# Dual stage CO2 regulators for Aquaria- CO2 Art?



## Nick_593

Hi guys.

Has anyone had any experience with these CO2 regulators by any chance? Dual Gauged CO2 Regulator Aquarium Home Brew | CO2Art.co.uk - CO2 Aquarium Specialists

Whats the quality like etc? (as their a lot cheaper than other ones I've seen)?

Thanks a lot,

Nick


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## sa80mark

Theres a couple of people on here using them, ive no experience of them so cant comment but you should be aware there not dual stage, there a single stage regulator confusingly refered to as dual gauge, there is a big difference 

Mark


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## John S

Does anyone else have experience of this dual stage reg or know if it has adjustable working pressure?


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## Andy Thurston

Its amazing how many people get mugged off by dodgy sellers writing dual gauge in the description. Its been happening to hobby welders for years. If people don't know what type their regulator really is, they shouldn't be fitting it to a co2 cylinder/fire extinguisher 
Aquarium CO2 Dual Stage Regulator | CO2Art.co.uk - CO2 Aquarium Specialists
this is the only dual stage aquatic reg I've ever seen below £300 

Multi stage is now a widely used term because of this description deception problem


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## John S

Not really sure why you're digging at me over this. My current reg is single stage. As you point out dual stage regs are usually much more expensive which is why I want to know if this does what it says on the tin.

If anyone else can add something useful here it would be appreciated.


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## Andy Thurston

I wasnt digging at you, i was digging at sellers. your post wasnt there when i typed my post, but connection problems and a knock at the door delayed it been saved to the forum
my mates got a cheapy single stage reg it does ok. the needle valve is not that good but it does the job. if your happy with that, thats fine but if you want something that does the job really well, then there not that good


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## Richard Dowling

CO2 Art are a sponsor of UKAPS which must hold some weight,

Ive just purchased the Dual Stage w/ Solenoid and its working a hell of a lot better than my previous regulator. So far my experience with this company is better than any other (including the big name companys).

If I have any issues with my reg I'll be sure to let you know but at the moment it looks the part and is working well to match.


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## John S

Thanks Richard. My reason for asking is that one of my regs suffers from end of tank dump with a fire extinguisher. I'd just like confirmation that this doesn't / cannot happen with the Co2 Art one. It's a great price but I'm wary that you can get what you pay for.


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## Gollum

I have one to, but only been using if for 3 months. So far so good and No Complaints. Must say That CO2 Art are a complete pleasure to deal with.


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## Rob P

Richard Dowling said:


> CO2 Art are a sponsor of UKAPS which must hold some weight,
> 
> Ive just purchased the Dual Stage w/ Solenoid and its working a hell of a lot better than my previous regulator. So far my experience with this company is better than any other (including the big name companys).
> 
> If I have any issues with my reg I'll be sure to let you know but at the moment it looks the part and is working well to match.



Hope you see this Richard, can you answer if the co2 art dual STAGE regulator has adjustable working pressure or fixed mate?


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## Richard Dowling

Rob, yes its adjustable. You have the middle cog for the pressure and the needle valve for flow.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## Rob P

Ah nice one, still pleased with it fella?


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## iowphil

I have a co2 art solenoid valve on my azoo regulator, (I know it's not the reg liken the thread is posted for) but it's been very good, 
I've had a few orders now on co2 art and possible another this week for a bubble counter.
What need is there for the adjustable pressure? Is this for inline diffusers that require a higher flow?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John S

iowphil said:


> What need is there for the adjustable pressure?


 
Some diffusers need a working pressure of greater than 2 bar to work. If your reg has a fixed working pressure of 2 or below it cant drive the diffuser.


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## saiiimon

I've just bought a regulator with magnetic solenoid from CO2ART as well. Only had it for a few days but seems to be working fine.


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## John S

Can anybody comment yet on if these prevent end of tank dump?


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## John P Coates

John S said:


> My reason for asking is that one of my regs suffers from end of tank dump with a fire extinguisher.


Hello John,

I am currently looking into an alternative way of dealing with EOTDs. Please take a look at the following:

http://www.wcf.com/co2iron/faq.html

Scroll down the page to the section headed 'Relief'.

Hope it's of interest.

John C


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## John S

John P Coates said:


> Hello John,
> 
> I am currently looking into an alternative way of dealing with EOTDs. Please take a look at the following:
> 
> http://www.wcf.com/co2iron/faq.html
> 
> Scroll down the page to the section headed 'Relief'.
> 
> Hope it's of interest.
> 
> John C



Thanks John, will take a look.


