# 10l - Gone



## Tom (24 Aug 2010)

Thought that after quite a long time of being almost totally out of the fish world I'd start a new nano  I was tempted by one of the new AquaEl Shrimp Kits that my LFS (and tonnes of other shops!!) had got in not that long ago. The next time I visited, I got the smallest one - 10 liters. It came with a 9w light, 5w heater (unused) and a 400lph powerhead (whirlpool speeds in this tank!). I quickly decided to go for a small hang-on-back Azoo filter I had knocking about as it takes up less room and I could actually fit media in it. The build quality of the tank appears very good, with neat silicon and solid parts. Looks very smart too IMO.   

I've been asking a couple of questions recently about this tank, particularly about the fact that I used Oyster Shell gravel by accident as it wasn't labelled, and now my water may as well be solid rock - but thanks to Clive I now know that doesn't particularly! I've got some ADA Forest Sand Branco on the way from TGM that should get here sometime this week, as well as some more plants. Will swap the foreground gravel only for the ADA so as not to disturb what I have already planted.

After I ordered my plants from PlantsAlive, I realized that they were going to take over a week to arrive! On passing Pets At Home, I decided on a very nice, large and healthy Tropica pot of M. umbrosum for my background. By this time I had already sorted my rockwork too - Seiryu Stone/Mini Landscape Rocks. The same ones from my other few small layouts from aaages ago.

The plants I have ordered are 2x HC, 1x Marsilea and 1x Dwarf Hairgrass. I'm thinking I'll only use the odd tiny blade or two of the hairgrass, as all the other leaf shapes are quite similar. I've got a bit of Java Moss in there too that I poached off a friend   I'm thinking that I might also get some R. wallichii for the rear to add a bit of colour, but we'll see. I've never tried red plants before as I generally prefer all green.  

Stocking-wise, I have 25+ Cherry Shrimp that I got for Â£6!! Niiiice   

The pictures:

Before planting anything - just the rocks





After planting M. umbrosum and releasing Cherries




More to come when my plants and gravel arrive - hopefully gravel first!!

Tom


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## John Starkey (24 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Hi Tom,looks a nice start mate,the main rock looks very big and precariously balanced so i hope you have it secure,dont want any split tanks   ,
regards,
john.


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## Tom (24 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Superglue my friend, superglue!! It sits comfortably between the two rocks at the side, and there's a small "dob" of glue at the back which stops it moving. I'd run out of the milliput I used on our Malawi tank, and I knew reefers sometimes use superglue in SW tanks, so I just did it. Haven't noticed any bad effects. 

It is quite big though, and it does lean towards the front - I am hoping to create a bit of light shadow at the front and will have a little bit of moss around the bottom (I just put a bit more in), coming through the HC and Marsilea mix. I don't think the size will be as noticeable once the stems have grown in around it. The M. umbrosum is already leaning forwards, so hopefully it will almost wrap around the the rock, at least on one side. I'm tempted by a bit of H. micranthemoides too to add a bit of leaf-shape diversity at the back just to the right of the main stone - trimmed to the same levels as the umbrosum.  

Cheers,
Tom


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## nayr88 (24 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

looking good mate, i like catching the start of a journal  sounds like its going to be crammed full with your plant list haha i have a 10l on the go with just moss, and i do daily water changes 2.5ltrs (leave the water out for 24hrs with a small amount of treatment in it) and havnt had any algae but it only has a 9w pod over it, but definitely keep the water changes militant.

what will you be dosing ferts wise? will you be using fert tabs? 
cant wait to see the ada sand, im going to order some but wasnt sure wich one to order


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## Tom (24 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Yeah, I might not use the Dwarf Hairgrass. Or maybe just the odd little bit in amongst the HC and Marsilea.

Ferts at the moment are TPN 0.3ml daily and Flourish Excel 0.2ml daily. I've used Tropica root tabs around the deeper gravel at the back and middle.

Tom


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## nayr88 (24 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

niiiiiice

i think the hairgrass would look great, used mor of a back/mid ground plant. i reeealy cant stand odd strands amongst bits of gloso/hc. The rock layout is wicked, i think NeilW posted a pic on his thread with a rock just like that, wetheard at the base and larger up top.

looks decent from the off,


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I got my plants from Plants Alive this morning, and I am disappointed to say the least. They're crap, basically    After waiting 8 days for delivery I hoped for something decent. 

Brown Marsilea and the smallest pot of Hairgrass I've ever seen




HC - Some of it is alive, some of it is yellow/brown but not as bad as Marsilea as you can see. Nothing like the nice healthy image on the website




Yay, happy days. 

Tom


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## Anonymous (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Even from China I hadn't received plants like that.   
Next time try to avoid cheap deals and go for Tropica or simmilar.


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I have just sent them a lovely happy email asking them if they might kindly refund my money. Pets at Home for reasonably priced Tropica here I come!   

Tom


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## Dan Crawford (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Looking good Tom, really good. It's an unusual design but i can see it working well.

Shame about the state of your plants, i had the same issue with them - with Eleocharis. A good bet would be one pot of Tropica's 1-2-GROW Marsilea, give that it's grown in the pot, it'll be nice and compact when you get it, that way you can train it from the start?


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Cheers Dan, it's got a long way to go yet   Those Tropicas look interesting, I've not seen these small types before. Just had a look on TGM. If my sand hasn't been posted yet I might go for it.

If I plant the ones I've got, can I just chop off the leaves and plant the rooted part? Just thinking that the leaves will just rot away anyway. 

Tom


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## a1Matt (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Ouch on the plants! Have you contacted Plants alive? I would   

I'm of the opinion that if you can make a tank look good with with just hardscape and substrate in it, then you have reached a certain level of scaping.  I am seeing this more and more on UKAPS   

This tank has that IMO


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Thanks Matt  I find that looking at a lot of tanks, particularly Iwagumis and it's almost seems a shame to put water in them!

Yeah I've emailed them so just got to see what they say. I've just had a closer look at one of the HC pots (the better of the two) and it obviously hasn't been grown in the pot - it just peeled straight off the rockwool to reveal brown mush below. 

