# Kessler spots or Echotec radiam xr15fw



## jonny.j (12 Dec 2015)

Hi  just got my new tank Friday and going green for first time!  Tank is 7/2/2ft and had open top because was thinking spots over top!

starting as low tek  but may go high later on after got my feet wet"

have looked at Kessler 160 spots"  lot of guys using these!  your thorts on these please!

or  I like the look and controls of  Echotec radiam  xr15 fw  freshwater! 

whot you guys think  and would 2  units be ok to start on low tek tank of 7/2/2ft  tank


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## alto (12 Dec 2015)

For light intensity & distribution curves, no one beats Sanjay Joshi's articles over on Advanced Aquarist - he's reviewed most of the commercially available LED's
(most review units are marine version but intensity curves will be similar for the freshwater versions, also note that some companies just build "full spectrum" lamps with user controlled spectra)

I run 2 Kessil A160's over a 90cm x 45cm tank, so if you intend the same on a much larger tank, your planted areas will need to be focused beneath the lamps.

I'd suggest the A360's instead if you want to try 2 lamps, then install lamps at a good height above the water surface ...

You might also look for LED's that offer a wider lens (120 on Kessil & Ecotech Radion) , as I recall there is also a 160 option - some lights allow exchangeable "pucks" & lens so you might check what's available locally: go out & look at these lamps in person.


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## jonny.j (12 Dec 2015)

thanks alto"  did look on Ecotech  web site and the freshwater led  xr15fw"  and with the mounting bracket for the unit"  its 7inch from water surface!  and has light spread of 34 inch"  so was thinking 2 of these units!  the  Kessler have a spread of only 14 inch so iv read"


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## alto (12 Dec 2015)

jonny.j said:


> Ecotech web site and the freshwater led xr15fw" and with the mounting bracket for the unit" its 7inch from water surface! and has light spread of 34 inch"


this rather depends on what you consider "light"
If you look at the PAR diagrams in the linked article above - this is for the Ecotech Radion XR30W (you can think of this as 2 XR15's re similar "pucks" are mounted in a single unit)
- substrate level PAR if 24 inch water, ranges from 0-50 up to 250-300, this is measured 18" from the "centre" of the light unit 


Having seen both Kessler A160W & Ecotech Radion XR15FW in action, I've no idea what


jonny.j said:


> Kessler have a spread of only 14 inch


this might be in relation to 

If you search, you can find marine PAR value curves for both Kessler A160 & Radion XR15 ... despite the apparent higher running wattage of the latter, independent reviews don't reflect the expected higher light intensities, both cover similar surface areas as they use similar LED & lens technology ... ie don't believe everything certain companies say ... or don't say 

You can certainly begin with 2 lamps & see how things progress, just be realistic about performance expectations - that 24in water depth significantly impacts substrate PAR, stick with high intensity LEDs regardless of lamp unit manufacturer


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## jonny.j (12 Dec 2015)

Id buy a nail if the car dealer said it was a minter  yes companies like me bud" 
just wont to get the lighting right for tank if im spending top money on LEDs 
would adding few T5s help plants out of main spot beams?


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## alto (14 Dec 2015)

You might begin with a scape similar to what Martin has done in his journal
Two sisters

It's easy to place the LED's centred over the end planted areas, there will still be light in the middle of the tank, just "shaded"; layout leaves swimming room for fish, & rocks will protect the planted areas from fish _play_

It's also somewhat more economical to get these defined planted areas started with high density planitng, then as plants need trimming etc, you can use these to expand the planted areas IF that seems a good idea with fish activity etc 

Given tank & fish size, choose larger leafed plants such as
Anubias barteri var. coffeefolia, var. barteri, var. angustifloia, var. caladiifolia  - these can all be planted on those middle "edges" as they'll appreciate the "shade"
Crypt usteriana
C x willisii is a nice sturdy crypt (less susceptible to crypt "melt" than some others)
Crinum calamistratum has a relatively "sturdy" leaf but tends to be (very) slow growing & often more $$ to purchase
If you can find V spiralis 'Tiger' - it's a stunning plant (& I couldn't kill it for anything )
Hygrophila corymbosa roots much stronger than Ludwigia sp, it will often get nice golden & reddish shading to the leafs under good conditions
L meeboldii 'Red' should give some nice color
Microsorum pteropus varieties of course - again these do well with more shaded light
Echinodorus ‘Barthii’ is a beautiful sword that does well in large aquariums (& generally arrives from Tropica as a substantial plant - even in just the regular size)

Once you're confident in plant care & fish reactions, consider more focus on "carpet" plants - again given your tank height, I'd choose E tenellus over some of the shorter plant species (it also roots very well! ) - it's a lovely plant that can range from shades of green to quite red.

