# Going Dutch Tropica 1-2 Grow Style



## Ian Holdich

New journal Time!

I have wanted to try a Dutch scape for a couple of years now, but always felt a little scared to do so as I have never really felt that confident with stems. Anyways here goes!
The difference with this one is that all the plants are Tropica 1-2. The will either make it easier or harder...who knows!
Here's a mock layout (done on paint so a bit rubbish)

layout1 by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


The old scape was taken down yesterday and the tank is now clean and ready to go.
Under Substrate in, i was impressed with this stuff with the old scape.

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

and capped off with Amazonia

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

It should be planted Friday, so pics will be updated then.


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## tim

Plant layout looks awesome Ian, sharp scissors needed  looking forward to this.


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## Alastair

That tank looks like its never seen water lol. Did you polish it........ shiny. 
Looking forward to this one mate


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## Ian Holdich

tim said:


> Plant layout looks awesome Ian, sharp scissors needed  looking forward to this.



Thanks Tim! The scissors are sharpened! Lol
I just hope I can pull it off.



Alastair said:


> That tank looks like its never seen water lol. Did you polish it........ shiny.
> Looking forward to this one mate



Thanks Al! 
Yes mate, it was polished within an inch of it life!


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## sa80mark

I cant wait to see how this turns out, certainly an interesting idea shallow dutch, are you going to dsm ?


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## Ian Holdich

sa80mark said:


> I cant wait to see how this turns out, certainly an interesting idea shallow dutch, are you going to dsm ?



Hey Mark, thanks for the comment. I'm not going to dry start it due to the stems, they need to be drowned ASAP, I can't be doing with any melt a few weeks down the line. This might help if there is any algae outbreaks.


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## stu_

Good luck mate, hope it works out for you.
I've discovered that i jumped into a Dutch style way too early in my own learning curve, but i have every confidence in your stem growing ability. 
Some nice blocks of planting there, not too many streets?
Just an observation, which may not be even right.


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## plantnoob

this should be good . look forward to seeing it planted up . also very interested to see a tank done entirely with 1-2-grow  , as i plan on using a lot of these on my next tank


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## Ian Holdich

stu_ said:


> Good luck mate, hope it works out for you.
> I've discovered that i jumped into a Dutch style way too early in my own learning curve, but i have every confidence in your stem growing ability.
> Some nice blocks of planting there, not too many streets?
> Just an observation, which may not be even right.



Cheers Stu, and thank you for the comment. I'm not sure if there is too many streets tbh, the tank is quite deep, it's 45 cm deep so thought it'd need a few more streets. I hope it's not to many! Lol


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## Ian Holdich

plantnoob said:


> this should be good . look forward to seeing it planted up . also very interested to see a tank done entirely with 1-2-grow  , as i plan on using a lot of these on my next tank



Thank you Mark, from what I have used within the range I have been more than impressed. As said above I just hope it'll come off the way I'm planning.


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## plantnoob

from reading about the 12grow range , 2 things appeal to me . the amount compared to standard pots , and the fact that they are said to adapt better once planted . i'l be keeping a close eye on this 1 for sure


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## George Farmer

Watching with interest mate.


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## Alastair

plantnoob said:


> from reading about the 12grow range , 2 things appeal to me . the amount compared to standard pots , and the fact that they are said to adapt better once planted . i'l be keeping a close eye on this 1 for sure



The 1 2 grow are fantastic.  Ive used tennelus and hygro pinna in my new tank and can see what all the fuss is about now. Well worth it. 


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Brian Murphy

Really like the 1-2 Grow stuff ..... get loads from them aswell


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## gmartins

Ian Holdich said:


> Hey Mark, thanks for the comment. I'm not going to dry start it due to the stems, they need to be drowned ASAP, I can't be doing with any melt a few weeks down the line. This might help if there is any algae outbreaks.


 
If you do not want the initial melt you should avoid the 1-2 grow plants as they are grown emersed... It's like dry-starting...


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## aliclarke86

Yay been looking forward to this since you mentioned it in your last journal


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## Ian Holdich

George Farmer said:


> Watching with interest mate.



Cheers George! Will be wanting some tips on this stems! 



gmartins said:


> If you do not want the initial melt you should avoid the 1-2 grow plants as they are grown emersed... It's like dry-starting...



Ime you get less melt with 1-2 grow than pots. Although 1-2 grow are grown emmersed, I have found that they don't melt as much as pots. The mass is also smaller, so there even less chance of causing problems. 
Good maintainence is the way  forward. 



aliclarke86 said:


> Yay been looking forward to this since you mentioned it in your last journal



Thanks Ali, much appreciated. Will try and keep it up to day on a regular basis! Lol


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## Gary Nelson

Looking forward to seeing your next creation mate


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## Ian Holdich

Gary Nelson said:


> Looking forward to seeing your next creation mate



Thank you Gary, it may not adhere to the plan, was chatting to George last night, and wondering whether to just wash the gel off and plant as the pots come. This way the plants should bush better.


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## George Farmer

gmartins said:


> If you do not want the initial melt you should avoid the 1-2 grow plants as they are grown emersed... It's like dry-starting...


I think this is an interesting topic - DSM vs normal start-up.

Tropica and most other nurseries grow almost all of their plants emerged (except the 100% aquatics like Vallisneria).  They're grown in 'perfect' conditions this way with unlimited access to CO2, huge amounts of light (daylight is far brighter than aquarium lighting), and their nutrient management is amazing.  

Growing plants this way allows them to build-up massive nutrient reserves and strengthens them considerably - from both a physical sense and adaptability perspective. Similar principles apply to their 1-2-Grow range - and these are actually better at adapting than regular emergent growing in the nurseries.

So these plants are really strong, really healthy and full of nourishment when we buy them fresh.

Then we stick them in our tanks - let's say using DSM.

Not so good. The lighting is poorer, nutrients control won't be as effective, and generally the plants will have a harder time at adapting to another emergent environment.

I think it is better to grow these plants right away underwater as soon as possible. This is the way they're designed to be used, and why companies like Tropica have invested so much into making the plants as healthy and strong as possible, allowing them to easily adapt to the wide variety of underwater environments that we, the hobbyists, keep in our aquariums.

Plant melt will be almost non-existent when going straight into underwater growth (submerged) if you use healthy plants from the start-off, and this is where 1-2-Grow and other lab cultured plants come into their own. Obviously your growing conditions (lighting, CO2, nutrients, circulation) need to be appropriate for success. With DSM getting these factors correct during the flooding and transition phase is even more essential.

I think the only time I'd ever bother with DSM again is to grow moss using the blender/yoghurt method.

Ian - sorry for the tangent mate! Good luck with the UG and I love your professional use of Microsoft Paint!! lol


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## Ian Holdich

Nicely put George. There is no tangent to go off, these kinds of comments are gems in journals IMO. 

The UG is the only (well not the only thing) I'm really bothered about from start up. I just hope I can make it through the first couple of weeks with it. I will use all my skills, including talking to my plants...

If anyone ever needs any MS paint tuition please give me a shout, as you can see, I'm like Bill Gates when it comes to Paint!


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## George Farmer

Ian, have you considered taking the opportunity to cut a hole into the side of your cabinet so you can have the filter hoses and glassware coming through?


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## Ian Holdich

I have thought about it, as the joins are now glued I can't take the cabinet to bits. Might just leave the glass as it was on the last scape. It seemed to work ok. 

For those that can't work out the plants above here's the proper list.
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'
Ammania sp. 'Bonsai
Echinodorus tenellus
Eleocharis sp. 'mini'
Glossostigma elatinoides
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Marsilea hirsuta
Nymphoides sp. ''Taiwan''
Pogostemon erectus
Rotala macrandra
Staurogyne repens
Utricularia Graminifolia


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## Alastair

Do you not play music to your plants too mate.  I do 

George is right though especially about the 1 2 grow transitioning.  Ive had 4ft square full carpets worth of tennelus 1 2 grow and hygro pinna 1 2 grow and they have transitioned brilliantly. Ive had zero melt and growth is fantastic and that's in a low tech.  

