# master soli



## peter (24 Sep 2007)

has anyone tried  master soil  and and master gravel  available in italy from  wave  imported from  japan   I suspect similar to ada but cheaper I hope to get some to try  and will report back
peter


----------



## George Farmer (25 Sep 2007)

Never heard of it.

Do you have any links, Peter?

It would be nice to see you reply to one of my posts...


----------



## peter (25 Sep 2007)

hi george 
Iwill be  setting up   a state of the art  high tec planted tank featuring the latest technology based around the  dennerle methods will be using  latest ph contolers and new unsderoil  heatingmethods  together with some new plants from  tropica 
hope to go live  on the pfk website within the next couple of weeks so watch this  space  will appreciate members imput  as we all will learn from   the year long  experiment
peter


----------



## George Farmer (25 Sep 2007)

Hi Peter,

Interesting that you are using pH controllers and substrate heating.

Latest thinking is that these are a waste of money and do very little for plant growth and long-term aquarium health.

Dennerle will tell you different, of course... 

Anyway, I look forward to following the blog on the PFK.


----------



## beeky (26 Sep 2007)

Is this because the controllers sacrifice stable CO2 for a stable pH?

What kind of pH swing occurs in a fully planted tank with CO2 but without a controller (average Kh, say 6)?


----------



## JamesC (26 Sep 2007)

The problems I see with pH controllers are that firstly the CO2 flow rate is set relatively high to make the pH drop. Then when the pH has attained a certain preset value the CO2 is cut off until the pH rises to an inbuilt value a bit higher than the preset value. This start / stop causes CO2 levels to fluctuate which is far from ideal. Secondly even the best pH probes drift slowly which will cause a change in CO2 levels. Thirdly having wood, phosphate or other pH buffering compounds will modify the pH and cause CO2 levels to change. This is most apparant after doing water changes when water parameters change. And lastly but not least if the pH controller were to malfunction then you would be adding loads more CO2 than required due to the higher flow rate. The one area where a pH controller can be handy is as a safety device where you set the controller at a lower level than normally maintained by using a constant bubble rate.

pH change due to gas isn't a problem and I have normally found there is a pH difference of about 0.4 between night and day levels.

James


----------



## peter (28 Sep 2007)

I hear what you say george but have used them in the past  and my own experience shows  a spert in growth about this time of  year when the  undersoil heating  kicks in  also  bulbs  do well  with  some bottom  warmth   you are also converting you  substrate inyo  a huge but slow  biological filter .Ilike proving   exprts  wrong

peter


----------



## peter (28 Sep 2007)

just to give you an  update will have some to test in the next two weeks and will reopt back
peter


----------



## George Farmer (29 Sep 2007)

peter said:
			
		

> I hear what you say george but have used them in the past  and my own experience shows  a spert in growth about this time of  year when the  undersoil heating  kicks in  also  bulbs  do well  with  some bottom  warmth   you are also converting you  substrate inyo  a huge but slow  biological filter .Ilike proving   exprts  wrong
> 
> peter



I hear you too, Peter.

_Proving_ experts wrong is fun isn't it?  But you need controlled experiements to do so.  Tom Barr would have a field day with this thread. 

How can you be sure it is not coincidental that growth is improved with the substrate heating?

Wouldn't the bulbs react anyway to the seasonal change?

My crypts have put on a huge amount of growth recently too, for no apparent reason I can think of.  No substrate heating though.

Isn't the substrate a slow biological filter anyway with no heating?  I'm sure it is.

Food for thought, anyway.

I look forward to the results, thanks for sharing.  Will you be running another blog on the PFK site?


----------



## zig (29 Sep 2007)

Another substrate worth watching out for is a substrate called 'Gex' its similar to ADA Aquasoil in nutrient content but a lot harder, it does not break down to easily, its a clay but it has been fired longer than aquasoil, its getting good reviews on forums in Asia.


----------



## peter (2 Oct 2007)

Hi george 
Iam am going to set up two  identical tanks both same light same water same substate Iwill subdevide  some of the tropica plants into two plants each small tank the  will the same  layout one will have undersoli heating one wont and  we  will see  if there is any difference
peter


----------



## George Farmer (3 Oct 2007)

peter said:
			
		

> Hi george
> Iam am going to set up two  identical tanks both same light same water same substate Iwill subdevide  some of the tropica plants into two plants each small tank the  will the same  layout one will have undersoli heating one wont and  we  will see  if there is any difference
> peter



Sounds great!  What plants will you be using?  Heavy root-feeders may show the biggest difference, if there is one, of course! 

That will make a great feature for PFK and I'm sure the online planted community will be very interested too...


----------



## Moss Man (4 Oct 2007)

peter said:
			
		

> Hi george
> Iam am going to set up two  identical tanks both same light same water same substate Iwill subdevide  some of the tropica plants into two plants each small tank the  will the same  layout one will have undersoli heating one wont and  we  will see  if there is any difference
> peter



It would be very interesting to see this...


----------

