# Eheim Liquidoser



## CeeBee (14 May 2009)

I've decided to give this a try and it arrived this morning (thanks Jim and Graeme).  The fact that it should be positioned on the hood is the first minor hurdle, because I don't have one.  So, I'm going to place it on the lighting frame and gaffa tape it on.

Please would someone help me figure out the dosing though?  
The reservoir holds 70mls.   
You can have (I think - am still playing with it) up to 4 dosing events per day - each of which can provide 2 x 0.5 ml - so 4ml per day (The destructions say that it doses between 0.5 and 1ml per time, but I've tested it several times and it's only given my 0.5 each time)

I'm only going to use this whilst I'm on holiday.  It might also get used when I'm assigned to work away from home - usually Mon-Fri as my partner like to look at the tank, but his interest stops there.

The things I'm struggling with are; 
Should I use it to dose macros or micros?
What concentrations would I need (at 4mls per day, I could run it for 17 days.  I'll be away for 8 days for this holiday)

The tank is 155l - I use EI dosing.  I've recently increased the dosing a little because my C02 is quite high and I've noticed the plants aren't looking as healthy since I increased it.

Potassium Nitrate - 1/2 tsp 3 times per week
Mono Potassium Phosphate - 1/8 tsp 3 times per week
Magnesium (the ratio of magnesium to calcium is very low in the tap water) - 1/8 tsp 3 times per week
Trace Elements mix - 1/4 tsp 3 times per week

I dose the first 3 together and the trace on a alternate days.
I have high GH from the tap, so I've never bothered with a booster.

The doses I list are all approximate and I'm probably doing it all wrong - so please be gentle   
When I go away, I'll cut my lighting period to 5 hours and my C02 to 4 hours.


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## ceg4048 (14 May 2009)

Well, I think it's a really bad idea to try something for the first time when you're not present, but there seems little choice if your partner refuses to participate. Wouldn't it be easier to pre-mix the powders and to have them simply throw the mixes in a couple times?

In any case there should never, ever be a question of whether to choose between macro and micro. That's like choosing between a sirloin steak and a vitamin pill. It's a no contest that NPK are thousands of times more important than Iron or Magnesium. It's not even close.

For 8 days, at reduced lighting and reduced CO2, I would only add 2 or 3 doses worth of powder. With only 70 ml of water I would think you'd have difficulty dissolving much powder so this is a bit of a gray area.

You might try a teaspoon of KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon KH2PO4 and forget the rest of the powders. For this size tank you'd really want to have either a larger reservoir or use multiple dosers.

Cheers,


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## Superman (14 May 2009)

I think for the levels that you'll require to dose, you'll have trouble dissolving that in the water to fit in the liquidoser.
I dose 50mls per day and sometimes struggle to get an suggested EIx1.2 amount into the water for a 180ltr size tank!


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## CeeBee (14 May 2009)

Thanks, Ceg - I was expecting a bit of a telling off - my schemes are often ill conceived.  They always seem like such a good idea at the time - I then repent and reconsider at my leisure (usually whilst trying to remedy the havoc I've caused). 

Right - NPK it is.  I've got 3 weeks to experiment before I go away.  This time, it's a holiday, so there won't be anyone to take care of the tank.  I'll give your suggested formula a try and see how I get on.  Saturday is water change day, so I'll try the regime for a week (including cutting down C02 and light).  Then I'll have a further 2 weeks to see what happens and make a decision on what to do before I go away for real.  

I'll see how I get on dissolving the powders tonight / tomorrow, ready for Saturday.  If I can't get a decent dissolved solution, at least I'll know before Saturday.

If I get an away assignment - refusal to participate may not be an option, at least not one he wants to seriously consider.  If I get sent overseas, he'll have the water changes to contend with too


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## CeeBee (14 May 2009)

Superman said:
			
		

> I think for the levels that you'll require to dose, you'll have trouble dissolving that in the water to fit in the liquidoser.
> I dose 50mls per day and sometimes struggle to get an suggested EIx1.2 amount into the water for a 180ltr size tank!



You could be correct, I'm not really very practiced with all of this - which probably shows!

I usually dissolve the daily powders I want to dose in a very small amount of tank water and then throw it straight in the tank.  I'm going to try making up a solution this evening and see what happens.  

If it turns out to be a totally duff idea, I'll hide the doser at the back of the cabinet and hope he forgets that I insisted it was a great plan!  Actually, probably better to fill it with water and pretend that it's dosing  :idea:


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## LondonDragon (14 May 2009)

Would have been best if you followed this route: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5024

Would cost a little more but would be best for what you need.


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## CeeBee (15 May 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Would have been best if you......


 
I'm so familiar with those words, LD   

On well, the only thing to do is give it a go and see what happens.  

I'm thinking that I must have missed something very fundamental though - the thing about being able to dissolve enough powders into 70 ml.  I did t teaspoon of KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon KH2PO4 last night, gave it a shake or two and it's all dissolved.  I've got it sitting here on my desk, so I've checked it again this morning to see if anything had settled and it's definitely all dissolved.  I reckon I could get the same in again and more.  Am I missing the point?  