Tom


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## Gill (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Looks Very Nice, How much was the aquel tank, WOW wanted over Â£50 for it last time i asked.


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I paid Â£50 for this 10 liter. I think the 30 liter was Â£60 or Â£65. That seems to be the same price everywhere I have looked. 

Tom


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## LondonDragon (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Excellent for such a small tank, looks much bigger due to the rock work  congrats


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Cheers   

Slight issue now in that several of the cherries are dead   I can still see a few at the back sitting in a group, and another one twitching and swimming around the tank. I dont know what it is, as I washed the gravel thoroughly, and didn't put any where they were - only around the front and sides. Some of them look like they're really struggling. I've done a 50% water change with some old tank water so my ferts are gonna be all over the place, but I really don't wanna lose any more shrimp. Oddly enough, it all seems to be males that are suffering - of the 2 females I can see, they are both ok. 

On a plus note, the ADA Forest Sand looks ok. The grains were a lot bigger than I expected, so I graded it with a sieve and only used the smaller grains. I might dot some of the larger grains around once things have settled down a bit. 

Pics later

Tom


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Most of the remaining shrimp seem to be recovering now, although a couple more have gone. 

ADA Forest Sand Branco - much larger and more varied grains than I thought...




...so I graded it into different sizes using sieves




The tank now it has cleared, and new plants are in. The plants look really scrappy and nasty at the moment and it looks awful, but hopefully when it all starts growing things will improve




Some of the salvaged HC and Eleocharis




Tom


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## Tom (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Plants Alive have agreed to a full refund


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## a1Matt (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Plants Alive have agreed to a full refund



Woo!


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## nayr88 (25 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

niiiice, they were in a proper state.

liking the moss placement mate. sands looking rather sweet too, going to look good with the dark rock and lush green


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## Tom (28 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Thanks nayr. 

I've borrowed a 25-105L lens from a local tog for 10 days so I can shoot his own wedding for him, so I decided to try it out on my 5D with this tank. If I could have a nice general lens right now for myself it would be this one, as my 70-200 is a bit too long for most uses I find, however it is brilliant at what it does. This is shot at ISO 400 @F22.

Here's the shot anyway - I didn't bother removing equipment!! It's still a right mess in there, but I'm confident it'll look good once grown in. I can see the finished scape in my head, but it's just taking a while to get going!





I've got some Rotala wallichii in there now too, and am awaiting some more decent Marsilea. I have some Willow Moss on the way too, so am debating swapping it for the Java. Got Xmas in the 25l too, and I just don't know which to use where!

Tom


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## George Farmer (28 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Looking good mate.

Is it me or is that image a bit soft?  I figured the 24-105 would be pretty sharp, even at f/22?


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## Tom (28 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

It does look it a bit soft on the forums. Maybe it's the re-sizing that's done it. Here's about a 90% crop straight out of the camera, see how this looks. Please excuse the shrimp food!


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## GreenNeedle (28 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Scape and setup looks good Tom.

On the plants from experience I would say that they have grown the HC in sheets.  Maybe on compost or similar and then transferred it into pots for sale.

When I start up a new batch I do that BUT I then let it grow onto/into the rockwool for another 4-5 weeks.  Looks like you got it after a few days.

Good you got a refund on it though.

Keep us posted on progress

AC


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## Tom (28 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Cheers  I think you are absolutely right, it did peel off the top of the rockwool like a flat sheet with brown mush underneath.

Tom


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## Mark Evans (29 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Are you using flash tom?


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## Tom (29 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

No, that was just Compact T5s. 2 over the tank (9w and 11w) and 18w over the white board background. I'd like to try flash at some point. I've got a canon 430EX and an old Miranda flash with wireless triggers I could use. I've not used flash for tank lighting before. 

Tom


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## Tom (29 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Here's my first try with a flash. My main difficulty was getting enough light to the front center of the tank, as the main rock leans forwards really quite far - it almost touches the front glass. Under the normal T5 lighting you can't see much difference with your eyes, but with a single flash over the tank it is heavily shadowed. The way to overcome that seemed to be to add "reflectors", or bits of white foamboard I had lying around either side to reflect the light back to the front of the main rock. I definitely prefer this look than with T5's. It's easier to sort the white balance this way too I think 





Tom


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## Tom (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Just made my first trim of the M. umbrosum. Should hopefully have some more Marsilea and HC in the post, so may get that tomorrow. I've also ordered a load of Willow Moss that I got a really good price on, but I have no clue what to do with it!! I might swap it for the Java that's in there at the moment, or it might go in the 25l I'm using just to grow random stuff.


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## Mark Evans (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> It's easier to sort the white balance this way too I think



do you shoot RAW tom? I find with RAW, I can just about the 'correct' looking W/B with the wrong K rating tube....if that makes sense.

flash of course, should be as close to 5400.


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## Tom (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Yep I shoot RAW and use the K adjustment in Canon DPP. I just found it easier to get the colour more or less straight away using flash rather than T5. The T5's are quite green I think, and even with adjustment it looks odd. 

Tom


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## nayr88 (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

i REALLY need to start gettin into photography   nice pics that main rock is so 'right' haha 

i just want to point and shoot and the camara do all the work......possibility?


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## Tom (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*



> i just want to point and shoot and the camara do all the work......possibility?



Maybe...    I shoot manual on my 5D as I find it easier, and make sure to underexpose by 2/3 of a stop on evaluative metering to not overexpose the lighter parts of the tank. This is because the evaluative metering takes an average reading, and the darkness of the large rock throws the balance off. 

In general, I think you would get away with a semi-automatic mode provided you didn't use any flash and were able to adjust the exposure value up or down as needed. Most compacts should let you do that. 

Tom


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## nayr88 (31 Aug 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Cheers Tom 

Even that post confuses me, could you recommend any camaras for a complete noob? sorry to hijack mate pm me if you would rather.

Ryan.


