# 90cm/150litre - "Patience"



## Steve Smith (10 Mar 2009)

Following on from feedback and comments in my previous post, I think I've got the rock positioning nailed and I'm not going to touch it now!  As such, I'm starting this as a journal 

So, here's the hardscape:







*Planting:*

Hemianthus callitrichoides "Cuba"
Pogostemon helferi
Eleocharis acicularis
Blyxa Japonica
Staurogyne Sp.

In the short term, to up the biomass I'm going to plant Rotala SP "Green" as I have loads of this at the moment.  I'll remove this eventually.

*Tech Specs:*

Dimensions - 90x35x45cm (ish)
Substrate - 18L ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia + Unipac Zambezi sand (padding)
Filtration - 2x Tetratec EX1200
Light - Arcadia 4x24w T5 Luminaire
CO2 - 5kg Fire extinquisher with solenoid.  Glass diffuser(s).
Heater - Hydor ETH300 external

I'm waiting on my plants being delivered from TGM (some things out of stock), and they should be with me for Thursday!


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## aaronnorth (10 Mar 2009)

that looks quality mate.


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## Tony Swinney (10 Mar 2009)

Great name Steve - I was going to post on the other thread this morning, that I was impressed how long you'd kept the water out of the tank to get the hardscape right   

Look forward to seeing your patience rewarded.

Tony


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## John Starkey (10 Mar 2009)

Hi Steve,i think the name is very suitable because you have shown great patience indeed,good luck with it and i hope any algae issues are minimal,regards john.


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## George Farmer (10 Mar 2009)

Should be a crackin' journal, Steve.  I look forward to following it.

To assist an algae-free start I can recommend running 2 tubes for 6 hours, with 50% water changes at least 2x per week.  More if you can.

What fertilisers will you be using?


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## Steve Smith (10 Mar 2009)

Thanks guys   I was looking for some cool japanese name to give this, and as I was hunting around for something to combine with the japanese word for "rock" ("Iwa" according to me googling), and was heading towards "Patient Rock".  But then I thought "You know what, lets stick with English" 



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Should be a crackin' journal, Steve.  I look forward to following it.
> 
> To assist an algae-free start I can recommend running 2 tubes for 6 hours, with 50% water changes at least 2x per week.  More if you can.
> 
> What fertilisers will you be using?



I most definately intend to stick to 2 tubes, and 6 hour photo period for the first few weeks at least.  I'm highly doubtful I'll get away algae free but I'm really trying to give this a good crack of the whip.  I'm usually quite slack when it comes to rigorous maintenance but this tank will be different   (feel free to mock me in 2 months time when everything's gone belly up )

At the moment I'm unsure on the ferts.  I'm thinking DIY TPN+.  I mixed up a batch of mix no. 3 from JamesC's guide.  I guess I'll tweak it as I go along though   An all in one solution is ideal really.

My next task, after planting/filling etc is to figure out my water changes.  I was going to buy a cheap submersable pump, like LondonDragon's guide in the DIY section, but then I realised I could just use one of the Fluval 204's I have kicking about, and some hose pipe.  I'll get to that next week 

As always, comments/suggestions welcome.

Onwards!


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## Simon D (10 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Thanks guys   I was looking for some cool japanese name to give this, and as I was hunting around for something to combine with the japanese word for "rock" ("Iwa" according to me googling), and was heading towards "Patient Rock".  But then I thought "You know what, lets stick with English"



Glad you stuck with the English, imagine if you only managed to translate one half and ended up with "Patientiwa" would't have worked for me!  

Looks like an excellent start, really interested to see the progress on this one.


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## LondonDragon (10 Mar 2009)

Great rock placement mate, in comparisson to your first attempt this is AWSOME!!! looking forward to seeing it planted and watching it develop into a great tank  

Good job and keep us posted


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## Dan Crawford (11 Mar 2009)

Thats top draw hardscaping mate and your planting sounds perfect! I WILL see this little bad boy in the flesh!


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## Steve Smith (12 Mar 2009)

Thanks guys 






My bag of HC seems to have a load of green fly in it   Still, they won't last long underwater


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## Steve Smith (12 Mar 2009)

Looking forwards to my day off tomorrow!  Mind, not looking forwards to planting all this HC!  Hopefully I've got enough, but I have a feeling I haven't!


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## Egmel (12 Mar 2009)

Looking good, shall be interested to see this progress.


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## StevenA (12 Mar 2009)

Love the rocks Steve, looking forward to seeing this planted up  8)


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## Dan Crawford (12 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Looking forwards to my day off tomorrow!  Mind, not looking forwards to planting all this HC!  Hopefully I've got enough, but I have a feeling I haven't!


I've got some going spare and i could pop in tomorrow evening????


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## Steve Smith (12 Mar 2009)

Awesome mate   If you can put up with my messy flat 

I'll hopefully have it planted by tomorrow eve, but you can cast your eye over my little secret project if you like


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## Themuleous (12 Mar 2009)

Great scaping, should look quality.

Sam


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## Steve Smith (14 Mar 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Great scaping, should look quality.
> 
> Sam



Thanks sam 

Had Mr Crawford pop in yesterday eve and drop off a couple more pots of HC which was very kind   I'm starting to thin I might not need them though!  I'm just taking a break from splitting the 3rd of 4 pots I bought from TGM.  I've done half the tank with 2 pots so far (stem by bloody stem!)

Dan really liked it in the flesh, which is a serious stamp of approval in my books   I think I also impressed him with my Rio 180 plant holding tank, with the CO2 cranked way up, and almost enough ciruclation for a jacuzzi (no fish in the tank of course). 

If the two pots of HC Dan gave me aren't needed, they'll go in the sale/swap section for a reasonable donation, unless he wants them back of course   

I'll post pics later/tomorrow when I've got it planted up and got my filters and equipment in place, and when the water is less cloudy (though not too bad at the moment).

