# New planted tank and plants are melting



## Ks198

Dear all,

I am new to this hobbit. I have set up the tank with plants two weeks ago and trying to do a slence cycle. I have changed water 3 times so far and I put the full doz of fertilizers each time. I put the light time to 5 hr each day. But since 2 days ago, the plants are melting. I put a few pictures here and can you plz kindly let me know what's wrong? Thank you so much!!


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## Zeus.

Not an expert, but some plants do melt when their environment changes and some do it when they are aggressive trimmed eg micro swords. It is normal to see some melting when plants are first put in a fresh tank. Don't panic and let your plants adjust to your tank. It may take some time. 
Of course some may not adjust and you may find it difficult to grow certain ones.

Sent from Mountolympus via neural interface


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## abutterell

Liquid carbon can also make certain types of plants melt 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## mike L

Your substrate looks very similar to my own, before I ended up 'mulching' it all with aquasoil. It looks great but is an inert substrate I'm guessing? With no nutrients in it?
Anyway, I tend to let my plants sit in their purchased pots and bunches for about a week, in order to reduce the shock of root disturbance, and differing lighting and water column properties. If you don't have fish in your tank yet, make sure stay on top of your phosphorous and nitrogen dosing in the interim. I found that potted plants in rock-wool benefited greatly from a settling in period, and that water flow could still penetrate to feed roots etc... before I eventually planted them. This is just my own experience mind, and root-tabs are also worth consideration. Don't be disheartened though, because many new plants undergo melt and die-back even in what on paper...should be 'paradise' conditions within a new tank. Plants usually sort themselves out after a few weeks. You might also consider tackling easy to grow plants like anubia and bacopa etc...because settling ANY plant into a new tank gives you a lift when you first set up, even if there are others that are letting you down_ initially._

Here's my 100 litre in it's first week some time back. There were some established additions but also lot's of *new purchases* having a honeymoon period in their pots.



 

Regards


Mike


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## Ks198

Thank you so much for your reply. Everyone. Very informative. My first post! 

Mike, your plants looks nice. I will try this next time when I buy plants, I was thinking if I should keep them in the pots for a bit. But I am very new to this hobbit. 


 I haven't got fish yet, so still have time to correct things . Today I tested my water, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are 0/0.25ppm/0. And I founds lots of hairy things on some plants. Did another 50% water change immediately. Anybody know what this is?


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Ks198 said:


> . And I founds lots of hairy things on some plants. Did another 50% water change immediately. Anybody know what this is?


The hairy things are roots, you can see they are growing from the stem nodes. 

A lot of aquarium plants (like _Hydrocotyle_) are really plants that grow emersed in swamps etc, but have the ability to survive under-water. Given the chance they will root from the nodes and then the leaves will grow up towards the surface, where light and CO2 are at higher levels.





Ks198 said:


> Today I tested my water, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are 0/0.25ppm/0


This really shows the problems with test kits, you are unlikely to have NO2- present without any NO3-. 

A lot of parameters we are interested in are quite difficult to test for, and this is true of nitrate (NO3). Have a look at <"High Nitrate">.

Most of what you read on forums about "cycling" and the nitrogen cycle is wrong, it is like a multi-headed hydra and it just won't go away. Have a look at <"Will filter bacteria survive...">.

cheers Darrel


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## Ks198

Hi Darrel, thanks a lot for reply. I cropped the photo to be more specific, you mean these things are roots?

My substrate is tetra complete substrate and capped with black sand. I dosed the plant fertilizer from aquarium garden each time I change water. 

Thx a lot!


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Ks198 said:


> you mean these things are roots?


No, that is the start of biofilm developing on the plants stem. 

Plants that are obligate aquatic plants have smooth stems, often with a slimy epidermis to deter biofilm development.

Just suction it out, biofilm is quite natural. 

@Zeus is right, when you add plants to a new tank it takes a while for them to transition from the emersed form they were grown in to submersed, during that time period they will leak ("melt") and this will encourage the growth of all sorts of organisms. 

cheers Darrel


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## Ks198

Thank a lot! Darrel. What a relief!


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## Ks198

Hey guys,

Just when I thought the plants are doing well, some of them has grown new leaves, but slowly seems some black things starts taking over on leaves. Can you plz help? What are there? Thx a lot!


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## GHNelson

New tank syndrome.....Diatoms!
Diatoms, Brown Algae


 


*Description* Forms in brown patches on the glass, substrate and plants.
*Cause* Usually found in newly setup tanks due to silicates and ammonia as the filter and substrate have yet to mature.
*Removal* Can be vacuumed out or wiped of the glass with a soft cloth. Usually disappears after a few weeks when the tank has matured. Otocinclus will eat it.

