# Marine Nano



## NeilW (6 Apr 2012)

Hey Everyone   

I know this is a bit of a strange topic in a planted tank forum but I know you guys are a great mine of information and have been infinitely helpful in the past.

Inspired from Tom's marine setup I am thinking of setting up a 15 litre nano in the kitchen in addition to my current planted nano (I'm not running away!  ). After some research I am getting my head around the whole marine system and its big differences to freshwater.

I want to do things a bit differently however and use artificial ceramic rock as 1) I can spend more time and be more selective over aquascaping 2) its cheaper and 3) its pest free.

Did any of you guys have any tips on how to get this properly 'seeded'? My current thinking is chuck some live rock rubble in the rear section 'sump'?

Also while I'm here did you have any good pointers/links/useful info for a salty newbie? 

Cheers,
Neil


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## George Farmer (6 Apr 2012)

Hi Neil

The good news is that there's plenty of great info out there on nano reefs, and in particular the info you're after.

The bad news is that there's so much info that it's tough to decide which is good and bad.

Reef Central is a great US-based forum, and the UK equivalent is Ultimate Reef.

Have fun and good luck.

Cheers,
George


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## NeilW (6 Apr 2012)

Just the man George, thanks indeed.   

Really interesting looking at a tank from a different perspective but with the same taste and level of planning I've gained from the planted tank world.


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## George Farmer (6 Apr 2012)

I am certain you will love reef. Very different methodology but I do think that folk that come from a FW aquascaping background have a huge headstart. 90% of reef aquariums I see are frankly horrific from an aesthetic perspective.


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## NeilW (6 Apr 2012)

The main thing I'm getting my head around is that corals are animals not plants, but still seem to have a lot of the same requirements and characteristics of plants. However I don't want to go murderously hacking up corals to propagate them like I would a plant so need to do further research on 'fragging' and how to go about attaching these!



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> 90% of reef aquariums I see are frankly horrific from an aesthetic perspective.


This is what always put me off marine (awful aquascaping in the form of a pile of rocks, gaudy corals and dirty equipment) but after seeing stuff such as Toms nano, the ADA gallery tank and your own planted marine setup is what made me realise that a clean look was actually possible.

Its going to be another big learning curve but looking forward to it


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## Iain Sutherland (7 Apr 2012)

Hi Neal, i have found marine to be very satisfying.  I found nano-reef.com to be extremely useful in all nano aspects.
Costs a few quid but you'll have a blast.


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## Tom (7 Apr 2012)

Hi Neil, Glad you like my tank  I'd be tempted to go for a single coral or a single species in a small nano like that. Look at some of the Euphyllias - really hardy, great colours and movement. You could also keep one of the smaller Clown Gobies or similar. 

It's worth bearing in mind when using ceramic rock that it will take a long, long time before the setup has adequate filtration to become stable. Then if you were to seed it, you lose the "no pests" bonus. 

I recently added some "dead" bleached live rock to my tank to add some more height and room for corals, and after 2-3 months it still looks very out of place. I have just started to see some green algae growth on the otherwise bright white rocks.


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## NeilW (7 Apr 2012)

Some excellent info already, cheers both Iain and Tom.

In a tank that small I was doubtful if any fish would be suitable, but those clown gobies look excellent - I really like the look of the 'green' type. Gobies are also my favourite species of fish. Any other miniature marines that would be OK? For my inverts I was looking at maybe a single boxing crab and a maybe a trio of sexy shrimp? I do like the look of blood shrimp as the colours are amazing but I think they would look massively out of scale.

I do like the idea of a single or two species of coral, it would certainly be a challenge to get looking good in such a small space. I can't find much inspiration as most reefers seem to go for the 'collection' approach. 

Hardscape is going to be the hardest part as most live rock pieces seem to be very rounded and 'lumpish'. I still wouldn't mind using live rock, I was looking at ceramic as it meant I could dry-scape first and be more picky of shapes.


