# Suitable emersed plants (background ideas)



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

I want to again try my hand at something new that I haven't done yet but I have no idea what plants are suited so hoping for a bit of help

I'm planning on banking up the back corner of my 45P and have some emersed growth from behind wood/root, there are options to plant either direct in the banked substrate where it will be 15cm max to break the waterline or attached to the wood itself

The look I'd love but have no idea if possible is:

Fern like plant such as bolbitis difformis attached to the wood protruding the surface so bottom half of plant would still be under water, would this dry out?
Grass like plant such as eleocharis sp. Planted in the substrate, strong enough to continue upright growth out of the water?
Stem plant, have lots of rotala in my other tank if this suits but I've also been looking at Murdannia Keisak which could be quite interesting
If theres an easier way and I'm complicating anything I'll happily be schooled and appreciate any input


----------



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

Or.....

Would it be easier to go down the route of using non aquatic plants and trying to make that work


----------



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

Thanks @freewolny, all good points and it's something I hope will be the case but my only concern is the half in and half out of water state the plants will be in. 

I'd fully expect the underwater growth to suffer in favour of it putting its efforts into the emersed growth so might need to choose carefully and something like limnophila aromatica would be great but possibly would suffer badly from this given its large and bushy tendencies under water?


----------



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

Managed to find mention of bolbitis drying out when emergent so that rules that out

Murdannia keisak seems like a goer from what I can see but I'm unsure if eleocharis will grow along the water surface of be rigid enough for more vertical growth out of the water surface, cheers will have a look at that thread now, just noticed you post as I was writing this


----------



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

Seen the mention of keisak by Darrel about the die back so maybe not...

Or I could always follow of @Iain Sutherland and plant in the Eheim HOB filter I'll have running on the tank, with what I've no idea but will look into it as that might be an easy option if I find a suitable fern type plant that would grow well in it


----------



## sparkyweasel (12 Nov 2019)

That's what my Eleocharis does, up to the surface and then along it. 
It grows upright in wet soil, with only the roots underwater.
What about Japanese Rush? That does well in shallow water, the leaves are quite rigid and stick up nicely.


----------



## sparkyweasel (12 Nov 2019)

And _Marsilea _grows well emergent.


----------



## Kalum (12 Nov 2019)

Thanks @sparkyweasel what sort of depth do you have it growing under? 

I did have a look at various pond plants and rush's but from what I read most only tolerate the crown of the plant submerged and not say another 10cm of the plant?

Marsilea is different from what I've been looking at but a really interesting plant, will have more of a look


----------



## alto (12 Nov 2019)

Look at various Hygrophila sp., H zosterfolia, H tripartita (I think there’s an amazing submerse/emerse example in a recent George Farmer shop video)

Cardamine lyrata seems inclined to trail across the (water) surface and begins producing emerse leaf 

I suspect E montevidensis would be worth a try


----------



## tam (13 Nov 2019)

I think Eleocharis might be worth a go. If you got a bigger pond variety then it might be sturdy enough to grow upright. Other option is to put a plant box on the back and then have something lower in front to mask the gap. You could go for a terrestrial fern that just liked damp roots that way. Rotala grows emersed but looks completely different.


----------



## zozo (13 Nov 2019)

There is no easy answer. Growing plants emersed indoors in a soaking wet condition long term. Than it all comes down to light intensity and duration. To make this work for both aspects of the setup the emersed and submersed part in low tech is a real challenge. In high tech, you are much better off with a rather large range of plants.

This picture below was a 6000 lumen 12 hour period high tech setup with simply exploding emersed growth.
Over the years i kept this tank it grew over 15 different plant sp. on top of it. Some growing out of the water planted in the substrate. Left and right smaller plant sp. are all on wood fed by the water column.





Currently, i'm struggling and still in the middle to get something similar like this going under a 4000 lumen 12 hour period in low tech condition with several of the same plant species. I can only say 2000 lumens less already makes it a lot more difficult.

Plants growing emersed in a soaking wet condition are a lot more sensitive to light and temperature parameters.


----------



## foxfish (13 Nov 2019)

Like Marcel, I have found it a real challenge to find plants that enjoy wet roots and dry air.
I have managed to find a few that have survived but never really thrived long term.