Hair, Thread, Fuzz, etc


 


*Description* These are very general names for a wide variety of filamentous algae. Generally green and varying in length. I have listed some of the more popular filamentous algae under their own section on this page.
*Cause* A range of causes including low CO2, low nutrient levels and ammonia spikes. Nothing to do with excess iron as commonly thought.
*Removal* Can be very difficult to eradicate at times. A high plant mass with good CO2 and a good supply of nutrients along with constantly hassling the algae seems to pay off after a while. Removal by twisting around a toothbrush or similar. Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon can help. Amano shrimps, Rosy barbs and mollies will often eat


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## Ks198

hogan53 said:


> New tank syndrome.....Diatoms!
> Diatoms, Brown Algae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Description* Forms in brown patches on the glass, substrate and plants.
> *Cause* Usually found in newly setup tanks due to silicates and ammonia as the filter and substrate have yet to mature.
> *Removal* Can be vacuumed out or wiped of the glass with a soft cloth. Usually disappears after a few weeks when the tank has matured. Otocinclus will eat it.
> 
> Hair, Thread, Fuzz, etc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Description* These are very general names for a wide variety of filamentous algae. Generally green and varying in length. I have listed some of the more popular filamentous algae under their own section on this page.
> *Cause* A range of causes including low CO2, low nutrient levels and ammonia spikes. Nothing to do with excess iron as commonly thought.
> *Removal* Can be very difficult to eradicate at times. A high plant mass with good CO2 and a good supply of nutrients along with constantly hassling the algae seems to pay off after a while. Removal by twisting around a toothbrush or similar. Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon can help. Amano shrimps, Rosy barbs and mollies will often eat



Thx a lot! Very informative! Other than water change, scrub it off, reducing the light to 6 hrs instead of 8 hrs, can I put some shrimp or oto in? The tank has been set up for 3 1/2 weeks now, I was thinking to add 4 danios next week coz they are more hardy or I shall wait and fix this algae problem first? 

Thx 

Kai


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## Dominik_K

Hi Kai,

that depends on what your planning to do. But to start with: I am not an expert by any meanings. I read a lot and get really much information out of that. Diatoms and hair algae were problems in my current tank, i defeated both (ok, guess diatoms defeat themself  ).

Please do not start to fight one thing after another. If you fight the hair algae issue and do nothing else, you will get into the spot I found myself in. Namely: Green Spot Algae. Instead I will try to give you a short overfew, but I guess you have to use the searchengine of your choice to find further information.

Since your algae (talking the hair algae) is most likely related to pure nutrient availability, I would stay back from adding fish until you fixed it. I would recommend chosing a appropriate dosing routine. My suggestions are most of the time (don't know your tank, hence a bit cautious) the following:

High-Tech-Tanks (0,6 Watts per Liter / 40 Lumens per Liter and more + good CO2)
Look at the *EI Dosing Method*. It is simple and works most of the time.

Lower-Tech-Tanks (anything below the values above)
*PPS Pro* is a good approach. I have never tested it for myself but I never heard anything bad except some minor GSA (Green Spot Algae) issues, which can be handled with a bit more PO4 Dosing. Another posibility would be the* Lean EI Dosing*. Both systems are pretty simple and work for a lot of people.

My current tank is running well, using the EI Dosing Method in a bit reduced way. Kind of a mixture of EI and Lean EI Dosing. I would suggest reading this post by Tom Barr, who came up with those routines. There he explains how the EI system may be adapted to tanks for less water changes (aka Lean EI Dosing). I think it is more than just that. It makes the system easier for beginners, because classic EI is something like driving a sports car (stolen from scapefu podcast, but simply true): It's much fun as long as everything works out great. But a brief moment of distraction and there are major problems. 

To wrap things up, I have three questions for you:
1. Are you running a CO2 system?
2. What fertilizers are you using and how much do you add?
3. What kind of substrate do you use? Basic gravel, Sand, ADA Soil or even anything else?


