# Aquarium Plant Food UK Closing Down



## johnny70




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## Courtneybst

I had a feeling this was happening for a long time. They weren't restocking many things and the selection was getting progressively more limited.

A shame to see them go! I've been buying from them for 10 years.


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## foxfish

It is a shame, I used to enjoy reading what the customs would write on my opened package!


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## John q

Absolutely gutted. Goes without saying this was my route into mixing my own ferts and always recommended this company to others starting out.

For anybody new to this that's panicking there are other options. You can get most of the dry salts here. Foil Pouches | APC Pure  Or here. Aquatic Plants Fertiliser | Aqua Plants Care

Only thing I'm not sure about is aquaplants csm+b mix, seems slightly different to APF's mix.

Ingredients:
Fe – 7,80%, Mn- 2,00%, B – 1,40%,
Zn- 0,40%, Cu – 0,10%, Mo – 0,06%
E 202 & E 300
EDTA Chelated


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## si walker

Thats a real shame. I watched the mixing video only last night for the first time.


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## Zeus.

That's a shame its closing as it was a great easy starting point for many folk for DIY ferts with their DIY fert starter kit 😭



John q said:


> Only thing I'm not sure about is aquaplants csm+b mix, seems slightly different to APF's mix.



And not cheap long term
For comparison -










Solufeed Sodium Free TEC™ would be a better match and work out much cheaper - one purchase should last a lifetime




APFUK use to get some of their salts from Solufeed so it wouldn't surprise me if APFUK trace 'is' Solufeed Sodium Free TEC™ relabelled and packaged


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## John q

Zeus. said:


> And not cheap long term
> For comparison


Was just searching for alternative trace mixes after I realised the csm mix I posted above is priced for a 10g pouch 😲 

Thanks for the link @Zeus.


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## hazeljane

Shame I’ve always got my ferts from them


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## Courtneybst

Zeus. said:


> Solufeed Sodium Free TEC™ would be a better match and work out much cheaper


Is this safe for fish? I'm not doubting you I've just never used it. If so I'll definitely be buying a box.


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## Hanuman

Courtneybst said:


> Is this safe for fish? I'm not doubting you I've just never used it. If so I'll definitely be buying a box.


Unless we missed something from the composition or that they are not mentioning something that is in the mix, it is safe.


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## Andy Taylor

I bought my first ever batch from them, but since reading posts on this forum it works out cheaper to buy individual ingredients elsewhere.


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## Zeus.

Andy Taylor said:


> I bought my first ever batch from them, but since reading posts on this forum it works out cheaper to buy individual ingredients elsewhere.


Found that myself, however it was good place for starting


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## robinj

Yara sells a micronutrients powder mix called  *YaraTera Tenso Cocktail* ( YaraTera TENSO COCKTAIL | Yara Deutschland ) , but not in the UK (dunno why). I use it long time instead of CSM+B which is unavailable on my market.
But Yara has branch in the UK - Fertilisers available in England | Yara UK.   One kilogram can cost maybe 40 GBP.





						Tenso Cocktail
					

Hi, my local EI powder supplier is moving from CSM+B to Tenso Cocktail. I am a bit confused, what are the benefits, if any, or should I just stick to CSM+B with EI?



					www.ukaps.org


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## Zeus.

robinj said:


> Yara sells a micronutrients powder mix called  *YaraTera Tenso Cocktail* ( YaraTera TENSO COCKTAIL | Yara Deutschland ) , but not in the UK (dunno why). I use it long time instead of CSM+B which is unavailable on my market.
> But Yara has branch in the UK - Fertilisers available in England | Yara UK.   One kilogram can cost maybe 40 GBP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tenso Cocktail
> 
> 
> Hi, my local EI powder supplier is moving from CSM+B to Tenso Cocktail. I am a bit confused, what are the benefits, if any, or should I just stick to CSM+B with EI?
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukaps.org


the comparison of the Yara Tera micro traces to APFUK trace mx


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## rross11

I began my venture into EI ferts with their starter kit. Will be a shame to see them go.


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## Whagwan

I've bought their starter kit for the new tank so a shame for them to go straight after I first buy!


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## Kerrycarp

Me too, I've just bought their starter kit after reading recommendations on this forum.
Bit of luck I'm married to a chemist who says she can get what I need at no cost!


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## foxfish

Hi Kerry, perhaps you could start a new sideline enterprise with the help of your wife!


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## John q

Zeus. said:


> Solufeed Sodium Free TEC™ would be a better match and work out much cheaper - one purchase should last a lifetime


Micro sourcing panic alleviated.... Thanks @Zeus.


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## Kerrycarp

I reckon you could be right, she is always pointing out the 'outrageous' price we pay for things that cost very little to produce.
Last week she made me 1 litre of bromothymol blue indicator and she says it cost pennies so why is it a fiver for a 25ml bottle?


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## Hufsa

Kerrycarp said:


> I reckon you could be right, she is always pointing out the 'outrageous' price we pay for things that cost very little to produce.
> Last week she made me 1 litre of bromothymol blue indicator and she says it cost pennies so why is it a fiver for a 25ml bottle?


Is your wife single?


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## Kerrycarp

😄😄😄 sometimes I wish she was but we won't go into that!


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Kerrycarp said:


> Last week she made me 1 litre of bromothymol blue indicator and she says it cost pennies so why is it a fiver for a 25ml bottle?


We have been <"down this route">, but I'm not sure any-one else has DIYed theirs. 

<"I'm not a CO2 user">, but if I was? I'd definitely be making my own.

cheers Darrel


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## plantnoobdude

dw1305 said:


> We have been <"down this route">, but I'm not sure any-one else has DIYed theirs.


have done it myself actually. works well and the best part is that you can make it to suit your co2 goals. if you want to aim for 15-20ppm then the drop chcker should be aound 3kh. as you've mentioned before, serial dillution is the best way to do this.


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## Kerrycarp

That's why I like this forum Darrel. All the answers are here, I just need to know where to look!


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## Wookii

John q said:


> Micro sourcing panic alleviated.... Thanks @Zeus.
> View attachment 185187



Make sure you keep the label for when you have to reorder in 10 years time! 😆


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Make sure you keep the label for when you have to reorder in 10 years time!


Yes it should keep you going for a while, ten or possibly a hundred years? Or maybe a business opportunity? selling 100grams at a time?

