# Discus FRY!



## Dan Crawford (9 Sep 2007)

Hey hey, well as you may no the other week i had some discus eggs.......well now i have fry!
That puts to bed the idea that you can't breed discus in anything but RO or HMA, i don't even declorinate my water (only coz i've ran out) let alone run it throuht countless prefilters and membranes.
Anyway, i'll let you know if they stay alive, it's early days yet.

Woo hoo!


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## rfriday9 (9 Sep 2007)

Congrats, BigDanne. I've been tempted by Dicus myself. I do have a RO unit but have stayed away from them because 

1. I can't decide which ones I want 
2. They come with a difficulty rating 
3. They fight each other 
4. They like a high tempreture (too expensive)

You appear to have quashed some of my fears. Congrats again, can't wait to see the pics.


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## James Flexton (9 Sep 2007)

congratulations mate thats great news. fingers crossed for the little ones.
i've always shied away from discus because of the RO thing. how hard is your water as i may consider discus for my new tank if it's an option without RO.


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## Dan Crawford (10 Sep 2007)

Hi guys, thers nothing to worry about i recon. I've kepth them for less than a year though so i don't have too much evidence of that but either way they must have been happy to have spawned.

My PH is 7.2 and the GH is 14! apparently they wont breed unless the GH is less then 6. THe temp is 30 degrees C.

The RO thing worried me too, i was gong for HMA instead anyway due to the wastage that come with RO.
I do class myself as a good fish keeper but i've done nothing more to this tank than anyone else would have, ie. 50% water changes once a week, good food - frozen beef heart, Gramma discus diet, tetra prima and some tetra min flake. Thats it, there really nothing to be scared of and i never thought of the running costs with regard to the higher temp, shorley the 3 degrees higher thatn the average tropical tank wouldn't make too much difference?

Anyway thanks for the support guys i'll keep you informed.


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## beeky (10 Sep 2007)

I've never really understood why Discus need such a high temperature. Far as I know they come from the same kind of waters as Angelfish and cardinals and they're happy at 26C or so. The high initial purchase has always put me off. I bought a shoal of panda corys and 4 of those died in the first two days (dodgy batch I reckon). If something like happened to discus at Â£30 a pop, I'd be most displeased!!


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## Dan Crawford (10 Sep 2007)

The cost of the fish isn't nearly Â£30 if you go to a local breeder of which there are loads then you can get the highest quality fish youve ever seen for about Â£15! I use GB Discus in Kettering and they are great. The price obviously goes up with the fish size and if you wanted a full grown 8" discus you will have to pay through the nose but i prefer to "grow" them myself. I buy them at around 2.5 inches and they grow quick. If you go to LFS' then you will pay through the nose for generally poor fish IME. 
You don't get fish like this from LFS' or certainly not any LFS i've been to.






They will sell you a poor quality red turk at 4" for in excess of Â£65 where as GB Discus would charge you about Â£22.50.


> (dodgy batch I reckon)


You wouldn't get a dodgy batch from a reputable dealer.

I know that Â£15 "for a fish" is still expensive but they are well worth it, i spent more than that on a 3" plec and may as well have hidden Â£15 under a log in the garden!


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## Ed Seeley (10 Sep 2007)

beeky said:
			
		

> I've never really understood why Discus need such a high temperature. Far as I know they come from the same kind of waters as Angelfish and cardinals and they're happy at 26C or so.



They don't.

It is a common practise by some breeders as in theory it reduces the potency of some diseases, especially white spot and possibly some flagellate protozoan infections.  As they had success 'over-driving' their discus others have, quite logically, copied them.

Bear in mind keeping them at elevated levels constantly will shorten their lives, as it would to any fish not naturally living in such hot water.

Well done Danne.  They are cichlids and if there's any group of fish that can adapt to different waters and everything else it's them!  Well done mate, get some brineshrimp going to really get them growing!
Are they both Solid Blue or is the other parent different?  Will get some great looking babies I'm sure!


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## Dan Crawford (10 Sep 2007)

Hi Eds,


> Are they both Solid Blue or is the other parent different?



they are the two in the picture, a blue diamond and a red pigeon blood. 


> Get some brineshrimp going to really get them growing!


Your right, i'm gonna have to start hatching BBS and set up another tank! Here we go!!
Should be fun.


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## Dan Crawford (13 Sep 2007)

Right, bad news! All the fry have been eaten. The parents we too busy fighting with the other 2 discus to notice that every time there back was turned a barrage of cardinals decended on the spawning site. I got one picture of a fry and i'd taken the shot ad was still lookin throught the view finder and cardinal can up an swipped him. GUTTED!
THe parents have abandoned the site so i'm guessin all the fry are gone now. Shame really. Oh well i might set up a bare bottomed tank and see how they go. They seem to just fight with everone else anyway.
Heres the only photo i managed to get.


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## rfriday9 (13 Sep 2007)

You'd never believe they'd grow into those big beasts would you. Nice


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## Fred Dulley (13 Sep 2007)

Wow, that's really good news. Breeding Discus in hard water, that's got to be a record!


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## Ed Seeley (13 Sep 2007)

Bad luck mate.  Cardinals are ace fry eaters.  In fact, if I remember rightly, fry form a large part of the contents of gut analysis of wild cardinals at the right times of the year!  Why I keep all of mine away from the cichlid breeding tanks - Spotted Kribs managed to keep them at bay though and raise 80+ babies!

I hope you so set up a new tank, but there's no reason to keep it bare IMHO, but then you're the one who's bred them!!!


