# Improving a lawn for insects



## mort (16 Jul 2019)

Another day another garden related question. My brother inherited a lawn when he moved house, only 4 doors down from me, and it was in a pretty poor state with lots of clover, moss, the odd bald patch and some dandelions. Now he's pretty much the same as me in that he's not that fussed if it isn't perfect as long as it's green-ish. 
Having briefly seen the end of gardeners world talking about wild flowers it got me considering what I can add to it to make it more attractive to insects. I'm not looking for a meadow as it's a busy cottage style garden and the borders look best when they are well defined, I'm just looking for species that could bolster the appeal and cope with the odd mowing but not mind only a few inches of grass. He already has white clover so I'm thinking red clover would work but not sure what other species might do ok (thinking daisy might work well)?

Many thanks in advance.


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## SRP3006 (16 Jul 2019)

I have white clover and red (purple) clover mixed into my lawn to help drainage. 
Like most new builds my subsoil clay has replaced the topsoil when they dug the foundations. Therefore the drainage was very poor for the grass roots, meaning the grass would drown during the winter months followed by me replanting. To the best of my knowledge clover has deep roots so this has improved drainage and the overall look. Plus it's attracts bees and insects when it flowers. 

Mine is mowed short and copes very well.


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## dw1305 (16 Jul 2019)

Hi all,





mort said:


> pretty poor state with lots of clover, moss, the odd bald patch and some dandelions.


Perfect, basically the poorer the soil is the better. Phosphorus is the real killer of biodiversity, once you've added it you can never get rid of it and it will keep making the grass grow for decades. I've spent 25 years mowing our lawn, and taking the clippings off, but I've never managed to really deplete the nutrients. I think the is is because the lady who lived in our house before us had three lurchers that p*ssed and cr*pped all over the lawn. 

The front lawn and gravelled parking area I just converted into a flower patch and pond, much less maintenance and many more insects. You can see the lawn and front garden in <"Get your garden out"">. I replanted the Primroses and Quaking grass from the front lawn into the gravel,and they have done very well.  





mort said:


> He already has white clover so I'm thinking red clover would work but not sure what other species might do ok (thinking daisy might work well)?


 Yes, Daisy (_Bellis perennis_) you could also try Yarrow (_Achillea millefolium_),Bird's-foot Trefoil (_Lotus corniculatus_), Cats-Ear (_Hypochaeris radicata_), <"Self Heal (_Prunella vulgaris_)"> and  Lesser Hawkbit (_Leontodon saxatilis_).  They should all survive mowing. Red clover (_Trifolium pratense_) tends to mow out over time.





mort said:


> borders look best when they are well defined


One mowers width around the edge regularly?

There are web-sites with advice, I like the charities <"Buglife"> and the <"Bumblebee Conservation Trust">.

cheers Darrel


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## tam (17 Jul 2019)

Crocus and snow drops. They are bulbs so a little more effort to plant but you can use a corer or fork tines and you only have to do it once. They'll be some of the first flowers in spring (late Feb/early March) so very helpful to the early insects and your lawn will be a carpet of colour when everything else is still sleeping off winter. You just avoid mowing until they are over, which if you aren't a keen mower is probably about the time you'll start thinking about it anyway.

This was the first year after planting, but they split and increase or you can add more bulbs - lots of colours to choose from and you can buy individual types or mixes pretty cheap.


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## mort (17 Jul 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Perfect, basically the poorer the soil is the better. Phosphorus is the real killer of biodiversity, once you've added it you can never get rid of it and it will keep making the grass grow for decades. I've spent 25 years mowing our lawn, and taking the clippings off, but I've never managed to really deplete the nutrients. I think the is is because the lady who lived in our house before us had three lurchers that p*ssed and cr*pped all over the lawn.
> 
> The front lawn and gravelled parking area I just converted into a flower patch and pond, much less maintenance and many more insects.



I dug up our front grass several years ago and swapped it for a small ponds, lots of nectar rich flowers and pyracantha/berberis hedging for the birds. I've done the same with one side of my brothers garden and the grass is on the other. The grass is a thin strip maybe 2.5m at its widest but the borders snake in and out making it narrower, it looks like a cricket wicket and about the samended length. That means it's hard to do a meadow look as if you leave a strip around the circumference and one up the middle to hang the washing and your left with a tiny bit.

I'm not sure if the grass is poor enough to do much and it does get the odd fertilisation from the local cats. The picture below is one of the better areas but hopefully enough open areas for stuff to grow ok. Last autumn I scarified the while thing and it was really really bare, so plenty of scope for new plants.


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## SRP3006 (17 Jul 2019)

During the summer months use your water change waste to water the grass. Does the grass a world of good.


