# Juwel Rio 180L Aquascape Diary



## andeekaii (28 May 2010)

Hi Guys, I've been on here for over a year but never really an active poster. I've recently purchased a Juewl Rio 180 and i'm about to start my first real aquascape. Last year I made a DIY Co2 planted aquarium but that was a disaster (yeast leaked into tank while on holiday, came back to a green algae mess) But anyway, I'm about to try again!

Apologies for the size of this post but my aim is to create a kind of blog that people can follow, offer assistance, advice and maybe even see their suggestions in the final aquascape. I'm a relative beginner so it could also be helpful to other newbies, to prove it can actually be done.

*Tank Information*
Juwel Rio 180 (180 Litres)
2 x 45W T5 (Stock yellow and white juwel tubes)
2x 39W T5 (Sylvania Grolux (pink) and Phillips (white))
Tetratec EX 700 External Filter (700l/h)
Small pump from wall mounted tank for extra flow (200l/h)
2kg Pressurised Co2
Azoo regulator and solenoid (On its way)
Medium size co2 diffuser (ebay)
TPN+
1x Black Gavel Base Layer
3x Flourite Black Top Layer

*Tanks Current State*
So far I have added the gravel, and that is about it. Im making sure the tank is cycled before planting as I think i killed off a lot of the bacteria in the filter when I swapped from my old tank to this. Water is still a bit cloudly (not sure if its bacterial bloom or flourite) I've done 50% water changes, yesterday and today. I'm not dosing co2 yet and the plants in there are just because I had them left over, they'll be removed when I start aquascaping.


















*What I would like the final tank to look like*
I really like the following images and would like my aquascape to look simillar. I especially like the way the 2 parts are seperated with a kind of "path", located using the 1:1618 ratio that is oh so important  


















*Questions*
*a)* Will my layer of flourite be sufficient for plants to roots efficently and to create an effect of depth. It's 2.5 inches at the front and 4.5 inches at the back. (I can't afford anymore so its irrelevant, but nice to know anyway! )
*
b*) I have 4 T5 lights, i was thinking about 10-12 hour lighting. The 2x 45W juwel lights on from 12:00 til 22:00. And the 2x 39W Sylvania/Phillips on from 16:00 til 19:00 as a 'midday' blast. I chose this time because its when I get home from college and i prefer the extra lighting to view the fish. Is this okay?

*c)* Seeing as I have 3 different coloured bulbs (2x white, 1x yellow and 1x pink), should I put these in a certain arrangement e.g pink at the front so that the low growing carpets get the most useful light? Or is it irrelevant?)
*
d) *I'm presuming the usual 30 minutes before lights on an 30 minutes before lights off applies to the co2?

*e)* Will the filtration be sufficient providing I do the weekly 50% water changes planned? I don't have any money to upgrade this but it's nice to know if its severely lacking?
*
f)* Will TPN+ be okay and what dosing would you recommend based on my lighting, substrate etc?

*g)* At the moment I have my spray bar above the water line, hidden, blowing water into the top of the tank. Is this sufficient or should it be at one end of the tank, or under the water - This is my first external filter so I don't really have a clue.

*h)* This is the main reason I started this topic. I'd like the users here to post their ideas of how I should arrange the tank, which species of plants to use etc. I was hoping members would post a top view plan, and using these plans I could create a group plan encorporating all the features I like and then blogging the progress? This would help me as i'm not the most imaginative and I thought it would also be nice for members here to be able to see their ideas take shape and follow the progress. I'm sure loads of you have ideas but not enough tanks to try it out on! If any of you have spare time I'd really love some ideas, including the names of the species used. Hopefully this could turn into a huge topic and a real diary, showing the problems, as well as the solutions to the problems many face when creating their first planted aquarium.

I hope I haven't bored you, and you're still reading. I'd really like this topic to take off. I'll probably think of more questions throughout the process but that is all for now   

If anyone has any suggestions about anything or needs anymore information on my setup, please let me know. You guys are way more experienced than I am and i'd appreciate your guidance and advice.

