# Black Rusty Algae and E.I dosing



## Luis Batista (16 Aug 2014)

Hi all

The older leaves of my Echinodorus bleheri are getting some kind of black rusty algae on the edge of tle leaves.
The rest of the leave seems to have some green spots algae.

I already have some of this one my anubias together with green spots also.

I read about the ilumination, that creates this type of algae.

I have 0,78W/L. Have 2 T5 4200 and 6500 39W lamps for about 100 liters of usuful tank.

Also read about raising the phosphate help to control this.

I started E.I dosing about 3 weeks with the follow on every other day:






15ml 3 times a week of macros
10ml 3 times a week for micros ( 5g of APFUK’s Chelated Trace Elements for 250ml of water)
50% water change

This is a good recipe for a medium planted tank with some load of fish?




This is the leaves with the rusty algae:

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums...o/Plantas/IMG_20140814_232752_zpsca663133.jpg

http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums...o/Plantas/IMG_20140814_232746_zps37efb6d5.jpg

Anyone could help me?

Best regards,

Luis Batista


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## ceg4048 (16 Aug 2014)

Hello,
           GSA is caused by any combination of low PO4 and low CO2. If you are dosing the proper amounts of nutrients then you have to look at CO2 and flow/distribution. Of course you can always increase the PO4 to see if it makes a difference but most likely it is a CO2 or flow issue. Try moving the CO2 diffuser under the filter inlet so that the filter sucks up as many bubbles as possible. Also remove some of your filter media to improve the filter throughput.

Remove the damaged leaves.

Cheers,


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## Luis Batista (16 Aug 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> GSA is caused by any combination of low PO4 and low CO2. If you are dosing the proper amounts of nutrients then you have to look at CO2 and flow/distribution. Of course you can always increase the PO4 to see if it makes a difference but most likely it is a CO2 or flow issue. Try moving the CO2 diffuser under the filter inlet so that the filter sucks up as many bubbles as possible. Also remove some of your filter media to improve the filter throughput.
> 
> Remove the damaged leaves.
> ...




Hi Ceg

My E.I fertilization have about 2,7 ppm of PO4 plus the one produced by the feeding.
You think i can raise it more? For about what?
The CO2 is about 30ppm, the drop checker is always green, even at night.
The flow i think is not bad because the bubbles of the difusor dance all around the tank but i m thinking of buy some small submersive pump for a even better flow...
I will remove the afected leaves and see that it helps...

Thanks for your reply

Cheers


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## ceg4048 (17 Aug 2014)

Luis Batista said:


> My E.I fertilization have about 2,7 ppm of PO4 plus the one produced by the feeding.
> You think i can raise it more? For about what?


Hi,
    You can raise it to whatever value you want. My policy is to simply double everything to see if that was the problem. You don't have to calculate anything. Just keep it simple and  add twice as much of your dosing as you were before.




Luis Batista said:


> The CO2 is about 30ppm


Everybody thinks this and everybody is wrong.
When you are suffering a possible CO2 related issue you should always look for a radical alteration of CO2 diffusion and flow distribution method. As I mentioned, it really is pointless to have your diffuser sitting in a corner far away from everything. The gas goes straight up and out of the tank.




Luis Batista said:


> The flow i think is not bad because the bubbles of the diffuser dance all around the tank but i m thinking of buy some small submersive pump for a even better flow...


AS long as you come close to the 10X rule you will be fine but you need to arrange the filter outlets in such a ways as to to maximize their effectiveness.




Luis Batista said:


> I will remove the affected leaves and see that it helps...


The main reason for removing affected leaves is so that you don't have to look at them. Algae ridden leaves never really get better and the algae simply produces more spores which turn into more algae if you do not fix the problem.

Cheers,


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## Luis Batista (17 Aug 2014)

Hi Ceg



ceg4048 said:


> > Hi,
> > You can raise it to whatever value you want. My policy is to simply double everything to see if that was the problem. You don't have to calculate anything. Just keep it simple and  add twice as much of your dosing as you were before.





