# CO2 system working pressure



## Joao Marujo (18 Mar 2014)

Good morning!

I have been doing some tests between my two CO2 pressured systems with FE regarding working pressure.

In one, i have the working pressure set to 2 bar and the other one with 1 bar. The ceramic diffusers that i am using are not equal so the results are not conclusive. What i have been notice is that the system with 1 bar send bigger bubbles to the aquarium. Does this make sense? Should i have both systems with 2 bar?

Thanks in advanced for your help!

Best regards


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## DTL (18 Mar 2014)

The thing to understand is if the difference is due to the working pressure or the diffusers.
Suggest you swap them over and see whether the larger bubbles move with the diffuser or not.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Mar 2014)

The more you increase working pressure, the smaller the bubbles get. Why not just adjust pressure while pumping co2 in on one?


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## Joao Marujo (18 Mar 2014)

thank your for your replies. So its better to have both systems at 2 bar, right? And the bubble rate will stay the same or should be reduced? Sometimes, there is no logic but the logic answer is that the bubble rate should be reduced because with more working pressure, the bubbles will be smaller and therefor, the CO2 dissolution should be higher.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Mar 2014)

Muse said:


> thank your for your replies. So its better to have both systems at 2 bar, right? And the bubble rate will stay the same or should be reduced? Sometimes, there is no logic but the logic answer is that the bubble rate should be reduced because with more working pressure, the bubbles will be smaller and therefor, the CO2 dissolution should be higher.




I'd advise running at 3 bar where possible. Nice and misty! 
Smaller bubbles = better dilution rate of co2 in water ( preventing bubbles wasted by popping on surface) so therefore should allow you to maintain 30ppm with a lower 'bubble rate', so to speak. 

You'll need a nice diffuser / atomiser to mist efficiently too. With a little time spent getting it right, I'm currently running one of  these and it seems to have done the trick. They are better options though. Co2 art do a few atomisers / inlines that will be better. BUT to use these, you need to be hitting around 3 bar.


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## Joao Marujo (18 Mar 2014)

i never had any of my pressure regulated to those pressures! Both of them have the "red line" at 2 bar. Isnt dangerous  to overpass that line?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Mar 2014)

What reg you using?


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## Joao Marujo (18 Mar 2014)

Dont know the brand but it this one: http://fish.aquaristic.net/CO2-Pressure-reducer-with-2-Manometer-dosage-valve.html


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Mar 2014)

Muse said:


> Dont know the brand but it this one: http://fish.aquaristic.net/CO2-Pressure-reducer-with-2-Manometer-dosage-valve.html




Looks like an old lunapet model, although I've never owned one, can somebody verify?

It should be absolutely capable of 3 bar and very safe, if it is adjustable of course!


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## hotweldfire (4 Aug 2014)

Apologies for the thread necromancy but can I clarify that it is OK to run 3 bar on a standard in tank ceramic diffuser? I installed a neutro 200 in tank from AE yesterday and the bubbles seem rather big and moving to the surface at an alarming rate. At the same time my DC (and I know I shouldn't rely on these things), which is in the same place with the co2 coming on at the same time, and going off at the same time, is now showing a mid to dark green where previously it was verging on the yellow. Same bubble rate obviously (actually slightly higher). Flow in the tank is now quite a lot higher than it was too.

I was thinking, as per this thread, that if I increase pressure but kept bubble rate the same I might get finer bubbles as the pressure would force the co2 through smaller holes. At the moment they are not coming out of the whole of the disc, just round the edges. Currently running at 1.5 bar.

My JBL reg can do up to 4 bar. How high can I run it on an in tank ceramic diffuser. Or is the diffuser not the limiting factor but rather the reg?


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## Andy Thurston (4 Aug 2014)

The highest i dared go with my ceramic in tank diffuser was 2.5bar. I did this for the same reason as you because of big bubbles but found it made very little difference. If it had made the bubbles significantly smaller i might have been tempted to push it further. Have you tried cleaning the diffuser?


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## hotweldfire (4 Aug 2014)

Brand spanking new


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Aug 2014)

Is it a bazooka type? If so mines running on 3-3.5 bar on an intense Reg. 
Excellent bits of kit.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Aug 2014)




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## hotweldfire (4 Aug 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Is it a bazooka type? If so mines running on 3-3.5 bar on an intense Reg.
> Excellent bits of kit.



Nah. Standard large in tank ceramic glass number. 

I was just reading about these bazookas on another thread and am considering buying one. They need some kind of special stop valve, no? 

However, I've got to say that I'm uncomfortable running on very high pressures as I think it contributes to big fluctuations when my bottle runs low. Crappy JBL reg.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Aug 2014)

Yeah, ditch the Jbl.

I've got one of these to replace. At 2.5bar  jbl seems to back up and leak from the needle valve. Just not intended for the pressures. 

This one was £90 from co2art with solenoid, is far superior to jbl build quality, has HAND TIGHTENING (so easy!) and will run upto 6bar.


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## Andy Thurston (4 Aug 2014)

Sounds like you need one of these


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (4 Aug 2014)

Big clown said:


> Sounds like you need one of these



Now bertha


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## Andy Thurston (4 Aug 2014)

Serious overkill, you could deliver co2 to a swimming pool with that beast, I'm saving for a brand new smaller boc reg or similar


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## hotweldfire (6 Aug 2014)

What about this one? 

 http://www.co2art.co.uk/collection...-regulator-and-german-solenoid-and-smc-valve 

Also could I lie the bottle on its side when using this reg? One of the main reasons I use the jbl is that the disposable bottles are small enough to fit into my awkward cabinet upright.


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## Andy Thurston (6 Aug 2014)

Co2 needs to be stood upright so liquid co2 doesnt come through your reg and into the pipework. You can buy an adapter to still use disposable welding co2 or sodastream if you want[DOUBLEPOST=1407345048][/DOUBLEPOST]Theres quite a few people using that reg on here and its very highly regarded


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## hotweldfire (7 Aug 2014)

Understood but I thought a dual stage reg got round that problem.


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## Andy Thurston (7 Aug 2014)

No the dual stage reg prevents end of tank dump not liquid entering the system


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## ian_m (7 Aug 2014)

Big clown said:


> Co2 needs to be stood upright so liquid co2 doesnt come through your reg and into the pipework.


Not quite, there is a dip tube in FE's so that when used as an FE liquid comes out when "fired". Mine ran for months on its side parked in a magazine rack, no problem.


Liquid CO2 getting into the regulator is not an issue as CO2 it taken off at such a low rate, ie 4 months to empty compare to 20 seconds for a fire.


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## Andy Thurston (7 Aug 2014)

If you want to take that chance thats your choice, personally im not going to risk £120 worth of reg maybe if it were some crappy chinese on i'd probably take that chance. It doesnt matter to me because i can get a 5kg upright in my cabinet
Like you say in the small amounts we use theres enough room for the co2 evaporate before it gets to the reg in a fe dip tube and if laid down with outlet pointing up theres enough room between the fe and reg body for that evaporation to happen. What happens when the liquid can run downhill freely into the reg, eg. if it gets knocked accidentally or other half moves it when your not around, does it still not happen? Are you prepared to try it?


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## ian_m (7 Aug 2014)

I tried it. Remove outlet pipe, turn on solenoid on regulator. Masses of gas escapes, but most importantly regulator does not get cold, I assume any liquid CO2 has turned to gas way before it gets near the regulator, it certainly has to pass via the massive heat capacity of the FE valve first.


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