# Are discus really that hard to keep? Now with photos :)



## mikehookipa (26 Sep 2016)

I've read a lot of things on discus and planted tanks. 

I'm a bit confused - do discus really require special conditions? Sorry I need to ask this straight up because I've never kept discus.

Arguments I've seen:

a) Temperature - My tank is at 82F, if I increase it by a couple degrees to fit the discus, are my plants really going to die? Also if my tank is maintained at 82F, are the discus really going to get sick/stunt or die? Really?

b) Uneaten food - I currently feed my tank 3-5 times a day..The tank has 90% plant coverage of surface area. I've never seen uneaten food or had any problems. Nitrates....ummm...It's almost at zero due to plants. 

c) Co2, I don't gas my fish (Dantum Angels, Wild caught Scalare angelfish)...it's at moderate levels. The water isn't sour. So if I drop a couple discus in the tank, do they discus die soon after even though my other fish breed readily? 

d) Light too bright - I have yet to see any fish that are sensitive to bright light. Are discus really that different? 

e) Special water parameters - I've read about people tinkering with their water like hardness and ph, testing water, etc. For my planted tanks, I've never tested water once cycled. What is it about discus that require some kind of special water....

I've kept hundreds of fish in my planted tanks. The only fish that have died on repeated tries is german rams. All other fish are SUPER HAPPY. 

So my request is - please talk about your personal failures with discus in planted tanks. I'm just trying to confirm if all the "dont do discus in planted tanks" is true. Trying to put it into perspective, because beginners kill even plants...


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## mikehookipa (26 Sep 2016)

most of the stuff I've read goes something like this "Don't do this, don't do that. Barebottom is best, discus are sensitive but more hardy than people think". 

It's very rare to find people say "I have tried _____ and it did not work because _____". 

Or

"In my personal experience....."

Or

"Comparing discus-centric tanks vs community/planted discus tanks...discus-centric tanks achieve better results"

Or

"My discus died while my other fish are perfectly fine"

I don't mean to be stubborn, it's just that I find a lot of info that go around forums is not personal info but just multiplications/amplification of other people's experiences. Ie. planted tanks were doing fine way before aquasoil and Dry ferts (this trend only started several years ago). Also people say "PAR is superior measurement than WPG"....ummm....doesn't higher Watts = higher PAR? Is there really a difference between ph 6.5 and 7.2???


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## flygja (27 Sep 2016)

In my personal experience...


Discus are definitely more finnicky than other common types of aquarium fish. Seeing that you have wild-caught scalare, I don't think you'll have a big problem with discus. The first thing you need to decide is how far you want to go with your discus. If you wanna grow award-winning 12 inch discus, or make living selling discus fry, then barebottomed tank, daily water changes, no CO2, etc is the way to go. 

If not then...

a) Temperature - My tank is at 82F, if I increase it by a couple degrees to fit the discus, are my plants really going to die? Also if my tank is maintained at 82F, are the discus really going to get sick/stunt or die? Really?
Higher temps = higher metabolism for faster growth and better resistance to disease. 82'F (around 27'C) is fine in my experience. Don't forget the rivers they live in sometimes drop to 26'C during the cooler months at night.

b) Uneaten food - I currently feed my tank 3-5 times a day..The tank has 90% plant coverage of surface area. I've never seen uneaten food or had any problems. Nitrates....ummm...It's almost at zero due to plants. 
Discus are messy eaters so there tends to be more uneaten food. If you feed commercial fish food, there's less worry for uneaten food. If you wanna feed beef/pork hearts, then uneaten food will go bad quite quickly. I have cories to help with that.

c) Co2, I don't gas my fish (Dantum Angels, Wild caught Scalare angelfish)...it's at moderate levels. The water isn't sour. So if I drop a couple discus in the tank, do they discus die soon after even though my other fish breed readily? 
I noticed that high CO2 levels seem to affect discus behaviour, as in they're less active. They seem to show less colour too. Sorry I forgot what was the CO2 ppm measurement.

d) Light too bright - I have yet to see any fish that are sensitive to bright light. Are discus really that different? 
If your lights are too bright, discus will tend to hide in the shade. This probably doesn't affect the discus, but you won't see it that much either. And the more they hide, the less colour they show.

e) Special water parameters - I've read about people tinkering with their water like hardness and ph, testing water, etc. For my planted tanks, I've never tested water once cycled. What is it about discus that require some kind of special water....
Special water parameters are needed for breeding and growing show discus. Otherwise, normal planted tank water should be sufficient, as long as its not too extreme.


