# [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New plants and lights



## George Farmer

> *scree [skriË]*
> n
> (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) an accumulation of weathered rock fragments at the foot of a cliff or hillside, often forming a sloping heap Also called talus



Inspired by a recent mountaineering expedition to Snowdonia.






This is my third attempt at an Iwagumi, and I think it has potential.  I think it's the strongest use of hardscape I've used in any design so far.

This dry run with the hardscape has been set up in a 60x30x30cm, but I will be transferring it into a 60x30x36cm opti-white.  

There's a couple of minor alterations I need to make, including more attention to detail with the graded gravels, but you can see the effect I am after.  The extra 6cm in height with the opti-white will also need to be taken into consideration.

Planting will be minimal with _Eleocharis acicularis_ in the background and probably nothing else.

I've used _E. acicularis_ before as a background and it provides a great backdrop in the appropriate setting; such much better than _E. parvula_ that stays shorter and has a thicker leaf.






I'll be running just one 24w HO T5 along the back of the tank, due to the relatively low plant biomass.  Photoperiod will also be minimised to prevent algae build-up on the rocks and gravels/sands, and I'll also dose Liquid Carbon to help minimise algae.

I'm undecided on fish but am considering _Sawbwa resplendens_, as these thrive in hard water and suit this layout; their body colour complimenting the rocks and gravel, but their head and tail providing a desirable subtle splash of colour.





*Aquarium Specifications*

*Aquarium* 60x30x36cm opti-white
*Lighting* Arcadia OTL (1 x 24w HO T5 6500K), 6 hours
*Filtration* JBL 1200lph external, Hydor inline heater
*CO2* 2Kg pressurised, Dennerle reg and solenoid, Boyu inline diffuser
*Fertilisation* Daily 2ml TPN+, 2ml Plantedbox Liquid Carbon
*Decor* 20Kg Seiryu Stone (Mini Landscape Rock)
*Substrate* Unipac Maui Fine Quartz Sand, Maui Course Quartz Sand, Unipac Fine Nordic Gravel, Coarse Nordic Gravel


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## oldwhitewood

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

You have placed the rocks in such a way as to not contradict their essence. Nice one.


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## alan_uk

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

as with every other of your scapes this 1 looks amazing i just wish i had the artistic talent you have to be able to set up something so natural looking


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## El Duderino

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

The hardscape looks really good but I especially like your choice of fish.  I may have to track some of these down myself.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys.



			
				oldwhitewood said:
			
		

> You have placed the rocks in such a way as to not contradict their essence. Nice one.


You've been reading too much Amano!  Thanks mate.


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## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Looking great George  look forward to the planting.


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## Lisa_Perry75

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Looks good George


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Paulo and Lisa!


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## Dan Crawford

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

BOOM! Blimey George, i'm truly impressed. A wonderful choice of hardscape and a very fresh approach to iwagumi, really bold. Great choice of plants and fish too.

Proper love it mate, can't wait to see it filled, with plants and fish, super swish!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> BOOM! Blimey George, i'm truly impressed. A wonderful choice of hardscape and a very fresh approach to iwagumi, really bold. Great choice of plants and fish too.
> 
> Proper love it mate, can't wait to see it filled, with plants and fish, super swish!


Flattery will get you everywhere mate!!   Thanks pal.


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George! Looks sweet mate. 

It's great to just practise rockwork in empty tanks, even if it doesn't get planted.

Once this is planted and grown in, I'm certain the scape will be top draw, clean cut like we've come to expect from you. 

BTW folks, i've seen high res images from George, and they really are that clean!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks mate!

I did have fun with this in an un-used tank.  

Because there's been no deadline or pressure creating this for a publication or anyone else, I found it really quite therapuetic playing with the rocks.  It's like a 3D nature jigsaw puzzle, where the solution is purely subjective and we can only chase perfection because of that.  Reminds me of Keymaker's reference to 'Flow psychology' actually.

I'll post a step-by-step when I set it up 'for real' in the opti-white, probably this weekend.


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I think it looks great George, one thing I think you might like to try is to add a slate gravel or more shards of the same rock as your landscape rock to the beige gravels you've used, think Zigs v2. 

The best of luck with the scape it has the potential to become something extraordinary.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Gareth.  Great tips!


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I think it would be a subtle but scene making alteration. Gradation is when colours and textures are introduced, if you look at Nature the largest stones tend to be of the same origin the reasons are two fold, they're large and less likely to be shifted from their source, secondly, they tend to be harder, denser rocks which are less likely to break up and therefore be washed away. Where as if you look at the sands and substrates you'll find they're made up from composites of rock with an emphasis on the local vernacular rock depending on the speed of the river, the composites of the substrates/smaller rocks tend to be lighter less dense materials and are as such swept much further from their home source and as such are rounder and of a rock type non-typical of the area. 

Hope thats of help to you. It's something I only really noticed from having to do a river study recently and was reinforced after talking it through and including the influence of glaciation and erosion patterns.


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## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Rocking!    

Subscribed...  

Its good to see you Mods back on the journals! Its been a bit quiet on here lately


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks again, Gareth.

I think I'll have a play and see what looks best for me.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Rocking!
> 
> Subscribed...
> 
> Its good to see you Mods back on the journals! Its been a bit quiet on here lately


Thanks, Andy.


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## JamesM

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Looks great G, what about some tenellus as an addition though?


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## Krishs Bettas

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I love the rock work and nice choice of fish something different is always brilliant.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, James. 

I considered _E. tennelus_ (and other carpeting plants) but felt _E. acicularis_ on its own would be lower maintenance and cleaner looking.

And thanks, Krish's Bettas!


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## Krishs Bettas

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Also I know this maybe a bit off but maybe some little moss stones dotted around.


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## Stu Worrall

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

fantasic hardscape george.  the snowdonia area does  give some great inspiration for nature and rock scapes.  I just got some E. acicularis from a garden centre pond section the other day for my next scape but was thinking of using parvula for the front as well.  I think the fish choice will work really well too.


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## flygja

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

+1 to the graded gravels comment. The roundish pebbles don't really match the rocks well, unless you're thinking of creating "rivers". The placement of the big rocks are awesome though! They must be pretty huge to create that sense of scale in a 60cm tank. And I agree, some E.acicularis or E.parvula at the back would give the scape much grandeur.

Minimalist + elegant


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## Tunafish

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Inspired by a recent mountaineering expedition to Snowdonia.


Didn't know you were a climber George, me too!.


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## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Looks great G, what about some tenellus as an addition though?



Tenellus would look great, leaping over the rocks..

One question, why isn't the small rock on the left side pointing on the same direction as the others?


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## JamesM

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> One question, why isn't the small rock on the left side pointing on the same direction as the others?


Google 'Iwagumi' and you might get it


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks great G, what about some tenellus as an addition though?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenellus would look great, leaping over the rocks..
> 
> One question, why isn't the small rock on the left side pointing on the same direction as the others?
Click to expand...

I won't be using _E. tenellus_ for the reasons I've mentioned, although I did consider it and can see it working well. However, this will be low maintenance, so it's a trade-off.

The stone facing the other direction gives a sense of tension to the design. Some may like that, others may not. That's art for you!


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## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

 Yep, art it is..  

The rock facing the other way jumped straight at me, maybe that is what tension is. If so, it fulfilled its purpose.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Luis.  It also jumps out at me, but bear in mind the planting will soften the tension.

Allow me to elaborate.

Although a good hardscape selection and design is important, especially in an Iwagumi, it's also important to consider how the planting will influence the balance of the layout.  Unfortunately it's taken years for me to understand this concept enough to implement it effectively, and I've so much more to learn yet!


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## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks George.

It has taken you years to learn the techniques, I still do not understand them.  

I can grow plants, but aquascaping does not seem very easy, I will follow this thread as it starts from the beginning, with the rocks. 

Tension I can now see how it works, as my eyes were drawn to the small rock, even that larger rocks were about. It seems that we are somewhat trained (subconsciously) to look for anything out of the pattern. It is almost diconcerting, at least for me. 

One question, when you are choosing the plants to keep, how do you stick a list? I haven't learned that yet.


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## Celestial

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George, you never fail to make me jealous  Scape looks great, and plant and fish choice sounds pretty awesome too


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> I can grow plants, but aquascaping does not seem very easy...


Well, growing plants is relatively easy.  Especially with the great selection of planted tank products these days.  As little as five years ago this was not the case in the UK.  The high quantity of good quality information that is freely available on resources like UKAPS has also helped enormously.  I am particularly proud to be part of that, if I'm honest.

Aquascaping is a very different case to plant growing.  

You can read all you like, study all the great 'scapers, but there's no substituting personal experience and practice.  

Few get a great aquascape with their first attempt (although it's becoming more common for the reasons mentioned above; better products and knowledge).  But it takes a good deal of time and effort to become a great aquascaper (I do not consider myself in that group, by the way).  Learning how different plants grow, their growth rates in different conditions, the way they interact with other plants and hardscape, they way they respond to pruning and other maintenance tasks....  The list is almost endless and they all influence the aquascape.

Then there is the minefield of choosing hardscape and plants, and their layout...  Copying others is a good idea until you gain enough confidence to try our your own ideas.  Mark (saintly) will readily admit to doing this by using a lot of Amano's work as influence.  Most of us are influenced by other aquascapes and aquascapers, especially Amano, me included.  He changed my life!

There's two main schools of thought with regards aquascaping experience.

1) Churn out as many aquascapes as you can.  
2) Keep an aquascape going for the long-term.

Each has their merits.  The Champagne solution is to have both a long-term aquascape, and a play tank where you can produce new aquascapes as often as you dare (or can afford).

Type 1 will benefit from new hardscape design experience and learning about different plant species.
Type 2 will benefit from seeing how plants grow and change over time.  Maintaining a planted tank in the long-term is an incredibly valuable lesson too, in my experience.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.



> One question, when you are choosing the plants to keep, how do you stick a list? I haven't learned that yet.


I have an idea about the aquascape in my mind.  It usually starts with the hardscape, then I think about what plants will suit both the hardscape and the overall design.  This was the case with this Iwagumi, for instance.

Sometimes it's the other way around.  I want to have a 'scape dominated with a certain plant i.e. crypts.  Then I'll think about what hardscape I can use to compliment the plants and design idea I have.  This was the case my my 120cm Crypt Eternal aquascape.

I hope that helps.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Celestial said:
			
		

> .. Scape looks great, and plant and fish choice sounds pretty awesome too


Thanks!


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## CeeJay

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Hi all


			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> The high quantity of good quality information that is freely available on resources like UKAPS has also helped enormously. I am particularly proud to be part of that, if I'm honest.


And so you should be George.
I for one, have learnt bundles round here and can now grow a tank full of plants instead of a tank full of algae   and that's thanks to you guys.
Keep up the good work


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## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

You are right George, with the amount of help and information UKAPS has, it is hard not to grow plants. 

About scapes.. I am copying yours..  

I have lots of ideas, but it is hard to put them on a live tank, as I do not know enough about plant growth and how to match them.

Got a tank that is 100cm by 50cm tall and 35 cm wide, so I will sort of copy it, keeping only my java fern on wood, and getting new rocks. 

Your contribution has invaluable to the planted tank movement in the UK, yours and the other founders.


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## sanj

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



> You can read all you like, study all the great 'scapers, but there's no substituting personal experience and practice.



I would say that with practice most people can produce a nice aquascape that is technically right following certain rules of aesthetics, but then there is the leap which comes with the personal talents of the individuals. It is a form of art afterall.


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## magpie

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

As ever - this is awe inspiring in the truest senses of both words... 

