# Hair algae (corrected Black Brush Algae)



## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

Juwel 180L
2 x 35w Juwel Hi-Lite bulbs with reflectors...
Co2 2kg Fire extinguisher Hydor diffuser.

Could the black hair algae I am getting be due tho the intorduction of my new Fluval Filter and new reflectors?

Algae is on Crypts and Anubis and some of the small gravel.

My lights were on 10 hours a day just dropped them to 9
I have upped the co2 to 3bps from 2bps


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## Superman (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

Have you increased your co2 and dosing with the new lights?


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

Sorry Clark I was just editing that part while you were replying

My lights were on 10 hours a day just dropped them to 9
I have upped the co2 to 3bps from 2bps


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## LondonDragon (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*



			
				mfcphil said:
			
		

> I have upped the co2 to 3bps from 2bps


What you need is a drop checker, counting bubble rates is pretty much useless.


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

I already have a drop checker 




Shows darkish green 

Still need to know how to rid myself of the hair algae


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## Ed Seeley (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

That drop checker looks a bit dark to me and it (and the algae) suggests you need a bit more CO2!  You could also dose with some EasyCarbo or Excel to help as it has anti-algae properties.

The new reflectors have upped the light levels in the tank and the CO2 usage has gone up with that so you need to add a bit more.  Adjust the CO2 carefully so you don't gas the fish!


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

Ok so I am going to slowly increase the CO2 and add some flourish excel will I have to remove the plants with the algae or will the hair algae die off?

Thanks


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## ceg4048 (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

Hi,
   Hair algae is not typically black, it's normally green, therefore it's likely that you are suffering from Black Brush Algae commonly known as BBA. As stated in previous post you will need to increase the injection rate until the dropchecker is a lime green color. It's also likely that you need to turn your gas on earlier, such as an hour or two prior to lights on so that the concentration level is high when the lights first turn on. This is the most important time of the entire photoperiod to have high, stable CO2 levels in the water column. It would also be a good idea to ensure that you have high turnover (10X the tank volume per hour rating).

You should immediately remove as many infected leaves as possible and apply the Excel to the tank as stated on the bottle. Increasing the water change frequency and volume also helps as well.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> Hair algae is not typically black, it's normally green, therefore it's likely that you are suffering from Black Brush Algae commonly known as BBA. As stated in previous post you will need to increase the injection rate until the dropchecker is a lime green color. It's also likely that you need to turn your gas on earlier, such as an hour or two prior to lights on so that the concentration level is high when the lights first turn on. This is the most important time of the entire photoperiod to have high, stable CO2 levels in the water column. It would also be a good idea to ensure that you have high turnover (10X the tank volume per hour rating).
> 
> You should immediately remove as many infected leaves as possible and apply the Excel to the tank as stated on the bottle. Increasing the water change frequency and volume also helps as well.
> ...




Many thanks although I dont understand what the 10X the tank volume per hour rating means  

Also I don't have a solenoid so I running co2 24/7


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## ceg4048 (31 Mar 2009)

*Re: Hair algae*

Hi,
    It means that if you have a 20 gallon tank the filter should be a 10 X 20 = 200 gallon per hour rating. If the filter isn't that strong then you should think about adding something like a Koralia powerhead which has a turnover rating sufficient that the sum of the powerhead rating plus the filter adds up to 200GPH.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

I see....I have a Juwel internal filter and a Fluval 305 external...do you think that is enough?


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## ceg4048 (31 Mar 2009)

Well,
        I'm fairly certain that a Juwel 180 is a 180 liter tank, which means it's more or less a 45 gallon tank. This means that "ideally", you should have combined filter ratings of 1800LPH, or, 450GPH. From what I can gather, it appears that a 305 is rated at 185GPH but I'm not entirely sure what the turnover rating of the internal filter is, so if it's say, 100GPH you'd have a combined rating of 285GPH which would be a shortfall of 125GPH.

