# Kessil a160's vs fluval 3.0 plant



## James Burcham (5 Jun 2019)

I am currently putting together an aquascape and purchased a fluval 3.0 plant light before realizing it's a lower mol rated light. However I do like the customizable features it has ex. timer, intensity. Ramp up and ramp down. 

My questions are 
 If I add a second fixture will it be enough to grow carpeting plants?

Or.

Should I scrap the fluval and go with 2 kessil a160's?

My tank is 36 in L x 18 in H x 15 in W
It will be C02 injected.

On the kessil a160 does anyone have experience with these specifically. If so can the be programmed ect?

Thanks in advance!


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## James Burcham (5 Jun 2019)

Here is a link to the kessil setup I was looking at. Are these powerful enough for a high energy aquascape? 

Kessil Planted Tank LED Aquarium Light Bundle (2X A160s, Controller & 2X Goosenecks) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JHVJ5NT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_oUa-CbSZWYKKP


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## alto (5 Jun 2019)

I won’t comment on pricing as that’s easy enough for you to do
But
I would contact Kessil USA and see if they’re planning to release a 160X Tuna Sun (I’ve not seen this IRL but supposedly “better” reds, also more efficient etc)

90cm x 45cm x 53cm tall (old Oceanic Show tank)
2 Kessil A160

60cm x 45cm x 53cm tall (again old OS tank)
1 Kessil A160

Monte Carlo does very well, Ive not done HC in these tanks as I’m not an enthusiastic trimmer 

As your tank is only 45cm high, the Kessils should grow anything you want

I’m still not a fan of Fluval LEDs - especially in Canada they are madly overpriced for older or fairly basic technology

Note that the new Kessil X series is NOT compatible with the old controllers - they’ve promised WiFi but it’s not built in, need to add an accessory “dongle” which was promised ages ago now (is it even available yet as a prototype?) but really at the X Series price point, it *should* be built in 
OR included as a free upgrade accessory

I do think that Kessil builds fantastic Cluster Matrix LEDs (incl. great lens, driver, gorgeous all metal construction ...) AND made in USA so obviously not going to be competitively priced with Chinese constructs that are imported & sold under US labels (as some final “putting together” is done stateside)
As with most of these, the mounting options are rather clunky (but again metal and sturdy) ... I’ve the Goosenecks and while I like the swivel option, next time I’d choose the  Mounting Arm (not available when I got mine) as it’s far more elegant looking

Though again I prefer the ADA light stand - except too $$$
Possibly UNS has a similar option


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## James Burcham (6 Jun 2019)

Thanks for the info I think I'm going to scrap the fluval and go with Kessil.


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## alto (6 Jun 2019)

Hah!
Forgot to say you MUST love glitter lines if going with any dense matrix LED - though minimal surface ripple really calms the effect

I’m not so keen on the Ceiling DIsco but love the in tank light effect (I’ve taught my eyes to Not See Eheim Green, Celing DIsco is easy  )



Fluval light will be similar to Twinstar - different spectrum etc but same diffuse quality to light


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## James Burcham (6 Jun 2019)

Is the twinstar as powerful you think?


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## alto (6 Jun 2019)

I think it grows plants just as well
But
I like my greens, green and that red balance/bias of the Twinstar S series (the E lacks the red bias but is also lower power) means the greens have a yellow cast - it you stay with darker greens, it’s less noticeable... MC, Micranthemum umbrosum, Hemianthus micranthemoides are some of my favorites 

You can see side by side tanks with ADA Aquasky vs Twinstar S beginning ~2:30 in this FAAO video


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## rebel (6 Jun 2019)

Consider Twinstar and even AI Prime Fresh.


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## alto (6 Jun 2019)

rebel said:


> even AI Prime Fresh.


Ive not seen the newer Prime HD FW version, but between local display tank with the previous version Prime vs Kessil A160, I much preferred the Kessil - especially when comparing build quality (lots of issues with their tank mounts as well re US forums)

Local shop offered an excellent price on the AI Prime HD FW but I disliked that there is no manual on/off (unless you want to unplug) and there have been some extraordinary buggy stories re software issues

Am I being too negative?
I really wanted to like the AI Prime HD FW 
(but I walked out with another Kessil A160  ... for rather more  )


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## James Burcham (6 Jun 2019)

After speaking with Kessil I realized the spectral controller will provide ramping and timer ability. Does Twinstar have anything like this?