I have a question - wherever did you find that cracking rock? Every time I go into a garden centre, I look at the rock through scaping eyes now - and have yet to see anything that matches yours. Did you go to a quarry? 'Borrow' some in a rucsac from Snowdonia? What? 

thanks for the inspiration

mx


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				magpie said:
			
		

> As ever - this is awe inspiring in the truest senses of both words...
> 
> I have a question - wherever did you find that cracking rock? Every time I go into a garden centre, I look at the rock through scaping eyes now - and have yet to see anything that matches yours. Did you go to a quarry? 'Borrow' some in a rucsac from Snowdonia? What?
> 
> thanks for the inspiration
> 
> mx


Thanks, Manda.

The rock is Mini Landscape Rock.  It's also known as Seiryu Stone.  It's available from our sponsors; Aqua Essentials, The Green Machine, Plantedbox.com and Aquajardin.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

So I spent a couple of hours yesterday transferring the rocks and substrate over to my 60x30x36cm German opti-white (from Aqua Essentials).

I filled the water incredibly slowly to avoid clouding (there was still a bit) and disturbing the gravel slope.  There was a 30 litre water drum on top of a chair, on top of a table, siphoning through the blue 6mm hose.






I liked Gareth's suggestion of smashing up rock to get smaller pieces, but decided to use pieces of grey gravel instead.  I still need to use a bit more.  

To get the grey bits I used tweezers and pulled them from a pile of Unipac Nordic gravel that's 98% white.









On the way from Plantedbox.com I have a few pots of _Eleocharis acicularis_ that will be planted this weekend.

What do you think of the pale background vs. the black in the first post of this thread?  Whichever I choose totally influences my fish selection...


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## Nelson

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

it looks so much better with the grey gravel   .
i've been there picking out the "right" coloured gravel from the bag for my tank.a very tedious task   .

i like the pale background better.but i'm normally wrong   .


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Neil.

I like the pale too (it's actually no background at all with a pale wall behind).  

Trouble is, I have black plastic spraybar and inlet.  So if I intend to enjoy looking at this tank with the pale background, then I'll need to invest in some 17mm glassware, and the consequential maintenance and likely breakages!

Decisions, decisions...


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## chilled84

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I realy like this scape, Its very suttle yet leavs an impact, Its been very well thought out and executed to a T!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> I realy like this scape, Its very suttle yet leavs an impact, Its been very well thought out and executed to a T!


Thanks, chilled!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Anymore thoughts on the black vs. pale background, please?

Notice the different in lenses and light source too... (28mm vs. 50mm, overtank flash vs. T5 fluorescent).


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## Nelson

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

i think you need to get the hairgrass in first and then decide which looks better.


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

The pale background works a treat, but then i've always liked the lighter looking scape. 

The new arrangement is mental mate! real nice.


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## Gill

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

This Looks Amazing, even without any planting.


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## JamesM

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Dark background for me... nice rearrange of the rocks too


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## Stu Worrall

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

dark for me too, i think it will contrast well with the grass too.


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## oldwhitewood

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Pale background for me, every time.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys.

I'm thinking pale at the moment.  A real fresh look with the hairgrass.  Remember it's _acicularis_ so it's real tall and spiky compared with the _parvula_ that's more commonly available.

Keep the thoughts coming though; it's really interesting to hear different opinions.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Now I'm thinking a dozen or so black neon tetras with the pale background.  

An effective juxtaposition of the classic (fish) and contemporary (design) perhaps?


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## lil-lynx

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

love the marbling in the rocks . Im for the pale background


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## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*





This rock work looks excellent i can see you have spent time studying those veins and get them lined up  
plus the two rocks at the back left and right help create depth within the scape, have you done this b4?    
I have to say that i like the black background myself, but the latter rock work is better!

One question though, if you are planting acicularis and its a longer grass have you got enough height in the rocks, or is it just going to be a 'wall' along the back?


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Andy. 

I've had acicularis grow upwards of 15cm before so I'm hoping they'll be enough height and I can also prune it to length towards the edges of the layout.  

I'll also plant the hairgrass behind the rocks only, so the base of the grass won't be visible.  This will add a further sense of depth, especially if I also use a wide angle lens for photography.

As you can probably see already, it's not so much a planted tank, but a rock dominated aquascape with accent planting.

My main issue will be keeping algae under control with such low biomass, but I have a few ideas for that (see first post).


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

what lens do you reckon you'll use George? do you reckon you'll over come the 'crop factor' ?

I gota say again, this layout looks spot on. your best to date.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> what lens do you reckon you'll use George? do you reckon you'll over come the 'crop factor' ?
> 
> I gota say again, this layout looks spot on. your best to date.


Maybe I'll have to borrow someone's 5D Mk2 with a 15mm and Bowens lighting... 

Thanks mate.


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## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Pale for me too George. I'd try Elatine hydropipper as carpet plant, Bacopa sp Japan between the rocks and Rotala rotondifolia geen in the back. Eleocharis for me is so last year .


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Eleocharis for me is so last year .



but thats trying to say that nature changes daily. Grass will always be grass...especially with iwagumi.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Maybe I'll have to borrow someone's 5D Mk2 with a 15mm and Bowens lighting...



 your welcome to it.


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## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

For sure eleocharis looks neat in an iwagumi, I'm just bored using the same plants in my aquariums ... that's why I spend more money on them than on gear  .. sorry for my comment regarding the eleocharis


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> sorry for my comment regarding the eleocharis



nah mate, it's fine. It's an opinion. we've all got one, and actually, to some degree, your right. I just feel that the essence of iwagumi, is the simplicity of the plants. Thats why acicularis lends itself so well


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## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George, not sure if you've seen this or not...rocks are rocks, but this may help with choice of nackground.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Pale for me too George. I'd try Elatine hydropipper as carpet plant, Bacopa sp Japan between the rocks and Rotala rotondifolia geen in the back. Eleocharis for me is so last year .


Thanks, clonitza.

Nice plant selection you've suggested but as I've mentioned I'm keeping it real minimalist so the rocks and subtrate form the main interest to the layout; not so much the plants.

It's something to bear in mind for future layouts though, if I choose to keep the rockwork but change the planting.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> George, not sure if you've seen this or not...rocks are rocks, but this may help with choice of nackground.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/13213827


Nice one, Mark.  Thanks.  I'll take a look later (can't access Vimeo at work  )


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

That's a huge improvement George, I think I'd have putten a call into Plantedbox and asked for the dust from the bottom of their rock box. It really does look the part, I couldn't agree more on the planting, I think anything more than two species and you'll take away from the boldness of the hardscape. Accicularis is by far the best choice, it's much much thinner than the daintier versions of hairgrass and the extra length makes the overall impression much softer and dare I fall into the clichÃ© but more natural. 

The only plant I'd suggest would be fissidens fontanus on a moss stone, no more than say, 6-8 as accents in the mid-foreground. 

Pale background for me too, the drama of the black is good but I think it runs counter to the fish choice and the scape which to me say celebration/positivity, they're not a stromy scape sort of choice, at least not to me. I think a lot of people are trying to over complicate the scape with the planting, it's a common thing, look at collectoritus tanks, especially the american ones, what starts as a good hardscape ruined by adding 40,000 species of everything. I think all those that are secretly craving 20 species of plants will be blown away by the simplicity of the scape and the final outcome, I can imagine a lot of people looking at their own tanks and wondering what the difference between the two is. 

The only other change you could make is by using ADA sirayu stone because it's got superior texture . (jokes)


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## Mortis

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

For the background, how about a shaded one going from white to a shade of grey that is lighter than the rocks.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks for such a supportive post, Gareth.  Are you feeling ok mate?!?!   

Mortis - Interesting thought.  Thanks.


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Yeah, I'm fine, I have a tank scaped with Yorkstone that doesn't look that doesn't look so differnt... 

I have no issues with it, I think everything is pretty much spot on, I can't really see anything I'd have done differently. With the exception of a clay based substrate, but that's something unimportant from a aesthetic stand point as once you have the plants in it would mostly become invisible. It's more a plant growing thing and if you've got light co2 and ferts then there's no issue there. 
Also, 1x24 watts will be plenty of light for the A.a, my last tank had 1 x 24w over it and it grew faster than anything else in the tank... Till it met it's doom in a shed with no power for 2 months.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Glad you approve, Gareth! 

Let's see your Yorkstone 'scape then!


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

All in good time, mines a Wabi kusa, or will be once I've planted it, I need to figure out how to heat and filter such a small volume of water without using an external filter, it's as good as impossible finding something that will be fine in 9cm's of water internal filters are huge these days aren't they! I'll most likely use a heat mat I think, just need to go and measure them up. 

Out of interest what's the reason behind not using a clay based substrate? Speed, ease, how you intend the plants to grow? It's almost counter intuative.


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Out of interest what's the reason behind not using a clay based substrate? Speed, ease, how you intend the plants to grow? It's almost counter intuative.


Aesthetics mainly.  The plants will get what they need from the water.  We all know that nutrient-rich substrate aren't essential.  My main concern is algae but with limited light and liquid carbon I should be ok.  I may even bring out my secret weapons; ADA Phyton Git and ADA Green Bacter!


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## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I don't think you have to worry with regards algae, allelopathy will keep that at bay.

Jokes aside I don't think you need to worry, no doubt you'll be over filtering, you'll be non limiting on nutrients and you'll be comfortably inside the midlight regions regarding par I'd reckon from my past dealings, co2 will be a factor but if you're misting then that in theory covers that base because you can have more co2 reaching the plant while the level is much lower, you'll be covered there especially as you're dosing liquid carbon. I think you'll just have to dose more leanly in the long run but that said, full EI would still give the same effects long term, it's just making sure there's enough bacterial life to ensure that any spikes are minimised, that and your co2 isn't limiting. Hair grass has a reputation as an algae magnet initially but it's really not with good flow and if you're meticulous with removing any mulm/detritus which we all know you are.


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> My main concern is algae but with limited light and liquid carbon I should be ok.  I may even bring out my secret weapons; ADA Phyton Git and ADA Green Bacter!



Hey George, can you tell me the benefits of the above products and how and when you will use them, very interested.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Hi Andy

ADA Phyton Git is an anti-algae product and ADA Green Bacter apparently helps the beneficial bacterial colony, so is useful in newer set-ups.  

Of course, I cannot actually _prove_ these products work but my belief is they do help.  They're not cheap and I probably won't buy replacements when they run out (they do last a long time as you dose drops rather than millilitres), but as I have them there's certainly no harm in using them.

I'll just dose according to the instructions.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I don't think you have to worry with regards algae, allelopathy will keep that at bay.
> 
> Jokes aside I don't think you need to worry, no doubt you'll be over filtering, you'll be non limiting on nutrients and you'll be comfortably inside the midlight regions regarding par I'd reckon from my past dealings, co2 will be a factor but if you're misting then that in theory covers that base because you can have more co2 reaching the plant while the level is much lower, you'll be covered there especially as you're dosing liquid carbon. I think you'll just have to dose more leanly in the long run but that said, full EI would still give the same effects long term, it's just making sure there's enough bacterial life to ensure that any spikes are minimised, that and your co2 isn't limiting. Hair grass has a reputation as an algae magnet initially but it's really not with good flow and if you're meticulous with removing any mulm/detritus which we all know you are.


Thanks, Gareth.

To help keep algae at bay I thought I'd use nitrate and phosphate removal resins combined with a midday siesta and special plant growth tubes that grow plants but not algae...  Also a really low turnover to prevent too much oxygen that also causes algae.   Maybe some big plecs in there too.


