# disaster !!!



## DarrenMT10 (11 Apr 2020)

ok so the tropica plants i ordered arrived today so great i thought all set to get my tank started so planted my plants etc filled tank added new media to my filter fitted the new aquarium heater etc all going great....
 untill i primed the filter and started it working great at first ....
untill i noticed its leaking from one of the sides i think it must be a stress fracture or something in the caseing so now ive got a planted tank filled with water and no filter !!!!!
so due to this virus buisness  ive been forced to order a replacement filter from the internet that may not turn up till thursday 16th
how long are my plants going to survive without the filter (have i just wasted the best part of 70 quid on plants )
also do i leave the heater running i cant see it doing much good as there is no water movement !!!
HELP ...


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## GHNelson (11 Apr 2020)

Hi Darren
Your probably best keeping them in the emersed state if possible?
Drain the aquarium...to a few inches and enclose the top of the aquarium with clingfilm.
This is to keep the moisture in!
hoggie


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## DarrenMT10 (11 Apr 2020)

ok will do that right now thank matey usually id pop over to shirley aquatics and buy one straight away but due to this virus it way too far away to travel i phoned every pet supply shop for miles but none can supply me one before the 25th lucky Amazon saved the day and said they can get one to me thursday !!! maybe sooner fingers crossed ..
should i turn the heater off too


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## GHNelson (11 Apr 2020)

I would keep it on,as you have already planted the plants....if you have a air pump with a air stone that would help distributing the heat of the heater!


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## jaypeecee (11 Apr 2020)

Hi @DarrenMT10

You said:


DarrenMT10 said:


> ...so now ive got a planted tank filled with water and no filter !!!!!...how long are my plants going to survive without the filter...



The plants don't strictly need the _filter_, unless I'm overlooking something. But, _flow_ is very important. Are you using CO2 and lighting?

JPC


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## alto (11 Apr 2020)

Lots of details missing

CO2?
Tank dimensions?
Plant species? - some will be happier with a “dry start” (but some will also demand virtually no standing water), others with water (depth to be determined - usually sans filter, a higher surface are to volume ratio is “better”)


Depending upon details, I’d choose
- Dry start 
- 100% daily water change with cooler water (more dissolved gases), no heater, 5-6h light


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## Witcher (11 Apr 2020)

I'd definitely go with one of @hogan53 suggestions: either keep them emersed and moisturized or (my preferred option) use air pump with couple of air stones moving the water plus very limited ferts, probably only potassium and lower amount of light for the time being.


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## GHNelson (11 Apr 2020)

As Darren has only just planted the Tropica plants....hopefully he will save most of them!
Basically its a mid transition to fully submersed...which might work out well.
Depends on the plants....needing a quick fix, that would save his plants!
I thought this would be his best course of action.
Some stems may lose their leaves, hopefully they can bounce back with some TLC!
Cheers
hoggie


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## DarrenMT10 (12 Apr 2020)

thanks guys i have drained my Tank to a few inches above the plants left heater on and i found an old power head from another tank and have set that up to move the water around a bit.

ok tank is a fluval Roma 200ltr
i choose all easy plants from the tropica range as im going for a low tec set up no co2 etc
i have some tropica premium plant care but the instructions on the tropica app said not to use for the first couple of days as the plants came with their own food ? im guessing they mean the jelly stuff they were in.
as for the lighting i have 2 t8 tubes 30w one powerglo and one aquaglo i have it set on a time to turn them on for 6hrs a day for now as adviced in the tropica app should i stick to that or should i lessen the amount of time the lights are on ?

Thanks for your help peeps i hope that is enough details ?

darren


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## DarrenMT10 (12 Apr 2020)

ooops forgot plant species 
lilaeopsis brasiliensis
cryptocoryne wendii
nymphoides spec.taiwan
hydrophylla taiwan


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## Fisher2007 (12 Apr 2020)

How bad is the leak on the filter?  How much water is it losing?


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## DarrenMT10 (12 Apr 2020)

Fisher2007 said:


> How bad is the leak on the filter?  How much water is it losing?


a lot its leaking from two corners i also suspect the o ring is buggered too. enought that i needed to run upstairs and grab a Bath towel to soak it up as it was quite a large puddle i also made sure to grab the dogs bath towel so as not to to face the wraith of my wife lol tbh i thinkthe filter is fubar .. if i lose plants and have to buy more i guess thats what i will have to do..
lesson learned allways double check equipment when using old used stuff in future..


