# London Riots



## twg

I'm literally speechless watching all this unfold.

Do any other members live in London or surrounding areas?

What's going on?!

The worlds gone mad!


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## Iain Sutherland

im in Cambridge but equally as disgusted by what im watching.
On the news it tlooks like every bored hoodie kid has poured into london to see what they can loot!
Should be open season for rubber bullets if you ask me!!


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## ghostsword

easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> im in Cambridge but equally as disgusted by what im watching.
> On the news it tlooks like every bored hoodie kid has poured into london to see what they can loot!
> Should be open season for rubber bullets if you ask me!!




That is exactly what is happening, the loosers are just out for looting, even people that walk by are looting. The police is too powerless to do something.


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## nayr88

There should be soldiers on the streets with rubber bullets

Hopefully my dads shop that me my brother and him have poured our last year into working all hours and not taking a wage will still be there.

Going to be a sleepless night for me as I've seen a video of people looting in Romford


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## twg

These people really are the scum of the earth.

It's heartbreaking watching such mindless violence unfold with absolutely no reason behind it. Just watching on tv makes you incredibly sad and angry. 

I hear the government has called an emergency meeting tomorrow and it'll be interesting to see what approach they take. Surely the time has come for a more robust response?

The Americans wouldn't stand for this that's for sure! I read they shoot looters on the spot. 

Sounds good to me!


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## GreenNeedle

Whats worse is Ken Livingstone on every channel he can get on trying to make political points over it!!!

There's no comparison here between the eighties riots.  They were over an issue.  this is just people having 'fun' and jumping on the back of an issue for their own 'enjoyment'.

I hope the CCTV goes into overdrive.

The only person I heard a 'real' reason behind the bahaviour was on Newsnight saying it was because kids these days have no morals, to many rights etc and no understanding of right and wrong.  Of course many do but the majority don't.

Shameless behaviour and should be stamped on fully.

All of those who can be identified as being involved in setitng fire to buildings should be in court for attempted murder!!!

More to the point. It is all youths and kids.  What on earth are the parents doing?  Why are kids on the street doing this?  I'm only 36 but I wasn't out on the streets at night when I was 13,14,15,16.  If I were I was in big trouble when I got home.  In this day when for some reason parents buy their kids mobile phones this should not be a problem.

Andy


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## twg

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> All of those who can be identified as being involved in setitng fire to buildings should be in court for attempted murder!!!



100% agree.

It's a miracle nobody has lost their life already.


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## Jim

Watching this unfold on Australian television it's hard to believe this is happening in London.


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## Eboeagles

All we can hear are sirens! Nothing round here to loot though first time I feel lucky to live on a crap area!!! But hearing ladbroke grove where I work 10 mins away is pretty bad! Pubs & restaurants ruined. Watching on tv where are these kids parents?


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## Eboeagles

This seems like the most up to date thing I can find talking to friends

http://thewestlondoner.wordpress.com/20 ... s-tonight/


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## Sentral

Thanks for the link, it's good to stay informed. I can't even understand why this has been allowed to go this far. What are the police doing? Get the army in, tear gas and water cannons. Then castrate the lot of them.


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## GreenNeedle

Lol.  You would need Thatcher back for the above to be put into action and there is no doubt she would have done it.  A lot earlier than now!!!

Health and safety has a lot to do with why the police can't do much at the moment.

One solution would be to cut the power, then all the parents 'playstations' would turn off and they may notice the time and then wonder where their kids are.

Andy


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## plantbrain

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> It's the banker's fault. Or the government... Or Margaret Thatcher.



Sounds like the USA

Or yesterday in South Sacramento. But the kids here have guns and we do not use rubber bullets.

Yes, we shoot looters and robbers. Some folks shoot themselves. Guns and ammo, that is all we export and make in the USA anymore.

An old saying, "an idle mind is an evil mind", that is the case in many of these regions. Never mess with a cop, they will likely shoot you first, ask questions later, only a stupid idiot would mess and challenge them. I blame the victim here, not the cops. It takes two.....but.........I'll always lose in the end if anything goes wrong.

It's like arguing with a super tanker and you are 3 meter boat about who's going through the canal first. 
The Transit police shot an unarmed guy here in Oakland,CA they pulled the same type of crap. Did not last or get this bad, but riots are not about justice.


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## GreenNeedle

The 'justice part' is what was being used an excuse Tom.  There was a peaceful protest outisde a police station.  when no senior police came out the protestors decided to give up.  People jumped on the bandwagon and decided to hijack the cause.  Now its spiralled and while the London kids started rioting and looting, now Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool have jumped on the copycat wagon too.

If it spirals further there might be reports of a couple of kids in Lincoln Ringing doorbells and running away.  Makes me glad to live in a quiet area!!!  The wife always moans and wants to move to a bigger city but that ain't gonna happen.

Andy


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## Sorgan

My sisters fella lives just outside Croydon, he said last night looked like an apocalyptic seen from his widow. Fires and mobs running around. Last time I spoke to him he was going to barricade the door...

Not what you expect to do on a Monday evening.


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## dory

Absolute insanity has taken over the country and it's spreading fast. Now that it has reached Birmingham, I don't think there will be an obstacle for it to spread through the Midlands.

Yet I wonder why all the country's leaders have decided to cut their holidays short just yesterday or today? That's not very good handling of the situation. And no statements have been made yet, have they?

The police are also massively understaffed to handle such a big outbreak. I'm actually getting really worried, as I live in the Midlands and we don't know what's gonna happen. I think rubber bullets and gas are the way to go, that's what they do in most countries, isn't it?


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## Radik

And the worst those chipmunks people striping other people naked mostly white. F...g monkeys. They think they own the earth now. My blood is boiling. Where I can buy Gun now for protection? Police is helpless totally and telling those scums they can get away with anything.


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## Steve Smith

It's crazy.  A lot of videos floating about.  It kicked off in Birmingham last night too.  I was watching a thread on a London based forum that I use, watching people posting about what's going on right outside their homes; fires, vandalism, looting... Scary stuff.


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## cichlidfam

The uk needs to chill, it started in manchester last night.


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## Radik

The UK needs Hobo with a shotgun.


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## Alastair

I can't see why they can't get all our soldiers back from where they are and sort our own country out instead of trying to deal with every other countries problems. 
What is so difficult to allow police to use what ever force necessary.,this countries to up it's own backside when it comes to human rights and what we can and can't do. But hey what does the government care, it's not their livelyihood being smashed to pieces, looted and set on fire. They get paid for sitting in a room debating for hours.  If it had been me, it would definitely have been rubber bullet time, gas and grab all the little squirts that they can and slam them infront of the courts. Saying that, with how our justice system works they'd be given a slap on the wrist and back on the streets in a matter of days.


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## nayr88

Even if there worried about using too much force, why does that mean we have to go to the complete other end of the spectrum and be fragile.

