# Roma 240 Planted Tank



## Neil Blowfield (16 Sep 2015)

Need some help with the tank please to see if am doing something wrong or should change anything. 
Am currently 31 days in to cycling the planted tank and the readings are as follows: PH 7.4, AMM 0.25ppm, NITRI 0ppm, NITRA 40-80ppm, GH 13, KH 8.
The API test kit is good but hard to read sometimes so have attached a photo also






I am water changing 25-50% twice a week and the last two changes have added 10 and 25 litres of RO respectively (with tap water) to try to bring the GH down but it is not happening.

I am also not adding Ammonia as per advice from PFK magazine as the plants would produce a level of Ammonia to aid the tank cycling & adding more would produce an Algae bloom? Do my levels look like it is cycling or am I making a pigs ear of this?

Am also noticing what I think is Algae building on rocks and leaves, pics attached. Lights/Co2 back down to 5 hours from 6 and will clean rocks later with a toothbrush and trim brown leaves if better to do so also? Dosing EI ferts as per instruction.









Any help/advice very appreciated, thanks

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## Neil Blowfield (16 Sep 2015)

Sorry, here are some other details also. 

This is my first attempt at an Aquascape planted tank by the way. 
The tank is a Fluval Roma 240 with standard lights, heater and 306 filter.

The substrate is JBL Aquabasis plus &amp; Manado (rinsed in v.hot water first) 
The hardscape is made up of Redmoor wood x 3 &amp; several pieces of Seiryu stone. 
My plant list is as follows; Vallisneria spiralis, Ludwigia perennis, Echinoderms bleheri/barthii, Cryptocoryne wendtii/nevellii, Bacopa caroliniana, Hygrophila augustifolia, Eleocharis parvula, Pogostemon helferi, Anubias Nana and Christmas moss. 

I am dosing EI ferts as per their instruction, have a Koralia 900l/hour power head for flow and a Colombo CO2 set at about 3 bubbles/second (recently increased)
The tank temp is approx 28° &amp; am cycling the tank at the moment just simply with the plants. (after advice from PFK) I was looking to add some shrimp after approx 4 weeks if the levels are OK obviously and then fish gradually at 1-2 week intervals after this (after advice from PFK)
I am also changing 25% of the water twice a week for the first 3-4 weeks and then it will be once a week - using prime for this also. 
The tap water levels are (after 24 hours) 
PH - 8, 
AMM - 0.25ppm 
NITRI - 0ppm 
NITRA - 5ppm
KH - 8
GH - 12
Tank water levels on Day 16 are
PH - 7.6
AMM - 0.25ppm
NITRI - 0ppm
NITRA - 40 - 80ppm
KH - 9
GH - 12

This post was my first post on the PFK forum  but not getting any replies so thought would try you guys for help. Many thanks

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## dw1305 (16 Sep 2015)

Hi all, 





Neil Blowfield said:


> I am also not adding Ammonia as per advice from PFK magazine as the plants would produce a level of Ammonia to aid the tank cycling & adding more would produce an Algae bloom? Do my levels look like it is cycling or am I making a pigs ear of this?


 We prefer not adding ammonia, and we aren't very big on test kits. Have a look at <"Will fishless cycling...."> (and links).  





Neil Blowfield said:


> Am also noticing what I think is Algae building on rocks and leaves, pics attached. Lights/Co2 back down to 5 hours from 6 and will clean rocks later with a toothbrush and trim brown leaves if better to do so also?


Definitely remove the algae and dead leaves. I'm not an added CO2 user myself, but even with added CO2 your plants will take a little time to transition from being produced emersed to being submerged in your tank, and during this process leaves will senesce and be shed. 

I'd read through the <"drop checker sticky"> as well.  

cheers Darrel


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## John S (16 Sep 2015)

You say 6 hours lights / Co2 but how long is the Co2 on before the lights start.
Are you using a DC to give you an indication of Co2 levels or using a PH pen?


