# 3rd Time Lucky 45p



## Deano3 (25 Oct 2019)

Hi everyone, i have been a member here for a long time however due to lack of time with 2 kids etc i wasnt around and got rid of all my aquarium gear plus the fact i never manged to get the plants growing sufficiently. 

I started with a 60f then went to a 60p.

I am now determind to make it work so after a few years away i have been lingering and wanting a tank so i recently purchased a tank from the for sale section from gary nelson and a great price, it was also great meeting gary and getting his advice, the tank is a very nice aquarium gardens optiwhite 45p.

I have since build a stand for it and i am having in my living room instead of kitchen were i had a lot of natural light going into the aquarium.

Equipment will be

AG optiwhite 45p
Twinstar 450e
Oase filtosmart thermo 100w
FE co2 setup with Aquario neo diffuser
Twinstar

I will link my cabinet build below just hope will be ok with the non oil based paint and i will try my best not to get wet.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=58571&share_fid=58521&share_type=t

I also have been buying the rest of the things i need bar the plants as i am away next week so wait till i get back think i may have orderd to many rocks but better to have to much i suppose, i am still unsure weather to so a triangle composition with sand in the front and plants on the rocks etc or soil the whole tank and do a carpet etc. Cant make my mind up.

Anyway here is a few pics so far and hopefully this is 3rd time luck , i will make it work and keep you updated.



Thanks dean








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## CooKieS (25 Oct 2019)

Sole great looking stones for sure!


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## Zeus. (25 Oct 2019)

Specs look good, take your time doing your hardscspe it will pay off long term.

Keep us posted


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## alto (25 Oct 2019)

Well done 


I vote for soil everywhere 
And later you can add sand where you like (or at the start  )


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2019)

Had a play with layouts, hard in a small tank but tried to go for triangle composition as gets viewed from the left side just worried will be enough planting room but using plants on the rocks and moss and stems at the back hopefully be ok, also will need to add finishing touches like smaller rocks and gravel on sand etc .

Want to use all easy plants like ferns and anubis and swords etc and mosses.

Any opinions welcome.

Do you think hardscape is too small and low down ?

Thanks dean











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## alto (25 Oct 2019)

I like the hardscape but would add more soil! 
(as Josh Sims mentions in the video, even under sand/stones the soil contributes to the plant health (re slow steady release of available nutrients etc))

With a few cm soil under the stone, you’ll get more height, and you can jam MC, grasses etc between rocks and expect good growth

If you increase the stacking and angles of the stones, this will also give you more open planting space and more height 

(I’m so jealous of that wood )


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## alto (25 Oct 2019)

Is that the Twinstar E? Or S?
seems to have a lot of colour LEDs


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2019)

alto said:


> I like the hardscape but would add more soil!
> (as Josh Sims mentions in the video, even under sand/stones the soil contributes to the plant health (re slow steady release of available nutrients etc))
> 
> With a few cm soil under the stone, you’ll get more height, and you can jam MC, grasses etc between rocks and expect good growth
> ...


Thats for the advice alto and i will do that, the wife likes the layout,  looks better in person if i am honest and i have added soil under the rocks bit can add more, once sand in and few finishing touches should look good.

Wish had more manzi i had a box full before 

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2019)

alto said:


> Is that the Twinstar E? Or S?
> seems to have a lot of colour LEDs


Twinstar 450E

Dean

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## alto (25 Oct 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Wish had more manzi i had a box full before


When I saw you were selling off all your wood etc before, I thought Nooooooooooo 

Follow Filipe Oliveira advice and plant everything, adding sand last - this obviously keeps any dropped soil bits off the sand but also allows you to make some last minute scape changes much more easily


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## Deano3 (25 Oct 2019)

alto said:


> When I saw you were selling off all your wood etc before, I thought Nooooooooooo
> 
> Follow Filipe Oliveira advice and plant everything, adding sand last - this obviously keeps any dropped soil bits off the sand but also allows you to make some last minute scape changes much more easily


I know that was my bad i was sick of failing and thought thats it never again and also lack of time but kids at school now.

Away this week but be ordering plants when back to plant on my next 4 days off.

Will never sell everything again i will always keep hardscape, maybe i will buy some manzi wood from tom bar at some point. I remember last time there was a group buy and thats how ended up with mine.

Thanks again alto

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## Deano3 (26 Oct 2019)

Had a little play and tried adding bit more height and removed stone from middle of soil in order to have more planting space only quickly done it in 5 mins i had spare today as getting stuff ready for holiday  defently going with triangle as really liked the scape i had last night when was looking at it. Added a stone under the main stone facing the front left corner for height.

What you think, ps sorry about bad pictures 

Thanks dean













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## CooKieS (26 Oct 2019)

Hi.

I like the stone work but the Wood feels an bit flat,  could you try to put it UP like the branches of a tree?


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## Deano3 (30 Oct 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Hi.
> 
> I like the stone work but the Wood feels an bit flat,  could you try to put it UP like the branches of a tree?


Thanks for the input, i am currenetly away i will have a play with it friday, what do you think mate make the wood work face upwards as plan was for it to follow the rock down the slope ? But i could try making it face upwards.

Also any help with easy plants would be brilliant, i want to plant heavy and plant majority easy plants to give me best chance possible.
The list of plants i was thinking was 

Cryptocryne wendtii green 
Anubias 
Bucephalandra 
Hygrophila maybe ?
Repens
Java fern 
Mini hair grass
Moss or some sort, easiest possible 

I was planning to use all tissue culture.tropica 1 2 grow if possible.

Any help on other plants or if these should do would be brilliant, i will plants backgroud heavy the anubias and bucephlandra in cracks in rocks etc and moss on wood and rocks, also any help with quantity for the 45p as dont have a idea how much to go for.

Thanks again for the comments and input.
Dean





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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (31 Oct 2019)

Your plant selection looks great. Also consider some floating plants at set up to help limit light and deal with any excess nutrients that may lead to algae, especially if you are going all 1-2 grow as the overall plant mass will be low initially however densely you plant.  Your probably going to want to plant a 1-2 grow cup over aproximately the area of your hand (though denser the better as above -many recomend just the palm of the hand) as a guide for how many cups you need to purchase.


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## Niall (31 Oct 2019)

If you haven't gotten your filter yet I would up it to the biomaster thermo 250. The filtosmart 100 is rated 600lph but realistically it's not. I started with a 500lph on my 55l 3 months ago and it defenitly wasn't up to the job also there was no room in the canister for puragen or anything else I wanted to put in it. I got the biomaster thermo 250 a week ago and what a difference my water is crystal clear. Also cleaning the biomasters is a doddle compared to the filtosmart, thrust me you won't regret it.


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## Deano3 (31 Oct 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Your plant selection looks great. Also consider some floating plants at set up to help limit light and deal with any excess nutrients that may lead to algae, especially if you are going all 1-2 grow as the overall plant mass will be low initially however densely you plant.  Your probably going to want to plant a 1-2 grow cup over aproximately the area of your hand (though denser the better as above -many recomend just the palm of the hand) as a guide for how many cups you need to purchase.


Thanks for that, i am unsure what percent to put my light on at start up, also i will be planting the anubias and the bucephalandra in beetween the rock cracks and not into the soil is that correct also no plants in the sand.

What floating plants you recomend ?

Also i already have the filter but if not up to the job i could recommend but its only a small tank so hopefully will do the job.

Thanks dean

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## CooKieS (31 Oct 2019)

Hi,

Your Wood would suit better in upper position  than down on the rocks to me. You could Always try and see what works the best for you 

As.for. thé plants, I would add fast stems in the back like hemianthus micranthemoides, rotala sp...

Buces and anubias should be ok between the rocks , should not be planted

In the sand near thé rocks you could add marsilea crenata and/or eleocharis mini, those grow nicely in the Sand and add beautiful détails


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## Deano3 (31 Oct 2019)

Thats great thanks and i will try the wood positions when back. Any idea on amound of plants ? I think that list is nice easy plants, what floating plants anyone recommend?

Thanks dean

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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (1 Nov 2019)

My go to is Limnobium laevigatum


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## CooKieS (1 Nov 2019)

I like salvinia natans, no invasive Roots like limnobium, smaller so better looking in nano tanks and easy to grow.

About the lightning, full power but only 6h daily at thé beginning, the twinstar E series aren't overpowered like the S séries,


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## alto (2 Nov 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Cryptocryne wendtii green
> Anubias
> Bucephalandra
> Hygrophila maybe ?
> ...



TC Bucephalandra can be quite sensitive and more prone to melt than emerse grown pots (and pots from a reputable aquarium nursery tend to be more stable than some sources which transplant plants from elsewhere into pots shortly before sale)
Sometimes Bucephalandra will (completely) melt in new setups so I’d add rare(ie expensive) Buce (or other plants) after tank is well established (3-6 months)

Java fern - as tank is small, choose a smaller variant

Moss - given your set up, choose any of the Tropica 1-2-Grow options (except T barbieri which quickly transitions to a lose amorphous blob unless rigorously controlled (and then any trimmed bits you’ve missed will take up residence e.v.e.r.y.w.h.e.r.e) - best management of this is grown on stones etc that can be easily removed for trimming) 
Unless you want instant moss carpet appearance, one pot goes along ways 
You can chop moss and jam bits into rock crevices, or sprinkle atop glue-on-wood (Jurijs mit JS style) or layer on wood, wrap with cotton etc line (recent Green Aqua Josh Sim aquarium scape video - the first shorter video, not the long workshop seminar one) ..... a very thin layer of moss that is strictly trimmed during the first weeks produces the moss result you will in ADA style scapes

S repens - read through the article on Tropica website, it’s not uncommon for emerse leaves to disappear slowly (or melt rapidly), just wait for new growth

Eleocharis acicularis 'mini' - this can be quite variable in growth (from slow to fast) so depending where you’re planting it, you could easily add 1-3 pots, unwrap the grass “mat” (as shown by Jurijs mit JS) and pinch into small sections and plant ~1cm apart 
Once planted, older growth may obviously yellow and slowly disappear, or plant may continue looking green and just fill, either way it will form a carpet  




What’s missing? 
The rapid growing stem plant - look at Tropica Auxilary plant list 
H siamensis 53B or H zosterfolia or B caroliniana etc

I really like H micrathemoides as a fast growing small leaf stem plant - in my soft tap water it’s a dependable “easy” plant, though I find the 1-2-Grow version much less dependable than the pot 

Rotala Vietnam H’ra is another small leaf stem plant that grows very easy in my soft water 

Number of pots - much depends on your goals ... I prefer fewer pots and more room for plants to fill in, others want a scape that looks instantly full


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## Deano3 (2 Nov 2019)

alto said:


> TC Bucephalandra can be quite sensitive and more prone to melt than emerse grown pots (and pots from a reputable aquarium nursery tend to be more stable than some sources which transplant plants from elsewhere into pots shortly before sale)
> Sometimes Bucephalandra will (completely) melt in new setups so I’d add rare(ie expensive) Buce (or other plants) after tank is well established (3-6 months)
> 
> Java fern - as tank is small, choose a smaller variant
> ...


Wow some great advice there thanks very much, i have head george tall about 53b so will have a look into that, today i will have a look and wright down all the plants and amounts.

I was planning to use sand infront of the rocks and dont want a huge carpet but could plant mini hairgrass in the sand in places and think will need a few small anubias to add plant mass on the rocks alsong with moss and stems at back then floating plants.

You think should work ok and sand will look good ? Also still need to break up some rock and pack in between the rocks so soil doesnt pour out onto the sand.

Thanks for all advise
Dean

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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (3 Nov 2019)

All sounds good to me


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## Deano3 (3 Nov 2019)

I am working through my plant list and i will list below i have a long lost so want the easiest and fastest growing plants.

I plan to have lights on 80-100% and co2 come on 2 hours before lights on and set at 1-2 bps, i will also be doing 1 squirt of tropica plant food daily.

Plants on my list are below but i would like to remove a few of these as would rather have more of the same plants so recomendations would be great.

Hemianthus mucranthemoides
Ratala sp
Bucephalandra (smallest ones ?)
Anubias (smallest ones ?)
Elecocharis mini
Cryptocryne wendtii green
Sp repens
Java fern ( smallest ones ?)
salvinia natans as floating plant
H siamensis 53b

I am still unsure on amounts but i dont have a huge space for panting so dont think will need loads, any help on smallest kinds of the plants would be great and also unsure about  what moss to go for ?

And lastly i want a shop i can order all the plants from at same time and hopefully all tropica 1-2 grow as be pest free etc.
Was thinking aquarium gardens

Thanks for all the help and advice so far
Dean


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## CooKieS (3 Nov 2019)

Hi there,

I would remove the s.repens which Can be tricky and too big for your tank.

I'll add marsilea crenata mixed to your eleocharis mini into the Sand, easy and nice looking in nano tank.

Anubias petite
Microsorum trident (beware, those grow BIG in 2-3 months, place it in the right corner)
Bucephalandra SP red or green are OK and not so Big
Moss spiky (dark green medium growth) or christmas (light green High growth)

One pot of each plant would be enough for your 45p

Cheers, waiting for the pics of the hardscape


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## Deano3 (3 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I would remove the s.repens which Can be tricky and too big for your tank.
> 
> ...


Yet again thanks for all that advice, i will remove the repens as you recomend and add the marsilea crenata and will order one pot of each from aquarium gardens once i finish the hardscape maybe this week.

Looking forwad to this one just hoping its a success and hopefull with your help it will be.

