# Bonsai Mountain Scape



## Kalum (18 Feb 2018)

After starting my first tank (Superfish Home 60) I found that I was limited more than I first realised I would be due to the all in one nature of the tank. Being a bit naive I thought I'd be able to achieve what I had pictured in my head but soon realised that without making fundamental changes to the tank I'd have to compromise or end up with a frankensetein tank

In the end,  I decided that I'd do it right and give myself all the tools to build what I want so that it's only down to my own application and learning that will need to progress to make it work. So this is where this journal starts out... 

Tank - Aqua One Opti White 60 x 40 x 40
Lighting - Twinstar 600s with TC421 controller
Filter/heater - Eheim Pro 4+ 350t (2373)
CO2 - CO2 Art dual stage regulator, CO2 art inline diffuser and 1.5kg bottle 
Glasswear - 17mm Cal Aqua Labs influx x3 lily pipe & efflux g3 outlet

Substrate - ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia (normal and powder) 
Ferts - UKAPF EI salts 
Hardscape - Ancient Rock (manten) & bonsai
Plants - Rotala sp Colorata, Limnophila Hippuridoides, Fissidens Fontanus (phoenix moss) , Riccardia Chamedryfolia (mini pellia), Hemianthus Callitrichoides (HC), Staurogyne Repens, Alternanthera Reineckii Mini, Hygrophila Siamensis 53b

Other - lava rock and egg crate to create a bit of substrate height. Hugo Kamishi natural sand and Marina grey creek 2-4mm gravel for a feature path around the rock. Chihiros 17mm clear tubing to replace standard black eheim tubing. 

Inhabitants - 1 half moon rose tail Betta, 6 Espei Rasbora, 8 Celestial Pearl Danio (possibly add more danios and 4 ottos at a later date). 

Still waiting on a few things to arrive but this is how it sits at the minute and will be set up over the coming weeks


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## Nigel95 (18 Feb 2018)

Nice equipment 

Did you modify the tc 421 because the twinstar 600 s puts out 5A which will burn the channel if you use it on 100%. One channel can only handle 4A.


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## Kalum (18 Feb 2018)

Thanks Nigel, still waiting on the TC421 to arrive so it's not set up yet. But as far as I know the 600s runs at 2.5A, it's the 900s thats too much for the 4A channel so needs modded


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## Patrick Crowley (18 Feb 2018)

Some nice gear there Kalum 

I look forward to this one.  Plus also keen to see how the Aqua One Trio turns out.


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## alto (18 Feb 2018)

You really know how to upgrade 

I'd keep the Superfish Home 60 as a quarantine/hospital tank


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## Nigel95 (18 Feb 2018)

Kalum said:


> But as far as I know the 600s runs at 2.5A



Should be right then. The only website I could found that advertised the amps said it was 5. Thats why.


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## Kalum (18 Feb 2018)

Patrick Crowley said:


> Some nice gear there Kalum
> 
> I look forward to this one.  Plus also keen to see how the Aqua One Trio turns out.



Thanks Patrick, will be a busy few weeks but should be interesting 



alto said:


> You really know how to upgrade
> 
> I'd keep the Superfish Home 60 as a quarantine/hospital tank



Haha at least this way I can only blame myself and not the setup, I've got a 32L trio shrimp only tank I could use as hospital tank so will just have the 2 running, a 3rd is just a bit much for keeping up at the minute... 



Nigel95 said:


> Should be right then. The only website I could found that advertised the amps said it was 5. Thats why.



Appreciate the input anyway Nigel, always good to double check. On green aqua website it states 2.5A for the 600s and 5A for the 900s,not checked the actual light if I'm honest but will make sure when setting up


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## Kalum (19 Feb 2018)

As I'll be using a lot of stone in this, inert stone was the way to go in my mind

After searching about, with nowhere close by to pick out what I want and not keen on playing a lottery of ordering a lot of expensive stone I might not like when it shows up, I've spoken to Aquaman Nature Studio over in Poland and they are putting together a project scape for me. Sent them a sketch of what I want along with photos as reference so will see what they come up with. Should be done by midweek


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## Kalum (21 Feb 2018)

Cal Aqua Labs goodies arrived


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## steveno (22 Feb 2018)

Hello Kalum

Lovely bit of kit, will be looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.

