# Algae Problems



## Adam Dunkley (13 Oct 2020)

Hi everyone, new to this forum. Hope everyone is being safe from COVID.

I’m Adam. I will try explaining my issues as best as I can and give all relevant info.

I have a planted Juwel Rio 125L freshwater aquarium, which has been set up since 28th February 2020.

I have the standard filter system in the tank, Juwel Bioflow with the upgraded 1000 LPH pump. (Medium size) the media layout is as below (from top to bottom of the casing in each basket)

poly pad
Carbon pad
Nitrax
Coarse 

Fine
Cirax granules 
Fine 
(Gap for water flow) 

I have added the Ecco skimmer too as that corner of the tank seemed ‘dead’ from a sufficient water flow from the pump, so hoped this would help pull the water through from the corner and into the filter after receiving the end of the flow from the pump.

I am suffering bad algae issues, turning my background black, ornaments black/green, and glass green slimy type. All over the plants is a grey type of covering which seems to wipe off.

water parameters are hard in my area, ammonia nitrite and nitrate are at 0.
Attached pictures to show.

any help or opinions would be appreciated.


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## Wookii (13 Oct 2020)

Welcome to the forum Adam.

It might be worth checking this thread: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/please-read-the-guidelines-for-algae-help.60672/

. . . and supplying the information requested in it, which will allow people to assist you more easily.


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## Adam Dunkley (13 Oct 2020)

Hello,

thanks for the welcome.

so do I just post on that thread directly? With all the info?


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## Wookii (13 Oct 2020)

No, just add it all to this one. The mods might move this thread to the algae section though.


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2020)

Hi all,
Welcome 





Adam Dunkley said:


> water parameters are hard in my area, ammonia nitrite and nitrate are at 0.
> Attached pictures to show. Any help or opinions would be appreciated.


It is a tricky one, looking at the plants my guess is that at least <"one of the nutrients essential for plant growth is missing">. 

Have a look through the links in the linked thread and see if any of that helps.  

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison (13 Oct 2020)

Looks like the plant leaves are covered in detritus as well as algae. The leaves of one of your plants are edged with BBA, which is down to poor CO2 and build up of organics. Could be worthwhile cleaning your filter on a regular basis, if you don't already. And vacuuming your sand and performing regular water changes at least 50% once a week.

Your tank is very sparsely planted this often leaves them vulnerable to algae infestation for various reasons as well. So you might want to consider buying a lot more plants. Floating plants and those with leaves that grow across the surface like vallis would be good choices.

What fertz are you dosing?
Is it low-energy?
Is the substrate just sand?
What lighting do you have, and what is the duration of the photoperiod?


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (13 Oct 2020)

Looks to me like you have the early onset of Black Brush Algae (BBA).

This type of algae prompts a huge debate as to its causes, but there are two recurring themes:  too much organic waste, and low (or fluctuating) CO₂.

In your pictures there seems to be a lot of solid organic matter (“mulm”) accumulated on the leaves and caught up in the algae hairs. This could indicate that there’s lots of organic waste for the algae to feed on. I would recommend vacuuming as much of this out with your water changes as possible.

And I also notice that your drop checker is blue. The fact that you’re using a drop checker implies that you’re using injected CO₂ and that you’re using high light. It could be that your pictures were taken just after lights-on, in which case a blue drop checker is okay provided it goes a nice light green within two hours (the drop checker lags behind the actual CO₂ concentration). Does this happen? If not, then the insufficient CO₂ may be a cause of your BBA.

We really need to know what lights you have, and how long they’re on for. Too much light may also be a cause.


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## Adam Dunkley (13 Oct 2020)

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the welcome and helping me out.

so I clean the leaves etc every time I do a water change and I change around 40% weekly. I have vacuumed the filter out a few times and always clean the pump etc.

I have started dosing seachem flourish as I thought a fertiliser might help due to some nutrient missing in there.However this hasn’t made it any better or worse. (Dose recommend amount weekly after water change)

Co2 is injected yes, and was blue because the lights had only been on for a few mins. Drop checker is always a nice green before lights off etc.

I am very hesitant about the co2 injecting to much and poisoning my fish as a few weeks ago this happened and they all went heaven and back. Lol. Managed to save them.

