# The dreaded Spirogyra!



## Epiphyte (22 Mar 2022)

I've been trying to rid my tanks of algae for about as long as I've had them set up. I think my issue is Spirogyra and I cannot fix it.

*1. Size of tank in litres.*
ADA 75p, approx 150L

*2. Age of the set - up.*
3 months

*3. Filtration.*
Oase Biomaster Thermo 600 full of Seachem Matrix
APS Surface Skimmer
Twinstar Reactor (not a filter I know)
UV Filter

*4. Lighting and duration.*
Chihiros Vivid 2 RGB, approx 35-40% power, 8 hours

*5. Substrate.*
Tropica with ADA Bottom Plus

*6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing.*
In line CO2 diffuser, 4hr before lights to 1hr before lights off. Nice light green drop checker

*7. Fertilizers used & Ratios.*
2hr Aquarist APT 2 Complete - 4ml a day in accordance to bottle instructions.

*8. Water change regime and type.*
50% weekly, RO water re-mineralised to TDS 120 using Salty Shrimp GH/KH+

*9. Plant list + When planted.*
Myriophyllum Guyana
Rotala Wallichii
Pearl Weed
Lots of Anubias
Lots of Buce
Lots of Crypts
Lots of Alternanthera Reineckii "Mini"
Lots of Fissidens
Various terrestrial Pothos cuttings have been recently introduced

*10. Inhabitants.*
Approx 25 Cardinal Tetra
M/F Nannacara pair
M/F Apistogramma pair
8 Otto's
A single Siamese Algae Eater (his buddies thought they'd try flying, unsuccessfully)
An unknown number of Amano Shrimp
Nerite Snails and a never ending population of ramshorn snails, kept somewhat in check by a vicious female Apisto.
- I feed one cube of "super fish tropical mix" frozen food a day to the the tank, I don't believe I am over-feeding but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I have just cleaned the tank out best I can manually with todays water change so I'm unable to get a picture of the tank with the algae on show. I believe it is spirogyra as it's a dark green filamentous algae which doesn't just grow off things, flowing in the water stream (I have some of that algae and it's easy enough to deal with) but it clogs everything, plants are utterly swamped by it sometimes, especially around the rhizome area of epiphytes, in the mosses and in the fine leaves of the stem plants. When you go to remove it it really clings to what it is attached to, it cannot be syphoned up. A toothbrush removes it fairly well but it's nearly impossible to get it all especially with the delicate nature of the stems. Removing it from epiphytes has actually pulled the plant away from the wood (using super glue to bond it) before I've been able to pull the algae off.

I've tried dosing the tank with glutaraldehyde daily but it doesn't seem to make the slightest of difference. I've spot dosed APT Fix (which works wonders on BBA by the way, highly recommended), I've reduced the lights, increased the lights, nothing. I just get the feeling that once it's in my tank it's doing it's best to stay there with the slightest bit left over.

Plants are growing well, new epiphyte growth, stems are needing regular trims. I've had floating plants in the tank a few times in and out but I hate the look and if I'm honest, it didn't seem to make any difference apart from to stifle the growth of the stems where the bunched in the corner of the tank. I've recently taken cuttings of a beautiful Neon Golden Pothos which I'm trying to propagate in the tank which I hope will suck up all the nasties when they grow, but this is yet to happen as they're only a few weeks old in the water and it's a painfully slow process.

Any help would be massively appreciated from those who may have defeated this awful algae as I'm about to lose the will to live with this tank. I'll try get photos soon.


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## GHNelson (23 Mar 2022)

Hi Ian
Thanks for the detailed information
This algae tends to crop up quite suddenly then it gets out of control quickly, it usually rears it ugly head amongst dead or dying leaves and compromised stems that have restricted flow which results in not the best plant growth.
It also can be tangled in floating plant roots.
The problem with this algae is it likes the same nutrients as plants do.

My plan of action would be:
Reduce the lighting to 6 hours per day and reduce the fertilizer by 50% for 4 weeks.
I found the best way to combat this algae is with this product below!








