# Swamp Creek - 2 years on updated June 2012



## tyrophagus (23 Apr 2010)

My first tank in years!  Lets hope I don't just grow algae and if you look at the pics I'm off on a good start with some green water.

So I did the great trek from Swindon to Wrexham to collect my tank and spent 5 hours at The Green Machine extracting every last bit of info Graeme could provide.  Hats off to them, the best customer service I have received for a long time so well worth the 6hr round trip.

I picked up a lot of goodies bearing in mind I'm almost starting from scratch after ten years out of the hobby.  All I had that was useful  was the CO2 setup the rest I had to buy.

90x45x45 optiwhite.  I'm waiting for a inlaid glass lid from ADA which will rest on 8 metal clips attached to the top of the tank.  The reason I can't have the tank open is the 6 cats I entertain at home, the new tank is cat TV.  I'm sure they would find out it was wet one way or the other but once the fish are in I can see them trying to perch on the side.  One of my cats has a rare neurological disease[ http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... 100802.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ] so we have a feeding tube direct into his stomach until he recovers (5 months now and waiting) and my other half does not want complications of him taking a swim.  Within minutes of arriving home at 9pm he jumped into the empty tank.





Taken with my iPhone so excuse the quality

So back to the kit.  

90cm optiwhite 
hydor external heater
sera inline diffuser
eheim 2076 external filter 
Fire extinguisher CO2
7l ADA power sand special (perhaps a bit more than required)
21l ADA Amazonia granules
Cal Aqua lily pipe/inlet
hardscape 3 x ironwood   
2x TMC Growbeam 1000 ND lighting tile and suspension kit + power controllers
Vortech MP10 powerhead

Plants

marsilea hirsuta in foreground
cryptocoryne  wendtii brown and green
Hydrocotyle sibthorpioides
Pogostemon Stellata
Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Rotala sp "green"
Hemianthus micranthemoides
Micranthemum umbrosum

Once again thanks to Graeme at TGM for helping me focus my plant choices and for the supplying the Knowledge.  Something that became apparent is that not a lot is know about using TMC LED lighting for planted tanks so I'm entering Tiger Territory is some respects.

The plan was to create a triangular design inspired by a 1m width Takashi Amano tank but in a 45cm width tank. The tank would be viewed from 2 sides, front and left.  I do a bit of photography when I have time and using a leading line can be an important compositional element in a photograph.  A tank is very similar to a photograph.  It's framed by its very nature, and like a painting we decide how to construct the elements that fill the frame.  I used 3 pieces of wood to divide the tank and create the effect of root buttresses.  I change my mind between setup and planting as the wood on the right seemed to be too parallel to the other pieces.





I wanted some red plants in the background and to simulate the effect of plants growing up to the base of a tree.

I think I'll lose the Heteranthera zosterifolia once the tank has stabilised.  

One of the downsides of not ordering or having the space (in a 2 bed terraced cottage) for a dedicated tank base is the fact i had to install it one a Welsh dresser.  I failed to anticipate that it would bend the dresser.  I measured at least a 1 cm drop in the centre of the dresser and could no longer open or close the doors properly.  So this morning I had to drain 90% of the water and position a support in the centre of the dresser so it would no longer bend. Success! it worked thank god as I thought there might be 180l of water on the floor soon.

So this is the tank today, day 3.









And proof for those that think cats have the ability to avoid disaster, well malcolm has no sense of danger....


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## gzylo (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Hi

Nice tank
Where in Swindon are you?

If you need some filter mulm let me know as i`m cleaning mine on Tuesday 

Yea Heteranthera zosterifolia is quite a "pest" later on + once its grown whitch does not take long its a nice plant + its good for cycling tank as its nutrients hungry but be careful, if top leaves do not allow enough light to get to bottom of the plant the leaves will root + its structure is quite strange as it does not grow up much but sort of expands on sites. I`m experiencing with bbq stick (wood ones) so she have something to climb on, just done it today so no effect yet 


anyway good luck   

Thanks


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## chump54 (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Great hardscaping, reminds me of a rotten tree stump.

great work, like the plant choice too 

Chris


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## tyrophagus (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				chump54 said:
			
		

> Great hardscaping, reminds me of a rotten tree stump.
> 
> great work, like the plant choice too
> 
> Chris


[/quote]  

Thanks Chris.  A rotten tree stump is exactly what I was after so success!  It's difficult to translate the concept into the final product. Hopefully this will turn out tops!


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## tyrophagus (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				gzylo said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> Nice tank
> Where in Swindon are you?
> ...



I bought cycled filter material from TGM.  It's not coping with the high ammonia levels at present but it's early days. I'm based just outside of Swindon nr Wroughton.  Thanks for the offer I appreciate it but I think the filter material I have just needs a few days to sort itself out, I'll pm you if I need some help -   thanks for the offer, it's great to know there are hobbyists out there prepared to help each other  .


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## zig (23 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

You certainly went the whole hog there  I wouldnt underestimate the weight of the tank on the dresser, its 182 kilos (28 stone) for the water only, not to mention the weight of the glass or hardscape, so its a lot of weight!

Good job so far though, nice simple hardscape, very effective.


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## Mark Evans (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				zig said:
			
		

> wouldnt underestimate the weight of the tank on the dresser, its 182 kilos (28 stone) for the water only,



this was my first thought   

great scape though.


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## tyrophagus (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

The Marselia is putting up new leaves after just 4 days but they are all 4 leaf clover types rather than the single leaf which I'm aware is normal at the start.  Do I just cut these off now or do I allow them to feed the rhizome?  

Do I allow the plants like the Hemianthus micranthemoides and Micranthemum umbrosum to grow out more before I start trimming them?

If the crypts start to melt do I just suck up the leaves as the rot or do I cut the leaf off at the base?

cheers


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## Garuf (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Why is your cat wearing a jumper?


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Why is your cat wearing a jumper?



The cats cold because the lights arn't on - its cold   .

Paul.


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## tyrophagus (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Malcolm's jumper keeps a stomach tube in place on the side of his body.  We need to feed him 4 times a day because his eosophagus is dilated and although he eats well the food can't reach his stomach.  Conditions called dysautonomia or Key Gaskell syndrome.  Rare in cats, no known cause and some recover in a year as long as they get the the right nursing care.  We are into his 6th month with a tube.  

This might sound over the top but the cat is in no pain and as you can see he is very active and mischievous. 

Back to the tank - do I trim back this marsilea now or let it grow more leaves as they seem to be reaching upwards a lot?


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## John Starkey (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Very nice setup,i like the hardscape and the planting,what lighting unit is that ?,
regards john.


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## Mowze (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Great job with the tank, hardscape looks great! Interested to see how this grows out as there have yet to be many larger planted tanks set up using LEDs only.


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## tyrophagus (24 Apr 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Very nice setup,i like the hardscape and the planting,what lighting unit is that ?,
> regards john.



Thanks everyone for your encouraging comments.  John the lights are TMC Growbeam 1000ND lighting tiles.  LED lighting and currently running at 45% strength while the tank becomes established.

The controller for each tile allows you to set the start and end time as well as a "ramp" phase that can be from 0 min to 4 hrs and also the max and min intensity from 0 to 100%.  This means you can leave the tiles on all night with a 2% intensity simulating full moon if you were inclined to.

I have them set to ramp up and down over two hours before and after a 4 hour phase set at 45% maximum.

They are very bright and from what I understand have excellent penetration and good PAR.

negatives:  design - not that aesthetically pleasing, the serial number is a sticker on the face of the unit (I had to cover with black tape) and the user manual is ok not great.


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## tyrophagus (6 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - @ 15 days*

So its turning into a struggle.  I have plant death but I persist.  It's only 2 weeks after all.  The nh4 levels are close to zero.

Today after 3 days without a water change I replaced about 75% water.  I managed to remove a lot of dead plant material, surprising how much is hidden away.  The lights are on for 6 hours at 25% of the the rated capacity of the LED lights.  My co2 is green despite me trying to get it to yellow.  I have no fish so I assume I can pump as much co2 into the tank as I like so I have upped the rate.  I have a lot plants turning to mush!  80% are fine but I've lost 20%.

I have upped the co2 to "to many bubbles to count".  To much light and to little co2 seems to be the most likely cause.  I'm rather frustrated by this but I know I need to patient.

At least I have no algae at the moment.


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## TBRO (6 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Don't worry all new tanks go through an algae phase. The plants will come back and the algae will disappear. Better to keep the CO2 constant rather than fiddling with it too much as this encourages BBA. Love you cat by the way, his mischievous eyes remind me of my cat Aslan. 




Keep up the good work, Tom


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## sanj (6 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Hehe lovely looking cats there. My new tank will be open top I have two naughty cats but only when they were kittens were they interested in the fish.


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## Mawgan (17 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

I've obviously been more patient than you in planting - or is that just slower?     It's a lovely design and certainly achieves your aim of the 'rotted trunk' look.  Because you're that much further on in the process, I haven't yet been hit by your misfortune with the plant decay.  I hope you are managing to fight back - there seem to be many mountains to conquer on the road to success.  If you are, I hope to learn from your experience.

