# BGA in Akadama



## idris (15 Mar 2021)

Is this BGA in the Akadama of what had, till recently, been a near dormant tank?






Having done a big rescape a couple of weeks ago, replaced nearly all the plants, and started slowly introducing new livestock (algae crew first) it'll be a massive PITA if I have to strip the tank again. 
I've read some comments about Blue Exit, but others suggesting that if BGA is in the substrate, it's probably there to stay.

Other than water changes and a black-out, any thoughts?


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## MirandaB (15 Mar 2021)

Yes that's definitely Cyanobacteria....not tried the Blue exit treatment myself so can't say whether that works or not.


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## john dory (15 Mar 2021)

just remove it,whenever you see it.
You don't have to do a full blown water change,everytime..just enough to eradicate all visible BGA.
dig down,into the substrate,a little bit...it loves to hide there.


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## john dory (15 Mar 2021)

Like removing a tumour.
Take the growth...and a margin.


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## idris (16 Mar 2021)

Looking at the tank in daylight, I can see a couple more areas where I suspect BGA in the substrate. In each case it is under the surface and against the front glass.

1) If I were to black out the areas where it is not evident above the surface (eg with gaffer tape) for a week or so, could that be sufficient to halt it's growth in those areas?

2) I've read that once BGA is in substrate, it's difficult to eradicate. If it is below the surface of the substrate, but is photosynthetic, how does that work?

3) I can think of three possible causes of the outbreak:

The tank was pretty much untouched for around 2yrs, but somehow healthy enough to keep one or two Amano shrimp and a several Kuhli Loaches alive, without water changes, light, filter cleaning or even feeding. As part of the rescape, all the substrate got churned up before the tank was replanted.
I've recently bought new plants.
I've switched from tap water to using rain water from a water butt.
I suspect the dormancy and rescaping is the most likely cause, and the new plants least likely, but is the water butt a possible source?


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## MrDFI (16 Mar 2021)

In my case, the new plants brought in the cyanobacteria (BGA). With a combo of EasyLife Exit Blue and a three and a half day total blackout, I managed to get rid of it. I can recommend this cure. It proved to be durable (it was 6 weeks ago). I did not experience any harmful side effects on the plants and fish.


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## MirandaB (16 Mar 2021)

It's possible it's come from the water butt,I've had issues in the past with it after using rainwater and can only presume that's where it might have came from.


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## idris (16 Mar 2021)

MrDFI said:


> In my case, the new plants brought in the cyanobacteria (BGA). With a combo of EasyLife Exit Blue and a three and a half day total blackout, I managed to get rid of it. I can recommend this cure. It proved to be durable (it was 6 weeks ago). I did not experience any harmful side effects on the plants and fish.Did you have it in the substrate?


Good to know. Did you have it in the substrate?
I've read conjecture that Exit Blue just deals with "stains" and not the BGA itself. Any thoughts?


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## MrDFI (17 Mar 2021)

In my case the tank (about 160 l net water volume) and the substrate (Tropica Aqua Soil) were new (one month old). First I saw BGA on a few new plants. Later there were some green patches on the surface of the substrate around the new plants. I do not know the effect mechanism of Exit Blue, but the cure was very successful. During the total blackout I did not use the CO2 injection, but the external filter and the air pump were on constantly. The BGA needs light for life, it can live only on the surface and not in the soil.


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## Courtneybst (17 Mar 2021)

I don't know if it's linked but I notice your substrate looks exactly how mine did when I got a BGA outbreak. It was kind of powdery and dense in terms of grain distance and producing gas bubbles. I think something in the substrate may have become anaerobic but that's an educated guess. I picked up that the BGA was coming from the substrate. I also had issues though with inert larger grain size that was relatively thin, so what gives?

Since then I'm using Alfagrog under the substrate, running at 23-25c instead of 25-30c, doing regular water changes and sucking up detritus and reduced lighting intensity by 50-60%, added fresh robust plants and there's no sign of it. Early days but I think a combination of factors make it cozy for BGA. You just need to make it less cozy.


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## jaypeecee (17 Mar 2021)

Hi @idris 

Yes, you have cyanobacteria (aka BGA) in your tank - the unmistakeable blue green colour. You may find something of interest in this thread:






						Cyanobacteria Identification - At Last!
					

Hi Folks,  Like many other aquarists, I have had cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') grow in my tanks. And I started reading about this stuff. Of course, I initially thought BGA was algae. Why else would it be known as BGA (Blue-Green Algae)? But I later discovered that it's not an algae at all. It's a...



					www.ukaps.org
				




In the above thread, you will see that I had success with Easy-Life _Blue Exit_. Now is the time to act before it gets out of control. And, at that point, _Blue Exit _may not be effective.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (17 Mar 2021)

MirandaB said:


> It's possible it's come from the water butt,I've had issues in the past with it after using rainwater and can only presume that's where it might have came from.


Hi @MirandaB 

That's very interesting. I have made a note of your observation.

