# Getting it "lime green"



## Bahamuts (11 Dec 2011)

Hi all,

I have a AquaStart 500 (65L l 50cm x w 34cm x h 49cm)

3 weeks ago I bought a JBL kit and starting injecting CO2.
I use the included bubbletrap at max length and the solenoid to cut off CO2 when lights are not on.

The instructions said to start at 1 bubble / 5 seconds and work your way up untill the drop checker was lime green.
Now I have been gradually highering it to the point where it runs at 1 bubble per second. The color of the drop checker is still not close to lime green. It is less blue than before but I am still only around 10-12 ppm according to the colour scale (measured just before it gets cut off). I did a PH test and that gave me about the same result.

1 bubble per second in my counter is 1 bubble per second in my trap so I don't seem to have a leak somewhere. The bubbles run up the trap fine and get a lot smaller when reaching the top so it is (I think) dissolving fine too.

I am using the spraybar that came with the filter and there is good flow (but also quite a lot of surface agitation, is this causing it to evaporate?).

Should I be running this at even more bbs? That seems a bit extreme for such a small tank and if something is causing this will just drain my cannister faster...
Should I try the glass diffuser in stead?
Or is there something else I can do to get to the "sweet spot"?

Thanks in advance.

Sven


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## John S (11 Dec 2011)

From what I've learned on here there are lots of things that come into play. So much of this trial and error, but most importantly take your time with what you do. Also, don't change too many things at once. 

For surface agitation the trick is not to break the waters surface. So as long as it's not splashing you should be OK. Have you tried your drop checker in a different area of the tank as it might be in a dead spot? How long is your CO2 on before your lights come on?

I have a 65L tank, glass diffuser under filter inlet and spraybar and have to run closer to 2 bubbles per second to get the Co2 level correct. CO2 is on for 90 minutes before lights. I also think 2BPS is high but I'm still tweaking it though to try to make it more efficient.


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## RudeDogg1 (11 Dec 2011)

*Getting it "lime green"*

What are u using to inject the co2 diffuser, atomiser ect?


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## Arana (11 Dec 2011)

what are you filling your dropchecker with?


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## PeteA (11 Dec 2011)

I've got an aquastart 320t, and I imagine that you're using the little connector to plumb the co2 straight into the filter flow?  The spraybar should be about 1cm under the surface of the water, pointing towards the front of the tank, once I did this the surface agitation was significantly less but with no reduction of flow.  The pressure may not be enough to push the co2 into the water and might just push it in, in spurts or the seal between your pipe and the connector might be iffy, so try it with the glass diffuser and check you have co2 coming out.  Also a drop checker will show you the amount of co2 in the tank 2 hours ago not now (in case nothing had told you that).


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## Bahamuts (11 Dec 2011)

davem said:
			
		

> So as long as it's not splashing you should be OK. Have you tried your drop checker in a different area of the tank as it might be in a dead spot? How long is your CO2 on before your lights come on?



Yeah I did try several spots in the tank but no difference.
I did have quite a bit of splash, I'll move it down and see if that helps a bit.
The Co2 comes on just over an hour prior to the lights turning on.
So running it at 1 bps in a smallish tank is not too extreme yet? The fish are not gasping or anything but it seemed quite a lot when the booklet stated to go with 1 every 5 seconds for 50L tanks   



			
				RudeDogg1 said:
			
		

> What are u using to inject the co2 diffuser, atomiser ect?


The bubble trap that came with the kit, about 20cm long. Visually I think the glass diffuser would be slightly prettier but I started with this since I was told a trap is more efficient.



			
				Arana said:
			
		

> what are you filling your dropchecker with?


It came with the JBL set, it is Bromo Blue unless I am severely mistaken.



			
				PeteA said:
			
		

> I've got an aquastart 320t, and I imagine that you're using the little connector to plumb the co2 straight into the filter flow?


Nah it goes cannister - tube - bubble counter - tube - non return valve - tube - trap
The filter is in the back left corner with the spraybar aimed towards the middle front, while trap is front left.
From the bubbles going from big to very small I reckon it is doing what it should, but I could always try the glass one for a bit in case reducing the splash does not seem to help.


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## Alastair (11 Dec 2011)

With the jbl diffuser you need to ensure its an an area of good flow to take the dissolved c02 with it. I'd aim for turning co2 on 2 hours before lights to have s nice green drop checker when lights come on. And with that particular diffuser you don't actually need the bubble counter as you can count the bubbles going up the spiral.
The water breaking the surface will be why it's taking longer to change colour in the drop checker as it will be gassing off some of the co2. To counter this you can either turn up the co2 or lower your outflow do as to not break the surface at all. Their recommendations for 1 bubble every 5 seconds is very low.


