# Fluval Roma 200 Light Upgrade T5HO, Will this work?



## Jafooli

*Hey everyone, *

I've had my Fluval Roma 200 for nearly over a year now, and my interest in plants has kind of gone tbh, since things just don't grow that great at the end of the day. It was exactly the same with my Fluval Roma 90. I've also had issues with fish gasping due to CO2, so I stopped that all together last year. I wasn't noticing any fast growth or anything amazing like everyone else's tanks on here anyway. I have got use to the fact of having low light and at one point didn't mind as I kind of learnt you can grow any plant in any light it will just be much slower. I do still add ferts now and then but its got to the point now where I'm bored and depressed with the T8's, nothing exciting ever happens with any of my plants. My largest and best plant is a Java fern all though that has BBA on it lol. The best plants should be my bulbs, or even a nice healthy hygrophila would be nice, I cant even grow echinodorus varieties, they arrive healthy then do nothing then die, while yes nutrients help but imo seems to just prolong the inevitable.

Anyway I was hoping someone could give me some reassurance really or any opinions on this easy as they come upgrade? I'd like to state I am useless at DIY, my dad knows nothing lol, and if I learn anything DIY based its from my Mum. I can stick a shelf up etc but unfortunately doing DIY on my tank hood is a bit to daunting. I don't want to start opening it up and sticking a T5 ballast in. I would also have no idea how to wire it safely. I cant have a over tank luminaire as my tank is next to my tv and I think the brightness might be a bit distracting. Honestly I have done so much research in the past and really cant see my self doing any DIY, I even thought about phoning around local electricians to see if they might take on the job, but if they broke my light unit or scratched it etc id kind of be depressed as I like it all in perfect condition lol. This would probably also make the tank harder to sell in the future if they did a bad job.

I did look into the TMC GroBeam 600 Ultima Twin, and was going to use a MMS rail in between my existing T8 end caps, but my Fluval Roma 200 has a bracing bar in the middle, and when doing the measurements it seems the LED's would hit this as there to long. If I had the Fluval Roma 240 I think they might of worked.

Another alternative with the GroBeams is maybe I could attach them to the lid flaps of my tank as there positioned higher up so then the LED strips would avoid the brace bar, but I'm not sure how much they weigh, the flaps are quite bendy anyway. It might also be a problem feeding the wires of the front flap led to the back of the tank, and also feeding the fish and water changes might become a bit more challenging. If the tank was in another room then I guess I could of somehow attached them to a piece of wood on two brackets or something, but I want to keep it all in the hood.

I have found this upgrade which looks very simple, If someone with more knowledge and experience could have a look at this for me I would really appreciate it. I hope you can tell me if you think there may be any problems that I've not seen. I also planned on not having the T8's running. I presume if all goes to plan I should see a large improvement? I did have a look at the light chart on here, and with about 18inches depth and T5HO it should put me between med/high light? which at the moment the graph says I'm just below having low light lol.

The upgrade I plan on doing: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/400038-fluval-roma-lighting-upgrade/

*Light Graph*
http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss176/Hoppycalif/PARvsDistVariousBulbs2.jpg

I always seem to make an essay for such small questions so apologies lol, but just wanted to double check on this forum as I know everyone here knows there stuff. I also hope I'm allowed to post that link.

I just want to have a tank with higher light, I'm not to bothered if I cant dim the light etc as I just want a tank with more light for once. Id rather have algae than having plants that look half dead, or take months to do anything. I'm also kind of interested in breeding plecos at the moment, so I'm sure they wouldn't mind the algae but any opinions on this would be great also, as I don't want an algae infestation obviously but don't mind a challenge. 

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes there time to help me, but I do want to emphasis that I think I'm useless at DIY. I know nothing but if you have an easy idea then go ahead. 

I also worked out with 2x t5 lights included this should cost just under £100. So its real cheap and if it don't work I won't feel like jumping of a bridge  lol jokes, lobbing something out the window might work.


