# Bedside Aquarium



## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

Hi all. I'm finally ready to set up my Ciano 60 aquarium I got some months ago. I can't wait to lie back, relax and sleep with the fishes 






Me and my partner have reinforced a Hombase unit (similar to Ikea Kallax) with 18mm plywood top and back and covered with contact paper to prevent any splashes ruining the stand.





The filter is quite bulky but I'm hoping to have a lot of plants crammed in here which will cover it up! Depending how sensitive my OH is to the noise we might not use it anyway but it does hide the heater nicely.

It has one 8W LED strip, and I've bought the additional 8W plant LED strip to go with it. Now, I need to sort out my digital timers. I'd like to be able to see into the aquarium when I get up in the morning for at least an hour or so, and then again in the evening when I'll be home from work. How would you guys set it up? 7-9am in the morning, and then a solid block from 5-10pm? I can time both lights separately so it doesn't always have to be so bright. Thanks for any input!


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## Tim Harrison (13 Feb 2019)

Looks nice. Good job it has a lid being so close to your bed, otherwise you might have found yourself sleeping with your fish...literally rather than figuratively...
A split photoperiod is fine, I'd split it as evenly as possible, but whatever suits your lifestyle will be fine. Just make sure the total is no more than 6 hrs/day to start with until your plants have become established and your tank matured. And then you can gradually increase it to around 8hrs if you want to.


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> Looks nice, good job it has a lid being so close to your bed, otherwise you might find yourself sleeping with your fish...literally rather than figuratively...
> A split photoperiod is fine, I'd split it as evenly as possible, but whatever suits your lifestyle will be fine. Just make sure the total is no more than 6 hrs/day to start with until your plants have become established and your tank matured. And then you can gradually increase it to around 8hrs if you want to.



Haha! If the fish are anything like my cat they'd probably just splash water at me until I got up and fed them if I didn't have a lid 

Great thank you! I will just put them on 6 hours to start and increase slowly as the tank matures  at least I have the ability to half the brightness if I want to experiment with extending the photoperiod without triggering algae.


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

Uh-oh! Who designed this light's plug  are there any timers this would still work with?


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## sparkyweasel (13 Feb 2019)

You could use a two-way adaptor as a spacer between the two.
hth


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

It's plugged into an extension lead, will it cause any issues going through that then the timer, then the adapter? You hear horror stories about these things haha


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## tam (13 Feb 2019)

I would pop them on a timer separately, so one comes on/goes off a little before/after the other. That will increase/decrease light gradually and is nicer to wake up to that a sudden brilliant glow. I would split it so you have a morning and evening light period so it's on when you are there to see it.

Some timers have a flatter face/timer unit above the socket so you should be able to find ones to fit the plug.

Double check the tank instructions to see if you are meant to use a mat under it. It doesn't look like it's sitting flat but that might just be the trim.

You can fill the tank and run the filter to how the noise is, there are small sponges that would work as an alternative or you could go filterless. The filter (or not) choice will influence how you arrange what you put inside so I'd test that with a few night now before you set it up properly.


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

tam said:


> I would pop them on a timer separately, so one comes on/goes off a little before/after the other. That will increase/decrease light gradually and is nicer to wake up to that a sudden brilliant glow. I would split it so you have a morning and evening light period so it's on when you are there to see it.
> 
> Some timers have a flatter face/timer unit above the socket so you should be able to find ones to fit the plug.
> 
> ...



Hi Tam, yeah I was thinking of doing the white light mostly, and the pink light an hour after and then an hour before the white light goes off? Or even less than that? I'm not a huge fan of the pinkish colour personally but someone said it would be better for the plant growth.

The glass is actually suspended, so stops a few cms before the stand but supported by the rim if that makes sense? I'm sure the stand isn't 100% flat so would getting a mat help or not really if the glass isn't touching it anyway?

Think I'll fill it up tonight and test then thanks!


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## tam (13 Feb 2019)

Probably doesn't need a mat then, it should say in the instructions if it does 

Pink might look ok when combined with the white? If not you can always swap out for a second white or a blue if you prefer that in future.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Feb 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> It's plugged into an extension lead, will it cause any issues going through that then the timer, then the adapter? You hear horror stories about these things haha



No, the problems come from people overloading their extensions, you won't do that. You've got an 8W lamp, two if you get the extra one, a filter, probably about6 or 8W, heater maybe 100W. Add a bedside lamp and its still well under 200W. A lot of timers are rated at 2000W, others at 3000. Extension leads and two-ways adaptors normally 3000W. So you've got plenty of spare capacity.


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## Michael Cosgrove (13 Feb 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> Uh-oh! Who designed this light's plug  are there any timers this would still work with?



Hi @Miss-Pepper,

What type of connector is at the "light" end of the power cable? The connector, if any, that plugs in to the light itself or that joins the light's power cable to the power supply's cable from the plug. If you don't know the name, a pic of the two ends disconnected but visible. The reason for asking is I have bought a timer which fits into the power cable instead of the standard "push into power plug" type like in your pic. If your connector is the same, I can provide a link. Then you don't need to rely on the bulkier ones and the power supply can go straight into the muti-plug / socket.

Regards

Michael


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

tam said:


> Probably doesn't need a mat then, it should say in the instructions if it does
> 
> Pink might look ok when combined with the white? If not you can always swap out for a second white or a blue if you prefer that in future.



Double checked and couldn't see anything about that, so hoping that's all good! Pink looks fine with the white, and it is growing (heh) on me for a night time colour actually. Does it matter which one is on longer than the other? I tried to get the hum of the filter as quiet as possible, but so far has approval but we'll sleep on it and see what we think. Weirdly the lid of the filter made it louder, I guess more vibrations so will have to play with it and see what can be done as I don't want fish to end up inside it!



sparkyweasel said:


> No, the problems come from people overloading their extensions, you won't do that. You've got an 8W lamp, two if you get the extra one, a filter, probably about6 or 8W, heater maybe 100W. Add a bedside lamp and its still well under 200W. A lot of timers are rated at 2000W, others at 3000. Extension leads and two-ways adaptors normally 3000W. So you've got plenty of spare capacity.



Great, thank you for that clarification and solution!


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @Miss-Pepper,
> 
> What type of connector is at the "light" end of the power cable? The connector, if any, that plugs in to the light itself or that joins the light's power cable to the power supply's cable from the plug. If you don't know the name, a pic of the two ends disconnected but visible. The reason for asking is I have bought a timer which fits into the power cable instead of the standard "push into power plug" type like in your pic. If your connector is the same, I can provide a link. Then you don't need to rely on the bulkier ones and the power supply can go straight into the muti-plug / socket.
> 
> ...


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## Michael Cosgrove (13 Feb 2019)

Hi @Miss-Pepper,

You'll need to check the size of the connector. Adapters are available from RS Components and probably others but be careful that you can get the right size and that they are compatible with your light unit before you buy anything. Also the one I bought came from China and cost £10 (I made an offer of £10.01 which was accepted). Here is the link. Other Ebay sellers are also available. These are the ones which were previously referred to as "Hinterfeld".

There are two types of these. I bought the "pro" version which allows for smooth phasing in / out the lights. There is also a standard one which steps the lighting up / down. They also have 8 time settings so you will probably be able to do your two light periods per day. I've not done a check on that but probably. 

If you're interested, I'll get you more details. I'm not the seller or connected in any way.

Regards

Michael


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## Miss-Pepper (13 Feb 2019)

Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @Miss-Pepper,
> 
> You'll need to check the size of the connector. Adapters are available from RS Components and probably others but be careful that you can get the right size and that they are compatible with your light unit before you buy anything. Also the one I bought came from China and cost £10 (I made an offer of £10.01 which was accepted). Here is the link. Other Ebay sellers are also available. These are the ones which were previously referred to as "Hinterfeld".
> 
> ...



Thanks Michael! Does the pro version dim all LED? Are all LEDs dimmable? I might have to upgrade at least one of the timers for the phase element alone.


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## Michael Cosgrove (13 Feb 2019)

Hi @Miss-Pepper,



Miss-Pepper said:


> Does the pro version dim all LED?



I would say that it will dim all lights that can be connected (DC connection of 5.5mm) and fit within the limits it has (36V / 100W max). The "DC connection" has a more correct name (I don't know what that is) but it does look like what you have. They come in different sizes. This one fits my light without using an adapter. I saw a video where it was used with a Twinstar LED but needed a (cheap and small) adapter to allow it to fit. You'd need to check what size your connectors are and that you can get an adapter.



