# The aquascaping hobby vs loving nature



## jsiegmund (18 Feb 2019)

Maybe it's just me, I don't know... But I seem to be in constant struggle with myself over having an aquarium. On the one side, there's the joy of having a cool hobby and the great feeling that setting up a nicely functioning tank will bring. It feels powerful being able to control a little piece of nature inside of a glass box, and likewise you feel powerless when algae take over and nature strikes back  On the other side, I truly respect nature and see how our world these days is not doing that great because of us. 

And so I try to do my part; I live in a newly built house with heat pump, solar panels, awesome isolation and no gas. Last year our solar set-up produced way more power than we needed so that's all nice and "green". I try to reduce waste, recycle stuff and care for nature in a general sense. 

So let's cut to the chase: having an aquarium might be a piece of nature, its not natural. Apart from all of the materials that you need, you're also importing plants and fish from all over the world (sort of speak) and all tanks use at least some water and power. 

Now I know that a lot of you maybe not care (as much) as I do, that's ok. But if we truly love nature, it's my personal opinion that you should at least care a little bit. So this thread is for those who do care and want to share it. Maybe we can inspire others to also think about ways to combine a great hobby with the respect that nature deserves, and give back a little! 


Here's some tips from myself that I try to follow: 

I've got a small tank (55liter) to begin with (and only one). Granted this is also due to time available, but it was a conscious choice not to go too big. Bigger tanks obviously require more water and power. 
The water I take out during water changes I try to recycle. During the summer by watering the garden and in winter time at least the indoor plants. This is a great tip by the way, as you probably still have some nutrients in the water that your other plants can benefit from as well. 
Same for RO; I do use RO water for my tank, but the waste water I collect and use for other purposes whenever I can. Simply matter of sticking the hose in a jerry can. 
For plants / trimmings; don't flush them! There's problems where species from other parts of the worlds end up in the wild and take over everything because there are no natural enemies here. 
For livestock you might also want to find out where your LFS imports them from and how they're caught. Otos for instance are in some cases caught in large numbers, of which a lot die during their travel. So it's better to get them locally bred. 

Really curious to find out if there are other like minded folks out there who might also have some stories, tips or other things to share. Thanks!


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (18 Feb 2019)

I agree entirely with your thoughts. I recently visited South Africa where there is a real water shortage (like they will actually be running out of water, not there are a load of people wingeing about a possible hose pipe ban that never happened) and observed first hand what can truly be done to save, capture and reuse water. I showered with a bucket and this was used to flush the loo plus clean the bathroom for example. Water from cooking used on the garden. Tax was put up for people using too many litres per day. Sheets were not washed everyday etc etc....  

The things that 'get me' are different to yours though...
The power requirements of a tank heated to tropical temperatures and with sufficient lighting to grow plants. This something I'm constantly trying to optimise and reduce...
The other is the feeling I'm keeping large fish in a small cage. I have a 100cm tank and anything over 6cm to me looks wrong in the tank, like it doesn't have enough space to explore etc etc. I much prefer smaller species, 4 cm and less, one or two feature fish maybe a tad bigger but that's it.

I don't use RO, sticking to what fish suit my local water conditions, and I compost my plant trimmings...

Not sure I'm helping people feel good about their hobby here...


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## Onoma1 (18 Feb 2019)

I think this is a really important thread Jsiegmund.  On a personal basis this is an issue that I have been concerned about for a while. My attempts to sooth my conscience while enjoying the hobby are as follows: 

I can accept transporting plants from within Europe (they are low weight and bulk), however, not flying them in from around the world.  

Only using Co2 from fire extinguishers. One of my concerns is that of given climate change it seems hypocritical/ criminal to buy co2 and then vent most of it into the atmosphere (via the tank). My compromise is to buy a waste product and use them (fire extinguishers). I was told that when they are returned out of date they are just vented. I am, however, slowly edging toward's Matt@easyscape's approach on co2.

I think I do, however, need to add another one: only buy fish that have been bred in the UK and keep one's that could possibly breed (like Matt I only keep small ones). 

I add waste water to the garden in the summer.  Given I live in North Manchester (the damp atmosphere and amount of rain we have up here) I don't feel too guilty about using water during the winter and use it for my indoor plants (which thrive on the ferts left in the water).  I do, however, think EI the approach of over dosing ferts and then throwing them away could and should be revised. We should be able to do better.


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## akwarium (18 Feb 2019)

feel good about their hobby..... interesting choice of words..


