# Shy Embers



## ADA (8 Jun 2015)

Anyone had this? Bought about 30 for my 120P and they're all hiding and have done since day 1 2 weeks ago.


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## Iain Sutherland (8 Jun 2015)

not personally with embers but ive always found shy fish to be co2 related... or more accurately o2 related.

Embers are also from low flow environments, might be worth flicking the filters off for half hour and wait and see if they all come out..??


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## zozo (9 Jun 2015)

You mean Ember Tetra?  I got 11 of them in a not fully grown heavily planted tank.  They love surface vegitation, dimmed lights and as Iain says moderate flow. I have my Co2 spot on at the turning point 6.3/6.4 if i go 6.2 i see their gils move. I can't say they are that skittish they only team up and hide when i work in the tank. For the rest of the day they are exploring the whole tank in small groups or a pair. I have an adjustable outflow and i notice they realy are sensitive to flow changes, if i change it drasticaly to half speed they school up for a minute or 2 then start exploring again, the same when i go up full speed again, but then they school up in the high flow corner of the tank. My high flow is still moderate because i use the ball shape lily.

Also using a programmable dimmer and when the lights slowly go under the 20 % they realy come to life, then you see what they realy like. They show heirarchy, chasing and playing sham battle and shooting trough the tank low under the surface vegitagion, the girls are most cheeky and bossy. It's like seeing them play hide and seek in the hanging Salvinia roots. At highlight during the day they rather stay mid to few inches above the bottom, sometimes under the nymphea leaves under the surface. Alway on guard. If i move to much in front of the tank or take a cloth to wipe the window they emidiately school up, dive down and search a corner. Mostly deep down in the high flow right above the substrate, like a predator is in its disadvantage there and it is. Mostl predators are oppertunist hunt on sight hiding in the bush. So down dark they are safer

That's what i experience with my Embers.. They are together with 7 Pygmae Cory's, 6 Amano Shrimps and 6 Oto's, so they have nothing to worry about but me.

These are taken a few minutes ago during high light..From left to right and as you see Embers all over.




















I breed my own Daphnia and once a week i shut down the pump for an half an hour and feed them the live baby Daphnia. Then you'll see they are predatory themselfs, they love to hunt and kill the big once in teams. Little backstabbers they are..


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## Mr. Teapot (10 Jun 2015)

My embers used to be very shy. I didn't see them at all. They hid at the back behind the plants and wood whenever anyone was in the room. You could get a glimps of them going about their business if you stayed very still and sat a fair distance away from the tank.... until the rams visited. It made a huge difference to their character. They're out and about all the time now, jostling each other for food or in a shole at the front of the tank.

Couldn't tell you why they changed. Perhaps the rams are so relaxed the tetras no longer see me as a threat or maybe they can only process one potential predator at a time and their attention is focused on their two larger tank mates? I think the most likely cause of their timid nature is they're built that way and just behaving naturally.


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## zozo (10 Jun 2015)

Change your flow direction and they move with it accordingly in how they perceive it. I've been playing and testing my flow for several weeks to find the most suitable setup for my scape. And every time i changed it the embers changed their place as wel. When my outflow was directed straight to the opposite diagonal corner i had a bounce back of flow against my tanks front shield. I saw the embers move up very closely to the front shield swimging back and fort all the time 2/3 the lengt of the tank and than back in to the highflow corner. At that tiem the plants were still small and not reali having effect on the flow, so the water just swirled aroun in the tank.

I moved the lilypipe 2 inches back to the rear side of the tank and it bounces back from the side panel instead of the opposite diagonal corner (to get more flow in the back corner) and i see the embers move with it more to the midlle of the tank i bit more away from the from the front sheild. My bounce back is still directed to flow againts the front shield back to the inflow i left it like that now for weeks. Mean while some plants are growing and spreading the flow and spreading the embers as well.

If you use a lilypipe outflow give it a try, change the flow direction to turn the lilypipe an 1/2 an inch, you might see the embers move with it.  I tried several different directions and each time the ember behaivor changed with it..