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## mort (17 Jul 2019)

SRP3006 said:


> During the summer months use your water change waste to water the grass. Does the grass a world of good.



That goes on the fruit and vegetables. The best beans I've grown have been using fish poo.


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## mort (17 Jul 2019)

This is the boring patch. There is some great inspiration in the self heal link above, the clover as the main plant plus the succession of others looks great to me so I'll give it a go.








 

95% of the plants have been grown from cuttings or seed as it was a really boring blank canvas. Mostly salvia, linum, campion, borage, foxgloves, lynchnis, achillea, and veronica. I've got about 100 eryngium, echinops and red achillea to fit into the borders with most going down the allotment for my insect feeding zone, a 6x6m mix of shasta daisy,  achilles,  toad flax,  comfrey, lavender, fennel, foxgloves and campion.

Best to scarify the grass in the autumn, add some sand and then reseed before winter?


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## dw1305 (17 Jul 2019)

Hi all, 





mort said:


> Best to scarify the grass in the autumn, add some sand and then reseed before winter?


I'd just leave the lawn, you could try plug planting some of the earlier suggestions and then just slightly relax the mowing regime next year.

The only thing I would change would be to get rid of the scalloped edge on the border to the right.  I'd can still have it as a single curve, but just with much wider border. You can plant marjoram (_Origanum vulgare_), Ox-eye Daisies (_Leucanthemum vulgare_) etc into the new bit of border. A really good, long and later flowering, bee magnet, Marjoram is _Origanum laevigatum, _it really is a good plant and you can use it as a herb as well. 

The advantage of the wider border is that it will allow you to have larger perennials like _Acanthus spinosus_, _Cephalaria gigantea/C. alpina, Persicaria amplexicaulis_ and _Echinops ritro. Helenium_ and _Echinacea_ don't enjoy life with us, but they are other possibilities.

If the expense isn't too great I'd also put a series of block pavers along the new border edge. You need them so they are just below lawn level and then you can run the mower straight over the pavers, it saves a lot of mucking about. I don't mind if the border falls onto the lawn, but I don't want the lawn grass in the border. 

You don't need to lay the blocks properly, but you can bed them on sand if you want them to remain relatively level. 

cheers Darrel


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## mort (18 Jul 2019)

I'm working on expanding the borders. I moved both sides in a foot earlier this year and added about two feet at either end. The whole plot was just bare grass last year and I'm trying to expand it when I have grown stuff to fill the gaps and also when my brothers not there as it's his garden and easier to seek forgiveness than permission. I've taken your suggestions on board and a nice wide border is what I'd prefer.

For the plant suggestions there is a little bit of a happy accident as I already have acanthus growing up on the left, it's just obscured by some toad flax at the moment, plus another to go in that I've been growing. I have added a dozen echinops ritro which are at the back of the right hand border but this year's seedlings (they could be blue or white as one lot came up and the other didn't and I didn't label them). I added helinium last year along with some echinacea but I think they could have been slugged. I will take a look at the originum vulgar as it looks similar to the hemp agrimony that I'd added to my basket last night. I'll also look into your other suggestion, the persicaria I already know but the cephalaria looks nice and I already have knautia in there and wanted to add some similar type species.

Really appreciate the advice, many thanks.


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## mort (7 Aug 2019)

I got some seeds to try and will probably wait until the autumn to sow a few then try and raise a few for plugs if I can. I ended up with selfheal, cats ear (although a few have popped up on there own this summer), birds food trefoil and some red clover as I wanted some green manure for the allotment anyway. I also got to add to the border and around the pond some common knap weed,  herb valerian, cirsium pink, lythrum rosy gem, linaria Canon j Went (as I mostly have the purple variety now and the bees go mad for it), herb agrimony (as I saw some on the local golf course and it had nice flower stems similar to my digitalis lutea) and finally some hemp agrimony for around the pond (which I ordered before I realised I already had it but it just wasn't flowering yet). All that for less than a tenner to so if the slugs go mad like they have with my eryngiums (normally it's the echinops that get shredded but this year they have broadened their tastes) it won't be that bad. 

I'll also grab some crocus when it gets to bulb seasons and I've been dividing the abundant bluebells, snowdrops and grape hyacinths that were already there.

Thanks again for all the help guys, I'll update next year.


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## Edvet (7 Aug 2019)

Make sure to add some " insect hotel" like structures.


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## tam (7 Aug 2019)

Some of the chunkier flower stems are good bamboo insect hotel alternatives - I've used hollyhock cut to size and dried before.


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## sparkyweasel (7 Aug 2019)

And if you buy or make some toad houses and a hedgehog hotel you could recruit some help with those slugs.