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Yes it should keep you going for a while, ten or possibly a hundred years? Or maybe a business opportunity? selling 100grams at a time?
> 
> cheers Darrel



Better yet, you could stick 3g in a 300ml of water and call it some thing catchy, like say, “Green Brighty”?


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## Cavalier_Steve

Oh no that’s a real shame, like others on this form I purchased the DIY kit the week, so to see them go is a real shame. ☹️ I wish both Jo & John all the best for the future.


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## AquariumAntics

Shame to see they have closed down, been buying from them for some years. 

I have been in somewhat of a panic state since finding this out as I am due to order some more trace mix soon and I cant find any other option as economical as APFUK trace, I have over 1500L of planted tanks all EI dosing but after reading here I guess I'll be giving the Solufeed TEC a try. 

Just wanted to ask, as I dont make up a solution but dry dose all of my tanks as per the Rotala butterfly calculator, do I treat the Solufeed TEC mix the same as APFUK in terms of dosing, ie dose the same amount and get similar values/concentrations in my tanks or do I need to adjust dosing any? Solufeed TEC isn't on the Rotala butterfly calculator and I'm not great with making calculations myself lol


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## Hanuman

AquariumAntics said:


> Shame to see they have closed down, been buying from them for some years.
> 
> I have been in somewhat of a panic state since finding this out as I am due to order some more trace mix soon and I cant find any other option as economical as APFUK trace, I have over 1500L of planted tanks all EI dosing but after reading here I guess I'll be giving the Solufeed TEC a try.
> 
> Just wanted to ask, as I dont make up a solution but dry dose all of my tanks as per the Rotala butterfly calculator, do I treat the Solufeed TEC mix the same as APFUK in terms of dosing, ie dose the same amount and get similar values/concentrations in my tanks or do I need to adjust dosing any? Solufeed TEC isn't on the Rotala butterfly calculator and I'm not great with making calculations myself lol


What was your dosing regime with APFUK? and your Fe target?


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## AquariumAntics

I'm dosing EI as per Rotala butterfly calculator, eg my biggest tank is approx 900L including sump volume so I would drop 2.2g of APFUK trace into the tank, which would give me 0.2ppm FE on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, water change on Sundays, macros on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays.


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## Hanuman

AquariumAntics said:


> I'm dosing EI as per Rotala butterfly calculator, eg my biggest tank is approx 900L including sump volume so I would drop 2.2g of APFUK trace into the tank, which would give me 0.2ppm FE on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, water change on Sundays, macros on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays.


Here you go. This is what you were dosing with APFUK. Look at the Dry Dosing column.




This is what you would need to dose with Solufeed. Look at the Dry Dosing column.



Divide that by 3 if you want to dose 3x a week.

If you want to tweak stuff you can download the calculator. It's in my signature.


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## AquariumAntics

Hanuman said:


> Here you go. This is what you were dosing with APFUK. Look at the Dry Dosing column.
> View attachment 186421
> 
> This is what you would need to dose with Solufeed. Look at the Dry Dosing column.
> View attachment 186420
> Divide that by 3 if you want to dose 3x a week.
> 
> If you want to tweak stuff you can download the calculator. It's in my signature.


Thank you, I notice that is with TEC-SF that has MG included which I dont plan to use, I will continue to dose magnesium sulphate for Mg so I planned to use the regular sodium free TEC, non SF..

I did try to use that calculator but its far too advanced for me sorry, I may as well be looking at the controls of a Boeing 747 lol also every drop down box to choose various options just says err;509


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## Hanuman

AquariumAntics said:


> Thank you, I notice that is with TEC-SF that has MG included which I dont plan to use, I will continue to dose magnesium sulphate for Mg so I planned to use the regular sodium free TEC, non SF..



There you go.






AquariumAntics said:


> every drop down box to choose various options just says err;509


With what version of Excel are you trying to open the file ?


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## AquariumAntics

Hanuman said:


> There you go.
> View attachment 186422


Brilliant, thanks again! So it seems Solufeed TEC is more or less the same and I can continue to use the same dose as APFUK trace.



Hanuman said:


> With what version of Excel are you trying to open the file ?


Ah! I dont have Excel on my PC, its opening with Open Office.


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## Hanuman

AquariumAntics said:


> Brilliant, thanks again! So it seems Solufeed TEC is more or less the same and I can continue to use the same dose as APFUK trace.


Yes pretty close the same amount.



AquariumAntics said:


> Ah! I dont have Excel on my PC, its opening with Open Office.


I see. Yeah the calculator is only compatible with Excel unfortunately.


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## AquariumAntics

Hanuman said:


> Yes pretty close the same amount.
> 
> 
> I see. Yeah the calculator is only compatible with Excel unfortunately.


Thanks for your help, thats eased my mind lots and now ordered 1kg of Solufeed TEC


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## Regent

Hanuman said:


> Yes pretty close the same amount.
> 
> 
> I see. Yeah the calculator is only compatible with Excel unfortunately.


It works well in live drive/excel online though which is free!


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## NorthernDan

With APFUK closing down is there anywhere else a dumbo like me can get dry ferts that give you easy to follow instructions? I'm not confident/knowledgeable enough to go with some of the options in this thread. I kinda just need something that says mix x amount with water and dose x amount per litre of aquarium water....
Cheers


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## Wookii

You can continue to follow the APFUK recipe if you wish, and just source the salts from elsewhere:

Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)

Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)

All those links are for APC Pure who I know have good products and service, but you can probably find them cheaper on eBay, and there will also be options from Amazon or other online sellers.


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## ian_m

Any thoughts on micro suppliers ?

Managed to get an order in of macro's to Aquarium Plant Food before they closed, but no micro's in stock.


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## dw1305

Hi all,


ian_m said:


> Any thoughts on micro suppliers ?


<"Solufeed">? Solufeed Sodium Free TEC is £14.99 a kilo.

<"Technical data sheet">.

cheers Darrel
​


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## John q

ian_m said:


> Any thoughts on micro suppliers ?


Apfuk is still for sale on ebay if you want the same packaging.
I opted for the one in darrels link above, for the extra £3.50 you get an extra 750g.









						Aquarium Plant Food UK Original EI Trace REFILL Aquarium Plants -- Fertiliser   | eBay
					

Using dry salts to feed your plants is cheap. How many bottles will one APFUK Ei kit produce?. Aquarium Plant Food UK Original Ei Trace REFILL. All the Ei Dry Salts are supplied in re-sealable foil bags for maximum freshness.



					www.ebay.co.uk


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## Yugang

johnny70 said:


> View attachment 184325


Have they been reading our lean dosing thread?


