# NatureScape - The End



## Tim Harrison

Couldn't resist trying this awesome piece of gnarliness out in my new 60P. I'm going traditional NatureScape with this one, Crypts, Java fern, maybe some red stems etc. Either way, I think I'll keep it relatively simple - back to basics.
There's still a few yards left in Return of the Shallow...but it'll soon be time to tear it down, and then I can start working this new scape.




IMG_0008 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## alto

60P
- classic 

Change the Shallows over to a Wabi


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## CooKieS

The 60p is lovely to work on and that pièce of Wood is sexy, i'll be following


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## Jayefc1

Great peice of wood and tank cant wait to see this


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## Zeus.

Thread worth watching IMO 

The Pic reveals some of your secrets Tim in your book selection 'Wizardologly' so its aquascaping 'Potter' style


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## gltjc

Really like that wood in that tank!

Well done.


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## Angus

Exciting, i love KISS aquariums.


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## Ryan Thang To

Hi tim
Very cool. I love that wood. Similar wood i saw at glens place. He had one in a dry hardscape and it look so cool. 

Going to look cool i know

Cheers
Ryan


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## Keith GH

Tim

As you would know working with a one piece hardscape in an Aquascape is not going to be easy at all.

Keith


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Guys 


alto said:


> 60P
> - classic
> 
> Change the Shallows over to a Wabi


That's a good idea, but it'd be more of a terrascape and I don't think I have room for that 


Zeus. said:


> Thread worth watching IMO
> 
> The Pic reveals some of your secrets Tim in your book selection 'Wizardologly' so its aquascaping 'Potter' style


It's all smoke and mirrors 


Ryan Thang To said:


> Hi tim
> Very cool. I love that wood. Similar wood i saw at glens place. He had one in a dry hardscape and it look so cool.
> 
> Going to look cool i know
> 
> Cheers
> Ryan


I'll have to take a look, might be heading back to MK next week sometime.


Keith GH said:


> Tim
> 
> As you would know working with a one piece hardscape in an Aquascape is not going to be easy at all.
> Keith


Your probably right about that Keith, I doubt I'll be able to resist the temptation to add more hardscape. But the idea this time is to let the plants tell the story


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## Keith GH

Tim

The only thing I can think of is fixing it to a piece of slate and standing it upright. Plants a thick matting of small grassy plants and around the same leaf type but tall making it look like a semi wild appeal.

Keith


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## alto

This will be like Takashi Amano Retro Tank 

- a rewind to Back When it was just wood in those amazing Nature Aquarium tanks with nary a stone in sight 

Of course now we


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## Tim Harrison

alto said:


> his will be like Takashi Amano Retro Tank
> 
> - a rewind to Back When it was just wood in those amazing Nature Aquarium tanks with nary a stone in sight



I guess that's the idea alto, and if I can capture something of the essence of those stunning Takashi Amano scapes I'll be very pleased. But I'm never really sure how my scapes will turn out 



Keith GH said:


> Tim
> 
> The only thing I can think of is fixing it to a piece of slate and standing it upright. Plants a thick matting of small grassy plants and around the same leaf type but tall making it look like a semi wild appeal.
> 
> Keith


That would work nicely too Keith


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## Tim Harrison

Got more wood


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## alto

On loan 

or you broke the bank on a whole box for a diptych


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## Tim Harrison

No broke the bank ...diptych ?


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## Kalum

Tim Harrison said:


> Got more wood



That's some haul, ever so slightly jealous..... Where did you raid to find that much in one go?


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## CooKieS

Very nice Wood pieces


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> diptych ?


You know, the side by side paintings, glyphs ... or in this instance, tanks 

Like James Marshall (I think) triptych in

*The Aqueous Art Movement at Art Gallery*

(Is this stickied somewhere? I remembered it from ages past & went hunting ...)


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## Tim Harrison

Oh, I see


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## alto

Time to stop just walking about & get scaping 

At least some wood twist photos


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## Jayefc1

Agreed alto crack on tim


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## alto

Can't believe  you've abandoned this excellent bit of wood    for that interloper piece


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...it may make a return, I'm not altogether impressed with my attempt at using slate


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## DeiJas

That wood.... meow.


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...it may make a return, I'm not altogether impressed with my attempt at using slate


You just need to set up that tank DUO


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## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...it may make a return, I'm not altogether impressed with my attempt at using slate



An artist does lots on bad art before doing a masterpiece and sometimes it doesn't happen till the last brush stroke on the canvass. So all attempts which dont work out are good as one step closer to nailing it IMO.


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## Tim Harrison

Been playing around in the scape box and came up with this, thinking I'm probably going to use this one...




IMG_0971 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


IMG_0973 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


IMG_0897 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


IMG_0919 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


IMG_0917 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Edvet

Go Borneo with this one, some javafern, some bucephalandras, some mos and some wild betta's, maybe a few Sundadanio axelrodi or Desmopuntius rhomboocellatus, something growing on the wood above the waterline 
http://biotope-aquarium.info/aquari...ong-national-park-brunei-borneo-island-126-l/


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the suggestions Ed. Was thinking something along those lines.
Plant list so far...
Java fern - Trident (thanks Zeus)
H. pinnatifida
Buces
Mini Christmas moss
Crypts - C. wendtii green, kompakt, and maybe C. beckettii.
Rotalas
R. inundatus
Dwarf hairgrass or M. hirsuta
As for fish, small Hyphessobrycons and maybe a pair of Rams.

I've also got some lovely fern Marcel sent me along with an Aponogeton sp. which has just started to sprout leaves. Not sure if these are going in this scape or the 45-P, which I'll be scaping next.


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## Zeus.

Very Nice much better than the slate


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Zeus, the slate scape was a bit cr@p to say the least


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Marcel sent me along with an Aponogeton sp. which has just started to sprout leaves.


Whooooot! I was realy hoping it would come back to live with your care..  Great job Tim!.. Thanks for making it survive..  It's the A. Robinsonii floating var. imho the most beatifull and delicate Aponogeton around.

And nice scape too!!  Looking forward seeing this come together. How are going to name it?
The Borneo Bullhorns?...


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## Edvet

(if you go Asia, do asian fish, not rams/tetra's, there a re a lot of beautifull asian (or even Borneo) fish)


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> A. Robinsonii floating var. imho the most beatifull and delicate Aponogeton around.


I've put it in a makeshift pot with some AS Powder topped with fine gravel...



IMG_1004 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Tim Harrison

Everything is set now to get the new scape underway. Just need to get a few odds and sods and then I can start scaping. 
The nano has been brought back in to service as a holding tank for the plants salvaged from the shallow, inc the Aponogeton.



IMG_1005 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## zozo

Edvet said:


> if you go Asia



Actualy with lots of rocks and wood with little room for soil rooting plants.. One is kinda bound to use asian plants.. As there are no South American epiphytes in the aquarium trade other than a few mosses.. Than you have to go all the way themed Asia or go what ever you like kakafonia nature style.  IMHO me too i like it themed the best, some how the contrast of neon tetras with java ferns or even worse Discus with java ferns in the back kinda always hurts my eyes. It still does hurt me that i made a budgetary choice to go with anubias in my asian themed tank. In a way i keep seeing it still after over 2 years it nags..  All tho anubias already grows as introduced exotic in asian wild.

There just aren't any consesion to make.. If you want to use epiphytes with SA fish you have to go kakafonia..


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## Deano3

Looka great will ve watching this one.

You dosing co2 and ferts ?

Dean

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## Ryan Thang To

Tim Harrison said:


> Been playing around in the scape box and came up with this, thinking I'm probably going to use this one...
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0971 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_0973 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_0897 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_0919 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMG_0917 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


Hey tim
I love this layout. Reminds me one of glen layout he did at his work place. 

Looking forward to it.

Cheers
Ryan


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Deano3, yes it's going to be high-energy.
@Ryan Thang To thanks Ryan, I only sorted the shallow out yesterday, just want to get this up and running now 

P.S. Saw Glen Saturday at Aquarium Gardens. Must try and get to Destination Aquatics soon, it's been about a year since I was last there.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Tim Harrison said:


> But I'm never really sure how my scapes will turn out



Always the case mate. You can perfect things dry as much as you want but I'll guarantee you'll move something about when the water goes in.


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## Tim Harrison

As with many things in life, it didn't go according to plan. When I tried to transfer the scape over to the tank somehow the hardscape just wouldn't work and the wood stuck out too much against the wall.
Instead of wrestling with it for the rest of the day I went back to the drawing board and started again. I think I came up with a much stronger scape and one which will be easier to plant...

Couldn't get the wood to fit...





The new scape...





IMG_1010 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Deano3

Like it 

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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Deano3


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## AllieG

Looks great! I like the way the wood swoops down


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## Tim Harrison

Hardscape successfully transferred to the 60-P






IMG_1025 3 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Tim Harrison

The story so far - hardscape...


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## J@mes

Hi Tim, like the layout & that’s a lovely bit of wood - have you soaked it already?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks J@mes No, not yet. I'm going to do a plantless cycle for two weeks while I'm on holiday, it'll be weighed down with a rock. It should be fine by the time I get back.


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## JackMartins

Can’t wait for the planting time... 


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## Tim Harrison

Thank @JackMartins.
I'm still thinking about the planting...but definitely no carpet


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## Tim Harrison

The scape plumbed in and ready to go...






IMG_1092 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## JackMartins

Fill the tank, fill the tank, fill the tank...


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## FJK_12

Scaping with that one large dominating piece of wood will be fun challenge! Makes for a real proper focal point. Looking forward to planting



Tim Harrison said:


> Got more wood



Where did you manage to get your hands on this wood? Love the texture


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## Tim Harrison

@FJK_12 thanks, just bits and pieces I picked up over the years. If I see a good bit of hardscape I buy it


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## Keith GH

I know when I sold all my rocks I was surprised the weight I added to the back of my Station wagon.  

When I saw something I liked I bought it.   The best and cheapest was for rocks get to know your local Garden Supplier as they buy them by the big truck loads.

DW mostly old used pieces from the LFS display tanks.

Keith


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## Tim Harrison

FST of finished hardscape - I've added more natural gravel, but different grain sizes...



IMG_1104 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## FJK_12

this gets better and better! What is the planting plan atm?


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## Tim Harrison

Thank you @FJK_12  Well it's meant to be lowish maintenance, so mainly Crypts and Ferns with some stems. Not sure of the detail yet though, but think classic NatureScape


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## FJK_12

Sounds awesome. Would love to see some really dark green bucephalandra too


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## Tim Harrison

Oh yes I forgot, those too...




IMG_1104 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Jayefc1

Looks amazing much better this time mate


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## Tim Harrison

Started the plantless cycle, 2 weeks and it'll be ready to plant. The big rock on top of the wood is to hold it down. The wood is giving off a lot of tannins...
Also, gone is the Evolution Aqua glass pipework set. The surface skimmer didn't work even though I've an Eheim Ecco Pro 300 which turns over 750 l/hr, disappointing.


IMG_1140 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr

The open grain of the wood is soaking up a lot of water, I should get good emersed moss growth here...


IMG_1142 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr

Finally a shot of the holding tank, plants look healthy so far. Just 5 hour photoperiod and a diet of TNC complete and LC...


IMG_1141 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Keith GH

Tim

It always pays to have a holding tank/container.   I used a new clean large plastic waste bin on and off for many years.

Keith


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## Nubias

Looking forward to seeing it planted Tim.


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## Tim Harrison

Planted...


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## Jayefc1

Looks nice mate


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## Wulfen

Looking good


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## alto

Extraordinary Timing 
I was just thinking about this as I walked down the stairs ..... 

Love the stone work!

Of course now you need to provide all the specifics


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## Nigel95

Nice Tim!


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## Iain Sutherland

Sweet looking scape Tim, any thoughts on stocking?

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## DutchMuch

Glad to see it going so well tim


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## Keith GH

Tim

Every thing is going as planned it is looking great.

Keith


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## PARAGUAY

Looking good.


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## Tim Harrison

Thank you for the kind comments guys.

@Iain Sutherland, green neons popped in to my head for some reason. But I also have some cardinals and _Hyphessobrycon cf. loweae _from my last scape that I want to keep.

@alto...
Tank - ADA Cube Garden 60-P
Filter - Eheim Ecco Pro 300, 750l/hr
Light - Radion XR15 FW, 6 hr photoperiod @ 60% intensity atm.
Lily pipes - Hinterfield set (fed up of busting expensive ones)
Algae buster/oxygenator - TwinStar Nano with Chihiros reactor
CO2 - Fire extinguisher and CO2 Art pro dual stage reg (older version), Up original inline atomiser, JBL bubble counter/check valve, Aquarium Gardens drop checker
Heater - Hydor inline

Substrate - ADA AS Amazonia, Hugo Kamishi Natural Mix Gravel, fine and Dennerle Plantahunter natural gravel, river
Wood - random piece from collection
Stone - Seiryu aka mini landscape rock
Water - from the tap, hard

Plants...
Various buces
Crypts - _willisii, wendtii, affinis, legroi
M. pteropus_ 'Trident'
_M. pteropus_ var.
_Aponogeton robinsonii _floating var.
Various _Rotala_ spp.
_Ranunculus papulentus
Ludwigia _sp. Mini Super Red
_Eleocharis _sp Mini
_H. pinnatifida
Bolbitis
Marsilea crenata_
Christmas moss
_Monosolenium tenerum_, I think?


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## Zeus.

Looking great Tim Already  Be good to see how it fills in 



Tim Harrison said:


> _M. pteropus_ 'Trident'



Looks really healthy , better than it did when it was in my tank  some wizardry going on me thinks


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Karl. I have a confession to make...the trident you gave me pretty much went the same way it did in your tank. I put it in my holding tank and It did well for a while and then suddenly melted. The other plants in the same tank all thrived including another _M. pteropus_ var. So no wizardry.
Might have been a less than healthy cultivar...so maybe it wasn't anything you or I did or didn't do. Well I guess I'll find out soon enough


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## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> .the trident you gave me pretty much went the same way it did in your tank



Shame but if it couldn't survive in your hands what chance do I have! So good news in a way  Be interesting too to see how yours goes compared to my trident, I  have as just had a big melt (again ) with the trident I still have, so big trimming done this weekend. Mine might need stripping completely and a better batch putting on could explain the recurrent issues I've had with it melting! where did you get your batch from m8?


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## Tim Harrison

I got this batch from k2aqua on eBay. I also think as most of the plants we like to keep underwater would prefer not to be...underwater, that they sometimes get tired and don't grow so well after a while.


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> But I also have some cardinals and _Hyphessobrycon cf. loweae _from my last scape that I want to keep.


Where are these fish residing at present?


Quite certain I see room for a second tank on that cabinet


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## Tim Harrison

In my holding tank, which was moved from the cabinet to the floor.
I've thought about putting the 45-P on the cabinet next to the 60-P...but that's as far as it's got


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## alto

“Holding Tank” calls out for a photo 

(Geneva conventions an’ all  )


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## Tim Harrison

...or freedom of information act 
I posted this pic earlier, message #63, it's nothing special just a SuperFish 30cm cube. I don't have many fish left so they are quite happy in among the tangled mess of plants...


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## alto

did see that but didn’t realize any fish “being held”

I suspect the green neons won’t mind “criminal element” - as they are all tetras


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## Keith GH

Tim
Any serious Aquascaper and fish keeper requires a spare holding tank.    I never had one space was my biggest concern.

Keith


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## Tim Harrison

Absolutely Keith, wouldn't be without mine. It's invaluable transitioning between scapes.


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## Keith GH

Tim

All I ever used were two 75lt plastic bins only ever used for the aquarium.  

Keith


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## Tim Harrison

I think I managed to acquire a pair of juvenile Rams today...let me know what you think...

Female?




Male?


Together


IMG_1349 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## Edvet

Looking good. I am waiting to select a pair from some wc to put in the Blue backed.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ed, It was bit pot luck they didn't have much in the way of colour so it was difficult to sex the female. The male was easy though, he was chasing everything.


Edvet said:


> am waiting to select a pair from some wc to put in the Blue backed.


I think they are awesome little fish and will be a great addition, and right at home.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 
Look like a pair. Mike Wise @Apistogramma forums says the only sure way is by looking at the <"blue spangling in the humeral spot">, so the combination of blue spangles and pink belly patch looks good for a female.

cheers Darrel


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## CooKieS

Looks awesome, can't wait to get mine.

Can they survive 22 degrees in Winter?


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## Edvet

CooKieS said:


> Can they survive 22 degrees in Winter?


They should, they come from the venezuelan llanos, which have those temperatures in winter.


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## Tim Harrison

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Look like a pair. Mike Wise @Apistogramma forums says the only sure way is by looking at the <"blue spangling in the humeral spot">, so the combination of blue spangles and pink belly patch looks good for a female.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I watched for any signs of aggression from the male and there isn't any, in fact quite the opposite. So along with your info as well Darrel, I'm pretty certain I've managed to find a pair...at long last.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

The fins also make me think male and female. On the male the first couple of dorsal rays and the first pectoral ray elongate. Your juvinille is showing signs of this also and the female is not.

The 'forehead' shape also supports this being a pair. The female is more of a straight line, the male has a curved forehead.

Literally every indicator shows up the right way round!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the extra confirmation Matt. I swear I could sex these fish in my sleep a couple of decades ago. But I'm guessing the females have since been bred to become more colourful and therefore resemble males more. No? And I suppose it doesn't help that most of those for sale are juveniles.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Agreed on both accounts!


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## AverageWhiteBloke

IMO a pair as well. I've kept many pairs of these, usually have a pair in almost every setup size permitting. Maled hardly ever if at all exhibit the red spots on the stomach, another thing is over the the forthcoming coupled of weeks the male will grow a lot larger than the female.

When very young they tend to spawn a lot so it shouldn't be long before you know for sure. They're awful parents though when kept in a single pair probably because the majority of these fish are artificially spawned. The "pairs" also tend to fall out a lot. They don't really pair up as such and would swap partners willy nilly given half the chance but as they have no choice of partners they will fall out but get together just to do what nature intended. Either fish will tend to eat the eggs when they get bored of each other. Probably why they get artificially raised so much which then has the down side of passing on the not really caring about their offspring gene.

Very popular in lfs so breeders don't leave it to chance. I've kept these fish and tried to breed them for decades and have yet to raise any spawn, for that matter I don't think I've seen anyone else either. Never tried removing the eggs though, maybe one day. They are also very susceptible to hexamita. Once treated for worms though they are pretty bullet proof. They are also quite prone to just popping their clogs with no apparent reason, just starts off with striping up and heavy breathing when all other fish are well. 

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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the info AWB.


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> They are also very susceptible to hexamita


That's a nasty little parasite, I'll keep an eye on them for symptoms.


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## AverageWhiteBloke

It is mate. I think it comes from them being kept in sterile conditions from the breeders so they tend to pick it up when they go in a normal tank. I solved mine with harkers worming stuff.

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## mort

CooKieS said:


> Looks awesome, can't wait to get mine.
> 
> Can they survive 22 degrees in Winter?



Wild ones possibly, but since they have been so heavily captive bred for decade's captive bred tend to be quite weak and prefer warm water. They do best in 26c plus ime.


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## CooKieS

mort said:


> Wild ones possibly, but since they have been so heavily captive bred for decade's captive bred tend to be quite weak and prefer warm water. They do best in 26c plus ime.



Ok thank you, I won't put an heater in my setup so I'll better not but these fishes anyway


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## mort

CooKieS said:


> Ok thank you, I won't put an heater in my setup so I'll better not but these fishes anyway



There are lots of apistogramma species that would do well, as would nannacara anomala or laetacara curviceps.


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## CooKieS

mort said:


> There are lots of apistogramma species that would do well, as would nannacara anomala or laetacara curviceps.



