# First algae alert ⚠️: Brown algae killing carpeting plants. Help!



## Lance Wisher (27 Oct 2021)

Alright everyone,

First planted tank - 55 days in. See images for layout and plants. I've got 14 happy harlequin rasboras swimming around a fully cycled tank (still trying to keep nitrates down, taking almost daily water changes for that. 

*But my carpet plants are suffering from a brown algae outbreak. Many leaves on my monte carlo have gone clear (dead) and now have a fine layer of brown algae. Dwarf hairgrass also has turned brown in several spots. (see pictures)*

Any idea on what to do here? Is this idea to wait it out, or should I be intervening somehow? (e.g., trying to remove dead leaves, using a chemical to remove agae, replacing the carpet plants altogether, etc.)

_____
*Tank details: *20 gallon (75L) long, NilocG Thrive+ all-in-one firtilizer 3 times weekly and after water changes, DIY c02 with in-line atomizer diffuser (indicator kept lime green during photoperiod), LED 26 18 watt light with a 6.5 hour photo period from 4:00pm-10:30pm, next to a window with a touch of natural sunlight during the day (wife wants to display it in our living room), fully cycled (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites daily) Fluval 207 canister filter (780 L/hr).

Thanks!
Lance


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## Zeus. (27 Oct 2021)

Lance Wisher said:


> *ank details: *20 gallon (75L) long, NilocG Thrive+ all-in-one firtilizer 3 times weekly and after water changes, DIY c02 with in-line atomizer diffuser (indicator kept lime green during photoperiod), LED 26 18 watt light with a 6.5 hour photo period from 4:00pm-10:30pm, next to a window with a touch of natural sunlight during the day (wife wants to display it in our living room), fully cycled (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites daily) Fluval 207 canister filter (780 L/hr).



DIY CO2 is hard to get right which would lead me to think you have fluctuating CO2
DC colour change is only half the equation, needs a pH profile to check pH is reached before lights on
Fert - fine
WC fine as it will remove DOCs (Dissolved Organic Compounds)
Natural light not good- block light until  algae under control - bit of carboard will be fine esp when lights are off
Tank 75liters and pump output 750L/Hr, Filter output should be enough, however tank in pics doesn't seen to have much surface agitation ! - was the filter on? Also what filter media are you using and is it 'stuffed' with it ? when was last time you cleaned the filter esp if using filter floss. Filter floss really reduces filter output I would advise to use course and medium sponges only and minimal Bio media (if any) as bio media also reduces filter output. The main biological filtration is done by the plants roots in our planted tanks as their surface area is massive.
Raising the lily pipe outlet will increase tank flow also - yours does seem a tad on the low side, better if it creates a ripple.
As for the water tests we don't advise them as they can be unreliable and are user sensitive and you regular WCs will be also help plus after six weeks you filter should be taking care of any Ammonia and Nitrites


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## Hufsa (27 Oct 2021)

Zeus has given you good advice, I would do what he says, he really knows his stuff.
CO2 and flow are THE factors to nail in high tech tanks.
There are many threads on the subjects available if you search


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## Wolf6 (27 Oct 2021)

The melting plants make me suspect flow isnt optimal, meaning its co2 related.


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## ceg4048 (27 Oct 2021)

Lance Wisher said:


> Many leaves on my monte carlo have gone clear (dead) and now have a fine layer of brown algae. Dwarf hairgrass also has turned brown in several spots.


These are classic symptoms of poor CO2. The DC should be green when the lights are first turned on.
It would help to reduce the light intensity. Also, lowering nitrate in a planted tank is a really bad idea, although doing a lot of water changes is actually a GOOD idea, because that keeps the tank clean.
It's not clear what you mean by "DIY CO2". Is that because you are using yeast or are you using a fire extinguisher?

