# New Traces from Aqua Essentials



## JamesC (25 Sep 2009)

As you may or may not have noticed Aqua Essentials have changed their Trace mixture. Some have been asking for a comparrison so I have posted up a table showing the differences between them along with Plantex CSM+B and Garden Direct's Chempak Trace mix.






Plantex CSM+B is IMHO by far the best dry trace mix, but is only available in the States. I've only added it so you can see how it compares with what is available here in the UK.
AE's new trace mix is a lot weaker in the core six micros we are concerned with. This means that you will need to add a lot more of it if you wish to obtain the same levels as before. In the case of iron this is 8x more. Be aware that increasing the dosage will also increase the copper levels.
Myself and others have used Garden Direct's trace with excellent results. It does have higher copper content which may or may not be a problem for inverts. Just something to be aware of.

I find some plants seem to look better when the Boron to Zinc ratio is 2:1. A lot of trace mixes including the one I use have a 1:1 ratio so I add a little boric acid to bring the ratio up to 2:1. AE's new trace has a higher ratio of zinc than boron, ie, B:Zn in a ratio of 1:2

Generally speaking the other ratios don't seem that important as long as they are dosed regulary.


James


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## CeeJay (25 Sep 2009)

Hi
Nice one James.
Thanks for taking the time out and posting this useful information.
I was aware from their ad that AE had a 'new and improved' Trace mix, however, it seems they've reduced just about everything, in some cases by a huge margin, and then added Mg.
I hadn't paid attention to the numbers just yet as I've got enough of their old stock to last me at least 12 months    but useful info all the same.
Thanks.

Chris.


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## sjb123 (26 Sep 2009)

> AE's new trace mix is a lot weaker in the core six micros we are concerned with. This means that you will need to add a lot more of it if you wish to obtain the same levels as before. In the case of iron this is 8x more. Be aware that increasing the dosage will also increase the copper levels.


Hi James,
thank you for the information on AE's new trace mix. Can i replace the missing Iron with Iron Sulphate?

Regards Steve


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## BINKSY1973 (26 Sep 2009)

Hi all,

            I have just had a look at Fluidsensor trace mix and is very little difference to the old AE mix. 

Fe 8.4% (EDTA), Mn 1.82% (EDTA), Zn 1.16% (EDTA), B 1.05%, Cu 0.23% (EDTA), Mo 0.15%


http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/ep.../Products/PN-100-TR/SubProducts/PN-100-TR-100

Looks like this may be a good alternative with no need to dose extra amounts?


Cheers Gordon.


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## Mortis (26 Sep 2009)

Probably just needs Magnesium. Is Magnesium sulphate ok for this ? For some reason I always thought that the old AE trace did have some Mg, around 7-8%. Am I imagining this ?

We should also start a discussion on how much of each trace element is required and how much of the secondary nutrients as well,


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## BINKSY1973 (26 Sep 2009)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Probably just needs Magnesium.



It well may do, im not sure on this, although the old AE trace didn't have Magnesium in.

Cheers Gordon.


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## JamesC (27 Sep 2009)

sjb123 said:
			
		

> Can i replace the missing Iron with Iron Sulphate?


No, is the simple answer. The iron in ferrous sulphate will soon react with componds like phosphate and create an insoluble precipitate. I once added 1/8th of a teaspoon of ferrous sulphate to my 200 litre tank and about an hour later it was like milk. Iron needs to be chelated to prevent it from reacting but still available for the plants. A great chelated iron is this one from Garden Direct - http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/chelated-iron-ph-68-p-885. It uses DTPA as the chelator.



			
				Mortis said:
			
		

> Probably just needs Magnesium. Is Magnesium sulphate ok for this ? For some reason I always thought that the old AE trace did have some Mg, around 7-8%. Am I imagining this ?


Magnesium sulphate is fine and yes you are imagining it



			
				BINKSY1973 said:
			
		

> I have just had a look at Fluidsensor trace mix and is very little difference to the old AE mix.
> 
> Fe 8.4% (EDTA), Mn 1.82% (EDTA), Zn 1.16% (EDTA), B 1.05%, Cu 0.23% (EDTA), Mo 0.15%
> 
> ...


