# stirring substrate



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

hey guys i'm looking for some evidence regarding the stirring of substrates, and why we really don't need to do it. Or the reasons that the gasses will just gas off, and 'not be toxic' to the fish...

anyone got anything?


----------



## mlgt (11 Feb 2011)

I would stir the substrate on a newly set up tank, but that is way before I have added fishes into the set up. I would also add a handful of MTS and hope they will do their job. I would use a chopstick and do a criss cross pattern every 1-2cm and do it throughout the whole tank.

If you do notice bubbles then just remove then. I wouldnt do it in a proper established set up as the gas can be toxic, but If I ever had to do that. I would follow this up with an immediate water change.


----------



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

So, the gases don't diseminate into the water, I have also read somewhere that the gases aren't as toxic as once thought. I just can't find this statement and find where it came from.


----------



## Tom (11 Feb 2011)

If you use fine sand or something, it can go 'anaerobic' and will be nasty if stirred up. Non-planted areas of fine sand might benefit from a stir occasionally. Initially it will help to release trapped air and settle the substrate. Larger grains shouldn't need stirring.


----------



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

is there any chemical explanation to this?

I have deffinatly read somewhere that the gasses let off are not near as dangerous to fish than first thought.


----------



## Tom (11 Feb 2011)

ianho said:
			
		

> is there any chemical explanation to this?



It smells   

I have stirred up nasty black anaerobic sand with fish in the tank with no ill effects, but I'm not sure how bad it actually is. Just looks and smells bad!


----------



## GreenNeedle (11 Feb 2011)

I thought the process was that Hydrogen sulphide forms but when it hits the oxygenated water immediately turns into Sulphur Oxide rendering it harmless?

Is this only an issue with fine particle substrates?  or could it happen in a larger grain gravel like pea gravel?

AC


----------



## LondonDragon (11 Feb 2011)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Is this only an issue with fine particle substrates?  or could it happen in a larger grain gravel like pea gravel?


Happens in my Rio with larger grain gravel  if I vacuum it at water changes then its fine. Used to happen more often when I had low flow in the tank, under gravel heater didn't help either as I tried that many moons ago.


----------



## GreenNeedle (11 Feb 2011)

Did it affect fish health Paulo?

I regularly have bubble streams coming through the sand but no deaths or effect on fish health as far as I can observe.

AC


----------



## LondonDragon (11 Feb 2011)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Did it affect fish health Paulo?
> I regularly have bubble streams coming through the sand but no deaths or effect on fish health as far as I can observe.


None that I could attribute to that, it did smell awful though!


----------



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

Thats what i was thinking Andy, i just need something more concrete on the matter. Anyone done a thesis on this? lol


----------



## Ian Holdich (11 Feb 2011)

got it!

http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat. ... Substrates


----------