I was just thinking last night that there seems to be little experimentation among forum members with LED lighting, certainly in larger set-ups.  There is a considerable initial outlay, and it will be interesting to discover if you consider it worthwhile.  I like the concept of being able to vary and control the degree of light.

Big fan of Malcolm also - hope his recovery continues...


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## tyrophagus (18 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Tom - Aslan looks like he's landed with his bum in the butter.  That's a cat with attitude.

Mawgan I too went to TGM and spoke with Graeme.  I had planned to setup the tank with plants from day one but only when I spoke to him did I realise this was not necessarily the way to go.  Because I had a week off and was far to impatient I went ahead against his advice and planted from day one.  

I have over 4 weeks reduced my ammonia to zero and have not suffered yet from algae in the tank except for the filter tubes that seem be alive with brown algae.  I have snails introduced from the plants or live filter material I used and they seem to be thriving.  Not sure if snails are a good thing.  I have Crustaceans, daphnia like creatures in my moss, so I think the water quality is ok and not poisonous.

My mistake was a mismatch between CO2 levels and lighting.  I aimed for a green drop checker.  It wasn't long before the stem plants stopped growing and some turned yellow and then to mush.  It turns out these Growbeam 1000ND LED tiles are a bit on the bright side and I was probably driving the process of photosynthesis at a rate that could not be sustained by the amount of CO2 available.  Read all about it here 

So I was at 45% power on both tiles and have dropped that back to 25%.  I then tried to turn my drop checker yellow.
For some reason I find that to keep my drop checker yellow I need 15 - 20 drops per sec CO2.  At least that way CO2 is not limited.  That solved my problem, the plants started growing.  Less light, more CO2.  I have no fish and can't introduce them until I have a stable CO2 level that's not toxic to fish.

I plan to slowly lower the CO2 once the tank is stable and try get a green tinge to the yellow.  If the plants are happy over a few weeks then I'll consider increasing the light slightly as I think its too low at the moment.  But I'm having to learn patience and make alterations slowly one step at a time.  

I'm also thinking about the plants and may move away from having 3 types of stems in the back corner, I might get some crypts instead.  The only stem plant that really survived was the pogostemon stellata so I'll keep that.
I'm also worried my hardscaping will disappear as the plants grow.





I've moved some cryptocoryne wendtii green to the back of the tank and planted Cryptocoryne undulata brown at the back between the stumps (I think that can grow to 40cm).  I also found some cryptocoryne amicorum which is that small crypt in front of the middle root.  I'm going to get rid of the floating green weed soon but right now its not doing any harm.


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## tyrophagus (22 May 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*





So 5 weeks and today I installed my new bubble counter and planted my cryptocoryne x willisii in the back right corner just next to the cryptocoryne undulatus.  Hopefully they will both grow up the 25cm to the surface and fill the back right of the tank.  My Marselia is growing v slowly but since the co2 has been sorted it seems we have more new leaves than dead leaves.  

I'm tempted to get some shrimp for the tank and some otos but concerned the co2 is to high for them.

no algae yet.


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## tyrophagus (3 Jun 2010)

*Swamp Creek Creatures*

So I have Hydra and plenty of them as I have no fish yet.  Started with a handful on the side of the tank and now I have hundreds.

More info *here*


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## Nelson (3 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

have you got any live stock in there yet.i see you said no fish,how about shrimp.


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## tyrophagus (3 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Nelson I have 5 Amano shrimp and some snails.  They don't appear to be interested in them.


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## Nelson (4 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

have a read of this thread and the link in it.the thread is about planaria but in the link it says it killed hydra as well.
http://www.lfkc.co.uk/index.php?topic=496.0


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## tyrophagus (6 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Nelson do you think these need to be killed?  

I assumed that when I introduced some fish they would be eaten.  I have 24 gold ring danio's on order for Friday and I think they will feast on them.    

I have made some changes.  As my plants have started to grow better rather than than turn to mush, which I put down to they yellow drop checker I.e. Better co2, I have decided to increase my light intensity.  I'll be keeping a close eye on the plants.  I have dropped the 2x tmc led lighting tiles down by 10cm which means they are 70cm from the substrate at the deepest point.  I have 1 tile set at 40 % output and the other over the more shallow area of the tank set at 35% output.  I calculate that this provides 80umols at the deep end based on 130umols being available at 60cm at 100% from the PFK article.  

So far so good.


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## Nelson (7 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> Nelson do you think these need to be killed?
> 
> I assumed that when I introduced some fish they would be eaten.  I have 24 gold ring danio's on order for Friday and I think they will feast on them.


its up to you,your tank 
hopefully the fish will love them.
love your choice of fish.don't see them that often.


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## magpie (7 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> I have 24 gold ring danio's on order for Friday and I think they will feast on them.



They sound cracking - where have you ordered them from?  Can't wait to see how they look in the tank... 

I nearly went for your lighting fixture (that is, one like it) but decided I couldn't afford it - also don't have facilities for pendant lighting - but will be fascinated to see how it goes... 

lovely tank - gorgeous, gorgeous wood for the hardscape.  /woodenvy



m


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## tyrophagus (10 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Magpie I ordered them online from link

They arrive tomorrow and I'm a bit anxious as they are known to jump and my tank is open.  May have to fashion a lid. Here is a pic





Picture is from PFK by the way - heres the link


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## Graeme Edwards (10 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

I would recommend a lid for the 1st night of any fish introduction. If they are going to jump, it will happen the 1st night.

Some fish just jump. Rasboras are the worst IMO. Those and hatchets. You wont have an issue when you get a glass lid for the tank.


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## tyrophagus (11 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Thanks Graeme, they arrived today and I'm really pleased with them.  I'll keep the tank covered until my lid arrives, should be here soonish.  My cats have not ventured near the tank opening when the lids off so I've got used to not covering it.  Be interesting to see what the glass lids are like when the arrive.


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## tyrophagus (11 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

I've been struggling with plant growth and have a separate thread running that I'd like to move over here as this is my journal and will hopeful be a record of the process I'm following.  

The thread was here http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11212

The relevant info is that my stems where turning to mush.  Clive et al made some excellent suggestions and it basically comes down to finding the right light level (ie not to much), along with an appropriate co2 level for the light level, and appropriate flow.

I'll post regarding my flow soon which I think is adequate to good (not excellent) but my hardscaping creates a dead spot that even a spray bar may struggle with.  I am seriously considering a spray bar, however I am not convinced it's my flow that caused the initial problem (I will quite possibly have to test that assumption).

I no longer have stems that turn to mush and I have growth.  I have high co2 levels, yellow drop checker, at least 5 - 10 drops per second.  Things have definitely improved.  I have managed to increase my light levels to provide an estimated 60umols at substrate level.  The plants are growing much better since increasing the light and sorting out the co2.

My problems are that I get a film on the surface each day that is a solid that can be removed with a net.  This is due to my plants being unhappy about something.  I have some leaves on crypts that are old leaves going yellow with green veins and my hydrocotyle has yellowing old leaves which develop holes.  All these plants have co2 bubbles flowing past them so flow is unlikely the problem.  I have not added any magnesium since setup except that which comes with the tap water.  Thames water do not have a magnesium level for my water.  It's very hard and I wonder if it's mainly calcium with little Mg.  Today I started adding MgSo4 using EI.  I'm hoping this is my problem.

I accept that I may still have a flow problem, I'll provide info on this soon.

I hope my light is at the correct level, it's a TMC LED tile x2.  It's currently at 60cm from substrate and at 40%.

I'll post picks and flow diagrams next


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## Mawgan (13 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



> I have high co2 levels, yellow drop checker



Just catching up with your journal, Tyro, and it makes for interesting reading.  Picking up on this quote, and given that you are about to add fish (lovely choice, btw), are you not a little nervous about the CO2 levels...?  You were kind enough to post on my journal about drop-checker indications, and I've been rude enough not to reply (forgive me, one bitch of a recent fortnight   ), but I've been wringing my hands about this issue and delaying my fish introduction. I've actually turned the CO2 off for a couple of days and stopped dosing EasyCarbo in an attempt to get the thing back to green from yellow.  

Pray tell how you have resolved these conflicting demands...


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## tyrophagus (13 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Mawgan I have not had a problem.  I was worried when I introduced the fish but despite my drop checker being bright yellow the fish have shown no sign of distress once they settled in.  The first 20 mins they spent a bit of time at the surface in between diving deeper into the tank which had me panicking a bit.

10 shrimp, 1 otto and 24 danio's and they seem fine so from my experience I would not be to concerned.


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## magpie (13 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> 10 shrimp, 1 otto and 24 danio's and they seem fine so from my experience I would not be to concerned.



Definitely time for a picture....  

m


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## Nelson (13 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				magpie said:
			
		

> tyrophagus said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


not wrong   .
lets see them danio's   .


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## mlgt (14 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Fantastic looking fish! Looking forward to more pics!


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## Mawgan (14 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

OK.  Thanks for that.  I admire your confidence in introducing the fish with that drop checker reading    .


