# NeilW's 30cm Iwagumi - 'Mono'



## NeilW

Created this journal for my new nano 'scape as any help, advice, or criticisms are always greatly welcome to me.

I had a steep learning curve in how to grow plants and position elements within a composition from my previous tank.  The straw that broke the camels back in making my decision to start afresh was fighting a losing battle with Oliver Knott Nature Soil Vs. Sand.  Fortunately this gives me the opportunity to spend many an hour 'geeking out' with plant research and working out all the little details.

I was fortunate enough to find another 12x10x8" AquaEssentials Opti-White (this time for less pennies through Ebay) which is my favourite format of tank I have used so far.  Getting a whole other tank means I can dry-start my new 'scape and switch the livestock at a later date from my old set-up.  This was a trick I learnt from before which means I can be confident the substrate has cycled and plants are better established.  Eventually I want to try something new and aim for low-tech so my plant choice will reflect this.  

The idea for this layout is a striking single stone composition.  I used to visit Avebury when I lived local so maybe a bit of that soaked in.  I have recently been reading much about the japanese appreciation of nature and how this has greatly changed their whole cultural aesthetic for uni.  Although not a single rock composition, here is the the 'wedded rocks' of Meoto Iwa;





Strong graphic shapes really appeal to me, with my 'less is more' outlook.  Hence "Mono".

If you wanted to see some of my inspiration;  
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2009.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=0&id=159
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/hannover2010nano
http://www.aquadam.com.pl/_uploads/thumb/15_jpg_820_100_forcewidth.jpg
http://www.aqua-store.com.ua/content/upload/nano8/26.jpg






possible plantlist:-
_Vesicularia Dubyana_ - 'Christmas' Moss    
_Taxiphyllum Barbieri_ - 'Java' Moss            
_Riccardia Chamedryfolia_ - Mini Pellia           
_Anubias Nana_  'petite'                              
_Eleocharis Parvula_ - dwarf hairgrass             
_Marsilea Hirsuta_ 
_Cryptocoryne parva_
? Staurogyne sp. 
? Rotala rotundifolia  

So far I've collected together the tank, 5 litres of Columbo Flora Base in brown, 2 pots of Crypt Parva and 2 pots of anubias nana 'petite'

Thanks for looking  
-Neil


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## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's "Mono"*

That stone is cool Neil, looks like really water worn wood. Has the Xmas moss grown much?


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Buzzing with ideas now...got some Ohko stone on its way from Plantedbox (patiently sorted out by James ).  Also been reading a lot of books on Shinto/Buddhist aesthetics for uni, fascinating stuff - really worth checking out just for a completely different perspective on nature.


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## Steve Smith

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Sounds great Neil   What are you studying, if you don't mind me asking?


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Sounds great Neil   What are you studying, if you don't mind me asking?



Graphic Design in Winchester School of Art.  I always find it interesting to find inspiration outside of looking at the next designer, otherwise it can all get a bit 'stylised' and circular.  Nice to see parallels between design and planted tanks too.

Hopefully I'll get rolling with some pictures soon, I don't think I can get away with a typed journal forever


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## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Hopefully I'll get rolling with some pictures soon, I don't think I can get away with a typed journal forever


i dunno,have a look at some of mark's journals   .only joking  mark  .


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Bit of an update.  Got some Ohko Stone in the post from Plantedbox on Monday (thanks again James!).  What an amazing rock it is!  The colour changes a lot based on the ambient light which I didn't realise and the detail is like something formed in an ancient cave.  Very nice.  In the last couple of days I've hammered out the ideal shape, glued back on some broken pieces (not realising how brittle this stuff is! ) and also cut to size a piece of eggcrate kindly donated from some reef bloke at Aquajardin. 

This is the beauty in question;





Basically I was after some opinions on final placement of the rock.  Seems daft asking about the simple change between centred and left but I think it makes a big difference;











Any thoughts?  Apologies for the poor photography.

Cheers,
-Neil


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## Steve Smith

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

I reckon try it to the right, so it's essentially leaning into the middle, perhaps rotated slighty?

Nice bit of rock!


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## chilled84

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

I think to the left as in last pic would be great as tyhe bottom of the rock would suit the contours of the substrate better and seem more natural.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> I reckon try it to the right, so it's essentially leaning into the middle, perhaps rotated slighty?
> 
> Nice bit of rock!



Trouble is I'm stuck with having my lilypipes to the right side of the tank so they'd be in the way  
I think I'll rotate it more however to reveal a bit more of the 'cavey' structure on the right side of the stone  



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> I think to the left as in last pic would be great as tyhe bottom of the rock would suit the contours of the substrate better and seem more natural.



Sorry its a bit deceptive, the substrate would slope toward the back so bottom part of the rock would be no probs.

Not sure whether to 'scape it soon just using the Columbo Flora Base or wait and also go for some extra 'umph' with ADA Powersand Special?


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## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Nice rock Neil, I think just a bit more to the left of centre than it is in the top photo. Are you having any supporting stones? How about ADA malaya ? would complement the tone of the stone, kind of depends on what your planting. T


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## viktorlantos

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

maybe i will be the only person here to say this, but i would brake this stone to 2-3 pieces. the stone is nice but with this size it's hard to imagine this will look natural at the end. maybe i am wrong. this is not negative. just what i am thinking. breaking this stone (which is easy to do) to 2-3 pieces you still could enjoy the texture and you will have more flexibility on the scape.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Nice rock Neil, I think just a bit more to the left of centre than it is in the top photo. Are you having any supporting stones? How about ADA malaya ? would complement the tone of the stone, kind of depends on what your planting. T



Cheers T.  When I get the substrate in there I think I'll add some smaller rocks as 'rubble' around the base but no supporting stones as such. I've got flora base in brown which is pretty much the same colour as Malaya?  



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> maybe i will be the only person here to say this, but i would brake this stone to 2-3 pieces. the stone is nice but with this size it's hard to imagine this will look natural at the end. maybe i am wrong. this is not negative. just what i am thinking. breaking this stone (which is easy to do) to 2-3 pieces you still could enjoy the texture and you will have more flexibility on the scape.



Funnily enough Viktor it is in three pieces already where I was a bit heavy handed with the chisel   
I think I can see what you are saying, hopefully it'll look more 'natural' when its planted up; imagine just one rock or boulder from a landscape but in isolation.  

Another possibility is to have a pair of stones, the second being smaller.  I'm aiming for some striking graphic shapes with the rock but without going for the default Amano style 'Iwagumi'.


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## bumcrumb

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

im following this journal very closely lol, I'm basically doing what you are doing in a opti white aqua essentials tank in the kitchen.
i was thinking of the same rock but 2 pieces, one large to the left and a smaller piece next to it on the right/slightly in front of the large and having mainly eleocharis parvula and some eleocharis acicularis around the rocks like a open field look.
i think you should put your rock into 2/3 pieces and slightly tilt the main one a bit (natural looking)
keep it up!!


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Thanks bumcrumb, I'll try keep it updated

Couple of weeks back I bought two pots of _Cryptocoryne Parva_ for this new scape but are currently left in their pots in my current setup.  From my little experience of crypts in the the flesh I expected them to be rather dull and slow growing.   When I did some maintenance this week I was amazed to see that they'd rooted right through the pot by about 2 inches  !  They've also developed a rather nice brown tiger stripe.  All the pictures I'd seen of parva were very green!






Not sure how they will adapt to growing emersed in the dry-start up but fingers crossed.


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## chump54

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

oh thats very nice I've only ever seen pale green pictures. I've just ordered some so hopefully it'll be similar. you got some good root growth in a couple of weeks.

Chris


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

More ideas for compositions using the suggested two rocks (bit of imagination needed for the sloping substrate); 











I prefer the first.  I think it goes against my initial idea but maybe worth rolling with?  Any thoughts welcome as always


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## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

I was thinking along the lines of your title....'mono' quite possibly, you could create a monolith style scape?

The stone is stunning (almost wish i had it) for the iwagumi style to work, you'd need much smaller supporting stones IMO

and at least 3 in total.


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## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

It reminds me of those vietnamese islands. The limestone ones. I'm unbelievably jealous. I personally would like a supporting rock the same size as the one in scape two but pointy like in scape one.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> I was thinking along the lines of your title....'mono' quite possibly, you could create a monolith style scape?
> 
> The stone is stunning (almost wish i had it) for the iwagumi style to work, you'd need much smaller supporting stones IMO
> 
> and at least 3 in total.



I think your right, I've gone a bit off track when I should really be creating a monolith style 'scape to reflect the title.  So just the one standing stone.  Some of my first ideas maybe the way to go?  I know I want to steer away from the traditional Iwagumi thats for sure.  The problem I'm having is deciding how complicated to go; need to consider additional small stones, the possibility of using wood, emergent elements, planting etc etc. 

The stone I got hold of from your partner in crime after some lengthy bouncing of ideas, what a great service you guys run .  I had to use some artistic hammering too.    



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> It reminds me of those vietnamese islands. The limestone ones. I'm unbelievably jealous. I personally would like a supporting rock the same size as the one in scape two but pointy like in scape one.



I'll Google those islands, cheers Garuf.   

Oh, been doing some research and here are the plants I like the look of;

*Rock *
_Anubias Nana_ 'petitie'                               
_Riccardia chamedryfolia_ - Mini Pellia
*Wood*
_Vesicularia Dubyana_	- 'Christmas' Moss      
*Foreground* 
_Taxiphyllum barbieri_ - 'Java' Moss         - on small stones ('carpet'?)
_Eleocharis parvula_ - dwarf hairgrass
_Marsilea Hirsuta_ 
*Midground*
_Cryptocoryne Parva_
_Cryptocoryne Wendtii_ 'Tropica'


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono"*

Decided to go for it and scape my tank today .  Went down to the garden centre and got hold of some osmocote (although I could only find the 6 month release).  So heres the setup.  Sorry its a bit image heavy  

Bags of goodies






I took an age sieving the Flora Base into finer and larger grains but definitely worth it for a nano





One tidy silicon Aqua Essentials 12 x 10 x 8" opti-white 





Critical stone positioning.  In the end I was very limited in where I could place it without completely killing flow and was also stuck with having lilypipes to the right.





I decided I needed a 'beach' area in this tank as it makes it a lot easier to feed the shrimp





Making use of graded gravels to 'plug' any gaps below the soil surface.  Was also very careful to position rocks in such a way as to create a proper barrier.  Hopefully this will be OK, hard lessons learnt there  










Sprinkling of Osmocote





Larger grains of Flora Base added





Topped with finer 'powder'





Detailing added





Final hardscaping





When I plant it up it will also have some larger moss covered gravels around the base of the big stone.

Always good showing you guys stuff, any comments always welcome   

Cheers
-Neil


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## JamesM

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

 from me bud


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> from me bud



Thanks very much James, I'm hoping I did that rock justice


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## chump54

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

that does look great. The gravel section is brilliant but there isn't enough of it. what about if it ran the length of the front.

Chris


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## B7fec

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

 absolutely love it! the rock looks great especially with the other smaller rocks and beach area, it makes the tank look a lot bigger than it actually is great work mate!


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## Vito

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

its the nuts, Im going to have to get some of this rock for my next scape


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## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

It looks really good, the rock is beautiful.

I like the egg crate material keeping the rock up, good trick.  

Why moss? I would have just hairgrass, with a open area on the front..


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## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> any comments always welcome



erm....Thats a bit good! 

You've managed to work in the other stones in a brilliant manner.

The gravel could of worked all the way along the front, but still has potential to be viewed from 2 sides this way.

Top stuff


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## Dan Crawford

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

That's looking great!


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## Dan Walter

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

That's awesome, Neil! I NEED a nano in my life


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> that does look great. The gravel section is brilliant but there isn't enough of it. what about if it ran the length of the front.
> 
> Chris


Cheers .  I was thinking about the sand running the length of the front but it was a bit of a compromise as I wasn't up for any soil vs. sand headaches.  This way theres only a tiny amount of sand that can easily be cleaned or replaced.  I always wonder how people keep those 'island' layouts nice and clean   



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> absolutely love it! the rock looks great especially with the other smaller rocks and beach area, it makes the tank look a lot bigger than it actually is great work mate!


Thanks a lot.  Hopefully I don't blow the scale completely with the planting.



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> its the nuts, Im going to have to get some of this rock for my next scape


Really tasty rock Vito, definitely worth it.  Have a word with JamesM and he'll sort you out.  I was amazed by the colour how it changes under different lighting and when its wet.  The detailing goes on forever too, the amount of clay this stone is full off its like unearthing a fossil!  Thanks for the feedback too  



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> It looks really good, the rock is beautiful.
> 
> I like the egg crate material keeping the rock up, good trick.
> 
> Why moss? I would have just hairgrass, with a open area on the front..


Cheers Luis.

Got the idea of using egg crate a while back, I said it as a passing comment chatting away in Aquajardin and the helpful reef bloke just gave me a chunk for free!  I attached it using blobs of Milliput so it doesn't slip.  I had to be careful to cut it as small as possible too as its meant to stop the movement of nutrients in the substrate.   

I would have liked to have gone for a nice low carpeting plant but I'm going low-tech (ish) as my shrimp aren't a fan of liquid carbon so theres not many choices.  I'm going for a bit of a compromise using moss tied to small gravel with accents of dwarf hairgrass (I'm not sure how well this will do) and _Marsilea Hirsuta_ (I havn't used this before but I've seen it in a couple of Oliver Knott 'scapes and seems to do well low-tech - not a fan of the emersed '4 leaf clover' though so hopefully the transition will be quick)



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> erm....Thats a bit good!
> 
> You've managed to work in the other stones in a brilliant manner.
> 
> The gravel could of worked all the way along the front, but still has potential to be viewed from 2 sides this way.
> 
> Top stuff


Thanks for such incredible feedback Saintly!  Can you come and plant it up for me?!    



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> That's looking great!


Thanks Dan  

Hopefully I don't break it with the planting!  



			
				Dan Walter said:
			
		

> That's awesome, Neil! I NEED a nano in my life


Cheers Dan.  Get one, everyone can always fit in that extra tank


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## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



> Marsilea Hirsuta (I havn't used this before but I've seen it in a couple of Oliver Knott 'scapes and seems to do well low-tech - not a fan of the emersed '4 leaf clover' though so hopefully the transition will be quick)



I have some already transitioned, so I can send you some runners. they are about 20cm in lenght, and it is time I trimmed them.. 

The plant grows fast, although I have a CO2 and nutrient rich water column. 

Let me know if you want to try them out.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> I have some already transitioned, so I can send you some runners. they are about 20cm in lenght, and it is time I trimmed them..
> 
> The plant grows fast, although I have a CO2 and nutrient rich water column.
> 
> Let me know if you want to try them out.



Thanks I'll keep that in mind .  Trouble is I'm dry starting so it may not do them any good going back to emersed?  20cm tall?! All the stuff I'd seen is a lot shorter, I may need to reconsider my choice?


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Realised I hadn't put a side view yesterday so I took one today;





Also removed some of the soil towards the back and right sides of the tank.





More 'beach' detailing.





Close-up of the 'shrimp cave'  





Possible planting plan





Sorry to inflict yet more pictures.

Cheers,
Neil


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## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> ghostsword said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some already transitioned, so I can send you some runners. they are about 20cm in lenght, and it is time I trimmed them..
> 
> The plant grows fast, although I have a CO2 and nutrient rich water column.
> 
> Let me know if you want to try them out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I'll keep that in mind .  Trouble is I'm dry starting so it may not do them any good going back to emersed?  20cm tall?! All the stuff I'd seen is a lot shorter, I may need to reconsider my choice?
Click to expand...


