# Hardscaping-  Rock Work



## Barbara Turner (31 Oct 2019)

The time has come where I'm starting to think about a re-scape. 

I'm looking at moving towards a stone heavy scape. With a difference,  and massively more labour intensive than anything I have ever, I'm expecting the rock work alone to take a couple of months. 

I'm looking at spending a whole lot of time with a hammer, and an angle grinder with diamond grinding disc, and some stinky glue to try and create some cliffs and arches.. 

I'm wondering about shapes  like this with multiple arches, I want a more natural look than some of the arches I have seen glued together from pebbles (No offence intended)

I'm currently playing in photoshop and still a long way from anything I'm happy with, but thought I would get some feedback on rock carving..  






I spotted a shot of an award-winning stone heavy tank, Has anyone done anything similar? Was this created in a similar way to the green depot cliffs below?





What I'm trying to avoid is something like below. 




The other tank that's similar is, I just want smoother transitions between the rocks glued together, that hopefully, I can get with the addition of an angle grinder.  (trying not to cut any visible faces)






*
Choice of stone?*
The stone that jumps out for a project like this is Pagoda stone, I suspect it's going to be too expensive, I'm guessing at £4/kg and I'm looking for around 400kg .. I don't want to spend £1600 on the stone. (Closer to £500 would be nice)

Also having never done this before I could easily end up with a mess that will never make it out of the scaping box. 

I keep hearing that you can't use limestone as it will dissolve really quickly, has anyone actually experienced this on a first-hand basis? Could I just change the water twice a week to reduce the impact on the water parameters?

Any recommendations on rock types or suppliers?



Has anyone tried glueing in stainless steel support rods?


----------



## Aqua sobriquet (31 Oct 2019)

Have you considered Lava Rock? It’s much lighter in weight than most other stone and is easily reshaped. It’s available in several shades of brown and also a reddish colour.

https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/blog/2015/11/the-hidden-benefits-of-lava-rock.html

Due to the very rough surface you can often get several pieces to “stick” together without using any adhesive.


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper (31 Oct 2019)

Did someone say rock?

I'll definitely be watching this with interest.
400kg is a pretty big order, so I would approach a wholesale company like https://www.jnk-aquatics.co.uk/.
If you have a business of some sort, you can open a trade account. Or you can speak to your LFS to see if they use them and try to strike a deal, which is something I've done in the past and managed to get 25kg of seriyu stone for £42.50. The downside is you don't know what you're buying, but buying at less than £2 per kilo is worth the risk IMO. Maybe get the bulk of it this way and buy a couple of choice pieces from one of the aquascaping stores?

Whatever you do, make sure you play with the rocks for months before setting it in stone..pardon the pun!


----------



## SRP3006 (31 Oct 2019)

The Accidental Aquascaper said:


> 400kg is a pretty big order, so I would approach a wholesale company like https://www.jnk-aquatics.co.uk/.



These are my LFS and they are very approachable when it comes to bulk orders, whether it's fish, shrimp or hard scape. They have done a few deals for me with shrimp and other items. They have a large selection of rock, not sure on the price to be honest though. 

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk


----------



## Andrew Butler (31 Oct 2019)

I cannot believe this @Barbara Turner I was just about to post a very similar thread, saw your title and thought I should read it first and hey-presto.
I hope you don't mind if I piggyback your thread? 

I'm looking to create a sand/stone only hardscape and as much as I'm forever reading not to cut stone I know that certain 'big name' aquascapers do so why, if it's done in a clever way is it so wrong? This is the main question I had.


Barbara Turner said:


> What I'm trying to avoid is something like below


Completely with you here, I know there will be a fine line between things looking right and wrong but this is way past the line.


Barbara Turner said:


> Choice of stone?


I think a lot of that comes down in part at least to what you like the look of and also which look you are trying to achieve. Unsure which one ticks the most boxes for you?
Have you considered slate? - Comes in lots of different shades, it will split along the seams naturally so would make joining and cutting easier, it will also have some interesting shapes to it and is cheap. I'm almost wishing I had chose it now I have written that and may still just do so and sell my £140kg of Frodo stone!