						Easy-Life AlgExit 500ml
					

Anti Algae Treatment for Freshwater Tanks for Most Algae Yypes - Shrimp Safe




					www.pro-shrimp.co.uk
				



Available in most outlets Amazon/Pro Shrimp etc.
It states use it weekly 10ml per 100 litres
I usually do half the recommended doses each day after the first dose!
Do your usual water change then start again.....use it for 4 weeks.
hoggie


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## Stu1407 (23 Mar 2022)

GHNelson said:


> My plan of action would be:
> Reduce the lighting to 6 hours per day


Just to reiterate what hoggie says. I have a Vivid 2 over my tank and certainly to start with 8 hours even at 35% to 40% is too much. Start at 6 and increase to 7 at the end of four weeks. You can then increase the power in small increments over another four to six weeks if you have the algae under control. I started like this and have no visible algae problem and thriving plants. Power now at 70% which in my case seems about right.

Having come from the marine hobby were flow is vital and it may not be the most elegant solution, I have an AI Nero 5 (there is a Nero 3 as well) at the other end of the tank to my C02. Even dialled down this provides more than enough wide flow to eliminate dead spots. It also ensure that the injected C02 gets pushed along the lower half or the tank and doesn't just rise straight up. 

Hope this helps.


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## Hanuman (23 Mar 2022)

Can you please provide a picture of your tank? It doesn't matter if we don't see the algae. What matters is the general setup.


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## tiger15 (23 Mar 2022)

I have struggled with Spirogyea in my window sill bowl and tried glutaldhyde with no luck until I used API Algaefix.   API Algaefix is sold for pond algae control and is effective against Spirorogyra and a range of other algae, but it is a shrimp killer.            Glut is shrimp safe but is effective against bba and not much else.









						Algaefix, by API
					

I have recently done a few test on 3 tanks with this product. Like ALL algae killers in a bottle, this does NOT grow plants.  So it does not solve the root problem. Nor will make the tank look great with thriving growth. This point cannot be stressed enough.  That said, once the root issue...




					barrreport.com


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## Epiphyte (23 Mar 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Hi Ian
> Thanks for the detailed information
> This algae tends to crop up quite suddenly then it gets out of control quickly, it usually rears it ugly head amongst dead or dying leaves and compromised stems that have restricted flow which results in not the best plant growth.
> It also can be tangled in floating plant roots.
> ...



Thanks Hoggie, these were questions you listed out in a recent algae thread so I thought I'd just copy them across as they all seemed sensible.

I did previously have some amazon frogbit in the tank but the long roots just filled algae so I got rid of them. I've just got some other floating plants from AG today that I've thrown in the top but I don't imagine it'll make any difference.

I've done some of your action plan however, lights down to 6hrs and reduced the ferts. I'll take a look at the algexit too if I can find some locally as it's not on Amazon prime and ProShimps P&P will cost more than the product itself!



Stu1407 said:


> Just to reiterate what hoggie says. I have a Vivid 2 over my tank and certainly to start with 8 hours even at 35% to 40% is too much. Start at 6 and increase to 7 at the end of four weeks. You can then increase the power in small increments over another four to six weeks if you have the algae under control. I started like this and have no visible algae problem and thriving plants. Power now at 70% which in my case seems about right.
> 
> Having come from the marine hobby were flow is vital and it may not be the most elegant solution, I have an AI Nero 5 (there is a Nero 3 as well) at the other end of the tank to my C02. Even dialled down this provides more than enough wide flow to eliminate dead spots. It also ensure that the injected C02 gets pushed along the lower half or the tank and doesn't just rise straight up.
> 
> Hope this helps.



Here is the screenshot of my Vivid settings:




It's been like this from day 1 in the tank and seems a decent brightness, but nothing like as nice as well established show tanks. I'd be interested in seeing your settings too.

Flow wise, I was hoping the biomaster and skimmer would be enough. I do have a power head but I'm reluctant to add it as I know the flow will be a bit too much.



Hanuman said:


> Can you please provide a picture of your tank? It doesn't matter if we don't see the algae. What matters is the general setup.



Here you go....




And even over night this algae decided to appear


 





tiger15 said:


> I have struggled with Spirogyea in my window sill bowl and tried glutaldhyde with no luck until I used API Algaefix.   API Algaefix is sold for pond algae control and is effective against Spirorogyra and a range of other algae, but it is a shrimp killer.            Glut is shrimp safe but is effective against bba and not much else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting, I know spirogyra is common in ponds and there are plenty of treatments, but I'm not brave enough to try any of them in my aquarium. I've only got a few amano's in the tank, I'm sure I can fish them out and use Algaefix if needs be.


