# Another tank cycling question . . . kind of . . .



## Wookii (22 Nov 2019)

Let me start by saying I've read enough threads on this forum to appreciate that the consensus, certainly on this forum, seems to be generally against artificial tank cycling with added ammonia. 

Normally I wouldn't consider this approach anyway, I never used added ammonia 16 years ago when I used to have planted tanks, I would just add the plants, on tank set-up, and once I was happy the plants had grown large enough, I'd slowly start adding some fish.

That however was me, just putting together tanks purely for myself - I like the plants almost as much as the fish and shrimp, so I was happy for the required extended wait.

This new 60 litre tank I am putting together however is also for my 7 year old son (well it's supposed to be mainly for my son, but I'm hijacking it by making it a high tech fully planted tank!).

Anyone who has had a 7 year old involved with tanks, will probably appreciate that its usually not about the plants for them, its all about the critters. Those people will probably also appreciate that few 7 year olds would maintain interest waiting 6-8 weeks for a planted tank to develop biologically, sufficiently to start supporting fauna.

To add to the 'delay', whilst much of the tank is ready and mostly set-up (or will be finalised in the next week or so) including filtration, substrate, hard scape ready to assemble etc, some key things are to be Christmas presents for my son, including the light, glass ware and plants. So I can't plant it yet anyway, and he's currently staring at an empty tank set up in his room.

My current thinking therefore is I could finish setting the tank up now, and artificially cycle it over the next 5 weeks, without lights, to mature the filter and substrate and establish the biological filtration in readiness for Christmas. 

Then on Christmas day/Boxing Day we can have some father and son time draining the tank to the substrate and planting his new plants, adding the light and glass ware, before re-filling, setting up the CO2 and allowing them to grow in for a week or two.

At that point I would hope the tank, with the pre-cycling and the later added plant mass, would have sufficient biological filtration capacity to support some shrimp and a few fish. Job done - sons interest maintained.

I appreciate it's not the purist approach of planting right at the start and waiting 6-8 weeks - but do you think its an acceptable approach given the unique constraints and the desire to reduce the gap between Christmas day and critter introduction?


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## Thumper (22 Nov 2019)

Thats exactly how James Findley from TGM cycled most of his tanks. I dont see any reason not to do it. You might want to add some bottle of bacterias (Seachem stability, Microbelift NiteOut2) to get a headstart


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## dw1305 (22 Nov 2019)

Hi all





Wookii said:


> My current thinking therefore is I could finish setting the tank up now, and artificially cycle it over the next 5 weeks, without lights, to mature the filter and substrate and establish the biological filtration in readiness for Christmas.


You could.

You probably won't get an appropriate microbial flora, <"but it would be a start">. If you did want to go down this route I still wouldn't add any more than a trace <"amount of ammonia">. 

Any amount of time set-up, and wet, is better than no time at all.





Thumper said:


> You might want to add some bottle of bacterias (Seachem stability, Microbelift NiteOut2) to get a headstart


They aren't products that I'm ever going to use, and I don't know how available it is in the UK, but if I was going down this particular avenue I might try one <"Tim Hovanec's"> <"products">.

@jaypeecee has used <"Tetra SafeStart"> recently, so I'll add him in. My guess would be that a small amount of garden soil would be equally effective as a microbial innoculum.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (22 Nov 2019)

What I did to get the filter ready for getting the tank/filter suitable for inmates as soon as possible after my DSM is during the DSM period I set the filter up in the garage with a Bin full of water with the filter and media fitted and just added some waste products for the filter bacteria to work thrive on, just used an empty glass filled up up with privacy with my urine and put it in the bin a few times a week and it worked a treat as had inmates in tank within a week. Although my substrate would have already cycled because of the DSM OFC but all depends on what substrate you plan to use OFC. I would use the same precycling technique again without hesitation with the addition of adding a few plants (weeds) roots from the garden into the bin also as a quick source of bacteria from the garden to speed up the cycling/bacterial colonization process.


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## Parablennius (22 Nov 2019)

Zeus. said:


> just used an empty glass filled up up with privacy with my urine and put it in the bin a few times a week and it worked a treat


I too have done this in the past!


