# What deficiency is this ?



## aquagenetics (29 Nov 2021)

Hey Everyone,

since 3 weeks im using EI dosing now, and still seeing some kind of deficiency, i am wondering if this could be magnesium ? (i am using Tapwater) no chlorine, because i live in the Netherlands.
im using the attached schema for the EI recipe, i am not using rest days i dose alternatively between MICRO and MACRO'S. The plants are pearling so i dont know what is the problem.
so what i noticed was that in this site i ordered from, they dont use Magnesium. so that might be the culprit ?
i change 50 % water every week.

Thanks in advance!


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## MrClockOff (29 Nov 2021)

Hi there, 

assuming the CO2 drop checker means you're using CO2 injection and looking at the type of algae you've got I think the main reason of your problem is CO2 rather that fertz. Since you're using EI for 3 weeks it should cover any deficiencies well except in some circumstances Fe when PH is 7 or above and EDTA chelated Fe was used. The new growth is looking pale which suggest micro nutrients are limited or depleted and pale usually means lack of available Fe. 

I'd suggest to look at CO2 issue first and check if you have correct Fe chelator. 

Cheers


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## aquagenetics (29 Nov 2021)

MrClockOff said:


> Hi there,
> 
> assuming the CO2 drop checker means you're using CO2 injection and looking at the type of algae you've got I think the main reason of your problem is CO2 rather that fertz. Since you're using EI for 3 weeks it should cover any deficiencies well except in some circumstances Fe when PH is 7 or above and EDTA chelated Fe was used. The new growth is looking pale which suggest micro nutrients are limited or depleted and pale usually means lack of available Fe.
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for the fast reply, as you can see in the 2nd picture i am injecting co2 yes, and its lime green so what could be the problem here ? 
how can i have deficiency's in FE if i dose EI ? thats the weird thing about it which i dont understand. 

what could be the case is that im having 20mg/l co2 drop check fluid, i am gonna order 30mg/l co2 drop check fluid because on this one i cant see if its for 30 or 20 mg/l


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## Konsa (29 Nov 2021)

Hi there
Will you please provide more details.
Tank size,filtration, lighting  and photoperiod, how long before lights on the CO2 comes on and when you get the lime green drop checker(for example when the lights come on,one or two ,3 hours after lights come on),temperature of the tank.
If Mg is not found in your water supply then that may be your limiting nutrient.You can easily rectify that by adding Epsom salt to your  Macro solution .
It is possible to be flow and distribution issue.Have you moved the drop checker arround and near substrate level to see if you get the same reading. 

Regards Konstantin


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## MrClockOff (29 Nov 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> Hey thanks for the fast reply, as you can see in the 2nd picture i am injecting co2 yes, and its lime green so what could be the problem here ?
> how can i have deficiency's in FE if i dose EI ? thats the weird thing about it which i dont understand.
> 
> what could be the case is that im having 20mg/l co2 drop check fluid, i am gonna order 30mg/l co2 drop check fluid because on this one i cant see if its for 30 or 20 mg/l


CO2 injection is never easy. There is few rules which have to be followed:

recommended CO2 concentration in the water is 30ppm (or 1 PH unit drop). It can be less but then make sure the light intensity is appropriate (not too bright) or it can be more but then watch out for live stock. Some fish is very sensitive.
chose your CO2 concentration and make sure it's achieved by the time your lights are on and then stable until lights off. If concentration is not achieved by the time the light are on or it drops during lights on then plants will starve and die slowly. Plants like stable CO2 supply otherwise they struggle
ensure that your filter is producing enough flow so water can be moved through the full length of the aquarium so all plants can get the CO2 delivered
ensure that your aquarium do not have stalled spots where water is not moving due to hardscape obstruction or to dense plant growth. This will block CO2 delivery to the plants in such areas which will cause problems again. In such cases CO2 drop checker will show lime green color (desired color) where the flow is OK but if you move it to stalled place it will turn to blue.

Also it's a good idea to have a digital PH meter with better precision. I had once a case where my drop checker was lime green but actual PH drop was just 0.5 drop. I was struggling with growing my plants for months until I bought PH pen and did PH profile which revealed the issue. Fixing CO2 concentration fixed the growth problem

Re Fe deficiency as I said it depends on what water PH do you have in the fish tank. Fe EDTA is getting useless when PH is 7 or above - plants can't use it. Check you PH before changing Fe chelator


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## aquagenetics (29 Nov 2021)

Konsa said:


> Hi there
> Will you please provide more details.
> Tank size,filtration, lighting  and photoperiod, how long before lights on the CO2 comes on and when you get the lime green drop checker(for example when the lights come on,one or two ,3 hours after lights come on),temperature of the tank.
> If Mg is not found in your water supply then that may be your limiting nutrient.You can easily rectify that by adding Epsom salt to your  Macro solution .
> ...



Tank size : juwel rio 240 (240 liter)
Filtration : JBL Cristalprofi 1500
co2 on before lights approx 3 hours (still changing the injection rate, because i had to add a new bottle.)
Light : 2x Juwel Helialux spectrum 1200
about the Mg i dont know, on dutch website they say our tap water is middle level in hardness, i bought it from a known website in the netherlands, and in their recipe there is no MG, i thought u need to add this when you use RO water.
about the flow and distribution, i used to have the drop checker lower, but a fish swimmed in the checker, and got stuck and died unfortunately. (so i placed it higher again. to minimize the risk of that.)

Do you guys reckon the skimmer is placed in good way ? i am not sure about this.
i have made a youtube video, to show you guys better.


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## dw1305 (29 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


aquagenetics said:


> they dont use Magnesium. so that might be the culprit ?


It looks like iron (Fe) deficiency, assuming that the new leaves really are that pale?

Deficiency symptoms are really difficult to diagnose in most cases, but it is only really <"lack of iron"> that causes chlorotic new leaves. This is because iron isn't mobile within the plant and can't be shuffled to new leaves.

This is @Zeus.'s <"future of aquascaping image">, showing the effect of turning iron off and on.





cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (29 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It looks like iron (Fe) deficiency, assuming that the new leaves really are that pale?
> 
> ...



