# ... and back to low tech



## parotet

Hi all

This is my 24 liters cube that I have used during the last year to learn about aquatic plants growing. It has been my first tank for plants and I grew algae, I grew plants poorly... then I suddenly discovered UKAPS and things went much better. I learnt to use ferts, I tried liquid carbon, I tried DIY CO2 with yeast… and I have finally decided to come back again to the low tech approach. The reason is that I only have time to maintain one high tech tank (the one called [HASHTAG]#2in[/HASHTAG] the journal’s section. Here’s the link:
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/2.30758/


Some pictures of the past scape, in that case enriched with liquid carbon…





and the current scape, only 3 weeks old. Strict low tech, no liquid C at all:









I introduced a lot of cheap and fast stem plants (like Egeria densa) and reinforced other previously existing (like Limnophila sessiliflora) because the last setup was with DIY C02 and I wanted to avoid an algae bloom during the transition to low tech. Light has been reduced using 3 plastic sheets attached to the LED lamp. I also added a branch of Cistus populifolius, nice red color, to add a bit of volumen and texture.

This will be probably a jungle scape and the final plants will be the ones that will grow better or faster. The aim is not to use the scissors very much. For the moment I have a mixture of plants used during the different scapes: Hydrocotyle tripartite Japan, Christmas moss, Java fern, Ludwigia sp., Egeria densa, Rotala sp., Limnophila sessiliflora, Limnophila aromatica, Hygrophila polysperma, Staurogyne repens and Cryptocoryne willisii… who will be the winner?

I am also using it as a breeding tank for endlers (with some sakura and local shrimps). One lucky guy is enjoying the presence of two beautiful females, but if he wants to survive he will have to eat more instead of… well, you all know what I mean.

Jordi


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## Edvet

Nice and jungly, just the way i like


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## parotet

Hi all

I found this morning 9 endler fry gently swimming in the tank. You can see on the previous posts some pictures of the parents (there were just two females and one male in the tank). I have read that for endlers you don't have to take special care as parents don't usually eat the fry. In my case I am not specially worried about loosing some of them, I have only been able to count 9 but there are probably more... and I think the other female has also a big round belly. Regarding the food I was going to crush some flakes, that's all. Will this be enough to raise the fry?

Jordi[DOUBLEPOST=1400747550][/DOUBLEPOST]The parents... they love taking a sun bath very early in the morning, just a few minutes but they seem very special for them
https://www.flickr.com/photos/119257234@N07/14056547209/


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## sciencefiction

parotet said:


> Regarding the food I was going to crush some flakes, that's all. Will this be enough to raise the fry?


 
Yes, crush flakes, or crushed pellets, whatever you have. I used to give mine boiled egg yolk as well which they love but it's very messy. The fry won't be long lining up with the adults for food. 
I love endlers. I have a nearly 3 years of age endler/guppy hybrid female still enjoying life to full force.   Her tail got colour(electric green) only after the first year and a half, up till then she was colourless.  I presume that was from her mother who was a yellow sunrise guppy though not sure where the green came from.  Her and a male guppy are the only ones surviving from the last bunch of fry I had, the rest kicked the bucket one by one but I am surprised that these two are still going strong. The male is in a platy only tank and he's happy chasing them around. The female is also in a female platy only tank and she thinks she's one of them.


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## parotet

For the moment the fry is not interested on the crashed flakes, moreover adults are much more active and get the food first. Another question... As you can see the tank is planted, there is plenty of moss, I even leave dead shrimplets there as a source of proteins, infusoria, etc. it is not exactly a dirt tank but will the fry look for the food for themselves? I will have to leave home for some days and I'm not sure if the rest of the family will be so patient to feed the fry.

Jordi


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## sciencefiction

They'll look for the food themselves, don't worry.  If the fry are young they won't come up yet until they figure it's safe to come up. If it's a mature tank there surely is something for them to eat. If it's scarce on food the strongest will live which is what you want.
A few months ago I exported a newborn platy fry into a shrimp tank via a dead leaf. I didn't even feed it powdered food. I fed the shrimp their granules and still do. That fry is now a big platy.[DOUBLEPOST=1400753542][/DOUBLEPOST]However, with that said it's best if they are fed several times daily and water quality is good as they'll grow way faster. I've had endlers almost fully colour up in 3 weeks!! with heavy feeding and water changing.