----------



## Barbara Turner (31 Oct 2019)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> Have you considered Lava Rock?


I must confess I always considered lava rock as mat black colour,  I imagine it would be a lot easier to work with, in a similar way to dragon stone. The thing that puts me off is I don't think I will be able to hide the joints

I came across Cotswold stone earlier, it looked like a hard sandstone and probably great too shape, Whatever I do it will always look like rocks glued/screwed together...










Andrew Butler said:


> Completely with you here, I know there will be a fine line between things looking right and wrong but this is way past the line.



For me, it has to look natural. Even if in reality it's a long way from it. The plan is to avoid cutting any of the visible faces, just trim them so they fit together ideally like a jig saw.. so you can't tell it's not a massive rock / Cliff. 

Saying that I do have an avatar type picture that somehow made it onto my mood board 






Andrew Butler said:


> Have you considered slate? - Comes in lots of different shades, it will split along the seams naturally so would make joining and cutting easier, it will also have some interesting shapes to it and is cheap. I'



The flat faces might make it alot easier to join together.  When I'm a bit further on with my photoshop picture I might buy 20kg and spend an afternoon seeing what it looks like.. 

Does anyone know where pagoda stone is from?  Does it have a geological name? 

I'm guessing Frodo stone is from Poland, I would guess somewhere near the Tatras mountain range.


----------



## Andrew Butler (31 Oct 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> When I'm a bit further on with my photoshop picture I might buy 20kg and spend an afternoon seeing what it looks like.


I'm intrigued to see the photoshop picture now.
I've a feeling having something in your head and stone in front of you will mean things just develop naturally and think if you try to copy an idea it will make it harder. That said, the general idea, rough layout and whether you're looking for sharp, interesting lines or the soft, curvy cliff type look in your first photo will make a difference. If you've access to some different stone to have a play I would and see how you get on with things, find out what you can achieve.


----------



## Kezzab (31 Oct 2019)

If i were you, given where you live, i'd be taking a trip into the Peak District and have a good rummage around for "wild rock". It's mainly carboniferous limestone, like i have near me, and it works a treat in tanks. And its free. Look for abandoned quarries on a OS Map or any hillside where there's scarring/rocky outcrops. It's not like you would be industrial level pilfering, just a bit of hardscape foraging. Spending £500 on rocks just bends my brain


----------



## thatblokeoverthere (31 Oct 2019)

Tagged as I am interested to follow the development of this idea. I am also toying with the idea of a rock-heavy scape next so I am hoping to pick up some tips and inspiration.

Sent from my Mi MIX 2S using Tapatalk


----------



## Barbara Turner (1 Nov 2019)

Kezzab said:


> given where you live, i'd be taking a trip into the Peak District and have a good rummage around for "wild rock". It's mainly carboniferous limestone, like i have near me



I'm guessing the grit stone on the dark peak would be better than the Limestone further down south. One of the first tanks I scaped with wild rocks but you don't get the textures that your seiyu stone has.



Andrew Butler said:


> I'm intrigued to see the photoshop picture now.



I'm not happy with it yet, it was great while in my head but didn't work so well on the computer screen.  It's an amazingly powerful tool even if it's taken a while to learn. I'm not looking for something photo realistic just something where I can get a feeling for the balance. 
Probably not as much fun as a scape box but I don't need to buy anything.


----------



## Andrew Butler (1 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> Probably not as much fun as a scape box but I don't need to buy anything


I'd say regardless of using photoshop or not (which I still think is a nice idea) to get the general layout a scape box is something quite worthwhile practically, especially for what you're doing. Stones will be in/out quite a lot and it's asking for trouble in my opinion.
I'm unsure quite how big your aquarium is but you can buy the wood cut to size for most 1200mm or less aquariums for sub £30 - loads of places like B&Q offer it as a free service or charge a small amount for each cut on the big panel saws they have. Then you just need a drill with some bits, a pencil and a few screws - et voila!