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## naughtymoose

Jafooli

I've been considering upgrading the lights on my Fluval Roma 240L which is arriving on Thursday.

I've decided that if necessary, I'll add some Interpet LEDs. They do several lengths in single/double and even triple (I think). They should be quite easy to fix to either the underside of the lighting unit or maybe along the inside of the glass at the front, where the hood trim is. Fitting to the glass would be favourite, as there will be heat coming off the T8 fitting.

Personally, I wouldn't fanny about trying to modify the lighting by fitting T5's and new control gear etc. I'm an electrician/inspector retired on medical grounds- I don't like electricity at the best of times (scare the living daylights out of me, and I've got SOME idea about what I'm doing ).

Why not have a look and see if they would fit?

Hope this helps!

PS Please don't fiddle about with electrickery if you don't know what you are doing, it has a nasty habit of going bang!


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## Jafooli

Hey naughtymoose

Thanks for the quick reply,

I've never heard of the Interpet LEDs, so I just had a quick look and found some reviews from Amazon and they look quite good.
I also see they come with sticky pads, but there not that great 

I will have to do some more research on them, but they seem very good. Do these give of more light than T8s?


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## naughtymoose

I think they do. Not sure about the colour temp etc, but they may be useful. I'm going to have a blue strip on a timer to simulate a day/night transition too.

You could always get more sticky pads!


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## EnderUK

Have you tried buying some cheap t8 tubes from the various online lamp shops? The Fluval lamps look a bit dim but they'll grow whatever you want, you could also get a set of decent reflectors to bump the PAR up a little. I hacked my Roma to fit a t5 ballast in the hood, it's pretty simple and water tight if you use cable gromets to seal the wiring. I use T5NO rather than T5HO so my par is at t8 levels anyways and it's more than enough light so was kind of a wasted exercise.


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## ian_m

I changed my Juwel Vision 180 T8 lighting unit to the newer T5 unit, £100 odd from Ebay, rather than faff with LEDs' and/or clip on T5 lights. I could imagine the clipped on T5 tubes and/or LED's on flaps being a real pain in the asre at water change/tank fiddling time, so just went for the Juwel T5 unit. Open box, place unit on tank, turn on, job done.

T5 is much brighter, if my flow wasn't so high, most plants start pearling towards end of light period and growth is certainly faster than T8. Did suffer from algae when I first switched over as I initially failed to rotate the reflectors round, to reduce the change in light level. So rotated reflectors round, cleaned away algae and after couple of months started increasing the light level and no algae.


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## roadmaster

I switched from T8 bulbs to T5 over my low tech but had to raise the fixture considerably high over my tank to avoid the algae.
More light means more demand for CO2 and nutrient's.
Sure you can flood the tank with uber lighting but if  you cannot, or will not be adding more CO2,then you will have gained little.
CO2 in my low tech is what it is by natural process (bacterial activity,and by- product of fish respiration).
I also add nutrient's weekly at  level that favors the plant's judging from their growth which I measure in weeks,month's.(is difference between low tech and high tech to me).
This leaves only lighting that defines the growth of plant's and algae.
So long as I do not use too much light,,the algae does not appear.


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## Jafooli

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies,

Ender I have only ever used the tubes that came with the tank, on my old Roma 90 I did try a Power Glo / Life Glo combo but there wasn't much difference. I could buy lamps from somewhere else that might be a option, however I'm fed up and just want more light. I would rather be back on this site creating a thread saying help algae outbreak lol, although I would then be told to raise lights or to rotate the reflectors which in this case I wouldn't be able to do lol.

Ian I'm not sure I could do what you did, the Fluval Roma's have this nasty little rim around the tank which is curved so it kind of makes all upgrades complicated. I presume this is why everything Fluval Roma based is about some kind of DIY upgrade. The current light unit does rest upon a tiny lip so I guess if the Juwel unit was the same size and could also rest on the tiny lip it would work, but not sure if its worth the risk to find out it don't fit.