How can it be iron deficiency when i dose EI though ? which leaves do you see that are pale btw i think thats just bright light, anyways i ordered 30mg/l dropchecker fluid now to see if i really inject co2 for 30mg/l
also you can see the schema i posted in the PDF, so you can see what i dose, if its to less please let me know. because im already calculating on that website for 260 liter, coz i thought it was not rich enough because i saw deficiency's 
thanks for the reply!


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## sparkyweasel (30 Nov 2021)

Tenso Cocktail uses EDTA and DPTA chelated iron, these are good in acid water, but if the pH is high much of the iron is not available to plants, almost all of it is unavailable at pH7 or higher.


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Tenso Cocktail uses EDTA and DPTA chelated iron, these are good in acid water, but if the pH is high much of the iron is not available to plants, almost all of it is unavailable at pH7 or higher.


my PH is low, i'am using Tropica soil plus im injecting CO2, waiting now for co2 drop check fluid to come with 30mg/l since they dont have that in the store here. so i had to order it. 
to see if im injecting enough.


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## Konsa (30 Nov 2021)

Hi
I am looking at your video and I see that  while there is good circulation higher in the tank and towards the back there is barely noticeable movement of plants in lower areas and in the middle. I like the position of the skimmer but I would move the intake pipe on the same side as the outflow if you have a chance. Also have you considered using the spray bar on the back wall.Imo this will give you better flow around the tank of your size.
I am using the same filter and similar position of the pipes and while it has a good punch my tank is only 1/2 the size of yours
In regards of Mg and Fe.
Your water hardness depending on your location and geology may come from Ca only or Ca+Mg.If you are using RO you need to add Mg for sure.
Epsom salt is dirt cheap ( £2)and will not do any harm if you add it to your Macro solution. 
As for Fe I was in the same boat like you when I was CO2 user.I  bought a small amount of Fe EDDHA (cost £6)and started adding it to my Micro solution  just to be in the safe side and it worked. 
With EI you are dosing in excess anyway so 1 or 2 tweaks to your mix will not be an issue and you can put your mind at rest in regards of nutrient availability. 
You did not mention your length of photoperiod and your temperature?
Regards Konstantin


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> I am looking at your video and I see that  while there is good circulation higher in the tank and towards the back there is barely noticeable movement of plants in lower areas and in the middle. I like the position of the skimmer but I would move the intake pipe on the same side as the outflow if you have a chance. Also have you considered using the spray bar on the back wall.Imo this will give you better flow around the tank of your size.
> I am using the same filter and similar position of the pipes and while it has a good punch my tank is only 1/2 the size of yours
> In regards of Mg and Fe.
> ...


Temperature 23 c
photoperiod 10 hours with sun up and sun down so bright 8 hours
i do want a spraybar across the whole side, however im not that handy and didnt see one that big, also not sure if that would work
because i had a spray first instead(The default one that came with the filter) instead  of the outlet i have now, and i noticed the CO2 had struggles to come through with the spraybar because im using an JBL proflora inline diffusor.
Im not using RO im using regular tapwater from sink, it should have CA + MG coz its middle hardness or something i read in the report.
Thanks for your reaction! i am glad you solved your problem. i am still puzzling for mine 

im using EI in the schema attached you can see what im dosing weekly. it should be 0.40 ppm FE
if you want more information let me know.


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## dw1305 (30 Nov 2021)

Hi all,


aquagenetics said:


> which leaves do you see that are pale





aquagenetics said:


>


The new leaves? Particularly on the _Myriophyllum_ on the left of the photo?

It is really difficult to judge light intensity from a photo, but your light intensity look very high, so it maybe that Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR) is <"driving demand beyond the supply of, at least one, nutrient">.  Plant growth is like a car assembly line, <"one missing nutrient and no car">.

Personally I like a floating plant,  because they have:

Access to <">415 ppm CO2"> and
are used to <"very bright light"> in their <"natural habitats">.
You can use them like a <"net curtain"> to intercept some of the PAR, if you can't dim or raise the light.



> ........... Floating mats are a common feature of the aquatic communities of the Pantanal ............ restarts with free floating macrophytes (_Salvinia auriculata Aubl., Pistia stratiotes L., Limnobium laevigatum_ (H. B. K.) Heine) and _Eichhornia azurea_. Within a few years, succession again reaches the stage of a floating meadow of sedges...........





Konsa said:


> Your water hardness depending on your location and geology may come from Ca only or Ca+Mg.If you are using RO you need to add Mg for sure.
> Epsom salt is dirt cheap ( £2)and will not do any harm if you add it to your Macro solution.
> As for Fe I was in the same boat like you when I was CO2 user.I bought a small amount of Fe EDDHA (cost £6)and started adding it to my Micro solution just to be in the safe side and it worked.





aquagenetics said:


> about the Mg i dont know, on dutch website they say our tap water is middle level in hardness, i bought it from a known website in the netherlands, and in their recipe there is no MG, i thought u need to add this when you use RO water.


You won't have much magnesium (Mg) in your tap water for <"geological reasons">.  It is different around the Mediterranean sea, or in <"North America">. As @Konsa says there isn't really a downside to adding magnesium and because it is mobile in the plant they should show some improvement really quickly, if magnesium was <"Liebig's limiting nutrient">.


sparkyweasel said:


> but if the pH is high much of the iron is not available to plants, almost all of it is unavailable at pH7 or higher.


That is the iron (Fe) issue, it doesn't matter how much you add if it isn't plant available.

cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

Update : i dropped the dropchecker lower again, lets hope a fish dont swim in it  already happened before.
i made a video to show you guys the bubble count of the CO2


i also tested the PH (yes i know it sucks with test kit) but i dont have PH pen the one's i googled costed like 110 euro.
today we will also change the intake to the same side of the outlet, im wondering if the plants residing lower will move more. 









so i think my ph is low enough for the FE to absorb right ?

Best regards,


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## MrClockOff (30 Nov 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> Update : i dropped the dropchecker lower again, lets hope a fish dont swim in it  already happened before.
> i made a video to show you guys the bubble count of the CO2
> 
> 
> ...