Nice suggestions, thanks. I will see if my LFS got some n.anomala in stock.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





mort said:


> There are lots of apistogramma species that would do well,


<"_Apistogramma borellii_ "> are an option.

cheers Darrel


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## mort

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, <"_Apistogramma borellii_ "> are an option.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Apistogramma trifasciata should be a good and reasonably easy to find option as well. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/apistogramma-trifasciata/


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## dw1305

Hi all,





mort said:


> Apistogramma trifasciata should be a good and reasonably easy to find option as well.


I was going to suggest them, I kept these for a while, and they are lovely fish, but the males <"are really territorial"> and homicidal from a young age.

cheers Darrel


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## mort

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,I was going to suggest them, I kept these for a while, and they are lovely fish, but the males <"are really territorial"> and homicidal from a young age.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Interesting. I've never kept them but knew they come from cooler waters. Maybe best in a situation with lots of space.


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## CooKieS

These apistogramma are lovely and I'm liking their small size...do you think they will fit in my 60p with lots of hides?


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## Edvet

I''ve bred trifasciata in 60x30x30 cm, one male two females.


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## Tim Harrison

Well, it's been about a month since this scape was set up, and it's been through a few changes. There has been a lot of die back and a massive amount of organics released as a result. The wood isn't as stable as I thought it'd be and that has also contributed to the organic load. Consequently, I've had some algae issues, mainly staghorn and filamentous. Anyway, I removed the infested plants, and two massive water changes and a serious maintenance session later it looks like this...


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## CooKieS

Lovely scape and fishes, those H.Roseus will colour up nicely once acclimated! Love mine.

Good luck with algae!


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## Keith GH

Tim

A great little video.  It would be rare for you to get caught with the DW and algae.

Keith


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @CooKieS, I've been looking for them for some time, in fact ever since I saw them in your ADA 60P nature aquarium. I eventually stumbled across them at Pets @ Home for £1:00 each;  couldn't believe my luck 

@Keith GH, thanks Keith. The wood is still disintegrating a bit but it's not as bad as it was. It was covered in moss which just trapped mulm and wood fragments under it. The moss then started to grow a coat of filamentous algae, I got fed up with it and ripped it out. The Trident went the same way. It wasn't transitioning very well at all; it was looking decidedly manky and becoming covered in staghorn algae, so that too had to go.

I think I've managed to clear the worst of it up and have pretty much got the scape where I need it to move forward. Plus the controller for my new Twinstar 600SA arrived today, so I'll be able to rig the new light up and should get better coverage, without hotspots - which didn't help. I'm going to miss the glitter lines of my Radion XR15 FW though.




IMG_1404 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## CooKieS

Interested in buying the twinstar S series too...waiting for your review. What brand is that controller? Thanks


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## Tim Harrison

Just installed it, looking good so far...definitely brings out the colours of the fish and plants.
The controller is this http://www.hinterfeld.com/hinterfeld-programable-smart-controller-for-led-fan-dc-pump/ the pro version.


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## Zeus.

CooKieS said:


> Interested in buying the twinstar



Was also thinking of getting one myself until I seen the ADA RGB LED solars  and twinstars at Green Aqua .

Nigel informed us that Chihiros are releasing a copy of the ADA RGB LED solar later this year so may be worth the wait IMO, hopefully they will be dimmable too 



Tim Harrison said:


> The controller is this http://www.hinterfeld.com/hinterfeld-programable-smart-controller-for-led-fan-dc-pump/ the pro version.



Got the same one on daughters tank and very happy with it great piece of kit


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## Tim Harrison

Zeus. said:


> Nigel informed us that Chihiros are releasing a copy of the ADA RGB LED solar later this year so may be worth the wait IMO, hopefully they will be dimmable too


Knew that would happen as soon as I bought the Twinstar  However, I'm not too upset; the quality of Chihiros lights can sometimes be a bit iffy.
I've also found a simple and very neat way to suspend the 600 SA using my Radion suspension kit - without modification - so it should stay level to the surface of the water and not twist like the 600 SP


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> Knew that would happen as soon as I bought the Twinstar



 Sorry Tim i thought you knew and I knew you had been thinking about the twinstar too . Thought me and Nigel had been chatting about it on UKAPS but it wasnt it was at ASW  



Tim Harrison said:


> the quality of Chihiros lights can sometimes be a bit iffy


 
IDD


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...no worries Karl  I've just screwed the plugs for the suspension kit in to the ceiling. Just got to wait for the filler to dry and add a coat or two of emulsion and I'm ready to go. I'll post a few snaps to show how it works...or not, tomorrow.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Zeus. said:


> Thought me and Nigel had been chatting about it on UKAPS but it wasnt it was at ASW


Missed that...Just watched the video you linked, looks like it might be a decent bit of kit. If you buy one, or in your case a few, you'll have to do a review.


----------



## Andrew Butler

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...no worries Karl  I've just screwed the plugs for the suspension kit in to the ceiling. Just got to wait for the filler to dry and add a coat or two of emulsion and I'm ready to go. I'll post a few snaps to show how it works...or not, tomorrow.


Looking forward to seeing this.


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha...no worries Karl  I've just screwed the plugs for the suspension kit in to the ceiling. Just got to wait for the filler to dry and add a coat or two of emulsion and I'm ready to go. I'll post a few snaps to show how it works...or not, tomorrow.



Got mine to do also it's even waiting 18 months, but still haven't got the tank right yet!
Think I would be tempted to fix a solid bar to the ceiling so I could fix it direct to the joists then fix the suspension wires to the bar. Just thinking about it it could work well with a spacer between the upper bar and ceiling and look good too. Thanks Tim answering your post the solution thats been alluding me just came to mind


----------



## CooKieS

Chihiros new X series will compete the ada solar rgb...old chihiros rgb led was cheap.

Twinstar S is an good alternative...less colourful but more natural looking than ada rgb IMO

Flat one led is looking very nice too...


----------



## CooKieS

CooKieS said:


> Chihiros new X series will compete the ada solar rgb...old chihiros rgb led was cheap.
> 
> Twinstar S is an good alternative...less colourful but more natural looking than ada rgb IMO
> 
> Flat one led is looking very nice too...



Chihiros new vivid rgb not x series...sorry


----------



## Tim Harrison

My Twinstar 600SA is now airborne; suspended from the ceiling and no twisting whatsoever, which is what you get with the Twinstar pendant version - 600/900SP.

I used 100mm long stainless steel bolts, 4mm in diameter, and slid them in the holes that the adjustable legs usually fit in to. They fit perfectly without damaging the light. After a bit of thought an Arcadia suspension kit was the best option https://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=WA4070...


----------



## Andrew Butler

Tim Harrison said:


> no twisting whatsoever, which is what you get with the Twinstar pendant version of the 600/900SP


Looks great Tim, I'm still thinking about adapting both my 600S and 900S somehow - you've got me thinking now Hmmmmmmm.
Tank mounted sucks but after trying out the P versions the photo below will show you what they are like; unstable is the best descriptor!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Andrew, I have you and Karl to thank for steering me in the right direction. It was our discussion that got me thinking too. 
I think the answer for the SP may be to buy longer end section screws and to just attach an Arcadia suspension kit that way. No modifications required.

I can see what Twinstar were trying to do...keep the design as minimalistic as possible, but the power cord throws the whole unit off kilter. 
I prefer to have both form and function, but give me function over form every time.


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> My Twinstar 600SA is now airborne; suspended from the ceiling and no twisting whatsoever, which is what you get with the Twinstar pendant version - 600/900SP.
> 
> I used 100mm long stainless steel bolts, 4mm in diameter, and slid them in the holes that the adjustable legs usually fit in to. They fit perfectly without damaging the light. After a bit of thought an Arcadia suspension kit was the best option https://www.wharfaquatics.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=WA4070...



Great Job Tim The only slight thing I would of done different is used 'Black' 100mm long stainless steel bolts, but the result is the same a stable light


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Karl, black would look good. I might buy some. All four only cost a couple of quid from eBay.


----------



## Daveslaney

Fantastic job Tim. Looks great.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Dave


----------



## Andrew Butler

Zeus. said:


> 'Black' 100mm long stainless steel bolts


I don't know if you know Karl but the end caps are a very dark grey and black looks a little wrong against it I think.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Nice Job @Tim Harrison Just a thought, obviously I work in the industry so it might be a not so cheap alternative (I might have some kicking about actually) I fit acoustic ceiling baffles and the suspension kit comprises of the ceiling mount which has a plastic cover and a adjuster that you open with an alan key, adjust then cut off the excess cable. Just wondering if you could get some black perspex cut and drilled for the ends with holes lining up with the mounting holes then another one higher up central to the light fitting then fix the perspex onto the fitting using plastic black number plate screws which are 4mm diameter maybe? Or it hanging centrally causing the it to tilt because of the electric cable? i suppose you could cable tie it to the suspension wires?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks AWB, good idea, that could work well too


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Actually mate looking at what you have there, I would just try the plastic number plate screws and see how they fit the holes. They might screw in without much resistance without damaging the fitting. The inside thread is 3.5mm and 4mm on the outside. The caps I have are nice though for hiding where its mounted to the ceiling. Just managed to dig some out, I'm at the office anyway. The cables are pre looped which is tidy and the adjuster slides up the cable then grabs when you slide it other way so no alan key like I first thought. The cap you screw to the ceiling and suspend the cable the the cover hides the fixing. Would make a bang tidy job that I reckon if I ever needed to go down that route. Only things is you need to buy them in kits of eight.


----------



## CooKieS

Andrew Butler said:


> Looks great Tim, I'm still thinking about adapting both my 600S and 900S somehow - you've got me thinking now Hmmmmmmm.
> Tank mounted sucks but after trying out the P versions the photo below will show you what they are like; unstable is the best descriptor!
> 
> View attachment 117921



Thanks for this pic, I've juste deleted te twinstar sp from my future led list...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just a quick iPhone shot post water change and maintenance. The stems at the back are really starting to grow well and colour up a bit more since the Twinstar 600SA was installed.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Marks been having some success bringing up Rams au naturel. Fingers crossed he manages to raise the fry, Anybody who has tried to breed Rams will know this is edge of the seat material when you know how quickly they will eat fry when spooked! Resistance is futile, I can see me setting a small breeder tank up and having another go with these fish.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The stems are still doing well, I'm hoping they will colour up more. I've got the light at 80% for 6hrs, which is really pushing the envelope with the relatively small plant biomass I have atm. I'm getting some algae issues, but nothing I can't handle...so far 





@zozo Marcel, thought I'd post a pic of the _Aponogeton robinsonii _floating var. you gave me, it has really started to take off. It seems to be responding well to the extra light, and CO2 of course. It's a really attractive plant and I can't wait to see it send out floating leaves and maybe flowers


----------



## zozo

Splendid!..  Imho the most atractive Aponogeton around.. I'm glad you like it too..  What i know from the source i got it from, it should flower easily.. Now you got it taking off, it shouldn't be a problem.. Can't wait to see.


----------



## CooKieS

Ranunculus inundatus looks great in your setup...is it hard to grow?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks. Not especially, it seems undemanding, pretty much. It filled out very quickly and is now sending out runners.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Looking great Tim,  will only get better as it matures. 
How are you finding the dimensions opposed to the old wide and shallow?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Iain. The dimensions aren't that bad, it's nice to have more height to play with for a change. I could always do with a little more depth, but trying to make the best of the space I have is all part of the fun.


----------



## Ady34

Nice Tim, love the use of the single flowing wood piece. Great solution to the wonky twinstar light too


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady. Any further thoughts about your lighting?


----------



## Ady34

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Ady. Any further thoughts about your lighting?


I’m going to do some more searching however I’m pretty sure for price point I’ll be getting some variant of the twinstar.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Been away a lot over the last month...


----------



## zozo

And back on track!.. Gorgious scape.. Love the Coffee bean Tetras.. (Not sure if that's an interational common name.. And not sure, but i believe it's in German i heart it first.)


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, I like them too, they're fully grown and still quite diminutive.
Did you notice the Aponogeton you gave me in the background, it's bending in the current but nearly to the water surface now.


----------



## CooKieS

zozo said:


> And back on track!.. Gorgious scape.. Love the Coffee bean Tetras.. (Not sure if that's an interational common name.. And not sure, but i believe it's in German i heart it first.)



Those aren't coffee bean tetra (hyphessobricon takasai), but hyphessobricon roseus FYI.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Did you notice the Aponogeton



Yes i did recognize the leaf shape texture and color.. Can't be missed once you know it, it stands out. It was a rather tiny bulb for a start, love to see it taking off so well.  I still have a bulb hidden in my low tech somewhere still refusing to grow.



CooKieS said:


> Those aren't coffee bean tetra (hyphessobricon takasai), but hyphessobricon roseus FYI.


Yes now i see.. Thanks.. Gorgious little fish..


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Good work Tim, I like it with the foreground planting.  Great vid too 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Fiske

zozo said:


> And back on track!.. Gorgious scape.. Love the Coffee bean Tetras.. (Not sure if that's an interational common name.. And not sure, but i believe it's in German i heart it first.)



Works in danish too... Kaffebønnetetra. 



CooKieS said:


> Those aren't coffee bean tetra (hyphessobricon takasai), but hyphessobricon roseus FYI.



Ah... Hyphesso_brycon_ if you want to pick nits . Common name _Gul Fantom Tetra. _Apparently not bred in Denmark. They should be quite shy. Those are looking good


----------



## Jayefc1

Looks good matey bet the vid took a while lol


----------



## zozo

In my country they are refered to as Schoulder Spot Tetra and Phantom Tetra is even broader. There are several Hyphessobrycon with a spot on the flank in our trade given the same common name. Didn't know it was 1 specific sp called coffee bean.. I heard Coffee Bean Tetra first in a German Docu video about the amazone when filmed in the wild, the sceintific name wasn't mentioned. They were all schooling aruond a much bigger fish that was cracking nuts that fall into the water and the coffee beans were picking it's spoils. I liked it and also kind fell in love with this spotted Hyphessobrycon species. 

The H. roseus Tim has, seem to be the smallest with a schoulder spot. Definitively on my wishlist for a future amazone setup. But for now i also can not obtain them, can't find them anywhere.


----------



## Jayefc1

Tim do you leave your twin star on all the time when I first got mine couldn't find anything on them so I've just left it on


----------



## Andrew Butler

Jayefc1 said:


> Tim do you leave your twin star on all the time when I first got mine couldn't find anything on them so I've just left it on


Assuming you mean the steriliser and not the light then you do just leave them on all the time and they work on a cycle; you have to press buttons to get it going after it is powered up so wouldn't work on a timer anyway.


----------



## CooKieS

zozo said:


> In my country they are refered to as Schoulder Spot Tetra and Phantom Tetra is even broader. There are several Hyphessobrycon with a spot on the flank in our trade given the same common name. Didn't know it was 1 specific sp called coffee bean.. I heard Coffee Bean Tetra first in a German Docu video about the amazone when filmed in the wild, the sceintific name wasn't mentioned. They were all schooling aruond a much bigger fish that was cracking nuts that fall into the water and the coffee beans were picking it's spoils. I liked it and also kind fell in love with this spotted Hyphessobrycon species.
> 
> The H. roseus Tim has, seem to be the smallest with a schoulder spot. Definitively on my wishlist for a future amazone setup. But for now i also can not obtain them, can't find them anywhere.



Yes, got them in my 60p and they're awesome, not shy (got ember before and these were very shy in comparaison) when in group, peaceful, loves to parade etc...nice little tetra.

Here's one macro shot of a female I've take a while ago:





Available in France for 2€ each  can't find the h.takasei from guyana anywhere unfortunately 

Sorry for the spam Tim but can't resist with those tetras.


----------



## DutchMuch

Tim Harrison said:


> Been away a lot over the last month...



omg now i know what tim looks like
i always imagined u as a 25 y/o hiker.
Well now i know the face behind the mask, nice beard!

also good video well done!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Iain Sutherland said:


> Good work Tim, I like it with the foreground planting.  Great vid too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Thanks Iain. Thought I'd give the foreground planting a go see what it looked like.



Jayefc1 said:


> Looks good matey bet the vid took a while lol


Thanks, I'm fairly new to this video malarky, so it's taken me a while to get to grips with iMovie...



Jayefc1 said:


> Tim do you leave your twin star on all the time when I first got mine couldn't find anything on them so I've just left it on


It runs on a programme, so the control unit is on all the time but it operates the reactor on a timer.



CooKieS said:


> Sorry for the spam Tim but can't resist with those tetras.


No worries, nice image.



DutchMuch said:


> omg now i know what tim looks like
> i always imagined u as a 25 y/o hiker.
> Well now i know the face behind the mask, nice beard!
> 
> also good video well done!


Haha, I wish, and thanks...


----------



## Jayefc1

Ahhh cool so that is what mine does then thanks Tim


----------



## alto

CooKieS said:


> can't find the h.takasei from guyana anywhere unfortunately


Aquarium Glaser have them occasionally - they are listed as 4-5cm (catch identity apparently confirmed) though fishbase suggests 3cm 
(apparently there has also been German bred fish available)

I’ve also heard of them as “coffee bean tetras” - ordered some when they appeared on an Asian fish list but no delivery of course and haven’t seen them listed since 

Wet Spot Tropical Fish  which brings in a considerable amount of wild caught SA fish, has them listed occasionally 

@ Tim Harrison   for continueing the fish side foray

I miss the awesome gravel foreground but now waiting on the green


----------



## Tim Harrison

Visited IKEA yesterday and found this beauty in the plant section at the end...

_Dionaea muscipula_




Light ramping up...


----------



## foxfish

That is a nice example, I have not had much luck with them, I have kept them alive for a year or so in my emersed set up but never managed to get one thriving.
I even bought some specialist food, tried flys of course, in fact some sites say they don’t need feeding in that manor at all.
Good luck with yours.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Dionaea muscipula



Wonderfull!.. But don't play to much with touching the catchers..  They only store enrgy for maybe 3 times and than stop functioning..
You never know how often they are already touched by passing ikea visitors..   Everytime i'm in a garden centre i see people to that and than joyfully say look how neat to there partner.. Than i just can't help it to say while passing "You are killing them that way".  You should buy what you break..


----------



## Tim Harrison

It's a fantastic specimen Marcel. It was also completely covered in it's own little plastic terrarium; so hopefully it hasn't been played with


----------



## Tim Harrison

foxfish said:


> That is a nice example, I have not had much luck with them, I have kept them alive for a year or so in my emersed set up but never managed to get one thriving.
> I even bought some specialist food, tried flys of course, in fact some sites say they don’t need feeding in that manor at all.
> Good luck with yours.


Thanks foxfish, I've kept them before. I think they prefer rainwater, but I might try tank water...I'll see how it goes.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> It was also completely covered in it's own little plastic terrarium


Well that is great!, Never saw 'm like that.. But thats likely because i rarely visit ikae.. We live to close to belgium and german border with no ikea for many many miles and miles. It chooked full with people every day, back pain waiten at the register.. 



Tim Harrison said:


> but I think tank water will do just as well.


If it is fertilized you'll likely going to kill it.. And it's a temporate North American sp. goes into dormancy during the winter. Actualy this month not the best time to buy it, it might go down soon.. Absolutely best is rain or demineralized water. They realy need nothing concerning fertilization if you give them pure water and insects. Nitrogen absolutely burms the crap out of them, they want it moist and to make their own nitrogen from the protien you feed.  I've tried to keep 'm alive with my tap water and it always kills them, to much nitrogen. Now i buy 5 litre canister Demi water at the wall mart for € 2.50.. 50 cents a litre. Only use that and only feed swaped flies or mosquito larvea, froozen does also very good. I do few months with 5 litre.