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## Tom (1 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

It looks like the HC, Grass and Moss are starting to grow a little. I can see several new blades of Hairgrass poking through the larger grains of Forest Sand, and the odd new leaf from the HC. I'm just wondering if the moss might not be quite compact enough for this little tank. Have to see how it grows in. 

I've dropped my TPN dose down to 0.2ml/day as well since the trimming yesterday. Hopefully the stems will start budding new leaves soon, and I can increase the dose again   

Just waiting for my plants now


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## George Farmer (1 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Looks great with the new lighting!



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> I've dropped my TPN dose down to 0.2ml/day as well since the trimming yesterday. Hopefully the stems will start budding new leaves soon, and I can increase the dose again


Why reduce the dosing after trimming?  I was of the understanding that plants may need more nutrients after pruning...


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## Tom (1 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I assumed that as I had reduced plant matter, it would require less ferts - if that's not the case, I'll just carry on!

Cheers George!


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## George Farmer (1 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

In my experience plants respond well to consistency.  Providing there's enough nutrients to supply all of your plants, all of the time, then there's no real need to adjust dosing.  After all, nutrients don't cause algae, providing you have healthy and growing plants provided by appropriate levels of light, CO2 and circulation.    

I'm looking forward to seeing this progress.  It's great to see you back!


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## Tom (1 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I've added that extra 0.1ml of TPN   

Cheers again, It's good to actually have a hobby again! A combination of College, work, and screwing up an ADA tank that I spent a year collecting substrate, ferts and glassware for kind of gave me the push and I stopped almost everything fishy and planty while photography took over. Unfortunately, I think the same thing is happening to my photography since doing it at college and then trying to build up freelance work, but the Aquascaping side of things has definitely made a return. One week after setting this tank up, I have already made plans and a shopping list for the 25l, but whether that happens or not we'll see! I've found I've had to re-learn everything, as I think I've just been lucky in the past! I'm starting to see why the first few went well, and why the last could completely screwed up! 

With "At Forest's Gate" and the other few variations of the "Java" layouts, I had used Aquasoil Malaya with a very low nutrient content, but I was also dosing Brighty Special Lights. When I changed layouts, I used Amazonia without realising it had a high nutrient content, and was still dosing Special Lights in the same ratios as before from the start. I reckon if I only dosed Step 1 and Brighty K and kept my CO2 in check I would have been fine, but there we go. Live and learn!

Tom


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## Tom (2 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*






Got some new HC and Marsilea through the post today. HC is in much better condition than last time, although I should probably have ordered 2 pots, not 1. 








Almost all of the trimmed stems have already developed new buds, but the back right corner seems to be the slowest. It's probably a flow problem I imagine, but I'm not sure what I can do about that at the moment with this filter in such a small tank! 

I've also started using TPN+ rather than standard TPN as of today although I've had no problems as yet. Just interested to see if it makes any difference to the speed of growth - particularly the HC, which has been painfully slow so far.


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## Tom (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I'm getting Green Dust Algae and Diatoms on the rocks and glass at the moment. Maybe because I was using TPN rather than TPN+? Anyway, I'm now using TPN+ which I have upped the dose from 0.3 to 0.4ml daily (James' Planted Tank guide says GDA is from low nutrients and CO2). The Excel has also gone up to 0.4ml daily. I've decided to do daily water changes too in the evenings. 

I wish this HC would get a move on too! (old or new stuff!!) I'm guessing the use of TPN (rather than +) has been stunting the growth?

Tom


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## Mark Evans (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

The water changes should help. Is there co2 injection Tom?


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## Tom (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Nope, just Excel. I sold my regulator and solenoid when I thought I wouldn't be doing high tech tanks again... silly old me. I've still got the glass counter, diffusers, drop checker and FE though. Is there much difference in the effects of Excel vs. gas injection?

Tom


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## ceg4048 (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Err...yeah, like an order of magnitude difference...

Cheers,


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## Tom (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Could you elaborate or give me a link Clive?

Tom

[EDIT] I found quite a useful topic on Seachem forums that explains it basically, but not in much detail


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## ceg4048 (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Tom,
       Liquid carbon products are not CO2. They are basically gluteraldehyde which is a powerful disinfectant. That's why it kills things. Conveniently, CO2 related algae lack whatever mechanism plants have to metabolize the chemical and it's toxic to them.  What higher plants are able to do is to uptake the chemical, and through some internal metabolic process, which only T. Barr understands, converts the chemical to CO2. Even Seachem didn't know how it works so they asked him to figure it out. I guess the data is proprietary so he's not talking.

So by virtue of the fact that the molecule has to be metabolized, with CO2 being the end product, there is no way it can be as effective as gas injection, which forces CO2 across the membranes via simple concentration gradient and which enters directly into the Calvin Cycle without having to go through any previous metabolic process.

Liquid carbon products are great to use as a supplement to injection in order to avoid direct CO2 toxicity but there is no way they can be a direct substitute to gas. The uptake can't be as efficient. If you're using only the liquid and you want faster growth then you're gonna have to dump a lot of it into the tank.

Cheers,


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## Tom (4 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

That's interesting about Seachem and Tom Barr. I didn't realise that's how Excel worked either - I assumed it was literally a liquid carbon that I was dosing, and so couldn't see why it was so much different to CO2. 

I knew it could be toxic to algae, but didn't know why. Presumably, there is a point where it is also toxic to higher plants? 

I may be looking for a new regulator then!

Thanks for the info,
Tom


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## ceg4048 (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> ..I knew it could be toxic to algae, but didn't know why. Presumably, there is a point where it is also toxic to higher plants?


OHHH YES. Just ask (Luis E.) ghostworld Green hair algae only on Rotala Wallichii



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> ...I didn't realise that's how Excel worked either - I assumed it was literally a liquid carbon that I was dosing, and so couldn't see why it was so much different to CO2.


Well, yeah, absolutely the only form of carbon plants can use is CO2. No substitutes allowed whatsoever. All the enzymes and metabolic processes are specifically tuned to the electrochemical assimilation of the compound CO2. Similarly, the only form of Carbon you can eat is the hydrated form, i.e. carbohydrates. Sugar, starch, bread, potato, pasta...these all taste good and you body is tuned to dealing with these molecular forms. Try eating some charcoal. That's pure carbon but it won't taste good and won't be good for you either...  

