# help needed before abandoning ship



## Reuben (20 Feb 2014)

Okay so I'll be going away for two weeks.  Not easy to get anyone to check the tank for me while I'm away so thinking about how I'll play it.

My tank is 125L, Co2, EI, and 6ml easycarbo each day at the moment.  All the plants are looking really healthy and things are thriving so I'm not keen on it all going wrong while I'm away.

I also have about 25 small tetras in there too - will they be okay??.

I'm thinking reduce my lighting to say 15% output (grobeam 600 x 2), leave Co2 (gas) as it is now, dose a lot of ferts before I leave, I have no way of auto dosing easycarbo so it will be going 'cold turkey' on that front. 

As for the fish I could maybe get someone to pop in and feed them at the end of week one, but would they be okay for two weeks?

Anything else I should do?  Should I start to 'wean' the plants off of the easycarbo now or is there no logic in that?

All advice welcome
Thanks
Reuben


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## ceg4048 (20 Feb 2014)

Rueben,
					Just turn all the lights and CO2 off and don't do any feeding. Don't let anyone near the tank, especially if they are clueless.

Cheers,


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Feb 2014)

Do not under any circumstances ramp your lights right down and leave co2 as normal.
Otherwise you'll come back to 25 dead 'small tetras'.

Do as Clive says, (as per usual!  ) and turn lights and co2 off. 

Make sure that if evaporation occurs, that the spraybar/ outlet isn't positioned in a way to spurt water over the floor. (Ask Iain Sutherland  )
Otherwise you'll come back to dead tetras and wet carpets/big bills & no filter.

Happy holidays!


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## stu_ (20 Feb 2014)

Nobody has asked the most important question....







Where you going?


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## harryH (20 Feb 2014)

Yep, Going away and aquariums don't mix. Some knowledgeable advice above should make you feel less guilty..I'm sure all will be fine.

Harry


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## Reuben (20 Feb 2014)

Hello,

Okay thanks for the advice, I'll do as I'm told then! 




stu_ said:


> Nobody has asked the most important question.... Where you going?


 
Well, I could tell you but.......


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Feb 2014)

Reuben said:


> Hello,
> 
> Okay thanks for the advice, I'll do as I'm told then!
> 
> ...



...Your going.. With.. Stus.. Mrs?


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## Reuben (20 Feb 2014)

Suppose I asked for that...


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## Lee Sweeting (20 Feb 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> ...Your going.. With.. Stus.. Mrs?


 

Hahaha! Quality!


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## stu_ (20 Feb 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> ...Your going.. With.. Stus.. Mrs?


 
Wish somebody would 

If you're going skiing,i'm never talking to you again...


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## parotet (20 Feb 2014)

Wow.... I thought that ramping the lights down (and co2) was the good answer. Will plants be ok 15 days without light? Is it better to prune them before to have less biomass?
Good advice regarding the spraybar, especially where I livec... temperatures up to 35 degrees in summer and the water evaporates very quickly.


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## EdwinK (21 Feb 2014)

Don't forget to make WC on the leaving day.


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## Rob P (21 Feb 2014)

parotet said:


> temperatures up to 35 degrees in summer and the water evaporates very quickly.


 
Yeh in Blighty your more likely to come home to more water in the tank than you left it with (rain & flooding)  lol


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (21 Feb 2014)

Rob P said:


> Yeh in Blighty your more likely to come home to more water in the tank than you left it with (rain & flooding)  lol



And quite possibly next doors sofa thrown in for good measure...


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## Reuben (21 Feb 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Rueben, Just turn all the lights and CO2 off and don't do any feeding. Don't let anyone near the tank, especially if they are clueless. Cheers,


 
Thinking ahead... What's best practice when I return, once I do W/C should I restore Co2 to optimum, return to same level of ferts dosing and resume easycarbo, but very slowly increase lighting over a few days?

Or do I just put _everything _(lights included) back as it was and the plants will carry on as normal?
Thanks


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## Manrock (21 Feb 2014)

I'm pretty amazed that the tetras will survive 15 days without food! Really?


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## EdwinK (22 Feb 2014)

Reuben said:


> but very slowly increase lighting over a few days?



