# Fishless Cycling and Hobby Grade Test Kits



## Andy D (26 Feb 2014)

Hi All,

This subject crops up quite frequently and whilst I have read the many informative posts I still have a couple of queries.

1. Do hobby grade kits measure zero accurately?

Now I have read many of Clive's and Darrel's post about the inaccuracy of kits like the API Freshwater test kit and I accept that they do not give an accurate measure of the level of ammonia, nitrite and nitrite. But, do they read zero correctly?

If we take Nitrite for example. If I test for nitrite and get a result of 2ppm I accept that this could be wrong and may not be solely measuring nitrite. But if there is no nitrite or any other chemicals that will give a read on the kit then can we be sure that the zero read is zero? (I hope my rumblings here make sense  ) I have to assume that it does measure zero correctly as so many people have followed the fishless cycling with ammonia process and all go through the same pattern of results. Sure the levels detected could be wrong when 'something' is detected but they cannot all have inaccurate zero reads surely?

2. Fishless Cycling with ammonia.

I appreciate that ammonia can kill the bacteria that we are trying to cultivate. BUT, does it mean the process does not work?
Assuming the answer to my question above is 'yes, hobby kits can measure zero' then the fishless cycle with ammonia would seem to work. I am sure we are all aware of the process. Let's ignore any test kit result apart from zero as we know they are most likely incorrect. If we dose ammonia and the ammonia level and nitrite level test at zero 12 hours later is the tank not cycled?

(I appreciate that within the context of this specific forum and with heavily planted tanks this process is not necessary but there are a few experts on here who can at least advise if the process works).


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## ceg4048 (26 Feb 2014)

Andy D said:


> Now I have read many of Clive's and Darrel's post about the inaccuracy of kits like the API Freshwater test kit and I accept that they do not give an accurate measure of the level of ammonia, nitrite and nitrite. But, do they read zero correctly?


As often as not. But remember that in a tank you never really have zero. Even so, I've had kits read a positive number when testing RO water.




Andy D said:


> I appreciate that ammonia can kill the bacteria that we are trying to cultivate. BUT, does it mean the process does not work?
> Assuming the answer to my question above is 'yes, hobby kits can measure zero' then the fishless cycle with ammonia would seem to work. I am sure we are all aware of the process. Let's ignore any test kit result apart from zero as we know they are most likely incorrect. If we dose ammonia and the ammonia level and nitrite level test at zero 12 hours later is the tank not cycled?


Again, it's an absurdity because a tank cannot really be cycled that quickly. The problem in The Matrix is that prisoners have been programmed to equate some zero reading with the idea of "cycled" and no one has told them that cycled means a lot more than just what the population of 3 species of bacteria are, or what their output has been recently. There are thousands of bacterial and archaean species that have interactions. All that takes time to develop the diversity and population densities. People are also focused only on what's happening in the filter media and they never even consider the sediment, which is a huge part of the maturity of the tank. Many time, algae that appears on the sediment can be traced directly to it's immaturity. A lot of fish problems occur later on and that's because they were physically damaged by the chemistry of the water due to immaturity of the tank system. The hobbyist never then looks back retrospectively to analyze what went wrong from the beginning. They just blame any popular myths. I mean, that's exactly how the fear of nitrate became popular. "My fish are dying because of these nitrates that are building up in the tank - not by the ammonia or nitrite spikes that occurred when I stopped testing and declared the tank cycled." ask yourself, is it possible that damage could be done to inhabitants that may not be enough to kill them outright but may weaken them and make them susceptible to some other trauma in the tank that they may have been better prepared to deal with if they were not injured by the immature chemistry of the tank? Is it possible that toxicity can occur when I am not testing...like at night?

The question of "can it work" is not deep enough. You have to look at the events in tanks more broadly. You can do some bad things to the tank that can then be mitigated by doing some good things. Lots of water changes helps to reduce toxicity. Some don't like to do water changes and their test kit gives them false sense of security. So they get some level of toxicity perhaps combined with poor oxygen levels due to the aerobic breakdown and that damages the fish. The combinations are almost endless. It just depends on how you manage the tank. The people who are putting their trust in test kits are likely the same who are following poor procedures. We see this every day.

Cheers,


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## Andy D (26 Feb 2014)

Thanks Clive. 

You are right (of course) in that the focus in on these three species alone. Quite often I read posts about people losing fish just after a cycle and there is no explanation. I believed it was one of maturity and I think you have just confirmed it.

Thanks.


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## darren636 (26 Feb 2014)

Its time for a cycling / new tank prep sticky.


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## Sacha (26 Feb 2014)

The shorter answer is that the 2013 API ammonia tests show a false (green) positive for ammonia, so watch out for that.


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## daizeUK (26 Feb 2014)

Andy D said:


> Hi All,
> Sure the levels detected could be wrong when 'something' is detected but they cannot all have inaccurate zero reads surely?



A key problem that I see happening time and again is that many test kits including the API kit will give a zero reading if the actual measurement is off the scale.  This leads to people assuming their cycle is complete when their tank is actually deadly. 

It happens frequently when people dose too much ammonia for their fishless cycle.  The ammonia eventually gets processed but produces huge amounts of nitrite which quickly goes right off the API scale.  The API test will tell you nitrite is zero and people happily think their tank is cycled.  In reality there is so much nitrite that it will take a long time for the bacteria to catch up.


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## Andy D (27 Feb 2014)

This is very true you are right. When the nitrite is off the scale it reads zero. When you dilute 1ml tank water with 4ml tap water you then get a reading.


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## carpetmonster (27 Feb 2014)

daizeUK said:


> A key problem that I see happening time and again is that many test kits including the API kit will give a zero reading if the actual measurement is off the scale.  This leads to people assuming their cycle is complete when their tank is actually deadly.
> 
> It happens frequently when people dose too much ammonia for their fishless cycle.  The ammonia eventually gets processed but produces huge amounts of nitrite which quickly goes right off the API scale.  The API test will tell you nitrite is zero and people happily think their tank is cycled.  In reality there is so much nitrite that it will take a long time for the bacteria to catch up.


 
frst "proper" post from me....

this is easy enough to check. I'm getting very low ammnia readings just over a week into a fishless cycle, but with plants and some sponge material from more establishd tanks.

I repeatd the test, then added a drop of pure ammonia direct to the test tube and got an immediate, off-the-scale positive result.

this is an interestin debate, one I did not know anything about till I came here. On the marine forums I go on, there is generally a lotmore reliance on test kits. Ammonia is such a huge no-no in marines that people almost dont even bother testing for it - you go straight to nitrites and nitrates, wait for them to come down. Some of the marin kits have a good rep for reliability, with high sensitivity nitrate and phosphate kits. Their accuacy can also generally be backed up by observation; you know nutrients are low when corals have a pastel shade and you arent getting much algae growth. After a whle you can pretty accurately predict test results by how often you are having to clean the glass, or how many handfuls of macro algae you are pulling out of your sump each week.

I'm really interested to find out what the indicators are to look out for in a planted tank - is it the same, general health and vitality of occupants, cleanliness of the tank, algae growth?


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## ceg4048 (27 Feb 2014)

Hello,
           Freshwater test kits are completely unreliable and the nutrient content of the water has no effect on fauna. Ammonia and NO2 are toxic of course and can be issues. In a planted tank, the dangers to plants are all about LOW nutrient values. Algae appears under circumstances where the combination of lighting and low nutrient and/or CO2 levels.

If you want a quick guide to what each of the common algae forms are caused by, you can refer to James' Planted Tank - Algae Guide

Cheers,


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