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## dw1305 (7 Aug 2019)

Hi all,





mort said:


> valerian,.........linaria Canon j Went...with my eryngiums


Valerian (_Valeriana officinalis_) is a *fantastic* self-seeder. _Linaria_'s are good, I like "Canon Went" (pink), _Linaria repens_ is a another good bee plant, although it is a bit of a funny colour, it is much shorter than _Linaria purpurea_ and a bit of a spreader.  _Eryngium giganteum_ is slug proof, it is  a biennial but another good self seeder.

cheers Darrel


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## mort (7 Aug 2019)

I've had valeriana officinalis in the past which is why I wanted it again, makes a nice contrast to the ammi majus I grow. I've grown purple linaria for years and a few pink have turned up (mutated/reverted?) so I thought I'd top them up, I also have the yellow version, I think vulgaris and regularly thin out the seedlings.
I have a E. gigantium already I think in miss wilmotts ghost. The problem is the slugs round our way are something else, they seem to eat everything. I think we have a lot of Spanish slugs (I read they found them not far from the kremlin the other day and lots of predators won't touch them because of their excess mucus when compares to other moluscs) and things need to be big enough to stand a chance but once they are they are normally left in peace. I put bark around the base and try to keep a garlic wash topped up but sometimes they are still stripped in the night. They stripped all my foxgloves last year and I've never seen them touch them before, this year it's been some comfrey for some reasons so it's the sacrificial lamb in the green house at the moment.


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## mort (7 Aug 2019)

sparkyweasel said:


> And if you buy or make some toad houses and a hedgehog hotel you could recruit some help with those slugs.



The pond is full of frogs but the plants just outside the margins still get munched. Not seen a toad for over a decade around this way unfortunately. 

We have a wildlife doors between the gardens and I've built a decent log and leave pile with the plan to put a hedgehog house under it. The problem we have is those fat ugly Spanish slugs which many natural predators are reluctant to eat.


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## dw1305 (8 Aug 2019)

Hi all, 





mort said:


> I've grown purple linaria for years and a few pink have turned up (mutated/reverted?) so I thought I'd top them up, I also have the yellow version,


I have had it the other way around, I started with "Canon Went" and they are now all wild type purple. The yellow one is, almost certainly, _Linaria vulgaris._


mort said:


> I have a E. gigantium already I think in miss wilmotts ghost.


That is the one. You can see them in the gravel garden by our pond. This was 2009 or 2010, but I still have their <"descendants">.






mort said:


> I think we have a lot of Spanish slugs (I read they found them not far from the kremlin the other day and lots of predators won't touch them because of their excess mucus when compares to other moluscs) and things need to be big enough to stand a chance but once they are they are normally left in peace. I put bark around the base and try to keep a garlic wash topped up but sometimes they are still stripped in the night. They stripped all my foxgloves last year and I've never seen them touch them before, this year it's been some comfrey


That is a strange one, _Digitalis_ are usually mollusc proof.

Having said that I'm not sure we have "Spanish Slugs" in the garden, large "Ginger" _Arion_ slugs, which I've assumed are _Arion rufus, _but apparently you can't actually definitively ID the _Arion ater _complex slugs_ (Arion rufus/A. ater_ & the Spanish Slug (_A. vulgaris_)) without dissecting their sexual bits. A "new" slug we definitely have is the Yellow Irish Slug (_Limacus maculatus_), although I don't think they eat plants. Anything in our garden is pretty mollusc proof because we have plenty of slugs and a huge number of snails.

All the Comfrey (and Forget-me-not, _Brunnera_ etc) plants in the garden have been eaten, but that is definitely by <"Scarlet Tiger moths">.

cheers Darrel


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## mort (8 Aug 2019)

We don't get many snails and our Brunner and comfrey had slime trails all over it. They are a real pain but one I live with. Had a dozen clematis cuttings that were about a foot high, that I'd raided from neighbours gardens, and they were gone in one night. They did come back but were devastated again. I had looked at nematodes but to do everywhere would cost a fortune so just live with the slimy sods.

On a side note our friend over wintered 4 hedgehogs and we supplied the slugs and they got so fat they had to go on a diet because they couldn't role up properly. It was then that she found out that slugs should only make up a small part of their diet.


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## dw1305 (16 Aug 2019)

Hi all, 





mort said:


> I will take a look at the originum vulgar as it looks similar to the hemp agrimony that I'd added to my basket last night.


These are the two different Marjorams. 

This is _O.laevigatum. _It really is a plant with no bad habits, a very long flowering season and attractive to both bees and butterflies_.



 _

And a close-up. The other plants are a mixture of native (_Ononis repens, Geranium pratense, Hypericum perforatum etc_) and ornamental (_Parahebe, Stipa, Dianthus etc_).  I just thin the more enthusiastic ones when they get out of control, but I don't really do any gardening, it is what's grown over the years.