I do think the LEDS mentioned from naughtymoose might be a good idea, but it does look like it might be hard finding the correct place for them. I also don't know how much light it would give me as there not in the graph above.

I am worried though as like ian said having any lights added could make maintenance a bit harder. I must admit I don't remove my light unit when doing maintenance, its heavy, bulky, if it slips from my hand its broke lol. So I just slide it either side of tank and do my work. If I attach the T5's to the T8's I cant see it making maintenance that much harder, from the pictures they don't stick out that much at all, infact both bulbs fit inside the metal reflector so it should be all snug, but hey what do I know. My concern would be the lighting unit bowing from the extra weight as its bowed ever so slightly already.

I appreciate everyones advice, please keep it coming. At the moment I still think the upgrade in the link above looks like the safest option and its not over expensive. It would only cost £50 if you don't include the T5 tubes, but like I say I'm worried something might not go to plan.

I don't want to go of topic, but is T5 really that bad for algae? like I said I've kind of lost interest due to my lights. The only algae I see is BBA, apart from that I have to take a visit to my pond to remember what algae looks like lol. I would ideally like to just dose EI without CO2. I don't mind using liquid carbon if needed. Could this not be achieved? I've forgotten a lot over the last year or so, but surely people do genuinely buy tanks out there with T5's and they have no idea about EI , CO2 etc. They must have something good to say about there new tanks, surely it wouldn't be a algae farm? If I purchased the correct plants for the new light level surely it would be the same process at just a faster rate, I could also include some floating plants to help reduce light. I cant see myself being happy with T8's. *I'm not sure if I'm genuinely doing something wrong*, or is there actually a possibility that my tank is not well suited for plants as I'm not the only one with a Fluval Roma who has learnt to hate the lights.

My girlfriends Fluval Ebi shrimp tank looks amazing, and this is low tech, low light, and no nutrients. The growth is much slower in her tank, but all her plants are healthy, vibrant, even the reds are nice. The plants look real happy and healthy. I obviously don't want my tank to be as slow as that, but I've hardly ever had happy plants in my Roma and I've tried so many types, all recommended for low light, and I know plants can grow in any light, but I don't think there happy in my tank for some reason.


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## ian_m

This is the other way, replace the electrics with T5 version. You can also get dimmable T5 ballasts as well.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/fluval-roma-200-–-lighting-upgrade-to-t5ho.15207/

I have replaced ballasts in Juwel unit before, had to cut it open. The link above has done it right, cutting it open from the top, where it is "dry", as I was unable to 100% seal any openings I made that were inside the hood near the water, eventually water got in and corroded things. Silicone, most glues etc does not stick the plastic Juwel use, eventually water leaking past.



Jafooli said:


> is T5 really that bad for algae


T5 lights have nothing to do with algae, many people successfully grow algae with T8 tubes, standard light bulbs etc. It's just that T5 produces more light and if not managed correctly with ferts (and carbon source) may produce algae. 



Jafooli said:


> I would ideally like to just dose EI without CO2. I don't mind using liquid carbon if needed. Could this not be achieved?


Yes you can dose EI and use liquid carbon.
For example this, 5ml every day will last you 200days.
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/neutro-co2-medium-p-6377.html

Liquid carbon can also be used kill BBA. Also be careful as liquid carbon can melt some sensitive plants.


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## Jafooli

Hey Ian

That's great cheers for the reply.

I got to be honest though, I really can not see myself replacing the ballast. To start off I would be upset if I broke or scratched the top of my tank, and then actually replacing the ballast seems quite hard, especially the bit with the wiring. If I wasn't so ocd and had the money to lose I would love to give it a try. I just want to keep it simple as unfortunately me and my family are not that good at DIY  Between me and you I blame my dad.  He does nothing in the house not even painting, so me and my mum do everything DIY based. However he has a thing about changing bulbs in the house when they blow, but yet knows nothing about lights what a coincidence. I mean who doesn't know how to change a bulb. 

