# flygja's 60cm NAC



## flygja (18 Apr 2011)

NAC = NA Clone. So nothing groundbreaking or creative, just NA by the books. Miss the feeling of growing and trimming stems, so here goes!

All the specs are the same as my previous scape, with the exception of the soil. Trying out KW's own-brand soil since there's a shortage of ADA Amazonia. KW is a local LFS in Malaysia.






It's darker than Amazonia in a black sorta way. My lighting makes it look bluish compared to Amazonia. Granules are more varied in size with both larger and smaller granules than Amazonia. Had it for a month and rescaped once, not much crumbling so that's good. Glosso didn't grow much either, so the jury is still out on this one.

Didn't take any pics during the setup. Here's what it looks like after one day. Oh I have to say, crystal clear water with the KW soil   





Stems are Rotala rotundifolia red, Rotala nanjenshan and Micranthenum micranthemoides. There's an unknown stem there that kinda looks like Java fern, I think its a type of Hygrophilla. Background is Helanthium tenellum. Midground consists of Anubias nana, Cryptocoryne wendtii (I think) and Riccia. Haven't chosen a foreground yet, either let the Riccia cover it, or plant glosso/hairgrass. Moss on the driftwood is Xmas moss. 

By the books


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## flygja (13 May 2011)

Hey guys! Have been busy and lazy to update this post. 

So here's how it looks 3 weeks on. I've trimmed the stems once after 2 weeks.




Decided to use Jap hairgrass as my foreground since I had some growing emersed. They're looking quite tall at the moment after being grown immersed for some reason.




Added some US Fissidens too. First time for me.




A look at the stems behind. Rotala nanjenshan tops are turning pink. The stem on the left of it I thought was Rotala rotundifolia Red, but its different. Looks like a Limnophilla or Ludwigia. Will take a better picture later. Also, I still don't know what the fern-like stem is. Some type of Hygrophilla corymbosa I think.




Xmas moss is growing well after I fixed my dodgy chiller issues.




Ahh... how I miss pearling. Previous 2 scapes didn't pearl at all!


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## bonelez (13 May 2011)

Congrats flygja! A true Nature Aquarium)

What kind of wood are you using for this scape? It is pretty cool.

As to the hygrophila...it might be hygrophila angustifolia. It grows  quite fast and the lieves turn a bit long )

Cheers!


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## flygja (14 May 2011)

Thanks bonelez. I'm not sure what type of wood it is. Its one of the most common types of driftwood here in Malaysia.


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## Mark Evans (14 May 2011)

This looks great mate.

The fern like stem, could be maybe stellata of some kind? or i might be looking at the wrong plant.


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## flygja (15 May 2011)

Thanks Mark. I'm pretty sure its not Pogostemon stellata. Unless theres another type of stellata?

Currently away from home for 4 days.. gives me the worries. Fattened up the fish before i left and double checked the equipment. Still worried...


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## Mark Evans (15 May 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> Currently away from home for 4 days.. gives me the worries. Fattened up the fish before i left and double checked the equipment. Still worried...



That always makes me nervous to, but raise the light physically, if you can. Reduce the period also. % hours a day does me.


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## flygja (19 May 2011)

Came back after 4 days and phew.. nothing bad happened. Aoart from a few spots of GSA. Rotala nanjenshan had reached the water's surface. Real fast grower that one. Hairgrass has started spreading too. Overall a happy camper. More pics this weekend as I've been busy with a customer visit.


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## flygja (23 Jun 2011)

A short update   




So I was thinking of getting rid of the Riccia as it was getting painful trimming it weekly and getting rid of all the trimmings. I must've hurt its feelings because it committed suicide a few days later. Didn't just dislodge itself, but it was actually melting. I can make Riccia melt! What is probably the easiest plant to grow...   




So I removed it and replaced the area with some US Fissidens. I was under the impression its an extremely slow grower but seems ok to me.