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## Onoma1 (18 Feb 2019)

akwarium said:


> feel good about their hobby..... interesting choice of words..



If you have a cognitive dissonance between your beliefs/ facts (a causal link between co2 omissions and climate change) and your actions (venting of 2kg of co2 into the air every couple of months via an aquarium for an optional luxury)  then this can cause tension and diminishes your enjoyment of the luxury. Different people deal with this in different ways...plant trees, suppress or rationalise (my benefit or need outweighs the community/ socital need) or explain through social norms (we are all doing it). 

I think the thread and Matt are suggesting an alternative aproach which is worth discussion and could help decrease dissonance and thus increase enjoyment.


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Feb 2019)

@Onoma1 Psych grad or undergrad by any chance?

Not being rude. Just interested to know if there’s another psychologist on the forum.


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## Onoma1 (18 Feb 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> @Onoma1 Psych grad or undergrad by any chance?
> 
> Not being rude. Just interested to know if there’s another psychologist on the forum.



My partner is a psychologist.  

I am trying not to bring any baggage to the forum as I realise that I am full of the excitement of stringing sentences together in Aquascaping terms, whilst most people on this forum are postgrad researchers. I am here to listen, learn and occasionally I stumble upon 'wicked questions'.


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Feb 2019)

Awesome. This hobby is a nice counterbalance to academics


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Feb 2019)

As for the environment...

Quit or reduce milk intake. Diary uses a vast amount of resources. Will probably offset a good chunk of the carbon footprint involved with an aquarium setup as diary intake is potentially ongoing.


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## Dadofthree (19 Feb 2019)

Walk to the LFS Instead of using your CAR


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (19 Feb 2019)

Wow, wish I could! Nearest one to me is a 20 minute drive away!


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## Edvet (19 Feb 2019)

http://projectpiaba.org/


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## Dadofthree (19 Feb 2019)

Dadofthree said:


> Walk to the LFS Instead of using your CAR





Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Wow, wish I could! Nearest one to me is a 20 minute drive away!


Sorry i was being sarcastic don't think we can comment on our hobbies footprint when you look at our living and lifestyle around it
We are the end of the chain in the hobby


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## dw1305 (19 Feb 2019)

Hi all, 
I agree with the other posters, you can reduce your environmental footprint, or at least think about what you are doing in terms of its environmental impact, the same approach as @Onoma1. I'm not a CO2 user, I use rain-water in the tanks and we have solar panels that are a net exporter of electricity to the grid, but this is all really froth.

I keep aquariums (and house-plants and a garden) because I like plants and fish, and a cat because I like having a cat. You could make a strong argument that these are activities aren't justifiable on a planet where we are squandering our natural resources at an unprecendented rate.  

cheers Darrel


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## Fiske (19 Feb 2019)

Although I agree with the sentiment, and a lot of the posts; my take is that a couple of kgs of co2 over a couple of months is negligible compared to other things.
Recycle as much of your waste as you possibly can, reduce your meat and dairy intake, use public transport as often as possible, reuse your waste water, avoid supporting unsustainably farmed soy and palm oil (good luck with that! ), support local sustainable businesses as much as possible, don't get a new car every other year, use your mobile phone, tv, computer etc. until it breaks; then make sure it gets recycled properly, avoid air travel, avoid importing from the far side of the earth if a local product is just as good, but a few quid more expensive... I could go on for a few days, but you get the picture. Now take your wood bicycle and have a nice ride into the countryside, find a nice hilltop. See all the farms around you? Those, and the ones next to them probably use more fertilizers than the worlds combined EI users, and enough antibiotics to cure a small 3rd world country. Those are the things I'd worry about before my monthly kg of CO2, since I dont jog I guess it evens out. Do I do all of the above things? Some, yup, others, nyet. No saint here.
Edvet mentioned projectpiaba.org, local environmental groups and the like, that's what can use our support. Oh, and getting our lazy corrupt politicians of their fat ...es and start reacting to what could very well end up being the biggest environmental collapse since the dinosaurs went ka-blooey.
That means making demands towards big oil, big industry and big farming, and waving goodbye to growth capitalism.

Vegan hippies homesteading in off-grid straw huts ain't going to cut it.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Feb 2019)

Crikey guys this is a bit of a depressing angle on the hobby. It's not as if any of us are clubbing seal pubs to death with the dismembered limbs of orphan children, in fact quite the contrary, and in many respects it's a bit like preaching to the converted.
I must admit that when I first started back with the hobby, after a lifetime of doing things the low-energy way, I found the obvious contradiction of Takashi Amano's high-energy Nature Aquarium philosophy to be somewhat confusing, but then I got over myself.

