# Taking a sump. Back in five minutes...



## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

So this summer I decided that I no longer needed sleep and started up a side project to do after the kids had gone to bed. Plan was to have a sumped Aquascaper 600 running high light, Co2 and turnover. Firstly, this offered a good opportunity to have a test tank with rapid growth. Second, it gives my eldest son (who’s five) an opportunity to do some pruning without worrying too much - it’ll grow back soon enough.

At the time I was very keen to see how a wet dry filter system would perform. It was Tom Barr’s “Dutch something or the other” journal that got this started, particularly certain claims that his wet dry system in his sump (disclaimer: that I’ve never seen) put 2ppm more saturated o2 into the water than canisters ever could according to his measurements. Quite the gain simply by design as a consistent 2ppm gain is relatively huge with regards to o2. 

What I was after isn’t available off the shelf so some cannibalism of some old tanks and a bit of creativity was needed.






Old Dennerle 55l fits perfect into an Aquascaper 600 cabinet and it comes with a glass lid. The lid was cut up to make the baffles.





Shout out to @Andrew Butler from whom I bought the AS600 from. His advice on pvc plumbing and willingness to hash out ideas has been a tremendous help, so thank you to you Andrew.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

To drill the tank for plumbing seemed an unreasonable loss of real estate so an over the top overflow was used.





A wide diameter on the returns also allows for a larger volume of water to be returned with a lowered level of disturbance. At maximum the system can run at twenty times turnover per hour.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Wow that seems like a great idea bro will be watching with bated breath and eyes wide so get a move on lol 
Cheers
Jay


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

It’s up and running @Jayefc1 

No patience required but will dish out the design first.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Ohh your gunna keep us on tender hooks your such a tease


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

The aim for the sump was as simple as possible but no simpler.

A two baffle design only allows for a single height of water in the sump. However, three chambers gives good control of flow. The only requirements were:

- Wet dry filter system
- Heater
- Return pump





The box houses the filter foam. The bottom of the box is drilled to perform as a drip plate. Water rains down over media and through the small section where the heater is housed. Finally the return area holds any extras you want e.g. purigen etc...

A point on this sump design is it contains a low water level when running. It gives a good volume remaining in the sump to contain the back flow when you turn off the return pump and it back siphons.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Keep it coming mate really cleverly designed and thought through


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

PVC plumbing. Now... I can confidently say welding PVC plumbing together in your shed, by torch light, in a respirator mask, at 3am, not only raises a few eyebrows from the neighbours.

But if you do it whilst drinking beer it invariably leads to some mistakes:





For those in the know you’re already laughing 

For those that don’t, those nut thingy me jiggies are meant to be on the pipe before you weld the ends on.

Always a good idea to buy extra’s with PVC if you’re a plonker:


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## Filip Krupa (8 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> But if you do it whilst drinking beer it invariably leads to some mistakes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha!
That made me proper laugh. Thanks for sharing!
We all do stuff like this, but most are selfish and never share 

Fil


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Was it the fumes or the beer that caused the mistake lol and who cares what the neighbours think they would never understand


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

If you can’t be a good example, you have to serve as a terrible warning @Filip Krupa 

Glad to be of service


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Unfortunately @Jayefc1 I’m running out of excuses


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Pushing on to testing.









Even with a 3000lph pump with next to no head pressure the drip plate handles the volume. This is important because when you get lazy (and you know you will) things clog and efficiency drops. Never a bad thing to give yourself some wiggle room.

The more astute will notice that a) there’s a hole drilled on the side of the box as an outflow and b) the hole in the standard Dennerle cover glass to act as a finger hole is positioned to allow water through in case of emergency/laziness.


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## Filip Krupa (8 Nov 2019)

I like your thinking!

Ive a sump on my 2000L, its good DIY fun!

Fil


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Plumbing. Originally the plan was to go with two outflows. The thinking at the time was that it would give a more even distribution. Whilst this was true when running it made the display crowded. At no point was twenty times plus turnover ever going to be needed.





This was stripped down to one outflow. It can be run at well over ten times turnover without causing too much disturbance in the scape. This seemed like the superior option all things considered.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Its looking really good mate how long do you think you had it planned and to execute the plan


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Equipment in:





As before a low water level is all that is needed.





Due to the (relatively well) sealed compartments in the overflow unit and the sump, Co2 gassing off hasn’t been an issue.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> Its looking really good mate how long do you think you had it planned and to execute the plan



Two minutes @Jayefc1 

I did it whilst on the can


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

The scaping isn’t anything to write home about. Had to keep it simple so my son can have a go at trimming without bashing everything whilst also leaving plenty of planting room to try different species out over time.





Simple five stone Iwagumi in Millennium Stone.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Initial planting to get the system on its feet is kept simple:

























50/50 RO to tap (very hard water area) used to maintain high CEC of Amazonia aqua soil as long as possible during initial setup period.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Gotta love that millennium stone and a good base with the Ada you will be on those solar rgb before you know it lol


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## Andrew Butler (8 Nov 2019)

I've been waiting on this thread for a while now, be good to see how it's all worked out in one place and show others something different.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Always a good idea to buy extra’s with PVC if you’re a plonker


 I remember when you sent me this photo a while back, it's so easy to make errors so plonker or not I don't think it matters - order some spares.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> you will be on those solar rgb before you know it lol



@Siege has invited me over to hang his solar RGB lights for him @Jayefc1

I bet he shouts out “thank you peasant” as he kicks me aside once the holy illumination is setup to his satisfaction!






“Three times solar RGB... So... Relaxing...”

Alas... My children see to every last penny in the meantime


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> I've been waiting on this thread for a while now



Got there in the end hey Andrew 

Yes spares... certainly a good shout for a numpty like myself.


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

The great prince of light has invited you to his palace to hang the mighty chandeliers come my child your DIY skills are required il feed you beer by the can full


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Anyway, surprise surprise everything grows very well and quickly:









Not very interesting in and of itself.

Started to plant other things now such as H’ra on the left and Aragauia in the gaps in the Millennium Stone.





The ONF Flat One is running at 80% in a tank that is less than a foot depth to substrate. Things are looking promising  and there’s plenty of opportunity to have a play. It’s a pretty stable system.

So far the fertiliser regime has been played with and a transition from RO to full tap water has been implemented. Will give some feedback in due time.


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## Geoffrey Rea (8 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> The great prince of light has invited you to his palace to hang the mighty chandeliers come my child your DIY skills are required il feed you beer by the can full


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## Jayefc1 (8 Nov 2019)

Oh mate I think that is amazing i like the simplistic look and thats pretty good groth how long has it been planted


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## Geoffrey Rea (9 Nov 2019)

Eight weeks growth @Jayefc1 

The H’ra and Aragauia went in a few days ago. Will have a go of a few plants over time should imagine.


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## Siege (10 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> @Siege has invited me over to hang his solar RGB lights for him @Jayefc1
> 
> I bet he shouts out “thank you peasant” as he kicks me aside once the holy illumination is setup to his satisfaction!
> 
> ...




@Geoffrey Rea @Jayefc1

Alright peasants, the Excellent Geoff came round and installed the Lights with me (I drunk beer and he used the complicated tools!)

It was easy for him to get in as the drawbridge has malfunctioned and is stuck in the down position 

It only cost me 2 crates of beer and about a hundred quids worth of Dominoes, abosulute bargain. I even let him sleep in the servant quarters! 

Picture of finished lights and the aftermath of a tradesman


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## Jayefc1 (10 Nov 2019)

@Siege Wow mate they look amazing time to rescape

The complicated tools being a hammer and nails i take it lol

Cheers
Jay


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## Siege (10 Nov 2019)

There was also this thing that goes whhhiiiirrr and a tiny metal stick span round and went through the wood.

Bloody amazing!

He coming round next week to fix a wonky cupboard, he offered honestly.....!


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## Jayefc1 (10 Nov 2019)

A whirly thing only the king of light could have such witch craft 

When you say he offered was there a little preasure on him with say a rack or bucket of slowly dripping water and a wet cloth maybe covering his face 

Cheers
Jay


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## Geoffrey Rea (10 Nov 2019)

Looking good @Siege 

It’s a miracle they’re hung straight @Jayefc1 I did say it would be easier if he would stop kicking me.


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## Siege (10 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> A whirly thing only the king of light could have such witch craft
> 
> When you say he offered was there a little preasure on him with say a rack or bucket of slowly dripping water and a wet cloth maybe covering his face
> 
> ...




Ha ha !

No, the dog just growled at him and it was a done deal!

Geoff wanted to do it last night but we were about 6 beers in, so we didn’t think it was a good idea!


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## Geoffrey Rea (10 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> Gotta love that millennium stone



Apologies in advance. About to cover the lot in Pinnatifida.





Do love the Millennium Stone though but ultimately this is a test tank. Looking to play with plant forms under differing conditions.

To be fair the rock was only ever positioned to anchor plants on but it has been nice having a simple Iwagumi style for a while.


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## Jayefc1 (10 Nov 2019)

Did he have those steel toe caps on again mate i feel.your pain 

Well you both did an excellent job @Siege providing (cough cough) refreshments 

And @Geoffrey Rea for his skillful handling of a whirly thingy mabob


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## Geoffrey Rea (11 Nov 2019)

Turned off the Co2 for today. Not advising anyone else do this unless you fancy some potential drama.

Wanted to see just off visually looking at the drop checker how much Co2 is being gassed off in a 24hr period (plus what is up-taken by the plants in one photo period).





Still green at lights off at 8pm tonight (24 hours later) but not too shabby.


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Nov 2019)

Pinnatifida in:





Just gotta wait for it to cover the rocks now.


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## Jayefc1 (12 Nov 2019)

Whats your aim with the pinta make
Cheers 
Jay


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Nov 2019)

Hack it like Edward Scissor Hands. As compact growth as possible @Jayefc1 

Nitrate isn’t being dosed into the water column, there’s very low amounts of iron and it’s under high light so should be pretty red. Potassium is being dosed daily but will see how hungry it gets.

A lot of people say it burns out in the water around here and I’m more than happy to go several rounds to see what may cause this. Tap is very hard and high in nitrate. Can see what happens using tap first and if this burns it out will use RO to get better control of water parameters to see what’s what.

Just having a play basically Jay.


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## Jayefc1 (12 Nov 2019)

I was hoping thats what you was going to say Sounds like lots of fun cant wait for the results matey


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## zozo (13 Nov 2019)

Nice project!.. 

Maybe an idea for the next. If you ever want to glue PVC tubing again. Try Polymer sealant Tec7 for the tubing and sand the tube ends and fittings. It's not a solvent but it glues PVC tubes and fitting like a champ it's pretty strong stuff. Good thing is, it can be taken apart again with a firm twist and reused after the old cured sealant is pealed off.

I have several sump filter setups running for years all tubing sealed with Tec7.

Since sump and pump tubing doesn't really need to hold pressure there is no need to solvent weld it.


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Nov 2019)

zozo said:


> Try Polymer sealant Tec7



Top tip, thank you @zozo


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## Geoffrey Rea (14 Nov 2019)

Why have one ONF Flat One above an AS600 when you can have two:


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## CooKieS (14 Nov 2019)

Is the ONF as effective as sexy?


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## Geoffrey Rea (14 Nov 2019)

It’s a bit of a beast as a tank mounted unit instead of a pendant unit @CooKieS 

It is dimmable but having it raised higher would be a benefit.

It’s most definitely a high light tank across its footprint now, especially at the overlap. Turning both units to 100% turns the water to lemonade with all the pearling if that’s what you mean by effective. You won’t be short of photon bombardment even at modest settings.


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## Tim Harrison (15 Nov 2019)

Haha...that's just nuts 
But a great experiment


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## Geoffrey Rea (15 Nov 2019)

Dave and @Siege think as much as well, that’s part of why it’s worth doing @Tim Harrison 

So little faith you lot  I’m not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.

To be honest I don’t see this as any different from very high light setups using T5’s. The retainment of Co2 in this system is excellent and the wet dry filter in theory is giving a continual oxygen advantage regardless of other factors, so there is a safety net. A dissolved oxygen meter was on the shopping list to test this along with pH data as a proxy for Co2, but had to go the States so it got put on the back burner.

Will try and get my hands on a good PAR meter at some point to see what we’re dealing with, maybe from apogee. It’ll get further use so probably worth it.

Will be continuously trying out various high light/Co2 plants so what is planted currently is subject to change. Any suggestions are welcome too.

It’s the polar opposite to my other tank where you could slip in and out of a coma and nothing changes, takes months to get anywhere. Quite refreshing to go full tilt the other way.


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## Tim Harrison (15 Nov 2019)

It's a great idea and something I've often thought of doing myself, so looking forward to seeing more results


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## Siege (15 Nov 2019)

Mental experiment 

I had 1 light on the same tank and found at 80% it was too much. All that light, so close too the water, 
but 2 of them..!

Shout out to your 5 year old son for the excellent pruning. The only 5 year old who owns a pair of ADA curved spring scissors in the country I reckon!


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## Geoffrey Rea (15 Nov 2019)

Does a quality job with them though. No complaints here


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## Jayefc1 (16 Nov 2019)

@Siege 
Hey mate did you get my pm about the pipes


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## Geoffrey Rea (17 Nov 2019)

90% of the Blyxa torn out and some Eriocaulon too.

New plants in:

- Bocopa ‘Colorata’
- Cuphea anagalloidea
- Hottania palustris
- Ludwigia ‘Mini Super Red’
- Myriophyllum ‘Guyana’
- Rotala ‘Colorata’
- Rotala rotundifolia ‘Orange Juice’
- Rotala wallichii

Still on the hunt for some Cabomba furcata but no luck yet.


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Nov 2019)




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## Chris Tinker (18 Nov 2019)

Hows the sump working out? More pictures of that too please. 

Tank looks amazing. Amd loving the test of different plants


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Nov 2019)

Chris Tinker said:


> Hows the sump working out? More pictures of that too please.



Anything in particular you want to know @Chris Tinker or just a general overview?


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## Chris Tinker (18 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Anything in particular you want to know @Chris Tinker or just a general overview?


Love a good close up of each section of the sump with an overview of all of it. Been running a fair few weeks so would be good


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## Kalum (18 Nov 2019)

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out with that much light and if you get any diatoms/gsa on the rocks or if you manage to keep it at bay and not clean the rocks much

All looks very healthy and a great wee experiment


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

I use GSA as feedback on phosphate levels. It’s sometimes advantageous to dose it, but GSA will appear on the rocks if it is lacking. This is then munched on by the nerites and gives them a meal so not really a problem.

Diatoms are found deeper inside the overflow unit where there’s very low light and nothing to use it. Again the nerites slide right on in there and have a munch. Really handy as cleaning the unit manually would be extremely difficult.

Suffice to say I love my nerites, high light or otherwise.


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Chris Tinker said:


> Love a good close up of each section of the sump with an overview of all of it. Been running a fair few weeks so would be good



Right then. So as previously discussed the original design had two outflows:






You’ll just have to use your imagination @Chris Tinker and erase one of the outlets. However this is pretty much the setup around the back as it is now. One difference would be that of the two intakes in the overflow box, you cut a piece of PVC pipe and use this as a stand pipe/overflow (for obvious reasons it must be cut to the maximum height you would want the display to be at before the overflow comes into use).





You can run this like a herbie overflow but from experience this isn’t worth it. With the lid on you a) can’t hear it if you adjust the ball valve correctly and b) the drop of the water causes minimal gassing off and the lid (not on in this pic) seals the unit up reasonably well.


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

The aqualifter pump then starts the siphon for the overflow box (airline and direction of flow represented by my terrible drawing on this image):





The ball valve for the overflow is then set fully open, then it’s a matter of adjusting the main intake ball valve to your desired rate matched with your return pump:


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

The actual filtration is simple:





Water goes through sponges in the top box, through the drip plate (lots of holes drilled in the box to disperse water evenly), over the K1 media which is the primary source of filtration, then through the gap bottom right to travel across the heater and finally to the return pump.