Haven't had a venus trap for a while.. Right now i'm playing with this for a few months now.. Also fits beter hanging above tha asian themed tank. 

Same story strickly pure water and swaped flies etc.




This site can give you all info you need if it goes into dormancy.. 
http://www.sarracenia.com/


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





Tim Harrison said:


> found this beauty in the plant section at the end...


That is a cracker. 

I think they are difficult in a centrally heated house, probably because they need a much cooler winter.

We used to have some in the teaching lab., in the  goldfish bowls (that now house the _Pinguicula_ "moranensis" from <"this thread">). They were fine until we had the steel framed <"single glazed windows replaced with double glazing">, which killed them off fairly quickly. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks foxfish, I've kept them before. I think they prefer rainwater, but I think tank water will do just as well...I'll see how it goes.


It's a beauty Tim. Correct on rainwater, you probably know this but if you feed nutrientsby way of tankwater it will stop creating 'catchers' and just make little boring leaves. You probably know all this but while they like to be wet the are also prone to rot... wet feet but not swimming. Sundews are great to keep with them as the also look good and generally flower year round... can pop some in the mail if you want some fella...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, Darrel and Iain for the info, rainwater it is then from now on. Iain, I'd love some Sundews, thanks, PM sent.


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's it, I've had enough...
That is, enough of BBA...I'm fed up with the stuff...I've been battling it constantly in my scape. The only variable that's different to my other scapes, where it has been totally absent, is the huge chunk of wood. 
I think it's disintegrating and giving off more organics than the system can handle. It's going to have to come out, and then by de facto I'm going to have to rescape 
The only issue is do I try and rescue some of my existing plants and risk infecting my new scape, Or do I bin the lot and start again ?


----------



## PARAGUAY

Put the heathiest ? in a bucket with ambient light,check in a few days if they look ok and you can use/ or give them away() healthy) Shame about that wood


----------



## Edvet

I don't think i would worrie using the plants again, good tank health should take care of the plants.


----------



## zozo

Or be patient and wait it out..  I have simmular issues in my low tech that also contains a massive amount of wood. And indeed always some BBA growing to it.. Since its a low energy it slow energy it took me 3 years but gradualy i seem at the winning hand of the battle. Last time i killed it with spot treatment it was the most effective treatment i ever gave 2 months ago and it's still nothing growing back. The first 3 years it was about indestructible, it probably is as strong as its food source.

But can imagine, in HT situation and if you like to rescape once a year anyway, getting fed up with it after a few months.


----------



## alto

Sympathies  

Have you been treating the BBA with (increased dosage of) Excel etc?
I’d run the 3 doses of this before removing plants to a holding tank ... OTOH it’s nice to plan something completely new 

Toss the wood in a pond for a year I suppose


----------



## alto

Of course SEEING would be awesome


----------



## PAYN3Y

Tim Harrison said:


> That's it, I've had enough...
> That is, enough of BBA...I'm fed up with the stuff...I've been battling it constantly in my scape. The only variable that's different to my other scapes, where it has been totally absent, is the huge chunk of wood.
> I think it's disintegrating and giving off more organics than the system can handle. It's going to have to come out, and then by de facto I'm going to have to rescape
> The only issue is do I try and rescue some of my existing plants and risk infecting my new scape, Or do I bin the lot and start again ?



Interesting to read this. I am also struggling with BBA at the moment and it's very disheartening. If you have seen my tank you'll see I also have some huge pieces of bogwood that are always giving off loads of organics. The substrate around it takes endless hoovering and the plants constantly have detritus sitting on them. Not really thought about it being the issue but it's quite possible.


----------



## zozo

What realy works very good is a spot treatment in combination with Easy Carbo (Glut) followed by a 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). Sequence doesn't realy mater.

I came to the idea of reading an article from plantektank.net about the 1 - 2 Punch, a bit more drastic approach with both substances dosed relatively high for the entire tank followed large water changes. The replies of people trying that recipe all were rather positive as very effective method. But i wasn't confident to try that high dose with fish in the tank. So i choose not to and only spot treat small quantities with both over a periode of time on different locations.

Also this works very effective, once it is damaged and keep dosing glut at normal recomended dosage delivers the final blow preventing it to recover.

Haven't dosed any glut anymore for over 2 months and the all over status of BBA in the tank is still acceptable and easy to control with a bit of peroxide.


Anyway, in the worst BBA periodes with 80% of all wood covered with it and killing all the moss, the 3% peroxide only spot treatment didn't do zip to the algae. And that indeed is disheartening.


----------



## Andrew Butler

zozo said:


> Easy Carbo (Glut) followed by a 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2)


I was about to ask whether this was a treatment while livestock were in the tank until I read the answer.
I've not got a problem with BBA right now but my mum has and looking to me for answers, do you know where the reading is about this '1-2 punch' treatment or can you explain it please?


----------



## zozo

The method is completely explained here.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/23-algae/203684-one-two-punch-whole-tank-algae-treatment.html

The H2O2 only treatment is a popular method in Germany and fully explained at the shop afiliated with FlowGrow forum.
https://www.aquasabi.com/aquascaping-wiki/algae/hydrogen-peroxide-treatment

I never did this H2O2 full tank treatment in a tank with fish.. Even tho alledgedly safe, but i just don't like it and don't dislike algae that much to go to such drastic matters with chemicals. But i once tried it on a planted tank only with a cladophora outbreak and it worked a charme all algae killed. (For the time beeing, ofcourse)

In tanks with life stock i rather spot treat small amounts over a longer periode. Ofcourse that way you can't reach spots you don't see.. But what the hell, what i don't see doesn't hurt. I'm not that fanatic anti algae nerd, to some degree it's still something natural imho and should be viewed as such. 

But that is something everybody has to decide for their own.. 

Succes..


----------



## CooKieS

I've done once an H202 treatment on my dennerle nano cube 20l and lost half of my livestock...be careful with that stuff! 

Spot treatment with glut is safer but takes time.


----------



## Daveslaney

If you have Monte Carlo your tank H2O2 will wipe this out too.


----------



## alto

Agree with the above, there are loads of mixed result reports with peroxide use re livestock 
(as expected really) 

Excel use reports are a bit more homogenous re livestock BUT this should not be assumed to apply equally to alternate sources of Glutaraldehyde (especially when marketed for sanitation use)

Like Formalin, storage & manufacture may dramatically impact grade/purity of Glutaraldehyde - in the case of Formalin, byproducts are well documented and some are very toxic to aquatic species 
Aldehyde reactivity/chemistry is worth a read before using non-aquarium branded products 

Aquarium marketed products tend to have built in _stoopidity_ safe guards  including special attention to stabilization of the aldehydes


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the replies guys.

I've been dealing with the BBA, but it's unrelenting because the decomposing wood is unbalancing the system too much, and it's taking far more time and energy than I'm used to investing. Plus I'm getting a thick surface film; a sure sign something is wrong. It's got to the point where I might as well rescape. However, I won't have time to do it for a while, I might take the wood out in the meantime. It's a shame, but I think it looked better just after it was first scaped.

TBH I gave up a couple of weeks ago and have been turning a blind eye ever since. Prior to that I was also spot treating and dosing LC, and trying to keep up with the good housekeeping. Fertz are good, and CO2 flow and distribution are more than adequate.

Plus I'm having to keep the light intensity relatively low and the duration to around 6 hrs/day. This means that I'm not getting the rate of growth I'm aiming for, nor the growth morphology from the stems that I want either. Up shot, the scape has become a slog without the tradeoff of being as aesthetically pleasing as I'd like, and neither am I learning very much...other than not to use so much untested wood in a small aquarium 

As it is now, it doesn't bear up at all well to close scrutiny...




After it was first scaped; sort of an inverted "from this to this"...


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> It's a shame, but I think it looked better just after it was first scaped.


That’s a sensation I can relate  
My relationship with any scape I create cycles between love hate tolerate heh not too bad looking grand damn needs a massive trim hmmm maybe a complete rescape gorgeous happy fish 

I redid my 90 x 45 a couple months back, then recently watched a GF video again and was reminded how much I liked Balbi Vaquero’s Interzoo 2018 style and had meant to try and incorpate that end view as I also frequently view this tank side on ...


I vote for wood removal and just letting plants grow until you’ve time to rescape 

Add in an Eheim 350 skim - they’re fantastic at surface clean and returning a sparkle to the water 
Just watch for shrimp and fish getting in - I placed a cut down Tropica plant pot over the top, shrimp will still climb in but they seem quite happy in there (just fish seem to “drown”     )


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finally got around to stripping this nightmare of a scape down. I couldn't leave it any longer, it was seriously starting to depress me...

First step, getting rid of the troublesome wood...







Trying to salvage a few plants. Before...



After...




The inevitable muddy puddle...




Ready for the ReBoot. Watch this space...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## oscar

Add so it begins again


----------



## Konsa

Hi Tim
Your scapes always inspire me.Its good to see that even a lot more skilled forum members have their tanks in a stuggle sometimes.I am not happy about it tho.U have my admiration for being brave in sharing your lows with the  rest of us together with the stunning setups U usually have.
What techniques did U use for cleaning  the anubias?
Regards Konsa


----------



## CooKieS

Good luck, this Time it will be ok!

Bba is always an pain...got rid of mine by very lean dosing


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Those before and after shots are amazing! Good luck with it  keep us informed!...


----------



## Zeus.

Lost for words but thanks for sharing the 'whole' journey. Like Alto said it was looking so good.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thank you for the kind words guys, it means a lot 

Thanks @Konsa that's really nice of you to say so. I think it's important to show warts an' all. Most folk that leave the hobby do so because of algae problems. They can be tackled with knowledge and perseverance, the key is understanding why algae has become a problem so the cause can be treated. In this case I'm sure it was the disintegrating wood producing an overwhelming organic load, so a total reboot was probably the only way forward

And thanks also @CooKieS I hope so, and that I didn't get the diagnosis wrong, and that it was something else besides the wood. I suppose good scientific method would have been to see how the scape faired without it, but I couldn't look at the scape any more.

@Matt @ ScapeEasy and @Zeus. thanks matt and Karl. I'm going to continue the reboot in this journal...for me it's all part and parcel of the same journey. And @oscar it may have all gone Pete Tong but nevertheless...we continue...

P.S. @Konsa nearly forgot, as for cleaning the anubias, I just picked off the infested leaves. They were mainly old emersed growth: you know the old story, dying, releasing organics and feeding the BBA...


----------



## oscar

I have only been in the hobby for a couple of years on/off, gaining knowledge experience from valued members like yourself. I reckon this forum is excellent and has all that is needed for the beginner ( folk like myself ) and the more advanced hobbyist . 
Hopefully you are back soon, take care and bring on the next chapter 

For me i still luv my fluval f90, but very tempted to go evolution aquascaper 900 as is a very contemporary tank/cabinet ..


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

At the moment your empty tank reminds me of a small tank in a small up market shop window  in Melbourne Aust.  It had water in the tank and a small sign saying "Invisible Fish"
People were actually looking and saying they could see fish.

Keith


----------



## alto

Well done on the reboot 

I’m always too impatient to wait for things to get back on the _right _path sooooo late this afternoon I decided to overhaul my main tank - the 90cm that’s visible from everywhere in the open plan room ... it’s simply been growing uglier and uglier   and I’ve been neglecting it rather
I quite liked it initially (until I saw Oliver Knotts Felix Altum tank!) ... then all I could see were my mistakes  

I just checked in here and you’ve got yours sparkling clean and full of possibility

It’s a shame the wood didn’t work, it’s really a beautiful piece


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...


oscar said:


> For me i still luv my fluval f90, but very tempted to go evolution aquascaper 900 as is a very contemporary tank/cabinet ..


Go for it oscar, the 900 is an awesome tank, just the right size, plus you can still keep your f90...there's nothing wrong with MTS 



Keith GH said:


> Tim
> 
> At the moment your empty tank reminds me of a small tank in a small up market shop window  in Melbourne Aust.  It had water in the tank and a small sign saying "Invisible Fish"
> People were actually looking and saying they could see fish.
> 
> Keith


Haha, thanks Keith, I like the look of the empty tank better than the scape 



alto said:


> Well done on the reboot
> 
> I’m always too impatient to wait for things to get back on the _right _path sooooo late this afternoon I decided to overhaul my main tank - the 90cm that’s visible from everywhere in the open plan room ... it’s simply been growing uglier and uglier   and I’ve been neglecting it rather


Snap, that's exactly how I felt. Have you posted a pic somewhere on the forum? I'd like to see that 



alto said:


> It’s a shame the wood didn’t work, it’s really a beautiful piece


It is, you're right. The irony is if I chose to use it again it'd probably be okay since most of the rot might've already taken place, but I don't think I'll be taking the risk 
Another thing that occurred to me yesterday was that I didn't have enough filter media to handle the organic load, As usual I only had enough just to cover the bottom of each tray. I think I'll fill the filter up with it next time. My filter is 150 l/hr overrated for x10 flow anyway.


----------



## Ady34

If it’s not fun it’s not worth it, best moving on to the next and enjoying the journey again, sometimes it’s the only way as the damage has been done.
I will look forward to seeing the next creation.
Cheerio
Ady.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> I will look forward to seeing the next creation.


Thanks Ady, I already have a work in progress.


Ady34 said:


> If it’s not fun it’s not worth it, best moving on to the next and enjoying the journey again, sometimes it’s the only way as the damage has been done.


You're so right. It's also a good philosophy for life in general


----------



## PAYN3Y

I'm looking forward to see what you do next. 

I've given my scape a huge trim in a bid to remove as much BBA as I can. Like you, the large piece of bog-wood sheds an inordinate amount of organics. The amount of crap that comes out of the substrate around it is scary. Oddly I was a few Aquarium Gardens videos and noticed that some of their scapes have BBA. I spoke to them and asked about it and they said they have BBA in most of the tanks and it's just something you have to live with, which is slightly off-putting. 

What wood are you thinking of going with next?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @PAYN3Y you have my sincere sympathy, it's a nightmare. It's a balancing act at the best of times especially with high light tanks. Luckily for AG Steve does a fantastic job maintaining the tanks, so the BBA is kept under control. However, throw something like disintegrating wood in to the mix and keeping a tank algae free becomes a massive challenge.

Most of my tanks have been medium light and until this scape I've only had a problem with BBA once, but that was in a high light Iwagumi, and that was only because the gas ran out whilst I was on holiday. You can see it starting to grow on the tips of the mini hair grass in the pic below. It spread like wildfire after this and the scape was torn down.






What I've experienced this time is in a whole different league tho'...




P.S. I'm going to use Mazi next time. It's been well used in the past, so hopefully no more problems


----------



## Tim Harrison

A work in progress...







by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Daveslaney

Very nice hardscape Tim. 
Lovely nice triangular layout.


----------



## Siege

Just reading your blog Tim. Very interesting and new hardscape looks fantastic. Love the wood.

All BBA now gone at Aquarium Gardens! Have gradually got rid of it over the last month.  Still a stubborn little bit here and there but that is slowly going.

Main key has been increased maintenance time, gone from 4-8 hours a week to 15 hours a week (there are 10 tanks I think).

 My experience with what I’ve been doing (I know a bit academic for you now Tim) - 

- scrubbed the hardscape to death with a wire brush.
- massive use of the turkey baster (blasting whilst siphoning) method
- increased weekly water changes to 100% (75% drain then running water change) 
- when drained spray 3% hydrogen peroxide over the bba and scape in general.
- regular filter cleaning 
- added purigen to the filters
- zero tolerance to bba. If it’s on a leaf, cut the leaf off. If too far gone replace the plant.

Just my experience Looking forward to how your new scape evolves!

S.


----------



## CooKieS

Well, I've to say that it was worth the rescape; the new hardscape looks very nice!


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> Snap, that's exactly how I felt. Have you posted a pic somewhere on the forum? I'd like to see that



Since you asked, you get the “warts an all” shot  

Afternoon coffee






Note all the extraneous bits
pots to be planted (elsewhere)
too many fish (from 90cm)
floating home for Betta in transition- he reacted badly when added directly to tank
extra wood from 90cm

Note the H micrathemoides has suddenly gone rampant - I trimmed it to under 12cm 5days ago


The impulse video is actually somewhat better but no YouTube etc account so not available

ETA and Kessil was only at 40% or so 
Oh ... tank was rescaped almost 4 weeks ago, “new” plants are the E mini, H verticillata, E parvula, rest came out of the holding bin looking rather sad but have shown astounding regrowth which I attribute to the new Tropica Soil (only change in tank maintenance)


----------



## PAYN3Y

Looks a fantastic layout. I'm planing on going triangular on my next scape too. My battle with BBA appears to be improving but I've almost convinced myself to recsape in the new year anyway.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Daveslaney said:


> Very nice hardscape Tim.
> Lovely nice triangular layout.


Thanks Dave...triangular is where it's at for me; due to the position of my tank it's viewed mainly from the righthand corner.



Siege said:


> Just reading your blog Tim. Very interesting and new hardscape looks fantastic. Love the wood.


Thanks Steve, the wood is courtesy of Tom Barr, a while back now. So it's tried and tested and hopefully done leaching organics.



Siege said:


> Main key has been increased maintenance time, gone from 4-8 hours a week to 15 hours a week (there are 10 tanks I think).


That's time very well spent. The showroom scapes look fantastic. I couldn't make it at the weekend but I watched George's video. And thanks for the BBA elimination methodology, Using extreme prejudice is the only way. BTW how long is the H2O2 in contact with plants before the tank is refilled? Just for my own future reference; I've never used it before.



CooKieS said:


> Well, I've to say that it was worth the rescape; the new hardscape looks very nice!


Thanks CooKies, I'm going to live with it a short while before I commit, so it might change a little yet.



alto said:


> Since you asked, you get the “warts an all” shot


That growth is spectacular, and no algae in sight 



PAYN3Y said:


> Looks a fantastic layout. I'm planing on going triangular on my next scape too. My battle with BBA appears to be improving but I've almost convinced myself to recsape in the new year anyway.


Thanks, and good news regarding your fight against BBA. It's always gratifying when your hard work and perseverance pays off, but starting a new journey is always exciting...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Pretty much the final hardscape. Any ideas for planting?...







by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## FishLifeLondon

Lovely hardscape 
From front to back I would choose:
Monte Carlo
Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis
Bucephalandra and Anubias in shaded areas on the wood
Hygrophila Pinnatifida on top of the wood
Rotala Wallichii just behind the focal point (1/3 from the left)
Pogostemon Erectus


----------



## alto

I suffer wood envy 

I really liked Jurijs foreground carpet planting in his latest aquarium  (youtube link)

#60x50x40 scape


----------



## zozo

alto said:


> I suffer wood envy



Size matters..


----------



## Tim Harrison

@FishLifeLondon thanks,, good suggestions 
@alto me too, I like the idea of the different textures and colours. Jurijs has a bit more foreground to play with, but something similar could work.


zozo said:


> Size matters..


Boo...that's terrible


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

I believe it's the girth that's more important. Well you started it! Double entendre's over now, back to scaping.


----------



## Edvet

400 gallons, Bigger IS better


----------



## Tim Harrison

Well guys, I hate to have to say this, but you're all wrong...ultimately, it's what you do with it that matters


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke

Anyone who says bigger is better has obviously never had to carry it up a staircase. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

What with all the innuendo and double entendres I've decided to sub-title this journal "Carry On Scaping", that is at least for the time being ...


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

With your green thumbs what ever you choose it will look fantastic.

Keith


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Keith, I'm still thinking somewhere along traditional Nature Aquarium lines


----------



## Tim Harrison

Now this is it...hardscape definitely finished. I've added another piece of wood and moved the rocks slightly. It's all now cemented in place using the powdered AS and superglue technique...