I use seachem prime conditioner and seachem pristine weekly when doing a water change.

the lights are standard Juwel multilux led. I think it comes standard with day bulb at front and nature bulb at rear. Lights are on 4pm - 10pm, co2 is 3pm - 9pm.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Oct 2020)

Welcome! 



Adam Dunkley said:


> . . . and nitrate are at 0.


Nitrate is an important plant nutrient.


Adam Dunkley said:


> dosing seachem flourish


Unfortunately Flourish does not contain nitrate, or phosphate. A complete fertiliser might be a better choice.

More plants would help to establish a balance in favour of plants and against algae, preferably fast-growing species, stem plants, eg; Hygrophila, Hornwort, Indian Fern, Elodea, Najas, and/or floating plants, eg Salvinia or Frogbit.


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





Adam Dunkley said:


> I have started dosing seachem flourish


<"Seachem Flourish">  is a micronutrient  (or trace element) source,  but it isn't a complete fertiliser mix (like "TNC Complete" etc).

There is nothing wrong with any of these proprietary mixes, but they <"are an expensive option">, if you buy all the products you need to supply all the fourteen mineral nutrients.





Adam Dunkley said:


> Co2 is injected yes,


Your plants can only make  use of that extra carbon if all the other nutrients are available, it is the <"assembly line principle">.  

I'm not a CO2 user, so I'll leave other members to  advise you on that.

If you have a <"floating plant"> it takes carbon availability (and algae)  out of the equation, and you know that any deficiencies in growth are nutrient based.

cheers Darrel


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## milla (13 Oct 2020)

The Nitrax pads remove nitrates i wouldn't have that in a plantef tank.


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## dw1305 (13 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





milla said:


> The Nitrax pads remove nitrates


That is an interesting question. <"Fluval seem to suggest"> that the inner sections of the sponge foster anaerobic denitrification, and the outer sections the aerobic oxidation of ammonia to nitrate and nitrate. Let's just say I'm dubious,  and if it was true it wouldn't <"necessarily be a good thing">.

They also suggest that this sponge promotes plant growth, while reducing algal growth, which is <"quite an impressive claim">. My guess would be that the only impressive thing about <"the sponge is its price">.

cheers Darrel


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## Adam Dunkley (13 Oct 2020)

Hmm, ok guys. Thanks for all your thoughts.

maybe I should plant up some more with floating plants too and see how that goes then maybe use TNC complete or try removing the nitrate sponge.

I’m guessing we are all agreed the plants aren’t getting something they need and the algae is?


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## Ags11 (13 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> ammonia nitrite and nitrate are at 0



Just a thought, I don’t think nitrate should be zero, as it is a key nutrient.


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## Adam Dunkley (13 Oct 2020)

I don’t know what to do to get them up. Lol.
No matter what I do they are always 0-0-0


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## sparkyweasel (13 Oct 2020)

dw1305 said:


> They also suggest that this sponge promotes plant growth, while reducing algal growth, which is <"quite an impressive claim">.


It doesn't seem to be living up to that 'suggestion' in @Adam Dunkley 's tank.


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## sparkyweasel (13 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> I don’t know what to do to get them up. Lol.
> No matter what I do they are always 0-0-0


Remove the Nitrex (just in case it's working in your case) and use a complete fertiliser. Start with the TNC Complete, then later on we might get you into mixing your own ferts; it's a lot cheaper, but a good ready-mixed product gives you convenience for a price.


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## dw1305 (14 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 





Adam Dunkley said:


> I don’t know what to do to get them up. Lol. No matter what I do they are always 0-0-0


It is likely to be the test kit. You shouldn't have any detectable ammonia (NH3/NH4+) or nitrite (NO2-), but all tanks will have some nitrate (NO3-).

Have a look at <"Nitrate tests?">.

