# Sam's nano journal



## Themuleous (18 Dec 2007)

Just thought I would start a journal for my nano.  I've used the rocks Dave had at the gathering to create the scape, sorry dont have pics at the mo but will get some up this evening.

The real reason for the journal is that Im growing HC emersed, to get a nice carpet before I flood the tank with water and to see if it really is as easy as Tom Barr says!

Quick list of the spec.

Tank - 24x8x8"
Substrate - Tropica plant substrate under unipac black quarts gravel
Lighting - 2x24 T5 - 1x Arcadia plantpro, 1x Giesemann midday, for 8hrs
Water - there is about 1.5cm of water in the tank kept just below the top of the substrate.  This is straight tap (has lots P and N in it) with added P, N, K and a lot of TPN.  This is also the solution I spray onto the plants.
Maintenance - The top of the tank is covered in cling film to help stop the plants drying out and I give the whole tank a good spray with a mister once a day with the fert laden water when I get home from work. I also blow into the tank to replenish the CO2.  I might at some stage try adding CO2 via my pressurised system to see it it makes a difference to growth. ADA AS seems to be the substrate of choice for growing plants emersed and I have heard of people soaking zeolite in normal plant fertiliser to get lots of NH3 into the substrate.  We will see how well my substrate does, I'm hoping spraying it regularly will make up for the initial lack of nutrients in the gravel until the plants reach the tropcia plant substrate.

The tank has been running for 4 days now and the plants seem to be doing OK, no obvious signs of change, but it is early days.

Pics later, any comments/suggestions greatly received 

Sam


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## daniel19831123 (18 Dec 2007)

Might sound stupid when I say this but from a medical point of view there is no need to blow the CO2 into the tank unless you are a chronic smoker for the last 60 years and smoke 50 a day who had COPD and retain lots and lots of CO2.... The CO2 in the breath you make is minimal and doesn't make much of a difference in comparison to that of the atmosphere.


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## Themuleous (18 Dec 2007)

You do have a point, my only reason for doing it is that the tank is covered within cling film to stop the plants drying out and I got to thinking that over time the CO2 levels in the air will get reduced and you're breath is 4% CO2 when you breath out compared to 0.04% in the air.  I guess it cant hurt if it does no good 

I should have added that the tank was covered, will edit the original post.

Sam

EDIT - I know HC is rather boring for emersed growth - its been done many times, but I had hoped to use UG, but the shop forgot to add it to the order from Tropica.  Hopefully I'll be getting some in the new year


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## daniel19831123 (18 Dec 2007)

Just wondering if you are circulating the water and if you do how are you doing it because the water column is only 1.5cm tall. Is it possible to have no water column in the tank when you are doing this. I was thinking of setting up a similar tank but instead of having a column of water not circulating, I was going to go for soaking damp top soil in a nano tank with 11w on top of it. 

And wouldn't be 48w light a little too much for a tank that size. I'm just worried that without CO2 injection in the water, the algae might get a hold on the plant before they can grow out of the water and obtained co2 from the air.


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## Themuleous (18 Dec 2007)

That's the beauty of this method, as the water level is kept below the level of the substrate algae cant be an issue as any water based algae isn't going to get any light to grow as its below the substrate   The plants are also out of the water, IE on top of the substrate so algae cant grow on them either.  The pics I post later should help you see what I've done.

I dont circulate the water, dont think there is any need too.

48w is a lot, but its what I used previously.  When the tank is full of water this much light just means I have to be very careful about doing my water changes.  Tom says he's used this method with full sunlight, doesn't get much more intense than that! 

Sam


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## daniel19831123 (18 Dec 2007)

sorry my bad. misread the message. Would love to see some picture of it.


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## Themuleous (18 Dec 2007)

Some pics as promised 














Comments welcome 

Sam


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2007)

those rocks are going to end up invisible surely?


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## Themuleous (19 Dec 2007)

Quite possible, certainly the smaller one, but we'll see, if they do I can always just lift them up and put the on top of the HC 

Sam


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## Dave Spencer (19 Dec 2007)

Sam,

I have just fished a load of HC out of my Iwagumi(?). Do you want some?

Dave.


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## Themuleous (19 Dec 2007)

Dave, very definitely I do.  As you can see its a bit sparse.  Some more would be great.