HC is a high CO2 plant and is definitely unforgiving of CO2 incompetence. If you want to grow lots of it fast then gas injection is the way to go mate.

Cheers,


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## Tom (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Can plants carry out this magical CO2 conversion from Excel during daylight only, or can it happen constantly? I know the CO2 can only be used with light, but are the plants able to convert the Excel without light to then utilise the carbon later on?

I'm just trying to think of the optimum time to dose Excel, if there is such a thing. As you often say, the plants need the CO2 most at the beginning of the photoperiod, so if the plants can convert it without light, it makes sense do dose before the lights come on as you would with CO2 injection. If not, does it really matter when it is dosed?

Tom


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## ceg4048 (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Hi Tom,
          I don't know the details of the conversion mechanism so it's not clear to me regarding the how and when, but according to JamesC's research the gluteraldehyde does have a half life of about 24 hours in water so it really wouldn't be of any value to dose it at night because it would have degraded to some extent by the beginning of the next days photoperiod.

Until more details become clear I reckon you should just dose it an hour or so before lights on just like the injection, and call it good for now.

Cheers,


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## Tom (5 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

OK, cheers. I will do


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

You have done well, I find cube tank's really hard to make look nice! But you have done it!


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## Tom (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Thanks  It's not looking as nice with the rocks covered in GDA and diatoms at the moment, but hopefully that will change soon! Moss and HC is starting to grow now.


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## oliverar (6 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Great, well keep us updated, and post load's of pictures!!!


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## Tom (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I have just ordered new nano lily pipes from AquaEssentials, along with some 11" trimming scissors (am currently using kitchen scissors!), clear tubing, CO2 tubing and a CO2 7mm corner joint glass  

Reason for my order was that I was cleaning my CalAqua nano lily pipes today, and managed to shatter the inflow pipe when I dropped it on the floor after making them crystal clean with limescale remover. Then, when trying to attach the outflow pipe to the tubing, managed to snap it in half and slicing the top of my index finger in the process. I've had a good day :/ haha! Possibly even more blood than my pufferfish bite, and more steri-strips! Laavly. 

Tom


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## Burnleygaz (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Sounds painful tom !


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## Piece-of-fish (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Hi Tom. Hei these glass things break so easily. One thing i wanted to tell about that clear tubing from AE. If you are getting it for a filter i found it too soft. Unless you wont have any bends. Wraping it in something inside the cabinet to the point where they come out helped to reduce that. Maybe 12/16mm would be better, mine is 17/22.
Regards.


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## Tom (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Yeah, I'll try not to break this set too!


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## Tom (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I am thinking I'll make 90 degree bends for the piping like ADA have on their nanos at the gallery. It wont matter about reducing the flow because I think the large Eheim Ecco Pro is slight overkill for a 10 liter  Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to sort that out. It's not in a cabinet though, so the pipes will have to go up the back and along my desk, then up to the lily pipes. I'll sort something. 

It's the 9mm and 12mm I've got, which matches the lily pipes

Tom


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## Ray (7 Sep 2010)

*10 Liter AquaEl*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> I am thinking I'll make 90 degree bends for the piping like ADA have on their nanos at the  Gallery


Can you Link to that Tom?  Nice to see you back BTW


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## Tom (7 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Here you go: http://media.photobucket.com/image/taka ... een/j1.jpg

Except mine would go down the back of the desk, not the front.

Tom


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## Piece-of-fish (8 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Good luck. Maybe due to smaller diameter they wont bend that much. They look good though i must admit.


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## Tom (9 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

My AE order came today - the box had fallen apart, but everything was fine. You're right, the tube is very soft. For now, I've relocated the tank so that the tubes go straight up to the glass pipes. 

The AE lily pipes could best be described as rustic, but they are only cheapish - the slits for the inlet could best be described as rustic, and I am a little worried for my Cherry Shrimp!

However the look good in the tank, and thats what I bought them for. I now have an Eheim 2036 running on a 10 liter!

Scissors look nice and are good to use 

Tom


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## NeilW (9 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> I now have an Eheim 2036 running on a 10 liter!



Thats worse then me    I got the Ecco 130 on my 17 litre...I hope you got the tap turned down     May be alright though as you got a lot of rock blocking flow like I have and theyre also meant to be overrated in lph anyways


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## Tom (9 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Tap's open about 3/4, but the outlet lily pipe is only 9mm, so that will restrict it a bit. Safe to say though there's no dead spots now, so Clive will be happy 

Couple of quick questions if anyone knows...
Dwarf Hairgrass... I trimmed it when it was planted, and the bits that were trimmed are now all really nasty, brown/yellow and just generally don't look great. Now that I've got some new blades coming through, can I get rid of the old stuff? Like trim it right to the gravel?

Same goes for the HC - the old stuff is now quite brown/yellow and manky, whereas new growth is starting to appear. 

Tom


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## ceg4048 (10 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

Hi mate, glad you're getting that sorted out. Hope the finger is healing.

Just get rid of the manky stuff. It only harbours problems and never gets better. New growth is what you're after.

Cheers,


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## Tom (13 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I'm still getting the Diatoms at the moment and I've noticed a bit of hair algae on the HC so I've ordered an UP Regulator - the 2 gauge one with solenoid. Hopefully it'll do, and I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that Excel just won't cut it! I can't believe I sold my JBL reg. I've also just realized that I still do have CO2 in my FE, by accidentally setting it off. I won't do that again    Not sure exactly how much is left, but I'll see when I get the reg through the post. I've still got all the glassware and new CO2 tubing, so should be all good to go   

And I'll be off to TGM at the weekend too, to pick up my Mini M and possibly some Aquasoil, sand etc    Excitement!