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## rebel (6 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Am I being too negative?


Hard to know. I realise it hasn't really been popular in the FW hobby. I do wish they had a bluer spectrum though (swap two of those warm white LEDS to cool!). I prefer a bluer tank.


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## rebel (6 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> greens have a yellow cast


I can't stand this! I just seem to assume that my plants are nitrate deficient ....and the tank looks dirty.


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## becks (10 Jun 2019)

Do you think two kessil 160s would be ok for a aquascaper 1200? it just seems two 360s would be over kill for a planted fresh water aquarium and most people have them turned down to around 50%


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## Siege (10 Jun 2019)

James Burcham said:


> After speaking with Kessil I realized the spectral controller will provide ramping and timer ability. Does Twinstar have anything like this?



Yes! 

https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/led-controllerdimmer-for-twinstar-lights-3615-p.asp

You’ll find similar on eBay in the U.S. just need an adaptor to go from 2.1mm to 2.5mm (my link includes this as standard)  you’ll be able to track it down on eBay for a few quid. Check out the hinterfield page in sponsors and you’ll see what I mean.




becks said:


> Do you think two kessil 160s would be ok for a aquascaper 1200? it just seems two 360s would be over kill for a planted fresh water aquarium and most people have them turned down to around 50%




No way.

You’ll need 2 X 360’s or my favourite light the Twinstar 1200 S


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## becks (10 Jun 2019)

I dont quite understand how as the 160 is 40w and the 360 is 90w, so around 50% the power.  The lens is the same and both fixtures quote the same coverage, the only difference I can see according to the specs is that the 360 has better penertration, which is up to 3ft where as te 160 it says max 2ft.  George farmer runs his at 50%.

Have you used the 160?


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## Siege (10 Jun 2019)

Hi becks.

Yes I have used a 160 - on a AS600. The spread was inadequate to cover the whole tank and therefore could not grow a carpet. The actual light unit is much smaller than the 360.

From memory George has the non-planted side 360 light at 50%, The planted light higher. He wants super slow growth so less maintenance and is only growing low light crypts.

Imo the Twinstar will give you a much better light penetration and spread than the kessil for a fraction of the cost than the 360.

I think I’m right in saying @Geoffrey Rea runs 160s on his 4’ tank and uses 4 of them.....!


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## Siege (10 Jun 2019)

Ps. Where abouts are you based Becks? Might be worth a trip to AG to see the lights in the flesh.


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## becks (10 Jun 2019)

Oh right thanks for the information! In that case it would have be the 360s.  I’m an hour and half away from aquarium gardens but it would be worth a visit to see the 360s in the flesh on a planted aquarium. It’s who I plan on buying my plants from anyway.

I like the colour of the twinstars, but I prefer the shimmer from leds especially Kessils as I find it looks more natural. (I use to regret not having kessils on my reef tank, for the shimmer)


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## alto (10 Jun 2019)

I have a single A160 on my 60cm x 45cm x 53cm(high) - MC carpet does fine 
I suspect HC would be less forgiving 

I also have 2 x A160 on a 90cm x 45cm x 53cm(high) - again MC is fine - but 2 x A360 would’ve been a better choice, especially once you add in significant hardscape, that extra light spread and intensity (even at reduced power) would be very nice to have 
(it just wasn’t in the budget AND the 160’s looked so much better  the new X series is grand but then also higher price again)


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## Siege (10 Jun 2019)

Cool @alto have you got any pictures?


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## rebel (11 Jun 2019)

The newer Kessils seem to have a better spectrum and more control although still using an external controller. Have a look at em.


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## alto (11 Jun 2019)

Siege said:


> Cool @alto have you got any pictures?


Haven’t we already discussed my abysmal photographic skillz 
This is one version that happens to be on my iPad- several weeks after a rescape

Note the elegant Net accessory 

The blueness is Apple IOS/camera - I find it’s either too blue or too yellow and seldom reflects the tank irl


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## James Burcham (11 Jun 2019)

I went with 2 160s. I'll post some updates when it's setup. I won't be planting for about a month and a half. Thanks again for all the helpful info!


