# Jimbooo's 450L / 100G high tech journal



## James Flexton (25 Sep 2007)

Hi Gang,

Well here i am on day one of a long awaited project. apparently my Vision 450 will arrive on a delivery van all the way from Liverpool sometime between 1200 and 1800 today.

so far i have spent Â£55 on 3 juwel backing tiles and a tube of silicon. plus Â£630 for the tank and stand from here http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/erol.html#19972X0

on the shopping list is the following

- twin T5 ballast and tubes
- additional external filter
- 5 bags of ecocomplete
- bag of play sand (split substrate)
- some kind of PVC strip (like a giant ruler??) to divide the substrate
- one mega piece of wood
- multiple socket extension lead with timers
- co2 tubing (got reg, diffuser and FE already)

plants are not finalised yet, aiming for foreground of play sand (off set to the left), glosso or HC carpet in front mid ground to the edge of the ecocomplete. anubias (plenty of) on the wood and various red stems in the background.

50 - 100 cardinals (depending on the look of the shoal as i go along, 15 at a time)
my plec from the rio180
6 sterbai corys from the 180 plus 4 more mates for the group
6 discus as long as i can find some euro bred hard water tolerant specimens.

i'm taking this slowly to get everything just right. i rushed into the 180 and paid the price later on.

as they dropped the last one on loading the lorry fingers crossed this one arrives on schedule.


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## bugs (25 Sep 2007)

OMG the 450 is massive... Concrete or suspended floor?


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## James Flexton (26 Sep 2007)

yeah tell me about it lol. concrete floor thank god.

right then. that's one busy day over with, the tank arrived at 2pm. the driver wasn't insured to lift it so jacked up the pallet on a trolley, lowered down his tail lift and promptly dumped it on my driveway. after very helpfully asking how the hell i was going to get that in the house on my own he was off on his way chuckling to himself. not to worry i thought I'll just leave it there and wait till the neighbors get home and I'll beg some muscle....then the rain came down. Somehow i manage to heave it inside, more dragging than lifting (thank god for the pallet).





After 30 mins of fighting with the flat pack stand it was up.








then the misses popped home from work and offered her help lifting the tank in place. blimey that was nerve racking. another second and it would have dropped this thing weighs a ton.





i really am pleased i stuck with Juwel i know under it all it's a chipboard stand and mainstream all-in-one tank but it does look good. i was also pleasantly surprised that it came with the new T5 lights. 

i have now fitted the backing tiles and am ready to start buying all the other stuff. it may take a while though as I'm a bit skint till end of October. hopefully I'll get substrate and wood next week but the plants etc will have to wait for now. i don't want to half do it and cut corners so it will be worthwhile waiting a bit. plus i need to eat in the meantime.   

excuse the cardboard, one of the tiles just doesn't want to stick, it' not flat so kept popping out on one side.





good night all.


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## Dan Crawford (26 Sep 2007)

good god man, 3.29 AM you wrote that, i can't even write my name after about 10 oclock   

That tank looks great and it's massive, so much potential.
I can't wait to see your progress, i'm sure it will look stunning!

Good luck.


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## bugs (26 Sep 2007)

Can't quite work out from the pics, are you keeping the Juwel internal filter?


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## James Flexton (27 Sep 2007)

BigDanne said:
			
		

> good god man, 3.29 AM you wrote that, i can't even write my name after about 10 oclock



lol yeah tell me about it. mind you today isn't much better! i love all this space I've spent two evenings looking at an empty tank planning the layout i just want to go wood shopping now and find that perfect piece but cant get out until Saturday. how frustrating.

Bugs - yes. i have always kept the juwel filters in my previous tanks i think they are very efficient especially at water polishing. i have supplemented it in the past with another external (fluval 104 on my rio 180) but as the intake on that was at the substrate level it did not remove any particles in the top level of the water column.
i the juwel i use a pond filter wool on top of blue sponges (obviously no carbon or nitrate remover). the pond wool comes in a big sack for Â£3.95.i can put in about a 5 inch slab every week or so and it still costs a fraction of the cost using the official juwel replacements. the wool is a little finer as well so all round better than juwel's  
i will plan the scape to hide the box dont worry about that. the piece of wood i want should mostly hide it anyway. it will be rather large!


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## George Farmer (27 Sep 2007)

Looking good mate.

No pressure, but we're expecting great things from this, James.


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## James Flexton (27 Sep 2007)

feel free to pile on the pressure, i thrive on it lol. you will have to be patient though. substrate is being ordered tonight then cycle for a few weeks. i wont be planting until octobers paycheck (quarterly bonus to blow whoohoo)

extra lights, co2 plants etc will all go in at once so i will have a big unplanted swimming pool for a month with a couple of fish in to cycle. not really worthy of pics but i expect i'll put some up to keep you updated. 

i was meaning to ask what i should use to cycle (dont suggest fishless please i know the reasons but am not doing that) i was going to put a few platies in then the plec after 2 weeks. keeping a close eye on water obviously and changing where necessary. i wont poison them and let them suffer dont panic. i assume in 100G of water the amount of nitrite will be negligable with say 4 platies in there. what do you think?

if i can get some from the LFS i may dump a load of waterprite in to take up the ammonia that should give me a small margin for error and save the fish any unpleasantness


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## Dan Crawford (27 Sep 2007)

Fish to cycle IMO would have to be zebra danios. Great fish, get quite big and would do well in a planted tank that size. They have great colour when there in good condition.


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## George Farmer (27 Sep 2007)

Fish choice is up to your taste.  Personally I'd wait until planting but if you can't then anything hardy.

JTo help things along, especially if you're not planting for a while, use some old media from your other tanks.  Squeeze the old sponges out into your new fliter.  

Squeeze some gunk out onto the tank floor before adding substrate.

Put some old substrate as a base layer too to kick start the bacteria in the substrate.  Ecocomplete is supposed to contain some anyway but 'real' stuff will be better.


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## Maximumbob (27 Sep 2007)

I would say a plec is a bit too messy to do a fish cycle with.  I'm with Dan.. if you must.. then zebra danios.


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## zig (27 Sep 2007)

Looks good James

Just use media from one of your other filters, job done, add fish


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## ceg4048 (27 Sep 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> feel free to pile on the pressure, i thrive on it lol. you will have to be patient though. substrate is being ordered tonight then cycle for a few weeks. i wont be planting until octobers paycheck (quarterly bonus to blow whoohoo)
> 
> extra lights, co2 plants etc will all go in at once so i will have a big unplanted swimming pool for a month with a couple of fish in to cycle. not really worthy of pics but i expect i'll put some up to keep you updated.
> 
> ...



Hi Jim,
            FYI, the NH4/NO2 concentrations will build up to the same levels in 100g as they would in a 10g, it'll just take longer. You've got more surface area, more gravel, more filter media and more water for bacteria to colonize so having 100g just means you'll have more of everything good and bad. From your signature photo (top grade by the way) it looks like you're not one for carpet plants, but if your were considering it you may want to check out this radical approach to tank cycling, waterless: http://www.barrreport.com/articles/3361 ... water.html

Essentially start with a terrarium and grow the plants emersed. They arrive in emersed form anyway so just stick them in as you get them and the substrate cycles. No mess, no hassle, no algae, no fish to feed and you can take your time. The technique is primarily with carpet plants in mind but there is no reason it can't be done for stems and rosettes. A few weeks later just add water.

P.S.
Wow, 100g on a carpeted floor? I'm not worthy!! As many gaffes as I've had so far I'd probably have algae growing in my carpet by now if I had tried that. Tell us your secret Oh Great One!

Cheers,


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (28 Sep 2007)

for cycling, I fishlessly cycle using a pure NH4 source.  Zero to full stock in no time.


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## beeky (28 Sep 2007)

You can get bottles of ammonia from Homebase for Â£1.99.

Surely, if you're adding plants and doing water changes to reduce the ammonia so the fish aren't damaged, then this will also slow the cycling of the tank.

I like the idea of filling the tank with water (nothing else) and doing a fishless cycle. Then, empty, clean, plant, refill etc and switch everything back on. You could run the filter in a bucket of water with an ammonia source to keep it ticking over, but it may not be worth it depending how long the aquascaping takes.