I believe that AE and Fluidsensor use the same trace so if the supplier has changed the formulation then once supplies are used up it will be gone.


It may well be a sad day for the British planted tank enthusiast who likes to dose dry trace powders as in my opinion the old AE and Fluidsensor trace was the only decent trace available in the UK. Not all is lost though. It is possible to buy the CSM+B from the States. If a few people group together then it would be cheaper.

Or what I do is buy my traces from Finland at Peter Haack's PMDD web site. It is a concentrated solution that needs to be diluted down. Superb stuff and uses the same HEEDTA chelator as Tropica's TPN. This chelator is particulary good in hard water conditions. More info is available at my website - http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm

James


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## Themuleous (27 Sep 2009)

Is it not the case that these are all still 'stronger' than TNP anyway?

Sam


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## JamesC (28 Sep 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Is it not the case that these are all still 'stronger' than TNP anyway?


Only because TPN is a solution whereas what we're talking about here are the dry powders. The solution can be made to varying strengths depending on how concentrated you want it.

James


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## JamesC (28 Sep 2009)

Great news! I've been in contact with Fluidsensor about the availability of their trace mix and this is what they have said


> I've checked with my supplier and he has no problem with stock or supply of the current formula and this is unlikely to change any time soon.


Here's the link - http://www.fluidsensoronline.com/ep.../Products/PN-100-TR/SubProducts/PN-100-TR-100
And here's the analysis:
Fe 8.4% (EDTA), Mn 1.82% (EDTA), Zn 1.16% (EDTA), B 1.05%, Cu 0.23% (EDTA), Mo 0.15%

Also as it's EDTA based there's no problem with using it in an 'all in one solution'

James


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## Mortis (28 Sep 2009)

Thats great to know thanks a lot James !


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## sjb123 (28 Sep 2009)

Thanks for that James  

Regards Steve


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## Themuleous (29 Sep 2009)

JamesC said:
			
		

> Great news! I've been in contact with Fluidsensor about the availability of their trace mix and this is what they have said
> 
> 
> > I've checked with my supplier and he has no problem with stock or supply of the current formula and this is unlikely to change any time soon.
> ...



Brill news  whats the suggestion for making a stock solution with this and what would you recommend as a dose rate?

Sam


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## JamesC (29 Sep 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> whats the suggestion for making a stock solution with this and what would you recommend as a dose rate?


It's the same as the old AE trace mix so as a guide add 10g of trace to 250ml of water and add 2.5ml per 50 litre 3x a week.

James


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## Themuleous (29 Sep 2009)

Cheers James


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## Schmill (30 Oct 2009)

Probably need to buy some Trace mix soon, and would have normally gone to AE, but seems that fluidsensoronline is the place to get it now.
Perhaps AE need to find a new supplier in order to not lose the business?  

I like AE service, and prices, and would prefer to give them the business, but in order to keep the same iron mix from the trace, (which I believe _perhaps wrongly?_ is the 'important' trace), then as mentioned above you need over 8x the amount. This drastically increases cost, but also makes me wonder what effect it will have on my fish as well as plants dosing such a high amount of magnesium as well.
It was mentioned above that the magnesium is likely in the form of Epsom Salts, which although I have used to 'treat' fish in short term baths, I was under the impression it was not good to keep the fish in a solution of them?

Does anyone know if AE asked their suplpier why the mix was changed, and if so what reasons were given?


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## a1Matt (30 Oct 2009)

Schmill said:
			
		

> makes me wonder what effect it will have on my fish as well as plants dosing such a high amount of magnesium as well.
> It was mentioned above that the magnesium is likely in the form of Epsom Salts, which although I have used to 'treat' fish in short term baths, I was under the impression it was not good to keep the fish in a solution of them?



I use the 'old trace mix' and add extra epsom salts to my tank. I have had no ill effects from this. Quite the opposite I found better growth with the added magnesium. 

Adding magnesium beyond the plants uptake requirements will raise the GH (GH = magnesium and calcium ).
If you are concerned (I would not be) you could look up what GH your fish are happy in, then measure your tanks GH.