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Garuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think you have to worry with regards algae, allelopathy will keep that at bay.
> 
> Jokes aside I don't think you need to worry, no doubt you'll be over filtering, you'll be non limiting on nutrients and you'll be comfortably inside the midlight regions regarding par I'd reckon from my past dealings, co2 will be a factor but if you're misting then that in theory covers that base because you can have more co2 reaching the plant while the level is much lower, you'll be covered there especially as you're dosing liquid carbon. I think you'll just have to dose more leanly in the long run but that said, full EI would still give the same effects long term, it's just making sure there's enough bacterial life to ensure that any spikes are minimised, that and your co2 isn't limiting. Hair grass has a reputation as an algae magnet initially but it's really not with good flow and if you're meticulous with removing any mulm/detritus which we all know you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Gareth.
> 
> To help keep algae at bay I thought I'd use nitrate and phosphate removal resins combined with a midday siesta and special plant growth tubes that grow plants but not algae...  Also a really low turnover to prevent too much oxygen that also causes algae.   Maybe some big plecs in there too.
Click to expand...


just for a second then you alomost got me!


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I sense you are getting a little buhuhued by algae. No worries, I don't think you'll have any, but for your peace of mind you can use some hard working Cardinia Japonica along with some cute little snails. Just dose EI and you'll be fine and try to stay away of cladophora 'cause it gets nasty in eleocharis.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Clonitza.  

By the way, Amano shrimp have been re-classified to _Caridina multidentata_.


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Oh I'm so living in the past, thank you!

About the snails, you have a huge range to choose from, all colors, more or less willing to eat algae or plants.
I love for example this cute little punk fellow: 

Clithon Diadema


----------



## JamesM

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks, Gareth.
> 
> To help keep algae at bay I thought I'd use nitrate and phosphate removal resins combined with a midday siesta and special plant growth tubes that grow plants but not algae...  Also a really low turnover to prevent too much oxygen that also causes algae.   Maybe some big plecs in there too.


----------



## John Starkey

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Hi George,ive not been on in a while (bloody night shifts)and i have so many journals to catch up with,well i have read through yours and i think if it does well it could be one of your best,your choice if fish if you stick with them will great,your rock work is your best yet in my opinion,i love the grey gravel you have used and i cant wait for you to get ot planted up,Oh i love the name too   ,
regards,
john.

PS: you gotta love that GARUF he is unique.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks very much for the kind words, John.  Great to see you here again mate.


----------



## oldwhitewood

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Hi Andy
> 
> ADA Phyton Git is an anti-algae product and ADA Green Bacter apparently helps the beneficial bacterial colony, so is useful in newer set-ups.
> 
> Of course, I cannot actually _prove_ these products work but my belief is they do help.  They're not cheap and I probably won't buy replacements when they run out (they do last a long time as you dose drops rather than millilitres), but as I have them there's certainly no harm in using them.
> 
> I'll just dose according to the instructions.



I use Phyton Git all the time and consider it essential, it is as critical as Penac IMHO. It has many applications, just a few drops along the side of the iPhone 4 actually boosts the signal strength.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Well, nearly Page 10 and I'm now planted!

4 pots of _Eleocharis acicularis_ from UKAPS sponsors, http://www.Plantedbox.com. 

I simply split the pots into about 10 portions each and plant with tweezers behind and in-between a few choice the rocks.

I don't prune it back until it's planted as I find it easier this way.  Some prefer to prune before planting.






I decide on 12 _Hyphessobrycon loretoensis_ (Loreto tetra).









And the heart and lungs of the operation...


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Nice and clean George, liking it very much 
I think I will need to do a rescape of my 60l very soon!


----------



## Nelson

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

this is already my favourite of your tanks   .love the rockwork.


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Definitely your best rock work to date George, no kidding. 

Not sure about your black pipe accent, lol. 

Looks really nice mate,  8)


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys! 



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Not sure about your black pipe accent, lol.


Yeah, I need some 17mm glassware really but the circulation from the spraybar is excellent.  All the hairgrass is swaying gently in the flow, even though I've deliberately pointed the spraybay upwards slightly to give good surface agitation.


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

It looks amazing. 

On the first pic, the lines on the two rocks are almost in synch with eachother, as if it was always there, and some time ago, long long ago, they broke from each other. That is really good detailing. 

Also, the shade of the bigger rock, makes it so natural to look at and for me it is a the centre point. 

Just noticed that at the back, the two rocks, far right and far left, are pointing the same way, and the fault line is almost at the same level, as if we are looking at a major cracks on the tank. 

There is a space of sand around the rock, at the back, wouldn't you fill it with some rocks as well? 

Also, on 

, it looks like a bow on the wood.

Great work, it looks really good.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Stunning.  The light colour of the sand in combination with the white background and white lines in the stone is sublime.  

Bizzarre to see both you and Saintly taking a similar minimal direction in 'scaping at the same time, maybe you've both reached similar conclusions on your 'path to aquascaping enlightenment'   ?  Maybe less truly does equal more?  Looks like the new 'philosophy' has been a great success indeed!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Luis - thanks for your observations and approval!  To answer your question, I don't think adding more rocks would add much to the design.  I may play around with the grey gravel though.  Add some more, take some away, see how it looks....

Neil - a lot of my aquascapes are relatively simple and clean looking.  

More recently my Cambodia, white cloud mountain minnow and shelldweller biotopes have proved to me that less can be more; they didn't even have any plants!  

So this design is a logical progression really.  Combining my likeness for Iwagumi with what I've learnt in the last 12 months or so.

Having said that, Mark and I do have similar tastes so it's no surprise that at some point we'd be working on similar 'scaping concepts at some point.


----------



## Stu Worrall

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

as already said, looking great planted george. The shadows the rocks make adda great sense of depth.

watch that hydor heater on its side though as aren't they supposed to be mounted vertically?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> as already said, looking great planted george. The shadows the rocks make adda great sense of depth.
> 
> watch that hydor heater on its side though as aren't they supposed to be mounted vertically?


Thanks mate.

I think you're right about the heater but don't see why it should be an issue. _Disclaimer - I take no responsibility for others doing the same and experiencing problems!_


----------



## Stu Worrall

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

the only thing I could think of was that it might overheat if it gets any air in it on the side. if its vertical any bubbles would rise out of the unit and to the top of the tubing.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

You'd think they're due a redesign, very few have cabinets with enough room to hang them properly. Mine I don't think ever was at 90degrees simply because It was impossible to do so without kinking the tubing up a treat.

Tank looks great George, even better planted. I'm sure it will reward you well. Pretty fish too, they looked great in PFK recently and I think would be a nice subtler black neon. Give it 4 weeks and this tank will be due a rescape.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Gareth. 



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> the only thing I could think of was that it might overheat if it gets any air in it on the side. if its vertical any bubbles would rise out of the unit and to the top of the tubing.


Good point!  I'll bear that in mind and turn off the heater whenever I work on the filter.  

Thanks, Stu.


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

well George, you've done it again mate...raised that UK gumi bar a tad higher. Quality stone placement yet again. 

There's much talk about 'your best stone arrangement yet'...i've even said it.

 I think it's a case of just another classy scape from you. when do we say ' we've achieved our goals' regards to every stone arrangement?...every hardscape has it's merits.  There's no 'ultimate' layout....thankfully.

Everything sits right in this tank. I'm interested to what's connected to the timer that is on for 12 hours?


----------



## eternal optimist

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

hi george, i'm new to the site but hail from the flats of lincolnshire. thought i'd say hi, and good work on the scape, gives a good impression of scale.


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> I'm interested to what's connected to the timer that is on for 12 hours?



Looks like a solenoide plug, a JBL one.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Everything sits right in this tank. I'm interested to what's connected to the timer that is on for 12 hours?


Cheers mate.

The timer isn't actually set to 12hrs.  The timer is marked up in two 12hr segments i.e. AM is white, PM is blue, which is why I think you may have misinterpreted. 

Luis correctly identified the plug for my JBL solenoid.  It comes on 2hrs before the lights and 1hr before the lights go off.

I went home yesterday and the hairgrass is showing signs of growth already and the fish have settled nicely.

I've high hopes for this aquascape.  I think it could be one of my favourites for several reasons.  It's certainly broken new ground for me on a personal level and has taught me lessons I can take forward for future projects.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*






I took the fish back; 12 Loreto tetras, as they were really unhappy in here, always hiding behind the rocks and not even feeding.  I should have asked a few more questions at the shop.  I didn't realise they were wild caught and I'll put it down to experience that many fish probably don't enjoy such open spaces combined with such a bright substrate.  So a few lessons learnt there!

The hairgrass is growing well and whilst there's no fish I've upped the CO2 and ferts, dosing 5ml TPN+ and 5ml Liquid Carbon per day.  

I don't have a CO2 drop checker so I've used another technique.

I take 5ml of tank water in a test tube and test it using bromo blue.  It's around pH 6.4 according to the chart (yellow/green).

I keep the water in its tube for 24hrs shaking it a few times to ensure the CO2 gas has escaped.

The water changes colour from yellow/green to almost blue.

I check the pH test kit chart and it reads pH 7.6.

This means that there's very likely over 30ppm CO2 in my water, according to my calculations.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Also I am after getting another cabinet.

Unfortunately due to an accident in my absence a few months ago, a lot of water leaked, resulting in some warping in this cabinet.

After seeing Jeremy Gay's awesome cabinet from Aquarium Cabinet Solutions I have thought about getting one in a dark grey gloss, with no handle, and one door that goes right up to the top of the cabinet (no horizontal lines like the ADA cabinets).  The dark grey will match my kitchen flooring and granite work tops.

Another idea is to have the cabinet slightly larger than the tank, so the filter hoses and lighting bracket can fix to the cabinet surface.  The filter hoses go up directly through the top of the cabinet, instead of the sides, so there's potentialy more flow as hoses aren't bent so much, as when they come through the cabinet sides.

Here's the principle.  Photo courtesy of Viktor Lantos, ADA Hungary.


----------



## JamesM

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Yes I do like that idea of a larger cabinet 

You should ask Neil for a quote, his cabinet build is excellent  

viewtopic.php?p=130987#p130987

'Scape is looking great too... wasn't sure about the white gravel, but it fits really well within its surroundings


----------



## bigmatt

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Could they custom build you one with the tank oversized in depth only?  That way you could preserve the clean lines at the front and still have an overhang at the back for your filter tubes to rise up through?
M


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> Could they custom build you one with the tank oversized in depth only?  That way you could preserve the clean lines at the front and still have an overhang at the back for your filter tubes to rise up through?
> M


Good idea, especially if you're using a background so the hoses would be hidden.  Not so great if you're a fan of non-backgrounds.


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Great layout George   
I do not like those oversized ADA cabinets, they somehow look wrong


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

It looks unber minimalist, its a shame you have the green tubes and grey inlet/outlet. It detracts from the simplicity of the rest of it all. 
Its a little to simple for me, but thats not my style. I think it looks cool for a while when you live with it, but then it can soon get boring. Iwagumis are like this, they dont change much, though they have the wow factor for visitors. 

Id have to put some moss in there, just a few clumps of Fissidens or something, Riccadia would look nice and its very slow growing.  

Cheers.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> It looks unber minimalist, its a shame you have the green tubes and grey inlet/outlet. It detracts from the simplicity of the rest of it all.
> Its a little to simple for me, but thats not my style. I think it looks cool for a while when you live with it, but then it can soon get boring. Iwagumis are like this, they dont change much, though they have the wow factor for visitors.
> 
> Id have to put some moss in there, just a few clumps of Fissidens or something, Riccadia would look nice and its very slow growing.
> 
> Cheers.



What do you know anyway, Edwards?  Wind your neck in!!      

Seriously though, I hear what you're saying and I appreciate your input, as I'm sure others reading this do...