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## Dan Crawford (13 Sep 2007)

Cheers mate, if i do set up another tank it will be purely for breeding those two and probably in my shed or at work maybe coz i have no room in my building site of a house so i don't want to put a lot of effort into setting up a nice tank for what might be a waste of time? I'm hoping if the breeding doesnt work out then i can put them back in the original tank and the time spent away may have altered the pecking order. We'll see. Spare tank at the ready!!


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## Dan Crawford (18 Sep 2007)

Hello, well they are breeding again. I have more eggs, they have layed them on the scabbiest piece of wood in the world but they have layed them so that i can see which is great so here is a pic.




The area of the tank that they have layed them in is in such a place where i might be able to put a divider in to protect the fry from the cardinals. We'll see. Anyway, i hope you like and i'll keep you informed of any further developments.


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## James Flexton (18 Sep 2007)

thats great mate the last occasion wasn't a one off then. good luck with them. nice picture. is the blue one "mummy"


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## Dan Crawford (18 Sep 2007)

Cheers mate, the last time all the cardinals ate the eggs! DOH!


> is the blue one "mummy"


hard to tell, it had a stumpy vent popping out (you can just about see in the pic) but i'm sure the other one had one too so can't really tell. Some evidence says the blue would be the father but some says otherwise so i am pretty stuck.


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## Ed Seeley (19 Sep 2007)

The female will have a rounded, or blunt ended spawning tube when spawning, while the males will be more pointed.  But good luck spotting that while they're 'busy'!


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## Dan Crawford (19 Sep 2007)

> But good luck spotting that while they're 'busy'!


Tell me about it!


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## Themuleous (19 Sep 2007)

Excellent work, just goes to show what can be achieved in planted tanks in addition to a great scape!

Sam


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## Dan Crawford (25 Sep 2007)

*More eggs*

Hi guys, you might have guessed that the last eggs were unsucessfull (well you'd have known about it if they were sucessfull!) There were 3 unfertilised eggs in the clutch and they grew fungus which in turn infected the rest very quickly, the parents then ate the eggs. In time the parents learn to remove these infected eggs but these parents are only young. You may have notice the increased amount of eggs.
I have gotten a good shot of the breeding tube of the male(?), let me know if you agree whether or not this is a "pointed" tube.




Here is the male passing over the eggs.




here is the female passing over the eggs with daddy coming coming to investigate the camera.




Here are the pair and there eggs.




Here are the father and one of my other discus squaring up, the father (right) is about to get his ass kicked as always........




........until mom comes in to help!




I hope this is an interesting insite into the habits of young discus and there owner?
I know of one person that has been inspired (jimboo) and i hope that more of you would consider discus since i can assure you that they don't live up to the bad reputation as "the fussiest fish in the world"

Cheers
Dan


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## James Flexton (25 Sep 2007)

Nice update Dan. my tank is on route as we speak. looking at discus now on the net to pass the time. i will wait a good 3 months before buying any to make sure any early fluctuations are out the way. i was thinking of 6 young'uns at once as i will have a ton of cardinals in the tank by then and i dont want the discus to view them as lunch. rather expensive live food lol.  inspired for sure i'm really enjoying this thread. thanks mate.


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## Ed Seeley (25 Sep 2007)

Not totally sure about the sex of the male based on the spawning tube, but looking at the pics on their behavious I'm pretty sure you are right that the male is that one.  Generally males will do most territory defending while the female fusses over the little ones!

As soon as I get a big enough tank a decent group of wild discus is top of my wish list!  Preferably red-spotted greens!


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## Ivan (15 Oct 2007)

Hi all, I know this is only my second post but I thought I'd share some info on Discus.
If discus want to spawn they will, regardless of temp pH and hardness. If you find you have a pair of fish that are supposed to be a pair that are not doing it for you then you can play with the water chemistry to help them along. The advice is normally softer than soft water and a pH as low as 5. If you are really serious about breeding these fish then you will condition them in stable neutral water to prevent them from spawning. This doesn't always work and the fish will spawn anyway to anoy you.
Then you will slowly lower the hardness and pH to maximise the best results. That said, David Lim the creator of the Crimson spotted and Scarlett spotted and other strains of discus formerly of Fishio Tribe, bred and fixed his strains of discus in hard Singaporean tap water - chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals and all. a pH of 8 and a hardness of 14 German degrees. Have a search on google for scarlett or crimson spotted discus - very pretty creatures!


Temp. 
Probably one of the hotter topics in discus keeping (did you see what I did there?). I keep them at 29C. I once tried to raise a few discus in regular temps, for some reason it didn't work, they didn't grow well, developed HITH, grew emaciated and died. They do not need to be kept at 30C, but I wont keep them lower than 28C, and they love water change day where I directly fill the tank from the cold HMA feed. I'm not sure what the temp drops to, but it isn't there for long.
One thing I have learned in all aspects of fishkeeping is what might work for you might not work for me and vice versa. So have a crack at discus and do it how you feel it should be done. But, most of the ideas about discus temps are there because people have already tried and failed with lower temps.

Sexing.
Discus are easy to sex if you know what to look for. Personally I ignore finnage shapes, unlike some. I recon you can tell by looking at them head on. If you take two fish of the same, or even similar strain, say a Red Turquoise and a snakeskin type the male will have a thicker top lip than the female. To confirm you can take a look at the vent from bellow, the female will have a V shape to her while the male will have a small o shape, for further confirmation, the female will lay the eggs and the male will fertilise them


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## Dan Crawford (17 Oct 2007)

thanks for the advise mate, all sounds good.
i'll keep you informed of any changes.


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