My next quest, after planting, is to decide on some apropriate fish!  I would of used my existing fish - a group of 7 mixed harlequins (from different shops so some are possibly hengal's, some are another form) and 8 pentazona barbs.  I'd really like to get this right so they'll go into the Rio 180 when I've finished using it to store plants, and it'll be a low light crypty jungle with redmoor and all sorts   Should suit the barbs as I think this tank would be too open for them.

Annnyway, I'm rambling now   Heres a list of fish which I've seen and liked.  I'm searching through places like TropicalFishFinder and choosing fish that I think look good, and don't grow too big.  This does not gaurantee suitability and I'll research the species I like best before buying any fish!

_Rasbora dorsiocellata
Hemigrammus vorderwinkleri (Platinum Tetra) 
Hyphessobrycon haraldschultzi (Schultz's Signal Tetra)
Nannostomus beckfordi (Golden Pencilfish)
Nematobrycon palmeri (Emperor Tetra)_

As you can see, I'm going the rasbora/tetra route.  Any other suggestions welcome, but must be a good small/medium (less than 6cm) shoaling fish which isn't impossible to source


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## Thomas McMillan (14 Mar 2009)

Can't wait to see the photos!

I'm a bit bias but how about Ember Tetras?


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## Steve Smith (14 Mar 2009)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I'm a bit bias but how about Ember Tetras?



I thought about embers, but I'm trying to avoid the usuals - cardinals, embers, rummy nose etc   they might make a good fall back strategy though


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## Ed Seeley (14 Mar 2009)

If you're contemplating pencils then I'd look at the Rocket Pencils (_Nannostomus eques_).  I have 13 in my Rio and they are amazing things that hover in the open water at 45 degree angles.  In an Iwagumi they'd look amazing IMHO.  I'll try and take some pictures later and update my journal to show them off.


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> If you're contemplating pencils then I'd look at the Rocket Pencils (_Nannostomus eques_).  I have 13 in my Rio and they are amazing things that hover in the open water at 45 degree angles.  In an Iwagumi they'd look amazing IMHO.  I'll try and take some pictures later and update my journal to show them off.



Sounds good Ed.  Would be interested to see them.  Looking online, they look interesting!


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## Mark Evans (15 Mar 2009)

wheres the pics steve?...we wana see it


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

Ok.  Finally finished planting about 2 hours ago.  Been fidling with my photo eediting software on an old laptop, so the following pics might not look so hot!  Looong post alert 

Anyhow, the essentials (UKAPS branded of course!):






I got the HC and P. Helferi planted first.  The HC is planted stem-by-stem mostly, with some larger clumps here and there.  I think I developed my own style - break it into individual stem groups, similar to how you do with moss (only shorter):





If breaking HC down into individual stems wasn't bad enough, untangling a mass of E. Acicularis continued to test my patience (such an apt name for the scape )  The first of 3 trays worth:





You can just make out the E. Acicularis in the back ground.  Just Staurogyne and Blyxa to go...





Staurogyne I pilfered from my little shrimp tank.  Just about enough:





And then I was done.  I started Friday evening, dissassembling HC and then planting it, a tray at a time.  Not sure how many trays loads I got through, but I think about 6 or 8 (about 2 or 3 trays per pot of HC).  I used 3 pots of HC in the end!  Still fot 3 left   The one thing I wish I had is another 4 or 5 stems of is Blyxa, but hopefully it will fill out, the small gap in the corner is below where I plant to have one or two of my filter inlets.

And so to the fully planted shots:

Top angle:





Right side looking left (kinda how I see it sitting on my sofa):





And the full frontal:





Whew.  Long post   Now I have to get the equipment all hooked up!


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## Mark Evans (15 Mar 2009)

looks brilliant steve.


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

Thanks mate!

I just need to switch the lights off and leave it now.  Start the short photo period and all.  About to start messing with filters etc!

Not my favourite part


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## billy boy (15 Mar 2009)

Looking really sweet    I bet you cant wait to see it growing in.


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## George Farmer (15 Mar 2009)

Really nice, Steve.  I can imagine it in a couple of months looking pretty special.

Good job on the HC.  It will be interesting to note any difference in growth, single stems vs. clumps.  I'm a single stem guy myself and took 6 hours to plant a 60x30cm footprint, so I can empathise why you did some clumps...

One tip with the HC is that it may grow vertically at first, especially the single stems.  Let them establish a root structure, then trim them back, re-planting the cuttings if required.  It should then carpet pretty quickly.


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## JamesM (15 Mar 2009)

Looks great, Steve 

Don't tell me that E. Acicularis is the same stuff you had last year? That was by far the best E. Acicularis I've ever had 8)


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## Vito (15 Mar 2009)

Great start so far mate, I love the layout and the plant selection, I personally don't have the patince to do the stem by stem planting on the HC, fair play. Ill look forward do the growth.

All the best!
Vito


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Really nice, Steve.  I can imagine it in a couple of months looking pretty special.



Thanks George.  I had one last flick through the ADA catalogues last night for inspiration before commiting to planting the E. acicularis.  I'm looking forwards to a few months down the line too.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Good job on the HC.  It will be interesting to note any difference in growth, single stems vs. clumps.  I'm a single stem guy myself and took 6 hours to plant a 60x30cm footprint, so I can empathise why you did some clumps...
> 
> One tip with the HC is that it may grow vertically at first, especially the single stems.  Let them establish a root structure, then trim them back, re-planting the cuttings if required.  It should then carpet pretty quickly.



I've not heard that before, so thanks for that 



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Looks great, Steve
> 
> Don't tell me that E. Acicularis is the same stuff you had last year? That was by far the best E. Acicularis I've ever had 8)



Yeah, it's from the same 10cm x 10cm tub I bought last year sometime.  Sadly the stuff I had in the shrimp tank previously died off when I let the moss over run the tank.  This stuff has been sitting in a tub in the back garden since then.  I was going to use it last year but a freak accident meant I thought it was a gonner.  Basically an almost empty bottle of washing up liquid blew out of the upstairs flat kitchen window and landed in the tub.  I didn't notice for several days.  By the time I did it was looking pretty sorry for itself (and bubble ).  I gave it a good rinse and left it in the garden again and forgot about it.

