# Sexing Badis Badis



## castle (24 Jun 2017)

Now, I know the general rule, colourful, slim belied fish are males, rounder paler fish females...

But in my tank, the 'female' seems to be chasing the other male/female.

I have 3 Badis Badis, intention was 1 male, 2 females. One fish (the male isn't photo'd as he's red very colourful, and lives in a cave... however fish B and him get along fine, no chasing and can hang around together. Fish A does not play nice with B.

Fish A was the first fish in the tank - a rescue from a local shop which had had it for 'months' with no interest, the other 2 - male and B - came today from another lfs. Could Fish A just be defending territory (the whole tank) regardless of gender? fish A is a good 1cm smaller than the male bought today, but same size as fish B. 

Okay, so a  few images:

A -Female(?): Round belly (well fed) lines darken, but no colour really, lfs said they'd had her for months, so not too young. Has some slight red colouring laterally.





B -Unsure(?): - coloration in dorsal fin, slight redness in belly, belly not flat, but flatter than the other for sure.




Together: A above B





They live in 'ere: - Which is a new setup, whilst I wait for a tank to be delivered.




Thanks - Josh


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## castle (25 Jun 2017)

slight update, I moved fish B to another tank (CPD's and shrimp) far more relaxed in there; which means I can keep an eye on fish B to await showing it's true gender.

For the above tank; I've added 3 more juvenile badsi badis; this time it looks like 2 of them are male, 1 unsure. they're all under 2cm, but Fish A has no interest in them...

What an odd group fish. 

The good news is my local lfs is happy for me to take the males.


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## castle (25 Jun 2017)

Oh might as well add...

This fish according to SF is a female...


 

Whereas this fish is male:


 

I have enough of these now to know (according to colouration) one has to be female. I will wait and see. 

The plan is to put the group (6 in total) into a 60CM heaving crypyt/wood cube and see what happens.


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## zozo (25 Jun 2017)

I got a little harem of these as well, bought as 3 females and 2 males according the LFS owner.. He stated it wasn't that difficult.. But, later on it more seemed like i got 4 males and 1 female.. As stated at so many other places the difficulty is in the fact that subdominant males or maybe under age males, dunno when or what, seem to show more female color characteristics. And in later stadium color up.. Or it could very well be that females as well have the potential to devellop color.

They seem to be territorial and they indeed devided the tank, all roam around in different corners.. But now i have 2 which are simularly bright red/blue colored constantly hanging around together.. Looking like they are pairing up. Not chasing eachother but occupying the same territory.. So i have no idea if males can do this and mate up as well or if one is female coloring up the same way.. But i can not seem to find any obvious distinction between the 2. According the info they look like 2 males.

While the one complete grey colored assumed female constantly is solo roaming the tank. 

It beats me..


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## castle (25 Jun 2017)

If the two fish I thought are female, are female then I suspect that females are also territorial... not convinced tho.

The male of the tank I haven't seen much of, hasn't left his cave... a paler fish did go in there with him yesterday, but probably not a female. Probably a frog dressed as a female badis badis.

I think as times goes on I might be able to spot their behaviour a little more, in the store it's impossible to see a female, they're in with some bleeding heart tetras, and very outnumbered. Of the 3 I bought, one is definitely male, really nice red colouring (f***er), and the other two I'm not sure, but they do darken up. I'm worried about them tho, very underfed when I got them, and all 3 less than an inch. 

I read somewhere that males have large caudal, anal and dorsal fins; again until they're fully grown that'll be difficult to see.


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## zozo (25 Jun 2017)

Me too, if i look at them and do not see a very obvious color differnce i would not know what else to look at.. And they are so darn small and the majority of the time between the dense planting or in the nooks and crannies it is difficult to keep track of them. The more perfect the tank is build for species like that the less you will see them. I have several caves in ever corner, it always takes me at least an hour of waiting if i'm lucky to do a full body count. The all over grey colred supposed female i lately didn't see for days.

If i have to go on the information out there i get the feeling the LFS owner was mistaken as well and i only have one female. Because all the others colored equaly red and blue in the few months i have them in the tank now. In fin shape i do not realy see a difference in all of them. The pectoral fins seem smaller on the female but with a closer look, it's more the color that makes the male pec fin look longer. Also the other fins, the male has this bright blue highlight stripe on the fin tips, making it stand out and appear larger. 

This is one of the 2 i mentioned above.. In doubt if it is male or female it developed more red the last few weeks, but always hangs around with the most beautifull colored one of all.. I yet didn't get a picture of. He's always in the back of the tank behind the DW. Maybe this is a girl, but not yet seen any breeding behaivor. They are just sharing territory peacefully.


