# Setting up a quarantine tank/Plant nursery



## EA James (14 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 

I've got a small 25L tank to use as a quarantine tank that i have used in the past as a hospital tank. I haven't quarantined fish before but because of the reasons for needing a hospital tank i think It's asfer for me to do so!

How long should the fish be in there before i add them into the main tank?
Should i treat these fish with any medications while they're in there? 
Do i put anything in the tank or leave it bare? 

Also, for the tank i have a small filter with a sponge in it, the sponge has a cut out on the inside of it that i put some media in (standard Fluval ceramic rings) from my FX4. It can only fit about 5 rings in it so would that be enough for the tank to be stable? I was going to cut the foam in half to fit more in but i think the rings need to be kept in the dark? I'm sure I've read that somewhere before???? 

Any other tips would be great

Cheers
James


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## Paul Kettless (14 Feb 2021)

good question, and I have been searching the history for similar information with little joy. shall be watching this post with interest.


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## EA James (14 Feb 2021)

Paul Kettless said:


> searching the history for similar information with little joy


Same here! Hopefully someone will be along with some answers soon......hin hint


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## MirandaB (14 Feb 2021)

I usually quarantine a minimum of 2 weeks on captive bred and 4 weeks on wild caught fish.
My lfs are very good and I'll observe the fish in there over a couple of weeks and they let me know if they've had problems with a particular batch.
Unless something shows up during qt the only treatment I do is worming.
Whilst I leave the tank bare bottomed I will add some moss and floating plants just to give the fish a bit of security as I always have surplus of those so not a problem if they needed to be thrown away.
For me filtration is not a huge issue as I have a lot of mature filters on the go so take a bit of media from those when needed.
I use the APS corner filters as you can remove the foam they come with and fit some bio media in there easily enough.


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## John q (14 Feb 2021)

You could always put the small sponge filter inside the fx4 for a week or two prior to getting the fish. If time isn't on your side then the rings would work assuming low stock. 

Medication? Two camps some only treat when signs of illness appear and some treat just in case. 
Personaly I'd agree with miranda about worming and assume most other illnesses would show within 2-3 weeks.
Decor, I'd put some form of shelter in there, plant pot/cave e t.c and a basic plant wouldn't do any harm. 

Cheers.


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## EA James (14 Feb 2021)

Okay @MirandaB that's great, thank you. Is there a specific worming treatment you'd recommend? 
I've got plenty of spare plants and floaters i can use so I'll do that, i always felt sorry for the fish in that tank before, firstly because they were sick but secondly the empty look of a bare tank. Just didn't feel right to me! 
The filter i have is the Superfish Aqua Flow 50, You can remove the foam from this too. Would i be better off removing it and filling the chamber with my mature media? 

Cheers for the reply @John q. Stock will be low, When i can get back out i want another couple of Honey Gourami and some Oto's and a few more Cory's but I'll get them on separate occasions as the QT tank is still too small for them all together. Not a problem, just another reason to back to the LFS 😂

Cheers


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## MirandaB (14 Feb 2021)

If you can get a reasonable amount of mature media into that filter then I would probably ditch the sponge,plenty of plants will also help out if stocking is low.
I tend to go straight for a levamisole based wormer such as Esha NDX as Camallanus worms seem to be the prevalent type certainly in fish from Asia.
Last thing you want to be dealing with in a planted tank as they can be a bit of a sod to get rid of.


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## EA James (14 Feb 2021)

Excellent, Thanks @MirandaB


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## Simon Cole (14 Feb 2021)

My set up:
bare glass
air stone
perch near the top of tank (high oxygen) for bettas
plastic ornament to provide shelter and low point perch
glass lid

A Typical Procedure - 
decontaminate tank and equip. with potassium permanganate and rinse. 
add isostatic-balanced salts to rehydrate fish (first few hours, up to 1 day) 
water change
take fish into tub with powerful air-stone held by net and administer potassium permanganate (PP) bath (usually up to 15 minutes depending upon strength, disease and fish)   
add antibiotic etc. to tank - aerate 
replace fish
optimise diet (whatever the cost if your fish only take mosquito larvae - you find them) 
fully replace water at appropriate integrals - depends upon half-life or metabolites build up from the primary treatment. remove the fish to an aerated bath during this process. re-dose as appropriate. You can also use smaller doses of PP or salts while you bath the fish. 
stimulate the fish - put tank next to other species, feed by hand, slow-flows, light settings etc. 
Some antibiotics take up to a month. For worming and parasite treatment you will need to adapt your own procedure. 