Have you tested PH before CO2 on? When you dose micros? Before CO2 on or when it’s on? PH is changing in CO2 injected tanks: drops when CO2 on and rises when off

By the way what is water PH used to mix frets? Fe could be already useless to plants out of the bottle


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

MrClockOff said:


> Have you tested PH before CO2 on? When you dose micros? Before CO2 on or when it’s on? PH is changing in CO2 injected tanks: drops when CO2 on and rises when off
> 
> By the way what is water PH used to mix frets? Fe could be already useless to plants out of the bottle



i dose micros when lights are on immediatly. so ph is already dropped then, i use tap water to mix Ferts, people said its fine on here.


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## MrClockOff (30 Nov 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i dose micros when lights are on immediatly. so ph is already dropped then, i use tap water to mix Ferts, people said its fine on here.


Very possible your tap is above 7 PH. Aquarium and tap water PH can be different. Also during the night when CO2 is off remaining Fe will be rendered useless if PH will rise to 7 or above


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

MrClockOff said:


> Very possible your tap is above 7 PH. Aquarium and tap water PH can be different. Also during the night when CO2 is off remaining Fe will be rendered useless if PH will rise to 7 or above


i am pretty sure my tap is above 7 yes, so thats the problem ?


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

placed the drop checker back near the ground, seems nice lime green but not sure if its 30 mg/l because i dont have my new dropchecker fluid yet.


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## John q (30 Nov 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i am pretty sure my tap is above 7 yes, so thats the problem ?


I'm no expert on this but pretty sure your micro mix will include some kind of acidifier to keep it stable. My tap water is 7.2ph out of the tap and I have no issues using this to mix ferts, small caveat, my tap water is soft.
I'd imagine if the iron is falling out of chelation in the mix you'd see precipitation/bits in the bottom of the bottle.



aquagenetics said:


> Light : 2x Juwel Helialux spectrum 1200


Looking at your last picture I'd suggest there's more than just an iron deficiency going on here, the plants and hardscape are covered in various types of algae, which to me is being caused by the light intensity demanding far more C02 than is being provided.

Is there any way you can dim these lights? If indeed these are running at full power 120w?


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## aquagenetics (30 Nov 2021)

John q said:


> I'm no expert on this but pretty sure your micro mix will include some kind of acidify to keep it stable. My tap water is 7.2ph out of the tap and I have no issues using this to mix ferts, small caveat, my tap water is soft.
> I'd imagine if the iron is falling out of chelation in the mix you'd see precipitation/bits in the bottom of the bottle.
> 
> 
> ...



yea thats why i ordered 30 mg/l co2 fluid now to see if i inject to less co2, since the dropchecker is now lime-green, i used to have the lights dimmed more but i noticed the AR Mini was suffering etc. the foreground plants.
will also try to change the intake today.

i also changed the intake of the tank next to the outflow


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## sparkyweasel (30 Nov 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> so i think my ph is low enough for the FE to absorb right ?


If I remember correctly, one of those chelates loses all of its availability at pH6.5 and the other at pH7, so you could be getting very reduced availability (the closer to those figures, the more you lose). Plus what @MrClockOff says about pH.


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## aquagenetics (1 Dec 2021)

i looked at the website and for the Micro i got this : Sporenelementen (Tenso cocktail)
it appears its EDTA, hmm people on here said i could use normal tap water, but maybe they thought i had other chelates ?


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## MrClockOff (1 Dec 2021)

> Stabiliteit van de chelaten tussen pH=3.5 en pH=7.5


Is this some kind of stabiliser? Or it says stable in PH range? Anyway if your aquarium water or tap water gets above 6.5-7 PH then Fe EDTA is not good. 

Myself I always wonder why EDTA used at all in all premixed powders like APF? I may be wrong but most of UK has quite hard water and alkaline.. so why EDTA?


Anyway I would suggest to look for Fe DTPA and or EDDHA. I'm using both of those but just quarters of usual dose. EDDHA make water pink and higher concentrations


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## John q (1 Dec 2021)

MrClockOff said:


> Is this some kind of stabiliser? Or it says stable in PH range?



There's  no mention of stabilisers, it's saying its stable range is 3.5 to 7.5.


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## MrClockOff (1 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> There's  no mention of stabilisers, it's saying its stable range is 3.5 to 7.5.
> 
> View attachment 177977


So this is the answer why the OP has Fe deficiency


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## John q (1 Dec 2021)

Could well be, although personally I don't think he has a fe deficiency.


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## aquagenetics (1 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> Could well be, although personally I don't think he has a fe deficiency.


what do you think it could be ?


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## John q (1 Dec 2021)

Let's look at the logic...  in various threads you've mentioned deficiencies. Folks surmise the problem... iron, magnesium, etc.etc.
You showcase a vid with poor flow yet you blast the tank with 120w of light... folks suggest you dim the light...

If you're dosing ei levels of iron, regardless of its chleate, I'd wager the plants will get there fill. Your mix contains dtpa chelation, this is stable up to 8ph, what wait, 60% of dpta will be lost at a ph of 8... 40% remaning of to much is... drum roll... enough, ta,da,dah... How much iron do you think the plants need?

Sorry for the blunt response, your problem is to much light and inadequate C02... there is a fantastic chleate available that fixes that... its called a dimmer.

Cheers.


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## aquagenetics (1 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> Let's look at the logic...  in various threads you've mentioned deficiencies. Folks surmise the problem... iron, magnesium, etc.etc.
> You showcase a vid with poor flow yet you blast the tank with 120w of light... folks suggest you dim the light...
> 
> If you're dosing ei levels of iron, regardless of its chleate, I'd wager the plants will get there fill. Your mix contains dtpa chelation, this is stable up to 8ph, what wait, 60% of dpta will be lost at a ph of 8... 60% of to much is... drum roll... enough, ta,da,dah... How much iron do you think the plants need?
> ...



Yea i did dim the lights, however i used to have the settings lower but then was suffering from diatoms and foreground plants not receiving enough light.
i dimmed the lights back again now, still puzzling out the exact settings.


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## John q (1 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> still puzzling out the exact settings.


You and me both mate, best way I've found is to rule things out,. Double dose your micro ferts and see if things improve, I'm not an expert, it may well solve your problems.