----------



## Tom (14 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I'm hoping I'm over the worst of the Diatoms now - the new tips of the M. umbrosum doesn't seem to be getting quite so covered now. You can see though where I have cleaned the large rock, as it is much cleaner than the others. They are more difficult to get to and need more a delicate touch to avoid disturbing the substrate. The front rock is still too shadowy, but I'll sort that out later on. The substrate in the front right corner seems the worst hit by the diatoms, but the HC is beginning to grow in. It's growing best down the right-hand side. The front may be a bit shadowy for it which would explain the slow growth. Moss is growing great though, although you can't see well in this pic!






I've also learned not to have forward-leaning hardscape! Here's the flash setup for that shot. I had to position the flash a bit further forward than I would have liked, and also had to add the reflectors again to bounce light back up to the front rock. 

No reflectors - you can see it is much more shadowed




With reflectors




Not great shots, but I won't try too hard until this algae has receded!

Tom


----------



## Tom (17 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl*

I got my new UP Dual Gauge Regulator/Solenoid through this morning, so have set it up to run at 1 bubble every 3 seconds to start with. After one hour, the plants are pearling, which I hadn't seen in this tank until now. Let's sort this algae out!

Tom


----------



## Tom (23 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Just thought I'd put up some more recent pics. Hopefully the diatoms are a little more under control now since I've switched back down to the original 9w light, have started CO2 injection and have switched ferts to a TPN/TPN+ ratio of 3:1 as per Graeme's advice. Pics shot with Asahi Pentax 55mm F2 from the 60's on the now clean-sensored 5D, but I love it!





The Umbrosum is still struggling, but new shoots are appearing all over the shop. 




I've also sprinkled a fine layer of new sand over the top of the diatom-infested stuff in the hope of starving the last of it off... the rocks were cleaned again yesterday.




HC is *painfully* slow




The temptation is just unreal!!




Tom


----------



## Ian Holdich (23 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

thats a lovely nano tank, what stocking is in there at the moment?


----------



## Tom (23 Sep 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Thanks - it's still recovering though. Just some Cherrys, but I'm not sure how many as it was a bad batch and I lost a few over consecutive days. A friend got some CRS and Cherrys at the same place, with the same outcome. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (1 Oct 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*


----------



## Gill (1 Oct 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Looks amazing


----------



## Tom (27 Oct 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Update - It's actually started growing normally at last!! Have started seeing some BBA only very recently, but nothing has changed. Drop checker is always yellow.


----------



## akwarybka (31 Oct 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

I can see how CO2 injection is affecting your plants 
Waiting for more pictures of tank's progress


----------



## Garuf (31 Oct 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Always an exceptional scaper, keep us updated it's growing in really well!


----------



## Tom (9 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10 Liter AquaEl - I have CO2!!*

Right, I've had a right old hack back recently, as all that algae had damaged so much of the plants lower down and it looked really ugly. Almost all stems are gone, except for a tiny bit of Umbrosum back right, and a mix of all-sorts behind the rock. I'm waiting to see how that will look when it pokes over top - may axe that too. 

I've taken the moss right back to the bottom, removing almost all of it that wasn't directly attached to the rock, in an effort to promote healthy growth. 

The HC is still challenging me, but as you can see it is growing much better now. There are a lot of damaged leaves mixed in with the good new growth, and I'm slowly getting rid of it as the new stuff comes through. Slow, but definite progress!!

Meanwhile, the Mini M is still there, hardscape ready to go, but I can't touch it until I'm happy with this one and move the equipment over!! I've written it off for any competitions, but at least it could look half decent soon   You might also be able to tell I've had to lighten the rocks and moss in Photoshop, as it comes out very dark under flash, whereas the white sand blows easily.





Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Tom, i see the HC all the way around the base of the stone. I personally think it does not need stems in the back.

The moss on the stone looks tremendous.


----------



## Tom (9 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Thanks Mark, (I was joking about no posts in the other thread, not trying to shepherd people this way!!)

Yeah the reason there's no HC on the left is that it simply didn't grow. I think the rock was overshadowing it too much as the light is slightly to the right, and it just withered off and went stringy. It's not a flow issue, as it's the most turbulent area in the tank, without being too strong. 

Im trimming the HC now, hopefully going to tidy it up a bit - particularly round the front as it's growing in clumps down there rather than evenly as it is at the sides.

I've still got some BBA on the lower rocks as you can probably see and it is very reluctant to budge - I covered the main rock in Excel, and it did a great job, but I can't remove enough water to do the rest of it properly. I'm a bit worried I'll kill off the HC there too.

Tom


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Thanks Mark, (I was joking about no posts in the other thread, not trying to shepherd people this way!!)



 i know mate.


----------



## Tom (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

I'm getting tempted to go moss-only again, and take all the HC and stems out! My last few have been moss-only though... I still think it would look better like that though, far less cluttered.


----------



## Stu Worrall (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

scape is looking really good tom. as mark said the moss on the rock looks really good, just like a river stone with is clinging on.

ive got a mini-m on order so looking forward to scaping one but it wont be going for a while as ive got to save for the other equipment for it


----------



## Steve Smith (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Agree with Mark and Stu   HC looks nice around the base of the rock, gives great scale making the rock look like a cliff face with grass on top, like Halong Bay or something


----------



## Tom (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Thanks guys  Steve now you've mentioned Halong Bay it makes me want to strip my Mini-M before I even begin for another rock/moss/open foreground scape!! I can't keep away from them! I'm trying to force myself to use wood and plants I haven't tried before this time, but my heart is still with a nice, tidy moss Iwagumi and sand foreground!


----------



## Stu Worrall (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

youre the same as me tom, i keep doing the same!  Ive got a load of manzi wood outside that is yet to see a scape but ill get there eventually!


----------



## Tom (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

I'm determined to use my wood this time! Alongside stones collected in Llangollen from my TGM trip  Been set up like this for over a month now... apologies for the dirty glass!!!


----------



## Stu Worrall (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

now that does look cool 

sorry to go OT but whats the sand in the ada tank tom?


----------



## Tom (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Forest Sand Branco - it's the same in the 10 liter, but I graded it first as it looked too chunky for that tiny tank. When I ordered it, I hadn't realised the grain size was so much bigger and varied than the Nile, Bright and Sarowak I've used before.