Miss-Pepper said:


> Are all LEDs dimmable?



I don't know myself for sure. My layman's feeling is "yes" but I know that some light bulbs you buy for home use are not dimmer able while others are. I knew my own was before buying and was prepared to take the risk given the low cost. For me, the reason to buy a dimmer was to be fish friendly with a phased sunrise instead of the timer switching the light on at the full strength it was to be used at. I also want to use my light at lower than full strength. Or at least have the ability to start low and increase intensity over time. A bonus side effect was that I don't need to use a power plug timer so have more space on my multi plug / in my cabinet and also less risk of a failure / fire starting. My old timer was getting warm but I only discovered this when reorganizing my power cables in readiness for my new setup. Had I not started that, I don't know if it would ever have caused an issue... I may be preventing a problem that may never have happened but I prefer to have the peace of mind.

If you have two lights then you'll need two timers unless one power cable can supply both lights - probably not.

Are you in the UK? If so, I'm in Kettering but travel regularly to Grimsby. If you want to get a feel for this item / check if it plugs into your light, I can easily show you or let you borrow it to try. I'm a few weeks away from needing to do my setup.

If you buy one (or two) of these, you' need to allow 10-20 or so days for delivery.

Regards

Michael


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## Michael Cosgrove (13 Feb 2019)

Here are some previous posts related to these dimmers:



Michael Cosgrove said:


> @SteveMcD, You're welcome. I know you are not keep on buying from China but there are good reports about the controller that Hinterfeld used to sell. I saw this in one of @George Farmer's videos where he was showing Steve tanks at home & maintenance program:
> Go to about 4min for the bit about the controller. In that vid he had them controlling a Twinstar 600S (with a small / cheap adapter) but also mentioned the Twinstar 600E which does not need an adapter. I can't say with 100% certainty but it looks like they are the same as the ones still available from China on Ebay from a few different sellers. Judging from the ebay pics only , they appear to fit the Chihiros A Series without the need for an adapter. They are a little cheaper than the Chihiros Commander, take an estimated two to three weeks to arrive but only cost about £10 - £14 incl delivery. At that price, they are below the duty and import VAT thresholds. I've made an offer on one (S2 Pro model) and will see how that progresses. Shout if you want more details.
> 
> Regards
> Michael






Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @SteveMcD, Yes that is the one. Please don't take the item location and delivery timeframe literally! The actual location is likely to be China and it may not make it within the estimated 10days. I chose a different seller who seemed to be more transparent with a Shenzen location. The one I chose was offered for £10.99 and also had the "Make an offer" button. I did so for £10.01 which was accepted (incl shipping). I see now that others are listed below £10!! Mine has been shipped albeit that the advertised delivery of 6th - 15th Feb (2 - 3 weeks) was changed *after purchase* to around "4 - 6 weeks for the UK". It's not a problem for me as I still have some items to sort out before I set my tank up anyway. Having said that, I could not see any of these that I was confident as being located in the UK so as long as you're not in a rush, you're ok with buying from abroad.
> 
> I can't remember if I mentioned, but whichever one you buy, I went for the "S2-Pro". The S2 does stepped dimming and the pro does a gradient. For me, the main goal is to avoid startling the livestock and I think gradient is better for that. Plus also being able to dim without using the full strength will probably be necessary in my planned setup. At least that is the plan!





Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @SteveMcD, This is just an update to say my S2-Pro controller arrived today. Much earlier than any of their projected dates which is always a good thing. Tested tonight and works fine. Was not exactly as I had expected but simple enough to set up and does a good enough job for what I need. The only issue which is not as expected is how quickly it does the sunrise and sunset "phasing". I thought if I set a ten minute (just for testing purposes) sunrise, it would evenly divide the period up and divide by the difference between start and end intensity. It gets the start time right as well as the start and end intensity but did the "phasing" in much less time. The same with the "sunset". It might be me making a mistake with the settings. Having said that, it does the job I bought it for so I don't have complaints and will play with it a bit more in a couple of weeks when I plan to do the tank setup.
> 
> Another good thing is I can do away with a power plug timer which is better from a safety point of view. And are much bulkier than I like too. So, a + I had not planned for originally.
> 
> Also, plugged in perfectly to the Chihiros' cable.



Those explain a bit more detail on my own experience so far. Also, the following post might be useful:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...r-add-sunrise-sunset-to-your-led-light.53052/

Regards

Michael


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## Miss-Pepper (15 Feb 2019)

Thanks Michael, I've ordered one from another e-bay seller (your link was out of stock) for just under £10, so worth a try! If it fits I'll get another one.

Tested the filter, and while there is a definite white noise kind of hum we've both decided it's tolerable! I woke up a few times in the night, as I always do, and couldn't hear it at all until I thought about the fact I couldn't hear it haha. I know an eheim external would be quieter than that internal though, so if anyone needs absolute silence I don't recommend Ciano's. I also have a few gripes with the tank itself, I noticed quite a deep surface scratch on the back when I painted it, but I've just noticed one right at the front today and a smudgey silicone(?) mark on the side panel. Bit disappointed but we bought the tank in October last year! So not sure they'll believe I've only just set it up and it's got a scratch on it  You get what you pay for and this was pretty cheap and cheerful. It fits the bedroom's decor though, and I'll probably not notice these things after a while! 

Anyway, time to play with my hardscape!


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## tam (15 Feb 2019)

Doesn't matter which light is on longer than the other - it's only for your viewing/less sudden morning wake ups so whichever looks good to you.

Vibration is where you get noise so playing around can help it, usually if you press on something and that changes it in a good way then you can fix it with something heavy or adding a little rubber trim etc. depending what's moving against what. I don't know what the filter inside looks like but if the top doesn't work then jamming it with a sponge is pretty good at keeping fish out of things.

You'll find the little nicks less noticeable once you've got exciting contents to look at  Best thing is to enjoy it, learn lots and then in a year or two you can always upgrade to something fancier when you know more about what you want it to do and then you have a spare to put else where


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## Miss-Pepper (15 Feb 2019)

Well I had a complete change of heart about the filter! I started building up the substrate and it became clear the inlet was going to be too low down  I tried moving it to the right...but then the plugs didn't reach to the sockets soooo I have just removed it! I think I will get a small nano corner filter, or similar, just to add flow to the aquarium and instead rely more on the plant's ability to filter the water.













I've played around with my piece of spider wood and dragon stones every which way haha (I have more stones if needed) but if anyone has any recommendations to improve it please go ahead! I've sloped it up so much so I can see more of the back from low down but it has taken up quite a lot of room! I want quite a thick 'jungley' planting on the left and thinning out to the right and front so some of the rocks might get hidden anyway. Thanks for any help guys!


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## Miss-Pepper (17 Feb 2019)

I'd love some feedback if anyone has any? In the mean time here's a picture of my pogostemon erectus I've been growing emersed and it's first flower!






I've been researching plants for this tank, and I'm thinking cryptocorynes, java fern, moss, anubais, bucephalandra, helanthium tenellum, hairgrass, and stuff like that. I'd like to use some of the p.erectus if it'll survive without CO2? And I really like the look of bolbitis, but again not sure if it would survive. Anything similar that's easier?


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## tam (17 Feb 2019)

All good choices. Bolbitis is fine without CO2


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## Miss-Pepper (17 Feb 2019)

Well I managed to get a Dennerle nano corner filter from my LFS after looking online it seemed like a small and quiet choice. Also a plus it's shrimp safe as I would like some. I put the filter and heater in where I plan to have dense plants to hide them. I did notice though that I didn't think I'd left enough decent planting space at the back of the hardscape. I have since pulled it forward, trying not to change much but it happened haha. I think I count brush sand around these rocks and fiddle forever and never be satisfied  ah well.

Before




After


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## tam (17 Feb 2019)

Did you check the minimum water level on the heater? The top looks a bit tight. Depending on your stocking and house temperature you might be able to do away without the heater. Shrimp are quite happy at room temp, for example. Or you can get nano sized heaters.

You'll fiddle again once you get to planting and still won't be happy till they grow in and it finally comes together


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## Miss-Pepper (17 Feb 2019)

tam said:


> Did you check the minimum water level on the heater? The top looks a bit tight. Depending on your stocking and house temperature you might be able to do away without the heater. Shrimp are quite happy at room temp, for example. Or you can get nano sized heaters.
> 
> You'll fiddle again once you get to planting and still won't be happy till they grow in and it finally comes together



The minimum water level is the silver strip just above where the temperatures are, so it is tight but 'ok'. I might look into getting a nano heater. Any recommendations? I wish I had gone down the custom route now seeing as equipment is getting replaced anyway  I don't want to take the heater out entirely as I'd like some fish as well including corydoras habrosus and maybe boraras brigittae. 20C is the lowest they'd be happy, and while my bedroom is normally that or over, it's not stable because I just put the heating on as and when I fancy it haha.

