# "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA



## JohnC (23 Mar 2011)

*Quick Index*
Filled and planted 2 weeks.
2.5 month update.
3.5 month update.
8 month update.



Hello and welcome to my new journal.

And yes, believe it or not this is my first "Normal" shaped planted tank. I am aiming to run this for a couple of months along side the corner then break the corner down.

The tank is a Rio 180 which i inherited from my sister whom had been using it for keeping bearded dragons. After *ALOT* of cleaning and rubbing off old tape i got it to a state where i would actually keep fish in it. 






The tank was actually the beech model but its going into my period themed flat so I spent a bit of time with Ronseal "Paint and Grain" making it a deep mahogany wood effect instead. I'm quite happy with the results and would recommend it to anyone struggling with horrible laminate facings in the wrong colours.... 





The Base unit is a bust up victorian sideboard which I picked up in an auction for £30. I've treated the woodworm  8) and cut holes in the back for the pipework. The real wood top and sides are quite thick and i've added extra support to the base to compensate for worm damage. I've not tested the tank or base yet with a fill but if there are any issues with the cupboard i'll add extra support.

I've bought in a couple of EX 1200 filters to nail the flow problem on the head from the start of this tank. I am aiming to run the reactor off one and the hydor heater off the other. I do have spraybars which i was planning on using for the outflows but i'm not final on this yet. You can see in the photo a large ream of tubing i found from a bike supply merchant. It's 16/22 and cost less then £1 a meter. I got tons spare just because it was so cheap. 

Layout wise I'm aiming for a combination of dragon stone and redmoor. I'm going to aim to have a built up terrace area on one side where the majority of the planting will be. The redmoor will arc over and down into a sand substrate in the other side of the tank. I'll do some test layouts later next week for general feedback.

I have some tropica plant substrate and alot of inert gravel and sand for the substrate. Although depending on how much of it is planted I could use the rest of the Flora Base I have kicking about here instead. But i'm a little too uprooting and replanting happy to be really very comfortable with the soft clay granule substrates yet...

Plants wise I'll use alot of the stuff from my corner, with HC cascading down from the terrace between the stones onto the sand below. I also wanted to add some stems for the first time in a while to fill out the planted area. Possibly the Rotata green, red combo that looks so nice prunes into bushes. I think this would suit the scale.

More soon, I'm getting very excited about getting this finally up and running after so many months of planning.

Best Regards,
John


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## spyder (23 Mar 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

Some nice looking wood there. Subscribed.


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## JohnC (30 Mar 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

Hi,

I was clearing out my camera and found this photo from Xmas. It show the difference in colour before I painted the laminate.





Best Regards,
John


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## Anonymous (30 Mar 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

nice wood i also like the coulor change on the wood of the tank makes a big diferance


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## JohnC (30 Mar 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*



			
				Corki said:
			
		

> Nice wood. Have you treated it with something because it looks shiny in the photo? Nothing like good ol Victorian engineering to hold the weight of a tank



the new paint has a coat of polyurethane varnish. the colour is alot closer to the base than the photo shops. my camera is playing silly buggers with colours at the moment.


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## JohnC (30 Mar 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

nah, that's just redmoor wood from various shops.


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## JohnC (16 Sep 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

Stunned by how long this set up is taking me 

I have everything in place now and am finding a bit more time in between the endless renovation.

Currently installing the DIY pipework.

Here is a rough diagram of what I am doing. 





I found a bunch of 21.5 push-fit pipe fittings in B&Q which I am using to make the dual "cross-fire" spraybar filter system. Thus running one filter with the hydor and one with the CO2 reactor so I don't end up with the weedy flow issue I had with the same stuff running on one 405 in my corner. This will hopefully also allow me to avoid using additional pumps in the tank. 

About to start assembling now.





Best Regards,
John


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## niru (16 Sep 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

Thats a nice one mate!! Love it!

Am more eager than you to see it progress (since I only have to see the snaps & read the descrip, not actually work on it  )... Keep going!

-niru


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## JohnC (16 Sep 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*

Finished intake outtake pipe work.


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## JohnC (16 Sep 2011)

*Pipework Done!*

Pipework is complete. 













Just need to glue it all together. Question on this. Silicon be enough? or glue (hot glue gun or super) + tape? All of the above? 

Going to find a drink and ponder the next step.

Best Regards,
John


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## Alastair (17 Sep 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 16th Sep - Pipework Done!*

Looking good. You have patience to do that. Just wondering though, are the two pieces of spray bar separated once in the tank. The flow isn't running the whole length from each filter is it?


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## JohnC (17 Sep 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 16th Sep - Pipework Done!*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Looking good. You have patience to do that. Just wondering though, are the two pieces of spray bar separated once in the tank. The flow isn't running the whole length from each filter is it?