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Its cool mate. I like it,im talking more about the style you are doing and the longevity of Iwagumis. 

Was there a reason for not using glassware?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Its cool mate. I like it,im talking more about the style you are doing and the longevity of Iwagumis.
> 
> Was there a reason for not using glassware?


Yeah man.  We have different styles.  I do have a 2 year-old 'scape though, that I'll share soon...  It even has moss...   

I'm not using glassware because my father-in-law threw it away.  It's a long story.  Send some my way if you like!!


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Your 'scape it's turning really nice and with some glassware it will look amazing, I really envy you guys ..


----------



## shlunkster

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Great tank George. 

The amount of thought and attention to detail that has gone into this set up really puts my efforts to shame. 

Loving the site by the way!


----------



## Dan Crawford

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Send some my way if you like!!


I'll lend you some, oh no, you only want 17mm, shame  

I'm loving this tank George, one of your best to date, i'd love to have this in my house - proper swish!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Clonitza and Shlunkster. 



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Send some my way if you like!!
> 
> 
> 
> I'll lend you some, oh no, you only want 17mm, shame
> 
> I'm loving this tank George, one of your best to date, i'd love to have this in my house - proper swish!
Click to expand...

  

Thanks pal.  

Not much to update really. I'm starting to see some minor soft brown algae forming on the rocks and gravel so may get some Otocinclus today.  Either that or out comes the toothbrush!

I'm still trying to decide on display fish choice.

Something that is brave enough not to hide in such an open and bright tank, yet something that shoals.  Unfortuntely due to the reason why most fish shoal, it's likely that such fish will hide in this tank...   :? 

I'm thinking of something really subtle that will compliment to minimalist nature of the layout.

How about some Indian glassfish?  

I think the closely spaced lines in the fins and body bring out the simple lines in the hairgrass nicely and the lack of colour doesn't detract from the simplicity of the aquascape.


----------



## Gill

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George they would make an Excellent Choice. As they Mature they get a Brilliant irridescence to their Finnage and Look Very nice when In a Group. Have kept these a few times in the past and very happy with them. Plus have been seeing them in MA recently and the prices were good aswell. 

In the pic Shown, you can already see the blue in the finnage, under the right lighting this looks amazing.


----------



## Dan Crawford

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I've thought about these loads of times, they'd be a great choice George, do it!


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

looking great mate! i'd really love to come over some time and take some pics, or maybe colaborate on the images


----------



## Fred Dulley

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Do they not require some salt? I heard roughly 7.5-11 TSP of salt per 10 gallons. Or is that not the case?
Loving the lastest pic, George


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Nope, them needing salt was a myth, heiko blehr says they've never been collected in brackish water.


----------



## Fred Dulley

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Nope, them needing salt was a myth, heiko blehr says they've never been collected in brackish water.



Thanks mate. Blehr knows his stuff alright.


----------



## orchid

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

i haven't seen such a minimal iwagumi since long time! like to see when it's mature at your eyes!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks guys.

I recently added 15 new fish; _Hemigrammus erythrozonus_ or Glowlight tetra.  

I didn't go for the glassfish in the end, as the stock in the shop didn't look too good.  The Glowlights are another subtle addition and they shoal really nicely.   They're out in the open and eating dry food readily so I'm happy with my choice.

Also added 12 Amano shrimp that have already made the tank look spotless.

The hairgrass is sending out new runners and is growing in height nicely.

I'll try to post some pics soon.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

One of the most overlooked tetras garnering the highlight, a good choice I'm sure. How are the fish taking to it being so "bright", if they're eating I'd assume well?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> One of the most overlooked tetras garnering the highlight, a good choice I'm sure. How are the fish taking to it being so "bright", if they're eating I'd assume well?


Yes, definitely an underrated tetra IMO.  I've hardly seen them used in aquascaping.

The fish look secure in their surroundings.  They're not hiding at all, and already anticipate feeding as soon as I approach the tank.   They're display their orange colouration nicely too.  Bolder than in many images I've seen online, anyway.  

CO2 is around 20ppm by my calculations, which I think helps too.  Nearer 30ppm CO2 and most fish, IME, seem to be less active.  Does anyone else notice this?


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I suppose the water quality helps, added to the fact no doubt they'll be used to bare tanks? I'm pretty certain glowlights are farmed rather than wild harvested. 

I've noticed a lethargy at around 40-50ppm but not really as low as 30ppm, it's dependant on the fish and the scape, I found that my tetras were always active in the flow and ate very well, when I moved the hardscape about it created a pocket of dead water between a rock and some ferns I found that the fish soon started to linger in this position where the flow was minimal and started to eat much less, maybe it's something similar you're noticing unless of course you've actually initiated the change in behaviour by upping or lowering the co2?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I suppose the water quality helps, added to the fact no doubt they'll be used to bare tanks? I'm pretty certain glowlights are farmed rather than wild harvested.


Yes, these were farmed in big tropical ponds in the Far East, and the tank in my LFS was almost bare.

The CO2 points are interesting.  Of course, there's no really accurate way of measuring our CO2 levels either, unless you have a pH computer attached to your drop checker solution.

When you read some of Amano's older literature his tanks are rarely quoted having over 20ppm CO2.  This combined with the quantity of light and low nitrates, however, does bring into question the accuracy of the parameters stated.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Not much to report, really.

The hairgrass is showing an interesting growth pattern in the low light and inert substrate.  It's growing upwards and not sending out many runners at all, which is perfect for this tank! 

This photo was taken a couple of weeks ago, and the tallest parts of the hairgrass are now almost to the spray bar.






The Glowlight tetras are proving to be a great fish and have coloured up brilliantly.  Another underrated fish in my view, and one you rarely see at their full potential in the shop.





Long-term I'm considering filling out the open substrate to the sides with a smaller plant that complements the hairgrass.  

_Utricularia graminifolia_ is tempting but notoriously difficult.  There's different views on whether it needs low or high nutrients, low or high light etc. etc.  Experiences and opinions welcome, of course!

Another option could be _Lilaeopsis brasiliensis_.

I have the option to add up to 4 x 24w, but would rather stay with 1 x 24w as it's so trouble-free.  No hint of algae, after 5 weeks now.  Although the 12 Amano shrimp are constantly grazing the substrate and rocks for something...


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Regarding UG if you have PH<6.5 and very soft water you are fine, it's a carnivorous plant in fact.

Nice tetras btw


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Regarding UG if you have PH<6.5 and very soft water you are fine, it's a carnivorous plant in fact.
> 
> Nice tetras btw


Any ideas why does it needs soft water?  I remember when we used to think all sorts of plants needed soft water...


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq3380.html

Go back to cultivation.


----------



## Fred Dulley

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

If it's like other carnivorous plants, then UG should prefer an inert substrate. However I've seen it in ADA soil and Flourite. Some say it doesnt like liquid carbon, whereas others report that dosing Excel hasnt caused problems.



> Utricularia graminifolia is tempting but notoriously difficult. There's different views on whether it needs low or high nutrients, low or high light etc. etc. Experiences and opinions welcome, of course!



Looks like the perfect challenge then  Of which I'm sure you could pull it off.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys!

Tropica state it does best at pH 6.8 to 7, with KH 7 to 10, which matches my water parameters.  

http://www.tropica.com/advising/plant-a ... folia.aspx

Has anyone in the UK ever grown a decent carpet of this?  

The only time I've think I've seen it successfully in the UK is in TGM's ex-Iwagumi display.


----------



## samc

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

UG can look really nice. iv heard that it prefers soft water. but a challenge none the less


----------



## NeilW

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I've been tempted by UG but I would go for my traditional dry-start - I don't think your fishes would appreciate that though  

The tank looks excellent too btw.

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> I've been tempted by UG but I would go for my traditional dry-start - I don't think your fishes would appreciate that though
> 
> The tank looks excellent too btw.
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil


Thanks, Neil.


----------



## ceg4048

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks, guys!
> 
> Tropica state it does best at pH 6.8 to 7, with KH 7 to 10, which matches my water parameters.
> 
> http://www.tropica.com/advising/plant-a ... folia.aspx
> 
> Has anyone in the UK ever grown a decent carpet of this?
> 
> The only time I've think I've seen it successfully in the UK is in TGM's ex-Iwagumi display.



http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 49&start=0

Cheers,


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

the best UG carpet what i've seen was in a Japanese tank. Placed 43 this year on IAPLC. that's my all time fav UG.





everything else just attepts  

they keep it in soft water. i also trying in soft water which seems to work well. however because of the changing hardness from RO water and Seiryu stones my GH/KH is like a roller coaster. that's why it's probably not growing to a decent carpet. but the plant looks healthy.

i also realized if you trim regulary the UG stays down. otherwise this grows large enough to pull out itself or the whole carpet from the soil.


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Just for the history of this plant in aquascape I've wanted to share with you Oliver's setup: http://www.pbase.com/plantella/hc60


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Just for the history of this plant in aquascape I've wanted to share with you Oliver's setup: http://www.pbase.com/plantella/hc60



yup this was great the UG health is awesome this is also my fav, but the scape was pretty unorganized   

here are some other stunning examples.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/435 ... bcbc_b.jpg

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/tank- ... ion-5.html

http://colectivo-cae.blogspot.com/1998/ ... quino.html


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys!  Inspirational stuff.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Number one doesn't even look real!

George I'd be surprised if you can't pull it off, it's oft quoted that the best way is to let it establish first by doing a DSM before flooding but I think it might be a bit late to do that. If your parameters are as you say identical to tropica's ideal and there's enough readily available co2 then it should fly.


----------



## flygja

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

+1 for UG. If done right (not saying I ever did that ) it has a sway to it that should suit your scape nicely. Like rolling wind blowing across a wheat field. Lilaeopsis braziliensis would be too stiff-looking IMHO.


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

-1 for UG. I just done think the tank needs it. 

I cant explain like others, but for me, it's sound as it is.   

looks ace mate.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, guys!

3 weeks or so and it will be ready for a final photo in its current state, once the hairgrass fills out a bit more and reaches the desired height through appropriate pruning etc.  Then I can consider adding UG if I wish, with a decent image already in the bag if it all goes pear-shaped!


----------



## Jase

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

This tank is gorgeous, I don't think you need the UG


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks all.

I've just spent all afternoon with Mark Evans (saintly) shooting this tank, so look out for some update shots (and video) soon...


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Such a great day mate! 

I'll start a thread in photography shortly.


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

here's the link...

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12771


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

For the benefit of those that don't venture into the photography section, here's a couple of images of George's set up.


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I always loved these rock/sand combos. great tank George!
If the parvula will lay down it will be more natural on the front. (or that's acicularis?)

maybe there are other plant which would work better with this rock form on the front than the grass, but i do not have a good example in hand to show. probably some moss, riccardia? to not loose the good ratios? a really small plant which highlight more the rocks and give a better transition between them.

few examples from the nature:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasohill/118614675/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasohill/118614881/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orangeenigma/3951555313/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasohill/2723593383/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rags1969/1 ... otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artiephoto ... 804822750/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brickhead/3593342147/

at the end i love the tank anyways, just playing with the visual in my mind.


----------



## Tom

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Maybe some weeping moss in strategic positions? Not a lot, just enough to add that extra bit to the scape


----------



## Krishs Bettas

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Those pictures look like something you would see in the ADA book they are truely beautifull!!!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks for the feedback, all!

Moss is a good idea, or Riccardia.  I also have some UG but am still unsure...


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

My recommendation would be Spiky moss, from my experience it's growth suits iwagumi planting more than any other moss because the growth pattern is much more vertical and rugged and looks more indicative of shrubbery/rough ground. 
Marks first Iwagumi, the name escapes me, but that used it very well, also, if you look carefully a lot of amanos tanks use moss in iwagumi's, especially the more "wild" ones.


