# Water changes without dechlorinator



## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

What is the damage if I do that long term?

I've been doing large water changes without dechlorinator for the last 4 weeks on two tanks.  That's because I ran out of dechlorinator and I kept the last bits for my big tank so my small tanks have been water changed without any at all.  In one of them I accidentally did 70% as I forgot the python draining and the tank is small, takes a few minutes to drain it.

Those two tanks contain corydoras, kuhli loaches, shrimp and ottos and they are absolutely unaffected during or after.
Today I ran out of dechlorinator altogether and my big tank just took a 60% water change without any dechlorinator.
A few months back I did several weeks water changes on one of these same tanks without dechlorinator to test as I had noticed that in the past in the rare cases when I forgot to put some, fish were ok. Those fish were and are still fine that I put through the test. I just started dosing back up so I don't worry about it, not because it made any difference.

From the limited info about our water I know it's treated with very little chlorine. I don't know anything about heavy metal content.

I know it's safer using dechlorinator because the water companies may flush the system and such but under the current circumstances buying Prime for multiple weekly water changes cost me way too much.


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## Henry (14 Aug 2015)

Seriously? Buy some Seachem 'Safe' and be done with it.

My friends dad used to keep fish without dechlorinator, saying it was all a money-making scheme. He couldn't keep guppies alive for more than 3 months. The tank was stable, and the nitrate etc. levels were acceptable, but his fish always seemed sickly and ragged, as if they were under constant stress.

My guess is that although you may not notice any difference immediately, over time the fish's health will suffer. Either as a direct result of the chlorine in the water, or through knock-on effect. If you're going to adopt the care of an animal, you certainly shouldn't be looking to cut corners to save small amounts of money.

Again, I refer you to Seachem 'Safe' as a cheaper alternative. In fact, if you do a Google search, there is a particular compoind you can buy in bulk to dechlorinate your water.


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

Henry said:


> If you're going to adopt the care of an animal, you certainly shouldn't be looking to cut corners to save small amounts of money.



Lol, Henry. I've been buying Prime for years. 3x500ml bottles run out within a few months because I have 5 tanks and I do a lot of water changing.  Living in Ireland means I pay about 80 euro for them with delivery and I've been out of a job for the last few years because I went back to education. You probably have the one small tank for which one bottle of Seachem Prime lasts you a year and you probably forget doing your water changes weekly.

The options my fish have is giving them to the local fish shop in which there are 4-5 dead fish in each tank every time I go, quite a few from the rest sick and even the display tank is ridiculous.  The owner is a very nice chap but doesn't know much of anything at all.
I can't even sell the fish online even if I wanted to.

On a side note, I bought one of my tanks from an Asian guy who owns a fish shop. It's just outside my town but he says he never uses dechlorinator here because the water is good.

If it wasn't for the lack of options to keep my fish happy and alive, right now I'd give all of them away. My electricity bills are huge. My partner is cringing every time. Dechlorinator is just one of the many things. I won't mention the amount of fish food I need for quite a few fish I have. And that too needs to be ordered online, otherwise it will be tetra flakes.


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## Andy D (14 Aug 2015)

Putting the effect on the fish to one side you have to ask yourself why chlorine is added to water in the first place. Then think about what happens  to the beneficial bacteria we have in our tank when you add water full of chlorine (or chloramine). 

Take a read here also - http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/chlorine-chloramine


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## nicpapa (14 Aug 2015)

Seachem prime is the cheaper. 
dose is 5ml for 200liter  tap  water change. 
So a 500ml botle   cost~15 euro. 
It can clear 20000liters. 
I dont use it because i use ro water, and very litle tap,at 100 liter 90 liter is ro and 10 liters tap.


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

Guys, there isn't much chlorine at all in our water.
As for the beneficial bacteria, nothing happens. I've been washing my filter media under the tap for years.


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

nicpapa said:


> So a 500ml botle cost~15 euro



Nope, a 500ml bottle costs me 23 euro plus deliver 10 euro. So I buy 3 bottles to save on deliver. I am living on an island.


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## Andy D (14 Aug 2015)

If there is not much chlorine (or chloramine) then I guess you should be ok then? Bit like the Dutch. 

(Sorry, just re-read the first post. You did mention little chlorine).


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

There's absolutely no chloramine here, not even flushing the system from time to time.
What I am worried about is heavy metals. Chlorine evaporates rather quickly.