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## Konsa (1 Dec 2021)

Hi there
You seem to be running circles around nutrient deficiencies and how much CO2 exactly you are injecting only.I have been there too.
It doesn't really matter if your CO2 is  exactly 20,25 or 30ppm.While 30ppm is optimal even if your injection is 20ppm  will be  good as long as its stable and not fluctuating during the photoperiod.
In planted tank flow is the king.Laminar flow all around the tank without any dead spots.
I will suggest to get some MgSO4(Epsom salt) and Fe EDDHA and add them to your mix just for your peace of mind. Then you know your nutrients are all covered and you can  focus your  attention on the other  more important stuff like flow and distribution.It seems from your video that everything near substrate level is struggling  and judging by the fuzz algae on all the plants seems the filler is not managing to polish the water and debris is accumulating on the leaf surfaces due to poor flow(I may be wrong about that but I that is what happened to me in the past)
Also do you have the option to dim the lights till you get the hang of things.Strong lights is not always a good thing if you don't have your bases covered.
120w of LED seems like hell of a lot of light  and obviously  you can't balance it out.
BTW the thick Green dust algae(GDS) on your back wall going all waydown to substrate level is screaming at you that you are getting plenty of light at substrate level so any issue with foreground plants is flow,distribution and CO2 related rather not enough light.In low light plants grow slow, get leggy... etc etc  not just melting .
Regards Konstantin


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## dw1305 (2 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


John q said:


> your problem is to much light and inadequate C02...


It does look like bright lighting. That would be why <"I would add a floating plant">, not CO2 limited and used to intense PAR.


John q said:


> best way I've found is to rule things out,.





John q said:


> although personally I don't think he has a fe deficiency.





dw1305 said:


> Deficiency symptoms are really difficult to diagnose in most cases, but it is only really <"lack of iron"> that causes chlorotic new leaves. This is because iron isn't mobile within the plant and can't be shuffled to new leaves.


No, it might not well be <"iron deficiency">, but until we have a picture that shows the *actual colour* of the new leaves? It is very difficult to say.

It is easy to exclude iron (Fe) deficiency from the equation, if the plants have small chlorotic new leaves (<"like below">) it is iron deficiency, if they don't? it isn't.





cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

Konsa said:


> Hi there
> You seem to be running circles around nutrient deficiencies and how much CO2 exactly you are injecting only.I have been there too.
> It doesn't really matter if your CO2 is  exactly 20,25 or 30ppm.While 30ppm is optimal even if your injection is 20ppm  will be  good as long as its stable and not fluctuating during the photoperiod.
> In planted tank flow is the king.Laminar flow all around the tank without any dead spots.
> ...



Dimmed the lights to 60 now, i thought it was possible in my setup to have it more intensely, because i saw someone else on youtube from my country and he had almost same setup as me.
when i asked him what settings he used on the light he said everything on 100 and his tank looked amazing, first i started with more dimmed light but saw foreground plants struggling, new leaves are first RED and then quickly turned brownish. (AR mini)
right now an extra problem occured, and thats that my CO2 keeps running, so currently when i have time checking out what the problem is with that, now before i go bed i manually turn it off, and normally the solenoid valve did that.
its really weird even when i turn the gass of completely the bubble counter still bubbles, if i dont turn it off with the needle valve, so i have to check that out.

Thanks alot for all you guys comments, i really appreciate it! as for the flow i really would want to have a spraybar for the full length, but i dont know where to get that, and if my current filter (JBL cristalprofi 1500) could do that, since that would also decrease the area it needs to move the water, the distance to the glass is closer.

Here are the light settings now, if anyone has recommendations let me know


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## Konsa (2 Dec 2021)

Hi
If you want spray bar.JBL has outflow spray bar as a replacement part.It comes in 2 parts that attach to each other.



Get a set or 2(of needed) that match your size filter and add them together  pull the end cap out, cut the last bit to match your lenght and glue the cap back on.
Job done.
Regards Konstantin


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> If you want spray bar.JBL has outflow spray bar as a replacement part.It comes in 2 parts that attach to each other.
> View attachment 177996
> Get a set or 2(of needed) that match your size filter and add them together  pull the end cap out, cut the last bit to match your lenght and glue the cap back on.
> ...



Hey i think i found that one 









						JBL OutSet spray
					

Accessory for external filters: water outlet complete set with spray bar for external filter CristalProfi e and other filters




					www.jbl.de
				




i dont know if my filter is strong enough to do the whole back, but i could try this thanks, i also noticed when using the default spraybar the smaller one, co2 bubbles had trouble getting pushed out of the openings.


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## Konsa (2 Dec 2021)

Hi
You can only try.You don't need heavy/turbulent flow. As long as all plants in different areas are gently moving your flow will be  sufficient. 
Think your size is 16/22 but double check it just to be sure.
Regards Konstantin


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## dw1305 (2 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


aquagenetics said:


> new leaves are first RED and then quickly turned brownish. (AR mini)


But what about the green plants? In the case of the _Alternanthera reineckii _it has red pigments (anthocyanins) in the cell vacuole that will <"mask the degree of greeness">.

Can you get a photo of the _Myriophyllum?*_ showing its true colour? Are the new leaves actually "leaf green"> or are they more yellow?
_*edit OP has corrected this ID, plant is actually Proserpinaca palustris_






aquagenetics said:


> ......... i really appreciate it! as for the flow i really would want to have a spraybar for the full length, but i dont know where to get that,


If you could get some ,<"Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_)"> that would be really useful. If the Frogbit isn't <"leaf green and in active growth?"> It isn't light, flow or CO2,  *it is a mineral nutrient deficiency*.


> ......... After a bit of searching I found a floating plant that:
> 
> Shows a linear response to nutrients,
> has a "leaf green" leaf,
> ...


If your Frogbit looks like @Timon Vogelaar 's (<"above">)? *It isn't a mineral nutrient deficiency,* it  is CO2 (availability/distribution) or light (too much/too little).

cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> But what about the green plants? In the case of the _Alternanthera reineckii _it has red pigments (anthocyanins) in the cell vacuole that will <"mask the degree of greeness">.
> 
> ...



Hey Darrel, its not a  _Myriophyllum_ i bought it as a Proserpinaca palustris also known as mermaid weed. but i understand the confusion. _they look similar_
i think the issue im having is flow, and some deficiency's we are gonna start dosing just as powder soon, to see if that would help.

here are some pics of the plants














                                                                                            this left stem one looks more red had better flow on right side                                                                                                this new growth on the pogostemon erectus looks fine ?