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## Matt Holbrook-Bull (28 Sep 2007)

be very careful buying off the shelf sources of ammonia, more often then not they add surficants to the mixture.  The easy way to tell (unfortunately you have to buy it first) is to open the bottle, shake it.. if there are bubbles on the surface, then its got soap in it, which is bad.


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## James Flexton (28 Sep 2007)

thanks for all the input people.

ceg4048 - fair point in paragraph one. didn't think of that. I will be carpeting. sand front, carpet some front & midground (divided substrate). i have read that article. sounds great and i would try it however i am skint until the end of october and i am looking at an empty tank at present. plants will cost me at least Â£250 plus i want an ADA diffuser. wood will be at least Â£100 so thats already Â£450. i have ordered ecocomplete from ebay. 6 bags for Â£120 incl postage but cant afford anything else until octobers bonus payment! in an ideal world i would set it all up together and put fish straight in. but i have to eat and pay the bills in the meantime.

carpeted floor - the misses is a carpetright store manager! that helps lol. also i have checked and tank burstage is covered on my household policy. the trick is to buy some bathmats and put in front of tha tank when you have your arms in. they have a waterproof bottom so soak up drips without soaking through. never spilt a drop, not even when moving the tank (180) out.

i do like zebra danio's as i cycled my 180 with them however i was then stuck with them for 4 years and dont want them in this scape. my lfs will not take fish from the public under any circumstances so i would be stuck with them. i have platies in the 180 at work so was going to rehome them for cycle and put them back afterwards.

good point about old sponges zig / george, durr why did i not think of that, i will take half the rio sponges home with me from work and stick them in.

ecocomplete will be here in a few days i'll keep you posted.


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## Maximumbob (28 Sep 2007)

cloning FTW!!!


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## James Flexton (29 Sep 2007)

sorry maximumbob whats FTW?


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## Maximumbob (29 Sep 2007)

It means 'For The Win'.


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## James Flexton (29 Sep 2007)

ahh i see, thanks.


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## James Flexton (7 Oct 2007)

Right then time for an update. Sorry for the reflections in the pics daytime photography with curved glass is a nightmare!

Well, i've been very busy over the last week or so firstly last weekend i took a trip to Wildwoods for some wood. after looking in the wood pile i was rather disappointed to find loads of small pieces about the size of your hand. on questioning one of the guys he led me "out the back" to two HUGE crates bursting with bogwood!! great... i spent 45 mins emptying both crates all over the floor, selecting my pieces and then putting it all back. no idea on cost as nothing was priced but i had an "oh sod it" moment. one piece in particullar is quite spectacular. it's a spherical piece, totally hollow with lots of holes all over it. makes a perfect cave. it all came to Â£70 in the end, not bad at all

sorry for the lack of set up pics, my camera was playing up and i couldn't wait.

i then decided to soak the wood in the tank as even my bathtub was too small to submerge it all at once. i had no fish at this point and a bare bottom so the empty tank was ideal.





it's worth me mentioning my water change plan. there as no way i was going to change 50G every week using buckets so i bought 7 meters of Eheim hose and attached to my powerhead. fill the sink, leave water running and pump to the tank. the only problem is adding dechlorinator as you have to do this every minute or so as the sink fills. 





George: I'd love to hear about your "inline" dechlorinator i could definitely use that if it would work on my system.

so for the next day or two i changed loads of water to get the initial tannins out then got bored and wanted fish. i cloaned the filter from my rio180 and squeezed the sponges into the tank leaving one sponge in the 450's filter box. went off to the LFS and bought 10 Cardinal Tetras.

On Thursday the Eco complete arrived. now my original plan was to totally drain the tank to add the substrate but in my usual inpatient way i now had fish in it. damn it. remembering you do not need to rinse EC i thought i could get away with lowering the level to 40% and pouring it in. i didn't want the wood to sit on top of the EC i wanted the part buried more natural look so i opened the first bag and started to gently lower fist fulls into the water. well my oh my i am now realising that you cannot treat a 100G the same as a standard tank lol. in order to touch the bottom i need to stand on a chair. this means holding a 20KG bag of EC in one hand and gently lowering fist fulls to the tank bottom with the other. whilst keeping balance and not dropping black sandy muck on my cream carpet! 

so that didn't last long as i really hurt my back lol. next plan was genius, just put the entire unopened bag in the tank and open it once it's in there. then gently tip over and pull out the empty bag. it worked a treat with only one problem. i can see that this wouldn't happen in a dry tank but in a half full one the amazon black water which the EC is packed in really clouds the tank. after the first bag (of 6) i couldn't see a thing so had to arrange the EC totally blind. once i had done it the water cleared enough to make out the line of the substrate after about 3 hours so i then dived back in and remoulded it to my liking, obviously clouding the water again in the process. EC contains a huge amount of dusty particles. if adding to a dry tank these would settle as a base layer and be no problem at all(in fact beneficial) however in a half full tank they float about and cling to everything. one waft of my hand against the wood and a big dust cloud comes up, clouding the water...Grrrrr

so after about 10 50% water changes, a ton of filter floss and a very painful backache here we are...





and after planting the stems (in pots in previous pic) and adding sand. (i didn't bother with the divider as it floated lol. i'm sure the sand and EC will mix but i'm not too fussed. i wantd to create an island look with a kind of shoreline if that makes sence. the entire EC foreground will be an HC carpet if all goes to plan with lots of stems at the back and anubias on the wood. i'm sure attaching anubias with cotton thread will be a piece of cake while it's in the tank lol   





next stage is to get plants, 3 more T5 tubes and set up co2. this will be around the end of October due to cost!

i have negotiated 130 Cardinals for Â£0.85 each. not bad hey. all will be from the same batch and will be kept together for me at the LFS so i can stock gradually.

thanks for reading.. James


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## James Flexton (7 Oct 2007)

i've just taken some better pictures in the dark, those reflections were bugging me.


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## George Farmer (8 Oct 2007)

Nice hardscape!

De-chlorinator - http://www.evolutionaqua.com/display.ph ... lass_id=68


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## James Flexton (8 Oct 2007)

thanks george, damn it i dont have an outside tap just a silly mixer tap on the kitchen sink. thanks for the link though.


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## beeky (10 Oct 2007)

Does carbon really remove chlorine and chloramine? Seems too simple to be true! I'm sure you could make an inline carbon filter cheaper than Â£60 (don't ask me how though!)


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## Graeme Edwards (10 Oct 2007)

Yeah, thats a fair coment. Surely you could have an old or new C2 reactor. Cram it full of Carbon and things like purigen ( how ever you spell it ) and pump the water through that. I gues you would have to look at how fast the water is passing through the media. To fast and it would be a waste of time.


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## Themuleous (11 Oct 2007)

The instruction leaflet says a flow rate though the filter of 2 gallons per minute, thats not very fast at all.


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## zig (13 Oct 2007)

Thats a good method for filling the tank (and mine) never thought of that 

Nice pieces of wood James the circular piece is unusual should look very good planted with ferns anubias etc


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## James Flexton (13 Oct 2007)

glad to help mate   

are you going to the festival tomorrow, well later on today i suppose..
if so see you there.


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## James Flexton (27 Oct 2007)

right i've finally got some money again so off to wildwoods now to buy a twin T5HO ballast and some tubes, some purigen and to hell with it some more cardinals...

ordered some more Pot. Nitrate from AE and 2 FE's from Ebay. 

i'm now deliberating on the ADA beetle. may see how i get on with the Rinox...oh damn it just remembered i meant to get a drop checker.. double postage now lol.


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## nickyc (27 Oct 2007)

It's looking great!  Am intrigued to see how you add the lights as I want to add some to my vision 180 and am hoping to pick up some tips from you!  I remember looking at purigen a while back - does it go in your external filter?  sorry if i'm being dumb   

nicky


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## George Farmer (27 Oct 2007)

Remember you'll need good flow to get the most from a glass/ceramic diffuser.  Most guys these days run reactors in anything over 40G.


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## James Flexton (27 Oct 2007)

nickyc - one tube in front and one behind the light bar. add reflectors and it sits on the 2 centre braces with a bit of tin foil under the contact area with the brace to disipate the heat and prevent damaging it. i'll upload pics in a bit.