You should be able to get NO3 levels for your tap water from your water supplier. Because of <"where you live"> you are likely to have ~20ppm NO3 in your tap water.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii (14 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> I don’t know what to do to get them up. Lol.
> No matter what I do they are always 0-0-0



It looks like you're getting plenty of help now, but to summarise your action plan:

1. Remove the Nitrax pads just in case they are in some small way living up to their marketing claim.
2. Buy some TNC Complete and dose the amount recommended for a high tech tank (Amazon) - you'll have to double check this elsewhere on this forum, but I believe the general recommendation is 2-3x the standard daily dose. In addition, if your substrate is just sand, you could consider adding some root tabs (Seachem, Tropica etc) under any new and existing plants to aid their growth.
3. Turn your CO2 on earlier. The drop checker needs to be green just before your lights go on, not after. It can take up to three hours to achieve that, sometimes more in some tanks.
4. Increase planting density (assuming that doesn't impeded your aesthetic goals with the tank). @sparkyweasel gave you a good list to choose from in post 9.
5. Consider adding some clean-up crew (again if they fit with your goals for the tank) - shrimp (probably Amanos as your angel might eat any cherries)/ horned nerite snails. Whilst they may not have much impact on your existing algae, they will certainly assist in reducing future growth providing you sort the above issues out.
6. You have a fairly high bio-load with your current stocking levels, so I'd also increase water changes also - maybe 75% weekly, or stick to your 40% and do it twice weekly if that fits in with 'life' - certainly until the algae starts to recede.

Once you've implemented all the above, give it a few weeks and see if it makes a difference. The algae should hopefully diminish on its own, but some species like BBA can be stubborn to get rid of, even if they no longer grow any further. In that case you can consider getting some Seachem Excel and a small (1mm) syringe and misting some of the algae covered leaves with it (with the filter off for 15 minutes) - sticking to the total recommended tank dose. Before doing so though I would check on here with the knowledgeable folks above on how your specific plants might react to Excel treatment (most are fine, but some delicates ones can melt).


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## Tim Harrison (14 Oct 2020)

So to sum up...

Buy some TNC Complete and dose according to instructions
Plant a load more plants, especially ones like vallis that grow leaves across the surface, and add some floaters.
Rationalise your filter media, get rid of the Nitrex. You might also want to get rid of the poly pad it does very little for water clarity and reduces flow quite considerably. 

Further, turn your gas on a couple or three hours before lights on so that you get a lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off.  Effective, efficient, and consistent CO2 implementation is key. 

Obviously, do this on a day you can monitor the gas flow and adjust accordingly to prevent gassing your critters. 
If you're not too sure it'll help if you read this first CO2 MEASUREMENT USING A DROP CHECKER


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## Wookii (14 Oct 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> So to sum up...



Jinx! 😂


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## Adam Dunkley (14 Oct 2020)

Guys, thank you for the advice. It’s really appreciated.

I have already added seachem tabs under the substrate which I do believe has helped very minimally, but helped. 

So my plan is

1 Remove nitrate pad (heard a lot of negative opinions on these not just from here)

Any opinions on how to lay the media out in the Juwel ecoofkow

2 order TNC complete
3 Order more plants
4 Change co2 injection timing to 12pm - 6pm (lights remain on 4pm - 10pm)? 
5 give it a clean and prepare etc

What do you mean by high bio load with current stock level? Too many fish? 
fish in the tank are
9 neon tetras
8 runnynose 
5 HarleyQuinn rasbora’s
Angel fish 
5 pepper Cory


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## Adam Dunkley (14 Oct 2020)

Problem with removing the poly pad is what sponge media do I use in replacement? As my poly pads look like this in 2 days. And it looks like it’s throwing debris out where it’s suppose to go in. How do I upload a video?


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## Wookii (15 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Guys, thank you for the advice. It’s really appreciated.
> 
> I have already added seachem tabs under the substrate which I do believe has helped very minimally, but helped.
> 
> ...



Yep, bio-load, I mean the waste producing fish ‘mass’. It’s quite high, not too high, but quite high, so they produce a lot of waste. Again, more plants will help you deal with that.


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## Wookii (15 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Problem with removing the poly pad is what sponge media do I use in replacement? As my poly pads look like this in 2 days. And it looks like it’s throwing debris out where it’s suppose to go in. How do I upload a video?



I don’t think anyone suggested you stop using the poly pads, it was the Nitrax sponge (the green one). You can replace this with a standard blue sponge, or better still a bag of media like Seachem Matrix that has a far larger surface area for bacterial colonisation.

Your poly pad does look very dirty for only two days use, though if I understand your filter layout correctly, it does work from the top down, so that is the first media layer.

How much are you feeding your fish?


