# Tom's Mini M



## Tom (19 Jan 2011)

A couple of people have asked about a journal for this, so I thought I'd start one. I've had it for months now, and not been able to plant it up because the other tank has all the equipment on it. I'll be moving the FE CO2, UP Reg, Eheim 2036 and glassware over when that's done. For now, it's looking like a dry start, which I've not done before. 

Plants will likely be Spiky moss, HC, Glosso, E. parvula, Crypt parva and maybe some H. micranthemoides that I have emersed at the moment. 

This time I would like to try an in-line diffuser or reactor on the Eheim (9mm/12mm hoses I think). I haven't really been able to get effective diffusion from the ceramic diffuser in the 10 liter straight into the inlet, and still have BBA with 1.5 bps. If you have any suggestions (even DIY), just shout 

Lighting is going to be 18w, which is less than the 24w I used on my last few successful tanks of this size. I'm scared of lights these days! It's a bit too pinky for my liking, so I may change it at some point. It's quite an old bulb too, as these things go. 

Anyway, here's what I got from TGM on an epic 500 mile round trip. In one day. In a car with dodgy injectors that had to be kept at 2500rpm+ or it would stall.   






And the layout so far. I haven't used wood in ages, so I thought I'd try some nice branchy pieces I've had for a while and never really used. The stones are from the river in Langollen on my TGM trip. Substrates are ADA Amazonia Powder, ADA Power Sand L (small portion, was cheaper and I'm skeptical!), ADA Forest Sand Branco.





I filled it a couple of inches this morning to prepare for the dry start. At the moment I only have the Spiky moss and micranthemoides to use, but as of the beginning of Feb I hope to have the rest. I was going to use Tropica from TGM, but now I'll be using theplanttank.co.uk and plantedtanks.co.uk based on good reviews and prices. 





And all that's taken several months so far.... 

Tom


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## JEK (19 Jan 2011)

Looks good, Tom. I love the Mini M system.  What lightning will you use?


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## Tom (19 Jan 2011)

It's an 18w compact T5


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## Tom (19 Jan 2011)

Just put a few plants in for test. Here's how they've been for the last couple of months. 




In the tank (not final positions, just a test to see if they dry out or not!!)








Tom


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## JEK (19 Jan 2011)

The rocks look really great on your last pic.   Looking forward to see a full shot of the scape!


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## Tom (19 Jan 2011)

Thanks Johan 

Right, I've gone and done it - I've ordered the plants early! Can't be doing with this waiting thing. They should be here early-mid next week at a guess. Some may come Friday, I don't know. 
I got:
3x Hemianthus callitrichoides
2x Glossostigma elatinoides
3x Echinodorus tenellus (swapped the hairgrass at the last minute! I hope it pays off) 
1x Cryptocoryne parva
1x Eleocharis parvula

And all for £26 posted from theplanttank.co.uk and plantedtanks.co.uk! Can't be bad at all, just hope they're decent.     

Tom


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## nayr88 (19 Jan 2011)

You done it!!! Nice one haha

Plant list looks good mate, and so does the kit. I'm sure yourll do it justice.

Can't wait for the plants to arrive and to see more pics.


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## George Farmer (19 Jan 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> And all for £26 posted from theplanttank.co.uk and plantedtanks.co.uk! Can't be bad at all, just hope they're decent.


Good stuff mate.  Let us know how you get on, please.  

I'm sure many of us would be interested in a reliable source of inexpensive plants!


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## Tom (19 Jan 2011)

Yep I'll get some pics of the plants when they turn up. The HC is coming with plantedtanks.co.uk and the rest with theplanttank.co.uk. I think I'm getting my excitement and enthusiasm back for aquascaping. It's taken a while.


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

Look what I found    I now I've just bought some already and they should be here tomorrow, but I couldn't resist some Tropica HC 

[EDIT] I've used waaay less HC than I thought I was going to need! I could have 3 or 4 spare pots by the time I'm done!!!


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

Moss not yet in final positions, I've just dropped it in for now. It won't be along the top of the branch when I do it properly. Good news is that nothing's dried up yet, which was my fear of dry-starts! I flooded the tank for a day as George suggessted, and dropped the level back down for planting the HC I got today. The stones at the back left will be moved either later today or tomorrow when some more plants come, as I have a more strategic position for them. Then HC/Glosso/patchy Hairgrass will cover the whole back left area.

I might also raise the substrate level at the back


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## JEK (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Looks very good, Tom.    The broken branch on the wood, in the centre of the tank, is IMO, a bit overpowering, but that will probably not be visible, once the plants have grown in...


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

You might be right there. I could always saw it off and cover that bit in moss. It's right in the middle too isn't it.


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## andyh (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

hey tom

Looking good, what stone is that?

Andy


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Hi Andy, it's just stone I picked up in the river in Langollen near TGM  I got several different sizes, all of the same colour/type, and scooped a bit of gravel too. I like the way it looks - I wasn't sure how it was going to work at first.


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## nayr88 (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Looks fresh !! 

The stone looks brilliant, I agree the 'stump' is abit strong but I'm 100percent it'll looks fine when its matured a little. What are you misting the tank with, ferts wise?

Keep the pics coming mate


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## Garuf (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

I love llagollen did you go on the train? 
Bets y coed is good for rock collecting too, especially if you follow the road through the mountains, loads of old quarries with rock kicking about. 
Scape looks great but they yours always do.


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Ryan, I'm just misting it occasionally with plain old water. Most of them will root in the Aquasoil so I'm not too worried about ferts. The moss has been growing for the last couple of months in a tuppaware pot with no ferts added whatsoever, and it's done nicely so far. 
I'm hoping that the moss will cover some of the stump to make it less "sticky-outy", and when the tenellus is in behind it should look better. If not, it might get the chop...

Nah Gareth I drove, and didn't go on the train in Llangollen. It was raining anyway, so I got my stones and some awesome fish and chips and left. I had camping gear with me for if it was good weather, and I was going to stay the night near Bets y Coed. I was looking at the river through there on Google maps before I went and it looked really interesting and followed the road. Was a shame, but I'll do it next time. Maybe in Summer.


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## George Farmer (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Really nice mate.   

Great to see you have your aquascaping mojo back!


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## Tom (20 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Thanks George. Yeah, I reckon it's back


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## flygja (21 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Maybe you can lay the stump flat or pointing towards the front then moss it up.

Welcome back!


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## Garuf (21 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

You could very easily crush that stump with some pliers or similar if you want to "soften" it without adding moss. F.fissidens would be ideal as it's a tiny moss.

Good luck with the dry roll out, I found daylight worked best, my clip on lamp didn't seem to cut it.


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## Tom (21 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

flygja - Yeah I'd have to chop it off to move it, but I think if I did chop it, I've got some more similar branchy wood I'd use instead. Thanks, it's good to be getting excited over scaping again 

Gareth - It's quite a solid stump really, I wouldn't like to try! Knowing me I'd end up making it worse. I might leave it for the time being and try to plant so it takes the emphasis off it a bit. I'm thinking about planting some Glosso either on it or right behind it and try to train it over and around that part of the branch, as well as a bit of moss. Not something I've done before with Glosso though. 

At the moment the lighting is about 16" over the lowest substrate, with a piece of frosted perspex as a lid to keep humidity up (usually used for diffused white background)


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## flygja (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

How about attaching another small piece of wood to it using cable ties? You could then moss it up and hide the joint.


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## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

Instead of the stump or as well as? I was thinking about adding a little more wood yesterday when I was rooting round in my aquatic "mini-shed."The more upright branch is only attached by a screw, so adding more is a possibility. I'm worrying about the piece on the right too, that it might not stand out enough against the main piece. When I look at the tank, I see a path winding towards the back right, around that smaller piece of wood, but I can't see it clearly in the photo. Maybe if I shoot at a wider angle it might show more.


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## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Full Shot*

I just received the HC from theplanttank.co.uk. Are they related to Maidenheads? They were sent in a Maidenheads fish bag anyway. Plants are Aquafleur, and good quality. Admittedly not Tropica, but neither are they £6 per pot. For less than half the price of Tropica, I'm pleased with them and will use theplanttank.co.uk again no doubt. 

As I also bought the Tropica pots from P@H, just got to decide what to do with them.The options are pass them on, re-plant the HC in the 10 liter "disaster tank" now I'm using non-sodium-softened water and see how it goes, or start an emersed project... Decisions decisions...

Pictures aren't great, sorry!










I'm expecting the rest of the plants (loads) to come on Thursday as they should have been ordered on Thurs just gone. Aparrently it takes a week to import, get DEFRA checked and be re-shipped. 

Tom


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## Gill (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

Loving the layout.


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## Mark Evans (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Plants are Aquafleur, and good quality. Admittedly not Tropica, but neither are they £6 per pot.



It's a myth mate. so the quality isn't as good as tropica?...who's to say there not kept as well, at there holding place/supplier. 

I've seen some dire quality tropica plants at P@H, does that mean tropica aren't very good?   

see what i mean?   

I've had aquafleur come straight from the farm, and i can assure you there equal and sometimes better than tropica   

Look forward to what your doing mate.


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## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

When I say "quality", I mean portion size isn't quite as big as I've had from Tropica, and they're just not quite as green if you know what I mean. Nope, dire plants at P@H doesn't mean Tropica are no good you're right!! Let's just say these particular Tropicas I got from P@H were a bit larger and a bit greener than these particular Aquafleurs, and put it down to handling 
And for the huge price difference I will stick with the quality of these particular Aquafleurs any day, as there's not a lot in it in terms of what you get when it arrives.

Cheers for the grilling Mark 

Thanks Gill!


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## Mark Evans (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Cheers for the grilling Mark



your welcome mate. I wasn't meant as a grilling though.   

It just gets my goat, when many folk compare without truly knowing the original quality, when there dispatched from the farm.

In terms of price, they cant be beat.


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## Tom (22 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

OK, let's compare them as retailers instead, because that's the service I see


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## Tom (24 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

Apparently the rest of the plants are now in customs. Can't fault plantedtanks.co.uk's communication and information so far. Should be here on Thursday. 

The HC is still alive which is nice, and looks like it's starting to put down some roots. Still lovely and green


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## nayr88 (24 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

Good to know the HC is going well pal, I've been blasting mine with co2 haha, not that I need to tell you but keep vigilant on any leggy rebels!! Haha


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## Tom (25 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

Well hopefully as it's still emersed I won't have too much trouble keeping it nice and flat. I am a bit worried what will happen when I fill it up though!! Will have an UP inline diffuser on it by that stage though, so hopefully I will be able to get enough CO2 in there. Might buy a second inline diffuser for the inlet tube too and split the CO2, assuming this might make it more efficient?


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## nayr88 (25 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

i forgot about you doing a dry start so yeah should be fine, will you be able to fill it though?? itd look so good with a dart frog in there. id love to see a dart frog tank/viv scaped by a aquarist. wonder if any on this site have one the dsm and ended up keeping it so and getting a frog in there?

anyways, i think with the UP deffuser you should be fine, it creats a fine mist and if flow is well the mist will be run though the filter again anyways. Just really blast it and keep on top of water changes and trimming and dont be to eager to get life in there haha.

cheers mate


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## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*



> i forgot about you doing a dry start so yeah should be fine, will you be able to fill it though?? itd look so good with a dart frog in there. id love to see a dart frog tank/viv scaped by a aquarist. wonder if any on this site have one the dsm and ended up keeping it so and getting a frog in there?



I do love dart frogs, but I will definitely fill this! Seems like it should be fine given excessive CO2 when you first fill it until the plants adapt. 



> anyways, i think with the UP deffuser you should be fine, it creats a fine mist and if flow is well the mist will be run though the filter again anyways. Just really blast it and keep on top of water changes and trimming and dont be to eager to get life in there haha.



I've never been too keep to have fish in my plant tanks surprisingly - I'm not used to having fish any more from having all these tiny setups! I used to have several fish tanks set up, but now I've only got a Rio180 and my solitary baileyi puffer. I never thought I'd see the day when I only had one fish (the Malawi's downstairs don't count!!). 

I'm already thinking of going for something boring like Hengali Rasboras or similar. Thought about Guppies (again, never thought I'd see the day) or Threadfins, but I reckon they'll look a bit big, and better in a more densely planted tank. 