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## tyrophagus (22 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

The Danios are ace! They school really well and look like little brown trout.  I even have a 2mm fry that's still alive (see the black dot at the top of the water on the left front, in the meniscus)  

Mawgan I lost 2 fish   .  One is current in pathology having it's innards examined under a microscope because it had a change in colour to its coelomic cavity before it died after a week in the tank.  It died alone in a net which i trapped it in that morning.  The fish never swam with the crowd, I thought he was just an individual taking things easy, a Johnathan Livingstone Seagull type.  But he had pathology and I wish I could be a fly on the wall when they open the post at the path lab and decide which pathologist gets the fish case     The other became shrimp food one day 2.  I initially thought they were bothered by excess co2 as at night they spent a bit of time at the surface, this did not change though with a green drop checker so I have gone back to yellow.  The other 22 and the otto and shrimp all seem fine as well.  I'll keep you posted with regards to the fish pathology report.

So some things with the tank are good and some bad.  I have growth, my Pogostemon stellatus is growing well, no mushy stems anymore.   No algae.  All the plants are putting out new growth.

The bad is that I have yellowing of older leaves and some pinholes forming especially in my hydrocotyle and my crypt wendetti green.  I am dosing EI as recommended and have recently added MgSO4 as I don't know how much is in the tap water and neither do Thames water.  I still get a white surface film that accumulates daily and builds up over the week.

So back to basics.  I need the correct level of light, 30ppm co2 and good flow.  

30ppm CO2 I have but I think its time for a spray bar to rule out flow issues and I have ordered a PAR meter so I can measure the out put of my LED lights as no one seems to have much experience with them.  They are great lights but still have to prove themselves and I have set them at 35% strenght for an 8 hour photoperiod.  Personally I think my light levels are to low!  It's time to be objective and measure the PAR.  The meters a bit pricey at Â£200 but I don't have any kids except for the 2 dogs, 6 cats and the horse, and now 22 fish.  If kids needed to photosynthesise we would all have PAR meters! 





I'm really struggling with tank photography.  I have an external flash and the tank lights but I just cant get a fast enough shutter speed or decent lighting.  How do you all do it?  Getting sharp images of fish is a nightmare.





Pogostemon Stellatus and Danio Tinwinii



 

Danio Tinwinii

Now for a description of my flow as promised, but its a boring read   

As far as flow is concerned my lily pipe pumps water at approx 700l/hr down the front of the tank (90cm) from right to left.  I can see the CO2 bubbles flow around the tank.  The water then moves along the left wall and back from left to right down the back wall.  When it gets half way down the back the majority is directed diagonally towards the right corner by the hardscape.  Some flow occurs down the length of the back wall.  The water exits from the back right corner (I'm not keeping the inflow and outflow in the same corner).  I have a vortech mp10 attached to the back wall on the right just below water level.  It pumps a broad stream at low output from back to front and creates a circular flow from top to bottom and back to top in the right side of the tank.

So almost all my plants sway in a breeze constantly.  I think the hardscape makes flow difficult to acheive in the back right of the tank.  Do you really think that flow is an issue in my tank?



 





iPhone pics - sorry


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## Nelson (22 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

i'm loving your tank mate   .
great looking fish as well   .


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## magpie (22 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Wish I could answer your questions re: flow or photography - but haven't the experience... but wanted to say how impressed I am with your tank - and the fish look stunning - good to know they shoal well 

thanks for posting. 

mx


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## Garuf (22 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

In your post you say you're aiming for 30ppm, this is simply an arbitrary figure you can go much higher just watch your live stock, as your lighting is so high it's a good idea to just use the drop check as a guide and keep upping till you reach the safe point for your stock. I'd be inclined to sway the side the filter is on to see if that shows any improvement in flow, though if you're seeing a good mist all through the tank then there really is no need to worry just make sure you're watching the co2 like a hawk.


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## tyrophagus (26 Jun 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - 3 months*

So an update but no pics at the moment.  Yesterday I added a horizontal spray bar across the back of the the tank.  I'm really impressed with the uniformity of the flow.  This was a suggestion made by Clive and as usual I'm glad I followed his advice.  The lily pipe worked but this is a better flow pattern and easier for the fish as it's spread out across the tank.  An upside is that it creates a ripple on the surface which creates a shimmer effect in the tank which I like.

I also added 20 Celestial Pearl Danios.  There so small! They just disappeared into the tank!


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## tyrophagus (7 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

A quick update.  I should be at work but my PAR meter arrived today so I found the time to get home and do some initial tests.  Turns out that I had a PAR of 12 at substrate level and 18 mid level and 40 at the surface.  No wonder I don't have problems with algae and my plants grow slow.  

I'm going to take lots of measurements and post them on the forum.  I bought my meter for Â£200 from Omnima.  It arrived in 24 hrs.   

My first attempt to buy a meter was from http://www.midlandreefs.co.uk and I must warn everyone from using them to buy anything.  Appalling customer service, never replied to emails and did not even bother to contact me to say the could no longer provide an item that's still listed on their website, they just refunded me 2 weeks later


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## Garuf (7 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

you could probably get away with bumping the light up a touch then? I fancy a par meter they strike me as a valuable aid to scaping and plant growth.


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## sanj (7 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



> My first attempt to buy a meter was from http://www.midlandreefs.co.uk  and I must warn everyone from using them to buy anything. Appalling customer service, never replied to emails and did not even bother to contact me to say the could no longer provide an item that's still listed on their website, they just refunded me 2 weeks later



Lol I had the exact same situation, ordered with Midlands Reefs and nothing arrived for well over a month and I had to do all the chasing, but in the end when I did get through to the fellow, he was pleasant enough and refunded my money. I spoke to Omnima and they had them in stock and posted the next day. I think that might be the difference the latter buy in numbers of what they advertise and dont just order reactively.

Im getting much higher numbers than you but its a totally different set up. I do have aquarays that i will be placing on another set up (marine whites and growbream 500s). i am guessing they will be giving more similar numbers to you in that setup.


----------



## tyrophagus (8 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				sanj said:
			
		

> Lol I had the exact same situation, ordered with Midlands Reefs and nothing arrived for well over a month and I had to do all the chasing, but in the end when I did get through to the fellow, he was pleasant enough and refunded my money. I spoke to Omnima and they had them in stock and posted the next day. I think that might be the difference the latter buy in numbers of what they advertise and dont just order reactively.
> 
> I'm getting much higher numbers than you but its a totally different set up. I do have aquarays that i will be placing on another set up (marine whites and growbream 500s). i am guessing they will be giving more similar numbers to you in that setup.



Sanj I have your journal bookmarked, awesome tank  .  I suppose we both went for Midland Reefs because they seemed better value.  Can't beat 24hr delivery though.  I'm surprised at how low my numbers are as well as the lights look bright so the lumen value must be high but does not correspond to a large PAR value.  I found a huge drop off in values in air compared to in water.



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> you could probably get away with bumping the light up a touch then? I fancy a par meter they strike me as a valuable aid to scaping and plant growth.



Garuf my plants have been growing slowly and have never been 100% healthy, I still get a scum layer over the week on the surface of the tank.  What I have never seen is algae and now I know why.  Lets hope I never see it as the lights get turned up slowly.  I have been thinking about renting my PAR meter out to UKAPS members but I'm worried about it being damaged or getting stolen.


----------



## sanj (8 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



> I have been thinking about renting my PAR meter out to UKAPS members but I'm worried about it being damaged or getting stolen.



Similar situation here, unless you know people within a reasonalbe distance it is difficult/risky. They arent exactly cheap or even essential, but i think useful. 

In regard to the low reading, I think one of the reasons might be the nature of LEDs being more directional, although the tiles you have are supposed to have wider angles than the gen 1 aquabeam 500s. Also LEDs being more directional light, yous should have areas of higher and lower PAR discounting the plant and hardscape effects on shading. So are you going to lower your tiles a couple of inches to increase the PAR. I remember PFK also took some PAR readings, i think they were higher results, but proabaly lower to the water and perhaps different number of tiles, tank size etc.

I remember reading posts by a guy called Hoppy on the Planted Tank, he has written a few interesting articles/posts which I think have been very helpful to people. However I thought he had said that he does not notice much difference between air and water readings, but I have found them to be significant, the water readings being lower as one might expect and thankfully so in my case. The noticable difference is just above the water surface and just below, I think the drop off with depth in water is slower, but I cant remember, ill check again.

Your tank might be slower to mature than average, but it sounds like it will be much easier to maintain.


----------



## tyrophagus (8 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - TMC Growbeam 1000 tiles*

Ok so I managed to spend the free time I had today taking measurements of the PAR values in the tank.  As you may know I have 2 x TMC growbeam 1000 tiles suspended above a 90cm x 45cm x 45cm tank.

Here is a camera phone image of the setup, ignore the exposure, I'm trying to set the scene for how I made the measurements.






So the bottom of the tiles are 31cm from the surface of the water.  The water column is 35cm deep at its deepest point on the left directly under the left tile.

I took readings at just above the substrate, mid water and at the surface of the water.  I also took readings at 5cm below the centre of a tile.  









The results are interesting.  I have physics 101 somewhere in the recess of my brain.  I don't really know how to interpret the fact that the PAR values drop off so quickly in air and not as quickly in water.  I thought water attenuated light intensity faster than air.

