# I’m going digging



## aec34 (1 Jan 2021)

When it thaws out a bit, I’m heading to the garden to get some soil for a low tech bowl, likely just for trimmings from my other tanks and eventually overflow shrimp - anyone got any tips as to what to look for beyond ‘nice soil’? Thought I’d start at the bottom of the compost dalek first, then sift out any chunky bits.


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## Kezzab (1 Jan 2021)

I'd be wary of the compost heap, just coz of the really high organic content. I think it could cause you water quality issues. Although the co2 it will release might also work in your favour.

I've used molehill soil in the past, and also wild pond sludge. In both cases I initially had BBA problems before they settled.


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## aec34 (1 Jan 2021)

Thanks @Kezzab, that’s really useful


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## castle (1 Jan 2021)

You'll definitely get more than you bargain for in returns of nutrients in soil, I used to dig under the lawn, take a buckets worth of soil, mix with sand and then cap. Works well enough, will do that again in future.


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## Affinis (7 Jan 2021)

I find mole hill soil is really good


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## ScareCrow (7 Jan 2021)

I'm currently trying oak and beech leaf mould mixed with some cat litter to keep the structure open. I also added some miracle grow slow release fertiliser, to extend the life/enrich the soil. It has been a couple of months but not a lot has happened.


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## aec34 (7 Jan 2021)

Thanks - I gathered a tub of what was the consistency of molehill soil, then mixed with some sand/fine gravel. Turns out I’ve not topped it with enough gravel (only 1/4 - 1/2” or so) so adding a bit more is a job for the weekend 🙄 Cloudiness passed pretty quickly though, which was a surprise.


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## not called Bob (7 Jan 2021)

I went for John Innes, dirt cheap  graded and screened so less chance of nasties, but interested how it turns out


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## dw1305 (8 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


not called Bob said:


> ......... but interested how it turns out


It depends a little bit on how much you use, and whether it was <"JI No3 etc">.  A lot of people have used the <"potting soil they sell for Water Lilies"> etc successfully.  I've not tried it, but I think <"Westland Aquatic Compost"> is the preferred option. @Tim Harrison is your "go to" <"source for soil based tanks">.


not called Bob said:


> less chance of nasties


Personally, I'm like @Affinis and it is <"mole hills for me">. The rationale is that the moles are after earthworms and earthworms aren't going to be abundant in polluted soil.

The slight worry for me is that the "loam" component of JI mixes is the soil riddled from Potatoes (and/or Sugar Beet) during processing for crisps etc. and it can potentially contain residual nutrients (and possibly persistent herbicides and potentially insecticides etc), but I'm probably making a mountain out of molehill.  

cheers Darrel


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## not called Bob (8 Jan 2021)

Yeap it was the soil based tanks guide I followed, seems to work nothing melted and _there's growth and no alagal issues, interesting they are collecting the waste soil and finding a use and value for it. 

I Have used clumping cat litter before, mainly as it was a very large area to plant and aquatic soil is rather expensive per kg, but this was outside and not in an aquaria _


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## ScareCrow (9 Jan 2021)

I think if you want to go the cat litter route in an aquarium it's suggested to use the non-clumping variety. I can't give first hand experience on this though as I've only used non-clumping. I'm just repeating information given here: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cat-litter.25923/
There's also more discussion about cat litter here: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cat-litter.8572/


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Feb 2021)

Slightly off Topic but I've some future plans for a soiled cube, going to wait until the temperature gets warmer as I'm probably going to try with no equipment except lighting. Near me there's a stream and under the bridge where it meanders there's a small beach with very fine sand on it. It's quite orangey/brown in colour so I suspect it's mainly made up of sandstone sand. Will this be ok to both mix with soil and has a top layer? Just thinking sandstone is quite soft so will probably release "something" into the water.

Also what about digging up from the bank of the river for soil where quite a lot of vegetation decomposition has happened or will this be too rich in organics?


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## dw1305 (12 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Will this be ok to both mix with soil and has a top layer? Just thinking sandstone is quite soft so will probably release "something" into the water.


