# Is this due to lack of C02 or Potassium or Lighting?



## Zak Rafik (7 Oct 2014)

Hi
I would like to find out what is causing the leaves to drop off at the lower end of my Limnophila aromatica 'hippuroides' plant. I have taken some photos yesterday. I had shown this photos to a few guys and they say it due to either lack of light or potassium.

I had posted in the forum a few months back when I started my tank about my foreground and carpet plants melting. ceg4048 (Clive) had mentioned that it was due to poor Co2 and flow in the tank. I had followed his valuable advice and now the plants are doing great.

Apart from Limnophila aromatica 'hippuroides' plant, shedding it leaves near to the substrate as shown in the photo, all the other plants are doing very well. 
I'm now forced to do heavy plant trimming on alternate weeks to keep the demand for Co2 in check.

*I have taken a ph reading using a ph pen today for Co2. Is the level of Co2 sufficient in my tank?*

I had bought this morning some DRY Potassium Sulphate(K2SO4) at 98% pure grade. 
It say to use 2 grams of K2SO4 for every 100 litres of water.
*So much total grams do I dose for my 255 litres of tank water for 3 times a week* ( now dosing EI with 50% PWC) for optimum level?

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/PHprofilereading_zps50aeddd4.png
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_7834_zps67becf8a.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_7833_zps146e73d0.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_7832_zpsf26e3f8f.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_7831_zps888e53e2.jpg

Currently I dosing EI as shown in the photo below but instead of dry Potassium Nitrate, I'm using liquid form. 
I use 84 ml of this liquid and mix with the other dry salts to prepare a 500ml stock solution.
(Please see photos below for details)

My photo period using LED lights is total 6 hours ( although my tank is now more than 80 days old).
3 hours full brightness and 3 hours with 50% brightness.
*Can increasing the photo period ( meaning more of full brightness ) help witht eh shedding?*

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums...4-7289-4EE1-BB10-6615E5F8CD3F_zpsjcqcqzaq.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/photo1_zpsb880f267.jpg
http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums...7-8B35-4A47-8C2B-E79A40AC97B7_zpsvscdry8y.jpg

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/carpet-plant-and-mid-ground-plants-melting-kindly-advice.34009/

Cheers
Raffik


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## darren636 (7 Oct 2014)

Co2 distribution


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## Zak Rafik (7 Oct 2014)

darren636 said:


> Co2 distribution



Can you be more specific? And how does one go about doing it. 

I'm running a Eheim 2080 and a Eheim 2078 along with a Powder head pump. The plants are now already having too much movement from all three. 

Cheers


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## Martin in Holland (8 Oct 2014)

It looks like the plants that are having this problem in your tank are placed all the way at the back of the tank. Those places are always difficult to get enough flow around the bottom of the plants as other plants or hard scape material often blocking it.
I am currently using a small submersed pump with a spray bar pointing upwards all the way at the back of my tank, this seems to help.


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## Zak Rafik (8 Oct 2014)

Martin in China said:


> It looks like the plants that are having this problem in your tank are placed all the way at the back of the tank. Those places are always difficult to get enough flow around the bottom of the plants as other plants or hard scape material often blocking it.
> I am currently using a small submersed pump with a spray bar pointing upwards all the way at the back of my tank, this seems to help.



Hi Martin,
Thanks for the tip.
But I can't seem to understand your setup. If you don't mind taking a photo of the setup. It would be most useful for me.
So this is not due to lack of light or Potassium?

Just one more thing. I had taken a ph profile reading as you can see in the above photo. Is my Co2 level sufficient? 
I have no clue on how to read this data but this profile reading seems to be highly recommended to gauge Co2 level. So far nobody has commented on this.

Thank you so much
Raffik


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## Martin in Holland (8 Oct 2014)

Zak Rafik said:


> So this is not due to lack of light or Potassium?


I don't think it is light or Potassium, your plants have some red coloring which indicates that there is enough light and melting is usually caused by lack of CO2 and/or distribution. 
I've noticed that you trim your Limnophila and let the regrow, maybe it's better to get them out, cut the lower part off and replant (this works really well for me)



 

I will try to take a picture of the pump/spray bar setup I mentioned and post it.


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## Edvet (8 Oct 2014)

CO2 drop could be enough, but is depending on KH value (low KH you'll need a bigger drop).
But i agree distribution ( getting the flow nice and even across the whole tank) is probably the cause. In my large tank that was a problem, if i would go high tech again i would make a large spraybar over the whole length of the tank and adjust the holes to have a nice big gentle current circling through the tank.


