# Help: Gap between stand and bottom of rimless aquarium



## Nathan G (9 Aug 2019)

Hi, I've recently got into the hobby, listened to many podcasts, and been doing a lot of learning about aquascaping. This is something I've discovered I'm quite passionate about! I currently have a low tech 4 gallon aquarium that I've been learning on, and over the past several months have been planning a acquiring   what I need for a bigger high tech aquarium.

The specs:

FireAQUA 25 gallon rimless (60 x 40 x 40 cm, 8mm thick)
The matching stand for it
Eheim 600 classic canister filter
Hydor inline heater
co2art Pro-SE regulator
co2art inline atomizer diffuser
Chihiros A series LED
I was all excited to scape it and fill it, when to my frustration I discovered that there's a small gap between the top of the stand and the edge of the aquarium in a couple places. I've got it sitting on top of the mat the aquarium came with, but I don't think that will help the problem. I just want to ensure I won't have a leak or glass break/flood at some point down the road given the weight will be ~300lbs once scaped and filled.

From the research I've done, sounds like there are several options:

Do nothing and use with the mat as is
Buy a medium soft 1cm thick white piece of styrofoam from a hardware store and cut to size
Buy a rigid piece of styrofoam (pink?) from a hardware store and cut to size
Buy a thick (18mm?) piece of plywood, add shims underneath the plywood where necessary, paint it, somehow secure to the top of the stand, rest aquarium on top of it with perhaps the mat that came with it
Plane the top of the stand with a hand planer to bring it to level 
From what I understand, it's most important to have support on the four corners / around the edge, so this isn't looking good for me. My instinct says either 4 or 5, but both those options are more work, with DIY skills necessary that I don't really have. Or perhaps this is a lot of concern over very little.

I realize there may be a few other posts out there similar, but wanted to get clarity for my situation. Any advice would be really appreciated!

I've taken some pictures to illustrate...

The tank and stand:



 

Back corner with the mat underneath:


 

Back corner without the mat underneath:


 

Front corner without the mat underneath:


 

A level piece of wood resting diagonally:


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## alto (9 Aug 2019)

I’d consider this gap too extensive for longterm soundness
Do you have insurance that will replace aquarium and stand and contents and cover all water damages?

 Sent you a pm 

None of the Styrofoams you mention, offer suitable physical support 
With some effort, the plywood could work - I’ll try to find the appropriate thread with detailed instructions 

If you plane the Stand, any warranty will be void 
+ you’ll need to waterproof after


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## GlenD (9 Aug 2019)

Is
The stand twisted
The tank twisted
or is it just your floor is out front to back and side-to-side. 

Can you not shim under the cabinet to bring it level.


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## ian_m (9 Aug 2019)

Your tank must be 100% supported underneath, your gaps look far to big for foam/mat to compensate for. Any twisting/bowing of the bottom pane of glass makes it prone to cracking as well as putting extreme stress on the side panels silicone joints.

My mate placed his 120l tank on an old chest of drawers on a sheet of foam, no problems he thought. The weight was too much and unbeknown to him a rear leg of the unit started collapsing. This cause the bottom of the tank to be "twisted" and caused silicone to tear on opposite top corners of the tank. He first noticed damp appearing on mat at rear of tank, followed by drips of water.

Anyway placing tank on a proper built unit (he made the unit) and replacing the torn silicone fixed the issue.


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## Hanuman (9 Aug 2019)

No good! You need to figure out whether it is the glass that is twisted or the stand but as it is you are exposing yourself to a catastrophe, with or without mat.

Whatever is twisted go where you bought it and change it. Bring your level to make sure what you are getting is square and even. If what you bought is second hand then either plane or plywood are both options but you need to waterproof it afterwards.


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## ian_m (9 Aug 2019)

My bet, having seen it many times before on UKAps, is your floor is not flat & even and the cabinet is just flexing to the floor levels.

See this thread about ways to level a cabinet on an uneven floor.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cabinet-and-aquarium-levelling.42823/


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## Hanuman (9 Aug 2019)

ian_m said:


> My bet, having seen it many times before on UKAps, is your floor is not flat & even and the cabinet is just flexing to the floor levels



By the looks of how it is not sitting flat on the stand I don't see how that could be a problem of floor level alone. If that was the case he would still have a flat surface, although not parallel to the floor, but inclined to one of 4 sides. In this case the tank is clearly not contacting the flat surface of the wood on 2 points.


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## Edvet (9 Aug 2019)

A spirit level, preferably a laser spiritlevel, will tell


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## Edvet (9 Aug 2019)

Also 1 cm of water in the tank will tell if the tank is level


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## Fisher2007 (9 Aug 2019)

I'd be willing to bet this is a problem with the stand

To build an aquarium that looks straight with a twisted bottom would be a challenge.  To check measure each of the panes of glass individually across the diagonal (corner to corner), then the opposite diagonal corners on the same pane of glass.  If the measurements are the same that pane is square.  If all 4 panes are square (front, back, left and right) the tank cannot be twisted, as if it was the vertical corners of the aquarium just wouldn't line up

Separately, and if you have a spirit level, move the tank and cabinet and put that on your floor and check to see what's going on.  Check the level front to back, left to right and on the diagonal (front left to back right then the opposite) and that will tell you how your floor is doing.  As has been said though, an uneven floor (unless the cabinet physically rocks) cannot be the issue and even then that would suggest if the cabinet has taken on the undulation of the floor it's a very weak cabinet to have flexed at this stage (when the tank is empty and there is no real weight in it)

You could then put the cabinet only back (remove the tank from the cabinet) and follow the same process as the floor on the top of the cabinet by comparison

Don't fill the tank up as it is now - that's only going to fail (sooner or later)


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## Andrew Butler (9 Aug 2019)

My guess is either the back left and front right have a gap or the opposite; back right and front left - if this is the case then it's your cabinet sat twisted as other people have said and is a case of either packing underneath the cabinet although you should really pack along the whole length of the support; not just front right for example.

If this isn't the case and you are sure your piece of wood is straight try the following and see what you come up with.

It would be a good idea to show the full cabinet and how it's made up also possibly including from underneath.


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## Nathan G (9 Aug 2019)

Thanks for everyone's advice! It sounds like what I need to start off with is to use a level to check the aquarium and stand on all sides (I have a small one, will need to pick up a longer one for better accuracy), as well as the floor. I know the floor is not fully level because when I first got the stand, it rocked just a touch. But when I put felt on all bottom surfaces of the stand, the rocking stopped.

Once thing I realized I forgot to mention in my original post is that once I did fill it with water while it was on the stand (after the felt bottom was applied, so no rocking occurred) to do a leak test. I let it sit for several days, maybe a week. The water level was slightly off level (bubble was just touching one edge of the left center line. I'm certain this didn't cause the gap as I noticed it prior to filling the tank with water. In fact, the gap remained the same when the tank was filled with water.

Will follow up and let everyone know what I find about the levelness of the stand and aquarium.


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## Nathan G (11 Aug 2019)

I've measured all diagonals of the aquarium (corner to corner) and it looks good. The front and back are 723mm, the left and right 566mm, and the top and bottom are 721mm.

