# Slow growing plants and feeding



## dannydee (5 Aug 2012)

Hi folks,

I need some help please. I have a tank that has only anubias species and java ferns. I use easy carbo and profito but my plants don't look good. I'm not sure if I am dosing correctly but I have green spot algae on the anubias and the ferns develop little dark green lumps all over the older leaves.

My tank is well established, it's roughly 115ltrs with an external filter. I dose 2mls of easy carbo and half a ml of profito each day. A 50% water change is carried out each week.

What am I doing wrong?


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## GHNelson (5 Aug 2012)

Hi
I'm not sure whats in your fertilizer...but most members here use dry salts dosing or a solution made up with dry salts.
Java fern will produce small plantlets from the carbuncles you mentioned.
The lumps are not a disease or some strange growth.
You may have to increase your liquid carbon dosing...to combat the green spot algae.
Make up your own ferts its easy enough and cheaper in the long run.
Or purchase some from the various sponsors on the site.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10373
Read the above topic regarding ferns.
Cheers
hoggie


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## dannydee (5 Aug 2012)

Thanks Hoggies.

That link about the ferns is great, so thanks again. My fern definitely needs a good prune!
As for dosing, I have been considering stopping. My logic is this; they are slow growing plants and I have quite a few fish in the tank, I'm thinking they would probably get all they need from the waste the fish produce? I don't need the plants to grow as quickly as possible, I just want them to look healthy. Is this a bad idea?


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## Ady34 (5 Aug 2012)

Hi,
you dont say what lighting your using, with anubias and ferns you can use low levels which in turn reduces the uptake of c02 and nutrients (although all of these do slow growth which you say you dont mind) Id try reducing your lighting and upping your c02 slightly. GSA is usually a sign of too little phosphate and too much light. Id try reducing the light intensity first and if the problem persists upping your npk dosing also (Nitrogen, Phosphate and Potassium).
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## dw1305 (6 Aug 2012)

Hi all,


> I have a tank that has only anubias species and java ferns I use easy carbo and profito but my plants don't look good. ........As for dosing, I have been considering stopping. My logic is this; they are slow growing plants and I have quite a few fish in the tank, I'm thinking they would probably get all they need from the waste the fish produce? I don't need the plants to grow as quickly as possible, I just want them to look healthy. Is this a bad idea?


I'm fairly sure that your plants are lacking one or more nutrients, but also that stopping most dosing may be the answer. The missing nutrient is likely to be nitrogen N, most safely added as nitrate, NO3. I use the orchid, bromeliad, fern, succulent or alpine growing approach for slow growing plants like Java Fern and _Anubias_ ssp, it is aimed at growing plants with low potential growth rates in nutrient poor conditions. 

*Duckweed Index*
I use a floating plant (any-one will do, but I usually use _Limnobium_ (Amazon Frogbit)), as a visual indicator of when I need to add nutrients. I've called this the "duckweed index", but index is much too specific a term and it is just an easy way of assessing the health of your plants. I used a floating plant to take CO2 out of the equation, and I prefer_ Limnobium_ (or Duckweed, _Lemna minor, L. gibba, Spirodela polyrrhiza_ etc.) as they have naturally dark green leaves without hairs etc, and show a quick greening and growth response. You can also reduce nutrient levels to pretty low levels with _Limnobium_, whilst the Duckweeds fail to persist in soft water at very low nutrient levels. 

There are details and photos here: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14400>. You don't need to know your conductivity, you can just use plant colour and growth as an indicator of when to feed. 
You can also use the amount of floaters as a way of regulating the light reaching the plants in the tank, it is mostly trial and error, but you should be able to get a balance where the plants are happy, but algal growth is limited. 

*Profito and Easy Carbo*
These plants  are fine without CO2, or liquid carbon supplements, (these are glutaraldehyde based, but work in the same way as adding gaseous CO2). "Profito" is a source of potassium (K+) and micro-elements, but doesn't contain any nitrate (NO3-) or phosphate (PO4-).

*Macronutrients*
Along with carbon (C),  the 3 macro-elements plants  require most of are nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K), with the plants requiring something in the order of x10 as much nitrogen and potassium as phosphorus.

All macro and micro-elements are required for plant growth, but as intimated in the name, plants require a lot less of the secondary and micro-elements (magnesium (Mg), calcium (Ca), iron (Fe), boron (B), chlorine (Cl), sulphur (S), manganese (Mn), zinc (Zn), copper (Cu), molybdenum (Mo), nickel (Ni), selenium (Se), and sodium (Na)). 