Thanks
Dean

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## Deano3 (6 Nov 2019)

Hopefully plants be here tomorro, i need to smash up some rock to wedge inbeetween the rocks etc so sibstrate doesnt come through and then plant,i will start with few peices of grass around rocks then do the stems.

i will put anubias and buce into the cracks in the rock and not plant the rhizomw.

But everything else will go in soil and put moss on the wood and rocks.

I will have to weight down the wood as not pre soaked then i will add sand last.also going to plant dry apart from odd spray.

I am thinking lights on for 5 hours day at 80 percent and usually co2 on 2 hours before lights and off 1 hour before lights off yes ?

I will dose 1 squirt of tropica a day or would that be too much?

Thanks dean



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## Deano3 (7 Nov 2019)

Another thing is in the first week when doing daily 50 percent water changes do you clean the glass and pipes or anything like that or litterally just remove half water and refill ? Then after a week give a more vigorous clean.

And do you just fill buckets to around correct temp then pour in then when aquarium full add the prime ?

I dont actually have a thermometer yet but dont want to see one in tank so will check occasionally and then remove.

Sorry for all questions just want it done right.

Dean

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## Jayefc1 (7 Nov 2019)

Personally i wipe every thing down with some kitchen roll try to get as much dirt out i can with each water change i do about 75% water in a new tank daily for the first week and the every other day for the next 2 weeks there will be a lot of organic waste in there and a 45p is harder IMO cause there is not as much room for error with it being smaller i wouldnt put the buce in either till tue tank has setteled very prone to melt in new tanks 
Cheers
Jay


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## CooKieS (7 Nov 2019)

I do 50% weekly on a New tank, with tropica soil, but non ferts until 1-2 months, just liquid carbon daily.


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## Deano3 (7 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> I do 50% weekly on a New tank, with tropica soil, but non ferts until 1-2 months, just liquid carbon daily.


I will do 50 percent daily for first week and give glass a wipe but not get into filter etc,  so would you advise no ferts at first ? And also have my co2 but would you put in liquid carbon aswel and just to the recomended dose.

I am very happy  with the hardscape, i have had to put rocks ontop of wood for now.

I added lots of smaller crushed rocks aswel. 

My only trouble was my intake wouldnt fit on right of tank so tomorro i am adding a smaller intake and will buy a eheim surface skimmer to the tank snd this will also add a bit of flow.added the buce as already purchased so have to. 

The co2 is at 1-2 bps and drop checker is still dark green not sure if film on bottom of it so will check but happy with the layout.

Thanks dean




























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## alto (8 Nov 2019)

As always  I’ll suggest trimming back your lovely moss clumps (bonus you can use the trim to start more moss )

Love the top down view 

(confirming your Microsorum is attached to rock or wood? Which variant is it?)


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## Deano3 (8 Nov 2019)

alto said:


> As always  I’ll suggest trimming back your lovely moss clumps (bonus you can use the trim to start more moss )
> 
> Love the top down view
> 
> (confirming your Microsorum is attached to rock or wood? Which variant is it?)


I will do that with the moss  only plants i attatched to wood and rocks is anubias and buce and moss everything else is soil.

How whould you advise doing water changes i am juat going ti change 50 percent water then clean glass whilst doing daily then at end of week i will scrub the Rocks etc. And would you not dose whilst in first weeks ?

Also want to change pipes around today as dont like the side there on.

Also i am already thinking about a new filter maybe the oase 250 as this filter is a mess on trying to get ot filled after a water change however i did move pipes round so more than likely be easier tomorro. But the 250 has the pre filter and primer.


Bit concerned as my drop checker dark after 2 hours, i have diffuser in middle infront of the outflow any recomendations ? Only have lights on 30 percent for now u till i can sort it.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (10 Nov 2019)

Currently doing 70 percent water change and cleaning the glass and wafting around the plants but seeing sone deficiencys in plants  ordered a oase thermo 250 and inline diffuser so hopefully that improves the flow etc. 

Yellowing on surface plants and pulled a few leaves from bucephalandra.

Pics below, i am dosing tropica every other day 1 squirt.





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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2019)

Little update.

I am now back at work so did a quick water change and glass clean after work, should i be doing much else ?

I am dosing tropica every other day and when i am off friday i will fit the oase 250 and inline diffuser.

Lights are still on 30 percent from 12-5 but i am seeing some plant deficiencys any ideas ? Lights too low maybe ? Having bba and few black spots on leaves but seeing no growth like last time i had my 60p.

I am going to siphon all the sand out as looks a mess and put jist tropica soil in and plant more anubias and hair grass and also get rid of floating plants as yellowing

Any help would be amazing.







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## CooKieS (12 Nov 2019)

DONT PANIC! 

Your plants just need time to adapt, it can't be any deficiency problem at this early stage.

Just give them light (80-100% is OK but no more than 6 hours daily)
CO2 needs to be perfect, light green drop checker when light is ON 
Ferts aren't needed yet as you got plant soil, just dose K, and eventually liquid carbon to kill algae spores in the water column. 

Continue the weekly WC and wait at least 2-3 weeks to see how the new growth look.


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## Deano3 (12 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> DONT PANIC!
> 
> Your plants just need time to adapt, it can't be any deficiency problem at this early stage.
> 
> ...


 i know i am not very patient at all. I am off for 4 days from friday so will get new filter on and co2 sorted hopefully and plant some more hair grass and rano the lights up to 80 percent for 6 hours.

Thanks for the encouragement mate i need  it and appreciate it .

I will keep lights at 30 percent for next 2 days while working but will do water cha ge after work.

I will try do a more thorough clean of tank tomorro by cleaning the rocks etc, also thinkong of taking the wood out for easier access and once stems grow will look good. But no rush.

Thanks dean



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## Jayefc1 (12 Nov 2019)

Just be patient the yellowing of leaves is most lightly to.be the transission stage whack your co2 up get the drop checker yellow the plants are going from 400ppm to 30ppm so.whilst you have no live stock give them as much co2 as you can keep.up the water changes and cleaning its so early in the cycle dont panick just try one thing at a time dont change everything you wont know whats working and whats not 
Cheers
Jay


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## alto (13 Nov 2019)

Deano3 said:


> am going to siphon all the sand out as looks a mess and put jist tropica soil in and plant more anubias and hair grass and also get rid of floating plants as yellowing


I’ve no patience with sand so always end up ditching it 
BUT
you did a nice job with your scape, so if you like the sand area, just be patient

Give the plants (and aquarium “cycle”) time to establish, you can easily siphon out “ugly” sand and replace it (that’s the trick of those amazing online scapes ) occasionally - depending on specific tank, sometimes sand will look “clean” for ages (once tank is established)

I’m not a fan of limited light intensity when starting up new scapes - most plants comes from relatively high light emerse or submerse nursery conditions - so I just make sure CO2 is available, ramp light over 15-30min, then run LED at 75-100% (depending on light and aquarium dimensions) for ~4-5 hours, ramp down etc 

(I’ve a kitchen counter 30C with light ~10h, half of that at low light levels just so I can enjoy the tank through the evening, CO2 is a Tropica Nano kit that runs maybe 1 bubble per 2 sec, 24/7 (it’s just easier), Eheim mini up filter, plants include an MC carpet, Eriocaulon cinereum, H verticillata, Tropica AS Powder and at 3months I’ve yet to add any fertilizers ... growth is slow, steady, no visible algae, though I’m seeing some recent leaf breakdown so should be fertilizing, tap water is soft 
This method isn’t typical of my other tanks (except for the lazy aquarist aspect) ... I suppose I’m just mentioning it here as an example of finding what works for you/your tank
No drop checker so I’ve no idea what the CO2 level might be, filter is set to maintain some surface ripple)

As others mention, any rapid onset yellowing/melting of plants, is really about the plants you received, rather than your care (unless you’re running the tank at 28*C and more) - and is a normal part of transitioning to emerse growth
What you do want to see, is new leaf growth 

You mention removing the wood for access - not sure why you’re considering this, it’s easy to siphon around hardscape by using a small tube (I’ve a Python Siphon Mini - though the hose dimension is maybe 1cm not the 1inch mentioned in the link), when I refill the tank, I run the water through an Eheim filter inlet to disperse the spray and then direct it towards any areas I can’t otherwise reach ... if a load of debris comes up, then I’ll redrain/refill tank again (with a daily water change this is unlikely but as I’m _slightly_ lazy it’s more likely been a week - or weekS )

If you don’t have any yet, pick up some Clithon corona snails (Jurijs mit JS, Green Aqua both mention these small Nerite type snails) as they are excellent clean up crew


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## alto (13 Nov 2019)

Just a confirmation that your Microsorum is not planted into the soil?
- the rhizome should have good flow around it


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## Deano3 (13 Nov 2019)

alto said:


> Just a confirmation that your Microsorum is not planted into the soil?
> - the rhizome should have good flow around it


Wow thanks for all that info mate and advice,  i think i have planted it actually  i only didnt plant the buce and anubias, k will take it out today and find somewere for it, even though i wanted rear right of tank long stems but will have to be done.

Cheers for advice
And i will ramp lights up once co2 and that on sorted.

Thanks dean

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## Jayefc1 (13 Nov 2019)

I think you need some stems in any case they really help to stablise the tank 
If you want the fern at the back there is a trick of gluing the rizome to a rock and then dripping it where you want it placed 
Cheers
Jay


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## alto (14 Nov 2019)

Deano3 said:


> even though i wanted rear right of tank long stems but will have to be don


Just tie it to small stone (or wood etc) and place it back in that corner 

one of my favourite Jurijs mit JS videos



If it’s Microsorum pteropus/ M p ‘Narrow’ - both are pretty sturdy

(adding a suction cup to the stone will allow you to easily move the Microsorum about if you like)


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## Janci (14 Nov 2019)

alto said:


> As always  I’ll suggest trimming back your lovely moss clumps (bonus you can use the trim to start more moss )
> 
> Love the top down view
> 
> (confirming your Microsorum is attached to rock or wood? Which variant is it?)



Hi Alto, is there any specific reason to trim the moss at start up?


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## Kezzab (14 Nov 2019)

Janci said:


> Hi Alto, is there any specific reason to trim the moss at start up?


It encourages new, denser growth. Plaus gives you more moss to put somewhere else.


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## Deano3 (14 Nov 2019)

I glued it onto a stone thanks for that 

What temp do you all set tank at mine is curretly 26 and i am going to fot i line diffuser and larger filter tomorrow and give a good clean and remove the sand and plant more hair grass and maybe anubias if pets at home have it in.

Anyone have the twinstar light adjuster ? I have set it to come on at 12 and off at 17.00 but come down this morning and lights were on  and apparently not been on during day.

I have no1 12.00 set at 30 percent 
Then no2 17.00 set at 0 percent but must be doing soemthing wrong will have a good look tomorro. 

Thanks dean


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## Jayefc1 (14 Nov 2019)

22 for the co2 mate it dissolves best in the water at that temp 
Cheers 
Jay


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## Deano3 (14 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> 22 for the co2 mate it dissolves best in the water at that temp
> Cheers
> Jay


Ah i will turn mine down then thanks for that.

Dean

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## alto (14 Nov 2019)

Deano3 said:


> have no1 12.00 set at 30 percent
> Then no2 17.00 set at 0 percent



Draw a diagram (as shown in Jurijs mit JS video)
Both start and finish points must be 0% - else you’re asking light to do a slow ramp between your present 0% @ 17:00 and 30% @ 12:00

Your present light program should look more like this 
1 12:00 0%
2 12:30 30% 
3 17:30 30%
4 18:00 0%

Note the ONF Flat Nano + app works slightly differently, you really need to set up a (short time period) test program and watch what happens


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## Deano3 (15 Nov 2019)

Thanks alto i will look later and get a setup with ramp up and down over 6 hours a day at 75 pecent intensity. 

Well this mornong i fitted new filter and inline diffuser and removed all sand best i could, still need to adjust soil and add more hair grass, took longer than i thought and there isnt a mm in my cabinet to spare now  at high bps my drop checker is still dark green i am not sure if i need to purchase some more i case this drop checker solution is off in some way.

I will check for leaks again soon but my drop checker should be light green/yellow at the bps i am putting in.

Here are some pics.
Thanks dean







In certain lights looks green and the small drops of solution go yellow that are on the drop checker from when i poured solution in.


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## Deano3 (16 Nov 2019)

Quick update 

what a mess on removing sand as once added soil it i would have rather have had rocks higher but happier with it now added anubias and 2 pots of hair grass.

Ph as follows and i am going to order some drop checker solution as looks yellow in certain lights but very dark so hard to tell.







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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2019)

Got lights on 80 percent now and ordered some drop checker solution.

Temp at 22 degrees C

Should plants be adjusted after a week to underwater conditions ? I am sure plants were pearling yesterday by end of photo period. Set lights to following

30% - 12.00
50% - 12.30
80% - 13.00
50% - 18.00
30% - 18.30
0% - 19.00 there after.

Still not going to dose any ferts, i had some white looking algae on the wood so cleaned with toothbrush and now doing water change every other day.

Any other recomendations
Thanks dean

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## CooKieS (18 Nov 2019)

Please put that light at full blast,

0% - 12
100% - 12.30
100%- 18.30
0% - 19.00

You could dose liquid carbon and put some snails to help with diatoms if you Want to.

Cheers


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Please put that light at full blast,
> 
> 0% - 12
> 100% - 12.30
> ...


Ok i will up to 100 percent thanks mate and what snails would you recomend ? 

Is hano the timer on light controller as when on auto it adjusts itself

Still waiting for new drop checker solution as pumping a lot of co2 in currently so hopefully its the solution.

