# My litlle 250L garden.



## thomas.bham (4 Aug 2010)

Hi everyone

My name's Tom, I live in Birmingham.
Before I start, I apologize for my poor English 
I would like to present my  litlle baby.
I set up this tank about 6 months ago and since then had a minor problem with plants conditions but now most of the problems have been solved especially with help of spider72 .

The tank is 250litre 100cm x 40x  60

Lighting: 3 x t5 39W Philips 865 and 1 x arcadia  39W / 9h
filtration: external aquaone 1000, internal 750l/h
Heater: 200W /temp 25 C
fert: macro -dry salts, micro- liquid micro intermag
Co2: 1,5kg bottle, ceramic diffuser and fluval 105 with bio-balls inside as  reactor. 
I dose fert by improved EI method

All comments are welcome


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## Nelson (4 Aug 2010)

that looks great   .


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## glenn (4 Aug 2010)

yeah nice tank, can you give us a plant list?


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## Gill (4 Aug 2010)

very nice, as those smokey blue angels i spy


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## thomas.bham (4 Aug 2010)

Yeah, of course

Ludwigia inclinata Cuba
Progostemon Stellatus
Rotala Rotundifolia (I think so)
Rotala Green
Blyxa Japonica
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Anubias barteri nana

hope I didn't miss anything


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## thomas.bham (4 Aug 2010)

Gill said:
			
		

> very nice, as those smokey blue angels i spy



I don't know to be honest, but had to get rid of them, since they have grew up they starded fight each other.
By the way, I still have one yellow angel, if anybady interested, I would give it for free.


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## alzak (5 Aug 2010)

Hi Thomas

nice to see Your tank on this forum anyway great healthy looking tank


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## zoon (5 Aug 2010)

Thats impressive, wish I could produce something like that!


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## thomas.bham (5 Aug 2010)

Thanks you all for nice comments.


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## thomas.bham (5 Aug 2010)

zoon said:
			
		

> Thats impressive, wish I could produce something like that!



thanks mate, I am sure that you will do one day, with our help as I did.


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## verchap (5 Aug 2010)

the rotala mid ground is superb, nice one


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## neelhound (6 Aug 2010)

That tank is gorgeous, but have you considered trying the red plant(rotala?) at the back behind everything? It's just an idea, it looks great as it is


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## johnson529 (6 Aug 2010)

tank looks great, well done


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## thomas.bham (6 Aug 2010)

neelhound said:
			
		

> That tank is gorgeous, but have you considered trying the red plant(rotala?) at the back behind everything? It's just an idea, it looks great as it is



Thanks. I think you mean about Ludwigia repens (red one) just behind the cuba and rolata green and ratundifolia.
Roughly every 2 weeks i have to cut out in half most od the plants, and i don't like throw them away, so I always try to put them in free space in the tank.


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## neelhound (6 Aug 2010)

oh i have a ludwigia too, i've run out of spots and whenever i throw it away i feel sad, i'll probably start giving it away on here


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## spider72 (6 Aug 2010)

Hi mate. I know this tank from somewhere    .


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## thomas.bham (6 Aug 2010)

neelhound said:
			
		

> oh i have a ludwigia too, i've run out of spots and whenever i throw it away i feel sad, i'll probably start giving it away on here



it a good idea, but i've tried it before on different websides and always plants had time to rot in the bag before anyone replied


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## bumcrumb (6 Aug 2010)

lovely mate, thought id pop by and take a look at this tank of yours  
once again sorry for sat but ill see you on sunday or other,


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## thomas.bham (6 Aug 2010)

bumcrumb said:
			
		

> lovely mate, thought id pop by and take a look at this tank of yours
> once again sorry for sat but ill see you on sunday or other,



you are welcome,  take shrimps with you


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## laimyzaz (8 Aug 2010)

Very impresive and healthy looking tank


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## thomas.bham (8 Aug 2010)

spider72 said:
			
		

> Hi mate. I know this tank from somewhere    .



Really?!


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## thomas.bham (8 Aug 2010)

Hi guys.

up-date.

1.