Thankfully it made a come back!  Still got a little bit left


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## JamesM (15 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Yeah, it's from the same 10cm x 10cm tub I bought last year sometime.  Sadly the stuff I had in the shrimp tank previously died off when I let the moss over run the tank.  This stuff has been sitting in a tub in the back garden since then.  I was going to use it last year but a freak accident meant I thought it was a gonner.  Basically an almost empty bottle of washing up liquid blew out of the upstairs flat kitchen window and landed in the tub.  I didn't notice for several days.  By the time I did it was looking pretty sorry for itself (and bubble ).  I gave it a good rinse and left it in the garden again and forgot about it.
> 
> Thankfully it made a come back!  Still got a little bit left


That's nuts!  

iDunno what effect washing up liquid has on aquatic plants, but house plants love the stuff  

Can't believe its lasted so long outside


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

All through the winter!  The tub had a healthy coating of ice many times!


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## Steve Smith (15 Mar 2009)

Got the filters installed, I'm going to have to play with flow direction in the next few days.

I'm planning to do water changes on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday for the next few weeks.  Lighting is set 12pm - 6pm which should give me maybe 30 mins of viewing time after work.  I'm hoping that when I extend the lighting time it'll be more of a suprise seeing how the scape has progressed 

The next problem is going to be CO2.  I need to transplant it from my plant holding tank.  I really need a second fire extinguisher, or to get one refilled.  Oh well...  Good thing I have lots of Easy Carbo


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## Garuf (15 Mar 2009)

I'd set it 6pm till 12. That way you have more time to observe and catch any problems that may have occurred.


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## jay (15 Mar 2009)

Looking nice, good plating.

Now we play the waiting game.


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## Dan Crawford (16 Mar 2009)

I popped in to Steve's on Friday to drop off some HC and got right in the way of him planting LOL

I've gotta say, the hardscape looks even better in the flesh and with that planting it should look sweet! Nice one Steve.


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## Tony Swinney (16 Mar 2009)

Well done on all that planting Steve - bet there were some aches the next day !

Looking good.

Tony


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## Steve Smith (16 Mar 2009)

Yeah, my back aches at the moment     All that twisting one way then the other while planting...


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## Joecoral (16 Mar 2009)

I likes that I does, should look great once it's all grown in too


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## Superman (16 Mar 2009)

Looks good steve, look forward to seeing this grow in.
I'm sure the carpet will look ace squared.


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## Steve Smith (18 Mar 2009)

Did a 70% water change last night with a bucket   Mind, I syphoned using some 16/22mm hose instead of my usual syphon thing with the squeezy end that gets the syphon action going...  Much quicker to fill a bucket 

I have 10 metres of silicone hose on it's way to me at the moment.  I plan to use an old Fluval 204 to pump water out for water changes in future!

I also just seeded one of the EX1200's with media and sponges from a "live" EX1200 on another tank.  I was going to do the other one too, but it was such a hassle doing one I figured I'd do it another day!  It was 12.30am after all!

Whilst seeding the filter I "smooshed" the two bags of activated carbon in the filter... Unfortunately that means the water has gone a little cloudy now   Thankfully it didn't look too bad.  Hopefully when I get home tonight it'll be totally clear again 

I also destroyed another little tank whilst trying to do a water change.  The ADA AS just mixed with the ADA forest sand and everything went cloudy.  I got fed up then and left it (new setup, nothing alive in it!)  I'll tackle that tonight I guess.  Good excuse to re-think it again!


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## StevenA (18 Mar 2009)

Sounds like one of those days Steve, everyone get's 'em from time to time   Hope it's all ok when you get home


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## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

Well, Dan's (TDI-Line) blyxa arrived yesterday in great shape so naturally I had to rip out all of the blyxa I already had and re-plant 







And from the front:






I'm thinking I need to re-plant a little more, and spread it out a little, and I think I need to bring it left a bit more, to about where the CO2 diffuser is at the moment.

Interestingly I've been playing with flow to get good CO2 distribution.  I have 2 diffusers running at the moment, in a temporary configuration.  As it stands I have one EX1200 outlet flowing from left rear to right rear and the other EX1200 outlet sort of right middle flowing to left front corner (slight angle).  This seems to catch most of the Co2 and send it in a loop around the tank, and I can see CO2 bubbles floating about near substrate level.  Most plants show a little movement which is good 

My eventual plan is to keep the inlets where they are, more or less, and have the two outlets on the right side wall flowing straight down the tank length ways.  I also want to aquire 2x 17mm glassware sets 

Annnyway.  Everything growing as it should do will do for me at the moment!


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## Dan Crawford (19 Mar 2009)

That looks awesome mate, it looks like it'll be a real stunner.


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## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> That looks awesome mate, it looks like it'll be a real stunner.



Thanks mate   Appreciate the encouragement!

Any suggestions/constructive criticism always welcome guys!  I need to learn somehow


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## Thomas McMillan (19 Mar 2009)

It looks great! I can't wait to see this one grown in.

I think the Blyxa would look better if you kept it where it is now... I don't really know how to explain what I mean but I think it would be distracting if you put it where the diffuser is now.


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## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

I'm really warming up to Ember tetras at the moment.  Getting the right number is going to be difficult, but I'm thinking a shoal of 30 perhaps?


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## vauxhallmark (19 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I'm really warming up to Ember tetras at the moment.  Getting the right number is going to be difficult, but I'm thinking a shoal of 30 perhaps?



Maybe. With a 90cm tank to play with you could look at getting 60/90/100 though....? They're tiny fish! 

Mark


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## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

Seriously?

I know they're approx 2cm max length... 

hmn... 

90 embers...


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## Thomas McMillan (19 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I'm really warming up to Ember tetras at the moment.  Getting the right number is going to be difficult, but I'm thinking a shoal of 30 perhaps?



30 is the minimum I'd say. I have 10 in a 30cm and that's about right. You could look at gettina few more, though - say 40 or so.