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## Fred13 (2 Dec 2021)

The first thing I noticed is your light intensity. 
It is difficult to judge from a photo because your lens may not be showing the real intensity. However, If you dose EI and you still facing nutrient deficiency, light intensity is an element you should consider.
It can be so high that drives plants to require even more nutrients. If I was you,  I would keep my light intensity at a medium level and I would keep dosing EI. Having extra nutrients in water column will not cause any harm. 

What I have learned during my short aquascaping journey is that the best you can do is to limit your light. The most common perception among newcomers or even more experienced hobbyists is that plants need tons of light to grow. This is not true. They just grow faster and you take the risk of having algae and instability problems.


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

Fred13 said:


> The first thing I noticed is your light intensity.
> It is difficult to judge from a photo because your lens may not be showing the real intensity. However, If you dose EI and you still facing nutrient deficiency, light intensity is an element you should consider.
> It can be so high that drives plants to require even more nutrients. If I was you,  I would keep my light intensity at a medium level and I would keep dosing EI. Having extra nutrients in water column will not cause any harm.
> 
> What I have learned during my short aquascaping journey is that the best you can do is to limit your light. The most common perception among newcomers or even more experienced hobbyists is that plants need tons of light to grow. This is not true. They just grow faster and you take the risk of having algae and instability problems.



Yea i lowered it now to medium (i think ? how do you determine this.) i also watch alot of youtube channels like green aqua etc, and they always have their lights on 100% and theyre tanks look amazing.
when i looked at a review about these lights they did a PAR reading and it wasnt so much for 1 bar, so i thought i needed to put the light on 100% as i also saw in other video about a guy with the 1500 series of juwel helialux spectrum, and his tank was doing great, he was even growing cryptocoryne flamingo. AQUARIUMS for me atleast hightech is a big puzzle. and i wont give up


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## Fred13 (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> Yea i lowered it now to medium (i think ? how do you determine this.) i also watch alot of youtube channels like green aqua etc, and they always have their lights on 100% and theyre tanks look amazing.
> when i looked at a review about these lights they did a PAR reading and it wasnt so much for 1 bar, so i thought i needed to put the light on 100% as i also saw in other video about a guy with the 1500 series of juwel helialux spectrum, and his tank was doing great, he was even growing cryptocoryne flamingo. AQUARIUMS for me atleast hightech is a big puzzle. and i wont give up


Of course, you won't give up!
Keep in mind that Green Aqua are professionals. That doesn't only mean they are experienced. It means that they have dedicated persons for measurements, maintenance, etc...
You could have a great tank with high light, even higher than you initially had. But still, you are asking for trouble and the gains are minimal. To be honest, it will also be difficult to maintain rapid growth in the long term. Even fish prefer medium light. I remember myself having super high light that got my fish stressed.
It is best to have a healthy tank with average speed growth to ensure that you have the time to react to trouble.

My suggestion is good filtration, plenty of co2, plenty of nutrients, medium light (your only limited element).
You will not be disappointed.


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

@Fred13
look this guy has bigger version then my aquarium, has 1 bigger type of lights same brand and model.  but slightly bigger
and when i asked him what light settings he used 100% and his aquarium looks amazing, and hes from same country as me. however i do notice his skimmer is next to the outflow, i am gonna do this aswell. for extra flow.


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## dw1305 (2 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


aquagenetics said:


> its not a _Myriophyllum_ i bought it as a _Proserpinaca palustris_


My mistake, I wasn't sure what it was, I just thought probably a _Myriophyllum, _but it does look more like _Proserpinaca palustris. _It was the dissected underwater leaves that made it look _Myriophyllum_ like.


aquagenetics said:


> this new growth on the _Pogostemon erectus_ looks fine ?


If your plants had been suffering from lack of iron (Fe), but were now not? It is only the new growth that would be darker green and normally sized.

If it was a deficiency of magnesium (Mg) (or nitrogen (N), potassium (K) or phosphorus) then you would get a rapid greening of the existing leaves because these nutrients are mobile within the plant and it could shuffle them to the leaves receiving the most PAR. 

cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

so the first thing i always notice is when i decrease the lights intensity, is that my plants take way longer for them to start pearling. i always thought pearling plants is a sign of good health and perfect photosynthesis going on.
and i also like the look of it.


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## arcturus (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> so the first thing i always notice is when i decrease the lights intensity, is that my plants take way longer for them to start pearling. i always thought pearling plants is a sign of good health and perfect photosynthesis going on.
> and i also like the look of it.


That is true. but your plants are not showing signs of good health  So, until you understand the root cause of your problems you cannot use pearling as an indicator. In any case, it will take some time for the plants to adjust to the reduced lighting. Now focus on improving the flow and securing a consistent concentration and distribution of CO2 during the photo-period and then let the tank run with moderate lighting for a while. If these changes have no effect then you will need to review the ferts...


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

i also adjusted the skimmer, i placed it near the front window on the right side, and the outflow of my filter is back left side so i hope it will help with circulating, till i try to make the spraybar.


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## erwin123 (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i always thought pearling plants is a sign of good health and perfect photosynthesis going on.


There are other things you can do to check plant health:
(1) look at the lower leaves. are they in worse condition then the newer growth?
(2) is there algae on the plant? (unhealthy plants are algae magnets)
(3) compare with photos from databases or UKAPS members' photos- leaf size, leaf shape, stem thickness, etc


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

(1) yes they are at some plants
(2) yes they were suffering from diatoms


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## erwin123 (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> (1) yes they are at some plants
> (2) yes they were suffering from diatoms







This photo suggests to me that the plants aren't in good health - you have quite a bit of filamentous algae, even on the C. Crispulata/Spiralis leaves at the top of the photo, which is usually quite hardy and resistant to algae as it grows so fast.


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

yea i know the plants are not in good health, thats the whole issue here im trying to figure out


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## arcturus (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i also adjusted the skimmer, i placed it near the front window on the right side, and the outflow of my filter is back left side so i hope it will help with circulating, till i try to make the spraybar.