Thou having all the kit is only part of it  (as i'm finding out with my own scape ), but looking at you're other scapes you certainly seem know what your doing.

Hope you manage to get the hardscape you're looking to for.


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## Kalum (22 Feb 2018)

Thanks Steveo, cheers for the reminder about sourcing the stone as well. They should get back to me today so will see what they have available at the minute.

Been watching your journal closely and it's pretty similar to what i'm looking to do and similar setup (apart from i can't match that ADA filter.....)

I'm sure i'll have my fair share of teething issues with this as well but it's all part of learning about it all. At least i'll have everything i need to make it work in theory so it's just down to me to make it work!


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## Kalum (22 Feb 2018)

So the first picture of the hardscape has arrived, it's been set out in an 80 x 40 x 40 and mine is only 60 wide hence the open space to the right, plus my bonsai will be in the back right corner

The general layout is what I'm after but the stones used on the left look thrown together rather than one piece which bothers me so back to the drawing board


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## steveno (23 Feb 2018)

Kalum said:


> (apart from i can't match that ADA filter.....)


A Eheim Pro 4+ 350t seem to have a lot of feature that my ADA ES600 doesn't have, the integrated heater for one will reduce the amount of kit in the cabinet, it has compartments, my filter is essentially an glorified EHEIM classic in a stainless steel tube. Maintenance is likely to be a bit of mare, and you noticed that i have left my filter exposed to show it of, but in doing i didn't account for the pump noise, its quite noisy so have had to line walls in acoustic foam just to make it bearable... in hindsight i might have gone with something else, less noisy and easier to maintain.



Kalum said:


> I'm sure I'll have my fair share of teething issues with this as well but it's all part of learning about it all


I hear you, I've actually been involve in this hobby for quite a number of years, but had a break for a couple of years from it due lack of time and other commitments, but glad  I'm back relearning and learning more each day. Deciding to attempt to create a UG carpet certainly hasn't made things easier, that plant is giving me more grey hairs. , but loving the challenge.

Seem like your going for a mountain scape, looking good, thou the bonsai could a little out of scale in the above scape. I when back over your thread but couldn't see a picture of the bonsai. I'm considering an bonsai scape for my next nano project, which i would like to keep an betta like yours, something along the lines of the scape below, thou still looking for the right bonsai and need to get my other scape settle first.


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## Kalum (23 Feb 2018)

steveno said:


> A Eheim Pro 4+ 350t seem to have a lot of feature that my ADA ES600 doesn't have, the integrated heater for one will reduce the amount of kit in the cabinet, it has compartments, my filter is essentially an glorified EHEIM classic in a stainless steel tube. Maintenance is likely to be a bit of mare, and you noticed that i have left my filter exposed to show it of, but in doing i didn't account for the pump noise, its quite noisy so have had to line walls in acoustic foam just to make it bearable... in hindsight i might have gone with something else, less noisy and easier to maintain.
> 
> 
> I hear you, I've actually been involve in this hobby for quite a number of years, but had a break for a couple of years from it due lack of time and other commitments, but glad  I'm back relearning and learning more each day. Deciding to attempt to create a UG carpet certainly hasn't made things easier, that plant is giving me more grey hairs. , but loving the challenge.
> ...



The integrated heater was the deciding factor for me, was a bit apprehensive thinking if the heater packs in then it's a costly fix/replace but after pricing up a separate equivalent Eheim 350 and Hydor 300w heater there was very little cost saving so it made up my mind. The maintenance is an easy thing to overlook and it's my first external filter so that'll be something i'm still to experience. As long as any bio media is bagged etc it shouldn't pose too much of a problem in your case? Bit surprised about the pump noise from the ADA, possibly due to it being all metal? It still does look great though.........

