# giant tank for killis



## killi69

Having been a ukaps member for three years, and reading many accounts of your fabulous tanks, I have finally taken the dive and have recently started my journey on trying to create a planted tank.

My background in the hobby has mainly been around the keeping of killi fish. My previous project was based around a number of 40cm cube tanks in which I bred a range of African killi species. I can't find a picture of the set up in its former glory but here is one taken in its early days.





I have since moved house and now live in a flat and have neither the room nor the time for the kind of intensive fish keeping I was previously engaged with.

I have always wanted to create a large planted aquarium to show off the vibrant colours and interesting behaviour of killifish. When I saw an ad on eBay for a 5 ft tank for less than £300, incl T5 lighting, Eheim II Pro, two other power filters, RO unit and lots of other stuff, I could not resist the temptation.

The traditional way of keeping killifish is in small tanks (10-20l tanks are common), with dim lighting, gentle sponge filtration systems (if at all) and usually only one species per tank. This will be a tank of gigantic proportions in comparison and will house a number of different species of killis with sufficient lighting and flow to allow for a lavish display of plants.





I have lots to learn and look forward to sharing my pitfalls and (fingers crossed) successes with you over the next few months.


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## foxfish

Nice buy, good luck with the project.


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## sarahtermite

What a great plan! I recently bought my first pair of killis (_Aphiosemion australe_); they're housed in my 2ft tank, and I love them. The male is particularly inquisitive and whenever I'm up close looking in, he's usually there looking right back at me. I'd love to get more, but that tank's at capacity now. Plus I wasn't sure it would be possible/right to keep more than one species in a tank. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how your tank develops.


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## killi69

Thank you foxfish and sarah.  I like the killis for their behaviour - it's all about the display from the colourful males really I suppose -  always sparring with each other or trying to mate a female (sounds like another species we all know  ).

I suffered my first major set back within an hour of having moved the tank and cabinet into my flat.  While admiring my new tank my heart sank.





I don't know how it happened.  Before I went to pick up the tank, I had asked the seller fill it up again so we could check for leaks.  I inspected the tank before buying it and am pretty sure I would have noticed the crack and chipped glass in the corner.  I had asked the man with the van to be a bit more gentle with the tank while shifting it into his lorry and we did struggle quite a bit to place the tank into position onto the cabinet.

The significance of this small crack on the back window took a while to sink in. I filled the tank with some water to see if it leaked. It didn't and I overcame my initial shock by telling myself that as the tank is not leaking and the crack is only small and sits within the siliconed area, it should all be ok. Also the tank has a double base and is made of 10mm glass. I spoke to some other tank enthusiasts who advised me to buy some braces to glue alongside the bottom/ side panels to bring together the back and front panels of the tank.

I had some thick glass strips cut (5cm wide) to glue in as braces for extra support.


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## killi69

I ordered matching Juwel Rock panels for the sides of the tank.  This is not really my favourite type of background (I prefer the plain black Juwel Strata) but as the tank already had a background in it, I went for the option of ordering matching panels for the sides to save money. I have always had backgrounds on the sides of my tanks (I am Dutch lol). I like the enclosed feeling this gives - more of a viewing box kind of thing - and also provides opportunities to cover the walls with ferns, moss or anubias.





As the first week went by, I grew more and more concerned about the crack in the glass.  In the end, I decided against keeping the tank as I realised I would always be worrying about this weak spot and would forever wonder if my flat will be flooded when I get home from work or holiday.

So, I sold my 5 foot tank for £30 on Gumtree and made someone who was looking for a larger home for his turtles very happy.  At least I still had a wooden cabinet, two great pumps and other equipment left over from the sale, so it was not a complete loss of my £285 investment.   

I decided to have a brand new tank built and while I waiting for its delivery will fix up the cabinet and get other things (such as CO2/ hardscape materials/ plan list etc) sorted. What started as a spontaneous initiative to buy a bargain tank with everything included and ready to go is fast turning into a much bigger (and more costly  ) project.


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## sarahtermite

What a nightmare! But - even though it's not working out precisely as you'd initially envisaged, at least this way you get a brand new tank! Plus you'll have peace of mind; I'd have done the same in your shoes, otherwise I'd always have this niggling worry that it might start leaking.

And does this mean that you won't need the backgrounds you bought, either?


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## killi69

Yes, it was my way of coming to terms with the loss of my tank - the pressure was on to make sure that both the new tank and unit will look brand new.

I still have the backgrounds left over (another wasted £60 added to total cost of the project, which is quickly spiralling out of control   ). I will sell them on at some stage.


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## killi69

A carpenter friend painted the cabinet and light hood white for me and fitted a higher rim to go around the front and sides of the cabinet, replacing the old rim.  The rim will hide the bottom part of the tank, allowing for 5cm of gravel to be hidden from view.  Also decided not to have any handles on the doors of the cabinet.  This gives it flusher look and makes the middle door of the unit look more central.

It's already looking great, the only thing missing is my new tank.


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## dw1305

Hi all,
I'm a big Killi fan as well, I have _Poropanchax normani_ at present, but I used to have a big tank (4' with about 8" of water and lots of emergents) with just _Pseudepiplatys annulatus_ in it, and they formed a self sustaining colony.

I keep on thinking about a setting a new tank up with _Aphyosemion (Diapteron) cyanostictum or fulgens_, mainly because I like a challenge. 

PM when you are set up if you want some food cultures, I've got Vinegar eels, Banana worms, Vestigial winged _Drosophila_ etc.

When you get your big new tank I would definitely go for a paludarium.

cheers Darrel


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## creg

gonna watch this with interest looks like its going to be amazing, good buy from ebay too (apart from finding the crack)


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## ian_m

killi69 said:
			
		

> .....
> 
> ...


If thats MDF make sure it is super super waterproofed as any water accidentally spilled (or leaking from a cracked tank, if you had one  ) would cause it to turn to a soggy mush and disintegrate.


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## killi69

> by creg » Fri May 04, 2012 1:26 pm
> 
> gonna watch this with interest looks like its going to be amazing, good buy from ebay too (apart from finding the crack)


Thank you Creg.  I am a bit nervous, having never done a blog before or attempted such a large tank.  I am playing catch up writing this journal and hope to be in real time by tomorrow.



> by ian_m » Fri May 04, 2012 1:30 pm
> 
> If thats MDF make sure it is super super waterproofed as any water accidentally spilled (or leaking from a cracked tank, if you had one  ) would cause it to turn to a soggy mush and disintegrate.


The rim is made from MDF I am afraid.  Thank you very much for this information Ian.  




> by dw1305 » Fri May 04, 2012 12:41 pm
> 
> Hi all,
> I'm a big Killi fan as well, I have Poropanchax normani at present, but I used to have a big tank (4' with about 8" of water and lots of emergents) with just Pseudepiplatys annulatus in it, and they formed a self sustaining colony.
> 
> I keep on thinking about a setting a new tank up with Aphyosemion (Diapteron) cyanostictum or fulgens, mainly because I like a challenge.
> 
> PM when you are set up if you want some food cultures, I've got Vinegar eels, Banana worms, Vestigial winged Drosophila etc.
> 
> When you get your big new tank I would definitely go for a paludarium.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I used to keep breeding groups of P annulatus together with Aphyosemion amoenum in one of the 40cm cubes described at the start of my journal.  I found that if I kept them in rain water, I could fish out baby fry from both species every week. I also kept Diapteron fulgens (in rain water as well) but never managed to breed them.  From what I remember, they liked to be kept in the dark and were quite shy but a really stunning fish with amazing colours.  Also quite expensive - I paid more than £20 a pair for them and that was at a British Killifish Association auction where killis are relatively cheap.

Lampeye killis, Poropanchax normani, are one of the species I am planning for this tank also!  At least these killis are among the few that are known to like flowing water.  What kind of water do you keep them in?

The issue of soft water will be a major factor in a 540l tank.  I am planning to follow the EI route so 50% water changes with rain water or RO will take some effort.   I will be going with RO but have not exactly worked out a system for water changes with RO, or how to store the RO.  Luckily I am not on a water meter so RO is an option providing I sort out how to store the RO water I will be producing.

Thank you so much for your offer of starter cultures for rearing any fry.  I had told myself that I was going to keep the killis for display purposes only but I might not be able to resist the urge to breed them  .

Paludarium??  That is dream for another time ... Dendrobatus poison arrow frogs with some South American killis ...   No, this tank will be for West African killifish only.


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## killi69

I will be using a mixture of cat litter and bonzai clay http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/pr...=2193&osCsid=10de2fddc4d059e9e16332e77b8068ac for substrate and spent many happy hours washing it.  In the end I set up a little system for washing the clay (before the hosepipe ban came into force off course   ).




I used 60l of bonzai clay and 50l of cat litter.




The cat litter on the right was a little bit darker than the bonzai clay.  Rinsing it took much longer though.


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## killi69

The tank I ordered (5x2x2) will have black paint on the back and sides.  I also asked for them to use black silicone.  I know that many people do not like the look of black silicone as it creates the illusion of a frame in an all glass tank but as my tank will have the sides and back blacked out, I think the black silicone will look better against the painted panels.  The front window will also look better for it I think (where the sides meet the front).

To help camouflage the tubing for the filters, I have spray painted them black using a spray paint called Krylon Fusion http://www.patrolbase.co.uk/details1.asp/ProductID/540/sid/133/krylon-fusion-black.htm.  I was sceptical at first about whether this could be done but after Googling 'Krylon Fusion fish' I came across many references on various forums recommending this for use inside the tank.


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## killi69

I bought three large pieces of Redmoor wood.




and have been soaking them in the garden waste bin




Here is how I plan to use them

















Any feedback very welcome


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## Ady34

Loving the detail of this journal...substrate washing techniques and wood soaking photos, i love seeing this stuff, we all do it, but its nice to see the unseen work! Keep us posted.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## killi69

After a LONG wait, the tank has finally arrived.  We were able to lift it onto the cabinet without any problems - or cracks appearing anywhere this time!

I am very pleased with the result.  The finishing on the tank is superb - a big thank you to Greg at the Aquatic Design Centre for organising this for me.  Well worth the wait and in hindsight the crack in the first tank was the best thing that could have happened.  I would never have had such good looking tank or cabinet otherwise.  If only the inside will look half as nice, I will be happy.


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## killi69

> by Ady34 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:40 pm
> 
> Loving the detail of this journal...substrate washing techniques and wood soaking photos, i love seeing this stuff, we all do it, but its nice to see the unseen work! Keep us posted.
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Thank you Ady!  Look forward to getting this journal up to date.  One more post (below) and we will be in real time.


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## killi69

OK, so the tank arrived yesterday and today I have been busy getting the substrate, wood and water into the tank.  

One big draw back I only now discovered of having a large tank; you need something to stand on to get in there! And difficult to have your hand in while looking through window at the same time.  I foresee problems trying to catch any fish released into this tank.  




Had some left-over Tropica substrate which I put on the bottom together with a sprinkling of peat and some slow release fertiliser granules.














Here we go




The wood has been soaking for four weeks yet after a few hours sitting on dry gravel while I arranged the layout, some pieces are not sinking completely. Really like the way the rim at the front hides 5cm of substrate.


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## awtong

This journal has great detail.  

I really like your Redmoor root pieces.

I have the same problem with trying to look through the front glass while doing tank maintanence up a step ladder.  Having a Juwel Vision 450l and being a short blahblahblahblah is hard work   

Andy


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## sarahtermite

I think the black tank, with the white cabinet and hood is going to look stunning against your planting. I agree, I like the substrate hidden, I think it frames the 'picture' of the aquascape really nicely. Lovely wood you've chosen, too. But I think almost my favourite picture was the one of all the washed substrate!   

Can't wait to see this planted up!


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## BigTom

Great depth already, I suspect this is going to be a belter once done.


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## killi69

> This journal has great detail.
> 
> I really like your Redmoor root pieces.
> 
> I have the same problem with trying to look through the front glass while doing tank maintanence up a step ladder. Having a Juwel Vision 450l and being a short blahblahblahblah is hard work
> 
> Andy


Thanks Andy.  I am going to need someone at front to help coordinate what I am doing from the top lol



> by sarahtermite » Sat May 05, 2012 8:55 am
> 
> I think the black tank, with the white cabinet and hood is going to look stunning against your planting. I agree, I like the substrate hidden, I think it frames the 'picture' of the aquascape really nicely. Lovely wood you've chosen, too. But I think almost my favourite picture was the one of all the washed substrate!
> 
> Can't wait to see this planted up!
> 
> 
> by BigTom » Sat May 05, 2012 11:48 am
> 
> Great depth already, I suspect this is going to be a belter once done.