Hi Alastair,

The two bits of spray bar are both terminated in the centre. I was considering making one with the inflows from both filters running into it but surmised that this would lead to reduced performance with the flow "butting" against each other. Worse still the weaker of the two might have been overcome by the other completely which would have been either my heater or CO2 reactor being ineffective.

Best Regards,
John


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## JohnC (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 16th Sep - Hardscape*

Hi,

Not got far in the last few months with this due to end less work commitments. But first musings about hardscape have started.





I've made a little tray to represent the footprint of the tank to save me scraping it to bits with all the rocks.

I'm aiming to do an over canopy of weeping moss on redmoor. Under this in the darker zone small crypts and nano anubias. You can't really see the empty area under the upper roots on the photo very well. I've got a nano variant of needle fern i'd like to incorporate somewhere plus a lot of fissidens to add. The area under the redmoor will have a flora base substrate in the planting zone. The open areas i'm aiming to keep inert sand and gravel.

Beyond that i'm scratching my head about weather to include some backing stems in the back right third since i've been enjoying stems again. Pruning them to arc  back from the upper branches to higher on the back glass if you know what I mean. Possibly rotala rotundifolia, green or red, i'm unsure about which.

The wood & rock layout are not final in any way before we get any "that stick should be 15cm to the left" chat  , so feel free to chip in. I'm going to bring the bulk of the hardscape more left to fill the empty space, but that would amplify the back right corner issue.

Plant suggestions and comments welcome.

Best Regards,
John


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## JohnC (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 7th Dec - Hardscape*

Addition - Height wise the current hardscape will be higher up in the tank then currently indicated. The top of the photo is roughly the height the tank is. I'm thinking i'll knock off the upper branches of the wood that point rouge directions to keep that downward "droopy" feel of the wood, which will be amplified by the weeping moss. This would allow the stem "crown" in that area to be better shaped.


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## Alastair (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 7th Dec - Hardscape*

Looks great mate. I'd leave the top branches on they look really good. When's it going in the tank lol


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## JohnC (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 7th Dec - Hardscape*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Looks great mate. I'd leave the top branches on they look really good. When's it going in the tank lol



Probably a couple of weeks. I have a good amount of plants in the corner and other tanks to use but will need to order stuff in on top of that. Plus some of the wood is still a bit buoyant.


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## chilled84 (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*



			
				hijac said:
			
		

> Finished intake outtake pipe work.



Flow may be hinderd on them 90 degree elbows?? Apart from that ace work.


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## JohnC (7 Dec 2011)

*Re: 100cm - Rio 180 - My first "Normal" tank!!!*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> hijac said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It wasn't but i'll confess i've switched out the white pipework for more standard tubing as I was finding it too tricky getting decent, strong, water tight joins. The straight forward solution of excessive amounts of clips and more tubing turned out easier in the long run.

I should take a video of the empty tank running. The whirl of the water is fantastic. Especially when I come from the nightmare circulation issues of the corner tank. This tank should have no problems on that front.  8)


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## JohnC (9 Dec 2011)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Update 7th Dec - Hardscape*

Current plant list plan...

*Foreish ground*

Glossostigma elatinoides
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides (or similar variety i can get my hands on)

*Inside the wood mass*

Microsorum pteropus (special nano needle version)
Anubias nana petite 
Various small crypts

*On the wood and some of the border rocks*

Vesicularia ferriei (weeping moss)
fissidens fontanus

*Angled up the diagonal to the back right*

rotala rotundifolia (& possibly rotala green)
Ludwigia arcuata

Leaving a sand strip along the front and a patch at the left.

Best Regards,
John


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## JohnC (15 Jan 2012)

*Re: New Hope - Rio 180 - Setting Up!*

Hello!,

Finally getting around to doing this. Plants are all in the corner currently. Substrate and main rockwork in. 

I'm going to leave the planting until tomorrow day so I get a good run at it.

Here are some photos.




Dividers in and me remembering to add a background so that the photos show up.  8) 




I've used a tight sock with the Molar clay from the bonsai place to bulk up the substrate mound. The substrate is a bag of  flora base I had laying around overcapped with Mayan Aquasoil. With Tropica plant substrate right at the very bottom (also as I had some laying around).




This is adding more Aquasoil. The sand is just plain sand from BnQ (fish safe). Although it will look dirtier in the future I feel it matches up to the dragon stone really well.




An idea of how the wood will pan out. I'm going to take it all out again now and continue soaking it overnight as I have to "moss it up" tomorrow anyway. I have additional small pieces of dragon stone that will be added once I have the final wood layout.

Questions, comments or critique happily taken,

Best Regards,
John


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## JohnC (15 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*

Addition, 

In the spirit of naming scapes I've decided that due to the similarity to a certain H.P Lovecraft story this scape shall be known as.