 

This ones _Origanum vulgare



 
_
It is just another good plant, low maintenance, popular with bee etc and useful as a herb.

cheers Darrel


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## mort (17 Aug 2019)

Thanks for the inspiration. I really like the look of the first marjoram and will definitely get some. We both (my brother and i) have sun trap areas where herbs should do well. His is an area next to the house that's full of stones left by the builders 80 years ago, so I need to dig it up and improve the soils drainage and makeup a little but it's a nice sized strip that I'm free to play with. I also have the same spot but concreted over, so it's pallet planter gardens there. I have been growing lavender cuttings for a few months now, some nice large fennel and rosemary, so the marjoram and some thyme should fit in well.


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## mort (4 Jul 2020)

I saw the discussion on lawns in the other thread and thought I'd update here. I seeded yellow rattle, birds foot trefoil, selfheal, cats ear, some red clover and another I've forgotten. I had scarified the lawn, finely seeded in sand and then trampled it in and waited until spring and nothing, nada, zilch, bupkis I was probably expecting to much but hopefully the seed is still there for if things improve.
I think the grass is just to strong even though it looks bad. My next plan is to grow some plugs and add them to see if they can cope. Going to try rattle again for obvious reasons but add some thuggish daisies into the mix, plus there is a really nice small geranium all around our area in the grasses that has a nice purple flower. Then if it proves more successful I will try to slowly increase diversity over the years.

On the plus side the cats ear  has done much better this year, the white clover has taken over more area and the achillea is quite strong, so hopefully conditions are improving.


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## tiger15 (4 Jul 2020)

In US, most townships prohibit unmowed lawn, so having an unmowed meadow is off limit.  Most homeowners here consider all non turf plants weed and try to get rid of all, but most fail.   Weed are like algae, opportunistic, and are made up of thousands varieties that will always find conditions to thrive.  

Since the war to eliminate weed can never be won, why not accommodate weed in good way.  Since I started my planted tanks,  I  look at lawn weed  differently and see them more like aquatic plants with resemblance in foliage, texture and color.   If arranged in neat patterns, they can be beautiful.  Tom Barr used to call his dutch garden set up a weed farm.   

I started to identify weed in my lawn,  research their characteristic and life cycle, and distinguish good weed  to keep, and bad weed to eliminate.  Clovers  are beneficial weed because they are legumes that add nitrogen to soil.  Vinca minor invasion in the lawn is a beautiful weed that bloom with blue flowers in spring and the deep green foliage blend in with turf grass.    Purple Dead Nettle is a  good ground cover in the flower beds as they are uniform low growing and bloom with purple flowers in spring.  Common Vetch in the flower bed is fern like and a legume  that adds nitrogen to the soil.  There are many bad weed that must be eliminated including all tree seedlings that grow tall and form deep tap roots, horse nettle and weed in the  _Solanum_ family that are thorny, grow tall and give me dermatitis.


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## mort (4 Jul 2020)

I'm just trying to embrace a little of our natural flora. My pond area is nearly 100% native and I've tried to mix wild flowers in our borders with some of the more man manipulated species. I know it's of negligible value to wildlife in the grand scheme of things but it seems silly to dedicate the area to plants that might not thrive in our surroundings.
This year I've grown a couple of dozen mulleins and these attracted the mullein moth caterpillars that I'd never seen. 


Annoyingly all the local verges and grass areas around me had been left to grow all year and just as the flowers were about to bloom, they hacked it all down and left it all over the paths.


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## dw1305 (4 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





tiger15 said:


> Tom Barr used to call his dutch garden set up a weed farm.


Tom (@plantbrain) wrote a bit on the forum about his academic job. This is on <"Aquatic plant management"> and this one talks about <"fishing lake management">.


tiger15 said:


> In US, most townships prohibit unmowed lawn, so having an unmowed meadow is off limit


I read this in one of <"Dave Goulson's books">, I must admit while nothing about the USA amazes me, it amazes me that you can legally own a machine gun, but they can fine you (and forcibly mow your lawn?) if you haven't mown your lawn.

I never understood why they needed to move beehives around to pollinate the Almonds etc. until someone told me that the Almond growing areas is <"effectively sterilized"> and doesn't have any other plants or pollinating insects left.

cheers Darrel


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## tiger15 (4 Jul 2020)

Tom Barr has a phD in ecology, limnology or something relating to environmental science.  He is an abrasive talker and gets a bigger name out of aquarscaping than his academic discipline.  

Yes, it doesn't make sense keeping guns is legal but not mowing the lawn is illegal in US.  Piers Morgan was CNN night talk show host  after long time Larry King  retirement for a couple years.  I was fascinated by his frequent questioning of American's fascination with guns  and perhaps his strong opinion kept him from having his contract renewed.


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