Out of interest, do you use a tap water conditioner (e.g. Seachem _Prime_) on your rainwater? I believe some people do - just in case there are any 'nasties' in the water.

JPC


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## MirandaB (17 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @MirandaB
> 
> That's very interesting. I have made a note of your observation.
> 
> ...


I don't as I keep a bag of carbon in the water butt and periodically run a pump in there to make sure it's circulated through it.
Just got a microscope so going to look at a sample of it under there and see if I can see any.


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## jaypeecee (17 Mar 2021)

MirandaB said:


> Just got a microscope so going to look at a sample of it under there and see if I can see any.


Hi @MirandaB 

Ah, jolly good! I'd be interested to know if it's the same species as that which I referenced in post #11 above. It's one of the filamentous types - Oscillatoria - so called because the filaments oscillate from side to side.

Please keep us updated.

JPC


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## idris (18 Mar 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @idris
> 
> Yes, you have cyanobacteria (aka BGA) in your tank - the unmistakeable blue green colour. You may find something of interest in this thread:
> 
> ...


Having been reading this thread (and understanding some of it) one thing that stood out to me is how low Nitrate can lead to BGA. Doesn't that imply that, once a tank is properly cycled, having too few fish can make BGA more likely?


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## jaypeecee (18 Mar 2021)

idris said:


> Having been reading this thread (and understanding some of it) one thing that stood out to me is how low Nitrate can lead to BGA.


Hi @idris 

Somewhere in my archives, I believe that the connection between low nitrate and cyanobacteria has been called into question. I will check this out further because it comes up a lot on forums. I have this hunch that it has been disproven but I will pursue this and report back on my findings.

JPC


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## dw1305 (19 Mar 2021)

Hi all, 


jaypeecee said:


> I believe that the connection between low nitrate and cyanobacteria has been called into question.


It is possibly <"this thread?">. The reasoning would be that not all cyanobacteria (Blue-green Algae) are nitrogen fixing ("diazotropic"), and some naturally occur in <"eutrophic conditions">.

cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (19 Mar 2021)

dw1305 said:


> It is possibly <"this thread?">. The reasoning would be that not all cyanobacteria (Blue-green Algae) are nitrogen fixing ("diazotropic"), and some naturally occur in <"eutrophic conditions">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Good afternoon, Darrel

You are correct in saying that not all cyanobacteria are nitrogen-fixing. Indeed, the cyano that I investigated in my tank(s) - Oscillatoria - is one such example.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (19 Mar 2021)

idris said:


> I've read conjecture that Exit Blue just deals with "stains" and not the BGA itself. Any thoughts?


Hi @idris 

There is a lot of misleading information on the Net. The use of the word "stain" in this context is possibly related to a cyano 'treatment' containing that name. What is stopping you from wanting to try _Blue Exit_? It worked for me and it has worked for others. There is good science in support of its use. But, if you do decide to try it, please read through the thread to which I previously linked. And, feel free to ask questions whilst putting it to the test. Unfortunately, _Blue Exit_ does not come with any guarantees. But nor does anything else.

And, just in case you're wondering - no, I am not an Easy-Life employee!

It's your call.

JPC


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## idris (23 Mar 2021)

4 days in complete darkness and one more day of Blue Exit to go.

I had been using some TNC  Carbon before, particularly in the hope of it helping the Dwarf Hairgrass establish, but figured I should stop that for the moment. And the lights were on for 7hrs.
In terms of getting back to usual,  is it now worth staying off the Carbon and running a reduced photo-period for a week or so?


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## jaypeecee (23 Mar 2021)

idris said:


> In terms of getting back to usual, is it now worth staying off the Carbon and running a reduced photo-period for a week or so?


Hi @idris 

Let's wait until tomorrow when you can give us an update on your tank. If the _Blue Exit_ has been effective, the Cyano should be starting to blacken. We can possibly increase the dose of _Blue Exit_ depending on how effective it's been. When you refer to 'Carbon', is this a liquid carbon fertilizer? If so, it may interfere with the effectiveness of _Blue Exit_. Possibly more important than reducing the photoperiod would be to reduce the lighting intensity (brightness). Or, you could combine both.

JPC


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## idris (23 Mar 2021)

Unless there's new growth of BGA, it's unlikely the old will be visible. I tried to scoop out what I could see,  but much of it just dispersed like dust as soon as I disturbed the substrate around it. 

Yes,  the TNC Carbon is liquid. I believe its 2% Glutaraldehyde. It's couple of years old, so may have broken down, but it's been kept cool and in the dark so might still have some potency. I assume using it at the moment could help the BGA, which is why I've stopped using it. 

It'll be difficult to lower the intensity of lighting. The only way to do that would be disconnect one tubes within the hood, leaving bare conductors exposed above the water.


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## jaypeecee (23 Mar 2021)

idris said:


> It'll be difficult to lower the intensity of lighting.


Hi @idris 

OK, fair enough. Only do what is safe. That goes without saying.