"In The Arms of Cthulhu"

 

Best Regards,
John


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## Bufo Bill (16 Jan 2012)

Excellent name. I totally agree with your sentiments there. I wonder if I could do a horror themed Vivarium for my pet toad ( for non-Lovecraftians, Toads and weird landscapes feature heavily in his work ).

On a more aquarium-based note I am digging this 'scape. Can't wait to see it set up and running, the wood is quite beautiful.
All the best from Bill.


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## JohnC (17 Jan 2012)

*Re:*



			
				Bufo Bill said:
			
		

> Excellent name. I totally agree with your sentiments there. I wonder if I could do a horror themed Vivarium for my pet toad ( for non-Lovecraftians, Toads and weird landscapes feature heavily in his work ).
> 
> On a more aquarium-based note I am digging this 'scape. Can't wait to see it set up and running, the wood is quite beautiful.
> All the best from Bill.



Thanks man, i'm just loving the "normality" of a rectangular tank in contrast to the corner.

Some planting in progress pics.





Scaper at work. Beginning to hate moss.




Most of the way through the wood.

More to follow.

Best Regards,
John


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## Ian Holdich (17 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*

it's great having a 'normal' tank isn't it!

looking good John!


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## JohnC (18 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> it's great having a 'normal' tank isn't it!
> 
> looking good John!



My god yes. Even taking photos is a whole lot easier.

Planting done. 

2.12 am

Water in and filters & heater turned on.





Other then some wood that is being a little too buoyant things are going ok.

I've got a bit of tidying to do tomorrow and some extra stones and moss to deploy but overall chuffed with how it has gone.

May have an issue with water movement when it comes to livestock thou. 

I may have *TOO MUCH* circulation.  8) 

Chat more tomorrow about solutions.

Best Regards,
John


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## hinch (18 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*

i really like that setup especially the way the wood branches down its cool


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## sarahtermite (18 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*

It's wonderful - and the branches remind me of tentacles (in a good way!)


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## JohnC (18 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> i really like that setup especially the way the wood branches down its cool



Why thank you. My favourite moss for along time has been Weeping. This scape is meant to show it off really. Hopefully it will come off that way.



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> It's wonderful - and the branches remind me of tentacles (in a good way!)



  Thanks! During set I was contemplating switching the branches to the other way around and doing "Cthulhu Sleeps".

Best Regards,
John


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## awtong (18 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 15th Dec - Setting Up!*

Love the hardscape it works very well together.

Andy


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## JohnC (31 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Love the hardscape it works very well together.
> 
> Andy



Thanks, i'm happy with the choices, although I will not pick such a plain "cosmetic" sand in the future as I foresee it looking a little too white to look natural in the finished scape.

So update.

Things are pottering along nicely. I switched out the Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides for sp. Japan as it was closer to the scale  I am aiming for. The rotala rotundifolia is loving it and already hit the surface so has had a nice chop to start it bushing out. The Ludwigia arcuata, however, is not loving it and melted back badly. It is just sprouting again and should be happy in a couple of weeks. This is the area to the back right of the "maw of Cthulhu" 8) .

Quick update photo. You are not getting anything closer for now as it is all a bit diatom happy and I've only just added some amano's. Additionally my wider angle, zoom lens is off getting repaired.




30th Jan 2012

I'm working on the flow issue. The plants were being rocked around a fair bit so as I previously mentioned I thought I may have too much...... Now I've added in some fish for the first time last night and today they are still hiding behind the spray bars unless I turn off the filters. I'll give them some more time and make a further assessment later.

But the current circulation seem to lead to the fish not wanting to inhabit the areas around the wood work.

I have already bored out the holes in the spray bars and pointed them upwards a bit to try and make it a little bit less turbulent and used the filter taps to reduce output. But I feel I make have to do more. Might possibly bore some more holes in the spraybars as a stop gap measure. 

I'm going to order some lily pipe intake and outtake sets anyway to replace the nasty plastic intakes at least. The issue I have is I have to keep a lid on the tank so I can't mount 2 lily pipes any way but from the back to the front at both ends of the tank which I feel might end up with really disturbed substrate in the front corners.

Suggestions for solutions i've not thought of happily received.

Best Regards,
John


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## creg (31 Jan 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

awesome wood and overall scape, cant wait to see this progress


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## JohnC (1 Feb 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*



			
				creg said:
			
		

> awesome wood and overall scape, cant wait to see this progress




Thanks man. I'm eager to get to the massive trimming stage too.

-------

Re:flow - i actually removed the spray bars and pointed the outflows towards the front of the glass to see what the effect of the lily's might be to good results. No sand flying everywhere and the plants at the centre still move a touch. So hopefully lily's and turning up the filters again will be all fine.

