# 28L Nothobranchius guentheri setup questions



## Robbie X (27 Mar 2014)

Hi all, was just rooting around in my junk room looking for a bag of Tesco cat litter I plan on using as substrate base for my first Wabi Kusa setup. I found an old 28L (45x25x25) tank I had completely forgotten about.
So after reading about N_othobranchius guentheri_ earlier this week decided to give them a go.
Just ordered some eggs fro eBay, but have a few questions.
1. Can anyone recommend a very small heater for the tank? (Purchased a nano heater)
2. Can you recommend a sponge filter setup for this size tank?
3. What peat substrate would you recommend? (Going to use jiffy pellets as suggested)
4. Can anyone suggest a cheap Brine Shrimp kit for the live food source? (Now going for the DIY method)
Many thanks
Robbie


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## ourmanflint (27 Mar 2014)

I can't help with most of that except for brine shrimp. Easily hatched with one of these, the resulting shrimps are easier to harvest as you just disconnect the air line and drain out the shrimps, rinse and start again

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NT-Labs-B...5?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item1c3a9c59db

They work really well, but you could just as easily use the old upturned soda bottle method

http://www.solidgoldfish.com/2013/11/easy-diy-brine-shrimp-hatchery.html

cheers


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## dw1305 (27 Mar 2014)

Hi all,
I've kept them, you only need a saucer of peat for them to spawn in, the rest of the substrate can be sand. I kept mine in rain water with lots of plants, because they are very "scrappy". They eat anything that wriggles.  

I fed mine a lot of mosquito larvae (it was before I had grindal worms etc) . 

Have a look at <http://www.killi.co.uk/breedingReport/Nothobranchius/guentheri/>.

cheers Darrel


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## Robbie X (27 Mar 2014)

Cheers for the links Ourmanflint, that's a great little kit but I'll go with the DIY method and this handy mix I ordered 
http://www.aquariumonline.co.uk/aqu..._accessories/jbl_artemio_mix_230gm_P1621.html

Cheers dw, will have a good read of the link. Btw, what peat did you use?


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## dw1305 (27 Mar 2014)

Hi all,


Robbie X said:


> what peat did you use?


 "Irish moss sphagnum", but a lot of people used "Jiffy 7 Peat Pellets", you buy them dry and they swell up in water.  They are great for cuttings etc as well.

Should be some sellers on Amazon and eBay.  

cheers Darrel


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## Robbie X (27 Mar 2014)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> "Irish moss sphagnum", but a lot of people used "Jiffy 7 Peat Pellets", you buy them dry and they swell up in water.  They are great for cuttings etc as well.
> 
> Should be some sellers on Amazon and eBay.
> ...


Sweet, cheers brother, I have a handful of the jiffy pellets, what do you do? Just break them up in a bowl? How many would I need to use? 
Also,  just been watching some interesting vids on "micro worm" cultures. Would these be fed before the baby brine shrimp? I also need to get hold of some java moss so the fry have a place to hide.


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## dw1305 (27 Mar 2014)

Robbie X said:


> Sweet, cheers brother, just been watching some interesting vids on "micro worm" cultures. Would these be fed before the baby brine shrimp? I also need to get hold of some java moss so the fry have a place to hide.


 They are a bit smaller than BBS, so you can feed them before. I don't have enough fish to really make culturing BBS worthwhile, so I tend to use Rotifers, Vinegar eels, Walter worms and Micro worms in that order for really small fry and as soon as they are feeding well on the Micro worms, and fairly active I add in some Grindal worms and Daphnia. I have really weedy tanks that have been set up long term, so they fry are probably getting a lot of their food from the bio-film. 

_Nothobranchius_ fry are reasonably large and I think they should be big enough for Micro-worms straight away.