Yes, it is the right way.



Manrock said:


> I'm pretty amazed that the tetras will survive 15 days without food! Really?



Most of fish would survive even longer period of course if they are not in a plain glass tank.


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## ceg4048 (22 Feb 2014)

There is plenty of food in the tank. The food is called "bits and pieces of plant material or algae."
What do you think flake food is made out of? Have a look at the package list of ingredients.

No added food means less ammonia and organic waste to foul the tank for 15 days. 
This is all goodness people. Keep it real.

Cheers,


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## Sacha (22 Feb 2014)

Just out of interest, what's wrong with leaving the lights and Co2 on, but just reducing the "on" time?


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## EdwinK (22 Feb 2014)

The tank may run out of nutrients.


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## Manrock (22 Feb 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> There is plenty of food in the tank. The food is called "bits and pieces of plant material or algae."


I think my shrimps and snails get most of this!


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## Reuben (5 Apr 2014)

Just for the record, the above technique worked very well.  When I returned - after two weeks of no light, ferts, co2 or fish food - all the fish looked exactly the same as when I left.  Most of the plants were fine, the faster growing ones had turned a whitish colour.  Anubias actually looked a lot better!

One thing, I saw snails for the first time in the subsequent days, presumable due to the increased dead leaves while I was away.  Now seem to have disappeared again.

I would recommend this as an option for anyone going away- unless you can get hold of a competent caretaker.
Thanks.


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## petn (5 Apr 2014)

That is all very interesting, can't understand that. I lost my light on one tank recently and after four days when I managed to fixe it st.reopens was white like a wall. Why was that? I'm glad u found all fine and it worked out though. Will need to go trough it too in the summer.Thanks for sharing P 

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## ceg4048 (5 Apr 2014)

Reuben said:


> Anubias actually looked a lot better!


Klingons worshiping at The Temple of Megawatt please take note.

Cheers,


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## Reuben (5 Apr 2014)

petn said:


> That is all very interesting, can't understand that. I lost my light on one tank recently and after four days when I managed to fixe it st.reopens was white like a wall. Why was that? I'm glad u found all fine and it worked out though. Will need to go trough it too in the summer.Thanks for sharing P


Yes S.reopens did look very pasty upon return.  Probably 40% of the leaves melted too.  Once I sorted the Co2 out , then upped the lights it regrew really fast and is now doing very well .  I'm sure it would be the same for you assuming your aquarium is Co2 injected?




ceg4048 said:


> Klingons worshiping at The Temple of Megawatt please take note.




It did make me think about doing a larger aquarium with just tonnes of anubias and a few ferns.  Really low light, low tech, leaf litter and such.  Anubias really are a low light plant I think...


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## petn (5 Apr 2014)

Yes co2 injected.I took the repens out though,never thought it will recover again, boo on me for that.i will do just a week in the summer, good to know how to approach it. Thanking you.P

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## ceg4048 (5 Apr 2014)

Reuben said:


> It did make me think about doing a larger aquarium with just tonnes of anubias and a few ferns. Really low light, low tech, leaf litter and such. Anubias really are a low light plant I think...


Yes, there is no such thing as a high light plant but there definitely are low light plants. Anubias is one of those, and is a champion of low light. Ferns also can practically live in the dark. Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting.

Cheers,


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## Reuben (6 Apr 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Yes, there is no such thing as a high light plant but there definitely are low light plants. Anubias is one of those, and is a champion of low light. Ferns also can practically live in the dark. Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting.
> 
> Cheers,



Have you done a low tech tank before?  I think in some ways I might prefer this approach, less kerfuffle! (which might help justify having a larger tank...)  One thing I like about the high tech is the large water changes - not doing them - but the benefit of clean water is something that makes a lot of sense to my mind at least!

Occasionally read that big water changes in low tech can cause 'problems'.  What's your view on this.  I don't really see why it would be a problem, and surely it would be a bonus for the fish?


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## ceg4048 (7 Apr 2014)

Yes, I've done low tech, but it's too boring for me. In any case using low light doesn't mean you have to use non-CO2. Where is that written? People use too much light in the first place, which is the beginning of all their woes.