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## dw1305 (26 Jun 2017)

Hi all,





zozo said:


> This is one of the 2 i mentioned above.. In doubt if it is male or female it developed more red the last few weeks, but always hangs around with the most beautifull colored one of all.. I yet didn't get a picture of.


That is definitely a male _Dario dario. _I've still never seen a female_ Dario. 
_
cheers Darrel


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## castle (26 Jun 2017)

I'm quite enjoying these fish, even if they're little gender switching shits. 

I just put in a cube of bloodworms.

I managed to get a shot of the male, he's deeply black/blue. yesterday he was red... barely ever comes out of the cave/stump - who knows what he's doing in there. He ddin't come out to feed, just to chase away Fish A and B.



 


I think this is Fish B, sub dominant male I suspect now, but doesn't chase around the little ones... not much colour either.



 

This is Fish A: she's got a belly now for sure, please jeez, let them be eggs and not over indulgence in bloodworms (I have vacuumed since this image).


 

Regardless, the tank isn't right for them, tetras are so fast on food I have to over feed to get food to them, so I am vacuuming after each feed. They're fascinating to watch hunt, they're not as slow as some websites make out, but they do take their time. Anyway, another tank is on way for them,  I'm really excited to recreate one of Amano's old crypt tanks for 'em.

You can't see it in the photos but the echinodorus palaefolius is sending out a emergent(?) leaf.


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## zozo (26 Jun 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,That is definitely a male _Dario dario. _I've still never seen a female_ Dario.
> _
> cheers Darrel



As far as what i can find all indeed points to that.. So the LFS owner also just babbles in his favor to sell.. According to him he sold me 3 females..  Got another one which still is completely grey. So maybe if i'm lucky i got only one. Can't get a pic of it yet.. It's always in a to difficult spot if i spot it. .

But as you say you never seen a female, i probably have non as well.. i realy have no idea yet.


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## zozo (26 Jun 2017)

But seeing all pictures i get the feeling we are mixing 2 species.. Or are the Blue ones actualy the same.. Some sites say Badis Badis others Dario Dario, Badis Badis bengalensis. 

But what is it it now? The red ones Dario Dario? What i got.
And the blue one Badis Badis? Which your picture seems to show..


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## dw1305 (26 Jun 2017)

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> Got another one which still is completely grey.


That is the <"one you want">.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (26 Jun 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is the <"one you want">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Thanks!.. I'll keep my camera ready and fingers croseed.. I think i got one still without any trace of red..


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## castle (26 Jun 2017)

I know we're talking about slightly different fish, but I have two young'uns who show clear red in their bodies, might as well have a Man U shirt on. It's the older ones which are a little more tricky to get right - for me anyway.

Still, 3 certain males, 1 probable male, 2 unsures.


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## zozo (27 Jun 2017)

Darn these tiny fish are hard to get in focus in open swimming space.  But this is my alledged and hopefully female Dario Dario.
The other 2 meanwhile developed some obvious reds.. This one didn't, the pics are a bit over exposed, it has that pinkish spot on it's gils and belly as shown in Darrels link.. ..






 

Yet absolutely no trace of reds..


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## castle (27 Jun 2017)

There is some pretty nasty fin nipping in the tank now; one fish in particular has lost almost half it's caudal fin. They're in a fair size tank 90x40cm footprint, with a lot of wood in it too. Having witnesses the alpha male chase down fish B, yeah, they're way more territorial than info I've read online.


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## zozo (2 Jul 2017)

And both together.. They go along pretty well.. Funny is at the other side of the tank i got 2 males making out together in the same territory and seem to get along pretty good. But this seems to be a pair, boy and girl.. Not yet witnesses breeding behaivor.


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## castle (27 Sep 2017)

Minor update, bitter sweet.

I do have a female, as I have confirmed eggs in a plastic tube/cave I made. 

The sad news is I found these eggs after I'd done my '3 monthly' deep clean of the tank, that's a 50% water change and wood scrape/pressure wash (basically take all hardscape out of tank and clean it) . Male BB looks distraught. Tank looks clean tho.


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## Costa (30 Sep 2017)

Beautiful scape if I may


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## castle (6 Jan 2018)

I just saw my first fry today, only 1... very small. Feeding freshly hatched brine shrimp, and infusoria. Very happy to have a female in the tank. Not putting my hopes up on the fry's survival, as there are 6 or 7 badis in there, and they do eat their fry.

Currently living in here, just a lot of javafern, pipes, and wood. I took down the previous scape.. great for farlowella, not ideal for badis.


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## castle (21 Jan 2018)

Seen this behaviour a lot, but first time having phone nearby. Badis, especially this female seem to be into very small snails. I started crushing a few every couple of days, and this headstandin is now quite common.


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