Im really looking forward to seeing how this goes from tiny plants to a lovely Dutch garden mate. 



Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ian Holdich

They've got the new 'Beady eye' album to be going on with at the moment. 

I'm quite looking forward to getting the plants now...I wish I didn't have 13 hours of work tomorrow.


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## The Doctor's Companion

This is an interesting project you've started, Ian, and good choice of plants too. I love Ammania `Bonzai´, especially for a dutch style tank, because you can keep it low-trimmed and planted in a close cluster to almost mimic a hardscape.
I'm sure you can get lots of advice from Michael and Mark on what to do (_And what not to do_) with a full 1-2-grow tank and I'm sure it will be very interesting to follow.


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## Antoni

That is very interesting one, Ian! Will keep an eye on it! Quite a challenge as well!


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## Ian Holdich

The Doctor's Companion said:


> This is an interesting project you've started, Ian, and good choice of plants too. I love Ammania `Bonzai´, especially for a dutch style tank, because you can keep it low-trimmed and planted in a close cluster to almost mimic a hardscape.
> I'm sure you can get lots of advice from Michael and Mark on what to do (_And what not to do_) with a full 1-2-grow tank and I'm sure it will be very interesting to follow.



Thanks for the comment, hopefully I can do the plants proud.



Antoni said:


> That is very interesting one, Ian! Will keep an eye on it! Quite a challenge as well!



Cheers Antoni, it's very much a challenge. I hope I can do it and it won't fall flat on its face.


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## Mick.Dk

Ian.......... you can do it (if needed wth a littl hel from your frinds, as song goes )
Mick.


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## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Cheers Antoni, it's very much a challenge. I hope I can do it and it won't fall flat on its face.


sure it wont Ian, no doubt it will challenge you but you will rise to it.  
Only thing i would mention is having read from Tom Barr that UG isnt keen on new nutrient rich substrate?  No experience with it personally so couldnt comment from experience.  It is a beaut of a plant!
Very keen to see you develop another show stopper.


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## gmartins

George Farmer said:


> I think this is an interesting topic - DSM vs normal start-up.
> 
> Tropica and most other nurseries grow almost all of their plants emerged (except the 100% aquatics like Vallisneria). They're grown in 'perfect' conditions this way with unlimited access to CO2, huge amounts of light (daylight is far brighter than aquarium lighting), and their nutrient management is amazing.
> 
> Growing plants this way allows them to build-up massive nutrient reserves and strengthens them considerably - from both a physical sense and adaptability perspective. Similar principles apply to their 1-2-Grow range - and these are actually better at adapting than regular emergent growing in the nurseries.
> 
> So these plants are really strong, really healthy and full of nourishment when we buy them fresh.
> 
> Then we stick them in our tanks - let's say using DSM.
> 
> Not so good. The lighting is poorer, nutrients control won't be as effective, and generally the plants will have a harder time at adapting to another emergent environment.
> 
> I think it is better to grow these plants right away underwater as soon as possible. This is the way they're designed to be used, and why companies like Tropica have invested so much into making the plants as healthy and strong as possible, allowing them to easily adapt to the wide variety of underwater environments that we, the hobbyists, keep in our aquariums.
> 
> Plant melt will be almost non-existent when going straight into underwater growth (submerged) if you use healthy plants from the start-off, and this is where 1-2-Grow and other lab cultured plants come into their own. Obviously your growing conditions (lighting, CO2, nutrients, circulation) need to be appropriate for success. With DSM getting these factors correct during the flooding and transition phase is even more essential.
> 
> I think the only time I'd ever bother with DSM again is to grow moss using the blender/yoghurt method.
> 
> Ian - sorry for the tangent mate! Good luck with the UG and I love your professional use of Microsoft Paint!! lol


 
Alternatively, they just produce plants emersed (or emerged; I do not know which is correct) because there is no algae translating into a greater profit. They also cut on the expenses with light and water (much lower levels needed). The agar option is probably even a cheaper option once optimized while guaranteeing a product of quality.

I agree that plants will always need to adapt when changing environments: dry-dry, dry-wet or wet-dry. I do not agree however that plants are in sub-optimal condition when using DSM. If you go to my journal (Quiet Little Thing) you can see that I used the DSM for a few months (I was waiting for some stuff and was keen on getting things growing), all plants have more than doubled in size and look quite healthy. I have not made any analysis but I bet that they are quite nourished. Otherwise, they wouldn't grow for 3-4 months. Even if they had built up massive reserves while in Tropica these surely cannot last this long.


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## George Farmer

gmartins said:


> I do not agree however that plants are in sub-optimal condition when using DSM.


That's fair enough. 

I was going on my experience when I tried DSM for a few weeks, then flooding. I can see long-term DSM has worked great for you.


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## Antoni

> Cheers Antoni, it's very much a challenge. I hope I can do it and it won't fall flat on its face.


 
I'm sure you will make not only the plants proud but also all of us


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## stu_

Ian Holdich said:


> Cheers Stu, and thank you for the comment. I'm not sure if there is too many streets tbh, the tank is quite deep, it's 45 cm deep so thought it'd need a few more streets. I hope it's not to many! Lol


 
Lol
I didn't write that original post too well, and going to disagree with myself 
I meant you might need more streets IMO,maybe the Stau?


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## Ian Holdich

Antoni said:


> I'm sure you will make not only the plants proud but also all of us



Cheers mate! 



stu_ said:


> Lol
> I didn't write that original post too well, and going to disagree with myself
> I meant you might need more streets IMO,maybe the Stau?



It's difficult really with pot size and not a deal of tall stems to choose from. I do get what you're say though. The tank is only 60 cm also.


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## Ian Holdich

We have plants! 


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## sa80mark

Wow that was quick, looks youve got plenty of work ahead


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## Yo-han

Very curious how this turns out. I don't want to be nag, but two red plants next to each other is an absolute no-no in Dutch style. You won't even make it through the regional contest no matter how neat the plants look

Marco translated all the rules ones for UKAPS: Crash course Dutch style Aquascaping | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Alastair

Ian Holdich said:


> We have plants!
> 
> 
> image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


 

hollllllllyyyyyyy. pure plant porn (can i say that??)  mate.


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## George Farmer

Looking good mate.

For me the most exciting time in the whole aquascaping process is when the tank is empty. Infinite potential. Then it's closely followed by receiving loads of plants! 



sa80mark said:


> Wow that was quick, looks youve got plenty of work ahead


I'm not sure he has... 

Seriously though - I would consider just rinsing off the agar jelly and planting the whole pot in a 'one-r'. I've seen it done and it works a treat. Shouldn't take long at all.

Ian and I discussed this the other evening. 

I think most of us will be surprised at how quick and healthily these plants will grow, especially with Ian behind the 'wheel'.

I'm excited.


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## Ian Holdich

sa80mark said:


> Wow that was quick, looks youve got plenty of work ahead



Story of my life...and yes there'll be planting of many tomorrow. 



Yo-han said:


> Very curious how this turns out. I don't want to be nag, but two red plants next to each other is an absolute no-no in Dutch style. You won't even make it through the regional contest no matter how neat the plants look
> 
> Marco translated all the rules ones for UKAPS: Crash course Dutch style Aquascaping | UK Aquatic Plant Society



I really appreciate that, tbh this is one thing I overlooked, even though I read that. Thanks again. I think we need a bit of a re think. 



Alastair said:


> hollllllllyyyyyyy. pure plant porn (can i say that??)  mate.



Lol, tell me about it!


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## Ian Holdich

George Farmer said:


> Looking good mate.
> 
> For me the most exciting time in the whole aquascaping process is when the tank is empty. Infinite potential. Then it's closely followed by receiving loads of plants!
> 
> 
> I'm not sure he has...
> 
> Seriously though - I would consider just rinsing off the agar jelly and planting the whole pot in a 'one-r'. I've seen it done and it works a treat. Shouldn't take long at all.
> 
> Ian and I discussed this the other evening.
> 
> I think most of us will be surprised at how quick and healthily these plants will grow, especially with Ian behind the 'wheel'.
> 
> I'm excited.