Thanks dean

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## CooKieS (18 Nov 2019)

I like Ramshorn snails, nerite and clithon (the last two don't breed in soft water but Can lay eggs on the hardscape).


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## Deano3 (18 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> I like Ramshorn snails, nerite and clithon (the last two don't breed in soft water but Can lay eggs on the hardscape).


Think i will wait a week or so and see if can add shrimp as always worried snails end up infesting my tank and laying eggs all over.

What shrimp as best for begginers and stay quite small any recomendations?

I will keep up water changes every other day and lights on 100 percent for 6 hours a day.

Thanks dean 

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## Deano3 (21 Nov 2019)

Tank still looking ok however i have been working, wife is off today to make sure lights and co2 on etc , put new solution in drop checker after watcher change and this morning its this colour with no co2 on is this normal ?

Thought would have been darker.

Thanks dean




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## Thumper (21 Nov 2019)

Thats fine probably.
It really depends how much CO2 can offgas while the lights are out. Main reasons for offgassing are surface agitation (skimming, Bubble glass) while a reason against it is skum on the surface.


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## Deano3 (21 Nov 2019)

Is it normal to have green drop chdcker after large water change and no co2 has been on all night then ?

Hopefully my drop chdcker changes today once co2 on and lights on as plants will be using more co2 photosynthesing

Thanks dean

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## Thumper (21 Nov 2019)

It really depends. If you did a 10% WC, sure it can be. If you did a 90% WC it shouldnt be.
How much water did you change? How long after did you make the pic?


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## alto (21 Nov 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Set lights to following
> 
> 30% - 12.00
> 50% - 12.30
> ...



You still want to set a 0% at 12:00 - if you’re wanting darkness overnight
(at present you’re still asking the controller to run some sort of ramp from 0% at 19:00 to 30% at 12:00, depending on the controller it may interpret this in different ways)


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## Deano3 (21 Nov 2019)

alto said:


> You still want to set a 0% at 12:00 - if you’re wanting darkness overnight
> (at present you’re still asking the controller to run some sort of ramp from 0% at 19:00 to 30% at 12:00, depending on the controller it may interpret this in different ways)


I have now done away with controller and just have lights on a times to come on at 12 till 18.00.

I did around 70 percent water change then pit new solution in drop checker around 9 last night its from co2 art then took that pichure this morning.

Its much lighter colour than my last bottle of solution hopefully light green / yellow at lights on today 

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (21 Nov 2019)

My drop checker was yellow today but i will check tomorrow what colour it is on lights on.

Should i remove leaves i snapped end off

Dean






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## Deano3 (24 Nov 2019)

Quick update, been doing water changes and cleaning the gladd and rocks but the wood is really annoying as cant get in to clean the tank.

I have debated stripping and replanting after a rescape as not entirely happy with this as was nice when had sand but then had to adjust to add soil but would be a lot of work and want plants to start growing then can rescape in future. I think looks to plain without the wood at the minute but i may cut the wood and try join together so can easily be removed and then put back in. I planted under the wood and wood pulls up plants etc when I remove so need to do something.

Plants are pearling so very happy as never ever had that and looks great. Havnt done a filter clean yet or a diffuser clean any idea when i should do this ?

Should i remove the stem were leaves are snapped and i am seeing some defficencys like patchy leaves .

Thanks dean











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## Deano3 (25 Nov 2019)

Had a bit or a change and added a rock to right hand side so easier for the wood to be placed and not squashing the plants so much happier and also trimmed the wood so much happier with it.

Removed snapped leaves as far down as i could, also not getting co2 to the rear right so putting on 3 hours early tomorro and also ordered jet lilly pipe and some more buce and bonsai.

Hope you like it.
Dean









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## dw1305 (25 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


>


Do the new leaves (on the _Rotala_) look a bit yellow and pale in real life as well as on the photo? 

If <"it does">? You may need to try and a different chelator for iron. 

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (25 Nov 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Do the new leaves (on the _Rotala_) look a bit yellow and pale in real life as well as on the photo?
> 
> If <"it does">? You may need to try and a different chelator for iron.
> 
> cheers Darrel


You think start dosing my tropica specialised ferts ? Yes they are pale in person.

What you think on the rest you think looks ok and must be good that plants are perling .

Like i say i have ordered a het flow for better flow to hopefully get to all corners of the tank.

Thanks dean

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## dw1305 (25 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> You think start dosing my tropica specialised ferts ?


You could give it a go and see what happens. 





Deano3 said:


> Yes they are pale in person.


It is likely to be an iron (Fe) deficiency, mainly because this causes yellowing of the new foliage. This happens because iron isn't mobile within the plant, so the plant can't move iron to the new leaves.

If you have hard water? iron deficiency is more likely, nearly all iron compounds are insoluble and and you need to use a chelator that still works at <"higher pH levels">. 

One thing to bear in mind is that you won't get an instant response from the plants if they are iron deficient, it is only new leaves, that grow after iron becomes available again, that will be green.

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (25 Nov 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, You could give it a go and see what happens. It is likely to be an iron (Fe) deficiency, mainly because this causes yellowing of the new foliage. This happens because iron isn't mobile within the plant, so the plant can't move iron to the new leaves.
> 
> If you have hard water? iron deficiency is more likely, nearly all iron compounds are insoluble and and you need to use a chelator that still works at <"higher pH levels">.
> 
> ...



Thanks darrel i will give a go at starting to dose my tropica specialised and see if new growth improves, also my water is hard i am pretty sure. Or i could try flourish iron ?

What exactly do you mean by chelator ? Something to bond the iron

Sorry if its a daft question

Thanks dean

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## dw1305 (26 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> i will give a go at starting to dose my tropica specialised and see if new growth improves


 Have a look at <"Slightly sad floating......"> for some details of what to look for as your plants perk up.





Deano3 said:


> Sorry if its a daft question


No, it isn't a daft question, it is all to do with

how soluble compounds are, and 
how easily ions form insoluble compounds, which will then precipitate out of solution.  
All plants, including terrestrial ones, can only take up nutrients as ions from solution.

The problem with iron (Fe) is that most of its compounds are insoluble and if you have an aerobic, calcareous solution (your tank water) all the ferric iron (Fe+++) ions will form insoluble compounds.  Have a look at <"Iron phosphate"> for some more details. 

Its different for other nutrients, the salts of some nutrients are always soluble. If you have a salt like potassium nitrate (KNO3), it is very soluble and you get a 1:1 ratio of potassium ions (K+) and  nitrate (NO3-) when it is dissolved in solution. 

Because all potassium and nitrate compounds are soluble, it doesn't matter what other ions are in solution, you will never get a potassium or nitrate containing compound precipitate out of solution.  





Deano3 said:


> What exactly do you mean by chelator ? Something to bond the iron


Yes, a chelator is a compound (usually an organic acid) which holds onto an iron ion (Fe+++). That Fe+++ ion only becomes available when the chelator is degraded. 





Deano3 said:


> Or i could try flourish iron ?


You could try, but it probably isn't going to work very well in hard water. Have a look for <"ferrous gluconate">, it talks a bit about "Flourish", pH and chelators.  Also have a look at the <"FeEDDHA">  thread for some of the chemistry. 

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (1 Dec 2019)

Cheers for all that darrel i had a quick read in work at dinner time, i have been dosing 1 squirt a day of tropica specialised and will see how it goes , getting some algae on wood as seen in pictures, i clean off when do water change but hate having to take wood out as seems to take ages to get back in same position.pics of algae below also dosing 6ml of liquid carbon daily.

Here is a quick update picture also added another bucephalandra and some more stems  growth is slower than i thought but i think looking good but still some deficiencys in plants on rear right hopefully the new lilly pipe will help once fitted. 

Also need to level the substrate at front of glass wish i just put substrate in first but i wanted sand origionally  not to worry.

Any comments welcome.
Dean











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## MJQMJQ (2 Dec 2019)

Its nice but the wood is kinda blocking the plants at the back you need a diff position for the wood I can only think of shifting it more to the back so yr shorter plants will be in front of the wood


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## Deano3 (2 Dec 2019)

I know what you mean its currently resting on the tocks once plants grow a bit i will put further back so cant see the ends of the wood.inlt trouble is i didnt have much planting space at rear right so dont want wood there but hopefully i can once plants grow a bit.

Also added a new lilly pipe today and flow is much better around the tank and getting movement at the rear right now.

Any idea on the algae and will shrimp get rid of this as thinking of adding some soon.

Thanks dean



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## MJQMJQ (3 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> I know what you mean its currently resting on the tocks once plants grow a bit i will put further back so cant see the ends of the wood.inlt trouble is i didnt have much planting space at rear right so dont want wood there but hopefully i can once plants grow a bit.
> 
> Also added a new lilly pipe today and flow is much better around the tank and getting movement at the rear right now.
> 
> ...


Shrimp generally only eat green algae unless theyre really hungry.Heard nerite snails at a rate of 1 per 10 gallon works too!Otherwise could consider otos they are small and peaceful.


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## Patrick Crowley (3 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Also added a new lilly pipe today and flow is much better around the tank and getting movement at the rear right now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk




Tank is coming on well Dean

Where are the new lily pipes from? I’m looking for something similar for my 45P.  But having trouble finding anything that is not too big.


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## Deano3 (3 Dec 2019)

Patrick Crowley said:


> Tank is coming on well Dean
> 
> Where are the new lily pipes from? I’m looking for something similar for my 45P.  But having trouble finding anything that is not too big.


Thanks patrick the lilly pipes are from aquarium gardens nano inlet and outlet blau ones they look great as i was in the same boat.

And thanks for that i may get some ottos soon think i will het shimp first how long you recomend waiting for cherries? And do nitrite snails lay eggs everywere ? If they didnt i may get snail aswel

Thanks dean

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## MJQMJQ (4 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Thanks patrick the lilly pipes are from aquarium gardens nano inlet and outlet blau ones they look great as i was in the same boat.
> 
> And thanks for that i may get some ottos soon think i will het shimp first how long you recomend waiting for cherries? And do nitrite snails lay eggs everywere ? If they didnt i may get snail aswel
> 
> ...


Female nerites will lay unsightly eggs.Could consider assassin snails.If yr ammonia and nitrite is zero time to plop in some shrimps


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## Deano3 (4 Dec 2019)

MJQMJQ said:


> Female nerites will lay unsightly eggs.Could consider assassin snails.If yr ammonia and nitrite is zero time to plop in some shrimps


Not sure what levels of ammonia etc are as no test kit i just planned on leaving tank for a while, back at work for 4 days now so will wait until next week bedore adding any shimp then will take a trip to dobbies and hopefully they have some decent shrimp.

How many you think to add at once ?

Also a few signs of algae but i havnt done a filter clean yet so will do one when off and continue water changes ever other day until then any ideas what algae it is ? I am hoping a clean up crew of ottos and shrimp will clean it up and a small shoul of tetras and that will be it i imagine.

Lastly the drop checker is always light green at lights on as i switch on 3.5 hours before lights on however the drop checker then seems to get lighter until nearly yellow by time co2 goes off wonder if i should try putting co2 on just 2.5 hours before to see of helps just hope isnt to dark green at lights on.  I will have a play next week.

Thanks dean











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## MJQMJQ (5 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Not sure what levels of ammonia etc are as no test kit i just planned on leaving tank for a while, back at work for 4 days now so will wait until next week bedore adding any shimp then will take a trip to dobbies and hopefully they have some decent shrimp.
> 
> How many you think to add at once ?
> 
> ...


Too much co2 then.Your wood has white fungus that the shrimps will like.If ure afraid of killing them 5-10.If not 20 would be good.Looks like the beginnings of hair or thread algae.


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## Deano3 (5 Dec 2019)

MJQMJQ said:


> Too much co2 then.Your wood has white fungus that the shrimps will like.If ure afraid of killing them 5-10.If not 20 would be good.Looks like the beginnings of hair or thread algae.


I will knock co2 down a tat when next off in 4 days then look at getting some shrimp in. Should the ottos and shrimp clean that algae up you think ?

Thanks for the help mate
Dean

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## MJQMJQ (5 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> I will knock co2 down a tat when next off in 4 days then look at getting some shrimp in. Should the ottos and shrimp clean that algae up you think ?
> 
> Thanks for the help mate
> Dean
> ...


Yep its green algae or manual removal.Yep ure welcome.


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## Deano3 (7 Dec 2019)

Already wanting to rescape  bit holding off until have fish and plants grown etc.

Getting green hair algae more now so hoping when shrimp and ottos in will help.

Tomorro going to do large clean and clean prefilter and lily pipes, do you clean pre filter sponges in sink under tap water ?

The rear plants still looking light even after adding squirt of tropica ever other day any idea how to get my iron levels up ?

Also any recomendations on how to keep moss tight onto the wood ? Keep finding bits all over tank

Thanks dean










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## Deano3 (9 Dec 2019)

Added 2 beautiful ottos  i went to dobbies and another 2 shops that i remember however none had any fish as 2 were shut and dobbies dont have aquariums anymore so ended up at pets at home just minutes away  after driving round for hour and a half, i should have checked. 

I will be asking if anyone has any shimp for sale next week i think.

Thanks and any questions above can be answered that would be great.

Dean





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## Deano3 (10 Dec 2019)

Unfortunately one of my.ottos died by getting sucked into the inlet and i didnt see untik tonight as was out today, so one left i might go and het 6 ammano shrimp tomorro but bit gutted.

Thanks dean

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## Siege (10 Dec 2019)

He probably died before he got there I’m afraid. 