So the graph below needs some explanation.  These lights have a variable intensity setting from 0 to 100.  I took the readings with both lights on the same settings and the light sensor under the center of the left tile.  The right tile does increase the readings slightly compared to having only 1 tile switched on.





So I made some graphs one shows the linear relationship and the other a log curve, I have ignored the 5cm readings.  To be honest I only have maths 101 so I'm not sure the log curve means anything but it's almost straight which suggests to me the drop off in PAR is logarithmic as apposed to linear especially if you factor the 5cm values into the curves.

Any science boffs out there care to comment?   



 





So from what I can see if I SLOWLY increase my intensity to 100 then I will be in the optimal PAR range.  Correct?


----------



## sanj (8 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



> So from what I can see if I SLOWLY increase my intensity to 100 the I will be in the optimal PAR range. Correct?



I would say so, from what I have read from others experiances. This level is more in tune with the PAR readings I am getting when I have half of my lights on (which is 75% of my lighting period). Infact your readings are better than mine because I get a range from lows of 23-25 upto 40 odd at the subsrate.


----------



## Garuf (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

This to me screams that the TMC Modules are no where near as potent as they claim. It also makes me think that my much delayed DIY lumiaire might actually be best with 21 LED's rather than the revised 15. Great post and very useful, keep it up!


----------



## ceg4048 (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Yes, I recall the number 600 umoles at the surface at 100% output supposedly reported by PFK. Their distances must have been different. How far is the  tile from the surface? That might be the difference.

Cheers,


----------



## JAS (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Yes, I recall the number 600 umoles at the surface at 100% output supposedly reported by PFK. Their distances must have been different. How far is the  tile from the surface? That might be the difference.



Those were reef white AquaRay 1000HD tiles with ten Cree XRE Q+ LEDs driven at 700mA and fitted with lenses. According to the first post these are GroBeam 1000ND with ten Cree XPE's of an unstated bin, no lenses, and very little other tech information given by TMC. The GroBeams are 6500K which may or may not be better for a planted tank than the 14,000K of the AquaRays, but it would appear the AquaRays are superior in every other respect. Probably why they cost quite a lot more.


----------



## plantbrain (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

25-30 might be a good range to shoot for, also, measure the entire substrrate PAR, not just one or two spots, the light should be even across the entire sediment.

Point source lights like HQI or these, often have a round hot spot in the middle and then decline outwards, raising the light high can help mitigate this, but it's still present.

I've messed with HQI and old school MH's for decades. I use T5's only now. LED's have a long way yet to come I think.
Maybe 2-4 years before I'm convinced and they are actually reasonable $$ wise.

The PAR should be no more than +/- 10 micromoles anywhere on the sediment.
If not, then things need to be adjusted for to compensate, use different plant species in those locations where it is higher/lower etc. Rates of growth tend to be much higher in the sweet spot and the energy use is also higher with point source.

Nice to have the ripples in there and the shimmer form such lighting.
LED's can do this too, but .......they are very $$ and not really a pretty DIY job for most.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## tyrophagus (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Yes, I recall the number 600 umoles at the surface at 100% output supposedly reported by PFK. Their distances must have been different. How far is the  tile from the surface? That might be the difference.
> 
> Cheers,



My lights are 31cm from the surface, the water column is 35cm deep.  Perhaps if the article was testing a marine setup then the lights were close to the surface.

From my readings it appears the lights lose approximately 10x their PAR levels in 31 cm of air but then the attenuation is less as the light travels through water.  Does water transmit the spectral energy better that air, like sound travels further through water than air?


----------



## sanj (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



> My lights are 31cm from the surface, the water column is 35cm deep. Perhaps if the article was testing a marine setup then the lights were close to the surface.



If I remember correctly I think they were 8" from the surface in the PFK experiment, so 20cm. Also Jas made the point that they were using the Marine versions which use more powerful LEDs.


----------



## ceg4048 (9 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, when there is a change in the medium that the light is travelling through this causes the light to bend. This is called refraction. This is due to a change in the speed of light through the different medium. You have to remember however that what you are measuring with the meter is not only the light that is coming straight at the sensor from the bulb, but the total energy reaching the sensor, which includes light that is reflected from nearby surfaces. If the sensor is submerged then it is also seeing light reflected from the underside of the waters surface. If the water is turbid or dirty then there will be more scattering and the energy will be dissipated, so you'd get a lower reading. So there are many combinations of factors that will affect the reading.

Cheers,


----------



## tyrophagus (24 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

So an update on swamp creek.  I really appreciate all the advice I received about not turning up the lights as they are the main reason driving algae.  However the led lights were not as strong as we initially thought.  I know have them at 100% for 8hrs with a 2hr ramp up and down either side.  I have seen a remarkable improvement in growth especially of the marselia.  Most of the plants pearl for the majority of the photoperiod. The PAR readings vary between 40 and 50 at the substrate level.  :


----------



## ceg4048 (24 Jul 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Good stuff mate. As Tom mentioned, this is one of the rare occasions where the solution is to add more light. It's a good thing you actually had the means to purchase a PAR meter otherwise we might still be scratching our heads. And we learned a bit about LED's to boot.

Cheers,


----------



## Ray (1 Sep 2010)

*Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Keep going with the updates, I love these warts and all journals, and this scape has potential now the growing pains are over. What happened to the Vortech, ditched for spraybars? I was wondering if it ran silently as it is a very desirable piece of kit on paper.  Thanks.


----------



## Garuf (6 Oct 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - established 20/04/2010*

Any updates? I'd be really keen to see how it's looking at the moment.


----------



## tyrophagus (9 Oct 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 10/2010*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Keep going with the updates, I love these warts and all journals, and this scape has potential now the growing pains are over. What happened to the Vortech, ditched for spraybars? I was wondering if it ran silently as it is a very desirable piece of kit on paper.  Thanks.





			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Any updates? I'd be really keen to see how it's looking at the moment.




Garuf and Ray thanks for prompting me to update!  Worklife gets in the way of the important things in life like aquascapes.  Ray the Vortech runs really quiet even at high speed which it only does while the lights are on.

I recently had my folks visit the UK for a few weeks and had to leave my other half in charge of Swamp Creek.  She did a good job but when I got back I found the flow through the spray bars was reduced due to a poor connection in the tubing in the tank.  

Ray the growing pains are still present it's just hurting in different places!  I'm stil enjoying the scape but I am struggling to nail the variables that might be causing me problems.

1. I have a long standing problem with a film that develops on the surface of the water over a week.

2. I have had a major melt of my cyrpts - I've even lost some some completely.  The new leaves grow well then suddenly melt.

3. I have algae, I'm managing it but it's not gone.  It's a black hair like algae on the margins of leaves.

4. I've lost some inverts - not sure why but may be associated with the use of easycabo.

5. A single stem of my pogostemon stellatus has started to grow in a spiral.  Recently it appears the same stem has straightened out.

So I've done a few things to try solve these problems, the changes took place about two weeks ago and I think they are making a difference.

1. I've reduced my lights from 100% to 70%.  This gives me a PAR reading of about 25 at the substrate level.  I reduced the photoperiod to 7hrs from 9hrs.

2. I've increased my water changes to 50% twice a week.  

3. I've replaced 30% of the siporax in my filter.

4. I remove all algae infected plants every week.

5. I have removed my spray bars which I realise are a useful tool to improve flow, however my problems started when I switched to spray bars (and increased lights so there are other factors...)   I replaced the spray bars with a Lilly pipe and I installed the vortech mp10 which had been removed when the spray bars were installed.  I have better flow now although the back right corner is a bit of a dead spot either way.

So the other things which remain constant are a CO2 at a rate of 10 - 15 bubbles per sec, 700 lph eheim (rated at about 1500 lph), EI dosing of ferts, easycarbo approx. twice a week.

I thought it would be easier than this to be honest and the scape is stalled as I try get the crypts to grow.






Here is the twisted pogostemon


----------



## tyrophagus (21 Oct 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 10/2010*

So I've been quite frustrated lately. I have some stag horn algae and and some spirogyra.  The spirogyra seems to be on the increase and I've decided to do a 3 day blackout.  Not much else to say really.  

I think I've covered the other aspects, lights have been reduced, increased ferts, minimising fluctautions in co2; improved flow..


----------



## Garuf (21 Oct 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 10/2010*

I've never seen anything like it on that distortion! Spirogyra can be a real pig to shift, good luck! Have you read jamesc's plantedtank guide? That has the best, algae guides.


----------



## tyrophagus (25 Oct 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 10/2010*

Ok so I've just finished a 3 day blackout.  I can see how this has affected some BBA on the marselia and there is definitely less spirogyra around but it is still present.  BBA present but looks white in places

Just to recap.

1. I have cleaned my filter
2. I dose the top end of EI as recommended by Jame's excellent website.  i.e. for 180l - 1/2 tsp KNO3, 1/8 KPO4 and 1/8 trace alternating.
3. I do a 50% (at least) water change every week
4. I have reduced my lighting so that the substrate plants receive approx 25 PAR (recommended that substrate gets 30 PAR -Tom Barr).  lighting period is 7 hours
5. I have a vortech 10 powerehead and its turned up enough to create a good flow (most areas of the tank have plants swaying in the breeze)
6. My filter delivers 700lph (1700lph rated) 
7. CO2 is FE and yellow (approx 5 - 10 drops per sec)

So the advice I'm looking for is

1. Is their any mileage in increasing my ferts above the recommended level? (with spirogyra probably not!)
2. Can I dose Easycarbo at 10mls daily?  180l tank.  I have fissedens in the tank and some shrimp.
3. When you blackout do you need to change the water every day for 3 days?  Squiggley says no, others imply you need to.  Do you keep dosing ferts through the blackout?
4.  Do I keep alternating between 3 days normal and then 3 days blackout until the spirogyra is clear.

