# Filter floss before or after bio-media



## walkerx (20 May 2020)

So I have my 407 setup in this way

first bit
Fluval blue foams
Fluval white foams

bottom tray
Fluval black foams
Filter floss

rest of trays
bio-home ultimate

Now I see a lot of debate regarding which way round to put the filter-floss, but I thought this would need to be before the bio-media and not after

Is there any benefit other than preventing a lot of gunk building up on the bio-media


----------



## JoshP12 (20 May 2020)

I would definitely run it before the media. 

You may also consider removing it or only running it sometimes just to polish the water. All depends on what you want/current state of tank/the amount of time you actually have for maintenance etc! 

Cheers,
Josh


----------



## dw1305 (20 May 2020)

Hi all,
I like to have any <"mechanical filtration in the pre-filter">, and even then <"not too fine a sponge">. 





walkerx said:


> Now I see a lot of debate regarding which way round to put the filter-floss





JoshP12 said:


> removing it or only running it sometimes just to polish the water. All depends on what you want/current state of tank/the amount of time you actually have for maintenance etc!


I'm not a fan of floss either, and particularly not in the filter body, where it can be a "_case of out of sight, out of mind_".

It is fine if you swap it out every week, but I'm <"too shoddy and lazy an aquarist"> for that.

I just want <"oxygen and ammonia"> entering the filter, and even then the <"amount of oxygen"> is much more important than the <"filter media"> or the ammonia level.  

cheers Darrel


----------



## walkerx (20 May 2020)

I was debating whether to use just a fine foam after the last coarse or another medium foam initially, but have spare filter floss so used that

I do a water change every week and check the filter every month based on fluval recommedations


----------



## JoshP12 (20 May 2020)

walkerx said:


> I was debating whether to use just a fine foam after the last coarse or another medium foam initially, but have spare filter floss so used that
> 
> I do a water change every week and check the filter every month based on fluval recommendations




I clean my filter with every water change. Maybe I'm nuts, but I used to neglect it and since flushing my filtration and seeing the impact it has on the system - I'm never going back. When I realized how quickly the filter floss got dirty (since I started checking it), I was shocked. 

Cleaning my filter more intensely saved my pH drop at least an hour + I don't need my power head anymore to accommodate the flow in the aquarium. 

I am still learning, but it may be worth removing it for a week (or a day), and seeing what happens, then putting it back -- then can make a decision about what you want. 

Josh


----------



## dw1305 (20 May 2020)

Hi all, 





walkerx said:


> I do a water change every week and check the filter every month based on fluval recommendations


I'd definitely clean the pre-filter a lot more regularly, probably with every water change initially.

Once you've got an idea of how quickly the pre-filter and/or the floss clogs, you can tailor your maintenance routine to that.  Have a look at his link about the <"complete oxidation process">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## walkerx (20 May 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I'd definitely clean the pre-filter a lot more regularly, probably with every water change initially.
> 
> Once you've got an idea of how quickly the pre-filter and/or the floss clogs, you can tailor your maintenance routine to that.  Have a look at his link about the <"complete oxidation process">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


won't that cause extra wear on the o-ring having to keep taking it off to be re-greased? or is it ok to not re-grease everytime?


----------



## dw1305 (20 May 2020)

Hi all,





walkerx said:


> won't that cause extra wear on the o-ring having to keep taking it off to be re-greased? or is it ok to not re-grease every time


You don’t need to re-grease it every time.  I tend to use silicon grease rather than spray,  but I think the spray is fine.

That is partially why I like a big sponge on the filter intake, it reduces the need to open the filter.

Cheers Darrel


----------



## walkerx (20 May 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,You don’t need to re-grease it every time.  I tend to use silicon grease rather than spray,  but I think the spray is fine.
> 
> That is partially why I like a big sponge on the filter intake, it reduces the need to open the filter.
> 
> Cheers Darrel


I got small tube of the aqua one stuff 

I did try a sponge on the filter intake but it was a cheap one from mini sponge filter and it didn't work and was getting sucked into the intake pipe so took it off


----------



## dw1305 (21 May 2020)

Hi all, 





walkerx said:


> I did try a sponge on the filter intake but it was a cheap one from mini sponge filter and it didn't work and was getting sucked into the intake pipe so took it off


I use <"really big sponges">, but I'm too <"bothered about aesthetics"> and I have really weedy tanks, so they aren't that obvious.

<"Eheim sell an ugly one">, but I mainly use the ones they sell for <"Koi systems">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## walkerx (21 May 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I use <"really big sponges">, but I'm too <"bothered about aesthetics"> and I have really weedy tanks, so they aren't that obvious.
> 
> <"Eheim sell an ugly one">, but I mainly use the ones they sell for <"Koi systems">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I've seen that eheim one, but wasn't sure if it would fit  the 407 piping and when I ask fluval if they sold any, they said nope and don't recommend, but then they did say that the 407 wouldn't fit on my tank


----------



## dw1305 (21 May 2020)

Hi all,





walkerx said:


> I've seen that eheim one, but wasn't sure if it would fit the 407 piping


I'm not sure,  I never owned a Fluval filter, but I think they have ribbed hoses, so you might need to swap that for a smooth 16/22 hose. @ian_m ? @Zeus. ?

Fluval and Oase have gone down the route of putting the pre-filter inside the filter, but with a separate "easy access" for cleaning. This has the advantage of getting equipment out of the tank, but is a separate series of seals etc. 

Personally I'm willing to trade having pre-filter (and heater) in the tank  for the least complexity possible in the filter. 

I'm a luddite, I don't want electronics, prime buttons etc. in my filters, I want them to fulfill their basic requirement of being <"a pump in a bucket">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus. (21 May 2020)

I quite like the ribbed hoses as you can get them round tight bends without kinking the pipes, which is handy with hooded tank





Open top tank I would use lily pipes and smooth tubing


----------



## walkerx (21 May 2020)

This my tank setup, my fluval pipes are on the side as filter in front of tank and can't get to the back (plus they won't fit over back due to euro-brace) - i have a cheap sponge filter at other side. plants slowly getting better just need to sort out as keep getting pulled out by the fish, but overall finally happy with the layout - just want to get a bigger tank if I can fully persuade the wife to let me


----------



## Millns84 (22 May 2020)

I've been experimenting with sponges/floss for a while and I've got to a point where the floss lasts around 6 weeks in my Fx6 and 8 weeks in my other canisters. 

I say experiment because I had the thought to gradually mechanically filter the water, so by the time the water reaches the floss, there's much less particles to clogg it. 

I'm running a 10ppi sponge on the inlet, 30ppi then 45ppi sponges around the trays, a Fluval max clean pad, coarse JBL floss then standard floss... I don't think 6 weeks is too bad for a such a high flowing filter. 

What I see is different amounts/types of detritus on each grade of sponge, which shows that they're all doing their own part. I reckon if I removed the 45ppi sponge and max clean pads, the floss would last a couple of weeks at most.


----------