What about a water canon type thing that when people are looting the police drive past and hose everyone down, BUT!! with an ink like on the securicar boxs that last for a few days. That way it's not heavy handed, anyone that gets inked will stay in for the next few days, or risk leaving the house and getting nicked on the spot.


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## ghostsword

In East Ham they robbed Primark, in Beckton they robbed large Tescos and sold TV's and laptops outside for £20, in Canning Town they robbed McDonnalds, in Plaistow they robbed a school, and in Upton Park they got beaten down in Green Street, one killed, they tried to burn down the Boleyn Pub, next to West Ham football ground.

Sadly, where was the police? I think that they are overstretched, and maybe afraid to use force.


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## LondonDragon

If the police use force they will take it as an incentive to create more riots, if the police use little force they are useless and powerless. I blame parents for letting their kids out of their sight and teaching them no morals.

All this youtube/social networking culture that have been growing with kids posting videos of doing silly stuff cause its trendy doesn't help either.

I live not far from Brixton and on Sunday night there was looting, fighting, shops set on fire, lucky enough my street doesn't have any major stores, just a few pubs, restaurants and local corner shops, the only place that was vandalised was the local betting shop.

If this was in Portugal they would be shot with rubber bullets to start with, like some Man U fans found out when they tried to cause trouble in a Champions League game in Porto a few years back!


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## ghostsword

It really is sad. 

In Green Street people are organising themselves to protect the shops and the community, and so far things are getting back to normal. A couple rioters were arrested, but there is now a vigilante mentality on this side of London and even suspects are being beaten up.


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## Radik

Those affected should not pay a penny in taxes as state failed to protect them.


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## ghostsword

Radik said:
			
		

> Those affected should not pay a penny in taxes as state failed to protect them.



That is the feel, as police deserted the area the residents started to patrol the streets in groups. I was up till 3am last night, with neighbours. As I live near green street, if a fire is set on the shops it would soon spread.

The mob was stopped in Canning Town, the police acted bravely, but there are not enough of them.

It is shocking.


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## Gill

The situation is so out of hand. And Why they won't call in the army is beyond me. The police have no power in this country. 
Was watching the news till midnight and following people's posts online.
Trying to get thru to relatives that live in some of the affected areas, but lines are busy.
One of my cousins live in Ealing and was saying walking thru the streets this morning was worrying (on FB). She has kept my nephews home from school until the situation becomes less violent. 
My Aunt lives in Perry Bar in Birmingham, and she is Very close to one of the shopping centres hit there.


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## Gill

Just speaking to my aunt in Perry Barr, and the Onestop Shopping Centre has been completely looted. 
Older Cousin + Neices were caught up in the Hippodrome in Birmingham, and had to wait for the police to escort them out of the building safely back to their cars.


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## nayr88

It seems this is the approach

Well.... They all tucker them selves out eventually..
And until they do we will just condem what thu are doing
Some posh melt saying what going on is wron isn't going to pull on old mr.looters hearts strings as he 
Carries a plasma out of privately owned television or computer store.


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## Gill

Just reading the Coventry Telegraph and Jubilee Crescent in Radford has had some shops Looted. 

From Coventry Telegraph


> Windows were smashed at the PDSA, BGBet.com and the Murco petrol station in Jubilee Crescent at about midnight last night.
> 
> Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/c ... z1UXBSnzje


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## Alastair

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> I thimk it's time to admit that the social experiment that is moden day britain, is a failure.



Hear hear!


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## Steve Smith

There's a lot of information here which is constantly being updated as things unfold, as well as a lot of discussion.  Might be useful for any Londoners here:

https://www.lfgss.com/thread13146-148.html

A lot of clued up people.


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## Fred Dulley

Blood boils over this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424


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## ghostsword

Didn't they had a preparedness plan to deal with zombies? Why not use it for this?


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## ghostsword

Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Blood boils over this.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424



They should have been jailed on the spot.


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## a1Matt

twg said:
			
		

> Do any other members live in London or surrounding areas?



I live in SE9 (London\Kent border).

from my own observations... 
First I knew of it was when I went to get on a bus last night and it was only running a half route.
Then I noticed teens prowling close to my house looking for trouble (I see this from time to time, usually towards end of summer holidays when they are bored).
So I went back home to safety.

Today there are a few burnt out cars and the like quite close to my home (I see this from time to time too).
There are lots of shops with the shutters rolled down tight today.
Been looking at pics on camera phones that my neighbours took of the Primark in the local high street ablaze.
So I googled it and read a report (source below) that says there was organised looting of Bromley high street last night.

Also, drove through Croydon today and they still had roadblocks up while they were containing fires.  Lots of people in the street milling around clearly in shock.

http://www.bromleytimes.co.uk/bromley-l ... d_1_989133

http://www.bromleytimes.co.uk/bromley-l ... e_1_989048


Was going out shortly, but I think I will stay home tonight too.


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## Matt Warner

Looks like its all kicking off again tonight! Why don't these yobbish inberseals get a hobby and do something constructive with their lives. Maybe fish and plant keeping?!


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## Sentral

It's just disgusting, waiting to see what happens tonight. Even we closed early (in Bristol, and in a mall!)



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> There's a lot of information here which is constantly being updated as things unfold, as well as a lot of discussion.  Might be useful for any Londoners here:
> 
> https://www.lfgss.com/thread13146-148.html
> 
> A lot of clued up people.



Cheers for that. Do you ride?


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## Alastair

Started here in Manchester now too.....they all think its a game


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## ghostsword

Alastair said:
			
		

> Started here in Manchester now too.....they all think its a game


Of course they think it is a game, the morons. Go out with your mates, get a laptop, iPod or iPad and then come home, easy and safe, the police just looks on.

Hopefully tonight they will get what they deserve, at minimum a beating.


---
- .


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## Alastair

I think they should get a beating for it. I was watching the news of the yobs throwing stones etc at the riot police laughing their heads off. Would be a different story had it been their families business that had been burnt to the ground etc. But saying that the parents of a lot of these have probably been sat on their back sides too watching their lives pass by.,


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## GHNelson

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> It's the banker's fault. Or the government... Or Margaret Thatcher.


Even before that
Ted Heath 
hoggie


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## tyrophagus

I'm surprised at how many rioters wear ADIDAS track suits!  I think these people are scum.  I also think this reflects how sick a large part of our society has become.  It's not about politics, race or money.  It's about a lack of empathy towards our neighbours.


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## cichlidfam

Today I am ashamed to be called a salfordian and mancunian.


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## nayr88

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html
Surely this guy is going to get knicked. What an absolute ****


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## plantbrain

There's plenty of folks with guns here, getting away without getting shot would be tough in the USA. Flask mobs maybe due to the speed, but not on going.........The Rodney King stuff really pissed off a lot of people on both sides in LA........same type of stuff. 

I have to wonder though, why the UK and many places in Europe do not allow guns other than the Police, seems like a hold over from the old days when the Lords would not allow the serfs to own weapons, easy to control an unarmed mob with weapons.

