# The Cube



## planter (21 Apr 2008)

Its been a long time coming but ive finaly started my cube tank up again. I decided whilst it was empty to treat myself to an Opti white glass aquarium (same dimensions). The tank size and the cabinet suit the lounge so this keeps the wife happy. An Opti white glass tank had to have glass inflo and out flow pipes (didnt it?) and a a glass diffuser to match which was all piped up with clear hose so now im a proper 'tank tart'   

*Tank:* 55cm x 50cm x 45cm (almost a cube)
*Lighting: *4 x 24 watt T5
*Substrate :* Eco complete
*Co2: *Jbl pressurised
*Filtration:* Eheim professional thermo 2228 

*The Tank -*









Decided to try Eco complete having read so many good things about it. Only thing i didnt consider was that with it being live I would have to work fast. Usually I like to take a week or so to get used to or tweak the hardscape. So not a lot of thought went into the layout and as a consequence im not happy with it at all at the moment.
However I did have a nice peice of wood put aside and the plants were here so it had to be done.









Plants include HC, Pogostemon Helferi and Rotala rotundifolia for starters
Great quality and value @ Â£3.50 and Â£2.50 per pot





HC all divided up and ready to plant -








Like I say im not happy with the scape at all so expect this one to change, Not even sure I like the peice of wood any more I think it might be too big! maybe ive just looked at it for too long. 



 





Early days and ill be happier about posting a full tank shot once ive planted a bit more.


----------



## George Farmer (22 Apr 2008)

Sexy!  

I would have considered splitting up the pots into more portions, but I have OCD when planting... 

The wood looks ok to me.  Remember that once the plants are mature, a lot of it will be hidden anyway.  

How do you find Aqua Distri in comparison to Tropica?  Much difference?


----------



## TDI-line (22 Apr 2008)

Looks great Planter.

Where do you get those speciality plants from?


----------



## daniel19831123 (22 Apr 2008)

3.50 per pot of p. helferi? Â£2.50 per pot of Hc? That's a bargain! Where on earth did you get that from? And those plant looks lush as well!


----------



## LondonDragon (22 Apr 2008)

The cube looks great and I do like the piece of wood. Bargain plants great find 
Keep us posted


----------



## Steve Smith (22 Apr 2008)

Those look like the labels used on plants in Maidenhead Aquatics   The one I've been too had an OK plant section (wasn't amazing).  They were at least attempting to keep the plants alive with halides and the quality was overall good.  I suspect had they been delivered recently they would be a lot nicer!  Still, it didn't stop me buying some 

Cube looks great Planter   I think I prefered the wood like this:


----------



## Dan Crawford (22 Apr 2008)

Way hey Planter you optiwhite, glass wearing tart you! LOL

I love the scape so far, great potential.

You've gotta be happy with the plants at those prices, i bought some HC from MA the other day for Â£2.50 a pot. I intend to get a load more from TGM mail order (although im skint) so maybe i'll see the difference.

I'm with George with the planting of the HC, stem by stem. But thats only coz that was how i was taught, i've never done it the way you have, maybe i'll give that a go too.

Nice one pal, this one looks set to be a stunner.


----------



## planter (22 Apr 2008)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Sexy!
> 
> I would have considered splitting up the pots into more portions, but I have OCD when planting...
> 
> ...




A ha I know a fellow  tank tart when i see one   

George the Aqua distri plants IMO are as good as Tropica in quality and they are now starting to supply HC, Pogostemon and more recently Ultricularia. They are also a lot cheaper!!
I know you guys like the Tropica stuff, I do too (fantastic quality) but they shouldnt be considered as the 'only' decent plant supplier. 


			
				daniel19831123 said:
			
		

> 3.50 per pot of p. helferi? Â£2.50 per pot of Hc? That's a bargain! Where on earth did you get that from? And those plant looks lush as well!



Seeing as you asked    The plants came from Maidenhead aquatics @ Morden.  The HC And pogostemon were Â£3.50 the rotalas were Â£2.50 

As for the scape im living with it at the mo. Got some more plants arriving this week so i will see how it alll pans out.

Thanks for all your comments


----------



## planter (22 Apr 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Way hey Planter you optiwhite, glass wearing tart you! LOL
> 
> I'm with George with the planting of the HC, stem by stem. But thats only coz that was how i was taught, i've never done it the way you have, maybe i'll give that a go too.
> 
> ...




Ahh you have a way with words Dan  
Im in training for next years comps lol!