Cheers George! 

I was thinking again about it, and maybe cutting into fours to spread a little as there is some decent sized gaps between pots in places. 
Really excited now!


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## Gary Nelson

Now then young Ian... Are you forgetting to tell us all that some of your lotto numbers came up?!

That's allot of 1-2 grow.... This scape should be called "192.50 grow"


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## Ian Holdich

Gary Nelson said:


> Now then young Ian... Are you forgetting to tell us all that some of your lotto numbers came up?!
> 
> That's allot of 1-2 grow.... This scape should be called "192.50 grow"



I wish mate! This tank is sponsored by Tropica...so no, the numbers didn't come up lol.


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## Gary Nelson

Ian Holdich said:


> I wish mate! This tank is sponsored by Tropica...so no, the numbers didn't come up lol.


 
Nice one... it looks a cracking line up of plants and I'm really looking forward to seeing more 

PS, speaking of  lotto numbers...when my euro numbers pop up tomorrow night I will get you that sunken helicopter you dream of


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## Ian Holdich

Just get me a nice Audi, with a nice clean engine!


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## Ady34

This is gonna be insane.....no hardscape, just lines of interest created with plants.
I'm sure with your knowledge and experience you'll succeed, but that amount of stems terrifies me......and you'll need a good scissor sharpener! 
You are a brave and adventurous man Holdich, looking forward to seeing how this progresses.


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## plantnoob

plant it ! plant it now !!!


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## Piece-of-fish

Ian Holdich said:


> Just get me a nice Audi, with a nice clean engine!


Audi80, 1989


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## DrRob

Ian Holdich said:


> I wish mate! This tank is sponsored by Tropica...so no, the numbers didn't come up lol.


 

I did wonder.

I suppose I'll have to forgive you for breaking down your last scape now, this should be good to watch.


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## Ian Holdich

Ady34 said:


> This is gonna be insane.....no hardscape, just lines of interest created with plants.
> I'm sure with your knowledge and experience you'll succeed, but that amount of stems terrifies me......and you'll need a good scissor sharpener!
> You are a brave and adventurous man Holdich, looking forward to seeing how this progresses.



Thank ady! Experience or not it scares the bejesus out of me also! Lol



Piece-of-fish said:


> Audi80, 1989



The rally Quattro was an awesome car! 




DrRob said:


> I did wonder.
> 
> I suppose I'll have to forgive you for breaking down your last scape now, this should be good to watch.



Thanks Rob, will miss the last scape tbh, I didn't have to do much to it in the end. Just goes to show hard work in the beginning pays off.


There has been a few changes around today. It's all planted now, and the water is clearing, I will get some up to date pics up tomorrow.
There was a few floaters, so it took me longer than I thought it would to actually plant. 
Here's a quick pic of the planting. 

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## Gary Nelson

Excellent prep work mate.... And looking at the plants you have chosen they are going to compliment each other very nicely - a very difficult thing you are doing here, especially in the small form they are in.... I'm very sure it will come together nicely and I'm really looking forward to seeing more photos and watching the progress evolve.


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## sa80mark

I really cant wait to see this develop its so far from anything ive seen or read about, absolutely inspirational and the colour of the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' what can you say its brilliant


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## Alastair

looking forward to seeing it flooded mate, that e tennelus will grow rampant in no time especially with co2. did you break it up at all last minute or just leave it as three seperate clumps.


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## Ian Holdich

Gary Nelson said:


> Excellent prep work mate.... And looking at the plants you have chosen they are going to compliment each other very nicely - a very difficult thing you are doing here, especially in the small form they are in.... I'm very sure it will come together nicely and I'm really looking forward to seeing more photos and watching the progress evolve.



Cheers for the comment Gary, I hope they will compliment each other, I hope I can get the macaranda to go the colour it's supposed to! Lol



sa80mark said:


> I really cant wait to see this develop its so far from anything ive seen or read about, absolutely inspirational and the colour of the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' what can you say its brilliant



Thank you Mark! There was something done like this a while back when in vitro cups first came out. I have always fancied doing something like this, and I know it'll be hard, but we have to try.



Alastair said:


> looking forward to seeing it flooded mate, that e tennelus will grow rampant in no time especially with co2. did you break it up at all last minute or just leave it as three seperate clumps.



Thanks Al, I didn't get any tennelus in the end. The plants are beginning to stand up already. I did have to chop a few bits up as they were floating.


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## Ian Holdich

We now have water and have some settled plants...they are already starting to take shape, which is really quick. Shrimp have also gone in. 


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## justin85

interesting concept, look forward to watching your new project grow in.


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## Greenview

This looks great. Cannot wait to see it when it is grown in.


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## Ian Holdich

justin85 said:


> interesting concept, look forward to watching your new project grow in.



Thanks for the comment Justin. It's unreal how it's grown already! 



Greenview said:


> This looks great. Cannot wait to see it when it is grown in.



Thank you greenview. Am already thinking about stocking!


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## Alastair

Does look different already. Im sure you habe a gaseous form of steroids you inject with your co2 ha ha. 

This will look great

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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## Iain Sutherland

great to see it coming to life already Ian, will be really interesting watching it develop over the next few weeks.
Your going to be a busy boy trimming all that at the rate you grow plants!


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## Ian Holdich

Alastair said:


> Does look different already. Im sure you habe a gaseous form of steroids you inject with your co2 ha ha.
> 
> This will look great
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2



Cheers Al! It really does look different. Can't wait to see it in a week.


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## Ian Holdich

Iain Sutherland said:


> great to see it coming to life already Ian, will be really interesting watching it develop over the next few weeks.
> Your going to be a busy boy trimming all that at the rate you grow plants!



Thanks Iain, and tell me about it. I wonder if I'm going to regret this one! Lol


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## Ian Holdich

Last pics for a few days I promise! Here's a few of how the plants are bearing up...
Nymphoides sp. ''Taiwan

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Heteranthera zosterifolia

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Rotala macrandra

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## andyh

Ian 

Love it!! Good to see something different, the many different species are great. 

On a selfish note your helping me with my new scape as i am checking out all your 1-2 grows and choosing the ones i like for my new one.


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## bluemoon280

I am liking the alteranthera 'mini, looks in great condition and colour. Hmmmm I may have to make some space. 
Regards


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## plantnoob

those 1-2-grow look great . cant wait to see this 1 mature


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## Aron_Dip

Looking good mate, keep the updates and pic flowing


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## George Farmer

I didn't realise you had Nymphoides and HZ - good luck controlling them mate. They'll be at the surface by the end of the week! 

Nice photos, by the way.


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## dw1305

Hi all,


George Farmer said:


> I didn't realise you had Nymphoides and HZ - good luck controlling them mate. They'll be at the surface by the end of the week!


Could be a good thing, once they reach the surface if you leave them they will flower. I have had flowering_ Heteranthera_ and is a stunner, and N. "Taiwan" looks good as well.
_<  Nymphoides sp. ‘Taiwan’ Flower-- Guitarfish> & <Heteranthera zosterifolia>._

cheers Darrel


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## Ian Holdich

andyh said:


> Ian
> 
> Love it!! Good to see something different, the many different species are great.
> 
> On a selfish note your helping me with my new scape as i am checking out all your 1-2 grows and choosing the ones i like for my new one.



Thanks Andy! Glad to be of help mate! 



bluemoon280 said:


> I am liking the alteranthera 'mini, looks in great condition and colour. Hmmmm I may have to make some space.
> Regards




It's a really nice plant, I have used this one before, and keeps it colour really well. 



plantnoob said:


> those 1-2-grow look great . cant wait to see this 1 mature



Cheers Mark! Just got back from work and it looks different again. 



Aron_Dip said:


> Looking good mate, keep the updates and pic flowing



Thank you for the comment Aron. 