These pictures were all taken a moment ago on my phone so they are not ideal photos but you can see where I am at the moment   [Malcolm and Isabel are keen aquascapers and never far from me when I'm tweaking the setup]

I've lost all my crypts along the back of tank! Have increased flow though and trying to keep co2 stable.


----------



## LondonDragon (27 Oct 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 10/2010*

Time to cut those infected leaves, and perform a water change, ensure the filters are also maintained on a regular basis, easy carbo will help if you are short on CO2, flow might be an issue even with the extra powerhead, on my rio 125 I have a 1500lph rated filter, a koralia nano 900lph and a Koralia 1 rated 1500lph and I still think that is not enough flow lol

If the nutrients and CO2 do not reach the plants they will start to deteriorate and get covered in algae, ensure you CO2 is up to scratch also which is the cause of algae in most peoples tanks, too much light and not enough CO2 to cope with it.

Tank is looking good though


----------



## tyrophagus (12 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*





Right so I've made a few changes in the past 8 weeks.  I tried to get rid of the spirogyra, BBA.  A few blackouts later and on its return I decided to get rid of some of the marselia it was growing in, next thing I knew I'd removed all the marselia.

I turned down my lights but also lowered them closer to the tank.  I measured the PAR values at the substrate which were in the region of 20 - 40 depending on where I measured. (2x point light sources so I get some overlap)

With the light intensity reduced I introduced Hygrophila pinnatifida, hygrophila difformis and ceratopteris thalictroides, Crypt balansae, crypt wendtii mi oya, crypt wendtii green.  I also tried to grow glossostigma as a carpet plant but it would only grow vertically.

I noticed that the surface film I'd been having a problem with stopped.  I made the mistake of messing with my filter doing a partial clean and ended up introducing a load of muck into the tank when I switched it on.

The following week the algae seemed to make its return - not surprising given my balls up with the filter.

I realise that with BBA its likely my flow is not adequate despite the movement I see in all my plants.  So I decided to go back to Clives advice months ago to use a spray bar.  I made one this time out of acrylic tubes.  Version 1 is installed and as soon as I get the gear sorted I'll have a wider diameter outlet v2.   I have an external 1800lph thats probably producing something like 600lph.  I have a vortech mp10 but decided to switch that off tonight as I think its interfering with the back to front flow pattern in the tank.

Today I removed the glosso and planted some crypt wendtii tropica, staurogyne and hair grass.

I have a bad feeling that I'm going to get some serious BBA in the hair grass.

I have stopped EI dosing and am adding TPN+ 10mls once daily for 7 days a week, 10mls easycarbo once daily and 5 pumps of some brighty K I have hanging around.  50% water change weekly.  FE CO2 - 5 to 10 drops per sec, sera inline diffuser, solenoid on 4 hrs before lights up,  drop checker lime green to yellow.

I just can't seem to rid myself of this BBA!


----------



## foxfish (12 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

You have had a hard time with your tank mate!
Lets hope your new regime works out - how is the cat?


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> I just can't seem to rid myself of this BBA!



sounds like a case of too much light intensity mate. 

It looks quit mildly planted, so limiting the light would be were i'd start. 

At least 2 x 50% weekly W/C would do some good to.


----------



## tyrophagus (17 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> You have had a hard time with your tank mate!
> Lets hope your new regime works out - how is the cat?



Cats OK.  He still needs feeding via his stomach tube but he's eating more by mouth so theres still hope.  He does have trouble keeping his weight up.  A happy cat in all respects though so worth trying to get him better.


----------



## tyrophagus (17 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

Today I added another external filter which is rated 650lph.  I manufactured the acrylic spray bar version 2 and installed that on my main eheim rated 1700lph.  It runs across the back of the tank and has an internal diameter of 20mm.  The previous version was quite narrow and that restricted flow.

The 650lph spraybar is at the bottom of the tank at the back and it sprays vertically up the back wall in the right half of the tank as you look at it.  This area has been difficult to get flow into as the hardscape blocks flow.

I'll see if I can post a diagram.  The flow in the tank looks really good, better than ever and I hope it sorts out my problems with BBA.


----------



## tyrophagus (23 Dec 2010)

*Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

So I thought I'd post about how I made my spraybar.  Nothing new if you search the forum except for the bending spring I used which I found recommended on another forum.

My first spray bar was to narrow.  I'm not sure about the physics but if the spray bar is narrower than the rest of the filter pipe work then it creates resistance to flow.  The same goes for anything you put into the outflow of the tank like external heaters or co2 reactors.

Here is my solution.  THE PHOTOS ARE FROM A PHONE so they suck - its all I had at hand.

I ordered from http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/clearplasticsupplies/  (~Â£10 for 2 of each length)

20mm x 2mm Clear Acrylic Tube Plastic Plexiglas Pipe 1m
External Diameter: 20mm
Internal Diameter: 16mm
Wall Thickness: 2mm


25mm x 2mm Clear Acrylic Tube Plastic Plexiglas Pipe 1m
External Diameter: 25mm
Internal Diameter: 21mm
Wall Thickness: 2mm

A HOT AIR HEAT GUN 2000W PAINT STRIPPER for about Â£13 off ebay

And a 20mm internal pipe bending spring from UK Plumbing Supplies
http://www.uk-plumbing.com/rifeng-20mm-internal-bending-spring-p-53653.html  (approx Â£4)





Previously I'd seen bending of acrylic with salt used to pack the pipe or electrical cord but this is an easier way in my limited experience (I've not tried the other ways).









The 25mm tube is the main spray bar cut to fit the tank.  The swan neck is the 20mm tube which I bent by heating and using the pipe bending spring.  I have 3 other pipe bending springs because I initially made a smaller spray bar and I bought the wrong size.  The 20mm internal pipe bending spring has a diameter of just less than 16mm!!




1st attempt - notice the folding at the first bend. 




With a bit of practice and using a wine bottle as guide to bend around.









So the swan neck has an ext diameter of 20mm and the spray bar has an internal diameter of  21mm.  This way the swan neck fits neatly into the spray bar and I use a bit of plumbing tape to create a seal. 

I heated the end of the narrower 20mm ext diameter tube and crimped it with some pliers to seal the end.  I use a short section of this in the end of the 25mm spray bar fixed by drilling a hole through both and using a match stick as a rivet, this way I can clean the spray bar properly.








I did find it difficult to attach the filter pipes especially as one of the clear filter pipes I attached had an internal diameter of 15mm! By heating them in boiling water they eventually stretched to fit.  The photo is a bit distorted, it looks worse than it is.




The first neck (near) is a glass cal aqua neck, the 2nd and 3rd are acrylic and you can see how the 20mm external diameter acrylic fits into the 21mm internal diameter acrylic. This way I can rotate the spray bar without adjusting the swan neck. (I'm running 2 filters now) I need to make an intake next but ran out of acrylic pipe hence the black tube.





The 2nd spray bar is just above the soil behind the hardscape at the back right side of the tank.  The bar sprays upwards towards the surface to create flow behind the hardscape and compliment the flow of the main bar.


----------



## NeilW (23 Dec 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

Nice job   

Very useful tip with the plumbing bending spring as I'm planning to try to make a 12mm spray bar for my nano.  If I had the skills it would be cool to have some made of stainless steel, ADA style!


----------



## Angus (24 Dec 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

those pipes look the dogs danglies! i think someone had a former life as a plumber lol.

i wish someone would manufacture them for those of us not so plumbing orientated.

i have to say though im not keen on the way you've sealed the spraybar, the teflon tape just makes it look messy, after all that effort i think it should look perfect, im sure ive seen pipe end sealers at plumbers and builders merchants, you know the rubberised ones with ribs? ive seen them in opaque white, but dont know if they go up to 20mm diameter.


----------



## Radik (24 Dec 2010)

*Re: Re: Swamp Creek - updated 12/2010*

Fantastic pipes. Thanks for guide and links I will do same with my nano tanks!


----------



## tyrophagus (30 Dec 2010)

*Swamp Creek*

I have posted a longer explanation in the filter sectionhttp://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=14188

Basically I have a 1700lph filter producing 432lph.  I have a plan.

So you might see that I've battled algae for a long time, not major algae but enough to require stripping leaves back all the time.  My crypts melt regularly, especially around water change day or just after.  I could not grow glosso.  I've used a lilly pipe then spraybars (tmc ones - rubbish), then a lilly pipe and now I'm back to my home made spraybars.

I overdose ferts if anything, I have measured PAR levels for light requirements.

One thing thats always bugged me is why I have to dose my co2 so high to get a response in my tank.  Its at 10 bubbles per second.  

I think I may have found the source of my problems!