By thomasbham at 2010-08-08





By thomasbham at 2010-08-08


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## bumcrumb (9 Aug 2010)

hi again mate, love the tank, i can see them shrimps been very happy in there.
i gave you small ones as they dont have a long lifespan and giving you older ones would have been a waste unless they have another batch of babies lol.
if you ever need anymore in the future let me know


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## thomas.bham (9 Aug 2010)

As you noticed I had to put your shrimps to small plastic box
I am going to set up separate little tank for them tomorrow, and let then grow up safely.


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## zrebak82 (27 Aug 2010)

beautiful, healthy aquarium!!
greetings to spider72


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## spider72 (28 Aug 2010)

zrebak82 said:
			
		

> greetings to spider72



Hello mate  . Nice to see you on this forum.


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## wearsbunnyslippers (29 Aug 2010)

really nice tank! everything looks so green and healthy...


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## Mark Evans (29 Aug 2010)

The tank's certainly in a happy place. Great plant health, and good control over their appearance.


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## thomas.bham (31 Aug 2010)

Hi,
Just came back from holiday and I found this mess




By thomasbham at 2010-08-31




By thomasbham at 2010-08-31


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## spider72 (31 Aug 2010)

Oh Jezz, what a terrible mess   .
Some people could kill for mess like yours  .
Don't you have a scissors or what :?:


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## dw1305 (1 Sep 2010)

Hi all,


> ........ Some people could kill for mess like yours


My thoughts exactly, in fact I like the "after holiday" one slightly more.
cheers Darrel


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## thomas.bham (1 Sep 2010)

spider72 said:
			
		

> Oh Jezz, what a terrible mess   .
> Some people could kill for mess like yours  .
> Don't you have a scissors or what :?:



This is partly your fault Spider72 
Since you helped me with fertilization, now I need to trim the plants every week


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## spider72 (2 Sep 2010)

Damn me


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## thomas.bham (18 Sep 2010)

Hi there

I've got some Blyxa japonixa 1 bush= 2f
Hemianthus micranthemoides about 5inches ball=3f
kuba=free
All plants have been trimmed yesterday, so hurry...
I prefer collection in person (Birmingham). I can post it but I can't guarantee that they won't rot.


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## thomas.bham (26 Sep 2010)

all sold.

I have got same blyxa left.
If anybody want it, I'll give it for free.
Collection in person (B'ham)
Please answer quickly on priv.


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## thomas.bham (16 Dec 2011)

Hi All
Over one year has gone, since my last post.
In that time i moved and unfortunately I have got different water supplier (South staffs water).
My tap water is really awful.It has Gh 9 (german) and alot NO3 over 20mg/l all this cause my problems.

Mainly I have got problem with P.stellatus which burn apicals roughly every week, also their bottom old leaves gets holes and disintegrate. The same thing with leaves has Nymphaea lotus.
Other plants grow ok, not perfectly but acceptably for me.
(Photos below)

My second problem is algae issue, algae’s grow everywhere specially on anubias leaves.

Have anybody of you guys had any problem like that?
Do any of you maybe live in Black Country in West Midlands and possibly has the same water supplier?


TANK


ALGAE


HOLES IN THE LEAVES




P. STELLATUS APICALS




LOTUS




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Water parameters:
230L (net)
Temp. 25-26C
Ph 6,5
Gh 9
Kh 8
No3 20 (from tap water only)
Light 4x39W t5 (8 hours)
Water change 50% weekly.

Fertilizers dosage:
K= 7grams /week
Mg= 10grams/week
P= 0.1gram/week
Co2=max
Micro (up to 0.5mg/l Fe)


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## spyder (17 Dec 2011)

I'm in Rugeley and also supplied by S.S.W. I've not done any tests on it except for GH/KH. It was one of those 2 in 1 kits where you add reagent and follow colour changes. I gave up after 25 drops and not reaching the 2nd result.

Holes in older leaves are often down to co2 problems, so more co2, better flow or less light.


