# Nature's Hideout



## DeepMetropolis (5 Dec 2020)

Hi All,

So i'm starting a new journey with our bedroom tank. The dimensions are 80x35x40cm so a bit of shallow front to back depth to play with but okay it will be alright I guess..  The tank is a mess now but i'm keeping it running for the fish for a while..The internall filter is going to be replaced by an external filter.. Bought a new Co2 art reg with BF sales. Only have to figure out if i'm going tu use inline diffuser or a sera reactor I have both lying around.. Not really a fan of co2 mist but the reactor takes away flow.

I think it is going to be a wood only hardscape, have bought very big pieces of wood so that probably fill the tank enough..
Trying a dry start with mosses on the wood I have Fissidens fox, F. polypodioides, F. phillipins, F. adianthoides, Ricardia mixed to gather and  Vesicularia sp. china separate.  Already cut the wood to size and have used a the yoghurt method and I keep it in a container as the tank is not drained as said above.. Keep it in daylight under a window as I have not really a spare light fixture at hand..






Hope that this would work out nice..  I mist twice a day now keep a small opening for ventilation,. Any other tips are welcome..


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## DeepMetropolis (6 Dec 2020)

Okay this morning, now the third day in dry start mold is forming on the wood. It's white and fluffy. What to do about it, leave it for a while untill it disappears or remove it with something.. Maybe just dip it with a paper towel?


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## DeepMetropolis (8 Dec 2020)

I left the mold on hoping it would go away but it still doesn't. I hope that this don't kill the moss. Maybe using yoghurt and wood is not such a good idea.. Did use only one teaspoon of natura Greek yoghurt.
Really no one with experience about this here? 



Greetz, Luciën.


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## Majsa (9 Dec 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> I left the mold on hoping it would go away but it still doesn't. I hope that this don't kill the moss. Maybe using yoghurt and wood is not such a good idea.. Did use only one teaspoon of natura Greek yoghurt.
> Really no one with experience about this here?
> 
> 
> ...



I have no experience with dry start, but have you tried spraying it with hydrogen peroxide?


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## DeepMetropolis (10 Dec 2020)

Nope I didn't. I'm afraid that it would also kill the mosses. 

Greetz, Luciën.


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## Wolf6 (10 Dec 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Nope I didn't. I'm afraid that it would also kill the mosses.
> 
> Greetz, Luciën.


It doesnt like it, but if you do it once, it usually survives. It survived dosing 3x in 2 days here in my tank because some bba started growing on it. BBA is gone, but it did need 3 weeks to recover.


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## DeepMetropolis (10 Dec 2020)

Wolf6 said:


> It doesnt like it, but if you do it once, it usually survives. It survived dosing 3x in 2 days here in my tank because some bba started growing on it. BBA is gone, but it did need 3 weeks to recover.


Yes but dosing in a tank or on dry start moss that did not even started to grow, seems kind off different too me..
I do spot dose bba in tanks sometimes but even then not on moss..

For now it looks like the most of the fluffy mold seems to dissappear with mistig the wood with ro water twice a day.. So I have good hopes.. 

Greetz, Luciën.


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## Wolf6 (10 Dec 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Yes but dosing in a tank or on dry start moss that did not even started to grow, seems kind off different too me..
> I do spot dose bba in tanks sometimes but even then not on moss..
> 
> For now it looks like the most of the fluffy mold seems to dissappear with mistig the wood with ro water twice a day.. So I have good hopes..
> ...


Ah for some reason I assumed you had already flooded. Yeah it wouldnt survive that :/ Good luck with the misting!


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## Majsa (10 Dec 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Yes but dosing in a tank or on dry start moss that did not even started to grow, seems kind off different too me..
> I do spot dose bba in tanks sometimes but even then not on moss..
> 
> For now it looks like the most of the fluffy mold seems to dissappear with mistig the wood with ro water twice a day.. So I have good hopes..
> ...



I didn’t know moss would hate it...

Good that you found a solution


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## DeepMetropolis (28 Dec 2020)

Working on my hardscape. Was a bit of work modifying the big pice to fit the tank.


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## MJF90 (29 Dec 2020)

Hardscape is looking good! Even though the tank is only 35cm deep you managed to create good depth! And how is the moss doing? I did a couple dry starts with moss and yoghurt, but recently did an attempt with moss and crushed soil! This works a lot better in my opinion, no smell & no mold! See the video about how i did it.


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## DeepMetropolis (29 Dec 2020)

Thanks. The moss is attached to the wood even tough it did not grow much. I left it for a month, I hope it will get better by time..


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## CooKieS (30 Dec 2020)

Lovely wood and start


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## DeepMetropolis (31 Dec 2020)

I have planted it will make a photo when it clears up.. 