Nice fish choice though


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## vauxhallmark (19 Mar 2009)

Length is tiny, but that makes all the other dimensions tiny too, so they're tiny cubed! 

Imagine 90 of the little blighters in a net - probably as much biomass as two 10cm goldfish. (I'm just guessing, but you can see roughly what I mean). Stocking guidelines of cm fish to litres of water are just a starting point, really to help beginners - but you can''t compare, say, 12 x 1" neons with a 1 x 12" oscar!

Have you ever seen a 3 or four foot tank with a massive shoal of one tiny fish in it? Aquatic design centre had a 4' tank in the basement the other day, planted (looked really good, bit messy now, I think they nick plants from it to sell) and they had at least 100 green neons in it - I was hypnotised!

You've got a great sized tank anyway, looking forward to seeing it progress!

Mark


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## Steve Smith (19 Mar 2009)

Thanks Mark.

It wasn't so much the inch per gallon/cm per litre thing, more that I can't visualise what 30 or 60 would look like in my tank.  To me the tank doesn't look that massive, so I wouldn't want it to look too crowded   That's why I sound a little unsure 

Anyhow, I've been chatting to a friend on TFF that works at an MA in Northants, and she's going to be sorting me out   (she's also just managed to tempt me with some micro rasbora - coffee beans and mosquito rasbora!  Apparently no one's buying them at the moment   These are for different tanks though  )


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## a1Matt (20 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> (she's also just managed to tempt me with some micro rasbora - coffee beans and mosquito rasbora!  Apparently no one's buying them at the moment   These are for different tanks though  )



I am tempted to buy a shoal of these for my tank at some point.  Seems weird to me that no one is buying them! Each to there own I suppose.


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## John Starkey (20 Mar 2009)

Hi Steve,

awesome mate really awesome,i love the planting when it fills out its going to an absolute stunner,Dan (tdi line) sent me some blyxa and the quality was awsome,well done steve,regards john.


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## JamesM (20 Mar 2009)

Looks great, Steve. 

Any reason for not using the EX1200's spraybars? 

And how are you splitting the co2? A second needle valve?


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## George Farmer (20 Mar 2009)

Super job, Steve.  I bet you're really excited about seeing this one grow in?

With your photoshop skills I bet you could add some fish to get an idea...


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## Steve Smith (20 Mar 2009)

Thanks for all the encouragement guys!  It's the constructive criticisms and the encouragement that really spur you on to try to get it right, but also to learn! 



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Looks great, Steve.
> 
> Any reason for not using the EX1200's spraybars?
> 
> And how are you splitting the co2? A second needle valve?



Ideally I want lily pipes   Also I wanted to play about with the flow.  I've split the CO2 using a Y connector from AquaEssentials.  I've not done it in a temporary way really.  I do have two needle valves I could of used, but it's only temporary.

Good thinking about photoshop George, I'll try to have a play over the weekend, mothers day permitting.

Just a little update too.  I've just done a second water change.  I'm noticing some patches of HC are dying back, and I assume (hope!) it's because it's emmersed growth transforming into submersed.  I've noticed some detritus build up on the e. acicularis.  A bit of a swoosh over with my tweezers sorts that out.  I'm assuming it's from the HC die off.  Also a little P. helferi die back, but I think the plants weren't in the best of condition from storage for 2 weeks (came from Ice in good condition!)

Anyhow, during the water change I decided t tinker with the Blyxa and I think I did good   Basically I've just moved some of the shorter plants further forward on the right edge and spaced some of the plants out.  It looks a little less compact and just generally sits better on the eye 

I'll post some pics tomorrow hopefully!

Thanks again for the encouragement guys


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## Steve Smith (21 Mar 2009)

Quick pic I took last night, showing the tweaked blyxa:


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## Mark Evans (21 Mar 2009)

i saw this on another forum.

i looks ace steve. proper ADA


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## Steve Smith (21 Mar 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> i saw this on another forum.
> 
> i looks ace steve. proper ADA



Thanks mate!  Yeah, I've posted it on the usual places, but UKAPS always gets the first update


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## Tony Swinney (21 Mar 2009)

Its gonna be a beaut Steve !

Tony


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## LondonDragon (22 Mar 2009)

Tank is looking awsome, one of the best I have seen!!! Another UKAPS masterpiece, congrats mate.
Looking forward to seeing that carpet filled in


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## Steve Smith (24 Mar 2009)

After a PM conversation with Dan, I'm swaying toward Ruby tetra now...  Just checking to see if my friend can get them in   I'm still thinking 30 to start with.

Out of interest, what are people's opinions on when to stock the tank, bearing in mind the AS/amonia issue?  I've done 2 large 75% water changes so far, and will continue to do so (next one tonight).  I've not tested the water yet, but I will tonight.  Should I stagger the stocking too?  say, 15 at a time?  Problem with that is transportation to the Harelstone MA in Northamton on more than one occasion might be an issue.


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## George Farmer (24 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Out of interest, what are people's opinions on when to stock the tank, bearing in mind the AS/amonia issue?


I always test for ammonia and nitrite before adding any livestock to a new Aqua Soil set-up.  I only add livestock when they are undetecable levels, usually after 2-3 weeks.  

After this period I usually add the entire stock, but I usually 'understock' and 'overfilter' considerably anyway.  There should be plenty of nitrifying bacteria in the filter and substrate already, due to the Aqua Soil and plant growth.

I hope that helps, Steve.

I'm still amazed by the rocks, by the way.  One of the best potential Iwagumis I've seen in the UK so far....  No pressure.


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## Dan Crawford (24 Mar 2009)

Hi mate, i'm glad you've chosen them, they are stunning fish and will suite your scape down to the ground, or substrate LOL
Are you going to be ordering them in especially? If so then i should imagine that the store will be ha[[y to keep 15 back for you for a week or so, after all, it's in the best interest of the fish....
Youve got a big filter on there and mature media, if it clears up the ammonia in a week then i'd say it can cope with the extra bioload of all 30 fish, they really are small.
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Species ... p?id=26439
Please excuse the state of the tank, it wasn't a good time


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## Steve Smith (24 Mar 2009)

Ok, that's good to know   I would naturally test and make sure before adding any livestock.  2 ex1200's should be over filtering enough too   I have seeded one of them, I might do the other when I get a chance (bit tight for space in the cabinet at the moment!)



