# Why should you grow your own bugs!



## ghostsword (11 May 2011)

I went yesterday to a local shop, looking for dapnia to setup a small live food tank on the garden.

As I bought the bags the guy on the other side o the counter told me to look carefully before I put the critters on the tank, as sometimes there are predators with them. 

I was puzzled, what sort of predators would it be with sub tiny critters? I couldn't see any.

Hydra says he, sometimes there are hydra mixed with them.

Nice..... Just nice...



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## Tom (11 May 2011)

Yep!


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## Garuf (11 May 2011)

I got hydra in a tank that had never seen live food ever, I'm pretty certain they're water borne in the egg stage and enter water that way. 
No info on that hypothosis but a good read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_%28genus%29


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## a1Matt (11 May 2011)

I have numerous bugs in my tanks that were introduced with daphnia.
I love having them in my nano on my desk as I can sit with my nose right in front of the tank and peer for ages in fascination at them all. Have had hydra from time to time and they never did any harm to anything.


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## ghostsword (11 May 2011)

Ok, maybe I'm old school but I always thought that hydra was bad for fish and shrimps, at least it was bad for fish in the mid 80's, no shrimp in tanks then. 

The bugs have gone to the garden, this weekend will check if they survived an start collecting some for my fish .


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## bigmatt (11 May 2011)

It's a general problem with live food from shops in that you don't KNOW what else is in the bag - Bloodworm, for example, tend to be found/bred in stagnant nasty water that you don't necessarily want to be adding to your tank.  I'm going to be setting up a spare nano for Daphnia for this reason, and also because i think they're fascinating! 
M


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## ghostsword (11 May 2011)

bigmatt said:
			
		

> It's a general problem with live food from shops in that you don't KNOW what else is in the bag - Bloodworm, for example, tend to be found/bred in stagnant nasty water that you don't necessarily want to be adding to your tank.  I'm going to be setting up a spare nano for Daphnia for this reason, and also because i think they're fascinating!
> M



The daphnia, would they live and survive on a nano tank? What about the filter? What do they eat?

I got a 8L nano, too small for fish, but for daphnia would be good, I think.


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## Gill (11 May 2011)

Yep Another reason I grow my Own. 
In the past have received the following in with Daphnia:
Water beetle,
Water Scorpion,
Water Boatman,
Midges,
Mayfly,
Mozzies,
Ostracods,
Isopods etc

This year the early warm weather has been great for daphnia. Numbers have really boosted due to the heat and abundant green water.


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## a1Matt (11 May 2011)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Ok, maybe I'm old school but I always thought that hydra was bad for fish and shrimps, at least it was bad for fish in the mid 80's, no shrimp in tanks then.



I think thats still the commonly held view.  It is just me being different again   I've sat there for hours straight watching fish chase hydra (they are tough for them to catch). Never seen it the other way around, but thats not to say it does not happen.



			
				bigmatt said:
			
		

> It's a general problem with live food from shops in that you don't KNOW what else is in the bag - Bloodworm, for example, tend to be found/bred in stagnant nasty water that you don't necessarily want to be adding to your tank.  I'm going to be setting up a spare nano for Daphnia for this reason, and also because i think they're fascinating!
> M



The water is usually rank and I would never add it to my tank, I always net out the critters and add them separately.



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> The daphnia, would they live and survive on a nano tank? What about the filter? What do they eat?
> 
> I got a 8L nano, too small for fish, but for daphnia would be good, I think.




The first stumbling block I found was flow, anything above an air driven sponge filter and they did not last long.
They eat all sorts, but green water seems to be the main choice for people who culture them.

I will stop advising you there as have not cracked successful long term daphnia production. I can keep a few alive indefinitely but getting them to reproduce consistently in sizeable amounts without crashing is an art I have not yet mastered.

The net has loads of info (lots conflicting as you'd expect).
I am recently experimenting with using spirulina as a food (something Pardeep told me about).

The main use I have for daphnia is keeping the water from going stagnant in my unfiltered vases.