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## X3NiTH

I'm using a CO2 Art single stage dual gauge regulator with a soda stream bottle. Today I noticed the tank was almost empty (bottle pressure gauge read nearly 0) but I had reached my desired pH drop by lights on (using controller set at 5.50), I realised I needed to replace immediately for fear of EOTD but I didn't have a replacement bottle to hand and had to go get a refill using my spare that I should have sorted beforehand. I left it all connected up and hoped I'd be back before the controller kicked back on the gas. Well I didn't make it back in time (rush hour traffic saw to that), the controller light was on and the solenoid open but the pH was above the control point +/-0.1pH tolerance at 5.63, no bubbles in the bubble counter. Soda stream bottle was empty, only made a slight pfffft as I disconnected the bottle. Tank inhabitants were all fine, just expecting to get fed.

Question is, did I control my way through an EOTD over the last day maybe two or did it happen while I was out fetching the replacement since the gauge read zero (needle resting on the pin and not above as it was before I went out). Did I even have an EOTD? Have I set my single stage dual gauge up in a way that minimises the effect of an EOTD or is it something to do with the reduced container volume of a soda stream bottle not exhibiting a strong EOTD. Everything I've read about EOTD and single stage regulators would have had me coming home to dead fish and happy plants but instead I got an empty sodastream bottle and hungry plants and fish?

I ran my bottle right out, what happened to the EOTD?


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## Andy Thurston

The ph controller stopped it or it never happened


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## Alje

If I'm honest I bought a CO2 Art 'Dual Stage' and I'm not totally convinced it is Dual stage. 
Maybe they could open one up and show us the internals.


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## Sacha

As far as I'm aware, true dual stage regulators cost hundreds of pounds. Many dual gauge regulators are wrongly advertised as dual stage. I'd be suspicious of any "dual stage" regulator available for less than £100.


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## Andy Thurston

Diy about £110 with a good quality reg and solenoid. So under £100 is possible for a cheap aquatic dual stage reg



 


 
The first stage is the bit on the back with caution written on it
And the second stage is the big shiny bit with the big black knob for adjustment.


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## John P Coates

Richard Dowling said:


> Rob, yes its adjustable. You have the middle cog for the pressure and the needle valve for flow.


But, is it dual stage? In other words, does it have two diaphragms?


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## John P Coates

If I'd bought a regulator described as 'dual stage' from CO2 Art at such a low price, I would email them and ask for confirmation that what I'd bought was indeed dual-stage.


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## John S

Alje said:


> If I'm honest I bought a CO2 Art 'Dual Stage' and I'm not totally convinced it is Dual stage.
> Maybe they could open one up and show us the internals.



Hi Alje, what makes you think it isn't?


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## id_darren

Do you agree with this statement ,

Generally speaking, I do not support the use of solenoids. Not because they are not a good IDEA, but because they are failure-prone, often resulting in dead fish. Not worth the risk in my opinion



Sent from my RM-914_eu_euro1_327 using Tapatalk


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## ian_m

X3NiTH said:


> I ran my bottle right out, what happened to the EOTD?


EOTD only tends to occur with cheap single stage regulators. I have a CO2Supermarket single stage regulator and as the tank pressure falls, when empty, the bubble rate just starts falling off until when tank is 15bar odd, bubbles just stop. No EOTD.


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## Alje

In answer to

John P Coates
I needed a new reg and got a lot for my money from CO2 Art who give excellent customer service. I didn't really expect it to be a 'proper' Dual stage reg at that price. All that matters is that i don't get EOTD, and I will avoid allowing the tank pressure to drop to low, so only time will tell. If i want a proper hairy balls Dual stage reg then I expect to pay a lot more than £50. I have a kind of fetish for the Custom/high end Dual stages for sale @Barr report Trades,swaps and sales but I just can't justify paying that much for a CO2 regulator to run one tank. If I had multiple planted tanks maybe.
Like my mum says, 'I've got champagne tastes but only beer money' and i do like the best kit.
It seems to me there is a lot of over information/myth surrounding CO2 problems put out there.

John S
The reg is similar in size/design to other single stage regs that are available/I've owned and I can't see there being two diaphragms in the CO2 Art reg. But I'm happy to be proved wrong by someone who knows more than I do (which ain't much) Either way I'm happy with the CO2 Art reg and the service I've received from them. And yes the working pressure is adjustable (blue dial on front of reg body) as well as fine adjustment with a needle valve.