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## Ks198

Dominik_K said:


> Hi Kai,
> 
> that depends on what your planning to do. But to start with: I am not an expert by any meanings. I read a lot and get really much information out of that. Diatoms and hair algae were problems in my current tank, i defeated both (ok, guess diatoms defeat themself  ).
> 
> Please do not start to fight one thing after another. If you fight the hair algae issue and do nothing else, you will get into the spot I found myself in. Namely: Green Spot Algae. Instead I will try to give you a short overfew, but I guess you have to use the searchengine of your choice to find further information.
> 
> Since your algae (talking the hair algae) is most likely related to pure nutrient availability, I would stay back from adding fish until you fixed it. I would recommend chosing a appropriate dosing routine. My suggestions are most of the time (don't know your tank, hence a bit cautious) the following:
> 
> High-Tech-Tanks (0,6 Watts per Liter / 40 Lumens per Liter and more + good CO2)
> Look at the *EI Dosing Method*. It is simple and works most of the time.
> 
> Lower-Tech-Tanks (anything below the values above)
> *PPS Pro* is a good approach. I have never tested it for myself but I never heard anything bad except some minor GSA (Green Spot Algae) issues, which can be handled with a bit more PO4 Dosing. Another posibility would be the* Lean EI Dosing*. Both systems are pretty simple and work for a lot of people.
> 
> My current tank is running well, using the EI Dosing Method in a bit reduced way. Kind of a mixture of EI and Lean EI Dosing. I would suggest reading this post by Tom Barr, who came up with those routines. There he explains how the EI system may be adapted to tanks for less water changes (aka Lean EI Dosing). I think it is more than just that. It makes the system easier for beginners, because classic EI is something like driving a sports car (stolen from scapefu podcast, but simply true): It's much fun as long as everything works out great. But a brief moment of distraction and there are major problems.
> 
> To wrap things up, I have three questions for you:
> 1. Are you running a CO2 system?
> 2. What fertilizers are you using and how much do you add?
> 3. What kind of substrate do you use? Basic gravel, Sand, ADA Soil or even anything else?



Wow. Thx a lot! 
I don't have co2
I bought all my plants from acquiam garden and something called tnc complete. According to them, they suggest me to overdose to battle this issue. I dose everyday. 
http://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/tnc-complete-250ml-228-p.asp
I have tetra complete and cap with black sand. And that's all I have. 

Last night I did 80% water change and sucked and scrubbed. Man, that was lots of work. 


 Thx a lot


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## Dominik_K

Hi,

you're welcome. I did not know this product so far, but it seems to be a all in one EI product. And the product seems to be solid for me, but never tested it. Thanks for showing this product, have to see if it's available in germany.

According to anything I know about your tank, there are two possibilities that might cause your melting:

1. If you have high light (more than 2 WGP / 0,6 Watt per Liter / 40 Lumens per Liter or what ever your measuring is), you might need a CO2 System. The reason is simple: A great amount of plant mass is formed by carbon. So everytime a plant produces a new leaf, it takes up carbon and other nutrients to build it. If one is missing, the plant is pulling it from existing leafs. That's melting. I remember myself being pretty shy bying a system for 180 € for a tank that was about as expensive as that, but it was worth the cost.
2. If you're not into high lighting, you can get away with no CO2 injection, but I can't guarantee this. In this case I would recommend to increase dosing bit by bit (about 10 percent a week), until your problems are gone. But do not break the point of more than 25 ppm NO3 the moment before you're going to change water. If you have to go that high without an improvement, it is basicly a CO2 issue. Same, if their is a algae problem developing.

I know those water changes  Hate them in my 54l currently and I was literaly afraid of them in my former 330l tank. An 80 percent change took hours. If you have the free money and need a bit of a speed up, a little pump can make a huge difference. Ordered one yesterday, since I will upgrade to 128l again in a few weeks


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## Ks198

Dominik_K said:


> Hi,
> 
> you're welcome. I did not know this product so far, but it seems to be a all in one EI product. And the product seems to be solid for me, but never tested it. Thanks for showing this product, have to see if it's available in germany.
> 
> According to anything I know about your tank, there are two possibilities that might cause your melting:
> 
> 1. If you have high light (more than 2 WGP / 0,6 Watt per Liter / 40 Lumens per Liter or what ever your measuring is), you might need a CO2 System. The reason is simple: A great amount of plant mass is formed by carbon. So everytime a plant produces a new leaf, it takes up carbon and other nutrients to build it. If one is missing, the plant is pulling it from existing leafs. That's melting. I remember myself being pretty shy bying a system for 180 € for a tank that was about as expensive as that, but it was worth the cost.
> 2. If you're not into high lighting, you can get away with no CO2 injection, but I can't guarantee this. In this case I would recommend to increase dosing bit by bit (about 10 percent a week), until your problems are gone. But do not break the point of more than 25 ppm NO3 the moment before you're going to change water. If you have to go that high without an improvement, it is basicly a CO2 issue. Same, if their is a algae problem developing.
> 
> I know those water changes  Hate them in my 54l currently and I was literaly afraid of them in my former 330l tank. An 80 percent change took hours. If you have the free money and need a bit of a speed up, a little pump can make a huge difference. Ordered one yesterday, since I will upgrade to 128l again in a few weeks