I also measured the stand top to bottom on the two side and rear panels, three top to bottom measurements per panel, and all were 749mm, though one might have been 750mm.

What I notice is when laying the spirit level on the top of the aquarium left to right, there is a small bow/hump on the centre left. I can rock the level left to right over this hump. I think just the top of the stand is the culprit. The following diagram describes this roughly:



 

When I asked the LFS I bought this stand and aquarium from about this issue, they've responded that 
- the few mm gap will be solved with a 1cm white foam (not rigid, but a bit soft) underneath as the pressure will be distributed by the compression of the foam when there is water
- no point load will occur with foam
- the bottom panel is designed to flex; as long as the water is level, the aquarium 1 year warranty will be valid

I don't want to risk it though. My LFS will check with the wholesaler if anything can be done about the stand (though I'm not holding my breath).


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## Andrew Butler (11 Aug 2019)

Hi Nathan,


Nathan G said:


> Thanks for everyone's advice! It sounds like what I need to start off with is to use a level to check the aquarium and stand on all sides (I have a small one, will need to pick up a longer one for better accuracy), as well as the floor. I know the floor is not fully level because when I first got the stand, it rocked just a touch. But when I put felt on all bottom surfaces of the stand, the rocking stopped.
> 
> Once thing I realized I forgot to mention in my original post is that once I did fill it with water while it was on the stand (after the felt bottom was applied, so no rocking occurred) to do a leak test. I let it sit for several days, maybe a week. The water level was slightly off level (bubble was just touching one edge of the left center line. I'm certain this didn't cause the gap as I noticed it prior to filling the tank with water. In fact, the gap remained the same when the tank was filled with water.


I'm unsure if I confused you; the panels will stay square but the cabinet construction will twist if the floor is not completely flat which the second sketch might help demonstrate. It sounds like the floor is not flat from what you say about the rocking, felt is probably not the best thing to pack up a cabinet given there's probably 100kg sat on top of it.
Can you show us the whole cabinet and what it's sat on?

There's 2 potential problems that stand out to me:
-the cabinet top not flat; have you sourced a longer straight edge and followed my suggestion to see if the cabinet top is flat following the arrows? This is to try and rule out both a hump in the middle of the cabinet top but also whether the cabinet is sat right, remember any problems will only get worse when you add water to the aquarium. If you see a hump in the middle it could be worth moving the cabinet and standing it on top of something you know is flat (a table maybe), ensure there's none of the felt underneath and try seeing if the bottom sits completely flat on the table at the bottom for starters then repeat the 8 trials with a straight edge. You could always try these 8 trials on the bottom of the aquarium with that on something flat although I very much doubt that's the culprit
-the floor; you said yourself it rocked when you first got it which is kind of screams out to me that the floor is not flat which in turn would then twist given 100kg sat on top of it.

Try these tests and see what you come back with


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## Nathan G (12 Aug 2019)

Hi Andrew, 

Thanks for the clarification. I've picked up a long enough spirit level to do those eight tests. I also found a table at home I confirmed was flat with a spirit level and placed the stand on that. To my surprise, the stand itself rocked on the flat surface front to back! So it wasn't just the floor, but seems to also be the stand. You may notice some imperfections in the pictures, what the owner thought was that this stand may have been on display at the wholesalers' (not visible in the pictures, but there are some scuffs on the top of the stand). I confirmed the bulge on the top is still there whether it was on the flat surface of the table, or the floor. See the flat tests below.

*First, more pictures of the stand...*

On the hardwood floor where it will be:


 

Side and back of the stand:


 

Bottom of the stand:


 

The stand rocking on the flat surface...

Stand rocking position down:


 

Stand rocking position up:


 

Flat test - front view - level positioned at the back:


 

Flat test - front view - level positioned in the middle:


 

Flat test - front view - level positioned at the front:


 

Flat test - left side view - level positioned at far side:


 

Flat test - left side view - level positioned in the middle:


 

Flat test - left side view - level positioned at the close side:


 

Flat test - diagonal 1:


 

Flat test - diagonal 2:


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## Hanuman (12 Aug 2019)

Exactly what I said earlier. The top is twisted/bulged or whatever the qualification you want to give it but it’s not flat/level. The bottom also seems to have suffered some water damage and is also not uniform. If water did infiltrate the wood, that's really not good as the structural integrity of the stand is compromised.
No need for complicated measurements. That stand is no good in my opinion. It would be me I wouldn’t waste time fixing this simply because when I buy something new it should be in good working order and as it is, it's not. I would ask for a replacement unless of course you got this with a discount because of its second hand condition.


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## GHNelson (12 Aug 2019)

Yes a Hanuman has quoted!.....
The item is not fit for purpose....ask for a replacement.
hoggie


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## Andrew Butler (12 Aug 2019)

Just remember to take everything I say with a pinch of salt, I'm also not there in person to look or know the full details.
It seems there's a couple of problems combined causing issues here; the top is bowed and cabinet is twisted.


Nathan G said:


> the owner thought was that this stand may have been on display at the wholesalers'


Just to be clear; you brought this as new and the cabinet's meant to be a new one made by FireAqua?
I'd imagine it's now too late to do anything with the retailers as you've had the aquarium full of water on it if it is then there are possible ways to fix this but it would all depend on your DIY and understanding.

I'd started to explain a few things but think it's a waste of time for now, if you get nowhere with the retailer then you can probably swap the top, take the twist out and deal with the damage on the underside along with protect it from further damage.
I can try and point you in the right directions.


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## GHNelson (12 Aug 2019)

If the cabinet was purchased as a discounted item.....with cosmetic damage, scratches,dings,marks etc.
It should still be fit for the purpose purchased for.....which it is not.

Ask for a replacement.
Stand  your ground!!!
hoggie


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## Nathan G (13 Aug 2019)

Sadly, I paid full price for the stand. 

Thanks Andrew for pointing out the water damage. I didn't catch that. I'm actually able to slightly "squish" the plywood on the bottom left side where the water damage is. I've also discovered the left side of the stand also isn't completely flat (I confirmed the right side is flat). This picture shows the stand lying down near the top:




I've sent all this info including a video of the squishiness to the store owner asking how he'll resolve the issue for me. Ideally I would get an exchange. If he chooses to do nothing, I'll likely pursue a diy option to fix everything, and will take my business elsewhere.


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## Andrew Butler (13 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> Thanks Andrew for pointing out the water damage


I did spot it although you have @Hanuman for pointing it out first.
Without knowing your consumer rights in Canada I don't know how to help you pursuing your claim but in the UK ours are surmised by SAD FART:
of a Satisfactory quality As Described / Fit for purpose And last a Reasonable length of Time.
(Too much of a man called Martin Lewis but after being stung myself it's something I've learned a lot about)


hogan53 said:


> It should still be fit for the purpose purchased for.....which it is not


as @hogan53 says this doesn't fit one of the above criteria.
We also so get a certain time after purchase and if it's unused you have far more rights too.

Do you know what an official FireAqua stand looks like? - It looks quite DIY in my opinion.
Plywood can twist very much by itself, not so much in thicker sizes (18mm+)

If you end up having to try and fix it yourself then it's almost as easy to start over again.


