# Taiwan bee water parameters.



## MARKCOUSINS

Hi guys,I have my tank set up almost 5 weeks now and was wanting to introduce some Taiwan bee F1.Water parameters are PH 6.5 GH 7 KH 0 TDS 150,Temperature is 24 degreesC.What do these values look like?Cheers Mark


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## Iain Sutherland

Ideal really, breeding temp range is 21-24 so your at the top end, if you can bring it down slightly then do.  Look forward to seeing them mark. 


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## MARKCOUSINS

Thanks Iain!I will try and get hold of an adjustable heater,the one i have is a fixed temperature Dennerle nano which seems to run at 24 allways.Cheers Mark.


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## OllieNZ

MARKCOUSINS said:


> Thanks Iain!I will try and get hold of an adjustable heater,the one i have is a fixed temperature Dennerle nano which seems to run at 24 allways.Cheers Mark.


Have you tried no heater? My unheated shrimp tank sits around 21deg.


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## MARKCOUSINS

Good idea Ollie,i unplugged it about an hour ago and will have a look at what happens with the temperature.Problem is it's my daughter's bedroom so the window gets opened in the morning for a bit.But for the moment it's off there is nothing in the tank apart from moss and java fern so no probs Cheers Mark


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## Alastair

MARKCOUSINS said:


> Thanks Iain!I will try and get hold of an adjustable heater,the one i have is a fixed temperature Dennerle nano which seems to run at 24 allways.Cheers Mark.



What size tank is it mark? ? Ive an adjustable nano heater. Well 3 actually. 25 watt and 50 watt. All around 12cm


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## MARKCOUSINS

Alastair said:


> What size tank is it mark? ? Ive an adjustable nano heater. Well 3 actually. 25 watt and 50 watt. All around 12cm


It's only 20L Alastair problem is I live in Italy.Very kind offer though thanks.Cheers Mark


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## Alastair

Oh ha yeah nevermind then.


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## Graham01

Your GH is to high GH 5 would be ideal GH 6 at the most lower your tds to about 115 to 120 that should hopefully get your GH at a better level
Everything else is perfect


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## MARKCOUSINS

Graham01 said:


> Your GH is to high GH 5 would be ideal GH 6 at the most lower your tds to about 115 to 120 that should hopefully get your GH at a better level
> Everything else is perfect


Actually did a water change earlier and the GH is now 6 TDS 140ish


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## MARKCOUSINS

OllieNZ said:


> Have you tried no heater? My unheated shrimp tank sits around 21deg.


I gave it a go unfortunately the temp dropped to 18degreesC.So will be getting a small adjustable heater 25watt,found one for a good price it will arrive with the shrimp next week(hopefully).So i can keep the temperature at 22ish


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## Dane

GH is fine. Just measure TDS and keep it between 150-200. Don't stress about temp either, all mine are kept at room temp. Just keep an eye on nitrates.


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## Iain Sutherland

Hey Dane, congrats on breeders and keepers article, good read and nice to see the uk being represented! 



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## Dane

Thanks!


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## MARKCOUSINS

Dropbox - 2014-02-18 23.25.24.jpg


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## MARKCOUSINS

Wednesday my shrimp will come!Fingers crossed


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## Dane

good looking tank. Looks like red bee sand?


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## MARKCOUSINS

Dane said:


> GH is fine. Just measure TDS and keep it between 150-200. Don't stress about temp either, all mine are kept at room temp. Just keep an eye on nitrates.


Thanks very much Dane for the adviceThe guy who is sending me the TB hybrids says he keeps them at about 350/380 microsimens.Not to sure as to what this means at a TDS measurement,did read that 1ppm TDS = 1.56 not too sure if it's reliable.Current is 148 TDS in the tank i see you recommended 150-200.I could up it a bit but was a bit worried about increasing GH too.
As for temperature i have an ugly heater in keeping it at a steady 22 degreesC new one should come Wednesday with the TB's.
Cheers Mark


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## MARKCOUSINS

Dane said:


> good looking tank. Looks like red bee sand?


Good eyes Dane


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## MARKCOUSINS

I currently have 2 mini Dennerle internals running in the tank(in the photo there is only one).One with spraybar above the surface cascading into the tank from 2cm aprox.Good or bad?Should i run them both or just one when the shrimp come?Cheers Mark


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## Dane

TDS is fine. If they are hybrids then they will be pretty hardy anyway. Once they start giving you some TB offspring then you may need to worry about extra filter capacity for bacteria and extra oxygen. Like i said though, being bred from hybrids will make them hardier.

