# Pygmy Cory infected.



## zozo

10 days ago i went to a petshop and i saw a bunch of Pygmy Cory's in a small thank with a few agressive Botia's. The looked ok and wanted them anyway and thought save a few of these poor little things and give them a better home. I bought 9 of them.. At home i noticed one of them was missing an eye, happens with agressive botia's i thought. But this morning i noticed one of them scratching the hardware like an idiot, i sanded every stone in my tank to take the sharp edges off and still cory managed to wound itself.. Damn not good!

Here it is.





I inspected the others, and 7 of the 9 where all in a bad shape, not feeling happy and a few of them also seem to mis an eye. Can't be, but they are so small it just looked that way. At a closer look the eye isnt missing at all. Its just infected and has a grey shade.




Darn! A parasite infection is my best guess.. Went straight back to the shop and yes! The rest still left there also had a few with the same infection. The shop owner offered me to bring them back. But when i said, what good is that? You probably will flush them down the drain and still you infected my tank! So he gave me some meds for free (Tetra TremaEx). Nice gesture, but still im pist off a bit.

Does anybody of you know these symptoms? Will TremaEx do the job? I realy hope i get them back on track.


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## zozo

Think i found something.. 
*Gyrodactylus*
http://www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/pub/diag?c=v&id=35&did=30527077 (Nice Website btw)


> , Fish do swinging movements, Fish hang near the surface, * Fish itch (fish scratch on the rocks and other objects), Fish stop feeding,* Blue-grayish slime coating,* Opacification of the cornea (keratoleukoma, nebula), Separate slightly red areas on the body*, Separation of fin rays, *Tail fin is down*, * Ulcers*



TremaEx should do something about regarding the discriptions.

Never seen those eyes before in fish.. And they are not floating yet.. There is hope..


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## dw1305

Hi all, 
Looks like "pop-eye", which is a symptom rather than a disease. 

Have a look here <http://www.fishchannel.com/media/fish-health/disease-prevention/popeye.aspx.pdf>.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo

Yes on that photo it does look like it.. I know pop-eye have seen that before..
Here is a photo with a little bit better angle, they dont pop.. That's why i first thought it was missing an eye and only very close up you see its just blury. That's what the shop owner said as well about the corys still there, it is missing an eye!?




Here you also see the fins hang, 7 out of 9 of them were malicious this morning at 5:00, didnt want to move, all hiding in the plants. Realy had to search to find them. I kinda panicked, never have seen those eyes like that. Even the otos looked unhappy to me, but that was more me i guess..

That Praziquantel stuff does a tremendous job it seems.. They are all alive and kicking and happily playing, feeding and gulping again.  It kills those parasites in hours it seems.

Thanks for the reply anyway..


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## sciencefiction

A good praziquantel based med is "fluke-solve". It kills all adult flukes in 24 hours and a 2 week bath or a repeat treatment in 3 weeks after a 1 week bath should get rid of any newly borns. It's harmless to any fish or other higher creatures in the tank too and readily dissolvable unlike some other prazi based meds. I am not familiar with TremaEx but it too contains prazi.  Praziquantel only treats flukes and flat worms and doesn't treat nematodes which could also be the culprit here but it has some effect on intestinal capillaria nematodes.
When prazi is first dosed, it's normal for the fish to temporary increase the "flashing" as they get irritated by the dying and falling flukes.

The other option which is a more broad spectrum is Kusuri wormer plus, which is a flUbendazole based med(not fenbendazole) It will kill snails and possibly shrimp too though but gets rid of round, flat worms including flukes, and even some protozoa. It's otherwise harmless to fish. 

I would up water changes and keep the tank really clean for now,  as the parasites may have caused enough damage for bacterial infections and once you've finished de-worming, you may consider a broad spectrum antibacterial med suitable for corys and one that doesn't affect the bio filter.

Good luck and well done for persevering with the sick corys.


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## zozo

Thank for the heads up SF .. I think their gona make it.. And indeed some of them are still a bit flashy sometimes.. Most be horrable for those tiny fish and those fluks most be big monsters to them. A few of them are still a bit fuzzy and dont show often or just lay still the majority of the day. At first i was worried, they didn't want to eat. I finaly could trigger their apetite with some frozen artemia. A nice releaf to see them eat and to see that all of them are still there.. I see them recover by the hour now.. I hope the eye damage isnt permanent. The next treatment is already on the calendar..

You say "antibacterial med suitable for corys" do you have any recomendations for that? Its my first dealing with sick corys, actualy its my first time having flukes in the tank.


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> You say "antibacterial med suitable for corys" do you have any recomendations for that? Its my first dealing with sick corys, actualy its my first time having flukes in the tank.



I wouldn't jump into treating with antibacterial for now if they are visibly improving. It is just something to be aware of as they seem quite heavily affected by whatever they have, looking at the pictures.  If it's flukes, the hooks may stay in the fish and rot, irritating the fish and subsequent bacterial infections are not out of question but is not a definite outcome. It depends on the immune system of the fish and tank conditions how well they fight it off. It's good that they started eating.
Generally, parasites don't kill the host because they live off the host and fish die of secondary bacterial diseases instead. I don't know if I ever dealt with actual flukes but as far as I know fish with healthy immune system can have flukes without showing signs as long as their immune system is strong. And once there's stress, the flukes overtake and can spread really fast. Some flukes have complicated life cycle and require several hosts to multiply. Others spread from fish to fish and these are most common in tanks.

Lots of water changes will do best to prevent most bacterial issues. I am not sure what antibacterial med I'd use to be honest. I've ever used a couple for a suspected bacterial issue and I don't know what did it, the 50% daily water changes or the treatment.

 Now it all depends on how all goes for the fish after the prazi treatment. If it were me, I'd wait it out, do water changes, makes sure you clean the filters and the substrate after the treatment. If it's flukes, they are famous for being persistent and hard to completely eradicate so just keep an eye on the fish and follow the recommended treatment. 
The "cloudy" eye is probably caused by a parasite overload and should improve with the treatment.   Let's hope they just have flukes and the prazi will do the trick.
Nematodes/round worms can also cause cloudy eye and needs a different treatment like the flubendazole one but you'd have to see if prazi works first as it could be either flukes or nematodes.
Bad water conditions can also cause cloudy eye, etc..And will impove with just fresh water.
And some bacterial issues possibly can cause that.
So it's really a hit and miss without diagnosing by microscope. But if you are seeing improvements, I'll stick with what you are doing and the flashing is a sign of parasites in majority of cases(also presence of nitrites in polluted tanks) so I would have started with prazi or kusuri wormer and then work from there.