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## Nathan G (13 Aug 2019)

Thanks Hanuman 

That’s a good question about the brand of the stand. It quite likely isn’t a FireAQUA. I’ll try to find out. When I look at pictures online of FireAQUA stands, they appear different (door goes all the way to the top). I’ll also be looking into consumer rights options. *sigh* Might be chalking this up to a learning experience.


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## Hanuman (13 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> SAD FART


Made my day. Sometimes I wonder if the government thinks before releasing acronyms like that. Or perhaps you just made that up?

You definitely need to complain about this. This is not acceptable. The retailler could argue that the twisting and whatnot is because of the low quality of the brand but the water damage honestly that alone can't be justified. In fact I would just ask my money back and try to look for something better quality. But that's just me.

My stand is custom made out of rubber wood planks. Good thing is that rubber wood has good water resistant properties. I paid ~280USD for it. I am conscious I live in Thailand so rubber wood is readily available here and cheap.

ADA stands use MDF/HDF if I am not mistaken.


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## alto (13 Aug 2019)

Hanuman said:


> ADA stands use MDF/HDF if I am not mistaken.


Depends
ADA markets everything from metal to MDF(type) to real wood to glass 

An interesting (very) fine print I was shown re ADA Aquariums - if not placed on an ADA stand, ADA glass aquarium warranty is void 
I’m slightly sceptical of this bit of translation 
(but it served its purpose at the time ...)


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## Andrew Butler (13 Aug 2019)

Hanuman said:


> Sometimes I wonder if the government thinks before releasing acronyms like that. Or perhaps you just made that up?


There's a guy in the UK called Martin Lewis who is all about consumer rights and I first heard it come from him.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

I'm unsure quite what prices of different timbers are like in Canada but I found a really cost effective way was to use kitchen worktops made from solid hardwoods; you need 4x pieces (2x sides, top and bottom) then separately a back and a door with which you have more flexibility in material.



Nathan G said:


> That’s a good question about the brand of the stand. It quite likely isn’t a FireAQUA. I’ll try to find out. When I look at pictures online of FireAQUA stands, they appear different (door goes all the way to the top). I’ll also be looking into consumer rights options. *sigh* Might be chalking this up to a learning experience.


I think you need to get some info from the retailer and ask what you actually have brought, maybe see what the receipt says too.
Good luck though


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## ian_m (13 Aug 2019)

I suspect you might be able to "fix it" your self, reasonably cheaply.

Place a sheet of 18mm plywood on top of stand, maybe a cloth layer in between to stop the top getting scratched.

Ensure the plywood is larger than top of stand, your local DIY store maybe able to cut a sheet to suitable size.
Ensure the stand is on a level floor. Maybe even a level concrete floor somewhere else in your house, maybe even on another sheet of plywood underneath to protect the feet/bottom of stand.
Place on top of stand (& plywood) a couple of bags of gravel/sand (what ever is cheapest) from local DIY store. Locally I can get 10Kg bags of sand for £1.50 (UK). Could use bricks, but something with some weight. Maybe 50-100Kg ?
Leave stand for a couple of days weighted up.
See if there is any change in "flatness".
If it is flat, get it in place, load it up with tank, substrate and water as  quickly as possible before the stand decides to change its mind


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## zozo (13 Aug 2019)

If you can make it stand without rocking and its a permanent place to stand for many years. You could use casting epoxy to level the top.
This you can dy black or possibly buy in black. Than you need to clamp a wooden rim around the top a few mm higher, high enough to cover teh complete bulge, make sure the rim is level all around. Laminate the rim inside with Transparent office tape, this does not addhere to cured epoxy resin. Also use a tiny bit silicone inside the rim corner to prevent resin leaking out.

Than cast the top with epoxy resin till its completely covered.. Its almost as thin as water and we all know water always levels.. Let it cure, take the rim off again and polish the 3 corner sides in view smooth and shiny. I guess since its only millimeters, you'll be done with less than 1/2 litre resin.

And the top is flat, using the correct color you might not see the difference, but you can use always some paint if needed. To paint teh sides, after all the top will not be seen since the aqaurium stands on it.


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## Andrew Butler (13 Aug 2019)

I understand your approach @ian_m and @zozo - there's lots of answers but none are going to get rid of the water damage or the bow in the sides and if @Nathan G is concerned over this then there's only one realistic option - build/buy a new cabinet.
You may be able to use an approach to try square the cabinet back up using force (part of what Ian is trying to achieve) but that won't fix the problem with the bow in the top or sides of the cabinet or the suggested side, back and front pieces not being straight. If you get everything else sorted so you can do this and try Ians method then I'd put packers in opposing corners (ones touching the floor are packed up) to try and take the twist out a little easier.
If you are to try and go down the route Ian suggests I personally would just give it up as a bad job if you get nowhere with the retailer. The more pictures you show, the more it looks of appalling build quality along with materials at fault
One important thing to look at is how the straight edge sits on the pieces that surround the top.
After looking at the pictures I'd guess the back is made up of 1/2", the sides and front of 3/4" then the top is sat inside these pieces on an internal support of some kind, probably like the bottom. If theses side, back and front pieces are not straight then that's going to make it impossible to flatten out as it is; let alone take the twist out. If you can remove the inset top, then with a saw or router lower the borders so they are flat you might find it easier to put a piece of wood straight over the border pieces and not inset as it is.
Water damage can only be cut away so that depends how bad it is to what you could do.
Hopefully this all makes sense?

I still think getting/building a new one is by far an easier option.
Everyone has an opinion and this is part of mine.


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## Nathan G (14 Aug 2019)

Thanks @ian_m and @zozo for your diy suggestions. I'm weighing the pros and cons of trying to make the stand work vs. sourcing out a different one. However, my wife may be the deciding factor since she has very little faith in the stand at this point.



Andrew Butler said:


> After looking at the pictures I'd guess the back is made up of 1/2", the sides and front of 3/4"


Good guess! Just confirmed those are the measurements. And that the piece on the top is 3/4" thick.



Andrew Butler said:


> Water damage can only be cut away so that depends how bad it is


The squishiness requires some good pressure to be noticeable when squeezing the bottom plywood. But it's hard to tell how high it goes up the left side since the stand bottom prevents me from seeing any higher, so it's a question mark as to if it's a dealbreaker or not.

I've also been able to confirm the stand's brand is called Purity. Unfortunately here in Canada, it seems there isn't another option for a stand (other than ADA which is out of my budget).

While I pursue a refund / exchange from the shop owner, I'm going to start pricing out other options as many have suggested for getting it built for me locally. Wish I could diy it, but I don't have the tools, let alone experience building anything with wood. A couple months ago, I did get one quote from a local cabinet making company that was more than an ADA stand, but I'm hopeful there are other cheaper options.


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## Hanuman (14 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> The squishiness requires some good pressure to be noticeable when squeezing the bottom plywood. But it's hard to tell how high it goes up the left side since the stand bottom prevents me from seeing any higher, so it's a question mark as to if it's a dealbreaker or not.


That alone is an enough reason to not use that stand. Honestly why even risk it.