Thank you Sarah and Tom.  I hope to put together a plant list over the weekend and will be sharing this with you shortly.  I hope this tank will live up to its expectation


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## killi69

Bought CO2 equipment and fertilisers from a ukaps member a few weeks ago.





I am new to CO2 but have seen a few references on this forum about 2kg cannisters not lasting very long on a 5ft tank.  I really would not know but decided to source a larger bottle anyway.  A 5kg fire extinguisher would not fit in my cabinet.  I was fortunate that 'Mr Fizz' in Uxbridge could sort me out with an unusual sized cannister; 6kg - 61cm tall - diameter 18cm.  £20 a refill and £50 deposit.




To make it fit, a hole was cut in the base of the cabinet and it fits neatly behind the post taking up little space.




This evening I will be attempting to set up the CO2 and power filters.


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## foxfish

I cant think of many better ways to spend a Saturday evening LOL good luck with tonight's project.


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## killi69

Thank you Foxfish. I spent six hours Saturday night setting up the filters and CO2 system.

I was not the CO2 that gave me any trouble, as I thought it might.  I had a couple of mishaps with the power filters I inherited with the original tank I bought.  I first tried to get the Eheim Pro II up and running but I snapped off one of the inlets for the filter tube  .




Then I set up a Hailea filter which leaked water all over the place.  A few hours later and third time lucky, the Aqua Pro4 was working fine.  I have since ordered a replacement part for the Eheim and will leave the Aqua Pro running with the lights switched off until the plants arrive.

I have put together a plant list and rough layout for the design.




Behind the wood on either sides I was planning a curtain of C. balansae.  At the front and in the lower parts of the substrate towards the back, a carpet of E. parvula, with some E. tenellus mixed in at the edges.  This carpet would end at the back with E. acicularis as a focal point, with some A. crispus red at either side.

The pieces of wood I wanted to plant up with Microsorium narrow, M. needle/ trident if I can get hold of any, Bolbitus heudelotii, and few anubias petite.

If anyone has any criticisms or suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Thanks,

Andre


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## Morgan Freeman

Looking good so far!

Whereabouts is Mr Fizz in Uxbridge?


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## killi69

Hi there.  Here is where I got my CO2 from;

Mr Fizz (part of a company called Oak Farm Leisure)
High Street
Cowley
Uxbridge UB8 2EQ
01895 811116


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## killi69

Last weekend, I fitted the second filter and the water has cleared up considerably.  I also added more substrate -a whopping 120l in total- and made final adjustments to wood and gravel.  I like the way the top bits of both pieces of wood  seem to flow from left to right. I am a bit worried that the cat litter is piled up a little too steep in places and might level out easily.  Hopefully the plants will help keep it all in place.




Close to the front window I buried a cocus shell to hopefully observe the breeding behaviour of Pelvichromis taeniatus, the only non killis I will have in the tank.  All the fish will come from the Cameron/ Nigeria region.




Plants have been ordered and should all be arriving later this week;

_Anubias nana 'petite'
Aponogeton crispus 'red'
Bolbitus heudelotti
Crinium calamistratum
Cryptocoryne balansae
Cryptocoryne lucens
Cryptocoryne nevilli
Cryptocoryne parva
Echinodorus tenullus
Eleocharis acicularis
Eleocharis parvula
Eleocharis Xingua
Eleocharis vivipara
Microsorium p. 'needle'
Microsorium p. 'trident'_

Can't wait to get it planted up!


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## creg

where did you get that wood from? its amazing


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## killi69

Hi creg, the wood comes from London Aquatics.  They still have some really good pieces left.


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## killi69

I mean Aquatic Design Centre!


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## Eboeagles

Love the scape. That wood is definitely impressive Tom Barr would be proud!!

Watching this for sure


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## Tim Harrison

So far looking good, and I admire your meticulous preparation. 

It has actually set me to thinking though...

...after reading this and countless other journals, that a lot of us are actually perfectionists? Which is actually no bad thing since it takes all sorts to make the world go round. But is it a prerequisite of our particular brand of the hobby?

Or is it the case that you don't have to be mad but it helps...so to speak?


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## killi69

Thank you Eboeagles and Troi.  Perfectionist or just a bit obsessed with an object taking less space than two square metres?  Keeps us off the streets lol.

Prior to placing the wood in the tank, I have spent countless hours playing around with different combination of the woods, in all sorts of different positions (ahem...).  To make matters far more complicated I actually bought a fourth piece of wood so there were endless possibilities.  This piece of wood was originally my favourite as it had three main legs and could be placed at all sorts of different angles.  Might take it back to the shop or keep it for a future project...


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## Tim Harrison

> Prior to placing the wood in the tank, I have spent countless hours playing around with different combination of the woods, in all sorts of different positions (ahem...).



Was that a "Carry On" moment?  

Trust me if it's that good keep it. Good wood seems to be increasingly difficult to come by these days.


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## WabiKasuH20Fall

Eboeagles said:
			
		

> Love the scape. That wood is definitely impressive Tom Barr would be proud!!
> 
> Watching this for sure



That's exactly what I though once I realized that this person is too far from Mr. Barr for those to be from his stockpile. Who knows maybe he sells to ADC.... 

I too love Killi's my first introduction was a Golden Wonder I got on accident as a Juvi with a bunch of feeder guppies. He grew quite large and before he finally lept out the tank to his demise I was hand feeding him Mosquito hawks, and any other large insect I could toss in there. Right now I have one solo Lampeye Killi in one tank and a pair of  Aphyosemion australe in my planted 25L.  They are gorgeous and I cant wait to pick up a few more species. My next killi's plant to be Clown Killi's as I have access to them from AFA here is San Francisco and they seem to keep them stocked pretty regularly. 

Here is a shot of my Aphyosemion australe pair that I received via a RAOK from one of my local sfbaaps.org club members.

Aphyosemion australe




Good luck I look forward to seeing this one unfold, I will be following from across the Pond as they say!


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## killi69

Thanks WabiKasuH20Fall.  I think there is much more potential for people to show off killifish in their planted tanks.  Killis are stunning fish, quite rare and unusual, great companions in my opinion for the beautiful and unique display tanks seen on this forum.   Its a shame we don't see more of them on this forum, just like its a shame most killifish keepers dont bother with planted tanks.

Fish jumping out of tank can be big problem - no open top tanks with kills. I am planning to keep lampeyes also, a big shoal of them. Will probably be the first fish I introduce to the tank as they are often quite small when you buy them and I will give them a chance to grow a little before releasing some larger killis in there.


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## killi69

Had a busy weekend planting up the tank.  Will be spending the next few weeks getting to grips with CO2 regulation and fertilisation.

Started EI dosing and 2x T5 lighting on for six hours with generous CO2 levels which I will start bringing down slowly in the weeks prior to fish arriving.

In the end, I ditched a few species from my plant list.  Final list;

_Anubias nana 'petite'
Aponogeton crispus 'red'
Bolbitus heudelotti
Cryptocoryne balansae
Cryptocoryne nevilli
Eleocharis acicularis
Eleocharis parvula
Eleocharis Retroflexa
Microsorium p. 'needle'
Microsorium p. 'trident'_

First pics


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## creg

.


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## jbirley

This is really gorgeous, that wood is awesome! cant wait to see it fill out.


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## pariahrob

Wow, that looks superb. Looks like the tank has been going ages. Nice job!


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## Derek Tweedie

I love killis I've had many species over the years. Since your tank is quite large and killis are generally quite small have you thought about adding a larger species like Fundulopanchax sjoestedti?


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## creg

why not add some african species, like a big school of congo tetra etc


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## Ady34

looking great and very Natural. Im sure the killis will love mixing in the plants and wood.


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## killi69

> by jbirley » Tue May 22, 2012 1:08 pm
> 
> This is really gorgeous, that wood is awesome! cant wait to see it fill out.


Thank you.  I am happy with the wood also.  Took me over 12 hours to tie all the ferns onto it!    



> pariahrob » Tue May 22, 2012 1:46 pm
> Wow, that looks superb. Looks like the tank has been going ages. Nice job!





> by Ady34 » Tue May 22, 2012 3:40 pm
> looking great and very Natural. Im sure the killis will love mixing in the plants and wood.


Thank you both. I found it quite hard to judge how many plants would be needed.  In the end I ordered far too many - 54 pots of crypt too many to be precise  - 19 pots of C. lucens (most of which I have now sold on) and 35 C. willisii which will be arriving tomorrow. I decided to only use one species of crypt (C. nevilii) to create a more natural look.  I have read that C willisii and C nevillii are the same, so I might just cram in some more of the willisii when they come in tomorrow.


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## killi69

> Derek Tweedie » Tue May 22, 2012 2:06 pm
> 
> I love killis I've had many species over the years. Since your tank is quite large and killis are generally quite small have you thought about adding a larger species like Fundulopanchax sjoestedti?


I know it is a beautiful species and from the right region for my tank.  Just look at this picture of F. sjoestedti 'Niger delta' _(source;rb5killifish.blogspot.com)_ 




At the British Killifish Association auction last month these jewels were going for £5 a pair.  I have seen them in the shop selling for £30 a pair!  Unfortunately, they will grow too large for my liking - 13cm.  I know its a 5ft tank but a killi this size will really restrict the other killis I will be able to keep it with, so I will probably not go for this one.



> creg » Tue May 22, 2012 3:03 pm
> why not add some african species, like a big school of congo tetra etc


The tank will be stocked with West African fish only from Nigeria or Cameroon.  

There are a few killis that shoal. I am thinking of going for a large shoal of lamp eyes, *Aplocheilichthys normani*.  Another reason I could not keep F. sjoestedti as they only grow to 4-5cm.  
_pic source http://cgi.ebay.in/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VIS ... 0706364460_




A challenge with keeping several species of killis in a community tank is that the females of the Aphyosemion group  look very similar, making it difficult to select a pair for breeding in the future.  Also some species can interbreed (usually producing infertile hybrids) and mixing Aphyosemion species in a tank is often frowned upon in the killi keeper community for this reason.

I am thinking of going for *Fundulopanchax gardneri*, possibly F. g. nigerianus “Akure”
_pic source http://www.gardneri.fische-killifische.de_



The female on the right is typical of females in the Aphyosemion group

Females from the *Chromaphyosemion splendopleure* are an exception as they have a clearly visible band running along their width.
_pic source; http://www.chroma.fische-killifische.de_



At the April BKA auction, I bought three pairs of Chromaphyosemion splendopleure, from the “Tiko/ Big Ikange Camp” location. 
_pic source; http://www.chroma.fische-killifische.de_




In terms of non killi tank mates from the region, I am considering Pelvicachromis, possibly *Pelvicachromis taeniatus* 'Nigeria Red' as pictured below.  Clearly much larger than any of the killis, I think/hope the tank will be large enough with plenty of plants and hiding places to allow for the Pelvicachromis to co-exist with the killis, even when breeding.
_pic source; http://www.flickriver.com/photos/aquarianer/6658657989_




Also thinking about *Microsynodontis batesii*, although these will have to wait for quite a while to allow the plants to become fully established as I am a bit worried these little fellows will level the mounds of gravel i have so carefully created. 
_pic source; http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/Mi ... is-batesii_


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## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - update day 15*












Good growth on needle. Crypts are growing roots nicely (as they are planted in cat litter, they do still come up easily).

Added some more plants.  Was able to pick up some Anubias bonsai and petite. Also transferred some rare plants from my office tank which I obtained through Dutch planted tank forums;



Nymphoides ezannoi and Potamogeton schweinfurthii 




Potamogeton gayi 

Had some algae issues, as described in this thread http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21848.  I changed the direction of the flow from one of the filter outlets containing CO2.  I use spray bars mounted vertically at both back corners (connected to in-line UP atomiser). 

*Before both spraybars pointed to the front.*




*Now one of the spray bars points towards the flow created by the output of the second filter (shown in pink).* 



The outcome seems to be that the flow from both filters now complement each other and there is stronger current going on (left to right at the back and right to left at the front). Fingers crossed that this addresses the issue and that problems are not shifted to another place instead!

Over the weekend, I went to the annual Midland Charity Fish Auction in Redditch run by TA Aquaculture. 