Now this is not to say that you can't be successful with what you have, just that it's an area of weakness. Good flow solves a lot of problems, in this case it moves the CO2 around the tank with much greater force and efficiency, which helps to keep BBA and other CO2 related algae at bay. You have a good chance of solving the BBA by implementing the procedures discussed above, however Excel cost money, and long term it may not be the best solution. Increasing the CO2 injection rate to a level needed to keep algae at bay may negatively affect the fish. If in the future you decide to spend more money on this tank then what this algae is telling you is that you would best be served spending the money on more flow _before_ spending it on something else, such as more lighting. :idea: 

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

All seems odd to me...

I had a fluval 104 running without any algae problems at all...as soon as I get a bigger filter I get algae all over the place. :?


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

It looks like The Jewel Rio 180 comes complete with filtration, driven by a 1000LPH pump...I'm guessing the Juwel Vision 180 has the same filter system...so maybe I have enough  :?


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## ceg4048 (31 Mar 2009)

mfcphil said:
			
		

> It looks like The Jewel Rio 180 comes complete with filtration, driven by a 1000LPH pump...I'm guessing the Juwel Vision 180 has the same filter system...so maybe I have enough  :?


OK, if that's the case then maybe you do and that simple things like timing of the CO2 and upping the injection rate might do the trick. Remember though that _how_ the flow is distributed also is a factor.



			
				mfcphil said:
			
		

> All seems odd to me...
> 
> I had a fluval 104 running without any algae problems at all...as soon as I get a bigger filter I get algae all over the place. :?


Hmm, are you absolutely certain that's the only thing that changed, i.e. you installed the Fluval and suddenly there was algae? I see this a lot where we draw conclusions about causality by making connections to unrelated factors. How long was the tank setup with the internal filter only? How much time elapsed between the addition of the Fluval and the appearance of BBA? It could easily be for example that you had set into motion the conditions that cause BBA before you got the Fluval, and then the BBA appeared only _coincidentally_ with the addition of the new filter. It could easily be that your CO2 was marginal prior to the addition of the new filter and that the plants soon outgrew the CO2 supply, so that by the time the new filter was added BBA was already taking hold. The injection rate could have dropped without your being aware of it, or you might have had difficulty settling on an injection rate over the period of a week or two. The lighting period could have changed without your taking it into account. 

CO2 instability or starvation has a myriad of possible pathways so it might be premature to correlate BBA with the second filter.  

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (31 Mar 2009)

Thank you very much for your time and effort in helping sort out this problem...I will do all the things we have talked about and hopefully will see some possitive result


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## mfcphil (2 Apr 2009)

Started dosing Excel today!!

Co2 raised to 3bps
20ml Seachem Flourish Excel added.

Will add 5ml daily for the next couple of weeks and will hopefully see an reduction in the BBA


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## mfcphil (3 Apr 2009)

The Black algae that was on the back of the tank is turning a pinky red...does this mean it is dying


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## ceg4048 (3 Apr 2009)

Hi,
    Normally this means that the BBA is dying. Physical removal and water changes are important so you should continue to do this.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (3 Apr 2009)

Thats good to know....many thanks!!

I will continue with the excell until its all gone


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## mfcphil (8 Apr 2009)

Just short of a week with the Flourish Excel.

BBA just about gone


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## mfcphil (9 Apr 2009)

It looks like we have saw off the BBA 

Should I use the Flourish until its gone...I only got the 100ml bottle...Dosing at 5ml every other day  :?:


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## ceg4048 (10 Apr 2009)

Yes, but now you have to decide what to do next. Excel effectively adds CO2 and has algecidal properties so have you increased your injection rate and stabilized your CO2 sufficiently, or will you have to continue to add Excel? If the answer to the first part is no then the BBA will return if you stop adding Excel.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (10 Apr 2009)

Well I don't want to keep using excel...what would you suggest?

Thanks!!