Barbara Turner said:


> One of the first tanks I scaped with wild rocks but you don't get the textures that your seiyu stone has.


What kind of texture are you after? If you are looking to recreate something along the lines


Barbara Turner said:


> some stinky glue


There are other glues around, lookup reef putty, reef cement or just a superglue if the joints are all tight. Colour of the reef putty and cement can be a problem but all depends on the stone you choose and look around as there are different coloured ones.

I had a look through that video and to be honest I'm not all that impressed with the rockwork as a stand alone structure, even just looking at the aquarium when finished I'm not a huge fan but the competition photo I do think looks dramatic and very different - I think this shows how this is a competition tank and not one intended for longevity in the home which I guess is what you are looking to achieve? The great voids behind the stonework etc just aren't practical in my opinion.


----------



## Kezzab (1 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> I'm guessing the grit stone on the dark peak would be better than the Limestone further down south. One of the first tanks I scaped with wild rocks but you don't get the textures that your seiyu stone has.


I'm not sure thats true about the texture, especially with the limestone (whixh isnt the kind that dissolves fast). Pics of past scape of mine and my "stash" below. I think its plenty textured but not quite seiyru level. But it was £0.


----------



## david boden (1 Nov 2019)

HI Barbara , I'm no aquascaper myself, just a simple shrimper using bogwood and some dragon stone.
However, I do have some construction background, and couldn't help feeling the need to tell you something you already know, I'm pretty sure.

-------That tank is gonna be bloomin' heavy !......be very careful how you support its weight.

That's it-----bye


----------



## Barbara Turner (1 Nov 2019)

david boden said:


> --That tank is gonna be bloomin' heavy !......be very careful how you support its weight.




Yes.  very. I'm planning to make a collection of rock assemblies that can be lifted into the tank.. 

Anyone has seen this rock before? Just trying to get a price


----------



## Barbara Turner (1 Nov 2019)

Has anyone seen these before. Some of the best rock work I have seen. 

Lots of frodo stone and riccardia moss?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/AquamanStudio/about/?ref=page_internal
http://aquamandesign.com


----------



## Kalum (1 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> Has anyone seen these before. Some of the best rock work I have seen.
> 
> Lots of frodo stone and riccardia moss?
> 
> ...



Yeh I bought a scape from them previously (still have the ancient manten stone sitting in a cupboard) and failed miserably to recreate it 

They are good and the stone is amazing but you obviously pay for the pleasure


----------



## Aqua sobriquet (1 Nov 2019)

david boden said:


> HI Barbara , I'm no aquascaper myself, just a simple shrimper using bogwood and some dragon stone.
> However, I do have some construction background, and couldn't help feeling the need to tell you something you already know, I'm pretty sure.
> 
> -------That tank is gonna be bloomin' heavy !......be very careful how you support its weight.
> ...



Yes, I was thinking that as well. Also if you’re “building” a scape from lots of pieces what happens if a big bit falls off?!

Good luck with the project, looking forward to seeing some pictures when it’s finished.


----------



## Andrew Butler (1 Nov 2019)

I brought a layout from them before too when I was having problems finding any large stone in the UK, as @Kalum says you sure do pay for the pleasure or not as was in my case. The photos they sent were very misleading so I sent the lot back. The moss is there in large to hide the joints which is a shame as I think it highlights them instead in some places. More recently they seem to be more focused on gluing lots of smaller pieces together and selling them kind of ready assembled which is good in some ways.



Aqua sobriquet said:


> if you’re “building” a scape from lots of pieces what happens if a big bit falls off?!


You can do things like add rods/dowels and use them to reinforce the joints, if you clean and prepare the joints properly they should be at least as strong as the stone itself.

Are the pictures above from Aquaman the kind of thing you're looking towards @Barbara Turner ?