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## Gary Nelson (17 Dec 2011)

Very nice that, looks nice and clean and very healthy


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## thomas.bham (17 Dec 2011)

spyder said:
			
		

> I'm in Rugeley and also supplied by S.S.W. I've not done any tests on it except for GH/KH. It was one of those 2 in 1 kits where you add reagent and follow colour changes. I gave up after 25 drops and not reaching the 2nd result.
> 
> Holes in older leaves are often down to co2 problems, so more co2, better flow or less light.



I haven't done any test I've just checked water parameters on their website. Have a look at it:
http://www.south-staffs-water.co.uk/you ... eports.asp
There should be your Town as well.

I have got 2 external filter with 700l/h rate, so I thing my water flow is ok, the same with CO2 level seem to me very high

I don’t know what to do now; I have never had any problems like this.


I have trimmed plants today, cleaned tank and changed over 50% of water.
I put 1kg of turf to my filter to try bring Kh level down.
I added only 7grams K2SO4 and 5grams of MgSO4 7H2O, it should make about 12ppm K and under 5ppm Mg in the tank.

PS.
i HAVE GOT FULL BAG OF BLYXA JAPONICA. ANYBODY INTERESTED???? IT IS FREE!


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## thomas.bham (12 Feb 2013)

Hi Guys, I haven't done any update for a while...



Since I moved to new house I have a different water supplier and new problems. I have epidemic of green dust algae, green spot algae, Oedogonium and some black spotty ones on anubias. Also Blyxa japonica roots are a bit rotten and end of leaves.
Lotus leaves looks bad, see on the picture.
I have tried different dosage of macro and didn't help. Currently trying high dose of K (12grams K2SO4) whic gives me 25ppm in tank

















I have tried different dosage of macro and didn't help. Currently trying high dose of K (12grams K2SO4) whic gives me 25ppm in tank

I'm planning to make restart in weekend fresh gravel some redmoor wood and dragon rock


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## LondonDragon (12 Feb 2013)

thomas.bham said:


> Currently trying high dose of K (12grams K2SO4) whic gives me 25ppm in tank


How are you dosing this? 12g in one go? Over sometime?

Your plant mass is large now, and your flow will be affected, it could all be related to bad flow and CO2 and nutrients not getting to where they need to be, you still running the same filters?


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## thomas.bham (13 Feb 2013)

Yes I dose 12g with 50% water change. But so far I haven't notice any benefits of doing this.
Still have 2 external filters aqua one 1200l/h
suply Co2 thru atomizer.
do u think I should split dosage of ferts?


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## thomas.bham (15 Feb 2013)

What do you think LondonDragon?
I am planning to restart the tank on Sunday, in the mean time I reduce the light a little bit because I had over 0.86W/L


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## LondonDragon (15 Feb 2013)

For a 250l tank you should start with the recommended dosage:

Macro:
2.90g KNO3 x 3 times a week
2.46g K2SO4 x 3 times a week
10g MgSO4 x 3 times a week

Micro:
1g Trace x 3 times a week

Dose Macro after 50% water change then alternate between Micro and Macro.

After a couple of week adjust if necessary, if you see deficiencies increase everything by 20%, monitor for two week and see again. That's how I do it and it never failed me.

Note as your plant mass grows you need to increase dosage as well and not keep it the same, CO2 needs to be tweaked also, and you have to watch out for changes in flow patterns due to plants growing in the way of flow, etc...


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## NatureBoy (16 Feb 2013)

Hi

I notice you're not adding any phosphate, I reckon you need to be...could be a phosphate limited tank at the moment. Green spot algae also backs this up as is usually a tell tale sign of too low phosphate.

cheers

Gary


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## thomas.bham (16 Feb 2013)

Do add PO4 and quite a lot, 1,2grams weekly, which gives me about 3ppm.

Any way tomorrow it is going to be very busy day as I am going to re-start my tank. This time I am planning to make some Aquascape so I will reduce mass of plants quite significantly creating some space for redmoor adn few dragon rocks.


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## NatureBoy (16 Feb 2013)

fair play, good luck with the re work and figuring out your new tapwater... I look forward to seeing the changes as your last tank was great!


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## thomas.bham (18 Feb 2013)

Hi Every one.
Restart is done.
This is the first time ever this tank is so low planted :-/
At the moment it looks like little desert 
All I know aquascaping is not a easy think i seems like I am crap.


