# Hanging plant wall



## ScareCrow (16 Aug 2021)

Hi All,

I'm thinking of creating a hanging wall to hold plants and would like to get your thoughts before I create a puddle on my floor.
The idea is to take water from the tank pump it up to the top of a box that will channel all water back into the tank. Infront of the box will be a suspended planter that will rest against the box and receive water as it flows back into the aquarium below. I'm planning on using the 3x3 version of the planter below. These are made of felt and are cheaper than making something similar.




 I've read a similar post about this and that there might be salt build up, so I intend to flush it through during a water change or possibly use the spare channels on my auto doser. Anyway please see my 'technical' drawing below, showing front and side view.
Thanks in advance for your input.


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## DeepMetropolis (16 Aug 2021)

I was just thinking of doing something similar myself so I will follow this with interest. I think you can better run a seperate dosing system with a jerrycan, or you will need to top of your tank alot.


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## Courtneybst (16 Aug 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm thinking of creating a hanging wall to hold plants and would like to get your thoughts before I create a puddle on my floor.
> The idea is to take water from the tank pump it up to the top of a box that will channel all water back into the tank. Infront of the box will be a suspended planter that will rest against the box and receive water as it flows back into the aquarium below. I'm planning on using the 3x3 version of the planter below. These are made of felt and are cheaper than making something similar.
> ...


Are you thinking of doing aquatic plants or terrestrial?


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## ScareCrow (16 Aug 2021)

Courtneybst said:


> Are you thinking of doing aquatic plants or terrestrial?


Sorry should have mentioned that bit, all terrestrial.
Essentially I want to take the riparium section of my existing tank and expand it vertically.


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## Courtneybst (16 Aug 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Sorry should have mentioned that bit, all terrestrial.
> Essentially I want to take the riparium section of my existing tank and expand it vertically.
> View attachment 173217


I think it's definitely doable. I would be tempted to use some aquasoil or something because the water run off will be full of nutrients if you use regular soil and that will be a nightmare going into your aquarium.


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## ScareCrow (16 Aug 2021)

Courtneybst said:


> I think it's definitely doable. I would be tempted to use some aquasoil or something because the water run off will be full of nutrients if you use regular soil and that will be a nightmare going into your aquarium.


Sorry another detail I left out! I wasn't planning on adding soil to the pockets. Possibly filter sponge to help secure the roots but I was imagining pretty much a hydroponic setup, with all nutrients coming from the tank.


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## foxfish (16 Aug 2021)

Great experiment, as already mentioned, evaporation will be high but also the  terrestrial  plants  will be consuming  a lot of water.
You may get damp issues above the display, it might pay to  blow a small fan across the plants.
I am not sure about flow rates?
Maybe sphagnum moss or cat litter  would work as a medium in the holders.
I hope you give it a try…..


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## Courtneybst (16 Aug 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Sorry another detail I left out! I wasn't planning on adding soil to the pockets. Possibly filter sponge to help secure the roots but I was imagining pretty much a hydroponic setup, with all nutrients coming from the tank.


Oh ok interesting! Would like to see how it goes, it's cool project.


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## tiger15 (19 Aug 2021)

Check this out.






						Indoor Vertical Garden
					

I have a wall in my apartment roughly 16ft long. Looking to make an indoor vertical garden to cover all of it. My plan is to create a lower plant bed out of 2x8s. The bed will be roughly 16’x2’x8” tall. On the back side of the bed, a 2x6 construction will go up almost to the ceiling flat against...




					www.monsterfishkeepers.com


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## ScareCrow (19 Aug 2021)

tiger15 said:


> Check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is amazing, thanks for sharing the link. On a much larger scale than I had in mind but proves that it's possible.


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## mort (20 Aug 2021)

In the amazon building in seattle there is a 17ft tank with living wall behind it. They treat them as two different instillations and it might be easier to do the same as your going for terrestrial plants. It could make things simpler and mean you have less moisture worries.


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## ScareCrow (20 Aug 2021)

Thanks for your reply @mort. I have seen a video of that and it looks amazing. 
When you say "less moisture worries" this is my main concern since foxfish pointed it out, as it was something I'd over looked. How would evaporation be reduced using a separate system? Or do you mean there would be less likelihood of leaks?


