# Making trace mix for hard water



## Paul Willi (18 May 2020)

Hi,
I’ve been using APF chelated trace elements and live in a hard water area, I have read that it’s better to use fe dtpa with hard water. Can I mix my the APF trace and my new FE DTPA together when I make up my next bottle of micro fert. If I can what should I put in? I have been using a 500ml bottle and adding 2 tsp trace. 
thanks
Paul


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## Wookii (21 May 2020)

I had similar issues with iron and hard water. I bought bottle of TNC Iron AT with is DTPA chelated. As I use an auto-doser I just added the TNC Iron to my APFUK micro mix container and then just increased the bi-daily micro dose to add the additional required DPTA iron.


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## EA James (21 May 2020)

@Zeus. is your man for the answer, he also has hard water 👍


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## Sammy Islam (21 May 2020)

I use both DTPA and EDDHA FE in my micro mix as EDTA is unavailable because my PH does not drop below PH7. The DTPA also becomes unavailable in my tank the next day as it gets broken down by light during the photo-period and my PH goes above 7.5 when degassed. So the EDDHA helps a lot by keeping FE avaiable on days micros are not dosed - only downside is the tank appears slightly pink. It isn't that noticeable when viewing from the front, but more noticeable wheb viewing through the side.


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## hypnogogia (21 May 2020)

Depending which way your fish look, they have rose tinted spectacles!


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## Zeus. (21 May 2020)

Hi Paul

what is the size off your tank?

Zeus


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## Paul Willi (21 May 2020)

Hi Zeus
125 l 🍻


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## Angelfishguy99 (21 May 2020)

Sorry to hijack your thread @Paul Willi but i also have hard water and am using the APFUK starter kit that has the chelated trace elements which contains Fe 8.2% (EDTA Chelated) . Should i be using another source of Fe @Zeus. ?


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## Zeus. (21 May 2020)

Angelfishguy99 said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread @Paul Willi but i also have hard water and am using the APFUK starter kit that has the chelated trace elements which contains Fe 8.2% (EDTA Chelated) . Should i be using another source of Fe @Zeus. ?



Well what do your plants tell you are they vibrant and healthy? if so NO. If you have hard or very hard water then Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA might be worth a try, esp if your plants appear Fe deficient. Post your water report (you can get it online from your water supply company)
That will give us more information for free 
some more tank info would help too.



Angelfishguy99 said:


> Sorry to hijack your thread



But your on topic 🕺💃


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## Paul Willi (21 May 2020)

125l 6 hours light 2x28t5 no reflectors, gravel with root tabs, 2x ex filters. 3ml easy carbo with lights on, was dosing ferts as per APF for Ei Premixing 500ml, 25ml daily 3/3 but have since doubled as plants dying back. Started seeing new growth  since upping. 50% weekly wc  plants mainly crypts .  the fe Dtpa is 8% chelated


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## Angelfishguy99 (21 May 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Post your water report


Not sure if this is what you are looking for.

Set up about 7 weeks ago

*Aquarium: *Roma 125 80x35x50
*Filter: *Betta 2000 external
*Lighting: *Chihiros A801
*Co2: *15kg Cylinder with inline diffuser
*Substrate: *Tropica soil 18l and Tropica powder 9l
*Ferts: *EI from APFUK

70% water changes 2 times a week

Tapwater results (used with 6in1 test strip)
GH 8
KH 20
PH 7.4

Plants seemed to be doing fine until about 2 weeks ago. Lots of diatoms which i know is to be expected. Surface film has appeared in the past week.  Limnophila Aromatica has some green growth but seems a little bit pale. Alternanthera Reineckii 'Mini seems more brown than red/pink. Lights on for 6 hours, co2 on 2 hours before that. Drop checker lime green in all parts of the aquarium.


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## dw1305 (22 May 2020)

Hi all





Angelfishguy99 said:


> Not sure if this is what you are looking for............
> Tapwater results (used with 6in1 test strip)
> GH 8
> KH 20
> PH 7.4


Can you get figures from your <"tap water supplier?"> They will be accurate, and give minimum and maximum values etc. 

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (22 May 2020)

Paul Willi said:


> 125l 6 hours light 2x28t5 no reflectors, gravel with root tabs, 2x ex filters. 3ml easy carbo with lights on, was dosing ferts as per APF for Ei Premixing 500ml, 25ml daily 3/3 but have since doubled as plants dying back. Started seeing new growth  since upping. 50% weekly wc  plants mainly crypts .  the fe Dtpa is 8% chelated



you tap water fluctuates quite a bit over the year







with a average off





So it probably doesnt need the Fe DTPA all year round. A breakdown of when they tested would inform when it is needed, they will supply it if you ask

your present dose of APFUK Trace is a little high IMO










I would just add one teaspoon (5g)per 500ml

As for Fe 8% DTPA about 5grams and 5grams of APFUK trace in 500ml , 25ml a dose in 125litre tank- yields







Keep it in dark place as FeDTPA is very light sensitive, I even have light blocked out of tubing on my auto doser (cool place as well)

also noticed your tap water nitrate fluctuates quite a bit over the year

(the results above are from the preleased V1.9 fert calculator - so check your ppm the normal way)



Angelfishguy99 said:


> Tapwater results (used with 6in1 test strip)
> GH 8
> KH 20
> PH 7.4



Like Darrel says water report downloaded much more accurate and free  just google it and it goes of your postcode


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## Angelfishguy99 (22 May 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Can you get figures from your <"tap water supplier?"> They will be accurate, and give minimum and maximum values etc.