George - i'm geting a Rena XP2 in a few days. the spray bar will be used vertically (as in the 180) in the rear left corner. flow will be straight over the diffuser which is in the front left corner. i'm hoping that should do it. no gas at the moment. 2 FE's on the way early next week so i'll try it then and let you know how i get on. what is a reactor anyway, i've never actually seen one or heard how they work. i thought they were the same as the external filter method, if so i've done that before but the filter noise gets annoying. so i went back to diffusers.


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## George Farmer (28 Oct 2007)

Hi James

XP4 would be better for flow and filtration. XP2 won't have anymore flow than your internal.

Or just use a decent powerhead next to diffuser.


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## James Flexton (29 Oct 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Hi James
> 
> XP4 would be better for flow and filtration. XP2 won't have anymore flow than your internal.
> 
> Or just use a decent powerhead next to diffuser.



Â£50 brand new in original packaging, not even oened from a member on TFF - i have my reasons lol

i just want a bit more flow around that side of the tank and an external for the freedom of baskets. the fluval 105 worked well in the 180 so i'm hoping for a simmilar effect. the juwel internal is staying in place to run in conjunction with the XP2


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## James Flexton (1 Nov 2007)

hi people, well time for an update i suppose.

I've installed two more T5HO arcadia plant pro tubes to bring me up to 216 Watts so 2.16WPG. also added reflectors to get the most out of the light available. i really want to grow a compact carpet again and am a bit apprehensive about the depth of the tank. hopefully that is enough light to penetrate.. we'll soon see anyway lol   

Here's the stuff i bought.

- Glo Twin T5HO ballast (2x54W)
- 4 reflectors (only needed 3!)
- 2 Arcadia Plant Pro T5 54W





Standard juwel lighting




with upgraded lighting (4x54w tubes with reflectors) Notice the brightness of the substrate in both pics!




typically because the tank is so damn huge the end cap cables from the Glo kit aren't long enough so the front tube is offset to the left and just about fits in front of the juwel one. there was absolute no way of adding a reflector as it would need to be about an inch further forward so i just put it under the juwel reflector along with the original one. before anyone suggests an alternative setup for it i have screwed the ballast to the roof of the right hand cupboard right in the top left corner. that's as close as it can get to provide just enough cable to reach in front of the juwel light bar. i can fit both behind the light bar with reflectors attached but i really want a nice forground carpet and i think direct light from above will provide a better intensity at substrate level. 

I've also bought the additional filter. Rena XP2 brand new and sealed from Fwapp on TFF for Â£50. 





I'm well chuffed with it, very good quality clear silicone hoses, far better than my fluval ones on the old tank. totally silent running (so far) and seems easy to get to the media. flow rate using my highly efficient holding hand in front of outlet method seems similar to the juwel filter which will remain running along side it. 

so a tank shot with 2.16WPG (oops spray bar and inlet are not in the final position - ignore that.)




now all i need is for my FE's to turn up and I'll buy the plants. getting there...slowly


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## beeky (2 Nov 2007)

Looking good!

Is that N. zenkeri in there? What the feathery one?

My plant ID skills still leave alot to be desired!


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## James Flexton (2 Nov 2007)

correct. or Tiger Lotus as us laypeople call it. i may be good at aquascaping and growing but latin...thats another story.

the feathery one is just that...a feathery one lol. no idea TBH simillar to Cabomba but much finer leaved. LFS has it in all the time, they dont know what it is either. if it grows then i dont really care what it is called lol.


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## zig (2 Nov 2007)

Nice bit of progress there James, slowly coming together, should be looking cracking just in time for xmas, so probably not bad timing at all


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## George Farmer (4 Nov 2007)

'Feathery plant' looks like Myriophyllum sp.

Looking good, James.  I may have some plants for you at Sam's BBQ.  Looks like it needs them... 

BTW Arcadia have been in touch.  They're going to be making T5 tubes in Juwel sizes.  I can highly recommend their Plant Pro T5.  Super rendition and growth.


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## James Flexton (4 Nov 2007)

thanks george i may well take you up on the plant offer. i should be ordering plants this week as long as the FE's turn up. but i'm sure i could squeeze a few more in if you have anything special.

as to tubes thats what i just bought, 2 arcadia T5HO plant pro 54W. they are a bit purple for me but blend in well when the juwels are on at the same time.

i also bought a small azoo hospital tank yesterday. damn it where do you stop lol. i'm now off to buy some shrimp to put in it as i cant bear an empty tank lol. i'll get them settled then transfer to the main one later. i figured i needed one as if i get close to full stock of 130 cardinals and get a dodgy batch to add in at the end i am risking the whole stock through cross infection. i will be quarenteening properly from now on, something i've never bothered with before but it has caused a few problems in the past.


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## stevet (7 Nov 2007)

Any updates on this jimboo? I am keen to know as my tank is of a similar size and i also opted for eco-complete. I made the mistake of only ordering 4 bags though....i am a bit light on substrate but i will fill it out a bit as i go on.

Like the sink/powerhead solution - i have a similar solution using an outdoor water butt with large guage tubing and a pond pump! I have RO plumbed into the water butt and use the waste water tubing to reconstitute with dechlorinated tap water! I hope carbon removes chlorine/choloramine - i read that it does?


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## James Flexton (8 Nov 2007)

Hi Steve, i cant really comment on the EC yet as the tank is only lightly planted, co2 has been non existent and i am not dosing ferts yet. other than that it looks great and i have high hopes for it. i should have plants pretty soon so watch this space. As to your carbon question i am not 100% sure so i'll leave that for someone else to answer. at a guess i'd say it should remove chlorine but not necessarily chloramine.

I have been playing around with diffuser and spray bar placement and i think i have found my optimum positioning. i have mounted the diffuser at the front left, spray bar vertically in rear corner pointing straight forward at the co2 bubble flow.








I have also removed the add on tube which goes on the outlet of the juwel filter to create a gentle whirlpool effect in the tank. finally i have co2 mist in all corners of the tank and from substrate to surface. the pics cant show this well enough but it really is everywhere.
i cant wait to get the plants now...


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## stevet (9 Nov 2007)

Looks good - thats pretty much exactly where my diffuser is with a spray bar on the side of the tank above it pointed slightly downward and at the side of the tank. Hopefully this creates a rotational current from bottom of tank to top.

Like the Nympaea - hoping to grow my own out from Greenline. Mine came just as a set of leaves with a very small sort of loose root system. I was expecting a proper bulb or large rhizome? Do they grow ok from leaves?


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## James Flexton (10 Nov 2007)

thats exactly how mine came. the one in this tank is 3 years old and originated from the batch i got from greenline. i started with 3 plants and have had at least 15 from it over the years. they throw off new plantlets every now and then and soon fill the tank.


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## James Flexton (10 Nov 2007)

finally i've got some plants in the tank. forgive the lack of names, they dont label anything in my LFS but luckily they had quite a selection today. i also bought 9 otto's and 6 zebra danio's (moving home later on)

i had a touch of whitespot which unfortunately wiped out my existing cardinals so i'm now thinking of other options for stocking. i definitely want one big shoal i just cant decide what of. after seeing 6 danio's zipping around there i'm tempted to stock something a little more lively. i may even go for 8 angels hmm decisions decisions. anyway sorry for all the pictures i got carried away.


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## TDI-line (11 Nov 2007)

Lovely display.

Keep up the good work.


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## Ed Seeley (11 Nov 2007)

Looking good James!

Why don't you go for a huge shoal of Danios if you're after something lively?  A big group of zebras could look amazing!

Or if you're after something a bit more unusual you could go for one of the rarer new species of danio instead?


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## CJ Castle (11 Nov 2007)

Nice start, Jimbooo.... 

Wouldn't happen to know the name of the stem (7th pic down) would you?


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## James Flexton (11 Nov 2007)

thanks guys. As to the stem plant i'm afraid i do not know the name..anyone else like to step in here..


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## George Farmer (11 Nov 2007)

CJ Castle said:
			
		

> Nice start, Jimbooo....
> 
> Wouldn't happen to know the name of the stem (7th pic down) would you?