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## Andy D (14 Aug 2015)

All I can add is another link - http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/metal-ions

Hopefully someone more knowledgable can help.


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> Nope, a 500ml bottle costs me 23 euro plus deliver 10 euro. So I buy 3 bottles to save on delivery. I am living on an island.



To be correct, it costs me exactly 85 euro to buy 3 bottles plus delivery from swelluk which is about the cheapest website that does deliveries to my country.

I won't even go into detail the amount I pay for electricity because of the fish, the fish food, because I buy quality one, the repairs on my tanks, blown filters and heaters and the lists goes on. It's an expensive hobby. I've had a lot of my fish for many years and I love them and I am not putting them at risks on a whim because I'd like to or I want to take risks.


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## nicpapa (14 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> To be correct, it costs me exactly 85 euro to buy 3 bottles plus delivery from swelluk which is about the cheapest website that does deliveries to my country.
> 
> I won't even go into detail the amount I pay for electricity because of the fish, the fish food, because I buy quality one, the repairs on my tanks, blown filters and heaters and the lists goes on. It's an expensive hobby. I've had a lot of my fish for many years and I love them and I am not putting them at risks on a whim because I'd like to or I want to take risks.



I dont know exactly how much it cost ,i said ~15. 
I know its expensive hobby. 

I have 10 planted tanks...


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

Lol, nicpapa, you're working to pay for your tanks  10 planted tanks is a lot. I forgot about the ferts and co2 expense but mine are the lowest tech possible you could imagine


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## nicpapa (14 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> Lol, nicpapa, you're working to pay for your tanks  10 planted tanks is a lot. I forgot about the ferts and co2 expense but mine are the lowest tech possible you could imagine


It depend how you have setup the tanks .. 
8 of them is shrimp tanks,  and the other have fish . 
i dont buy ferts i use dry ferts. 
All my filters is power save, for shrimp tanks the filtres is 3 watt.. 
For the food it cost me about 100euros for a year , and co2 is very cheap to replace..


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## Tim Harrison (14 Aug 2015)

I've hardly ever used dechlorinator...to my knowledge I've never lost any livestock as a result...


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

Yes, it does depend. I've got 5 tanks and 11 of the devices are in filters only. Then I've got heaters in each, lights and one UV filter.  Two of the filters are 55W each, the rest vary but I've got about 2 filters or more in each tank and that's from experience because long term everything fails or clogs or whatever and I've killed fish with just one filter in a tank that accidentally failed to work.  And I've got some big poopy fish and a couple of the tanks are about 100g each.  I've got just one shrimp dedicated tank and this tank only costs about 2 euro every two months so it's not my problem  I've got plastic pots on the window with shrimp and they cost me nothing at all 

Also the water heater, to heat the tank to put for water changes is a massive KW eater.


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## sciencefiction (14 Aug 2015)

Troi said:


> I've hardly ever used dechlorinator...to my knowledge I've never lost any livestock as a result...



Thanks Troi. That's good to know.
I think I'll take the risk and try it myself. I'll let you all guys know if you wish to know what happens long term.
In my limited experience so far the fish don't care at all. Or maybe they do but don't show signs.


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## GTL_UK (15 Aug 2015)

I never used dechlorinator as well,  I'm dosing ei with 50% water change once a week and fish are perfectly fine 

Thanks


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## EnderUK (15 Aug 2015)

You can simply just run an air stone in the bucket you're going to change over night. That will get rid of the chlorine not the chloramine. You could simple do a water change every day rather then them all at once.


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## sciencefiction (15 Aug 2015)

I'd have to try the straight from tap approach. I have one bucket and hundreds of litres of water so I can't really store it. My tanks have very good flow and surface movement which should help.


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## OllieNZ (15 Aug 2015)

Can you easily get hold of pond dechlor? It works out cheaper for larger tanks.


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## allan angus (15 Aug 2015)

OllieNZ said:


> Can you easily get hold of pond dechlor? It works out cheaper for larger tanks.


or a hma filter ?


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## xim (15 Aug 2015)

EnderUK said:


> You can simply just run an air stone in the bucket you're going to change over night. That will get rid of the chlorine not the chloramine. You could simple do a water change every day rather then them all at once.



I've tested the air stone method and found that it depends on the size of the bucket (and probably the size of the air stone, aeration rate, and chlorine level).

