# "Shiratani Ravine" by ADist (IAPLC 2011 #29)



## mustafaerdogar (10 Aug 2011)

Hello,

I want to introduce you to my new aquascape. I have a group for aquascaping in Turkey by the name of "ADist" (Aquarium Design Istanbul). We all close friends and usually help each others setups. For this setup, they helped me too (for some steps) . So, first of all, i want to send my thanks to them   


"*Shiratani Ravine*"
*A low-tech forest concept inspired by Shiratani ravine from Yakushima Island/Japan*














_For more photographs, please visit our website: http://www.adist.org_


*Tank Dimensions (cm):* 70*40*35 (h)

*Substrate:* Silica sand, fertilizer tabs 

*Filtration:* 680 l/h external filter 

*Lightning:* 2*18W T8, 10 hours/day (5 - 4 - 5) 

*CO2:* None (no CO2 injection) 

*Water Change:* %15 per week

*Fertilization:* Liquid fertilization (micro elements + NPK) after water change.

*Plants:* Blyxa aubertii, Ceratopteris thalictroides, Anubias barteri var. nana "petite", Myriophyllum mattogrossense, Mirosorum pteropus, Cardamina lyrata, Eleocharis parvula, Echinodorus quadricostatus, Vesicularia sp.

*Fish& Invertebrates:* Neocaridina denticulata

*Setup date:* March 2011
*Photography date:* May 2011

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*Setup*





Hardscape. Becouse of low plant conditions, hardscape is more important in low-techs for visual quality and impression (IMO). I used some rules such as golden rule and triangles for a good composition and benefited from forest photograps to make good natural athmosphere using stones and driftwoods. I used some natural glass rocks to make a water effect underwater.

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My friends came and helped me about some small modifications on hardscape. Then i made waterfall and ripples by using filter wool.

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View after planting. My firends helped a little about plant choice too.

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*Progress*





*2nd Week*

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*4th Week:* I had to renew filter wool because of dirt and some diatome. Fortunately diatome disapeared quickly.

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*6th Week:* Almost done   

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*7th week* photos are at top of the page   

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Your comments are important for me and my group. 

Thanks,


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## BigTom (10 Aug 2011)

Hi,

Your scape seems to have been the cause of quite a lot of discussion on other forums! Personally, I am not a fan of things like underwater waterfalls, but I do really like the rest of the hardscape and composition.


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

The hardscape is really quite groundbreaking and the overall impression is very refreshing.

Mimicking terrain underwater is always a subject of contention and it's interesting to see where different folk draw the line between Nature Aquarium and 'model railway'.

For me the waterfall looks very effective but it's not something I would choose to do myself.

Congratulations of your excellent IAPLC placement.  Thoroughly deserved, and thanks also for sharing your work on UKAPS.  I hope to see more of your work, and that of your fellow nationals, on here.

What is the ADist website address?  It sounds like an excellent group!


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## mustafaerdogar (10 Aug 2011)

Thank you very much for your comments.

George, our website address: 

http://www.adist.org


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## Tom (10 Aug 2011)

Your hardscape has given me inspiration for my pufferfish tank


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## mustafaerdogar (11 Aug 2011)

I noticed that anyone say anything about not using fish in this scape  With my group friends, sometimes we enter into an argument about this topic (most of our scapes, there is no fish). I am wondering your opinions. Thanks!


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## George Farmer (11 Aug 2011)

mustafaerdogar said:
			
		

> I noticed that anyone say anything about not using fish in this scape  With my group friends, sometimes we enter into an argument about this topic (most of our scapes, there is no fish). I am wondering your opinions. Thanks!


I think fish in an aquascape that actively seeks to imitate a land-based scene (with a waterfall) looks rather odd.

So in your case, leaving out fish was a good idea in my opinion.

Shrimp and snails can work better.


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## orchid (11 Aug 2011)

Thanks for sharing and also asking our individual point of view. Regarding that each country, even we are in a worldwide system, each country can have a style.  I am french but I hate french garden, but I love English garden, from the look but also the philosophy.  Like  I don't like most of the japanese and chinese garden but I love the japanese philosophy...world is complex and taste are often taken from our education and environment so I won't say anything about your tank, and even I found this way of doing tank really kitch this is not the problem because I love differences.   

So first congrats for your score, even for me I am not sure you deserv it; anyway  congrats, because to me the only thing that get interest it's to compet against ourself, so I am always happy for the other when they do good score  

Anyway I would say what disturb me:

- You have absolutely amazing landscape in Turkey, why taking this  forest in Japan? WIth  your group do you prospect to go out for a walk in the wild Turkey?  It 's sound that some people publish some images on some international forum so now probably Yakushima is on the table of thousands of aquascapers. 

I think that without any idea behind it's not the best way to do, Internet is too virtual, finally your landscape also. I found the same forest than Yakushima in Europe, exactly ...and when I show this images to aquascapers they say.."whaaa..this is in Japan"....this is quiet amazing to stay so much in front of our computer and after staying in front of our tank...This is a very closed world, something disturb me.

- the second point is linked with the first

You choose a photograph that you don't take yourself, then you arrange your layout regarding some rules. It's super honnest to say this, but honnestly this is super schoolar. It sound that without the guide line you would not be able to found the point, it's super boring to me actually. I hope you will forget that rules and break it in the futur. The real artist eat the rules and  vomit them to be free and just try to   forget this to try to be as innocent and without any intention like a child.. What real artist can do, what Amano can do, not with his bad photographs, but with his amazing  Iwagumi  for example. SOme photgraphers , really few can shoot without watching in the viewer,  just because the perfectly know that without any feeling the compostion is just something boring, and also because you need to control this things by experience, not with a photoshop tool that show you the rules of third....