Looks like Limnophila aquatica still in its emerged form.


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## Ed Seeley (11 Nov 2007)

I was thinking it was emersed Myriophyllum sp.  Hard to tell for sure.


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## James Flexton (12 Nov 2007)

ahh that explains it lol. i couldn't find anything on the net that looked the same. how does it adapt then as it's just one stem. i'd guess it'll branch off with the new growth being the submerged form then just cut off the branches and replant, is that along the right lines? if not please advise. Thanks for the ID options.


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## George Farmer (12 Nov 2007)

eds said:
			
		

> I was thinking it was emersed Myriophyllum sp.  Hard to tell for sure.



Could be that too.  I have some brand new Myrio from Tropica that does look similar.  It's only just adapted to submerged, after 3 weeks.  Real slow grower, even with 3.6wpg HO T5, and ultra-fine structure.  Nice though, but awesome mech filtration needed to stop it clogging with debris.  I have a claimed turnover of 2750lph for 200 l. so it should be ok...


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## Ed Seeley (12 Nov 2007)

I've always found Myriophyllums to grow like weeds.  What rare, tricky species have you got there then????


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## beeky (13 Nov 2007)

Are those ottos you've got still dressing up in Cory halloween costumes?


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## James Flexton (14 Nov 2007)

sorry beeky you've lost me there...


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## beeky (14 Nov 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> i also bought 9 otto's and 6 zebra danio's (moving home later on)....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## James Flexton (14 Nov 2007)

ahh yes sorry. no unfortunatly i put my 6 sterbai's in there just before the whitespot outbreak. the cory's got a secondary bacterial / fungal infection and i lost 4. i'd had them for about 3 years so not too pleased with myself about that. the 2 left were uneffected by any of it and seem fine now a week or two on.


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## James Flexton (19 Nov 2007)

Hi All,

Well it's been an eventful week my regulator has sprung a leak so i need to arrange for a replacement from malaysia (ebay..Doh!) so luckily i had a nutrafin canister around and plugged it into the co2 hose for a temporary fix. after about 24 hours it started bubbling away nicely. i've bought some excel as well to dose daily until i get a new reg just to make sure i'm not running low on carbon. 

The angels have settled in nicely i forgot what great lawn mowers they were, my wood was covered in a 1cm thick beard of fluffy algae all over it and after two days in the tank it's all completely gone. the angels and Otto's have slowly pecked it all away.










Plants are coming along well. the unnamed feathery plant at the back centre has adapted to underwater life rather nicely. see in the pic below the emersed light green growth in front and the submersed finer, red growth behind. i'm sure someone can give a positive id now. anyone care to step in. 





The Madagascar Lace Plant is doing well








carpeting plants coming soon...watch this space...well that space..












Fish stock so far:

- 10 Juvenile Angelfish
- 7 Zebra Danios (temporary)
- 10 Otto's
- 20 Amano Shrinp
- 1 Bamboo Shrimp
- 2 Sterbai Cory's





And just for fun a video. sorry about the quality it's from my camera's movie mode.

CLICK HERE


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## Themuleous (19 Nov 2007)

Coming along nicely Jim  Love the angles, they must love all that space.  Think angles or discus for my 100g.

Plants doing nicely, whats the plan now for the rest of the tank?


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## Dan Crawford (19 Nov 2007)

As you may know Jim i'm a huge fan of you previous 180 tank and it looks like this one is set to superseed that and IMO that is saying somthing!
Great job


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## beeky (19 Nov 2007)

Did you get a discount for your shrimps? Any pics of the bamboo one?


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## James Flexton (19 Nov 2007)

Sam, cheers mate. just a tight 100% carpet for the exposed eco complete. mix of glosso, HC, hairgrass and some other bits and bobs. i'm sure it will all and up as one messy clump i'm just fancying a bit of experimentation.

Thanks Dan. i have high hopes thats for sure. 

Beeky, no discount as i am yet to find a store with more than 10 in stock. i have paid between 99p and Â£3.99 for the current stock. TBH if i see any i just buy all their stock regardless of the price.

no pics of the bamboo shrimp. i bought 2 and one died within 3 hours of putting in the tank. the remaining one seems to live in the wood cave in total darkness hence i cant get a pic.


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## Ed Seeley (19 Nov 2007)

Looking good Jim.  The angels especially look great and when they get bigger they'll look amazing.

I like the big Aponogeton ulvaceous at either end, look great.

As to the feathery plant; I'm still thinking Myriophyllum, but really not sure which species.  Probably M.aquaticum.


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## stevet (20 Nov 2007)

hmmm...angels and shrimp! Good luck seeing any of those shrimp   

Mind you i did have some in one of my tanks once - i placed some oscars in there after a couple of years, moved some decor around and there the shrimp were quite happily living in total seclusion under a piece of bogwood. I hadnt seen hide nor hair of them during that whole two years.

Maybe if they stay hidden the angels wont find em.


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## James Flexton (20 Nov 2007)

thanks eds.

Steve i have a rio180 as well (40G) with about 20 shrimp and a now fully mature angel and the shrimp are always out on the anubias and wood. they even stroll around on the open forground, they have never been bothered about the angel.

this is a 100G so i dont have any worries there, plenty of room for them to hide if necessary. at the moment you can easily see at least 10 shrimp at any one time. They are really there for algae control and constantly clamber all over the wood picking away at any minute algae strands they come across.


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## stevet (20 Nov 2007)

It works for some obviously. I put about ten in my discus tank once and that was the last i saw of them apart from the very occasional glimpse. They seemed extraordinarily shy creatures. Maybe i was just unlucky...

I may try them again at some point. I wouldnt trust Angels as far as i could spit one. I'd be very surprised if they dont start in on the shrimp when they can fit them into their gobs. 

...but ive been surprised before. Like the time i stated quite categorically that a Rio 400 and cabinet would NEVER fit into a Nissan MIcra! Boy was i wrong!!


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## James Flexton (4 Dec 2007)

Hi All. Time for an update. 
My Aponogeton ulvaceus has been throwing out flowers for the past fortnight all over the place. i've never had anything flower before so this has been quite exciting.









i have just left the plants unpruned for a fortnight with a water change after a week. Still no replacement regulator so i have been surviving on one nutrafin canister plugged into my rinox. funnily enough it works surprisingly well.

I went to Sams "Themuleous" UKAPS meet last weekend and bought some new plants on our store trip. i realised the anubias i had in there was non aquatic as were the red stem plants in the right for ground so i have replaced these with hairgrass and another anubias. 

I also bought 10 sterbai cory's from the goldfish bowl, oxford taking the stocking to 12. Here's the pics. 

before prune




after


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## Themuleous (4 Dec 2007)

Crikey mate, thats some crazy growth!  Love the sterbai in that shoal, they look like a herd of bison or something.  How many times did you wave your hand at the tank to get them to do that? 

Sam


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## beeky (4 Dec 2007)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Crikey mate, thats some crazy growth!  Love the sterbai in that shoal, they look like a herd of bison or something.  How many times did you wave your hand at the tank to get them to do that?
> 
> Sam



Haha, I saw this comment before the picture and it made me laugh. You described it very well!

Well done James, you must be very pleased. It's interesting you're using DIY CO2 with a diffuser, I wouldn't have thought the pressure would be high enough. I bought a Dennerle CO2 kit that comes with a bottle of slow release sugar gel that supposedly lasts a month. I don't doubt it, but 3 days to start and one bubble every 5 minutes that never gets diffused is not what I call effective!!


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## James Flexton (4 Dec 2007)

Sam: no waving of hands just a fistful of sinking pellets lol

Beeky: i was surprised as well. I do have a top quality aquarium gardening non return valve (Â£18!) i suppose once the gas gets past the valve the pressure on the end part of the tube should stay quite constant. i just couldn't be bothered to put the ladder in so thought i'd give it a go. it's only a short term solution but seems to work very well indeed.


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## beeky (4 Dec 2007)

Have you noticed any change in your drop checker?


