# 60-P "Succession"



## JEK (23 Apr 2019)

Well, I'm hooked again. Just picked up an ADA 60-P. I have a pretty good idea about the hardscape already:





The lighting is a Twinstar 600ES. filtration will be an Eheim Classic 250 and an Azoo skimmer. The Eheim is maybe a bit weak for flow, but I will supplement with a powerhead if necessary. 
I haven't decided on plants yet, but for sure a variety of epiphytes on the wood and maybe also some moss. Probably also some crypts for the midground. I'm not sure about the foreground and background - maybe Eleocharis mini and Eleocharis vivipara in the background?

Originally I intended this to be a low-tech setup with the Twinstar dimmed to 50 or 25 % but I must admit that I'm tempted to get a CO2 system for it. I am, however a bit reluctant after stumbling upon some forum threads and a practical fishkeeping article about the potential negative (and invisible) long-term effects CO2-injection can have on fish and invertebrates. PFK article https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/blog/articles/does-co2-injection-cause-disease 
Barrreport thread: https://barrreport.com/threads/14-ppm-co2-proven-detrimental-for-freshwater-tropical-fish.14126/
Do you think observing normal behaviour and no deaths is good enough to assure that the CO2 levels used aren't harmful?  I'm not sure I think that's enough to claim that CO2 is harmless, so I'm struggling a bit with justifying CO2 injection at the moment. If someone can provide good arguments for justifying the use of CO2 (or the opposite) or just have some relevant knowledge on fish physiology and/or CO2 levels in nature you are very welcome to share it here.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (23 Apr 2019)

Really interesting reading thanks for posting these. I don’t feel I have enough experience to really comment on the effects on the fish, so I will simply say that it makes a lot of sense what has been said here...

It looks like 12ppm is the magic number to stay below from a fish point of view. As an exclusively non CO2 user myself, this leads me to ask; is this enough for medium plants? I suspect it would be? Can you effectively monitor these kinds of levels if drop checkers etc are set up for more like 30ppm?

That said, apart from your carpet you definitely won’t require high tech conditions. Perhaps it might be best to do a dry start to get the carpet going or to inject CO2 just at the start... or choose another carpeting plant of course. Lilaeopsis is pretty bullet proof in my experience even in a non CO2 system.

I wonder if there has been similar research done into the use of liquid carbon... I strongly suspect that there may be very similar consequences...


----------



## JEK (23 Apr 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Really interesting reading thanks for posting these. I don’t feel I have enough experience to really comment on the effects on the fish, so I will simply say that it makes a lot of sense what has been said here...


I agree. It's a complicated topic and tolerance probably varies a lot from species to species.


Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> It looks like 12ppm is the magic number to stay below from a fish point of view. As an exclusively non CO2 user myself, this leads me to ask; is this enough for medium plants? I suspect it would be? Can you effectively monitor these kinds of levels if drop checkers etc are set up for more like 30ppm?


I haven't tried it, but I would guess that it is perfectly fine for most plants - they'll just grow a bit slower. I know that you can purchase drop checker fluid for 20 ppm, but haven't seen anything lower than that. 



Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> That said, apart from your carpet you definitely won’t require high tech conditions. Perhaps it might be best to do a dry start to get the carpet going or to inject CO2 just at the start... or choose another carpeting plant of course. Lilaeopsis is pretty bullet proof in my experience even in a non CO2 system.


I've though about Lileaopsis and I haven't grown it before so it would be fun to try out!



Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> I wonder if there has been similar research done into the use of liquid carbon... I strongly suspect that there may be very similar consequences...



Good question! I also suspect that it isn't to healthy for fish (for other reasons than CO2), but I don't know much about it.


Tried changing the hardscape around a bit, critique is welcome.
View attachment pTXJJny.jpg


----------



## Jayefc1 (23 Apr 2019)

I dont really know much about the effects co2 has on fish but  I'm pretty sure most of us have open top tanks and more fish possibly die due to that than co2


----------



## CooKieS (24 Apr 2019)

My fishes are healthier than Ever in aquascaped high tech setup, glutamaldehide isn't good for animals buy only at very high dosage.

Cheers


----------



## dw1305 (24 Apr 2019)

Hi all, 
I'm not a CO2 user, partially because of the ethical issues. 

I think 





JEK said:


> tolerance probably varies a lot from species to species.


is right, and if I was adding CO2 I would keep away from fish from rivers or cooler water.  There is mention of the <"Bohr and Root"> effects in <"Surface agitation...."> (and <"linked threads">). 





JEK said:


> I know that you can purchase drop checker fluid for 20 ppm, but haven't seen anything lower than that.





Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Can you effectively monitor these kinds of levels if drop checkers etc are set up for more like 30ppm?


I think you can make your own, and that a 2dKH solution would give you the similar colour responses to a 4dKH solution, but with 1/2 the amount of CO2 (green-yellow at 15ppm CO2). 

You could dilute bought 4dKH solution with RO water, but you would probably need to add a bit more <"bromothymol blue"> pH indicator.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (24 Apr 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> I'm not a CO2 user, partially because of the ethical issues.
> 
> I think is right, and if I was adding CO2 I would keep away from fish from rivers or cooler water.  There is mention of the <"Bohr and Root"> effects in <"Surface agitation...."> (and <"linked threads">). I think you can make your own, and that a 2dKH solution would give you the similar colour responses to a 4dKH solution, but with 1/2 the amount of CO2 (green-yellow at 15ppm CO2).
> ...


Nice to hear I'm not the only one with these considerations. I think I will start out without CO2 and see how it goes. 

Does anyone have experience with apistos on powder soil substrate? Will they sift it or do they only do that with sand?


----------



## JEK (24 Apr 2019)

View attachment K1WiYXE.jpg
How do you like this compared to the other layout? More classic and "safe" but maybe also a bit boring?


----------



## dw1305 (24 Apr 2019)

Hi all,





JEK said:


> Does anyone have experience with apistos on powder soil substrate? Will they sift it or do they only do that with sand?


I've kept _A. agassizii_ in a tank with cat litter as a substrate and they still sifted the substrate.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (24 Apr 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,I've kept _A. agassizii_ in a tank with cat litter as a substrate and they still sifted the substrate.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks for replying, Darrel. The soil will get covered with the lileaopsis carpet with time though, so maybe best to have an unplanted area with sand in the foreground?


----------



## dw1305 (24 Apr 2019)

Hi all, 





JEK said:


> Thanks for replying, Darrel. The soil will get covered with the lileaopsis carpet with time though, so maybe best to have an unplanted area with sand in the foreground?


You could do, you may find that if it is both open and brightly lit they tend to avoid it. I  have a lot of moss and structural leaf litter in my tanks and looking through that tends to keep them occupied. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (24 Apr 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, You could do, you may find that if it is both open and brightly lit they tend to avoid it. I  have a lot of moss and structural leaf litter in my tanks and looking through that tends to keep them occupied.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hadn't thought of that. Thanks.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (24 Apr 2019)

JEK said:


> View attachment K1WiYXE.jpg
> How do you like this compared to the other layout? More classic and "safe" but maybe also a bit boring?