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

How about "elatine hydropiper" looks like nano sized Glosso and the growth rate is much more comfortable?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks again for all the suggestions! 

I think I'll keep it simple for now and see how it fairs with just the hairgrass.  It should look better once it fills out properly between the rocks and background.  Because I'm only running 1 x 24w T5 with an inert substrate and low CO2, growth is very slow and carpeting is almost non-existent!  I'm in no rush though.

I can't compete with Mark's photography but here's a couple of my shots taken with my own camera and lens, but with Mark's lighting.  I actually prefer the plain non-blue background myself.

Thanks again to Mark for taking the time and effort to come and visit and let me use his brilliant gear!  I learnt more in a few short hours about studio lighting than I could have learnt in a life time of reading articles...  It's certainly motivated me to stop being so lazy and play with my own studio lighting more!


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Just keeps getting better George, is this one going to be at the Gallery?


----------



## CeeJay

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Loving the simplicity of this tank George.
Stunning


----------



## verchap

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I really like the fish/rock combination.. the subtle oranges in the veins of the rock that show up in those latest couple of photos make the tetras appear so vibrant but in keeping. That's great...


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Just keeps getting better George, is this one going to be at the Gallery?


Thanks mate.  Yes, I'm considering using this, and another one or two tanks, hopefully.  The other two are very different 'scapes indeed; the aim is diversity in style so hopefully something for most tastes.



			
				CeeJay said:
			
		

> Loving the simplicity of this tank George.
> Stunning


Thanks!  Less is more sometimes, I suppose.



			
				verchap said:
			
		

> I really like the fish/rock combination.. the subtle oranges in the veins of the rock that show up in those latest couple of photos make the tetras appear so vibrant but in keeping. That's great...


Nice observation.  However, I suspect the orange you see in the rocks is actually brown algae!


----------



## verchap

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

haha don't tell the fish


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Another shot of the fish.

Testament to the Canon 135mm f2 L lens.  They don't come much sharper, and this is wide open at f/2.


----------



## GreenNeedle

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Stunning picture George.  Makes me a little jealous not to have the equipment or budget. lol

Will keep on looking for 'broken LCD' ones on ebay for me to repair :rofl:

AC


----------



## Bobtastic

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Wow, goes to show that the right equipment can makes a difference. I wish I could justify L series lens to myself... 

Loving the scape!


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks mate.  Yes, I'm considering using this, and another one or two tanks, hopefully.  The other two are very different 'scapes indeed; the aim is diversity in style so hopefully something for most tastes.


Great stuff, look forward to seeing it in the flesh!


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

wow amazing shot George!

Did you used the lens with a full frame body?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, all! 

I'll be spending 10 days away from this tank as of tomorrow so we'll see how it goes when I get back...  :? 



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> wow amazing shot George!
> 
> Did you used the lens with a full frame body?


Thanks mate.

I took this with my 50D that has a cropped sensor, very similar to yours, Viktor...


----------



## Gill

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Great Shot


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

The tank and the photos are really very impressive indeed!   

It defo gives us mere mortals something to aspire too. 

One thing i will add is that the level of knowledge in aquascaping and photography is clearly evident. You cant just go and blow a load of money on the best gear without knowing what to do with it. Truly excellent results  

I hope that you do get this to the gallery as i would love to see it in the flesh!

andyh


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I took this with my 50D that has a cropped sensor, very similar to yours, Viktor...



Thanks George, i thought you shoot that with Mark's 5DM2. But now i can imagine this lens with a cropped sensor.
Thanks mate!  Still a brilliant shot.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Not much to report really.

I removed the spray bar to see what effect, if any, the direct nozzle gives on plant growth.  





I've also added a few small pieces of Mini Landscape Rock aka Seiryu Stone to the foreground.  I simply smashed up a spare piece up with an old axe (eye protection is recommended).





I scrubbed the rocks with a wire brush to remove the stubborn algae.  I actually removed each rock and cleaned them individually before replacing into a similar position.  I made some very minor adjustments, but I'm not sure if anyone will notice...





It seems my worrying about algae covering the substrate was unnecessary, and the plants remain algae-free also.  

So this is somewhat a surprising success so far, as it's now almost 3 months running, and one of the most trouble-free and low maintenance aquascapes I've run so far.  Who says you need to plant heavily?!  

Here's a re-cap of the specs -

*Tank* - Aqua Essentials 60x30x36cm German OptiWhite and cabinet
*Light* - 1 x 24w HO T5 9000K 8 hours
*Filter* - 1200lph external with inline heater
*CO2* - 2Kg FE with Dennerle reg on solenoid, inline Boyu diffuser
*Ferts* - 3ml TPN+ and 3ml Seachem Excel per day
*Substrate* - Unipac Maui Sand (inert)
*Maintenance* - 50% WC per week
*Plants* - Eleocharis acicularis
*Fish* - Glowlight tetra and Amano shrimp

For the photographers all shots were taken with tank lighting only and my 50D with 17-70mm Sigma lens.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

It's all coming together isn't it? 
Are you harbouring any plans to "soften" the foreground and midground and as a result the whole scape with moss stones? 
The more I look the more I don't think UG would be the right plant (if you are at all still considering it), moss however, in a transitory role ala Neils Mono and the larger ADA scapes would add a softness that would really compliment and juxtapose the crispness (sharpness is too crude an adjective) of the layout. I think rather than adding the usual timeless nature of moss it would make the scape feel more timely and bedded in place, the crispness of the scape to me makes it feel very transitory, in the in motion sense, and new, it has the same dynamic feel of newness with it's simplicity in lines and it's clean boundaries and junctions. Talking of the dynamics, the balance is very very finely weighted against the plants by the hardscape, something about the visual weight of the rocks pairs itself with the foreground sand and it gives an almost overpowering feel to these two elements, something that no doubt more growth will soften, moss stones would give a redressed balance in favour of the plants, I don't want to say help the balance that sound extremely patronising, it could also be a aspect of the skewed photograph that's added to that. 

Don't let any of that be a deterrent though, It's still one of, if not the best iwagumi out there at the moment in my opinion, and better still it's something of a mould breaker.


----------



## flygja

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Hi George, the addition of the smaller stones at the front looks really good in my opinion. Do you run your external filter at full blast? I have a 60cm tank filtered through an Eheim 2215 650lph. I find that the flow is reduced by a lot after it hits the opposite side of the tank. I do have another Fluval 405 with 1200 lph and am wondering if I should use that instead. How do the fish like it at 1200 lph in yours? 

Thanks.


----------



## flygja

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

>



Goodness! That is an awesome shot! I've been trying to shoot like this for years and I still haven't cracked it...


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Gareth and flygja.



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> Do you run your external filter at full blast?  How do the fish like it at 1200 lph in yours?


Yes.  But I do have an inline heater and CO2 diffuser so these restrict flow a little.

The fish seem very happy in the flow.  In my experience most fish seem to thrive in tanks with good circulation.  I have a theory that it makes them more physically fit.  Feed them regularly with good quality foods and this ensures that they have plenty of energy to swim in the currents.  There's always areas of lower circulation when they fancy a rest too.  Most fish seem to shoal better in tanks with good flow too.


----------



## flygja

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks George. I see my Hengel Rasboras getting a bit skittish in high currents and they usually stay at low current areas until feeding time, so I'm just wondering if its ok. I originally had my tank in a similar inlet/outlet arrangement as yours but I'm getting BGA in a few areas. I'm suspecting poor circulation in those areas.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

3 months on and it's looking better than ever, in my humble opinion.





I know Cardinal tetras may seem a bit cliched in Iwagumi layouts but I really like them in here. 





I've moved the Glowlight tetras into my 80x45x45cm Dutch 'scape, where they seem very happy indeed! 

Nothing much else to report.  The rocks need a good scrubbing every couple of weeks, but it's the only algae I see in here.





The hairgrass also requires keeping in check.  I simply remove excess runners and re-plant if I feel the need.  The tips are pruned too, every so often, depending on the location.

Next on the agenda is to upgrade the black plastic inlet/outlet to glassware!


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

It does look very nice George. You can add a dwarf ciclid pair there, let them spawn, feed & watch the little ones ..


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

These fish suit the scape _way_ better than the others.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Incredible, IMO well up there with Amano with both the 'scaping and photography.  Something definitely to aspire to for us mere mortals.


----------



## John Starkey

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Not much to report really.
> 
> I removed the spray bar to see what effect, if any, the direct nozzle gives on plant growth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also added a few small pieces of Mini Landscape Rock aka Seiryu Stone to the foreground.  I simply smashed up a spare piece up with an old axe (eye protection is recommended).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scrubbed the rocks with a wire brush to remove the stubborn algae.  I actually removed each rock and cleaned them individually before replacing into a similar position.  I made some very minor adjustments, but I'm not sure if anyone will notice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems my worrying about algae covering the substrate was unnecessary, and the plants remain algae-free also.
> 
> So this is somewhat a surprising success so far, as it's now almost 3 months running, and one of the most trouble-free and low maintenance aquascapes I've run so far.  Who says you need to plant heavily?!
> 
> Here's a re-cap of the specs -
> 
> *Tank* - Aqua Essentials 60x30x36cm German OptiWhite and cabinet
> *Light* - 1 x 24w HO T5 9000K 8 hours
> *Filter* - 1200lph external with inline heater
> *CO2* - 2Kg FE with Dennerle reg on solenoid, inline Boyu diffuser
> *Ferts* - 3ml TPN+ and 3ml Seachem Excel per day
> *Substrate* - Unipac Maui Sand (inert)
> *Maintenance* - 50% WC per week
> *Plants* - Eleocharis acicularis
> *Fish* - Glowlight tetra and Amano shrimp
> 
> For the photographers all shots were taken with tank lighting only and my 50D with 17-70mm Sigma lens.



Hi george,i used the direct nozzle method on my two eheim 2028,s in the big tank, it produced great flow alround,
loving the cardinals,
regards,
john.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> It does look very nice George. You can add a dwarf ciclid pair there, let them spawn, feed & watch the little ones ..


Thanks.  I like dwarf cichlids, especially colourful Apistogrammas and Rams, but I don't feel they're really suited to this aquascape, in my view.  Thanks for the feedback though. 



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Incredible, IMO well up there with Amano with both the 'scaping and photography. Something definitely to aspire to for us mere mortals.


Wow!  Now there's the best compliment someone like me could ever hope for.  I don't quite agree, but thank you so much anyway. 



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> These fish suit the scape _way_ better than the others.


Glad you approve, Mark.  Thanks! 



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi george,i used the direct nozzle method on my two eheim 2028,s in the big tank, it produced great flow alround,
> loving the cardinals,
> regards,
> john.


Thanks, John.  

Growth has improved with this over the spraybar, which was a surprise for me.

Here's another shot.  For your interest the ripples are created via my filter outlet and the lighting is simply 4 x T5.


----------



## Anonymous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

When I watch my lush latino scape I tend to get all the crazy ideas on moving stones, plants, a different trimming maybe but when I watch yours I can only think at that Japanese guy in his garden moving the sand here and there all day long. I don't have any other ideas, it looks calm and perfect to me. 

Have you switched from fork to sticks lately? 

I totally agree with Neil on photography .

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

the Cardinals are much more pleasing on the eye, George. Great last shot.


----------



## Dan Crawford

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Thats looking awesome George. Super clean too - classic Farmer but stop polishing your rocks and lets see a bit of algae on them......


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> the Cardinals are much more pleasing on the eye, George. Great last shot.


Thanks! 