The fish however still have not responded well. The little test group of 6 are still lurking at the top of the tank at the back. Initially I thought they were gasping for air due to the CO2 being too high. Since turning that down they are still there. Not moving very much occasionally making a brief trip to lower in the water column to come straight back to the surface area again.

The plants pearl like crazy during the day, the CO2 is low enough. This is making me start thinking the tank still isn't cycled properly yet and I could be possibly getting some effects of ammonium poisoning. 

But even that doesn't make much sense due to the massive over filtration, the tank running for two weeks, plenty of healthy plants to suck it all up. Amanos are fine.

Edit - Just dawned on me that the Aquasoil is leeching the ammonia. (first time user)  8) 

I'll do some daily water changes and see how that goes. 

Best Regards,
John


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## hotweldfire (1 Feb 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

Brilliant scaping. Really love how this looks, totally my kind of thing


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## JohnC (5 Feb 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*



			
				hotweldfire said:
			
		

> Brilliant scaping. Really love how this looks, totally my kind of thing




Thanks, can't say enough how much more fun using a rectangle tank is vs the corner. every time i go do something with the tank I notice it.

-------------------------------





Latest photo. Still waiting for my other DSLR lens to come back from repair so nothing too close for now. The clean up crew are starting work on the diatoms, it great seeing the colour of the wood coming through.

Plants are beginning to settle in nicely, glosso slowly starting to creep in places. Others are a little too shaded but I expected this and have some additional small crypts coming to fill a couple of gaps.

Glassware ordered and fish are slowly going in.

Best regards,
John


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## Bufo Bill (6 Feb 2012)

*"In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

It's looking beautiful mate, Hope you're not going to try and build a mini "Sunken Ry-leh" city in the corner there!

Seriously though this such a lovely scape, congratulations are in order before it's even finished . . . but I am sooo jealous of that wood.

Now if I only had tentacles long enough to reach through windows . . .
All the best from Bill.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## JohnC (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

Hi,

Thought I should update everyone on the progress of this one while I set up the low light DIY job.

It's amazing the speed things happen at jumping from the solid medium intensity light of my corner to the high light of this setup. Not only the growth rates of things like the stems and glosso but also the algae outbreaks come thick and fast.

In the first few weeks I got a lot of new tank setup stuff. A wave of diatoms, followed by a wave of staghorn. Both died down with some mechanical removal and steady increase of algae eating crews. Then a bout of green water, quickly fixed by a addition of a small UV filter internal I have kicking about that specific thing.

More recently I've been suffering from a bit of BBA on the rocks and wood along the front and more on the left side. This is coupled with a bit of green dust & fuzz algae on the sand and moss. All of which point to CO2 fluctuations or distribution.

Since I have A LOT of filtration on this set up I'm starting to form a theory that my CO2 reactor is more trouble then is good. Since it's removal on the corner tank and a switch to conventional ceramic diffuser any remaining algae on that set up has since disappeared. Now that could be down to improved flow rates on that set up but frankly now i'm getting it on this tank I think it could be something else.

When the CO2 enters the reactor it does so at the top of the chamber and then the water direction forces it downwards. This means that over the course of the day a CO2 pocket builds up which, when the CO2 goes off an hour before lights out, then gradually declines overnight. So basically my CO2 injection continues long after I actually stop the supply. In turn I think this leads to a larger CO2 fluctuation then I would get using a ceramic diffuser, causing BBA.

Initially i'm going to try solving this by modifying the timings a touch and reducing the amount I inject. But I think I'll probably end up switching the reactor out for a more traditional ceramic diffuser or an atomiser.

A couple of quick photos I took today after a big scrub clean yesterday to remove the BBA from the rocks -









The glosso was interesting to get carpeting. Initially I did not plant it correctly and a good amount of the plantletts shot up rather then creeping. Through a gradual process of trimming and replanting i've got it carpeting to a extent. Although it's not a densely packed as I'd like so far. It's had two complete trims now.

The hydrocotyle Japan is insane. Probably the fastest growing thing i've ever had in a tank. Still I'm liking the way it has filled out, although i've had to pull it out of every space during water changes. 

The moss is a bit ragged in the photo as I've been scrubbing the wood a touch. I'm going to focus on the moss more when I've got the algae sorted out, trimming it to bush it out more. Initially the lower parts of the tied off moss were magnets for the staghorn as they died back.

The stems are on their second trimming and are just getting the pruned look. The Ludwigia Arcuata did not adjust very quickly to the new setup and got swallowed by the Rotala. I adjusted the planting and some stems are surviving at the back but I think I will end up pulling it out. I'll see how it all pans out.

Questions, comments, critique all welcome.

Best Regards,
John


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## hotweldfire (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

Still loving it   

Interesting what you say about the reactor. I have something similar and can't beat hair algae. About to change to an UP atomiser. Will be interesting to see if that makes a difference for the reasons you state.