I very much prefer this layout. Classics are classic for a reason I guess! Looks really great seriously... maybe that vertical piece of wood is a little too vertical? Struggling to suggest much more!


----------



## JEK (24 Apr 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> I very much prefer this layout. Classics are classic for a reason I guess! Looks really great seriously... maybe that vertical piece of wood is a little too vertical? Struggling to suggest much more!


Thanks very much! I totally agree that the vertical piece is a bit too vertical. When all of the substrate is added it will be easier to make adjustments..


----------



## JEK (25 Apr 2019)

I think this will be the hardscape:
View attachment Szbywuz.jpg


----------



## Michal550 (25 Apr 2019)

looks very good. following.


----------



## CooKieS (25 Apr 2019)

JEK said:


> I think this will be the hardscape:
> View attachment Szbywuz.jpg



Classic nature aquarium style, nice flow of the roots. Nicely done!


----------



## JEK (25 Apr 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Classic nature aquarium style, nice flow of the roots. Nicely done!


Thank you! I'm really happy with it. Looking forward to plant it. 

Do you think the long branch sticks out of the water too much? I could try and break some of it off..


----------



## CooKieS (25 Apr 2019)

JEK said:


> Thank you! I'm really happy with it. Looking forward to plant it.
> 
> Do you think the long branch sticks out of the water too much? I could try and break some of it off..



Well, if it bothers you during maintenance, you could always cut it later with dremel tools.

Or better doing it now with a Hand saw


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (25 Apr 2019)

JEK said:


> Thank you! I'm really happy with it. Looking forward to plant it.
> 
> Do you think the long branch sticks out of the water too much? I could try and break some of it off..



For what it's worth I think they look just fine, I deffo wouldn't break some off, I don't think it would look right at all...


----------



## CooKieS (26 Apr 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> For what it's worth I think they look just fine, I deffo wouldn't break some off, I don't think it would look right at all...



That long branch will drive him crazy when maintenance, cut it properly just over the water surface level, so it won't be visible when taking the FTS for contests


----------



## JEK (26 Apr 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> For what it's worth I think they look just fine, I deffo wouldn't break some off, I don't think it would look right at all...





CooKieS said:


> That long branch will drive him crazy when maintenance, cut it properly just over the water surface level, so it won't be visible when taking the FTS for contests


I did break of around 5 cm of the longest branch. Think it looks more balanced now.


----------



## JEK (27 Apr 2019)

I just ordered a cabinet for the tank from green aqua! Found that the surface of the book shelf wasn't 100% straight and well, a cabinet will make everything look so much nicer. It will however take 3-4 weeks before I have it since it's made to order, so the plan is a dry start with moss and lilaeopsis until then. Which lily pipes would you guys suggest for a layout with vertical wood branches like this one? Can't decide if I should go for the Cal Aqua F2 or maybe even the small F1 or Aqua Rebell.


----------



## JEK (29 Apr 2019)

The result after planting Lilaeopsis brasilienses, spiky moss and weeping moss.
View attachment n2R2RyA.jpg


----------



## JEK (3 May 2019)

Lilaeopsis seems to do fine and has started setting new roots. I do have some proplems keeping the moss moist, so we'll see if everything survives. Have gotten some fungal growth, mainly Cladosporium or Penicillium I think. Hope it doesn't get too rampant..


----------



## JEK (10 May 2019)

View attachment vpRHGHD.jpg
View attachment bZohOKo.jpg
The moss has started growing! I was a bit worried for a while that it was getting too dry between mistings, but most of it seems to do fine now.
I'm still a bit torn between low tech or high tech with maybe 10-15 ppm CO2 and fish from slow-moving/high BOD waters. Don't really know which species would work though..


----------



## JEK (14 May 2019)

I'm not sure the moss is actually attaching to the wood even though it's growing well. Anyone with spiky and/or weeping moss dsm experience that can share their experience?

View attachment N6FWRzx.jpg


----------



## JEK (25 May 2019)

Got a new phone with a better camera. Cabinet should arrive next week so I'm going to order the remaining plants soon. My plan so far is microsorum, bolbitis, anubias petite, bucephalandra and some crypts. Not sure which background plants to get though so suggestions are welcome. I've decided to keep it low tech so something that can grow in low light and no CO2. I've thought about hygrophila siamensis 53B and vallisneria nana..


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (26 May 2019)

Vallis is a great choice. I never seem to get any issue with it. Plus i really like it as a background plant.  Hygrophila always seems to have damaged leaves, pin holes etc. However, it would be good for you to have something fast growing that will take any excess nutrients out of the water. Id recommend bacopa. I use it as a smaller version of hygrophila, so great in smaller tanks.

The tank looks great by the way!


----------



## Tim Harrison (26 May 2019)

Looking great... I like vallis I don't think it's used nearly enough. Back in the day it was one of the few plants I could actually get my hands on. It grows very well low-energy sometimes too well sending out runners everywhere. it can synthesis carbon from bicarbonates so it does especially well in hard water. 
_Hygrophila siamensis_ 53B is a nice plant and grows almost as well low-energy, you'll just need to trim and plant the tops occasionally to keep it looking it's best. 
I've also used _Cryptocoryne crispatula _and _Cryptocoryne retorspiralis _as a background plant, maybe an alternative to vallis.


----------



## Tim Harrison (26 May 2019)

Just flicked through the rest of your journal...on your concerns regarding Nathan Hill's article Does CO2 injection cause disease?
I don't think you need to worry. Have a read of this https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/does-co2-injection-cause-disease-thoughts.37306/
The guy who started the whole thing, TonyE, gives some background but at the time of publishing there wasn't any evidence to support his hypothesis...

P.S. you could just inject enough CO2 to turn the drop checker green rather than lime green. Any additional CO2 will be appreciated by the plants, even easy to grow ones especially during transition. And at low conc CO2 will definitely have no effect your critters.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (26 May 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> I've also used _Cryptocoryne crispatula _and _Cryptocoryne retorspiralis _as a background plant, maybe an alternative to vallis.



Good shout, crypt balansae is great too!


----------



## JEK (26 May 2019)

Thanks for the suggestions Matt and Tim! CO2 and fish health is a complicated topic. Species no doubt differ in tolerance according to their natural habitats, the research on the area is sparse and unfortunately you can't ask a fish if it's bothered by the CO2 levels in your tank. But based on my limited research on the area and applying the precautionary approach I've decided that I'm not going to use CO2 for now. Everything else being equal it's safe to assume that a lower CO2 concentration is less stressful for fish compared to elevated CO2 and right now I'm not bothered by slower growth and having a limited pool of plant species to choose from.

Plantwise I ended up with a pretty extensive list as usual..
Background:
Hygrophila siamensis 53B (we'll see if I can keep it looking fresh, if not I'll switch it out with someting else.)
Vallisneria nana
Crypts: albida 'brown', x willisii, wendtii green
Epiphytes: Anubias nana 'petite', Microsorum 'trident', bolbitis heudlotii, some unidentified water fern from Borneo (couldn't resist the exoticness), Bucephalandra 'wavy green', 'braunrot' and 'Lamandau mini red'.
also ordered a few Limnobium laeviagatum to suck up nutrients in the beginning.