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## ceg4048 (11 Apr 2009)

Have you increased the injection rate? Have you changed the timing of the gas? These are the usual fixes.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (11 Apr 2009)

I have increased the gas from 2bps to between 3 and 4bps

The co2 is on 24/7 as I don't have a solenoid.


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## ceg4048 (11 Apr 2009)

OK, well, see if that rate does the trick. If not then you'll have to bump it up some more.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (11 Apr 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> OK, well, see if that rate does the trick. If not then you'll have to bump it up some more.
> 
> Cheers,




Many thanks for your advice....Again


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## mfcphil (6 May 2009)

The BBA is back     

Here is what I am doing...

I stopped using the excell about three weeks ago, 
I have got the lights down to 9 hours per day 
I have upped the co2 from 2 to 3bps to about 5bps 
I have added a solenoid which turns on just after the lights come on and turns off just before the lights go out.

I have had to remove so many anubis leaves that were covered in the stuff, there is hardly any of the plant left...

totally getting me down


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## JamesM (6 May 2009)

mfcphil said:
			
		

> The BBA is back
> 
> Here is what I am doing...
> 
> ...


Really, you want the co2 on around 2 or 3 hours BEFORE lights on, and off an hour or two before light off.

I'd lower the lighting period to 7 or 8 hours. Plants don't need much more than 6 hours.

Instead of removing BBA infected leaves, spot dose with Excel/EasyCarbo. Make sure your filter is off, and use a syringe right at the infected part(s).


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## mfcphil (6 May 2009)

Thank you for the pointers.

Could you exlain the spot treatment....do you mean remove the plant from the tank and syringe the leaves?

I will setup the timers to come on as you suggested...Thanks


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## JamesM (6 May 2009)

No, just use a small amount of EasyCarbo in a syringe pointed directly at the infected areas of the plant underwater With the filter off it helps give the BBA a bigger exposure to the liquid carbon, otherwise it'll just be washed away too quick.

Don't go nuts with the amount of liquid co2 used though as it's highly toxic when overdosed.


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## mfcphil (6 May 2009)

Many Thanks James

Can I use excel instead of easy carbo...as I already have some of that?


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## JamesM (6 May 2009)

Sure


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## nisharific (25 May 2009)

I am having the same problem but I have A DIY Co2 system. I finish my exams tomorrow and gonana have to deal with it later this week. Any advice?


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## mfcphil (3 Jun 2009)

The BBA is back with a vengeance.  
I have fire extinguisher CO2 at about 6 or 7 bps
Co2 comes on at 11.30am and goes off at 8pm

_*Light 2 times 35w Juwel Hi-Lite bulbs with reflectors*_
Lights come on at 2pm and go off at 9pm

Does this seem ok???

I am dosing 5ml of flourish excel per day (having no effect)
I've upped the co2 and dropped the light...what else can I try?

Please Advise!


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## ceg4048 (4 Jun 2009)

Phil, you'll need to drop the light back and to resume multiple large water changes per week. I also noticed where you decided against removing infected leaves. I'd remove as much as possible. 

How much more can you increase the injection rate without stressing the fish? That is your target for the moment. The rate certainly seems high enough, that's for sure but bubble rate means nothing as there is no standard bubble volume. The timing seems OK to me, a few hours before lights on should be OK. 

Can you show us some images of your hardware configuration? Distribution method is in question.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (4 Jun 2009)

Thanks for the reply Clive, I will get some photo's of the set up over the weekend.

When you say drop back on the lighting what do you mean, amps or time?


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## ceg4048 (4 Jun 2009)

The wattage needs to be reduced. High intensity=Loss of control  

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (4 Jun 2009)

Should I remove the reflectors?