Check out my Rotala nanjenshan. Both green and pink stems next to each other? Weird!




Two random shots of its inhabitants.







And finally a full tank shot. Testing with a blue background.




If I just pour some soil on top of the Helanthium tennellum, will it creep over the soil too? Wanna raise the back a bit but am totally unwilling to pull out the tennellum and replant.


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## flygja (23 Jun 2011)

A short update   




So I was thinking of getting rid of the Riccia as it was getting painful trimming it weekly and getting rid of all the trimmings. I must've hurt its feelings because it committed suicide a few days later. Didn't just dislodge itself, but it was actually melting. I can make Riccia melt! What is probably the easiest plant to grow...   




So I removed it and replaced the area with some US Fissidens. I was under the impression its an extremely slow grower but seems ok to me.




Check out my Rotala nanjenshan. Both green and pink stems next to each other? Weird!




Two random shots of its inhabitants.







And finally a full tank shot. Testing with a blue background.




If I just pour some soil on top of the Helanthium tennellum, will it creep over the soil too? Wanna raise the back a bit but am totally unwilling to pull out the tennellum and replant.


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## flygja (25 Jun 2011)

I've just realised that I double-posted my previous post. Tried to delete it but failed? If the mods could remove it for me, I'd be most appreciative.

So I've decided to test LED light penetration at 60cm from the substrate. Added optics to my LEDs. These are 60 degree ones.







Penetration is OK, but it has created a lot more shadows and side effects. There are actually shadows of the Rotala nanjenshan on the Anubias barteri var nana. The drifwood is also casting bigger shadows. We'll see if ok in the long run.

Due to lack of maintenance, my ceramic balls have turned into ceramic quail eggs! Is it still usable? I tried bleaching them but it didn't remove the brownish discoloration.


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## Mark Evans (25 Jun 2011)

That looks stunning. I-phone post


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## flygja (27 Jun 2011)

Thanks Mark!


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## Gabika (27 Jun 2011)

It's very nice  
What tipe of leds you use?
CREE Leds?


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## flygja (27 Jun 2011)

Hi Gabika, yes I use 3W Cree XR-E LEDs in the Q2 bin.


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## viktorlantos (27 Jun 2011)

Looks very good. The full tank shot looks awesome. I do not have a problem with dark shadows. I can live with that


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## Zerocon (27 Jun 2011)

Man, I love it! I really think it's mostly epic because of the moss and wood combo. Great stuff!


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## Zerocon (27 Jun 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> A short update
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> 
> ...


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## Bobtastic (27 Jun 2011)

Zerocon said:
			
		

> flygja said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is an awesome picture! and one of the reasons why I couldnt have an open topped tank!


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## flygja (28 Jun 2011)

Thanks for the excellent comments all   

Trippy doesn't drink from her water bowl anymore. Luckily she doesn't go for my fish or shrimps. She just watches them. They've even gotten used to her and don't hide anymore when she shows up.

Viktor, visually I have no problems with shadows. I'm more afraid of plants not getting enough light. Things are still looking good at the moment.   

I've just had a major trim and its positively bald right now!


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## Bobtastic (28 Jun 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> Luckily she doesn't go for my fish or shrimps. She just watches them. They've even gotten used to her and don't hide anymore when she shows up.


I thought all ginger cats were male?

EDIT: Seems she in a minority, as 75% of ginger cats are male! (unconfirmed statistic)
Sorry for the off topic comment.


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## flygja (29 Jun 2011)

My cat is a stray, so she's probably not a regular statistic  Found her at the carpark of my apartment block mew-ing away for 2 days. Her left rear leg was broken at the knee and she was missing her tail. My wife decided to save her and 3 years later, we can't imagine life without her


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## flygja (2 Aug 2011)

Guess what? I found someone with a PAR meter who was willing to lend it to me! The person has asked me not to reveal his identity so I can only show some results instead   

About 1 inch from an LED and it reads




Massive!!