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## parotet

Hi all

Quite a lot of time since the last update… this is due to the fact that I’ve been fighting against brown diatoms. I don’t want to create another long discussion about them but I will share with you how I’ve managed to recover from them. At the beginning I was blaming the light (see posts above, I thought there was too much) but I finally learnt that my light was actually low for the tank and brown diatoms patches appeared everywhere, both in the shade and on the leaves that were just under the lamp. Then I tried to change the ferts’ dosing, and I went from high dosing to no dosing, but apart from some whitish leaves (N deficiency) nothing really happened. And then I finally realized that it could be my filter. This Eheim nano 24l set comes with a corner filter that is great in the sense that the outflow let you ripple the surface and the inlet is a large and coarse sponge with a tiny bioball box behind. It is a perfect filter for a shrimp tank, with low suction, quiet flow but not very good for densely planted tanks. The small debris from my little jungle got attached to the sponge and it needed to be cleaned once or twice a week. This was not a problem, the problem was that due to the filter design, I had to take it out of the tank to clean the sponge, but doing this meant spreading all the debris in the tank. The worse is that this happened when taking the filter out of the tank but also when switching the filter on once it was cleaned (made quite a lot of research and other users report also this issue). Therefore I needed 2 or 3 50% water changes a week, and this way I realized for the first time how diatoms were disappearing. My guess is that too much organics were causing brown diatoms to do very well in my mature tank.

Finally I decided to upgrade the filter (external JBL e401 Greenline… great filter IMO) with significant cross-cutting benefits: more room in the tank, more flow, more bacteria surface and more filter turnover. Et voilà… brown diatoms disappeared.
Now that everything seems to do well I have bought 4 sparkling gouramis… lovely fish, I can spend hours watching them and this week I will move the female endlers and fry to the terrace mini pond. A short clip...



Jordi


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## Bhu

Sweet Jordi! Better than a lot of people's high tech


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## parotet

Thanks Bhu, really easy plants but there is no need to use difficult ones to enjoy a tank. Now while I'm waiting for the background to grow, I'm getting in love with the sparkling gouramis, I think they are getting adapted to this jungly miniature very well (although I recognize that the daily dose of alive daphnia is helping quite a lot). Awesome little fish

Jordi


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## Bhu

Lovely big round bellied female guppies too! Stunning little tank...


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## roadmaster

You have done well with the tank.


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## parotet

Rainy afternoon... had some fun with my camera


Full tank shot


Limnophila sessiliflora from above


One of the four sparkling gouramis...


Hygrophila corymbosa and Heteranthera zosterifolia


Sparkling gouramis under floating plants


Heteranthera zosterifolia pearling after water change (still pearling after 8 hours!)

Jordi


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## Samuran

Jordi, this is ridiculous! 

What substrate are you using please? Amazing low tech!


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## parotet

Hi Samuran, thank you!

The substrate is JBL Manado, not my preferred one (although I have no good reasons to justify why. Maybe the color...) but it was the only one I knew at that time... It was my first contact with planted tanks two years ago. There's no nutritive substrate underneath, but I think in the future for low techs I will use Tropica substrate set (bottom layer plus gravel) or any of the enriched substrates (Aquasoil, Oliver Knott, Tropica complete). My guess is that you can simplify fertilization issues quite a lot in low techs by having some nutrients in the substrate or slowly released from it

Jordi


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## nayr88

Jordi I really like this, ideal little back burner tank. Really well done here.

Only part that I could see that need growing in is the front lawn area, but it is hard achieve in low tech. Unless you did a moss carpet??


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## parotet

Good idea the moss carpet.... For the moment I was letting the tank do by itself 

Jordi


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## nayr88

Jordi - which light are you now using.? And what are you dosing now?


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## DivZero

Looking great Jordi. Especially like the floating plant with the roots!


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## parotet

nayr88 said:


> Jordi - which light are you now using.? And what are you dosing now?


Hi, regarding fertilization I'm using in this tank the Duckweed Index invented by Darrel (aka dw1305) here in UKAPS. I use Lemna minor as floater because when I've tried Limnobium and Phyllanthus fluitans it didn't work (too large for my high surface flow, they turn upside down and don't like to be disturbed). Very easy method, you just have to add a squirt of whatever fert you have if the floaters look pale. I have used commercial ones such as Tropica Specialized but I'm using now a DIY 'all in one' fert from Jame's Planted Tank website.

Concerning the light, I used to have until one month ago an Eheim Led light that came with the tank (7w) but it failed. I changed it for a Blau Nano Led (11w) which has 2 dimmeable channels. Good piece of equipment and nice price, but just for a low-mid light tank. However I'm not dimming it because I keep a dense floater carpet

Jordi


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## nayr88

Why not see if one of the mods will move this into the general 'journal area' a lot more active and I wouldn't class this as low tech, more just ya standard tank, low tech to me is top soil substrate sunlight and no ferts.


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## faizal

Amazing tank Jordi.... Looking forward to seeing this progress beautifully,....


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## parotet

Hi Faizal

thanks for your interest... nothing really exciting happened since the last update, I thinned a little bit all this mess:



and now I will have to wait several weeks to have again a densely planted tank. meanwhile Java fern and Bolbitis attached to the driftwood, as well as some Cryptocoryne are progressively creating a new layout.



Nevertheless I am seriously considering to try another low tech layout in a few months (nothing planned yet but you know, I begin to think about it), but I have serious problems to tore down my tanks . This is due to different reasons: there is an exciting part part (new plants, new layout, etc.), but there is an annoying one (what to do with critters for some weeks, the endless no one wants and especially the sparkling gouramis that ate all my red cherry shrimps in this tank. I don't want to imagine them in my high tech which would be their temporary home and for them a kind of seafood feast!) but I also have a personal problem... I have a kind of Diogenes Syndrome with my aquatic plants! I add more and more to my collection but I don't want to get rid of them. That's why I just re-scape my tanks... However this time I won't just change the plants and/or hardscape because I want to change the substrate.