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## becks (12 Jun 2019)

I decided to go with the Radion XR15FW, Ive seen they will produce shimmer/glitter lines while having more red in the spectrum than the kessils. I like the twinstars but I want puck style light fixtures as Im hanging the lights from the ceiling with the power cord going into the ceiling too.


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## Siege (12 Jun 2019)

Cool. Bear in mind you’ll need 3 (maybe get way with 2 with low light plants and depending on how high you suspend them).
Think about where you sit. You don’t want to be looking up at a point source light.

Have used the sea version before but not the freshwater. Be interesting to see what you think 

If you are spending that sort of money why not consider the ADA Solar RGB or the new MaxLite. Edit. I think you’ll need 2 of them.........!


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## James Burcham (12 Jun 2019)

Kessil said with 2 I would need to be about 6 in off the water surface. We will see. They arrived today so hooray for that!

I'll look into ADA and Maxlite.



Siege said:


> Edit. I think you’ll need 2 of them.........!



2 of which?


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## becks (12 Jun 2019)

Let us know how you get on.


Yeah I’ll only need to radions, same if I was getting 360s.  But I don’t need to cover the h


Siege said:


> Cool. Bear in mind you’ll need 3 (maybe get way with 2 with low light plants and depending on how high you suspend them).
> Think about where you sit. You don’t want to be looking up at a point source light.
> 
> Have used the sea version before but not the freshwater. Be interesting to see what you think
> ...



I should be fine with two due to the aquascape I plan on using, I specficaly want a puck style led that I can hang and then place a rustic shade around it too. I do like the light the twinstars produce, but I prefer how more natural the tanks look with shimmer from leds like kessils and radions, abiet not as well as the kessil. I'll still go and look at the radions in the flesh just to double check I like the lighting.





James Burcham said:


> Kessil said with 2 I would need to be about 6 in off the water surface. We will see. They arrived today so hooray for that!
> 
> I'll look into ADA and Maxlite.
> 
> ...



Let us know how you get on with the lights!


Its quite intresting when you look at the following charts and compare the different lighting models, especially when you compare the kessils against other lights, especially the 160 against 360
http://www.aquaillumination.com/science/par.html


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## alto (13 Jun 2019)

becks said:


> Its quite intresting when you look at the following charts and compare the different lighting models, especially when you compare the kessils against other lights, especially the 160 against 360
> http://www.aquaillumination.com/science/par.html


There wouldn't be any bias of course 

There are independent studies comparing Kessil vs Prime that show rather different data

It would’ve been nice of AI to include their Freshwater LED versions


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## Ed Wiser (13 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> It would’ve been nice of AI to include their Freshwater LED versions


The average freshwater hobbyist doesn't want to spend money on a "expensive" light. Where as a reef hobbyist will spend it multiple times. The average reef hobbyist will cycle thru different lights every 6 months. So aquarium lighting companies don't really see Planted tanks as a market to include their freshwater lights in a list like this.


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## James Burcham (19 Jun 2019)

becks said:


> Let us know how you get on with the lights!



Here is a crude illustration of the data I collected with the par meter. Lights are 6 inches from water surface and 11 5/8 inches apart.


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## alto (19 Jun 2019)

Now do it all again 
That should give yo a measure of your own repeatability 

Then I suggest repeating the measurements at a couple of light intensities as well as spectra


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## James Burcham (19 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Now do it all again
> That should give yo a measure of your own repeatability
> 
> Then I suggest repeating the measurements at a couple of light intensities as well as spectra



I plan on it. 

Also the numbers represent some sort of a guessed average due to the shimmer. The numbers were jumping quite a bit.


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## alto (19 Jun 2019)

Do you have the Kessils equidistant across the length of the tank?

I set mine slightly closer to the edges than to each other


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## James Burcham (19 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Do you have the Kessils equidistant across the length of the tank?
> 
> I set mine slightly closer to the edges than to each other



They are equidistant. Which is why they are so bright in the center.  I was thinking of spreading them out a couple of inches to see how much it raises the outer numbers and give a more uniform pattern. 

I just want to make sure I can grow a nice carpet near the perimeter of the tank.


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