Seems a basic right: to defend life and property.
You folks have pepper spray, bow and arrow, skunk-in-a-can??? Cars also work well. 
Well, hope things settle down, maybe you can turn on the police and cut their wages and no#'s now? 
That's what they seem to wanna do in the USA, till something like this happens, then they want to have the police and complain about that, cannot have it both ways. When the sun is shining, everyone wants to say how we should cut their pay, no#'s and benefits.....same for fire.........till there's a riot or a fire or both..........

Now everyone wants them and a gun  

Well....... good luck. Hope things calm down.


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## plantbrain

nayr88 said:
			
		

> http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html
> Surely this guy is going to get knicked. What an absolute ****



They shut that link down fast


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## Ben M

tyrophagus said:
			
		

> I'm surprised at how many rioters wear ADIDAS track suits!



I think you've just watched the same news report as me lol. 

I just wish the police would use more force to get rid of them. Where are the water cannons and rubber bullets?


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## plantbrain

" Sales of baseball bats and police batons shot up more than 5,000 percent in the last 24 hours on Amazon's British website."

"Youth gangs were reported to be coordinating their movements though social networks -- particularly secure-access Blackberry Messenger groups -- and targeting shops."

Flash mobs.......great, you folks learn the same tricks they use here, then they run off.


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## Westyggx

Glad i got out of Manchester town centre early today, i only work down the road from it all!


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## nayr88

I think i got the link wrong, just changed it.

Today in my dads shop we didn't board the windows, we put a piece of wood the lengh of the window and about 600 deep infront of the window on the inside ...... We nailed varios size nails an screws through it and faced them up.

On the bus on the way home, a gang where saying how they had enough of being bullied by police and this is the uprise.....10 minutes later they laughed at how one of the members 'runs like an ape, on his knuckles and feet when his about to rob someone, like last year the kid He did it to then jumped on him and bit his neck'. 

So his justifies this crap by sayininf his race are hated for no reason, yet in the next breath jokes about robbing people and biting them?


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## cichlidfam

Westyggx said:
			
		

> Glad i got out of Manchester town centre early today, i only work down the road from it all!



I live in the area its happening, no sleep for me tonight


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## Westyggx

Where abouts mate?


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## cichlidfam

Salford mate, I work near hope hospital aswell, all the garages were getting closed when I finished my shift before


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## hotweldfire

I work in youth justice research and only have one thing to say.

Parenting.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


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## Jim

It''s getting hard for me to understand this now.

Why aren't the cops cracking heads? Why haven't they taken control of the streets back? Do they have to operate with one hand tied behind their backs over there because of political correctness or something??

Surely if they were given the green light they could get these scumbugs under control mighty fast.


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## twg

I'm stunned how this has spread across the UK.

Just proves how diseased small pockets of our society are!


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## nayr88

Yes they are worried that they (cops) will be held accountable if a looter is injured.

Much like the decent cop that landed a chest shot on a guy with a gun, people are demanding he gets sent to court!!!
well why did he have a gun? To scare  intimidate and make any criminal activity an easier process with less chance of someone putting up a fight or saying no to him.

My Heart goes out to his family, but you can't condone him having a gun, and being videos for music videos making gun gestures...

A good saying 

Live by the sword die by the sword.


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## plantbrain

Cops are trying to minimize destruction but also protect themselves, if they start cracking heads, then they have the crowd turn on them. If they shoot and kill a few, then they get blamed, they are not in an easy spot.

Now if a crowd of angry normal folks got the pitch forks and torches......then went after them, then there'd be mayhem. 

So it's a tough spot to be in. Crowd control is not the easiest thing.  
They will nab the really bad actor once in awhile if it's easy or particularly harmful. 
They shot a few folks in the 1960'-1970's here, it did not end well for all sides.
I remember watching the US military come onto the campus where my father worked. 
Detroit? They had the elite Army division sent in there. 

It was crazy. 

Shop owners however are well thought of if they shoot a thug.  But not cops, they do not like to do that, it's their biggest fear: they have to shoot or be killed, never a good scene. Shop owner is simply defending his turf. Quite a  few have guns here. 

And we have a shooting about once a week here in Sacramento CA, same in Oakland and certainly the case in LA. You'll die in car more likely though. Thugs shoot each other mostly, not the rest of the folks, but stray bullets do kill a few innocents every year. I was amazed we did not have a shooting this year at the State Fair. It's weird for us in the USA to watch this in the UK.


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## Alastair

Jim said:
			
		

> It''s getting hard for me to understand this now.
> 
> Why aren't the cops cracking heads? Why haven't they taken control of the streets back? Do they have to operate with one hand tied behind their backs over there because of political correctness or something??
> 
> Surely if they were given the green light they could get these scumbugs under control mighty fast.



Yes they do over here these days, if too much force is used then questions are asked and allegations start and people try then to put in a claim that they've been mis handled. This country has become to obsessed with human rights and what's not allowed. That's the reason why our  force has lost the respect in the eyes of all these teeny boppers running round the streets.
When I was a kid we got the punishment we deserved off the police. If that happened these days they'd be struck off. It's a joke. Give them back what ever force they want I say. That would soon change things.


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## Alastair

And personally I think all our police officers should be given the right to a firearm.


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## Jim

Alastair said:
			
		

> And personally I think all our police officers should be given the right to a firearm.




It's amazing that your general duties officers aren't armed.

Between '84 and '95 we had 69 fatal police shootings across Australia and considering that we only have a population of 20 million thats pretty high.

In the last couple of years all our police forces across Australia have seen the introduction of Tazers (as well as the introduction of Glock autos to replace S&W Model 10 .38 specials) and this has led to a small reduction in the number shootings.


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## ghostsword

plantbrain said:
			
		

> Now if a crowd of angry normal folks got the pitch forks and torches......then went after them, then there'd be mayhem.
> .



That has happened in Upton Park, Canning Town and Southall, those are the spots I know. We, the community, did patrols and stand in front of critical areas. 

In Southall it was the local Sikh temple, and in Upton Park it was the local church, as people tried to loot it and set it on fire. 

Sad times we are seeing to.


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## Kosh42-EFG

Trying to control a demonstration at the G20 summit, the police push a man to the ground who later dies. Police get flack from all sides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7989027.stm

Two weeks after a simultaneous attacks on London's transport network a man wearing a heavy jacket in the height of summer who is mistaken for a terrorist ignores police instruction and is shot. Police take flack from all sides: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8286789.stm

A man with a live, not replica, gun is shot by police. Even though he didn't fire at them, the police " discharged their weapons in the belief there was a threat to human life." Police take flack from all sides: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

And now everyone is up in arms that the police aren't cracking the heads of these violent thugs. You can't have it both ways...