Cheers,


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## sparkyweasel (27 Oct 2021)

Have a look here for some modern thinking on silicates;
Silicates


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## MichaelJ (28 Oct 2021)

Lance Wisher said:


> Any idea on what to do here? Is this idea to wait it out, or should I be intervening somehow? (e.g., trying to remove dead leaves, using a chemical to remove agae, replacing the carpet plants altogether, etc.)


Hi @Lance Wisher,  Just wait it out and keep up the WC - maybe up it - most, if not all, new tanks, and this is a _very new and immature tank_, suffers from some degree of diatoms at one stage or another.  Get rid of dead and badly infected leaves - they rarely ever recover - and perhaps dial down a light intensity a bit (sunlight is generally terrible, so you want to do something about that for sure..) .... And of course take note of the advice given above by the high rollers on CO2 etc. - they really know their stuff.

And Welcome to UKAPS! 

Cheers,
Michael


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## erwin123 (28 Oct 2021)

does the direct sunlight come from all directions or only from the window behind the tank (as shown in the photo?)
If only from the back of the tank, you could
(1) paste some sort of sticker on the rear of the tank (at least temporarily to see if algae situation improves)
(2) since the affected carpet is in the front of the tank - plant the rear of the tank densely with easy stem plants to block the sun from getting to the front of the tank?

my own experience with brief bursts of sunlight (i.e. through the window at certain times of the day only) is that it will lead to algae on the tank glass but should normally not affect healthy plants that much? I have to regularly clean my tank glass with a scraper and I blame sunlight for that


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## azawaza (28 Oct 2021)

Chill. 
Wait six weeks.
Keep up water changes.
Lower photoperiod due to sunlight.
After six weeks, add Amano shrimps.
Snails too. Otos if you need more crew.
Wait a few days; munching in progress.
Keep up water changes.
Chill.

This hobby is about patience.


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## MichaelJ (28 Oct 2021)

azawaza said:


> This hobby is about patience.


Well said!


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## GHNelson (28 Oct 2021)

Purchase some fast growing stem plants and use them as floating plants....ramshorn snails will help with diatoms!








						Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!
					

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new,....it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum.  1. Improves water...



					www.ukaps.org
				



hoggie


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## Lance Wisher (28 Oct 2021)

Thank you all for the ideas and replies! Some really great tips here.

*I followed several of @Zeus. suggestions:*

Refilled bubble counter on my ZRDR 2 liter C02 system that uses citric acid + baking soda to ensure better consistency
(here's an image of the system)



Cut some heavy cardstock paper and attached to the left and back of the tank to block out sunlight
Removed filter floss and about 15% of the bio media from the filter (it was stuffed) to increase water flow
Raised outflow lily pipe to introduce a "ripple" and increase surface agitation
I Will plan on reducing water tests for nitrates (although consistently above 20ppm when I read them)
I will continue water changes, maybe 2/week now instead of daily
*I also followed @ceg4048 and @MichaelJ suggestions:*

Reduced light intensity to 75% during photoperiod

*Remaining questions I have:*

@Zeus. What is a Ph profile and what would I be looking for in terms of a reduction in Ph before the photoperiod?
Adding to that, what is the "ideal" C02 system in terms of consistency and reliability? I've heard of the fire extinguisher method with a regulator on top that you get filled somewhere, like a hardware store... Would this last longer/produce more consistent results than my system?

Will removing the filter floss and some of the biomedia reverse the cycle/bring back ammonia/nitrites that I need to deal with? I can test but wanted to hear your opinions.
How do I deal with dead Monte Carlo leaves? They are so delicate that when I try to trim them, the entire piece it's on shifts and nearly comes out of the soil.
When should I decide to replace the Monte Carlo altogether?