In length.. the runners are going from the mother plant 20cm away. 

It is very short, about 1cm.


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## chump54

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

the more pictures the better...for me anyway

nice plant choices. 

Chris


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## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

The marsilea I have, original plant at the back:




Creeping over 20cm away from the main plant:


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> In length.. the runners are going from the mother plant 20cm away.
> 
> It is very short, about 1cm.



That looks the part, like an imitation glosso .  That would be great if I could take some off your hands for a few of my finest pounds?  When were you planning the big trim?  Would be great if I could coincide it with ordering all my other plants.  Do you think it will stay in its submerged form for a few weeks?



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> the more pictures the better...for me anyway
> 
> nice plant choices.
> 
> Chris



I'll try and keep it updated with more pictures then!  I don't have experience with any crypts so I thought I would try something new.  I got the _Parva_ in my current setup ready to go and it seems to be doing alright.


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## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Neil, no issue. I am not planning any trim, but got lots..  can easily take half out, they are all connected on a single stem, so easy to pluck it out.

Let me know when you want them, I can pop a couple on a envelope and send it to you.


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## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Man, this is a brilliant hardscape..... I just had to say it again  8)


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## JamesM

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Indeed man, that's awesome!


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## Jase

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

I want to like it more than I do, I can see why everyone is singing its praises, but for me it looks very unnatural. The 'lines' (strata) on the different rocks don't follow each other and the one at the back is facing in the opposite direction. If this was in natural water course the stratum would all follow the same lines of erosion. That aside, I think this will be negated once the plants are in


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## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Actually too good, I wouldn't go with standard hairgrass in the front if you're going to use any I'd suggest the belem or sp japan variety as it stays much smaller. That or not use it at all. I can't wait to see this come to fruition, I'm jealous to the extreme, I wish it were mine.


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## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Excellent nano  wants me to do something more now with my current nano! I should have nicked the Dragon Stone Steve purchased at LV last weekend lol

Looking forward to seeing this progressing, keep us posted and congrats


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Neil, no issue. I am not planning any trim, but got lots..  can easily take half out, they are all connected on a single stem, so easy to pluck it out.
> 
> Let me know when you want them, I can pop a couple on a envelope and send it to you.


Lovely, much appreciated.  I'll give you a shout when I start the green fingered bit.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Man, this is a brilliant hardscape..... I just had to say it again  8)


Thanks again Saintly!  I just wish I had your crazy plant and camera skills to do it justice  



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Indeed man, that's awesome!


I couldn't have got any ideas to work through trawling through mountains of rocks at the local fish shops so you were just the bloke to speak to!   Thanks again bud.   



			
				Jase said:
			
		

> I want to like it more than I do, I can see why everyone is singing its praises, but for me it looks very unnatural. The 'lines' (strata) on the different rocks don't follow each other and the one at the back is facing in the opposite direction. If this was in natural water course the stratum would all follow the same lines of erosion. That aside, I think this will be negated once the plants are in



I agree the strata is out, the main stone _should_ have the point angled towards the back left, made me scratch my head a bit when I was setting up.  The smaller stone on the right at the back I may take a look at and twist 180Â° to go with the grain of the rest of the strata.  That was the one I wasn't sure about.  What do you think?

I can see what your saying but I'm not fussed about the main stone being out, in nature 'odd' stones do exist for various reasons.  I'll keep telling myself that anyways  

Thanks for your feedback  



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Actually too good, I wouldn't go with standard hairgrass in the front if you're going to use any I'd suggest the belem or sp japan variety as it stays much smaller. That or not use it at all. I can't wait to see this come to fruition, I'm jealous to the extreme, I wish it were mine.



Thanks Garuf  .  I was going to go for the dwarf version.  Did you know where I could get hold of some of the grasses you speak of?  Also would they be OK to use low-tech?



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Excellent nano  wants me to do something more now with my current nano! I should have nicked the Dragon Stone Steve purchased at LV last weekend lol
> 
> Looking forward to seeing this progressing, keep us posted and congrats



Thanks for your kind comments LD   Would Steve have been very happy if he went home Dragon Stone-less?   I hadn't seen Dragon Stone before I set this tank up but its very nice stuff!


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## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Hmmm. No I'm not sure they'd be suitable. The only place I've seen the hairgrass I said is on the aquaspot lists. I used to have some that I got from Ed Seeley. A very pretty plant but I'm not sure it's low tech suitable.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Hmmm. No I'm not sure they'd be suitable. The only place I've seen the hairgrass I said is on the aquaspot lists. I used to have some that I got from Ed Seeley. A very pretty plant but I'm not sure it's low tech suitable.


Thanks for the suggestion anyhow.  Maybe I'll not use the hairgrass, it doesn't do great in my current non CO2 setup - I get a lot of brown die-back.  Maybe just go for the _Marsilea Hirsuta_ mixed in with the moss stones in the foreground?


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## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

I would personally suggest you go mid tech and dose excel, that way you open yourself up to more species. M h takes a very long time to carpet like gloss does unless planted extremely densely from the off your left with a very low biomass and it looks a bit unsightly.


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## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I would personally suggest you go mid tech and dose excel, that way you open yourself up to more species. M h takes a very long time to carpet like gloss does unless planted extremely densely from the off your left with a very low biomass and it looks a bit unsightly.



I didn't want to use liquid carbon as I don't think my shrimp were happy with it.  They stopped breeding.  I also wanted to have some coral pelia on the big rock and liverworts aren't keen either   Bit of a shame as you say it would open up more possibilities.  

Just tweaked a couple of the stones on Jase's advice, I think I've cracked having the strata all the same direction (apart from the main stone)


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## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Looking at your planting plan, the crypt wenditti tropica will be far too big. The plan will also give an odd shape, personally I'd use just c. parva and hairgrass, needless to say you would keep the moss stones.

Also, coral pelia is supposed to be a moss according to Tropica. I don't know about shrimp and excel, never had much luck with shrimp in Stokes water, its such a great scape I personally wouldn't let the live stock ruin it, that's just me though.


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

shirmps do not care about liquid carbon once adapted. start with 1/4 dosage and increase it weekly, good luck


----------



## bogwood

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Just read your journal for the first time, very enjoyable. You certainly have the eye for creating a impressive scape with the rocks alone.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				bogwood said:
			
		

> Just read your journal for the first time, very enjoyable. You certainly have the eye for creating a impressive scape with the rocks alone.



Thanks very much for your kind comments.  Thats great to hear you enjoyed having a look through the journal.  I try and keep it up-to-date for my own sake as a diary, but I always like having a nose through other peoples journals as its just nice to see how people go about things differently and their inspiration.    

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## Mortis

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Maybe you could reduce the number of the rounded pebbles, I feel that they are overpowering the shattered dragon stone


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				Mortis said:
			
		

> Maybe you could reduce the number of the rounded pebbles, I feel that they are overpowering the shattered dragon stone



I can see what you mean there, I hadn't noticed.  I think I'll reduce them at the front, cheers


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Got hold of this little critter today;





My intention is to improve the genepool for the new set up so they don't become hill-billy .  I walked in to a local shop today to find they have a new shrimp specific setup which is basically 5 barebottom nano's (one containing S grade CRS ) fed from one massive sump.  Was surprised to see in the sump was a marine style refugium but with Amazon Frogbit instead of macro algae! Genius way to showcase the shrimp I thought.

Just been musing what moss to tie to the stone to form a loose carpet.  I was after something that grows compact and 'tight' almost like the terrestrial stuff.  I would love to go all out and get mini pellia for the whole tank but my pockets are too short  Fissidens was another thought but I'm not a fan of the 'repeating' leaf shape so was thinking maybe Christmas as it seems to grow flat, or found this stuff;
http://www.aquashrimps.co.uk/products/Mini-Spiky-Moss.html

Any suggestions in my quest for the holy grail of moss would be great  

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Found another possibility for short terrestrial style moss with Oliver Knotts use of Marimo balls;
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/48595106

Has anyone had any experience with them or do they tend to look naff?

Another option was this stuff;
http://www.aquashrimps.co.uk/products/Mini-Spiky-Moss.html

What do you people think?

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

I like the mini-spiky moss. Moss for me seems to go the brighter the light, the more compact the moss. T


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> I like the mini-spiky moss. Moss for me seems to go the brighter the light, the more compact the moss. T



I think your right, I think the true moss will be more rewarding.  After a bit more research it seems the Marimo is either very slow, unpredictable or just ugly.  Thanks for the quick reply T.


----------



## sanj

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but i think the wendtii will hide the parva in your plan. I would put the wendtii at the back and parva in front of it. I have found that parva grows more slowly aswell.


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*

Hi, I agree with Sanj.

I got both on my tank, and the Wendtii overshowed the parva in no time. As I got both potted on 15 cm pots, it was easy to move them about.

Also, Wendtii will grow towards the light, long leaves, and Parva will creep and remain much short. 

I would place them on opposites sides of the tank, allowing for a slope of Crypts


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Hardscaped 29/04/10]*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but i think the wendtii will hide the parva in your plan. I would put the wendtii at the back and parva in front of it. I have found that parva grows more slowly aswell.





			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Hi, I agree with Sanj.
> 
> I got both on my tank, and the Wendtii overshowed the parva in no time. As I got both potted on 15 cm pots, it was easy to move them about.
> 
> Also, Wendtii will grow towards the light, long leaves, and Parva will creep and remain much short.
> 
> I would place them on opposites sides of the tank, allowing for a slope of Crypts



I agree with you guys, I clicked the other week that it would be too big and had a redrawn plan but forgot to post it up   I also realised that the plant that I'd previously bought thinking it was Parva was actually _Cryptocoryne Willisii_ ! The colour change and size gave it away.  Thats good to know that Parva stays small for a long time though as my intention is to have some in front of the Willisii.   

Heres an updated plan;






I think I'm going to order the plants in tomorrow if this all seems good?

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Today all my plants came in the post at once!  Some great quality stuff from both TGM and Aquashrimps.  

*Bucket o' plants (minus the moss) = 2 x Anubias Nana 'petite', 1 x Cryptocoryne Parva, 1 x Cryptocoryne Ã— Willisii, 1 x dwarf hairgrass*





*Getting ready to roll;*





*Broken lavastone - I learnt from my previous tank that moss doesn't like shiny graded gravels  *





*Never owned a plant before that could be 'glued' so one Anubias stuck in a cranny on the back of the big rock just because I could, and a little surprise after you looked at the tank from the front;*





*This is to show you how 'mini' the 'mini' spiky moss is that I managed to get hold of;*





*Planting complete 8) *





*Timer set for 10 hours a day*





*So the full plantlist;*
_Anubias nana_ 'petite'
_Cryptocoryne parva_ 
_Cryptocoryne Ã— willisii_, 
_Eleocharis parvula_ - dwarf hairgrass
_Riccardia chamedryfolia_ - coral pellia
_Taxiphyllum sp._ - 'mini' spiky moss

Any critique welcome as always  
Neil


----------



## Krishs Bettas

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Yay plants are in    it looks good. i like the mini spiky moss.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Wow!  Great journal.  Not sure how I missed this one!

The hardscape selection, prep work and positioning is excellent and the plant choice is superb.

This is one to watch for sure.


----------



## patzu

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Great! Looks absolute naturally!


----------



## samc

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

excellent hardscape and planting.

ill look foward to seeing it in a couple of months time


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Excellent tank  hardscape and planting spot on, I also got some of that mini spiky moss a few weeks back, its growing nicely and an amazing moss indeed


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Krish's Bettas said:
			
		

> Yay plants are in    it looks good. i like the mini spiky moss.



Cheers Krish, I'm really interested to see how the moss grow's out.  Took a while to research and find someone that sells the sort of thing I was after so hopefully it'll look the part.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Wow!  Great journal.  Not sure how I missed this one!
> 
> The hardscape selection, prep work and positioning is excellent and the plant choice is superb.
> 
> This is one to watch for sure.



Thanks very much for such incredible feedback George!  I think it can only go downhill from here  

I'll try to keep the journal updated, but I think its got a good month or so of emersed growth before its filled with water so I think any updates soon would be like watching grass grow (literally!).  Hopefully being patient will mean a smooth transition for when its filled though.



			
				patzu said:
			
		

> Great! Looks absolute naturally!



Thanks Patzu.  Thats great to hear that effect has come across as I tried to go for a more natural transition between the different species groups when I was planting.  Hopefully my plant selection will mean nothing grows massive and over-shadows the rest, but I'll keep on top of trimming. 



			
				samc said:
			
		

> excellent hardscape and planting.
> 
> ill look foward to seeing it in a couple of months time



Thank you Sam  .  I think I've found out that this aquascaping business is a big waiting game  



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Excellent tank  hardscape and planting spot on, I also got some of that mini spiky moss a few weeks back, its growing nicely and an amazing moss indeed



Cheers LD , I'm always aiming to provide a shrimpy-paradise with the same success as your tanks.

Excellent to hear that the moss grows well, is it a fast or slow grower?


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Cheers LD , I'm always aiming to provide a shrimpy-paradise with the same success as your tanks.


Lets hope not as much success as I been having the last couple of months! My main tank due to CO2 issues turned to crap, my shrimp tank is turning to mud again and my CRS have not all disappeared, I managed to kill all 200 (bar a few) cherries I have in my nano tank last friday! 



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Excellent to hear that the moss grows well, is it a fast or slow grower?


I got a little 3x4cm mesh about 2 weeks ago and its has doubled in size in a tank with no dosing at all and just 11w light. I am going to trim a portion of it and attach to my high tech tank and see the difference, seems to grow pretty well though.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Lets hope not as much success as I been having the last couple of months! My main tank due to CO2 issues turned to crap, my shrimp tank is turning to mud again and my CRS have not all disappeared, I managed to kill all 200 (bar a few) cherries I have in my nano tank last friday!



Thats rubbish news  That must have been bad to have killed 200 cherries.  Wish you better luck for the future, I'm sure you'll make a great comeback!  Where its turned to mud does it mean you have to completely tear it down?



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> I got a little 3x4cm mesh about 2 weeks ago and its has doubled in size in a tank with no dosing at all and just 11w light. I am going to trim a portion of it and attach to my high tech tank and see the difference, seems to grow pretty well though.



Sounds great!  Mine will be on an 11w light and I wont be going for CO2 injection, but will be providing with plenty of all round ferts.  I ended up getting 4 lots of 4 x 4 portions and it was just enough with nothing to spare.


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Thats rubbish news  That must have been bad to have killed 200 cherries.  Wish you better luck for the future, I'm sure you'll make a great comeback!  Where its turned to mud does it mean you have to completely tear it down?


Yeah means I have to remove the soil and replace it with something else, next time going to use gravel/sand, been using it for 7 years in my Rio and it never turned to mud haha 

Yeah was painful to watch the cherries, have a video too! it was either an ammonia spike from the hang filter that I touched prior to the shrimp going nuts or a small water change straight from the tap. Loosing the 40+ Red and Black S grade Crystals was even more painful (also to my wallet).