But once we reach the water's surface (still in air)



Dropped quite a bit.

And just below the water's surface



Dropped some more.

At this level, Ludwigia inclinata verticillata var Cuba is starting to turn a bit red in the veins. 



That is quite a lot of PAR.

Here's where Ludwigia brevipes is starting to turn orangish.




Right in front of the glass.



Quite a lot of PAR! Too much I think, Tom Barr measured a tank with a full HC carpet and it only had about 50 umols

At the front too but on the right side where the hairgrass is growing much nicer and thicker.



Only 2/3rds of the PAR in the middle. Lush hairgrass might have to do with better CO2 distribution perhaps.

At the back, middle height..



So low! Now this I didn't expect. Now I know why the stems behind were slower than the ones in the middle. As a result of this, I have raised my lighting by another 10cm to get a better spread. PAR reading around 90 umols with the substrate still around 90 umols. Will try this configuration and see.

I've always had this feeling the soil is really low on nutrients, so I got some Osmocote.




And turned them into root tabs. Inserted 4 of them around the stems, let's see what happens in the next few weeks.


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## faizal (2 Aug 2011)

Hey Flygja,...I think the reason the PAR is higher near the glass there is probably due to the reflection of the light by the inner surface of the aquarium glass. I get similar readings in my tank. Lowest PAR being right at the centre of the tank halfway between the substrate & water surface,...probably due to the least amount of light being reflected off the aquarium glass. 

Nice one Flygja


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## Gary Nelson (2 Aug 2011)

A very nice display and great pics too


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## Antoni (2 Aug 2011)

Great journal and info provided!

Could you please let us know,where did you get these empty capsules for the tablets with osmocote?


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## flygja (3 Aug 2011)

faizal said:
			
		

> Hey Flygja,...I think the reason the PAR is higher near the glass there is probably due to the reflection of the light by the inner surface of the aquarium glass. I get similar readings in my tank. Lowest PAR being right at the centre of the tank halfway between the substrate & water surface,...probably due to the least amount of light being reflected off the aquarium glass.
> 
> Nice one Flygja



Yeah, I think thats the case too, based on comparisons with that PAR youtube video which I have conveniently forgotten to bookmark again and again. Hahah. 

Thanks Gary for the kind comments.

Antoni, I live in Malaysia and I got it from a traditional chinese medicine shop where they usually pack their own supplements using ground herbs. You could also get it from eBay. http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_ ... Categories. Don't forget to think of an excuse to tell your parents/friends/girlfriend/the cops that you're not starting your own drug business


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## Bobtastic (3 Aug 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> faizal said:
> 
> 
> 
> > Don't forget to think of an excuse to tell your parents/friends/girlfriend/the cops that you're not starting your own drug business



They're for my plants Narc! You've got nothing on me!


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## Antoni (5 Aug 2011)

Hah, thank you! I will try to be very convincing


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## flygja (14 Aug 2011)

I've been a bit busy lately, so finally got down to providing a short photo update before and after a trim. Here it is before:




The dreaded BGA is back. Smaller amounts this time thankfully, which were manually removed.




And here is the after shot:




You may have noticed the triangular ruler in the corner. I bought 6 purple harlequins and 1 of them jumped barely an hour after being put into the tank. Someone told me they were jumpers but I really wasn't expecting it so quick. So I remembered Amano's trianglular ruler thing here and placed one there. No jumpers for 2 days! Weird, but it seems to work.   




Had to remove a lot of Anubias leaves as they had GSA on them. Didn't even remove all of them, just the most badly affected ones. I really dislike trimming my beautiful Anubias.




Feeding time...




Uninvited guests showing up! I love Neon tetras, they seem to hunt around for food rather than just grab from the surface during feeding time.


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## faizal (15 Aug 2011)

Nice ,...nice tank buddy!!!   

Your fissidens looks really healthy too. Mine started having some goey greenish stuff over it after a few days,...so I removed them , washed them under running tap water & placed them in a tray sort of half emersed & now their are looking great.   