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## Wookii (22 Nov 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi allYou could.
> 
> You probably won't get an appropriate microbial flora, <"but it would be a start">. If you did want to go down this route I still wouldn't add any more than a trace <"amount of ammonia">.
> 
> ...



Thanks Darrel - yeah I’m not going to go crazy with the ammonia - just a minimal amount.

The substrate will be Tropica Soil Powder - I’ve read it gives off a small amount of ammonia on its own initially - though not nearly as much as the ADA stuff, so I may not need to add much of any ammonia at the start.

I must admit I have bought a few ‘bacteria’ additives already -  before reading of their possibly dubious benefit on this forum - some clear EA balls to stick in the base of the Eheim filter, some Bacter 100 to add to the substrate, and some Fluval Cycle for the water column. All probably unnecessary now you mention the soil idea, but I may as well use it as I have it.


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## Wookii (22 Nov 2019)

Zeus. said:


> What I did to get the filter ready for getting the tank/filter suitable for inmates as soon as possible after my DSM is during the DSM period I set the filter up in the garage with a Bin full of water with the filter and media fitted and just added some waste products for the filter bacteria to work thrive on, just used an empty glass filled up up with privacy with my urine and put it in the bin a few times a week and it worked a treat as had inmates in tank within a week. Although my substrate would have already cycled because of the DSM OFC but all depends on what substrate you plan to use OFC. I would use the same precycling technique again without hesitation with the addition of adding a few plants (weeds) roots from the garden into the bin also as a quick source of bacteria from the garden to speed up the cycling/bacterial colonization process.



lol that takes the piss! . . . Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Thanks for the tips - I did think of cycling the filter on its own in the garage, but as the tank is already sat there, and the substrate and hardscape is ready to implement, I figured I may as well cycle with the whole tank, and then at least the substrate and hardscape will hopefully have some useful bacterial content also.


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2019)

Hi @Wookii 

You have plenty of time to get a tank ready before Christmas. I see that you have a 60 litre tank. Are you planning to use tap water and, if so, please get a copy of your water company's most recent water report. You will also need a test kit in order to carry out some important tests. The following kit seems quite popular and it covers all the water parameters that you will need to measure:

https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/aquarium-lab/aquarium-lab-multi-test/

You will also need a source of ammonia. _Dr Tim's Ammonium Chloride_ is a good choice and it's available from Amazon UK. You will need a bottle of _Tetra SafeStart_ which you can also get from Amazon UK - a 100ml bottle should be adequate. You mention 'filtration'. Which filter are you using? And you will need a thermostatically-controlled heater plus a separate thermometer. As you're using tap water, you will need a tap water conditioner. I understand that _API Tap Water Conditioner_ is a good choice and guess where you can get that from? Yes, Amazon UK.

That's probably all that you need to know right now. More to follow when you've got all the above and ready for the next stage.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2019)

Wookii said:


> I must admit I have bought a few ‘bacteria’ additives already -  before reading of their possibly dubious benefit on this forum - some clear EA balls to stick in the base of the Eheim filter, some Bacter 100 to add to the substrate, and some Fluval Cycle for the water column. All probably unnecessary now you mention the soil idea, but I may as well use it as I have it.



Hi @Wookii 

We probably will not need to use any of the products you have listed. I would advise against using them just because you have them. Hold onto them for now and return them for a refund, if necessary, at a later stage.

JPC


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## Wookii (22 Nov 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> You have plenty of time to get a tank ready before Christmas. I see that you have a 60 litre tank. Are you planning to use tap water and, if so, please get a copy of your water company's most recent water report. You will also need a test kit in order to carry out some important tests. The following kit seems quite popular and it covers all the water parameters that you will need to measure:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the pointers - I’m coming back to owning a planted tank after 16 years away, so I have most of the kit already. The tank is one of my older ones, and I have my old Eheim Pro 2 2028 with several boxes of new media ready to go, plus all the CO2 kit ready for when we add plants, and the EI feet kit arrived this week curtesy of AFPUK.

I also have a couple of decent quality heaters to set up with, but again one of my sons Christmas gifts is one of the Hydor in-line units together with an Inkbird controller, as he very astutely pointed out that he disliked seeing any equipment in the tank the first time we went to the LFS - maybe I introduced him to my Takashi Amano books too early!!