----------



## aaronnorth (22 Apr 2008)

Looks good, my local MA stock godd quality lants aswell, they had a massive anubias that would be worth about Â£10 at least... Â£2.75   Shame it didn't have a place to go in my tank


----------



## Steve Smith (22 Apr 2008)

Which one was that Aaron?  I sometimes go to the one in Harlestone Heath Garden Centre, Harlestone Road.  A member of TFF works there, Stang1/Angie.  I noticed the massive anubias they had in several weeks back when I was there (I bought a smaller one )


----------



## aaronnorth (22 Apr 2008)

it's in dukeries garden centre at welbeck, worksop, i'm doing work experience there in may!


----------



## Arana (22 Apr 2008)

Lovely tank and very promising scape, looking forward to seeing it fill out mate. i'm going to be ordering an all opti white from the tgm myself soon just can't decide on the dimensions.
Those plants look like there from the grower "Aqua Fleur" when you get them fresh they are good quality.


----------



## Themuleous (22 Apr 2008)

Loving the scape, gonna look top notch once it gets going   glad you went with the wood they way you have, much more natural to my eye.

Sam


----------



## beeky (23 Apr 2008)

I like the wood and the position too, although I find the spindly bit going to the surface a bit distracting. I wouldn't worry about it being too big. Once all the plants are growing you might think it's too small!


----------



## planter (23 Apr 2008)

beeky said:
			
		

> I like the wood and the position too, although I find the spindly bit going to the surface a bit distracting. I wouldn't worry about it being too big. Once all the plants are growing you might think it's too small!



Have added some new plants which has softened the wood a little. Will try to post pic soon. As for the spindy bit it does help to add some height to the scape as the tank deep for its length (if that makes sense).


----------



## Aeropars (23 Apr 2008)

PLanter,

Did you plant the HC witht he rock wool still attached? Do you find that its less likely to float if there was fish in there?

Lee


----------



## planter (23 Apr 2008)

kipper said:
			
		

> I MUST SAY YOU ARE RIGHT IT DOES LOOK RUSHED I WOULD TRY A BIT HARDER NEXT TIME AND MOST OF ALL TAKE YOUR TIME GRASSHOPPER



Thankyou master (oh wise one) lol.


----------



## planter (23 Apr 2008)

Aeropars said:
			
		

> PLanter,
> 
> Did you plant the HC witht he rock wool still attached? Do you find that its less likely to float if there was fish in there?
> 
> Lee



I always plant HC like this. Most of the rock wool is removed. Just enough is left on to form an anchor I found this especially useful this time round with the Eco complete substrate.


----------



## planter (30 Apr 2008)

A little update for you - 

Hasnt been the best start I must confess but I think this is mainly due to a High KH reading. I suspect this is due to the Eco complete substrate which ive never used before. Not seeing much pearling action as a result and plants dont look like theyve got of to the best of starts. A little hair algae and BGA as a consiquence but regular water changes with RO water is bringing the KH down slowly. From what ive read This can be a problem with Eco complete at first but will settle after water changes! anyone expierienced anything similar?


----------



## ceg4048 (1 May 2008)

Hi planter,
                Normally, high KH has not been implicated as a causal factor in poor plant health although I'd have to imagine there is some upper limit at which growth would be affected. Unless it's absurdly high like something we'd see in Lake Malawi or someplace like that this shouldn't be a suspect. 

Eco complete is as good a substrate as you'll find. The plants in the photo below were rooted in eco complete and kH 6-7 water which hardly ever varied so there must be some other factor, although from what I've read in some other posts there has been some batch problems with eco complete causing water cloudiness and possibly KH issues. BGA is normally a consequence of low nitrates or low flow and hair algae can sometimes be attributed to low CO2 or low flow. Depending on other variables, low pearling is typically associated with low CO2 relative to the amount of light so in my opinion it may be worthwhile concentrating the troubleshooting efforts in these areas.




Cheers,


----------



## beeky (1 May 2008)

Is that L.ovalis?


----------



## ceg4048 (1 May 2008)

Yep, sure is, one of the pickiest of stems so ecocomplete and medium-high kH would have to be exonerated in this case. 

Cheers,


----------



## planter (1 May 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi planter,
> Normally, high KH has not been implicated as a causal factor in poor plant health although I'd have to imagine there is some upper limit at which growth would be affected. Unless it's absurdly high like something we'd see in Lake Malawi or someplace like that this shouldn't be a suspect.
> 
> Eco complete is as good a substrate as you'll find. The plants in the photo below were rooted in eco complete and kH 6-7 water which hardly ever varied so there must be some other factor, although from what I've read in some other posts there has been some batch problems with eco complete causing water cloudiness and possibly KH issues. BGA is normally a consequence of low nitrates or low flow and hair algae can sometimes be attributed to low CO2 or low flow. Depending on other variables, low pearling is typically associated with low CO2 relative to the amount of light so in my opinion it may be worthwhile concentrating the troubleshooting efforts in these areas.
> ...