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## John S (16 Sep 2015)

I'd also lower your tank temperature. I'm sure I've read that a higher temperature can drive off your Co2 quicker - I might be wrong though


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## Neil Blowfield (16 Sep 2015)

Thanks Darrel, great advice and really appreciated - will have a good read through the articles shortly. 

Hi John, 

Lights/co2 are now 5 hours with the co2 on 1 hour before on and off 1 hour before off. Have got a Co2 indicator but this seems to stay green most of the time, shouldn't this be back to Blue in the morning? Was going to start moving the indicator around the tank to see how this affects the colour and also invest in a PH pen so I can do a PH profile. I have the API test kit but on reflection this is quite hard to read and is very open to interpretation! 
Meant to say on the first post have lowered the temp to 25° also to see if this helps with the algae. 
Thanks again guys, very helpful. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (16 Sep 2015)

Day 33 of my Tank. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## John S (17 Sep 2015)

The DC wont always return to blue overnight. It you have little surface agitation then it may stay green. You can check if the solution is still OK by removing the DC from the tank for an hour. It should go back to more of a blue colour.

While you have no livestock you can turn also up the co2 to see if it helps. Look for the DC being a lime green to yellow colour. You may have to back the gas off before adding any livestock.


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## Neil Blowfield (17 Sep 2015)

Thanks John, I will take it out the tank later to check it and let you know. One of the outlet pipes is pointing to the tank surface and causes a nice ripple but probably not enough. Got a good list of bits to do now and try! 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (17 Sep 2015)

Took the indicator out the tank for an hour and returned to Blue as you said.  Have put it back in in the back left top corner and went back to greenish pretty quickly, will have another check tomorrow and keep an eye on things. Have tried to point the outlet upwards more, will it cause a problem not having much surface agitation? 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## John S (18 Sep 2015)

You may get different answers to that as some peoples DC's do stay green. The important thing is probably that you do not have too much agitation, ie splashing, as your Co2 will drive off quicker. The main thing to remember is that the changes you make will not fix things overnight, you need some patience - although it can get frustrating.

Are your lights T5 or T8?


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## Neil Blowfield (18 Sep 2015)

Thanks John, the outlet is causing a good ripple but not really breaking the surface. Yes, have definitely realised over time that require a very good level of patience in fish keeping! Lol. Lights are standard T8's 40W. 


Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (21 Sep 2015)

Tank water levels on Day 38. Tested just before co2 goes off and an hour before lights go out. 
PH - 6.8 AMM - 0.25ppm NITRI - 0ppm NITRA 40-80ppm GH - 15 KH - 8. 
Do people think these levels look OK/the tank is cycled? 
Wanted to add some shrimp firstly to help with algae but don't want to harm them obviously. Was going to ask my local Maidenhead to check the levels for me also as a back up. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## foxfish (22 Sep 2015)

Hi Blowfish!, you are off to a sensible start although I think you would see benefits from more water changes.
Once the tank is well established, 50% water change a week is what most of us find successful however you can do as many water changes as you can find the time for! 25% a day would be great (or more).
You could also add more plants as it seems the bigger the plant mass the less algae..... (as long as the plants are growing well)
I know plants can be expensive but you can sell any excesses via the forum for a reasonable sum once they have out grown your space!
I think you can safely add some Amanos if you want to but while the tank has no creatures in it, it is a great time to experiment with the C02!
You can really turn it up & see what happens. With max levels of co2 you should see almost instant growth & quite likely oxygen bubbles forming on the plants!
This is a great way to get your tank established fast.
If you are adding 3 x BPS try 6 BPS. Once you add fish or shrimp you cant just play with the gas as you might kill them but at the moment you can!


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## Edvet (22 Sep 2015)

foxfish said:


> add more plants as it seems the bigger the plant mass the less algae


you could use dirt cheap pond plants like hornwort, no need to plant them, just chuck them in.