45 litre bucket needs 24 hrs, 90 litre one needs 32 hrs for the chlorine to be undetectable.


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## xim (15 Aug 2015)

Really, if I worry about it, I will just order Seachem Safe.
A 250 g bottle equals a bit more than 3x500 ml bottles of Prime.


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## xim (15 Aug 2015)

Your concern is about heavy metals, right?. If Seachem Safe is still too expensive. Well, I read many dechlorinators use EDTA to squeeze the metals. So dosing some micros fert may help the issue. Since usually there is an amount of excess EDTA in it.

For example, this liquid Fe-EDTA contains a minimum of 10g/litre of excess EDTA.
http://www.micronutrients-fertilizers.com/ferric-ammonium-edta.html


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## sciencefiction (16 Aug 2015)

Thanks xim. I just looked up Seachem Safe. It looks like I can get 1kg from Amazon.com for 64 euro. That will last a while and works out way cheaper. Next time I get a chance I'll order that.


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## dw1305 (16 Aug 2015)

Hi all,





sciencefiction said:


> Guys, there isn't much chlorine at all in our water. As for the beneficial bacteria, nothing happens. I've been washing my filter media under the tap for years.


I wash the filter sponges etc under the tap as well, but I use rain-water for the water changes. I asked a microbiologist (with the proviso that is area of work is food safety), and he was fairly sure that there wasn't enough chlorine in the tap water to cause any problems with rinsing the sponges in tap water.

I think a lot of it depends on where you live. We have limestone aquifer water and it is very lightly chlorinated, if you have a surface water supply (from a river like the Thames etc.) it is likely to be much more heavily chlorinated. I would still worry about "emergency" chloramine, unless you have very heavily planted tanks and don't do large volume water changes. 

If I was obliged to use tap-water in the tanks I would use Prime etc. 





xim said:


> Well, I read many dechlorinators use EDTA to squeeze the metals. So dosing some micros fert may help the issue. Since usually there is an amount of excess EDTA in it. For example, this liquid Fe-EDTA contains a minimum of 10g/litre of excess EDTA.


 EDTA would work for heavy metals, because they are strongly bound ions, but Fe EDTA won't, this is because iron (Fe) is the most strongly bound ion and won't be replaced by any other ions.

If you wanted to use EDTA, then sodium EDTA (Na EDTA) is the best option. Sodium will be replaced by all the other cations, and you can buy it easily via Ebay etc.

cheers Darrel


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## Andy D (16 Aug 2015)

dw1305 said:


> I asked a microbiologist (with the proviso that is area of work is food safety), and he was fairly sure that there wasn't enough chlorine in the tap water to cause any problems with rinsing the sponges in tap water.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Darrel,

Does it come down to exposure time? If we wash the sponges in tap water are they not exposed to the chlorine for long enough to have a detrimental affect?

I would assume that the chlorine level was high enough to kill bacteria or why add it?


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## dw1305 (16 Aug 2015)

Hi all, 





Andy D said:


> Does it come down to exposure time? If we wash the sponges in tap water are they not exposed to the chlorine for long enough to have a detrimental affect?


Yes, I think it is to do with the time of exposure and the low levels of chlorine (less than 1 ppm in the UK). Chlorine definitely will kill those micro-organisms that it contacts. Details here <"Scientific American: How does ....">

I don't aim to get the filter media entirely clean, I just give it a rinse and then a couple of squeezes for the sponges. I have _Asellus_, MTS and Blackworms in most of the filters (and Rotifers in all of the internal and external filter sponges?), and they don't appeared bothered by a quick rinse in tap water either. I just run the dirty water through an aquarium net and chuck them back in the filter. I'm not sure what other people filters look like, but often after ~6 months there is very little mulm etc in the filter. 

My suspicion would be that if you had a heavily chlorinated supply, and were reliant on microbial biological filtration in a canister filter, that even the small loss of biological filtration capacity (caused by rinsing in chlorinated water) might start the whole feed-back cycle of  "_build up of ammonia, loss of oxygen, fish death, higher ammonia etc._" 

If you don't have plants, and a substrate, you are always teetering on the brink of disaster, and people who keep large messy carnivorous fish are often those who are most resistant to the idea of plants and substrate.

cheers Darrel


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## pepedopolous (16 Aug 2015)

Should we really be worried about heating up water for water changes? That must be expensive and I don't bother with it...

