# CO2 and manifolds for nano tanks: newbie



## lilirose (23 Sep 2020)

Currently I have a dual stage regulator with two manifolds, one goes to a 30 liter Dennerle NanoCube and one goes to a 54 liter tank that is 60x30x30cm.

But I'm not finished yet...

I will also be wanting CO2 in:


A second 30 liter NanoCube,
A second 60x30x30
And finally I want to run CO2 to a 72 liter tank that is 60x30x40.
Now, I'm asking this here instead of asking a CO2 salesman, as I want an honest answer and not an "upselling" answer.

That's five tanks total, however they are all very small tanks compared to what most on this forum run. I also have two men in the house giving conflicting advice (and neither of them knows the slightest thing about aquariums). My son says that attaching three more manifolds to the existing regulator is the best option (so that it has five manifolds total). My husband thinks I should buy a second regulator, which would mean I'd spend near enough a thousand on all this kit.

I'm already kicking myself because I was upsold a Ultimate Pro Dual Stage regulator when I could have saved quite a load of money on a single stage, however the salesman convinced me that I was risking my livestock due to the potential of EOTD, and I listened to him and spent a hundred quid more. Have learned since that any EOTD would be minimal as I'm using SodaStream and dividing it among multiple tanks.

Edited to add my actual question: is five manifolds on one regulator too many, if they are all supplying nano tanks?


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

Sorry to bump this but I need to be making some purchases quite soon.


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## noodlesuk (24 Sep 2020)

I suspect you might have trouble balancing the flow with that many manifold and a second regulator might help.

Have you had any issues with the two manifold setup, balance wise?

Try just with the extra manifold and if you have issues, get the second regulator,  maybe. Can you do this?


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## Nick potts (24 Sep 2020)

I wouldn't say it is too many as such, they do make things especially for this https://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/6-way-splitter-for-co2-solenoid-regulator-p122.html

However you would need to upgrade from the soda stream bottle as i imagine you would be going through them very quickly


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

Thank you so much for the responses!

Back a couple of months ago, when I was able to get a civil reply from the person who sold me the original regulator, he said it would be fine to use several manifolds along with a SodaStream, because all my tanks are so small. In further conversation he proved himself to be much less than trustworthy. I only discovered all this when it was too late to send the kit back. 

In my location and in my particular (and unique) situation, SodaStream is going to be my only reliable and consistent source of CO2 refills for the time being. I'm aware that SodaStream tanks are small and that it's more expensive than the alternatives available in the UK and in the less rural parts of Ireland. Please trust that I researched it in depth and this is my only viable solution at this time. When there is no longer an ongoing pandemic with accompanying travel restrictions and business closures, things will be different.

I'm running an Ultimate Pro Dual Stage regulator now (the one that cost 100 quid extra, which I bought because the sales guy convinced me that if I bought a single stage, my livestock would die from EOTD every time the tank ran out). The splitters that @Nick potts  linked to are not for use with that regulator- I will have to buy these instead: *https://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/output-manifold-ultimate-pro-dual-stage-regulator-p544.html*

I have two manifolds now. There is a minor issue of balance (turn one of them up, the bubble count on the other goes down), but once I get it dialled in I think it will be fine. There was a leak that caused the system to eat two SodaStream bottles in about a month- my son thought "just a tiny leak" would not be an issue, and of course he was quite wrong indeed. (I have an ongoing problem of two men in the house who are incredibly hands-on and have refused to let me get fully to terms with the system without them fiddling with it, though neither of them has any interest in my aquariums!)

I was not sure if the balance issue would become much worse with more manifolds- in fact that was probably what I was wanting to know when asking, but I am such a newb at the whole CO2 thing that I am completely unaware of the possible pitfalls, and I don't want to repeat my mistake of relying on the advice of a salesman.

However, a second regulator is a massive expense, and I am on a limited income. If running several manifolds will not work, I'll have to have a rethink.


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## Nick potts (24 Sep 2020)

I don't know much about the regulator you have, but don't be to put out about paying the extra for a dual-stage, just think of it as extra safety.

Why won't the splitters I linked to work, I thought they were universal? The fact you have a dual-stage reg shouldn't make any difference.

I am sure someone with more experience with regulators will be along shortly


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

I don't know why I can't use the splitter. I asked the customer service rep, and was told that for my regulator, that splitter was not the appropriate part, and that, instead, I needed the manifold that I linked to.