I am beginning to think that they need really good flow & over their leaves to do well. Do you have a chiller Flygja?

Really nice tank there.


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## flygja (16 Aug 2011)

Thanks Faizal.

Does the gooey greenish stuff smell bad? If it does, then its probably BGA - theoretically bacteria and not algae. Not sure about Fissidens and flow. There are some Fissidens on the left side of my tank which sits in probably the lowest flow in the whole tank. They seem to be doing well too. Yes, I have a chiller to keep the water between 26-27deg.


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## faizal (16 Aug 2011)

I really don't know what it was. It wasn't smelly though. Anyways I had removed all my mosses because I didn't want to risk it then. The rest of the stems are doing well,...I might give mosses a try later when I am a bit more confident.


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## flygja (26 Aug 2011)

Triangular ruler failed. The rest of the purple harlequins have all jumped and met their doom on cold hard tiles


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## Gary Nelson (26 Aug 2011)

Fantastic photo's - what is the plant/moss on the wood in the second pic?


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## spyder (26 Aug 2011)

viper3770 said:
			
		

> Fantastic photo's - what is the plant/moss on the wood in the second pic?








Fissidens Fontanus.


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## Garuf (26 Aug 2011)

That last pictures amazing, shame about the BGA though. :/


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## flygja (27 Aug 2011)

Thanks spyder, its Fissidens fontanus or US Fissidens alright. You can also see how hairgrass burrows itself quite deep. Is it just Jap hairgrass that does this? Could explain why they grow short on the surface.


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## flygja (5 Sep 2011)

Spent some time over the weekend to re-build my LED luminaire. While the previous one was sufficient, I felt that I wasn't getting enough light spread, especially over the back where the stems need it the most. So I got myself some aluminium bits and changed it from 2 rows of 6 LEDs to 3 rows of 5 LEDs. It's also running without a fan right now with only the aluminium pieces dissipating heat. So far so good. The luminaire gets hot to the touch but not too hot I think.












Borrowed 2 Apache gunships from a friend of mine to get rid of the snails.




This fella seems to be getting into it barely 5 mins in the tank. 




Continuing to cultivate some more mini pelia. Seriously slow buggers...




And I really wonder why the hairgrass right at the front in the center just isn't carpeting. It's been 3 months! I don't think light is an issue, since there's massive amounts there. Flow probably isn't too because I can see bubbles floating past it.


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## fandango (28 Sep 2011)

This is such a nice and informative journal. How is the tank doing now?
regards,
fandango


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## flygja (10 Oct 2011)

Hi, thanks for the interest. It's been getting away from me at the moment. It went without a water change for about 3 weeks due to other commitments and a combination of BGA, GSA and BBA has formed all over. So far I've beaten back the BBA but GSA and BGA remain stubborn.

Here's what it looks like at the moment.





I've replaced the stems from Ludwigia brevipes to one I've been searching for a while - Limnophila aromatica. I've also stripped off all the moss off branches I can remove from the tank and tied back a few strands. Must keep on top of trimming with mosses or they'll just look bad.

Also trying to cultivate some mini pelia aka Riccardia chamedryfolia




That said... a few design decisions made early on are starting to bite me in the back. Positioning the hardscape too near the front glass. Too little soil to hold up the driftwood. Getting just a little bit annoyed at it. Might rescape soon. Knowing my slowness and multitude of changes in a scape, I need to start preparing for 2012's contests!


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## clonitza (10 Oct 2011)

Issues or not the tank look very nice.  It's a keeper if you have other one to scape for the contests.

Mike


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## flygja (11 Oct 2011)

Thanks for the comments Mike. I do have another 300L I'm setting up, but its going to try its very best to be a low maintenance scape for discus. Not a competition tank. This would be my only competition tank. I just realised that I would probably need the driftwood in this tank to go into that tank


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