I hope with the correct plants I can find the correct balance, if I avoided CO2 and Carbon wouldn't the plants just adjust to the level of CO2 which would be provided from surface agitation. In my head I plan to add many types of different plants. If my plants started to respond to the higher light, and nutrients are still provided, then algae would not be able to attack them. I should really do some more research on med-high light low tech tanks. I'm not ruling out CO2 its just I seem to get bad things happen to my fish when I go down that route, even with liquid carbon under dosed I lose fish.

I would however be smiling for a year if I added CO2 and witnessed pearling or even achieved a planted tank like members on here, but I don't want to start dreaming about something that won't happen. I just want a tank where plants can grow and actually look like a plant, not a single stem which takes months to grow and you can tell its grown tall and bare because its trying to reach the light. It then eventually reaches the top of the tank and starts sending out leafs and other stems with leafs in all directions, as if its sending runners out at the surface level and not at the bottom.

I've also noticed this with my crypts they send runners out above the crypt, they snap off then float around the tank. I also have left my hygrophila's to grow, and eventually the thick growth at the top bends the stem down, it then sends all these runners up on the stem. I could cut this off and plant it, but then it does nothing. If I leave it so the runners are mid way up the tank they shoot off and grow fast. In theory the higher a plant grows in my tank the more you see its beauty. Once the big leafs die, it seems like the plants struggle to get a new shoot out, and if they do its really tiny, and in the end it dies. I'm convinced its my light but yet people have succeeded where I cant.


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## Another Phil

Hi Jafooli,


Jafooli said:


> The upgrade I plan on doing: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/400038-fluval-roma-lighting-upgrade/


If you do this, make sure you buy the right length tube(s) for your tank first and then buy the starter ballast unit to match it. ie. T5 and T8 wattages and lengths are not like-for-like, so you don't want to wire in a 30W T5 ballast and then discover 30wT5 tubes are too long!
You can get adapters to fit T5 tubes into T8 endcaps But I guess you can't see your ballast unit to see if it covers a range of wattages? I had a ballast unit that was 30-36W which gave me various options.

as naughtymoose says, electrics bite; wires have a habit of going under what you are drilling! (or mowing) {and electrical-test screwdrivers only work if the diode/led isn't broken...} .

cheers phil


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## Jafooli

Hey Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

My current ballast is 30w, I'm not sure if it can take anything lower I wouldn't know how to find out. Do you have a link to these end caps just so I could maybe have a read. I'm sure I found a thread once in the past where someone was trying to do what you have said, but apparently the endcaps turned out not that safe so they stopped making them type thing. I'm probably totally wrong but I'm sure I read something similar.

My current T8 30w bulb is 91cm/36" and I plan on using the same type of bulb, aka hagen power glo in this case. The T5 version will be 34" so a bit smaller and is 39w.
I also plan on using the hagen glo electronic ballast which says its best suited to use with halgen glo bulbs. I presume I could use other 39w T5 bulbs if I wished. I cant see how it can be designed specifically for glo bulbs but hey. The T5 ballast is the 39w version so should be fine I hope.

I just hope both bulbs will fit like they do in the picture, quite amazing how both bulbs fit in the reflector. I did see one guy on another forum who purchased the same T5 ballast but he chose to superglue the T5 clips to the sides of the hood and he said it holded the bulbs up fine. I presume he didn't know about the reflector idea. If it don't work out this could be a option although I don't want to ruin my hood with superglue. I think the guide looks quite idiot proof so I'm just being patient and not buying anything yet until I'm 100% sure. I didn't want to rush and buy everything just because I've seen how easy it looks.