I have bought a basic dip test kit just to ensure I’m showing zero ammonia and nitrites before adding livestock, and have a 2 litre bottle of Fluval Aqua plus which will auto-dose into an automatic water change header tank I’ve hooked up with a couple of solenoid’s.

I also already have the Dr Tim’s bottle, from Amazon as you say.

All I’m waiting on now is the arrival of a Lifegard bulk head fitting from the US so I can plug the hole I successfully cut in the tank last weekend.

Once that’s in place I we will be ready to scape and fill!


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2019)

Wookii said:


> I have bought a basic dip test kit just to ensure I’m showing zero ammonia and nitrites before adding livestock, and have a 2 litre bottle of Fluval Aqua plus which will auto-dose into an automatic water change header tank I’ve hooked up with a couple of solenoid’s.
> 
> I also already have the Dr Tim’s bottle, from Amazon as you say.
> 
> ...



Hi @Wookii 

The dip test kit will not be adequate for the job. Hobbyist dip tests are notoriously inaccurate. Liquid test kits are far superior. Plus, you will need to test for nitrate. The Fluval Aqua Plus sounds as if it contains aloe vera having read the online description - not a good idea if you are planning to keep anabantids such as Gouramis. Which 'Dr Tim's bottle' do you have? There are two that you need.

JPC


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## Wookii (22 Nov 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> The dip test kit will not be adequate for the job. Hobbyist dip tests are notoriously inaccurate. Liquid test kits are far superior. Plus, you will need to test for nitrate. The Fluval Aqua Plus sounds as if it contains aloe vera having read the online description - not a good idea if you are planning to keep anabantids such as Gouramis. Which 'Dr Tim's bottle' do you have? There are two that you need.
> 
> JPC



To be honest I’m no too worried about accurate ammonia and nitrite readings, just zero or non-zero, and I’m not worried about measuring nitrates as I’ll be dosing those in excess in due course anyway.

AquaPlus does does contain something like Aloe I think - not ideal, I did want to use Seachem Prime, but Seachem confirmed to me that it can’t be mixed with DI water to use with an auto-doser that ideally needs to dose in the 5ml range at a time. We won’t be having any Gouramis though, my son is dead set in Guppies and Platys.

I have the Dr Tim’s ammonia - I only need that one, as I just need a source of ammonia and honestly didn’t think of peeing in the tank lol


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2019)

Wookii said:


> To be honest I’m no too worried about accurate ammonia and nitrite readings, just zero or non-zero, and I’m not worried about measuring nitrates as I’ll be dosing those in excess in due course anyway.
> 
> I have the Dr Tim’s ammonia - I only need that one, as I just need a source of ammonia and honestly didn’t think of peeing in the tank lol



Hi @Wookii 

Without being able to accurately monitor ammonia and nitrite, it will be difficult to see how well the cycle is progressing - if at all. And measuring nitrate will be evidence that the cycle is close to completion. It's very likely that your chosen bacterial products will let you down. That's why bottled bacteria gained a poor reputation with fishkeepers. But, _Tetra SafeStart_ has been proven by many (including myself) to be trustworthy. One of the main reasons for this is that it uses Nitrospira bacteria instead of Nitrobacter to convert nitrite into nitrate. Dr Tim Hovanec, who developed the _SafeStart_ formula, was the man who correctly identified Nitrospira moscoviensis as being the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in aquaria.

Water temperature, pH and KH all play an important part in ensuring a successful cycle. I have cycled tanks in just one week using _SafeStart_ after which I have been able to add fish to the tank. Plants can be added a couple of weeks later.

JPC


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## Zeus. (22 Nov 2019)

Wookii said:


> I just need a source of ammonia and honestly didn’t think of peeing in the tank lol



Well salts are salts and its premixed and I would of thought very similar to what fish excrete seeing we all evolved from fish long ago, plus the advantage of using a mans urine is because of the reality long length of the urethra in males unless you have a bladder infection urine from men tends to have very few 'if any' bacteria


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## dean (24 Nov 2019)

If I’m right you already have aquariums set up and this is one for your son 

If that’s right why don’t you use some the mature filter media in your sons setup ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wookii (24 Nov 2019)

dean said:


> If I’m right you already have aquariums set up and this is one for your son
> 
> If that’s right why don’t you use some the mature filter media in your sons setup ?
> 
> ...



