# What filter would I need for the Aquascaper 900 tank?



## Wulfen (26 Jul 2018)

Hi all.
What filter is recommended for the Aquscaper 900 tank?
AS900 - 900mm (l) x 500mm (w) x 450mm (h) 186 litres
https://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/evolution-aqua-the-aquascaper-900-tank-1994-p.asp


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## leedsrhinojohn (27 Jul 2018)

Cant go wrong with either Fluval fx6 or eheim professional 600,
I run both filters on all my tanks and never had any issues and both run virtually silent, its all about personal opinion regarding filters as im sure others will recommend JBL or Oase among others and no doubt are just as good as eheim and fluval.
Just remember I would go for at least double the flow rate you need as stated flow rates are not exactly accurate once filled with media, if you want for example 200 gph flow then go with a filter that states 400gph.


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## ian_m (27 Jul 2018)

If you are going "high tech" (CO2 and/or liquid carbon) and high lights you are looking for a filter flow rate (as stated on box) of x10 the tank volume. So for your tank of about 190litres you are looking for minimum of 1900litres/hour. The x10 rule is what manufacturer states "on the box" and takes into account in practice, with filter media in the filter, that the flow rate may be only one 1/2 the "on the box" value.

So you are looking at either two smaller filters eg JBL1500 or just one JBL1900. Main issue with some of the bigger filters eg JBL1900, FX6 is the pipework is not 16/22mm (JBL is 19/25mm, FX6 is 25mm) thus standard fittings things like 16/22 inline CO2 diffuser won't fit without some fancy plumbing work.

Look at Zeus's journal for how he fitted 16/22mm diffusers into FX6 25mm pipe work.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/olympus-is-calling.43046/

The advantage of two smaller filters is redundancy, easier to work with 16/22mm pipework, might be easier to clean/maintain but have to think carefully how you inject CO2.

Here is your tank using two JBL900's, for instance (JBL900 are 12/16mm piping).




Other thing to be careful of some "cheaper" filters use quite a lot more electricity to do the same flow rate as more expensive brand filters.

Eg JBLe1502 is 20W for 1400l/hr/. For electricity at 17p per unit works our 0.17 x 20/1000 x 24 x 365 -> £29.80 per year to run. JBLe1502 is about £150.

A AllPondSolutions equivalent filter is 35W. So 0.17 x 35/1000 x 24 x 365 -> £52.12 a year to run, thus £20 a year more expensive to run, but at only £60, the JBL will have a payback time of 4.5years. (also got strange completely non standard 20/15mm piping).

My JBLe1501 (older 23W power model) is over 6 years old and works fine.


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## Zeus. (27 Jul 2018)

ian_m said:


> If you are going "high tech" (CO2 and/or liquid carbon) and high lights you are looking for a filter flow rate (as stated on box) of x10 the tank volume. So for your tank of about 190litres you are looking for minimum of 1900litres/hour. The x10 rule is what manufacturer states "on the box" and takes into account in practice, with filter media in the filter, that the flow rate may be only one 1/2 the "on the box" value.
> 
> So you are looking at either two smaller filters eg JBL1500 or just one JBL1900. Main issue with some of the bigger filters eg JBL1900, FX6 is the pipework is not 16/22mm (JBL is 19/25mm, FX6 is 25mm) thus standard fittings things like 16/22 inline CO2 diffuser won't fit without some fancy plumbing work.
> 
> ...



+1


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## Zeus. (27 Jul 2018)

Or get one filter plus a pump and run it as an independent line with in take and outlet.
That's what I did on my 500l, FX6 plus ehiem 3000+


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## Wulfen (7 Aug 2018)

leedsrhinojohn said:


> Cant go wrong with either Fluval fx6 or eheim professional 600,
> I run both filters on all my tanks and never had any issues and both run virtually silent, its all about personal opinion regarding filters as im sure others will recommend JBL or Oase among others and no doubt are just as good as eheim and fluval.
> Just remember I would go for at least double the flow rate you need as stated flow rates are not exactly accurate once filled with media, if you want for example 200 gph flow then go with a filter that states 400gph.