But I really want to know, now I have the standard eden(oase) in out flow with a spraybar from left to right over the wood and it returns over the bottom the flow looks pretty optimal for the scape.. But I really don't like the look of it, want to install an lilly pipe but I am worried about the flow. The filter is rated 1000l/h tank is +-100l. There is a reactor installed so the flow is cut back a bit.


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## MJF90 (31 Dec 2020)

Instead of using a regular glass lily pipe with a wide mouth, I would suggest using a glass ''jet'' pipe. These will give you a stronger flow.


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## DeepMetropolis (31 Dec 2020)

Yes I am familiair with jet pipes, but this is not what I want. I'm glad with the even flow that the spray ar gives. I have no experience with lilly pipes so that's why I asked..


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## DeepMetropolis (1 Jan 2021)

Happy new year all. Here is a picture of it planted. Just did the daily 90% water change. Still waiting on my lights the post is delayed again, if i get that it will get better light coverage.


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## DeepMetropolis (5 Jan 2021)

So extra light is installed. Changed the in/outflow for a glass pipe and flow seems enough, I see the plants in the far left corner slowly moving.. The woods still releases lots of tannins even with the waterchanges but it will clear one day i'm sure  ..





Here is the star of the show (one of the two) thats why it has so many hideouts, they love the caves..


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


DeepMetropolis said:


> Here is the star of the show (one of the two) thats why it has so many hideouts, they love the caves..


_Krobia xinguensis, _definitely not an everyday fish.

I should have also said that one looks in  tip-top condition.

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (5 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> _Krobia xinguensis, _definitely not an everyday fish.



No indeed, but I think this is one of the most beautiful of the dwarf cichlid. Wander why they aren't do wel known in the hobby.. Maby because they look pale grayish if you see them in store.


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2021)

Hi all, 


DeepMetropolis said:


> look pale grayish if you see them in store


That is a real issue <"with some fish">. 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Wander why they aren't do wel known in the hobby..


I assume they aren't commonly imported to the UK. I've seen the on <"Aquarium Glaser's list"> and a shop like <"Utaka"> would stock them, but I've never seen them for sale in the UK. 

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (5 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I should have also said that one looks in tip-top condition.


Thanks I they get good meals, 5 types of frozen food and premium pellets, everyday an other dish.. 



dw1305 said:


> I assume they aren't commonly imported to the UK. I've seen the on <"Aquarium Glaser's list"> and a shop like <"Utaka"> would stock them, but I've never seen them for sale in the UK.


Yes got them from Utaka, they are a 40min drive from my home so I get most of my fish there and if they don't have it, I also can place orders from ruinemans and they bring it to a local gardening center.


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## dw1305 (5 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


DeepMetropolis said:


> ........ Yes got them from Utaka, they are a 40min drive from my home so I get most of my fish there......


Forty minutes is dangerously close, I'd definitely have to ration my visits.....Just had a look, less than £10 a fish.

cheers Darrel


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## CooKieS (6 Jan 2021)

Beautiful fish! I like the shadows in this scape too!


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## DeepMetropolis (6 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Forty minutes is dangerously close, I'd definitely have to ration my visits.....Just had a look, less than £10 a fish.


Haha, yes they are not expensive indeed, cheaper the most stores in de area.. I have to restrain myself too I simply cannot keep everything I wanted, there are three filled tanks in the house that's the max I can manage.


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## Paulthewitt (7 Jan 2021)

Lovely tank and lovely fish

what/where is this Utaka you speak of??


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## DeepMetropolis (8 Jan 2021)

At some places the hair grass starts to mrlt a bit. Is this normal for hairgrass, or do I have to add something? I do daily waterchanges but no added ferts.. The rest of the tank seems fine little crypt melt but that's normal u see submerged crypt leaves popping up already.


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## Paulthewitt (8 Jan 2021)

Mine also looks like that... I do dose ferts, but don’t daily water change. Mine were from tropica 1-2 grow.

so we are either both killing our hair grass in different ways, or it’s normal when newly planted- I’m hoping the later!


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## DeepMetropolis (9 Jan 2021)

Paulthewitt said:


> Lovely tank and lovely fish
> 
> what/where is this Utaka you speak of??


Thanks, Utaka is in Amersfoort, the Netherlands.


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## SRP3006 (9 Jan 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> At some places the hair grass starts to mrlt a bit. Is this normal for hairgrass, or do I have to add something? I do daily waterchanges but no added ferts.. The rest of the tank seems fine little crypt melt but that's normal u see submerged crypt leaves popping up already.


I've found Hairgrass melts slightly when added, seems to lose its emersed growth but should show some nice green new growth at the same sort of time. I've always added ferts from the beginning so I'm not sure if dosing some ferts would help it, I'd definitely be doing daily water changes though.