Nathan G said:


> I'm going to start pricing out other options as many have suggested for getting it built for me locally.


That is a good option and probably will cost you less than buying an ADA stand, which as for everything ADA related is usually outrageously expensive, borderline rip-off. Canada is a wood producing country so you should be able to find good wood. Stay away from pine. It's not good when water is present. Wood needs to be treated anyway.


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## Andrew Butler (14 Aug 2019)

Hanuman said:


> That alone is an enough reason to not use that stand. Honestly why even risk it.


I'm with @Hanuman here. Something about that cabinet just doesn't seem right either from the photos you've posted but only you can decide if it's good enough to use, if it was me then I'd stay well away.


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## Nathan G (16 Aug 2019)

I've heard back from the store owner, and he's agreed to take back the aquarium for store credit, which I've done. Given I picked up the aquarium just under two months ago, I feel this is fair. 

I've been looking for someone local to make a stand for me, but quotes I'm getting back so far are $1000 CAD or higher, which is over three times the cost of the Purity stand. I realize I need to increase my budget for the stand, but hoping I can get one made in the $600 range.


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## alto (17 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> quotes I'm getting back so far are $1000 CAD or higher,


I wonder if there’s some misunderstanding of what’s required for the build

Have you taken some stand design plans with you to discuss?
(I believe there are some detailed plans on one of the ukaps threads)

I’d expect to pay up to double the Purity price - it’s not a complicated build and finish should be fairly simple
Advantage of custom build should be ability to include slide out filter canister shelf ( as in the Oase stands) etc

Well done on achieving the shop credit (better than initial offer!) - don’t let it sit too long


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## Nathan G (17 Aug 2019)

alto said:


> Have you taken some stand design plans with you to discuss?


The plans I've communicated are quite high level, which may be the problem. High level specs I've sent when seeking quotes...

25 gallon rimless aquarium (no framing holds the glass panels together, only silocone does). The dimensions I'm looking for are 60cm wide, 40cm deep, and 75cm tall. The top needs to be perfectly flat, the stand needs to be able to hold 300lbs (weight of water, stone, and wood in the aquarium), made with wood, and have a waterproof finish. Similar look as the following pictures - https://azure.wgp-cdn.co.uk/app-practicalfishkeeping/gear/50cf24202f442.jpg and https://azure.wgp-cdn.co.uk/app-practicalfishkeeping/gear/50cf2421c0a51.jpg​
One local cabinet maker responded with the following and an estimate $1000+:

The example you’ve provided looks like it has plastic laminate exterior with birch or cherry interior. There are many varieties of P-lam patterns, colors and styles to choose from. Estimate for cabinet with your choice of P-lam exterior and select graded ply.​
I realize I'll still need to give actual measurements for things like where the holes are and how big, etc. But does any have any suggestions on how I could clarify what I'm wanting in a way that may lead to a lower cost?



alto said:


> Advantage of custom build should be ability to include slide out filter canister shelf ( as in the Oase stands) etc


Good call!


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## zozo (17 Aug 2019)

I once made a stand from 1" Steel Gaspipe with scafolding couplings. This type:

It seems not to be named scafolding coupling in English, don't know the proper Eng term for it.




Anyway i created a table frame with these type of couplings with a 1,5" wooden top. The good thing is, because the couplings are bolted, the frame can be leveled very easy if the floor is not. Than if you take a bottom shelf on the floor, essamble the fram on it level it out, place a top shelf, screw side panels to it and mount some doors in. You can place additional shelfs inside with ease.

From the outside it will look as an ordinary cabinet, no need for a difficult labor intensive and expensive reinforced wood construction.. Inside it will have a  rocksteady heavy dutty steel frame that goes nowhere for ages it'll survive an earthquack, not susceptible to water damage etc.

And very cost effective actualy simple building kit and you don't realy need to be a DIY wizzard for it.

Just an idea if you are on a budget..

Steel frame




With table tops




Later on i decided to move it to an other room give it side panels and doors.




I made it a bit shabby chick old school industrial looking. Depending on your wood working skills you can go many ways. The strenght is in the steel frame, the wood is the dress. If i ever plan to move it again and since its an old house as croocked as hell. It can be leveled and costumized again to a different floor level with ease..

For $ 1000 i'll make you 4 of these in any style you like..


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (17 Aug 2019)

Interesting... did you rest the wooden top on the corner couplings or the bars?


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## zozo (17 Aug 2019)

The top is 4 pieces of solid Douglas timber 40 x 87.5 mm screwed and glued and secured togehter. Uses 12 pieces, 6 x 120mm screws. Than it went through planing machine again leaving a solid and flat 35mm thick top. It rest on the couplings and already stands for about 5 years now without issues. The tank is 90x35x35cm, that's peanuts for such a heavy duty construction.

I wanted it in teak color wood and used old wood what i still had in the shed.

As said you could go a number of ways to dress and hide a steel frame with wood as long as the top can support the tanks weight. I didn't measure but i believe the couplings are 5mm thick, than place 5mm plywood on the bars and screw that to a larger 16mm panel resting again on the couplings. Than it will rest on both over the complete surface.

As said the hous i live in is old and crooked all that stands rocks in every corner differently. This was the best and cheapest solution for me to build someting adjustable no matter where i put it.


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## Nathan G (20 Aug 2019)

Thanks for the idea @zozo! I'll consider a gas pipe solution. Seems incredibly sturdy, and may be within my DIY skills.

Another economical idea I'm thinking of is using the Ikea HAVSTA cabinet as a starting point, and reinforcing it really good. Here are my thoughts so far...

Cabinet - https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/havsta-cabinet-with-base-gray-50415196/
Instead of using the base that comes with the cabinet for the base of the cabinet (12 cm height), use it to reinforce at the top - trim the front and back panels to fit inside the cabinet's width, and mount as a support right under the cabinet top width-wise at the front and rear (screwed in from the cabinet's sides)

Trim the two side panels to fit between these two panels and screw them together to form an H underneath the cabinet top
Guess I could also use 2 x 4 lumber for this type of reinforcement

Use levelling or adjustable Legs - http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=50308&cat=3,40993,41285, or  https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/capita-leg-stainless-steel-60263574/ (not sure if these ikea ones would be stable enough)
2 beefy L brackets per corner 12" length down the side (10" on the top leaves room for the cross beam of the H, as describe above) - https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07HYCCSGT/
Make a hole in the cabinet top for the canister tubing and use some sort of hole cover (there's 20cm total to work as the aquarium only takes up 60cm of the 80cm width) - https://www.amazon.ca/Aexit-Stainless-Hardware-Desktop-Computer/dp/B07MK23B1F
Would it be a good idea to waterproof the top of the cabinet with something like varnish? 

Would this be sufficient reinforcement and stability?


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## Hanuman (20 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> Another economical idea I'm thinking of is using the Ikea HAVSTA cabinet



Why not but I am skeptical. Read below. I would rather do what Marcel did. Those pipes will not only last but will be extremely strong. You could add over 20 tanks on top of that structure that it would not budge. Dont quote me on the number, you get the idea! 