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## ceg4048 (4 Jun 2009)

Well, I reckon disabling one bulb ought to do the trick. When you finally fix the problem and you want to bring both bulbs back on line you may then want to consider removing the reflectors.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (4 Jun 2009)

Unfortunately itâ€™s a Juwel system so both bulbs work off the same breaker.
I have remove one reflector for now


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## mfcphil (6 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Phil, Can you show us some images of your hardware configuration? Distribution method is in question.
> 
> Cheers,



Here are some photo's of the set up Clive

The Co2






The Internal filter with the drop checker and bubble counter in view





Directly below the internal filter is my Hydor turbo diffuser....bubbles rise and are blown towards the left filter





To the left is the fluval 305 external filter


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## mfcphil (6 Jun 2009)

I have a hydor turbo diffuser still in the box going spare


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## mfcphil (6 Jun 2009)

Back wall one of the bad spots right next to the right hand side filter.





A week after I removed all bad leaves it starts coming back


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## ceg4048 (6 Jun 2009)

Thanks for the photos.   

Well, it looks to me that the diffuser is hidden behind some plants so this prevents CO2 from reaching all areas in a "timely" manner. This is one of my biggest beefs with internal diffusers. Now, I'm not saying that CO2 doesn't find it's way across to the other side of the tank. What I'm proposing is that it's not happening quickly enough. Remember that your dropchecker has a 2 hour lag, so when lights go on it may not be indicating accurately. If you can mount multiple diffusers you'd have a better chance. You just have to manage the split gas. 

There is also that back wall thing that affects flow. Wasn't it you that discovered what a terrible effect those mounted background have on flow and then removed it? Or did I dream that? Whatever, definitely, whether real or imagined, that thing is killing you because it's disrupting flow.

There is a thread where JamesC mounted a Koralia such that the output of the diffuser is sucked up and spread very efficiently by the Koralia's fan. I'll try to find that thread for you.

Standard procedure is to keep the tank trimmed so as to avoid blocking flow. As plants grow in their demands increase and they block flow so this is a double whammy. In any case I'm pretty sure you need to put the thinking cap on and try to get better distribution. Probably burning that background at the stake (Joan of Arc style) would be a good first step.

Cheers,


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## aaronnorth (6 Jun 2009)

> There is also that back wall thing that affects flow. Wasn't it you that discovered what a terrible effect those mounted background have on flow and then removed it? Or did I dream that? Whatever, definitely, whether real or imagined, that thing is killing you because it's disrupting flow.



you aren't dreaming, that is the first thing that came to my head too. I think it was flyfisherman.


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## mfcphil (6 Jun 2009)

No it was not me about the backing.....

Here is another pic about the flow....and the gap the diffuser has


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## Nelson (6 Jun 2009)

it was chris1004

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4713&p=67790#p67790


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## ceg4048 (6 Jun 2009)

Yeah, that was the one. Thanks Neil!   There are probably as many way to mess up good flow/distribution as there are hobbyists, so have a read of that thread.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (6 Jun 2009)

Backing removed....hopefully over the next week or so I may see some improvements


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## mfcphil (18 Jun 2009)

Still no signs of improvement...I have ordered a Koralia One powerhead to improve the flow of co2...if that does not fix it I don't know what else to do.


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## ceg4048 (19 Jun 2009)

Phil are you dosing Excel and doing physical removal?

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (19 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Phil are you dosing Excel and doing physical removal?
> 
> Cheers,




I am doing everything you suggested.

Dosing 5ml excel per day 
Removed the backing
Removing affected leaves
Removed the relectors from light
Upped the co2 flow rate (cant count bubbles) and added an extra hour to timer
Dropped lights an extra 30 mins on timer.
50% water changes every Sunday


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## ceg4048 (19 Jun 2009)

I'm surprised that the Excel isn't doing the job. Normally, if enough Excel is added, within days the BBA turns red and starts to die off. If you have no shrimp or other sensitive critters in there you want to consider ODin the Excel. 

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (19 Jun 2009)

Will Do Clive!!