The crypts and vallisneria would probably benefit from not using too soft water, right?


----------



## JEK (1 Jun 2019)

Played a bit around with the epiphytes. Still waiting for the cabinet unfortunately. It should arrive next week so I finally will be able to fill it.


----------



## CooKieS (1 Jun 2019)

That is looking very nice.

What king of moss is that please?

That buce on the right branch is an bit too high IMO.

Can't wait to see it filled


----------



## JEK (1 Jun 2019)

CooKieS said:


> That is looking very nice.
> 
> What king of moss is that please?
> 
> ...


Thank you! I agree about the buce. The moss is spiky moss on more vertical surfaces and weeping moss on horizontal surfaces.


----------



## Ady34 (6 Jun 2019)

Looks stunning. 
With your plant choices you could get away with lowering lighting intensity to allow for a leaner co2 injection which will offer slow but steady growth.
Really nice looking layout, even without water or fish.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## JEK (7 Jun 2019)

Ady34 said:


> Looks stunning.
> With your plant choices you could get away with lowering lighting intensity to allow for a leaner co2 injection which will offer slow but steady growth.
> Really nice looking layout, even without water or fish.
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


Thank you! That's definitely a possibillity. For now I'm going to go full low tech and see how it goes.


----------



## JEK (7 Jun 2019)




----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (8 Jun 2019)

Do you have any plans for the centre of the scape or are you liking the open look?


----------



## JEK (8 Jun 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Do you have any plans for the centre of the scape or are you liking the open look?


I have planted C. wendtii 'green', they're just not visible yet and also plan to let vallesneria nana spread a bit towards the middle.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (8 Jun 2019)

That will look stunning! Really loving this tank, keep us updated!!


----------



## JEK (8 Jun 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> That will look stunning! Really loving this tank, keep us updated!!


Thanks a lot, Matt. Since I cycled the filter in my nano, I think I can start adding livestock rather soon. I've been thinking about dario dario or an apistogramma pair, but not sure. Suggestions are veru welcome!


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (8 Jun 2019)

Dario darios need for live food is the only thing that has stopped me purchasing previously. I'm a massive dwarf cichlid fan... both are very good choices. Plan ahead to ensure you get fish at all levels in the tank. For example pencil fish are my favourite surface dwellers...


----------



## JEK (8 Jun 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Dario darios need for live food is the only thing that has stopped me purchasing previously. I'm a massive dwarf cichlid fan... both are very good choices. Plan ahead to ensure you get fish at all levels in the tank. For example pencil fish are my favourite surface dwellers...


Love pencilfish. Aren't they prone to jumping though?


----------



## dw1305 (8 Jun 2019)

Hi all,





JEK said:


> Aren't they prone to jumping though?


Yes.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (8 Jun 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes.
> 
> cheers Darrel


 I thought so. I've also thought of some dwarf corys, not sure how they do without sand though? I'd imagine that it might not be a problem since they are less benthic than "normal" corys  but not sure..


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (8 Jun 2019)

Re the pencilfish... I have a closed tank... all I can say is I don't hear much jumping... surface cover will help of course.


----------



## JEK (9 Jun 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Re the pencilfish... I have a closed tank... all I can say is I don't hear much jumping... surface cover will help of course.


Not sure I'm willing to take the risk. Open tanks has some disadvantages :/

But aesthetically they can't be beaten:





I'm curious to see how the moss will react to going from emersed to submerged growth. As you can see it became really yellow during the dry start. Possibly due to nitrogen limitation..?


----------



## Tim Harrison (9 Jun 2019)

Looking good. Nice sized lily pipes, where did you get them from?


----------



## JEK (9 Jun 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> Looking good. Nice sized lily pipes, where did you get them from?


Thanks Tim. The brand is Aqua Rebell and the model is OF2 for the outflow and IF2 for the inlet. I bought them via aquasabi. Can't get the suction cups to stick unfortunately and I'm actually thinking of trying out some metal lily pipes in the future.


----------



## dw1305 (9 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 





JEK said:


> As you can see it became really yellow during the dry start. Possibly due to nitrogen limitation..?


It is unlikely to be nitrogen, but if it is you should get a very quick greening now the tank is flooded. 

Light levels would be my guess, most mosses go <"more "golden" in higher light">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (9 Jun 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It is unlikely to be nitrogen, but if it is you should get a very quick greening now the tank is flooded.
> 
> Light levels would be my guess, most mosses go <"more "golden" in higher light">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


That could be it! I had high light in the beginning, but I lowered it quite a bit the last few weeks before flooding though.
The difference is between the emersed and submerged moss is striking.



Top is weeping moss that was grown emersed until three days ago and bottom is the same species from my other tank where it has been growing submerged for several months.


----------



## dw1305 (9 Jun 2019)

Hi all,
This is a picture of the moss that used to grow around our pond from <"moss in the pond">). It would go green again in the winter.






JEK said:


> The difference is between the emersed and submerged moss is striking.


A lot of them look a lot more similar to one another when they are submersed. Also they don't tend to produce capsules and it is usually the combination of <"leaf (microphyll) structure"> and capsule that you need to find the correct scientific name.

Marcel @zozo has tried a few terrestrial mosses submersed and they all tend to look fairly "stringy".

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (9 Jun 2019)

@dw1305 What a nice pond! It would be interesting to see whether there's a difference in the microphyll structure between the emersed and submerged form. Maybe I should bring some moss with me to uni and have a look..


----------



## zozo (9 Jun 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Marcel @zozo has tried a few terrestrial mosses submersed and they all tend to look fairly "stringy".



Yes, most indeed do. And i threw about all i could find in the tanks. I still have unidentified moss growing submersed that grows extremely small but in very long strings. At first glance i thought it was hair algae, but than taking it out i could feel the leaf structure like a saw blade. Looking closer its definitively a moss and i have absolute no idea where it originated from.

Few years ago i planted a few starmoss spp. submersed.. Found it in the sand under a tree.. Also this, first dies and it takes very long but will come back and grows submersed in a string form not even looking close to the terrestrial form growing on dry sands.

I made the typical colleceritis error, throwing to much together and swapping things from tank to tank.. I lost track completely and you only can take my word for it. I should have kept it more controlled to catalogue it, would have been intersting data collection.

Anyway, the experience convinced that most likely terrestrial moss is nothing but a grow form. and each moss spp. has both forms. I even wouldn't be surpriced if there are mosses catalogued in both forms clasified as a different spp.  Its the most versatile plant form on earth,,

And lots of mosses like to grow together, than collecting one spp, from nature is no garantee it doesn't contain spores from another in its leaves.. Than it dies and a differnt one comes back. And the fairytale is born.


----------



## JEK (9 Jun 2019)

@zozo that's really interesting. Mosses are such fascinating and beautiful organisms!