Zeus. said:


> Like Darrel says water report downloaded much more accurate



 Sorry i forgot to add the link  
Water results


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## Zeus. (22 May 2020)

Angelfishguy99 said:


> Sorry i forgot to add the link



Link wont work as we dont have your postcode, if you give us a postcode similar to your we can get the report without invading your privacy, just check it links to same report


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## Angelfishguy99 (22 May 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Link wont work as we dont have your postcode, if you give us a postcode similar to your we can get the report without invading your privacy, just check it links to same report


 Oh sorry. Postcode is y35ev91

Think once you enter that in you have to scroll down to "view detailed report"


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## Zeus. (22 May 2020)

Angelfishguy99 said:


> Oh sorry. Postcode is y35ev91
> 
> Think once you enter that in you have to scroll down to "view detailed report"



Well it doesn't give the results in great detail and no mention of Ca and Mg levels 

Nitrate levels vary slightly 3-1ppm (mg/l) NO3
Floridle  levels not bad for your teeth  0.7ppm F.


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## Angelfishguy99 (22 May 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Well it doesn't give the results in great detail


Why doesnt that surprise me, typical Ireland


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## dw1305 (22 May 2020)

Hi all, 





Zeus. said:


> Well it doesn't give the results in great detail and no mention of Ca and Mg levels


Not  very useful, but it gives you a conductivity value, ~650 microS, so almost certainly hard water, where both the dKH/dGH comes from CaCO3.

cheers Darrel


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## Angelfishguy99 (22 May 2020)

So do yous think myself and Paul should add FE DTPA to our APFUK Chelated Trace Elements mix?

Also @Paul Willi is there any particular reason why you add 2 tsp of the trace elements instead of the 1tsp that they have on their instructions?


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## Paul Willi (22 May 2020)

Thanks a lot Zeus well appreciated 👍🍻


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## Paul Willi (22 May 2020)

Hi angelfishguy, I upped the dosing as plants were slowly thining out and hardly any new shoots. 👍


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## Paul Willi (22 May 2020)

Zeus, I use Seachem prime with water changes will that help with water tap fluctuating nitrates?


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## Zeus. (22 May 2020)

Angelfishguy99 said:


> So do yous think myself and Paul should add FE DTPA to our APFUK Chelated Trace Elements mix?



Well what I did was to make another solution up and add that as well, Fe DTPA does make the water brownish, so if its a little brown there's excess Fe, then see how plants go and easy to increase or decrease dose, then when you know what you need then add it to the APFUK Trace solution mix. Keep it easy and flexible, dosing the FeDPTA at night is better as less photo degradation when lights off


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## Angelfishguy99 (22 May 2020)

Thanks so much for your help, i really appreciate it.


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## Zeus. (22 May 2020)

Paul Willi said:


> fluctuating nitrates



Nitrates (NO3), No plants will use them and your tap has next to nothing NO3 wise. Prime does touch NO3, good job as we dose it in the Macros or AIO ( All In One) ferts

Nitrites (NO2), Yes prime sorts them out ( I think) @dw1305 !!!, but your water has 0.01 ppm NO2 so its fine, but plants/bacteria sort out NO2 also , just soon because deadly to livestock above a few ppms legal limit is about 1ppm for tap water


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## dw1305 (22 May 2020)

Hi all, 





Zeus. said:


> Prime does touch NO3, good job as we dose it in the Macros or AIO ( All In One) ferts, Nitrites (NO2), Yes prime sorts them out ( I think) @dw1305 !!!,


I think it will bind NO2-. This is the what the <"Seachem Forum"> says:





> .......The dosage you used is plenty to detoxify nitrite. Prime's binding effect is about 48 hrs even for nitrite, so you don't have to dose everyday. One cap is quite enough to take care of any issues with nitrite. It may still show on your test since you have dosed heavily with Prime or if you have tested after the binding effect of Prime .......


Because the Prime just <"basically shuffles the fixed nitrogen into less toxic compounds"> it doesn't remove it and it must become plant available (as NH4+, NO2- or NO3-) at some point.

cheers Darrel


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## Paul Willi (23 May 2020)

Trying to access the fert calculator  link on  Zeus sig, using iPad but not working is it me or do I need to fire up a laptop? 🍻


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## Zeus. (23 May 2020)

Paul Willi said:


> Trying to access the fert calculator link on Zeus sig, using iPad but not working is it me or do I need to fire up a laptop?



Download working here(it was down yesterday due to a tidy up error ), best on PC or laptop ATM IMO. There is an issue with mobiles ATM. But big update release due soon which should sort it plus more features @Hanuman is working on V1.9 ATM and its looking very very cool IMO


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## Paul Willi (23 May 2020)

Sorted cheers Zeus again 👍🍻


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