# Dry fert dosing



## dkm (18 Aug 2010)

Hi All,

Just about to change over to EI from TPN+ dosing.

My aquarium is 400L high lit, pressurized co2, high tech planted tank. Dosing at present 50ml tpn+ daily and easycarbo 16ml daily with no problems.

What I was wondering was on fluidsensors website they have a typical routine as follows:

Potassium nitrate KNO3 0.011 gm / litre
Monopotassium phosphate KH2PO4 0.0015 gm / litre
Potassium sulphate K2SO4 0.011 gm /litre
Magnesium sulphate MgSO4 0.035 gm / litre
These should be added 3 times per week, every other day.
On the alternate days add Fluidsensor Trace Mix at the rate of 0.002 gm / litre
Every day add 0.02 â€“ 0.04 ml / litre EasyCarbo

Sunday â€“ 50% water change, add salts (or stock solutions) + EasyCarbo
Monday â€“ Add trace mix + EasyCarbo
Tuesday â€“ Add salts + EasyCarbo
Wednesday â€“ Add trace + EasyCarbo
Thursday â€“ Add salts + EasyCarbo
Friday â€“ Add trace + EasyCarbo
Saturday â€“ EasyCarbo

Would this be a good starting point? And adjust up or down as necessary.

Regards

dave


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## dkm (19 Aug 2010)

Therefore my dosing will be:

16ml Easycarbo everyday
4.4g KN03 - 3 times a week
0.6g KH2PO4 - 3 times a week
4.4g K2SO4 - 3 times a week
14g MgSO4 - 3 times a week
0.8g Trace - 3 times a week

????

Regards

Dave


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## ceg4048 (19 Aug 2010)

K2SO4 is completely redundant. A waste of money if you are dosing EI levels of KNO3. That's a lot of MgSO4 usage as well, depending on your tap. Could get expensive. PO4 looks low as well. 

I would just do 1 teaspoon KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon KH2PO4 3X a week, 1/2 teaspoon trace 2X per week and add 1/2 dozen teaspoons Epsom Salts at water change, and call it good. 

I start tuning to another station when people  quote anorak numbers like 0.011g per L for an "Estimative" dosing scheme. I mean, are you really going to sit at your desk with electronic scales and measure out exactly 4.4 grams or 0.6 grams of powder? This dosing scheme was meant to make life easy, not to turn you into a Laboratory Rat.  

Cheers,


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## CeeJay (20 Aug 2010)

Bugger, you beat me to it Clive   
I just worked out the numbers and was about to post when you popped up.

What I had also added was that you may be able to back off the MgSO4 gradually, leaving 3 or 4 weeks between the changes and if no deficiencies are noted then reduce even further. That's how I started and now I don't use any at all.  Must be plenty in my tap water.  One less thing to buy


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## dkm (20 Aug 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> This dosing scheme was meant to make life easy, not to turn you into a Laboratory Rat.



Lab Rat thats me. And I like doing maths, measuring out exact amounts. Bit odd I know but it takes all sorts. And I hate teaspoons! Love technical stuff and would sit down with my lovely little scales and do it  

Anyway thank you for the info guys I have taken your advice on board. Your input is much appreciated.

I have not started EI yet so can play around with starting dose and technique. 

Can grams be converted into teaspoon easily just to please my measuring / digital scales fetish?

Also if I wanted to premix in RO 4 weeks supply, how much water would it take to dissolve properly (if I have calculated your suggestion correctly ceg):

12 teaspoons of KN03
6 teaspoons of KH2PO4

Regards

dave


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## dkm (20 Aug 2010)

Forgot to add:

since I already have Magnesium sulphate can I use this instead of the epsom salts you suggested ceg. If so should it still be 6 teaspoons each water change?

also already have the K2S04 so if my thinking is correct extra K does not do any harm so might as well use it till my supply is gone?

Sorry for so many questions.

regards

dave


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## CeeJay (20 Aug 2010)

Hi Dave


			
				dkm said:
			
		

> since I already have Magnesium sulphate can I use this instead of the epsom salts you suggested ceg. If so should it still be 6 teaspoons each water change?


That will be fine.



			
				dkm said:
			
		

> also already have the K2S04 so if my thinking is correct extra K does not do any harm so might as well use it till my supply is gone?


That won't do you any harm either.

Check out this link to satisfy your weighing scale fetish   James' Teaspoon to Grams Table. On this page it also states solubility of dry salts too  . This is one very useful site, with loads of his own research gone in to preparing it. Definitely one to bookmark


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## dkm (21 Aug 2010)

Thanks Chris,

Going to have a look at James site right now. Your input is a great help to me. So glad of all the experts on UKAPS. 