These auctions are a really good opportunity to pick up (often unusual and rare) fish at super low prices, plus get to talk to the breeders and gain valuable tips on how to look after/ breed them.  Prices were ridiculously low; for example _breeding_ pairs of electric blue rams were going for £4 a pair, pairs of kribs for £3 etc.

I was able to constrain myself and only bought one pair of fish , who had the honour to be the first to go in.

Chromaphyosemion bivittatum "Funge" 







Really need to get some snails and shrimps in there.  Since this tank will house fish from Nigeria and Cameroon, ottos and the other standard algae-eating fish are out.  Have been doing some research to see if I can find any shrimps from that region - have found names of species but nowhere that sells them.
So will probably have to make an exception and buy some non African snails and shrimps.  Probably red ramshorns and amano shrimps.

Thanks for looking,

Andre


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## creg

*Re: giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*


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## Polyester

*Re: giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*

Like it a lot! Cant wait to see how it develops and mature! Big


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## Little-AL

*Re: giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*

This is a sure fire stunner waiting to mature! Love the intended fish choice... Will be a nice change from the norm!

Wish i'd known about that fish event, live really close to Redditch! Is it a regular occurrence?


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*



> by Polyester » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:41 pm
> 
> Like it a lot! Cant wait to see how it develops and mature!


Thanks Polyester.  I can't wait either - which is why I keep scouring plant forums here and elsewhere for more ferns to fill it out .  Have since added some more (thanks to JohnC, antipofish and ghostworld) and found a rare Microsorium on a Dutch plant forum which should arrive later this week; M. p. 'Thorn's hammer'.



> by Little-AL » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:19 pm
> 
> This is a sure fire stunner waiting to mature! Love the intended fish choice... Will be a nice change from the norm!
> 
> Wish i'd known about that fish event, live really close to Redditch! Is it a regular occurrence?


Cheers Little-Al. The auctions at Redditch are annual events, organised by TA Aquaculture, usually in June.  Other fish auctions are held at the same venue, including the British Cichlid Association.  TA Aquaculture's website http://www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/ usually has details of forthcoming auctions in the area, as well as the auctions of the British Killifish Association where I source most of my killis.

I have a shipment of 75 lampeye killifish and 50 amano shrimps arriving on Tuesday from Singapore.  I know I am taking a bit of a risk to add such large numbers to my tank in one go, and without quarantine as well.  Hopefully I can manage the extra load with additional water changes in the first few days...

Will post update with some pics later in the week.


----------



## joncairns

*giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*

Fantastic aquarium,you have put so much work into it.Are you a BKA member ? Wondered if you know when their next auction is ? I went to the one in Surrey in April,but can't remember if they hold another one there,or whether it just one very year.

Thanks,

Jon


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*

 thanks Jon. Yes, I am a BKA member.  There are a few auctions coming up. The next one will be in York on 15 July. The BKA will then hold their annual convention in Buxton (Derbyshire) on the weekend of the 5-7 October, which will include two auctions (including all the prize winning showfish at the end). The next auction in Weybridge has been pencilled in for 9 September, but the date still needs to be confirmed.   These auctions are definitely worth attending if you are interested in killifish, prices are really cheap, fish are rare and breeders are on hand to offer advice.  I will post a separate thread soon in the fish section with full details of these killi auctions.


----------



## joncairns

*giant tank for killis - photo update day 15*

Thank you very much,will look out for your post,and try to get along at least to the Weybridge auction in September.

Jon


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - update month 3*

Well over two months since my last post, time for an update.

Since my last post, I have suffered a major outbreak of hydra;







Probably introduced with the glassworms I have been feeding my fish.  Quite fascinating little creatures, I enjoyed watching them catch live daphnia - their tentacles stunning the daphnia and pulling it towards their centre to get eaten.  The fun soon wore off when every leaf in the tank was infested by them.  A treatment of Flubendazole got rid of them quickly enough.

A more serious setback though was the melting of my anubias and worse, my Potamogeton schweinfurthii, a rare plant that I have now completely lost.  Also the E. Parvula started going yellow and dying on me. 




Clearly, I needed to work on my flow and distribution as the CO2 was not reaching the bottom of the tank - at 60cm deep this can be a bit of a challenge.  After gaining some advice - on the CO2 section of this great forum - 
(http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22048&p=225760&hilit=killi69#p225760) I went ahead with a plan to make two spray bars spanning the length of the tank.  One at the back, just below the surface, pointing forwards.  The other spray bar, mounted at the top of the front panel, pointing downwards and injecting CO2 towards the gravel.  This way, the CO2 had the shortest route to the bottom and the combination of both bars would help create a strong circular current.

In the thread referred to above, ceg4048 posted this picture and explained;





> ... imagine looking at the tank from the right side panel. You want to form a tube along the long axis of the tank that looks from the side like this image below. The front of the tank would be on your left (where the airplane is in this image) and the back of the tank is on the right. Flow moves up from the bottom, goes across the top to the left, and then down, to be pulled across the bottom to start the cycle again.



Spray bars made from white PVC tubing;










I bought an Eheim Pro3 filter, which, connected to the bar on the back panel, is powerful enough for the spray to reach the front window (60cm away). I think I have managed to achieve the effect ceg was referring to.




This has really made a massive difference and the plants are so much happier now.  I have over the last few months added more ferns and as you can see, everything has filled out considerably.

















Also bought some Microsorum p. 'short narrow leaf' from Aquamoos in Germany, described as the smallest java fern, supposedly not growing taller than 8cm but usually staying between 3-5 cm.  Came supplied on neat little mats measuring about 4 square cm.




Also bought some Bolbitis heteroclita from Aquamoos as well as some Bolbitis 'spec baby' from an eBay seller.  I tied the M. p. short narrow leaf and B. baby spec to the higher ends of the branches in the tank, which are fast disappearing in a mass of green!




The Aponogeton Crispus Reds at the back of the tank are growing well now.  A little too well almost.  One has grown so large that I am concerned they might become too overwhelming.  This large specimen has produced a massive stalk - about 5ft long! - with a flower at the end.  








As for the fish, I have been patient and waiting for the right ones to come along. So far, I only have;

_Chromaphyosemion splendopleure 'Tiko Big Ikanga Camp'_ - 3 pairs




and
_Fundulopanchax gardneri makurdi_ - 3 pairs




Also, some Amano shrimps which have been a little timid since the introduction of the F. garderi.  Since the gardneris have been introduced, the shrimps have been clinging to the top of a branch in a far corner of the tank and a few have even escaped.  Not sure if this is definitely due the boisterous behaviour of the fish though.  In the beginning, the gardneris did chase the shrimps a little but have now given up and I think the shrimps (2 weeks on) are slowly starting to explore the tank again.

Still waiting for a shoal of 75 normanii lampeyes.  ADC have ordered them in twice for me, and both times all fish perished in quarantine...


----------



## nry

Good to see the spray bars have had such a positive effect - I've also ditched my lily pipes in favour of the same thing, as it really seems to offer a noticeably better result!


----------



## Ady34

Looking absolutely fantastic Andre  
The spraybars have had a noticeable effect, I remember reading that thread where Clive posted that pic and it's great to see its effects put into practice and the benefits to be gained from persistence and following good advice.
It's looking like the natural haven you had planned for your killis now!
Really like it.
Cheerio
Ady


----------



## Dan Wiggett

Stunning tank, bravo!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

looking really smart now killi, good to see the spraybars have done their work.
Lovely looking killi's too mate, looking forward to seeing what else goes in.  When i had lampeye's they looked very cool with blue leds as moonlight, if you dont feel weird being watched from the darkness


----------



## killi69

Thank you nry, Ady, Splinun and Iain. The spray bars seem to have really helped deliver the CO2 effectively.  Also, they are hardly noticeable.  The spray bar on the back panel is barely visible (spray bars are black against black background) and the one running along the top of the front panel is completely hidden from view by the hood of the tank.

I am so pleased with the tank.  It is definitely the look I was after but I am really amazed with how good it is all looking after just three months, better than I could have ever hoped.  I have been very fortunate to have obtained masses of ferns through ukaps and large amounts of trident ferns through Dutch forums.  These have helped fill out the 'islands' in my tank and have brought me closer to the look I am trying to create -  fresh water fern reef beds.

Really pleased with a huge portion of Microsorum p. petite which I received today from Ady - big thank you  I placed them at the front left and right corners of the 'island' on the left and on the right front corner of the island on the right.


----------



## killi69

> by easerthegeezer » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:14 pm
> 
> looking really smart now killi, good to see the spraybars have done their work.
> Lovely looking killi's too mate, looking forward to seeing what else goes in. When i had lampeye's they looked very cool with blue leds as moonlight, if you dont feel weird being watched from the darkness


Hi Iain, your idea sounds cool. Do you have any pics of what this blue led light looks like? Are you referring to spotlights? Do you have any specifications of these lights??

In my 'wish list' of design ideas, I had saved the photos below I had come across online of some guy who had fitted spotlights to create a moonlight effect after the main lights go out, which I quite liked;


----------



## Iain Sutherland

it was just the cheap led strips from ebay mate, nothing special but worked well.  Im sure if you tried a few different ones the results would vary... maybe a UV tube would work well???


----------



## killi69

For those who might be interested in killis - the British Killifish Association will be holding its next bi-annual southern auction on Sunday 9th September.

The auction will be held at West Molesey Scout Hut, St Peter's Rd, West Molesey, Surrey KT8 2QE.

This is a great opportunity to pick up some stunning fish at a fraction of LFS prices.  Most of the fish on offer would not be available in LFSs anyway.  Many are rare and bred pure to the locations from which they were collected.





For those who have not been to a fish auction like this before, the format is as follows;  Before the auction starts, buyers have a chance to take a good look at all the fish displayed on the auction table.  This is also an opportunity to find out more about the fish you fancy by asking others or speaking to the breeder of the fish you like.  People are very friendly and keen to offer advice to beginners.

The auction starts at 1pm. Entrance fee is £2 and you do not have to be a member of the BKA.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

ooh im well up for that just to look about, thanks for the post!


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*



> by killi69 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:02 am
> Amano shrimps have been a little timid since the introduction of the F. garderi. Since the gardneris have been introduced, the shrimps have been clinging to the top of a branch in a far corner of the tank and a few have even escaped. Not sure if this is definitely due the boisterous behaviour of the fish though. In the beginning, the gardneris did chase the shrimps a little but have now given up and I think the shrimps (2 weeks on) are slowly starting to explore the tank again.



This evening I found out why...













The poor shrimp was still alive while being taken on a tour of the tank by the F. gardeneri.  After a while I observed that none of my gardeneri males looked nine months pregnant so I assume the shrimp did not get eaten.  At least, not whole anyway.  This explains why I hardly see any of the fifty Amanos I released into the tank  .  They say that if it can fit into a fish's mouth, other critters can be considered as food but this killi was taking this a bit too far.





Real shame though, quite liked the idea of having shrimps in the tank - to look at as well as help with the maintenance.  Maybe I can still try adult Amanos, these certainly would not fit in their mouths!  I am still planning to introduce a pair of Pelvicachromis taeniatus, so I suppose I might still run the risk of the same thing happening again?  Although I have read accounts of people keeping them together with Amanos, but I had read the same about F. garderis as well.  Starting to get a bit worried about my lampeyes which are hopefully due for arrival quite soon...


----------



## Gill

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*

The Tank looks so mature and inviting, real jungle feel to it. 
And Been there with Killies and Amano shrimp. Mine were panchax and they ate amanos and ate my normans lampeyes.


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*



> by Gill » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:46 am
> Been there with Killies and Amano shrimp. Mine were panchax and they ate amanos and ate my normans lampeyes.


I hope I will be ok introducing the lampeyes. Panchax killis do grow quite a bit bigger than the garderis. The lampeyes I am ordering are size 'medium to large' which hopefully will be too large for the garderis.  Someone told me today that maybe I am not feeding them enough.  I also remember reading somewhere about a theory that suggests we 'train' our fish to eat shrimps by feeding them brine shrimp and the like.  I did feed the fish frozen mysis last night so maybe this theory is correct lol. 




> The Tank looks so mature and inviting, real jungle feel to it.


Cheers Gill.  I am starting to have doubts about the suitability of the Aponogeton Crispus Red - I think it might grow a bit too large for my tank.  I don't mind the size of most of them as they are now but do not really like the huge leaves of the one on the left.  Maybe it is so big because it is flowering but I have a feeling that the others are fast catching up and soon will reach the same size ...



