# What am I doing wrong?



## Something Fishy (28 Mar 2018)

Hi guys

Having a bit of a mare.

I have upped to a 2 bps injection of CO2 and keep doing heaving water changing, using ferts daily too and keep lifting for 5 hours 14w in a 22l tiny tank. Had huge algae issues with leave for months but never with co2 and now drop checkers not changing at all and plant leaves don’t seem to be improving.  Thanks.















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## Konsa (28 Mar 2018)

Hi 
14w is overkill  for the size of the tank.U have too much light cooking the plants and not enough established plant mass to take it.
I have small tank like yours (mine is low tech tho)with arcadia strech led 11w wich is not one of the very bright lights for the watts.. And had difficult start with it .Added floaters and a bucket of plants and serious cleaning crew till it balanced itself out .Try to lift the light higher if U dont have option to dim it.
Will U please post a full tank shot.
Regards Konsa


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## Something Fishy (28 Mar 2018)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> 14w is overkill  for the size of the tank.U have too much light cooking the plants and not enough established plant mass to take it.
> I have small tank like yours (mine is low tech tho)with arcadia strech led 11w wich is not one of the very bright lights for the watts.. And had difficult start with it .Added floaters and a bucket of plants and serious cleaning crew till it balanced itself out .Try to lift the light higher if U dont have option to dim it.
> Will U please post a full tank shot.
> Regards Konsa



Thanks Konsa will do mate.

Hard one for me as the tank originally was doing really well and the plants have been growing under these lights, But it’s almost like the edges and patches of brown dust on the leaves.

I can dim the light yeah - you recon have it on about half or? 7w or so. I have MC carpeting too on the floor which is doing not so bad.

Puzzled too why thas drop checker isn’t changing colour :/

Thanks


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## Konsa (28 Mar 2018)

Hi
Its all trial and observations.U can drop light a third down as a start and reduce more if needed.U want sth fast growing in there too.
Dont worry about MC it doesn't need that much light anyway.About drop checker try to inspect for leaks of the Co2 system and change the solution U are using.For that size tank it should not be difficult to get the CO2 right.
Regards Konsa


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## dw1305 (29 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 
Do you have hard water? (I know Torbay does). If you do? It might be worth trying a different chelator for iron (Fe), and or some magnesium addition (if you ferts. don't include it).

cheers Darrel


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## Something Fishy (29 Mar 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Do you have hard water? (I know Torbay does). If you do? It might be worth trying a different chelator for iron (Fe), and or some magnesium addition (if you ferts. don't include it).
> 
> cheers Darrel



Good point mate. I think we have fairly soft here don’t we? I have a tester at home I think so could tell you?

Could that affect co2? I’ve never had a problem with it before :/

Thanks


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## Edvet (29 Mar 2018)

Hardness doesn't effect CO2 solvability ( only the resulting pH changes)


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## Something Fishy (29 Mar 2018)

Edvet said:


> Hardness doesn't effect CO2 solvability ( only the resulting pH changes)



I presumed as much, so shouldn’t be related? I’m baffled why I’m not getting any changes in drop checker, bought new solutions too.


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## Edvet (29 Mar 2018)

If you have 4KH water in the DC and it doesn't change color you 1) need to improve flow and distribution in the tank or 2) improve amount of CO2
A pH profile with an electronic device ( pen or meter) will give some more info


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## Something Fishy (29 Mar 2018)

Edvet said:


> If you have 4KH water in the DC and it doesn't change color you 1) need to improve flow and distribution in the tank or 2) improve amount of CO2
> A pH profile with an electronic device ( pen or meter) will give some more info



I’ll try another dropper tonight with a new mix in there as it could be a premixed solution that was cheap not working. 2bps is super high though right for a 22l tank? I have a med sized canister on it blasted the return into the diffuser.

I’ve used this setup before and would expect at least a bit of shift of colour :/

Thanks


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## dw1305 (29 Mar 2018)

Hi all, 





Something Fishy said:


> Could that affect co2? I’ve never had a problem with it before


Not directly. 





Something Fishy said:


> I have a tester at home I think so could tell you?


You should be able to get details from your water providers web site, via your postcode for your tap water.  I thought the rocks might be limestone? a conductivity value for the tank would be useful, or the dKH.  