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## zozo

It's not that i'm jumpy, i like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  It's better first to know what to ask for, than to ask for something  and not knowing what you get..



(The man caves corner)
It's just they are so tiny and my scape is tiny and complex as well.. So to catch one, to take a sample, i first have to chase them out of their hiding place and still have no room to hunt. But as you said, i see improvements, so i think let not stress them more then it they already are. The tank is still very young, but water quality is tip top. It all happened so soon, so im a bit in the mid as well. 

I love my pets (even the shrimps and snails) more than i love myself, or my .... They realy have to depend on me, i'm all they realy have.. What ever.. That's why i'm young free and single, i guess... 

And even if he has a 1000 or more fish to care for, i stil feel like kicking that shop owners behind..


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## zozo

They realy are improving..  and they realy are adorable little fellows. Love the way they interact with the other tank mates.. Schooling with the amber tetra's once in a while, or schooling together ore going in competition with the oto's, they even are interested in the shrimps.

This morning they had bloodworm for breakfast, the whole tank went frenzy. Enough for everybody but Cory still want's that piece the Oto wants.

In the background you also see a cory fighting an oto over  piece of bloodworm.

Even the shrimp love it and cory is waiting for a chance to get that piece..


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## sciencefiction

They look very good. I love pygmy corys and ottos.



zozo said:


> It's not that i'm jumpy, i like to prepare for the worst and hope for the best



If you want to be prepared....
The med I'd use if the push comes to shove, and I used it myself, is seachem kanaplex. Active ingredient is kanamycin sulphate and inactive is potassium sulphate.   It doesn't cause any harm to corys, shrimp or snails and I didn't notice any effect on the filter bacteria at all in my case. It's otherwise strong stuff as it's absorbed internally so it treats internal and external bacterial infections. That's the only one I am sort of certain wouldn't cause harm in a setup like this although, like with every med one needs to monitor. My tanks are the same, shrimp, corys, snails, ottos, all sensitive stuff.  This type of med should be used at full dose only following the full treatment which is 6 days, redose every 2nd day after a water change up to 3 doses.  Then remove with carbon.  I would not use it in food even though it states it can as it's strong, some fish may take too much of it and can cause constipation and blockages.
You can only order it from ebay though, so it will take a while to arrive.

_KanaPlex™ is a blended kanamycin based medication that safely and effectively treats several fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemica).
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html_


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## zozo

OK! Thank you very much. Already found a seachem dealer in Belguim.. Nice.. I'm also interested in the seachems florite was looking for that already quite a while.
http://www.poisson-or.com/

Sa se bon!


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## zozo

sciencefiction said:


> They look very good. I love pygmy corys and ottos.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to be prepared....
> The med I'd use if the push comes to shove, and I used it myself, is seachem kanaplex. Active ingredient is kanamycin sulphate and inactive is potassium sulphate.   It doesn't cause any harm to corys, shrimp or snails and I didn't notice any effect on the filter bacteria at all in my case. It's otherwise strong stuff as it's absorbed internally so it treats internal and external bacterial infections. That's the only one I am sort of certain wouldn't cause harm in a setup like this although, like with every med one needs to monitor. My tanks are the same, shrimp, corys, snails, ottos, all sensitive stuff.  This type of med should be used at full dose only following the full treatment which is 6 days, redose every 2nd day after a water change up to 3 doses.  Then remove with carbon.  I would not use it in food even though it states it can as it's strong, some fish may take too much of it and can cause constipation and blockages.
> You can only order it from ebay though, so it will take a while to arrive.
> 
> _KanaPlex™ is a blended kanamycin based medication that safely and effectively treats several fungal, and bacterial fish diseases (dropsy, popeye, fin/tail rot, septicemica).
> http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html_



I think the push came to the shove today  the cory with the wound in his side, did die this afternoon.. Went very quick, in the morning it still didn't give any sign of problems and all of a sudden i see it spinning erraticaly and laying on it's side and an half hour later it was dead. Like his swim bladder suddenly exploded. I see no other cause for that to happen than an internal infection. I took it out and put it under the microscoop, first soem skin sample, then pieces of the fins and because they are so tiny so the light shines trough at the end the whole fish. Could not find any listed parasites. 

Could find one odd thing at 100 X magn. unfortenately can't go further than that with what i have. It was round like a cirkel, like an egg shell and in it where moving little black pinhead big dots and 1 moving dot outside of it. I took 2 samples and only could find one specimin of this in both. Wasn't listed anywhere, don't know what it was. Flukes should be spoted at 50 x but didn't spot any, not in the sample not on the fish.. Flukes are gone so i think i have to find me some stuff with kanamycin sulphate if i can't find kanaplex in a short term..

The rest still looks ok, but it happend so quick with the other..So can't know what to expect. Did check the water, but that was still ok and did a WC anyway..

Darn


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## sciencefiction

I am very sorry to hear that. The flukes if they had them, may be gone. They may have something else too.
Bacteria won't be visible with the microscope.

Anyway, have a look at these pictorial guides. There are microscopic pictures of different parasites, see if you find the one you saw. There are other links with more info but can't find them right now.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/topic_series_common_freshwater_fish_parasites


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## zozo

Thanks! Great web site, the one i knew had more dead links then good ones. Hail to the internet.  I wasn''t expecting to find any skin parasites, cause the flashing and scratching stoped. The wounded one was the first i noticed doing it, it wounded itself rather nasty. The rest looks better 2 of them still have a blury eye... I ordered me a portion of the kanaplex in the states via ebay, hope to get it in a week. I'm going ask my vet tomorow, i found out via a koi breeder that they should have kanamycin sulfate, as antibiotics for cats and dogs, but maybe not in liquid form, i give him a call anyway. In the aquarium shops it's not available over here.  

The thing i found on it's skin was a strange one, don't even know if it is a parasite, see if i can find it back. Pitty my oldtimer stops at a 100x, should get me a digital one...


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## zozo

It was a Single Coccus i saw. Spherical Bacterium..
Looked like a post one as in the image.. The dots inside where moving around, like in robotic movement. I saw one dot outside moving the same way.




Now find out what kind of cocci it could be..from what i understand is that the pathogenic cocci's almost always occur in clusters or strings.. This one was solo.. The above web site didn't show any, but it's not a parasite.. I couldn't find the right word to search for it.. It was Spherical that did the job..


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## sciencefiction

Well, you lost me there  I wouldn't have an idea really. Not many have that perfect shape though so it maybe possible to find out what it was with a bit of extensive search.  There are also videos on youtube I've seen of people uploading microscopic videos of fish scrapes.
Did you look on the eyes of the fish with the microscope, or the gut?