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## DeepMetropolis (9 Jan 2021)

Paulthewitt said:


> so we are either both killing our hair grass in different ways, or it’s normal when newly planted- I’m hoping the later!



I hope this will be normal. Fist time using eleocharis.. This was not tropicas but it was invitro.


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## DeepMetropolis (9 Jan 2021)

SRP3006 said:


> I've found Hairgrass melts slightly when added, seems to lose its emersed growth but should show some nice green new growth at the same sort of time. I've always added ferts from the beginning so I'm not sure if dosing some ferts would help it, I'd definitely be doing daily water changes though.


Thanks for the clarification! So it should be quite normal. I just keep my routine up and hopefully it all sorts out..


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## Paulthewitt (9 Jan 2021)

Ah - bit far from the north west of the uk for a visit then!😂


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## glasscanvasart (9 Jan 2021)

I can just echo that this is normal for Eleocharis when it adapts from emerged to submerged growth. It will pass and it did for me even without CO2, though it grows very slowly.


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## DeepMetropolis (22 Jan 2021)

So tank is getting more stable, the melting stopped it thinned out a lot but now I see new growth although it is really a battle against the krobia's they like to pull out the eleocharis so i have to replant some everyday.. 
Today I upped the light from 6 to 7 hours and started dosing potassium sulfate and magnesium. Found out the monte carlo is a good indicator plant. I also added some fish 12 Nannostomus Beckfordi and 10 Corydora Habrosus.


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## DeepMetropolis (6 Feb 2021)

Everything is growing slowly but it grows.. Got some gsa, brown diatoms and som algea that looks like green staghorn if I pull it with some teasers it easely disattach..

Today with water change I noticed a smell like river fish smell when you catch them. Not the normal aquarium scent.Wonder whats causing this?

Ooh and the krobias have a taste for pencil fish I have only 5 left.. The Cory's and otto's are left alone. Such a shame I really loved them together.


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## Geoffrey Rea (6 Feb 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Today with water change I noticed a smell like river fish smell when you catch them.



Any of your stock unaccounted for @DeepMetropolis ? Possibly a deceased fish somewhere gone unnoticed?


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## DeepMetropolis (6 Feb 2021)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Any of your stock unaccounted for @DeepMetropolis ? Possibly a deceased fish somewhere gone unnoticed?


Yes as I said about of them most probably eaten by the krobias. It's not such a big tank looked for them everywhere but a just could not find them and the planting is not dense enough to not see it.


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## DeepMetropolis (12 Feb 2021)

What type of algea is this, and is it co2 related or something else?


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## dw1305 (12 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


DeepMetropolis said:


> What type of algea is this,


Difficult to say from the photo, but it seems to have little bumps on the stem? Which make me wonder about <"_Utricularia gibba">?_

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (12 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Difficult to say from the photo, but it seems to have little bumps on the stem? Which make me wonder about /www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticplants/utricularia-gibba']Utricularia gibba[/URL]">?[/I]
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hmm yes but I think it's not that.. I tried to make a better picture with my phone cam. But tapatalk resizes it to smaller.


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## dw1305 (12 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


DeepMetropolis said:


> I tried to make a better picture with my phone cam. But tapatalk resizes it to smaller.


You are right, definitely not _U. gibba._ I'm not sure, it might be _Cladophora, _if it is it will be "gritty" when you roll it between your fingers.

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (12 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> You are right, definitely not _U. gibba._ I'm not sure, it might be _Cladophora, _if it is it will be "gritty" when you roll it between your fingers.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Jup as I see it is, and after just reading the horror story on aquasabi I'm not very pleased.. That is going to be one long journey, I don't want to restart my tank already..


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## DeepMetropolis (14 Feb 2021)

Picket out as much algea as I could.. And added KNO3 to the dosing hope this helps. Did not dose phosphates, maybe I should? There is some gsa but not that much..


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## DeepMetropolis (26 Aug 2021)

Okay that was an epic fail the algea where exploding everywhere, the krobias ate every schooling fish I've added except for the salt/pepper corys and the big harassed the smaller one so much. Now i placed them in my big tank downstairs and they seem to be best buddy's there swimming with each other all the time.. Well anyway it gave me an opportunity to change my idea for this tank and make it a black water one, so I cleaned all the algea added japonica shrimp (such great employee) lowered the light intensity to by 30% added alot of leaf litter I've collected over time and some botanicals. Stained the water with rooibos tea and added some plants that supposed to survive lower lights and where from south america, Helanthium tenellum, Hydrocleys nymphoides, Hydrocotyle leucocephlala. Yes there are still some crypts and javafern but I was not really going for an all SA biotope.
Now just waiting for plants to grow in a bit more as far as that goes.. I still insert some co2 with a reactor just for the plants.
The dimmer yellowing light is also really great addidition for a bedroom tank


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## DeepMetropolis (21 Sep 2021)

How to keep the water tanned?
I add rooibos tea every waterchange and it get very dark but after 3 days the tannins are almost gone.
There is no carbon or purigen in my filter.