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## hinch (7 Apr 2012)

a 15l nano will be a serious challenge to keep the water stable it is doable though.  the important thing is to forget about external filters etc stuff like that in something that size. use decent quality live rock pre-soaked if you can get it this will provide your filtration and then a little nano powerhead inside the tank. I'd also recommend using live sand to. don't worry about the shape of the live rock just take a hammer to it to make it into the shapes you want. your left over rubble can be used for fragging 

fish wise a clown or a single goby would be fine couple of hermits and snails perhaps a sexy shrimp or 2.

for cycling basically fill it and leave it (no water changes as you would with freshwater) for a few weeks until it settles.  if you have a spare external or hang on though it could be worth while looking at making a fuge with a little diy and some rowaphos to keep the phosphate in control and give you some additional nitrate handling with the macro.

coral wise perhaps a little xenia and some zoa's perhaps a hammer too or you could go with an all zoa setup as there's loads of options for zoa's in some nice colours etc and they're fairly hardy just remember they're poisionous so goggles and gloves when handling them!


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## spyder (7 Apr 2012)

I got inspired to try a nano reef last year and started pricing up gear. For now, it's on the back burner. 1 day maybe I will throw some salt and live rock in my 60l.

Keep us posted on how it goes, I'll look for the journal in the Off Topic /General chit chat forum.


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## Kristoph91 (7 Apr 2012)

I know nothing really about marine, but I remember reading on a forum a while back (when I was thinking about getting into marine) and wondering about the LR and how the mechanics of it all, when I came across a thread about making your own LR with cement, sharp sand and rock salt (the salt will dissolve which makes it porous enough for beneficial bacteria etc) and the guy doing it was curing it by putting it in the cistern after shaping and baking it.

Don't know if any of that helps you at all  but it seemed a bit unorthodox to me so it stuck in my mind.

Good luck with the nano, and if you do start it up, notify us if you're making a journal. I'd like to see a marine and planted tank side by side.

Kris


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## NeilW (7 Apr 2012)

Thanks Hinch. I'm most likely getting the little TMC all-in-one 15 litre system so it will already have a built in powerhead. I will also use the different chemical pads you can get hold of to boost the filtration. Hopefully in addition to live rock and live sand this should be adequate. I know 15 litres will be a challenge but I'm pretty religious with water changes and maintenance and I also intend to have the tank cycling for a fair while before adding any creatures as theres no rush. Needs be I've got an Eheim HOB I can fill with live rock rubble or other media as a mini refugium.



			
				spyder said:
			
		

> I got inspired to try a nano reef last year and started pricing up gear. For now, it's on the back burner. 1 day maybe I will throw some salt and live rock in my 60l.
> 
> Keep us posted on how it goes, I'll look for the journal in the Off Topic /General chit chat forum.


I'm picking up the tank for £50 and collecting the other bits as I go so hopefully it won't be mega expensive. I'll try and keep you posted   



			
				KrisHumphreys1991 said:
			
		

> I know nothing really about marine, but I remember reading on a forum a while back (when I was thinking about getting into marine) and wondering about the LR and how the mechanics of it all, when I came across a thread about making your own LR with cement, sharp sand and rock salt (the salt will dissolve which makes it porous enough for beneficial bacteria etc) and the guy doing it was curing it by putting it in the cistern after shaping and baking it.
> 
> Don't know if any of that helps you at all  but it seemed a bit unorthodox to me so it stuck in my mind.
> 
> ...



Thats exactly the kind of rock I meant except theres a few companies out there now that do the above process for you, so theres no mess, or waiting, or having to buy all the gear to make it   


Cheers again everyone, very much helpful as always


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## Kristoph91 (7 Apr 2012)

Thats handy then  
Glad to help.

Kris


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## hinch (7 Apr 2012)

the ceramics you're on about are called the riffsystem can't remember where they're from.
making your own is a minefield as they can take months to cure and leach phos and other nasties out for months.

i'm using the microhabitat 30 at the moment much easier to keep stable than the 15's the one thing I will say is the standard fixed temp heater is pants, the skimmer while a nice addition isn't brilliant it does function its just not the best skimmer in the world.

standard lighting is pretty pants I replaced it with the kessil (spelling?) one from america but a cheap LED  PAR38 or 30 bulb from ebay in a standard desklight fitting (e27) will be a good replacement too.  

lots of people with the tmc's add additional power heads as the flow isn't brilliant out of the built in back chamber, others in the 30's (don't know if there's enough room in the 15's) replace the standard pump with an uprated one instead of a ph.