I'm hoping to receive my atomizer today, but we'll see.....


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## Tom (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Rest of HC is here*

Just been having a look at the HC that's in there now, and there does seem to be some horizontal growth which is nice. There's one small patch that's gone a bit yellow, but new leaves seem to be coming through. The two pots I haven't used are also going strong. 

Just had a notification from plantedtanks.co.uk that the rest of my plants are now dispatched


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## Tom (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Plants arrived  









Overall great communication and organisation from plantedtanks.co.uk. The Glosso isn't great - quite yellow and squashed, so only used about 1/4 of what arrived. Tenellus was good, as was the Hairgrass. Crypts were nice, but not much in the way of roots. Looks like they've been chopped out from where they were grown, but hopefully will shoot some more growth down soon enough. Overall, good value for money definitely. I would recommend and use both companies again, with the Aquafleur from theplanttank.co.uk being best on quality, portion size and delivery times. 

Planted - Not a great shot. Handheld@ISO 800





Getting there....
Tom


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## ghostsword (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

I like Planted Tank, cheap plants, but the issue has always been the same, some plants look just like cuttings. 


They do take over quickly, and are strong plants. And cheap!


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## JEK (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Looking good, Tom.


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## Mark Evans (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

i gotta say, i think that looks brilliant!


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## Tom (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Thanks Mark and Johan  Mark I'm gonna be following your 60cm closely too   Gotta love a bit of moss, eh. I've always wanted to try Bolbitis too, but never had the space in these small tanks. Can wait to fill this up now, but I want to give it at least a month to get going. Patience!    

I've had a nice email from Planted Tanks this evening and might have some more Glosso in the post which is very good of them  

The HC is starting to take off, which has surprised me with it's speed in a dry start. I'll have a strong carpet in 10 days at this rate, so will start trimming the old stuff back soon. There's some nice, small compact leaves appearing. 

Tom


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## nayr88 (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Looking tip top broseph, 

I love seeing the start of a new journal (sure I said that to you at the start of 10L ) especially one as well planed as this. Keep the photographs coming mate.

Ryan


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## ghostsword (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

One critique, siphon the gravel at the front and add sand! As the tank is small, with the sand it would look even better.


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## Tom (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Thanks Luis. I was going to get Bright Sand or Nile Sand, but I love the look of the Forest Sand. The black bits in it are just bits of Aquasoil that have floated away. I can see what you mean, and I'll see how it goes. I do like the Forest Sand but it may be cause to try out some finer stuff. Either that, or it could be graded like it was in the 10 liter. I've got loads of it spare anyway.

Tom


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## Tom (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Just thought I'd put up a pic of the HC that's now finding it's feet. Most of it is the Pets@Home Tropica.


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## viktorlantos (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Looks very good Tom  And i do not have a problem with the gravel. Sand would work too, but this looks nice also.


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## Tom (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Thank you Viktor


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## Nelson (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

love this mate.can't wait till you flood it   .


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## Tom (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Neither can I! But now I've replanted the HC and hairgrass in the 10 liter, I have no spare filter/CO2. Could always swap that to emersed when I need the equipment I suppose. Might be a plan actually. Sorry, thinking out loud again!


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## Tom (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

A clearer picture with cleaner glass!


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## JEK (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Looks good, the chunk in the middle is'nt so noticable anymore, now that it's planted. Are you going to fill it up soon?


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## Tom (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Probably not  It's gonna be at least a month I reckon. I want to make sure everything is rooted nicely, and I should be getting some more Glosso next week. I quite fancy the look of Staurogyne too, it might work well just in front of the main "log" behind the glosso, but I don't want to make it too cluttered or complicated-looking. Could also work in the mid-right and mid-left, if that makes sense. I'm quite tempted to fill it in a week or so just to get an idea how it will look, then drain it back down again. 

Tom


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## JEK (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

I also think Staurogyne would look good in front of the wood, but the question is if it will grow too high...


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## Antoni (29 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Lovely litle tank! Cant wait to see it developed and mature!

Regards


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## nayr88 (30 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*

Daaaamn! Looks so good tom. Gotta be happy with that aye mate.

For a second I imagine to was a 4foot tank and 2foot tall, with the front flooded bit be deep enough for a betta or dwarf cichlid, and it started to get freak me out abit haha.

Anyway enough of that crazy talk.

Well done pal.


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## Tom (30 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Fully Planted*



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> I also think Staurogyne would look good in front of the wood, but the question is if it will grow too high...



I'm not sure. I don't think so, but then I've not kept it (successfully). Might have to get a small portion and see. If not, those were the areas I was going to have the Glosso, and hopefully let it grow a bit higher if it will. 



			
				Antoni Dimitrov said:
			
		

> Lovely litle tank! Cant wait to see it developed and mature!
> 
> Regards



Thanks Antoni   



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Daaaamn! Looks so good tom. Gotta be happy with that aye mate.
> 
> For a second I imagine to was a 4foot tank and 2foot tall, with the front flooded bit be deep enough for a betta or dwarf cichlid, and it started to get freak me out abit haha.
> 
> ...



Ryan, ya drunk?


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## Tom (30 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth*

Sorry, but I'm excited about this. Just noticed new growth on the tenellus, hairgrass, and even the Crypts and Glosso that thought would take some more time.     Honestly more growth in this since planting on Thursday than I've had in the nightmare 10l in months. Not even joking, it's quite sad!











Tom


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## nayr88 (30 Jan 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 30/01*

Congrats mate, its doing well. I've been doing some googling on DSM, I'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the inspiration.

Yes, the drink got the better of me. Whoops. Haha


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## Tom (31 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 30/01*



> Congrats mate, its doing well. I've been doing some googling on DSM, I'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the inspiration.



Cheers  It's seeming like a really easy way to get started so far, you should go for it!

Glosso is definitely growing... upwards! Not too bad for the first 3 days though. Shall I just chop off the new growth and replant to try and get it to go sideways?









Tom


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## LondonDragon (31 Jan 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Looking good Tom, chop the glosso and replant, leave at least two leaves on the runner


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## Tom (3 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Cheers Paulo, have done  Some of it is still going up, but some is now horizontal 

Just a couple of overhead shots...


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## LondonDragon (3 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Cheers Paulo, have done  Some of it is still going up, but some is now horizontal


Just keep doing it and eventually all will be growing horizontal 

Looking good


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## JenCliBee (3 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Looking superb mate, looking forward to seeing it a bit more matured. Excellent job


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## Tom (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Cheers  
Not much to report, but my camera's back from Canon so I've been playing with the 24-70  I keep being tempted to fill it up for a minute or two to see how it would look. Surely it can't hurt, right? 
There's some leaves going yellow and quite a bit of Crypt melt, but there are more leaves coming through in most cases








Tom


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## George Farmer (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Looks great, Tom!

I don't think flooding it will hurt and you'll get a better idea about the composition too.

Or you could tread the 'delayed gratification path' and wait it out...

Are you spraying with a nutrient-rich solution?  Rainwater?  Tapwater?


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## Tom (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

I can just see things floating up and away when I fill it, so I might wait for now! Or at lease not go past the substrate level. That might be an idea, then it makes sure it's all still moist enough. 

I was using just tapwater in a plant sprayer and spraying a couple of times a day, but I poured some TPN+ in there too as I have been trying some HC emersed in inert sand to see the difference in growth (I'm struggling with it!) and using the same bottle for spraying. 

Tom


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## chump54 (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

that's looking brilliant... I like the sand, rock, hc and wood transition. very nice.

Chris


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## George Farmer (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

I'd consider rainwater and TPN+.

When your tapwater dries does it leave a residue of deposits on the leaves?


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## Tom (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

This is a good point George, I hadn't thought of that. I'll switch over now as the bottle's just run out. I haven't noticed any deposits, but it makes sense. Ta

Cheers Chump


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## Tom (9 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

New Crypt leaf  Easily pleased


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## Tom (10 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Just removed quite a lot of the old tenellus, but there's still the odd leaf left! It's doing pretty well in the centre section, but this corner is struggling a bit


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## Tom (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - yet more shots of growth 11/02*

I've just replaced the frosted perspex lid with some glass that I fairly unsuccessfully cut to size! It lets a lot more light through obviously, particularly in the corners. The perspex was bending under the light too, so it wasn't as humid as I would have liked. The glass now fits flat to the top of the tank. I'm thinking that might be some of the reason for losing some of the tenellus, that it wasn't humid enough. 

More pics anyway!!







The spiky moss is starting to take shape even if it won't attach!! 




Here's the test of the HC growing in inert substrate with just TPN+ sprayed on daily. Just getting going after a week, it is a lot slower than that in the aquasoil. 




Tom


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## JEK (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Time to fill it up soon?


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## Tom (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

I'm not sure, because the Crypts don't seem to be rooting which is a right pain. I'm also getting a lot of the old tenellus growth dying off, so I'd like to leave it a while longer for it to sort it's life out. There are a lot of new leaves coming through, but I want a bit more that that before it's filled. 

Filling would also mean the end of the 10 liter due to lack of equipment, and I'm determined not to give up on that! It's been limping along so long, and now things are looking up it's a shame to stop it before it's done! I reckon give it a month or 5 weeks. It's only been 3 so far

Tom


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## JEK (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 31/01*

Good luck with the crypts and tennelus.


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## StevenA (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 11/02*

Looking very good Tom, you've definately got more patience than me mate    I'd have had it filled a while ago and then probably regretted it


----------



## nayr88 (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 11/02*

Nice one tom, any chance you could do a side by side of a specific area when planted to now? Would be cool to see how far its come, having a little side by side action would show good detail  

If you can hold out at least give it another 3 or 4weeks.....I just wouldn't be able to personally. Or I'd try and keep both running emptying my wallet further haha.

Cheers mate, good detail pictures too .


----------



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 11/02*

just read the whole thread, and you have some really good growth, and the scape looks awesome! Really impressed with the HC.


----------



## Tom (12 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Shots of new growth 11/02*



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Nice one tom, any chance you could do a side by side of a specific area when planted to now? Would be cool to see how far its come, having a little side by side action would show good detail



I haven't got of the exact same area with different growth, but this is the best I've got. It's the same area, just a different shot. It's not straight after planting either, so they're not too far apart time-wise. 









			
				Tourney said:
			
		

> Looking very good Tom, you've definately got more patience than me mate    I'd have had it filled a while ago and then probably regretted it



Yeah I'm determined to make it work! The last time I set up an ADA system I completely messed it up and wasted a a good £300 on stuff!! That's why I was out of the hobby for 18 months or so. This time it will work!!   



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> Good luck with the crypts and tennelus.


Cheers, I'm sure they'll be fine. The new growth is looking promising, it's just the Crypts aren't rooting very well yet. The roots had been chopped by the seller and were bunched, rather than potted. The old stuff has rotted away, so hopefully they'll throw down some new roots soon. 



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> just read the whole thread, and you have some really good growth, and the scape looks awesome! Really impressed with the HC.


It's the first time HC has worked for me - The aquasoil is working wonders so far, compared to the inert gravel I'm also trying. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (15 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

I've just noticed a couple of the tenellus leaves are looking less than healthy. Just on the right hand side, which is interesting as it's where I've lost the most of the plant. Can anyone point out what it might be, and what I can do about it?


----------



## Garuf (15 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

It could well be that you don't have the "right" humidity, not all of the plants we grow like 100% humidity.


----------



## Tom (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

Could well be I suppose. I just sat on my glass lid and smashed it, so I now have the bent piece of perspex so we'll see what happens now there's gaps!
The other suggestion I had on thebarrreport was that the ferts spray might be burning the leaf. Is this a possibility?


----------



## Tom (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

Just filled it for 5 minutes or so. Looks much better underwater


----------



## Antoni (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

ITs looking nice!

In my opinion could be a damage from the sprayed ferts, I do this in my wabi kusa and one of the ferns has a dificult time... 

So I presume this might be the case!

Regards


----------



## Tom (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

Thanks Antoni. I'm going to hold back on my fert spraying to try it out, as well as dilute the mixture much more and see how we go. The Aquasoil is obviously full of nutrients anyway.


