# Blanket weed



## weasel (22 Apr 2013)

Never really had a problem with blanket weed but this year its come with avengence...

All i can think it could be,is the change of filter,for the better i may add,lots of nitrates bieng produced by the added aeration to the bio stage..

My question is; would EI dosing solve the blanket weed issue in a fish only pond..im not a lover of using chemicals in a koi pond,i know it would not be cheap to do but ive heard its good at removing algea...


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## foxfish (22 Apr 2013)

I have never herd that one before!!
Shade is the best way to reduce the horrible stuff!
Like most algaes it thrives in strong light.


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## weasel (22 Apr 2013)

Its only just started getting the sun on the pond ,its a pain in the anus because it grabs the stuff and pump cant take it to the filter making things worse...ive just salt dosed it at 3% and it looks like it may have killed it..


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## sa80mark (23 Apr 2013)

I had a blanket weed problem a few years back and the best method for me was to manually remove as much as possible and then use a product called goodbye blanket weed by nishikoi, it was really effective for me strangely as you say my blanket weed problem came after a filter upgrade to

Mark


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## dw1305 (23 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


foxfish said:


> Shade is the best way to reduce the horrible stuff! Like most algaes it thrives in strong light.


Blanket weed is almost inevitable in eutrophic hard water ponds, unless you have a really large plant biomass including Water Lilies etc to shade the surface and remove nutrients.

I have buckets of rain-water outside for the cat to drink from, and even they develop an algal mat at this time of the year. Because phosphorus doesn't have an aerial phase enough phosphorus is being added (from the wind blown moss, leaves and lichens that end up in the buckets) to fuel an "algal bloom".

Have a look at this post: <blanket weed | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish (23 Apr 2013)

I have been professional  building pond for over 25 years & have witnessed my customers trying every conceivable product available to try & rid the dreaded spring time blanket weed LOL...
If there was a magic cure product, then the producer would be a billionaire!
I always make a point of explaining to new pond owners the benefits of shading the pond & I will always suggest they stretch their budget to an overhead pagoda style canopy for Koi ponds.
Most koi ponds are designed & filtered to produce crystal clear water allowing the sunlight to penetrate deep into the water & encouraging the weed even more!
Some of the more mature ponds I maintain, especially the ones owned by dedicated hobbyist, simple dont get blanked weed for 10 months a year but the dreaded spring time will inevitability get my phone ringing!
The exceptions are the pond that are either inside with no natural light or very mature planted ponds with at least 50% surface cover from mature healthy plants.


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## roadmaster (23 Apr 2013)

Middlin size tub's, (40/50 gal) I use during summer to hold live bait,are planted with pond lillies,and water lettuce.
Between these plant's,,nothing else can grow on the surface for long.
Takes a couple week's for the lillies to get going,but after that,,the two species fight each other for dominance. 
Feed the bait fish,and the lillies and water lettuce thrive.
Chicken wire over the tub's to keep out the critter's.


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## weasel (23 Apr 2013)

*Pharmaceutical grade zinc oxide gets rid of it sharpish.. 2-3g per 1000ltr..its the main ingredient in EA blanketweed answer but a third of the price..i just fancied doing it a bit more naturally ..a GH of 18 and KH of 24  from the tap is my problem..plus high nitrate doesnt help.. 50% waterchange weekly aswell...*


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## foxfish (23 Apr 2013)

O well I will eat my words and shut up then!


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## weasel (23 Apr 2013)

ha ha,im gona be a billionare


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## martin-green (23 Apr 2013)

I have to agree with foxfish, I too have seen lots of miracle cures, none work for everyone.


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## weasel (23 Apr 2013)

I also agree,most treatments are money earners,only salt at 3% or zinc oxide will work..salt is not the best as its normally first thing in the year we get blanket weed  and thats the time we get a multitude of parasites showing up and one of the main treatments for parasites is formalin, and you should not use salt with formalin..its also very hard to remove the salt once  its in the pond,I used it as i heated my pond through the winter...zinc oxide is the way to go,never heard anyone having any problems with it...


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## dw1305 (24 Apr 2013)

Hi all,
Dilute solutions of salt (NaCl), zinc oxide (ZnO) (or copper sulphate (CuSO4·5H2O)) or any other biocide (herbicide etc) will work, but they are just dealing with the obvious symptom, rather than the cause. I think the point you need to bear in mind is that they are all broad action biocides are potentially going to have wide ranging and potentially long lasting deleterious effects to plant growth, invertebrates and potentially fish health.

Would I voluntarily add a heavy metal to pond water? not in a thousand years.

Zinc oxide works because it is sparingly soluble in water, but is degraded by most acids, (so HCl would give:
  - ZnO + 2 HCl → ZnCl2 + H2O). This makes the likelihood of a sudden catastrophic kill more unlikely, but there still may be long term sub lethal effects.

