# Rummy nose vs cardinals Iwagumi



## Nigel95 (22 May 2017)

Hey first I was 100% sure about cardinals. Then I read they don't school thight so the choice went for rummy nose. Now people tell me my tank wouln't be enough colourfull without the cardinals. The rummy nose school tight + less distraction from the rocks which suits better for an Iwagumi. But the colours of cardinals are lovely but more distraction. hmmmm......

What do you think? Let me know 

My tank


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## Pinaki Pal (22 May 2017)

I  would   go  for   cardinals....   If   u  want  tightly  schooling   fish  then   Pristilla maxilaris   u  can  consider  as well   ..;...

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## Pinaki Pal (22 May 2017)

Excellent    set up  as well  

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## roadmaster (22 May 2017)

Against white or light colored background,I too would choose cardinal tetra's.


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## Nigel95 (22 May 2017)

roadmaster said:


> Against white or light colored background,I too would choose cardinal tetra's.



The light on the background will reduce the lights are pretty high now for the start. After all opinions maybe the cardinals is the best choice yeah... all opinions still welcome guys


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## roadmaster (22 May 2017)

Threadfin Rainbow's might be consideration?


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## dw1305 (22 May 2017)

Hi all, 





Nigel95 said:


> Then I read they don't school thight so the choice went for rummy nose. Now people tell me my tank wouln't be enough colourfull without the cardinals. The rummy nose school tight + less distraction from the rocks which suits better for an Iwagumi.


All Tetras only school tightly when they are stressed. For any small fish an iwagumi with little cover and no floating plants is a stressful environment.  

cheers Darrel


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## Trevor Pleco (22 May 2017)

Rummy nose can be plant nippers and imo perhaps a little big for that scape/tank  

Red embers shoal nicely and are a bit more original than the ubiquitous cardinal.
I started off with 20 in my big tank they have now multiplied to over 70..


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## roadmaster (22 May 2017)

I'm on board with Darrel,fishes mostly school tightly out of fear of predation by other fishes.
Safety in number's, where it makes it more difficult for larger fish to single out one or two.
In a suitable environment,with no fear of becoming lunch, they are likely to swim in all area's rather than tight group.
With this said,,the rummy nose are more likely to travel together than other species.
For color, still like the cardinal's in group of a dozen or more if size of tank permit's.
I also agree with Darrel on floating cover.
I run open top tank's and have noted fewer fishes jumping from the tank with some floating cover.


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## Nigel95 (22 May 2017)

Plan is to only stock a single type of schooling fish with some Amano, rcs and crs. I can easy stock 20+ of them.
So the choice is still tighter schooling vs color.


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## Konsa (22 May 2017)

Hi
I will suggest if you are adding amanos to wait till the carpet is established well as they will move substrate and even the slope out
Regards Konsa


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## Nigel95 (22 May 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> I will suggest if you are adding amanos to wait till the carpet is established well as they will move substrate and even the slope out
> Regards Konsa


Hmm yeah they move it a lot but they are great diatom cleaners to.


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## Konsa (22 May 2017)

Hi
Yes they are the ultimate cleaner.
I like them a lot.The only thing with them is they are not like the other lil shrimps. Once matured they need feeding as if they starve they start munching on plants, mosses.I had thought about  leaving them on diatom diet at one time and they  eat my riccardia and all the Lobelia cardinalis  mini particular favourite of one of them left only stems with not a single leaf left on it in 2 days in a small tank of mine.
Regards Konsa


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## Nigel95 (22 May 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Yes they are the ultimate cleaner.
> I like them a lot.The only thing with them is they are not like the other lil shrimps. Once matured they need feeding as if they starve they start munching on plants, mosses.I had thought about  leaving them on diatom diet at one time and they  eat my riccardia and all the Lobelia cardinalis  mini particular favourite of one of them left only stems with not a single leaf left on it in 2 days in a small tank of mine.
> Regards Konsa



Damn that sounds bad. So far they have not been eating mine carpet plants in my nano. Waiting till the grass is fully carpet is gonna take a long time.... I was thinking about releasing the amano's right after the tank is cycled.