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

I've added some of what I think what might be Lilaeopsis in where the tenellus has suffered with the transition. The new plants are emersed grown and in Tropica/AF size portions, so it's filled the gaps nicely and should be quicker to get going with any luck. £2.45 a pot at the LFS isn't bad either for what it is. 
I've still got some more Glosso coming from Plantedtanks too, which should cover the remaining gaps. 











Tom


----------



## John Starkey (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - 15/02 Tenellus deficiency help!?*

Looking nice tom   ,

regards,
john.


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

Thanks John


----------



## JEK (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

Looks really good. Any thoughts on fish species?


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

I have been thinking about something like Glolight or Xray Tetras. Something nice looking but not too bold and colourful. Then a couple of Ottos and some Amano Shrimp. I've never tried Amanos before, always had Cherries.

Have you got any suggestions? It's quite a novelty thinking about fish, I haven't bought any for myself in years!


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Feb 2011)

I've got about 4 Xrays in my 60. There really nice mate. 

The tank is going to look insane mate!


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

Thanks Mark. I just saw some Xrays being added to my LFS's tanks this morning and they looked really nice. They were only small though - the larger ones they had would be a bit too big, but if I could get hold of some smaller ones they should be great in there. 

Just thought I'd add some pics of the micranthemoides growing emersed. It's doing really well. All I did was layed it on the substrate and it's rooted and straightened out well.  





Cropped in:




Tom


----------



## Dan Crawford (18 Feb 2011)

That is gonna look super swish Tom, cracking stuff!

As for fish, have you thought about just rocking up to a good LFS and getting what you like the look of? It's so hard to think of what fish suit the scape without seeing them. You see the scape all the time so your mind knows what it looks like. Take your mind to the fish and see what it wants?....

Celestial Pearl Danios would work well though, I got 6 for £1.50 each the other day and they are awesome!


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

That's a good idea Dan. Just see what they have in at the time. I can probably request some too at the local if I knew what I wanted. 

I've never been sure about those Danios. There was the massive craze for them when they were first imported, but whenever I see them they tend to look deformed. Mainly spine problems. They're great looking fish if you can find nice ones, but I think I'm gonna aim for something a bit more plain this time round. I've always fancied a good shoal of glass cats too, but I see them in a larger and heavier planted tank with bolbitis and mosses! Maybe that's next time...


----------



## nry (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

All these far too good looking 'scapes are making me want to re-do my own...even though as usual it still isn't 'finished' 

Looking lovely, once filled it should look even better!


----------



## Dan Crawford (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> I've always fancied a good shoal of glass cats too, but I see them in a larger and heavier planted tank with bolbitis and mosses! Maybe that's next time...


It's funny you should say that coz i'm hoping to put 6 in my 80cm, and i've got Bolbitis LOL


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

Looking forward to that!


----------



## George Farmer (18 Feb 2011)

Hi Tom,

Have you heard of Microdevario kubotai?

I kept them for a while in my Dutch.





Really hardy, active and shoal well. A nice size for the Mini-M and a nice colouration IMO.

More info - http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=3044


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

Ooh, very nice George. I've heard the name but never actually seen any about. Did you get yours at Crowland?


----------



## JEK (18 Feb 2011)

What about Boraras brigittae or Aplocheilichthys normanii. Just some suggestions to make it even harder to choose.


----------



## George Farmer (18 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Ooh, very nice George. I've heard the name but never actually seen any about. Did you get yours at Crowland?


The Waterzoo, but they're available at MA @ Crowland too.  If you do choose these then probably best to phone ahead, just in case.

Crowland usually has a great choice of nano fish actually. Be sure to give me a shout if you're in the area.


----------



## Tom (18 Feb 2011)

JEK said:
			
		

> What about Boraras brigittae or Aplocheilichthys normanii. Just some suggestions to make it even harder to choose.



I have kept brigittae before in the 25 liter - very nice fish, but kept jumping. Those little killies would also be nice. Not something I've tried before. 



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> The Waterzoo, but they're available at MA @ Crowland too. If you do choose these then probably best to phone ahead, just in case.
> 
> Crowland usually has a great choice of nano fish actually. Be sure to give me a shout if you're in the area.



Yeah I do like Crowland, always very good variety. I've had several nice Malawis from there recently. Got some lovely dark yellow's from there over Christmas but I could never remember the name of them. They're not labs. 

Will let ya know when I'm up that way. We sometimes go through there on the way to see family in Grimsby


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

I added a few small stems of R. rotundifolia in at the back yesterday. Yet another Pets at Home Tropica impulse buy! It might come out again when I fill the tank if it doesn't look right.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Feb 2011)

As far as an Emergent setup goes, this is just pukka!   

However, when you flood it, do think a lot of the hard work will be lost?

 I mean, rotala, will have to go through the usual change, thus putting you back to square one almost; Along with other plants


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Do I fill it?*

I think you've got a good point, and the stems in particular will be a case of trim and re-plant if I use them. Now would probably be a good time to fill it I think, but that means taking down the 10 liter - or at least switching to Excel only....

Do I fill it today? I'm too nervous of it going wrong!!


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Feb 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Do I fill it? I'm too nervous of it going wrong!!



I think you've got a massive head start over the conventional way.

 Am i right in saying, that bacteria colonisation has already started in a dry start method tank?


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Feb 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Do I fill it? I'm too nervous of it going wrong!!



I think you've got a massive head start over the conventional way.

 Am i right in saying, that bacteria colonisation has already started in a dry start method tank?


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M*

It should have started, yes, assuming enough O2 is getting down there. The plants should have rooted now too, being a month or so into the scape.


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Do I fill it up?*

Gone and done it. Still needs straightening out a bit.


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*


----------



## nayr88 (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Looks uber smart mate. Shame about the pipes but I know your looking for a spring washer .... I hope haha
Did you make the light fixture urself? Little bit of bending and it would look the part. Overall the scape and planting is on point.

The glass is so damn clear!!  I remember when my ada ferts where full ..... Good times haha. Do they have an expiry date?


----------



## George Farmer (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Looks really nice, Tom.  A lovely little addition to anyone's living space.

The central wood stump is bugging me but I guess you have plans and won't notice after lots of plant growth.

All the best with the transition - I realise it's a big moment for you filling it up.  

Will you be using CO2?


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Looks uber smart mate. Shame about the pipes but I know your looking for a spring washer .... I hope haha
> Did you make the light fixture urself? Little bit of bending and it would look the part. Overall the scape and planting is on point.
> 
> The glass is so damn clear!!  I remember when my ada ferts where full ..... Good times haha. Do they have an expiry date?



Yeah the pipes will get cleaned at some point  I've just lifted them off the 10 liter and plonked them back on this one.   

Yeah, the light fixture is the bare bones of what was going to be a Solar Mini DIY build - I just couldn't find anyone local to cut me the metal for the base or light 'shade'. So it's just a block of wood, chrome arm and T8 reflector at the moment. 

I don't know about an expiry - it's all in Japanese!!



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Looks really nice, Tom.  A lovely little addition to anyone's living space.
> 
> The central wood stump is bugging me but I guess you have plans and won't notice after lots of plant growth.
> 
> ...



Thanks George. Yeah the stump is annoying me, but hopefully with some growth behind it it won't be so bad. There's moss all up the back of it and along the stump too which I hope to keep propagating and allow it to hide it a bit. 

Yeah I'm using CO2. I've just put the 10 liter's setup straight on this, atomizer, pipes and all. Just under 2bps at the moment, but I'm tempted to raise it even further for the time being. I'm scared of algae now, after the last couple of experiences!!

I've just taken a shot with a studio flash - not sure if it's going to work though, I'm still trying to work out how to link from Flickr

IMG_89731 

EDIT: Ahhh, that's much better than Photobucket!


----------



## JEK (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Looks great, Tom! I wish I didn't sold my Mini M, it's a nice little tank.
The dirty pipes provides an interesting effect.  
There's bark on some of the wood right? I'm just thinking on whether it will start to degrade when it's underwater..?
Looking forward to follow this one, good luck!


----------



## Piece-of-fish (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Really like this tank. Just went through the whole journal. Somehow missed it before   
Very interesting to see another dry start. I am trying one as well at the moment with hc and lilaeopsis only. Not using fertile soil though. Have mixed results so far, hc would die back in some areas but others grow well. Should make a journal soon as well. 

Like the composition and the use of native hardscape materials. What sort of wood is it btw?
Will follow that now to see the transition.
Good luck.


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*



			
				JEK said:
			
		

> Looks great, Tom! I wish I didn't sold my Mini M, it's a nice little tank.
> The dirty pipes provides an interesting effect.
> There's bark on some of the wood right? I'm just thinking on whether it will start to degrade when it's underwater..?
> Looking forward to follow this one, good luck!



Yes the dirty pipes are obviously intentional to provide a contrast to the as-yet algae free tank of day one!!   
I have used the wood before over quite a long period, so hopefully there won't be any problems. There are some patches of bark though, I hadn't thought about that.  :? 



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Really like this tank. Just went through the whole journal. Somehow missed it before
> Very interesting to see another dry start. I am trying one as well at the moment with hc and lilaeopsis only. Not using fertile soil though. Have mixed results so far, hc would die back in some areas but others grow well. Should make a journal soon as well.
> 
> Like the composition and the use of native hardscape materials. What sort of wood is it btw?
> ...



Would be good to see how your dry start is going! 
I'm not sure what wood it is, sorry - I got it from my local shop years ago. I didn't collect it like the rocks I'm afraid. 
Cheers, I'm gonna need a bit of luck I think!!


----------



## nayr88 (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

very nice photo mate,

superb tank buddy, just realised 12pages and its only relly started haha


----------



## Tom (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

There has been a lot of thought and planning in those 12 pages!!!


----------



## nayr88 (20 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Oh yeh plenty of planning and deciding, makes for a much better journal seeing it all come together.

And it has come together nicely...


----------



## Tom (21 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Cheers Ryan 

1 hour 14 til lights on! (is that sad?   ) It looks like it's gone a bit yellow overnight, which is probably the Aquasoil. Will do a waterchange on it tonight. 

I'm thinking I might have chosen the wrong type of Crypt though. Hopefully the submersed leaves of parva are smaller and less rubbery than the emersed ones! I don't remember it being this big and chunky from before.


----------



## nayr88 (21 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Not sad at all mate, I have forwarded that comment to LondonDragon and his going to put a limit on how much you can access the site....its for your own mental health lol   

I'm sure people can give a lot more indepth info about there tanks haha.

I think you right about that crypt you no. I read it on TGM or another site when I was looking for a crypt for my nano.


----------



## Tom (21 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

LOL trust me I need a forum ban during light hours I think, for my own good!!
Yeah I've had Parva before and the leaves were literally half the size and darker, I'm sure. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Tom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Filled*

Another growth comparison








I'm also starting to get white fluff on some of the wood. What is it? Is it alive? Will excel kill it? Sorry for the bad picture!




Tom


----------



## BigTom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White Fluff?*

Pretty sure the white fluff will be fungus of some sort. I'd expect it to grow some more when flooded. Will die off once it uses up the available nutrients in the wood. Most shrimp will happily eat it too.


----------



## Tom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

Thanks Tom, will keep an eye on it. I need to get some Amano shrimp soon, but I'll wait to see what my MOT throws up next week before I splash out!!


----------



## chilled84 (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Thanks Tom, will keep an eye on it. I need to get some Amano shrimp soon, but I'll wait to see what my MOT throws up next week before I splash out!!



If you want amano's Give me a shout.


----------



## Tom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

Might be an idea... you selling some? Would still have to wait and see about funds, and the local shop has them at the moment...


----------



## Tom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

Just trimmed my Spiky Moss, and now have double the amount of moss stones. Will probably have a couple of portions for sale on the next trim.


----------



## twg (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

I had the exact same white slime on my sumatra wood, developed soon after filling, then completely vanished after about 2-3 weeks. Unsightly at first but no biggy in the long term


----------



## Ian Holdich (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

i had some on this on my sumatra wood. The Amano went mad for it. Its all but gone now.


----------



## Tom (22 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - White fluff on wood?*

That's good, I was starting to panic for a minute that the wood might be naff! Hopefully it will go soon then.


----------



## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

Snap of the first inhabitant


----------



## JEK (23 Feb 2011)

Thats a beautiful shot, Tom. The moss just needs to grow in a bit.