Thanks for the advice Ceg, My Kh was abnormally high (14!!!) I will look into the flow etc. Have just Ordered a drop checker so will use this as a reference for Co2 levels. Ive always had succes with the Co2 tables and have always found plant respond well And pearling is evident when Kh and Ph are aligned to achieve desired Co2 levels. I must admit to being a little bit confused as ive read in your posts that neither are reliable methods (drop checker/tables). The tables worked for me and im tempted to do what has worked in the past. Advice always welcomed.


----------



## beeky (1 May 2008)

I think the general view is that the 4dKH drop checker method is a more reliable/accurate way to measure the CO2 than using tables. People have used the tables successfully but it has limitations. As long as you're aware of those limitations and don't treat the readings as gospel then it's OK IMO. Similarly with the drop checker really, as Clive has said in the past a nice green drop checker is not always a sure indication that there's adequate CO2 distribution throughout the whole aquarium.


----------



## ceg4048 (1 May 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice Ceg, My Kh was abnormally high (14!!!) I will look into the flow etc. Have just Ordered a drop checker so will use this as a reference for Co2 levels. Ive always had succes with the Co2 tables and have always found plant respond well And pearling is evident when Kh and Ph are aligned to achieve desired Co2 levels. I must admit to being a little bit confused as ive read in your posts that neither are reliable methods (drop checker/tables). The tables worked for me and im tempted to do what has worked in the past. Advice always welcomed.



Hi planter,
               KH 14 is pretty high and some time ago I lived on a farm with well water in a limestone geographical area. So the water was high in KH/GH. I had the opportunity to test this idea but I wanted to keep soft water fish so I never took advantage of the chance to use water as high as 14 KH. I don't have any data to prove it but I don't think that even this high of a KH can be attributed to poor health.

I know that it may sound a bit contradictory but the fact is that the drop checker and the tables, although crude, are the only cheap way we have of CO2 measurement, but that doesn't mean that they are accurate or even reliable, they are just better than having nothing at all. The tables work because of the small amount of carbonic acid that forms in the water when we add CO2. This carbonic acid drops the pH. The amount of carbonic acid that forms is directly related to the amount of dissolved CO2. The KH is a measure of the carbonates in the water and these carbonate ions react with any acids present which raises the ph. So the tables show a direct relationship between the amount of dissolved CO2->The amount of acid released into the water by is dissolution->and the amount of acid removed from the water by the carbonates present. 

The table therefore is fairly logical because it links the three. The problem though is that if you then add an acid into the water that is not Carbonic acid, say nitric acid then you have more acid in the water than can be accounted for by CO2 alone. This corrupts the calculation from the table. In the tank there are all sorts of other acids being produced which do exactly that. So if you just use tank water readings for the table you will almost always read a higher CO2 content than is real because of the extra non-Carbonic acids. Depending on the tank and the way that it is maintained you may have a very high false reading to a moderately high false reading. Depending on the lighting, flow and other factors, like type of plant the false high reading may not matter because those plants in that particular tank under those particular condition may do OK with what is actually a lower CO2 content. In the dropchecker we isolate the water sample from the acids in the tank and we have a known kH so we stabilize some of the variables that cause corruption of the pH reading in the sample. The only change in ph of the dropchecker is that due to the CO2 that fizzes out from the tank water, across the little air gap in the checker and into our distilled water sample.

As beeky says, the next tank will have a completely different configuration in which the plants may not tolerate the the lower than measured CO2 content because the amount of CO2 being delivered across their membranes may effectively be much less as a result of the new configuration. So really you were fortunate before but perhaps less so with this setup. This is the problem with our hobby, there are so many variables and so many optical illusions.  

Perhaps you could try a test of upping the CO2 for three weeks or so and see if it makes a difference, then lowering it to pre-test levels and see if the plants suffer. Even lowering the light accomplishes effectively the same thing. There are lots of combinations. It may turn out that high KH is a contributing factor but in my experience the CO2 and nutrient content are much more influential variables.

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (2 May 2008)

I found EC raised the KH and GH of the tank the first few months but it stops after a bit.

You wouldn't want to use EC and a CO2 PH probe!!   

Sam


----------



## planter (6 May 2008)

got my drop checker and this seems to suggest Co2 levels are ok. Ive added a Tunze nano stream for extra circulation was a little bit worried about all the RO ive been adding so tested No3 ... 20 ppm (Am dosing TPN+)  Will syphon off excess algae and see how it goes .... Too embarassed to post pic


----------



## ceg4048 (6 May 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> got my drop checker and this seems to suggest Co2 levels are ok. Ive added a Tunze nano stream for extra circulation was a little bit worried about all the RO ive been adding so tested No3 ... 20 ppm (Am dosing TPN+)  Will syphon off excess algae and see how it goes .... Too embarassed to post pic



Planter,
           I guess I must be the only hobbyist in the entire Milky Way Galaxy who doesn't think his CO2 is OK.  The thing is that BBA is a CO2 issue beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm exaggerating a little bit but I reckon that it can't be due to high KH otherwise Lakes Malawi and Tanganyika might be completely choked with BBA. If you ask for a show of hands for anyone who has had BBA in low KH water you'll see too many hands to count, so it can't be a KH issue because it occurs with equal regularity at any KH. You've got 3wpg on this tank which is serious business and is unforgiving. 