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## James Flexton (4 Dec 2007)

i have only had it installed recently, after the regulator packed up. it's kind of middle of the road green. i guess 10 - 15ppm but who knows lol


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## James Flexton (6 Dec 2007)

i've just planted the main carpet. I bought some HC from James3200 and it came entangled in loads of hairgrass which was great as i want that in there as well. after spending 20 mins trying to separate it all i decided on planting a mix of HC and hairgrass through out the forground after all it's going to mix eventually anyway. there was quite a lot of HC but most of it is buried in the pics with just the tips poking out of the substrate. the rest of the stem plants are growing very quickly as well. at least an inch a day some of them two.


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## George Farmer (7 Dec 2007)

Jungle already, James!

Look out for the hairgrass smothering the HC, it can be quite a brute once established.


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## Dave Spencer (7 Dec 2007)

I have  found that some tiny remnants my HC has grown up out of my hairgrass in my Iwagumi, and are now starting to creep along the top of it. 

It looks great, provided the HC is kept in check. What you may find is that the hairgrass will grow faster than the HC and appear to swamp it, but the HC may be able make a comeback after a month or three.

I bet the colours of this tank look pretty spectacular in the flesh.

Do you find your herd of Corys all stay together, or do their largish numbers give them the confidence to stray out on their own?


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## james3200 (7 Dec 2007)

Good to see its gone to a good home

I recon the HC should be ok, as it is submersed and should start growing pretty quick.. on a plus note, your HC wont be getting uprooted with that hairgrass in there 

James


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## James Flexton (7 Dec 2007)

Hi guys, TBH i'm not too fussed what the final established carpet consists of. i just want 100% coverage of the EC ideally that would be mainly HC with hairgrass dotted about but that obviously isn't going to happen. i took a look at james3200's initial layout that this came from and i really like the mixed HC/Hairgrass areas so if it ends up like that i'll be pleased. 

also the cory's do tend to rummage a lot so as james said the hairgrass will keep the HC down hopefully.

as to the corys they pretty much do both. spread about rummaging for food then get together for a swim then go off again. they tend to play together and eat on their own if that makes sense. i was watching them for hours last night after i'd planted they were all messing about in the sandy area (so glad i incorporated that) tumbling over each other and flicking sand everywhere. thats the other benefit of Hairgrass, hopefully it will help to keep the EC and sand separate, well at least it'll stop the mound of ec leveling off.

the colours are fantastic in the flesh dave my point and shoot camera cannot fully do it justice. I am very impressed with the ecocomplete as well, i have not added anything at all to it and the plants are looking very healthy indeed. i am now on full EI though so this may have been the case whatever the substrate. root growth is very good though so that must be the EC i suppose.


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## TDI-line (27 Dec 2007)

Tank is looking really natural James.


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## johnny70 (28 Dec 2007)

Lovely tank.

May I ask what the large wavy leaf plant on the far left side is?

Great looking plant.

JOHNNY


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## CJ Castle (28 Dec 2007)

Any Updates, James... Great looking tank, BTW...


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## James Flexton (28 Dec 2007)

johnny70 said:
			
		

> Lovely tank.
> 
> May I ask what the large wavy leaf plant on the far left side is?
> 
> ...



Aponogeton ulvaceous i think. beware though they really are HUGE. they have outgrown this tank already and i am thinking of taking them out. if you wanted them to stand tall so to speak you would need at least a metre of depth if not more!!!

as to an update...uummmm not too great at present. i have a massive BGA infestation completely covering everything. co2 has been seamless at 5bps. tonnes of co2 mist in the water and the drop checker is bright lime green so it's not down to low co2. i am using a solenoid though so it may be fluctuating levels causing the problem. full EI  (powder)and TPN+ / flourish trace on alternate trace days. 2.16 WPG

i have stopped EI since xmas eve as things were just getting rapidly worse, new PS3 has prevented me from doing anything but feeding the fish so i need to sort it out sooner than later. my first thought was to remove the solenoid and run co2 24/7, any other ideas people? i will take a pic of the mess and upload soon. i am a firm believer in showing the good and the bad after all. lol

hope you all had a good Christmas and best wishes for the new year.


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## Ray (28 Dec 2007)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> Aponogeton ulvaceous i think. beware though they really are HUGE. they have outgrown this tank already and i am thinking of taking them out. if you wanted them to stand tall so to speak you would need at least a metre of depth if not more!!!



I wonder if you can "bonsi" them like some people do with thier lillies?

Please post pics of the BGA algae mess - this is our most popular journal after all and we like to enjoy all your trials and tribulations (and I will feel better about the brown hairy alage that appeared in my tank while I was Xmas skiing...).


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## Ed Seeley (28 Dec 2007)

I got rid of my last BGA outbreak by upping water changes (and syphoning out as much algae as I could each time) and increasing the flow rate (by giving the filter a really good clean and turning the flow rate up to maximum).

I also added carbon (just to see if it helped really) but maybe Purigen might be useful in removing more organic compounds that could be adding to the problem?

It went after a few weeks of this.  Good luck!


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## James Flexton (28 Dec 2007)

thanks guys,

flow is good (juwel filter plus a second external) could clean it but only been running for a couple of months!

i have purigen in there. may replace it apart from that i dont know what to do. 50 gallons a week changes are enough to cope with, i cannot do more. aghhhh i'm just hoping it's growing pains lol - pics soon


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## Dan Crawford (11 Jan 2008)

It must be update time Jim?


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## Lisa_Perry75 (12 Jan 2008)

Hope it's going better than it was?

And yes my fiance now has a ps3 and is in third year of uni, it's not going great!


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## stevet (17 Jan 2008)

I really would recommend Flourish Excel for this....i found that i had a green hair algae problem (despite have lazy SAEs!!) and bought a large 5 litre bottle of this stuff and dosed every water change. I now have no algae problems at all bar the normal presence of black spots on dead leave etc etc.

Go on seachems website and they freely admit they dont know the mechanism for how this works.

Oh - love the tank btw - coming together very nicely in the last pictures! I especially like the side on angle picture - very nice. Shame about the algae.

I really should post some pictures of my 'journal'! I keep finding myself waiting to get to the 'finished article' so i can show the journey in entirety, only to then find myself rescaping again!


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## CJ Castle (30 Jan 2008)

Update? How's the tank going, Jim...?


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## gixer (8 Mar 2008)

Any updates James?

Great thread.


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## James Flexton (15 Mar 2008)

Hi Everyone, Sorry i've been AWOL for 3 months, been rather busy, no excuse i know    As to the tank i have had a bit of a roller coaster ride with it. all sorted now thank god. i'll let the pictures do the talking as usual.

This is Dec/Jan when the algae plague was at it's worst. i was changing water and manually removing it but it kept coming back. i kept telling my self to have faith and it would pass. thank god it did.

it got so bad that my living room started to smell of algae. not good at all....









































anyway enough of that depressing stuff. if any of you are at this stage and the tank is relatively new please DO NOT give up. keep on at it removing algae and changing water and it will pass. After a big final clean up we ended up almost algae free. in case you are wondering 90% of it came out using a carefully handled narrow syphon tube. even the hairgrass, i just wiped it over the tips of the grass and it sucked up the algae leaving the grass rooted.

So here we are around mid Feb almost algae free. i had heavily pruned everything to make sure the algae leftovers on the leaves were at a minimum.





















since then i have added some more E. Stellata which pretty much filled the tank. i have stripped the aponogen's (sp?) right down to bulbs to regrow and they are each now showing 3 or 4 leaves each. The hairgrass has come on well if a little patchy but it will get there in time. HC has completely disappeared apart from a large clump which has taken root on the very top edge of the background tile, above the water line. it looks great when you open the rear flap it's starting to spread right along it.

I made a trip to wildwoods today to pick up some L-Numbers i forgot to note what i bought though, Doh. one is a blue phantom plec about 5 inches. stunning fish cost a small fortune but i really do love them. i am a little worried as it jumped straight from the bag as i opened it into the tank so no acclimatisation whatsoever. he looks okay but i dont really know what to look for. he is breathing and swimming about sucking the glass, fingers crossed. I also bought 2 L-Numbers both black bodies with white spots. a little dumpy in shape like a gold nugget in fact pattern wise it's the same as a GN with white in place of the yellow. pics below, i'll get some better ones when they have settled in and the Blue phantom turns around when he's done with the glass!!!









