# Last ditch attempt at saving my scape



## Richard Dowling (6 Mar 2014)

Hi All,

I have brown algae issues as constantly highlighted in my journal. I am finding it impossible to resolve the situation. Its now turned into brown hair algae. CO2 Increase has failed to help (been running ok for a over a week but randomly gassed out my fish this afternoon causing me to have to do an emergency water change)

As nothing is working Im guessing blackout may be my only option, but does this actually restore the tank to a nice green and clear state once you get it going again? Im looking at all my plants and dont feel this is salvageable but ive spent so much money getting to this point I simply cannot afford to start again.

Ive had a full trim today but I dont see what you can do about the bottom inch of all the plants.


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## Richard Dowling (6 Mar 2014)




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## Dan Wiggett (6 Mar 2014)

Increase Co2, Increase flow, reduce lighting photo period and intensity, provide more ferts. Usual stuff


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## Richard Dowling (6 Mar 2014)

Ive increased CO2 and have done so for a while now, to no effect....tonight my fish gassed out so I had to do a 50% water change. My drop checker is yellow so cannot do anything more CO2 related.

Flow is at the highest I can get it, Its a 1200lph filter on an 80L tank, Ive even cut the spray bar down to 20 odd centimeters to increase the circulation because 40cm wasnt hitting the other end hard enough.

Photoperiod I havnt reduced but the intensity has been down as low as 20% and is currently at 35% because 20% failed to work over a two month period.

Ferts I may need to review, Im using the AquariumPlantFood EI suggested measurements but Ive never doubted it


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## NC10 (6 Mar 2014)

I can't help you on the the algae issue, but I'd seriously suggest checking the flow rate for yourself.

The manufacturers tend to exaggerate flow rates anyway, and even then that's their rate straight out of the pump with no head or restrictions. I have a 2000 lph pump and with an educated guess, taking into account head height etc I came to a figure of around 1200lph. It wasn't until I did an actual test that I found out it was only kicking out just over 500lph.

If the tetratec is 1200, it's close to the 10 times recommended turnover anyway without taking into account any restrictions.

I'm not sure if this will help or not with your problem, but it's worth knowing errr just so you know really  I bet you'll be shocked anyway.

Just a get a 1 litre jug and time how long it takes to fill. You'll probably need another person to time you and do the whole on your marks, get set, go thing  Just divide the seconds in an hour by the seconds on your stopwatch, obviously, = your true lph Make sure you do it as close to were the outlet actually is for a more accurate result.


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## clone (6 Mar 2014)

Hi, brown algae or diatoms are part of tank matureing so will go away naturaly. U can try h2o2 hydroxyvperoxide. For 30 liter tank I added 10 ml, and swich off your filter or will bleach the beneficial bacteria for24 hours. Then do waterchange the method is harmless if you dont overfose. Take your critters out as well. Before nuking the tank. H2O2 need 24h do deactivate it is H2O2=O2+,H2O
 from my ST18i using Tapatalk 2


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## Martin in Holland (7 Mar 2014)

It seems that brown algae ones have established, they are not easy to "kill"....(I have/had the same problem)....a good flow (not only to the diffuser but all over), a good CO2, clean filter(s), low light (I did a 4 day blackout), not over feeding and keep scrubbing is helping in my tank. I also believe that more plant help too.


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## Richard Dowling (7 Mar 2014)

Regarding flow, I do unfortunately have a shrimp mesh guard on my inlet, coupled with long hoses and my filter is below the tank in my cabinet.

I may risk removing the guard, cutting down the hoses and increasing the length of my spray bar across the length of the tank instead of the width.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## Martin in Holland (7 Mar 2014)

I never had (in non of my tanks) used any kind of guard preventing shrimp from unwillingly entering the filter...and yes, some ended up in the filter, but most survived.
You could also put a small power head into the tank. There are power heads you can attache to a spray bar.


