# Hygrophila polysperma does not grow



## ButtNekkid (22 Nov 2015)

Hi,

Long time lurker here! Had to sign in because this forum has given me so much! 

Could someone give me some pointers on what to try to get this "idiotproof" plant to grow
These plants grew like crazy in my old tank (60L), now they are struggling. I have no need to trim then since I planted them from my old tank. It's been 6 months! Older leaves are dying and gathering algae.

Other plants are doing ok.

Specs:
Tank: Juwel Rio 240 L
Lights: 2x 38w T8 w/ reflectors, on for 9 hrs a day, No break in lighting.
Filtration: stock Juwel internal filter
No added CO2
Stocking:

12 Cardinals
1 male betta
1 SAE
6 Otto´s

Is it light stocking?, I have no idea

Lots of plants:

*Ceratophyllum
Hygrophila polysperma
Vallisneria spiralis
Limnophila sessiliflora
Echinodorus amazonicus*

No algae to speak of.

Eheim skimmer at the other side of the tank from internal filter. Do I need more circulation, since it is a low tech tank?

http://tinyurl.com/pskb2pa This goes into the tank 3 times a week. 2 tsp/10ml on 1 dosing


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## rebel (22 Nov 2015)

Could you post a picture of old growth, new growth, failing leaves, full tank shot and closeups of the other plants new growth and old growth?


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## ButtNekkid (22 Nov 2015)




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## Sarpijk (22 Nov 2015)

I would probably ditch the foxtail! I have found that it grows  at the expense of other plants especially if you do not dose any ferts!


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## rebel (25 Nov 2015)

Probably K and PO4 deficiency.

One approach is to reduce light slightly or just add some K2PO4 say 1/4 EI dosing and continue to observe.


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## ButtNekkid (26 Nov 2015)

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I´ll up the dosage and see what happens next.
Do you think that liquid CO2 will benefit my low tech tank? I´m thinking TNC Carbon? Should I dose it as suggested or in smaller amounts?


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## ceg4048 (26 Nov 2015)

ButtNekkid said:


> Do you think that liquid CO2 will benefit my low tech tank?


Hello,
          Adding liquid CO2 to a low tech tanks immediately converts it to a high tech tank. High tech is all about CO2 enrichment and nothing else. People often get into bigger battles when they start adding CO2. That tank looks pretty nice to me. The most likely reason the plant has difficulty is due to poor gas exchange at that location. The tank is deeper than the previous one so gas exchange was easier. In a deeper tank, the flow and distribution of the water at that location may be an issue, so perhaps focusing on filter flow rate and distribution techniques is the first place to start looking.

Adding small amounts of EI powders once a week or  once every two weeks will help all the plants but it is doubtful nutrition is a problem, although you did not specify what algal species is on the old leaves. The type of algae will tell you what the plant is missing.

Cheers,


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## ButtNekkid (27 Nov 2015)

ceg4048 said:


> Hello,
> Adding liquid CO2 to a low tech tanks immediately converts it to a high tech tank. High tech is all about CO2 enrichment and nothing else. People often get into bigger battles when they start adding CO2. That tank looks pretty nice to me. The most likely reason the plant has difficulty is due to poor gas exchange at that location. The tank is deeper than the previous one so gas exchange was easier. In a deeper tank, the flow and distribution of the water at that location may be an issue, so perhaps focusing on filter flow rate and distribution techniques is the first place to start looking.
> 
> Adding small amounts of EI powders once a week or  once every two weeks will help all the plants but it is doubtful nutrition is a problem, although you did not specify what algal species is on the old leaves. The type of algae will tell you what the plant is missing.
> ...



Hi,

They have only recently started to get GSA. I had a Aquaball with its spraybar at the left bottom corner pushing water back to juwel´s internal filter. Was that a big nono? Was there a conflict on current?
http://tinyurl.com/zruz3lg would something like this benefit my situation? Where should i install it?
I have plans to remove the *Hygrophila *at right side and shift that low growing plant in front of Vallis (can someone identify the plant?) to under the tree, to improve flow to the juwel filter if i purchase that Tunze doohickey. 
It´s all a one plant attached to a piece of a wood. Does that sound like a plan?

Sooo, the liquid CO2 is out of the picture?


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## ButtNekkid (27 Nov 2015)

I also forgot to mention that the tank has been running for 12 months now and *Hygrophila *has struggled from the beginning.
I have also had this brown algae from the beginning on the glass and plants that is insanely hard to get off.


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## ceg4048 (27 Nov 2015)

Hi,
    Actually it's very difficult to sa what is a no-no or not, or even to suggest a path with better data, like schematics or images showing the specific area of the tank being discussed. The general rule of thumb and the general no-no is that the two filter flow directions should not oppose each other, they should always be facing the same direction.

It's not clear how much light you are using and we don't know if you are using fertilizers and so forth.

I can see a full frame shot of the tank in the first photo but any view of the filter outlet and pump placement is unclear to me. 
The tank from that perspective looks in great shape to me.

If you have been running the tank for 12 months and if this is a recent development, it might be that the increasing bulk of the plants has started blocking flow, so you may just need to do a trim.

In any case, it would be helpful if we could see some more details.

