# centrepiece fish



## robfromdublin (20 Jul 2010)

Hey all,

Am currently in the process of stocking my ~150L 4ft tank.  So far I have 6 Sterbai corys, 2 bristlenose and 20 rummy-nose tetras.  I'd like a centrepiece fish (or a pair).  My thinking so far is either angelfish, blue ram cichlids or some form of gourami (dwarf looks best of those i've seen).

Does anyone have any other suggestions that I may have overlooked?  It's a soft-water, lightly planted tank with a couple of large bogwood bits in it.  Any and all suggestions welcomed!

R


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## wearsbunnyslippers (20 Jul 2010)

angels will outgrow a 150l tank pretty quick...

blue rams are probably the better option.. i have never had much luck with dwarf gouramis.


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## Garuf (20 Jul 2010)

It's a shame that so many dwarf Gouramis are always inbred poor quality fish, well worth looking out for the wilds that have popped up very recently as by catch. Czech produced fish are extremely good quality and worth paying more for.


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## robfromdublin (20 Jul 2010)

Do you reckon?  I thought a single angel would be OK.  From what I've read you need a tank at least 18" high, which mine is.  Granted only a foot wide though.  To be fair I haven't seen a fully grown angel, although I do know the veil versions have longer fins so I was going to avoid them if poss.

Are dwarf gouramis difficult fish to keep? 

How do identify poor quality individuals?  Also, what are people fishing for that dwarf gouramis are by catch??


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## Garuf (20 Jul 2010)

They're difficult to keep recently because the ones that make it over here are very poor quality, inbred etc. Mainly fish with a higher catch value, darios hara cats, stuff like that I believe.


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## dw1305 (21 Jul 2010)

Hi all,
I like dwarf cichlids, and Rams are good if you can get good quality stock, but they are hopeless parents with other fish. I've also seen some very nice _Nannacara anomala_ lately, including the very striking green morph (at Amazon Aquatics in Warminster). _Laetacara dorsigera/curviceps_ would also be good. 

But I think it is a perfect tank for some _Apistogramma_, how about a pair of A. _panduro/nijsenii/baenschii_ or a trio of _A. macmasteri/hongsloi/agassizi/borellii/trifasciata or cacatuoides_? It is a shame you are in Dublin as I have always have some spare _A. cacatuoides_ that you could have had.

The Apistogramma species also give you a choice of colours with some species largely reds and others blue.

Have a look here for details <http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/index.php>

cheers Darrel


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## a1Matt (21 Jul 2010)

:text-+1: for dwarf cichlids


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## magpie (21 Jul 2010)

I'm not there yet but have been thinking the same thing - and wondering where I could get a good, healthy pair of dwarf gouramis... [spelling corrected on edit]

some folk go for the Chocolate gouramis, which certainly look nice, but are delicate. Honey gouramis are delightful and easier to find and keep

I was also thinking that a trio of female siamese fighters might be interesting - they are apparently more community-friendly and less prone to fighting - tho' not if you want to keep shrimp

a pair of Badis badis can look good, but may be too small for your tank

or the German Rams, which are a delight to watch.

good luck - let us know what you get


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## magpie (21 Jul 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> It's a shame that so many dwarf Gouramis are always inbred poor quality fish, well worth looking out for the wilds that have popped up very recently as by catch. Czech produced fish are extremely good quality and worth paying more for.




Gareth - if we wanted 'Czech produced' gouramis, how would we go about finding them? 

m


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## robfromdublin (21 Jul 2010)

Cheers guys, especially Darrel. You've given me a lot to go on there.  

Just had a quick google and there are some beautiful pics of Apistos!  Look forward to doing some reading around them this evening.

I don't suppose you know where in Plymouth is a good place to source dwarf cichlid's?  My username is misleading, I'm an immigant  !


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## dw1305 (22 Jul 2010)

Hi all,
Rob, your best bet would probably be Trimar in Camborn (<http://www.tropicalfish.org.uk/>), you could also try Ste12000 on Ebay, this belongs to Steve Chesters, and he is a well known Apistogramma breeder with lots of contacts.
<http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Ste12000-Aquatics>.

cheers Darrel


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## sanj (22 Jul 2010)

There are no rules about it, but all the fauna is oriented towards south America, personally I would go for Rams.


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## dw1305 (23 Jul 2010)

Hi all,


> There are no rules about it, but all the fauna is oriented towards south America, personally I would go for Rams"


 Rams were my first dwarf cichlid, and I still love them, you need to find some hobbiest bred ones ideally. All the cichlids mentioned are S. American, although it is true that both Rams (and some of the Apistogramma species) naturally occur in biotopes with no true aquatic vegetation.

Rams occur in streams and  pools on the Llanos, the seasonally dry grassland in N. S. America, the waters they occur in  are shallow and very warm, with submerged leaf litter (often palm fronds) and biofilm which may have no permanent vegetation (there maybe a fringe of Paspalum sp. grass). 

"Mikrogeophagus ramirezi Ram Cichlid in their Natural Habitat" from fishfromvenezuela on youtube.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpGyXBNpERw&feature=channel> and <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KK1imwh28&feature=channel>

I haven't got the reference with me but I think they were found with Lemon and Pristella Tetras and Apistogramma macmasteri amongst others.    If you want a true biotope think A. trifasciata occurs in heavily vegetated habitats and is a  real stunner if you can find them.







cheers Darrel


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## robfromdublin (23 Jul 2010)

what a beautiful pic

Yeah I think a trip to camborne next weekend is in order.  Might be able to have a quick look round the Plymouth fish shops this weekend but don't have much time.  