----------



## alto (10 Jun 2019)

If you decide Apistograma or other dwarf cichlids, I’d establish other livestock first - especially if you want shrimp

Various small Dario species can do just fine without live foods - though you may need other tankmates to show them the way ... local shop has some nicely grown out (& slightly chubby) Dario sp. Myanmar at present
Unfortunately as is common with the “micro” Dario, all males
(note shop feeds decap brine shrimp eggs initially, then other small pellet type foods (high palatability) ... and there are likely some baby shrimp now and again)

And just because these are amazing fish if you can source them (mostly they are only affordable as small, grey fish and you’ll need to start with a group of 6)
Dicrossus filamentosus


----------



## zozo (10 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> @zozo that's really interesting. Mosses are such fascinating and beautiful organisms!



Yes its absolutely a very intriguing life form.. 

Currently i have some intersting things going on in this setup.



It contains a number of mosses randomly collected from nature and it contains some wood pieces i left in the garden for a few years growing mosses on its own devices.  Now its indoors in a totaly different condition and see grow form changes comming up.

Here a moss growing at the waters edge, the terrestrial form grows bright green and no taller than a few mm. At the black colored substrate, now a lot of water evaporated, need to top off again, but most times its completely submersed with the water about an inch higher and what creeps into the water is stringy and darker green. This are already 2 form changes vissible.




This is over 5 cm away from its originating batch growing into the water, bellow the water level over the substrate you can see it creeping on even further beyond the pictures frame.




 This i previously thought its a different one, because it was even smaller looking like a velvet carpet when i collected it. Either younger or a different conditon. It grew a bit since it is in here and now turns into a smaller look a like of the above moss. And also this is creeping on stringy into the water. But it developed spore caps the other yet not has growen.




It is as if i see 3 different forms transitioning from 3 different conditions. From a shaded spot in the forest, to a damp indor invironment into water.
But than again, i'm not realy qualified enough to make the statement it's the same moss. I have brought home patches of 3 differnt moss sp. growing entangled with eachother. What more is in there?

This one is also interesting, found it growing on top of a large silica coble that was actualy in a relative dry spot. When i found it it was bright green with almost yellow tips, fat and fluffy. Now after a few months in this spot it changed, the brown tips is whats left of the fat fluffy stuf. it is shrinking, changing color and what touches the water grows on but yet not realy stringy, not creeping over the substrate and more compact and firm as if it keeps its tips above the water line..  This moss is showing transition in 3 different forms in different condition in a rather short periode of months.




This is how it looked teh day a found it. Far away from water..


 
Also planted star moss species in there that are looking bad now. But??? Exciting..  Nut sure moss can die.. It more likely is real yet undiscovered fountain of yought living forever.


----------



## JEK (10 Jun 2019)

Very cool @zozo ! Is it C. parva growing aroumd the moss?

@alto thanks for the info and suggestions. Those dario sp myanmar looks absolutely stunning! I love dicrossus, but I almost think they deserve a blackwater biotope to really shine..
Thinking of A borelli at the moment, but that is subject to change. I'll follow your advice and start with establishing a shrimp population if I choose to go with dwarf cichlids.


----------



## zozo (10 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> Very cool @zozo ! Is it C. parva growing aroumd the moss?



Thank you.. No 99% of all plants are south american.. It's Lilaeopsis brasiliensis..


----------



## JEK (10 Jun 2019)

zozo said:


> Thank you.. No 99% of all plants are south american.. It's Lilaeopsis brasiliensis..


Haha I should have been able to see that since I have at as the carpeting plant in this tank..


----------



## alto (10 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> they deserve a blackwater biotope to really shine..


I kept mine in a densely planted tank with lots of wood “underways” - they looked amazing, there are few photos that do them justice 

A borelli is a good choice

There are some ukaps journals with A Bitaeniata ''Shishita'' (look for locally bred Apisto if possible)

Aquascaping Workshop  by Nuno M.


----------



## JEK (10 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> I kept mine in a densely planted tank with lots of wood “underways” - they looked amazing, there are few photos that do them justice
> 
> A borelli is a good choice
> 
> ...



Which water parameters did you keep yours in? I'm at around 180 microsiemens at the moment (mixing DI and tap water), I guess that's a bit too high for checkerboards.


----------



## alto (11 Jun 2019)

Seriously Fish


> *Hardness*: Again, can tolerate moderately hard water but will only thrive and breed with very little hardness (1°dH or lower recommended).



I kept these fish in Castlebar Ireland, water reports listed TDS ~150 - 350 annual range, pH 7 ish, as I recall, GH 4-6, enough that every shop sold limescale products 
I’d picked up that remaining 7 juveniles (small grey fish) in London from a (reputable) shop that predicted no problems
I ended up with 3 males, 3 females (that displayed breeding colours and spawned though initial attempts only made it to wiggles stage), 1 likely subordinate male masquerading as a female
They were almost always in a loose shoal, patrolling the tank (except when a given female would remain at a spawn site) BUT tank was 100cm x 40cm (Rio 180 with stock filter)

Sadly I lost all livestock following a water change (& unknown roadworks up the road) - I did have a complete test kit at the time, nothing adverse on the usual parameters ... a couple of the Dicrossus lingered a couple weeks before passing

In a 60P I’d begin with 6 juveniles and then remove fish as needed, I’d try for 2 males & 2 females (I hate to have only one of each as then something is bound to happen)


----------



## dw1305 (11 Jun 2019)

Hi all,


alto said:


> I kept mine in a densely planted tank with lots of wood “underways” - they looked amazing, there are few photos that do them justice
> 
> A borelli is a good choice





JEK said:


> I guess that's a bit too high for checkerboards.


I'm a _borellii_ fan as well. 

In <"terms of looks">, _Dicrossus_ are amazing fish and relatively easy to keep when they are young.  This is my last _D. maculatus_ male



 

Like @alto says you can maintain _D. filamentosus_ at that conductivity level, but they won't spawn successfully. 

I've had them a couple of times (_D. filamentosus_ and <"_D. maculatus">_) and I've never managed to breed them successfully. They are much more enthusiastic eaters than _Apistogramma_ spp. and this means that they need careful feeding once they are mature. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (11 Jun 2019)

I'm more and more tempted to get checkerboards.. For now I've gotten 2 neritina pulligera and some cherry shrimps that are living in my nano while I slowly acclimatise to the softer water in this tank.


----------



## alto (14 Jun 2019)

Just to distract 

A borellii FB video from Kaminature in Seville Spain


----------



## JEK (14 Jun 2019)

@alto Beautiful fish! 

Small update: I'm seeing some crypt melt, but that was expected. What I didn't expect was for all the hygrophila to melt away. Hopefully it grows back with vengeance.




The moss has started to become more greenish. 


I'm also seeing some melt on Bucephalandra 'wavy green', but apart from that the plants seem to do fine. I see oxygen bubbles on the bolbitis at the end of the photoperiod, which is a welcome surprise. Seems like it appreciates the softer water. Lilaeopsis seems to have no problems whatsoever adapting to submerged growth so far - hope it stays that way.