Whilst the Zn++ ions (Free Ion Activity Model (FIAM)) are in the water column they are toxic to nearly all organisms and also strongly acidic. The RAM of Zn is 65.4 and a 3 microM solution is toxic to _Daphnia, _so that is about (65.4/1000)  x 3 = 0.2g per litre Zn++.

cheers Darrel


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## weasel (24 Apr 2013)

Fair comment Darrel but you'll never sort the problem till you get rid of the blanket weed as it traps allsorts of detritus which only ads to the problem..its been proven that zinc oxide can also reduce the pathogens in the pond...


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## dw1305 (25 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> but you'll never sort the problem till you get rid of the blanket weed as it traps allsorts of detritus which only ads to the problem


Personally I'd be much keener on the blanket weed and detritus, rather than the zinc. Shading like "Foxfish" suggests is a much safer option, and if "Plantbrain" picks this thread up he may be able to suggest appropriate herbicides, and he may also be able to tell you if he thinks that zinc oxide is a good option <Ecological Stoichiometry & Algae. | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.


weasel said:


> ...its been proven that zinc oxide can also reduce the pathogens in the pond...


For me that is the problem really, it is like copper (Cu) they are both essential trace elements (for both plants and animals at low concentrations), and highly toxic biocides at higher concentrations.

If you have enough zinc ions in solution to kill your green algae, I would be very surprised if that isn't enough to also have long term health effects on the fish.

Have a look at: "Zinc Hazards to Fish, Wildlife, and Invertebrates: A Synoptic Review"
<http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/infobase/eisler/CHR_26_Zinc.pdf>


> Proposed criteria for protection of aquatic life include mean zinc concentrations of <47 to <59 μg/L in fresh water. Results of recent studies, however, show significant adverse effects on a growing number of freshwater organisms in the range of 5 to 51 μg Zn/L suggesting that some downward modification in the proposed criteria is necessary.


 Just to show how little zinc that is, the values quoted are much smaller than 1ppm Zn, (1ppm is 1000μg Zn/L).

cheers Darrel


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## weasel (25 Apr 2013)

zinc Zn and zinc oxide Zn0 are totaly different,maybe there getting mixed up here..zinc is leathal to fish i know but zinc oxide is used as food additives,calamine lotion,barrier creams,baby lotions,sun creams,to name a few,if it was bad for the fish then the bacteria in the filter would be wiped out and as far as im aware, it has no adverse affects on the filter,if you dose Pottasium permanganate to the pond the filter is affected,  same with any parasite treatment..but these are accepted to be normal treatments...thanks for the links, good reading...


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## martin-green (25 Apr 2013)

I am not too sure about zinc oxide, perhaps this "information film" will help.


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## weasel (25 Apr 2013)

Funny sketch..Not seen that for years,...


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## lurch1000 (25 Apr 2013)

Brilliant!


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## dw1305 (26 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> zinc Zn and zinc oxide Zn0 are totaly different,maybe there getting mixed up here..zinc is leathal to fish i know but zinc oxide is used as food additives,calamine lotion,barrier creams,baby lotions,sun creams.


I'm not being funny here, or getting confused, but this is just simple chemistry, if the ZnO wasn't converted to Zn++ ions in solution it wouldn't kill anything. By definition you have enough Zn++ ions to kill your green algae.

*Any element is only bio-active as an ion in solution*. That is where the FIAM comes in <Free Ion Activity Model>.

This is from "Comparative Toxicity of Nanoparticulate ZnO, Bulk ZnO, and ZnCl2 to a Freshwater Microalga (_Pseudokirchneriella subcapitata_): The Importance of Particle Solubility"


> Metal oxide nanoparticles are finding increasing application in various commercial products, leading to concerns for their environmental fate and potential toxicity. It is generally assumed that nanoparticles will persist as small particles in aquatic systems and that their bioavailability could be significantly greater than that of larger particles. The current study using nanoparticulate ZnO (ca. 30 nm) has shown that this is not always so. Particle characterization using transmission electron microscopy and dynamic light scattering techniques showed that particle aggregation is significant in a freshwater system, resulting in flocs ranging from several hundred nanometers to several microns. Chemical investigations using equilibrium dialysis demonstrated rapid dissolution of ZnO nanoparticles in a freshwater medium (pH 7.6), with a saturation solubility in the milligram per liter range, similar to that of bulk ZnO. Toxicity experiments using the freshwater alga _Pseudokirchneriella subcapitata_ revealed comparable toxicity for nanoparticulate ZnO, bulk ZnO, and ZnCl2, with a 72-h IC50 value near 60 µg Zn/L, attributable solely to dissolved zinc.





