# Is anyone crying yet?



## LondonDragon (17 May 2017)

Have you been infected with the ramsonware that is going around? Wannacry/Wannacrypto?

To ensure you don't get infected, make sure your windows device is up-to-date with all its patches, very crucial, affects all versions of Windows.

Also install an AV package, I recommend 360 Total Security which is Free, https://www.360totalsecurity.com/en/

If you run a business or you are an IT guy, you might want to check if you have any vulnereable machines on your network, use this this guide:

https://blog.michaelfmcnamara.com/2...vulnerable-to-wannacrypt-wannacry-ransomware/

Good luck


----------



## Tim Harrison (17 May 2017)

I've got a Mac

P.S. They're not affected as well are they?


----------



## zozo (17 May 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> I've got a Mac



These days are long passed.. You're only a bit lucky that Windows is market leader, aint much of a ransom to get from the much smaller mac community.
That was the main reason why Aplle always thought it couldn't be breached or wasn't vurnerable to viruses. But it was more like the hackers didn't have the intrest to put much energy in it.. But already some years ago saw a video of a Las Vegas, Black hat / White hat convention where two 13 year old wizz kids publicly on stage hacked a Mac in 10 seconds installing several backdoors. 

Bottom line never trust any network device regardless the OS, they all are potential leaking sieves. Always store sensitive valuable data on a external USB drive and not on the network or computers hard drive.. Only plug it in when you need to. 

AV programs are like the Police, always running after the facts.. First came the crime or virus or back door program, after that the law and need for a program against it. So they are in fact always a step behind, you firstly need to discover the leak before you can patch it.

Thus even with an AV program you may consider yourself the lucky one if not beeing the first infected victim to discover there is some new nasty roaming the net the AV can't yet catch.

But still it realy aint something to worry much about.. I haven't had a vuris nor any spam in over 10 years. You just need to learn what sites to stay away from and what not to do to prevent it.

Few simple things what not to do.
Free Porn  Aimed towards the instinctively driven dirty old man clicking everything that moves.
Free Games  Aimed towards instinctively driven children impatiently clicking 10 times because it doesn't run fast enough.
Free E-cards  e.g. Valentines day.. *Honey I love you*  and they will  you, thanks for the e-mail adresses.  If not installing a back door..
Opening attachments from unknown sources.

Take several e-mail addresses, 1 for personal use e.g. bussines family, freinds. 1 for forums and other internet fun stuff. I use the e-mail adress i got from my provider exclusively for personal contacts. Free Gmail account for forums and Free Microsoft live account for websites i yet do not trust asking for an adress. The only account i recieve spam is the M$ live account and i do not care there aint nothing important on it anyway. 

I worked in the IT for several years and privatly fixing a lot of infected computers for friends and family..  I know where to look to see where they got it from. Sneaking through the history and temporary internet files.. In most cases it were the kids surfing free games like crazy and in more cases than i thought it was dady himself hunting hooters in spare time..


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

I've been running ubuntu Linux for work for the last 10 years so I should be fairly safe. Not saying it's any safer or that there's safety through obscurity because Linux is now making up quite a large proportion of pc's these days. 
I mostly download all my software directly from the Ubuntu safe servers and rarely install ppa's unless I fancy trying a new update before it makes its way into the Ubuntu repository. I also don't have java or flash installed which are two of the worst offenders. 
I also use a BlackBerry phone because of its monthly security updates and inability to be rooted or hacked. Obviously it's running Android so Google is already collecting your data but hey sometimes you need to take the tin foil hat off now and again. 
I often wonder why hospitals and schools haven't moved over to Linux which is more stable, consumes less resources and is totally free saving on ms licence fees. I often see stuff on TV which is current in places like nasa and in the background there a pc with xp clearly running on it!
What did they expect was going to happen, in the UK right now there's no money for actual medical procedures never mind upgrading i.t infrastructure, what did they think was going to happen using an os that's been end of life with no security updates for three years. Save a penny spend a pound seems to be the philosophy. 
I have one w10 tablet / laptop combo which I don't even have AV running on, I guess I've been lucky but thanks for the heads up on the AV software LD I think I'll install it tonight to be belt and braces.
All zozo's tips are good practice and ones I adhere to. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Zeus. (17 May 2017)

Windows 10  and using Windows defender (free with OS) on all PCs and no issues


----------



## ian_m (17 May 2017)

Ta, thanks for the link.

All fine here a mixture of Win7 and Win 10  machines and servers.

All our XP machines and a Windows 98 machine and a server 2003 machine are on a non internet connected network segment and all but one have been patched (obviously not 98).

Interestingly the embedded versions of XP and Windows 7 appear to be immune out of the box (actually straight out of the development system), probably as they are still on full MS support.



AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I often wonder why hospitals and schools haven't moved over to Linux which is more stable, consumes less resources and is totally free saving on ms licence fees


Because it will cost way way more money that the NHS hasn't got. You forget that the licence is only a small amount of the cost of a PC, user training and IT maintenance cost far exceeds any cheapness of OS. Most people are familiar with Windows so a huge amount is saved on training straight away.


----------



## zozo (17 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I often wonder why hospitals and schools haven't moved over to Linux which is more stable



Funny you mention it.  I worked over 6 years for a local High School and the last 2 years at their brand new Health Care auxiliary branche in coop with the local hospital. I builded the network from scratch and administered it for 16 months there after.

The way i see it, again comes Windows as market leader around the corner. The majority of end user works at home with windows.. Which actualy is an awfull operating system to keep running stable since Windows  XP. And this was developed to be as customizable as possible with several shortcuts, menus etc. numerous ways to get to the same goal. It doesn't mater how ignorant you are if you can't work with Windows you must be realy retarded. 
They developed it for a generation of people educated with pen and paper, not used to work with a computer. Mac for example is actualy more simplistic with less paths to follow, thus more stable, but actualy to simplistic, it kinda says you do it my way or the highway. If you don't get it, you are stuck. For working with MAC you need a brain affiliated with how computers work. In Windows you don't need that you can just keep fiddling around and always get where you need to be in your own discovered path. So Windows kinda managed it to create customizable OS which even the most computer ignorant people still can work with. 

This knowledge is what people take to work from home.. Imagine the cost and time to school employees to learn a complete new system. Especialy the generation employees which are educated with pen and paper barely managed to work with XP and already going bonkers over Windows suddenly need to learn a second OS to work with from 9 to 5. The transition from windows XP to Windows 7 already created a wave of panic and chaos among the employees.

It will take a few more genrations before all oldtimers are in pension and we only have people working which are raised with a tablet pc in the cradle. Which developed an IT brain able to work with whatever OS you feed them.


----------



## swackett (17 May 2017)

However by then the OS in the cradle people will be out of date and the way people work will have changed so much that they are now the people that are struggling to change.   It will always be the case, my parents struggled with VHS recorders, I grew up with them and it was easy to work with PVR's, DVD, Blu-ray, however guess what now they are quickly becoming redundant as it now all about streaming, soon that will change and some other way will come along that has yet to be thought of.   Never ending circle or fun 

As far as AV goes, have read of this article about the top 10 free AV software products available right now.
http://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-free-antivirus


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

ian_m said:


> Ta, thanks for the link.
> 
> All fine here a mixture of Win7 and Win 10  machines and servers.
> 
> ...


From what I can make out Linux costs 10% less than windows  to begin with but the running costs for i.t professionals are higher because you have less choice of pros trained in Linux so they tend to charge more. Obviously if there was more Linux pros they would have to be more competitive to get the work. As for servers Linux servers in the long run are said to be cheaper so a lot of it comes down to the training costs.
I had doubts about whether or not I should start my daughter at about 6/7 yo on Ubuntu in case it confused her at school using Windows but she took to it no bother. In fact she had a bit more understanding of how a computer works by doing Linux first. As it happens the school she went to were using Mac. So if we're looking for uniform standards it sort of falls apart their. One secondary school local to me is a windows centre the other is Mac. We all know why they do that, because if they get in early enough with kids the chances are that kid will continue buying that product in adult life, that's why they give discounted pay monthly ipads out at my daughters school, it's a long term investment by ms and apple.

As it happens Linux can be skinned over to make it look like windows or Mac for the person at home if that's what they feel comfortable with, me personally, when I got to know my way round ubuntu os it felt more intuitive than the other two anyway and I don't see it being any more complicated than say getting a new phone, after a couple of weeks you pretty much know where most things are and get an few things you didn't even realise were there as you go on.

In the work place and school I would think it was the perfect os and a good standard for kids, let them pick which is they want for personal use but training them all to the same standard on the same free os would on face value appear beneficial. There must be many teachers who have never used a mac before but have to use one for work. 

Coming back to the costs, I can't really see what training would be needed other than a days familiarisation. It's not like it's a million miles away really, you want your browser, email , office suite all the things work places use on a day to day basis there it is in your desktop just like any other, what's complicated about that?

You want to update, hit the update button. All software whether for os or other software all get downloaded from the same secure servers which have already been vetted so people aren't getting theirs from whatever Web site they happen to come across. If people want to install apps from any other place other than the Linux repositories they would first have to get root privileges which I'm guessing most people at work wouldn't want or try to do. It also doesn't give a normal user access to systems files easily preventing people who think they know what they are doing trying their hand and ballsing things up. Perfect in the work place IMO.

