# Lighting help on deep tank



## Ruke (16 Apr 2019)

Hi I have a tank that’s a 168cm long, 81cm W, 78cm H
The tank has a one piece euro brace. The tank is likely to be low tech with possibly low dose Co2 



 

Decided I want LEDs thinking of 

Fluval Plant 3.0 LED - Extendable range - 122-153 cm (48-60" Wattage - 59W Lumens - 4250lm Colour Temp. - 6500K

Will I need 2 of these? As I am looking for low to medium light but confused on water depth/ par 

Open to other suggestions. 

I would like kessil 360 suns but I would need 3 costing nearly a grand eek


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## obsessed (16 Apr 2019)

Low tech would be achievable but high tech you will need a healthy budget just for lighting and as you may know lots more gadgets to run it all. Sadly it would be cheaper to buy a new tank. 
Cheers


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## Ed Wiser (17 Apr 2019)

I wouldn’t set up that tank without the proper lighting and Co2. As wife would be upset with the result of fluval 3’s and no Co2 in her living room.


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## micheljq (17 Apr 2019)

I am clearly biased towards Grobeams.  3 Grobeam 1500, each has a coverage of 60cm X 60cm.

3 Grobeams 600 could be added for additionnal coverage at front-rear, since the tank is 81 cm wide, or 3 Aquabeam 600 Marine White 14000K.  They can be used as a compliment to the Grobeams 1500 if the tank is more than 22" high.

Assembled in UK, 5 years warranty, IP67, passively cooled.

Michel.


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## obsessed (17 Apr 2019)

Well were to start.. 79 cm deep. Do some research on planted tanks that deep.. you won't find many and the ones you do find have well over a grand in lights alone. 81 wide that's as long as the average tank. I'm not saying don't,carnt, or stop. Just my 2 p, I have 60 cm deep tank and substrate is around 7cm, I'd say I'm just about there with my current setup light wise. Check out my journal. Hence cheaper to buy shallower tank with less power needed. How long are your arms


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## obsessed (17 Apr 2019)

To add. if you know your goals with this particular size tank then that would help also, low or high tech theres nothing inbetween really, you say add a bit of co2. All or nothing with the co2.
Cheers


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## obsessed (17 Apr 2019)

Maybe I was a bit quick to post about your lighting, is your tank only 1000L   + - ?


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## Ruke (17 Apr 2019)

Ok been doing some research and mind is a boggled haha. 
Thanks for the advice. 
Not going to buy a different tank I wanted a big tank and that’s what I’m getting. 
So def low tech - no co2 with easy plants. 
Wish I had longer arms but a face mask and snorkel will help haha. 

Like the idea of TMC GroBeam 

Or 2 Fluval plant 3

I can add more spot light in the future 


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## Ruke (17 Apr 2019)

Yes 1200 to 1300 litres as also has a sump


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## obsessed (17 Apr 2019)

Wow nice. plenty of light choice with your low tech idea.
Cheers


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## alto (17 Apr 2019)

Ruke said:


> Fluva Plant 3.0 LED - Extendable range - 122-153 cm (48-60" Wattage - 59W Lumens - 4250lm Colour Temp. - 6500K



nIce  on paper, and a decent light if tank height is under 45cm
BUT
59watts / 336 LED ~ 0.2 watt LEDs, even if Fluval splurged on the high intensity version, PAR at 78cm distance isn’t going to make even “low” light by planted aquarium standards
(also note that the actual LEDs only run 115cm or so in length)

OTOH if you plan a hardscape such as Jurijs & Florian’s scape from taotpa 

https://www.facebook.com/J.Jurijs/photos/a.258823010905528/2067255143395630/?type=3&theater


Juwel Lido 120 (58cm tall) - confirm lighting used with Juwel  (I suspect twin HOT5 with reflectors)
BUT CO2 plus relatively low light makes for a much “happier” plant place than the same light sans CO2



Note the plant species used, also how much plant density is moved closer to light through use of the tall wood

Juwel presented a much more advanced plant scape at Interzoo 2018, again using a LIDO aquarium, with their new  HeliaLux LED

Filipe Oliveira has several examples on his FB/Youtube Channel of 70-90cm tall Aquariums - lighting details are often listed or query answered in Comments

eg,
Aquaflora Canteen Aquarium
150 x 60 x 90cm (high)



> Old T5 4x 54w that were replaced this year by AquaIllumination Freshwater Prime


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## Edvet (17 Apr 2019)

I run a Giesemann HQI ( 2 x 125W) and two T5 80W HO tubes with reflectors over my 1500 liter tank which has a glass height of 80 cm
I also use 2 TMC grobeam tiles as spotlighting.


