# Help with Plants - They Keep Dying :-/



## Pepsi Dave (1 Apr 2013)

Hello, based in Manchester and I'm a bit of a noob to planted aquariums and I'm in need of some advice/pointers to stop my plants from dying.... I don't think I'm doing too much wrong, but still as a noob I could be completely wrong, either than or I have been sold duff plants!

I bought a 35 Litre tank about 12 weeks ago and cycled it, ready for adding fish. The fish that have been added have done well, and survived..... The plants are a different story however!

when I bought the tank I also bought some Java Fern and some Java Moss. Both were attached to half a coconut shell and some bogwood. And I bought some Vallisneria (Gigantea) and an unidentified plant which I planted. The tank has a substrate approx 3-4cm thick if not more in place, and is a fine grade gravel.

The vallisneria and the other plants started to melt back (If my terminology is correct) almost within a couple of days, and then continued to melt away and eventually die over the next 8-9 weeks!

I replaced the Vallisneria with some Cabomba, and replaced the other plants like for like. The cabomba, whilst not thriving, doesnt appear to be flourishing either, but it has only been in the tank for 3 weeks, still the signs are promising! The other plant however, has almost completely died once again.

When I removed the first lot of plants I noticed that the roots were either very small, or apparently non existent. When I bought the second lot of plants, I made the assumption that the plants were cuttings because they had no roots, so when I planted these ones, I made sure there were some root tabs close by to where the plants were planted, I was hoping that this would encourage root growth.

Current equipment, 35 Litre Coldwater tank, external cycled filter, 15W 6700K lamp, no heater, fine grain gravel, root tabs, weekly dosing of ferts, and daily dosing of C02 from my aqua-gro disposable system. Light is on for exactly 10 hours a day.

Please can someone, after they have managed to decipher the above, offer any advice or pointers as to how I can keep my plants alive.

Thanks in advance


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (1 Apr 2013)

Thats a long time for the lights, start it off at 4-6 hours per day, and make sure your getting plenty of co2 in there.


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## NanoJames (2 Apr 2013)

Are you sure it is the time that the lights are on? I keep the lights on my nano on for about 11 hours and the plants are growing fine!


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## Henry (2 Apr 2013)

Vallisneria gigantea will get far too big for that tank. The clue is in the name  Do you have any livestock in the tank?


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## Pepsi Dave (2 Apr 2013)

Thanks for the replies, well the Vallisneria died after a few weeks, I bought it because of how it looked without knowing much more about it than that really.

It's just my other plants, I'm not sure if it's because they're sold as cuttings - without roots - that's the problem, of if I'm doing anything wrong.

Livestock wise, I have 4 white clouds, a hong kong plec, a small oranda, and a black comet (Black Comet due to be rehoused, because again I didn't realise that he'd outgrow the tank).


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## Manrock (2 Apr 2013)

Light is about low to medium..15W for 35l should be just above 0.5wpl? Maybe hard water?  Ferts? You might need to check out all of these but IMHI plants like light and then other stuff, like CO2 and ferts.


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## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2013)

Pepsi Dave said:


> It's just my other plants, I'm not sure if it's because they're sold as cuttings - without roots - that's the problem, of if I'm doing anything wrong.


It makes no difference whether plants are sold as cuttings. Your plants are dying because of insufficient CO2. Whatever method you are using is inadequate.

Cheers,


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## Pepsi Dave (3 Apr 2013)

I think I have identified the plant in question that keeps dying.... I think its a Cordyline Species of plant. And from reading up on them they are non aquatic but regularly sold as aquatic plants.

My vallisneria probably died because at the time I hadn't appreciated the lighting required, or the duration of time that the tank should be lit. I wasn't using any ferts at all or C02.

I think my problem is that the plant itself is not suitable for my aquarium.

However, my cabomba plants, java moss and java fern seem to be doing just fine, hence all my confusion.


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## Pepsi Dave (3 Apr 2013)

Manrock said:


> Light is about low to medium..15W for 35l should be just above 0.5wpl? Maybe hard water? Ferts? You might need to check out all of these but IMHI plants like light and then other stuff, like CO2 and ferts.


 
I don't have hard water where I live, the water is pretty soft around my area. I use ferts and C02, however I'm unsure how much C02 I'm dosing. I use the aqua gro system and use disposable cans of pressurised C02 (Only had this about 2 weeks, and probably a noob choice.). The intsructions tell me to keep the C02 at a certain level in the diffuser, but I have no idea how much this is. After the first week of keeping it below the level it reccommended the PH of my tank became quite acidic and since then I dose once a day in the morning.

Thanks for the info about the light, I didn't realise there was a rule of thumb method for determining how much light was needed. My LFS advised that the light would be fine for my tank.


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## Manrock (3 Apr 2013)

Just worked out your Watts Per Litre and it's about 0.4...this is very low lighting for most plants. Medium lighting comes out at around 1.0wpl. Some plants like (tolerate) low levels of light and these would be best for your tank (java ferns, anubis, some sags, some crypts, some mosses) although growth will be slow. If you doubled up on your light you will be able to keep a wider range of plants. Also six hours a day is not long enough - I'd go for around 10 with the lights you have now, maybe a little less if you upgrade. If your light is low there will be only a slow uptake of CO2 so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I kept a lush, 'jungle' tank with the same wpl that you have now for years, I just had to keep to the plants that could tolerate that light level. I did use CO2 but now that I know a little more I think I could easily have done without. Check out some of the 'low tec' tanks on here in the journal section for some better guidance. Also starting out with a low tec tank is probably the best route in to the hobby (imho) - there is less to go wrong (in theory), algae is easier to manage and it's cheaper! Good luck.

This might help How to Choose the Right Aquarium Lighting | Aquascapers


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## Ady34 (3 Apr 2013)

Hi, 
sorry but I have to disagree with manrock regarding your current lighting level and duration being very low. Just over 0.4wpl is fine, in fact i run much less than this on my CRShrimp nano (11w over 55l) and an almost identical amount of light comparatively on my 180l tank, where my lighting unit is 13" above the water surface, so you could argue that your intensity is actually higher. I also only have a 7hr photoperiod, (6hr on the shrimp nano) 6 is more than enough in a newly established system, you can increase as your plants settle and begin good growth. Doubling up on your lighting now would only lead to greater problems. The more important issue in growing aquatic plants is getting enough carbon to the plants. One of the easiest ways to begin is with low lighting as this reduces the growth rate and therefore the amount of 'food' (co2 & fertilisers) the plants require meaning you have more margin for error. Higher lighting simply enhances the growth rates which means you need more concentrations of everything to feed the hunger and consequently have less margin for error. Distribution becomes more important the more light you have which is why it is suggested to use the 10x turnover rule regards filter size. 
If the problem plant was non aquatic and everything else is going strong and you are happy then you can continue as you are. If any further issues arise look at increasing carbon availability either by adding more gas or by liquid carbon products.
Your noted ph drop is most likely a good sign and an indication of the effect carbon dioxide injection has upon the water.
Cheerio
Ady


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