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

Someone on the page before suggested removing the poly pad.
I haven’t but I have removed the nitrate sponge. Past week everything has seemed better. Got home today and the tank is worse than ever. Don’t know what to do


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## hypnogogia (23 Oct 2020)

I used to have a Juwel ecoflow and reversed the media, so that the coarse sponge was at the tip, followed by medium sponge and then the poly pad.  That way the filter works better and requires less maintenance.


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## Wookii (23 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Someone on the page before suggested removing the poly pad.
> I haven’t but I have removed the nitrate sponge. Past week everything has seemed better. Got home today and the tank is worse than ever. Don’t know what to do



Have you implemented everything we suggested?

Do you have a full tank shot with the new plant mass?


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

I think I’ll give that a go as well then


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

I’ve added 4 more large plants and floating plants.
Dosing a complete tropica fert 
Changed co2 12-6pm left lights 4-10pm
Removed nitrate sponge
It’s changed it’s toll now, it’s not on the ornaments anymore, only the background and leaves. It’s slightly better but slightly worse lol


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

Latest pic


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## Wookii (23 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> I’ve added 4 more large plants and floating plants.
> Dosing a complete tropica fert
> Changed co2 12-6pm left lights 4-10pm
> Removed nitrate sponge
> It’s changed it’s toll now, it’s not on the ornaments anymore, only the background and leaves. It’s slightly better but slightly worse lol



Keep your CO2 on until 9pm. Which Tropica product are you using, and how much of it?

What plants did you add?


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

So co2 is on for 9 hours? Ive left it on too long before and all my fish were half dead. I’m scared to do that again.

I added another amazon sword, 2 Anubias and another one of the type you can see at the front (Xmas tree style looking plant) also floating plants 

Using the fertiliser in pic attached.


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## hypnogogia (23 Oct 2020)

That only adds N and P.  You’re missing K. I’d suggest something like TNC complete.


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## Adam Dunkley (23 Oct 2020)

I’ll give it a go. Thanks


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## sparkyweasel (23 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Ive left it on too long before and all my fish were half dead. I’m scared to do that again.


You're right to be cautious. It's best to make any changes to your CO2 in small increments, and only on a day when you will be able to check on your fish every few minutes thoughout the day.

What is your water change routine? Sorry if you've already mentioned it and I missed it.


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## john dory (23 Oct 2020)

It looks like your plants have a coating of dust on them.
Do you have a soil type substrate behind the rocks?


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## Adam Dunkley (25 Oct 2020)

I have tropica soil under the sand?
I use to change 30% a week but lately I have been doing 50% which admittedly has been better.
I’ve just cut back all dead leafs and leafs which are covered in algae. Done a 50% water change and siphoned the filter casing out which was black water lol.


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## john dory (26 Oct 2020)

Was wondering what the debris on your plants was.


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## dcurzon (26 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Problem with removing the poly pad is what sponge media do I use in replacement? As my poly pads look like this in 2 days. And it looks like it’s throwing debris out where it’s suppose to go in. How do I upload a video?


Haven't read the thread save the last few replies... however this looks like a standard Juwel in tank filter.  And thats the top 'cage' of pads.  If so, then change the order, as your coarse sponges will be doing nothing and that poly pad will be doing everything.

the top cageof pads is mechanical filtration, and filters from top downwards.
Coarsest sponge on top
working down
polypad on the bottom

the bottom cage is for biological filtration.


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## Adam Dunkley (26 Oct 2020)

Makes sense. What I’ve done is added a coarse sponge. Moved the poly pad so it now goes...
coarse
Carbon
Poly
Coarse

fine 
Fine 
Cirax 
Fine


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## dcurzon (26 Oct 2020)

Adam Dunkley said:


> Makes sense. What I’ve done is added a coarse sponge. Moved the poly pad so it now goes...
> coarse
> Carbon
> Poly
> ...


Coarse
Fine 
Poly
Carbon

Bottom section is all bio, so no point in having fine in there... Coarse and citrax and any other bio media.


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## Adam Dunkley (9 Nov 2020)

Hi everyone

quick update after a few weeks.
Media goes
Coarse
Carbon
Coarse
Fine
Poly
Then second basket
Fine
Fine
Cirax 
(Soon to change the whole bottom media basket to all cirax) 

Planted up more, and dosing TNC complete

Algae is disappearing rapidly, plants are green. Thanks to everyone for help, opinions and advice 👍


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