-

Third point,  this short time to setup and the missing life is in total contradiction with the speech of Amano. Ths is so far from what he call the "elite" I don't feel I have a piece of nature in an aquarium, I just feel I have something like the Eiffel Tower in a bubble under the snow. 

Sorry to be hard but that is what I thank when I discovered your tank and also many others that are in the same vein.  

On that point I feel that today amazing tanks are far in the rank, and the top 100 is full of compromise and interested things regarding a certain mood and business..Don't know...but  probably to much judges make that..and Amano is not anymore an artist, but he is becomming a Guru of a society that make business. Even the new magazine is a just an advertising catalogue that stupid people like me paied....and at the end to dicsover that images inside are all selfproduce and  old archives...


But  I am happy and  I have good feeling when I saw what people  are doing in UK with all their new  movements and events...hope this will push things in old europe...


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## mustafaerdogar (14 Aug 2011)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> mustafaerdogar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your opinion George. I'm agree with you and i will forward your message to my friends.


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## mustafaerdogar (14 Aug 2011)

Hello orchid,

Yes, your message is a little bit hard but it's ok. Roundness is always important and acceptable for me   

On the other hand, it seems to me there is a questionable situation and a misunderstanding in your message.



			
				orchid said:
			
		

> - You have absolutely amazing landscape in Turkey, why taking this  forest in Japan? WIth  your group do you prospect to go out for a walk in the wild Turkey?  It 's sound that some people publish some images on some international forum so now probably Yakushima is on the table of thousands of aquascapers.
> 
> I think that without any idea behind it's not the best way to do, Internet is too virtual, finally your landscape also. I found the same forest than Yakushima in Europe, exactly ...and when I show this images to aquascapers they say.."whaaa..this is in Japan"....this is quiet amazing to stay so much in front of our computer and after staying in front of our tank...This is a very closed world, something disturb me.



Naming this scape is only a coincidence!    I was looking some photographs that taken from Yakushima with my friend and suddenly decided to simulate there. However, after started the setup i noticed that simulation of a forest from Yakushima  is nearly impossible in a low-tech tank and in a short time. Furthermore, i benefited from different forest photographs mostly. But i kept the name due to inspiration. Otherwise, we often go hiking, looking closer to nature and taking a lot of photographs. It's a very important part of aquascaping, i think.

On the other hand, about the second paragraph that i quoted above, i'm agree with you.




			
				orchid said:
			
		

> You choose a photograph that you don't take yourself, then you arrange your layout regarding some rules. It's super honnest to say this, but honnestly this is super schoolar. It sound that without the guide line you would not be able to found the point, it's super boring to me actually. I hope you will forget that rules and break it in the futur. The real artist eat the rules and  vomit them to be free and just try to   forget this to try to be as innocent and without any intention like a child.. What real artist can do, what Amano can do, not with his bad photographs, but with his amazing  Iwagumi  for example. SOme photgraphers , really few can shoot without watching in the viewer,  just because the perfectly know that without any feeling the compostion is just something boring, and also because you need to control this things by experience, not with a photoshop tool that show you the rules of third....



Misunderstanding is here  It's not about honesty, it is about helpfulness!  Especially in my country, there is only a few people interested in aquascaping. But planted aquarium owners are increasing day by day. We are very active persons in our local forums; attempting to promote them to aquascaping by answering questions, writing articles and making translations (to the best of our knowledge). Detailed introductions of our scapes is a part of this. Showing them what they can exactly do in order. As you said, the real artist have to eat them first!  Sharing this here too is only a rote


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## Mark Evans (14 Aug 2011)

Some pretty harsh words from orchid   

I personally, think it's been executed brilliantly. who cares if it's a Japanese, English or even a moon scape.Its fantastic.


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## orchid (14 Aug 2011)

Thanks Mustafa for you very kind and clear reply regarding my straight , and hard but honnest reply (I allow myself to be straight, as you ask for reply).  I deeply think that we all need to look in front of our door and around our memory to go far in aquascaping. When I was a child I used to play indians in some amazing forest that look  exactly like Yakushima primary forest, it is in west Brittany in france. 

Anyway....I have some exellent friends from Istanbul, all are amazing authors 'photographers and very talentuous. Your cultural background and education   is as strong as ,( perhaps stronger in many cases ), that most of the occidental countries, so what you say aout aquascape background in Turkey is not really important if you compare with many other countries... So even I am not fan of this first stage of your group I sincerly recognize a strong talent and a strong spirit...so....keep up this good things ...and  you will hang me  (and many others)with your next tanks projects that's sure

Thanks for your understanding !


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## orchid (14 Aug 2011)

Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Some pretty harsh words from orchid
> 
> I personally, think it's been executed brilliantly. who cares if it's a Japanese, English or even a moon scape.Its fantastic.




I know it's hard words but honnest. If the virtual river effect was not here perhaps I would have love it , even the left side is not well composed to my eyes...it's this way of bringing artificial things (like plastic, or resine to copy terestrial lakes or falls) that make me reacting like that; regarding the IALPC. 
Also I agree who cares that it is in Japan, England..the words are here, but I was saying this like a metaphor, because I feel that too much of us find inspiration on internet, when it's not directly IALPC past winners, Amano 's photographs or tanks. We all get inspired, that's normal things, but too much kill creativity and make a real lack of sensitivity .

I often think about the AGA 2009 of G Farmer  who win the biotope with his english river... When we just look around us....it give strong things that nobody done, because it came from real not from virtual.


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