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## sciencefiction

This page below, if you click on the links they give info for a lot of diseases and at the bottom include microscopic images of them too.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/008/v9551e/V9551E00.htm#TOC


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## zozo

No not the gut, i was out off gloves, didnt want to risk cutting my fingers with that scalp handling 0.75 inch sick fishy. Did look in the eyes, there was nothing much to see. The coc i found on a skin sample. I''ll ask the vet tomorow, gona gif him a visit anyway. Maybe he can tell, before i search for hour, days or weeks.. I guess this picture above are sample (breeding) glasses and not the actual coccus. The coccus are in side the glass. Funny that a coccus looks simular under a scoop.. Haha, didn't notice that before myself...

It looked like E and R 




Thanx for the website again.. Interesting..


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## zozo

Probably found it,



Not the moving one but the dorment one looks verry simular. What i saw didn't realy move like this one and was smaller only what was inside moved. I spook to someone today who recognized the discription and said 85% sure it's a young Trichodina you saw. Recomended a combination of Ethacridine lact. Malachite green and Formalin (Cerpofor® - Alparex®). If i find another dead cory i should bring it to him. To be sure not to do harm i have to wait at least 4 more days before starting the dose because of prazi still in the tank, soil and filter.

The vet i visited said he is no longer allowed to sell antibiotics like kanamicine sulfate.. It's stricktly regulated and the authorities will seize his permit to sell what ever drugs if he gets caught violating this law. Only option is, i'd bring him a fish and he should take a sample and breed it for biotics, if the diagnose is positive he is allowed to discribe the proper drugs. So no go at the vet, the procedure of breeding the biotics is quite expensive and takes longer then waiting for the order from the states.

Now something else.. For anyone living in the Netherlands reading this, ordering Kanamicine in the states is at your own risk. Lately the authorities prohibited the import of antibiotics of any kind. The seller is obligated to write the content on the package. If the customs pay attention they have to seizure the package and can give you a rather high fine violating the drugs regulations.

So be aware, do it at own risk, ask the seller if he's willing not to put any discriptions regarding the content on the package. Maybe it's not that stricktly regulated in the states and is the seller not at all obligated to do that. Dunno.. Will see what happens, might not get the package if the seler did and or maybe get a pretty fine.. Exciting, isn't it!!


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## sciencefiction

Yeah, I thought of trichodina when you said it looked like a circle.
I think it's not unusual to find this one in any tank, when not in it's parasitic "mode".
Antibiotics won't do anything to it.
What you were prescribed to use against this, I would not put in your tank. I'd put the fish in a hospital tank if treating with those meds. Plus, they are toxic to your filter, to inverts and I wouldn't be surprised for corydoras too.  If I were you, I'd do my own research before medicating.


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## sciencefiction

Here is some info on malachite green/formalin combo dose:

*Toxicity*. Malachite green is quite toxic at the inflated levels recommended by its distributors, *especially to fry and to adult tetras, loaches and catfish. *Treated fish clear the drug rather slowly; its metabolites remain in their livers. A US Fish and Wildlife survey  showed that activated carbon had insignificant effect on formalin remaining in water. Together those factors can make a second dosing  more toxic to the fish than the first one. Instead, water changes are needed to reduce the formalin levels.  Formalin is also quite toxic to you. So scrub your fingers before you put them in your mouth.

Soft acidic water renders formalin/malachite green medications more effective, that is, more toxic to parasitic invertebrates but also more toxic to fishes. Use extra caution where pH is below 7.0; be prepared to do an emergency 50% water change at the first hint of distress. In hard water malachite green may go colorless, leading you to think it isn't effective. Malachite green also increases in toxicity at higher temperatures, according to Kordon. I think fishkeepers too casually ignore these variables.

*An antidote.* AmQuel will quickly bind and detoxify malachite green, as well as methylene blue and potassium permanganate.


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## zozo

I was already hesitant myself reading the instructions.. It says it's develop for normal aquariums with a PH of 7 - 7,5 and DH4-8.. If parameters differ, reactions can also differ, use at own risk.. Found that already strange.. The warning chapter is larger then the overall instructions.. It also says we can not garanty its safe in all circumstances, if you notice any strange side effects pleace feel free to contact us.

Why do people recomend things like this as good? Unbelievable.. Always should read the instructions in the shop before desiding to pay.. Lessons learned..

I read good experiences with Parazoryne in combination with Sabbasticum, should both be from a natural herbal extract and 100% safe.. The Parazoryne not a typical medicine nor a parasite killer,  parasites will fall of and as long the stuf is in the tank can't attach again so die off bij starvation. Sabbasticum should help fight off bacterial and fungus infections caused by the parasites. Sounds good.. Yo good to be thrue??

Do you know that stuff?

Nah, this is a bogus fairytale i guess..
https://www.microbelift.com/products/pond-and-water-garden/fish-health/parazoryne/


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## zozo

A salt bath should help too, what i read at http://www.fishnet.org/sick-fish-chart.htm.
Can't harm anyway, so i still have to wait the prazi off i'll see what some (sea) salt will do. And keep searching..


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## sciencefiction

I recall reading about Parazoryne but the other one I've never heard about so can't tell.
I wouldn't get fooled by the "herbal" thing.  It's just marketing and it doesn't mean it's safe for fish. Many meds are derived from natural ingredeints and can be potent.
 Melafix and Primafix are another famous example.. I killed two corys with melafix overnight! I put them in a quarantine tank and dosed melafix. The next day both were dead. You tell me.....I think it was something to do with oxygen and the already weakened state of the two corys...

However, considering the lack of options if one is treating the main tank, maybe I'd chance that Parazoryne. Just observe the fish and if any adverse reactions, remove via water changes.
I am not really sure what's a best method for treating trichodina. It seems that any white spot medications including salt treatments are effective but neither are suitable for corydoras really.

Let me know how you get on with the Parazoryne afterwards. I can't find anything better. Hopefully it works out.


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> A salt bath should help too, what i read at http://www.fishnet.org/sick-fish-chart.htm.
> Can't harm anyway, so i still have to wait the prazi off i'll see what some (sea) salt will do. And keep searching..



Salt is very harsh on corys and can kill them....I really would advise against it. If you do it, do in in a dip only temporary at higher doses to strip the parasites off but don't leave the corys in a salt bath. The recommended dosage to kill trichodina is the same as ich, and that's too high for corydoras.