----------



## Stu Worrall (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

i quite like the varied part of it.  Ive got nile in my 90cm at the moment so might fancy something different for the mini-m

EDIT, ive got bonsai soil sieves as well so theyd do well with this sand


----------



## Tom (10 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

I think it's fine left ungraded for a Mini-M size, but it looked odd in the smaller tank. I've left it as it is for my Mini-M. It lets it blend into the larger rocks better and should help with the less manicured look I'm going for this time.


----------



## Tom (17 Dec 2010)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

As of yesterday, I've doubled the TPN+ I'm putting in this one - just to see if it makes any difference. My light isn't very high, my CO2 should be good (1bps into Eheim external), my distribution is good, and yet the plants aren't growing healthily, especially the HC. Only thing I can think is not enough ferts, so I'm going to see what happens. It's now 1ml TPN+, 1ml TPN and 1/2ml Excel daily and a drop of ADA Green Gain every few.


----------



## Tom (2 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

I've seen a definite increase in growth since doubling the TPN+, and very little algae. Anyway, growth is good, and I hope to have this finished by Feb 1st (my birthday, when I hope to get TGM vouchers  )

Tom


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*

Quick update to show growth. Still getting brown algae on the older umbrosum stems though! The rest seems ok. TPN+ now up to 1.5ml/day, CO2 to over 1bps, stopping Excel to see what happens.


----------



## nayr88 (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

looking good Tom

i like the way your wall adds a backdrop to the tank dark blue to fading to light blue closer to the light.
well done for sticking at it, plenty of people on such a small tank would of stripped it down and started again, aswell as having a the ada set up haha, any journal for this?

moss looks good


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Thanks  Yeah, it's hard keeping it going sitting next to the Mini M, but I won't be filling that until at least February. So no journal as yet, just that picture a page or two back. I still haven't fully decided on planting yet either, mainly due to tenellus being so expensive.


----------



## nayr88 (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

yeah i see that picture, why not start a thread showing different planting arrangments harscape ect  haha can you tell i want to see some pictures haha

yeah i went into aqua design centre aand they wanted Â£6.50 for a below par pot of p.helferi!!!!

madness


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

I might  

It's like Â£7 a pot or something for tenellus from TGM :/ So I'm leaning towards Hairgrass and Glosso/HC with moss on wood, maybe some Hydrocotyle and M. micranthemoides too. Who knows...


----------



## nayr88 (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

do it do it dooo it haha

I   PESONALLY disagree with there pricing.

Also it would be super-fan-tabbi-tosi if they would come up with a ukaps discount card.

wonder how long this post will last for. EDIT ; it seems not even 24hours.


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Tropica wholesale prices are substantially higher than many other companies - aquadip for example. It's understandable that the prices are higher, but in my opinion it is too much. 

Haha I don't think your post will be covered up too quickly, UKAPS isn't like our government


----------



## Garuf (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Hahaha, people have already taken to calling it that.

Plants have universally gone through the roof pricing wise. Nearly Â£300 for 30 pots of plants I got quoted recently, the equivalent Af cost roughly a 3rd of that, there are other options available, but some just do not have the quality.


----------



## Nelson (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> wonder how long this post will last for.



not long   .


----------



## chilled84 (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

hey mate i have some et for u, about 7 plantlets!


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

If you've still got them in Feb I might take you up on that!


----------



## nayr88 (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

oh god ..what have i started !! haha

discount card for ukaps members???  maybe a sign up fee but you should receive news letters heads up on incoming stock and info help regarding the hobby...aswell as special club offers.....  

wheres my mixing spoon?


----------



## Piece-of-fish (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Looking nice Tom. Give me a shout for micraithemoides if you need it in february.
Pets at home have tropica at a fairly low prices, 3 for 10 i reckon. You dont get to choose though.


----------



## Tom (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

You always have so much of that going spare!!! I've still got the last lot you sent me - well, some of it - growing emersed in a tub on my window sill along with some spiky moss. 

I've found pets at home to be quite good if you catch them on a delivery day or day after. They soon go to waste though round here.


----------



## Piece-of-fish (7 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> You always have so much of that going spare!!! I've still got the last lot you sent me - well, some of it - growing emersed in a tub on my window sill along with some spiky moss.
> 
> I've found pets at home to be quite good if you catch them on a delivery day or day after. They soon go to waste though round here.



  Yes yes, loads of it for another 6 months or so 
Completely true for pets at home. You are lucky if you catch, waste later. I am popping in quite often just to check.


----------



## George Farmer (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 9/12*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

>


Looking lovely, Tom.  I love the complex textures.

Good luck with the brown algae.  How's the circulation down there?


----------



## Tom (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Cheers George. The circulation is intense! The lowest flow area is right below the diffuser, but there's no problems there. The affected umbrosum sways with the flow.


----------



## Tom (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Update again! Removed umbrosum and trimmed moss


----------



## George Farmer (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

I really like this.  The stone is very dominant but the planting softens it enough to provide good balance to the whole layout.

One to watch...


----------



## Tom (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Thanks George. What do you think about the open substrate on the left? I've got a couple of bits of HC there now that are starting to spread, but it'll be ages before it's similar to the right side. I've just seen I need to re-do the moss at the back left now too. The HC could also do with neatening up.


----------



## George Farmer (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Hi Tom

I like the open sand.  I think the layout needs some open area, but maybe it could be better positioned?

At the moment it provides a big contrast to the vertical edge of the stone.  I am wondering if the open area were on the right it may make a nicer transition.

It all depends on what effect you're after.  The openness against the vertical rock makes for a cliff-effect I guess.

What was your thinking behind it, or was it a 'random' decision?

What does work very nicely is the moss attaching to the stone.  I must try this at some point!

What camera are you using for this?  Is the 5D fixed?


----------



## Tom (8 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

It's more a case of "the HC didn't grow on that side" rather than a deliberate decision. Probably due to the light being blocked slightly by the large rock. I'm wondering if I could lift the HC from the front of the scape and reposition it on the left, and have a play to balance the light more evenly. Could go very wrong though!

