# A pond in the terrace



## parotet (4 May 2014)

Hi all

I live in a flat with a small terrace (around 10 m2) which is crowded of plants but… yes, I also want to have my little pond  . There is a corner surrounded by small walls where I can hide a plastic basket with maximum dimensions 60x50x40 cm (LxWxH), let's say 135 liters. Nevertheless I have two doubts I want to ask you:

1. the exposition will be NE… thus no direct sun, but plenty of light. I live in the Mediterranean coast so I think it is better not to have direct sun to prevent my small water volume from boiling  (now in May the temperature is 25ºC but in two months it will be around 38ºC). Do you think this exposition/no direct sun would be a problem? I don’t want necessarily to have Nenuphar species (which I think is the most limiting species in that case).

2. I would prefer to avoid any kind of equipment such as air or movement pumps. Probably not having direct sun will help, but is it possible to have this volume without a pump/filter?

In order to give you a better idea of what I want, I would like to have a small submerged jungle with bits and pieces from my tanks (Egeria, Miriophyllum... I won't really see them, just for oxygenating). Also some emerged aquatic plants (giant horsetail, Crypts, Rotala, Limnophila…) probably on hanging baskets attached to the walls and terrestrial potted plants well adapted to have their roots in the water (Monstera, ferns, Ficus, Spatiphyllum, etc.). I would add Gambusia affinis in order to control mosquito larvae and probably some local shrimps. The water from my tanks would be used to fill the pond when needed. No water changes of course...

Thanks in advance for your advice,
Jordi


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## Lindy (4 May 2014)

In thailand, around temple grounds, they had what looked like large glazed planters that were filled with water and had water lillies in them. There were little wild type guppies or bettas (couldn't tell from above) in them presumably to eat the mozzie larvae. I don't think they were topped up other than when it rained and I doubt they would have had water changes either. They were also in full sun.


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

No water changes and no filtration? If you don't mind the smell it can be done with the right mainanance. I got a sink bath tub about 180 liter in my garden/ on terrace this summer as a pond with several plants and 6 goldfish for about 6 years now. I do water changes an do filtrate it with 2 filters. 1 is a filter with sponge and bio balls and the other just for flow and filters only on sponge. I do not use organic soil but only gravel substrate..
And still it smells like a swamp sometimes and this is getting stronger the longer i wait with the water change when the temp rises. Thats not what you want on a terrace i guess, at least it wont be verry appealing to sit next to.. And i can tell you this will only get worse if you're planning to use organic substrate in non moving water with 38c.

Also adding some fish will help you prevent breeding a mosquito bomb, it always will be atracking some mosquitos and other insects that's not an issue, but the larvea don't stand a chance with the fish in it .

Direct sunlight isn't such a big deal, floating plant give enough shade and enough oxygenating plants keep algea out. Just keep out the organic soils.. And only if you keep fish you need to help a hand by cooling some with water change and only take fish which can take it a bit temp fluctuations, like goldfish. Other regular pond fish need more depht and can't stand the heat in the summer, will get sick. And tropical fish can't stand the temp fluctuations. And i do not live at the mediterranean, but we also have summers with rather hot and damp unpleasant periods. 

Filtration doesnt have to be a hassle nor expensive, i use some 75mm pvc sewage pipe fittings and a simple € 20 streaming pump, put some spong and bio ceramics in it and a hose to connect it to the pump and its rocking and rolling for 6 years now. Total cost less then €35,- The other pump one is a simple € 5 streaming pump glewed a hose connector to it, cut a plastic botle in half drilled a hole in the cap. Stick it to the hose connector and put sponge in it. It runs like a charme and the fish love to play in the stream and it cools. A small fountain or waterfall will also help cooling a bit, the fish like it..


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## martin-green (27 May 2015)

I would have to agree with you regarding the filtration. With out any its like having a toilet and using it but never flushing it and wondering why it smells. 

I can't help but wonder if parotet (The person who asked in the first place) ever did take the project any further since he asked the question last year, and never asked / mentioned it again, but still posts on the forum. perhaps if we wait another year, we may get a reply


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## parotet (27 May 2015)

Hi all!

