# Mazzei venturi



## zig (31 Aug 2008)

Does anybody know a company in Europe that supplies mazzei venturis suitable for aquarium use.

Has anyone on the forum considered using these/is using these for CO2 diffusion?


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## ceg4048 (31 Aug 2008)

Hi Peter,
            Yeah, I'm working on a How To article with GerryD from over at the Barr Report. Not only is it difficult to find the injectors over here but the external pumps are like hen's teeth and are expensive. Don't even think about plumbing them inline with the typical filter outlets. Iwaki UK and MagDrive UK act as though their external pumps are made out of plutonium or something. They don't show prices on their website and you have to plead with them to get any kind pricing info. Buying the injectors and having them shipped from abroad is no problem because they are just plastic and weigh nothing so shipping is a breeze but the pumps are a different story. Matching the pump output to the injector size is also critical and Gerry is working up a table to make it easy.

Cheers,


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## zig (1 Sep 2008)

Thanks Clive sounds good, any idea when the article will be published?

I believe some people have run them off ordinary cannister filters with a certain amount of success, although obviously this is not ideal as it will restrict the flow considerably of the filter and the pressure required may not be optimum but it still seems to work to a degree. I was hoping to find a local source for the mazzei so I could play around with it using ordinary cannister filters, I have a couple spare here including a tetratec 1200 which could run the mazzei on its own and then I could just run another filter for the normal tank operation. I'm finding shipping costs from the USA expensive for the mazzei venturi, probably the same cost as the item itself. I was just going to play around with it tbh, once I had the mazzei I could add a standalone pump later if I wanted. The tanks I was going to use it on are not big so I may get away with "winging it".

Article sounds good though, could be a good step forward for the hobby to pin that one down.


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## ceg4048 (1 Sep 2008)

Hi Peter,
              Yes, maybe a separate canister on it's own would do the trick. I'm surprised the shipping costs are high but if you think about it, if you found a unit here it would probably cost the same numerical value in Â£ as $ in the USA meaning it would cost twice as much, so really if the shipping costs equal the price of the unit then you're probably doing OK (that's a pathetic justification, I know   ). Geryy's doing most of the work on the article, I'm just doing the editing and trying to keep it real from a UK perspective because one of the other issues is the fittings which are different over there. Should be just a matter of a week or two but I'll get a status update from Gerry and report back, OK? 

If the injectors are to be found here they would be sold in the industrial chemical industry. I'll also try to contact Mazzei US to see if there are UK distributors.

Cheers,


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## zig (1 Sep 2008)

I know what you mean about the cost alright, any mazzei injectors I have tracked down from Europe or the UK have been very expensive, I will keep on looking though, they seem to be overpriced pieces of plastic fullstop, mainly because they are patented I presume. I will probably buy them from the states in the end, but yes there must be a UK distributor, it would be worth checking out.

Very interested in what you guys put together.

I will keep doing a bit of research on it myself but probably hold off buying anything until you guys are ready to publish the article, no pressure then, eh  

Thanks Clive.


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## Ray (2 Sep 2008)

So you are planning to use one of these to distribute CO2?

http://www.mazzei.net/products/injector_info.htm

But not necessarily off a filter outlet, possibly off its own pump?  It looks very similar, to me, to the venturi diffusors you can already get?  I'm looking forward to this too...


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## ceg4048 (2 Sep 2008)

No mate. One has nothing to do with the other. Although they use similar science their application and implementation are different.

Cheers,


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## ceg4048 (5 Sep 2008)

Peter this is the link  Gerry gave me for the UK distributor. http://www.drydenaqua.com/acatalog/dry1 ... c_373.html

It appears to be listed as Kynar ozone injectors. I would have never guess this if my life depended on it...

Cheers,


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## zig (5 Sep 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Peter this is the link  Gerry gave me for the UK distributor. http://www.drydenaqua.com/acatalog/dry1 ... c_373.html
> 
> It appears to be listed as Kynar ozone injectors. I would have never guess this if my life depended on it...
> 
> Cheers,



Thanks Clive, yes I have come across that link already, they are very expensive, they are looking for Â£50 for one venturi without postage costs inc. I cant work out the postage until I fill in my credit card details etc , probably another Â£10 or so. Anyway they are too dear. 