Yeh carpets are my nemesis so far, but i know i've had poor flow/co2 distribution in my current tank so hopefully i can rectify that in this one as i'll be trying an HC carpet (again)

Scale is something i've been thinking about and i know i'm making life difficult with being adamant about the bonsai but it was the driving factor in me going down the planted route but fingers crossed i can make it work. It's around the same height as the smaller stone in the scape above so hopefully will work ok in that hardscape, it does in my head but i'm still learning on that side of things so comments are always welcome on that front


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## zozo (23 Feb 2018)

Kalum said:


> As I'll be using a lot of stone in this, inert stone was the way to go in my mind
> 
> After searching about, with nowhere close by to pick out what I want and not keen on playing a lottery of ordering a lot of expensive stone I might not like when it shows up, I've spoken to Aquaman Nature Studio over in Poland and they are putting together a project scape for me. Sent them a sketch of what I want along with photos as reference so will see what they come up with. Should be done by midweek



You can also check out Facebook Ancient stone also situated in Poland i believe. The show and offer complete scaped setups, dimensions are given as wel as price + shipping cost.

Like this one  € 87 and shipping to UK is €18.


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## Kalum (23 Feb 2018)

zozo said:


> You can also check out Facebook Ancient stone also situated in Poland i believe. The show and offer complete scaped setups, dimensions are given as wel as price + shipping cost.
> 
> Like this one  € 87 and shipping to UK is €18.



That's the same company zozo 

I did see that one and I do really like it, but it's just a bit big for what i have planned


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## Kalum (23 Feb 2018)

Take 2.....


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2018)

Kalum said:


> Tank - Aqua One Opti White 60 x 40 x 40


Where did you mange to get one of those from, I've been after one for a while, but sadly I don't think they're made any more.


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## Kalum (23 Feb 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Where did you mange to get one of those from, I've been after one for a while, but sadly I don't think they're made any more.



Pure luck, I was looking at buying a new ADA tank but had a quick look on gumtree and it was for sale locally so jumped at it. Dimensions are great and impressed with the quality

Just seen your wanted thread and I think it's classed as an 85 not 80 btw


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2018)

Thanks Kalum


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## pawelski (2 Mar 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Where did you mange to get one of those from, I've been after one for a while, but sadly I don't think they're made any more.



All Pond Solutions sell low iron tanks with the same dimensions, not too expensive, not sure if they are any good. I've been thinking of getting one... https://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquarium/fish-tanks/tropical/ultra-clear-90l/


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## Tim Harrison (2 Mar 2018)

I've been there...the quality is at best questionable and APS customer care can leave something to be desired https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/aps-optiwhite-aquarium.50124/


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## pawelski (2 Mar 2018)

Right, if it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is.

Thanks for that, I'll stay clear off that tank!


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## Kalum (6 Mar 2018)

Got a wee delivery from Poland today


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## Patrick Crowley (7 Mar 2018)

Looks good 

How do you turn these loose stones into the hardscape you bought?  You just have to work it out or what?


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## Kalum (7 Mar 2018)

Patrick Crowley said:


> Looks good
> 
> How do you turn these loose stones into the hardscape you bought?  You just have to work it out or what?



Yup, stone jigsaw puzzle, but tbh i wasn't totally happy with the scape they produced and want to change it up a bit but i did like the stones and am happy with them now they've arrived. 

Now the challenge of creating something that looks good and not just a few stones thrown together...


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## MDP91 (7 Mar 2018)

Love those rocks, where did you buy them from?


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## Kalum (7 Mar 2018)

Rather than clog up this journal I've created a new thread to critique on while I decide on the hardscape 

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/manten-ancient-stone-hardscape-options.52336/


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## Kalum (7 Mar 2018)

MDP91 said:


> Love those rocks, where did you buy them from?