Yes I am here and I still have my micro pond. It was finally a 70 liters plastic basket without any kind of filtration. 1/3 of the surface is occupied by a pond container filled with all kind of plants (giant Equisetum, Hydrocotyle vulgaris, pieces of old redmoor, etc.). The surface is covered by a dense carpet of Lemma harvested from the rice paddies. There are also submerged plants but Egeria is the only one that has survived in the longterm. I have tried some stems plants from my tanks but they hardly survive except for Ludwigia repens which does well in some periods of the year. Summer is really the worst moment here, very high temperatures and evaporation mAke things really difficult. It is the moment where I have to fight with hair green algae.... Every 2-3 days I have to work some minutes on the pond if I don't want to have all invaded, but the rest of the year is fine. It reminds me a bit my moss setups, all you need is patience, a lot of patience, but no hard maintenance combed to my planted.

I have some Gambusia affinis also collected from the rice paddies I have around, very small fish introduced in Europe decades ago but that are used to these temperatures. They are very good controlling mosquito larvae.
The smell is not really a problem, at least we have not noticed it but maybe the small volume is the key. However, my guess is that the small volume (thus significant temperature variation and evaporation) is also a constraint for reaching stability and avoid green algae.
In a hurry but I'll try to post some pictures... This weekend I was working on it. (a pre-summer reboot works very well, let's say a water change) so it is half empty and not in its best moment, but I'll try to look for older pictures.

Jordi


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

Yes i noticed that to late as well, when i was done writing. lol. Its the second topic in here so i thought it was more recent.. Pond ideas aren't so popular obviously..
Anyway another note for anybody interesting reading it is: Why not use organic soil like clay or dirt?.  Putting a bucket with water on your terrace to create a pond is nothing more that an aquarium without glass. Once in a while you might need to sifon things out, when using dirt, you are very soon done sifoning. You only have to top side to see (clearly) what your doing. And since you cant put water aside with you hands it will take less than a minute and you''ll see zip and nothing but troubled water instead of the bottom. With a substrate gravel you keep the water clear more easily, white or light colored are the best. 

Maybe this helps to get this idea more popular.. Because it isn't hard, actualy easier then keeping an aquarium..
Cheers.


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

parotet said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Yes I am here and I still have my micro pond. It was finally a 70 liters plastic basket without any kind of filtration. 1/3 of the surface is occupied by a pond container filled with all kind of plants (giant Equisetum, Hydrocotyle vulgaris, pieces of old redmoor, etc.). The surface is covered by a dense carpet of Lemma harvested from the rice paddies. There are also submerged plants but Egeria is the only one that has survived in the longterm. I have tried some stems plants from my tanks but they hardly survive except for Ludwigia repens which does well in some periods of the year. Summer is really the worst moment here, very high temperatures and evaporation mAke things really difficult. It is the moment where I have to fight with hair green algae.... Every 2-3 days I have to work some minutes on the pond if I don't want to have all invaded, but the rest of the year is fine. It reminds me a bit my moss setups, all you need is patience, a lot of patience, but no hard maintenance combed to my planted.
> 
> ...



Look at that..  Nice you still got it.. May i ask what soil you are using. That is what i notice the most where the algea problems start.. Pond shops sell oftenly the same plants as we use in aquarium. Aquarium shops deliver them on rock woll and pond shops do them on dirt soil with clay and sand. To organic and to rich in ferts for such a small water mass..


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## parotet (27 May 2015)

zozo said:


> May i ask what soil you are using. That is what i notice the most where the algea problems start.


I use a pond soil I found in a garden center... and I agree it is making things much more difficult. This weekend i was thinking about changing it by gravel, but I was to lazy to do it. 
I also agree that my pond management approach is far from my tanks. I just see it from above and I really don't care if there are algae

Jordi


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

parotet said:


> I use a pond soil I found in a garden center... and I agree it is making things much more difficult. This weekend i was thinking about changing it by gravel, but I was to lazy to do it.
> I also agree that my pond management approach is far from my tanks. I just see it from above and I really don't care if there are algae
> 
> Jordi


That's where the mistake is born, in the garden centres they make people believe ponds and pond soil are 2 inseparable compounds. But they are just a garanty of getting green troubled water and other algeas. For a large self sustaining pond it's ok, but small ones it is almost alway a stinky problem after some time. you rather don't stick your hands in without gloves..