Jordi


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## tim

Only one thing for it jordi, another tank


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## parotet

tim said:


> Only one thing for it jordi, another tank


I've been seriously thinking (tonight) that this one could be easily transformed into a vivarium for moss and miniature orchids  and that I could buy another little tank (something like 40x25x27 cm which would be close to the volume I have, thus no need to upgrade light or filter, but with a more pleasant shape for aquascapes IMO). 
Miss says it's ok ONCE we'd have done some works in the living room and kitchen 

Jordi


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## Alexander Belchenko

parotet said:


> I have a kind of Diogenes Syndrome with my aquatic plants! I add more and more to my collection but I don't want to get rid of them.



It sounds very familiar for me. I think many planted tank enthusiasts say the same. Sometimes it's sad and blocks major re-scaping attempts. As I read - the real aquascaper should not be obsessed with plants collecting. I don't know the real cure for this desease.


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## Vinkenoog1977

Alexander Belchenko said:


> It sounds very familiar for me. I think many planted tank enthusiasts say the same. Sometimes it's sad and blocks major re-scaping attempts. As I read - the real aquascaper should not be obsessed with plants collecting. *I don't know the real cure for this desease.*



MORE aquariums!


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## parotet

Alexander Belchenko said:


> I don't know the real cure for this desease.


I will practice, promised! I will trim,  I will keep calm, I will take a deep breath and... I will throw the cuttings to the dustbin!
Oh, my... not sure if I will be able to do it or I will end up crowding another tank or making more WK!


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## Edvet

parotet said:


> I will throw the cuttings to the dustbin


 Nah just pot them up, small propagator will fit on the windowstill


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## parotet

(forgot to mention that I have also a large propagator in the terrace and several moss/emersed setups on the windowsill)


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## luckyjim

Hey Jordi, did you tear this one down in the end, or keep it going?

It really is a lovely tank.


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## Jake101

Hi Jordi, 

Beautiful low tech. Just couple of questions. 
Are you using the filter on a maximum performance?
How's your outflow arranged, since the duckweed seems to float pretty calmly?


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## parotet

luckyjim said:


> Hey Jordi, did you tear this one down in the end, or keep it going?
> 
> It really is a lovely tank.


Hi lucky jig, yes, I got myself a smaller optiwhite tank and began a new adventure... http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lava-rocks-20-liters.36715/. All the equipment has been reused, but going (back!) to high tech 
Thank you for your comments

Jordi


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## parotet

Jake101 said:


> Hi Jordi,
> 
> Beautiful low tech. Just couple of questions.
> Are you using the filter on a maximum performance?
> How's your outflow arranged, since the duckweed seems to float pretty calmly?


Hi Jake

Yes, the JBL e401 was running at full power and it is still running at full power in my smaller new tank replacing this one. It is perfect.
The outflow was the standard round pipe outflow coming with the filter and it was pointing diagonally from one of the back corners to one of the front corners, about 1 cm below the water level. I could use Lemna with no problem but Limnobium was a disaster as the surface flow was too high for maintaining this beautiful cover without making a mess

Jordi


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## Jaap

Hi Jordi

this is a no co2 tank correct? No pressurizes or liquid carbon?

Which plants did you find to grow well under these conditions?

Thanks


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## parotet

Hi Jaap

Yes, most of the time it was a non enriched tank (no pressurized CO2, no liquid carbon). During some months I used liquid carbon but I gave it up because I found no benefit in adding it. The most difficult part was to find the correct amount of light (or shade using floating plants) to get the balance I wanted: reasonable and steady growth (I like messing with plants) but keeping algae at bay. As you know this is not easy to explain.

Concerning the plants, I used a lot of them in this tank, most of them easy and even considered as "only for beginners" and underestimated by hobbyists: Limnophila sessiliflora is a winner. I know most people say it is a weed, a pain for its quick growth, too easy, etc. but to be honest it is a great plant for achieving a very high plant biomass very quickly and stabilize the tank conditions. Any of the easy Ludwigia and Hygrophila will work. Actually any of the plants you can find in the lower Tropica category will be fine.

A few tips: the more plant biomass the better, be patient (more than me) and let the plants grow and create their own little jungle... messing the substrate and hard trimming doesn't fit with low tech IMO. Manicured layouts are also very difficult in low tech, at least for me. Keep a low fish biomass but drop as many cheap shrimps (and snails) as you can, they will reproduce like pests but they will be very helpful. Rely on an enriched substrate and forget about ferts unless you find problems. "Low tech EI dosing" did not worked for me, apparently it was still too much, much more than needed for my plants. In a low tech you have time enough to react if you see any "deficiency problem", so this was my approach. 

Good luck!

Jordi


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