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Thats looking awesome George. Super clean too - classic Farmer but stop polishing your rocks and lets see a bit of algae on them......


Thanks pal.  I just can't handle dirty rocks in such an otherwise clean-looking tank!


----------



## ukco2guy

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

George,

Awesome as ever, i always look forward to your next creation! Quick couple of questions if i may...

Lighting, a little confused. Mentioned above about 1x24w T5 and then further down 4x T5, which one? As i have just started my first Gumi and have 4x24w t5`s at my disposal i wondered wether you went to all 4 after a while of it settling down.

Substrate - Is that just sand with nothing underneath? I think i made a mistake on mine and just used OliverKnott substrate, now if i move anything i get dust on all the leaves.. Next time i think i`ll add some gravel on top!

Cheers,


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				ukco2guy said:
			
		

> Awesome as ever, i always look forward to your next creation!


Thanks! 



			
				ukco2guy said:
			
		

> Lighting, a little confused. Mentioned above about 1x24w T5 and then further down 4x T5, which one? As i have just started my first Gumi and have 4x24w t5`s at my disposal i wondered wether you went to all 4 after a while of it settling down.


Sorry for the confusion.  The tank is usually lit with 1 x T5 for 8 hours.  I use 4 x T5 for photography.  I tend to use lower lighting as it means lower maintenance, lower cost, and less risk of algae.



			
				ukco2guy said:
			
		

> Substrate - Is that just sand with nothing underneath? I think i made a mistake on mine and just used OliverKnott substrate, now if i move anything i get dust on all the leaves.. Next time i think i`ll add some gravel on top!


This is plain Maui Sand from Unipac.  It's completely inert and doesn't contain any nutrients.  I've used it in a few aquascapes now and I really like it.  I rely on TPN+ for my nutrient dosing.


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

George

Said it before but this is really a stunning creation! 

If you find there aint enough on algae on your rocks and you need some to clean come over to mine and don't forget your toothbrush!

Andy


----------



## Aeropars

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

George,

I've noticed yu are starting to lower you rlighting in nearly all your recent scapes. Have you come across any plantswhich has not liked it and wouldn't grow?
What kind of WPG are you getting on these tanks?

I'm running 4 x T8's over a 180l but was wondering if I can reduce lighting any more yet still grow the likes of Blyxa?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				Aeropars said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> I've noticed yu are starting to lower you rlighting in nearly all your recent scapes. Have you come across any plantswhich has not liked it and wouldn't grow?
> What kind of WPG are you getting on these tanks?
> 
> I'm running 4 x T8's over a 180l but was wondering if I can reduce lighting any more yet still grow the likes of Blyxa?


I've had to run higher lighting in my latest Dutch tank, as some of the "low down" plants were suffering due to taller plants overshadowing.  Even then we're only talking 2wpg.   

Better to concentrate on decent CO2/nutrients and their delivery via good circulation IME.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

A recent in-situ shot.  This is the dining area of my kitchen.





I like in-situ shots.  I think it's important for our aquascapes to fit nicely into our living spaces.


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

nice shot, George. Fits well into the living space. Nice lamp shade as well!


----------



## misscaretaker

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> A recent in-situ shot.  This is the dining area of my kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like in-situ shots.  I think it's important for our aquascapes to fit nicely into our living spaces.



I love other people's in-situ shots as they always have lovely tidy houses! I'd have to spend a day cleaning before I dared pot an in-situ photo of my tanks   
As always, your tank is fantastic


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> A recent in-situ shot.  This is the dining area of my kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like in-situ shots.  I think it's important for our aquascapes to fit nicely into our living spaces.



So i showed my wife Bex the above photo, i am afraid she didn't even notice the world class Aquascape in the corner, she simply said " I like that funky light fitting"


----------



## nry

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

What luminaire are you using George?  I'm wondering on reducing my lighting level sometime, and if that one holds the single T5, it's a good option


----------



## John Starkey

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A recent in-situ shot.  This is the dining area of my kitchen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like in-situ shots.  I think it's important for our aquascapes to fit nicely into our living spaces.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i showed my wife Bex the above photo, i am afraid she didn't even notice the world class Aquascape in the corner, she simply said " I like that funky light fitting"
Click to expand...


Hey Andy thats unreal because my wife said the same about the light,i was showing her the picture of Georges little girl Florence,
Nice shot George.


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Lovely shot George! I can't add anything to your scape.  That's done. Beauty job.

The only comment i have is ....your scape shouts for a sleaker nicer lighting. Ask for a hanging Solar green or a hanging ATI from Santa


----------



## sanj

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Yes,

just imagine that tank with a minimal hanging pendant ...ADA or ATI both would look great.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

One of the LED units from elos, oof, glitter and that scape... It'd be too perfect wouldn't it.


----------



## viktorlantos

*[IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> One of the LED units from elos, oof, glitter and that scape... It'd be too perfect wouldn't it.



Hmm would be sexy too


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Thanks, guys.  I really appreciate the feedback. 

I did another photoshoot yesterday.  All I'm going to say is PFK Christmas issue and front cover, Aqua Journal style.


----------



## oliverar

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

I am really sorry if you have already said, but what is the sand you are using?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

It's Unipac Maui Sand (fine).  Your nearest Maidenhead Aquatics outlet may stock it.  If not, then ask.


----------



## oliverar

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Great, thank you!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*

Not quite a square-on FTS.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - New fish and photos*



			
				nry said:
			
		

> What luminaire are you using George?  I'm wondering on reducing my lighting level sometime, and if that one holds the single T5, it's a good option


Sorry, missed this post.

This is a 60cm Arcadia 4 x 24w HO T5 overtank lumaire, but I've removed one of the tubes.  2x tubes are independently plugged, so by removed one tube I can just have the one tube during the photoperiod.

These units aren't for sale new any more, as far as I know.  Arcadia have replaced them with their OT2 luminaires that complies with current legislation regarding waterproofing and I'm not sure if they work if one tube is removed.  They are relatively expensive too, at over Â£200 RRP.


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

The tank looks amazing. The rock lines are just perfect.

Would you trim the hairgrass, or leave it like that?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Luis.

I am pruning the hairgrass weekly, including removing runners to keep things in check.  It's therapeutic, actually, along with scrubbing the rocks! 

It's over 3 months old now.  Left to its own devices, the hairgrass would be all over the place...


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George

Can you talk to the fishes!?

"right lads, i want you all to swim in formation from left to right now!"

Really good photo! you must of taken a few to get that one!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*






			
				andyh said:
			
		

> George
> 
> Can you talk to the fishes!?
> 
> "right lads, i want you all to swim in formation from left to right now!"
> 
> Really good photo! you must of taken a few to get that one!


  

Thanks mate.

Yeah, I talk to the fish.  Doesn't everyone?  And the plants too.  It helps them grow.


----------



## ukco2guy

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George,

Why do you keeping doing this? Looking at yet `another` one of your fantastic shots makes me look at mine and think,  yup i got a long way to go yet! Seriously, awesome pic and a really cool effect with the formation of the fish 

Cheers,


----------



## Dan Crawford

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Fantastic George, simply stunning!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ukco2guy said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> Why do you keeping doing this? Looking at yet `another` one of your fantastic shots makes me look at mine and think,  yup i got a long way to go yet! Seriously, awesome pic and a really cool effect with the formation of the fish
> 
> Cheers,


Thanks!  



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Fantastic George, simply stunning!


Cheers pal.   I'm looking forward to seeing your forthcoming project!


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks, Luis.
> 
> I am pruning the hairgrass weekly, including removing runners to keep things in check.  It's therapeutic, actually, along with scrubbing the rocks!
> 
> It's over 3 months old now.  Left to its own devices, the hairgrass would be all over the place...



It looks really good.

Everytime I see it it reminds me of mountain hills, very peaceful but wild at the same time. Captivating is the word to use.


----------



## keymaker

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Wow Mate. Great minimalist scape! I love it! Rock placement is perfect - looks so natural.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Aww, shucks, guys!  You're making me blush!    

I am really happy with this 'scape.  It's surprisingly low maintenance and seems to be getting better every week!


----------



## Gill

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Simply stunning, gets better with each shot.


----------



## schraptor

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Great tank George and from what I can see no substrat, just a gravel and TPN + Carbon as ferts?
Really good job !


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				schraptor said:
			
		

> Great tank George and from what I can see no substrat, just a gravel and TPN + Carbon as ferts?
> Really good job !


Thanks, and welcome to UKAPS!

Yes, inert sand, TPN+, liquid carbon and CO2.


----------



## jay

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

This has turned out really beautifully. Clinical but soft. Hard to explain but I'm sure everyone understands.
Throw in a couple of Riccia stones and I can imagine Amano going all giddy and saying how it reminds him of a Japanese waterway. 

Don't do it though 
Tank is great with just the hairgrass. Really shows you don't need to go mad with buying pot after pot of plants to make a great 'scape.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, jay!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

A few updates but no recent pics at the moment, but here's before and after images to highlight the progress over the last 3 months or so.










I have some glassware (inlet and outlet) but the diameter is about 1mm smaller than my hose, resulting in leaking.

Firstly I tried cable ties - no joy.  

Then jubilee clips - still leaking.  When I think about it there's no surprise, as the hose is being pinched.

So finally I have used some heat shrink.  It's usually used for insulating electric cables.  You simply slide it over the cable (glassware in this case) then use a heat gun (a powerful 'hair dryer'), and it shrinks to form a tight jacket.  This has effectively increased the diameter of the glassware so the hose will now hopefully fit without any leaks.

I will try it out this weekend and post some update pics.

I also have a new gloss white cabinet and 17mm Cal Aqua lily pipes on their way from Aquajardin.  So I'll replace the ill-fitting lily pipes.

I am also scrubbing the rocks every week with a steel-wire brush to keep the rock looking clean and in-keeping with the clinical nature of the whole design.  The new glassware and gloss white cabinet should further add a sense of minimalism.  I am also considering suspending a 150w MH above the tank in the longer-term.


----------



## chilled84

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Im realy like this george, Imagine it on a larger scale, say 4ft 2ft 2ft, Yummy.


----------



## schraptor

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George,

I might have missed this one in 23 pages of this thread, but have you put anything below the stones? I mean according to your first post, there are around 20kg of stones in the tank. I have a similar amount to be used in my scape and I'm a bit worried about the bottom glass of the tank. I'll be using Amazonia as substrat and on top of it the stones.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				schraptor said:
			
		

> George,
> 
> I might have missed this one in 23 pages of this thread, but have you put anything below the stones? I mean according to your first post, there are around 20kg of stones in the tank. I have a similar amount to be used in my scape and I'm a bit worried about the bottom glass of the tank. I'll be using Amazonia as substrat and on top of it the stones.


I sloped the sand first, then positioned the rocks on top.  Simple as that!


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Just keeps getting better, I still hope to see this one soon (fingers crossed)  Congrats George


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Just keeps getting better, I still hope to see this one soon (fingers crossed)  Congrats George


Thanks mate.  Hope to see you soon!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Tank still looking excellent!

You may be able to help my ignorance - by making the choice of sand instead of the usual soil as a substrate in an iwagumi do you have issues with pockets of gas/other nasties building up at the deepest part of the slope at the back?  Is it sand all the way through or gravel as a base layer?  Do you make use of a gravel cleaner in your maintenance?  I've only really seen gravel and sand used flat or as capping for a soil based substrate.  Sorry for the bombardment of questions.

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Tank still looking excellent!
> 
> You may be able to help my ignorance - by making the choice of sand instead of the usual soil as a substrate in an iwagumi do you have issues with pockets of gas/other nasties building up at the deepest part of the slope at the back? Is it sand all the way through or gravel as a base layer? Do you make use of a gravel cleaner in your maintenance? I've only really seen gravel and sand used flat or as capping for a soil based substrate. Sorry for the bombardment of questions.
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil


Thanks, Neil.  Questions are more than welcome!

