# 120cm. Green Neons Fly



## jay (15 Jul 2011)

Hey everyone! Been a while since I've shown any of my tanks but thought I'd show this one as id like some feedback and advice on it since I've been having a nightmare with algae issues and plants not growing. Basically, it was like this up until a couple of days ago..




Dirty, murky, algae covered plants that were not growing. (sorry about the picture. iPhone)
Substrate is Columbo. Top layer turned to mush pretty quickly. Not happy. Pressurised Co2 and easy carbo added. Tropics PN+ ferts. 5ml a day. Aaaaaaanyway. Changed it up a bit mainly because I hated it and the moss on the wood was a mess. So it now looks like this. 



I need more plants. 

Thanks.


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## Johno2090 (15 Jul 2011)

*120cm. Nearly given up.*

I dose 30ml in my 100cm 200ltr tank dosing 5ml is prob the main reason your getting algae. Especially with pressurised co2 and I'm assuming good lighting which all lead to increased nutrient uptake. 

I'm sure someone else will pop over and confirm my suspicions soon


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## jay (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

I was doing 20ml but still getting algae. I dropped it down over last couple days after rearranging it since there is such a low plant mass. Sorry, should been more specific. The lighting is 2 x 54w Osram t5's. Raised about 2 foot above the tank. Co2 is about 2-3 bubbles per second.


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## Piece-of-fish (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Hi, your light is just right. I would probably put powerhead on the same side as filter inlet blowing horizontally across the tank to create circular flow. Ferts sound about right as well. CO2 however is too low i would say.  I would run 4-7 bubbles depending on bubble counter for the tank of this size.
Icrease the plant mass if you can. 
Do not give up, you will get there.
Your hardscape is beautiful and well balanced. Really like it. Will be pity if you give up.


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## jay (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Yeah I've increased the bubbles to around that this morning and last night I was reading a post from ceg about the one flow direction so I moved the hardware around. Like this?



Dosed 6ml easy carbo. 20ml TPN+  drop checker is lime green/yellow. It's low near the substrate on the other side of the spraybar and pump. I really need to get out and get more plants, even just to help with balancing out the tanks nutrient cycle etc. I do have myriophyllum mattogrossense behind each wood mound.


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## Piece-of-fish (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Yes regarding flow 
I would dose at least 25-30ml of carbo as well for a few days. I am dosing up to 50-70ml in 300L  when need to get rid of algae   
What algae do you have in there btw?


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## jay (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Woah! That's a lot of easycarbo. Does it not affect the inhabitants at all? I've got green neons, checkerboard cichlids and amano shrimp. 
In terms of algae, it's the same usual culprits. Staghorn. BGA, anything related to poor/fluctuating Co2 levels.


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## Piece-of-fish (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Whats the size of the tank?
Staghorn is one of the easiest to get rid of so its not that bad.


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## jay (15 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

48L x 15W x 18H. Inches obviously. The staghorn hasn't been too bad lately, but the beard algae was tufting around EVERYWHERE!! Wood was covered. So just yanked it out and scrubbed it with a metal plumbers brush. Also, Ive been noticing that my plants stop pearling after a week or so after set up on my last couple of 'scapes. Know it sounds terrible to the EI crew but the only time ive had great consistent growth was with the ADA substrate and fert system.


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## Piece-of-fish (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

25-30ml with no problem. You just need more plants. All will be ok.
I will say one more time,second hardscape is great.


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## Piece-of-fish (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

And water changes   as often as you can...


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## Gary Nelson (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Keep at it, it will pay off - the advice off the guys on here is second to none! helped me loads


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## jay (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Well I've just got some HC Cuba and Rotala. Probably add some crypts from my othe tank. Yeah the water changes or lack of has always been a problem for me and I know they do wonders. I will give the easycarbo overdosing a go along with 20ml TPN+. 1/2 tank waterchamge every week. Or 1/4 twice a week. Whatever I can do. I it works out and blooms the plants and no algae, I'll then start to bring it all back to slow it down am make things easier for me. Thanks for the advice fella.


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## Piece-of-fish (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

You dont want to slow down  50% changes a week. Thats about a  minimum you can go 
Do 2-3 if you can for 3-4 weeks now.


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## jay (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Half a tank 2-3 times a week? Doesn't that make the Co2 concentration fluctuate?


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## jay (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Well here it is getting a 50% WC after getting some new planting. HC "Cuba" dotted around front and on the rear middle hill, Rotala rotundifolia behind the larger leaved myrophilliam(sp?). Some crypt varieties around the wood and weeping moss stuffed in a few nooks. 




Again, sorry about the picture quality. Theyre all from my iPhone. 

Thanks.


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## Piece-of-fish (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

For co2 you turn it on 2 hours before lights (i do it 3 hours before) and it is enough time to saturate. Water changes will only help you


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## jay (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

My Co2 is on 24/7. No solenoid I'm afraid. That's my next purchase though as it ploughshare through gas that's not needed. Do you think this constant co2 and obviously high levels at lights out is triggering algae?


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## Westyggx (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Keep at it Jay i like this tank looks really nice will keep an eye on it.