Dominik_K said:


> Hi,
> 
> you're welcome. I did not know this product so far, but it seems to be a all in one EI product. And the product seems to be solid for me, but never tested it. Thanks for showing this product, have to see if it's available in germany.
> 
> According to anything I know about your tank, there are two possibilities that might cause your melting:
> 
> 1. If you have high light (more than 2 WGP / 0,6 Watt per Liter / 40 Lumens per Liter or what ever your measuring is), you might need a CO2 System. The reason is simple: A great amount of plant mass is formed by carbon. So everytime a plant produces a new leaf, it takes up carbon and other nutrients to build it. If one is missing, the plant is pulling it from existing leafs. That's melting. I remember myself being pretty shy bying a system for 180 € for a tank that was about as expensive as that, but it was worth the cost.
> 2. If you're not into high lighting, you can get away with no CO2 injection, but I can't guarantee this. In this case I would recommend to increase dosing bit by bit (about 10 percent a week), until your problems are gone. But do not break the point of more than 25 ppm NO3 the moment before you're going to change water. If you have to go that high without an improvement, it is basicly a CO2 issue. Same, if their is a algae problem developing.
> 
> I know those water changes  Hate them in my 54l currently and I was literaly afraid of them in my former 330l tank. An 80 percent change took hours. If you have the free money and need a bit of a speed up, a little pump can make a huge difference. Ordered one yesterday, since I will upgrade to 128l again in a few weeks


 Thanks a lot! I don't know my light as I got it with my 2nd hand tank. Will check tonight. 

In terms of option 2, if I understood you correctly,  are your saying feeding more nutrition to the plants, so they can grow better to absorb food sources from brown algae; hence compress algae growth? Is algae going to benfit from the plant food? 


Many thanks,


Kai


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## Dominik_K

Hi,

again, that depends on the situation. The more plants, the more nutrients will be needed. To less nutrients for the plant mass lead to deficencies. To high amounts of nutrients (w/o CO2) lead to algae. It's pretty hard to figure out the right doses in a no CO2 tank in my opinion, but if one acts carefull, its possible. Just look out for algae in your tank and react as soon as they show up in even small portions.


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## Ks198

I checked the lights and it has two tubes and each is 45 w. I have 180L,So that means it is 45x 2/180 = 0.5 W/L. It also has a light reflector installed. I don't know how I can quantify that. Sounds like I am in the low light zoom. I have cut my light hours to 6 hr from 8 hr now and I increased my dose as well. Let's give it a few days and see how quickly it will come back. 

Thanks everyone for all your valuable advises. This is very helpful community. 

Kai


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## Ks198

Hey guy,

The brown algae seems is under control. It does come back but I just scrub it off when it started building up. However, I have a very strange reading from my water. It has absolutely no ammonia and nitrate, but some nitrite. This is really strange. Does anybody know why?

I did test with my tap water, it shows no nitrite


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## Dominik_K

Hi Kai,

that is a common phenomen within new tanks. The tank starts to cycle and bacteria for nitrification start to develop. Since your tests don't show minimalistic readings, you don't notice them, but there is a bit NH4 and NO3 for sure. This NO2 will go away soon and afterwards your tank is ready for fish and other animals  In germany, we call this a nitrate-peak. Don't know if thats a thing here too.


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## Ks198

Dominik_K said:


> Hi Kai,
> 
> that is a common phenomen within new tanks. The tank starts to cycle and bacteria for nitrification start to develop. Since your tests don't show minimalistic readings, you don't notice them, but there is a bit NH4 and NO3 for sure. This NO2 will go away soon and afterwards your tank is ready for fish and other animals  In germany, we call this a nitrate-peak. Don't know if thats a thing here too.


Thx a lot! I guess I am just a little inpatient now after 4 weeks. I will sit and wait until my little bacteria fiends eat up the NO2. Do u think I should do a water change now or better wait? Thx 

Kai


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## Dominik_K

Hi,

everyone is inpatiant at this point. I know this issues for several years but all the time I jump to google, typing "diatoms within the first weeks" 

Just stick to your normal routine. If there is no life stock, there is no problem with NO2.


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