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## Jayefc1 (19 Nov 2019)

@Geoffrey Rea Did your son do the drawing lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

That’s all me @Jayefc1 he could never be responsible for such a travesty 

You get what you pay for....


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## Jayefc1 (19 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> That’s all me @Jayefc1 he could never be responsible for such a travesty


At least your honest enough to admit it mate


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> Looking forward to seeing how this turns out with that much light and if you get any diatoms/gsa on the rocks or if you manage to keep it at bay and not clean the rocks much
> 
> All looks very healthy and a great wee experiment



The other component to your query @Kalum is everyone is quick to attribute success to a system, an aquascape, design, piece of equipment  or whatever. But honestly it’s the aquarist and what they habitually do that is a large determinant of success in high tech from everything I’ve seen:





You want a clean carpet, you gotta clean it. Doesn’t mean you have to make it difficult though. The Ecco filter in the pic is stuffed with old off cuts of filter floss and I vacuum the tank and sump mid-week. This takes minutes using an old filter like this that anyone can pick up second hand. Removes a massive amount of detritus without a lengthy water change every few days.

A tank like this running with the accelerator pedal smashed so far down it’s in the engine block will produce a lot of waste. “The plants will sort it out” mentality is gonna bite you in the ass pretty much immediately with 200 - 300 PAR to all four corners   

Tank is getting fully loaded soon, fish are on their way. That will be the interesting change.


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## Chris Tinker (19 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Right then. So as previously discussed the original design had two outflows:
> 
> View attachment 129180
> 
> ...


Amazing shot from behind.

I am eventully moving my tank and might do this from a side panel. Huge inspiration from this shot


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## Chris Tinker (19 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> The other component to your query @Kalum is everyone is quick to attribute success to a system, an aquascape, design, piece of equipment  or whatever. But honestly it’s the aquarist and what they habitually do that is a large determinant of success in high tech from everything I’ve seen:
> 
> View attachment 129196
> 
> ...



Thats genius!!! Using a simple canister to clean the tank without doing a water change... this right here needs a reward!


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## Kalum (19 Nov 2019)

@Geoffrey Rea couldn't agree more and keeping on top of the basics of keeping the tank clean in general will see you succeed more times than not and is the first thing to slip with most (including myself in the past and learning the hard way!), the more you push the limits the more you need to do to keep it on track

great wee idea with the aquarium version of a handheld dyson, work smarter not harder to keep yourself sane and enjoying it

that pic with the 2 lights is just insane


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Chris Tinker said:


> I am eventully moving my tank and might do this from a side panel. Huge inspiration from this shot



Really glad to hear it @Chris Tinker 

If you have any other questions just shoot.


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## Andrew Butler (19 Nov 2019)

interested to see how and where you put the CO2, I've been wondering what to do with mine - when it arrives!


Geoffrey Rea said:


> erase one of the outlets


Why would you want to use 2 outlets?


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> Why would you want to use 2 outlets?



To avoid sand storms 

But to be fair @Andrew Butler with the pump sizing on this system one outlet disperses the water out quite nicely, but an even lower lph would be fine. On your footprint for your internal inbuilt filter 900 I can’t see it being too big an issue. The random flow generator to go on the end of the loc-line could be the way forward for designing out too much direct flow.


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## Andrew Butler (19 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> The random flow generator to go on the end of the loc-line could be the way forward for designing out too much direct flow


We will see I might find I have sandstorms with it! - I've a feeling it will either work really well or fail miserably.
The aquarium should be turning up tomorrow


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> the more you push the limits the more you need to do to keep it on track



In a period of just over a year I ran three Dennerle 55l tanks that on a rota I would try to total every 30 days. Obviously no livestock.

Co2 off/on/off, filter off for a week, powerhead blasting stems, light on max from start up, toxic levels of dosing....

It’s surprisingly difficult and things bounce back. The only thing that was really unforgivable was a large build up of detritus and a lack of surface agitation. Robs all of the remaining oxygen and at a tipping point, collapses the system.

People don’t necessarily think of it this way but not doing proper, regular maintenance is pushing the limits.


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## foxfish (19 Nov 2019)

Hi Geoffrey , sorry I have not been following  your thread in detail but I notice in one of the pictures you have your C02 in front of your return pump.
Great idea and something I have been doing for many years, the only difference is I use a cut down plastic bottle...


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Snap @foxfish and thanks for sharing.

Been through several iterations of this but with a vitamin bottle where the neck fit in the pump. I removed it as it could potentially move and fall out without being noticed. Can’t afford any alteration of Co2 with the amount of light running and messing with the planting a lot.

Using the bazooka style diffuser the pump pulls in pretty much all of the Co2 which for now is good enough. I think if I were to up my game I would build a reactor.... next project maybe


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## foxfish (19 Nov 2019)

Yes you have to find the right size bottle ... reactor or needle wheel pump!


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Ready


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## Costa (19 Nov 2019)

foxfish said:


> Hi Geoffrey , sorry I have not been following  your thread in detail but I notice in one of the pictures you have your C02 in front of your return pump.
> Great idea and something I have been doing for many years, the only difference is I use a cut down plastic bottle...
> View attachment 129200



Question: I tried that and in order to get the CO2 bubbles everywhere in the tank, i had to up the return pumps flow, and ended up with the water coming into the sump at a high speed creating a lot of O2 bubbles. Doesn't that remove the CO2?


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Not sure if that question is for @foxfish or myself @Costa 

The main benefit of having the Co2 diffuser in front of the return pump is as the mist travels through the pump, up the pipe and out of the outflow more Co2 will dissolve into the water due to all the turbulent flow. 

The remaining mist need not go all around the tank if the water is saturated to your desired ppm of Co2. A reactor dissolves all the Co2 by extending this turbulent period even longer.

So to answer your question, yes that additional flow and increased turnover from turning your return pumps up is gassing off Co2 to some degree. Whether you would want to do that is up to you and depends on several other factors.


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## Costa (19 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not sure if that question is for @foxfish or myself @Costa
> 
> The main benefit of having the Co2 diffuser in front of the return pump is as the mist travels through the pump, up the pipe and out of the outflow more Co2 will dissolve into the water due to all the turbulent flow.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply, I've been injecting CO2 (5-6
bps) for a good 2 months through the return pump at high flow rates (~6000lph) and the drop checker was in the light blue, borderline green. Granted, it is a 800L tank, I've had far better success with the smaller tanks I've kept over the years.

I have now (last 5 days) switched to a bazooka placed right below the wave maker and also reduced the pump's flow rate to around 2,000LPH. At such slow flow rates the water returns into the sump very slowly and almost without any O2 bubbles and  I *think* I'm getting some better growth, the drop checker is still light blue thought!


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

No problem. @foxfish ’s method of concentrating all the Co2 mist by funnelling it into the pump where the prop will ‘chop’ the water up is an extremely effective way of gaining a considerable advantage. Sounds like the affect of higher turnover is cancelling it out through surface agitation and during the return process back to the sump.

The high turnover thing, in my humble opinion, is only a serious benefit at start up when plants are shedding and also when you load up with stock. The rest of the time manual removal is the best way of limiting the demand on your system as other means, rather than manual removal (like relying heavily on plant and sump filtration by increasing turn over), has an effect on other parameters we would rather remain efficient and stable.


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Nov 2019)

Just for a bit of perspective this is 4 x Kessil A160’s @ 100% through 2ft depth versus two ONF Flat One’s @ 35% through 1ft:






Fully aware I’m being an utter child but it’s still making me giggle. Can’t even get a clear shot.

As for growth:





When everything that got planted 48 hours ago is as tight growing as the H’ra in the foreground (that went in a week ago) can see this being a lot of fun.


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## Andrew Butler (20 Nov 2019)

foxfish said:


> Yes you have to find the right size bottle ... reactor or needle wheel pump!


needle/pinwheel pumps of a decent quality don't really seem to exist at a sensible price though and from what I've seen tend to be lower powered and intended for skimmers.
Maybe a better way of me wording this is what pump would you suggest that could easily be used as a return pump with high enough power, flow control etc?
I've got the Jecod DCP-2500 after good experience with the brand with regard to return pumps.


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## Costa (20 Nov 2019)

Yes I can also vouch for Jebaos, I have 2 (a 3k and 10k LPH) and have been serving me very well for 3 years, going 4 - with minimal maintenance, maybe once or twice a year


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Nov 2019)

Bit of history @Andrew Butler and @Costa 





The Eheim Ecco in this picture was my fathers. If memory serves me correctly he bought it in 1999 when the Ecco series first came out. It has been running for at least 18 out of the last 20 years constantly and has never failed or dropped in performance. Thing is as good as silent when running. Gunther Eheim set the bar in my mind, so I feel somewhat disappointed when we’re all surprised something lasts longer than two years these days.

But yes, Jecod/Jebao dominate for DC pumps at a reasonable price and are so silent you can’t even tell if they’re running.


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## Andrew Butler (20 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Jecod/Jebao dominate for DC pumps at a reasonable price and are so silent you can’t even tell if they’re running


They took the marine world by storm a few years back when you got a real quality return pump which had adjustable flow, was more reliable and quieter than the £600+ return pumps (reason why D-D have now brought the rights in the UK)


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## foxfish (20 Nov 2019)

Hi Andrew, needle wheel pumps tend to have less flow rather than power due to having a less efficient impeller for actually moving water.
They are easy to make as it is only the impeller that is different to a conventional pump, you can probably find a YouTube vid...
I haves used needle wheel pumps in the past, there is no doubt that they will produce a mass of micro bubbles but I would think they are better suited on a large tank where other methods might be more of a challenge.

Reactors  can be very fickle and time consuming to set up just right, in-line reactors need high pressure to operate and need cleaning... a needle wheel pump is pretty much maintenance free.... but can be noisy!

I would say the worst thing is in fact noise, however this is not always an issue if say the pump is under 300mm of water, in a sump, under a tank with doors.

Many years ago it was popular to modify a power head impeller by just nipping the blades with a pair of pliers or drilling tiny holes in the blades. They could then be fed low pressure C02, all good fun but a bit ugly.


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## foxfish (20 Nov 2019)

I have been using central heating pumps for 40 years, you need a conversion kit but once fitted the pumps should last for decades of continuous running.
Good points.... near silent and vibration free , completely silent from a few feet away, adjustable power and flow settings, easy to buy new or second hand.
Bad points ... heavy and high power consumption, I think 40w on low setting.


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## Andrew Butler (20 Nov 2019)

foxfish said:


> you can probably find a YouTube vid...


I've seen a few where people adulterate impellors and either 3d print a new wheel or mess around with acrylic, not something I really want to do and as you say the flow isn't the same.
I'm having an aquarium built with a partitioned filtration section on the end ( @Geoffrey Rea I've had the nod to say it's coming today  ) so just seeing what space I have in the filter section and quite if and how I can exercise your bottle method, one I listened to a very long time ago.


foxfish said:


> a needle wheel pump is pretty much maintenance free.... but can be noisy!


I think the newer generation are much quieter; the one on my Nyos skimmer a few years back was absolutely silent.
Jecod have something called a 'swirl impeller' on some models, quite how this effects things I don't know - I'll have to take a photo for your opinion


foxfish said:


> I have been using central heating pumps for 40 years


Something I've not heard here before.


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> I'm having an aquarium built with a partitioned filtration section on the end ( @Geoffrey Rea I've had the nod to say it's coming today  )



Ah... I see you selected the ‘express delivery’ option at checkout   

Hope it’s spot on and worth the wait @Andrew Butler


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## foxfish (20 Nov 2019)

I am sure there are new innovations but from my own experiences it is the actual smashing up of the bubbles that makes the noice rather that the pump motor. In effect the pump is spinning faster than the gas can be moved causing a sort of hissing sound.
I have one particular pump that must be 30 years old and still running today, I thought it had finally died  a few months back but a basic service, a drop of oil and off it went again on its silence journey....
Edit you can see that actual pump working in the third post on my reactor thread ...link in my signature...


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## Andrew Butler (20 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> ‘express delivery’


Hmmmm not so sure about that


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hope it’s spot on and worth the wait


I'm quite confident it's not spot on from a picture I've been sent  looks like they've had a go at the weir cutout with a diamond saw this time, still it cant be worse than the holesaw with overscore attempt in the back to front attempt. I know they've not used CNC as I was expecting in the first place which I'm a little annoyed about. Anyway let's see if I can fix it with wet/dry then maybe some black paint - any suggestions?


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Nov 2019)

Fish in. Colour on its way.









Looking forward to first trim now. Get some sculpting going.


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## Tim Harrison (22 Nov 2019)

Lovely fish, I like how you get flashes of red depending on how they catch the light.


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Nov 2019)

Nothing I can do with this phone really does them justice @Tim Harrison 

Recently had a play with an iPhone 11 Pro... Pretty amazing piece of kit picture/video wise.


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Nov 2019)

Lights being ramped up now plants are settling in. Transition from tap (400ppm + TDS) down to a controlled 120ppm with RO / tap mix.

Tried out Spotless Water.





I hugely dislike the amount of waste water discarded in the making of RO in the colder months. At least in the summer it can be used in the garden. Rainwater due to the direction of the prevailing wind is probably not a good idea due to air pollution, but educating myself otherwise to see if this prejudice holds any reasonable truth.

Their system will be massively more efficient than any home RO unit but as a bonus I can quit the gym due to all the lifting.


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Nov 2019)

Meh... Close enough.





The Blyxa japonica is also looking pretty cool. Top shot gives the most accurate colour:


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

Quick update. Ten days growth of the stems that were added: 





Time for a cut. Eriocaulon wasn’t particularly thriving anymore so taken it out.

First trim:













Fresh growth should be fully adapted to under water life from here on out.

Lights were turned up to 90% on both ONF’s and TDS was bang on 120ppm in tank after water change this past week. Same drill this week but will be going up to 100% on both lights.


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## Kalum (29 Nov 2019)

That's it, going home to crank up the Vivid....

Eleocharis and rotala especially looking great


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> Eleocharis and rotala especially looking great



Longest established. The rest will catch up. Not replanting the tops for now so everything will be dull for a bit after each cut but want that investment in root structures maintained to lean out the soil as much as possible.


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## Jayefc1 (29 Nov 2019)

Looks really good mate those lights seem pretty good ive had my 600sa on 100% for months now and the colours arnt any where nears as nice 
Cherrs 
Jay


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## Siege (29 Nov 2019)

More likely the water @Jayefc1 combined with EI? They’ll get there though. Especially h’ra.

2 x ONF (well less than 10cm above the water) is just mental though, basically a full ceiling of light!! 

Geoff is enjoying walking a fine line between brilliance and completely crashing!


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

I actually want more artificial lighting @Siege

T5’s are the only thing that can deliver the next level after this but need to give things a fair run under this arrangement first.

The point was never to succeed, it was to find the fail point against adequate Co2, adequate nutrition and ample filtration. I’ve used standardised products which should mean everything I’ve done so far is replicable and a possibility for anyone wanting to try.

The T5’s then open up the opportunity to play with the red and blue spectrum bulbs. Tom Barr and Dennis Wong have had a good play with these, only seems fair to give it a whirl and see what’s what.

@Jayefc1 just a suggestion but have you tried dosing only potassium (ADA brighty k neutral  / Easy-Life Kalium Potassium / Potassium Sulphate K2SO4 salt) in place of your macros NPK for a week or two to see if you can tease out some colour? Your substrate will probably cover your nitrate and phosphate for that period without any penalty. If it does just switch back to EI macros.


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## Jayefc1 (29 Nov 2019)

@Geoffrey Rea the amount of root tabs in there after watching fillipe i dont think really need to dose anything ever again lol 

Would i just need one of the above ot all of them . I already have K2SO4 i put it in my ei mix was thinking about just knocking the KNO3 of the mix for a while would that work 

@Siege what do you mean by the water combined with EI mate 

Cheers 
J


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> the amount of root tabs in there after watching fillipe i dont think really need to dose anything ever again lol






Any one of those options was what I was getting at, just a source of potassium that doesn’t include N or P.