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## Gill (11 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> The net has loads of info (lots conflicting as you'd expect).
> I am recently experimenting with using spirulina as a food (something Pardeep told me about).
> 
> The main use I have for daphnia is keeping the water from going stagnant in my unfiltered vases.



Yep, Spirulina powder is great for daphnia, sprinkle a pinch every so often into the water and watch as they fill up green. 

Tip:

Either Ebay powdered spirulina, or wait for the better than half price sale @ holland and barret (best you can get IMHO + IME) and buy a large bottle of it. and it will last you years.


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## ghostsword (11 May 2011)

Ok, so they can be kept on stagnant water, no flow or little, and they eat spirulina and greet water. 

I placed mine on the acrylic tank on the garden, had some snails on it, apple snails, but they died, maybe too cold for them. 

It has some green water already, should I add some crushed Pleco food? This until I get some spirulina? 

When I was a kid I use to pick up daphnia from concrete building foundations, no idea how they got there, but where great food for my angel fish and guppies.


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## Gill (11 May 2011)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Ok, so they can be kept on stagnant water, no flow or little, and they eat spirulina and greet water.
> 
> I placed mine on the acrylic tank on the garden, had some snails on it, apple snails, but they died, maybe too cold for them.
> 
> ...




I always add snails into the bucket/barrel. Stagnant with no flow at all. 
Something else i do is throw in left over from lettuce and salad bags, that should suffice.


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## ghostsword (11 May 2011)

Cool, will throw in a piece of lettuce then. 

Will be fun to catch the critters to give to the fish. Mosquito larvae are always on the water outside, the neons love them.


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## nayr88 (11 May 2011)

Growing your own bugs is the way forward, I was spending so much on brine shrimp for my apisto's I had to sort something out, took a while to get them confident enough to come and take the flies from the waters surface but now there mad about them haha.

Havnt had to buy food for them for weeks now


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## Gill (11 May 2011)

The best part is you know exactly what you are feeding them, as you are gut loading to food prior to feeding.


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## nayr88 (12 May 2011)

yeah my flies have weetabix, a piece of tomato and a grape 

what do you think would help to add some kind of colour enhancement to the a.cacas? something high in protein?


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## Radik (12 May 2011)

So what should be minimum canister size to grow daphnia? Is some 10L bucket fine or something bigger? Keep it on sun or in shade or 50/50?


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## Garuf (12 May 2011)

nayr88 said:
			
		

> yeah my flies have weetabix, a piece of tomato and a grape
> 
> what do you think would help to add some kind of colour enhancement to the a.cacas? something high in protein?


Your flies eat better than I do.


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## nayr88 (12 May 2011)

Haha, if you can fit in a mayo jar your more than welcome to take up residence in the fish drawer haha


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## Gill (12 May 2011)

Radik said:
			
		

> So what should be minimum canister size to grow daphnia? Is some 10L bucket fine or something bigger? Keep it on sun or in shade or 50/50?




A bucket is fine and full sun is fine. Saying that the smallest size i have grown them in is 200ml.


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## dw1305 (12 May 2011)

Hi all,


> Is some 10L bucket fine or something bigger


 Same as Gill 10L is fine. This is the method I use for _Daphnia_ culture: 





> I use ordinary 99p Builder's buckets, with a handful of limestone gravel, filled with rain-water, and with a good handful of grass clippings. I leave this a couple of weeks and then inoculate it with some Daphnia and a couple of pond snails. These are reasonably good and also produce Blood-worms and Mosquito larvae. As the productivity falls off you can just add some more grass clippings. If you use sheep or rabbit manure rather than grass they are more productive, but may crash. The same with positioning in the spring they can have full sun, but as the days warm up they need to go to somewhere with more shade (especially around mid day). If you want Mosquito larvae you need to float a cork in the bucket to provide a landing platform for the mosquitoes. If you can stop these freezing solid, they will produce Blood-worms and Daphnia even in the winter.
> 
> You can feed the cultures with a gram flour and paprika suspension, your also meant to be able to use bakers yeast, but when I tried this it all went horribly wrong (too much yeast?). I've cultured Daphnia inside using 1 litre ice cream cartons with very gentle aeration (you need big bubbles rather than the small ones from an air stone), a snail and the gram flour feed mix. They are quite high maintenance to keep going productively as they are very prone to "crashing", so you really need to keep multiple cultures, seeding new ones all the time. You can harvest every day from them when they are going well.
> 
> If you don't mind them not being very productive you can use an ordinary rain-water butt and just inoculate and then ignore them. The advantage of this is that you trickle feed them with water changes and the numbers never build up hugely into the "boom and bust" cycle. It should also give you a reservoir of Daphnia for seeding your buckets. Rain-water may not work for everybody, but It is all limestone around here and even my rainwater is above pH7.