Also an update on the Venus Flytrap, still going strong on a diet of rainwater and the occasional, once a month, feed of tank water...



by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Man this scape looks incredible! It really was worth the rescape, great job!


----------



## alto

Tank scape and flytrap both look awesome 

Love the substrate slope - I always default on that ... must be my lack of wood  

Plants this weekend?


----------



## foxfish

The Octopus...


----------



## Tim Harrison

@DeepMetropolis thanks 

And thanks @alto too. I wanted to bank the slope up as high as possible. I'm using thin bits of slate as substrate supports, but not sure how well they will work once it's full of water.
I won't be planting it just yet. I'm probably going to try another plantless start, it worked fairly well last time. Also, I can't decide on what plants would look best and where with this scape so still open to suggestions.

Haha @foxfish I suppose it does resemble an octopus, I was aiming for the more windswept or bending in the current look


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

As usual all the hard work has been done and it's looking excellent.

I tried a carnivorous tank once and it never worked successfully.

Keith


----------



## Tim Harrison

The ReBoot journey so far...


----------



## Ady34

Lovely video.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> Lovely video.


Thanks Ady


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

The way you placed the rocks then the DW looks as if in Nature every thing blended in perfectly.

Keith


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Keith GH. Plants arrived today, so will get planting tomorrow. Should be enough, along with the ones I rescued from BBA...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Nice plant selection, lots of stems always help against algae!


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

Looks like you are going to be busy for a few hrs then many more of observing their growth.

Keith


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Really great video Tim, did you lay it out before or just freestyle the layout?
Strong hardscape, will look great in s few weeks.
The flytraps would look great with sundews  idiot! Post Christmas sending is a promise 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## aquacoen

Amazing hard scape! 

(Rogier van Vugt (Dutch botanist) has some interesting posts on carnivorous plants lately:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BrgOjhSl11o/ )


----------



## Marc Davis

Tim Harrison said:


> The ReBoot journey so far...



Love the hardscape. Love the video and subbed to your channel  (MD Fish Tanks)


----------



## Jayefc1

Great vid as normal what's the plant list matey hardscape like amazing by the way


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the kind comments guys 



CooKieS said:


> Nice plant selection, lots of stems always help against algae!


Thanks, I'm hoping algae isn't going to be too much of a problem; I'm a bit dubious about reusing some of the plants rescued from the BBA 


Keith GH said:


> Looks like you are going to be busy for a few hrs


That I am Keith. I had a plumbing emergency in the family bathroom which I had to deal with today  so it looks like I'll be planting tomorrow instead.


Iain Sutherland said:


> did you lay it out before or just freestyle the layout?


Thanks Iain, a bit of both. I used a scape box to work out the basic layout, but it changed a bit when it came to scaping the tank...







aquacoen said:


> (Rogier van Vugt (Dutch botanist) has some interesting posts on carnivorous plants lately:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BrgOjhSl11o/ )


Some nice images thanks for the link.


Marc Davis said:


> Love the video and subbed to your channel  (MD Fish Tanks)


Thanks Marc.


Jayefc1 said:


> what's the plant list matey hardscape like amazing by the way


Plants will be a mix of Crypts, epiphytes, Ludwigia and Rotala stems, some Alternanthera reineckii Mini, and MC and Stauro and a few bits and bobs for the foreground, thanks for asking.


----------



## Jayefc1

Can't wait to see it planted


----------



## Tim Harrison

Planted...





by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Let the fun begin!

Scape looks like a snail to me


----------



## alto

CooKieS said:


> Scape looks like a snail to me


 

Now you’ve done it 
I keep seeing The Snail


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys, I don't see it  you both have very strange imaginations  And @CooKieS I seem to remember that you saw a certain part of the male anatomy in another members scape and compared my last scape to a banana. I think it's time you got some help with that particular fixation 

Anyway, I dislike snails intensely  all except this one, which is one of my favourite works of art. I've seen it up close and personal like, in the Tate Modern  It's huge, and the pic doesn't really do the scale of it justice...tho' maybe it's had a subliminal influence on me. On reflection perhaps my scape follows similar rules, but in 3D 

Henri Matisse (The Snail)


----------



## Keith GH

Tim 

The little hint of red plants lifts the Aquascape to a higher level to what else is there to check out. 

Keith


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Keith, I'm hoping it'll stay that way and that the plant transitions well.
Came down to a very cloudy tank this morning, must be a bacterial bloom, beginning to think I've lost my aquascaping mojo 
On a more cheery note I think my Venus Flytrap has sent out a flower spike, although I've read that might not necessarily be a good thing. Should I cut the spike off ?




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Edvet

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2620.html


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's what I read Ed. But I'm curious to see if I can let it flower and get it to still thrive. But still torn about what to do


----------



## alto

It looks amazingly healthy and possibly more than a single plant, I vote for allowing a single flower this year


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> Came down to a very cloudy tank this morning, must be a bacterial bloom, beginning to think I've lost my aquascaping mojo



Just do a massive (95%) water change and it will look all sparkley again


----------



## Tim Harrison

Good observation alto. It's just occurred to me too, that it might be more than one plant. I'm heavily leaning toward letting it flower now 

And thanks for the advice, I'll do as near as darn it a 100% water change tomorrow. I want to add more substrate to the rear right anyway, and no water will make that easier.


----------



## alto

Some like to wait for any bacterial blooms to disappear “naturally”, I don't see any advantages


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





alto said:


> It looks amazingly healthy and possibly more than a single plant, I vote for allowing a single flower this year


Same for me. The ones we used to have in the lab. flowered fairly regularly and they maintained themselves for ~20 years. It was the <"double glazing that did for them">. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Ady34

Scape looks awesome planted Tim, I don’t see snail in either the tank nor the artwork 
Love Venus fly traps too, great photo 
Bacterial blooms must be the trend at the minute, I have one too and an oily surface even with a skimmer .....I don’t have plants though like your lovely tank


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady, I think the bacterial bloom might be on the way out, the tank wasn't so cloudy this morning. I did a 100% water change today anyway, and all is well so far. Good luck with yours.
I also invested in a surface skimmer, an Eheim Skim 350, well worth it, I don't think I've seen my water surface so clear and ripply. I'm using more CO2 but that's a small price to pay.


----------



## CooKieS

Well, it seems that your scapes inspire me 

Here it is





Not the best pic but you've got the idea.

Anyway, good idea for the eheim skim, it can kill shrimps or small fishes but is very efficiency for surface gaz exchange.
Mine is running 24-7, very useful after trimming plants too!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha, okay @CooKieS , you've got me there, I have to concede I can see what you're getting at now, but I wish I couldn't; snails not being my favourite, an' all  
But on the other hand I suppose being compared to a snail ain't that bad since perhaps it means I may have got the golden ratio, or rule of thirds, intuitively right


----------



## Tim Harrison

Positive phototropism in action; I wish it would hurry up and flower before it grows too tall for the light...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Nice...and what about the tank? I hope Everything is ok this Time?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @CooKieS On the whole it's transitioning quite well. There has been a lot of die off of the MC but the new growth is coming though and taking root. The Stauro has taken a bit of a hit as well, some leaves have started to turn brown and rot. The rest of the plants are growing well though, and so far no sign of the dreaded BBA.





by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Looking great Tim.

Stauro is an tough one, don't worry if it dies, it can grow back anytime and if it does't you could always replace it with some eriocaulon for example. 

Keep up the good work


----------



## Ady34

Looks like quite a lot of growth since planting.
MC and stauro may have taken a hit but there is definitely a lot more volume than the 20th December


----------



## Onoma1

Love the structure and flow of the wood in this scape. Can't wait to see it fully mature.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks again @CooKieS, Stauro can be a bit temperamental. I've planted it before in fresh AS and it did exactly the same thing. Planted it in re-used AS and it was fine 


Ady34 said:


> Looks like quite a lot of growth since planting.


There is quite a lot of new growth Ady, but there is also a lot of die off too. I guess it's just a question of patience, waiting for it to transition 


Onoma1 said:


> Love the structure and flow of the wood in this scape. Can't wait to see it fully mature.


Thanks, I intend to add some more plants to the foreground to provide a little more texture, but I'm going to wait until the MC carpet has transitioned and spread first.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Positive phototropism in action; I wish it would hurry up and flower before it grows too tall for the light...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr



Beautifull flower spike, can't wait to see the actual flower..  Good choice not to cut it.. As the tut says, it takes a skilled flytrap grower to make it survive in cultivation after flowering. Than how do you ever get skilled with cutting off that flower?.

Good luck..


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha, okay @CooKieS , you've got me there, I have to concede I can see what you're getting at now, but I wish I couldn't; snails not being my favourite, an' all
> But on the other hand I suppose being compared to a snail ain't that bad since perhaps it means I may have got the golden ratio, or rule of thirds, intuitively right



I hear you!?...
https://physics.aps.org/story/v17/st8


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Than how do you ever get skilled with cutting off that flower?.


Thanks Marcel, that's a very good point. I think there are 3 plants in total so if the worst come to the worst, I'll still have 2 left. I imagine the key will be feeding though. I'm still feeding them occasionally with tank water. See how it goes.


zozo said:


> I hear you!?...


It seems strange that the same shape keeps cropping up in nature, and with different functions. I guess when it comes to form and function in nature there is a fundamental physics underlying 3.5 billion years of evolution.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> I imagine the key will be feeding though. I'm still feeding them occasionally with tank water. See how it goes.



They like to make their own nitrogene from proteine and don't like nitrogene it at their roots. At least not in the form of salt.. Even tap water seems in many occasions to agrsive for them to handle. They can not utilize it fast enough and than it accumulates making the substrate, especialy with fertilized tank water, to salty in the end killing the plant.

Best changes for succes is strickly use rain, RO or Demi water and feed them sparsly with, if you can catch for them house flies or if you have froozen daphnia or bloodworn in the freezer. Than feed them that simmultaniosly with the fish. Just a tiny bit in the trap. The trap closes and it'll feed on that, it'll start disolving it with an enzyme produced by itself when the trap is triggered. It doesn't necessarily need to be a stincky moist pulp and risking a rotting process. If you take a little pot dried turtle food home from the LFS what ever it is probably dried mealworm etc. should do as well. Easier to apply and less messy. And small pot of turtle food lasts you an awfull long time.

But you have to make a buzzing sound when feeding them or else they wont accept it..  (I once told the kids and they did..)



Tim Harrison said:


> It seems strange that the same shape keeps cropping up in nature, and with different functions. I guess when it comes to form and function in nature there is a fundamental physics underlying 3.5 billion years of evolution.



Maybe if we ever find out what life realy is we finaly understand.. Imho i think it has a long way to go, since life seems to be much more intelligent than we are in hiding secrets..


----------



## Tim Harrison

You're right of course, pretty much everything I've read on carnivorous plants puts great emphasis on not fertilising them, especially Venus flytraps. Some advocate a very weak foliar feed once a month at most.
Problem is foliar feeding can sometimes trigger the traps, and that's not good either since they die about the 3rd time around. Same with feeding insects etc.

So it's a bit of a cost benefit catch 22 situation. For instance, does the energy gained from feeding on an insect = the energy needed to close a trap, and digest it, and if need be grow a new catcher etc? Well I guess so, at least in the wild, but just as many growers tell you to not to feed them at all, neither insects nor fertiliser. But then the same folk may also tell you to cut the flower stalks off as well, so as not to cost the plant too much 

Basically, I'm choosing to very cautiously ignore some of what I've read and conduct a little experiment to see if I can get it to grow through root uptake, without it loosing it's catchers, and so far mine has put out several new catchers. But I know, there's a distinct possibility that it could still end badly  This is an interesting paper on the subject https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/nph.13120


----------



## zozo

Indeed a very intersting paper.. Thanks for sharing..

They obviously also do root feed, since the nurseries that cultivate them start out and or even <sell young plants invitro on agar agar> or something like it. I guess, all carnivor plants if spread from seeds or grown from tissue culture start out as non carnivorous youngster depending in their roots. Can't imagine they lose this abillity and maturing and developing into exclusive carnivorous. Same can be seen with our famous young utricularia so small there yet aint a single utricle to find on it.

Me too, i'm still far from the skilled carni grower, till now what ever i tried and tried quite a lot different sp. at some point i failed by making mistakes. Caring it to death by beeing over protective, not giving it the correct invironment or killing it by neglect. Thus for me also i have to depend on a lot of theorizing my previous failed experiments.

Till now a i had the longest succeses with using exclusively distiled water.. And than i have to go into theory again also the longest succes on organic peat soil. Thinking it might have a beter biological culture in it. Than bateria converting the soil provide nutrients such as Nitrogen and maybe also some Ammonia for the plant to survive a while without catching anything. Than it might need a different approach if parts perlite and sand are used with less bioload.

Thinking about it, it raises the question never thought of before. What do the nurseries put into the agar agar when growing these plants invitro? There must be a fert scheme tut to be found about it that holds some clues.


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Thinking about it, it raises the question never thought of before. What do the nurseries put into the agar agar when growing these plants invitro? There must be a fert scheme tut to be found about it that holds some clues.


It seems to be shrouded in mystery; tricks of the trade and all that malarky. They must be fairly easy to propagate since they are often available and cheap to buy. Perhaps the mythology behind the care of carnivorous plants has been generated by the trade so they don't last too long, therefore maintaining sales and perpetuating the industry. After all it's not an unheard of business model, and it's something we're all familiar with in the aquarium trade, both plants and critters...


----------



## zozo

The trade uses controlled greenhouses.. 90% of the public doesn't.. That might be 60% of the secret..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just performed a 90% water change, and switched the Twinstar on, how about this for O2 saturation...



by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Fizzy


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finally got around to editing the planting video: NatureScape ReBoot Part 2 Planting...


----------



## Ady34

Great video, what do you use to film Tim? 
Do you just edit with the Mac software?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady 
I use my iPhone 8 to film, and yes I just use iMove to edit.


----------



## Jayefc1

Looking good mate and nice vid


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Jayefc1, meant to edit and publish the video a while ago, but somehow never got around to it.


----------



## zozo

The video shows nicely the dimensions of the tank.. And the scaping skills to use it to the max and make it look far bigger than it realy is. In a front photo only it could be any size. ... Excelent work..  And excelent hardscape choices..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel


----------



## Jayefc1

Haha your a busy man that's for sure Tim I just got 6 pearl dannios for sweet knowles there a very beautiful fish


----------



## Tim Harrison

My Venus flytrap has finally started to flower...


IMG_1934 by Tim Harrison


----------



## Tim Harrison

About as good as it got...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## three-fingers

Nice pictures! 

Rub/shake the flowers a bit and you might get seeds (they can self pollinate).  You can also cut the slower stalk and use it to propagate a clone by just sticking it in the media next to the parent (low success rate, but also very low-effort and has worked for me a couple of times).  _Dionaea _flowers aren't exactly the most spectacular, unless I want to propagate them I always leave the flowers on too though. 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, but ideally give the plant a cool dormancy once a year or so, you may want to think about leaving it outdoors for a period next winter. Repeat flowerings with no dormancy period reduce the lifespan of the plant.


----------



## CooKieS

And the tank?  Nice flower btw


----------



## Tim Harrison

@three-fingers thanks for the tips. I've often wondered what folk do to give VFT a dormancy period. I don't have a greenhouse so leaving it outdoors risks frost damage or death.
I'm thinking that dormancy periods are usually triggered by changes in temp, light intensity, spectrum and day length. I have mine under an artificial light for around 12-14 hrs a day, so I'm wondering if it would actually benefit from a dormant period anyway?
It occurs to me that it only becomes dormant because there aren't enough prey items in the winter and/or photosynthesis isn't efficient enough to keep the plant alive. In other words the cost benefit of being active in winter doesn't add up.
Maybe it's kind of like Aponogetons in a way. Purists tell you that the bulbs needs a rest, but in actual fact most don't. It's just an adaptation to seasonally fluctuating water levels in the wild.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll find out for myself soon enough 



CooKieS said:


> And the tank?  Nice flower btw


It's doing fine thanks. I didn't even get any diatoms this time around, that is if you don't count a little on the rocks, despite using fresh AS straight out of the bag.
I did a 100% water change yesterday and added another rock and a couple of pieces of manzi and planted some more Stauro, Ranunculus, Riccadia (thanks @Siege), and a few bits of Marsilea quadrifolia. And one mother of a Buce Theia, which is a cracking plant that Dave from @Aquarium Gardens pulled out for me.

I'll post some update pics later


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> I'm thinking that dormancy periods are usually triggered by changes in light intensity, spectrum and day length. I have mine under an artificial light for around 12-14 hrs a day, so I'm wondering if it would actually benefit from a dormant period anyway?



You might find this intersting.. 
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2420.html

Thus experiences differ since cultivation probably also can fool a plants rythm and even the experts like to disagree eachother..



in general, when the plants approaches dormancy periode, it will tell you than you need to act accordingly if you like it to survive.
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2380.html

It kinda gets exciting in your case, in nature or window sill cultivation it goes through domancy period between December and februari.
Your's obviously is artificialy fooled or maybe just a bit late and triggered to flower in this periode..  Yet not realy found theories about what if the plant tells you it wants dormancy periode durring comming spring. Than you need to create an artificial winter?.  The refrigerator trick?


----------



## three-fingers

Yep, some people do put them in their fridge for a dormant period lol, I don't really like that idea though as I would prefer them to have some light and circulation.  While lighting triggers do help to signal dormancy, they do seem to have an actual requirement for a cold rest period as well, as without the cold they will start flowering sooner and over a longer period of time, weakening the plant. 

I just put mine in a standard 14l bucket (£1 at Tesco, used for water changes) covered partially with a glass panel. I actually left one outdoors with no cover one winter and it froze solid and got covered in snow, but still survived and thrived in the summer.  I used to set up a plastic mini-greenhouse in late autumn for my _Dionaea _and _Drosera_, but it blew away a couple of years ago and I haven't bothered to get a new one yet. Even in here cold and windy Edinburgh I personally find them to be much more resilient plants than people tend to give them credit for!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the comments and tips both, and links Marcel, It seems there's not much in the way of definitive info out there, one of the reasons I'm cautiously treading my own path with this. 
There are 3 individual plants in the pot and they are all chucking out new catchers at quite a high rate, much faster than old ones are dying. So I'm guessing it's not ready to hibernate yet. 
@three-fingers...surviving an Edinburgh winter, that's really surprising, I hadn't realised they were so hardy.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Update photo, it's still very much a work in progress and a has a lot of growing to do...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Ed Wiser

Tim like the plants around the base of the wood. The flow of the planting is very nice.


----------



## PAYN3Y

Plants looking very healthy. Is that Christmas moss?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Ed Wiser and @PAYN3Y. Yes mostly, it's mini Christmas moss. The plant near the apex of the DW is Riccardia. and there's some Fissidens in there somewhere as well.


----------



## PAYN3Y

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks @Ed Wiser and @PAYN3Y. Yes mostly, it's mini Christmas moss. The plant near the apex of the DW is Riccardia. and there's some Fissidens in there somewhere as well.



My Christmas moss grows really well but it has a tendency to break away and come unstuck when it grows. I've had to try and find a technique to trim it without ending up with bits all over the tank as I've found it establishing itself in my Eliocharis carpet. Do all mosses behave this way or are some easier to grip and maintain than others?


----------



## Tim Harrison

I think it helps if you use thread to attach it rather than glue. If you have to use glue another technique is to use it liberally and cut the moss in to smaller bits and secure it that way. Jurijs demonstrates 12:23 mins in...



Some folk trim and syphon at the same time...


----------



## Ady34

The theia is my favourite buce.
Looks stunning Tim.


