# what DSLR in 2017 for aquarium photography and filming



## Nigel95

Currently I own a compact camera the samsung nx300m just the body with a simple lens.

I have improved my pictures with hanging more light above the tank.

The problem I still have is that I can't put my shutterspeed at something like 1/200. The picture gets to dark. With something like 1/60 the picture is light enough but fish are blurry. So I guess the main problem is that It would be nice if I could shoot with higher ISO w/o losing picture quality.

I am considering to buy a DSLR but want to hear some opinions. I have a few questions about what DSLR would suit me.
1) What do you guys think about second hand. It saves some money and most people advertise with the total amount of pictures that were taken (something like 25k and on the internet it says a DSLR can shoot 100k+ pictures easy).
2) My main goal is full aquarium shots / filming. So it would be nice to have a DSLR that can take quality pictures and filming. (would a special lens improve this, or is the body enough?)
3) What would cost a lens for macro photography and filming? What lens do I need for this?
4) I see camera's in very different price ranges. What do we need for aquarium photography? When is a camera simple overkill for our hobby?
5) It would be nice if I can shoot some pictures with the dslr in nature or on holidays. Example of landscapes / forests etc.
6) I don't really have a "big" budget but also don't wanna buy something that is not going to meet my requirements. So feel free to recommend everything  It needs to improve my current camera a lot.

What DSLR would you recommend to me and why? If you have multiple options please let me know.


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## Tim Harrison

I was looking for a DSLR for exactly the same reason, and you're right there seems to be an infinite selection to choose from, and then just to confuse even more mirrorless cameras are apparently coming in to their own as well 

In the end I decided to stick with my iPhone camera for now and perhaps save up and buy a more expensive model later.

However, I narrowed the field down straight away to Canon and Nikon, both seem to have fairly comparable models for similar prices with plus and minus points. On balance I thought Canon might suit me better, above all else I just like the way they handled.

Obviously budget is an issue, and both brands offer a range of models and a fantastic range of lenses many of which are affordable. Their new entry cameras seem to offer most of what you'll need. I liked Canon's EOS 200D and EOS 800D, but I suppose they are still fairly pricey.

Older models are much cheaper and will probably serve just as well, but obviously they're not quite as advanced. The Canon EOS 1300D is still perhaps a decent entry option, for instance. Buying a second hand body and lens will obviously work out cheaper too, so that's also worth considering.

If you're feeling flush the EOS 80D from Canon's Advanced range is a good option. I figured this camera coupled with a 18-135 IS Nano USM lens would pretty much cover most of my needs.

A dedicated macro lense is always a big plus for aquarium type photography as well and Big Tom has this to say https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/help-picking-between-these-cameras.29545/#post-308851

There is some sage advice from George Farmer in the same thread as well, and here https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/canon-350d-best-lens.21737/page-2#post-222870 I think he particularly likes the Canon 50mm f/1.8. A UKAPS search or two will probably reveal even more good advice.

I also did a bit of digging around to find the best prices and kept coming back to this retailer https://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/ From what I can gather their prices are very competitive and their feedback is pretty good. There did seem to be some issue with this seller retailing grey imports but I think they checked out OK. They offer the usual 1 years manufacturers guarantee (which grey imports do not) along with their own additional 2 years cover.


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## Nigel95

Thanks for your reply Tim. Nice information



Tim Harrison said:


> I figured this camera coupled with a 18-135 IS Nano USM lens would pretty much cover most of my needs



Do I get it right that this lens will be able to shoot full tank shots + macro? For example when shooting the full tank you will use it at like 20mm and when shooting macro you will shoot it with a  higher mm?

I get very confused about all this lenses. When I buy a DSLR second hand how do I know the lens is okay?  Or better to just go for the body and buy a specific lens? Same for DX and FX lenses. What lenses are better for aquarium photography?

I got another tip that the nikon d600 full frame camera is very nice. What is better for aquarium photography a full frame or a crop camera?


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## Danny

The camera body is no where near as important as the lens quality, as a rule full frame is always better than crop but the good old Canon 7d is a fantastic body for all round use.