Would snails and shrimp really make a significant impact on reducing algae in my case? If the impact would be minimal, not sure I want to go this route.
*New issues/questions I have *

I am bothered by how much my bubble counter evaporates (making it hard to dial in consistent C02 output). I have ensured all connections have no leaks, and have used thread tape on all threaded connections to prevent leaks. I bought some* mineral oil *to use instead of water but have seen very mixed opinions about this - for some it works fine and others they say it can get into the diffuser... But I have a check valve...
*Lastly *- Jumping Rasboras 😞 I have had 3 out of 14 now jump out and die in only 2 weeks. I don't want to keep losing them at this rate. Will they settle down? I have considered building a net covering for the top. What has everyone tried that has worked for preventing fish jumping?
Thanks!!!
Lance


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## ceg4048 (29 Oct 2021)

erwin123 said:


> my own experience with brief bursts of sunlight (i.e. through the window at certain times of the day only) is that it will lead to algae on the tank glass but should normally not affect healthy plants that much? I have to regularly clean my tank glass with a scraper and I blame sunlight for that


Hi erwin,
                This only happens when CO2 is less than perfect. I've kept tanks in a conservatory without even a speck of algae.




Cheers,


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## Zeus. (29 Oct 2021)

Lance Wisher said:


> What is a Ph profile


pH Profile



Lance Wisher said:


> what would I be looking for in terms of a reduction in Ph before the photoperiod?


Most folk aim for a pH drop of 1.0pH which is approximately 30ppm CO2. However it isnt just the [CO2] thats important is having the same [CO2] from lights on till CO2 Off


Lance Wisher said:


> what is the "ideal" C02 system in terms of consistency and reliability


Any CO2 which is in a cylinder should do the job and a decent CO2 regulator and timer. 


Lance Wisher said:


> Will removing the filter floss and some of the biomedia reverse the cycle/bring back ammonia/nitrites



No, once the filter has cycled the bacteria seeded in the media will respond very fast if less media has more to do. Bacteria double every 20mins in idea conditions. There should be n need to test and I wouldn't test



Lance Wisher said:


> How do I deal with dead Monte Carlo leaves?


Can be tricky, do best you can and I would consider a lift/trim replant if needed. However based on you pics I would give them a light brush to remove worse. Then 'clean up crew' will/should take care of it - once the Flow and CO2 is sorted



Lance Wisher said:


> Would snails and shrimp really make a significant impact on reducing algae in my case?



Would having a clean up crew working 24/7 help - Yes. a few Amano shrimp would make a massive difference by them selves, I 50+ Amanos in my 500L and thousands of RCS ( Red Cherry Shrimp). Amanos are considered one of the best cleaner but can eat some softer plants and are hard the rear in tank. RCS are easy to rear so if you add 10- 20 a few months later you will have more, if the fish you choose don't eat the young.
Snails can be helpful too, some folk hate them - choose wisely - I have Ramshorn's and MTS in mine plus pest snails.



Lance Wisher said:


> am bothered by how much my bubble counter evaporates (making it hard to dial in consistent C02 output). I have ensured all connections have no leaks, and have used thread tape on all threaded connections to prevent leaks. I bought some* mineral oil *to use instead of water but have seen very mixed opinions about this - for some it works fine and others they say it can get into the diffuser... But I have a check valve...



It evaporates on us all, some folk do use mineral oil which doesn't. the bubble counter is only there to help make minor adjustments and once the injection rate/pH profile is sorted there should be a need to adjust it on a regular basis. DIY CO2 production is a PITA IMO



Lance Wisher said:


> Jumping Rasboras 😞 I have had 3 out of 14 now jump out and die in only 2 weeks.



All open top tanks can suffer this painful problem with any fish and Amanos, Amanos climb out if not happy. My 500l Lidded tank still had the issue with fish jumping and getting stuck. between glass.


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## MichaelJ (2 Nov 2021)

dw1305 said:


> I'm not a Discus keeper, but why can't you successfully keep Discus in a planted tank long term?


Just for keeping them, I can't think of any reason. Discus can tolerate a relatively wide range of water parameters, with a preference to higher temperature  - they are actually not as finicky as they are made out to be. For breeding however, the eggs in order to fertilize and develop do need soft water with low EC which might make it difficult to accommodate certain plants for that period of time - most 'easy' such as swords should be fine though.

Cheers,
Michael


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