It looks like plant growth has stalled, as you are using EI, and adding CO2, it is likely to be a deficiency of a micro-element. Plants need differing amounts of all the <"17 elements essential for plant growth">, but they have a requirement for all of them, and the amount of one of them will, nearly always, be limiting. If it is <"severely limiting">, you don't get any growth 

This is why I use a floating plant for the duckweed index because it takes light (PAR) and CO2 out of the equation. Using EI removes the macro-elements (N, P & K) from the equation.

Trying to pick micro-element deficiencies is a mug's game, but in hard water the most likely one is iron (Fe) mainly because it forms a lot of insoluble compounds (iron oxides, hydroxides, carbonates, phosphates etc.)  and we have to chelate it to keep it available. The most commonly used chelators are ferric gluconate (Seachem Iron) and FeEDTA, neither of which works very well at pH values above pH7.

Magnesium deficiencies can occur in either hard or soft water, but are easily rectified by adding "Epsom Salts" in either case. If you have very, very soft water then calcium deficiency is possible, but unlikely in any other case.

cheers Darrel


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## Something Fishy (29 Mar 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Not directly. You should be able to get details from your water providers web site, via your postcode for your tap water.  I thought the rocks might be limestone? a conductivity value for the tank would be useful, or the dKH.
> 
> It looks like plant growth has stalled, as you are using EI, and adding CO2, it is likely to be a deficiency of a micro-element. Plants need differing amounts of all the <"17 elements essential for plant growth">, but they have a requirement for all of them, and the amount of one of them will, nearly always, be limiting. If it is <"severely limiting">, you don't get any growth
> 
> ...



Great info thanks Darrel.

Maybe I’ll look at buying some Evo Aqua full ferts then and see if they help things. Maybe Amazonia had enough beige but now it’s running low? Growth was ace when I set it all up first :/ 

The bit that’s messing with my head the most is why the CO2 isn’t dissolving. Thinking about it I even had a Dennerle pump mixer with it in and it still wasn’t changing the drop checker back then! 

Cheers




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## Something Fishy (29 Mar 2018)

Full tank shots  lights have been dimmed to around half power (4 clicks out of 7) so I guess 14w light is now on about 8-9w. co2 on for ages and still no change to drop checkers. Added a third now with new mixed solution in. 





You can see the return pipe blasting the diffuser.

I’m dosing excel and tropica plant growth alternating daily. 

Also shot the water test with 17ppm being 1grain? So 48 would be just short of 3 grain.











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## dw1305 (29 Mar 2018)

Hi all,





Something Fishy said:


> Also shot the water test with 17ppm being 1grain? So 48 would be just short of 3 grain.


You can't say exactly which salts (ions) are contributing to the ppm TDS, but in the tap water (I assume it was your tap water, because of the temperature) they are likely to be mainly Ca++ and HCO3-.  

17 ppm CaCO3 is 1dKH, so even if it was all CaCO3, that is under 3 dGH/KH.

TDS meters really measure conductivity and 48ppm TDS is about 70 microS, so pretty soft water. What does the tank water read? I think the Tropica fertiliser contains all the essential nutrients, but probably not a lot of them.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (30 Mar 2018)

Last time I was checking specialised out I think it was quite low in nitrates if using EI as a comparison.


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## Something Fishy (30 Mar 2018)

Fair enough yeah, I’ll try a more comprehensive one like Evo Aqua that George raves about - could that really be the problem then here?

Still unsure about the co2 my only current conclusion is that the extinguisher I am using has somehow taken in air as it was basically empty so I’m not actually injecting co2. Otherwise I cannot make any sense why their would be no CO2 in the water accordingly to the drop checkers.

Is that browning and spotting on the leaves a sign of something as I’ve not really seen it quite right browsing on here!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (30 Mar 2018)

Hiya mate, it wouldn't take very long for any trapped air to get out of the system. We're probably talking a matter of hours here. You need to reset the tank and lowering the light is a step in the right direction to take the pressure off. Firstly I would check your connections on the co2 setup with soapy water and make sure there are no leaks. That being good get the drop checker with a fresh mix in and get it lower down near the substrate maybe a couple of inch up. Bubble rate means nothing, its just a good visual indicator of whether you turning it up or down has done much. Then start cranking up on the needle valve gradually over the next few days while you're about to observe until you get good colour when lights come on. forget the bubble rate, it is what it is , if you need 5 bps then that's where you need to be.