Were I to buy a splitter from them anyway after being specifically told that it's not the correct part, I expect I should consider my warranty void from the instant I take receipt of the package. I have come to really dislike the chap that does customer service for that company, but I don't find that to be unfair, that he can't support me if I buy parts that he told me were inappropriate.

In any case, I already have the manifold linked above, it feels like it would become ridiculously complicated if I bought a splitter to throw into the mix instead of additional manifolds?

And I agree, a dual-stage regulator is extra insurance. I bought it believing that I could attach several manifolds. I simply can't afford a second dual-stage regulator anytime soon- that amount of money would feed my family for a week and a half, and again I'm on a limited income.


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## RudeDogg1 (24 Sep 2020)

Do u not have a maidenhead aquatics near u? You could get a larger JBL tank and they do refills to


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

RudeDogg1 said:


> Do u not have a maidenhead aquatics near u? You could get a larger JBL tank and they do refills to



No. I don't live in the UK. I live in an extremely rural part of Ireland. We don't have Maidenhead Aquatics in this country, and the closest LFS that refills CO2 tanks is a 2.5 hour drive away, in a county which currently has visitor restrictions in place (i.e. it's illegal for me to go there at the moment).


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## hypnogogia (24 Sep 2020)

Why would the splitter that @Nick potts linked to not work?  If it attaches to the needle valve on a solenoid, then it doesn’t matter what regulator you have on the other side of that needle valve.  My BS filters are on high alert over what the guys at this retailer are telling you.


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## alto (24 Sep 2020)

I’d follow GLA standards any day 

https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/gla-modular-manifold-blocks.html



> regulator can operate up to 5 blocks max
> 
> Each block contains our custom built-in needle valve and bubble counter to direct supply of CO2 to an additional aquarium, independently.



(not to sell you on their products, but decent quality individual needle valves are necessary, individual bubble counters are useful)


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## alto (24 Sep 2020)

lilirose said:


> splitter was not the appropriate part


I’d strongly agree with this
You can try with splitter(s) but will most likely struggle constantly to obtain predictable/consistent  gas levels down each pathway


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## alto (24 Sep 2020)

lilirose said:


> Were I to buy a splitter from them anyway after being specifically told that it's not the correct part, I expect I should consider my warranty void from the instant I take receipt of the package


This should not impact your regulator warranty - it’s absurd if the company makes that claim


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Why would the splitter that @Nick potts linked to not work?  If it attaches to the needle valve on a solenoid, then it doesn’t matter what regulator you have on the other side of that needle valve.  My BS filters are on high alert over what the guys at this retailer are telling you.



I agree that this guy sets off my BS meter to an extreme. He upsold me via guilt trip ("it's up to you- if you are willing to accept losing the livestock in all of your tanks") and then became extremely rude with me over a different issue a little while later. I wanted to return the entire system at that stage but my husband talked me out of it, and now I'm stuck with it, as the cooling-off period ended weeks ago.

However, again, I don't think it would be reasonable to expect them to support a system after I buy a part for it that he specifically told me was not appropriate. I also know that the whole situation has been frustrating enough without trying to force a hostile retailer to support a system including a part they told me I should not buy. That would push me over the edge- as it is, I'm at the point of unhooking the whole thing and offering it for sale here, as it has caused me no end of stress since the day I bought it, and I can no longer rely on the retailer.

Please forgive me, all, if I sound angry. It's been a long, hard day which has been ruled by Sod's Law at every turn.  I am certainly not angry with anyone here.


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## Nick potts (24 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> I’d strongly agree with this
> You can try with splitter(s) but will most likely struggle constantly to obtain predictable/consistent  gas levels down each pathway



Why? The spitter uses individual needle valves so should be simple enough to dial each one in using a bubble counter.


lilirose said:


> I'm at the point of unhooking the whole thing and offering it for sale here, as it has caused me no end of stress since the day I bought it, and I can no longer rely on the retailer.
> 
> Please forgive me, all, if I sound angry. It's been a long, hard day which has been ruled by Sod's Law at every turn.  I am certainly not angry with anyone here.



I have used them, and I agree the person had to deal with (late package) was blunt and rather rude.

If they are causing you this much stress/issues you should simply not do business with them anymore. The regulator you have bought from them is not some special one that will only work with there accessories or extras, so you could look somewhere else.