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## thomas.bham (21 Feb 2013)

Come on guys no comments? Is it really that bad 

I started using half of my lights 2 tubes only which gives me 0.43 w/l 
a lot of co2 as always and testing new ferts from tropica.
at the moment spoted few holes in ludwigia leaves. 
Lack of K I think.


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## Tom Procko (23 Feb 2013)

whats the back center plant and also the very front plant? inbox me id be interested in a sample of you please Tom.
Many Thanks
Tom


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## tim (23 Feb 2013)

Hi Thomas, nice looking tank you have there, you could maybe post your restart as a journal, you will tend to get more views and advice in the journal section, keep the pictures coming, nice start mate


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## Tom Procko (23 Feb 2013)

how do I start a journal? :/


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## Tom Procko (23 Feb 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Macro: 2.90g KNO3 x 3 times a week 2.46g K2SO4 x 3 times a week 10g MgSO4 x 3 times a week Micro: 1g Trace x 3 times a week


 

what are these chemicals and could you tell me where to buy them, view my tank, its 200l gimme some details please i want mine to grow good  

can you tell me what they do, why i need them.
perks off having them. 
thank you
Tom


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## tim (23 Feb 2013)

Tom Procko said:


> how do I start a journal? :/


Well you can start a new topic in the journal section or message one of the moderators and this thread could be moved there


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## thomas.bham (23 Feb 2013)

Tom Procko said:


> whats the back center plant and also the very front plant? inbox me id be interested in a sample of you please Tom. Many Thanks Tom


 
that is P. Stellatus and on the front there are blyxa bushes and a bit of  Hemianthus micranthemoide.




Tom Procko said:


> what are these chemicals and could you tell me where to buy them, view my tank, its 200l gimme some details please i want mine to grow good



These are dry salts which we use in EI method.
You can get then from here: FluidsensorOnline.com, The Nutrient Solution

I ran my tank last few years using EI method but at the moment trying dosing TPN+


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## markj (2 Mar 2013)

nice looking tank


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Hi guys,
Update after 3 weeks.
I have been using tropica Ferts premium, and I am not impress so far.
I haven't noticed any significant deficiencies on plants really. Only new leave of cryps seems to be a bit bright green and Eleocharis sp 'mini' doesn't at all..
Main problem are algaes, I noticed Green Dust Algae, some spot ones and Oedogonium.
I started with recommended dosage of 25ml for 250L tank, and last two weeks I increased dosage to 35ml.

Do you know guys what cause this?

WHOLE TANK





Java fern Oedogonium?







Crypts green algaes







Cryptocoryne (new leaves)




Eleocharis sp. 'mini'


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## Ady34 (10 Mar 2013)

Hi Thomas,
i think its looking pretty nice actually, with some promising new growth from the hairgrass and crypts and a vibrant and fresh feel with nice colour contrasts in planting, hardscape, substrate and fish choices 
The old crypt leaves will most likely be emersed form so will not take on the submersed form and thus only the new leaves will look as they should. You could try trimming off some of the older leaves if you dont like the look of them, this will encourage more new growth. Some of your issues could be due to the fertilisers, not directly, but because you are using only the Tropica Premium type which does not contain the two main macro ingredients of N & P. High tech tanks will need these supplements to flourish so maybe consider the Tropica Specialised fertiliser to get the best from your set up. Tropica fertilisers are great in my opinion, but when cost is an issue, then EI is the way to go as you already know 
The oedogonium algae may actually be the start of staghorn, and if your gda is limited to your rocks then a toothbrush and a bit of elbow grease will bring them back up......i suspect using a fertiliser containing all the macro and micro elements may well help rid you of these issues along with good tank maintenance 
I notice you had started with only half your lighting abvailable of only 2 tubes, however if these are t5 ho and/or have reflectors this may still be high lighting in the early stages, especially if you are not supplementing macro fertilisers. If you feel c02 and distribution are optimised, i would think most of your issues could be attributed to your fertilisers, however you could try further reducing your lighting intensity too.
.....oh, and i think you should start a journal up 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> The old crypt leaves will most likely be emersed form


 
Thank you for reply, Crypts coming from my old set up, they aren't emersed form.