If you start breeding TB with TB to improve quality then extra filtration and oxygen is a must.


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## MARKCOUSINS

Dane said:


> TDS is fine. If they are hybrids then they will be pretty hardy anyway. Once they start giving you some TB offspring then you may need to worry about extra filter capacity for bacteria and extra oxygen. Like i said though, being bred from hybrids will make them hardier.
> 
> If you start breeding TB with TB to improve quality then extra filtration and oxygen is a must.


Thanks for comments Dane.I think i am going to leave the 2nd internal running it gives better tank turnover and with 1 spray bar above the surface the tank is full of tiny bubbles.Can't be a bad thing can it?Cheers Mark


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## MARKCOUSINS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sykv3m90972ny7j/2014-02-28 23.31.00.jpg
Here is a photo with both small internal filters going one spray bar just above the surface and lots of micro bubbles.


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## Graham01

MARKCOUSINS said:


> Thanks very much Dane for the adviceThe guy who is sending me the TB hybrids says he keeps them at about 350/380 microsimens.Not to sure as to what this means at a TDS measurement,did read that 1ppm TDS = 1.56 not too sure if it's reliable.Current is 148 TDS in the tank i see you recommended 150-200.I could up it a bit but was a bit worried about increasing GH too.
> As for temperature i have an ugly heater in keeping it at a steady 22 degreesC new one should come Wednesday with the TB's.
> Cheers Mark



If you raise the tds your gh will be far too high if you go near the 200 mark & your gh will be about 9 if it was reading gh 7 at tds 150


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## Lindy

I have to use mosura tds 'up' yo get my tds up without raising gh. At gh 5 my tds is around 110. 

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## MARKCOUSINS

Graham01 said:


> If you raise the tds your gh will be far too high if you go near the 200 mark & your gh will be about 9 if it was reading gh 7 at tds 150


Hi Graham i was not intending to raise the TDS but was intrested to know what people think a reading of 350/380 microsimens could relate to as an aproximate TDS.Tomorow i will do a small WC and bit of filter maintenance without cleaning the media.I have decided to leave both filters running when the shrimp come for better aeration and water quality also leaving the Purigen in,What do you think Graham?
What post what the parameters are when i have done the WC.Cheers Mark


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## MARKCOUSINS

ldcgroomer said:


> I have to use mosura tds 'up' yo get my tds up without raising gh. At gh 5 my tds is around 110.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


Hi Lindy,is that your normal parameters in your tank(GH 5 TDS 110)?
I allways thought GH5 was the lowest you should have the GH or there would be moulting problems.I am probably wrong,it is intresting though to see how people can succesfully keep(and breed)TB's at different parameters.
Can't wait for my shrimp to come
Cheers Mark


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## Lindy

Gh5 tds 160

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## Lindy

I thought 5 or 6 was recommended.?

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## MARKCOUSINS

ldcgroomer said:


> I thought 5 or 6 was recommended.?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I think it is.From what i have heard it's to not let it drop below 5.


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## Graham01

Gh 5 is perfect for TB's 6 is ok but any higher you will be very lucky to bred or raise any shrimp
Any lower than gh 4 you are right in thinking it will cause moulting issues


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## Dane

To be honest i have found that GH can vary drastically depending on the aquarium, its all about finding the right balance. As we know, you can set up two identical aquariums but both would have a completely different ecosystem.

Start with your GH how it is and raise it if you have any problems. I have a Blue Bolt tank where TDS is around 350, any lower than that and i have poor survival rate of babies. Another tank containing King Kong has a TDS of 120. All tanks are different as are shrimp. TDS/GH guidlines should be used as just that, guidance.


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## MARKCOUSINS

Did a water change today and the tank is now PH 6.3ish GH 6 TDS 148 so i think that is hopefully a good starting point.I hope!Cheers Mark


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## Graham01

Very good the main thing now is to keep the water parameters stable your shrimp will happily breed in these water conditions


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## Vic

Hello mark where did you buy your Taiwan f1 from? I'm trying to find a reasonable price for a batch. My tank start cycling this weekend


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## Vic

Would akadama be a good substrate or any black substrate type ebi gold is better for taiwan bees?


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## MARKCOUSINS

Vic said:


> Hello mark where did you buy your Taiwan f1 from? I'm trying to find a reasonable price for a batch. My tank start cycling this weekend


Hi Vic i think someone mentioned Basil as regards getting Taiwan F1 in another thread,that's a good idea.There are also other members keeping Taiwan bees as well that might have some surplus.I would not be of much help as i live in Italy and had a hell of a job getting hold of any.I have now managed to get some and put them in late on thursday.They have settled in nicelyAnd i am well chuffed with themI will try and get a few pics up soon!Cheers Mark.


