# external flash vs studio lighting



## Nigel95 (19 Aug 2017)

Hey hey, I would like to buy some studio lighting or external flash second hand to improve my aquarium pictures.

I have very small space beside the aquariums so I don't know if studio lighting will fit with the tripod. Any solutions for this?

My main question is what would be better for taking full aquarium shots. An external flash or studio lighting above the tank?

For what specifications should I look for? When buying an external flash or studio lighting.I have read 200 watts like two would be nice on both sides. What about external flash whats important?

Thanks


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## Tom43 (12 Sep 2017)

I'm interested in the answers too Nigel!  If I may, could I also add to your question what focal lengths people prefer for 'whole tank' shots, and for other types of shot?

Two bits of kit you might find interesting are:




 

1. Delkin's sucker mount for DSLR cameras.  Amongst other things, these are used on film sets to attach DSLRs to cars.  I've used mine on cars, boats and the fish tank. Quality kit, and very handy for mounting cameras (or any kit that fits on a hot shoe mount) onto glass or any smooth surface.  I also use it to hold my LED light (see below).



 

2. Aputure LED lights - they have adjustable colour temperature and brightness, it uses both rechargeable lithium power packs and AA batteries.  This is handy for fill in light, using the hot shoe mount and the suckers above.  They come in various sizes, the model number of mine is AL-H198C.  They make some lovely camera gear, and are great value (Chinese brand) and quality, well engineered.

It comes with a case, and a diffuser that just clips on, and a hotshoe mount with is adjustable all directions.


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## ceg4048 (13 Sep 2017)

Hello,
        I'm sure one can have success using either method, but I find it easier to use existing tank lighting, occasionally supplemented by an off camera flash unit. The flash can be connected via extension cable or by remote trigger (which is more complicated for my gear).

I'm assuming you have a DSLR, and if so then it's useful to have a fast lens combined with bumping the ISO up a little. It turns out that DSLR sensors are very forgiving when under-expose but not at all forgiving of overexposure. You can also shoot in Log profileif the camera has this type of profile, or with very flat settings, i.e. reduce sharpening, contrast and saturation (if no Log profile is available on that model) which will preserve the details, and then you can recover and expand the color/tonal range in post processing.

It also helps to do a custom white balance if your camera has this feature. You can shoot a submerged white or grey card with the tank lights turned on to get a custom WB value.

As far as focal length, I use every focal length available to me with my lenses. Wide angle settings on a zoom or selection of a prime depends on the tank size for whole tank shots , and more intimate shots require a telephoto or longer zoom setting. Best to experiment I reckon.

Cheers,


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## Nigel95 (13 Sep 2017)

I have been trying to shoot  some pictures with a cheap chinese floodlight above the tank and it makes the pictures a lot better. My main light is only 2500 lumens and this is simply not enough. You can use a higher f-stop when using more light. But so far no fish in my tank. When I have fish in tank I also need a faster shutter speed like 1/200. Might need another floodlight to make pictures with an f-stop of 8-10 and shutterspeed 1/200. I only have a compact camera so nothing special.


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## Tom43 (14 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> I'm sure one can have success using either method, but I find it easier to use existing tank lighting, occasionally supplemented by an off camera flash unit. The flash can be connected via extension cable or by remote trigger (which is more complicated for my gear).
> 
> I'm assuming you have a DSLR, and if so then it's useful to have a fast lens combined with bumping the ISO up a little. It turns out that DSLR sensors are very forgiving when under-expose but not at all forgiving of overexposure. You can also shoot in Log profileif the camera has this type of profile, or with very flat settings, i.e. reduce sharpening, contrast and saturation (if no Log profile is available on that model) which will preserve the details, and then you can recover and expand the color/tonal range in post processing.
> ...



Thanks, much appreciated.  Yes my Panasonic GH4 has a log profile, I've only used it for video but I'm sure the principle is the same.  I'll remember to try this.  Also thanks for the tip re white balance: stupidly I hadn't though of submerging my grey card!  In fact, I have a colour card as well used for video colour correction (grading) which might also help to experiment with settings and light and post correction.