It's possible that the best option is an electronic CO2 metering device, such as the 'Carbon Doser' from aquariumplants.com. You pays your money you makes your choice.


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## Karol

Hello all,

I can confirm that this is dual stage regulator. It does have 2 chambers from high pressure to mid pressure then to low pressure,which is more stable than one stage regulator.

I'll try to organise drawings for you.

Thanks!
Karol


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## Sacha

There we go guys- the confirmation we've been waiting for. 

Very impressive price for a dual stage. 

Thanks Karol


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## John P Coates

Karol said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I can confirm that this is dual stage regulator. It does have 2 chambers from high pressure to mid pressure then to low pressure,which is more stable than one stage regulator.
> 
> I'll try to organise drawings for you.
> 
> Thanks!
> Karol


Hi Karol...drawings would be useful.


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## John S

Thanks Alje and Karol for the responses


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## Alje

Sacha, I will wait for the drawings/internal photos


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## Simon Day

I bought one of these 4 months ago from CO2Art and have found it to be a really good bit of kit for the money. I had an initial problem with the unit buzzing when energised but this was soon sorted out by dismantling the cover on the actuator pin and stretching the spring a little to give more tension (top tip from the helpful people at CO2Art). Control of bps seems to be fine with needle valve allowing good adjustment - i have not had to adjust settings for 3 months. Coupled this with a bazooka type diffuser and the whole thing seems to be very efficient (soda stream bottle still going strong after 4 months but it is a small tank). Compared to using one of the 95g disposable cartridge type units i initially used this new setup is 1000% better I think. Planning to buy another for my next tank.


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## Rob P

I've just run an FE completely dead on mine and no problems at all


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## Andy Thurston

Rob P said:


> I've just run an FE completely dead on mine and no problems at all


Does that make you the first person on ukaps to empty a tank with this reg Rob


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## Rob P

i dunno, is there a prize if I am?


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## Alje

Still waiting for the drawings......


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## FlyingHellFish

Single Stage



Dual Stage



Quad Stage




(I'm just kidding about the Quad stage)


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## Alje

Thanks Flyinghellfish, but I was referring to the technical drawings of the 'Dual stage regulator' CO2 Art sell and that Karol@CO2 Art was going to try and organise for us.
It is because of the differences between the body of single stage/dual stage regulators and the body of the 'CO2 Art Dual stage regulator' that I queried if it is a Dual stage in the first place!


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## Karol

Hello,

I'm afraid we won't be able to provide drawings. 
I discussed this with our development team and we decided that we won't share it with public.
This is very unique construction and sharing design (on which we worked quite long time) wouldn't be good idea. 

As for today, all what we can offer is 100% money back guarantee if this regulator won't work for you as dual stage regulator.

I hope this helps.

Best regards
Karol


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## Alje

What's that smell?


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## Andy Thurston

Smells like good business sense to me. I wouldn't want my drawings on an open forum for a competitor to copy/read freely. Its a small neat and for the price its got to be worth a try even without the cash back guarantee.
If I were one of the few people that suffers from eotd I would take that chance


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## parotet

Big clown said:


> Smells like good business sense to me. I wouldn't want my drawings on an open forum for a competitor to copy/read freely. Its a small neat and for the price its got to be worth a try even without the cash back guarantee.
> If I were one of the few people that suffers from eotd I would take that chance



IMO CO2 art has the best customer service I have ever seen. They have been helpful when I had doubts, fast in delivery (even to Spain ) and it is one of the most active sponsors in this forum. Charity auctions, improvements to their own products, free offers to  customers that bought products that are able to be improved, betta testers... Man I think these guys know what they do. This is business 

Jordi


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## parotet

This was a double post... Sorry


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## John P Coates

Karol said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm afraid we won't be able to provide drawings.
> I discussed this with our development team and we decided that we won't share it with public.
> This is very unique construction and sharing design (on which we worked quite long time) wouldn't be good idea.
> 
> As for today, all what we can offer is 100% money back guarantee if this regulator won't work for you as dual stage regulator.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Best regards
> Karol


OK, that's understandable - to a point. If your design is patented, you probably have little to be concerned about. But, can you not demonstrate that your design is superior to a single-stage regulator by devising a simple experiment? An EOTD is caused by a single-stage regulator's inability to regulate the cylinder pressure as this pressure gets low. So, all that is needed are graphs showing how your regulator performs compared with a single-stage regulator. If I had one of your products, I would do the experiment myself. Indeed, if such graphs were available from CO2Art, I would have bought one of your regulators with no hesitation.


