# TNC Complete Vs. TNC Dry EI



## sonicninja (7 Jun 2014)

Hi everyone,
I'm still in what I consider the early learning stages of my first planted tank. So far thanks to this forum I've had fairly good success but there are a few issues I want to iron out to get my tank growing like total madness!

I wanted to ask a very general question regarding the use of pre-mixed ferts and their effectiveness compared to self-mixed solutions.

I purchased a partially used set of TNC Dry EI fertiliser which I've been mixing using the calculator on their website. Having not dosed ferts in a tank before it's difficult to ascertain how well they are working but im not convinced.

I also have a new bottle of 'TNC Complete' liquid and I wondered if dosed correctly I could have the same/better results? Obviously I cant tailor this to my particular mains water/aquarium needs but for someone starting out do you think this is a sufficient way of providing my plants with food?

Anyone using this particular product with any great success or is it just a lazy mans EI?

Thanks everyone!

Keith


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## Andy D (7 Jun 2014)

Why makes you think the current ferts are not working?

What is your mixture and dosing regime?


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## sonicninja (7 Jun 2014)

Hi Andy,
I think that the dosing might not be working is that my plants aren't 100% healthy and that I'm dosing it!  
As I stated I also bought them partially used with some other equipment that had been misused so if the previous owner didnt look after his equipment god knows what he may have done with the ferts (they could be a decade old/be mixed together etc)
I'm mixing the solutions for my 65 liter tank using this calculator http://www.thenutrientcompany.com/aquarium/calculators/  and producing a liquid fert that I dose again using the regime stated on that page. I've been following it religiously for a few months but since I have no direct comparison with another tank or a previous tank I'm not sure if what I'm dosing is 'working'. I was basically wondering if in order to cut out any human error on my part and make things easier for a beginner if the pre-mixed TNC Complete would cut the mustard..?


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## EnderUK (7 Jun 2014)

I use the TNC dry salts. Don't use their calculator though. I use Yet Another. Using the ppm function to rough measure what I need for my dosage bottles. TNC complete is just the same salts ready mixed into solution are they not?

Just looked on the link, looks pretty identical to what I dose so there shouldn't be an issue. I'm guessing it might be more a light/CO2/flow issue?


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## Andy D (7 Jun 2014)

I also wonder if the issue lies elsewhere. 

Keith what makes you think it is the nutrients specifically? What deficiency signs are the plants showing?

If I recall from PFK you have an ADA 60P with FECO2 and 2 TMC mini tiles?

Are the lights still just above the water?
How long are they on for?
What power level are they running at?
What time does lights and CO2 come on and go off?

There are other questions but this will do to start with.


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## sonicninja (7 Jun 2014)

Well I'm not necessarily convinced that it is the nutrients but I'm also not convinced that its not ()
Its just another line of investigation and considering I'm new to all this it's something I'm aware of. My regime is as follows-
CO2 on from 14:30-23:00
Lights on from 17:00-00:00

Dosing the ferts as stated above and also 1ml of Easy Carbo a day. I originally ceased dosing this as I scared myself away from it after some fish deaths when I overdosed it however my repens died a quick death so ive started to dose it at minimum level to see if I can get them to come back from the brink of death. I do a 50-60% water change each Sunday using a mixture of remineralised RO (with JBL AquaDur) and tap.

The lights have now been raised to 4" above the water surface and are currently at 35% intensity each. I've also taken off any gradual dim in/out so that I have a photo-period with a more clearly defined start and end. 


Additionally Andy I came across your forum picture on another forum when I was looking for info on RO water and plant growth, it was a very different type of plant these forum members were growing though


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## Andy D (7 Jun 2014)

sonicninja said:


> Additionally Andy I came across your forum picture on another forum when I was looking for info on RO water and plant growth, it was a very different type of plant these forum members were growing though



Ha ha! It would not have been me. I only use Gandalf on here and PFK.


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## Andy D (7 Jun 2014)

I'm sure I read in one of Clive's post that the gradual increase in light is actually better for the plants. I cannot remember the exact reason why right now but could probably find the thread if needed. It would certainly mimic nature more to do this.

Change the ferts if you like so you can at least rule it out. The drawback to this is if your plants do improve how do you narrow down why? Was it a specific nutrient or dosage amount etc. As I am sure you are aware the whole idea of EI is take the worry out of nutrient dosing. If you can see signs of a particular deficiency then take a look here to try and narrow it down - http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/deficiencies.htm

What is the deficiency that you see?

It is more likely an issue with CO2 or light. Perhaps raise the lights a bit further for a while to reduce the demand for CO2 and nutrients and see what happens.


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## Iain Sutherland (7 Jun 2014)

Hi keith, as your using EI its relatively safe to assume that ferts wont be your issue.  As far as im aware dry salts wont go 'off' and its unlikely someone could misuse them badly enough to damage their effectiveness.
Essentially EI was designed with one purpose, to overload the tank with all nutrients that you shouldnt have to consider ferts as a cause of issues.  The level of light that Tom Barr used when designing and testing EI was about the same as 4 inches from the sun so all nutrients will be in excess whatever your set up.

So do premixed ferts like tropica specialised, TNC complete, VIMI etc produce better results??  Essentially no, there are hundreds of tanks running EI that prove this.  Can they produce better results than standard EI?? Maybe but i think there is an amount of cause and effect.... often when people make a full switch to premixed its after they have some experience (no more big outlays for equipment so can afford them!!) so have a better understanding of growing plants, they also often change co2 injection method, new scape so flow patterns may be better etc...

Ultimately use EI for what its designed for, to remove one variable so you can focus on light, co2, flow, tank maintenance and plant upkeep, these are the keys to your success [DOUBLEPOST=1402174804][/DOUBLEPOST]





sonicninja said:


> Additionally Andy I came across your forum picture on another forum when I was looking for info on RO water and plant growth, it was a very different type of plant these forum members were growing though


what did you think was he was smoking in his profile picture ? ;P


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## sonicninja (7 Jun 2014)

Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated. I have some help from another forum member on here who has been a great help and although I'm much happier with my CO2 set-up and distribution im still not 100% on all the factors and variables and the science behind a lot of what I'm doing. Tomorrow I'm finally at home during the CO2/lights on phase so it's been suggested to me that I take pH measurements half hourly from the time the CO2 comes on till lights out and plot these on a graph to show how effective my CO2 is. I'm hoping for good results because quite frankly I'm not sure what else I can do.

I have a good external filter and two small Hydor Pico powerheads. One causes a light surface ripple and the other sits directly above my atomizer which in turn is just above the substrate. My thought was that seeing as the CO2 bubbles will rise its a good idea to place the atomizer as low in the tank as possible to give the gas as much time in the water as possible. I've not seen that many people do this so I could be wrong but Im hoping it will yield good results, the flow around the tank seems really good to me.


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