Ottos are super fragile, whilst they do a good job at start up, it’s not really suited to them. A bunch of amanos and cherry shrimp will be good. (Beware amanos will jump in a newly established tank!)


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## Deano3 (10 Dec 2019)

Siege said:


> He probably died before he got there I’m afraid.
> 
> Ottos are super fragile, whilst they do a good job at start up, it’s not really suited to them. A bunch of amanos and cherry shrimp will be good. (Beware amanos will jump in a newly established tank!)


Weirdly enough one of the ottos seemed very weird by swimming around wildly and fast and seemed very wild. I still might tey to get 6 amanos tomorrow and hope they survive.

Thanks dean

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## JEK (10 Dec 2019)

Deano3 said:


> Weirdly enough one of the ottos seemed very weird by swimming around wildly and fast and seemed very wild. I still might tey to get 6 amanos tomorrow and hope they survive.
> 
> Thanks dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Otocinclus should be kept in groups so I would advice you to get some more of them.


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## CooKieS (10 Dec 2019)

Siege said:


> He probably died before he got there I’m afraid.
> 
> Ottos are super fragile, whilst they do a good job at start up, it’s not really suited to them. A bunch of amanos and cherry shrimp will be good. (Beware amanos will jump in a newly established tank!)



Ottos Can be super stupid too, recently found one (dead) stuck in the pals of my eheim compact 300...

But yeah, very sensitive when acclimating, once they'll pass the first month in the tank, they are generally super Hardy


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## Deano3 (11 Dec 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Ottos Can be super stupid too, recently found one (dead) stuck in the pals of my eheim compact 300...
> 
> But yeah, very sensitive when acclimating, once they'll pass the first month in the tank, they are generally super Hardy


Thanks for that, i have got him a friend today and seems a lot calmer and not franticly swimming around the tank and also added 4 shrimp it says on receipt yamoto shrimp however i asked for amano is there much difference ?

Hopefully i get no jumpers,  i am debating putting cling film over top with holes in until they settled, going to get some cherries or something next week maybe before any fish.

My flow seems very high even though i added some extra media since i cleaned the prefilter, i am haping no only need to clean the internal of filter ever 3-4 month you think thats sounds ok ? But is there anyway to turn down the flow at all on the oase line ?

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (17 Dec 2019)

Quick update, some pichures before water change and during.  The algae is still present its green and long strands you can see the bubbles very thin i siphoned it out best i can. I will keep dosing liquid carbon at the recommended dose and 1 squirt of tropica specialised















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## Deano3 (19 Dec 2019)

So picked up some stunning cherry shrimp from nick aka niton off this forum and they seem to be doing very well except a couple of tiny ones got sucked into the inlet first night but since ordered and inlet guard from ebay also have a amano jump that night .

Can i ask a question about stocking how many amanos you recomend as still quite a lot of green algae as you can see on the moss also lost another otto seem him inbetween rocks and noticed he was still there the next day so currently have 1 ottos and 3 amano and around 6 cherries.

I plan on going to get another otto and maybe 4 amano shimp before i get a shoul of fish. Does that sound ok and any help /recomendations on the green algae and light coloured leaves i am dosing tropica daily.

Help appreciated

Thanks dean



















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## Niton (19 Dec 2019)

@Deano3 I've found an aquarium stocking website calculator on line. http://www.aqadvisor.com/

Waste wise I'd imagine you're shrimp and otto are hardly making a dent in your filter capacity.


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## CooKieS (19 Dec 2019)

Very nice growth congrats !

For an 45P like yours, I would put 6 amano and 4 otos (they love to be in small groups).


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## Deano3 (19 Dec 2019)

Niton said:


> @Deano3 I've found an aquarium stocking website calculator on line. http://www.aqadvisor.com/
> 
> Waste wise I'd imagine you're shrimp and otto are hardly making a dent in your filter capacity.


Will have a look cheers mate

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## Deano3 (19 Dec 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Very nice growth congrats !
> 
> For an 45P like yours, I would put 6 amano and 4 otos (they love to be in small groups).



I struggle to see growth my carpet is very thick but think plants at rear taking a while to grow but soppose dont want to fast growing.

Would i still be able to have a shoul of 10 or so green tetras or neon tetras ,? Still unsure of what fish i want, i may go and get some more shrimp or ottos tomorro.

Any idea on pale leaves or green algae or you think once shimp in should clean it up

Thaks dean

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## alto (20 Dec 2019)

Try to physically remove as much of the green “stringy” algae as possible - try to “catch” the strings in a toothbrush or similar, use a narrow syphon hose (syphon to bucket so you can return any accidental shrimp to tank), gently brush through the hairgrass with a “pick” comb

If it’s in the moss, just trim the moss back to the wood etc (I think you mentioned moss pieces breaking free?) - if you cut off any significant lumps of moss, you can comb through to remove any algae, then sparingly glue/tie to wood etc

Jurij mit JS has a couple videos demonstrating moss glue techniques
For tying moss, ADA-japan has some video (there’s an excellent video for moss tying, followed by trimming of the moss tightly to the wood, somewhere, I’ve just never bookmarked it  )

Re your Otocinclus, find an alternate source - these fish are obviously unwell (sick to death )

Shrimp that inadvertently end up in the filter, generally manage just fine as long as the filter is running (good oxygen levels), just remember to check for them when you clean the filter

With more than a couple Oto’s in a 45P, you’ll need to supplement food
I just use snails in smaller tanks, while the larger Nerites are terrific (horrific) egg layers - and those little white egg “shells” are well and truly glued in place  - I’ve yet to see any egg debris from my Clithon corona snails (after 1-2 years)
I’ve also some “Batic” nerites that seem unlikely egg producers (they are a smaller Nerite and I’ve seen nothing of note after several months)

I no longer add Amano type shrimp as they can be relatively aggressive, quickly develop a strong preference for fish food, and grow relatively large ...


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## alto (20 Dec 2019)

This shrimp is well worth finding as it will consume most algaes, including young BBA
Despite appearing on farm lists as Caridina gracilirostris, it’s unlikely, it also tends to ship in as a fairly mixed group of shrimp 
(not the website I was looking for, but has good photos of the shrimp I’m referring to)

https://www.aquagreen.com.au/plant_data/Caridina_sp_Gulf1.html

Most wild type “tiger” shrimp are also very industrious (though much less commonly available in recent years)


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## Deano3 (20 Dec 2019)

alto said:


> Try to physically remove as much of the green “stringy” algae as possible - try to “catch” the strings in a toothbrush or similar, use a narrow syphon hose (syphon to bucket so you can return any accidental shrimp to tank), gently brush through the hairgrass with a “pick” comb
> 
> If it’s in the moss, just trim the moss back to the wood etc (I think you mentioned moss pieces breaking free?) - if you cut off any significant lumps of moss, you can comb through to remove any algae, then sparingly glue/tie to wood etc
> 
> ...


Thanks for that alto, i have done exactly that siphoned the algae off the moss and used fingers to removed as much as possible from hair grass.

Wonder what happened to the ottos also thats what puts me off nitrite snails the eggs but may look at what you have said. Pets at home is easiest place for me currently and theh often have a few types but not sure what ones exactly without going to look but i would surely want one that didnt lay eggs.

I will be getting some fish after christmas not sure weather to go for neons or something else i will have a look around.

Any idea in the light colours plants maybe too much light ? Also its hard to see growth as been around a month now and the carpet looks great you think rest of growth ok ? Soppose wouldn't want to much growth as be consistently trimming.

I may not feed anymore for then the shrimp will hopefully eat the algae been putting pinch of food in lately for ottos but they dont move from the glass.

Thanks dean

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## Ady34 (21 Dec 2019)

Hi Dean, tank looks great. 
I’d maybe try adding more fertilisers and checking the co2 level out to help with the algae and deficiencies.
Did you ever sort the drop checker issue? A way of seeing if all is working as it should is to remove the drop checker from the aquarium for a few hours, the solution should return to blue. If it does not there is something a miss and this needs addressing. If the solution is good then you should be getting a more significant colour change towards lime green for lights on. This is essential if your light is running at 100% intensity. You need to ensure co2 and fertilisers are on point if your lighting is at maximum. You could try utilising the dimmer again to offer a bit more wiggle room. You need to ensure both the start and end points of the timer are 0% otherwise the light will always be ramping up or down from the last input.
The substrate and carpet plants may be utilising the fertilisers better so adding more may help with the pale plants and slow growth on the rest. Are you using both specialised and premium ferts?
Cheerio
Ady.


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## Deano3 (22 Dec 2019)

Ady34 said:


> Hi Dean, tank looks great.
> I’d maybe try adding more fertilisers and checking the co2 level out to help with the algae and deficiencies.
> Did you ever sort the drop checker issue? A way of seeing if all is working as it should is to remove the drop checker from the aquarium for a few hours, the solution should return to blue. If it does not there is something a miss and this needs addressing. If the solution is good then you should be getting a more significant colour change towards lime green for lights on. This is essential if your light is running at 100% intensity. You need to ensure co2 and fertilisers are on point if your lighting is at maximum. You could try utilising the dimmer again to offer a bit more wiggle room. You need to ensure both the start and end points of the timer are 0% otherwise the light will always be ramping up or down from the last input.
> The substrate and carpet plants may be utilising the fertilisers better so adding more may help with the pale plants and slow growth on the rest. Are you using both specialised and premium ferts?
> ...


Thanks a lot mate and yeah it was the solution i ordered a pre made mix for drop checker and now easy to read and goes lime green for lights on. Dosing 1 swuirt of the green tropica daily at the moment maybe i should try 2 ? Thanks for kind comments and input as i need it.

Cant wait to rescape after new year as not a huge fan of the wood at minute.

Thanks dean 

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## Ady34 (24 Dec 2019)

In that case I would try adding more ferts to start. 
Cheerio.


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## Deano3 (24 Dec 2019)

Ady34 said:


> In that case I would try adding more ferts to start.
> Cheerio.


Doing that now mate doing 2 pumps.

Took wood out as sick of trying to make look right and and sick off moss going everwere looks a bit low but i want to do rescape soon.

Have a great Christmas everyone
Dean






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## Deano3 (31 Dec 2019)

Little update pic heavy, tank running along nicely i feel like slow growth but grown in less than 2 months and i wouldnt want any quicker.

I am experiencing some browning of my hair grass and still having the algae on it and also bad surface film. 
Any ideas ?

Also green looks less bright even than previous pichures.

Currently around 2-3bps (harder than i remember to tune in co2 as have to put on 3 1/4 hours before lights on to make light green but then starting to get very light and nearly yellow when switches off) but if up it it goes yellow later during photo period. Doing 1.2ml of flourish excel daily and 1 squirt of tropica specialised daily.

Maintenence is around every 3-4 days whenever i am free and i drain some water give rocks a quick wipe with tooth brush and glass then wipe glass with kitchen roll and sway plants around then drain 50-70% water and refil then add prime.

Any comments welcome. Looking forward to doing next scape with rocks and sand along whole front of tank so i can have more stems at the rear.

Also added 5 neons as thats all thats available locally and there lovely looking fish. 

Thanks dean













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## Deano3 (31 Dec 2019)

I have reached my imagine upload limmit for tappatalk 

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## Deano3 (4 Jan 2020)

Quick update received some plants today from ryan lots of rotala in stunning condition and colour thanks very much again,however no room to plant so had to rip out some hair grass.

I will rearrange soon and rescape.

Few problems have green hair alage and browing on leave edges and haor gress isnt as green and looks brown and darker in places and has algae any ideas what would cause this ? Even when doing regular water changes and running brush and hands through grass etc hard to get rid and the grass i removed looked brownish in places.

Also co2 takes 3.5 hours to get lime green but after being on for 4-5 hours starts going yellow any reason why this happens

Thanks dean.







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## Geoffrey Rea (4 Jan 2020)

Have you tried running a lily pipe instead of a jet @Deano3 ?


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## Deano3 (4 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Have you tried running a lily pipe instead of a jet @Deano3 ?


Hi geoffrey you think could be due to lack of flow or co2 or nutrients ? The jet seemed to move the plants around more and its also a lot smaller as nano so was more for looks to be honest. 

Some of plants at rear right seem to be going see through thats behind all other plants is there such a thing as to dense planting ?

Thanks dean

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## Geoffrey Rea (4 Jan 2020)

Your pics look like surface agitation is quite high, but pics can be deceiving.

Just noting the Co2 issues, with large lag time to get drop checker where you want, may be related to this. Hair algae issues could also be related to inadequate co2 and ferts being insufficient. You could be gassing off too much Co2 due to delivery method if you are using an inline diffuser with a jet? Can’t see an in tank diffuser?

I get the aesthetic value of a jet in glass, but a good lily pipe disperses the Co2 mist evenly and if the water level is set correctly, creates a vortex that pulls on the water surface to break the tension. This skims and draws down any oily residue to improve gas exchange and provides additional top up to o2 in a controlled way.

Also your intake is a tool for controlling flow as well so placing it in the rear right corner could draw flow through the stems to improve distribution. 

Tank looks really nice by the way!


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## Deano3 (4 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Your pics look like surface agitation is quite high, but pics can be deceiving.
> 
> Just noting the Co2 issues, with large lag time to get drop checker where you want, may be related to this. Hair algae issues could also be related to inadequate co2 and ferts being insufficient. You could be gassing off too much Co2 due to delivery method if you are using an inline diffuser with a jet? Can’t see an in tank diffuser?
> 
> ...


thanks for the compliment i always see the picture's and think wow it looks great but feel less so in person and defently not happy with the algae in the hair grass etc

I could try the inlet in the rear right but packed with stems so may have to move one or 2 you think worth a try ? And will i have to remove algae or once flow etc right should it start to improve ?

