# Is my tap water ok.



## Lee iley (27 Aug 2018)

Hi guys I am new to the site.
I have put my post code in United utilities for a report on my water and it has come back has hardness Clarke of 7.14 slightly hard. Is this ok for red cherry shrimp, amano shrimp, neon tetras, and cardinal tetras and other types of tetras also I have attached the full report bit it doesn't tell me what the ph is any help would be great thank you.


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## PARAGUAY (27 Aug 2018)

United Utilities water is described soft to very soft in most areas( watch the lather in the washing up bowl) so you can add a GH boost example TNC to remineralise or Seachem have similar product to re add calcium and magnesium to benefit. plants,coming from the wild  quite a lot of tetras prefer soft water, many tank bred now are happy in soft and moderately  hard.Take a look at the Journals quite a few tanks with shrimp.If you have any concerns UU technical usually helpful


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (28 Aug 2018)

I'm not that far from you and have very similar water and have kept all those species just fine


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## Lee iley (28 Aug 2018)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> I'm not that far from you and have very similar water and have kept all those species just fine


That's good to know then thanks for the reply. We're abouts are you I'm preston.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (28 Aug 2018)

Forton near Lancaster


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## Lee iley (28 Aug 2018)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Forton near Lancaster


Cool not far at all then. Nice place aswel forton.


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## Lee iley (3 Sep 2018)

How can I find out what my tds is on my water results as I can't see it on the pics above I have posted. Thanks.


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Sep 2018)

The conductivity is the same thing just Google the equation to convert it to tds. 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (3 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Iain Sutherland said:


> The conductivity is the same thing just Google the equation to convert it to tds.


PPM TDS is about 2/3 of the conductivity value in microS (/ cm), so 100 microS ~ 64 ppm TDS. 

cheers Darrel


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## Parablennius (3 Sep 2018)

Hi
I have very good water too. LA4 postcode. Usually reads 45 TDS, 3 or 4 GH and 1 KH but since the drought these three values have doubled, I suppose it's being blended with harder water from another supply? It's starting to go down again now but probably take some time to clear the system.
cheers


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (3 Sep 2018)

Im in the same boat as you both... went a walk this weekend near a water reservoir.  It was nearly empty still (though filling from previous visits) so it may take some time for the water values to get back to normal.


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## Lee iley (3 Sep 2018)

Iain Sutherland said:


> The conductivity is the same thing just Google the equation to convert it to tds. Sorry
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk





dw1305 said:


> Hi all, PPM TDS is about 2/3 of the conductivity value in microS (/ cm), so 100 microS ~ 64 ppm TDS.
> Sorry if I sound stupid but you have totally lost me with this haha.
> cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (3 Sep 2018)

Parablennius said:


> Hi
> I have very good water too. LA4 postcode. Usually reads 45 TDS, 3 or 4 GH and 1 KH but since the drought these three values have doubled, I suppose it's being blended with harder water from another supply? It's starting to go down again now but probably take some time to clear the system.
> cheers


I take it my water is near the same as yours then is it.


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## dw1305 (3 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> ...but you have totally lost me with this haha


It is straightforward enough, but ppm TDS (parts per million Total Dissolved Solids) is a strange measurement.

To measure it accurately you have to filter the water and then evaporate a known weight of water to dryness. The water company will have done this, but usually ppm TDS is estimated from the electrical conductivity of the water.

If you took of a cup of sea-water, as it dried the sea salt (NaCl mainly), which had been in solution as ions (Na+ and Cl-), would crystallise out as the water (H2O) evaporated. The salt is a "dissolved solid".

It is the same process in fresh-water, but there *are a lot less salt(s)*.

If you evaporate de-ionised water (pure H2O) you wouldn't have any dissolved solids, and it wouldn't conduct electricity (it doesn't have any ions), but usually what we call "water" is a dilute solution, with water as the solvent. In sea-water we have a lot of ions (salts in solution) so it conducts electricity very well. The electrical conductivity of pure water is 0 microS and sea-water is 53,000 microS, and it is a linear scale between 0 and 53,000.

