# Shrimps in high tech: how to do water changes and dose fertlisers



## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

Hello all,

I'm fairly new to high tech tanks and shrimp keeping. I'm basically scared to do large water changes and to use a high dosage of fertilisers.  

How do you keep shrimps in a high tech tank? 

For water changes:
EI method suggests 50% weekly
Shrimp keepers suggest 10% weekly eco
I tried doing 30% weekly but that still causes me to lose a shrimp the day after and I'm starting to get some algae. 
I age the water for a day, I match temp kh and gh and use a pump to add the water back in over the course of an hour. I can't match the ph. 

My worries are I lose cherry shrimps every now and then and my nitrates are a bit high 20-40 on the api test. Amanos seem to thrive and get berried. 

This is a 200L heavily planted tank with 17 rummynose tetras, 5 honey gouramis, 8 otos, nerites and amano, cherry and crystal shrimps
Ph 6.5-7.3 (co2), kh 2, gh 4, temp 23C 
I'm dosing 6ml of TNC complete daily and have tropica soil.


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## Aqua360 (12 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm fairly new to high tech tanks and shrimp keeping. I'm basically scared to do large water changes and to use a high dosage of fertilisers.
> 
> ...


Have you measured TDS?


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## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

Yes. TDS is around 250 in the tank. 
170 in the bucket (after seachem equilibrium)


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## KirstyF (12 Nov 2022)

I notice you say you age the water, do you use any treatment? ie dechlorinator 

My understanding is that ageing the water for 24hrs may not remove all chlorine (as this can sometimes take longer to disperse) and will not remove chloramine which is not uncommon in tap water these days.

I also have high nitrate in my tap water (certainly 30ppm plus) and I fill straight from tap to tank (50% pw) but always use seachem prime based on full tank volume. 

PH difference from tap to tank is around a 1ph drop (as I use Co2 and water change during photoperiod)

Cherrys are thriving. 😊


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## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

Hello yes I use prime too. 
Could it be the tds? 


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## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

KirstyF said:


> I notice you say you age the water, do you use any treatment? ie dechlorinator
> 
> My understanding is that ageing the water for 24hrs may not remove all chlorine (as this can sometimes take longer to disperse) and will not remove chloramine which is not uncommon in tap water these days.
> 
> ...



Nitrates from tap are zero. It's all from the tnc I think  


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## KirstyF (12 Nov 2022)

In my personal experience that seems unlikely. My tap is 250-260. (I have hard water around 11-12kh/gh)  The shrimp tank (planted) sits around 330 - 360 and the main tank can top 400 depending on what ferts regime I’m using. (I experiment quite a lot with ferts).

I have cherries breeding in both.







Whilst I won’t claim this is an ideal and I wouldn’t choose to keep anything other than cherries or amanos, I’ve not experienced any issues with these and have found them to be tough little critters. 

I would personally be surprised to see your tds lead to losses.


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## KirstyF (12 Nov 2022)

Have you noticed any symptoms on your shrimp that have died?

A white ring around the body (failed moult) or any parasites. It could be that you have another underlying issue that is not related to your water change and spotting them a day after could just be a coincidence.

Happy for any shrimpy experts to leap in here with ideas!!


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## dw1305 (12 Nov 2022)

Hi all,





neofy705 said:


> Nitrates from tap are zero. It's all from the tnc I think


Where do you live?

Cheers Darrel


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## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Where do you live?
> 
> Cheers Darrel



I live in Birmingham 


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## neofy705 (12 Nov 2022)

KirstyF said:


> Have you noticed any symptoms on your shrimp that have died?
> 
> A white ring around the body (failed moult) or any parasites. It could be that you have another underlying issue that is not related to your water change and spotting them a day after could just be a coincidence.
> 
> Happy for any shrimpy experts to leap in here with ideas!!



Failed molts is what I suspect. Sometimes I see the white ring yes. 


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## Jaseon (12 Nov 2022)

TNC is a weekly dose? or 2-3 times per week depending on plant growth/water changes? Not saying thats got anything to do with your shrimp issues.

Its usually thought of that shrimp do not like big water changes and temperature swings. Seeing you say you're losing them after a water change im goin for that as a strong culprit. 

Also, and im not picking here, but im not to keen about keeping neocaridinas with fish. If you like the idea of them maybe think of doing a tank just for them.