Also, if people ever needed proof that Twinstar's dont work, here is algae growing on mine


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## Hanuman (24 Mar 2022)

Epiphyte said:


> *6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing.*
> in line CO2 diffuser, 4hr before lights to 1hr before lights off. Nice light green drop checker


DC color doesn't say much in my opinion as placement can give you night and day results. Why so much time prior lights on? 1 to 2 hours should suffice. Make a CO2 profile and see how your PH evolves during the day. In general terms you would want to have a 1 PH drop from degassed water to full saturated water. This 1PH drop equates more less to 30ppm CO2 and should be targeted preferably within 1 to 2 hours max after CO2 goes on. Even if you don't go for 30ppm CO2 what you don't want is for CO2 to start dipping when lights go on.


Epiphyte said:


> *8. Water change regime and type.*
> 50% weekly, RO water re-mineralised to TDS 120 using Salty Shrimp GH/KH+


What is your GH/KH?


Epiphyte said:


> *9. Plant list + When planted.*
> Myriophyllum Guyana
> Rotala Wallichii
> Pearl Weed
> ...


Mostly slow growers and you also have some woods in there which are probably releasing organics in the water. That combination + the 8 hours of light + possibly your CO2 not dialed in properly can be a trigger. Here is my tank. As you can see mostly (95%) epiphytes plants, WRGB 1 (~80%), dosing APT EI ( I used to have more stems in there but still no algae - or extremely minimal - even now), 8.5h of light.









Keep your tank clean and harass the algae but also make sure your water circulation is right. I see you have the lilly pipe and the skimmer on the same side but what seems at opposite ends. Not sure I would so this. I would presonnaly place the skimmer on the opposite side of the tanks to have a good water circular motion. Also take note how I bent the output of the skimmer upward. This allows better gas exchange by bringing CO2 rich deep water layers to the surface and moving O2 rich surface layers to the bottom. This allows me in exchange to pump even more CO2.
Aslo the drop checker you see in my tank has no other purpose other than letting me know if the CO2 tank is empty or that something is wrong with CO2. I absolutely do not rely on the color to assess the amount of CO2 in the tank. If when lights turn on it hasn't changed colors from dark green to some lighter shade of green or yellow then I know I need to check my Co2 because it probably is off for some unexpected reason or something happened with the CO2 equipment/line.



Epiphyte said:


> Also, if people ever needed proof that Twinstar's dont work, here is algae growing on mine


Never believed a single second that this device is useful against algae. I use it exclusively for increased oxygenation of the water column.


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## GHNelson (24 Mar 2022)

Hi Ian
Obviously, you have various types of algae issues going on!
I'm not a fan of the light substrate, it reflects a lot of light.

What's your maintenance regime on the Oase filter like? Have you cleaned it recently?
You said you have Matrix in the filter how much? No sponges?
Have you checked your water parameters recently?
Especially for Nitrate and Phosphate!
2hr Aquarist APT 2 Complete can't find any info on this fertilizer!
hoggie


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## Hanuman (24 Mar 2022)

GHNelson said:


> 2hr Aquarist APT 2 Complete can't find any info on this fertilizer!


It's pretty mainstream by now: < APT 3 >



It is also in the IFC calculator:


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## Stu1407 (24 Mar 2022)

Epiphyte said:


> It's been like this from day 1 in the tank and seems a decent brightness, but nothing like as nice as well established show tanks. I'd be interested in seeing your settings too.
> 
> Flow wise, I was hoping the biomaster and skimmer would be enough. I do have a power head but I'm reluctant to add it as I know the flow will be a bit too much.


My settings are literally 75, 75, 75 but that's personal taste. It did take me around two months to get there as I was cautious about too much light and a resultant algae problem.
Re the power head, if you went down that route there are loads of fully controllable ones using apps or their own controllers, Jeboa, Tunze, Vortech (if money's no object ) Nero, Aqami, Maxspect Gyre to name a few. Although it intrudes into the tank I wouldn't be without one.

As for the Twinstar, has it helped keep my tank free of algae, I have no idea. Would I take  it out definitely not but don't ask for any evidence why not. In my case I operate on the principle of, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."