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Just a reminder to myself for when its finally flooded;

- fill and empty, then refill to flush any built up nasties from the DSM
- carbon added to filter to limit ammonia
- 1/4 dosage liquid carbon (shrimp and liverwarts!)
- 1/2 dosage TPN+ (already full of nutrients from DSM)
- W/C every other day 
- lighting period limit to 6 hours

How long do you guys think I should be running the DSM for?  I was thinking a month or so, but I'm guessing any longer is all bonus plant growth?  Would a 6 hour photoperiod be good place to start when its first filled (11watts over 17 litres) ?


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

DSM really relies on temperatures a lot, If you can place it somewhere warm and with good sunlight and you'll get better growth than you would with flouro. 6hours is what I start with typically, you can go as low as 4 if needs be, just depends on how easy you want to take it.


----------



## George Farmer

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> How long do you guys think I should be running the DSM for?  I was thinking a month or so, but I'm guessing any longer is all bonus plant growth?  Would a 6 hour photoperiod be good place to start when its first filled (11watts over 17 litres) ?


I think run the DSM for as long as it takes for the plants to mature to a degree where you're happy...  Only you can decide that - whether it takes 1 month or whatever.  I've no experience of DSM yet, so am not really qualified to say much more.

When it's filled will you be running CO2?  If not then you may need a longer photoperiod.  11w over 17 litres is low-moderate light so longer photoperiods may be necessary, in my experience.

What lighting are you using for the DSM?


----------



## youngstud

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

nice rock.


----------



## youngstud

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

I have a flat one of the same rock


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> DSM really relies on temperatures a lot, If you can place it somewhere warm and with good sunlight and you'll get better growth than you would with flouro. 6hours is what I start with typically, you can go as low as 4 if needs be, just depends on how easy you want to take it.



Fortunately the temp at the moment is rather warm thanks to our unusually sunny weather   Last time I used the DSM was in the depths of winter!  I'll try move it to a more sunny spot though, cheers. 

I knew the minimum that plants respond to was 4 hours but was never patient enough to limit it that much .  I think I'll go for 6 hours.  

Thanks Garuf  



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I think run the DSM for as long as it takes for the plants to mature to a degree where you're happy...  Only you can decide that - whether it takes 1 month or whatever.  I've no experience of DSM yet, so am not really qualified to say much more.



Last scape I had run with the DSM for a month but I think this may take longer to get some decent growth from the moss.  I think as you say I'll have to see how it goes...maybe I need more patience  .  

You should definitely try using the dry start at some point, I think it would work great for a few of your 'scapes (for example your new Glosso-carpet acrylic cube).  Most examples I've seen it used from the Barr Report are for carpeting plants such as Glosso and HC but I've found it even works well for less obvious species.  Got quite a few benefits to it too.  



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> When it's filled will you be running CO2?  If not then you may need a longer photoperiod.  11w over 17 litres is low-moderate light so longer photoperiods may be necessary, in my experience.



I won't be running CO2 at all, possibly only a small dosage of liquid carbon at the start to help adapt the emersed growth (but this would be very sparing due to having both Crystal Red shrimp and Pellia).  Thats interesting to hear that I would need _more_ light with no CO2 - I thought the extra growth from the extended lighting period would result in a carbon deficiency and then algae?  My intention was to start at 6 hours but eventually up it to 8 once it was all settled down.  Would this be enough from what you've experienced?  I've always held back on the lighting so this could be novel to break the 8 hour limit!



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> What lighting are you using for the DSM?



Currently its under a 20w halogen desk lamp. 

Anymore feedback from your vast experience welcome George     For me my tank has always been a good excuse to be a learning-sponge.



			
				youngstud said:
			
		

> nice rock.



Its lovely stuff!


----------



## JohnC

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

that is a stunning use of dragonstone. love it. this is going to be so good when fully grown.

looking on with great interest.

best regards,
john


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				hijac said:
			
		

> that is a stunning use of dragonstone. love it. this is going to be so good when fully grown.
> 
> looking on with great interest.
> 
> best regards,
> john



Thank you very much John   

I hadn't seen dragonstone for real until I set up this tank, I'm well impressed by both the detail and colour of it.  I found it quite odd to work with though because of the way it breaks and being full of clay.   

I havn't posted any updates for a bit as it's not been that interesting - Crypts melted a bit from the change in conditions, moss grown a little, hairgrass a little longer, that sort of thing  .  Sadly still got a long way to go as I want to make sure the soil is properly cycled and theres no ammonia trace   Spray-misting everyday is tedious but hopefully the hard work will pay off.  

Got an idea at the moment of having a planted nano setup to breed blue-tigers so it will be good when I can free up another tank... I just have to laugh at myself sometimes     I got the bug.


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Seems to take plants a few weeks to settle into emerged growth but once they start to grow the results are very good. Looking foreword to this one. T


----------



## Tony Swinney

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Hi Neil

Great journal you have here, and a great tank too - I love the scaping.  I look forward to seeing some fresh pics of the growing in 

Tony


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Seems to take plants a few weeks to settle into emerged growth but once they start to grow the results are very good. Looking foreword to this one. T



Your right on this one T, all the species I've kept seem to have an acclimatising period both emersed and submerged where they don't do much and then BOOM.  Got some noticeable growth though from the moss and hairgrass but the crypts are struggling.  Tempted to go for a flood then drain tomorrow just to rinse out any nasties.  Started to get mould a couple of days back but since decreasing the humidity and airing it out its stopped for now.  



			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Hi Neil
> 
> Great journal you have here, and a great tank too - I love the scaping.  I look forward to seeing some fresh pics of the growing in
> 
> Tony



Cheers Tony, thats a nice compliment as I'm in awe of the rockwork in your new tank  

I'll try and be more lively with some more pictures in the next week - been too busy in the last couple of days with the stressful task of moving both this tank and my old setup to my new house so I'll give both tanks some TLC to make up for the bumpy journey . 

Thanks again for the feedback  
Neil


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Nothing much to report, just thought I'd post some images to demonstrate how painfully slow it is  .  I always need some pretty pictures to keep me entertained too.

some moss growth (imagine that this was flush with the stone like when moss stones are when first tied)






hairgrass roots and runners





Had an experiment too with my first flood for an hour then drain to try and discourage mould and reduce ammonia. Will try and keep this up for a few days.

Thanks for looking,
Neil


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Is it getting any sunlight at all? Are you growing it out under a halogen did I see? It'll come good, just a bit more time yet haha.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Is it getting any sunlight at all? Are you growing it out under a halogen did I see? It'll come good, just a bit more time yet haha.



It was but sadly I moved house on Sunday   Sadly I've not got a lot of room for manoeuvre, I've gone down in space so this tank lives on my desk in the bedroom whilst my old setup is in the living room, neither of which get direct sunlight.

It's on a 20w halogen, maybe worth buying a beefier desk lamp to nuke it?


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Yeah, a flouro tube might be better, it's always been said that halogens are pretty awful at growing plants all that wattage going into heat rather than usable light.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Bit of an update (sorry about the nasty reflections) ;






Got some good moss  and hairgrass growth although the Crytocoryne Nevellii at the back has been melting quite dramatically was in its submerged form when I planted it.  Hopefully it'll recover.





Added an 11w arcpod in addition to the 20w desk lamp for some extra oomph





Coming in the post I got myself a very nice looking vintage Anglepoise from Ebay which will hopefully look great over the tank.  I've got my eye on a couple of different CFL bulbs that should fit but I was after some advice as to what wattage (  ) would be best for this setup, either 11watt or 15watt?  Bearing in mind I wouldn't be running CO2 and its over a volume of 17 litres.   

Due to the crypt melt I may flood it in a weeks time, what do you think?

Any help welcome


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

That is looking really really good


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Bit of an update (sorry about the nasty reflections) ;


that looks brilliant as it is  .

do you need water in it   .


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

your crypt will recover after some time
good job!


----------



## verchap

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

textures are awesome


----------



## mr. luke

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

Screw water, throw in some tree frogs 
I love this tank, will almost be a shame to see it filled


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> That is looking really really good



Thanks very much LD , glad you like it   



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> that looks brilliant as it is  .
> 
> do you need water in it   .



Thanks nelson, I'm too impatient to not fill it!  I've managed to master mold control though (which seems like the land version of algae ) which I'm impressed with!



			
				Jur4ik said:
			
		

> your crypt will recover after some time
> good job!



Cheers!  I'm tempted to keep up with the dry start and trust in the crypt recovering.  Trouble is its like playing chicken because I don't want it to die off completely before I decide to fill it...  

I think I'll hold on!



			
				verchap said:
			
		

> textures are awesome



Thank you, I'm liking the texture of the moss.   Hopefully it keeps the similar texture to terrestrial moss which in really liking at the moment 



			
				mr. luke said:
			
		

> Screw water, throw in some tree frogs
> I love this tank, will almost be a shame to see it filled



Was very tempted.  Trouble is I couldn't be dealing with the bugs you have to feed them


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*

And the tanks a bit small for them. Looks great, keep it going!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - "Mono" [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> And the tanks a bit small for them. Looks great, keep it going!



Thanks Garuf    seems like more work when its not got water in


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

this is a quality set up Neil. Looks great as it is!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> this is a quality set up Neil. Looks great as it is!


  Thanks very much Mark.

I do like the idea of a proper 'scaped terrarium but its a shame you can't get the same clean look you can get from a planted tank, all the condensation on the glass just gets in the way of the view.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Yeah condensations a real issue for me but I've been doing some reading and if you have a went on the front good light and a fan it keeps it dry, it does strike me as added equipment though. I'm certain you can get anti condensation films but I've not been able to find any.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Yeah condensations a real issue for me but I've been doing some reading and if you have a went on the front good light and a fan it keeps it dry, it does strike me as added equipment though. I'm certain you can get anti condensation films but I've not been able to find any.



You may be able to find out what they use for scuba or paintball masks?  Could be a chemical thing they use though which obviously wouldn't be good. 


Had a better new idea of positioning the lily pipes at the back right of the tank so the flow is directed at the front glass and then deflected which should create more circular flow.  My previous idea of having them on the right hand side would create more dead spots from the big rock.  The downside to this would be having to keep my pipes super clean as they would be visible in the background  

What do you guys think for a background finish?  Frosted?  Black?  Although I'm really into the plain 'glass box' look a black background could make the shapes of the rocks stand out and the colours 'pop'.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

It's a chemical substance, and highly toxic. I used to work as a paintball marshal and if you breathed it in you knew about it. The stuff used to kill grass if you spilt it on it so I'm guessing that's a no go. 

A frosted background gets my vote, I think that'd look spot on.


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Been away for a bit, just caught up. Looking brilliant. Hope you don't come down with a nasty case of "actually I like aquatic plants emergent more than submerged" disease like me


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Been away for a bit, just caught up. Looking brilliant. Hope you don't come down with a nasty case of "actually I like aquatic plants emergent more than submerged" disease like me



Cheers T  

I've joined the club (although not in the same league as you);


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Cool, far better than the lame plants you get at IKEA. Ludwigia is a great emergent. T


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Cool, far better than the lame plants you get at IKEA



It was an IKEA plant !  Just 'improved' it with some Florabase, Tropica Aquacare and some Osmocote.  Bit OTT but I had some kicking around.  I want to try some UG next maybe get some 1-2-GROW stuff.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Thought I would put these up as they're all part of my new 'emersed experience'   






The Frankenstein IKEA _Ludwigia_










Went for the big trim, having to hack it and replant back to give the pogo a chance. 





Just thought I'd share some pictures.


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Cool, I've never tried pogostemon. The sun recently has been awesome for just growing things on the windowsill. T


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Finally finished assembling, priming and sanding my new cabinet for the new setup which means next week my step-father-in-law will take it to the auto repair shop for a nice coating of 'ADA grey'   .

The dry start has been running for 5 weeks now, running carbon in the mature filter in my old tank ready to go to suck up excess ammonia.  I think the crypts are going to be a pain for another transition but hopefully they'll survive.  

Great to see my plans coming together!  Had to put a quick snap of the tank and cabinet finally joined in harmony     Got a bit excited   











And no the tank isn't staying next to my bed   

For me its really surreal to see an ADA style setup 'in the flesh' as it were as my only experience is from the internet  .  Well impressed   

Cheers for looking, 
Neil


----------



## JamesM

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Finally finished assembling, priming and sanding my new cabinet for the new setup which means next week my step-father-in-law will take it to the auto repair shop for a nice coating of 'ADA grey'   .
> 
> The dry start has been running for 5 weeks now, running carbon in the mature filter in my old tank ready to go to suck up excess ammonia.  I think the crypts are going to be a pain for another transition but hopefully they'll survive.
> 
> Great to see my plans coming together!  Had to put a quick snap of the tank and cabinet finally joined in harmony     Got a bit excited
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And no the tank isn't staying next to my bed
> 
> For me its really surreal to see an ADA style setup 'in the flesh' as it were as my only experience is from the internet  .  Well impressed
> 
> Cheers for looking,
> Neil


That's beautiful mate, what a superb job on both the cabinet and scape


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> That's beautiful mate, what a superb job on both the cabinet and scape


totally agree   .


----------



## B7fec

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Wow.......Looking great!! you've done a brilliant job on the cabinet and the scape, well done mate!!  
Absolutely class!!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> That's beautiful mate, what a superb job on both the cabinet and scape


Cheers very much mate, I doubt I would have got as good a finish on the cabinet with the hinges and paint without your advice.  Those hinges have worked a treat, I didn't realise they're unsprung though so I may use a magnetic catch or could just leave them as is.  

Found out the whole thing is really top heavy so I think I'll be using one of those IKEA style metal 'L' brackets to fix it to the wall just to be sure!  It could be OK once theres some weight at the bottom from the filter, or maybe use some little feet?



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> ...totally agree   .


Cheers   



			
				B7fec said:
			
		

> Wow.......Looking great!! you've done a brilliant job on the cabinet and the scape, well done mate!!
> Absolutely class!!


Thanks for such great feedback!


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Wow, that is sweet Neil. Perfect finish. I worried about the top heavy thing when I made my far more amateur looking one. However once the tank has water in it and there`s an external in the bottom itÂ´ll be rock solid. Any chance of a cheeky peek inside ?


----------



## LondonDragon

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Looks awesome  the cabinet came out really good and the scape is excellent  well done


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

The scape is really good, Good choice of plants, and they go very well with the rocks. The small beach is also very good..


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Wow, that is sweet Neil. Perfect finish. I worried about the top heavy thing when I made my far more amateur looking one. However once the tank has water in it and there`s an external in the bottom itÂ´ll be rock solid. Any chance of a cheeky peek inside ?


Thanks T   

Thats reassuring about the weight, I think I'll set it up and see how I go.  I forget you made that awesome cabinet in red!  How tall was it?

I'll try and get some more pictures up soon of the inside too.  Just bought some acrylic tubs to screw to the inside for storage as in my last one had shelf which I'll miss.  Nano cabinet = no space   



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looks awesome  the cabinet came out really good and the scape is excellent  well done


Thank you LD, glad you like it    Been following your beast of a journal recently to look for some tips of a shrimpy nature but the scape itself has turned into a real stunner. Great work.



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> The scape is really good, Good choice of plants, and they go very well with the rocks. The small beach is also very good..


Cheers Luis  .  Fingers crossed for when it goes underwater - I hope the plants are up to the job!  I'll be glad to fill it actually as all the sand on the beach area is getting a touch of green so hopefully the snails will clean it up well.  Either that or I'll refresh it with a touch of new sand.  It's good that theres plenty of biofilm for grazing which I was worried I would be lacking from a DSM but theres flecks of GSA, brown algae, green algae and even mould! With my vegetarian crew I bet it'll be shiny clean in a week.  


