# Ill fish, but what is it? (fungal bacterial?)



## Hokum (20 Dec 2009)

One of my white clouds has a lump on its lip, white against the fishes colour. It doesn't seem to be feeding much either. What can i do to help the fish?


----------



## aquaticmaniac (20 Dec 2009)

This looks like columnaris to me (aka 'mouth fungus', 'cotton mouth'). It's actually a bacterial infection. It's generally brought on by stress, poorly kept aquaria, or recently moved fish. To my knowledge, it can be quite contagious, but doesn't always progress quickly. 

These are some questions to think about:
Is this a new fish?
Any stress or injury that might have occurred?
Do you clean your aquarium regularly?
How long have you noticed the signs of the infection? The first signs are often discolouration around the mouth, but this can be easily overlooked until the cottony patches and lesions appear.

It's possible that this is a secondary infection. That is to say, the fish injured his mouth and the bacterial infection is a result of it. In any case, the causes are the same.

To treat the infection, I recommend an anti-bacterial for external infections. I would also do a water change beforehand. I'm sorry, but I can't recommend a name brand in particular, as I haven't used any in the UK yet.
You _can_ treat with salt, but since you *probably* have a planted tank anyway, that's not the best route. Treatment may or may not save this particular fish, but it should keep it from spreading to your other fish. This all depends on how badly the fish is infected (whether or not it has spread internally or how starved/ill he is from it).

Best of luck 

EDIT: Just to add on medication, you apparently can get API's Melafix at Pets at Home. This has and also hasn't worked for me in the past. I know aquarists who swear by it and who think it's rubbish. It's tea tree oil and has anti-bacterial properties, so it can work for some things...just something to think about.


----------



## Hokum (21 Dec 2009)

I thought it maybe columnaris, but i hadn't seen it before my self. The fish are new, just over a week old. The tank is cleaned weekly and has 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 20ppm nitrates. The tank is a 100l stream style tank with Sagittaria and Egeria Densa. 

Sadly the fish succomed last night and is the second fish to die. I'll pick up some Melafix today on my way home and see if it helps the remaining 5 fish. The other fish had no external symptoms but the death meant i did a 30% water change then added some tetra easy balance incase i had something i hadn't tested for out of whack. Does Melafix effect snails? As i have a number of them in the tank two. The tank was fishless cycled and completed about two weeks ago. Is there anything else i sould be doing? The WCMM also spawned and i have about 9 fry in the tank also at the moment would they be effected by it?


----------



## roadmaster (21 Dec 2009)

Have kept the white cloud mountain minnows and usually purchase fish such as these in groups of ten or twelve and expect perhaps the loss of a couple.Your water parameters sound good and I would were it me,, Just continue to monitor the fish while providing optimum water quality.
 I am not inclined to begin medicating my tanks with the loss of one fish without knowing specifically what I am treating. Opinions vary.If other fish began displaying similar symptoms, I would use a fungal and bacterial medication as opposed to melafix or pimafix.Perhaps Maracyn and or Maracyn II.
 Would also view replacement fish closely before purchasing to hopefully spot anything that looked abnormal and would always consider a quarantine tank which could be clear plastic tub with sponge filter and heater. unless sponge filter was colonized with bacteria(good kind) it will mean daily water change in quarantine tank but it beats medicating a whole tank of otherwise healthy fish.


----------



## aquaticmaniac (21 Dec 2009)

roadmaster said:
			
		

> ...I would use a fungal and bacterial medication as opposed to melafix or pimafix.Perhaps Maracyn and or Maracyn II.



Agreed. I wasn't sure if these were availbable in the UK.

Hokum, do you know if the other fish died of the same thing?


----------



## Hokum (21 Dec 2009)

The first fish died with no external symptoms, but the second one you see above. I've picked up some Ektol fluid, (like interpet internal bacteria treatment) which seems to be a non antibiotic asyou can only purchase antibiotics with a perscription froma vet. Though i'm having to take the snails out...


----------



## Hokum (20 Jan 2010)

Thought i'd post an update, the Ektol Fluid seemed to do the job and i lost no more fish. I've just picked up another four WCMM to bring my number up to 9. One of these (from another supplier) is now showing possible symptoms so i have moved it to my treatment tank and dosed with Ektol, not going through having my filter die again!

Oddly the Ektol fluid also killed off the BGA which had arrived with some plants which was a bonus.


----------



## jasoneales (19 Nov 2010)

Mouth fungus is not  F.Columnaris, it is actually caused by the fungus saprologenia. Thankfully it is one of the easiest things to treat as a variety of products will eliminate this. I hope this helps


----------