Conductivity measurements only measures ions, but normally they are the major contributors to TDS. You can have a dissolved non-ionic solid (like the dissolved sugar in your cup of tea, or the tannins from bog-wood) but, because most of the dissolved solids in water are ions, conductivity is reasonably well correlated with TDS.

If you have 100 microS conductivity that is equivalent to ~64 ppm TDS, assuming that Ca++ and HCO3- (from limestone CaCO3) are the major ions in fresh-water (and that is a pretty fair assumption).

Your minimum, average and maximum figures for conductivity (in microS), in your water report, are 157, 250 and 405, which are approximately 100, 150 and 260 ppm TDS (157*0.64 = 100.5 etc.).

As @Parablennius suggests that is a lot of variation in water hardness, so you have supplies from more than one source. Because you have virtually no nitrate  in your supply the harder water is almost certainly from a deep limestone aquifer, and the softer water from a moorland reservoir.

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (3 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It is straightforward enough, but ppm TDS (parts per million Total Dissolved Solids) is a strange measurement.
> 
> To measure it accurately you have to filter the water and then evaporate a known weight of water to dryness. The water company will have done this, but usually ppm TDS is estimated from the electrical conductivity of the water.
> 
> ...


Youvreally do know your stuff that is for the reply I am slowly learning I have had fish for years but it's now I really want to get with it and have a nice planted healthy aquarium. So are ppm and tds measured the same. Is my water ok then as it is?


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## Lee iley (3 Sep 2018)

Sorry to be a pain guys were are you getting these figures from if I am to look at my report which ones to I look at to get the tds rating if you know what I mean. I really am sorry I'm just trying to learn


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## dw1305 (4 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> Youvreally do know your stuff


Thank you, it is part of my "day job". You don't need to understand all the science, but if you understand some of it it makes decision making a lot easier. 

It is a bit like when your talking about football in the pub, you realise that some of your mates actually understand the game and some don't. So if any-one is a West Ham fan, you can't play Sanches, Noble and Wilshere in midfield together because they can't run. 





Lee iley said:


> Is my water ok then as it is?


Yes it is absolutely fine, the low nitrate reading tells you that it is a pretty clean supply. 





Lee iley said:


> which ones to I look at to get the tds rating if you know what I mean.


It is the conductivity reading in screen shot 2.





Lee iley said:


> I have had fish for years but it's now I really want to get with it and have a nice planted healthy aquarium


That is the thing that a lot of fish keepers don't get, plants aren't just an ornament in the tank, they are the major factor that makes keeping fish easier.

cheers Darrel


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## Parablennius (4 Sep 2018)

Lee iley said:


> I take it my water is near the same as yours then is it.


May not be. I think my water comes from Cumbrian tarns and they've recently been adding harder water from a river, maybe Yorkshire Dales area. Some of the streams there are very hard, through or across limestone.


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Thank you, it is part of my "day job". You don't need to understand all the science, but if you understand some of it it makes decision making a lot easier.
> 
> It is a bit like when your talking about football in the pub, you realise that some of your mates actually understand the game and some don't. So if any-one is a West Ham fan, you can't play Sanches, Noble and Wilshere in midfield together because they can't run. Yes it is absolutely fine, the low nitrate reading tells you that it is a pretty clean supply. It is the conductivity reading in screen shot 2.That is the thing that a lot of fish keepers don't get, plants aren't just an ornament in the tank, they are the major factor that makes keeping fish easier.
> 
> cheers Darrel


 thank you for the reply means a lot. I'm glad the water is ok then. How would I work  my tds rating out with the numbers on my chart to get the reading you got for me can I do it by calculater?


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

Parablennius said:


> May not be. I think my water comes from Cumbrian tarns and they've recently been adding harder water from a river, maybe Yorkshire Dales area. Some of the streams there are very hard, through or across limestone.


Ah right fair enough I take it the hot weather we have had hasn't helped then


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## tam (4 Sep 2018)

The fish will be happy with those. Just keep an eye on the shrimp, any moulting issues and they might benefit from a GH booster. It's good water to have as starting soft it's much easier to add more 'stuff' in if you want it, rather than having hardwater and taking stuff out.