Nathan G said:


> Instead of using the base that comes with the cabinet for the base of the cabinet (12 cm height), use it to reinforce at the top - trim the front and back panels to fit inside the cabinet's width, and mount as a support right under the cabinet top width-wise at the front and rear (screwed in from the cabinet's sides)
> 
> Trim the two side panels to fit between these two panels and screw them together to form an H underneath the cabinet top
> Guess I could also use 2 x 4 lumber for this type of reinforcement


Yes could work and I would say required.



Nathan G said:


> Use levelling or adjustable Legs - http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=50308&cat=3,40993,41285, or https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/p/capita-leg-stainless-steel-60263574/ (not sure if these ikea ones would be stable enough)


Personally I would definitely not use those because you would be focusing all the weight in 4 points rather than distributing the weight along the panels spine (bigger surface area thus less weight per cm). If your cabinet will be sitting on a wood floor then even more definitely NOT. Look at what @zozo did. He added two pieces of wood under each side else his floor would have deep markings.



Nathan G said:


> 2 beefy L brackets per corner 12" length down the side (10" on the top leaves room for the cross beam of the H, as describe above) - https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07HYCCSGT/


Definitely needed but also reinforcing from top to bottom with lumber wood on each side 4 sides.



Nathan G said:


> Make a hole in the cabinet top for the canister tubing and use some sort of hole cover (there's 20cm total to work as the aquarium only takes up 60cm of the 80cm width) -


10cm each side if you place the aquarium on the center which I would recommend for even weight transfer. Personally I would make the hole on either lateral sides like on traditional tank cabinets.



Nathan G said:


> Would it be a good idea to waterproof the top of the cabinet with something like varnish?


Since you are at it I would waterproof the whole cabinet not just the top.



Nathan G said:


> Would this be sufficient reinforcement and stability?


Not sure because my little finger tells me that Ikea doesn't actually use a solid wood panel for the back. They usually use some 2/3mm MDF boards foldable in the middle. This allows the cabinet to be contained in a smaller package. This means you would also need to add a proper solid wood back to that cabinet.

Also I do own a few Ikea furniture made of solid pine wood (table, book shelves, coat hanger, Buddha stand) and let me tell you that although they are solid pine would you can actually mark the wood easily with your nail if you push a bit. Pine is a softwood. Needless to say what will happen when you put over 100Kg on it (water + tank + hardscape). Those Ikea cabinets can be woobly as well so maximum reinforcement is a must.

I would be you I would go down the @zozo route. His cabinet is fantastic and it will last you an eternity. Plus it has the benefit of you being able to make the exact size you want and customize it as you see fit. Plus again since the pipes are the ones supporting the weight you can chose even very cheap wood to make the sides, back and front. It wouldn't matter in regards to the integrity of the cabinet. The top wood panel would probably the one that matters because it is where the tank is resting so it would need to be thick enough and durable. Final plus, it will probably be cheaper!


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## Hanuman (20 Aug 2019)

Small correction:



Hanuman said:


> although they are solid pine would you can actually mark the wood



[...] although they are made of solid pine wood, you can actually mark it[...]


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## Andrew Butler (20 Aug 2019)

@zozo has quite a good suggestion but it depends on the look you're after.

In my opinion I'd say no to the Ikea cabinet personally, despite your research and effort just forget about that.

If you have the skills to trim and fix the Ikea panels along with drilling the holes then I'd say you would be able to construct a cabinet of a similar design to the one you had with a similar effort. 
The first legs you suggest are a 100% no as they are basically a screw in a piece of plastic - nothing more so forget about them. The second legs from Ikea could work - most importantly it depends what's under your floor, at first glance it seems an engineered wooden floor (real I think?) but what's more important is the floor below that (concrete or timber).
As for suitability if you click the + on product size with the Ikea legs it will tell you that maximum load per leg is 125kg (275lb 9oz) so one each corner gives you 500kg *max* load, better/alternate options if you still want the look you had - there's loads more to it than this but depends if you want/need to know it.

If you Google 'wood vertical panel saw' and look at the images you should see a machine that cuts sheets of wood, they have them all over the place at DIY stores in the UK and also at most timber merchants now, you may have to pay for a few cuts but this would bring your DIY skill needed right down - again loads more to it but brief details that I can expand on if you ask.

Finish could be whatever you wanted; paint just like you had before which again takes minimal DIY skills (and some sandpaper).

So you now have a very brief outline of how simple it could be to build a cabinet yourself assuming you want something similar to the ADA one you had before.


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## zozo (20 Aug 2019)

You can build such a steel frame into an existing cabinet to reinforce it..  And it doesn't necessary need to be 1"pipe.. 3/4" probably is strong enough depending maybe 1/2" as well.

The couplings can slide up and down a couple of mm if you measure it correctly. essamble the frame into the cabinet a tad smaller. Than make sure each corner touches the top before you tighten the bolts. The bolds are  M10 HEX Socket Set Grub Screws. If you thighten them enough they will eat into the pipe.. If you still don't trust it replace the bolts with Core Point version.




Thight it fit, than take all out again disessamle it. Where you have thightened the bolts there will be a centre point on the pipe. Drill a 6mm hole, then if you reassemble it again the pointed bolt will go into the hole you drilled. Making it more than twice as strong.

The top panel will only rest on the corner couplings with a gap in the centre. Measure that gap and place a strip of ply wood in the same ticknes all around. I've measured it a minute ago, in my case with 1"couplings its 6mm. Than with a 6mm strip of plywood in between it will rest on the complete steel construction.

The only thing you likely need to modify to fit afterwarts is the shelf(s) in it

Than you can still have a IKEA cabinet able to hold an elephant on top more or less.


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## Chris Tinker (20 Aug 2019)

hope you get this all sorted. sounds like a nightmare at the honeymoon... sorry to hear all this... watching for outcome from company though

good luck


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## Jayefc1 (20 Aug 2019)

Not sure if you have seen this but I'd rather have a go at this build than by the IKEA cabinet
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-90cm-aquarium-cabinet-ada-style.52588/


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## Nathan G (21 Aug 2019)

I think for my first DIY cabinet, the approach of using steel pipe frame and a solid wood block top is simplest and very effective at the same time (thanks for the idea @zozo!).I also like the piping approach because it gets me a stand quickly. And I can take the time to build something that wraps it to look nice. I think the DIY ADA could be my second stand.

For the wood block top, would something like this (1.5" birch butcher block) work?



Andrew Butler said:


> So you now have a very brief outline of how simple it could be to build a cabinet yourself assuming you want something similar to the ADA one you had before.


Yep, I could do this. But I think I'll look at doing a DIY ADA style as my second cabinet when I have more time to work with. Kinda wanting to get my aquarium set up asap.



Andrew Butler said:


> but what's more important is the floor below that (concrete or timber)


The floor is hardwood. Below the floor are timber beams. Can I assume this should be sufficient to hold this aquarium (I think our big fridge and its contents would weight about the same, which is on tile flooring)? With the steel pipe frame, there'd be 4 points of weight on the floor.


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## Andrew Butler (22 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> Kinda wanting to get my aquarium set up asap


I've learnt like I'm sure many others have just to take a step back and be patient; if you rush into things then you will do things you regret.


