# Planning for a 400l low tech tank



## mlgt (8 Nov 2010)

Scenario is Im currently in the process of buying my first property and just awaiting the exchange date.

For my living room I have a 200cm space in the living room so therefore I have my eyes set on a possible Juwel 400l tank.

I currently have a 180l tank which is a high tech set up with co2 injection. 

Since my wife & I began searching for properties, I knew that I would upgrade to a bigger tank, but likely to go low tech so I invested around Â£50 on a bunch of crypts. 

I have C.balansae, c. mi oya, C.Undulata red, c.lucens, c.retrospiralis, needleleaf fern, stardust anubias, vallis and dwarf hairgrass.

Although these are easy growing and not needing co2 as such, I wondered whats the best method to be feeding these? Will I still need to use EI methods based on a 400l tank or basically make tpn+ and dose?

Filtration wise, I will probably use the internal filter and a jbl e1500. I have thought about getting a koralia, but unsure if its neccessy for the tank.

Stock wise. At the moment I have 25 Cardinals, 10 Corys, 2 discus, 5 amanos, 6 assassins and a handful of cherry shrimps

For the proposed 400l, It will be around 50+ cardinals, 30+ corydoras, 20 Amanos, 2 discus (or 4-6 baby Angelfish) and transferred over the cherries/assassins. 

Would this be a good and simple transition? Do I need to start lowering the co2 in my current tank and ween the plants off it? Or simply just transfer into the new tank and let them melt and grow again?

Another question is substrate. I wanted to use playsand. But some have mentioned that I can use akadama or different type of subtrate.

Reason for going low tech is the cost involved to keep at 400l tank running. Would it be wise to look for a sump instead of the arranged filtration I have in mind?


----------



## Brenmuk (10 Nov 2010)

Have a look at this thread asking very similar questions.

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13332

As for the cryptocorynes I would be tempted to thin them out and prune them back (the same with the other plants). This means that you will reduce demand for CO2 at the same time as lowering the CO2 levels when going to low tech. This should help you head off any crypt melt problems and give you (and the plants) time to get used to managing lower CO2.


----------



## mlgt (10 Nov 2010)

Fair point. I would assume after getting the plants ready for transportation they will melt regardless so I was going to trim down what I can from the plants.

However must remember to labell them properly


----------



## roadmaster (11 Nov 2010)

Might add a root tab under the crypts after moving them to the new larger tank.
Might also consider trimming off a small portion of the roots which may prove to be extensive ,to encourage new growth.
Used to do this with potted plant's in Cichlid and Discus tanks once they outgrew the pots,vases,bowls,etc. and it worked well judging from new growth and less problems with crypt's after moving them. Hope some of this helps.


----------



## CeeJay (22 Nov 2010)

Hi Rik



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Although these are easy growing and not needing co2 as such, I wondered whats the best method to be feeding these? Will I still need to use EI methods based on a 400l tank or basically make tpn+ and dose?


You certainly won't need EI levels of dosing. Just make sure you don't go nuts with the lighting. If your tank is a new Rio 400, just be careful, as it come with 4 x 54w T5's. That's way too much for a low tech. I would just use one pair of lamps.
As for ferts, I use James recipe for his DIY TPN+ (The No.3 version). Works well in my low tech and shrimp tank.


			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Another question is substrate. I wanted to use playsand. But some have mentioned that I can use akadama or different type of subtrate.


Use what you like the look of, after all, it's you that's got to look at it  . Just stick some Osmocote or root tabs under it to give the plants a good start.



			
				mlgt said:
			
		

> Would it be wise to look for a sump instead of the arranged filtration I have in mind?


No sump required. Your 2 filters will be more than adequate for a low tech. 
As demand for everything is so much lower, you don't need to adhere to the 10x flow 'rule'.
Growth rates are a lot slower, but hey ho. Keeping healthy plants is the goal  

Good luck with this project, and good luck with your impending house move too.
Just don't be setting up the tank on the day of the move. Doesn't go down too well


----------



## mlgt (8 Dec 2010)

Thanks Chris.

Update on this. I have purchased a second hand Rena Aqualife 350, it comes with 2 tubes, which I am not sure if its T5 or T8, but I have my suspiction that it is T8's as I wasnt blinded to death.

Much appreciated on the comments. I will get some root tabs to promote growth and Yes I will be trimming the plants somewhat to allow them to settle in their new environment (the not so good looking ones, I wont cut healthy ones)

I have ordered another jbl e1500 filter as I like them and know they work well. so I will be able to use half of the current filter media and plonk it straight into the new filter and let it slowly sort it self out. I will then fill upsubstrate, add root tabs and replant most of the plants.

Then over a week later I will move the fishes over, altough the tank is not 400l, not is it the width that I wanted I settled for a footprint of 121x51x71cm (LxDxH) instead of the Rio which would have been 151 x 51 x 66 cm. So it is still quite a decent size. 

I look forward buying more fishes, and in the meantime I will be able to quarentine the new stock in the old 180l tank and use just the internal Juwel filter until I get a buyer for it.


----------



## sanj (22 Dec 2010)

Oh and there was me just about to encourage you to maximise on that 200cm of space... oh well im too late. lol

I have upgraded several times since buying my house, the Rena 350 was an upgrade (or rather an addition) number 3. I have since sold it and upgraded 3 times in size since then. One thing I will say is that the Rena is a well made tank, better quality than the Juwel. I dont like the filstar external filters, but that was just my experiance.


----------



## Voo (19 Apr 2011)

I have a rena 450, great tanks  I too wish they were a bit wider. Quite hard reaching the back of the tank though, hope you have an aquascaping tool kit?

The angel fish will finish off all your cherries, they did mine. I just had a few left that had taken refuge in the filter. Amanos are fine.

Regarding EI, consider dosing dry rather than mixing with water. It'll be much easier. 

Flow was a problem in my tank, even with 2 external filters. You may need to consider getting a powerhead of some kind. It'll certainly help with CO2 distribution. Have you thought about how you'll diffuse CO2 into a larger tank? Maybe an AM1000?


----------



## sanj (27 Apr 2011)

The Rena tanks could do with being 24" width. The height is great though.


----------