I'll PM you my address

Sam


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## Themuleous (22 Dec 2007)

Quick update after one week.  You can see a very slight growth in the HC, it with have needed a bit of time to adjust and grow roots, so Im not worried yet.  I spay the tank one or two times a day and siphon out any excess water to keep the level below the substrate.  The gravel seems to be staying damp at least so that's good.  Dave Spencer very kindly gave me some more HC so I've filled in the gaps.  Anyhoo, nothing much else to say 













Sam


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## Themuleous (4 Jan 2008)

Update pics as of 31st Dec, 2 weeks in.

Growth is not as good as I had hoped and the older leaves are dieing off which I wasn't expecting thinking a lack of N so have ordered some NH3 so use in the water I spray on it, but tis still early days.

Full tank from top





Right side





Left side





Sam


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## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2008)

That's surprising Sam, I was expecting more growth too.  Maybe it is the ferts, although is it somewhere warm as it's got no heater???


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## daniel19831123 (4 Jan 2008)

I'm trying my little HC emersed pot as well. but I'm going with top soil and it's growing really well





So far no fertiliser or CO2 involve in it. Hopefully it will grow a  full pot of it before I propagate it to my tank.


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## Themuleous (5 Jan 2008)

Yeh its in a warm room.  

Dan - thanks for the pic, how long have you been growing it emersed?


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## daniel19831123 (5 Jan 2008)

about 2 weeks. They never get to stay in my substrate if I plant them single stranded. So whatever that come of floating around get planted onto the little tub.


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## Themuleous (15 Jan 2008)

Just thought I would log the fact that the emersged growth wasn't happening, I reckon because of the inert gravel not being able to supply enough nutrients. I'm going to try it again at some stage using bonsai gravel which is supposed to be very good and cheap 

So as of tonight I've flooded the tank and will be running it EI to see if I can actually finish the scape as I like the rock placement and its worth a try for a few weeks as I'll not be able to re-scape it for a few weeks anyway due to a lack of funds (two new cats for the misses xmas present )

Will keep you posted on how it goes. I've not actually changed the fact the the gravel is inert so we'll see if a decent water column fert regime keeps the HC happy. I know people who've grow HC in sand so it is possible 

Sam


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## Garuf (18 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Lets have an update Sam, I can't wait to see it all now its fully grown in.


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## fishgeek (19 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

seeing as there are no fish in there just use some baby bio or similar terristrial fertiliser to enrich your substrate

andrew


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## Garuf (19 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

I don't think that's such a clever idea, if he changes his mind about having water in it there could be residual toxins that could spell doom for any fish he adds.


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## YzemaN (19 Apr 2008)

*Re:*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Growth is not as good as I had hoped and the older leaves are dieing off which I wasn't expecting thinking a lack of N so have ordered some NH3 so use in the water I spray on it, but tis still early days.



I'm currently growing HC emersed using a mix of old and new gravel. The first couple of weeks the HC was growing happily and then I added TPN+ to the water I was spraying. After a couple of days some of the HC appeared burned and stopped spreading. I went back to spraying just pure London tap water (best in the world) and the HC seems happier and has started sending out runners again. Could it be sensitive to too mush ferts?


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## Garuf (19 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

I'd  guess so, it sounds that way, id suggest adding it diluted rather than neat, plants are much more sensitive than we are.


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## Themuleous (19 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Well I'm hoping to do a proper update in around a week, there are just a few bits of the HC that need to fill in, like the corners and its taking ages, but want to wait and get it right.  I've made a light box specifically for the tank and the final shots I will be borrowing a friends DSLR.  Hopefully I'll be able to do it justice.

FYI I filled the tank with water a long while ago and now have 11 green neon tetras and around 40 cherry shrimp.  Might not even need the tetras for the final photos, just let the shrimp be the livestock.  Will see.

Update soon I promise!

Sam


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## Luketendo (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Well I'm hoping to do a proper update in around a week, there are just a few bits of the HC that need to fill in, like the corners and its taking ages, but want to wait and get it right.  I've made a light box specifically for the tank and the final shots I will be borrowing a friends DSLR.  Hopefully I'll be able to do it justice.
> 
> FYI I filled the tank with water a long while ago and now have 11 green neon tetras and around 40 cherry shrimp.  Might not even need the tetras for the final photos, just let the shrimp be the livestock.  Will see.
> 
> ...