Not sure whether I could cut most of the leaves off the large one to encourage new and smaller leaves to start forming (virtually all its leaves are X large).  Would this work??


----------



## Gill

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*



			
				killi69 said:
			
		

> by Gill » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:46 am
> Been there with Killies and Amano shrimp. Mine were panchax and they ate amanos and ate my normans lampeyes.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope I will be ok introducing the lampeyes. Panchax killis do grow quite a bit bigger than the garderis. The lampeyes I am ordering are size 'medium to large' which hopefully will be too large for the garderis.  Someone told me today that maybe I am not feeding them enough.  I also remember reading somewhere about a theory that suggests we 'train' our fish to eat shrimps by feeding them brine shrimp and the like.  I did feed the fish frozen mysis last night so maybe this theory is correct lol.
Click to expand...


Could be, Lampeye M/L are usually just over 1cm. As the ones ordered a few weeks ago came in mixed S/M labelled ML. I would be tempted to order L or bigger. 

I just bought a large group of Clown Killies to try again, as they price was silly not to buy them. Have to collect them later on today from the Drop off point.


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*

Just checked with supplier and the lampeyes are almost adult size, so I will go for it. Will post some pics when they arrive.

I used to keep Clown killis. Beautiful little fish perfect for a nano tank.  Remember they really like soft water. When i movedthem to pure rainwater i could scoop up fry - minute little things -  on a daily basis. Good luck with them this time Gill.


----------



## Gill

*Re: giant tank for killis - JAWS*

That is good that they are adult size, the females sure are plump little things. 

Yeah kept Clowns before, so when i saw them on the supplier lists. I ordered some, I think that they will compliment the other surface dwellers very well with the contrast in color. I live in a Hard water area, but as i keep hundreds of snails in my tanks it helps to soften the water alot. And I use Alot of IAL and Alder Cones etc.


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - KILLI AUCTION THIS SUNDAY*



> *by killi69 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:38 pm*
> 
> For those who might be interested in killis - the British Killifish Association will be holding its next bi-annual southern auction on Sunday 9th September.
> 
> The auction will be held at West Molesey Scout Hut, St Peter's Rd, West Molesey, Surrey KT8 2QE.
> 
> This is a great opportunity to pick up some stunning fish at a fraction of LFS prices. Most of the fish on offer would not be available in LFSs anyway. Many are rare and bred pure to the locations from which they were collected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those who have not been to a fish auction like this before, the format is as follows; Before the auction starts, buyers have a chance to take a good look at all the fish displayed on the auction table. This is also an opportunity to find out more about the fish you fancy by asking others or speaking to the breeder of the fish you like. People are very friendly and keen to offer advice to beginners.
> 
> The auction starts at 1pm. Entrance fee is £2 and you do not have to be a member of the BKA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *by easerthegeezer » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:48 pm*
> 
> ooh im well up for that just to look about, thanks for the post!
> Iain
> Failing my way to success.




Iain, are you still planning to go, or anyone else??  It would be good to meet some UKAPS members at this event.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

*Re: giant tank for killis - KILLI AUCTION THIS SUNDAY*

really wanted to and was planning too, unfortunately now committed to family stuff... would rather be buying fish    
would be good to meet other members though but will have to wait until aquatics live.

Would be great if you take some pics for the forum though as wanted to go to a aquatics auction for a long time.


----------



## killi69

*Re: giant tank for killis - KILLI AUCTION THIS SUNDAY*

Shame you can't make it Iain.  Hopefully some other UKAPS people might be able to.  I will take some pics and post them here next week.

If you are interested in fish auctions, another interesting auction coming up is that of the British Cichlid Association, taking place on Sunday 16th September in Redditch (near Birmingham). Most of the fish up for auction will off course be cichlids but sellers are allowed to include 25% of non-cichlids in their lots.  I have copied some info below taken from the Tropical Fishforum. The link also contains an impressive list of some of the fish that will be auctioned - http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/405179-british-cichlid-association-convention-16th-sept/;

The British cichlid association auction list is now available to view. A superb range of cichlids from specialist UK breeders. Come and join us on the 16th for a superb day out. Everyone is welcome to attend and full details can be found here.. 

http://www.britishcichlid.org.uk 

or here..

http://www.facebook....12406608791025/


----------



## Iain Sutherland

*Re: giant tank for killis - KILLI AUCTION THIS SUNDAY*

thanks for the info,  not too far either... apistogramma will be worth the trip alone.  Now to be sure im off work.


----------



## killi69

FINALLY my tank is looking inhabited after my lampeyes arrived and I went to the killifish auction last week     . 

The lampeyes came in a bag containing 100 fish.  




in bucket for drip acclimatisation;








I kept 60 lampeyes and the rest were sold at the killi auction. The fish there were auctioned in two sittings. Picture of the lots in one of them;




examples of fish on offer;








The auction. Most fish went for £5-6 a pair.




my bounty;




The females of Aphyosemion and Fundulopanchax species are plain and look very similar, which is the reason most killi keepers prefer to keep each species separate in different tanks.  I am keeping a community tank of different killis from Cameroon/Nigeria region.  To be able to tell the females of different species apart, I have taken pics of them beforehand and noted the slight variations - just in case I want to have a go at breeding them in the future.









Fundulopanchax sjoestedti - dwarf variety which grows to only 10cm (instead of 14cm). I bought two pairs. 



Definitely my favourite in terms of colouring.  Due to its future size, it is also likely to be the top dog in the tank.  Males are known to be aggressive towards each other but there should be plenty of room for both pairs in my tank.




Fundulopanchax spoorenbergi - one pair




Fundulopanchax gardeneri 'Makurdi' - bought three pairs, now have seven pairs in total




Chromaphyosemion splendopleure 'Big Tiko Ikanga Camp' variety - bought one more pair, now have four pairs in total




Chromaphyosemion bivittatum 'Funge C1 98' - two pairs




Fish seem happy and are getting it on! Look away children .










Happy days.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

This is an awesome tank mate.  The fish are stunning.Would love to see a movie of this


----------



## somethingfishy

+1 to that


----------



## Mark Webb

+ 2


----------



## killi69

Thanks guys, will look into how to upload a video.

Just cleaned the filter and found twelve baby fish in the Eheim Pro3.  Hard to believe they can survive in that environment! Filter changes are now going to take 3x as long trying to look for fry in the bath tub .


----------



## killi69

Here is a short video clip I made on my phone this evening - apologies for shaky footage;


The needle grass is growing slowly, sending out runners in some places but is thinning out in others.  I have over the last few weeks seriously cut back the Aponogeton crispus red in an attempt to increase the flow.  These plants have been growing like mad, with leaves of 1 meter long!

_two weeks ago;_





_last week;_




I have also started removing the flower stalks which the plants are now sending out regularly.  I have been told the plants die back after flowering.  I know that is true for some Aponogeton species, not sure whether it applies to the A. crispus, but I thought I better err on the side of caution.  

So despite these trimmings, I don't think enough CO2 is reaching ground level (60cm deep), let alone travelling backwards along the 'alley' in between both islands where the grass is thinning.  I have been increasing CO2 levels but yesterday the lampeyes in particular were in distress, so increased flow now seems my only option.  It is also useful for me to know that the lampeyes appear to be most sensitive to too much CO2 - good indicators for future reference.

I am thinking about changing one of my filters, swapping the Eheim Pro2 for a Fluval FX5.  Not only will a more powerful pump help with CO2 delivery, with increased flow I will also be able to afford to place pre-filters over the inlets inside the tank to prevent fry from being sucked up.  At the moment, I think installing pre-filters would decrease my flow too much.

I would still want to keep the 16/22 tubing system and diy spraybars (one mounted horizontally at the top of the tank pointing downwards distributing the CO2, plus another mounted at the top of the back panel pointing forwards).  I would then be running an Eheim Pro 3 on one of the spray bars and the FX5 on the other.  I have been looking into ways of connecting the larger diameter FX5 outlets to 16/22 tubing, does anyone have any experience or tips in doing this  ?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

have you considered another eheim instead of the fx5, larger diameter tubing does have its own issues and ive always found its best keeping it simple.  Would a 2076 or 2078 not do the job?
If you get the stainless filter guards, i found they dont reduce flow at all, especially if the inlet tube is open ended..
thanks for the vid, the killis look awesome!!


----------



## ceg4048

Hello,
         Restricting the FX5 output to a 16mm ID tube will reduce the flow of the FX5 by almost 50% and will therefore be self defeating. If you want to use 16mm tubing then you might as well use the filter whose output specifications are for 16mm tubing. 

in the thread http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23268 James3200 mentions that he uses an Eheim 2260 with an externally mounted pump upgrade to boost the throughtput rating, so you might consider that option.

Cheers,


----------



## killi69

Thank you very much Iain and Ceg for your advice.

I think this is what you are referring to Iain;



Would its width of 17mm be ok for my 16/22 pipes?

So the FX5 is out. I also really need to remember to take the size of my cabinet into account. The 2180 I bought recently did not fit either and now stands next to the tank . My second filter must be able to fit into the cabinet.  The cabinet door opening is 48cm high.  Inside cupboard space is 55cm.  If really necessary, this could be extended to 64cm if I cut a hole in the base of the cabinet...

The current rated output of my second filter is 1140 l/hr, so to improve on this, the main options of Eheims I am now considering;

1. Eheim 2074 - 1500 l/hr - 40cm tall; would comfortably fit into cupboard, but would the increased flow of an extra (rated) 360 l/hr be sufficient?
2. Eheim 2076 - 1650 l/hr - 47cm tall; would fit in with a squeeze BUT would 8cm above filter taps give me enough space to clip off the tube inlet unit for filter maintenance ??
3. Adding an external pump to the circuit of the Pro2 (as described in the thread Ceg referred to).  Could I add an Eheim 3000 to the input or output of the Pro2?  

Thanks for your help and feedback


----------



## killi69

New addition to tank; Microctenopoma ansorgii, an Anabantoid fish from Congo/Zaire/Cameroon. Have been looking for these for a while and only managed to find two, so still looking for a few more.







I think they will compliment my killis nicely.  They are a really unusual and interesting fish - if you can see them. They are quite shy and only come out when lights are dimmed. But it is a real treat when you can see them popping out from the plant cover. I can't wait for them to colour up - check out what they will look like;








Another addition I have been quite excited about;LED colour light strips.  They come with remote control giving me a wide choice of colours as well as the ability to control the brightness.












normal lighting




led night light ('yellow')




I was so impressed, I bought a second set  to create more concentrated lighting above the focal point of the tank;




I would REALLY recommend this lighting.  Before, I would regularly 'over-ride' the timer switch on my main lighting unit and switch lights on in the mornings when feeding fish or keep them on late at night. Now I have the LED lights come on in the mornings and late evenings and I can watch the tank for as long as I like without any negative impact on the plants (lights are too dim for plant growth).

The LED lights can create totally different and natural looking atmospheres, some enhancing the colours of plants and fish, others making them look different, creating a cold or eerie feeling - especially when dimmed down low.

Shy fish seem to gain confidence with the dim lighting.  Both M. ansorgii fish mentioned above come out within minutes of this lighting going on.

So many different atmospheres possible, especially with the dimmer option and second set. It is quite difficult to capture the dim lit atmosphere with my phone camera - I used night mode function and the pictures look brighter than real life. 

One colour;












Combinations;


----------



## Ady34

Hi Andre,
Tank is looking great, new fish are very nice, and the new led lighting effect is a great addition to help prolong the viewing period.
A FTS from afar would be nice now to get a good sense if scale and presence in the room  
Really like this tank, one of my favourites and a great journal to read.
Cheerio
Ady


----------



## foxfish

Beautiful fish & those lights look like fun   
Your tank looks superb....


----------



## prdad

A lovely Sunday morning read and a real eye for detail. I bet you get lost in that tank for hours!


----------



## Gary Nelson

The lights look cool - where did you get them from and how much?


----------



## BigTom

Very nice Microctenopoma, they're another group that's been on my wishlist for a while. Tank is looking great as well - anything breeding yet?


----------



## killi69

> *by Ady34 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:06 am*
> 
> Hi Andre,
> Tank is looking great, new fish are very nice, and the new led lighting effect is a great addition to help prolong the viewing period.
> A FTS from afar would be nice now to get a good sense if scale and presence in the room
> Really like this tank, one of my favourites and a great journal to read.
> Cheerio
> Ady


Hi Ady, glad you like it.  I will post a FTS later on, need to tidy up room first . 



