# Lighting Help



## Michael Gilmore (29 Mar 2013)

Hi , I Currently have a 380 ltr , 900(w) x 660(h) x600(d) with a over hung lighting fixture 4 x 39w grolux bulbs , I am planing on changing to a DIY hood to help keep heat in etc... & improve lighting .

I am going to purchase GE Daylight bulbs 965`s i think , which would be better 8x 24w running side to side or 5 x 39w front to back , i think side to side would give more equal light

Any help would be great

Thanks Michael


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2013)

How about a diy LED system?
Less heat & pretty simple to put together if you use GU10 fittings.


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## SA_Aquatic (30 Mar 2013)

Hi
Is it a planted tank? If not, I would suggest that you use led lights. It will be cheaper in the long run


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## Michael Gilmore (30 Mar 2013)

Hi , Yes sorry its planted tank, A picture included to see plants


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2013)

I dont quite understand SA Aquatics post but you can most definitely use LEDs on a planted tank!


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## SA_Aquatic (30 Mar 2013)

If it is planted tank, then you will need high output led. It might end up very expensive for the size of your tank. 
T5 would be more ideal, but again it is a matter of opinion


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2013)

Well to start with plants do not require high light to thrive & more to the point DIY LED house hold fittings (GU10 fitting) are very sucsefull at growing plants & relatively cheap to buy.
There are numerous tanks on this forum using this type of set up.
However - yes of course T5s are great too!


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## Michael Gilmore (30 Mar 2013)

will GU10 offer the proper spectrum required ex.. 6500k or there abouts ?

how many bulbs would i need ?


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2013)

OK, as regards spectrum.. choose what looks nice for your viewing, as the plants dont worry about such things & will happily adapt to virtually any colour spectrum.
You can get three main colours in GU10 bulbs, warm white, cool white & white but there are red bulbs, green bulbs & multi colour change bulbs!!
I am not necessarily trying to convince you LEDs are the way to go .. I just wanted to point out they are an option.
As to how many you will need... the bulbs come in many different wattage's from 1w - 12w but the best way is use a dimmable system then you are covered for all events.
 As a guide I would say 10 x dimmable 9w bulbs or on a budget 10 x 6w standard bulbs, you would have to revise this suggestion though..
There is plenty of advice on the forum, here is one Help with my new led lighting | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Michael Gilmore (30 Mar 2013)

whats nearest in kelkin to 6500k to 8000k , Warm maybe in gu10 ? i have the 9w warm Cfl`s everywhere in the house and they give a nice light , as for planted tank im not sure ?


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## BIN578 (30 Mar 2013)

foxfish said:


> Well to start with plants do not require high light to thrive & more to the point DIY LED house hold fittings (GU10 fitting) are very sucsefull at growing plants & relatively cheap to buy.
> There are numerous tanks on this forum using this type of set up.
> However - yes of course T5s are great too!


 
Is this entirely true ?  I have read on here on a LOT of threads, that for certain carpeting plants you do need high light, and on a tank as tall as this I would have thought it would be important to punch enough PAR down to substrate level ?


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## foxfish (31 Mar 2013)

Have you read that on this forum? 
Plants require good CO2 & good water flow, light is required but not at hight levels.
If you choose to use high lighting then you must match the other requirements & that can put your fish in jeopardy.


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## Ian Holdich (31 Mar 2013)

BIN578 said:


> Is this entirely true ?  I have read on here on a LOT of threads, that for certain carpeting plants you do need high light, and on a tank as tall as this I would have thought it would be important to punch enough PAR down to substrate level ?



There's quite a good post somewhere by Clive, but I can't find it, I'll try and explain...light is obviously important, but not a important as flow and distribution of c02. People still believe that carpet plants need high light...this isn't true, people still believe that carpet plants grow upwards towards the light and get leggy, due to low light. This again isn't true...the upward growth is due to a hormone release from the plant. The hormone is ethylene (I'm sure that's the one), its this that doesn't get released properly and thus causes upwards growth in all plants, but is more noticeable in carpet plants.


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## foxfish (31 Mar 2013)

I think my old log scape is a good example of ground cover growing down 'away from the light' an interesting example!!


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## Willard (31 Mar 2013)

Hi
Just to offer my experince I have a 180 litre Juwel & have 2 led grobeams running on only 45% power and my plants are growing really well. In fact I think it may have been Iain who advised me to keep them low.  

By the way, Michael & Foxfish, they are cracking tanks.


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## BIN578 (31 Mar 2013)

foxfish said:


> I think my old log scape is a good example of ground cover growing down 'away from the light' an interesting example!!


Thats stunning foxfish.  I love the way thats trailing over the edge of the log.  

So what advantage does high light level have then, if any ?


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## BIN578 (31 Mar 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> There's quite a good post somewhere by Clive, but I can't find it, I'll try and explain...light is obviously important, but not a important as flow and distribution of c02. People still believe that carpet plants need high light...this isn't true, people still believe that carpet plants grow upwards towards the light and get leggy, due to low light. This again isn't true...the upward growth is due to a hormone release from the plant. The hormone is ethylene (I'm sure that's the one), its this that doesn't get released properly and thus causes upwards growth in all plants, but is more noticeable in carpet plants.


 
So does the higher level of CO2 inhibit this hormone then ?  What exactly makes a carpet plant carpet rather than grow up ?


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## Ian Holdich (31 Mar 2013)

The decent c02 and flow around the substrate ensures the plants carpet. With decent flow HC and the like can be grown without c02, I think it was walstad that grew an awesome HC carpet without c02 injection. It can be done.


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## foxfish (31 Mar 2013)

It can be done .. maybe by a dedicated expert but... any decent results I have manged to achieve have been made possible through offering 2wPG or less coupled with loads of C02 delivered in a very efficient manner.
The Log tank is a good example because it is obvious that the actually log offered a centrale axle for the circular flow pattern.
And is was because of this, that the amount of gas the plants received throughout the light up period then enabled the glosso to be so content!


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## xim (31 Mar 2013)

BIN578 said:


> So what advantage does high light level have then, if any ?


 
To get stem plants in ultimate form (dense, compact, and colorful).
If the light is barely enough, when you prune it down low, you will just get 
a haft-hearted new shoot instead of two or three where you cut it.


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## Michael Gilmore (31 Mar 2013)

I done a bit of research , i need something thats say 3" above water will gu10`s work , whats nearest in kelkin to 6500k to 8000k , Warm maybe in gu10 4000k ? would 20 x 3w be better?

I Forgot to mention i have C02 system running at 2 bubbles a second.

I dont think led tech is quite there yet from what ive read for planted tanks anyway , i stand to be corrected


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## Ian Holdich (31 Mar 2013)

Led technology is more than there for planted tanks...

Ada LEDs 

Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Green Aqua Showroom by viktorlantos, on Flickr

TMC LEDs

front left 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


image by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


60cm shallow in kitchen by George Farmer, on Flickr


iwagumi finals by George Farmer, on Flickr


Slice of nature by Ian Holdich, on Flickr


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## Michael Gilmore (31 Mar 2013)

Some lovely examples , but they need to be at a good  height to achieve decent light spread ?  ineed to keep lighting compact as tank is already 66cm high and in my sitting room so overhead not practical for me


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## Ian Holdich (31 Mar 2013)

The ones I use are about 15cm from the water, they have a lens over the led so get good spread. LEDs aren't the choice of everyone, but I have provided those pics just to show that LEDs are as good as any light.

At the end of the day, light is just light. It doesn't matter what k rating your bulb/led is, as long as you have light your plants will utilise it. This is why you won't find many on here if anyone advocating high light.


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