Many thanks for the info 
I like the idea of maintaining the 16/22mm pipework dimensions of the Eheim professional 600 but I believe it only has a turnover of around 1250 l/h.
It seems my options would be the JBL CrystalProfi e1902 Greenline (1900l/h) or the Fluval FX6 (2130lh). Shame about the pipe dimensions but for the 10x turnover it seems I'm limited to these 2 models.
Is there 2 models of the FX6? Or am I confusing it with the FX4?
Of the JBL and Fluval does anyone have a preference or experience for either of these models and which would you choose?
Cheers


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## leedsrhinojohn (7 Aug 2018)

The FX4 is a smaller version of the FX6
Never used JBL so cant comment on it but I use the FX6 and its a great filter, I use 3 in total on different tanks and never had an issue at all with any of them.


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## alto (7 Aug 2018)

I’d just go with the filter system that Aquarium Gardens & George Farmer have used successfully on many EA 900’s


If you want to increase flow rates, then I suspect 2 well placed smaller filters with a combined 10x turnover would provide better flow with fewer “dead spots”
- take a look at Mark Evan (outstanding) journals 120 x 55 x 55 for filter details


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## Wulfen (7 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> I’d just go with the filter system that Aquarium Gardens & George Farmer have used successfully on many EA 900’s
> 
> 
> If you want to increase flow rates, then I suspect 2 well placed smaller filters with a combined 10x turnover would provide better flow with fewer “dead spots”
> - take a look at Mark Evan (outstanding) journals 120 x 55 x 55 for filter details


Cheers alto.
The Oase 600 has a max turnover of just 1250l/h this would probably be even less with added filter media. 
It may be ok if you understock and just want a few fish as added movement etc but is way below the x10l/h that seems the universally accepted norm.
What if I wanted to add more fish in the future or decided I wanted to try my hand at Discus or some other route that needs higher filtration?
I would much prefer to err on the side of caution and save myself a lot of anxiety and further cost.


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## Wulfen (7 Aug 2018)

leedsrhinojohn said:


> The FX4 is a smaller version of the FX6
> Never used JBL so cant comment on it but I use the FX6 and its a great filter, I use 3 in total on different tanks and never had an issue at all with any of them.


Cheers rhino.
I think the FX6 is what ill go for. It will allow much more flexibility in the future.


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## alto (7 Aug 2018)

Discus don’t much like high flow  all those breeders use sponge filters for a reason 
They do like very “clean” water, so tend to be easier keepers in frequent water change systems, they are also big fish that need a crowd to really thrive (& tend to be much happier without the neon horde  ... unless the tank is 180 x 60 x 60 in which case, plenty of space for both)

I have a 90cm x 45cm x 55cm densely planted tank, moderate hardscape volume (40kg seiryu type stone, couple long branchy ‘amazon’ wood), 2 x A160 Kessil, Eheim Pro 4 350 (1050l/h ) occasional Eheim skimmer (would love the EA glass system but I’m a dedicated glass breaker ), moderate CO2 (to match the moderate lighting)

Livestock (is this low or moderate or high ... I’ve no idea, but they seem to manage, all are species that prefer larger groups for long term success)
S vaillanti 25
M kubotai 20-25
S axelrodi ‘blue’ (& ‘green’) - these are now identified as distinct species - 20-25
Shrimp 40
Few misc Otos, goby 

Monte Carlo carpet as I hate trimming
E a ‘mini’
Little moss on wood (see above)
Rotala ‘green’
H verticillata
C helferi
H micrathemoides
B australis 
R inundatus 
R ‘Vietnam H’ra’ - moved as “not green” 

Minimal algae despite my horrendous (lack) flow  BUT what flow there is, moves through the tank with only a couple “dead spots” 

If you look at Tropica Inspiration Layouts, there are plenty of tanks with much less than 10x turnover filter rates, same goes for Filipe Oliveira tanks, Green Aqua display tanks ... it’s about GOOD flow not HIGH flow 




Wulfen said:


> universally accepted norm.


Fortunately neither my plants nor fish can read 

Of the fish I keep, M kubotai would likely manage that sort of flow, the S vaillanti would not, S axelrodi are also from slower waters 
I can’t see any reason why I would want to run my tank with 2200litres/hour flow rate ... many aquarium plants are also from low flow waters


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## ceg4048 (8 Aug 2018)

Wulfen said:


> I think the FX6 is what ill go for. It will allow much more flexibility in the future.


Despite the protestations of some, I agree that you should get the biggest baddest filter you can afford. If that means you mount a Formula 1 engine in a Toyota Prius, then so be it. You can always easily reduce the flow rate if need be. You certainly need to distribute the flow well but there is never a fault with having more flow than you need.