Unless you're Arne Næss and wash in cold water like the Dirty Dozen your environmental footprint is going to be huge anyway, especially if you have a lawn and/or children. Sure resources are finite and at some point if we carry on regardless we're going to run out of planet, but have faith in technology, and rest assured that the environmental impact of keeping a planted tank is negligible in the grander scheme of things. In fact, the environmental benefits probably outweigh the disadvantages for a whole load of obvious and freakonomic reasons, not least helping us to understand and respect nature, and improving our health and wellbeing in a world gone mad.

Planted tanks are a good thing, so please be at peace with yourselves and enjoy the hobby...


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## Edvet (19 Feb 2019)

One could say Nuclear energy could hold us over till we have functioning Hydrogen cars and nuclear fusion


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## Onoma1 (19 Feb 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> ...It's not as if any of us are clubbing seal pubs to death with the dismembered limbs of orphan children,...



Phew Tim the rumors about you aren't true then! So chilled on the forum but he has a dark side 

More seriously I think no one is saying don't enjoy the hobby or are trying to preach to the converted. Just discuss interesting ideas.  I also agree of the hobby's benefits in "improving our health and wellbeing in a world gone mad." 

I read this thread aa one which rather than being intended as a depressing topic was constructive and throwing out ideas in a positive and open way. There seem to be lots of them already being asked on the forum:

Does the approach of adding co2 into containers in tank to be absorbed slowly lead to more efficient use of Co2?

Could we find a way of measuring fertilizers to ensure more absorbtion and fewer water changes?

Can we have an an alternative type of substrate to aquasoil?

For me a negative answer to these sorts of questions is as important as a positive one.

I just follow the dictum that the unexamined life is not worth living or to rephrase this in the era of climate change if we don't examine our lives and change them they won't be worth living.

I don't think that we all need to be "Vegan hippies homesteading in off-grid straw huts" as Fiske put it. If, however, we could make micro changes to our individual actions then collectively this can make an impact. For some this will be becoming vegan, others are using public transport more often. Others debate how they can reduce the co2 emissions related to their hobby .  Each to their own. We should all have the right to make personal choices without being judged by others. I don't particularly like straw as a building material but if you want to go for it then I will watch and learn.

I agree that technology has to be the a significant element of the solution. I do think in the era of Trump, Putin and the mess of UK politics younger people are losing faith in politicians being able/ willing to make the necessary changes. If you are reading this from the Netherlands or almost anywhere in Europe then be aware that in the UK many of the things you treat as common place and comon sense are unusual here. The young seem to be reacting to this by taking direct action and making changes to their lifestyles.


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## akwarium (19 Feb 2019)

Onoma1 said:


> If you have a cognitive dissonance between your beliefs/ facts (a causal link between co2 omissions and climate change) and your actions (venting of 2kg of co2 into the air every couple of months via an aquarium for an optional luxury)  then this can cause tension and diminishes your enjoyment of the luxury. Different people deal with this in different ways...plant trees, suppress or rationalise (my benefit or need outweighs the community/ socital need) or explain through social norms (we are all doing it).
> 
> I think the thread and Matt are suggesting an alternative aproach which is worth discussion and could help decrease dissonance and thus increase enjoyment.




I do not believe in climate change,  for the same reason that I do not believe that the earth is round, or water is wet. Facts do not require anyone to believe in them. 
Feeling good, or bad, about something is on the other hand only based on believes, it's about morality.  Besides all the positives things that come with morality,  the downside is that those moral believes of ours make us easily overlook the facts. ( or even deny them)

Your anti-CO2-emission-ideas, make you overlook the very obvious  fact that venting CO2 trough your aquarium does not produce any CO2.  Depending on the source it is only reentering the atmosphere or entering the atmosphere with a delay. So unless you want to fight global warming by putting CO2 in canisters and leaf it there for eternity, it does not make any difference at all.

Of course it took some energy to get it in that canister and get it home etc, but in relation to climate change it does not matter how we use energy it only matters how we produce that energy. The problem is caused by us using the wrong sources of energy: coal, oil and gas. Those release the carbon that has been safely stored for millions of years, and we really should stop using fossil energy sources.


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## Fiske (19 Feb 2019)

Onoma1 said:


> I don't think that we all need to be "Vegan hippies homesteading in off-grid straw huts" as Fiske put it. If, however, we could make micro changes to our individual actions then collectively this can make an impact.