I must say that, so far, I really enjoy the simplicity of a low tech tank. I don't think I'm going to try and keep this too manicured and perfect, but more of a natural looking scape with happy inhabitants. In retrospect I might have chosen a sand foreground instead of Lilaeopsis for even lower maintenance. Maybe next time..


----------



## alto (15 Jun 2019)

Without CO2 it’s not unusual to see quicker melt of emerse leaves - I don’t know what the determining factors are (it seems complex rather than simple)

Trim back and remove any “melt” - there seems to be no benefit to these (complex) organics in the tank, from what I’ve observed, they seem to have (only) negative impact (contagious “melt”) 

Lower water temp seems to slow the emerse leaf deterioration process, while new growth is steady 
eg, maintain tank 20-22C rather than 24-28C 
(this may just reflect increased gas (CO2 & O2 etc) levels in cooler water, also slower bacterial activity (depending)

Buce ‘wavy green’ does seem more melt prone than the ‘sp.red’ (assuming Tropica), good flow and cooler temp seems to help, ‘red’ is also much faster grower 

I suggest removing all the brown spot (algae?or particles) from plant leafs, trim leafs if it’s structural damage - toss in some fast growing floaters if this means tank looks low on leaf density 

Lilaeopsis seems like it “holds” old growth for a god long time - watch for new growth (roots and rhizomes) 
In CO2 tanks, some will trim the Eleocharis and Lilaeopsis to substrate level as it’s very difficult to individually remove old growth later without also trimming out new growth (you’ll see an odd yellow leaf and new green leaf stage that can linger for ages) 


Disclaimer
I am the GREAT MELTER of Tropica Eleocharis montevidensis


----------



## alto (15 Jun 2019)

Sand often looks “dirty” or algae or Cyanobacteria- it needs weekly sifting and cleaning to look good AND occasional replacement (unless you end up with the magic balance with sand sifters & environmental conditions)


----------



## azawaza (15 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Sand often looks “dirty” or algae or Cyanobacteria- it needs weekly sifting and cleaning to look good AND occasional replacement (unless you end up with the magic balance with sand sifters & environmental conditions)



Second this. In sand, makes you insane, with all that vacuuming and what not. I keep mind super thin though to prevent anaerobic conditions which may lead to Cyanobacteria.

Still a good substrate for corydoras and other sand shifters.


----------



## JEK (15 Jun 2019)

Thanks for the advice, Alto. It's much appreciated. You're right that the melt seems to be contagious in some way and I have trimmed off the melting hygrophila and cryptocoryne leaves. I'm unsure if there's enough of a root system left for survival in the Hygrophila, but we'll see. I have exactly the same observation regarding 'wavy green' and 'red' bucephalandra.
This is how it looks after the trimming.


----------



## alto (15 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> Hygrophila siamensis 53B


If this melted, I’d contact the vendor - it really should be quite bullet proof 
BUT
if plants overheat during shipping, that can lead to considerable (cellular) damage and subsequent melt


----------



## JEK (15 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> If this melted, I’d contact the vendor - it really should be quite bullet proof
> BUT
> if plants overheat during shipping, that can lead to considerable (cellular) damage and subsequent melt


I planted some of it my nano where it seems to do fine.. So I don't think the vendor is at fault. I also used the nano as a holding tank for about a week before planting so the melt seems to be a response to the specific conditions in my 60p..


----------



## JEK (19 Jun 2019)

The more I look at it, the more unsure I get about the hardscape. Not sure I like the flow and shape of the roots anymore.. Maybe it just need to grow in or can be tweaked, but I'm almost tempted to get some other pieces of driftwood and redo the hardscape. What do you guys think? Wait and see how it looks when it grows in, keep the overall design but tweak it (if so suggestions are welcome) or redo it with new materials?


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (19 Jun 2019)

If you can get some more of the same driftwood, i would perhaps experiment with adding some between the two existing pieces.

Take a look at https://www.aquascapeawards.com/scapes/aqueous-reflection-151202080212/ for some inspiration...


----------



## JEK (19 Jun 2019)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> If you can get some more of the same driftwood, i would perhaps experiment with adding some between the two existing pieces.
> 
> Take a look at https://www.aquascapeawards.com/scapes/aqueous-reflection-151202080212/ for some inspiration...



Thanks for the suggestion, Matt. Really nice scape you linked to! I've also thought about making it into more of an island layout instead of the v shape I have now.


----------



## alto (20 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> The more I look at it, the more unsure I get about the hardscape


I always have an ongoing Love Hate relationship with my scapes 

Wait for it to grow in before any drastic changes

Plants and trimming/shaping can dramatically alter a scape


I recently just settled on hardscape, planted, then saw all it’s *overwhelming* flaws as soon as it was filled  


I did leave it a few days, but it wasn't going to meet the fish needs either (Betta hendra that are very shy)

So compete rescape - everything out, wash soil (properly this time) ...

Much better for fish (and me) - though it still looks rather stark until stems grow in


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (20 Jun 2019)

JEK said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, Matt. Really nice scape you linked to! I've also thought about making it into more of an island layout instead of the v shape I have now.


If you want to try and get the v shape working, I suggest some really tall stems on the left and right sides...


----------



## JEK (25 Jun 2019)

The scape just didn't do it for me so I have closed the tank down and is going to take some time to think about what to do with it. I have several ideas in mind:
1. Island shape with frodo stone and red moor. Sand as substrate. Epiphytes on the wood and lots of vallisneria in the background. Corys and apistogrammas as inhabitants.

2. Going hightech. V shape with seiryu stone as hardscape and a mix of monte carlo and open sand foreground and stemmed plants in the background.

3. Blackwater biotope with checkerboards and red neons.


----------



## dw1305 (25 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 





JEK said:


> Corys and apistogrammas as inhabitants.


They don't get on together.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (25 Jun 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, They don't get on together.
> 
> cheers Darrel


What about habrosus or hastatus?


----------



## dw1305 (25 Jun 2019)

Hi all, 





JEK said:


> hastatus?


_Corydoras hastatus_ or _C. pygmaeus  _are all right. They are both much less bottom orientated than _C. habrosus (_or any of the larger _Corydoras_ spp._). 
_
We've had some threads on this on _Apistogramma_ forums, and apparently _Corydoras_ spp. and _Apistogramma_ spp. rarely occur together, and _Corydoras_ tend to ignore the warning signs that the cichlids have fry that they will defend. TomC, in <"this thread"> has very extensive knowledge of Apistogramma both in the wild and <"in captivity"> .

I didn't get very good _Apistogramma_ fry survival when I had _C. hastatus_ and/or _C. pygmaeus _in the tank, presumably because they eat similar size food items (the little _Corydoras_ spp. love micro-worms). There is a thread on either "PlanetCatfish" or "Apistogramma forums" where they found the same thing.

I have had <"_Corydoras hastatus & C. pygmaeus_ fry"> in the same tank as _Dicrossus maculatus. _

I lost my _Corydoras hastatus_ colony last summer (while I was in New Zealand). I would like to keep them again (I'd had them for ~10 years) but they aren't often for sale in the UK. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (25 Jun 2019)

@dw1305 thanks for the in depth explanation.