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## ElleDee (12 Nov 2022)

Are these shrimp new and did you get them as adults? 

When I first got cherries it was recommended that I get juveniles because they adapt more easily, but because I could only find the color morph I wanted as adults, so I ignored the advice. My water parameters were nearly identical to the water they were in and I had a very mature, stable tank, so I figured it would be fine. But I gradually lost the original shrimp one by one over a period of months no matter how careful I was. It sucked. However, some did reproduce before they dropped and all their descendants have been very hardy and prolific. I don't do anything special for them during water changes at all now. I am still not really sure what I could have done to save the original set, but it doesn't matter now - the problem, whatever it was, ended with them. I have since read multiple other people report bad luck with their original shrimp and then no issues at all with the subsequent generations. 

I don't know if that fits your situation, but it's not unheard of.


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## dw1305 (12 Nov 2022)

Hi all,


neofy705 said:


> I live in Birmingham


You might have very soft, nitrate free <"Elan Valley"> water.

Cherry Shrimps don' t get on very well in very soft water.

What does your water report say?

Cheers Darrel


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## neofy705 (13 Nov 2022)

Jaseon said:


> TNC is a weekly dose? or 2-3 times per week depending on plant growth/water changes? Not saying thats got anything to do with your shrimp issues.
> 
> Its usually thought of that shrimp do not like big water changes and temperature swings. Seeing you say you're losing them after a water change im goin for that as a strong culprit.
> 
> Also, and im not picking here, but im not to keen about keeping neocaridinas with fish. If you like the idea of them maybe think of doing a tank just for them.



Tnc is daily using a dosing pump. 

I do my water changes on Sundays. On Monday I'll have a dead shrimp and on Tuesday another one. Then nothing for the rest of the week. 

I might do an endler/shrimp tank at one point but it's so common to see shrimps in a high tech tank. I thought I could do it too. I chose fish that are ok with shrimps for that reason. I haven't seen any fish bother the shrimps at all. 


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## neofy705 (13 Nov 2022)

ElleDee said:


> Are these shrimp new and did you get them as adults?
> 
> When I first got cherries it was recommended that I get juveniles because they adapt more easily, but because I could only find the color morph I wanted as adults, so I ignored the advice. My water parameters were nearly identical to the water they were in and I had a very mature, stable tank, so I figured it would be fine. But I gradually lost the original shrimp one by one over a period of months no matter how careful I was. It sucked. However, some did reproduce before they dropped and all their descendants have been very hardy and prolific. I don't do anything special for them during water changes at all now. I am still not really sure what I could have done to save the original set, but it doesn't matter now - the problem, whatever it was, ended with them. I have since read multiple other people report bad luck with their original shrimp and then no issues at all with the subsequent generations.
> 
> I don't know if that fits your situation, but it's not unheard of.



Hello yes these shrimps are new and I believe are all adults except for 1 crystal that's a juvenile. 

I've heard this before too. I'm hoping they breed so I can finally have a healthy population of them. 


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## neofy705 (13 Nov 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> You might have very soft, nitrate free /www.elanvalley.org.uk/discover/reservoirs-dams/birminghams-water']Elan Valley[/URL]"> water.
> 
> ...



Hi Darrel,

Water report states 3gh, 0 nitrates and it tests 0 for kh (hence the ph value is not really reliably measured). 
Tds about 60. 

It's very soft. I essentially treat it like it's ro water. 
I remineralise with seachem equilibrium and kh up and supplement with calcium blocks once a week. 

I feed king shrimp mineral, complete and protein and bacter ae. 

This is why I'm a bit disheartened. 


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## Jaseon (13 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> Tnc is daily using a dosing pump.



Im just going off the recommended dosage from them. Its just a side note as my father in law started using it in his tanks as a weekly dose per the instructions.



neofy705 said:


> I'm hoping they breed so I can finally have a healthy population of them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dont think you will achieve that in a tank with fish.  Even if the shrimp manage to breed at all they will be so stressed with the fish nipping, and chasing them, and the young will be eaten. These shrimp are quite fragile especially when they molt.


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## ElleDee (13 Nov 2022)

Jaseon said:


> I dont think you will achieve that in a tank with fish.  Even if the shrimp manage to breed at all they will be so stressed with the fish nipping, and chasing them, and the young will be eaten. These shrimp are quite fragile especially when they molt.