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## Piece-of-fish (16 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*

Nope, i have heard that 24/7 is even better. Have tried once and it was one of the cleanest tanks i had. Might be due to other reasons though.
P.S. Twice actually. But both times without fish for the most of the tanks life. Fish when added was fine. Just for the record.


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## jay (17 Jul 2011)

*Re: 120cm. Nearly given up.*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> Keep at it Jay i like this tank looks really nice will keep an eye on it.



Thanks very much, and yes I plan to keep this one for a very long time. Really happy with the hardscape. Just need to het my plant growing back on track.   



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Nope, i have heard that 24/7 is even better. Have tried once and it was one of the cleanest tanks i had. Might be due to other reasons though.
> P.S. Twice actually. But both times without fish for the most of the tanks life. Fish when added was fine. Just for the record.


My fish have never had a problem with it either. Except for a malfunctioning regulator which gassed all my fish two years ago. Anyway, not entirely sure about the spraybar on the left side panel. Thinking I may change it to single outlet circulating it the same direction as the pump. It seems to be preventing the flow from circulating right around across the back of the tank and back to the inlet.


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## jay (18 Jul 2011)

Ok. So I've got a 7 hour photoperiod with 2 x 54W T5's at just over a foot off the water surface. Co2 at about 3-4 bubbles per second 24/7 with minimal surface agitation. Dozing about 15-20ml easy carbo and 30ml TPN+ every day. Half a tank of water is removed every 3 days.... Still no sign of pearling and I'm also spotting some algae re-appear. 




I like this central area here.


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## Piece-of-fish (19 Jul 2011)

You wont probably get pearling with this lighting unless you lower it all way down which i would advice to do only when things stabilise.
Saying i would dose about 50ml of easycarbo i meant for a short period of time only (4-7days). This is a very nasty chemical and I try to avoid using it too often. I would start with something as 25ml and increase the dose until i see all algae such as bba staghorn etc. die. Some would spotdose only but me too lazy    I have one spot which has the same dimensions as the tank   
Keep this routine for 3-4 weeks and you will notice significant improvement   
Its not a rocket science.


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## jay (19 Jul 2011)

Yeah I figured the lighting wasn't close enough for the pearling. But I'd rather keep it where it is an get steady growth than have it lower and have less margin for any errors in co2 or dosing. Going to spot dose a couple of areas tonight after a WC I think. I have seen the HC Cuba starting to creep already and the myrophilliam(sp?) is shooting up. As long as it's growing, I can live without the pearls.  
Also, I've noticed the algae is really easy to brush off now. Before, it was a real pain. Now I just run the tweezers over it and it falls off. Guessing the easy carbo is doing something. 

Thanks.


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## jay (26 Jul 2011)

Well, less than 2 weeks in and it's still fairly pretty. Wish I had time to set up my camera for some proper shots but I'm a super busy boy nowadays. I'm having to do everything via my iPhone. Anyway... This is how it looks as of tonight.


 gradually lowering my light as I'm a sucker for good pearling. I'm still getting little spots of brush algae with my last flow configuration so I'm going back to one that saw me well a few years back.


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## Westyggx (26 Jul 2011)

Looks really nice mate can see the growth, hows the algae?


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## jay (27 Jul 2011)

Not too bad mate. But not spotless unfortunately. I was hoping to keep it as just the two stems I have now, but I think I'm gonna have to just throw an absolute ton in there and let them soak up a load of nutrients to help balance it all out. Then I can 'scape how I want it. Got a little bit of everything in terms of algae. Bit of light green hair on the moss. Moss just doesn't want to grow!!


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## flygja (27 Jul 2011)

I noticed that your filter's outflow and position of the Koralia are conflicting each other. The filter's outflow will shoot water across the front glass and round the back, but the Koralia is directing water towards the front glass in the opposite direction. Is there a reason that they are positioned like this?


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## jay (27 Jul 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> I noticed that your filter's outflow and position of the Koralia are conflicting each other. The filter's outflow will shoot water across the front glass and round the back, but the Koralia is directing water towards the front glass in the opposite direction. Is there a reason that they are positioned like this?



It only looks like that. The filter outflow is actually aimed at the back glass flowing to the Koralia. So there is constant left to right flow. I did have a spraybar and Koralia all aimed at one end of the tank but Co2 wasn't getting to all of the tank. I've had this configuration in a prvious 'scape and had great results.


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## dw1305 (27 Jul 2011)

Hi all,


> I was hoping to keep it as just the two stems I have now, but I think I'm gonna have to just throw an absolute ton in there and let them soak up a load of nutrients to help balance it all out.


 I would, I'd add some fast growing stems and then slowly reduce them as the permanent plants grow.

cheers Darrel


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## jay (28 Jul 2011)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > I was hoping to keep it as just the two stems I have now, but I think I'm gonna have to just throw an absolute ton in there and let them soak up a load of nutrients to help balance it all out.
> ...


Well that's what I've done today. Plant list that i planted half hour ago...

2 x bacopa Australis for the dark corners
2 x rotala sp. Green 
Polygonum sp. 
Pogostemon erectus
And something else I just can't remember.