That was kind of my point. Change must be systemwide.

As for nuclear energy, IMHO, just no. For a whole slew of reasons, one of the foremost being: Do we even have fuel enough for the amount of reactors we need to go on as we do now? Lots of other reasons too, btw

Reminds me of a science fiction short I read from one of the big names. Clarke? Bradbury? Can't remember... Anyway, someone asked a bunch of scientists to calculate how big/how many reactors was needed to cover humanitys need for energy for the future. After a while they come up with an answer: One, says the lead scientist, and points to the sun.



akwarium said:


> Your anti-CO2-emission-ideas, make you overlook the very obvious  fact that venting CO2 trough your aquarium does not produce any CO2.  Depending on the source it is only reentering the atmosphere or entering the atmosphere with a delay. So unless you want to fight global warming by putting CO2 in canisters and leaf it there for eternity, it does not make any difference at all.
> 
> Of course it took some energy to get it in that canister and get it home etc, but in relation to climate change it does not matter how we use energy it only matters how we produce that energy. The problem is caused by us using the wrong sources of energy: coal, oil and gas. Those release the carbon that has been safely stored for millions of years, and we really should stop using fossil energy sources.




I'm fairly certain that the pressurized, bottled CO2 isn't athmospheric. Probably a byproduct from producing ammonia from natural gas, in fact. So there's that.


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## dw1305 (19 Feb 2019)

Hi all, 





Tim Harrison said:


> It's not as if any of us are clubbing seal pubs to death with the dismembered limbs of orphan children,


If it isn't copyrighted? I'm going to use that one in the future.





Tim Harrison said:


> Planted tanks are a good thing, so please be at peace with yourselves and enjoy the hobby..


I think that as well.





Fiske said:


> I'm fairly certain that the pressurized, bottled CO2 isn't athmospheric. Probably a byproduct from producing ammonia from natural gas, in fact


It is a by-product of ammonia production.





Onoma1 said:


> If you are reading this from the Netherlands or almost anywhere in Europe then be aware that in the UK many of the things you treat as common place and comon sense are unusual here.


That is a masterpiece of under-statement. 

We swap our house (and have "work aways"), and have had many visitors from Denmark, Italy, Sweden, Germany, Netherlands etc. and some things take a bit of explaining, like why it could cost you several hundred pounds to go London on the train, and that if you drive into Bath you are likely to accumulate quite a lot of traffic offence fines due to the less than transparent nature of the road markings and signage. 

I'm not going to mention BREXIT, but if you try and explain the rationale and background for it it often leads to incredulous laughter pretty quickly.

cheers Darrel


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## tam (19 Feb 2019)

I think it's worth thinking about - a lot of things don't make a big difference in the grand scheme of things but can add up when a lot of people do them. Take the bucephalandra ... it's my, very rough, understanding that there was a sudden excitement over that in the hobby and it lead to some unsustainable/illegal collecting practices. We can also blame the hobby for some invasive plant and fish species being released into ecosystems that they shouldn't be in.

There is potential for good too - like money that supports eccosystem protection or breeding to preserve endangered species - even just development of knowledge generally.

Never hurts to think is there a better way to do what I'm doing? The bit I struggle with is working out what is the better way as often there is a lack of information available for making decisions. Where is the fish in a shop from, is the wild or farm bred better? Were these plants grown using pesticides that were then run off into a stream? Are botanicals collected in a sustainable way?


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## Parablennius (19 Feb 2019)

For a long time ( decades actually)  I've followed this. "Think globally, act locally" I can't do anything about what other countries do. What is the point of green actions, taxation etc . It's the same air, it's the same sea wherever on the globe you are! I planted Hawthorne trees, established a fish-free pond in my amphibian sanctuary and a pond must be one of the most productive additions to any garden. Look at the shocking state of amphibians worldwide, talk about an indicator! Doesn't just work for amphibians though, flying insects that need water are big benefactors, hedgehogs drink from it, native marginals grow in it. We were recyclers long before it became the "in thing". Personally, I'm happy that I do as much I can to minimise my impact on the planet but, you can be sure that when my home becomes someone elses property, the pond will likely be filled in and the sanctuary levelled and paved!


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## mort (19 Feb 2019)

Whilst I completely agree that we all need a global conscience and that we all need to do everything we can, I would argue that most of us aren't the ones that need to listen. The fact we love nature enough to have a small part of it in our homes mean we appreciate it enough to care, it's the ones that don't who need the lesson. 