> *by foxfish » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:00 am*
> 
> Beautiful fish & those lights look like fun
> Your tank looks superb....


Thank you foxfish.  Cant imagine not having the lights now. It has taken my tank experience to another level. Being able to create a different mood without having to change the layout... Much better than the standard blue 'moonlight' strips you see more usually.  This system does allow for this blue colour as well but I find it looks too unnatural.  A very dim yellow /green/ white looks far more like a natural moonlight effect.  Quite mesmerising with all the other lights in the room switched off.



> *by prdad » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:17 am*
> 
> A lovely Sunday morning read and a real eye for detail.


Cheers prdad.  I enjoy having a record of the tank's development and looking back to see how it has come along.  I learn so much from reading other posts on this forum, I hope others might find some of the information here useful in the future.



> I bet you get lost in that tank for hours!


Ahem... how did you guess??  My girlfriend says the tank is a chick magnet . Can't say I have put this theory to the test but I doubt my ex wife would subscribe to this .



> *by Gary Nelson » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:18 am*
> 
> The lights look cool - where did you get them from and how much?


I bought them from Maplin, two sets costing £75 each.  Each set consists of a standard kit and extension kit, with a total of 6 x 50cm strips per set.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/flexible-rgb-strip-lighting-kit-592878

After I bought the first set, I saw an almost identical one (6 x 50cm strips, plus remote) for £40 on Amazon;  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00407EXF2/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I bought this set and found that it is almost identical to the Maplin kit;




However, the remote controls of both sets interfered with each other (eg green button on one made yellow light on other come on etc).  Although the yellow lights on the Maplin sets are better IMO (more yellow), the lights and functions of both types are otherwise identical and buying them from Amazon would be quite a bit cheaper.  

Because I wanted to be able to use two sets with one remote, I returned the Amazon set and bought another Maplin set.  I have placed the infra-red remote control receiver at either side of the tank so that I can still adjust each set independently.

There is another thread on the forum of something similar sold by IKEA;http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22370&p=229453&hilit=ikea+dioder#p229453  These sets are cheaper still.  From what I remember these strips are only 25cm long though and I am not sure whether they have the dimmer function - which would be a real shame to do without.;


----------



## killi69

> *by BigTom » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:50 pm*
> 
> Very nice Microctenopoma, they're another group that's been on my wishlist for a while. Tank is looking great as well - anything breeding yet?



Thanks Tom, the Microctenopoma are really hard to find.  I have requested four LFS's to look out for them for me, so hopefully some more will come through soon.  There's plenty of mating going on in the tank and I occasionally come across eggs laid on plants etc.




Already a small group of juvenile Chromaphyosemions has appeared by themselves.  Not actively breeding anything at the moment, apart from rescuing small fry caught up in the filter.  Quite an efficient breeding method in a way .  Have about 20 or so fry coming on now.   I feed them crushed flake and hatch baby brine shrimp, which the adults killis also love gorging themselves on.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Hey, hows this coming along mate?


----------



## sanj

I am going through a phase of being quite bored of aquascapes, not that I dont find them nice, just that I (and largely "we") have seen it all before. Still I do like seeing stuff like this. This a jungle tank created for particular types of fish; Killies. Not many keep them this way even if they keep them at all. This is interesting stuff. Thank you. Please keep taking photos. I love the anabantoids too.


----------



## killi69

> *Whitey89 wrote*
> Hey, hows this coming along mate?


Hi Nathaniel. Time for a quick update before heading off for our Xmas dinner.

Plants growing ok. Slow overall but then most of the plants are ferns. I had to move some of the Aponogetons away from the centre as they were growing too much into the gap in between the two islands. Here is picture taken just before I moved them;




Here are some current pics of tank;















> *Ady wrote*
> A FTS from afar would be nice now to get a good sense if scale and presence in the room
> Really like this tank, one of my favourites and a great journal to read.
> Cheerio
> Ady


Here you go Ady




I am having some trouble with hair algae growing in the higher regions of the tank especially;




I have reduced the lighting period to six hours a day.  Tried increasing CO2 further but unfortunately that led to some casualties among my lampeyes, so I am running at maximum levels possible.  Also the hair grass carpet is still very thin.  I bought a new filter, replacing the Eheim Pro2 with its 1140 l/hr rated output with an Eheim 2076, rated at 1650 l/hr.  This is running alongside the more powerful 2180.  I notice the plants at the bottom swaying more in the flow now, so i hope I am going to see an improvement in the carpet soon.

I have started double dosing EI ferts as the plant mass is very high.  Not sure if it was needed or not?

I noticed an interesting plant(?) growing in between some ferns and wood at the back of the tank, about one third from the surface.  At first it looked like a clump of algea but I think its actually a plant. I moved a little towards the front to take a picture.  







It does not seem invasive. Does anyone know what it is??




> *Sanj wrote*
> 
> I am going through a phase of being quite bored of aquascapes, not that I dont find them nice, just that I (and largely "we") have seen it all before. Still I do like seeing stuff like this. This a jungle tank created for particular types of fish; Killies. Not many keep them this way even if they keep them at all. This is interesting stuff. Thank you. Please keep taking photos. I love the anabantoids too.


Thanks Sanj, I will post some more pics over next few days.  

Thanks for reading,
Andre


----------



## ceg4048

killi69 said:


> I am having some trouble with hair algae growing in the higher regions of the tank especially;
> 
> 
> 
> I have started double dosing EI ferts as the plant mass is very high. Not sure if it was needed or not?


Theoretically, this is not really a good idea. You should always know if you need to add more nutrients. It's not a good idea to either add more or to add less without knowing why. The "Why" of adding more nutrients can only be related to a nutrient deficiency. If you are not observing nutrient deficiencies then you should not add more nutrients for the following reason:


Having a CO2 related issue happens to be one of those case where you should avoid adding more nutrients willy-nilly. The theoretical reason is that adding more Nitrogen to the system increases the plants demand for carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are required in order to use the Nitrogen. Therefore, Nitrogen uptake is "coupled" to CO2 uptake, i.e. adding more N causes an increased demand for C, and adding more C causes an extra demand for N.

Since you are already exhibiting a carbohydrate shortfall it would not be wise to increase the demand for carbohydrates. If you were suffering a Nitrogen shortfall at the same time that you were experiencing a carbon shortfall, then that would be OK, because you'd need to solve the N issue in any case. But since you have not reported suffering an N deficiency, in this case, adding more N will expose the plants' Carbon deficiency even more.

If adding more gas is no longer an option, then you need to choose a different path. Liquid carbon supplementation would be good short term (due to cost), but lowering the CO2 demand by reducing light is an option. You might also wish to consider chopping back the ferns severely in order to allow better flow to the carpet plants. The same thing that's causing the hair algae is what's causing slow growth of the carpet - lack of CO2. Adding more flow to overcome the fern blockade, of course, is another option. Any combination of these will work.

Cheers,


----------



## WetElbow

Love your tank.  Looks lush and healthy.  A great journal to date.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Looking lovely andre, great to see an insitu shot... easy to forget how big this tank is!  There is a lot of plant mass in there!!  i'd think a good trim would help resolve the algae issues, its painful to do with ferns and slower growing plants like the aponogeton but i find it necessary to maintain healthy, algae free growth and it will grow back surprisingly quickly.
Be sure to let us know what you do and if it helps.
laters
Iain


----------



## killi69

WetElbow said:


> Love your tank. Looks lush and healthy. A great journal to date.


Thank you WetElbow.



> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Theoretically, this is not really a good idea. You should always know if you need to add more nutrients. It's not a good idea to either add more or to add less without knowing why. The "Why" of adding more nutrients can only be related to a nutrient deficiency. If you are not observing nutrient deficiencies then you should not add more nutrients for the following reason: Having a CO2 related issue happens to be one of those case where you should avoid adding more nutrients willy-nilly. The theoretical reason is that adding more Nitrogen to the system increases the plants demand for carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are required in order to use the Nitrogen. Therefore, Nitrogen uptake is "coupled" to CO2 uptake, i.e. adding more N causes an increased demand for C, and adding more C causes an extra demand for N. Since you are already exhibiting a carbohydrate shortfall it would not be wise to increase the demand for carbohydrates. If you were suffering a Nitrogen shortfall at the same time that you were experiencing a carbon shortfall, then that would be OK, because you'd need to solve the N issue in any case. But since you have not reported suffering an N deficiency, in this case, adding more N will expose the plants' Carbon deficiency even more. If adding more gas is no longer an option, then you need to choose a different path. Liquid carbon supplementation would be good short term (due to cost), but lowering the CO2 demand by reducing light is an option. You might also wish to consider chopping back the ferns severely in order to allow better flow to the carpet plants. The same thing that's causing the hair algae is what's causing slow growth of the carpet - lack of CO2. Adding more flow to overcome the fern blockade, of course, is another option. Any combination of these will work. Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking lovely andre, great to see an insitu shot... easy to forget how big this tank is! There is a lot of plant mass in there!! i'd think a good trim would help resolve the algae issues, its painful to do with ferns and slower growing plants like the aponogeton but i find it necessary to maintain healthy, algae free growth and it will grow back surprisingly quickly. Be sure to let us know what you do and if it helps. laters Iain Iain
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thank you Ceg and Iain for your feedback, much appreciated .

Very useful to learn that _'adding more N causes increased demand for C'_. I will reduce my fert regime back to normal. I already had reduced lighting and increased flow with a new filter, so will wait to see if this makes any difference. I do regularly cut back plants, mainly the Aponogetons at the back, see pic for example of fortnightly thinning of leaves;




If no real progress is made through above measures, I will probably sell my new 2076 and try something more powerful to improve flow and CO2 distribution before having to resort to severely reducing the mass of ferns.


----------



## killi69

sanj said:


> I am going through a phase of being quite bored of aquascapes, not that I dont find them nice, just that I (and largely "we") have seen it all before. Still I do like seeing stuff like this. This a jungle tank created for particular types of fish; Killies. Not many keep them this way even if they keep them at all. This is interesting stuff. Thank you. Please keep taking photos. I love the anabantoids too.


Thank you Sanj. I would like to write something about the issues involved in keeping this choice of fish in a large planted tank.

As I mentioned at the beginning of my journal, killi fish are normally kept in really small little tanks, often bare set ups containing just with a mop for breeding, with no lighting and perhaps a small air sponge filter;



_Typical example of killi set-up (source; mykillifishdiaries.blogspot.com) _

Reasons why killis are usually kept separately in such small tanks;

killi fish in general come from shallow and still or slow moving waters with many species living in waters that may dry out completely in the summer - they will exist and reproduce quite happily in small dark tanks.
killi keepers are usually breeders who collect and maintain a number different species, often from specific locations, which they like to keep pure. It can often be hard to tell females apart and it is not uncommon for two species to produce infertile hybrid offspring if allowed to mix.
small tanks make for easier maintenance (eg feeding of live foods, cleaning, water changes with rain/RO water) and can facilitate breeding by keeping male and female close together (with mop or peat for egg collection).
there can be quite a bit of rivalry and aggression between males of same species and/or between different species. Sparring between males is common – males showing off each other can be spectacular to watch. Killifish can be quite boisterous and rivalry between different species can lead to shyer fish wasting away in a tank that is too busy.



_These two individual males of Fundulopanchax spoorenberghi (front) and F. sjoestedti (back) spend most of the day in my tank fighting over position underneath this particular overhang of plants. The spoorenburghi male is usually the aggressor but also the one to admit defeat with a few scratches, but always returns for more punishment lol._

A big tank like mine with its relatively powerful flow, hard tap water, bright light, mix of different killi species from same genus/groups does differ from the norm and is a bit of an experiment, for me anyway. However, such a tank can still provide for a community of killi species;

the dense planting and large size of tank provide plenty of opportunities for fish to retreat and come out when comfortable.
while some killis do require specific water parameters (eg soft /acidic water) to for breeding and egg hatching, many can be kept in the hard London tapwater for general maintenance purposes.
careful choice of fish can allow for females of different species to be recognised by small characteristics such as pattern differentiation on their bodies or fins, and therefore be kept together. If I wanted to breed any particular fish, I could catch a pair and place in breading tank with specific water requirements for breeding. There is a risk however, that hybrid off spring emerge naturally within the community tank, which could interfere with future breeding programmes.
while too much flow might be an issue for some species, I think that the volume of water moving through so called ‘slow moving’ waters in the wild would still represent a far greater flow than that in any of our tanks and that therefore many fish from these waters should be fine in tanks with powerful filtration.
Nevertheless, flow, light, hard water and community nature of my tank would probably exclude the more sensitive species of killis. My tank focuses on fish from the Cameroon region and I have chosen some of the hardier species from two groups of killifish for my experiment - the Fundulopanchax and Chromaphysemion groups. I have chosen them on the basis that although the Fundulopanchax species can be quite assertive/aggressive, they should have no problem in standing up to each other. On the whole, most of the rivalry is between males from the same species and there is relatively little conflict between fish from different genus.