*Yours, Andy*


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## ceg4048 (29 May 2010)

andeekaii said:
			
		

> *a)* Will my layer of flourite be sufficient for plants to roots efficently and to create an effect of depth. It's 2.5 inches at the front and 4.5 inches at the back. (I can't afford anymore so its irrelevant, but nice to know anyway! )


Should be fine


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *
> b*) I have 4 T5 lights, i was thinking about 10-12 hour lighting. The 2x 45W juwel lights on from 12:00 til 22:00. And the 2x 39W Sylvania/Phillips on from 16:00 til 19:00 as a 'midday' blast. I chose this time because its when I get home from college and i prefer the extra lighting to view the fish. Is this okay?


170 watts of T5 is an awful lot of light for a 45 gallon tank. Be prepared for a blast of algae.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *c)* Seeing as I have 3 different coloured bulbs (2x white, 1x yellow and 1x pink), should I put these in a certain arrangement e.g pink at the front so that the low growing carpets get the most useful light? Or is it irrelevant?)


Utterly irrelevant. Put them wherever the feeling moves you.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *
> d) *I'm presuming the usual 30 minutes before lights on an 30 minutes before lights off applies to the co2?


The plants will tell you if this is sufficient. I would probably aim for at least 1 hour prior.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *e)* Will the filtration be sufficient providing I do the weekly 50% water changes planned? I don't have any money to upgrade this but it's nice to know if its severely lacking?


900LPH total flow rating is about half of what you need based on the 10X rule. Considering that your flow is anemic I would suggest that you cut your lighting by at least half.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *
> f)* Will TPN+ be okay and what dosing would you recommend based on my lighting, substrate etc?


People who don't have enough money to buy the necessary filtration have no business spending 100X as much as the need for TPN+. If you are on a budget then i suggest that you think about buying dry powders at a substantial savings. The savings incurred might actually be enough to pay for another filter.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *g)* At the moment I have my spray bar above the water line, hidden, blowing water into the top of the tank. Is this sufficient or should it be at one end of the tank, or under the water - This is my first external filter so I don't really have a clue.


This is an extraordinarily bad idea as it stifles flow (which is already an issue) and it breaks the water's surface thereby unnecessarily out-gassing the precious CO2. I would suggest that you get that bar below the water line. I would also suggest that you seriously consider adding more plants as quickly as possible.


			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> *h)* This is the main reason I started this topic. I'd like the users here to post their ideas of how I should arrange the tank, which species of plants to use etc.


Err..well, I can't help you with arranging. I'll leave that to someone else, but, so far, you've managed to break every rule in the book, which I'm sure ranks as some kind of Olympic record and which normally warrants a citation from the EI security forces. However, I have had a chat with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and he agrees that if you implement the changes discussed, the penalty will be reduced to simple flogging (in lieu of the standard penalty - crucifixion.)  

Cheers,


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## Mark Evans (29 May 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Err..well, I can't help you with arranging. I'll leave that to someone else, but, so far, you've managed to break every rule in the book, which I'm sure ranks as some kind of Olympic record and which normally warrants a citation from the EI security forces. However, I have had a chat with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and he agrees that if you implement the changes discussed, the penalty will be reduced to simple flogging (in lieu of the standard penalty - crucifixion.)



clive you kill me   

I'd agree with all of clive's advice. 

the lighting is intense to say he least. 

with CO2, if in doubt, put it on even earlier. if not for your own peace of mind. Maybe even 2 hours before lights on. 

usually, the bigger the tank, the less efficient we are with co2 distribution, so when lights come on we have massive short falls.

 people often use the same method of injection for a 60L as they do for a 240L and think it'll work just fine....not true IME



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> I'd like the users here to post their ideas of how I should arrange the tank, which species of plants to use etc.



I'm afraid this is down to you. Your preference. People could advise, when they are sure you have a better understanding of the basics of a planted tank.

Firstly, Half that lighting.


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## andeekaii (29 May 2010)

Thanks for the replies guys. You don't have to be quite so sarcastic though    I came here for help because I wasn't sure, it's not like im being a know it all 

I'll stick with the 2x45W T5's for now then.

I don't need to add more plants quickly, because at the moment im not injecting co2, or ferts, and i dont have the lights on for particularly long either. I'm making sure I understand everything before i start...



> I'm not dosing co2 yet and the plants in there are just because I had them left over, they'll be removed when I start aquascaping.



Would a Koralia nano be suitable for extra flow? Its rated at 1600 l/h

I also don't see how i've broken every rule? I got the lighting a bit wrong, and my filtration isn't quite up to scratch.. but I haven't actually started my aquascape (for that exact reason of not getting it wrong).

