# Flourish Excel. . . . . Help



## lil-lynx (6 Jan 2011)

Hello right, I have just bought a 500ml bottle of excel (Â£12.00). I was just wondering as the dosing instructions are not vary clear. I hear you also double does to remove algae, is this correct as I have loads of the stuff  . 
My tank is 96 litres (Say 100 round it up   ). 
At the moment it has a 25w t8 over it, but it normally has 78w of T5HO tubes and a t8 25w . But that was a bit much as we can see from the algae. What i need to know is how much shall i does ( double dose to get rid of the algae ). But when the algae goes shall i continue to double does ? 
Also people divide it by 7 to does daily, if there and pros and cons to this.

Thanks


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## nry (6 Jan 2011)

I think it's 1ml per 50 litres daily if memory serves, so double would be 2ml daily for 50 litres, 4ml daily for 100 litres.

It doesn't affect all algae, just some, any specific you want to target?


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## lil-lynx (6 Jan 2011)

Its a type of thread algae.


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## nry (6 Jan 2011)

Worth a go then, the dosage should be on the back of the bottle though?


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## lil-lynx (6 Jan 2011)

It says 

On initial use or after a major (>40%) water change, use 1 capful (5ml) for every 40L (10gallons). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200L (50 gallons) daily or every other day. Dosing may be slowly increased in high-groth aquariums. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1ML. 

This is word for word what is on the back. There are no threads on the lid, its like a medicine bottle (Push down and then twist).
My tank is no where near 200L. Shall I just add one capful daily because I want to double dose to kill the algae, which means i will be doesing enough for a 200L tank ? ( my tanks around 100litres). Also shall i carry on once the algae has gone. 
The only thing that concerns me is it says in capital letter DO NOT OVERDOES. 

Any help people.


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## nry (6 Jan 2011)

They always say that 

What I said above was almost bang on, you'd be fine with 5ml daily I'd guess, though if you have any vallis in the tank it'll probably melt when using liquid carbon.


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## lil-lynx (6 Jan 2011)

Hmmmm i have some Vallis, why is that could you explain ?. 
Also safe to double does after the algae has gone, in conjunction with pressurised co2 ?


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## nry (6 Jan 2011)

Not entirely sure, all I know is Excel and equivalents don't mix well with vallis and a few other plants - it seems to be the 100% aquatic plants that suffer.  A few threads on here about it, it seems the double-dosing is more likely to show problems, but I know it kills mine when I have used Excel.


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## lil-lynx (6 Jan 2011)

What all aquatic plants :O . . . . o dear


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## nry (6 Jan 2011)

Not all nope, a few though.  Have a quick Google.


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## foxfish (6 Jan 2011)

There are only a few totally aquatics plants anyway!

If it helps I have been dosing 10ml a day in my 150l tank for about two months.
Not because I had an algae problems but, because I was given some for Christmas last year (2009) & thought I better try it out.
My tank looks nice & healthy & very green, pretty much algae free apart from some tiny spots on the static decor.
I cant say my shrimps or fish showed any sign of distress & the plants seem to have enjoyed the dosage.


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## ceg4048 (7 Jan 2011)

nry said:
			
		

> ...Excel and equivalents don't mix well with vallis and a few other plants - it seems to be the 100% aquatic plants that suffer...


This is not really true. Of the 300-400 Aquatic Macrophytes found in the hobby, only a few of them have been reported to respond poorly to liquid carbon products. A majority of those that _reportedly_ respond poorly are those that appear to be in the non-vascular category such as liverworts (like Pelia and Riccia) and bladderworts (Utricularia).  However, this could be just a coincidence as Vallis do have vascular tissues.

Even so, there are mixed reports of keeping these categories while dosing  liquid carbon. Even certain species of Vallis has been reportedly kept with liquid carbon, so experience varies. Again, the dosages appear to play a significant role. 

Robust stems, crypts and swords, as well as the majority of carpet plants on the other hand (which are definitely aquatic) respond well to normal or even grossly exaggerated dosages. Therefore there is very little correlation between the toxicity of liquid carbon and the plants aquatic taxonomy.

Cheers,


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## nry (7 Jan 2011)

By 100% aquatic I mean that they have no out-of-water growth and would die.  Do the liver/bladderworts not grow 100% under water?


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## ceg4048 (7 Jan 2011)

Well, 100% aquatic doesn't mean anything either. At some point, just about all aquatic plants reach the surface either by growing or by water loss due to dry season. The plants are not classified by how much time they spend under the surface. Water lilies for example are always in water but their leaves reach the surface. Reaching the surface by one means or another is imperative for flowering, pollination and seed propagation (if the plant is an angiosperm i.i. if they method of propagation relies on flowering).

Bladderworts grow at least partially out of water and they feed by trapping tiny insects in specialized appendages similar to the venus flytrap. Pelia definitely grow emmersed. In fact, when you buy any of these plants they are always shipped to you in the emmersed form. So no, they don't die unilaterally just because they are out of water. It depends on how the transition is made from one media to the other. In their natural systems, evaporation due to change of seasons allows a slow transition for new emmersed growth to appear. At the end of the season the opposite occurs. The rains return and slowly raise the water level allowing time for submerged growth to form. Other plants get inundated from flash flooding but they are adapted to that type of transition. Also remember that the humidity  and rainfall in those systems are very high which helps the plants.

We on the other hand are impatient and we live in climates of low-to-moderate humidity. So we just grab a plant, stick it somewhere and are disappointed when the plants wither. So we assume, based on this experience, that the plant must spend 100% of the time submerged in order to survive.

Cheers,


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## foxfish (7 Jan 2011)

However there are a few plants that are generally referred to as fully aquatic (at least on this type of forum) - for example -  Tropica grow virtually all their plants in an immersed state but, vallis is grown submersed?


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## dw1305 (7 Jan 2011)

Hi all,


> However there are a few plants that are generally referred to as fully aquatic (at least on this type of forum) - for example - Tropica grow virtually all their plants in an immersed state but, vallis is grown submersed?


 I'm not sure about the reason for the differential toxic effects of glutaraldehyde, but _Vallis_ is an entirely submerged macrophyte, rather than being an emergent etc. like most other aquarium plants. Even the flowers only briefly break surface in a fairly unusual manner.  





> "The female flower rises to the surface of the water attached to the submersed mother plant with a long flexible peduncle and blooms only at the surface positioning itself just at surface in a manner that keeps the pistil and stigma dry. The male flowers detaches itself from the spathe at the base of the submersed father plant; rises to the surface and blooms forming a raft-like structure which keeps the stamen and the pollen dry. Wind and currents carry the male flower to the female and the pollen is delivered onto the pistil. The fertilized female flower closes and the long flexible peduncle that attaches it to its mother starts to spiral like a coiled spring drawing it into a submersed position where the ensuing fruit matures. "


cheers Darrel


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## warrenater (4 Nov 2017)

oops old thread please ignore


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