# Feeding a California Blackworm culture - Lumbriculus variegatus



## Simon Cole (25 Dec 2018)

I have kept a small culture of California blackworms (_lumbriculus variegatus_) for quite a while and I tend to feed them boiled broccoli. The population growth is still a bit slow. Could anyone recommend a different food for them so that I could try to expand my culture?


----------



## Edvet (25 Dec 2018)

I've kept them too, they were slow to increase too. The trick seems to be damaging them, two halves grow into 2 new ones. They feed on bacterial growth, i ,as stated in many articles, "fed" them on paper.
Sexual reproduction is stated to be very slow.
Darrel and more have them as permanent colony  growing in many tanks/filters.


----------



## Konsa (26 Dec 2018)

Hi
I keep Californian black worms for about year and a half now.I have them in all my tanks (mainly my shrimp only) and outdoors in 3 unfiltered   bare bottom tubs with sizes from 15l to arround 80l.The ones i keep in tanks eat fish food(tetra tabs,spirulina  shrimp pellets .......)  not picky at all I can clearly see them piled up on the spot where food drops on substrate.The outdoors are unfed full with moss live and dead grasses (leaf litter)and floating plants.Reproduction is faster with substrate as Edvet said it helps break the worms =more worms.The thing is in tubs without flow(filtration) any substrate will go bad.Mine did for about 7 months and was less than 1cm thick. Ended up with stinking bucket of milky water.But I have snails ,asselus aquaticus and Crangonyx Pseudogracilis in them tubs too so more bioload.I use Daphnia in the tubs as indicator for water quality.
From tank I harvest with gravel vac after feeding when  they cluster together(Thanks Darrel for the tip)
I got my cultures from Darrel(dw1305).I know he keeps them in unfiltwred buckets with  fox tail (Ceratophyllum demersum )
Regards Konsa


----------



## Simon Cole (26 Dec 2018)

Thank you both for your replies. I think I'll try some fish food. Great idea about adding some daphnia and it's good to hear they don't mind cooler temperatures. I'm looking forwards to dividing the colony.


----------



## Konsa (27 Dec 2018)

Hi
They dont mind cooler temperature but seem more active in my shrimp tank 22°C.Think Darrel keeps some indoors over winter months  too.
Have a look here:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/blackworm-and-asellus-buckets.50145/#post-492485
Regards Konsa


----------



## dw1305 (27 Dec 2018)

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> Think Darrel keeps some indoors over winter months too.


I do. At the moment I've got a tank full of them, because I don't have any fish in there.  It has also had a bit of population explosion of _Asellus_ and <"_Crangonyx">._

I'd recommend using Hornwort (_Ceratophyllum demersum_) in the cultures, it works really well. Have a look at <"Blackworms and _Asellus..">.
_
cheers Darrel


----------



## Simon Cole (28 Dec 2018)

Cheers Darrel. I've got some Hornwort (_Ceratophyllum Demersum_) so I'll give that a go. I used to love collecting _Grammarus spp_. and _Asellus spp._ locally when I was a child and I can see a use for them in quarantine tanks - do they eat fry?


----------



## dw1305 (28 Dec 2018)

Hi all, 





Simon Cole said:


> I used to love collecting _Grammarus spp_. and _Asellus spp._ locally when I was a child and I can see a use for them in quarantine tanks - do they eat fry?


_Asellus_ are fry safe. I was originally told about them as a "tank janitors" for use with _Corydoras_ eggs and fry. 

I'd be a bit more concerned about _Gammarus_ spp., they are much more omnivorous, and I'd be particularly worried about accidentally introducing _Dikerogammarus _spp.

You are more than welcome to some _Asellus_ and _Crangonyx, _they have been in the tanks for several generations now, and <"they post OK in wet moss">. I'll try and get a video and post.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Simon Cole (31 Dec 2018)

dw1305 said:


> You are more than welcome to some _Asellus_ and _Crangonyx, _they have been in the tanks for several generations now, and <"they post OK in wet moss">. I'll try and get a video and post.


Hi Darrel. I would be very grateful for some, if you don't mind posting them. It would save a huge amount of hassle doing water changes to remove uneaten food.


----------



## dw1305 (31 Dec 2018)

Hi all, 





Simon Cole said:


> if you don't mind posting them.