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## MARKCOUSINS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zekls83yyqkbg9/2014-03-07 19.53.00.jpg
A few of my new shrimp


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## Jafooli

Nice shrimp Mark. 
Good luck with them!


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## MARKCOUSINS

Thanks a lot they have settled in very well i am very pleased with the quality for what i paid for them


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## MARKCOUSINS

Vic said:


> Would akadama be a good substrate or any black substrate type ebi gold is better for taiwan bees?


I would prefer the ebi black substrate myself.I found it difficult to get hold of in Italy so i used Shirakura red bee sand instead.But i know most of the members on our forum plump fo the ebi substrate.Cheers Mark.


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## Dane

MARKCOUSINS said:


> Hi Vic i think someone mentioned Basil as regards getting Taiwan F1 in another thread,that's a good idea.There are also other members keeping Taiwan bees as well that might have some surplus.I would not be of much help as i live in Italy and had a hell of a job getting hold of any.I have now managed to get some and put them in late on thursday.They have settled in nicelyAnd i am well chuffed with themI will try and get a few pics up soon!Cheers Mark.



+ 1 on that recommendation. UK bred shrimp from a guy who knows what he's doing


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## Vic

Very nice indeed! I'm just cycling my tank and as I used ada amazonia it will take a bit more work. Thanks for the input.


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## Vic

Hello Dane ! 
What salts are u using to re-mineralise the water? According to your experience are blue bolts always better at that TDS level or is just only in your set up and in other tanks they could breed with high survival rate at lower TDS ?


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## Dane

I always use Salty Shrimp GH+, readily available, cheap and does the job perfectly. Freshwater Shrimp (ukaps sponsor) sells it.

No, blue bolts are not always best at that level! I was just trying to explain not to be too caught up and panicky over TDS. Aim for a TDS of 150 and take it from there. Most my other tanks with king kong, red ruby etc have a much lower TDS. I have a couple tanks with blue bolt and they vary massively. It all depends on genetics.

The most important parameter to keep an eye on is nitrates!

If you get your shrimp from a UK breeder then they will have a good understanding of their shrimp and the requirements. Any breeder will be happy to tell you what water parameters they keep their shrimp in if your buying some from them. If its your first time keeping this variety of shrimp then i suggest buying some hybrids (f1 generation) These shrimp will look like normal CRS/CBS but carry the 'taiwan' gene. Once they start breeding you will see some taiwan babies. Doing it this way the taiwans will adapt much better because they will be born in your tank with your parameters. Hybrids are also much cheaper so your not losing a fortune if things go wrong.

two ukaps members, basil and madlan both have UK bred hybrids and taiwans. If your on facebook try and find Amie Shrimp (tommy) also.


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## Vic

Hello Dane, 

thank you so much for such a complete response.  I'm just chatting with my Spanish friends using ada amazonia squa soil just to get an input on how to fast cycle this substrate that is very good but at initial stages leach ammonia. 

Again, thanks a lot for your reply
Vic


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## MARKCOUSINS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qj5xjukqy6ea2du/2014-03-06 21.28.47.jpg
One my favourite red hybrids


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## Vic

Beautiful indeed !!.


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## Vic

How many f1 you bought to start?


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## MARKCOUSINS

I bought 12.Did not know but the guy sent me 6 red hybrids and 6 black hybrids which is quite nice.All of them are pretty young shrimp which he said would be easier to aclimatise,which makes sense.He breed them himself so he gave me some infomation about how he kept them which helps too


Vic said:


> How many f1 you bought to start?


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## Vic

Yes, that the amount am looking for about.. Once my tank is cycled


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## Graham01

Nice pics & set up Mark nice deep substrate as well perfect for your shrimp
Hope you get some nice TB from the F1 shrimp


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## MARKCOUSINS

Graham01 said:


> Nice pics & set up Mark nice deep substrate as well perfect for your shrimp
> Hope you get some nice TB from the F1 shrimp


Thanks GrahamI am very pleased with everything up till now,all the shrimp are looking healthy and behaving normaly.A lot better than my first attempt at a RCS tank was thanks to good advice from guys on hereAnd good shrimp from a honest supplier.Cheers Mark


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## MARKCOUSINS

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s54w3cbvbasb1r4/2014-03-15 14.26.53.jpg
Some of the shrimp getting stuck in to a mullberry leaf.


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