For macro work you really will want a dedicated macro lens, the Canon 100mm 2.8L macro or even Sigma macro would be my choice for lens.

You will be able to use a macro for full tank shots as long as you have enough distance between you and the tank.

Buying used gear is never really a problem as long as you make sure it is well described and in good condition.

As an entry to full frame on a budget to cover macro and all round out and about landscape/holidays/family etc I would go with;

Canon 5dmkii
Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro
Canon 24-105 f/4L


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## Tim Harrison

Nigel95 said:


> Do I get it right that this lens will be able to shoot full tank shots + macro? For example when shooting the full tank you will use it at like 20mm and when shooting macro you will shoot it with a higher mm?


I'm knda' at the limit of my meagre knowledge, just thought I'd share what I found out so far...

But as far as I know - no, not especially, I guess that would be my preference for a general purpose lens, which you also mentioned you'd be interested in for nature, landscape, travel etc, that's why I also added the links to comments about a dedicated macro lens and a 50mm lens. If you follow this thread down there is some good advice from both George and Tom https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/help-picking-between-these-cameras.29545/#post-308851

Tom also mentions a site where you can pick up decent secondhand kit as well https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/ and there are plenty of buying guides out there on the web.



Nigel95 said:


> What is better for aquarium photography a full frame or a crop camera?


The full frame/cropped frame thing is a bit more complicated, but if I understand it correctly, in a nutshell, full frame has a bigger field of view, which means you usually get a better quality photo. Perhaps more importantly, if you're on a tight budget a full frame camera is probably out of reach since it will cost more. But again there are a multitude of resources on the web that will explain it better than I can.
Either way, expensive kit doesn't necessarily guarantee great photos...you still need to be a good photographer to get good photos.


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## Edvet

Any of the new bodies will do, Canon or Nikon. Just choose one with the price and the specs you like.
Another thing is tank pictures. If you realy want to do them right you'll need 1) a decent tripod, 2) detachable flashlights 3) a lens that suits your needs
Most IAPLC pics are taken this way, if you just want to shoot a pic you can do without these.
Macro lens: a true macro lens is great for detail, but these are fixed distance and to realy get big detail you'll need to get close to the subject, also you'll want a detachable flashlight or ringlight to get any depth of field.\
Zoomlens: a zoomlens will allow you more versatility, at the cost of some sharpness. If you get one with a macrofunction it can help to get you those bigger magnifications. Again a flashlight wil help yoo to get bigger depth of field

If you realy want to get started with this i would get a secondhand 3-4 year old body and a 50mm  1.4 lens. This way you can get experience, the 1.4 lens will allow you to shoot handhold in lower light and get good results, and often those 50 mm have realy good quality for pice ratio.
If you like it you can research for lenses, tripod and flashlight  before you invest

i myself have a Nikon D300, an old body but does everything i want. Full frame bodies a re more expensive and will need more expensive lenses for good results, also it will take longer on the computer to work with these large files.
For my tank i usually use a 24-85 zoom with a macro function, I also have a 60 and 100 mm Macro lens but for the tank these are harder to use. Sometimes i use a 12-24 wide lens for full tank shots from closer in , bu these pics need work to remove distortion. I use the 50mm 1.4 for low light foto's. My 100-300 telezoom isn't used for the tank


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## Nigel95

Danny said:


> Canon 7d is a fantastic body for all round use



This one is pretty "cheap" second hand.



Danny said:


> You will be able to use a macro for full tank shots as long as you have enough distance between you and the tank.



Not much space in my room unfortunately.



Danny said:


> As an entry to full frame on a budget to cover macro and all round out and about landscape/holidays/family etc I would go with;
> 
> Canon 5dmkii
> Canon 100mm f/2.8L Macro
> Canon 24-105 f/4L



Think I will start with a body and lens for full tank shots and later when I have more budget I will go for a macro lens.

What will be the difference between the canon 7d and the canon 5dmkii for aquarium photography? The difference is pretty big (money).