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

tam said:


> The fish will be happy with those. Just keep an eye on the shrimp, any moulting issues and they might benefit from a GH booster. It's good water to have as starting soft it's much easier to add more 'stuff' in if you want it, rather than having hardwater and taking stuff out.


How will I know if I have moulting problems the shrimp are moulting at the min and have have had shrimplets but I have lost 4 shrimp also.


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## dw1305 (4 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> How would I work my tds rating out with the numbers on my chart to get the reading you got for me can I do it by calculater?


Yes, just multiply the conductivity value (in microS. (/cm)) by 0.64, and the number you get is the approximation to TDS in ppm. If you want to go from ppm TDS to conductivity in microS divide by 0.64

So 100 microS is equivalent to 64ppm TDS and 100ppm TDS is equivalent to 156 microS.

cheers Darrel


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## tam (4 Sep 2018)

Lee iley said:


> How will I know if I have moulting problems the shrimp are moulting at the min and have have had shrimplets but I have lost 4 shrimp also.



They get what looks like a split across their backs ready to moult but aren't able to complete it and pass away.


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Yes, just multiply the conductivity value (in microS. (/cm)) by 0.64, and the number you get is the approximation to TDS in ppm. If you want to go from ppm TDS to conductivity in microS divide by 0.64
> 
> So 100 microS is equivalent to 64ppm TDS and 100ppm TDS is equivalent to 156 microS.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thank you Darrel


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

tam said:


> They get what looks like a split across their backs ready to moult but aren't able to complete it and pass away.


Do they moult through the whole like span. And by looking at my water chart which one is for my kh and gh and what be best gh for my water.


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## Parablennius (4 Sep 2018)

Hi,
all crustaceans have to moult their exoskeleton to grow. After they moult they take on lots of water to swell the new, soft skin that's exposed. they use any hardness, minerals etc to harden the new exoskeleton 'till next time. When dealing with crustacea you would be surprised at the % increase in body bulk.
HTH


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

Parablennius said:


> Hi,
> all crustaceans have to moult their exoskeleton to grow. After they moult they take on lots of water to swell the new, soft skin that's exposed. they use any hardness, minerals etc to harden the new exoskeleton 'till next time. When dealing with crustacea you would be surprised at the % increase in body bulk.
> HTH


 how often do they moult there shell?


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Yes, just multiply the conductivity value (in microS. (/cm)) by 0.64, and the number you get is the approximation to TDS in ppm. If you want to go from ppm TDS to conductivity in microS divide by 0.64
> 
> So 100 microS is equivalent to 64ppm TDS and 100ppm TDS is equivalent to 156 microS.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Would you know on my water report which one tells me my gh and kh and what should I be aiming for on my gh for my shrimp? Also how do I do this on the calculater for my tds reading (/cm)) i dont understand it sorry for sounding thick. Im just trying to get my head around it. Thanks lee.


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## dw1305 (4 Sep 2018)

Hi all,





Lee iley said:


> Would you know on my water report which one tells me my gh and kh and what should I be aiming for on my gh for my shrimp? Also how do I do this on the calculater for my tds reading (/cm))


The degree hardness is English or "degree Clark", you can get a conversion <"page here">, so the given value of 7.14 degrees Clark is ~5.75 dGH/dKH.

1.24 degrees English ("Clark") is equivalent to 1 degree "German", dKH/dGH.





Lee iley said:


> Also how do I do this on the calculater for my tds reading (/cm))


You can't directly, but you also have a value for calcium, 30.8 mg/L (30.8 ppm). I won't put all the working down here (they are in <"How do I work out.....">), but the 31 ppm Ca is equivalent to ~4.3 dKH, so the remaining 1.4 dGH is probably magnesium (Mg). The derivation of degree of hardness is a bit strange, have a look at this thread <"How to find out....">.





Lee iley said:


> what should I be aiming for on my gh for my shrimp?


