# Power head, type and position...



## JAX3000 (14 Dec 2015)

Hi,

I have a couple of specific concerns and I'd appreciate your help chosing and positioning a new power head.

Current set up
- Tank: 110 x 55 x 60 (340 litres)
- 2 x Eheim Professional 3 (600) 2075 filters (rated at 1250 LPH each) with original media
- 2 x spray bars at top rear, facing to front, each extended by 1 extra piece, so now there's a small gap either end and smaller gap at the centre, otherwise the spray bars almost reach across the whole rear.
- Fire extinguisher injected Co2 via 2 x UP inline atomisers running off a splitter






Now, I did have a 1850 LPH cheapo APS power head pointing across the back, right to left, but I've switched that off, as it always slid down the glass a few inches between water changes and I got scared it might slide down to the bottom and pick up the sand and planting substrate beneath it. I would also rather have it pointing rear to front, but it was too fearce and I think it'd push sand away from the front glass...

So here's my question.
What power head would be good and where should I put it.

My 2 concerns are these.
1) I have a large piece of wood in the way...! See pic
2) I have no "edge" to hang the power head to on the rear glass due to the tank design with glass covers and brace sections etc.

I think a power head with a spray bar set dead centre, just below the other spray bars would be good, but I don't know where to start and it MUST be self supporting if that makes sense....?

Thanks guys... 



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## JAX3000 (14 Dec 2015)

Or would 2 of something like this, one just under each of the spray bars be better? Just to turbo boost the flow from the spray bars..?

http://charterhouse-aquatics.com/sh...r-koralia-nano-evolution-900-circulation-pump

I'd say 600 LPH each? Do they make them that slow?

Cheeeeeeers!! 

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## aaron.c (14 Dec 2015)

I tried that Jax - I found the power heads actually caused problems with the CO2 flow.  It hits the front of the glass and creates a vortex that stops the CO2 getting to the bottom of the tank.  The spray bar works better on it's own.

Of course it might not be the case in your tank.


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## James O (14 Dec 2015)

Spray bars are great for a general mix but when you have large pieces of hard scape they fall down.  Amano never uses them after all.....

Maybe try putting both outlets in the rear right.  The speed should be enough to mix the entire tank.  It'll probably be a little brutal, in which case try out some lily pipes

The best suggestion is play around with it until you see the plants are growing well. Dont be tempted move it around too quickly though as you need to see how well your plants are growing first


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## EnderUK (15 Dec 2015)

I have the 900 Hydor in my 125 and it's a great powerhead. One issue is if the plants fgrow and reach it it wil suck them in and they will stick to the outer walls. So keep the plants around the hydor trimmed. I would stick it about halfway down in the in the left back corner point across and to the forward to the bottomright front corner, (sorry pictures were not uploading). If the plants start getting sucked in then move it slightly. The normal power heads are a little better at not sucking in plants since they usually have an intake but you don't have the directional control of the hydor.


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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

Aaron, I guess that kind of makes sense now I think about it... I won't do that then, thanks.

James, your suggestion makes sense too, but my concern is I need to drive Co2 down 2 feet, so the whirlpool effect leads me to thinking the lower levels may still miss out, but this is definitely an option, thank you.

Ender, I must say I like this idea very much. I know the current spray bar set up "works" as I see bubbles after a water change rising and being pushed back down and things like brine shrimp and blood worms do spiral down, there just isn't enough flow for it to quite do the job. I just want to boost it, but keep the flow pointing downwards. I'd say a Hydor or similar pointing across and down should achieve that...

My concern with putting it in the left rear corner is I plan a big mop of stems there, so they might get sucked in... What if it was at the top front of the right wall pointing to left bottom front? The right wall is in the corner of the room, so not very visible, there are also no tall plants there.

Or what if I put it directly between the spray bars, dead centre at the top on the back wall facing front...? Or is this just going back to what Aaron said?

Thanks guys, I'm very grateful for you input.

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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

.


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## EnderUK (16 Dec 2015)

JAX3000 said:


> Or what if I put it directly between the spray bars, dead centre at the top on the back wall facing front...? Or is this just going back to what Aaron said?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk



Do the above. Sorry thought I saw the spray bar on th right hand side.