PM me your address, I don't want any money, they will be ~£4 to post and that can be a donation to the forum.

cheers Darrel


----------



## mort (31 Dec 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, _Asellus_ are fry safe. I was originally told about them as a "tank janitors" for use with _Corydoras_ eggs and fry.



Sorry to jump in but are these the same Asellus sp I'm likely to have in my pond? I did once consider adding some to a tank but read they can be predatory, so wondering if I got my wires crossed.


----------



## dw1305 (31 Dec 2018)

Hi all,





mort said:


> but are these the same Asellus sp I'm likely to have in my pond?


Yes they are _Asellus aquaticus. _I think they are entirely vegetarian detrivores, and so are _Crangonyx.

Gammarus_ are definitely more opportunistic and omnivorous.

cheers Darrel


----------



## mort (31 Dec 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Yes they are _Asellus aquaticus. _I think they are entirely vegetarian detrivores, and so are _Crangonyx.
> 
> Gammarus_ are definitely more opportunistic and omnivorous.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thanks Darrel, I might slowly warm a few up and see how they do.


----------



## Konsa (31 Dec 2018)

Hi all
Yes they are _Asellus aquaticus. _I think they are entirely vegetarian detrivores, and so are _Crangonyx.
+1 for that 
And thay are awesome janitors and algae eaters.When I had them together with blackworms and Ramshorn snails  used the tank to clear my buces and anubias from any form  (excluding  GSA) of algae including BBA .Perfectly clean plants in few days.
Regards Konsa 
_


----------



## dw1305 (4 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> +1 for that. And thay are awesome janitors and algae eaters.When I had them together with blackworms and Ramshorn snails used the tank to clear my buces and anubias from any form (excluding GSA) of algae including BBA


I found the reference for _Asellus_  as a safe "tank janitor", it was from the _Parosphromenus_ project <"Invertebrates in a breeding tank">. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Simon Cole (10 Jan 2019)

Quick update - I found some in a local stream. Thank you Darrel for your kind offer, but I just couldn't resist a quick survey to see what was living, and I bagged about ten specimens to bring home. I have been surveying this stream since I was about 8 years old. There was a very good population of bullheads (Cottus gobio), that I returned carefully because I seem to remember that they are protected. It all looked very healthy. 

I was reading this study about using seasoned ash leaves (Fraxinus excelsior) to feed Asellus aquaticus, and it got me thinking about the role of fungi as a nutritional source for many other shrimp. So here is my question:  does anybody here culture specific microbes in their foodstuffs in order to provide nutrients to certain grazing or detritivore species? 

I did use some fish food, broccoli, and celery leaves to feed the California blackworms, before adding them to a larger container. I wondered if they would grow faster on vegetative foods that were cultured with fungi? I sense an experiment coming.


----------



## Edvet (10 Jan 2019)

This is what i looked at:https://www.eeob.iastate.edu/faculty/DrewesC/htdocs/LVCULT.htm


----------



## dw1305 (10 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





Simon Cole said:


> So here is my question: does anybody here culture specific microbes in their foodstuffs in order to provide nutrients to certain grazing or detritivore species?





Simon Cole said:


> I was reading this study about using seasoned ash leaves (Fraxinus excelsior) to feed Asellus aquaticus, and it got me thinking about the role of fungi as a nutritional source for many other shrimp


I asked Ian Thornhill and he said that the carbon:nitrogen ratio is a pretty good proxy for palatibility, so soft leaves are usually more favoured than more lignified leaves. All the detrivores will be getting a lot of their nutrition  from the fungal content of the leaves, but you don't need to try and culture the fungi, they are universal in fresh-water (including in soil pore spaces etc).  I have that paper and it is an Alder, rather than Ash, one.

The standard foodstuff for experimental ecocosm studies on aquatic detrivores is Alder (_Alnus glutinosa). _Because _Asellus_ is used as a <"model organism"> in ecotoxicicological studies there is a standard experimental methodology using dried and re-hydrated Alder leaf discs.





Simon Cole said:


> Quick update - I found some in a local stream. Thank you Darrel for your kind offer, but I just couldn't resist a quick survey to see what was living, and I bagged about ten specimens to bring home. I have been surveying this stream since I was about 8 years old. There was a very good population of bullheads (Cottus gobio), that I returned carefully because I seem to remember that they are protected. It all looked very healthy.