So that just leaves a bang up to date set of tank pictures. the only remaining algae is on the wood which i actually am fine with i think it looks much more natural than "clean" wood, what do you people think? oh and there is some engrained on the filter box it's really hard to reach it without taking off all my lighting so i left it be.

























"when two become one!"












i cant remember if i have already mentioned this in previous posts but i have added 2 LED strips for moonlighting. they are siliconed to the front glass above the water line. it's impossible to get a decent pic with my crappy camera but you'll have to take my word that it looks fantastic at night, especially over the sand substrate for reflection.









i have just pruned again so i will take some more pics when the E. Stellata has grown back and filled in all the gaps at the top.

Thanks for reading, hope you approve! Any and all comments welcome.


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## nickyc (15 Mar 2008)

Wow!  It looks great now - amazing to see how bad it got and the recovery.  Glad its back to its former glory too the E stellata looks fantastic


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## Luketendo (15 Mar 2008)

Looking rather good now. Glad that the algae vanished (and I sometimes I think I have it bad...)


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## Moss Man (16 Mar 2008)

That was some very bad algae! But now it looks great, I like the algae which coats the wood, it looks very natural.


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## Ed Seeley (16 Mar 2008)

Looking good Jim and loving the Angels.  Are they wild Scalares or tank breds?

Hopefully the pictures of the bad times will be an inspirations to anyone in that situation and help them keep going with it!  BGA is awful stuff!


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## James Flexton (16 Mar 2008)

Hi eds. all tank bred. i have rock hard water so felt more comfortable buying from a store 2 miles away who do not use any RO in there tanks. they are tank bred imports apparently. i have only lost one of the 10 and one of the remaining 9 is a dwarf lol. notice the "when 2 become 1 pic" it's hard to see in 2D but one really is the size of a 2p coin where as the rest are more the size of an apple if that makes any sense. (sorry inches dont really describe it well with angels!) it wont eat any dry food but gobbles up bloodworm like a demon. i wondered if that one was wild caught and got mixed in somehow. looks the same so who knows. 

i like to portray the real life journal, warts and all. i could easily make it look like "this games easy" and just post the good bits but as you say that wont encourage the newbies. it's like my rio180 i had a nightmare at times but now it sits in the office zero ferts and very minimal maintenance and it really does look spectacular. i am starting to think tanks will eventually reach a balance and sort themselves out we can only guide it in the right direction. this 450 for example was going through an algae stage period. by chucking in loads of ferts etc all i was doing was feeding it (sorry tom barr etc i have rather fallen off the wagon of late). leave well alone and just change water and then add small amounts of liquid ferts far less than EI doses and it gradually turns the corner. 

any one want 3 tonnes of dry powders?!? i am sticking to TPN+ and flourish from now on and will only use the powder if i see obvious deficiencies which so far i have not.


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## ceg4048 (16 Mar 2008)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> ... i am starting to think tanks will eventually reach a balance and sort themselves out we can only guide it in the right direction. this 450 for example was going through an algae stage period. by chucking in loads of ferts etc all i was doing was feeding it (sorry tom barr etc i have rather fallen off the wagon of late). leave well alone and just change water and then add small amounts of liquid ferts far less than EI doses and it gradually turns the corner.
> 
> any one want 3 tonnes of dry powders?!? i am sticking to TPN+ and flourish from now on and will only use the powder if i see obvious deficiencies which so far i have not.



Hi Jim,
          Glad to see the tank getting back into shape. That had to be depressing, no doubt but I have to  disagree with the conclusion you draw here as it may not be based on a thorough enough analysis of what went wrong. In fact, you have all the data right here in this journal to make an assessment. If one looks at the pictures from start date to just before Xmas the tank appears to be in decent shape (presumably you were dosing EI during that time.) It would be easy to guess that you got distracted at about this time but looking at the photos I can see one glaring thing. The plant  biomass was very heavy. Unfortunately, in a big tank the rules breakdown a little bit as delivering nutrients and CO2 to is problematic due to flow issues. The heavy mass demands that you increase the dosages.

The reference dosage for example would have been 1.5 teaspoons KNO3 and 3/8 teaspoons KH2PO4 3X per week, however increased mass not only means increase nutrient demand but also that the flow throughout the tank can become choked. I believe your filter rating was not that high to begin with so nutrient delivery as well as CO2 delivery could easily have suffered sending the plants into spiraling deficiency syndrome. I always say that algal blooms in an EI tank are uglier than most due to the high nutrient level, however there is a paradox in that the nutrient level and CO2 levels should have been _increased_ to account for the increased biomass. You could have easily doubled the dosage and I'm willing to bet that you would have averted the collision.

Being distracted at Xmas, it would have been easy to miss the first signs of the deficiency such as an increase in surface scum, or an increase in hair algae. The symptoms of each deficiency are clear and inviolate. BGA would have indicated you needed to upped the nitrates and/or increase the flow. BBA would have meant you needed to increase CO2/flow.

A review of the latest photos you submitted reveals that the plant biomass is now at pre Oct 2007 levels so of course the light TPN dosing, combined with fish waste will be OK for now. I think it would be mistake to assume that the troubles are all over in a high light tank. As soon as the biomass reaches some threshold level, your meager TPN dosing scheme will likely falter. It's impossible for me to believe that somehow, EI was perfect for two months and then all of a sudden at Xmas time EI was somehow invalidated. In my opinion, you abandoned EI just when you needed it the most. The first law of EI is that algae is cause by ammonia, not by nutrients. Until we profoundly believe this we'll falter every time.

Additionally, let me say that other than a bit of diatom algae for the first two weeks my tank has never gone through any such "algae stage period". The tank is about 40% larger than yours and sits in a south facing conservatory. I therefore have to battle full sunlight as well as overheating in the summer - two strong allies of algae. I can fully attest therefore that an algae stage period is far from inevitable. I've never had to turn any corner and I never leave the tank alone because that is just not well enough at all. I read the signs of ecological deterioration and take appropriate action to correct it immediately.

I do apologize if this sounds like a diatribe of if it sounds like a bashing. I'm only trying to get across that EI is a proven commodity and that if we fail at it it's because we failed to implement it correctly, not because there is something wrong with the methodology. If we fail to understand the science of our hobby, then, like hamsters we will continue to turn the endless wheel of algae production.  

If you really want to unload your dry powders I'll take them off your hands - no question mate.  

Cheers,


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## James Flexton (17 Mar 2008)

lol i was kinda asking for that wasn't i. no harm done mate. what you say does make sense i guess i have never got it spot on. i mean i know EI works as i have used it for years but never have i had a tank start to finish algae free. out of interest does decaying wood give off ammonia. i'd guess it does. if that is the case then there's plenty decaying in there. the top layers seem to be soft with hard wood beneath. shrimps and otto's are eating it and the new plecs so hopefully they will settle down soon.

i'll keep an eye on things and just for old times sake if i see any deficiencies i will add a tablespoon of nitrate at a time and resume full EI. as to flow i have 2 filters an external and the juwel. neither is overly strong but combined they do flow through out the whole tank. i was thinking of adding a hydor pump do you think it would help at all. the plecs will appreciate the flow but not sure about the angels.

co2 is at about 6 bps through the same reg as yours rinox 2000. still not convinced it is working correctly though most bubbles are 80% larger than the smallest ones if that makes sense.

thanks for the input clive much appreciated.


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## Ed Seeley (17 Mar 2008)

My Hydor certainly seems to do a good job on my tank Jim, but it does get a bit noisy at times when bubbles get trapped in there.  It may just be the angle I've got it at or the fact the the CO2 is underneath it.  Turning it off and on frees the bubbles.  The big advantage, IMO, of using a circulation pump rather than another filter (aside from cost) is that I only have this pump on when the CO2 is on so the fish get a quiet night and aren't blasted with high flow 24/7.


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## James Flexton (17 Mar 2008)

sounds good i'll look into getting one. thanks for the info Ed.


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## ceg4048 (17 Mar 2008)

Hi Jim,
          I agree with Ed that the pump would definitely help in terms of nutrient delivery, but given the choice (and the means) I would opt for a filter upgrade/addition because delivery is only half the story. The other half is ammonia reduction. More filtration means more room for bacteria.