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## aaron.c (16 Dec 2015)

Dead centre might work - give it a try and keep an on eye on where the co2 bubbles end up 


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## James O (16 Dec 2015)

JAX3000 said:


> James, your suggestion makes sense too, but my concern is I need to drive Co2 down 2 feet, so the whirlpool effect leads me to thinking the lower levels may still miss out, but this is definitely an option, thank you.



Sorry, meant to add 'angle the jets diagonally so they hit the front glass at different places'.  When the jet hits the glass it will explode in all directions but because it is an oblique angle it shouldn't mess up your substrate too much.


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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

Thanks again... James, I see what you mean. Think of the wood as a dog (it looks like one to me) the "dog's head" would break up any jets before they hit the front glass, so I don't think it'd work that way, but I could go from left rear. Remove the pray bars, point both outlets the the front (I'm sure you can buy little directional heads from Eheim to do this in a controlled way) and then I could use the little Hydor to add to this. I could even put it on the left wall, top front pointing to bottom front right, to add to the downward spiral. This is still plan B however.

In the name of consistency and simplicity I think plan A is leave everything as it is and add a blower directly between the spray bars dead centre. I can then play with it if this doesn't do the job.

Now, bearing in mind I have the 2 eheim rated at 1250 LPH (but they're full of substrate at the top of a 60cm tank) and that the tank is 55 cm deep (front to back) would the Hydor 1600 be over kill and push all my sand back off the front wall, or would the 900 be too week, or is there a better option I haven't considered in terms of which unit to buy? Re cost, let's say sod it, it's a xmas prezzie to myself and I'm more concerned with getting it right...  and it must be physically small... 

Thank you all... I'm really getting somewhere here. This is a big part of a major shake up I'm having and you've been so helpful!

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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

I meant the filters are full of media! Not Substrate...! Hahaha 

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## James O (16 Dec 2015)

What media is in your filters?  You might be able to up the flow with no loss in filtration.

Also you're not looking for a washing machine.  Just a gentle mix so there's no need to go mad. I think you could achieve this with the two filters.


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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

I have the 2 identical filters set up as they came.

Course filter pad first, followed by (from bottom to top)
Mech Pro
Mech Pro
Bio Mech
Substrat Pro
Fine Filter pad





All original Eheim media except the foam pads, which are Ebayed copies, which seem to be identical to the originals. I regularly rinse everything in conditioned water and empty the canisters and I rinse the course pad and rinse / replace the fine pad, depending on gunkyness...

The tank's 340 litre, so I recon I must have about 300 litres of water in there. Even if the filters were working at listed flow rate of 1200 LPH I'd be way short of the 10 x standard everybody states. My other concern (full of concerns aren't I..?!) is that tree in the way...! To get over and around that lump of wood and deliver movement to all corners of the tank with a low flow rate is tricky.

I did have an 1850 LPH rated powerhead in there and all the fish seemed happy, in fact some loved it, but it was too much really.

Maybe if I add the little 900..? I'd be very interested in how to increase flow without reducing filtration though....... 


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## James O (16 Dec 2015)

First off, all that media is killing your flow.  

The polishing pads can go, unless you have large amounts of particulate matter in the water column.  They REALLY strangle the flow.

The rest is questionable.  All bacteria require is a surface area.  They don't give a monkeys about fancy names and claims.  Clive had tried Lego, little green army figures etc, all with no issues or loss of filtration.  Many run nothing but plastic pot scrubbers.  Plenty of surface area, very cheap and great flow.  Try them out.  For a £5er you could transform your tank.

As for the 10x thing.  Think of it as the EI of flow.  It's an estimate.  You can get it right at 5x and completely screw it up with 10x  it's tank dependant.  

Your plant growth is the only measure that matters.


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## JAX3000 (16 Dec 2015)

Oh wow! That seems drastic for me... I do seem to have lots of little particles flying about and I have lots of little white dots settling on everything that I can't identify except as potentially just "bits", so I can't imagine with no fine pad what the water would look like. Plastic pot scrubbers look like a nice idea, but I'd feel very odd about pulling out too much of the original media.
So, what would you swap for what?

