# Ill Rams, will be looking for a replacements soon, but what?



## PM (2 Sep 2009)

Hi all, 

Haven't posted in a long time here, hope you're all well, I have just graduated 

I bought 2 Rams about 2/3 months ago (the first died within a week and I got a free replacement).

BUT, both fish are extremely ill and on there way out, which is quite sad as they really were great.

I bought them as my rummies and black neons hid a lot, and the plan was that these would make them swim around more - it worked. I have read thought about 99% of Rams are treated with hormones to make them brighter, but consequently they die after a few months.

SO, I am looking for suggestions on fish to act as a scare monger (kinda) for the others. I'd like rams but unless I can find a good source I'd rather choose another fish. Tried Killi fish before, and as beautiful as they are they are jumpers, and my tank is open top and heavily planted (54 liters).

What do you reckon? A pair of something would be nice 

Might post a pic of the tank later...


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

BTW all the other fish are healthy, the Rams are breathing bery heavily just below the surface, and one has I large lump next to his mouth (wasn't there a few days ago).

Was feeding them mostly bloodworm, and some flake, and they had a go at some algae wafers too.


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## rawr (2 Sep 2009)

Apistos


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

Any others?

Are these fish generally very healthy then? Like more so than Rams?


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## rawr (2 Sep 2009)

I can't really comment on that. I've kept Rams before and they've lived healthily for years. I haven't kept Apistos, but there's obviously been loads of people who have kept both species successfully.

There's certainly a lot more types of Apistos to choose from.

A healthy fish is a healthy fish at the end of the say.


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## Nick16 (2 Sep 2009)

shouldnt you *address why the rams are suffering*, before you buy more fish? (especially apisto's which are very similar)


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

Well it can only be poor fish!

Tank is super clean and healhty and other fish are fine.

Really I just want Rams that don't die, but, they're dieing!


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## andy (2 Sep 2009)

What about Bolivian Rams.   I have 6 in my 90 gallon planted tank and they are superb....colourful, always out, interesting and as hard as nails.


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

I think they may be a bit large for my tank, it's only 54L (60x30x32cm)

Anyone know a GOOD source of actual German Rams???

I'd be willing to pay for quality fish...


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## Ed Seeley (2 Sep 2009)

You get good and awful batches of Rams.  Personally if you can, I'd go for wild ones.  Not as flashy as the captive bred ones in the shop but once they settle down they are amazing.

Or go with Kribs which are the perfect small cichlid IMO.


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

Thanks, but where do I get wild ones from? (Short of going fishing)


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## Ed Seeley (2 Sep 2009)

PM said:
			
		

> Thanks, but where do I get wild ones from? (Short of going fishing)



There available at some better LFSs.  I reckon Wholesale Tropicals would be worth a check in London - they have a huge range of more unusual fish.


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## samc (2 Sep 2009)

check these out

http://shop.ebay.co.uk/ste12000/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

they have juvenile ones which are near wild. the electric blue ones look pretty sweet too


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## PM (2 Sep 2009)

^ Cool thanks, they look okay, but I think I'll take a trip to Wholesale Tropicals some time soon see what on offer!

Thinking abut re-scaping so we'll see!

Not all that keen on apistos, they look a bit grumpy!


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## Nelson (2 Sep 2009)

might be worth calling them first to see what they have.great shop though.

got these
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/sto ... 6&prod=161

they say these are harder to keep  
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/sto ... 6&prod=227


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## baron von bubba (3 Sep 2009)

are the co2 levels fine?

i use a ph meter to monitor the "rough" co2 levels on my tank, i know the tank well enough by now for it to work quite well for me. 
however......... 
my probe had gone out of calibration and i was adding much more co2 than i should have been. 
all the fish "seemed" fine, no gasping etc, but they were hiding lots. new fish i added struggled lots, which was when i realized something was wrong.
as soon sorted the co2 levels the fish were much happier and hiding much less. 

i'm sure its totally unrelated, but just a thought!


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## PM (3 Sep 2009)

^ I use a drop checker, It's grass green all day long 

EDIT: Plus I use a skimmer 24/7 so the surface is crystal clear all the time too!


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## andy (3 Sep 2009)

> What about Bolivian Rams. I have 6 in my 90 gallon planted tank and they are superb....colourful, always out, interesting and as hard as nails.






			
				PM said:
			
		

> I think they may be a bit large for my tank, it's only 54L (60x30x32cm)



Mine are actually smaller than "normal" Rams....they're no bigger than 2" and i've had them a year !!!


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## dsandson (5 Sep 2009)

I have to say I'm with PM here. I've never had good quality rams before. They all simply fade away and die within 2 months, no matter how clean the water is. I'd never buy rams again.

Kribs and Apistos however... I have a pair of each in my 180l and they are brilliant to watch, and oh so healthy. Very colourful too, once they settle in. Even in the best of shops, their colours never show. 

I'd say that Kribs would probably grow too big for a 54l unless it was lightly stocked, but Apistos should be better suited. Always depends on the breed though.

Dave


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## Jack middleton (6 Sep 2009)

german blue rams must be one of the worst treated fish in the hobby...these fish demand temperatures of 28-32 degrees yet nobody gives it to them...why?- because all the internet sources are out dated and wrong...i bet you anything that the low temperature is why theyre not lasting very long.
although some people can get them going at lower temperatures, there are other things that should be met too- GH lower than 10, PH lower than 7.6.
if you can get wild caught ones these demands arent as necessary, but if you get a pair that have come from a fish farm in the czech republic that are fed hormones and antibiotics...then these needs have to be met or they wont last two seconds.


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## PM (6 Sep 2009)

Jack middleton said:
			
		

> german blue rams must be one of the worst treated fish in the hobby...these fish demand temperatures of 28-32 degrees yet nobody gives it to them...why?- because all the internet sources are out dated and wrong...i bet you anything that the low temperature is why theyre not lasting very long.
> although some people can get them going at lower temperatures, there are other things that should be met too- GH lower than 10, PH lower than 7.6.
> if you can get wild caught ones these demands arent as necessary, but if you get a pair that have come from a fish farm in the czech republic that are fed hormones and antibiotics...then these needs have to be met or they wont last two seconds.



You may be right, but how would I know when the whole internet tells me 24 degrees! My ph is about 7.0. GH not sure.


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## PM (6 Sep 2009)

So what temperature is good for a community tank (i.e. my fish below)?

It's at 24 at the mo, or are you saying that these fish probably need different temperatures/tanks?

Hmmmm........  :?


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## Jack middleton (6 Sep 2009)

they dont make very good community fish, regarding the temperature requirements.

28 is way too warm for most tetras, tank mates should be chosen according to their parameters needed IMO


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