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'm still amazed by the rocks, by the way.  One of the best potential Iwagumis I've seen in the UK so far....  No pressure.



You're too kind   

The "peak" rock still troubles me.  It just seems a little too under stated.  I'm not going to touch it though.  Just let it grow in (hopefully).  Disturbingly, I've noticed a lot of the HC flapping about in the flow, suggesting some die off.  I just have this feeling I'm going to get home one night to half the HC floating about     I'm hopeful that it's still emmersed growth dieing off and all will be good... Where's the "pray" smiley?! 



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Hi mate, i'm glad you've chosen them, they are stunning fish and will suite your scape down to the ground, or substrate LOL
> Are you going to be ordering them in especially? If so then i should imagine that the store will be ha[[y to keep 15 back for you for a week or so, after all, it's in the best interest of the fish....
> Youve got a big filter on there and mature media, if it clears up the ammonia in a week then i'd say it can cope with the extra bioload of all 30 fish, they really are small.



Thanks for pointing them out to me mate!  I'll have a chat with my MA friend and see what she can do for me 

Oh, on the glassware front, I've been looking for cheap and cheerful lily pipes.  These are the best I can find for the price (look better than some of the ones on eBay).  Bit worried about ordering from a random company though!  I'm sure I've bought from Fish-Street via eBay before though...

I'd love to get the Cal-Aqua set...  I could possibly stretch to 1 set, but 2...


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## vauxhallmark (24 Mar 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Oh, on the glassware front, I've been looking for cheap and cheerful lily pipes.  These are the best I can find for the price (look better than some of the ones on eBay).  Bit worried about ordering from a random company though!  I'm sure I've bought from Fish-Street via eBay before though...
> 
> I'd love to get the Cal-Aqua set...  I could possibly stretch to 1 set, but 2...



Hmmm, long way away! I recognise that photo with all the dimensions on - I think AquaEssentials used to sell them. If you're only concerned that they're glass and a good price then go for it, but if you've got your heart set on a particular style , or 'look', as your post seems to imply, I'd ask the store to confirm that the photos are actually of the pipes they're sending you. The pipes in the photo with the measurements don't look the same as the ones in the other pictures to me. Probably just being paranoid (was looking on ebay today at someone selling a koralia rip-off pump, and half the pictures were of the pump they were actually selling, and half were actually of a koralia pump (it wan't too hard to spot, koralia has a magnetic connection, theirs had three suckers!)).

Hope you get something you like and that works! Good luck   

Mark

EDIT: If you look at their 9mm, 13mm and 17mm pipe you'll see that they've used the same images for them all - so obviously at least two of the three sizes aren't being represented by a picture of the actual product.


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## Steve Smith (25 Mar 2009)

Hmn, that sucks.  I've found the same seller on eBay selling the same glassware, using the same photos.  I'm pretty sure I don't like the look of them now 

Popped to the LFS with a work mate today (it's great to have work mates interested in the same stuff, even if they *are* into marine - working on him to get his juwel lido planted ).  I bought an Eheim compact 2000 pump for water changes.  I don't think I've ever felt as excited as I do right now to get home and do a water change!   

My next plan is to get some 25/50 litre water containers (RO style) and use these for water changes.  I want to either pre-heat or get the water to room temp the night before a change. and use the pump to pump from the container to the tank.  Decided using the hose pipe just isn't the best way to go, specially with these big water changes at the moment.  Too much cold water.


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## Steve Smith (2 Apr 2009)

Day 17:

All is comming along, appart from the lack CO2 at the moment.  That should be sorted tomorrow hopefully thanks to Danny boy 

Got some die off on the HC.  Trimmed and re-planted some of it, but got destracted by a mate, so didn't do much.  Managed to uproot some blyxa whilst swishing about, but that means I noticed some die off on the stalks.  I've re-planted them and hopefully all will be good.

Did an amonia test tonight and it came out negative!  We're on for fish this weekend, provided I can get to Maiden Head Harelstone!

Also, a lighting upgrade is on the cards, but more on that later


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## vauxhallmark (3 Apr 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Day 17:
> 
> Did an amonia test tonight and it came out negative!



Wow - less than zero ppm! You've must have great filtration   

Mark


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## Steve Smith (3 Apr 2009)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> Wow - less than zero ppm! You've must have great filtration
> 
> Mark



2x EX1200 all the way  Only seeded one of them with sponges and ceramic media from another live EX1200 though


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## Verminator (3 Apr 2009)

Fantastic tank there. Exactly the concept i was hoping to achieve with my Rio 180 when i re-did my tank. Then i got two dempseys and so plans changed   Shall be keeping an on eye on this tank as each update comes   

I see your from Coventry too


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## Steve Smith (3 Apr 2009)

Yep, Coventrian here   

I'm plotting a Rio 180 at the moment too   Crypts/ferns/bolbitis... I had a "vision" the other night whilst reading Amano's book 1 and I can't get it out of my head now


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## Verminator (3 Apr 2009)

Indeed the planted tank is a poison that takes over. I'm yet to try my hand at an actual planted tank, preparations are in place for a 2ft first experience tank soon to come. I hope to start a journal on here when i finally do so, depending how badly or well it does   

Do you have a Rio 180 currently? or plan to get one? I bought mine 4 years back when they came with x2 30W T8's as standard. Not ideal for planted growth, i believe now they have T5HO so its all fine. One thing i'd note is that the internal filter is useless and a pain, as you have found with your existing tank. Certainly is best to remove it as you did with your current beauty of a tank.