Sorry about the dodgy snaps guys, when its all up and running I'll try and make a bit more of an effort with the photos I promise


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Hey Neil, mine was 1 m tall + 30 cm of tank on top. Mine certainly was so small inside that it influenced the size of filter I could have! Eheim classic is a good choice in every way IMO, T


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Hey Neil, mine was 1 m tall + 30 cm of tank on top. Mine certainly was so small inside that it influenced the size of filter I could have! Eheim classic is a good choice in every way IMO, T



Thats good to hear that yours was even taller yet still stable    By the looks of it you had solid wood flooring though whilst I got carpet so that could be an issue?

My old cabinet made my filter choice too but I went with the Ecco Pro 130.  If I had to make the same decision again I would have gone for the Classic; don't get me wrong the 130 is silent and hasn't missed a beat yet *touch wood* BUT the self priming handle rarely works as it can't expel the last bit of air so I end up priming it myself.  So basically the extra frills aren't worth the extra money.  Maybe its the 'made in china' that people were saying about them but other then the priming issue the build quality is great...  On the whole not bad for my first external, its quiet, reliable and taught me the mechanics of how to use one.  This sounds like a good excuse to create another nano to use my 130 on and get a Classic for this one


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Some cabinet photos;

Front





Right 





Back





Left





Inside





Corner Detail





Possible ADA grey match Dulux 'Night Jewels 3' (background is the primer) 





Sorry its a bit picture heavy, thought I'd give you the full 360 tour (including your inside cabinet shot T  )  

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## chilled84

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Some cabinet photos;
> 
> Front
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Left
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corner Detail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possible ADA grey match Dulux 'Night Jewels 3' (background is the primer)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry its a bit picture heavy, thought I'd give you the full 360 tour (including your inside cabinet shot T  )
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil



Im loveing these ada knock offs lol there great! Keep it up.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> Im loveing these ada knock offs lol there great! Keep it up.



ADA style for a Â£15 sheet of wood, Â£8 tin of primer and some Â£6 hinges   

I think I'll propose the extra rear filter hole to their product designer


----------



## andyh

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Neil, first class mate looks really good.

Wish i had the will power to sit down design and build one!


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Wish i had the will power to sit down design and build one!



wish i had the skill to do it.i can't even cut wood straight   .


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Neil, this is class mate. you know that from me already.

fancy making me a stand for my 120cm


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Neil, first class mate looks really good.
> 
> Wish i had the will power to sit down design and build one!


Thanks Andy   

I must admit it was testing my patience after I bought some dodgy primer that was taking 48 hours to dry for each of the two coats and then I had to spend 5 hours scraping and sanding the lot back off again because it all went peely and rubbery .  For future reference dont use Dulux WOOD primer on MDF, lesson learnt.  I'm even told that MDF isn't wood (I had a falling out in the DIY shop over it )   



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> wish i had the skill to do it.i can't even cut wood straight   .


My old wood work teacher used to say if you had crazy cabinet making skills you mark up using a knife not a pencil!    

If you fancied having a crack at one you could see if you could get the wood mostly cut somewhere by machine and that way you'd know it was all square?  Homebase do board cutting at Â£1 a cut but make sure its the right dimensions yourself before you take it (learnt that one before)    



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Neil, this is class mate. you know that from me already.
> 
> fancy making me a stand for my 120cm


Thanks for your kind words mate   

I thought your current stand was nice anyways    When I was making this one I saw the plans for the larger tanks and its pretty much the same but with a subframe and was thinking I could have a good go at one given the time and space.  I don't think I'm brave enough to try formica though.  


After I started making this I got a quote from Aquariums Ltd to make one for Â£90, whilst everyone else wanted around Â£200   I think I'm still glad I ended up making it though, pretty cool to make your own gear just wish I could learn how to make tanks!

Heres the original ADA plans for anyone intereted, I hope its hosted OK
http://rapidshare.com/files/406686390/ada_stand.pdf


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Those careless shrimp may have scuppered my plans for their new home  

Bit on an unexpected birth which means I'll really struggle to remove the babies.  Maybe wait a couple of weeks so theyre more visible and then suck them up with an airline?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Update after 7 weeks of growth (sorry about the dodgy framing, I was using a pile of baskets as a 'tripod'  - which reminds me I really need to get one! ) ;







Today I had a bit of a clean up of all the algae on the glass and also had all the sand out and gave it a wash to get rid of the green tinge.  Need to buy a replacement _Anubias nana 'petite'_ for the rock as the desk lamp dried the old one out  .


----------



## magpie

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Still looks stunning, tho', Neil.... 

how much longer are you going to wait before flooding? 

m


----------



## vauxhallmark

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Need to buy a replacement _Anubias nana 'petite'_ for the rock as the desk lamp dried the old one out  .



Why don't you cover the tank with glass or cling film until you add water?

Mark


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				magpie said:
			
		

> Still looks stunning, tho', Neil....
> 
> how much longer are you going to wait before flooding?
> 
> m


Cheers very much   

Basically I'm waiting for my step-father-in-law to get the cabinet sprayed   Hopefully It'll be soon though, I've got itchy green fingers.



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> Why don't you cover the tank with glass or cling film until you add water?
> 
> Mark


It normally does have clingfilm, I just took it off for the photo    I think the problem was that it was right next to a halogen bulb which was kicking out loads of heat.  I'll wait for it be filled now before I buy another one to replace it.  Annoyingly the other one that was planted in the soil has doubled in size!


----------



## vauxhallmark

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> It normally does have clingfilm, I just took it off for the photo    I think the problem was that it was right next to a halogen bulb which was kicking out loads of heat.  I'll wait for it be filled now before I buy another one to replace it.  Annoyingly the other one that was planted in the soil has doubled in size!



Well, if it's doubled in size, why not cut it in half, and use half to replace the one you lost?   

Mark


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> Well, if it's doubled in size, why not cut it in half, and use half to replace the one you lost?
> 
> Mark


I didn't even think of that   I think I need the dunce hat.  

Trouble it I'll be filling it soon so if I do hack it in half it will look ugly for about half a year until it grows again


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Whilst STILL waiting for my cabinet to get sprayed so I amused myself by making some ADA style cat-proofing for when I'm not in the room   (don't worry I'll have it open topped when I'm about to guard against the cat ninja)











It has two holes drilled in the top so I can fix the Superfish Aqua Qube light from either side, and I also cut semi-circular ports to mirror those in the cabinet.

Oh and thought I would show it on my old setup that still sadly ticking over until the 'big move';






May go in for some very think oak trim at the top, what do you think?


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

That's a nice solution to the cat problem Neil. Is that an Ikea lamp on the old set up?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

'tis indeed one of the IKEA lamps, well spotted.  They get everywhere don't they!  Sadly when I picked mine up earlier on in the year it was when they were phasing out the black version so this one is just a roughly sprayed silver one.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*

Almost seems a shame to fill it up doesn't it. More pictures!


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Almost seems a shame to fill it up doesn't it. More pictures!


it does.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' [Planted 25/05/10]*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Almost seems a shame to fill it up doesn't it. More pictures!



Agreed it does look nice as it is, when I made the lid it made me think about the possibilities of a nice vivarium but with a bit of 'modern planted tank thinking' applied to it.  That said I wouldn't know where to start with what creatures to keep in something like that nor what equipment I'd need and wether it could be hidden.

I'll try and get more pictures at some point, unlike a normal filled tank I have to do a mega clean of all the glass inside and out before I take a photo


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Cool. How did you made he lid? Or had it made?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Cool. How did you made he lid? Or had it made?



I just bought some 4mm acrylic off Ebay and made it from that.  All the straight cuts I scored with a stanley blade and snapped like you would cut tiles.  The rounded cuts are done with a coping saw with a fine-toothed blade.  All the bits were then polished (mainly the edges) using 2 grades of wet and dry and then a polishing pad with finishing compound.  If you havn't got a drill with cotton pads then you can do it by hand with a rag and compound but I warn that you will be there for years!  Then it was glued up with Aradyte (although theres probably a specialist glue out there) and I gave it one last polish with the drill.  Basically its a lot of polishing


----------



## ghostsword

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Thanks Neil. I got a dremmel, that can be used to polish. Just didn't know what do glue it with.  

Many thanks.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Cabinet finally sprayed yesterday  

Today I been working hard to get everything up and running so will get some pictures up soon.


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

looking good mate


----------



## Stu Worrall

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

that cabs proper swish mate


----------



## John Starkey

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Wow very professional looking job   ,
regards,
john.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Cheers very much guys    I'm well chuffed with the way it turned out  

I'll try and get some pictures up of it all up and running at some point soon.  It looks great where all the shrimp have taken up residence in all the caves and holes of the rocks, almost like a system of burrows.


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

thats a nice cabinet mate. I'm in the process of ordering a piano lacquer black cabinet for my 120cm...


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> thats a nice cabinet mate. I'm in the process of ordering a piano lacquer black cabinet for my 120cm...



That'll be a mean looking setup   

Was it an Aquariums Ltd one or something a bit different?


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Was it an Aquariums Ltd one or something a bit different?


Aquariums Ltd. I've seen one of theirs before and was blown away by it. Just had to have one. Even the wife approves   

Tanks looking sweet BTW Neil.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Aquariums Ltd. I've seen one of theirs before and was blown away by it. Just had to have one. Even the wife approves
> 
> Tanks looking sweet BTW Neil.



It's a shame that I got put off by a quote from TGM first when I was trying to sort something for this, I had a reply from Aquariums Ltd too late and it would have been a steal    Was a shame as I would have gone with it too and had an ADA style in oak for something a bit more unusual.  

Still, I'm pretty happy with what I've achieved by making one from scratch, just a shame I wasn't up for any oak veneering   

I will try and get some proper photos up now its filled, but sadly I'm lacking some of your serious SLR skills / gear


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Finally here is a full photo update of the tank filled.
















and also a full tank spec;

*Hardware* 

12"x10"x8" opti-white nano
scratch-built MDF ADA style cabinet 
Eheim 2232 Ecco 130 (500lph)
ADA glassware - Do!Aqua Violet Glass Mini outflow, ADA NA Mini V-1 inflow 
Superfish 11Watt CF
Hydor ETH200 external heater
ADA NA Thermometer J-06 (white)

*Flora*
_Anubias nana_ 'petite'
_Cryptocoryne parva_ 
_Cryptocoryne Ã— willisii_, 
_Eleocharis parvula_ - dwarf hairgrass
_Riccardia chamedryfolia_ - coral pellia
_Taxiphyllum sp._ - 'mini' spiky moss

*Fauna*
Stiphodon Goby
Otocinclus 
Crystal Red Shrimp
Porcupine Nerite Snail

*Substrate*
Columbo Flora-Base, ADA Forest Sand Xingu, TGM graded gravels   

*Hardscape*
Ohko Stone, crushed Ohko Stone 'gravel'

Once again I would like to offer a profound thank you to the chaps at PlantedBox.com for the rock that really makes the scape.

As you can see I'm already having some issues but I hope it sorts itself out!
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12443

Cheers for looking!
Neil


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

simply stunning mate   .


----------



## sanj

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Very nice Neil, really like it...just i think i would want a bigger tank.


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

 Straight off the windowsill at the ADA gallery but with your own unique style as well, love it T


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				nelson said:
			
		

> simply stunning mate   .


Cheers mate   



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Very nice Neil, really like it...just i think i would want a bigger tank.


Thank you   

Agreed, I would love a bigger tank and one day hopefully it'll be on the cards.  This size of tank is great for me at the moment as its easy to find a space for and its easy to move if I have to.  Its a bit odd because most people have a nano as a fun side project where as this is my one and only tank  



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Straight off the windowsill at the ADA gallery but with your own unique style as well, love it T


Thanks for such kind words T!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Heres another tank shot and some of the residents;


----------



## johnny70

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

What a beautiful nano, simply stunning!!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				johnny70 said:
			
		

> What a beautiful nano, simply stunning!!



Cheers Johnny


----------



## a1Matt

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

:text-+1:  Stunning.


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Gorgeous thank 

Sam


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

filled in nicely


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Thanks both Matt and Sam for such great feedback   



			
				Jur4ik said:
			
		

> filled in nicely



Thank you, I'm pretty chuffed with the growth especially of the moss.  The dry start was definitely worth it, although it did seem rather bizarre filling an already grown out 'finished' scape


----------



## Graeme Edwards

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Finally here is a full photo update of the tank filled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and also a full tank spec;
> 
> *Hardware*
> 
> 12"x10"x8" opti-white nano
> scratch-built MDF ADA style cabinet
> Eheim 2232 Ecco 130 (500lph)
> ADA glassware - Do!Aqua Violet Glass Mini outflow, ADA NA Mini V-1 inflow
> Superfish 11Watt CF
> Hydor ETH200 external heater
> ADA NA Thermometer J-06 (white)
> 
> *Flora*
> _Anubias nana_ 'petite'
> _Cryptocoryne parva_
> _Cryptocoryne Ã— willisii_,
> _Eleocharis parvula_ - dwarf hairgrass
> _Riccardia chamedryfolia_ - coral pellia
> _Taxiphyllum sp._ - 'mini' spiky moss
> 
> *Fauna*
> Stiphodon Goby
> Otocinclus
> Crystal Red Shrimp
> Porcupine Nerite Snail
> 
> *Substrate*
> Columbo Flora-Base, Forest Sand Xingu, TGM graded gravels
> 
> *Hardscape*
> Ohko Stone, crushed Ohko Stone 'gravel'
> 
> Once again I would like to offer a profound thank you to the chaps at PlantedBox.com for the rock that really makes the scape.
> 
> As you can see I'm already having some issues but I hope it sorts itself out!
> http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12443
> 
> Cheers for looking!
> Neil



Well done Neil, you have done a great job there. A real gem of a nano. The cheep T5 doesnt look out of place amongst the ADA and opti white gear.
Attention to detail has been your success here and its more so a skill when working on nano's.

Great stuff.

P.S Have we met before?


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Thank you, I'm pretty chuffed with the growth especially of the moss.  The dry start was definitely worth it, although it did seem rather bizarre filling an already grown out 'finished' scape



Some green between the main and the middle rocks might improve the look, maybe you just should let it go and watch how it will become wild


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Graeme Edwards said:
			
		

> Well done Neil, you have done a great job there. A real gem of a nano. The cheep T5 doesnt look out of place amongst the ADA and opti white gear.
> Attention to detail has been your success here and its more so a skill when working on nano's.
> 
> Great stuff.
> 
> P.S Have we met before?



Thank you very much indeed!  

Thats great to hear that the lighting doesn't look out of place.  My issue was finding something that would tick all the boxes - I wanted something both minimal and lower powered which didn't me leave many options.  The ADA Solar Mini would be my ideal aesthetically BUT the massive power was a big no no with no CO2 injection.  Fortunately the Superfish light came in a silver/grey finish, is relatively un-intrusive, and comes is a variety of wattage.   

My aim was to get the ADA 'look' and finish but on a budget.  I think just spending a little extra time and effort on the finish has really paid off.  I would love to apply the same ideas to a bigger tank but space is a premium for me at the moment.   

I'm afraid we havn't met, my whole experience of planted tanks is through the interwebs    I would love to meet the UKAPS greats one day though!