George Farmer said:


> I didn't realise you had Nymphoides and HZ - good luck controlling them mate. They'll be at the surface by the end of the week!
> 
> Nice photos, by the way.



Cheers George! They're nearly there already mate...god knows how I'm gonna keep them going for 3 months! 



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Could be a good thing, once they reach the surface if you leave them they will flower. I have had flowering_ Heteranthera_ and is a stunner, and N. "Taiwan" looks good as well.
> _<  Nymphoides sp. ‘Taiwan’ Flower-- Guitarfish> & <Heteranthera zosterifolia>._
> 
> cheers Darrel




Cheers for that Darrel, might be worth a try before I chop em back.


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## Aron_Dip

Ian Holdich said:


> Aron_Dip said: ↑ Looking good mate, keep the updates and pic flowing  Thank you for the comment Aron.


no problem mate.. you can always tell the noobs like me who comment, wish i could say more but i aint that clued up yet lol


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## plantnoob

if it looks different again , surely thats an excuse for ,ore piccies mate


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## tim

Will have to try these 1-2 grow plants soon they do look the business Ian, will you be adding the bucep's to this scape later ? You can always post them to me if you need to rehome them  looking forward to future progress pics.


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## Ian Holdich

tim said:


> Will have to try these 1-2 grow plants soon they do look the business Ian, will you be adding the bucep's to this scape later ? You can always post them to me if you need to rehome them  looking forward to future progress pics.



Cheers for the comment Tim, the bucephalandra is in my low tech nano at present. Will try and get a couple more pics up later.


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## Ian Holdich

So, I'm begging ing to actually believe that I might not be able to leave the scissors more than a week! 

Dosing at present is as follows, Tropica premium 5 pumps Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Tropica specialised five pumps on the other days. Also some extra iron a couple of times a week. 


Dutch 1-2 grow by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


Dutch 1-2 grow by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## cookie3985

One word "WOW". That growth is amazing the conditions must be perfect for them. This is going to be a lot of work Ian, on one hand I do envy you because it looks great but I won't envy the work you will have to put in to keep those stems in check.


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Double WOW 
HZ is ... HUGE!!!
It's going to be one tank to remember...


----------



## George Farmer

I tried to tell you all that you wouldn't believe the growth rates... 

Looking good mate. Question is, how long can you maintain this for?!


----------



## The Doctor's Companion

This looks brilliant Ian. I was worried it would look a bit _too_ clean, but it's growing in nicely. You'll have a jungle soon enough


----------



## cookie3985

Hi Ian me again, whats the CO2 injection rate and is the light on full power? Cheers


----------



## Iain Sutherland

hahaha thats madness.  looks tops though bud.


----------



## Ian Holdich

cookie3985 said:


> One word "WOW". That growth is amazing the conditions must be perfect for them. This is going to be a lot of work Ian, on one hand I do envy you because it looks great but I won't envy the work you will have to put in to keep those stems in check.


Cheers cookie, I don't envy me either...I have a weeks away in 2 weeks also! Lol
To answer your other question as its on another page I won't quote it...the co2 is running at 2 bps though an inline diffuser. The tile is on full power, as it was all the way through the last scape. I need the macaranda to go red! 



pmgsr said:


> Double WOW
> HZ is ... HUGE!!!
> It's going to be one tank to remember...



Thank you Pedro, I really appreciate the comment.



George Farmer said:


> I tried to tell you all that you wouldn't believe the growth rates...
> 
> Looking good mate. Question is, how long can you maintain this for?!



It's all about the Roids! 

And thank you, I'm unsure I can keep this going for 90 days...



The Doctor's Companion said:


> This looks brilliant Ian. I was worried it would look a bit _too_ clean, but it's growing in nicely. You'll have a jungle soon enough



Thank you Ida, tbh I want it to look a little more clinical than the other scapes I have done. Not too clinical though!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Iain Sutherland said:


> hahaha thats madness.  looks tops though bud.



Thank you Iain!


----------



## Alastair

blaaaardy hell 

 im telling you Ian is using some secret concoction of fuel injected co2. massive growth mate this is looking superb


----------



## plantnoob

unbelievable difference ! you must be well pleased . this is going to be gorgeous


----------



## Greenview

That is amazing growth. Really impressed, but don't envy your pruning sessions over the coming weeks.


----------



## tim

Amazing growth, and the start of an amazing scape, can see an increase in demand for the 12grow plants, hopefully people can also see the hard work your supplying these plants with. Top job so far Ian.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Alastair said:


> blaaaardy hell
> 
> im telling you Ian is using some secret concoction of fuel injected co2. massive growth mate this is looking superb



Thanks Al, lets hope I can keep it looking ok. Lol



plantnoob said:


> unbelievable difference ! you must be well pleased . this is going to be gorgeous



Thanks mark, I am very pleased with the way things have started...it's still early doors though. 



Greenview said:


> That is amazing growth. Really impressed, but don't envy your pruning sessions over the coming weeks.



Cheers greenview, I don't envy myself either. We'll see what happens.



tim said:


> Amazing growth, and the start of an amazing scape, can see an increase in demand for the 12grow plants, hopefully people can also see the hard work your supplying these plants with. Top job so far Ian.



Thanks Tim, it's not been too much hard work as yet. The planting was hard work, but as you say, hopefully we will reap the benefits from it.


----------



## stu_

This is insane,love it so far.Think you might have to revise your 3 months...
Are you running 2 filters, same as the end of your last scape.? Outlets at the sides, inlets in the middle?
Sorry, always seem to be asking about your flow !


----------



## Ian Holdich

stu_ said:


> This is insane,love it so far.Think you might have to revise your 3 months...
> Are you running 2 filters, same as the end of your last scape.? Outlets at the sides, inlets in the middle?
> Sorry, always seem to be asking about your flow !



Thanks Stu! And yes, it's gonna be a long 3 months...

Yes, there is 2 filters on the tank. The outlets are on the outside. The inlets in the middle. I find this works quite well. I was gonna get some 90 degree angles and have the inlet and outlet at the side, but I feel more confident the way I have it, as it worked well in the last scape. If it ain't broke...


----------



## clone

Hi Ian amazing tank as your previous set up. I have got a question about rotala. Is that normal to curl the leaves or is some sort of deficiency? Mine is also 123 grow. The rest of the plans are ok just the rotala looks curly like cabbage Some people saying that red plans need more PO4 is that true?


----------



## Ian Holdich

clone said:


> Hi Ian amazing tank as your previous set up. I have got a question about rotala. Is that normal to curl the leaves or is some sort of deficiency? Mine is also 123 grow. The rest of the plans are ok just the rotala looks curly like cabbage Some people saying that red plans need more PO4 is that true?



Thanks for the comment Clone, the previous pic was only a couple of days after planting. It looks different again now. There are a lot of different theories on red plants. Some being stave them of p04 and no3, I suppose this just put them into a kind of shock reaction. Then there's the high iron theory...I'm not sure to be perfectly honest. If I can get this red it'll be an achievement for me.

Here it is now, it's thinking about going red (I think lol)

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

And here's a proper first full tank shot.

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Great growth.....you not tempted to scissor some of them already?


----------



## aliclarke86

Holy...dude insane growth.....5 more days and its gonna be out the top for sure


----------



## Gary Nelson

That growth is incredible!!! What you feeding them on.... spinach?


----------



## Ian Holdich

Ady34 said:


> Great growth.....you not tempted to scissor some of them already?



I haven't got time yet, working flat out at present, which I think is a good thing! 



aliclarke86 said:


> Holy...dude insane growth.....5 more days and its gonna be out the top for sure



I think you're right, a couple more days and it'll be at the top. I'm gonna wait a bit, as I need to know they'll all be rooted well. 



Gary Nelson said:


> That growth is incredible!!! What you feeding them on.... spinach?



Yep, liquidised spinach twice a day! Lol


----------



## Alastair

That's mental growth ian lol. I reckon youll be fed up of trimming after a few weeks ha ha. Looks great.


----------



## Mark Evans

That's 1-2 grow for you. IMO,way too early for trimming.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Cheers guys.