----------



## Barbara Turner (1 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> re the pictures above from Aquaman the kind of thing you're looking towards @Barbara Turner ?



Yes and No.. I Love the shape and texture Aquaman gets, Just a shame the stone is so expensive. Hopefully, I can get a similar appearance with a cheaper rock. 
I'm going for more of a stone jungle using a whole range of plants to get a range of colours and textures. 

I'm still working out a plan.


----------



## Barbara Turner (1 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> I brought a layout from them before too when I was having problems finding any large stone in the UK, as @Kalum says you sure do pay for the pleasure or not as was in my case. The photos they sent were very misleading so I sent the lot back. The moss is there in large to hide the joints which is a shame as I think it highlights them instead in some places. More recently they seem to be more focused on gluing lots of smaller pieces together and selling them kind of ready assembled which is good in some ways.



Looking at the stone closely, do you think they grind the faces before they glue them? How thick are some of the glue joints, I'm guessing the glue is a similar colour to the rock?


----------



## Andrew Butler (2 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> Looking at the stone closely, do you think they grind the faces before they glue them? How thick are some of the glue joints, I'm guessing the glue is a similar colour to the rock?


-Grinding, I'm not sure but I'd lean towards no if I had to guess as they have a whole lotta stone to pick from, it naturally has flat spots, irregular shapes, angles etc. *I didn't buy a pre-assembled piece from them.
-Joint thickness, I think the only way to look at glue joints is by examining their photos but some look quite close and others not so flat-flat and tight.
-Glue, I know they use a superglue of some description which is clear although they describe it as cyanoacrylate glue which is just a quick drying superglue.

'Ancient stone' they told me was a stone which they had exclusive access to from somewhere in Poland but I cannot remember where if they did tell me, someone with Geological knowledge might be able to assist further here and help you find a stone with similar properties.

From experience I know choosing a stone with quite an even colour will help you transition between stones without sticking out so much which is something maybe worth baring in mind too.

The type of stone Aquaman uses I don't think lends itself to shaping anything like the Cotswold stone you mentioned earlier but the Cotswold stone would need to be sealed in my opinion, maybe other people have thoughts on using softer stones which could be shaped and sealing them afterwards? - Opens up a whole new world and a very different method.

I'd also guess if you're buying that much that a cheaper way of doing it could be buying direct from a distributor and just getting a bulk bag plonked on your driveway, something worth looking into maybe?



Barbara Turner said:


> I'm going for more of a stone jungle using a whole range of plants to get a range of colours and textures





Barbara Turner said:


> I'm still working out a plan.


As ever I'm intrigued.


----------



## dw1305 (2 Nov 2019)

Hi all,





Barbara Turner said:


> I came across Cotswold stone earlier, it looked like a hard sandstone


It is Jurassic age limestone. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Edvet (2 Nov 2019)

Thought about artificiël rock? Or a DIY version?


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper (2 Nov 2019)

This is worth watching for some inspiration - 
The Aquaman stuff, nice rock, but it's not being used to it's potential.

I'm sure they grind or chisel bits off to get the stones to sit neatly together.
There's probably more than 1 option for glue. I have used superglue with cigarette filters. I think Balazs uses some kind of epoxy in the video posted above, probably because he needs so much of it.
You can always crumble some soil on to the bits of glue you can see.

This seems like such a huge project, I would be tempted to see if you can achieve something similar in 30cm cube or a 60p.
It'll hone your skills and probably inform you of what you want to build in the bigger tank.

I wish I had made my small tank before the big one.


----------



## Barbara Turner (2 Nov 2019)

The Accidental Aquascaper said:


> This is worth watching for some inspiration



Well worth watching, One of the best tutorial videos I have watched, especially if you are looking at going down the wild side.
It would be good to get that video pinned into the tutorial section.


----------



## tiger15 (2 Nov 2019)

There is a trick to use cigarette filter with Superglue to make strong bonding between rock.  It’s an exothermal reaction so make sure to wear glove to prevent burning of skin.