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## Jayefc1 (29 Nov 2019)

So if i make up a dose and leave the KNO3 out and replace with more K2SO4 should that work in theory

Cheers
J


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> So if i make up a dose and leave the KNO3 out and replace with more K2SO4 should that work in theory



Yes @Jayefc1 , or you can just make up a small bottle of just K2SO4 on its own to try for a bit.

If you want you could mix it up with MgSO4 for a source of additional magnesium as well. But leave out KNO3 and KH2PO4 to omit nitrate and phosphate for this mix. If you’ve gone heavy with root tabs there’ll theoretically be enough Mg, N and P in the soil/tabs anyway so all you’re doing is changing the location the plants attain them from.

Given you’re using tap water there will still be nitrate and phosphate in that too so it’s not as if you’ve removed it entirely from the water column, just reduced it.


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## Jayefc1 (30 Nov 2019)

Il.just dose the 2 salts straight to the tsnk for 2 weeks see how it goes no point making a mox for such a small amount of salts and as i chef i have the scales to way .1 of a gram.so wont be to hard to work out how much i need 
Cheers @Geoffrey Rea for the help bro 

Cheers
J


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## Andrew Butler (30 Nov 2019)

Jayefc1 said:


> as i chef i have the scales to way .1 of a gram


Chef?!?


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## Jayefc1 (30 Nov 2019)

Andrew Butler said:


> Chef?!?


Haha no i am a chef lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Nov 2019)

Okay @Jayefc1 whatever you say mate... Secret is safe with us


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## Andrew Butler (30 Nov 2019)

@Jayefc1 is your name Devon Langford?


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## MJQMJQ (30 Nov 2019)

I have those weighing scales for gemstones lol which is even more accurate but im not so particular haha.


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## Geoffrey Rea (2 Dec 2019)




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## MJQMJQ (2 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> View attachment 129543
> 
> View attachment 129544


Nice contrast


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## Geoffrey Rea (2 Dec 2019)

It’s an all out real estate war in there @MJQMJQ 

The Cuphea anagalloidea was meant to soften the contrast between the Guyana and the Mini Super Red a little bit, but it’s going to have to fight harder if it wants to survive:





Just about keeping its head above all the new growth.


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## Delirious (3 Dec 2019)

After leaving work did you even decide what new plant to use? xD


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Dec 2019)

Blyxa in the middle gone. Replaced with Staurogyne Repens as a transition plant.

Another patch of Blyxa gone under the outlet and replaced with Rotala Macrandra.

Better spread and transition of colours.


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## MJQMJQ (4 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Blyxa in the middle gone. Replaced with Staurogyne Repens as a transition plant.
> 
> Another patch of Blyxa gone under the outlet and replaced with Rotala Macrandra.
> 
> Better spread and transition of colours.


Got picture?Im excited


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## Geoffrey Rea (4 Dec 2019)

Nothing to show for a while now @MJQMJQ 

Just growing it in ready for Christmas. The repens and macrandra are fresh in and look as you would expect. Going to settle with these species and let them grow in now.

These are the eventual zones I’ll be trimming to:










From another angle:










There’s still the potential to remove some eleocharis and plant a more complex foreground, but not got time for that just yet. Also my son likes ‘trimming the lawn’ but suspect he’ll get bored soon enough.


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## Delirious (4 Dec 2019)

I see what you mean about the hottonia  looks so much nicer submersed!


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## Geoffrey Rea (4 Dec 2019)

Delirious said:


> I see what you mean about the hottonia  looks so much nicer submersed!



Highly underrated plant in high tech, really ‘pops’.


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## Kalum (4 Dec 2019)

Hottonia palustris is a new one to me but looks great! Might have to look into it as a possible replacement for my rotala rotundifolia for a bit of variation


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## CooKieS (4 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Highly underrated plant in high tech, really ‘pops’.



Yeah, cool light green and leaf structure, but was unfortunately too big for my 60p scape so I had to remove it. Seems to be an easy plant, slow grower on my medium Lightning setup.


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## Geoffrey Rea (4 Dec 2019)

I usually go for Ranunculus inundatus for a more compact version with silmilar qualities @CooKieS 

Problem is that damn stuff just turns up anywhere it likes in the scape uninvited. At least Hottonia is as easy as it comes, but big by comparison.


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## CooKieS (5 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I usually go for Ranunculus inundatus for a more compact version with silmilar qualities @CooKieS
> 
> Problem is that damn stuff just turns up anywhere it likes in the scape uninvited. At least Hottonia is as easy as it comes, but big by comparison.



Agreed, R.Inundatus grows like Hydrocotyle Tripartita, very invasive...needs weekly trimming. But again ,beautiful plant!


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Dec 2019)

Quick update and a good chance to talk about some basics if you choose to fiddle with nutrient dosing. Finally run in to the tanks first troubles but ultimately only feedback specific to this setup.

Plants colouring up nicely:





However, GSA on older green leaves and BGA:





The BGA runs along the glass just below the substrate with the eleocharis. It literally stops where the eleocharis stops along the tank sides.

For those that haven’t been following the thread I’ve been lean dosing just micros and potassium and awaiting the point where there’s signs the ADA Amazonia is running low on nitrate. I’ve also added a load of fast growing stems recently to speed up this process. The rapid colouration of the h’ra and newer stems anecdotally points to low nitrate. Up to now I’ve also omitted phosphate as much as possible (RO and a splash of tap) but feed the fish pretty decently.

From experience BGA is a good sign your NPK ratio is out of whack. The fact the BGA ends where the carpet ends says to me that soil has finally been stripped of nitrate by the carpet. This is also timed against the arrival of a lot of stem plants competing for resources very recently.

GSA on the older growth points to low phosphate. It also doesn’t matter a jot as you just replant the tops and address the phosphate issue.

At this point I would normally just add in root tabs to bump things up. But because of the presence of BGA that needs addressing by upping the nitrate in the water column.

I’m deliberately avoiding the temptation to put ‘ppm’ after any nutrients as a) hobby grade tests are rubbish and b) it’s an unnecessary level of detail to solve BGA and GSA.

Only thing I’ll be doing is dosing EI (full NPK and micros on alternate days) for two weeks as EI grants you the gift of not having to think too heavily as a starting point. Appropriate nutrition in the water column should address both issues. Will reassess in two weeks. Other than that just usual water change and the odd trimming and replanting of the stems.


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## Thumper (9 Dec 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> From experience BGA is a good sign your NPK ratio is out of whack. The fact the BGA ends where the carpet ends says to me that soil has finally been stripped of nitrate by the carpet. This is also timed against the arrival of a lot of stem plants competing for resources very recently.


To add another POV to this: I think BGA is more in competition with our "good" biofilm, but due to missing water movement below the Eleocharis there are O2 poor regions in which our "good" biofilm dies off. I would bet you have no BGA in the back of the tank on the soil / glass.


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## Geoffrey Rea (9 Dec 2019)

Thumper said:


> To add another POV to this: I think BGA is more in competition with our "good" biofilm, but due to missing water movement below the Eleocharis there are O2 poor regions in which our "good" biofilm dies off. I would bet you have no BGA in the back of the tank on the soil / glass.



Yes, think so as well @Thumper the root system is extremely dense and choking everything below the substrate.   BGA has found its niche environment in this system. No reason to doubt that mine and your thoughts both apply in this situation simultaneously.

If I was really pushing the boat out then slicing the eleocharis back an inch from the glass and replacing with soil would be a quick remedy. This however may only be a temporary fix before the cycle happens again.

A more long term fix would be changing the foreground, possibly a sanded area right in the middle/front which drops the scape down to the bottom glass panel and a species of plant with larger, but less dense root system up the sides. Pogostemon helferi would fit the bill.


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## Geoffrey Rea (23 Dec 2019)

Got lazy, bit overgrown:









Mahoosive trimming session, no replanting of cuttings:

















Giving an ADA cocktail a go post trim this time; ECA, Green Gain, Phyton-Git and some additional iron. Other than that returning to lean dosing after a period of EI.

Tank usually colours up pretty quick in the days after a trim, but will see if any of the potions make any difference this time and report back any noticeable difference.

May do the foreground if there’s time over the Christmas break too.


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## Delirious (23 Dec 2019)

the carpet looks so pettable


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Dec 2019)

Delirious said:


> the carpet looks so pettable



It is


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## Jayefc1 (31 Dec 2019)

Haha spent much time petting it have you lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Jan 2020)

Petting allowed in this pool


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## Jayefc1 (1 Jan 2020)

@Geoffrey Rea  that case I'm on my way over love a good petting session


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## Geoffrey Rea (2 Jan 2020)

Feeding time from a kids eye view:


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Jan 2020)

Right... so admittedly I’ve been lazy with the premise of this tank. Decided to pull my finger out and crack on finishing up. Should take a month.

Anubias and buce up front:





Buce red on the rocks as it’s the only variety that will withstand the punishment from the two ONF lights:





There’s a third rock in the back left corner that I’ve held off planting on. Would have shaded the stems early on, but plopped some pinnatifida and some buce red on there now. Should make a nice contrast at the back with a third island:





The stems are right where I want them as will spend the next month (maybe a bit longer) pruning and bushing out to the right height now they’re growing clean from root to tip:





The macrandra at the back left is the pace setter as it takes the longest to grow so will attempt to match it over the  next month when pruning.

Unfortunately the super red started showing signs of potassium deficiency but is bouncing back as switched to EI dosing. The Staurogyne repens and Rotala Wallichii took a beasting from the Amanos I put in from the 4ft scape coming down. Undecided on whether to persevere with those or come up with an alternative.

Beyond that... mow the lawn and gradually pinch the pinnatifida back nice and compact.

The depth should be from the plant textures and sizes eventually:





They should fill up the back wall and deliver some height. Ideally it should look it’s best from child height looking slightly upwards, which was always the intention so the kids can see. We’ll see if it works.


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## Deano3 (3 Jan 2020)

Looks great and very vivid colours  wish my colours looked as good  what do you dose a all in one or EI etc as looks great.

Thanks dean 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Jan 2020)

Hi @Deano3

As the tank was started with Amazonia soil went with ADA’s fert system for the first few (2-3) months to give it a fair run. That’s just potassium and micros basically as you probably know. Theoretically nitrate is primarily located in the soil in massive amounts and phosphate is high in the tap water here due to agricultural practices anyway, so they’re omitted from liquid ferts during the startup phase. I had to be out the country in that period as well so easiest thing to ask someone else to do is pump two bottles once a day. Yes expensive water but a part of a proven system that is fool proof in my absence.

Switched to EI but omitted phosphate, plant growth went ballistic so went back to the remaining ADA ferts for a while until any deficiencies showed up. Restricting nitrate and iron under high light will colour up the plants temporarily but wouldn’t say it’s a good long term plan.

Now the soil is leaning out and it’s CEC has dropped it’s time for full EI for more rapid growth and lots of pruning.


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## Deano3 (3 Jan 2020)

So did EI bring vivid colours and was any deficiencys presnt when using it ?

Also what EI kit would you recomend ?

Thanks for that long write up very interesting.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Jan 2020)

EI is just a set of parameters for ferts per litre. You can use anything you want to achieve that @Deano3 

Personally if going for an all in one I vote TNC for an easy life and you’re supporting a British business. Forum members can point you to salts. The ADA soil and fert system is pricey but mostly fool proof if you follow their guidance.

I say just try things, it’s half the fun of the hobby.


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## Conort2 (3 Jan 2020)

Hi @Geoffrey Rea 
Do you use tap water in this one or is it RO? Growth and colours are amazing. 

cheers

Conor


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Jan 2020)

Hi @Conort2 

Went with a mix this time tap/RO just to give it a whirl. Tank is actually in a really shabby state as been busy taking down the 4ft. Will do it justice in the coming months.

TDS in the tank on water change day between 100-120ppm so should favour better nutrient uptake in theory. Plenty of argument to be had there so dropping that one like it’s hot 

I think the wet/dry sump system may have a lot more to do with the tank health. It is pretty heavily stocked but even then it’s holding its own. Saturated o2 is high throughout a 24hr cycle.


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## Conort2 (3 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hi @Conort2
> 
> Went with a mix this time tap/RO just to give it a whirl. Tank is actually in a really shabby state as been busy taking down the 4ft. Will do it justice in the coming months.
> 
> ...


Ah I was hoping you’d say tap! I have a TDS of more like 400. I feel like I struggle with certain species due to my harder water. Softer water tanks with a lower TDS  seem to produce healthier more vibrant plants. Rotalas for example just seem so much better in softer water.

Or maybe it’s just me and not the water lol!


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Jan 2020)

Too many factors at play to say @Conort2

Take into account the colour rendition from the full spectrum LED’s of the two ONF’s, plus they’re running at 100% giving a high exposure rate and the auto colour correction of the now ancient iPhone 5s for instance... This could account for the colour. However, the pictures are very accurate to real life.

The jury is still out on this tank running at 120ppm TDS, peeps can see if the end results are any good as will report them.

Fundamentally I just wanted to see how much light you could smack a tank with without issue so there’s oddity’s like; over the top filtration, wet/dry system compared to the usual canister, highly nutritious soil and EI at times, very very high co2 injection rate coupled with surface agitation to cap the maximum... hardly made it easy to find out any causal evidence that softer water is superior to harder water


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## Geoffrey Rea (5 Jan 2020)

More finger pulling out. Quick trip to AG for some change ups, shop is looking fab!

The influx of Amano shrimp turned the repens and wallichii to salad.

Staurogyne repens tapped out... Hydrocotyle tripartita tagged in:






Rotala wallichii shrimp food...
Rotala green in for an easy life:





The stems are picking up the pace now we’re back on EI. Can see growth day to day since the big prune:


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## Tim Harrison (5 Jan 2020)

Looking great


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## Jayefc1 (5 Jan 2020)

Looks amazing mate can see the pick up on the stems in the pics the light is really bringing out the colours 

Cheers
J


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## Geoffrey Rea (5 Jan 2020)

Should look smart with the stems up high and the valley cut low. Less hardscape, more plantscape.


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jan 2020)

The Amano’s very much enjoyed their meal of fresh Rotala green


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## CooKieS (7 Jan 2020)

Hence why I hate amano shrimps 

Tank is starting to look very cool and healthy btw


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jan 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Tank is starting to look very cool and healthy btw



The Rotala green would argue otherwise  The Amanos will be moved on eventually but in the meantime having to adapt...

Thanks @CooKieS looking forward to shaping it out.


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## Wookii (7 Jan 2020)

Great thread, and fantastic looking tank.

I really like the idea of having a sump on my possible future tank there are so many factors in favour of it. From the outside looking in, having never ran a sump before, it looks like maintenance should be easier versus a canister, and allows a hidden area to store heater, CO2 diffusers and other equipment (so the base minimum of items in the tank) - all with easy access without disturbing the tank - plus the sump system provides integral surface skimming, so no need for a separate unit, and higher saturated O2 levels. The only thing I can think it lacks compared to a canister, is the ability to extract detritus at the substrate level (at least I'm not aware of a way to add that in a sump system?).

How are you finding living with it now the tank has been running for a few months, versus say a decent quality canister filter? Do all the above positives hold true?

Also, how reliable have you found the hang-on overflow box? My paranoia tells me I'd want a physical hole in the tank on mine, to avoid the risks of the overflow siphon failing, but probably I'm being overly cautious?

(Also, as an aside - how do you prevent your hatches from carpet surfing?)


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## Geoffrey Rea (7 Jan 2020)

Hi @Wookii



Wookii said:


> The only thing I can think it lacks compared to a canister, is the ability to extract detritus at the substrate level (at least I'm not aware of a way to add that in a sump system?).



When draining the tank weekly I hang an intake shepherds hook to the lowest point in one of the front corners. Waft all the plants and begin the siphon. No problems so far but I was using a spare external filter filled with filter floss like a hoover, cleans without the need for a water change once in a while. Not really necessary though as draining the tank in the manner above during weekly water changes is very effective.