Water changes when the lights are on can cause issues due to rapid or cyclic changes in the CO2 content. That assumes the replacement water is high in CO2, such as with tap water. If the replacement water is RO, or, rainwater, or has otherwise been de-gassed then it's not too much of a problem.

One has to consider what it means for water to be "clean". From our perspective, clean means free from organic waste. In a high tech tank the organic waste buildup is rapid and unavoidable, so the water has to be changed frequently. In a non-CO2 tank the buildup is very slow, and the rate of organic waste production is near enough to the rate of breakdown and recycling of the waste so that the water stays clean.

Cheers,


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## parotet (7 Apr 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Low light plants also have low CO2 requirements under low light conditions. When the light intensity increases they are not very well adapted and their CO2 requirement either becomes disproportionally high, or their CO2 uptake mechanism is inefficient, or both. That's one of the reasons they suffer constant GSA in highly lit tanks. Ferns suffer recurring translucent leaf tips under high lighting



Good to know this...  I got a tank with Anubias and Java fern Trident, but also with other fast growing stem species. I have improved the flow with a spraybar, some days ago with a Koralia nano 900, I worked on my ph profile, I got a CO2 atomizer (I cannot count the bubbles)... but while all the species in the tank do well (I am even growing a carpet on the foreground), Java fern and Anubias old leaves have always some thread algae (Anubias a bit of GSA) I cannot get rid of.
In my mind two strategies to face this problem:

1. less light (I got 2x24w T5 for 65 liters, there were 35 cm above the tank, since this morning they are higher, 43 cm), so adapt the light level to low light plants. Bad luck for fast growers: Limnophila aromatica, Rotala rotundifolia and Proserpinaca palustris won't turn red.
2. More nutrients. I am dosing standard EI but I want to double the dose and see if it helps.

If i doesn't work I will just purchase more Otos and make them happy 

Jordi


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## ceg4048 (7 Apr 2014)

Yes, that's a good move. Don't see why it's bad luck for any plant to suffer less inbound photon torpedoes. They'll just slow the growth rate is all. Just remove the affected leaves and the Anubia swill grow new ones, which hopefully will be cleaner. Another trick, if the aquascape allows would be to move them to a more shaded area under taller plants, for example.

Cheers,


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## Reuben (22 Apr 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> In any case using low light doesn't mean you have to use non-CO2. Where is that written?



But if I do a 'Low tech' setup in the sense i keep the lighting levels low and use simple low light plants would there be any point in me adding Co2?  I think that's why Iassume Low tech/light means no Co2 at all.


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## ceg4048 (23 Apr 2014)

'Low tech' or 'high tech' is not defined by how much light is being used. The amount of light is not relevant. As you say, 'low tech' by definition means that CO2 is not enriched. Similarly, 'high tech' by definition describes a tank who's CO2 is being enriched. That can be by gas injection or by gluteraldehyde products such as Excel or Easycarbo.

Of course, since there is a relationship between the plant's need for CO2/nutrients as the lighting is increased, it makes sense that if CO2 is not being enriched then the lighting intensity should be curtailed. 

Ironically, high tech tanks suffer more algae and plant health problems than low tech tanks specifically because hobbyists do not pay enough attention to this relationship, and they assume that just because they have CO2 enrichment, the plants are automatically given access to the amounts of CO2 they require.

It's easy to turn on a light switch, or to add more bulbs, but it's very difficult to ensure excellent CO2, and so almost without fail, the light/CO2 relationship is violated in high tech tanks.

When you add CO2 competently, regardless of the lighting level, there is always an improvement in growth rates. Plants can always use more CO2. People get into trouble because of the false assumption that you must add more light if CO2 is being enriched, but this is untrue. 

Barr made some PAR measurements at an Amano exhibition some time ago and his data revealed than the tanks, although CO2 enriched, were actually low light.

Cheers,


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## Omegatron (23 Apr 2014)

Hi, firstly sorry for hijacking!

I was just reading this thread i find it really interesting. Im going on a 2 week holiday in a couple of months aswell. I have a Iwagumi tank. Plants: HC,Glosso, DHG. I got green tetra (simulans) otto's and japonica's. Will my tank be ok aswell if i leave the lights and Co2 off for the time that im away? Or is this different with the kind of plants someone has?