Thanks again for covering that, I would of probably not noticed. The only reason I kind of already new is that someone on the guide at the bottom says the T5 bulbs were to long for his Fluval Roma 90. Obviously not the case for the larger Romas. 

I am however concerned about running all 4 bulbs, from what people said above the T5's might already give me an issue with algae if I'm not careful. I do plan on just running the T5's but if I did run the T8's as-well I was concerned with heat being an issue. I don't want an explosion or something lol. I was thinking maybe having them on midday for an extra burst of light, but without doing CO2 etc I guess its irrelevant but maybe an option to play with in the future if I choose to go back to CO2.


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## Another Phil

Hi Jafooli,
This pic shows T8 and T5 pin comparison - identical on aquarium lights. My LFS gave me the rubber conversion rings you see which go over the T5 tube and push into the T8 endcap. I guess O-rings 16 mm internal dia and 1" ext dia would work.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/40143719@N06/16445872915/

Someone more knowledgeable can hopefully comment but there appear to be 2 different pin spacings for T5 tubes, the same as T8 and a narrower 5mm spacing.

http://suntop001.en.ec21.com/offer_detail/Sell_t8_to_t5_adaptor--10314430.html?gubun=S
this appears narrower;

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Quick-install-plug-in-t8-to_1697049391.html?s=p
this appears to be T8-T8 spacings.

Bear in mind the plastic converters would add length.

This would only work if you match the wattage to your existing starter ballast unit, and you would have to change the clips anyway, so you are probably as well off adding new kit anyway.

hope I haven't confused things.
cheers phil

edit: deleted failed pic - left link.


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## naughtymoose

Following on from what Another Phil said... if you have an 'electrical test' screwdriver, my advice would be to throw it away!


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## Jafooli

Hey Phil

Thanks for showing me the adaptors, that route does look a bit more confusing for me and it will require more time in finding the right size tubes etc. I think i'll stick to the new ballast like you say.
Strange how one adapter says T8-T5 but like you mentioned it looks T8-T8 lol.

I am however not sure on one or two things in the guide I plan to follow, firstly he says in step 1 "You will need to purchase your own screws for this" I presume as the drill bit will be 3mm I need 3mm screws that are also small, as if there to long the reflector won't fit back into the hood.

Another worry is drilling the holes themselves, seems like it will be tad tricky as its a curved reflector but I hope I can get it nice and straight, cant be to hard.
Finally in step 2 he says "Attach your T8 clips and Screw in your T5 clips " There is nothing to screw them into apart from the reflector obviously but I guess the screws are just going to be held in position by the bulbs weight. So I'm concerned it's not going to be solid. I don't want to accidentally knock the bulb and it falls off into the tank lol. I thought it might work better if I use a small bolt screw instead if I can find anything so small.

I'm sure I would find a way for it to all work if I took a visit to bnq anyway, but they were the only things that seem the challenge especially for my lack of diy knowledge as you can now probably tell.

*Also I'm not sure if its best to make another thread for this question: but then I worry its going to get very confusing as I found out last nite:*
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128603
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/lighting/38014-lighting-spectrum-photosythesis.html

I have always used Aqua Glo and Power Glo with my Fluval Tank. I did try Life Glo / Power Glo once on my old Fluval Roma 90 and don't remember noticing much a difference.
However I thought I would try buy the best T5 bulbs, so I was thinking Life Glo and someone mentioned Zoo Med Flora sun along side it is the best combo.

I see many people have different views when it comes to all this bulb stuff. I'm not sure how important it actually is so I've never tired to learn and understand it all.
I guess some say its mainly just down to how you want the tank to look. I'm actually not sure. I have seen someone post pictures with different combinations of the glo lights in there tank.
They seemed to think the Life Glo at the back and the Power Glo at the front was the most pleasant. I'm stuck between Power Glo with Life Glo or Life Glo with Zoo Med Flora.
What bulbs does everyone here use? besides LEDS. 





.