Thanks, got them from Aquaman Nature Studio in Poland and shipped across


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## MDP91 (7 Mar 2018)

Really like them, might have a look


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## Kalum (12 Mar 2018)

Hardscape complete


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## Kalum (17 Mar 2018)

1 week in

Current plant list is:

Rotala sp green
Rotala Colorata
Rotala Vietnam H'ra
Limnophila Hippuridoides
Blyxa Japonica
Staurogyne Repens 
Alternanthera Reineckii Mini
Fissidens Fontanus

HC still to be added and deciding whether I'm going to add moss or riccardia to the rock or not 

Excuse the ugly outlet it's only temporary


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## Kalum (22 Mar 2018)

While this tank cycles and settles in I thought it would be a good idea to get my EI dosing sorted, I prefer to try and learn 'why' than just blindly follow, it will mean a few bumps along the way but I'll hopefully have a better understanding down the line

Here are my EI calculations (overthinking I know but I'd rather that than just dose heavy and wonder why later). I've not worked out micro mix individual ppm yet but will do later

85L tank is high tech, CO2 and high light
35L tanks (x2) one will be low tech and the other will be liquid co2


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## Edvet (22 Mar 2018)

Kalum said:


> just dose heavy


That's kind of the idea behind EI, dose high and waterchange. I am afraid you are overthinking and we have learned overthinking leads to problems sadly


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## Kalum (22 Mar 2018)

Edvet said:


> That's kind of the idea behind EI, dose high and waterchange. I am afraid you are overthinking and we have learned overthinking leads to problems sadly



and that's exactly what i'm planning on doing (as per the dosing), nothing wrong with trying to understand it and tailor to my tanks if i'm willing to put in the effort 

all i've done is taken the recommended 'heavy' target ppm per week and tailor the EI mix to meet that, teach a man to fish and all that....

if theres something glaringly wrong with my thinking and dose it would be great to hear peoples thoughts so i can understand more


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## Edvet (22 Mar 2018)

I like this one: https://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=dosing-with-dry-salts


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## Kalum (22 Mar 2018)

Edvet said:


> I like this one: https://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=dosing-with-dry-salts



Thanks Edvet, that's exactly what mine was based on, using the values listed and tailored to my tank size and 20ml daily dose (with 1/4 dose on lower tech tanks), I'll compare the exact mix and see how it fairs against it


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## Kalum (5 Apr 2018)

Sorted my Ferts and I've stopped overcomplcating things so I'm dosing as per the link above

Updates are, fighting a diatom battle at the minute and planted some HC 8 days ago and my carpet nemesis is struggling with adapting to under water life and is dying off, hoping for a bounce back in the next week or 2

CO2 is lime green for lights on at around 3bps and I've been on a reduced 5 hour photo period to control diatoms with the twinstar 600s at only 25%

8 days ago just after planting HC


 

Today


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## CooKieS (5 Apr 2018)

Hc is OK, just in adaptation phase...I'm more worried about your fissidens...seems burned?

Are you using liquid carbon or dosing too much iron maybe?

Otherwise I really like your rocks, nice scape!


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## Kalum (5 Apr 2018)

CooKieS said:


> Hc is OK, just in adaptation phase...I'm more worried about your fissidens...seems burned?
> 
> Are you using liquid carbon or dosing too much iron maybe?
> 
> Otherwise I really like your rocks, nice scape!



Thanks mate, not quite happy at the minute but will hopefully turn out OK once it's grown in and matured

Fissidens is just covered in diatoms, going to do a heavy trim at the weekend 

Dosing 2ml LC daily and iron is approx 0.7ppm a week


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## CooKieS (5 Apr 2018)

Liquid carbon is not necessary, in particular with sensitive moss like fissidens


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## Kalum (9 Apr 2018)

Few small updates

The good -  added my cal aqua lily pipe and replaced the tubing with clear chihiros 16/22mm, took the bonsai out and after noticing quite a lot of dead fissidens underneath due to gluing I ripped it all off and replaced with new that I got from @Ryan Thang To and used string to secure it this time, much neater so fingers crossed. Good growth on the Limnophila Hippuridoides and blyxa is looking healthy, trimmed a couple of inches off the rotala as well

The bad - new lily pipe isn't providing much if at all surface agitation even sat close to the surface so co2 levels remain high which fish are struggling with even if its being more affective at reaching lime green drop checker quicker, CO2 will need to be dialled down. Diatoms still rife and HC looks all but dead....