I'm not really sure about the ammonia production from the wood. It can get lot of fungus in the beginning but I suppose if there is organic matter trapped then yeah, it could decay. I've had wood flake off but I've not gotten a soft layer. If it has any bad odor at all the answer is a big yes I reckon.

How many diffusers do you have? Only the single Rhinox? If so you may want to think about adding a second. That much water has too much inertia and it takes ages to get an even distribution. I'd think about adding an external like the Cal Aqua Inline (http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1370) that way one side of the tank doesn't have to wait to get it's share of gas.

So far, so good on the Regulator (knocks on wood).  

Cheer mate,


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## James Flexton (17 Mar 2008)

Hi Clive. yeah thank god the reg has been fine after the exchange. i'm scared witless of adding another diffuser though surely that would involve a T-Section in the co2 hose. another potential leak lol. i'm up for changing diffusion method though if you can suggest anything i know the rinox is inadequate as even with silly amounts of co2 going in the drop checker is indicating low levels of co2. sometimes i get the fine mist but mostly just a bubble curtain going straight up! 

as to filtration there is a lot in there already. the Juwel Jumbo filter holds 9 litres of filter media max flow 1000L/hr and the Rena XP2 6.3 litres at 1050L/hr. i know max flow is far from normal operating flow but it's not bad IMO. and 15.3 litres of filter media is also rather a lot IMO. hence why i was looking at the Hydor. i want to add a little more flow but didn't think i needed the filtration. apart from that the cabinet's full already! please correct me if i'm wrong and you think i need more of anything. as to media i am using the juwel sponges with an added big chunk of pond filter floss on top in place of the thin juwel white one. the rena has the Eheim ceramic hexagonal tube things stuffed full into the bottom tray with a course, medium and fine pond filter (cut to size) in the top tray. i can just about put the lid on!


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## ceg4048 (17 Mar 2008)

Hey Jim,
             Are you ready to be blown away? This could get ugly, but don't shoot me I'm just the messenger.  You're right about the T-section, it is just another source of potential leak. Additionally, you never get even gas flow between the two diffusers, one always has less resistance than the other. Despite all that I really think the headaches might be worth it. As you said, that mist in one corner has to be distributed over the whole tank. It's just really difficult on this size. I use this splitter which has never leaked (knocks on wood twice). It has hose clamp type fittings on the ends. http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1254
If one of the diffusers hogs the gas you could install one of these "speed controllers" on that side - http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1253 this has similar fittings called snap shut. I don't bother with this I just turn up the needle valve and blast more gas through and eventually, the slow side gets it's share of flow. I don't have super-mega-expensive fish though  If you want to just stick with a single diffuser you ought to at least consider using an inline type like the Cal Aqua on the link I gave. That way you are dispersing the dissolved gas with more force into the tank from the filter output.

Speaking of filter output, I did a test of one of my supposedly 1700LPH filters filled with biomedia. I recorded a real world output of 800LPH   This was an easy test to do, just lift the output pipe out of the water and stick it in a 1 liter jug (or any size jug as long as you know what it's volume is). Time how long it takes to fill the jug being sure not to spill any water. I'll bet your XP2 sitting down below, fighting a 3 foot head , filled with media delivers a real output of about 500LPH. The Juwel Jumbo probably does a lot better because it's at water level but those 9 liters of media will slow it down some I reckon. Are you sitting down? Because of the back pressure and friction from the media George and I figure tanks need 10X the tank volume as a filter rating. For your tank that means the optimum is filter rating of 4050 LPH.  so you're halfway there. The only way to make of for this is to add more CO2 than you would do normally. I know, I know, the cabinet won't hold a Fluval FX5 and your wife would probably have you sleeping on the sofa for the rest of you life if you exchanged your canister.  These numbers are just something to be aware of.  

Check this out - For my 600L, between the two filters,  I've got  a total of about 50 liters of biomedia. I've got a combination of the "noodles" at the bottom, zeolite/carbon mixture, Purigen and the sintered glass balls. I can't prove it but I think this gives me more surface area than sponges for bacteria colony. 

Cheers,


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## James Flexton (18 Mar 2008)

ahh i see, hmm oh sod.    cant reply properly as at work but most appreciated will post back tonight...


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## LondonDragon (18 Mar 2008)

Very good journal and nice to see you recoved from the algae bloom! So far I have been lucky and nothing like that ever happened to me, dreading for the day that happens! 

Keep us posted on the progress and as always lots of photos


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## Sandra (22 Mar 2008)

love the step by step blog, its great.


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## James Flexton (24 Mar 2008)

thanks for the comments glad to hear your enjoying the journal. 

okay....for the last few months i have been trying to think of a way to increase circulation without spending a load more money on equipment. i have a maxi-jet 900lph powerhead (seen in the first few pages re water changing) which would be ideal for the task however as i inherited it from a friend it does not have the suction cup attachment for mounting. every time i have tried to bodge something together the powerhead casing ends up against the glass and makes one hell of a noise forcing me to take it out. also it has to sit on something which causes problems with the filter sponge falling off. 

then it came to me... ducktape! i positioned the powerhead where i wanted it then taped the power cord to the back of the tank holding it in position. i have plugged it into a timer to come on and off randomly every 15/20/40/10 minutes etc for varying amounts of time. off all night though to give fish rest (thanks to Eds i think for the idea in his journal) i think the fish should appreciate the varying environment as well, should be a little more interesting than the same old current all the time. sounds plausible anyway. co2 circulation will also be much better as well. 

so another win for Ducktape...wonderful stuff that it is! lol










Also i couldn't let an update go by without some more pictures...and a video. I've moved the fern from the rio180 at work into this tank now, some of you may remember George Farmers huge java fern in his fern/glosso tank...well this is the same plant. i re homed it for him when it outgrew his tank 18 months or so ago i wasnt sure about where to put it at first but really only had one option if i wasn't going to move everything else around. the plecs should like the shelter, they are hiding under the juwel filter 24/7 at the moment and to be honest may as well not be in there so i am hoping to coax them out by feeding algae wafers under the fern every night.
Still got some algae issues on the wood, it may be there for a while yet as it's rather er...established lol













excuse the background noise in the video thats me getting moaned at for leaving fish stuff on the patio right outside the glass doors (well it was "out of the house" so i dont see the problem lol)



Hope you all had a good easter.
James


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## Steve Smith (24 Mar 2008)

Looks great!  I bet the angels are loving it in there.  I'm having a few problems with algae on my wood too.  Stupid algae!


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## Arana (24 Mar 2008)

Loos great and i love the video  might have to give that a try later as i bought the wife digi camcorder for xmas and she has hardly used it


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## James Flexton (24 Mar 2008)

thanks guys.

the vid was taken on my sony cybershot DSC-W55 point and click digital camera. nothing too fancy, a camcorder vid should be much better. i have one but stupid windows vista cant find a driver and the disc supplied is not compatible DOH...

if you have photobucket you can upload short vids easily and post on here.


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## ceg4048 (24 Mar 2008)

Hi Jim,
            A couple more thoughts (call me stubborn). I love the duct tape solution! The thing is though that I would not use random periods for the extra flow. This flow distribution is needed for a specific reason and that is nutrient/CO2 delivery, so that the flow augmentation should be on for the duration of the photoperiod. Ideally, the pump output would be plumbed to a spraybar or something to enhance a wider distribution but I understand that would look awful. At the end of the photoperiod it is unneeded so it can shut down overnight. I don't think the fish care one way or another to be honest, but the plants do.  