Wookii said:


> How are you finding living with it now the tank has been running for a few months, versus say a decent quality canister filter? Do all the above positives hold true?



Love it, to be direct. It out performs any canister due to o2 gains from the wet/dry and maintenance is simple as well as less frequent. The only part that can be time consuming is setting the ball valve correctly on the intake so it runs silent, but it's a couple of minutes. Hardly soul destroying.



Wookii said:


> Also, how reliable have you found the hang-on overflow box? My paranoia tells me I'd want a physical hole in the tank on mine, to avoid the risks of the overflow siphon failing, but probably I'm being overly cautious?



It works, but the model on the tank is a CPR unit from California. They specialise in acrylic and the unit itself is great. The only problem I had was the UPS delivery driver beat the hell out of the package and it had a crack which was fixed with Tensol. Can't speak of other manufacturer's though. I would also opt for a drilled tank with weir for simplicity if given the choice now, but this project was purely to see if you could retrofit a sump system without drilling, hence the overflow unit. Either way works, but if you design well enough back siphoning isn't an issue - design better basically and have adequate capacity in the sump relative to the display if you want to be cautious.

There is no outcome where this system can flood, even the ATO is 4 litres and with multiple failures of return pump, aqualifter pump and ATO dumping it all fits without a drop lost. Just takes some consideration. This is the benefit of building your own system and it's quite fun!



Wookii said:


> (Also, as an aside - how do you prevent your hatches from carpet surfing?)



Those two hatchetfish evaded me when I was dismantling the other tank last month, so they are housed here until they can be re-homed. Posted on the thread about jumpers before regarding your question:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/jumpers.59523/


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## Wookii (13 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> When draining the tank weekly I hang an intake shepherds hook to the lowest point in one of the front corners. Waft all the plants and begin the siphon. No problems so far but I was using a spare external filter filled with filter floss like a hoover, cleans without the need for a water change once in a while. Not really necessary though as draining the tank in the manner above during weekly water changes is very effective.



Thanks makes sense - though I like to set up automatic water changes (I hate manual water changing - I get PTSD flashbacks from carrying buckets around the house many years ago!), so siphoning during a water change wouldn't work so well for me in my planned future setup.

I also use a little old Fluval canister filter for monthly 'hoovering' duties!



Geoffrey Rea said:


> Love it, to be direct. It out performs any canister due to o2 gains from the wet/dry and maintenance is simple as well as less frequent. The only part that can be time consuming is setting the ball valve correctly on the intake so it runs silent, but it's a couple of minutes. Hardly soul destroying.



A quick question on that - what in essence are you doing there when adjusting the ball valve to get it to run silently? I had assumed the flow would have been determined entirely by the flow rate the pump is set at? Are you adjusting the inflow from the overflow so its partially filled with water at all times, rather than being mainly empty causing a height drop to the water which generates noise?

Could that be overcome by having an S-bend higher up in the overflow pipes? (Just thinking out loud here)



Wookii said:


> The only thing I can think it lacks compared to a canister, is the ability to extract detritus at the substrate level (at least I'm not aware of a way to add that in a sump system?).



Hate to quote myself, but I did a little research to see if a sump system could in fact have an extraction point at the substrate level (obviously in a addition to the usual overflow), without risking siphoning off the entire tank. It appears you can, and all that is needed from the safety perspective is a tiny hole in the inlet pipe being used, just below the intended surface level. Apparently, should there be a failure and the tank start to drain, as soon as the water level reaches the hole, the air inflow will break the siphon! A simple solution that just didn't occur to me! I guess beyond that I'd just need a ball valve to control the flow rate, and a pump inline to start the siphon. . . Plenty of food for thought.

PS - For any mods watching, this thread really deserves to be a Featured Journal!


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (13 Jan 2020)

Wookii said:


> A quick question on that - what in essence are you doing there when adjusting the ball valve to get it to run silently? I had assumed the flow would have been determined entirely by the flow rate the pump is set at? Are you adjusting the inflow from the overflow so its partially filled with water at all times, rather than being mainly empty causing a height drop to the water which generates noise?



The rate of return from the return pump is guided by how significant you want the rate of return to be (flow/distribution/surface agitation).

The rate of intake can be controlled in several ways. But two options are pertinent in this setup:

- The herbie method can be employed i.e. two intakes; the one you control and an overflow. The overflow is always 100% open and you fine tune the other so just a small amount goes into the overflow so it runs silent. Or....

- As is done in this setup you run the first intake tuned in. This means getting the air out of the return pipe by adjusting and the overflow is there just in case of emergency. 

In summary... the return pump is set to what you desire (constant) and you use the adjustment on the returns to control flow to match the return pump. Balance. 



Wookii said:


> PS - For any mods watching, this thread really deserves to be a Featured Journal!



Beyond my pay grade @Wookii up to the mods.

Just hope it’s useful to anyone who wants to give it a whirl and is interested in tailoring to their needs.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (23 Jan 2020)

Had a prune recently but still needs a fair bit of taming. Anyway, few pics...


----------



## Conort2 (23 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Had a prune recently but still needs a fair bit of taming. Anyway, few pics...
> 
> View attachment 130917
> 
> ...


Looks great, has really grown in well. The colours are great. Is that bacopa colorata at the back?

Your myriophyllum Guyana is really dense, do you trim replant the tops and save the bottoms? I’ve only had mine going for a month but seems to be spreading upwards rather than out and it already has a lot of light hitting it. Would love to achieve the same look.

cheers

Conor


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## Siege (23 Jan 2020)

Mini Geoff doing an excellent job with his pruning!


----------



## Jayefc1 (24 Jan 2020)

Wow that is some stunning growth mate the pinnatifida has gone crazy good job keeping it low ish beautiful colours too mate and the carpet looks just right for petting hahah 

J


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jan 2020)

Cheers @Conort2 its not very well manicured in those photos but shows how it is most days if you don’t stay on top of it.



Conort2 said:


> Is that bacopa colorata at the back?



Yeah it is. Found a pot that was on its last legs and took a chance on chucking it in. There’s a half dozen healthy stems hidden at the back that will be moved somewhere more appropriate in the future.



Conort2 said:


> Your myriophyllum Guyana is really dense, do you trim replant the tops and save the bottoms? I’ve only had mine going for a month but seems to be spreading upwards rather than out and it already has a lot of light hitting it. Would love to achieve the same look.



Mainly just been pinching it back to encourage bushing out. The odd really long stem I’ll pinch right at the base and replant to the desired height.

Tank is like having a tiger by the tail, it’s always requiring pruning to keep some sort of shape so pinching is the easiest method when you’re passing by and want to correct something. It’s just a string of 2 minute pruning sessions using thumb and forefinger most weeks. Tank was designed for rapid growth after all, occasionally the scissors are used in force though and I’ll throw away/replant the tops.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jan 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> pinnatifida has gone crazy good job keeping it low ish



Actually quite long in this photo @Jayefc1 when you pinch all the longer leaves it’s more in scale and looks tight. Also know the Anubias and buce at the front is too large but had no where else to store it. Will probably replace with some mini buces at some point to get everything back in scale.


----------



## CooKieS (24 Jan 2020)

I'm surprised your pinnitifida is still green with that insane amount of lightning, is it due to the onf led Spectrum? Or because you are fertilising with EI?

Love the m.guyana, Beautiful little green stem with great leaf structure.


----------



## Wookii (24 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Actually quite long in this photo @Jayefc1 when you pinch all the longer leaves it’s more in scale and looks tight. Also know the Anubias and buce at the front is too large but had no where else to store it. Will probably replace with some mini buces at some point to get everything back in scale.



I was actually thinking how nice those big bunches of anubias and buce looked to be honest! What variety of anubias is it?


----------



## Jayefc1 (24 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Anubias and buce at the front is too large but had no where else to store it. Will probably replace with some mini buces at some point to get everything back in scale.


When you do I know of an excellent little garden they will be more than welcome to become residents off 

J


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jan 2020)

CooKieS said:


> I'm surprised your pinnitifida is still green with that insane amount of lightning, is it due to the onf led Spectrum? Or because you are fertilising with EI?



Due to EI dosing this week @CooKieS



Bit of a longer answer but may be of interest to someone else on here...

How I go about cutting Pinnatifida is also related to how the tank is being dosed at the time i.e. lean dosed (minus additional nitrate, phosphate and iron) or EI.

If we’re restricting the water column I’ll just prune leaves. Encourages smaller growth due to nutrient restriction and the high light will force the leaves to tan.

When dosing full EI the focus is on cutting the runners under the nodes to encourage spreading. Green leaves, more chlorophyll, more photosynthesis, more ability to recover = better spreading growth.

The issue with dosing the water column this way just to suit one species is it may be at the detriment to everything else in the tank. Root tabs and rich soil offers flexibility. But Pinnatifida seems to operate like a conveyor belt, cutting beneath the nodes forces new growth forwards with the top section and the old section below the cut will either snuff it or become a new conveyor belt of growth if dosing is to its liking.

A lot on UKAPS about this plant being difficult/not successful in hard water/prone to burning out.... Have grown it in extremely hard water and soft water with the same success simply by dosing according to its needs that are triggered by the aquascaper through the way its cut - simple.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jan 2020)

Wookii said:


> I was actually thinking how nice those big bunches of anubias and buce looked to be honest! What variety of anubias is it?



Petite I think @Wookii but truth be told I’m pretty much Anubias blind once the leaves are smaller than a five pence coin


----------



## Conort2 (24 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Cheers @Conort2 its not very well manicured in those photos but shows how it is most days if you don’t stay on top of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it is. Found a pot that was on its last legs and took a chance on chucking it in. There’s a half dozen healthy stems hidden at the back that will be moved somewhere more appropriate in the future.



Looks good, I tried it ages again low tech but it just melted away and died. Please let me know if you ever have any trimmings going spare to buy as I’d like to give it a go again now I’m using co2. I don’t believe it’s that hard a plant.

Looks like il have to get on top of trimming my myriophyllum! It’s a beast when it gets going. Stem growth in high light high tech aquariums can be a pain to keep on top of. 

cheers

Conor


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jan 2020)

Conort2 said:


> Looks good, I tried it ages again low tech but it just melted away and died. Please let me know if you ever have any trimmings going spare to buy as I’d like to give it a go again now I’m using co2. I don’t believe it’s that hard a plant.



Not really tested it out yet @Conort2 so can’t say what it does or doesn’t like.

It really was on its last legs when it went in so placed it right at the back so it wouldn’t get pelted by 200 PAR thanks to some shading. Downside is it doesn’t get any Co2 mist back there.

The Amanos  have turned their attention to the Macrandra in the back left corner now so suspect that patch may become vacant pretty soon. Can try moving the Bacopa there and see how it does.

If you’re looking more immediately give the good folks at Aquarium Gardens a try and see if they have some in or coming in soon. It’s a limited edition line from Tropica so may not be on the website.


----------



## Conort2 (24 Jan 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not really tested it out yet @Conort2 so can’t say what it does or doesn’t like.
> 
> It really was on its last legs when it went in so placed it right at the back so it wouldn’t get pelted by 200 PAR thanks to some shading. Downside is it doesn’t get any Co2 mist back there.
> 
> ...


Oh thanks, didn’t realise they had anymore than the limited edition plants shown on their website. Might give them a shout at some point then.

cheers

conor


----------



## Jayefc1 (24 Jan 2020)

Conort2 said:


> didn’t realise they had anymore than the limited edition plants shown on their website. Might give them a shout at some point then


They have so many diffrent plants coming in I guess it would almost be a full time job just updating the web site every other day lol

And I'm pretty sure Dave or Steve would add what ever you wanted to there plant orders

J


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## Geoffrey Rea (5 Feb 2020)

Another prune...

Got busy and left it two weeks so the Pinnatifida got excited. Less prune, more land clearance:










Thinking of moving the super red to establish a better ‘v’ shaped valley on the diagonal. Also considering some Helferi to break up the lawn, just a dash here and there up front. Really not keen on a sand foreground on this one so think that idea will get skipped.


----------



## CooKieS (5 Feb 2020)

I love how fast this tank is growing! 

Instead of the Helferi, you could try some S. repens, or some Eriocaulon? I think the leaf shape and color of the helferi would differ to much from the other plants.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (6 Feb 2020)

Have had both in there before @CooKieS

The amanos ravaged the repens to a stump. Will move a lot of shrimp into the 1200 eventually though and totally agree repens would fit the bill.

The eriocaulon did well for a couple of months in there then started to deteriorate.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Feb 2020)

That is just phenomenal growth.


----------



## Wookii (11 Mar 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


>


@Geoffrey Rea - quick question if I may - how do you go about removing the lid off the 'tickle box' - do those pipe fitting unscrew somehow?

Also, what kind of water level do you typically get above the sponge in the trickle box? Do you get any noise from the water fall in this box?


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## Geoffrey Rea (11 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> how do you go about removing the lid off the 'tickle box' - do those pipe fitting unscrew somehow?



Yes they do @Wookii you simply unscrew the unions and those sections slide out. Allows the lid to be removed or for the whole box to be lifted out for maintenance (every three months).



Wookii said:


> Also, what kind of water level do you typically get above the sponge in the trickle box? Do you get any noise from the water fall in this box?



The water level is below the sponges deliberately, this is controlled by a) how many holes you drill for the trickle plate and b) the size of holes you drill. 1mm-1.5mm holes are plenty big enough and with enough of them flow through will be more rapid than you would expect. Water doesn’t really get a chance to build up in the box.

Water falls down onto the sponge and the noise is suppressed as there is no water breaking/bubbles bursting to create noise. Just hold a saturated sponge under a running tap to experience this, exactly the same inside the filter box.

The holes drilled into the bottom of the box also trickle gently onto the K1 media underneath. The system is silent. You would have to open the cabinet door and put your head close to the sump to hear water movement. It was a priority of the design as it is located in the living room.


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## Jayefc1 (11 Mar 2020)

Hello mate hope your well not see you post for a while hows the tanks coming along 
Any chance of some update pics on this little beast


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## Geoffrey Rea (11 Mar 2020)

Hey @Jayefc1 

Just busy as can be at the moment so avoiding distractions. Here’s the tank tonight, it’s due a trim this weekend when I get the chance as had two weeks without maintenance. You’ll have to forgive how overgrown it is but still not giving any hassle, just keeps trucking:


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## Jayefc1 (11 Mar 2020)

@Geoffrey Rea Still looks amazing mate even if its had no maintenance 
Sometimes life just gets prioritised over tanks mate as long as you and family are well


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## Wookii (11 Mar 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Yes they do @Wookii you simply unscrew the unions and those sections slide out. Allows the lid to be removed or for the whole box to be lifted out for maintenance (every three months).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats great stuff thanks Geoff, makes a lot of sense.

So do the sponges in the trickle box not act as pre-filters, given 4 weekly cleaning - is that done  more via the black sponges in the overflow? How often do you have to clean them?

Do they also prevent any stray shrimp getting into your trickle box also?


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> So do the sponges in the trickle box not act as pre-filters, given 4 weekly cleaning - is that done more via the black sponges in the overflow? How often do you have to clean them?



The sponges in the *overflow* *box* catch large debris like leaves. These I’ll clean whenever, one minute job. The overflow box has shrimp living in there permanently. Occasionally I lock off the flow so they can make their way back through the overflow box if they wish, but they seem content letting food come to them.

Some make it through to below in the *filter/trickle box* in the sump and breed in there very successfully. Never more than a dozen though that are youn’uns that slip the net so to speak, grow to maturity and get put in the display with their offspring during quarterly sump maintenance.

The sponges in the filter box in the sump don’t get that dirty - ever. Quite surprised by it actually. There’s a coarse on top, medium in the middle and fine ppi foam against the drip plate. They’re useful as they suppress noise from falling water, disperse water evenly to the drip plate and control organic waste size before travelling through the drip plate holes. This stops the drip plate holes from clogging up and makes maintenance periods longer.

