# Cyno question again (Non scientific mind.😂)



## Fish are friends (4 Nov 2021)

I’ve been reading the posts on cyno and the possible causes but I cant seem to work out a definitive cause or solution. (Science and the related jargon elude my simple brain) 4 of our newer tanks have a cyno issue. they all have the same water source and the same lighting, fluval aquasky. None of the other 6 tanks with different lighting, have cyno issue. from what I was able to understand is the cyno is an imbalance in nutrient Uptake by plants, but the fact it’s only the tanks with the fluval light might have something to do with the spectrum used. Would changing the light help or dosing ferts? What plants could help in reducing the existence of BGA.


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## Keys_Tanks (4 Nov 2021)

Hi All, 

There is loads of possible causes I think, one that i found myself. was being inconsistent with Maintenance practices. i.e. WC day same day every week and same percentage. this is to help keep the tank from fluctuating in organics levels. 
making sure you have good circulation etc.

Cheers 
Josh 




Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## GTomas (4 Nov 2021)

As said by Josh, there is many possible causes. Some of the most common ones are from my experience poor flow/circulation and lower oxygen levels in the tank. 

Cheers 
Tom


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## Fish are friends (4 Nov 2021)

saying that, 3 of the tanks are betta tanks with small HoB filters or a bubble filter and the other is a shrimp tank. Might look into slightly better filters first.


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## dw1305 (4 Nov 2021)

Hi all, 


Fish are friends said:


> What plants could help in reducing the existence of BGA.


You could try Hornwort (_Ceratophyllum demersum_), it is meant to deter the <"growth of cyanobacteria (BGA) via allelopathy">.  I'm agnostic about its allelopathic effects, but <"I like it as a plant"> and have it in all the tanks where the water is hard enough. 


Fish are friends said:


> Would changing the light help or dosing ferts?


I don't think that changing the light would help, <"*all photosynthetic organisms* contain chlorophyll a"> as their primary light intercepting molecule. 

I just think about all the <"cyanobacteria, algae, mosses, ferns and higher plants as "plants">, then we just have the <"_plants you want_"> and the <"_plants you don't want_"> and there are both "algae" and "higher plants" in both categories.  

Feeding <"definitely will help">, active plant growth is the single best thing you can have for tank health. I use the <"health and growth rate of a floating plant"> as an indication of when to add fertilisers, others will add some <"proportion of EI"> dosing on a regular basis. I don't think it matters which technique you use, whatever is easiest for you. 

cheers Darrel


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## PARAGUAY (4 Nov 2021)

I do think as well as mentioned w/c maintenance etc fast  growing stem plants will help. As well as hornwort there is Egeria ,hygro species . I noticed on one of MD Fish Tanks it broke out on a tank slightly neglected . Got under control with a good clean and w/c. I think just my opinion it becomes a problem if not dealt with early enough


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## ceg4048 (6 Nov 2021)

Fish are friends said:


> I’ve been reading the posts on cyno and the possible causes but I cant seem to work out a definitive cause or solution. (Science and the related jargon elude my simple brain) 4 of our newer tanks have a cyno issue. they all have the same water source and the same lighting, fluval aquasky. None of the other 6 tanks with different lighting, have cyno issue. from what I was able to understand is the cyno is an imbalance in nutrient Uptake by plants, but the fact it’s only the tanks with the fluval light might have something to do with the spectrum used. Would changing the light help or dosing ferts? What plants could help in reducing the existence of BGA.


BGA is primarily associated with poor nitrate levels.
You have not stated exactly what steps you have taken.
Is this a CO2 injected tank? If so step number 1 is to add more KNO3.
Light bulb type has nothing to do with BGA unless you have too many bulbs.
Initiate frequent and large water changes and physically remove the BGA.