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## JohnC (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*



			
				hotweldfire said:
			
		

> Still loving it
> 
> Interesting what you say about the reactor. I have something similar and can't beat hair algae. About to change to an UP atomiser. Will be interesting to see if that makes a difference for the reasons you state.



I had an up atomiser on my corner before I had this same reactor. I didn't like the "fizzy bottle" look of the tank but also I had issues with the wrong working pressure of my regulator. BUT I do recall I had no algae issues when I had the atomiser and did after, but that might well have been due to other issues at the time.

The reason I massively over filtered this tank is due to the HUGE reduction in filter output when the reactor is inline. It took me a while to work that out the first time around. Even this time it's noticeable the difference between the flow coming from the ex1200 attached to the heater and the one attached to the reactor.


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## Westyggx (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*

First time seing this John, looks awsome mate.


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## JohnC (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 31st Jan - Over Flow*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> First time seing this John, looks awsome mate.



Why thank you 

Being the modest person I am i'd happily say its getting there.


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## darren636 (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*

reminds me of a coral reef- just in green


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## JohnC (28 Mar 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> reminds me of a coral reef- just in green



cheers, kinda fits with the Cthulhu theme with him arising from the depths. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu


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## greenink (31 Mar 2012)

*"In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting There*

Love this tank. Having similar AM1000 issues myself - plus the swishing noise. Like your theory about delay / instability as I'm also getting BBA issues that it takes a lot of easy carbo to sort. Might switch to an UP atomiser direct into the filter or even into the AM1000 (though take your point about flow). 

Have never used an in tank diffuser so might try this eventually. 

How are you stopping the soil mixing with the sand. Is this just not a problem? And what kind of substrate cleaning are you doing? Any vacuuming?


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## JohnC (2 Apr 2012)

*Re:*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Love this tank. Having similar AM1000 issues myself - plus the swishing noise. Like your theory about delay / instability as I'm also getting BBA issues that it takes a lot of easy carbo to sort. Might switch to an UP atomiser direct into the filter or even into the AM1000 (though take your point about flow).
> 
> Have never used an in tank diffuser so might try this eventually.
> 
> How are you stopping the soil mixing with the sand. Is this just not a problem? And what kind of substrate cleaning are you doing? Any vacuuming?



Why thank you. 

I'm like you in regard to getting kit out of the tank, hence why i got the reactor, but tbh i think the diffuser is just a hell of a lot easier in the long run. If my extra koralia doesnt start helping along with some tweaking of the timer I'm going to switch it out.

Re: soil mixing with sand, I have a big wall of stones around the soil.    I am vacuuming a touch but mostly to get rid of green algae buildups on the sand. I'm learnings Amano's lesson on decorative sand first hand. I now know better for future set ups.

Best Regards,
John


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## Ady34 (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*

Hi there,
this is a very nice looking tank, the rock work reminds me of one of George Farmers crypt tanks and is a great way of positively seperating the sand and soil.


			
				JohnC said:
			
		

> I'm learnings Amano's lesson on decorative sand first hand. I now know better for future set ups.


i had a sand bed, seemed like a good idea at the time too, now its sand with a layer of soil, i gave up in the end and let the shrimps move it wherever they wanted!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## JohnC (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> this is a very nice looking tank, the rock work reminds me of one of George Farmers crypt tanks and is a great way of positively seperating the sand and soil.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! 

The sand will eventually have a bit of overspill Glosso from the main bulk of the planting. It's already started to be honest and its looking good.

The shrimp are kicking about a little soil but nothing I can't hoover out on each clean. 

Best Regards,
John


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*

Can i ask where you managed to buy so much moss?
thanks


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## JohnC (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Can i ask where you managed to buy so much moss?
> thanks




My corner tank is still going and is a moss manufacturing machine.  8)


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## Iain Sutherland (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*

looking to sell any at all 

tank is looking great.


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## JohnC (11 Apr 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 27th Mar - Getting The*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> looking to sell any at all
> 
> tank is looking great.



I'll PM you.  8) 

And thanks!

Still getting too much BBA on the hardscape for my liking although the plant growth is amazing, even though I've added a pump to aid circulation.

I think i'm going to whip the reactor out this week and use a standard diffuser.


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## JohnC (1 May 2012)

Hi,

Quick update.

Still having massive BBA issues. These photos are after I spent 2 hours scrubbing rocks and wood yesterday.   

Each time I do this i dislodge the wood more and the moss does not have time to get fully established in the way I want.

Very annoying.  I still have the reactor on with the extra pump for some more circulation but have adjusted the timing to have the CO2 stop 2 hours before lights out and come on 30 min before lights on. The checker is stable light green the entire time.