Ady34 said:


> Some of your issues could be due to the fertilisers, not directly, but because you are using only the Tropica Premium type which does not contain the two main macro ingredients of N & P


 
Sorry I wrote wrongly about fert, I do use Tropica specialized which contain N and P
Sorry by that.



Ady34 said:


> I notice you had started with only half your lighting abvailable of only 2 tubes, however if these are t5 ho and/or have reflectors this may still be high lighting in the early stages, especially if you are not supplementing macro fertilisers.



Yes, I reduced lightening to half because I was hoping to create low maintenance tank with slow growing plants 
I cant be bother trim the plants every two weeks 
At the moment I use two t5 39W tubes (865 and 880) with reflector, so do you think it still can be to much?
So should I replace one of them with arcadia grolux for instant?
Or leave it how it is now and remove reflectors only?

Will Elecharis grow with even less light?


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## Ady34 (10 Mar 2013)

thomas.bham said:


> Thank you for reply, Crypts coming from my old set up, they aren't emersed form.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


mmm, well i got most of that wrong then 

with regards the lighting, i wouldnt worry too much about the spectrum, 2 x 39w also doesnt seem excessive on a 250l tank, but you could try going back to basics and removing the reflectors to help ensure good c02 availability.....that way any fert limitations will also be minimised due to slower growth and resultant reduced demands. Algae also indicates a high light issue compared with c02 availability....it sounds stupid, but even your light coloured substrate (of which there is still quite a lot uncovered) may be exaggerating your lighting by reflecting light back into the tank rather than absorbing it like darker ones.....i think im right in saying that....but dont quote me 
How do you dose your fertilisers, all in one dose or do you split it into daily doses? I always found i had to at least double dose (daily doses) with the old tropica tpn+, so maybe these new ferts are the same and there is still a shortfall with your current set up....although you stated above that there are no particular deficiencies so maybe this is less likely the issue.....its most likely a light and c02 relationship.
I see you have moved away from spraybar configuration, is there a reason for this? 
Cheerio,
Ady


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## Tom Procko (10 Mar 2013)

i had this to start off with and i read that if u put loads of little plants in like cobomba just let it float because its such a fast growing plant it will require loads of nutritens so that stuff u have growing wont have no nutrients to grow


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> with regards the lighting, i wouldnt worry too much about the spectrum, 2 x 39w also doesnt seem excessive on a 250l tank, but you could try going back to basics and removing the reflectors to help ensure good c02 availability.....that way any fert limitations will also be minimised due to slower growth and resultant reduced demands. Algae also indicates a high light issue compared with c02 availability....it sounds stupid, but even your light coloured substrate (of which there is still quite a lot uncovered) may be exaggerating your lighting by reflecting light back into the tank rather than absorbing it like darker ones.....i think im right in saying that....but dont quote me How do you dose your fertilisers, all in one dose or do you split it into daily doses? I always found i had to at least double dose (daily doses) with the old tropica tpn+, so maybe these new ferts are the same and there is still a shortfall with your current set up....although you stated above that there are no particular deficiencies so maybe this is less likely the issue.....its most likely a light and c02 relationship. I see you have moved away from spraybar configuration, is there a reason for this? Cheerio, Ady



You are quite right about colour of substrate...I was worried that 2 tube could give not enough light but, now I can't see much difference with the brightness I had before.
First 2 weeks I was dousing daily 4 pomps now 7.
I removed spray bar temporary, because when I used it I caused
a typhoon in tank, probably because I have got not much plants now.
With regards the Co2 I'm dousing exactly the same as I was dousing before with double light and a lot more mass of plants.
It would be really hard for me to believe that I have got not enough co2, anymore of co2  would kill my fish :-/

I look at tropica web and there are some sample of various tanks (layouts) run on tropica ferts. All of them use huge amounts of ferts compared to recommended dosage .
For example, tank 100l they add 25ml of premium and 25ml of specialized.

What do you think about it?
If I had to use that much of it, then probably I will make one myself using dry salts.


