# Ai prime HD freshwater settings?



## 2born4 (29 Oct 2019)

Looking for some reassurance on spectrum and lighting schedules for the Ai prime leds. Anyone else using one of these...?

I can find loads of spectrum and schedules for the marine version but none for the freshwater other than the one preset on the Ai website which uses very little red... any reason for this? 

Thanks in advance


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## alto (29 Oct 2019)

AI isn’t much interested in FW applications despite finally giving in and releasing distinct “Freshwater” versions of their Prime and (more recently) Prime HD lights

Filipe Oliveira has used the AI Primes and HD Primes in various Aquaflora and display tanks, so looking through his video collection you’ll find some stunning planted tanks “powered by AI”  - there is some commentary on light use in the video details, also questions (that he has answered) in Comments 

I believe Sacha Hoyer has also used AI Primes for various scapes, including at his new Scapers Lounge shop 

I’ve not used these as the only local shop with an AI Prime planted display tank didn’t convince me to invest (I went Kessil instead), the new HD version is reputed to have an improved spectrum and better PAR and light distribution (but again AI is not willing to invest in their own advertising for this lamp  )


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## SRP3006 (29 Oct 2019)

alto said:


> I’ve not used these as the only local shop with an AI Prime planted display tank didn’t convince me to invest (I went Kessil instead), the new HD version is reputed to have an improved spectrum and better PAR and light distribution (but again AI is not willing to invest in their own advertising for this lamp  )



I too have been looking at upgrading to these lights, and can't decide between kessil and prime hd. 

Alto, what made you choose Kessil over AI prime? Also what have you heard about the newer versions, like you say there doesn't seem to be much info at all. 

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## 2born4 (6 Nov 2019)

I already have the AI Prime HD... 

For the money I’m happy enough...
I wanted a light that would suit a nano tank that was available in both marine and freshwater variants. 

It was a toss up between the prime HD and the kessil A80s for me and the controllability out of the box won it for me. The kessils would have taken an additional wifi controller and still wouldn’t have had the spectrum control  on the primes. The primes are also a fair bit more powerful which is handy to have especially on the marine side. 

The app takes some getting used and setup is definitely easier on the computer. 

I also think they could have done a better job with the diffuser but it’s not a major flaw. 

The biggest problem is finding anyone else running a freshwater for comparison! 

I live how easier it is to swapping and compare spectrums and schedules but everything is for the marine variant. 


Nobody out there?


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## jaypeecee (7 Nov 2019)

Hi Folks,

Why does this company choose LEDs that only make sense to themselves? Colours like 'Photo Red'. What does that mean? And the same goes for the non-specific 'Blue' and 'Green'. The blue spectrum extends from 400 nanometres (nm) to 490nm. Green is from 490nm - 560nm. Yellow/orange is from 560nm - 610nm. And red is from 610nm - 700nm. All figures give or take a few nanometres. There is no reason why companies should not be specific about the wavelengths of the LEDs that they use. In order to get the most efficient transfer of light energy by plants, it makes sense to me to match the absorption spectrum of plants by the appropriate choice of LEDs. Or, am I missing something? Please see the attached.

JPC


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## ian_m (8 Nov 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> There is no reason why companies should not be specific about the wavelengths of the LEDs that they use. In order to get the most efficient transfer of light energy by plants, it makes sense to me to match the absorption spectrum of plants by the appropriate choice of LEDs. Or, am I missing something?


You are missing something. Yes people can and do design LED systems that feed option PAR/spectrum to plants, see what the hydroponic "bods" are doing with LEDs and lumens to grams plant matter efficiency. Issue is using these PAR/spectrum values, the plants look crap, usually dark pink'ish implying all the light the plants are fed is being absorbed. No point having green in the spectrum and just reflected and absorbed by plants. If you want dark pink looking plants, without any hint of them being green this is the way to go.

So the aquatic light manufacturers "tune" the lights to make the plants look good to your eyes which is not necessarily optimal efficiency for growing plants.