You predominately get scum building up in the sump over the months at the lowest part of the sump of course, against the bottom glass as the bacteria in the sponges work it down to fine waste, then gravity let’s it settle there. Just siphon it out when you can (again - every three months for this setup). Sumps offer stability.

The K1 is my primary media for surface area, so literally wash all sponges in tap water as and when and don’t worry about it.


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## DeepMetropolis (12 Mar 2020)

Reading more and planning on my own sump, your idea with the sponges in a sealed container looks real good especially that it is quiet as you say..


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Mar 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Reading more and planning on my own sump, your idea with the sponges in a sealed container looks real good especially that it is quiet as you say..



It’s fun. Start with the problems and find the simplest solution. Limiting your budget helps, forces effective thinking within the remit of the resources. Looking forward to seeing your solutions


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## genomecop (14 Mar 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Just for a bit of perspective this is 4 x Kessil A160’s @ 100% through 2ft depth versus two ONF Flat One’s @ 35% through 1ft:
> 
> View attachment 129207
> 
> ...


 
Is there a build thread on the large tank, right hand side of photo? Thanks.


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## Geoffrey Rea (15 Mar 2020)

@genomecop link below:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-year-new-scape.56501/


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Mar 2020)

Still ain’t trimmed 





Think this is an ideal time to let my six year old son loose with the scissors for more practice. No matter how short he goes it still won’t be enough.


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## Siege (19 Mar 2020)

He’ll do a brilliant job! 

it’s amazing what massive co2, o2 and a million par can do!


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## Mark.A (19 Mar 2020)

Impressive growth there Geoffrey!


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## PARAGUAY (20 Mar 2020)

I love that look. Appear to have missed a lot of (@Geoffrey Rea )this definitely going to a look through.


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## Geoffrey Rea (25 Mar 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> PVC plumbing. Now... I can confidently say welding PVC plumbing together in your shed, by torch light, in a respirator mask, at 3am, not only raises a few eyebrows from the neighbours.
> 
> But if you do it whilst drinking beer it invariably leads to some mistakes:
> 
> ...



Turns out every mistake is just a solution waiting to be repurposed. A means of watering the vegetables from the roots:


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## Mr.Shenanagins (27 Mar 2020)

Now that is really neat!!


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Mar 2020)

Ethan’s trim not too shabby for a six year old on a set of steps:





Transitioning this tank back to full rock hard tap water over the next two weeks. RO is stealing the enjoyment of caring for this setup so opting for an easier maintenance regime.


----------



## Geoffrey Rea (17 Apr 2020)

Another trim and back on full tap water which has brought much happiness. Green Neons also seem happier too despite their absence in the photo (kids running around).

Growth has slowed with the change in water parameters back towards hard water. The tank is healthy enough though so see no reason to go back to RO for now.


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## Jayefc1 (17 Apr 2020)

It looks stunning mate really stunning hope you and the family are all good missed you not posting about a tank In a while


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## Geoffrey Rea (17 Apr 2020)

Yeah sorry @Jayefc1 gone all FarmVille lately 

Monitoring the Co2 situation before starting up the AS1200. I think the comp tank idea has well and truly been shot to hell.

If supply becomes dependable on gas then will likely plant the AS1200 out using plants from the AS600 and the 10l shrimp tank that is comprised of specimens from the old 4ft tank. Still got Frodo stone and manzanita to scape with from the last setup. It would be a ‘have a go hero’ startup as it would be lean planting to begin with. But, worthy of a journal post or two. 

Hope you and yours are keeping well.


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## Tim Harrison (17 Apr 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Ethan’s trim not too shabby for a six year old on a set of steps


Looking great... Trained your young Padawan well you have!


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## Jayefc1 (17 Apr 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> gone all FarmVille lately


Nothing wrong with that John boy.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Monitoring the Co2 situation before starting up the AS1200.


Where do you get your co2 from mate 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> I think the comp tank idea has well and truly been shot to hell.


Yeah with social distancing cant really scape with Dolores lol how are her tanks coming along 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> If supply becomes dependable on gas then will likely plant the AS1200 out using plants from the AS600 and the 10l shrimp tank that is comprised of specimens from the old 4ft tank


That would be tight for a 1200 


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hope you and yours are keeping well.


We are all good jemma is still at work so been home with ollie for 5 weeks now love him to bits but I've never had 5 weeks of work so struggling with the boredom a little lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (17 Apr 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Where do you get your co2 from mate



I’m not mate. Could run both tanks for two months but not longer.


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## Jayefc1 (17 Apr 2020)

Oh that's not really.lkng enough is it


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## Geoffrey Rea (17 Apr 2020)

Meh @Jayefc1 .... Will just do a night mission to @Siege ’s fortress where we all know he has mountains of the stuff stashed away 






Sympathies on the job front buddy. Same this end here but like you, time with the kids is priceless.


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## Jayefc1 (18 Apr 2020)

@Siege mission that sounds like a mission impossible with the protection of the ADA dog hope you have some super hero skills besides farming lol


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## Siege (20 Apr 2020)

Haha!

I’ve got a spare 1.5kg for my 900 and that’s it!  When the 600 runs out it’ll go without.

ADA dog has had his eyesight fixed by a massive steroid dose. Plus side is he can now see you burglar types, downside is he is fat as anything so slower!


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 May 2020)

“What you doing this evening?”

“Oh, just a light trim on the 600...”

A few beers on and a peruse of a copy of The Art Of Nature Aquarium... it appears a rescape is happening 😂


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## Jayefc1 (24 May 2020)

Haha that is obviously a dangerous combination


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 May 2020)

You’ll have to forgive the haze, just put the sand in but water was gin clear before that so a good sign.

Few foreground details left to sort on each tank but nothing major. Both scapes finally up and running, hurrah!


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## Deano3 (24 May 2020)

Stunning tanks , is the larger one on the right a 900 as looks huge ?, love the new 600 layout.

Just looked again must be 1200

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 May 2020)

Thanks @Deano3 , 600 and a 1200.



Both just need to grow in now.


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## Deano3 (24 May 2020)

That 1200 is stunning, i am thinking about a 900 at the minute just still doing a bit research on filter to use and trying to find more pics of 900s and measuring up etc.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 May 2020)

The two display 900’s in Aquarium Gardens run on Oase Biomaster 600 thermo’s @Deano3 . You can go Eheim Pro 4+ 350T for similar pricing. The Pro 4 600 would be better suited but won’t be a thermo.

I find the Eheim Pro3e 600T the best filter I’ve purchased but it’s a pricey option. The prime button is a PITA though, nothing’s perfect.

Economy wise the Oase 600T works well if you clean the prefilter regularly and keep media to a minimum.

Or.....

Take the plunge and try a sump.


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## Steve Buce (27 May 2020)

Great looking setups


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 May 2020)

Thanks @Steve Buce 

Will be pulling the proverbial finger out with the trimming these coming months to create something special. Lost enthusiasm recently, but like always with aquascaping a revival is not far down the road.


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## Deano3 (27 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Thanks @Steve Buce
> 
> Will be pulling the proverbial finger out with the trimming these coming months to create something special. Lost enthusiasm recently, but like always with aquascaping a revival is not far down the road.


Yeah it happens mate ,think i will end up going with the oase 600 and if needed i could get a small power head or something.

Are you cabinets the concrete grey ? And are you happy with them ?



Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 May 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Are you cabinets the concrete grey ? And are you happy with them ?



Yep, concrete grey.

The 1200 is the new metal frame design, the 600 the original.


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## Deano3 (27 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Yep, concrete grey.
> 
> The 1200 is the new metal frame design, the 600 the original.


Thats what colour i am going to go for rather than the gloss white, are you happy woth the cabinets any idea if the 900 has partition inside ?

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 May 2020)

Concrete grey goes with most things so if you redecorate it’s less of an issue @Deano3



Deano3 said:


> are you happy woth the cabinets



At the price bracket the Aquascaper cabinets come in at they fit the bill. Could they be better, yes. But to do that you would be doubling the price and seeking custom.



Deano3 said:


> any idea if the 900 has partition inside ?



Haven’t actually seen the 900 with metal frame yet but see below:



On the 1200 the frame only supports the perimeter of the base glass, the centre is floating. That partition on the left is just a board that slides out, it has no structural purpose. This makes the usable space within the cabinet very welcome with nothing in the way.

However, you would be forgiven for having brown trousers at the site of no central support at the front. Material choice will allow them to design it this way maximising internal space, I assume the 900 will be the same design being shorter in length than the 1200.


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## Deano3 (27 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Concrete grey goes with most things so if you redecorate it’s less of an issue @Deano3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for that mate really helpful as you say you cant go wrong with the price for tank and cabinet, my living room is already grey so should go nicely.

But that has defently made up my mind a AS900 concrete grey it is.

Much appreciated thanks for the pic and very tidy cabinet mate
Dean

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


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## Alex Papp (27 May 2020)

If you're still looking for the Cabomba have a look at the Stock list of Flowgrow, I've got a few plants from there, German sellers.

https://www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticplants/cabomba-furcata


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 May 2020)

Thanks @Alex Papp

Rescaped and reverted this tank back to hard tap water from RO last week but appreciate the thought.






Currently looking for suitable fish rather than plants right now but going round in circles.


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## Siege (27 May 2020)

Where did you get such a Useful blue container and plastic lid?  😂

#policemanstopthatthief


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## Siege (27 May 2020)

Phoned 999, they said they’ll send someone round. Will be a while though as they’ve lost the key to the gun cupboard 😂😂


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## LondonDragon (28 May 2020)

Featured on FB page!


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 May 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Featured on FB page!



Huh? Who’s FB page @LondonDragon ?

Edit: Oh I see, UKAPS page.


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## Siege (28 May 2020)

Fame at last Geoffers! 👍😃


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## LondonDragon (28 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Huh? Who’s FB page @LondonDragon ?
> 
> Edit: Oh I see, UKAPS page.


Have not gone through Journals in a very long time, so have made a start from the latest posted and will work my way back, might revive some old journals in the process too!


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## Jayefc1 (28 May 2020)

View attachment 149279
[/QUOTE]
Hope it's not this pic on Facebook lol


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## LondonDragon (28 May 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> View attachment 149279


Hope it's not this pic on Facebook lol
[/QUOTE]
Hahaha hmmmm course not, it was full still


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## Jayefc1 (28 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Currently looking for suitable fish rather than plants right now but going round in circles.


What fish you thinking mate


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## Ady34 (28 May 2020)

Looking great Geoffrey. Rescape looks epic. 
I like the line up of the 600 beside the bigger tank with the same cabinet finish......mmmm 🤔


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 May 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> Hahaha hmmmm course not, it was full still



Just be grateful that rescape was done in under three hours. You wouldn’t be sharing the photo if I’d sank any more beers 😂

Pirate ship... Skeleton on the lav hooked up to an air pump...





One of these days... gonna sneak into Aquarium Gardens when Steve, Arianwen and Dave are busy and pop this sucker in one of the scapes with an eheim airpump whilst they’re distracted. Maybe Filipe’s 1500... or the moss scape 😂


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 May 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> What fish you thinking mate



Keep going round in circles @Jayefc1  so having a think. Happy to have a mixed bag on the 1200 but the 600 needs a single species that suits.




Ady34 said:


> Looking great Geoffrey. Rescape looks epic.
> I like the line up of the 600 beside the bigger tank with the same cabinet finish......mmmm 🤔



Cheers @Ady34

The Pinnatifida is going to need some love next few weeks after the rescape. When I had the millennium rock covered in pinna on the floor our youngest jumped on it like a rocking horse. It’ll recover but giving it some R&R before going too scissor happy (the bits everyone doesn’t see when rescaping with young kids 😂).

It was either a 600 and 1200, or settle on a 1500. Love your 1500 by the way @Ady34 a real classic on UKAPS and a great source of inspiration. It’s @Siege with his two 600’s and the 900 that got the scape envy going.

Looking forward to your all out ADA setup @Ady34 will be something special I’m sure


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 May 2020)

Siege said:


> Fame at last Geoffers! 👍😃



At least it wasn’t on Crimewatch @Siege #ItsMyBlueTub 😂


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## Ady34 (28 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Cheers @Ady34
> 
> The Pinnatifida is going to need some love next few weeks after the rescape. When I had the millennium rock covered in pinna on the floor our youngest jumped on it like a rocking horse. It’ll recover but giving it some R&R before going too scissor happy (the bits everyone doesn’t see when rescaping with young kids 😂).
> 
> ...


Ha, the joys of young kids 
Two tanks has to be better than one, three is just greedy 
Thanks for the kind words also, and I’m looking forward to getting the 30c up and running.
Some lighting you have over the 600 too 
Cheerio,


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## Jayefc1 (28 May 2020)

Has @Siege actually got all 3 scapes yet though lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 May 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Has @Siege actually got all 3 scapes yet though lol



Think he’s nearly there. The hardscape looks great on the AS600 rescape.



Ady34 said:


> Some lighting you have over the 600 too



With a keen eye on balance and ample o2 all sorts are possible. Wouldn’t attempt that much light without the wet/dry system or shielding with a heavy amount of floating plants.


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Ha, the joys of young kids



If anyone wants to know how many Jammy Dodger biscuits it takes to make a mess of your scape on startup, the answer is eight. Courtesy of the youngest trying to feed the non-existent fish.

Oh boy 🤦🏻‍♂️ Would scream if it weren’t so darn funny 😂


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## Ady34 (31 May 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> If anyone wants to know how many Jammy Dodger biscuits it takes to make a mess of your scape on startup, the answer is eight. Courtesy of the youngest trying to feed the non-existent fish.
> 
> Oh boy 🤦🏻‍♂️ Would scream if it weren’t so darn funny 😂


Surely it depends on how big your scape is.....and how many non existent fish you need to feed 🤷‍♂️
At least you can see the funny side.


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## Jayefc1 (31 May 2020)

Oooops got to admit I did have a little chuckle to myself i take it that's  the EI of jammy Dodgers as like ady says it depends on tank size and non existing fish

On a more serious not where the jammy Dodgers edible when you found them or well dunked


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Ady34 said:


> Surely it depends on how big your scape is.....and how many non existent fish you need to feed 🤷‍♂️



Well it’s only a hundred litres so eight is clearly an overdose.



Jayefc1 said:


> On a more serious not where the jammy Dodgers edible when you found them or well dunked



Very much well dunked @Jayefc1
Pulverised apart from their jammy centre. I would rather a hobnob, maybe a rich tea biscuit, but these things are like Dennerle snow drops - they just expand in water.

Seriously though, this is honestly going to take longer to sort than the actual rescape 😂 You never see a Green Aqua video on how to rinse Jammy Dodgers out of the roots of your Pinnatifida do ya? Where’s all the handy tips and tricks on how to deal with these sorts of scenarios? 

Haven’t even got around to the sump yet.


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## Jayefc1 (31 May 2020)

Not just a quick syphon out and water change then lol 
Wife says you got any pics lol


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Not just a quick syphon out and water change then lol
> Wife says you got any pics lol



Was definitely not @Jayefc1

What a faff. Didn’t take any photo’s Jay, actually pleased about that to be honest. Don’t want to relive that six hour ordeal ever again quite frankly 😂

Whilst we’re on the topic of mishaps on this tank... Mentioned to @Siege that one of the ONF’s got left on all night as well the other night. Wife says, “came down at 5am and one of your tank lights was on. Switched it off because didn’t think you would want it on for that long”. Timer got knocked off and no one noticed - sixteen hour lighting period!!!!

It will be a miracle if this scape makes it to one month. But if it does no one else has any excuses. If you can bring a new scape back from being Jammy Dogered and an accidental sixteen hour light period in the same week, everything is recoverable 😂


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## Geoffrey Rea (2 Jun 2020)

She lives!!






It’s been a bit full on since the tank got Jammy Dogered and treated to an accidental sixteen hour photoperiod. Happy to say almost everything is getting back on track now, just the Ludwigia super red to turn around and it’s back to business as usual.