----------



## CooKieS

Lovely growth and plant selection


----------



## Harry H

Tim Harrison said:


> Update photo, it's still very much a work in progress and a has a lot of growing to do...


@Tim Harrison your tank is absolutely beautiful, from the beginning hardscape, the plant selection and how they flow, it looks busy but not chaotic, cannot wait to see when fully matured. Hats off to you


----------



## Jayefc1

Whoop whoop a pic of the tank looks handsome matey love the buce too Ady


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> The theia is my favourite buce.


Thanks Ady, when I got it home I realised it was much bigger than I'd thought and had to shoehorn it in. It's in a much brighter position than I would have liked, it might get covered in GSA given time.

Thanks also @CooKieS, @Harry H and @Jayefc1 for the kind comments


----------



## Tim Harrison

A quiet thought...




100% water change...








by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Zeus.

Looking great Tim with gentle pearling and no algae


----------



## CooKieS

Why 100% WC?

Looks very healthy! Bravo 

I'm getting some bba on my tank, on the top woods, doesn't bother me for now but I've to keep an eye on that horrible thing


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Zeus. the vid was taken just after water change today with light on max, so cheating slightly, but ordinarily the plants pearl like that as the photoperiod progresses.

@CooKieS Thanks, just because I can...I swapped from carrying buckets to using a hose, so it's no extra work 
Don't mention bba  So far I haven't any noticeable algae.


----------



## Ady34

Tank looks so good, love the plant selection and the health of them all too.


Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks @Zeus. the vid was taken just after water change today with light on max, so cheating slightly, but ordinarily the plants pearl like that as the photoperiod progresses.


Lol, I did exactly the same thing the other night after a water change, only time I’ve ever seen my plants pearling though


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> Don't mention bba



Well my rocks are covered with it IMO but the cleanup crew keep it well trimmed so rocks just have a natural dark green appearance


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> Tank looks so good, love the plant selection and the health of them all too.


Thanks Ady, instead of agonising over which plants would suit the scape I just bought the ones I liked the most. I've started to increase the light intensity by 5% up to 65% now, I'll see how it goes with regards to plant health and algae. The aim is to try and redden the stems at the back up a bit.


Ady34 said:


> Lol, I did exactly the same thing the other night after a water change, only time I’ve ever seen my plants pearling though


Tricks of the trade


----------



## CooKieS

Nice, any plans on livestock yet?


----------



## Costa

Very nice Tim! Never had a planted tank without algae, I guess your tank must be very boring and unchallenging


----------



## Fred13

Tim Harrison said:


> Just performed a 90% water change, and switched the Twinstar on, how about this for O2 saturation...
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


Why that much cloudy?! Nice o2 though )  I have the twinstar but i haven't used it yet.. Could you please tell me how often it turns on?


----------



## Ady34

Costa said:


> Very nice Tim! Never had a planted tank without algae, I guess your tank must be very boring and unchallenging



I reckon the challenge is keeping it that way....


----------



## Filip Krupa

Mesmerising...

Maybe one day I might have such aquascaping skills!

Fil


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

A beautiful and very relaxing video to watch.  

Keith


----------



## CooKieS

Costa said:


> Very nice Tim! Never had a planted tank without algae, I guess your tank must be very boring and unchallenging



Don't worry, they always come, soon or later


----------



## Tim Harrison

CooKieS said:


> Nice, any plans on livestock yet?


I'm just going to throw the fish I had before back in; they're in a holding tank atm. I'll transfer them sometime next week..then no more 100% water changes.


Costa said:


> Very nice Tim! Never had a planted tank without algae, I guess your tank must be very boring and unchallenging


Thanks, I don't really ever get that much, usually just some GSA on slower growing anubias and buces, but then my light intensity is relatively low and photoperiod short. The exception was the scape before; I had serious algae issues, but I reckon that was because the DW I used was disintegrating.
However, I'm going to be turning up the intensity on this scape, in the spirit of experimentation and as part of the learning process, so we will see...


Fred13 said:


> Why that much cloudy?! Nice o2 though )  I have the twinstar but i haven't used it yet.. Could you please tell me how often it turns on?


Probably due to O2 saturation; the tank has just had a water change so it'll be quite high, ordinarily it doesn't turn the water that cloudy. The Twinstar works on an algorithm so tbh I'm not sure. Mine seems to come on every hour or two. Either way, I reset it after the weekly water change.


Ady34 said:


> I reckon the challenge is keeping it that way....


Amen to that...


Filip Krupa said:


> Mesmerising...Maybe one day I might have such aquascaping skills!Fil


Thanks Filip, honestly you don't seem to be doing too badly at all. The plant growth you're getting in your monster tank is fantastic.


Keith GH said:


> Tim
> 
> A beautiful and very relaxing video to watch.
> 
> Keith


Thanks Keith, I'm thinking of doing an extended cut at some point 


CooKieS said:


> Don't worry, they always come, soon or later


Hopefully, much later...


----------



## Steve Buce

Superb looking tank Tim


----------



## Duplicareus

Lovely!

Well it must be! Tropica as your tank in their insta feed! Great work


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Steve Buce and @Duplicareus, they do have my tank on their feed, thanks for mentioning that, and it's been getting some nice feedback...https://www.instagram.com/p/BuJj7g7BFGY/


----------



## Jayefc1

Well deserved to mate looks good


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Jayefc1


Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks @Steve Buce and @Duplicareus, they do have my tank on their feed, thanks for mentioning that, and it's been getting some nice feedback...https://www.instagram.com/p/BuJj7g7BFGY/


----------



## Ady34

Yep, credit where it’s due, the tank looks stunning and plant health impeccable. It’s in tropicas best interest to showcase examples like this and always nice as an aquascaper to have some recognition of quality work


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady, that's really nice of you to say so


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha, the photo below has also been entered in to the Tropica Community feature, "Just Planted" it's entry number 10...don't forget to vote  https://www.instagram.com/p/BuMURrkBhNe/


----------



## Siege

Duly voted. I think your tank really stands out.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for your support guys


----------



## CooKieS

Are you gonna suscribe this tank to iaplc Tim?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Not sure it'll be good or big enough, but I've kind of thought about entering it in to a competition or two. Thanks for asking


----------



## CooKieS

Tim Harrison said:


> Not sure it'll be good or big enough, but I've kind of thought about entering it in to a competition or two. Thanks for asking



You should! Always good to participate with a nice nature style scape like yours!


----------



## DeepMetropolis

It is good enough, don't worry it looks great!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Quick update. Gave the scape a good trim yesterday. The stems have been trimmed several times but this was the first time I've trimmed the MC carpet. The stauro was also looking ropey in places (old emersed leaves hanging on) so that got hacked back as well.
I had to get rid of the male ram, it was bullying the female, and pretty much every fish in the tank, not the most relaxing viewing, and the female was beginning to look drawn and ill. She's recovering still but is looking much better.
















by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Jayefc1

Pipes could do with a clean Tim just saying lol looks good though mate


----------



## alto

Love this Snail Tank 
(not just any snail, think 60’s era Japanese kaiju  ... sadly I’ve no talent at creating my own)


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> get rid of the male ram



- allow your cat to go bucket fishing 
- return to (unsuspecting) shop
- donate his body to science


----------



## foxfish

alto said:


> Love this Snail Tank
> (not just any snail, think 60’s era Japanese kaiju  ... sadly I’ve no talent at creating my own)


Not so much the octopus tank now....


----------



## alto

Damn you’re right  
It’s The Eye 
and now I can’t unsee it


----------



## sciencefiction

alto said:


> and now I can’t unsee it


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...I think ?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thought I'd make a post trim video...


----------



## alto

Brilliant video 

Moss trim looks perfect  

but I need a plant list reminder 
(or an update post edit on page 1 so I can find the latest tank details  )

I couldn’t decided which Rotala is which  - though I did finally find the plant ‘baggie’ photo 
R yao yai - similar to ‘orange juice’ or ‘colorata’ or yet another variant?
R Vietnam - same as the H’ra variant or yet another?


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Nice vid, did a see some Hyphessobrycon Takasei ?


----------



## CooKieS

DeepMetropolis said:


> Nice vid, did a see some Hyphessobrycon Takasei ?



Those are hyphessobrycon roseus; one of my fav too:






Takasei are very hard to find because wild caught...unfortunately.


----------



## Tim Harrison

alto said:


> Brilliant video


Thanks alto, the video has been helpful at least, close up I noticed a few deficiencies and a few gammy leaves, from the scapes last incarnation, I'd missed 


alto said:


> R yao yai - similar to ‘orange juice’ or ‘colorata’ or yet another variant?
> R Vietnam - same as the H’ra variant or yet another?


Initially all of those and probably more, not sure what's left now though. I suspect the majority are colorata, I'm gradually increasing the light intensity, if they decide to colour up then I might be able to ID them better.


alto said:


> but I need a plant list reminder


The rest..._Marsilea hirsuta and quadrifolia, Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' ,Staurogyne repens, Hydrocotyle verticillata, Ranunculus inundatus, Cryptocoryne parva, Cryptocoryne walkeri "Legroi", Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini'.
B. spec. 'Brownie' (has melted, might come back), B. Theia, A. nana bonzai, B. heudelotii (transferred from one tank to another for 8 years) B. difformis (all but melted, no surprise there), M. pteropus 'Narrow', R. chamedryfolia (not doing very well), V. sp. "Mini Christmas" moss, Fissidens sp._
I think that's all 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Nice vid, did a see some Hyphessobrycon Takasei ?


Thanks... you're not the first to make that mistake  It's like @CooKieS said they're _H. roseus. _£1.00 each from Pets @ Home, they didn't actually know what they were; had them marked up as white tipped tetras . I did tell them but they weren't bothered; not their usual stock apparently.


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Very nice fish the white highlights on the fins makes them pop even more. You paid a really good price 
Was just searching for some fish to add to my bedroom tank got a school of h. amandae and a school of pygmy cory's  was looking at takasei cause they are small also and very beautiful but I think i go for a small school of h. megalopterus that would look  a bit like a school of altums compared the other small fish..

B. difformis hasn't worked for me also, once it transfers to submerged form it looks like some alien moss.. :S


----------



## Tim Harrison

Scruffy the cat, ever hopeful of getting in to the study to drink from my aquarium. Not happening...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Natasha

We lost this battle and our cats now only drink from the tanks. Great indicator of water quality.


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

Once Scruffy learns to jump up the open the door its drink time.

Keith


----------



## sciencefiction

Tim Harrison said:


> Scruffy the cat, ever hopeful of getting in to the study to drink from my aquarium. Not happening...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr



Looking at his dedicated stare,Tim,he's already done it,so lets fast forward and hear the next part of the story


----------



## Keith GH

Tim

Cats are far more intelligent than many humans think.

Clever Cats opening doors 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cle...=chrome..69i57j69i61&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8





Keith


----------



## Fiske

Natasha said:


> We lost this battle and our cats now only drink from the tanks. Great indicator of water quality.


Seeing what and where our yard cats drink, I'm not so sure about that. 
They actually scorn fresh water from the tap, much preferring a leftover bucket full of rainwater and rotting leaves.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





Fiske said:


> They actually scorn fresh water from the tap, much preferring a leftover bucket full of rainwater and rotting leaves.


Same for all the cats I've ever kept.

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

Even worse, i once had a fluffy fur keychain i got for christmass.. One day i saw my cat running outside dragging my keys around the neighbourhood. 



Fiske said:


> rainwater and rotting leaves.



Nothing wrong with a healthy portion of both in your aqaurium.. Old dead leaves falling from the tree and decaying in the water release lots of goodies.
Tannins etc. it's anticeptic, an Algaecide, a Fungicide and it's food for micro organisme which again is food for fish(fry).  Some professors say, you can't have enough of it, for so far the healthy portion..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Natasha said:


> We lost this battle and our cats now only drink from the tanks. Great indicator of water quality.


I'm not so sure about it being a great indicator of water quality either  He has freshwater in several different places throughout the house and just like Darrel's (@dw1305) and @Fiske cats he still prefers to drink from my tank and failing that muddy puddles 


Keith GH said:


> Tim Once Scruffy learns to jump up the open the door its drink time. Keith


Thankfully Keith he never learnt to do that he just sits there and howls at anyone that will listen, hoping they'll let him in.


sciencefiction said:


> Looking at his dedicated stare,Tim,he's already done it,so lets fast forward and hear the next part of the story


I strongly suspect that my kids let him in when I'm not there and my wife nearly always leaves the door open accidentally on purpose 


zozo said:


> Nothing wrong with a healthy portion of both in your aqaurium.. Old dead leaves falling from the tree and decaying in the water release lots of goodies.
> Tannins etc. it's anticeptic, an Algaecide, a Fungicide and it's food for micro organisme which again is food for fish(fry).  Some professors say, you can't have enough of it, for so far the healthy portion..


That would explain a lot Marcel...

Leave the door open by mistake and before you can blink this is what happens...Weeping Angels have nothing on Scruffy...


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> That would explain a lot Marcel...



Probably, clean tap water doesn't smell healthy enough for a cat to drink from.. It only drinks it if its locked up and realy thursty.


----------



## Fiske

It least that's just a cat. I had an 8 year old hanging like that on to the edge of my EA600 yesterday. I nearly p**ped my pants big time. 

I like your cat, he's very interested in aquascaping, I can see that


----------



## Keith GH

Drinking water when ours were aloud outside they would often drink the dirty water I had for the birds.

As our water is highly chlorinated they only have pre boiled and left on the bench in a jug ready to use when it cools down.

Keith


----------



## sciencefiction

You're all complaining about some water. My cat used to eat the fish's blood worms and brine shrimp. It would be the only food he'd meow about and he stole it on a few occasions while I was defrosting it.


----------



## Fiske

sciencefiction said:


> You're all complaining about some water. My cat used to eat the fish's blood worms and brine shrimp. It would be the only food he'd meow about and he stole it on a few occasions while I was defrosting it.



Don't let anyone know! The producers will label it "Cat Treats" and charge double! 

Also, I now consider this thread completely derailed. Back to plants and catfish... Ahem. ..


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Our cat doesn't even look at the aquarium. He only likes chicken and catches birds..


----------



## Keith GH

We had one cat that would bring fallen Camelia flowers to the front door and howl to let us know what she had done.   

Keith


----------



## Jayefc1

My cat sits on the arm.of the sofa watching the tank for hours or he falls asleep watching it then falls of the arm of the sofa lands on his feet and walks away like nothing happened so funny


----------



## Tim Harrison

Some update pics...












by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## sciencefiction

It's looking great Tim.


----------



## Jayefc1

The octopus looks amazing mate heard anything back.from tropica


----------



## oscar

Tim Harrison said:


> Some update pics...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


Stunning aquascape, plants look so healthy


----------



## CooKieS

Looking lush! 

What sp is that rotala in the back? H´ra or rotundifolia ? Thanks

Yao yai?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the nice comments guys 


CooKieS said:


> What sp is that rotala in the back? H´ra or rotundifolia ? Thanks


Not sure really, started with pretty much every type of rotala I could get my hands on, but I think they're mostly colorata now.


----------



## zozo

A gorgious plessure to watch. And that Rainbow at the backpanel gives it a very idyllic touch..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, I think the rainbow effect is mostly down to the IKEA LEDs.


----------



## Tim Harrison

So, I've been thinking for a while that although it's a stunning plant the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini', just isn't working in this scape. The leaves are too big and it really needs something with finer leaves that also has colour...Maybe Hygrophila 'Araguaia' would be a better alternative. Thoughts anyone?




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## GHNelson

Ludwigia mini super red...try and keep it compact!


----------



## akwarium

hygrophyla "araguaia"  would give a nice contrast in leaf shape with the hydrotocyle, great idea.
Amania sp bonsai, or at least the plant sold under that name, might be nice. Didiplis diandra can be very pretty as midground plant. 
Ludwigia sp white. might be something very different but would also provide a contrast in color.


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> leaves are too big and it really needs something with finer leaves that also has colour


this is alway my feeling about A r ‘Mini’ as well, it grows shorter than regular A r varieties, but leaf size remains similar so it’s not an easy plant to include in a scape 

I think H ‘Araguaia’ is easier to keep trimmed short (than some of the other stem plants), but it can still have quite a long leaf under good light, CO2, nutrition 
I suspect D diandra will need more trim maintenance as faster growth, but the leaf is much more delicate - degree of red seems more variable ... one of my favorites that’s no longer available locally since Tropica removed it (again I’m hopeful it will return as a tissue culture)


----------



## GHNelson

Or Rotala mexicana "Goias"....
hoggie


----------



## zozo

hogan53 said:


> Or Rotala mexicana "Goias"....
> hoggie



Beautifull little stincker.. Looks gorgious but smells awfull when its trimmed.


----------



## GHNelson

….Ive got some...still only babies yet!....


----------



## CooKieS

Ludwigia sp red mini from ada?


----------



## CooKieS

CooKieS said:


> Ludwigia sp red mini from ada?



Sorry, I wanted to say rotala macrandra mini butterfly from ada or green aqua, cheers
https://www.aquasabi.com/Rotala-macrandra-Mini-ADA-In-Vitro-M


----------



## rebel

Did you swap the Radeon to T5? Any reason? Thanks!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Some great suggestions guys, thanks. @CooKieS I like the idea of S rotala macrandra mini butterfly, and @hogan53 Rotala mexicana "Goias". Both don't grow very tall so keeping them short and compact won't be too difficult, I hope. But everywhere I've looked is sold out .



rebel said:


> Did you swap the Radeon to T5? Any reason? Thanks!


No it's a Twinstar S series. The Radion didn't really provide the even spread of light that I needed to grow the plants I liked, and I had to be clever with the hardscape to ensure that it didn't cast too much shadow. 
Shame, I loved the glitter lines, which I miss now. I suppose I could always buy a second Radion to give more even spread, though, but finding one cheap enough proved challenging.


----------



## GHNelson

I can send you a few sprigs!...
hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Hoggie, that'd be great. I'll pm you


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini', just isn't working in this scape. The leaves are too big



I have the same issue with mine- 'Big Leaves', so  closely to find my replacement  - couldn't really watch this thread more closely than I do already


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Rotala mexicana "Goias". Both don't grow very tall so keeping them short and compact won't be too difficult, I hope.



I've grown it a few years back for a while.. A very beautifull, verstatile but also demanding plant in need of a specific user guide per given conditions.
It likes to stay low and creep over the substrate and roots very shallow from the short internodes. I guess in my case it was a light issue, definitivly not CO².. Ive seen pictures of it growing pretty erect in full color in ample light.

If it stays low and starts creeping with the stem laying on the substrate it can be a messy plant to maintain with rooting it up. Its also very brittle stems snap easily. And as said before its a stincker..

Even in my case with the conditions not 100% perfect it's realy a stunner.

And its a rather difficult dry starter, very difficult to grow emersed, that's likely the case its rare in the trade..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Some pretty impressive O2 bubbles on the _H. verticillata_...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## soggybongo

Tim Harrison said:


> So, I've been thinking for a while that although it's a stunning plant the Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini', just isn't working in this scape. The leaves are too big and it really needs something with finer leaves that also has colour...Maybe Hygrophila 'Araguaia' would be a better alternative. Thoughts anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr



I quite like it tbh @Tim Harrison, you could snip off a few outer leaves to keep it compact.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Alternanthera reineckii (*not so*) 'Mini' is taking over...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Nice plant but definitively an bit too large for this tank.

Did you find any replacement yet?

Nice to see small batches of BBA on the wood, got the same on my tank and I like to burn it with liquid carbon.


----------



## Konsa

Hi Tim another plant to consider is Cryprocorine albida brown.Stunning  little fine leaved crypt
Regards Konsa


----------



## Tim Harrison

CooKieS said:


> Did you find any replacement yet?