----------



## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

Thanks Johan. The moss was quite a lot more grown in, but I trimmed and re-tied it yesterday so it's all quite bare again. It seems to form nice tight triangular shapes that point slightly upwards. It's nice having moss that doesn't attach to things, but I don't think it will give as rustic a look as Java for example.


----------



## JEK (23 Feb 2011)

What moss is it, Tom?


----------



## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

It's Spiky Moss


----------



## Garuf (23 Feb 2011)

Paulo was after spiky, where did you get it from?


----------



## Tom (23 Feb 2011)

I got mine from NeilW ages ago, then just kept it emersed until it was needed


----------



## Tom (24 Feb 2011)

Just seen the first Diatoms appear today. Have wiped it off the glass, given the gravel a little stir and will to a second 50% water change once my water has warmed up. Hopefully it doesn't give me as much trouble as last time, and I want to keep it to a minimum this time.


----------



## nayr88 (24 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Day 4, first diatoms...*

Nice photo of the shrimp, the hc in the background looks good too.

Don't sweat about the wood I I picked and brush mine and it didn't return. I had shrimp in the tank so maybe once I got it down they kept on top of it.

Any more ideas on fish yet?


----------



## Tom (24 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Day 4, first diatoms...*

No ideas on the fish yet other that what's already been mentioned. I'll probably go for what's cheap at the time!!


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Day 4, first diatoms...*

The single shrimp died overnight for some reason I haven't worked out. Maybe too much CO2? The dorp checker is constantly yellow, even at night. 
Would have been sometime after the 50% water change too. No symptoms I could see, other than death. Looked really nice and bright yesterday.


----------



## LondonDragon (25 Feb 2011)

Most likely CO2, if I went anywhere close to lime green the shrimp started reacting so did the fish!


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

It's been a solid yellow since the start. I notice in the NA World books Amano uses around 1bps if not less for similar sized tanks, with a mental 54w of light. I only have 18w and a lot less plants than his examples, and I'm at 1-2 bps with an inline diffuser. Determined not to get algae this time!! Am dosing slightly extra Brighty K and Step 1, as well as a squirt of Spezial N. Might have to reduce the CO2 for fish, but we'll see. I can't bear to have this tank uncontrollable too!

The diatoms from yesterday were very specifically located - in the center of the front glass/sand/bit of the stone. I wiped it off and changed another 50%, so hopefully I'm going to be able to keep on top of it this time round. Started with a mature filter too which has got to count for something. 

I'm trimming HC daily at the moment too. It's carried on growing at a similar rate to before which is good. No sign of any melting. The micranthemoides is melting slightly in places unfortunately. Rotundifolia is putting out new leaves from the top. 
The Glosso seems to be taking longer to get going in the Mini M than in the Do!aqua cube. My theory there is that as the Mini M has a nutritious substrate, it's putting down it's roots first. The cube however just has plain black sand so presumably is using the water column ferts to grow new green bits. 

Tom


----------



## John Starkey (25 Feb 2011)

Hi Tom,if you look closely at some Amano,s tanks there is a lot of algae present,

John.


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

I've seen it mentioned that his HC isn't always up to scratch. In the NA World books the Marsilea never looks good either, and there is often GSA that I've noticed... makes me feel better about the world!!  Haven't noticed it in the more recent scapes though. I will keep an eye out!


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

_You can see these much better by clicking the pictures and viewing in Flickr!_

I've just taken the exact same tank shot twice - once with the 24-70 2.8L and once with the 70-200 F4L. There is no editing whatsoever, apart from cropping. It's just lit with the normal 18w light this time, which isn't ideal for ISO and speed! The images can be enlarged in Flickr for better viewing by clicking on them. 

Settings were the same both times: 
ISO400
F16
1/6 Second (thereabouts)

On looking at both full tank shots, it is very difficult to tell the two lenses apart. There are minor differences in the images, but nothing that really sets one apart from the other. 

70-200 F4L


24-70 F2.8L


Looking at the cropped images of the front right corner, for me (and surprisingly) the 70-200 most definitely comes out on top in terms of clarity and sharpness. I think it would also be interesting to do the same test with my Asahi Pentax Super Takumar 55 lens too - just to see how superior these pro lenses are at set-up "still life" shots like this. It would also be good to set up the studio light over the tank and re-try the same test with higher shutter speeds and lower ISOs. 

70-200 F4L


24-70 F2.8L


Anyone got any thoughts?

Tom


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - L series lens comparison shots*

And the Asahi Pentax Super Takumar 55 F2 (1960's lens, dirt cheap now)


Crop


OK it's very slightly darker. Also F16, ISO400, and 1/6 second exposure. Apart from the angle of the shot, there is surprisingly little in it again. The Pentax may even be smoother, I'm not sure. 50 years of technology and £900 difference in price, and for a full tank shot I probably couldn't give a definite answer. The cropped in shot does show a slight difference but again, not a lot in it. 

Tom


----------



## Anonymous (25 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - L series lens comparison shots*

I love your shots mate despite the thing that L series is out of my reach 
I notice a little barrel distortion on 70-200, am I right or is the other one?
The background looks nicer in the photo taken with the oldie (it really has some potential) matching the exposure may be frustrating .. btw the lens are clear? Had to UV mine due to the yellowing 

Keep up the good work, I love your tank.

Cheers mate,
Mike


----------



## George Farmer (25 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - L series lens comparison shots*

Fascinating stuff mate.

I'm getting a 24-105L next week.  Can't wait!


----------



## Tom (25 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - L series lens comparison shots*



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> I love your shots mate despite the thing that L series is out of my reach
> I notice a little barrel distortion on 70-200, am I right or is the other one?
> The background looks nicer in the photo taken with the oldie (it really has some potential) matching the exposure may be frustrating .. btw the lens are clear? Had to UV mine due to the yellowing
> 
> ...



Thanks - You are right about the barrel distortion. I set up the shot on a tripod for the 70-200 first, before I thought about a comparison. It was at about 81mm focal length or close, so when I attached the 24-70 I couldn't quite fill the frame with the tank at the maximum 70mm. I didn't want to move the tripod or the perspective would be different. 
This meant that in the 70-200 shot, the edges of the tank were closer to the edge of the frame, hence more barrel distortion. I cropped more off the 24-70 shot, meaning that the tank was more in the center of the frame, hence it was a much straighter image. I would imagine that if both shots were taken at 70mm then the distortion would be equal, so I didn't consider that in my comparison. 

I agree that background looks nicer with the old Pentax lens - this might be to do with the lower angle of the shot or maybe not - but it looks smoother to me. The lens is perfectly clear and retains it's coatings. It's a mint condition example, passed down to me with my Grandma's Pentax S1a. I have quite a collection of old gear now!! I will say that the Pentax lens is much more susceptible to flare and weird colour casts but I'd put this down to age and technology. The aperture blade smoothness wide open is one of the best I've seen - far better than the Canon 50 1.4, not sure about the 1.2L. 

Thanks again 

George - I've borrowed a 24-105 in the past (actually for the owner's wedding - he's a catalogue fashion tog, Littlewoods etc) and I was very impressed. The IS is very nice to have and works well, and it was a tough decision between that and the more expensive 24-70. I went for the 24-70 because when shooting something moving, I would value the extra stop or two more than having the IS at F4. Also, I've got a thing for wider apertures at the moment!!


----------



## Tom (26 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - L series lens comparison shots*

Just another shot from the side by my desk


----------



## LondonDragon (26 Feb 2011)

Nice photos Tom, great detail on that last one, looks like you have a lizard in there! lol
Looking forward to seeing this on fill in


----------



## Tom (26 Feb 2011)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Nice photos Tom, great detail on that last one, looks like you have a lizard in there! lol
> Looking forward to seeing this on fill in



I have. Doesn't look too good though, he keeps gasping at the surface. Too much CO2?   

I've just added a small powerhead to push more water down the back of the tank. I've noticed it's a little bit slow in the back right corner, but not any more    Just looks a bit ugly though  :?


----------



## B7fec (27 Feb 2011)

Looking good! What power head have you put into the scape?


----------



## Tom (27 Feb 2011)

B7fec said:
			
		

> Looking good! What power head have you put into the scape?



I started off with the AquaEl one that came with my 10 liter, but I'm now using an Elite Mini filter without the media part (so just the pump). I've had to turn it down to the lowest setting. I swapped because the Elite was slightly smaller and didn't cause shadow on any of the plants. 

I'm starting to see small amounts of some type of hair algae in the HC on the left of the tank. I find this odd as it gets the most flow in the tank, and in theory the most CO2. Some of the leaves are slightly transparent or slightly rough looking, but it's still local to that end of the tank. The more sheltered parts seems OK. Does HC not like lots of flow?

The Lilaeopsis is still shedding leaves, and I'm pulling out several yellow or rotten leaves daily. There are runners appearing with some new leaves, but I'm not sure whether that's the Lilaeopsis or the tenellus making a comeback after disliking the dry start.  

The 2 Crypts that didn't completely melt in the last 5 weeks or so also look to be struggling putting down roots. I noticed one tiny root coming out of one of them yesterday when yet again it came loose. Could this be due to the fact the roots had been trimmed very short when shipped? I read on theplantedtank.co.uk that a P shortage could also cause poor root growth. P is the only thing I'm not dosing in this tank.

My daily dosing is:
Brighty K - 1.5 ml 
Step 1 - 1.5ml
Spezial N - 1ml
FlowGrow - 1ml
AquaCarbon - 1.5ml

This is following a 50% water change every morning (and for the last 4 days, 50% evening too followed by small doses)

The good news on the diatom front is that since I wiped them stirred affected gravel etc and started 2x 50% water changes daily, they haven't returned as yet. I'm hoping the relatively small problems I'm seeing now are just due to the transition. 

On a happy note, the moss is loving it! Riccia is perking up now too (also didn't like dry start), and is starting to do what I hoped it would which is creep along untied with the HC.

Any thoughts would be very welcome!

Tom


----------



## viktorlantos (27 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - your thoughts on extra P?*

This last image is like a capture from the forest. Noone would tell this is an aquarium shot 
I really like the quality and the detail of your photos Tom.


----------



## George Farmer (27 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - your thoughts on extra P?*

That last shot is superb.  Great creative use of limited depth of field and lovely composition.

Regarding the ferts it seems that you're overcomplicating things a little.  The plants won't mind though, of course.  The Step 1 won't be adding anything extra to the Flowgrow Mikro, so you may want to save that if you ever decide to go exclusive on the ADA system at some point in the future.

Extra P may help.  I've never bothered as my tap water is loaded with it, and I perform so many water changes, but I can't speak for you.


----------



## Tom (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - your thoughts on extra P?*

Thanks Viktor 

George - I was originally going to be dosing ADA only, until I got hold of Tobi's ferts, and your theory that HC might like more Nitrogen. Then I thought I might as well dose Spezial N on top of the ADA ferts, as it can't do any harm. Then I had the Micros sitting there too, and what harm could a little extra do?  Maybe not quite logical, but I thought as I've got it, I might as well dose it on top just to make sure I had enough! Paranoid for this tank!!

I've just noticed some slimy brown hair-type algae on the gravel at the front. Possibly Spirogyra? That would seem to tie in with the ammonia being released form the AS. Not quite sure what do do with it, but I'll probably nuke it with Excel after the water change. 

The only thing I have done differently to the tank before seeing the algae is to add that powerhead. I've noticed the drop checker now shows green rather than the strong yellow it had done before. I haven't touched the injection rates. I also missed this morning's water change as I forgot to warm up more water, but that shouldn't cause problems in one morning, surely. 

There's also a bit of GSA on one of the rocks I just noticed, and have ordered some KPO4 to dose as I don't currently have any P. 

Tom


----------



## Garuf (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - your thoughts on extra P?*

I suspect it's more likely diatoms, see James c's guide, if it is, ottos clear it up super quickly.


----------



## Tom (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - your thoughts on extra P?*

Really? It was quite hairy, I thought diatoms were 'flat'?

Here's the GSA - or GDA, I'm not sure....


----------



## Garuf (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*






?


----------



## Tom (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

I can't see the image Garuf, just says "hotlinking"


----------



## Garuf (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

Ahh, it's from James c's guide, it's a picture of the "hairy" diatoms.