----------



## zozo (9 Jul 2019)

zozo said:


> Nut sure moss can die.. It more likely is real yet undiscovered fountain of yought living forever.



Nice to find positive confirmation on a theory.
https://www.sciencealert.com/ancien...kvu_PMFph9pCZdD1rXWIgiDhmJe7-EYSQAr24zoL_i9hE



> Earth's Ancient "_Aulacomnium turgidum" _Are Awakening After 40,000 Years in Permafrost


----------



## JEK (9 Jul 2019)

Impressive!


----------



## JEK (16 Oct 2019)

I finally decided to start this tank again and bought some red moor wood and la plata sand at my local aquascaping store today. 



I need more rocks so I'll try to get hold of some Seiryu rubble (or make it my self). I'm tempted to get a CO2 kit and go high-tech with this scape. If I decide to do that, I'm thinking Anubias "petite" at the base of the roots, a little bit of riccardia on the rocks. Eleocharis vivipara (or maybe Cyperus helferi) and Ludwigia repens in the centre of the background and Eleocharis parvula and maybe a few crypts in the sides. 

I kept low-tech then I imagine Anubias "Petite", java moss, various crypts and Vallisneria nana in the background.   

Please let me know what you think of the hardscape and plant plans.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (17 Oct 2019)

Liking the hardscape so far - agree more rocks needed to finish off. You might also want to consider adding another smaller piece of wood going down towards the substrate on the right hand side to balance out with the quite thick piece on the left.

Re planting plans i would go with crypts rather than parvula and love the idea of the helferi. Going against my own principles of always sticking with non co2 here...  the ludwigia might be tricky placement wise to avoid red in the dead centre... not sure that would look right. What about some java fern on the wood?


----------



## JEK (17 Oct 2019)

@Matt @ ScapeEasy Don't you think that will make the layout too symmetric? I have some smaller pieces lying around so might try it.

Hmm you might be right about red in the centre. I remember I have seen an ADA layout combining red ludwigia and E. vivipara and creating a very nice effect bit i think it was a "double island" in a longer tank. 

I'm more keen om trying bolbitis than java fern, but I guess it would need frequent trimming to keep all leaves pretty small and in proportion with the tank.


----------



## oscar (17 Oct 2019)

I agree some smaller interesting branches of wood could complement/finish off the scape on the right hand side.

Looking good so far 

Oscar.


----------



## JEK (17 Oct 2019)

oscar said:


> I agree some smaller interesting branches of wood could complement/finish off the scape on the right hand side.
> 
> Looking good so far
> 
> Oscar.


Thanks!

Inspired by MD Fish Tanks I decided to keep it low-tech and have just ordered plants. 
Foreground: "Moss" balls, some accents of Eleocharis "mini", Hydrocotyle cf. tripartita growing over the stones.
Midground/epiphytes: Anubias "Petite", some bucephalandras, some accents with java moss.
Background: Bacopa australis, Hygrophila polysperma, Limnophila sessiflora, Ludwigia palustris. Might also add some of the crypts and vallisneria nana I've got growing in my nano. 
Floating plants: Salvinia auriculata

Fishwise I'm thinking Dario dario or Endler's guppies, but that is subject to change.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (17 Oct 2019)

Sounds good! You would need to avoid it becoming too symmetrical, I think unforunately right now thin it looks too unbalanced... one for you to play around with and see what you like the most...


----------



## JEK (18 Oct 2019)

Starting to like this V shape layout better. Still needs more rocks and sand in the foreground so try to imagine that instead of the soil.


----------



## JEK (18 Oct 2019)

Okay so this is the one I'm the most happy with so far: 

 Not sure about the s-curved branch that's ends almost in center of the tank. Thinking about sawing the upward curving bit off and glue another tip on.


----------



## Harry H (18 Oct 2019)

Now, that is really nice.


----------



## JEK (18 Oct 2019)

Harry H said:


> Now, that is really nice.


Thanks! Took some sawing to get everything to fit together.


----------



## JEK (23 Oct 2019)

Plant list (from left to right):
Background: Hygrophila polysperma, Rotala rotundifolia, Limnophila sessiflora, Ludwigia palustris, Vallisneria nana, Bacopa australis, cryptocoryne x willisi, Cryptocoryne wendtii green, Cryptocoryne becketii petchii,
Midground/epiphytes: Bolbitis heudelotii, Anubias "petite", Hydrocotyle cf. tripartita, a few species of Bucephalandra and Aegagrophila linnaei.


----------



## Kalum (23 Oct 2019)

Stone work looks good @JEK nice work


----------



## JEK (23 Oct 2019)

Kalum said:


> Stone work looks good @JEK nice work


Thanks! Got some really nice small pieces from Aquasabi.


----------



## Dan OB (24 Oct 2019)

Hi Jek, I really like the look of this scape so far! I actually started mine as a low tech but then decided to add some co2. But going back to some of the discussions early on I'm not going crazy on how much co2 I'm injecting. I don't know what you have your light set to but I found 30% about right for low tech with the twinstar. I'm also thinking of ordering a cabinet for my ada 60p from Green Aqua as my current one (IKEA Besta) is showing signs of water damage and let's the overall appearance down. I'm a little worried  about moving the tank to a new cabinet as my scape has a few large rocks in it, may have to wait untill I rescape! Did you go for 70 or 80cm in height?


----------



## JEK (24 Oct 2019)

Dan OB said:


> Hi Jek, I really like the look of this scape so far! I actually started mine as a low tech but then decided to add some co2. But going back to some of the discussions early on I'm not going crazy on how much co2 I'm injecting. I don't know what you have your light set to but I found 30% about right for low tech with the twinstar. I'm also thinking of ordering a cabinet for my ada 60p from Green Aqua as my current one (IKEA Besta) is showing signs of water damage and let's the overall appearance down. I'm a little worried  about moving the tank to a new cabinet as my scape has a few large rocks in it, may have to wait untill I rescape! Did you go for 70 or 80cm in height?



Thanks Dan! I also might add CO2 later, and keep it at moderate levels. Thanks for the tip about the light! Are you also using the Twinstar E series? My cabinet is 70 cm in height.


----------



## JEK (24 Oct 2019)

Couldn't help adding a little CO2 to speed things up a little.


----------



## Dan OB (24 Oct 2019)

JEK said:


> Thanks Dan! I also might add CO2 later, and keep it at moderate levels. Thanks for the tip about the light! Are you also using the Twinstar E series? My cabinet is 70 cm in height.


Yeah, I have the same light, still a great light as far as I'm concerned, I know there is a new brighter version now, but I think it's still very strong for an ADA 60p.


----------



## JEK (24 Oct 2019)

Dan OB said:


> Yeah, I have the same light, still a great light as far as I'm concerned, I know there is a new brighter version now, but I think it's still very strong for an ADA 60p.


Yeah I bought it because it was a bit cheaper and I actually like the look better compared to the s series. I'm not growing super demanding plants so it's more than enough.