Key points - 
Isostatic balance through salts 
Topical treatment with PP as baths
Diet 
Effective antibiotics - appropriate duration and suitable disposal 
Aeration
Stimulation 

This should be adapted to your situation and treatment plans. Good luck. I have cured Bettas from columnaris this way.


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## alto (15 Feb 2021)

Simon Cole said:


> administer potassium permanganate (PP) bath


Take care with PP baths - scientific studies showed this actually increased infectivity for some Columnaris strains
Soft acidic water reduces infectivity for most Columnaris strains (but not really the best solution for guppies which seem to be the most Columnaris prevalent fish in lfs)



Simon Cole said:


> isostatic-balanced salts to rehydrate fish


Do you have some links on this (I admit I’m too lazy to look myself  - especially if you've got them to hand)


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## alto (15 Feb 2021)

alto said:


> Symptom Based Treatment of Common Discus Diseases by Dionigi Maladorno
> (thanks to Dave H for continuing to host this fantastic article)



This article is still well worth the printing - just choose the most relevant sections to keep at hand

Not sure if it’s my fading memory or if this hosted version is missing the bits (I swear) I recall (perhaps a different version) - details on quarantine times, introduction of main tank fish to “share” normal flora with the new fish (still in Q tank), followed by introduction of limited numbers of new fish into the established tank, and finally complete assimilation 

Some of this is overboard for most community fish (no one shares and “improves” upon diseases like discus, especially the more delicate lines)


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## Simon Cole (15 Feb 2021)

alto said:


> scientific studies showed this actually increased infectivity for some Columnaris strains


The theory would be that the fish is damaged by the PP bath, ergo more susceptible. However, I seem to remember that study was using quite high concentrations as stand-alone treatments, and also longer immersion times. I follow a more holistic plan. The idea I follow is to assume secondary infection on wounds because only certain antibiotics work against certain pathogens. Hence the risk of non-columnaris pathogens is reduced in the same way that you would clean a wound on a human, as prior, good practice. I reality, the concentrations I use are safe enough, and worked.


alto said:


> Do you have some links on this


On the salt and the permanganate, I have my notes somewhere else. I was thinking of publishing the method on here, but didn't think people were ready to accept those ideas. There was always a member telling another to use shop bought treatments, and the risk that they could get it wrong. Plus it is not legal to use antibiotics without prescription, which left floating the three-course method kind of hopeless in my mind. So I am only able to hint at the truth. If I get a lot of interest on this then I'll get my notes probably later in the year. I'll just have a quick look back on my old posts Alto.... while we are online.


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## alto (15 Feb 2021)

Just really looking for the fish rehydration studies


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## Simon Cole (15 Feb 2021)

Ha ha - you are going to love this @alto . It is from a discussion we had ages ago. Here we go:


Simon Cole said:


> Improve his diet. You should be able to collect mosquito larvae at this time of year. Aphids and caterpillars too (no ants). California blackworms, whiteworms, gridal worms, bloodworms - one or two per day only, daphnia, fruit flies etc. What triggered it looks like bacteria and remotely-possibly shrimp damage (unlikely with RCS). All my quarantine tanks are 40 litres. Oxygenate the water to it's max. Salt was a smart idea. I do not touch EHSA because it is full of copper and sulphur, reminds me of toxic waste. When it gets bad, I prefer* 2-3ppm potassium permanganate* baths to take the gram positive bacteria off their epidermal tissue. Some people prefer antibiotics, and others prefer salt. I would start with diet, oxygen and tank size. Never, Never EHSA. But that is just my experience, many would disagree. Keep that fish moving about - get your hand up there and draw him over when he becomes static for too long.


This is the bit on salt. I used good sea salt as advised below.


alto said:


>



Third stage was to use antibiotics (anything systemic according to the disease), but I need my notes for that one because I used human BMI and converted it to water volume in tank. An easy equation....
.... but of course we need to translate this method for parasitic worms.


