# Brown dusty 'algae'



## rudirudi (1 May 2012)

Hi 
My tank has been running for about four weeks I have various plants,all doing ok,but there is a dusty brown 'algae' on the leaves,if you rub the leaves it comes off,is this some sort of diatomic algae,similar to the stuff you get in marine tanks when they are cycling,and will it go away with no intervention from me.

Cheers

Rudi


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## spyder (2 May 2012)

Certainly sounds like diatoms and at 4 weeks is quite normal.

Shrimp and oto's would help clear them up. Lower light levels will also help.


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## rudirudi (2 May 2012)

Cheers Spider
 2xT5s on for 10 hours,2x150w halides on for 4,maybe I'll reduce the time on the T 5's.

Cheers

Rudi


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## spyder (2 May 2012)

rudirudi said:
			
		

> Cheers Spider
> 2xT5s on for 10 hours,2x150w halides on for 4,maybe I'll reduce the time on the T 5's.
> 
> Cheers
> ...



What volume is the tank? I presume you have pressurized co2 to go with that huge amount of light


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## skeletonw00t (2 May 2012)

Just do the T5's for 8 hours


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## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

That is a STONKING amount of light mate !  I would do as skele suggests.  But your other criteria would be helpful to know.  Tank size, CO2 injection method and data etc.


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## rudirudi (3 May 2012)

The tank is 6ft x 2ft x 2ft,thats about 650 litres,I am injecting Co2,Im putting it through a Sera diffuser that is attached to an Eheim cannister,its running at about 3 bubbles per second,my drop checker does'nt seem to alter in colour,so either Im not putting in enough Co2,or the diffuser is not very effective,(thinking of getting a diffuser that goes in the tank to see if this has any effect) any comments,tips would be very welcome.

Cheers

Rudi.


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## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

rudirudi said:
			
		

> The tank is 6ft x 2ft x 2ft,thats about 650 litres,I am injecting Co2,Im putting it through a Sera diffuser that is attached to an Eheim cannister,its running at about 3 bubbles per second,my drop checker does'nt seem to alter in colour,so either Im not putting in enough Co2,or the diffuser is not very effective,(thinking of getting a diffuser that goes in the tank to see if this has any effect) any comments,tips would be very welcome.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Rudi.



3bps for 650L wont even touch it   That volume would need CO2 at a rate that you could not count the bubbles to reach lime green on the DC.  I have 175L and 3bps is about half what I need.  What CO2 system are you using ?  I would suggest that pub gas cylinders would be the cheapest way, although Fire Extinguishers would not be too much.  But if you have one of the off the shelf canisters then it will be costly to get refils via your LFS.

I am sure someone else will jump in and add to this post, but I have mentioned the basics.  

Bear in mind, the shorter your light period and the lower your light intensity, the lower the CO2 and fert requirement will be


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## ian_m (3 May 2012)

Just keep cleaning the dust off the rocks etc and gently wiping off the plants (I use peice of filter floss), regular water changes and replace/clean filter floss and eventually after a month of two it goes away.

I have been told, and sounds plausible that it is caused by silicate in the water and you can stop it by using silicate absorbing media in your filter when you first set up your new tank. JBL do something along these lines.

But I think it absorbs phosphate as well so not compatible if you are using Ei ferts when starting a tank.


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## Skatersav (3 May 2012)

Try an up in line diffuser.  I've found they are more effective.  This assumes you are using an external canister filter.  You also want to ensure you have enough flow and to the right areas otherwise the CO2 you add won't be effective.


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## rudirudi (3 May 2012)

Thanks for the replies,I have 2x500 Co2 cylinders (theory was when one empties I can put the other one in,I take the empty bottle to a local fire extinguisher company,they fill it up for a fiver)So I take on board I will have to up the amount of Co2 I inject.I have 3 cannister filters-1xFX5 Eheim 2071 and an all pond solution 2000,with a Koralia 2300 powerhead.I have been looking for a bigger Co2 bottle,I shall defo look at a different type of diffuser.I have been cleaning the leaves of the plants and they do look alot better.


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## spyder (3 May 2012)

ian_m said:
			
		

> I have been told, and sounds plausible that it is caused by silicate in the water and you can stop it by using silicate absorbing media in your filter when you first set up your new tank.



This debate comes up every now and again.  http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18067

A quick forum search for silicates will show similar stories.


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## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> ian_m said:
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And the upshot as far as I remember is that high silicates do not give rise to brown diatoms right ?


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## rudirudi (3 May 2012)

I used RO water to fill the tank,took about 3 days,would you have silicates in RO water?


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## spyder (3 May 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> spyder said:
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I'll go along with the excess light theory I think, it gets way to technical for me.


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## sWozzAres (3 May 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> And the upshot as far as I remember is that high silicates do not give rise to brown diatoms right ?