This is the best link I have found so far is this, worldwide shipping.

http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=mazzei&x=5&y=10

The mazzei's are a good price from here, downside, shipping is expensive.They also do various nozzle adaptors on this site as well for the mazzei's, so no trouble fitting them up to a cannister or any other flexible type tubing. I want to buy two mazzeis + adaptors and it works out cheaper to buy both from the USA than buy one from the UK in the link above. Strong Euro V dollar helps here, although the Euro is also at record levels against sterling also, doesn't make this company any cheaper though. I can get both delivered for about â‚¬80 from the US site.


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## Garuf (8 Sep 2008)

http://www.barrreport.com/articles/2282 ... fuser.html
Not a sale site but a good record of trials and tribulations using a mazzei.


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## mick b (8 Sep 2008)

Try this link;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Mazzie-V ... 286.c0.m14

Cheers,  Mick B 

Or this one, for 1/2" veriant

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Trident- ... 911.c0.m14


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## Garuf (10 Sep 2008)

Tom Barr has said these can be used as a pseudo venturi, I just can't find them in the UK, anyone who has any luck want to point me in the right direction?
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~ ... ICOPP.html


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## a1Matt (10 Sep 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Tom Barr has said these can be used as a pseudo venturi, I just can't find them in the UK, anyone who has any luck want to point me in the right direction?
> http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~ ... ICOPP.html



Here you go Gareth   ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=002

Although there is no brand mentioned I bought one of these (to use as a venturi on a DIY inline reactor) and when it turned up it was the Aquamedic one.

PS So as not to confuse anyway trying to understand the workings of a mazzei injector, This is off topic as these are not mazzei's but simple tees


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## Garuf (10 Sep 2008)

Have you tried it out for injecting co2? do you think it's a viable option?


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## a1Matt (10 Sep 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Have you tried it out for injecting co2? do you think it's a viable option?



I'll PM you so as not to hijack this thread anymore!


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## JamesM (10 Sep 2008)

No, please hijack it, others want to know too


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## a1Matt (10 Sep 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> No, please hijack it, others want to know too



As you asked I will post my PM here as well!  

Admins - if I am being disrespectful please feel free to delete\move my post if you see fit.




			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Have you tried it out for injecting co2? do you think it's a viable option?



No I haven't - I am not feeding CO2 directly into the tee. It forms part of the venturi loop in my external CO2 reactor (yet to be comissioned). 

Is it viable? Definitely Yes - but no more so than just placing the end of the CO2 line near the intake of the filter and letting the filter suck it in.

Here is a thread talking about my usage of the tee:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1926&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=barr+reactor

A genuine mazzei venturi on the other hand is something else. I have not gone for the mazzei option as I understand that the trick there (speaking vicariously, as I have never owned a mazzei venturi) is to match the flow rate\head pressure of the pump to the mazzei and that they need a serious bit of flow too work properly. When you get them working correctly they are meant to be fantastic. From what I can gather they are best suited to large tanks.

I don't have Clives eloquence, so won;t even begin to describe a mazzei venturi.  I spen a few hours on barrreport to gain my limited knowledge on mazzei venturis.


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## a1Matt (10 Sep 2008)

Garuf just replied to my PM!.... I hope he doesn't mind me airing it in public   



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Hello, I'm using this comment by Tom on the actual part as the basis for my thought.
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/683510-post1.html
> In it he says "as a froth" and it can be used to diffuse co2 seems promising to me.



This post is really interesting and shows that the tee can be used for injecting CO2 (or O2 for that matter).

The 'plumbing' to put it in the system is the same as the Mazzei.

The difference lies in that the AM tee (as per Toms post and my reactor) is just a 4mm open tube.
A mazzei venturi looks much the same from the outside , but the '4mm bit' where the gas goes in is not an open tube. I don't know exactly what it is but I think it has some sort of fluted opening instead.

I hope that makes some sense, like I say I only have a basic grasp of these concepts and do struggle to explain them.