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## zozo

Thanks SF for standing by with getting those poor things back on track.. Seems a fragile spieces those cory's where ever i read i read fatalities once they show any sign of sicknes. Strange experience though having about 15 years aquarium experience, never had nothing other than white spot in my whole aquarium career.. Now i start again, first thing i get is sick fish in the shop and i'm at a loss. The world back then wasnt as commercial as is now.. Less specailists more salesman. Pitty.. Welcome to the consumers society 2015. (Beam me up Snotty)

Though i did see some aprovment with the Prazi. Seems it slows down the trichodina but doesnt kill them.. The cory's accepted it good.. Maybe i should try a longer prazi bath then the recomenden 6 hours. As you said before 1 week bath prazi? I'll bring that other stuff back tomorow and see what i can find elsewhere..


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> Now i start again, first thing i get is sick fish in the shop and i'm at a loss.



Yep, the more complicated fish keeping became, the more complicated the diseases became. It's probably improper commercial practices creating super bugs over the years.

Fluke Solve, the other praziquantel based med definitely tackles trichodina as well.
With trichodina, you won't kill all of it in a tank. It could be in my tanks too for what I know. It's a pathogenic organism that is otherwise harmless unless fish are very weakened. It could be even secondary to something else.
Those corys came with it so they got invaded because of different factors. With diseases, most of them, you need to boost the immune system of fish with clean water and proper food and knock out as many of the pathogens as possible. Once the fish's immune system overtakes, it fights off the rest. Very few meds kill pathogens 100%, not even bleach does that.

How are your other fish doing? Are the ottos or any other fish showing signs?


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## sciencefiction

If you have time, write an e-mail to Fiona McDonald via the contact's page of fluke solve. She's the one that made the med. She responds pretty quickly and she should be able to confirm if you can tackle trichodina with prazi or her med fluke solve.

http://www.fish-treatment.co.uk/fluke-solve-aquarium.html


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## zozo

sciencefiction said:


> Soft acidic water renders formalin/malachite green medications more effective, that is, more toxic to parasitic invertebrates but also more toxic to fishes. Use extra caution where pH is below 7.0; be prepared to do an emergency 50% water change at the first hint of distress. In hard water malachite green may go colorless, leading you to think it isn't effective. Malachite green also increases in toxicity at higher temperatures, according to Kordon. I think fishkeepers too casually ignore these variables.
> 
> *An antidote.* AmQuel will quickly bind and detoxify malachite green, as well as methylene blue and potassium permanganate.



An article abot cory's with a chapter health managment.
http://treatfish.blogspot.nl/2011/11/seeding-of-corydoras-fish.html
Recomendations


> Treatment for parasitic disease is the use of formalin 25 ppm, 500 ppm of salt.



Its contradictive where ever you look..

Whats the best to do? Wait it out and see which is the strongest and fights it off. (let mother nature decide) or kill your whole tank with trying this and that and such!?


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> Maybe i should try a longer prazi bath then the recomenden 6 hours.


 
Why only 6 hours?
Prazi to be effective is a one week dose or two week dose to be pretty certain it's done all the intended parasites, eggs ,etc... and maybe even a repeat in a week or two. Prazi is pretty safe longer term like this in a tank.  It's also stable in water once dissolved so doesn't need redosing.
I'd leave the fish in prazi for two weeks. I'd still do water changes but redose the prazi for the removed dose.
In that med you used, what are the other active ingredients besides prazi as it could be a different med?
I am talking about prazi on it's own or in the form of "fluke solve" I recommended.


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## zozo

sciencefiction said:


> If you have time, write an e-mail to Fiona McDonald via the contact's page of fluke solve. She's the one that made the med. She responds pretty quickly and she should be able to confirm if you can tackle trichodina with prazi or her med fluke solve.
> 
> http://www.fish-treatment.co.uk/fluke-solve-aquarium.html



Ok! that's a good one. Thanks a million!!


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> Whats the best to do? Wait it out and see which is the strongest and fights it off. (let mother nature decide) or kill your whole tank with trying this and that and such!?


 
Salt wise, it affects different species of corys differently. Some are unaffected by it, some die. It probably depends on their original habitat. Pygmy corys come from soft water so I doubt it they'll do well with salt. The salt won't outright kill them. You'll just find them dead or floating, gasping at the surface unable to osmoregulate after a few days in a high enough salt concentration.

As for formalin, I don't know. I've never touched the thing.


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## zozo

sciencefiction said:


> Why only 6 hours?
> Prazi to be effective is a one week dose or two week dose to be pretty certain it's done all the intended parasites, eggs ,etc... and maybe even a repeat in a week or two. Prazi is pretty safe longer term like this in a tank.  It's also stable in water once dissolved so doesn't need redosing.
> I'd leave the fish in prazi for two weeks. I'd still do water changes but redose the prazi for the removed dose.
> In that med you used, what are the other active ingredients besides prazi as it could be a different med?
> I am talking about prazi on it's own or in the form of "fluke solve" I recommended.



It's in the brochure of the Sera TremaEx, 50% WC, 6 hour TremaEx, 50% WC, filter carbon.. Repeat every 3 weeks.. Thats what they make of it..

It's only prazi 40mg/ml

Ill go for a longer term prazi treath.. And email that lady..


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## sciencefiction

Well, the repeat is for killing the newly hatched flukes....Normally prazi kills all adult flukes pretty fast but if it's trichodina....maybe not...
I asked Fiona McDonald once (I hope I have her name right) for the recommended prazi treatment for flukes and other trematodes.  She said 2 weeks full dose concentration of fluke solve to kill all parasites.  So I'd go by that as she's a fish vet. But she spoke about her own med fluke solve. See what she says about trichodina and fluke solve and let me know please as I am now curious.


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## zozo

If i'll get an answer i'll surely will share that..  and if the prazi doesn't hurt and just slows those sucker down for the comming 2 weeks we are happy.. At least a little bit for the cory's the most.

And i realy feel like going back to the shop where i got them.. And if i still see them sick in the display tank for sale i write a nice article about him too..

Btw you got the name right.. First hit with name and fish
http://www.fish-treatment.co.uk/company.html


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## zozo

I droped them a line..


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## zozo

sciencefiction said:


> Yep, the more complicated fish keeping became, the more complicated the diseases became. It's probably improper commercial practices creating super bugs over the years.
> 
> 
> How are your other fish doing? Are the ottos or any other fish showing signs?



What can i say!? like the wounded Cory that died.. It looked like it showed improvment, in the morning still looking vibrent and playfull even with that red patch on his side. And all of a sudden a few hours later i see it spinning up and down from the bottom to the surface and dying a half hour later. Like a sudden heart attack or brain damage who knows, could be the stress and one itch to far.