I wonder if i should go back to normal lily pipe to try this out even if doesnt look as good visually and thanks for that information regarding how it works really helps and also yes i have inline diffuser. Didnt relise the lilly pipe plays such an important role and maybe it is gassing off to much as does create a lot of surface movement.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (6 Jan 2020)

I have now fitted a a normal style lilly pipe to see if the hair grass improves in volour etc.

I will try removing algae on water change best i can and keep doing up etc.

Still took a good 3-4 hours to get drop checker lime green forst day and went yellow by time knovked off but back at work now so cant keep an eye but will get wife to.

Think mighy go back to kntank diffuser at some point as always worry about a leak but ok for now anyway.

And as previously said can you plant to dense so plants behind or under neath suffer and melt ?

Thanks and help appreciated.
Dean

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## Deano3 (9 Jan 2020)

Generally tank doing ok you can see some browning and algae in the hair grass   when i did water change seems to be lots of detritus in it as you see in the pic k may try using a turkey baster to get it all out incase this is the cause of the algae.

Still dosing 1 squirt tropica and 2-3bps co2.

Doing water change ever 4 days or so.

As aked earlier can you plant to densely?

Once plants grow may rescape and make sire inlet and outlet on oposite sides of tank and get plenty of flow through then.

Thanks dean 







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## CooKieS (9 Jan 2020)

Hi,

Looks like an deficiency of macros.

Could dose more tropica ferts daily or add extra potassium


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## Deano3 (9 Jan 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Hi,
> 
> Looks like an deficiency of macros.
> 
> Could dose more tropica ferts daily or add extra potassium


Wonder if EI dry powders work better  what exactly do you ise for ferts ? but for now i will does 2x squirts of tropica specialised,  seems a lot for a 45p  and i will keep up water changes and trykng to get as muvh detritus up as i can .

Thanks mate

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## Patrick Crowley (9 Jan 2020)

Dean - I’ve just moved to dosing 2 x specialised Tropica in my 45p.  Done so for the last week and think I’m seeing some benefits.  Tank is a similar age to yours too.

I’d say give it a try


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## Deano3 (9 Jan 2020)

Patrick Crowley said:


> Dean - I’ve just moved to dosing 2 x specialised Tropica in my 45p.  Done so for the last week and think I’m seeing some benefits.  Tank is a similar age to yours too.
> 
> I’d say give it a try
> 
> ...


Thanks Patrick i will do from tonorro. 

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (13 Jan 2020)

Quick update, wanted flow through the plants so removed the rock with trident fern on and planced inlet at rear right hand side of the tank, found a lot of planted in that position looked melted i take it that will be due to lack of flow and co2 do you think so ?

Since changed the outlet the surface is much clearer and less bio film. Fish seem to love hanging around in the back near the inlet.

I have now 4 ottos so hope they help with clean up, the trident on the rock leaves are see throigh in places and algae on others will it repair ? And when the simensis 53b leaves reavh the surface as they have they do the same should i remove or trim lower down and replant ?

Also purchased a turkey baster to blow up the carpet as looks like choking and clocked up. Hopefully starts to improve.

I am also dosing liquid carbon daily do lots of people do this or not ? Or just when algae bad.

Advice appreciated

Thanks dean







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## Deano3 (15 Jan 2020)

Rotala seems to be doing well, think maybe loosing the red but sire its growing.

Anyone any udea what these are on some of my rotala and on mt anubias hard to see but white on outside, snails maybe ? Not tried removing yet but will tomorro and do water change.

Would you remove the trident fern on the left as leaves have black and see through patches and algae etc or can it be saved ? It was originally on rear right behind all other plants with no light or flow i susspect.


Any advice on my previous questions would be helpful.

Thanks dean







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## dw1305 (16 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> ut white on outside, snails maybe ?


They are <"River Limpets"> (_Acroloxus lacustris_). 





Deano3 said:


> Would you remove the trident fern on the left as leaves have black and see through patches and algae etc or can it be saved


Should be savable, I'd trim of all the dead leaves. 





Deano3 said:


> I have now 4 ottos so hope they help with clean up


Are they eating vegetables as well? I never like to let mine get any thinner than the one on the glass in the last photo.

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (16 Jan 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, They are <"River Limpets"> (_Acroloxus lacustris_). Should be savable, I'd trim of all the dead leaves. Are they eating vegetables as well? I never like to let mine get any thinner than the one on the glass in the last photo.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I will trim off the leaves thay are black and dead and hopefully be saved and was just dying due to being behind all the other plants so getting no light etc or flow, changed the inlet to behind plants now so hopefully improves.

Will the limpets cause any harm ? How can i get rid of them ?

What us the best thing to feed the ottos what would you recomend ?

Thanks dean

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## dw1305 (16 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> What us the best thing to feed the ottos what would you recomend ?


We have a thread <"Tips on feeding...">.





Deano3 said:


> Will the limpets cause any harm ?


No, they are entirely harmless to plants, they graze on the biofilm at night. For whatever reason they tend to come and go in abundance in my tanks (possibly temperature related?). 





Deano3 said:


> How can i get rid of them ?


A <"mollusc killer will kill them">. They need <"reasonably high water quality">, so I look on their presence as a positive thing. 

cheers Darrel


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## Patrick Crowley (16 Jan 2020)

I dose liquid carbon on top of my CO2 gas daily, I think it makes sense when you are trying to get plants established.  I may not do it permanently though.

My Ottos love courgette slices, I just put them in boiling water for a few minutes to soften them up first 


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## Iain Sutherland (16 Jan 2020)

Hey dean, sorry your having a few issues fella...all good learning 

In regards to solving the issues I'd think your dosing is still a bit light, I dose one squirt tropica in my 60 low tech shrimp and and it gets consumed, granted the ficus in the filter helps but worth looking at. If you have a tds meter you can get a pretty good idea if the tds climbs daily then plants wont be using it all.  Bare in mind you will see about 5-10tds rise from mini landscape rock in a 60...

Your previous question of to dense planting.... yes and no.  When a tank is well tuned then no, but dense plants in a tank with some problems can exacerbate the issue due to reduced flow... below was my 60 which was in a happy place..luck not judgement.

Ultimately look at ferts and dim your lights a little while you resolve the problems 





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## Deano3 (16 Jan 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, We have a thread <"Tips on feeding...">.No, they are entirely harmless to plants, they graze on the biofilm at night. For whatever reason they tend to come and go in abundance in my tanks (possibly temperature related?). A <"mollusc killer will kill them">. They need <"reasonably high water quality">, so I look on their presence as a positive thing.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks for that i thought they never seemed interested in my wafers or any of the fish food.i have read forum and will be feeding them some red peppers tomorro and some cucumber, i will just cut into smallish strips and boil for few minutes in boiling water before adding into tank.

Thats good news if need good ish water quality least doing something right.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (16 Jan 2020)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hey dean, sorry your having a few issues fella...all good learning
> 
> In regards to solving the issues I'd think your dosing is still a bit light, I dose one squirt tropica in my 60 low tech shrimp and and it gets consumed, granted the ficus in the filter helps but worth looking at. If you have a tds meter you can get a pretty good idea if the tds climbs daily then plants wont be using it all.  Bare in mind you will see about 5-10tds rise from mini landscape rock in a 60...
> 
> ...


Wow that is defently densely planted, good to hear from you Iain hope all is well, forum seems a little quiet lately so good to hear from you.

The plants at the back next to the inlet still seem to have some deficiencies and melt look as going see through etc, i will start dosing 3 squirts of the tropica specialised daily and see if that helps with the hair grass i am always worried algae takes over if does to much but i will keep up maintainence and make sure that doesnt happen,  rest of plants seem to be growing well and i am sure bucephalandra is going to flower. Just the colours and the hair grass that i am not happy with and getting a bit of green hair algae.

I have the controller for the lights but never managed to set it up correctly so have lights just on a timer.

I will dig the controller out and if i can manged to set lights to 90 percent and see if that helps. Last time i strugged setting it to come on at 90 percent and go off at 90 percent at the times i wanted but will have another crack at it.

Thanks for the help to everyone its greatly appreciated.

Thanks dean

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## buttons (17 Jan 2020)

Tank is looking great. 

How is the fit of your biomaster 250 in the cabinet, does your door close? I’ve just bought a 250 and believe I have the same cabinet build as your and I’m struggling to close the door without slightly tilting the filter  


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## Deano3 (18 Jan 2020)

buttons said:


> Tank is looking great.
> 
> How is the fit of your biomaster 250 in the cabinet, does your door close? I’ve just bought a 250 and believe I have the same cabinet build as your and I’m struggling to close the door without slightly tilting the filter
> 
> ...


No doesnt fit  i was going to router out a square as in image as only catches on the clip but never bothered , joiner said cut hole and put some thin board on and paint bit didnt want it to stick out from rest of cabinet even a little so currently i only have 2 magnets at top and sticks out on bottom but dont notice from anywere as in corner and settee beside it, didnt want to cut door as eventually when upgrade tank cabinet will be fine for a different filter to fit  i find oase fitlers are quite large.

Little update sure my bucephalandra is flowering and rotala grows so fast its crazy  hairgrass is still yellowing but not sure if improving. Keep taking grass up for more real estate for planting .

Also film seems to have formed quick on surface but think lilly pipe was facing downward slighlty as forgot to put clip on that holds it straight.

Thanks dean









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## buttons (18 Jan 2020)

Cheers for the info. I should of asked before buying the 250 myself lol. I many swap it with JBL e901 I have on another tank because that will fit as it a lot thinner. The Oase biomaster are definitely on the chunky side.  


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## Janci (19 Jan 2020)

I love this tank and set up.
Looks great.


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## Deano3 (19 Jan 2020)

Janci said:


> I love this tank and set up.
> Looks great.


Thank you very much 

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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2020)

Tank plodding along nicely seen to have less of that brown algae, still bits of green and brown on few plants but usually remove on water change.

The rotala is growing very fast so will need to learn how to trim and replant along with the siamensis 53b so if anyone has any links that would be very helpful, also do you think i should give the hair grass a trim so shorter ?

Want very dense planting at back i always struggle as when plant one another seems to lift but its just practice.

I found a few bucephalandra leaves on surface that had straight cuts and one of my buce has a few holes in any ideas what this could be? Shrimp maybe ?

Thanks dean









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## Ryan Thang To (21 Jan 2020)

Hello mate

Tank is looking at lot better. Well done. About the stem just cut it short and every time it grow 5 cm cut it again. Soon it will be very bushy

The hair grass cut it really short and clean it up with a toothbrush and go over with a hose. 

Cheers
Ryan


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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2020)

Ryan Thang To said:


> Hello mate
> 
> Tank is looking at lot better. Well done. About the stem just cut it short and every time it grow 5 cm cut it again. Soon it will be very bushy
> 
> ...


Hi ryanwhat stems you referring to the rotala ? How short would you rscomend cutting it down to and should k replantthe cut sections ? I read that were ever i cut it 2 stems will emerge is that correct ?

So if i keep cutting the stems short it would end up very dense.

Any ideas about the bucephalandra and why keeps losing leaves and why could have holes ?

I will trim the carpet very soon

Thanks dean

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## Ryan Thang To (21 Jan 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Hi ryanwhat stems you referring to the rotala ? How short would you rscomend cutting it down to and should k replantthe cut sections ? I read that were ever i cut it 2 stems will emerge is that correct ?
> 
> So if i keep cutting the stems short it would end up very dense.
> 
> ...


Hi

It look like they all stems at the background so yes if you keep cutting them then 2 more will grow and you can replant the off cuts

About how short to cut, it up to you. Of course if you cut it very low you can get it very bushy by cutting more often

The bucephalandra im not sure. Maybe it was a weak leaf. Cut it off it will soon grow back


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## Deano3 (21 Jan 2020)

I have been watching some green aqua videos and they seem to cut right down to soil then replant the off cuts i may try this, it will obviously look bare for a while but thats the fun i guess. 

They also said doesnt need to be replanted into the soil as the roots will find the soil anyway.

Would you go aboit the siamensis 53b the same way ? Think will let all grow more before trimming.

Not sure weather to rescape before trimming.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (22 Jan 2020)

Would i replant the 53b the same way ? Like i say watched a few videos on green aqua and they cut the stems right down to substrate and replant so think i will do this.


Should all my plants be strong enough to replant now as wanting to rescape the tank next week.

Thanks dean


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## Ryan Thang To (22 Jan 2020)

Hello mate.

Green aqua they do it that way because once it get very bushy and too dense the bottom plants doesn't look great no more so instead of uprooting the plants it just be easier to cut it right down and replant.

In your case you dont need to do that just trim half way or lower and then replant the off cuts.

Do that to all your stems and it be fine

Cheers
Ryan


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## Deano3 (28 Jan 2020)

Quick update, give the hair grass and plants first ever trim hopefully i did an ok job, i replanted the stems.

Thinking if getting a few snails for more livestock most likely nerite snails, hopefully horned ones as hopefully lay less eggs.

I have no experience with snails so do they lay many eggs and are they impossible to remove. 

Tank doing well regarding algae none really touch wood just green on rocks what is really hard to remove but i dont mind to much to be honest. Only thing i want is a small 12mm inflow with skimmer like i have seen in other posts as the aquascaper ones are to large for this tank. And in future a more powerful light for red plants.

I have also move the inflow next to the outflow in order to plant at the rear and see how it goes.