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## James O (7 Mar 2014)

You could try removing your fish temporarily so you can go bananas with the CO2.  Then maybe thin out some of your filter media and/or move your filter up and out of the cabinet so it's level with the tank to increase flow (alternatively a cheap no name powerhead might help)


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## Richard Dowling (7 Mar 2014)

I cant put my spray bar at the back of the tank I now find, because the CO2 just rises directly behind it and goes out the top.

I really wish I hadnt spent over a grand getting this far because right now I just want to tear it down and sell it. I look at my equipment compaired to people that have crystal clear algaeless tanks and from what I can see I should be on par. Even the simple things like having fish swimming around isnt happening! They all hide for the entire photoperiod! Something thats supposed to be fun is becoming more stressful than work!


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## NC10 (7 Mar 2014)

Don't get too down about it mate, not everyone is as honest as you. No one just appears with an immaculate tank overnight having had no problems, they just choose to hide those facts 

Where did you put your spraybar? Can you buy an inline diffuser, would that help?

Just had another re-read though your posts. Am I right thinking the only thing you haven't changed is the amount of time you have the lights on? If so, just drop the amount of time they're on, but keep them on a more normal/higher intensity. Start on the Co2 just before the lights and obviously ending just before lights out. May also help with the fish too??


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## Jafooli (7 Mar 2014)

Hi Richard

I know exactly how you feel, I'm also suffering from exactly the same brown smudgy diatom mess as you, during the last 2-3 weeks it just appeared, I'm from Rochester so not that far from you. I find that strange as I presume your with south east water as well. Anyway I don't think our problem is due to our water supply as diatoms are mainly because of to much light or a immature tank I think. However I don't think my diatoms are from either of them issues so its odd.

I've received great help from this forum and there are also many threads about diatoms on here which have also helped me. I'm still battling the brown algae, I have tried a 4 day black out, it helped but didn't kill it all. I then noticed it was still spreading on my glass/plants. I then did a soft black out which is just turning the lights out. That helped also, along with many water changes. Around 70% a week. I tried to increase flow all over my tank. I changed my diffuser location, I changed my whole EI dosing from a starter guide which was dosing 10ml every 50 litre, and I now have measured and dose all my powders dry. I now know exactly what I dose rather than using a guide. 

I tried to rub as much brown algae of the leafs as I could but with carpeting plants this was nearly impossible, my plants were brown, they looked dead, they were rotting, leafs were falling off, the tank looked dead. I was going to remove some of my dead plants at its worst point, but I left them in hope. After doing all this, a few days later I noticed green patches on all my plants leafs, no not green spot algae, but the brown algae was receding. I could see green again I couldn't believe it especially with my echinodorus! I then started to see new growth, green tips from all my plants, each day its going bit by bit, I've got a long way to go. But my plants are fighting back, and my stauro repens and glosso, which all looked dead, are not putting out tiny green shots at the substrate. 

So don't give up, I felt really depressed with my tank, I've only ever had 2 aquariums and my first was about 2 years ago which was just fish and plants, I new nothing about this hobby, who ever looks at a fish tank in a shop and would guess there is a site just dedicated to the stuff that is going on inside it which you can't see , and I've learnt more on this forum in the last 2 weeks, that any other website or information I found on Google. So don't give up. I think it just takes patients, as mentioned above it don't happen over night. My tank is so embarrassing compared to tanks on here. But I didn't give up and my plants are now fighting back.

In regards to your fish, mine would do the same, I would walk in my room sit down and my tank would be empty, even though I have like over 22 fish in there, I would then notice all the fish hiding at the bottom in a corner breathing rapidly. I didn't understand back then, I did so much research I was told it could be stray voltage, I wasted money going down that road and to this day I still don't know how to find out about stray voltage, but when I turned CO2 off for a few days they all came out more and the weird rapid breathing went away. I never once thought it was CO2 as I've seen fish gasping before at the surface etc, and mine was doing it at the bottom which was odd. 