----------



## tyrophagus (2 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

I've installed my eheim compact+ 3000 pump driving my co2 reactor and external heater.  The filter is an eheim pro3 2076 and it now has no obstructions to its flow except sintered glass.  

Heres a camera phone (slightly shaky) you tube clip showing the flow and spray bar configuration.  The surface spraybar is driven at a rated 3000lph and the angled spraybar behind the hardscape is driven by the filter at a rated 1700lph.  

0 - 30sec = whole tank
30 - 1:00 = close up
1:00 - 1:50 = spraybars/surface movement



I plan to use a timer to switch off the external pump an hour after lights out and to switch it on with the co2 3 hours before lights on.  The 2076 filter can also be set to reduce its flow after lights out.  That should give the fish and shrimp an easier time.


----------



## Dolly Sprint 16v (2 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Hi Tyro

That some ripple you have, know wonder you're injecting co2 @ 10 bps, the more surface ripple you have - will vent of the gas quicker, that why your DC is yellow within the video, if it were me I would drop the spray bar down or twist the bar so the returning water is flowing in a downwards direction and drop your DC to mid water or even lower still, try and aim for a light shimmer on the water - just like you were lightly blowing on the water. This will keep the residual gas with the water column and with a bit of luck (fingers crossed) you can reduce the BPS, keep your eye on the DC to give some indicate what the Co2 ppm is.  

Regards
Paul.


----------



## tyrophagus (2 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Paul the thing is I've managed to drop my bubbles per second to about 5 since I have increased flow and surface movement.  Its probably down to improved dissolving of gas into the water column with the large increase in flow through the co2 reactor.  The vid was taken at 5 bubbles per sec.  I agree that I'm probably losing some gas from the increased surface movement and have added water to the tank ( effectively lowering spraybar).


----------



## Dolly Sprint 16v (2 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Tyro

have a read at the attached - might be helpful.

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13899&start=0

Regards
paul.


----------



## tyrophagus (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

As always I'm struggling a bit.  Just need to keep trying things and see if I can eliminate the algae, get my crypts to stop melting and see if I can grow a carpet plant.  I planted Eleocharis parvula about 5 weeks ago and have had no runners, some top growth.  I turned up my lights and they did not respond, then I stared losing some crypt leaves.

Have added spraybars, a 3000lph external pump driving the co2 reactor (in addition to 1700lph filtration), upped my ferts to at least double EI, 50% water change per week + odd top up, 10bps/yellow drop checker, 7hrs lights.

My conclusion is it must be poor co2 diffusion despite a yellow drop checker.  My flow down to the carpet seems better than ever.  

My next step is to change the sera reactor for an UP Atomiser which seems to get good reviews on the forum.  It's on its way from HK

This is a hand held shot at f2.8 with pump on so the there a bit of blur.  Feeling lazy!

The ceratopteris in the left hand corner is temporary - just trying to have a decent plant mass.  The staurogyne is a test to see what I can grow at the carpet level - its actually doing ok, better than the hair grass which had a trim today.


----------



## foxfish (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

I think you have made a good move buying a new diffuser simply because it will really show you the distribution around your tank as you can follow the mists path.


----------



## George Farmer (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

I feel a bit ashamed that I've missed this journal.    

It's a fascinating read from start to present and I've learnt loads, especially about the LEDs.  Thanks very much for taking the time and effort to publish your results!

Are you using tap water?  Is it very hard by any chance?


----------



## tyrophagus (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

George I'm using tap water and it's hard as nails.  Is there something I should know about that?  I'm not keen on making RO water - used to do it and it put me off the hobby to be honest.  Much prefer a hose straight into the tank.


----------



## nayr88 (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Beautiful tank mate, nice to see something with no rocks what so ever. Very nice

Really cool spray bar!

Cheers.


----------



## George Farmer (23 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> George I'm using tap water and it's hard as nails.  Is there something I should know about that?  I'm not keen on making RO water - used to do it and it put me off the hobby to be honest.  Much prefer a hose straight into the tank.


I understand that it's tougher to grow plants in mega hard water, usually because more CO2 injection is necessary to get appropriate CO2 levels.  I don't understand the science behind it though, I'm afraid.


----------



## dw1305 (25 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Hi all,


> I understand that it's tougher to grow plants in mega hard water, usually because more CO2 injection is necessary to get appropriate CO2 levels. I don't understand the science behind it though, I'm afraid.


 This is because of the carbon dioxide >< carbonate >< bicarbonate equation. At high levels of bicarbonate (HCO3) the plants are CO2 limited, and must use bicarb. as their dissolved inorganic carbon (DIC) source. A few plants from hard waters can do this fairly well, but most have a limited ability to utilise carbonates. I've pinched the pukka explanation  from one of Clive's posts:


> _Bicarbonate (HCO3) is also considered DIC, so waters that might have a high bicarbonate content may evolve plants which have a strategy to convert bicarbonate to CO2. This is yet another incredible mechanism whereby the plant send Hydrogen ions (H+) out from the abaxial surface (the bottom of the leaf). H+ is basically acid and this converts the bicarbonate to CO2. The plant then uptakes this CO2. This mechanis is called "proton pumping" because a hydrogen ion has no electrons but simply a proton in the nucleus (or the nucleus may have a proton and an uncharged neutron.) The bicarbonate strategy is employed during times of very low CO2 levels and only about half of our plants have this capability....._


Another issue is the conversion of orthophosphates (PO4) to relatively insoluble calcium phosphate compounds in hard, carbonate rich water.

cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer (25 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > I understand that it's tougher to grow plants in mega hard water, usually because more CO2 injection is necessary to get appropriate CO2 levels. I don't understand the science behind it though, I'm afraid.
> ...


Hi Darrel

Does this mean that some plants may have a tough time growing in very hard water?


----------



## ceg4048 (25 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

George,
           While some plants may have a preference for alkalinity or even for TDS, very few cannot be grown in high alkalinity/GH. The carbonate/bicarbonate-carbonic acid equilibrium i.e. the tables showing KH/PH/CO2 relationship is only valid for a small amount of the CO2 dissolved in water.

For our purpose there is little or no difference in solubility of CO2 in hard or soft water. All gases that dissolve in water do so fundamentally as a function of their partial pressure and temperature of the water. It really isn't any tougher to dissolve CO2 in hard water. 

CO2 is exceptional and varies from ideal behavior because it reacts with the water, as opposed to gases such as Oxygen or Nitrogen, and this reaction modifies the apparent solubility, but not enough for us to worry about.

When CO2 dissolves in water, somewhere between 0.2% and 1.0% of the dissolved CO2 reacts with the water to form Carbonic acid (H2CO3). This is part of the equation Darrel refers to:

CO2 + H2O <> H2CO3 

Carbonic acid is a weak unstable acid and reacts with the water further to disassociate, first into bicarbonate (HCO3-)...

H2CO3 + H2O <> H3O+ + HCO3-

and then to carbonate (CO3--)

HCO3- + H2O <>  H3O+ + CO3--

Do you see the double headed arrow (<>)?  That means the reaction can go either way depending on how much of each product is available. The phenomenon responsible for driving the reactions from left to right (->), or from right to left (<-), is the quantity, distribution, or behavior of the charged particles on either side of the double headed arrow.

Can you see where the carbonate has a double negative electric charge (CO3--) and the bicarbonate has a single electric charge (HCO3-)? Well, water that is hard has a lot of positively charged particles such as Magnesium (Mg++) and Calcium (Ca++). The double positive Mg++ can combine with the double negative CO3-- and form MgCO3 which is chalk and which can precipitate out of solution. The same for the Calcium, which can form CaCO3. These reactions tend to remove CO3-- from the equation effectively acting as a hoover to unbalance the equation and to pull the reactions to the right (->).

But removal of carbonate/bicarbonate also makes the water more acidic and therefore a more acidic water will dissolve the precipitates like chalk which sends the carbonates back into solution driving the equation to the left (<-) and pushing the CO2 back into solution.

This is why the overall effect is of hard water is essentially transparent. It just like being on a Ferris wheel. And of course, this all applies only to a maximum of 1% of the CO2 at room temperature. The percentage falls to about 0.2% as the temperature increases to our tropical (but so does the solubility of the gas). The other 99% of the gas stays in solution as CO2.

Because of these reactions the carbonate/bicarbonate content of the water affects the rate at which CO2 moves into and out of solution, but it does not affect the concentration at equilibrium. People often refer to the charts which show the quantitative relationship of the various DIC species as a function of pH. They forget that when the natural pH of a given water sample is high in pH it also is typically high in carbonates/bicarbonates so that the ratio of carbonates to CO2 is overwhelmingly high but the amount of dissolved CO2 is the same as water low in KH.

Cheers,


----------



## dw1305 (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Hi all,
Yes I think Clive is right, I wasn't really thinking about adding CO2, so in that case the CO2 will be available in a way that it wouldn't be in carbonate rich water without the continual CO2 addition. This  then becomes the relevant bit:


> The double positive Mg++ can combine with the double negative CO3-- and form MgCO3 which is chalk and which can precipitate out of solution. The same for the Calcium, which can form CaCO3. These reactions tend to remove CO3-- from the equation effectively acting as a hoover to unbalance the equation and to pull the reactions to the right (->). But removal of carbonate/bicarbonate also makes the water more acidic and therefore a more acidic water will dissolve the precipitates like chalk which sends the carbonates back into solution driving the equation to the left (<-) and pushing the CO2 back into solution.


