# Lighting - A fine balance!



## REDSTEVEO (6 Nov 2012)

Hi all,

I have been reading two threads with interest, surrounding the issues of brown diatoms on moss, excessive lighting, dosing and plant selection. The main two topics are below, where questions have been asked about silicates in the water column and leaves yellowing and dying off on plants.

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24039

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24155

The problem I have had recently is striking a balance between getting certain plants to grow and avoiding the brown diatom issue on moss. I recently replanted my tank with the intention of having a sweeping bed of Uticulara and Hemianthus Cuba around the front, long stem plants at the back and some pieces of bog wood covered in moss reaching over the middle. The issue is I was having no success whatsoever with the Uticulara or the Hemianthus so I experimented with the lighting by increasing it using an old 150 watt metal halide unit I had. As soon as I added that, the Uticulara and the Hemianthus that was left started pearling as did all the other plants. 

The downside is after two days I have got the same brown diatoms growing all over my moss. Is this a case where a decision has to be made in so much as it is either Uticulara and Hemianthus thriving at the expense of the moss, or keep the moss clean and healthy and forget the UT and the HC? Should we be saying we can't have both, low tech lighting plants with high tech lighting plants, or...is there a way around it?

If so it would be great if someone could let me know because I can not decide whether it is going to be the moss or the UT and HC. 

The pictures below show what I am on about.

The HC and the UT virtually non existent after using two tubs of each, it just fell apart.










The moss that was thriving under low light 2 x 24 watt T5 tubes over the centre of a Trigon 190 and 2 x 15 watt T8 tubes in the front and back lid.









Sometime today I am going to have to remove the wood, trip off all the bits with diatoms on it, wash the moss and put it back in the tank. The stem plants are not doing brilliantly, the Echinodorus in the middle is thriving no matter what lighting I use.

Your views appreciated,

thanks,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (7 Nov 2012)

Hi Steve,
           You should stop focusing on lighting and focus more on doing more water changes and better CO2 injection rate and distribution. Return to the previous lower intensity. The silicate issue is an old wives tale so forget about that path and concentrate on CO2/flow.

Cheers,


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## REDSTEVEO (7 Nov 2012)

I have removed the 150 watt metal halide and returned to the lower intensity lighting. The moss looks better after 2 days even without trimming it or washing it. The HC and UT have just about had it though.

I only do 50% water change once a week and the usual dosing routine for NPK and CSM. The CO2 (100 BPM) goes through a glass diffuser in the corner sucked up into the inlet pipe and blown back out again in an arc across the top of the tank onto the front glass and down along the bottom. The flow and distribution look good, drop checker lime green in mornings, dark green at night.

WPG 40 gallons / 48 watts of T5 and 30 watts of T8 I think works out at 1.95 watts per gallon which I think is great for the moss but no good for the HC and UT (unless I have got my maths wrong)

I know you have said don't get hung up on the lighting but..the reason I am is because I am thinking of binning the fluorescents altogether and getting a TMC Aquaray 1000ND LED Tile for the centre strip and two TMC Grobeam 500 LED strips for the front and back lids of the tank. With an 8 way controller it is going to cost a lot of money, but I don't want to do it if it is going to make no difference to the plant growth.

Cheers,

Steve


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## ceg4048 (7 Nov 2012)

I've grown all of those together and more so there really is no incompatibility. The tank looks like some kind of triangle, or maybe it's the photography, so there might be an issue with distribution of CO2. You can get any light unit you want but that will not determine your success with UG or HC. These plants are having a CO2 issue, not a lighting issue. What you're seeing in their demise is an optical illusion.

Cheers,


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## plantbrain (8 Nov 2012)

HC and UG are CO2 demanding plants.
Cooler temps reduces the rate of growth also, increases O2, so many do better with cooler tanks also.


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## REDSTEVEO (8 Nov 2012)

Okay I am going to re-look at the flow and distribution of my CO2. I have got two old powerheads with an attachment on which was meant to be used for attaching an air line which then sprayed bubbles all round the tank from sucking in air into the water flow.

Maybe if I attach the airline from the CO2 Bottle instead of the diffuser straight to the powerhead and see how that works.

Who is using atomisers in line or otherwise?


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## ceg4048 (8 Nov 2012)

Hi Steve,
              An in line device is the way to go, whether a DIY reactor, inline ceramic diffuser or atomizer like the UP.

Cheers,


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

Hi Clive,

Thanks, I have had a look at the inline atomisers, see the link below.

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/up-co2- ... c60944b511

I have already got a Hydor 300 watt heater in my outlet line. Should the Atomiser go in front or behind the heater or won't it matter? Any body else using these is there any restriction of flow?

Cheers,

Steve


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## krazypara3165 (9 Nov 2012)

I dont think it matters personally. I have not got one myself but I would imagine the closer you can get it to the filter the better, so the bubbles have longer to diffuse before they enter your tank the up atomiser seems to be everyones choice on here. From reading other posts it appears it makes very little to no difference in your flow rate.