I would also trim off all the browning leaves, let them go and concentrate on new growth, the plants are wasting energy trying to repair them and the dying leaves are adding algae fuel into the water column. Ditching these leaves will also leave more goodies ferts/co2 for the survivors. If you want to use up your trop spec then increase the dose beyond what it says on the bottle maybe even 2x or 3x, I can't find the post now but last time I dug into it it is very weak in macros. Maybe even go down the route of the EA stuff or purchase some salts. Also, as Darrel said make sure you add some magnesium sulphate in the way of epsom salt. Very rare your tapwater or ferts have any in or in the ferts in trace amounts.

Keep this up for a month or so and if it improves look at maybe turning the light up another click...if you want that is.


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## Something Fishy (31 Mar 2018)

Thanks mate all sound advice.

I think the crypto may need to come out as healthy leaves on it arn’t really happening. It’s not grown any in months :/

Are these a good shout over the EA comprehensive as they seem much better value http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

Co2 still confusing as the bps before was 1 you see so 2 should be ample, plus I know it’s going in as diffuser is letting loads out which is being well mixed. I have 3 drop checkers now...

My obvious answer is I’m injecting waste air and not co2... I might pick up another canister and try that too.

Will keep lighting the same and look at the EI dry I think as next steps. Need to nail this as I have new tanks to setup  I have sumps to add too to this nano and the TMC signature! 


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## foxfish (31 Mar 2018)

You could test the PH to see if it drops when the gas is on.


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## Something Fishy (31 Mar 2018)

Was thinking the same fox actually, good shout. 


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## Jayefc1 (31 Mar 2018)

Hi had the same issue with the black edging around my plants thought it was bba my tank is 23l with good circulation I run my co2 at 1bps and ei dosed at 5ml macro 5ml micro alternate 5 days a week with 2 rest days and 50 percent water changes on Sunday when the plants established I got the black edging and searched on line all I had to do was increase my micro to 7.5 ml and within 2 week it was gone and my plants started pearlin like mad I did prune all the worst  leaves away so the new growh was getting the energy rather than the old growth hope this help had my chirios led on 5 of 7 the whole time and my co2 defuser at my intake Lilly to help spreading the bubble around more efficiently


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## Something Fishy (31 Mar 2018)

Jayefc1 said:


> Hi had the same issue with the black edging around my plants thought it was bba my tank is 23l with good circulation I run my co2 at 1bps and ei dosed at 5ml macro 5ml micro alternate 5 days a week with 2 rest days and 50 percent water changes on Sunday when the plants established I got the black edging and searched on line all I had to do was increase my micro to 7.5 ml and within 2 week it was gone and my plants started pearlin like mad I did prune all the worst  leaves away so the new growh was getting the energy rather than the old growth hope this help had my chirios led on 5 of 7 the whole time and my co2 defuser at my intake Lilly to help spreading the bubble around more efficiently



It does mate, a lot. Thank you. Would be cool to see some pics of that bad boy!

Will try some of these comments and keep you guys posted, you using the same chihiros as I am with the black finish, 14w? When you say you increased micro - was that dosing EI daily, or still alt? Was thinking of making some EI mix with everything in there to make it easier? Seems that George Farmers recommended EA bottle would cost a bomb over 3 tanks dosing daily, bottle a week pretty much! 

That’s heavy dosing too dude what plants are you running - will you reduce once they recover?

Also thought the same to run in into the intake so it mixes in the filter actually! 

Cheers


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## Jayefc1 (31 Mar 2018)

Yeah I made a mix up and dose alternate days 3 days macro 2 days micro just increased the dose on micro days and the light a series still have some black edging on the anubus but it grows so slow so didnt wanna cut them off '


 got all my salts aquarium plant food UK and followed there mix enough salts for about 3 years for 25 quid


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## Jayefc1 (31 Mar 2018)

Just a thought have u read ceg 4048 EI dosing and dry salts sticky it is pretty interesting stuff on here had to read it like 10 times to proper understand it well some of it lol


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 Mar 2018)

Jayefc1 said:


> Just a thought have u read ceg 4048 EI dosing and dry salts sticky it is pretty interesting stuff on here had to read it like 10 times to proper understand it well some of it lol


There isn't a lot to understand with EI salt dosing. The only thing that needs to be understood is if you add the suggested amounts there is more fertiliser in your tank than you will ever need. Understanding done 

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## Something Fishy (1 Apr 2018)

Ha fair point.