 This means that plants that you would struggle to grow in carbonate rich water (because of their inability to utilise bicarbonates) should grow in CO2 enriched situations. 

I think that a similar equilibrium would apply to some of the calcium phosphate complexes, they would definitely be more soluble in a weak acid solvent, but I'm not sure which compounds would form in the tank water, and some are more soluble than others.  The chemistry for this is well beyond me because as well as the "acid–base reaction", factors like "solubility in the presence of a common ion" and "selective precipitation" will come into play. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Thanks, Clive and Darrel.

So to summarise, for those that don't understand all the science, as long as you can supply sufficient CO2, the hardness of the water should not make much difference in terms of the ability to successfully grow plants.


----------



## ceg4048 (26 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Yes mate, I do apologize for the geek speak, but it's not easy to explain in non-scientific terms. The solubility of any gas is fundamentally a function of the partial pressure of that gas and the temperature of the water. We won't see any differences for the range of water values we use. So the only people who will see a real difference in ability to dissolve CO2 will be those people living in high altitude cities such as Denver, La Paz, Lhasa, Quito and cities at similar altitudes where the atmospheric pressures are significantly lower. CO2 is about 26% less soluble at 30 degrees C. than it is at 20 degrees C. and so these parameters have orders of magnitude more impact than does the hardness of the water, therefore water hardness should never be used as an explanation for poor performance. Tyrophagus himself saw a 100% increase in CO2 efficiency (10 bps to 5 bps) as a result of reconfiguring his flow (I assume he was using the same water), so right off the bat this demonstrates that the issues in the tank have little to do with water hardness.

Here is my standard shot showing a variety of plants in "hard as nails" water. This water had 3X the conductivity of Lake Malawi, double the GH of Lake Tanganyika and a 50% higher alkalinity than either, yet I had no problems whatsoever with CO2:






Cheers,


----------



## tyrophagus (27 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Its an interesting read.  I don't think I appreciated how complex the science could be.  So I should be able to grow almost anything in my water as long as I follow basic principals of high optimised flow, EI or equivalent, Light at an appropriate PAR and as much CO2 as my fish can live with.

So that leaves me with a question.  Why do my crypts keep melting?    I can lose an entire crypt over a few months.  When I say lose I mean that the leaves melt, one by one and the plant grows new ones which also melt until the root is to weak to sustain new growth and the crypt dies.  The leaves that die are young and old. I have 6 varieties and they are all affected.

Ok so it's not a disease.  It's a response to changes in the environment, the plant does not like change especially fluctuation in CO2.

I've thought long and hard about it and tried a few things.

1. I don't move them around.
2. I take care not to damage leaves at water change.
3. I've improved my CO2 and flow - I thought this made a difference BUT its happened again.
4. I'm waiting on an UP Atomiser so perhaps my CO2 can be improved even more.
5. I prune back damaged leaves.
6. I do at least 50 - 70% water changes once a week.

If I have noticed one trend over the months it's that the melts occur straight after water change days.  I thought it might be the change in co2 on water change day but now I wonder if it's the sudden change in the overall hardness of my tank water before the CO2 has a chance to "soften" it by making some calcium and magnesium insoluble.  

Thing is that Clive you manage to grow plants in really hard water and your water changes were huge if I recall so I'm not convinced.

I plan to switch to a 25% water change twice a week and see what happens.  Do you think my latest theory makes sense?

--------------------- water info ----------------------

My tap water (conductivity is accurate, the KH/GH were measure with an expired kit)

Conductivity 760us
KH 230
GH 240

Thames Water analysis for local area

ph 7.2
conductivity 598 us
TH (cac03) 344


----------



## ceg4048 (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Yes, there's nothing wrong with that water except that the Sodium looks kind of high and it probably taste's nasty. Sodium is the one ion that frightens me and it can weaken the plants so that they are susceptible to other issues.

My water changes are 70% at a minimum and are sometimes somewhere on the order of 90%, so these have nothing to do with crypt melt. That is strictly a CO2 issue. I damage my crypts all the time. Sometimes I pour boiling water over them. I move them around quite regularly. They just don't melt.

I don't recall exactly now whether you supplement with Excel, but this is a great tool to use when troubleshooting CO2 issues. If you see increased performance or better durability when supplementing, then this confirms that you have a CO2/flow/light issue.

Cheers,


----------



## tyrophagus (28 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

I use Excel daily, about 10ml in 200l.  I'll work on my CO2.  Cheers.


----------



## Nelson (29 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> I damage my crypts all the time. Sometimes I pour boiling water over them. Cheers,



can i ask why you pour boiling water over them  :? .

sorry to go off topic   .


----------



## ceg4048 (29 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

 I was wondering when someone would ask that. It's not because I love to torture crypts!   With a sodium based water softener system I was unwilling to use the warm water for water changes. I was forced to use the untreated water from the outside tap for my water changes. This made things really difficult in the winter so I would boil huge quantities of water to control the temperature. As cold water from the hose was entering the tank I would carefully pour the hot water into the tank. I used my largest crypt as the target for the hot water input just after the water level rose above that plant. Not the most elegant solution, but that's how I know how tough crypts are. Given enough CO2/nutrients they are bulletproof...

Cheers,


----------



## Nelson (30 Jan 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

right  .thought you was blanching them to put in your salad   .


----------



## tyrophagus (12 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

UP Aqua atomiser installed. I've seen a big improvement in flow. I think I'm imagining things but the bba algae on some leaves seems to be turning into "pepper corns" if you know what I mean.  It's only been about 4 days.


----------



## tyrophagus (12 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

A video.  just have to get that hair grass growing


----------



## George Farmer (12 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Great little video of a lovely 'scape!

I like the high amount of surface movement, giving you nice glitter lines.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## LondonDragon (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Great looking tank, made even better by the video, great work, congrats


----------



## tyrophagus (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Thanks George and LondonDragon that means a lot coming from great scapers as yourselves   

I'm still having problems with my crypts melting.  I've been told it's just down to co2 but having changed to the UP Aqua atomiser and increased my flow to more than required I am surprised that I still lose 20 leaves or so after every weekly water change.  Has to be more to this than just CO2.  

I'm wondering if I'm over filtering and losing N.  I have a eheim pro3 2076 full of sintered glass.  I dose EI for a 300l on a 200l tank.


----------



## LondonDragon (16 Feb 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

How long have the crypts been in the tank? Have you moved them recently? Crypts have a tendency to melt if you uproot them and replant, even if they have been in the tank for ages, best to plant and leave alone


----------



## J Butler (26 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Hi Tyrophagus,

First of all I'd just like to thankyou for the excellent Journal you have put together, I've been lurking around the forums for a little while now and I'm about to take the plunge and revamp my sorry looking aquarium, I've come back to this on numerous occasions as an excellent resource!   

I hope the tank has settled down now as I know you've had quite a journey with it, any chance of a quick update?   

I did have a question for you, when you were addressing the flow issues and introduced the second loop for your heater and CO2, you mentioned that you then fed this through your main spraybar. Did you plumb in both your external filter and external pump into your spraybar? (if so, could you outline how if it's not too much trouble) Or are you now running two outlets, one for each pump?


----------



## collins (27 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Brilliant scape!...name suits it well!!!!


----------



## tyrophagus (27 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				J Butler said:
			
		

> Hi Tyrophagus,
> 
> First of all I'd just like to thankyou for the excellent Journal you have put together, I've been lurking around the forums for a little while now and I'm about to take the plunge and revamp my sorry looking aquarium, I've come back to this on numerous occasions as an excellent resource!
> 
> ...



Thanks Mate

I've been meaning to update the journal for a while.  It's been a bit of a journey of discovery for me.  I seem to have solved my crypt melt and algae problems.  I need a free moment to pen a proper post and I will soon.

The crypt melt was solved by adding magnesium to each water change.

I have 2 separate loops and 2 separate spraybars.  One sits at the top of the tank and is driven by the powerhead the other is at the substrate level and points up the back wall of the tank and is driven by the filter.  I've been wondering myself whether to plumb them both into the top spray bar.

This is a crappy phone photo


----------



## roadmaster (28 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Crypt's are looking much better!
 Am keenly interested in the spray bar and what material it is made up of.
 Am trying to rid my tank of rather ugly Eheim green spraybar and wondering what could be used or purchased to allow me to do away with this spray bar.
Would like rigid material so that I could drill holes to my liking and thus maybe get a little more flow from my 2217 on low tech tank.Vinyl tubing I have tried looks white and is too flexible.
Many thanks in advance for any suggestion's from member's .
My apologies if question has been answered previously.


----------



## J Butler (28 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				roadmaster said:
			
		

> Crypt's are looking much better!
> Am keenly interested in the spray bar and what material it is made up of.
> Am trying to rid my tank of rather ugly Eheim green spraybar and wondering what could be used or purchased to allow me to do away with this spray bar.
> Would like rigid material so that I could drill holes to my liking and thus maybe get a little more flow from my 2217 on low tech tank.Vinyl tubing I have tried looks white and is too flexible.
> ...