No, I don’t have any aquariums set up currently. The last one I had set up was 16 years ago - at that time I had several planted tanks. So I have much of the kit, but no mature filter media, otherwise yes, that would have been my plan.


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## Wookii (29 Nov 2019)

Well, the tank is set-up and ‘cycling’ (I’m aware that isn’t a popular term).

I’ve added no ammonia at all yet, but the readings are already high - so much for Tropica soil not releasing much of it I guess!






Guessing this is somewhere between 2-4ppm


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## MJQMJQ (30 Nov 2019)

Wookii said:


> Well, the tank is set-up and ‘cycling’ (I’m aware that isn’t a popular term).
> 
> I’ve added no ammonia at all yet, but the readings are already high - so much for Tropica soil not releasing much of it I guess!
> 
> ...


yep abt 2.5-3 ppm


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (30 Nov 2019)

Worth getting another reading early on tomorrow and doing a water change to make sure it goes no higher than that.


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## Wookii (11 Dec 2019)

Well, just by way of an update, the ammonia levels are gradually reducing, and nitrites are at significant levels. I've done four 50% water changes since starting to try and keep levels of both lower, so I'm hoping the nitrites will be on the way down soon also.

Incidentally I haven't even opened the bottle of Dr Tims Ammonia yet - all the ammonia is being, and continues to be, leached into the tank by the Tropica Soil Powder substrate!


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## jaypeecee (11 Dec 2019)

Wookii said:


> Well, just by way of an update, the ammonia levels are gradually reducing, and nitrites are at significant levels. I've done four 50% water changes since starting to try and keep levels of both lower, so I'm hoping the nitrites will be on the way down soon also.
> 
> Incidentally I haven't even opened the bottle of Dr Tims Ammonia yet - all the ammonia is being, and continues to be, leached into the tank by the Tropica Soil Powder substrate!



Hi @Wookii

Thanks for the update.

What are your present ammonia and nitrite levels? Which bacterial supplement, if any, did you use? I'm not familiar with the Tropica Soil Powder substrate material. I guess the statement "We recommend that you change 25-50% of the water min. twice a week during the first 4 weeks after establishing the aquarium" is an indication for the potential leaching of ammonia.

JPC


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## Wookii (12 Dec 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> Thanks for the update.
> 
> ...



Ammonia is decreasing daily, so it's down to less than 1ppm now (somewhere between 0.5 and 0.25), Nitirite is higher at around 2ppm. Obviously I don't know if the ammonia reduction is the result of the soils slowing down on its release, or the filter bacteria ramping up processing capacity. I'm hoping the latter.

The bacteria products I added were those listed in my post above, though I've also recently added a bottle of Tetra Safe Start, following your recommendation, in the hope that is boosts the bacteria required to reduce the nitrites.

In any case the water is nice and clear, and there is a nice  bio-film forming on the wood and rocks, so I think I'm all good. Hopefully by Christmas day I'll be down to zero readings for both, and we can add the plants, and then start thinking about adding some shrimp if levels remain at zero.


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## jaypeecee (12 Dec 2019)

Hi @Wookii 

In order for the nitrifying bacteria to multiply in numbers, they obviously use nitrogen (from ammonia, for example), carbon (from CO2 or carbonate buffering) and phosphorus (e.g. from phosphate). Other elements are needed in trace quantities all of which are likely to be in your tap water. As the population of bacteria grows, they can exhaust the supply of carbon. It is therefore wise to keep a watch on KH/alkalinity. If KH falls below 4dH, adding KH buffers will be needed. You may be fully aware of this but I mention it for completeness.

JPC


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## Wookii (13 Dec 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> In order for the nitrifying bacteria to multiply in numbers, they obviously use nitrogen (from ammonia, for example), carbon (from CO2 or carbonate buffering) and phosphorus (e.g. from phosphate). Other elements are needed in trace quantities all of which are likely to be in your tap water. As the population of bacteria grows, they can exhaust the supply of carbon. It is therefore wise to keep a watch on KH/alkalinity. If KH falls below 4dH, adding KH buffers will be needed. You may be fully aware of this but I mention it for completeness.
> 
> JPC



Thanks for the pointers - no I wan't aware of much of that to be fair.