BBA can only be induced singly or via combination of the following factors:
1) Unstable CO2 - perhaps turning on CO2 an hour or two before lights ON.
2) Low CO2 - inject at a higher rate.
3) Poor flow - A deep cube has difficulty getting nutrients/CO2 to the bottom. Consider using a spray bar mounted on the back just to experiment.
4) High lighting. Starting up a tank with max lighting can be difficult due to low plant biomass and low sediment bacteria. The sediment bacteria are supported by the plants and by any organic matter in the sediment. More CO2 means more oxygenation of the sediment and a better ability for the sediment to convert NH4 to NO3. Consider shutting down of 25%-50% of your lighting to lower the CO2 demand.

The Tunze might solve the problem of flow but any of the other areas listed above are something to consider and will produce better mileage than chasing KH in my opinion. If there are no fish in the tank then you can really go to town and open up the needle valve.  

Cheers,


----------



## planter (6 May 2008)

Im hearing you Ceg,

The drop checker was installed as the best available reference. Based on your advice im up to 4-5 BPS (more than I can count anyway). I think the Tunze will offer better Co2 distribution ... I can only pressume the lilly pipe set im using is slowing the oputput of the filter somewhat, Wasnt until I swithched the Tunze on That I realised just how still the water was.  Co2 is currently on 1 hour before lights on Im going to adjust this to 2 hours before. 

Thanks for your help


----------



## John Starkey (6 May 2008)

Hi Planter, i have nine bags of eco-complete in my setup and my kh and gh were high for the first two months then it settled down to its more normal level , regards john.


----------



## planter (10 May 2008)

Interstingly ive just set up another tank. I used Red Sea Flora base substrate and filled the tank with 75% RO 25% tap as I always do.  Kh 4, ph 6.5, drop checker (4dkh solution) lime green, plants pearling nicely, Everything happening exactly as I would expect. Using these readings on a Co2 table I have a Co2 level of almost 38ppm ! High I know but no fish to worry about at the mo. This I pressume would explain the plants heavy pearling.  

Complete contrast to whats been happening in 'The Cube'.
Kh 9, Ph 7.5 drop checker light green, No pearling. Co2 tables indicates Co2 level 8.5ppm.  
The Co2 is going into this tank at 4 - 5 BPS.

both tanks are of a similar size and have the same amount of light over them.

I am simply making my own observations here but my conclusion is that the High Kh value (buffer capacity) of 'the Cube' means im having to use lots of gas to try and reduce pH which is proving difficult.  Is it possible that the more acidic I make my aquarium water the more carbonates are being released from the substrate ???  

Disregarding tables and drop checkers completeley .... tank with low kh is pearling niceley tank with high kh is not (it also has some serious algae issues). I agree that there is obviousy a lack of Co2 but that is not because it is not being pumped in fast enough. 

I often read in peoples journals that their Co2 level is  20-30ppm , how are people establishing these facts if they are not using tables or calculators?.


----------



## aaronnorth (10 May 2008)

Can you post a pic, there must have been quite a lot of growth


----------



## planter (10 May 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Can you post a pic, there must have been quite a lot of growth



yeah there has been a lot of growth ! Algae growth   



 


Heres a sneaky peek at the new tank -


----------



## LondonDragon (10 May 2008)

Its looking great planter, I am sure you can overcome the algea 
The new hardscape looks brilliant, can't wait to see it fully grow 

Keep us posted


----------



## ceg4048 (10 May 2008)

Hi Planter,
                I've studied your analysis and something doesn't compute. If I had to guess I would say that you are still using the pH reading of the tank water into the equation when calculating CO2. For example you advise that the dropchecker in the cube is green yet that the pH is 7.5, which is inconsistent. If the pH of the dropchecker's water were 7.5 it would be aqua blue, not green. A green dropchecker would yield a pH value of it's sample water at or below 7.0, so something sounds fishy.