			
				Jur4ik said:
			
		

> Some green between the main and the middle rocks might improve the look, maybe you just should let it go and watch how it will become wild



I may just try moving the pellia stones for some green between the stones, cheers


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Thought I would get a few more pictures in.

This is the view from my bed




This is my _Stiphodon_ Goby and what a lovely fish he is.  I really like the unusual snake skin pattern and red fins, almost looks like a chinese dragon.  He's already made himself at home and dug himself 2 burrows on either side of the big rock.  








one of his perches on the crook of the inlet




Next on my list is to look at some emergent planting on the rock.

Cheers for looking,
Neil


----------



## Ian Holdich

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

love the Goby!

the tank looks great as well!


----------



## whatarogue

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Amazing tank. 

I'm looking to mimic your set up, but would only have the space for it in my bedroom. 
Is it relativity quiet?

Keep the updates coming.

Sean


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> love the Goby!
> 
> the tank looks great as well!



Thank you    He's my favourite fish at the moment.  Really interesting to watch.  



			
				whatarogue said:
			
		

> Amazing tank.
> 
> I'm looking to mimic your set up, but would only have the space for it in my bedroom.
> Is it relativity quiet?
> 
> Keep the updates coming.
> 
> Sean


Honoured by your first post, thank you   

Mines in the bedroom too.  Its that quiet normally that occasionally I panic that I havn't turned the filter back on    I have to check that the plants are swaying to see.  I have to open the cabinet doors to notice any sound in the day.  In the dead of night with no other sound, and if you concentrate on it you can hear a slight hum of the motor and whir of the impeller but not enough to keep you up. 

If you do go in for a similar setup it may be worth taking a look at the Eheim Classic 2211 (which is only available from Germany http://www.aquaristic.net/shop.php/sid/ ... param/2211 ) as its cheaper, has more suitable flow, and has the same, if not better, build quality.  Although the extra media volume on the Ecco 130 is good, the 'self priming' rarely works on mine so not really worth the extra money.  If you go for the Classic though you'll need to buy the extra taps for it to make it usable and you may even have to buy the media (but this means you can chose what you want).

Hope this is helpful,
Neil


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

The 2211's are supposedly made in china, I'd recommend the 2213 over the 2211.


----------



## whatarogue

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Ahh that's great news.

I see you studied Design. 
I'm in my final year of an Art & Design course, 
I'd love to incorporate a nano tank in my degree show. I don't know how i'd justify it, maybe I could grow/design a typeface using H.C.   




			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> The 2211's are supposedly made in china, I'd recommend the 2213 over the 2211.



Thanks Garuf, the 2213 seems perfect.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Haha that sounds like my course all over - one of my mates made a typeface out of Spam and someone else made one from dog poo    Check out 'moss graffiti', that'll be up your street if you grow type from HC.  I had to make a supplement for a newspaper for one of my projects and I did mine on the Nature Aquarium thing so there you go!  



			
				whatarogue said:
			
		

> Garuf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 2211's are supposedly made in china, I'd recommend the 2213 over the 2211.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Garuf, the 2213 seems perfect.
Click to expand...


Garuf have you had experience of it being rubbish?

I think Garuf is a bit unfair dismissing the 2211 if it is just a case of it being made in China.  The manufacturing heart of the world is in China, if the quality control is there then I'm sure it isn't an issue.  Look at Apple products for example.  I'm sure Eheim would have good quality control with their reputation.  My Ecco 130 is meant to be made in China and its solid.  My Macbook is made in China and it is also solid.


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Personally no, but when ever you read of a classic filter dying it's always the 2211's, the quality control seems lax compared to on the other classics which are all german made. Most people stateside will inform people to air on the side of caution with the chinese ehiems as quality control seems to be an issue. 

Also, from a economics point of veiw the cheapest I can find a 2211 is for just Â£5 less than the 2213, I'd rather have the larger filter and be able to use inline heaters and readily available glassware, plus the 400lph quoted flow is much more suite to tanks around this size and the larger media capacity is a blessing.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Also, from a economics point of veiw the cheapest I can find a 2211 is for just Â£5 less than the 2213, I'd rather have the larger filter and be able to use inline heaters and readily available glassware, plus the 400lph quoted flow is much more suite to tanks around this size and the larger media capacity is a blessing.



I didn't realise the 2213 was only an extra fiver.  In which case I agree then that the 2213 is probably the better filter.  You can always turn the flow down if you get the taps too.  I see a lot of people with the ADA Mini-M (which is a similar size) use the 2213.


----------



## Gill

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

OMG this is simply breathtaking and the goby is the perfect choice. he suits the scape perfectly as a little chinese dragon.


----------



## Ray

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Just discovered this thread and I love it - choc full of ideas and new stuff.  Well done Neil - its a beautiful tank, as Graham says, the attention to detail is flabbergasting! 

 Also good job on the stand - having made my own a couple of years ago I know its not as easy as you'd think.  Good idea getting it professionally sprayed - doing that part with Aerosol nearly drove me insane (1 side at a time, wait 12 hours to dry, sand, apply second coat...).

What do you use to fix the egg crate to the rocks?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Gill said:
			
		

> OMG this is simply breathtaking and the goby is the perfect choice. he suits the scape perfectly as a little chinese dragon.



Thank for your kind words Gill   

I love the Goby, I think he's made himself at home now with his various burrows and perches.  He even feeds off the moss and they're meant to normally feed off rocks so thats great to see.  It's a shame I don't have a bigger setup or I would have got him a mate. 



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Just discovered this thread and I love it - choc full of ideas and new stuff.  Well done Neil - its a beautiful tank, as Graham says, the attention to detail is flabbergasting!
> 
> Also good job on the stand - having made my own a couple of years ago I know its not as easy as you'd think.  Good idea getting it professionally sprayed - doing that part with Aerosol nearly drove me insane (1 side at a time, wait 12 hours to dry, sand, apply second coat...).
> 
> What do you use to fix the egg crate to the rocks?



Thank you very much Ray!  

I tried to get all the detail in as its my only tank, and being a nano that doesn't give you much space to create interest.  I think being my main tank instead of a bit of fun on the side made me think differently.

I've been closely following your new journal as it looks like its going to be a stunner!  Looks more original in its stone shape and placement then a typical Amano-gumi, to me it seems more like an ancient stone circle like the one at Avebury.  I also loved your old tank, those crypts must have taken so much patience.  

As for spraying the stand I thought I would take advantage of the skills of people around me while the opportunity was there    I compromised with him too by putting all the effort into priming and sanding to save him a job.  Think I paid just Â£25 for the paint   

The rock was fixed to the eggcrate with a few big blobs of Milliput like some reef keepers use.  It comes in different colours so the terracotta stuff is preferable incase you can ever see any of the joins (although its buried in mine)


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Another update for you.  The BGA (which Garuf helpfully ID'ed) has mostly gone in its black form but I keep getting the odd translucent bit here and there.  I may just go in for a black out to get rid of it once and for all, although I'm not sure as to how badly that will affect the plants?

I've also started to get a tiny bit of surface scum which I know is a sign theres an imbalance somewhere so I'll keep an eye on it and see if it clears up after the tanks stabilised, if not I'll buy the 9watt version of the light I have instead.   


Yet more photos to bombard you with -

Heres one for you cupboard lovers    (yes I know thats a test kit in there but I only use the KH/GH, PH, and nitrate honest! And yes its a sad admission that I have a tidy cupboard BUT space is a premium in the room   )




Interestingly only one or two leaves of the Crypt Nevillii have changed so far into their submerged form with a brown tiger stripe;




The Coral Pellia is looking alright which is good, although is painfully slow growing!





Cheers for looking   
Neil


----------



## GreenNeedle

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Got to love that Goby  where did you get it.  What is it compatible with and any no nos?

I would've veneered the cabinet myself but then I am addicted to wood finishes   Top quality workmanship matey and it suits the tank, scape and surroundings perfectly.

With the Crypt I wouldn't expect the whole plant to get the 'striping' too quickly.  Most of the Crypts are like this.  Crypt Wendtii brown for example will be a green for it's 'infancy' but a couple of months after you are looking at a reflective purple/maroon/brown/green plant.  All my other Crypts did the same, slowly transformed into the waxy leaved babies they are now. lol

Keep it up, superb little setup there.

AC


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Got to love that Goby  where did you get it.  What is it compatible with and any no nos?
> 
> I would've veneered it myself but then I am addicted to wood finishes   Top quality workmanship matey and it suits the tank, scape and surroundings perfectly.
> 
> With the Crypt I wouldn't expect the whole plant to get the 'striping' too quickly.  Most of the Crypts are like this.  Crypt Wendtii brown for example will be a green for it's 'infancy' but a couple of months after you are looking at a reflective purple/maroon/brown/green plant.  All my other Crypts did the same, slowly transformed into the waxy leaved babies they are now. lol
> 
> Keep it up, superb little setup there.
> 
> AC



Thanks mate  

I picked up the Goby at my local Maidenhead branch in Dummer.  I was after one for ages after I saw the pictures of them in Andy's kitchen tank and reading a PFK article on them not so far back.  Also I'm a big fan of David Attenborough's 'Life' series and they look very much like some of the gobies featured in that.  I did some research before out of curiosity so it worked out well that they had some just by luck in the shop.  When I spotted them originally I picked out one of the neon blue coloured ones but the bloke accidentally netted a red one instead, which wasn't really a problem as hes still a nice looking fish.    

As far as care goes they like lots of rock for grazing, fast flowing water and also a substrate where they can dig a burrow (preferably sand).  I'm pushing it with tank size a little (the minimum PFK recommend was a 12" x 12" footprint whilst mine is 12" x 10") but they normally only have a few spots in the tank where they hang around and don't run far from their burrow.  My tank also had a low bioload, an oversized external and a high plant mass too so I think it'll be OK.  They're purely vegetarian so won't hassle baby shrimp.  I've seen him have a peck at algae wafers but I'm also trying to grow him some algae on pebbles to put (crazy I know!) As far as tank mates go I'm not too sure as I only keep him with an Otto some shrimp and a couple of snails.  Heres a link for you with some more info;
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8128

I agree the stand would have looked good in oak veneer wouldn't it  

The Crypts in this tank are the first I've ever tried, but they're fascinating plants.

Thanks again,
Neil


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Time for another update.

All the plants now appear to be healthier, greener and algae free.  I'm happy the moss in particular has lost its traces of BGA and is looking tidier.  I gave it some TLC by giving it a prune, tying back down any that hadn't anchored properly and also keeping it clean and free of detritus/algae by 'blowing' it with a pipette every now and then.  My pipette 'technique' is my tip of the day  

Have also been dosing 0.1mls of Easy Carbo and double TPN+ at 0.4mls on the water change which has been every other day, seems to have done the trick.    Also pruned back the hairgrass in the foreground.  I've got a 9 watt lamp coming to replace the 11 watt and will then slowly cut back on both the liquid carbon and water changes until I reach low-tech.

Heres a full tank shot






I hope to improve my photos by using one of the AquaQube lamps as a back light, getting a tripod and removing the lily's but you get the idea.  The 'ADA hair dryer' works well though   



Gravel Detail





Natural daylighting   





My girlfriends kitten loves moss   





Happy cat





The Coral Pellia is doing a lot better now and looks great!





The crypts have started going mad






Cheers for looking,
Neil


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*

Lovely tank and scape, just gorgeous.

Sam


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono'*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Lovely tank and scape, just gorgeous.
> 
> Sam



Thank you very much for your kind words mate


----------



## R1ch13

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Ive not been on the forum for literally a couple of years, dart frog hobby took over 

And this has easily been my favourite "catch up" thread.

Really stunning tank mate.

Brilliant work.

Richie


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				R1ch13 said:
			
		

> Ive not been on the forum for literally a couple of years, dart frog hobby took over
> 
> And this has easily been my favourite "catch up" thread.
> 
> Really stunning tank mate.
> 
> Brilliant work.
> 
> Richie



Cheers very much    

When I was dry-starting this setup I looked at it and thought having a go at a viv for dart frogs could look great!  Did you end up using your 'planted tank' knowledge on the way?

Thanks again,
Neil


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Just got my 9 Watt in the post   Thanks Plantedbox

Call me odd but I didn't like the 'stumpyness' of the 9watt unit so this is what I did;













*Tada!*  

So in my journal if I go saying "I have a 9 watt" light I really do, its just pretending to be the 11watt! 

I can't take credit for this idea, it was James M who made this discovery.  Cheers mate


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Heres another shot a little bit better with a back light and the glassware removed.





Definitely not ADA standard   but I'm feeling happier with the result though from a compact  .  Next on the list is a tripod!


----------



## PM

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Looking great!   

Is that cryptocorene parva? And xmas moss?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				PM said:
			
		

> Looking great!
> 
> Is that cryptocorene parva? And xmas moss?



Cheers mate!

Your right, at the back its a combination between crypt parva and crypt nevillii.  The moss though is actually 'mini' spiky moss which is a bit more unusual.



			
				PM said:
			
		

> Also what's that green looking fish, not the otto, is it a Kilifish? Don't they jump?



The other fish that isn't the otto is a _Stiphodon_ 'Red' Goby.  Really nice fish!  They don't jump at all, in actual fact they do the opposite and go the other way; they dig!  Theres some info I wrote up right at the bottom of this page if you were interested;
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10577&start=170


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Yeh, I have to agree, its a lovely tank


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

fantastic nano   .

nothing wrong with the pics   .


----------



## TBRO

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Great stuff Neil, are you using just eazy carb? previously I've found that the hairgrass doesn't do well without the injected CO2, will be intersted to see how it goes. Cute cat!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Thank you guys for all the nice comments   



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> are you using just eazy carb? previously I've found that the hairgrass doesn't do well without the injected CO2, will be intersted to see how it goes.



I'm just using EC atm, got it down to standard recommended dosing of 0.1mls now the algae has gone, although the plan is to cut that down altogether as the coral pellia isn't meant to be a fan.  I think it'd be soul destroying to see such gold dust die miserably   , surprisingly it hasn't reacted so far and is actually doing better!  So far its the nitrates that I've been struggling with, a combo of using tap water containing surprisingly little and mainly RO mix was the problem.  Have been double dosing on the TPN+ to compensate for now and also feeding livestock more heavily (I normally feed every other day so increased this to everyday).

Now I've got hold of the 9watt lamp I'll slow down on the water changes and dosing and see what happens.  The roots should be good as there is still Osmocote lurking in there somewhere.   



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> Cute cat!


I wouldn't trust that innocent face    Shes a terror who isn't scared of water.


----------



## Jur4ik

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

hi,
I wonder if there is a big difference in the growth rate under the 11watt and 9 watt lamp.
Looking good


----------



## viktorlantos

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

lovely tank mate. no worry on the tripod this already cool.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				Jur4ik said:
			
		

> hi,
> I wonder if there is a big difference in the growth rate under the 11watt and 9 watt lamp.
> Looking good



Thank you   

I'm curious as to how fast it'll grow too.  Mind you this tank has been a real slow grower even when it was emersed, especially the moss and pellia.  Recently though the crypts have taken off and got a lot bigger and converted to their submerged form and the moss has sent out sporophytes which is interesting.  



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> lovely tank mate. no worry on the tripod this already cool.


Thanks very much Viktor.  Real nice comment from someone who produces such world class scapes! 

Maybe I'll say no to a tripod and buy some more ADA treats or plants instead?


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Did I read right?....pictures from a compact? You've got to be joking mate   

These images are better than a few who have DSLR's. forget the tripod, as my guess is, your compact is giving you fast enough shutter speeds to go without a tripod....probably.