Light (PAR or "photosynthetically active radiation") drives photosynthesis, and photosynthesis drives nutrient uptake (including CO2). The whole process is like an assembly line, with plant growth restricted by which ever resource is limiting (PAR, CO2 or macro/micro-nutrient availability). Adding more of a non-limiting element doesn't increase plant growth, but it may prove harmful as some micro-nutrients are toxic at higher levels, the extra-energy from light may damage photo-systems, or high levels of one nutrient may block uptake of another nutrient.  

Because we have plants that aren't rooted in a substrate we can ignore substrate nutrients and just concentrate on the water column. Java Fern and _Anubias_ species will grow more quickly with added CO2, as long as all the other nutrients and light are non-limiting, but this is true of all plants. This won't be a particularly quick response, or produce a lot more growth, because these are plants with relatively low potential growth rates. The same applies to nitrogen etc. more nitrogen will produce more growth initially, but nitrogen above the level where it is the limiting nutrient, won't produce any more growth.

cheers Darrel


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## dannydee (6 Aug 2012)

Thank you people, great information.

Ady, I'm only using T8 lighting. So don't think that is the problem.

Darrel, your post is very interesting. You obviously know your stuff.  
I have been battling with this tank for over two years now, and to be honest, my patients is wearing thin. I started off using TPN+ with the easy carbo but got bushy/hairy algae developing. I stopped with the TPN+ and started using the profito (I thought with the TPN+ and fish waste, too much nitrogen was entering the tank) along with the easy carbo and things seemed to be ok for awhile.
It didn't last for that long unfortunately.
So can I ask what would you be dosing and how much? I still have the TPN+, easy carbo and the profito. I've tried tweaking things and I'm still not getting it right. I would just love to have a healthy, problem free tank.
Cheers


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## darren636 (6 Aug 2012)

what is your cleaning ritual like? how often do you rinse the filter media etc? what flow do you have around the tank?


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## dannydee (6 Aug 2012)

I do a 50% water change every week, this is mainly for the benefit of the fish. I'm not so regimental with the filter media however, I probably rinse that every four to five months. As for flow, well, my filter is an Aqua One 1050 Advance. This would be a complete guess but I reckon the water would get filtered through about seven times an hour.


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## darren636 (7 Aug 2012)

try washing your filter foams every month. Probably best to do only half each time.


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## dw1305 (7 Aug 2012)

Hi all,
I'm away for a couple of weeks now, but if you want some floaters PM me when I get back. I think some floaters, both to act as a nutrient sink and provide shading, coupled with more regular filter maintenance, may well get you to where you want to be.

If your tap water is extremely soft? you might need to add a little calcium. You should be able to get a report from your water company. If your water doesn't contain any calcium I think a very small amount of "Oyster shell chick grit" should suffice, and it is extremely cheap to buy.

When you run out of TPN+ (which should contain all the macro & micro nutrients), have a look at the really useful James' Planted Tank <http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm> for a DIY alternative, or you could buy an "all in one mix", from one of our sponsors.

cheers Darrel


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## ceg4048 (7 Aug 2012)

dannydee said:
			
		

> Hi folks,
> 
> I need some help please. I have a tank that has only anubias species and java ferns. I use easy carbo and profito but my plants don't look good. I'm not sure if I am dosing correctly but I have green spot algae on the anubias and the ferns develop little dark green lumps all over the older leaves.
> 
> ...


Hello,
      In addition to the data provided above you should consider the following:
Green Spot Algae (GSA) is a result of either insufficient PO4, or insufficient CO2 or a combination of both. As Darrel points out you should choose to either stop dosing the CO2 product entirely or, if you wish to continue to enrich the CO2 with EasyCarbo then do it the right way by adding more.

You made an error when you attributed the appearance of hair algae to the dosing of TPN+. Hair algae is caused by poor CO2, so instead of dropping the TPN+ you should have increased the Easycarbo. 

Adding CO2 to a tank is very complicated and people often suffer CO2 related faults even though they are adding CO2. This appears to be illogical but it is a fact of aquatic plant life.

If you choose to follow the non-enriched path then you will find that although growth rates of the plants slow considerably, after a while, things will settle down as both these species do quite well without the addition of CO2 - however, the problems won't just disappear overnight.

If you choose to continue the CO2 enriched path then you should immediately treble or quadruple both the EasyCarbo daily dosing as well as the TPN+ dosing suggestion on their respective bottles. You should also perform 50% water changes several times per week for the next few weeks.

Cheers,


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## dannydee (7 Aug 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> dannydee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ideal, thank you very much indeed.

Cheers


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