@hogan53 kindly sent me a few stems of Rotala mexicana "Goias", and a few others, which I'm hoping will take hold and grow well.


Konsa said:


> Hi Tim another plant to consider is Cryprocorine albida brown.Stunning little fine leaved crypt Regards Konsa


I like that idea, and I have been thinking along those lines as well 


CooKieS said:


> Nice to see small batches of BBA on the wood


Not sure that it is. It's bright green and quite attractive, and has been present almost from the beginning.


----------



## Jayefc1

Looking good Tim.i quiet like the idea of outer leaves off and keep.it compact the flash of red is eye catching


----------



## three-fingers

Tim Harrison said:


> Some pretty impressive O2 bubbles on the _H. verticillata_...


Your making me want to start adding CO2 again, beautiful pearling! Was this taken mid-photoperiod or just after a water change?


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Some pretty impressive O2 bubbles on the _H. verticillata_...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr



Looks like a little cute Fairy Garden..  With the pearling hydrocotyl leaves stickin up like little mushrooms..


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> Some pretty impressive O2 bubbles on the _H. verticillata_...



Do like _H. verticillata _in my tank also, does spread pretty quick but not as fast as Japan, but it is easy to keep under control IME Yours seems a bit more compact than mine (shorter stems) probably due to the more intense light_. Alternanthera reineckii  'Mini' _ looks really healthly with only one leaf being being curly also  trim mine back this week due to big leaves also. If only the leaves was smaller  would of thought with your intese light the leaves would of been smaller 
Tank is looking great Tim all the same


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the comments guys.

Thanks @Jayefc1 I must admit I'm a bit loath to get rid of it but it's the leaf size that's the problem 

@three-fingers the image was taken toward the end of the photoperiod, but I had changed about 95% of the water before it started. The base board the tank sits on had blown due to water penetration, drips from where the cat had been drinking from the tank  I had to drain the tank to get it on to a new board. Scruffy is definitely banned from the study now...

@zozo, my wife said something very similar Marcel, and she is very intrigued by the "mushroom type plant". She reckons my scapes have a fantasy element to them 

Thanks @Zeus. light intensity is at 85% now but it doesn't seem to have any effect on leaf size, so far. I'm going to dial up the intensity to 100% if I can, and then I'll increase the photoperiod from 6 hrs to 8hrs - 15 mins a week.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Have just given the A. mini a trim and put the cuttings up for donation. It's left a bit of a hole in the scape, but I like it better already...




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Scale is already better!


----------



## Jayefc1

That looks loads better it is a shame it's not more M of a mini than it actually is


----------



## Tim Harrison

You know how it is...you're looking at your scape thinking, _that looks a bit untidy I'd better do a bit of light trimming_...
Before you know it 3 hours have passed and you've a bucket full of (Edvet's) Finest Green...





I've been gradually increasing the light intensity and the plants are growing like weeds. I've ditched the rest of the _A. reineckii_ 'Mini', and have replaced it with Ludwigia sp. Mini Super Red, some I already had and some kindly given to me by Hoggie (@hogan53 ); hopefully I can keep it small and compact. I've also trimmed the Rotala stems at the back to near substrate level and replanted the tops. They've been trimmed several times before and now they'll be fine for several more.

Just a quick (and shaky) iPhone video...


----------



## Jayefc1

Does look better with out the ar mate


----------



## Tim Harrison

Light intensity is at 90% and that seems to be the magic number, my Rotala is finally turning red...





by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Jayefc1

Looks so healthy mate really good


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Good job, my rotala Yao Yai only get redder near the top of the tank..


----------



## Jayefc1

Is that the Rotala Wallichii Tim


----------



## Tim Harrison

Jayefc1 said:


> Is that the Rotala Wallichii Tim


I started out with several varieties/species, now I'm not sure what's left


----------



## Jayefc1

Lol that's fair enough


----------



## GHNelson

Rotala sp Wallichii.
Top Right Picture....


 
hoggie


----------



## Jayefc1

Tim's looks like that I think dont you


----------



## GHNelson

No...Looks like Rotala sp rotundifolia or Rotala sp Colorata!
Rotala sp Colorata is the bottom right picture in the collage.....
hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison

I think hoggie is right, most of it, if not all, is probably Colorata...
It's definitely the most vigorous and probably saw the other species/varieties off.


----------



## CooKieS

That is h'ra/colorata,
Nice plant, needs lot of light to get red.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Had a good maintenance session today. And I also redistributed the moss over some more of the branches.
Popped in to Pets at Home to buy a net and found a male companion for my female Ram. I'l take a pic when he stops sulking and finally comes out of hiding.
I know that P@H are much maligned for the quality of their fish, but for my money the one at Beaumont Leys has the best kept fish in Leicester...so far.




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Flapper2k

I've visited the thread a few times and noticed I hadn't commented on how much I like this tank   such a great Layout


----------



## GHNelson

Hi Tim
What's your water parameters roughly...... in this aquarium!
hoggie


----------



## Jayefc1

Used to live in Beaumont Lees mate well just round the corner anstey and was the head chef at rothley court hotel lol sorry little bit of topic haha


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Flapper2k thanks 


hogan53 said:


> Hi Tim
> What's your water parameters roughly...... in this aquarium!
> hoggie


Hi Hoggie, I don't often test my water parameters. But I've some idea from the water report. The water is medium hard, which for me is luxury since I've always previously lived in areas with very hard water. Other than that I think the pH is just the wrong side of 7 and drops about a point to around 6 with CO2. 


Jayefc1 said:


> Used to live in Beaumont Lees mate well just round the corner anstey and was the head chef at rothley court hotel lol sorry little bit of topic haha


Small world, Swadlincote ain't a million miles away either


----------



## Jayefc1

No it's not mate I still work at lcfc from time to time too


----------



## Tim Harrison

You know that male Ram I picked up from P@H....well I think it might be another female, what are the odds ? Don't see one for ages and then two come along at the same time...
In my defence, it seemed to be holding and defending territory and the colours were a bit washed out; still not that bright now but slowly improving, I suspect it might not be too well.

But then I'm thinking that the original Ram might not actually be a female, which would explain why the male I had to let go couldn't tolerate her/him...it. And as soon as I introduced the new Ram the original coloured up and started flaring trying to get its attention; no aggressive behaviour at all from either.

The dorsal and pectoral fin morphology of both seem to ID them as female, and both have red bellies. But the blue spangling in the humeral spot of the original Ram doesn't seem to be that pronounced. Both are a similar size. Must admit I'm a bit confused, any ideas?  

Orignal Ram



Tim Harrison, on Flickr

New Ram



Tim Harrison, on Flickr

Another of the original fish...



Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Pink belly=female


----------



## Tim Harrison

I guess I'm kind of lucky. I had a real problem finding a female in the first place, but then to buy one accidentally...
Do you reckon it's still a good idea to buy a male ? Could two females become a problem is one pairs up with a male ?


----------



## akwarium

The new one is a female, the original one might be a male. There is a red coloration on the belly but it's not the deeper pinkish blush you would expect.
The fish will know and tell you with their behavior. If their is courtship behavior it is most likely a pair.


----------



## Conort2

I would say they are both females. The pink belly and body shape gives it away.

Cheers

Conor


----------



## alto

There are many color lines in ram breeding, going back in time two dominant lines were “German blue” and “Holland red” - while the names indicated origins on the blood lines, they are now available through Asian or Czech or Florida etc breeding farms 

If those 2 rams pictured have (any) Holland red bloodline, that would account for the high degree of red color in the belly region - ie NOT definitive of female 

Recently I observed a “gold ram” group where almost all individuals had pretty pink belly regions, but only a couple I’d consider high probability female 

Best chance is watching the group in the shop tank and choosing the “most likely” male and the “most likely” female, then choose at least another “couple”, take them home and wait for pairing

Occasionally you’ll see “pairs” already formed in the shop tank - buy this “pair” plus at least one other likely female as 
M ramirezi tend to form temporary breeding pairs rather than strongly bonded brood pairs

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/mikrogeophagus-ramirezi/

It’s always worth looking at Seriously Fish Profiles - the photos in this one are excellent as they show how distorted many of the domestics forms are from the original wild fish


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, much appreciated 
And thanks @alto I had feeling there was perhaps more to this than meets the eye. I'll be watching to see how they get along.


----------



## alto

I don’t recall “Holland rams” being quite so red in former years, but recent batches from one supplier are very red bodied, at a first glance I thought a good percentage were females ... but changed my mind later to “another batch of mostly boys” 

An alternate supplier, sends much less red bellied “Holland rams” (I prefer these as I’m a blue ram fan) though they still display much stronger red hues through the body and fins 

Of course these fish are likely predominantly male from pH and temp effects
 (but also possibly some hormones)


----------



## Jayefc1

So they have electric blue rams in the pets at home near me are they GM rams or real ones


----------



## alto

I think by GM you mean Genetically Modified 

Electric blue, neon blue, neon green, platinum (with gold, blue or green head), gold etc are all (natural) color mutations of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi that have been line bred

Some are “healthier” than others but I believe this is more due to the particular breeder rather than the particular color mutation

Note (from Sf profile) wild rams are quite small dwarf cichlids 3.5 - 4.0 cm SL
In shops you will often see rams in the 5.0 - 6.0 cm range, that are also much heavier bodied - I suspect these are selectively outcrossed to larger “cousins” (hybrids), also selected for larger fish within a bloodline ... of course the fastest way to accomplish this is with growth hormones

Choose fish that appear bright and active, watch their respiration rate, look for overal healthy appearance, eg, no missing scales, no white edges/marks to fins (especially the pectoral fins), some splits are fine but should not be extensive (physical damage to fins without underlying disease, heals very rapidly)


Apologies Tim for going down this fish health diversion


----------



## Tim Harrison

alto said:


> Apologies Tim for going down this fish health diversion


I don't mind at all, this is all very interesting and I've learnt a thing or two...keep it coming alto 


alto said:


> Note (from Sf profile) wild rams are quite small dwarf cichlids 3.5 - 4.0 cm SL


I thought so. I had a wild pair way back in the day and they seemed tiny by comparison, especially the male.
The male I had to off load recently was very large by comparison. So not just rose tinted glasses of nostalgia then 


alto said:


> Electric blue, neon blue, neon green, platinum (with gold, blue or green head), gold etc are all (natural) color mutations of Mikrogeophagus ramirezi that have been line bred


So what actual variant is mine most likely to be do you think alto? I'm hesitant to call them German Blue Rams since there doesn't seem to be much that's blue about them even when they decide to sparkle.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thought I'd post an aquascaping photomontage from Instagram mostly of this scape but there's three of my last scape, Return of the Shallow, in there to...


----------



## Jayefc1

Ahh mate loved return of the shallow thing is the new scape is just as nice though and the pics are so clear


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Jay


----------



## Tim Harrison

Time for a bit of an update, and a few quick snaps. I've let the Rams go, I reckon they were as confused as I was as to their gender. One minute they were cleaning a rock and chasing all and sundry away, the next, one was aggressively bullying the other...

I've also started to find tiny snails in my tank, which for me is a major bummer, considering I go to huge lengths to exclude the slimy little bar stewards. The only thing I can think of is that they somehow piggybacked on an emersed crypt I introduced a few weeks back 

I've never been able to keep the CO2 stable in this tank for some reason. I've been trouble shooting my reg etc with the help of Karol from CO2 Art, but still haven't managed to get to the bottom of it 

Anyway, despite that the scape is finally at a point where it'll soon be ready for some final shots, which I hope will be good enough to enter in to a few competitions...maybe 



 Tim Harrison, on Flickr


Tim Harrison, on Flickr



Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Jayefc1

Still looks amazing even with any co2 issues your having the colours are popping really nice


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> I've let the Rams go, I reckon they were as confused as I was as to their gender. One minute they were cleaning a rock and chasing all and sundry away, the next, one was aggressively bullying the other.


This is pretty typical “pair” behaviour, given more colleagues they likely would’ve tried anew with different partners ... or perhaps just gadded about - kept in groups, they tend to display and politely spar, getting distracted by the next ram so it’s less common to see any determined bullying, and when you think they really should just swim to the far corners of the tank, they form this apparently happy shoal ... until something sets them off again 
There often seems to be one “bottom” fish but when I separate this fish to its own tank (lately I always seem to have electric blue or platinum color forms - chosen as they seem to come in with the most similar to wild type size and conformation), it pines away until I return it to the fold 
The “meanest” group of rams I kept was a stunning gold variant, deep orangy gold with brilliant blue markings - despite having a group of 8 in a 120cm x 45cm x 55cm tank there could be Only One 
and no way was I able to net any of them - unless I was willing to strip down the tank 
I didn’t keep rams for a long time after that, in retrospect perhaps I should’ve stripped down the tank to sort them but I had a group of altums and they would not have appreciated that effort

Depending how long you’ve had a ram in the tank, the snails may've been about for awhile, I’ve noticed this sudden tiny snail invasion several times when I’ve moved Rams or Choco’s out of a tank

And I’ve just seen those Blue Demons take down a shrimp   only to lose the main part of it to a Choco dive 
(S selatanensis)


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Jayefc1 and for the info @alto.


alto said:


> I didn’t keep rams for a long time after that


I know how you feel. I had a wild pair some time ago and they got on like a house on fire; never really left each others side. I'm guessing that captive bred rams have had more than a bit of natural behaviour bred out of them as a consequence of enhancing colouration. Either way, I don't think I'll be shopping for rams any time soon, and if I ever do again I'll be seeking out a pair from a reputable breeder.


alto said:


> I’ve noticed this sudden tiny snail invasion several times when I’ve moved Rams


Now you mention it that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## CooKieS

Same conclusion about rams for me, I'll try them again only from a reputable breeder.

Tank looks very good.


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

I've heard Bolivian rams are much better in this regard, they also colour up nicely when they get older than most are in the shops... German rams are indeed tricky though, weirdly some of the cheapest specimens have done the best for me in the past...


----------



## alto

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Bolivian rams are much better in this regard


Yes and no
They can be absolute bullies as well
Again recommendation is to keep a group 


> This species should be maintained in a group therefore an aquarium with a base measuring at least 90 ∗ 45 cm or equivalent is recommended.


I’d suggest 7 rather than a mere 5 

Several shipments have come in with some sort of internal issue, they look a bit thin but rather than responding to increased feeding, they continue to slowly lose weight until quite emaciated, then death
Whatever this is doesn’t seem particularly contagious and some within the group seem to recover (especially if isolated from the group)
Initially I assumed internal parasites (they display typical symptom of rushing to food, then tasting/spitting, and eventually minimal food response), but levamisole~food had no effect (at least not when used as directed)

If shopping for Bolivian Rams look for plump, active fish with some color flashes 

Once again, apologies to Tim for this extended Fish Commentary


----------



## alto

Thanks Tim, I feel guilty every time I wander down one of those Fish _snakehands_ 
(but obviously can’t resist )


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha, not at all, thanks for sharing your fish knowledge. My journal is all the better for it


----------



## Tim Harrison

My sanctuary away from the madness...





by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Jayefc1

Wow that light looks bright


----------



## Edvet

Lovely!
More room for plants on the windowsill though


----------



## Ed Wiser

You cleaned up well. Wish my office space was as clean.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Jayefc1 said:


> Wow that light looks bright


It's on 100% for the shot. It was on 100% throughout the photoperiod but I dialled it down to 80%.


Edvet said:


> Lovely!
> More room for plants on the windowsill though


Thanks Ed, there were a couple of orchids on the windowsill but SWMBO (the boss... Head Honcho. El Numero Uno. Mrs Big. The Godmother. Lady of the Rings. The Bourne... Identity. Er... Taxi Driver. Jaws...} nicked them for her new IKEA plant stand so they now live in the kitchen. Maybe I'll buy some more.



Ed Wiser said:


> You cleaned up well. Wish my office space was as clean.


Thanks Ed, you should see the other side of the room out of shot...


----------



## Ed Wiser

Not fair giving use a selective shot.  Just to make us think you are perfect.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yet another stem trim, the plants are growing like crazy, pretty much zero algae...








by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Unbelievably healthy, and a great problem to have


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Really nice.. Maybe just take some moss off the branch in the front side so you still can see its wood..


----------



## CooKieS

Nice example of an great nature aquarium style, should look very cool once the rotala full grown in.

Did you submit it to
Iaplc finally?
Cheers


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ady34 said:


> Unbelievably healthy, and a great problem to have


Thanks Ady, just can't get those damn stems to grow the way I want them to 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Really nice.. Maybe just take some moss off the branch in the front side so you still can see its wood..


Thanks DM, I think you may have a point, it perhaps seems a bit unbalanced given that the rest of the wood isn't so overwhelmingly covered in moss, but I kind of like it atm 


CooKieS said:


> Nice example of an great nature aquarium style, should look very cool once the rotala full grown in.
> 
> Did you submit it to
> Iaplc finally?
> Cheers


Thanks CooKieS, that's nice of you. I haven't this time around, like I mentioned in response to Ady I can't seem to get the Rotala to grow the way I want it to. A large part of the reason I designed this scape was to enable me to mess around with Rotala to see what I could do with it. I'll get there eventually and when I do I might enter it, that is if I don't get bored first


----------



## CooKieS

I'm now trying, with success, an good method for stems;

When trimming, just replant some of the tops (not necessary to plant them in soil, just get them stucked in the existing bush), this will make your stems looks nicer (even after trimming), more red and more compact.

After an few weeks you should see an difference and this will allow you to just trim the tops in the shape you want for final pic, let it grow All together (whithout replanting tops to avoid high level differences) and shoot.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks, good advice, and it's pretty much what I normally do. I thought I'd give Dennis Wong's method a go...


----------



## DutchMuch

Tim Harrison said:


> My sanctuary away from the madness...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


Wow.

so how much $ to do this to my room for me?
haha ill pay for the flight to LOL

Kiding of course, looks absolutely stunning, as usual with your work. Good job


----------



## Tim Harrison

Trimmed MC carpet ...










And bugger, who says lightening doesn't strike twice


----------



## Jayefc1

Ouch nothing a lil super glue wont fix though mate and I bet you have spares


----------



## Tim Harrison

I have a couple of spare drop checkers but no spare reactors, so the old one is just hanging there


----------



## Siege

Hi Tim.

For the reactor head is it just the arm thing you need that slots in and then slots into the sticky thing?

If so I think I may have one somewhere............


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi Steve, many thanks for the offer. I'm using a Chihiros reactor, so it plugs straight into the suction cup, no arm needed. I have a couple of new reactors on order so should be good to go soon


----------



## Tim Harrison

View from above...


----------



## CooKieS

Very clean! 

Are you using the twinstar sa on full
Power?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks, no, just normal power. TBH the reactor has been on its last legs for some time and therefore not really producing much in the way of a mist, so I'm not sure it's actually doing much.
But I often find that once my scapes become biologically mature they gain a massive amount of stability; high plant biomass is key.
Just to emphasise the point, I've been pretty lazy with maintenance...it's only had two water changes in the last month.
Also most of the growth has been achieved with relatively moderate lighting...Twinstar S series on 60% for several months after start up for 6hr photoperiod. It's on 80% now and I've just started to ramp things up to see what I can get away with


----------



## CooKieS

Sorry I was talking about the led not the sterilizer, but good to know.

My chihiros doctor is always on, I find it great at night to give o2 to my fishes.

60% power only on the twinstar, that might explain that your rotala aren't red yet. But well, less light less problem, mine is an 600E series, less power, less reds but tank is so easier


----------



## Tim Harrison

CooKieS said:


> Sorry I was talking about the led not the sterilizer, but good to know.


Haha, of course, you did say SA...