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## ghostsword

That is true, it is hard for the police in the UK. On most countries, for bad or worse, they are free to use their discretion. Also, the large majority of the population has learnt to respect the police. In Portugal, as most people have been to the army, there is a big support for the police, as most have old colleagues, friends or family on the police force. 

The Police here are not respected, by old and new, and frankly I do not know why they bother to even join the force, badly paid, bad conditions and always in trouble.


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## spyder

Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The police should be allowed to use more force without social media repercussions. It's crazy. On saying this though I did see some clips from Manchester where they actually started using their batons around the back of the knees.   

The one thing I think holds quite true is, you don't know how many of the looters, rioters, er moron's are actually carrying firearms. If the police started firing rubber bullets around the place it takes 1 moron to start firing back then you could have a right situation.

The other thing that gets up my nose is some of those that are charged, get sent to overcrowded prisons which are funded by, yes, you and me the taxpayer. We'll pick up the bill for the fines that some will get off with because they will pay from their giro's or not at all.

This country needs to get it's prison system in check. Forget nice warm cushy cells, TV's, pool tables and comfy beds. A large compound with a large electrified perimiter fence, armed guards and give them a tent and a bucket! That would be a lot less strain on the taxpayer.


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## Fred Dulley

Azkaban stylee


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## ghostsword

Yes, the prisons may be too cushy. 

As a young chap I always kept away from trouble for three reasons:
- afraid of my dad finding out 
- afraid of the police and my dad finding out (he was a sargent at the police)
- afraid of going to jail

Now on these times the kids do not care, going to prison is cool, their dad's cannot give them a belting, and the police has bigger issues to worry about.


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## Garuf

I think a lot of this is recognisable as the downfall of consumerism greed, a lot of these people aren't rioting for a higher purpose, they're simply young, angry and craving commodities they cannot normally get, they see it as an easy opportunity to take what they want. What may have started off as community unrest has soon been overtaken by youths who have seen an opportunity which perceivably carries no or little risk compared to their desire for designer commodities. The other thing I recognise in this crowd is people are too quick to call it mindless, going out purposefully to steal isn't mindlessness, the other thing is a clear cultural issue, there seems to be a culture in which glorification of violence has proliferated unabated and those who criticise it chastised as being Mary Whitehouse sorts, the gangs underbelly has taken this on and we're left where people running about with Guns and Knifes is something that culturally we're not shocked by and the cultures in which it happens have taken on an anti-establishment mentality where anyone who wants to stop their selfish nihilistic behaviour is the enemy and they believe that those who wish to uphold the law and stop them from acting this way are open to their perception of acceptable behaviour, a community in up-roar because *a gang member, carrying a gun, with intent to kill and harm, to act outside the law is shot dead after an attempted murder* is not a culture that deserves to exist, continue or proliferate.


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## Steve Smith

Sentral said:
			
		

> It's just disgusting, waiting to see what happens tonight. Even we closed early (in Bristol, and in a mall!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SteveUK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a lot of information here which is constantly being updated as things unfold, as well as a lot of discussion.  Might be useful for any Londoners here:
> 
> https://www.lfgss.com/thread13146-148.html
> 
> A lot of clued up people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers for that. Do you ride?
Click to expand...


Yep, yourself? My ride


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## LondonDragon

Kosh42-EFG said:
			
		

> And now everyone is up in arms that the police aren't cracking the heads of these violent thugs. You can't have it both ways...


Totally agreed, police cracking open heads would just incentive more riots and have these thugs justifying them. What they should have done is lock them up for a day or two and then get them to clean up the mess they made in the first place, and a few more hours of community service then they would have something to do.


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## GreenNeedle

It is in the main very political.  The last generation (25 years or so) have become so free from reality because 'children' have so many rights these days.  they are basically untouchable.

Its not so much just the kids but more the whole of the generation which is so materialistic that nothing else matters.

The nanny state and political correctness in this country now means that anything other than a slap on the bum is outlawed.  This may sound like it will help stop child abuse but those who would abuse a child will still abuse a child, whilst those who would give a 'clip round the ear' or a slap on the bum now don't dare.

Couple that with the parents of this generation who will not work for less than '£X' and hour because it isn't worth it.  Then complain about 'foreigners' stealing their jobs.  It is a contradiction.  The 'foreigners' are taking the jobs that the English were refusing to take because it fell beneath their '£x' requirement.

Why do they have '£x' requirement?  because these days they must have the instant beautiful house.  They have the whole electrics kaboodle in, with games consoles, multiple tellys, every gadget going and £30+ monthly mobile phones.

Then we hear how they are struggling to survive because of the 'cost of living'.

30 years ago council estates didn't have that many cars on them.  These days there are loads of brand new cars on them.  That is a huge 'cost of living' for a demographic that used to work on the land, or building sites, or factories where they got subsidised transport to and from work.  These days they won't do that work.  Can't pay for the car doing that work as well as keep their electrical harem going.

Then we have the last government who threw money at all in the form of tax credits.  This was all well and good but it escalated as time went on to buy votes.  Even people earning 50k were getting them towards the end.  We are now at a stage where all the political parties consider less than £30,000 a year to be poor.  They say it, everyone believes it and therefore everyone is poor 

Then we have the 'poverty' gauge where if your energy bills are 10% or more then you are in poverty.  Lets get real about this.  If you are that poor you should be prioritising things.  What is that 10% comparable to 30 years ago?  I would suggest they should not be talking about £ but usage if they want to get this statement clearer.  If foolish people who cannot see the wood through the trees choose to have absolute kaboodles of electrics running all day, have every light on in the house throughout the whole dark period and the CH running while they stand with the front door open all day (yes I live on a council street and this is pretty true of most at least on this street) then they are no in poverty.  They are idiots who are throwing their own (or in many cases someone else's) money down the drain.

Never mind how the cuts affect them, or how hard done by they are, or how foreigners are taking their jobs, or how there are no prospects for them.  Take a lesson from the previous generations who demonstrated about real issues whilst at the same time, tightening their belts.

As to the young girl who suggested that adults don't respect the youth and until they did the youth wouldn't respect adults.  Wake up dear.  The problem is we have given too much respect to youth and now we are paying the price for it because youth does not understand what respect is.  They don't understand it is earnt and they don't understand it is a 2 way thing.

In essence.  Its not labour's fault.  It is the whole political system's fault.  Through political correctness, the nanny state, human rights and the sue/blame culture we now cannot do anything for ourselves, we now cannot be trusted to think, we cannot say what we think because it may offend someone.  We cannot suggest some of society are bad parents because we are not in a thinktank that is the only place that 'really knows' what the problem is.

This all needs to change because 30 years ago there was bullying, there were thugs, louts et al. But not on the scale of these days and those thugs and louts only needed an adult or 2 to tell them to 'clear awf' and they did.  These days would you dare to tell athem to 'clear awf'?  A policeman would walk on his own even on the estates and the kids would respect them.