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## Zak Rafik (8 Oct 2014)

Martin in China said:


> I don't think it is light or Potassium, your plants have some red coloring which indicates that there is enough light and melting is usually caused by lack of CO2 and/or distribution.
> I've noticed that you trim your Limnophila and let the regrow, maybe it's better to get them out, cut the lower part off and replant (this works really well for me)
> 
> I will try to take a picture of the pump/spray bar setup I mentioned and post it.



Hi, Martin,
Is that photo from your tank. Fantastic. Mine used to look very similar to this a few weeks ago. But sadly now not so much.
Anyway I'll be waiting for your photos of your spray bar setup. Thanks.


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## Zak Rafik (8 Oct 2014)

Edvet said:


> CO2 drop could be enough, but is depending on KH value (low KH you'll need a bigger drop).
> But i agree distribution ( getting the flow nice and even across the whole tank) is probably the cause. In my large tank that was a problem, if i would go high tech again i would make a large spraybar over the whole length of the tank and adjust the holes to have a nice big gentle current circling through the tank.



Hi Edvet
The last time I measured with an API kit, it was around 5



Edvet said:


> But i agree distribution ( getting the flow nice and even across the whole tank) is probably the cause.


I checked my filter just now and I found the the flow indicator in my Eheim 2080 canister had dropped from it usual position. The filter was started only about 45 days back. My fish count is hardly anything ( only about 6 algae eaters for a 4 ft tank!!)
I don't now what could have caused the sudden drop in flow through the canister. I'll be opening it tonight and maybe clean it.
The below photo taken today shows the drop.

And also I have see many many heavily planted tanks with lush and healthy plants. But I also notice that they don't have spray bars but lily pipes. I have read so many threads here where lily ipe are strongly discouraged due to poor flow in the tank. 
So how do these tanks with so much hardscape / tall plants manage to have water and Co2 flow throughout the tank?
As you can see all the plants are healthy.

I hope members here can enlighten me. Thanks.

http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/IMG_7840_zps24912eb0.jpg
Apologize for the typo error in photo.



http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b631/Zak_Rafik/sample-tank_zpsc5250d03.jpg


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## Martin in Holland (8 Oct 2014)

Don't believe the photo of those tanks, most people take their spray bars, lily pipes, wave makers and so on out of the tank before taking a picture of it.
Your filter could be full with plant material, if you clean it, only clean out the first filter but leave the rest intact. Maybe place a pre-filter over the inlet for the time being to keep your filter free from plant material.


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## Edvet (8 Oct 2014)

I think getting a good flow is one of the difficult things in a tank ( the larger the more difficult), followed by getting plenty CO2. Providing enough ferts is easy, providing to much light is double easy. The lower the KH the larger the drop you'll need to see. At KH 5 1,5 drop should be about what you need. Could you start with the 50% and go to 100% later?.


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## Zak Rafik (8 Oct 2014)

Martin in China said:


> Don't believe the photo of those tanks, most people take their spray bars, lily pipes, wave makers and so on out of the tank before taking a picture of it.
> Your filter could be full with plant material, if you clean it, only clean out the first filter but leave the rest intact. Maybe place a pre-filter over the inlet for the time being to keep your filter free from plant material.



Hi Martin,
Yes you'r right. I did check the filter just now. The filter media was clean and so was the water. But the pre filter were totally blocked. I'm quite surprised by this. The filter has been in action for about 45 only and the pre filter have slowed down the huge entire canister. After I replaced the pre-filter, the flow indicator has gone back to its original full strenght. The flow in the tank has picked up.
BTW I noticed some whitish / greyish thick slime on the rubber on the gaskets in the canister. It that fungus or bacteria build up?

Hi Edvet,


Edvet said:


> I think getting a good flow is one of the difficult things in a tank ( the larger the more difficult), followed by getting plenty CO2.


Amen to that!



Edvet said:


> Could you start with the 50% and go to 100% later?.


Yes it can be done but how is that going to help the plants? Is it to let the tank build up more Co2?
I'll try this tomorrow.

Thanks.


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## Martin in Holland (8 Oct 2014)

This is the small pump with spray bar as mentioned before, it is placed all the way at the back as low as possible, meanwhile the spray bar is facing up. I just replaced some plants in that corner, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it....I hope this will help.


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## Zak Rafik (8 Oct 2014)

Martin in China said:


> This is the small pump with spray bar as mentioned before, it is placed all the way at the back as low as possible, meanwhile the spray bar is facing up. I just replaced some plants in that corner, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it....I hope this will help.



Thank for the photo. I have never seen such a setup before. With the spray bar nozzles pointed upwards this creats a upward flow from the bottom?


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## Bhu (8 Oct 2014)

Zak Rafik said:


> BTW I noticed some whitish / greyish thick slime on the rubber on the gaskets in the canister. It that fungus or bacteria build up?



Could it be Vaseline? Or what ever the original maker added to help seal the filter?


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