I suppose you're right about not being happy until the plants fill in!


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## tam (17 Feb 2019)

I think Aquael or Dennerle do a small black one. Keep the spare bits, never know when they might come in useful.

I have habrosus - they are very cute little guys. Both of those would be fine with cherry shrimp.


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## akwarium (17 Feb 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> Well I had a complete change of heart about the filter! I started building up the substrate and it became clear the inlet was going to be too low down  I tried moving it to the right...but then the plugs didn't reach to the sockets soooo I have just removed it! I think I will get a small nano corner filter, or similar, just to add flow to the aquarium and instead rely more on the plant's ability to filter the water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks nice and I like the positioning of the wood. I would recommend to move the entire hardscape closer to the front,  I think there is to much space in front of the hardscape and to little behind it.


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## Miss-Pepper (17 Feb 2019)

akwarium said:


> It looks nice and I like the positioning of the wood. I would recommend to move the entire hardscape closer to the front,  I think there is to much space in front of the hardscape and to little behind it.



Thanks for your feedback akwarium, further forward still as I have done it a little?


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## Andrew Butler (17 Feb 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> The minimum water level is the silver strip just above where the temperatures are, so it is tight but 'ok'. I might look into getting a nano heater. Any recommendations? I wish I had gone down the custom route now seeing as equipment is getting replaced anyway  I don't want to take the heater out entirely as I'd like some fish as well including corydoras habrosus and maybe boraras brigittae. 20C is the lowest they'd be happy, and while my bedroom is normally that or over, it's not stable because I just put the heating on as and when I fancy it haha.


Turn the heater horizontal down near the substrate; you probably won't even see it once your planted up.


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## Miss-Pepper (17 Feb 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> Turn the heater horizontal down near the substrate; you probably won't even see it once your planted up.


 
I couldn't quite get it to fit horizontally as the wood was in the way, but following advice I think I'm going to pull the whole hardscape forward again and do exactly that! It's been a number of years since I've had pygmy corydoras but they won't burn themselves on the heater if they're able to rest on it will they? Worth getting a guard?


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## Andrew Butler (18 Feb 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> they won't burn themselves on the heater if they're able to rest on it will they? Worth getting a guard?


would you put your hand on a radiator if it was too hot?


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## tayloss (18 Feb 2019)

That’s why I decided to remove the heater altogether and use a external filter, but I would use a guard after seeing the effects of heater burns on my Ottos 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miss-Pepper (18 Feb 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> would you put your hand on a radiator if it was too hot?


I'd like to think I have a slight intellectual advantage over a fish  but I get your point. I've seen some nasty heater burns on discus but maybe that's due to how high the heater is running. I've put it horizontally and high enough off the substrate that they couldn't sit underneath it and get stuck etc and can barely see it now thank you.


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## Miss-Pepper (18 Feb 2019)

Well the shop I went to today didn't have much, I went with one pot of in-vitro AquaFleur elocharis parvula and one pot of helanthium tenellum. I was surprised at how much hair grass I got! Possibly too much as I did want some visible sand haha. But the h.tenellum I possibly could have done with two pots, we'll see how well it fills in. I already had the java moss but just plopped about half a pot on the wood. I don't want too much as I want to add java fern and anubias to that wood as well. No background plants as of yet, I'm waiting to order some online. I think I'll try a DSM method just as a fun experiment.


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## Miss-Pepper (24 Feb 2019)

I finally got my order of plants from Watermarque, it got sent to the post office for a few days but surprisingly everything was just fine! I used two pots of cryptocoryne wendtii green and brown mixed, two pots of balansae, and half a pot of lucens as I was running out of planting room haha. I got two bucephalandra 'godzilla' and used a pot of anubias nana bonsai but I thought 'bonsai' would be smaller? Did I get sent something else? Then I just chucked in a few cuts from my emersed cultures. It is pretty packed in there from my eyes, I hope everything has room to grow and flourish!













Using a scrap of bubble wrap to keep some of the humidity in but the moss is drying out quite frequently, so I'm spraying it a lot and getting some lovely wood mould


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## ralfred (24 Feb 2019)

Did you soak the wood first?  It might float when you finally flood it if not (speaking from experience!)


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## Miss-Pepper (24 Feb 2019)

ralfred said:


> Did you soak the wood first?  It might float when you finally flood it if not (speaking from experience!)


I've not soaked it no, I'll be doing a dry start for a few weeks and was hoping it would absorb some moisture haha but probably wishful thinking. I think I'll have to use a rock to keep it down to start without crushing anything!


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## ralfred (24 Feb 2019)

Yeah that's the next best thing!


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## Miss-Pepper (4 Mar 2019)

Well not much to report in terms of plant growth yet. A few crypt leaves have melted off, as expected, but most of the plants remain as I put them! At least nothing has flat out died though, and the moss is starting to come back especially under the shade of the bucephalandra and anubias.





My little timer arrived today as well, good and bad news! It fits in one end but the plug end doesn't fit back onto the timer pin  @Michael Cosgrove could you suggest a way to make this work still?


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## Jayefc1 (4 Mar 2019)

I think it's a connector from eBay pretty sure that there is a thread here about it


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## Michael Cosgrove (5 Mar 2019)

Hi @Miss-Pepper,

Am I right in saying that the male connector is slightly too big in the centre (pin) for the female which is the power lead? I think it is just a matter of working out the correct size. I'll see if I can measure mine and will come back to you on this today. I recall seeing "5.5mm" mentioned but don't know (yet) how that is measured.

As @Jayefc1 wrote, it should be possible to get one off of eBay. I heard @Siege mention "CPC" in one of the videos he was in. RS Components will also probably have them.

Chat soon.

Regards
Michael


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## dw1305 (5 Mar 2019)

Hi all, 





Michael Cosgrove said:


> "5.5mm" mentioned but don't know (yet) how that is measured.


On the male connectors 5.5.mm is the length of the barrel, the diameter of the central cavity is either 2.1 or 2.5 mm.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison (5 Mar 2019)

I think this is what you need off eBay. Although it's gone up in price since I bought mine, from 99p to £1.00


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## Miss-Pepper (5 Mar 2019)

Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @Miss-Pepper,
> 
> Am I right in saying that the male connector is slightly too big in the centre (pin) for the female which is the power lead? I think it is just a matter of working out the correct size. I'll see if I can measure mine and will come back to you on this today. I recall seeing "5.5mm" mentioned but don't know (yet) how that is measured.
> 
> ...



You are right yes the pin is slightly too big! Thank you I wasn't sure what to search to get anything to come up, I'm determined to make this thing work now so I can have a nice sunrise to sunset.



Tim Harrison said:


> I think this is what you need off eBay. Although it's gone up in price since I bought mine, from 99p to £1.00


Outrageous  haha thank you for the link!


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## Michael Cosgrove (5 Mar 2019)

Hi @Miss-Pepper, firstly, apologies for naming the gender of the connectors wrongly! What appeared obvious to me was back to front! 

The learned member @Tim Harrison got the right answer for you despite that!! And very kindly did not point out my mistake.

I've been learning a lot more than I thought was possible about these connectors today! 

I've learnt that the measurements referred to as 2.1mm or 2.5mm are the thickness (what Darrel (@dw1305) was referring to), inner diameter of the *hole* in the male connector and diameter of the *pin* inside the female socket. The measurement of 5.5mm mentioned in the dimmer's website / documents is the outer diameter of the metal part of the male plug and the inner diameter of the female socket. 

The female connector (what you have on the power input end of the dimmer) is the one which has the hole with the pin in it. This is also referred to as a "socket" on some websites and also "input". The pin in the dimmer's socket is 2.5mm. For that you need a male 2.5mm output "plug" or "connector".
The male bit (aka "plug" or "connector") is the one that goes into the socket and has a hole in the centre. This is the bit at the output end of your power supply. Your connector being smaller than 2.5mm will likely be 2.1mm. For that, you need a 2.1mm socket which is why it won't fit the dimmer as the pin in the middle of the socket on the dimmer is too thick.

So, your adapter will need to have a 2.1mm female socket on the one end to receive the power supply's cable and a 2.5mm male connector on the other side to fit into the dimmer's cable.




