# Hello Staghorn



## Aqua360 (7 Apr 2016)

Afternoon all,

So given that I am still a beginner to the planted tank game, I've recently encountered staghorn algae in the last week or so! 

For a bit of background, I'm currently running co2 for 5.5 hours a day, enveloping my photo period of 4.5 hours.

Light is 8000K, 26W, 111 LEDS, 3415 lumens. I'm still clueless on lighting, but I'm basically convinced its pretty strong for the height of the tank (11 inches).

Fertiliser is currently TNC complete weekly fertiliser, which i like the ease of; I know its a waste of money (relatively), but for a tenner a year, I'm not going to cry.

water changes, 25% per week.

To be exact on the problem of the staghorn, I noticed it when my air pump slowed in power recently; perhaps reducing efficiency in my sponge filter and causing an imbalance. As such I replaced with a stronger pump on Tuesday, so i'm perhaps jumping on this a little quick.

I suspect this might not be my only issue though, my other concerns are that the liquid fertiliser (dosed at 1mm per 10 litres) may not be as exact as i could be with dry powder; my water changes are perhaps not enough? Furthermore, the short light period is a drag.

Would I be able to solve these problems, by perhaps raising my water change volume, and adding salvinia floating plants? I'm assuming just now that my tank has too much nutrients, but this is a guess; it might well be too little?

I'd rather have less fertiliser, than too much; and hopefully avoid el dosing as I'm not fond of 50% water changes.

anyway thanks for any replies or insights.


----------



## stu_ (7 Apr 2016)

Imho....
You should consider bigger weekly water changes.
The best advice I was given when starting out,was keep the lighting under control, and keep the tank clean.
Personally, 25% WC for a co2 enriched tank is asking for trouble.
(Cue a poster ,who successfully does this )


----------



## Lindy (7 Apr 2016)

You are running an air driven sponge filter while running pressurised co2? You'll be gassing off all your co2....


----------



## Aqua360 (8 Apr 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> You are running an air driven sponge filter while running pressurised co2? You'll be gassing off all your co2....



True, but I tend to bubble in at a much higher rate; so I still get a lime green drop checker at the far end from the diffuser...would it still be a problem? :S


----------



## AnhBui (8 Apr 2016)

Have you tried to neutralise chlorine in your water?


----------



## Aqua360 (8 Apr 2016)

AnhBui said:


> Have you tried to neutralise chlorine in your water?



yeah, I always treat the water a day or two in buckets, prior to water change


----------



## Aqua360 (8 Apr 2016)

I think i'll probably up my water changes, see how that goes for me guys


----------



## AnhBui (8 Apr 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> yeah, I always treat the water a day or two in buckets, prior to water change



What about using some kind of de-clorine stuff such as Brighty K? I often leave my water in a week before using it for a WC in case I have no Brighty K left.

I dont' think you need more than 20 - 30% water change. However you may need to do it every 2 or 3 days until it is completely removed.

What is your tank size?


----------



## Aqua360 (8 Apr 2016)

AnhBui said:


> What about using some kind of de-clorine stuff such as Brighty K? I often leave my water in a week before using it for a WC in case I have no Brighty K left.
> 
> I dont' think you need more than 20 - 30% water change. However you may need to do it every 2 or 3 days until it is completely removed.
> 
> What is your tank size?



I tend to use waterlife conditioner, its very good economy.

it's 77 litres when full,(I had previously thought 62, oops)


----------



## AnhBui (8 Apr 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> I tend to use waterlife conditioner, its very good economy.
> 
> it's 77 litres when full,(I had previously thought 62, oops)



Well then perhaps you should try this. And keep observing progress everyday

1. Water Change every 2 days
2. 6 hour photo period (3 - 1 - 3)
3. 24/7 CO2 1 - 2 bps
4. Manually remove it as much as you can. Brush or any tool you can think of 

An option you may consider is to use living bacteria vials such as Biodigest from Probio or similar product

And finally what type of plants on your tank now? Slow grow or stem plant or mix?


----------



## Aqua360 (19 Apr 2016)

Quick update on this, I discovered 0.25ppm of ammonia when i recently tested, along with zero nitrite and 10ppm nitrate.

This surprised me, as I'd perhaps rashly assumed the large size of the sponge filter; would easily handle the biological filtration side of things, especially given the low stock of 15 mountain minnows. It would also likely explain the staghorn and cherry shrimp deaths 

anyway since then the water changes have been upped, and a large hob filter added alongside the sponge (can't afford canister just now); so I'll hopefully see things turn around in the next week. Something that does concern me though, and I hope people will weigh in here; but is it possible the dissolved co2 has reduced the PH level so that the nitrifying bacteria have been rendered practically useless?

I know that below PH of 6 this tends to be the case, is it perhaps possible that because my drop checker is located near the air sponge and hob, that its giving a lime green colour at that part of the tank, but that the ph would be much lower at the other end? I may have to invest in another drop checker to test this.

P.S this tank has been established for months, cycle wise; hence the total surprise of the ammonia.


----------



## WaterLife (19 Apr 2016)

CO2 can lower pH down into the acidic range where nitrifying bacteria performance would be slowed way down or even stopped. However, with a pH that low, ammonia (NH3) would be ammonium (NH4), which is practically non-toxic, so ammonium itself would not be a cause for the deaths.

