# ?orrible algae problem, advice needed



## frankzappatistas (3 Sep 2011)

Four months ago i decided too plant some plants in my 8 years old aquarium, some Hemianthus Callitrichoides and some Vallisneria.
On the second week hear algae start appearing in my HC. Since then I' m trying to find a solution with no success.
But the real nightmare started when i left for summer vocations leaving my aquarium unattended for two weeks.
This is what I found when I returned



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Fantastic.
I removed most of the algae, removed decoration, 4 days blackout and the amount of algae was reduced but not gone completely. After a week hear algae start growing again. I must be doing something wrong with the dosing of fertilizers.

I'm using Tropica Plant Nutrition, the recommended dosage divided for seven days, 
Easy Life Fosfo the recommended dosage for 0.1ppm PO4 daily,
Easy Life Nitro the recommended dosage for 0.1ppm NO3 daily and 
same K with ADA Brighty K. My 
drop checker indicates that CO2 is OK
my lights: 4X39W 8 hours continuously
my aquarium 89cm x 39cm x 36cm approximately 125 liters or 33 US gallons or 27.5 UK gallons.

today I made my weekly water change this is how the aquarium looks today



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there's still some algae on my plants



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after the water change I added 3.5 ml of Tropica Plant Nutrition twice the recommended daily dosage but my Fe test shows 0ppm of Fe in the water
NO3 - 5ppm
PO4 - 0ppm
PH - 7.2
GH - 13
KH - 13
temperature 26c (79F)

I decided to stop adding NO3 and PO4 for a week to see what will happen, i reduce my photo period to 6 hours (4 hours all of the lights on 6 hours only the two bulbs), i start dosing 1ml of EasyLife EasyCarbo (recommended dosage).

I desperately need some advice how to fight these monster
should i add more fertilizers? should i reduce fertilizers? or photo period?


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Sep 2011)

thats a LOT of light for 27g, more than my 55g which is high light.  I would take out 2 bulbs or lift it by a foot.


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## foxfish (3 Sep 2011)

More gas, less light...


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## clonitza (3 Sep 2011)

This brings me memories 

2x39w will be sufficient for that shallow aquarium on the long run.

I'd do a couple of things:
- add more plants and by more I mean more, plant it heavily
- use TPN+ instead of EasyLife Nitro & Fosfo, twice the recommended dosage divided for daily dosage combined with TPN
- trim the HC, about 1cm.
- try and see if EasyLife Algexit can stop the algae from spreading, doesn't do any harm as far as I've tested it, use the recommended dosage and you should see results after lets say 2 weeks.

Best of luck,
Mike


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## frankzappatistas (3 Sep 2011)

I'm a little confused about light in the planted aquarium, the following article
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/sears-conlin.html
if you scroll down to Recommendations session recommends 12h/day
same here
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_algae.php
although i read in several posts here recommendation of reducing photo period in order to prevent algae
 :?  :? 

all stick with 6h/day and two bulbs turned off to see if there is any improvement.

Should nutrition go to 0ppm every day or it doesn't mater if NO3 level remains at 5ppm


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## GillesF (3 Sep 2011)

Use 2 bulbs instead of 4 and reduce the lighting to 8 hours. The actual amount of light  creates such a high demand in nutritients that it becomes impossible keep with it. Light = energy = nutritients to grow. By removing two bulbs, you'll be able to meet the demand.

Increase your NO3, PO4 and TPN, nothing should reach 0 ppm. A shortage in nutritients causes algae, not an abundance. I recommend using the Estimative Index, check the sticky's on this forum.

Make sure you have good water circulation to avoid dead spots in your aquarium. This will also help to keep your tank cleaner. Remove as much algae as possible and prune the HC to remove some of the algae.

Last but not least: improve your CO2! Hair algae is generally the result of poor CO2 & distribution. Slowly (!) increase your CO2 and keep an eye out on the fish. In the meantime you can add some liquid CO2.

Do all this and wait a few weeks, most of the hair algae should  be gone.


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## Tom (3 Sep 2011)

frankzappatistas said:
			
		

> ...if you scroll down to Recommendations session recommends 12h/day...
> 
> ...all stick with 6h/day and two bulbs turned off to see if there is any improvement...



I'm running 5 hours at the moment


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## SunnyP (3 Sep 2011)

Nitrate levels is fine at 5ppm but not 0ppm otherwise plants will not be able to uptake nitrates. Also i would increase easycarbo to 2ml at least for 125L tank as I believe its 1ml for every 50L depending on density of plantation. When adding easycarbo spot drop it over areas where there is algae and it should start to disappear. 