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## Alastair (11 Dec 2011)

Ps the jbl drop checker solution is fine just ensure its mixed with 4dkh liquid and not tabk or tap water


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## John S (11 Dec 2011)

Bahamuts said:
			
		

> So running it at 1 bps in a smallish tank is not too extreme yet? The fish are not gasping or anything but it seemed quite a lot when the booklet stated to go with 1 every 5 seconds for 50L tanks



I would imagine JBL err on the side of caution with their instructions. It's too easy to gas your fish if this kit is in the wrong hands.

If you can get your CO2 to dissolve efficiently the less it will cost you to run.

What filter do you run?


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## Bahamuts (11 Dec 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> With the jbl diffuser you need to ensure its an an area of good flow to take the dissolved c02 with it. I'd aim for turning co2 on 2 hours before lights to have s nice green drop checker when lights come on.


Ok I'll make it turn on a bit earlier




			
				davem said:
			
		

> I would imagine JBL err on the side of caution with their instructions. It's too easy to gas your fish if this kit is in the wrong hands.
> 
> If you can get your CO2 to dissolve efficiently the less it will cost you to run.
> 
> What filter do you run?



The internal Aqua One Maxi 102F that came with the tank. (500l per hour)
Have been wanting to upgrade to a external Fluval one but that will be for after the holiday period


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## Morgan Freeman (11 Dec 2011)

The most important question, how are your plants? If they're growing well, don't worry about the drop checker.


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## Arana (11 Dec 2011)

Arana said:
			
		

> what are you filling your dropchecker with?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry i meant what are you mixing with the bromo blue? i seem to remember JBL instructions tell you to mix it with tank water   if this is the case you will not be getting a true reading, you need to mix it with 4DKH water to see the true CO2 levels.


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## Bahamuts (11 Dec 2011)

Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> The most important question, how are your plants? If they're growing well, don't worry about the drop checker.



the Limnobium laevigatum is the only thing that is growing well, I nip off the new ones every 2-3 days to make sure they are not taking away too much light from the rest.

The rest looks healty but I wouldn't call them fast growing at all, specially not what I would expect from things like Hygrophila polysperma with CO2 + daily ferts.
Maybe 1/2 an inch a week...




			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Sorry i meant what are you mixing with the bromo blue? i seem to remember JBL instructions tell you to mix it with tank water  if this is the case you will not be getting a true reading, you need to mix it with 4DKH water to see the true CO2 levels.


It was a premix of Bromo Blue with 4dkh water, 35 drops as instructed fills it up perfectly


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## John S (20 Dec 2011)

One thing that still puzzles me here is how people get a lime green drop checker at lights on? It seems many people switch their CO2 on 2 hrs before lights on. If the drop checker is telling us what was going on approximately 2 hours before how can that be?  

I have my co2 come on at 2pm, at lights on which is 4pm the drop checker is not green. At about 6pm its is emerald green at 8:30 when the CO2 goes off it is lime green. Does this sound about right or am I taking too long to get there?


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## PeteA (20 Dec 2011)

I've not really played with mine but it doesn't drop towards blue at all.  Nice lime green at lights on and emerald most of the rest of the time.


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## John S (20 Dec 2011)

PeteA said:
			
		

> I've not really played with mine but it doesn't drop towards blue at all.  Nice lime green at lights on and emerald most of the rest of the time.


Peter how long is your Co2 on before lights on?


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## PeteA (20 Dec 2011)

CO2 kicks in at 1.30pm with the lights coming on at 3.30pm.  CO2 off is 7.30pm and lights are 10.30pm.  What I have found is that the pressure of the CO2 (2.5) means that CO2 tends to carry on feeding into the tank for another 20 minutes after it switches off.  I've got one of the new style UP atomisers.


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## John S (20 Dec 2011)

PeteA said:
			
		

> CO2 kicks in at 1.30pm with the lights coming on at 3.30pm.  CO2 off is 7.30pm and lights are 10.30pm.  What I have found is that the pressure of the CO2 (2.5) means that CO2 tends to carry on feeding into the tank for another 20 minutes after it switches off.  I've got one of the new style UP atomisers.



Thanks again for the repsonse Pete, your CO2 time isn't a million miles away from mine. I'm using an inline UP atomiser of the output of a 2078. I might try uping the bubble rate a bit next time I'm home for the day.