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## Aqua360 (27 Sep 2016)

practically anyone with a slightly above rudimentary understanding of fishkeeping will be able to sustain them, to what extent health wise is dependent on just how closely their water parameters are maintained.

Like a lot of species now, captive breeding has increased the hardiness of discus; they still require the high temps etc though; and I can tell from your original post that you've taken the important factors into consideration, so wouldn't expect you to have a problem


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## DavidW (27 Sep 2016)

mikehookipa said:


> I'm a bit confused - do discus really require special conditions?


I started keeping discus 2 years ago and they are the fish I have had least issues with health wise. Water conditions will depend on where you get your discus from I get my discus from a LFS that specialises in discus, the ones it stocks are Stendker Discus which are raised in normal tap water parameters. The only thing I do to my tap water is run it through a HMA Filter, heat it to 28 degrees and put it straight into the tank. I do a 30% water change on a weekly basis. You will need a large filter probably one rated for twice your tank capacity Discus are messy. I don't add any special salter etc. 

My Discus have never become ill and seem to be quite tolerant, your best bet is to get discus breed in water conditions similar to the water where you live.


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## mikehookipa (3 Oct 2016)

Hi all - Thanks for the advice. I saw some nice adult discus for sale and went for it. A lot of mixed sentiments on high tech tanks vs discus. It's what got me really curious. From a logical standpoint, I felt it could be done. I don't got my own views on it yet but I will find out. Hopefully this will turn into years of observation and learning. This is my first time keeping discus.

Below is my 75 gallon tank. Currently seeking out 125g+ aquarium to transfer whole setup into something with a big more room. Will shut down 75 gallon. 




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Couple learning points:
a) Big Discus poop large, potential hazard to water conditions
b) Super beautiful view

Video of Kings of the Aquarium:
Tank specs, maintenance routine, stocklist in description.
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## sciencefiction (4 Oct 2016)

flygja said:


> Don't forget the rivers they live in sometimes drop to 26'C during the cooler months at night.



I was researching discus for a while once and found multiple references, mostly on Heiko Bleher's website (http://www.aquapress-bleher.com) that discus fish in nature live in waters at temperatures 26-27'C max.

In the aquarium hobby the discus are the fish version of pigs with that difference they are not cut into chops eventually.   Discus keepers that trade those fish, feed them massive amounts of fat food, resulting in high aquarium maintenance, but this way they grow big and fast, ready for sale as soon as possible. Similar tactics can be applied to almost any fry if you want them to grow fast and big.

If you keep fish in almost sterile conditions, wiping the tank and filter pads, if any, daily, the resultant offspring in my opinion would be not well equipped to deal with the various microbes they may get exposed to in the future in different fish homes. Multiply that by the number of years discus are bred this way, and now almost any discus fish that comes out for sale is quite the sensitive type.

I am inclined to believe, that providing the right water stats, wild fish are more resilient than the ones we rear artificially. We breed fish for looks, nothing else.


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## KipperSarnie (4 Oct 2016)

sciencefiction said:


> I was researching discus for a while once and found multiple references, mostly on Heiko Bleher's website (http://www.aquapress-bleher.com) that discus fish in nature live in waters at temperatures 26-27'C max.
> 
> In the aquarium hobby the discus are the fish version of pigs with that difference they are not cut into chops eventually.   Discus keepers that trade those fish, feed them massive amounts of fat food, resulting in high aquarium maintenance, but this way they grow big and fast, ready for sale as soon as possible. Similar tactics can be applied to almost any fry if you want them to grow fast and big.
> 
> ...



Now! aint that the truth!


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## Smells Fishy (4 Oct 2016)

That's a seriously nice planted tank and the discus look lovely.  Nice one.

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## rebel (5 Oct 2016)

The king of DIY had this video which you may have seen.


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## flygja (11 Oct 2016)

Nice discus you have there. Good that you're upgrading to 125 gal. 75 gal is sufficient for them at this stage, but once they start pairing and laying eggs, more space is needed since the mating pair will defend their space.


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## dean (28 Oct 2016)

Selective breeding (inbreeding) to produce fast growing young that have a certain look / colour can in my opinion only make the fish weaker compared to the wild fish. I'll take wild discus every time over a show winning man made mutation


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