I've given the filters a clean which may help, additionally the plant mass has increased somewhat since last posting.

Although I've also done some massive trims and prunes as part of my efforts to learn more about glosso growing. I really too it back a long way last time and was so impressed when it came back better then ever a week later.

The Hydrocotyle also seems to love being hacked right down.

Some photos for now as I've got to go to bed.


















I'll come back to some more specific points tomorrow.

Best Regards,
John


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## Ady34 (1 May 2012)

Hi John,
you must have done a good job of scrubbing the BBA as not much evidence it was ever there! Maybe not what your looking for (either for the look of the scape or a 'remedy not reason' for the bba), but siamensis 'flying fox' are supposed to eat bba, and now its been scrubbed away they could keep it in check. I know its an obvious question but have you placed the dc in various positions around the tank to ensure even distribution of c02?
The plants are really filling in nicely now and if that glosso carpets fully this will look completely balanced and truly stunning. Great plant choices and positioning   .
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## awtong (2 May 2012)

At the front you have two areas of red/brown plants poking out behind the wood slightly left centre and behind the stone slightly right centre.  Are these Crypts of some sort?  maybe undulata?.  I love the colour and texture of them and would love to know what they are.

The tank is looking great even if you have a few issues.  As Ady states Siamese algae eaters are great for dealing with BBA.  I have two in my 450l and never see any BBA.

Good luck with the algae,

Andy


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## Westyggx (2 May 2012)

Looking good John, nice growth and again i cant see any BBA so good job on keeping on top of it!


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## JohnC (2 May 2012)

Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hi John,
> you must have done a good job of scrubbing the BBA as not much evidence it was ever there! Maybe not what your looking for (either for the look of the scape or a 'remedy not reason' for the bba), but siamensis 'flying fox' are supposed to eat bba, and now its been scrubbed away they could keep it in check. I know its an obvious question but have you placed the dc in various positions around the tank to ensure even distribution of c02?
> The plants are really filling in nicely now and if that glosso carpets fully this will look completely balanced and truly stunning. Great plant choices and positioning   .
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



It's almost a complete tank breakdown each time I do it and this is the third time i've had too now.   

The moss is really taking a beating too as there is BBA in a lot of the fissendens. I do have a bucket load more I could replace it with but i'm trying to get the thread out of the tank as it is one of the BBA magnets.

I'm hoping that each time I do the full clean the underlaying issue will be have sorted and it won't come back, or at least come back in lesser force. This last clean I potentially could have been removing BBA that started to colonise before the changes I made to the CO2 timing through the reactor. Hopefully this will be the last of these big scrubs.

Siamese algae eaters - i'd rather not, i know of the fish but they are too large for the tank and i've heard bad things about them in the long run.

I'll put another drop checker in but I'm sceptical that CO2 distribution is the issue outright as I have so much flow with the two ex 1200's. But I might be getting a slight cancellation of flow in the central front area.....possibly.

Thanks for the compliments of plants. I'm really enjoying the glosso carpet after the initial hassles. The hydrocotyle is mental growth rates as I mentioned before but as long as you have no fear in hacking it back it really comes good.



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> At the front you have two areas of red/brown plants poking out behind the wood slightly left centre and behind the stone slightly right centre.  Are these Crypts of some sort?  maybe undulata?.  I love the colour and texture of them and would love to know what they are.
> 
> The tank is looking great even if you have a few issues.  As Ady states Siamese algae eaters are great for dealing with BBA.  I have two in my 450l and never see any BBA.
> 
> ...



Yes on the crypts although I don't have names for them. The larger of the two is possibly not Undulata as it is a little bit small with leaves no longer then 10cm. Its a deep red hammered appearance and sits low on the substrate when it's grown out. I nicked it from Seb (another Edinburgh UKAPS member) whom I help out with his tank, as it is a lovely fore ground crypt. 

The other type (the smaller) is one I picked up from Outsideinside aquatics ages ago probably from a specialist grower in spain. I've been nursing it around through a couple of set up's as it is so small and dark brown/red. Again no name, even back checking through the tickets from all the plants I bought at the time.  

There are some more of the same types dotted around, mostly hidden by hydrocotyle, that will become clearer once they mature and I do some creative pruning.



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> Looking good John, nice growth and again i cant see any BBA so good job on keeping on top of it!



Thanks!, but i have to say it is trying my patients. 

-------

Overall I will give the scape another month with the current CO2 set up and see how it goes. I've learned before that changing things too often is as likely to set off algae as doing nothing at all.

I've been pondering a few things of late while reading here in regards to algae and dosing schedules.

Mark has been advocating a number of times the ADA'ish approach of reducing dosing and letting the soil do the work. Others the same, pushing the age old ideas that nitrates in the water cause more algae. Parts of which I'd got past through my years learning and using EI.