Please excuse me asking stupid questions - I feel ever so embarrassed.


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## LondonDragon (15 May 2009)

I am no expert on the EI but it could be too much powder disolved in too little water, I assume.

You could always use TPN+, this might just be enough for you to dose while you are away, and no need to worry about mixing formulas.


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## CeeBee (15 May 2009)

Thanks LD - we're going to go up to TGM on Sunday, so maybe I'll get some pre-mixed that I can use whilst we're away.

Thanks for responding, I do appreciate it.


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2009)

Err, wait a minute; If you were able to dissolve the powders in your 70ml of water then I see no reason whatsoever to then go out and buy something more expensive which has a much lower concentration than what you just produced. That makes no sense.   In fact the dosage, based on 4 ml per day, was to be added to 38ml so that the same amount of powder mixed 70 ml is only half the concentration. If you can dissolve more powder in 70 ml then you can do that as well....

Again, this is not a big deal if you are lowering the light and lowering the CO2.

Cheers,


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## CeeBee (15 May 2009)

I've still got my little jar here on my desk - I've added another tsp of KNO3 and 1/2 teaspoon KH2PO4 and still, I could get loads more in there - hence my question about whether or not I was missing something fundamental.

I don't know what I'm doing <bangs head on desk>.

How about I mix 3 tsp of KN03 and 1.5 tsp of KH2P04? (I could get more in, if that would help?)  Would it be a bad thing to add .5 tsp of magnesium too?

Then, I'll set the doser to do 4ml per day for 8 days (out of a full 70 ml res).  If I've managed to mix the full weekly dose of macros, should I still decrease my lighting and C02 by half?

Sorry Ceg - I'm not purposely trying to do your head in.


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2009)

CeeBee said:
			
		

> Sorry Ceg - I'm not purposely trying to do your head in.


OK, well that's good to know. Sometimes I think I'm being attacked by some kind of cerebral probe as a prelude to a Romulan invasion across The Neutral Zone.  

Here's the thing; If you're going to be away then the basic premise ought to be that you will turn down the lights and CO2. This provides a margin of error. For example, what if your CO2 fails? If CO2 fails while you're away then it would be safer to have the lighting low. The same story if the liquidoser fails. So if we assume that our default mode of operation for holiday travel will be lower light and lower CO2 then that's the way we should test it this week. I'd only do the full light/full CO2 scenario while I'm at home. That way it's easy to see any weaknesses and to make any adjustments.

If you can adequately dissolve 3 tsp KNO3 1.4 tsp KH2PO4 and .5 tsp MgSO4 in 70L then try that with the lowered energy levels and see what happens. You may find for example that overnight when the temperature drops a bit, some of the powder might precipitate out of solution or may clog the doser. This would mean that you'd have to lower the concentration. A million different silly things could happen so I'd start testing this configuration first. Keep it going until you have full confidence that it works. Then you can leave without any worries. :idea: 

Cheers,


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## CeeBee (15 May 2009)

Well, I've done my water change today because I'm heading off for the weekend with the view of attending TGM on Sunday, so I'll set up the doser on my return.

I'll make up the solution in the morning before I leave.

Again, I apologise for being naive about all of this Ceg.  I know I'm not exercising much common sense about things, but it's still a dark art to me at the moment.  

I'm more Tribble than Romulan if that helps?


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## ceg4048 (15 May 2009)

Yeah, that's the trouble with Tribbles, remember?....  

Cheers,


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## neil1973 (18 May 2009)

Use the liquidoser Iâ€™m sure itâ€™ll be fine.
Assuming the liquidoser is supplying 4ml per day then here are some doses in ppm per day that will be achieved by adding various amounts of powders to 70ml of water:
10g potassium nitrate in 70ml water = 2.26ppm NO3 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)
15g potassium nitrate in 70ml water = 3.39ppm NO3 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)
20g potassium nitrate in 70ml water = 4.52ppm NO3 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)
2g potassium phosphate in 70ml water = 0.51ppm PO4 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)
3g potassium phosphate in 70ml water = 0.77ppm PO4 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)
4g potassium phosphate in 70ml water = 1.03ppm PO4 per day (4ml dose in 155L tank)

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Neil


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## CeeBee (18 May 2009)

Thanks Neil - that's brilliant - much appreciated!

I didn't get around to setting it up yesterday (I learned that booking weekend accommodation over a public house is a double edged sword) - so I'm changing the lighting and C02 timers tonight.  I've set all the times on the doser - so hopefully I'll be all set tomorrow.


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## CeeBee (18 Jun 2009)

Well, I jessed out and decided not to use the liquidoser whilst I was away - just cut down the lighting and C02 by 50%.  I was very pleased to come home to healthy looking plants and fish - so thanks for the advice, I won't worry so much next time.

I'll have to see if I can find a good use for that doser now


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