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## Neil Blowfield (23 Sep 2015)

Many thanks foxfish, great reply and help. Misjudged my container size, have actually been changing 40 - 50% twice per week and last night made sure did a good 50% change. Have turned the co2 up and will see what happens for a while,  also upped my ferts slightly too. Will nip in my local shop in the next few day and see about some more plants. Thanks Edvet also. 
Is the best way to check the co2 levels a PH pen then, it is going in the tank via a diffuser placed low down under my inlet pipe. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Edvet (23 Sep 2015)

Neil Blowfield said:


> Is the best way to check the co2 levels a PH pen


It's a way to see, I personally prefer it over a dropchecker. I tend to strive for a 1 unit pH drop between dark and lights on.


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## Neil Blowfield (23 Sep 2015)

Thanks Edvet, very helpful. Ordering the ph pen asap. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (23 Sep 2015)

Anybody recommend a type/make for this? Have seen quite a big price difference on these and wondered if the cheaper ones would be suitable and up to the job. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Edvet (23 Sep 2015)

Get a decent one ( Hanna, Milwaukee) and some calibration fluids, if properly stored they will last  a long time.


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## Neil Blowfield (27 Sep 2015)

Took some water in to my local Maidenhead today and tested all good to add shrimp/fish. Got advised to add some fish first rather than the shrimp and wait till the tank is a bit more established for the shrimp. What are people's thoughts on this and what have been their experiences? 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## alto (28 Sep 2015)

I generally add in shrimp first (I like to have them established before introducing fish) - just choose a less delicate shrimp, eg, amano, cherry shrimp (not the intensely bred color lines such as "black rose" etc), tiger shrimp ... you might check the Sponsor Forum for shrimp specialists.
Obviously it's easier if the shop has shrimp kept in similar water parameters as your own, so that is always a good starting question.
Healthy shrimp are not really that delicate, they should be active at the shop, working busily away cleaning & have a good food response.
As far as I can read, your tank has been up & running for several weeks & filter has cycled, so I'd add in a group of 10 -12 shrimp (like fish, shrimp do better in "shoals" ) & a few otocinclus, wait a few days to ensure that all is well, then add in additional groups/types of shrimp

You can always compromise by adding in otocinclus, then shrimp the following week.


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## Edvet (28 Sep 2015)

alto said:


> adding in otocinclus


Make sure they have been in the shop a few weeks and eating well,. they can be emaciated from the transport, subsequently there survival rate drops like a brick. If they are fresh in the shop you should have some "mossed over"stones ready to give them something to eat on fast.


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## Neil Blowfield (28 Sep 2015)

Thanks again guys, great help and advice. So we are saying definitely shrimp before fish then, if so would we go for Amano or Cherry? Could I eventually have both species or would this depend on the fish I wish to keep? 
Am thinking of having a Barb themed tank - 10/12 shoal of Odessa and then a number of Green tiger, Neon rosy & Denison. Also like the look of the Shiner fish but will see on compatibility with this.  

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Bacms (28 Sep 2015)

Following this one as I am also starting to think in adding some shrimps to my setup in a week or two


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## alto (28 Sep 2015)

My fishy thoughts 

Tiger barbs get to a substantial size & I suspect they'd be quite interested in shrimp sampling  They really need to be kept in decent sized shoals so as to not harass other fish.

Odessa's can be lovely or they can be terrific gardeners - you likely won't appreciate their pruning attempts as much as they do  

Rosy Barbs - these are such brilliant fish when kept in larger groups (at least 10 -12)
(I'd avoid long fin versions of most barbs as they often end up looking quite tattered)

Denisoni - they aren't nicknamed torpedo for nothing - I'd not recommend them for anything under 120cm (& after watching a shoal in a 180 ... stunning fish) & you'll need to be careful of CO2 levels (low to moderate at most); they really do better in larger groups of at least 6-8 rather than the 2 or 3 most people keep, they are quite interactive in a group. If you want to do these fish, I'd setup the tank around them.

A tiger barb only aquarium can also be very interesting as there are many different color forms.