Another thing to note is that the drop checker is currently mounted at the top right hand extremity of the tank where there are no plants, and where CO2 is at it's highest since it rises to escape the tank. A good troubleshooting procedure would be to mount the checker down at the lower left just behind those frizzy plants behind the wood, or even at the lower left front corner. See how long it takes to get the lime green color. Another thing you might try is to mount your diffuser in different location, like behind the frizzy plants for example. If your bubble rate is high and you still have problems then this points to a flow/distribution issue. The cube is tall relative to it's other dimensions so it's very difficult to get CO2 to penetrate to the lower reaches of the tank. Try moving the outflow pipe around.

KH has no bearing whatsoever in the waters ability to dissolve CO2. With high alkalinity, the only thing that happens as you've noted is that the pH will not fall as much as in a low KH tank but this does not affect CO2. The only way to affect the quantity of CO2 in the water is to add or subtract CO2, _regardless_ of the water's KH. However, if the CO2 is poorly distributed then the effect is the same as if less CO2 were being added to the tank. The issue of KH and it's effect on the plants and algae is a very seductive optical illusion and this apparent correlation does not imply causality.  There are plenty of KH 9 tanks that are not suffering this problem. If your nutrients are correct, lighting not excessive, and if your injection rate adequate then the only thing left is distribution. 

When most people say they have 20-30ppm CO2 it is because a green dropchecker  means the water sample in the checker is at or around 6.6 pH and the KH of the dropchecker water is 4 KH. If you were to plug these numbers into the table you would see that the result is more or less 30ppm. Therefore 30ppm CO2 in the dropchecker water sample must necessarily mean that the tank water also has 30ppm as there is equilibrium of carbonic acid between the two waters. Green dropcheckers therefore become synonymous with 20-30ppm CO2 assuming 4 dKH water is used.

If you were to add sodium bicarbonate to the good tank you would see a rise in alkalinity but you would see no change in the dropchecker color. You would not suddenly see an algae attack either, just a KH rise, that's all.

Another note about KH and plants: In low tech tanks, where CO2 is not being injected high KH is a good thing. This is because KH is a direct measurement of the water's content of _carbo_nate (CO3) and bi_carbon_ate (HCO3) ions. In the absence of CO2 injection many plants are able to strip these two ions of their carbon (C) and to use it in lieu of CO2 gas,  thus actually _lowering_ the KH and thus pH of the water. So there is no way high KH can be implicated in poor plant health.

Having said all that there are a handful of plants which tolerate high KH/GH but which do much better in low KH/GH water. Tonina comes to mind, but you have none of these known low KH/GH plants.

Hope this makes sense.  

Cheers,


Edit: Ooh, by the way, that second tank is totally awesome.


----------



## planter (11 May 2008)

Prior to setting up my 3 tanks again (and having scaped numerous reasonbly successful tanks) I really thought I had the plant growth sussed and was determined to concentrate more on the hard scaping.  Seems 'the cube' has given me a bit of a wake up call and Im learning not to disregard the basics of running a planted tank. 

Guess this is what makes the hobby sooo enjoyable ' the highs and the lows '

Appreciate everyones help at UKAPS!


----------



## JamesM (14 May 2008)

The Cube is coming along nice... but you new tank preview looks very interesting, can't wait to see more


----------



## planter (25 May 2008)

Just back from 2 day trip to Germany but having Introduced some SAE and Amano Shrimps before I left The Algae has pretty much disappeared now! The new scape is growing well and I seem to be able to maintain Co2 level much easier in this tank with a lower KH.  Im not pleased  with the scaping of the cube and will be making adjustments as soon as I get hold of some hardscape materials.


----------



## planter (1 Jun 2008)

Been giving the Cube a little more attention recently and it seems to be paying off. Stil not happy with the general scape (despite moving the wood) but the plants seem to be doing a little better. The rotalas have had a good trim and with regular dosing TPN+ the algae is almost history. Still no real evidence of pearling (4/5 BPS!) but have just carried out a BIG water change in an effort to win my on going battle with high KH. I know its said that KH isnt an issue but Im going through gas at an alarming rate to try and keep the Ph down.

Oh I also removed the lilly pipe set (now broken) as It kept blocking so im back to my ol eheim bits. This has meant increased flow from the external so ive removed the Tunze 'nano' stream (it was a tad feirce)
One more little change Ive added purigen to the cannister filter which seems to have sorted out the bog wood tanin.


heres a recent pic (the tanks not cloudy i was messing with the camera settings) -


----------



## aaronnorth (1 Jun 2008)

HC & P.Helferi are doing great, not sure about the vallis there though


----------



## planter (1 Jun 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> HC & P.Helferi are doing great, not sure about the vallis there though



The hemianthus is in recovery mode at the mo but seems to be doing ok.
The Vallis like plant (cyperus helferi) is there to hide the unsighlty knot at the end of that peice of wood. I hope to replace it with a group of stems soon, poss pogostemon stellata.


----------



## aaronnorth (1 Jun 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thought it might be, redmoor usually have a knot


----------



## planter (9 Jun 2008)

A little update ... 