(Picture from CPC-Farnell)

I've only used this pic as it's easy to see both ends in one image. The male end is on the left with the yellow plastic bit and the female on the right with the pin in the hole. 

So, long story short, the ebay link that Tim provided is the correct item. If you're happy to wait, but want to take advantage of the price - you will get 4 of them for £1 - then you can go ahead. However, if you are in more of a rush and are happy to pay a little more, you can find alternative from UK suppliers (your choice entirely):

CPC-Farnell have them but you'd pay around £7odd for two of them (if you still plan to have two light sets) or about £5 for one due to their handling charge. I expect that would be waived if you needed to buy a higher value of items from them but you probably don't? So, I've not provided the links but let me know if you want them.

On eBay, there are many available. Here is one UK supplier:

plugz2go: 2.1mm to 2.5mm converter @ £1.99 each but only 2-3 days for delivery.

So far, so good. That then gets your power cable all connected through to the dimmer...

What I've not found any assurance on is the other end of your dimmer. As the cable connects currently, it's not been mentioned as a problem but a thought occurred to me that it may not be a good connection. Can you tell if it is a "little loose". If you wiggle it, does it stay firm or can you feel it give a little? It may also need an adapter to make a proper connection. @Tim Harrison , can you comment on this? Or anyone else who knows about these things. Is the fact that a 5.5mm x 2.5mm male plug can insert into a 5.5mm x 2.1mm female sock a potential connection issue or is it fine?

If you do need the same sized connector, here is an adapter from the same eBay seller as mentioned above:

plugz2go: £1.99 as per the other one. This one takes the size from 2.5mm as per the dimmer's output back down to 2.1mm as per the light's input cable.

If you have any further questions, shout or if anyone else has more advice, it would be welcome.

Regards

Michael


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## Michael Cosgrove (5 Mar 2019)

dw1305 said:


> 5.5.mm is the length of the barrel



Hi @dw1305, I measured my dimmer's connectors and the length of the barrel was more than that.  So I did a bit of searching  and found out that the 5.5mm is the diameter of the barrel (OD on the male end and ID on the female end). See this from CPC-Farnell.

PS: I "discovered" emoji's today too!


----------



## dw1305 (5 Mar 2019)

Hi all,





Michael Cosgrove said:


> and found out that the 5.5mm is the diameter of the barrel (OD on the male end and ID on the female end). See this from CPC-Farnell.


That makes a lot more sense. Looking at them I can see that the barrel is longer than that. 

I had no idea there was such a range of PSU possibilities until I had to start trying to source cheaper power units for scientific balances, bench pH meters etc. Often the company will sell you a replacement for ~£70, but when it arrives you can find exactly the same unit on the WWW for less than a £10.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (6 Mar 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Often the company will sell you a replacement for ~£70,


That's what you get for being a "rich"lab


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## Miss-Pepper (6 Mar 2019)

Michael Cosgrove said:


> Hi @Miss-Pepper, firstly, apologies for naming the gender of the connectors wrongly! What appeared obvious to me was back to front!
> 
> The learned member @Tim Harrison got the right answer for you despite that!! And very kindly did not point out my mistake.
> 
> ...



Wow thank you so much for such a detailed and informative response! You're not the only one who's learned a lot hehe. This is why I love forums, people can follow this and see what problems I had and all the lovely members who told me how to fix it so they can overcome any similar problems themselves! I'm keen to get this working so I may pay a bit extra for UK, but I imagine I have at least 4 weeks of dry start to go through before this hair grass starts doing anything so I 'could' wait...

As far as the other end goes, I've just tested it and there is a slightly wiggle if I force it around but the original connection seems to have a similar give to it if I treat it the same. So, it feels well connected but if the device doesn't work after I get an adapting connector I at least know what to try next.


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## Miss-Pepper (15 Mar 2019)

Well the new connector works perfectly! I do get some 'flashing' from the LED at a very low brightness (under 5% I think), almost like lightning! Not sure if this is damaging the bulb?

Plants are slow but steady, finally getting some actual new shoots from the hairgrass!!  But sadly have lost 1 1/2 anubias plants due to mold. It wasn't very obvious, little white dots but the rhizome of my biggest cluster had to be chopped in half  it showed new growth on the 'safe part' so fingers crossed it recovers.


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## Jayefc1 (15 Mar 2019)

Looks really nice glad the connector works
Now sit back and enjoy oh plus a lil hard work but we'll worth it


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## Miss-Pepper (7 Apr 2019)

Sorry for such a big gap in the journal. I'd say it's been about 6 weeks now since I planted it up and started experimenting with the DSM. I just wanted to put in some updates and also mention what I'm doing on a daily basis to maintain it. It's been a good exercise in being patient...but it's nearly there now, as soon as the hairgrass fills out it'll be time to fill up!

I spray the aquarium down with a small pressure sprayer about 2-3 times a day, and attempt to keep the humidity in with some bubble wrap. I spray it so often as things are on a slope, the back plants get dry and so does the moss on the wood. This ensures nothing dries out too badly, but it does leave me with a puddle at the lowest point! Every few days I remove the puddle by soaking some kitchen paper in it, wringing it dry, and repeating. Very quick and doesn't disturb anything. I've been using tap water and tap water with a bit of flourish excel in the sprayer, no real rhyme or reason but the sand is obviously not providing any nutrients to plants like the hairgrass.









The background plants have filled in nicely, and the moss is doing well and anchoring itself to the wood. The ranunculus inundatus is doing really well, sending out far reaching runners and what looks like a new stalk everyday. 









I want to assume the hairgrass has been busy sorting out it's root system because all these shoots seem to have appeared overnight! I'm really hoping this is the start of it finally filling in between the clumps. I probably made the clumps too large, and it may need a more nutrient rich substrate to speed things along. 





All in all, I've enjoyed tending to my little humid box garden and watching as new leaves appear. However, I'd very much like to get some fish in here soon and watch it develop into an underwater jungle! Fingers crossed I don't have to wait another 6 weeks


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## Tim Harrison (7 Apr 2019)

Nice scape. The hairgrass clumps are fine size wise and will fill in soon enough. You can always add more if you want to speed up the process.


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## Miss-Pepper (7 Apr 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> Nice scape. The hairgrass clumps are fine size wise and will fill in soon enough. You can always add more if you want to speed up the process.



Thank you very much! That's good to know the clumps are ok, and it's just a slow process. Happy to wait as there's no point rushing it now! I keep toying with the idea of making it a mixed carpet with some micranthemum monte carlo but not sure if that will do well with the planned no co2. I'm following your NatureScape journal and really like the look of your carpet and planting in general. I might have to do some swapping around later on, but I guess that's part of the journey.


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## Tim Harrison (7 Apr 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> I keep toying with the idea of making it a mixed carpet with some micranthemum monte carlo but not sure if that will do well with the planned no co2.


I'd be inclined to just stick with hair grass. It starts to get a bit complicated if you mix it with something that requires trimming like MC, and it probably won't grow very compact without CO2 although LC might help.


Miss-Pepper said:


> I might have to do some swapping around later on, but I guess that's part of the journey.


It certainly is, just like terrestrial gardening. It's how we learn and progress. I swap stuff out all the time


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## Miss-Pepper (9 Apr 2019)

Grabbed a bargain pot of Riccia Fluitans today. It was mostly yellow but I've tweezers out the good bits and I'm experimenting mixing it in with the java fern, right at the top of the aquarium. You probably wouldn't know it was there unless I told you  but we'll see what happens...I'm hoping the java moss will anchor it down! I also grabbed a pot of Leptodictyum Riparium, which to me looks very similar to the emersed java fern but I'd never seen this plant before so I've just added a bit to the wood.





Everything I've read says Riccia won't attach to wood but it's so near the surface I'm hoping floating bits will get caught on itself. Worth a go.


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## Miss-Pepper (5 May 2019)

Can't believe it's almost been a month again  been busy with 'on land' gardening and my art so the tank has been largely ignored in this time. I've let water pool up from spraying it down, but seemingly no harm done and the hairgrass is actually growing better where the pool was collecting! I am going to order a few more plants and then fill it up very soon . I stare at the tank every morning as I struggle to get up, it'd be nice to have a little movement!









Riccia doing nicely in amongst the java moss, and I've tied it to the branches as it kept falling off lol.









I have the lights on pretty much all day currently, so I will have to devise a new lighting timer schedule that allows me to view it in the morning, largely ignore it during the day and view again before bed in the evening. Any suggestions please?