I've had no issues with the sand substrate.  It is not too fine - about 1-2mm grain size and I am using no other substrate, just Unipac Maui Sand.

It's been set up for 4 months now and is still going strong and I've never used a gravel cleaner. 

I can only assume that a combination of regular large water changes, healthy plant/root growth, large shrimp stock, overfiltration and low fish load helps to ensure that there are no issues.

I'm borrowing a friend's 10-24mm Tokina lens this weekend so will try to post some funky wide angle shots soon! 

I've also just added 20 cherry shrimp (thanks, Sam!), and re-homed the Amano shrimp into my nano.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Interesting stuff, cheers George.  I'd mistakenly got the impression that deep banks of sand was a bad thing but obviously your tank proves otherwise and certainly looks great!  I think the larger grains are the key then, so it won't compact but are still small enough so it wont trap waste like gravel can.  

One of my reasons for asking was taking a look into a good substrate for my new nano.  I'm liking the more sand based layouts with 'islands' (like style V in the AquaJournals   ).  I am now thinking of using sand, but with the addition of wabi kusa balls of HC/moss/hairgrass of varying sizes in key areas to build the 'islands' so I get the benefits of both without having to worry about dividing both sand and soil.  In a similar way to this link but with the balls more bedded into the sand and more complex with hardscape.  Could be quite a nice way to build a layout.

Looking forward to the new photos.

Cheers again,
Neil


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Here's a quick video.  This aquascape is almost 5 months old now and I'm still not bored of it!



Nothing much to update really.  It's a real pleasure to maintain this and relax afterwards by sitting there with a cup of tea and simply watching.

More photos to follow soon.


----------



## Mark*

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

I love the simplicity, beautiful, very serene.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Mark.


----------



## Nelson

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

its a stunning scape.i feel lucky that i got to see it in the "flesh"   .


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Neil.


----------



## Mirf

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Wonderful video. I could happily sit and watch that all day too!

May I ask another stupid question? How do you guys heat your tanks, as I never see any ugly heaters in any of the them.....do you have special 'ninja' thermostats?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				Mirf said:
			
		

> Wonderful video. I could happily sit and watch that all day too!
> 
> May I ask another stupid question? How do you guys heat your tanks, as I never see any ugly heaters in any of the them.....do you have special 'ninja' thermostats?


Thanks, Miranda. 

That's a good question.  Some of us don't heat our tanks i.e. those with warm houses and tolerant fish/inverts.  Others, me included, use external inline heaters that fit inline with the external filter outlet hose.  The same goes for CO2 injection.  I am using an inline diffuser.  I think there's a photo of the inside of my cabinet somewhere in this thread if you can be bothered to look through!


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> its a stunning scape.i feel lucky that i got to see it in the "flesh"   .



Yep, the scape is amazing. There is a lot of detail that is not visible either on pics or on the video. Really a good work.


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> nelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its a stunning scape.i feel lucky that i got to see it in the "flesh"   .
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the scape is amazing. There is a lot of detail that is not visible either on pics or on the video. Really a good work.
Click to expand...

Was glad George brought this one down to London, one of my favourites, the only thing I didn't like about it was carrying it up a flight of stairs into the car lol


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> nelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its a stunning scape.i feel lucky that i got to see it in the "flesh"   .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the scape is amazing. There is a lot of detail that is not visible either on pics or on the video. Really a good work.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Luis! 



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nelson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its a stunning scape.i feel lucky that i got to see it in the "flesh"   .
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, the scape is amazing. There is a lot of detail that is not visible either on pics or on the video. Really a good work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was glad George brought this one down to London, one of my favourites, the only thing I didn't like about it was carrying it up a flight of stairs into the car lol
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks so much for you help mate.  It was a real team effort with you, and Matt and Rik helping out with the fish collecting!  It was really, really appreciated.


----------



## fandango

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

This is one of my favourite tanks here. The stone arrangement looks very ecstatically beautiful and natural, the minimal choice of plants and fish compliments it and the light gravel around it all helps to focus the eye.

regards,
Paul


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Paul!


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Here's a quick update after being away from home and decent Internet access for almost 3 weeks... Did you miss me?!   

As usual, nothing much to report.  I'm still loving the 'scape and it's causing me no problems at all, except some minor algae build-up on the rocks.

I took these pics just before I went away.  I will update some new pics soon.






















It's hard to believe this 'scape is almost 6 months old now.

Season's Greetings to you all!


----------



## andyh

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George  

*One* - Bloody cracking photos as usual, all giving something slightly different. I think the partial tank shot is great!
I assume thats your daughter looking into the tank, and once again can see you have been talking to the fishes and asking them to look your daughter in the eye!  

*Two* - How healthy is that looking! You make me sick!   How do you keep it so clean?

*Three*- on a daily basis what is your light power in watts and how long for ?

*Four*- Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you Dude!

*Five* - just reading your latest article in PFK no rocks or stone! Old school!  

Cheers
Andyh


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks, Andy! 

1) Thanks.  I try to mix up the photography, as the 'scape doesn't change much.

2) It's not much effort to keep it clean.  Just rock-scrubbing, mainly.

3) Lighting is 1 x 24w HO T5 for 7hrs.

4) Merry Christmas, Andy!

5) That was a challenge!


----------



## nry

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

That sand is so clean!  Lovely as per!


----------



## TDI-line

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Sweet scape George, nice work, again.


----------



## JEK

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

It's so stylish and clean. Amazing.  It got a "beachy" feeling with the sand, rocks and "grass".


----------



## schraptor

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

George,

I really like the shot with your daughter in front of the tank   
The one with the shrimp is also looking good. Care to share your photo equipment list and settings used for these shots?

All in all a very clean and pleasant to view tank.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks. 

My camera body is a Canon 50D.  Currently I have three lenses; Sigma 17-70mm f2.8-4.5, Canon 50mm f1.8, and Canon 100mm f2.8 macro.  

Generally speaking, I use the Sigma for wider angle stuff, the 50mm for full-tank shots, and the 100mm macro for close-up stuff.

Usually I'll rely on aquarium lighting, so use wider apertures and up to ISO 800+ if I want to freeze fish movement.

You can view individual camera settings for each image (EXIF data) on my Flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgefarm ... 611072033/ 

Thanks again.


----------



## Antoni

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Lovely tank and stunning shots!

I like this pure and tidy style of scaping!


----------



## schraptor

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Thanks George. 
I'm thinking about buying 50mm, as currently I have only kit lenses 18-55mm.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree*

Almost 7 months old!  It's been my favourite 'scape for lots of reasons. 





Time for a re-scape but I will be using the original rockwork and different plants.  

Amano calls this concept, “Sozo Haishoku (creative plant rearrangement).”  

Here's some last shots before the re-plant.

















The hand of destruction (or creation?!)


----------



## Angus

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

what filter is that george? cant wait to see the new scape ive been reading up on Sozo Haishoku lately, sounds like a really good technique to prolong a rock scape and make it interesting again.

Regards, Gus.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Thanks, Gus. 

It's a Fluval G6.  Awesome bit if kit, but not cheap, unfortunately.


----------



## Angus

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

fly like a g6.... lol! i can bet it aint cheap just from looking at it, looks mint though, i seen your new twitter feed too  kudos to you, are you the first aquascaper on twitter?


----------



## Tom

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Fantastic final full tank shot  I don't understand how your sand is soo white!!


----------



## Piece-of-fish

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

This first photo from final series is amazing. Good luck in the comps.
Looking forward to your new creations


----------



## JEK

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Both your photography and aquascaping skills are amazing, George! A sight for sore eyes.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				fozziebear said:
			
		

> fly like a g6.... lol! i can bet it aint cheap just from looking at it, looks mint though, i seen your new twitter feed too  kudos to you, are you the first aquascaper on twitter?


Ha ha!  Yeah, every time I hear that tune I think of my filter!  It is great. The best thing is how easy it is to maintain.  It takes less than a minute to clean the pre-filter.   The only other bit I touch is the biological media every 6 months!

I was recommended Twitter by a few people.  It's very useful for me, seeing the latest news in the industry by various personalities.  My Tweets are relatively dull but perhaps they entertain or interest someone out there!



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Fantastic final full tank shot  I don't understand how your sand is soo white!!


Thanks, Tom. 

I've been asked about the sand a lot.  It was my biggest concern about keeping this tank.  Its success, in terms of keeping clean, is a combination of a few things -

1) Low light intensity and short photoperiod
2) Liquid carbon
3) Lots of shrimp keeping the grains turned over
4) Weekly sifting through the sand with my fingers
5) Large weekly water changes
6) Hugely overfiltered



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> This first photo from final series is amazing. Good luck in the comps.
> Looking forward to your new creations


Thanks, Edward! 



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> Both your photography and aquascaping skills are amazing, George! A sight for sore eyes.


Thanks, Johan!


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Glad I finally got to see one of your tanks in front of me, look forward to the rescape  Just keeps getting better George.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Glad I finally got to see one of your tanks in front of me, look forward to the rescape  Just keeps getting better George.


Thanks, Paulo.  Real nice to hear comments like that mate.


----------



## B7fec

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Absolutely stunning George, the simplicity of the scape is both relaxing and striking at the same time. Am really interested to see the new planting, it's something I am thinking of doing with my current scape. Are you planning on changing the substrate? 

I have a fluval G3 stunning piece of kit indeed! Although a built in heater would of been nice!
Cheers Ben


----------



## Radik

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Nice and simple scape. What amount of gravel was used? 12.5kg was enough? Are you propping up stones somehow to reduce gravity effect? Cheers.


----------



## nayr88

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Stunning!!  One of my favorite tanks ever. 
Its really inspired me to try iwagumi sometime soon.

What is the deal with the G6? What's the turn over ect? I did look at one briefly and found most of the feature to be abit over the top. Such as telling you when your media is finished with or PH I dunno maybe its just me haha I mean look at what you've created haaha. Could you tell us what's makes it worth the extra bucks?


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> Absolutely stunning George, the simplicity of the scape is both relaxing and striking at the same time. Am really interested to see the new planting, it's something I am thinking of doing with my current scape. Are you planning on changing the substrate?
> 
> I have a fluval G3 stunning piece of kit indeed! Although a built in heater would of been nice!
> Cheers Ben


Thanks, Ben. 

I'm keeping the old substrate.  No need to change it, and it would be almost impossible to get the rocks exactly the same again.  One idea I have is once the new plant layout is complete, I can take a full-tank shot using the same lighting and camera settings (might need to adjust exposure due to dense planting).  This will give a high-impact before and after effect, like Amano's work, but obviously not as good!

The Rotala you sent (in its amazing packaging!) has been pruned once already!

Yes, not sure why they didn't put a heater in the filter.  Would have preferred that over a conductivity monitor.  I'm waiting for a filter with a built-in heater, CO2 reactor and CO2 digital read-out!



			
				Radik said:
			
		

> Nice and simple scape. What amount of gravel was used? 12.5kg was enough? Are you propping up stones somehow to reduce gravity effect? Cheers.


Thanks.  I used about 12Kg of Unipac Maui sand.  No 'propping up'', just banked up.  It did slide in transit when I moved the tank to and from London.



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Stunning!! One of my favorite tanks ever.
> Its really inspired me to try iwagumi sometime soon.
> 
> What is the deal with the G6? What's the turn over ect? I did look at one briefly and found most of the feature to be abit over the top. Such as telling you when your media is finished with or PH I dunno maybe its just me haha I mean look at what you've created haaha. Could you tell us what's makes it worth the extra bucks?


