Picking up some Amano at the weekend and already made the switch to EI dosing with dry salts from TNC complete so hopefully the situation will improve. 


thesorcerous said:


> Someone who knows more than me may be able to confirm, but it looks a lot like the algae in my tank which I think is Rhizoclonium. I am currently having a lot of problems removing it. Like you, it started on a moss culture. I try to physically remove as much as I can as often as I can.
> 
> Rob


Hi Rob, 
Frustrating that its developing on the Moss. Its something I've had trouble with in the past albeit with a different algae. The plan was to grow it, trim and attach to more sections of hardscape but so far its all been riddled with algae so i've had to bin it. Hopefully the Amano help stop it from developing once its trimmed. Do you have shrimp in your setup?


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## thesorcerous (26 Jan 2021)

Yes, I have a few amano shrimp (I think 5, but it's hard to count them), and a population of cherry shrimp. I have just bought some Siamese Algae Eaters to deal with the other algae, and I have also reduced light, increased CO2 as much as I dare and I have stopped liquid carbon dosing.


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## CalRed (26 Jan 2021)

Upping my CO2 is something I haven't tried. Maybe it's worth giving it a go. One thing that could be improved is having 30ppm at lights on. It's usually an hour in until i hit lime green on the drop checker. Haven't tried Excel as of yet. If the shrimp don't improve the situation i'll give that a go


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## CalRed (5 Feb 2021)

thesorcerous said:


> Yes, I have a few amano shrimp (I think 5, but it's hard to count them), and a population of cherry shrimp. I have just bought some Siamese Algae Eaters to deal with the other algae, and I have also reduced light, increased CO2 as much as I dare and I have stopped liquid carbon dosing.


Any joy since making the changes?


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## Emil. (5 Feb 2021)

CalRed said:


> Haven't tried Excel


Don't. It could kill the moss completely.


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## thesorcerous (9 Feb 2021)

CalRed said:


> Any joy since making the changes?


Yes, the growth of the algae has slowed, and the SAEs have made a dent in the algae growing on some of the leaves and hardscape. I think I will try a total replant in about a month though to really try to kick it out.


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## CalRed (9 Feb 2021)

thesorcerous said:


> Yes, the growth of the algae has slowed, and the SAEs have made a dent in the algae growing on some of the leaves and hardscape. I think I will try a total replant in about a month though to really try to kick it out.


When you say a replant do you mean pull stems out and replace with new? Im always dubious about pulling out deep rooted stems in case they release root tab nutrients into the water column. I suppose a water change would negate it but I don't like risking it.


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## Fred Dulley (11 Feb 2021)

CalRed said:


> Im always dubious about pulling out deep rooted stems in case they release root tab nutrients into the water column.


Why would that be an issue?


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

I'm still struggling big time with my algae issues. EI dosing 15ml micro and macro every day and CO2 injection.
I recently tried using a light dimmer and that seems to have brought on more thread algae on top of my diatom algae that is present on the moss in the above photo. 

Phosphates are 0.5ppm
Nitrates are about 1-2ppm ( havent dosed micro and macro for last 2 days)

I'd appreciate any advice.
To make matters just that little bit worse I've somehow managed to kickstart an invasive snail baby boom. Lovely stuff!!


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## zozo (23 Feb 2021)

Believe it or not, but Black molly is a fierce alga destroyer... Beter than Amono shrimps and less expensive... I once used a couple when my tank suffered from filamentous algae and they helped a great deal... It's not my favorite fish, thus after they did what they had to do I gave them away for free... Don't know about the UK, but we have a website where we can offer 2nd hand goods and stuff, I did put an announcement on this site "Black molly's ready to pick up for free." And they were gone within a day and my phone kept ringing for days after that people asking if I had more.

With the words For Free, they come crawling from under the rocks to get it, it seems.