----------



## Tom (28 Feb 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

Ah, right I see. I think that image must have a broken link as I can't see it full size on the website either. Yeah it's completely possible it is diatoms - I just haven't had stringy ones before. There is a small amount of GDA on the glass too. Weird how it all arrives on one day and so quickly! 

I used 100% tapwater for the water change earlier whereas before I used mainly rainwater - Interestingly, I am now seeing pearling for the first time.


----------



## flygja (1 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

Possibly too much ferts? The Spezial N contains Urea too, which in my opinion, should be used carefully.


----------



## Anonymous (1 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

Tom the algae are normal now, your tank is not fully matured/cycled and the plants are still adapting.
I'd advice you to cut the lights period to half (4/5 hours a day) for a while and do large water changes frequently (this will keep your dissolved organic mater at minimum), at least this is what I do when I have an algae outbreak in newly established tanks.

Cheers mate and good luck,
Mike


----------



## Tom (1 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*



			
				flygja said:
			
		

> Possibly too much ferts? The Spezial N contains Urea too, which in my opinion, should be used carefully.



I'm dosing 1ml (ish) per day, which should give me just over 2ppm NO3 I think. 



			
				clonitza said:
			
		

> Tom the algae are normal now, your tank is not fully matured/cycled and the plants are still adapting.
> I'd advice you to cut the lights period to half (4/5 hours a day) for a while and do large water changes frequently (this will keep your dissolved organic mater at minimum), at least this is what I do when I have an algae outbreak in newly established tanks.
> 
> Cheers mate and good luck,
> Mike



Thanks Mike. I have cut the lights to 5 hours per day, 10am to 3pm. That's 2 hours shorter than normal. I'm still doing 2x 50% water changes per day. Yesterday's algae has mostly gone again after the liquid carbon "treatment" and water changes. 

Cheers


----------



## Tom (1 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - algae*

I now have some Xmas moss on the way from Mr. Starkey. I'm finding that the Spiky Moss isn't ideal for this scape. I'll probably still leave some in there, but I reckon most will go in my cube now. Looking forward to getting it in, but will be tricky tying it to wood now it's filled and planted!


----------



## Tom (2 Mar 2011)

Xmas moss arrived this morning, and very nice it was. I've replaced almost all of the Spiky moss, which is now in the cube. I need to trim the old hairgrass blades on the left hand side.


----------



## JEK (2 Mar 2011)

Coming along nicely, Tom. It looks really mature already.


----------



## Tom (2 Mar 2011)

Thanks Johan, it's not bad from a distance!
The tenellus is picking up a bit now which I'm pleased about as I thought it was struggling. There are several good size new leaves I noticed earlier. The stems have grown about an inch so far too, and will hopefully keep going strong. The micranthemoides has perked up now, which was struggling initially with the change from emersed to submersed. Some of it melted, but what is there now is looking really nice. Just gotta get this moss going and under control. The Hairgrass could do with some attention too, but it's putting through new blades now. Just need to get rid of the old ones. 
The Glosso isn't taking as well in this tank as it is in the cube for some reason. Will keep a close eye on it. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (3 Mar 2011)

Not really an update, but I can't stop taking pictures. I have now starting adding Phosphate though.


----------



## Tom (4 Mar 2011)

I thought it might be time to clean my pipes. Stopped off at an arty shop this afternoon and got me some pipe cleaners (£2.70 for around 50!). Perfect, no other word for it. I found it helps to double them up by twisting two together, and extending to double the length as well. It also helped to fold the end over a few times and flatten it down so you can get right to the end of the inlet. That was the hardest part, getting all the way to the end of the inlet. 

Quick bleach soak, rinse in dechlorinator and re-connect! About time eh? Who needs an ADA Spring Washer at £30?














I trimmed the HC today as well. It had gotten quite tall in places, despite the new growth not being great at the moment. 




Tom


----------



## JEK (4 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - nag me no more...*


----------



## George Farmer (4 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - nag me no more...*

Perfect!  Well done, Tom.


----------



## Tom (5 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - nag me no more...*

I'm thinking I might try and make better use of the stems at the back. The mistake I have made, is that I have so much foreground and lower growth that I haven't left much room for the background or any higher growth. I've added a full tank shot to show what I am contemplating at the moment. The green line shows where I would like the line of Rotala 'green' and 'rotundifolia' to be once it has been trimmed and has bushed out. The red areas are where I would like some more stems. The decision is whether to use trimmings from my R. 'green', or to get some H. micranthemoides to try and add the shape. I would likely remove the stones at the back left to be replaced with one of these choices. Maybe even use the Glosso and HM as a transition up to the R. 'green'. I think adding something on the right behind the smaller piece of wood would dramatically help too, and the Tenellus is already doing a nice job growing through the stems. It may mean losing a small patch of HC and maybe some Lilaeopsis in that corner too. 

Any thoughts on this welcome!!








Tom


----------



## Garuf (5 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

I think it looks amazing, you just need some ottos to clean up them diatoms. Are you running an inline heater at all?


----------



## Tom (5 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

Thanks Garuf - yes I do need a couple, I'm just worried about gassing them at the moment. Fairly hefty CO2 at the moment. Will likely try one next time I'm going past the LFS. I did have a look in P@H but no surprises they didn't have any there. 

No heater on this still unfortunately. I sold my Hydor nearly new a couple of years ago when the 60cm went t. up.


----------



## Tom (5 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

I should have some H. micranthemoides coming tuesday  I'm looking forward to having a play with the background to see if we can improve things...


----------



## Tom (6 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

Here's a top-down shot of the HC patch that's melting. It's odd that it's only one patch, but you can see there are some new leaves coming through. It's melting pretty quickly though.


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

This is one of the main reasons i dont agree with the dry start method.

 IMO, it just seems pointless.

You may aswell, just start from day one, planting and filling with water. 

Tom, this is an incredible Nano by the way mate,


----------



## Tom (6 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> This is one of the main reasons i dont agree with the dry start method.
> 
> IMO, it just seems pointless.
> 
> You may aswell, just start from day one, planting and filling with water.



Tom Barr doesn't seem to have any transition problems at all - I don't know what kind of wizardry he employs! The HC was lovely for a week or so under water and was growing pretty quickly, but recently it does look to be trying new tactics, and losing the older growth in places. At least it's still growing, and there is new growth post-trim. As far as I can see now, the benefit has probably been that it has allowed the HC and tenellus to root nicely before flooding. It's taken that burden from them, which I suppose is better than melting HC with no roots! The tenellus has really kicked in now though and is doing well, but I have lost 100% of the original plant. Lilaeopsis still doesn't know what to make of all that water, and is largely going yellow with diatoms. It may well come out to be replaced by the new tenellus growth and HM when it comes. 

Next time I would probably still start the HC emersed for a fortnight or so, but everything else will go in with the water. 



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Tom, this is an incredible Nano by the way mate,



Thanks a lot, high praise indeed  I just wish I could do something bigger. If the current business venture takes off I'll likely get a 60P....   There are several things with this tank I'm not happy about and if I apply the things I've learned through this, my next scape will hopefully be a bit better

Tom


----------



## Tom (7 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Opinions?*

I've just trimmed most of the Rotala stems and replanted the tops. The old emersed growth was just too ugly to put up with, and I thought it would be worth doing. Will probably need to do a water change in a bit too, as I pulled them from the roots and disturbed the Aquasoil at the back. Just need the micranthemoides to be planted tomorrow and that should be the final major adjustment. Hopefully then I can just let it grow. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (9 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Stems re-planted*

My HM arrived today, very many thanks to Piece-Of-Fish 

Before


After


----------



## BigTom (9 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - HM added, new pics*

Looks lovelly. I still think my favourite thing about this tank is the hardscape though, really top-notch. Don't let it get too swallowed up by all those horrible plants


----------



## Tom (9 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - HM added, new pics*

I'm more worried about being swallowed by those diatoms than plants personally!  They definitely seem to be receding though. Who needs Otos? (probably me    ). I'm getting a little bit in the front corners on the sand still, but it's well under control


----------



## Tom (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - HM added, new pics*

Just a shot of the diatoms at lights on today. No scrubbing, I promise! Improvement?


----------



## Tom (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

Another picture, sorry... Blame Mark.


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

sweet as a nut.

One thing i'd watch for in final photos, which your probably aware of Tom...

you've fired flash from the front?....the 1 inch of sand which is normally in darkness, looks like a foreground.


----------



## Tom (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

Flash was overhead for this. I think the odd-coloured sand might be a reflection from the orangy-wood cabinet it's sitting on. Either that or the fact that I was pressing the shutter, holding the flash and balancing black blanket as well as I could at the same time! Maybe some window-light got through. It has gone an odd colour though!!


----------



## George Farmer (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

Really nice, Tom.

The photography is superb, and the aquascape is coming along just great.  

Should be ready in time for the IAPLC, if you're entering this year?


----------



## Tom (10 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

Thanks George  I keep forgetting it's not even three weeks old yet post-fill-up, so it's not doing too badly. Should get going a bit now. The stems will be the challenge now, getting them all nice and dense.
Yeah, I'll be entering. Haven't put anything into competition for a couple of years now, the last one was maybe 2008. I know the smaller tanks don't seem to rate very well, but I only have 786th place to beat or something like that, so with a bit of luck....!!


----------



## Tom (12 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Diatom improvement, new pics*

I've just added 2 Otos and 4 Amano shrimp. None of them look very good though, The Otos are near enough white, and the shrimp have vanished. Hopefully they will be OK in the morning 

On a happier note, I have replaced the rubber cap from the Eheim's impellar shaft, and it is much quieter.


----------



## Ian Holdich (12 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp*

great pics Tom!

I'm sure the Oto's will be fine, they always go like this IME. Great little workers when they get going. 

Great pics on the website as well!


----------



## Tom (13 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp*

Thanks ianho 

Well they do look better this morning. The Otos are clinging to the glass in the (pretty heavy) flow and they look a decent colour. I've seen 3 of 4 shrimp too. One is hiding, whereas the other two seem more active. 

Tom


----------



## John Starkey (13 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp*

Coming along very nicely now Tom,i really like the layout now that the plants are growing in and i can see an improvement in the diatoms,

john.


----------



## Tom (13 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp*

Thanks John. Just looking, there is a significant improvement on the diatoms on the rocks again today which I am very happy about. Hopefully the Otos will settle in well and finish it off. The 'stringy' type of diatoms are the more prominent now, particularly on the larger patch of HC on the left. That makes sense as parts of it are still melting and re-growing. The shrimp are on the pathway at the moment cleaning bits from between the rocks. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (13 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp*

Couple of quick shots from just now. Please click for larger images in Flickr.

Diatom improvement


Oto - pretty skinny, I hope they eat something! Might give them a wafer to try just to perk them up


Amano Shrimp - happily cleaning the path. 


Tom


----------



## Tom (17 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - Otos and Shrimp - Pictures!*

I've just ordered a 24w Phillips 6500K compact T5 from Lampspecs to replace my current 18w T5. I've noticed that the lower parts of the stems are pretty scraggly. I used 24w before on this size tank, with good effect so I will do it again. Also, I'm wondering if the current light is responsible for my struggling HC particularly on one side. The 'bad' side is the one at the end where the bulb fits into the holder, and probably doesn't get as much light. The longer 24w bulb will give a better spread of light. 

Oh, and these Amano Shrimp are nightmares for spreading my Aquasoil all over the sand!


----------



## Tom (18 Mar 2011)

Just some pre and post trim photos. Had a good clearout this morning, trimming all the stems and tidying the HC. The HM on the left had more or less completely melted, so I have re-planted with trimmings from the other side. Hopefully this time it will grow a bit better. I've had to re-tie some of the moss too as the cotton dissolved and strategically place it to try and stop the Amanos from pouring the Aquasoil all over the sand   










Tom


----------



## Garuf (18 Mar 2011)

Beautiful tom, are all your issues under control now?


----------



## Tom (20 Mar 2011)

I think so more or less. All 'flat' diatoms are gone now, and the HC is looking a little bit better on the left now. Still has hairy diatoms though. With a bit of luck, the HM will take off and I will be able to replant the tops nicely to fill out the area on the left a bit. The trimmed HM on the right already has new tips within two days, but the Rotalas are slower with no new growth yet. I've just had to re-tie some more moss too the stones again after the old cotton dissolved. I've used polyester cotton this time!