Thanks dean 

Before and after





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Also shrimp i received from nick doing well think i have 5 or so of them in there stilk


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## Jayefc1 (28 Jan 2020)

Hi Deano tank looks nice mate a good job on your first trimming session already looks bushier at the back with the stem tops replanted the green on the rocks probs diatomes guessing you havnt really had much of a issue with these most new tanks go through a stage of them there pretty easy to wipe away when doing your maintenance if you want to clean the rocks a little wire brush does wonders as for the ferts have you tried just adding some Mgso4 (Epsom salts) may help with the green colour your after have you looked at James planted tank web page it's pretty good at breaking down what's in the tropica ferts you might see where your falling a little short on them are you using both kinds of the tropic or just the one kind not really sure on these but I do know there is a green and a brown one  Has your co2 issue got any better on my 45p the co2 is probs at about 4 bps with in line diffuser and it's a nice lime green colour all the way through as your tank is maturing you might find that it will stay lime green instead of yellowing towards the end of the photo period as the plant mass grows stick with it use at as a great learning curve also what helped me was a little diary of all the mistakes I made in the first 5_10 tanks lol so each time I rescaped I could just look back and think aww dont do that again lol 

Cheers
J


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## Deano3 (28 Jan 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Hi Deano tank looks nice mate a good job on your first trimming session already looks bushier at the back with the stem tops replanted the green on the rocks probs diatomes guessing you havnt really had much of a issue with these most new tanks go through a stage of them there pretty easy to wipe away when doing your maintenance if you want to clean the rocks a little wire brush does wonders as for the ferts have you tried just adding some Mgso4 (Epsom salts) may help with the green colour your after have you looked at James planted tank web page it's pretty good at breaking down what's in the tropica ferts you might see where your falling a little short on them are you using both kinds of the tropic or just the one kind not really sure on these but I do know there is a green and a brown one  Has your co2 issue got any better on my 45p the co2 is probs at about 4 bps with in line diffuser and it's a nice lime green colour all the way through as your tank is maturing you might find that it will stay lime green instead of yellowing towards the end of the photo period as the plant mass grows stick with it use at as a great learning curve also what helped me was a little diary of all the mistakes I made in the first 5_10 tanks lol so each time I rescaped I could just look back and think aww dont do that again lol
> 
> Cheers
> J


Thanks for that jay i do have a note pad were i have been taking notes as so easy to forget and ask same questions over and over .

Regarding the ferts i have been using the green tropica specialised and its nearly ran out so not sure whether to buy more or try something else ? Like EI dry powders.

Thanks for the kind words and the green on rocks i probably could scrub but doesnt bother me to much currently, i have some small wire brushes at work i think i could try.

Any recomendations on snails and nerite snail eggs like are they hard to remove and do they end up everywere ? I would only want a couple.

Thanks dean

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## dw1305 (28 Jan 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> Any recomendations on snails and nerite snail eggs like are they hard to remove and do they end up everywere ? I would only want a couple.


It is only really Nerite snails that produce the persistent white egg cases. 

Other aquarium snails are either live bearing (viviparous) like MTS (_Melanoides_ spp.) and Rabbit Snails (_Tylomelania_) or lay small eggs in a gelatinous surround like Red Ramshorn (P_lanorbis rubrum_) or Tadpole snails (_Physella acuta_).

People like Nerites because they do a good job (in hard water) on hardscape and they don't proliferate (the eggs need brackish water to develop). The Sulawesi snails need specialised conditions, but the other species mentioned will survive in much softer water and are "self-sustaining".

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (28 Jan 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It is only really Nerite snails that produce the persistent white egg cases.
> 
> Other aquarium snails are either live bearing (viviparous) like MTS (_Melanoides_ spp.) and Rabbit Snails (_Tylomelania_) or lay small eggs in a gelatinous surround like Red Ramshorn (P_lanorbis rubrum_) or Tadpole snails (_Physella acuta_).
> 
> ...


Cheers for that Darrell,  nerite snails are easiest for me to get as have a selection at pets at home that is nice and local and they are also look good and as you say are good workers.

Are the eggs they lay bad and unsightly and do they lay a lot ? I am debating getting a couple of them and think would add some nice interest into tank.

Also thinking of buying EI starter kit with dry powders as flying through bottle of specialised,  you think should work ok as be lot less pricey.

Thanks dean

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## Jayefc1 (28 Jan 2020)

I'm.no expert but I do.believe the zedra nerites are the work egg layer I have 4 yellow horn and 3 onion nerites in my tank and no eggs but perfectly clean glass 

Cheers
J


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## DeepMetropolis (30 Jan 2020)

I have zebra nerites and for some reason they only lay eggs on wood.. And yes you can see them as they choose the most darkest places on the wood.. But they dissappear after a while.. I'm not bothered by it but others might.


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## Deano3 (3 Feb 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> I have zebra nerites and for some reason they only lay eggs on wood.. And yes you can see them as they choose the most darkest places on the wood.. But they dissappear after a while.. I'm not bothered by it but others might.


I still cant decide about snails or to buy more shrimp  i think they lay eggs on rocks aswel but cant decide if can be bothered with the egg situation.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (3 Feb 2020)

Quick update thinkgs going great with practically zero alage. Would like a different fish selection at some point like rasboras but no rush currently as ticking along so well.

Glad got the twinstar controller working thanks to some people on here love how it slowly dims over half hour period.

Thanks dean 






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## CooKieS (3 Feb 2020)

Looking lush, keep on!


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## Tankless (3 Feb 2020)

Where did you purchase the twinstar controller from?


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## Ryan Thang To (3 Feb 2020)

Hello mate. 

Glad everything is on track. By the look of it, it look like very dense and green. Good job mate. Keep it up

Cheers
Ryan


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## Deano3 (3 Feb 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Looking lush, keep on!


Thanks mate i am amazed myself for finially getting a tank thriving  just luck i think and planting heavily from the start.

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## Deano3 (3 Feb 2020)

Tankless said:


> Where did you purchase the twinstar controller from?


I got all mine 2nd hand off a member but its from AG
https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/led-controllerdimmer-for-twinstar-lights-3615-p.asp

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## Deano3 (3 Feb 2020)

Ryan Thang To said:


> Hello mate.
> 
> Glad everything is on track. By the look of it, it look like very dense and green. Good job mate. Keep it up
> 
> ...


Thanks ryan and the twinstar is great how it slowly dims over half hour to 0 percent gives some great colours. Thanks for kind words everyone, still dosing 3 squirts of tropica specialised and some liquid carbon daily.

Any thoughts on more shrimp or if i should get a nerite snail or 2 or would the eggs drive me crazy 

Like i say i will rescape soon but enjoying the ease at the minute. And when rescape i will need to spend on new plants etc as will want more bucephalandra etc so no rush yet.

Thanks dean

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## Tankless (3 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> I got all mine 2nd hand off a member but its from AG
> https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/led-controllerdimmer-for-twinstar-lights-3615-p.asp
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk



Does the controller remove the need of using a mechanical timer to turn the light on and off at specific times?


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## Deano3 (4 Feb 2020)

Tankless said:


> Does the controller remove the need of using a mechanical timer to turn the light on and off at specific times?


Yes you can change intensity i have at 90 percent then set to go off at a certain time and it will ramp down fron 90 to zero over half hour as i have it set.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (5 Feb 2020)

Spoke to soon found some algae in aquarium skme staghorn i think  its black and stringy and on edges of plant leaves and sometimes in middle.

I done a water change and also done a filter clean as only done 1 or 2 in last few months and it was quite dirty in bottom of filter bolw, cleaned all the filter media by rinseing it in tank water then cleaned pre filter under tank (done pre filter more often) whilst water level was low i spot dosed some liquid carbon onto the staghorn i could see and removed a couple of leaves.

I noticed some plants at rear looked melted etc, i have moved the drop checker to the inlet filter side of tank as think maybe not enough co2 at rear right were the denser plant mass is. When drop checker was at the left it was lime green / yellow just after lights on but will up it a bit.

Any recomendations would be great.
Next time i do a scape maybe soon i will put in the filter inlet and outlet before planting to make sure flow etc should be ok.

Thanks dean





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## Deano3 (5 Feb 2020)

Apart  from above questions can i ask when you soak lilly pipes etc in bleech and water how much seachem prime you add to a fresh water container after rinsing them ?

Thanks dean

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## CooKieS (5 Feb 2020)

Ahhhh, same algae than mine, I think the dirty prefilter foam is Worth checking, mine is full of dirt after one month, thinking of replacing it with Something coarser.


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Ahhhh, same algae than mine, I think the dirty prefilter foam is Worth checking, mine is full of dirt after one month, thinking of replacing it with Something coarser.


Yes there not blue any more, is it worth changing you think and let me know what you decide on, could that hold the alage what causing the staghorn you think ? And by spot dosing excel is that best way to go?

Thanks mate
Dean

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## Jayefc1 (6 Feb 2020)

If there the oase pre filter foams they should be cleaned weekly lol just rinsed in cold tap water that is why they designed it so there easy to get to and if you do change them.go for the cardon ones there course and help to polish the water


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> If there the oase pre filter foams they should be cleaned weekly lol just rinsed in cold tap water that is why they designed it so there easy to get to and if you do change them.go for the cardon ones there course and help to polish the water


I do normally clean the prefilter a lot more often than main filter compartment but maybe not weekly as i should.

So far i have dosed the staghorn with liquid carbon and today i will not be doing water change so will turn filters off and dose again liqud carbon over the staghorn i can see.

Are them pre-filter sponges correct size or need cut to size and i think may do same thing and replace the prefilters. But is that the logic that staghorn alage may be trapped in the prefilters or bad bacteria/alage is in the dirty prefilters?

Thanks dean

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## Jayefc1 (6 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> I do normally clean the prefilter a lot more often than main filter compartment but maybe not weekly as i should.



Should be done weekly to stop the need for cleaning mail filter as often and to help with any reduction in flow hence helping to combat alge 



Deano3 said:


> Are them pre-filter sponges correct size or need cut to size and i think may do same thing and replace the prefilters. But is that the logic that staghorn alage may be trapped in the prefilters or bad bacteria/alage is in the dirty prefilters?


None of the oase pre filter sponges need cutting 
If your pre filter sponges are dirty there going to reduce flow and not filter the water as it should be there fore giving alge the edge in the tank hence why your getting a little now I would think I would clean your filter out and start to clean the sponges weekly the pre filter sponges are not for any kind biological filtration


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Should be done weekly to stop the need for cleaning mail filter as often and to help with any reduction in flow hence helping to combat alge
> 
> 
> None of the oase pre filter sponges need cutting
> If your pre filter sponges are dirty there going to reduce flow and not filter the water as it should be there fore giving alge the edge in the tank hence why your getting a little now I would think I would clean your filter out and start to clean the sponges weekly the pre filter sponges are not for any kind biological filtration


Thanks for that jay when i said are they cut to size i was regarding to the pre filter sponges you recommended the more coarse ones  ?

Will my biological filtration be the main filter compartment that i have 3 large sponges in and tubes in bottom rack and these have all the biological bacteria etc that support the life in the aquarium ?

So the prefilter is just to catch the larger particles of dead plant mass etc, and a more coarser prefilter sponge improve flow and thus reduce the alage etc.

Does that sounds right as its very helpful to me and any link to more coarse spomges would be great if you think would help.

Thanks dean 

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## Jayefc1 (6 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> regarding to the pre filter sponges you recommended the more coarse ones ?


Yeah you can buy them in pack of 4 or 6 think there are 4 diffrent kinds you can get fine medium course and cardon


Deano3 said:


> Will my biological filtration be the main filter compartment that i have 3 large sponges in and tubes in bottom rack and these have all the biological bacteria etc that support the life in the aquarium ?


Yes all the good stuff is in the main compartment that should always be cleaned in aqaurium water never tap it sounds to ke like you have way to.much sponge in there filter trays should be as follows
Bottom tray course sponge catches all dirt
Next tray biological media (tubes)
Then depending on size of filter
Another tray of biological media
Top tray  filter floss to polish the water as it returns to the aquarium


Deano3 said:


> So the prefilter is just to catch the larger particles of dead plant mass etc, and a more coarser prefilter sponge improve flow and thus reduce the alage etc.


Yeah that's exactly right mate that's why they made them so easy to remove and clean

https://www.swelluk.com/biomaster-r...8jEjlN2b2MfKyEdWJFrtgV1pJ-IVy36xoCEzkQAvD_BwE

Personally I'd look at cardon ones 

https://www.completeaquatics.co.uk/...gvIMZrQiH7JtidQvaP2NX57PPSdszN-hoCTrYQAvD_BwE

Cheers
J


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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> But is that the logic that staghorn alage may be trapped in the prefilters or bad bacteria/alage is in the dirty prefilters?


We don't really know, but outbreaks of Staghorn Algae appear to often be preceded by a period when there has been higher than <"normal levels of organic pollution"> (dissolved organic matter - DOM). 

If you have a fine sponge pre-filter it will trap a lot of this fine organic carbon (a sort of mechanical polishing). If you don't regularly clean the pre-filter over time that fine organic matter will build up and start to decompose. At some point oxygen will become limiting for decomposition and we think that may be the trigger for Staghorn Algae growth. I like to make sure all the <"filter media is aerobic">, I don't want anaerobic denitrification because plants are very efficient at mopping up any residual NO3 (from aerobic nitrification). 

That Staghorn "trigger" might be an increase in trace levels of ammonia or nitrite or of a particular chemical, we just don't know.  This is all conjecture, but people are using a <"similar approach to look at the precursors to water pollution">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Yeah you can buy them in pack of 4 or 6 think there are 4 diffrent kinds you can get fine medium course and cardon
> 
> Yes all the good stuff is in the main compartment that should always be cleaned in aqaurium water never tap it sounds to ke like you have way to.much sponge in there filter trays should be as follows
> Bottom tray course sponge catches all dirt
> ...