Its about time the prisons were made prisons.  That benefits were vouchers only to spent on neccessities and for bailiffs to go to those on long term benefits and take possessions to go towards the cost of those benefits.  Then maybe some people would get back to reality and learn you have to work to get more chances, they do not fall on your lap, You have to earn respect, it isn't a given right, and you have to have morals to be considered an equal to the rest of us.

Andy


----------



## Nelson

.

i don't normally agree with you,but you're spot on here   .


----------



## Nelson




----------



## Kosh42-EFG

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> ...lot's of things...



Pretty spot on with every point... Well said...


----------



## Jase

Andy, please put that in letter form and post it to; 

David Cameron
Prime Minister
10 Downing Street
London
SW1A 2AA


----------



## greenjar

Andy,

Agree with all the above....well written and thanks for sharing your thoughts

I did see that little interview with the girl you mention.  That rant of hers alone left me speechless.....what can a person say or do to change that kind of attitude huh?



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> As to the young girl who suggested that adults don't respect the youth and until they did the youth wouldn't respect adults.  Wake up dear.  The problem is we have given too much respect to youth and now we are paying the price for it because youth does not understand what respect is.  They don't understand it is earnt and they don't understand it is a 2 way thing.


----------



## wearsbunnyslippers

6 shots were fired in london last night, all missed. police are searching for fernando torres...


----------



## GreenNeedle

Jase said:
			
		

> Andy, please put that in letter form and post it to;
> 
> David Cameron
> Prime Minister
> 10 Downing Street
> London
> SW1A 2AA



I don't think we need to do that.  If you listen to yesterdays statement outside 10 downing street I think he (speaking for all politicians) is finally able to start speaking the obvious.

The problem is though that whilst all the politicians have been very scared to talk about these issues for fear of losing votes, they will be very tentative to how far they can actually retrieve things.  This attitude is a world problem not UK.  By that I of course mean in the so called 'developed' world.

To clarify that I mean that where our parents were chuffed to bits to be able to buy a good house on a good street even if it meant no TV and no chairs and no redecorating the current generation are not happy with that.  Has to look as close to a show home within the first year (if that long.)

Maybe get me some flack but while lots of people are complaining about reckless banks costing them money they forget that those reckless banks were lending money to those who could not wait to improve their lives.  Could not save up.  Had to have it now.  I'm not taking the blame away from the banks because they should not have been so reckless but we as the consumer were the ones that put pen to paper and took on the debts. Myself included.  Its taken me 4 years to get from 14k in debt to £1k in debt.  Never ever thinking about the easy way out of bankruptcy or the other thing what ever that is, can't remember it's initials.  I took on that debt.  I made myself struggle.  I made my family poor and whilst the recession and losing jobs didn't help matters I will sort out these problems for myself without running through the streets blaming everyone else and putting someone else in financial or emotional hardship.  We have a roof over our heads.  Superb credit record even though I have no job (I am a real job seeker, not a turn up fortnightly and make out I am)  My children do not starve and we have a reasonably nice decor.

Yes times are tough,  we live week to week mostly but no excuses.  I choose any luxuries and I do not consider those luxuries as a cost of living.  In fact to my wife's disgust I sold the car 2 months ago.  Was not a necessity even with a new baby born last week.

I would also say the next 'thinktank rep' or politician that tries to suggest this is something to do with funding either to youth centres, or deprived areas or anything similar I will tear my hair out.

Do they really think if a youth centre was open on these estates that these youths would choose to go to them?  There were youth centres when I and my father were youths but we didn't go to them.  They were boring.  In my day and in my dad's day there was not a huge difference to today.  We were young.  we attained beers and walked the streets.  We did naughty things.  We never disrespected elders though and we never caused grevious damage to anything or anyone.  We walked the streets with the 2 cans we had managed to get hold of.  We drank them peacefully with our friends and then tried to sneak back into the house without our parents smelling the berr on our breath.  I dare say we both took illicit substances too (although I can't vouch for my dad) but we did all this under the fear of our parents finding out.  Not fear of anything physical.  More a fear of feeling ashamed.  Of being told off.  It was because we respected our parents and all elders (that deserved respect.)

I well remember the times when a policeman would spot you and approach you and your friends on his own and question you on how you had attained the beer with no fear at all.  I well remember our sadness as he took each and every bottle or can from us and poored them down the drain in front of our eyes.  But we didn't even speak a bad word.  If we did we very quickly apologised and then mooched home.  That was because we respected authority.

So none of this is anything to do with young disaffected people.  This has everything to do with the loss of respect and loss of morals within society in general and Cameron was spot on yesterday when he said _'we haven't just got a broken society, there are pockets of our society that are sick'_

That was bang on and I would say most politicians from all sides (apart from Ken Livingstone) drew a huge sigh of relief within them that finally it has been said and may (although I doubt) we can forget this garbage of 'disaffected youth' and push the argument onto morals and discipline and respect.  If not then this is the forerunner of ever more increasing unrest and the more decades/generations it takes to retrieve this situation the harder it will be to return to it.

It wasn't a lost generation 20-30 years ago.  Most of them have respoect however those they label the lost generation may well be the parents who have brought up the real 'lost generation'.  that is those who are youths now and have lived through 2 decades of not knowing what discipline is.

Sorry guys, I know I'm ranting but I've been saying this for years.  I've been disgusted with it for years and I fear the worst for our country's future as once this 'blows over' I think the politicians will gloss over it all with 'youth policies' and even more benefits for the youth.  Its gonna cost us all (including me when I do get back to work) a lot of money to pay for wasted schemes that will have no effect whatsoever yet are hailed as life changing.

Can I just say yes I am on the dole at the mo, In my whole life this is week 17 on benefits having for the majority of 20 years either paid tax and Ni Myself (or as the last couple of years my wife.)  Not bad going seeing as I was made redundant twice in the nineties 

A sad and embarrassed patriot I am 
Andy


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## plantbrain

Kid's make mistakes, but sometimes they make some big ones, this was one of those times.

Mine knows they will get a beating and be forced to work in prison like conditions if ever caught.
And I know how to catch and look for evidence. 

I make sure it's a much easier path to do the right thing.

Bad parents, that's who you can blame a lot of it on. I sort of agree with child labor, if they are not in school, they best be doing homework, chores, or after school job, or working for me, or after school sports. I want them 110% busy and tired........all the time. 

That's a parent's job.

If they have time to hang out like these thugs.....that is the parent's fault.

I believe in child labor, they got time to get in this much trouble, they got time to work. Chain gang them and make them repair and fix everything for the next year.


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## plantbrain

> It is the whole political system's fault. Through political correctness, the nanny state, human rights and the sue/blame culture we now cannot do anything for ourselves, we now cannot be trusted to think, we cannot say what we think because it may offend someone. We cannot suggest some of society are bad parents because we are not in a thinktank that is the only place that 'really knows' what the problem is.