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## ian_m

dw1305 said:


> <"Solufeed">? Solufeed Sodium Free TEC is £14.99 a kilo.
> 
> cheers Darrel
> ​


Ta. 

I have used 1.5Kg of Aquarium Plant Food chelated traces in the last 10 years of ordering.  Here is to the next 10 years supply !


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## NorthernDan

Wookii said:


> You can continue to follow the APFUK recipe if you wish, and just source the salts from elsewhere:
> 
> Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)
> 
> Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
> 
> Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
> 
> All those links are for APC Pure who I know have good products and service, but you can probably find them cheaper on eBay, and there will also be options from Amazon or other online sellers.


Thanks.
I took a quick screenshot of the APFUK instructions just to make it easy for myself and have managed to source the salts.

What I am having trouble with is the micros.  It seems like the Solufeed is mostly recommended on here as best bang for buck. Is it as simple as mixing the Solufeed at the same amount as the chelated trace mix from APFUK (1tsp per 500ml), or would there be a different ratio for Solufeed to get a APFUK equivalent fertilizer? 
Thanks


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## Wookii

NorthernDan said:


> Thanks.
> I took a quick screenshot of the APFUK instructions just to make it easy for myself and have managed to source the salts.
> 
> What I am having trouble with is the micros.  It seems like the Solufeed is mostly recommended on here as best bang for buck. Is it as simple as mixing the Solufeed at the same amount as the chelated trace mix from APFUK (1tsp per 500ml), or would there be a different ratio for Solufeed to get a APFUK equivalent fertilizer?
> Thanks



Yes, just use it in the same way. The APFUK micros are likely rebadged Solufeed anyway,


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> The APFUK micros are likely rebadged Solufeed anyway,


They definitely will be a commercial micro-element mix rebranded. 

cheers Darrel


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## ScapingScotsman

This is such a shame, I've seen apfuk going for years, I wish John all the best in future. 
Im a chemist at bonnymans, working with ALL chemicals, I have all the necessary dry powders a plenty (not for resale on the site) as we have pallets full of everything, I can work out cost price if anyone wanted any..... No profit just the cost (purchase price) for us? Or I could pass the info onto a ukaps sponsor?


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## Courtneybst

ScapingScotsman said:


> This is such a shame, I've seen apfuk going for years, I wish John all the best in future.
> Im a chemist at bonnymans, working with ALL chemicals, I have all the necessary dry powders a plenty (not for resale on the site) as we have pallets full of everything, I can work out cost price if anyone wanted any..... No profit just the cost (purchase price) for us? Or I could pass the info onto a ukaps sponsor?


I think this is a great idea


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## Wookii

ScapingScotsman said:


> This is such a shame, I've seen apfuk going for years, I wish John all the best in future.
> Im a chemist at bonnymans, working with ALL chemicals, I have all the necessary dry powders a plenty (not for resale on the site) as we have pallets full of everything, I can work out cost price if anyone wanted any..... No profit just the cost (purchase price) for us? Or I could pass the info onto a ukaps sponsor?



Perhaps it could be UKAPS administered and branded somehow with the profits going to the forum?


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## Courtneybst

Wookii said:


> Perhaps it could be UKAPS administered and branded somehow with the profits going to the forum?


This!


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## ScapingScotsman

Wookii said:


> Perhaps it could be UKAPS administered and branded somehow with the profits going to the forum?


That sounds like a fantastic idea. I can do branding anyway should the need be for it, but very happy to help the forum out in anyway and everyone along with it. 
Any powders, glutaraldehyde etc. 
Im in no way advertising to sell on my part but I know how hard it can be or expensive to purchase this stuff. When I fact its very very cheap to buy at cost and In monstrous volume


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Perhaps it could be UKAPS administered and branded somehow with the profits going to the forum?


If we did want to go down that route the easiest option would be to rebrand an existing formulation. I would have some ethical issues with this. We (semi-seriously) <"looked at a UKAPS substrate a few years ago">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> If we did want to go down that route the easiest option would be to rebrand an existing formulation. I would have some ethical issues with this. We (semi-seriously) <"looked at a UKAPS substrate a few years ago">.
> 
> cheers Darrel



These would be raw salts Darrel (apart from the micro mix) - so not rebranding as such on those. Or is it the micros you are referring to?  If so, there would be no harm in including the actual manufacturer details on the front of the micro mix label too I guess?

The reality with this is the initial raw salts starter pack with the bottle, measuring spoons and straight forward mixing and dosing instructions that APFUK sold, has proved invaluable to hundreds or new planted tank owners making the move from pre-mixed expensive water to mixing their own ferts with dry salts. However once they've made the jump to dry salts, I'd wager most people go on to replenish their salt supplies from other cheaper suppliers. 

As such the starter pack is a great gateway product to help new planted tank owners, but not a great business model for ongoing business - presumably a factor leading the John closing down APFUK.

That's why I figured a starter pack offered by UKAPS would fit fairly neatly as a more charitable affair, which would help out new members whilst making a few quid for the forum too.


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## dw1305

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> These would be raw salts Darrel (apart from the micro mix) - so not rebranding as such on those.


I understand that, it is not the technical difficulties that concern me. I've often made up <"plant nutrient solutions, from scratch">, in the past. 

You could do it as a DIY activity, but as soon as it becomes a commercial operation things change.

The issue would be that, using salts, would entail a lot of paperwork and storage issues  (KNO3 is an explosive etc.), mixing and packaging would need to be done in a premise with extraction, a flammables vault, a poisons cupboard etc. Costs would soon mount up.

As an example of what I mean, <"I have a colleague"> who looks at  pharmaceutical usages for food products (anthocyanin in Cranberries etc.). Developing a new drug is incredibly expensive, but a food product has already passed a  lot of those regulatory requirements.

That would be the advantage of re-branding an existing fertiliser mix, it is already a "food product".   

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> The reality with this is the initial raw salts starter pack with the bottle, measuring spoons and straight forward mixing and dosing instructions that APFUK sold, has proved invaluable to hundreds or new planted tank owners making the move from pre-mixed expensive water to mixing their own ferts with dry salts. However once they've made the jump to dry salts, I'd wager most people go on to replenish their salt supplies from other cheaper suppliers.


I'd guess that that is the issue, you really need to draw in new customers all the time, and you are talking about  a small pool of possible consumers. 

