# Fish recommendation



## Conort2 (11 Oct 2021)

Hi,

Hope everyone’s good. As some of you may know I’ve recently acquired some ammocryptocharax elegans. They’re currently being house in a 18in L x 16in W x 12in H aquarium. There is quite a high flow and the tank is decorated with leaves, twigs and some easy low light plants like anubias, moss, Java fern. Now the main issue is with these fish is they don’t move a great deal and are pretty well camouflaged so aren’t seen much. Has anyone got any recommendations on a tank mate which may increase activity in the tank? The only species I can think of are dwarf shrimp and dwarf loricairiids such as parotocinclus, hypoptopoma etc.

 The tank mates can’t really compete with the darter characins as they only eat live and are very slow feeders hence the reason I can only think of dwarf loricariids. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated although I think this one may be a struggle.

Cheers


----------



## dw1305 (11 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Conort2 said:


> The only species I can think of are dwarf shrimp and dwarf loricairiids such as parotocinclus, hypoptopoma etc.


I'd go with those. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (11 Oct 2021)

I'm hesitant making any recommendations @Conort2, as I know your fish knowledge is far more extensive than mine, and you've likely already considered most of the common recommendations that I might come up with.  That said, some Boraras would be one consideration if it were me - given that they tend to inhabit the upper layer (assuming you have floating plants) and so will stay away from food falling down to your green darters (for the most part).

The Chocolate Gourami's that you also recommended to me might be a consideration, and would look great in your blackwater/leaf litter style tank - though perhaps it's pushing the tank size a little. I have found them to be quite slow purposeful feeders, so they'd also likely allow your Green Darters plenty of time to get to food also (though they do graze at all levels).


----------



## Conort2 (11 Oct 2021)

Liking the suggestions @Wookii however the big issue is the high flow rate. I think those black water swamp fish will get battered by the flow. The darter characins look extremely delicate but they take high flow in their stride due to their body shape. 






						Acestridium dichromum • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog
					

Images are copyright and may not be reproduced without permission of the copyright holder.




					www.planetcatfish.com
				



This is from the same habitat and also has the same colour changing ability but I recon they’re even harder to find than the darter characins.


----------



## Wookii (11 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Liking the suggestions @Wookii however the big issue is the high flow rate. I think those black water swamp fish will get battered by the flow. The darter characins look extremely delicate but they take high flow in their stride due to their body shape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good point, I missed that you'd mentioned the high flow. Out of interest how are you getting the high flow in a small tank like that, without it turning into a whirl pool - do you have some spray-bar style arrangement?


----------



## dw1305 (11 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Conort2 said:


> This is from the same habitat and also has the same colour changing ability but I recon they’re even harder to find than the darter characins.


....... and <"pretty difficult to keep alive">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Conort2 (11 Oct 2021)

Wookii said:


> Good point, I missed that you'd mentioned the high flow. Out of interest how are you getting the high flow in a small tank like that, without it turning into a whirl pool - do you have some spray-bar style arrangement?


Only using a aquael Pat filter and a ehiem skim without the skimmer attached, the ehiem seems to be kicking out the flow compared to aquael. 


dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> ....... and <"pretty difficult to keep alive">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Seems that way! Looks like they need a continuous source of algae. I’ve found what appears to be some parotocinclus eppleyi but these sound equally as difficult too. Problem is with these dwarf loricariids is their often in a terrible way before they make it to the shops and you end up trying to fight a losing battle. 

Maybe some higher grade shrimp may be the best bet. I’ve never given proper bee shrimp a go so now may be the time.


----------



## John q (11 Oct 2021)

Like wooki I'm hesitant with suggestions but how about nannoptopoma sp1 (robocop otocinclus). I don't think they'd out compete the elegans for food and think they can handle a fair amount of flow. 
Like most oddball wild fish getting good quality specimens can be an issue, and these little guys would require a decent amount of algae and vegetable matter to keep them healthy. 










						Nannoptopoma sp. (LDA110) • Loricariidae • Cat-eLog
					

Images are copyright and may not be reproduced without permission of the copyright holder.




					www.planetcatfish.com


----------



## shangman (11 Oct 2021)

John q said:


> Like wooki I'm hesitant with suggestions but how about nannoptopoma sp1 (robocop otocinclus). I don't think they'd out compete the elegans for food and think they can handle a fair amount of flow.
> Like most oddball wild fish getting good quality specimens can be an issue, and these little guys would require a decent amount of algae and vegetable matter to keep them healthy.
> View attachment 175317
> 
> ...