The ugly - floaters are being a pain and are getting sucked into the lily pipe so they might have to go


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## Kalum (13 Apr 2018)

So the HC is only getting worse it seems, its been 2 weeks and only going down hill and can' s how it can bounce back from the state its in, CO2 hasnt been stable the last week due to tweaking since fitting the new lily pipe (sorted now) 

Thinking about ripping the HC out tonight, question is do I try again....


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## Tim Harrison (13 Apr 2018)

I think your plants might be suffering ammonia burn. ADA AS releases a huge amount of ammonia over the first couple or three weeks, dosing fertz and LC might actually make that worse by further increasing the solute concentration of the tank water.
I suspect what happens is...increased solute concentration lowers the water potential of the tank water and increases the relative osmotic potential of the plant cell. The result is that net transport of water will then be from the plant cell to the tank water, instead of the other way around.
This in turn causes a negative pressure potential in the plant cell which then collapses in on itself and eventually dies or suffers necrosis; melts. The dead plant cells then release more organics exacerbating the situation, and diatomaceous algae results.
Regardless of the mechanism, I reckon I've suffered it myself, and have since learnt that when using AS some folk cycle the tank without plants, no additives nor light, or water changes for that length of time first https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cycling-without-plants.52187/


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## Kalum (13 Apr 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> I think your plants might be suffering ammonia burn. ADA AS releases a huge amount of ammonia over the first couple or three weeks, dosing fertz and LC might actually make that worse by increasing the solute concentration of the tank water.
> I suspect what happens is...increased solute concentration lowers the water potential of the tank water and increases the relative osmotic potential of the plant cell. The result is that net transport of water will then be from the plant cell to the tank water, instead of the other way around.
> This in turn causes a negative pressure potential in the plant cell which then collapses in on itself and eventually dies or suffers necrosis; melts. The dead plant cells then release more organics exacerbating the situation, and diatomaceous algae results.
> I've suffered it myself, and have since learnt that when using AS some folk cycle the tank without plants, no additives nor light, or water changes for that length of time first https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cycling-without-plants.52187/



Thanks Tim, this did cross my mind and was why i didn't plant the HC from the beginning. After 2 weeks the ammonia dropped (or was down to a level where it was swiftly dealt with by the seeded filter) and i've not had an ammonia reading since, week 3 was when the HC was planted, it's week 5 now but the damage may have already been done and it might have just been too early to plant while the AS was still leaching ammonia even if at lower levels.

I'm dosing full EI but have stopped dosing LC so I can better evaluate my gas implementation, currently running it at the maximum i can get away with that the fish can tolerate (light green at lights on and lime green by switch off), DC is staying mid green until CO2 comes back on as i have very little surface agitation. Flow is good and if anything too much as the lily pipe directs flow down directly to the bottom right corner


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## Tim Harrison (13 Apr 2018)

Okay, I hadn't realised you'd done the sensible thing and waited for the ammonia spike to subside before planting the HC 
I planted Rotala bonsai, and Stauro in new AS and both grew really well, then literally overnight they seemed to die from the roots up. Eventually, the stems rotted just above the substrate. So maybe the ammonia content of the soil was still pretty high even though it'd stopped leaching in to the water column.
When I reused the same soil in another scape the experience was completely different, there was little in the way of an ammonia spike no melt, and very little diatomaceous algae. Anyway, just speculation, I may actually be way off the mark, and it could have been coincidence, low quality plants, or poor CO2 implementation that let me down, or a combination of factors


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## Kalum (13 Apr 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Okay, I hadn't realised you'd done the sensible thing and waited for the ammonia spike to subside before planting the HC.
> I planted Rotala bonsai, and Stauro in new AS and both grew really well, then literally overnight they seemed to die from the roots up. Eventually, the stems rotted just above the substrate. So maybe the ammonia content of the soil was still pretty high even though it'd stopped leaching in to the water column.
> When I reused the same soil in another scape the experience was completely different, no melt, and very little diatomaceous algae. Anyway, just speculation, I may actually be way off the mark, and it could have been coincidence, low quality plants, or poor CO2 implementation that let me down, or a combination of factors.