Update please! I want to see this setup as it's pretty similar to what I want (livestock wise).


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## Themuleous (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Haha I will, I will!! Just want to wait until its perfect


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## Themuleous (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

As I said on TFF, the trouble is Ive hyped this one up to much!!  I just hope the scape lives up to expectations!!

Sam


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## Luketendo (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> As I said on TFF, the trouble is Ive hyped this one up to much!!  I just hope the scape lives up to expectations!!
> 
> Sam



I want to see the fish .

(And the scape too, just I want to see Green Neons in a planted tank because I'm not sure whether to get them or not.)

By the way how many of them do you have in there? Oops, you have 11.

Do you have ottos?


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## Arana (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Luke have a look at my 120cm journal there's some green neons in there... get some if you can i have 25 now and they are great in a planted tank

http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1039&start=50


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## Luketendo (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*



			
				Arana said:
			
		

> Luke have a look at my 120cm journal there's some green neons in there... get some if you can i have 25 now and they are great in a planted tank
> 
> http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1039&start=50



I can't get them just yet the tank still needs repairing! Which will happen tomorrow.
Also what water stats have you got?


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## Arana (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*



			
				Luketendo said:
			
		

> Also what water stats have you got?



Not sure i'm afraid as i don't test for anything, i can say the tempreture ranges between 24 and 26 degrees and i cram in as much Co2 and ferts as i can  and all the fish seem very happy


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## Luketendo (26 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*



			
				Arana said:
			
		

> Luketendo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent hopefully when I get them they'll be fine.

(Sorry Sam for the off-topic stuff.)


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## Themuleous (28 Apr 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*


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## Themuleous (23 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Right, first off.  Big apology for not being very active recently, life's been stressful and Ive just not had the time.  Hopefully that will change now (until my hols in July )

Anyway, I finally got around to taking some 'final' shops of my nano now that I sorted out the long running issue it had with growing plants.  I turns out that it IS possible to have to much light.  Basically, running 2x24w T5's is just to much for HC to cope with so it just grows really slowly, perhaps its a built in fail safe, who knows.  Either way, once I dropped the light down to 1x24w T5 (the Arcadia Plantpro) the HC went ballistic and its been plain sailing ever since.  No algae so the EI must be working!  First time ever!  I'll be stripping it down to rescape as the HC is rapidly dieing at the base so it needs it, gives me a chance to try something new   Got the next scape planned 

Current stocking is 11xgreen neon, 2xotto, numerous and breeding cheery shrimp and 4 nerite snails (the work horse of my algae eating crew).

Here are the pics 

Sam


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## Dan Crawford (23 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Fantastic Dam, i'm glad to see it's all worth the effort. It looks great, you should be well chuffed with that!


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## LondonDragon (23 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Not my style of tank but that HC looks great  I like the end results, peculiar anout the reduction on lighting to 1x24w! I have 4x24w on my tank and my HC never took off either just remained the sale size all the time. Very little growth but no algae and not dead! Could be that then


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## Themuleous (23 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Thanks guys  I am pleased with it, unfortunately my photo skills do do it justice, it looks much better in real life (honest! )

It could use some more height from the 'hills' but other than that I quite pleased with the result 

Sam


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## Dave Spencer (24 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Good stuff Sam. Is the tank from the UKAPS meeting at yours?

HC is a great plant! With a decent pair of curved scissors, you could keep this scape for as long as you want.

Dave.


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## Themuleous (24 Jun 2008)

*Re: Sam's Nano Emersed HC journal*

Thanks Dave 

Yeh one and the same, I really like the small size of the tank as it doesn't cost a fortune to redo regularly!

This is gonna sound daft, but give HC plenty of everything any its an easy plant to grow.  The trick I guess is working out what it needs! 

I have given it a good haircut several times, but I left it to long the first time and it was already to thick to prevent the bottom dieing out.  Oh well, as I say, an excuse for redoing it! 

