# Help me Understand



## Brian Murphy (18 Feb 2014)

Ok heres my query, when I go to look at lighting, some of the luminares etc may have 4 x 39w for a 36" tank.  I currently have a luminare that holds 2 x 39w with one tube removed and even that is causing melt in some of my plants (I think).  It is Co2 injected via inline atomizer and I recently changed filter to a jbl cristalprofi 1501e and flow is great now.  I even made my own spraybar for it.  Even my monte carlo is starting to melt.  I'm dosing EI and Co2 is good and I'm assuming flow is good as it is really strong and drop checkers are light green at lights on.  How do people use any higher light when my one tube is too strong? I can't figure out a way of raising it as it is.  What am I doing wrong, is it the light? Or is it still distribution? I want to get 2 x TMC Grobeam 1500 Ultima with dimmer but can't really afford them at present.  Any Thoughts?

Here is some pics of what I mean ........


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## Alastair (18 Feb 2014)

Thats definitely co2/flow for sure. Looks it to me. I might be working this out wrong but that's not exactly high lighting. 
Is the flow in that area less than elsewhere as I see a rock right near it mate


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## Brian Murphy (18 Feb 2014)

The rock is not in front of that particular plant at all and I even have some plants behind some rocks and they are fine. The holes on the spraybar are the same across it and when I did a water change the other day I turned the filter on when the bar was above water level and it came out over the tank and hit the wall which about 5ft away and with great force!  It also doesn't explain why the newly planted 'monte carlo' is starting to fade away from the lush green to and yellowish colour, melting basically!


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## ceg4048 (19 Feb 2014)

The root cause, as usual, is poor CO2. Either your injection rate or your timing of the gas-on is at fault. It is highly likely that when the lights come on the gas is not dissolved in the water sufficiently. I sound like a broken record, but please check the pH profile and report the findings along with your KH.

Cheers,


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## Brian Murphy (19 Feb 2014)

I hear you Clive lol .... I am in your school of thinking and Co2 problems was the first thing I think of when problems arise.  I got a more powerful filter so I know that the filter has enough punch to deliver the goods - check! The DIY spraybar is causing me a few doubts however and I think I might drill bigger holes which in theory should allow more co2 enriched water to come out of them and I'm hoping won't affect the flow in a negative way as I think I have enough to play with. Heres hoping! 
So do you think I can rule out the lighting being too much? 39w plus built in reflectors over a 106 litre (minus substrate etc) around 100 litres. Approx. 1.39 wpg.
I had the light coming on 2 hours after co2 turn on, so from today it will be 3 hours before light on.  I might also drill a hole the next size up on each end and check to see how that goes.


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## Alastair (19 Feb 2014)

Lighting is definitely fine at that figure mate. Your co2 indicator fluid is fine isnt it? ?? I cant see what else if they're light green at lights on. What colour are they when your co2 goes off???
If the mc and the bottom of your stems are melting are you sure the flow is hitting it all???


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## Brian Murphy (19 Feb 2014)

It is light green at lights on and I even put the drop checker down beside the plants that are having problems and it was light green aswell down there.  The lights go off an hour after co2 has stopped and is light green then aswell.


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## Alastair (19 Feb 2014)

Sounds like an injection or fluid fault. If its light green at lights on it should me much lighter by the end of the Injection period mate


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## tim (19 Feb 2014)

Is it possibly too much flow ? Co2 passing the plants before they can utilise it.


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## ceg4048 (19 Feb 2014)

Brian Murphy said:


> I had the light coming on 2 hours after co2 turn on, so from today it will be 3 hours before light on. I might also drill a hole the next size up on each end and check to see how that goes.


Please perform the pH profile check as instructed in the thread Melting Marsilea hirsuta & Staurogyne repens? | UK Aquatic Plant Society
Please also report the value of your waters KH. That should be the next step.

Cheers,


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## Brian Murphy (19 Feb 2014)

Cheers Clive for that link. I will do ph testing tomorrow for a full day. Just done a quick test of my ph which was 6.0 and my kh is 4, gas will be going off in 30mins and lights an hour later. I know it means nothing until I get my ph before lights on, but 6.0 is the target, so hopefully it is a full unit drop!


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## Brian Murphy (20 Feb 2014)

So I done a couple of tests last night at 10pm and PH was 6.0 and lights went out at 11pm and at 12pm PH was 6.2, KH was 4. Todays results so far are as follows ...

Ph Test
1pm - 7.0
2pm - 7.0 (Co2 on)
3pm - 6.4
4pm - 6.0 Kh - 3
5pm - 6.0 (lights on)

I also took some pics, one of which was of a leaf of hydrophilia polysperma which looked like gas bubbles within the leaf.  



I also took some pics of the 'monte carlo' 1-2 Grow! and how it seems to be melting 




An overall pic of the tank after lights on


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## Alastair (20 Feb 2014)

Looking great murf. The only thing I can think is like tim said maybe too much flow. Have you tried a lily pipe instead??


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## Brian Murphy (20 Feb 2014)

Alastair said:


> Looking great murf. The only thing I can think is like tim said maybe too much flow. Have you tried a lily pipe instead??


 

Not on this particular scape I haven't.  I might drill bigger holes in the spraybar and see if that helps.  I'll wait and see if Clive can come up with any other solutions that I haven't thought about.


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## ceg4048 (20 Feb 2014)

More CO2 mate. By 3pm pH should be 5 or lower. Also, you need a massive trim, which will enhance flow.

Cheers,


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## Brian Murphy (20 Feb 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> More CO2 mate. By 3pm pH should be 5 or lower. Also, you need a massive trim, which will enhance flow.
> 
> Cheers,


 

5.0!?!  If I up the rate anymore I would be killing fish, I will start turning it up little by little to see how it goes.


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## Brian Murphy (6 Mar 2014)

So I got myself a digital ph reader as my liquid test kit would not go under 6.0 and will be giving it a good test when I have a full day off work.  I moved the Limnophilia aromatica (1st picture above with melt) to the middle of the tank and it seems to have come back to life, so maybe it is distribution which I am surprised at considering the decent flow (see video below).  Thinking of going back to lily pipe although I am limited to one corner of the tank as the luminare sits on the edges of the tank and takes up room.  Gonna wait to see how I get on with the ph tests before I do anything else. Trial and error is the way forward!


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## tim (6 Mar 2014)

Flow looks good apart from the far left hole seems to direct back to the right of the tank, your mc seems to be sending out runners, I'd be tempted to split those clumps up even further for faster/ better coverage.


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## Brian Murphy (6 Mar 2014)

tim said:


> Flow looks good apart from the far left hole seems to direct back to the right of the tank, your mc seems to be sending out runners, I'd be tempted to split those clumps up even further for faster/ better coverage.



Thats just the way it comes out, dunno how to rectify it. I'm hoping it is sending out runners, hard to tell tbh.  Near gassed the fish this evening aswell


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