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## a1Matt (10 Sep 2008)

I'll just add... I'm keen to see the outcome of any articles on mazzei venturis aimed at a UK market.

A small 'mazzei valved tee piece' seems like the way of the future to me.

It has got to be better than the hassle we have with reactors and diffusers


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## plantbrain (10 Sep 2008)

Please note, the mazzei venturi has trade offs, every method nutrients, cO2, light, tanks etc does..........

Looking at these trade offs and seeing which is best for you is the key focus here.

Mazzei:
These need higher flow rates/pressures.
So unless you have a external pump, 600-1200gph ranges, do not bother.
You can do sump applications using larger powerheads etc.
But if you have a sump, might as well just use the return pump's impeller then.

The reducing Tee allows you not to lose any flow and add it in line post canister filter, or in the return tube etc.
This requires a check valve, 2 ideally(redundant back up).

You may also add a Tee to inlet, one from the CO2 tank and then one from a small air pump, you need a check vlave for each line so the CO2 does not go out the air pump obviously and the backpressure in the filter line does not back up into the CO2 or air pump.

This way, you can add aeration at night using a timer and CO2 during the day.

Very simple modification.
This will degas and keep O2 higher when you need it, and CO2 high when you need it and low when you do not.

Another solution that is similar to the Reducing Tee, is the CalAqua lab's diffuser:
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=2143
Cost a bit more and easy to break(don't ask).

Another similar version is a DIY PCV threaded screw adapter, that goes from the return line size to a larger diameter and you drill a hole to add the CO2 line and glue to prevent leaks. Then you place an air stone inside this, pretty much like a DIY ugly version of the CAL CO2 in line stone above.
Or you can run a  DIY reactor tube.

I think the Reducing Tee is fine and works well on good sized tanks.
I use more flow in the tank itself to blast the froth around, but you get far better mist using a mazzei than with these other methods.

But the smaller tanks, it's less of an issue.
So the trade offs work well and give more options and in line vs sump applications.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Charlieh (14 Jul 2009)

Amongst other things I joined this forum to try and find more info on using Mazzei venturis so as this appears to be the only specific mazzei/co2 thread forgive me for resurrecting it - my experiences might be of some use to someone. Apologies for the length

I have tried various methods of diffusing CO2 into my (180l) tank and following some success with diy venturis (basically stepped hose connectors cut in half, reversed and re joined with rigid tubing) I bought one off ebay - it has 1/2 inch threads, an internal diameter of approx 4mm and looks just like a mazzei (384?); definitely not a Kent !

To test it I just connected it to the output of my canister (rated 1000l/h but giving approx 500 l/h) and observed. Firstly with no co2 line the performance was pathetic - my diy venturis produced a torrent but this hardly pulled any air through at all! However, when I connected co2 it came out as a very fine dust - better than the diy versions which still gave tiny
(limewood airstone size) bubbles. Flow had reduced to about 300 l/h which wasn't a problem as I use a Koralia for circulation. My setup obviously doesn't generate enough pressure and/or differential to initiate significant air suction but still manages to crush the co2 as, presumably, it is forced in under pressure.

Whilst waiting for some connectors to arrive I just pushed hose over the threads and connected it straight to a spray bar in the tank. Results were excellent - even with the koralia off micro bubbles gently spread everywhere and the plants pearled better than any other method I've tried. Since then, without spending much and with a spare 800 l/h external pump I've tried to improve pressure/differential as per suggestions on the mazzei site but none worked given the low
source flow/pressure. I did manage to get a finer mist by connecting the external in series between the canister and the venturi which increases pressure (add the pump heads) but in my opinion the improvement wasn't worth sacrificing simplicity for extra compexity and power consumption.

So bottom line - the venturi does an excellent job of misting my tank at an economical bubble rate (2-3 b/s) and without extra equipment. It's outside the tank, has no moving parts and should be relatively maintenance free but it does reduce flow significantly. All in all I'll stick with it but will probably try and get a bigger pump or filter when I can afford it.