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## Jayefc1 (2 Jun 2020)

Looking good considering the ordeal it's been through mate


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## Geoffrey Rea (2 Jun 2020)

Easily ran 600-700 litres through this 120 litre system since Sunday to remove those eight bloody biscuits @Jayefc1 😂


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2020)

A few photo’s of what tipping a load of biscuits into a tank can do to a new setup. These are from the week after the incident/buscuitgate scandal:

















All the lower end of the stems had an array of algae, a collectoritis of algae throughout the tank and BBA and staghorn affecting epiphyte leaf edges and roots.

Always tell folks to persevere through problem patches so time to put that into practice myself.

Its pretty clear pruning this tank back would be the harbinger of death. To take the remaining plant resources to remove what is effectively a system wide problem is like peeing on a house fire, ain’t gonna work.

Tap TDS is reliably 450-500ppm here, which is fine on a healthy setup I’ve found, but not optimal for recovering the situation. Once things settled changed the water to 50% tap and 50% rain water. After adding dechlorinator, magnesium sulphate and potassium sulphate to the water change water, in tank TDS sat bang on 250ppm. Bit more reliable for nutrient uptake.

The existing stem growth is a write off, have to accept that, and one by one their leaves will jettison. Placed root tabs directly under these so they can grow themselves out of trouble. Perhaps a little counter intuitive, but have increased the light on the ONF’s from 50% to 75%. Co2 is spot on so increase is not a problem.

Within 24hrs new clean growth appeared. Clean as a whistle and continuing. When it gets significant enough, will cut the clean tops and remove the affected lower portions and replant the tops.

Pinnatifida: the awkward one. Saw a good post on here yesterday regarding this plant but can’t remember which thread. Best success I’ve had with it is with higher than normal K input per week, but restricted N in the water column (hence the root tabs under the stems to provide for the stems what the water column will not). So gone with this dosing schedule again. Little by little new leaves have begun to appear and all the old growth is shedding leaf by leaf.

Epiphites... There’s very little I can do at this stage to help them. Where possible I’ve tucked the Buce/Anubius roots into the substrate for additional access to nutrients. In my experience if you hassle these plants when they’re suffering you’re rewarded with failure. Better to improve the water column, keep it clean and stable, then wait it out.

Tank is being double dosed with glutaraldehyde and the valve to the trickle system in the sump is fully opened at night to ensure maximum agitation for gas exchange out of the tank.

Still not out of the woods but satisfied everything that is appropriate to do has been done, just need to sit and monitor. Will update at one month.


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## Nick72 (20 Jun 2020)

Thank you for the detailed post and problem solving tips @Geoffrey Rea 

I learn a lot from your threads.


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2020)

That’s nice to hear @Nick72 

Glad it’s of value to you. I’m learning along the way too 

There’s always something new to learn in this hobby.


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## Wookii (20 Jun 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> A few photo’s of what tipping a load of biscuits into a tank can do to a new setup. These are from the week after the incident/buscuitgate scandal:
> 
> View attachment 150675
> 
> ...



Wow, sorry to hear of your woes Geoff. Are all the issues related to ‘Biscuit-Gate’ or more the transition to tap water?

You mention a double dose of glut, but how much glut do you typically dose - just the bottle recommend amount or more?


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## Deano3 (20 Jun 2020)

Great explanating Geoffrey i have said the same as nick very helpful to us less experienced folks so thanks, i mist say i laughed soon as i seen the biscuitgate scandal  you have to laugh though dont you, hopefully will all start to pull round mate defently sounds like heading in right direction. Keep us updated mate  

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2020)

Wookii said:


> Wow, sorry to hear of your woes Geoff. Are all the issues related to ‘Biscuit-Gate’ or more the transition to tap water?



Hard tap water here is fine @Wookii run plenty of setups using the tap here:









Even the first scape on this thread was run on tap for a while.

Will put myself out there though on this one and state, personally I’ve never had as clean and healthy growth as when I ran this tank on RO mixed with tap water to 120ppm TDS. 

Tap here is high in calcium carbonate so adding a dash of tap to RO along with K and Mg to give a 3:2:1 Ca:K:Mg ratio worked a treat.

It worked out as 80% RO to 20% tap plus a dash of Epsom salt and potassium sulphate or chloride.

Is it worth messing around with RO though.... I hated it, was ruining the hobby for me.

However, given the situation and the amount of available rain water recently it would be silly not to temporarily take advantage of chasing those parameters again to help this setup recover using free rain water. Make no mistake, it will be going back on tap afterwards.

Have previously got stung by using rain water though, one of the worst outbreaks of cyanobacteria in a tank - took six months to get it out and the smell was atrocious.

As for biscuitgate pretty used to it. Had hot wheels cars, teddy bears, Cheerios etc put in the tanks over the last few years. Tank will recover but all that sodium and sugar dispersed everywhere was never going to end well.




Wookii said:


> You mention a double dose of glut, but how much glut do you typically dose - just the bottle recommend amount or more?



Standard recommended dose of 2% glutaraldehyde is 1ml per 50l. Double simply being 2ml per 50l.

Half life of Glutaraldehyde in freshwater is estimated to be 10-12 hours. If necessary to maintain a consistent concentration in your tank you can calculate what you would need to add every 12 hours until next water change, but it is rather a faff.

I just add before lights on everyday.




Deano3 said:


> you have to laugh though dont you, hopefully will all start to pull round mate defently sounds like heading in right direction. Keep us updated mate //emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png



Should be fine @Deano3 will just take a little TLC


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## Wookii (20 Jun 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hard tap water here is fine @Wookii run plenty of setups using the tap here



Yeah, I was meaning more the transition for leaves grown in soft water, adapting to hard water. I have hard water too, and plants grow just fine.

I was just interested if transitioning from one to the other might cause any issues, as I will have to do that myself moving from hard water in my current tank, to RO water in my new larger tank.


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2020)

Wookii said:


> Yeah, I was meaning more the transition for leaves grown in soft water, adapting to hard water.


 
Ah I see, my bad...




Wookii said:


> I was just interested if transitioning from one to the other might cause any issues, as I will have to do that myself moving from hard water in my current tank, to RO water in my new larger tank.



Personally not had any issues @Wookii


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## Geoffrey Rea (24 Jun 2020)

One month update...





What a month. Didn’t envisage biscuitgate eclipsing what should have been a very easy startup.

Slowly clawing this tank back. Kept finding biscuit bits in the Pinnatifida roots on the rock on the right as recently as a few days ago. Really difficult to tease out/siphon. Got fed up and tore the lot out to get things straight, hence the bare millennium stone in the right mid-ground. Pinnatifida will colonise it again soon enough. Have removed the Fissidens in the foreground as it was attracting thread algae, but haven’t found any in the tank since, one down.

The BBA isn’t spreading now the stems are getting taller. Staghorn is all gone, so another down. Still letting the fresh tops grow a little more on the Ludwigia super red/Rotala green/Rotala H’ra before chopping and removing the ratty lower halves.

The Littorella uniflora is starting go grow through the MC, but overall the carpet has got away unscathed:





Month two will be an all out eviction process for any remaining algae. It will either be BBA or Green Spot algae on the anubius and Buce that will be the last one standing. 

The water was softened tail end of this month as a bump for the plants, but back on hard Cambridgeshire tap again now.


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## LondonDragon (24 Jun 2020)

Nice recovery  latest photo shared on the UKAPS Facebook  page 👏 (with a mention to biscuitgate)


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## Tom Michael (25 Jun 2020)

Such an informative thread that I some how missed- thanks for sharing Geoffrey. 

I have been contemplating mixing my own hard two water with rainwater. Do you attribute a previous algae out break to this in the past?


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## Geoffrey Rea (25 Jun 2020)

Tom Michael said:


> I have been contemplating mixing my own hard two water with rainwater. Do you attribute a previous algae out break to this in the past?



Not algae @Tom Michael but cyanobacteria. The rain barrel water apparently smelled according to my wife, but had a cold at the time and couldn’t smell much. It’s a pretty obvious smell if all your faculties are working. That rain barrel had no lid on though so silly really.

Probably stating the obvious but you need to aerate rain water that has been standing and watch out for ammonia. It’s usually not so bad if it’s rained recently but I still treat with prime for the full volume of water being changed.

PS as an aside, we use a dehumidifier to dry washing/keep conservatory dry in winter. Can use that water as a means to soften your tap as well.


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## Tom Michael (25 Jun 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Not algae @Tom Michael but cyanobacteria. The rain barrel water apparently smelled according to my wife, but had a cold at the time and couldn’t smell much. It’s a pretty obvious smell if all your faculties are working. That rain barrel had no lid on though so silly really.
> 
> Probably stating the obvious but you need to aerate rain water that has been standing and watch out for ammonia. It’s usually not so bad if it’s rained recently but I still treat with prime for the full volume of water being changed.
> 
> PS as an aside, we use a dehumidifier to dry washing/keep conservatory dry in winter. Can use that water as a means to soften your tap as well.


That’s interesting thanks. I can grow most plants fine in hard water however I spend a lot of time in Japan using ADA system w soft water and this uses much less co2.

No space in house for RO so rainwater it will have to be, thanks for the info re airation


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Jul 2020)

The tide is turning:





Few pockets of BBA to sort out but generally pleased with the bounce back.

Have temporarily banked the sand up to bury some of the roots on the Buces and Anubias to give them a bump.

Next maintenance session I’ll drain the tank and paint the rocks with glutaraldehyde to get them clear again. The remaining BBA on the lower reaches of the stems can just be cut off and then replant the healthy tops, job done.  Just leaves some misting on the leaves of the epiphytes to do daily until it’s evicted then can crack on with some foreground details.


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## SRP3006 (1 Jul 2020)

It absolutely amazes me how you can blast the anubias with so much light and for them to respond so well and not be covered with algae. Mine always look so poor in comparison. 
Pure inspiration.


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Jul 2020)

SRP3006 said:


> It absolutely amazes me how you can blast the anubias with so much light and for them to respond so well and not be covered with algae.



Path of Co2 mist:






Also try to encourage their roots into the soil. Plenty of Co2, access to nutrients in the soil and water column... Light no problem.

Just don’t add biscuits and should be fine 😂


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## SRP3006 (1 Jul 2020)

So aiming to cover the slow growing epiphytes with co2 mist is giving them unrivalled access to the co2 in the tank. I will try to set up future tanks with this in mind  They have always been a problem for me to be honest. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Jul 2020)

Quick update:





Finally seem to have the reins back on this setup. Not going to sugar coat it, it has been quite challenging to handle all the algae issues. In a way it has been fun to have the challenge though. As predicted there’s BBA remaining, but it’s no longer progressing, so it’s a matter of time moving forward as will hassle it until it’s done for.

The increase in light with EI payed off with the stems to get them to grow themselves out of trouble. The lower portions that were affected have been removed and the tops replanted.

Will get the Pinnatifida back to its former glory next by adjusting the fertilisation to a leaner spec. The stems are at just the right height after a chop and replant as well so coloured up, compact and slower growth from leaner fertilisation would be ideal going forward.

Working with tap water here is either a blessing or a curse depending on what you’re trying to accomplish.

Tap parameters in ppm (based on water report averages):

NO3           23.7
PO4               1.51
K                   11.3
Mg                  8.84
Fe                    0.012

As you can see NO3 and Mg already come out at EI levels. Great for EI fertilisation.

For leaner dosing... Halving the nitrate (along with everything else) with RO/Tap 50/50 mix makes honing in on specific parameters easy. However, currently sitting on the fence about going back to RO.


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## Jayefc1 (12 Jul 2020)

Dont do it remember how it was draining the fun from the tank it's looking good  now and it will drive you nuts again lol it's been through a lot this little tank when you consider how hard it was pushed at the beginning and still is with those two onfs on it you crazy fool then going from RO to tap and biscuit gate it's amazing it's not crashed all together just testament to your green fingers and commitment that it is flourishing the way it is you know I'm right


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Jul 2020)

I suppose the other workaround @Jayefc1 is to extend out water changes to 10-12 days to steadily diminish the nitrate in the water column. It would be a cycle between every water change though and not consistent - NO3 trending downwards.

That would be a risk to try and also presumes the water report is accurate... the average is worked out from 53 samples with the range of NO3 standing at 11.5ppm lowest to 35.8ppm highest, setting an mean average of 23.7ppm. It’s also from last year which is why I hate this, “I know what’s going on” mentality... do you heck and I’m certainly not exempt.

 Dosing no NO3 over 10-12 days should at least ensure whatever is going on in the tank, the nitrate is steadily trending towards decreasing between water changes. It just seems like a lot of instability/uncertainty for the temptation of coloured up and compact growth.

You’re right though, RO ruined all the love before.

It would be far more simple to apply EI, accept different colouration, faster growth and more trimming.


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## LondonDragon (13 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Dosing no NO3 over 10-12 days should at least ensure whatever is going on in the tank, the nitrate is steadily trending towards decreasing between water changes. It just seems like a lot of instability/uncertainty for the temptation of coloured up and compact growth.


I also back out from this on my tank, but I am now considering no NO3 adition to my mix again at the next batch to see if I can get the rotala to turn red! choices choices!!


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Jul 2020)

LondonDragon said:


> but I am now considering no NO3 adition to my mix again at the next batch to see if I can get the rotala to turn red!



Freshly planted with new soil can make this difficult. It’s much easier with soil that is spent as you can rely on the water column being the controlling influence. I suppose this doesn’t entirely ring true though as managed colour up with stems using ADA Amazonia type 1 two months in with their extremely lean fertilising regime.

Tropica soil is very usable for these sort of scenarios  though as it’s nowhere near as rich as Amazonia nor has the same CEC.

Decreasing micros to the bare minimum before hitting trouble also seems to be a significant component. Relies on you keeping a very watchful eye on your setup when using higher levels of lighting and no plant cover (floaters). As @Jayefc1 pointed out it’s stupid to run two ONF’s on this setup, things can go seriously tits up in 24 hours. But, it’s nice being kept on the edge of your seat. Keeps you mindful of what you’re doing and results either way are fast, giving you quick feedback.

Your recent setup @LondonDragon should be pretty well suited to colouring up Rotala’s but softer water has made it a breeze from experience. Darrel / @dw1305 gave a really useful explanation about how Rotala’s restrict nutrient uptake (I believe it was restricting high iron levels in soil) on another thread, possibly one of @JoshP12 threads.


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## JoshP12 (13 Jul 2020)

Is it this < one > ?


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## Nick72 (13 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I suppose the other workaround @Jayefc1 is to extend out water changes to 10-12 days to steadily diminish the nitrate in the water column. It would be a cycle between every water change though and not consistent - NO3 trending downwards.
> 
> That would be a risk to try and also presumes the water report is accurate... the average is worked out from 53 samples with the range of NO3 standing at 11.5ppm lowest to 35.8ppm highest, setting an mean average of 23.7ppm. It’s also from last year which is why I hate this, “I know what’s going on” mentality... do you heck and I’m certainly not exempt.
> 
> ...



That would be my worry, how far off the average value would any single water change be.  The fluctuations in NO3 not only from peak at water change leaning off over the 12 days, but also from variability in the peak via the tap water.  Is this not likely to induce further algae growth?


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## Jayefc1 (13 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It would be far more simple to apply EI, accept different colouration, faster growth and more trimming


Didnt set this little beast up for a simple life though did you could you not slowly start to stretch the water changes out say 9 days or still do the weekly water change but adding no no3 apart from what's in the tap and see what happens over the next month wouldnt that still be limiting maybe not as much as you want but would be a good starting point


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Jul 2020)

This is about as good as it got with the tap water here on this tank previously:









The major difference is the health of the lower portions of the stems and colouration.

With 120 TDS controlled water (80-90% RO / 20%-10% tap) the health of everything from root to tip was much more impressive due to improved nutrient uptake. On tap with fast growing stems like in the pictures above, the lower portions are always struggling with all other things being kept equal (photoperiod/intensity/Co2/turnover/in-tank flow).