The other fish, the Oto's and Amber tetras are looking good, showing no sign of distress and are all accounted for. Even the shrimps look very good.

Now there are 8 corys left, i see one with a rather strange (that gray blue) glow on one side of it's body where the grey eye is. Also with a very small red patch, i guess thats where it scratched a monster off. Sometimes its just laying on its side looking like it has difficulty to breath. Now there is new prazi in the tank it looks more at ease and comming back to live more often and doesn't flash and scratch anymore. I try to catch that little fellows behaivor on video when i see it doing things near the glass. Maybe a good reference for other pygmea cory owners to recognize problems like this sooner. They are so tiny owners should realy observe them realy often and realy close. I notice that the dimmed lights i use all night long is helping a great deal in that. The strange body glow and glow in their eyes reveales the way this monster sickens them. By fully lit tank it doesn't realy show that good and easy to overlook.

Its also a bit typical cory behaivor to be buzzy and playfull at one time and other times just laying around being lazy doing nothing. But with the others i dont notice the heavy breathing when being lazy. So i have to be carefull not to get jumpy and panic seeing sick fish everywhere when they are just resting and see my tank explode whit growing monsters out of it. Haha.


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## sciencefiction

The laboured breathing could be because it's affecting the gills somehow.

Here is a study below done on carp, tilapia(not exactly tropical) but prazi was used against flukes, epistylus and trichodina.
According to their study, 7.5-10mg/l praziquantel exposure for 3 hours resulted in non-motile trichodina and it was then expelled by the fish naturally, resulting in 100% clean.  A lower dose only reduced the number but didn't eliminate them from the fish.
The same was shown for flukes, higher doses of 7.5-10ml exposure for 24-48 hours eliminated all flukes, lower exposure only reduced them.

Here is the study done if you fancy reading:

http://www.vnua.edu.vn:85/tc_khktnn/Upload\2102014-tc so 5 11.pdf


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## zozo

Thanks i love reading stuff like that. I like bioligy since childhood.. Actualy hence it was due to family bussiness that i went on as technician, else i would have been a biologist or something. 

So on tropical fish a 6 hour bath will make them non-motile as well, else i couldnt have found one on the cory.. I think Sera isn't researching and developping either as serious as the want us to believe. Whit their bogus recomendations.. Actualy the perscribe an other drugs for Trichodina and a dangerous one though..

Here is the reply from Dr. Fiona 


> *Dear Marcel,
> 
> Thank you for your enquiry.
> 
> The product I would recommend is Fluke-Solve, which contains praziquantel. I note you have already used praziquantel, but it should be used according to our label recommendations which would mean that the active will be in the water for at least 3 weeks. 6 hours would not be long enough to achieve complete removal of this parasite.
> 
> It is filter safe as well as shrimp and snail safe.
> 
> Please make sure there are no other chemicals in the tank water before you use the Fluke-Solve.
> 
> The Fluke-Solve Aquarium pack is specially designed for small tanks and comes with a measuring scoop to assist in the correct dosage.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any further questions.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Dr Fiona Macdonald BVMS MRCVS
> Managing Director
> www.fish-treatment.co.uk*



So ill order me the fluke-solve today.. I see another cory dying on me today, still alive and swimming but also laying on his back sometimes. Must be the stress.. God knows how long these poor things where sick in the shop or even before that. The move to my tank possibly triggert the breaktrough. As far as i can judge it about their looks i risk 3 more dying this week. They have to do with only this prazi bath till the fluke-solve arives.

Thanks a million again SF for thinking with me and guiding me in the correct direction. Very appriciated!


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## sciencefiction

It's no problem at all. I will be delighted if all the rest of the corys pull trough. Fingers crossed you save as many as you can. Some of them could be too far gone and irreversible damage done and you are doing the best these fish would have got considering the condition in which you got them. I was reading trichodina does affect the gills of small fish and it's harder for medication to get in there normally so the worst affected....
Maybe a dip with a higher dose of prazi for a few hours in a clean container for the worst affected.... but it could be too stressful for the fish....


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## zozo

Actualy all this tends me to think  What the hell am i doing? Why dont i just leave these lovely tiny creatures where they belong? In South America!..  And just stick with the plants.. I'll guess thats what i''ll do for the future.. For the same reason i stoped angling as a sport years ago, because their is nothing sportive about it when you don't do it to catch food. I guess wisdom only comes with the years and some sorrows..

Since i have now what i got.. I only can be the best father i can be...


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## sciencefiction

Don't get discouraged. These things happen and it's not like you fished the corys yourself out of South America.


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## zozo

No it's not that  i had pets dying before (of old age) it's just the ignorance of the majority that makes other people think they are dealing with commercial products instead of living creatures with feelings. I didn't fish them out of south America, i ask somebody uncappable to fish them out of a tank for me so i can take them home, don't know what happend before that.. And this probably happend to them several times before they ended up in my tank. Hence they are stressed, i would be too. And all the big boys, i mean those large multinational petshops wallmarts etc. taking over the market and distroying all small enthousiastic and specialized small shops, they almost all are gone because they cant compete with the big boys.And there we are being served by cheap labor with some affinities. At least that is how it works around here, only can speak for that.. Sera doesnt give a flying figure as long as they sell they sell you crap only to make you buy more crap.. Thats why i'm building so far as i can everything myself around my tank. They get ZIP from me if i can do it myself.. It's a pitty i can't make the fish myself. 

Take for example the gold fish, that's the most misunderstood animal in the world.. Millions and millions go down the drain each year, just like that. Like it is fun to do..

I was just thinking out loud and sharing a thought and a feeling.. And can't help feeling little responsable as well.. The authorities should do that, but nobody seems to be able to make them understand, they also are to bussy counting money. I hope our children do a better job and that is again our job. Teaching them not to be ignorant and above all do not lie to yourself. That's the most distructive thing you can do. 

Signed Donkey jote. 

BTW im proud to be a UKAPS member, you guys are OK!!


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## zozo

Another one died yesterday  this one


Here you clearly see the eratic swim movements like its capsizing all the time.. It swims like it's laying around, on its side. Makes strange loops and gasps for air all the time. Healthy corys also like to lay around being lazy, but you wont see the gills move and always lay straight with there little fins standing proud.
If you look realy closely, you can see the bite marks of the trichodina like very light neon like blueish spots on their side. Even if they apair healthy i guess thats an early sign.
.
Latter also the belly will look slightly swollen and gets the same blueish color shine it can be most likely only one side is infected. This you will see much clearer in dimmed light. When the infection already has affected the eye, so it becomes grey like in the picture above, there is litlle hope of recovery.