Sam


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## Themuleous (21 Oct 2008)

Well its been a while since I updated this journal, so thought I would.  Not really much to say other than Ive changed the scape, still simple but more height from the substrate.  Still 100% HC.  The HC took a while to get going after the rescape but once it did it didn't take long to cover the tank.  Its had one good trim to tidy it up.  Ferts, etc as before.

The 'bits' floating int he water are bubbles from the HC, which went nuts when I lowered the lighting for the photo shoot!

















Sam


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## Thomas McMillan (21 Oct 2008)

^ That's beautiful! I've never really liked scapes like this but this one is great.


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## Themuleous (21 Oct 2008)

Cheers Tom


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## JamesM (21 Oct 2008)

Yeah, looking really good with the added substrate, Sam! Top bombing!


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## Mark Evans (21 Oct 2008)

looks great john....errr, sam   

seriously now, way back when in the early days of my scaping  i fell upon this journal and got inspired by it. so thanks sam   

your the hc kid 8) 

all the best,

andy.....errrr, mark


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## Themuleous (21 Oct 2008)

Haha cheers, glad to have helped 

I'll have a huge 48x18 carpet of HC in my 4ft tank!!!

Sam


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## Steve Smith (21 Oct 2008)

This nano is inspiring me for the 12x10x8 optiwhite I just ordered from AE   Awesome nano Sam


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## Themuleous (21 Oct 2008)

Cool, clean and simple is the key in small tanks I think.

Good luck with your new nano  I'm temped by those, but I really am supposed to be cutting down on my tanks   

Sam


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## Steve Smith (21 Oct 2008)

I think I should probably have this in place of my 60cm which I was going to setup this weekend.  I'm getting to the "too many tanks" stage I think 

Need to re-home my rio 180 and this 60cm and that'll be it then...

Out of interest, when you re-scaped did you re-plant the HC and grow it immersed again or stick to submersed this time around?


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## Themuleous (21 Oct 2008)

It was immersed so kept it that way when I did the rescpe, seemed sensible.

I really don't like T5 lighting which I'm adamant was the route of my trouble with this tank.  But once I sorted that the HC seems to grow fine.

Sam


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## Vito (22 Oct 2008)

Nice sutup Sam, I'm a big fan of this kind of setup and I am trying to achive simular results myself but im finding my HC is not growing as fast as I hoped, whats your secret??

I am running Juwel Rio 125, 4x18W bulbs 9 hours a day, Dosing Dry ferts:

Got these mesurments from James Planted Tank website
20-40 Gallons (76-152 litres)
1/4 tsp KNO3 3x a week
1/16 tsp KH2PO4 3x a week
1/16 tsp traces 3x a week 

Presurized co2, recently up'ed the bps rate, drop checker shows yellow'ish.

also dosing 3ml Easycarbo daily...

I have Hairgrass, HC and glosso in the tank the glosso grows very quick and hs coverd 1/3 of the tank and I have Hairgrass in the back wich is doing ok... I just dont seem to have the lush green that most people seem to have...

Any advice mate?

Thanks,

Vito.


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## Steve Smith (22 Oct 2008)

Hey Vito.  Going by Sam's previous post, he dropped his lighting and the HC started growing faster.  Maybe drop the lighting by 18w and see if it makes any difference?

Edit:  Just noticed this was my 1000th post!  Yay me! (non of it spam, honest!!)


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## Themuleous (22 Oct 2008)

I've PM'd Vito  I think dropping the lighting worked cos it was T5, think Vito's tank is likely to be T8.  I was also running at a crazy 9.6WPG! 

Sam


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## TBRO (4 Apr 2009)

Love it, a lawn any English gardener would be proud of ! I know it would be the ultimate sin, but I wonder what a tasteful Easter Island head ornament being swallowed by HC would look like  :?:


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## TDI-line (5 Apr 2009)

Wow, looks great Sam.


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## Themuleous (5 Apr 2009)

Funny this should rear its head again, as whilst I unfortunately had to take it down (its now in my attic) this tank is going to be part of the more in depth 'Your tanks' on PFK, Matt emailed me recently to get some more info and photos 

Sam


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## Tony Swinney (5 Apr 2009)

Wow Sam, I'd miised this thread, but that HC is (or was !) fantastic - look forward to seeing your new scape.

Tony


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