Now you sound like some of the people in the USA  

I think we can easily blame the parents of these kids and rightly so. This is about you and the kids, not what everyone else is doing. "Just because everyone else is out rioting, does not mean you can also mister!" 

Put them to work and keep them busy. Hard to get in trouble then.
The Rich have long done this to the Poor. 

Works too.

Also works if you are a parent and have bratty kid.

But the end result is better in the family, vs the Rich vs Poor adults.


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## Crispino Ramos

What's the cause of riots?  It could be poverty, hopelessness, inequality, racial bias, lack of education, ignorance of the current situation.


----------



## plantbrain

Kids without anything better to do.


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## Kosh42-EFG

Crispino Ramos said:
			
		

> What's the cause of riots?  It could be poverty, hopelessness, inequality, racial bias, lack of education, ignorance of the current situation.


People who want a new 42" TV and pair of designer trainers that thier dole (welfare) money won't stretch to, who also turn down jobs that are less that £x per hour in favour of watching trashy daytime TV drinking beer, while complaining foreigners (ie legal immigrants with a good work ethic who will accept the going rate of less that £x per hour) take all of the jobs.

Free market economy principles of you skive off at school, have no skills and therefore you will only ever get a low paid job seem to elude them. They were probably too busy making trouble when they taught that in the knowledge the teacher couldn't do anything about them, and their parents wouldn't cake about them getting a bad report card.

I lived in fear or a bad school report, my parents would have killed me!


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## Kosh42-EFG

If must be said, the seismic shift to the right in this country is putting East Anglia in serious danger of ending up below sea level...


----------



## Gill

Totally Agree with what Andy has said. 
I simply cannot believe the way in which some parents are bringing up their children with such attitudes. 
If we are out with the little one. And I see/hear a child of nursery age swearing/misbehaving - I Tell my son, you do not act like that as those children have no respect. And they have not been taught it by their parents. If you were to ever do that your mother would give you a right beating, like we were if we misbehaved or disrespected someone.  When saying this if the child's parents hear me - I do not blink an eye as they have bought it on themselves and they usually look sheepishly away. 
Today's youth have a We want it now attitude. And this is something My child will never have. If we can afford it we will get it. If not then NO, He cannot have it. 

I myself have been in/out of work for the last 15 years due to my numerous health issues. I have never liked claiming from the Government, but if they give the money. I will take it, as it helps keep us Afloat. I am constantly told by my Disability Personal Advisor that I am Extremely Lucky to come from such a good family who has always supported me, and are always there for me. 
My Mother is the only person in our household that is working and she is nearly 70. And she is still working Full Time 40hrs a week. Dad had to retire because his health was bad last year after another heart attack and having Bells Palsy(now Fully Recovered from). 
I respect my Mother alot as she is the heart of our family and Very Strong Moral values. If we spoke out of line, it was the 1st thing she had to hand we would get belted with. Same for misbehaving, She signed a Waiver for my Schools for allowing to be Caned. I wish they would bring this back, as it put the fear into you. Too not Misbehave. My convent school, Then  Primary School would make all those to be caned wait for Friday Mass. And then be caned infront of everyone. 
Having a letter come home from the school was a terrifying experience. I was Head Boy at both my Primary Schools and My Parents were very Proud of that fact. 


My Mother Agrees that The Power that has been taken away from Authority Figures should be given back. So that Children/Teenagers Learn to respect them as they once did.


----------



## GreenNeedle

skeletonw00t said:
			
		

> It's happened because the looney-left-wing-liberal attitudes of the last 13 years have caught up with us.
> 
> The labour government perpetuating myths like a single parent household is just as good for kids as two parents. The idea that its everyones god given right to go to university. Te idea that everyone is going to bw paid 35k plus salaries (see the rediculous public sector positions available these days).
> 
> Labour have systematically destroyed the work ethic in the so called "working class" creating an underclass who don't want or need to work as its of no benefit to them.



I disagree. I am most definately a tory voter.  always will be.  My ethic is if you look after the rich (i.e. the business man/woman) then they look after the poor.  i.e. they create jobs and pay people.  If the state tries to look after the poor instead then it penalises those businessmen/women and they either don't create those jobs or create them somewhere else.

So whilst socialist parties may have a nice idealogical belief, in practice it actually hurts those it intends to help.

I don not accept however that this is 13 years of labour's fault.  Labour have played along with it but this has been increasing ever since the mid eighties/early 90s.  The whole Europe wide human rights ethic.  The gradual acceptance of the america 'sue' culture.  The super boom of the health and safety executive.

So over the past 30 or so years the state has gradually taken away the responsibility of everyone and taken it upon government and quangos to assume the responsibility by telling us what we can and can't do and letting judges give people compensation for tripping over paving slabs whilst not looking where they are going.

So whilst I would love to blame Blair and Brown, I can't.  Its been a slide that has taken place over 3 decdes and 5 prime ministers 

I agree Gill.  When I was in first school I received the cane just weeks before it was outlawed.  I then got punished by my parents for doing something that warranted a caning.

When I was at Primary school I received the slipper (a plimsole over the palm of the hand - burned for hours) once when I did nothing wrong.  That was outlawed very soon after.

I wouldn't say that it made me an angel otherwise I would have stopped after the caning however it taught me that if I was going to do something wrong I'd better be prepared for the consequences.

Talk in class and you would get hit by a flying chalkboard rubber.  That hurt and you listened from then on.

What happens now?  pupil talks, the teacher requests silence.  The teacher gets hit by a flying school desk.  Then we are back onto the sue/blame compensation ethic 

You could add the other misnomer of teach kids sex education at an early age and that will help them understand about safe sex and make more informed choices.  Was supposed to reduce the amount of teenage pregnancy.  What was the result?  Teach them about it.  Remove the taboo.  Record numbers of teenage pregnancys and an ever reducing record low age.

Please forgive any typos. My PC for some reason is struggling to keep up with my ranting 

Andy


----------



## plantbrain

The only reason why the Rich hire more people is because demand goes up, not because they get Government freebies, kickbacks, legalized "Bribes", this is not about politics, this business and economics. Taking care of the rich just means they end up with more money is all, not help out more poor people. Trickle down economics is a failure. I own a business and run several different sides/aspects to it. 

Many of my client's are extremely wealthy. My work does not change, nor do they hire more/less unless demand pick's up for their goods/services.

I have strong conservative and liberal values. I am not one dimensional. But "help the rich so they will help the poor" is not logical nor is it factual in economics or business.

A favorite: "Have you ever been hired by a poor man?" Answer: yes, I work basically for my customers, many of which are less well to do than myself. By pooling many poorer folks together, a Grocery store owner can make millions while being much richer than those that are supporting his profits. A simple mind for falls for such one dimensional non critical thinking talking points. But then again, someone has to do the gardening, janitorial work, farm work besides *me*, I do not like those jobs  

These arguments and talk points are developed to fool folks, the reality it is all about the $$$, pooling the taxes from the middle classes and poor, sale tax etc.....and to help the Rich even more. It's a scam. I paid 35% Tax, now I pay 22% even though I make 6X as much. I know the Game.