I now keep my CO2 low and surface agitation up, and it seems to help, however with my 200 litre tank I've never achieved a green drop checker, when I try turn my co2 up, the fish mostly in the last hour or two of the photoperiod start acting odd, rapid breathing, hiding, eradicate swimming, so I can never get a green drop checker even though I know its only a guide to co2 levels, but I find it hard with in tank diffusers to dissolve all the bubbles. 

It was only yesterday I turned it up from 1.2bps to 1.5bps and my fish acted strange again in the last 1-2 hours of the photoperiod, I tried to up my CO2 slow so they could adapt as I read it can take 24 hours for fish to adapt, but nope. 

I know my tank is only 200 litres but I have 3 small clown loaches, yesterday for the very first time I even witnessed one rise to the surface for a gulp of air, and I could see he didn't look right as he look dazed out, he managed to get to the surface though. Today for the first time since I've purchased them, all 3 never came out of my ornament, I started to think the worst, but as soon as lights went out they came out thankfully, and today I have lowered CO2, its to stressful for me I just cant get CO2 right in my tank.

I'm actually thinking of just giving up with pressurised co2 and trying carbon instead. Imo I dissolve all my CO2 quite good, blue drop checker, still gassing fish. Sometimes there are no answer.
Anyway my fish have to come first. 

I could go on all night about my problems and what problems I've had, its not easy growing plants, especially for me. But I wouldn't give up, because when it does go right, its such a joy to sit back, admire what you've done, and watch the fish show there natural behaviour. That to me is worth carrying on, and its more of an achievement when you do get there in the end. I hope you can see your not alone, and I know your plants are more carpeting plants, but I'm sure they will bounce back, even when you think there dead! Hopefully things can only get better for you now. Sorry to go on and on, but I don't think you should give up, give it a month or two 

Good luck! I hope things do work out for you, as its not nice.


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## Martin in Holland (8 Mar 2014)

All I can say is, don't give up, see this all as a challenge. Nobody here started a tank without any problems, I'm sure.


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## Andy Thurston (8 Mar 2014)

If your gassing the fish at the end of the photoperiod turn the gas off earlier, co2 needs to be at its highest level at lights on, its not as critical at the end of the day
Shortern photoperiod to 5-6 hours too.
And is there any other light hitting the tank?
Remove most media from the filter. Im running a 2217 with just 2 coarse sponges in my 60l cube


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## Richard Dowling (8 Mar 2014)

Big clown said:


> If your gassing the fish at the end of the photoperiod turn the gas off earlier, co2 needs to be at its highest level at lights on, its not as critical at the end of the day
> Shortern photoperiod to 5-6 hours too.
> And is there any other light hitting the tank?
> Remove most media from the filter. Im running a 2217 with just 2 coarse sponges in my 60l cube



My fish appear gassed for the entire photoperiod not just the end, like jafooli above, my fish hide from start until lights out.

No direct light hitting tank, just dim ambient room light

I'll try removing some media. I could reduce co2 time but according to most people that's what got me in this position in the first place.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk


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## Iain Sutherland (8 Mar 2014)

hey richard, dont beat yourself up about it.  I can tell you that due to not having any time my 60p is in a similar mess.  Brown algae/diatoms  etc...
I have just yesterday started a regime to try and get it back on track and its nothing new, daily water changes up to 100%, reduce light intensity, 5 hr light period and giving the tank 30 minutes every day just to keep it spotless.
I have always found the only way to deal with diatoms if they dont burn themselves out is cleaning and WC.  If i were you id remove the fish until sorted and over dose liquid carbon as well which works well but would annihilate my UG.
Try not to get down about it though, i promise you that we all had lots of issues when starting out and most of us still get issues its just experience means we can fix the problem without too much fuss.... algae becomes a chore not an issue.  
Spend the time now figuring out how to get it sorted and next time you wont sweat diatoms, it really is the only way to learn.
chin up!


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## Ben Hooper (14 Mar 2014)

I can recommend hydrogen peroxide (if used correctly) I dip and spray a 3% solution and am winning at last!


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