# Tanganyika vs Malawi biotopish scape



## MrClockOff (3 Jul 2022)

Hi all,

I’m looking to build Tanganyika lake biotope, well at least try to get something alike using round stones and sand. But, first a want to make sure there is an easy, small enough and interesting species which could fit in 160l tank (80cmx40cmx55cm).

Many thanks
Daniel


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## seedoubleyou (3 Jul 2022)

Probably just shell  dwellers that will be suited to a tank that size mate. 
They’re not my cup of tea but I know plenty of others are really interested in their behaviour.


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## MirandaB (3 Jul 2022)

I'd say just shelldwellers,one of the less aggressive species such as Neolamprologus similis or multifasciatus.
You'll need an outlet for the fry though as they'll just keep on breeding lol.


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## MrClockOff (12 Jul 2022)

MirandaB said:


> I'd say just shelldwellers,one of the less aggressive species such as Neolamprologus similis or multifasciatus.
> You'll need an outlet for the fry though as they'll just keep on breeding lol.


What sand do they prefer? Is Caribsea Seaflor Special Grade Sand (40lb) OK for them? It has 1-2mm grains. Or this is overkill and I should just get cheap play sand for sand pits?


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## fredi (12 Jul 2022)

I like bd trading sand, been using it for years, wash it, and put it in, doesn’t colour the water, like lots of others, nice uniform fine grain sand,


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## MirandaB (12 Jul 2022)

MrClockOff said:


> What sand do they prefer? Is Caribsea Seaflor Special Grade Sand (40lb) OK for them? It has 1-2mm grains. Or this is overkill and I should just get cheap play sand for sand pits?


Personally I don't like play sand but you could use it as they dig a lot so the usual problem of it compacting shouldn't really occur.
 I tend to use pool filter sand on most of my tanks but that's just my personal preference.


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## MrClockOff (18 Jul 2022)

Turned out my wife wants more colours in the aquarium and shell dwellers are not representing such aspect... So I did some more research and found this guys Dwarf Mbuna (Pseudotropheus Saulosi) have great colours and may fit in 160L. So the thread title was updated. Do you think it's possible? How many I could get in there and what would be perfect ratio between male and female?


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## MrClockOff (18 Jul 2022)

I really like this George Farmer's tank with Chindongo salousi cichlids . I have exactly the same volume tank but just 10cm longer (mine is Oase StyleLine 175).


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## Conort2 (18 Jul 2022)

MrClockOff said:


> Turned out my wife wants more colours in the aquarium and shell dwellers are not representing such aspect... So I did some more research and found this guys Dwarf Mbuna (Pseudotropheus Saulosi) have great colours and may fit in 160L. So the thread title was updated. Do you think it's possible? How many I could get in there and what would be perfect ratio between male and female?


Maybe just the one male, and a decent amount of females. I’d say around five. This really is the smallest tank I’d recommend and is probably still a bit to small however it should just about be doable. I think multiple males would be a recipe for disaster in a tank that small. 

Cheers


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## MrClockOff (18 Jul 2022)

Conort2 said:


> Maybe just the one male, and a decent amount of females. I’d say around five. This really is the smallest tank I’d recommend and is probably still a bit to small however it should just about be doable. I think multiple males would be a recipe for disaster in a tank that small.
> 
> Cheers


Thank you very much for your opinion. I do realise it's not perfect tank size but I need some compromise to keep the tank and make it enjoyable by all family. Thanks a lot


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## dw1305 (18 Jul 2022)

Hi all,


MrClockOff said:


> So the thread title was updated. Do you think it's possible? How many I could get in there and what would be perfect ratio between male and female?


I've never kept them, but I think they are vicious little things. I'm also guessing that only one male unless you have a swimming pool sized tank.
edit: What @Conort2 says.


MrClockOff said:


> Turned out my wife wants more colours in the aquarium and shell dwellers are not representing such aspect.


Just tell her they will "_colour up when they are bigger_", by the time <"she finds out"> they won't get any bigger (or more colorful) she will have <"fallen in love with them"> and it won't matter.

cheers Darrel


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## seedoubleyou (18 Jul 2022)

Great fish and have kept them in the past. I seriously wouldn’t recommend them for a tank your size. Although they interact with the rockwork a lot, they’re a decent size fish and very active.
George really pushed it in that tank and  subsequently added them to a larger tank.
I think he himself could admit he’s far more conscious of the animals welfare now and probably wouldn’t limit them to such a small tank.