----------



## Barbara Turner (3 Nov 2019)

Does anyone know if anything similar to 3560 SUPER ANCORA VERTICALE is available in the UK, 
Looks like an aquarium based polyester based glue


I've used plenty of superglue with without cigarette butt's and it's not amazing.. Messy and brittle.


----------



## david boden (3 Nov 2019)

Hi Barbara----I bet I'm the only person on here who knows where Ashby is,--- without looking it up !

Until 14 years ago, I lived in Burton, and bought my dogs over to Ashby for Virginia Birch to groom-----is she still around there ?


----------



## Barbara Turner (3 Nov 2019)

david boden said:


> Until 14 years ago, I lived in Burton, and bought my dogs over to Ashby for Virginia Birch to groom-



The name doesn't ring a bell, but I don't have a dog so not sure I would have noticed.  Is she on Market Street?


----------



## david boden (3 Nov 2019)

It doesn't matter Barbara,  but she used to be on RHS just after the sharp bend out or town centre ,and up the hill towards  Burton.

A little commercial estate down a stony track.

Anyway, I was 0nly reminiscing .....57 happy years up there !


----------



## Andrew Butler (4 Nov 2019)

I do think the best method of joining could still be down to your stone choice and the layout or shapes you want. You may choose a stone which is more porous than others, some pieces may need dowels or reinforcing adding to support the structure which could also effect things.



Barbara Turner said:


> Does anyone know if anything similar to 3560 SUPER ANCORA VERTICALE is available in the UK


I think the short answer is yes, finding the exact product is the challenge as if you read the datasheet it says:
_'To stick on materials often in contact with water, it is recommended the use of our epoxy mastic CANOVA VERTICALE PAGLIERINO code 3564 4142'_
Which to me suggests that 3560 may not be the correct choice although searching 3564 on manufacturers website shows no results either 
https://www.impa.it/en/prodotti/edilizia/super-ancora-verticale
Reading the product description below makes it sound like a product used quite widely in construction; Polyester resin. Although it comes in many different forms I wonder whether the widely available types where you simply slide it into a mastic gun and the spiral nozzle mixes the 2 parts would be simple enough. I also wonder if it is a styrene free version would be more suitable in aquatics?
_'Two-component putty based on unsaturated polyester resins, suitable for application on vertical surfaces without sagging; it allows repairing or reconstruction of stone items. After hardening it has the aspect and hardness of marble, and may be worked and polished as stone.'_



Barbara Turner said:


> I've used plenty of superglue with without cigarette butt's and it's not amazing


That all depends on what type of superglue you use; there's loads of different types, consistencies, setting times and even accelerants you can add.
Not saying any are the right product for you though.

Have you written the option of using a softer stone and sealing the whole structure off?
If this would work for you then stones that keep a more consistent colour would be easier and use flat cuts to join them, dowel them, shape them after it's all together which isn't as daunting as it might sound before sealing. Sounds very different I know but I think worth a think over or even a trial.


----------



## tiger15 (4 Nov 2019)

There are only two type of Superglue I am aware of.  Gel type that  is good for gluing plants and rock or wood already having good contact.  Liquid type is best to use with cigarette filter or other matrix to improve contact.   The gel type has already incorporated matrix but it's uneconomical if you need to use a lot to fill gaps.  

I am comfortable to glue porous rock such as larva and lace rock that are light and interlock naturally by their rough surfaces but very cautious to  attempt on heavier rock.


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> That all depends on what type of superglue you use; there's loads of different types, consistencies, setting times and even accelerants you can add.
> Not saying any are the right product for you though.



Activator is great, I have a can of the stuff, but I wouldn't use it in the same room as the fish tank.
 Ideally, I would like a paste that's a similar cover to the rock that will fill up gaps with a cure time of about 5 minutes.


tiger15 said:


> There are only two type of Superglue I am aware of.  Gel type that  is good for gluing plants and rock or wood already having good contact.  Liquid type is best to use with cigarette filter or other matrix to improve contact.   The gel type has already incorporated matrix but it's uneconomical if you need to use a lot to fill gaps.
> 
> I am comfortable to glue porous rock such as larva and lace rock that are light and interlock naturally by their rough surfaces but very cautious to  attempt on heavier rock.