I have a question about the telephoto lenses, if you don't mind.  I've been looking into macro lenses, since my zooms mean I have to stay about 6 feet or more from the tank which reduces the light hitting the sensor and means any camera movement when following fish etc is amplified, so focusing and tracking are quite tricky (especially with shallow depth field I've been using due to no flash.. ahem).  And I can't get anywhere near the magnification of a macro lens.

So I'm wondering about the best macro focal length for really close-up shots.  I'm thinking either an approx 100mm lens or a 200mm.  The closest focusing distance (for maximum magnification) of a 100mm lens is around 30cm, which means the lens is on the glass pretty much (my tank is 51cm deep, and I want to probably focus on the first half of the tank depth to minimise shooting through too much water).  As well as the potential for scratching the tank and lens, being this close freaks the fish out so I'll never get natural looking shots.  So I was thinking 200mm macro might be best.  But lots of folk on forums seem to favour 90/100/105mm lenses... do you have a point of view on this?

Thanks!


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## Tom43 (14 Sep 2017)

Nigel95 said:


> I have been trying to shoot  some pictures with a cheap chinese floodlight above the tank and it makes the pictures a lot better. My main light is only 2500 lumens and this is simply not enough. You can use a higher f-stop when using more light. But so far no fish in my tank. When I have fish in tank I also need a faster shutter speed like 1/200. Might need another floodlight to make pictures with an f-stop of 8-10 and shutterspeed 1/200. I only have a compact camera so nothing special.



Yes I'm going to experiment with my studio lights and see what difference this makes.  The tank is in a corner position, so I'll have a nightmare trying to position the lights... a small flash might be more practical, and would help to achieve higher shutter speeds and smaller apertures.  It will also freeze the action, which will counter the motion blur which has been my other key problem trying to follow fast small fish and focus, using wide apertures with shallow depth of field, on non-macro telephoto lenses, all at the same time... madness!  Even with a tripod, this is hard...

I've been doing a lot of reading, and found some superb blog articles on macro photography, low light photography and underwater (for divers) photography... all of which have helped me figure some things out.  Happy to post all the links if they are of interest, just reply here and I'll dig them out.

In case you are considering a flash, I'd recommend checking out the brand Godox if you don't know them.  I just discovered them today.  They are a Chinese manufacturer that seem to be taking the photo world by storm recently.  For my camera, the Panasonic GH4, they sell at flash gun that works with the camera's TTL (through the lens) metering and can trigger slave flashes for 70 quid... astonishing value given the equivalent Panasonic flash is 300 quid.  They also have a control unit at 40 quid that will sit on the camera hot shoe and can control all sorts of Godox flash gear, right up to big studio strobe flashes.  I'm thinking one control unit plus two small flashes for 180 pounds is great value, and allows remote wireless triggering of flashes.  If you then have suction mounts for the flashes, you can mount them in any angle or position on side glass or over the top... 

I'll let you know how I get on.  I plan to order this flash tomorrow.


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## ceg4048 (15 Sep 2017)

Tom43 said:


> Thanks, much appreciated. Yes my Panasonic GH4 has a log profile, I've only used it for video but I'm sure the principle is the same. I'll remember to try this. Also thanks for the tip re white balance: stupidly I hadn't though of submerging my grey card! In fact, I have a colour card as well used for video colour correction (grading) which might also help to experiment with settings and light and post correction.


Hi Yes,  profiles are primarily for video so the camera may not apply the setting for stills. If not then try pulling back all the sharpening, contrast and saturation settings and shoot in raw.



Tom43 said:


> I have a question about the telephoto lenses, if you don't mind. I've been looking into macro lenses, since my zooms mean I have to stay about 6 feet or more from the tank which reduces the light hitting the sensor and means any camera movement when following fish etc is amplified, so focusing and tracking are quite tricky (especially with shallow depth field I've been using due to no flash.. ahem). And I can't get anywhere near the magnification of a macro lens.