Still no trim, and things seem to have just slowed down a tad. I'm getting a little nervous about the P.erectus though, it's not doing anything! Lol

Here's a couple of pics, taken on the ipad so, not the best quality.


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr



image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## DrRob

2 weeks ago these were in little plastic pots. This is insane.


----------



## Yo-han

Looking very healthy still. Can I criticise your work too? Constructive of course, like you did with mine In Dutch style streets should always run diagonally from front to back. Never parallel to the glass. This is especially apparent with the Alternathera. Maybe you can adjust that a little with the next trim

About the slower growth. That is exactly my experience. The first two weeks the 1-2 grows grow like crazy, like on steroids (perhaps there is some in the gel ). After two weeks it slows down, and they grow like regular plants.


----------



## Alastair

looks great mate, bummer about the p. erectus though. i reckon youll have trimmed the right side of that tank ten times over before it hits the surface lol


----------



## Ian Holdich

DrRob said:


> 2 weeks ago these were in little plastic pots. This is insane.



Tell me about it Rob! It's almost an instant aquarium. 



Yo-han said:


> Looking very healthy still. Can I criticise your work too? Constructive of course, like you did with mine In Dutch style streets should always run diagonally from front to back. Never parallel to the glass. This is especially apparent with the Alternathera. Maybe you can adjust that a little with the next trim
> 
> About the slower growth. That is exactly my experience. The first two weeks the 1-2 grows grow like crazy, like on steroids (perhaps there is some in the gel ). After two weeks it slows down, and they grow like regular plants.



Thank you Yo-Han, I love a bit of constructive criticism. I agree with you and will aim to diagonalise the A mini when I trim it. Thank you again for the comment. I'm no expert in this style of tank



Alastair said:


> looks great mate, bummer about the p. erectus though. i reckon youll have trimmed the right side of that tank ten times over before it hits the surface lol



Cheers mate, I'm perhaps being a bit impatient, It's because the rest has gone mental.


----------



## Yo-han

Ian Holdich said:


> Thank you Yo-Han, I love a bit of constructive criticism. I agree with you and will aim to diagonalise the A mini when I trim it. Thank you again for the comment. I'm no expert in this style of tank.


 
You're welcome! I've done quite a few Dutch setups for clients now, but it has never been my style. Too many rules! For example, the aquarium should only be visible from the front, the back and sides should be fully grown and normally use panels to cover it. Yours is visible from at least 4 sides. But growing plants to the left and right you can create an illusion it is only visible from the front.
Second most important rule is only 1 plant specie per 10 cm length of the tank. So you're already losing lots of points
Next, there should always fit a finger between every group. So it should not be too crowded. Than you've the Nymphoides on two places  Every plant should only be in one group, not in different places! And plants like Echinos and lilies are considered solitairs. You can only have 1 solitair in a tank and it should be placed on the golden rule in the middle or back of the tank, never in a corner.

All of these rules are visible in the aquarium of the Grand Prize winner Willem van Wezel:





Don't get me wrong, I'm not binding you to these rules (I don't like them either), but that is what Dutch style is (plant wise, animals, water parameters and technique are very important as well and will all be checked in real life!!) Right now, any NBAT judge would not even consider it Dutch style I'm affraid And although you would receive maximum points for plant health, you'll probably end up in the bottom for not following the rules...

You see why I switched to nature style, haha!


----------



## danmullan

Insane growth Ian, can't wait 'till you start shaping the stems.


----------



## plantnoob

this is developing nicely mate .  you are making me want to get my next tank and do a dutch scape even more than i already did !


----------



## Ian Holdich

Yo-han said:


> You're welcome! I've done quite a few Dutch setups for clients now, but it has never been my style. Too many rules! For example, the aquarium should only be visible from the front, the back and sides should be fully grown and normally use panels to cover it. Yours is visible from at least 4 sides. But growing plants to the left and right you can create an illusion it is only visible from the front.
> Second most important rule is only 1 plant specie per 10 cm length of the tank. So you're already losing lots of points
> Next, there should always fit a finger between every group. So it should not be too crowded. Than you've the Nymphoides on two places  Every plant should only be in one group, not in different places! And plants like Echinos and lilies are considered solitairs. You can only have 1 solitair in a tank and it should be placed on the golden rule in the middle or back of the tank, never in a corner.
> 
> All of these rules are visible in the aquarium of the Grand Prize winner Willem van Wezel:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not binding you to these rules (I don't like them either), but that is what Dutch style is (plant wise, animals, water parameters and technique are very important as well and will all be checked in real life!!) Right now, any NBAT judge would not even consider it Dutch style I'm affraid And although you would receive maximum points for plant health, you'll probably end up in the bottom for not following the rules...
> 
> You see why I switched to nature style, haha!



Thanks again for the rule check, but I wouldn't mind being last tbh...maybe it's time for them to review the rules? Lol



danmullan said:


> Insane growth Ian, can't wait 'till you start shaping the stems.




Cheers Dan, I might give it a trim this weekend.



plantnoob said:


> this is developing nicely mate .  you are making me want to get my next tank and do a dutch scape even more than i already did !



Thanks Mark! Do mate!


----------



## plantnoob

all being well im looking to treat myself to a 100cm optiwhite for christmas , so its a case of when rather than if


----------



## Yo-han

Ian Holdich said:


> maybe it's time for them to review the rules? Lol


 
Well said! They still give points reduction for 'unnatural' PO4 and NO3. Everybody need to do a 90% waterchange before a house visit and dose nutrients after. How lame?!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Yo-han said:


> Well said! They still give points reduction for 'unnatural' PO4 and NO3. Everybody need to do a 90% waterchange before a house visit and dose nutrients after. How lame?!




They do house visits! The more I hear/read about the Dutch comps makes me think I should just stick to nature aquariums!


----------



## Yo-han

Yes, house visits. It's not only about the layout, water parameters, number and species compatibility, technique and safety, even placing in your house, everything is graded. The total of everything makes up whether you are the best planted tank keeper. And perhaps the hardest thing, there are regional finals before the national finals a few months later. Meaning your aquarium should be tiptop at least a few months long. So it is not really about the best aquascaper. But don't worry, you're not bound to this, just wanted to give you some inside in real Dutch style


----------



## George Farmer

I have a lot of respect for the Dutch masters.  Their self-discipline is excellent and something we could all learn from - it doesn't have to be exclusive to Dutch aquascaping.

I really like the idea of house visits for aquascaping contests.  Not practical on a large scale though. I guess the next best thing would be video, and I wonder if this will happen in the future.  Much harder to cheat with video entries too.

Anyway, tank's looking great Ian. Plant health looks super. I wonder if your R. macrandra will turn red soon?  

How are you finding the formality of this style vs. the Nature Aquarium style?  Do you really like it for its actual style, or are you enjoying it more from a challenge and interest perspective?  I don't think I'll do another Dutch-style for a good while, but never say never!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Yo-han said:


> Yes, house visits. It's not only about the layout, water parameters, number and species compatibility, technique and safety, even placing in your house, everything is graded. The total of everything makes up whether you are the best planted tank keeper. And perhaps the hardest thing, there are regional finals before the national finals a few months later. Meaning your aquarium should be tiptop at least a few months long. So it is not really about the best aquascaper. But don't worry, you're not bound to this, just wanted to give you some inside in real Dutch style



Thanks again Yo-Han for the insight. Good job I'm not bound to this! Lol



George Farmer said:


> I have a lot of respect for the Dutch masters.  Their self-discipline is excellent and something we could all learn from - it doesn't have to be exclusive to Dutch aquascaping.
> 
> I really like the idea of house visits for aquascaping contests.  Not practical on a large scale though. I guess the next best thing would be video, and I wonder if this will happen in the future.  Much harder to cheat with video entries too.
> 
> Anyway, tank's looking great Ian. Plant health looks super. I wonder if your R. macrandra will turn red soon?
> 
> How are you finding the formality of this style vs. the Nature Aquarium style?  Do you really like it for its actual style, or are you enjoying it more from a challenge and interest perspective?  I don't think I'll do another Dutch-style for a good while, but never say never!