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## Konsa (22 May 2017)

Hi
They may not bother with the plants in your tank.Mine amanos are couple of years old in shrimp only tank that i din't fed  for weeke when I had diatoms hoping they will sort them.It was only then they had a go with the greens.But they will move the soil thats for sure
Anyway every tank is different and you may have different experience. I thought I will share mine to save you some possible issues in future.I think Zeus on here has 500l tank with Amanos in and in his tread" Olympus 500l is calling" page 5 you can cleary see the soil displacement he had cause of them
All the best with the scape
Regards Konsa


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## Nigel95 (23 May 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> They may not bother with the plants in your tank.Mine amanos are couple of years old in shrimp only tank that i din't fed  for weeke when I had diatoms hoping they will sort them.It was only then they had a go with the greens.But they will move the soil thats for sure
> Anyway every tank is different and you may have different experience. I thought I will share mine to save you some possible issues in future.I think Zeus on here has 500l tank with Amanos in and in his tread" Olympus 500l is calling" page 5 you can cleary see the soil displacement he had cause of them
> All the best with the scape
> Regards Konsa



No worries Thanks for keeping the heads up.


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## doylecolmdoyle (23 May 2017)

I would say the tank is too small for rummy nose, why not look at boraras or rasboras, you could probably stock 30+ of these tiny micro fish, again they only really school tightly when spooked


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## Trevor Pleco (23 May 2017)

maculatus shoaled for me in small tanks .. great little fish with character and lived for ages 4+ years


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## Nigel95 (23 May 2017)

Think I go for the cardinals  Thanks for all replies


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## Pippa J (23 May 2017)

A group of ember tetra always look stunning 

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## Nigel95 (25 May 2017)

Someone said cardinals can look 'washed' out on a light background. What about green neon tetras?


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## Nigel95 (25 May 2017)

Pippa J said:


> A group of ember tetra always look stunning
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



Not really a fan of orange tbh..


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## roadmaster (26 May 2017)

Cardinal's may take a few day's to adapt/acclimate, but will color nicely if condition's are good.
Is same for rummy nose, but they're silver sides against white or light colored background would in my view be lost, and only the crimson nose would draw attention.


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## PARAGUAY (26 May 2017)

I think also sometimes "understated" fish have just has good a effect, think I agree most South American tetras are best in numbers in large tanks with cover of plants and wood


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## roadmaster (26 May 2017)

Yes,I think both/most species look nice in tannin stained water, but I realize most do not appreciate the look.
To see comparison,one could boil some pure Sphagnum peat(no additives) in a pot, and use rendering to create tannin look usually as a result from tannin's leaching into the water column from wood's.
Can always perform water change after viewing the effect, and return the tanks water  clarity to previous condition.
Can also use auto window tinting material on back glass if one wishes.


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## Nigel95 (26 May 2017)

The background is sprayed with frosted glass spray. I bought it like this from someone and didn't like to scrap it off with something sharp. So making it more dark is not an option. Problem with the cardinals, green neons and rummy nose they like more soft water. The ph wouldn't be a problem with my co2 but the gh and kh are relative high. If this makes them colour less that would be bad with my background. Anyone experience with green neons on a light background?

My tap water:
KH 9
PH 7,5
GH 13
TDS 170


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## Nigel95 (28 May 2017)

New plan what if I buy 5 cardinals and 5 green neons and decide then which I like the most. At the end I would only have 5 of 1 type but if they school together shouldn't be a problem?


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## roadmaster (30 May 2017)

No,don't buy fishes to see what look's best, and discard or return other's? 
Google images of fishes that interest you, and research condition's that favor them, (ie) temp's,water chemistry,diet,etc.
Hobby is full of folk's that purchase fishes for aesthetic values without much interest as to whether the fishes they purchase may or may not be suitable for the environment you or I could most easily provide.