Should be fine, the matrix holding the sand grains together might be soft, but the grains themselves are quartz and really hard.


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Also what about digging up from the bank of the river for soil where quite a lot of vegetation decomposition has happened or will this be too rich in organics?


Just don't add much in.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Should be fine, the matrix holding the sand grains together might be soft, but the grains themselves are quartz and really hard.


If I'm honest it may not be comprising of sandstone, I think it's just because further up stream there's a sand stone bridge and I'm putting 2 and 2 and getting five. 
I find it a really odd place, it's on a freshwater beck but if you cut out the background you would swear you are at the beach the way the sand and stones look.


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## dw1305 (12 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> if you cut out the background you would swear you are at the beach the way the sand and stones look.


Where is it? I know you are in W. Cumbria, so you have <"sandstone deposits"> at the coast. 

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Feb 2021)

It's in Whitehaven mate which is on the west coast, the river is maybe five or more miles inland as the crow flies. There's mainly just usual rounded basalt cobbles in the river but every now and again you come across a sand bank. Birds nest in these, I'll get a picture next time I'm up there. That's what makes me think about creating a dirty cube. The majority of stuff I could get right at that bend on the river and tbh it all looks exactly the same as what people are paying top dollar for in scaping materials.


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> but every now and again you come across a sand bank.


It could be where it <"crosses the sandstone">, or it might be water worked glacial till, or possibly loess (or other aeolian deposit) from periglacial conditions.

Another option would be the <"remains of raised beaches">. When the <"Lake District Glacier"> finally melted ~12,000 years ago the weight was removed and the land rebounded, leading to both a rise and fall in relative sea levels. 


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> The majority of stuff I could get right at that bend on the river and tbh it all looks exactly the same as what people are paying top dollar for in scaping materials.


My thoughts as well, you honestly couldn't live in a better place for pyo decor. You've got  complex geology, with a lot of different old hard rocks, glacial deposits with erratics etc., some huge storm beaches with driftwood, heather moorland and trees like Junipers and Oaks.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> leading to both a rise and fall in relative sea levels.


There's a pub at the bottom of my hill called the Distressed Sailor which seems like an odd name for a boozer so far inland, don't know how true it is but apparently it was called this because ships used to be able to sail from Whitehaven Harbour to St Bees along that route. The water was drained out when the Harbour was built and gates were put on. Probably is about right though, the valley between the harbours is extremely prone to flooding, a few years ago someone forgot to open the gates and flooded the entire area. There's house built in that valley called Mirehouse. Clues in the name 


dw1305 said:


> some huge storm beaches with driftwood, heather moorland and trees like Junipers and Oaks.


Always been a bit cagey with wood, very difficult for the layman to know what tree it used to be and some like pine I hear a no no. The sand is good though other than its reddish colour, doesn't look dissimilar to builders sand. In fact when you work in construction round our way you tend to find most of the concrete slabs or in founds are made up of pebbles rather than stone. Some of the larger construction companies own the rights to quarry off designated beaches.


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> because ships used to be able to sail from Whitehaven Harbour to St Bees along that route....The sand is good though other than its reddish colour,


Probably sea sand then, but it doesn't sound like it has much maerl or shell in it. I wouldn't have any reservations about using it.


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Always been a bit cagey with wood,


Any bits of wood that don't smell resiny and/or have lost their bark should be fine.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Probably sea sand then, but it doesn't sound like it has much maerl or shell in it. I wouldn't have any reservations about using it.


Just to clarify mate the river I was collecting from is nowhere near that area, it's a lot further inland. What you said first is probably right, the river banks upstream are sandy so it probably washed down from there and settled on the bend forming a beach areas. i wouldn't like to dig in the banks further up because of the fact birds are nesting in them. I assume they're birds anyway. Not sure what other animal would dig holes out of the sand banks.


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I assume they're birds anyway. Not sure what other animal would dig holes out of the sand banks.


If they are up the bank above from the water level? The <"Sand Martin"> is the most likely excavator, they won't arrive back for ~6 weeks or so.

cheers Darrel


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