Here are some pics of mine  and as you can see it's clear like you could drink it, the water is in there for a month now. And it gets full sun all day.
Still have to put some more plants in there..








Potamogeton gayi doing better in the pond in the full stream than in the aquarium..








I filter it like this



connected whit a hose to a cheap powerhead


and this to create some more movement, since it is 170 cm long.








When it starts to smell i do a bottom sifoning and put fresh water back in.


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## parotet (27 May 2015)

Mine is like this









As mentioned it is being rebooted right now... I hope Ficus pumila will cover the back wall (since the roots reached the water it is growing very fast). I have pruned 1/2 of the Equisetum leaves that looked not very nice, as well as the Chamaedorea on the right that was much bigger.

During some time I looked for little solar panels for running an air pump. I guess it should be more than enough for such a small pond but I was never sure if the models I found were able to make the pump work or not, or if it was going to work only with the sun hitting directly the panels. I'm quite bad on electronics . Any help would be appreciated... I can really plug the pump, but the plug is in the other corner of the terrace, far from the pond, and I don't want to mess with electric cables and I would prefer a 'low carbon' solution!

Jordi


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

Nice one..  Looks great.. For pumps, search ebay for DC 12 volt air pump or water pump, they also run on 5 volts. not so fast but fast enough..
I use this one €3,50 and € 2.50 for the regulator, for cleaning the soil in my tank. If i run it ful power on 12 volts it sucks up my substrate. On delicate spots i use it half speed like 5 or 6 volts. And still bublles like crazy. Actualy never found a + € 10 - 220volts air pump you have to regulate with an old fashion hose pincher in an aquarium shop doing a better job. We get hassled in those shops you just don't want to believe. They must think we are crazy and sniffing to much aquarium water..




It easily runs on a solar power panel, put a rechargable battery between it.


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## parotet (27 May 2015)

Thanks zozo... dumb questions:

1. you don't need a regulator if you don't want to have any kind of control on the pump, right?
2. which are the specs of the solar panel to ensure that it will run the pump? I have found very cheap ones but people report that they only run with direct sun.
3. can you elaborate a bit more on "put a rechargeable battery between it". Which battery (mobile battery for example)? How? Easy to do?

As you can see, I'm low tech 

Jordi


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

No you dont need a regulator, the regulator is just a pwm device which pull's the voltage down, i run it on a 12 volt power supply.. If you search for such a pump look at the voltage specs.. Like mine can operate on 3,6,9 and 12 volts, you need that for the sarting power, some wont start at lower voltage then 12.. The more volts the more the performance is. So buy first the pump, hook it to a battery set, like 2 AA in serie = 3 volts and see if it performs like you wish, if not connect 4 AA in serie = 6 volts and so on. Till you find the powerlevel you're happy with. Then search for a solar cell that gives that power, if i'm not mistaken you can also put those in serie to increase the voltage output. F.e. look in those cheap china snip snap shops where you can by all sorts of gadgets for a few pennies. There you might find a string of those tiny solar cell powerd garden lantarns or christmas tree decoration for € 7.50 or something where you can stick the solar cell housing with a pin in the ground, i've seen them at several places. If they run 6 leds they are over 5 volts, just look at the specs. Cut the lights of and connect the pump.  So you don't need a whole toolkit to reinvent the wheel.

And don't be afraid about china stuff, china is everywhere you look.. Some are bad some are good.. around my town is a solar cell factory "Soland" first it was a Dutch German coop, then it went Italian, all 3 went bakrupt, now it is sold to the Chinees  So the Chinees are in the Netherlands making solar cells. "Made in Holland". lol...


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## zozo (27 May 2015)

Here you go..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-5V-12V-6...e&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=361066232568&rt=nc


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## zozo (28 May 2015)

Look it this video it explains all, better than i can with writing the whole story down.


You can do it also without a charge controler using a diode in the + line.. But charge controler is better and wont over charge the battery.