Also Aquatic Design Center can get them in, they had some last year!


----------



## Conort2 (11 Oct 2021)

John q said:


> Like wooki I'm hesitant with suggestions but how about nannoptopoma sp1 (robocop otocinclus). I don't think they'd out compete the elegans for food and think they can handle a fair amount of flow.
> Like most oddball wild fish getting good quality specimens can be an issue, and these little guys would require a decent amount of algae and vegetable matter to keep them healthy.
> View attachment 175317
> 
> ...


They were one of the species I had in mind to be fair. Think they’d appreciate a similar sort of set up, they key would be finding healthy specimens. 

I’d always fancied otocinclus cocama aswell, just seems quite a gamble considering the price of these little loricariids. I’d be very suprised if I found them for less than 12quid each and then you’d need a group of at least 6.

Cheers


----------



## afroturf (11 Oct 2021)

If you decide to go down the 'otto' like fish and fancy a challenge finding them I'd suggest Parotocinclus britskii, fantastic little fish and would appreciate similar conditions too the Ammocryptocharax, I kept some a few years ago and were one of the best fish I've ever kept like tiny camouflage Otocinculs. Or if not too similar looking to the Ammocryptocharax you could look a another fish with great character Homaloptera tweedi/smithii


----------



## John q (11 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> just seems quite a gamble considering the price of these little loricariids. I’d be very suprised if I found them for less than 12quid each and then you’d need a group of at least 6.


Yes, definitely a gamble. I spent about an hour yesterday eyeing these up at aqualife in Leyland, they'd had a delivery from ruinemans a couple of weeks ago so I knew they had them in. They looked in good condition to be fair, but I ended up leaving with some otothyropsis instead. 

Spent the night wrestling with myself about the pros, cons and risks then phoned them today and reserved 4 which I collect on Friday. They also had otocinclus cocama which have also been on my hit list for a while but they only had one. 


Conort2 said:


> I’d be very suprised if I found them for less than 12quid each


The ones I got £16.95 ea 😖


----------



## Conort2 (11 Oct 2021)

afroturf said:


> Parotocinclus britskii, fantastic little fish and would appreciate similar conditions too the Ammocryptocharax, I kept some a few years ago and were one of the best fish I've ever kept like tiny camouflage Otocinculs


Another great one to consider. How did you keep these alive long term?



John q said:


> Spent the night wrestling with myself about the pros, cons and risks then phoned them today and reserved 4 which I collect on Friday.


Good luck! They’re a unique little species, will have to keep us updated on how they get on.


----------



## afroturf (12 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Another great one to consider. How did you keep these alive long term?


As you mentioned previously getting healthy specimens to start with is half the trick, its a while since I had them but after a few initial losses were quite happy in a mature tank with clean water needed lots of wood to graze on as definitely preferred biofilm/algae than any prepared food, I did feed Repashy gel food both grub pie and soilent green painted onto rocks/wood witch was the most success I had with any prepared food.


----------



## Conort2 (12 Oct 2021)

afroturf said:


> but after a few initial losses


That’s the only issue, it seems almost inevitable I’ll lose a few unless I’m extremely lucky. 

I’m thinking a group of a smaller corydoras species could be an option but not sure how greedy these will be. Tukano and nijsseni are from the same sort of region and may be small enough to not outcompete them. Only other options are the true dwarfs like hastatus but not sure if they can hack the flow.


----------



## dw1305 (12 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Conort2 said:


> Only other options are the true dwarfs like hastatus but not sure if they can hack the flow.


<"_Aspidoras pauciradiatus_"> are good in high flow. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## afroturf (12 Oct 2021)

+1 on Aspidoras pauciradiatus my favourite "cory"


----------



## Conort2 (12 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> <"_Aspidoras pauciradiatus_"> are good in high flow.





afroturf said:


> +1 on Aspidoras pauciradiatus my favourite "cory"


I’m liking this suggestion a lot.

Turns out they’re now known as corydoras pauciradiatus and are part of the elegans group. Also they appear to be from the rio negro rather than the rio araguaia as was initially thought so they are from the same sort of area as the darter characins which is a bonus.