And the reason i asked about tpn+ is because i have a full bottle left from my first aquascape last year. I will change to the EI dry dosing method when needed.

Andy


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## Mark Evans (29 May 2010)

andeekaii said:
			
		

> hanks for the replies guys. You don't have to be quite so sarcastic though  I came here for help because I wasn't sure, it's not like im being a know it all



Mate, it's all cool. nothing is ever said to hurt or offend   



			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> Would a Koralia nano be suitable for extra flow? Its rated at 1600 l/h



no mate, you'll need a number 2 at least.



			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> I also don't see how i've broken every rule? I got the lighting a bit wrong, and my filtration isn't quite up to scratch.



maybe not all, but the 2 mentioned are the main ones.   along with CO2

Andy, your in the right place for advice. I'm sure your the kinda guy who doesn't want people to pussy foot around with half correct suggestions. At least here, you'll get  correct and to the point answers first time.


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## andeekaii (29 May 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> Mate, it's all cool. nothing is ever said to hurt or offend



 



			
				andeekaii said:
			
		

> Would a Koralia nano be suitable for extra flow? Its rated at 1600 l/h
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So a Koralia Evo Nano 1600 wouldn't be enough? With that and my filter I would have a turnover rate of 12x
I can get one for Â£24.99 delivered, thats about as much as I'm willing to spend.

Or a Koralia Evo 2800 would give a 19x turnover rate, but is Â£38 delivered.

If i keep the small pump, adding an extra 200l/h, and i get the Koralia Nano 1600, my overall turnover rate would be 2500l/h, or 14x turnover? Surely that is sufficient?


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## andeekaii (31 May 2010)

I have a Koralia 2 on the way!

But another problem; i've just done a kh and gh test on my tank water and tap water.

Tap Water: KH 2, GH 4
Tank Water: KH 3, GH 5

I am not inhecting Co2 yet, but if i do then my PH is going to sky dive because my KH is so low?
It's 7 - 7.2 at the moment.

I have some seachem equilbrium, which raises the GH, but i don't think that will be necessary as I will be dosing all the correct fertilisers which will increase the GH anyway i presume.

Should i worry about the KH, and think about adding bicarb soda?

Andy


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## andeekaii (1 Jun 2010)

I was just on James planted tank, calculating how to make my EI mixture.
I've noticed that by adding the ammounts he says, that i cant get potassium up to anywhere near 30ppm.

I have 180 litre tank, and i wanted to dose:

KN03 - 60g per 250ml @ 10ml 3x per week = 24ppm Nitrate & 15ppm Potassium (per week)
KH2PO4 - 10g per 250ml @ 10ml 3x per week = 4.5ppm Phosphate & 1.8ppm Potassium (per week)

Which equals:
Nitrate @ 24ppm / week
Potassium @ 16.8ppm / week (Is this a sufficient amount? I'm going for a high tec co2 tank)
Phosphate @ 4.5ppm / week

I was going to also add

K2SO4 - 50g per 250ml @ 10ml 3x per week = 15ppm Potassium

This would bring the total up to 31.8ppm / week, is this correct?

Also, i've noticed magnesium, but none of the EI guides mention adding it? Is this added by manganese in the trace elements or is it usually in the tap water. Am i likely to see plant deficiencies if this level is correct?

Cheers, Andy


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## andeekaii (2 Jun 2010)

Ignore the questions above, i've got answers for them now.

My Manzi wood arrived today (cheers saintly). I really like the 2 tone of it 
Just stuck in the tank for now, weighed down with rocks. Will start scaping when it stops floating (if it ever does)
Should i boil it?

My regulator also arrived and got that hooked up and working 
Also my koralia 2, as you can see in the pictures. And a new spray bar, which i extended so it covers 3/4 of the tank.
It's clear so it blends in really well into the background   

Just waiting for the dry ferts to arrive now.

Cheers, Andy


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## LondonDragon (2 Jun 2010)

The manzi wood will stop floating in a few days, it will also turn much darker, check the later pages of my Rio Journal for an example. keep up the good work, you heading in the right direction


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## andeekaii (2 Jun 2010)

Interesting. Any idea what makes it go darker? I like the colour it is now so i hope it doesn't darken too much


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## LondonDragon (2 Jun 2010)

andeekaii said:
			
		

> Interesting. Any idea what makes it go darker? I like the colour it is now so i hope it doesn't darken too much


It starts soaking water into the wood  nothing you can do about it really.