People are quick to bash the 10X rule because Mr. So and So  uses low flow and his tanks are fine. The problem is; Wulfen is not Mr. So and So. When you gain the experience that George Farmer and Mark Evans then you will be able to get away with low flow because you will understand all the nuances.

For the record, it's important to clarify the philosophy and history of George Farmer's and Mark Evans with respect to their experience regarding flow.

Here are a few posts and quotes from George Farmer;
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/rio-nanay-fish.17747/page-2#post-213524


> We often talk about a 10x guideline for [CO2 enriched] planted tanks. This is to minimise dead spots that can result in algae. It's also to ensure that sufficient CO2/nutrients are delivered effectively throughout the water column.
> 
> Folk succeed with far less and far more, but 10x is a good rule of thumb. So a 240 litre aquarium has 2400lph claimed flow rate from the filter manufacturers.
> 
> ...



https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/filter-advice-from-shop-is-it-correct.16223/#post-168659


> I realise the 10x 'rule' is commonplace - it's a nice round figure for planted tank beginners that will likely have more lighting and spend less time maintaining, so it's a good starting point.


https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/flow-rates-for-dummies.11781/#post-124660


> The 10x guideline assumes you have a regular external filter that do not produce their max flow rate.
> 
> So you have a 120 litre tank and filter it with a 1200lph external filter. In reality you're only get around 600lph perhaps. So in reality your getting 5x.
> Powerheads produce much nearer their claimed flow rate, so you can take this into account when working out what filter/powerhead combo you require.
> ...



https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads...-with-circulation-and-flow.11056/#post-117526


> I first discussed it in a 2006 PFK article, I think. I wondered if anyone else would remember!



Here are some quotes from Mark Evans, who produced some amazing scapes and whose skill as a photographer is beyond reproach:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/dont-give-up-hope-a-6-month-window.15772/


> With a lot of help from the UKAPS forums, there's all the answers people need.
> Great guys to get help and feedback from, i for sure wouldn't be doing what i'm doing if it wasn't for many folk on here.


Yes, that's right. In early 2007 Mark Evans did not have a clue but we gave him exactly the same advice as we are giving Wulfen and everyone else.
We do not advocate "other ways" used by Mr. So and So on a You Tube video. Does that seem autocratic? "My way or the Highway" kind of approach?
Yes it does, because we know that our way works just like it did for Mark Evans. So if someone chooses the route of Mr. So and So, and if things go wrong, well, the hobbyist will have to contact Mr. So and So. for advice. We know this way, and we know it quite well. So we will advocate this way every time.

Here is another Mark Evans tidbit:
Explaining the finer points of low flow versus high flow in this thread https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/would-i-be-right-in-saying.13986/

Another stunning tank produce by Mark, using...wait for it....
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/saintlys-240l-savannah-dreaming-scape-finished.9937/page-14


> i'm using a number 2 rated @ 2300L/PH
> and a number 3 rated @ 3200 L/PH
> 
> and an eheim rated @ 1500 L/PH
> ...



So please, people, can protestors get over the fact that we at UKAPS collectively choose to advocate high flow, and that high flow is more forgiving and is more conducive to GOOD flow?
Also, Is it possible to attempt a method seen on a You Tube video and then to fail at it?
The method is not usually the problem, the hobbyist's execution of the method is usually the problem.
So because we are familiar with our method it is much easier for us to troubleshoot problems if the member is using our method.
We do not deny that other methods work, we are however, convinced that the surest path is to use high flow and to use moderate light and to use large water changes while dosing nutrition eutrophically. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of threads here (if protestors would only search objectively) demonstrating that high flow can equate to GOOD flow more easily than can low flow, and that tanks improve dramatically when focus is given to flow/distribution.

Here is an example of my favorite poster child for using our way and not the highway: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/having-another-bash.11779/
we really had to bully this member in order for him to get going and to do things our way. Beginners really need to study that thread because it illustrate in no uncertain terms that our way works. Were folks upset that the OP was bullied into submission? Yes, most certainly, but I don't care. What I care about is that troubleshooting and adherence to Barr's principles were advocated and followed.

Hope this clarifies and hope protestors will curtail their harassment of our methods based on the above clarification.