Yeh everything else was planted from the start but i wanted to wait till the ammonia settled as i know it can be sensitive to it. But i think you might be on to something with the AS possibly still stabilising from the ammonia spike, CO2 levels have been pretty high but have not been consistent since planting so could be affecting it.

Stauro has settled for me now and diatoms reduced but isn't growing and appears stunted (also losing lower leaves), rotala is growing vertically but leaves appear stunted and very small

Appreciate the input, it's helping me narrow down where i can make changes or rule things out to get things on point


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## Kalum (15 Apr 2018)

Diatoms still really bad on the sand between the rocks but loving the fish in this, constant hive of activity and each with their own personalities split over all levels 

Needs a carpet planted and take 2 will be attempted this week, fingers and toes are crossed for this attempt now things area bit more stable in the tank


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## CooKieS (15 Apr 2018)

My carpet is half dead too...this is the last Time I use Ada Amazonia...next Time I'll use tropica, always had great result.


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## Kalum (15 Apr 2018)

CooKieS said:


> My carpet is half dead too...this is the last Time I use Ada Amazonia...next Time I'll use tropica, always had great result.



How long after flooding are you?

Think this is day 34 for me in this tank so I'm hoping things have settled down, diatoms have been crazy and only now are my blyxa and limnophila are growing well but rotala seems to be a bit stunted leaf wise and slow growing, removed the Staurogyne but AR mini is doing well, so definite mixed results which is hard to get my head round


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## Kalum (22 Apr 2018)

Take 2 on the HC carpet...


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## Jayefc1 (22 Apr 2018)

Fingers crossed for u mate can t see why hc wouldn't grow in amazionia soil mine has gone mad in the stuff


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## Daveslaney (22 Apr 2018)

It looks to me like your lilly pipe is directing the flow downwards.I would try angling your lilly pipe backwards at the top so the flow goes straight across the surface of the water. This will improve the surface agitation and as though it doesnt sound logical will actually improve the co2 along the bottom of your tank. The flow travels along the top hits the glass on the other side then travels down and flows back along the bottom. Better than having a downward facing lilly pipe.
This should improve your chances with the HC.


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## Kalum (22 Apr 2018)

You're right in that surface agitation is virually non existent with this lily pipe but the flow hits around 1/3 to half way up the right hand side glass and then splits downwards across the substrate and round towards the back past the bonsai at the minute


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## Kalum (23 Apr 2018)

Feeling like I'm slowly starting to make progress with this tank, diatoms have reduced massively, in part due to the ottos I introduced but it also doesn't seem to be reappearing at all, been slowly upping the lighting by 5% every 2nd day for the past 10 days and feel like I've got the Co2 dialled in and flow sorted

2nd day of pearling with the tops showing an ever so slight pink tinge


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## Tim Harrison (23 Apr 2018)

Nice healthy growth; definitely making progress


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## Jayefc1 (23 Apr 2018)

Looking Good bro hope the carpet kicks in too


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## CooKieS (24 Apr 2018)

Good luck with the new carpet


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## Gabriel19 (25 Apr 2018)

Where did you get these rocks? They’re awesome!


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## Kalum (25 Apr 2018)

Cheers all

Stones are from Aquaman Design Studio in Poland


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## Kalum (6 Dec 2018)

well after 9 months i've decided to re-scape and i'm going down a similar route as my other tank and using wood (with buces) instead of stone

Will post up a pic of this before it's torn down as it's quite different and overgrown from above 

Stone from this and a fair bit of Blyxa will be up for sale next week (and the bonsai)


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