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Tom Procko said:


> i had this to start off with and i read that if u put loads of little plants in like cobomba just let it float because its such a fast growing plant it will require loads of nutritens so that stuff u have growing wont have no nutrients to grow


 
You know what, my the fastest growing plant in the tank which is P. Stellatus is growing very well,which surprises me very much.


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## Ady34 (10 Mar 2013)

thomas.bham said:


> I look at tropica web and there are some sample of various tanks (layouts) run on tropica ferts. All of them use huge amounts of ferts compared to recommended dosage . For example, tank 100l they add 25ml of premium and 25ml of specialized. What do you think about it? If I had to use that much of it, then probably I will make one myself using dry salts.


thats why i swapped to ei....it was costing me a fortune 



thomas.bham said:


> With regards the Co2 I'm dousing exactly the same as I was dousing before with double light and a lot more mass of plants. It would be really hard for me to believe that I have got not enough co2, anymore of co2 would kill my fish :-/


its crazy, but every tank is different.....for exampe i run my lighting unit 13" above the water surface on my current set up yet still suffer c02 related issues...my old set up ran with the light directly above the water surface, i had some issues, but growth was good generally . Very small differences in flow, light, co2 have big impacts. If your on the limit of co2 for your fauna you could try supplementing with liquid carbon products to boost carbon availability.  
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> its crazy, but every tank is different.....for exampe i run my lighting unit 13" above the water surface on my current set up yet still suffer c02 related issues...my old set up ran with the light directly above the water surface, i had some issues, but growth was good generally . Very small differences in flow, light, co2 have big impacts. If your on the limit of co2 for your fauna you could try supplementing with liquid carbon products to boost carbon availability. Cheerio, Ady.



Ok then, I will start dosing carbon.
How much TPN did you have to use?

I am going to make "all in one" using receipt  from James' planted tank and see what happens.


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## Ady34 (10 Mar 2013)

thomas.bham said:


> How much TPN did you have to use?


in the end i was dosing 15ml per day 
extra water changes and filter cleans never go amiss when you get a touch of algae too....


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## thomas.bham (10 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> in the end i was dosing 15ml per day


wooow 

So with my plant mass and light, how much you reckon should I dose it?


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## Ady34 (10 Mar 2013)

well, i think if your not suffering deficiencies then as you are now is fine....just increase with plant mass....to be sure its not nutrient related at least double dose recommended values if your wallet can take it 
Did the algae on the plants come with transferred plants or is it new?  Are your c02 levels good for lights on, stable throughout photoperiod? most algaes are co2 and or light related, theres a good guide here:
James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## thomas.bham (11 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> well, i think if your not suffering deficiencies then as you are now is fine....just increase with plant mass....to be sure its not nutrient related at least double dose recommended values if your wallet can take it
> Did the algae on the plants come with transferred plants or is it new?  Are your c02 levels good for lights on, stable throughout photoperiod? most algaes are co2 and or light related, theres a good guide here:
> James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


No all algaes are new.
Co2 turns on 2 hours before light switch on and it turns of 1 hour before light switch off.
lightening time is 8 hours.


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## thomas.bham (11 Mar 2013)

Ok Ady34, I've done some diy tpn+ from james'plantedtank web. 
I just mixed micro and macro separately.
I am just wondering whether I should dose standard dosage of macro and increase dosage of micro only?


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## Ady34 (11 Mar 2013)

Im guessing you mixed them seperately as you had no ascorbic acid or potassium sorbate available to do an all in one?
Personally, I'd double the dosage of both and see how you go. I would also remove your reflectors. If you have the patience it may be worth only implementing one change at a time for a couple of week period to see if there is any change due to each variable.....ferts, light, added liquid carbon? I'm not sure on the science/methodology, maybe Clive, ceg4048 could help if you fancy trying to pinpoint your issue.
Cheerio,
Ady


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## thomas.bham (12 Mar 2013)

Ady34 said:


> Im guessing you mixed them seperately as you had no ascorbic acid or potassium sorbate available to do an all in one?