Thanks George, the video thing was talked about a lot wasn't it. It turned out files would be massive though, as everyone would be shooting in 1080. 
I've had a chat with mick and he says to hang on in with the Mac, I have chopped them and re planted, so we'll see.
Tbh George I'm finding it a little boring. I'm enjoying it from a stem challenge, but the ascetic side is a little boring. 

I need wood!


----------



## Yo-han

Ian Holdich said:


> I need wood!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Woohoo the R.Macaranda has started to really go red...


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Not much else to report. It's all been trimmed down, so the pics look exactly like the first ones lol.


----------



## Alastair

Looking lush and healthy mate. I have a feeling a new scape will be on the horizon very soon 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## sa80mark

Really nice,  the colours are unreal 

What % are you running the tile at ?


----------



## Mick.Dk

Good going on the Rot. macrandra, Ian - so now we want to see the Amannia getting orange tips, please ...............
Mick.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Alastair said:


> Looking lush and healthy mate. I have a feeling a new scape will be on the horizon very soon
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2




Give it another month or so I reckon. Tbh is has all slowed down, thank god! 



sa80mark said:


> Really nice,  the colours are unreal
> 
> What % are you running the tile at ?



Cheers Mark...the tile is running at 100%, as it was in the last scape. As long as you have the c02 balance you won't have any problems.



Mick.Dk said:


> Good going on the Rot. macrandra, Ian - so now we want to see the Amannia getting orange tips, please ...............
> Mick.



Cheers Mick! 
Gonna have to find that orange paint!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Going away for five days...the lighting has been dropped to 4 hours and c02 to 6 hours. The tank won't be dosed as I don't have anyone trust worthy enough to do it lol! Massive water change this morning, and dosed accordingly.

Here's a quick snap of the reflections in the tank.

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Lush, full already and red 
Enjoy your trip away.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Ady34 said:


> Lush, full already and red
> Enjoy your trip away.



Cheers Ady, it will get another trim when I get back, hope the reds stay red with the light length decreased. 

Here's another quick pic, then I'm off! 

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Looks like a real summer garden mate, well i suppose it is really, just with fish in!


----------



## faizal

Wow,...what a spotless tank. Amazing skills in photography too. It's lovely Iain.


----------



## tim

Exceptional plant health mate, I can see why your getting bored with it though definitely needs moss covered wood  enjoy your break Ian.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Thanks everyone, struggling with 'o' Internet access so everything is really slow.

I'm really happy with the plant health I the tank, can't praise 1-2 grow enough tbh.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Just got back in from our short break away and everything is ok (ish), the R Mac hasn't gone as red with, all I can think, dropping the light levels for 5 days. It also hasn't been dosed at all. It looks like it's ready for its second trim in a few days though.


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## fish fodder

Blimey


----------



## Ian Holdich

Boring update alert! 

Not much to tell, things are growing, the pogo isn't growing to quick still.


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


----------



## NanoJames

That looks great Ian! I've been wanting to try a 1-2 Grow pot for ages but don't have room in my nano!


----------



## Gary Nelson

It looks great Ian! It looks loads more mature than its age and the plant growth is incredible too... Just goes to show how powerful those LED tiles are as well.


----------



## foxfish

Lots of envious  people watching this I would think!


----------



## Ian Holdich

NanoJames said:


> That looks great Ian! I've been wanting to try a 1-2 Grow pot for ages but don't have room in my nano!



Thank you James! Sounds like its time for a re scape then! 



Gary Nelson said:


> It looks great Ian! It looks loads more mature than its age and the plant growth is incredible too... Just goes to show how powerful those LED tiles are as well.



Thank you Gary, the tiles are great IMO, the best lighting I have used. Thanks again mate. 



foxfish said:


> Lots of envious  people watching this I would think!



Cheers Foxfish, that is very humbling, again thank you for the comment.


----------



## faizal

Ian,..do you have 2 lily pipes in there? Whats your total filtration turnover rate please? It's looking magical,...spotless tank.


----------



## George Farmer

Looking good mate, but honestly, I bet you can't wait to do another Nature Aquarium!!?


----------



## aliclarke86

I agree. This must feel a bit like farming 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Ian Holdich

faizal said:


> Ian,..do you have 2 lily pipes in there? Whats your total filtration turnover rate please? It's looking magical,...spotless tank.



Thank you faizal, there is a ehiem 2073 and a hydor prime 600, so 1750ltr per hour at the moment. Obviously there's a slight on that. 



George Farmer said:


> Looking good mate, but honestly, I bet you can't wait to do another Nature Aquarium!!?



Thanks George, mate...I'm finding this an arduous journey, and ill be glad never to see a stem plant again! It'll be worth it in the end though (I hope)



aliclarke86 said:


> I agree. This must feel a bit like farming
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2



Cheers mate, yes it is, the mrs likes it though...I don't know why!


----------



## Lee Sweeting

looking good Ian


----------



## plantbrain

Cut cut cut!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Lee Sweeting said:


> looking good Ian




Thanks lee! 



plantbrain said:


> Cut cut cut!



Cheers Tom, I might just hack it all to an inch long to see how it turns out! Just for a laugh.


----------



## plantbrain

They are weeds, so cut cut cut.

A few old methods,= uproot and replant tops only= more work.
But a clean consistent look.

Topping= easy as dirt, but need to wait for regrowth.
Over time, you will likely end up topping mostly, and uprooting only the few must have species.
Topping works best for making a nice shape. Over time though, you might need to eventually uproot and replant and start with a nice cleaner planting.


----------



## plantbrain

Also, I would suggest to test which plants respond best to various trim methods, then make a catalog (mentally or otherwise) of which methods are best suited to various species.
For example, I've found poor regrowth if you top R. wallichii, but if you uproot and replant the tops, it grows wonderfully.
Rotala mini butterfly does well either way.
Downoi, well, you can top, but if you uproot and replant, you get a nicer fuller carpet and more plants to sell off. 
A common stem plant: likely best to treat just like you would a hedge outside next to the house.
Grass like plants: mow just like you do a lawn.
Most all foreground plants can be mowed like this without issues.
Cutting sod from dense thickets also is a viable method.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Small update time...Down to one 50% water change a week now, dosing 7 pumps of tropica specialised and 5 of premium on alternate days. I'm dosing a little more fe via seachem twice a week. Things are growing well, it's getting everything to grow at the same time to make it look good, if you get what I mean, With the different growth rate of certain plants. 

Here's a couple of pics anyways...

How it started

image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Now, 2 months on



 

In situ shot


----------



## tim

Love the different textures and colours of all those stems, admiration for your hard work, I have a few stems in the back of my 90cm and not getting them to grow at the same pace really does my head in  hats off to you Ian looks superb.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Thank you Tim! I'm looking forward to my next one! Lol


----------



## plantbrain

I like those lights. George has a pair.


----------



## Ady34

I <3 the insitu shot Ian  seriously though mate, that's some transformation, I can't believe its only 2 months old! It looks lush and has great impact within the room.
Marsilea is crazy, you have all that low foreground growth, an all of a sudden it starts randomly shooting up 15cm + leaves wherever it fancies :/
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Gary Nelson

It looks great Ian, fantastic growth comparing the first pic! Are you running the light on full power now?


----------



## aliclarke86

Pretty sure its been on full the whole time 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## Ian Holdich

plantbrain said:


> I like those lights. George has a pair.



Not many people actually like the lighting...they are great though, you need to try em out Tom!



Ady34 said:


> I <3 the insitu shot Ian  seriously though mate, that's some transformation, I can't believe its only 2 months old! It looks lush and has great impact within the room.
> Marsilea is crazy, you have all that low foreground growth, an all of a sudden it starts randomly shooting up 15cm + leaves wherever it fancies :/
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Thank you Ady, I'm still not really into the stem thing anymore....lol. The marsilea has already started the random high bits! 