Only got a weeks TPN+ left so want to get everything ready to roll.

Regards

Dave


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## Seattle_Aquarist (22 Aug 2010)

Hi All,

I am a newer member here at ukaps.org, I joined to learn what is happening in the hobby on the other side of "The Pond' and to see what I can learn or offer some insight as to what we are doing here in the U.S.  I am a Moderator at Aquatic Plant Central (APC), a similar site to ukaps.org.

I have been dosing using the Estimative Index (EI) method for about 18 months now and I like it.  What I found difficult at times was computing the correct amounts of the various additives.  Recently a member at APC mentioned a calculator that they liked.  The calculator came from "quenton", a member of The Barr Report.  What I like about the calculator is it is very versatile.  It does liters, Imperial and U.S. gallons.  It does both grams and teaspoons.  

I put in my tank name, water volume, target ppm's for N, P, K, Mg, and Ca.; and how often I want to dose.  I hit calculate and it tells me how much to dose.  Here is a link to download to calculator if you are interested.   
http://www.cherniaksoftware.com/homepage/Data/NutriCalc.exe
I would be interested in your feedback and what calculators you like "over there".

Thanks,
 -Roy


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## GHNelson (22 Aug 2010)

Hi Roy
Welcome to the ukaps gang.
You don't need Easycarbo if you have pressurised Co2.....ditch it and save some cash.
Or stop the dosing for a period of time and monitor the affects after withdrawal.
Regards
hoggie


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## dkm (22 Aug 2010)

Cheers Roy for the link. I will take a look.

Hoggie - I am only using easycarbo because with my water if I up the pressurised co2 any more the ph goes lower than I want it to. SO using both gets the levels I need without taking my ph too low.

Regards 

Dave


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## GHNelson (22 Aug 2010)

Hi Roy
That's a good answer, and a good tip always learning.
hoggie


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## CeeJay (22 Aug 2010)

Hi Dave.

When you talk about pH, what do you mean by 'too low'? Are you keeping species that are susceptible to low pH.
If not, I wouldn't worry about lowering your pH via CO2 injection.
I learnt a while ago from Tom Barr (aka plantbrain) that the effect of altering the pH by CO2 injection is nowhere near as detrimental to the fish as lowering the pH using acidic buffers like Ph Down etc. Made sense to me at the time, just can't find the post right now. I will have a search.
So if you're keeping your run of the mill 'tropical fish', I wouldn't worry about pH fluctuations caused by your CO2, in the slightest.
I run my drop checker in the yellow and keep Rummynose, Harlequins, Otos and shrimp in this tank and they have lived there since May '09   .

On the other hand, if you are keeping sensitive species, I will shut up and go away


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## CeeJay (23 Aug 2010)

Hi Dave.

Found it   
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7553
Worth reading the whole discussion. Tom Barr gets involved around post No. 8


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## dkm (23 Aug 2010)

Cheers Chris,

I will have a look. Always willing to learn.

By going too low with ph I mean I dont want it to go below 6. I am trying to keep the ph where all my plants like it. I have some plants that according to Tropica should be kept above a ph of 6. Just trying to give all inhabitants the best conditions to survive. Can be a bit of a juggling act sometimes.

Regards

Dave


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## CeeJay (23 Aug 2010)

Hi Dave


			
				dkm said:
			
		

> Can be a bit of a juggling act sometimes.


It certanly can be mate, but me, I gave up worrying about pH a long time ago   . Every plant I have stuck in my hi tech has adapted to whatever pH it was at the time. There may be some plants that are fussy about pH, but I haven't come across them yet.
I now spend my life worrying about CO2 distribution. 
The rest is relatively easy


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## dkm (23 Aug 2010)

I am still relatively new to this planted aquarium stuff.

Guess I have to go through the same stages as everyone else has. Working out what to be worried about and what not to be worried about.

Yeah co2 distribution worries me too   

Regards

Dave


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## ceg4048 (23 Aug 2010)

Hi,
   Let me save you the travails of going through a stage:

Plants don't care about pH.

Here are some plants at pH 3.5:






Here are some plants at around pH 5:





Concentrate on CO2 application techniques, flow/distribution, nutrient dosing and cleanliness. Forget about pH, KH and GH.

Cheers,


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## dkm (23 Aug 2010)

Lesson learnt. Dont worry about ph. Ignore ph guidelines on plants.

Cheers Ceg

Regards

Dave


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