----------



## CooKieS (24 Oct 2019)

JEK said:


> Yeah I bought it because it was a bit cheaper and I actually like the look better compared to the s series. I'm not growing super demanding plants so it's more than enough.



Got the same light, one of the first that was sold in Europe, had good growth on every plants even the difficult ones in my 60p. I think the S series rendering is too reddish, seems that the New v2.0 has improved ...we'll see


----------



## JEK (24 Oct 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Got the same light, one of the first that was sold in Europe, had good growth on every plants even the difficult ones in my 60p. I think the S series rendering is too reddish, seems that the New v2.0 has improved ...we'll see


Reassuring to hear. I like the green to pop the most so seems like the e series was right for me


----------



## JEK (28 Oct 2019)

So I'm happy with the left side (first picture), but unsure if I should extend the soil part of the right side so there's space for a few more plants. What do you guys think? Also; should I add some moss on a few of the branches? I've been debating with myself whether to do it or not..


----------



## JEK (30 Oct 2019)

Some new additions.


----------



## MrStoffel (5 Nov 2019)

Beautifull tank Johan!
What are those green moss like plants between the rocks?


----------



## JEK (5 Nov 2019)

MrStoffel said:


> Beautifull tank Johan!
> What are those green moss like plants between the rocks?


Thanks!  It's a type of green algae _Aegagropila linnaei_, also known as moss balls or marimo balls. Wanted to try them out a lower maintenance alternative to moss (they grow extremely slowly).


----------



## JEK (14 Nov 2019)

3 weeks: 



Eriocaulon and Eleocharis mixed "carpet". Excited to see how it turns out.


----------



## CooKieS (14 Nov 2019)

Nice addition


----------



## JEK (14 Nov 2019)

Thanks @CooKieS 

Any suggestions on fish? I'm thinking about a shoal of black neons.


----------



## Harry H (14 Nov 2019)

You might think it is boring, but cardinal tetras would look good IMHO.


----------



## JEK (14 Nov 2019)

Harry H said:


> You might think it is boring, but cardinal tetras would look good IMHO.


I have actually considered them!


----------



## Jayefc1 (14 Nov 2019)

As always mu fav ember tetra cant beat that flash of little red swimming around the tank 
Cheers
Jay


----------



## CooKieS (14 Nov 2019)

JEK said:


> Thanks @CooKieS
> 
> Any suggestions on fish? I'm thinking about a shoal of black neons.



Would suggest something different: hyphessobrycon amapaensis


----------



## JEK (14 Nov 2019)

CooKieS said:


> Would suggest something different: hyphessobrycon amapaensis


They look really nice. Good suggestion!


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

Anyone that has tried keeping black neons or ampaensis with cherry shrimp? Will the population be able to sustain itself?


----------



## Thumper (18 Nov 2019)

JEK said:


> Will the population be able to sustain itself?



Yes. Had 25 Black Neons with 100s of Neocaridina in the same 80cm tank for a long time.


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

Thumper said:


> Yes. Had 25 Black Neons with 100s of Neocaridina in the same 80cm tank for a long time.


Cool! Then I won't rule them out. 

Some new plant additions as well as livestock coming up later today. Watch this space


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

New additions; Hygrophila pinnatifida and Myriophyllum 'Guyana'. Myriophyllum is planted behind the Blyxa instead of Bacopa caroliniana as I found the leaf size to large for that part of the tank.
I think the Hygrophila will (and already has) improved the shade/light balance a lot.


----------



## BarryH (18 Nov 2019)

I'm a bit late to the party and only just discovered this thread. Really loving the latest "Succession" in the image above.

JEK, can I ask, and please excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge, what are the mossy clumps at the bottom right and leading down from the rocks?


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

BarryH said:


> I'm a bit late to the party and only just discovered this thread. Really loving the latest "Succession" in the image above.
> 
> JEK, can I ask, and please excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge, what are the mossy clumps at the bottom right and leading down from the rocks?


Thanks a lot! The mossy clumps are _Aegagropila linnaei _(actually a green algae).


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

First vertebrates are going to be added soon.


----------



## BarryH (18 Nov 2019)

JEK said:


> Thanks a lot! The mossy clumps are _Aegagropila linnaei _(actually a green algae).



Thanks JEK. I'm learning something new every day. When I look for _Aegagropila linnaei,_ Google comes up with Marimo Moss Balls. Are they the same and maybe cut in half?


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

BarryH said:


> Thanks JEK. I'm learning something new every day. When I look for _Aegagropila linnaei,_ Google comes up with Marimo Moss Balls. Are they the same and maybe cut in half?


Exactly - I have torn most of them in half.


----------



## BarryH (18 Nov 2019)

JEK said:


> Exactly - I have torn most of them in half.



Brilliant. Thanks for all the help Johan, really appreciated.


----------



## JEK (18 Nov 2019)

BarryH said:


> Brilliant. Thanks for all the help Johan, really appreciated.


You're very welcome.


----------



## JEK (28 Nov 2019)

C. pygmaeus added - only 4 so far (long story), but the plan is to get at least twice as many.


----------



## dw1305 (28 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





JEK said:


> C. pygmaeus added


They like <"really small food items">. Grindal worms are <"another favourite food">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## JEK (28 Nov 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, They like <"really small food items">. Grindal worms are <"another favourite food">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


They do have tiny little mouths. I'll try and get a hold of some grindal worms and start a culture.


----------



## JEK (4 Dec 2019)

Better without the moss balls?


----------



## Tim Harrison (4 Dec 2019)

I kinda like it with moss balls as well as without.


----------



## MJQMJQ (5 Dec 2019)

JEK said:


> Better without the moss balls?



The moss balls look cute though.I like the one with the moss balls haha.


----------



## JEK (5 Dec 2019)

I might add them back again


----------



## Kalum (5 Dec 2019)

I vote without, much cleaner!

.....and more small stone work at front instead


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper (5 Dec 2019)

I liked the moss, but maybe not as many. Around 5 little blobs in amongst the rocks would be my choice.


----------



## Wookii (6 Dec 2019)

JEK said:


> C. pygmaeus added - only 4 so far (long story), but the plan is to get at least twice as many.




Lovely tank - similar layout to what I'm hoping to achieve in my sons new tank (though I doubt it'll look anywhere as good as this one).

Can I just ask what Buce species you have in the image above? Did you buy them at that size, or have they been grown on in another tank?


----------



## JEK (6 Dec 2019)

Thanks for your comments. Will play a bit around with the green algae and small rocks. Have also considered adding moss to the tanks..

@Wookii Hmm I've had those for a while. I think the larger one is some sort of 'red' variety and the one with really small leaves is 'Lamandau mini red' if I remember correctly.


----------



## JEK (9 Dec 2019)

Post trim 




Just added more Corydoras pygmaeus to a total of 9 and 15 Hyphessobrycon amandae. I've removed the moss balls again and added some small rocks with taiwan moss glued on. Just can't have a tank without moss it seems


----------



## Thumper (9 Dec 2019)

JEK said:


> Post trim


Pre glasware cleaning 

Jokes aside, the tank is looking healthy and crisp clean!