In the world of the aquarium that seems to be the case. In reality things are, not surprisingly more complex. I don't think there should be any doubt that silica, in whatever form is major trigger in diatom blooms but you won't always see it unless other factors are in play simultaneously such as light intensity, light period, total light and maybe even current velocity, temperature and other nutrients.


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## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

sWozzAres said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
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Just as well we are talking about the world of the aquarium then, LOL.  I am happy to accept what ceg says about it and denounce silica being an issue.  Its one less thing to worry about


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## sWozzAres (3 May 2012)

don't believe everything you read on t'internet


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## Antipofish (4 May 2012)

sWozzAres said:
			
		

> don't believe everything you read on t'internet



LOL.  You disagree with Clive on this then ? One of our resident experts and acknowledged Guru ? Everything he has told me so far has been correct, or more importantly, worked.  Got no reason not to believe him   

Actually, a very easy test would be for someone with high silicates to get diatoms, then add silicate removal media, and see if they go away all other things being equal.  Of course, brown diatoms often go away of their own accord.

I am beginning to wonder if RO water is the ultimate solution; you know, eliminating the need to worry about "maybe's", but we are on a water meter here


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## sWozzAres (4 May 2012)

I don't think anyone knows why diatoms appear in new tanks. You can look at their life cycle and ecology and try to map this into an aquarium but it never seems to fit.

I was looking through my microscope the other day and noticed an organism that had diatoms in it's "stomach".

So certain microscopic organisms consume diatoms. Someone should cultivate them and sell them in a bottle!

Anyway, new tanks don't have these microscopic organisms, or at least not many. It's going to take them a while to increase their numbers.

So perhaps diatoms grow in every tank regardless of nutrients/light etc but it's the organisms that keep their numbers down. New tanks don't have these organisms so diatoms resume their usual routine of cell division/reproduction resulting in their numbers increasing until the microscopic organisms catch up and eat them all.


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## Antipofish (4 May 2012)

Now that bit is interesting !  Almost like bacteria in the filter ?  Ottos eat diatoms too though dont they ?


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## ian_m (4 May 2012)

sWozzAres said:
			
		

> I don't think anyone knows why diatoms appear in new tanks. You can look at their life cycle and ecology and try to map this into an aquarium but it never seems to fit.


In my area Southampton/Eastligh SO postcode, with very very very hard water coming from Twyford (from chalk), we can stop brown diatoms appearing when setting up tank by putting Silicate remover in filter apparently, I have been told by numerous people/fish shops (or just setup using RO water). I don't think it is silicate supplied in the water but something in the water that allows silicate to be leached/reacted/dissoved out of the substrate on initial setup.

Also can and does reappear after massive substrate fiddling around in conjunction with water change.

Anyway the brown diatoms eventually get less and less (4 weeks odd) and stop becoming a problem. Local shops can supply fish that will eat the diatoms & algea, but I noticed what they were trying to sell me could grow to 20-30cm !!!! So research carefully.


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## sWozzAres (4 May 2012)

Antipofish said:
			
		

> Now that bit is interesting !  Almost like bacteria in the filter ?  Ottos eat diatoms too though dont they ?


Apparently so, and Amano Shrimp are probably even better.

Ciliates however don't seem to be considered. This experiment tried to determine the rate at which ciliates eat diatoms

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u8l9052474q24363/

Up to 90 a day, which doesn't seem much but you can have many thousands of these things munching away.

This video shows a ciliate eating 2 diatoms in 15 seconds!

http://www.microbelibrary.org/libra...ample-which-shows-ciliates-preying-on-diatoms


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## ian_m (4 May 2012)

Maybe that is what is happening it takes a week or two for the number of cilliates in a new tank to get to great enough numbers to make a difference.


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## sWozzAres (4 May 2012)

Exactly right. Makes one wonder what else these microscopic organisms get up to and what effect they have on a tank. "New tank syndrome" could be exclusively because of a lack of microorganisms and an "established tank" might be one with lots of microorganisms. Do water changes suck out lots of microorganisms, does excel kill them? The mind boggles


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## ian_m (14 May 2012)

Put 6 dwarf "ottos" in tank this weekend, who immediately set to work on the brown diatoms and in just two days appear to have scoffed the lot. Quite amazon difference it has made to the plants.

Feel bit bad now, as I cleaned and pruned the tank of "brown" covered leaves and wiped as much away as possible before adding the fish. Should have left it for them to eat.

You can see tracks on one of my bits if wood where they have been munching the slight covering of BBA as well.

Quite impressive busy boys and girls.

Appear to be quite unaffected by the CO2 as well.


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## rudirudi (19 May 2012)

The tank has been runnung about six weeks now and all the diatoms have gone,I reduced the MH's to one hour a day and run the T5's for seven,not sure if the depletion was due to reduction of the photo period,or to natural cycling,any way its gone,now waiting for the next outbreak of something else green and ugly.

Rudi


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