Some of the two part epoxies are incredibly strong, a lot of anchor bolts for climbing are now glues in. Challange is finding one that's not going to poison the fish. 



Andrew Butler said:


> Have you written the option of using a softer stone and sealing the whole structure off?


I'm still not sure what I'm going to do, I'm not happy with my photoshop plan, unsure if to carry on with it, or scrap it and start again.


----------



## Andrew Butler (4 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> I would like a paste that's a similar cover to the rock that will fill up gaps with a cure time of about 5 minutes


Here lies part of my previous comment about having your rock choice before answers can be made.
I used Nyos reef cement on my marine aquarium a few years back and found it good. If it's not the right colour then I guess somehow adding ground up pieces of your rock choice over the joints after they are structural would be an option.
https://www.nyos.info/en/watercare-salts/reef-cement
There are other reef putties etc out there which are meant for this kind of thing too.



Barbara Turner said:


> Some of the two part epoxies are incredibly strong, a lot of anchor bolts for climbing are now glues in


That's exactly what I was referring to earlier, only in a different packaging; I know some you have a capsule you push into the hole drilled then as you hit the anchor in it will make the capsule 'explode' and mix together which is what the Polyester resin is only the way I showed it was in a mastic gun type form with a spiraling nozzle which mixes them.


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

This is how far I got.. Please criticise 

The Valley in the centre would be fully planted, with Bruce and anubiias towards the outside


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

For me, it needs to be a lot more of a jungle. Maybe push the rocks back and get rid of the tree.  add some twisted roots around the stone spikes.


----------



## Andrew Butler (4 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> Please criticise


Looks pretty impressive to me! - unsure what you've been so shy about 

Time for questions again then.......
What size is the aquarium, I don't think you said before but it looks very deep in the picture.
If you want to carry a shadowed illusion further back, include the clouds - maybe even the tree then I found a way of getting a vinyl picture printed off and applied it to my last attempt which didn't get very far but I think the backlit picture looked interesting, despite it only being sky.
Are all of the smaller features further back to be stone and include the tree?


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

The tank is 120 long x 60 deep x 53 high. 

The Clouds in the background as you say would be vinyl printed on a light board, 

All the rocks and tree would be real.. I'm not sure how I get the rocks in the background to be lighter. I should be able to select rocks with a finer texture.


----------



## Andrew Butler (4 Nov 2019)

All just my opinion so I hope I don't offend you, it's just as I see it..............
My main input is I'm unsure you will create such a sense of depth with only 600mm as your picture shows. I'd imagine you will lose at least 50mm to plants at the very front and if you're thinking of pushing it back would make it even harder. The picture shows a really interesting looking almost eerie sense which I think looks great.
I'd agree the tree isn't needed

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about jungle sense and the look you have, they sound very different to me

The first thing your picture said to me to make things easier was to consider two structures leaning towards each other in opposite directions, one going over the top of the other and poking out the water if that suits your desires. That would make the whole thing far more self supporting and would equally lend itself to budget friendly slate and the main structure could be made up of 2 pieces if you were to find ones that suit - if only the tons and tons of slag laying on the welsh hillsides was free! The pieces would weigh quite a bit though which has its pros and cons as they could also be in one piece.


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper (4 Nov 2019)

That’s some serious overhang you’ve got there!
It’s got a similar feel to this by Balazs at GreenAqua.


The tree in the middle is messing with your proportions and perspective. That tree would be enormous.

The bases of the overhangs don’t seem substantial enough. I like how the top right ‘drawn’ overhang in the background has an almost vertical section.

I’ve got lots of other suggestions, but I would be making suggestions to make it look how ‘I‘ would want it to look. At the end of the day it’s your tank, so it’s more about what you want to achieve.