The main noticeable difference since upgrading from 18w to 24w of light is that I am seeing pearling for the first time - and masses of it. The lights are due to go off in 30 mins, and the water column is full of O2 bubbles rising from the stems and tenellus.   

Tom


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

Yet again the HM is melting away. Every time I trim and replant the decent top halves, as soon as it's replanted the bottom melts away again and I'm back to square one. I don't see where it's going wrong. As far as I can see, the dosing is fine. Everyone else seems to be trimming their hairgrass fine too, but mine is just rotting it's way back to the base as soon as it's trimmed, which attracts a whole load of stringy diatoms. 

I've started to see some BBA on the wood too, but I'm pretty sure the fish can't cope with any more CO2. I'm already dosing 1.5ml Excel on top.


----------



## gmartins (22 Mar 2011)

Hi Tom,

I'm pretty much a noob here but as a general picture I got after lots of reading maybe you should consider giveing a step back and lower your light (18W)? More light = more co2 + more ferts.

Does this make sense?

cheers,

GM


----------



## Anonymous (22 Mar 2011)

Hi Tom,

Do you test your CO2 levels? What's your fertilizing routine?

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

Thanks GM, yes that would make sense. The algae is well under control at the moment even though it is still there. I have increased the CO2 very slightly but will keep a close eye on the Otos. The main reason I increased the lights in the first place was firstly that the lower Rotala stems were pretty bare, and secondly that I thought it could be a reason that the HC on one side wasn't as good, but that probably wasn't the cause. 

Mike - I had a drop checker in there for quite a while, but it just stayed yellow the whole time (apart from going red after not rinsing it properly! I used 4DKH water. If you look at Amano's similar size tanks in the NA World books, he uses double my lighting and half my CO2 levels with higher plant mass! Unless his figures were put down wrong. 

Ferts are now:
2ml Spezial N
2ml Flowgrow Mikros
2ml Brighty K
2ml Step 2 (for what it's worth, I'm sure it can't hurt)
0.9ppm PO4
1.5ml AE Carbon (Excel)
and then 3 drops of Green Gain after the daily water change

Cheers,
Tom


----------



## Garuf (22 Mar 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Thanks GM, yes that would make sense. The algae is well under control at the moment even though it is still there. I have increased the CO2 very slightly but will keep a close eye on the Otos. The main reason I increased the lights in the first place was firstly that the lower Rotala stems were pretty bare, and secondly that I thought it could be a reason that the HC on one side wasn't as good, but that probably wasn't the cause.
> 
> Mike - I had a drop checker in there for quite a while, but it just stayed yellow the whole time (apart from going red after not rinsing it properly! I used 4DKH water. If you look at Amano's similar size tanks in the NA World books, he uses double my lighting and half my CO2 levels with higher plant mass! Unless his figures were put down wrong.
> 
> ...


ADA's tubes all produce much lower levels of par than you'd expect for the wattage. There's a test of the mini solar's and the par is 20-35umols at the substrate.


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

That's interesting Garuf, I would have expected them to be quite efficient. 

Just an example of the stats from NA World 2 page 25:
Tank: roughly Mini S sized
Light: 27w x2 (54w)
CO2: once per 2 seconds
Plants are lots of Riccia and Stems.


----------



## nayr88 (22 Mar 2011)

Tanks looking lovely Tom, very green and clean.

Interesting to see how your hc is going after the dsm, I'm attempting the same on my opti nano.

Sorry if you been asked before but have you found using the dsm to be worth while? With the old growth die back ect did it actually help? In theory it should because the root system is there, its spread, the leaves just need to transition.

Cheers


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

nayr88 said:
			
		

> Tanks looking lovely Tom, very green and clean.



You ought to see a closeup!   

A week or so after I filled it, the HC still looked great. Since then, the left hand side has been awful and is still nasty, but the center and right sides are lovely. It's really odd. I probably won't use DSM next time. The tenellus was very bad adjusting too. I don't know how it can be done with no issues, but some people manage it.

Yeah the roots thing is the theory, and from that perspective it worked (with the exception of Crypts), but the rest of it didn't fare so well. 

Tom


----------



## Mark Evans (22 Mar 2011)

Your suffering classic diatoms and ammonia release mate. That's what i reckon anyway.

I've gone through the exact same thing in the last 2 tanks. 

Water Changes and then some mate. Daily! 

dont let it beat you, as it's a fine tank mate.


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

Thanks Mark  All diatoms on the rocks have now gone completely so it must be the struggling HC that is releasing ammonia rather than in the water column from the Aquasoil. Hopefully the HC will sort itself out soon enough, but it's a right pain! Also the Lilaeopsis is having the same problem I think. It hasn't started growing yet, so it might have to come out to simplify things. 
Been on daily water changes since flooding and I'll carry on with that. 

Thanks again


----------



## Anonymous (22 Mar 2011)

Isn't it a little bit too much PO4 added?  How much water do you change daily? How big is your tank? (I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with ADA aquariums). I'd also dose some Epsom salt, Mg did wonders in my low tech tank, last week all the plants were struggling to survive now they show real growth. Hope it helps.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Tom (22 Mar 2011)

It might be overkill yes, but I just didn't want anything to be deficient! I was advised to dose 1 ml to give me 0.45ppm, but I just thought what the hell! The water change is 50% or thereabouts, which is almost one bucket. Total volume is 20-25 liters. Thanks for the advice re: Epsom salt, I will have a look into it and try some. I'll update when I've got some and keep a close eye on and improvements.

Thanks


----------



## Tom (23 Mar 2011)

Update - Decided to do something positive to make some improvements, so I ripped out all the Lilaeopsis I could find. Oddly, the only parts that had grown were heavily shaded, and the rest had gone nasty. I also separated the tenellus and re-planted it more evenly. Had to remove a lot of HM that disintegrated when touched. The Rotala is also very raggedy too, but hopefully after the next trim it will be a bit better. 

Made a right mess, then did a 75% water change and re-dosed. Will do the filter tomorrow. Apologies for shocking pictures, I really couldn't be bothered after that!

Let's hope it improves things a bit, I'm not having a 4th tank in a row beat me.


----------



## Piece-of-fish (23 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - rip out and try again*

Really surprising that you have so many issues with it. Everything should be good acording to your specs.
Good luck with it


----------



## Tom (24 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - rip out and try again*

Thanks, I don't understand either. Still hoping the HC is just transition issues. 

Mike, I've just started dosing Epsom Salts (proper 100% stuff now, not what I made the thread about!!) and I'll keep an eye on it.

Tom


----------



## Anonymous (24 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - rip out and try again*

Hi Tom, hopefully the Mg dosing will make the difference if not then you have enough in your tap and have to have a little more patience until things settle down. 

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Tom (25 Mar 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - rip out and try again*

Looking at the water quality report for last year, the Mg sample from only one test was 6.9ppm. That's the most accurate and up to date sample I can get. That should be plenty if it's the same still. K and N are also reasonable, around 3-4ppm. 

I've just given the HC another trim - it is growing quick enough, just covered in stringy diatoms. Another P@H impulse buy has lead to another slight redesign of the back/midground. I've got to stop doing this.


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

Tank went through a 3 day blackout to try and clear the rest of the algae on the HC - slight improvement, but not much. Ferts changed back to just ADA Brighty K and Step 1. Let's see if this improves anything. There was a surprising amount of growth during those 3 days though - the stems are about an inch taller. 

Quick shot of the Staurogyne


Tom


----------



## bigmatt (31 Mar 2011)

I found this with a blackout!  ceg4048 told me that stems grow as they are trying (basically - his explanation was a lot longer and more comprehensive!) to strive upwards to find light - can't find the thread unfortunately! 
Cheers, and lovely little tank BTW - love how it evolves a little every time you go to LFS!  
Matt


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

In that case I'll do a blackout once a fortnight! Haha! Cheers  One of these days I'll find a set of plants that survive in here and try not to change things!


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

Quick full shot


----------



## Steve Smith (31 Mar 2011)

Nice!

Can you remind me what glassware that is?


----------



## Tom (31 Mar 2011)

Cheers Steve. Its the old aquaessentials pipes. I think i bought the last pair
Tom


----------



## Piece-of-fish (31 Mar 2011)

Looking good. Getting there. Very natural feel.


----------



## gregalon (1 Apr 2011)

Hi Tom I'm loving the tank! what is the brand of that lily pipe and what are the dimensions (10mm, 13mm?) ?


----------



## Tom (1 Apr 2011)

Hi Greg, they're AquaEssentials own brand, but I think they have been discontinued. They are like the ADA nano pipes, but the intake holes are quite roughly cut. They are very nice for the price I got them for. The inlet is 12mm and the outlet is 9mm as I assume they are designed for the smaller Eheim Classic filters. You'll notice this is what the Mini tanks run off in the ADA Gallery.  

Tom


----------



## gregalon (1 Apr 2011)

I just checked and it looks like they've been discontinued, there's a 12 and 17mm but its 50 pounds so I'll go for a chinese brand. Thanks anyway and I'm loving what you've done with the mini m. regards, greg


----------



## Tom (1 Apr 2011)

Thanks Greg. Have a look at the Cal Aqua Nano pipes at The Green Machine. They are much nicer pipes, but are a little more expensive. I had them before, but I managed to break them both - I still have a painful finger over 6 months later where one of them snapped and got me.

Tom


----------



## Tom (1 Apr 2011)

I've just trimmed the HC back pretty hard on the left - that's the worst affected area, so I've thinned it out and replanted some in the hope that it re-grows back a bit more smoothly. 





And a nice shrimp picture  - Click for bigger image in Flickr



Tom


----------



## Anonymous (2 Apr 2011)

Nice shrimp pic, excellent quality . Hope your algae issues end soon.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Tom (7 Apr 2011)

Well things are getting progressively worse, and the diatoms are back now alongside Spirogyra, BBA and Staghorn. I haven't touched the CO2. Spyro is now covering most if not all of the moss too, and all the lower parts of the stems. The plants are growing reasonably well and pearling heavily (didn't used to), but then get covered in algae Spiro and Diatoms. 

Why is it that every tank I do now does this? I'm starting to think there's something wrong with my water. I know people will tell me it's my fault, but this is getting ridiculous. The last several tanks I've done have ended up like this. At least this time plants are growing under the mat of slime and hair. 3 years ago, my tanks didn't have a speck of algae using the same system I have now.


----------



## Steve Smith (7 Apr 2011)

I guess you could try ruling out your water and switching to RO for a while?


----------



## nayr88 (7 Apr 2011)

Ro is alot of effort, have you contacted your water board? Get the low down whats going on and some details on the water and post them up, 

It's a shame because it looks like a nice little nano, can be disheartening but stick  at it mate


----------



## LondonDragon (7 Apr 2011)

Very strange Tom, you sure you have adequate flow all around the tank?


----------



## chump54 (7 Apr 2011)

Tom, you could try rain water too, it's free and sometimes loads of it, although not at the moment 

Chris


----------



## Tom (7 Apr 2011)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I guess you could try ruling out your water and switching to RO for a while?



I have thought about it, but the cost of driving to get it and the amount I would need put me off! Even if I stuck to just two or three water changes a week, it's over one container per week plus 30 mile round trip to get it. 



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Ro is alot of effort, have you contacted your water board? Get the low down whats going on and some details on the water and post them up,
> 
> It's a shame because it looks like a nice little nano, can be disheartening but stick  at it mate



The online tests for 2010 average don't seem to show anything dodgy, but I suppose it could have changed more recently. Can't think what might have changed to cause problems like this though. If there is something wrong, it doesn't affect fish. 



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Very strange Tom, you sure you have adequate flow all around the tank?



The problems started in the area of most flow (HC opposite the outlet), and has gradually spread to the whole tank. The HC in the middle of the tank (very low flow) is the healthiest and best growing by far. I can't really lower the flow though, as the opposite end of the tank will be still water. A spray bar along the back may be my next move.  



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> Tom, you could try rain water too, it's free and sometimes loads of it, although not at the moment
> 
> Chris



Yep, but we've run out at the moment. The water tank was fairly nasty recently though, so it might not have been good to use it anyway. All my successful tanks so far have been exclusively on rainwater with the ADA system I use now, and these are the results - barely a speck of algae, and using the same system except more powerful lighting. 