Awesome looking tank well done! Was looking at the same idea yeah. What else does the complete feet have do you know- and can that be easily added to the salts as well?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (1 Apr 2018)

Don't want to be the one who p1sses all over George's parade here, I follow his work and see he and many others are getting great results using those ferts, what the secret ingredient is or if there is one i don't know. What I do know is the same results can be achieved just using the raw chemicals. Comes down to whether you can be bothered mixing your own. On small tanks it can be cost effective.

When the salts are added at the correct amounts there's no need for anything else. You could use up your existing trop spec as traces and boost with salt if you want and get some traces later. I think rotala butterfly tells you what's in the trop spec so it would just be a case of working out what it's short of.

Sadly Ae ferts have found themselves in the realm of poacher come game keeper unless they tell you a good reason why their ferts are any different.


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## Jayefc1 (1 Apr 2018)

There just like modern day life the easier it is the more it costs it's that simple and we do have to remember George is prob sponsored by the the company a on his u tube channel and mixing ur own is a lil scary for us novices  but at least u are in control and know exactly what it putting in to ur tank


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## foxfish (1 Apr 2018)

Nothing difficult about mixing your own....


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## Something Fishy (1 Apr 2018)

These guys probably the best to buy from chaps do you think?

Agree 100% we can all appreciate George’s position and I’m sure the Fertilisers are top notch no doubt, saw a video he did explaining them and it’s been made right, but as you said sponsorship and loyalty play a part but that’s also commendable if the gear is something you’re proud of.

My plans to fix the tank moving forward:

1. But and mix my own EI salts and create some ferts - possibly all in one as George seems to have great success dosing with this method?
2. Keep the lighting down to 4 notches out of 7 to allow plants to recover.
3. Change all the drop checkers, do another 50% change and buy a new co2 cannister to make sure. If checkers don’t change then I will do what Foxfish said and test for Ph.
4. Use my new NEO diffusers recommended by George and see if they obtain better diffusion.
5. Hopefully see a huge difference in the tank!

Thanks everyone will keep this updated


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## Jayefc1 (1 Apr 2018)

That's who I got mine from bye the starter pack had bottles and every thing in even a card with quantities telling u how to mix and was delivered within 3 days only made 1  mix and i got mine in October


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## Jayefc1 (1 Apr 2018)

Should still read cegs sticky here explains a lot


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## Something Fishy (1 Apr 2018)

Jayefc1 said:


> Should still read cegs sticky here explains a lot



Read it mate thanks. Will have a reread though and get some ordered


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## AverageWhiteBloke (1 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> These guys probably the best to buy from chaps do you think?
> 
> Agree 100% we can all appreciate George’s position and I’m sure the Fertilisers are top notch no doubt, saw a video he did explaining them and it’s been made right, but as you said sponsorship and loyalty play a part but that’s also commendable if the gear is something you’re proud of.
> 
> ...


It's just a process of elimination mate. There are 4 things you can do here to eliminate possible issues.

First and foremost is run a tight ship. Dirty gravel, filter medium and water create organic fuel for algae to feed off so that should be first on list.

Secondly ferts, the principle of EI is to add all that's necessary in quantities that you tank is highly unlikely to need so you can then rule that out. 

Third starts getting complicated is dosing co2, using a combination of the PH pen and drop checker to work out if there is the correct amount in the tank when the lights come on which is just trial and error then adjust.

Lastly are all these ferts and co2 getting round to all these plants. Check the flow, are there dead spots in the tank. Trim plants or adjust outlets to make sure. 

Once you have 2 to 4 locked down keep on top of 1

Dosing salt isn't that much of a hassle, if you can make a cup of coffee you can do EI dosing.

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## Something Fishy (1 Apr 2018)

Sounds good thanks 

6 hours ok for lighting on that setting as well? Try it on that and adjust accordingly I suppose.

Do people change things up as the seasons differ with lighting?


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## Something Fishy (5 Apr 2018)

Lighting is now reduced and on 6 hours a day, as the mc carpet is still newish anyway so shouldn’t hurt?

Browning on the edges of leaves is too much light right?