----------



## JEK (9 Dec 2019)

Thumper said:


> Pre glasware cleaning
> 
> Jokes aside, the tank is looking healthy and crisp clean!


Haha, the worst thing is that it's only around two weeks since i cleaned them last time. Might switch to steel one day. And thanks! I'm suprised myself how little algae I've got.


----------



## CooKieS (9 Dec 2019)

JEK said:


> Haha, the worst thing is that it's only around two weeks since i cleaned them last time. Might switch to steel one day. And thanks! I'm suprised myself how little algae I've got.



You might want to go for an steel inlet, which is the worst to clean when in glass, and keep the glass lily pipe outlet which is easy to clean without disasembling.  

Tank looks great BTW.


----------



## JEK (9 Dec 2019)

CooKieS said:


> You might want to go for an steel inlet, which is the worst to clean when in glass, and keep the glass lily pipe outlet which is easy to clean without disasembling.
> 
> Tank looks great BTW.


Great idea and thanks!


----------



## JEK (10 Dec 2019)

The small corys are just lovely and are much bolder now that I have a proper number the ember tetras are really nice as well although a bit more active than I expected.. They had H. amapaensis in the shop as well but they were really expensive unfortunetaly. They looked really nice though so it was tempting.


----------



## JEK (16 Dec 2019)

I always felt like one of the branches had an unnatural angle compared to the others, so I removed. Do you think it looks better without it or should I add it back in?




Btw, I'm running very low CO2 levels - around 0.3 bps - the drop checker never gets green. So relatively high light, lean dosing and low CO2 can work - at least in this layout.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy (16 Dec 2019)

Better without!


----------



## JEK (7 Jan 2020)

Not much to report here except that the glassware is slightly dirtier than last time and that the moss is starting to grown in.


----------



## BarryH (7 Jan 2020)

Johan, what is the brown colour covering the sand on the left hand side of the tank?

As it only seems to be on the area of sand where the roots are, I'm guessing it's coming from the branches. I recently planted a tank using Redmoor Roots for the first time and my sand has gone the same colour.


----------



## JEK (7 Jan 2020)

BarryH said:


> Johan, what is the brown colour covering the sand on the left hand side of the tank?
> 
> As it only seems to be on the area of sand where the roots are, I'm guessing it's coming from the branches. I recently planted a tank using Redmoor Roots for the first time and my sand has gone the same colour.


I think it's just detritus collecting in that part of the tank due to the flow.


----------



## JEK (16 Jan 2020)

I managed to clean one of the lily pipes!


----------



## Ady34 (17 Jan 2020)

Lovely looking scape


----------



## JEK (18 Jan 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Lovely looking scape


Thanks! Starting to get the itch to rescape it though. So many things to improve!


----------



## Deano3 (18 Jan 2020)

Love this scape makes me want a 60cm again  i also like the thought of no carpet just looks great and love the triangle composition.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## JEK (18 Jan 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Love this scape makes me want a 60cm again  i also like the thought of no carpet just looks great and love the triangle composition.
> 
> Dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thank you! I really like triangular compositions as well, but I feel like I'm doing them too much so next scape will be a v shape. And I'll try to make the hardscape more maitenance friendly and limit the number of species to under 10 next time ( I have over 20 species of plants in this scape ).


----------



## JEK (4 Feb 2020)

Time for a trim


----------



## CooKieS (4 Feb 2020)

Peaceful nature scape, I like it.


----------



## JEK (15 Feb 2020)

post-trim. I think the fish prefer the over-grown look


----------



## JEK (4 Mar 2020)

My 60P looks pretty much the same, but here's a tank I scaped and maintain at my university:


----------



## JEK (12 Mar 2020)

got tired of soil getting into the sand all the time.. Have ordered some pots of monte carlo.


----------



## alto (13 Mar 2020)

Hah!
I just caught up (I think since before the last rescape )

I love the look of Filipe Oliveira’s new 60cm scape (at AquaFlora) but not sure how the sand will look - note he does the same as ADA with lots of sand over the aquarium soil (powder) AND he’s kicked out all the Corydoras and Amano shrimp 

I’m just rescaping my tanks too 
Went to the lfs and bought loads of plants - no Monte Carlo available for weeks now (not sure why Tropica NA isn’t ordering this in from Tropica Denmark for Canadian shops - I’m more than a little suspicious all locally produced MC is heading to America  )


----------



## JEK (13 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Hah!
> I just caught up (I think since before the last rescape )
> 
> I love the look of Filipe Oliveira’s new 60cm scape (at AquaFlora) but not sure how the sand will look - note he does the same as ADA with lots of sand over the aquarium soil (powder) AND he’s kicked out all the Corydoras and Amano shrimp
> ...



Haven't watched Filipe's video yet, but his work is always great.  I'm not sure, but I suspect that the soil that i capped with sand actually started to move up trough the sand over time. I think my next few scapes will be soil only or at least have a very good barrier between sand and soil.. 

No MC shortage here, maybe an advantage of living in the same country Tropica is located in.


----------



## JEK (16 Mar 2020)

MC is planted! Not the easiest species to plant in a running tank. Hope that some of it actually stays in the soil long enough to grow roots.


----------



## CooKieS (16 Mar 2020)

Looking much better with soil  nice job


----------



## Jayefc1 (16 Mar 2020)

Agreed much better


----------



## JEK (16 Mar 2020)

Thanks guys! Sand is so 2019


----------



## JEK (20 Mar 2020)

Trim and filter + lily pipe clean (the last two are IMO the absolutely worst part of this hobby)


----------



## Deano3 (20 Mar 2020)

JEK said:


> Trim and filter + lily pipe clean (the last two are IMO the absolutely worst part of this hobby)


I agree but not to bad when not in a rush but i always seem to be these days, maybe not so much this week  tanks looking great by the way.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## CooKieS (21 Mar 2020)

Do yourself an favour and buy one stainless steel inlet, while keeping the glass outlet which can be cleaned without dismantling


----------



## JEK (21 Mar 2020)

@CooKieS It's on my wishlist 

Btw the ember tetras has become extremely skittish lately. They hide just if I move around in the room. They used to be more calm.. Don't really know why. And I almost never see the pygmy corys anymore..


----------



## JEK (26 Apr 2020)

I got hold of a micro worm starter culture. The ember tetras seems to enjoy them a lot. Corys are still hiding almost all the time and I think I might have lost a few. I had one confirmed loss some weeks ago and I've only been able to spot 5 together recently. More might be alive though since they are so shy and just want to hang out in the dense vegetation. I've dimmed the light a bit. Seems to be appreciated from the tetras. Also starting to lower hardness a bit more. Around 200 microsiemens last water change. Think I'll go down to around 100-150.


----------



## JEK (16 Aug 2020)

Still chugging along..

Can you spot the new additions?


----------



## JEK (3 Sep 2020)

slightly better picture


----------



## JackH (3 Sep 2020)

Looking great!


----------



## JEK (16 Nov 2020)




----------