However the co2 would cause an excess of Hydrogen ions (H+), which the H+ would bond with Carbonates, having inverts not being able to obtain the Carbonates they require (Calcium Carbonate) for good exoskeleton health. And the acidic water would dissolve their exoskeletons.
Depending just how acidic the water is/got, acidic water can be potentially dangerous for all life (even fish).

But Neocaridinas are hardy and adaptable. Many people successfully keep them in soft acidic water with Caridinas, so low pH may not be the issue. Though GH, KH, temperature, TDS are also important, which the shrimp may be dying for one of those reasons, or maybe the fertilizer has copper or they just don't tolerate co2 well.

I would guess that you are just using a ceramic diffuser, and not a atomizer, and then along with running a airstone, I would really doubt you have really high levels of dissolved co2. Just because you are injecting a lot of co2 bubbles, doesn't mean it has dissolved. From the sounds of it, there are probably large co2 bubbles that are bubbling up to the water surface and the majority of it is off gassed into the atmosphere.

Test your pH though and figure that part out.

Maybe you tested ammonia too soon after feeding?


----------



## Aqua360 (19 Apr 2016)

WaterLife said:


> CO2 can lower pH down into the acidic range where nitrifying bacteria performance would be slowed way down or even stopped. However, with a pH that low, ammonia (NH3) would be ammonium (NH4), which is practically non-toxic, so ammonium itself would not be a cause for the deaths.
> 
> However the co2 would cause an excess of Hydrogen ions (H+), which the H+ would bond with Carbonates, having inverts not being able to obtain the Carbonates they require (Calcium Carbonate) for good exoskeleton health. And the acidic water would dissolve their exoskeletons.
> Depending just how acidic the water is/got, acidic water can be potentially dangerous for all life (even fish).
> ...



I've got a drop checker at the far end of the tank from the diffuser, which sits at a steady blue until my co2 switches on; whereupon after 30-45 mins its reaches lime green consistently.

Nope, checked ammonia in the morning couple of days ago; on a whim, totally didn't expect to see the readings.


----------



## WaterLife (19 Apr 2016)

Sure you are using a 4dKH reference solution in the drop checker?
Check the pH before lights/co2 comes on and just before lights/co2 go off.


----------



## ian_m (19 Apr 2016)

Ammonia kits are affected by dechlorinator, giving a false positive ie ammonia reading when in fact no ammonia is present, this is due to the reagents in the test kit breaking down the dechlorinator and releasing ammonia. You should not use hobby ammonia kits if you have ever used or are using dechlorinators.

If you really want to test for ammonia use these type test kits (£70 odd) that are interference free.
http://www.lamotte.com/en/aquarium-fish-farming/individual-test-kits/3304-02.html

Anyway if you suspect ammonia present, just do frequent water changes and/or add Prime. You waterlife conditioner is very poor economy (about 10 x more expensive) compared to Prime.


----------



## Aqua360 (21 Apr 2016)

ian_m said:


> Ammonia kits are affected by dechlorinator, giving a false positive ie ammonia reading when in fact no ammonia is present, this is due to the reagents in the test kit breaking down the dechlorinator and releasing ammonia. You should not use hobby ammonia kits if you have ever used or are using dechlorinators.
> 
> If you really want to test for ammonia use these type test kits (£70 odd) that are interference free.
> http://www.lamotte.com/en/aquarium-fish-farming/individual-test-kits/3304-02.html
> ...



lol I can't afford a £70 kit, perhaps someday! I usually just use the API master kit, but along with the reasons mentioned; it's probably time for a fresh one.

I haven't been able to source Prime here in the UK, do you order from a specific site that you'd be able to provide the link for if possible please?

Quick update on my situation, lots of BBA and staghorn just now; too much to manually remove. Once the hob has been running for 2 weeks, i'll look to phase out the sponge; just in case it is indeed the source of the problems.

I'll manually test the ph when i get back today, for a sanity check. Tank had very minimal algae, only some bba in high light areas for the first 5-6 weeks or so; but guess i'm learning now how hard it is.

The fertiliser is TNC complete, dosed once a week for the volume of tank water; in case i neglected to mention.

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice, hopefully I can sort this soon; really does put a downer on things.


----------



## ian_m (21 Apr 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> I haven't been able to source Prime here in the UK


????

Loads of places, most local fish shops...

https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/se...5.html?zenid=cbb5bcacfe7a343945ea6f926b28e8f5
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=seachem+prime
http://www.swelluk.com/seachem-prime/


----------



## Aqua360 (21 Apr 2016)

ian_m said:


> ????
> 
> Loads of places, most local fish shops...
> 
> ...



thanks, my local lfs doesn't stock it


----------



## ian_m (21 Apr 2016)

Worth trying other fish shops as sometimes they stock bottles with 33% extra free. So despite fish shop being more expensive than online you get better value due to extra 33%.


----------



## Dr Mike Oxgreen (21 Apr 2016)

Prime can be ordered via Amazon.


----------



## stu_ (21 Apr 2016)

And Aqua Essentials


----------



## Aqua360 (21 Apr 2016)

Thanks guys


----------

