# Water changes...



## StevenA (19 Feb 2008)

I'm just starting an EI dosing program on my Rio 180 using dry ferts, so i shall be doing a rather large water change every week. Normally i change probably about 15-20% per week at the moment, by using a gravel cleaner with a hose and fill a bucket a few times, and then add treated water with a large watering can. Probably a bit antiquated i suppose.

I would be very interested to know what other people do with their water changes, how much, what equipment is used, any DIY methods used etc.....

Basically i need a much more efficient method to do a 40-50% change each week. Is there something i can buy or maybe make that will help?

What do you all do?


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## Joecoral (19 Feb 2008)

a very handy tool for this is a python
its basically a long length of hose with a valve on the end which you attach to a tap, turn the valve one way and turn the tap on and it sucks water out of the tank along the hose and down the sink, then turn the valve the other way and it fills the tank again (you would obsiously need to add dechlor to the tank as it was filling)
the Python brand can be a litte on the expensive side I think, but they are also DIY'd reasonably easily too

HTH
JC


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## Garuf (19 Feb 2008)

Theres a product called a python which can be used to drain and refill, i've not used one myself my tanks so small that 2 3 gallon buckets drained and refilled manually does me.


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## Ed Seeley (19 Feb 2008)

I have two 25 litre water containers and a 25 litre wine making 'bucket' and use those for the water.  Then I fill them with RO water from my barrel and pour it in!  I am looking at using a pump to pump the new water from the floor to make it even easier.

Of course if I was using tap water a python, or equivalent would be easier, if it would stretch to where my tanks are!!!


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## StevenA (19 Feb 2008)

Just had a look at the Python, anyone know where to buy it in the UK?


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## John Starkey (19 Feb 2008)

*water changes*

Hi Tourney, i change 50g every week in my 5 x 2 x 2  the way i do it is cheaper than a python, buy some pond hosing with quite a wide bore make sure you get enough so you can take out through the nearest window or door, i run mine out through the patio door and onto the garden, i then refill with the garden hose but i do this slowly, during the winter i have to also boil the kettle because the tap water is colder at this time of year, make sure you dont use hot water straight from your tap as this will contain TDS total disolved solids which is not ggod for your fish hope this helps regards john.


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## Joecoral (19 Feb 2008)

you can buy here:
http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/catalo ... roduct1032

or theres a good thread on how to DIY one here:
http://www.fishforums.net/content/forum ... IY-Python/

hope this helps
JC


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## ulster exile (19 Feb 2008)

I think the python can be bought from Aquatics Online.  Cheaper version is a Lee's Ultimate gravel vac for about Â£30, or I gather there's also a JBL In-out (bit rare in the UK AFAIK).  I looked at all of these and whilst i like the idea of one hose to do it all there are two things which niggle me...

1. water wastage whilst draining (unless your sink is lower than your tank, you must have the water running for it to syphon)
2. getting an adapter to fit a mixer tap.  I understand these things are based on US faucets, so they'll screw in to the tap, but not all UK taps are like this.  After a bad experience with a mixer tap adapter for a hose (and a very wet kitchen) I'm not keen to rely on them again.


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## TDI-line (20 Feb 2008)

I siphon out my tanks with a long rubber 1/2" hose attached to an eheim filter crook piece, and then just let the water run outside into a bucket. The bucket then catches any little shrimps and tetras that get in the way.

Filling the tank is either with buckets of prepared water lowered into the tank, or the same hose system attached to an eheim pump from some old tanks of stored water.


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## stevet (20 Feb 2008)

eds said:
			
		

> I have two 25 litre water containers and a 25 litre wine making 'bucket' and use those for the water.  Then I fill them with RO water from my barrel and pour it in!  I am looking at using a pump to pump the new water from the floor to make it even easier.
> 
> Of course if I was using tap water a python, or equivalent would be easier, if it would stretch to where my tanks are!!!



I use RO water from a water butt stored outside with a pond pump submerged in it attached to a large guage hose. I have another similar length hose for the waste water straight onto the plants in the yard.

I could not be doing with lugging x amount of buckets back and forth.

Only problem with my system is the water coming in can be bloody cold in the winter - not great for discus! So more smaller changes take place in winter.


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## Hoejay (20 Feb 2008)

I do similar for my large tank. I heat the ro / tap water mix stored in a 200 ltr water butt in the garage overnight, fitted with an aquarium heater and a sump pump  I pump it from the garage into the house/tank through garden hose. 

For draining the tank I attach a garden hose to the outlet from external canister filter where it returns into the tank and pump it straight to the garden. I attach the hose to the tank glass with a couple of spare Heater brackets on suckers.