For a Pygmea Cory those Trichodina's are realy dangerous vampires, they cant survive them for long.. Please be very carefull with them.. And if you ever see them in a shop packed in a small tank with other nerveous fish, so they get stressed and suscaptible for infection because of that.. Kick the managers bottoms, call the WSPA walk out and never look back.


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## sciencefiction

Poor corys.
Are they being medicated now with prazi or are you waiting for the fluke solve?

If you think any of them are dying, you could still try dipping it in a tank water dosed malachite green/formalin combo as a last resort for a minute or two only,  to get the parasites off. I am not sure what the dosage and duration would be.  Or in a stronger solution of praziquantel as per the scientific article.  That may either kill the cory faster from the stress or possibly help. The prazi may not be fast enough for heavily infested fish with weak immune system.

Other then that, the corys do die like that, losing balance at the end, laying on their sides regardless of what's causing it.  That cory certainly seems in distress, probably breathing issues as a consequence. .It must be really horrible watching them drop off like flies like that.


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## zozo

Yup they are on a long term prazi bath, just as Dr. Fiona advised it looks like its helping.. Still waiting on the fluke solve to arive.. I did bring that Colombo stuff back and told the seller Colombo can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I told him to take a look at Dr. Fiona's products, but as i expected again i ran into ignorance, he said that Colombo stuff is also developed by a fish Dr. So and So. And the warning in the instructions is nothing but jurisprudence and was certain that if Fluke Solve was on the Dutch market it would need about the same content in the user manual as Colombos stuff. Blablabla he using that Colombo stuff for ages on his ponds and never had a negative review from his customers. Unbelievable, hes a nice knowledgable guy but still ignorant and feeling pinched in the bottoms ofcourse by my findings against his advice, like he and his costumers have ponds full of corys and tetras. Never mind!! Have a nice day, todeloo!!! Lots of people cant make the difference anymore between positive feedback and critics and instantly feel and act like they have to defend.

I'll stick with that for now and not going to fiddle around with them, they are just to easily stressed. In this state they are in, chasing them around and dipping them in all kind of stuf will only make it worse then better.. I'm trying things, like Daphnia, White Moscito, Arthemia and blood worm, They ignore the first three but i finaly got them to eat good on blood worms, the whole tank seems to like it and goes frenzy on it, that kinda triggers them to come to the party as well. I see no more pinched fins and only one of them still breathing a bit heavy but kinda holding on and also joining and eating .

It is indeed horrible to watch all the time and the thing is, this tank is so young i have to spend a few hours a day to help it mature and fight things off. If i walk away for a week just not to have to watch it.. The tank will be ruined. I did put some plants in there with hair algea on it, i knew wath i was doing and knew this is going to be a nice batlle, which i can win, but it will take work and dailly dedication hunting that stuff down to help the plants fight it off. So the down side now is, i see those little corys struglle all the time in front of my eyes, it sometimes just gets to me looking at it and can do much about it. The powerless rage, sometimes..

Seems like Sera is using alcohol to delute the prazi, when i administered the second dose of prazi i saw a huge bacterial bloom developing, That was crazy i saw patches of green algea on the wood, the ones that normaly give it a nice patina realy starting to shine flouresent green. I thought omg what is happening to me? This cant be true, its going to become a total disaster if it goes on like this. Did a 25% water change and luckily at all settled down again and is back to normal. Pfew.. Have to go trough some more WC before i can put the fluke solve in i guess ill get in a couple of days the tank will be ready for that by then.


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## sciencefiction

You know, some fish can be too long gone and can't recover always even with the right treatment.
When you got them they were already heavily infested and these things could have affected a number of places inside the fish depending on the progress of the disease.

Yes, most prazi meds use some sort of alcohol to help the prazi dissolve. There's a proper name but I can't remember.  Fluke solve is friendlier stuff.
Water changes are good. They'll remove most parasites from the water column and filter and substrate when you do cleanings so the fish don't get an overload.
I'd do bigger than 25% water changes, 50% at a time if possible.


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## zozo

That's what i've seen with the first 2 dying, first they show improvement and died anyway during that... So still i see improvements by the other right now.. Better appetite even better skin, fins standing up. But i realy can not judge from that if they will make it.. I expect at least 2 more to go, since they have the eye infected, altough i see one even with slight improvent in its eye color, the black is starting to shine trough again.. All i can do is wait and see..
I choose for a more freqeunt 25% WC because i possibly need the prazi in there somewhat and need to have it out before i put the fluke solve in. If i would do 50% i probably have to add more prazi (+more alcohol - im afraid to get a green drunken sailor again you know.) after that and wait it out. Thats why i go for a 25% every 3 days thats about 12 days for a 100% and by than ill have the fluke solve.

I discussed this also with Fiona, she assured me the Fluke Solve is powder based and has no other ingredients with side effects. Its 50% Prazi and since it isn't pattented yet 50% secrets. Which i can understand, thrust here completely and don't have to know now. btw thanks for putting me in touch with here. She seems a very honest person and gives proper advise without giving the feeling that she does it by expedience, lovely woman. Asked here to merry me, but no go, i have the wrong fish probably.. lol


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## sciencefiction

See the problem is you need the concentration of prazi to be the recommended one all the time if you want it to be effective. Otherwise you could be creating resistant parasites and not helping the fish and thus prazi will render ineffective.
I honestly wouldn't worry about the algae right now but it's your tank of course.  That can be sorted afterwards I would think. 
Or if you don't want to treat the tank, setup a second tank where you can dose properly.


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## zozo

I know what you mean  but i dont see it so drastic that those beasts get resistant in a few days. Fiona shipped the med last wednesday. I had a prazi threat about 2 days before that for 6  hours with a 50% wc after that, so there still was 50% prazi in the tank. When Fiona said do a long term bath i did put in to much because in all the fuz i didn't take the first dose in account. I guess the bloom was because of a slight overdose. There for i did a 25% wc straight after that.. Not for the darn algea, but still it was a scary look to see a bacto bloom so quick and heavily comming up in a few hours. 

And since we have the tunnel now UK isn't the end of the world anymore. I'll guess its here by monday. I order sometimes from Banggood and they have a UK warehouse, this is always delivered in less than a week also. And i have to have the Prazi out as much as possible by than. Thats one WC today and one more 50% monday at least thuesday before the Fluke Solve goes in. Any other way all that drastic fiddling with and in the tank doesnt do the other fish no good as well, they will get stressed to and since infections like this are commenly stress related. I olso got 7 Otos which are known to be very easily stressed and die off it. And 11 skittish amber tetra's. Whit all i have done by now 2 corys died anyway.. I hope my head doesnt explode before i get that stuff..