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## zig (15 Jul 2009)

Charlieh said:
			
		

> Amongst other things I joined this forum to try and find more info on using Mazzei venturis so as this appears to be the only specific mazzei/co2 thread forgive me for resurrecting it - my experiences might be of some use to someone. Apologies for the length
> 
> I have tried various methods of diffusing CO2 into my (180l) tank and following some success with diy venturis (basically stepped hose connectors cut in half, reversed and re joined with rigid tubing) I bought one off ebay - it has 1/2 inch threads, an internal diameter of approx 4mm and looks just like a mazzei (384?); definitely not a Kent !
> 
> ...



Hi Charlieh, thanks for that, any idea where you bought the mazzei, any links? the 384 mazzei comes in 2 sizes 1/2 and 3/4 inch any idea which one you are using, also what size tubing is on the filter that you have?

The reduced flow rate sounds about the same as if you put a DIY external reactor on the filter, so I could definitely live with that, I thought it would be a lot more actually, I thought you may only get a trickle out of the filter after you put on a mazzei. This was the idea I had when I originally opened this thread basically just use an ordinary high flow rated filter. I think I will give this a try after your confirmation that it works.


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## Charlieh (15 Jul 2009)

Here's a link to where i bought mine from but it was black and Â£8 cheaper !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Vent...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1694|293:6|294:50

The thread is 1/2 inch with an inner diameter of 16mm decreasing to 4mm at its narrowest. My hose is 16mm internal diameter so I got 1/2 inch female thread to 19mm hose barb connectors from here (you don't get any sealing washers-you can use an o-ring):

http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php/cPath/25_137_163?osCsid=8dbe7ded679f2d5b0cdd65f668e1bd59

The co2 connector is a 1/4 inch barb with an internal ball check valve - you can either heat up your co2 line in boiling water and work it over the barb or insert a standard airline connector into the barb as long as it's a tight fit.

Hope this helps
Charlie


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## zig (15 Jul 2009)

Charlieh said:
			
		

> Here's a link to where i bought mine from but it was black and Â£8 cheaper !
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Vent...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1694|293:6|294:50
> 
> ...



Thanks mate I will see how I get on, I found a mazzei but he's looking for $50 and $20 postage, I will have a look around and see if I can get one a bit cheaper, the orange one you have linked is usually advertised as an ozone venturi for saunas, so not sure if its the same thing, I will try and find a black one as well.

Second link is helpful  I will definitely give it a try once I track down the mazzei.

Thanks again


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## Charlieh (21 Jul 2009)

Hmmm that was interesting !

Just rigged up an Eheim compact 2000 into my return feed in an attempt to increase flow and pressure with the mazzei. My idea was to connect it between the filter and mazzei, remove the canister's impeller and hey presto ..... more flow. To test it I left the impeller in and simply switched off the canister but the results weren't as expected.

My canister (Aqua One CF1000) is rated at 1000 l/h with a max head of 1.8m. It operates with a static head of about 1.2m on my tank and gave approx 500 l/h without the mazzei attached which is as expected. The eheim is rated at 1000-2000l/h with max head of 2.3m so you'd expect that it would increase flow significantly ? Not the case - I decided to be really sad and measure the flow because it wasn't the rush I expected when I turned it on. I tested each combination 5 or 6 times so am fairly confident of my results. They all include the mazzei.

CF1000 only = 288l/h (fine CO2 mist)
Eheim 2000 @ 1000 l/h = 288 l/h (fine CO2 mist)
Eheim 2000 @ 2000 l/h = 324 l/h (very fine CO2 mist)
CF1000 + E2000(@1000l/h) = 396 l/h (extremely fine CO2 mist)
CF1000 + E2000(@2000l/h) = 450 l/h (extremely fine CO2 mist)

Finally I also measured the combined flow with a New Jet 800 external pump rigged in the same way (800l/h max head = 1.2m)
CF1000 + NJ800 = 360l/h (fine CO2 mist)

The flows will probably increase when the impeller is removed or if I connected the Eheim on it's own loop or in parallel with the filter but I'm trying to keep things simple and minimise equipment in the tank. So to be honest I don't think the improvements are worth the extra hassle as the canister filter on it's own produces perfectly acceptable results.

Charlie


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