Depends on the shrimp, Amano and Cherry shrimps like hard water, Crystal Red shrimps much softer water. 

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (4 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,The degree hardness is English or "degree Clark", you can get a conversion <"page here">, so the given value of 7.14 degrees Clark is ~5.75 dGH/dKH.
> 
> 1.24 degrees English ("Clark") is equivalent to 1 degree "German", dKH/dGH.You can't directly, but you also have a value for calcium, 30.8 mg/L (30.8 ppm). I won't put all the working down here (they are in <"How do I work out.....">), but the 31 ppm Ca is equivalent to ~4.3 dKH, so the remaining 1.4 dGH is probably magnesium (Mg). The derivation of degree of hardness is a bit strange, have a look at this thread <"How to find out....">.Depends on the shrimp, Amano and Cherry shrimps like hard water, Crystal Red shrimps much softer water.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Wow you are really good with this stuff. I'm slowly learning all the time now thanks to you so thank you. Well I have amano and cherry shrimp so will my gh and 7.14 hardness Clarke be ok for these guys as tam pointed out I might need a gh booster. Also german Clarke and English Clarke why is there 2 do we follow the English Clarke or both? Thanks   lee


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## dw1305 (4 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> Also german Clarke and English Clarke why is there 2 do we follow the English Clarke or both?


 In fish-keeping usually hardness is quoted in German Degrees (dGH/dKH) that is why it is a K rather than a C, "Karbonathärte" in German.

Scientists don't really use any of the measures (they just mg/L). 





Lee iley said:


> Well I have amano and cherry shrimp so will my gh and 7.14 hardness Clarke be ok for these guys as tam pointed out I might need a gh booster


You can harden the water, if you don't want to go down the gh booster route you can just use one of the calcium carbonate options from the <"Do I need to add calcium...."> thread.

I think a piece of Cuttle-bone (like you would give a Budgie) might be a good option. 

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,  In fish-keeping usually hardness is quoted in German Degrees (dGH/dKH) that is why it is a K rather than a C, "Karbonathärte" in German.
> 
> Scientists don't really use any of the measures (they just mg/L). You can harden the water, if you don't want to go down the gh booster route you can just use one of the calcium carbonate options from the <"Do I need to add calcium...."> thread.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you Darrel how often should I use a cuttle bone when should I change it. Also I take it my water isn't hard enough for the shrimp? Cheers Lee


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

Does dGH/dKH stand for degrees general hardness karbonate hardness? And also Is my gh 5.75 then and if so is my water not hard enough for the cheerys and amanos then but ok for crystal shrimp? What about French Clarke do we need to follow that? Cheers lee


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## dw1305 (5 Sep 2018)

Hi all,


Lee iley said:


> Does dGH/dKH stand for degrees general hardness karbonate hardness?


Yes dGH is the general or "permanent" hardness (Ca++ & Mg++ ions)  measured in degrees German, dKH "temporary" hardness (carbonate ions) measured in degrees German.

The permanent and temporary bits just mean that you can remove the temporary hardness by boiling the water, but this doesn't effect the "permanent"  hardness.


Lee iley said:


> What about French Clarke do we need to follow that?


No, just use the <"Lenntech converter">, in the aquarium hobby hardness is nearly always quoted in German units.


Lee iley said:


> should I use a cuttle bone when should I change it


I wouldn't change it, it will eventually dissolved and the shrimps (and snails) will have a pick at it.


Lee iley said:


> Also I take it my water isn't hard enough for the shrimp?


I don't know, I eventually lost my Cherry shrimps, but this was due to a combination of feeding too many of them to the Cichlids and the water getting softer. I don't measure anything other than conductivity in the tanks, so I don't know what the hardness was, but we were probably down to 1 or 2 dGH/dKH.


Lee iley said:


> then but ok for crystal shrimp?


I haven't kept these, but they definitely like <"cooler, softer water">.