> if it was bad for the fish then the bacteria in the filter would be wiped out and as far as im aware, it has no adverse affects on the filte


Zinc is a biocide, it will kill all living organisms at high enough levels. How many Zn++ ions you get in your water will depend upon pH, O2 concentration, presence of natural chelators etc. It is a ticking time bomb.

cheers Darrel


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## martin-green (26 Apr 2013)

I do not disbelieve any of the "chemists" but it would seem it goes back to what I said in the first place.

There is no chemical 100% cure for blanket weed that works for all ponds. (That is safe for fish / wild life)

There is one solution though, a stick.


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## plantbrain (26 Apr 2013)

Algaefix will work, the algaicide is Busan 77 actually. Not sure if it's allowed in the UK, generally not. 

The best method I've found for pond clients : pack the pond full by the last week in march with Hyacinth, water lettuce etc at my climate region/Latitude.
About 2 weeks before you know the bloom is coming.
Order from the plant suppliers then.
Another good chemical is sodium percarbonate, then kills algae on surfaces.
As a carbonate salt, it will raise the KH/alkalinity.
This should be available in the UK.

These 3 methods are better than copper or Zinc.

Adding a lot of plant biomass(say 30-50% coverage) that 2 week period before the water and light heats up is key.
Then you do not need any chemicals.

You can also stock things like Flagfish etc that eats hair algae but not plants, or many carps will, but then you have no plants and pea soup.


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

It sounds like you know what your talking about Darrel,I wont lie to you mate I really dont no alot about chemistry so i will listen to what you have to say as it interests me...All i know is everyone i know who's tried it, has had no problem .


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Algaefix will work, the algaicide is Busan 77 actually. Not sure if it's allowed in the UK, generally not.
> 
> The best method I've found for pond clients : pack the pond full by the last week in march with Hyacinth, water lettuce etc at my climate region/Latitude.
> About 2 weeks before you know the bloom is coming.
> ...


 
Hi have you any more info on sodium percarbonate, as in dose rates per litre,if im correct this is made from sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide..


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## dw1305 (28 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> It sounds like you know what your talking about Darrel,I wont lie to you mate I really dont no alot about chemistry


I'm not a chemist either, but we've done a lot of work in the lab. on the remediation of landfill leachate, mainly looking at biological filtration in microbial systems (like a canister filter) and in combined microbial/plant systems (like a planted trickle filter) . Landfill leachate is fairly nasty for all sorts of reasons, both biologically (huge BOD) and chemically (Cd from batteries etc, Cu, Pb, Zn), but you can reduce heavy metals toxicity if you can immobilize the metal ions (mainly by chelation and precipitation as insoluble compounds) and raise the pH.


plantbrain said:


> Adding a lot of plant biomass(say 30-50% coverage) that 2 week period before the water and light heats up is key. Then you do not need any chemicals.


Tom is the "man who can" and it is definitely the approach I'd favour as well.

Have a look at this post <Dealing with the green | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

cheers Darrel


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## plantbrain (28 Apr 2013)

Algicides such as copper are being phased out as much as possible in the USA. Organic herbicides and algicides are better over time and with repeated use since they break down mostly into CO2, water and maybe Chloride, Nitrogen etc.
The only way to get rid of copper is a Nuke reactor and split the atom or dig up the soil and move it elsewhere, or use plants to sequester the soil copper etc.

Plants are the best method, you need to make sure the vendors can supply enough plant biomass that early in the season for you.
Or have an indoor covered greenhouse or something to do your own grow out.


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## foxfish (28 Apr 2013)

I presently look after 7 substantial kio ponds under contract & believe me if there was an effective & safe product to rid the dreaded weed i would be first in the queue to buy it!
Personally I am a fish lover & I have no intensions of even potentially harming or stressing my customers valuable fish, the idea of adding salt or any chemicals is not something I would do lightly.
I know there are lots of Koi forums out there suggesting this that & the other but I only have a working life times experience to go on in my real world & I suggest shade in one form or another.
Some of the later builds that I built have huge back washable under gravel filter beds that are loaded with plants & interestingly so do the very fist few I built 25 odd years ago.
These pond have very little, if any nuisance weed but, many of the ponds I built in between with fancy filter systems & other devices like ozone generators & hundreds of watts of UV do have algae issues!
In fact I built a 10,000gal pond 27 years ago that still runs the same planted filter bed, has no shade & no blanket weed!
I joined a koi forum once & talked about the 23 years old filter bed & just got a load of experts telling me just how bad & dangerous the situation was & that i should upgrade the filter system for something more modern ... well 4 years on its still going in my real world LOL...


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## weasel (28 Apr 2013)

Has anyone used the anoxic filter system invented by kevin novak


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