Through the Midland Charity Auction earlier in December, I was able to buy some more Fundulopanchax spoorenberghi and Chromaphysemion bivittatum 'Funge C1 98'.




So far I have;
_Fundulopanchax spoorenberghi (top left) – 3 pairs_
_Chromaphyosemion bivittatum 'Funge C1 98' (bottom right) - three pairs_




_Fundulopanchax gardneri ‘makurdi’ – 6 pairs_




_Chromaphyosemion splendopleure 'Tiko Big Ikanga Camp'- at least four adult pairs, with plenty of juveniles born in tank approaching adulthood_




_Fundulopanchax sjoestedti ‘dwarf variety’ – 2 pairs_

_

_
_Microctenopoma ansorgii (male at front, female behind, I think)_

I really like the M. ansorgiis and have been able to source five more more through a LFS, making seven in total now.




According to many texts, they are not suitable for a community tank, especially not those with boisterous fish, and should only be mixed with smaller and peaceful dither fish as they are quite shy and slow moving and can easily be outmaneuvered at feeding time.



So, keeping the ansorgiis with Fundulopanchax killis could be a challenge as these killis are hardly gentle nor peaceful. In the beginning, the ansorgiis were indeed very shy and I hardly saw them. When food was added to the tank, the killis would finish the food in seconds. By contrast, an ansorgii would take a second or two just to spot the food, slowly glide towards it and most often, the food item was snatched away by another fish well before the ansorgii got a chance.



The interesting thing about the ansorgiis is that although they are a bit shy and slow moving (they 'glide' through the water), they are predator fish and are somehow able to command some respect from the killis and warn them off by displaying their fins if a killi approaches them with menace.



I have read that in the wild, they live in areas with very dense vegetation and are active mainly at dusk and dawn. The dimmer LED lights in my tank really help put them at ease. They are often hiding when the main lights are on but are usually up and about in the morning and evening in the LED lit tank. I have created a few overhangs in the tank, with branches covered with ferns above and planted with anubias nana underneath. These are the places the ansorgiis find most comfortable.



I have established a feeding method (mornings and evenings) where I create a feeding frenzy in the middle of the tank for all the killis and while I maintain the frenzy, I use a turkey baster to squirt live or frozen food underneath/ in between the vegetation of the overhang to make sure the ansorgiis get their fair share.



They are fantastic fish to watch and I love it when they come venturing out of the vegetation, like lions coming out of the bush. They can change their coloration in seconds, from pale brown to very dark brown, almost black, to vertical bands of bright orange. Males spar with each other in a similar way to the killis, displaying their stretched fins, showing off white edges around their fins, which stand out vividly.




Sorry if I have been ranting on a bit, but I wanted to share something about my fish as well. Hope you find it of interest.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Really nice fish you have and great photos too - Nice to see all the lamp eyes in the background


----------



## Ian Holdich

Wow!
this is amazing, and that shot of the tank in the room gives it the wow factor! Really well done mate!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

You can rant like that all you want andre, the tank is lovely and the killi's really are something with the M. ansorgiis adding some beautiful variation. A inspiring journal also (makes me realise my fish knowledge is pathetic!), its great to see beautiful planted tanks that arent just relatively short lived display/comp tanks, safe to say you and Sanj have a niche of your own (just for now i hope ) and the forum is all the luckier for it.
This would make another great PFK feature tank... 
I WILL make the trip down to see this in the flesh one day!!


----------



## Little-AL

Loved reading and catching up on this thread - your detailed posts are a treat to read tbh fella!

I've been planning to set up a smallish tank for a single male fighter recently but I think you have inspired me to research a suitable pair of Killis now!


----------



## Lindy

I love this tank, especially the choice of fish. I've just got some lampeyes and love them. If I get a bigger tank I'll get some more killie fish as our tap water is perfect for them. I could replay your video again and again....


----------



## killi69

Gary Nelson said:


> Really nice fish you have and great photos too - Nice to see all the lamp eyes in the background


Thanks Gary. As I mentioned I have had casualties with the lampeyes with a number of CO2 accidents I have had over the last few months. They seem very sensitive to high levels of CO2. A couple of times I lost a few when I had turned up the gas too high and more recently when I cleaned the atomiser and did not think that a cleaner device would deliver more CO2. These accidents were made worse by the fact that some lampeyes, which are normally too fast for the Fundulopanchax, did fall victim to their aggression when intoxicated by the CO2.



Ian Holdich said:


> Wow! this is amazing, and that shot of the tank in the room gives it the wow factor! Really well done mate!


Cheers Ian for the feedback



easerthegeezer said:


> You can rant like that all you want andre, the tank is lovely and the killi's really are something with the M. ansorgiis adding some beautiful variation. A inspiring journal also (makes me realise my fish knowledge is pathetic!), its great to see beautiful planted tanks that arent just relatively short lived display/comp tanks, safe to say you and Sanj have a niche of your own (just for now i hope ) and the forum is all the luckier for it. This would make another great PFK feature tank... I WILL make the trip down to see this in the flesh one day!!


Iain, thanks so much for this feedback, am really encouraged by it! Well, as I said to you before, you are always welcome and it would be really cool to get some live feedback from a ukaps member.



Little-AL said:


> Loved reading and catching up on this thread - your detailed posts are a treat to read tbh fella! I've been planning to set up a smallish tank for a single male fighter recently but I think you have inspired me to research a suitable pair of Killis now!


Brilliant! One of the reasons of me deciding to keep this journal was to encourage people to consider keeping killis. Killis are really suited to small tanks, are beautiful and unusual and IMO display much more interesting behavior than many others. I am no expert but am willing to give feedback if you have any species in mind, just PM me or leave post on this thread. Also, the British Killifish Association auctions are very good sources of fish and access to breeders who are very happy to share tips and knowledge. Tim Addis's website is also quite useful; killifish from west africa.
​


----------



## killi69

ldcgroomer said:


> I love this tank, especially the choice of fish. I've just got some lampeyes and love them. If I get a bigger tank I'll get some more killie fish as our tap water is perfect for them. I could replay your video again and again....


Cheers idc! Do share your experiences and pictures when you get more. I must try and post another video soon. I normally struggle to find time to keep up with tank maintenance and live foods for my breeding projects etc, let alone keeping the journal up to date. Xmas holidays are a blessing lol.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

killi69 said:


> it would be really cool to get some live feedback from a ukaps member.
> ​


 
you might regret saying that!!  lot of members in london... lol
And im not sure  with a little dribble on my chin counts as feedback.

Happy new year!


----------



## killi69

easerthegeezer said:


> You might regret saying that!! Lot of members in london... lol. And im not sure with a little dribble on my chin counts as feedback. Happy new year!


Hehe! Well I would be more than happy for ukaps people to come by and pick their brains. I do not really know any aquatic plant enthusiasts so it would be great to get feedback and advice in person... so let me know when you are around the area Iain!


----------



## Ady34

Awesome write up and very informative. 
This journal is a belter


----------



## alanyusupov

killi69 said:


> Hi Nathaniel. Time for a quick update before heading off for our Xmas dinner.
> 
> Plants growing ok. Slow overall but then most of the plants are ferns. I had to move some of the Aponogetons away from the centre as they were growing too much into the gap in between the two islands. Here is picture taken just before I moved them;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some current pics of tank;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go Ady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am having some trouble with hair algae growing in the higher regions of the tank especially;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have reduced the lighting period to six hours a day. Tried increasing CO2 further but unfortunately that led to some casualties among my lampeyes, so I am running at maximum levels possible. Also the hair grass carpet is still very thin. I bought a new filter, replacing the Eheim Pro2 with its 1140 l/hr rated output with an Eheim 2076, rated at 1650 l/hr. This is running alongside the more powerful 2180. I notice the plants at the bottom swaying more in the flow now, so i hope I am going to see an improvement in the carpet soon.
> 
> I have started double dosing EI ferts as the plant mass is very high. Not sure if it was needed or not?
> 
> I noticed an interesting plant(?) growing in between some ferns and wood at the back of the tank, about one third from the surface. At first it looked like a clump of algea but I think its actually a plant. I moved a little towards the front to take a picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not seem invasive. Does anyone know what it is??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Sanj, I will post some more pics over next few days.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> Andre


 


killi69 said:


> Hi Nathaniel. Time for a quick update before heading off for our Xmas dinner.
> 
> Plants growing ok. Slow overall but then most of the plants are ferns. I had to move some of the Aponogetons away from the centre as they were growing too much into the gap in between the two islands. Here is picture taken just before I moved them;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some current pics of tank;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go Ady
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am having some trouble with hair algae growing in the higher regions of the tank especially;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have reduced the lighting period to six hours a day. Tried increasing CO2 further but unfortunately that led to some casualties among my lampeyes, so I am running at maximum levels possible. Also the hair grass carpet is still very thin. I bought a new filter, replacing the Eheim Pro2 with its 1140 l/hr rated output with an Eheim 2076, rated at 1650 l/hr. This is running alongside the more powerful 2180. I notice the plants at the bottom swaying more in the flow now, so i hope I am going to see an improvement in the carpet soon.
> 
> I have started double dosing EI ferts as the plant mass is very high. Not sure if it was needed or not?
> 
> I noticed an interesting plant(?) growing in between some ferns and wood at the back of the tank, about one third from the surface. At first it looked like a clump of algea but I think its actually a plant. I moved a little towards the front to take a picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not seem invasive. Does anyone know what it is??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Sanj, I will post some more pics over next few days.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> Andre


Hi Andre
Plants looks like this


----------



## killi69

Ady34 said:


> Awesome write up and very informative. This journal is a belter


Thanks Ady!


----------



## killi69

alanyusupov said:


> Hi Andre Plants looks like this


 
Wow, you have got this as well. Does this mean I now have a 'super rare plant' in my tank? 25 quid anyone??
I have posted a thread in the 'Plants' section to see if anyone can help identify what this is. Happy New Year Alan, hope you are well.


----------



## Lindy

Hi, was just wondering how much water flow lampeyes like as mine seem no different with the filter on max as they do with it 1/2 power?It is pretty strong and has a full length spray bar. Obviously I'd rather have it on full(ish) but not sure what they prefer. They aren't going to the spot where I know there is reduced flow so don't seem to need to have a rest. I would be grateful for your knowledge!


----------



## killi69

Hi Lindy. As far as I know, they like some flow but not 'too much'. I too imagine that if your fish were unhappy, they would hang out in calmer parts of the tank. As long as they are not hiding from the flow or getting blown around the tank, they should be fine, I think.


----------



## Lindy

Thanks Killi69. Came down this morn to fish hiding or hanging around surface so dropped filter flow and did 7ltr W/C just to cover all bases. Temp had dropped to below 23 overnight so have raised heater temp too. They are shoaling again.


----------



## killi69

A while a ago, I wrote about how my fish suddenly turned on my Amano shrimp. Over a one week period, I noticed dead shrimp in my tank most days and could not understand why. Then, one Saturday morning, I witnessed two shrimp getting attacked at the same time and took this footage.

Shrimp lovers may not enjoy watching this but I am still posting the video as I find it interesting that the fish could co-exist with the Amanos for months and then suddenly - and collectively - turn on them and eradicate them within days.

Also notice how in the final seconds of the video, the Microctenopoma ansorgii in the centre of the screen changes his body colouration.


----------



## BigTom

I've seen a similar sort of thing in my tank with the _Sawbwa replendens_ and_ Caradina simoni simoni_.... they had no interest in the shrimp at all until I added some peacock gobies, which often have a go at catching shrimp. They're not very quick so the shrimp usually escape by backflipping across the tank, but this flight behaviour triggers something in the Sawbwa, which then hunt down and eat that individual shrimp.