I have had water temps of 28/29 this summer and I just use tap water (with Prime). Once the 50% water change is done, the temp is back down to 22/23. I add the new water slowly and with the extra oxygen and crazy pearling the fish/shrimp seem perfectly fine.

P


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

Unfortunately water dechlorination is not optional for fish keeping in most of the world. (except Netherlands that uses hydrogen peroxide).

The presence of chlorine, up to 1ppm in most supplies, is brilliant at keeping the tap water pathogen free but is extremely damaging to fish, especially their gills and is deadly to the filter bacteria.

The reason a lot of people often get away with out dechlorination is the chlorine will react with organics in the water, thus being neutralised before it kills the fish and filter bacteria. Often the people who can't be a*sed to dechlorinate also have the dirtiest tanks so never see the effects of chlorine on their fish and filter bacteria.

If you are worried about cost (and health of your fish) use sodium thiosulphate, 1Kg for £7 odd will dechlorinate 100,000 litres of water. Or simply bubble air through the water 24hours before use.

Note the bubbling will not remove the even more deadly chloramine that is getting more and more common in the UK which has to be removed using chemical dechlorinator.

Note that RO systems and HMA filters do no guarantee chlorine/chloramine removal especially if carbon pre-filter is getting old. You should really test the water from these systems for both chlorine and ammonia (breakdown from chloramine) before use.

Chloramine is often added to UK water supplies in an emergency ie burst pipe in the area.

Here is the last entry of a guy who lost £620 of fish due to chloramine being added to water and not using dechlorinator "as it is not necessary".....
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/410456-22-aquariums-wiped-out/


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## sciencefiction (17 Aug 2015)

My water report, does anyone make any sense of it?


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## sciencefiction (17 Aug 2015)

I uploaded a bit better format. I can't even figure the amount of chlorine from that report?


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> I can't even figure the amount of chlorine from that report?


No use whatsoever. This is the report showing that your water company is complying (well some are 92% compliant) with EU set maximum contaminant levels. If you are using dechlorinator with heavy metal removal it will remove the residual heavy metals in your water as well. There is no definite proof that heavy metals in UK water are high enough to cause fish & bacteria any issues. If worried (??) just use an HMA filter.

Chlorine levels in UK will be typically be 0.1ppm to 2ppm going to 5ppm in some cases. Above 1ppm you can start to smell & taste the chlorine in the water.

Here is a link about UK water treatment using chlorine.
http://www.staffs.ac.uk/schools/sci...min/zCIWEMPOTWAT/Activity5/act5.html#chlorine

UK use of chloramine.
http://www.staffs.ac.uk/schools/sci...dmin/zCIWEMPOTWAT/Activity5/act5.html#chloram

Link in toxicity of chlorine and chloramine for fish keeping (commercial large scale, but still applies for your tank).
http://web.utk.edu/~rstrange/wfs556/html-content/06-water.html


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## sciencefiction (17 Aug 2015)

Thanks Ian. I am not in the UK. I am in Ireland. The last time I found info on chlorine here, it said our levels are about 0.15ppm
I actually just read a link about chlorine causing deformities and other defects in humans too. So I don't doubt it's harmful.
I'll try to get Seachem Safe from amazon.com as soon as I can. That works out cheapest and easy to dose. Sodium Thiosulphate delivered here will cost me around 20 euro and then I can't measure it. HMA filter is out of question for varuous reasons.


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## naughtymoose (17 Aug 2015)

I 've got a three-stage HMA. Easy to plumb in, and you could even have it as de-mountable directly from your sink tap.


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> then I can't measure it


????

You dissolve 100gr (about 20 tsp) in 1litre of water and dose 1-2ml per 10l tank water. Done.


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## sciencefiction (17 Aug 2015)

How long does it last when dissolved?


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## roadmaster (17 Aug 2015)

Andy D said:


> Darrel,
> 
> Does it come down to exposure time? If we wash the sponges in tap water are they not exposed to the chlorine for long enough to have a detrimental affect?
> 
> I would assume that the chlorine level was high enough to kill bacteria or why add it?




One might could also assume that chlorine level's are possibly high enough to warrant the sales /recommendation of dechlorinator use No?