The JBL CrtistalProfi 1500 is certainly unable to reach anywhere close to the advertised 1500 l/h. Given the size of that filter, the actual flow rate could easily be 1/3 or 1/4 of the rate, even if the filter media is not packed too tightly. This can be insufficient for a 240 litre aquarium with CO2 injection. 

The skimmer can help with the circulation but will also increase surface agitation and gaseous exchanges, which can lead to inconsistent CO2 levels. So, the skimmer is another variable you should remove from the equation. I would not let the skimmer run during the photo-period and CO2 injection. If needed, set it on a timer for a few hours outside the photo-period. 

Consider getting a circulation pump to increase the flow, especially closer to the substrate, and stop using the skimmer for that purpose. Your aquarium has barely any hardscape, so a small circulation pump will be able to create a good flow.
​


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## Konsa (2 Dec 2021)

Hi


arcturus said:


> The JBL CrtistalProfi 1500 is certainly unable to reach anywhere close to the advertised 1500 l/h. Given the size of that filter, the actual flow rate could easily be 1/3 or 1/4 of the rate, even if the filter media is not packed too tightly. This can be insufficient for a 240 litre aquarium with CO2 injection.
> 
> The skimmer can help with the circulation but will also increase surface agitation and gaseous exchanges, which can lead to inconsistent CO2 levels. So, the skimmer is another variable you should remove from the equation.


Hi
while I agree that the filter is likely underpowered for 240l tank too.
I do not agree with the skimmer being a negative in CO2 injected tank.Yes it does great job at increasing gas exchange and thats not a negative thing.While obviously some CO2 will gas off and it needs to be compensated with a little higher injection rate, it is actually aiding stability in CO2 levels.Not having it ON and having poor gas exchange on the surface often causes CO2 to build up constantly during the coarse of the day.
Been there done that too
Regards Konstantin


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## Konsa (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> also noticed when using the default spraybar the smaller one, co2 bubbles had trouble getting pushed out of the openings.


Hi
I don't like the inline atomizers.
If you dont clean them frequently enough they get clogged resulting in bigger CO2 bubbles being produced that dissolve much more difficult and get stuck in pipes.Not sure what quality are they made now  I was using them in their early days tho.
Have you considered using a reactor instead?

Regards Konstantin


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## Fred13 (2 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> @Fred13
> look this guy has bigger version then my aquarium, has 1 bigger type of lights same brand and model.  but slightly bigger
> and when i asked him what light settings he used 100% and his aquarium looks amazing, and hes from same country as me. however i do notice his skimmer is next to the outflow, i am gonna do this aswell. for extra flow.



Yes, I am sure he does have a great tank with high light.  But he found the right balance between the 3 main elements. Light, co2 and nutrients.
It is difficult for someone to understand it but even 2 identical tanks are different. That is magical of course and makes the hobby much more interesting.

As for the pearling, if I remember right is more of a sign that the water is oxygen saturated. The plants now may delay pearling but they still do. They still grow.  What you actually win is time. Time to identify the problem and act.
You can always increase your intensity later on if this pleases your eyes.


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## aquagenetics (2 Dec 2021)

Fred13 said:


> Yes, I am sure he does have a great tank with high light.  But he found the right balance between the 3 main elements. Light, co2 and nutrients.
> It is difficult for someone to understand it but even 2 identical tanks are different. That is magical of course and makes the hobby much more interesting.
> 
> As for the pearling, if I remember right is more of a sign that the water is oxygen saturated. The plants now may delay pearling but they still do. They still grow.  What you actually win is time. Time to identify the problem and act.
> You can always increase your intensity later on if this pleases your eyes.



Yea i am working on it, i got some 30mg/l co2 liquid now, and trying to get the co2 to be limegreen at lights off and not going into yellow, also still dosing EI and we're gonna learn on doing it with powders probably
so doesnt have the problem with the FE chelates.


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## Konsa (2 Dec 2021)

Hi
How long before lights on you start the CO2 and how long before lights out injection stops?
Regards Konstantin


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## erwin123 (2 Dec 2021)

arcturus said:


> The skimmer can help with the circulation but will also increase surface agitation and gaseous exchanges, which can lead to inconsistent CO2 levels. So, the skimmer is another variable you should remove from the equation. I would not let the skimmer run during the photo-period and CO2 injection. If needed, set it on a timer for a few hours outside the photo-period.


Surface agitation will lead to increased gassing off and thus require you to inject CO2 at a higher rate.  But a higher rate of injection promotes CO2 consistency because CO2 injection at a higher rate means that consumption of CO2 by plants has a smaller/negligible effect (this is covered in the link below).

As a beginner, I followed this guide in 2hr aquarist and  found it easy/easier to reach a stable pH drop with a Lily Pipe skimmer in operation 24/7.









						Surface agitation & gaseous exchange in CO2 injected tanks
					

Surface agitation in a planted aquarium - yes or not ? This page explores why having some surface agitation and turnover is actually useful in planted tanks and actually makes tuning CO2 to optimal levels more easy.




					www.2hraquarist.com
				






> Consider getting a circulation pump to increase the flow, especially closer to the substrate, and stop using the skimmer for that purpose. Your aquarium has barely any hardscape, so a small circulation pump will be able to create a good flow.


This is a great idea, one which I only recently discovered... I placed a small usb pump at the back of the tank, at the substrate level, hidden by the plants.


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## arcturus (3 Dec 2021)

erwin123 said:


> Surface agitation will lead to increased gassing off and thus require you to inject CO2 at a higher rate.  But a higher rate of injection promotes CO2 consistency because CO2 injection at a higher rate means that consumption of CO2 by plants has a smaller/negligible effect (this is covered in the link below).
> 
> As a beginner, I followed this guide in 2hr aquarist and  found it easy/easier to reach a stable pH drop with a Lily Pipe skimmer in operation 24/7.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. But skimmers can generate too much turbulence and "break" the water surface layer. Ideally, all the water surface should be moving with gentle ripples but without breaking and splashing. The flow of the filter outlet and/or circulation pump should be sufficient to achieve this. But if you already managed to balance CO2 injection with the skimmer on then do not change the setup until you find what is causing your problems.


erwin123 said:


> This is a great idea, one which I only recently discovered... I placed a small usb pump at the back of the tank, at the substrate level, hidden by the plants.


Yes, a small pump can make a lot of a difference at the substrate level!