----------



## killi69

Went back home for Xmas and came across a LFS with an entire wall dedicated to West African species;



Among their collection on sale I found Sicydium sp, a goby like fish from Cameroon.



This is a real rarity and of real interest to me as so far, standard algae eating fish, such as ottos and the like, had been out of reach because my tank is for Cameroon species only. This is the first time I have seen algae eaters from Cameroon in a LFS.

The owner also introduced me to an unknown (to him anyway) species of Microctenopoma, a single specimen that had arrived among a shipment of M. ansorgii from Cameroon.

So I bought six Sicydiums and the mystery Microctenopoma fish.







It took a while for the kills to get used to the Sicydiums but after they stopped getting chased around the tank, they got on with munching on two weeks’ worth of algae on the front window.













They are so CUTE!!! Shame they stay hidden most of the time. Just check out this little fella and see his expressions change (camera shy??);


The anonymous Microctenopoma coloured up nicely and despite its small size is not too shy among the lively killis.









15 sec video;


One more new arrival; a pair of Fundulopanchax fallax



Hard to capture the male in his full glory but he is a beautiful fish.













On the plant front, I have implemented advice obtained on this thread at the start of my holidays and have reduced lighting to 5.5 hours and ferts back to standard EI dosage. Am also doing water changes twice a week now to try and reduce the ‘hair algae’ I have in some places – visible in the second video above.

Current pic;




Gained some very interesting feedback about the mystery algae/plant which appeared in my tank (see post on previous page).



I posted a thread on the ‘plants’ section, as well as on a Dutch form, and the ‘plant’ has been identified as Caloglossa – a form of red algae that a couple of Dutch and Polish enthusiasts have put to good use in their showtanks. See pic I came across on a Polish site;


>


 
I moved a clump of the Caloglossa towards the front (the original clump sits on the other side of the fern, out of view towards the back) and wedged it underneath the bolbitis. 



I have noticed that since reducing the lighting and EI ferts regime, it is not looking too happy and its 'leaves' (do algae have leaves??) seem to be shrinking. I think I read on some of the Polish/Dutch forums that the people who grew it had quite a bit of light above their tanks, so tomorrow I will move it out from under the shade of the plants to see if this will make any difference.


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## Iain Sutherland

Those Gobies are awesome!  Are they eating the hair algae also? Youve got such a nice selection of fish now andre.


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## killi69

Hey Iain. I have not observed the gobies eating the hair algae. There seems to be a bit less of it now but that could be down to the reduction in light and ferts. I hope they can survive on the algae that is available to them. Those killis are real buggers, they can't leave anything alone and create a frenzy every time they think something can be eaten. I should feed the gobies something extra I think (should't I??) but they can't get in there with the killis. I tried feeding them wafers, which the killis first tried to eat, then gave up on, but as soon as they saw the gobies try to eat it they went mad for it again. The Fundulopanchax gardneri in particular are very boisterous, I am thinking about reducing their numbers a little (have about 5-6 pairs or so at the moment) in a bid to calm things down a bit.


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## tim

this is a lovely aquarium killi journal is a very good sunday morning read  keep the updates coming please


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## Mrmikey

Love you aquarium. I'd really like to try something like this after my tank runs it's course. Looks so Heathy and I love the fish you have.


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## killi69

tim said:


> tim Active Member Offline Message Count: 621 this is a lovely aquarium killi journal is a very good sunday morning read keep the updates coming please


Thanks for the feedback Tim 


Mrmikey said:


> Love you aquarium. I'd really like to try something like this after my tank runs it's course. Looks so Heathy and I love the fish you have.


Cheers Mrmikey, that's good to hear. Through this journal, I am really trying to encourage more people to have a go at keeping killis. They are not difficult to look after and IMO are a really interesting and colourful kind of fish. Ukaps people have beautiful tanks - still unfortunately quite a rarity in comparison to the average aquarium out there - and I think killis would make a great and unique addition to many of these.




Unfortunately in contrast to the aquascaping movement, the killikeeper community is ageing and unless the keeping of killifish becomes more mainstream in the hobby, many of the rare species currently available won't be around in years to come


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## Ady34

Hi,
Great photo....they are beautiful fish! 
Ive only ever kept golden panchax before and found them stunning, maybe when I fancy changing my nano tank ill look into killis more seriously, not too big, very pleasing on the eye and full of character.
You have an inspiring tank Andre.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## killi69

I need some advice re filtration please. I currently use an Eheim 2180 and 2076. The 2076 recently replaced an old Eheim Pro2 filter and flow has been improved a bit. With reduced lighting, reduced ferts regime (back to standard EI), increased water changes, and the increased flow, I hope the algae issues will become less and the the hairgrass carpet will finally start to thicken with a better distribution of CO2.

One issue that has been slowly getting worse - and has not really improved since the introduction of the 2076 - is the presence of small particles in the water column;

I suspect that this is probably connected to impaired flow/ circulation because of the density of the plants. I wanted to get some advice on this to see whether there is anything I can do to improve filtration without cutting back on the volume of the ferns. I really like having masses of ferns and first want to explore other solutions.

I clean the filters every other week. They are both filled with floss which I rinse out as much as possible in tank water.

Is the problem because the plants are blocking the flow and particles are not reaching the filters, in which case;
a) should I replace the 2076 with a more powerful filter to improve flow, or;
b) should I relocate one of the filter intakes from the left to the centre of the tank (dark blue arrow below) instead to suck up the water between the two islands ?Currently my filter intakes are located in both back corners (represented in light blue arrows below). There are three intakes - at the moment, two are on the left and one on the right. 



Or is my problem related to the media inside my filters; should I increase biological filtration and replace large sections of the floss with alfagrog or something? Will this reduce the amount of small particles in the water? I have always just only used floss thinking it will still provide some biological filtration and perhaps this lies at the heart of the issue.

Or maybe its a combination of all of the above??

Or is the only solution cutting back the ferns? Not an answer I want to hear!

Looking forward to hearing your views! Thanks, Andre


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## BigTom

Sounds to me like you need more mechanical filtration, rather than less. At the risk of pimping my own thread several times in one morning, you could try something like this - Cloudy water - a little trick | UK Aquatic Plant Society

Worked for me when I had issues with cloudy water, but at the cost of a certain amount of flow. I now just chop the socks up to use the material; I'm sure you could find equivalent solutions with a bit of ebay searching. Your particles look relatively large so you could try larger micron sizes to minimise flow reduction.


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## Alastair

I'd partly agree with Tom but also with you that if you have three intakes then pop on in the middle on the back wall. How are your outlets positioned, by spray bar or just using the shepherds crook outlet?? If using just the outlets you need more or less perfect circular flow around the whole tank in order to circulate the particles. Maybe try positioning one of the intakes at the front right or left corner if so. 
When I ran both a 2080 and 2078 tigether I had this problem on my big tank until I got the flow and positioning of the intakes just right. 
Spray bars along the back with the intakes on the back worked fine but when I decided to use without Spray bars, I had to place one outlet at the front right pointing left and slightly down  and the other rear left pointing right to get the flow correct 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## killi69

BigTom said:


> Sounds to me like you need more mechanical filtration, rather than less. At the risk of pimping my own thread several times in one morning, you could try something like this - Cloudy water - a little trick | UK Aquatic Plant Society Worked for me when I had issues with cloudy water, but at the cost of a certain amount of flow. I now just chop the socks up to use the material; I'm sure you could find equivalent solutions with a bit of ebay searching. Your particles look relatively large so you could try larger micron sizes to minimise flow reduction.


Thanks BigTom for your help, this is very useful. As I needed to increase flow to deal with algae issues and improve CO2 distribution, the sock trick would only be feasible if I was able to increase filtration power at the same time so as not to loose any flow. I have a spare Eheim Pro2 filter (rated at 1100 l/hr or so) so I could perhaps run that separately or in-line with one of the other filters as you suggested.

Useful to know that you don't think I need media for biological filtration in my filters (or not at the expense of floss at the moment any way) as I was worrying whether not having "biological media" was a bad thing.



Alastair said:


> I'd partly agree with Tom but also with you that if you have three intakes then pop on in the middle on the back wall. How are your outlets positioned, by spray bar or just using the shepherds crook outlet?? If using just the outlets you need more or less perfect circular flow around the whole tank in order to circulate the particles. Maybe try positioning one of the intakes at the front right or left corner if so. When I ran both a 2080 and 2078 tigether I had this problem on my big tank until I got the flow and positioning of the intakes just right. Spray bars along the back with the intakes on the back worked fine but when I decided to use without Spray bars, I had to place one outlet at the front right pointing left and slightly down and the other rear left pointing right to get the flow correct


Thanks so much Alastair. Good to know you think an intake in the middle is a good idea then. To give you a better understanding of the way the outlets are positioned, here is an old photo showing the positioning of the spraybars;



The spraybar at the back is powered by the Eheim 2180 and the one mounted above the front window is powered by the 2076 (and includes the CO2 output). I understand from Ceg that this was the best way to create the circulation direction I should aim for (over surface from back to front - down alongside front window - back over substrate towards back - and up again), although Ceg also recommended cuting back the plants as well, which like I said, I am trying to avoid. What do you think?


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## killi69

And also maybe reduce plants at either side of the tank to allow for circulation towards the filter intakes in the back corners?


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## Alastair

It would be a shame to have to cut back the plants to allow the flow through but at the same time the inlets clearly can't take in the bits floating around. Are you getting definite circular flow from top back, down the front and to the rear of the tank??? Do the bits follow this pattern or are they just floating about all over??  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## killi69

Hi Alastair. The flow is strong along the surface and front window and there I can detect some flow going over the plants in the substrate near the front and particles caught up in this flow obviously go along with it.  However, it seems that the circular flow pattern is more visible on the outer regions and that inside the central/main volume of water the flow is less directional.


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## Alastair

I can't see why the flow would be any less centrally, than on the outer sides of the tank. Try one of the intakes in the middle along the back wall and see if this helps like you thought, but looking at your tank you have more of an open space centrally so flow shouldn't be affected as much I'd have thought 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ady34

Hi Andre, any updates on this tank?
Did you manage to resolve the particle problem?
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## killi69

Hi Ady,

Thanks for your interest! Can't believe its been five months already since my last update.  I have been taking photos every now and then but never got round to uploading them.   Tank is pretty much the same although the fish have changed a bit - still all from Cameroon but I have replaced some of the killifish and added a few more anabantoids.

The particle problem remained for quite a while and has still not been fully resolved.  Following the above advice, I packed two of the three trays of both my Eheim 2080s with padding to increase mechanical filtration but this did not sort the problem.  About 6 weeks ago, I removed a load of cryptocoryne balansae from the back and this obviously improved the flow as the water cleared up a bit.  I therefore think it is a flow issue caused by the large and dense volume of ferns.  

I read on Dutch Nature style | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society that Yo-han uses an inline Wave Stream 2200 to increase flow on his Eheims and I was considering doing the same by placing a pump after the outlet of one of my Eheim 2080s. While I expect the increased flow will help filtration and improve the poor plant growth at substrate level,  I am a bit concerned about the impact on my fish as most of them prefer still or slow moving waters.  

Would it be possible to add a Wave Stream 2200 and somehow regulate the flow if the additional flow proves too much?  How would I do this??  Could I use the built in flow regulator on the Eheim 2280 to reduce flow if needed or would this be harmful to either the Eheim or the additional pump fitted onto the Eheim's outlet?

I will post pics with updates after next week.

Regards,

Andre


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## markj

great looking tank


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## ~firefly~

Great looking tank/project. I've enjoyed this thread as I know very little about killifish. Those gobies are fantastic - full of character!


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## Edvet

Just wanted to salute you on the tank and the idea behind it.I love to see kilis in regular tanks.


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## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi 
How are you ? 
This noon I went in the river shore to find rocks for my next scape. 
It's a spot where there is people that go in the river and take out the stones. And it is where also you can find a lot of killis. We call that place Kinsuka, I think that even one killie have this name ? 
The only problem is that I am not allowed to take pic on that place. In Congo you are not allowed to take pic at the border of the country and strategic building (airport, big bridge, military building). And just behind this hill there is the military HQ. 
So some soldiers come to bother me they wanted to take my phone, saying that I am a spy hahaha. After a small talk and 10€ they let me go lol. Aaaah the joys of that country. 

So here are a few shot for you.