It's not about right or wrong, it's just political marketing :idea: 

Still, I agree than too much nanny state approach is deterimental, folks have to come to terms and learn to work and make their way on their own, it's not an easy road. Africa is hugely dependent on hand outs. Many do not think till the next day, just what they can get today only. Like a lazy teenager, they will not work till they are forced too. The guy not paying you rent will not pay till the police evict him(done this 4X!, PITA) and then you still have to go after their employer wages. If the nanny state is working for them, then great! Why change? They have no motivation to do so.

But as far as these kids go, it's mostly about parents, a few parents turned their kids in, bully for them!
I would, but I'd beat them first. "Oh that broken arm? Must of happen in the riot!"

BTW, I was homeless for a few months, if I can do it, and get multiple degrees etc.....anyone can.
I was that slacker teenager myself at one point.


----------



## Zerocon

It's disgusting, people my age and younger justifying all of it, they say  they are 'getting payback' from companies not giving them jobs. YOU HAVE TO WORK HARD AND EARN A JOB, you are not just given it.


----------



## GHNelson

Nice One Nigel  
Now theres a man I could vote for to get us out of the EEC.
Thats what we signed up to not this European Super State.
hoggie


----------



## twg




----------



## Ian Holdich

well the riots have spread to Lincoln, watch out Andy!


----------



## GreenNeedle

Ian.  Lol.  At last I have video evidence. That isn't anything to do with riots.  Been wondering who knocks my bin over every week.  




			
				plantbrain said:
			
		

> The only reason why the Rich hire more people is because demand goes up, not because they get Government freebies, kickbacks, legalized "Bribes", this is not about politics, this business and economics. Taking care of the rich just means they end up with more money is all, not help out more poor people. Trickle down economics is a failure. I own a business and run several different sides/aspects to it.



Its a bit different over here Tom.

The UK has virtually none of its own manufacturing left.  Not for serious investment.  All we have now are banks and retail.

Most of our economy relies on foreign investment.  Over the past 2-3 decades we have increasingly  had to encourage the Japanese, Germans no doubt soon to be Indian and Chinese et al to choose Britain as the place to setup manufacturing.  We cannot do that if we then penalise them.  they just choose other countries where they are not penalised and therefore we don't get the jobs.

Some will blame Thatcher but in reality it was our own people's demands that pushed the labour cost too high and also our own companies not investing in upgraded manufacturing processes/machinery/facilities.  We got behind and then couldn't match the other emerging countries on cost or quality.

This lack of investment can be seen both ways.  either as the rich owners pocketing too much or not being able to invest due to the labour cost.  either way that is a side issue.

So in essence we have to beg the rich from other countries to come here and setup business or we have nothing but retail and finance left.  Even the British manufacturing that we do have left (Dyson etc.) are threatening moving out of the UK.  Many (I would suggest most) already source everything from outside of the UK and plain and simple build the finished product in the UK.

Always blamed on Thatcher but in truth should be blamed on the common man, people like me and every other joe bloggs that works that demanded ever improving wages and conditions.

I just watched a 'youth question time special' on the Riots.  I heard some say exactly what I have said above.  More the adult panel than the youths.  Most of the youths <24s have grown up thinking this lax level of discipline and rights of young people are the standard and they all spouted the same blarb of 'no prospects, low expectancy etc.'

I heard one suggest that under our current government people are having to work more hours for less money than before.  before what?  a couple of years ago?  Turn back the clock 20 years people and then complain about the wage for the hours put in.  We have it easy these days.

Its quite wierd really. I was 30 when my first child was born 6 years ago and already was worried about what kind of world he would grow up in.  My wife was 23 and she was on the lines of these kids even though she is from Portugal.  To her it was £20 Puma trainers for a 1 year old and designer cots/pushchairs.  It amazes me.  The argument was 'what is wrong with wanting my son to have nice shoes and look good'.  I think it is an age thing.  I just caught the last remnants of proper discipline before I got to the teenage years.

My answer was and still is 'because there is more to life than worrying about image. Forget what the idiot over the street thinks.

I buy all my kids clothes off ebay in bundles.  £1-£2 an item.  I buy those 'flashy' clothes that are only 6 months - 1 year old from those idiots and I'm not ashamed to dress my kids second hand.  It appeases the wife because they have the stupid labels whilst not wasting money that could be better spent on buying good fresh food and not a freezer full from Iceland.

I live on what people in Lincoln consider one of the worst streets in Lincoln . Being brought up in a quite desirable area of Lincoln myself  I too thought the same before I moved here.  Its not actually bad at all but reputations from many moons ago linger on in the mids of those who have never been here.

Its actually quiet, sociable and friendly.  Of course there is the odd druggie house here or drunkard who lives on his own yet bangs on the door every sunday for someone to let him in when he forgets his keys (there's no-one in there....you live alone you fool) but it is a council estate so I guess that is to be expected.

A lot of families on this street live in electrical luxury but in undecorated houses.  They do not work, not the mother, the father (if there is one), not the 4 or 5 kids.  They get taxis everywhere they go sometimes several times a day.  they do not use buses as they have to walk 4 minutes up the road for the bus and then wait for anything up to 15 minutes for the next bus.  They push their own Tesco trolley to Tesco and fill it up and bring it back home leaving it in the front garden.  their front gardens and very generously sized back gardens (that would make most home owners very jealous) are left to ruin for most of the year apart from the yearly strimming where the communal strimmer is lent from house to house.  They stand at their front doors smoking their packs of 20 or if they are budgeting their roll ups both of which will be contraband as this is big business on the council estates.  They let their 5 and 6 year olds play on the street of their own freewill.  These 5 or 6 year olds leave the house when they want to, play when they want to and their parents let them.

Still its a quiet life up here apart from the damn ice cream van which comes on the hour every hour from 9 in the morning until 9 at night rain or shine, sumer or winter.....there is always a queue!!!!

They take out £500 loans at unemployed 50% interest rates because their kids party has to live up to everyone else's.  Has to have a hired bouncy castle, every other kid has to see that the birthday 5 year old gets a Nintendo DS, Party bags to be taken home have to be uber flashy and so the merry go round goes on.

Me.  My kids parties consist of pass the parcel,  musical chairs etc.  there are no party bags.  The kids get to take a piece of cake home and any prize they won (book or pack of pencils etc.)  All the kids enjoy themselves,  they all go home happy.  I couldn't care less if the parents think that I am tight.  Its about the kids not impressing the parents.

The essence of the story?  If the mentality is that designer labels, electricals, fags, booze and several ice creams a day are must haves, that they are not lifestyle choices then of course they are all going to feel the pinch.