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## lilirose (24 Sep 2020)

Sadly, I contacted CO2Art when I began having issues with the rep at CO2 Supermarket, and they told me (direct copy/paste) : "Unfortunately our regulators are designed to our specs and will not fit on other brands. Is there no way you can get your money back under warranty?" 

I was asking about manifolds rather than regulators, so this was a confusing response- and from everything I learned, their equipment is not proprietary to the extent that was implied above- but I took that response as polite shorthand for "we can't help unless you buy everything from us".

At this stage I think I will buy one more manifold (rather than the three than I planned to buy). That will allow me to have three tanks with CO2, even if there are occasional problems with balance between them. Then I'll set up the other two as low-tech, which is a disappointment, but at least I didn't discover that I couldn't hook them up to the existing regulator after they were already planted.

If there is going to be a massive problem with having a total of three manifolds on one regulator, I hope someone will warn me! The two I have are running fine, hopefully one more won't cause serious issues?


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## Nick potts (24 Sep 2020)

I don't think you are going to have any problems with 3.

Also if you do ever decide you want to change the other tanks to high tech there is no reason to buy expensive regulators (mine are both cheap, one an industrial unit built to last and the other a £30 Chinese one.

There is a good guide here for a cheap system https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-pressurised-co2-system-diy-guide.7696/


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## lilirose (25 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> I’d follow GLA standards any day
> 
> https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/gla-modular-manifold-blocks.html
> 
> ...




@alto (sorry to tag, wanted to make sure you saw this)...GLA says that, on one regulator, one can run a maximum of five of the manifolds that you linked to. They look nearly identical to the ones I have, but they are nearly quadruple the price so there must be a difference.

However- does that mean I could possibly run five manifolds on my regulator as I was originally advised by the rep? What would be the potential drawbacks? People keep saying "just buy another regulator" but I won't be able to afford that until June 2021 at the absolute soonest. I might not actually go for five manifolds, but nobody has said what would happen if I try it.

Having done a bit of research, I am also not happy to try to do a second regulator on the cheap- I don't have enough experience with any of this, and trying to keep the men in my house from messing with stuff like this is like trying to wrestle an octopus. There is just too much potential for it all going pear-shaped and me ending up with a hole in the roof where a CO2 cannister blew straight upward. I've already wasted two cannisters because I have a son who saw a leak but decided it was too small to be worth sorting.  (He paid for the replacement of course!)

I've also decided I'm not buying anything at all in a rush. I have the system running well on two tanks, the others can wait a little while.


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## alto (25 Sep 2020)

Nick potts said:


> Why? The spitter uses individual needle valves so should be simple enough to dial each one in using a bubble counter.


This is IME 
(also technical advice from manufacturers, in-house mech repair shop ... lab still used many older splitters and ancient needle valves (kept in repair))
Yours may differ - you may also have different expectations


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## alto (25 Sep 2020)

lilirose said:


> but they are nearly quadruple the price so there must be a difference.


Yes, but that’s GLA (high quality/standards etc)

I don’t see any reason not to run a multi-manifold 
(and you can try splitters after the manifold - I think you have a 2way at present? ... just check very carefully for leaks Snoop is worth the small investment )


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## lilirose (25 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> Yes, but that’s GLA (high quality/standards etc)
> 
> I don’t see any reason not to run a multi-manifold
> (and you can try splitters after the manifold - I think you have a 2way at present? ... just check very carefully for leaks Snoop is worth the small investment )



Ta for that. Especially for the link to Snoop, which my son swore up and down was not a real thing: "The pros use soapy water, Mum, I promise you that there is no such thing as specialised leak detector fluid."  Of course, locating some in rural Ireland is not going to be easy- there's one distributor in Dublin, and Dublin is on lockdown right now.

I have two manifolds at present- the one that came with the regulator, plus one more. I don't really fancy trying a splitter- each manifold has its own bubble counter, and as my tanks are all over my living room, it's good to have some kind of central visual feedback, which I imagine would be a little more awkward with a splitter (I know inline bubble counters are a thing, but I don't fancy having an octopus of CO2 line with inline bubble counters- the manifolds would make a far neater job of it).