Ironically if hospitals did run on Linux the chances are this whole thing wouldn't have happened because the cheap infection would have installed, add to that each long term support of Linux tends to be supported far longer than windows. Ubuntu 14.04 I use has been supported for 7years whereas we've had what, 3 versions of Windows in the last couple of years. I don't know how much the whole infection is going to cost but I reckon it will be a pretty penny. So in the long term costs would have been waaayyyy cheaper on a Linux based setup I reckon. 
Just my opinion, we've all got one  BTW is windows defender good enough standalone or would you advise a second AV?

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## swackett (17 May 2017)

I've always used a second AV on windows just for piece of mind (although back in the day Windows own AV was just an afterthought) , the link I posted lists free ones, so why not install one?


----------



## dw1305 (17 May 2017)

Hi all, 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I've been running ubuntu Linux for work for the last 10 years so I should be fairly safe


I think open-source software is definitely the way forward. 





ian_m said:


> Because it will cost way way more money that the NHS hasn't got. You forget that the licence is only a small amount of the cost of a PC, user training and IT maintenance cost far exceeds any cheapness of OS. Most people are familiar with Windows so a huge amount is saved on training straight away.


I think some of the issues are with MRI scanners etc, where the Windows XP software is embedded with the scanner.

We now try and avoid buying any analytical equipment which has an integrated computer interface or only produces non-ASCII file types, because otherwise you end up with kit that still works, but software that doesn't. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

swackett said:


> I've always used a second AV on windows just for piece of mind (although back in the day Windows own AV was just an afterthought) , the link I posted lists free ones, so why not install one?


 
Probably going to wish I never said this but most AV software is resource hungry, gives false warnings and in most cases the horse has already bolted. For my own personal laptop I just follow the tips off Zozo. Never surf porn on it, don't download any software other than in the windows app store or verified web sites and I never open any emails or attachments that look suss. The whole time I've had computer the only time I've ever had an issue was once when Tom Barr's facebook account was hacked and I opened a message that was from him so thought was safe. I probably will try one of the AV's but I'll look for the most light weight.


----------



## ian_m (17 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Just my opinion, we've all got one  BTW is windows defender good enough standalone or would you advise a second AV?


I use Windows defender on all my home PC's including my home server. Works fine and has stopped quite a few email born attachments getting in (and out) of Outlook.

At work a different matter. The IT people who manage(d) our PC's use Bitdefender but us developers (software and OS building) use ESET as we have had right fun and games with Bitdefender.

Three biggest issues I encountered with Bitdefender were:
- As a user (in managed environment) you had no control over exclusions, temporary control etc. So often our final compiled .exe file was silently being quarantined, giving the appearance the compile had failed.
- When building Windows OS images, basically a multi GB file copy exercise Bitdefender was silently dropping files, so the Windows installation would fail with "files missing".
- BitDefener was often preventing virtual machines starting as it locked the virtual disks whilst is scanned them.

No issues with ESET (and it is managed as well).



AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Ironically if hospitals did run on Linux the chances are this whole thing wouldn't have happened because the cheap infection would have installed, add to that each long term support of Linux tends to be supported far longer than windows.


Doubly ironically, no it wouldn't have helped. A similar type of bug is present in old Linux's (V2 & 3 ?) that had to support connections to XP and NT4 machines, and is present in early NAS boxes. Our discontinued non supported QNAP NAS box is susceptible. But in the real world commercial Linux is supported for far shorter than Windows, you are on your own. I think the bug only causes a denial of service, but I suspect could be engineered to take control.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/15/qnap_malware/


----------



## zozo (17 May 2017)

In my country Schools and Hospitals or any other public institution is highly subsidesed with tax payers money. Hence they all bare the name Subsidy milking institutions. They get a yearly budget calculated with the expenses they made the previous year. And i've seen it personaly, them creating unnecessary expenses to get at least as much as they did the year before. Money devouring subsidy machines..

Few years ago they did a national survey on the quality of regional education centres, 53 of them.. The one i worked for ended up beeing number 51.. One of the last with the worst quality.. But they still managed to have a € 17.000.000 bank account.

Funny huh? Beeing publicly funded to put the money in the education of our children and than manage to have such numbers on your bank account?
Tax payers money which is not spend on what it's meant for.. They promised improvements and used the money to build a new campus.

All shiny new and bright from the outside, but inside it's still rotten and actualy led by criminals. Still milking subsidies.  

They don't care much for savings, they care more for spending.. And then it seems, at least that's what our politicians say, the Netherlands has one of the best educative institutions in the world? I realy wonder?


----------



## ian_m (17 May 2017)

You guys also forget the "big boy" software IT use to manage Windows PC's, namely SCCM (System Centre Configuration Manager). It make managing 100's if not 1000's of Windows PC's easy. Not cheap but does the job.

Need to see why a user is having issue, right click in SCCM console, Start , Remote Control and I can see their screen and actions and see what is the issue. Creepy, can be installed to silently monitor....





User complains they haven't got Office installed, select software -> Software library and right click and deploy to their machine.


