# Clown loach deaths ?



## ian_m (21 Jan 2014)

Two of my Clown Loaches (out of 3) have recently just died, about a week apart. One was found dead Fri 17th Jan and other Mon 20th Jan. Both were 10-15cm long. On water change day Sunday 19th Jan the two remaining loaches appeared to be OK.

No sign of white spot on them or other fish. No sign of disease either, just dead. No change of water parameters or major plant chopping that might have released toxins either.

Any thoughts or just bad luck ?


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## GHNelson (21 Jan 2014)

Strange they meet their demise after a water change...this could be the clue.
My municipal water company have a habit of overdosing chemicals...you can actually smell the product they use.....smells like Chlorine.
That maybe your answer.
hoggie


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## roadmaster (21 Jan 2014)

Need more info .
Water parameter's ,maint routine,food's,temp's,filtration,tank size.
Those I have kept and that grow to the size you mention, generally do quite well.
I keep them in oxygen rich water, with lot's of water movement.
Large weekly water changes.variety of food's.Chopped earthworm's,krill,shrimp pellet's,new life spectrum pellet's,meal worm's.


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## ian_m (21 Jan 2014)

hogan53 said:


> ...you can actually smell the product they use.....smells like Chlorine


Water change, with dechlorinator, before first death was the Saturday. Water change on Sunday had dechlorinator, so hopefully not a chlorine issue. All other fish appear OK.

CO2 was high, drop checker was nicely green. Have seen the loaches (and other fish) have trouble when CO2 was very high ie yellow drop checker. But no sign of other fish having CO2 issues.


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## GHNelson (21 Jan 2014)

Hi Ian
That rules out the overdosing of chemicals.
hoggie


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (21 Jan 2014)

I personally thought about co2 levels straight away given there position in the tank. Did you notice any changes in water hardness? Any chance it's a lot softer than normal?


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## Andy Thurston (21 Jan 2014)

High light and stress caused by the small numbers and light. Probably a combination of all three and something nasty in the water. Maybe an internal parasite. Quite strange because clown loaches are quite hardy once settled in an aquarium.
Have they been dancing recently this can indicate stress with younger clowns


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## ian_m (21 Jan 2014)

Big clown said:


> Have they been dancing recently this can indicate stress with younger clowns


Seemed OK, last time I saw them parading around choosing which plants to either attack or lie under..


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## kirk (21 Jan 2014)

Sorry to hear Of your loss they are such characters. May sound daft but its been chilly lately is your heafter coming on I have no idea how sensitive they are its just an idea. Was your water room temp on change day. ?


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## ian_m (21 Jan 2014)

Water temp just now is 26'C. I have run for weeks before, with these loaches, where I forgot to turn heater back on after water change and tank temp was 19'C  when I noticed.

My water is heated before going into the tank. Look for my water heater butt in DIY section.

Remaining loach is currently lounging on his side under my rock cave I made them. Looked fine as he zipped away when I approached.


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## kirk (21 Jan 2014)

Well I'm lost now them other that The two that have past away were female and Of a night the one left is a bit of a stud and he's worn them out,thinking about it it could be the other way round.  ........I'll get my coat.


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## Andy Thurston (21 Jan 2014)

Other than pecking order disputes gone bad and things in my previous post i'm a bit stuck
My best guess would be a combination been kept in a small group and something small that tipped them over the edge. I don't think the light would be a problem because they will sit under plants etc before lights on. their smart, like that, mine come out about 2hours before feeding and disappear  into their caves 2 hours before lights on. 
If deaths happened overnight my first thought would be low o2 levels followed by co2


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## arhino (21 Jan 2014)

I lost 3 in a couple of daysa while back, I had just cleaned my filters till they were like new   and added a few fish around the same time.


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## ian_m (22 Jan 2014)

Did rinse the coarse foam in both filters in tank water as I would normally do each week, to remove coarse muck and odd leaves. Didn't notice other fish having issues.

I feel it was probably my fault as I trimmed my anubias, slightly more than normal. There were some leaves starting with slight BBA I removed and cut some roots that were starting to bury in my substrate. I am sure I read somewhere don't over trim Anubias as can release toxins which can affect some fish, loaches in particular. Can't find the reference at all now. Mind you the anubias trim wasn't much different than I have done before.

The remaining loach is fine, still swimming around...looking for his/her mates...might have to give it away as they like to be in groups.


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## roadmaster (22 Jan 2014)

High CO2 level's that maybe fluctuated past comfort zone during or after water change.
If water change took place before light's on ,CO2 on for the day,then perhap's CO2 was too much for brief period at daylight when CO2 also ramped up, when and if one accept's that tapwater contain's CO2 also.
If water change took place while CO2 was also being dispersed rather than before,,,then perhap's sudden increase had negative effect on fishes.
Lot's of folk's accidentally gas their fish while trying to maintain max CO2 level's for benefit of plant's.


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## Andy D (22 Jan 2014)

I am not sure how accurate the whole toxic Anubias is. It was being bandied around a lot with regards to shrimp death but I think the general consensus from those that keep shrimp with Anubias (such as myself) is that it does not harm shrimp. One guy even blended a few plants and put it into his shrimp tank to prove a point and his shrimp were fine.

I have not read anything to say it is toxic to fish either.


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## Andy Thurston (22 Jan 2014)

Im sure emma turners article on loaches suggests anubias and java fern for clown tanks but they dont last very long


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## dw1305 (22 Jan 2014)

Hi all,
Bad luck, I'd always suspect low oxygen levels when rheophilic fish die.

It maybe a perfect storm of "emergency" chloramine in the water change water, combined with  the filter clean, larger fish (gill area increases as a ~square (it is more than a square really as gills are somewhere in between being 2 - 3 dimensional) and body volume as a cube) and less plant mass. Any CO2 addition is another factor, it makes it more difficult for the haemoglobin to shed a CO2 molecule, because until the CO2 diffuses out of the blood it can't pick up an O2 molecule. This is the (Bohr) Root effect described here: < Fish Respiration>. 

After the big freeze & thaw in 2010/11 we had a spate of unexplained "L. number" deaths, which I think were attributable to chloramine dosing in compromised water mains. 

cheers Darrel


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