I've mentioned before, that I love the scape Neil. It's class, no less.


----------



## Dan Walter

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Fantastic work, quite inspiring in fact!  

Neil, where did you buy your goby from? I noticed that you are local (ish) to me but havent seen goby's in ANY shop in the area..  

Cheers

Dan


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> Did I read right?....pictures from a compact? You've got to be joking mate
> 
> These images are better than a few who have DSLR's. forget the tripod, as my guess is, your compact is giving you fast enough shutter speeds to go without a tripod....probably.
> 
> I've mentioned before, that I love the scape Neil. It's class, no less.



Thanks very much mate   

The thing I hate about the camera is just the noise and lack of details.  I'm guessing it makes sense that a COMPACT camera has a COMPACT lense hence the lack in clarity so thats the price you pay.  On this one I don't have control over the shutter speed but I do have control over the ISO so I dropped it down to 100 for those last few shots.

My uni were doing a deal to get a 50D with a lense, bag and tripod for Â£300 but I chose to get a Macbook Pro for Â£370 instead   



			
				Dan Walter said:
			
		

> Fantastic work, quite inspiring in fact!
> 
> Neil, where did you buy your goby from? I noticed that you are local (ish) to me but havent seen goby's in ANY shop in the area..   I missed out!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dan



Cheers Dan   

My goby is from the Maidenhead Aquatics thats just down the road from Basingstoke.  They just had some in by chance.  You could give Tropical Fish Finder a go and chase it up with a phone call to make sure?  Just type 'stiphodon' in the search bar and you may find somewhere near to you;
http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/default.asp


----------



## johnny70

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Love it, this tank just gets better and better!


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				johnny70 said:
			
		

> Love it, this tank just gets better and better!



Thank you   

Just thought I would bombard you all with some more pictures   

Anyone else have problems with amphibious Nerites?  Twice recently my girlfriends discovered them on the carpet still going strong.  I think they survive with a hatch they can pull across to keep in moisture.





The moss is starting to form really nice 'cushions'








Also started to notice the moss producing sporophytes like terrestrial moss





fields of green





This angle just makes the scale look crazy, looks like a mountain!





Sorry to inflict more.  too many updates in the last few days   

Cheers again for looking,
Neil


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

good to see the moss thingys.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> good to see the moss thingys.
> 
> here's some terestial ones neil.



Thats the ones!  Great shot too.  I just remembered you took some moss macros a while back, I'll go trawling for them   

I havn't seen them on submerged aquatic moss before.  I'm confused as to their function and how they work?  They look good mixed in with the hairgrass though.


----------



## Mark Evans

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Thats the ones! Great shot too. I just remembered you took some moss macros a while back, I'll go trawling for them



no worries mate.i've took down the image...dont want to clog your thread up mate.


----------



## Nelson

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				NeilW said:
			
		

> Just thought I would bombard you all with some more pictures
> 
> Neil


the more pics the better    .


----------



## chilled84

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Its looking so smart! Impressive growth already, And clean! Well done!


----------



## andyh

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Neil

Looks great mate!

Are your pruning your moss or just letting it do its own thing?

I only ask as the dense/compact growth is impressive!

Cheers

Andyh


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Sorrry for the slow replies people, I've been away from home.



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> no worries mate.i've took down the image...dont want to clog your thread up mate.


Clog it as much as you want mate, its all good    Thats why I like the journals is the ideas and input



			
				chilled84 said:
			
		

> Its looking so smart! Impressive growth already, And clean! Well done!


thanks very much indeed   



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Neil
> 
> Looks great mate!
> 
> Are your pruning your moss or just letting it do its own thing?
> 
> I only ask as the dense/compact growth is impressive!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Andyh


Cheers mate   

TBH the areas that look the best where they've formed 'cushions' and look so compact have grown on their own accord, the worst bits are where I've interfered and had to cut it back from algae or reattach it where it didn't take a proper hold from dry-start.  I think the 'mini' variety of moss has made it grow that way.  I didn't expect it to look this good though, exactly what I was after, well chuffed


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Neil, I don't know if you're intested but the LED's from Ikea that Oliver knott used on his low tech are now 1/3rd off. The tank still looks amazing. I wish it were mine.


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Neil, I don't know if you're intested but the LED's from Ikea that Oliver knott used on his low tech are now 1/3rd off. The tank still looks amazing. I wish it were mine.


Any linkety links my friend?  Thanks again too!


----------



## Garuf

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/20128738
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/115464771


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

Cheers!


----------



## R1ch13

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



> Cheers very much
> 
> When I was dry-starting this setup I looked at it and thought having a go at a viv for dart frogs could look great!  Did you end up using your 'planted tank' knowledge on the way?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Neil



Hiya bud.

I guess in some ways having some knowledge in the planted tank field (as limited as it is ) did help me in the vivarium hobby.

There are so many Aquarium plants which make brilliant Vivarium subjects, such as Crypts, all the Moss's, Riccia, Anubias etc so its pretty sweet to know a little about them.

You should give it a bash mate, its really rewarding plus Dart's are such amazing little jewels.

Good luck

Richie


----------



## Jase

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

The tank looks great - that moss looks fantastic  8) 

I still feel that the lines of the main stone aren't right though, i think it needs rotating anti clockwise to tie in with the smaller one at the front or perhaps a plant or some moss between the two stones to break the lines


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				R1ch13 said:
			
		

> You should give it a bash mate, its really rewarding plus Dart's are such amazing little jewels.



I think I'm going to go in for more emersed stuff approached in an experiential way similar to Tbro.  I'm also going to try to get hold of one of the Do!Aqua plant glasses hopefully.  Maybe one day when I have the space I'll go for the full on viv!   



			
				Jase said:
			
		

> The tank looks great - that moss looks fantastic  8)
> 
> I still feel that the lines of the main stone aren't right though, i think it needs rotating anti clockwise to tie in with the smaller one at the front or perhaps a plant or some moss between the two stones to break the lines



Thanks Jase   

I think I'll try and get hold of some more Coral Pellia to break it up and also climb the base of the main rock.

*Bit of a small update;*

Yesterday I saw my first pregnant CRS since moving them to this tank    I think now all the parameters have settled down and I've stopped dosing EC may have helped.  I also upped the PH from 6.5 to a more sustainable 7 in the last week.   

On the whole I'm well chuffed to have my first algae-free full on Nature Aquarium.  Seems daft that I can keep looking at the same glass box with an area slightly bigger then an A4 sheet of paper again and again and not be bored   

Due to all the fish and inverts being 'aufwuchs' feeders I now have the problem (?!) of a spotless tank.  As proposed in this post http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12485 I have purposely been trying ( yes, TRYING  ) to grow algae on stones to feed to the various vegetarian diners.  I originally failed miserably so I just cheekily robbed some pre-'algaed' stones from my dads tank.  I couldn't even grow algae when I wanted to!  The stones that I stole from my dad I now keep in a tupperware container along with any dying crypt cuttings and TPN+ to create an algae soup  .  I started to introduce a stone to the tank at meal times and remove it after a few hours to regain its algal film.  I've also started adding Hayashi baby shrimp food that comes in a powdered form that spreads around the tank by the flow which makes for good browsing for the goby and adult CRS  

The otto and goby tucking in




Also noticed the other day that when viewed from above a small cutting of coral pellia must have attached itself and grown amongst the moss (see bottom left)




Thanks for looking everyone   
Neil


----------



## Krishs Bettas

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

I need the same thing so my stiphodons and ottos are the stiphodons eating it?


----------



## NeilW

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*



			
				Krish's Bettas said:
			
		

> I need the same thing so my stiphodons and ottos are the stiphodons eating it?



The goby does like the algae covered stones, but I also found he likes just standard algae wafers and the baby shrimp powder.  I mainly did the stones for the Nerites who won't touch any other foods I've offered.


----------



## Krishs Bettas

*Re: NeilW's 30cm nano - 'Mono' (updated 12/8)*

I feed mine wafers too i also sometimes feed them some high protein food thats sinks to help them grow abit.


----------



## NeilW

Thought this was due an update...

The tanks taken a bit of a pounding since hacking back the mini moss hard to take cuttings.  Discovered some of the edges of the carpet were lifting from not taking root properly so had to do some repairs.  Also had an outbreak of staghorn which I'm putting down to either a dirty filter, stopping dosing EC or lack of flow from the massive rock.  In response I cleaned the filter, upped the flow with the tap, started dosing liquid carbon at recommended amount and manual removal.  Theres nothing to look at in the photos though where I've pulled or cut out ever strand to be seen.  

This tank is causing much head scratching... I'm in a bit of a catch 22 where I want to go low-tech but as soon as I stop dosing liquid carbon I get algae from where the CO2 level drops off and then I'm forced into spot dosing the carbon and water changes to fix it.  I need to figure out a way of SLOWLY reducing the input.  I don't think the lighting is OTT... maybe I need some faster growing stems right at the back?

Removed the Riccardia for now whilst I'm dosing the liquid carbon 





The windowsill lineup from left to right; Riccardia chamedryfolia, collection of 'Mini' Spiky Moss cuttings, and some Xmas Moss waiting for a purpose in possibly a wabi kusa





Some of the repair work





Tank shot





I also got some tasty ADA gear on its way in the form of the Spring Washer S and Superge to fix those dirrrty pipes, Phyton Git from Hong Kong as a bit of a test and a Do!Aqua Oval 17 plant glass.

Cheers for looking,
Neil


----------



## viktorlantos

The tank looks awesome! love that mossy effect with the dragon stone.
congrat to the new gears. we do use spring w. and superge to clean our glass pipes, good stuff. very easy to handle.


----------



## NeilW

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> The tank looks awesome! love that mossy effect with the dragon stone.
> congrat to the new gears. we do use spring w. and superge to clean our glass pipes, good stuff. very easy to handle.



Thanks very much Viktor   

I saw the spring washers on the ADA website months ago and thought what a good idea they were so it worked out well that TGM imported some in.


----------



## Garuf

Eheim and hagen both do them, I've got both and have to say the hagen one is brilliant.


----------



## sanj

Hagen daz.... Mmmmm


----------



## NeilW

Garuf said:
			
		

> Eheim and hagen both do them, I've got both and have to say the hagen one is brilliant.



I have one of the Eheim 'universal' ones that are like a bottle brush on the end of a length of nylon, but although they're good for tubing they're rubbish for lilys as they don't go round the curve well and like to scratch the glass with the sharp end.  Cant say I saw the Hagen one though     Ah well... if the ADA one is the Rolls Royce of the brush world and makes a tedious job quick and easy then I don't mind paying.  I do enjoy most tank-related stuff even the grubby bits but I can say that cleaning glassware isn't on that list. 



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Hagen daz.... Mmmmm


   oh dear...


----------



## nayr88

looking good Neil. 

the moss is becoming very overpowering i feel, im destracted from the rest of the tank, the height was ideal on page 16,obviously it wasnt as 'full' then but the height then with the fullness it has now if you get me would look great. sorry to be picky but at the end of the day i could only dream of creating such a tank haha.

also that goby is amazing ! where did you get it? im sure youve been asked before but how does he/she get on with the shrimp??

EDIT: it might not be the moss, it may be the space behind the rock wich is yet to fill in that is making the balance 'off'


----------



## NeilW

nayr88 said:
			
		

> looking good Neil.
> 
> the moss is becoming very overpowering i feel, im destracted from the rest of the tank, the height was ideal on page 16,obviously it wasnt as 'full' then but the height then with the fullness it has now if you get me would look great. sorry to be picky but at the end of the day i could only dream of creating such a tank haha.
> 
> also that goby is amazing ! where did you get it? im sure youve been asked before but how does he/she get on with the shrimp??
> 
> EDIT: it might not be the moss, it may be the space behind the rock wich is yet to fill in that is making the balance 'off'



Cheers for the critique mate   

I agree the moss is rather thick, I still need to thin it out but my main aim at the moment is trying to stabilise the tank without algae or scum.  At a bit of a loose end really    I think once its fixed I can take a closer look at some of the details.  When I get round to it I think the solution would be to cut the moss away from the front glass as thats whats making it feel a bit claustrophobic.

The goby I picked up from my local MA in Basingstoke, there should be some more info on him a few pages back.  He doesn't bother the shrimp except when feeding he's very territorial, chasing any shrimp or the otto if they come near.  Hes also got a cave and a perch that he stands guard on.  The shrimp have become more nervous around him and wait for him to go back to his cave to come out mostly so they take it in shifts to have a look about.  Interesting watching the pecking order and how they all interact though.


----------



## NeilW

Moby the goby in his cave.  I find it fascinating how he's made a proper burrow system with several entrances all in the same rock and can just disappear for hours.  He sulked in his 'man cave' all day one day last week, a true inspiration


----------



## Krishs Bettas

Nice, i wish my stiphodon make caves   lol


----------



## NeilW

Krish's Bettas said:
			
		

> Nice, i wish my stiphodon make caves   lol


He took a while to settle, but after that he found his favourite perching spots and caves and now mainly sticks around those unless finding food.


----------



## andyh

My stiphidon Gobies were forever digging tunnels under rocks, i loved how they used to balance/stop on top of anything

my fav pic of one of mine:


----------



## NeilW

Great shot Andy, those fish certainly have character!  That shot is typical how they perch on their front fins like arms - you can see how mudskippers evolved to walk on land.  I find it really bizarre how they can properly bend at the neck like a cobra or something rather then a fish   

Have you still got them in your new tank?


----------



## andyh

NeilW said:
			
		

> Have you still got them in your new tank?



No dont have any at the moment but i am considering setting up a tank for them at some point soon. Mine have a new home, a friends tank


----------



## NeilW

Some updates for you;

Here is some ADA happiness that came through the post    I think they saw me coming with the 'Superge' cleaner though, basically its bleach in an aftershave bottle    The spring washer is really cool though, recommended.  Looking forward to planting up that plant glass, not sure wether to just do a standard wabi or something a bit different.





I have learnt some hard lessons in the Way of the Moss; be more ruthless when pruning or the bottom layers die off and lift from underneath.  This is the repair work.  I now feel nearer mossy enlightenment. 





Shrimp babies! My first lot in this tank.  The gradings gone out the window since when I bought some cheapo ones at MA a few months back   





Added the Riccardia back into the tank after deciding its not that fussy about the liquid carbon.   I need to get a few more stones worth though to help fill that space at the front.






And finally some tank shots.  I don't think its so bad considering the battering its had in the last few weeks from moss self destruction, algal attack and switching back to liquid carbon. 










(sorry about the bizarre changes in white balance I remembered to try the 'aquarium' setting half way through and it seems to work well with this lighting, the greens are a lot nearer)

Cheers for looking,
Neil


----------



## Tom

Which size spring washer did you get? I need one for my 9mm outflow - will it squeeze in that small and round the bends? I'll be picking up an Oval 17 tomorrow all being well too, so I'm interested to see what you do with yours. I'm struggling to see how to grow stems emersed though, as everything I've tried seems to dry out within a day!

Tom


----------



## NeilW

Tom said:
			
		

> Which size spring washer did you get? I need one for my 9mm outflow - will it squeeze in that small and round the bends?


I got the 'S' version, so the small one.  That outflow on mine is actually a 9mm too so it does fit but its a bit of a squeeze and its best to clean from one side and then the other instead of forcing it all the way round the full bend.



