# Does 2 go into 1?



## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Good morning all, 

This idea has been plaguing me for a while. Since a recent near catastrophe with an inline UP atomiser I'd like to fit a co2 reactor instead. Due to owning a Fluval F-90 tank which is intended to be minimal in accessories on show kind of tank (drilled etc) I'd like to attempt the following:

Is it possible to attach the Eheim output hose (from the reactor) onto the output hose from my Fluval external filter via a splitter? The water in take for the Eheim would come via a separate input lily pipe. 

Many thanks in advance for any help in this 

Kind regards 
Matt 


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

Matty123 said:


> Since a recent near catastrophe with an inline UP atomiser



 what happened



Matty123 said:


> I'd like to fit a co2 reactor instead.



Just added one (well two in series) 





testing them ATM have one JBL 19/25 atomiser fitted after ehiem 3000+ on independent line and the atomiser feeds the APS filter boosters which has APS Bio Balls in. Only on second day today but tank was pretty clear of bubbles yesterday. I say pretty clear as it was WC day so always lots of bubbles after WC. But so far Their GREAT.

Do plan to have it all fitted after the Fluval FX6 once all sorted.

Hope thats some help


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## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Zeus. said:


> what happened
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Zeus, 

Blimey that looks like the dashboard on the stair ship enterprise! Nicely done dude! 

Well I had a slight hiss coming from the atomiser and done what we all do and tightened up the plastic tightening sleeves and the hiss became a gush! So I'm there holding both ends of the atomiser thinking s*** what am I going to do?! My girlfriends out and apart from using my nose to disengage the filter flow arm whilst the water was gushing over my extension I was doomed! My laminate flooring has never looked cleaner because of it but is now warping in places. I brought another atomiser from Amazon a couple of days ago and that leaked as well due to a split in it! So understandably I'm dubious in getting another one - don't really mind the 7 up look. I've already got a Sera and mini Max reactor so I'd wanna set one of those back up without the mini sewer look this time! So is ok to use a splitter of some descript? 

Kind regards 
Matt 


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

so you plan to use a splitter - Y joint



 on the 14mm tubing



then connect to the bottom of the return on the right in below pic




So I take it both lines will be drawing water from the same feed on the left in above pic. With the aid of another Y joint 
In which case will it work Yes but flow will be restricted by them both using the same feed and return - it will be bottlenecked, So if the flow of each is say 1000L/H so should be able to get 2000L/H you wont but how much I dunno. Do the pumps have similar flow rates, if not one could dominate the flow with the bottleneck in the plumbing.


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## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Zeus. said:


> so you plan to use a splitter - Y joint
> View attachment 109582
> on the 14mm tubing
> View attachment 109581
> ...


 
Thank you so much for the detailed illustration and help Zeus it's much appreciated! That's spot on to what I had in mind! I think I'm going to settle for the JBL inline diffuser, it looks a hell of a lot sturdier and better quality than the UP. I'm aware the bubbles from this unit will be bigger than the UP one but I am hoping I'll be able to use the ceramic disc from the UP and install it into the JBL with a bit of cutting to length and tweaking. I do fear something going pop with that amount of pressure feeding from 2 outlets to 1 inlet with the same diameter and I just don't feel at ease with the idea and I don't think my poor laminate flooring can take much more soaking. I guess I can put my reactors up for sale and with the monies made buy a few new sheets of laminate! 

Thanks again for your help! 

Kind regards 
Matt 


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

Wait



Matty123 said:


> I had a slight hiss coming from the atomiser



The hiss is normal all my atomisers Hiss there heads off when injecting CO2. The JBL one starts with a little 'pop' when the non return valve on the JBL opens as the CO2 gets to pressure before expelling the water from the outer chamber as the JBL one floods as soon as the CO2 pressure drops. Think you just got over cautious and over did it on the tightening. I have serveral Up atomisers which all Hiss as does the JBL one I have. The only reason I went for the JBL is it comes in 19/25 fitting for pipes. The JBL does have very fine bubbles at low injection rates, as soon as the BBS rate gets high enough and the pressure in the outer chamber the bubbles increase in size.

You could install the Fluval filter and reactor in series, not ideal maybe, but then again the increased pressure in the reactor may get it to work more like a cerges reactor and also increase the CO2 uptake in the water - Your call (and risk OFC) I know what I would do   are the flow rates of the filter and pump on reactor similar ?