And as you said it's quite commen to have inactive trichodina in lots of tanks, as long as the fish are strong and healthy they fight it off them selfs. The others still do very fine and show no signs of anything out of the ordenary.


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## zozo

The Fluke Solve arrived this morning and the Kanaplex arived yesterday  administered already the first dose Fluke solve.. 7 of the 9 Cory's are still alive, 3 of them are not in the best shape and have the eyes infected, 1 is still looking the worst and pale. But all are still eating and holding on till now. The Fluke solve discription says at least a 24 hour treatment. It's a powder type medicine, it comes in a sachet of 10 grams with a 1 gram 2,5ml scoop, for 250 liter. With my 43 liters i need 1/5 the dose, used a 5ml laboratory measure cilinder to measure a tiny bit less then 0,5 ml. I leave it in there for a couple of weeks as adviced. And have to make a stock solution from 0.5 ml powder to level te dose back after the weekly 25% WC. After that i will give them a kanaplex treatment in case there are some internal or external bacterial infections because of the wounds. Good thing that still since it is prohibited to import antibiotics the customs didn't notice and i received the Kanaplex so fast from the states.

Nice to have it in my aquarium med case.. after this incident taking place after a fresh start it feld like a sudden dip in the deep, feels good to be prepared for the coming 3 years or to be able to help somebody in the same position. Lets hope not and i have to throw it away instead after the exp. date..

Thanks again Science Fiction for all the given good advice!!


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## sciencefiction

Let's hope they recover completely with the prolonged treatment.
If you decide to treat with antibacterial afterwards, make sure all the prazi is gone out completely but not before the full course of treatment maintaining the recommended dosage. A bit extra of this particular med is better than a bit lower.
Carbon also should help with removal along with water changes to get it out faster.

 Otherwise, I think it's recommended to wait at least a couple of weeks after a fluke solve treatment before treating with any other meds.
And whether you treat with antibacterial or not will all depend whether you see full recovery or not during the next few weeks with fluke solve. The cloudy eye could be a bacterial infection going on at the same time. If that stays the same and fish have gone fine through the fluke solve, then if it were me I'd probably give a shot to the kanaplex too eventually.

Also, hopefully it doesn't happen, but if a cory dies, I'd test under the microscope again, especially the affected areas. Some parasites are topical and won't be caught from all over the body.  It's not uncommon for fish to have multiple parasite infections at the same time, especially those that come from who knows what environment...

But fingers crossed, it goes away with the fluke solve soon. It's not a bad sign that 7 are still going. I am sure that those that were still left in the shop are probably dead by now.


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## zozo

Already got a box of carbon standing ready , as fiona recomended a longer term prazi bath which they now already had for then days i guess a 10 more days with fluke solve would be sufficient to kill all flukes and worms. She said that prazi will stay at least 3 weeks in the tank after stopping the threatment, so i have to wait that out anyway, before loading them with the Kana.

Till now they are holding on very good as far i can judge.. That's the hardest part, judging fish only by their behaivor, it's easy to say "Oh they are doing fine.." but can't realy know what's going on in there. If the treatment helps or only will prolonge their suffering. Only can wait and see.. 4 of them still look pretty healthy from the start, they are the strongest i hope they pull the other 3 trough with triggering them to join the dinner table as well and gather strenght again. I kinda see them pack together when it's feeding time. So thats looks like a good thing.

I'll keep you updated.. 

I think also that the ones left in the shop are long gone by know, maybe he made a nice profit as well selling meds to unknowing customers.. I never set a foot in that shop again and tell everybody i know not to do so if they love their animals and want to spent money on them. Not to spent it on that criminal idiot...


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## sciencefiction

If they are feeding, it's a good sign that they can still recover. Fish gone beyond treatment don't normally feed anymore. So there's still hope for these 3.

I'd keep the prazi as long as she suggested. You didn't maintain the higher dose for the previous period of time so I wouldn't count that period for much. You need to knock out that parasite for good this time to make sure. Then move on once you are sure the previous treatment is done as it should have.
It's not just about the duration, it's about the active dose at any given time. Any lowering the dose gave chance to the parasite to re-multiply and even get immune.


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## sciencefiction

How are they getting on? Any change either way, worse or bad or steady same?


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## zozo

They are still holding on and i guess making progress, i see them more often. . Yesterday i saw all 7 of  them for the first time scholing together, that was nice to see, usealy they go around in pairs or trios and hiding a lot. And i have to search the whole tank and all tiny corners, don't want dead fish laying around. One of theme, remarkable enough the most active of them, feeding well and digging his head all the time in the soil, no hanging fins, has faded its colors, like its turning Albino.. Both eyes where like gone and the black stripe also nearly gone and looking rather almost transparant.. But this morning it seems getting a bit color back again even in it eyes. It's so active it's hard to get a good picture of it.



There is an other one with just one side of his body infected and also a grey eye, acting normal, feeding and all still does a little scratching some times, but not all the time.

Maybe it's like how it works whit us humans, being irrtated by the created antibodys when we are healing from sicknes ot wounds.. The fluke solve seems to solve something. Already more active in the 4th day of treatment..

Thanks for asking..


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## sciencefiction

The fading is some sort of stress. Hopefully it gets back the colour.
All you can do now is wait. Fingers crossed.


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## zozo

I know and the strange thing is, he doesn't act stressed at all, he's active, scholing with the tetra's, feeding, digging. like nothing is bothering him.. But looks more dead than alive..
We shall see if he will make it.. I hope so..


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## sciencefiction

It's odd. I don't know why he would pale out like this. But if he's active then hopefully it's nothing to worry about.


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## zozo

I guess so, i call him Quasy Cory if he stays like that..


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## zozo

Found a nice read on Praziquantel.. 
http://www.vnua.edu.vn:85/tc_khktnn/Upload\2102014-tc so 5 11.pdf

Seems to be effective fore a number of flukes and parasites, depending on the mg/l dose, duration of treatment and type of parasite. Trichodina was indeed the most resistant and needed the highest dose and longest treatment but finaly was killed off by it.

Also i still wonder why other well known producers do recomend other not so safe medications for parasites which are easily killed of by a known and positively tested safe product. Rather very strange.. Stocks and shares?

Also this report states that Dr. Bayer delutes Praziquantel in Ethanol (Tadaa!) hence the bacterial bloom i experienced.. Anyway i guess its that, because i've red so often people putting vodka in the aquarium for some reasons and experiencing a bacto bloom as well. So don't buy German produced Liquid Praziquantel. they buy it from German Dr. Bayer of course and so you get the Ethanol stuff.