Cheers,


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## ButtNekkid (27 Nov 2015)

Hi,

*Lights and the fertilization* amounts are in the *opening post*. Maybe the amount of fertilizers has not been sufficient due to increased plant mass? Just an idea.
I remember that the fertilizing was really poor at the beginning of this setup. I had no idea what I was doing. My knowledge of keeping aquariums was from the 90´s 
Maybe it started to derail from the start and since it is a low tech tank, it takes a looong time to rectify.

I´ll post more pics tomorrow. Any ideas what you guys want to see specifically.

This struggle with *Hygrophila *is the only thing that´s driving me up the wall, especially since it should grow in basically any condition!
And these problems with this plant are in every part of the tank.

Really nice to see that there are really helpful pros that are willing to help retards like me!


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## ButtNekkid (27 Nov 2015)

I found 2 pics from the same time as those above


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## ceg4048 (28 Nov 2015)

ButtNekkid said:


> I´ll post more pics tomorrow. Any ideas what you guys want to see specifically.


Yes, we need to see how your filter outlet(s) is arranged where is it pointing and how far below the surface it is.

Those photos show Green Spot Algae (GSA) on the leaves. You need to remove those immediately as they will never get better and they contribute to the problem.

GSA is cause by any combination of poor CO2 and poor PO4.

Since this is a non-enriched CO2 tank, there is not much one can do about the rate of CO2 ingress into the tank, but one can distribute the ambient CO2 by optimizing the flow patterns in the tank. That's why we want to see the arrangement of your filter outlet(s).

Obviously, more KH2PO4 can be added, as mentioned above by rebel. You don't need a whole lot in a low tech tank but it is always appreciated. 1/16 of a teaspoon per 20 gallons is plenty, so just a pinch, or a quarter teaspoon once a week will help.

Hygrophillas are fast growing plants and so they use CO2 and nutrients at a fast rate. If they fall short of nutrient availability then they suffer. Other plants, such as Vallis have better mechanisms for CO2 uptake and if they reach the surface they can obtain it from the air above. So there are a lot of small details that everyone glosses over in order to draw the wrong conclusions. Hygrophillas don't grow under "any" conditions. They grow under the conditions that are favorable to them and it's only coincidence that conditions are favorable in many other tanks, so it gets the reputation of being indestructible, but it isn't. It's just lucky.

Cheers,


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## PARAGUAY (28 Nov 2015)

Cegs last paragraph is just about what I was thinking,on one tank I had Hygrophillia and first Ludw.repens punching up through a surface full of duckweed .Having had fast growers "crash" before I was generous with the EI fertiser(luxury uptake) and the CO2 flow must have been right-lucky maybe as I have learnt more about flow issues since


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## ButtNekkid (29 Nov 2015)

Hi,

Some pics from the internal filter, as you can see, it´s pointed towards the back wall, slightly towards the surface


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## ceg4048 (30 Nov 2015)

Hi,
   Thanks for the additional photos.
Yes, that's not really an ideal configuration. In low tech tanks you can usually get away with that though, but in this case you might want to use a flexible spud and/or some other means try to get more flow in the direction of the plants in question. Remove the leaves that are damaged by algae. 

Anubias is a slow growing plant, so it's difficult to avoid getting GSA on the older leaves. Adding more PO4 generally  helps the leaves to resist algal attacks.

Cheers,


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## rebel (30 Nov 2015)

ButtNekkid said:


> I also forgot to mention that the tank has been running for 12 months now and *Hygrophila *has struggled from the beginning.
> I have also had this brown algae from the beginning on the glass and plants that is insanely hard to get off.



This sounds like GSA(esque) to me.
I do wonder what would happen if you dose a little K2PO4 for kicks and giggles (Say 1/4 - 1/8 EI doses) and observed for one month.

Make sure you have removed all dead leaves and do regular water changes to remove detritus/light gravel vac etc.

While it's difficult to reduce GSA growth, I reckon it can be done even in a low tech; What I am not sure is that whether you can have enough light not to stunt the polysperma (very hungry plant) but to prevent GSA on a slow grower. Other approach is to make sure your slow growers are in the shade and fast growers get dibs on light and flow.

I think the advice from Ceg4048 is very sound (as usual).


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## ButtNekkid (30 Nov 2015)

Hi all,

Really nice to get so much help and new angles on this fight!

I´m not that worried about the GSA as it only appeared when I ceased to dose my ferts for a while. It has not reappeared at the glass after removing. It´s only at those old leaves that I haven´t removed. Does it attack new leaves as well?

I was worried I was dosing too much. I was dosing daily a tsp/5 ml

Any idea where I might get K2PO4 as a powder and/or liquid form? http://www.easylife.nl/en/freshwater/fosfo Does this provide what I need? Don´t I get enough it from the fishes food? I only feed them once a day. Is that enough? 

Should I move that Eheim Skimmer next to the internal filter so that they would flow in the same direction. What about the flow at the bottom?
Does the bottom have enough circulation with these two If I see moving leaves?

I have plans to move that anubias next to the internal filter since it does not need much light. Does that sound like a plan?


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## rebel (1 Dec 2015)

If the polysperma is suffering from low PO4, then addition would be helpful. It's unlikely to be harmful to overdose a little.

If it's CO2, then change of flow may help it.

Anubias always likes a shady spot and can do it's thing slowly...


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## ButtNekkid (6 Dec 2015)

Hi,

Updated pic


Does this look like a more reasonable setup?


After 50% wc I added 10 ml of Fosfo and Sera Blackwater Aquatan.


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