The rest of us.  We live within our means (maybe take credit within our means) but we choose to eat better and live better for ourselves and not so that it looks good to the person next door.  Its not 'keeping up with the Jones' anymore.  Everybody IS the Jones'  there's noone to keep up with because everybody thinks its the norm.

While that mentality of luxuries being considered necesseties and maintaining an image for others continues, then all the kids grow up thinking the same and things get worse.

Doesn't excuse 'latching' onto a reason created by some politicians or political thinktanks falsely use to 'sympathise' with their 'plight'. Put a 'reason' out there and they all feel vindicated in their thinking they are hard done by.

Andy


----------



## Nelson

> Our father, who art in prison, my mum knows not his name, thy Riots come, read it in the sun, in Birmingham, as it is in London, give us this day our Welfare bread & forgive us our looting, as we're happy to loot those who defend stuff against us, lead us not into employment but deliver us free housing, for thine is the tellys, the Burberry & the Bacardi, forever and ever...Innit !!!!


----------



## ghostsword

Great post Andy! Although I do not favor the brands and I try to push that to the kids, so that they would not have to worry about what others do or buy, the kids are faced with a different culture at school.

I am Portuguese and my wife is south African, Elsies River. If you are from cape town you would know how uncool the hood is.  I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife,  , but I also know that money is bette spent on food and on education, everything else is irrelevant. 

The kids that were rampaging through town were missing moral values, and the fault lies at home.

Where I come from you do not work you do not eat, and go live under the bridge, but here sometimes is pays to stay at home. I know people that have come here just to sponge the government. That is the issue. The government takes away all benefits, everything, gives just decent pension to old people and for sure these yobs  and their parents will go either back to work, school or starve. 

You may say that removing their help will make it worse, but spend the money saved on police, and support them, and you'll see that they would be under manners.




---
- .


----------



## GreenNeedle

> I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife,



Lol. Ia m flashier Luis.  I have all the labels, Lacoste, Ralph, Valentino, DKNY, Burberry etc but I bought all that when I was working, when I was single, when I lived at home.  They are still in the wardrobe.  Some ten (or more) years old. they are gradually being replaced as they wear out with Tesco or ebay clothing 

None of these labels were bought before I was working.  My mum and Dad would not put up with any demands like that.  £1 a week pocket money meant 3 weeks money for a cinema ticket or 5 weeks for a vinyl album.  For that £1 a week I had to walk the dog, do washing up, keep the bedroom tidy etc.  Any chores missed and the £1 reduced 

I celebrated turning 15......pocket money went up to £2 so I could buy a new album every 2.5 weeks and I love music.

When I moved out of the parents home (aged 29....oops) the priorities changed.  when I had my first child the priorities changed further.  When I lost my job they changed even further etc.  Its about making the best of and not carrying on regardless and to hell with the consequence.

A person who makes the best out of what they do have will always be happier than the one who moans about what they don't have.

The person who makes the best out of what they have is even more satisfied as things get better.  The person who moans about what they don't have is never happy because when they get what they didn't have they now want the next thing they don't have.

The positive thinker versus the negative thinker.

At the age of 17 and whilst all the factory workers were earning £180 or so a week I got a job as a trainee accountant at a big engineering company.......The wage?.....£70 a week.   I was struggling to imagine how to spend this amount of money.  Was overjoyed at the wage and the opportunity.  This was only just more than jobseekers (dole) at the time.

If any of these youths were offered that sort of chance at say.....£150 training wage for the first year what would their reaction be?  Probably I was getting £60 a week pocket money before I turned 16 and I'm now getting more than £120 plus my council flat rent and C Tax paid for!!!!  Obviously going to be a no 

Remember also at this time there was something called the YTS (youth training scheme) where kids could get experience at a job and be paid £35 a week.  Imagine trying to re-implement that now!!!  Remove the dole for all below 18 and you have to work for say £70. lol.  Let the riots begin!!!!



> The government takes away all benefits, everything, gives just decent pension to old people and for sure these yobs and their parents will go either back to work, school or starve.
> 
> You may say that removing their help will make it worse, but spend the money saved on police, and support them, and you'll see that they would be under manners.



They are going to have to have a discussion about whether to debate it!!! the petition has reached the required number of signees that they have to properly discuss the subject 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitio ... state=open

Andy


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## GreenNeedle

This is the government's statement on the petition above:

_Prisoners convicted of a criminal offence and detained in prison are not entitled to social security benefits. That means that anyone who is eligible for social security benefits and who is caught, convicted and imprisoned for any offence committed during the recent disorder that has disrupted London and other UK cities will be disqualified from receiving social security payments. The Department for Work and Pensions is also looking at whether further sanctions can be imposed on the benefit entitlements of individuals who receive non custodial sentences. In addition the Department is considering increasing the level of fines which can be deducted from benefit entitlement. 

In relation to social housing, it is already a ground for eviction if a tenant or a member of their family is involved in anti-social behaviour or criminal activity in their local neighbourhood. Ministers have encouraged social landlords to use these powers, and a number of local authorities have pledged to do so. The Department for Communities and Local Government is consulting on proposals to allow such evictions to take place where the criminal activity takes place outside the vicinity of the local neighbourhood_

They've already evicted one in wandsworth!!!  Single mum apparently who's kid was involved.

Andy


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## Gill

> I'm the flashy one, I understand your wife



I am a Bargain Hunter and Thrifty. Always looking to save money wherever I can. This extends to everything i do and Now Even my Fish keeping. 
I never buy clothes unless they are on sale and at least over 50% Off. I don't Buy Labels, apart from a few nice items for Special occasions/weddings/parties. And even then I hunt for a Bargain on the labels. 
When we were younger My Parents did buy us a few label items, and usually they were @ the Wholesale price(as they were in Clothing Retail). My brothers now buy labels and spend so much on clothing.
For my Son we buy his clothes Only during the sales, as What is the point of buying at full price when it will be reduced in a few weeks time. And Also online/ebay. 
For Designer Labels I also Buy Alot online and Love Ebay, as i can find Used clothing at a fraction of the retail price. And Sometimes Shops Like Littlewoods ebay Clearance Sell at over 85%. And then I buy a few items, I would never normally buy in town. I love Cotton Traders clothing but the retail prices are High, so love finding bargains on ebay/online. 


When it come to Electrical items, nothing changes. Hunt for the best price and I use Hot Deals Uk alot for checking what is on Offer. 
When we are out or go shopping I have videos of My Sons favourite Progs on my Phone for him to watch. Now as he is getting Older he watches me when I use my phone, and has learnt how to use my BB. Not wanting him to ruin it, I have been bidding for a few weeks on an MP4 player on ebay. And finally won an all-in-one 16GB for under a tenner. I was not about to pay Retail price for something he will eventually break or lose. He loves the Toy Story Films and shorts, so they are all on there. And I sit with him on Youtube and he tells me which Videos he wants me to DL for Him. ATM he is still liking PogoMusic's Remixes and Mike tompkinsons Acapella Videos.


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