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## Danny

Edvet said:


> Any of the new bodies will do, Canon or Nikon. Just choose one with the price and the specs you like.
> Another thing is tank pictures. If you realy want to do them right you'll need 1) a decent tripod, 2) detachable flashlights 3) a lens that suits your needs
> Most IAPLC pics are taken this way, if you just want to shoot a pic you can do without these.
> Macro lens: a true macro lens is great for detail, but these are fixed distance and to realy get big detail you'll need to get close to the subject, also you'll want a detachable flashlight or ringlight to get any depth of field.\
> Zoomlens: a zoomlens will allow you more versatility, at the cost of some sharpness. If you get one with a macrofunction it can help to get you those bigger magnifications. Again a flashlight wil help yoo to get bigger depth of field
> 
> If you realy want to get started with this i would get a secondhand 3-4 year old body and a 50mm  1.4 lens. This way you can get experience, the 1.4 lens will allow you to shoot handhold in lower light and get good results, and often those 50 mm have realy good quality for pice ratio.
> If you like it you can research for lenses, tripod and flashlight  before you invest
> 
> i myself have a Nikon D300, an old body but does everything i want. Full frame bodies a re more expensive and will need more expensive lenses for good results, also it will take longer on the computer to work with these large files.
> For my tank i usually use a 24-85 zoom with a macro function, I also have a 60 and 100 mm Macro lens but for the tank these are harder to use. Sometimes i use a 12-24 wide lens for full tank shots from closer in , bu these pics need work to remove distortion. I use the 50mm 1.4 for low light foto's. My 100-300 telezoom isn't used for the tank


Dept of field is created with aperture not flash, f/2.8 and below will give the best DOF. Using a zoom with macro capability with a wide aperture such as f/2.8 will also add compression which will add DOF look.


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> 1) a decent tripod, 2) detachable flashlights 3) a lens that suits your needs



I have a very cheap tripod. What makes the difference with a more expensive one? Mine isn't completely level/horizontal but the ruler in photoshop will fix this.

Are flashlights much better than just normal lighting above the tank? I found the flashlights a little bit expensive and bought some cheap floodlights which improved my pictures really much, but still I think my camera lacks to get it "perfect".

After some research this is the specs I am looking for, to make contest photos

DX use 18-20mm.
FX use 28-30mm

Tanks 1- 2ft- f8-f11 1/200
3ft & above f5.6-8 is enough.



Edvet said:


> Sometimes i use a 12-24 wide lens



So cheaper body means DX lens right? Seeing the information above I need a lens like 12-24 to get in the 18-20 range?

Sorry me being a noob on this subject. Appreciate all help!


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## Danny

Nigel95 said:


> This one is pretty "cheap" second hand.
> 
> 
> 
> Not much space in my room unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Think I will start with a body and lens for full tank shots and later when I have more budget I will go for a macro lens.
> 
> What will be the difference between the canon 7d and the canon 5dmkii for aquarium photography? The difference is pretty big.


The biggest difference between the 7d and 5dmkii for your needs are crop sensor on the 7d and full frame on the mkii which will dictate which lenses you can use as crop sensors use Canon EF-S and full frame L lenses are EF mount.

You can use EF on APS-C crop sensors but not EFS on full frame, if using a body such as the 7d just multiply the focal length of a lens by 1.6x to get the equivalent focal length created by the crop sensor.


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## Nigel95

Danny said:


> The biggest difference between the 7d and 5dmkii for your needs are crop sensor on the 7d and full frame on the mkii which will dictate which lenses you can use as crop sensors use Canon EF-S and full frame L lenses are EF moun



Do I have it right that a crop sensor camera and lens is much cheaper than a full frame with EFS? Is the difference really noticeable in shooting pictures of aquariums (full tank and macro).

Might go just for a crop sensor camera if it is much cheaper and not a big difference for my goals.


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## Edvet

Danny said:


> Dept of field is created with aperture


and what do you need to use small apertures??


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## Edvet

Nigel95 said:


> Might go just for a crop sensor camera if it is much cheaper and not a big difference for my goals.


I would go for a crop sensor for now, full frame sensors make everything much more expensive, and you won't need it for great pictures.


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## Danny

Edvet said:


> and what do you need to use small apertures??


Either a body capable of shooting useable images at high ISO or an external light source, in the case of aquariums the tank light is enough the majority of the time.