CooKieS said:


> My chihiros doctor is always on, I find it great at night to give o2 to my fishes.


Me too...not sure about its algae busting capability...my rocks are spotless though.


CooKieS said:


> 60% power only on the twinstar, that might explain that your rotala aren't red yet. But well, less light less problem, mine is an 600E series, less power, less reds but tank is so easier


Yes, it's undoubtedly why my Rotala isn't red. That and over fertilising. It grows too quick to build up red pigment. So as well as increasing the intensity and photoperiod, I'm dosing less, and letting the AS do some of the work.


----------



## Siege

Up the intensity and drop the height. 

Go on be. A devil......!


----------



## Jayefc1

That extra 20% is probably all you need to bring out the colour I agree with siege 
Go on be a devil

Cheers 
Jay


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...I'm working on it


----------



## alto

It’s summer and tank will likely run warmer and you’re going off on holidays ... I’d be conservative in my pursuit of the _Reds_ 

I’m betting none of those daredevils are offering to come house sit and sort out the algae’s whilst you’re off Walking 

PS did you check out Filipe Oliveira’s FB page - he’s showing the 1month growth on the 2 rescapes ... check out those _Colours_ 
(and ask about lighting & fertilizers )


----------



## Tim Harrison

@alto, those are some pretty amazing scapes and colours. Filipe is by far my most favourite scaper, and easily one of the most talented, and he can grow the whatsit out of stems. I've watched his kitchen aquarium vlog on his fertz regime, not familiar with his lighting tho'. I'm guessing it's fairly intense...


----------



## zozo

Your modesty becomes you... You always manage to create such very picturesque scapes. It has a very relaxing and wel arranged color pallete..


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> @altoFilipe is by far my most favourite scaper, and easily one of the most talented, and he can grow the whatsit out of stems. I've watched his kitchen aquarium vlog on his fertz regime, not familiar with his lighting tho'. I'm guessing it's fairly intense...


Yes 

His 60L home tank is Twinstar SP (though I believe it was a more local brand in previous scapes)
The 60L Aquaflora is Twinstar EA

I appreciate how he always tries to include aquarium details on the video
(and answers again in comments even when the info in already listed in the “drop down”  )


----------



## CooKieS

alto said:


> Yes
> 
> His 60L home tank is Twinstar SP (though I believe it was a more local brand in previous scapes)
> The 60L Aquaflora is Twinstar EA
> 
> I appreciate how he always tries to include aquarium details on the video
> (and answers again in comments even when the info in already listed in the “drop down”  )



I like Oliveiras style and attitude since I began Aquascaping, his 'bonsaï' scape inspired me at that time.

I have to say that his maintenance and ferts video was very hard to understand, I found his routine very messy and random (one Week npk, one Week iron micro?).

What I've learn is that main thing is good soil with use of nutrition caps, this gives the best results and allows you to dose very lean ferts in the water.


----------



## Zeus.

CooKieS said:


> What I've learn is that main thing is good soil with use of nutrition caps, this gives the best results and allows you to dose very lean ferts in the water.



Think as long as nutrition is there for the plants in the water column or soil it doesn't matter the plants dont care where the nutrients come from or what brand you use. I was chatting with Clive about nutrition in my 500l and he summed it up quite well IMO



ceg4048 said:


> Mate, whenever someone shows me a spreadsheet or some on-line calculator I always feel a wave of nausea. I mean, really, why all the calculations? For your size tank why not just dump 2 teaspoons KNO3, 1 teaspoon of KH2PO4 3X per week and 1 teaspoon trace 2X per week. End of story. If you think you need Mg then just toss a couple teaspoons of the Epsom Salt in at water change. This is science, but it doesn't have to be Rocket Science. I just use the 2:1:1 rule and call it good. i don't even look at those stupid spreadsheets. It's just so energy sapping.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Zeus. said:


> Think as long as nutrition is there for the plants in the water column or soil it doesn't matter the plants dont care where the nutrients come from or what brand you use. I was chatting with Clive about nutrition in my 500l and he summed it up quite well IMO


Haha...that's Clive all right, dispensing common sense wisdom 


CooKieS said:


> I have to say that his maintenance and ferts video was very hard to understand


It does appear to be quite complicated, but he's written it out in the comments below so it's a little easier to follow.
But it did make me smile a bit when he said he gives his wife the all in one fertz to dose when he's away...


----------



## alto

I didn’t think it complicated ... it’s that _laissez faire_ approach complicated somewhat by Filipe trying to provide a schedule in response to queries 

I think 
(maybe I need to watch again )


----------



## Tim Harrison




----------



## Tim Harrison

Stems are growing well...


----------



## GHNelson

They are indeed...
Rotala mexicana "Goias"....any updates!


----------



## Steve Buce

Tanks looking good as always


----------



## Tim Harrison

hogan53 said:


> They are indeed...
> Rotala mexicana "Goias"....any updates!


I reckon you're right about that. I planted so many different Rotalas that I don't know for sure what's left, but that makes perfect sense. Thanks Hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison

I've also started to resume the original dosing regime again, I'm noticing what I think is a K deficiency in the leaves; some are developing pin holes.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Warts an' all photo of the tank as it is now...I've been away and not had chance to look after it as I would have liked. I think I may need to do some serious maintenance...


----------



## Zeus.

Nice plant Biomass there Tim


----------



## Tim Harrison

Zeus. said:


> Nice plant Biomass there Tim


Thanks. Everything has gone banonkers especially the Rotala. It's now growing out of the top of the tank in its emersed form. Not sure how easy it'll be to bring it back to the way it was in post 482 above


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> the Rotala. It's now growing out of the top of the tank in its emersed form. Not sure how easy it'll be to bring it back to the way it was in post 482 above



Think thats going to be a two stage recovery.

1. cut back hard or lift it all out, replant the best top stems then wait for it to grow back nice in the top stems.
2. rinse repeat the first step, cutting out all the emersed form

Rotala does grow fast so should be too painful.

Could of been worse, could have reduced the flow and a tank full of 'staghorn'


----------



## alto

Just cut the stem plants at the base or slightly below substrate if you can get access - I like to remove them completely (as much as possible, depending on root system) with syphon running at hand (filter on or off depending) 
BUT add 5-10X Prime dose first (insurance) - and this takes a lot longer and bigger water changes so depending on livestock may not be best method 

Jurijs and Green Aqua leave the old stem bits and roots in place 

Replant nicest stem tops and it will immediately look so much better


----------



## CooKieS

Mine looks the same at the moment, rotala are invasive!

It was fun to use them but I won!'t use them on my next scape, too lazy to trim it every 10 days


----------



## Tim Harrison

Several hours, a bucket three-quarters full of cuttings, one heck of a mess and phase one over... Carpet trimmed to reveal yellow spots where the MC has been shaded out. The Rotala and Ludwigia cut back to near substrate level and the tops replanted. The mass of _H. verticillata_ and _R. __inundatus _has been thinned out, along with the _Bolbitis heudelotii_. 

I've also cut nearly all the moss off the manzi at the front of the tank; it had grown massively thick and was creating too much shade and becoming too much of a distraction to my viewing pleasure. Just have to tidy the rest of the plants up and clean the filter, pipes and lilies etc. and then nurse it back to health. The fish are happy to have some swimming space back...










by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## zozo




----------



## GHNelson

That was a major trim Tim!
Looks good........


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


>


Haha...I know, right! It's pretty severe and decimated compared to what it looked like just 4 short weeks ago. The challenge will be to see if I can get restore it to its former glory 


hogan53 said:


> That was a major trim Tim!
> Looks good........


Thanks hoggie, I guess it could have been worse


----------



## Zeus.

Looks like you got that MC carpet just in time few weeks and it might of started too lift 

Great Trim Tim , I'm sure it will look even better in a few weeks


----------



## CooKieS

Nice trimming! Do you have any shrimps in there Tim?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi @CooKieS yes I've Amanos and a myriad of cherrys.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Back from my hols and in my absence the scape seems to be growing again quite well. It's still a little scruffy looking but I'll do some more trimming and maintenance over the next few days.




Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Zeus.

Tim Harrison said:


> little scruffy looking



 ,suppose its not up to your usual 'HIGH' standard Tim,  but recovering nicely


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nearly there with the scape again. The stems have been trimmed twice and need to grow in again and then another trim and all should be back as before if not better.
I've also added another Buce and Anubius Bonsai, which has filled out the gaps, thanks to @Siege and @Geoffrey Rea at @Aquarium Gardens for picking me out a couple of stunning plants.




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## JonRivers

Fantastic tank, keep up the good work!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Since my last post, I've upped the intensity of the TwinStar S Series to 100% and lowered the light a couple of inches. The photoperiod is 8 hrs including a half hour ramp up and down. The carpet of MC has all but recovered, and the stems seem to be responding well and have changed growth habit a bit, tending toward bending away from the light.

And I bought more fish, perhaps too many. More cardinals, lemon tetra, supposedly rosey tetra, but more probably _Hyphessobrycon bentosi. _And for me the find of the century a tiny male Scarlet Badis and two females...




Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Jayefc1

Looks great mate how long has the light been on 100% now?


----------



## Kalum

Looks great and has recovered well in the past few weeks, interesting that the stems are reacting like that, more than enough light available now that they dlnt need to reach up and start creeping instead you think?

What's your stocking list looking like now with the new additions?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks great mate how long has the light been on 100% now?


Thanks Jay. About a couple of weeks or so, I think.


Kalum said:


> interesting that the stems are reacting like that


Thanks Kalum, Yes the light intensity is at a level where they are bending away from it, hopefully they'll get a little more colour as a result too.


Kalum said:


> What's your stocking list looking like now with the new additions?


A quick video of the new fish not long after they were introduced...


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Looks great Tim.
Now watch the Badis eliminate those pesky cherries...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Iain. The male hunting for prey in amongst the MC...





Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

I've heard they are very hard to feed and slow eaters? 

Beware, dominated males Can look like females too


----------



## tam

Hmmm, I wouldn't be too sure they won't colour up into males - they are sneaky!


----------



## Zeus.

Iain Sutherland said:


> Looks great Tim.
> Now watch the Badis eliminate those pesky cherries...



My Badis didnt last long but know I have lots of RCS, will see how Tims Badis goes on


----------



## Tim Harrison

Sexing was the problem I had with my Rams as well, so nothing would surprise me 
And they are so small it's hard to imagine them tucking in to my cherries, especially the adults.
Either way, since I got rid of the Rams the cherry popn. has exploded, not sure if the Badis will be able to make much of a dent in it anyway.


----------



## zozo

Zeus. said:


> My Badis didnt last long but know I have lots of RCS, will see how Tims Badis goes on



I have loads of Cherries and the same experience with Badis, Cherries are still there the Badis din't last long. They perished rather soon after my home Daphnia supply busted and the LFS had non in the same periode to reseed and feed. Looking up the wholesaler that provides my region with Badis spp. it always are wild specimen if available and noticed they don't accept froozen foods.

I've been trying to keep Daphnia population from not busting. The best results after the lost badis unfortunately, is using larger volumes outdoor. Past 2 years i have a 90 litre cement tub in the garden. Just water and leaf litter what falls in from surrounding shrubs and trees. Leave the muck collecting at the bottom in it, that seems to be the major food supply.



And now i seem to have a rather steady supply that doesn't bust completely. Only when it gets realy warm in the summer the poppulation declines drasticaly but recoveres within a week when temps drops back again. The rest of the time i have always Daphnia available at least every other day a portion during the bust cycles. At cooler periodes every day several portions if i like. I guess also the LFS profesional Daphnia supplier suffer booms and Busts, because the Daphnia availability in the LFS is simmularly erratic. I never know when they have or not.



Daphnia keeping and boom and bust likely is inevitable, but it's the volumes stability and the numbers left after the bust for a decent and swift recovery. I guess if i would dig the tub in for more temp stability would even be beter. But for now i have non to complain.. Only should have thought of this experiment before wasting any Badis.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

If you fill half the tub with barley straw this will help no end maintain a daphnia population.  Adding some emergent wood  will also help insure a good supply of blood worm and mosquito larvae 

I think the problem isn't the mature adult shrimp as they are generally too large, more that the badis will stop any babies from reaching that stage meaning a steady decline in numbers.  I remember watching a video a while back where 1 pair of badis cleared out a tank with over 1000 shrimp in under 18 months. 

They are stunning fish though so dont blame you for giving them a go Tim.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel and Iain for the heads and the tips on culturing live food. Either way, they are stunning and fascinating little critters and hopefully I can get them to survive, if not thrive.


----------



## Edvet

Maybe try some grindal or enchytraea,


----------



## CooKieS

Main difficulty will be to feed them with all that lightning fast tetras around, maybe with a syringe ?


----------



## tam

They are pretty bold at meal times, but follow the food as it moves and then pounce. Mine turn up even if it's just to look disappointed there is no live food involved. They ignore microworms - too small to trigger the hunting instinct I think. It's the movement that attracts them - Daphnia, cyclops and brineshrimp are pounced on (baby cherry shrimp too). Where as most fish will suck in anything floating buy to see if it's food, they'll only do it if it moves like it's alive and they'll watch it to see if it's twitching. If you mix live and frozen brine they'll sometimes accidentally confuse the two - and a bit of a current to make it swirl helps - I think if I did it often enough they might learn to take frozen I just rarely feed it.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Marcel and Iain for the heads and the tips on culturing live food. Either way, they are stunning and fascinating little critters and hopefully I can get them to survive, if not thrive.



They are indeed fascinating lovely and tad difficult little fish with a strict user manual.  

Other point of caution regarding feeding.


> Badids tend to develop issues with obesity and become more susceptible to disease when fed chironomid larvae (bloodworm) or _Tubifex_ so these should be omitted from the diet.


https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/dario-dario/

Should be omitted seems a bit over concerned action. I guess in nature they also will not discriminate a worm by its color and occasionaly eat one. A variety of diet should be best, going to McDonalds now and then shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @tam, good to know. And thanks again Marcel, I read that too and thought the same as you.


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks @tam, good to know. And thanks again Marcel, I read that too and thought the same as you.



I know you think likewise and highly like me about it, it truly is a Seriously Fish data base, so i reckoned you did read that. 

But you do have a nice planted garden if i remember correctly. Why not simply put a number of buckets with water all over the place hidden behind some bushes. Than you already have quite a lot of free food in no time. Mainly mosquite larvae and they come realy fast.

Lately i forgot and left an empty bucket in the garden left it for a week or so and after a rainy night it was 1/4 filled with water. When i noticed and looked in it, it was littered with black mosquito larvae ready to scoop out. Nice accidental upportunety, it took me 3 days feeding the fish to get them all out.  First time i noticed how fast they actualy come, 10 days maybe.

Than 10 buckets going around in circles i guess its a never ending supply all summer long. Even in mild winters it keeps going on.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Pearling...








Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## akwarium

lovely as always,

sexing immature Dario is a pain, I would not be surprised if all three are males. Which is probably fine, mine ( a different species but still) don't need that much personal space and are sharing a smaller tank without harming each other.  One female might be a bigger issue, with two males she will be harassed all the time.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





akwarium said:


> sexing immature Dario is a pain, I would not be surprised if all three are males.


That would be my guess as well.

I was told that the females may have faint stripes, but they won't show any red.

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

I realy wonder how that all works, male and female.. Since they are not captive bred.. And i don't see scuba divers sellecting the catch.  Mysterious!.. Isn't it? Transgender on demand?


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> I realy wonder how that all works, male and female.. Since they are not captive bred.. And i don't see scuba divers sellecting the catch.  Mysterious!.. Isn't it? Transgender on demand?


There was a discussion on the "Fish Hut" facebook group, Colin Dunlop is the owner and a well known fish breeder etc. 

The general view was that it must reflect the situation in nature, but no-one had an explanation for why.

cheers Darrel


----------



## CooKieS

As Always, thanks for the interesting read guys! Fascinating nature...


----------



## zozo

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, There was a discussion on the "Fish Hut" facebook group, Colin Dunlop is the owner and a well known fish breeder etc.
> 
> The general view was that it must reflect the situation in nature, but no-one had an explanation for why.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I once heard or red a story don't remeber which it was, could be in the lfs..
The culling process after the catch was to blame. Only the most colorfull are in demand and end up from net to bucket and the dull ones are thrown out/back again. In a way i can't imagine this beeing the reason, the demand on females isn't that low. And it would be a hell of a job with such a tiny fish sp.


----------



## Tim Harrison

That wouldn't surprise me, labour is still very cheap on the India subcontinent. 
And yes it appears I have probably been given 3 males


----------



## zozo

I once bought 5 of them and specialy sellected 2 bright red and 3 dull grey Badis.. Didn't take long, about a week for 2 grey ones becomme firy red. One never colored it had a greyish purple tone with faint vertical lateral bands, it also behaved differntly, more solo. While the red ones always were pairing up. Not realy showing typical territorial behaivor. But hence what do we know about fish communication?. So i can't say it didn't add up to the common sex description. They were always peacefully sharing the same space in pairs and foraging around not putting attention to the dull colored one and visa versa.


----------



## akwarium

zozo said:


> I once heard or red a story don't remeber which it was, could be in the lfs..
> The culling process after the catch was to blame. Only the most colorfull are in demand and end up from net to bucket and the dull ones are thrown out/back again. In a way i can't imagine this beeing the reason, the demand on females isn't that low. And it would be a hell of a job with such a tiny fish sp.



I think there could much truth in that. Most fish caught in Asia end up on the Asian market, the demand there is mostly for colorful fish, male-female ratio usually is not much of an issue. And wen trading your catch on the local marketplace it might very well be an advantage to have the most brightly colored fish. 

a second argument is that it is quite common to only or mostly remove male specimens from nature. Removing females will have a much bigger effect on the health of a population then removing mostly males. If your livelihood depends on catching fish you don't want to wipe out the population. So if putting the females back helps to ensure a good catch next season, you might be willing to put some effort in to that.


----------



## buttons

Stunning scape Tim. Would wood have you used on your scape please? Also I’m thinking about getting one of the dimmer controllers, are they easy to program?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks...Yes I used manzi. And yes the controllers are easy to programme, check this thread out https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/twinstar-controller.56769/ 

Part 1, hardscape


Part 2, planting


----------



## buttons

Great videos. Is it the gnarled manz Wood the aquarium gardens sell or a different type? If exactly the type a shape wood I’ve been looking for. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

It's usually all from the same source, Tom Barr who collects it from the Californian chaparral. However, he only sells wholesale to shops now. So your best bet is AG.


----------



## Tim Harrison

It's still going...
I haven't been able to spend anywhere near as much time on it as I would have liked so it's gone over a bit. No large water changes in months, sporadic fertz and maintenance.
But I've reduced the light intensity to 80% and that seems to be a good trade off; well the GDA on the glass doesn't seem to be so prevalent 




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Deano3

Tim Harrison said:


> It's still going...
> I haven't been able to spend anywhere near as much time on it as I would have liked so it's gone over a bit. No large water changes in months, sporadic fertz and maintenance.
> But I've reduced the light intensity to 80% and that seems to be a good trade off; well the GDA on the glass doesn't seem to be so prevalent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


That just looks so lush and green, stunning


Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Dean 
Couple more quick snaps...







Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## Deano3

Can i ask Tim how you inject co2 is it inline diffuser ? Whats dosing regime?

Thanks dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## CooKieS

Nice Tim, how are the Badis?


----------



## PARAGUAY

Loving the moss Tim


----------



## Tim Harrison

Deano3 said:


> Can i ask Tim how you inject co2 is it inline diffuser ? Whats dosing regime?
> 
> Thanks dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


I use an original Up inline atomiser. Fertz, around 4-8 mls of TNC Complete per day.



CooKieS said:


> Nice Tim, how are the Badis?