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## jaypeecee (8 Nov 2019)

ian_m said:


> You are missing something. Yes people can and do design LED systems that feed option PAR/spectrum to plants, see what the hydroponic "bods" are doing with LEDs and lumens to grams plant matter efficiency. Issue is using these PAR/spectrum values, the plants look crap, usually dark pink'ish implying all the light the plants are fed is being absorbed. No point having green in the spectrum and just reflected and absorbed by plants. If you want dark pink looking plants, without any hint of them being green this is the way to go.
> 
> So the aquatic light manufacturers "tune" the lights to make the plants look good to your eyes which is not necessarily optimal efficiency for growing plants.



A bit of misunderstanding, me thinks. First of all, we're not talking about hydroponics or horticulture. In those business areas, they do indeed tailor light spectrum according to the needs of plants. They are not concerned about aesthetics. And, of course, you are correct in saying that, if the (chlorophyll) absorption spectrum were the only consideration, the lighting would be a wonderful shade of pink. Lovely! But all that's necessary, in the first instance, is to add white LEDs to the mix. Then, add in some green LEDs to bring out the colour of the plants. In fact, it now appears that plants do absorb a proportion of green light - it is not all reflected.

In summary, I was looking at aquarium lighting from the perspective of a plant. In an aquarium light that I designed a few years ago, I used 33% blue, 33% green, 33% red and 1% infrared. The resultant colour temperature is 6800K and plants look great. It was built by the same company that Dennis Wong used. Ironically, that company (BML) was taken over by Osram and they only supply the horticultural market.

JPC


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## 2born4 (8 Nov 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> A bit of misunderstanding, me thinks. First of all, we're not talking about hydroponics or horticulture. In those business areas, they do indeed tailor light spectrum according to the needs of plants. They are not concerned about aesthetics. And, of course, you are correct in saying that, if the (chlorophyll) absorption spectrum were the only consideration, the lighting would be a wonderful shade of pink. Lovely! But all that's necessary, in the first instance, is to add white LEDs to the mix. Then, add in some green LEDs to bring out the colour of the plants. In fact, it now appears that plants do absorb a proportion of green light - it is not all reflected.
> 
> In summary, I was looking at aquarium lighting from the perspective of a plant. In an aquarium light that I designed a few years ago, I used 33% blue, 33% green, 33% red and 1% infrared. The resultant colour temperature is 6800K and plants look great. It was built by the same company that Dennis Wong used. Ironically, that company (BML) was taken over by Osram and they only supply the horticultural market.
> 
> JPC



Thanks for your reply....I think you’ve  re-assured my thoughts...

I thought it was strange that they not include any red spectrum in the only preset AI provide for the freshwater light... But I think now it’s just down to aesthetics and personal preference.

The coloured led chips seem to play with the colour of the light more, with the warm and cool leds are putting out most of the light in the useable spectrum. 

I wondered if it was down to certain wavelengths that were more associated to algae growth... I remember a post (maybe not on here) where someone had posted the same (if not similar) diagram as above and had also omitted a certain colour from their lighting, but I couldn’t find the post anywhere! 

Cheers 


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## jaypeecee (10 Nov 2019)

2born4 said:


> Thanks for your reply....I think you’ve  re-assured my thoughts...
> 
> I thought it was strange that they not include any red spectrum in the only preset AI provide for the freshwater light... But I think now it’s just down to aesthetics and personal preference.
> 
> ...



Hi @2born4

The RGB LEDs combine red, green and blue into one package and are thus very versatile. But, I like being able to select single wavelength light sources (white LEDs excluded). That way, you have more control over the resulting overall spectrum. White LEDs emit only a small proportion of red light.

It is true that certain wavelengths are absorbed by BGA (cyanobacteria). These correspond to the phycoerythrin and phycocyanin spectra shown in the previously attached image. As I understand it, cyanobacteria contain only chlorophyll a. That's the extent of my knowledge. It should be possible to create a spectrum that is devoid of the wavelengths used by cyanobacteria. The resultant lighting should be a bluish pink. But how the plants would fare with such lighting, I don't know.

For completeness, I measured the spectrum of the light fixture that I mentioned in post #7 above. I have attached it below.

JPC


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## 2born4 (11 Nov 2019)

Cheers for your help! 


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## jaypeecee (12 Nov 2019)

2born4 said:


> Cheers for your help!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Hi @2born4 

You are very welcome.

JPC


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