Tom


----------



## nayr88 (7 Apr 2011)

That's tank is stunning mate any more infro or before comparison shots, proper little beaut.

What moss is it?


----------



## Tom (7 Apr 2011)

Cheers Ryan - this is why I can't understand this time round! It's plain old Java Moss in there. 

That tank went through 3 stages back in 2008 that used the same Java Moss base. 
Stage 1 - http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... ol=0&id=90
Quite unruly and not well-trimmed. Not mature either.

Stage 2 - http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... ol=0&id=83
This was the second attempt, and the one I prefer out of the three. The moss was pretty nice by this point.

Stage 3 - http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... ol=0&id=89
Changed to Iwagumi, just to try it out.

Tom


----------



## Tom (7 Apr 2011)

It started life like this:


----------



## LondonDragon (7 Apr 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> A spray bar along the back may be my next move.


Was going to suggest that to spread the flow more evenly to see if it made a difference, hard luck Tom! Keep fighting


----------



## Tom (7 Apr 2011)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Tom said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Might have a go at DIY-ing one tomorrow then. Won't be pretty, but anything's better than algae. Could probably open the tap up on the filter then too and get a higher turnover with less velocity!!


----------



## nayr88 (7 Apr 2011)

Yeah defo go for a spray bar mate, take your time with it and it'll come out really well.

I read up abit on it, as an electrician we bent plastic tubes, larger than what you would use but same principle, we used a metal rod that's like a spring, in this case I don't think that would any good, your better of filling the tube your bending with salt/sand and heating then bending. I'd have a U-bend to get over the glass followed by a 90degree bend to get the actual bar across the back of the tank.  Would be good it you could get a suction cup on it? Like the ehiem ones.

Cheers ill check the links now


----------



## Steve Smith (7 Apr 2011)

I guess the next question might be filter maintenance etc.  Anything died in the filter/any issues with livestock (sorry, I can't remember if there's live stock in the tank).


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## B7fec (7 Apr 2011)

God Tom sorry to hear about the troubles......such a nice little setup too. I'd go with the spray bar idea mate, I had an eheim spray bar in my old scape when I broke my lily outlet and the results were awesome. Much better circulation and flow, better CO2 distribution because of it and my plants pearled like crazy!


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## Tom (8 Apr 2011)

Right, spray bar in place. Bodged together from several different filters. It now sits on the end of my lily, and I've opened the tap right up on the Eheim. I'd estimate an actual turnover of maybe 20x. You can see where I've replaced most of the sand too in an attempt to clean things up a bit. Stones have also been removed, and are awaiting some patience from me so they can be put back again. The moss under the small bit of wood floated away - none of the moss has shown any signs of attaching to anything yet. 





Moss after trimming the nasty stuff away yesterday. It's growing quite quickly, but doesn't take long to be covered in nastiness. 




Good old Spiro again




Some of the BBA/Stag




The Staurogyne keeps putting out new leaves (as does the Hydrocotyle), but only the top node stays clean - the rest goes brown and diatomy once again




Tom


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## Tom (8 Apr 2011)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I guess the next question might be filter maintenance etc.  Anything died in the filter/any issues with livestock (sorry, I can't remember if there's live stock in the tank).



Filter is regularly squeezed out and rinsed in the water change bucket. Maybe weekly or so, but it gets pretty nasty in the bio-ball section. I had 2 Otos - one died within a few days of being in there, the other died in the blackout. Both seemed healthy before dying, so I could only assume too much CO2 - but then why the BBA/Staghorn?

As for shrimp, I know I have a couple, but I haven't seen all 4 at a time since the blackout. Haven't found anything dead though, so they might just be behind the log again.


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## Anonymous (8 Apr 2011)

I do the filter maintenance every three-four months and I usually empty the canister and rinse or change the prefilter and that's it, maybe once a year I rinse the other media, even when I had internal filters with little filter media I usually didn't touch them too often.

Cheers,
Mike


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## ghostsword (8 Apr 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> so I could only assume too much CO2 - but then why the BBA/Staghorn?
> .



I had issues with BBA and I had lots of CO2. I also had a air pump at night. Turned the air pump off and no more BBA. 

Can't explain it, but it was the only thing that has changed in the past month.


----------



## LondonDragon (8 Apr 2011)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Can't explain it, but it was the only thing that has changed in the past month.


Guess the levels of CO2 the remain in the water column are now more stable than before, as the surface agitation from the water pump would get rid of most of the co2 in the water, now it doesn't.


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## Tom (13 Apr 2011)

BBA




Other stuff, still there. 




Whatever this is, it comes back very very quickly - suggestions vary from Diatoms to Spiro to Rhizo. If it's either of the first two, I don't know where the ammonia came from to cause it. If it's Rhizo, I'm blasting it with 2bps plus liquid carbon. The BBA and Staghorn suggest CO2, but there is so much going in! George managed with just Excel in a smaller tank with the same lighting. I'm dosing that, plus actual CO2 and I still get CO2-related algae.


----------



## Steve Smith (13 Apr 2011)

How old is the wood Tom?  Could it be decomposing and causing problems?  Clutching at straws now!


----------



## a1Matt (13 Apr 2011)

I've not read all the details, so apologies if this has been covered already...

I get BBA outbreaks from time to time in my main tank.  I've noticed a large WC often triggers them, but the underlying cause is always a dirty tank.  eg do not clean the filter for over a month, then disturb some muck, and do a WC.. couple of weeks later, BBA.

Hope that helps.


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## Anonymous (15 Apr 2011)

Again some quick tips since I've just started the first Amazonia tank a month ago:

The diatoms stringy thingy is normal, I have it on my moss but I let it be, I just use a brush to clean it, it should disappear when tanks matures.
Try not to trim the plants too often, let the recover and they should overcome the algae, concentrate only on flow and CO2 distribution.
And finally have more patience 

Cheers,
Mike


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## Tom (20 Apr 2011)

Steve - The wood doesn't seem to be causing the main problem. The stringy algae is only on the plants, not the wood. The BBA and Staghorn however is only on the wood, but the wood wouldn't cause that would it? There's now some dark hair algae on the edges of the old Staurogyne leaves. 

Mike - The the thing is the tank should be mature by now, surely. I had normal diatoms for quite a while during startup, then everything cleared within a couple of days and it was near perfect. Then suddenly I had this outbreak, which is still growing incredibly quickly. The algae is growing about half an inch to an inch per day. I'm down to 11w of light too now, and the tank looks very dark. Could be because of the red bulb though. 

I'm still at 2bps CO2 which should be way way too much, yet the BBA and Staghorn is still accelerating. The Amano's seem to hide all day and night too - They don't appear to eat any algae at all, and as I've already said the Otos were gassed. 

The spraybar is great for distribution - the CO2 bubbles are easily flowing round the whole tank and are being blasted directly at the BBA on the wood with no improvement. Anyway, even with the level of Excel I'm dosing I shouldn't even need to add any CO2!


----------



## Steve Smith (20 Apr 2011)

Did you say in another post that you're lowering the level of Excel you're dosing, or was that someone else?  If it were someone else, then this seemed to make a difference.  I think the theory was that the excel was weakening the plants too and not helping matters.


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## Tom (20 Apr 2011)

I lowered it by about a third in my Do!Aqua which may have helped, but there could have been a number of factors. I had stopped the dosing in this tank as advised a few pages back (along with everything but ADA and MgSO4). I'm now giving it 1.5ml because of the bloom in CO2 related algae. My actual CO2 just keeps going up and up every few days.


----------



## Steve Smith (20 Apr 2011)

How are you diffusing CO2 into the water, with a ceramic diffuser?  I guess you must of played around with the position of the diffuser.  Maybe it's worth considering an up!aqua in-line or something like that?


----------



## Tom (20 Apr 2011)

It's an UP atomizer now, and the whole water column is full of bubbles. This is why I don't understand the CO2-related algae. It should be absolutely fine. 2bps (even 1bps) should be more than enough, surely. The plants still are pearling heavily still under 11w.


----------



## Steve Smith (20 Apr 2011)

Are they pearling, or is it CO2 bubbles building up on leaf surfaces?

You've got more stamina than I do Tom, I'd of given in by now!


----------



## Johno2090 (20 Apr 2011)

Sorry if I missed it but what media are you using in your filter?

And also do you know what type of wood that is? It looks like the stuff you find in streams and if that is the case it will decompose rapidly try taking a long nail and seeing how firm it is in the middle.


----------



## Tom (20 Apr 2011)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Are they pearling, or is it CO2 bubbles building up on leaf surfaces?
> 
> You've got more stamina than I do Tom, I'd of given in by now!



I'm 90% sure it's pearling  

Yeah, I've thought about giving up several times! It's just I can't bear to chuck away all that ADA stuff, and I went all the way to TGM to get it! And it's the first scape in the Mini M. Next time I will go back to using Malaya. This is the second time I've used Amazonia and the second time I've buggered it up. I'm not blaming the soil, I know it works. I'm just wondering what difference it might make, if any when dosed with the Spezial N.  



			
				Johno2090 said:
			
		

> Sorry if I missed it but what media are you using in your filter?
> 
> And also do you know what type of wood that is? It looks like the stuff you find in streams and if that is the case it will decompose rapidly try taking a long nail and seeing how firm it is in the middle.



I'm using the standard Eheim Bio Balls, Plastic and Ceramic rings, and course and fine foam in the pre-filter section of the Ecco Pro 300. 

Wood is from the LFS. Pretty solid stuff, I don't think it's rotting. There is a little bit of bark round it, but it doesn't seem to have been affected at all. 

Tom


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## Johno2090 (20 Apr 2011)

Yeah I know the stuff your talking about now I used it in my last tank and it was great. 

Maybe it's time to remove the livestock and nuke with excel to restart. 

No idea why your problems are so compounded, nasty!


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## Tom (23 Apr 2011)

Quick shot from 3 minutes ago. Had a really good thorough clean out yesterday and removed all algae I had the patience for and gave it a 75% water change. I think I'm going to go back to changing water every other day, and full strength with the macros again. It seemed to accelerate after the blackout when I stopped all but ADA Brighty K and Step 1. One thing I have noticed about the algae though is that pre-blackout if I look at the pictures it looks more like "stronger" filamentous algae, but now is more like Rhizoclonium. 

I still haven't replaced the small stones from the foreground either. Need to tidy that gravel!


----------



## nayr88 (23 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

Looks great Tom, cool spray bar. How you finding it?


----------



## Tom (23 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

Great when the algae's not there  It hasn't looked that clean for well over a month!! 

How am I finding the spray bar? Much better, although I need to sort out those connectors and cups!! There's still a slightly slow patch back right, but it doesn't seem to be causing a problem. I just want to see what happens this week now I've changed the routine again and removed loads of crap. The HC needs a trim too, and the stems will in the next couple of days. Will nuke the BBA again on the next water change if I get the water level low enough. 

I dipped the moss stones in an Excel solution too which I forgot about. Will have to see how it copes and if they clean up at all. The 3 new Amanos are still hard at work, and much more active than the old ones. 

Question: I noticed on one of Filipe Oliviera's tanks with tenellus he seemed to trim it into shape like grass. I didn't think you could do that with Echinodorus'? My Eleocharis doesn't even seem to like that! Anyone have any input on that?

Tom


----------



## John Starkey (23 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

Hi Tom,just read all about  your algae probs in this setup,i can,t think of anything to suggest apart from the extra water changes, do you use easy carbo ?

john.


----------



## Tom (23 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

I use the Aquaessentials version which was cheaper but the same dose as Easy Carbo (slightly stronger solution than Excel if I remember right) I'm back up to 2ml daily anyway, alongside nearly 2bps CO2. The AE carbon should be enough to run the tank on it's own, yet it still gets BBA. Will see if it continues or if that's enough to get rid of it. Hopefully it won't return once nuked. 

Tom


----------



## Tom (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

New shot from just now. That's 4 days with no horiffic algae growth. Improvement so far. Not sure what I did though. Recently I've just cleaned all the algae I could find, and dosed from every bottle I've got, including Spezial N. Lets try and keep it up! Shrimp are doing well too. If it stays like this it might be time to actually try and make it look nice again!