Started dosing EI now too 5ml a day see how that goes...

Brand new CO2 extinguisher added on, 1.5bps and constant stream of fine bubbles going into filter intake and around the tank. None of the drop checkers started to change even slightly. 

Ph is at 7.4 after two hours of running the co2, was around 8 before? Tap water is 8.2

Cheers chaps


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> Lighting is now reduced and on 6 hours a day, as the mc carpet is still newish anyway so shouldn’t hurt?
> 
> Browning on the edges of leaves is too much light right?
> 
> ...


Getting there mate. Browning of leaves is sort of too much light or more specific, too much light for the nutrients you're providing. Turning lights down reduces the amount of ferts needed but as mentioned earlier I would chop these leaves off, I don't think they'll repair.

Not sure what you mean by dosing 5ml of EI? If dosing 5ml is EI levels then you're good. EI is the level of ferts, there's no variations. You're either dosing EI or you aren't. 

The word on the street is you should aim for 1ph drop by lights on which should give you about 30ppm of co2 dissolved. Measuring co2 is a simple affair but not very accurate so you have to correlate the two ways we measure. I would say if the DC isn't green and not quite a one unit drop as in 8 to 7 I would add an extra half hour earlier start if you're on a timer or give the needle valve another slight tweak up.

Bare in mind the PH pen will generally measure slightly high as you are sample at the top of the water column where co2 is at its highest on its bid to escape into the atmosphere. The DC will also show what was going on a hour or two ago as there is a delay in the chemical changing colour but the DC is or should be lower in the column so gives a better idea of what's going on down there.

No need to obsess though with the decimal points of ph.

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## Something Fishy (5 Apr 2018)

Hey bud thanks for the response!

Yes sorry by EI I meant the EI solution mixes so macros and micros alternating each day 5ml as my tanks 22l.

Yeah I gathered the browning could be ferts too as I’ve been keep water changed super often so it’s probably quite sparse in there for the lighting so turning it down could be a good move anyway til things pick up!

Gas comes on about half 4 now and lights about half hour later. Never ever had a problem before with the DCs but this time I’m just seeing no change which is bizzare. Maybe it’s as simple as the solutions being wrong I was sent from HK, and the other one is just not working either.

How fast does ph drop after lights out? I could test again during night. You’re right about top of the tank but thought it was a best case scenario as it’s still not showing signs of co2.

I have the aqua one 700 cannister on this so for a 22l tank the flow should be fine!

Chopping leaves where possible but on the Crypto and the Anubias there will be none left soon as they keep browning as I’m cutting them haha. The MC is recovering in places but also starting to turn brown on leaf edges!

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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> Hey bud thanks for the response!
> 
> Yes sorry by EI I meant the EI solution mixes so macros and micros alternating each day 5ml as my tanks 22l.
> 
> ...


Are you saying lights come on half an hour after the co2 switches on or have I picked that up wrong. Co2 should come on 2 or 3 hours before the lights mate.

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## Something Fishy (5 Apr 2018)

Ah ok - maybe I’ll switch that on a bit earlier then and have it coming in a bit sooner! Only a small tank you see so it used to get pretty green DC in hour or so which surprised me.

Like I said makes sense, but I’ve ran co2 on this for so long and never seen the DCs like this. Really confusing me.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2018)

Ahh you could be on to something here mate. The co2 should be on a couple of hours before the lights to give the gas time to dissolve into the water. The plants will start soaking up the co2 and when the lights kick in they'll use it for grow. 

If the gas doesn't have time to dissolve the lights come on and the plants have nothing to use so will grab what little gas there is as it comes in which would maybe explain the DC not changing colour or if it is will be much later on maybe even when the lights have gone off.

Doesn't explain your ph drop measured with the pen mind you but thats still low anyway.

Definitely start injecting earlier mate and see how that affects the DC. Thing is with a 6 hour period and the DC being a couple of hours behind it won't get much opportunity to change before the lights go off.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (5 Apr 2018)

Just a thought, you're using a 4dkh premixed solution with bromo blue right?