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## Robbie X

Amazing journal and journey, thank you


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## killi69

Thanks Robbie and a very belated thank you to markj, firefly and Edvet, and off course to Zanguli for sharing those great pics of the river near Kinsuka.  Sorry for my long absence, it's been eight months, so I will be posting an update here very soon.


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## killi69

Since my last update, I have been steadily increasing the ‘root mass’ by adding smaller pieces of root branches to the base of both islands, as well as thinning out some of the ferns and providing lines of sight, through planted ‘streets’ of Anubias cutting through the ferns.

The aim is to try and create more interest overall, compared to ‘just’ having large masses of ferns which provided great shelter for the fish but on the whole blocked much of the depth of view.

Although on the one hand, the plant mass of ferns has been reduced, the placing of additional ‘root systems’ along the bottom, has provided additional shelter for the fish with further opportunities for under-planting.

Overall, I have been aiming to increase the number of layers in the tank;
-    Floating leaves of the Aponogeton crispus red and Cryptocoryne balansae
-    The mini java ferns attached to the top ends of the branches
-    The various ferns inside the branches
-    The streets of Anubias growing through the branches
-    The bottom root system under-planted with Anubias
-    Crypts planted directly around the base of the mounds

_Prepared 'streets' of Anubias to be placed inside the branches;_



_Overview since August 2013;_


_Caloglossa algae growing on branches above Anubias 'street';_

_More wood and under-planting;_



Added a load of Anubias nana bonsai.  I used cable ties to place Anubias around the roots at ground level, which is a lot easier than tying directly to the wood, especially at this depth, and  allows more flexibility for moving around later on.





_Close up showing various layers of planting and 'see through' view points;_


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## BigTom

Ace! I absolutely love this tank. I see that weird red algae is still doing well.


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## Ady34

Great to have an update Andre and the tank is still looking super. Nice to see it still evolving too.


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## killi69

Then, I moved house!  Moving the tank was off course by far the most complicated part of this and I organised the tank move two weeks before my own.

_Last picture before break down;_

_
Borrowed some butts from Aquatic Design Centre (a big thank you to Greg and ADC for this)_


For those who might remember reading about my experiences of buying the tank at the start of my journal (and discovering a small crack in the glass after moving), I decided to take no chances this time and brought in the professionals;


as well as some other keen helpers;


The move was also an opportunity for me to try and address some of the water quality issues I was having and discussed earlier in my journal (see #126).  Despite two powerful Eheim 2180s, filled with lots of filter floss, there were still lots of water particles which resulted in brown residue and some algae on the leaves of many of my plants;




Every week I was battling to clean the brown slime off the leaves and I was loosing more and more leaves.  You might notice from the pictures above how over time, the Aponogeton leaves reduced in mass, many with holes in them.

So I decided that in order to increase flow, I would forsake the very top layer of my tank - the floating leaves of the Aponogeton and Cryptocoryne balansae had to come out.  I balanced this out by creating another structure of branches that would reach the top of the tank, using cable ties to hold them all together;

I then tied mini java ferns to the top ends of these branches to provide additional layers at the top level and new places of refuge for my fish.

To further improve my water flow and filtration,  I made a number of changes to my filter set up, with the help and advice from Greg at the Aquatic Design Centre.  First of all, I bought two very fine and very large sponges (about 1 ft long).  In one, I DIY’d an inlet for both of the intake pipes of one of my Eheim 2180’s.

I use black piping and black pvc tubing underwater instead of the ugly see-through or green eheim stuff. Black works much better IMO when trying to hide tubing etc behind plants, especially against a black background like in my tank.The black pvc piping I sourced from Wickes Round Conduit - Conduit - Electrical -Tools, Electrical & Plumbing - Wickes. Its 20mm external diameter but fits fine. I also use it to make spraybars. The black pvc tubing (16/21mm) I sourced from BRAIDED HOSE AIR / WATER HOSE END OF LINE and use for connectors where possible or to lead piping in or out of the tank.

The other sponge, I connected to a Aqua Clear 70 Power filter and made a small spraybar for its outlet which I clipped against part of my original spraybar which runs along the length of the tank at the top at the back (and blocked the holes in the original spraybar running behind it, thus also increasing the flow through the remaining holes of the original bar).


Both sponges are placed in the back corners of the tank and, big as they are, they are almost completely hidden behind the wood and plants and are hardly noticeable. I clean the sponges once a week and they come out really filthy, so they are obviously doing a far better job at mechanical filtration than these fancy Eheim pumps of mine.  The water is a lot cleaner now, with hardly any dirt settling on the plant leaves.

The other Eheim 2180 is still running – without an external sponge fitted to it – and its inlets are situated at the back in between the two islands.


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## killi69

I continued to add more layers and bought a whole load of additional ‘roots’ to go at the base of both mounds;


Here some more recent pictures of the new set up;
























I will come back again soon with an update on the fish population.

Thank you for watching,

Andre


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## Edvet

The move improved your tank, so you did wel, grats.
My personal findings are rthat a big tank with loads of fish and plants will always a bit murky. I find in my own tank i am always battling dust in the water.


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## tim

This tank just gets better and better, great to see such a detailed up date hopefully won't be another 8 months for the next one


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## killi69

BigTom said:


> Ace! I absolutely love this tank. I see that weird red algae is still doing well.



Thanks Tom, I am glad you like it.

Yes the Caloglossa algae is still there but currently it is not as neat as I have shown it in one or two pics above. I have found that you need to tie it around a branch or something at first, and soon it will look something like this;


but, after a while, however, it becomes a bit wooly and fluffy and prone to picking up debris and needs tying down again;



I lost much of it in recent months when I introduced some Kribs to the tank and they enjoyed nibbling it.  I have since got rid of the Kribs and have the stuff growing again but I need to start the process of tying it around something - it also needs to be tied to a spot which is away from other plants or else it will start attaching itself to any leaf that touches it.  It can also spread, as bits break off and multiply in between plants in the gravel etc.   When I broke down the tank for the move there were quite a few areas in the gravel among the plants where they had moved to independently, but that never bothered me. I have never found it reached plague proportions but have read accounts on German websites of people who had to break down their tank because they could not stop it from getting out of hand... It all depends on your tank conditions I suppose but I am aware there is always that risk.


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## Olivier

Nice addition to the foreground! Those irregular shaped roots recalled the ferns. They add grounding to the front and achors those ferns in the substrate. Really nice tank btw 


Envoyé de mon iPhone à l'aide de Tapatalk


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## killi69

tim said:


> This tank just gets better and better, great to see such a detailed up date hopefully won't be another 8 months for the next one





Ady34 said:


> Great to have an update Andre and the tank is still looking super. Nice to see it still evolving too.


Thank you very much for the vote of confidence, Ady and Tim.  I often take a picture when i make changes to the tank but finding the time to upload them and update the blog is another matter.  I am sure I am not the only one struggling to keep up with tank maintenance, let alone have time to fiddle around with uploading updates.  But good to see it all on screen now its done.



Olivier said:


> Nice addition to the foreground! Those irregular shaped roots recalled the ferns. They add grounding to the front and achors those ferns in the substrate. Really nice tank btw


Cheers Olivier, it really amazes me how much wood I can keep adding, without it looking too overcrowded, although some might disagree.  The trick I think is also to not to have too many plants, so that plants are not hiding the wood too much. Not always easy to cut back on plants as I do like the overgrown look.

I forgot to mention that I also changed the lighting a bit, swapping one of two white T5s with a pink one. I know many on the forum don't like the pink bulbs but in combination with another colour I think they give off a nice warm hue and bring out the red colours in fish and plants in a nice way.


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## sanj

Lovely, I think I said it before, but this is one of my favourate tanks on here.

In the last few months I have also been having issues with brown coating on leaves and particulate matter in the water column. It got really bad when I was away for a couple of weeks. I am wondering whether those eheim prefilters might help?

Love the scaping and the fish.


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## killi69

sanj said:


> Lovely, I think I said it before, but this is one of my favourite tanks on here.
> In the last few months I have also been having issues with brown coating on leaves and particulate matter in the water column. It got really bad when I was away for a couple of weeks. I am wondering whether those eheim prefilters might help?
> Love the scaping and the fish.


Nice one sanj! Its really great to get such feedback from people with amazing tanks like yourself, BigTom and others whose tanks I really admire and find similarities with (lots of wood with plants).
I have come to the conclusion that these big Eheim 2080 type filters suck (or not) for mechanical filtration.  Even when I packed them with floss (including around the edges of the internal baskets to try and force all flow through the floss), they still did not come close to cleaning the water.


Edvet said:


> The move improved your tank, so you did wel, grats.
> My personal findings are rthat a big tank with loads of fish and plants will always a bit murky. I find in my own tank i am always battling dust in the water.



I think Edvet has a point about big tanks with lots of plants having some debris floating about.  Especially, I think, when you also have large mounds of wood in there as well. Lots of organic material (plants and wood) which together form huge obstacles preventing consistant overall circulation.  In my tank, there are some 'dead spots' behind the mounds where debris gathers, which catfish and other boisterous fish whip up from time to time.

I was able to improve the situation by both increasing flow and filtration by adding another powerhead and using two large and very fine sponge filters.  They are nothing like the standard Eheim pre-filters, the ones I use are far bigger (prob 40x10x10cm) and are gigantic and much finer in comparison to the very small and coarse sponges fitted inside the Eheim pre-filters.

_Eheim pre-filter;_


_Compare this to the sponge capacity of what I am using;_


As you can see from the photo above, mine have an internal home-made bar inside with holes drilled in along the length of the bar so that dirt is sucked into the sponge from the top to the bottom in both corners of the tank.  This in contrast to the regular external filter set-up where intakes are only situated in the bottom corner of the tank where circulation is often poor in tanks like ours due to the mass of wood and plants in front of the intakes.

So, in answer to your question, sanj, I would definitely recommend the big sponges to you, especially if you can find a way to hide them (which in your tank should not be a problem). The colour of the water I wash the sponges in weekly is evidence of how much dirt they collect - no comparison to the dirt collected in the Eheims.  A disgrace really considering the Eheims costs hundreds. As I wrote above, either fit the sponges to your filter intakes, and/or just rig one up to a power head and increase your flow at the same time, which will help both filtration and dirt from settling on your leaves.

Disadvantages;
- you need to be able to hide the sponges, so they would only really work for larger tanks
- they need weekly cleaning, which adds a bit of time to the maintenance regime
- depending on your layout, you risk wood etc being knocked around a bit every time you remove and replace the sponges (due to their large size). For me it still works, though I have to be careful and replace some bits and pieces every now and then


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## sanj

Thanks for the reply Kili,

It is a consideration, although I am quite liking the idea of a seperate powerhead, although it is another thing that adds to electricity cost, but at least it would not slow the main filters down.


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## Edvet

Kili did you make that hole in the foam yourself? I am trying to figure out how to do that, in smaller sponges i use a sharpened copper tube , but in such a larg block i haven't figured it out yet.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Edvet said:


> Kili did you make that hole in the foam yourself? I am trying to figure out how to do that


 I use similar sponges, they make them for Koi pond etc in 4" (10cm) x 4" x 4", and lengths of 6" (15cm), 8", 12" (30cm) and they are drilled to an inch (25mm) of the bottom, with an inch (25mm) diameter hole.

You can buy an insert for them, but I've always DIY'ed one.

cheers Darrel


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## killi69

Hi Edvet and Darrel.  Mine came with only a small hole, just big enough for a standard 16/22. I used objects with increasingly larger diameters (first other piping, then a broom handle and eventually the pipe I intended to insert) to open up the diameter of the sponge.  It does take a little patience and some brute force but will work eventually.


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Killi69, Great journal  Stunning Aquascape Fab fish too


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## BigTom

Yeah, updates please!


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## Samuran

As he said! Any updates!?


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## Wendal_spanswick

Ditto.


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## alto

Just read through this Journal (thanks to Darrel's excellent link abilities  ) 

Amazing journey - this is another journal that I'd like to see in Featured Journals as it's unique & inspiring 
& seem a shame to be lost in the archives


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## sciencefiction

alto said:


> Just read through this Journal (thanks to Darrel's excellent link abilities



Ha, ha, I just followed one of Darrel's links myself and got here. Very interesting journal and a lovely tank.


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## castle

This is, or was a really lovely tank.


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## killi69

Thank you Castle. I loved that tank but it sadly no longer exists.  I moved house a few years ago and the focus of my hobby changed to keeping killis and other temperate/ subtropical fish outside in tubs and mini ponds. 

You can read more about that here if you are interested.


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