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## Andy Thurston

If you wanted to check for EOTD you can open the needle valve fully, open solenoid, open fe/cylinder, close fe/cylinder and wait until the pressure drops, you will be able to hear the flow increase as the cylinder empties but eotd may or may not happen once connected and set up


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## Karol

Hello,

We have good news (to all people who needs proof), below you will find drawings of our dual stage regulator. If you will find poor copies very soon, don't blame us


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## John P Coates

These drawings show two different products. The upper drawing is a single-stage, dual-gauge product (there is just one pressure reduction chamber). The lower drawing shows a dual-stage product with no gauges (it has two pressure reduction chambers). Confusing.


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## Karol

This is same product, but from different views. First drawing is 1st stage (front view), second drawing 2nd stage (bottom view). 

As I mentioned before this is very unique construction.


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## Andy Thurston

John P Coates said:


> These drawings appear to show two different products. The upper drawing is a single-stage, dual-gauge product (there is just one pressure reduction chamber). The lower drawing shows a dual-stage product with no gauges (it has two pressure reduction chambers).


Someone needs to learn how to read drawings. One is a front sectional view and the other side sectional view


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## John P Coates

Big clown said:


> Someone needs to learn how to read drawings. One is a front sectional view and the other side sectional view


I am very capable of reading drawings. If you were to turn the front view (top) onto its side (bottom), there is no way that the stage marked '12 bar' could end up being central. Understand?


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## Karol

I'm sorry I don't understand your point.

I strongly suggest to take our regulator in hand to fully understand this construction. 

*I can confirm this is dual stage regulator, both drawings are for one regulator and we build all our dual stage regulators based on this drawing. If something is wrong with this drawing, our regulator simply wouldn't work.*


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## Sacha

Why are we still trying to discredit Karol's claims? He has provided a clear diagram that plainly shows a dual stage regulator.


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## John P Coates

John P Coates said:


> I am very capable of reading drawings. If you were to turn the front view (top) onto its side (bottom), there is no way that the stage marked '12 bar' could end up being central. Understand?


I am unable to edit the above post. So, I am replying to it instead! I have to admit that I made a mistake - sorry! I will now crawl back into my shell! Once again, sorry!


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## Karol

Thank you! 

Now...if someone who follow this topic is interested in dual stage regulator, please visit below link 

http://www.co2art.co.uk/products/aquarium-co2-dual-stage-regulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve


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## Sacha

Thanks Karol. 

But are you sure it is dual stage?


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## Andy Thurston

John P Coates said:


> I am unable to edit the above post. So, I am replying to it instead! I have to admit that I made a mistake - sorry! I will now crawl back into my shell! Once again, sorry!


Dont worry about it i thought the same initially till i realized they were sectional views and i make my living reading engineering drawings. My posting style doesnt help


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## Rob P

My CO2 Art Dual Stage reg, i have to say, has been working perfectly, even with the standard bog basic needle valve attached. I set it going on a new cylinder haven't touched it for weeks now and it's ultra reliable. 

It has already run one FE completely flat with no issue at all.

Absolute bargain for 50 quid or whatever it was


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## papa_c

I bought one of these and I can vouch for the quality and function. It is used in conjunction with a disposable cylinder adaptor and welding gas cylinder.

My feeling is you don't often find customer service to a level delivered by CO2 Art, I would recommend them and you can buy with confidence if my experience is their standard.


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## george dicker

im about to get one, am iright in thinking you need the adapter to fit onto a normal cylinder


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## tim

george dicker said:


> im about to get one, am iright in thinking you need the adapter to fit onto a normal cylinder


Co2 art regs come with standard din 477 fitting George, will fit standard bottles ie fire extinguisher, aquarium specific 500g bottles, you'll only need an adapter to run them on soda stream or paintball or disposable welding canisters etc, hope this helps.


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## Andy Thurston

tim said:


> Co2 art regs come with standard din 477 fitting George, will fit standard bottles ie fire extinguisher, aquarium specific 500g bottles, you'll only need an adapter to run them on soda stream or paintball or disposable welding canisters etc, hope this helps.


co2art give the option of din477 or cga fitting on the regs but sodastream need an adapter


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