# Electronic bubble counter



## foxfish (14 Sep 2012)

I think it is about time someone produced some method of counting C02 bubble rates - as soon as you get to 200lt it become virtually impossible to count the bubble rate using a conventional counter - anyone got any ideas?


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## skeletonw00t (14 Sep 2012)

Great Idea & then also link it into a digital needle valve so you can just program in the bps!


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## hinch (14 Sep 2012)

gas flow meter.
set it up correctly on a 10litre tub measure gas flow rate. upscale it by factor of 20 for a 200 litre tank and adjust your gas flow accordingly.

http://www.weldequip.com/gas-flow-tester.htm


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## ian_m (14 Sep 2012)

I thought of this, replace the bubble counter with a flowmeter, the type where a small ball moves higher up the tube the higher the flow rate.

The smallest cheap flowmeter (£30) I could find was rated 2 litres/minute air, smallest graduation was 0.1litre/minute. Co2 as denser than air might give a slighty different reading.

How much are we after to measure ?

Assume bubble is 2mm diameter, a 0.1cm radius. Thus volume is 4/3 x pi x r ^3 = 4/3 * 3.142 * 0.1^3 = 0.0042cm3.

Assuming say 5 bubbles per second give 5 x 0.0042 = 0.02cm3/sec.

This is 0.000002litres/sec -> 0.0012 litres/minute   

This is 100 times smaller than the smallest graduation on the flow valve. So flowmeters are no good.


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## hinch (14 Sep 2012)

you can get low flow meters that'll measure that no problem
http://www.flowmeterdirectory.com/flowm ... _flow.html

BUT as always there's a catch they're VERY VERY expensive


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## Spikey-Mike (14 Sep 2012)

I registerd ages ago and never got round to introducing myself, so apologies for that....

I drilled out the hole in my bubble counter so that the bubbles were bigger and therefore easier to count for a given flow rate.

Rgs, Mike.


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## geoffbark (14 Sep 2012)

I looked into this ages ago. You can use a rotameter ( the little glass thing with the ball)

Or even better a mass flow controller. 

I found both at cole palmer, but i needed to buy 10 to get discount


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## GHNelson (14 Sep 2012)

Hi
How much are these babies :?: 
hoggie


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## geoffbark (14 Sep 2012)

I will try and find my thread over at the barr report.

But i will add, that you can reduce your bubble rate and keep the co2 level constant by decreasing surface agitation and increasing co2 diffusion and circulation

As for cost

mass flow controller, circa £900

Rotameter, circa £40-£200


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## geoffbark (14 Sep 2012)

I was looking at this one

http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/Product/Flowmeter_with_metric_reading_scale_5_50_mL_min/WZ-32460-30


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## foxfish (14 Sep 2012)

geoffbark said:
			
		

> I will try and find my thread over at the barr report.
> 
> But i will add, that you can reduce your bubble rate and keep the co2 level constant by decreasing surface agitation and increasing co2 diffusion and circulation



Trust me, on a 200lt tank with trickle filter & sump, conventional BCs are almost useless but, when you move onto 400lt plus, you need something different regardless of surface movement & distribution.
I think there has to be an electronic solution that can actually count the fast flowing bubbles?


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## geoffbark (14 Sep 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> Trust me, on a 200lt tank with trickle filter & sump, conventional BCs are almost useless but, when you move onto 400lt plus, you need something different regardless of surface movement & distribution.



I don't know what to say, sorry i disagree 



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> I think there has to be an electronic solution that can actually count the fast flowing bubbles?



There is. 

You will need a mass flow controller, I doesn't count bubbles it measures flow in ml/m for example 

These are costly and are not needed for most hobbiests.

But you may be a contender, i also find bubble counters crude and useless


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## geoffbark (14 Sep 2012)

Just in case you like DIY

Check this out http://hackaday.com/2011/10/24/logging-bubble-frequency-and-pressure-in-your-fermenter/


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## hinch (14 Sep 2012)

the link i posted was for a mass flow meter  1600 USD

Think i'd rather use rummy noses if they die there was too much co2


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## Brian Murphy (28 Oct 2012)

I have a 400+l tank and so you reckon using a bubble counter is non-productive?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (28 Oct 2012)

Not at all, it's a great visual aid at the very least murf. I have more than I can count going into mine, but you can tell the difference if you turn it up or down slightly.

Also know when there's no gas going in if its empty or leaking.


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Oct 2012)

couldnt tell a thing with mine it was going so fast so when it broke i didnt replace it.
Five years from know we will probably  laugh that we used to use bubble counters.  Momentum for new aquatic products seems very high at the moment.


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