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## Simon Cole (15 Feb 2021)

I seem to remember the PP in the study you mention was above 30ppm and long-term. I think, but may be wrong that you can even use it as mouth wash at the concentrations I use, yet it works down to 1 or 2 ppm. Of course, to sterilise the tank and equipment (fish absent) I go up to about 25ppm for 30 minutes.

The salt treatment just revives the fish and gets it buoyant and eating again.
Sometimes you need to be the hand of god and swim the fish around and feed it manually, but this too works (with the right systemic disease control of course).


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## alto (15 Feb 2021)

I was thinking about GH/KH “hydration” rather than NaCl 

btw now I’m convinced of my slow lapse into Memory Loss Syndrome


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


EA James said:


> I've got a small 25L tank to use as a quarantine tank that i have used in the past as a hospital tank. I haven't quarantined fish before but because of the reasons for needing a hospital tank i think It's asfer for me to do so!
> 
> How long should the fish be in there before i add them into the main tank?
> Should i treat these fish with any medications while they're in there?
> Do i put anything in the tank or leave it bare?


I keep <"a separate planted tank">, it is the same as all the other tanks, it just doesn't have any permanent residents. 

cheers Darrel


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## EA James (15 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I keep <"a separate planted tank">, it is the same as all the other tanks, it just doesn't have any permanent residents.
> 
> cheers Darrel


This is interesting, I have quite a few plants in the main tank that i wanted to take cuttings from and try and grow them on (never tried this before) so this might be the ideal opportunity to give it a go.
I'm not to sure how the plants would get on though as the tank doesn't have a very good light and unlike my main tank it won't have co2 injection. My Mircosorum Pteropus Needle leaf has a ton of new growth which I'd like to make the most of as I've been told It's quite a rare plant? 

Would the change to low tech shock the plants in some way or will they just grow slower?

Cheers


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## mrhoyo (13 Mar 2021)

Rather than start another quarantine thread so soon I thought I'd jump in on this one.

Having lost 2 gourami in the last 6 months I'm somewhat nervous about adding 'replacement' fish in case anything gets passed on to my remaining residents.
With that in mind I'm going to set up a quarantine tank and have ordered some eSHa NDX (as suggested by @MirandaB above) and GDEX. Does anyone use the GDEX preventively in their quarantine process?


I'm especially unhappy about the male gourami dying - I'd planned a whole new tank because of that fish - so don't want to take any chances with the rest.


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## MirandaB (13 Mar 2021)

I don't use anything other than a wormer unless something shows up during qt.
Unfortunately the vast majority of Gourami seem to be riddled with Iridovirus and there's not much you can do about that.


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## John q (13 Mar 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> Having lost 2 gourami in the last 6 months I'm somewhat nervous about adding 'replacement' fish in case anything gets passed on to my remaining residents.



Echo advice regards Iridovirus, especially concerning dwarf gourami.

The best defence against passing diseases to current tank residents is time; as in quarantine for a couple of weeks and see if anything shows up before introducing to main tank.

Getting stock from reputable dealers/stores that have already quarantined and kept them in good conditions will help mitigate the risk somewhat, but even then there's no guarantees.


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## mrhoyo (16 Mar 2021)

Lost 1 more today- same symptoms as before, all the other fish seem fine. 1 gourami left, so far seems unaffected.


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## EA James (21 Mar 2021)

Hi all,
So I've got the QT tank all set up now with some old bits i had laying around and some Microsorum Needle leaf plantlets that I'm going to try and grow in there too. 
I have a few questions though

Firstly, It has gravel in it, I want to get some more Corydora but will the gravel harm them for the week or so they'll be in there?

Obviously it's only low tech so will i need to  add any ferts for the Microsorum? I'm guessing so, I have some TNC lite but will that be enough? 

The light is playing up, It's starting to flicker quite regularly so I'm guessing it's on its way out. Any cheap suggestions for a light that would suit the tank? It does have a lid but i was thinking of removing the lid so it makes it easier for the choice of light. I know there is quite a lot of cheap LEDS available on the market now. 

Tank is 35cm in length and around 25-30 litres 

Cheers, James


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## EA James (21 Mar 2021)




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## John q (21 Mar 2021)

I have a number of corydoras and my substrate is gravel which isn't ideal. I've slowly  been adding finer gravel (2-3mm) on top and they seem to appreciate it. 
Could you not add a top layer of fine gravel?