Our tap water is fairly hard (high GH), so I suspect there there is plenty of calcium carbonate for the bacteria to go at. KH is average, though the soil is buffering it down I think, and lowering the PH, but then I am doing regular 50% water changes, so there should be plenty of KH being added back in regularly. 

As for phosphate, I'm not sure. I'm loathed to buy yet another expensive test kit. My water company test report doesn't seem to declare phosphate levels either. I do have Potassium Phosphate in my APKUK starter kit that I purchased recently in readiness for adding plants - would dosing a small amount of that be appropriate?


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## jaypeecee (13 Dec 2019)

Wookii said:


> As for phosphate, I'm not sure. I'm loathed to buy yet another expensive test kit. My water company test report doesn't seem to declare phosphate levels either. I do have Potassium Phosphate in my APKUK starter kit that I purchased recently in readiness for adding plants - would dosing a small amount of that be appropriate?



Hi @Wookii 

I'm not sure why water companies are not required to include phosphate in their water reports. And I understand your reluctance to buy a phosphate test kit. I would hold back on the potassium phosphate at the moment but, if the cycle (sorry @dw1305) appears to be stalling, we may need to think again.

JPC


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## dw1305 (13 Dec 2019)

Hi all, 





jaypeecee said:


> I'm not sure why water companies are not required to include phosphate in their water reports.


It isn't <"hazardous to health">, so there isn't a maximum permitted value. 

There will be <"discharge limits"> (set by the <"Water Framework Directive">) for discharge of water back to the rivers from sewage treatment etc. It is in the water companies interests to minimize the amount they use, but they have to ensure there are enough PO4-- ions so that any lead ions (Pb++) in the water supply are removed. The lead (Pb) limit in drinking water <"is 10 ppb"> .  





jaypeecee said:


> I would hold back on the potassium phosphate at the moment but, if the cycle (sorry @dw1305) appears to be stalling


I don't think there will be any issue with lack of PO4--- during "cycling", but I can see any down-side to adding a small amount if you want "belt and braces". 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (13 Dec 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I don't think there will be any issue with lack of PO4--- during "cycling", but I can see any down-side to adding a small amount if you want "belt and braces".
> 
> cheers Darrel



I am a fan of a belt and braces approach so I’ll add some tonight - I have no lights on the tank so it won’t cause any algae issues, so I guess there’s nothing to lose.


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## jaypeecee (13 Dec 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I don't think there will be any issue with lack of PO4--- during "cycling", but I can see any down-side to adding a small amount if you want "belt and braces".



Hi @dw1305 and @Wookii

The phosphate is required as it provides the 'P' of ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate), which apparently provides energy for living cells. But, very little phosphate is required. According to Meiklejohn et al in _Nature_ 170, 1131 (1952), a mere 0.02 mg/litre is the minimum amount needed. Darrel, you may have more recent information than me but this is the figure that I use. As my starting point is RO water, I need to supplement phosphate and a few other compounds or elements.

JPC


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (13 Dec 2019)

dw1305 said:


> There will be <"discharge limits"> (set by the <"Water Framework Directive">) for discharge of water back to the rivers from sewage treatment etc. It is in the water companies interests to minimize the amount they use, but they have to ensure there are enough PO4-- ions so that any lead ions (Pb++) in the water supply are removed. The lead (Pb) limit in drinking water <"is 10 ppb"> .



Depends on the sensitivity of the watercourse as to whether there is a phosphorus limit set and how tight the limit is set. Contribution by industry is a far bigger issue than the amounts often found in drinking water in most cases. It's not the easiest to remove with current technologies either.


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## jaypeecee (13 Dec 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> In order for the nitrifying bacteria to multiply in numbers, they obviously use nitrogen (from ammonia, for example), carbon (from CO2 or carbonate buffering) and phosphorus (e.g. from phosphate). Other elements are needed in trace quantities all of which are likely to be in your tap water. As the population of bacteria grows, they can exhaust the supply of carbon. It is therefore wise to keep a watch on KH/alkalinity. If KH falls below 4dH, adding KH buffers will be needed. You may be fully aware of this but I mention it for completeness.
> 
> JPC



Hi Folks,

Did anyone spot the deliberate (!) omission from the list of elements above? You got it - oxygen!