I look at the hassles i'm having with this scape in contrast to my corner (which is still running btw  8) ) both with EI, the corner with medium to low light, this scape with very high light, and it shows me how much more I still have to learn.

Always learning.

The high light growth rates are AMAZING. I hammered the glosso/hydro back to a cm above the substrate, down to bare stalks, so much that I thought i may have over done it. But boom a week later i've got a carpet again, better then ever. 

The stems under high light are a revelation. Again hacking back to an inch from the substrate and within a week i've got new growth every where.

I'm used to using EI to superboost my plant growth but EI + aquasoil + high light is mental, almost too much (although this tank is designed that way).

My algae issues are just BBA and some GDA on the glass. The vast majority of BBA is occurring on the hardscape.

Because I made this tank hardscape heavy, and technically underplanted compared to most tanks (I was trying to be too arty too be honest) as soon as there is a fluctuation, or something somewhere goes slightly out of kilter, the BBA gets a foothold where it can. In my case since my EI knowledge (and substrate) has allowed my plants to grow well, the algae goes for the rocks. Of which i have many.

Now if i'd made a Iwagumi with three large rocks and the same plants the weekly water change and clean would be done in 30 minutes and i'd be reporting a lovely hassle free existance (i'd hope) of lush plant growth. 

Because I went complicated hardscape with my wierder hardware set up, i created my own problems.

I could for example remove the retaining line of stones and replace the sand with more soil to have the glosso fully fill the tank, thus removing 90% of the hardscape the BBA is growing on.

Coming back to the EI vs ada'ish comment. I'm somewhat coming around to the thinking that with EI, it's designed to make plants grow well. Tom often references that soil substrates and EI have a lot in common in regards to providing the plant every thing it needs to grow well. Just in different ways.

With EI if you have a lush, full growth, almost everything is planted tank, which i've done before, like my corner is now. The turbo charged plant growth keeps the BBA from getting a foot hold on anything and any areas where it does go can be quickly removed. That is to say if you have a small outbreak for what ever reason.

With the ada'ish tank you get the faster growth rates from the nutrients being in the soil and get your lush growth, but the leaner water column dosing would mean when/if an algae out break occurs the algae have less to feed on and the growth would be slower and less extensive. 

Now I am a lover of EI and will keep using it but what I'm getting at is this.

In a hard scape heavy, higher light intensity tank, would reducing the water column dosing by using soil substrates mainly be a better methodology then full EI, with the presumption that somewhere at some point an algae out break will happen and your clean up is going to be an on going nightmare due to your overly complex set up?  8) 

Best Regards,
John


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## awtong (2 May 2012)

[quote="JohnC

Yes on the crypts although I don't have names for them. The larger of the two is possibly not Undulata as it is a little bit small with leaves no longer then 10cm. Its a deep red hammered appearance and sits low on the substrate when it's grown out. I nicked it from Seb (another Edinburgh UKAPS member) whom I help out with his tank, as it is a lovely fore ground crypt. 

The other type (the smaller) is one I picked up from Outsideinside aquatics ages ago probably from a specialist grower in spain. I've been nursing it around through a couple of set up's as it is so small and dark brown/red. Again no name, even back checking through the tickets from all the plants I bought at the time.  

There are some more of the same types dotted around, mostly hidden by hydrocotyle, that will become clearer once they mature and I do some creative pruning.

Because I made this tank hardscape heavy, and technically underplanted compared to most tanks (I was trying to be too arty too be honest) as soon as there is a fluctuation, or something somewhere goes slightly out of kilter, the BBA gets a foothold where it can. In my case since my EI knowledge (and substrate) has allowed my plants to grow well, the algae goes for the rocks. Of which i have many.

Now if i'd made a Iwagumi with three large rocks and the same plants the weekly water change and clean would be done in 30 minutes and i'd be reporting a lovely hassle free existance (i'd hope) of lush plant growth. 

Best Regards,
John[/quote]

Shame you don't know the names they just seemed to have lovely leaf shape and a really deep red colouration.  As I am very low tech Crypts are my best friend so I am always looking out for a nice contrast within the different species.  I will see what I can find on some websites and try and find something similar.  

You could have designed an Iwagumi style layout but this design kills it every time in my opinion.  I am not an Iwagumi man!

Hope you get this sorted and keep this lovely tank going.

Andy


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## JohnC (2 May 2012)

awtong said:
			
		

> Shame you don't know the names they just seemed to have lovely leaf shape and a really deep red colouration.  As I am very low tech Crypts are my best friend so I am always looking out for a nice contrast within the different species.  I will see what I can find on some websites and try and find something similar.
> 
> You could have designed an Iwagumi style layout but this design kills it every time in my opinion.  I am not an Iwagumi man!
> 
> ...