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## Jayefc1 (6 Apr 2018)

My co2 comes on 2 hrs before lights so dc is green when lights come on how often u doin water changes cause every water change ressets ur ferts as u take them out


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## Something Fishy (6 Apr 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Just a thought, you're using a 4dkh premixed solution with bromo blue right?
> 
> Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk



Yeah that’s right and then some ready made ones too that came from HK - premixed


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## AverageWhiteBloke (6 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> Yeah that’s right and then some ready made ones too that came from HK - premixed



What colour is the stuff that came from HK? I got some from China a long time ago which was orange and had bother getting a reading.



Jayefc1 said:


> My co2 comes on 2 hrs before lights so dc is green when lights come on how often u doin water changes cause every water change ressets ur ferts as u take them out



The ferts will always be enough or higher than required with EI dosing if you dose after water changes. The principle of it is never to run out or have less than can be used in one day.

If you look at EI dosing taken from the UKAPS Article, essentially if you add the following weekly to your tank your tank couldn't possibly use up that much fertiliser at very high lighting is the theory. I say theory but pretty much tried and tested.

Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week
Iron (Fe) 0.5ppm per week

So for instance, in the case of nitrate divide the 20ppm up into 7days and your tank could only get through 2.8ppm per day. We usually divide the 20ppm into three doses and dose alternative days, for me I do Saturday water change and dose the Macros NPK right after it and Monday and Wednesday then dose the Traces Sun, Tues, Thursday leaving Friday as a day off. So if you dose right after the water change the dose is roughly 7ppm or 6.66ppm if you're that way out, considering the tank can only use 2.8ppm per day as you can see you will never not have enough ferts. That's how EI works. Same applies to all the other ferts in that list. It's a belt and braces approach to fertiliser. 

As long as you've mixed it properly or adding the recommended amount dry in the guide where you got them whatever issue you're having in your tank right now you can rule out it being ferts and concentrate on the co2 and cleanliness bit. I tend to use james planted tank guide for dosing which is nice and simple, just tell it how much water is in your tank and let it tell you how much to dose based on the weekly parameters above divided by three if your are going to dose alternate days.

Just bare in mind that EI is based on a max amount so chances are you might need less. If you have issues best dose EI, when you don't have issues you can if you want try dosing a little less and see how that pans out but unless you're keeping very sofwater fish and want to keep the hardness of your water down there's little point. Ferts are that cheap when bought dry and your tank isn't massive.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (6 Apr 2018)

Just to add to that, if you fancy some extra water changes say mid week as well which is a good thing as it removes more organic waste which algae thrive off just do the same again on a macro day, change some water and then dose again preferably before the lights and co2 have came on. Nothing lost except maybe some traces on that day but traces are of lesser importance and they get replenished the next day anyway.


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## Something Fishy (6 Apr 2018)

Update for tonight chaps 

I’m using fresh 4dkh with 3 drops of API ph checker normal range  brom blue now just to be sure.

View Vid showing co2

Gas going in fast as you can see, lighting on 4 clicks out of 7 to make sure. You can see the edges of the leaves and how bad they all are.

Cheers 


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## Something Fishy (7 Apr 2018)

Missed your reply dude sorry!

Yeah it’s blue they all are? ... so much co2 tonight and still no change. Blizzare. Almost want to test in a sealed box to ensure it can go green and stop me going mad ha!

Cleanliness I’m pretty good at and I’m dosing macro micro EI now alternating 5ml a day with rest day. Water change twice a week 50%.


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## rebel (7 Apr 2018)

Hey man, you need to give at least 2 weeks between changes to make sure the changes are working for you.


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## foxfish (7 Apr 2018)

Have you done a ph test yet?


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## Something Fishy (7 Apr 2018)

foxfish said:


> Have you done a ph test yet?



Hey man

Yeah posted a bit higher up, it was around 7.8 dormant , and 7.4 last time I tested. Changes every time though and depending on the time of day.

I’ll do a test today before I got out and then another later after co2 has been on for a few hours?


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## Something Fishy (7 Apr 2018)

rebel said:


> Hey man, you need to give at least 2 weeks between changes to make sure the changes are working for you.



Hi mate, what do you mean - wait between water changes?

I just figured I’m getting out the previous water and keeping it fresh, dosing too of course! My main current confusion is the co2 not dissolving seemingly at all.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (7 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> I just figured I’m getting out the previous water and keeping it fresh, dosing too of course! My main current confusion is the co2 not dissolving seemingly at all.