 I do a 50% water change weekly using this method about 180 ltrs.  I can now do general maintenance  on the tank whilst I'm emptying or or filling.  I still use a bucket and siphon to take of some of the sediment. 

You can't use the pump out method whilst you clean the filter. So if I need to clean the filter I usually scrape all algae first, do  the filter then start pumping out and start tidying up the plants while the tanks emptying. By which time I'm probably down to about 50%. If I'm planting I will plant now, saves dipping my arm up to my armpits, then I start to refill.

I currently have no control on the rate of fill ( its as fast as it pumps) like you say there is a cooling element to consider especially in winter. I am finding it difficult to get the source water up to temperature overnight.  

Next step is to work out how to auto shut off the RO before I overflow on the water butt. so I can make enough & mix in advance and heat the water for longer.

I was finding maintenance a bit of a pain with buckets on this large tank. I've taken at least an hour of my maintenance time now, probably two. Still takes at least an hour and a half.

I think I got the idea for the filter pump out method off this site, its quicker than siphoning with my filter Rena xp3.


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## Ed Seeley (20 Feb 2008)

Hoejay said:
			
		

> Next step is to work out how to auto shut off the RO before I overflow on the water butt. so I can make enough & mix in advance and heat the water for longer.



You need to get an auto shut off kit!  Like this!  I've got one on my water barrel so that once I take water out it refills itself and then stops running automatically.


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## Hoejay (21 Feb 2008)

eds,

Could you post the link.

Could someone explain how you insert quotation .

Thanks


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## Hoejay (21 Feb 2008)

Hoejay said:
			
		

> eds,
> 
> Could you post the link.
> 
> ...



Der just hovered over "this" and found it tahnks also worked the quote bit out too.


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## Vase (21 Feb 2008)

Hoejay said:
			
		

> Next step is to work out how to auto shut off the RO before I overflow on the water butt. so I can make enough & mix in advance and heat the water for longer.



I used to have this problem when my main tank was set up before. I overflowed the water butt (in dining room) twice and then overflowed the tank by pumping water into it and forgetting to turn the pump off. Animal house do an alarm with a probe to alert you of rising or falling water levels. I think you can get cheaper ones elsewhere too. I'm going to get some!

For the tank this time RO/HMA is going into a tank in my main tanks cabinet. This water will be pumped out using an Eheim pump.
I was going to tee off the return from an external and use a long piece of hose to reach outside. Using taps to 'control' the t-piece. Dont know if it will work though.



			
				eds said:
			
		

> You need to get an auto shut off kit!  Like this!  I've got one on my water barrel so that once I take water out it refills itself and then stops running automatically.



eds, do you have any details of how yours is fitted/works please?


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## Ed Seeley (21 Feb 2008)

Sure guys, here are the details, and pictures!

My RO set up is in the garage.   The feed comes from the mains pipe with a self piercing fitting and a ball valve to quickly and easily turn off the unit if needed (I added this and found it a big improvement when I need to turn the unit off - far superior to the self piercing valve's).





The RO Unit situated high on the wall in the garage, this means it is out of the way and unlikely to get knocked or damaged.  The white object on the pipes to the bottom right is part of the automatic shut off valve that cuts off the feed to both the waste (green) and product (blue) water lines.




The product water feeds into a 100l slimeline barrel with a hose pour tap fitted near the base.  This tap only needs a quarter turn to turn it on like a ball valve and is quicker to turn on and off, reducing spills.




This is inside the barrel showing the float valve.  When this cutts off the product (blue) water line then it raises the pressure in the white valve by the RO Unit and cuts off the Green water pipe too, stopping the flow completely.




The Waste pipe goes outside and is buried and goes into the pond filter so no water is wasted.


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## Vase (21 Feb 2008)

Did you have to make a hole in the water butt for the float valve etc?


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## Ed Seeley (21 Feb 2008)

Vase said:
			
		

> Did you have to make a hole in the water butt for the float valve etc?



Yeah, just used a hole cutter on a power drill set to a low speed.  It was only a 20mm hole or something like that.


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## Themuleous (21 Feb 2008)

Man this must make things so much easier.  I have to run my ro unit during the day into 20lt Jerry cans.  A self filling water butt would be a vast improvement, just need to find someway of convincing the wife that I need to add a small extension to the back of the house to keep it all in 

Sam


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## Lisa_Perry75 (21 Feb 2008)

How about a shed, so "the house is more tidy" as the fish stuff will be outside now


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## TDI-line (22 Feb 2008)

Eds, do you have a water meter?