Do you mind me asking which aquatics shops you use in and around Coventry? I'm currently getting tiresome of some the local ones and wondered if you know of any i don't perhaps. The 4 i go to are; Coventry Aquatics, A5 Aquatics, Shirley Aquatics (blooms) and Shirley Aquatics in Shirley.


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## Steve Smith (3 Apr 2009)

I've had the rio 180 for about 2 years, and I bought it second hand when I got it.  It's the old style, single cupboard with the 2x 30w T8 unit (bleurgh!)  It's done OK for me.  I rigged it up so that it had 4x 30w T8 at one point but currently it's a holding tank for plants while I get other projects sorted out.

I will be upgrading the lighting soon though.  I might be getting a couple of 125w mercury vapor pendants from Dan soon, so I think one will go over this 90cm and the other over the Rio 

As for shops, essentially Coventry Aquatics is my "local".  I don't drive (I should get around to taking lessons but it's so expensive!).  It's about a 20 min walk from mine (Earlsdon) or a 5 min cycle.   He's OK for bread and butter stuff, but as you know, he's very marine orientated.  Scored the odd cheap plant deal from him though (came home with some reasonable bunched crypts recently - 4 for Â£5).  I've been to the others with a fellow fish geek mate too, but not very often    I wouldn't go to A5 again I don't think.

We'd usually go to Maidenhead Aquatics at Harlestone Heath in Northampton.  Great fish and I know one of the folks that works there, from Tropical Fish Forums 

Otherwise, it's all online ordering or hitching lifts with other forum folks to TGM (Usually Mr Starkey, the legend that he is )  Kinda sucks but I've managed so far


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## Verminator (3 Apr 2009)

I'm pretty much in a similar boat to you then. Don't drive jsut yet, although my test is May 14th    So soon i'll be able to ferry myself around. I have bad experiences with Coventry Aquatics, they sold me none aquatics plants on two occasions when i was starting out. Really peeved me off to be quite honest. A5 i like, they're quite helpfull and thats where i bought my Electric Blue Jack Dempseys so i'm always eternally gratefull to them. Never been to Maidenhead, always heard good things though and its right up there on my to do list.

I'm thinking of upgrading my Rio 180 lights to x2 39W T5HO GLO soon. T8's are to inefficient. HC, HG, vallis i struggle with them all. Ofcourse its never jsut been down to my lights. CO2 and ferts have been lacking this last year because my lighting was so hit and miss. 

Online purchasing is certainly the way to go. I get all my stuff online usually. I get my plants shipped in from Singapore direct to my door   Don't know many people with the same pashion for aquatics in person, mainly online. So hitching lifts when others go hasnt been do-able for me   

Well i'm off to work now. But i look forward to any updates on this tank soon


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## Steve Smith (3 Apr 2009)

Verminator said:
			
		

> I'm pretty much in a similar boat to you then. Don't drive jsut yet, although my test is May 14th



Hah.. Someone else I can hitch a lift with 

I'm hoping to start some lessons with my old man soon.  I hit 30 next month.  You'd think I'd of sorted this out sooner wouldn't you


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## Verminator (3 Apr 2009)

Ok, i thought i left it late to learn to drive. Lets say the next number i hit is 20   Haha, by all means when i get road active and i'm going cruising to aquatic shops youd be more than welcome to hop along   Thats a few months off yet though. I'll be a regular on here soon enough, and i can't see myself ever going inactive. 

Getting a little off topic from your journal sorry    Not trying to hijack the thread


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## Steve Smith (5 Apr 2009)

Question about photoperiod guys.  I'm currently running half light for 6 hours.  Would it be best to go to full light for 6 hours or increase the photo period to the full 10 hours I was going to run at either half or full light?  Bearing in mind I'll be on day 21 tomorrow...


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## George Farmer (5 Apr 2009)

Unless you're having issues with slow growth, I'd stick with 6-8 hours, half light.


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## Mark Evans (5 Apr 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> I'd stick with 6-8 hours, half light.



same here. 6 hours for a few weeks yet. i'll run mine for at least 6 weeks like that, then slowly increase it.


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## Steve Smith (5 Apr 2009)

Thanks guys   I think the blyxa is suffering a little, I'm getting a lot of melt.  Other than this, and some die off on the HC (emerged growth dying off I think, new growth comming through now) every thing else seems more or less OK.  The downoi is growing slowly, with some new shoots appearing.  It's recovering just about.  HC runners are growing in parts, and newer tiny leaves are on a lot of it.  I need to ideally spend some time trimming and re-planting.

One change to the hardscape made today.  I was in the back garden earlier and found two chunks of seiryu stone I'd fogotten I had   One was a good upgrade for the peak of my "mountain".  It's larger but not overpowering I don't think...

Before (taken day 5):







After:






Apologies for the shoddy pic, taken with my iPhone...


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## samc (5 Apr 2009)

pics wont come up on mine steve


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## Steve Smith (5 Apr 2009)

Hmn, my web hosting seems to be down at the moment 

Edit:  Ah, working again now.


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## Ejack (5 Apr 2009)

Love the sunset effect you got going on with that bulb in the background Steve looks really cool.

Rock laylout looks awesome. Can't wait to see how it grows for you.

Jack


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## Themuleous (5 Apr 2009)

Very nice Steve 

Sam


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## Nelson (5 Apr 2009)

looking awesome  love the lighting
neil


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## Thomas McMillan (5 Apr 2009)

I think that rock looks much better  keep us posted Steve!


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## Steve Smith (5 Apr 2009)

Thanks guys.  I promised myself I wouldn't fiddle with the hardscape, but having found this piece I'd forgotten about, it was silly not to try it.  Glad I did


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## George Farmer (5 Apr 2009)

This is going to be awesome.  Better than mine, damn you!


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## John Starkey (5 Apr 2009)

Hi Steve,
youve come up with a real beauty this time mate,that new stone is a plus for me,

regards john.


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## Steve Smith (5 Apr 2009)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> This is going to be awesome.  Better than mine, damn you!



Wow, thanks George   You're welcome to use it for your PFK article instead   Now I'm getting big headed   



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Steve,
> youve come up with a real beauty this time mate,that new stone is a plus for me,
> 
> regards john.