You might also look at emerse cultivating some plants to extend the pots that you buy - there are some setups detailed on ukaps: these can also be as simple as a plastic tray (with cover to maintain humidity) on a windowsill.

When it comes to adding more lighting, some HOT5's are fine - easy to place some 24inch versions front to back on the tank, but for esthetics I'd likely choose a single LED system & just add a third lamp eventually



(Mick.Dk gave excellent advice - I agree with his assessment of Sagittaria subulata roots system ... even when filled in with connecting roots, it still pulls up rather easily)


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## micheljq (14 Dec 2015)

jonny.j said:


> Id buy a nail if the car dealer said it was a minter  yes companies like me bud"
> just wont to get the lighting right for tank if im spending top money on LEDs
> would adding few T5s help plants out of main spot beams?



Hi, did you consider the TMC Aquarays, they are made in U.K.  In U.S. AAP does sells them.  They are not cheap but at least they give 2 years of warranty, 5 years if you register the light on their site.

I did purchase my first Grobeam 600, installed since december 4th, too early to say the results.  My tank is 24" high, like yours but 3 feet long.  I run  it with a Beamswork 2nd gen, and one Finnex Ray 2 DS 7000K.

Michel.


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## jonny.j (14 Dec 2015)

Thanks alto"  that's a good bit of info on the placement of the 2 led-spots iv got!  Can go higher light plants each end and keep centre open like Two sisters setup ( but would like to fill in open gravel area) as like a full green carpet on bottom of tank!   Don't think I could have all that sharp pointed wood as the fish would defo damage themselves"
How did he plant those plants into all that rock?


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## jonny.j (14 Dec 2015)

micheljq said:


> Hi, did you consider the TMC Aquarays, they are made in U.K.  In U.S. AAP does sells them.  They are not cheap but at least they give 2 years of warranty, 5 years if you register the light on their site.
> 
> I did purchase my first Grobeam 600, installed since december 4th, too early to say the results.  My tank is 24" high, like yours but 3 feet long.  I run  it with a Beamswork 2nd gen, and one Finnex Ray 2 DS 7000K.
> 
> Michel.


Got the 2  kessil know buddy"  will add another if these go ok at each end of tank    Lot of guys use those Finnex on youtube!  where they from?  states?


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## alto (15 Dec 2015)

jonny.j said:


> tank! Don't think I could have all that sharp pointed wood as the fish would defo damage themselves"


Nope, if you're going to add wood it needs to be this sort 

Martin's tank is just a template to show how nice a tank can look with just the ends planted 
Plants grow fine in amongst all that rock - you just need the space to insert plant stem/rhizome etc into the substrate between rock ... look at how alex08 has positioned plants among wood in this layout
The rocks (or wood) will limit fish access to the plants so there should be less uprooting - again this planted tank + big fish concept will be more likely to succeed if you plan on running the tank with plants only for some weeks (or months if no CO2 - expect much slower growth without CO2). Once tank is well established with plants, then introduce fish.

When setting up the tank, just place Tropica GS wherever you want plants (eventually), then EC; if you end up with areas that will be planted later, you can protect the substrate by placing (easily removed) stones (large pebbles would be fine) or wood


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## Clint Hewitt (15 Dec 2015)

4 OR 5 50W LED FLOODLIGHTS


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## Martin in Holland (15 Dec 2015)

jonny.j said:


> How did he plant those plants into all that rock?


Easy....bucephalandra is just squeezed between rocks or glued to some wood, they attache fast, other plants are tight to smaller stones and just placed on top of bigger rocks and behind the rocks there is enough space to have substrate which stem plants are planted in.


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## micheljq (15 Dec 2015)

jonny.j said:


> Got the 2  kessil know buddy"  will add another if these go ok at each end of tank    Lot of guys use those Finnex on youtube!  where they from?  states?



Finnex is from states yes.  I have one Finnex but i cannot say i am impressed with the plant's response.

Michel.


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## jonny.j (15 Dec 2015)

Martin in China said:


> Easy....bucephalandra is just squeezed between rocks or glued to some wood, they attache fast, other plants are tight to smaller stones and just placed on top of bigger rocks and behind the rocks there is enough space to have substrate which stem plants are planted in.


Really looks good how you done that martin"  something different than a wall of plants"  could you use more colourful  bushy plants like G.rotala wallichii ?


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## jonny.j (15 Dec 2015)

micheljq said:


> Finnex is from states yes.  I have one Finnex but i cannot say i am impressed with the plant's response.
> 
> Michel.


was going to say the yanks cannot do eneything good"  But they do a top job at blowing things up


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