----------



## dw1305 (12 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


Conort2 said:


> Turns out they’re now known as corydoras pauciradiatus


They are going to split _Corydoras_ into several new genera, so _Corydoras_ lineage 5 will include _A. pauciradiatus, _but none of them will be _Corydoras, _they will be something else (possibly _Gastrodermus_).

It is still down as <"_Aspidoras pauciradiatus_ on PlanetCatfish">

cheers Darrel


----------



## Conort2 (12 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> It is still down as <"_Aspidoras pauciradiatus_ on PlanetCatfish">


Apologies Darrel, so it is. Seems corydoras world have jumped the gun abit early and are listing it as corydoras already.

Think I’ll keep an eye out for these, seems the perfect fit.

Cheers


----------



## John q (12 Oct 2021)

The aspidoras ~ corydoras argument seems to have been rumbling on for a good few years, Ian fuller is adamant that these are corydoras but at present they still remain aspidoras.

Exerpt from Ian fuller.


*Notes:*_Coryidoras pauciradiatus_ is somewhat variable in colour pattern, as can be seen in a closer look at a group of imported specimens.
Although at this time (June 2017) this species is still recognised by science as a _Aspidoras,_ although it is clearly not.

No idea how these ichthyologists decide and agree on scientific classification but either way its a lovely fish.


----------



## dw1305 (14 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


John q said:


> The aspidoras ~ corydoras argument seems to have been rumbling on for a good few years, Ian fuller is adamant that these are corydoras but at present they still remain aspidoras.


There are a couple of threads on "PlanetCatfish": <"Lineages"> and <"Whats up with Corys?">.

The great and the good chip in. Ian Fuller is "Coryman",  Julian Dignall "Jools", Eric Thomas "bekateen", Steve Grant "the.dark.one" and Rupert Collins "Racoll" etc.

The paper the infographics come from is Alexandrou, M. _et al_ (2011) <"Competition and phylogeny determine community structure in Müllerian co-mimics"> _Nature_ *469* (7328):84-8









cheers Darrel


----------



## John q (14 Oct 2021)

Interesting links darrel.

Only other thing I unearthed was a scot cat fact sheet that pretty much confirms your thoughts in post 19.


			ScotCat Factsheets August 1999: Corydoras pauciradiatus Weitzman & Nijssen, 1970


----------



## dw1305 (14 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


John q said:


> I unearthed was a scot cat fact sheet


I've looked at that one a few times. I've considered try to buy ~6 a couple of times, but the difficulty in breeding them (they are avid egg eaters)  and the initial expense has put me off.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Conort2 (14 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> difficulty in breeding them (they are avid egg eaters) and the initial expense has put me off.


This might make them a no go then, I’d prefer it if I could keep them with their eggs. I know corydoras tukano are safe with their eggs, issue is they’re bloody expensive! 

Cheers


----------



## dw1305 (15 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Conort2 said:


> I know corydoras tukano are safe with their eggs


I've looked a those as well. In some ways the sensible choice would be <"_Corydoras (ln 9) panda_">_, _easy to keep and breed, but you are literally going to get pennies for any that you sell. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Wookii (15 Oct 2021)

I honestly didn't know Cory's could go for so much money - just seen prices on a species called Corydoras Ancestor


----------



## dw1305 (15 Oct 2021)

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Cory's could go for so much money


There is a strong collectors market for them in E. Asia and that raises prices. If a new attractively marked "species" is collected people will pay silly money for them. Even now relatively few species have been scientifically described (they are introduced with <"C" or "CW" numbers)"> so you don't really know what you've got. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## John q (15 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> issue is they’re bloody expensive!


Pier aquatics had them in a couple of months ago, £28 ea.


----------



## Conort2 (15 Oct 2021)

Wookii said:


> just seen prices on a species called Corydoras Ancestor


Yeah some of the new ones coming out of the tapajos area of Brazil are going for silly money! The good thing is a lot of corydoras are quite easy to breed, CW111 is currently one of the most expensive but it seems to be an easy one to spawn and F1’s are popping up now so it shouldn’t be long until the prices drop. Corydoras weitzmani was ridiculously expensive when it first appeared, now it’s not much more than a corydoras sterbai as they’re so easy to breed.

Cheers


----------



## Conort2 (15 Oct 2021)

John q said:


> Pier aquatics had them in a couple of months ago, £28 ea.


I saw those, looks like they still have them. Time you factor in shipping as well it ends up quite an expensive purchase for a group.


