# Just wondering...



## LondonDragon (26 Mar 2008)

... if it would be best to go all dry ferts and not use an liquids.
At the moment I use the following:

Dry:
KN03 (Potassium Nitrate) 1.4gm 3x a week
KH2P04 (Mono Potassium Phosphate) 0.3gm 3x a week
K2S04 (Potassium Sulfate) 0.4gm 3x a week

Liquid:
Tropica Plant Nutrition - 5ml 3x a week
Kent Botanica Fe - 10 drops 3x a week

50% weekly water change

Could I replace the liquids with a dry trace mix? 

Many thanks


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2008)

The trace mix on AE's website has the following in it:

Boron 1.06%
Copper 0.23%
Iron 8.2%
Manganese 1.82%
Molybdenum 0.15%
Zinc 1.16%

Fe is Iron right? (Been a while since I looked at a table of elements!)


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## LondonDragon (26 Mar 2008)

DevUK said:
			
		

> Fe is Iron right? (Been a while since I looked at a table of elements!)


Yes its Iron, so I could just buy that and stop using the TPN and Fe liquid and will have the same effects?


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## Themuleous (26 Mar 2008)

It should do, I use the AE trace and have not complaints about it.  Its loads cheaper too, loads.

Sam


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## LondonDragon (26 Mar 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> It should do, I use the AE trace and have not complaints about it.  Its loads cheaper too, loads.
> Sam


Yes thats the main reason I want to move over to dry, price wise there is no comparisson.
I like to keep Amano shrimp and Red Cherry shrimp, is the copper on this going to be a problem?

Thanks for the help guys


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2008)

Should do.  TPN is basically your trace mix.  Dosing the AE dry powder should be a perfectly good replacement.


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## ceg4048 (26 Mar 2008)

Hi Dragon,
                 The Potassium Sulfate is completely unnecessary if you are already dosing Potassium Nitrate. There is more value in possibly dosing Magnesium via MgSO4 (Epsom Salts). This depends on your tap water though. I now recommend MgSO4 as standard practice for dosing because JamesC showed how even hard tap water could be low in this essential trace nutrient. The AE trace mix does not have Mg but the Tropica TPN does. This is one advantage of the TPN but I think powdered traces still works out cheaper especially if you ditch the K2SO4. Check Epsom Salts prices at Boots, Tesco or Garden Direct.

Cheers,


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## Steve Smith (26 Mar 2008)

Out of interest, is there a test kit (sorry, dirty words ) for testing the Mg in your tap water?  I live in a hard water area, and I don't dose Mg as I didn't really think I needed too (not based on any scientific knowledge of course).  With my new regime we were discussing the other day, do I need to be dosing Mg?

I take it Epsom salts are a direct replacement for the MgS04 on AE's website?

Thanks 

Steve.

Edit:  Just looked it up on the Boot's website, to quote: "Active Ingredient: Magnesium Sulphate Ph Eur 100%"

Guess that answers the question... and boy is it cheaper than AE!  500g for Â£1.49 at Boots compared to Â£7.99 at AE.


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## Themuleous (26 Mar 2008)

The AE trace is perfectly safe with shrimp 

Sam


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## JamesC (26 Mar 2008)

DevUK said:
			
		

> Out of interest, is there a test kit (sorry, dirty words ) for testing the Mg in your tap water?


There aren't to my knowledge any easily available Mg test kits but there are test kits for GH and calcium. As GH is made up of Mg and Ca you can calculate the Mg if the GH and Ca values are known. More info in this topic - http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=526

James


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## LondonDragon (27 Mar 2008)

Thanks for all the helps guys  

I just placed an order for the Trace Mix from AE and going to Boots today to buy the salts.
Which amount would you recommend dosing for a 125l tank?

Guess I will also ditch the K2SO4, might keep it going until it runs out.


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## ceg4048 (27 Mar 2008)

See this article for dosing instructions if you want to use EI. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1211

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (28 Mar 2008)

Thanks Ceg, just been looking at the article and I have come up with the following dosage for my tank.
Just want to make sure that it is reasonable accurate or if I need more or less of one or the other.

Macro:
KNO3 1/4 tsp (1.2 grams)
KH2P04 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams)
MgS04 1/2 tsp (2.3 grams)

Micro:
Trace 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams)
K2S04 1/16 tsp (0.3 grams) (optional)

each dosed 3 times a week and alternate days for macro and micro.
with a 50% water change and dose macro after water change.

Does this sound reasonable?

Tried to purchase the Epson Salts at 3 boots stores and all sold out including online


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## ceg4048 (29 Mar 2008)

Hi Dragon,
                Yes the numbers look more or less in the ballpark except I would probably double the trace. If 3 different Boots are nil stock on Epsom Salts that means either there are a lot of planted tank enthusiasts ...or a lot of people with tired feet.   Try the pharmacy at Tesco or someplace like that. 

Once again, remember that this is all an estimate and you may find that you need more or that you can get away with less depending on factors such as what nutrients are present in your tap, the robustness of your filter output, fish stocking levels, feeding practices and plant biomass. There is no need, other than economics to worry about having more than you need, but watch carefully for signs of deficiency of the two critical macros N and P. If you start to see BGA then immediately double the KNO3. If you start to see GSA then immediately double the KH2PO4.

As stated in the article, inferior CO2 will cause problems so you want to ensure that this is not a weak link.

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (29 Mar 2008)

I have half a bottle of TPN+ which I am using until I get my pressurised CO2, when that arrives I will switch to complete dry ferts.
Do I need to mix them with water? in the past I just drop the dry ferts inside the Juwel internal filter, or is that not a good thing to do? Seems to have worked.

Again many thanks for your compreensive answers, its been really helpfull


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## ceg4048 (29 Mar 2008)

Hi,
    Glad you find the info useful.   I open my canopy and sprinkle the powders directly on the water's surface. I wouldn't even bother to go through the trouble of finding a "special area" in the tank in which to dump them such as the internal filter, but yes, it's all the same. Whatever is easiest for you...   

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (29 Mar 2008)

I will keep dumping them in the internal filter then, what I was thinking is as they disolve they great spread with the water straight away, but probably makes no diference.

Tried a couple of Boots stores this morning and again sold out! Whats going on?? lol

Is this the same thing? 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/500g-100-Pure-Eps ... dZViewItem

Thanks


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## ceg4048 (29 Mar 2008)

Hi,
    Yes the MgSO4 is the same as that shown on your link. That's a good price for 1/2 kilo. You can also get it here for not quite as cheap (as well as KNO3 and KH2PO4) at Garden Direct. http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/magnesium-sulphate-p-894

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (19 Apr 2008)

Started dosing complete dry ferts for just over a week, and I am getting some problems now.
Some of the leaves are getting tiny holes in them, mainly older leaves and also I am now getting some tiny hair algae on slow growing plants and on my glosso. Any ideas?


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