That is actually one of the ethical issues I have as well. Once some-one knows <"_an ion is an ion is an ion__"> _you are reliant on either persuading them that "_ease of use"_ makes it worth paying a premium, or finding a celebrity endorsement that convinces people that your product offers some advantage over other non (or differently endorsed) products. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I understand that, it is not the technical difficulties that concern me. I've often made up <"plant nutrients, from scratch">, in the past.
> 
> You could do it as a DIY activity, but as soon as it becomes a commercial operation things change.
> 
> The issue would be that, using salts, would entail a lot of paperwork and storage issues  (KNO3 is an explosive etc.), mixing and packaging would need to be done in a premise with extraction, a flammables vault, a poisons cupboard etc. Costs would soon mount up.
> 
> As an example of what I mean, <"I have a colleague"> who looks at  pharmaceutical usages for food products (anthocyanin in Cranberries etc.). Developing a new drug is incredibly expensive, but a food product has already passed a  lot of those regulatory requirements.
> 
> That would be the advantage of re-branding an existing fertiliser mix, it is already a "food product".
> 
> cheers Darrel



Ah ok, fair enough, I didn't realise there was a lot of paperwork associated with selling the salts. 

I understand the point on the repackaging and the H & S in handling salts, but I had assumed here that @ScapingScotsman 's company would be sending everything pre-packed and labelled in sealed foil packets, so the operator on the UKAPS side would just put a bag of each salt type (KNO3, MgSO4 and KHPO4) in a shipping box with the bottles and spoons, and ship onwards. No other 'mixing' would be required. 

I don't think there would be any point in re-branding a pre-mixed fertilizer - if there was a suitable one available that can be kept in a solution and meets EI target, we could just point new users to buy that?


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## dw1305

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> I understand the point on the repackaging and the H & S in handling salts, but I had assumed here that @ScapingScotsman 's company would be sending everything pre-packed and labelled in sealed foil packets, so the operator on the UKAPS side would just put a bag of each salt type (KNO3, MgSO4 and KHPO4) in a shipping box with the bottles and spoons, and ship onwards. No other 'mixing' would be required.


That would work.


Wookii said:


> I don't think there would be any point in re-branding a pre-mixed fertilizer - if there was a suitable one available that can be kept in a solution and meets EI target, we could just point new users to buy that?


Yes, and when you factor in that we've ( I'm taking no responsibility for this, blame lies entirely @Zeus.  & @Hanuman's door) have already muddied the water by giving away <"*all of our* *commercial secrets*"> in <"their spreadsheet">, it becomes more difficult again.

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

dw1305 said:


> That is actually one of the ethical issues I have as well. Once some-one knows <"_an ion is an ion is an ion__"> _you are reliant on either persuading them that "_ease of use"_ makes it worth paying a premium, or finding a celebrity endorsement that convinces people that your product offers some advantage over other non (or differently endorsed) products.



I don't think we're suggesting being the next Tropica or ADA here, it was just an idea to help new starters to the hobby. Try directing a new starter who has never even heard of a dry fertiliser salt to a website and telling them they need to buy some potassium nitrate, some mono-potassium phosphate and some magnesium sulphate, and most are going to be so bamboozled they're simply not going to bother, and instead buy another bottle of expensive water.

Charging £20 for a pre-packaged set of salts with the kit necessary to mix it as APFUK did is a bargain in my opinion given it gives you tens of litres of mix to make up and last years. I don't really see the ethical issue to be honest - in fact it works in the opposite way, and stops people being ripped off by the mainstream expensive waters.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 


Wookii said:


> Try directing a new starter who has never even heard of a dry fertiliser salt to a website and telling them they need to buy some potassium nitrate, some mono-potassium phosphate and some magnesium sulphate, and most are going to be so bamboozled they're simply not going to bother


Agreed and that is why I'd point them at <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> or similar.


Wookii said:


> Charging £20 for a pre-packaged set of salts with the kit necessary to mix it as APFUK did is a bargain in my opinion given it gives you tens of litres of mix to make up and last years. I don't really see the ethical issue to be honest - in fact it works in the opposite way, and stops people being ripped off by the mainstream expensive waters.


I'd agree again,  I haven't got much time for the competitors in the "World's most expensive water" contest. I'm just not sure it is a commercially viable option and whether the present economic climate makes it <"more or less viable">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

dw1305 said:


> Agreed and that is why I'd point them at <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> or similar.



Is that product suitable for making up as a stable solution and dosing over a period of, say, 2-4 months? Would you be happy recommending that product to beginners given the Urea content?

If 'yes' to both, that's enough for me, and I'll happily recommend the same product. My only skin in the game is to have a simple location to direct someone for cheap reliable safe ferts - it always used to be the APFUK starter kit, but we don't have that anymore and so need a good alternative.



dw1305 said:


> I'm just not sure it is a commercially viable option and whether the present economic climate makes it <"more or less viable">.



I don't think it is a commercially viable option, that's why no-one else is doing  it - though I'm surprised Aquasplantcareuk hasn't thrown together a starter kit given they sell much of the stuff already - and in part why I suggested it might be better on a 'charitable' basis for the joint benefit of newbies and UKAPS - it just needs someone (that isn't me) willing to administer it for free 😂


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## Hanuman

Wookii said:


> it just needs someone (that isn't me) willing to administer it for free 😂


Best sentence of the thread.


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## dw1305

Hi all,


Wookii said:


> Would you be happy recommending that product to beginners given the Urea content?


No, probably not. I'd guess that is one of the reasons why those vendors who sell products containing  ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) or urea (CO(NH2)2) produce an incredibly dilute mix. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wookii

Hanuman said:


> Best sentence of the thread.



You get to cop out as you're so damn far away, so relax @Hanuman 😂


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## Hanuman

dw1305 said:


> I'm taking no responsibility for this, blame lies entirely @Zeus. & @Hanuman's door)


Reminds me an update is on the way.. Minor tweaks specially to Fe gluconate.