PM me you address and I'll send a mico-worm etc culture and a big wodge of moss, it will be £5 to cover P&P. You can either donate it to the forum, or paypal me.  

cheers Darrel


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## Robbie X (27 Mar 2014)

dw1305 said:


> They are a bit smaller than BBS, so you can feed them before. I don't have enough fish to really make culturing BBS worthwhile, so I tend to use Rotifers, Vinegar eels, Walter worms and Micro worms in that order for really small fry and as soon as they are feeding well on the Micro worms, and fairly active I add in some Grindal worms and Daphnia. I have really weedy tanks that have been set up long term, so they fry are probably getting a lot of their food from the bio-film.
> 
> _Nothobranchius_ fry are reasonably large and I think they should be big enough for Micro-worms straight away.
> 
> ...


Sweet! Nice one man, ill PM you


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## Robbie X (27 Mar 2014)

I'm a little dim but is PM , " Start a conversation" on this site?
Could also use some advice on what plants would be suitable for this setup? 
Also, the tank is a clearseal with a cheap plastic hood the same as the one on this link
http://woodcotegreen.com/Products/3380-clearseal-aquarium-glasshood-16x8x8.aspx
Can anyone recommend a cheap DIY light setup for this hood? Something that will still allow me to grow plants?
Cheers


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## dw1305 (28 Mar 2014)

Hi all, 


> I'm a little dim but is PM , " Start a conversation" on this site?


PM received. 





> Can anyone recommend a cheap DIY light setup for this hood?


 It isn't DIY, but a "clip on" 11W PL2 fitting would do, there should be some on EBAY. There is almost certainly a clip-on LED that would do the job as well. 





> Could also use some advice on what plants would be suitable for this setup?


   Any low tech ones, Java Fern, moss,_ Cryptocoryne, Bolbitis, Anubias, Ceratopteris_ and either _Cabomba caroliniana _or _Ceratophyllum. _

cheers Darrel


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## Robbie X (28 Mar 2014)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> PM received.  It isn't DIY, but a "clip on" 11W PL2 fitting would do, there should be some on EBAY. There is almost certainly a clip-on LED that would do the job as well.    Any low tech ones, Java Fern, moss,_ Cryptocoryne, Bolbitis, Anubias, Ceratopteris_ and either _Cabomba caroliniana _or _Ceratophyllum. _
> 
> cheers Darrel


Cheers Brother, bought a clip on LED, will replace the hood with a cover glass to stop them jumping out. Thanks for the plant list. Has anyone got any of the plants listed for sale? I don't need that many as the tank is quite small.
I have now got all the kit bar a sponge filter and substrate, never ran a sponge filter before so could use some recommendations on setup for such a small tank.
I also still need to get a substrate suitable for Killie's that will be suitable for planting, I was looking at the "Eco Complete" as I would like a dark substrate but its to expensive, is there a cheaper alternative?
Edit: My Nothobranchius guentheri eggs have just arrived
Discussion in 'Fish' started by Robbie X, Yesterday at 12:46 AM.


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## dw1305 (28 Mar 2014)

Hi Robbie, 





Robbie X said:


> I was looking at the "Eco Complete" as I would like a dark substrate but its to expensive, is there a cheaper alternative?


 I just use sand, you can get black sand "Unipac Limpopo" I'm not sure how much it costs, I use cheapTesco etc. "play-sand" normally. 

You can't see much substrate in any of the tanks (it is covered in leaves, wood, moss etc), so I don't mind what colour it is. I'd usually mix in some Oak leaf mould with the sand, but I'm not sure it makes much difference.  

The only tank I've got with a different media is one with "Tesco Lightweight Cat Litter",  which is OK as well. 





Robbie X said:


> I have a handful of the jiffy pellets, what do you do? Just break them up in a bowl? How many would I need to use?


 No just let them swell up and put them in a plant pot or on a saucer etc. the fish will find it when they want to spawn. 

You can use the Jiffy peat pellets <http://www.gardensupplydirect.co.uk/jiffy_7_pellets__peat_pots_/10097_0c.html> as a growing medium for your stem plants & _Echinodorus, Cryptocotyne_ etc. 