Gary Nelson said:


> It looks great Ian, fantastic growth comparing the first pic! Are you running the light on full power now?



Cheers G, the lighting has always been on full power, as it was for the previous scape. With regular maintainence there shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## danmullan

Looks good mate. Can't imagine a tank with no hardscape materials. It takes skill to shape the plants like you have to create depth and an interesting landscape to look at. No interesting natural structures to draw the eye.

Obviously you're enjoying this tank, and doing a good job. But do you miss hardscape?


----------



## plantbrain

We'd happily give them a try in the USA if there's an importer. They look sharp. 

A well done tank without hardscaping is not an easy task.

Cut cut cut, trim trim trim.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Sorry guys missed these replies. 

@ dan, yes I'm really missing hardscape in a tank. Really missing it! 

@ Tom, I'm sure you could sort out TMC to send you some out?


Here's a couple from tonight, it's nearly ready for the final pics. Excuse the dirty Lily's, pics are taken from some different angles


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Looks great Ian, can understand why you are missing the hardscape... seems to lack structure and some interest without.
New scape next week then mate.

See ya sunday.


----------



## flygja

I just watched this video on Youtube of a stunning Dutch tank. Notice how some plants are arranged in streets like Tom Barr's tank while others are shaped into beautiful bushes. That's how to get over hardscape withdrawl syndrome.

Note, the camera he uses has weird autofocus behaviour and results in blinking in and out of focus. If you start feeling sick, better stop the video!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Last trim tomorrow and then final pics, then it's bye bye stems for a while!


----------



## Pedro Rosa

Great Jungle. How many trims have you done?


----------



## George Farmer

plantbrain said:


> We'd happily give them a try in the USA if there's an importer. They look sharp.


GroBeam 1500 Ultima ND LED | Green Leaf Aquariums


----------



## GHNelson

Love it ....all
Nice one...Ian.
Love the pictures.
hoggie


----------



## Ian Holdich

pmgsr said:


> Great Jungle. How many trims have you done?



Cheers pmgsr, it's had around 10 trims. Then one last one today, then final pics.



hogan53 said:


> Love it ....all
> Nice one...Ian.
> Love the pictures.
> hoggie



Thank you hoggie, can't wait to get my new hardscape in the tank!


----------



## foxfish

I like the root on the left, quite Hobbit looking but if it were mine, the bonsai man inside of me would have to drill out the centre & plant a sapling tree or shrub through the root!


----------



## Ian Holdich

I may end up just using one and going for the tree style scape, using moss. We used quite a lot of Cladophora at the big tank in new Malden. I might use a bit of that. It looked great all spread out.


----------



## abloomer

Love the tank, I like the densely planted look, would look even better with some wood poking through!!

Looking forward to the next scape!


----------



## Alastair

Looks lush mate. Watching to see what you do with those two stumps theyre great. Kind of remind me of the whopper I had in my old juwel tank.  
Looking forward to seeing you at stockport too at weekend 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GHNelson

Hi Ian
Can you give me some information on the light unit.....is the unit a TMC.
Are there any issues using it?
Can it be dimmed?
Is the mountings white or grey in colour.




Cheers
hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison

The roots are a nice find...I keep looking!


----------



## Ian Holdich

hogan53 said:


> Hi Ian
> Can you give me some information on the light unit.....is the unit a TMC.
> Are there any issues using it?
> Can it be dimmed?
> Is the mountings white or grey in colour.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> hoggie



Hi mate, the unit is a TMC 1500 ultima, there isn't any issues for me, as I use it on 100% light output. If you're using it any lower you may get a little high pitch noise as its ramping up and down. So, yes it can be dimmed. 

The mounts are the mountaray brackets in white to match the cabinet. You can get colbolt grey in the mountaray bracket.


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## GHNelson

Cheers Ian
Do you need a controller to dim the light?
May purchase one.....soon.
hoggie


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## aliclarke86

Yeah controller comes at about £80 and will control only the one tile, I am yet to get a controller I'm happy just running half the LEDs 

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## GHNelson

Cheers Ali.


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## Ian Holdich

Well, it's the end of yet another aquascape. I say I didn't enjoy this scape much, but I actually did...i have leant a great deal while looking after this one. I still haven't mastered to get the intense red in macaranda. The tank itself was a breeze from start up and I credit the plants for that one, and the high plant mass. The 1-2 grow range is awesome! It has also lasted a lot longer than I thought it would, it could go on longer, but I have some wood calling out to be wet! 

The end


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr

Once again, thanks to everyone that commented and looked through this journal, it's nice to get some positive encouragement.


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## George Farmer

Well done mate.  For me this is what aquascaping is all about.  Trying out new stuff, learning from it, and implementing what you've learnt for future aquascapes. 

Looking forward to seeing what you do next with that lovely wood you have...


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## Ian Holdich

George Farmer said:


> Well done mate.  For me this is what aquascaping is all about.  Trying out new stuff, learning from it, and implementing what you've learnt for future aquascapes.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what you do next with that lovely wood you have...



Cheers mate, yes that wood, did you ever see it? Lol!

Really excited about the next one...I love getting that feeling.


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## Alastair

Another stunning scape from you to add to your ever growing portfolio mate.  
Always a shame to see you have to take them down but on the upside youll be chucking together another equally as eye catching scape soon which im looking forward to following


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## Brian Murphy

Well done Ian, and a great education on the 1-2 grow range and their potential.  It looked a great learning curve and something we all have to do at some point to educate ourselves.  Look forward to the next scape


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## aliclarke86

An experience I'm sure but (I'm sure everyone else also wants to know) what's next?? I saw your wood but how long until you start up??

Ali

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## Ian Holdich

Alastair said:


> Another stunning scape from you to add to your ever growing portfolio mate.
> Always a shame to see you have to take them down but on the upside youll be chucking together another equally as eye catching scape soon which im looking forward to following



Thanks Alastair, means a lot mate, I have already started work on the other one, plants are out tonight and the tank is cleaned out. 



Brian Murphy said:


> Well done Ian, and a great education on the 1-2 grow range and their potential.  It looked a great learning curve and something we all have to do at some point to educate ourselves.  Look forward to the next scape



Thanks Brian, I thinks it's good to have a bash at something that's completely out of your comfort zone, I'm glad I have done it.



aliclarke86 said:


> An experience I'm sure but (I'm sure everyone else also wants to know) what's next?? I saw your wood but how long until you start up??
> 
> Ali
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4



Cheers Ali, I will be adding the hardscape tomorrow and plants are coming Friday, so should be all sorted by Friday night. I have planned the scape out on paper, and it's going to be something a little different for me again. Can't wait to get cracking! (Not literally!)


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## Claire

Hey Ian! Somehow managed to miss nearly this whole scape lol. This is what university is doing to me...
Anyways, take great pride in your achievement as it looked great. I love the bonsai - I always think it looks fake. Amazing plant.
And your p. erectus took off in the end. Mine never did well for whatever reason so I gave up 
The wood looks brilliant - looking forward to your next scape!!

And now I'm away to wallow in my pit of BBA... Buggeration.


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## Ian Holdich

Just to close this thread, here's the video done for this scape. Enjoy...

Please watch in hd.


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## Iain Sutherland

Click airplay to TV.. Awesome!


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## Alastair

Ian Holdich said:


> Just to close this thread, here's the video done for this scape. Enjoy...
> 
> Please watch in hd.



Oooo ian you sly devil you. Kept that beauty quiet. Very very nice pal


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## Ian Holdich

Iain Sutherland said:


> Click airplay to TV.. Awesome!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I must admit, it looks awesome in hd on a tv (if I do say so myself lol), thanks mate! 

And Al, this is one reasons I didn't do any vid throughout the journal. It's nice to see it finished off.


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## Pedro Rosa

Great video Ian.
Great plants


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## aliclarke86

1.35 cat gets involved . Is this not your tmc sig aquarium? 60 x 45 x 45?