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## ScapingScotsman

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I understand that, it is not the technical difficulties that concern me. I've often made up <"plant nutrient solutions, from scratch">, in the past.
> 
> You could do it as a DIY activity, but as soon as it becomes a commercial operation things change.
> 
> The issue would be that, using salts, would entail a lot of paperwork and storage issues  (KNO3 is an explosive etc.), mixing and packaging would need to be done in a premise with extraction, a flammables vault, a poisons cupboard etc. Costs would soon mount up.
> 
> As an example of what I mean, <"I have a colleague"> who looks at  pharmaceutical usages for food products (anthocyanin in Cranberries etc.). Developing a new drug is incredibly expensive, but a food product has already passed a  lot of those regulatory requirements.
> 
> That would be the advantage of re-branding an existing fertiliser mix, it is already a "food product".
> 
> cheers Darrel


This is something I'd be more than happy to do here at work Darrell? I handle some insanely unstable chemicals daily, and always testing in my lab etc. 
We are licensed for all and every kind of chemical, storage and handling. I can always make up a batch of 1kg pouches and or 500g pouches, label the necessary warnings on the back as we do with everything, and just a case of slapping a ukaps label on the front. It's cheap enough to send as we have accounts with all couriers. 

I can also always make a heavily concentrated npk, and trace and make x amount of stock for people so they're not worried about buying powders.


----------



## Chrispowell

ScapingScotsman said:


> This is something I'd be more than happy to do here at work Darrell? I handle some insanely unstable chemicals daily, and always testing in my lab etc.
> We are licensed for all and every kind of chemical, storage and handling. I can always make up a batch of 1kg pouches and or 500g pouches, label the necessary warnings on the back as we do with everything, and just a case of slapping a ukaps label on the front. It's cheap enough to send as we have accounts with all couriers.
> 
> I can also always make a heavily concentrated npk, and trace and make x amount of stock for people so they're not worried about buying powders.


I would get one straight away 


Chris


----------



## John q

ScapingScotsman said:


> This is something I'd be more than happy to do here at work Darrell?



So where's the impasse here... S scot supplies chemicals at cost to ukaps members, adds a service charge which is donated to ukaps. 👍

Ukaps can't take on this role, as Darrel mentioned, far to much red tape.

@ScapingScotsman  if you need a middle man to assist in this I'd be  happy to help. 😀


----------



## Hanuman

Wookii said:


> it just needs someone (that isn't me) willing to administer it for free 😂





ScapingScotsman said:


> This is something I'd be more than happy to do here at work Darrell


Someone heard you @Wookii. In the meantime I am so happy to be so far away....


----------



## Wookii

John q said:


> So where's the impasse here...


I think the impasse was this:


John q said:


> @ScapingScotsman  if you need a middle man to assist in this I'd be  happy to help. 😀


 . . . and you've just bridged it John! 👏👍

@John q  and @ScapingScotsman - Once you've got all your joint ducks in a row, it might be worth setting up a new thread in the ferts section of the forum, where you can list the pack contents and pricing,  and ask @LondonDragon to make it a sticky?


----------



## John q

@ScapingScotsman 
Drop me a pm mate and let me know which areas you need assistance with, hopefully then we can try and flesh out the details.


----------



## ScapingScotsman

Wookii said:


> I think the impasse was this:
> 
> . . . and you've just bridged it John! 👏👍
> 
> @John q  and @ScapingScotsman - Once you've got all your joint ducks in a row, it might be worth setting up a new thread in the ferts section of the forum, where you can list the pack contents and pricing,  and ask @LondonDragon to make it a sticky?


Would this be OK to go ahead with @LondonDragon ? Purely for ukaps members only initially. I can make up the relevant size packs, work out an identical wee trace mix, and then offer as a complete starter package or just individual foil packs. The difference between the cost and SMALL sale price would then all be donated to ukaps each month? Or I work out what any member pays, and ask that they donate that difference to ukaps then purchase the salts? 
There won't ever be a shortage, we have 27 barrels of KNO3 alone at 22kgs each so its not going anywhere soon. If there could be a pm started with the relevant ukaps founders and myself and John q if necessary we could discuss this going forwards? Or I could set up a small brand solely for the fertilisers and bottles for all the members and a basic website? I wouldn't offer anything to anyone unless founders are happy to do so.


----------



## gamersinc

Any update on this whether UKAPS going ahead with their own fert mix. Been using APFUK EI ferts and it is close to finishing and realised that they have shut down and cant buy anymore.


----------



## John q

gamersinc said:


> Any update on this whether UKAPS going ahead with their own fert mix


From what I can gather "guessing words into the horses mouth" it was unfeasible to offer these salts at the current wholesale price levels, and compete, or even break even at the price apfuk were selling them for. 
For me it would have been a worthwhile venture , I tried to embrace it... possibly think geopolitical nonsense got in the way.


----------



## Courtneybst

John q said:


> From what I can gather "guessing words into the horses mouth" it was unfeasible to offer these salts at the current wholesale price levels, and compete, or even break even at the price apfuk were selling them for.
> For me it would have been a worthwhile venture , I tried to embrace it... possibly think geopolitical nonsense got in the way.


To be honest, I think I would pay a slight premium just to get them from one place. Now that APFUK has dissolved, I'm having to source salts from here and hither, and I'm paying the premium anyway in delivery fees! 

Although I use them, I find Aqua plants care to be unpredictable in stocking and they're not all that cheap. 

Trace elements are another thing I haven't had to think about yet as I still have APFUK stock but it will run out eventually...

This is not a complaint btw, just a matter of fact lol.


----------



## Myrtle

The faff of trying to source everything is why I've stuck to pre-mixed. I was just considering dry salts when they shut so now it's too complicated to do anything else


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Courtneybst said:


> Trace elements are another thing I haven't had to think about yet as I still have APFUK stock but it will run out eventually...





gamersinc said:


> Been using APFUK EI ferts and it is close to finishing and realised that they have shut down and cant buy anymore.


I'd probably try Solufeed in both cases.  If you don't mind the urea (CO(NH2)2) content then the <"Solufeed  2 : 1 : 4 mix"> should do and they also sell <"trace nutrients"> mixes.  

This the nutrient breakdown for <"the 2 : 1 :  4 mix"> and the <"calculation for 10 ppm NO3 for a 180 litre tank">.







> _I'll use nitrate (NO3-) again as my target nutrient, but I'll go for 10 ppm NO3-, rather than 10 ppm N (~44 ppm NO3-). So the only differences are tank volume and nutrient dosing level. I still assume that all the nitrogen is as NO3._
> 
> _The tank is a nominal *180* litres and_
> _I want *10 ppm NO3*_
> _Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 is *15% nitrogen* (N)._
> _There are 1000 mg in a gram, so 1 gram of Solufeed contains *0.15g or 150 mg N, "mg / L" and "ppm" are equivalents.*_
> _150 / 180 = *0.83 ppm N in 180 litres. *To convert from N to NO3 we multiply by 4.43._
> _*0.83 x 4.43 = 3.69, *so 1 gram of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 supplies 3.69 ppm NO3_
> _3.69 * 2.71 = 10 ppm_
> _*You need to add 2.7g of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 to 180 litres to give 10 ppm NO3.*_


cheers Darrel


----------



## Tim Harrison

dw1305 said:


> I'd probably try Solufeed in both cases.