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## Ed Seeley (23 Feb 2008)

No water meter, but if they tried to switch us I'd want a discount on the sewerage fees as I've recently modified my pond filter so that all it's old water goes onto the garden meaning Severn Trent don't have to treat any of it!  Don't know how well that arguement would go down, but I know they can do/have done something similar when you first fill something like swimming pools.  And none of the waste RO water is wasted as it all goes into the pond.

Sam,
How about you put a domestic water tank somewhere to fill up with the float valve in?  Before I found the slimline water butt (which is only just over 12" wide) I was thinking of a water tank up on a strong shelving bracket out of the way.  Maybe you could fit one in somewhere?


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## sanj (10 Apr 2008)

Thanks for this post and the person who gave the link to order a python... i have two 400 litre aquariums and i am just re-entering the hobby from a 2 year absence. The thought of doing 50% water changes with 14 lite buckets was somewhat daunting.

This should help. I bought a universal adapter aswell just incase the python attatchment does not fit to the tap.


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## Superman (14 Apr 2008)

I think I have to get smarter now with filling up the tank for water changes. I can easily siphon out the water into 10 ltr buckets for the water changes it's just putting the new water back in, don't want to uproot plants and or mess up the gravel arrangement.

I am hoping that my Juwel pump will fit to the bit of hose/pipe/tubing or whatever that came with the different bits and bobs I've collected over time. Otherwise, I'll have to get another pump.


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## ulster exile (14 Apr 2008)

After seeing the Green Machine's emptying/refilling method in action, I ordered a cheapo pump off fleabay, some tubing and an eheim intake pipe (not a crook as the intake has a longer curve if you know what I mean) and it should be ready to use - I had to superglue the supplied nozzle onto the pump as it was a bit too loose, so should be cured to use tonight!  How excited am I?

The hose is long enough to reach to the water butt for emptying too so no more lugging buckets outside in the summer.

Previously, would have to change 100l of water using 4x12l B&Q buckets from which the handles fall off for a pasttime


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## Martin (14 Apr 2008)

Watching the water pump back in is a simple pleasure but highly satisfying  . You'll wonder why you've not done it before Chrisi. Just remember to turn the pump down a bit otherwise it tends to shoot out like niagara falls!


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## ulster exile (14 Apr 2008)

Cheers for the tip Martin!


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## TDI-line (14 Apr 2008)

Here's a pic of my tank being refilled via my pump in the garage, from a water butt.


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## ulster exile (14 Apr 2008)

I can understand you doing it TDI given the volume of your tank, but it's good to see a picture.  Right, I'm off to play with said pump and pipes


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## TDI-line (14 Apr 2008)

Yeah, 200-300 litres Chrisi per change, that's 20-30 buckets of water, meaning there is always a little slop of water somewhere. 

Luckily i have no carpets!


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## mindscape100 (14 Apr 2008)

Hi guys,

I use my external filter to change the water, 
The inlet tube has one of the new snap on type valve connectors that you can switch on and off so I just disconnect that add a pipe which I run to  the bathroom then open it and it empties...so long as the water level of the sink or whatever is lower than the tank level. Then to fill I just connect my inlet pipe back up . I then use the long lenght of pipe and place tone end in the sink and fill that with water at the temp I need. Then I syphon water from the sink then quickly connect that to the base of the filter and switch it on. The Im able to open the valves and the filter will run the water back into the tank via the spray bar as normal. Easy with no mess...possibly slightly slower than using a python??
Any other guys do this?

John


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## GreenNeedle (14 Apr 2008)

Superman said:
			
		

> I think I have to get smarter now with filling up the tank for water changes. I can easily siphon out the water into 10 ltr buckets for the water changes it's just putting the new water back in, don't want to uproot plants and or mess up the gravel arrangement.



I sit the bucket of new water on top of the hood and then siphon it back in the same way I siphoned the old out.  Works a treat and doesn't disturb a thing.

Andy


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## Superman (15 Apr 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Superman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good idea, might see if that works.


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## beeky (16 Apr 2008)

Strangely I've often thought about getting a powerhead or pump of some description but I never thought of using my external filter! Seems obvious now   

At the moment I siphon the water out of the tank into a bucket on the floor then carry it outside and chuck it on the garden. I then fill up the bucket, warm it up with water from the kettle and stand next to the tank holding it while I siphon it back in. I suppose it's good for my biceps....


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## ulster exile (16 Apr 2008)

I hear the Fluval FX5 is designed to allow it to be used for water changes.

Alas my ickle pump at 400lph just isn't strong enough - took over an hour to refill the tank so I'm going to buy an eheim universal pump - hopefully I can then use the hose and pump to water the garden direct from the water butts.


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