# BGA in new tank



## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

I seem to have a bit of BGA in my new tank, but I've read that it often appears due to low Nitrates.. which makes no sense because my test kits show up high amounts of Nitrates. the Brown diatoms are gone but now there is a bit of this BGA + some Green Spot Algae. The BGA seems to be concentrated around my clumps of Dwarf Hair Grass but I think it might have spread to some stones as well.

I've started to use a AquaMedia 1000 for CO2 hooked up to my old JBL Filter.. so that the Aquamedic wouldn't restrict the flow of my larger new Eheim filter:

My tank:
170L
Filter 1: Eheim Professional 3 350T (1050L / hour)
Filter 2: JBL CristalProfi 700 (700L / hour)
CO2: Aquamedic 1000 hooked up to Filter 2.
Substrate: ADA Amazonia + Power Sand

PH: 6.55
KH: 7
CO2: 2 bps
NO2: 0
NO3: 25-50
NH4: 0
Phos: 5-10? (test isn't very accurate as it shows 0, 10, 20 readings)

Any ideas where I'm going wrong?


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## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

Ignore the test kits, Green Spot Algae has also been linked to low PO4, as well as CO2. How is your flow around these areas? I would also increase the CO2 from 2bps unless you have pretty low lighting.

What are you dosing?


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## ceg4048 (25 Feb 2011)

bjorn said:
			
		

> I seem to have a bit of BGA in my new tank, but I've read that it often appears due to low Nitrates.. which makes no sense because my test kits show up high amounts of Nitrates...


Yeah, why is it that people never assume that it's their test kits that make no sense? BGA is not capable of lying. Test kits on the other hand lie every day.




			
				bjorn said:
			
		

> Phos: 5-10? (test isn't very accurate as it shows 0, 10, 20 readings)
> 
> Any ideas where I'm going wrong?


Yes, your belief and trust in test kit readings will doom your tank to extinction.

Cheers,


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Ignore the test kits, Green Spot Algae has also been linked to low PO4, as well as CO2. How is your flow around these areas? I would also increase the CO2 from 2bps unless you have pretty low lighting.
> 
> What are you dosing?



More than 2 bps? But  doesn't PH 6.55 and KH7 = 59ppm of CO2? The drop checker is limegreen too. Fish seem fine though.

I got 2 filters so the flow in the tank should be decent, the BGA seems concentrated on the Dwarf Hair Grass, i.e. on gravel and plant. There isn't much of it though, just small amounts that I've removed.

*I'm dosing ADA Brighty Step 1 + Brighty K and ECA. Nothing else.*


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> bjorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I've noticed readings are a bit random. But I've tested using 2 different kits, and they both show Nitrates. But I guess I should then go on to dosing Micro and Macro.. currently with the ADA stuff I only do Micro + Phos.


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## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

bjorn said:
			
		

> More than 2 bps? But  doesn't PH 6.55 and KH7 = 59ppm of CO2? The drop checker is limegreen too. Fish seem fine though.[/b]



Don't quote me on it but as I understand it, the pH to KH ratio relies on acidification by carbonic acid (CO2) alone - Aquasoil lowers the pH of the water by itself (although I'm not sure of the process), so I would say it's safe to assume the reading could be quite inaccurate. 



			
				bjorn said:
			
		

> Yes, I've noticed readings are a bit random. But I've tested using 2 different kits, and they both show Nitrates. But I guess I should then go on to dosing Micro and Macro.. currently with the ADA stuff I only do Micro + Phos.



The Brighty K is Potassium, not Phos. As Clive says, if you are getting these types of algae then trust what they tell you, not the test kit. Don't rely on or expect any consumer test kit to be accurate. If it were me I would start dosing macros, as it looks like the Aquasoil isn't providing enough N or P for your plants. Then again I'm only just re-learning it myself!


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

Ok, so I've been looking into EI but not sorted out the stuff I need for it yet. But I do have some Tropica Plant Nutrution + lying around, is it possible to do EI dosing using TPN+? TPN+ has if I understand it right both Macro and Micro nutrients.

If so, how do I figure out a dosage for TPN+ doing EI?


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## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

Yes you could use TPN+, but as with ADA, it's a lot more expensive than the powders. Take the recommended weekly dosage and divide it by 7 (days). Then adjust the dose to suit your system (more TPN+ for more plants, higher light/CO2 - less for less plants, lower light etc). You don't need an exact dose, just find what works. Too much is better than too little. Then reset the nutrient level by a 50% water change at the end of the week.


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Yes you could use TPN+, but as with ADA, it's a lot more expensive than the powders. Take the recommended weekly dosage and divide it by 7 (days). Then adjust the dose to suit your system (more TPN+ for more plants, higher light/CO2 - less for less plants, lower light etc). You don't need an exact dose, just find what works. Too much is better than too little. Then reset the nutrient level by a 50% water change at the end of the week.



I will probably do dry fertlizers eventually, but I got some TPN+ left over and available to use now. I just don't know how to adjust the dose to my system.. It's heavily planted but can't find any guides online other than the normal recommended dose. Which  is 5ml/50L per week.


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## foxfish (25 Feb 2011)

EI & lots of C02 will cure all your problems!
Try turning the gas up & watch your fish - try 3bps, make sure you have plenty of flow inside the tank so the C02 reaches every corner & plant.
This chap make EI very easy http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/prod ... product=82


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## ceg4048 (25 Feb 2011)

Hi,
    It might be a better idea to simply reduce your lighting intensity for now. If you are using Aquasoil and Powersand then you ought to be OK. As mentioned by Tom, GSA is both PO4 and CO2 related so just from a statistical basis I would first assume poor CO2. Also, as Tom says, your calculations are not valid for tank water. There is no way you have 60ppm of CO2. The fact that your fish have not been annihilated should be evidence of that.