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Yes dGH is the general or "permanent" hardness (Ca++ & Mg++ ions)  measured in degrees German, dKH "temporary" hardness (carbonate ions) measured in degrees German.
> 
> The permanent and temporary bits just mean that you can remove the temporary hardness by boiling the water, but this doesn't effect the "permanent"  hardness. No, just use the <"Lenntech converter">, in the aquarium hobby hardness is nearly always quoted in German units. I wouldn't change it, it will eventually dissolved and the shrimps (and snails) will have a pick at it. I don't know, I eventually lost my Cherry shrimps, but this was due to a combination of feeding too many of them to the Cichlids and the water getting softer. I don't measure anything other than conductivity in the tanks, so I don't know what the hardness was, but we were probably down to 1 or 2 dGH/dKH.I've kept these but they definitely like <"cooler, softer water">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


 thank you again Darrel sooty to batter you with all these questions. Do I out the cuttle bone in my filter? Once it desolves do I out a new one in? Thanks lee.


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## dw1305 (5 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> Do I out the cuttle bone in my filter?


You can put it in the tank or the filter, I'd probably go for a couple of bits tucked away in the tank somewhere.





Lee iley said:


> Once it desolves do I out a new one in?


Yes.

cheers Darrel


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## tam (5 Sep 2018)

For cherry shrimp, I think GH 6 (6dGH) is usually the recommended minimum so you are right on the borderline. Darrel's suggestions are all good. If you google shrimp moulting problems you should find some photos that will help you know what to look out for.


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

tam said:


> For cherry shrimp, I think GH 6 (6dGH) is usually the recommended minimum so you are right on the borderline. Darrel's suggestions are all good. If you google shrimp moulting problems you should find some photos that will help you know what to look out for.


Thank you tam. I will have a look when I get bk from work.


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, You can put it in the tank or the filter, I'd probably go for a couple of bits tucked away in the tank somewhere.Yes.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thank you Darrel.


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## dw1305 (5 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





dw1305 said:


> I've kept these but they definitely like <"cooler, softer water">.


That bit should have said "_I haven't kept these......._".

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (5 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,  In fish-keeping usually hardness is quoted in German Degrees (dGH/dKH) that is why it is a K rather than a C, "Karbonathärte" in German.
> 
> Scientists don't really use any of the measures (they just mg/L). You can harden the water, if you don't want to go down the gh booster route you can just use one of the calcium carbonate options from the <"Do I need to add calcium...."> thread.
> 
> ...


Hi Darrel some in my water report my 7.14 hardness Clarke once I have converted that to german dkh that is my gh? So now I have solved that how do I get my tds reading or does that not really matter. Thanks lee


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## Parablennius (5 Sep 2018)

Lee iley said:


> how often do they moult there shell?


Moults of crustacea in the wild depend on a variety of factors including temp, photoperiod, food, seasons  and probably available minerals. Also, at least where crabs are concerned, females can only be inseminated as the female moults and is available. This is why you see pics of crabs being " carried" by another, waiting for the " moment critique" as it were. In the lab, crabs have been shown to moult when their eye stalks were removed, obviously a photoperiod/ hormone issue.( not that I would condone this activity, of course). I don't actually keep freshwater crustacea but have kept marine, native and tropical for years. Also worth keeping in mind that species have varying ratios of calcium in their exoskeleton, compare a shrimp to a lobster, for example.
Cheers


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## dw1305 (6 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> how do I get my tds reading or does that not really matter


It doesn't really matter,  you would need a low range conductivity (TDS) meter to measure it in the tank. Have a look at <"new to this..."> and <"Still very confused......">.

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (6 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It doesn't really matter,  you would need a low range conductivity (TDS) meter to measure it in the tank. Have a look at <"new to this..."> and <"Still very confused......">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hi Darrel what do you mean I would need a low range conductivity tds meter to measure in the tank? I thought my tds was low? Also are kh and Gh measured the same? So for example my gh 5.7 I think will that be the same for my Kh also if it wasn't for you I wouldn't know about these things so thank you for your help it means a lot. Cheers Lee.


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## dw1305 (6 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> So for example my gh 5.7 I think will that be the same for my Kh


Yes it should be, because your source of hardness is from dissolved limestone CaCO3 which is usual in the UK. You've added 1:1 Ca (measured as dGH) and CO3 (measured as dKH).