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## andeekaii (2 Jun 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> andeekaii said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Figures really. lol. Bit of a stupid question wasn't it?


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## nayr88 (2 Jun 2010)

good idea to get all the stuff before the plant mass, so that you have it all ready for a big plant buy up   
obviously keeping the light low for now so as not to get green water of algae on the glass ect.
that wood is real nice are you going to attach moss to it? 

i suck with the whole ei thing do you have a good website so i can have another attempt at it haha.


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## andeekaii (2 Jun 2010)

Yeah, I have my exams in 2 weeks so I actually think im going to leave the plants until then (as much as it kills me)

I haven't actually had ANY problem with any algae so far and im running 78 watts of light for about 10 hours a day. The tank is sparkling.

I really like the wood too. Yes i will be attaching moss, not sure what yet, maybe flame moss?

About the whole EI thing, I think its very confusing (even though its "simple") I've read many many sites and topics and tbh I've kind of just made my own take on it. 

I found this to be the most useful though : http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/EI.htm

Cheers, Andy


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## nayr88 (2 Jun 2010)

ive got tons of plants in my 60 ltr with 50w and 700lph flow from my ehiem and diy co2 untill i order another cannister tomorrow, and  im getting tiny algae spores on the glass, so ive been doing 20ltr water changes every 2days and cut the photo period.

weeping moss is a good one for wood.    i just got a humungo portion of it for a fiver in the for sale thread, he might have some left or have more by the time your exams are over,

is that koralia on of the magnet ones or suction cups? whats it like for noise/vibrating on the glass?


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## andeekaii (2 Jun 2010)

It's a magnet one. It makes a terrible racket, but i think thats because it's broken (God damn ebay)

Its the old koralia 2, not the new evo range.

When/If i repair it, i'll let you know what the noisy is like, but at the moment it vibrates the glass and ive had to unplug it.

I may just repair it and sell it on and get an evo one.

Andy


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## LondonDragon (2 Jun 2010)

Use any moss other than flame, that just goes upwards and for me not the ideal moss to attach to branches of wood. Unless closer to the substrate


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## Harkle420 (6 Jun 2010)

hi dude just been reading this whole thread, look good so far!!  i also so have a rio 180 so will be watching u careful  do u have a spare T5 light bar? i am very intersed in this as a only a T8. My tank was a fish,but now going plants, so i am changing it slowly when time and money let me!!!!    will pm you some pics if you are intersed!! i been reading about El ferts and would like to know what amouts and types you are going to use!!  much love for now, you complete me


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## andeekaii (6 Jun 2010)

Harkle420 said:
			
		

> hi dude just been reading this whole thread, look good so far!!



Thanks 



> i also so have a rio 180 so will be watching u careful  do u have a spare T5 light bar? i am very intersed in this as a only a T8. My tank was a fish,but now going plants, so i am changing it slowly when time and money let me!!!!    will pm you some pics if you are intersed!!



No sorry i dont 



> i been reading about El ferts and would like to know what amouts and types you are going to use!!



I'll let you know when i actually get my plants and start dosing in a few weeks   



> much love for now, you complete me



  

Andy


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## bigmatt (6 Jun 2010)

Hi Andy,
I found the EI thread on James Planted Tank site to be really helpful too.  I've found the easiest thing for me is to dose the dry powders directly into the tank then there's less maths to do!  I also have to keep reminding myself that it is the ESTIMATIVE index!  The numbers don't have to be bang on, and the system work a bit better if you don't obsess about the numbers! I work on the basic assumption that as long as my livestock are well i can keep upping the nutrients to get better plant health.  Having said that i have JUST started EI so we'll see if this stays true... 
Cheers,
Matt


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## andeekaii (9 Jun 2010)

Update today.