I guess it depends on your camera system. I use a nikon DSLR and have no troubles with the 105 or the various tele zooms, many of which are close focusing without being dedicated macro.

Cheers,


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## doylecolmdoyle (16 Sep 2017)

I find 20mm the best focal length when taking full tank shots, you do get some barrel distortion at this wider angle, if you have photoshop its a simple click to fix this barrel distortion.  I cant really add any advice with using external lighting, I have only use my tank light when shooting full tank shots, if you do use a external flash it will need to be mounted high / above the tank so you dont get reflections on the front glass. You can pick up cheap external flashes for Canon and Nikon via ebay, tho it could almost be just as cheap (and maybe more useful) to buy a second LED panel / light for your tank?


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## Nigel95 (16 Sep 2017)

This is what I use Floodlights link


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## doylecolmdoyle (16 Sep 2017)

They seem decent, personally I would prefer to use a fixed light (like the lights you posted) my work has some LED fill lights I may try out one day. I did a flash photography unit once when studying graphic design, much tricker then a fixed light, but that was along time ago!


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## Tom43 (18 Sep 2017)

Morning all.  Just in case of interest I thought I'd post some web link resources that I found over the weekend. 

I came across this article by Mark Berkery which was delightfully refreshing, and full of his passion for little critters and his love of nature.  Quite zen... you'll have to read it to see what I mean.  A great reminder that it's not all about the gear...

"Nature's Place" by Mark Berkery:
https://beingmark.com/macro-illustrated/

DPReview may be a site already familiar to you, and this article is the first of a small series on topics related to macro photography.  A mixture of technical discussion and composition advice, all articles are short reads.  This helped me get my head around macro vs non-macro lenses, and the concepts of working distances of lenses for close focusing.

Series "What we want in a macro shot" on DPReview:
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/6519974919/macro-photography-understanding-magnification

This site is dedicated to underwater photography, and many of the basics and techniques are applicable to tank photography.  Really comprehensive range of articles, which help to understand the nature of photography and light when shooting through water.  

Introduction page with links to index of articles:
http://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-techniques/

... and here is the section on underwater lighting (we clearly have more freedom on lighting of a tank, but the principles and methods here will be of interest):

http://www.divephotoguide.com/under...tegory/underwater-photography-lighting-guide/

Thanks Nigel for starting this thread, and for all the contributions.


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## Tom43 (18 Sep 2017)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi Yes,  profiles are primarily for video so the camera may not apply the setting for stills. If not then try pulling back all the sharpening, contrast and saturation settings and shoot in raw.
> 
> 
> I guess it depends on your camera system. I use a nikon DSLR and have no troubles with the 105 or the various tele zooms, many of which are close focusing without being dedicated macro.
> ...



Thanks for these thoughts.  I'm reviewing the video guides I bought when I bought the camera to get familiar with the photography modes of the camera.

I decided to go for a macro lens second hand (old Nikon Micro 300mm f4, manual only like my other lenses) which was within my budget (unfortunately doesn't stretch to some of the lovely autofocus and stabilised lenses available but I'll be using my monopod anyway).  I've also looked into a flash system by Godox, incredible value and seems to get good reviews.


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## Tom43 (19 Sep 2017)

Playing last night with the new lens and flashes.  Focus is tricky with the shallow depth of field, and I haven't quite figured out my flash modes yet.  I also forgot to submerse the white card and do a custom white balance, so the colours are a bit off.  But results are quite promising...

So I bought a Nikon Micro 200mm f4 AIS (80s glass, manual lens) and Goddox flash system (2 flashes fired remotely using wireless function of camera).  I'm liking the lens' bokeh, and sharpness.  These shots were taken at ISO 3200 so I should be able to get better resolution once I figure out the flash.

I've bought on eBay some extension tubes so that I can use my other Nikon primes (non macro) for wider angle shots.

Thanks again everyone for the help getting started with macro.


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