 

Similarly, a machine hard disk dies, replace hard disk, go  to Operating Systems, select from available network address and select deploy. Bang job done.

Want to apply updates, do similar to updates.

Also has clever monitoring. Someone swaps a monitor over, we know about it. Someone nicks 1/2 the RAM, we know about it. Someone install software, we know about it.

Interesting SCCM supports, iOs phones, Android and even some versions of Linux, Debian, Ubuntu and quite a few others.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

zozo said:


> at least that's what our politicians say



Zozo, you should know by now it's not the politicians who are liars, it's the police, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, the A&E staff, the people going to food banks, liars the lot of them. I see them on the news most nights lying through their teeth about how there's people dieing because their operation was cancelled, patients being kept on beds in corridors, lack of drugs available, no police on the street, kids being asked to bring their own toilet rolls to school because the school can't afford them yadda, yadda, yadda. The only person I trust is the Tory politician at the end on news night who says it's all poppy cock, statistics show that things have actually improved immensely since they were in power. Who would you rather trust? All these commoner liars or someone who is a multi millionaire who keeps their money off shore while claiming expenses from the tax payer for their second home which they rent out to a family member while having a second job as a director of a company which gets awarded lucrative government contracts even though they have ballsed up running these firms time and time again. C'mon man I think you are being a bit naive listening to all these liars 



ian_m said:


> I use Windows defender on all my home PC's including my home server. Works fine and has stopped quite a few email born attachments getting in (and out) of Outlook.



I think defender comes built in to W10, I'll check tonight and just keep that if it is. I stand corrected on support, just been looking at Ubuntu release page, looks like most LTS are supported for about 5 years. Having said that changing to the newest version is just a simple case of downloading the update and if set up correctly with the OS split on the partition and your home folder on another you don't even have to back your stuff up just update the OS and away you go for another 5 years. I find the changes to OS are minimal though whereas in Windows it's a total revamp of everything to keep the punters happy.

I respect what you're saying mate, I just think that in the work place a computer where the only thing allowed on it has came from one place and is vetted by the OS developer themselves is a far more secure platform. Takes the idiot out the equation and anybody that works around the security feature and forces a third party application to work by gaining root privileges and installing themselves is as big a criminal as the bed wetter who made the malware code in the first place. It would take effort and know how to do that so they can't deny they didn't realise the risk.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

I like the phone call you get from windows technical who tell you that there are errors showing up on the network coming from your pc then try and get you to install remote desktop software so they can take over your pc. I get a lot at work so I tend to put the phone on speaker and get on with my job while pissing them about for as long as possible. My own personal best is 47 mins, I even managed to get them to ring me back the next day when I asked to speak to a supervisor because I didn't think they were competent to sort out my problem


----------



## swackett (17 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Probably going to wish I never said this but most AV software is resource hungry, gives false warnings and in most cases the horse has already bolted. For my own personal laptop I just follow the tips off Zozo. Never surf porn on it, don't download any software other than in the windows app store or verified web sites and I never open any emails or attachments that look suss. The whole time I've had computer the only time I've ever had an issue was once when Tom Barr's facebook account was hacked and I opened a message that was from him so thought was safe. I probably will try one of the AV's but I'll look for the most light weight.



Never really found an issue them being resource hogs, the only one I would say was very bad was Norton, I've been using AVG for last x years and that's pretty good, but you can't only rely on them as Zoro has said.


----------



## swackett (17 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I think defender comes built in to W10, I'll check tonight and just keep that if it is.



Have a look at this site that tests AV software https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-windows/windows-10/  Windows Defender is okay but not the best, in fact its at the bottom of the list, I'd go with one of the better free ones such as Avast


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

ian_m said:


> System Centre Configuration Manager



Sounds like a god send for IT people Ian, all that without leaving your seat. Sorry to bang on about Ubuntu again  But one of the features I enjoy which is similar to the above is other than not having to back all your stuff up before a new OS install (unless you want to and should) is when you're signed into the Ubuntu software centre all the software you use is synced across all devices. For instance if set up right regarding partitioning with os on one and your files on another, if you want a new os you just download new OS, install and update then sign in to USS and all your software is back. I can go from a blank hard drive to exactly same computer I had before in a about 1hr.

Because open source uses generic drivers I once had a pc pack up on me but I kept the hard drive for about a year. On my new PC I though it would be a good idea to use this old hard drive as a back up to keep my dropbox folder on so plugged it into the pc, forget to set it as slave and when it booted up I booted into the old computer and everything was running! Where else could you plug a hard drive into a totally different pc and it just works like before.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

Just now.......should I open it, what you think????  Maybe not eh.


----------



## LondonDragon (17 May 2017)

ian_m said:


> Interestingly the embedded versions of XP and Windows 7 appear to be immune out of the box


I found that not to be the case  already spotted 1 XP and 2 Win 7 embedded with the vulnerability 

We only had to scan 6k machines!