Secondly, it appears your diffuser is mounted in a location where there are no plants. This means a longer distance for enriched water to travel before it makes contact with any plant thus lowering the effective concentration. Why not mount the diffuser underneath the powerhead so that as the bubbles rise they are pushed towards the plants? This would also help the fern which is in the worst possible location flow-wise. :idea: 

Cheers,


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## James Flexton (24 Mar 2008)

Hi Clive. thanks for the thoughts, appreciated as always. as to the first point i totally agree but it was a compromise because of the fish. when the powerhead is on the angels all hide in the big wood cave on the right like a herd of cattle all squashed in together lol. they quite obviously dont like it i suppose they have to actually swim a bit to stay in one place..lazy blighters. i was watching them for hours last night and as soon as the pump is off they all come out and go for a swim around the tank. they do it like clockwork, pump on=hide, pump off=swim etc... over and over. one setting is on for an hour and a half and only one fish swam about 2 feet away from the cave then darted back in when it got to the current. i agree the plants would like it on constantly but i do want to see the fish occasionally lol. i'm sure you understand.

as to diffuser placement it's hard to describe this without being here in person but if i put it under the powerhead only a few of the bubbles will be blown around. 50% will miss it and go straight up the rest will be blown over the top of the plants and into the front glass. where it is at the moment the flow is quite strong from the spraybar which points along the side glass rather than into the tank. because of the bowfront the current goes along t side pane and around the front left corner taking bubbles about 2/3 across the tank. then the juwel blows along the rear pane creating a circular current pulling the bubbles from front of tank to back then right to left returning back to the top left filter intake. the powerhead works with the same current joining the flow out 1/2 way along the front pane and pushing the "then tiny" almost exhausted bubbles that bit further to the right side pane. They waft right through the hairgrass from left to right then back over the E. Stellata from right to left. i really cant perfect it any more mate i'm sure you would agree if you were here to fiddle with it in person.

thanks for the comments though it was one of your posts that kicked me into adding it in the first place.

if i am going to leave the varied schedule would 10 off 10 on 10 off 10 on etc be better than random segments of time or would it not make any difference. i'm sure you'll say as much time on as possible but thought i'd ask anyway.


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## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

Looking good Jim.  The angels are stunning (note to self:- I must try breeding my wild pair soon...  I wish I didn't have shrimps and small rainbows in my tank at home as I'd put them there then!).

Love the stem plant in the centre.  Think it could look even better if it was a more 'together' clump rather than the partly isolated strands now.  Although maybe being slightly spaced out makes them look more dramatic...

Liking the tape solution!  That, Araldite and zip ties can solve most problems!!!   

I Agree with Clive about the timings though.  Ideally I think you want a generally stable flow rate during the time the CO2's on if this is to help with the flow.  If you want to vary the direction and get a more naturalistic 'random' flow have you seen these?  They rotate with the flow from the outlet to give a more random pattern but always at full power to give the flow rate you need.  Otherwise there's a conversion kit to change a Maxiflow powerhead into a stream flow type, but it's Â£25 and my new Koralia was Â£29.95 so it hardly seems worth it!
Maybe the reasons you're having issues with the angels is;
it isn't on long enough for them to HAVE to get used to it!  Try feeding them only when the pump's on maybe?
the flow is quite intense and maybe a streamflow pump might be less severe as Angelfish are from fairly still waters naturally?

Think Clive might be right about placing the diffuser too, although you are the only one who can see the flow patterns in the tank.  My diffuser sits under the pump which then sucks most of the bubbles in and then blasts them all around the tank.  Also I find the streamflow pump, with it's larger cage arrangement sucks all the bubbles in and might do a better job than a traditional powerhead?


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## James Flexton (24 Mar 2008)

For the record the stock list so far is as follows:

9 - angels
22 - Sterbai Corys
10 - (ish) otto's
1 - L128 - Blue Phantom Plec
2 - L007 - Galaxy Pleco's
2 - Pictus Catfish
1 - Bamboo Shrimp
10/20? - Amano Shrimp
2 - Spoilt zebra Danio's who dont want to come out! 
Malaysian Trumpet Snails 


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Hi Ed. which stem plant? the E. Stellata or the red one. if so thats an echinodorus and will eventually bush out with more red leaves if it's E. stellata then there isn't any room for a clump due to the hardscape. i was a plonker when arranging it and most pieces touch each other at the base then ecocomplete on top meaning i have to plant in the gaps between the wood. there are not many open planting areas apart from where the crypts are behind the lilly.

i like the thing on the link, may consider that although i am going to dig my heels in and go with the current timings for a while. do remember that when it's off there are still 2 more filters providing circulation it's not as if it all stops. i'll have to do a meet soon as the weathers getting better and you can all come round and debate it with me here over a beer or three.

what do you guys think about the stocking? i have to admit i thing the pictus were a bad move, they have been fine for 3 months now no aggression etc but i fear what will happen when they grow up! what do you think? i could move them to the rio180 which if i move the common plec in here will have just big killies and a snail for company. (think i have answered my own question there..) unless i'm wrong and you think they will be fine together.


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## beeky (24 Mar 2008)

Any pictures of the pictus cats? If they are what I think they are (pimolodella pictus, silver with black spots and big whiskers) then I think they're fab. I've always wanted a nice big tank that I could give room to a group of them. I love the way they glide around a few cm above the bottom. They're quite predatory though aren't they? Like snacking on small tetras and probably zebra danios and ottos?!

How are your angels behaving? Any skimishes?


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## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

jimbooo said:
			
		

> Hi Ed. which stem plant? the E. Stellata or the red one. if so thats an echinodorus and will eventually bush out with more red leaves if it's E. stellata then there isn't any room for a clump due to the hardscape. i was a plonker when arranging it and most pieces touch each other at the base then ecocomplete on top meaning i have to plant in the gaps between the wood. there are not many open planting areas apart from where the crypts are behind the lilly.



Yeah, I meant the stemmies, not the Echinodorus.  Look very distinctive, especially the shot on the video, just stood out to me.  The red plants blend into everything else with my lack of colour vision!  Different shapes and shades are way more noticeable. 

I know the feeling of the hardscape messing up later plans.  I'm thinking of completely re-arranging my other 180l jungle tank and the slate background may have to go...



			
				jimbooo said:
			
		

> i like the thing on the link, may consider that although i am going to dig my heels in and go with the current timings for a while. do remember that when it's off there are still 2 more filters providing circulation it's not as if it all stops. i'll have to do a meet soon as the weathers getting better and you can all come round and debate it with me here over a beer or three.



The meet sounds good to me!  Especially the debate over beers!  I'll bring my Hydor and we can see if that does a better job!  It can't hurt to stick with the timings for a while and see how it goes.  The angels amy get used to the currents more as the pump's on longer.



			
				jimbooo said:
			
		

> what do you guys think about the stocking? i have to admit i thing the pictus were a bad move, they have been fine for 3 months now no aggression etc but i fear what will happen when they grow up! what do you think? i could move them to the rio180 which if i move the common plec in here will have just big killies and a snail for company. (think i have answered my own question there..) unless i'm wrong and you think they will be fine together.



I'd move the pictus.  They're gorgeous but always seem a bit 'hassled'; like they're never happy.  Maybe add a few more in the other tank to reduce any aggressive tendencies?  I think the pictus sp. is better in shoals if I remember rightly?

I think you really need a shoal of something in the middle-upper layers.  Maybe Congo tetras?  They look gorgeous when settled in.


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## James Flexton (24 Mar 2008)

no decent pictus photo's i'm afraid they spend all the time in the open dark space behind the cave and i cant see them. they do come out "on patrol" at about midnight when the moonlights are on but the camera doesn't really pick anything up. They are as you guessed. silver body black spots and big whiskers. gorgeous fish but they do seem timid. the shoal comments make sense. thats decided then i will move them to the rio180 and buy some more to go with them. there will be no other bottom dwellers in there to bother them as the killies keep to the top 4 inches or water.

Ed: i thought i was kinda fully stocked already! bearing in mind adult sizes eventually. bear in mind i am adding my  common plec soon, he's about 10 inches now. the pictures are deceptive but it is quite "busy" in there already. i went overboard on the rio180 and wished i'd bought fewer fish as it crowded the aquascape. so i am going to try to keep this tiddler free to keep numbers down. you know what i mean 1 angel rather than 20 cardinals etc..

right then i'd better speak to the misses about a meet! it would have to be a small one as i dont have much room    i'm sure we can manage some shop visits though to keep us busy, got a cracking one just down the road.


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## Ed Seeley (24 Mar 2008)

You're right about the stocking.  I've tried very hard not to buy many catfish any more as they use up so much tank space and yet don't add the impact.  But they do add to the tank in 'real life' don't they.

Mark me down for the meet mate.


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