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## dw1305 (12 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 





DarrenMT10 said:


> ooops forgot plant species
> lilaeopsis brasiliensis
> cryptocoryne wendii
> nymphoides spec.taiwan
> hydrophylla taiwan





DarrenMT10 said:


> thanks guys i have drained my Tank to a few inches above the plants left heater on and i found an old power head from another tank and have set that up to move the water around a bit.


I think you should be fine. 

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (12 Apr 2020)

alto said:


> ...some will be happier with a “dry start”...



For my benefit, can anyone explain what is meant by a 'dry start'? Does it simply mean that the plant roots are kept moist but the plant is not submerged in water?

Thanks.

JPC


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## GHNelson (12 Apr 2020)

Yes.....nearly all aquarium plants are grown hydroponically!
They are probably misted every so often...also.
That's why you must be vigilant when starting a new set - up, for leaf melt!
As those leaves that are melting or shedding....will foul the aquarium water.
Cryptocoryne are a classic example....although most plants do it eventually...when transforming to underwater life!
Cheers
hoggie


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## dw1305 (12 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 





jaypeecee said:


> Does it simply mean that the plant roots are kept moist but the plant is not submerged in water?


Yes. Because the majority of aquarium plants are produced emersed, they can be <"rooted and will grow in a moist atmosphere">.

A <"lot of "aquarium" plants"> are a lot happier out of the water. There are some obligate aquatic plants that can't be dry started, _Vallisneria, Blyxa & Cabomba_ spp. are ones that come to mind, but there will be others.

Java Fern technically can but needs *very *humid conditions.

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (12 Apr 2020)

Many thanks, @hogan53 and @dw1305 but, just to complete my school lesson for today, exactly what is an obligate aquatic plant?

JPC


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (12 Apr 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Many thanks, @hogan53 and @dw1305 but, just to complete my school lesson for today, exactly what is an obligate aquatic plant?
> 
> JPC


“Obligate” simply means that something is required. So an obligate aquatic plant is one that must grow in water.

Occasionally you also see the word used in relation to animal diets. Cats, for example, are obligate carnivores - they must eat meat, because there are certain important substances that they can’t synthesise so they have to ingest it in meat. But dogs are not; they can make do without meat.


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## jaypeecee (12 Apr 2020)

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:


> So an obligate aquatic plant is one that must grow in water.



Hi @Dr Mike Oxgreen 

And, just to be 100% clear, does that mean a plant that is totally submerged in water? What about emersed plants? I can almost hear people yawning (or screaming) as I ask this question. But, I promise I'll leave it at that! 

JPC


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## GHNelson (12 Apr 2020)

Yes!
The plants Darrel stated cannot be grown emersed!
_Vallisneria, Blyxa & Cabomba_ spp. are ones that come to mind, but there will be others.
These are true aquatic plants therefore will not survive without being underwater!
hoggie


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## dw1305 (12 Apr 2020)

Hi all, 





jaypeecee said:


> a plant that is totally submerged in water?


Yes what @hogan53 says, so that is a plant that grows beneath the water, it may produce a flower that emerges at the water surface, like _Blyxa spp._ and /or it might eventually produce floating leaves and flowers like _Cabomba_ spp., but it can't grow emersed, can't support itself in the air, doesn't have a thickened cuticle or stomata  and doesn't have any secondary thickening etc.





jaypeecee said:


> What about emersed plants? I can almost hear people yawning (or screaming) as I ask this question. But, I promise I'll leave it at that!


So a lot of plants spend some time submerged and sometime in the air, it maybe a regular seasonal thing or it may be on a more _ad hoc_ basis. A lot of these will grow absolutely fine in wet soil, they don't need the support of the water. These are plants like _Hygrophila corymbosa, Rotala rotundifolia_ etc

An example from the UK is a somewhat surprising one, but Creeping Buttercup (_Ranunculus repens_) can survive <"low down in turloughs">, where it may not be exposed to teh air for very considerable time periods. I've seen it myself flowering in the summer in places which would have been 6 - 7m underwater in the winter.

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (12 Apr 2020)

Hi @hogan53 and @dw1305

Many thanks, guys, for persisting with me. I am now left in no doubt about the meaning of "obligate aquatic plants".

JPC


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (12 Apr 2020)

Yep, my understanding of “obligate aquatic” is that the plant must be completely submersed. Another example that springs to mind is hornwort - as far as I know that doesn’t have an emersed form; it simply dies out of water. (That said, I believe it belongs to the phylum of flowering plants - so, er, how does it flower?)