Also add 2-3ppm of phosphate to water to allow better plant growth. Algae should not grow back unless greater than 5ppm.

Increase the flow of water if you can.

Fe is not always present in the pre-made plant food solutions and you should only need Fe if plants are going yellow. James planted tank site has information on some of the plant food products and what they contain. He also has lots of other useful information on planted tanks.

The link:
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm


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## fishfingers (3 Sep 2011)

you could try adding a couple of flying fox`s they would love that alge molley`s also eat the stuff


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## plantbrain (3 Sep 2011)

Looks like the tank will certainly need to readjust the CO2.
This alga is rather tough to beat otherwise.

I trim off all the plants that are infested or trim down to the nub.

Then fix the CO2.

Less light will help a long way with that. Excel/easy carb will not help much FYI...............

Some algae eaters love this, but those also tend to tear up HC, Riccia etc and other plants you have.


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## frankzappatistas (4 Sep 2011)

clonitza said:
			
		

> - add more plants and by more I mean more, plant it heavily



I suspect that is one of the reasons of my problem, unfortunately i can't find plants in local stores, i live in a small town in Greece, i have to drive 3 hours to find a legit shop with plant, i order some plants online from UK they arrived dead   . I'm expecting a new order tomorrow i hope these time i will be lucky.



			
				GillesF said:
			
		

> Last but not least: improve your CO2! Hair algae is generally the result of poor CO2 & distribution. Slowly (!) increase your CO2 and keep an eye out on the fish. In the meantime you can add some liquid CO2.


Drop checker indicates that CO2 is OK, PH-KH test also indicates that CO2 is 25ppm, i start dosing liquid CO2 these week.




			
				SunnyP said:
			
		

> Also add 2-3ppm of phosphate to water to allow better plant growth. Algae should not grow back unless greater than 5ppm.



Lot of people blame phosphate for algae that's the reason i was afraid adding to mach PO4, i will follow your advise, after all it can't get worse than it is already   


Thank you all for looking to my problem.


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## foxfish (4 Sep 2011)

Your test kits might not be very accurate, hardly anyone relies on them for this reason!

Your problems is almost certainly based around the light (to much ) & the Co2 (to  little).

The limiting factor as regards the C02 is based on your fish's tolerance to survive!

You can keep turning up the gas until you see any of your fish showing signs of stress or any behavioural changes.
Obversely if this happens, immediately reduce the gas a little & you will then know  you have enough C02!

The gas need to be distributed around the tank too, so you need plenty of flow to make sure the bottom is receiving as much gas as the middle.


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## ghostsword (5 Sep 2011)

Patience is the key here.

Turn lights down, as many have suggested, keep on top of co2, have it turn on three hours before lights on, and dose EI.

Do a 50% water change every three days, and after two weeks you will have got a hold on the situation.




.


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## GillesF (5 Sep 2011)

> Drop checker indicates that CO2 is OK, PH-KH test also indicates that CO2 is 25ppm, i start dosing liquid CO2 these week.



Yet your plants indicate that your CO2 is bad 
A drop checker is just an indication, you shouldn't rely on it 100%. If you really want to know if you have good CO2 check the condition of your plants. They will tell you what is wrong. Looking at your plants and learning from them is an important step in creating a healthy environment for your plants & fish!

The Ph-KH table doesn't work by the way because it doesn't take into account other elements that can influence the water, e.g. certain acids. The table almost always indicates a higher level of CO2 than in reality.


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## chilled84 (5 Sep 2011)

I have to say that this is the worst and most uglyist case i have seen lol. Not nice.    Hope you cure this and learn from it.


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## dw1305 (5 Sep 2011)

Hi all,


> I have to say that this is the worst and most uglyist case i have seen lol.


 I don't think it's ugly, in fact it looks almost ethereally beautiful, the "green veil" really fluoresces in a fantastic way. I bet with it swaying in the current, and the strands constantly shifting and shimmering, it is almost mesmerising to watch.

As a more serious point, these green algae (Chlorophyta) are physiologically almost identical to all of the higher plants, and make use of exactly the same nutrients and light spectra. The fact that your algae is so green, and has grown so quickly, shows that the potential for good plant growth is there.

I'm not a great fan of CO2 personally, (at least not until they can find a way of ensuring that you don't gas your fish). In this case the have enough nutrients (including CO2) and light for plant growth, you just need different plants, the ones that you want rather than the algae. 

This is one reason I like floating plants such as _Limnobium_, _Pistia_ and_ Salvinia_ or even _Lemna_, they have access to atmospheric CO2, so dissolved CO2 is irrelevant, their growth and colour gives you an index of the nutrient content of your water, and you can use them to reduce the incident light.