The changes seem to have paid off. Things are looking much healthier now, cant believe The HC recovered from the algae issue the way it has.



 

Algae is now non existent. These pics were taken after a week away from home (no algae wiping required  )








before I went away I changed 50% but when I changed my diffuser for a clean one from a bleach dip the bleach leached into the tank in a mist and I thought Id probobly done some real damage, I took it out quick and changed 25 % AGAIN! (pure RO) straight after a 50% change. Seems it worked wonders! The water change has bought the KH down and hey presto the plants are finally pearling.


----------



## George Farmer (10 Jun 2008)

Looks really good.  Well done.


----------



## LondonDragon (10 Jun 2008)

Looks awsome  congrats


----------



## Arana (10 Jun 2008)

Very Nice..Well done


----------



## aaronnorth (10 Jun 2008)

you are producing some really good scapes latley, well done


----------



## planter (10 Jun 2008)

Thanks for all the positive comments. Using the forum is a huge help and inspiration.


----------



## John Starkey (10 Jun 2008)

Hi Planter,this is one really nice nano setup the hc looks really healthy well done ,regards john.


----------



## planter (12 Jun 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Planter,this is one really nice nano setup the hc looks really healthy well done ,regards john.



Thanks John,

Its been hard work from the start this one but its starting to come good now. Got to be honest im Not sure If I would use Eco complete again due to the KH issues. I know long term it has proven itself time and time again but Ive had better results early on in tanks using other substrates. 

My LFS is getting a large delivery of Mini Landscape rocks and dragon stone   next week so I may look at changing the hard scape. I also want to tie up some moss to the wood, I think this will ad a nice contrasting dark green as well as breaking up the wood a little. I would like to try Fissidens, does any one have any expierience tying it?


----------



## johnny70 (12 Jun 2008)

Stunning tank, I love it  

Fissendens is nice and easy to tie to wood, I had a tiny portion from Malaysia at he beginning of the year about a postage stamp size, tied it with a couple of pieces of cotton, now covers the entire piece 8) 

JOHNNY


----------



## planter (12 Jun 2008)

johnny70 said:
			
		

> Stunning tank, I love it
> 
> Fissendens is nice and easy to tie to wood, I had a tiny portion from Malaysia at he beginning of the year about a postage stamp size, tied it with a couple of pieces of cotton, now covers the entire piece 8)
> 
> JOHNNY



Cheers Johnny,

whenever ive tied moss or riccia ive been quite brutal and not worried about crushing the plant, I thought the Fissidens looked a little fragile. Can I tie it in the usual fashion?


----------



## johnny70 (12 Jun 2008)

Looks that way doesn't it   I was pretty brutal with it but it has taken off very well, painfully slow grower for me though and yes, just tie as you would any moss

JOHNNY


----------



## LondonDragon (12 Jun 2008)

johnny70 said:
			
		

> Looks that way doesn't it   I was pretty brutal with it but it has taken off very well, painfully slow grower for me though and yes, just tie as you would any moss
> JOHNNY


I have kept riccia before and when I last had it, dwarf riccia it grew pretty fast, but I got rid of it from previous scape, recently obtained some more dwarf riccia, this time is grows very very very slow in comparrison, are there different types?


----------



## John Starkey (12 Jun 2008)

Hi Planter, i have just tied some fissedens moss last sunday with green fishing line and it is doing really well all ready, on another note TGM have some rare mosses coming in on the 18th of june if you are after something different,regards john.


----------



## planter (12 Jun 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Planter, i have just tied some fissedens moss last sunday with green fishing line and it is doing really well all ready, on another note TGM have some rare mosses coming in on the 18th of june if you are after something different,regards john.



thats encouraging, Ill have to get some on order with my LFS. I had a look at the TGM moss post. Im very lucky My LFS has these rare :?  mosses delivered almost every other week!!   

Cheers guys


----------



## John Starkey (12 Jun 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> john starkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Planter,out of interest who is your local lfs,regards john.


----------



## planter (12 Jun 2008)

Maidenhead aquatics @ Morden (Surrey)   

everything shown in this journal is from them.


----------



## John Starkey (12 Jun 2008)

Hi Planter,thats interesting my local blooms garden centre aquatics has just been taken over by maidenhead aquatics i must pop in and see if they can get some mosses in cheers,regards john.


----------



## planter (12 Jun 2008)

Ok nice one! if they have trouble sourcing them tell them to call the Morden branch!!


----------



## John Starkey (12 Jun 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> Ok nice one! if they have trouble sourcing them tell them to call the Morden branch!!



Hi Planter,good point will do ,regards john.