This is exactly what I mean by reliance of test kits instead of believing your eyes. Think about it for a second. How can you possibly have 60ppm CO2 if fish seem to be OK and if the dropchecker filled with 4dkh water is only green, not yellow? This combination of events is virtually impossible.

Cheers,


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

Thanks, yes the CO2 issue  makes sense. I didn't think of that. It's probably the Substrate lowering the PH which means using normal CO2 calculator won't work. I've put up the CO2 to 3bbs now. And will lower light level by an hour.

What do I do with fertizlier until I sort out stuff for EI? Would I just use the daily recommended dose of TPN+ for now, add a bit of extra or?


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## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

You'll need to lower the light intensity, not the period.


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> You'll need to lower the light intensity, not the period.



Ok, I can switch off half the lamps.. 

Currently I have it setup with 2 hours dusk/dawn with all 4 lamps on for 7 hours:

2 x 39w for 7 hours in total
2 x 39w for 9 hours in total

Each sitting on it's owner timer.


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## foxfish (25 Feb 2011)

So you have 4 x T5s on for 7 hours!! Crikey I would try just two lights for 7 -8 hours.


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> So you have 4 x T5s on for 7 hours!! Crikey I would try just two lights for 7 -8 hours.



Well the Arcadia Lumniare comes with 4 lights.. so I switched them on.   

Ok.. and how do I see if it's not enough light?


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## foxfish (25 Feb 2011)

Well unless your tank is especially deep or your lights very high above the water 2 x T5 will work well.
Some folk try a short burst of light at mid day using 4 T5s but most of us simply use two for 7-8 hours a day.
C02 is very often the main issue, it is not always easy to get it just right but if you want o use all four lights then it becomes even more critical & very risky for the fish!
I have been using the ferts from that link i posted with great results & you should get the ferts in a day or two.


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## bjorn (25 Feb 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Well unless your tank is especially deep or your lights very high above the water 2 x T5 will work well.
> Some folk try a short burst of light at mid day using 4 T5s but most of us simply use two for 7-8 hours a day.
> C02 is very often the main issue, it is not always easy to get it just right but if you want o use all four lights then it becomes even more critical & very risky for the fish!
> I have been using the ferts from that link i posted with great results & you should get the ferts in a day or two.



Oh right, ok that's good to know! I had no idea, I just assumed that you would just use the whole lot. I'll reduce that to 2 tubes and maybe a 1-2 hour lunch time peak.


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## bjorn (28 Feb 2011)

Just an update. I've now used only 2 out of the 4 lights for 2 days. The plants are still pearling like mad, so it seems it's not had any difference on growth.. so that's good. Not sure about the algae yet though.


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## foxfish (28 Feb 2011)

Sounds like you are on the right track, the algae wont disappear over night but, you must make sure the gas is getting everywhere in the tank.


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## vauxhallmark (28 Feb 2011)

If I'm using TPN+ I use 1ml per 20l of water per day. Works for me, if you've got it lying around you might as well use it!

Mark


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## bjorn (28 Feb 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Sounds like you are on the right track, the algae wont disappear over night but, you must make sure the gas is getting everywhere in the tank.



I hope so. The BGA seems to have stopped growing. But the major issue is now Rhizoclonium, I'm sure I've fixed the underlying problems but it seems to have gotten hold. This stuff just grows back overnight, mainly on my Christmas moss and some of the other fine leafed plants which means I can't easily clean them off. I've ordered some Excel.. hoping that might help.


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## bjorn (28 Feb 2011)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> If I'm using TPN+ I use 1ml per 20l of water per day. Works for me, if you've got it lying around you might as well use it!
> 
> Mark



I have started to use the TPN+, but not 1ml per 20L.. Sounds like a lot! I'm currently doing twice the recommended weekly dose, but dosing it daily. So 4ml per day for a 170l tank (recommended weekly dose 1ml per 10L water)


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## flygja (1 Mar 2011)

Use an old toothbrush to remove as much Rhizo as possible, then do a 4-day blackout. Should be able to rid your tank of Rhizo.


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## bjorn (1 Mar 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> Use an old toothbrush to remove as much Rhizo as possible, then do a 4-day blackout. Should be able to rid your tank of Rhizo.



Wouldn't a 4-day blackout kill all my plants and I would have to start over?


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## Tom (1 Mar 2011)

No, I did a Thurs-Mon blackout over the last weekend on a tank I maintain for a school, with very good results


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## bjorn (1 Mar 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> No, I did a Thurs-Mon blackout over the last weekend on a tank I maintain for a school, with very good results



Do you recon that's the only way to get rid of Rhizoclonium? Everything is growing very well now and BGA gone.. But Rhizoclonium is growing just as well as the plants. I'm confident the problems are gone but it's really taken a hold on some plants.

Would Excel be able to deal with Rhizoclonium instead of a blackout?


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## Anonymous (1 Mar 2011)

Add some Amano shrimps into the tank .. say 10 at least.

Cheers,
Mike


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## Tom (1 Mar 2011)

I was targeting BGA with my blackout, but my point is that the blackout didn't harm the plants. I'm not sure about Rhizo, sorry. 
Tom


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## bjorn (4 Mar 2011)

Just an update, all the Rhizoclonium is gone. I did a 80% waterchange, cleaned off as much of the Rhizoclonium I could find and removed or cut any plants too heavily infected. Then been dosing the double recommended amount of Excel for 4 days. All gone, cleaned up nicely. No BGA and no other Algea left either other than a tiny amount of short haired green algea on stones but it looks rather nice anyway.


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