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## jay (30 Jul 2011)

Been a busy boy today. Got 20mm outer diameter clear acrylic tubing, a heat gun, pipe bender and sand. Created this after plugging the end and blowing. 



20mm pipe is bigger than the hose to my filter so I heated the end and stretch it over. 



So here it is. Not the greatest of lily pipes, but its creating great flow and is seriously inconspicuous in the tank. 



Love it. LOVE IT!! 
Next up, the intake.


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## Alastair (30 Jul 2011)

Looks great your Lilly pipe mate. Tanks looking really nice too


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## jay (31 Jul 2011)

Thanks very much Alastair. Appreciated. Done the intake also. Just crimped the end together and willsand it down later. Then sawed some slices up the tube. Looks ok and does the job!! Really can't get over how nice it makes the whole tank with no horrible green tubes in there. Just broke down my 80cm tank so have a spare Fluval 405 external that I'm going to put on this tank. Lucky I brought extra acrylic tubing. Extra set of "lily" pipes for that  then I can remove the Koralia.


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## Alastair (1 Aug 2011)

jobs a gooden then. the clear outlet and intake make a big difference, must say though, i just noticed your older pics of this tank on ASW, it looked amazing mate. shame it didnt stay  like that


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## jay (1 Aug 2011)

Yeah I did love that. Still got all that wood so may go back to that at a later date. Really feeling that style more than the landscaped look lately.


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## Alastair (1 Aug 2011)

not thats this scape doesnt look good as it does ha ha. but i did love the other scape you did too


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## jay (26 Aug 2011)

Been a little while since my last update. This is how it looks as of tonight. 



More sand, less light. Got rid of the moss all over the wood as it was just gathering algae. Added some crypts around the vase of the wood and a few moss stones. The stems are growing, but seem to die whenever I trim them down. 10ml daily tpn+ dosing.


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## jay (28 Aug 2011)

Also throwing in half a teaspoon of KPo4 and TRACE. 50% water change twice a week. 



Not happy with the Unipac Maui sand. Far too bright for this layout I think. May suck it out am stump up for some ADA stuff. What you guys think?


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## George Farmer (28 Aug 2011)

The Maui does contrast a lot with the remaining layout.  Fiji is another option available from Unipac that may be more suitable.  I used it in this layout. There's also Samoa that's a shade darker.


partial by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## jay (5 Oct 2011)

It's changed a little. Thanks for the sand suggestion, George. I actually have gone for a mass of Fiji sand. Lots of moss. Cut the stems right down also. Was getting lots of BBA on the hardscape so I've purchased a new regulator and raised the lights about 2 foot off the tank surface. This should lessen the need for perfect saturation.  Still dosing dry powders every couple days. Half tank water change every week.


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## jay (17 Oct 2011)

Still going strong. Everything except algae is growing. Added eleocharis acicularis to both far sides and back middle. Runners after a couple days!! My light is about 2ft off the water surface! Two 4th t5 tubes only. 8 hours a day.

Thanks.


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## Piece-of-fish (17 Oct 2011)

Congratulations, you are on the right track now


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## viktorlantos (17 Oct 2011)

wow this looks amazing with that moss on the bottom of the wood. Really nice tank, the foreground is perfect, only the background need to be adjusted to give a better impression.


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## Alastair (18 Oct 2011)

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> wow this looks amazing with that moss on the bottom of the wood. Really nice tank, the foreground is perfect, only the background need to be adjusted to give a better impression.



I totally agree, tank looks great mate, I reckon with some nice stems to add hight rear left and rear right it will be even better


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## jay (18 Oct 2011)

Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Congratulations, you are on the right track now


Thanks very much. Yeah I believe I am now. I've added some amazon frogbit on the surface, but I think it's soaking up all the nutrients before anything else has the chance. Is this possible? It is rather lean dosing. Also, I think it's restricting flow as over the last couple of days I've noticed a lot of surface film. 



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> wow this looks amazing with that moss on the bottom of the wood. Really nice tank, the foreground is perfect...


Thanks you Victor. Really appreciate it. I must say the moss banks on the wood mounds are my favourite piece of 'scaping I've ever done.



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> I totally agree, tank looks great mate, I reckon with some nice stems to add hight rear left and rear right it will be even better


Yes Alastair, I fully agree too. I've currently got some myriophyllum mattogrossense, hygrophilla polysperma and rotala rotundefolia (sorry about the spellings) on each rear side, but I keep hacking them back to try and get a dense look, then I'll let them grow a bit more.
More pics soon, with my dslr. I know these iPhone pics are terrible but I don't get much time to upload pics on laptop. 

Thanks all.


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## flygja (19 Oct 2011)

How do you keep your white sand so white? It's really beautiful... makes me regret not using more moss in a previous scape of mine.


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## jay (19 Oct 2011)

flygja said:
			
		

> How do you keep your white sand so white? It's really beautiful... makes me regret not using more moss in a previous scape of mine.


Well I've always attributed sand discolouration to dirty filters and bright light. For this set up, the 2 t5 bulbs are nearly 2 feet off the top of the water surface, only on for 7 hours a day. Also, this sand is a nice natural colour to it. Unipac Fiji.


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