# Energy Saving Lightbulbs



## dkm (6 Aug 2009)

Hi,

Firstly I would like to say hello to everyone on the forum. This is my first post.

I am about to set up my first freshwater aquarium. My background is 5 years of reef keeping. I am now setting up a planted discus aquarium.

I have been deliberating over how to light my new aquarium (a Wave station 120x50x50). I have obtained some Silver bresslein MV pendants and think they look fantastic. Right I was going to just run two with each set at 80w but after looking at the units they have standard ceramic 27mm Eddison Screw fittings and was contemplating loosing the external ballasts and putting some Daylight (6500K) Energy saving mini spiral bulbs in them! You can get these bulbs in 11w, 15w, and 18w which equates to 60w, 75w and 100w respectively. According to manufacturers info.

I have tested one in the bresslein pendant and works well. Nice white light as well. 

Now has anyone tried this or does anyone see any reason why it cannot be done? Would it restrict what plants I can have?

The reason I am thinking of doing this is:

big electricity saving
cheaper bulbs
lower heat emission from the bulbs
higher kelvin rating than MV bulbs

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


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## ceg4048 (6 Aug 2009)

Hi,
    Welcome to the forum.   These all sound like pretty good reasons to me! I can see any reason why it shouldn't work.  

Cheers,


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## Dan Crawford (7 Aug 2009)

Thats a great idea, i had some MVs and whilst they worked very well and certainly grew my plants, i would have preferred a whiter light. Shame i got rid of them now


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## Themuleous (7 Aug 2009)

I've not really heard of how people get on with energy saving bulbs.  Isn't there an issue with them not giving off enough light?  I.e. they are energy saving for a reason?

Just a thought, dont want to rain on your parade 

Sam

PS - if you do use them, please let us know how you get on, any way to save money it fine by me!


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## dkm (7 Aug 2009)

Thank guys for the responses. Much appreciated.

Going to do some more experimenting with them. Will post up my findings. Right where can i get a par meter from?!

Dave


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## JamesC (7 Aug 2009)

I tried an energy saving spiral bulb a while ago and found it to be rubbish. This is the one I used - http://www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bu...aylight/Low-Energy-Spiral-30W-ES-865-Prolight. Gave a very green light and produced poor growth with very little pearling. Replaced the 30W bulb with 2x 11W Arcpods which gave much better results.

Some people do use them and seem quite happy so it could be a case of trying different ones to find the best one.

James


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## milla (7 Aug 2009)

You could look at the energy saving Grow lights / envirolights used in hydroponics.  These are standard es fitting and range from 50W to 300W.


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## dkm (7 Aug 2009)

Interesting thanks JamesC. Going to try different ones. Thanks for sharing your experience. It is going to be trial and error!

Will take a look at them milla, but think it might be defeating the object ie. lower power usage, heat etc,

Cheers

Dave


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## milla (7 Aug 2009)

Reason i suggested higher wattage is because i have a small 10G tank 45*45*45cm tank with hood by interpet that comes with 2*15w energy saving daylight bulbs.  I use this tank as a shrimp tank,  30w over a 10G tank is 3wpg so going on the numbers you would assume the tank was highlight especially if you believe the hype about been equivalent to a bulb of 75w.  This means i should have the equivaqlent of 150w over 10 gallon so 15wpg.  Yet in reality all i can grow in this tank is moss and slowly at that.


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## JamesC (7 Aug 2009)

On smaller tanks the WPG rule doesn't work very well which means that you need more WPG than you would need on a larger tank to get the same light conditions. Those comparisons you quote are comparing fluorescent lighting with incandescent lighting which is notoriously poor. As we don't use incandescent lighting on our tanks it's of little use to use.

James


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## milla (7 Aug 2009)

Fair point James

I suppose the point i was trying to make was that i do not think that  2 pendants each with a 18w energy saving bulb over a 120*45*45 tank would produce enough light to grow anything.


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## JamesC (7 Aug 2009)

Oh, yes I missed that and I think you would be right as well. Two bulbs on that size tank would be nowhere near enough light. People who have used energy saving lights that I have seen have used about 8 on a tank that size.

James


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## dkm (7 Aug 2009)

Food for thought.

Well I dont really believe that the manufacturers claims about how much a energy saving bulb is equivalent to but thought it might be worth experimenting with. The only way of knowing how much light they give off in comparison to MV is to measure the par. Milla I think you may be right. That's why I am asking to get other peoples experiences. Cheers.

So it looks like I would need a lot more bulbs in peoples opinions / experience. Ok might have to stick with MV but will still experiment before the tank is set up. Fortunately the MV bulbs I have are very white burning.

Now does anyone know how the law is going to affect the use of MV bulbs? I have heard that very soon you wont be able to get them any more! Not really a problem since I have managed to obtain 20 MV bulbs. But will I be able to use them?