cheers Darrel


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## sr20det (12 May 2011)

I have a bucket of Mos Larvae and blood worms in a bucket at the back, but does daphnia need to be introduced?  Does appear from flying critter like mos larvae, etc?


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## a1Matt (12 May 2011)

I expect it will appear naturally given enough time.
I'd be inclined to spend 50p on a bag from the LFS just to get things going.


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## ghostsword (12 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> I expect it will appear naturally given enough time.
> I'd be inclined to spend 50p on a bag from the LFS just to get things going.



There is no way that Daphnia will appear by itself.  nothing appears by itself.


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## a1Matt (12 May 2011)

You'd be amazed what can appear by itself in a body of water outside.  Things can get carried\blown\dropped in.
Even fish will appear if you leave a pond empty long enough!!


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## ghostsword (12 May 2011)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> You'd be amazed what can appear by itself in a body of water outside.  Things can get carried\blown\dropped in.
> Even fish will appear if you leave a pond empty long enough!!



it's the fairies dude..  or the aliens.


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## a1Matt (12 May 2011)




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## greenjar (12 May 2011)

This thread has inspired me to give it a go (culturing and harvesting daphnia) - seems like a win win situation - you get to rear and tinker about with another life form whilst producing food for another - cant wait to see the results


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## nayr88 (12 May 2011)

greenjar said:
			
		

> This thread has inspired me to give it a go (culturing and harvesting daphnia) - seems like a win win situation - you get to rear and tinker about with another life form whilst producing food for another - cant wait to see the results



Great way of looking at it, not only can you feed your fish cheaply and well but you get to set up a little nature pond in a bucket


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## greenjar (4 Jun 2011)

Hi folks

I set up a "nature pond" in a bucket placed outdoors using Darrels method described above (thanks Darrel)    I intended to add Daphnia and try to grow these on for my fish but have'nt got round to adding the Daphnia to start things off yet.

I have however aquired some other little inhabitants and I'm hoping someone can help ID them for me and advise or assure me that these are ok to add to my tank to supplement the usual fish diet 

I have added a picture showing these "black banana floating things" where I think these critters have hatched from.  On the photo I've also circled one of the critters in question (about 2.5mm in size) Also sketched a pic to give you an idea of their form to the naked eye. 

Any identification help would be much appreciated.  Thanks


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## ghostsword (4 Jun 2011)

That looks like a mosquito larvae.

I got daphnia on mine, got mosquito larvae, but also got something else that I cannot identify. It is shaped like the daphnia buy way bigger.

Also I have run out of green water, and the water is in full sun all day. 


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## Johno2090 (4 Jun 2011)

Prob just one of 80 species of "Water Flea" lol 

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... wflea.html


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## ghostsword (4 Jun 2011)

Cool, so they are Daphnias just really big ones. The fish eat them, so it is good food! 

I now once a day scoop some from outside and drop them on the tank. 


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## greenjar (5 Jun 2011)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> That looks like a mosquito larvae.



Cool, thanks for the ID Luis


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## tonyg1 (5 Jul 2011)

i have a water but(well a disused pond filter)that is full of green water and loads of critters in it mozzie lava etc,it has'nt been used with the pond for years would it be safe to use these as live food in my tank?.


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## dw1305 (6 Jul 2011)

Hi all,


> that is full of green water and loads of critters in it mozzie lava etc,it has'nt been used with the pond for years would it be safe to use these as live food in my tank?.