Thanks so much j for all that greatly appreciated  i never chnaged the filter media from when filter came except i addes into the bag of tubes some more fluval ones. 

The filter has tray on bottom of plastic and fluval tubes then rest are all sponge material i may have to change i think i will post a question in the filter section see what others who have these filters use.

Thanks again j 

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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, We don't really know, but outbreaks of Staghorn Algae appear to often be preceded by a period when there has been higher than <"normal levels of organic pollution"> (dissolved organic matter - DOM).
> 
> If you have a fine sponge pre-filter it will trap a lot of this fine organic carbon (a sort of mechanical polishing). If you don't regularly clean the pre-filter over time that fine organic matter will build up and start to decompose. At some point oxygen will become limiting for decomposition and we think that may be the trigger for Staghorn Algae growth. I like to make sure all the <"filter media is aerobic">, I don't want anaerobic denitrification because plants are very efficient at mopping up any residual NO3 (from aerobic nitrification).
> 
> ...


Thanks for that darrel very interesting do you usually got for more coarser pre filters. 

Dean

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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> do you usually got for more coarser pre filters


Ideally I like a <"really big block of foam">. They work for me because I don't do aesthetics and have really weedy tanks. I use these on filter intakes as well as powerheads etc.




 

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Ideally I like a <"really big block of foam">. They work for me because I don't do aesthetics and have really weedy tanks. I use these on filter intakes as well as powerheads etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks coarse and not fine  think i will get some new pre filter sponges to improve flow and also hopefully wont clog up as easy with organic matter.

Are the 30ppi ones more fine than the 60ppi ones is the ppi how large particles are what theh catch or allow through ?

Thanks dean

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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Deano3 said:


> Are the 30ppi ones more fine than the 60ppi ones is the ppi how large particles are what theh catch or allow through ?


PPI is "Pores Per Inch", so the higher the number the finer the sponge is. 





Deano3 said:


> That looks coarse


They are ~PPI15. 

You can buy them from any Koi place relatively cheaply. 

I don't like any sponge finer than PPI20. If you use them for <"matten filters"> you can go a bit finer, but even then <"PPI30 is as fine as I would go">.

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, PPI is "Pores Per Inch", so the higher the number the finer the sponge is. They are ~PPI15.
> 
> You can buy them from any Koi place relatively cheaply.
> 
> ...


Brilliant thanks darrel , i am learning slowly but surely, basically dont go to fine or coarse as will clog up with organic waste and slow the flow down and de compose and trigger algae 

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## CooKieS (6 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, We don't really know, but outbreaks of Staghorn Algae appear to often be preceded by a period when there has been higher than <"normal levels of organic pollution"> (dissolved organic matter - DOM).
> 
> If you have a fine sponge pre-filter it will trap a lot of this fine organic carbon (a sort of mechanical polishing). If you don't regularly clean the pre-filter over time that fine organic matter will build up and start to decompose. At some point oxygen will become limiting for decomposition and we think that may be the trigger for Staghorn Algae growth. I like to make sure all the <"filter media is aerobic">, I don't want anaerobic denitrification because plants are very efficient at mopping up any residual NO3 (from aerobic nitrification).
> 
> ...



Very useful reading, thanks!


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## dw1305 (6 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





CooKieS said:


> Very useful reading


It is an interesting area. There is some discussion in the <"So what is organic waste?">  thread.





Deano3 said:


> basically dont go to fine or coarse as will clog up with organic waste and slow the flow down and de compose and trigger algae


Yes, if you have a coarse sponge you need a bigger block (greater thickness) but you can leave it much longer between cleanings (like a matten filter). I just don't like fine sponge or floss, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it but it means you have to be a lot more conscientious with your cleaning regime.

It is the same with not having any form of pre-filter and using your filter as a syphon. If you are very conscientious about cleaning it doesn't matter, but I think it is always likely to be "_out of sight, out of mind_" sooner or later, and it is just a risk factor you can avoid.

In terms of organic pollution as a precursor of Staghorn Algae outbreaks we really don't know why, or even if, it is one. <"It is just "best guess">, but if it is out there as an idea people may be able to see if there is a correlation, even though <"correlation is not necessarily the same as causation">.

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (6 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It is an interesting area. There is some discussion in the <"So what is organic waste?">  thread.Yes, if you have a coarse sponge you need a bigger block (greater thickness) but you can leave it much longer between cleanings (like a matten filter). I just don't like fine sponge or floss, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it but it means you have to be a lot more conscientious with your cleaning regime.
> 
> It is the same with not having any form of pre-filter and using your filter as a syphon. If you are very conscientious about cleaning it doesn't matter, but I think it is always likely to be "_out of sight, out of mind_" sooner or later, and it is just a risk factor you can avoid.
> 
> ...


Thanks again very helpful. I dont understand the science behind it all but get the general idea and makes sense.

I may post in the filter section to see if many people change the filter media out from whats supplied with the oase range.

One question i do have is what ppi are the carbon pre filter sponges from oase ? I know carbon is meant to clean the water to make more clear, any should sponges last a long time if cleaned weekly ? 

If the carbon ones are 30ppi i will get then as thats what the most coarse ones are for the oase prefilters.

Thanks dean

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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

@Deano3 might be worth giving this a watch


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## CooKieS (7 Feb 2020)

Niton said:


> @Deano3 might be worth giving this a watch




Very informative again!

Glad I didn't buy an Oase after seeing that though...that prefilter module seems an good idea at first sight. And then...this guys knows what he's talking about. 

Seems like you got some DIY to do @Deano3


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

Yeah Richard knows his stuff and has lots of interesting content on his channel aside from the 'Pimp My Filter' series... DIY filters, etc,.  I get that he is looking to promote his product but his experience and passion appears genuine.

Being from my part of the world means he gets bonus points too!  Love the auto-subtitles that YouTube provides for his videos!


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## Deano3 (7 Feb 2020)

Niton said:


> @Deano3 might be worth giving this a watch


Thanks for that nick at work now but just watched few mins and looks interesting so will watch that before i order any pre filter pads haha, do many people change the insides of the filter i never really thought about it much but does it make a big difference if a lot more beneficial bacteria in filter etc ? 

If anyone does know the ppi of the carbon filters that would be great but will watch when get home.

Cheers dean



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## Jayefc1 (7 Feb 2020)

What you do have to really remember though he is all about fish bio loads not planted tank and plant mass that is why he crams them full of biological media but in our world plants do so much of that for you so it's not as relevant as it seems


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> What you do have to really remember though he is all about fish bio loads not planted tank and plant mass that is why he crams them full of biological media but in our world plants do so much of that for you so it's not as relevant as it seems


Totally agree - but the way I look at it it is better to have too much than not enough... Even if it just means you get a little longer in maintenance time.  And you don't have to go all out like Richard has done but tweak it for your needs.  It's interesting to see the immediate changes he suggests and references flow issues being reported and how that may be over come by some 'simple' tweaks to media layout.


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Thanks for that nick at work now but just watched few mins and looks interesting so will watch that before i order any pre filter pads haha, do many people change the insides of the filter i never really thought about it much but does it make a big difference if a lot more beneficial bacteria in filter etc ?
> 
> If anyone does know the ppi of the carbon filters that would be great but will watch when get home.
> 
> ...



I've not modified the internal parts of my filters but where possible I have used Richard's concepts of mechanical filtration becoming finer and then as much biological media as possible in the remaining space.


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

@Deano3 I know it's not aesthetically great but I do think that a piece of course foam over your inlet is probably a very simple and effective means of performing that first step mechanical filtration.  May also save a few Shrimplets or fish fry if you get any babies!


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## Jayefc1 (7 Feb 2020)

Personally I'd rather follow what green aqua do in there filters as they are aquascaping pros not fish bio load pros as for better to have too much isnt that reducing flow and is the aquascaping saying flow is king


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## Jayefc1 (7 Feb 2020)

How to set up your filter


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

@Jayefc1 Don't see that they are suggesting anything different to be honest.


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## dw1305 (7 Feb 2020)

Hi all,





Niton said:


> but the way I look at it it is better to have too much than not enough.


Only if it doesn't impede water flow, you don't actually need very much biological media in a planted tank. 





Jayefc1 said:


> though he is all about fish bio loads not planted tank and plant mass that is why he crams them full of biological media


I agree that the media set-up he has is much better than the original set-up, but not because "Biohome" is intrinsically any better than coarse sponge, floating cell media etc.

The big think for me is that water flow through the filter is improved and more flow means more oxygen and more oxygen means more biological filtration capacity. The fine pore space etc  of the Biohome just isn't relevant. 

He has a product to sell. I'm sure he is sincere in his belief that it is the best biological filter media, but if it is, it isn't for the reasons he thinks.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Jayefc1 (7 Feb 2020)

All I'm saying is these guys no more about a planted tank and it's working than the pimp my filter guy 
A empty tray or trays less filled with the media allows more flow and the increases  oxygen it dont need to be stacked with media like he does


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## CooKieS (7 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> All I'm saying is these guys no more about a planted tank and it's working than the pimp my filter guy
> A empty tray or trays less filled with the media allows more flow and the increases  oxygen it dont need to be stacked with media like he does



Well it depends of the scape too...green aqua are salesman too, they are not gonna say that the included media of the brand they sell is not optimal.

Bio media is more expensive than foam hence why the filter brand aren't putting a lot in their product.


----------



## dw1305 (7 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Jayefc1 said:


> A empty tray or trays less filled with the media allows more flow and the increases oxygen it dont need to be stacked with media like he does


I've not tried "Biohome", but working on the premise that it is quite a good biological media, I think some of the reason is the actual shape of the pellets themselves.

They are quite big and they don't pack tight and that allows a lot of spaces between them. My guess is that even in the fully stuffed, pimped filter all the trays of "Biohome" are exposed to oxygen rich water.

It is back to <"werewolves"> or <"biocenosis bucket"> really, something might work, but not necessarily for the reasons given.  It is a bit like a great footballer being very superstitious, and having to follow the same pre-match ritual and becoming upset if they aren't the last one out of the changing room etc.. It doesn't make any sense but it matters to them.

cheers Darrel


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

@dw1305 there is also a Biohome gravel ,much smaller pebbles of scintered glass about 2 - 7mm in diameter mostly, just for info.  I know Richard has been involved in the development of the product and that the shape is a conscious choice as you suggest.


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## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

Any how I think we've side-tracked @Deano3's journal... maybe we should take this to the filter threads if we want to carry it on!


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## Jayefc1 (7 Feb 2020)

Haha agreed sorry @Deano3


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## dw1305 (7 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Niton said:


> @dw1305 there is also a Biohome gravel ,much smaller pebbles of scintered glass about 2 - 7mm in diameter mostly


I'm not surprised, because it is nice round grains I'd expect that it will still work pretty well. 

I'm using <"Eheim Substrat Pro">, which I think is similar and is a good media. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy the "coco-pops", but it has come with a couple of 2nd Hand filters I've purchased and I've used it.   

I do have some issues, I've just looked at the <"Biohome media page"> and it says 





> Please note: Tanks with heavy stock and feeding (e.g. cichlid, goldfish, predator or fry tanks) and marine tanks may require 1.5kg - 2kg per 100 litres to achieve the full cycle filtration which will result in the reduction of nitrates. Do not worry about plant growth being affected in a tank which reads zero nitrates - *the nitrate is processed into soluble nitrogen which is easily used by plants, boosting their growth.*


Which would ring all sorts of alarm bells for me. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Niton (7 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> I do have some issues, I've just looked at the <"Biohome media page"> and it says Which would ring all sorts of alarm bells for me.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Darn that Richard I had him pegged as a good sort!


----------



## dw1305 (7 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





Niton said:


> Richard I had him pegged as a good sort!


Email him and tell him that he might like to re-write that bit. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Deano3 (8 Feb 2020)

that was a lot of info watched both videos and agree with you all it shows the standard media can be massivly improved from the sponges in the baskets.

Any recomendations to change one of the sponges then i will cut the sponge down to use as pre filter  think i will keep the plastic biological in the net bag as i also added some fluval tubes that i had and i will change another blue mechanical sponge for more biological and keep 1 large blue sponge and in the top tray were there is a red sponge i could add wool.

Any recomendations for decent biological would be helpful ?

Also any information on the differnce that more biological filtration could make would be good.

P.s still dosing the staghorn with a few mill of liquid carbon daily.

Thanks dean

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## Deano3 (11 Feb 2020)

Quick update did a trim this morning again and water change and pre filter clean and staghorn seems to have gone by the most part and tank doing well feeling like a change soon bur a shame as plants have grown so well already wish i had a bigger tank.

I will reuse some i imagine and probably give rest away or sell but not quite yet.

Dean






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## Jayefc1 (12 Feb 2020)

Mate I'd hang on this is starting to turn in to a lovely scape 
Just saying 

Cheers
J


----------



## Deano3 (12 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Mate I'd hang on this is starting to turn in to a lovely scape
> Just saying
> 
> Cheers
> J


Wow thanks so much j never thought id hear that  but ill take it. I want more bucephalandra in next setup

Thanks mate

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## Deano3 (21 Feb 2020)

Quick update, i am exited to do a different scape and want a lot less plants next time and use a lot of epiphytes etc and more room for fish, i still need to get myself some more hardscape materials etc then going to empty the tank and rescape but not quite yet. 