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## sciencefiction (10 Jun 2015)

There are a ton of reasons for fish to be shy.
I agree too high flow can be one of them.
But you've had your fish for only 2 weeks. It takes them around 6 weeks to adjust to new conditions fully.  If you specifically haven't drip acclimated,  fish tend to be very shy and go into hiding until their body gets used to the new chemistry. This is the period during which they may also get sick as their immune system is weaker because of the stress.  I find that drip acclimated fish adjust way faster and develop less subsequent problems.


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## zozo (10 Jun 2015)

Have to agree with SF as well.. Did mis the point that you only have them for 2 weeks now. Give them time to settle down and be comfortable in their new habitat. Mine also did school very close togheter the fisrt 3 to 4 weeks at day time, only by night they came loos a bit. Now they are constantly all over the tank exploring and playing doesn't matter wath time it is. Now the time only regulates the depht they go, daytime down, night time up . But i've seen video's of tanks with Embers and such a high flow that they where more strugling like salmons on their way to the breeding grounds. There was no spot in that tank for them to escape the heavy flow.. In such setups you shouldn't keep Embers that's not a natural look nor fun for the fish i guess, that was more a Pleco tank. But some tank owners think more about the plants when it comes to flow and lights then about the fish species they put in there with it.
Imho, the fish should always come first, then the rest..


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## ADA (15 Jun 2015)

Thanks guys, defo the flow, 4 hour clean/maintenance session yesterday and after the filters were off they were schooling at the front the whole time lol


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## zozo (26 Jun 2015)

How are they now?  And if, what and how did you change?

Mine are so tame at the moment they almost nibble the cats tounge when he come to drink. 




Actualy i found out the the pygmy Cory's are even more flow sensitive than the embers. I reduced my flow for about 20 % and wait a day the cory's swim more often in the mid sections and see them longer at places in the tank they normaly avoid.


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## ADA (27 Jun 2015)

I didn't change anything really, just switched filters off for maintenance and they were out, the more the stems grow at the back the less places they'll have to hide soon plus the stems will limit the flow soon so hoping they'll venture out more often


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## xim (27 Jun 2015)

zozo said:


> Mine are so tame at the moment they almost nibble the cats tounge when he come to drink.



IME, I think Embers have the highest braveness to body mass ratio.


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## zozo (27 Jun 2015)

xim said:


> IME, I think Embers have the highest braveness to body mass ratio.


Haha  indeed and the best apetite. All that moves out of the ordenary is giving a FOOD! impuls. And the girls are constantly squabbling among eachother. They are amusing fish to watch when feeling at home and safe.

I feed a lot of froozen food instead of dry got such a multipack with 4 different menu's and i like to tease them with it. By putting the lump of froozen foot in the floating vegitation near the filter outlet, takes a minute before it starts to fall apart and spread. Takes only 3 seconds for them to smell it, and then the whole bunch gets nervously schooling togheter not knowing where look.


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## Tim Harrison (27 Jun 2015)

In my iwagumi, Primordial, they seemed OK with the flow, which was way more than 10x volume - but they could still hide in the slacks behind rocks and get out of the flow if they wanted to...


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## zozo (27 Jun 2015)

Troi said:


> In my iwagumi, Primordial, they seemed OK with the flow, which was way more than 10x volume - but they could still hide in the slacks behind rocks and get out of the flow if they wanted to...



Than it probably is something in the scape which alters the flow they adapt to.. Every tank is unique in that way i guess. If i play with the flow power is see drastic behaivor changes if the flow drasticaly changes.. But got a large group of rotala's in front of the outflow.. Maybe that is creating a rather unfamiliar change in vortex's for them around the tank. Always take's some time for them to adapt and settle get used to the new situation. I can play between 5 and 12 volt with a 600 l/h pump for about 40 liters. I do not know my real effective flow rate only got a volt meter attached. I settled at 10 volts after playing a while looks like the best rate for my setup and fish behaivor.  Everything is all over the tank at that rate. 

Nice Iwagumi btw..


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