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## Wookii (21 Sep 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> How to keep the water tanned?
> I add rooibos tea every waterchange and it get very dark but after 3 days the tannins are almost gone.
> There is no carbon or purigen in my filter.



Same thing happens to mine. I believe when this was discussed in another thread, the answer was that the tannins are broken down by light fairly rapidly. From memory a bag of peat granules in the filter was suggested as a longer term (weeks rather than days) solution.

Love the look of the pencils in that tank - are they Nannostomus marginatus?


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## DeepMetropolis (21 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Same thing happens to mine. I believe when this was discussed in another thread, the answer was that the tannins are broken down by light fairly rapidly. From memory a bag of peat granules in the filter was suggested as a longer term (weeks rather than days) solution.
> 
> Love the look of the pencils in that tank - are they Nannostomus marginatus?


Okay that explains it, I thought the tannins just stayed until they got deluted by a water change. Funny when started with the wood I wanted te get rid of tannins for a clear tank and now it stopped leaking I want tannins 

Yes the fish are marginatus a very fun and active fish. I also got 3 apisto borelli and 10 Cory habrosus.


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## dw1305 (21 Sep 2021)

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> the answer was that the tannins are broken down by light fairly rapidly.


A couple of <"Alder (_Alnus glutinosa or A. cordata etc_) "cones">, added every couple of days, might do?

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (21 Sep 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A couple of /www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/rain-water-and-a-case-of-its-curious-ph.62803/#post-619419']Alder (_Alnus glutinosa or A. cordata etc_) "cones"[/URL]>, added every couple of days, might do?
> 
> cheers Darrel


I might try this since I have a big bag of them stored away.


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## Wookii (21 Sep 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Okay that explains it, I thought the tannins just stayed until they got deluted by a water change. Funny when started with the wood I wanted te get rid of tannins for a clear tank and now it stopped leaking I want tannins
> 
> Yes the fish are marginatus a very fun and active fish. I also got 3 apisto borelli and 10 Cory habrosus.



Nice! It’s a fish on my hit list! Have you had any of them jump?


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## DeepMetropolis (21 Sep 2021)

Wookii said:


> Nice! It’s a fish on my hit list! Have you had any of them jump?


Well I didn't see them jumping but I must say this is a closed tank, an open top doesn't seem right in my bedroom. And this one I had left over after upgrading to my other tank dowstairs.


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## Wookii (21 Sep 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Well I didn't see them jumping but I must say this is a closed tank, an open top doesn't seem right in my bedroom. And this one I had left over after upgrading to my other tank dowstairs.



Ah, sorry, I thought it was open topped.


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## DeepMetropolis (3 Oct 2021)

Yes! Today I finally managed to get my hands on some Parotocinclus sp.3 was searching for them for a while but now I am the proud owner of five of these. I hope they will do well in this setup they are still really small 2cm max but I could get a picture of them in low light black water anyway.


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## shangman (3 Oct 2021)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Yes! Today I finally managed to get my hands on some Parotocinclus sp.3 was searching for them for a while but now I am the proud owner of five of these. I hope they will do well in this setup they are still really small 2cm max but I could get a picture of them in low light black water anyway.


hooooooooooooooooooot damn they are NICE! Congratulations on your gorgeous fish and lovely tank!!


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## dw1305 (3 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


DeepMetropolis said:


> Parotocinclus sp.3 was searching for them for a while but now I am the proud owner of five of these


Very nice,  there is not much about about them on <"PlanetCatfish"> and I think all these little Loricariids are <"difficult to keep long term">.  This is what <"Larry Waybright (@apistomaster) says">, he is about as good as it gets for fish-keeping.

cheers Darrel


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## DeepMetropolis (3 Oct 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Very nice,  there is not much about about them on <"PlanetCatfish"> and I think all these little Loricariids are <"difficult to keep long term">.  This is what <"Larry Waybright (@apistomaster) says">, he is about as good as it gets.


Thanks for the info, there is definitely little known about them. I have beach and oak leaves in already had some sweet chesnut in it aswell although it gets eaten really fast by the 3 oto's and amanos in there so I will add some more in it too hope they will eat that. I was a bit hesitating to buy them after reading stories like that since they are not the cheapest fish, but I really do hope that they will live a good life.


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## DeepMetropolis (3 Oct 2021)

shangman said:


> hooooooooooooooooooot damn they are NICE! Congratulations on your gorgeous fish and lovely tank!!


Thanks for the kind words. I love my tank also.


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