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## mort (20 Aug 2021)

I think it's easier to keep excess moisture levels down with a separate system because you can basically keep the substrate dryer. Terrestrial plants don't need constantly wet roots and keeping them moist is reasonably easy without a drip system that may cause excess evaporation. I think with less water movement you have less possibility for excess moisture to be lost to the surroundings.


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## ScareCrow (20 Aug 2021)

mort said:


> I think it's easier to keep excess moisture levels down with a separate system because you can basically keep the substrate dryer. Terrestrial plants don't need constantly wet roots and keeping them moist is reasonably easy without a drip system that may cause excess evaporation. I think with less water movement you have less possibility for excess moisture to be lost to the surroundings.


Makes sense.
I was planning on pumping water over the plant roots for a minute or two and then stop. Then repeat the process every day to begin with and see how things looked. I saw the technique years ago when looking at hydroponic systems. I don't remember the name of that type of system but it seemed to work quite well .


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## shangman (20 Aug 2021)

Maybe this video would be useful? I've had it saved on youtube forever because I want to try a few variations like this one day! Personally I would connect it to the aquarium so there was always a place for the water to colelct (otherwise need a trough or something), but with a separate filter/pump that turns on several times a day for short periods, so the wall isn't too wet. I'm sure there is a journal or two of someone doing this on UKAPS, I will see if I can find them.


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## ScareCrow (20 Aug 2021)

Thanks @shangman I have seen that video and as you say I think using aquarium as the reservoir is the best idea and has a few benefits. Also agree with using a pump to irrigate the hanging wall a few times a day or as needed, rather than having it as the main pump which would also be filtering the tank.
My main concern is the moisture/damp issue. I want to move and have renovated my house so don't really want to redecorate.


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## foxfish (20 Aug 2021)

If you only run the dedicated pump a couple of times a day and use a free draining media than there will be very little humidity. 
I don’t know how the bacterial element will work if the water is not permanently flowing (dripping) but anyway these living walls really depend of a high humidity environment to flourish … that is how it is designed to work!

So if you wish to change things around a bit you may have to change the plants or carefully select ones that might be more suited to a lower humidity.


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## shangman (21 Aug 2021)

ScareCrow said:


> Thanks @shangman I have seen that video and as you say I think using aquarium as the reservoir is the best idea and has a few benefits. Also agree with using a pump to irrigate the hanging wall a few times a day or as needed, rather than having it as the main pump which would also be filtering the tank.
> My main concern is the moisture/damp issue. I want to move and have renovated my house so don't really want to redecorate.


Aha, found that link I was looking for!








						DOOA Terra DIY by Rfck
					

Hi guys  I would like to show you my New layout. This is DIY construction inspired by ADA DOOA TERRA.   Work in progress, i wait for more plants. and I need to work with details yet.  I'll be happy for any comments.



					www.ukaps.org
				




I wouldn't worry too much about damp, as long as you did it correctly the water should stay in it's wall-box. I personally wouldn't attach it flat to the wall, rather to have a cm - inch gap just in case though.


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## zozo (21 Aug 2021)

Something you definitively need to consider is the water-retaining property of the growing media you are going to use.  Since such a wall with pots has quite a media volume that needs to be saturated with water, this requires a certain amount of water volume. There will be certain water saturation and retention followed by a drain. Pumping the water in will obviously empty the tank, the media slowly saturates and then starts to drain back into the tank. Then you need to top off the tank again to its desired water level. Thus there will be an amount of water in the tank and in the wall.

Then calculate the needed volume the wall retains and the volume it drains again when the pump stops and make sure that the tank will not flood with water coming from the drainage. Some growing media retain more water than others and also drain slower and longer.

For example, fill a sponge with water, stop the water flow into the sponge then gravity takes over and see how long it takes before the sponge stops releasing water. Then multiply this x 49 sponges as the number of pots the wall in the picture holds.

Also if you would do the suggested watering in intervals with a timer. You still drain the tank to fill the pots that slowly runs back again. In this cycle, you will have a constantly changing water level in the tank.

Could be a very natural looking feature draining flooding again with water raining back. But you would need quite a large tank for a large planted wall to make this change in water level less drastic. Thus for small volume setups, I don't think this would be very practical.

Another issue could be when the water is constantly fertilized you will get quite some salts (crystals) to build up in the planted media... At some point, it gets too much and will burn the plants. Thus for an aesthetical showpiece, it won't be a very long term success if the media isn't flushed and cleaned from salts buildup regularly. Then you would need to flush it now and then with non fertilized water, and this actually will flush out rather mineral richer water again draining to the tank. Thus quite some parameter differences and EC/PH swings in water contents. No idea how feasible this will be if sensitive livestock is in play?

