# Mixing nutrients together



## H.. (15 Oct 2015)

I wonder if it is a bad idea to mix all the nutrients together in a one bottle solution?

I got myself an empty dosing pump, and want to make an mix of PMDD´s. 
 What i got is: micros, KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, MgSO4.

Id like to make an solution so I can dose easily every day or at least three days a week.

So, can I mix all together or do I have to separate some ingredients?

H.


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## ian_m (15 Oct 2015)

Nope you can't mix the micro with the macros.

You must really dose as two separate solutions on alternate days as EI states. The chelated iron (in micro) will react with the KH2PO4 and precipitate out as insoluble iron phosphate and become unavailable to the plants. This is the reason for alternate dosing of EI solutions.

However on saying that, you can mix your own single solution by keeping it acidic (ascorbic acid) which keeps the iron chelated and therefore doesn't react with the KH2PO4. Also have to add preservative (potassium sorbate) as the single solution is prone to going mouldy.

Read about it here.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

Some people swear it is just as good, others not. Some people find there single solution continually goes mouldy, others not. Of course the iron can still precipitate out with the single solution once it gets in the tank.

All the original research was done with alternate dosing.


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## Yo-han (15 Oct 2015)

Do a quick search on this forum or any forum and you'll find 100 threads saying PO4 and Fe can't be mixed. Search a little further and you'll see Tropica makes an all in one fert


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## GHNelson (15 Oct 2015)

I have made up all in one fertilzer for a while now using Distilled  or RO water using the Tropica recipe!
There doesn't seem to be as much mould or cloudiness. with this recipe......although I try and keep it out of direct light!
The solution colour is green not rusty brown!
I guess the Iron hasn't reacted with the Phosphate! 
I haven't noticed any precipitation when adding it to the aquarium either!
Cheers 
hoggie


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## dw1305 (15 Oct 2015)

Hi all, 





hogan53 said:


> The solution colour is green not rusty brown!


 It is a pH effect, it sounds like it is fairly acidic, that would keep the iron as ferric (Fe++) and the phosphorus (PO4---) in solution.

You could use ascorbic acid "vitamin C" (C6H6O6) or citric acid (C6H8O7), both are easily obtainable or even at a pinch clear "distilled spirit vinegar" (CH3COOH + water).

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (15 Oct 2015)

Hi Darrel 
The Tropica recipe includes Pottasium Sorbate and Ascorbic acid!
Cheers 
hoggie


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## ian_m (15 Oct 2015)

Quite a few people have decided to roll their own single solution recipes, but for some reason decided they don't need ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate and suffered both mould and brown precipitate.


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## GHNelson (15 Oct 2015)

...Using tap water Ph 7 plus will not help the cause if they dont use those two        mentioned ingredients!......In the last post!
Cheers
hoggie


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## H.. (18 Oct 2015)

Thanks. that was some good reading in the article about all in one sollution. I will do some testings with the TPN+3 formula that will give me:

5.9ppm NO3
0.31ppm PO4
3.9ppm K
0.39ppm Mg

the formula:
DIY TPN+ (3)
48g Potassium Nitrate
2.2g Monopotassium Phosphate
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
5g EDTA Chelated Trace Elements Mix (TNC Trace, CSM+B)
500ml distilled water

Not sure of where i can get the "patassium sorbate". And the amounts in the formula are so very small somethimes that it wont be possible to measure them by grams for me.

I guess the difficulty or the danger is all about if it moulds over time, and the Fe anf P does not react.

H.


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## ian_m (18 Oct 2015)

You must have the potassium sorbate (see Ebay for small amounts) or else soluion will quickly go mouldy, the will pH rise (due to loss of ascorbic acid) and iron precipitate out, thus completely wasting all your effort of having a single solution.

Or you could just dose alternate days macro & micro and not have to worry about ingredients reacting, like most people do.


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## H.. (18 Oct 2015)

ian_m said:


> You must have the potassium sorbate (see Ebay for small amounts) or else soluion will quickly go mouldy, the will pH rise (due to loss of ascorbic acid) and iron precipitate out, thus completely wasting all your effort of having a single solution.
> 
> Or you could just dose alternate days macro & micro and not have to worry about ingredients reacting, like most people do.



Yeah, maybe I should try making the mix without Fe at first, untill I get to order the P.sorbate.

H.


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## H.. (18 Oct 2015)

Just noticed that the formula say EDTA chelated Fe, and what i got is Fe 6,0% (DTPA) 

I really dont know what the difference is and what the letters stands for (thow I know what an chelator does)

H.


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## Manuel Arias (18 Oct 2015)

Hi H..

There is a difference between the different chelates. EDTA and DTPA are references to different chelating molecules, which are stable at different pHs, and you truly want them to be stable, as that is what prevents the iron of getting oxidized and moving from Fe2+ to Fe3+, as the second one is not available for plants. You can see the differences here, for different iron chelates, and also differen EDTA chelates (with other metals):

https://www.akzonobel.com/micronutr...bel_fig1_fig_2_origina_500lpx_tcm47-91935.jpg

As you can see, depending on the molecule and the pH of the tank, each chelate has different range of stability, but for iron, EDTA goes fine between pH 1.5 to 6.5 and DTPA goes fine between 1.5 and 7.5. From the forms indicated there, however, the best is EDDHA (pH from 3 to 10, much better for aquariums) but is noticeably more expensive, reason why most brands they do not use it and go for the cheaper EDTA. However, as you can see, a a pH of 7 you can face problems with the iron, so some brands are adding also DTPA which still is cheap but keeps stable up to 7.5, and in planted aquariums with CO2 injection is easy to get lower pHs. This, however, it is also interesting, as can also explain why people face some imbalances in the tank when using chelates and having high pHs during the first stages of the tank...

Hope this help!

Cheers,


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## H.. (19 Oct 2015)

Thanks Manuel, thats usefull info. great.

H.


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