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> I'll be picking up an Oval 17 tomorrow all being well too, so I'm interested to see what you do with yours. I'm struggling to see how to grow stems emersed though, as everything I've tried seems to dry out within a day!


With your stems try and cling film the top and then slowly increase the opening over a couple of weeks to let the stems 'harden off' to the reduced humidity.  Either that or you could try getting hold of them already in emersed form.

I may even do like a mini tank with mine although I'm not a fan of round tanks so wouldn't know where to start 'scaping it  and I'd be stuck on a filter that could work.  Just an idea anyways.


----------



## Tom

NeilW said:
			
		

> I may even do like a mini tank with mine although I'm not a fan of round tanks so wouldn't know where to start 'scaping it  and I'd be stuck on a filter that could work.  Just an idea anyways.



What would it work out at size-wise...2 liters? Amano didn't filter his tiny tanks in Book 2, and just did large-ish water changes.

Yeah I can always cling film the top like you say - I was wondering how ADA plant theirs and keep them from drying up. Maybe they keep them in a high humidity setup for a while?

Tom


----------



## NeilW

Tom said:
			
		

> What would it work out at size-wise...2 liters? Amano didn't filter his tiny tanks in Book 2, and just did large-ish water changes.
> 
> Yeah I can always cling film the top like you say - I was wondering how ADA plant theirs and keep them from drying up. Maybe they keep them in a high humidity setup for a while?
> 
> Tom



Just roughly measured - its between 3litres to 3 1/2 depending on where you want to fill it to.  I could get away with just doing big water changes bit that sounds like too much effort    The wabi-kusa style though I would only have to top up evaporation

I think ADA would grow out their wabi-kusa balls in a specialised setup beforehand as they actually sell them on their own pre-grown as a product in Japan.  At the gallery they could use one of their Do!Aqua Waterfall type tanks to grow them out first too, I would love one of those bad boys


----------



## nayr88

theres something that slaps a smile on your face when you open a parcel and see the ADA symbol  haha

Do you just clean the inflow/return to filter glass with the 'fancy' bleach haha? or is it wide enough for the spring washer to make it around the bend?

Im so jealous  of those pre-grown wabi balls, obviously it takes away the part of your own design BUT would still be a cool idea, i wonder if TGM will order the ADA wabi kusa balls (un-planted) seen as they are getting in these 'tanks' . What light will you be using?


----------



## NeilW

nayr88 said:
			
		

> theres something that slaps a smile on your face when you open a parcel and see the ADA symbol  haha


  



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Do you just clean the inflow/return to filter glass with the 'fancy' bleach haha? or is it wide enough for the spring washer to make it around the bend?


The spring washer goes all the way round the inlet as its the 12mm one.  The worst bit to get clean was the rounded end so I used a combination of a squirt of undiluted 'fancy bleach' and spinning the spring washer round to agitate it. 



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Im so jealous  of those pre-grown wabi balls, obviously it takes away the part of your own design BUT would still be a cool idea, i wonder if TGM will order the ADA wabi kusa balls (un-planted) seen as they are getting in these 'tanks' .


My guess is they wouldn't be able to do it as they do their orders in shipping containers so would take too long for the plants to survive.  I don't think you can get the balls unplanted either.  They don't look too hard to make anyways so its no biggy not getting the real McCoy.    



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> What light will you be using?


I think I'll be using natural light from the window or I'll buy a desk light thing or I''ll make something.  I can't justify Â£240 on a branch light


----------



## nayr88

yeah i guess, when you go about making yours please do a step by step 

surely that light doesnt cost anywere near that to make, so why not sell it for 60, even thats steep but im sure a whole load more people would be tempted, Â£240 is so ludacris(spelling?) that i wouldnt even debate it or have little ummm n arrr about it and im into the hobby and work fulltime in a trade so its not like i earn poo money, its just purly the fact it wouldnt cost them that much to make 30 or those lol

EDIT; Obviously i understand it puts the light in an exclusive legue, but really! i dont even think some of the better off and hardcore hobbiest would dip in for that?? and at Â£100 it would still be an exclusive light, and still proberly close to 90% profit, for 'doaqua' that is.

rant over.....


----------



## NeilW

Tanks starting to recover and grow out more which I'm happy with.  Currently dosing 0.8mls of EasyCarbo (so the higher recommended dose) with the 9watt light only running for 4 hours as an algae preventative which I'll then up as the tank regains health.  Gained some valuable insight into the workings of liquid carbon on this thread. 

I was thinking of investing in some ADA Green Gain - did anyone have experience with this and would recommend?

Heres some more shots as it is;


----------



## nayr88

Hey Neil, nice shot of your shrimp  I have got some green gain but havnt planted up my tank just hardscape and cycling filter. I'm sure Viktor will see the ada mention and jump in with his knowledge of there products.

Keep it up pal looks great. Must be hard not having the light on for longer just for viewing pleasure.


----------



## andyh

Hey Neil 

Tank is looking good dude!

Green gain, is one of those products u should always have in your tool box IMO.
After a water change or big prune I apply it and it helps the plants recover and gives them a nice kick start.
I used it with the moss I bought from you with excellent results. It also last for ages coz you dose so little!
Regards
Andyh
Sorry for any typos this was done on my iPhone.


----------



## NeilW

Cheers guys.  Just managed to pick up some Green Gain for the bargain price of Â£16.20   



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Hey Neil, nice shot of your shrimp  I have got some green gain but havnt planted up my tank just hardscape and cycling filter. I'm sure Viktor will see the ada mention and jump in with his knowledge of there products.
> 
> Keep it up pal looks great. Must be hard not having the light on for longer just for viewing pleasure.



Thanks mate    Hopefully I'll be regaining the numbers of my Crystals as I made the mistake of ending up with a lot of shrimp being the same age which meant they died within a few months of each other.  On the plus side out of the 6 remaining adults 2 are pregnant and I noticed three babies.

Just upped the photo period to 5 hours, cooking on gas now    To be honest its not too bad not having the light on for so long as the tank looks OK in the day just from the light from the window.  I'm just paying the price for having such poor flow to begin with and letting the moss grow into shag pile.



			
				andyh said:
			
		

> Hey Neil
> 
> Tank is looking good dude!
> 
> Green gain, is one of those products u should always have in your tool box IMO.
> After a water change or big prune I apply it and it helps the plants recover and gives them a nice kick start.
> I used it with the moss I bought from you with excellent results. It also last for ages coz you dose so little!
> Regards
> Andyh
> Sorry for any typos this was done on my iPhone.



Cheers Andy   

Thats interesting to hear that the Green Gain does so well for your moss from the start;  I found mine slow to grow underwater to begin with until it's established, so you may have found a neat trick.  Hopefully it will help then with the damaged areas in my carpet.

Did you have any photos of your moss?  Be interesting to see how its doing under very different conditions as you both dose CO2 and EI?



Just found this nano by Mr Amano in one of my new NA World books and thought it looked a bit familiar.  Great bit of inspiration with the more unkempt Christmas moss.  So tempting to set up another nano.


----------



## andyh

Neil

Yes i have a pic see below, this is one portion of the two you sold me so the growth is excellent really.




This is simply superglued to the rock, its had two hard prunes and its about 4 weeks growth. Dosing is ADA at the moment, with Pressurised CO2 as its in my Nano.

The other piece of similar size has gone into my 200l with is EI/Metal Halide and press CO2. Should be interesting to compare the different growth rates.  

Andy


----------



## NeilW

Looks good!  I managed to get my whole carpet from four 4 x 4cm portions but it took a few months emersed (so unlimited CO2).  It maybe the white balance but your moss looks a lighter green to mine


----------



## nayr88

Neil, sorry mate i havnt got green gain ive got green bacter :/ haha.

Did you get yours from ebay hong kong seller?? have you orderd from them before? thinking about ordering it but dont want it turning up as like ABA green grain lol or some snidey kind of mock up


----------



## NeilW

nayr88 said:
			
		

> Did you get yours from ebay hong kong seller?? have you orderd from them before? thinking about ordering it but dont want it turning up as like ABA green grain lol or some snidey kind of mock up


Yeah mines from a HK Ebay seller.  I got Phyton Git previously from them and it was the real deal    Just means I paid Â£15 inc. postage instead of Â£30 before postage!


----------



## Tom

How long was delivery?


----------



## viktorlantos

Well Green Gain is something you add at water changes or after trimming, based on the ADA fert regime. Using this product a while ago on 3 of my tanks. I see there the plant start to grow back a bit quicker after trimming, like stems, but this is not a significant difference.

Plants getting greener? Weird, but probably. At least i see that if i dose green gain i have less red plants. Or the red color on plant is more of a green. Maybe this is only me, but i read the same thing on some Malaysian forum too. I never tested it with laboratory gears, but this is part of my fert stuff.


----------



## NeilW

Tom said:
			
		

> How long was delivery?


7-14 days, cant really complain for less then Â£3 for half way round the world. 



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> Well Green Gain is something you add at water changes or after trimming, based on the ADA fert regime. Using this product a while ago on 3 of my tanks. I see there the plant start to grow back a bit quicker after trimming, like stems, but this is not a significant difference.
> 
> Plants getting greener? Weird, but probably. At least i see that if i dose green gain i have less red plants. Or the red color on plant is more of a green. Maybe this is only me, but i read the same thing on some Malaysian forum too. I never tested it with laboratory gears, but this is part of my fert stuff.


Thats doesn't sound too bad.  Its always good to expand my 'tool kit' with another option  

I think I've bought my Phyton Git and Green Gain as ADA miracle cures - if I believe in it hard enough then it WILL work


----------



## NeilW

See if you can pick up some of these useful glassware brushes next time you visit the dreaded dentist   













left to right- interdental brush, ADA spring washer, sainsburys bottle brush


----------



## John Starkey

Hi Neil,it,s a long time since i last looked at your nano,i must say you have done a cracking job alround,the planting and the rocks all suit this size nano brilliantly,i love the moss on the stones too all in all a cracking nano and a good journal too   ,
regards,
john.


----------



## NeilW

john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Neil,it,s a long time since i last looked at your nano,i must say you have done a cracking job alround,the planting and the rocks all suit this size nano brilliantly,i love the moss on the stones too all in all a cracking nano and a good journal too   ,
> regards,
> john.



Thanks very much for your kind words mate   

It's been a real battle to keep it on track due to poor flow from that beast of a rock but I'm hopefully on the road to recovery now I've rearranged the inlet and outflow.

Thats great to hear someone still reads my ramblings, I'm surprised anyones interested in reading 26 pages worth of lowly nano    I hope to get hold of the new TMC Microhabitat (the PFK one) when its finally properly released, and still got my Do!Aqua plant glass so I'll do a new journal for both and get going with more stuff in future rather then watching moss grow.

Cheers again,
Neil


----------



## NeilW

A fish out of water...





First time I caught my Otto doing this, he was sat there for a good 5 minutes with his gills just below the waterline.  I don't think its a water quality issue though as the CRS are fine and I don't dose CO2 and have plenty of surface movement so wouldn't have oxygen problems.  He used to 'scoot' up the sides of the glass fully out the water though a few months back to eat the accumulated line of surface scum.  Maybe just evolution in action, next he'll want to shake hands  

Anyone else experienced bizarre otto behaviour?


----------



## andyh

Ha ha Good pic, mine tend to occasionally do the "otto mad dash" were they just blast up and down the tank for 30seconds crashing into everything!


----------



## PM

Haha, I've never seen an otto go above the water level!

I love the way they 'sit' with their fins


----------



## Ian Holdich

Like you say neil, it could well be evolution, you'll be posting picks of you throwing it sticks in a few weeks! Great pic BTW.


----------



## NeilW

andyh said:
			
		

> Ha ha Good pic, mine tend to occasionally do the "otto mad dash" were they just blast up and down the tank for 30seconds crashing into everything!


Ottos only seem to have an 'off' and 'superfast' switch    



			
				PM said:
			
		

> I love the way they 'sit' with their fins


I've caught him before actually 'hugging' a crypt leaf with his fins to hold on   



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> Like you say neil, it could well be evolution, you'll be posting picks of you throwing it sticks in a few weeks!


He likes my tweezers, does that count as a stick?


----------



## NeilW

My plan for this tank is to change the planting completely to freshen it up but keep the hardscape as it is.  The existing plants will get reused in my new nano or Do!Aqua plant glass.  I was thinking just hairgrass like in this old Amano 'scape, what do you guy think?  






Would Eleocharis Acicularis be OK if trimmed to size?  From experience Parvula may be a little too short?  Maybe Acicularis in the background and Parvula in the foreground?

Any recommendations appreciated


----------



## viktorlantos

On the Otto i bet if you use some toothbrush on the silicone edges and remove the algae they will find a different place to hang on  Good capture by the way.


----------



## NeilW

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> On the Otto i bet if you use some toothbrush on the silicone edges and remove the algae they will find a different place to hang on  Good capture by the way.



Cheers for the tip, I'll try and find a toothbrush and give it a go mate    I had to be quick for that photo! 

I'm interested in giving the tank a good clean all round when I rescape so I think I'll get in with the toothbrush then.


----------



## NeilW

Thought I would update this with what I'm up to and my current thinking.

The tank has suffered due to a mega busy uni third year with surface scum and moss lifting.  Today I had a big sort out and a rethink.  The plan is to ditch the 'ideal' of going low tech and dose 0.8ml EasyCarbo and 0.3mls TPN+ daily.  I'll see how the plants respond to this and if I still get algae/surface scum as a result of the rubbish flow from the big rock then I'll try and purchase one of the new TMC LED fixtures off their Microhabitat to lower the light.  Last time the staghorn started when the inlet and outlet were in the old position, so I'm hoping that I'll be in a better place to begin with.  I'm determined to make this 'scape work!







This is how the tank looks now.  I've now completely removed the partially dying moss and meticulously sorted out the the good bits for my new Mini 'S'.  The anubias has been moved slightly nearer the rock to help improve the flow around it.  My new idea is to almost exclusively use various lengths of hairgrass similar to the ADA tank on the previous page, so I've moved the existing dwarf variety to the foreground.  So I'll be keeping the anubias, ditching the crypts and buying a couple of pots of both _parvula_ and _acicularis_.  Sound like a plan?

Cheers, 
Neil


----------



## viktorlantos

NeilW said:
			
		

> The tank has suffered due to a mega busy uni third year with surface scum



I know some people hate this, but next time try to use an airpump for the nights. when CO2 goes off, turn on aeration. Turn that off when the CO2 comes back with a timer. Not only helps the scum, but fishes and shrimps will love the extra aeration.

would not like ot open up another discussion on plant health / CO2 / fert / surface scum topic here, just a tip to try. If you do not like the result it was not a big investment.


----------



## Garuf

No Viktor, you speak the truth, I was reading that High lord Barr is using wet and dry filters these days for that exact reason!


----------



## NeilW

viktorlantos said:
			
		

> NeilW said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tank has suffered due to a mega busy uni third year with surface scum
> 
> 
> 
> I know some people hate this, but next time try to use an airpump for the nights. when CO2 goes off, turn on aeration. Turn that off when the CO2 comes back with a timer. Not only helps the scum, but fishes and shrimps will love the extra aeration.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great tip mate  .  Funny thing is that I don't run CO2, only liquid carbon so nothing mega.  I think that last time my balance was off between lighting, flow and plant demands.  Hopefully I've fixed the flow issue by moving the inlet and outlet pipe and I will address the plant demands better by regularly dosing.  Cheers again for the input though, I may well give the air pump a go if everything goes wrong again.     