Thanks for the input.

Dave


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## JamesC (7 Aug 2009)

dkm said:
			
		

> Now does anyone know how the law is going to affect the use of MV bulbs? I have heard that very soon you wont be able to get them any more! Not really a problem since I have managed to obtain 20 MV bulbs. But will I be able to use them?


I heard too that they were going to put a stop to mercury vapour bulbs, but have now idea when or if it is indeed still going ahead. If you already have spare bulbs then you have no worries, that is until you run out.

Even fluorescent tubes contain mercury vapour and shouldn't actually be chucked in the bin when disposing of, but be properly recycled. Who does though?

James


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## Themuleous (7 Aug 2009)

JamesC said:
			
		

> Even fluorescent tubes contain mercury vapour and shouldn't actually be chucked in the bin when disposing of, but be properly recycled. Who does though?



Me!!!


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## JamesC (7 Aug 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Me!!!


I'm impressed. Well done Sam  

James


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## fourmations (7 Aug 2009)

hi there

im no expert but have read a lot

I have read that "restrike" is a problem with spiral bulbs
(ie the spiral section just shine into each other if that makes sense)

so thats why tubes are preffered in general

just what i read...
let us know how you get on

rgds

4


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## dkm (7 Aug 2009)

This is what I have found out so far:

'Frosted bulbs banned from 1st September 2009
Once the Directive is in force and existing stocks have been exhausted, retailers in the EU will no longer be able to supply bulbs with a frosted, opal, pearl or other opaque finish unless they are category A energy savers. With current technology, this effectively means that the only bulbs which will be available will use compact fluorescent technology. Please note that this does NOT apply to directional (reflector) lamps such as spotlights nor does it apply to most types of striplight. Some special purpose lamps such as oven lamps are also excluded. Many types of household bulbs such as candles, golfball, globes and standard light bulbs as shown here will however be banned.

Phasing out of clear bulbs
Recognising that it is more difficult to replace clear bulbs with energy saving versions, the Directive provides for a banning of the least energy efficient clear bulbs in categories F and G and a phased removal of clear bulbs which are less efficient than category C. This effectively means that only the most efficient types of halogen energy saver bulbs will be able to meet the new requirements. The phase-out is as follows:-

# All clear bulbs must be category E or better from 1st September 2009
# 100W bulbs and above must be category C or better from 1st September 2009
# 75W bulbs and above must be category C or better from 1st September 2010
# 60W bulbs and above must be category C or better from 1st September 2011
# All clear bulbs must be category C or better from 1st September 2012'

This is an exert from http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/articl ... -bulb-ban/

Then again things may have changed since this has been written.

Dave


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## dkm (7 Aug 2009)

If this is being brought in to force I cannot see how a 125w MV bulb will reach a cat C rating. Therefore will not be available after 1st Sept 09. IMO

Dave


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## Sarutobi (11 Aug 2009)

So I'm guessing if you are going to get energy saving bulbs, they are fluorescent light tubes?? like T8 or T5 long tubes like that??  Do you have a metal halide cover so then you can put in a bulb like that that can shine light over the tank?   I don't really know if energy saving bulbs are good.  It might depend on how well they work out.  I don't use energy saving bulbs.  Mine are T8 and only about 20 Watts.  I want stronger wattage for my 29 gallon tank like 30W 10,000k something like that.

Are the energy saving bulbs working well?


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## GreenNeedle (11 Aug 2009)

Your T8s are the same as 'energy saving' lamps.  They are only called 'energy saving' because they use less electricity to produce the same light as an incandescent.  In essence they use as much power for 11W as a linear fluorescent on an electronic ballast.

Restrike is the major issue for our needs.  In the house we want the light to be emitted in all directions so the spiral or double bend 'bulbs' are fit for purpose here.  In our hobby we want to gather all the light and redirect it downawards.  That means you would need a reflector that folows the piral redirecting light outwards and then another outer reflector redirecting the light downward.  For that effor and cost then it would be pointless.  This is one reason why the CFs we already use are not as good as linears as it is virtually impossible (for a reasonable cost) to manufacture a reflector that pulls the light from 1 side of the bent tube and then avoid restiking both tubes on the return.

The bulbs we use in the houses are not 'dimmer' than incandescents.  They are 2700K which looks dim anyway.  Foolish decision by the UK to use 'very warm white' instead of daylight.  The 6500K ones in a house situation look as bright as the comparison statements suggest to me although like James says this can differ from bulb to bulb.

AC


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## Sarutobi (11 Aug 2009)

Ah I see.

So how often should I change my bulbs?  Once a year?  I was thinking of getting a T5 HO fixture for my aquarium from a local pet store I live nearby.   I just hope that stronger light will help my plants grow faster or so...  Or probably get C02 to be put into my tank.  With just the regular T8 light.