I'm still wanting a good understanding of what I'm doing here. It's frustrating to ask "can I use a bunch of manifolds?" and have people suggest that I simply buy another regulator without really answering my question. I may well buy a second regulator eventually, but that doesn't mean I don't want an answer to my original question.

So, again: what are the potential drawbacks running several manifolds, beyond the obvious "you will drain the CO2 cannister more quickly"?


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## alto (26 Sep 2020)

lilirose said:


> “The pros use soapy water, Mum, I promise you that there is no such thing as specialised leak detector fluid."


No idea which pros those might be 
I’ve used soapy water too when I couldn’t find the Snoop - for bigger leaks, it doesn’t matter; for slow leaks, the viscosity of Snoop makes the difference 

I’ll admit that I’m not a fan of running long CO2 lines, if you do this, buy proper CO2 tubing and fittings and monitor your CO2 usage so you can pick up on leaks (not just at the joins but leaks that can occur in the length of tubing)

Maybe post some photos of your current setup


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## hypnogogia (26 Sep 2020)

lilirose said:


> So, again: what are the potential drawbacks running several manifolds, beyond the obvious "you will drain the CO2 cannister more quickly"?


I would have thought that the main challenge will be adjusting the bubble count in each. You change one and it’s likely to affect the others.


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## lilirose (26 Sep 2020)

alto said:


> No idea which pros those might be
> I’ve used soapy water too when I couldn’t find the Snoop - for bigger leaks, it doesn’t matter; for slow leaks, the viscosity of Snoop makes the difference.



Well, my son is not a pro, for sure (he's an adult, in case someone thinks I was leaving it in the hands of a child/teen). He acts as my handyman, though in this case I said "would you please tighten this one bit for me, I'm not strong enough" and instead he took it away and put the whole thing together, thinking I'd be pleased, even though it's my equipment, I've done all the research on it, and he never even looked at the instructions.  There were definitely a load of problems that had to be fixed after that, starting with his "that's just a small leak, it shouldn't matter" resulting in a cannister lasting exactly six days. 



> I’ll admit that I’m not a fan of running long CO2 lines, if you do this, buy proper CO2 tubing and fittings and monitor your CO2 usage so you can pick up on leaks (not just at the joins but leaks that can occur in the length of tubing)



See, this is the kind of info I need, that is extremely hard to find. I have indeed run one long piece of line, of about 10 feet- it is proper CO2 tubing, run carefully around the underside of our marble hearth. At the aquarium end, I have a check valve and about 6 inches of silicone line attached to the glass diffuser- this was recommended on the Aquasabi site, so that I would not break the glass whilst putting on or taking off hard CO2 line- but I'm going to replace that diffuser with a J-pipe soon and then I won't need to use silicone at all. All but 2 inches of the silicone is currently submerged, and I leak tested it from the check valve by submerging the lot in the tank. I am aware that the silicone will deteriorate, which is why I intend to replace the diffuser to make it unnecessary.

I don't know if it's possible that the CO2 line could start to leak along its length rather than at a join. If/when I get a second regulator, the line running along the hearth will be the first bit to go.



> Maybe post some photos of your current setup



I will do that later- it'll involve a bit of crawling around on the floor, and there's a Tesco delivery due any moment, so this isn't a great time to do it.



hypnogogia said:


> I would have thought that the main challenge will be adjusting the bubble count in each. You change one and it’s likely to affect the others.



Thank you! I appreciate everyone's patience with my "but why?" questions. I have noticed with the current two that they both need to be adjusted at the same time, and I can imagine it will be more difficult/annoying with the addition of more.


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## lilirose (28 Oct 2020)

Just because I hate it when people start a thread then never follow up to see how it turned out:

I fully understand the drawback of using several manifolds now. Even with just two, I'm having to adjust them both every single day when the solenoid flips on (I assume this is normal, and is what everyone was trying to warn me about?).

At the moment we can detect no leaks, but I bought a 5kg canister anyway, which arrived today. Hopefully it'll last me six months or more, which would be ideal if "rolling lockdowns" are going to be a thing for a year or two. Have not yet worked out where to get said canister refilled, but I have one lead locally- currently shut due to lockdown, will consult next month when they re-open. If all else fails, I can have it refilled by the guy who sold it to me (several counties over) which will cost me a fortune in shipping. If that fails, I know someone in Dublin. And if even that fails, I can fall back on SodaStream from Argos, as I have the adapter for it.


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