----------



## zozo (17 May 2017)

When it comes to AV programs, regarding antivirus database they all are excactly the same.. This comes with an international agreement, nobody is allowed to withhold antivirus data to create a monopoly.. This would severely impact the safety of the World Wide Web. So all antivirus data is open source and all AV programs are about updated in about the same time periode with the same data. Not to protect you, but to protect the WWW and keep it accesible.

So actualy for a home user a free AV program is sufficient enough.. Paying is a waste of money.. 

Commercial AV programs only differ in all the locations where they scan and all the addons they carry. Like scanning incomming and outgoing e-mails, scanning storage locations and databases, name it, if something changes they scan it.. This is what makes them resource hogs, the constant permanent realtime guarding of all that happens. Commercialy for a company, where most computers in general don't do much more than create administrative plain text files etc. These computers do not realy need much recources to do the work they are meant to do. So use the excess resouces for safety is the best thing to do to protect the companies sensitive data. 

But for a home user, having a commercial AV program scanning the crap out of your files, while you are playing with photoshop, listening music, downloading a movie and chatting with your girl at the same time. Than you end up with a lagging slow computer if about all the RAM is already in the AV. Just need to decide for yourself if it is necessary to permantly real time guard all your documents? Why? You know what and when you put in, if you didn't it's the same as yesterday..  Why would you check outgoing mail? You know what you send.. Even incomming mail, why? Safe and scan and attachment before opening it if you don't trust it.

On a windows PC defender gaurding your system files is indeed suficient enough and it has the same database as all others and it is regularly updated with the M$ autoupdate. The other free programs like Avast or AVG, they only claim to be better because these also scan realtime at places which do not need to be scanned all that time. Is this realy better? They also can hog your system if you do not have enough ram or cpu power.  And then it's not..


----------



## ian_m (17 May 2017)

LondonDragon said:


> I found that not to be the case  already spotted 1 XP and 2 Win 7 embedded with the vulnerability
> 
> We only had to scan 6k machines!


Ours have "file and print sharing" off so no port 445 and no smbv1. Most Win 7 images I build I unbind smbv1 as not really needed.


----------



## swackett (17 May 2017)

zozo said:


> On a windows PC defender gaurding your system files is indeed suficient enough and it has the same database as all others and it is regularly updated with the M$ autoupdate. The other free programs like Avast or AVG, they only claim to be better because these also scan realtime at places which do not need to be scanned all that time. Is this realy better? They also can hog your system if you do not have enough ram or cpu power.  And then it's not..



Not sure thats 100% correct. Reading various tech sites regarding testing av software on computers deliberately infected shows that some find the viruses where as others do not.  They may all have access to the same global dB but they all must copy from this global dB to there own specific db. Windows defender's database seems to be updated less frequently that others companies judging by the test results and various articles out there.


----------



## LondonDragon (17 May 2017)

swackett said:


> Windows defender's database seems to be updated less frequently that others companies judging by the test results and various articles out there.


that one is better than nothing, but almost nothing  I have good experience with 360 total security because when an application installs and wants to make registry changes you have to approve it, or it wont install. Also it checks for Windows updates but also for other vulnerable software like java, etc....  Understands when  you visit banking or shopping sites and places the browser into a container where plugins and such can't interfere with the session!


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

Do these features come with the free version LD or only if you pay?


----------



## Tim Harrison (17 May 2017)

Would you recommend Mac users install an AV as well?


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 May 2017)

From my understanding it's probably best if everyone has some form of AV running. Although not at risk from the same malware you could send some to someone it will infect.


----------



## LondonDragon (17 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Do these features come with the free version LD or only if you pay?


Comes with the free version. Has a bunch of great tools to clean you your machine and keep it always running and booting smoothly.



Tim Harrison said:


> Would you recommend Mac users install an AV as well?


More than ever, there is also viruses and malware written for MacOS.


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

swackett said:


> Not sure thats 100% correct. Reading various tech sites regarding testing av software on computers deliberately infected shows that some find the viruses where as others do not.  They may all have access to the same global dB but they all must copy from this global dB to there own specific db. Windows defender's database seems to be updated less frequently that others companies judging by the test results and various articles out there.



I also did read a lot of these articles and magazines and I rather believe all the IT or Computer (beauty) magazines out there are commercialy involved into marketing to trophy and award a new candidate each year. It's advertizing..  And all of them scanners have passed the review one time or another tagged as very good or even the best or what so ever. So they drive you completely crazy and if you follow their lead you buy a new one each time they tag another one as better.. This year it's Mcafee and next year its Sophos and the year after that it's Bullgaurd and keep 'm comming. Lets throw in Hitman Pro, a package with several malware scaner combined running them all at the same time,  just to be sure to find something.