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## EnderUK

Jafooli said:


> Hey Phil
> 
> I see many people have different views when it comes to all this bulb stuff. I'm not sure how important it actually is so I've never tired to learn and understand it all.
> I guess some say its mainly just down to how you want the tank to look. I'm actually not sure. I have seen someone post pictures with different combinations of the glo lights in there tank.
> They seemed to think the Life Glo at the back and the Power Glo at the front was the most pleasant. I'm stuck between Power Glo with Life Glo or Life Glo with Zoo Med Flora.
> What bulbs does everyone here use? besides LEDS.
> 
> .


 
I used a 880 (8000K) at the back and a 841 (4100k) at the front gives a nice balance of brightness and deep reds to my eyes. You can check out the thread here.

I got frustrated with the reflectors in my Roma 125 and ended up ditching them and screwing the t5 holders direct into the side of the ballast tray. I used M3 screws and nuts along with rubber washers. I also used some PG7 black cable glands rather then silcon to seal the cables to the ballast tray, looks a little bit more proffessional.

If you don't want to damage the hood have you thought about the aquarium ballast units that come pre assembled, you'd just have to attach the t5 tube holders. Then you'd probably just rest the ballast unit on top of the hood.


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## Another Phil

Jafooli said:


> I am however not sure on one or two things in the guide I plan to follow, firstly he says in step 1 "You will need to purchase your own screws for this" I presume as the drill bit will be 3mm I need 3mm screws that are also small, as if there to long the reflector won't fit back into the hood.


 
Hi Jafooli,
Yes, I'd use nuts and bolts like EnderUK rather than screws, once I had the T5 clips I'd see what size bolt fits them and drill that size hole. (I'm probably over cautious but I wouldn't be happy using self tapping screws on metal that heats/cools and gets moved around).
You might find it easier to use a hand-drill rather than a power-drill as you have more control.





Jafooli said:


> There is nothing to screw them into apart from the reflector obviously but I guess the screws are just going to be held in position by the bulbs weight.


 They look to be self-tapping screws so friction holds them in place. Better to use nuts and bolts to keep electrics above the water.

cheers phil


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## Jafooli

Hey EnderUK & Phil

Thanks for helping me out,

Ender I had a quick look at the thread you linked and did like the look of Sylvania Grolux + Osram Lumilux 880 Skywhite.

I'm also a bit confused as you said:





EnderUK said:


> I got frustrated with the reflectors in my Roma 125 and ended up ditching them and screwing the t5 holders direct into the side of the ballast tray.


How did you then screw the nut on? I guess you opened the top of the T8 ballast up and also stripped away the T8 caps etc? (Don't worry I read your first reply, you did state you hacked away at it so question answered lol)

Also regarding the aquarium ballast units that is what I plan to do, unless I'm missing what you mean. I also plan to just sit the unit on the top of the tank at the back unless the wires will allow it to sit on the shelf inside the cabinet.

Thanks both for the tips, I'm glad I asked now as it gives me more of a clearer picture on what I'm doing. I could always try a hand-drill like you say Phil. I was thinking maybe just marking it out with a marker pen then maybe tap a nail or something into the reflector to try make a dip then drill in, or my mum was saying something about plasters stop the drill bit slipping lol.

Anyway I best stop asking questions, don't want to make a book about a already written simple guide lol. I think I've got it all covered now.
I could even attach the lights to the inside of the rim in the tank as it has a rim which overlaps the glass, so if I could make a hole that would just work the same, but that would make maintenance even more tricky.I just hope the reflectors with both bulbs attached won't be to much of an issue when doing maintenance, not that I do much right now as nothing grows. 

EnderUK did you do exactly the same upgrade I plan to do then? as you said you got frustrated with the reflectors.

Thanks again.