----------



## planter (19 Jun 2008)

All is going well and as Ive made a few changes I though I would post an update.
Added acouple of new stem plants P. Stellata and L. aromatica Which seem to be settling in well. Have also tied up some fissidens which is obviousy happy as it is pearling niceley. Have messed with the hardscape too by adding a few mini landscape rocks which I sourced from my LFS.


----------



## LondonDragon (19 Jun 2008)

Looks great planter, how about a close up of the rock work, nice photography


----------



## planter (19 Jun 2008)

Thanks LondonDragon, glad you like the pics. By the way I did pop into the chat room the other day but you must have been busy, another time perhaps!  -


----------



## LondonDragon (19 Jun 2008)

The rocks look great, which type are they? I left the chat on but can't be there all the time, work and all. I do try to work sometimes LOL 
Tank is looking better and better congrats


----------



## planter (19 Jun 2008)

The rocks are the ever popular 'mini landscape'. As much as I like them cant help feeling my tank now looks like every one elses LOL    Thanks for taking the time to comment.


----------



## LondonDragon (19 Jun 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> The rocks are the ever popular 'mini landscape'. As much as I like them cant help feeling my tank now looks like every one elses LOL    Thanks for taking the time to comment.


No worries mate, by the way Matt and I are in the chat pop in now


----------



## planter (20 Jun 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> planter said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its good to talk! Enjoyed chatting with Matt, Londondragon and George last night.


----------



## swackett (20 Jun 2008)

The cube looks great Planter, I love the composition of the plants and the hardscape - Well done   

Where did you get the rock?


----------



## planter (20 Jun 2008)

swackett said:
			
		

> The cube looks great Planter, I love the composition of the plants and the hardscape - Well done
> 
> Where did you get the rock?



Thanks  

Maidenhead aquatics @ Morden ! just had a delivery of mini landscape, dragon stone and redmoor roots!


----------



## swackett (20 Jun 2008)

Cool,  I must say I think MA at Morden is a great place, they always have good stock of plants and equipment.

I'll make sure a go along and have a look

cheers Planter.


----------



## LondonDragon (20 Jun 2008)

swackett said:
			
		

> Cool,  I must say I think MA at Morden is a great place, they always have good stock of plants and equipment.
> I'll make sure a go along and have a look
> cheers Planter.


Thats where I am going this weekend too


----------



## planter (20 Jun 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> swackett said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which day you going ?


----------



## LondonDragon (20 Jun 2008)

planter said:
			
		

> Which day you going ?


Not sure yet, might go there Sunday morning.


----------



## swackett (20 Jun 2008)

Hi Planter,

I can't make this weekend, I'll be there next Sunday (hope there is some rock, wood and plants left after LondonDragon's been there!)

Excuse the ignorance, but plants have you got that tank?

Cheers


----------



## aaronnorth (20 Jun 2008)

tank looks great, not sure whether the fissidens? will disrupt the view on the wood?


----------



## planter (20 Jun 2008)

swackett said:
			
		

> Hi Planter,
> 
> I can't make this weekend, I'll be there next Sunday (hope there is some rock, wood and plants left after LondonDragon's been there!)
> 
> ...


----------



## swackett (21 Jun 2008)

Great thanks for the picture Planter - It's nice to see how plants look in an aqurium as they tend to look a lot different to when they are in a pot.

Cheers


----------



## planter (28 Jun 2008)

liked this pic so I thought I'd share it - I know its not great photgraphy but thought it was an intersting veiw


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Jun 2008)

certainley different, but i like it


----------



## Fred Dulley (29 Jun 2008)

Nice picture, Chris!


----------



## LondonDragon (29 Jun 2008)

Top view is excelent  sometimes I turn all the filters and pump off just to look from the top, sure if a different way to view your tank


----------



## Dan Crawford (29 Jun 2008)

cracking shot pal!


----------



## GreenNeedle (6 Jul 2008)

You sure do have a talent planter.  both with scaping and with photography.

Seems to me you have those magic hands a la Farmer George where everything you touch is turning to gold.  I am so jealous. lol

Do you use photoshop at all to change the colouring in the photos?  If not wow you have a good camera and good lighting.

Keep it up.  you're doing us all proud.  Like the fissidens by the way.  I may experiment with it again sometime.  last time I had a few CO2 problems and it was the first to get algaefied.

Andy


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Jul 2008)

yep i'll second that   awsome mate.

hey supercoley, looks like you and me   playing catchup mate   
ive got to try and get 2 months knowledge on you too     i just dont know he chemistry side like you.

have you been to MA @ eastbridgfore recently? pretty good.


----------



## planter (7 Jul 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> You sure do have a talent planter.  both with scaping and with photography.
> 
> Seems to me you have those magic hands a la Farmer George where everything you touch is turning to gold.  I am so jealous. lol
> 
> ...