I look forward to your update tomorrow.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (26 Mar 2021)

Hi @idris 

What's the latest news on your Cyano/BGA problem? It would be really good to know.

JPC


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## idris (30 Mar 2021)

Sorry for the delay replying. I can see no signs of BGA on the surface now, but the patch was small and I inadvertently dispersed it before I could scoop it out so that in itself is not conclusive.
There are still some patches of darkness against the front glass under the surface of the substrate, and I'm concerned they could be BGA, but I'm going to keep an eye on them over the next week or two to see if they bloom, as it will be a PITA to deal with them _mechanically_.
Watch this space.


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## jaypeecee (30 Mar 2021)

idris said:


> There are still some patches of darkness against the front glass under the surface of the substrate, and I'm concerned they could be BGA, but I'm going to keep an eye on them over the next week or two to see if they bloom, as it will be a PITA to deal with them _mechanically_.


Hi @idris 

Thanks for the update.

Cyano/BGA often grows against the front glass panel beneath the substrate and there are good reasons for this, one of which is the incident light falling on the tank. You can eliminate this permanently/temporarily by covering this area with black tape, card or whatever falls readily to hand. 

I suggest that you continue dosing _Blue Exit_. Easy-Life were very conservative when suggesting a dosage regime. If you take a look at the following, you should find some guidance regarding dosage:






						Cyanobacteria Identification - At Last!
					

Hi Folks,  Like many other aquarists, I have had cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') grow in my tanks. And I started reading about this stuff. Of course, I initially thought BGA was algae. Why else would it be known as BGA (Blue-Green Algae)? But I later discovered that it's not an algae at all. It's a...



					www.ukaps.org
				




In that thread, you should see that I also used a UV-C sterilizer to kill off any spores/filaments of Cyano in the water column. But you may not need to resort to this.

JPC


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## idris (1 Apr 2021)

[Cue disappointed sigh]
It's back in exactly the same spot it was before.
So I guess I'll be working my way through the rest of the bottle of Blue Exit.
I'd considered taping up the glass in front of the effected substrate, so that's now gonna happen too.
I'm reluctant to cover the tank completely as it played hell with the Wysteria which got both quite etiolated and the bottom melted, as did a.few leaves on the Amazon Swords and Anubias Barteri. But the lights are certainly going off for a few more days. I've also lost several Neons and possibly Amanos, though there are possibly multiple factors at play.


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## jaypeecee (1 Apr 2021)

idris said:


> So I guess I'll be working my way through the rest of the bottle of Blue Exit.


Hi @idris 

Not necessarily. Please tell us more about your current _Blue Exit _dosing regime. When the Cyano starts to change in colour from blue-green to black, you know that something is happening. The _Blue Exit_ dosage can be increased beyond Easy-Life's suggested dose. In the thread to which I keep referring, you will find a lot more information about _Blue Exit_ dosing. I don't want to go by memory and give you the wrong figures.

Have you recently measured any water parameters in this tank? If so, what figures have you got?

JPC


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## idris (2 Apr 2021)

I've read the article, thanks.
So far I've followed the instructions on the Blue Exit bottle (call me old fashioned 😁) so 25ml (250L tanks, probably 220L water) once a day for 5 days. The tank was also covered for 5 days. I've lost track but I think that was a week ago. Yesterday I went back to dosing 25ml.
I've got basic test strips - I'll use them and let you know.


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## john dory (2 Apr 2021)

Manual removal,is the key.
Periodic cleaning of the glass(below substrate level)ensures continued absence.


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## jaypeecee (2 Apr 2021)

john dory said:


> Manual removal,is the key.


Hi @john dory 

Whilst manual removal of the _visible_ Cyanobacteria undoubtedly helps in controlling this invasive bacteria, it often isn't sufficient to eliminate Cyano. Many people here on UKAPS have relied on manual removal - only to find that the Cyano returned after a week or so. It's just not possible to ensure that every single cell or filament of the Cyano has been removed. The words 'needle' and 'haystack' come to mind. As Cyanobacteria are classed as Gram-negative bacteria*, it is not wise to tackle them with antibiotics (which are not permitted in the UK anyway). The active ingredient of _Blue Exit_ is salicylic acid, which acts as a bactericide. I found it to be effective. But, it probably needs to be used as soon as Cyano is seen in a tank. And, no, I have no commercial interests in Easy-Life whatsoever.

* beneficial filtration nitrifying bacteria are also Gram-negative

JPC


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## john dory (4 Apr 2021)

I just suck it out.


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## idris (9 Apr 2021)

Apologies for the radio silence.
Current status : Tank lights off, with the glass masked where the substrate meets it, and dosing 25ml Blue Exit daily.
Water tests: 
ph 7.3
kh = 120
gh >180
Ammonia = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 < 20
Am going to try to come up with a way to "suck out" what I suspect is BGA below the substrate. It might not be BGA as it's significant'y darker than the positively ID'd BGA on th e surface, but it'll do no harm to get rid of it.


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