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## Nigel95 (30 May 2017)

roadmaster said:


> No,don't buy fishes to see what look's best, and discard or return other's?
> Google images of fishes that interest you, and research condition's that favor them, (ie) temp's,water chemistry,diet,etc.
> Hobby is full of folk's that purchase fishes for aesthetic values without much interest as to whether the fishes they purchase may or may not be suitable for the environment you or I could most easily provide.



I just don't know what will look the 'best' with my light background. That's why. I did my research about conditions..


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## roadmaster (30 May 2017)

Would submit that soft water species will not fair as well or color up as well in more alkaline water's.(Generally)
Would suggest that the effort lend's itself to either choosing more suitable species, and,or purchasing a baker's dozen of one species with expectation's of losing a few maybe 50% or fewer.IMHO
If shrimp were to also be a consideration ,then The Threadfin Raibow's are a small species with tiny mouth's  that would not pose near the risk to the shrimp's and enjoy moderate to hard alkaline water's.
The photo's do not do them justice but males and females together along with posturing by the males and the flicking of fin's as they interact is enjoyed by those who have kept them.
Small Furcata is another species that  is under appreciated but a bit more aggressive than the Threadfin Rainbow's.
I have 12 dgh and pH from the tap is between 7.4 and 7.6 and although I have managed to keep the cardinal's and neon's along with rummy nose, I frequently lost several at a time while hoping they might acclimate to my water from the tap which is easiest for me to reproduce and is what I use for all tank's these day's.
Sure, I could and have in the past adjusted water to suit different species,but it is much easier for me and fishes me thinks ,to choose fishes that suit my water rather than adjusting water to suit the fishes.
Anything that is more tedious for me ,becomes less and less of an interest to me in my golden year's and I am not as likely to stick to a regime.
You will of course do as you wish,just offering some food for thought if not for you,,,maybe so for other's.


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## Nigel95 (30 May 2017)

roadmaster said:


> Would submit that soft water species will not fair as well or color up as well in more alkaline water's.(Generally)
> Would suggest that the effort lend's itself to either choosing more suitable species, and,or purchasing a baker's dozen of one species with expectation's of losing a few maybe 50% or fewer.IMHO
> If shrimp were to also be a consideration ,then The Threadfin Raibow's are a small species with tiny mouth's  that would not pose near the risk to the shrimp's and enjoy moderate to hard alkaline water's.
> The photo's do not do them justice but males and females together along with posturing by the males and the flicking of fin's as they interact is enjoyed by those who have kept them.
> ...



I appreciate your alternatives but by far they don't compete with looks of cardinals IMO. So far the LFS also keeps them just on tap water, so if it was really bad they couldn't even life in there right? My water supplier says the water will become 'softer' in 2018 although yeah what is softer? Guess we will see in 2018 still a long time to go... loses up to 50% seems a lot. Did you lose them only when introducing or still over the time when the tank was running?


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## roadmaster (30 May 2017)

Most of those lost were within three weeks of introducing them.
Those that survived often did well,but early on,, those that witness this often see it as some type of sickness or disease, and begin throwing med's at the fishes which places more stress on them.(more fishes lost)
If the fishes die,they buy more in hopes that the next batch possibly from different source,do better.
Is what I did for too long with less than desired result's.
  I began grasping with hope those experiences shared by others who claimed to keep them in similar condition's without issues.
Was not until I decided that maybe the fishes just didn't like the condition's I kept submitting them to and either went with R/O tap water mix ,or chose different species.
You or I may be just barely able to keep said fishes in our water or fish store water, but then maybe we do not account for sharp increases in TDS from plant fertilizer's,CO2 in high or fluctuating concentration's,bright lighting beaming down upon them,  all manner of buffer's,or popular pH up /down powder's while chasing some magic pH which only cause more fluctuation's with water chemistry in glass box.
I say try the  cardinal's after the tank has matured for a few month's and as mentioned,purhase a dozen minimum.
Provide stable condition's with no sudden changes to chemistry,and perhaps they will adapt.
Just throwing scenario's out there that might be expected.


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