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

I'm not happy with it yet..  So I welcome suggestions. 

I like the way they look impossible, It's also got to be a little bit darker than real life.  Just wondering now what rock is available that's jet black, It would give a great contrast against the plants. 
 I was thinking about hiding a sheet of black HDPE  /stainless underneath the sand and screwing the rocks to it .  without linking them together they are never going to stand up.. 

I've deleted the tree and moved the main rocks back behind two corner rocks. (Please forgive my photoshop skills I'm learning as I go along)



Andrew Butler said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you mean about jungle sense and the look you have, they sound very different to me



I want more of a wild look, at the minute it does suggest a Iwagumi tank, I want to put in 50 different types of plants and mosses, for me, it creates lots more interest. 
I got bored of my iwagumi tank almost as soon as i had finished it. it doesn't evolve in the same way and change. 



Andrew Butler said:


> - if only the tons and tons of slag laying on the welsh hillsides was free!



I have thought about this, the only thing that puts me off os to try and get the depth I need lots of details at the front.. and then less at the back to try and help with the sense of depth.. 
I'm just not sure you would get the detail. 



Andrew Butler said:


> My main input is I'm unsure you will create such a sense of depth with only 600mm as your picture shows.




This does worry me.. I was wondering how much a new tank would cost but don't think I have space in my new lounge ( moving house which is one of the reasons for a re-scape)


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

The Accidental Aquascaper said:


> It’s got a similar feel to this by Balazs at GreenAqua.



Is the rock slate? I thought slate was more purple (sorry for the shocking English)


----------



## The Accidental Aquascaper (4 Nov 2019)

I don't think it's rock. Don't know what it's made of, but I think a model maker made it.


----------



## Barbara Turner (4 Nov 2019)

The Accidental Aquascaper said:


> Don't know what it's made of, but I think a model maker made it.



Very Impressive if they are all hand carved.


----------



## alto (5 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> The tank is 120 long x 60 deep x 53 high.



The depth is fine but you may struggle a bit with the length (150 might be more manageable)

From Viktor’s flickr page 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/viktorlantos/12799206145/in/photostream/lightbox/

(as I recall tank is 180 x 60 x 60cm)


----------



## Kalum (5 Nov 2019)

Something like this with the banked slopes at the sides might be a bit more achievable?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B324b5VHD8L/?igshid=1m2tmtoesxt30


----------



## Barbara Turner (5 Nov 2019)

My problem with the two tanks above (my opinion only) is they struggle to get a feeling of depth.. Like something compared to this one by Grégoire Wolinski. 

I want to bring the sides in with plants, (they're just not very easy to model in), possibly also some twisted roots  wrapping around the stone spikes linking it all together,


----------



## sparkyweasel (5 Nov 2019)

Barbara Turner said:


> Just wondering now what rock is available that's jet black,


Coal.
It was quite popular in aquascapes years ago, easy to cut and shape too. And not as heavy as a lot of rocks.


----------



## Barbara Turner (6 Nov 2019)

sparkyweasel said:


> Coal.
> It was quite popular in aquascapes years ago, easy to cut and shape too. And not as heavy as a lot of rocks.



Interesting.. I  wouldn't think twice about adding activated carbon but i never considered coal.  I'm just googling solid-fuel merchants and going to try and find someone I can get some big lumps from. 
Worth having a play with..


----------



## dw1305 (6 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Barbara Turner said:


> I can get some big lumps from


I'd try and get the best quality "anthracite" (high carbon coal), it shouldn't have as many impurities. 

cheers  Darrel


----------



## tiger15 (6 Nov 2019)

There are broadly two type of coal used in the industry.  High carbon coal for steel making, and high octane coal for power plants.  The former has less toxic PAH compounds and metals and is better suited for aquarium use.  Since we don’t burn  coal in the aquarium, not much toxic compounds are bio available, but do watch out for coal dust.


----------