Cheers,


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## Fish are friends (7 Nov 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> BGA is primarily associated with poor nitrate levels.
> You have not stated exactly what steps you have taken.
> Is this a CO2 injected tank? If so step number 1 is to add more KNO3.
> Light bulb type has nothing to do with BGA unless you have too many bulbs.
> Initiate frequent and large water changes and physically remove the BGA.


the tanks in question are betta tanks, so low flow tanks and a shrimp tank, again a small HoB filter So low flow. my tap water has high nitrates in it (40 -50 ppm) the main steps I’ve take are to do a larger weekly water changes and use an airline hose to manually remove the BGA. The shrimp tank is co2 injected but the betta tanks aren’t. I’ll add some KNO3 to the tank in small doses and see how it goes. The other tanks are getting upgraded to a larger partitioned tank with a full length spray bar to help with flow.


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## ceg4048 (7 Nov 2021)

Stan510 said:


> Well,no it's not incorrect.  Even Amano's ADA has had outbreaks to the point they recommend some anti bacterial powder they sell to kill it off. Even the Lisbon tank had an algae outbreak when first set up,and that only went away when they REDUCED the amount of lighting. Ask Felipe Oliveira.
> So lighting adjustments can be a cure.
> If water changes cured BGA..it wouldn't even be a topic anymore.


Even if antibiotics remove the BGA it still does not reveal root cause. One of the causes of BGA is a high NH3/NH4 loading rate. Their Aquasoil is very high in Ammonium Nitrate, which does result in a high buildup unless frequent water changes are performed. This buildup is also present in tanks with dirty filters and this is why cleaning the filters and frequent water changes helps to alleviate the problem. Lighting reduction always helps to arrest algal blooms. This is not a surprise.

Cheers,


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## Onoma1 (8 Nov 2021)

You asked: What plants could help in reducing the existence of BGA

My response would be to add floating plants...lots of them. They will suck up any excess nutrients, help balance the tank and reduce the intensity of your light. With easy access to co2 they will grow faster than stems. Allied with spot dosing of hydrogen peroxide at 6% on affected areas and weekly water changes you should sort the issue out.

My personal stance is (in my larger tank) to take a more ecological approach with a diverse community of fish and invertebrates recognising that a bit of algae isn't the end of the world, it's an essential part of any aquatic environment. The key is to support plants to out compete it and accept that it will be present in some form at some time in your tanks.


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## jaypeecee (21 Nov 2021)

Hi @Fish are friends 

Eighteen months ago, I began an in-depth investigation to try to identify the factors that contribute to the growth of Cyanobacteria. I don't claim to have solved this mystery but I have a far better idea of what some of these factors are. Here is a list (in no particular order):

1 Water pH - scientific research has demonstrated that Cyano prefer alkaline water. This is because they prefer to use carbonates and bicarbonates as a source of carbon, not CO2.

2 The water nitrate to phosphate _ratio_ is very important. I recently eliminated Cyano from one of my tanks by allowing phosphate to be completely exhausted. There was no livestock in this tank and some plants suffered as a consequence. Completely eliminating one of the plant nutrients would be bound to have this effect. Having resumed addition of phosphate, the plants are now recovering.

3 Cyano are susceptible to the effects of what are known as oxidizing agents but caution must be exercised if using these compounds.

4 Cyano need iron and are equipped with 'machinery' to enable them to extract this from the aquarium.

The list goes on.

Dependent on how far the Cyano has progressed in your tank(s), I have found Easy-Life _Blue Exit_ to be effective. Please supply a photo so that we can see what challenge lies ahead.

Please take a look at the following link:






						Cyanobacteria Identification - At Last!
					

Hi Folks,  Like many other aquarists, I have had cyanobacteria (aka 'BGA') grow in my tanks. And I started reading about this stuff. Of course, I initially thought BGA was algae. Why else would it be known as BGA (Blue-Green Algae)? But I later discovered that it's not an algae at all. It's a...



					www.ukaps.org
				




Now, I'm very much aware that some people will dismiss everything I've said above. But, if the Moderators are in agreement, I am happy to continue this topic by PM.