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## Ian Holdich

pmgsr said:


> Great video Ian.
> Great plants




Cheers pmgsr! 



aliclarke86 said:


> 1.35 cat gets involved . Is this not your tmc sig aquarium? 60 x 45 x 45?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk



And yes, it's my dog that walks past lol. Yes it is my signature, they've got the litres wrong at the end.


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## Deano3

great video ian lovely healthy plants and as said great in HD thanks for sharing

Dean


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## Ady34

luvly jubly!
I rely on strong hardscapes to make a scape, you don't need one….great plant growing and positioning 
I know it wasn't one of your favourite scapes, but it must be nice to look back on the video and final images and see how vibrant it was, a beauty in its own right.


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## Ian Holdich

Deano3 said:


> great video ian lovely healthy plants and as said great in HD thanks for sharing
> 
> Dean



Thanks Dean! 



Ady34 said:


> luvly jubly!
> I rely on strong hardscapes to make a scape, you don't need one….great plant growing and positioning
> I know it wasn't one of your favourite scapes, but it must be nice to look back on the video and final images and see how vibrant it was, a beauty in its own right.



It's always good to look back on scapes. Some I look at and really miss...this isn't one of them! Lol

It was a good learning curve in stem plants though.


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## Alastair

Ian Holdich said:


> I must admit, it looks awesome in hd on a tv (if I do say so myself lol), thanks mate!
> 
> And Al, this is one reasons I didn't do any vid throughout the journal. It's nice to see it finished off.



Certainly is pal. Really pro like mate. Just did the airplay on my tele


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## Ian Holdich

Psssst, what is this airplay thing? Do you need a smart tv?


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## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Psssst, what is this airplay thing? Do you need a smart tv?


just need apple.tv ian, then press the button on your iphone for the movie to transfer straight to tv.  Its awesome.... if you have the other apple products of course.
I lost track of time watching a 60min video of someones reef tank the other day....


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## Alastair

Ian Holdich said:


> Psssst, what is this airplay thing? Do you need a smart tv?



Yes pal. When I play a vid etc from youtube I get a little icon pop up at the top..... press that and voila full hd beauty.





Not sure how it works with iPhone but think its the same


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## Ian Holdich

Mmmmm must check this out! I can just see it now...middle of Corrie and 'boom' aquariums!


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## foxfish

Yeah apple TV means Netflix too (£6 a month though) air play is fantastic.


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## Alastair

Ian Holdich said:


> Mmmmm must check this out! I can just see it now...middle of Corrie and 'boom' aquariums!


Doesnt have to be an apple tele though.  Mines an lg smart.


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## aliclarke86

I just have a PC as my TV........ Works just the same 

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## LondonDragon

Great video Ian  congrats on a great tank, who needs hardscape anyway!?!?!


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## edgarseamonkey

Hello,  what kind of controller do you have for your light set up ?


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## aliclarke86

edgarseamonkey said:


> Hello,  what kind of controller do you have for your light set up ?


Ian is not around much at the most mate. He didn't use one though.. Just 100%....baffeling. I farmed algae that way!

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## edgarseamonkey

Wow !  No controller what so ever ?   I am putting up a tank with the tmc grobeam 1500 ultima but I don't have a controller.  They told me I must get one before starting it.  So I guess I can do it with out ?    What do you think ?


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## aliclarke86

Yeah I have one with no controller. You can turn off half the LEDs you just don't have as much control (lol) I'm running it on 50% over a lowtech affair at the moment 






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## edgarseamonkey

How do I do the  50 %  w/out controller.   By the way that looks pretty nice.  I love the bracket that's holding the light.  How much was it ?


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## aliclarke86

There are 2 channels in the line (look like laptop power connectors) that can be disconnected seperatly leaving the outer or inner LEDs on. The bracket is 2 tmc mountaray brackets with MMS rail connecting them.

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## aliclarke86

A single bracket is about 25 quid but I bought the whole lot as a display model

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## edgarseamonkey

Thanks for the vital inf.  [DOUBLEPOST=1406061195][/DOUBLEPOST]I think I'm going  full blast with the grobeam 1500 on a 60p.  Do you think I'll have problems like killing the new plants, etc ?


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## Alastair

edgarseamonkey said:


> Thanks for the vital inf.  [DOUBLEPOST=1406061195][/DOUBLEPOST]I think I'm going  full blast with the grobeam 1500 on a 60p.  Do you think I'll have problems like killing the new plants, etc ?



I'd not have it on full power until your tank is established and you have all the other factors spot on. Flow co2 fertiliser etc. Build up gradually. Start off with just one input of leds on as Ali is doing. Even better just invest in a small controller.


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## edgarseamonkey

Cool thanks will do.  Until the tank matures without live stock I don't have to use the heater right ?   Another question what do you recommend for filtration media ? And how do you run the filter to build bacteria ?


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## ADA

How did I miss this scape, amazing! Might give 1-2 grow a go now!


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## aliclarke86

Edgar, do you have any other tanks? I usually just steal some media from an established filter. Also media choice is personal preference and I usually go with a minimal aprouch of just a small amount of biomedia and a course sponge. I'm not bothered too much by water quality as long as I am getting good flow. If you need sparkling water purigen is a good way to go! 

Like Al pointed out just stick with half power until you get the kinks worked out and yes avoid any fauna until you have co2 and flow correct. This gives you the chance to mess with the carbon levels without any ill effects on your live stock. 

If you don't have a mature filter then you can help the cycle off with using a substrate that will leach ammonia for a couple weeks like ADA soils.

Ian is a very skilled scaper so he knows his tanks well and can deal with the high light.

Just remember...more light means more co2 and ferts

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## edgarseamonkey

No I don't have a ny other tanks[DOUBLEPOST=1406213831][/DOUBLEPOST]Good morning, Ali..... I am setting up a 60p, 17 gallons tank... I have a 5 pound tank with CO2 regulator with AQUATEK 3-in-1 Diffuser with Bubble Counter and Check Valve. How much oxygen do I need to diffuse in the tank ?[DOUBLEPOST=1406213866][/DOUBLEPOST]How do I keep track of the CO2 and how much is need it ?


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## aliclarke86

Well if you are starting with no fish whatsoever you can pump it in as fast as you can. 

You would be best off getting a drop checker and maybe a pH pen. This will only give you a rough guide as to how much your pumping in though by measuring the change in pH the co2 will cause. 

A guid used quit often is to aim for a 1 point pH drop before your lights come on and try to maintain this throughout the photo period.

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## Ian Holdich

I was what I'd call lucky with this scape. It didn't get any algae, but the plant mass was so high, I'm not sure it would've stood a chance anyway. I did use 100% pure ro water also, with I think may of made a different, that alone with lean dosing and the soil made it perfect growing conditions.
Glad you enjoyed it!


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## Robert H. Tavera

I enjoy it too, realy different.


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## Ian Holdich

Nearly two years ago...time for a new tank I reckon.


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## DrRob

New tank or new scape?


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## Ryan Thang To

Ian Holdich said:


> Nearly two years ago...time for a new tank I reckon.


Hey hey. Nice to see you again lan. I still got your tank in the garage


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## Iain Sutherland

Ian Holdich said:


> Nearly two years ago...time for a new tank I reckon.


get in sunshine!! knew you'd miss me too much!!


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## Jaap

Hello Ian. A quick question regarding the TMC 1500 tile. I have this tile 50cm from the substrate and trying to grow monte carlo. Is 45% for 7 hours to little you reckon?

Thanks



Ian Holdich said:


> Nearly two years ago...time for a new tank I reckon.


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## Ian Holdich

Jaap said:


> Hello Ian. A quick question regarding the TMC 1500 tile. I have this tile 50cm from the substrate and trying to grow monte carlo. Is 45% for 7 hours to little you reckon?
> 
> Thanks



Hi mate, sorry for the late reply, I always used my tile at 100%, so really can't say if it's too low, but Imo it probably is a little low.


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## Animallover

Hi,
I know this thread is very old now but some great content here! I was just wondering the length and width roughly of this tank as I am looking to have a go at this same setup as you. Thanks!


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