Thanks John.  The rock is a slightly different colour at the moment, I gave it a bit of a scrub before using it as it's been out in the garden for a few months.  It's cleaner than the rest! 

I want to get hold of a load of amano shrimp.  I'm also going to put some of my existing fish into the tank to keep the filters going, when I get time I'll pop some guppies in or something...


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## samc (5 Apr 2009)

looks good. the staurogyne looks to have grown alot


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## JamesM (5 Apr 2009)

This is gonna be killer, Steve, well done mate


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## Steve Smith (6 Apr 2009)

Thanks guys  

I popped 4 guppies in this evening to see how they get on.  After the initial freaking out of being moved, which lasted less than a few minutes, they've now started exploring (inbetween chasing CO2 bubbles)


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## zig (7 Apr 2009)

2nd rock from the left hand side could be lowered/angled down a bit IMHO. Overall, looking good.


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## George Farmer (7 Apr 2009)

zig said:
			
		

> 2nd rock from the left hand side could be lowered/angled down a bit IMHO. Overall, looking good.


What do you know??!!


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## TDI-line (7 Apr 2009)

Looks stunning Steve, very natural and good choice of plants.


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## LondonDragon (7 Apr 2009)

Looking great Steve, looking forward to seeing the HC filled in, going to be a stunner, you even making George proud


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## Steve Smith (7 Apr 2009)

Thanks guys   

Guppies are very active this morning, telling me there isn't too much CO2 in the water!  I think I have a little too much surface movement.  Hopefully this'll be aleviated when I finally get my hands on some 17mm lily pipes!  Starting to think Fish Street is going to be my best option.  I have done some digging and I think the photos are acurate enough.  They're selling PM glass, which is PowerMen.  Searching around on other forums they all look pretty similar and get enough reasonable/good comments, considering their cost.

I was going to order some last week, but shipping was a bit pricey.  I might stump up for it in the end.  I think 2 sets and postage was going to be about Â£60 which isn't that bad really (I'm a cheap skate I guess )


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## Steve Smith (7 Apr 2009)

Well, I caved and ordered 2 sets of PM glass earlier today from Advanced Aquarium Store.  I've bought from them before, and have had ok dealings.  Now it's the waiting game...


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## Tony Swinney (8 Apr 2009)

Good call Steve - same pipes I've got for the optiwhite.  Nice price too   

Tony


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## Steve Smith (8 Apr 2009)

Yeah, Â£14.99 each with Â£28 postage.  Really heavy on the postage but I got Â£2 knocked off


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## Steve Smith (11 Apr 2009)

Just on the road, heading back from MA harlestone heath (love iPhones!). Got fish a plenty! I've gone for embers in the end, out of neccessity. Cute little blighters 

Not sure how many I've got. I asked my friend for 40 and the net kept swooping into the tank  I also bought some fish for my nano, mosquito rasbora  Again, not sure how many, should be more than 15


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## Thomas McMillan (11 Apr 2009)

Good stuff! Make sure you post some pics when you get home.


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## John Starkey (11 Apr 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Just on the road, heading back from MA harlestone heath (love iPhones!). Got fish a plenty! I've gone for embers in the end, out of neccessity. Cute little blighters
> 
> Not sure how many I've got. I asked my friend for 40 and the net kept swooping into the tank  I also bought some fish for my nano, mosquito rasbora  Again, not sure how many, should be more than 15



Hi Steve,
im gonna have to come over and see those rasboras,there my favourite fish at the moment,
nice choice steve,
regards john.


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## samc (11 Apr 2009)

look foward to seeing the pics im liking embers too, think im gonna try em soon


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## Steve Smith (12 Apr 2009)

I think there might be a few youg serpae tetra mixed in with the embers... Need to have a better look tomorrow morning though.  They're all hanging about in the hair grass and blyxa at the moment.  Hopefully the ottos will be OK.  Not that I'm bragging, but I can't really see any algae in the tank at the moment   

I'm sitting on the sofae with my laptop,   looking accross the room at the nano tank at them moment, with minimal lighting in the room, and I can see most of the mosquito rasbora floating about at the front of the tank.  I can see how they got the name, the seem to move in such a way as to look like a mosquito buzzing around 

Aaaanyway, I should get to bed   Busy easter tomorrow with family etc...


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## LondonDragon (12 Apr 2009)

What I want is photos


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## Steve Smith (12 Apr 2009)

Patience 

I'd do some now, but they're all still settling into their new surroundings.  Wouldn't want to turn the lights on and freak them out too much.  On the plus side, I have my DSLR again, so can take some better pcs hopefully...


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## Mark Evans (12 Apr 2009)

pictures damn it!


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## Steve Smith (12 Apr 2009)

Ok... Picture overload!  You have been warned   Also, doing this on my laptop, so if they're a little dark/odd, that's why...










































Still waiting for the HC to grow in more.  Definitely need to trim/replant some of it.  Any other tips?


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## samc (12 Apr 2009)

looking good! like the embers too. saintly said that with the hc in his MA tank when he upped the kno3 is did much better


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## Thomas McMillan (12 Apr 2009)

Those Embers look great in that last shot! They'll look even better when they fully colour up, great choice.


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## aaronnorth (12 Apr 2009)

cracking tank


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## Tony Swinney (13 Apr 2009)

Looking good Steve.  Once the HC carpets this will look amazing.  Whats this plant ?






Tony


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## Steve Smith (14 Apr 2009)

Thanks guys.  Tony, that plant is Staurogyne sp.


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## TDI-line (14 Apr 2009)

I really like this one Steve, but do you have the patience...


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## Steve Smith (14 Apr 2009)

Maybe I should rename it "Patience (trying my...)"


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## TBRO (15 Apr 2009)

Hi Steve, 

Got me some embers recently and they were looking great but then disaster struck, noticed a few were missing and couldn't see any on the floor so I opened up my external and found seven of the little critters. Five are fine but 2 died and one injured. Seems Fluval filter guards are not tight enough. Since then the whole shoal has gone really timid, I guess the injured fish probably gives off stress hormones or somthing. I might get some guppies like you to act as dither fish!

