# Estimative Index and Light



## Pedro Viveiros (22 Oct 2014)

Hello everyone,
This is my first tank, as described below. Recently I had some Stag Horn algae, and diatoms, I tested the NO3, that was 0 ppm, and made some “emergency” fertilization, noticing improvement in plants... After that, I decided to initiate the EI method, but I’m confused about the EI target doses, in ppm, for macro elements.

The questions are:
-In my case, how many ppm of KNO3 and KH2PO4 for the week, divided in how many days?
-Can I work with this light, or it’s to low?

(I will dose the macros in solution, and already have the salts to make the mix. For micros, I’m thinking in using the Tropica Premium Fertiliser)

Any advice will be appreciated.

Aquarium configuration:

Dimensions: 30x30x30cm (22Liters - 5.8 G) 
Start Date: September 10, 2014.
Parameters
PH +/-6,9 (CO2 ON) +/- 7.3 (CO2 OFF)
KH- 6.5º
No2- 0 ppm (before fertilization, now is around 20, I guess?)
NO3- 0 ppm
Po4 0.25 ppm 
Co2: Pressurized, inline reactor,+/- 0.5 bubble per second turned on 2H before light and turned off 1H before light.
Light: (8H) Flexi-mini HCRI LED  (9W, 675lm, 6700k)
Filter: EHEIM classic 150
Soil: Aquarium Soil Powder, Tropica

Plants: 
Microsorum Pteropus Narrow
Bacopa 'Compact'
Anubias sp. Petite
Hydrocotyle tripartite
Ludwigia glandulosa
Eleocharis sp. Mini 

Fauna:
Neocaridina heteropoda (14, and baby shrimps)
Rasbora brigittae (7)


----------



## ian_m (22 Oct 2014)

Hi Pedro,
Nice shrimp...

Don't get confused over EI, premix as in link below and in your case dose about 5ml macro and 5ml micro on alternate days. No need to consider PPM etc, just remember to dose daily about 5ml (a syringe to help dose might speed things up), doesn't need to be 100% accurate, what ever is easiest.
http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

I have never worked out the ppm, grams or what ever for my tank just dosed the above solutions. Also I have never used a test kit as not necessary with EI and invariable the hobby ones will giver erroneous readings just to add to the confusion.

Your light probably puts you in high light area, 9W LED over 30litres, which could explain your algae issues. Unfortunately unless you know the lumen output from your light your will have to just "suck it and see". If too much light (ie algae and plants melting) can you raise it ?, put a diffuser over it ? if necessary.

Do you have a drop checker as that will indicate the CO2 level in the water ? as suspect you might have CO2 issues. Have you got your pH readings right, adding CO2 drops the pH, makes it more acidic.

You should try to aim for a drop of 1pH at lights on (not lights off).

See the chart here.
http://tropica.com/en/guide/make-your-aquarium-a-success/fertiliser-and-co2/

Also a water reading of KH of 6.5 should give a pH of nearly 8 from the above graph, so you have something wrong somewhere (or I miss understand your readings).

However you have shrimp so have to be careful. Some people report shrimp leaving their tanks (literally jumping out) when CO2 is high.


----------



## Pedro Viveiros (22 Oct 2014)

Hi Ian,
Tanks for the link and explanation.

To clarify:
My PH is Lower wen the CO2 is ON...
Typical day :
9  AM- CO2 turns ON, PH is 7.3;
11 AM- light turn ON PH is +/- 7;
18 PM- PH is 6.9 and CO2 is turned OFF;
19 PM- Light is turned OFF.

My estimated maximum CO2 By the PH-KH table)  is 24ppm (in the end of CO2 period)  and minimum is 9.7ppm (in the morning).
KH is 6.5º
I have an CO2 test and 4KH solution, but I'm waiting for the  drop checker, I have order... I think I will DIY one, to test the CO2...
About the light it as 675 lm, and 6700k the PAR table is above:


----------



## ceg4048 (22 Oct 2014)

Pedro Viveiros said:


> My estimated maximum CO2 By the PH-KH table) is 24ppm (in the end of CO2 period) and minimum is 9.7ppm (in the morning).


This estimate will always be wrong. You should never use the tables to determine CO2 concentration levels. The good news for shrimp keepers is that it is always wrong in the high direction, so the real number is always lower than what is calculated. This is concurrently bad news for plants.

Cheers,


----------



## Pedro Viveiros (22 Oct 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> This estimate will always be wrong. You should never use the tables to determine CO2 concentration levels. The good news for shrimp keepers is that it is always wrong in the high direction, so the real number is always lower than what is calculated. This is concurrently bad news for plants.
> 
> Cheers,


Good for the shrimps!... I also heard about taking a sample of the tank, and shaking it, for degassing, and then comparing the PH ... 
I will use the drop checker as soon as possible.
Cheers,


----------



## Pedro Viveiros (22 Oct 2014)

According with the _Flexi mini_ PAR table, and my tank size, the PAR would be 30/40 on the bottom of the tank. Do you think this adequate? Any one has experience with this light? 



ian_m said:


> Your light probably puts you in high light area, 9W LED over 30litres, which could explain your algae issues. Unfortunately unless you know the lumen output from your light your will have to just "suck it and see". If too much light (ie algae and plants melting) can you raise it ?, put a diffuser over it ? if necessary.



Do you think was to much light, that caused the algae issues? Couldn't the Stag Horn, mor likely to be caused by the lack of nutrients?


----------



## ian_m (22 Oct 2014)

One of the causes of staghorn is insufficient co2. You have co2 injection, but clearly not enough for your light level.

This is yet another thing pointing to too little CO2 for your light level.

You need your drop checker to gauge you CO2 properly rather than guessing from inaccurate measurements.

Again be careful with CO2 and shrimps.


----------



## Pedro Viveiros (6 Mar 2015)

Hi,

My Ludwigia Glandulosa new leaves are getting curled, and have some light yellow spots. I had this in the past, so I increased CO2 and made some pruning. The plants got better, but now they are getting curled again… Could you be so kind and look at the photos to give your opinion. More CO2?

https://flic.kr/p/rcZkcA
https://flic.kr/p/rd7LwF
https://flic.kr/p/qxMeJZ

I use EI method. I prepare the macro solution from powder, and use Tropica Plant Growth Premium for the micros. 
Drop checker is green.

Thanks for your help,

Pedro


----------