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## roadmaster (17 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> What is the damage if I do that long term?
> 
> I've been doing large water changes without dechlorinator for the last 4 weeks on two tanks.  That's because I ran out of dechlorinator and I kept the last bits for my big tank so my small tanks have been water changed without any at all.  In one of them I accidentally did 70% as I forgot the python draining and the tank is small, takes a few minutes to drain it.
> 
> ...



Might would find a way for the five tank's to produce income for you,or at least enough to afford dechlorinator.
I trade baby fishes/plant's to local fish store for store credit and this allow's me to get food's/supplies for the fishes I raise for next to nothing.
Could you do like wise or sell/trade to club/forum member's?


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> How long does it last when dissolved?


For ever.

Years ago (maybe 30 years) before marketing of hi-tech pricey dechlorinators, fish keepers used to the photographic fixer, "hypo" from camera shop, actually sodium thiosulphate.added to water as a dechlorinator.


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## Julian (17 Aug 2015)

ian_m said:


> For ever.
> 
> Years ago (maybe 30 years) before marketing of hi-tech pricey dechlorinators, fish keepers used to the photographic fixer, "hypo" from camera shop, actually sodium thiosulphate.added to water as a dechlorinator.


Does sodium thiosulphate neutralise Chloramine too?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

Julian said:


> Does sodium thiosulphate neutralise Chloramine too?


Yes, you just double dose, so 0.1gr to 0.3gr per 10l water will cover it.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/chlorine-chloramine


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## Julian (17 Aug 2015)

ian_m said:


> Yes, you just double dose, so 0.1gr to 0.3gr per 10l water will cover it.


Thanks mate. Just saved me a fortune. This needs to be stickied!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## xim (17 Aug 2015)

Julian said:


> Does sodium thiosulphate neutralise Chloramine too?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



Yes, but it just neutralises the Chlorine part, leaving Ammonia/Ammonium free. I used to use hypo and lost an Oto cat because of it.
That's the reason I switched back to Prime.


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## Julian (17 Aug 2015)

xim said:


> Yes, but it just neutralises the Chlorine part, leaving Ammonia/Ammonium free. I used to use hypo and lost an Oto cat because of it.
> That's the reason I switched back to Prime.


I don't have any live stock at the moment. The plants will take care of the ammonia, right?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## xim (17 Aug 2015)

That's right, no problem then.


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## roadmaster (17 Aug 2015)

Yes,plant's can take up ammonia but many do not begin with enough plants to not only take up ammonia portion of chloramines,but also from fish food's/fish waste/organic's possibly leaching from substrate.
Takes a fair amount of plant's I think.


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## ian_m (17 Aug 2015)

You only get ammonia if your water has chloramine, which is still quite rare in UK. The ammonia dose if any is quite small in fractions of a ppm so will be quickly taken out by plants and filter bacteria so generally not an issue.


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## roadmaster (18 Aug 2015)

ian_m said:


> You only get ammonia if your water has chloramine, which is still quite rare in UK. The ammonia dose if any is quite small in fractions of a ppm so will be quickly taken out by plants and filter bacteria so generally not an issue.



Agreed,only maybe a problem with Fish only tanks, and or new tank's with too few plant's, too many fish,too much food,= ammonia. in addition to that which is in most tapwater here in U.S.(Chloramine)
Once read that there is always ammonia present in tank's holding fishes at level's perhaps not high enough for our test kit's to measure, assuming biological activity/oxidizing is taking place at/in the substrate, and also as a by product of fishes/inverts assuming they are eating/breathing.
Am often in wonderment as to how I was able to keep many of the fishes I have cared for without the benefit of live plant's, and how much easier it became after learning from those here ,and elsewhere how to grow em much more successfully.
Unusual for and old dog to keep learning, but sometimes..the dog is a bit unusual.


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## ian_m (18 Aug 2015)

You can't also test for ammonia in the presence of sodium thiosulphate (or in fact most dechlorinators) as they cause false readings as they react with the chloride used in the dye indicator.


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## sciencefiction (28 Aug 2015)

I've been still doing the water changes without dechlorinator as I haven't been able to order some. They seem fine short term. But I will get some when I can.



roadmaster said:


> Takes a fair amount of plant's I think.


I've got more than enough plants. I think what's helping is my emergent huge plants in my big tank but then again I've been doing it in another 2 not so well planted tanks.



xim said:


> Yes, but it just neutralises the Chlorine part, leaving Ammonia/Ammonium free. I used to use hypo and lost an Oto cat because of it.
> That's the reason I switched back to Prime.