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## foxfish (9 Nov 2012)

Hundreds of folk use those mate, they are very popular at the present time.
You need a reg with adjustable pressure because the devises need at least 1.7bar but from my experience you are better off running them at 2.5 bar.
Also understand that the anatomiser will fill you tank with micro bubbles - literally millions of miniscule bubbles of C02, these bubbles are visible to the eye but also work very effectively at supplying the plants with what they need!
Basically they are a ceramic diffuser set inside a waterproof casing, it does not matter where it fits along the return line.


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

Brilliant feedback guys thanks very much. I am going to order one today. Presumably the micro bubbles you refer to are only present when the CO2 is being fed right? Because mine switches on and off on a PH sensor as the PH rises and falls again.

This will obviously increase the efficiency of the CO2 coming from the regulator, I just need to work out whether my flow distribution around the tank is good enough.

I think I will wait for a week after I have fitted it and then see what the difference it makes and then I can always tweak the flow around the tank.

Cheers Guys I am getting on the phone  

Steve


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## foxfish (9 Nov 2012)

UUMMM I think you should revise PH controllers for planted tanks first!
There are one or two guys who seem to use them successfully but there are a lot more who have lots of issues.
You certainly dont need one!


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

Yes I know you are right, I have seen the posts and issues people have had with PH Controllers. I have used mine for years without problems. Yes you do have to calibrate the sensor unit now and then using ph 4.0 and ph 7.0 solutions but it all seems to work okay.

The thing is, and this will sound really stupid, I also have the thing on a timer so it switches off regardless at night time, no point in CO2 pumping round the aquarium at night time right? The timer turns it on 2 hours before lights on and the drop checker is usually lime green by the time the lights come on.

So go on, tell me this is where the problem lies and if you convince me I'll change it over   

I've seen these on eBay,

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/33061082 ... bar&cbt=y#

But they are from Hong Kong so I am not sure, they are only £16.00 compared to £33.00 over here.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Nov 2012)

REDSTEVEO said:
			
		

> Yes I know you are right, I have seen the posts and issues people have had with PH Controllers. I have used mine for years without problems. Yes you do have to calibrate the sensor unit now and then using ph 4.0 and ph 7.0 solutions but it all seems to work okay.
> 
> The thing is, and this will sound really stupid, I also have the thing on a timer so it switches off regardless at night time, no point in CO2 pumping round the aquarium at night time right? The timer turns it on 2 hours before lights on and the drop checker is usually lime green by the time the lights come on.
> 
> ...




Steve,
These are NOT from HK they are from Manchester, I know because mine was here within Two days of ordering, last week I believe.

Definitely recommend seller, seem decent enough.

Cheers,
N


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## foxfish (9 Nov 2012)

PH controllers push in high amounts of gas to lower the PH & then stop until the PH rises, plants much prefer a constant supply of gas while the light are on. I must add that is what I have read on this forum not my own experience.
I am not in a position to convince you about anything but I have read numerous threads about guys having algae issue while using a PH controller.
You just need a solenoid valve on a timer!


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

Cheers, I will have a play about with the setup once I have installed the atomiser and see then whether I need to change things around. I am hoping to post some before and after pics assuming that there is some noticeable difference that is.

Always learning!!

Thanks,
Steve


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Nov 2012)

Did you see my post above Steve?


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

Whitey89 said:
			
		

> REDSTEVEO said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks, I checked again and yes you are right they are from Manchester, although somehow I suspect they came over from Hong Kong originally because when you check the seller information this is what is shown:

Hi.Angelina
Jingshui Li
Fang Cun Da Dao Dong, He Dong, Sha Yong Tang Bian Da Jie, #11
510200 Guangzhou, ???
??

My question is are these atomisers copies made in Hong Kong or original UP atomisers. If they are original UP Atomisers how come she can sell them so cheaply when they are £33.00 from AE? :?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (9 Nov 2012)

They're the original ones mate, they're manufactured over there, so I imagine they get them sent over for cost, which won't be much.

Everything is expensive here mate, they'll tax us on breaths per week next.


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## REDSTEVEO (9 Nov 2012)

I agree, that makes total sense to me, AE mark up queried directly with them


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## REDSTEVEO (17 Nov 2012)

I know this thread started off as a lighting thread and has gradually morphed into a co2 / atomiser thread so I will continue the theme.

My UP Atomiser arrived yesterday, took me 30 minutes to disconnect the pipework, cut the pipe and fit the atomiser, replace everything and switch it all on.  I really ramped up the bubble count to activate the atomiser and a lovely wonderful mist of co2 started swirling round the tank. I then reduced the bubble count to 120 bubbles per minute as per usual. Since then no mist, no change in colour on the drop checker, and no change on the built in PH sensor and yet I can see and hear the bubbles going through the bubble counter? :?  So where is all the co2 going? :? 

Clues anyone.

Cheers,

Steve


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## Brian Murphy (29 Nov 2012)

My regulator came with the sodastream version but Im unsure if it reads 2.5 bar ? Here is a pic of my current settings


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## linkinruss (30 Nov 2012)

Not sure but using a converter 30 psi = 2 bars.


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