I wanted to ask a friend to do maintanance and feeding but if the above is safe i rather do that. Also, when im back home how much hours of light should i start with? i normally have a 8 hour photoperiod.

Thanks!


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## roadmaster (23 Apr 2014)

Sacha said:


> Just out of interest, what's wrong with leaving the lights and Co2 on, but just reducing the "on" time?


 

With light's and CO2 on,,Who will feed the plant's?


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## Sacha (23 Apr 2014)

Well if we reduce the on time, and give a 7x dose of EI the two days before going on holiday, surely the plants won't run out...?


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## roadmaster (23 Apr 2014)

Sacha said:


> Well if we reduce the on time, and give a 7x dose of EI the two days before going on holiday, surely the plants won't run out...?


 
Perhap's this would work in plant only tank's??
I think from fish/ shrimp perspective, the sudden increase in Total dissolved solid's at dose suggested  could maybe have negative effect depending on species. Some more sensitve than other's.


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## ceg4048 (23 Apr 2014)

Omegatron said:


> I wanted to ask a friend to do maintanance and feeding but if the above is safe i rather do that.


Hi, yeah definitely do the above. Glosso and other carpet plants, being smaller, and therefore having less food storage capability might take a little bit more of a hit in terms of weight loss, they recover when you return and add the CO2/nutrition.



Omegatron said:


> Also, when im back home how much hours of light should i start with? i normally have a 8 hour photoperiod.


I suggest that you return to high CO2 but to limit the lighting intensity to half and photoperiod to maybe a few hours and to gradually build up over a week or two. It's easy for the plants to put back on the weight they lost if you feed them.

Cheers,


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## Omegatron (23 Apr 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Hi, yeah definitely do the above. Glosso and other carpet plants, being smaller, and therefore having less food storage capability might take a little bit more of a hit in terms of weight loss, they recover when you return and add the CO2/nutrition.
> 
> 
> I suggest that you return to high CO2 but to limit the lighting intensity to half and photoperiod to maybe a few hours and to gradually build up over a week or two. It's easy for the plants to put back on the weight they lost if you feed them.
> ...



Thanks for the advise. When you talk about weight loss what do you mean with that? Im trying to picture what i can expect when comming back from a 2 week holiday. 

Also. I have like 30 ish japonica shrimp, 26 green tetra and 12 otto's. No food for 2 weeks for all of these creatures is not bad?  Im afraid that the shrimp are gonna start eating the carpet plants like grass leaving me with a plantless tank when i come back haha.

Ow, when my lights are out its not pitch black. The tank is in the living room so there will be light in the room (hardly any direct sunlight on the tank). I dont think this is a problem but maybe important to mention.

Thanks again. And sorry for hijacking.


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## ceg4048 (23 Apr 2014)

Well, weight loss means that the plants are thinner and that their growth rate is reduced, so there is less tissue mass than before. Shutting down CO2/nutrients/lights means they eat less and produce less food.
I don't see why it should be a problem to not feed fish for two weeks. You might discover that  you've been overfeeding in the first place and that the fish are overweight anyway. So the same will happen to fish as to plants. A little weight loss. What's the big deal?
When you turn the lights off and stop feeding the plants and fish start to live like how they would live if they were in their natural habitat. The plants are not being pummeled by megawattage and the fish just have to get over the fact of reduced food. Wild fish don't get fed 3 square meals a day.

I never even think about all that. What I think about is that it's a lot easier to put the weight back on that to have the tank spiral out of control while I'm gone and to have to clean up the mess. That can happen so easily, if a CO2 tank is left unattended, or worse if some clueless person is left in charge.

Cheers,


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## Omegatron (23 Apr 2014)

Thanks again for your insight. I was worried to try the method you described but it makes sense. About the overfeeding. I try not to. I only use fish food for all fauna and only give a tiny bit every 2 days. But who knows maybe they are still spoiled haha. Again thanks a lot. 

Also i did not read about this method before. but this method is definately worth a sticky somewhere!




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