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## EA James (21 Mar 2021)

John q said:


> Could you not add a top layer of fine gravel?


Possibly yes but as it will only be temporary housing I won't if i don't need to.  I don't plan on keeping the tank running permanently so i want to make it easy to break down again.
I have sand in the main tank by the way


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## John q (21 Mar 2021)

Leave it as is then. I only started adding the smaller layer after maybe 3 months having noticed one of them had damaged barbles. I'd assume a couple of weeks would be fine.


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## EA James (21 Mar 2021)

John q said:


> I'd assume a couple of weeks would be fine.


That should be the maximum amount of time they'll be in there, Providing there  are no issues! Fingers crossed 
Cheers


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## mrhoyo (21 Mar 2021)

Just set mine up today:

64L Really Useful Box 
APS corner filter filled half with foam and half with matrix from my main tank
Hidom heater
About a billion java ferns and other bits from the main tank

Gone bare bottom seeing as it's temporary.

Those APS filters are amazing for the price!


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## MirandaB (21 Mar 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> Those APS filters are amazing for the price!


I do rate them for the money,touch wood I've never had one pack up on me and several are years old now.
If I had to be picky the only thing I'd like is a longer spray bar on the smaller ones.


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## Courtneybst (21 Mar 2021)

I saw a video recently of Cory from Aquarium Co-op out in South America where Corydoras are found in the wild and he picked up handfuls of the substrate. It was literally like large jagged rocks, no smooth sand.


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## EA James (7 Apr 2021)

I’ve just cleaned up the main filter and nicked some media while I was there for the QT tank.
Will the media be ok like that? I’m sure I’ve heard/read before that it needs to be in the dark??
Cheers


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## EA James (7 Apr 2021)

Anyone?? ⬆️

Was hoping to buy some more Honey Gourami tomorrow that i finally found after a long time looking but i don't want to put them in the QT tank if its not right

Cheers


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## Karmicnull (7 Apr 2021)

Light is not the deal breaker- it's surface area that matters. There's an entertaining thread <here> about using nylon pot scrubbers as filter media based on their price/surface area - they've gone on my list! I've seen some reports of bacteria preferring the dark, but they all appear to be anecdotal rather than data driven (and don't mention Archea which is my spot-test for accuracy). Sponge filters and HOB filters aren't in the dark and work fantastically well. The only indisputable advantage of dark is that you don't get algae growth clogging up your filter!


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## EA James (8 Apr 2021)

Thanks for the reply @Karmicnull, I'm well aware of the surface area needs but that shouldn't be an issue with this set up. It's only a 25L tank that'll i'll be using for a couple of weeks while the fish are in QT. Should only be 4 fish in there at any one time. The media has come out of my FX4 that's been running nearly 2 years so it's definitely mature!

The tank only has a small LED and it's in my main tank cabinet so it's in the dark, It's also shaded by the rest of the filter so it shouldn't get much light anyway. I don't think algae will be an issue. I didn't think of sponge filters and HOB filters, obviously the same applies to them! Looks like I'm good to go then 

Cheers


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## castle (8 Apr 2021)

Courtneybst said:


> I saw a video recently of Cory from Aquarium Co-op out in South America where Corydoras are found in the wild and he picked up handfuls of the substrate. It was literally like large jagged rocks, no smooth sand.



I don't think it's a very god example. The barbels of corydoras over hard substrate normally wear away(?), the accounts of collections of most of these fish normally state they're over silt/sand/pebbles.

What I imagine is happening is that the fish are moving across large areas, catching food as it comes down stream but would likely only sift in the sediment built up areas. I suspect in aquariums, when food goes down into gravel, corydoras will naturally sift a little damaging themselves.


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## si walker (1 May 2021)

Hi all.
I am surprised at the lack of chat on this subject. Maybe most people trust their LFS and don't quarantine.
Does anyone know if Maidenhead Aquatics Quarantine new stock? I am guessing that they have too rather than have a barrage of upset customers.

Anyway Cory from the Aquarium CO-OP has some really interesting info on Salt for quarantine and diseases. Its really worth a listen along with everything else he bangs on about!!
.


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