----------



## Kalum (13 Nov 2019)

Thanks @alto @tam @zozo @foxfish for the info and past experiences, it's much appreciated and a rethink is in order i reckon

It sounds like another holy grail idea to have the best of both worlds so i think i'll concentrate on both separately and change my idea slightly, I'll have a look online to see if i can find a hang on basket and then it allows me to choose plants which will compliment the tank and hopefully thrive in surroundings which suit them instead of trying to force it

Some small terrestrial ferns and grass like plants/rush will hopefully do well in this setup


----------



## zozo (13 Nov 2019)

There are some options that can do very well. If you place a piece of wood going emersed and grow some mosses to it. Once you have a proper amount of moss you can use it as a medium to grow epiphytes to it.
Ferns are always tricky plants, some are very sensitive and don't like to be cut or replaced. But the small Peperomia sp. is a rather undemanding houseplant that can grow really well like that. They actually don't like wet feet to much, but in most cases the moss on the wood is moist enough for it. Than spraying now and then is more than enough.

I've kept this peperiomia Rosso up there for months and it grew really well. And ts a cheap little plant you can buy in any garden centre in a small baby version. In the wild, it also grows on trees.  But we don't know it like that, we only see it potted.


 

As said depending on your light intensity your options are rather limited but not 0.


----------



## TOO (13 Nov 2019)

Persicaria ap. Sao Paolo is a beautiful plant that did well for me in room humidity. Awaiting some today for a new paludarium. M. keisak dried out for me. I am currently experimenting with E. montevidensis at a depth of 5 cm, but not much happening after two-three weeks, but leaves do not seem to dry out.


----------



## tam (13 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> Or I could always follow of @Iain Sutherland and plant in the Eheim HOB filter I'll have running on the tank, with what I've no idea but will look into it as that might be an easy option if I find a suitable fern type plant that would grow well in it



I brought a superfish breeder box to plant in (haven't got around to it as I keep finding it handy for other things) - it's basically like a HOB container without all the extra parts. You can feed it directly from a HOB filter via syphon rather than an airpump or use a wick and the water level might be low enough (depending on your tank water level) to give you a dry surface for plants that dislike wet crowns.


----------



## sparkyweasel (13 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> Thanks @sparkyweasel what sort of depth do you have it growing under?


Japanese Rush I've got about 6" of water above the top of the compost. I'm sure I've had it deeper before. I've tried it fully submerged but it didn't grow at all. So I think it just needs some access to air.
Marsilea will grow submerged, but mine is in about 2" of water, and was doing really well until a few days ago. Rats got into the greenhouse and ate all the young leaves off it. The rest is flattened, apparently from them sitting on it while they feasted. I'm sure it will recover though.


----------



## TOO (13 Nov 2019)

Yes, can confirm that Japanese Rush is excellent, it is even winter hardy in Denmark, a very versatile and in my eyes beautiful plant, the leaves arch nicely over the surface. An addendum to the Persicaria: not only does it grow well emersed, I found that cuttings don't even need to be planted in soil, just stick them in the water and they start growing almost immediately.


----------



## sparkyweasel (13 Nov 2019)

TOO said:


> leaves arch nicely over the surface.


I forgot about the arching variety; I've got the straight one. Both are nice. There's a dwarf variety as well, but I haven't seen that one for sale recently.


----------



## Kalum (14 Nov 2019)

zozo said:


> There are some options that can do very well. If you place a piece of wood going emersed and grow some mosses to it. Once you have a proper amount of moss you can use it as a medium to grow epiphytes to it.
> But the small Peperomia sp. is a rather undemanding houseplant that can grow really well like that. They actually don't like wet feet to much, but in most cases the moss on the wood is moist enough for it. Than spraying now and then is more than enough.
> As said depending on your light intensity your options are rather limited but not 0.



Thanks @zozo moss covered wood will be definitely be on the cards bud hadn't thought of using it as a base to be able to keep a plant like that moist with it's wicking properties so thats some great info thanks



TOO said:


> Persicaria ap. Sao Paolo is a beautiful plant that did well for me in room humidity. Awaiting some today for a new paludarium. M. keisak dried out for me. I am currently experimenting with E. montevidensis at a depth of 5 cm, but not much happening after two-three weeks, but leaves do not seem to dry out.