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## EnderUK (17 Dec 2015)

Healthy Plants > Media,


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## JAX3000 (17 Dec 2015)

Ok, I get it... Thank you. I'll do some more research on this topic. Very interesting and I hadn't even THOUGHT of it before. It makes too much sense for me to ignore the fact that I'm massively over filtered and I'm strangling the flow rate out of my filters... I'll probably still add a little with a small pump, but better flow from the filters will help more, cause that's where the Co2 is right...?! I'm sure there are some great threads on here to help me make a start.
Cheers chaps 
Or chappeses... you never know I guess... 

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## James O (17 Dec 2015)

http://ukaps.org/forum/threads/bio-media-for-fluval-305.29612/

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/what-how-much-media-for-best-flow-and-filtration.34180/page-2

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/filter-media.31652/#post-333996


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## JAX3000 (23 Dec 2015)

Ok, I'm sold. 

Today I ordered enough plastic pot scrubbers to last a lifetime. That is, if I scrubbed lots of pots... (Which I don't!)

I intend to use them to replace the bottom 2 trays in both filters.  That's the first 2 trays the water goes through after the coarse foam, which are currently FULL of Mech Pro. Craig says these work by causing the medium sized particals to fall out of suspension by deliberately slowing the flow... So they're gone!

I was also thinking I could remove the next layer, which is called Bio Mech and I believe acts as an effective biological and mechanical filter as the name suggests. I'd then halve the Substrat Pro and leave half in the top tray and put half in the second... (where the Bio Mech was). If I then remove the floss, I should have some turbo charged filters...!!

Thing is....

1) Without the mechanical filtration of the bottom 2 trays, what's gonna stop those medium sized particals clogging the biological media in the next 2 trays?

2) Without the floss, what's gonna remove the small particals so they don't end up permanently swirling around the water column?

And 3) will this leave me with sufficient biological filtration?

I suppose 1) I'll clean the filter media every week...

2) Purigen...? Water changes? (I'm already doing 50% per week.)

If Purigen, then won't THAT slow my flow too?

And 3) I guess I'd be ok for biological filtration due to the scrubbers having way more surface area than the Mech Pro...

By the way, I'm not keeping a wet garden with a handful of tiny fish. I have over 50 fish, none of which are small and I may end up slightly over stocked, so I must remain well over filtered....

So, how does this sound as new set up, (x2)

Coarse foam, followed by (from bottom to top)

Plastic scrubbers

Plastic scrubbers

Half Substrat Pro

Half Substrat Pro

Purigen

Will the Purigen reduce my flow too much?

Will my fish all die from ammonia and nitrite due to insufficient biological filtration?

If you could even be bothered to read all this - thank you. Also, please let me know what you think, your opinion is very valuable to me... Thank you 

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## James O (23 Dec 2015)

Looking good! 

Many use a piece of not too dense foam wrapped around the pipe that flows into the filter. It works as a mechanical prefilter, is very easy to remove and clean and hugely increases the time between filter cleans.  Just make sure it doesn't restrict the flow as its only there to stop the larger stuff.

The great thing with the pot scrubbers is that just because a particle gets past one, doesn't mean it will get past the next.  They are effective mechanically and biologically.

The Purigen pack shouldn't be so big that it stops/reduces flow.

Nearly forgot.  Swap one filter over to the new media at time, or one tray at a time in both.  You'll probably only notice the difference if you change one entire filter at a time so that's the way I would go.  It'll be seeded & colonised by the existing media n no time.


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## JAX3000 (26 Dec 2015)

Great!

So, I'll buy 2 x 100ml packs of Purigen (which come with bags) and remove half from each bag. Result = 100ml to treat approx 300 litres of water and another spare 100ml to use when the first batch is exhausted or to alternate (regenerate one, use the other...).

This way I also get to keep 2 identical filters. Not sure how important this is, but I like it.

Thanks for all your help  

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## JAX3000 (26 Dec 2015)

And Merry Christmas.....!!!!    

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## JAX3000 (26 Dec 2015)

Oh, I just realised the bag with 100ml of Purigen is sealed... So maybe I'll get 2 and put one in each filter and it'll just last twice as long...?

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