 
Yes you're right 
But I've ordered them today 




Ady34 said:


> If you have the patience it may be worth only implementing one change at a time for a couple of week period to see if there is any change due to each variable.....ferts, light, added liquid carbon?



I will do that way then.

So first change will be new adding new diy ferts.

Cheers
Tom


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## thomas.bham (14 Mar 2013)

Ady34,
I received E202 and E300, added to Micro and almost instantly changed colour from brown to olive green. is that ok?

Do you know, when you make "all in one" does  it matter which order you add ingredients?
Cheers
Tom


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## Ady34 (14 Mar 2013)

thomas.bham said:


> Ady34,
> I received E202 and E300, added to Micro and almost instantly changed colour from brown to olive green. is that ok?
> 
> Do you know, when you make "all in one" does it matter which order you add ingredients?
> ...


i have to be honest Thomas, i dont know.....maybe post the question in one of the sponsor forums, or ask the seller.......ive never made an all in one myself


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## tim (14 Mar 2013)

Hi Thomas, I've been making DIY all in one mix for over a year now and I've always just picked up whichever bag out of my dry salts box added to my bottle then warm water, never any particular order, and always had the same results  and also always nice shade of green


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## thomas.bham (15 Mar 2013)

tim said:


> Hi Thomas, I've been making DIY all in one mix for over a year now and I've always just picked up whichever bag out of my dry salts box added to my bottle then warm water, never any particular order, and always had the same results and also always nice shade of green


 
Thanks, I was just wondering if you put first Kh2po4, then trace and at the end e202 and e300 wouldn't phosphate damage the iron before putting preserves.
Can you tell me which repice did you use to make all in one?
And does it work well?
didn't you have to add extra iron, K or Mg?

Any way,
I've done 50% water change and put spraybar back
eleocharis mini doesn't grow at all.
All leaves getting brown. I don't have clue why?

Cheers
Tom.


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## tim (15 Mar 2013)

Hi Thomas , I use recipie from James planted tank page recipie number 3, I put all the salts and preserves in the bottle then add water and I think the phosphate and iron only reacts in solution (water) which the preservatives solve so never had a problem doing it this way, mix works well IMO sometimes I add a little extra iron to see if it improves reds but as of yet my plants all stay more green, the mix contains k & mg so I find no need for extra, from what I've read haven't grown it myself yet eleocharis mini is slow growing and shouldn't need trimming but stick with it, it is a lovely compact grass, brown on leaves could be diatoms possibly, keep up with water changes in my experience sometimes one a week just isn't enough, I've been carrying out at least 3 a week on the 90 cm tank in my sig since setup, hard work but if I don't I start to see algae issues, hope this helps


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## thomas.bham (26 Mar 2013)

hi guys
Little update.
I took the reflector of, it seems to me a bit dark now, but I had been always using a lot light maybe that is way.
I started using diy PMDD+PO4 double dosage and diy micro almost triple dosage.
On top of that I dose a lot of co2 (water looks like sparkling water)
I put spray bar back too.
Plants doesn't show any deficiencies in my opinion.
Problem doesn't want disappear, green algaes, and some hairy one still present.





Blyxa looks pretty good except old leave infected by hairy algaes.






Java looks not too bad, leave are a bit to bright.
Should I give more micro?






ludwigia seems to me very well. Am I right?






Eleocharis sp. 'mini' is in hibernation




Any suggestion lads?


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## thomas.bham (29 Mar 2013)

No interest at all :-/


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## tim (29 Mar 2013)

Thomas once algae appears you need to remove as much as you can whilst trying to resolve the issues that caused it plenty of large water changes trimming affected plants filter cleans etc etc lower lighting has always helped reduce my algae issues hope this helps mate.


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## LondonDragon (30 Mar 2013)

On a previous post you have the lights on for 8 hours, which is way too much, reduce the lighting by a couple of hours, you need to ensure that you are getting enough CO2 into the tank too, bring the CO2 on an hour earlier and turn it off an hour before lights off, you will save an hour of CO2 anyway.
Like tim mentions, get rid of the algae infested leaves and you could also supplement the tank with Liquid Carbon until you get things under control.

How do you mix your ferts?