Cheers pal   

I dont use photo shop, The pics you see are straight out of the camera just a bit of cropping from time to time.
I only have a compact camera (sony cybershot) but if I take loads of pics sooner or later I get a decent one.

The fissidens has done really well for me but I must admit im suffering a little algae at the moment, so you see its not all plain sailing!


----------



## GreenNeedle (8 Jul 2008)

Maybe you can pm me some advice on photos with a compact then.  I have a Casio Exilim 10mp and I can't get any decent macro shots.  Also quite hard to get a good focus most of the time.

Andy


----------



## planter (8 Jul 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Maybe you can pm me some advice on photos with a compact then.  I have a Casio Exilim 10mp and I can't get any decent macro shots.  Also quite hard to get a good focus most of the time.
> 
> Andy



Your probobly best of asking Saintly or George for photography tips, they seem to know what there doing with a camera.
I use auto settings and let the camera do the work! No flash, shoot side on to minimise reflection. The sony cybershot has a macro setting which is OK ish  but the camera has to go up against the glass of the tank as zooming in will loose you focus.


----------



## Matt Holbrook-Bull (8 Jul 2008)

even with a macro setting, a compact or bridge camera often doesnt cope very well. The lens diameters just arent big enough to channel enough light onto the CCD chip which leads to focusing and exposure issues.

Also, auto focus systems rely on infrared to judge the distance, so if your pointing (often at an angle) at the glass, the beam will reflect off into a different direction, meaning the camera has no return beam to go on. In this case, youll have to manually focus (if you have that option), or pre-focus by half-holding down the shutter release (if you have that option) and pointing at something at the same distance.


----------



## planter (13 Jul 2008)

Well the last couple of weeks has really been a confidence boost ... 
Last week 'the cube' was photographed by Iggy Tavares for 'tropical fish' magazine.
Iggy plans to submit  a 2 page article on the tank    and hes hoping to get it in time for the next isssue (August I guess).

The week prior was carefully planed to prep the tank perfectly so it looked it best on the friday Iggy would visit.
Stems were trimmed, water changes carried out and  glass cleaned to perfection. 10 mins before Iggy's arrival I removed the filter inlet/outlet and Co2 reactor. I had this horrible feeling that I would find all the Riccia floating on the surface the morning of the shoot but it all went really well. 

So then I gets approached again for some pics by someone a bit closer to home.
This time I have to come up with some pics of my own. Fortunatley I managed to borrow a SLR and a tripod    For which I have to thank kipper! (cheers Mate). So more tank prepping and another Friday off spent taking pics (love it!)

Never used an SLR before but gave it a good go. Spent a good while photographing my other tank 'Lusty glaze' and ended up with a few half decent shots (well i think so anyway).  
Chances are youll all get to see these shots but its not my project so you will have to watch this space!

Sooo I now find myself in a position of having some great pics, thing is im seriously thinking of entering at least one of the scapes into the AGA aquascaping contest. So for now im sitting on the images.

And amongst it all Ive ordered another tank!!   60 x 30 x 30 (6mm) optiwhite, rimless & bracless

Bring it on


----------



## swackett (13 Jul 2008)

Well done, I'l have to watch out for the next issue   

Did you find the SLR could do a much broader range of photos than your compact camera?


----------



## aaronnorth (13 Jul 2008)

Thats good news planter, well done


----------



## planter (21 Nov 2008)

Final shots as seen in AGA 2008


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Nov 2008)

i'll just post wicked once planter, and you'll know its for every tank!   ....again mate....wicked! you always produce something slightly left of middle


----------



## altaaffe (22 Nov 2008)

Another fantastic looking scape ... I'm simply gobsmacked!!


----------



## aaronnorth (22 Nov 2008)

lovely tank, and one of my favourites that you have produced.


----------



## planter (22 Nov 2008)

Thanks for your comments guys. Seems I need to practice my pruning techniques with those stems.


----------



## Graeme Edwards (22 Nov 2008)

Sweet photos..looks very blue, did you shoot in tungston?

Nice clean scape Planter.......


----------



## planter (22 Nov 2008)

Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Sweet photos..looks very blue, did you shoot in tungston?
> 
> Nice clean scape Planter.......



Cheers Graeme, 

I borrowed a freinds SLR for these pics and TBH didnt have a clue what I was doing. I messed with the camera settings and took loads of pics to come up with these. With a bit of cropping and a tweak of the contrast in MO picture manager  
I got a half decent result.


----------



## Graeme Edwards (22 Nov 2008)

Yeah they are nice shots, but they really must of been shot in tungston. Ive done the same once as you can see below....





It can be quite effective for a moody cold look, but suspect thats not what you wher after?

Heres the same cube shot at the same night, and shot in AWB.


----------