I also think you need some kind of boundaries. Those that worry about running co2 on their tanks, do they still enjoy a nice bubbly beer, champagne or soft drink, if so then it's very blurry lines. We need enough space to enjoy life a little without worrying.

At the end of the day a lot of the problem is we have been conned, buy diesel cars, yes everything in your recycling bin is being recycled, wind farms are very efficient. I'm not trying to pass the blame onto others, yes our impact may be negligible but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to help, but it's the people at the top who are the biggest problem and they are the ones who drive opinion.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Feb 2019)

Onoma1 said:


> I just follow the dictum that the unexamined life is not worth living or to rephrase this in the era of climate change if we don't examine our lives and change them they won't be worth living.


I guess that depends on the level of Socratic scrutiny you're contemplating. I think most folk are too busy trying to survive in a rapidly changing and increasingly chaotic world, especially in developing nations, to contemplate that maxim at any other level than a superficial one, regardless of what it pertains to. Does that make their lives any less worth living ?


Onoma1 said:


> If, however, we could make micro changes to our individual actions then collectively this can make an impact.


But this ain't going to happen any time soon, in fact the worlds population is scrambling for an even larger share of the Earth's resources to improve the quality of life and meet the needs of increasingly extravagant lifestyle aspirations. Even if it were to happen, this fixation with anthropogenic global warming is a massive distraction from the main event...population growth. Trying to stop global warming without tackling this first is kind of like King Canute trying to turn back the tide.

In that context at least, whether a bunch of niche hobbyist use ADA AS or dirt as a substrate, or whether they use eutrophic fertz dosing or the Duck Weed index, or whether or not they decide to inject CO2, ain't really going to make that much difference.


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## Parablennius (19 Feb 2019)

As an addendum to my last post, do what you can as an individual. Imagine if every other house on your street had a pond? Happy days. Over a period I e-mailed a very well known bread producer asking if the "vegetable oil" they listed as an ingredient was in fact, palm oil. No response. I sent a second, still no response.  Months down the line I checked the packaging again which now listed "sustainable palm oil". I made the point in my last e-mail to the respondant that it's only sustainable after the forests have been cleared! End of conversation. Why can they not use UK produced rapeseed oil?


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## Onoma1 (19 Feb 2019)

Tim Harrison said:


> I guess that depends on the level of Socratic scrutiny you're contemplating. I think most folk are too busy trying to survive in a rapidly changing and increasingly chaotic world, especially in developing nations, to contemplate that maxim at any other level than a superficial one, regardless of what it pertains to. Does that make their lives any less worth living ?



I probably sounded pompus, which wasn't the intention. I do, however, believe that if we have the luxury of choice we should examine our potential choices. Particularly if there is any chance at all of those choices reducing the factors that are forcing people to just to try to survive the influence of decisions we make.



Tim Harrison said:


> But this ain't going to happen any time soon, in fact the worlds population is scrambling for an even larger share of the Earth's resources to improve the quality of life and meet the needs of increasingly extravagant lifestyle aspirations. Even if it were to happen, this fixation with anthropogenic global warming is a massive distraction from the main event...population growth. Trying to stop global warming without tackling this first is kind of like King Canute trying to turn back the tide.



Possibly, however, rather than neo-Malthusian views of population growth  I hope that crisis can stimulate technological solutions.  I can only hope.



Tim Harrison said:


> Whether a bunch of niche hobbyist use ADA AS or dirt as a substrate, or whether they use eutrophic fertz dosing or the Duck Weed index, or whether or not they decide to inject CO2, ain't going to make the slightest bit of difference.



Possibly not. Given the popularity of the hobby worldwide maybe a small one.  We don't know. I don't not think that negates discussing and examining ideas.

Now I know how that seal pub felt ...probably need to visit a pub for a pint ( real non of thst co2 injected stuff).


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## jsiegmund (19 Feb 2019)

Wow guys. I expected a few responses but not this  Great to see how this topic does spawn a bit of discussion and hopefully raises "awareness" (I dislike the term but don't know a better alternative).

To be clear: I'm definitely not out to judge people with what is certainly a nice hobby. I also don't care if you use CO2 or not (as said: this is a by product and you're not actually producing the stuff by dissolving it in your water). It's much more about the concept of taking and giving. Hobbies like this can be very addictive and it's easy to take. And the awareness part is about knowing what you take. Not just water and power. Frodo stones don't come from your back yard. The Tropica greenhouse is located in Denmark if I'm not mistaken. I normally don't have a clue where fish come from. And all of those AliExpress packages are not being teleported over either. So it's one thing running a tank, but there's much more stuff which is not as visible as getting some water from the tap.