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## Another Phil

Hi Jafooli,
Yep, I use a nail which works fine on tin.
Another option which would be fairly easy I imagine to attach to your reflector is the Arcadia Classica Stretch LED;
http://www.arcadia-aquatic.com/classica-stretch-led/
although I'm not sure it's as bright  as a T5 tube, and you might find the colour a little cold.
cheers phil


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## Jafooli

Cheers Phil,

I'm just looking forward to the day its all done so I can enjoy the plant side of things again.
I just had a look at the Arcadia Classica Stretch LED. I'm not sure how I would get that attached to the Arcadia T8 reflector I will be using. I presume I'm missing something you thought off lol.

I think for now I'm stick with the T5's, and then who knows maybe when I'm more confident one day I could look at LEDS. I don't want to risk the money to find out I can't fit something as I'm useless at all this DIY 
If my tank was in another room then at least I could have an open top tank which would make mounting options easier due to brackets etc. I would love to one day have a tank running TMC GroBeam 600's for example with all the day/night transitions and being able to control the brightness. I would still like to hear your idea though if you did have one, just for future reference regarding how to attach it.

Thanks again.


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## ian_m

What about these, available in numerous lengths and will plug straight into T8 connector and gives equivalent T5 output.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-led-lighting-by-aquatlantis.36060/

http://www.aquatlantis.com

By two of these, open box, plug in. Done. Watch the plants grow. Check they are available for your tube lengths.

Interestingly also available in Juwel lengths and apparently work with Juwel electronic ballasts with no mods. Nice.


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## Jafooli

Hey Ian

Thanks for finding that. I skipped the last bit you wrote and straight away clicked the link lol. I was trying to find the one that would fit my tank. It was a bit more expensive but looked promising then my mind clicked and I realized my light unit isn't centered so would need another LED for the front slot.

I've now seen you mentioned buy two of these so got my own hopes up a little as I forgot I would need a second lol. I don't want to sound cheap but truth is £320 is a bit to much for me right now. I wouldn't of minded going to £200. If I do buy some cheap T5 tubes also like the ones in the thread linked a few posts back, it would take the upgrade below £100. The T5 ballast is only £32 which i'm quite shocked about. I hope its not going to be a case of you get what you pay for.

I'm happy you found them LEDS though as I would of never known such a product is out there. I've only ever had two Fluval Roma tanks as I like the cabinet and tank but the light unit seems its downfall for me or I'm not a very good plant grower.  If I succeed with T5's and I get more confident then maybe the £320 won't be out my budget next time. Thank you again everyone.

I have not purchased any of the equipment yet but once I do and add the T5s. I will let you all know how I got on. If I do fail at it you can all have a good laugh and if if anyone in the future is rubbish at DIY like me and I do fail. Then take Ians advice above.


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## ian_m

Actually looking deeper they don't do a 39W 850mm version, looks like they are only Juwel (and other tank) lengths only. As you say not cheap...but a simple, but expensive, swap over for Juwel lengths.


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## Another Phil

Jafooli said:


> I'm not sure how I would get that attached to the Arcadia T8 reflector


 
Hi Jafooli,
I'd probably just bodge it by drilling a couple of holes either end and either side of the reflector and use some loops of wire through the holes in the reflector, looped under the LED bar to hold it tight against the reflector where the tubes were.

It's always less stressful to do what you're capable of and easy to agonise over the huge multitude of choices available , so yeah, always best to work to your strengths.

good luck phil


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## Jafooli

Hey Ian I think it would work for a Fluval Roma. My T8's are 36" and 30w and the LED is 35"

I think this one would work from what I can see:
http://www.aquariumgardens.co.uk/aquatlantis-easy-led-895---6800k-1296-p.asp "Replaces T8 Lamps: 30w"

My only concern would be if the LED strip fits nicely as the T8 end caps are close to the plastic on the light unit but I think the LEDS are not much wider than a bulb so I think they would fit.