Now, let's hope your plants start recovering soon with less light.


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## aquagenetics (3 Dec 2021)

yea i am currently looking for a good circulation pump will add that instead of the skimmer on the right front side, also i got the new co2 liquid 30mg/l and it appears i injected never enough co2
so currently puzzling to get it lime green at lights on. light is still every color at 60% will post updates soon. thanks everyone 😍


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## aquagenetics (4 Dec 2021)

Update : Maintenance today 50 % water change, added the 2 spraybars that already came with the filter, and ordered 2 additional ones for the right side, already notice flow in foreground plants, hopefully the filter is strong enough to do the right side aswell, also ordered seachem Matrix filter bio media ,Seachem Purigen

Here you can see the spraybars, lights are still on 60%


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## Konsa (4 Dec 2021)

Hi
do not jam pack the filter with media or you will reduce flow further.In planted tanks filter media is pretty much irrelevant as plants will do most of the biological filtration. I keep my filters mainly full with coarse sponge (as it has less impact on flow) and a little siporax.I do like having Purigen in tho)
Regards Konstantin


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## erwin123 (5 Dec 2021)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> do not jam pack the filter with media or you will reduce flow further.In planted tanks filter media is pretty much irrelevant as plants will do most of the biological filtration. I keep my filters mainly full with coarse sponge (as it has less impact on flow) and a little siporax.I do like having Purigen in tho)
> Regards Konstantin



This is one of the hardest things to 'unlearn'. before I discovered UKAPS, my filters were packed with Matrix and 3DM biomedia. After I learnt that 'flow is king', I've since removed most of my 'fancy' biomedia.

However, because I like clear water, I am also using fine and medium sponges after the coarse sponges. Because of the fine sponges, it means I have to clean my filter more frequently, something like every 4-5 weeks.  But due to WFH, I'm at home and looking at my tank more often, so I don't mind.


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## dw1305 (5 Dec 2021)

Hi all,


erwin123 said:


> This is one of the hardest things to 'unlearn'. before I discovered UKAPS, my filters were packed with Matrix and 3DM biomedia. After I learnt that 'flow is king', I've since removed most of my 'fancy' biomedia.


It was only tangentially "flow rate" that made me think a lot more carefully about the media and biofilm that I had in the filter, <"it was really oxygen">. I knew that <"wet and dry trickle">, and moving bed, filters had a huge capacity to deal with bioload, but the actual volume of <"wet media was often relatively small">.

With canister filters they often had a much larger volume of bio media, but from reading posts on other forums, apparently a fraction of the nitrification capacity. What was the difference? Why were peoples canister filters not working optimally?

It was at this point that I found that people both packed their filters with <"premium" biomedia"> and  <"used them as a syphon"> to remove organic waste from their aquarium. They also looked on <"thick biofilms"> as an advantage, because they <"_encouraged denitrification_">. It was a bit of an eye-opener and when I told people about <"oxygen and plants">, it wasn't <"universally well received">.

cheers Darrel


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## aquagenetics (7 Dec 2021)

Update : got a spraybar now across the full back of the aquarium, and the flow is horrible its way to less powerfull to bring debris to the intake.
here is the video, all the tips are welcome Filter : jbl cristal profi e1502


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## aquagenetics (12 Dec 2021)

Update : started giving powders 2 days ago, instead of mixing them, i also ordered magnesium but im wondering how much to give from the magnesium sulphate that doesnt get included in the schema.
current schema is displayed underneath, note on that website they do very precise calculations, but i am doing this approximately so sometimes its a bit more.
i dose these between alternate days, i think i have to add magnesium to the macro mix ? im wondering how much to add.

Macro
3.18 gram (KNO3) 
0.25 (KH2PO4) 
1.45 gram kaliumsulfaat (K2SO4) 

Micro
1.36 gram trace elements (Tenso Cocktail)


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## aquagenetics (16 Dec 2021)

Update : Today added 1 tsp of magnesium sulphate do you guys think its enough ? to start with.
i wanna rule out all deficiency's


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## John q (16 Dec 2021)

Your 1 tsp of MgSo4 will add about 2ppm of Mg. Is this enough? I don't know, did you ever find out how much magnesium is in your tap water?


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## aquagenetics (16 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> Your 1 tsp of MgSo4 will add about 2ppm of Mg. Is this enough? I don't know, did you ever find out how much magnesium is in your tap water?


no i dont know, i can only see online it says softer hardness of the water, then where i was staying before, but some people in this thread have told me i can try adding this to the water so thats what im currently doing now.
btw the tsp was 2.75 gram

Here is a picture, there were also reports but my place is not in the list unfortunately.


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## John q (16 Dec 2021)

Yes definitely try it, certainly won't do any harm.


aquagenetics said:


> btw the tsp was 2.75 gram


OK so more like half a tsp (I've never actually weighed a tsp of mgso4)

2.75 grams of mgso4 will add 1.1 ppm of magnesium, I'd probably double this and see if there's any improvement.


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## Konsa (16 Dec 2021)

Hi
if you have Mg deficiencies and add the MgSO4 you shold be able to observe pretty quick response(more green colour)from your plants(and algae) as Mg is mobile nutrient.
If Mg was also a limiting nutrient you shold also see better growth shortly after. 
Regards Konstantin


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## aquagenetics (16 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> Yes definitely try it, certainly won't do any harm.
> 
> OK so more like half a tsp (I've never actually weighed a tsp of mgso4)
> 
> 2.75 grams of mgso4 will add 1.1 ppm of magnesium, I'd probably double this and see if there's any improvement.


i added another 2tsp do i have to give this every day ?
i also emailed the company for a water report for my area.


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## John q (16 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i added another 2tsp do i have to give this every day


No, just add it weekly.


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## aquagenetics (16 Dec 2021)

John q said:


> No, just add it weekly.


Allright will do thanks!


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## MichaelJ (16 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> i added another 2tsp do i have to give this every day ?
> i also emailed the company for a water report for my area.


2 tsp of MgSO4 drysalt is ~11.2 gram. (I weighted it). Weekly for a 240L tank (assuming 50% WC/wk) should suffice as pointed out by John.  I'm aiming at 7ppm of Mg myself.... about 4:1 Ca:Mg or 28ppm of Ca and 7 ppm of Mg.