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## Miss-Pepper (11 May 2019)

Well I flooded the aquarium on Wednesday, added ammonia along with some Cloverleaf pearls as well as squeezing some filter floss mulm in from another aquarium to speed the cycle up a bit. Two days later I already had some nitrite showing up, but my tank is in this really horrible messy stage. Some diatoms, even a bit of cyano which I am removing and I've done two 50% water changes on separate days. I cannot wait to get some shrimp in there to help me clean the leaves  On another note, I'm really impressed how quiet the little Denerle filter is I got, don't even notice it now! But it's filter media is pretty crap. Not sure how to modify it yet but I think I will have to.


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## TBRO (11 May 2019)

Good work, diatoms are horrible. They always seem to go on and on for me, when I’m just about to loose hope they dissolve. 

Maybe try nerite snails, they are really good at scouring rocks and anubias leaves. 

Personally I would get rid of the Riccia, it always seems to disintegrate and get stuck everywhere, messy stuff. T


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Miss-Pepper (11 May 2019)

TBRO said:


> Good work, diatoms are horrible. They always seem to go on and on for me, when I’m just about to loose hope they dissolve.
> 
> Maybe try nerite snails, they are really good at scouring rocks and anubias leaves.
> 
> ...



Aren't they just awful! As soon as the tank is cycled I'll try some snails, shrimp, ottos the lot  

Thanks I'll keep an eye on the Riccia, I do keep fishing little bits out that never stuck down properly but if it all goes that way so be it!


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## Tim Harrison (11 May 2019)

Adding ammonia is not a good idea, and totally unnecessary in a planted tank especially one that's been dry started. 
It's probably responsible for triggering the brown algae, cyanobacteria etc, not to mention nitrite spike. 
I'd do a 100% water change and just let nature take its course, it should cycle without in a week or so.


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## Lauris (11 May 2019)

Same thoughts on adding amonia. I have had a struggle in past with few projects where at the start I couldn't manage the amonia and so the nitite spikes and ended up in a battle with different algae types (inc. the ones mentioned above) from the week one. This made the journey less pleasant indeed.

I would suggest to see if anyone local would be willing to share some matured media. It would help to stabilise the process and avoid battle with algae types


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (12 May 2019)

In addition to the above, if you are wanting to change the filter media, I would do this now so that you don't have any risk of a mini cycle further down the line.


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## Miss-Pepper (12 May 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> Adding ammonia is not a good idea, and totally unnecessary in a planted tank especially one that's been dry started.
> It's probably responsible for triggering the brown algae, cyanobacteria etc, not to mention nitrite spike.
> I'd do a 100% water change and just let nature take its course, it should cycle without in a week or so.



Oh no! Really?! This is always the way I've been taught to do it, just shows you can't assume you already know the best way to do something  thanks for the heads up. I'll do another water change today. Are there any signs I should look out for in terms of the cycle being completed? 



Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> In addition to the above, if you are wanting to change the filter media, I would do this now so that you don't have any risk of a mini cycle further down the line.



Thanks I've found the Dennerle corner filter has a little cage accessory 'filter modul' so you can add some small bio media. I'll get ordering it now.


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## Tim Harrison (12 May 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> Are there any signs I should look out for in terms of the cycle being completed?


Well, I hate to admit it, but it's probably the only time I'd advocate the use of a test kit. Although hobby grade test kits are notoriously inaccurate nitrate, nitrite and ammonia test kits should give you a ball park indication when the tank has cycled, i.e. when all are as good as zero. If nitrate is still present in low ppm, usually all that is required is a water change, and then you can start to slowly add critters so the filter flora have time to react. 

However, I don't usually start adding critters to a scape until it's settled in properly and I've dialled in the CO2. That way if I need to make adjustments I don't have to worry about livestock. By then my scapes are usually about 4-6 weeks mature, and experience tells me that the tank has long since cycled so I don't need to use test kits at all.


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## dw1305 (12 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> Miss-Pepper said:
> 
> 
> > added ammonia along


 OK, just stop adding the ammonia, this is *quite important.*

Ammonia addition doesn't serve any useful purpose in a planted tank, it probably delays the development of an appropriate microbial flora, and quite possibly will damage the assemblage of nitrifying organisms that have developed during the DSM. 

There is plenty of scientific research on this, but not much of this has trickled down to forums. Have a look at <"Bartelme RP, McLellan SL, Newton RJ. (2017) Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing _Archaea_ and Comammox _Nitrospira_. _Frontiers in Microbiology_."> also have a look at <"Bacteria/biological...."> and the links in the quote. 





dw1305 said:


> *The Science bit*
> The original research was based on the growing requirements of bacteria isolated from sewage works (high pH, high ammonia loading), but you can only grow a tiny proportion of micro-organisms in culture, and the ones we can <"grow in culture aren't the ones found in aquarium filters">.
> 
> More recently scientists have looked at nitrification in biofilters using the <"isotopes of nitrogen"> and DNA sequencing of the organisms present, which has shown that their are a huge range of micro-organisms in aquarium filters and substrate and that the most important ones are Ammonia Oxidising Archaea and <"COMAMMOX _Nitrospira_ bacteria that can convert ammonia (NH3) directly into nitrate (NO3)">.
> ...


cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (12 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,  OK, just stop adding the ammonia, this is *quite important.*
> 
> Ammonia addition doesn't serve any useful purpose in a planted tank, it probably delays the development of an appropriate microbial flora, and quite possibly will damage the assemblage of nitrifying organisms that have developed during the DSM.
> 
> There is plenty of scientific research on this, but not much of this has trickled down to forums. Have a look at <"Bartelme RP, McLellan SL, Newton RJ. (2017) Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing _Archaea_ and Comammox _Nitrospira_. _Frontiers in Microbiology_."> also have a look at <"Bacteria/biological...."> and the links in the quote. cheers Darrel



Thank you so much Darrel, I always like to see the reasoning behind things but I think it'll take me a while to digest all this new information! I am planning on doing a large water change momentarily, as suggested, to remove all the nitrites that were between 0.25 and 0.5ppm. If this brings the ammonia down from 2ppm to 0 again, still no addition of ammonia at all? I'm still stuck on the idea that if the bacteria have nothing to feed upon, they will die back. When I flooded the tank ammonia and nitrite were 0 so I assumed I needed to do *something* to start it all off. If it tests ok when set up, and there's no change in a week to me nothing has happened and I'll never know when it's ok to add inhabitants? There was me excited that some ammonia had been converted into nitrites so quickly


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## dw1305 (12 May 2019)

Hi all,





Miss-Pepper said:


> while to digest all this new information!


It honestly isn't new,. You can look at <"Dr Tim Hovanec's"> comments in <"Bacteria revealed"> and the <"Nitrogen Cycle Discussion"> thread. The basic point is that the original work on nitrification (including Dr Hovanec's), used the information that was available at the time, but we now know that this isn't what happens in aquarium filtration. 

Dr Hovanec used_ Nitrobacter _spp., <"Ammonia Oxidising Bacteria" (AOB)> which had been isolated from sewage sludge and were found to only grow in highly alkaline situations with a high ammonia loading (so basically in raw sewage). Because of the requirements of these bacteria, high ammonia levels had to be maintained until you added the fish (which would then supply the ammonia) or the AOB went dormant and your cycle stalled.

Before that we had used the "sacrificial fish" method, so ammonia addition was an advance. Because nitrite (NO2-) is still toxic to fish, subsequent to the AOB you needed the development of another class of bacteria that converted NO2- to nitrate (NO3-), and then that NO3 could only be removed via water changes (the schematic below from  <"Beginner FAQ: The Nitrogen Cycle, and ``New Tank Syndrome''>) 





In both cases ("sacrificial fish" and "ammonia addition") plants were mainly looked on as mainly decorative, and their contribution to the nitrogen cycle was assumed to be minimal.  The subsequent forty years of research have shown that this is all wrong. 

Plant/microbe biofiltration is much more efficient than microbe only nitrification (research from constructed wetlands and phytoremediation) and that plants preferentially use NH3/NH4+ as their nitrogen source.  
Oxygen is the prime metric in nitrification (measurable via the five day BOD test), 
_Nitrobacter_ doesn't occur in aquarium filters, but
A huge range of other micro-organisms do including Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA),
Many of the new organisms found by DNA/RNA library methods don't require high pH levels.
_Nitrospira, _the bacteria that oxidises NO2- to NO3-, was found to have the <"Comammox gene"> that allows it to convert ammonia directly to nitrate.
There are a number of scientific papers specifically on the nitrifying organisms in aquarium filters, which suggest that their assemblage shows a fluid response to varying ammonia loadings, with a stable core of Archaea and an ever changing cast of nitrifying bacteria. This is described in <"Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing _Archaea_ and Comammox _Nitrospira"_> and Bagchi _et al _(2014) <"Temporal and Spatial Stability of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Bacteria in Aquarium Biofilters">. Also have a look at <"Need some opinions on this (Cycling, diana walstad quote)">, it gives some more background. 