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## Ruke (17 Apr 2019)

Looking at this video 

3x AI prime freshwater hd suspended on a rail system or hanging bracket would look nice


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Plus the million watts of flouresent lights in the canteen. The ai prime will cover 35cm x 35cm at best but will punch down 60cm in a low tech situation.

 Alto his tank is 80 wide mate


alto said:


> Filipe Oliveira has several examples on his FB/Youtube Channel of 70-90cm tall Aquariums - lighting details are often listed or query answered in Comments


If I was oliviera I would..


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## alto (18 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> Plus the million watts of flouresent lights in the canteen.


 Why that assumption???
Tank is in the canteen not the nursery 
(sorry can’t find the video that shows more of the Canteen - pretty bog standard as I recall - with the exception of those fantastic altums)

As for the AI Primes being subpar (I’m certain these are the new HD’s), I guess we have different expectations of plant growth, I’d be pretty happy with that altum aquascape ... I suspect the altums are also satisfied with the lower light levels 

Granted the AI Prime HDs are not in the same class as Kessil’s new A360X  but then the price is rather more approachable 

Re the 80cm width of the tank, add in a single row of HOT5 with proper reflectors, or rocky (sandy) beach zone at tank front  (or upgrade to the Hydra HD’s )

Of course there’s always the DIY approach with various non-aquarium branded “spots” 
(few examples on ukaps I believe)


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## alto (18 Apr 2019)

@Ruke 
What are your livestock plans?


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## Fiske (18 Apr 2019)

Why not do a paludarium style thing with eg. splash tetras (Copella sp.) or hatchetfish, or some Pantodon. Halfbeaks could work well too. 
Something along these lines https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/splash-tetra-paludarium.40062/

That's what I'd do if I had a tank this high...


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

alto said:


> Why that assumption???



I've never been there so my assumption is that the additional light from daily operations of the room weather it be a canteen hallway,reception. just saying. We don't have that.. or the minions to maintain at that depth. All shop lights work a treat set up correctly. I'm being realistic about the depth, plus the euro brace will cause slight headaches. it becomes a chore and like the op said snorkel and mask.
Alto
 I know you know your onions,I'm not disagreeing  with you. Theres so many choices with lighting it becomes a minefield of par, watts, lumens. 



obsessed said:


> Low tech would be achievable but high tech you will need a healthy budget just for lighting and as you may know lots more gadgets to run it all.



Like I said even with low tech it will still cost a far bit when there so much more to it. The op eeked at a grand for lights,which tells me that's to much money, I'm sure theres many members on here that have 80cm deep tanks, let's wait for them to tell us there light budget and I mean in there front room with plants growing successfully.
Cheers


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Edvet said:


> I run a Giesemann HQI ( 2 x 125W) and two T5 80W HO tubes with reflectors over my 1500 liter tank which has a glass height of 80 cm
> I also use 2 TMC grobeam tiles as spotlighting.


hi
How wide is your tank?
The giesemann HQI are a really nice bit of kit.
Cheers


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

My most used tool on my 60cm deep tank.


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## Ruke (18 Apr 2019)

Hi been reading with interest and looking at lots of options. 

The 3 x kessil suns 360x are starting to look the best option in light and looks. They are currently priced at 495 each so 1500 if I get 3. 

I’m willing to spend the money but would like to reduce the risk of algae problems with high light/high tech. 

Not sure on livestock yet but I like a shoal of small fish. 


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Great looking puck light, I've read a little about them they seem to do the job well. you can also buy the controller x for controlling the output.Good investment.


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Have a look at EcoTec radions fw, This was my first choice but a little steep, I will buy them next when I change or upgrade.


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## Ruke (18 Apr 2019)

Would this work for a planted tank?

Maxspect Recurve R6-120 LED
 http://www.maxspect.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=271&Itemid=775&lang=en

As going to get the controller for the 2 max gyros 

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## Edvet (18 Apr 2019)

200x 80/120 x 80 cm.


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## Ruke (18 Apr 2019)

Edvet said:


> 200x 80/120 x 80 cm.



What do you mean?

The tank used to have one on top as a marine set up 






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## tacy k (18 Apr 2019)

My tank is 76cm deep (198 L x 60W). It is still a work in progress but I am growing plants successfully with two rows of fluval 3.00 Plant, with Co2 and feeding three times a week with TNC complete. My 'carpet' plant is cryptocoryne which is about 15cms tall. I have tried and failed to grow anything that requires high lighting but Ludwigia repens 'Rubin' is thriving. The plants would probably do better if I didn't have seven clown loaches continually digging them up!


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## Edvet (18 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> How wide is your tank?


