# Beginners DSM not off to a good start.



## Paul195 (18 Feb 2013)

Hi

My low tech DSM tank hasn't been doing too well so far and I was hoping for some pointers.
The tank is 5ft (193L)

So far..

Soil base with moler clay capping (around 1" of each), planted Eleocharis hair grass. Added dechlorinated water to just below gravel surface.
Started off with 138W of T8 lighting for 16hrs a day. Lid fitted to tank but not air tight. Was spraying twice a day (7-10 sprays). Humidity min 45% max 80%. Avg 55-60%. 8 days pass. Small amounts of (what I think is) BGA on substrate and some mouldy grass.
Eleocharis grass died as shown in this thread.
Trimmed all dead grass off (most now 2 - 12mm above substrate). Covered tank well with plastic wrap and continued as before. Humidity now min 60% max 90% Avg 75%. 2 days pass. Grass showing some signs of growth (a few blades shooting up here and there). BGA had developed and spreaded some more.
Reduced light to 12 hrs. Reduced spraying to once every other day (5-6 sprays). 6 days pass.
BGA now spreading fast (2 weeks 2 days):









I have been told that I should try and keep the humidity up to 90% and that is probably why my hair grass died. How do I do this? my hygrometer is inside the tank with the plastic wrap over, avg is around 75%. Is there something else I should be doing to keep the humidity up?

Then the more worrying issue for me is how to deal with the fast developing BGA?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Cheers

Paul


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## dw1305 (19 Feb 2013)

Hi all,


Paul195 said:


> How do I do this? my hygrometer is inside the tank with the plastic wrap over, avg is around 75%. Is there something else I should be doing to keep the humidity up?


The new_ Eleocharis_ (Hair-grass) leaves look fine, I wouldn't worry about trying to get the humidity any higher.


Paul195 said:


> Then the more worrying issue for me is how to deal with the fast developing BGA?


Ignore it would be my suggestion.

I've never tried this, but you could try adding enough water so that you can syphon the BGA off the substrate? and then syphon out the "spare water"  to leave the water level just below the substrate level?

cheers Darrel


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## Paul195 (19 Feb 2013)

> Ignore it would be my suggestion.


 
If I were to ignore the BGA, what are the consequences? I think it will continue to spread as the hair grass grows. I was supposed to leave the hair grass emersed for another 4-6 weeks and I imagine by then it'll all be like a sea of green slime.



> I've never tried this, but you could try adding enough water so that you can syphon the BGA off the substrate? and then syphon out the "spare water" to leave the water level just below the substrate level?


Only thing with this is that I would be a bit worried about syphoning the grass up as i'm not sure its roots would have established too well yet and is only held in by light moler clay. Also would this cause the grass any issues submerging it temporarily?

The other option I have been considering, is to start over (trying to salvage the grass) and retry or even skip the DSM altogether. Perhaps easier for a beginner?

Paul


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## dw1305 (19 Feb 2013)

Hi all,


Paul195 said:


> Also would this cause the grass any issues submerging it temporarily?


No.


Paul195 said:


> Only thing with this is that I would be a bit worried about syphoning the grass up as i'm not sure its roots would have established too well yet and is only held in by light moler clay.


Try pulling a couple up really carefully, that will give you a bit of idea about the root growth. More than you might imagine would be suspicion.

cheers Darrel


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## Paul195 (19 Feb 2013)

Forgive me Darrel, but I'm confused. You said you would ignore the BGA but then in the next line you said it was an idea to try and remove it by syphoning??


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## foxfish (19 Feb 2013)

lower the water level, seal the top & try to get some heat in the tank to get it slightly warmer that the surrounding air outside of the tank...well that is what I would do but I always get nervous advising anything on a forum because someone will come along and say different.
However I have successfully grown numerous set ups doing just that.
I use a under tank heating mat & seal the top, no spraying but very high humidity, in fact you will get condensation forming & even dripping from the glass cover but I have never had an alga issue!


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## Palm Tree (20 Feb 2013)

I think you need to start letting it air out for 10-20+ mins everyday this helps with mold IMO, also reduce the amount of misting as the algae will only grow on moist surfaces. The hairgrass just needed to adapt to your humidity, hence the die back, the new growth should be more resilient.
Regarding skipping the dry start method its up to you, I like DSM because its really low maintenance for me.


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## dw1305 (20 Feb 2013)

Hi all,


Paul195 said:


> You said you would ignore the BGA but then in the next line you said it was an idea to try and remove it by syphoning??


Personally I'd ignore it, I think in these circumstances you will inevitably get some "biofilm" formation on wet surfaces. If conditions are suitable for plant  growth, "algae" will grow as well.

When you flood it the BGA "cyanobacterial mat" will break up and you can just syphon it out, any small bits will end up in the filter. This is one reason I like a sponge pre-filter on the intake, it makes maintenance a lot quicker and easier as all the crud ends up on the pre-filter sponge.As the tank establishes I'd keep filter cleaning intervals small and eventually the BGA will disappear. It is something I only ever get in new set-ups.



foxfish said:


> lower the water level, seal the top & try to get some heat in the tank to get it slightly warmer that the surrounding air outside of the tank...well that is what I would do but I always get nervous advising anything on a forum because someone will come along and say different.


 I think that sounds very good advice. If you lower the water level the Cyanobacteria will still be there in the substrate, but it will be reduced in amount by lower light levels, and it won't be so visible.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (20 Feb 2013)

This is to be perfectly expected when you are "vaporising" your plants with 138W for 16/12hours, which explains why plants are dying and algae has moved in. You need to "read more" (on the articles on this forum) and the consequences of way way way too much light. I would have expected say 50W (or less) for 4 hours (or a little more) initially should be where you are should be starting at and ramping up as plants adapt.


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## Palm Tree (20 Feb 2013)

He is not using too much light, it is a dry start so a lot of the rules don't apply to him really, I have grown hairgrass in full sun on scorching hot days outside last year where the par levels were probably a lot more than 138w of t8 light in a 150cm tank could be.


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## Paul195 (22 Feb 2013)

Would it be worth treating with Maracyn (Eurythromyacin) ? Only hair grass and the algae in there at the mo, so probably the quickest option. I suppose I would need to flood the tank to do this?

Another option to try a blackout for X days although not sure if this will affect the grass negatively. What's reckon?

Paul


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## Paul195 (31 Mar 2013)

The time has come to plant up and fill the aquarium in the next few days, so it's decision time on the algae (which is now much thicker and darker than in the pics here). I've tried to wash a sample of the gravel under the tap which is not shifting it. I had to scrape it off using the tweezers, so tbh I don't think the siphoning method is going to work.

I can think of only two options now:-
1) Try something like excel on it ?
2) Manually remove the top 1/3 - 1/2 of gravel and replace 

I'm currently thinking no.2.  Does anybody have any other ideas?

Paul


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## ian_m (31 Mar 2013)

Years ago when I had algae on my gravel i hiked it out and boiled it in dilute bleach. Warning hot bleachy water hurts. Wash thoroughly, soak overnight in dechlorinator if worried and put back in tank. And make sure it doesn't happen again.


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