JPC


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## PARAGUAY (22 Nov 2021)

I would not be knowledgeable to dismiss anything but relationship of nitrates to phosphates is one l have read a few times


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## dw1305 (22 Nov 2021)

Hi all,
There are cyanobacteria spp. that occur in <"low nutrient, acidic conditions">, mainly because, like diatoms, cyanobacteria are pretty much universal anywhere there is liquid water and light.

Other than in the <"lock-down lab. tanks"> I don't have visible cyanobacteria in the tanks, and they would all be <"fairly nutrient poor">.


jaypeecee said:


> I recently eliminated Cyano from one of my tanks by allowing phosphate to be completely exhausted.





jaypeecee said:


> Water pH - scientific research has demonstrated that Cyano prefer alkaline water.


Entirely anecdotal, but cyanobacteria are really common in the <"later stages of sewage treatment">, where you would have alkaline water with large amounts of nutrients.

Romanis, C., Pearson, A. & Neilan, B. (2021)
<"Cyanobacterial blooms in wastewater treatment facilities: Significance and emerging monitoring strategies"> _J. Microbiol. Methods_ *180.*


> Municipal wastewater treatment facilities (WWTFs) are prone to the proliferation of cyanobacterial species which thrive in stable, nutrient-rich environments......Historically non-toxic _Phormidium_ species have been used for nutrient removal during tertiary treatment. For a system loaded with 2% swine manure at 20°C, _Phormidium bohneri_ is capable of removing 12.2 mg/g N-NH4+ and 0.8 mg/g P-PO43- dry weight per day (de la Noüe and Bassères, 1989). Clearance of nitrogen and phosphate is dependent on the initial concentrations of nutrients in the system.


cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy (22 Nov 2021)

I think a lot depends on species: Cyanobacterial Farming for Environment Friendly Sustainable ...​https://www.frontiersin.org › fenvs.2018.00007 › full 

Mass _Cultivation_ of _Cyanobacteria_ · by J Pathak · 2018 · Cited by 98 — _Cyanobacteria produce_ a number of valuable compounds such as ethanol, butanol, fatty acids, and other organic ...
‎Abstract · ‎Introduction · ‎Cyanobacteria and... · ‎Mass Cultivation of...

A possible approach to reducing the conditions for cyanobacteria in our tanks is to provide the opposite conditions that are used for commercial production, but I still think that it will be species dependent.

From observations it is often associated with fish tanks that contain expensive fish that are fussy eaters or difficult to 'settle down' and are being fed 'meaty' foods that are being left in the tank to tempt the fish. Would it be reasonable to assume that cyanobacteria can and do utilize protiens and other non mineral nutrients. If this is the case then nitrates and phosphates may be more  'smoking guns' than prime causes.

Extrapolations from 'High Tech' tanks may be difficult because they contain strong plant growth, have high CO2 levels but still have good dissolved oxygen and most importantly controlled light levels. Blooms in nature are often associated with high light levels and the long photo period of summer.

Just some thoughts, does anyone have definitive answers.


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Entirely anecdotal, but cyanobacteria are really common in the <"later stages of sewage treatment">, where you would have alkaline water with large amounts of nutrients.
> 
> Romanis, C., Pearson, A. & Neilan, B. (2021)


Thanks, Darrel (@dw1305)

JPC


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## jaypeecee (22 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> WCs is only one of the weapons you deploy when conducting total war on algae - it needs to be combined with other initiatives such as lower light intensity, improved nutrients levels (CO2/O2, ferts), improved flow etc.


Hi @MichaelJ 

And all of the above need to be combined with one vitally important catalyst..................................................loads of expletives! 

JPC


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## MichaelJ (22 Nov 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @MichaelJ
> 
> And all of the above need to be combined with one vitally important catalyst..................................................loads of expletives!
> 
> JPC


Haha Oh yeah for sure, that goes without saying!


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