See f.e. Banggood, there they sell 6 volt 3 watt solar cells for about € 7


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## parotet (28 May 2015)

Thank you! Great information, I will study it in detail

Jordi


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## martin-green (28 May 2015)

Some things not mentioned.

(For this example I will use a pump that consumes 3 watts)

You buy a cheap 3 w solar panel, a voltage regulator*, and a 2.1 Ah battery

You connect it up and it all works well for a few days, then nothing, why?

As the pump is 3 watts, and the solar panel is 3 watts, what is left to charge the battery? 

Also, a diode in line is NOT a good idea, since the style of battery best used for this type of project have a "Minimum working voltage" if you go below this voltage too often you will considerably reduce the life of the battery, but if you use a "voltage regulator" as shown in the video when the battery voltage gets too low, the battery will be switched off, which saves the battery from premature failure.

The other thing worthy of note, is that if like me you are in the UK, you will need a "rather large" solar panel, or several small ones wired in parallel to produce enough energy, which in turn puts the cost up, meaning is it still worth it? 

Although a solar panel says (for example) 3 watts this is its maximum power output under direct sunshine, and don't forget the UK is famous for rain in summer and even snow in spring.

I am not saying don't try it, I am saying it may not be as good as you think it will be.


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## JohnC (28 May 2015)

Hiya,

Loving this. 

I have a couple of old sinks in the back garden up here in sunny scotland. currently they are daphnia farms but i'm planning on making mini ponds out of them and have been looking around for others ideas. 

I'll post some photos when i get home although i'm still at the musing stage so they are nothing compared to you guys lovely examples.

John


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## parotet (28 May 2015)

martin-green said:


> Some things not mentioned.
> 
> (For this example I will use a pump that consumes 3 watts)
> 
> ...


Hi Martin

Thank you for the comments. I live in Spain (Mediterranean coast) so more than enough sun! My concern is to really know each single piece of equipment needed to assess if it is really worth it. I mean, it would make no sense if the whole set costs 50 euros, because for 5 euros I can buy a cheapo pump, extend the cable and plug it. I was trying to avoid a cable crossing the terrace and using electricity...

Jordi


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## zozo (28 May 2015)

Yes ofcourse this will always cost more than a cable and a € 10 airpump  if you like to run it 24/7 with a rechargable battery on solar cells. When you ask me about it and you dont give anything about the learning curve and the fun in putting usefull things togheter and have a lauch when you're done. And your basic knowledge realy is zip, no, it's never worth the money and all the hassle..

You can run it during the day directly on one 6 volt 3 watt solar cell and take for granted that it doesn't run at night or maybe not when days are cloudy. Which i only have seen in the winter months in spain in the mountains around Malaga.  But like i said, then you need to search for a pump that can run and start in that range.. Not all motor/pumps listed as 12 volts can do that.. 

To make it run early in the day, you actualy need one that runs on quite a low voltage, or it will only start running when the sun hits it full power.. Then the battery thing will comes in handy again.

The idea is possible..


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## parotet (28 May 2015)

Thanks zozo, yes you're right. There's something more in this project than just the economic cost. Exploring my very limited skills on electronics would be one of the challenges. 

Jordi


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## parotet (28 May 2015)

Ok, another dumb question... I have noticed that in eBay there are plenty of solar sets for being attached to water pumps but not that much for air pumps. Due to power needs? Or maybe I was wrongly assuming that an air pump would be better than a water pump).  Probably, as far as the water jet is able to break the surface the oxygenation would be the same or even better, right?

Another question: these kinds of solar sets are quite common and surprisingly affordable: http://www.ebay.es/itm/FUENTE-DE-AG...3?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item56716514d5. I guess this solar panel would be able to work only under direct sun... do you think it would be easy to adapt a battery to ensure 24/7 pump working?

Jordi


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## zozo (28 May 2015)

Waterpump or airpump doesn't realy matter.  both are in this case driven by a DC electro motor, the watterpump drives a propeller and the airpump a membrane or a piston and works like a bellow. So if the power specs of the DC motor are about the same it doesnt make a difference which one you run on it..