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> No Viktor, you speak the truth, I was reading that High lord Barr is using wet and dry filters these days for that exact reason!


Always interesting to read this sort of thing as it goes to show that a lot of what is 'right' is what people find through tinkering and experimenting with their own specific tanks to find out a solution.


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## NeilW

Hello everyone   

I havn't been on the forum in while due to uni and moving house. On the plus side I've managed to get rid of any traces of algae in the tank with regular liquid carbon dosing at 0.8mls daily, regular water changes and better circulation with a temporary hang on filter. Also been dosing some Phyton Git and Green Gain ADA voodoo. The shrimp seem to be enjoying the change in tap water and are more active.  Future plans are to DIY-up an acrylic spray bar so I can ditch the Liberty HOB and also get hold of more pots of hairgrass to fill it out.

a quick snap of the tank currently;





and this is a dodgy mock-up of what I want it to be like with concave grass planting;





cheers for looking,
Neil


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## nayr88

Hey Neil, liking the ideas mate. The spray bar is a must! That hob inlet makes me sick in my mouth a little ha ha

I like the HG plan, I know you can't do it in paint but the anubas would look better moved forward a little, say to underneath the (very nice looking) shrimp on the main rock......or in my tank  

I'm not to keen on the tall hg were the hob inlet is, the only way I could see it 'working' would be if it went across the back on the tank at that height behind the smaller rock, and then say something like P.helferi around the front of the rock and going down along behind the sloping rock that goes into the gravel....

Not a negative comment btw,I loved you previous planting of this scape and sure it'll be a cracker once again.

Good luck buddy


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## NeilW

nayr88 said:
			
		

> Hey Neil, liking the ideas mate. The spray bar is a must! That hob inlet makes me sick in my mouth a little ha ha


I agree it looks rank, my main issue is you cant view the tank from the side either.  As a plus though it will be pre-cycled for my Mini-S.  If I get the spray bar sorted before I set up the Mini-S I'll squash the sponge from the HOB into my external to keep it going.



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> I like the HG plan, I know you can't do it in paint but the anubas would look better moved forward a little


I agree, I was going to move it forward but its got a habit of uprooting itself at the moment so its ended up being moved a bit.  I'll fix it at some point   



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> I'm not to keen on the tall hg were the hob inlet is, the only way I could see it 'working' would be if it went across the back on the tank at that height behind the smaller rock, and then say something like P.helferi around the front of the rock and going down along behind the sloping rock that goes into the gravel....


I think I'll try it concave but the shaping of it will be more subtle and less severe, also I don't think I'll have it the same height as the left side.  See how we go and if it looks odd i can always give it a haircut



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> Not a negative comment btw,I loved you previous planting of this scape and sure it'll be a cracker once again.


No worries, constructive criticism is always well received    The plan for this one is a tank thats sustainable and not going to cause me a headache like before! It's a great learning curve to keep persevering with the same 'scape and also works with Amano's idea of keeping the rockwork and just changing the planting. Cheers again


----------



## Tom

Is this scape still going Neil?


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## NeilW

Tom said:
			
		

> Is this scape still going Neil?



Surprisingly it is!  However its looking rather bare and unloved recently due to a lack of time, although not completely neglected as I have been keeping it clean and tidy. I added another rock in the foreground a few weeks back to prevent the soil slipping forward from the lack of roots but it was nothing noteworthy so I didn't do a write up.  The next plan when I get the time is to DIY an acrylic spray bar so I can ditch the HOB thats making up the flow and of course add more plants!

This is its current state;






Any suggestions welcome for planting.

Cheers for looking though mate


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## Tom

Ahh, that rock makes a huge difference, I like it!


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## Garuf

Still the nicest nano out there. I know this might be seen as slander, but why not ditch the out take for a standard ehiem one for a while and see if it helps? While testing flow rates on my own filer I found I could claw back between 50-70lph extra by simply changing to the stock tubes.


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## NeilW

Tom said:
			
		

> Ahh, that rock makes a huge difference, I like it!



Cheers, I'm glad you think so as it was a bit of a risk.  Seems its balanced the whole tank out now though   



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Still the nicest nano out there. I know this might be seen as slander, but why not ditch the out take for a standard ehiem one for a while and see if it helps? While testing flow rates on my own filer I found I could claw back between 50-70lph extra by simply changing to the stock tubes.



Thanks very much mate  I havn't had time to check the forum in a while but I reckon Tom's ADA nano is a stunner, the plantings spot on so I'll take some inspiration! 

Surprisingly I havn't tried just switching to the stock pipe so I may just give it a go! I know I've got issues with that lily straight away as its not right for the standard tubing so its reduced down. Maybe if the stock crook pipe works then I could try just a larger glass lily thats more appropriate for the tubing instead of going to the hassle of DIYing

Another reason behind neglecting my own tank was having to deal with the algae infested eye-sore that was my dads kitchen nano.  Worked a bit of budget low tech magic on it to stop it annoying me when I walked past it so this is what it looks like now;





certainly not a looker but at least it doesn't burn my eyes now  

Cheers again


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## DavidC

I love your tank. Simple yet effective (although getting it to look that way is far from simple)


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## NeilW

DavidC said:
			
		

> I love your tank. Simple yet effective (although getting it to look that way is far from simple)



Thanks very much David    

At the time I was reading a lot of stuff on general japanese aesthetics and rock gardens, so I think thats what inspired a lot of the 'complexity' in simpleness if that makes sense?

Just about to read the book 'White' by Kenya Hara which is meant to be a more heavy weight design classic on the concept and meaning of 'white' (or 'negative space') in Japanese culture.


----------



## NeilW

On Garufs advice I swapped the lily to the stock Eheim shepherd's crook and I'll see how we go;





The original Do!Aqua glass pipe was a reduced size as I got it on the cheap, so we'll see how we go with some more unobstructed directional flow. If it does the job I'll get one of these jet type glass ones thats the appropriate size to replace the green plastic.

Thats plan A anyways.  If that fails plan B is to DIY a spray bar.

Cheers all,
Neil


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## ghostsword

Neil, that is a very strong scape, looks really bold. 

Are you adding any emersed plants on top of the rock? Maybe some moss with glosso?


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## Tom

Have you noticed any improvement in flow? 
You just need some plants in there now 

Tom


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## NeilW

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Neil, that is a very strong scape, looks really bold.
> 
> Are you adding any emersed plants on top of the rock? Maybe some moss with glosso?


Thanks mate   

It's already got a touch of coral pellia emersed on the rock where it attached itself from a trimming I did months ago but it is ridiculously slow growing. 









I may add some moss, but I need to work out a way of attaching it and keeping it wet to begin with so it can adapt?



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> Have you noticed any improvement in flow?
> You just need some plants in there now
> 
> Tom


Have noticed a difference in flow, so far so good *touch wood*

In respect to plants I managed to get over to Aquajardin yesterday and pick up some 1-2-Grow dwarf hairgrass;

(sorry about the water marks)








First time I've used the 1-2-Grow pots and the quality is unbelievable, its that healthy and green that it looks almost flourescent, bit of a Frankenstein's lab creation even. I think the tank is too 'bling' at the minute and I need to mix more species in to get the natural look.

Also got hold of some Tropica Xmas moss although I'll hopefully tie that tomorrow   

Cheers


----------



## ghostsword

Add some moss from the water line up, as it grows above it will get water from below. Also look at staurogyne from the water line, it will grow.


----------



## NeilW

Hey everyone, thought I'd go for an update

I decided to try to eliminate the dead spot around the big rock with the help of one of these;

















By dividing the output power of the filter by two means a gentle but more even spread. If it works I'll replace the Eheim green plastic with glassware. 











Im torn at the minute whether to rescape using the same rocks or just tweak the planting in this (dont fix what isn't broken). 

If I did rescape it would be a good opportunity to give the rocks a good bleaching and freshen up the look into something more original rather then a hairgrass Iwagumi.

This stuff in particular has caught my eye; ADA Congo Sand




source http://www.adana.co.jp/en/products/na_substrate

I have yet to see someone use it in a scape and I think it would work well as a contrast for my CRS. A decision I need to make is whether to use it exclusively in a couple of different grades (so purely sand substrate) or use it alongside a soil substrate. I've never not used soil before and could imagine growth would be very slow without it?


----------



## nayr88

Top notch mate, love this scape still, and the crs clambering around look real cool.

I like the T piece idea should help a ton, didn't fancy the spray bar though? 


Oh and does the sand come in grades seperatly or what you buy is mixed from very small the the larger stones?


----------



## NeilW

nayr88 said:
			
		

> Top notch mate, love this scape still, and the crs clambering around look real cool.
> 
> I like the T piece idea should help a ton, didn't fancy the spray bar though?
> 
> 
> Oh and does the sand come in grades seperatly or what you buy is mixed from very small the the larger stones?



Cheers mate    Had a bit of a CRS baby boom recently which is cool 

I figured a spray bar would still give me a dead spot but on the other side of the rock as its only a single directional flow (just over a wider area). Hopefully this will work better, although I could do with two 'jet' type outflows rather then that lily.

It looks like the sand comes in 'S' (small?) and 'SS' (super small?!) but is also similar looking to the 'Aqua Gravel' so you could mix that in which goes up to 'LL'. The ADA sand I bought before is less uniform in size though then other brands which is nice but that could be because its from the 'Forest' series.  I need to chose between getting some Columbo Flora Base black for the background planting with some 'SS' Congo sand for the foreground or just go for both the 'S' and 'SS' grade Congo sand. Not sure how it would cope with sand only dosing liquid carbon though. I'm guessing as long as I'm religious with the nutrient dosage then it would be fine?


----------



## bigmatt

if you don't want to pay ada prices unipac do an inert fine gravel in the same colour! I just can't remember the name! Matt


----------



## viktorlantos

We used in this tank: http://www.flickr.com/photos/viktorlant ... hotostream
looks nice under water.

Your tank looks awesome mate!


----------



## nayr88

Yeh I hear you mate,

I'm going TGM next month and I'm going to raid the graded gravels haha, I think aslong as your dosing is militant yourll be fine


----------



## NeilW

bigmatt said:
			
		

> if you don't want to pay ada prices unipac do an inert fine gravel in the same colour! I just can't remember the name! Matt


Cheers Matt, I'll check it out. Perhaps I could combine both? You wern't thinking of Unipac's own 'Congo' Sand like this? If so it looks like they have a more even split of colours rather then predominately black in the ADA which is interesting. 



			
				viktorlantos said:
			
		

> We used in this tank: http://www.flickr.com/photos/viktorlant ... hotostream
> looks nice under water.
> 
> Your tank looks awesome mate!


Thanks very much indeed Viktor   . That's really helpful too to see it in use in a tank - you are the ADA product guru of this forum, I think I would have no money if I came all the way to your shop in Hungary   



			
				nayr88 said:
			
		

> I'm going TGM next month and I'm going to raid the graded gravels haha, I think aslong as your dosing is militant yourll be fine


I'm glad in a way that I've never been to the actual TGM store as I can be more 'controlled' on their webshop


----------



## bigmatt

It wasn't the Congo - really annoyed i can't remember the name.  However i also got a BIG bag of very simialr looking stuff at my LFS (Ferrybridge Aquatics) - it looks identical to the pic you posted - for £13.  I'll big it out wheni get home and let you know
Cheers
Matt


----------



## NeilW

Cheers mate, I checked out their own site but it wasn't very enlightening. May be nice and cheap if I can use that stuff for the bulk and the ADA for the finer stuff at the front. Mind you I think it will only take 4kg in total!


----------



## bigmatt

Where abouts are you mate?  I could probably sort you some out but it'll hellishly expensive to post!
Cheers
Matt


----------



## NeilW

Sadly I'm right down south in Basingstoke but thank you very much for such a kind offer!   

Just updated my location on my profile so I'm not so useless in the future


----------



## viktorlantos

NeilW said:
			
		

> Thanks very much indeed Viktor  . That's really helpful too to see it in use in a tank - you are the ADA product guru of this forum, I think I would have no money if I came all the way to your shop in Hungary



You're welcome mate  
Nah i just a fan like anyone in my hobby life


----------



## NeilW

Long time since any updates. Due to neglect on my part from finishing the uni course the tank was a bit of a state where my only maintenance was the weekly water change. 

I made the decision that I want to rescape using the same lovely rock but with a change to a gravel substrate and mostly moss layout. I've also decided to use the Mini-S rather then see it languishing for a rainy day.

Heres the first stage of moving the CRS to a holding tank so they can easily be transferred to their new home. To my surprise I have 57 (!) in total that were in the nocks and crannies of the dragonstone! 





The old rock has been soaking in diluted bleach so will be nice and sparkly. 

I hope to keep you all updated with the changes


----------



## Garuf

NeilW said:
			
		

> Long time since any updates. Due to neglect on my part from finishing the uni course the tank was a bit of a state where my only maintenance was the weekly water change.
> 
> I made the decision that I want to rescape using the same lovely rock but with a change to a gravel substrate and mostly moss layout. I've also decided to use the Mini-S rather then see it languishing for a rainy day.
> 
> Heres the first stage of moving the CRS to a holding tank so they can easily be transferred to their new home. To my surprise I have 57 (!) in total that were in the nocks and crannies of the dragonstone!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The old rock has been soaking in diluted bleach so will be nice and sparkly.
> 
> I hope to keep you all updated with the changes


AMAZING amount of shrimp. 
And I can totally sympathise with you on the weekly wc only, my tank had that treatment for about 3 months and it doesn't make for a pretty tank as a general rule.


----------



## Zerocon

The large dragon stone is one of the most gorgeous things I have ever seen, it looks so ancient!


----------



## NeilW

Update;
Looking to ship about 30 odd CRS out soon to thin them out abit.

Old rocks now nice and clean, been playing around with a few dry compositions;


----------



## andyh

let me know when you are ready to sell some CRS, i will have some from yer!


----------



## Garuf

Such a great piece of rock work, really really jealous of it and of the shrimp. 
Good luck with the posting!


----------



## Garuf

Scape two reminds me of thors cave.


----------



## NeilW

andyh said:
			
		

> let me know when you are ready to sell some CRS, i will have some from yer!



I'll let you know mate   

The next move is to separate them into a holding tank and get some shots so people can have a look. I have had a lot of interest but stupidly forgot who's already said they wanted some so I think I'll start a new thread in the for sale section to make it easy and fair, but I'll try give you a shout when I do.

Also not sure about going rate at the moment as the prices fluctuated recently. AE are doing undisclosed grades for £7.99, Aquashrimp are the cheapest at £5.50 for a low A grade. I'd say mine are between A and B grade and of mixed ages and sexes so what price do you guys think would be fair? I was thinking of the £4-5 mark (plus postage) with a Live arrival guarantee so you get a refund if any don't make the journey? Sorry for the complete uselessness   



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Such a great piece of rock work, really really jealous of it and of the shrimp.
> Good luck with the posting!



Cheers mate, glad you like it. I'm trying to simplify and get a tank, rocks, plants and shrimp that are exactly what I've been after which equals;
-The mighty Mini-S
-The nice dragon stone I acquired a long time ago but I'm still not bored of 
-Some top quality grade shrimp
-a scape entirely of mini moss and/or coral pellia
-ADA gravel 

Hopefully I can raise some pennies toward it with my shrimp army then I don't have the other half to answer to


----------