Like @foxfish says mate do a PH test with your pen starting before co2 comes on the every half hours throughout your lighting period and let us know the results, your tank has good surface agitation which will gas off a fair bit of the co2 but keep the water well oxygenated. The oxygen side of things is a good thing but you pay the price of needing more co2 to get that drop. If you are getting a decent drop on the ph pen you may need to look at why the drop checker fluid isn't playing ball. I saw someone on here once breathing into a dc once and the co2 exhaled was enough to change the colour, maybe worth a try. Also maybe put a bit more fluid in it and hold something white like a plastic ruler or spoon behind it so you can get a better look at the colour. Some of these fluids are hard to get a reading on as the tank lights and reflections from lights affect the colour. I think the JBL and dennerle ones have a white plastic insert to get a better reading. Not as sexy looking in the tank but more practical.

Other than that i think the tank and what you are doing is fine


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## Something Fishy (7 Apr 2018)

Tested Ph now pre co2, 7.4

Waiting for the second test afterwards once it’s been on for a few hours again


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## Something Fishy (7 Apr 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Like @foxfish says mate do a PH test with your pen starting before co2 comes on the every half hours throughout your lighting period and let us know the results, your tank has good surface agitation which will gas off a fair bit of the co2 but keep the water well oxygenated. The oxygen side of things is a good thing but you pay the price of needing more co2 to get that drop. If you are getting a decent drop on the ph pen you may need to look at why the drop checker fluid isn't playing ball. I saw someone on here once breathing into a dc once and the co2 exhaled was enough to change the colour, maybe worth a try. Also maybe put a bit more fluid in it and hold something white like a plastic ruler or spoon behind it so you can get a better look at the colour. Some of these fluids are hard to get a reading on as the tank lights and reflections from lights affect the colour. I think the JBL and dennerle ones have a white plastic insert to get a better reading. Not as sexy looking in the tank but more practical.
> 
> Other than that i think the tank and what you are doing is fine


Yeah all makes sense mate will keep and eye on the ph! Like I say all makes sense what you have said but I’ve got 3 now all with different solutions so something’s wrong :/


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## Something Fishy (8 Apr 2018)

Hey guys

So tested now co2 been on for couple of hours - 6.4 now? ... so it’s changed by 1

Drop checkers still all blue - one with 4dkh and api ph tester brom - and the other a premixed solution from HK.

Both not changed at all...









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## rebel (9 Apr 2018)

Go with the pH drop rather than drop checker colours. To be honest, ideally you should use a pH meter rather than those solutions. Otherwise just check that the plants are responding and leave it at that.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (9 Apr 2018)

Very strange though


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## foxfish (9 Apr 2018)

You could stick you DC in a class & stick the C02 in the glass and see what happens.


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## Something Fishy (15 Apr 2018)

Good idea yeah! I upped it the other day but still barely green even when super high. Struggling to maintain bps too on extinguisher with the needle valve - do I need a better dual gauge one for more control?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Apr 2018)

You can buy a more precise needle valve separately and just have the existing one on the reg fully open. I have a reg set that's a bit feast and famine so I bought a separate inline one, have the existing one fully open and first in the line then use the second one for adjusting. The one's I linked there are just an example from one of our sponsors, I have no experience of using them but I think I  have one of the Commozi one's knocking about which I haven't used in a long time but from what I can remember it was a little bit better than the one I had. Maybe try asking for recommendations in the co2 section of the forum, I think a few people buy these from gas fitting suppliers a bit cheaper so maybe somebody there could tell you their experiences.


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## Something Fishy (16 Apr 2018)

Thanks dude. I was thinking of using a straight gas one first yeah then the second. Other way I thought was to use a jubilee clip on extinguisher handle and not full open it thus letting out less pressure. Might work?


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## Something Fishy (20 Apr 2018)

Update chaps!

I will look into buying a more precise needle as the co2 is really not being consistent with the small single one.  I have upped it to almost 3bps and now finally I have some green DCs going on! The plants already look better and I’m changing water weekly and dosing daily right now. Things are picking up!

I was thinking of using sumps for my tanks to put all the gear in there and add the algae doctor, co2, doser for ferts, etc but do you think that’s a good plan or will it gain little as I need to change water weekly anyway?

Wasn’t sure as id also have the sump water level to worry about and the co2, but it just seems sooooo much more inefficient intank - why do people use the in tanks ones?