I'm just getting back into crypts. My substrate in the corner is basically inert so crypts, and anything heavy root feeding, did not grow well. It's awesome seeing them grow properly in aqua soil or flora base. The 70L lower light tank i've got going now has faster crypt growth then my full EI corner.

I wish I had the name of these two, they are awesome, i'm on a mission to get these two specific types grown out fully.

Re: Iwagumi. I'm trying to think about what I could actually get away with in this tank due to the high-lite ballast being so ridiculously high light and no option of raising the light. I think a fast growth Iwagumi might, perversely be easier to maintain in the long run. 

I also have a massive pile of huge rocks in the hallway waiting to be used on something.  8) 

But if i did it it would be exactly the same plants again, minus the moss.

Best Regards,
John


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## Westyggx (2 May 2012)

John, what have you noticed with glosso pruning mate? Weekly cut = more dense growth? Cheers


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## JohnC (2 May 2012)

Westyggx said:
			
		

> John, what have you noticed with glosso pruning mate? Weekly cut = more dense growth? Cheers



Well taking advice from readings here i've also knocked my lighting span up an hour to help it carpet.

Pruning wise, its more i've learned that it recovers so quickly and denser so can take stupidly hard trimming. I left it a little long last time and hacked it down to stems, in places I could barely see a surviving leaf. But it came back with force. Thicker then ever. I'm going to continue with fortnightly trims down to one leaf height now to see how that looks. Rather then going harder but longer between trims.


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## hotweldfire (2 May 2012)

JohnC said:
			
		

> Ady34 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is interesting and something I have been thinking about myself. Have considered pulling out my reflectors and going back to ADA (already have aquasoil in the tank) instead of EI I've been using for the last year. Instead I have cranked up the EI ferts by about 50%. 

The reason is that I noticed my frogbit was struggling. This suggests to me inadequate nutrients. I think it was Darrel who suggested this as a nutrient monitor and it seems to me a very sensible testing mechanism. 

In my new nano I had some struggling hairgrass and a wee bit of hair algae a few weeks back but the frogbit was thriving. This is because I had reduced the co2 to prepare for introduction of livestock but of course this didn't affect the frogbit.

Perhaps drop some floating plants in there and see how they get on? If they do fine then this may suggest it is a co2 issue after all. Perhaps related to your diffusion method? Did you say it was a reactor?


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## greenink (2 May 2012)

*"In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA*

I know it's cheating, but a bit of flourish excel nukes my bba when it appears. Have found much better than EasyCarbo. That way you can do EI with the number of rocks I have. But think your point about EI with lots of hardscape is very well made. 

The other thing about amano is he has millions of ottos and shrimp, way higher than most of us, which helps keep the biofilm down to the point where algae can't even start. And of course he has loads of efficient, eager minions.... while most of us are trying to grab ten minutes when the wife isn't looking. 

Tank is looking great though.


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## JohnC (30 Oct 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 30th Oct - Almost...*

Hi,

It just dawned on me i've not updated any of journals for eons. Have been a bit busy with things at home.

I've removed the reflectors to slow things down a bit and it's helped loads with the BBA which i'm on top of now. Other then that i've somewhat neglected the tank to let it grow in a bit. I'm working on it to make some good full tank shots at some point in the near future.

A couple of photos from different times in the last few months. 


I had to top up the aquasoil as it slumped more then expected (this photo was elsewhere on the forum).





Topping up aquasoil bomb. 





A nice end shot from last week before a trim.

I'll post more at a future time.

Best Regards,
John


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## clonitza (30 Oct 2012)

Nice one with the mist.  Great scape John!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (30 Oct 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA*

Very nice John! Will look at this on the laptop when I get in. Growth looks beautiful


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## Ady34 (30 Oct 2012)

Looking really nice John, and although not what you would have wanted but that shot of the as bomb is cool.
Look forward to more shots of this beauty.
Judging by the look of that pristine wood you seem to have beaten the bba too.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## jack-rythm (30 Oct 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA*

How did u make the mist?!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ben22 (1 Nov 2012)

its got to be photoshop and some layers, looks like an epic set up though, great colours throughout.


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## JohnC (1 Nov 2012)

motionless said:
			
		

> its got to be photoshop and some layers, looks like an epic set up though, great colours throughout.




I wish 

It's what happens when you top up aqua soil...

I assure you it's not a good thing.


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## jack-rythm (1 Nov 2012)

*Re: "In The Arms of Cthulhu" - 180L - 1st May - BBA*

I'm actually with you now I'm thinking about it. In my last scape I topped more and it went cloudy. You mist of take a photo before i t moved through the tank lol. Wicked affect lol

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## hypnogogia (29 Apr 2020)

Old thread, but how did you fit two i takes and outtakes through the smallish cut outs in the back of the Rio?


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