Miss-Pepper said:


> I am planning on doing a large water change momentarily, as suggested, to remove all the nitrites that were between 0.25 and 0.5ppm. If this brings the ammonia down from 2ppm to 0 again, still no addition of ammonia at all?


You need to remove the ammonia as rapidly as possible, and then not add any more. 

You may get a flush of algal growth following the ammonia addition, but because of the DSM period  the damage done (to microbial flora) by the ammonia addition is likely to be relatively short-lived. 

cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (12 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> It honestly isn't new



Sorry Darrel, that was meant to read new *to me*. I've been a fish keeper for 7 years and honestly this is the first time someone has said to me don't use ammonia to cycle an aquarium. I'm not disputing what you are saying. You clearly have a much more scientific background than myself and are very knowledgeable on the subject, so I respect and appreciate the advice you are giving me. I will be working through all the links you've provided, thank you.



dw1305 said:


> You need to remove the ammonia as rapidly as possible, and then not add any more.



I've taken out as much water as possible and refreshed the water. Nitrite is reading 0ppm and ammonia could be 0 or 0.25, I actually find it really difficult to read the API test kit but it's certainly no higher than that.

I'm a little confused on how to proceed and what I'm waiting for now, or how long but I suppose those answers will be revealed within the threads so I'll get to it. Thanks again.


----------



## dw1305 (12 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> honestly this is the first time someone has said to me don't use ammonia to cycle an aquarium


And that is the real issue for me, many forums and LFS are advocating methods that definitely aren't best practice and in a lot of cases actively get in the way of people being successful aquarists. I would hope that you would get better advice in Germany, Sweden or the Netherlands.

There is no money to be made by telling people that *"oxygen, plants and time"* are the most important factors in being a successful fish keeper. If you then tell them that

they can use garden soil capped with sand as substrate,
that there is no point in trying to change your water chemistry with pH buffers,
there are no special phosphors, (unique to aquarium tubes), that promote plant growth,
you can collect rocks, wood and dead leaves safely from the wild,
that live food, vegetables and dead leaves are cheap and good ways to feed your fish and shrimps
that a bespoke, very expensive filter media is, at best, irrelevantly slightly more efficient than alfagrog etc.,
that a canister filter is fundamentally _a pump in a bucket._
that snails are a good thing in the aquarium
that a lot of aquarium test kits aren't accurate and shouldn't be used as a basis for important decisions.
Plants need all fourteen of the essential elements for plant growth, just in vastly differing amounts.

That every ion is the same as every other ion in solution,
that plants can only take up nutrients as ions and
it makes no difference to the plant if the source of a potassium ion (K+) was ADA's finest or the cheapest dry potassium salt.
Then a large amount of the products sold by the industry becomes superfluous.





Miss-Pepper said:


> You clearly have a much more scientific background than myself


Some of this is my "day job", but there is a vast resource of peer validated, open source, scientific research available to every-one.

The headline news is:

Oxygen is much more important than ammonia in "cycling".
Nitrification is carried out by a large range of organisms that we've only discovered recently,
and that the bacteria we thought were essential for cycling don't actually occur in aquarium filters
If you have plenty of plants (and some with the aerial advantage) you can use them both to improve water quality and as an indication of when to add fertilisers.
"Plant/microbe biofiltration" is much more efficient than "microbe only" biofiltration.
Plant roots are leaky structures, leaking oxygen, nutrients and carbon into the "rhizosphere", the zone around the root, altering the microbial assemblage to the plants advantage. 
Diana Walstad had to publish her book <"The Ecology of Planted Aquarium"> privately despite the fact that it was meticulously researched and full of information that the subsequent two decades has very largely validated.  There were some things that she <"subsequently revised in the light of her experience">, because she is a scientist she was happy to do this.

Dr Tim Hovanec sells a product designed to help cycle aquariums, but again was happy to revise his products and advice in light of scientific advances, but then you go onto to a forum and you read the same old, totally discredited, advice repeated time after time, and it really p*sses me off, because it is one of the things that is standing in the way of people having healthy vibrant aquariums that they can enjoy, rather than staggering from disaster to disaster.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (13 May 2019)

Can we make a sticky out of this last post and make everyone who wants to join the forum read this first?


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## dw1305 (13 May 2019)

Hi all,





Edvet said:


> Can we make a sticky out of this last post and make everyone who wants to join the forum read this first?


Thanks Ed, but I definitely need write a less angry, more fluffy, properly referenced one. 

Apologies to @Miss-Pepper as well, it wasn't meant to come over quite like that. It also looks like I failed to read @Tim Harrison's or @Lauris's posts, before I posted mine.  

Reading through (both) my posts this morning I think I might have been channeling my inner "Clive".

cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (13 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Thanks Ed, but I definitely need write a less angry, more fluffy, properly referenced one.
> 
> Apologies to @Miss-Pepper as well, it wasn't meant to come over quite like that. It also looks like I failed to read @Tim Harrison's or @Lauris's posts, before I posted mine.
> 
> ...



No need to appologise to me Darrel, sometimes we all need a good shouting at  Just kidding, I read your replies as frustration over the perpetuation of false information rather than anger directed towards me. I've gone over a lot of the material you provided and I think the penny is finally starting to drop! You've made a lot of good points in this thread on both 'cycling' and other common misconceptions. Many of which, I already knew about so it's funny I'd taken this aspect of fish keeping as gospel. 

So far I _think_ I understand, the rhizosphere is a hugely important part of the ecosystem where plant and bacteria work together symbiotically. Once plants are established and growing, it is assumed bacteria is now present and will be able to process low levels of ammonia. So you can add inhabitants carefully and slowly once plants look healthy and build it up over time? During this time, filter bacteria is also establishing itself with the 'right' kind of bacteria instead of kind of bacteria that grow and survive in high levels of ammonia such as found during an old fashioned liquid ammonia cycle (or raw sewage). Is this about right? Sorry for my lack of scientific wording and basic level of comprehension!

On a tangent, I've actually been doing a lot of research for my garden including the no-dig method for growing fruit and vegetables. This method is also based upon the symbiotic relationship terrestrial plant roots have with the soil flora, and how we must preserve the bacteria and fungi living in it in order to have bountiful, healthy plants. 

I hope I haven't damaged my bacteria too much, and algae will soon subside with maintenance. While watching the tank this morning I noticed a small, white flatworm. So perhaps there's life yet!

Thanks again Darrel!


----------



## tam (13 May 2019)

Do you have another tank? You mentioned mulm? If so, I'd give it a few weeks to settle in and the plants begin growing underwater, then exchange some media with the other tank and start lightly stocking it.


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## Miss-Pepper (13 May 2019)

tam said:


> Do you have another tank? You mentioned mulm? If so, I'd give it a few weeks to settle in and the plants begin growing underwater, then exchange some media with the other tank and start lightly stocking it.



Yes I have two other, non planted aquariums. I did previously squeeze some mulm into the tank from a piece of filter floss. I might be able to rob some bio media from the fx5 once I get the Dennerle module, if it'll fit in it. But god I hate that thing  gives me back ache just thinking about wrestling with it.


----------



## tam (13 May 2019)

Even floss/sponges will contain bacteria so you can swap out a sponge if that's easier. Didn't think to suggest it earlier, but for next time, the other option with a small filter is to run it in your existing tank as an extra - then move it to the new tank when you are ready to go.


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## dw1305 (14 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> So far I _think_ I understand, the rhizosphere is a hugely important part of the ecosystem where plant and bacteria work together symbiotically. Once plants are established and growing, it is assumed bacteria is now present and will be able to process low levels of ammonia.


Yes pretty much. The bacteria are likely to be mainly Archaea, but until we had ways of extracting microbial DNA from the environment we didn't know that <"Archaea and Bacteria were any different">.



 (from <"http://www.fossilmuseum.net/">)

As well as the synergistic effect you shouldn't underestimate the direct contribution of the plants to nitrogen uptake, in many cases it will be much larger than the microbial contribution. It is difficult to get exact figures (because it is always "plant/microbe" system), but floating plants (often <"Water Hyacinth _Eichornia crassipes_">) are used a lot in tropical situations.