Nathan G said:


> I think for my first DIY cabinet, the approach of using steel pipe frame and a solid wood block top is simplest and very effective at the same time


That's fair enough and it's your choice which look you go for, all I would say is read the next comment first.


Nathan G said:


> The floor is hardwood. Below the floor are timber beams. Can I assume this should be sufficient to hold this aquarium (I think our big fridge and its contents would weight about the same, which is on tile flooring)? With the steel pipe frame, there'd be 4 points of weight on the floor.


Never assume! - I would be very weary about putting such a weight only spread over 4 quite direct points onto a suspended timber floor of any description and without knowing detail would also be weary using most cabinet construction types. Really you need to know what's under the flooring, which direction the joists run where they are supported, how and also where they are.
There are ways to spread the load of those 4 points but finding out details about support I would put as a priority.

I think you need to find out the details about the flooring first before you go any further I'm unsure if this is a saying you have in Canada?
*"more haste, less speed"
*
All just my opinion of course


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## zozo (22 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> For the wood block top, would something like this (1.5" birch butcher block) work?



It is glued together from small pieces of wood.. Then it depends on the quality and it needs to protected never to soak up any water. If it ever does it can crack.. I once had a butcherblock like that in the kitchen crack one day after a few years. That's actualy why i decieded to go even cheaper and beter with the 4 pieces of 40 x 90 x 900mm Douglas timbers and not only glue but also screw them together. And than take it to the local saw mill to put it into the planing machine to flatten both sides out to the mm. The screw holes in the last timber are at the wall side never to be seen. Gave it a color and clear coating.

4 pieces 40mm thick timber put together like this, the long screws are actualy steel bar reinforcement in the block. This doesn't crack, not in a 1000 years.



Pre drill the holes and countersink the screws. Used Torq screws and a ratched wrench with a long torq bit..

I guess this can be made much cheaper than CAD $170


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## Nathan G (23 Aug 2019)

I've made a decision!

After thinking it through a bit more, I realized if I'm going the steel piping approach, it's not much more effort to do a full DIY cabinet. I just needed to build up the courage and realize I can do the DIY build  Thanks @Jayefc1 and @alto for highlighting some DIY build threads here. My build will be based on https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-ada-60cm-tank-and-stand-project.533/ as it's the same dimensions, and https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-90cm-aquarium-cabinet-ada-style.52588/ for some specifics on the build process. I'm actually excited about it now. I'm planning to use 3/4" plywood (~18mm), and will likely use the Ikea Capita legs - though I'd be interested to know if anyone has other suggestions for levelling with other legs or another method that doesn't use legs. Aesthetics are important, which is one of the main reasons I'm going the full cabinet DIY route.



Andrew Butler said:


> I think you need to find out the details about the flooring first before you go any further I'm unsure if this is a saying you have in Canada?
> *"more haste, less speed"*


Have not heard of the saying, but it's a good one. I found a post that talks about everything you've mentioned and more - http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm. Dispelled myths that I had. In the conclusion at the bottom, it mentions how < 55 gallons is generally safe. But I'll still investigate and plan carefully how/where I put the aquarium.


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## Andrew Butler (23 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> I found a post that talks about everything you've mentioned and more - http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm. Dispelled myths that I had. In the conclusion at the bottom, it mentions how < 55 gallons is generally safe. But I'll still investigate and plan carefully how/where I put the aquarium



I understand you're only putting around 100L / 100KG on the floor and I'm really not trying to shoot you down or ruin your plan here - just help.  I'd just hate for you to build things only for them to go wrong.
If you look at myth #5 you can see the rotten or insect damaged wood, this happens to floor boards too so if there is damage where one leg is there could be very little or no support.
In the UK newer flooring in general is made from moisture *resistant *tongue and grooved chipboard panels which without doubt are very strong but do fail. The biggest problem being moisture over time whether that's from above or below - extractor fans not installed correctly are maybe the biggest problem.


Andrew Butler said:


> Really you need to know what's under the flooring, which direction the joists run where they are supported, how and also where they are.
> There are ways to spread the load of those 4 points but finding out details about support I would put as a priority.


Myth #8 is essentially what you're doing so having an understanding of location and direction of your floor joists is what I was talking about before
I'm not going to go through any more of the myths or flooring concerns - that's down to you. (some suggestions/comments may relate to uneven floor etc)

Putting legs on the cabinet style you are planning regardless of the floor below relies upon them taking load directly down the side panels so would rely on the leg centre being aligned with centre of the side panels as that's where the load is so personally I'd avoid these solid flooring or not. There are types you can get but still incur a direct load

By making a few simple changes to the design you could extend the side panels down and simply scribe or shape them to the floor (see drawings below) when everything is sat perfectly level, this would do away with the legs and spread the load more evenly and in the right places with regard to cabinet design. If you look back to the design of your first cabinet there are elements of that you could take on board, mainly fitting the base within the cabinet sides and lifting it a little. There's no need to extend the back to the floor and If this kind of design interests you I can help explain it fully.


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## Nathan G (24 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> If this kind of design interests you I can help explain it fully.


It does! Though it’s possible the location of the aquarium will change in a year or two where the floor would be slightly different. Would it be a matter of re-shaping it to the new location? Or is there another approach that would achieve even load distribution and levelness without shaping to the floor?


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## Andrew Butler (24 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> It does! Though it’s possible the location of the aquarium will change in a year or two where the floor would be slightly different. Would it be a matter of re-shaping it to the new location? Or is there another approach that would achieve even load distribution and levelness without shaping to the floor?


This is all just my personal opinion, other people will have theirs too I'm sure.
If you are looking to change the location of the aquarium then I would personally not take the approach of shaping the aquarium to the floor and instead make the cabinet true and square, painted, all sealed up (including the bottom) assuming it's for a floor 100% flat and level, it would require a few design tweaks from the links you looked at but you then have a square cabinet to start with.
You now have the problem that your floor is not level and after just having a very quick look I think this product could be suitable which is on the Hafele Canada website. This product is just an example of an easily adjustable foot which transfers the weight of the side discretely and easily - if you ask how and why these differ from your Ikea idea then take a look at the first 2 pictures, there's a plate with a barb that goes under the side panel with barbs that hold it in place so these put the load on the side panels not the base. These are then essentially hidden away in a small plinth detail then are easily adjusted from above with a hex/Allen key through a small hole in the base. If that sounds complicated it really isn't. 
This design would now leave the base transferring the weight safely to a solid surface HOWEVER if the surface below is not sound/solid then it could cause problems, I'm just working on worst case or matter of principal here. The easiest way to try and distribute weight more evenly is to add something to spread the load below the legs, whether that's front/back or back/front - the opposite way to how the joist run. If you look at the third picture from @zozo it will show something solid underneath the feet (bearer) which if you don't want to use feet you are also able to fit to the floor and make a level base BUT this relies on the direction your joists run as with your cabinet design relies support along the sides.

A lot of reading but hopefully some makes sense


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## Nathan G (29 Aug 2019)

Thanks, it doesn’t make sense!