7 otto cats in one of my tanks haven't seen dechlorinator in many weeks and so far don't care about it. I don't argue that long term it could be dangerous. I am probably going to regret it all but right now its necessity.


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## Julian (30 Aug 2015)

If there is chlorine in my water, and I don't use dechlorinator, how long does it take to do its damage to the fish/filter bacteria? Is the damage instant or does it hurt them over time? Just wondering if its safe to add water to the tank first, and then add the dechlorinator immediately afterwards.

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## ian_m (31 Aug 2015)

Generally the chlorine kills bacteria in a couple of minutes. Fish show irritation symptoms in about same time as well.

If adding chlorinated water to your tank, you dose dechlorinator for full tank volume into tank then add water. Eg for 180 litre rank add dechlorinator for 180litres. Also filter pumps off whilst adding water. The dechlorinator dechlorinates effectively instantly.


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## sciencefiction (5 Sep 2015)

ian_m said:


> Generally the chlorine kills bacteria in a couple of minutes. Fish show irritation symptoms in about same time as well.



I read this the other day and it's been bugging me since. I normally use a python to do water changes which basically means I empty half the tank and then pour water straight from the tap into the tank back again. Many times, most times I've dosed the dechlorinator a lot more than 2 min after I start pouring the fresh water in.... Sometimes in the end.  So basically I've been doing it all wrong for years.

The odd times I had an issue is when I noticed my platies going to the surface during a water change and my pleco getting a few extra gulps from the surface. But I always thought it was lack of oxygen because all filters were stopped and it pretty much resolved itself each time I plugged the filters back in.


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## alto (6 Sep 2015)

_chlorine kills bacteria in a couple of minutes.
_
Not sure I agree - back when I took the Bio-Hazards course, we were taught the opposite, chlorine"kills" a small percentage of pathogens (including bacteria) in a few minutes, but exposure times of 10 -20 min (& 60min) are required for more rigorous sanitation ... if you just want to put bacteria into a "static" phase, that is more easily done.
Chorine remains the "sterilizing agent of choice" only because it is cheap, CHEAP, cheap ... the by-products are also well "understood" (researched, identified etc) so drinking water treatment continues to rely heavily on chlorine ... at one point, chloramine was heavily promoted, but that fell on the wayside when the by-products were found to be far-ranging, it's also (often) more $$ than chlorine so it's still in limited use (UK & some areas of the US embraced it, other countries ruled against it's use re certain by-products).
Depending on your water supplier, chlorine levels are rather lower at the point of use than at point of "sanitation" (local water system installed treatment stations as various points on the line to enable better control & reduce chlorine levels at line "start").

Adding water back with a good amount of splashing/aeration helps to offset incoming chlorine levels (not sure if this is due to increased aeration or "offed" chlorine, likely synergy).
It's recommended to leave filters running with "splash" when adding tap water directly to tank with a Python (sorry don't recall if that was in the "Use" videos that ran non-stop at local shops that sold the Python system - or if it came up in discussions ...)
If you're adding Prime it was recommended by Seachem (back when GM was on the forums) to add in a dose for entire tank volume at the start of refill, then, possibly a 2nd dose upon water refill completion (S had done considerable research before bringing this compound to market) as it was possible for Prime to be significantly neutralized by various components in tank, so if you had a situation of loads of organics in tank + maximum allowed chlorine levels, additional dosing might be needed to maintain minimal chlorine levels.


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## Julian (6 Sep 2015)

Adding full tank dose of dechlorinator after water has been taken out seems to be best practise here. I've got my bottle of sodium thiosulphate now, thanks for the tip Ian, will save me a fortune!

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## sciencefiction (6 Sep 2015)

alto said:


> Adding water back with a good amount of splashing/aeration helps to offset incoming chlorine levels (not sure if this is due to increased aeration or "offed" chlorine, likely synergy



That's exactly what I've been doing for years because I noticed it helps if you are filling up from the tap directly even though I always used dechlorinator.  If I don't put the water splashing on top,  whether I pour Prime or not on time, the fish may gasp. Which means I guess, Prime doesn't work instantly when you do large water changes as I normally do. I maybe wrong, but it's all trial and error.  It perhaps works eventually to prevent future problems.


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