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> I would go for a crop sensor for now, full frame sensors make everything much more expensive, and you won't need it for great pictures.



Ok thanks, is a crop sensor also good enough for filming? 

Now the choice for a crop sensor camera it doesn't bother much which one I choose? A Nikon d300, canon 7d they are all fine? I just need to buy a good lens?


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## Edvet

Nigel95 said:


> Are flashlights much better than just normal lighting above the tank


More more light will allow you to use shorter shutter times (freeze fish in place) and smaller apertures ( larger depth of field: pictures will be sharper over a larger area, front and back is sharp)


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## Danny

Taken with my phone for example which has a fixed f/1.7 aperture, no flash needed.


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> More more light will allow you to use shorter shutter times (freeze fish in place) and smaller apertures ( larger depth of field: pictures will be sharper over a larger area, front and back is sharp)



Yup this is exactly what my led floodlights improved my pictures. See the difference between with and w/o flashlights. I was able to shoot with a "better" diafragma.

W/o floodlights


iwagumi 128l eaplc nigel hoevenaar by Nigel H, on Flickr

With floodlights


day 95 forest aquascape by nigel aquascaping by Nigel H, on Flickr

Will the nikon d300 be able to shoot at a higher ISO? for example 800+ and still maintain good picture quality? The main problem with my current compact camera is that I can't turn the ISO higher than 800.


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## Edvet

Nigel95 said:


> Now the choice for a crop sensor camera it doesn't bother much which one I choose? A Nikon d300, canon 7d they are all fine? I just need to buy a good lens?


Not all bodies can film;  most systems can only use lenses made for that system Nikon for Nikon, Canon for Canon, Third party lenses can be used on the system if they are made for it ( SIgma, Tamron etc ) these usually are a bit less expensive in trade for a bit less quality.


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## Edvet

Danny said:


> Taken with my phone for example which has a fixed f/1.7 aperture, no flash needed.


No moving fish and shallow depth of field


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## Danny

Edvet said:


> No moving fish and shallow depth of field


It will be a while before I get any fish in this to take any example shots with a dslr unfortunately but I will as soon as I do

Flash would only create harsh shadows in such a small area, if the lighting being used on the tank isn't bright enough then adding another couple of constant light sources from different angles to avoid shadows would be the way to do it


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## Edvet

Danny said:


> create harsh shadows in such a small area,


or bounce it of the ceiling or a white surface like a polystyrene sheet


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> Not all bodies can film



In that case do I need a more expensive body? Something like canon eos 80d? Or is the canon eos 70d still fine?


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## Danny

Nigel95 said:


> In that case do I need a more expensive body? Something like canon eos 80d? Or is the canon eos 70d still fine?


From my experience of them I would go for a used 7d body, anything under 25k shutter count is basically new anyway and for the price you can get one a real bargain for the quality of camera plus it does film in 1080p HD.

Any body with 12mp+ and HD video will produce basically the same results image wise with the same settings, the lens makes all the difference and is where the true cost and quality of a dslr comes into play.


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## Nigel95

Danny said:


> the lens makes all the difference



I was thinking about this lens. It seems affordable second hand
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/tokina-12-24-4-n15

What is a reasonable price for a canon 7d second hand btw?


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## Danny

Nigel95 said:


> I was thinking about this lens. It seems affordable second hand
> https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/tokina-12-24-4-n15
> 
> What is a reasonable price for a canon 7d second hand btw?


I have no experience with the Tokina lenses so can't say anything on it to be fair, in terms of budget lenses I have used the cheaper Sigma which are pretty good but with Canon the best quality glass are the L range.

Also at 12mm you will get quite a bit of distortion, 35mm is more than wide enough for the average home tank, the Canon 17-55mm 2.8 EFS IS is an amazing wide angle zoom and non L series lens but even second hand about £350/£400 which is the same as the full frame 24-105mm f/4L lens which they have now updated to include IS ( image stabilisation).

If shooting on a tripod IS is not hugely important but handheld can make a big difference.

An average for used 7d is probably about £350 ish.


