# gardening compost (john innes) for base layer substrate



## Etherelda (19 Jun 2010)

Hi

I've seen somewhere that its possible to use John Innes compost to put down under the cosmetic substrate.

I put a layer of tetra complete substrate under the gravel in a 55 ltr tank, and with low light and no co2, the plants did great, but I don't want to pay Â£10 for a small tub. 

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Fern


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## plantbrain (19 Jun 2010)

Worm castings

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## Etherelda (19 Jun 2010)

thanks,

where does one purchase worm castings (visions of me rifling through the blades of grass on the lawn)?


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## dw1305 (20 Jun 2010)

Hi all,
I'm not sure commercially worm worked compost is available inthe UK at the moment.
Another possibility is the soil from mole hills, moles mainly eat earth worms so if you get a lot of molehills the soil will be both worm rich and unlikely to contain many pesticide residues (worms are very sensitive to insecticides).

If you only want a a litre of worm worked compost, I could post you some.

cheers Darrel


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## magpie (20 Jun 2010)

I guess if we were working very long term, we could buy a worm composter, set it up, let it go, feed it household waste and use the residue?

not that anyone I know is that long term... but getting into DSM is teaching me a lot of patience, so maybe I"m wrong.. 

m


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## dw1305 (21 Jun 2010)

Hi all,


> I guess if we were working very long term, we could buy a worm composter, set it up, let it go, feed it household waste and use the residue?


 This is a good idea for re-cycling peelings etc. & making compost to put back on the garden etc, but the resultant compost is 100% organic matter, and not really suitable for the bottom layer of the tank. The worms that live in compost/manure heaps are _Lumbricus rubellus_ (Red worm) & _Eisenia foetida_ (Brandling or Tiger worm). You can actually make quite a lot of compost fairly quickly, as you can build up very large numbers of worms. I keep Red Worms as a supplementary fish food, and have both species in the compost heap if any-one wants some?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbricus_rubellus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenia_foetida

The worm castings you want are from _Lumbricus terrestris_ (Lobworm or Night -crawler), and these are common under permanent grass, lawns etc. These worms live in mineral soils ("Brown Earths") with abundant organic matter and tunnel in the soil, ejecting the tunnel material as a worm cast (just like a mole hill). (They also actively graze on Buttercup and Clover leaves etc.).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumbricus_terrestris

If you do have access to a Lobworm rich area of grass the casts can be swept off with a fine tined lawn rake, and you can collect a lot over a few days.

cheers Darrel


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## FishBeast (22 Jun 2010)

I am a big fan of worm pee and worm castings and have considered using castings in my tank. I use worm pee to feed my emersed mosses and plants. I have access to worm castings here for very cheap and am wondering how much sucess you guys may have had with it. I understand that it cannot burn the roots of the plants so I am wondering if osmocote is needed supply a decent supply of nutrients?


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## dw1305 (22 Jun 2010)

Hi all,


> I understand that it cannot burn the roots of the plants"


I wouldn't expect the worm casings to have much nitrogen in them, the leachate from the worm composts probably will.
I've noticed that in the compost heap all the worms are in the truly disgusting organic layer where the vegetable peelings etc have broken down into a wet, slimy mess. 

My suspicion would be that other than a lack of nitrogen they should have a pretty good mix of plants nutrients (If you think about it it is the plant material that is being broken down, so the nutrients in the worm compost should be those in the plants). The nitrogen component goes "missing" as it is out -gassed as N2 or NH3, and incorporated into proteins (principally the worms muscle mass). If you have a lot of woody material you have a high C:N ratio, meaning any fixed nitrogen will be mopped up pretty quickly by the microbial biomass. 

A low dosing of Osmocote can do no harm and I'd probably add a small regular dose of KNO3 if growth or plant colour seems sub-optimal (K levels are usually high in composts (unless it has leached out), but plants use a lot of K).

cheers Darrel


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## FishBeast (24 Jun 2010)

Thanks mate


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