Thanks. I last saw them a couple of days ago hunting amongst the moss, they seemed to be doing okay.



PARAGUAY said:


> Loving the moss Tim


Thanks @PARAGUAY  It's a combination of mini Christmas moss and Fissidens.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The mini Christmas moss is doing a bit too well. I think it's time for a rescape,
but it seems a bit pointless at the moment; we're relocating to Yorkshire.




by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## CooKieS

Lovely shot and growth Tim, 

Those Rosy tetra are one of my fav...cheers


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Lovely part of the world, whereabouts?


----------



## cbaum86

Great photo - everything looks so clean.
Oh and welcome to Yorkshire in advance.


----------



## Tim Harrison

CooKieS said:


> Lovely shot and growth Tim, Those Rosy tetra are one of my fav...cheers


Thanks CooKies, they're a favourite of mine too, I think they might be the closely related bentosi tetra. I find the whole Hyphessobrycon genus fascinating 



Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Lovely part of the world, whereabouts?


Near Leeds 



cbaum86 said:


> Great photo - everything looks so clean.
> Oh and welcome to Yorkshire in advance.


Thanks, got to sell my house first, but looking forward to moving to Gods Own County


----------



## Wookii

Fantastic looking tank Tim.

how many fish and shrimp do you have in there - looks like quite a few from your Flickr pictures?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks. Not that many really, atm 16 small tetras, a couple of Scarlet Badis and countless cherrys.


----------



## Tim Harrison

The scape is becoming increasingly overgrown, and my urge to rescape is becoming increasingly hard to resist, despite the future relocation...


----------



## KeeperOfASilentWorld

Looks absolutely amazing!  If you don't mind sharing; Which source did you get the Mini Christmas Moss from?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks, I got it from a friend. I think Aquarium Gardens sell it.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Some reflections on NatureScape...









 
Tim Harrison


----------



## Jayefc1

It's still a beautiful scape though Tim


----------



## Janci

Beautiful Tim
What is the recipe for such a moss growth? Mine seems not to take off that fast and colours are less green.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Janci, I'm not sure, most mosses seem to do really well in my local tap water, which has been anything from very to moderately hard.
I guess good lighting, balanced with good stable CO2 flow and distribution and fertz. Also, shrimp to keep it clean and algae free. And regular maintenance of course especially early on. 
For more even growth I also chop it up in to tiny pieces around 5-10mm and bind it on very tightly with nylon thread or super glue.


----------



## Wookii

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks @Janci, I'm not sure, most mosses seem to do really well in my local tap water, which has been anything from very to moderately hard.
> I guess good lighting, balanced with good stable CO2 flow and distribution and fertz. Also, shrimp to keep it clean and algae free. And regular maintenance of course especially early on.
> For more even growth I also chop it up in to tiny pieces around 5-10mm and bind it on very tightly with nylon thread or super glue.



Tim, when you say maintenance early on with the moss, what specifically are you referring to? My moss in my new tank is really starting to grow well, but I’m wondering if I should trim it back really close to stimulate more and thicker growth?

Also, fantastic images as always Tim. Am I correct in thinking they’re all with an iPhone? I’m starting to get used to taking some close up images with mine, and have invested in one of those clip on macro lenses (but one that can be 70mm away from the object, which seems to work well also. Any tips for getting good images? Do you use a tripod of any kind?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Wookii said:


> Tim, when you say maintenance early on with the moss, what specifically are you referring to?


I just mean keeping on top of water changes, for me 100% a day at start up for a week, and then every other day week 2, and every third day for week 3, and then 50% once a week thereafter. Also, keeping the filter clean etc.


Wookii said:


> My moss in my new tank is really starting to grow well, but I’m wondering if I should trim it back really close to stimulate more and thicker growth?


I tend to tie mine to wood really tightly, or chop it up if I'm gluing it to hardscape. I also place it quite densely giving 100% coverage where I'd like it to grow. Sometimes it will spread, but often it just stays were it is. I tend to trim quite harshly at times, but it depends on the look I'm aiming for. Either way, it usually grows back dense and even, but mainly because of the way I attach it in the first place.


Wookii said:


> Also, fantastic images as always Tim. Am I correct in thinking they’re all with an iPhone? I’m starting to get used to taking some close up images with mine, and have invested in one of those clip on macro lenses (but one that can be 70mm away from the object, which seems to work well also. Any tips for getting good images? Do you use a tripod of any kind?


Thanks. It's all a bit hit and miss really. Most times it's just off the cuff when I see something I think is worth photographing, but I also use a tripod at times. Another trick is to place the camera on the glass and take images that way, no glare, reflections, or shadows, and perhaps most importantly the camera is stable, which gives sharper images.

But I also take loads of images of the same subject from the same and different angles and then choose the best. I also usually run them through a basic photo editor just to adjust colour, and light etc to what I actually see, and sometimes to crop the image to place greater emphasis on the subject I'm trying to capture or to create a bit of tension and a more interesting photo.


----------



## Wookii

Thanks Tim - do you use the default Apple camera app, or a different app?


----------



## Tim Harrison

I usually just use the camera as is. Apple software does a fantastic job of processing the data by itself.
However, if I'm shooting something that needs to be of publishable quality I use Halide which you can download from the app store.


----------



## Wookii

Tim Harrison said:


> I usually just use the camera as is. Apple software does a fantastic job of processing the data by itself.
> However, if I'm shooting something that needs to be of publishable quality I use Halide which you can download from the app store.



Thanks - I’m struggling to get good subject focus on the native app, the camera always seem to focus on an adjacent leaf or similar - it may be down to technique more than the camera though.

Thanks for the suggestion of Halide, I’ll give that a whirl.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Know what you mean... I just try to use it for what it's good at and don't really expect it to perform otherwise. Maybe a DSLR would serve you better, I know I could use one occasionally


----------



## Wookii

Tim Harrison said:


> Know what you mean... I just try to use it for what it's good at and don't really expect it to perform otherwise. Maybe a DSLR would serve you better, I know I could use one occasionally



I actually have a DLSR, an old(er) Canon 450D, but believe it or not, I can't get nearly as good images with it as I can with the phone for the close ups. Probably because I'm lacking a decent telephoto lens. There is also the whole convenience factor!


----------



## DeepMetropolis

Thanks for the tip Halide is now limited free in Google play store.. Was searching for an app that had timestamp button for fast switching..


----------



## Matt @ ScapeEasy

You can touch the screen where you want the camera to focus before taking the photo


----------



## Tim Harrison

I think perhaps it's time for a rescape...Nothing too adventurous, I plan on using the same plants  for a bigger project after I've relocated. I'll probably make a start tomorrow. Looking forward to pulling the Buce out just to seeing how big it's grown, it's hard to tell atm in amongst the tangled mess.


----------



## Jayefc1

Will be sad to see this go it's been a great journal thanks for the great read and journey of the tank Tim 

J


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Jay, I've enjoyed writing it and reading other members contributions. I'm not sure it'll be over just yet, I'll have to see how the rescpe works out. I intend to reuse most of the plants, I need them for a bigger project I'm planning once we've finally managed to relocate. If it turns out completely different I'll probably start a new journal


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finally got around to breaking this scape down yesterday. Still got a lot to do but here are some shots of the some of the plants I pulled out from the tangled mess, they've all been growing in either partial or complete shade for at least the last month or so...














My little helper


----------



## Harry H

Hi Tim,

Plants are looking healthy, if you end up with some anubias and buces that you think you dont need anymore, please let me know, I would use them in my upcoming low tech Discus tank.

Thank you.


----------



## Jayefc1

They are handsome plants mate


----------



## Wookii

Tim Harrison said:


> Finally got around to breaking this scape down yesterday. Still got a lot to do but here are some shots of the some of the plants I pulled out from the tangled mess, they've all been growing in either partial or complete shade for at least the last month or so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My little helper




Nice! Thats a good looking Buce there - and probably about £50 worth to buy new!

It'll be interesting to see haw many shrimp you have hiding in there!


----------



## Ady34

Looked a bit full that tank Tim 
Sounds intriguing the next chapter, look forward to the next instalment.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Harry H I think I'm going to need them all though 
Cheers @Jayefc1 and @Wookii. there was the usual myriad of shrimp, but they were all quite large, I guess the Scarlet Badis did for most of the smaller ones.


Ady34 said:


> Looked a bit full that tank Tim
> Sounds intriguing the next chapter, look forward to the next instalment.


It was a bit full, the fish were almost pressed up against the glass


----------



## Ryan Thang To

Oh wow. That a lot of plants. Super healthy. Love the buces

Cheers
Ryan


----------



## Tim Harrison

Ryan Thang To said:


> Oh wow. That a lot of plants. Super healthy. Love the buces
> 
> Cheers
> Ryan


Thanks Ryan, that buce has grown in to a bit of a monster.

When it was first planted...




Near the end...


----------



## mort

I got some of the same buce from p@h at the time you mentioned you bought yours. Mine has been in a very low tech under constant shade and still grown over half the size yours has in much better conditions. I'm impressed with how undemanding a plant it actually is as I have some thriving in areas so dark even anubias isn't impressed.

Very much looking forward to your next scape.


----------



## Deano3

That bucephalandra that looks very healthy,  really looking forward to what comes next.

Thanks for sharing 
Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


----------



## Onoma1

Wow...the Buce a testament to your skills...!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @mort, @Deano3, and @Onoma1 Not sure how the next scape will turn out. It's more about just keeping the plants alive until I move. I'm hoping I'll have the space for a bigger tank at last


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## Tim Harrison

Thought I'd spend the afternoon doing a spot of baking while the wife is out...
It's worked out quite well, I'm pleased with the results and the place doesn't smell that bad either, although I might have gone nose blind in the process 





Ready for the new scape


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## Kezzab

Been there done that. Keep finding aquasoil bits in the oven...


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## Tankless

Tim Harrison said:


> Thought I'd spend the afternoon doing a spot of baking while the wife is out...
> It's worked out quite well, I'm pleased with the results and the place doesn't smell that bad either, although I might have gone nose blind in the process
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ready for the new scape



Was that the soil that was baked?


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## Tim Harrison

Yes it's AS half baked...which is what my wife will think I am if she finds out


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## akwarium

why did you bake it?


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## Siege

Can I have my moss back?! 

Only joking, how bad did the soil smell?


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## Tim Harrison

akwarium said:


> why did you bake it?


Just to dry it to make it easier to reused. During summer I usually let the sun do the work ...









Siege said:


> Can I have my moss back?!
> 
> Only joking, how bad did the soil smell?


I've got plenty if you need some, I can always drop some off at AG 
Not that bad. Put it this way my wife didn't notice when she came home


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## CooKieS

Hahaha that is awesome, thanks for the tip.


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## Tim Harrison

For my next scape I thought about doing something with azalea root. I've never scaped with it before, so should be interesting


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## Gill

Love it, Azaelea is a nice dense wood. Does get a major fungal stage, which shrimp gorge on.


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## cosmin_ruz

Good luck with the new scape!!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Gill and thanks also @cosmin_ruz really not sure how this one will work out. The scape bug bites again...
I'm thinking of heading over to AG in a bit to see what hardscape they have. Back before the rugby tho'


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## Deano3

Yeah best of luck let us know what u end up with 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks @Deano3, I came back from AG with this lovely azalea root and a packet of branches for detailing. I've had to take a couple of branches off the root so it'll fit the 60-P; why does it always look smaller in the shop


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## Deano3

I like that very nice and interesting, your so lucky to he close to AG  lookingforward to this  u doing it this week mate ?

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Deano3 said:


> I like that very nice and interesting, your so lucky to he close to AG  lookingforward to this  u doing it this week mate ?
> 
> Dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


I thought so, thanks. If I can make it fit I'll use it for sure. Hopefully, I'll have the hardscape done by the end of this week either way. It's about an hour fifteen to AG from where I live but well worth the drive. I got talking to a guy who'd travelled all the way up from Kent. AG's reputation definitely proceeds it and with very good reason


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## Deano3

I buy pretty much everything from there but live near newcastle so have to order online great customer service and helpful staff.

Keep the updates coming tim 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## PARAGUAY

Looking forward to this Tim. Your oven bake reminds me of the time when my wife and daughter were going out for the day. I decided to do a real thorough job on my then four tanks , buckets hoses all over the place not my usual tidyness as you can . Their faces a picture when change of plan came back early A brew didn't quite do it


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## Wookii

Tim Harrison said:


> I thought so, thanks. If I can make it fit I'll use it for sure. Hopefully, I'll have the hardscape done by the end of this week either way. It's about an hour fifteen to AG from where I live but well worth the drive. I got talking to a guy who'd travelled all the way up from Kent. AG's reputation definitely proceeds it and with very good reason



I’ve used AG via online orders several times, but never been to their shop.

Do they have a lot of hardscape to choose from?


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## Deano3

Wookii said:


> I’ve used AG via online orders several times, but never been to their shop.
> 
> Do they have a lot of hardscape to choose from?


I belive so george farner etc has videos were he does a shop visit and tour on YouTube and looks great with a large range of hardscape.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Sammy Islam

Wookii said:


> I’ve used AG via online orders several times, but never been to their shop.
> 
> Do they have a lot of hardscape to choose from?



Yeah they have loooaads! Front of the shop is mainly the gallery and dry goods area. The back room is full of hardscape and a plant nursery, also they have like 3 or 4 dry scape bays so you can practice/perfect your layout. Not to mention the staff will take time out to talk you everything and help you with your layout for as long as you need. Plus if you can't find the right hardscape you want in the shop i'm sure they will bring out boxes of hardscape from the back for you to look through!


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## Tim Harrison

Freezed my butt off in the garage playing around with the azalea root; still very much a work in progress...


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Freezed my butt off in the garage playing around with the azalea root; still very much a work in progress...



Rule of 3ths? Look at it 1, 2,  and 3, what do you see


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Rule of 3ths? Look at it 1, 2,  and 3, what do you see
> View attachment 131328


Haha, thanks Marcel 

So I had a break and went back to it and added some more rocks,,,


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## zozo

I still see him or it..  And i think it looks awesome.


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## Tim Harrison

Well it's time to finally wrap up this journal and make way for the next, Woodland Troll. Thank you very much to all those who have contributed to the making of this scape and journal, through comments, suggestions, or adding images etc, it's been quite a journey...

I thought it'd be a good way to finish by posting a couple of images of the scape at what, I think was, its best...


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## zozo

It was a nice journey!  Thank you for taking us with you. 

Btw is that still your Venus Flytrap RH side? Looks like grown quite a lot...


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## oscar

That was/is an outstanding planted tank


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## Wookii

One of my favourite scapes in this journals section to be honest - certainly one of the most inspiring!


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## Tim Harrison

I've found a few more pics and posted them above as well...


zozo said:


> It was a nice journey!  Thank you for taking us with you.
> 
> Btw is that still your Venus Flytrap RH side? Looks like grown quite a lot...


Thanks Marcel, and it was my pleasure. The Venus is still doing well, not digging the winter sun tho' and has died back a little 


oscar said:


> That was/is an outstanding planted tank


Thanks oscar 


Wookii said:


> One of my favourite scapes in this journals section to be honest - certainly one of the most inspiring!


Thanks Wooki, that's nice of you to say so


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## Geoffrey Rea

Looking forward to your next one @Tim Harrison


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## alto

Lovely journey (as usual) with fantastic pictures and commentary

I always love the early stages, once the plants are beginning and the wood and stone shapes are still very visible 

I’d forgotten the pinnatifida, how did it look at the end (seems like it became lost under other plants?)

And I’m curious as to actual fish numbers - I kept seeing one lemon tetra and imagined him as a bag catch with the Rosy type


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## Tim Harrison

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Looking forward to your next one @Tim Harrison


Thanks Geoffrey 


alto said:


> Lovely journey (as usual) with fantastic pictures and commentary
> 
> I always love the early stages, once the plants are beginning and the wood and stone shapes are still very visible
> 
> I’d forgotten the pinnatifida, how did it look at the end (seems like it became lost under other plants?)
> 
> And I’m curious as to actual fish numbers - I kept seeing one lemon tetra and imagined him as a bag catch with the Rosy type


Thanks alto, that's kind of you. I like the early stage as well. Most of my scapes are probably mature by 3 to 4 months, and then tend to go over and past their best. But I got a bit of collectoritis and kept packing new plants in. Plus I continued to lean from this one so it lasted a lot longer. All that, and I was too lazy to tear it down 

I think I swapped the pinnatifida out for something else, or it just got in the way of the Ludwigia or Buce and had to go. I bought half a dozen lemons but only 3 survived so it did have company, as well as others in its genus


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

I think there is definately an art to keeping a tank looking like it does in those early stages yet also having that mature yet not overgrown look... a hard balance to strike indeed


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## Deano3

Tim Harrison said:


> Well it's time to finally wrap up this journal and make way for the next, Woodland Troll. Thank you very much to all those who have contributed to the making of this scape and journal, through comments, suggestions, or adding images etc, it's been quite a journey...
> 
> I thought it'd be a good way to finish by posting a couple of images of the scape at what, I think was, its best...


I have to say that is one the most impressive and best looking scapes i have seen, so healthy,well done and thanks for all the pictures and sharing.


Well deserved round of applause.

Looking forward to the next one tim, can i ask as i want to do the same how exactly you go about tearing a tank down ?

Thanks dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> I think there is definately an art to keeping a tank looking like it does in those early stages yet also having that mature yet not overgrown look... a hard balance to strike indeed


Definitely, I think you really have to stay on top of maintenance and trimming almost on a daily basis. Even then any change will be almost imperceptible, so you may not realise the hardscape disappearing, for instance. Also, deciding when the tank is at its peak is really difficult and takes a lot of experience and luck to get right.


Deano3 said:


> I have to say that is one the most impressive and best looking scapes i have seen, so healthy,well done and thanks for all the pictures and sharing.
> 
> 
> Well deserved round of applause.
> 
> Looking forward to the next one tim, can i ask as i want to do the same how exactly you go about tearing a tank down ?
> 
> Thanks dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thanks Dean, much appreciated 

I usually remove all the plants and then hardscape first, leave the filter running and wait for everything to settle and water to clear. Once settled I syphon out half the water and as much settled mulm as possible with it and start to net the fish.

Finally, I'll go about the laborious business of netting the myriad of shrimp. Once I've convinced myself that all the shrimp have been netted for about 20th time - somehow there are always more of the little blighters  - I take out most of the water. Any shrimp left are easier to see flapping around on the sediment and easier to catch...no shrimp no matter how minuscule is left behind...

It's then just a matter of taking out the substrate and cleaning everything.


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## Deano3

Tim Harrison said:


> Definitely, I think you really have to stay on top of maintenance and trimming almost on a daily basis. Even then any change will be almost imperceptible, so you may not realise the hardscape disappearing, for instance. Also, deciding when the tank is at its peak is really difficult and takes a lot of experience and luck to get right.
> 
> Thanks Dean, much appreciated
> 
> I usually remove all the plants and then hardscape first, leave the filter running and wait for everything to settle and water to clear. Once settled I syphon out half the water and as much settled mulm as possible with it and start to net the fish.
> 
> Finally, I'll go about the laborious business of netting the myriad of shrimp. Once I've convinced myself that all the shrimp have been netted for about 20th time - somehow there are always more of the little blighters  - I take out most of the water. Any shrimp left are easier to see flapping around on the sediment and easier to catch...no shrimp no matter how minuscule is left behind...
> 
> It's then just a matter of taking out the substrate and cleaning everything.


Thanks for that tim if you dont mind i may message you as have a few questions about rescaping  but honestly hats off to you with this aquarium you have grew it out amazingly just shows time and effort pays off.

Dean

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## Tim Harrison

I don't mind


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