# water loss from bubble counter



## billy boy (18 Oct 2008)

Hi
I am loseing about 5ml of water from the counter a week, sometimes more with NO signs of a leak    Is it simply evaporation, or does some of the water get pushed into the diffuser? should i add another check valve between the counter and the diffuser, I just have the one valve between the soleniod and the counter.
btw its a glass counter i have.
thanks billy boy


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## chump54 (18 Oct 2008)

hi 
i've had a similar thing... the water from the bubble counter was drawn back up towards the regulator. The water was being forced out of the non return valve. don't know what happen to the drips but they didn't seem to make to the floor???  :? this was a cheap return valve and was only about 10cm from the counter. I replaced it with a brass one from AE and moved it to about 20cm from the counter. Only did this a week ago but seems to have improved things... also stabilized the bubble rate which was slowly dropping throughout the photo period.

cheers
C


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## JamesM (20 Oct 2008)

billy boy said:
			
		

> Hi
> I am loseing about 5ml of water from the counter a week, sometimes more with NO signs of a leak    Is it simply evaporation, or does some of the water get pushed into the diffuser? should i add another check valve between the counter and the diffuser, I just have the one valve between the soleniod and the counter.
> btw its a glass counter i have.
> thanks billy boy


What bubble counter? 

I had the same issue with an Aquatic Magic reg/solenoid with a JBJ bubble counter. Best thing I did was bin it.


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## Egmel (21 Oct 2008)

billy boy said:
			
		

> btw its a glass counter i have.


One of these?



Mine always used to drain when the pressure dropped on my DIY CO2, I'm guessing it'd do the same if you turn the CO2 off at night.  Although pretty I'm not sure they're the most practical of tools, I've ordered a new one (see below) for my new system - less pretty but more practical.


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## billy boy (21 Oct 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> billy boy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The bubble counter is what came with the hydor advanced,i bought a few years ago, If you binned your one, how do you count your bps now?


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## JamesM (21 Oct 2008)

I replaced it with a different type, like posted above, this one: http://www.lunapet.net/bilder/co2_blase ... er_230.jpg


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## billy boy (21 Oct 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> I replaced it with a different type, like posted above, this one: http://www.lunapet.net/bilder/co2_blase ... er_230.jpg



Cheers will send of for one of those, looked on ebay but AE do one the same for not much more money


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## LondonDragon (21 Oct 2008)

billy boy said:
			
		

> The bubble counter is what came with the hydor advanced,i bought a few years ago, If you binned your one, how do you count your bps now?


I also purchased the Hydor system a while back, the bubble counter broke in the first day I used it lol cheap plastic thing that couldn't handle the pressure, so that explains it


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## keymaker (21 Oct 2008)

I had the same water loss issue with my old equipment at night. I originally bought the Dennerle Crystal Line series stuff with the red check valve from the photo on Egmel's post. The Dennerle customer service from Germany admitted that they had problems with some(!) of their glass check valves as they are made by hand and small imperfections can cause leaking...

So I replaced the check valve to a Dennerle Profi Line series (black plastic one). No change - water still escaped from the BC.

I then replaced all the CO2 black hosing to clear hose from AE and bought another bubble counter --- and voila: no more water loss. At all. It runs stable without any problems for about two months now.

I suspect that I had a small leak somewhere on the hose between the bubble counter and the solenoid valve. You might have the same problem. It is almost impossible to loose water that fast by simple evaporation towards the tank.

So it is one of the two: a leak somewhere or a faulty check valve.


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## juwelfan (30 Oct 2008)

So have we concluded that most issues with water loss / water draw back are caused by a faulty bubble counter or non return valve?

I have the JBL u402 with the JBL ProFlora SafeStop non-return valve. My bubble counter (BC) is having water sucked out back toward the CO2 Solenoid/regulator. Therefore the non return valve (N-R V) which is between the diffuser in the tank and the 'CO2 out' of the BC could not be at fault. So I have ruled it out. Should the N-R V be placed between the CO2 Solenoid/regulator and the 'CO2 in' of the BC? ???

I will try this and report back with my findings. 

At first glance it appear the CO2 pressure builds up somewhere between the CO2 Solenoid/regulator and the 'CO2 in' of the BC,  then I get 3 bubble in quick succession rather than 3 bubble with equal spacing. Is this a factor of the way the JBL N-R V is constructed?


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## Egmel (30 Oct 2008)

juwelfan said:
			
		

> Should the N-R V be placed between the CO2 Solenoid/regulator and the 'CO2 in' of the BC?


Personally I would put the check valve between any liquid (ie your bubble counter) and your solenoid/reg.

So I would have it...
regulator->needle valve->solenoid->non-return-valve->bubble counter->diffuser/reactor.

I think it depends on your equipment though as some bits come in set orders so you can't alter it.

If you have the glass bubble counter as shown in the posts above then you definitely need the NRV to be on its inlet side.


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## Ed Seeley (31 Oct 2008)

I agree with Egmel completely.  Got to have a NRV ahead of any liquids.

On the issue of water loss I have two of the brass bubble counters that are alleged to leak a lot and they have been fine, but they do lose water!  Not into the reg, or leaking out but evaporating as the bubbles go through.  I know this was the cause as the two bubble counters are being fed from the one reg and have two different bubble rates.  One is about twice as quick as the other and the water loss matches that exactly!  Personally I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of 'leaking' bubble counters are simply losing water through evaporation...


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## juwelfan (31 Oct 2008)

Egmel said:
			
		

> juwelfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> > Should the N-R V be placed between the CO2 Solenoid/regulator and the 'CO2 in' of the BC?


Personally I would put the check valve between any liquid (ie your bubble counter) and your solenoid/reg.
So I would have it...
regulator->needle valve->solenoid->non-return-valve->bubble counter->diffuser/reactor.
quote]

Thank you for your help. Yes, this alteration has solved the loss of water problem. So i'm guessing the diagram in the JBL manual could do with a change. So it is ->non-return-valve->bubble counter->diffuser!!


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## GreenNeedle (31 Oct 2008)

Thats the order I have mine as I have the needle valve screwed direct into the reg and then the solenoid inline then NRV with about 3cm of hose to the bubble counter and then onto the diffusor via a glass J pipe.

There is some water loss from the BC but not much.  I have the same glass combo asthe earlier picture.  Been using for nearly 2 years with no probs.

AC


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## billy boy (31 Oct 2008)

Found the cause of my water leak, a faulty nrv, which i replaced with a brass one and also got a new bubble counter, But i have now noticed a reduction in my bps    thought it would be down to my solenoid because of the water but bypassed the valve and still the same!

 The water must of reached the gauges   will i be able to dry out the gauges or would the water 
have caused any permanent damage to the needle valve?


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