It’s a common issue with all these YouTube “celebrities”, they’re regularly doing stuff they don’t advise and making excuses as to why it’s ok for them to do it.
I’m not knocking any of them, but I do feel they have a larger responsibility to set the right examples.


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## seedoubleyou (18 Jul 2022)

A pair of angelfish (one of the smaller species and tank bred) can work well in a tank that size as hardscape only.
Or there are numerous smaller America cichlids that are colourful and you could set up a nice tank for.
If you’re looking for African then unfortunately only shell dwellers would be suited to your tank size in absolute honesty.


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## kayjo (18 Jul 2022)

Based solely on my experience, you could keep some julidochromis IMO.  Go with one of the smaller varieties.   Use a lot of rocks and create tons of cracks and crevices.  I started with 5 in a 50g tank.  Now I have about 3 dozen.  There has never been any aggression.  If you're looking for a brightly colored fish that will "jump out" (visually ) from across the room however, then Julis may not be for you even thought they do have beautiful colors.  

On the other hand, they live with a couple bright yellow  Altolamprologus compressiceps which will definately catch your eye from accross the room.

I was told I could not succesfuly keep these fish in a 50g.  11 years later, they seem fine.  You mileage may vary.


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## Conort2 (18 Jul 2022)

The mrs won’t take any interest after you initially buy them so just get what you want! 😂


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## Conort2 (18 Jul 2022)

Also just a heads up Malawi’s are not the most relaxing of fish to watch, it’s constant chasing and squabbles for dominance. It’s the reason I stopped keeping them, I was sick of watching fish chase each other the whole time.


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## mort (18 Jul 2022)

Are you set on a biotope or is it just the rocky look you are after? A mix of community fish could look quite cool in a rocky scape or maybe look into. I was looking for a molly biotope and stumbled across this tank which has a nice hybrid feel









						The Tank
					

I haven't updated this for a while. The stock has some new additions, 2 Blue Acara, a breeding pair. My Firemouth died a few weeks ago, and the Jack Dempsey was sold. My stock list now is: 11...



					budgetbiotope.weebly.com
				




The fish could be changed for a colourful tetra and some dwarf cichlids of your choice. It would be far more harmonious and relaxing.


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## fredi (18 Jul 2022)

Imho the tank is too small,  for mbuna, Pseudotropheus Saulosi can be extremely aggressive , perhaps shell dwellers, with a few neolamprologus leleupi may be a better bet 👍


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## seedoubleyou (18 Jul 2022)

kayjo said:


> I was told I could not succesfuly keep these fish in a 50g. 11 years later, they seem fine. You mileage may vary.


I agree with you this is achievable, but not achievable for everyone, this is why minimums are recommended.
It’s also worth noting that his tank is considerably smaller than yours.


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## MrClockOff (18 Jul 2022)

Still making up my mind. Everything I do really like won’t fit in my tank.. but I liked community tank with rocky scape .


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## tiger15 (18 Jul 2022)

George Farmer may be a celebrity in planted scapes, but I haven’t found his Malawian cichlid set up a good example.  He set up a rockscape and attached Anubias later but in subsequent video he gave up plants due to cichlid abuse.   I have been a cichlid keeper much longer than George attempted cichlid,  and I have no trouble combining cichlid and plants by knowing what  to pick.  

 Mbuna that Farmer chose are the worst cichlid  for small tank as they are super aggressive and plant destoyer.  Their constant chasing and fighting is also stressful to watch.  There are many small and mellow Tanganyikan cichlid  that  fit well in a  160L tank, and mildly  aggressive Malawian peacock also do well, but I would keep males only for color and to prevent breeding aggression.

An authentic Rift Lake  biotope meant round stone scape,  not an ideal way to form caves as they are heavy and slippery.  Rougher and lighter Lace and lava rock make better caves, and can attach epiphytes easier.  In my 75 and 125 gal , I keep a variety of cichlids from  Africa and America, including  breeding colonies of Tanganyikans, Kribensis and Turkana Jewel cichlid and shoaling large tetra.  My rockscape is fully covered with plants  that  hide the rock caves underneath where cave dwelling Tanganyikan thrive andbreed.


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