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## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Zeus. said:


> Wait
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah the pump is 1000 litres per hour and the Fluval 406 on paper is around 1450 litres. I've heard that diffusers (tiny bubbles) are better as they 'hit' the leaves and stick and 'apparently' is better for the plants to uptake? 


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

To test for CO2 leaks I use an old washing up liquid bottle some water add some washing up liquid shake it up and squeeze some bubbles out and cover the fitting I want to check.

eg




when the pipes are connected OFC if CO2 is escaping it will show by BIG bubbles, use same trick on bubble counter and solenoid valve too - caution if the solenoid valve is 240Volts , if it is keep one hand in pocket then the shock wont kill you, wearing dry wellys helps too.


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## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Zeus. said:


> To test for CO2 leaks I use an old washing up liquid bottle some water add some washing up liquid shake it up and squeeze some bubbles out and cover the fitting I want to check.
> 
> eg
> View attachment 109588
> ...



Ha ha! Valid and useful advise there Zeus! Oh the diffuser broke into 2 pieces as it split near the main body of it. I doubt any involvement from me caused this. I'd buy replacement screw end pieces but I'm dubious to continue to use these units. The one I bought in the week from Amazon had a split on the unit end screw piece and I'm in the process of sending it back! 


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

Matty123 said:


> I've heard that diffusers (tiny bubbles) are better as they 'hit' the leaves and stick and 'apparently' is better for the plants to uptake?



Heard that too myself as it helps increase the local [CO2] around the bottom of the leaf which is where the main concentration of the 'Stomata' are which is where a plant does is main gaseous exchange. Smaller bubbles have a larger surface area to volume ratio so they diffuse into water faster and stay in the current on tank longer too so less waste. However the CO2 has to diffuse into the water in/around the stomata and then its taken up. But if the localised [CO2] of the water is ideal and you have good water flow then I can see no reason why bubbles on the leaves should have a major advantage. All gaseous exchange in plants and mammals takes place by first diffusing into water or out of it. So with a reactor increasing the CO2 uptake into the water therefore better water [CO2] and good flow plants should do well, plus use less CO2 and no bubbles in tank. Win Win


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## Zeus. (6 Aug 2017)

Matty123 said:


> Amazon had a split on the unit end screw piece



I got one like that too off e-bay emailed them and they sent another, plus have some spare parts now.


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## Matty123 (6 Aug 2017)

Zeus. said:


> I got one like that too off e-bay emailed them and they sent another, plus have some spare parts now.



Think I may opt for the JBL because of the German efficiency. A few bubbles are a pleasing in some respects! 


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## Franks (20 Aug 2017)

I'm one day in to my JBL inline diffuser. I was hugely disappointed when installed compared to my in-tank bazooka which diffused like smoke. The build quality of the JBL is amazing - you just know it's going to last forever, it's German .

But, the bubbles when turned on were very large out of the hose outlet. I immediately thought it was a piece of tat and concluded it can't possibly be saturating the water column with co2.

I'm now on day 2 and visually it's still putting out large bubbles BUT my thoughts are now of immense praise! The large bubbles compared to the bazooka don't actually matter. My DC is a great colour and only took 1 hour from gas on to glow up lime green on a 155ltr tank (bazooka would take at least 2!) AND I'd reduced the flow in fear of gassing the fish.

Appearances can be deceiving. All that co2 is being forced out of the filter stream whereas before it was simply emitted into a large volume of water - albeit via tiny smoke like bubbles which assumption would have you believe the large surface area appearance would be better - wrong, wrong, wrong!

This for me proves that it's a consistency issue and also perhaps in relating to co2 being expelled in a slightly water pressurised environment. Co2 introduced at a consistent rate to a tiny area of pressurised water is far more effective in quickly creating an aquarium environment completely saturated in dissolved gas over simply adding it into the tank directly.

The plants are also pearling more than they ever had. 

Happy 


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## Matty123 (21 Aug 2017)

Franks said:


> I'm one day in to my JBL inline diffuser. I was hugely disappointed when installed compared to my in-tank bazooka which diffused like smoke. The build quality of the JBL is amazing - you just know it's going to last forever, it's German .
> 
> But, the bubbles when turned on were very large out of the hose outlet. I immediately thought it was a piece of tat and concluded it can't possibly be saturating the water column with co2.
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree with you more! I much prefer a few bubbles against a crystal clear water background opposed to a tank resembling ye olde London Town in 1800's fog era/some of your fish having a crafty fag behind your rocks and plants. The build quality is solid German design. I have so much more faith in this unit opposed to UP's. I've had it running for just over 2 weeks now and I'm very happy with it! 


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