As for your 2nd question the discription of the product answers


> Periodo de funcionamiento en un día soleado: 8:00 AM - 5:30PM (dependerá de la hora en que amanezca o atardezca)



And as Martin already said, you need an overhead to charge a battery the specs say the bomba has 30ma overhead.. I believe that wont be enough to charge a battery and run the pump..  Lo siento..

Btw usualy those little pumps have a nozle you can adjust a bit, you could make a tiny fountain with it, that will also oxygenate the water a little better and cool it a bit more. Adjust the flow so that it wont spray out of the bucket.. And haha hear me about reinventing the wheel, i'm so in diy mode that i didn't think of they already excisted.. ¿duh? lol I thin i order me one.. Thanks for sharing..


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## zozo (28 May 2015)

¡Ay Caramba!! Mira..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLAR-POWER...782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ec6e95bd6


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## parotet (28 May 2015)

zozo said:


> ¡Ay Caramba!! Mira..
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLAR-POWER...782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ec6e95bd6


Gracias! The solar panel is really small. Maybe this explains the price difference.

Jordi


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## martin-green (28 May 2015)

I can never forget  this bloke


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## parotet (29 May 2015)

A bit disappointing, isn't it? Even for my nano terrace pond this won't have much effect... I'll have a look for the specs of this model, it's obvious it has to be something better.
Maybe I should come back to the DIY plan. I'm sure there are solar panels at a reasonable price that match better the pump needs, and a 12v water pump is not something expensive. 

Jordi


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## martin-green (29 May 2015)

When looking for a 12v pump don't forget to check its power consumption and its usage rating........

For example a 12v bilge pump, (No particular make / model) They claim to pump around 500 LPH. sounds good, but.........
Most bilge pumps can only run for x amount of minutes at a time, even if its 120 minutes its not much use for a pond. 
Also to achieve the 500 LPH they use around 2.5 A which at 12v is around 30 watts, a 30 watt solar panel is not cheap, then as said before, you need a bigger solar panel to charge the batteries. 

It can all be done, but not on a small budget. Which is why people opt for mains powered pumps as they cost less and run continuously.


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## zozo (30 May 2015)

I still got this one at home, once ordered it to do some with it in the future for my aquaponic idea. Didn't come to that yet, still brainstorming.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Ultra-...485?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f1750cf5

Quite a nice little strong  submerseble pump, 12 volt 4,2 watt 240l/h, it can run on a solar panel like 2 x 6v/3w in serie, still wont be enough for running it on a battery and charge it at the same time. I tested it as powerhead in my tank , it runs like a charme and swirls my 40 liters a bit to much.. It needs 10,6 volt as starting power and it wont run with less, so it only runs full power. So the panels need to give full power to make it run, the question is at what point of the day will that be?

I guess you need at least a 12 volt 20 watt pannel, a charge controller to charge a 11,2 volt 1500mah lipo battery.. A 12 volt 10 watt panel  somewhat arounf $ 25 x 2, charge controler $ 15, battery $ 15 motor $ 5 some wire, some hose, some construction material to mount and to make you a little filter so the pump wont clog. Battery have a cycle life, the life like a notepad battery have about a 1000 load cycles to live. After that the time will be getting much shorter to drain it empty. For example like lot of us maybe have experienced already, new notebook runs 5 hours on the battery, 2 years later only 1/2 an hour left. This is all depending on the quality of the battery and if it is in constant use, so these things you need to take in consideration.

I use this pump to run my filter.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-High-Qu...815?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4d805d77
12v - 1050ma 13 watt 600l/h,  it can run on lower power and starts at 6,4 volts, but still it use about 7 watts to run like that. Thats even more consumption than the little one from above.

At least if you like to push a fair amount of dense medium like water around to get a nice cooling and aerating flow, you need some power you can't get around that. And that's what you only will find in the aquarium or pond section..

I'm not sure how they performe but you could take a look in the computer or model building section. There often small 3 volts pumps are used to provide cooling or do something funny with an electric train model setup. Here is an example of a totaly home made 3 volt pump. But you'll find them also ready made in the model building stores.
http://www.instructables.com/id/A-homemade-water-pump/
Little pumps llike that have a 4 mm nozle and spray considerably more powerfull than a pump with same specs and 10mm nozle like the pond thing in the video. In you little bucket it might just do.


