# Carpet plants not growing??



## Marc1t (18 Feb 2016)

Hi
I'm having a very frustrating time trying to grow carpet plants I have Monte Carlo & Pogostemon Helferi no matter what Iv tried or changed it hasn't made any difference they are either not growing or very slowly
All the stem plants are growing fine.
A pic these carpet plants have been in a month now & I would have thought they would have grown faster than this?
https://www.flickr.com/gp/140301950@N04/vb8UJf

Tank is 65x65x65cm cube 270l
Water 50/50 RO/tap temp 28c keeping Discus
Lighting 4 X 24 watt iquatics unit with reflectors photoperiod 8 hours
EI dosing according to aquarium plant food
Co2 injection green Dc in all areas of the tank prior to lights on

Having read many threads on similar problems o thought it was a flow issue but I have 2 filters running total flow figures according to spec is 1900 lpm I also bought a Hydor Koralia 1600 further 1600 lpm & an eheim skimmer about 300 lpm so a total ov 2800lpm all this flow is direced straight at the front wall by a spray bar& eheim plastic Lilly pipe 
I'm now wondering weather I have enough light
Can anybody offer some advice, what more can I do to get this stuff growing.
Cheers for any help
Marc


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## Greenfinger2 (18 Feb 2016)

Hi Marc, What substrate are you using and how old is it . Maybe it needs root tabs. Not sure on the lighting it is a deep tank .


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## Marc1t (18 Feb 2016)

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Marc, What substrate are you using and how old is it . Maybe it needs root tabs. Not sure on the lighting it is a deep tank .



Yeah sorry should have said 
ADA aqua soil tank has been running about a year & iv recently added flourish tabs


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## Greenfinger2 (19 Feb 2016)

Marc1t said:


> Yeah sorry should have said
> ADA aqua soil tank has been running about a year & iv recently added flourish tabs



Strange it should do well ?? Mind you, As you said the plants have only been in a month they maybe just settling in. I would of expected more growth though.  It must be the lighting ask in the light section of the forum.


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## Marc1t (19 Feb 2016)

Thanks Iv posted a link in the lighting section
Possible problems Iv thought about I have some large Amazon plants in the background could be interfering with the flow? but I'm still getting a nice green DC in all areas & I can see movement as well as co2 mist on plants at substrate level though obviously not as much as the taller stem plants.
Temperature, not sure if Monte Carlo can take 28c though Pogostamon Helferi should be ok & they are struggling too?
As you say could be still adjusting they are from the cultured pots rather than grown submerged in wool.
& lastly lighting,Is it against the law to talk about adding more lighting on this forum?


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## Greenfinger2 (19 Feb 2016)

Hi Marc, Quote Is it against the law to talk about adding more lighting on this forum?

No  You just have to match the Co2 output to you lights.


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## Marc1t (19 Feb 2016)

Too much Co2 not enough light???


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## Jose (19 Feb 2016)

I dont think its not enough light with 4 tubes and gooc reflectors. Are you adding Mg? A video of your co2 distribution system could help. Dont forget to show surface agitation if you do it. Also bps, reactor type and anything else.


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## Greenfinger2 (19 Feb 2016)

Marc1t said:


> Too much Co2 not enough light???



Hi Marc no the more light the more Co2 your plants will need.


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## Marc1t (19 Feb 2016)

Jose said:


> I dont think its not enough light with 4 tubes and gooc reflectors. Are you adding Mg? A video of your co2 distribution system could help. Dont forget to show surface agitation if you do it. Also bps, reactor type and anything else.


By Mg I'm assuming you mean
Magnesium sulphate MgSO4?  then yes as part of Macro solution from aquarium plant food
I will try & upload a video but I'm on an iPad & it wouldn't let me last time
At the moment I'm using an inline diffuser.


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## Jose (19 Feb 2016)

All sounds good. How many bubbles per second are you doing?
We can try and estimate your light. Do you know the distance from lights to soil? Also are the 4 bulbs t5?


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## Marc1t (19 Feb 2016)

Hi thanks for your help

Ok 4 tubes are each24 watt t5 HO as supplied by Iqatics
Distance from lights to substrate is 20inches 51 cm
Bubble count is too fast to count, I've steadily tweaked it to get a green DC at lights on takes about 2 hours.


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## Marc1t (19 Feb 2016)

Iv uploaded a video sorry it's not that great but I hope it shows something


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## Wombat (20 Feb 2016)

I found Monte Carlo established itself & grew much quicker in my tank when planted in tiny tiny portions, almost totally buried in the substrate (maybe just 1 or 2 leaves sticking out). Don't bother trying to align the root structures the right way up etc, just push it down into the soil and forget about it.
I never had much luck in the past with Pogostemon Helferi but I'll have another go soon.
Good luck


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## Chris Jackson (20 Feb 2016)

Is there any sign of pearling from the Monte Carlo? If not then more light is probably needed, mine pearled strongly when it grew well. You may end up struggling with 28c temps because more light wil up CO2 demand but adequate CO2 could become more difficult at a discus friendly 28c. You might want to consider adding Marsilea  Crenata alongside and see how that settles in, it should be rather more at home in your tanks conditions.