This has not been my experience at all. I have large shrimp colonies with nano fish in all my tanks and the adult shrimp are entirely unbothered by the fish. I have only witnessed shrimplets being eaten a handful of times, and in every instance that was because I disturbed a shrimplet hiding spot during cleaning and caused a cloud of them in the water column. I don't know why my fish have never figured out there are snacks all around them, but they just haven't.

I don't disagree that keeping fish and shrimp together is a _potential_ conflict that everyone should be aware of before combining them, but not a guaranteed issue. I've definitely read about people who had issue with micro rasbora and shrimp and I don't doubt their experience, but I've never seen my chili rasbora go after even the smallest shrimplet. (I honestly wouldn't mind some help with population control in that tank.) It seems every tank is different.

I would be more concerned about trying to keep cherries and crystal shrimp together, but I've never kept crystals personally and that's just based on stuff I have read.


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## Jaseon (13 Nov 2022)

ElleDee said:


> This has not been my experience at all. I have large shrimp colonies with nano fish in all my tanks and the adult shrimp are entirely unbothered by the fish. I have only witnessed shrimplets being eaten a handful of times, and in every instance that was because I disturbed a shrimplet hiding spot during cleaning and caused a cloud of them in the water column. I don't know why my fish have never figured out there are snacks all around them, but they just haven't.
> 
> I don't disagree that keeping fish and shrimp together is a _potential_ conflict that everyone should be aware of before combining them, but not a guaranteed issue. I've definitely read about people who had issue with micro rasbora and shrimp and I don't doubt their experience, but I've never seen my chili rasbora go after even the smallest shrimplet. (I honestly wouldn't mind some help with population control in that tank.) It seems every tank is different.
> 
> I would be more concerned about trying to keep cherries and crystal shrimp together, but I've never kept crystals personally and that's just based on stuff I have read.


Im not sure i would call Rummynose tetras, and  honey gouramis nano fish. Im just going off what the owner has in his tank now.  You might get pockets hiding out in quiet areas of the tank, but to me that not much of a life. Can you have them together? sure, but they wont thrive or achieve the colony hes looking for.

When these kind of discussions crop up i always try to persuade to keep these shrimp in a dedicated tank of their own.


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## ElleDee (13 Nov 2022)

@Jaseon Ah, ok. I understood you to mean shrimp + fish in general rather than those specific ones.


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## Jaseon (13 Nov 2022)

ElleDee said:


> @Jaseon Ah, ok. I understood you to mean shrimp + fish in general rather than those specific ones.


I always encourage shrimp only no matter if its nano or just your usual community fish. Its the same with those nano set ups for shrimp like jars, and small bowls. I think sometimes shrimp dont get the same treatment that we do with our fish. We wouldn't treat our fish like that, but shrimp is all i keep so im a bit picky, and bias about it. My next tank is going to be set up for breeding Reticulated hillstream loaches.  I have set up, and care for 3 other planted tanks with community fish that belong to my father in law so will be a nice change for me.
​


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## neofy705 (13 Nov 2022)

Jaseon said:


> Im not sure i would call Rummynose tetras, and honey gouramis nano fish. Im just going off what the owner has in his tank now. You might get pockets hiding out in quiet areas of the tank, but to me that not much of a life. Can you have them together? sure, but they wont thrive or achieve the colony hes looking for.
> 
> When these kind of discussions crop up i always try to persuade to keep these shrimp in a dedicated tank of their own.



Even in a dedicated tank of their own I'd still have the same questions about water changes and fertilisers. 

There's no doubt that fish complicate things but i'm thinking if improving the water changes and nitrates can make things better for them. 

Honey gouramis IME are not a threat to adult neos. I see them pick food from the substrate half an inch from cherries without them showing interest in the shrimp or the shrimp being scare. 

In my case it's a fairly large tank, the rummynose school tightly and are mostly on the mid region of the tank. Honeys are mostly at the top. Even dead shrimp are not being touched. So I think the fish selection is not the problem here even if it's not ideal


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## Jaseon (14 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> i'm thinking if improving the water changes and nitrates can make things better for them.


Looks like you're trying to have your cake and eat it 

I dont think the cost of you upsetting an already dialed in system is worth it.

Lets us know what you end up doing /deciding.