So I’ve made some plans for the aquarium build! It will be quite similar to the one I bought and returned. The plywood I’m using is a 5’ x 5’ (1524mm x 1524mm) sheet of Baltic birch plywood 3/4” (19mm) thick, which has a higher number of layers than most other 3/4” plywood. Instead of the ADA-type cut tubing holes, I’m going to make 3” circle holes for simplicity and use a 3” grommet to provide a finish for the holes. I’ll be using the heavy duty base leveler that Andrew Butler sourced. I’ve created a to-scale drawing of roughly how the  plywood will be cut. And another to-scale drawing that shows various views of the cabinet, which is cross referenced by panel numbers to the plywood cuts drawing.


My intention is a design that works aesthetically, functionally, and most importantly structurally. One thing I’ll likely add is a pull out tray for the equipment, similar to the Evolution Aqua Aquascaper cabinets.


What can I use to seal the cabinet after it’s painted?


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## Jayefc1 (29 Aug 2019)

I'm not 100% sure but with enough layers of paint it should be water proof if using a high gloss finish either Matt or shine


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## Nathan G (29 Aug 2019)

Plywood cut drawing:




Various views of the cabinet:




The space between the bottom of the front panel and the top of the doors is 10mm (for fingers to open the doors). And the space between the two doors when closed is 4mm. Is 4mm about right? With the two bottom horizontal supports (#’s 11 and 12), which I added for horizontal load distribution (I think these are helpful in this way?), it moves the base leveler feet inward - is it alright the base leveler feet are mounted a bit more inward?


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## Andrew Butler (29 Aug 2019)

Nathan G said:


> Thanks, it doesn’t make sense!


doesn't? - if so which parts?



Nathan G said:


> birch plywood


very wise choice, it generally has no gaps in the grain when you cut through it like most other ply can.


Nathan G said:


> I’ll be using the heavy duty base leveler that Andrew Butler sourced


I'm not saying that's the exact one to use - was just one I can up with after a very quick look, if you do use that one you may find you need to pre-drill for the spikes a little bit.
If you do order from Hafele they are a very good resource for lots of quality things like 'push to open' catches, hinges and also the runners you would want for the pull out shelf - that's a Oase feature rather than an EA one. Depending upon which runners you look at a lot of the full extension purposely work to take weight the way you wouldn't think so laid flat instead of on the side of a drawer.
I'm not sure what Hafele Canada do the same but I can try to point you in the right directions if you ask.


Nathan G said:


> One thing I’ll likely add is a pull out tray for the equipment, similar to the Evolution Aqua Aquascaper cabinets.





Nathan G said:


> I’ve created a to-scale drawing of roughly how the plywood will be cut. And another to-scale drawing that shows various views of the cabinet, which is cross referenced by panel numbers to the plywood cuts drawing


why not save them and share them as a photo on here? 

Paint wise provided you prime and undercoat everything properly and use the correct paint to finish things then there should be no need to add anything else. The exact paint depends on what look you're going for and also what's available in Canada.



Nathan G said:


> My intention is a design that works aesthetically, functionally, and most importantly structurally


If this is your aim you're going in exactly the right direction.
I'm sure earlier in this thread you were dead against DIY?! Taking that step back and not rushing things is hard I know but I'm sure you are making a good decision, just make sure you update how the cabinet build goes and also the aquarium when it's going.


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## Nathan G (30 Aug 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> doesn't? - if so which parts?


Ooops, I typo’d. It does make sense .


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## Nathan G (15 Dec 2019)

Hi all, just following up with the end result!

Thanks for everyone's input! I've learned a lot in the past few months as I've ventured deeper into the aquascaping hobby. The aquarium is up and running!

The cabinet build probably took me 30h. I at first didn't entertain the idea of building my own cabinet, but then as I thought about I realized I could, and that I could do it well.

Materials:

3/4" 5' x 5' baltic birth plywood (the baltic birch as more layers of ply when compared to other plywood)
Hole saw (I used 2 3/8")
#8 2" wood screws
Water resistant wood glue (would recommend water proof as extra precaution if staining the wood)
Tools (Table saw, drill, bits, etc)
Primer and paint (I chose to use high quality latex primer and paint, and a high gloss for its water repelling abilities should a spill occur)
Wood filler
120 and 220 grit sand paper
Four heavy duty levelling legs (I used these, which support 330lbs each)
Hinges (I used the Blum self-closing clip-top 107° full overlay, with soft close mechanism)
35mm forstner bit for hole for hinges
Clear silicone
Process:

I first decided on a design based on my three main requirements: the cabinet needs to be able to support the weight of the aquarium (250+ lbs), must be able to be levelled off, and must look aesthetically pleasing to me (same footprint as the aquarium, understated design, etc). So I settled on the following design. I chose a one door design for its simplicity in build and aesthetics.



 

 

Then, with the help of my father-in-law and his table saw, made all the cuts, generally cutting the bigger pieces first, then smaller ones. Once cut, we assembled the pieces for a dry fit. Then when that looked good, pulled it apart, glued each join, and screwed all the panels together. After this, I began the arduous task of filling and sanding the joins. Then filling, sanding, and more filling and sanding. I also sanded the faces of each panel to reduce the wood grain from showing through the paint. I Also softened all corners of the cabinet by lightly sanding them evenly Following the filling and sanding, I drilled the holes for the hinges in the door. 

Once that was done, I primed and painted. Then sealed the bottom and side seams on the inside with clear waterproof silicone as an added safety measure against water. The latex paint actually didn't raise the wood grain that much, which was meant less sanding work for me. Lastly, I attached the heavy duty levelling legs. I chose not to drill four holes in the bottom of the cabinet to give access by allen key to adjust the height of each leg. Instead, I set the level by tilting the cabinet on a side, reaching under and turning each leg. This was tedious to set the level, but I was more concerned about having holes and having to figure out a good way to plug them for in case water spilled. Somewhere along the line, the door got warped, so it's not flush all the way around, but the adjustment of the hinges helped to compensate for this to it is flush on at least one side.

I learned many things over the course of this process (most the hard way, and most which are highlighted elsewhere in this forum)

Before buying the aquarium, be sure of where it will go, and that place can support its weight
Before buying any equipment, be sure of the aquarium size, and space available for the equipment
When buying a stand for a rimless aquarium, make sure the top is completely level (i.e. bring a straight edge to the store)
Overbuilding a stand is better than trying to make something questionable work
Majority of the load is down the sides of the cabinet
And lots about the building process itself (some of these are basic wood working things that I learned)

Double check measurements before cutting
Perform a dry fit before screwing the screws in all the way
Pilot hole must be as deep as the screw is going to go, otherwise the wood may split
Counter sink as shallow as possible
Stick to the design when cutting
Test the hardness of the wood filler by taping against it with a tool and against the wood to compare
Place the legs as close to the edges as possible
3/4" plywood is not actually 19mm, but is 18mm
Better to cut the final pieces after retaking measurements of the partly assembled cabinet
Needed to use a 60 tooth table saw blade instead of 90 tooth to get a good balance between a smooth cut and not burning the wood
When in doubt, add a few extra screws
Probably a bunch of other things I can't remember at the moment...
Here are a few pics during the build process...