JPC


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## david boden (14 Dec 2019)

hi fellas-----I don't mean to butt in, but I can't help saying that ( in my experience), tank cycling" is a perfectly simple , and quite natural process, that requires NO chemical interventions from humans.
I do really appreciate that you're very chemical compound aware, ( I am not),---- but flippin' heck, you ain't half over complicating things here.
Darrel and I have agreed before (based on our experience ), that a well planted tank, included floaters, furnished with some organics ( wood, substrate )---will become a far more balanced consumer of  Ammonium, Nitrite, and  Nitrate than a mechanical filter.
Sure, you do  benefit from the mechanical filter for water flow, and surface agitation, ---but pouring various compounds into your tank for the filter media,, and then testing daily trying to get rid of 'em,    will do your head in if you're not careful.
I say, water , organics, plants , oxygenation , and a fish food pellet once a week for a month will do the job nicely----obviously then followed by additions of livestock in small increments.

I have drawers full of test kits, but I never use them now,-----I have total confidence in nature itself  to consume that delicious Ammonium etc.in my tank.
I would just add that when fully stocked and feeding later on, that the addition of a cutting of Golden Pothos sticking out of the water at the back of your tank , will deal with most nitrate build up that occurs-----it's the James Dyson of Nitrate !
Anyway, I'm not preaching the Gospel, just trying to help and simplify things for ya .
Regards David.


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## Wookii (14 Dec 2019)

david boden said:


> hi fellas-----I don't mean to butt in, but I can't help saying that ( in my experience), tank cycling" is a perfectly simple , and quite natural process, that requires NO chemical interventions from humans.
> I do really appreciate that you're very chemical compound aware, ( I am not),---- but flippin' heck, you ain't half over complicating things here.
> Darrel and I have agreed before (based on our experience ), that a well planted tank, included floaters, furnished with some organics ( wood, substrate )---will become a far more balanced consumer of  Ammonium, Nitrite, and  Nitrate than a mechanical filter.
> Sure, you do  benefit from the mechanical filter for water flow, and surface agitation, ---but pouring various compounds into your tank for the filter media,, and then testing daily trying to get rid of 'em,    will do your head in if you're not careful.
> ...



Thanks for you input, and generally I agree whole heartedly, but if you read my first post, you will understand my requirement for cycling without plants in this somewhat unusual instance.


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## david boden (14 Dec 2019)

Oh right Wooki-----I never read anything properly, I just sign it !!


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## dw1305 (14 Dec 2019)

Hi all,





Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Contribution by industry is a far bigger issue than the amounts often found in drinking water in most cases.


It is, have a look through <"Open University Eutrophication">. The largest source is from <"agriculture via the runoff of soil particles">.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (14 Dec 2019)

david boden said:


> Oh right Wooki-----I never read anything properly, I just sign it !!



lol I’m exactly the same - skim reading has caught me out more times than I care to admit!


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (14 Dec 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,It is, have a look through <"Open University Eutrophication">. The largest source is from <"agriculture via the runoff of soil particles">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Quite right that agriculture is a significant contributor to river this levels but perhaps I could have been clearer. The wastewater company has significant contribution from industry to their influent at the treatment works.


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## jaypeecee (15 Dec 2019)

david boden said:


> ...but flippin' heck, you ain't half over complicating things here....pouring various compounds into your tank for the filter media,, and then testing daily trying to get rid of 'em,    will do your head in if you're not careful...I have drawers full of test kits, but I never use them now,-----I have total confidence in nature itself  to consume that delicious Ammonium etc.in my tank...Anyway, I'm not preaching the Gospel, just trying to help and simplify things for ya



Hi @david boden 

Fear not, David. The only 'chemical' that needs to be added to the tank water (when using dechlorinated tap water) is a tiny amount of ammonia. And then a live bacteria culture. What's difficult about that? I don't understand your comment about 'trying to get rid of 'em'. The bacteria consumes the ammonia and the rest follows - naturally. Testing is carried out simply to confirm that the process is progressing. As opposed to finding out at a later stage that the process has stalled for a variety of reasons, one of which may be a lack of oxygen due to inadequate aeration. But, with my science background, I get a buzz out of 'seeing' what's going on rather than staring at a tank full of water. There are also plenty of times when fishkeepers can't wait a month or more to get a tank ready for housing fish. I, for one, would have lost quite a few fish had I not intervened by cycling a tank 'artificially'. So, thanks for your offer of simplifying things but there's nothing that needs to be simplified.