I will double the PO4.
What do you think of this to apply with a seringe:





This 2,8 ppm plus the 2,7ppm of the already made batch will double the PO4...
Lets see if it helps



ceg4048 said:


> > Everybody thinks this and everybody is wrong.
> > When you are suffering a possible CO2 related issue you should always look for a radica alteration of CO2 diffusion and flow distribution method. As I mentioned, it really is pointless to have your diffuser sittin in a corner far away from everything. The gas goes straight up and out of the tank.



I have a small diffusor like you see in the video on the corner but the spray bar on the other corner makes a flow against that glass and push the bubbles down and all over the tank. Maybe not the best way but its the way that i see that diffuses the c02 better in the tank.



ceg4048 said:


> > AS long as you come close to the 10X rule you will be fine but you need to arrange the filter outlets in such a ways as to to maximize their effectiveness.



My filter is not a big filter. Is a TETRATEC EX 700 for a about 100L tank


Thanks for your help

Best regards,

Luis Batista


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## ceg4048 (17 Aug 2014)

Luis Batista said:


> I have a small diffusor like you see in the video on the corner but the spray bar on the other corner makes a flow against that glass and push the bubbles down and all over the tank. Maybe not the best way but its the way that i see that diffuses the c02 better in the tank.


The plants do not agree with this assessment. That's why they have algae.
The best way is to pump the gas into the filter.




Luis Batista said:


> This 2,8 ppm plus the 2,7ppm of the already made batch will double the PO4...
> Lets see if it helps


It won't. You have a serious CO2 and flow/distribution problem in this tank. Serious.

Cheers.


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## Luis Batista (17 Aug 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> The plants do not agree with this assessment. That's why they have algae.
> The best way is to pump the gas into the filter.
> 
> 
> ...


I will try put the diffusor below the inlet of the filter...


Enviado através da ponta dos meus dedos!


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## Luis Batista (21 Aug 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> The plants do not agree with this assessment. That's why they have algae.
> The best way is to pump the gas into the filter.
> 
> 
> ...



Hi ceg

i just bought a small 600L/H circulation pump and i ordered a Original UP Latest Inline CO2 Atomizer Diffuser System.
i put the pump in the opposite side of the spray bar, being the spray bar in 1 side of the tank and the pump on the other, right about 3/4 cm of the surface.
I have a big alternanthera reineckii pink roseafolia in the center back of the tank but the flow can get trow and create a nice flow pattern in the tank.
So i think the circulation is improved.
About the diffusor, what do you say about this type? It is really able to dissolve more gas in the tank? It´s enought to put it on the outlet hose or its better in the inlet? My filter makes some noise when i put the glass diffusor beneath it, so i guess i will put it on the outlet hose...

best regards


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## ceg4048 (21 Aug 2014)

Luis Batista said:


> i put the pump in the opposite side of the spray bar,


This is a terrible idea. Absolutely terrible. The flow from the pump now fights against the flow from the spraybar.
All pumps must work together for maximum effectiveness. They should not fight each other.

Cheers,


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## Luis Batista (21 Aug 2014)

Yes, i already see that and change the position. it´s now almost at the same hight of the spray bar, in the same side.
And about the diffusor?
What will be your verdict about it?

Thanks for all your help


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## ceg4048 (21 Aug 2014)

Well, I always prefer to have the gas pumped to the inlet side of the filter, but I realize that it isn't always the best way because of the noise issue. Sometimes this can be reduced if you remove most of the filter media. Normally the gas will build up in the filter because of the lower flow and obstacles caused by so much media.

You might consider removing some of the filter media, especially if you have ceramic media, and this will improve the flow rate which will dissolve the gas better and will reduce the noise. If that doesn't work then leave it on the output side.

Cheers,


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## Victor (29 Sep 2014)

Hi, Luis! What's your fertilization calculator link? Thank you.


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## Luis Batista (29 Sep 2014)

Victor said:


> Hi, Luis! What's your fertilization calculator link? Thank you.



hello Victor

Here is the link: http://www.theaquatools.com/fertilization-calculator

Cheers,


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## Victor (29 Sep 2014)

Luis Batista said:


> hello Victor
> Here is the link: http://www.theaquatools.com/fertilization-calculator
> Cheers,


 Thank you so much!


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