# new set up when to start dosing ferts



## rehman73 (30 Jun 2012)

Hi guys il be planting my tank next week im just abit confused about dosing ferts.should i start dosing from day1 or should i wait a few weeks? Iv been adviced by tgm to wait 6weeks before dosing ferts.just want other opinion on here. Im using ada substate and powersand s with penac p penac w tourmaline bc clear supper and bacter 100 i will be using co2 and its a fluval edge 6g. Thanks


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## CeeJay (30 Jun 2012)

Hi rehman73

I always dose mine from day 1.
I just can't see the point in risking any shortages when you want to get your plants off to the best possible start, although with your expensive substrate you would be able to reduce dosing if you wanted to.
I've never had any problems dosing full bore from day 1


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## Matt Warner (30 Jun 2012)

+1 to what ceejay said. There is no harm in dosing ferts from day one, this way your plants will get the best start possible and won't run into deficiency problems.


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## spyder (30 Jun 2012)

Jim & staff @ TGM should know their stuff with ADA substrate systems. 6 weeks sounds a bit long though.

Personally I start ferting as soon as I flood but I use kitty litter. I can't afford the expensive stuff


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## rehman73 (30 Jun 2012)

CeeJay said:
			
		

> Hi rehman73
> 
> I always dose mine from day 1.
> I just can't see the point in risking any shortages when you want to get your plants off to the best possible start, although with your expensive substrate you would be able to reduce dosing if you wanted to.
> I've never had any problems dosing full bore from day 1


Thanks for the input Ceejay i definitly want the best start especially being a newbie can't afford to run into any problems.im defo going to go with dosing from day 1 just like others have suggested on here thanks mate


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## rehman73 (30 Jun 2012)

Matty1983 said:
			
		

> +1 to what ceejay said. There is no harm in dosing ferts from day one, this way your plants will get the best start possible and won't run into deficiency problems.


Thanks matty1983


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## rehman73 (30 Jun 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> Jim & staff @ TGM should know their stuff with ADA substrate systems. 6 weeks sounds a bit long though.
> 
> Personally I start ferting as soon as I flood but I use kitty litter. I can't afford the expensive stuff


I posted a question on Tgm website in the ask question section i dont know who replied to me but anyway the guys are experts and they know what they talking about only thing left me thinking is that alot of people on here starting dosing from day1 so just was a little confused.only reason iv gone full wack ada is due to the lack of experience and knowledge i have,its my first tank so i wanted i good start my next tank im going to look into a cheaper option ada stuff is good but damn expensive bank balance is really low now.


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## Polyester (30 Jun 2012)

I read that it was good to wait before starting....big mistake, got major deficiencies showing after 10 days and have trouble getting the balance right after. My tank have only been up for 2 weeks though.

Would suggest from day 1


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## spyder (30 Jun 2012)

rehman73 said:
			
		

> only reason iv gone full wack ada is due to the lack of experience and knowledge i have,



If you have gone "full whack ADA" then you also have the ferts? I've never used them but I believe they are lower concentrations than that supplied by the average EI user and come in many flavours for different times during a tanks development. They should also have instructions for use. I recall reading about them some time back, there is one to use at the start, something else to use after a big trim, another to use when the dogs had kittens blah blah.

I suppose if the substrate had a good nutrient load then you may be able to go without ferting for 6 weeks. Whether this is ideal for your setup would be another story.

Bottom line is. Excess ferts, no real biggie. Shortage of ferts, = problems.


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## rehman73 (30 Jun 2012)

spyder said:
			
		

> rehman73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry better clarify my self what i meant by full whack ada is the substrate and the aditives that i have added in the substrate.no i dont have the ada fertz and tbh i wouldnt get the either its ie all the way for me.thanks


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## rehman73 (1 Jul 2012)

Polyester said:
			
		

> I read that it was good to wait before starting....big mistake, got major deficiencies showing after 10 days and have trouble getting the balance right after. My tank have only been up for 2 weeks though.
> 
> Would suggest from day 1


Thanks polyester for sharing your experience hope it goes well for you cheers.


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## Mick.Dk (1 Jul 2012)

The main reason for advising you to hold back on ferts. would surely be to not run into algea problems. As long as your other parametres are under full control, you can dose from day one,ofcourse adjusting to amount of plant-mass. If you are not totally in control, however, it's guite good advise, to "underdose" a little in the upstart fase.
Mick.


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## Tim Harrison (1 Jul 2012)

I'd dose from day one. nothing ever dies of an overdose, except from Hollywood film stars!


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## rehman73 (2 Jul 2012)

Mick.Dk said:
			
		

> The main reason for advising you to hold back on ferts. would surely be to not run into algea problems. As long as your other parametres are under full control, you can dose from day one,ofcourse adjusting to amount of plant-mass. If you are not totally in control, however, it's guite good advise, to "underdose" a little in the upstart fase.
> Mick.