JPC


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## david boden (15 Dec 2019)

Fair enough Sir----I get ya drift.
Bye for now.


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## jaypeecee (15 Dec 2019)

david boden said:


> Fair enough Sir----I get ya drift.
> Bye for now.


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## Ch.e.d.a. (15 Dec 2019)

Ok guys, i have a urgent question, my plants arived early for a new tank but my lily pipes got stuck with courier. So i wanted to plant a tank and let circulation pumps rum untill i can run my filter, tank is not cycled and u will have filter running in 2 days. Can or should i plant and flood a tank and let it run on just pumps?


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## Wookii (16 Dec 2019)

Ch.e.d.a. said:


> Ok guys, i have a urgent question, my plants arived early for a new tank but my lily pipes got stuck with courier. So i wanted to plant a tank and let circulation pumps rum untill i can run my filter, tank is not cycled and u will have filter running in 2 days. Can or should i plant and flood a tank and let it run on just pumps?



It's probably worth you starting a new thread, as you'll likely get more answers, but if it's only two days until you add the filter, I'm sure you'll be fine. Many people run plant only tanks without a filter anyway. Also, depending on how far your plants have travelled to get to you, they should be fine stored in a cool dark place for two days if you wanted to wait for the filter to be up and running, but personally I would just plant now and add the filter in two days.


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## MJQMJQ (17 Dec 2019)

Ch.e.d.a. said:


> Ok guys, i have a urgent question, my plants arived early for a new tank but my lily pipes got stuck with courier. So i wanted to plant a tank and let circulation pumps rum untill i can run my filter, tank is not cycled and u will have filter running in 2 days. Can or should i plant and flood a tank and let it run on just pumps?



Depends on how strong the current is.The lily pipe's job is to reduce current while also looking good. Beware as buceps, some other more sensitive plants can melt from ammonia.Of course best thing when starting out is to have more easy stem plants then slowly replace with other types of plants.


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## jaypeecee (25 Dec 2019)

Wookii said:


> Then on Christmas day/Boxing Day we can have some father and son time draining the tank to the substrate and planting his new plants, adding the light and glass ware, before re-filling, setting up the CO2 and allowing them to grow in for a week or two.



Hi @Wookii 

When you get a spare moment from the Christmas festivities, I'd be very interested in an update on your son's tank.

BTW, Happy Christmas!

JPC


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## Wookii (26 Dec 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> When you get a spare moment from the Christmas festivities, I'd be very interested in an update on your son's tank.
> 
> ...



Hey, Happy Christmas to you too!

Well by means of an update the tank completed cycling about a week ago - well in so much as nitrites and ammonia were measuring zero. I’ve not added any external ammonia at any point, on the basis that the soil is presumably still leaching small amounts.

Christmas Day was very busy - I spent the morning setting up my elder sons electric drum kit, and after Christmas dinner setting up the my younger sons tank with the new heater, light and glass wear before draining it and planting a load of plants. I finally finished setting up the CO2 and cleaning the glass at about 11pm last night! So Boxing Day is now my relaxing day, drinking and eating as much as I can! Have a good one! Cheers, Gareth 

PS - I plan to post a journal thread in due course when I get a spare moment to type it up, so I’ll link to it here.


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## jaypeecee (26 Dec 2019)

Hi @Wookii 

Thanks for the update. Much appreciated.

I think you now deserve a well-earned rest!

JPC


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (26 Dec 2019)

Well you've had your rest now... get that all typed up!!


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## Wookii (8 Jan 2020)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Well you've had your rest now... get that all typed up!!



Finally got around to it!

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/roots-first-tank-after-16-years.59541/


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