Cheers,


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## alto (8 Aug 2018)

ceg4048 said:


> hope protestors will curtail their harassment of our methods based on the above clarification.


Are you seriously calling me out for discussing my tank details   

Accusing me of 





> harassment


Or did I miss several now deleted posts 

Perhaps you could provide details of your own current tanks? 

On a more serious note, I have always considered diversity to be the strength of forums - there are many ways to keep a successful aquarium, planted or not ...


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## Wulfen (8 Aug 2018)

I really don't want to get into some sort of argument here. 
My thoughts on a bigger l/h filter where along the same lines as ceg40488. In that, I can always reduce and control flow if needed, and it will also allow me more scope for the future and avoid the cost (which I can ill afford at the moment) of a second filter.


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## Siege (8 Aug 2018)

Haha! Not your fault and no need for concern, just opened an ancient debate.

Clive is right the 10 x rule of thumb and absolutely works.
Like others have said the turnover can be combined with filter and a powerhead eg Eheim skim.

Fluval fx6 is an excellent filter just bear in mind the large tubing so won’t fit standard 17mm glassware. Jbl one will.

I can promise you aquascaping will initially cause you stress and frustration because something will always be wrong. However you brain will overcome this and you’ll become very ‘zen’ and patient. It’s an odd process but it happens with a couple of months.

It’s a nice process!


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## alto (8 Aug 2018)

Sure we are all mature enough to able to agree to disagree?  

- at least I thought that a possibility 

You should definitely get the filter that appeals to you most 

Having seen the FX series in action on 120cm x 45cm x 45cm goldfish tanks I’m just a little underwhelmed by their performance; they seem far less resistant to backpressure than Eheims
I dumped my Fluval Canisters years back in favour of Eheim, then after a 5yr break, looked at all the next generation filters ... I wanted to be impressed by Fluval ... I’d seen George’s G6 & thought it looked fantastic, especially with the easy change prefilter ... except I could buy 2 Eheim Pro 350’s (and then some) for the local G6 price 

Regardless of *ceg4048* lengthy denouncement, I’m still of the opinion that 2 Oase 600’s or Eheim 350’s will outperform *ceg4048’s *preferred single bigger filter ... he provided no physics to the contrary that could possibly convince one not already on the boat

And his belittling attitude to someone as well respected - and NICE! - as Filipe Oliveira does his stance no service

I suppose he’s selectively forgetting George Farmer’s frequent use of the Oase Biomaster 600 on EA900 set ups ... or is Mr Farmer also falling under the label of



ceg4048 said:


> by Mr. So and So on a You Tube video


 

A significant reason the *10X rule* is seldom challenged in these discussions is the departure or silence of those that were similalry so denounced by the *real UKAPS members* 
- and it seems I’ve been thrown rather soundly OFF the Island 




ceg4048 said:


> Yes, most certainly, but I don't care.


As a Forum Moderater he _should_ care when members, new & established, depart in response to what is essentially online bullying
Even in my rather short tenure I’ve noticed the loss of a good number of previously active members (& received pm’s as to why they no longer feel welcome)
If one cannot convince while maintaining a respectful tone .....


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## Wulfen (8 Aug 2018)

Siege said:


> Haha! Not your fault and no need for concern, just opened an ancient debate.
> 
> Clive is right the 10 x rule of thumb and absolutely works.
> Like others have said the turnover can be combined with filter and a powerhead eg Eheim skim.
> ...


Many thanks, Siege. As a keen gardener, I have my ups and downs but it is a learning experience that I enjoy. I believe aquascaping will be a more significant challenge but again the acumilation of knowledge through the forum or other research along with the hands-on experience is very exciting.  
Edit:
Sorry Siege I forgot to ask.
The JBL CrystalProfi e1902 manufacturer webpage states a pipework size of 19/27.
That's what I initially was working too and did not realise I could get glassware that would fit. 
But if you read further down the page under Details its states 19/25. I only just noticed this.
Is there glassware such as lily pipes etc that will fit the 19/25 pipes?


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## Siege (8 Aug 2018)

Apologies I thought all Jbl filters were 16/22. There aren’t any glassware products that fit bigger sizes that I am aware of,

If you want to easily attach glassware this is what I did with the same tank - 

oase thermo 600, and remove most of the foams leaving just 1 foam plus the bio media. Changed the prefilter to the less fine 45ppm orange foams. No prob with reduced media if you plant heavily as plants will do most of the filtering.

