# Sub Substrate



## Carpman (4 Nov 2018)

Looking for a good cost effective sub-substrate, the below image is holding approx 30 litre's of soil with 10 bags of 6"x 3" slate making a lot of soil. I have got 25kg of play sand but can't bag it as it is to fine, in turn, makes it useless for holding large stones in place as there is no friction. I have slate but that is probably too coarse for the main tank, I have read about cat litter (non-fragranced) and pea shingle in media bags can do the job.

So I'm wondering what others are using for building up their mounds/slopes?


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## goldscapes (4 Nov 2018)

Funnily enough I was just looking at cat litter in my local supermarket of the two types they had one was lime based and the other had some kind of “active ingredient”. As I understand it (and always happy to be proved wrong) lime is bad as it will increase hardness and “active ingredients” are likely to be antibacterial so also bad for a multitude of reasons. 

@zozo gave a good suggestion on another thread relating to what media to use for emersed planters:


zozo said:


> You can use a lot, but something inert and porous would be best. Check out Alfagrog for example. But Seramis clay granulate or Hydro clay pebbles can do as well and might be more readily available at any garden centre than Alfagrog.



I’d also add Lava Rock gravel to the list but probably will settle for whatever my local garden centre has in stock.

I believe ADA Power Sand is pumice based.

I did consider using horticultural potting grit but as I was cleaning some I spotted a green looking stone and in case it was some kind of copper I decided against it (bad for Shrimp).

As an alternative approach I have seen people on here using driveway reinforcing tiles (the kind you fill with gravel or grass) these are useful if you need to build a lot of height and as a bonus the ones being used didn’t float.

Great question, I look forward to hearing some other replies!


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Nov 2018)

Alfagrog in media bags works a treat.


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## Carpman (4 Nov 2018)

davexcape said:


> Funnily enough I was just looking at cat litter in my local supermarket of the two types they had one was lime based and the other had some kind of “active ingredient”. As I understand it (and always happy to be proved wrong) lime is bad as it will increase hardness and “active ingredients” are likely to be antibacterial so also bad for a multitude of reasons.
> @zozo gave a good suggestion on another thread relating to what media to use for emersed planters:
> I’d also add Lava Rock gravel to the list but probably will settle for whatever my local garden centre has in stock.
> I believe ADA Power Sand is pumice based.
> Great question, I look forward to hearing some other replies!



I did look at ADA power sand until I saw the price (amazon 2ltr £24) no thanks.
Lava rock is also quite expensive if you look in aquarium shops/stockists but again on amazon 9kg £16.39 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0716BG...locphy=9045880&hvtargid=pla-423436117857&th=1

I mentioned cat litter because I read it somewhere here by a moderator I think here what was suggested 
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/262681114


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## goldscapes (4 Nov 2018)

It seems not all cat litter is created equal then! My local Tesco didn’t have any in stock though 

I might split the difference and go with some clay granulate, 10L for £6.53 delivered. At least it’s designed with growing plants in mind and I can use what’s left over in emersed planters.


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## Carpman (5 Nov 2018)

Just ordered 45l of clay pebbles for £16 on Amazon and they will be here tomorrow. Cheers @davexcape & @zozo


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## Konsa (5 Nov 2018)

Hi Carpman
Hope is not fired clay (Hydroleca)as is very porous and light it may start floating.
Alternative is Danish pink (moler clay) and others from bozai soil strains
https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/bonsai-soil/bonsai-growing-media-straights
Just few examples.They can be sourced cheaply probably.
Regards Konsa


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## goldscapes (5 Nov 2018)

Carpman said:


> Just ordered 45l of clay pebbles for £16 on Amazon and they will be here tomorrow. Cheers @davexcape & @zozo



I think you did the right thing, I drove the 10 mile round trip to Tesco’s but the had run out of stock  at 45p a mile it would have been cheaper to order the clay pebbles and they would have been here this evening!

Guess I’ll have to settle for the horticultural grit in the shed instead - I’m only scraping a nano cube so won’t need to worry about the weight as much as you.

Good luck with the scape, I’m no expert but the latest version is a massive improvement IMHO


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## Carpman (5 Nov 2018)

Konsa said:


> Hi Carpman
> Hope is not fired clay (Hydroleca)as is very porous and light it may start floating.
> Alternative is Danish pink (moler clay) and others from bozai soil strains
> https://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/bonsai-soil/bonsai-growing-media-straights
> ...



Just looked through description and low and behold they are baked the only good thing is, I can return without any problems to Amazon. this is what I ordered.https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...84d-8286a3530ba1&pf_rd_r=MT1VD9E133PVJW5NFAS2


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## Konsa (5 Nov 2018)

Hi
yes I thought about the same stuff.Its just too porous and holds lots of air in it.It has consistency a bit like lava rock so not going to take much water in it I suspect.Darrel I think is( was) using it as filter media
Maybe he can chip in if it is going to saturate in water and not float.
Regards Konsa


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## Carpman (6 Nov 2018)

I knew I should have gone with the alfagrog.... Sorry @lain Sutherland


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## Rayavidas (6 May 2019)

Looks amazing great job!!!


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## Iain Sutherland (7 May 2019)

Carpman said:


> I knew I should have gone with the alfagrog.... Sorry @lain Sutherland


No worries... I can confirm that the hydroleac clay balls never sink... past experience! Live and learn...

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