Moss is the only plant I've grown in every scape without fail. Good thing it's my favourite! 

The last couple of pictures are with the 450D with standard 18-55is. The 5D is still dead for now. I spoke to Canon, who didn't really have an answer other than "book it in for a service at Â£120+vat and we'll narrow down the problem". Yeah, I've got Â£120+vat just sitting here! So it'll be a little while before it gets sorted yet. Good job I'm getting into this medium format lark


----------



## NeilW (14 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Stunning tank, the planting makes the rock look like its been there for years.  What species of moss did you go for in the end?  Where did you get hold of your willow moss too, if you don't mind me asking?  Keep up the good work!

Cheers


----------



## Tom (14 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Thanks Neil  It's plain old Java, like my previous tanks - just kept tidy and trimmed. The Willow was from eBay, not specifically labelled for planted tanks though. It looked like it had been grown in a pond. The "leaves" were very dark and tough. Once the new growth comes through in a tank it is a much lighter green and a bit more delicate looking.

Tom


----------



## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Right, now I've hopefully sussed the reason behind the bad growth (water softener), I've had a right good clear out and trimmed most of the nasty stuff. The rock had never been secure really either, and was too close to the front glass for me to clean without knocking it. Sooo... I removed a couple of rocks and ended up with a new-ish layout. 




Question is, Do I use the leftover post of HC on this?




Tom


----------



## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

Yep


----------



## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Picture update 7/01*

The UP Atomizer turned up today, thanks Hoggie! Seems like a nice, well built piece of kit. I can't tighten the screw part over the tube to secure it properly, but maybe my tubing is just thicker than it's meant for. The bubble counter has been showing a fairly erratic 1bps for a few minutes and I haven't noticed any bubbles in the tank, but maybe it's still building pressure (very possible as I've just changed the water in the counter)


----------



## chilled84 (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Very nice!


----------



## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

It's started working  When they said micro-bubbles, they weren't joking! So much better than the glass ceramic diffusers so far!


----------



## George Farmer (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Forget the microbubbles, you have a dirty outlet, and are sharing it in public.  Disgusting!


----------



## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Shhh, leave my dirty outlet alone! Don't tell anyone, but I also have a dirty inlet... I can't find anything thin and bendy enough to remove the brown stuff. (Shocking!)

AquaJardin do a cheap version of a spring washer but I'm worried it might not fit these thin AquaEssentials nano pipes. Hopefully they'll be trying it out today, and if it works I'll get one


----------



## nayr88 (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

jealous!!!

im going to have t do it and order one from the far east. im using a cheap 'marina' spring washer and works excellent, sayin that your glassware looks very thin.

i was using cotton buds :/ lol they were a really fat type i think to stop you digging in your ear too much hahaha.

cheers mate


----------



## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Now it's settled down at +/- 1bps there are no bubbles spilling into the tank. It is still working, because if I turn off the filter for 10 seconds and then back on, it builds up and spits them out. Drop checker is a nice yellow/green. Very pleased with it 
It seems since I've changed the water source there's been quite a dramatic improvement in the moss growth. The new growth is a nice light green as it should be, rather than very dark. The diatoms seem to have also all but stopped since the re-do too. Hopefully this will continue, and the problem was just Na overdose after all. Just need to shake the bba now, which is tricky as it's too close to the moss to attack with Excel in most places. 
HC is also putting out some roots, but there is a little bit of die-back.


----------



## GHNelson (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Shhh, leave my dirty outlet alone! Don't tell anyone, but I also have a dirty inlet... I can't find anything thin and bendy enough to remove the brown stuff. (Shocking!)
> 
> AquaJardin do a cheap version of a spring washer but I'm worried it might not fit these thin AquaEssentials nano pipes. Hopefully they'll be trying it out today, and if it works I'll get one


Tom
I would be very careful when removing those pipes from the tubing when going to clean them they are very easily broken.
I busted a pair trying to remove them...... the glass is very fragile.Better still try and find a connection where you can remove the Lily pipes with a piece of tubing attached.
A couple of 10mm pushfit on/off valves may do the trick.
Regards
hoggie


----------



## foxfish (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

They certainly work well!
 I used two jubilee clips to secure the diffuser as I also could not get the screw fitting to work!
I also found I had to adjust the bubble count several times in the first few days before it really settled down.


----------



## Gill (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

That does indeed look very good. Pffft Dirty In/Outlet. George would scream looing at some of mine. 

Sometimes I wish there was a Thumbs Up button for a comment.


----------



## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *



> Tom
> I would be very careful when removing those pipes from the tubing when going to clean them they are very easily broken.
> I busted a pair trying to remove them...... the glass is very fragile.Better still try and find a connection where you can remove the Lily pipes with a piece of tubing attached.
> A couple of 10mm pushfit on/off valves may do the trick.
> ...



Tell me about it! I had the nice Cal Aqua nano set before these, and when fitting them back after cleaning one of them snapped and ended up in my finger. That was 4 months ago or so, and I've got a nasty scar/lump that still hurts to touch!    Hence the cheap AE ones!!



> They certainly work well!
> I used two jubilee clips to secure the diffuser as I also could not get the screw fitting to work!
> I also found I had to adjust the bubble count several times in the first few days before it really settled down.



I've just had to fit a jubilee to the tube where it fits to the Eheim. I had to use a thinner tube for these particular lilys, so just push-fitted it into the normal larger tube (12mm I think?). Anyway, I noticed it had gone brittle and there was a slight leak after I fitted the atomizer, so there's a clip holding it together nicely now. Feels a bit safer!!

Tom


----------



## nayr88 (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Gill, on an Arizona aquatic plant forum I use they have a thank you button and a counter that says how many times your been thanked on how many topics, its quite cool, there should be a you tube type agree thing.

Back on topic. 