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## jaypeecee (12 Apr 2020)

Hi @Dr Mike Oxgreen 

Thanks to you too for helping me understand this plant terminology.

JPC


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## kilnakorr (12 Apr 2020)

Not sure what filter you have. Was the two corners it leaked from opposite or on the same side?


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## sparkyweasel (12 Apr 2020)

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:


> (That said, I believe it belongs to the phylum of flowering plants - so, er, how does it flower?)


The flowers are tiny and green, so you may have had hornwort flowering in your tanks without even noticing. They don't need to be showy as they don't attract insects for pollination. Not sure if hornwort is one of them, but some plants that flower underwater release the pollen into the water to find another flower to pollinate, like some land plants release pollen into the air for the breeze to carry it off.


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## rubadudbdub (16 Apr 2020)

Assuming it is the filter body that is cracked its worth trying to repair it. You have nothing to loose apart from time and a couple of quid in acetone.

Eheims are made of ABS plastic, not sure about fluval. You can repair ABS with pure acetone, which you can get from boots from behind the pharmacy counter.  Nail varnish remover is mostly acetone, but with additives, not sure if these cause issues.

If it's a hairline crack either use a soft paint brush or needle and syringe and coat the crack inside and out with acetone. It'll wick into the crack. Tie something round the filter to compress the edges together, belt, cord etc. Leave it overnight and test it.  The acetone fuses the edges together.  You'll see it make the abs edges sticky.

I bought some 0.5mm abs sheet to patch over the crack. Cut a square, coat the surface and abs with acetone and compress them together.

I've done this with a cracked eheim pump head and it worked. I've also used it last week on a hozelock garden hose fitting that must have frozen over winter and cracked. The latter still weeps but it's no longer a sprinkler.

This may get to you after your new filter arrives, but in case it doesn't I thought I'd share it.

FYI I ran the leaking/weeping eheim sat in a small plastic bin until I could fix it.  It ran like this for a couple of weeks. Just be careful re water/electrics.


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## DarrenMT10 (16 Apr 2020)

it was an allponds soloution er1 and i think the oring is fubar too anyway i have a fluval arriving today and some biohome filter media as i prefer that to the ceramic rings etc.
ive been doing water changes every day and keeping lights to a min im happy to say plants are doing fine so far ive had one or two leaves removed but most are allready showing signs of growth. buy the end of today the new filter will be up and running..
thanks again for all the advice and help guys


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## Barbara Turner (16 Apr 2020)

DarrenMT10 said:


> a lot its leaking from two corners i also suspect the o ring is buggered too. enought that i needed to run upstairs and grab a Bath towel to soak it up as it was quite a large puddle i also made sure to grab the dogs bath towel so as not to to face the wraith of my wife lol tbh i thinkthe filter is fubar .. if i lose plants and have to buy more i guess thats what i will have to do..
> lesson learned allways double check equipment when using old used stuff in future..



I would attack it with acetone and silicone sealant, the gorilla sealant is excellent and clinging to plastic. If you only need it to run for a short while you don't need to open it.. Make sure you test it outside though and not connected to the tap.. if it still leaks add more sealant. 

I made it down a grade 4 white water river in a plastic kayak that had fallen off the back of the trailer and had a 6-inch hole.. repaired with duck tape and silicone sealant surprisingly watertight.


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## DarrenMT10 (16 Apr 2020)

new filter is fitted and running fine i can stop worrying now flow seems a lot better than my other filter too


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## rubadudbdub (16 Apr 2020)

Glad you have it sorted


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## alto (17 Apr 2020)

I would suggest splitting plant groupings into a smaller portions, covering more substrate area wth each plant type - this can stimulate plant growth, also allows more light and flow through the more spread out plant portions 
eg, nymphoides spec.taiwan can be gently teased apart with minimal damage (I do thIs in water with lots of space to work in and good light so you can see how to untangle stems and roots without breaking) 
cryptocoryne wendii will (relatively) quickly fill in a larger area when separated into several portions (I prefer not to cut rhizomes but carefully “squeeze” to encourage them to separate - George Farmer demonstrates this method is several videos) 


Plant density is quite low and as it’s going to be run low tech, growth will be slower, so it’s important to stay on top of maintenance and any algaes etc 

As the L brasiliensis is quite slow (even with CO2), I’d suggest adding more plants, or perhaps adding another ground cover 

George Farmer shows some portions and aquarium coverage in this video


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