Size was in reply to this 
Let side is 80 cm front to back and right side is 120 cm front to back


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## alto (18 Apr 2019)

Ruke said:


> Maxspect Recurve R6-120 LED


Maxspect builds gorgeous reef lights (their foray into freshwater ended rather quickly)
With adjustable spectrum you can generally select more suitable freshwater plant lighting but often at significant loss of lumens (eg, one light designed for reef but also marketed for freshwater application, used ~ 30% of available wattage for the latter)

The Recurve was discontinued early this year with US reef shops clearing them out at 50% discount, so look for similar price reductions 

This intro video shows the puck distribution and strip LED


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## alto (18 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> EcoTec radions fw,


You’ll find some ukaps journals with these lights, but also owners swapping them out for different lighting 

The software (control) issues are significant (though perhaps this has finally been redesigned)

Also unless new driver technology has been implemented, spectrum changes with intensity


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Edvet said:


> Size was in reply to this


Not getting you..
I'm sure I asked before you posted the size.
If not sorry to ask again.


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## obsessed (18 Apr 2019)

Do plenty of research mate before you let go of you hard earned.
 Good luck ruke


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## Ruke (20 Apr 2019)

Found this light which looks nice with good power

 http://www.aquariumsystems.fr/en/aquatic/eclairage/series-6-freshwater/








Add a Fluval Plant 3.0 LED 59w if required or kessil


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## alto (20 Apr 2019)

It looks to be a gorgeous light but I’d want more details on the specs AND some display tanks (garnelen haus has a short video but plants are still in emerse state and all “easy” plants, the light app effects are nicely shown)

- from 1 site, LEDs are done with 90 and 120 degree lens - which is which?

Given the back to front measurement of your tank, and this unit only being 20cm wide, where is the light going to fall, and how concentrated is that light directly below the unit vs at the outer edges?

Arcadia should have PAR etc measurements of the light distribution curves
How does this change with selected spectrum?
How does this change with selected intensity?

(Kessil A360X attempts to deliver more even distribution of the light fall over the “recommended” 60x60cm area)

I’m asssuming you’re intending to suspend the light (as seen in the video)

ETA I wouldn’t mix this with a Fluval 3.0


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## Ruke (20 Apr 2019)

alto said:


> It looks to be a gorgeous light but I’d want more details on the specs AND some display tanks (garnelen haus has a short video but plants are still in emerse state and all “easy” plants, the light app effects are nicely shown)
> 
> - from 1 site, LEDs are done with 90 and 120 degree lens - which is which?
> 
> ...



Thanks for 4 the advice 


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## Filip Krupa (21 Apr 2019)

Hey Luke,

Just an option.
My tank is 75cm deep. I use 9 x 50w LED floodlights.
No issues.

Fil


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (21 Apr 2019)

Is it true then that point source lights (vs strip) are better and "penetrating" deeper tanks?


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## Tomiam (28 Apr 2019)

Interested in this as well.
Ive a new 90 x 26 x 30 deep tank arriving.
Looking to have some low light plants (anubis and moss) around the middle of bottom.  Ie. Some large pieces of bogwood / stone with low light plants on them.
Im torn between 4 x fluval 3.0s (46w) or 4 x 1500 ultra grobeams. 
I'll be auto dosing ferts.
.
Ot a tank that ever going to have high light plants in it.  Just some easy beginner plants.
.
Anyone using grobeams or fluval 3.0s in mutiples in a tank this deep?
Id be interested in your experiences.


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## Tom Michael (28 Apr 2019)

How about ADA Solar RGB? Ada have them over 60 cm aquariums growing tight carpets, and some distance from the water line. Not cheap though


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## Tomiam (29 Apr 2019)

They are indeed not cheap but then i guess it is what it is at 30" deep.
My local maidenhead aquatics has a very knowledgeable chap there and he is going to call Hagen to get some advice from their technical team.
Ive also been looking at the AI Prime HD which claims a PAR of 100 @24 inches.
Its got 80 deg lens which will help but being new to this... im unsure if they'll be sufficient with just 4 of them.


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## Tomiam (29 Apr 2019)

Ok...
I've got some info from Hagen (Fluval) on the par readings of their Fluval Plant 3.0 46W LED lights.
Sharing here in the hope that it helps someone in the future.

Fluval Plant 3.0 46W LED.
6" 267 par
12" 112 par
18" 66 par
24" 40 par

I'm going to go for 4 of these units, in two rows of 2.   
I do appreciate not many people attempt to grow plants at a depth of 30" and thus I'm going low light & easy care plants and also bringing the plants up to the light via bogwood & rock (moss & anubis).