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## Nigel95

Danny said:


> 24-105mm



One thing is very confusing for me. I have read full tank shots need about:  DX use 18-20mm. and FX use 28-30mm. But if you have a 24-105mm you can't shoot macro photos (but macro lenses usually go like 70 - 105mm?) . For what purpose is the 30 + mm needed?


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## Edvet

Depends on distance and tank size. I have a large tank (200cm). I can use my 12-24 from say 3-4  meters distance, or my 24-85 from 6-7 meters or more (that is to get a full tankshot in one go). With smaller tanks the distance will be shorter.
Alternative could be take multiple shots from a shorter distance and "stitch"them in a software program,


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> I can use my 12-24 from say 3-4 meters distance



Ok so I definitely need a 12-24 mm as I don't have much space on my room.

What do you think about this one Ed?
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/tokina-12-24-4-n15

I am currently trying to make a list so I can hunt second hand for good deals. If anyone knows a good body camera for a nice price post it below: It is important that it can also makes videos.
- Canon 7d
- Canon EOS 70d
- Canon eos 800d
- Canon 700/ 750/ 760D


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## Danny

Nigel95 said:


> One thing is very confusing for me. I have read full tank shots need about:  DX use 18-20mm. and FX use 28-30mm. But if you have a 24-105mm you can't shoot macro photos (but macro lenses usually go like 70 - 105mm?) . For what purpose is the 30 + mm needed?


A FTS could be taken with anything from 8mm to 600mm depending on tank size and distance available from it, anything below 35mm will distort the verticle lines but it isn't really easily noticeable until you get down to about 12mm.

Personally I would go with a 35 or 50mm focal length to keep as true to eye as possible, you may do well to rent a zoom lens to play with the different focal lengths and see what suits your space best.


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## Edvet

Giving advice on an actual lens is always very personal, i might not be bothered by some softness, while you might hate the chromatical  abbberation.
Indeed renting a lens is a good step if it's your first camera. It's also worth your while to go visit Cameranu or Kamera express and spend some hours there.


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## doylecolmdoyle

I use a mk1 7d (can be purchased very cheap second had as they are old now) and 24mm canon pancake lens (again very cheap lens), this makes for a pretty compact cheap DSLR that is good for most situations, tank shots, close shots, portraits, landscape etc. Also recommend the 100mm Canon macro lens.

I am far from a professional, not even a really active hobbiest when it comes to photography, my advice is go second hand and dont over spend, photography gear is expensive!

Here is my flickr, https://www.flickr.com/photos/colmdoyle/ macro shots are taken with a 100mm canon macro, full tank shots the 24mm pancake. Prime lenses are my favourite! Also have a 10 - 20mm wide angle lens that I use for landscape / holiday snaps


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## Nigel95

doylecolmdoyle said:


> I use a mk1 7d (can be purchased very cheap second had as they are old now) and 24mm canon pancake lens (again very cheap lens), this makes for a pretty compact cheap DSLR that is good for most situations, tank shots, close shots, portraits, landscape etc. Also recommend the 100mm Canon macro lens.
> 
> I am far from a professional, not even a really active hobbiest when it comes to photography, my advice is go second hand and dont over spend, photography gear is expensive!
> 
> Here is my flickr, https://www.flickr.com/photos/colmdoyle/ macro shots are taken with a 100mm canon macro, full tank shots the 24mm pancake. Prime lenses are my favourite! Also have a 10 - 20mm wide angle lens that I use for landscape / holiday snaps



what a coincidence I was just on your flickr and sent a pm!

So you still recommend the 7d? If you would sell yours what price what you ask for it?


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## doylecolmdoyle

Nigel95 said:


> what a coincidence I was just on your flickr and sent a pm!
> 
> So you still recommend the 7d? If you would sell yours what price what you ask for it?



I do like the 7d, the mk1 is old, must have came out over 10 - 15 years ago? Still a great camera and perfect for someone wanting to really learn the in's and out of SLR photography, only think it lacks for me is wifi connectivity.

I am actually looking at selling the body, I dont use my camera enough and its a bit big to lug around, I would probably want about $500 AUD for it. Tho have not looked into what the going rate is.