Get the glassware clean because I've heard a rumor there are bans being given to untidy aquarists on the forum mate!!! Don't shoot the messenger haha just get it clean, and watch your strength this time


----------



## Gill (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Gill, on an Arizona aquatic plant forum I use they have a thank you button and a counter that says how many times your been thanked on how many topics, its quite cool, there should be a you tube type agree thing.
> 
> Back on topic.
> 
> Get the glassware clean because I've heard a rumor there are bans being given to untidy aquarists on the forum mate!!! Don't shoot the messenger haha just get it clean, and watch your strength this time




Yeah i like the one on the dvdforums one. 


well that would be me banned staright off


----------



## Tom (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Just some pics of the moss growth since switching water sources  It's the first time I've seen bright green growth since setting the tank up. The dark stuff on the underside is the old, nasty growth that's struggling to shift the algae. This is definitely now an experiment tank rather than a proper layout, but I've learned a lot from it!

Still love my atomizer though 








Tom


----------



## Ian Holdich (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

nice shots Tom, can i ask what you have switched the water source to?


----------



## nayr88 (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

nice one Tom, it can always be disheartening when problems arise such as alqae and poor growth, even if we are doing a good job of up keep supplying good nutrients co2 ect, obviously the porblem in this case was your water source, so its cool youve got that sorted and didnt tear down the tank. well done broseph.

ive never liked moss on mini landscape rock but it does actually look quite smart in those shots.


----------



## nry (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Impressive, way smaller bubbles than my Boyu - I suspect one of these may be purchased shortly


----------



## nayr88 (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

ive orderd one... cant wait


----------



## Tom (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> nice one Tom, it can always be disheartening when problems arise such as alqae and poor growth, even if we are doing a good job of up keep supplying good nutrients co2 ect, obviously the porblem in this case was your water source, so its cool youve got that sorted and didnt tear down the tank. well done broseph.
> 
> ive never liked moss on mini landscape rock but it does actually look quite smart in those shots.



Yeah it's getting pummelled with 1bps CO2 (100% dissolved through the atomizer - no bubbles in tank!) and 2ml TPN+ (14x recommended dose). Light is only 9w, and the filter is an Ecco Pro. The only thing it could really have been after all was the water softener. 



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> nice shots Tom, can i ask what you have switched the water source to?



I was using a water softener that exchanged Mg and Ca for Na. The thinking is that the plants may have been deprived of the Mg and Ca, while having a huge Na overdose. The water tastes horrible to drink!! Salty and nasty. I've switched to normal tapwater from the outside hose, left to reach room temperature. 

Tom


----------



## nayr88 (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

yeah, well good its sorted mate, do AE not sell those lillys any more? i broke my inlet on my cals the ther day, and i actually quite like those ones youve got but cant find them on there site  do you know of any other cheap lillys?


----------



## Tom (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

I bought the last set from AE 
The CalAquas I had before were much much nicer though, and not too much more expensive.


----------



## nayr88 (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

30quid for an inlet though!! 

ill keep an eye on the for sale thread a pair came up a couple months ago, i should of got them as a spare.

the search goes one


----------



## Tom (5 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

I'm sure I paid no more than £40 for the set at TGM  Couple years ago though...


----------



## Tom (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

While the moss seems to have "turned over a new leaf" since the water swap recently, the HC still has it's troubles. I'm wondering if maybe it's struggling to put out runners in the course substrate? Anyway, the old growth has gone manky, but the new stuff seems reasonable so far. Just a bit all over the place. Does HC prefer fine substrates?





I nuked the remaining BBA with Excel a couple days ago, and it looks like it's starting to die off


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## LondonDragon (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

I have never managed to keep HC successfully in gravel (non fertile substrate), careful with the EC spot dosing, over due it and you will nuke the mosses too.


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## George Farmer (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

In the absence of a soil-based nutrient-rich substrate, HC tends to require high levels of nitrogen dosed into the water column.  CO2 down at the substrate is a must too.


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## nry (10 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

I'd give the HC another week or two then give it a hard trim - I've only ever planted HC in individual strands, pushed right into the substrate, leaving only a couple of leaves showing.  For me, this seems to encourage sideways growth instead of the upwards growth some get.  I prefer a smaller grain for HC, but mine is doing well in florabase however I would say it takes some shoots a while to throw down strong enough roots to crawl along the substrate more closely.  The bits in less light do end up more straggly than those in the centre of the tank.


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## Tom (10 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

I've chopped off some of the stragglers, as well as trimmed the moss again. Also trimmed the hairgrass that's been in there for a couple of weeks now. Will leave the HC for a while now to see what it does :/


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## Tom (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Atomizer fitted *

Dont know how much different this update is, but here's another tank shot. Please ignore the pipes again!




The diatoms are definitely making a comeback, especially on the old HC leaves. Hopefully the new leaves will stay fairly clean but from past experience with this tank it has proved near impossible to shift :/ There's nothing wrong with the filtration, and the new leaves seem to be OK so far so hopefully they'll be able to overcome the diatoms.... yet again.


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## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - The return of the diatoms....*

When I set the Mini M up, I removed the FE CO2 and Eheim filter to go on that, and replaced the filter with a small Azoo HOB filter. I have carried on the Excel and TPN+/N dosing as before. I am expecting to see some BBA due to loss of CO2 (liquid only), and diatoms due to losing huge amounts of filtration capacity/bacteria but so far nothing after maybe 3 days. The moss has continued growing and has even more light green tips. The HC is still as it was. Will be interesting to see what happens, if anything. The new filter was completely clean and not matured when I added it. I only have fine white floss in it.


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## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

*Re: 10l - Now no CO2*

Bye bye 10 liter  Some plants transferred to Do!aqua cube, along with light and filter.


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## gregalon (25 Feb 2011)

what! why did you stop?? I liked it


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## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

It wasn't really going anywhere and I'd had so many problems with it. Hopefully I can take what I've learned from this tank and apply it to the Do!aqua cube, which I'm determined will not see anywhere near as much algae!! I got a large pad of Glosso through the post which was the final decision-maker to switch to the new cube, so I swapped it all over.  I've started off with the same fert routine as I left this tank, just with daily 50% water changes. See my Do!aqua 20 thread for the new start!!

Tom


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