Ordered mine last night. Still only £13.99 for a 1Kg pack, inc delivery.


----------



## John q

Myrtle said:


> now it's too complicated to do anything else


Send me a pm mate 😀



dw1305 said:


> I'd probably try Solufeed in both cases. If you don't mind the urea (CO(NH2)2) content then the <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 mix"> should do


Definitely the kiss option 👍


----------



## Zeus.

dw1305 said:


> I'd probably try Solufeed in both cases. If you don't mind the urea (CO(NH2)2) content then the <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 mix"> should do and they also sell <"trace nutrients"> mixes.


I will see about getting the product added to The IFC calculator, it may need a little thought as we haven't added a AIO dry salt before 🤓


----------



## plantnoobdude

just a warning for anyone buying solufeed. You may need to supplement it with additional iron and manganese unless your water is very soft.
For 30ppm No3 the product delivers only 0.0875ppm Fe. This will be fine if you don’t have much calcium/ co3 , but otherwise, I fear you may have to compliment it with more iron.


----------



## Zeus.

plantnoobdude said:


> just a warning for anyone buying solufeed. You may need to supplement it with additional iron and manganese unless your water is very soft.
> For 30ppm No3 the product delivers only 0.0875ppm Fe.


We will bear this in mind when integrating it into the IFC Calculator, so we can have the full range of other trace salts to use as well. More to think about 🤣


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


plantnoobdude said:


> You may need to supplement it with additional iron and manganese unless your water is very soft.
> For 30ppm No3 the product delivers only 0.0875ppm Fe.


I think I actually may <"have seen this"> without really twigging* what was happening. 

Initially I got a bit of a growth spurt (below), but subsequently the new leaves paled slightly.


> .........I've got tanks with a <"bit of green filamentous algae at the moment">, which is unusual for me. I'm putting it down to swapping over to <"Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4"> from <"Miracle- Gro">, partially because my Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_) (below) is <"greener than normal"> and I haven't changed anything else. .........








 I didn't think too much more about it , but since then I've carried on with the <"hybrid Duckweed Index"> approach (that I used when I was using the Miracle-Gro) and the Frogbit plants look back to healthy again.
* for @Hufsa 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Andy Taylor

Not had any issues with Solufeed TEC if that's any help?


----------



## Phil Govier

_I'll use nitrate (NO3-) again as my target nutrient, but I'll go for 10 ppm NO3-, rather than 10 ppm N (~44 ppm NO3-). So the only differences are tank volume and nutrient dosing level. I still assume that all the nitrogen is as NO3._

_The tank is a nominal *180* litres and_
_I want *10 ppm NO3*_
_Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 is *15% nitrogen* (N)._
_There are 1000 mg in a gram, so 1 gram of Solufeed contains *0.15g or 150 mg N, "mg / L" and "ppm" are equivalents.*_
_150 / 180 = *0.83 ppm N in 180 litres. *To convert from N to NO3 we multiply by 4.43._
_*0.83 x 4.43 = 3.69, *so 1 gram of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 supplies 3.69 ppm NO3_
_3.69 * 2.71 = 10 ppm_
_*You need to add 2.7g of Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 to 180 litres to give 10 ppm NO3.*_

_*Sorry for stupid question (also for my inability to establish how to select quotes correctly hence the copy/paste above)  but I assume the adding of 2.7g of Solufeed 2:1:4  as outlined above is every other day (excluding the rest days etc) as per the original EI method/ schedule? 

I must admit to being confused as I seem to recall reading in this thread that 1kg would last "decades"but by my reckoning using 2.7g per dose gives 370 days  of use, so assuming dosing twice/3 times per weeks the 1kg will last  less than 3 years. Have I missed the obvious and embarrassed myself?

Phil*_


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


Phil Govier said:


> I must admit to being confused as I seem to recall reading in this thread that 1kg would last "decades"but by my reckoning using 2.7g per dose gives 370 days of use, so assuming dosing twice/3 times per weeks the 1kg will last less than 3 years. Have I missed the obvious and embarrassed myself?


No, not at all. We are just in <"_apples and pears_"> territory.

The  <"Sodium free TEC"> is a micro-nutrients mix and the "2 : 1 : 4"  a <"complete fertilisers mix">. So <"a seasonal analogy"> would be that the TEC mix  is just the Brussel Sprouts, but the  2 : 1 : 4 mix is the Turkey and all the trimmings. There was nothing special about "10 ppm NO3" either, it just makes the <"calculations easier">, and the same with the Solufeed 2 : 1 : 4 formulation, it was just an easily obtainable hydroponics mix, that didn't include any ammonia (NH3/NH4+) 


Phil Govier said:


> but I assume the adding of 2.7g of Solufeed 2:1:4 as outlined above is every other day (excluding the rest days etc) as per the original EI method/ schedule?


I'm not an EI user (I use the <"Duckweed Index">), but I think that would be about right.


dw1305 said:


> Both <"Estimative"> and <"Duckweed"> indices, even though they are very different in concept, and were developed entirely independently, were designed to do away with the need for accurate water testing. This was just a reflection <"of the difficulties involved"> with accurate water testing.
> 
> Both Tom Barr (@plantbrain ) and myself <"worked in situations"> where we had access to analytical equipment, and could get accurate values for many water parameters, but we recognised that methods <"that didn't rely on water testing"> were more likely to <"provide successful solutions"> in the long run.
> 
> It would be fair to say that Tom myself, even though we are both loosely Plant Scientists, have <"very different approaches"> to our jobs.