But final conclusion is, that catching malware is your own doing in not paying attention and surfing "free this - free that" sites you shouldn't surf or opening attachments you shouldn't open. And yes a lot of programs used for internet purpose have vurnabilities and potential backdoors which can be exploited, but than still you first need to visit a malisious website uploading the crap to your pc.

Personaly i'm with Microsoft Security Essentials for the last 8 years and haven't had a virus on my pc in over 10 years.. It's my surfing habbit and knowing where not to go and what not to do to prevent getting any. So it might well be that one scanner doesn't pick up what the other newer version does.. As said they are like the police running after the facts all are constantly scrutinized by the criminals too to find a gap to sneak through. Fistly the virus evolves, the scanner can only follow, hopefully on time.

You should go with the AV software you find yourself most comfortable with.. But still if it finds malware or viruses on your pc, you rather should review your own dowings or that of the others using the pc.


----------



## swackett (18 May 2017)

zozo said:


> I also did read a lot of these articles and magazines and I rather believe all the IT or Computer (beauty) magazines out there are commercialy involved into marketing to trophy and award a new candidate each year. It's advertizing..  And all of them scanners have passed the review one time or another tagged as very good or even the best or what so ever. So they drive you completely crazy and if you follow their lead you buy a new one each time they tag another one as better.. This year it's Mcafee and next year its Sophos and the year after that it's Bullgaurd and keep 'm comming. Lets throw in Hitman Pro, a package with several malware scaner combined running them all at the same time,  just to be sure to find something.
> 
> But final conclusion is, that catching malware is your own doing in not paying attention and surfing "free this - free that" sites you shouldn't surf or opening attachments you shouldn't open. And yes a lot of programs used for internet purpose have vurnabilities and potential backdoors which can be exploited, but than still you first need to visit a malisious website uploading the crap to your pc.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree, no amount of software can deal with the weakest chain in the link, the human  

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## LondonDragon (18 May 2017)

swackett said:


> weakest chain in the link, the human


Yeah that clicks on every link in their emails and say yes to every popup lol


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

The majority of people also never read what a free program asks during the instalation process. I've seen so many people with a hijacked browser.
Just because they are not reading and clicking yes, yes, yes, yes and yes to get the darn chat program installed.. And then all starts lagging, with 4 different toolbars, 3 search engines and buttons where 2 of them contain a malicious code which can be exploited. And before you know after installing some other free gadgets the domino effect makes the house of cards fall into a bsod.. And all this while Norton is bussy scanning all incomming and outgoing emails flagging everything as spam and keeps nagging about a malicious code in the recyclebin.

For those wo still do not see it and still are scanning outgoing e-mails.. Which for a home user is a completely bogus hogging useless software feature.
Supose it finds something in the e-mail your sending, what does this say? It says if you didn't write and attached the code yourself, the scanner didn't do it's job in the first place, because it didnt report anything getting in. So than why should it find this while going out? And that's what you are paying for?


----------



## swackett (18 May 2017)

zozo said:


> The majority of people also never read what a free program asks during the instalation process. I've seen so many people with a hijacked browser.
> Just because they are not reading and clicking yes, yes, yes, yes and yes to get the darn chat program installed.. And then all starts lagging, with 4 different toolbars, 3 search engines and buttons where 2 of them contain a malicious code which can be exploited.



Lol, yes my mother in law is a perfect example of this, then a call comes into the "son in law helpdesk".....   

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

The best way to look at ALL software whether it be for your phone or your PC is that there's no such thing as a free lunch. 
Software Devs spend a fair bit of time and money on developing software and putting it out there. They aren't charity workers so they need a return on investment, they get this by firstly you buy the software and you pay for their time, they insert advertising into the software which tracks your browsing habits so they can better target advertising for you or they want you to install a third party browser extension or search engine so they can then sell on that information to third parties. 
In the case of open source software where it is generally wrote by coders in their spare time you usually find its a donation situation if you want, the only down side is you don't get much if any support so forums are set up to sort issues out amongst the users which the Devs will fix as and when they can.
In the case of Linux the software is tested by the Devs and then tested by the OS developers and once verified safe it is allowed in the Ubuntu repository and included in your uodates, this takes time and in the meantime they dev may have brought out numerous new versions which you can force install but the best practice is always get your software from the repository and you're safe as houses. Hence why I would suggest it is a good, Stable platform for use in the work place.