Thanks Mick,i am going to plant the tank up one time so it will be heavily planted only thing that i am concerned about is that the plants im using are all slow growers which means they dont take up nutrient up as fast as the faster growing plants such as the stem plant since you have mentioned 'algea problems' im thinking now i might have algea issues due to excess nutrients in the water column as well as what the ada substrate leeches out on the initial setup.Im might just leave the tank for a week or two whilst im doing the massive water changes and keep a close i on the tank if i see any difficiency in the plants  then i might start fert with Ei.What you reckon guys im in two minds now?


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## Tim Harrison (2 Jul 2012)

This article of Clive's should be of help http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm, especially the section - "Won’t all these nutrients cause algae?"


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## CeeJay (2 Jul 2012)

Hi all


			
				Mick.Dk said:
			
		

> The main reason for advising you to hold back on ferts. would surely be to not run into algea problems.


This is incorrect.




			
				Mick.Dk said:
			
		

> If you are not totally in control, however, it's guite good advise, to "underdose" a little in the upstart fase.


There is no valid reason to underdose a tank...........ever. We are trying to grow aquatic plants here and aquatic plants need nutrients, and always will. 
It's when you underdose you get all your associated algae problems.

rehman73
You will never have algae issues due to excess nutrients in the water column. However, you may have algae issues when your ADA substrate starts leeching ammonia. Ammonia + Light = Algae...............guaranteed, so you need to keep on top of the water changes at the start.
One of the problems with a planted tank is that once you get algae, it actually feeds on the very same stuff that you are dosing for your plants. Our problem is the 'trigger'. If we remove the 'trigger' then no algae. We do this with our maintenance and water change regime, then you can dose as much as you like. 
I have run double EI values in a tank for 9 months with no algae, and there is someone round here who has dosed even more than that   (you know who you are    ) .  
It so happens his tanks look 10x better than mine  

Personally, you don't need to worry about uptake rates (as long as you are exceeding them), so I would just dose from the start.
The article Troi links to is a fantastic read. If you can absorb that lot, you will see the light  :idea:


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## rehman73 (2 Jul 2012)

Thankyou very much Troi and Ceejay you have really put my mind as ease now.great article Troi explains alot,thanks Ceejay you have made it very clear.


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## Mick.Dk (3 Jul 2012)

Sorry to have brought you more confusion rehman
I simply missed you'd be using the E.I. principles, and wasn't aware there was a text explaining those fundamentals in such an accesable way, laying around here.
I does ofcourse not disagree, since the principles are basic!
Another lesson in communication learned for me, and hopefully not too much frustration for you.
Mick.


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## rehman73 (3 Jul 2012)

No problem Mick any advice welcome.thanks


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## rehman73 (4 Jul 2012)

Hi how should i does the Ei macro and micros when i will be doing large water changes due to the ada substrate leeching out high amounts of ammonia.If i do a water change every day in the first week then will i need  to add micro or macros each
time?


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## Ady34 (4 Jul 2012)

Hi,
depends reallywhen you do your water changes. If you can do them say first thing on a morning BEFORE you dose ferts anyway, then dose afterwards the rule of ei providing in excess will theoretically be providing enough nutrients until tomorrow as it were. However if your going to be doing water changes on an evening and you have dosed in the morning i would say add a half dose to top up the 50% of water you have renewed (or proportionate amount to water volume changed). Hope that makes sense.
Ady.


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## rehman73 (4 Jul 2012)

Thanks Ady will it be ok to dose both micro and macro together then for the time being?


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## Ady34 (4 Jul 2012)

rehman73 said:
			
		

> Thanks Ady will it be ok to dose both micro and macro together then for the time being?


It is advised not to do this to avoid precipitation of some of the ferts. Funnily enough i am currently having a few issues which may well be down to dosing macro and micro one after another on the same day. My advice is to dose Macro one day, micro the next. APFUK suggest macro, micro, macro, micro, macro, 2 rest days, then start the cycle again.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## rehman73 (4 Jul 2012)

Thanks Ady for you response.i allready know the schedule on dosing the ferts its the same thing on fluidsensor website,what i cant get my head round is,for example on monday i do a large water change then i dose the macro then on tuesday morning i do another water change and i dose the micro, because iv'e done the water change then i assume the macro is no longer in the water so how do i go about doing this? Should i not dose for a week due to the large water changes in the first week and then start dosing from the second week any body?


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## Ady34 (4 Jul 2012)

Well if you do say a 50% water change then the macro content will have reduced by only 50% so there will still be the other 50% in the water column. In the early stages we do water changes frequently to reduce ammonia and organic build up whilst the plants arnt at full growth capacity ie when they are in transition and 'getting their roots down' as to say. The Plants effectively realistically wont be utilising all the nutrients until they have settled, plus EI is to provide in excess so you will have no problem. By the time you have cycled you wont be doing every day water changes, and will have reduced their frequency over the next three to four weeks so this will no longer be an issue and will give greater acess to the ferts as the plants begin to grow in earnest.
Hope that makes sense.
Ady.


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## rehman73 (5 Jul 2012)

Thankyou very much Ady appreciate your help.


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