Cheers,
Michael


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## aquagenetics (17 Dec 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> 2 tsp of MgSO4 drysalt is ~11.2 gram. (I weighted it). Weekly for a 240L tank (assuming 50% WC/wk) should suffice as pointed out by John.  I'm aiming at 7ppm of Mg myself.... about 4:1 Ca:Mg or 28ppm of Ca and 7 ppm of Mg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Michael, you must have some big teaspoons ? i only measure 2.75 gram per spoon and thats with a digital scale, so you think i have to add more ?


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## MichaelJ (17 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> Hey Michael, you must have some big teaspoons ? i only measure 2.75 gram per spoon and thats with a digital scale, so you think i have to add more ?


Hi @aquagenetics, I should have arrested the idea of using a _teaspoon_ for measurement from the get go, as I am obviously using a standard US teaspoon measure which comes out at 4.92 ml - I have no idea what it is in the UK/EU.  And one US teaspoon of MgSO4 indeed comes out at ~5.6g.  Whichever way you measure it out you should add about 11-12 grams per week as mentioned above. I measure everything out on a digital milligram scale - I'm not too particular with my measurements as long as its within a _fair_ margin (preferably a bit over than what I have calculated for the various fertilizer compounds I am dosing).

Cheers,
Michael


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## foxfish (17 Dec 2021)




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## MichaelJ (17 Dec 2021)

FYI In the U.S., measuring spoons often come in sets, usually between four and six. This usually includes ¼, ½, and 1 teaspoon and 1 tablespoon.[1] The volume of a traditional US teaspoon is 4.9 ml and that of a tablespoon is 14.8 ml, slightly less than that of standard metric measuring spoons.


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## aquagenetics (17 Dec 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> FYI In the U.S., measuring spoons often come in sets, usually between four and six. This usually includes ¼, ½, and 1 teaspoon and 1 tablespoon.[1] The volume of a traditional US teaspoon is 4.9 ml and that of a tablespoon is 14.8 ml, slightly less than that of standard metric measuring spoons.


i gave another 2 spoons so estimated now like 12 grams of magnesium.


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## aquagenetics (30 Dec 2021)

Update picture of my Planted Tank
Running lights at 60% trying to change this gradually, as some plants need more light such as Ammania Gracilis and Nesea GOLD, Alternanthera Reineckii mini, Ludwigia White
Gonna buy a Eheim Professionel 4 600 soon aswell, so i have 2 cannister filters on the tank and more flow, i still have to figure out how i am gonna make space for this extra filter, since the right cabinet is filled with the CO2 cylinder.

Dosing : EI
Lights : Juwel Helialux spectrum x 2 running at 60% all color channels.


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## erwin123 (30 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> Update picture of my Planted Tank
> Running lights at 60% trying to change this gradually, as some plants need more light such as Ammania Gracilis and Nesea GOLD, Alternanthera Reineckii mini, Ludwigia White
> Gonna buy a Eheim Professionel 4 600 soon aswell, so i have 2 cannister filters on the tank and more flow, i still have to figure out how i am gonna make space for this extra filter, since the right cabinet is filled with the CO2 cylinder.
> 
> ...



Wow, you are growing Ammannia Gracilis and Pedicatella Golden using EI? Its supposedly quite challenging to use EI to grow them, but I'm a big fan of Ammannias so I'll be following this thread closely!  

p.s. the "Golden" is unmistakable, but which one is the Gracilis? It hasn't turned red yet?


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## aquagenetics (30 Dec 2021)

erwin123 said:


> Wow, you are growing Ammannia Gracilis and Pedicatella Golden using EI? Its supposedly quite challenging to use EI to grow them, but I'm a big fan of Ammannias so I'll be following this thread closely!


well its not going good as you can see, i need more light but more light is also more pollution, so i am waiting till i can place the new filter im gonna be ordering, so i got more filtration, because i was dealing with alot of algae issues when i had my light settings at like 90-100 % so will be changing this gradually, btw do you know why its harder to grow them when EI dosing ?
the gracilis is on the right side of the golden. but not really red need to increase light for that probably, it also doesnt help that my photo camera on my phone makes everything looks whiten out.


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## plantnoobdude (30 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> well its not going good as you can see, i need more light but more light is also more pollution, so i am waiting till i can place the new filter im gonna be ordering, so i got more filtration, because i was dealing with alot of algae issues when i had my light settings at like 90-100 % so will be changing this gradually, btw do you know why its harder to grow them when EI dosing ?
> the gracilis is on the right side of the golden. but not really red need to increase light for that probably, it also doesnt help that my photo camera on my phone makes everything looks whiten out.


my guess is that they need A LOT of co2 compared to the amount of nutrients. with EI levels of nutrients you need so much co2 that your fish would suffocate before you can get ammania looking good. which is why ammania do better in lean slow growth tanks which aren't being pushed to the limit.


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## erwin123 (30 Dec 2021)

aquagenetics said:


> the gracilis is on the right side of the golden. but not really red need to increase light for that probably, it also doesnt help that my photo camera on my phone makes everything looks whiten out.


60% for a double Helialux setup is pretty bright but the "Golden" is a special case.

I have double LED lights like you and currently running 59% front, 70% back. I'm probably one step away from disaster, but I will continue increasing the light 1% at a time until my Wallichii turn pink or the tank crashes, whichever comes first 😅


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## aquagenetics (30 Dec 2021)

erwin123 said:


> 60% for a double Helialux setup is pretty bright but the "Golden" is a special case.
> 
> I have double LED lights like you and currently running 59% front, 70% back. I'm probably one step away from disaster, but I will continue increasing the light 1% at a time until my Wallichii turn pink or the tank crashes, whichever comes first 😅


its actually not that much par, because now the plants are not pearling, if i increase the light to like 80%  pearling starts.


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## aquagenetics (30 Dec 2021)

plantnoobdude said:


> my guess is that they need A LOT of co2 compared to the amount of nutrients. with EI levels of nutrients you need so much co2 that your fish would suffocate before you can get ammania looking good. which is why ammania do better in lean slow growth tanks which aren't being pushed to the limit.


interesting thanks for telling me, its a pretty hard plant for me to grow. thats maybe why its not doing good then haha.


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