Once you've removed as much of the algae as you can, if you have a shorter/more diffuse light period and a greater plant biomass it will help control the algal growth. Once you have some form of stability, you can begin to alter one parameter at a time until you find a balance of light and nutrients that are acceptable to you.

Personally I'm willing to trade relatively slow plant growth (and a no CO2, low tech. set up) for stability, but others are successful using high light/EI/CO2, and can grow plants and produce aquascapes that are impossible without CO2 addition. 

Cheers Darrel


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## frankzappatistas (5 Sep 2011)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Your test kits might not be very accurate, hardly anyone relies on them for this reason!
> 
> Your problems is almost certainly based around the light (to much ) & the Co2 (to  little).
> 
> ...





			
				GillesF said:
			
		

> > Drop checker indicates that CO2 is OK, PH-KH test also indicates that CO2 is 25ppm, i start dosing liquid CO2 these week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm running CO2 24 hours/7 days a week, i do have a circulation pump (Hydor Koralia 900 - 900 l/h) and there is visual movement of water flow in my plants. OK I will increase CO2 but I will do it slowly, I don't want to stress or hurt my fish.

I will make small changes and I will wait


sorry about my English or any vocabulary mistakes.


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## ghostsword (5 Sep 2011)

Yes, you can have a nice looking tank without any CO2, I got two tanks like that, just moss, crypts and floating plants. 

You just need to keep an eye on the light, more light, more uptake of nutrients and CO2. Less light, and things are going slowly, so easily manageable. 

I use drop checkers, but use them for a guidance only, the fish are the real drop checkers, but you need to know your tank. It takes time, but you will get there for sure.


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## GillesF (5 Sep 2011)

What is the flow pattern in your tank?


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## frankzappatistas (5 Sep 2011)

GillesF said:
			
		

> What is the flow pattern in your tank?





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I have two filters
Eheim Classic 2213
Eheim 2224


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## GillesF (5 Sep 2011)

Place your Koralia at the left side. Now they sort of negate each other. Check the sticky @ Filtration subforum.


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## foxfish (5 Sep 2011)

[quote="

I'm running CO2 24 hours/7 days a week, i do have a circulation pump (Hydor Koralia 900 - 900 l/h) and there is visual movement of water flow in my plants. OK I will increase CO2 but I will do it slowly, I don't want to stress or hurt my fish.

I will make small changes and I will wait


sorry about my English or any vocabulary mistakes.[/quote]



Not many people run the C02 24 hours a day as the plants do not require the gas durring the lights off period.
This is not causing your algae problem but you are waisting the gas, better to run it on a timer.
Set the C02 to come on two hours before the lights come on & to switch off one hour before the light go off.


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## frankzappatistas (30 Sep 2011)

A quick update for everyone that has similar problems.

I added more plants
Reduce the light to 6 hours, algae grows very slow but is there
Reduce the light to 5 hours, hemianthus didn' t like that so i decided to leave ti to 6 hours
Start dosing EI, a lot of nutrients
Water changes twice a week
CO2 24/7
Easy Carbo recommended dosing


Conclusion

light is not the reason of algae presents it just makes it grow faster
Very Little or no algae on glass or healthy new plants. Algae problem remains over Hemianthus.

I think I will go for the Algexit solution that clonitza recommended until all plants are healthy 100%.


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## whatok (30 Sep 2011)

frankzappatistas said:
			
		

>



Got to say, i'm tempted to try an algae-only tank!

Maintenance would be a doddle!

maybe even a marine!


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## spyder (30 Sep 2011)

frankzappatistas said:
			
		

> Conclusion
> 
> light is not the reason of algae presents it just makes it grow faster
> Very Little or no algae on glass or healthy new plants. Algae problem remains over Hemianthus.



Did you trim back the Hemianthus and removed all infected parts?


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## frankzappatistas (1 Oct 2011)

I trim the plant on September 4th removing 80% of algae on it, two weeks later algae grew back, slowly but it grew back.
I trim it again on September 18th and it grew back again.
I trim the plant very low, if i go lower I will definitely damage it


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## spyder (1 Oct 2011)

Any algae left on any plant will grow. You have to remove it all or as close as you can. If you can't remove it all, spot dosing with easycarbo will help finish it off.

I wouldn't worry about damaging a plant that is already damaged. If the plant is beyond recovering the next step would be to think about replacing it. Fighting algae is a big battle and you have only just started. Sounds like your on the right track.

Good luck.


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