Now again: I'm not saying people should not be doing this. But consider giving for whatever you're taking, and that can be done in many different forms as the reactions above already show. One might have a pond in their garden. The other donates a tree every now and then, a third doesn't travel by plane. All valuable ways of reducing your footprint. And indeed; not having 5 children running around also helps  For myself, I certainly try to be considerate of the way I live but at the same time I do travel to work by car every day which is about 75km back and forth. So I'm definitely not a saint here, but planning to go electric and not flying to my holiday destinations are ways that I try to give back a bit on that same area. I've also drastically limited my meat (virtually no beef and much less of the other kinds) and dairy consumption btw, which really wasn't that hard at all.

Anyways; it's cool to find that there's more like minded hobbyists out there who consider these things. I hope that by sharing and caring we can maybe spread these considerations a bit and hope that others pick up. In another thread the YouTube scapers were being discussed. It would be nice to have one of them discuss this topic for a change. As most of us in this hobby are nature lovers, it certainly doesn't hurt to give back bit does it?


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## akwarium (19 Feb 2019)

Fiske said:


> I'm fairly certain that the pressurized, bottled CO2 isn't athmospheric. Probably a byproduct from producing ammonia from natural gas, in fact. So there's that.



yes and as byproduct from the production of beer. Which means its taken recently from the atmosphere.  In both cases it is a byproduct, and using it for your aquarium wont cause any extra CO2 to be produced.


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## Geoffrey Rea (19 Feb 2019)




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## Fiske (20 Feb 2019)

akwarium said:


> yes and as byproduct from the production of beer. Which means its taken recently from the atmosphere.  In both cases it is a byproduct, and using it for your aquarium wont cause any extra CO2 to be produced.



Not gonna argue this ad nauseam, but remember last summer when major breweries all over Europe had a CO2 shortage caused by a rise in LNG prices? Breweries are CO2 users, not manufacturers.
Even a lot of bottle conditioned beer gets a bit of CO2 before sealing.

Having brewed beer myself, I doubt it would be worth it to "harvest" CO2 from fermentation to sell pressurised bottles, especially foodgrade CO2. Possible, yes, economically viable, no.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/22/caused-uks-carbon-dioxide-shortage/amp/


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## mort (20 Feb 2019)

A little off tangent but arguably the most environmental person in history was Genghis Khan, simply because his empire spanned so far and killed so many that areas stripped for farmland were retaken by nature.

There was a paper released in the last few weeks that showed the impact of a population crash in the US (something like 60 million - 6 million) after the arrival of he first Europeans. The article is here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-...ate-change&link_location=live-reporting-story and it explains how even an area the size of France becoming naturalised again only has a small impact on our world.

I know it's a little doom and gloom but shows us we all need to take personal responsibility.


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## roadmaster (20 Feb 2019)

Title to thread "Aquascaping vs Loving nature" are one and the same for me.
I spend many day's and evening's in nature and aquascaping ,caring for tropical fishes,  are my way of bringing a little of nature inside for my own selfish pleasure.
Some serenity. for me ,cursed with tortured soul and free spirit constantly at battle with one another.


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## Oldguy (20 Feb 2019)

I am at peace with my hobby.

I use approx 50/50 rainwater/tap water heated on Economy 7. I collect so much rainwater I sometimes run it into the garden (where it would have gone anyway) but at a slower release rate. My tap water comes from about 15 miles away and as never been in short supply. Waste water from water changes is discharged to the garden and drains to the same river catchment as the water from the water works water would have gone to if there was no water works. [you can't destroy water.] There are processing and distribution costs I know but I seldom fly and have modest holidays mainly at home in the garden. Car trips, I get as many destinations in as possible. A special trip is a failure of planning. Food waste does not exist in my home.

CO2 is a typically a byproduct. If you are worried about its release in fish tanks, get colas banned it will have a bigger impact.

Heat energy from my tank goes into my stone house. If there was no tank I would just have to turn the house heating up. [Hot summers are different, too early to say if they will be a feature in the UK]

Plants I give away or compost, fish die from old age and are composted. My aquascape, if you can call it that, was set up over ten years ago. 

EI dosing, you don't have to hit the buffers with the amounts, but they are only ppm. I use a natural inert substrate, it should last to the end of time. House and garden plants love the nutrients (ppm) in the waste water.