If stretching out water changes, specifically on the tap water here (wouldn’t advise generalising) to lean out nitrate I would suspect growth would be variable, overall cleanliness would be more of an issue and a larger, more diverse clean up crew would be needed.... Or... Heigh-Ho,  Heigh-Ho, it’s back to RO we go...


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## Jayefc1 (13 Jul 2020)

Your such a perfectionist it makes me chuckle most people would be feeling a sence of achievement from the above pics lol and would actually give almost anything to have that look in there tanks lol


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## Nick72 (13 Jul 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Your such a perfectionist it makes me chuckle most people would be feeling a sence of achievement from the above pics lol and would actually give almost anything to have that look in there tanks lol



I second that.  The tank in the above pictures is fantastic.


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Jul 2020)

It depends what you’re trying to achieve I guess. Chasing new learnings rather than perfection. Don’t mind totalling a tank if it leads to some new understanding. This most recent tank is not very smart given the plant species selection for the tap water here, but given lockdown it’s made up of what was to hand.

That was the thing with the New Year, New Scape... setup. Already knew upfront it would be very successful with the species selection and the timing they were introduced. It looked so sparsely planted at startup. However, all the species in there thrive just using tap parameters and EI dosing here so the hardscape was relatively unimportant. Pretty safe bet. It’s the exception to the rule that you *have* to start with high plant mass. Just choose your plants better. It was only ever going to be a jungle and swamp the hardscape. But learned practically nothing from running that setup.

The opposite of the above is this tank currently - attempting to grow less than optimal species in uncontrolled tap water, staring at Mulder’s Chart of nutrient interaction and quickly remembering it’s all futile because a) no faith in hobby grade test kits and b) the variability of tap parameters. The TDS readings alone have ranged from 380ppm to 510ppm over the last four weeks. Who knows what’s causing that large a fluctuation of conductivity? How can you establish any relationships with all that variability without adapting and planting with very tolerant species? Rhetorical question... the only dependable option is RO dosed to spec if accuracy is what floats your boat, then you can reasonably estimate what’s working for each plant species to understand them a little better.

Long rant but in sum I find it futile trying to learn anything from this tank using tap water... That’s why:



Jayefc1 said:


> most people would be feeling a sence of achievement



and I don’t. That and I’m a miserable git 😂


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## dw1305 (13 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> The TDS readings alone have ranged from 380ppm to 510ppm over the last four weeks. Who knows what’s causing that large a fluctuation of conductivity?


It will be the relative mix of ground and surface water, and because of the time of year there may also be some input from water that has been nitrate stripped as well. 

Our tap water is always pretty similar in values because it comes from a deep limestone aquifer and isn't much influenced by rainfall etc.

cheers Darrel


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## Geoffrey Rea (21 Jul 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Dont do it remember how it was draining the fun from the tank



Bad news @Jayefc1 gone back to RO 😂

Gets worse... Even switched the 1200 over as well. Both these puppies on RO now:



Glutton for punishment mate. But on the flip side, excited to have greater certainty about input into the tanks and their parameters. Makes it easier to figure out what’s working out across time.


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## CooKieS (21 Jul 2020)

lovely!


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## Deano3 (21 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Bad news @Jayefc1 gone back to RO
> 
> Gets worse... Even switched the 1200 over as well. Both these puppies on RO now:
> 
> ...


That looks so good very relaxing, why yoi changed to ro mate ?

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Jayefc1 (21 Jul 2020)

Oh mate I knew you would as soon as you had it in your head but the 1200 too that is going to be intresting you on 1 WC per week now then can you stretch that with the RO


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Jul 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> on 1 WC per week now then can you stretch that with the RO



It’s not that bad actually @Jayefc1

150l WC on the 1200 and 50l WC on the 600 so 200 litres in total per week to change 50% on the tanks.

All the waste water from the RO process gets stored in barrels and used on the garden throughout the week so not wasting a drop of water either, at least during the growing season. Also keeping 250l of RO stored at any given time too so it’s not the rush job it was before.



CooKieS said:


> lovely!



Cheers @CooKieS getting there. Nothing pruned back in that photo as waiting it out to see what the adapted fertilisation regime and RO do in real terms. Will get the lines cleaner to make it a triangular composition. PS loving your scaping mate, absolutely superb creations.




Deano3 said:


> why yoi changed to ro mate ?



Personally found it possible to run cleaner tanks with RO compared to our tap as able to reliably fertilise with intention. Not interested in solely health, more growth speed, form and colouration. If you can’t coax plants into being what you desire can you really claim to understand those particular species?

Basically @Deano3 I like to play is the answer.


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Jul 2020)

2 months and just had a big trim:





Keep pinching Buce and moss from this tank so foreground is really bare 😂

On RO once again and rigged this tank up to the auto doser in the 1200 cabinet:





Still unsure what to stock in this tank so keeping lots of open water available. Hoping for a species that will complement the Green Neons in the 1200 (although they always scarper off when you take a photo  ) :



White Cloud Mountain Minnows are a front runner, as they’re happy to be seen out and about.


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## Conort2 (29 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> 2 months and just had a big trim:
> 
> View attachment 152605
> 
> ...





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Still unsure what to stock in this tank so keeping lots of open water available. Hoping for a species that will complement the Green Neons in the 1200 (although they always scarper off when you take a photo  ) :


i think black neons would look nice and compliment well. Or one of the newer tetras that are out now like hyphessobrycon amapaensis or hemigrammus rubriostratus. Similar enough to the neons in having that bright stripe but a completely different colour and hopefully abit bolder behaviour. green neons are known for being quite shy.

cheers

Conor


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Jul 2020)

All great suggestions @Conort2

Black neons and Pygmy Corydoras would be cool and easily sourced. Would be a nice contrast to all the colour across the scape.

Hyphessobrycon amapaensis are superb looking fish, came across them on Aquarium Glaser when trying to ID that green mystery fish, but haven’t found anywhere stocking them so far.


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## Conort2 (29 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hyphessobrycon amapaensis are superb looking fish, came across them on Aquarium Glaser when trying to ID that green mystery fish, but haven’t found anywhere stocking Hyphessobrycon amapaensis so far.


They shouldn’t be too hard to find, they’ve been available for a few years now and I believe are available tank bred now too. I recon Maidenhead aquatics should be able to get them in or they’ll definitely be available mail order through someone like pier aquatics.

cheers

Conor


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## rebel (30 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> If you can’t coax plants into being what you desire can you really claim to understand those particular species?


This my friend is the crux of the matter. Those who  master the craft can coax the plants to do what they want.


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## Melll (30 Jul 2020)

Beautiful tanks and the cupboard is so tidy


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## Andrew Butler (30 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Hoping for a species that will complement the Green Neons


Looking good. Unsure if it's been mentioned or considered but Ember Tetra are a good match in my opinion.

Unsure if I've missed it Geoff but how is the sump side of things going? What power have you got the pump on (assuming it's still the DCP-2500) how's the outlet for directing flow evenly and not blowing sand around etc?


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## mort (30 Jul 2020)

I think hyphessobrycon elachys  (reed tetra) might be a good choice. The more I read about them the more I want to keep them as they sound perfect, small, outgoing, hardy and peaceful. The big plus is if you go for the right pygmy cory they will all swim together like they do in nature which would add a different dimension to the tank and bring out the cories more.


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## Geoffrey Rea (30 Jul 2020)

Andrew Butler said:


> Unsure if I've missed it Geoff but how is the sump side of things going? What power have you got the pump on (assuming it's still the DCP-2500) how's the outlet for directing flow evenly and not blowing sand around etc?



It works. Suppose the true test is would I do anything different again and the answer is no.





Sump is currently overfilled to capacity and ATO is switched off as evaporation will be higher in this hot weather, hence the high water level so the tank can stay cooler.

The slow flow through the sump leaves all the gunk settled on the bottom left side on the base glass, so it can easily be siphoned out making maintenance simple. Can’t complain really.

The pump is running at minimum as it’s more than enough. Can turn it up to full blast without moving anything, the wide bore return is key to that. The energy efficiency at minimum is good on that pump too so lower running cost.



rebel said:


> This my friend is the crux of the matter. Those who master the craft can coax the plants to do what they want.



This is forever the endeavour.




Melll said:


> the cupboard is so tidy



Momentary cleanliness and order... will look like a war zone again soon enough 😂



mort said:


> I think hyphessobrycon elachys (reed tetra) might be a good choice. The more I read about them the more I want to keep them as they sound perfect, small, outgoing, hardy and peaceful. The big plus is if you go for the right pygmy cory they will all swim together like they do in nature which would add a different dimension to the tank and bring out the cories more.



This is a good shout. Been round the houses and the criteria in order of importance is this:

- They have to be able to deal with high light. This is a very intensely lit tank

- They have to be mid-water happy

- They have to be able to cope with traffic going by the tank

Only really considering Tetras and Cories.

Thank you for all the suggestions folks. Much appreciated 🙏🏽


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## Deano3 (30 Jul 2020)

Very tidy and plants looking super healthy and i hope to be able to coax plants into doing what i want and have the knowledge to do that one day  , hopefully with more of you help i will one day.

Looking forward to seeing what you stock mate.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Andrew Butler (31 Jul 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> It works. Suppose the true test is would I do anything different again and the answer is no.


Glad to hear it, definitely an interesting project filtration wise.


Geoffrey Rea said:


> The pump is running at minimum as it’s more than enough. Can turn it up to full blast without moving anything, the wide bore return is key to that. The energy efficiency at minimum is good on that pump too so lower running cost.


So running something like 6x total volume turnover @ 750LPH still more than enough.
You find you get evenly distributed flow with the 90 alone too? - I can only guess the answer is yes!


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 Jul 2020)

Andrew Butler said:


> Glad to hear it, definitely an interesting project filtration wise.



Works well and it’s a near silent wet/dry system. You have to open the cabinet door to hear anything.




Andrew Butler said:


> You find you get evenly distributed flow with the 90 alone too? - I can only guess the answer is yes!



The single 90 has performed just fine and even with the pump set to minimum there’s still a very large amount of turnover. Not much benefit to be had from turning it up to be honest and would just stress the plants.

The wide bore return coupled with the draw from the weir means there’s water being pulled from everywhere, including through the stems. You can watch the flow through the stems at the back so distribution is good. Scape design is also a factor as it dictates how well push and pull will work together.


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Aug 2020)

3 months:





Been away for two weeks and glad to see the auto doser has been doing it’s job. Plants still need a trim but upon returning... other than needing a glass clean, water change and a switch out of sand, happy to see it survived a period away unscathed.

New fish ended up being White Cloud Mountain Minnows:









Not the exciting choice that was in mind. However,  they’re utterly unbothered by anything the kids do which is a huge plus. Can’t be doing with any jumpers so happy days with MCMM’s.

Will get the scissors and pinsettes out later in the week.


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## Jayefc1 (22 Aug 2020)

Looks good mate defo needs a good sorting with the siccors though


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## Melll (22 Aug 2020)

Every time this thread pops up I have to smirk at the title 😏 I may grow up one day


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## hypnogogia (22 Aug 2020)

Melll said:


> I may grow up one day


Why would you do that?


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## Melll (22 Aug 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Why would you do that?



Good question 🤔 😃


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## Geoffrey Rea (23 Aug 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks good mate defo needs a good sorting with the siccors though



Will get on it this week, half of the super red has already started growing emersed so any benefit in timing is already lost.

Garden got scorched in the hot weather so needs some TLC more immediately. On the plus side came back to 30kg+ of tomatoes, hot spell had its benefits.




Melll said:


> I may grow up one day



I grew up once @Melll .... Worst two minutes of my life.


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## Melll (23 Aug 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> I grew up once @Melll .... Worst two minutes of my life.




I am so sorry to hear you went through that 😄😄

They say that growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional


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## Deano3 (23 Aug 2020)

Missed these updates looking great and sure will look even better after a good trim 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 Aug 2020)

Trimmed:






Pinnatifida is back in the light so should colour up again. Foreground needs some broken up rock to finish up and the stems making up the triangular shape should be back soon enough.

The mystery crypts poking through the hottonia palustris are optimistic under the ONF’s 😂 but we’ll see how they go.


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## Jayefc1 (28 Aug 2020)

Tanks looking great mate looks nice and crisp and clean


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 Aug 2020)

Cheers @Jayefc1 

Not to spoil the surprise but about to make the foreground entirely broken up rock. The disorder of the broken up rock should soften the weird planting arrangement. Just letting these tanks run nowadays to see what they do.

Needed the fertilisation on point to make sure that we’re not inviting problems with exposed surface area and high light. May still go awry with Co2 misting on there but what you gonna do 🤷🏻‍♂️

Nothing ventured nothing gained.


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## Jayefc1 (28 Aug 2020)

@Geoffrey Rea You know me I like a good texture forground clean sand Is nice you cant beat the messy look lol well that's what I always tell myself


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 Aug 2020)

Gravel...





The White Cloud Mountain Minnows are much more chilled out now.

Best guess is they felt too apparent against the sand.  Despite their location in the photo (they think they’re going to be fed) they move all around the scape unlike before.

As the gravel begins to discolour the hope is it will look a little more subtle. Will leave the MC and Tripartita to creep across to smooth the transition. The Buce seems to be at a turning point towards healthy new growth as well so hoping they’ll fill in nicely too.





Overall just glad to be moving away from a tank full of biscuits


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## CooKieS (31 Aug 2020)

Looking nice mate, more natural


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## Jayefc1 (31 Aug 2020)

Ah mate I much prefer that way more natural as you say when it matures Nd the plants creep will look amazing


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## Ady34 (1 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Overall just glad to be moving away from a tank full of biscuits


👏
quote of the year!
Looking great and I love the idea of the gravel/shard foreground with creeping plants. It will really blend the tank and make it more natural.


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## PARAGUAY (1 Sep 2020)

Missed a lot of this will have a look in. The substrate change looks great. I got some sparkly white sand , not advertised as such, and fish looked more at home when l went for a more "sandy" one after l changed it


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## Geoffrey Rea (1 Sep 2020)

Had all sorts of ideas when this scape started up. Actually glad biscuit-gate happened... got the ol’ noggin thinking properly about what this tank is actually about and what mattered.

This one is about the kids at it’s heart. They can have a go at trimming and if it goes off script, it grows back soon enough.

There’s also only a 6 hour photo period on this tank so wanted something reef like that would be colourful just viewed by sunlight from the kids point of view.





Here’s what the tank looks like lit by daylight from my youngest lads height:





Like most four year olds it’s the surface rippling and reflecting that catches his gaze. That and getting lifts off dad for aerial viewing:





When I was a lad the tanks were something you left alone lest you want an earful and telling off. It’s a bit ironic that a generation on the endeavour is to get them involved, curious and asking questions.

So yeah... biscuits happen occasionally. Along with Lego sprayed everywhere and enough hotwheels cars to make it look like a container ship has sank carrying a massive car shipment 

But will forever enjoy what this tank does for the young minds in the house rather than anything it is. For everything else, there’s the 1200.


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## Deano3 (1 Sep 2020)

Looks great Geoffrey really like the foregeound and i am going to start getting my 7 year old son involved a bit once the 900 set up and like you say maybe abit trimmimg etc but bet the kids love the 600 great colours and planting and fish choice. 

Very lucky kids to see them aquariums wish i had some to look at when i was a kid 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Ady34 (3 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Had all sorts of ideas when this scape started up. Actually glad biscuit-gate happened... got the ol’ noggin thinking properly about what this tank is actually about and what mattered.
> 
> This one is about the kids at it’s heart. They can have a go at trimming and if it goes off script, it grows back soon enough.
> 
> ...


Great philosophy and story with the tank. Really great to involve the family but it must help knowing that you have everything in place to allow the plants to grow back in again.......like a haircut, only a few weeks between a good one and a bad one


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## Geoffrey Rea (3 Sep 2020)

Deano3 said:


> i am going to start getting my 7 year old son involved a bit once the 900 set up and like you say maybe abit trimmimg



You can’t really lose @Deano3 and you never know what it might lead to down the line. Seven year old version of me wanted to know how a siphon worked watching the ‘ol man cleaning his tank, this then led to a question about how trees get water up so high. Then got an explanation about transpiration and negative pressure. This then led to questions about what atmospheric pressure is. This then led to questions about weather prediction.... All from watching my dad siphoning a tank and him being willing to share his down time.