In aquaponic setups that are used for growing herbs and other edibles, they will be harvested at one point and start fresh with new materials. They don't have to think about it if old growing media isn't reused.

I guess considering maintenance issues a much better approach would be to separate it. Build a sump behind the aquarium with a planted wall. 
Then also the water level issues will reside in the sump and not in the aquarium.

Something like this.


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## mort (21 Aug 2021)

shangman said:


> Aha, found that link I was looking for!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's the tank I was trying to remember the other day. I remember it being nice but not quite that impressive.

I don't think the moisture issues we are thinking about, at least not in my case, are related to water splash but more the moving water and transpiration causing humidity in the air. Perhaps it's not much different to an open top tank with lots of surface agitation but a plant wall has a very large surface area, so can potentially move a lot of water.


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## mort (21 Aug 2021)

This is another tank I was thinking of. You might find more details about it if you do some digging but essentially it looks like he ran the aerial plants on just one minutes water a day though an airline into some hidden guttering.









						Your tanks: Steven Baker
					

Your tanks: Steven Baker




					www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk
				












						Video: Steven Baker’s amazing ‘wall of life’ aquarium
					






					www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk


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## dw1305 (21 Aug 2021)

Hi all, 


ScareCrow said:


> I don't remember the name of that type of system but it seemed to work quite well .


"Fill and drain" (or "Ebb and flood"), it is very effective because it keeps the root zone oxygenated (for relatively little effort).

cheers Darrel


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## tam (21 Aug 2021)

Just to throw it out there, but have you considered not tying the two together at all. If you goal is just to have a planted wall behind, you could have pots hung on the wall, with plants in and just water them once a week when you do your water change and probably achieve the same thing without any of the complications of circulating systems and water retention. There are a big range on wall planters e.g.: Amazon product

It part depends on what plants you hand in mind too - there is quite a big range that don't need a constant boggy situation and could have a simple (cheap or DIY) hanger.

Either way, I'd be wary about the amount of evaporation you get out of felt and would tend to lean towards the plastic options e.g. Amazon product  Whether if you did want auto watering you could connect those up with airline (or similar tubing) to direct the waterflow more accurate rather than rely on dripping and then use a small pump to circulate it up.


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## Djoko Sauza (21 Aug 2021)

I like this idea. And it is definitely feasible. As you mentioned before, using an inorganic soil is a must, I would personally use lava split (gravel but from lava rock). It doesn't hold much water but that's fine since you can turn the pump on as many times as you need in a day. With this type of soil drenching it with loads of water every time will work better than a sort of drip method.

In regards to salt accumulation, dosing less ferts is obviously better. In this scenario, the less water the soil retains the better, since then you can flush it many times a day. Another option is to fill your tank when doing a water change (with RO or soft water ideally) through the top of the plant pots contraption.

Are your pots going to be removable?
Do you get natural light above your tank?


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## ScareCrow (21 Aug 2021)

shangman said:


> Aha, found that link I was looking for!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I've not seen this before and it's pretty much the same construction I had in mind.
As @mort says, my main concern is evaporation/transpiration causing damp in the room. I also have crested geckos so with them and the fish tank, the humidity is already quite high.


zozo said:


> Something you definitively need to consider is the water-retaining property of the growing media you are going to use.  Since such a wall with pots has quite a media volume that needs to be saturated with water, this requires a certain amount of water volume. There will be certain water saturation and retention followed by a drain. Pumping the water in will obviously empty the tank, the media slowly saturates and then starts to drain back into the tank. Then you need to top off the tank again to its desired water level. Thus there will be an amount of water in the tank and in the wall.
> 
> Then calculate the needed volume the wall retains and the volume it drains again when the pump stops and make sure that the tank will not flood with water coming from the drainage. Some growing media retain more water than others and also drain slower and longer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this zozo. Unfortunately I don't have room for a sump behind the tank. I could create a partition in the back of the tank. I'd like to try and keep it as one system if I can though. I don't mind the water level in the tank fluctuating but thanks for raising it as I'll plant the tank with it in mind.


mort said:


> This is another tank I was thinking of. You might find more details about it if you do some digging but essentially it looks like he ran the aerial plants on just one minutes water a day though an airline into some hidden guttering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was this tank that made me want to extend things vertically. 
Eventually I'd like to do something like this but will have to settle for something on a smaller scale for now.


dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> "Fill and drain" (or "Ebb and flood"), it is very effective because it keeps the root zone oxygenated (for relatively little effort).
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks Darrell that's it.


tam said:


> Just to throw it out there, but have you considered not tying the two together at all. If you goal is just to have a planted wall behind, you could have pots hung on the wall, with plants in and just water them once a week when you do your water change and probably achieve the same thing without any of the complications of circulating systems and water retention. There are a big range on wall planters e.g.: Amazon product
> 
> It part depends on what plants you hand in mind too - there is quite a big range that don't need a constant boggy situation and could have a simple (cheap or DIY) hanger.
> 
> Either way, I'd be wary about the amount of evaporation you get out of felt and would tend to lean towards the plastic options e.g. Amazon product  Whether if you did want auto watering you could connect those up with airline (or similar tubing) to direct the waterflow more accurate rather than rely on dripping and then use a small pump to circulate it up.



This is what I'm leaning towards. Although the fleece planter might retain some moisture and allow the plants to root into it, I think it'll also cause a lot of evaporation.
Also using individual pots I can position them where I want. 
Drip irrigation kits seem to have dropped in price significantly since the last time I looked. So I'm thinking of hanging pots in a box that will channel water back into the tank. In the pots I'm thinking of using cat litter as it's light weight. Then irrigate the pots using the drip irrigation system based on an ebb and flood cycle.


Diogo Sousa said:


> I like this idea. And it is definitely feasible. As you mentioned before, using an inorganic soil is a must, I would personally use lava split (gravel but from lava rock). It doesn't hold much water but that's fine since you can turn the pump on as many times as you need in a day. With this type of soil drenching it with loads of water every time will work better than a sort of drip method.
> 
> In regards to salt accumulation, dosing less ferts is obviously better. In this scenario, the less water the soil retains the better, since then you can flush it many times a day. Another option is to fill your tank when doing a water change (with RO or soft water ideally) through the top of the plant pots contraption.
> 
> ...


I'm not planning on making the pots removable but I am going to add a light above the wall.


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## ScareCrow (16 Sep 2021)

I think I've talked myself out of this for now. It will definitely happen in the future but as I want to move, my house is quite small, having a huge planted wall might be a bit imposing not to mention the hassle it would add to moving.

I've done more thinking on the subject and I think I'll go the vertical hydroponic setup when I do go for it. I'm imagining multiple vertical pipes next to each other, with openings for plants recessed in. There are loads of examples of this working for food production online. My thinking is this will limit evaporation, salt build up and maintain aeration over the roots. Also I can use the tank as the reservoir. The only downside I can think of is noise. It'll create quite a lot of splashing, so might need to go for a stepped approach rather than vertical. This would result in some water storage so would need to factor that in if using the tank as the reservoir but it shouldn't be huge.

Anyway, it will happen one day and I'll report back when it does.


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## DeepMetropolis (16 Sep 2021)

Maybe you could fill up the pipes with crushed lavarock it would brake the splashing and is not to heavy


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## ScareCrow (16 Sep 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Maybe you could fill up the pipes with crushed lavarock it would brake the splashing and is not to heavy


Good idea, would work like a trickle tower then. Filter sponge might also work. I guess there is a risk of it clogging over time, so would need some sort of prefilter.


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## not called Bob (24 Sep 2021)

I think I have seen something like this on @ikeacabinetgreenhouse on insta, there might be some of the frog etc keepers builds that have done something along these lines, personally id have it contained to avoid the damp issues that could arises


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## not called Bob (24 Sep 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Maybe you could fill up the pipes with crushed lavarock it would brake the splashing and is not to heavy


that or the ceramic media shower filters use,


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## heliophyte (28 Jan 2022)

How's it going with this idea? I found this product the other day that is basically what you drew VERSA GARDEN - Aquael


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## ScareCrow (28 Jan 2022)

heliophyte said:


> How's it going with this idea? I found this product the other day that is basically what you drew VERSA GARDEN - Aquael


Thanks for sharing, that looks like a brilliant solution. I really like the light mount, very clean.

I didn't get off the ground with it in the end. I was worried about evaporation as it's already quite bad. When I have room for a larger tank I will go for something that I can partially enclose the above aquarium section, so I can maintain higher humidity for the plants but also contain some of the humidity.


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