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

zozo said:


> Believe it or not, but Black molly is a fierce alga destroyer... Beter than Amono shrimps and less expensive... I once used a couple when my tank suffered from filamentous algae and they helped a great deal... It's not my favorite fish, thus after they did what they had to do I gave them away for free... Don't know about the UK, but we have a website where we can offer 2nd hand goods and stuff, I did put an announcement on this site "Black molly's ready to pick up for free." And they were gone within a day and my phone kept ringing for days after that people asking if I had more.
> 
> With the words For Free, they come crawling from under the rocks to get it, it seems.


Hi zozo, appreciate the advice. I'll bear that in mind regarding the black mollys. To be honest i think i need help in achieving balance in my tank with ferts co2 and light to get to the root cause of my issues. The molly may help me to rid the tank of existing algae along the way but i've found it just comes back stronger after manual removal.


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## dw1305 (23 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


CalRed said:


> I'm still struggling big time with my algae issues.


It is either <"_Fragilaria (Synedra_) a filamentous diatom"> or _Rhizoclonium_ a Green Algae. My guess would be diatoms, which will feel slightly gritty when you rub the algal filaments between your fingers.

I've never really suffered from either of these, so hopefully some-one else will be able to advise you.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (23 Feb 2021)

In some, if not many cases this balance can't often be forced and needs to develop and mature. Meanwhile, we are pulling hears trying this and that and what not more, and then we lose track in the labyrinth or remedies. And then suddenly it's all gone again, going the right way...

Leaving you/us guessing what it was we did that did it...

IMHO we are not creating but only guiding this balance in the right direction... Where patience more often is a virtue... 

Try the famous blackout, this does wonder with the least impact, work and cost other than not having visual fun for a couple of days.


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## Hufsa (23 Feb 2021)

I dont know exactly what kind of green thread algae species I have, but what has helped the most for me is turning the lights down. Im running low tech / no CO2 though.


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## Kezzab (23 Feb 2021)

Can you post some more info about your co2 regime, lighting and ferts? It's even more of a guessing game than usual without that.

I've recently solved persistent green filament algae in Xmas moss by improving/increasing co2, 100% light, regular 50% water changes every 48hrs, roughly speaking double dosing TNC complete, and using Easy Life Algexit.

The tank has no livestock, so I can be a bit more extreme.


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

Kezzab said:


> Can you post some more info about your co2 regime, lighting and ferts? It's even more of a guessing game than usual without that.
> 
> I've recently solved persistent green filament algae in Xmas moss by improving/increasing co2, 100% light, regular 50% water changes every 48hrs, roughly speaking double dosing TNC complete, and using Easy Life Algexit.
> 
> The tank has no livestock, so I can be a bit more extreme.


So my CO2 regime is 1pm till 9pm.

Photoperiod 3pm till 10pm. 
Starting from 40% to 75% which is reached at 7pm. From 9pm it dims down to 0% at 10pm. The light is 269 par which i thought would be a little intense? Hence the dimmer I use. 

Ferts are 15ml Micro and Macro Aquarium Plant Food dosed on alternate days.

Tank is heavily planted and probably has around 70L of water in it id say. 

I carry out 50 - 70% water changes weekly. Usually down to the amount of waste i have to remove.


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

Hufsa said:


> I dont know exactly what kind of green thread algae species I have, but what has helped the most for me is turning the lights down. Im running low tech / no CO2 though.


I now use a dimmer to reduce light intensity but to be honest it seems as though the algae issues have gotten worse. Green spot on the glass and now another fine hair algae on top of the diatom algae that is on the moss.


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

zozo said:


> In some, if not many cases this balance can't often be forced and needs to develop and mature. Meanwhile, we are pulling hears trying this and that and what not more, and then we lose track in the labyrinth or remedies. And then suddenly it's all gone again, going the right way...
> 
> Leaving you/us guessing what it was we did that did it...
> 
> ...


The blackout route is an avenue i'm willing to try so long as it has no impact on livestock and plants.