Thanks everyone for all your help and support its been greatly appreciated and i couldnt have done it without you ,you have helped me achive what i wanted and growing of the plants healthily , sure i will need your help plenty with next scape.

Thanks dean



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## Jayefc1 (21 Feb 2020)

It is a lovely.little scape looks really healthy well.done mate hope it's achived everything you wanted it too


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## Deano3 (21 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> It is a lovely.little scape looks really healthy well.done mate hope it's achived everything you wanted it too


Thanks jay thats very kind and all i wanted this time was to grow plants and thats achieved son onto the next scape soon i think.

Dean

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## Jayefc1 (21 Feb 2020)

Well good luck mate I'm glad it worked out for you I guess third time was more than luck


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## Deano3 (23 Feb 2020)

Today i foind out i have baby cherries  first one i have seen, how many do they normally have ? They seem to live under a rock in a small cave so i tried to snap a picture of one today.

Happy about that haha they all seem to stay away from inlet so hopefully the babys do 




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## Sammy Islam (23 Feb 2020)

Same as that! Noticed a baby last night was a nice surprise!


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## Jayefc1 (23 Feb 2020)

The babies will live happily in the bottom.of the filter grazing if the do get sucked up the inflow just be sure to check when you clean your filter out I can have up to 20 in the pre filter tube just fish them out pop them.back in to the tank


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## Gill (24 Feb 2020)

Also You can feed egg shells to them to give them a vitamin and mineral boost.


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## Niton (24 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Today i foind out i have baby cherries  first one i have seen, how many do they normally have ? They seem to live under a rock in a small cave so i tried to snap a picture of one today.



Yes. I'm a happy grandad! Scape has come along brilliantly and the livestock are obviously happy. Nice one.


----------



## Deano3 (24 Feb 2020)

Niton said:


> Yes. I'm a happy grandad! Scape has come along brilliantly and the livestock are obviously happy. Nice one.


 loved that made me laugh  thanks nick and everyone else how many shrimp babys do they normally have any ideas ?

Yeah i will look when checking pre filter. 

Thanks dean

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## Niton (24 Feb 2020)

@Deano3 I've usually spotted 5 or 6 shrimplets at a time at best. Then I'd probably see 2 or 3 added to the colony over a few weeks. Your fish stock is tetra and they're not going to be all that interested in them that much I would guess.


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## Deano3 (28 Feb 2020)

Still not got round to rescaping yet but got a huge plastic box to store fish and plants then once rescaped i will put all my hardscape in it Cleaned my prefikter today and found 5 baby shrimp in there  couldnt belive it  my larger shrimp seem to avaoid the inlet but i will get a new filter guard ordered soon snapped a few pics aswel the plant growth is very fast so next scape i will have a lot less plants and slower growers maybe.

Hope your a proud grandad nick  they look great and colours on larger ones are great, sure i spotted another pregnant one in the pictures.

Thanks dean











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## Deano3 (6 Mar 2020)

Purchased some manzi wood for my next scape however some is huge but will keep hold of ot all for bigger tank  purchased from kev_m here on the forum so a huge thanks dome great pieces.









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## Deano3 (6 Mar 2020)

Also i am doing a trim tonight if anyone wants any trimmings i can get them sent out for price of postage and if someone tells me how they normall go about it.

Thanks dean

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## Tankless (6 Mar 2020)

What plants do you currently have within your scape?


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## Jayefc1 (6 Mar 2020)

Wood is lovely @Deano3 
And I really like the way your offering your trimmings for postage it's an expensive hobby and not all can afford to keep buying what can become expensive plants I think it's great to give back to the people of our community much respect mate


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## Deano3 (6 Mar 2020)

Tankless said:


> What plants do you currently have within your scape?


Hi tankless, i currently have all sorts of rotala ( rotala orrange ,red,green) and simensis 53b and some rottala bonsia these are all very fast growing.

Dean


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## Deano3 (6 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Wood is lovely @Deano3
> And I really like the way your offering your trimmings for postage it's an expensive hobby and not all can afford to keep buying what can become expensive plants I think it's great to give back to the people of our community much respect mate


Thanks so much jay and rather than binning it as no room to replant may aswel try help someone out and hopefully kn future some people can repay the favour when i need some plants .

I will need help on how to go about it i imagine just freezer sealed bags and spray with water and post.

Thanks dean



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## Tankless (6 Mar 2020)

Maybe wrap the plants in soaked paper towels to retain moisture? You could try sealing the plastic if you have a heat sealer.

I might contact you in future for the orange or red Rotalas. I currently have plants on the way so I'll wait until they settle in.


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## Deano3 (6 Mar 2020)

Huge trim done  like i say if anyone wants so trimmings for price of postage let me know.

Dean





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## Jayefc1 (7 Mar 2020)

When I send plants out I normally do it in a sealed jiffy bag with the plants in a sealed freezer bag with a few squirts of water first class postage is 3.50 I think so in all would probs cost £5 to post so I would ask for postage to be paid for if you out them in the for sale/wanted forum
Tank looks good with the trim bro


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## Deano3 (14 Mar 2020)

Got rid of the plants cheers jay, also did a big maintenance session today and going to up the maintenence as getting a lot of staghorn algae, found a great way to clean the pre filter sponges by placing them in beetween my 2 palms and rolling them colour coming out was like tea haha still not got round to buying course sponges.

We were thinking about moving so not rescaped but thats on the back burner at minute so may rescape soon. Wonder if worth buying a few bucephalandra plants to establish in here first ? Also some plants looking a bit off and discolour and just not healthiest so upped the ferts but going to do more maintenance as got a bit lazy lately .

Also removed the simensis 53b from left hand side and found 8 baby shrimp in prefilter when cleaning  plenty in tank so looking forward to having a bigger group of them thanks to nick 

Thanks dean



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## Deano3 (18 Mar 2020)

Seeing some deficiencys currently of darkning leaves and holes in leaves etc,  upped maintenance and ferts, my co2 is in red and running out so wonder if fluctuations?

Any advice
Thanks dean




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## Ryan Thang To (18 Mar 2020)

hello mate. it look like new growth is growing really well. give it time and see


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## Deano3 (19 Mar 2020)

Ryan Thang To said:


> hello mate. it look like new growth is growing really well. give it time and see


I just dont like all the holes and dirty looking growth on the leaves of the plants if you zoom in it doesnt look great.

You think it could just be  a ferts issue ?

Thanks dean

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## Jayefc1 (19 Mar 2020)

Had it happened since the.big trim @Deano3


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## Deano3 (20 Mar 2020)

Yeah i think so mate obviously i want to see lush green healthy growth so a bit concerned 

Cheers dean 

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## CooKieS (20 Mar 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Yeah i think so mate obviously i want to see lush green healthy growth so a bit concerned
> 
> Cheers dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk



that’s how the old leaves often looks after an big trim, because they haven’t’ had much light.

just wait for the new growth and it will look nice again, next time you could replant the tops to avoid that look.


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## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

Was going to say did you replant any stem tops


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## Deano3 (20 Mar 2020)

CooKieS said:


> that’s how the old leaves often looks after an big trim, because they haven’t’ had much light.
> 
> just wait for the new growth and it will look nice again, next time you could replant the tops to avoid that look.


Thanks for that so thats just growth thats died off due to the trim ? 

What is the best method, do you trim to length you want say half way and replant stems or do you trim a lot lower near the bottom and allow to grow up to height you want?

Thanks dean

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## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

It's more than likely the lack of light they where getting near the bottom as it had over grown a little so the bottom leaves where not getting the light they required if you take the tops of the stems you trim about 1 inch (2_3cm) and push them back in to the plant growth no need to put in to the soil it will make it look more bushy and hide the lower stems till they recover keep repeating this and you will be able to start to shape the plants as you wish my 45 I trimmed hard on Sunday as you know it was over grown due to laziness lol but replanted the tops and you cant tell it was trimmed 


Also are your siccors Sharpe if not it will just bruise the plants


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## CooKieS (21 Mar 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Thanks for that so thats just growth thats died off due to the trim ?
> 
> What is the best method, do you trim to length you want say half way and replant stems or do you trim a lot lower near the bottom and allow to grow up to height you want?
> 
> ...



I usually trim, then replant tops...after one week  to 2 weeks (depends of your setup) you’ll see that the replanted tops grows faster than the cutted ones, so one week after the global trimming I usually trim the replanted tops again.

this way you’ll achieve the same growth height with great density.


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## Deano3 (21 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> It's more than likely the lack of light they where getting near the bottom as it had over grown a little so the bottom leaves where not getting the light they required if you take the tops of the stems you trim about 1 inch (2_3cm) and push them back in to the plant growth no need to put in to the soil it will make it look more bushy and hide the lower stems till they recover keep repeating this and you will be able to start to shape the plants as you wish my 45 I trimmed hard on Sunday as you know it was over grown due to laziness lol but replanted the tops and you cant tell it was trimmed View attachment 132649
> Also are your siccors Sharpe if not it will just bruise the plants


Great advice there jay thanks so dont actually plant into the soil just into the plant mass, i will do that next time.

Dean

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## Deano3 (21 Mar 2020)

CooKieS said:


> I usually trim, then replant tops...after one week  to 2 weeks (depends of your setup) you’ll see that the replanted tops grows faster than the cutted ones, so one week after the global trimming I usually trim the replanted tops again.
> 
> this way you’ll achieve the same growth height with great density.


More great advice i like the logic in that 

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## Deano3 (24 Mar 2020)

Thinking of upgrading to a 60p  I would have to build a stand but plenty of time along as B&Q still got cutting service running.

Few questions would my oase 250 be strong enough

What twin star light is best, I want to be able to grow reds better than my current light.

Thanks dean

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## Siege (24 Mar 2020)

Oase Biomaster 250 will be fine. 

Twinstar 600S will be brilliant, or if you are feeling flush the ADA new AquaSky RGB for lights that will sit on a tank and bring out the reds!

will have the new ADA light on at AG this week (not that anyone will see it for a while) and it’ll be on the website.

I’ll add a review on here when it arrives if you want. I know Ryan did his but his room by own admission is the brightest room in the world!

S.


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## Deano3 (24 Mar 2020)

Siege said:


> Oase Biomaster 250 will be fine.
> 
> Twinstar 600S will be brilliant, or if you are feeling flush the ADA new AquaSky RGB for lights that will sit on a tank and bring out the reds!
> 
> ...


Think ada may be bit expensive but hopefully the 60p and 600s will work well together 

Also happy the 250 will be enough for the 60p that will save some money

Feel exited now as will be much easier scaping the 60p then swapping everything over.

Also need dimentions again to build a stand so will see if can find them from last time.

Thanks mate and also feel free to give a review as in now rush and maybe i could push to the ada 

Dean

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## Siege (24 Mar 2020)

Twinstar 600S will be fantastic!


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## Jayefc1 (24 Mar 2020)

All that nice wood and more room to play with sounds like the perfect plan mate I have the 350 on my 60p and the 600s the light is a good combo think the 250 will work I just like the extra flow


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## CooKieS (24 Mar 2020)

You’ll definitively need an chihiros vivid 2 or the new wrgb2 to get good reds and greens 

for the filter, jbl or eheim are classic choices.


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## Deano3 (24 Mar 2020)

Would be better if i could keep the same filter so a bit cheaper, and will start buying bits once payed and hopefully my next 4 days i can crack on with building the stand. and exactly plenty of wood to play with 

And cookies the vivid makes amazing colours on your scape its simply stunning

Thanks for the help guys.
Dean

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## CooKieS (24 Mar 2020)

Don’t get me wrong the twinstar S serie is an good light too, but as you already own the E, the difference won’t be extraordinary


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## Jayefc1 (24 Mar 2020)

I have to disagree @ cookies running both lights and the s is whole lot of difference IMO


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## Deano3 (24 Mar 2020)

Thanks guys i will have a look at the prices of various lights and maybe even go have a look at horizon aquatics as he had a good few in there and see what will be best option.

Anyone have the 60p stand diagrams handy ?

Dean

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## Deano3 (31 Mar 2020)

Hi everyone hope everyone is doing well and not too demented cooked up in the house.

Tank doing ok however getting some algae issues you can see in the pic this its staghorn so going to try up the maintenance.

Should i be spot dosing you think with liquid carbon.

Also changed co2 diffuer to intank for a change as sick of the cloudy look


Thanks dean 










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## Deano3 (9 Apr 2020)

Quick update still getting staghorn algae i think ? Any ideas i am cleaning the pre filter every 5 days or so and water change the same here is some pictures.

Sure my buce is growing so happy about that also my co2 now is only 1-2 bps so lower than previously had it and everything going well and ticking over nicely bar the algae issue.

Dean







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## dw1305 (9 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 
Plant health looks pretty good, so I'd probably just carry on the way you are and see what happens. 

cheers Darrel


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## Deano3 (9 Apr 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Plant health looks pretty good, so I'd probably just carry on the way you are and see what happens.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Cheers darrel i will mate, i will remove that leaf you can see in pic as snapped anyway and have been removing bad leaves when doing water change.

Thanks again
Dean

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## hypnogogia (29 Apr 2020)

Deano3 said:


> If anyone does know the ppi of the carbon filters that would be great but will watch when get home.



They’re 60ppi, much too fine as a prefilter, unless you want to service it often.  I use the orange ones (30ppi) and they are good to leave for a couple of weeks in my set up.


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## Deano3 (29 Apr 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> They’re 60ppi, much too fine as a prefilter, unless you want to service it often.  I use the orange ones (30ppi) and they are good to leave for a couple of weeks in my set up.


I went for orrange ones and working great thanks anyway mate

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