Nice. You usually get _Cottus gobio_ where you have <"clean water, woody debris and a lot of _Gammarus">. _Are you sure they are _Asellus_ or _Crangonyx_ not _ Gammarus pulex?
_
This is my spare tank at the moment, I've got my "insurance invertebrates" in there (the rest are outside in the buckets).

This is last night when I put some cucumber in, the crustaceans swimming around are _Crangonyx_:



and this is the _Lumbriculus_ and _Asellus_ on the sediment.



cheers Darrel


----------



## Simon Cole (10 Jan 2019)

Hiya Darrel, you are right it was alder leaves I got - last night I collected some from underneath the trees down at Padbury Brook. There is both _Asellus_ and _Gammarus _- but I haven't checked the species - I assume it is the common one. I'll check to see whether there are any _Crangonyx_. I read your post about feeding ornamental shrimp conditioned alder leaves, and I've been giving that some thought too.


----------



## dw1305 (10 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





Simon Cole said:


> There is both _Asellus_ and _Gammarus_


Perfect, I've never <"had much joy"> with _Gammarus_, but _Asellus_ are resilient tank inhabitants. 

The ones you've collected are probably _Asellus aquaticus, _these differ from the other species (_Proasellus meridianus)_ by having two obvious lighter dots at the back of the head (when you look from above). _Proasellus_ has a continuous line. 

You get _P. meridianus_ in streams, but I have no idea how it does in the aquarium, although it is much less tolerant of pollution (and much less common) than _A. aquaticus_. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Simon Cole (10 Jan 2019)

The Asellus was found in slow flowing leaf litter, and the Gammarus prefered more open water where there were rocks, pebbles and riffles.


----------



## dw1305 (10 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





Edvet said:


> This is what i looked at:https://www.eeob.iastate.edu/faculty/DrewesC/htdocs/LVCULT.htm


Nearly all the culture methods use paper towels or cardboard. It is the standard culture method used for ecotoxicology studies.

Mine had always done well in a tank with a substrate and plants, but the only other reference I could find for this culture method was <"How to ....Method 2.">.

There are also a lot of threads about the cultures going bad and smelling when you use paper as a medium.

I suspect it is a bit like the <"_Daphnia_ cultures">, these last longer and are more stable if you add dead leaves, or hay, to them, but you get quicker colony growth using feeding yeast.

cheers Darrel


----------



## sciencefiction (13 Feb 2019)

I have Californian black worms which I got around May 2018. They are in a tank with hillstream loaches,and still going. They tend to hide under the stones rather than burrowing in the substrate,or at least thats where they tend to hide. They also like  eat fish food.


----------



## Simon Cole (13 Jun 2019)

I'm sorry for resurrecting this old thread. I just wanted to share a photo showing that my California blackworm population is now booming.  Happy days.


----------



## Edvet (13 Jun 2019)

Good good!
Could you describe how/what you are doing ?


----------



## Simon Cole (14 Jun 2019)

They are in a 10 litre tub. The tub fits in my Juwel Vision 180 cabinet. There is a thin layer of old aquarium gravel and a sponge filter. Every couple of months I change the water with used aquarium water. They get fed solely on boiled broccoli each day. The temperature of the room is about 18 degrees Celsius, rising to 25 on a warm day. The more broccoli you feed them the more worms you get. I would say that I harvest 500 worms per week, and the population is still booming. There must be several thousand in this one small tub. They are harvested using a pipette when they have come out of the gravel completely and are feeding together forming a ball. I do not try to crush them or to disturb the gravel, but suction from the pipette may do this a bit. 

Out of all of the cultures I have:  they are the cleanest, they are fully aquatic and remain as live food in the tank, when left out they do not go foul or die, they do not mind if you forget to feed them, they tolerate any temperature, they eat almost anything, they never seem to crash, feeding is simple, and if you do get a bit of broccoli in the tank - it's fine. I would strongly recommend that everyone starts to culture them. The smell of broccoli being eaten is a bit like old farts, but at least my cat now has an excuse.


----------



## Edvet (14 Jun 2019)

Gonna try them again, thx


----------