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## Marc1t (20 Feb 2016)

Chris Jackson said:


> Is there any sign of pearling from the Monte Carlo? If not then more light is probably needed, mine pearled strongly when it grew well. You may end up struggling with 28c temps because more light wil up CO2 demand but adequate CO2 could become more difficult at a discus friendly 28c. You might want to consider adding Marsilea  Crenata alongside and see how that settles in, it should be rather more at home in your tanks conditions.



Thanks Chris
No there is no sign of pearling at all on the Monte Carlo or anywhere for that matter even when I cranked the co2 up to fish stress levels I do get some bubbles on the Amazon swords but I'm not convinced it's pearling, I think it's just the Co2 clinging to the leaves
Does temp effect DC indication? I would have thought no matter what the temp is if the DC is green then there is adequate Co2. I'm going to get a ph pen for better analysis 



Wombat said:


> I found Monte Carlo established itself & grew much quicker in my tank when planted in tiny tiny portions, almost totally buried in the substrate (maybe just 1 or 2 leaves sticking out). Don't bother trying to align the root structures the right way up etc, just push it down into the soil and forget about it.
> I never had much luck in the past with Pogostemon Helferi but I'll have another go soon.
> Good luck


Thanks for this tip I think I'm going to get another plant pot & try it, after all there are plenty of gaps to fill which the plants I have don't want to fill.


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## Jose (20 Feb 2016)

If there is no pearling even on higher levels of the tank then something is wrong. I would say a nutrient is limitting. You might even waant to dose Ca for that matter. Those bubbles you see on the Amazon Swords, they are O2. I dont think co2 or light are the problem here, at least not the main one.


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## Chris Jackson (20 Feb 2016)

From the look of your video I'd say the swords are pearling O2. You clearly have good circulation and if you re addding EI nutrient levels than I cannot agree with Jose regarding a fert limitation. It's a deep tank so harder to get intense light down to the substrate, MC likes plenty of light, yes it will grow with less, particularly once well established, but it won't carpet like crazy without a good deal of light. 
A good deal of light and 28c increases the challenges because it is well accepted that higher temps make CO2 enrichment harder whilst more light increases CO2 demand....doesn't mean it cant be done of course. I'm simply suggesting the MC might not be the best choice for a discus tank.


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## MrHidley (20 Feb 2016)

Wombat said:


> I found Monte Carlo established itself & grew much quicker in my tank when planted in tiny tiny portions, almost totally buried in the substrate (maybe just 1 or 2 leaves sticking out). Don't bother trying to align the root structures the right way up etc, just push it down into the soil and forget about it.
> I never had much luck in the past with Pogostemon Helferi but I'll have another go soon.
> Good luck



I have also found this to be the case, with MC it certainly seems that less is more when planting.


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## Marc1t (21 Feb 2016)

Chris Jackson said:


> From the look of your video I'd say the swords are pearling O2. You clearly have good circulation and if you re addding EI nutrient levels than I cannot agree with Jose regarding a fert limitation. It's a deep tank so harder to get intense light down to the substrate, MC likes plenty of light, yes it will grow with less, particularly once well established, but it won't carpet like crazy without a good deal of light.
> A good deal of light and 28c increases the challenges because it is well accepted that higher temps make CO2 enrichment harder whilst more light increases CO2 demand....doesn't mean it cant be done of course. I'm simply suggesting the MC might not be the best choice for a discus tank.



Chris, thanks very much, 
I haven't yet measured ph with a pen at various stages of lights on off Co2 on off to get a profile of my tanks Co2 levels
I appreciate what you are saying more light = more Co2 uptake by the plants, so more Co2 required to achieve the levels I have now without the extra light.
Yes my tank is deep please quote me f I'm wrong but everything points to lack of lighting, particularly at substrate leveI so I think it may be worth trying to increase.


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## AQUA MARINE (18 Nov 2021)

i think I found the reason why. Set your aquarium temperature to 23-34 degree C. The fish will do ok and this will prevent plants from melting and enhance their growth. Try this for a month and you should see visible growths


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## Hufsa (18 Nov 2021)

AQUA MARINE said:


> i think I found the reason why. Set your aquarium temperature to 23-34 degree C. The fish will do ok and this will prevent plants from melting and enhance their growth. Try this for a month and you should see visible growths


This thread was last active in 2016, I hope they have solved the problem at this point.


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## Angus (18 Nov 2021)

Hufsa said:


> This thread was last active in 2016, I hope they have solved the problem at this point.


A for effort though.


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## eminor (19 Nov 2021)

rule number one : it's always a co2 issue


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## dw1305 (25 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


eminor said:


> rule number one : it's always a co2 issue


That is why I needed a floating plant for the <"Duckweed Index">, access to <"atmospheric gases">.

cheers Darrel


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