Thanks @TOO with M keisak being an annual i think i'll give it a miss and for whatever reason i've not had success with montevidensis in this tank but vivipara grows fine



tam said:


> I brought a superfish breeder box to plant in (haven't got around to it as I keep finding it handy for other things) - it's basically like a HOB container without all the extra parts. You can feed it directly from a HOB filter via syphon rather than an airpump or use a wick and the water level might be low enough (depending on your tank water level) to give you a dry surface for plants that dislike wet crowns.



nice idea @tam how does the syphon fed from the HOB work?



sparkyweasel said:


> Japanese Rush I've got about 6" of water above the top of the compost. I'm sure I've had it deeper before. I've tried it fully submerged but it didn't grow at all. So I think it just needs some access to air.
> Marsilea will grow submerged, but mine is in about 2" of water, and was doing really well until a few days ago. Rats got into the greenhouse and ate all the young leaves off it. The rest is flattened, apparently from them sitting on it while they feasted. I'm sure it will recover though.





TOO said:


> Yes, can confirm that Japanese Rush is excellent, it is even winter hardy in Denmark, a very versatile and in my eyes beautiful plant, the leaves arch nicely over the surface. An addendum to the Persicaria: not only does it grow well emersed, I found that cuttings don't even need to be planted in soil, just stick them in the water and they start growing almost immediately.




Brilliant @sparkyweasel and @TOO that gives me something fairly concrete to look at and consider, did a bit of reading up on japanese rush and soft rush last night and i'll see if the tank turns out suitable for them


----------



## zozo (14 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> Thanks @zozo moss covered wood will be definitely be on the cards bud hadn't thought of using it as a base to be able to keep a plant



Moss is a great medium for it, also in nature it's not uncommon for plant seeds ending up in moss and germinates.

This happened in my garden, seeds from a flowering Cyperus alternifolius next to it blowing into the moss and germinate.





Cyperus also might be an option for you, its a pretty undemanding plant sp. If you keep a Cyperus from the garden centre outdoor during the summer, it will flower and carry seeds. These you can collect and germinate. It's a grass, if you cut it in time it will be similar to maintaining a lawn. It will rejuvinate and spread and stay small. Note the plant will not survive frost.


----------



## tam (14 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> nice idea @tam how does the syphon fed from the HOB work?



You literally just need a little pipe/bit of airline going from the top of the HOB filter to the other box - start a syphon (same as syphoning water out of your tank) easiest way is is filling the tube with water and then putting one end in each. As the water level in the filter is higher than the tank edge it will fill it enough to overflow and keep going.


----------



## Kalum (14 Nov 2019)

tam said:


> You literally just need a little pipe/bit of airline going from the top of the HOB filter to the other box - start a syphon (same as syphoning water out of your tank) easiest way is is filling the tube with water and then putting one end in each. As the water level in the filter is higher than the tank edge it will fill it enough to overflow and keep going.



yeh as long as the water level in the HOB is higher than the other box then it'll be a nice way to do it, just wasn't sure if the syphon would have been strong enough to keep going given that there is very little level difference between them usually (plus my eheim has quite a tall side to climb over so not sure it'll work)


----------



## tam (14 Nov 2019)

I've an aquaclear which has a top edge about 5cm above the tank rim - works with that with airline hose going up and over. I would guess it would work with most HOBs because they are all supported by the tank rim so the waterlines are roughly the same. If you don't mind not having flow through you can use a cotton wick with the end in the tank and it will keep the planter filled to the tank water line - you lose the benefit of using the plants as a filter though.


----------



## DeepMetropolis (26 Nov 2019)

zozo said:


> But the small Peperomia sp. is a rather undemanding houseplant that can grow really well like that. They actually don't like wet feet to much, but in most cases the moss on the wood is moist enough for it.


In my tank I have an Peperomia Piccolo Banda it shifted down the wood in time, now the stem and roots are submersed, plant is still going strong after almost a year. It only drop leaves that get submerse after a while.


----------