If you added calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) it would raise dGH, but not dKH, and potassium bicabonate (KHCO3) would raises dKH, but not dGH.





Lee iley said:


> Darrel what do you mean I would need a low range conductivity tds meter to measure in the tank?


You can measure the TDS in the tank water easily using an electronic conductivity meter, it doesn't tell you wnich ions you have, but it tells you the total amount.

Conductivity meters sold for hydroponics often measure up to 19,000 microS, but you need a low range meter that ranges up to 1999 microS.  If you set the measurement unit to "ppm TDS", the machine multiplies the conductivity value by 0.64.

The reason for measuring conductivity is that you have a tap supply which varies through the year (from the report you had minimum amd maximum conductivity values of 160 microS and 405 microS), but only one hardness value "5.7", presumably an average. Because your conductivity value changed through the year it  is likely that sometimes the hardness value in your tap water was higher than 5.7 and sometimes it was lower.

I use rain-water in the tanks, this is also variable, higher conductivity/dGH/dKH in the summer (when it doesn't rain as much and it is dusty) and lower in the winter. The lowest rain-water value I've ever measured was ~30 microS and the highest ~150microS. I have a tap supply that comes from a deep limestone aquifer and the conductivity is always in the range 650 - 750 microS, and the hardness somewhere around 17dKH, it only changes a very small amount through the year.

I know now to add a dash of tap water (adds TDS, dGH & dKH) to the water changes in the winter, and a dash of RO water in the summer.

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (6 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> you added calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) it would raise dGH, but not dKH, and potassium bicabonate (KHCO3) would raises dKH, but not dGH.


Does kh matter like gh does or not? Do I need to worry about my kh? Cheers lee


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## Lee iley (6 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Yes it should be, because your source of hardness is from dissolved limestone CaCO3 which is usual in the UK. You've added 1:1 Ca (measured as dGH) and CO3 (measured as dKH).
> 
> If you added calcium chloride (CaCl2.6H2O) it would raise dGH, but not dKH, and potassium bicabonate (KHCO3) would raises dKH, but not dGH.You can measure the TDS in the tank water easily using an electronic conductivity meter, it doesn't tell you wnich ions you have, but it tells you the total amount.
> 
> ...


Do I need to measure tds out of my tank? Or can I just go off my water report? Cheers lee


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## dw1305 (6 Sep 2018)

Hi all, 





Lee iley said:


> Does kh matter like gh does or not? Do I need to worry about my kh?


I'm not sure for shrimps, some-one else will know. Usually they go up together, because the source of both is limestone. 





Lee iley said:


> Do I need to measure tds out of my tank? Or can I just go off my water report?


It will change from the value on the water report dependent on the mix of water sources. A TDS meter will give you some idea, as the water gets harder the TDS value will go up, and as it gets softer it will go down. 

If you don't mind having snails in the tank you can use the shell of a snail as a good indicator of the hardness of the water (both dGH/dKH), the shell will lose colour if the water is soft or the pH below pH7.  

Malaysian Trumpet Snails, Red Ramshorn and Tadpole snails are all reasonably tolerant of soft water, but most of the other snails (Nerites, Assassin Snails etc.) aren't.

cheers Darrel


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## Lee iley (6 Sep 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I'm not sure for shrimps, some-one else will know. Usually they go up together, because the source of both is limestone. It will change from the value on the water report dependent on the mix of water sources. A TDS meter will give you some idea, as the water gets harder the TDS value will go up, and as it gets softer it will go down.
> 
> If you don't mind having snails in the tank you can use the shell of a snail as a good indicator of the hardness of the water (both dGH/dKH), the shell will lose colour if the water is soft or the pH below pH7.
> 
> ...


How much are the metres Darrel and were can I get one from? Also with the tds going up and down through the year what does that mean for my live stock? Will it not matter to them does tds effect gh/kh or not? I don't think my ph drops below 7 according to my water report. What do you do when your goes up and down? Cheers lee


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