----------



## John q (15 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> . Time you factor in shipping as well it ends up quite an expensive purchase for a group.


Indeed. I'd also feel uneasy about shipping such a valuable cargo.
Pier aquatics is a fantastic shop, they have some amazing fish in and would thoroughly recommend you visit if you're ever up this neck of the woods, understandably though that would involve one hell of a road trip. 😀


----------



## Conort2 (15 Oct 2021)

John q said:


> Indeed. I'd also feel uneasy about shipping such a valuable cargo.
> Pier aquatics is a fantastic shop, they have some amazing fish in and would thoroughly recommend you visit if you're ever up this neck of the woods, understandably though that would involve one hell of a road trip. 😀


I’ll have to go one day as their stock is ridiculous. Only problem is I’d go and want to buy half of the stock in the shop, think I’m safer staying away lol!


----------



## shangman (17 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> I’ll have to go one day as their stock is ridiculous. Only problem is I’d go and want to buy half of the stock in the shop, think I’m safer staying away lol!


Only 2 hours on the train from Euston!

Not too bad at all for a special something


----------



## Conort2 (17 Oct 2021)

shangman said:


> Only 2 hours on the train from Euston!
> 
> Not too bad at all for a special something


Only if I set up a new aquarium, I’ve got more than enough fish to keep me going for now. I’ve got a couple of rarities on order that I want to have a go with but that’ll be me for the time being .

I also didn’t realise just how rare those hyphessobrycon negodagua are that I’ve got so I’m going to try and raise a few spawns. They spawn easily enough in the main aquarium so hopefully it won’t be too hard. 

Cheers


----------



## shangman (17 Oct 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Only if I set up a new aquarium, I’ve got more than enough fish to keep me going for now. I’ve got a couple of rarities on order that I want to have a go with but that’ll be me for the time being .
> 
> I also didn’t realise just how rare those hyphessobrycon negodagua are that I’ve got so I’m going to try and raise a few spawns. They spawn easily enough in the main aquarium so hopefully it won’t be too hard.
> 
> Cheers


Looking forward to seeing your couple of rarities make an appearance! 

Great to breed a super rare fish too, they're certainly worthy of a tank of their own! 😍


----------



## Conort2 (26 Nov 2021)

Anyone guess what they are? 😁


----------



## Wookii (26 Nov 2021)

I'm gonna go with "Cory's" 😂


----------



## dw1305 (26 Nov 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Anyone guess what they are?


I was going to say <"_Corydoras (ln.9 ) weitzmani_">, but are they <"_Corydoras (ln.6) tukano__">_ ?

cheers Darrel


----------



## AlecF (26 Nov 2021)

Just for fun, some Cory elegans, as then you'll have an entirely elegans community.


----------



## Conort2 (26 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I was going to say <"_Corydoras (ln.9 ) weitzmani_">, but are they <"_Corydoras (ln.6) tukano__">_ ?
> 
> cheers Darrel


Correct! Got really lucky and when we mentioned them on ukaps i asked the fish barn if they could get any. They’re normally good at getting the fish I want in but it can take a long time for the rare species to pop up. On the off chance he’d ordered some the day before! Feel pretty lucky as it’s a species I’ve never seen in the flesh and was obviously on my wish list.

They’re now with the darter characins and some tucano tetras which I also picked up.

Cheers


----------



## shangman (26 Nov 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Correct! Got really lucky and when we mentioned them on ukaps i asked the fish barn if they could get any. They’re normally good at getting the fish I want in but it can take a long time for the rare species to pop up. On the off chance he’d ordered some the day before! Feel pretty lucky as it’s a species I’ve never seen in the flesh and was obviously on my wish list.
> 
> They’re now with the darter characins and some tucano tetras which I also picked up.
> 
> Cheers


Aha! I saw those tucanos last week and thought they were lovely, and cheaper than usual. Glad they've gone to a lovely home! 😍 Good old Fish Barn, what a great shop 😀


----------



## Conort2 (26 Nov 2021)

shangman said:


> Aha! I saw those tucanos last week and thought they were lovely, and cheaper than usual. Glad they've gone to a lovely home! 😍 Good old Fish Barn, what a great shop 😀


They’ve not let me down yet! 

Yeh, thought they’d be the perfect fit with the ammocryptocharax due to how small they are. They really are tiny so shouldn’t be much competition.


----------