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## Epiphyte (24 Mar 2022)

Hanuman said:


> DC color doesn't say much in my opinion as placement can give you night and day results. Why so much time prior lights on? 1 to 2 hours should suffice. Make a CO2 profile and see how your PH evolves during the day. In general terms you would want to have a 1 PH drop from degassed water to full saturated water. This 1PH drop equates more less to 30ppm CO2 and should be targeted preferably within 1 to 2 hours max after CO2 goes on. Even if you don't go for 30ppm CO2 what you don't want is for CO2 to start dipping when lights go on.
> 
> What is your GH/KH?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed reply @Hanuman. I've been long considering a proper pH sensor as I don't particularly like the "low tech" approach of a drop checker. I know @Courtneybst has been using one which name escapes me which I'm very tempted by.

My skimmer is actually pretty much right next to the filter inlet, which in turn is right next to the outlet, so it does add to the general flow of the water. I would normally put it in the back rear of the tank (to keep it hidden too) but I have found in the past that the extra flow of the skimmer directly into the stem plants can cause them to get all tangled up. If there is a way to get around this I'd love to find out!

I quite agree with the efficacy of the Twinstar, however I just love the way it looks, so I bought one. 



GHNelson said:


> View attachment 184987
> Hi Ian
> Obviously, you have various types of algae issues going on!
> I'm not a fan of the light substrate, it reflects a lot of light.
> ...



Thanks again for the reply Hoggie. Yep, lots of algae, most I have had come in and out of control over time, but this Spiro has been persistent.

Oase pre-filter (orange sponges) are cleaned weekly along side water changes. The internals of the filter is 2 trays of original Oase filter media, 2 trays of Seachem Matrix and a blue filter sponge on the top layer.

Honestly I couldn't tell you when I last checked the water. I know that's lazy but the filter has been cycled for around 14 months now so I guess I rely on my water changes to ensure it's kept clean. One of my fish, sadly a mature Royal Farowella, decided to get stuck and died which I didn't find for an unknown time. This naturally would have caused an ammonia spike, but I noticed no change in algae.

I will test my water today and report back.



Stu1407 said:


> My settings are literally 75, 75, 75 but that's personal taste. It did take me around two months to get there as I was cautious about too much light and a resultant algae problem.
> Re the power head, if you went down that route there are loads of fully controllable ones using apps or their own controllers, Jeboa, Tunze, Vortech (if money's no object ) Nero, Aqami, Maxspect Gyre to name a few. Although it intrudes into the tank I wouldn't be without one.
> 
> As for the Twinstar, has it helped keep my tank free of algae, I have no idea. Would I take  it out definitely not but don't ask for any evidence why not. In my case I operate on the principle of, "if it ain't broke don't fix it."



I think the Twinstar is a bit of snake oil but as mentioned above I like the look of it, plus more oxygen cannot be a bad thing?

I've turned the photo period down now with the above settings, fingers crossed it'll help


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## Courtneybst (24 Mar 2022)

Intaqo Controller @Epiphyte


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## Epiphyte (25 Mar 2022)

Water parameters measured 3 days after 50% water change, using 100% RO, remineralised to TDS 120 using salty shrimp. These are all the test kits I own, so can't test any other parameters at this time.

GH: 10
KH: 7.5

Phosphate: around 0.03-0.05ppm (dubious as the kit colour chart isn't great)
Silicate: As good as zero.

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm

pH with green drop checker: 6.6


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## GHNelson (25 Mar 2022)

Hi Ian
The nitrate is too low and phosphate!
Aim for 15ppm to 25ppm Nitrate
Cut your RO with Hemel Tapwater with a ratio............ RO 75% to 25% tapwater!
This will give you about 15ppm to 20ppm Nitrate approximately!
Here is an image of a Rotala sp with clear indications of poor growth due to Low Nitrate and Phosphate levels!
You can see where the recovery is when I increased both nutrients into the water column.
The nitrate level was probably 5ppm or lower!
You can actually see very fine Hair Algae around that stunted poor growth!



hoggie


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## GHNelson (25 Mar 2022)

Epiphyte said:


> The internals of the filter is 2 trays of original Oase filter media, 2 trays of Seachem Matrix and a blue filter sponge on the top layer.


I would replace the 2 trays of media with sponges for better filtration!


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