# Flow issues: advice needed for upgrading canister filter



## parotet (5 Feb 2015)

Hi all

I need some advice from you regarding a canister filter upgrade for my 60 cm high tech tank. I am currently using a Classic Eheim 2215 (theoretically 600 lph) with one coarse sponge and two bags of ceramic ring (hardly 1/3 of the filter volume used). I’m using a spraybar all along the rear glass and the flow is fine IMO.

If I am thinking about upgrading the filter is because: 1) I want to try again someday my lily pipes, and 2) because my current layout is very simple (actually there’s no hardscape blocking the flow). When I have used the lily pipes or had more complex layouts the flow was poor. I have in mind the JBL e901 or the Eheim Pro3 2071. Both have similar turnovers (900-950 lph), similar power consumption (11-12 w), filter media volume (6-7 liters), in both flow can be regulated, good quality reported everywhere, spare parts available easily… but different tubing sizes: JBL is 12/16 mm and Eheim is 16/22.


So the first question:

- maybe changing from my Classic 2215 to the mentioned ones is worthless and just by changing the ceramic rings (I read here that they are the ones that restrict the flow more) for more hydrodynamic media I can run the lily pipes or have a better flow performance. What do you think? I see people using this filter range (around 600 lph) that have no problems at all... maybe it is just me and I need to improve my skills. But I also see other people running these or even more powered filters in this tank volume.

And now, if I finally upgrade the filter:

- assuming that the real flow rate would be around 50% of the official flow rates, will the Eheim Pro3 (with bigger tubing: 16/22) have more difficulties than the JBL (smaller tubing: 12/16) for delivering this flow? The outflow water column in Eheim would be heavier (but the suction also bigger)… Sorry not good on physics.

Any additional information is welcome

Jordi


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## Another Phil (5 Feb 2015)

Hi Jordi,

I've got the e701 and the manual covers the e901 as well. it says the e901 with all media and hoses included is 380 - 450 l/hr.
I've run my e701 for about 2 months now without cleaning and with full media (and no livestock)and I reckon I've lost another 20% flow, so I reckon the e901 could realistically be down around the 300 - 360 l/hr with full media.

I don't know the Eheim ratings but you can download a manual which might have the info;
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/technology/external-filters/professionel
(me googling indicates the 250 is the 2071 but I'm not an expert..)

cheers phil


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## Another Phil (5 Feb 2015)

ps.  if it was you talking about waste water recently, this popped up as though the author read your mind!
http://www.csectioncomics.com/2015/01/our-water.html


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## parotet (6 Feb 2015)

Another Phil said:


> so I reckon the e901 could realistically be down around the 300 - 360 l/hr with full media.


Yes, I never use the filter full of media, so I'd expect something around 500 lph (real)



Another Phil said:


> me googling indicates the 250 is the 2071


Right, it is. The performance would be very similar to JBL e901, at least this is my guess. My doubt is the tubing diameter issue, not sure if this can make a difference in terms of real flow

Jordi


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## ian_m (6 Feb 2015)

Quick scan of JBL e901 user manual reveals the following flow rates with all the included media fitted.


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## parotet (6 Feb 2015)

It looks more than enough for 65 liters taking into account that i won't use all the media nor 1.5 meters of tube... Anyone has any experience with both models?

Jordi


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## parotet (11 Feb 2015)

Hi again

Still analysing which filter (JBL e901 or Eheim Pro3-2071) will be better for my 64 liters tank. 
There’s a guy on YouTube that decided to test of the real outflow for the JBL e901 

)

So 450 lph, more or less what it is said in the instructions of the canister, but I have not found anything similar for the Eheim 2071.

I still got a question for you. The flow rate is calculated without media and tubing BUT my guess was (and still is) that the tubing diameter will have an effect on the real outflow (with a similar power pump). The JBL e901 has 12/16 mm tubing while the Eheim 2071 has 16/22 mm. This time I have estimated that, despite a small difference in the tubing diameter, the weight of the water column to be lift is exactly the double (for 1 meter of tubing 113,04 cm3 vs 226,86 cm3). We know the real flow for the JBL with tubing but not for Eheim, can I assume that the Eheim having the same power (just 1w more) will have more difficulties to deliver the real flow achieved by the JBL due to this fact?
Thanks again,

Jordi


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## ian_m (11 Feb 2015)

1. Most, if not all, filters drop to 50% of pump rating once media has been added, its just that JBL actually quote it in their instruction manuals.
2. Height and weight of water is irrelevant as you are pumping in a closed loop ie inlet and outlet at same height. I could run my filter 10foot below my tank, if I wanted, it would still work. Issues would now be 20ft of tubing to slow water down and if the canister could cope with the pressure of a head of 10ft of water.
3. With a 64litre tank, e901 would be fine and considerably cheaper.


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## Edvet (11 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> Height and weight of water is irrelevant as you are pumping in a closed loop ie inlet and outlet at same height. I could run my filter 10foot below my tank, if I wanted


 Not sure what you mean, but the lower the pump sits below the tank the smaller the volume it wil put out. The volume mentioned on all pumps is when it pumps to the same level.
(add 10 feet of tubing to your pump, horizontal it will give app as much as advertised, going straight up wil almost stop flow completely, the force of the pumf will be cancelled by the weight of the watercolumn)


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## parotet (11 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> the lower the pump sits below the tank the smaller the volume it wil put out


Yup, that was my approach... if the distance is important as stated in all the manuals, the diameter (and therefore the weight) should also be. It's all about the volume moved.
Wrong again?

Jordi


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## Edvet (11 Feb 2015)

Correct, it's the mass that matters (said the slightly overweight older gentleman)


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## ian_m (11 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> add 10 feet of tubing to your pump, horizontal it will give app as much as advertised, going straight up wil almost stop flow completely, the force of the pumf will be cancelled by the weight of the watercolumn)


But you are assuming you are pumping from an open container into the tank. The pumps "head" is the height it can pump water, say dunked in a bucket. We are talking about a sealed system where the weight of the water in the outlet is completely offset by the weight of the water (actually it is pressure) in the inlet, thus location below the tank, with in reason, does not significantly affect the flow.


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## Edvet (11 Feb 2015)

Ah i see what you mean, my mistake as i work with a sump. But not sure even in a closed system if it works. As i remember from earlier days when i used only eheims i think height still mattered. (but that could be friction/resistance)


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## ian_m (11 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> (but that could be friction/resistance)


With smaller pumps pipe resistance becomes quite a factor. Obviously pressure at the bottom of height of pipe can become significant as well, though if, say 2m height (0.2 bar), is significant enough to cause seals to leak and containers to bow makes any difference, who can tell.


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## parotet (11 Feb 2015)

So when in the instructions you can read 'maximum distance from the canister to the tank 1.8 meters' it is a matter of pressure, not a matter of flow?

Jordi


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## Andy Thurston (11 Feb 2015)

parotet said:


> So when in the instructions you can read 'maximum distance from the canister to the tank 1.8 meters' it is a matter of pressure, not a matter of flow?
> 
> Jordi


Yes


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