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## keef321 (14 Nov 2022)

I wouldn’t worry about the quantity of ferts you are using. I dose 12ml per day of TNC complete & 2ml per day of TNC Iron in my 60 litre co2 injected tank and both my cherry shrimp and Amanos are all happy. The shrimp do have plenty of hiding places though when young though such as the dwarf hair grass. My only fish are a shoal 19 ember tetras so only the baby shrimp could ever potentially be a meal. My cherry shrimps breed like mad 😀


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## neofy705 (14 Nov 2022)

Jaseon said:


> Looks like you're trying to have your cake and eat it
> 
> I dont think the cost of you upsetting an already dialed in system is worth it.
> 
> Lets us know what you end up doing /deciding.



I didn't mean to come across as ignorant. As I said I'm only a newbie to shrimp keeping and high tech tanks. 

It's mostly a question of how are shrimp affected by the 50% water changes and high ferts dosing in high tech tanks. 

I see a lot of people keeping shrimps in high tech tanks with fish. I'm trying to understand how they make it work as both EI/WC/co2 and fish complicate things. 

I appreciate ur input. I'm considering converting my other tank to a shrimp only tank and once I have a growing population to transfer the culls in the main tank. 


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## Andy Pierce (14 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> I see a lot of people keeping shrimps in high tech tanks with fish. I'm trying to understand how they make it work as both EI/WC/co2 and fish complicate things.


I keep amanos (and fish) in an EI/CO2 environment with 50% weekly water changes without obvious problems for the amanos.  I also keep cherrys in a separate no-fish no-CO2 1/2 EI environment again with 50% weekly water changes and again without obvious problems.  The shrimp happily bred up to food capacity - I don't ever feed the shrimp other than what they can get from biofilm in the tank.  I use dechlorinated (Tetra AquaSafe) Cambridgeshire tap water which is off-the-scale hard.  If you're having moulting problems with very soft water my first thought would be calcium deficiency, not anything to do with EI, water changes or CO2 as such.


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## neofy705 (14 Nov 2022)

Andy Pierce said:


> I keep amanos (and fish) in an EI/CO2 environment with 50% weekly water changes without obvious problems for the amanos. I also keep cherrys in a separate no-fish no-CO2 1/2 EI environment again with 50% weekly water changes and again without obvious problems. The shrimp happily bred up to food capacity - I don't ever feed the shrimp other than what they can get from biofilm in the tank. I use dechlorinated (Tetra AquaSafe) Cambridgeshire tap water which is off-the-scale hard. If you're having moulting problems with very soft water my first thought would be calcium deficiency, not anything to do with EI, water changes or CO2 as such.



So I just checked my tank with a flashlight. Granted it's a big tank will loads of plants and hiding places. I could see 5 cherry shrimp and 2 of them developed a saddle (?). They have yellowish backs behind their heads. Is this positive? 
Out of the 3 crystals I ordered (as a test) 2 are alive and very active. 

The amanos are enjoying life! All of them very active day and night. One of them is fanning what looks like a thousand eggs. 

I fed with shrimp king protein and mineral now that most fish are asleep. 


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## Jaseon (15 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> I didn't mean to come across as ignorant. As I said I'm only a newbie to shrimp keeping and high tech tanks.
> 
> It's mostly a question of how are shrimp affected by the 50% water changes and high ferts dosing in high tech tanks.
> 
> ...


No you're not coming across as ignorant. Its good to flesh these things out so we all learn a little something different.  

If i set my heart on doing a community style tank with shrimp i would establish the shrimp first then add the fish as juveniles.


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## MichaelJ (15 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> It's mostly a question of how are shrimp affected by the 50% water changes and high ferts dosing in high tech tanks.


Hi @neofy705   Speaking from a low-tech perspective (not much different in this context) . 50% and high fertilizer dosing (within meaningful limits)  is not a problem as long as you keep things stable. That is, if the WC water is similar to the water you take out of the tank in terms of water parameters you should be fine...  which is quite easy if you maintain and dose consistently.  What shrimps in particular are sensitive to are fluctuating water parameters that influences osmotic pressure which in turn can cause osmotic stress.  Fish are more tolerant even though they generally dislike fluctuations as well.  And of course keeping water parameters healthy and stable is always a winning strategy for your overall tank health.  Shrimps need a good deal of Calcium and magnesium to properly support development of their exoskeleton and molting process. A GH of 4 as you quote is on the low side.  You need to increase that to  the +5 GH range with the remineralizer your using (seachem equilibrium) to be on the safe side.

