# Coral red pencil fish



## Conort2 (19 Jul 2020)

Hi guys,

I’ve just picked up a group of coral red pencil fish. Just wanted to know if anyone has had any luck breeding them or any of the closely related species? Information on the internet seems to be rather sparse. Not sure if it’s because these are difficult to breed or there’s not many people keeping them.

cheers

Conor


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## JeffK (19 Jul 2020)

They are not hard to breed. Seperate a male with two or three females with the right water parameters for a few days, you should find some fry a week later.

Make sure there's plenty of moss etc in there to provide enough food for the first few days. BBS after that.

Keep an eye on the males. They are quite aggressive towards another.


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## mort (19 Jul 2020)

I've not personally kept them but they shouldn't be very hard to breed. I love pencilfish and the only reason I don't keep these is that they are very expensive around here (£12-27 each), so a decent sized group would set me back a fair amount. I have bred beckfordi, eques, marginatus and trifasciatus, through very little intervention from me.
The ones I have seen are all local bred near me and I think the vast majority of these are captive bred.


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## Conort2 (19 Jul 2020)

Thanks guys. They certainly are feisty for their size, hopefully they settle down.

Think the main issue I’m going to have is wether I have females or not. It’s clear that the bulk of the eight ive got are males but there’s appears to be at least a couple of females, however these may turn out to be immature males. Would love to breed them as they are a pretty expensive fish and only available wild caught in limited numbers. I got lucky and got them for under 9 quid a fish. Still expensive for a pencil fish but much cheaper than I have seen them before! Think I will get a small cube set up for them once they are conditioned and hopefully get these bred and spread around for a more affordable price for people.

cheers

Conor


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## dw1305 (19 Jul 2020)

Hi all,





JK1991 said:


> Keep an eye on the males. They are quite aggressive towards another.





Conort2 said:


> They certainly are feisty for their size





Conort2 said:


> Think I will get a small cube set up for them once they are conditioned and hopefully get these bred and spread around for a more affordable price for people.


I've not kept them either, but I wouldn't put them in a small cube tank, even for breeding, I think that a bigger tank would give more hope of escape if things get rough.

In terms of conditioning I would try mosquito larvae, and you may find that they will only eat in the morning and evening. I've raised a few _Nannostomus marginatus, _again raised is a lie, they raised themselves but I think the spawning pair eat the eggs.

Have a look at <"TomC's website"> he is a Pencilfish fan, and says;.





> In my tanks, they live in tanks with pH from 4,2 - 6,5. I see no difference in behavior as the pH varies, except that fry only grow up in the tank where the pH is below 5,5. Others have breed them in pH 6,5. ..........In my tanks they live among floating plants (_Ceratopteris cornuta_) in tanks where _Apistogramma_ rules in the lower levels of the tank.
> 
> Where they share a tank with Apistogramma elizabethae, the water is pre-filtered through peat, very soft, and with a pH of 4,2 - 5,5. Here they breed, and a few of the fry grow up now and then.


cheers Darrel


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## Conort2 (19 Jul 2020)

dw1305 said:


> I've not kept them either, but I wouldn't put them in a small cube tank, even for breeding, I think that a bigger tank would give more hope of escape if things get rough.


Ah ok, something to think about then. Was just more for the fact I could have a low ph set up specifically for breeding, would be doable to use ro in say a 30cm cube. RO water is not going to be feasible in their display tank. So far things haven’t been too rough, but it’s early days and the fish are still young. Things could get tougher once they mature.

cheers

Conor


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## alto (19 Jul 2020)

I’d guess a bookshelf aquarium dimension would suit better than a 30cm cube - and not cost too much more in RO 

(rainwater collection in London???)

Definitely need some fish photos!


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## sparkyweasel (20 Jul 2020)

You could put a pair, or a MFF trio in the cube just for spawning, after conditioning them in a bigger tank


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## mort (20 Jul 2020)

The best thing you can have for pencilfish groups is cover. In my tank that I keep beckfordi in, I have lots of plant growth in the upper third of the tank and this creates line of sight breaks. My group got male heavy at one time and I had ten males out of the group of fifteen but only the more dominant males were seen sparring.
Unfortunately if they are wild caught I think you are more likely to have male heavy groups as the females are seen as less desirable. I'd personally want a ratio of one male to at least 3 females but ideally 4 or 5. With a male heavy group you might be best keeping them in a very densely planted tank just to curb any aggression.

I tend to see the odd fry make it to adulthood by just leaving them but have had surprisingly good numbers when I've done as sparkyweasel mentions and put them in a spawning tank. My method is to heavily feed the parents live food for a couple of weeks and then add a male and single female to the spawning tank with a course net over the bottom for the eggs to fall through. I tried with a spawning mop and moss but they just randomly scattered the eggs. After they have spawned I return the breeding pair and add another, then repeat over a couple of days, until I see I have enough to have a good batch.


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## mort (20 Jul 2020)

These definitely prey on their own eggs and will also devour any fry small enough to be seen as food. I've also seen them constantly harass young fry to big to eat, so again heavy planting or a separate tank is the way to go.