Have a look at this <http://www.nothobranchius.info/pdfs/lab_protocols_1.pdf>, _N. furzeri i_s pretty similar, but likes harder water. 

cheers Darrel


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## Robbie X (28 Mar 2014)

dw1305 said:


> Hi Robbie,  I just use sand, you can get black sand "Unipac Limpopo" I'm not sure how much it costs, I use cheapTesco etc. "play-sand" normally.
> 
> You can't see much substrate in any of the tanks (it is covered in leaves, wood, moss etc), so I don't mind what colour it is. I'd usually mix in some Oak leaf mould with the sand, but I'm not sure it makes much difference.
> 
> ...


Cheers mate, just been reading about "Seachem Flourite Black Sand" its pretty cheap. Would a layer of John Inness No1 be ok under this? I have a big bag of No1 so this would help me keep costs down.
EDIT: Decided to use Tesco cat litter (well washed) as the top substrate.

Also, I replied to the PM mate


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## killi69 (4 Apr 2014)

dw1305 said:


> You can't see much substrate in any of the tanks (it is covered in leaves, wood, moss etc), so I don't mind what colour it is. I'd usually mix in some Oak leaf mould with the sand, but I'm not sure it makes much difference.


Did you not find that dirt, left over food etc got trapped in all the 'leaves, wood, moss etc'??  When I used to run notho tanks, I found that sooner or later, more and more peat escaped from the bowl and dirt particles, left over food etc got stuck among the peat. I found this to be a problem as (former) live food or frozen food got trapped and decomposed there.    I used a bowl with relatively high edges and used plants that did not need rooting in substrate, such as ferns or free floating stem plants. When things got  messy, I took the plants out and vacuumed the bottom to keep everything nice and clean.  This I also did because nothos can be sensitive to velvet - in fact I remember adding salt to help prevent velvet and the crypts did not do well at all with salt added, ferns and other plants did not seem to mind.

Anyway, there are always different approaches and theories on how to do things.  Some swear by the need to add salt to keep nothos healthy, others dont bother.  Different methods can all work and I am all for showing off killis in planted tanks.  My approach above was more about breeding in a practical way, rather than trying to create a nicely designed planted tank, which would have involved, I think, a lot more work to keep up with the hygiene.

Good luck with the hatching.  It is so amazing to see fish appear after adding water to a handful of peat - nature's magic!


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## Robbie X (4 Apr 2014)

Cheers bro, the tank is now set up. I used Westland Citrus compost as the base, capped by tesco cat litter (took 3 days of constant washing to get the dust out!).
Had some java moss, a couple of plants and a selection of floating plants from Darrel to start me off (big thanks Darrel). He also gave me a micro worm and grindal worm culture to start my live food setup going. I also have a big tub of JBL artemio mix for when the fry are a little bigger.
I'm going to cycle the tank for around 3 weeks, that way I will be able to use tank water for changing the water in the hatching container. When the fry are big enough to find the live food in the tank ill pop them in.
I'm very excited, can't wait to get started


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## killi69 (4 Apr 2014)

For the brine shrimp hatching, I would really recommend the 'San Francisco Bay Brand Hatching Set', seen here on the right;


It works on the same principle as the DIY upside down soda bottle method (seen above on left) and but its much less fiddly, as;
a)  you have a more stable base, and;
b)  its so much easier to clean than the DIY version where you have to contend with the base bottle dangling around.

You can buy it posted for 16 Euro from http://www.ta-aquaculture.com/


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## Robbie X (4 Apr 2014)

killi69 said:


> For the brine shrimp hatching, I would really recommend the 'San Francisco Bay Brand Hatching Set', seen here on the right;
> 
> 
> It works on the same principle as the DIY upside down soda bottle method (seen above on left) and but its much less fiddly, as;
> ...


Cheers brother, will check it out


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## dw1305 (5 Apr 2014)

Hi all, 





> When I used to run notho tanks, I found that sooner or later, more and more peat escaped from the bowl and dirt particles, left over food etc got stuck among the peat. I found this to be a problem as (former) live food or frozen food got trapped and decomposed there.


 Yes the tanks always ended up as a horrible peaty mess. I only fed live food (mainly green-fly and _Daphnia_). If I did it again I'd definitely go for a thin sand layer, and all the plants either attached or in pots.

cheers Darrel


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