Point is involving your kids with this hobby and listening to their questions is priceless. Maybe this will be your sons thing, maybe not but it’s worth a spin.




Ady34 said:


> it must help knowing that you have everything in place to allow the plants to grow back in again.......like a haircut, only a few weeks between a good one and a bad one



In the beginning it went wrong more often than it went right 😂 You can bet your bottom dollar on that one.

There was one night @Ady34  I privately got all miffed because my eldest ignored all instruction, razed the background stems to the ground and diced the tops so fine it looked like finely chopped parsley. (The ‘blitz’ pre-dates ‘buiscuit-gate’)

Later on I randomly burst out laughing at the idea that an adult could get all bent out of shape because his plant is the wrong height 😂 Who’s the kid and who’s the adult here...

Learned to chill out and plan ahead now. It’s why the plant species are duplicated across both tanks, can replace from one another and it’s always recoverable. Glad to say it’s not really needed nowadays.


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## Melll (3 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Point is involving your kids with this hobby and listening to their questions is priceless


 
Absolutely   if our young ones want to be involved in any hobby, that is good, sometimes they can teach us so called adults a thing or two as well 

My Grand Daughter last year told me that I needed to put stuff "up high" in the tank as she is little compared to me, looking up to the water surface there was nothing there to see.   I now sit on a stool and stand up close to the tank as well as sit and stand as far from the tank that I can get to get the different perspectives.


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## Geoffrey Rea (11 Sep 2020)

By far and away the least bothered fish this house has ever seen. Unphased by anything:








Hitting the curve...


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## Wookii (11 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> By far and away the least bothered fish this house has ever seen. Unphased by anything:
> 
> View attachment 153965
> View attachment 153967
> ...



They look really pretty little fish - how many do you have in there?


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Sep 2020)

Wookii said:


> They look really pretty little fish - how many do you have in there?



There’s thirty White Cloud Mountain Minnows in total. Not very elegant schoolers but their colouring is pretty smart looking.


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## Siege (12 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> You can’t really lose @Deano3 and you never know what it might lead to down the line. Seven year old version of me wanted to know how a siphon worked watching the ‘ol man cleaning his tank, this then led to a question about how trees get water up so high. Then got an explanation about transpiration and negative pressure. This then led to questions about what atmospheric pressure is. This then led to questions about weather prediction.... All from watching my dad siphoning a tank and him being willing to share his down time.



@Geoffrey Rea I’ve met your dad, i can imagine the A level knowledge being drilled into knee high Geoffers..

In contrast I had a relatively normal childhood - 

 ‘where‘s Dad?......’Down the pub’!,,,,,   😂😂😂😂😂😂


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## Geoffrey Rea (12 Sep 2020)

Siege said:


> @Geoffrey Rea I’ve met your dad, i can imagine the A level knowledge being drilled into knee high Geoffers..
> 
> In contrast I had a relatively normal childhood -
> 
> ‘where‘s Dad?......’Down the pub’!



Well @Siege  you shouldn’t be imagining my father drilling anything quite frankly 😂


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Sep 2020)

A wee trim...


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## LondonDragon (20 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> A wee trim...


More like a rescape!!!!


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## Deano3 (20 Sep 2020)

looking forward update  

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Sep 2020)

The unglamorous end of the hobby...






Have become quite fond of the White Cloud Mountain Minnows and they seem far more chilled out at lower lighting. Not something I could really cater to with the current planting:





Find it impossible to watch the fishes behaviour without being painfully aware it could be more relaxed.

Decided to keep the scape, but go entirely Asian with the planting, with the only exception being Vesicularia dubyana Christmas moss. The Cryptocoryne varieties, Schismatoglottis and Bucephalandra are obviously fine with low light, leaving Tripartita and Pinnatifida as the wild cards.





Used the opportunity to stuff a bunch of ADA long bottom root tabs in to give the substrate a bump too.

Plants are in and the fish returned but the manzanita is still soaking in a bucket for now. Will add the wood and attach moss to finish up later this week.


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Sep 2020)

Before:





Plants out:





Plants in:





Moss in, wood in. Piece on the left keeps thinking it’s still a floater so few rocks holding it down still:





Tank should be relatively maintenance free and slow growing. Lights turned all the way down to 5% on both ONF Flat One’s. No idea what the PAR is at substrate now, hopefully low enough without causing trouble. If it is can drop down to one light unit. Co2 adjusted to match and still running a six hour photoperiod to seven hours of Co2 input offset by four hours.

A lot of root tabs in this time, will continue running a lean water column though relying on tap water for nitrate and magnesium declining, the rest of the parameters aiming for mid-lean input the same as the 1200. Water changes will be 50-60% every fifth day for two months until the crypts are well established.

Bit of variation between the tanks now:


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## Wookii (22 Sep 2020)

I like that a lot Geoff, it looks a lot more natural! How have the fish responded?


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Sep 2020)

WCMM are much more chilled out @Wookii so seems to have done the trick having a lower light tank. Wasn’t sure what their original habitat in Baiyun Mountain was like as its all but been destroyed.

Can find very little info about the region. Just gone with ‘Asian’ planting although geographically these plants are from all over the place making it meaningless.

The bit I forgot to mention is pulled out some CPD’s from the summer tub against all odds so they’re in here too.


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## CooKieS (22 Sep 2020)

I like the new scape mate, very cool!


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## Tim Harrison (22 Sep 2020)

Very nice Geoff 👍
What sand/gravel have you used ?


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Sep 2020)

Thanks folks, it’s still in its emersed/dragged through a hedge backwards state you get at startup, but hopefully should grow out good. 




Tim Harrison said:


> What sand/gravel have you used ?



A bag of pea gravel found in the shed (no idea where it’s from as it was out of the original packaging) and some Hugo Kamashi ‘natural’ fine gravel Tim.


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## Wookii (25 Sep 2020)

Hey Geoff, a quick question on the Aqualifter pump you use on your overflow box. Does that run constantly to ensure maintenance of the syphon, or do you just run it when you need to start the syphon?

Do you think it would be suitable for pumping 20 litres per day from a storage container at floor level up into the aquarium?


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## Geoffrey Rea (25 Sep 2020)

Morning @Wookii




Wookii said:


> a quick question on the Aqualifter pump you use on your overflow box. Does that run constantly to ensure maintenance of the syphon, or do you just run it when you need to start the syphon?



It’s on constantly. Reason being that in the event of a power cut, it restarts the syphon again. It would be a single point of failure, but the design of the sump and water level it contains allows only just enough water to enter the display to reach maximum before the return pump runs dry, circumventing a flood scenario and very angry wife.

The return pump senses when it’s running dry and cuts off for ten minutes and tries again. At worst, say if you’re on holiday for example, this cycle would continue until the pump went bust which would take a while thanks to the dry running cut off feature. However, over a long enough timeline, the probability of failure would become 100%.

So yeah, aqualifter pump on always unless you like playing dice with an over the top overflow system.




Wookii said:


> Do you think it would be suitable for pumping 20 litres per day from a storage container at floor level up into the aquarium?



Aqualifter would be a painfully slow option, it pumps a measly 22 litres per hour.

This is an option worth considering, it’s the pump I’ve used for years for pumping in jerry cans of RO to the tank so can vouch for it:

https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/aqua-marin-water-change-pump

Hope that helps. Any other questions just shoot.

G


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## Wookii (25 Sep 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Aqualifter would be a painfully slow option, it pumps a measly 22 litres per hour.
> 
> This is an option worth considering, it’s the pump I’ve used for years for pumping in jerry cans of RO to the tank so can vouch for it:
> 
> ...



Thanks mate for that. The slow pumping rate is fine to be honest, as the waste water will overflow from the main tank through a 22mm overflow pipe in the tank wall, so I can't have anything that dumps the water in too quickly or it may risk overfilling the tank. I'm using a solenoid and gravity currently from a raised header tank, and that takes about an hour through 6mm tubing - but I want to get rid of the header tank and put it on the floor.

My other concern is using a pump that doesn't mind running dry, in the event the container is empty before the pump switches off - which I assume the Aqualifters are fine with, as they can do air or water, is that right?


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## Geoffrey Rea (25 Sep 2020)

Wookii said:


> Thanks mate for that. The slow pumping rate is fine to be honest, as the waste water will overflow from the main tank through a 22mm overflow pipe in the tank wall, so I can't have anything that dumps the water in too quickly or it may risk overfilling the tank. I'm using a solenoid and gravity currently from a raised header tank, and that takes about an hour through 6mm tubing - but I want to get rid of the header tank and put it on the floor.


 
Should fit the bill then 



Wookii said:


> My other concern is using a pump that doesn't mind running dry, in the event the container is empty before the pump switches off - which I assume the Aqualifters are fine with, as they can do air or water, is that right?



It certainly will cope running dry and gurgles when the water runs out so will alert you.


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## Geoffrey Rea (10 Oct 2020)

Three weeks:





Still a proper snooze fest as you would expect from the planting.





Crypts are growing albeit extremely slowly. Not too much of a problem though as in the last three weeks this tank has required nothing other than water changes. Even the glass has remained clean so can’t complain. Any algae on the rocks from the previous scape is slowly and steadily receding without intervention.





Moss and Pinnatifida could do with more light but at this stage they’ll have to tough it out until everything else is established.

Was worth the switch though as the White Clouds are far more relaxed and a pleasure to watch under more subdued lighting. This iPhone makes this scape appear very bright, which it is not. The ONF’s are both set to 5% intensity.

Never really gone all out with crypts but imagining it will be interesting enough in due course.


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## Wookii (11 Nov 2020)

@Geoffrey Rea - what happened to your "New Decade, New Decadance" thread - I can't seem to find it anywhere?


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## castle (11 Nov 2020)

To me, this tank looks excellent.


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Nov 2020)

Wookii said:


> @Geoffrey Rea - what happened to your "New Decade, New Decadance" thread - I can't seem to find it anywhere?




Haven’t you heard @Wookii ? According to a crack team on here clean tanks put together by committed aquascaper’s don’t exist.

Must have gone ‘poof’ mate because it wasn’t real 😂


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## Wookii (13 Nov 2020)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Haven’t you heard @Wookii ? According to a crack team on here clean tanks put together by committed aquascaper’s don’t exist.
> 
> Must have gone ‘poof’ mate because it wasn’t real 😂



Lol well it must be real I saw the photos - I can see it through the tank in this journal in the image above! Either that or you are an absolute photoshop genius . . . in which case you have a promising ADA competition career ahead of you! 😆


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## Geoffrey Rea (13 Nov 2020)

Wookii said:


> Lol well it must be real I saw the photos - I can see it through the tank in this journal in the image above!



Nope, nope... The secret society of the Aquascaping Bureau of Ballsy Adjustments (ABBA for short) train their students well. What you see through the glass in that there image is actually a ham sandwich that has been doctored to look like an aquascaper 1200. Mad skills mate.

However, I’m a budget aquascaper, can’t afford the premium photoshop subscription so it’s all done on an old 486 computer using Microsoft Paint for free.


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## Steve Buce (15 Nov 2020)

Like the change, great looking tank


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## Geoffrey Rea (15 Nov 2020)

Cheers @Steve Buce

It’s being used as a propagation tank for all sorts lately so it just needs to get on with itself. Does that admirably with no real maintenance so good tank in that respect.

Mainly growing out mosses and liverworts at the mo. Everything permanently planted in there is low light loving so doesn’t mind being shaded if you float some stems etc... Really handy having a tank you can just chuck spare plants in. However, today it’s actually clear:






The crypts are all trucking along, albeit slowly. Another batch of Christmas moss to move on soon.


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## Jayefc1 (15 Nov 2020)

Where is the 1200 though can't find the thread either what you playing at


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## Geoffrey Rea (15 Nov 2020)

Jeez... Now I know how Bane felt when Batman started asking questions 😂 😂 😂


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## Jayefc1 (15 Nov 2020)

Answer the question or the plants get it


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## Jayefc1 (15 Nov 2020)

I know your up to something


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## Geoffrey Rea (22 Dec 2020)

3 months:





Crypts are all on their way now. Tank may not be beautiful but it’s certainly bomb proof, really do love this setup solely for that reason, dependable.

Have been propagating all sorts in here, brutally tearing out Pinnatifida and moss for other tanks, just doing weekly WC’s and nothing else.... the thing just keeps on trucking and stays clean, even the glass doesn’t need wiping. Most importantly the White Cloud Mountain Minnows are  finally happy with this arrangement so it’s fair to say this one is a keeper for the foreseeable.

One mishap, auto doser has been turned off to this tank for probably over a week before it finally got noticed today. Went under the radar because the 1200 has been receiving all the attention after the rescape. Very limited damage quite frankly:













Will give it a full week of dosing before looking for any leaves beyond help.


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Jan 2021)

4 months:













Will tie fissidens fontanus moss to the wood this week and give this tank some TLC. The family are still loving the white clouds and have the youngest feeding them now, nothing he does phases them so great fish with kids running about.

Put some fresh sand in and stripped out the Java moss on water change today. There’s a small trident fern poked in the rock in the middle right that should fill in nicely.

Tank has received little to no attention due to the 1200, pretty sure the Co2 needs reconsidering which can be checked out this week. It’s nice to have a setup that just gets on with itself once in a while. Have dropped the micros to a minimum and the macros are potassium phosphate backed up with a little potassium sulphate. Rest is reliant on the tap parameters and substrate.


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## LondonDragon (20 Feb 2021)

Need to get some more crypts for mine, liking the look of them in this scape!! lovely tank as always Geoff


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## Geoffrey Rea (11 Mar 2021)

Five (and a bit) months:





Moss was irritating so pulled out wholesale, will remove the remainder then pop some small leaf anubias in the foreground at some point. Manzanita didn’t really add anything so also removed most of it and scrapped the fissidens plan. Trident also pulled out as had a chunk of anubias that needed a home.

Limnophila sessiliflora being worked in along the background for contrast and a growth happy weed. White Clouds still happy with this arrangement and maintenance is as low as it will ever be.

Given the wet/dry sump arrangement, now considering letting either the frogbit or another floater cover the surface and removing the Co2 entirely. It’s been a while since there’s been a low tech tank in the house so would make a nice change.


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Mar 2021)

Six months:





The three UG portions from the 45F have survived a few weeks in the bottom right corner. Going to take a punt with planting out the sand area and seeing how it goes in hard tap water. Should be delivered this week so will be interesting to see.


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 Apr 2021)

Seven months:





Utricularia graminifolia growing steadily in the hard water and under EI dosing.


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## Geoffrey Rea (9 Jun 2021)

Rescape time...





AS1200 has been left to get plenty overgrown so will be poaching some stems from there. A visit to Aquarium Gardens for the rest of the species.

Having a go at something Dutch this time around. Fancy trying something purely about plants, form and composition. A bit silly given the heaps of hardscape in the garage but hey ho 🤷🏻‍♂️

ADA Amazonia, two ONF Flat One’s, wet/dry sump, 6kg of Co2 at the ready and the White Cloud Mountain Minnows comfortable in their temporary Dennerle 70l tank.

Will get some hardscape put in for the WCMM today. The Seachem Tidal 75 is quite frankly brilliant. Picked one up because others said it was a great hang on back and not disappointed.





The other half is not pleased to see the Big Blue Barrel again though 😂 A bit confused as I said the 600 is coming down. Then another tank appears. Then the BBB. Got a bit lost in translation. She thought I meant get rid of the setup, probably been looking for a nice piece of furniture to go in that spot... then the penny drops that it’s a rescape. Life is full of disappointments I guess.

Beers in the fridge and get the tunes on tonight then away we go 🍻

Started a new journal called Dutch Donut as this one is getting a bit long winded.


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