I ended up basing this decision on :-
What am I trying to achieve? - Grow low light requiring easy to care for plants like mosses, anubis etc.   I'm not trying to light an incredible aquascape with full planting.  
Availability of each unit.  If I could have found a Finnex Ray 2 supplier in the UK a few days ago, I'd likely have bought them instead.
Ease of use.  Having used the smart app from fluval on a light unit at a Maidenhead Aquatics, I found them VERY easy to use and set up.  It also offered a lot of flexability in set up, like ramp up times over X hours at X intensity.
Support: 3 year guarantee (if purchased from authorised suplier) vs 6 months / 1 year from a lot of others.   Ive bought mind from Maidenhead Aquatics who were happy to price match Swell.
Other: I read that some people were having issues with Kessils, where they broke after a year and couldn't get any support.  I've read that Grobeams whine when put onto a dimmer, and the dimmer is an extra £250 but only controls 4 units. Likewise it looses it's settings in a power cut whereas the Plant 3.0's just need to be turned back on.
I'm not trying to say any of the other options I've mentioned are bad, it's just what I've read.
Twinstar 1200 looks really good, but price of 4 of them vs Fluval Plant 3.0 is too great for me to justify what I need them to do.

I hope this info proves useful for someone in the future as I couldn't find any par readings for the fluval plant 3.0 online, although I do appreciate that par values stated by manufacturer are likely to be best case scenarios.


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## Nephilim (29 Apr 2019)

Only recently trying aquascaping. But I did have 80cm deep marine setup. I went with metal halide at first. Which punched a go depth of the tank and was 40cm hung above. The par at the substrate was good enough to help sps {small polyp hard corals} to grow. But the cost of running them was to high. I searched for HQ t5 tube set up and found a company doing 4/6/8 banks. But at over a  £1000. I thought could find cheaper. I did. I used Maxibright light unit. Theyre designed for hydroponics so run red and green spectrum lights. But I swapped them over to use guiessemen(spelling) and various different colours such as actinic and pinks to help with coral growth. These Maxibright units are relatively cheap but require you to by hanging wire kit. There is no protective clear sheet over the tubes nor any fan system to reduce heat created. But the 8 bank 60cm wide 120cm long unit I had was more that adequate to light up my marine set up. But with 8x54w you have over 400watts of light. With the gull wing reflectors that's some light coverage. I'd recommend them to anyone. Not as cheap as led lights. But cheaper than halide lighting. I changed tubes every 6-8months. Instead of the normal 12-18months. They're available on ebay. But Google them and have a think.


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## alto (9 May 2019)

Tomiam said:


> Twinstar 1200 looks really good, but price of 4 of them vs Fluval Plant 3.0 is too great for me to justify what I need them to do.


2 x Twinstar would be more inline with the output of Fluval 3.0 but you’d still need to add a controller 
As you’re not hoping to grow a HC carpet at a depth of 30inches, the Fluval should deliver everything you want  

Having a retailer with good customer support is important


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## Edvet (10 May 2019)

Nephilim said:


> I changed tubes every 6-8months. Instead of the normal 12-18months


Basically you dont need to change T5's until they fail. They drop a few percent in the first few months but stay stable till fail after that. They will last for years.


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## micheljq (10 May 2019)

Edvet said:


> Basically you dont need to change T5's until they fail. They drop a few percent in the first few months but stay stable till fail after that. They will last for years.



It depends a lot on the quality of the bulb itself.  Some like Giesemann are rated 20000 hours and can be runned for many years, with a drop of probably 5-7%.  But you cannot say this from all the bulbs in the market, quality is disparate.  Osram's can probably be runned for a lot of time too.

Michel.


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## idris (12 May 2019)

I am absolutely no expert on lights or plants, but I've had a 75cm deep tank for some years.
It has been lit with 2x38w T8s, no CO2 and no ferts. The substrate is Adakama. So about as low tech as you can go, and (on paper) very little light.

Firstly, as mentioned by others, having a deep tank is a PITA, even with long arms. The lower the base, the easier it will be to maintain it..

As for what has worked for me with plants, I have always gone for easy plants - valis, crypts, swords, wysteria, that sort of thing. I've had a go with hair grass, and for a while had great success with Taiwan moss on tall hardscape.
When I've been my most diligent in maintaining, and the T8s have been in good condition, the tank has done pretty well.

My (old) journal is here.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/tall-250l-y-llechen-ogof.15588/page-8






The tank has been neglected recently, so looks nowhere near this good at the moment, but even after over a year without lights on, valis, c.wenditi and anubias have survived remarkably well.

My point is, don't be put off by anyone who says you need huge amounts of expensive lights and pressurised CO2 for a deep tank. You don't!


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