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

I installed 360 last night on my w10 laptop although I was thinking do I need to go down this route. Firstly I had a w10 update that wouldn't install, rebooted three times and still wouldn't just got stuck at 45% for an eternity then got to 100, restarted and it said failed to install. Went to install the AV, as usual tried to get me to install a load of 3rd party stuff which I immediately cancelled, installed it and set off running full test while being nagged my built in AV had been knocked off then the full scan got stuck at 99% for 2 Hours. I spent 4 hours in total and achieved diddly squat eventually just knocking it off and going to bed.
That's exactly why me and windows parted company some years ago and you know what, I knew it was coming before I started because it always does. 
Too much going on and too many things conflicting with each other. If I was at work I would have been calling the I.T people and wasting half my day. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## swackett (18 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I installed 360 last night on my w10 laptop although I was thinking do I need to go down this route. Firstly I had a w10 update that wouldn't install, rebooted three times and still wouldn't just got stuck at 45% for an eternity then got to 100, restarted and it said failed to install. Went to install the AV, as usual tried to get me to install a load of 3rd party stuff which I immediately cancelled, installed it and set off running full test while being nagged my built in AV had been knocked off then the full scan got stuck at 99% for 2 Hours. I spent 4 hours in total and achieved diddly squat eventually just knocking it off and going to bed.
> That's exactly why me and windows parted company some years ago and you know what, I knew it was coming before I started because it always does.
> Too much going on and too many things conflicting with each other. If I was at work I would have been calling the I.T people and wasting half my day.
> 
> Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk



I must be one of the lucky ones as I have not had those sort of issues with w10, so far found it to be pretty good.  It started off a bit iffy with smb comms with my nas drive (just could not browse to it using mapped drives) but that has been fixed now.   With AVG the only thing it tries to get you to install upon er, install, is a free trial of the paid for version and I think it asks about adding itself to the browser, that's it.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

As an operating system I don't actually mind w10, for me though the updates are a PITA, probably because I don't use it that much. I tend to update things before I use them so I find there are a few updates which are incremental so I have to download one and install it to get the next one, I can spend hours updating. I'm sure things will improve as the OS matures, no mean feat for MS bringing one OS that will run on phones, tablets and pc's. So many variables involved in making a one size-fits-all solution compatible with all hardware. I have a laptop tablet combo and I find some things I can't carry out when running in tablet mode, I need to put the keyboard back on and run in pc mode. Simple browsing and checking email etc is fine as a tablet but if you need to get any real work done its a PC for me.


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> Would you recommend Mac users install an AV as well?


It also kinda depends on what you do with your PC.. Vurnabilities lay generaly in addons which are constantly online e.g. chat programs, skype is on of those which is always under fire. Visiting malicious websites and opening attachments cq. links and other internet content from unknown sources.. Wel even sometimes the sender might be known but still the source of the content isn't and comming from a spam bot.

For someone who is very causious in what they do and where they go and where they share their e-mail addresses it probably wont run such a fast pace.. A friend of mine has a Mac as long as i remeber and never had an AV installed and never had a problem..

The same actualy goes for Windows as well.. I've tried it long enough, just for fun, installing a virtual machine and surf the net unprotected on trusted sites only and never caught anything nasty.. And install another one and surf the nasty ones to see wht they come up with.

What i used a lot in the past and still do sometimes when i get Paranoia Paula  and think there is something going on.
https://www.trendmicro.com/en_us/forHome/products/housecall.html

And they are realy very good and already around for decades, i use it mainly on PC's which are not mine and think the localy installed av got corrupted. And or periodicaly check my own PC's if i feel like it just for the sake of mind.

Always up to date, fast and safe and no strings attached..

But installing a free AV for a bit real time protection is a beter safe than sorry that never hurts.


----------



## Tim Harrison (18 May 2017)

Thanks Marcel, Paulo and AWB. Got my son to install one a few moments ago, just for peace of mind more than anything else...I'm a bit of a Luddite I'm afraid


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

Haha don't worry about it Tim, the people who got caught out with this are supposedly pros, it happens. In all fairness in their defence they had financial constraints. They could only do so much if no one is willing to pay.
It's always been a game of cat and mouse with these people, hackers look for a vulnerability and exploit it, software developers find a fix and distribute it and so on and so forth, it will never end. Far too much of our personal life is kept online these days and there's big money to be made by accessing it. A lot of the top hackers if they don't go to jail end up working for security firms testing their code.
Unfortunately if we want to use modern gadgets we pay the price of privacy. Depends how much you want to give away.
There are various sites that will pay you for surveys, giving you vouchers for Amazon etc which I think is a fairer way of gathering data. You enter in full well knowing what's happening and you reap the rewards. Or, you buy an android phone, Google tell you they are going to take your data but nobody reads it and they get their money by using that data for advertising things they think you will buy. As does Facebook etc.
There are options to stop apps accessing your contacts or files or GPS position but if the app is free you tend to find it won't work without you allowing it. I also read lately that some apps are teaming up for instance if you deny access to contacts on one app and file access to another they will correlate the info from both apps. Makes you wonder why Facebook which adding your mobile number was optional bought whatsapp where you need to use your mobile number to work. You share something on Facebook with friends and now they have all your friends numbers as well.
It's no coincidence that when you put your phone number in for an insurance quote that the following days you get badgered by loads of nuisance phone calls.
I bought a car last week from a garage and at the end the salesman said because they were regulated they had to ask some questions, asking me if I had roadside cover and what would I do if I had to do without a car. Do me a favour, you know that info is going straight to third parties. Information is big business, there's a saying that when you buy a mobile phone you are not buying a product, you are the product.
Every time you leave the house they know where you went, which shops you went in, who you were with, what you spent, what you bought, who you were talking to, what you were saying,what you looked for on the Internet as well as countless images and cctv footage of you doing it. The big difference is you agreed to it all in the disclaimer you didn't read when you installed the app.
Sorry, had my tin foil hat on again, I'm going back to my cave, it's safe there. Time to get off the grid. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison (18 May 2017)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Sorry, had my tin foil hat on again, I'm going back to my cave, it's safe there. Time to get off the grid.


Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars...


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

The future is scary in a more connected world, don't know if that's for the better or worse. At least no one has to die, one man  can bring your country to its knees from the comfort of their arm chair and copious amounts of black coffee. Now that everything is getting connected with the Internet of things the whole thing could be started by someone hacking your fridge and using it as the host hahaha 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

My condolences for the one assigned to follow me all day.. He/she must have the most boring job on the planet.  Also for the hacker in my PC, he must be rather anoyed with himself doing all the effort to get in there and than only find useless bull and me babbling all day long about aquariums and stuff. So he want be for long.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

Same for me mate, however when they see you babbling about planted aquariums I'll guarantee you next time you look on your browser or Facebook page there will be an advert for something related to aquarium, in my case it's usually co2 art. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

That is what the cooky is for if i remember correctly.. A few years ago a tracking cooky used to be something nasty, now it is silenced and commonly accepted and not even scanned for anylonger.

But it indeed can be imbaracing sometimes, googling sexy underware and an hour later watching youtube with my granny and seeing a sexy underware banner rolling along.


----------



## Tim Harrison (18 May 2017)

Haha, and for me too

Edit...that is, the babbling on about aquascaping thing...
...definitely not watching sexy underwear banners with granny


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

zozo said:


> That is what the cooky is for if i remember correctly.. A few years ago a tracking cooky used to be something nasty, now it is silenced and commonly accepted and not even scanned for anylonger.
> 
> But it indeed can be imbaracing sometimes, googling sexy underware and an hour later watching youtube with my granny and seeing a sexy underware banner rolling along.


I think that's why every site now has to warn you it will be taking cookies. I often miss out the in between words when searching the Internet like "Plants for planted tanks" I would miss out the for. Waste of typing, it knows what I mean. This led to an embarrassing situation when I was with with my 7yo daughter trying to find out if the rabbit we got was a boy or girl. You can imagine what came up when I searched for "sex rabbit" even sex toy under the sun. Bought myself a butt plug as an impulse buy  

I tend to use duck duck go these days. Doesn't bring up as many pages as say google but I get the information I'm looking for rather than what Google is getting paid for me to see but no adverts unless you ask for them and respects your privacy. Obviously the more people that use it the better it will get as it had more data to correlate and has the added feature of checking if the site you're looking for is indeed verified which is handy for online banking etc  

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo (18 May 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha, and for me too
> 
> Edit...that is, the babbling on about aquascaping thing...
> ...definitely not watching sexy underwear banners with granny


Hahaha, me neither, just making a cooky statment.. You need to be carefull what to google for nowadays. Privacy is getting thinner everyday and before you know the dirty laundry hangs at the front door.  In many cases it's a good thing too.. Because still a lot of nasty roams the net because protected with privacy issues. The good suffers in this case with the bad unfortunately.

I remember a quote that said, if goverments only knew up front what impact internet would have on society the day it was launched it would never have been granted. In the way it excists today they realized it was a mistake and its a thorn in their eye.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (18 May 2017)

For sure, I've only just got my head around the govt having access to so much information but third parties a definite no. The problem with having so much information on somebody is the damage caused in the wrong hands. Just look at the news, even before being found guilty of anything they run stories about people having affairs etc and loads of stuff totally unrelated to the case then find out they weren't guilty after totally destroying their lives. I'm assuming the police haven't released any of this info in fear of damaging the case.
My missus had a row with a cyclist once and he decided to film the whole thing with a hat cam which he said he was doing. Now then, my missus doesn't do social media at all, never appears on my Facebook or anything, I think she Snapchats her family but that's about it which I respect.
Now this guy has footage on his computer and can upload that to anything on the Web for whatever reason. That to me is an invasion of privacy in my eyes .Am I going to come across this footage one day on YouTube or someone send it to me. If I had been then I'd have ripped the head cam off and stuffed it up his blahblahblahblah. Now that would have been a big hitter on YouTube. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


----------