I've just been looking at a really useful open source paper, <"_Myriophyllum aquaticum_ Constructed Wetland Effectively Removes Nitrogen in Swine Wastewater">, which quantifies a lot of these factors, this is from the summary... 





> ... monospecies stands of _Myriophyllum aquaticum_ to treat swine wastewater..... and a high (98.3%) average ammonia removal efficiency under a N loading rate of 9 kg ha-1 d-1 was observed. To determine whether this high efficiency was associated with the performance of active microbes, the abundance, structure, and interactions of microbial community were compared in the unvegetated and vegetated samples. Real-time quantitative polymerase chain reactions showed the abundances of nitrifying genes (archaeal and bacterial _amoA_) and denitrifying genes (_nirS_, _nirK_, and _nosZ_) were increased significantly by _M. aquaticum_ in the sediments, and the strongest effects were observed for the archaeal _amoA_ (218-fold) and _nirS_ genes (4620-fold). High-throughput sequencing of microbial 16S rRNA gene amplicons showed that _M. aquaticum_ greatly changed the microbial community, and ammonium oxidizers (_Nitrosospira_ and _Nitrososphaera_), nitrite-oxidizing bacteria (_Nitrospira_).....were enriched significantly in the sediments





Miss-Pepper said:


> So you can add inhabitants carefully and slowly once plants look healthy and build it up over time? During this time, filter bacteria is also establishing itself with the 'right' kind of bacteria instead of kind of bacteria that grow and survive in high levels of ammonia such as found during an old fashioned liquid ammonia cycle (or raw sewage). Is this about right? Sorry for my lack of scientific wording and basic level of comprehension!


Yes that's it.

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (14 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> On a tangent, I've actually been doing a lot of research for my garden including the no-dig method for growing fruit and vegetables. This method is also based upon the symbiotic relationship terrestrial plant roots have with the soil flora, and how we must preserve the bacteria and fungi living in it in order to have bountiful, healthy plants.


I like it as well, particularly for heavier clay based soils. I think it is generally a good idea to try to avoid disturbing soil (and substrate) if you can. You just add organic matter to the soil surface and over time it is incorporated into the soil profile.

I've talked a lot about oxygen in terms of the beneficial effects of keeping the filter media fully oxygenated in the aquarium, but it is also one of the beneficial effects of "no dig" gardening. The soil isn't compacted and you don't destroy the earthworm tunnels and crumb structure of the soil. The ideal growing medium has <"high air-filled porosity, but also high water holding capacity">.

You can create a "perfect" potting mix easily enough, but with the soil you have to do the best with what you have.

With "no dig" over time water percolates into the soil more easily, so you don't get problems with water-logging and hypoxia. Additionally the organic matter you've been adding also helps retain that water and further improve the crumb structure and CEC of the soil.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (14 May 2019)

I am always jealous on the garden soils as featured in Gardeners world, you can poke a stick in them for 3/4 feet without much resistance......


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## Miss-Pepper (20 May 2019)

Still battling with my algae issues. I've been keeping up with frequent large water changes, manual removal and have swapped the filter wool for filter floss and mature ceramic bio-rings from another tank. Added some shrimp to help battle what I can't get and because I like them . Lights are on 6 hours a day, at full % of 16W, should I try reducing hours or brightness? I don't want to resort to anything chemical as it just masks a problem instead of fixes it but I pulled out a few leaves today that looked like they were about to be covered in black beard algae and I'm getting a bit worried things aren't improving. Thanks


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## dw1305 (20 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> Still battling with my algae issues.


Hopefully as the tank grows in they will lessen. 





Miss-Pepper said:


> filter wool for filter floss


Have you got some sponge you could put in instead? Ideally not finer than 20ppi sponge. 

Filter floss is a really effective mechanical filter medium, but because of that it tends to clog really easily and that reduces oxygenation to the biological filter media. It is fine if you keep on changing the floss, but it is a bit of a faff. 





Miss-Pepper said:


> Lights are on 6 hours a day, at full % of 16W, should I try reducing hours or brightness?


I wouldn't have a shorter photo-period, but you could try reducing the light intensity, some-one else will be more familiar with the light fitting and may be able to advise you of an intensity to use. 

Personally I'd just add a <"few floating plants and/or fast growing stems">, they will diffuse the light, but also have the advantage of  taking up some of the nutrients. Once the tank has settled down, and the permanent planting has grown in a bit more, you can remove them. 

cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (20 May 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Hopefully as the tank grows in they will lessen. Have you got some sponge you could put in instead? Ideally not finer than 20ppi sponge.
> 
> Filter floss is a really effective mechanical filter medium, but because of that it tends to clog really easily and that reduces oxygenation to the biological filter media. It is fine if you keep on changing the floss, but it is a bit of a faff. I wouldn't have a shorter photo-period, but you could try reducing the light intensity, some-one else will be more familiar with the light fitting and may be able to advise you of an intensity to use.
> 
> ...



Thanks Darrel. The new filter cartridge has a 'core' of very open celled foam and there's a little more porous pad that sits in the bottom so some sponge but seeing how brown and nasty the old filter wool was I thought it could use some finer stuff until settled. I will keep in mind though that I need to replace frequently and then perhaps swap for more bio media once the fish go in. Won't be adding those until I have a bit of balance though.

Haha well the funny thing is, I did try and get some floating plants from eBay but they arrived in such a state, it almost looked like someone trod on them! Full refund but not much plant to work with. Giving the best leaves a chance to recover, if not I'll get something else. Will try and pick up something like elodea?

On another note I've been trying to rub the brown algae off the leaves and it feels very gritty, like calcium dust. Is that still diatoms mixed with my liquid rock tapwater?


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## dw1305 (20 May 2019)

Hi all, 





Miss-Pepper said:


> Will try and pick up something like elodea?


If you can find it <"_Ceratophyllum demersum">_ would be really good, and likes hard water. It doesn't <"travel very well">, but you can often find it as a pond plant. 

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (6 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 
@Miss-Pepper,  how are things going now? 

cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (9 Jun 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> @Miss-Pepper,  how are things going now?
> 
> cheers Darrel



Going much better now thanks Darrel, but still not quite 'perfect'! It was a bit of a palava to get hold of the Hornwort, which arrived in pieces anyway, but hopefully it'll start working it's magic soon as it recovers! I also got some salvinia cucullata and hygrophila pinnatifida to add to the tank. 

I'm still having to manually remove a lot of slime algae/cyanobacteria that the clean up crew won't touch, not sure if I need to add anything to the aquarium to finish it off but was trying to avoid needless additives where possible. I also don't know how effective non-antibiotic treatments are against it. 

We finally got some fish too, corydoras habrosus and pseudomugil gertrudae. Only a few of each, I had to actually raid two fish stores for 3 corys! But we be adding more of each to get a nice size school over the next few weeks. Not sure if we'll add any other species, depends on my will power haha! There's also still the 3 amano shrimp, 6 orange 'cherry' shrimp, and ? number of ramshorn snails! They've done a great job helping keep it clean and my partner and I are really enjoying just a peaceful end to the evening, watching 'fish town' formerly known as 'shrimp town'.

Thanks for all your help, hopefully things only improve from here.


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## LouisGenin (9 Jun 2019)

Looks very nice and lush 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jayefc1 (11 Jun 2019)

Looking good the balance in a low tech tank generally comes quiet naturally I think it just takes a while as I'm sure you have found out the clean up crew will do there job one thing I have learnt is every thing in the tank has a job to do 
Cheers 
Jay


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## Miss-Pepper (14 Aug 2019)

Time for another journal entry I think!

*I still have cyanobacteria!* And it's driving me a little around the bend. I tried manual removing as much as possible during 50% weekly water changes. I tried using the higher dose of 'The Aquascaper' fertiliser to ensure the plants weren't being out-competed (at 3ml per 50l as opposed to 1ml per 50l for low tech) and lastly I gave in and bought Easy-life's Blue Exit. So far, nothing is finishing it off. I can manage it but it's never entirely gone. I actually think the Blue Exit made it worse because it requires you not to do a water change for two weeks! And you can see how nice the tank looked after that...





I had a good deep cleanse after that fiasco I can tell you! The stem plants were beyond saving at that point, the hornwort I had previously had long disintegrated but the crypts are holding strong and my floating plants are starting to pick up and multiply. The fish are all doing great despite this of course, we sadly lost one rainbow but are not why. Perhaps the heatwave, perhaps the damselfly larvae I kept finding in the tank!





