# Surface agitation and CO2



## dougbraz (28 May 2021)

I have a 30 gal low tech jungle style tank. I recently read that increased (water) circulation was good (in general), so I installed a circulation pump to add to my canister filter circulation. I then first heard that surface agitation increase was also beneficial for oxygenation, so pointed the canister filter return more upwards to increase this. Adding Seachem Excel on a daily basis. As the plants steadily grew more, I increased the dosage. I THEN noticed that green hair algae started to appear and after further reading, I saw that apparently the increased surface agitation actually helped speed up co2 dissipation, so I should reduce this surface agitation while still increasing Excel dosage as the plants grew (obviously with a "lower" dosage after pruning). Lighting has been a constant 6 hours a day with an hour before and after to bring the power to 65% or at the end lowering same to zero. pH is a fairly steady 6, water temp about 25ºC.
In another thread here I read that surface agitation should be increased in low tech tanks.
Fair to say, I'm getting confused. Does anyone have any pointers?


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## dw1305 (28 May 2021)

Hi all,


dougbraz said:


> I read that surface agitation should be increased in low tech tanks. Fair to say, I'm getting confused. Does anyone have any pointers?





dougbraz said:


> I saw that apparently the increased surface agitation actually helped speed up co2 dissipation, so I should reduce this surface agitation while still increasing Excel dosage as the plants grew


This is only really true if you add pressurised CO2. In that case with increased surface movement you have a <"larger gas exchange surface area"> and more CO2 will be lost to the atmosphere. <"Glutaraldehyde based carbon supplements"> (like Excel) don't ever actually become CO2, so this doesn't apply to them.

In a low tech more surface agitation is likely to <"increase levels of CO2 during photosynthesis">, and increase levels of oxygen during the dark period.



dougbraz said:


> As the plants steadily grew more, I increased the dosage. I THEN noticed that green hair algae started to appear


This just means that conditions (light and nutrients) were suitable for plant growth. The Green Algae are <"physiologically very close"> to all the other green plants.


> ...........but if you create ideal growing conditions for the plants you want, you also create ideal growing conditions for the ones you don't. All the green plants (those that possess chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b) are identical in terms of their basic photosynthetic physiology. They form a monophyletic clade (<"the Chlorobionta or Viridiplantae">), with a single common ancestor.
> 
> The "green plants" are all the plants we want to grow (mosses, ferns and higher plants), plus some we don't, and we call these ones "green algae".......



cheers Darrel


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## dougbraz (28 May 2021)

Words of wisdom much appreciated Darrel - thank you.
So...reverting to the algae, perhaps an amano shrimp or two would be a good choice - or some nerite snails?
Just to be doubly sure, amanos are caridine shrimps, not neo-caridine, correct?


cheers


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## sparkyweasel (28 May 2021)

dougbraz said:


> I recently read that increased (water) circulation was good (in general),


Increasing it is only good if it was previously insufficient and causing problems, and the same goes for surface agitation.


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## Easternlethal (29 May 2021)

Algae which settles on plants and hardscapes is more likely to be due to excess organics. This might sound confusing but you can think of it another way: perfect co2 and growing plants do not automatically remove algae.

Increase water changes and cleaning on top of co2 tweaking and you'll eventually get there. Be patient and don't expect overnight results.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk


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## dw1305 (29 May 2021)

Hi all, 


dougbraz said:


> perhaps an amano shrimp or two would be a good choice - or some nerite snails?


I haven't kept either Nerite Snails or Amano shrimps, but I think that Nerite shrimps are good for hard surfaces, but not soo much for algae on plants and that Amano shrimps will eat green hair algae, but not _Cladophora._

cheers Darrel


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## Driftless (29 May 2021)

I have Nerites and other snails and Amanos and other shrimp, they are nice but they don't really clean your tank of algae, you do with manual removal and tweaking the parameters.  FYI - the best algae clean-up crew members that I have are 6 Panda Garras in one of my tanks, fun little fish.


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## dougbraz (31 May 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Amano shrimps will eat green hair algae,


Thanks Darrell - just having a hard time finding them in the market here..


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## dougbraz (31 May 2021)

Driftless said:


> I have Nerites and other snails and Amanos and other shrimp, they are nice but they don't really clean your tank of algae, you do with manual removal and tweaking the parameters.  FYI - the best algae clean-up crew members that I have are 6 Panda Garras in one of my tanks, fun little fish.


6 Panda Garras at 10-12 quid each here stretches the budget a wee bit - but thanks for the info!


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## dougbraz (31 May 2021)

Easternlethal said:


> Be patient


Oh we try, we try! but omigod it can be trying at times! I think one of the biggest problems for a newbie is the excess of (at times even conflicting) information available. You have to recognise that there is no 'one-size-fits-all' solution and work around it as best you can.


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## Mooner (31 May 2021)

This is a Non-CO2 injected tank correct? lowtech?
Way too much light for lowtech tank. Lower lighting to 40% @ 6hrs duration.
What fertilizers are you using?
What is the substrate?
What water change schedule are you doing?


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## Driftless (1 Jun 2021)

dougbraz said:


> 6 Panda Garras at 10-12 quid each here stretches the budget a wee bit - but thanks for the info!


Fun fish!  Great clean-up crew.  When you work on the tank they come and nibble on your skin and tickle you!  It freaks one of my employees out but I love it.

P.S. - they are in a large tank.


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## dougbraz (1 Jun 2021)

Driftless said:


> Fun fish!  Great clean-up crew.  When you work on the tank they come and nibble on your skin and tickle you!  It freaks one of my employees out but I love it.
> 
> P.S. - they are in a large tank.


hah! like with Siamese algae eaters, they would get too big for my 30-gallon tank quite soon.


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## Driftless (1 Jun 2021)

I believe that SAE's can grow up to 6" which is twice as big as garras. Still, 3" is big for many tanks I have them in an angelfish tank.


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## dougbraz (4 Jun 2021)

Driftless said:


> I believe that SAE's can grow up to 6" which is twice as big as garras. Still, 3" is big for many tanks I have them in an angelfish tank.


Yup, a bit bigger than I want - already dreading the kissing gouramis growing too big...but thanks for the feedback!


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## Sean Scapes (24 Jun 2021)

A good algae eater that doesn't grow to big are definitely otos. They happily eat algae on plants and hardscape. Only downside to otos is they are very sensitive to temp and water parameter changes, this mainly applies to when introducing them to tank for the first time. Amano shrimp are exactly the same. 

My algae crew is currently 5 otos and 6 amano shrimps. Amanos are brilliant foraging creatures and provided you have sufficient numbers with happily clean your tank of most algaes and waste fish foods. Amanos have many names Caridina multidentata or yamato shrimps and sometimes called japonica shrimp.

SAE are great for BBA algae but they grow big.


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