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## CalRed (23 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It is either <"_Fragilaria (Synedra_) a filamentous diatom"> or _Rhizoclonium_ a Green Algae. My guess would be diatoms, which will feel slightly gritty when you rub the algal filaments between your fingers.
> 
> ...


I'm almost certain it's Fragilaria on the moss.


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## Kezzab (23 Feb 2021)

Hi, a few thoughts... ths is what I'd do. I don't claim it to be The Answer however.

I'm not sure what light you have, but you only have 2 hours a day when its at its highest intensity, and even then it's only at 75%. Lack of light could be a factor. I'd go for a 10 minute ramp up and down and then leave at the 75% for the moment.

I can't see if there is a diffuser in the tank, or are you using a reactor? Either way your drop checker is a very dark green and some of your plants have that look of being a bit co2 starved. If your drop checker is light green at lights on then you know you've optimised co2 to its safe potential, more or less. So I'd try to do that. You already have it coming on 2 hours in advance, so you need to increase the injection rate. Do it very gradually over several days, tweaking each day, until you get light green at lights on. Keep an eye on livestock.

I'm no ferts expert, but dose as per recommended on the APF website for a high tech tank.

Do 2 water changes a week if you can. At least for a few weeks.

Giving more light, food and co2 is going to give your plants the best chance to thrive.

I'd also consider the Algexit route if you don't see improvement.

Of course all this could make it worse, but it would be my route from here.


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## CalRed (24 Feb 2021)

Kezzab said:


> Hi, a few thoughts... ths is what I'd do. I don't claim it to be The Answer however.
> 
> I'm not sure what light you have, but you only have 2 hours a day when its at its highest intensity, and even then it's only at 75%. Lack of light could be a factor. I'd go for a 10 minute ramp up and down and then leave at the 75% for the moment.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kezzab. Today's water change day so i'll put all that into practice and see what happens over the coming weeks. I've probably underestimated the importance of hitting 30ppm CO2 at lights on to be honest.


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## Kezzab (24 Feb 2021)

Good luck. Get your Co2 sorted before you increase your light by the way.


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## shangman (24 Feb 2021)

CalRed said:


> The blackout route is an avenue i'm willing to try so long as it has no impact on livestock and plants.


I've done several blackouts recently on my tanks to deal with Spirogyra. The fish have been completely fine every time, other than hiding for a bit when it's ended (best to take the plastic off in the evening with lights out so they don't get full light until the next morning). The algae was always depleted, but not always eradicated, sometimes it needs multiple with just a few days in-between blackouts.

Edit: also the plants were all fine, the worst that happened was that my lotus stems grew very long so it isn't compact any more, other than that hardly any change.


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## CalRed (3 Mar 2021)

Update...

Light has been set at 75% intensity for 6 hours with a 10 min ramp up and down. 
CO2 has been increased to hit 30ppm at lights on. 
EI dosing regime has continued (going to do a Nitrate and Phosphate test today before water change)

Algae situation hasn't changed yet but remaining patient. Next steps are to introduce another water change into the week.

One potential issue I may have found while looking into lighting is the PAR rating of my light. 269 PAR at source with a tank depth of 15 inches seems overkill? 
From charts i've seen, 200 PAR (75%) is still very intense? 
Maybe i've got even more room to drop the lighting?


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## Kezzab (3 Mar 2021)

Personally I would leave the light as it is for a few weeks at least, unless things take a turn for the worse. Even then with good co2 and EI dosing that lighting should note be problematic (others more expert than i may differ!).
Look for how your plants are responding, are you getting more, stronger, healthier growth over time?
Try ignoring the algae for a while and just focus on good growth.
Ive learnt patience is really weeks not days unfortunately.


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## CalRed (9 Mar 2021)

Plant growth is ok. I have to trim every week however algae growth is relentless. We had a newcomer to the party in staghorn algae this week.
Im remaining patient, co2 is 30ppm at lights on and id say im pushing it to its limit with the dropchecker (lime green bordering yellow).
Light has remained the same and ferts are still dosed using the EI kit from Aquarium Plantfood. 15ml a day micro and macro for my 90l tank.