The hairgrass seems to be the main attractor of it, and it's no longer looking very healthy or noticeably growing. Is it best to just remove it and focus on another foreground plant?





I'm not unhappy with the tank, I just want it to be salvageable and am not sure what to do next. I still love sitting in bed and watching the fish but I would love this cyanobacteria to be gone now. What do you guys suggest? Also should I leave the right side of the tank open or add some more plants back?


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## Edvet (14 Aug 2019)

Clean the tank, do a large waterchange and add extra NO3, than blackout the tank 4 days ( no peeking).


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## Tim Harrison (14 Aug 2019)

I'd also be thinking about adding a whole load of other plants and taking Darrel up on his suggestion of floating plants as well. I'd also be thinking about adding CO2 or at least LC. 
High plant biomass will give your tank an amazing degree of biological stability, and help to banish algae


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## Miss-Pepper (14 Aug 2019)

Edvet said:


> Clean the tank, do a large waterchange and add extra NO3, than blackout the tank 4 days ( no peeking).



Thank you, it's certainly worth a try! The plants won't be negatively affected? 



Tim Harrison said:


> I'd also be thinking about adding a whole load of other plants and taking Darrel up on his suggestion of floating plants as well. I'd also be thinking about adding CO2 or at least LC.
> High plant biomass will give your tank an amazing degree of biological stability, and help to banish algae



I'll add some more floating plants if I can get some but the ones I have are showing good growth finally, probably thanks to the fert 'overdosing'  Any other plants you suggest, maybe for the background? I don't really want another shedding stem plant, made too much mess! I have very little actual true algae now thanks to previous help, just some green on the wood (which I like oddly) and this cyanobacteria.


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## CooKieS (14 Aug 2019)

Ultralife Blue Green slime remover is the ultimate weapon against cyanobacteria, dose once then upgrade your routine as said by the others members and it won't came back!


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## Edvet (15 Aug 2019)

Miss-Pepper said:


> The plants won't be negatively affected?


Not to my knowledge and experience,


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## tam (15 Aug 2019)

I've always used blackouts instead of chemicals too. You want to remove as much as possible first so that it's not decomposing in the tank when it dies. Then lights off and tape thick paper/card around the glass to stop any ambient light getting in. Wait patiently and fingers crossed. Make sure your flow is good - worth giving your spraybar parts a clean at the same time - it also likes dead spots in the current.

I wouldn't give up on the hairgrass yet, the original leaves always die back and then it makes roots under the substrate and then it starts growing. Give it a bit more time.


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## Franks (16 Aug 2019)

Cyanobacteria is not an algae so a blackout will do nothing to help there. 

The compacted substrate is the most likely cause for your bacterial issue. it won't go, but it's manageable using Hydrogen Peroxide. I've found that once cyano gets onto DHG, it causes BBA quite easily. If you're not injecting Co2, you're fighting a losing battle. 

I've recently rescaped using different sized pea gravel and I'm 100% cyano free.


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## dw1305 (16 Aug 2019)

Hi all, 





Franks said:


> Cyanobacteria is not an algae


It isn't. Algae isn't a very useful term, because the different algal organisms aren't closely related to one another. The green algae (Chlorophyta) are much more closely related to the higher plants than they are to Diatoms etc. 





Franks said:


> so a blackout will do nothing to help there.


Why not? they are photosynthetic. 





Franks said:


> The compacted substrate is the most likely cause for your bacterial issue.


Possibly, there is some suggestion that <"high levels of DOC"> make cyanobacteria outbreaks more likely.  





Franks said:


> If you're not injecting Co2, you're fighting a losing battle.


I'm not a CO2 user, but I very rarely get any visible BGA (very occasionally I've seen it on the underneath of the older _Pistia_ leaves). 

You can actually detect very low levels of BGA via odour, if your aquarium has a slightly earthy, "pondy" smell that is caused by BGA, even if you can't see it. 

cheers Darrel


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## Miss-Pepper (18 Aug 2019)

Thank you everyone for your replies, I read all your comments but was distracted by health issues and couldn't find the time to reply properly.



Edvet said:


> Not to my knowledge and experience,



Excellent, I will give this a go then! I know cyanobacteria isn't an algae but it does still photosynthesise as Darrel said.



tam said:


> I wouldn't give up on the hairgrass yet, the original leaves always die back and then it makes roots under the substrate and then it starts growing. Give it a bit more time.



Ok I will give it a little longer after the cyano issue clears up thanks!



Franks said:


> Cyanobacteria is not an algae so a blackout will do nothing to help there.
> 
> The compacted substrate is the most likely cause for your bacterial issue. it won't go, but it's manageable using Hydrogen Peroxide. If you're not injecting Co2, you're fighting a losing battle..



I appreciate it is a deep substrate but I've seen a lot of dirted tanks set up this way that are beautiful so fingers crossed it's not going to hold me back and I can finish this cyano off, otherwise I would have to start all over again! As for CO2 I tried to purposefully pick plants that would do well without, but I will keep it in mind for another last resort!



dw1305 said:


> I'm not a CO2 user, but I very rarely get any visible BGA (very occasionally I've seen it on the underneath of the older _Pistia_ leaves).



Thanks again Darrel, I think I will be doing a black out and ordering some more low light easy plants including some more floating ones. If this still persists and CO2 is my only option, I have failed what I wanted to achieve so will have to have a think there. Wish me luck!


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## sparkyweasel (18 Aug 2019)

Of course it's possible to have a beautiful planted tank without cyanobacteria or algae problems, without injecting CO2. Lots of examples on here and on the net, and aquarium books from Victorian times until the 1980s, - when CO2 injection started to become trendy.


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## Miss-Pepper (31 Aug 2019)

Quick update! It's amazing how much I missed looking at the tank in the 4 days, but just uncovered it and it all looks great! Plants are totally fine, a little outstretched towards the light but nothing major and I can't see any cyano on them! Possibly some left at the front underneath the sand but if it comes back again I know exactly what to do. 

Thanks for the great advice as always


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## Edvet (31 Aug 2019)




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## tam (31 Aug 2019)

That's great! What you can do for the sand is just block that front edge - so tape on a 2" high bit of card or similar over it. It's like a mini black out just for that bit  I find disturbing the front edge with a credit card or similar (careful not to trap sand between the card and glass and scratch the glass) when you are cleaning helps clear out and mulm/algae starting too.


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## Miss-Pepper (8 Sep 2019)

Given the moss on the wood a good hacking back because I couldn't see my bucephalandra anymore! I was a bit ruthless but a lot of it wasn't attached, and I'm sure it'll soon recover. Still feel like there's something missing, I'm not happy with the middle and right of the aquascape. The left is starting to get a really nice mix of colours and textures but open to all and any suggestions on how to improve this tank. 

Current fish stocking if anyone would like to know, because it always looks empty in photos haha:

5 gertrude's rainbows, 7 c.habrosus, 2 sparkling gouramis, 3 amano shrimp, 3 cherry shrimp + wild type? babies and god knows how many ramshorns!


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## jaypeecee (11 Feb 2020)

dw1305 said:


> that a bespoke, very expensive filter media is, at best, irrelevantly slightly more efficient than alfagrog etc.



Hi Darrel,

When I read this, I had to check that today's date wasn't April 1. 

Alfagrog! Sounds like something out of Monty Python's...no that was Albatross! I'll remember the name 'Alfagrog' for the rest of my life.

Wonderful name!

I did check it out and it looks interesting. The supplier even provides a chemical analysis of its composition. Why don't we hear more about it?

JPC


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## dw1305 (11 Feb 2020)

Hi all, 





jaypeecee said:


> Alfagrog! Sounds like something out of Monty Python's


Yes it does. Often referred to as "grog-glass" by aquarists of a certain age.





jaypeecee said:


> Why don't we hear more about it?


It has had a <"few mentions">. My guess is that it hasn't had the recent exposure of a lot of the branded products because there isn't much profit in selling it. <"Hydroleca"> would be another really good, cheap, filter media that various people would like to banish into the outer darkness, so that they can keep selling their "premier" products.

I think pond people still use it for trickle filters etc. because a 15 Kg sack <"is pretty cheap to buy">. I used to be friendly with a fantastic fish keeper, the late Bob Marklew, Bristol  pleco breeder extraordinaire, and he was a <"grog-glass user">.

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (12 Feb 2020)

Hi @dw1305 

Perhaps Alfagrog has not been taken up by the aquarium hobby because the smallest 'granule' size is 25mm! That's about the size of a golf ball, isn't it?

JPC


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