Love the layout T


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## Steve Smith (15 Apr 2009)

That's a shame mate   The inlets on my Tetratecs look OK, they're getting clogged with some leaves and HC that's uprooted.

When I did a water change last night they were shoaling beautifully, but seemed to be happy enough to stop shoaling so much within half an hour of finishing the water change 

I seem to have lost one of the 3 ottos though   Not seen him since the first day.  The other two look pretty happy, and are constantly nomming on the glass/substrate.  They seem to be interested in the sinking pellets I've added too, which is reassuring.


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## John Starkey (15 Apr 2009)

Hi Steve,

this going to look well cool when its all grown in,

well done mate

John.


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## Steve Smith (8 May 2009)

Having a few issues at the moment.  Ran out of CO2 twice for starters     My spare FE's didn't seem to fit my regulator either (second time this has happened )  I've been dosing EasyCarbo this week (25ml)

Got CO2 back on this morning after getting a couple more 2kg FE's.  I've moved the diffuser to inbetween the two filter inlets.  Hopefully this will be good...

Got one of my lily pipes from Hong Kong.  It seems they forgot to send the other, and it's in the post at the moment, hopefully!

Another issue is that the Blyxa has melted quite badly.  I'm starting to consider ripping out what's left and planting more E. acicularis, as I have a couple of pots spare.  Not sure at the moment.

The HC is growing pretty slowly, but it's carpeting gradually.  The left side doesn't seem to be taking too well.  I'm, wondering if it's getting enough light.  The luminaire I'm using is only 80cm, and then it's only 24w tubes which are fairly short.  Both ends are a little darker than the middle, but not a great deal.  It might be enough...  Should be plenty of flow.  I can see the HC swaying about gently in the current.

Anyhow, that's the update on day 52


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## LondonDragon (8 May 2009)

What about some photos Steve? 

I got loads of Blyxa from TDI and it also melted pretty badly, now what remains after a month are 5-6 short leaves in a few stems, I would say from what I received about 80% melted, what is left seems to be ok, but looks like short grass at the moment haha lets hope it recovers now and starts growing, at least on most now new roots have grown which is a good sign.

I just spent the last two days planting HC to cover the entire front of my tank, lets hope I don't have any issues with mine, again my tank is 80cm and the tubes like you say are a lot shorter, will see how it does, I can always up the 4x24w to 6x24 if I need too 

Keep us posted


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## Steve Smith (8 May 2009)

Cheers mate   My Blyxa is mostly from Dan too.  I'd say I have about 15/20% left.  I think it didn't like the change of water chemistry.  I have pretty hard water, though the Aqua Soil should be softening the water a bit.  I might try to persavere with it but we'll see I guess


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## Verminator (9 May 2009)

Been silently sat waiting for an update on this tank  Looking forward to when you post some more pictures of how its coming along. What substrate did you say you were using again?


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## Steve Smith (10 May 2009)

Substrate is ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia 

I got the mercury lights off of Dan yesterday, but he needs to remove all the hanging kits etc from his ceiling   Hopefully they'll be setup next weekend or the following week.

Still deciding what to do about the blyxa.  If I can source enough Acicularis I might go down that route, although something else is starting to creep into the back of my mind


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## Themuleous (10 May 2009)

Very nice Steve  are you running all 4 light tubes?

Sam


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## Steve Smith (10 May 2009)

Yes Sam, all 4 24w tubes   I'm a little concerned it's quite dark over on the left side.  I'll see how the mercury vapour lights do


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## Themuleous (11 May 2009)

Right just wondered if the problem with the HC might be too much light?  I know in my nano that leggy HC actually required me to reduce the light greatly, after which it went mental.  Worth a try if the MV doesn't do the trick 

Sam


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## flygja (13 May 2009)

I love how the Staurogyne pokes out between the rocks like that. Ace!


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## Steve Smith (3 Jun 2009)

A little update.

I'm convinced my HC isn't growing so well at the sides of the tank due to the shorter 24w tubes.  The light intensity at the sides just wasn't very good.  Last night I finally got around to installing a 125w Mercury Vapour pendant.  The light spread seems to be a lot better.  The colour temp is quite different though.  The bulb gives a yellow tinge, but it works OK.  It actually cancels out some of the orange of the wall behind the tank 

I'd also noticed the E Acicularis on the left side wasn't growing as well as the stuff that was maybe an inch higher, and in the centre.  Hopefully things will change a little now.

Talking of the hair grass, I've got some hair algae issues at the moment also, due to a lapse in maintenance on my part.  I gave the tank a clean out last night, as I had some GSA also.  I'll buck up my ideas and keep on top of it now 

Photos in the next few days.  Busy weekend ahead!


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## Mark Evans (25 Jun 2009)

any updates steve?....you must be looking pretty grown in now matey


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## Steve Smith (26 Jun 2009)

Hey Mark.  Not real updates at the moment.  I planted a load of new blyxa this weekend, and my CO2 has decided to run out!  Getting a new FE from Dan this weekend hopefully.

I trimmed the HC a little last night.  I've not trimmed it since I planted it, and I'm starting to think that's why it's not carpetting as well as I'd hoped.  Didn't manage to trim it very well, so still needs some work.


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## rawr (26 Jun 2009)

Are we allowed a photo?


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## Steve Smith (26 Jun 2009)

Sure, when I get a few mins.  Probably not until Sunday though, as I'm out most of the weekend!


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## Dan Crawford (26 Jun 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I'm convinced my HC isn't growing so well at the sides of the tank due to the shorter 24w tubes.  The light intensity at the sides just wasn't very good.


I had this problem when using a 1m wide arcadia luminaire on a 4ft tank, nothing grew too well at the edges. I've since got a 4ft OT2 on loan for my new scape, hopefully this will yield better results.
I hope those MVs work out for you.
Looking forward to a photo update.


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