My next camera would be something from the canon eos m series, can still use the lenses I have collected (via an adaptor) and its tiny and has all the modern connectivity features etc


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## Danny

This is a good price, £350 to £400 is the market area.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263331427908


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## Andrew Butler

Seeing as people with some photographic knowledge this might be a good place to ask a question......... How do I stop reflections of myself or other objects from the glass? I do have windows in my room with blinds which even if they're closed sunlight still gets through the sides so I'm guessing this is probably part of the problem - any suggestions aside from getting blackout curtains?


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## Danny

Andrew Butler said:


> Seeing as people with some photographic knowledge this might be a good place to ask a question......... How do I stop reflections of myself or other objects from the glass? I do have windows in my room with blinds which even if they're closed sunlight still gets through the sides so I'm guessing this is probably part of the problem - any suggestions aside from getting blackout curtains?


Take photos at night with all other ambient lights off, tv/room light etc etc.


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## MrHidley

Andrew Butler said:


> Seeing as people with some photographic knowledge this might be a good place to ask a question......... How do I stop reflections of myself or other objects from the glass? I do have windows in my room with blinds which even if they're closed sunlight still gets through the sides so I'm guessing this is probably part of the problem - any suggestions aside from getting blackout curtains?



Use a polarizing filter. Also don't get too caught up on which camera to buy for aquarium photography. The lens is going to be far more important. If you're using an APS-C size senor (you probably will be) i'd look for something with a focal length of around 35mm (50 if you get up getting a full frame camera). New Nikon and Olympus cameras have superb 18-55 kit lenses, not sure about Canon however. Also this all depends on your budget, I use a lot of vintage glass adapted to my Sony A7 to save money, means no autofocus but the images are stellar if you're willing to put in a little more time.


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## Edvet

Just a real quick and dirty example  (btw these all are with a Nikon D300, a Dx camera with a 1.4 enlargement factor ( small CCD makes images look larger, but have less pixels)
1) 50 mm (cheap lens)  with a real large diafragma, fast shutterspeed, handheld: because it's fast it's easy to shoot handheld and be sharp ( no moving unsharpness), just a small depth of field ( due to large diafragma) but takes good tankshots from some distance 




2) 50mm at diafragma 1.4 ( short depth of fiield) and at diafragma 22 (large depth of field)


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## Edvet

12-24 mm at 1) 12 mm ( 14 mm FF equivalent) and 2) 24 mm (32 MM FF equivalent)


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## Edvet

and the 24-85 mm on 1)m 24 mm and 2) 85mm


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## Edvet

and as a last comparison a picture taken with my Samsung S7 from the same distance as the above pairs


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## Nigel95

I think I made my choice:
A canon 700d (affordable and enough on second hand market) with the  pancake EF-S 24mm f 2.8 lens (new)

For macro I still need to decide. Suggestions welcome current list:
EF100mm f/2.8 Macro USM or canon ef-s 60mm f2.8. Which one do you guys recommend? I wanna shoot some pics/videos of shrimp and schooling fish.


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## Edvet

The 60 is for close range really, so the shrimp need to be near the glas. The 100 will give some more range. Can't comment on the quality of Canon stuff.


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## doylecolmdoyle

100mm Macro for sure, I find I can really only get full frame, detailed close up shots shots with my EF100mm f/2.8 Macro USM if the fish / shrimp are closer to the glass. I am tempted to even try some extension rings to try get even closer.


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## Nigel95

Ok but is the 100mm comfortable to shoot pics or is it heavy? 


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## Edvet

This is mine, it's about 1500 gram.
http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/lenses/full-frame/sigma-180mm-f-3.5-apo-ex-dg-hsm-macro-lens


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## Nigel95

Edvet said:


> This is mine, it's about 1500 gram.



And is the 1500 gram doable w/o a tripod?

The 100mm is 600 gram
the 60mm is 335 gram


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## Edvet

I can shoot it handheld but it needs  a lot of light so i can keep the shuttertime down to 1/250 or faster. For instance shooting insects in the sun. For the tank i use a tripod unless i can "lean" on the glass. But faster moving fish is tough, shrimp should be fine.
Chris Lukhaup  shoots a lot of shrimp/ small fish. Maybe you can contact him to see what he uses.


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