----------



## chump54 (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 23/04*

hey Tom, thats looking very good... well worth persevering with  

can you tell me what you've used as a stopper on the end of your spay bar please... I need a solution for mine 

Thanks 
Chris


----------



## Tom (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*

Thanks Chump, it's taking it's time getting there isn't it! Time to sort out the gravel soon I think, and put all the stones back in place. 

You'll have to ask bigmatt about the spray bar, he made it for me! It looks like a thin rod of acrylic that's glued in the end of the acrylic spray bar itself. When I bodged the one before, I used the end of a suction cup glued into an actual spray bar. It worked, but wasn't pretty.


----------



## bigmatt (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*

it's not glued, but you're pretty much right! The bar is very slightly bigger than the internal diameter of the tube. So i heat the tube, insert the bar and when it cools it's held in place without glue. In this way making spraybars is very much like making love to a beautiful woman ...


----------



## chump54 (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*

ha ha... brill thanks bigmatt


----------



## Tom (26 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> it's not glued, but you're pretty much right! The bar is very slightly bigger than the internal diameter of the tube. So i heat the tube, insert the bar and when it cools it's held in place without glue. In this way making spraybars is very much like making love to a beautiful woman ...




....except you don't wanna get stuck....


----------



## Tom (28 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*

Bit of a trim today. Got rid of pretty much all the tenellus with Staghorn on, and took the stems lower at the same time. The tops have been replanted to hopefully get more of a shape when it all grows back in. 

Looks quite good from a distance!!


----------



## B7fec (28 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - full shot 26/04*

Looking good....Well done on the fight against the algae, it finally looks like you might be onto a winner! Good luck with it mate!


----------



## Tom (28 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - trim time*

Let's hope so! Cheers. I read an old Tom Barr article yesterday too which has kind of changed my perspective on CO2. Things make a little bit more sense now, as I was wondering why I still got BBA and Staghorn even with 2bps CO2. Here's the link:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.ph ... en-with-EI?


----------



## B7fec (28 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - trim time*

Nice Link.....explains a lot really.


----------



## Tom (28 Apr 2011)

*Re: Tom's Mini M - trim time*

Yep, I've read it several times now!!


----------



## Tom (4 May 2011)

No improvement in diatoms yet (decided that's what the main brown-ness is now rather than deficiency), so out of interest I decided to get the test kit out. I preach inaccuracy as much as anyone else, but I'm sure they're good for a rough indication. 

Indicated no NH3 to speak of, but a reasonable amount of N02 which was interesting. If that's true, maybe the algae will start to hang back a bit soon. I then decided to have a look at the filter, which was considerably dirtier than this time last week so it got a thorough clean out along with the pipes. Then a 50% wc. Stems are beginning to show new leaves now after last week's trim.


----------



## Tom (5 May 2011)

Tank is now fully EI, and I've trimmed all the tenellus back to the base. I made a right mess of it and uprooted stuff, so had to do a 70% water change afterwards and gave it the first dose of NPK. Micros will be in the form of TPN, and will be dosed tomorrow. Then the following day I will do another water change followed by NPK. 

I got my 1-2-grow E. parvula too, and it is brilliant stuff. I don't know why all plants aren't grown like that! So easy to use and good portions.


----------



## bigmatt (5 May 2011)

loving the 1 2 grow - it's belting stuff and so much easier to work with not having to pick frickin' rock wool off before you start! I didn't think TPN contained micros? M


----------



## Tom (5 May 2011)

TPN is just Micros  Not sure how much to dose though for EI level - any thoughts?


----------



## bigmatt (5 May 2011)

ah! I thought it was just Macros - thanks for the education! Matt


----------



## Tom (5 May 2011)

TPN+ has macros as well, TPN is just micros


----------



## Johno2090 (5 May 2011)

Wait I thought TPN was just micro and TPN+ was just macro's or was it the other way round?


----------



## Tom (6 May 2011)

As far as I know, TPN+ is TPN plus Macros. 

Quick shot from this morning with the tenellus trimmed. I just hope it grows back! The stems are just starting to grow back in from their hacking. It's quite hard to find an angle to shoot from that doesn't look terrible!!


----------



## gmartins (6 May 2011)

hey Tom,

despite all the trouble, I think you a fine little tank and it does look very nice

GM


----------



## George Farmer (6 May 2011)

Johno2090 said:
			
		

> Wait I thought TPN was just micro and TPN+ was just macro's or was it the other way round?


TPN+ is TPN with added sources of nitrogen and phosphorous.  TPN+ is a comprehensive all-in-one fertiliser.

Apart from the added N and P, they are almost identical.

Both also contain K and Mg macronutrients.

Some like to dose TPN and TPN+ alternately.  I don't understand the science behind it, but the results can be better than dosing TPN+ alone.  

If you are really interested then you may get an explanation from Troels Andersen at Tropica, by emailing him.  tra@tropica.dk


----------



## Tom (6 May 2011)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Some like to dose TPN and TPN+ alternately.  I don't understand the science behind it, but the results can be better than dosing TPN+ alone.



Graeme (I think it was) recommended I try dosing both of them a while ago but I dosed them on the same day, not alternately.


----------



## Tom (7 May 2011)

Playing with hardscape for the next layout... Might be a while yet at this rate.


----------



## NeilW (8 May 2011)

I like the cunning use of the cardboard box from the tank so its the same size   

Nice rock formation too.


----------



## Tom (8 May 2011)

Thanks - I'm thinking about using a lot of Crypts in the next layout, so I'm not sure yet how that will go with this formation. It is a fair way off yet anyway, so things will probably change before then. It's not as flat as it looks in that photo, and plants (moss, pinnatifida) can be planted in and around in gaps. There could be 2-5" at the back as well for Crypts and stems. I want it to be more simple than the current layout too, and easier to maintain. 

I've decided to put the frosted perspex over the top of the tank to diffuse the light slightly. I don't have the option of lowering the wattage, so hopefully this will allow me to finally get rid of the rest of the algae issues. I noticed a new bit of Spiro/Rhizo in the HC earlier.


----------



## nayr88 (8 May 2011)

nice mate, i like the sand, but a few more smaller bits of rocks infront of the main ones would add some depth for sure looks abit flat and wall like, just my opinion though.


----------



## Tom (8 May 2011)

It shouldn't when it's on some sloping Aquasoil and all planted up.


----------



## nayr88 (8 May 2011)

fair play, i still think itll look abit like a wall of rock, but its your call and considering past tanks im sure yourll proove me wrong haha are you going have any moss patches on the rock? i like the look when you done that before

have you givern this current scape a time line?


----------



## Tom (8 May 2011)

The plants I'm planning would almost engulf the rock, and the taller pieces would stick through the top so it won't look flat. Crypts would wrap round and over, and the moss would highlight the depth of the rocks. 

There's no time line on this scape. I want to run it till it's done or dead end. At the moment it could still work, it's just a case of finally getting rid of the algae. I'm gonna move the tank next time so it gets no natural light at all, lower the lighting, no dry start, and dose EI from day one.


----------



## Gill (8 May 2011)

That rock is VV nice, I think that the upper sections should be clear of plants as you have stated. The contrast between the left and right is great and will look great peaking out of well placed crypts.


----------



## Tom (18 May 2011)

Rhizo is back in full force.


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## bigmatt (18 May 2011)

bugger.


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## Tom (9 Jun 2011)

Good News!!

After a week of no dosing and an unknown period of no CO2, the tank is actually doing rather well. I've decided from now I'm dropping the EI N and P and just dosing traces. Diatoms are completely gone and I am just left with a bit of BBA from the lack of CO2. Not even that much of it though, and it's all been nuked with AE Carbon which is doing it's job. Gave it all a mega trim too, so hopefully the good results will continue as it grows back in.


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## Tom (15 Jun 2011)

Today - I think the blue background sets it off better, minus the plugs!









Tom


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## Tom (17 Jun 2011)

Just thought I'd make a list of things I've learned/re-learned from this tank. There will probably be more to add....:

-When diatoms appear, don’t panic! They'll go on their own.
-Don’t increase the light if there is still algae present!
-Don’t add EI when there is still algae!
-Don’t place wood and rocks too close to the front of the tank.
-CO2 consistency is just as important as concentration, if not more important. 
-Don’t bother with dry start next time. 
-Leave more room for stems at the back. 
-Prune stems lower. 
-Shrimp make a right mess of an Aquasoil/light sand combination!
-Get check valves that work. 
-Amano Shrimp are suicidal.
-Tap water is fine.
-Spiky moss doesn’t attach, so don’t expect it to creep up wood! 
-Stick to the original plan if possible – don’t impulse buy plants you don’t really need, then make a mess of planting them!
-1-2-Grow plants are awesome. 
-Don’t angle wood forwards, as it casts too much shadow on the underside – bad for photos. 
-I’ve noticed no difference using ADA Green Gain. 
-Don’t look too far into chemistry you don’t understand – you overthink things, get paranoid and bugger it up. 
-Pipe cleaners from art shops are great for glass pipes.


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## Zerocon (19 Jun 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Just thought I'd make a list of things I've learned/re-learned from this tank. There will probably be more to add....:
> 
> 
> -Stick to the original plan if possible – don’t impulse buy plants you don’t really need, then make a mess of planting them!



EXACTLY the way I am now feeling!


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## George Farmer (19 Jun 2011)

Great list of lessons learnt, Tom.  It's posts like these that make journals so worthwhile.

Thanks for sharing.


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## Tom (1 Jul 2011)

Well the diatoms are now back on the plants - not hardscape or glass. The went completely when I dropped EI and went back to ADA only, but now the staurogyne is brown again. The lower stems have gone dark again, and anything below the top node of HC looks dark green and crap. It's also very leggy. Shouldn't be any problems with CO2 or distribution. I'm ready to rip it out. Anything I read about diatoms says they will rub off, but this won't. It's like the leaf itself is brown and it's been there for months. The only thing doing well is the moss now.
I was going to finish the scape after this last trimming of the stems, but some have grown fast, some slow, and some not at all so it's a right mess. Some leaves are big, some small.


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## dw1305 (1 Jul 2011)

Hi all,
I'd try feeding the plants again, it doesn't need to be back to the full EI programme, but I'd try adding some macros (NPK and Mg) for a time and see what happens. 

cheers Darrel


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## Garuf (1 Jul 2011)

I had sporadic diatoms recently, as soon as I started aerating the tank overnight they went within a week, A 3 day black out will help as a general rule but it's a big step.


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## Tom (12 Jul 2011)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> I'd try feeding the plants again, it doesn't need to be back to the full EI programme, but I'd try adding some macros (NPK and Mg) for a time and see what happens.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Since starting adding NPK again, that's when the diatoms have been back. I haven't changed anything else in the tank in that time except CO2 (ran out). Still have the constant non-rubb-off-able diatoms on all stems below the top node, plus now stringy diatoms again on wood. 

I'm surprised I've still kept this tank going, but I'm starting to think it must be the wood that's causing the problem, and maybe rotting. I can't think of anything else that should be leaching ammonia, and my filtration should be well over-adequate. The fact that the stringy diatoms only appear on the wood to start with might support that, but then it does tend to spread over everything. I daren't rip it out though, even with another ADA setup sitting next to it!

It's just why the plants (stems and HC - moss is great for once!) are so dull in colour even with full EI. 

Tom


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## Tom (12 Jul 2011)

Tom said:
			
		

> Still have the constant non-rubb-off-able diatoms on all stems below the top node



Saying that, it's the same in both tanks :/


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## Tom (14 Jul 2011)

Might this be a cause? Just lifted the wood...


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## clonitza (15 Jul 2011)

That's a lot of dirt there mate , siphon it and let the scape recover and don't use the wood for a while.
That should have been in your filter not in the tank . Sorry to see that you still have problems with your tank.

LE: Now I see that you re-scaped the tank. Good luck with the new one.


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## Tom (15 Jul 2011)

Yep, I was surprised as I thought I'd plugged the hole with Aquasoil. It was all under the moss stones too. 

Tank's all finished now, and re-scaped. 

Tom


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## Iain Sutherland (25 Feb 2012)

Good thread Tom, think every reader will have learnt something, interesting read. That really looks like decomposing wood...
Best lessons are learnt from failure!


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