 Yes, you just need to keep an eye out for Dragon/Damsel Fly nymphs.

cheers Darrel


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## Sentral (7 Jul 2011)

I used to have a box in the garden full of these, and did so for around 7-8 months. Basically an unlimited supply for my tank!
Just leave a container out for a while so it collects water and debris (Leaves etc) and make sure it gets a bit of sun. I only chucked half a bag in and within a few weeks it was full of babies. Dead easy, just harvest a couple of nets worth every week or so.


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## Ben M (11 Jul 2011)

I have a big tub outside with loads of moss balls in. It is full of mosquito larvae and bloodworm (I think) ATM. Yesterday I introduced a damselfly nymph to see how it gets along. I saw it today scuttling around in there and it seems happy up to now. I'm not too bothered that It'll eat some of the bugs, as there are millions lol.


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## ghostsword (12 Jul 2011)

A while ago I lost my whole population of daphnia on the hot weather. 

Have now placed floating plants and a bag from the lfs with daphnia. Got lots of them already.

Placed a spiralina tab, but is there anything else they eat?


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## greenjar (12 Jul 2011)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> is there anything else they eat?
> 
> .



Luis - Im going to try feeding mine the juice from pur'eed peas once the green water they're in now is gone. I got this option for food from this website. Nice little read, this article   

http://www.caudata.org/daphnia/#what3

I only added the Daphnia culture to the oudoors tank this weekend. Prior to this, the tank has been outside for 3 week developing green water for the daphnia.  Amazing little creatures, intresting and fun to keep.....I think I can get addicted to keeping them  

This is the first time I'm keeping them so cant comment on foods that I've tried and tested.  Sorry

Keep us updated on how you get on...Ill do the same   

Below is a picture of the daphnia tank on the day of setup some weeks ago.  Unfortunately didnt take one with the water green.  Rocks and plants are gone.  Only the gravel and sand remains.  Tank is sitting on the ground.  The Ikea table its sat on was about to break in half the day after setting up....dont know what I was thinking haha


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## ghostsword (12 Jul 2011)

The water they are on is clear, no more green algae. They are fat and brown, not red but the fish like them a lot. I also feed them to the dwarf frog I have.

They are very cool critters to watch, would look cool on a magnifying glass tank, if such thing exists. 

The best is that mosquito larvae also 
appear on the tank, making it a perfect source of food for the fish.

.


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## greenjar (11 Nov 2011)

Ben M said:
			
		

> I have a big tub outside with loads of moss balls in. It is full of mosquito larvae and bloodworm (I think) ATM.



I've just broken down and packed away my "outdoor bug tank for the winter"  The tank was cultured by just a couple of those little bags of Daphnia from the LFS.  These guys thrived and multiplied throughout the summer.  Mosquito lavae and bloodworm naturally found their way into there too, towards the end of the summer.  Once the tank got going I must admit that I never even conciously fed the tank with any sort of food etc (just sustained itself)  I was able to comfortably feed my fish 3 x weekly using this lot and was able to give alot away to friends

Anyhow, the point of this post is just to say that if you've never grown your own bugs before, you really should consider giving it a go next summer - Really is a rewarding and satisfying experience and I'll be doing again next summer for sure


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## spyder (11 Nov 2011)

I will be trying this for sure next year. I'll be using one of those plastic storage containers, maybe around 60-70l.


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## greenjar (11 Nov 2011)

spyder said:
			
		

> I will be trying this for sure next year. I'll be using one of those plastic storage containers, maybe around 60-70l.



I know that is what alot of people use   I used an old 3 foot tank which I think offers a few benefits over the plastic tub (maybe I'm wrong on this though) Firstly, theres a bit more surface area for the mozzies to land and drop there eggs etc and I think that perhaps the biggest benefit for me was the glass sides let in lots of sunlight so I always had green water for them to feed on - not sure if this is the case so much with the plastic tubs???

Forgot to mention that I did do  periodic unscheduled 50% water changes to

Spyder,  you'll enjoy it either way.....really worth the effort (all be it very minimal   )


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## darren636 (17 Mar 2012)

There is no way that Daphnia will appear by itself.  nothing appears by itself. the universe did!


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