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## GreenNeedle (12 Aug 2009)

Sarutobi said:
			
		

> Ah I see.
> 
> So how often should I change my bulbs?  Once a year?  I was thinking of getting a T5 HO fixture for my aquarium from a local pet store I live nearby.   I just hope that stronger light will help my plants grow faster or so...  Or probably get C02 to be put into my tank.  With just the regular T8 light.



The 6 month to a year 'rule' is a long standing one but was based on the technology of the time which was T8 or older and using magnetic (electric) ballasts (The ones with the seperate circular cylinder starter)

If using an electronic (not electric) ballast as all T5HO do then this rule is garbage.  It is suggested that electronic ballasts with fluorescent tubes (including T8) will lose approx 5% over the first 40% of their life.  T5HO life can be stated as much as 35000 hours so if we err on the conservative side and suggest their life is 20000 hours then 40% would be 8000 hours.  8000/8 hours a day = 1000 days.  Nearly 3 years and that is conservative!!!

So in essence chuck the old 'replace tubes every year' rule in the bin.  I would suggest buying quality tubes to start with though 

AC


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## Sarutobi (12 Aug 2009)

Hmm.  I don't quite get what you are saying.  Sorry.

So are you saying that T5 HO lights only last for approx 3 yrs?  Since you said 1000 hrs = 3 yrs.


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## andy (12 Aug 2009)

I used 10 of these   http://www.ebulbshop.com/acatalog/Energ ... esign.html  on my 5 foot rena tank and the plants grew like mad.  There are other sizes available.


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## Sarutobi (12 Aug 2009)

Only 18 watts?  Wow!  Are they bright?


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## GreenNeedle (12 Aug 2009)

No  I am saying that T5HO manufacturers often state a life of 35000 hours which at 8 hours a day would mean it would last for 4375 days and that is 12 years.

However manufacturers will give the most attractive figures possible and in the latter years the tube will not be giving out much performance whilst using the same power.

Rather than use 35000 hours I said 20000 to be much more realistic in terms of reasonable light output.  To me the life of the lamp is how long it is useful and not how long until the final lumen disappears.

However people want their lights to be peak over the aquarium and not faltering slowly and therefore replace them way before the tubes' life is ended.  So if the tube on a modern electronic ballast only loses 5% of its lumens after 40% life then we can say that 40% life is between 8000 and 14000 hours.  I would err more towards the lower end as I don't believe the manufacturers' optimistic statements 

The manufacturer wants you to buy their product because it lasts the longest but charges a premium price for it.  The retailer however wants you to buy the premium price product and then replace it much more often than necessary.  If a 'golden rule' helps them out they are quite pleased to 'agree' with it 

AC


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## dkm (17 Aug 2009)

Right my experiments are not going well. So......



My attention has turned to LED. This is what I am looking at http://www.electricity-monitor.com/evol ... -p-89.html

Now these are getting good reviews. Just ordered one to try. If it does not work out I can use it in my study ceiling light. As far as i am lead to believe these have a wide dispersal of light so being in the bresslein reflector should help direct all the light down onto my aquarium. 

Lets see what happens!

Not cheap though!

Dave


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## dkm (18 Aug 2009)

Things are on the up.

My EvoLux bulb arrived today. First impression is wow!

It is bright. The 'eye test' was it was as nearly as bright as my MV set at 80w, brighter than a 60w incandescent standard bulb. I put one of each in my bresslein reflectors next to each other to get a side by side comparison. It came out really well. I would say color wise it has a slight yellow tinge to it but nothing to moan about. I know its not a definitive way of testing but to my eyes is somewhere between the 60w and 80w mark. A meter would be good to check it though. The light due to being more inset into the pendant than the MV has less sideways leakage of light and more light is focused downwards.

So if I a run three in my pendants that should equate to at least approx 180w above a 60G aquarium (3wpg). Hopefully should be enough. Only trying to grow plants under it, will it become apparent if it is good or not! So may try and get hold of two 6000k ones. Run the 3000k I have been testing in the middle and the two 6000k either side. Only time will tell.

After running it for 4 hours tonight the pendant is still cool and the bulb is only slightly warm. This is mainly due to the built in fan in the bulb. When ordering the bulb this was a concern. Would it be noisy with the fan but to my surprise it is very quiet indeed. Only just audible from point blank range. Coming from a marine background I (and my very understanding wife) are use to noisy ish aquariums! But this aquarium I want as silent as possible. So happy about this factor.


Pros:

13w power consumption each!
Cool running
bright
safer than mercury vapor and more 'eco friendly' (no mercury)
lasts >50,000 hours each!
less light leakage

Cons:

cost (Â£40 each!!!) can be off set by running cost
extremely low hum from fan

So to me the pros outway the cons. If plants will grow under them!

Now only need my aquarium to finally turn up. Been on order for the last 8 weeks. Lets see what happens.

dave


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