If you really, really, care for the planet don't have children. If you must, then educate them, they may come up with solutions. However there are too many people.

Be positive: a gentle hobby, a nice pet you can stroke, house plants and a nice garden. These save the NHS a fortune in health benefits. Global warming or global cooling, we are in an inter glacial period. Choose your poison with care.


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## Simon Cole (21 Feb 2019)

I would say that what I do has a significant impact on greenhouse gas emissions, and to some extent threatens the existence of certain species and habitats. My other hobbies have barely any impact in comparison. 
I would not say that my hobby is particularly ethical. I would love to publish an article on sustainability and foot-printing, so if anybody knows of a publisher that would be interested, I would be happy to research and offer an article.


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## PARAGUAY (21 Feb 2019)

You could approach Nathan Hill editor PFK magazine Simon he has a very keen interest of welfare, and all things ethical, Personally I feel overall the hobby brings more people to think of the planet and sustaining the natural world(eg  a well run childs aquarium can lead to a lifelong interest in nature as he or she grows up)than not. The downsides are obviously poor regulation of fish farming for aquarium keeping , And such as dyed fish just cruel!,And sorry I know we love them but new and rare species exported from habitats that are not in danger. Just a thought could the hobby be saving habitats and fish ? A Source for Cardinal Tetras exported in large numbers is providing income for the local people,sustaining that particular habitat and fish and preventing that habitat being possibly destroyed if that was not happening


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## zozo (21 Feb 2019)

That is a question applicable for the intire pet industry.. Love goes a long way.. Many may ask what it realy is beeing animal friendly, loving nature and use terms like Humane with a suffix in affiliation to this concept.

Spending large amounts of money on a pedigree Canine that is doomed to suffer major health issues? All that only for its looks.

Same for a pedrigee Feline doomed to live an intire life on a sofa only seeing the outside world through a window?

Birds in a Cage or on chained to a stick, because it looks and sings so nice or even talks like us..

Animals like Elephants in a Zoo, a migratory and very inteligent social animal kept captive in a much to small invironment doomed to develop health issues because it is deprived from what it needs to most, able to migrate.

The list goes on and on about endlessly.. And 99% of the humans supporting this practice, steers away from the question "Why?"and "What is it excactly what you realy love in this? With absolute silly worthless excuses.

Bottom line, deep down honnest.. 

It is all about showing off and loving yourself more.

And in this process we still are trying hard to rotate the bush and find a human justification for this morbitity to economicaly get the most plessure out of it. 

Have fun..


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## obsessed (7 Mar 2019)

it may sound crazy but I stopped going to zoo's


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## obsessed (7 Mar 2019)

zozo said:


> It is all about showing off and loving yourself more


absolutely


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## zozo (8 Mar 2019)

obsessed said:


> it may sound crazy but I stopped going to zoo's



Not to me, last time i viseted a zoo 38 years ago..  There are/were definitively beautifull things to see.. But also a lot that i just cannot understand.

I once viewed an interview with a zoo caretaker.. And he proudly stated with a nice twist, zoo's are the modern version of Noahs Ark.. Preserving species and preventing extinction. And that needs funding, croud funding?.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03rn7p1


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## Edvet (8 Mar 2019)

I worked at two (dutch) zoos. Believe me they all do their best. But they are in constant need for money, feed and personel costs are high compared to their income. Most of the staff is incredibly dedicated, donating unpaid hours if the situation calls for it, and on meager salaries. They love their animals.


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## zozo (8 Mar 2019)

Edvet said:


> I worked at two (dutch) zoos. Believe me they all do their best. But they are in constant need for money, feed and personel costs are high compared to their income. Most of the staff is incredibly dedicated, donating unpaid hours if the situation calls for it, and on meager salaries. They love their animals.



I absolutely do not doubt that.. I would if it was my job..  It's the same for any kind of captive animal, once it is there you need to care for it with all the love and care you can give. For a lot the question remains, should it even be there in th efirst place?..

As in the documentary is stated even by zoo proprietor, they don't have Elephants because they are so much in need to be kept is zoo's from the species perspective. No, they atract public, they need public for the money. And the public wants something spectacular to choose to go to this zoo. Thus the Elephant is on the zoo's whichlist as a public atracting clown.. This goes for more animal sp. than the elephant only.. 

Their loss, your gain principle?


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## Tim Harrison (8 Mar 2019)

I guess way back when zoos were first opened the primary aim was to entertain folk with strange and exotic animals from other continents.
Nowadays, they often claim the sole purpose is conservation...but there's very little point if measures aren't put in place to conserve the exhibits natural habitat as well.