Hopefully when the Koralia is added the flow will help spread the co2 about


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## mfcphil (22 Jun 2009)

New flow....moved the hydor diffuser just below the new nano


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## ceg4048 (22 Jun 2009)

Hi Phil, sorry this has turned into a soap opera mate, I do feel for you. It's frustrating. I went back to read all the posts in the thread and it seems that prior to the beginning of May you used Excel and you reported that the BBA turned red and ultimately disappeared. Then you stopped dosing and shortly afterward it reappeared. It was suggested that you turn on the gas earlier after you got the solenoid.

What I'm finding mysterious is that all of a sudden, the Excel treatment is not working. Could you clarify whether you are dosing the same amount of Excel now as you were back in May?

Now we need to get down to the nitty gritty. I want you to take some pH readings for me:

A reading 2 hours before GAS ON
A reading at LIGHTS ON
A reading 1 hour after LIGHTS ON
A reading at the middle of the photoperiod
A reading at LIGHTS OFF

We'll take a look at the CO2 profile and see where we are.

Cheers,


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## mfcphil (22 Jun 2009)

Hi Clive

Hey if I learn on the way it will all be worth it!!

I will take some readings over the weekend....this will give the new flow and the overdosing of excell chance to work


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## mfcphil (27 Jun 2009)

figues coming tomorrow.....new look without backing, hopefully you can see the co2 getting circulated better.


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## ceg4048 (28 Jun 2009)

OK, actually looks fairly decent from that angle. Is that Blyxa in the middle? If so it's a fairly good CO2 indicator plant so you're not far from a solution mate. looks 10,000,000X better without that backing. Just get some grey or blue external backing from the LFS. Do NOT get the ones with pictures of plants on them though...That's grounds for dismissal and possible lifetime ban...

Cheers,


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## JamesM (28 Jun 2009)




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## mfcphil (28 Jun 2009)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Just get some grey or blue external backing from the LFS. Do NOT get the ones with pictures of plants on them though...That's grounds for dismissal and possible lifetime ban...
> 
> Cheers,




Damn......you spoil all my fun


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## mfcphil (18 Nov 2009)

ok in a final attempt to solve the BBA and smelly green algae problems I have been having with this tank for ages!! I have now bought a spray bar to try and improve the flow in the tank.

Does anyone know how to stop the horrid whistling noise coming from the bar?

I am replacing another batch of plants at the weekend in a final attempt to get a decent tank...if this fails I'm going back to rocks


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## CeeJay (18 Nov 2009)

Hi mfcphil

If your spray bar is whistling, it is normally a sign that you have some air in it. 
To remove the air from mine I just popped off the end cap and the air gets blown out the end, and calm is restored   .

Chris


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## mfcphil (19 Nov 2009)

chrisr01 said:
			
		

> Hi mfcphil
> 
> If your spray bar is whistling, it is normally a sign that you have some air in it.
> To remove the air from mine I just popped off the end cap and the air gets blown out the end, and calm is restored   .
> ...




Thanks Chris I will give it a try


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## Piece-of-fish (10 Dec 2009)

Hi, so how is it going, its been almost a month since your last post, any improvements?
I have the similar problem, the BBA is growing just on the substrate though under the glosso carpet, does not bother me too much but since its multiplying i think its time to address the problem as well.


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## mfcphil (10 Dec 2009)

Not going to lie, the hair algae has not completely gone but it is not appearing in all the places it was and its not as abundant as it was before....Still removing some of the glass but the signs are pretty good....

The Blue - Green algae IN THE SUBSTRATE is the new pain in the blahblahblahblah I am dealing with now


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## plantbrain (11 Dec 2009)

Please note most planted aquarists have experience all the algae at some point, and many have little control in the beginning.

Your attitude will be tempered later, and hopefully you will see that good consistent care, good management of light and CO2 are the more critical issues. Then you go years without algae issues, and if they start to show up, you know pretty much what to do.



Regards, 
Tom Barr


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