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## Conort2 (20 Jul 2020)

mort said:


> The best thing you can have for pencilfish groups is cover. In my tank that I keep beckfordi in, I have lots of plant growth in the upper third of the tank and this creates line of sight breaks. My group got male heavy at one time and I had ten males out of the group of fifteen but only the more dominant males were seen sparring.
> Unfortunately if they are wild caught I think you are more likely to have male heavy groups as the females are seen as less desirable. I'd personally want a ratio of one male to at least 3 females but ideally 4 or 5. With a male heavy group you might be best keeping them in a very densely planted tank just to curb any aggression.


The tank is heavily planted so I think they’ll be ok in regards to getting away if needs be. I will keep a look out for more females however they’re not the easiest to find as no one wants to pay that much for a fish that looks like a marginatus rather than a coral red! I will try and get some photos at some point to see what you guys think of the sexes.

Fingers crossed I have some females as I don’t fancy having to purchase many more as they are bloody expensive for a dither fish. I’d pay a load for a l number plec that hides most of the time but when it comes to the rarer tetras and pencils I can’t justify the price as much, stupid I know lol!

cheers


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## Conort2 (20 Jul 2020)

Some horrific photos, sorry photography is not my strong point! The last three are of two fish which I think could be females, however they are very small so could be immature males, what do you think?

cheers

Conor


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## rebel (21 Jul 2020)

Fascinating thread.

In Australia we pay about $80 each when they are rarely available. 
https://coburgaquarium.com.au/products/coral-red-pencilfish-pair


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## mort (21 Jul 2020)

The last couple certainly look more like female colouration but I guess only time will tell.


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## Conort2 (28 Feb 2021)

Just a bit of an update really. I never realised how much this lot had grown until I saw these old pictures! Thankfully ended up with a fairly even mix of males and females which spawn frequently. Once I move house I will set up a dedicated breeding tank for them and hopefully raise some fry.

Thought I’d snap a few pictures whilst the males were showing off to the females.

Cheers


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## mort (28 Feb 2021)

Those are some of the nicest/healthiest examples of that species I've seen. Very envious


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## Conort2 (28 Feb 2021)

mort said:


> Those are some of the nicest/healthiest examples of that species I've seen. Very envious


Thankyou @mort. Considering what they looked like when I got them it’s fair to say I’m chuffed with them. Hopefully I will have some youngsters to share amongst UKAPS members in the future.

Cheers


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## Paul27 (28 Feb 2021)

What a difference to when you got them to how they are now. The colours are amazing!.


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## Steve Buce (28 Feb 2021)

Great looking fish, put me down for some offspring😀


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## shangman (28 Feb 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Hopefully I will have some youngsters to share amongst UKAPS members in the future.


👀👀👀
Dangerous talk that is!


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## Wookii (1 Mar 2021)

Beautiful looking fish @Conort2 - do you have to keep them in a covered tank?


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## Conort2 (1 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> Beautiful looking fish @Conort2 - do you have to keep them in a covered tank?


Thankyou @Wookii . I use one of those jump guards as I have a rimless tank. Not too sure if they would jump, they were definitely small enough to jump through gaps in the screen of the jump guard when I got them however I didn’t lose any. 

However I’m not sure if I’d recommend taking the risk with an uncovered tank with them. Most places seem to sell them for around 12-15 pound mark which is an expensive gamble if you have a group.

Cheers


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## Wookii (1 Mar 2021)

Conort2 said:


> Thankyou @Wookii . I use one of those jump guards as I have a rimless tank. Not too sure if they would jump, they were definitely small enough to jump through gaps in the screen of the jump guard when I got them however I didn’t lose any.
> 
> However I’m not sure if I’d recommend taking the risk with an uncovered tank with them. Most places seem to sell them for around 12-15 pound mark which is an expensive gamble if you have a group.
> 
> Cheers



Thanks Conor. How large are yours? Seriously Fish lists them at 25-30mm, but yours looks larger (though it could just be the photo perspective).


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## Conort2 (1 Mar 2021)

Wookii said:


> Thanks Conor. How large are yours? Seriously Fish lists them at 25-30mm, but yours looks larger (though it could just be the photo perspective).


I recon the females are around that size but the two dominant males are probably 10mm or so bigger. One thing to note with these is they can be pretty harsh on each other when they want to. Most of the time they’ll swim around happily as they are in these pictures but the dominant males can turn all of a sudden and send all the other pencil fish cowering into the plants. Split fins aren’t uncommon when these episodes occur. 

They also occasionally nip newly introduced fishes fins but the novelty wears off after a few hours and they never do it again. Very bizarre behaviour and can’t explain why they do it. They are certainly not a fish for nano tanks which is what I have seen recommended in the past.

Cheers


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## rebel (3 Mar 2021)

LMAO! What's a small bite among friends?


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## timdjones10 (16 Mar 2021)

Awesome fish, but worth keeping a lid on, I've had bad experience with this species jumping!


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## Steve Buce (2 Apr 2021)

Any updates on this project , have they coloured up yet


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