You could buy all the <"micronutrients as separate salts"> (like @Happi and @X3NiTH have done), but most people are just going to buy a mix, it is easier and less error prone
<"The scientific background to the  "Leaf Colour Chart"">.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Happi

*31.545 Gram Solufeed 2:1:4 mixed in 500 ml solution, 20 ml per 50 gallon (Micors/Fe/Macros)*

N         1  (Contain Urea-N and NO3-N)
P         0.2
K        1.766
Fe      0.01166
Mn    0.004
B        0.0014
Cu     0.000666
Zn     0.005
Mg    0.1266
Mo    0.000333

*5.721 gram **Solufeed Sodium Free TEC** Mixed in 500 ml, 20 ml per 50 gallon (Micros/Fe)*

Fe    0.1
Mn    0.02418
B    0.0111
Cu    0.00278
Zn    0.014
Mo    0.001813

Above is just to give you an Idea how it would look like in ppm. you can further enhance this if you feel that the Micros/Fe is low in Solufeed 2:1:4 by combning it with Solufeed Sodium Free TEC

*500 ml solution, 20 ml per 50 gallon 
Add 31.545 Gram Solufeed 2:1:4 
Add 5.721 gram **Solufeed Sodium Free TEC*

N    1   (Urea-N 0.466 ppm, NO3-N 0.54 ppm) this adds about 2.4 ppm NO3, Rest of the N is from Urea
P    0.2
K    1.766
Fe       0.11166
Mn    0.02818
Cu     0.003446
B        0.0125
Zn     0.019
Mo    0.002146
Mg     0.1266

*if one were to  dose this 3x a week:*

N    3  (1.4 Urea-N, 1.62 NO3-N) this will add 7.18 ppm NO3, Rest of the N from Urea
P    0.6
K    5.3
Fe       0.335
Mn    0.08454
Cu     0.01
B        0.0375
Zn     0.057
Mo    0.006438
Mg     0.38


----------



## Zeus.

Based on 



Two different dosing dry salts regimes *1g/100L* and *2.7/180L*





If any one is after a different dry dosing regime just ask/pm  - easy to modify

(N.B. @Happi has given the NPK ppms values and I have given the NO3: PO4:K ppms so the ratios look different.  NPK  ppms are used/popular in USA and in Europe many prefer to have the  NO3: PO4:K ppms. When converted they are the same they just look different as one uses elements and the other uses elements and compounds which have different molecular weights so it can look confusing/misleading )


----------



## Mattant1984

Hi guys, So ive been using the solufeed 2:1:4 for the last couple of months as directed by @dw1305 (many thanks darrel) and I must say my plants seem to be doing well with a lot of good growth.



My tank is 700 litres and I have been dosing 6g 3 times a week and so far so good.



I've seen comments in this thread about urea, could someone please advise what this is and why it could possibly be an issue having this in a fert?


----------



## Zeus.

Mattant1984 said:


> My tank is 700 litres and I have been dosing 6g 3 times a week and so far so good.


----------



## Mattant1984

Zeus. said:


> ￼
> 
> Thanks @Zeus 👍🏼


----------



## Mattant1984

Many thanks @Zeus. So would you say that gives me the correct amounts or would anything else need to be added?


----------



## Zeus.

Mattant1984 said:


> So would you say that gives me the correct amounts or would anything else need to be added?


Well if all your plants are healthy, then yes its enough. If plants are not healthy then you need more.

Is it 'Classic Full EI dosing' ( nutrients in abundance)- No
I was just doing a 'Goal seek' for another member - if we aim for a 0.5ppm Fe or 30ppm NO3 and full EI dosing in a 60 litre tank with high light and CO2



With Solufeeds 2:1:4 alone you will not be able to get the 'Classic Full EI weekly dose' unless you aim for 0.5ppm Fe but then your NO3 PO4 and K would be in plentlyful abundance or even excessive
There has been much debate about the 'need' for Full EI dosing and the answer varies depending on who you ask. Full EI dosing is just about dosing in abundance and it is a guide and with experience many folk find other fert mixes/ppms that also work well for them. So its not black and white there are many shades of grey and every tanks needs is different.

If I was aiming at Full EI dosing I would use Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Sodium Free TEC-SF and add the other salts I needed and make Macro and Micro solutions. With a very big tank  around 1000L or above I wold be tempted to Dry dose salts.

I think Solufeeds 2:1:4 is a great AIO salt that IMO suits low tech tanks best, being able to dose once a week easy


----------



## Mattant1984

Zeus. said:


> Well if all your plants are healthy, then yes its enough. If plants are not healthy then you need more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it 'Classic Full EI dosing' ( nutrients in abundance)- No
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just doing a 'Goal seek' for another member - if we aim for a 0.5ppm Fe or 30ppm NO3 and full EI dosing in a 60 litre tank with high light and CO2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ￼
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Solufeeds 2:1:4 alone you will not be able to get the 'Classic Full EI weekly dose' unless you aim for 0.5ppm Fe but then your NO3 PO4 and K would be in plentlyful abundance or even excessive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There has been much debate about the 'need' for Full EI dosing and the answer varies depending on who you ask. Full EI dosing is just about dosing in abundance and it is a guide and with experience many folk find other fert mixes/ppms that also work well for them. So its not black and white there are many shades of grey and every tanks needs is different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was aiming at Full EI dosing I would use Solufeed Sodium Free TEC or Solufeed Sodium Free TEC-SF and add the other salts I needed and make Macro and Micro solutions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Solufeeds 2:1:4 is a great AIO salt that IMO suits low tech tanks best, being able to fose once a wek easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for reply @Zeus your a fountain of knowledge 😀  so my tank is low tech with no C02 and basic lights. I think I will carry on with dosing what I currently am as plants are growing and seem healthy the only thing I'm getting at the moment is a bit or thread algae which I can't seem to shift??


----------



## Happi

Mattant1984 said:


> I've seen comments in this thread about urea, could someone please advise what this is and why it could possibly be an issue having this in a fert?


Edward (PPS Pro) Urea Information

discussion also took place here as well 

we still had mixed opinions about adding Nickel to the Micro Solution to improve the Urea uptake, so we ended up adding it into some of our recipes. hope this helps.


----------



## Mattant1984

Happi said:


> Edward (PPS Pro) Urea Information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> discussion also took place here as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we still had mixed opinions about adding Nickel to the Micro Solution to improve the Urea uptake, so we ended up adding it into some of our recipes.



Thanks for your reply I'll have a read 👍🏼👍🏼


Happi said:


> hope this helps.


----------



## Phil Govier

@dw1305 - Thanks Darrel for your reply - really appreciated
@Happi - you must be a mind reader as my next question to the forum was going to be how to calculate the mix for the 500ml bottles that I use(d) with the EI dosing. You have given me the information that I would just not have been able to work out by myself so I am extremely grateful. 