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## thomas.bham (30 Mar 2013)

Thank you Tim and LondonDragon for your reply.
I know that co2 issue is the most common problem in planted tanks but it makes me wonder that the amount of co2 I dose now i exactly the same as I was dosing in a past with a lot more light and massive plant mass.
I had some issues with algaes bud not as bad as now.
I have just ran out with Liquid Carbon and I am waiting for some more after easter.
The algaes I have got now are different to the ones I had in a past.
I even started considering to come back to EI method but I am not sure that with low light and low amount of plants the concentration of nutrition won't be to much?
According to http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm my algaes looks like bluegreen ones, but I am not sure about it as I have never seen any of them before.









Why ceg4048 keeps quiet?


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## tim (30 Mar 2013)

Hi Thomas bga is a bugger to get rid of I think it's stated excess light causes this algae. I had this a while ago and I carried out excessive substrate cleaning and weekly filter cleans along with a slight increase in nitrate to my all in one mix has resolved the issue ( so far ) from the image it possibly looks like GSA though rather than bga which I think can be triggered by low po4 as well as low co2 so if your sure your co2 is optimum for the light provided maybe increase the po4 content in your all in one mix. Hope this helps mate keep at it you will resolve your issues you could try to pm ceg if you want his opinion on it mate.


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## thomas.bham (30 Mar 2013)

tim said:


> from the image it possibly looks like GSA though rather than bga


You are probably right about that,  it is confusing becouse they are very dark green and layer is quite thick on leaves

My idea was to dose the ferts using PMDD method but large amount of no3 in my tap water breaks everything I think.
20 ml's of my DIY 'all in one' gives  1,4ppm no3, 1,6ppm K, 0.2ppm Mg and 0.4ppm of po4 and this is what I dose daily.
So po4 last was 2,4ppm which is more than enough I think?


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## thomas.bham (20 Nov 2013)

Hi everyone.
For the last few months I have been trying sort my problem with algaes out but unfortunately without any improvements.
I tried various doses of ferts and less light, maximum of CO2 plus overdosing easycarbo. All your suggestions I tried.
And it simply couldn't notice any positive changes apart of lower electricity bill 
I am really desperate now and i have even started consider to give up with planted tanks and switch to Malawi one, so you can imagine how frustrated I am.

Let me remind that before I moved to new house in different area which is covered by different water supplier I didn't have a problem whatsoever, and bear in mind that I had exactly the same light level, filtration and co2
I used EI method and all I had to do was weekly trimming of plants.
You can see tank at the beginning of my topic.

Before I decide to do such a desperate move to switch to Malawi I am going to try two more things.
1. go back to orginal EI method and slowly increase light level
2. buy RO filter ( where I lived tap water was very soft 2 german degrees)

Or maybe you guys know what else i can try.


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## thomas.bham (22 Nov 2013)

really no one???


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Nov 2013)

Lower your lighting intensity/ period substantially, not forgetting to wind back co2 aswell.


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## thomas.bham (23 Nov 2013)

At the beginning I was running 4 t5 with reflectors, at the moment I lowered to the minimum which is 2 tubes without reflectors. I reduced period from 10 to 6 hours.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## george dicker (2 Mar 2015)

hi, i was wondering what u keep your co2 at, im in the process of raising mine from 20 to 35 mg/l cause im struggling with plant growth


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## thomas.bham (19 Mar 2015)

Hi George, I've been keeping co2 always at the highest level possible. But at the same time I make sure that there is plenty of oxygen.
To be honest I changed whole  method of running my tank. Simply I can't use EI method because it does't work for me.
The main difference between EI and pmdd method is that in EI you dose standard amount of macro and micro and then you have adjust other things like amount of light, have right amount of plant, have right type of fast growing plants and finally the most difficult thing have suitable tab water for water change.
In PMDD method you have your conditions and then you're adjusting dosage of macro and micro elements.
Few year ago where I used to live I was lucky to have a perfect tab water for EI and luckily I managed to put right amount and type of plants with appropriate power of light. Unfortunately now my tab water is terrible and even with mixing 50/50 with ro water I couldn't cope with it, hence the change....


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