Looks like you have plenty of hiding places for shimplets/juveniles  from micro predators such as the tetras and that’s a good thing.

Other than that you should be good.  

Cheers,
Michael


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## neofy705 (15 Nov 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Hi @neofy705 Speaking from a low-tech perspective (not much different in this context) . 50% and high fertilizer dosing (within meaningful limits) is not a problem as long as you keep things stable. That is, if the WC water is similar to the water you take out of the tank in terms of water parameters you should be fine... which is quite easy if you maintain and dose consistently. What shrimps in particular are sensitive to are fluctuating water parameters that influences osmotic pressure which in turn can cause osmotic stress. Fish are more tolerant even though they generally dislike fluctuations as well. And of course keeping water parameters healthy and stable is always a winning strategy for your overall tank health. Shrimps need a good deal of Calcium and magnesium to properly support development of their exoskeleton and molting process. A GH of 4 as you quote is on the low side. You need to increase that to the +5 GH range with the remineralizer your using (seachem equilibrium) to be on the safe side.
> 
> Looks like you have plenty of hiding places for shimplets/juveniles from micro predators such as the tetras and that’s a good thing.
> 
> ...



Thanks Michael, when it comes to matching the parameters of the water I match kh, gh and temp (and age the water to stabilise the ph). I find it impossible to match ph and tds. 

Since I'm using aqua soil the ph of the tank is close to neutral. But adjusting for gh and kh results in an alkaline water (in the bucket) 

Do you match all parameters? 


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## jamiepearson (15 Nov 2022)

for what it's worth, I have a broadly similar set up to you. I started with ~25 cherry shrimp in December and now could easily have a thousand. 

120cm tank, very heavy planted and with tetra and cory. High energy and CO2, KH 2-3 GH 5, EI ferts with 50-60% weekly water change. Careful to match parameters

I don't overfeed the tank. I have a shrimp feeding dish, which they learned to use after two days, that I spot feed them a variety of dedicated shrimp foods with minerals


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## dw1305 (15 Nov 2022)

Hi all,


Andy Pierce said:


> I use dechlorinated (Tetra AquaSafe) Cambridgeshire tap water which is off-the-scale hard. If you're having moulting problems with very soft water my first thought would be calcium deficiency, not anything to do with EI, water changes or CO2 as such.





MichaelJ said:


> Shrimps need a good deal of Calcium and magnesium to properly support development of their exoskeleton and molting process. A GH of 4 as you quote is on the low side. You need to increase that to the +5 GH range with the remineralizer your using (seachem equilibrium) to be on the safe side.


That would be my guess as well.

cheers Darrel


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## neofy705 (15 Nov 2022)

Taking into account what everyone said yesterday I increased the gh to 5-6 and kh to 3. I did this over 7 hours using a drip system. Tds jumped to 300! 
I don't know if it's a coincidence or placebo but all the shrimp look more active. 

I believe kh3 and gh5 is the ideal middle ground for caridina and neocaridina. 

I have rescaped my 54l tank with the intention of converting it to a shrimp tank. In doing that I had to move my 10 cory babies to the main tank. (Born and raised in that tank but their growth was stunted... this is the reason I bought the bigger tank). After a year they are the size or a cherry shrimp. So far they are chilling together. 








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## MichaelJ (15 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> Do you match all parameters?



Yes, I do, but I also use 100% RO water which makes this much easier.   I prepare my WC water to match all  target parameters (N/P/K/Ca/Mg) and I _age _my WC water usually for a day as well to make sure it reaches a matching temperature   (within a degree C or so) and to outgas any dissolved gasses such as CO2 the water treatment plant might add which is not removed by the RO system - not sure how much of an issue this really is, but since I have the water sitting there anyway I take any additional benefit the aging might give.  My GH by the Ca/Mg dosing sits around ~5.5 GH and my KH just below ~1 KH (0.75 KH).

What’s the tds of your straight tap btw? 

Cheers,
Michael


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## neofy705 (17 Nov 2022)

Tds from tap ranges from 60-90. 


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## MichaelJ (18 Nov 2022)

neofy705 said:


> Tds from tap ranges from 60-90.