I bought the NEO as George recommended it but it seems so much wasted gas for such a tiny tank. I have a 350l in the pipeline and I feel like I’d be forever buying more gas for it :/


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## Something Fishy (22 Apr 2018)

Also if leaves are browning still with me adding ferts is that me choosing lower light plants under too high light? 

The carpet seems to be taking better but the others - a few crypts and red stem plants are still showing brown edges on new leaves. 


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## AverageWhiteBloke (23 Apr 2018)

I would put some pictures up if you can mate.


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## Something Fishy (25 Apr 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I would put some pictures up if you can mate.



Ok mate here you go










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## Something Fishy (25 Apr 2018)

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## Something Fishy (25 Apr 2018)

Very tips of the leaves on the edges mostly all the plants have it even new growth since upping ferts and co2 and dimming the light :/ 


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## Something Fishy (25 Apr 2018)

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## sciencefiction (27 Apr 2018)

To me it looks like a combination of lack of ferts issue and too much light for the low mass of plants. You can test the tank with some floaters. The stunted new growth can also be caused by lack of nitrates, when severe. I've had that in low tech tanks as I don't tend to dose nitrates. Basically all the leaves are smaller overall. Dose some more nitrates and the new growth should explode. Obviously, a similar issue can be caused my lack of micro nutrients but seeing that the old growth also has tiny leaves, it's more likely a nitrogen issue. I'd definitely, on a temporary basis throw in a big bunch of something floating to increase the plant mass...


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## Something Fishy (27 Apr 2018)

sciencefiction said:


> To me it looks like a combination of lack of ferts issue and too much light for the low mass of plants. You can test the tank with some floaters. The stunted new growth can also be caused by lack of nitrates, when severe. I've had that in low tech tanks as I don't tend to dose nitrates. Basically all the leaves are smaller overall. Dose some more nitrates and the new growth should explode. Obviously, a similar issue can be caused my lack of micro nutrients but seeing that the old growth also has tiny leaves, it's more likely a nitrogen issue. I'd definitely, on a temporary basis throw in a big bunch of something floating to increase the plant mass...



Thanks mate do you thinking turning down lights is a shout then? ‘Coz it’s a nano tank I feel the water changes maybe quite an aggressive removal of ferts but I’m dosing 7.5ml a day alternating macro micro is that not enough? Seems too much for the amount of plants I have but the MC carpet is spreading well but also starting to burn on edges.

I’ve turned the light down to like notch 4 out of 7 - I can try 3? Is that still too high do you think? Other than that co2 is good and flow is high!


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## Something Fishy (27 Apr 2018)

Something Fishy said:


> Thanks mate do you thinking turning down lights is a shout then? ‘Coz it’s a nano tank I feel the water changes maybe quite an aggressive removal of ferts but I’m dosing 7.5ml a day alternating macro micro is that not enough? Seems too much for the amount of plants I have but the MC carpet is spreading well but also starting to burn on edges.
> 
> I’ve turned the light down to like notch 3 out of 7 - I can try notch 2? Is that still too high do you think? So will the plants take more light as they root better too? Other than that co2 is good and flow is high!
> 
> ...






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## sciencefiction (27 Apr 2018)

I'd do one thing at a time. I'd turn down the light first. It will also reduce the nutrient demand a bit. See how that goes for a week,  Then decide from then on. If you're injecting CO2, a week is even too long and you should see a better plant response within days.


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## Something Fishy (27 Apr 2018)

Great stuff thanks mate I’ve got the light on step 2 of 7 now and will keep the rest as is and see what happens!


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## Something Fishy (9 May 2018)

Hey guys

So cheeky update after around a week of lower still light things are still growing well - noticing some melting on the MC though amongst new growth - normal?

Co2 has been high pretty solidly before during and after lights and getting pale greens. Roughly 1bps inside the actual NEO diffuser unit rather than other bubble counters I’ve found inaccurate!

So still seeing tiny blacky brown edges to some leaves which could be a bit from the brighter light before but sure some are new! Can’t find anything at all online for this which is baffling me, as it would seem to be common imo?

Not really algae as I’m changing water 50% a week and dosing 7.5ml macro micro daily.

Could it be that being a 22l taking half out strips too many nutrients? Kinda unsure what else could be causing the black edges now.

I know before I did less water changes the MC still did this so I don’t think it’s that either.
















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