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## Aqua Essentials (3 Nov 2009)

Schmill said:
			
		

> Probably need to buy some Trace mix soon, and would have normally gone to AE, but seems that fluidsensoronline is the place to get it now.
> Perhaps AE need to find a new supplier in order to not lose the business?
> 
> I like AE service, and prices, and would prefer to give them the business, but in order to keep the same iron mix from the trace, (which I believe _perhaps wrongly?_ is the 'important' trace), then as mentioned above you need over 8x the amount. This drastically increases cost, but also makes me wonder what effect it will have on my fish as well as plants dosing such a high amount of magnesium as well.
> ...



We've got some of the old stuff back in 

We'll get it listed shortly


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## Voo (3 Nov 2009)

Aww man, I was gearing up to place an order for CSM+B, now i'll have to work it all out again to see if it's worthwhile!

Good new though 





> We've got some of the old stuff back in
> 
> We'll get it listed shortly


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## Egmel (3 Nov 2009)

Aqua Essentials said:
			
		

> We've got some of the old stuff back in
> 
> We'll get it listed shortly


Excellent to see the speed at which this feedback was taken on board, good job guys


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## plantbrain (3 Nov 2009)

My main concern is the rather high levels of Copper in these.
I guess it's fine if you dose hardly any, but then why use it?

1:5 ratio of Cu: Fe seems way too high for things like shrimp and small fry.

Fine if you dose tiny amount or add no more than the 0.1ppm.
If you dose .5, now it's 0.1ppm of copper that will stay in solution and be available for toxicity.

I dose 0.5 to 1.0 Fe every other day or thereabouts.
0.1-0.2ppm of copper is not what I want.
0.02 to 0.05ppm is the most I generally desire.

Flourish adds much less copper, but goes too far the other direction.
I think modifying these products and adding a bit more Fe is one solution though.

If you have softer water dose more frequently as a habit, Fe gluconate, harder water, DTPA Fe.
Add a bit of the Fe, say 1/3rd by mass of the Fe amendment.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Aqua Essentials (3 Nov 2009)

Launching Trace Mix Plus

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... o=&x=0&y=0


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## Schmill (3 Nov 2009)

So "Trace Mix Plus" is just the old trace formula?

Why is the 'Plus' / Old variety now recommended only for CO2 tanks, and not those that use Carbon liquid?

I use AE's liquid carbon, and currently use their old trace mix, so wonder why it is now recommended that I should actually use the lower concentration 'new' trace mix, rather that the 'plus' / older mix.

Also has anyone used AE's 'new trace mix', made up to the same iron strength as the old mix, (8x stronger), with shrimp in the tank? 
I am concerned as to what effect the extra copper will have, although if my numbers are correct that will still be less copper than would be present in the GardenDirect mix, (although it is THEIR high copper value that kept me away from theirs).
I'm just wondering if anyone has used any of these 'higher copper' mixes with shrimp, and what if any effects were noticed?


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## plantbrain (5 Nov 2009)

I've never noted any issues with CRS, RCS or amano's with CMS+B.
I've dosed that pretty richly.

The other thing that can be done, is spike the product with some added DTPA Fe or Fe gluconate.
I have a lot of Fe gluconate, cost is relatively good, 450 grams would run about 35$ USD. and that would make an equivalent 190 liter's or thereabouts of seachem's Flourish Fe iron.

By spiking the Fe, the ratio required goes down for Fe, but up for the others.
So you dose a bit less of that and can target lower ranges.
Plants do pretty well with a wide range, but the critters and the effects of copper are really the main issue for trace mixes, not too low like Seachem flourish, but not too high either.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## zoltan (15 Nov 2009)

Hi Hi I'm new to all this i've got a 450 to 475ltr tank not even sure ,it's  a planted tank it's not doing good the plants are not growing for anything,to honest i think it's my fert i don't think i'm using enough so i wanna try dry salt and wanna know if i could buy all the diff salts for my tank including measurement


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## a1Matt (15 Nov 2009)

zoltan said:
			
		

> Hi Hi I'm new to all this i've got a 450 to 475ltr tank not even sure ,it's  a planted tank it's not doing good the plants are not growing for anything,to honest i think it's my fert i don't think i'm using enough so i wanna try dry salt and wanna know if i could buy all the diff salts for my tank including measurement



Check out the dry salts thread in the tutorial section.
Then head over to the sponsors to buy the dry salts.


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