Added a Eheim skim 350 to assist with the circular flow. 

The small adjustment to the media and addition of Eheim skim (or other small powerhead) will get you to the 10x rule without having the issue of the odd larger sized hosing,

Just wanted to make you aware of the issues with non standard size filter hosing.

Dave at AG maintains 10 tanks advises people all the time and really knows his stuff. people on the forum also have vast experience but you will always find the odd misunderstanding when things are written down.


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## Siege (8 Aug 2018)

*Sorry Orange prefilter are 30ppm.


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## tam (8 Aug 2018)

Forums are great for learning from other peoples mistakes/experience, but once you've listened to what they have to say don't be afraid to go with what you want. It's ok to try things and even to screw up and get it wrong. If someone says 'I told you so' then shame on them. Experiments and screwing up is how you gain experience and learn new things. It's how we collectively learn new things and move forward knowledge, by trying out different things not just copying exactly what the people before you did. I'm about to stick a HOB filter (1135l/h) on mine, maybe it will work, maybe it will be an algae farm, but I will enjoy the experience of figuring it out.



alto said:


> I have a 90cm x 45cm x 55cm densely planted tank, moderate hardscape volume (40kg seiryu type stone, couple long branchy ‘amazon’ wood), 2 x A160 Kessil, Eheim Pro 4 350 (1050l/h ) occasional Eheim skimmer (would love the EA glass system but I’m a dedicated glass breaker ), moderate CO2 (to match the moderate lighting)



Sorry off topic, but are there pictures of that somewhere? Sounds awesome.


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

Yes get the make your own mistakes thing. However if I suggested buying a £250 filter and no one mentioned that it wouldn’t fit my expensive glassware I’d be a bit p’d off.

To be fair it was mentioned a couple of times earlier on but I thought I’d reiterate it!


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

tam said:


> Sorry off topic, but are there pictures of that somewhere? Sounds awesome.



Thanks 
As for photos, occasionally I snap an iPhone pic but the reflections drive me crazy - as does the iPhone camera which struggles with color rendition ... I keep meaning to get my other camera repaired 

The biggest issue is that I’m not patient (motivated?) enough to bother   


And I look at the tank & see all its flaws 
- my tanks end up designed around my fish so the scape is nothing amazing


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

Be sure to look at Siege’s tanks - they are gorgeous!


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> Be sure to look at Siege’s tanks - they are gorgeous!



Wont do after I’ve taken my scissors to them today!


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## PAYN3Y (9 Aug 2018)

Just to chip in, I have an Aquascaper 900 with a Biomaster 600. I removed one of the blue sponges and threw some Purigen in there. Recently I added a Koralia Nano 1600 power-head.

Flow seems perfect with this setup so far.


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## Wulfen (9 Aug 2018)

Hi all.
I want to thank everyone for all the feedback. 
As I try to assimilate all this information I can see that thought the mountain is high, there is more than one path to the summit.
I have decided to explore each path on this journey and add a second Oase 600 Thermo filter to the system.
This will allow me to experiment with different flow rates and patterns until I find the sweet spot that works for me.
It also alleviates my concerns over the X10 question until I am confident in my own abilities to maintain the system at an optimal level.
If on this journey I eventually achieve a form Zen understanding and competence to run the system with the single filter I will then have a spare mature filter ready to add to another tank and explore a different biotope


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

Siege said:


> Wont do after I’ve taken my scissors to them today!




You just need to go way back to Takashi Amano (before he was Mr ADA) method of trimming - never more than 1/3 of the stems etc at any one time, staggered through the planting so that just shorn look is never seen 

Takes more time & practise (I suspect) but he showed photos of just trimmed tanks that still looked amazing - this article was posted online on Vectrapoint (along with other Nature Aquarium photo gallery & informational articles), which remained available as an archive until it suddenly disappeared


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

Wulfen said:


> add a second Oase 600 Thermo filter to the system.


I know, I know, I should just stop 
but unless the room is very cold, just the basic 600 will do (spend the saved £ on plants)
Confirm with Dave, but I believe every OASE Biomaster has the option to add a heater so you can easily do so later if needed


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## Wulfen (9 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> I know, I know, I should just stop
> but unless the room is very cold, just the basic 600 will do (spend the saved £ on plants)
> Confirm with Dave, but I believe every OASE Biomaster has the option to add a heater so you can easily do so later if needed


Order placed for the Thermo already 
Plus if the heater fails on one then I have an immediate backup


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

Bloody hell, you don’t do things by half do you? 