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## sciencefiction

That's the same one I linked earlier I think.
I hope the fish are doing ok. How is the pale one?
If the cloudy eyes are not gone by the end of the treatment, I'd probably give them a break and then try the kanamycin.


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## zozo

Yes it is indeed the same one.. Now that's stupid! Most have overlooked it in all the hassle.. Sorry bout that..
The pale one is still as pale as a ghost, both eyes are of a strange color. 1 eye is darker greyish then before the other one has a a red glow in it's iris. There is changing someting that's obvious. He seems to fluctuate his color, one day he's almost completely white and the other day his black stripe comes back and the day after that it can be gone again. But he behaives normal, like the rest.. Although yesterday i saw him scratch a little again against a stone.. But that's just that one time for a 30 seconds and went on his way again. He still must be irritated sometimes by somewhat. Possibly the wounds are itchy and hopfully healing. Actualy i didn't gave him that long, but hes hanging in there..

This is the last week in the fluke solve treatment.. And indeed after that i'm gone a filter a while on carbon to get it out, see how it goes and got the kanacime ready if needed..


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## sciencefiction

Hey, any progress with the fish? I hope they are well and recovering.


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## zozo

Good Murning! Yes! In fact (word play) They are doing good. All 7 still there even the three i gave up hope for seem to be back in the game. I see no more flashing, no more pinched fins, no more side swimming, the blueish shine is gone and more active scholing together, more interacting and feeding very good. Even the pale one is slowly recovering his color and is the most active of them all. Like he needs to food the most to gather strenght. That's lovely to see.  I was doing lots of cleaning and water changes lately and i stopped that now for the last 4 days. So i guess its also the peace and quite now doing them better. In such a small tank doing lots of wc is always an impact with that big ugly monster taking allmost all the water out with a big dangerous sucking hose. The Prazi treat will end next wensday, then i do a WC and a carbon treat for a few days. And see how it goes, the blurry eyes are still there a bit but showing some more coloration than before. I'll give them a week more rest and a close eye to see if i do a Kanamycime treat after that. 

Thanks for asking..


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## sciencefiction

Ah, nice. That's really good news.


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## sciencefiction

Hey Zozo. How are the fish getting on?
I am sorry if I am a bit demanding and it's been just me and you in this thread but I am sure we all want to know what's happening. I hope lack of news is good news


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## zozo

No man! Don't think that, you were a great help.. Showing interest is never demanding, not in my world anyways.  Thank you for doing so..  Never mind the poeple who make you think or feel that way, it says more about them than it says about you. And indeed in this case no news is good news.. All 7 cory's still doing great as all others do as well. So the infection didn't jump and looks gone. The fluke solve did the job. Fortunately and finaly me and my sciccors can focus on the algae boom now. And that's what's going on right now in my tank. The 3 cory's with the blury eye(s) still got my attention, they slowly getting some color back in there. Also the pale one seems to be slowely flourishing to good health again. I'll post you a picture of him/her tomorow.  They are on a good healthy daily diet of Blood wurm, white mosquito larvae, daphnia and artemia and seem to like it very much and feeding well. So i don't think (hope) there is a bacterial issue and the Kana isn't necessary, but if so, i got it. Thanks to you, my friend! 

I think we did it and those little fellows can go and live a happy life now. I have high hopes, but still don't want to party to soon.


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## alto

Great update 
I've been wondering too


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## zozo

Here it is 

And realy improving, slowly getting color back and even his eyes are slowly returning. I can see a tiny dot now i guess it's the iris.. What i love about this little fellow, his favorite spot is where  this vid is shot almost all day long. The most active off all, when the others are gathering, hiding and resting in the back, this one doesnt mind he keeps on foraging on his own till the other return to keep him company. I think he needs it and is doing what his body is telling him to do, eat and get strong. I hope it keeps going like that. You never know, since a saw one looking more healthy freak out and die in less than an hour time..


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## sciencefiction

He certainly acts like a normal healthy cory and the colour is better than the last time I saw him.
I am really glad.


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## zozo

It's almost day 10 after the Prazi treatment.. And here is another hd video of my little problem child. Munching his bloodworm..


I think it is stone blind, it doesn't mind me at all.. Actualy it's alway alone others visit him once in a while, but doesn't happen other way around.
The others which still are able to see i don't get that close up to with the camera. They move when i come to close to the glass.
Healthy eyes look different, the damaged eyes of this one and the 2 others having it in 1 eye look like sucked empty. Healthy fish eyes bulge out a bit, and this looks totaly flat. Maybe it;s pale because it's blind.

Further i only see improvments in behaivor and putting on weight, no sign of infection what so ever. I guess if there was a simultanious bacterial infection with the Trichodina it would have shown by now.


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## sciencefiction

Poor thing. You can't see where his eyes are. I think that as long as you are able to feed him he should be fine.
Yes, his colour could be because of the stress that he can't see around him. But corys seem to have a pretty good "nose"


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## zozo

Yup when i feed bloodwurms, which the cory's like the most i drop a few around this one so he doesn't have to search to much and far, and it works all the time. This wurm he devoured in less than 3 minutes. But he seems to find his way around.. He only doesn't find his mates, so he's alone most of the time. Stays on the bottom and gulps once in a while. Doesn't interact with his suroundings like the others do. But he seems to be a little surviver and holding on..


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## zozo

10 more days further on, after the treatment and all is still fine, all 7 cory's surviving the ordeal whit that sucker all do great. Little pale Cave Cory lost both eyes for ever i guess. He must be thinking why i'm in this dark hole all the time? And this seems to take away his color. But it's behavior is only improving, it's active, eats whatever  i serve on his dinner plate, and is putting on weight. When it feels like swimming it cruises around the tank like nothing is wrong. Never bumbs into things it's lateral line senses everything perfectly. The only thing i kinda feel sorry for is that sometimes the others want to interact, like when 3 others of them together visit him like they are saying "Common swim and play with us" it just doesn't realy notice and goes his own way. Also the once that lost one eye didn't got it back, so a Trichodina definitively sucks them out and can make tiny fish like that definitively blind.

1 more reason to watch your tiny nano critters even more closely.

Anyway!! I would like for my 7 little Cory to sing togheter in chorus
_*
"Thanks again uncle Science Fiction for all the good advice and helping us survive! We did it!!"*_


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## darren636

This a a very informative thread.
Thanks for sharing.


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## zozo

That Fluke Solve stuff is realy OK!! All Cory's still roaming the tank as healthy as can be. Even little blind and pale cave cory is around..


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