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## parotet (24 Jul 2015)

Hi all

I have decided to upgrade my terrace pond (which I think should be better called balcony pond). This year the mini pond is doing so well that I will change its location in order to have a larger volume and a bit more of sun.

This is how it will look like:




Two plastic containers will be used, one as a green filter with (with Alocasia, Lythrum, etc.) and another one as the truly pond. I will build a kind of wood fence around. As you can see it is not a large volume, all together around 170 liters.

I will wait until the autumn for setting it up but I need your advise for a few issues:

1. The idea is to place a submerged pump in the pond to push the water through the green filter which will be filled with gravel. I will use a PVC pipe that will go to the bottom of the container and will be drilled to let the water flow downwards... Hoping that this way it won't get clogged





Do you know a better option? Will it get clogged?

2. The green filter container will be placed higher than the pond container so the water will fall due to gravity (using a small tube). If there is a power cut, part of the water in the higher container will go the the lower one, my guess is that it will be just a few liters, exactly the difference between the two water columns... Am I right? Any additional precaution?

3. I am not sure what pump will be needed to run such system. What about an Eheim Compact 600 (up to 600 lph)?

Any suggestion is welcome, even if it entails a complete change in the design 

Jordi


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## zozo (24 Jul 2015)

Actualy if you don't use a pump suitable for dirt water, you need to prefilter the pump, or that one will be clogged soon. Those dirt water pumps, don''t know i what sizes they are available but i guess to strong and noisy for such a little project. so i guess you're might be stuck with the prefilter idea.

I use this Aqeul flow pump in my terrace pond, it pushes 1100l/h only costs €20. Hoses can be connected to either side. more than enough for 170 liters.




For the green filter inlet i would use that flexible perforated drainage pipe wraped with coconut fiber




at the bottom and make a u turn with it and glew it to a pvc stand pipe to connect the pump with a hose and cap the other end.. That will never get clogged at least not for a few years.  And lay that pipe in a bed of lava grit, small rocks or pumis with a few inches of someting like Akadama as smaller substrate on top.

I made a filter like this connected to the pump above, pump and filter were about € 30 and it already runs for years..



i your case one half this size with a rough filter sponsh to catch the biggest dirt pieces would be sufficient.

Maybe you could use a hose from an old vacuum cleaner as flexible pipe and perforate that yourself whit as many holes as you can. I gues some sheets of coconut fiber wont be hard to come by to wrap around it.


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## parotet (24 Jul 2015)

Thanks zozo, I didn't mentioned it but I would put the pump inside a small plastic box with some sponges in the inlet to avoid clogging. I've seen specific pumps for ponds but I cannot see any advantage and having a green filter my guess is that I only need to ensure good flow.

Jordi


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## zozo (24 Jul 2015)

Then put some heavy rocks in the box.  because moving water trhough tiny cavities slowly degasses, the gass accumulates in the box and doesn't escape in the suction and under the layer of sludge in the sponshes (top). And one day the bubble will come up floating and only sucking air after that. It happenen to me once, and noticed the pond getting dark, didn't see the thing floating under the floating vegitation.

I lately saw a video from a guy owning a fish store.. He had the most genius idea.. He had a fiber material tube made from a kind of filter mash. It was big enough to fit a little submerseble, only had to make a hole for the pumps outlet. And plug both ends with other filter mesch.. Next to the pump you could put any kind of filter medium with it.

I'll try the find it back.. He did some other suggestions with it as well, forgot... But remember is was very cheap and very sufficient idea for a nice easy to mantain filter. 

Got it..


Didn find these polyester tubes yet, didn't realy  search.. And i guess they come in sizes.


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## parotet (25 Jul 2015)

Funny guy! Is he English? The way he pronounces 'pump' sounds really weird to me... Nice inlet filter by the way.

Jordi


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## zozo (26 Jul 2015)

http://www.pondguru.co.uk/#/pond-videos/4537203355 British i guess.. Some slang..


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## James O (8 Sep 2015)

It's a Geordie accent.


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