That’s usually great water to start with - unless it’s high on zinc,  copper or other serious contaminants. If your only adding equilibrium to raise your GH 2-3 GH on top of your tap’s 3 GH and doing TNC complete (?) according to what you state above your TDS shouldn’t really much higher than 150 ppm or the lower 200 ppm range -
depending on your actual tap reading (60 vs 90 ppm).  I understand that your also raising KH? What chemicals are you using to do that ?  My advice would be to not worry about KH -  it probably shouldn’t be a clean zero. Around  or slightly below 1 is fine and similar to most natural habitats for our tropical plants and  livestock.

Cheers,
Michael


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## neofy705 (18 Nov 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> That’s usually great water to start with - unless it’s high on zinc, copper or other serious contaminants. If your only adding equilibrium to raise your GH 2-3 GH on top of your tap’s 3 GH and doing TNC complete (?) according to what you state above your TDS shouldn’t really much higher than say the lower 200 ppm range. I understand that your also raising KH? What chemicals are you using to do that ? My advice would be to not worry about KH - it probably shouldn’t be a clean zero - around or slightly below 1 is fine and similar to most natural habitats for our tropical plants and livestock.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael







Hi Michael, I'm using this. 
I'm not too sure what to do with the kh if I'm being honest. The tropica soil I'm using lowers the ph. Before I added livestock the ph would drop to 5.5! So I added some kh up to buffer the water as I was worried snails and cherries would struggle. 
I also use it to match the tds of the WC water with the tank water. 


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## dw1305 (18 Nov 2022)

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> That’s usually great water to start with - unless it’s high on zinc, copper or other serious contaminants


You are fine at the moment in the UK, because we are still using the EU rules and they are <"very, very proscriptive"> about heavy metal levels, once the <"BREXIT bonus"> fully kicks in <"Flint, Michigan beckons">.


neofy705 said:


> I'm using this.
> I'm not too sure what to do with the kh if I'm being honest. The tropica soil I'm using lowers the ph. Before I added livestock the ph would drop to 5.5! So I added some kh up to buffer the water as I was worried snails and cherries would struggle.


The simple answer would be to stop keeping Cherry Shrimps and hard water snails.  Personally that is what I'd do, it just cuts out a lot of mucking about.

If you did want to carry on with them? Then adding some <"Oyster Shell Chick Grit"> to the tank will add both dGH and dKH  (<"at a ratio of 1 : 1">) and literally <"costs chicken feed">. *
* If that links stop working it £2 for a kilogram.

As the others have said lots of plants and fish (and some shrimps) do better in softer water and your active substrate will carry on softening the water until it is exhausted (when the conc. of calcium ( Ca++) ions is the same in substrate and water). The problem, with most of what you read about <"pH stability">, is that it was written by people who don't understand water chemistry and / or want to sell you a product.

In terms of the NT labs "KH up" it is a very expensive way of purchasing either sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) or potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) (one or both will be on the label). I know it will be one, or the other, because it is only the <"carbonates of group one metals that are soluble">.

Potassium bicarbonate would be more suitable (potassium (K)+ is a plant nutrient, sodium (Na+) isn't), but <"the bicarbonate ion (HCO3-) is exactly the same"> in both cases), but I'll guess it is totally / mainly NaHCO3, just because it is a fractionally cheaper chemical to buy.

cheers Darrel


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## neofy705 (18 Nov 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> You are fine at the moment in the UK, because we are still using the EU rules and they are /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/need-advice-on-balancing-my-tank-to-remove-gsa-staghorn-algae.68078/#post-675147']very, very proscriptive[/URL]"> about heavy metal levels, once the /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-to-improve-resiliency-of-in-vitro-plants.69938/page-2#post-708482']BREXIT bonus[/URL]"> fully kicks in /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis']Flint, Michigan beckons[/URL]">.
> 
> ...



Hi Darrel,

I understand this. In fact I have kept and bred fish (corys, german blue rams and even my first batch of cherry shrimps a year ago that unfortunately ended up being consumed by the filter) in zero kh water with a wildly fluctuating ph. 

I have been following tropica's instructions as per the app as well as green aquas suggestions to add snails and shrimp to prevent algae. I guessed if such "big" names suggest it it should be fine. Maybe their secret is RoDi water. 

I think I will keep the gh up and only add a tiny amount of kh up so that kh is not zero. 