Ive just bought a downward facing lily pipe outlet to try and help with any potential flow issues.


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## Fred Dulley (9 Mar 2021)

CalRed said:


> Im remaining patient, co2 is 30ppm at lights on and id say im pushing it to its limit with the dropchecker (lime green bordering yellow).


The drop checker offers a guide but really the limitation is dictated by the tank inhabitants. If the plants and algae indicate you need more CO2 then you either need to add more CO2 or decrease light intensity. A lot of folk will adjust their injection rate to the point where the CO2 is at a level where the fish show signs of it being too high for them, then theyll back off the injection rate so they fish return to normal. They then know that is the limit.


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## Kezzab (9 Mar 2021)

Hi, it's been a week since you changed your light setting isnt it?
The pics Look to me like you are getting really nice new growth on a lot of plants. 

But you have what looks like soft brown diatoms, staghorn and hair algae.

The diatoms should just be a phase, but Otos will often eat it. Do you have any? If not keep up the manual removal with toothbrush or what3vr.

In terms of the staghorn, is it affecting old growth or old and new? If just old id trim away the old leaves. If on new too, then look at your cleaning and water changes.

In my experience hair algae can be a nuisance once it's established. I'd give it another week and then maybe Try the Algexit route, but note that is a 4 week treatment.

More time, more growth, will start to balance the tank out.

You could reduce light but I think your plant growth looks like the light is right, at least in the pics you've posted.


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## CalRed (10 Mar 2021)

The plants do need regular weekly trimming to help maintain a good flow around the tank. I've just changed to a downwards pointing lily pipe to see if that makes any difference.

Big water change this evening, removing the dead leaves where staghorn algae was forming. Removed a lot of the diatoms and some green hair algae but like you say, its difficult to remove. I cleaned the trays in the biomaster which were quite dirty.

In terms of algae treatments, i'll hold out till as long as possible. I've a feeling it's going down that route if im honest, the hair algae has taken hold in the last week and with it being difficult to remove manually, that may be the only way.

I've probably got 5 Amanos left, 2 zebra nerites, 2 maybe 3 Otos and 6 corydoras in there. I thought they'd have had more of an impact on the tank but it doesn't seem as though they can keep the greenspot, diatoms and hair algae at bay.

It's probably been 2 weeks now since the lighting has been off full intensity. CO2 has been a lot more stable now and the dosing has been consistent.


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## CalRed (10 Mar 2021)

Fred Dulley said:


> The drop checker offers a guide but really the limitation is dictated by the tank inhabitants. If the plants and algae indicate you need more CO2 then you either need to add more CO2 or decrease light intensity. A lot of folk will adjust their injection rate to the point where the CO2 is at a level where the fish show signs of it being too high for them, then theyll back off the injection rate so they fish return to normal. They then know that is the limit.


The only issue that is preventing me from pushing the CO2 further is one of my corys that seems to have started 'passing out' since i upped my co2. The rest of the fish are fine so it may be something completely unconnected but whe I use my outlet to oxygenate the water he seems to pick up. You can see him on one of the photos motionless and on his side. This happens often and then he swims off when disturbed or when i oxygenate the water.


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## Fred Dulley (11 Mar 2021)

CalRed said:


> The only issue that is preventing me from pushing the CO2 further is one of my corys that seems to have started 'passing out' since i upped my co2. The rest of the fish are fine so it may be something completely unconnected but whe I use my outlet to oxygenate the water he seems to pick up. You can see him on one of the photos motionless and on his side. This happens often and then he swims off when disturbed or when i oxygenate the water.


I completely understand. After all, the fish are the main reason we are in this hobby.
Perhaps increase the CO2 but raise your outlet to promote good gas/oxygen exchange. The plants will also photosynthesise more with an increase in CO2 and therefore produce more oxygen.


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