# 10x flow, ok for fish?



## pjf220 (18 Feb 2010)

Ok, I'm sure this has been covered many times over, but I have two mates, at either end of the scale, and I need some reassurance.

I have a 170l tank so the ideal is 1700l p.h. flow... enter the Eheim 2080. On paper looks perfect and has great reviews from users. One mate has a larger tank than me and has 3x flow with co2 feed and regrets not getting a bigger filter so has been really banging it home about how I must have 10x. The other mate has a basic filter with no co2 and his plants are doing very well. He thinks I'm insaine to get 10x flow and says the fish will not be able to swim in the fast current it will produce. My mate with 3x flow has the tetras etc swimming in to the current and they do ok, but I then think that the poor fella's will be trying to cope with over 3x this amount.

Or have I got this all wrong?

Just want to reassure myself before I go and buy the filter.


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## JamesM (18 Feb 2010)

I have 1500lph on a 70 litre tank. Fish or shrimp don't have a problem.


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## Garuf (18 Feb 2010)

I use a 1200lph filter on a 60x30x30. That gives I believe over 20x the turnover and I had no issue what so ever. My next tank will have over 20x turnover again. It really is no issue for the fish as long as the output is not a high pressure one, this is where lillys and spray bars come into their own. 

Don't worry, my fish seemed so much healthier when I upped my flow, playing in the flow eating more and much much more colourful. 
Most fish come from the pantanal which I read if you where to take water column movement into account and scale it for a 50gallon tank would mean you'd need 50,000gph turnover at a very low pressure. A lot more than 10x an hour that isn't it!


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## Nick16 (18 Feb 2010)

filtration is different from flow. i find that fish cope with high levels of flow from filters, but struggle more agains the precise flow of koralias. 

obviously by upping the flow (you can get a filter and have both), better filtration and flow

if you are using a spraybar, the fish will be fine, its more 'direct' nozzles that some fish arent so keen of. 

oh and having two filters means you get a redundant system, if one breaks, you still have enough filtration for the tank for the time being. only having one filter is like not quarantining, - its russian roulette and eventually you will get the 'bullet'


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## George Farmer (18 Feb 2010)

Hi pjf220 and welcome to UKAPS!

Depends on the fish, as well as how the flow is distributed.

It's possible using koralia-type powerheads, lily pipes or spraybars to have (claimed max.) 20x flow without excess turbulence. 

On the other tank I kept a betta in a 25 litre nano with a 300lph filter and the fish had a hard time.

You hinted at something worth mentioning with your non-CO2, low turnover mate.  Because the nutrient demand is lower, the circulation can be lower too.  

Generally the more light and nutrients you provide, the more circulation you will require to give the plants what they require in order to help prevent algae issues.

To summarise, in concurrence with James and Gareth, I think you will be perfectly fine with your chosen filter and tank size.


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## pjf220 (18 Feb 2010)

That's all reassuring to know. will be getting the filter very soon. I guess it makes sense the fish seem healthier as they are going to be more active and in turn this creates a more pleasing environment. A tank looks better with fish swimming about rather than a tank where the fish just wander about infrequently.


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## Ed Seeley (18 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Most fish come from the pantanal which I read if you where to take water column movement into account and scale it for a 50gallon tank would mean you'd need 50,000gph turnover at a very low pressure. A lot more than 10x an hour that isn't it!



Huh?  "Most fish" come from one region in South America?  You've lost me there.  Not even most species of fish in South America come from the Pantanal, never mind mind most fish altogether!

Also the flow within the Pantanal systems is reknowned for being relatively slow for most of the year due to the flat, flooded nature of this open swamp/grassland.  Only the main channels are meant to flow noticeably at all.  Where did you get your info from Garuf?


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## Garuf (18 Feb 2010)

I read it on JBLs (?) site/blog from their expedition, I thought I'd read it was going to be tetras but reading back it didn't!
Most of the tetras that are in the hobby I'd read that they're from the flooded forests ie- the pantanal. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I've a feeling I've confused the pantanal for something else.


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## Ed Seeley (18 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I read it on JBLs (?) site/blog from their expedition, I thought I'd read it was going to be tetras but reading back it didn't!
> Most of the tetras that are in the hobby I'd read that they're from the flooded forests ie- the pantanal. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I've a feeling I've confused the pantanal for something else.



The flooded forests are often called Igapo which refers to the low lands in that area.

The Pantanal is an open grassy/swampy wetland.  It is said to be the largest wetland in the world.  Many species of fish come from there (including rams and various tetras and apistos) but there are plenty in other places too!

http://www.pantanal.org/Mainpant.htm


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## sanj (20 Feb 2010)

when talking about x10 flow it doesnt mean a whirlpool, the flow is pretty diffuse not a pressure hose. Your friend with a small one, has got the wrong idea.


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## daniel19831123 (21 Feb 2010)

I've got 3500LPH in a 100L tank so I've got 35x flow and the otos seemed fine with although they do struggle to swim in the current against the wave maker. Give them a few days and they just learn how to avoid that persistent stream of current and they are doing fine now.


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