 

 

 

 

 

And the final build...


 

 

 

It's not perfect, but it's more than good enough! I would encourage anyone who is on the fence to build their own cabinet that it is possible (I am by no means handy with tools). It just takes patience, some precision, and some determination. I feel quite accomplished!

And I'll start up another thread on the first aquascape in this aquarium


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## zozo (16 Dec 2019)

Very nice build.. Congrats and compliments. 

One thing to take into account with aquarium cabinets and using levelling legs.


Nathan G said:


> Four heavy duty levelling legs (I used these, which support 330lbs each)



Is the total weight and the floor it stands on. Now even if the legs can hold the weight it still divides all of it over only 4 pressure points in the size of the feet, ¼ of the total weight on 2 square inch?. Then if it all stands on a floor with a soft underlayment or in some cases a single floor tile per leg. That the floorboard, plank or tile under the leg bends or even cracks under the weight (Point pressure). After the tank is flooded, creating extra strain in the floor and obviously the cabinet and in the end maybe the aquarium too.

That's number one reason why most standard aquarium cabinets do not stand on legs, but have a flat bottom surface dividing all weight over this entire surface. Then if it stands on legs put an extra board in the same surface dimension of the cabinet on the floor under the legs to divide the weight over a larger surface.

Thus (Pressure) point of caution and tip, thoroughly inspect the floor, and make sure it can take the total weigth divided over 4 small legs surfaces.


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## Andrew Butler (16 Dec 2019)

Already spoke with @Nathan G and he's proven that someone who thinks they have no chance of making something can; given a little time and patience.



zozo said:


> That's number one reason why most standard aquarium cabinets do not stand on legs, but have a flat bottom surface dividing all weight over this entire surface. Then if it stands on legs put an extra board in the same surface dimension of the cabinet on the floor under the legs to divide the weight over a larger surface.


Hey Marcel, not trying to pick a fight and unsure if you've seen the aquascaper aquarium cabinets but I'd class this as a 'standard' aquarium cabinet on this forum. They have the top inset to the sides (which I don't think is best practice), it is also only those sides that fully support the weight of the aquarium and those sides rely on the floor being 100% supportive, true, level and flat for full contact to be made unless you are to scribe them to the floor which was suggested before too.

I completely agree with you about the 4 contact points needing to be fully load baring at that exact point so solid concrete is about the best and probably only surface in my opinion.
We did talk through the floorboard/suspended floor scenario earlier in the thread but you're absolutely right about tiled flooring; even if they are on a solid concrete floor the tile needs to be fully supported at those exact points to prevent cracking.

The style of leg used is a great option on account it supports the underneath of the side panels and allows you to adjust the levels through a hole using an allen key; I don't see any better option that gives you a minimal leg that is supportive and also allows adjustment with the aquarium in place - providing they are supported properly.


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## Edvet (16 Dec 2019)

My 400 gallon stands on 8 legs  on a tile floor


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## zozo (16 Dec 2019)

It was just meant as a tip to check the floor.  And i said "most" standard cabinets don't have legs. There are always exceptions.

Seeing a picture above with a floor that looks like wood or maybe laminated, then the chance it has a soft underlayment is likely very present. Point pressure on a floor with soft underlayment can bend easily under a heavy load.

My DIY cabinet also has levelling legs and did put 2 pieces of extra wood connecting front and back leg together to spread the weight. It stands on a wooden plank floor that is 20mm thick, but it also has a soft board underlayment on concrete. At first, it looked ok, and i thought i didn't have to worry. But after flooding i noticed the complete tank rocking back and forth and saw the water move when walking by the tank to the other room.

The total weight pushed the planks and underlayment down and the rest of the planks up at the other end. You can't see it but a walk over the floor planks other ends with my 85 kilo's was enough to lift the aquarium and cabinet a few millimetres and it started rocking. To overcome this problem i had to remake the cabinet or mount it to the wall with rods. I choose to mount it to the wall.

That is my personal experience with point pressure on the floor.



Edvet said:


> on 8 legs  on a tile floor



With floor tiles and point pressure, you need to have a lot of trust in the craftsmen that cemented the floor. You can't see it after its done, but if there are any air gaps in the cement between the original floor and tile. And faith decided you put a leg on such a spot, it can crack under the legs pressure.

All scenario's in the game with a heavy load point pressure.

Check it, prevent it before you flood and scape it.  You wouldn't be the first suffering the consequences if you don't. Crack or dents in the floor or even worse a few days mopping a lot of water.


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## Nathan G (18 Dec 2019)

zozo said:


> Thus (Pressure) point of caution and tip, thoroughly inspect the floor, and make sure it can take the total weigth divided over 4 small legs surfaces.


Yes, this is a good point. As we discussed earlier in the thread, this must be considered.

The aquarium isn't overly big (like a 90P or 120P) and the cabinet is on hardwood flooring that's on top a diagonal hardwood subfloor (older house built in the early 60's, so it's not plywood underneath thankfully). Less than ideal is that the joists are running parallel to the aquarium stand instead of perpendicular, but again, I'm hoping given the relatively smaller size of the aquarium, it won't be a significant risk. All things considered I see this as a lower risk and hoping all remains good. I be monitoring the hardwood and level of the aquarium regularly. Time will tell. I flooded it over a week ago, and all is well so far.


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## alto (18 Dec 2019)

zozo said:


> And i said "most" standard cabinets don't have legs.


This is somewhat location, manufacture, and trend dependent 
Back when I bought my Oceanic tanks, almost every cabinet I looked at was on “legs”, some leveling, some not 
When I cabinet shopped last year, fewer had “legs” but that was more a manufacturer’s choice - most of the lower cost cabinets were cheap build (from a single manufacturer, despite a couple of “brand” names) and more than a few “rocked” 

If my house floor can’t “hold” a 300litre aquarium without structural issues, I’d be worried about having more than a couple of people over for a party  my fridge, stove, freezer, couch etc ain’t no lightweights either 

And what sort of “board” would be more substantial and load bearing than my house floor (which does not limit the number of people/room even on the upper story)


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## zozo (19 Dec 2019)

Nathan G said:


> Less than ideal is that the joists are running parallel to the aquarium stand instead of perpendicular,



That's also the issue i ran into, the Cherrywood floor planks running parallel to the tank. And its a total weight. tank, cabinet, and sump maybe 200 kilo's. The lengt of the aqaurium is 90cm weight spread over 2 legs each side and the 3 floor planks the tank stands on are a bit over 3 meters long.

The weight pushes the planks down onto the softer fiberboard underlayment on concrete again and pushes the planks up at the other end. Just a few mm, I likely would have never noticed if there wasn't a door to another room next to the aquarium. Then stepping on the planks with walking into the other room i create a seesaw effect And see the water rocking in the aquarium.  I didn't see that coming before the build because i only had the concrete subfloor in mind, and only noticed it rocking when flooded.


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## Nathan G (9 Mar 2020)

My aquarium's been up and running for a few months now. Can check out a journal entry I added a short while ago - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/my-first-high-tech-aqauscape.60043/. Stand's holding up great!


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