I will have to try and use/understand the ferts calculator that I have seen Zeus/Happi use to assist members on numerous occasions. Chemistry never has (and never will be I guess) be my forte so Zeus /Happi are great assets to have available in times of confusion

Many thanks to all other contributors as well
Thank again all for your willingness to share your knowledge
Phil


----------



## dw1305

Hi all, 


Happi said:


> we still had mixed opinions about adding Nickel to the Micro Solution to improve the Urea uptake


I'd guess that any-one <"who uses tap"> (or rain) water will not need a nickel (Ni) supplement. I also think that organisms with the <"urease enzyme"> will have pretty efficient mechanisms for sequestering any nickel ions (Ni++).

cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


Happi said:


> Edward (PPS Pro) Urea Information
> 
> discussion also took place here as well


Thank you for those. The <"PlantedTank"> link is particularly interesting, and I wish I'd thought of this as a strap line.


> *Disclaimer:*_ I am not an expert in the field, have absolutely no authoritative standing in the community and ugly tanks with dying fish and plants. Please take what is written below with a bottle of brine and learn me. I simply read, do bad math and regurgitate information in an extremely verbose manner...........*SOURCES: *Edward, Happi, Thomas Barr, James et al on various forums, newsletters and things like that. Other places and people that I can’t remember. Apologies to the respective parties from whom everything (and I mean every freaking thing) above was stolen. Please don’t sue._


cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'd guess that any-one <"who uses tap"> (or rain) water will not need a nickel (Ni) supplement. I also think that organisms with the <"urease enzyme"> will have pretty efficient mechanisms for sequestering any nickel ions (Ni++).
> 
> cheers Darrel


I did the maths based on my water companies water report and it was at a very acceptable Ni level with a water change. I did dose Ni for a short time with my 500l tank and did not notice any improvement in the plants so I concluded Ni levels was fine


----------



## Happi

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'd guess that any-one <"who uses tap"> (or rain) water will not need a nickel (Ni) supplement. I also think that organisms with the <"urease enzyme"> will have pretty efficient mechanisms for sequestering any nickel ions (Ni++).
> 
> cheers Darrel


That is correct Darrel. It appear as Urea also convert into NH4 in the solution that was made with pure Distilled water where Nickel or any enzyme would be lacking. This is why we had mixed opinions on it


----------



## MichaelJ

dw1305 said:


> _Disclaimer: I am not an expert in the field, have absolutely no authoritative standing in the community and ugly tanks with dying fish and plants._


Darrel, for us to help with your fish and plants we will need a bit of information first... just the basic facts...






						Please read the guidelines for plant help!
					

Dear Member  Please give as many details as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! Please upload photographs if possible. Copy and Paste the list below...and add your answers to each number on the list!  1. Size of tank. 2. Age of the system approximately. 3. Tap...



					www.ukaps.org
				




  

Happy New Year!
Michael


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> Darrel, for us to help with your fish and plants we will need a bit of information first... just the basic facts.......


......... But you are assuming that I would, both

 listen to the voice of reason and 
not show you a photoshopped image I'd "borrowed" from this forum.
Cheers Darrel


----------



## MichaelJ

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> ......... But you are assuming that I would, both
> 
> listen to the voice of reason and
> not show you a photoshopped image I'd "borrowed" from this forum.
> Cheers Darrel


Happy new year Darrel,  you will listen to this feller at least (well, I know you will!):


Maybe it's a generational thing, but for for me Richard  Feynman still   nails it 
Cheers,
Michael


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> but for for me Richard Feynman still nails it


I nearly wrote, 


> "_I've no idea what he is on about, and what would he know anyway? You would imagine he'd invented the atom bomb or  had a Nobel prize or something, give me the Biohome man any time, he makes much more sense.........._


but I just can't do it, Richard Feynman, he really is both the definition of genius and a man who could explain fundamental processes in terms that you could understand.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Zeus.

Happi said:


> *31.545 Gram Solufeed 2:1:4 mixed in 500 ml solution, 20 ml per 50 gallon (Micors/Fe/Macros)*
> 
> N 1 (Contain Urea-N and NO3-N)
> P 0.2
> K 1.766
> Fe 0.01166
> Mn 0.004
> B 0.0014
> Cu 0.000666
> Zn 0.005
> Mg 0.1266
> Mo 0.000333
> 
> *5.721 gram **Solufeed Sodium Free TEC** Mixed in 500 ml, 20 ml per 50 gallon (Micros/Fe)*
> 
> Fe 0.1
> Mn 0.02418
> B 0.0111
> Cu 0.00278
> Zn 0.014
> Mo 0.001813






Just a cross check on @Happi figures (Plus it checks mine )


----------



## Happi

Zeus. said:


> View attachment 199533
> Just a cross check on @Happi figures (Plus it checks mine )


the main difference is i have used 189.27 liters instead of 189.0 liters for calculation, so you might find some minor difference by Decimals.  anyway, for the Micros (Solufeed Sodium Free TEC) i get 6.798 gram (almost 6.8 gram) to reach 0.119 ppm Fe  target range for 189.0 liters. with 6.70 gram it would give 0.11728 ppm Fe to be exact, again the difference is very minor.


----------



## Zeus.

Happi said:


> the main difference is i have used 189.27 liters instead of 189.0 liters for calculation, so you might find some minor difference by Decimals.  anyway, for the Micros (Solufeed Sodium Free TEC) i get 6.798 gram (almost 6.8 gram) to reach 0.119 ppm Fe  target range for 189.0 liters. with 6.70 gram it would give 0.11728 ppm Fe to be exact, again the difference is very minor.


It was just a quick check to check the results that the alpha addition to the IFC fert calculator was in the right magnitude of order.
Also trying to do it so other commercial AIO salts can be added with little effort. Plus adding them also lets us see all the ppms so we can see how suitable the AIO salt is. Have four Solufeeds AIO salts added ATM.
Much depends on what you can get your hands on in your neck of the woods.


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## Zeus.

I've been playing around with the IFC Calculator to integrated Solufeeds AIO line up, then had a quick look at ICL line up of fertilisers. Getting the right N: P:K of the product is tricky. So I made my own imagery product ' Zeus 7:1:7' and that seems to hit the sweat spot for IE dosing for NPK, the Mg and Ca are easy to get your hands on.




Still think using solufeeds trace elements alongside 'Zeus 7:1:7' is the way to go esp seeing thats what APFUK used. So if any one care to look for a fert with an NPK of 7:1:7 that would help, obviously we will have the issue of urea unless your auto dosser will allow to do many doses a week. For many EI dosing KNO3 is the safer salt to use 'if' you can get you hands on it , without paying lots for commercial liquid ferts for larger tanks.


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