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## PeteA (21 Dec 2011)

Bubble rates seem to be dependant upon a number of factors, including the diffuser/atomiser, bubble counter and the length of pipe between the injection point and the actual pipe outlet.  What I do find is that when the CO2 kicks in the bubble rate seems very fast until the tubing and atomiser gets up to working pressure.  When I was originally setting mine up I got it up to pressure and got the bubbles running to the point where I could barely count them (i.e. too quick) as I knew that 190 litres was going to need quite a bit of CO2.  It's never gone yellow for me, but not blue either.


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## ghostsword (21 Dec 2011)

*Getting it "lime green"*

I use bubble rate as a guidance of how much change I have made to the needle valve.

My drop checker is also not yellow, but stays green all the time, will not drop to blue unless I have it outside the tank.

Co2 is an art, much harder than keeping plants. 


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## GillesF (21 Dec 2011)

I'm having almost the same problem: lime green in the evening but dark green when the lights go on. CO2 goes on and shuts off 2 hours before the lighting. What's the best solution, simply increase the bps? The light are on for 2 hours atm and I can already see some air bubbles under the leaves. I don't know if that's something to keep in mind.


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## ghostsword (21 Dec 2011)

*Getting it "lime green"*

I may have missed on the earliest posts, but why so much interest on the drop checker color?  i've seen a tank that had a drop checker on each corner of the tank and some where light green, others dark green, it varies. 


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## John S (21 Dec 2011)

*Re: Getting it*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> I may have missed on the earliest posts, but why so much interest on the drop checker color?  i've seen a tank that had a drop checker on each corner of the tank and some where light green, others dark green, it varies.



Well it was me who sort of side tracked the thread   . 

I was trying to understand that if a drop checker can take up to 2 hours to respond, how do people achieve a lime green at lights on after only 2 hours CO2? In my case my drop checker is blue at lights on. It's green two hours in and lime green at lights off. I just wondered if I would be better off trying to achieve green at lights on by turning CO2 on an hour earlier and knocking it off an hour earlier so the CO2 was more consistant during the photo period?


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## ghostsword (21 Dec 2011)

*Getting it "lime green"*

Ah ok. If you see such a difference between lights on and middle of the day then there is something odd with the time.  I would star the co2 about 2 hours before lights on. Or actually measure how long does it take for the solution to change.


___________________________

I don't know what is the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please the world!


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## GHNelson (21 Dec 2011)

Hi
Before the Co2 is switched on albeit the drop checker is already Green not Blue.
So 2 hours later when the lights switch on....... and the Co2 has been running the drop checker is already changing to Lime Green.
So you need to try and conserve the Co2 in your aquarium when lights switch off....this can be a fine balance if you have livestock/critters as Tom Barr/Plantbrain would say 
You dont want to be stressing/suffocating the inhabitants just for the sake of a Lime Green drop checker.
Cheers
hoggie


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## John S (21 Dec 2011)

I can see what you are saying but my Co2 comes on 2 hrs before lights and the d/c is blueish. I stop my Co2 at 8PM so I don't see how I'm going to conserve Co2 through to the next day?

I can turn it on 3 hours before and it the d/c might be green then at lights on.

Am I doing something wrong or just getting too bogged down in this :?


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## spyder (22 Dec 2011)

If you are concerned about this how about, you start you co2 2 hours prior to lights on. Aim for lime green 2 hours into the photoperiod. As it's "2 hours behind" it will be telling you where you were 2 hours ago when the lights came on?


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## PeteA (22 Dec 2011)

How much surface agitation do you have in your tank?  Sounds like you're loosing CO2 overnight.


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## John S (22 Dec 2011)

PeteA said:
			
		

> How much surface agitation do you have in your tank?  Sounds like you're loosing CO2 overnight.



It's not breaking the surface, looks like a stong heat haze. The spray bar holes are about 4cm below the water, I have an UP inline diffuser on the output of my Eheim 2078.


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## GillesF (4 Jan 2012)

Alright, my DC is light green when the lights go on. Is this sufficient or does it really have to be lime green? Plants start producing oxygen bubbles one hour after lights on. A lot of mist in the tank though ...


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## ceg4048 (4 Jan 2012)

Yes, this is the correct sequence of events for a normal plant load, for a tank with good flow and distribution and for a tank that is not overpowered with photonic energy. If there are abnormalities then you may need for the dropchecker to be yellow at lights on.

Cheers,


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## GillesF (4 Jan 2012)

It is yellow now but no signs of fish stress so far (although they look calm, but not abnormally). Can I adjust my timer so that CO2 goes off when after half an hour when my DC gets yellow?


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