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## Morgan Freeman (7 Apr 2012)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> 90% of reef aquariums I see are frankly horrific from an aesthetic perspective.



Understatement!

I think someone should do one of those PAH optiwhite tanks as a mini reef.


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## NeilW (7 Apr 2012)

hinch said:
			
		

> the ceramics you're on about are called the riffsystem can't remember where they're from.
> making your own is a minefield as they can take months to cure and leach phos and other nasties out for months.
> 
> i'm using the microhabitat 30 at the moment much easier to keep stable than the 15's the one thing I will say is the standard fixed temp heater is pants, the skimmer while a nice addition isn't brilliant it does function its just not the best skimmer in the world.



I'm tempted by the 30 but its a lot more money then £50 sadly. It seems superior in many ways including available space to scape with.

I found a couple of companies so far 'Aquaroche' and 'Korallenwelt'. I'm leaning towards live rock as it seems so much better at filtration initially in the first stages (that we all know is crucial).



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> I think someone should do one of those PAH optiwhite tanks as a mini reef.



That would be awesome although would be a lot of effort hiding all the gear that needs to go into a marine setup. An ADA Mini-L would be amazing too.

I just found another diamond in the rough;
http://www.nano-reef.com/featured/?tank=39
Elos no less


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## George Farmer (7 Apr 2012)

Have you seen this, Neil?

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3551


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## Morgan Freeman (7 Apr 2012)

NeilW said:
			
		

> Morgan Freeman said:
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Possibly, you could go skimmer less and use an external hidden behind/below the tank big enough to also house the heater. Enough flow would also eliminate the need for circulation pumps. Hardly any in=tank equipment that way.

I prefer reef tanks with plenty of Zoas, especially when they cover the entire area of live rock. It's not exactly seiru stone!


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## OllieNZ (7 Apr 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> NeilW said:
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It may defeat the purpose of having a nano but why not sump it? more water volume, a place to hide heater skimmer etc and you could use a set of lilly pipes on it  8)


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## Tom (8 Apr 2012)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> I think someone should do one of those PAH optiwhite tanks as a mini reef.


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## malawistu (8 Apr 2012)

iv been thinking about doing this and using my aps 1000lhp external with one of the nano tmc tiles that tank is lovely looking tho


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## Morgan Freeman (8 Apr 2012)

Tom said:
			
		

> Morgan Freeman said:
> 
> 
> 
> > I think someone should do one of those PAH optiwhite tanks as a mini reef.



Someone built that since my suggestion last night? Wow


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## Tom (9 Apr 2012)

Twas mine, before Olympia


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## NeilW (9 Apr 2012)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Have you seen this, Neil?
> 
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3551


That looks great, cheers George. I did remember that from a while back but cant find the PFK with it in, although I do have the issue with the pullout that shows the 30 litre microhabitat setup.



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Possibly, you could go skimmer less and use an external hidden behind/below the tank big enough to also house the heater. Enough flow would also eliminate the need for circulation pumps. Hardly any in=tank equipment that way.
> 
> I prefer reef tanks with plenty of Zoas, especially when they cover the entire area of live rock. It's not exactly seiru stone!





			
				OllieNZ said:
			
		

> It may defeat the purpose of having a nano but why not sump it? more water volume, a place to hide heater skimmer etc and you could use a set of lilly pipes on it  8)


Does this mean that in theory I could move my freshwater setup elsewhere but use the same hardware complete with lilies with a new marine tank in its place? What kind of media is best to put in a marine external? Would lily pipes foul up horribly very quickly? 




			
				Tom said:
			
		

>


That tank looks awesome Tom, nice one. I like the clever use of the Eheim as a hang on sump too. Is that just a T5 clip on light?

Cheers again everyone for your input


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## Morgan Freeman (10 Apr 2012)

Tom said:
			
		

> Twas mine, before Olympia



It's a fantastic tank Tom, you should be proud.


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