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## dw1305 (19 Nov 2022)

Hi all, 


neofy705 said:


> I have been following tropica's instructions as per the app as well as green aquas suggestions to add snails and shrimp to prevent algae.


I'm a massive fan of "tank janitors". At the moment I have <"_Asellus_">_, <"__Crangonyx_"> and <"soft water tolerant snails">.  If I had harder water <"I'd add Cherry Shrimps"> back in .

This is <"about how big"> and pale my Ramshorn Snails (_Planorbella duryi_) get, before shell attrition gets them.







cheers Darrel


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## MichaelJ (21 Nov 2022)

dw1305 said:


> This is <"about how big"> and pale my Ramshorn Snails (_Planorbella duryi_) get, before shell attrition gets them.


Yes. One of my tanks that I run at ~3 GH (<1 KH), and only keep soft water fish (and Ramshorn snails),  I definitely see this phenomenon (shell deterioration).


dw1305 said:


> The simple answer would be to stop keeping Cherry Shrimps and hard water snails. Personally that is what I'd do, it just cuts out a lot of mucking about.



I agree - especially to keep things simple and not on the bounds of what may or may not work.... My shrimp tank runs at ~5.5 GH (<1 KH) with no signs of shell deterioration... Now, in this tank I also feed the shrimps mineral sticks that the snails get their fair share of. I suspect (and often read this) that even with a lower GH both the shrimps and snails would thrive as long as they have readily access to food sources containing plenty of Calcium especially.  However, I feel safer just keeping the water moderately soft and supplement with minerals as opposed to just relying on minerals in the water.

I also suspect the role of pH might be of lesser importance as long as the water is not _very_ acidic (<5.0 pH). There are plenty of testimonials from people keeping dwarf shrimps (Neocaridina in particular)  in waters that routinely gets down to the lower 5 pH range (especially injected tanks).  That said, the conditions the shrimps was bred under plays an important role as well in terms of the ranges they can adapt to.

Cheers,
Michael


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## dw1305 (21 Nov 2022)

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> I suspect (and often read this) that even with a lower GH both the shrimps and snails would thrive as long as they have readily access to food sources containing plenty of Calcium especially. However, I feel safer just keeping the water moderately soft and supplement with minerals as opposed to just relying on minerals in the water.


Diet definitely makes a difference, but if the pH regularly dips below pH7 <"shell attrition is inevitable">.

I just keep away from snails from hard water.

cheers Darrel


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## neofy705 (28 Nov 2022)

Just an update. 

No more loses since I started this thread. 
I have my first berried shrimp... and it's actually a crystal red shrimp! (Also 2 berried amanos but they don't count)

I'm expecting some low grade juvenile cherry shrimps. 

As for the water changes I'm doing 30% matching tds kh and gh and I bought a water pump which I can adjust to flow. I refill the tank over 2h. 

 


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## neofy705 (1 Dec 2022)

Whoever is struggling with the same problem it seems that 30% water changes with aged water with the same kh gh and tds added slowly seemed to work for me. 
No more losses, amanos berried, crystals berried and cherries berried. Unsure on the survival of the shrimplets but so far it's looking good  


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## Blacksheep1 (4 Dec 2022)

I’m really glad you’ve solved the issue for your shrimp ! I just wanted to add be careful with bacter ae, if you dose at what it tells you on the tub it’s massively over dosed in my opinion. 

I dose a 1/4 of what it recommends and it’s still more than enough. I only dose when setting up a shrimp tank or I know I’m about to have new shrimplets to up the biofilm. I’m not saying this was your issue but just a side note for thought 😊


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## neofy705 (9 Dec 2022)

Blacksheep1 said:


> I’m really glad you’ve solved the issue for your shrimp ! I just wanted to add be careful with bacter ae, if you dose at what it tells you on the tub it’s massively over dosed in my opinion.
> 
> I dose a 1/4 of what it recommends and it’s still more than enough. I only dose when setting up a shrimp tank or I know I’m about to have new shrimplets to up the biofilm. I’m not saying this was your issue but just a side note for thought



Thank you. Yes I figured. The tank is quite big for shrimps and the feeding dish doesn't really help as the cories have been conditioned to go there and eat. 

So what I do is add a bit of bacter ae like a tiny spoon once a week directly on the diftwood. Shrimp dinner broken into smaller pieces scattered all around and cory cat food in the feeding dish. 


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