Sounds a good plan, I’ve seen people use 2 X oase biomaster thermo 350 on the AS900. 
2 X 600’s gives you loads of wiggle room, redundancy and you have a filter for a second tank in future.......!

I think you were right with the thermo version. If you can afford it the price difference isn’t very little and will give you a second heater in case of breakage etc. 

Ps. Yes every oase biomaster does have the option to add a heater in the future but doing so works out more expensive than buying the thermo version initially.

Pps. I’ll post a pic of my 900 in a min. Only been planted 2 weeks so not looking great at the moment.....


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

Pic attached.


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

Inspired by FO?


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## Wulfen (9 Aug 2018)

Siege said:


> Bloody hell, you don’t do things by half do you?
> 
> Sounds a good plan, I’ve seen people use 2 X oase biomaster thermo 350 on the AS900.
> 2 X 600’s gives you loads of wiggle room, redundancy and you have a filter for a second tank in future.......!
> ...


Cheers Siege.
I tried to absorb all the info posted plus many other articles I have read over the last few days. It was a bit of a stretch on the finances but I wanted to cover as many angles as possible and provide for an additional tank in the future. 
I also took into account pipework size and the readily available supply of glassware etc for the 16/22 pipe diameter.
I'm settled now and can move on to thinking about the scape and plants. I am currently soaking all the Riverwood and as soon as it has lost its buoyancy I can get cracking on putting everything together. 
BTW.. The Aquascaper 900 tank arrived today. Really pleased with its build quality and clarity


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## Wulfen (9 Aug 2018)

Siege said:


> Pic attached.


Very nice mate  Do I spy one of those twinstar gadgets in there?


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> Inspired by FO?



Sort of, I like to think the cheeky git read my mind though....! 

I had the plan in my mind and bought my hardscape a month before he did the tank at AG. I was going to use the mountain of fossilised wood stone I have in the garage though. Saw his use of grey mountain rock/elephant skin stone, liked it so changed to that.

Nicked a couple of his planting ideas I must confess.......!

I only got to see the odd bit and bob of the workshop, but must say really loved the guy and his skill is out of this world.


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

Wulfen said:


> Very nice mate  Do I spy one of those twinstar gadgets in there?



Yes I’ve got one in this tank and also in my 600. Unsure of the science but they look bloody cool and the added oxygen can only be good in my mind!


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

I bet he did 

Though I think it was actually Dave that got things going - maybe you talked while you were working  - I believe FO mentions that Dave requested 
triangular
stone (specific)
wood (specific)





Siege said:


> must say really loved the guy and his skill is out of this world.


my feelings exactly

I was expecting him to say he’d been Aquascaping alll his life, but he started around 10 years ago for stress relief 
 (he owned?/managed an IT company)


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

re the Twinstar 
- should you accidentally forget to adjust your CO2 down, it will save fish lives!
   


Of course I took mine apart to clean a while back & have yet to reinstall 
Which may be a lucky coincidence as the local distributor is no longer carrying this & it will cost me excessive amounts of postage to obtain a new membrane 
I’ve a new 60P


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> Inspired by FO?





alto said:


> I bet he did
> 
> Though I think it was actually Dave that got things going - maybe you talked while you were working  - I believe FO mentions that Dave requested
> triangular
> ...



I know the triangular bit because we discussed it. Didnt know about the choice of stone though.

I help Dave out a couple of days a week. Suits me at the mo, I learn from him and George whilst getting paid for it. Better than what I normally do! Money not as good though!


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

alto said:


> I’ve a new 60P




Cool re tank, From green aqua closing down sale?


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## alto (9 Aug 2018)

Wish!
But I’m over the Sea in a Land Far Far Away


And that better be the TGM close down sale
NOT green Aqua!


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## Siege (9 Aug 2018)

Ooh sorry, yes, the green machine. Shame about losing ADA in the uk but not about TGM given their customer service attitude.

I’d like to visit green aqua one day...


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## soggybongo (13 Nov 2018)

Yep no wonder that they are closing down.
Just got refund from them as failed delivery. Disgusting attitude.


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