But either way I've always found this film extremely poignant...


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## obsessed (8 Mar 2019)

I used to donate a fare sum when I went to a animal sanctuary( fansy name for a zoo) it was in spain.. in an area called Guadalest . beautiful location.. the gentleman that looked after it was a diamond.. he saved circus animals mainly lions.. no pun intendid.. as public opinion was getting more pc.. he also save lots of different grazy type animals that zoo's in Europe no longer could make money off.. it closed because a English women stuck here arm in the fench and a hungry tiger decided to bite it off.. true story I'm sure you can read aout it.. the sun newspaper did a big article about it.. funny the lady was only upset because she could not knit anymore.


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## rebel (8 Mar 2019)

obsessed said:


> I used to donate a fare sum when I went to a animal sanctuary( fansy name for a zoo) it was in spain.. in an area called Guadalest . beautiful location.. the gentleman that looked after it was a diamond.. he saved circus animals mainly lions.. no pun intendid.. as public opinion was getting more pc.. he also save lots of different grazy type animals that zoo's in Europe no longer could make money off.. it closed because a English women stuck here arm in the fench and a hungry tiger decided to bite it off.. true story I'm sure you can read aout it.. the sun newspaper did a big article about it.. funny the lady was only upset because she could not knit anymore.


Quite a story indeed!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...99/Lion-bites-off-arm-of-British-tourist.html


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## obsessed (8 Mar 2019)

wow.. that was a quick find.. crazy world we live in..


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## rebel (8 Mar 2019)

obsessed said:


> wow.. that was a quick find.. crazy world we live in..


Single search using the keywords provided. Crazy indeed.


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## Edvet (8 Mar 2019)

One of our zoo's had outdoor enclosure people could ride their car through, ample warnings to keep the windows closed in the lion area............................................
On Fin ( as far as i remember) decided he could take better pictures outside the car, and once someone was mauled through the open window. ( both in the seventies i think). The areas are closed for cars now


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## zozo (8 Mar 2019)

Edvet said:


> One of our zoo's had outdoor enclosure people could ride their car through, ample warnings to keep the windows closed in the lion area............................................
> On Fin ( as far as i remember) decided he could take better pictures outside the car, and once someone was mauled through the open window. ( both in the seventies i think). The areas are closed for cars now



If i'm not mistaken a video of this happening roams the net.. I thought it is filmed in the 70's at Beeksebergen Safari park. SOme guy getting out of the car and attacked by the loins..


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## Ady34 (8 Mar 2019)

People are stupid....


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## Edvet (8 Mar 2019)

Nah was at Burgers Zoo


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## obsessed (8 Mar 2019)

it used to happen allot in europe.. media did not find out.. now with camera phones its a different story..this subject is massive and can lead to many places.. I think we are all a little hypocritical at times and fool ourselves into thinking we are being green. but I think a collective approach is the only way forward.. if we all stopped using and eating eggs or how about we stop eating cheese


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## obsessed (8 Mar 2019)

a quick interview with a monkey from twycross zoo.


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## PARAGUAY (9 Mar 2019)

Edvet said:


> I worked at two (dutch) zoos. Believe me they all do their best. But they are in constant need for money, feed and personel costs are high compared to their income. Most of the staff is incredibly dedicated, donating unpaid hours if the situation calls for it, and on meager salaries. They love their animals.


I agree and its interesting how well many regulated zoos have staff who go out of their way to discuss why a certain animal is there and how some animals that although well cared for dont but and its a question?because without  them a zoo without them the funds they require would reduce, for example funding for Panda conservation would not be there, of course zoos have changed there aims and intentions now,bad apples shouldnt detract from good work


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## obsessed (9 Mar 2019)

joking aside nobody said the people that work there aren't dedicated for most of them it's a career.. in general most peps that look after animals in general are diamonds in the rough.. shelters of all kinds are brimming because us humans.. keeping animals in a cage for human entertainment.. we not only keep them in poor condition compared to there natural habitat but we manipulate genes.. feed them massive amounts of drugs.. what about sealife centers.. imagine the power consumption.. on another note my water for my tiny slice of nature indoors is from a decelanation plant... what kind misconception are they selling us about using sea water.. the plant is 1 mile away and sucks dirty sea water up.. it may be cost effective in 30 years but at what cost to sealife.. go to the coast and pick up 10 discarded fag filters..  money and the greedy...


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