For dwarf cichlids, what should I be doing in terms of water changes?  I currently do ~20% once a week but from reading around it seems most people recommend more.  What do you guys do?


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## vauxhallmark (23 Jul 2010)

robfromdublin said:
			
		

> For dwarf cichlids, what should I be doing in terms of water changes?  I currently do ~20% once a week but from reading around it seems most people recommend more.  What do you guys do?



I change 50% either once or twice a week on my dwarf cichlid tanks (but they're all planted too).

Mark


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## Garuf (23 Jul 2010)

That aspisto is stunning! Makes me think of trying them when my tank gets water in it.


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## dw1305 (23 Jul 2010)

Hi all,
I do 10% rainwater a day in all the tanks (they are all heavily planted and low nutrient/low tech.).

cheers Darrel


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## magpie (23 Jul 2010)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I do 10% rainwater a day in all the tanks (they are all heavily planted and low nutrient/low tech.).
> 
> cheers Darrel



Must be scary when we have 8 weeks without rain... 



m


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## dw1305 (23 Jul 2010)

Hi all,


> Must be scary when we have 8 weeks without rain...


 Yes I've never run out, but it has got quite close a couple of times. I've got just over 1000 litres of water at home, and another 2300 litres at work, so it does need to be quite along drought before I get too worried.

This is the back of the house with 3 water butts, I've got 2 more at the front.




and this is one of my 2 IBC's in the glasshouse.




cheers Darrel


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## sanj (24 Jul 2010)

A lovely garden too.


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## Cyworld (27 Jul 2010)

Centerpiece fish huh?
id say pygmy cories but i think maybe a white angelfish?


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## robfromdublin (28 Jul 2010)

Yeah I've enough bottom feeders with the 6 Sterbai's & 2 Bristlenose's.  I was thinking angelfish originally alright but I've been put off based on the height of my tank.


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## zoon (30 Jul 2010)

How about some killifish?  There are some species that would be suitable for a community and grow to a nice size and they tend to be very brightly coloured and more unusual.  just be careful - with some species the male can be very.... amorous!  He'll attempt to mate with anything


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## robfromdublin (10 Aug 2010)

Well, after doing a tour of 6 fish shops around Plymouth (never did make it to Camborne).  We (girlfriend, friend and I) settled on:

an angelfish

Didn't see much in the way of dwarf cichlids and none that were as spectacular as some of the photos I've seen. And as for the height of the tank, well, we're gonna see how we go with that.  I have a friend who will take the fish off our hands if indeed it does outgrow its surroundings.

New fish looks great and adds a bit of character to the tank.


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## Manisha (21 Jun 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Yes I've never run out, but it has got quite close a couple of times. I've got just over 1000 litres of water at home, and another 2300 litres at work, so it does need to be quite along drought before I get too worried.
> 
> This is the back of the house with 3 water butts, I've got 2 more at the front.
> ...



Know this is an old post & thread ... but I'm super jealous of your garden!


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## zozo (23 Jun 2016)

robfromdublin said:


> Are dwarf gouramis difficult fish to keep?



Guoramis do not like constant temperatur that much especialy the dwarf variaties seem to be sensitive to this. They seem to thrive best and live the longest in tanks which also mimic seasonal temp changes.

And because we allmost all use artificial heating, we have a rather constant temperatur. In regions where air temperature is many times way colder than the water temperatur, there is higher risks.. Gouramis dwel often near the water surface thats also where their bubble nest oftenly is build, they gasp a lot of air. So because of that temp difference some varieties are at higher risk of getting sick and are especialy not suitable for opentop tanks.

I forgot which gouramis are most sensitive for this.. I choose for the Croacking dwarf gourami, beause i got an open top and this issue was not repported with them.
All still good after a few months i'm about to find out in the long run.


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## 3rdTimeLucky (25 Jul 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> I like dwarf cichlids, and Rams are good if you can get good quality stock, but they are hopeless parents with other fish. I've also seen some very nice _Nannacara anomala_ lately, including the very striking green morph (at Amazon Aquatics in Warminster). _Laetacara dorsigera/curviceps_ would also be good.
> 
> But I think it is a perfect tank for some _Apistogramma_, how about a pair of A. _panduro/nijsenii/baenschii_ or a trio of _A. macmasteri/hongsloi/agassizi/borellii/trifasciata or cacatuoides_? It is a shame you are in Dublin as I have always have some spare _A. cacatuoides_ that you could have had.
> ...



Hi Darrel

Great selection of dwarf cichlids - can i ask if any of them are suitable in a tank with amano shrimp? And which of those you mention would tend to stay in the middle/upper regions of the tank, or are they all likely to stay in the middle/lower regions?
Thanks


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## dw1305 (26 Jul 2016)

Hi all,





3rdTimeLucky said:


> Great selection of dwarf cichlids - can i ask if any of them are suitable in a tank with amano shrimp? And which of those you mention would tend to stay in the middle/upper regions of the tank, or are they all likely to stay in the middle/lower regions?


I'm haven't kept Amano shrimps, but _Apistogramma cacatuoides_ was a great shrimp hunter with Red Cherry Shrimps, and I think the "nijsenii" group _Apistogramma _will be the same. _Apistogramma agassizii _has a smaller mouth, so it might be a better bet and the same would apply to _Apistogramma borellii _or Rams which are smaller fish.

I think all these cichlids are fairly bottoms orientated.

cheers Darrel


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