Hi Roadmaster,

The link below should take you to the section of the journal regarding the spraybar (i'm hoping to try something similar also   )

Tyrophagus' DIY Spraybar

The tanks filling out nicely it seems! I'm loving the cryptocoryne wendtii brown, certainly gives it that swampy feel that the scapes name seems to suggest you're going for. 
I might open a topic regarding any pitfalls arising when plumbing two pumps into one outlet, my grasp of flow dynamics is somewhat lacking!


----------



## roadmaster (29 Jul 2011)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

Many  Thanks for the link!


----------



## greenink (15 Aug 2011)

*Swamp Creek*

This is a really helpful journal - I have a Grobeam and have suspected for a while that it's not producing enough light. Would you still go with LEDs if you were starting again? I guess with a PAR meter it means you can get it bang on... And the shimmer is nice. 

Am going to copy your pump / diffuser / heater set-up - makes so much more sense than spending £££ on a larger filter. 

Thames water have checked their non-published tests for me and found that Mg is low in east London. So they do have the data, if you're interested. Posted it somewhere in my journal but don't have the link to hand. 

Keep us informed - and would love to see you trying a bit of HC in there - would be a good test of the LEDs.


----------



## darren636 (23 Mar 2012)

*Re: Swamp Creek*

how did you arrive at the magnesium solution for your crypt melt?  thought ei dosed for that- is your tap water low in mag? Great journal.


----------



## tyrophagus (9 Apr 2012)

*Swamp Creek*

Well 2 years on and I still have the same setup with a few tweaks to planting.  I'm still finding it difficult, especially getting good growth at substrate level.  I have recently made a change that has me very hopeful that it may have been a CO2 issue all along!  (it's almost always a CO2 issue Clive!  )

I changed my regulator.

Now I never thought this was an issue.  My old regulator had been with me for 10 years and seemed to work just fine, produced a mist of C02 and turned my drop checker yellow/green.  I went on holiday for 2 weeks and came back to a tank that the other half had done her best to maintain.  It was full of spirogyra and flilamentous algae!  When I cleaned it up I realised the co2 was not working and it turned out to be a blocked regulator.  I replaced it.

I nearly killed my fish, three times!  Then I did kill some fish!  Stupid. but the new regulator took some tweaking.

For some reason the new reg seemed to add more co2 to the tank at the same bubbles per second.  This is anecdotal of course and I had no way to measure co2 except the drop checker and my fish.   While I could use the previous regulator and have a yellow drop checker with healthy fish, if this reg gets the drop checker near yellow the fish struggle.

So I keep the drop checker green now.  Fish are fine and the plants have started to grow faster than before.  I used to have staurogyne growing but the older bottom leaves died and it became leggy, I'd replant it and the same would happen.  What's changed is the older leaves seem to be surviving better and for the first time ever they produce side shoots!

I reckon it's down to a dodgy regulator. 

4 months ago I added an extra aqua ray nd1000 tile, so now I have 3 over a 45x45x90.  They run at 65% output but I get a better spread of light.  This change did not produce any improved growth, but I thought I should point out an additional change that was made.

The tank is no longer in the kitchen but has been moved to a wall in the lounge 2m from some bifolding doors opening up to the garden.  There's loads of light in the area.  I have suffered from algae issues, especially flilamentous types and recently bba.  

I'll keep you posted on the algae issue now I think I have my co2 sorted.  I'll also get some pics up and explain my easy water change system.

Later..


----------



## tyrophagus (9 Apr 2012)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> how did you arrive at the magnesium solution for your crypt melt?  thought ei dosed for that- is your tap water low in mag? Great journal.



Darren EI only doses for Mg if you add it as magnesium sulphate or Epsom salts.  Normal EI relys on the magnesium in your water.  Because I have rock hard water I thought Mg would be high but I cannot get info out of water supplier.  Ca must be high given the state of my kettle.  

I added Mg as a trial and found a big difference in the melting of the crypts.  I still get some melt. Probably about 10% of the melt I used to get, and it's still associated with water changes.  Where befor I would lose entire plants to melting I now get the odd plant that loses a few leaves.


----------



## tyrophagus (9 Apr 2012)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> This is a really helpful journal - I have a Grobeam and have suspected for a while that it's not producing enough light. Would you still go with LEDs if you were starting again? I guess with a PAR meter it means you can get it bang on... And the shimmer is nice.



Mike that's a question I have asked myself over and over.  Then recently I went out and bought and extra tile.  I suppose I'm committed to them as I've spent the cash.  I have often wondered if my problems are down to them, however I think they produce all the light needed, my problems are elsewhere as they never run at max output.

I have three tiles over a 180 l and they run at 65 % for 5 hours a day.

I like the fact I can adjust the output and I like the fact that they are environmentally friendly with low energy consumption and low heat ( less wasted energy )

I'd use them again.  I just wish they looked smarter.


----------



## ceg4048 (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: Swamp Creek*



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> Well 2 years on and I still have the same setup with a few tweaks to planting.  I'm still finding it difficult, especially getting good growth at substrate level.  I have recently made a change that has me very hopeful that it may have been a CO2 issue all along!  (it's almost always a CO2 issue Clive!  )


Only 95.44% of the time mate.  
Morpheus to Neo: I can only _show_ you the door, you must walk through it.

Cheers,


----------



## darren636 (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: Swamp Creek - 23 months later*

morpheus  to  plant  'you  think  thats'  carbon  dioxide  youre'  breathing  now?'     (curious  noise)   interesting....


----------



## tyrophagus (5 Jun 2012)

*Swamp Creek - new position for tank*

Hi Folks.  An update on the tank which has not been rescaped in 2 years.  I did a bit of renovating last year about this time and if I think back it was a very stressful dusty period.  We decided to extend the lounge and create a new bedroom upstairs in the process.  It worked out great.

Best of all I got to plan a new site for my tank in the lounge.  It used sit on the dresser in the Kitchen.  

This picture shows us somewhat into the build, the area outside the doors used to be patio




Doors out and you are looking at the new site for the tank




Plumbing installed!  A hot and cold water supply plus a drain to the outside and 2 double sockets




A channel installed to run cables from lights behind the plasterboard




Measurements taken for custom cabinet


----------



## tyrophagus (5 Jun 2012)

*Swamp Creek - moved to new site*

So I'm pleased with my new tank position.  I get to sit on the couch opposite, look out into the garden or at my tank.

The tank is plumbed into the mains via a mixer tap to get just the right water temperature.  The tank is also plumbed into an outside drain.  No more carrying water, no more hose pipes and water all over the kitchen floor.  Its a manual setup in that I have to open a tap to drain the tank, then open a tap to fill the tank.  It's such hard work   

These pictures were taken with my phone (I'm inherently a lazy person)


----------



## awtong (5 Jun 2012)

What a cracking set up.  I love the forward planning for the water changes.

Andy


----------



## tyrophagus (5 Jun 2012)

*RIP Malcolm*

I don't want to depress anyone but I thought as this journal documents the progress of Swamp Creek its only fitting that I should add RIP Malcolm, the cat wearing the jumper in the first photo of this journal.  He was the first living creature in my tank!  Unfortunately we made the decision to euthanase him yesterday as he was starting to struggle with his medical condition.  Dysautonomia stops you from producing tears and nasal secretions and amongst other things causes your eosophagus to dilate so you can't swallow.  He was a brave lad and will be missed.


----------



## spyder (5 Jun 2012)

Tanks looking good. Wish I had easy mode water changes.

Sorry to hear about Malcolm.


----------



## darren636 (5 Jun 2012)

oh man ... What a beautiful kitten


----------



## Dexie (5 Jun 2012)

Fantastic looking tank  

Sorry about your cat it is always so hard to say goodbye, but it's the last gift we can give to a pet we love to know when to say enough -  very sad


----------



## mvasingh (5 Jun 2012)

Hi
With your AquaGro GroBeams, are you getting a lot of light spilling out around the tank as well?

MIKE


----------



## tyrophagus (7 Jun 2012)

Mike I don't get a lot of light spill, the position is slightly higher than some may have.  I have found this gives the best spread of light into the tank with a better spread.  They are nice lights, easy to control intensity.  

I must get my proper camera out and get some better pics


----------



## RossMartin (14 Jun 2012)

So do you think the TMC tiles are worth using or would you suggest T5 lighting?


----------



## Little-AL (15 Jun 2012)

Stunning tank! Not a massive fan of graceless tanks personally but that looks great with the tiles over it.
Fits in to the room really nicely!


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?o5ybcp


----------



## Aqua sobriquet (18 Jun 2012)

Great looking tank. Very sorry to hear about Malcolm, was the jumper to help his condition?!


----------



## sanj (18 Jun 2012)

Aww, so sad about your pussy.


----------



## AndyVox (18 Jun 2012)

I love the amount of thought that has gone into water changes. I imagine that makes things so much easier.
I'm fed up of carting drums of water through the house and spilling it all over the lounge!

Tank looks brilliant too.
Sorry to hear about Malcolm, it sounds as though it was for the best given the circumstances, better than being in pain.


----------