Shrimp thoughts:
definitely get shrimp established before adding in the Barb Horde  settled adult shrimp can be quite ferocious - amanos & tigers mores so than cherries  (though if cherries start breeding & you have some decent moss banks for shrimplets to hide in, they may surprise you with their numbers ... OTOH if they aren't out & about in the tank, not so effective as clean up crew)
If you can track down some of this type, like amanos they seem to be a larger shrimp that doesn't breed in freshwater  (though they seem to ship as various species under 1 name, at least one of the species is claimed to be able to breed in freshwater ...) They are great algae eaters & fun to watch.

You can mix most shrimp species, though the various color forms of Cherries will cross & you'll eventually end up with more of a wild type coloring. In a small tank, I'd be concerned about mixing tigers & cherries ... my tigers always win the battles ... it's likely to work while numbers are small & there is sufficient territory.


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## Manu (28 Sep 2015)

Neil Blowfield said:


> Thanks again guys, great help and advice. So we are saying definitely shrimp before fish then, if so would we go for Amano or Cherry? Could I eventually have both species or would this depend on the fish I wish to keep?
> Am thinking of having a Barb themed tank - 10/12 shoal of Odessa and then a number of Green tiger, Neon rosy & Denison. Also like the look of the Shiner fish but will see on compatibility with this.
> 
> Many thanks Blowfish



Hi,
I would definitely start with some amanos and some otos.
One advise for the fish: it's more impressive to have a good size shoal of one or two species than a few fish of many species.
Cheers, Manu. 

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## Neil Blowfield (29 Sep 2015)

Wow, thanks Alto. A very detailed reply and very helpful also. Thanks Manu also, sounds like a great idea. 
Will have a rethink about what will be best for the fish firstly and the tank. Love the Odessa and Denison but from what you say, these will cause most problems. Might go for the Denison with a big shoal of Rosy maybe,  decisions decisions! Would also love a nice group of Cory's so think the Tigers would be out of the question if I want them. Anyone know much about the Shiner fish, they look amazing too! 


Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (29 Sep 2015)

Also got 12 x Amano shrimp in last night, seemed to settle in straight away and looked happy. Fingers crossed. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## alto (30 Sep 2015)

You should try to make a tank work with fish that you love - just look at needs of the particular species vs what you want in a tank & see if there's a way to make it work

eg for denisonii
Choose your plant species wisely so that only low - moderate CO2 are needed (look at the plant profiles on Tropica ... & then buy Tropica plants in appreciation of all the research they've done & share so freely), keep water temperatures in the 22-23C range (or 20 - 22C etc) as this will improve oxygen levels (more gasses dissolved in water at lower temperatures), commit to weekly water changes (or even twice weekly, depending on stocking level etc - lower DOC usually means more oxygen available for fishes)

If possible deal with a shop that is happy to accept returns/trades on fish that don't work out longterm in client tanks (obviously helps if fish are in excellent condition - make sure you understand how to bag up fish for transport).

A shoal of denisonii & shoal of Odessa would look amazing  

- again try to choose plants that are less palatable, feed a varied diet including spirulina/plant matter etc, feed regularly, if possible feed twice daily rather than just once - without overfeeding  
- include plants that are fast growing, be consistent with plant nutrition (light/CO2/macro/micro nutrients)


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## Neil Blowfield (30 Sep 2015)

Thanks again Alto, very helpful. My plants are already in the tank (listed on my 2nd post) so will have to have a good look at this on suitability for the fish I want/would like. Water changes and varied diet are no problem at all, will happily do anything possible to help the fish have a great environment and happy time in the tank.

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (2 Oct 2015)

Tank update: The Shrimp have been in nearly a week and are doing a great job already - did my weekly water change tonight and the stones/plants are noticeably much cleaner already. Well chuffed with my clean up crew!  
Hopefully get some snails in over the weekend and maybe the first lot of fish depending on the water levels. Will update more and post some more photo's shortly. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (9 Oct 2015)

Tank update and a few photos showing the great work the shrimp have done, the progression of the plants and just a general tank photo. 
Really pleased with the tank and how things are moving along, the shrimp have been in a couple of weeks and 6 x Neon Rosy Barbs nearly a week. These fish are a beautiful colour and have a lovely shimmer to them in the right light. 















Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (9 Oct 2015)

One of the Barbs cruising over the rocks. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (9 Oct 2015)

Really pleased to share with you guys my plant letter of the month in PFK last month, well chuffed and a nice prize. 





How do people find the TNC stuff? I am already dosing EI on my Roma, which seems to work very well but just wondered how good this stuff was and whether to use the liquid carbon as well as the diffuser I have on the tank. 
I am going to plant up my Nano 55 litre also so can use one of the nutrients for this - one bottle will last 4 years!!  Could also use the carbon on this if needed also. 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Neil Blowfield (20 Oct 2015)

Update and question;
Shrimp and Barbs going well and seem very happy in the tank, the Dwarf hair grass is another matter though! Lol. The Barbs seem to love messing around in the substrate (Manado) & because the hair grass is not well enough established, it is just at the top of the tank every night! Instead of planting this back in the substrate every day I have moved this to my Nano tank to see if it fairs better. Any ideas for a better foreground plant that will be harder for the Barbs to uproot? Was thinking of some Dwarf Sagittaria or am I wasting trying for a carpet type look with these fish? 

Many thanks Blowfish


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## Greenfinger2 (17 Oct 2016)

Hi Neil, Love the Scape healthy plants too 

Your Q 
Can you remove the fish from the tank.Plant the hairgrass let it grow roots to hold itself in place.Then put the fish back .


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## Neil Blowfield (17 Oct 2016)

Thanks for the comments. This was quite a while ago & the tank has changed quite a lot since then. I made the choice to take the hairgrass out & go with some mini crypts. Photo of tank today attached... 



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## Greenfinger2 (17 Oct 2016)

Hi Neil, That's fantastic


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## Neil Blowfield (5 Jan 2017)

Can someone please help with what the attached is? Had some problems with my CO2 regulator recently so CO2 was an issue for a few weeks (was adding liquid co2 though) until it got sorted. Have cut the plants back quite a bit recently also to give it a refresh so this may have affected it. 
Am also thinking I may need to update the T8 lighting as been on the tank for over a year now also. 
Many thanks in advance. 

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## GHNelson (5 Jan 2017)

Black Beard/Brush Algae!



 

 


*Description*
Often grows on leaf edges of slow growing plants, bog wood and mechanical equipment. Also sometimes it grows in fast flowing areas of the tank. Grows in clumps or patches of fine black tufts up to about 0.5cm long.
*Cause* In a high light tank it is an indication of low or fluctuating CO2 levels or not enough water circulation around the plants. In a low light tank it is often due to changing CO2 levels.
*Removal* In a high light tank you will need to increase your levels of CO2 and/or improve water circulation around the plants. Scrub and cut off as much as you can first. Increase levels slowly to 30ppm or more but watch the fish to see if they are respiring heavily. Make sure you have good water flow around the whole tank along with some good surface movement. Adding a powerhead may help.
If you have a low light tank without CO2 injection then not doing any water changes will help. This is because tap water often has lots of CO2 dissolved in it which causes CO2 levels in your tank to fluctuate. The algae respond to this a lot quicker than the plants do.
Siamese Algae Eaters are known to eat BBA so can be used to control this algae.
Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon will clear it up.
Extract from James Planted Tank.
hoggie


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2017)

Hi all,





Neil Blowfield said:


> Can someone please help with what the attached is?


It is a red algae (Rhodophyta), the one people call <"Black Brush Algae" (BBA)>. 

cheers Darrel


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## Neil Blowfield (3 Feb 2017)

When it says to "overdose" TNC Carbon, without sounding like a complete moron - how should I do this and how much? Thanks again 

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