Thanks, Ryan. 

I've tested the flow output of the G6 and it's just over 1000lph - with 12mm lily pipes fitted.  So I'm physically getting 20x turnover which is plenty.  The inline diffuser ensures CO2 distribution is excellent too.

You can set the computer to remind you when to clean/change the media.  You set the intervals yourself.  It's not needed if you're an obsessive maintainer like me, but some people will find it useful.

You can set the computer to alert you if various parameters are met i.e. too low/high temp, low flow etc.  Again, you set the parameters yourself according to your circumstances.

The mech and chemical chambers are quick-release and removable without stripping down the filter at all.  It's so simple - takes seconds with no water spillage.  

I don't bother replacing any media - it's expensive.  The carbon cartridge is now just biological media, and the pre-filter is cleaned weekly with the supplied brush.  The biological media is harder to get to, but because the pre-filter is so good you only need to clean it every 6 months or so.

The computer is cool.   It plots graphs telling you how stable your temperature is.   The temp readout is accurate to 0.1C/F.  It plots graphs for flow so you can tell if your pre-filter or hoses need cleaning.

The most controversial feature is the conductivity meter.  This tells you how much dissolved 'stuff' is in your water.  The more stuff, the higher conductivity. 

The idea Hagen has is that it's a reflection of water quality i.e. dissolved waste matter etc. will increase conductivity.  When I kept my Dutch, the plants were using so much nutrients, the conductivity actually stayed stable, even though I was pumping a lot of ferts in dailly, and had greedy fish eating lots of food and creating waste.  You could perhaps use this to calcuate nutrient dosing more accurately if you're into that kind of thing!  It's also useful for open-topped tanks where evaporation leads to hardening of the water unless topped up with RO, or massive water changes are undertaken.

Interestingly the conductivity in this Iwagumi rockets over the week from a baseline of around 750 to 900 over the week.  This is due to the rocks containing limestone, no doubt.

The build quality is superb and it looks cool, in my view.  I even like the grey hose supplied.

The supplied fittings work well - there's a spray bar kit and double-nozzle outlet.  Glassware for me though.

In summary there's loads of features that you don't need, but they can help. 

Whether or not it justifies the high price tag? That's a personal decision that only an individual can make.  I do think they're an excellent product and wouldn't hesistate to recommend the Fluval G to anyone that asks and has a suitable budget.


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## nayr88

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Thanks for that George. It does sound good, and looks amazing. I didn't realise the flow was that high and even via glassware inline heater and deffuser!! 

Good luck with the next one


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## B7fec

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Glad the Rotala has settled in...it is a rampant grower for sure, I love the stuff! I cannot wait to see the new plant layout, looking forward to seeing some photo's. The idea of the high impact photo etc is a real good one, go for it.

Now that'd be a filter to get hold of!! anything else we could chuck in!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Thanks for that George. It does sound good, and looks amazing. I didn't realise the flow was that high and even via glassware inline heater and deffuser!!
> 
> Good luck with the next one


Forgot to mention, the G6 (and G3) runs almost silently, even situated outside the cabinet.

Regarding the flow, it has a 2460lph pump, so not surprising it's delivering 1000lph perhaps.


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## nayr88

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

I'm sold! Haha

Now to explain to the girlfriend why I NEED an optiwhite 60cm and a G6
Still should go down better than when I told her ill be spending 3weeks in thailand at the end of the year :O


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## Themuleous

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Really nice photos, but the scape is a bit harsh for me, too much rockwork.  But horses for courses, that's not to take away from the lack of algae and healthy fish and plants 

Sam


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Really nice photos, but the scape is a bit harsh for me, too much rockwork.


Fair one, Sam.  I agree - it's a bit harsh on the eyes, lots of jagged edges, spikey grass, stark areas etc.  

That was the intention, to a degree, as the 'scape was inspired by a big pile of rocks - hence the 'scree' title.



> *scree [skriË]*
> n
> (Earth Sciences / Geological Science) an accumulation of weathered rock fragments at the foot of a cliff or hillside, often forming a sloping heap Also called talus








The next 'scape using the same rocks will be a lot less 'harsh' - complete contrast to this actually.


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## JEK

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

Looking forward to see it with other plants. Will you switch to soil instead or sand?
 As i understood it. you won't change the positioning of the rocks. Am i right?


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> Looking forward to see it with other plants. Will you switch to soil instead or sand?
> As i understood it. you won't change the positioning of the rocks. Am i right?


Hi Johan,

I'm keeping the sand and the rocks exactly as they are.

I'll try to get a photo soon.


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## JEK

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> JEK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to see it with other plants. Will you switch to soil instead or sand?
> As i understood it. you won't change the positioning of the rocks. Am i right?
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Johan,
> 
> I'm keeping the sand and the rocks exactly as they are.
> 
> I'll try to get a photo soon.
Click to expand...


Looking much forward to that. And I'm sorry about asking a question thats already answered. (Just discovered that i missed almost a page of the thread.)


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> Looking much forward to that. And I'm sorry about asking a question thats already answered. (Just discovered that i missed almost a page of the thread.)


No problem!


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## George Farmer

*Re: [IWAGUMI] Project Scree - Final shots*

New plants.  New lights...


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## nayr88

Blimey! You don't hang about George haha

Looks good, I really like the idea of keeping the rock layout and just changing the plants. A recycled layout  I can see those lights getting quite big in the scene over the next year, I was wondering if I'd see an  ada MH when I read new lights haha 

Will there be a new name or separate journal?


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## Vito

I didnt think this scpae could improve, I was wrong, the new plants look great from that pic. I am tempted to purch someTMC LED tiles but im torn between them and the ADA Solar I...


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## B7fec

Looks good George, gives the tank and rock layout a completely new look, what's the plant list? And what's the reason for the change of lights?


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## Mark Evans

SEXY!


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## George Farmer

nayr88 said:
			
		

> Blimey! You don't hang about George haha
> 
> Looks good, I really like the idea of keeping the rock layout and just changing the plants. A recycled layout  I can see those lights getting quite big in the scene over the next year, I was wondering if I'd see an  ada MH when I read new lights haha
> 
> Will there be a new name or separate journal?


Thanks, Ryan.  

I've always wanted to try suspended lighting and it's great. Easier to maintain the tank and it gives a cleaner look, especially with the OptiWhite tank and glassware.

I do like the look of the ADA MH but for a similar price you can get these.  I actually prefer the look of these units and they have lots of other advantages - less power consumption, more efficient, waterproof, run much cooler, no mercury etc.  

Here's more info - http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/data/grobeam1000-tech.pdf

I'm a bit of a gadget freak and the lighting controllers are awesome, and easy to use.

They have a built-in battery so the timers don't need adjusting after a power cut.

You can control the light intensity from 0-100% in 1% increments.  You can ramp up/down the intensity to your desire.

For instance I have an 8hr photoperiod, ramping up gradually  to full power after 3hrs, 2hrs at full, then ramping down for 3hrs to 1% intensity for moonlight mode.  How cool is that?!

There's even a 'storm' function that flashes like lightning!  You could have a powerhead come on at the same time to create a full-on effect.



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> I didnt think this scpae could improve, I was wrong, the new plants look great from that pic. I am tempted to purch someTMC LED tiles but im torn between them and the ADA Solar I...


Thanks!  The 'scape has a long way to go yet, but I'm hopeful it will turn out well.

The ADA Solar I is a lovely piece of hardware too.  I would read up on both before making your choice.  Maybe contact Andyh or Dan Crawford, as they own the ADA Solar I already, and Dan has experience of these TMC GroBeam's too, so can be more objective than me.



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> Looks good George, gives the tank and rock layout a completely new look, what's the plant list? And what's the reason for the change of lights?


Thanks, Ben!

Plants are a mixture of crypts, Rotala green, needle fern and hairgrass.  I have some E. tenellus on its way from Mark to mix in with the hairgrass.  All the plants are either donated by UKAPS members or re-used from old set-ups.

Why change the lights?  As above really.  Easier for maintenance, greener, look cool and have funky controls!



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> SEXY!


Thanks mate, I know I am.


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## Garuf

Looks great, George! 
How are you finding those luminaires? Would one not be enough? I'd been eyeing my savings thinking about getting one for my 60x45x45. 

The new plants really add something too, the multiple layers of colour and texture add so much more to the scape.


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## Mark Evans

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Thanks mate, I know I am.



it's them pants you wear.


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## George Farmer

Garuf said:
			
		

> Looks great, George!
> How are you finding those luminaires? Would one not be enough? I'd been eyeing my savings thinking about getting one for my 60x45x45.
> 
> The new plants really add something too, the multiple layers of colour and texture add so much more to the scape.


Thanks, Gareth. 

One would probably be enough, but I"m future proofing for when I likely upgrade to another 80 or 90cm.  Two look better when suspending from the ceiling too.



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mate, I know I am.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's them pants you wear.
Click to expand...

Definitely.


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## George Farmer

I've created a new journal following on from this.  Please check it out and ask questions/leave comments here -

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14467


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## GreenNeedle

Took several hours with several breaks but I've just read all the way through this.  Really inspiring scape and journal.  I can envisage that with my new scape no matter how much I try to make it look different the influence of this one resonate through.  Without the genius' artistic eye of course.  Mine probably actually will look like a pile of rocks.......that someone put there where yours looks like they were always there 

Gonna have to start reading more journals.  Some inspiring stuff I've missed out on over the past couple of years.

AC


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## George Farmer

I'm nicely surprised to see this scape rank 13th in the Russian Open Aquatic Plant Layout contest. 

Not sure if this link will work but hopefully it's the top 25. 

2nd place is my favourite scape of 2012.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 225&type=1


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## ghostsword

One of the best iwagumi's I have seen ...


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## Ady34

Great news George, its such a visually striking scape....when you look at that page of the top 25 yours stands out a mile!
Its funny as the winning scape was the one i picked as my fave for iaplc this year.
Second place was the one i was umming and ahhing about to put in my top 3 choices....i didnt in the end but it as a great scape with great perspective.
Hope all is well.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Ian Holdich

always loved this scape George, in fact it is my fave of yours. It has finally got recognition in the comp circuit. I have always wondered why you didn't enter this for the IAPLC, when you entered the Evolution of this tank?. It has been nice to read the journal again as well.

well done mate!


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## O'Neil

Such a simple scape, but I absolutely love it.


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## foxfish

No 20 is unusual, a bit of magic?


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## LondonDragon

ghostsword said:
			
		

> One of the best iwagumi's I have seen ...


Agreed, glad George brought it down to London too so we could see it live


----------



## O'Neil

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the best iwagumi's I have seen ...
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, glad George brought it down to London too so we could see it live
Click to expand...

It really is stunning, wish I'd thought of it, lol


----------



## fandango

Congratulations! Well deserved!


----------



## ghostsword

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the best iwagumi's I have seen ...
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, glad George brought it down to London too so we could see it live
Click to expand...



We were really lucky to have seen it.

It was this scape that absolutely changed my perception of what an iwagumi is. I have not seen any picture that does justice to the scape. 

One to copy for sure.  


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## plantbrain

Rotala "green would behave well in this tank also. 

A nice creeper.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys.


----------



## Simon jones

Snowdonia is my neck of the woods! You've certainly captured the spirit of the place. Amazing!


----------



## Caner

Hello George,
Did you use only TPN+ and excel ? What about NPK? I read all of pages but i didn't see or i missed. If you used Npk could you write dosage?


----------



## ADA

TPN+ contains N&P


----------



## Konrad Michalski

Fantastic tank. Where did you get your light gravel (sand) from if you don't mind me asking? Cheers.


----------