Almost ready to order my plants so I had a go at scaping. I remember now why I asked for help scaping in the first post   

I cannot scape to save my life. I'm just not very creative, more technical. If anyone could help me with my ideas i'd be very appeciative. Below are 2 ideas I had, both with a 2/3 focus on the right hand side. But i'd appreciate your guys help making it look better, and if you give any suggestions i'll take a picture and put it up, until "we" finally reach something which is at least acceptable    Excuse the crap pictures   

*SCAPE 1*
The main focus was supposed to be a "tunnel" created by the wood 2/3 to the right of the tank. I will have moss hanging from the wood and plants surrounding it with a carpet plant covering the floor - creating a kind of cave or tunnel. Not sure what to do with the left though.. and also if I should add any rocks or not - you can see the rocks i have in scape 2.











Left





Right





*SCAPE 2*
Like scape 1 i wanted to create a focus 2/3 to the right. This time the opposite of a cave though. The wood goes from the floor up. Once again not sure on rock placement or what to do on the left.














Left





Right





Cheers, Andy


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## beeky (9 Jun 2010)

I prefer the tunnel idea. You're going to lots of plants in there though to make it work and I think your rocks are too small. They'll get swallowed up in a couple of weeks. You could put them in the entrance to the tunnel and keep that bit fairly bare. Not sure on the left most branch. Seems a bit lost - perhaps incorporate it into the tunnel "walls"? Also, perhaps tighten the left part of the tunnel a bit more by bringing it more to the right.

Only initial thoughts. Hope you don't mind.

Cheers,
Graham


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## andeekaii (9 Jun 2010)

Thanks Graham.

I agree that the rocks are too small but i really dont have any more money to spend on this project. 
I could tighten the tunnel entrance but then i really have no clue as to what should be on the left hand side.
Maybe I could create a triangle layout, with the tunnel up high on the left with the plants gradually decreasing in size until the left is just a grass carpet with the odd rock?

Andy


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## andeekaii (9 Jun 2010)

Anyone else?


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## NeilW (9 Jun 2010)

In my humble opinion I would either use either more/beefier hardscape, or do a Dutch sort of thing with plants used as compositional anchor points with the wood you got as 'accents' to break it up.  Just a quick thought.


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## George Farmer (10 Jun 2010)

NeilW said:
			
		

> In my humble opinion I would either use either more/beefier hardscape, or do a Dutch sort of thing with plants used as compositional anchor points with the wood you got as 'accents' to break it up.  Just a quick thought.


Agreed.  Or a nice jungle-style.  Something like this is relatively easy to achieve.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=10739


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## nayr88 (10 Jun 2010)

i like the dutch idea, everyone (including me) is going very NA wouldbe cool to see someone who is new into the scene (again like me) taking that approach rather than the NA style.

what are you thinking now you have the hadscape in place?? theres really nice big rocks in a pile thats the size or a van on the site i work on, really detailed too, they use them as track rocks, to go...on the train tracks lol. i might have to grab a few, take a day trip to london with a big gym bag and there yours......thats IF i can take them and there okai for aquarium use, 

anyone know how i would find this out??


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## murph (10 Jun 2010)

Get some vinigar and put some on, If it fizzes it's bad if not it's most likely inert and probably okay.


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## nayr88 (11 Jun 2010)

lol okai ill take some in my lunch box, haha man i hope i dont get seen 'vinergering' a huge pile of rocks.......


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## andeekaii (20 Jun 2010)

*20th June Update:*

Finally decided on a hardscape. It may not be perfect but i like it, I can always work on improving my hardscapes on the next scape i do 

Doesn't look great at the moment, but was only planted today. Had a bit of a saga with the plants so considering, i think it looks okay. You can read about the plant problem here: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11905

So far the only algae is a little bit of brown on the glass but hopefully that wil clear up once the plants settle down. *I still have some HC on its way which will cover the rest of the floor.*
Anyway here are the pics (Crappy quality, will get better ones when its grown out a bit) Comments and crits please   

Andy






Air bubbles are from water change.


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## russchilds (21 Jun 2010)

Looks really good! The plants stand out really well against the black background. The Cardinals look really nice against the black substrate and the green of the plants. Once you get the HC it will look fantastic!


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## NeilW (21 Jun 2010)

andeekaii said:
			
		

> Finally decided on a hardscape. It may not be perfect but i like it, I can always work on improving my hardscapes on the next scape i do



Nowt wrong with that, the hardscape in this case is complimentary and minimal to the plants.  Looks great, the wood looks really natural.  The only element that looks a little out of place is the largest stone but it still looks OK I think.  Nice


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