Thanks for the reply Phil that make's sense, shame I don't have your knowledge lol, as this would all be a breeze. My mind just did not think of that  however it might be a tight fit as the brace bar could hit the LEDS. I know there is about a two to three cm gap between brace bar and bulbs. I guess someone would need to look at that but yeah I think your idea could work for someone.


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## Another Phil

and tech changes all the time...
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-led-lighting-by-aquatlantis.36060/


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## ian_m

These LED lights must be quite clever to work with Juwel ballasts, as a lot of LED lights meant to go in T5/T8 fittings specifically mention not suitable for Juwel ballasts. This is because Juwel ballasts start the lights with a 1000V pulse, before applying the voltage across the tube. This 1000V start pulse will destroy the LED electronics unless suitable protected.

Shame not much cheaper else I would rush out and buy two tomorrow for my Vision 180


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## Jafooli

Hey guys,

Just an update as everything arrived yesterday. I will try to keep this short.

I managed to drill all the holes fine, it was very simple and much easier than I thought it was going to be. So no problems there.

I also had not purchased the M3 screws as I wasn't to sure what mm I needed. I should of known from the 3mm drill bit that I would of needed 3mm but I wanted to wait to check the size of the hole on the T5 bracket. Anyway 3mm was fine so I went out to my local bnq and I had a feeling they wouldn't have what I wanted as that's my luck. I was correct they only had the 3.5mm by 16mm which I wasn't sure about. In the end I found a independent shop and he had 3mm but they were also very long. He was like you can cut them to size with pliers or whatever. I paid £2 for 10 and upon cutting them the bolt would then not screw on the ends.

In the end I just used them at full length and thought I would just change them when I purchase some smaller ones. The next issue was the guide says:
"The end caps on the starter are colour coded so you don’t mix them up" well I thought the left side did one bulb and the right side did another so was confused. My mum said it should be colour to colour so in the end I could see from his picture that they were right. Once all connected I switched it on but only one bulb come on lol, reconnected bulb and it worked next time. Reconnected bulb again just to check encase of a loose connection but came on again so all working.

Next part was a nightmare, when the guide says you need someone to help you to put the unit back on the tank you really do.
I was trying to rest the light unit on the tank and mum was holding the T5 unit, there literally is cables everywhere lol and it don't help there very short, especially the main plug cable :O.

I thought I had rested one end of the light unit but it slipped and went for a quick dip, so yeah not good. Then the main light unit started bubbling on top where its sealed, only in the corner and it smelt really bad. It did seem to be a smell of glue. It stopped after a minute or so and luckily the new T5 ends didn't seem wet. I wont be making that mistake again but it was hard trying to sit it down with wires everywhere so my own stupidity there or lack of concentration. I'm not sure why it bubbled the T8 ballast had not been switched on so it cant of been hot inside.. and the tank has loaddssss of condensation in the morning so yeah very confusing. I've yet to switch on the light unit as thought I would let it dry a bit just encase. I did switch on the T5 unit and all works great! Its such an improvement!

My next job today is to go to another bnq which online says they have the correct scews in stock. 3mm by 10mm. I have to change them as the other screws are just to long so I cant put the lid flaps on. I've also got to screw the T5 unit to the wall as I don't want it to fall into the tank when doing maintenance.

I am also concerned as the T5 tubes are only held by the T5 clips. The clips aren't the steadiest things in the world, so was just wondering if I could use cable ties on the fluorescent bulbs? as if a tube falls in then the ends caps and bulb will get soaked and it will all be a waste of money, and not sure how good fish do with electrocution lol.

So all in all the DIY side of things were very simple, but putting the light unit back on the tank and keeping cables tidy is very hard lol and maintenance will be harder from now on, but if plants start to grow then its all worth it imo. I just hope my T8 ballast still works. 

Thanks for everyone's help I will update once all done, but just wanted to know mainly about the cable ties being ok? as I don't want them melting all over the bulbs. I know the T5 clips are plastic but its very thick compared to that of a cable tie. If not I will cable tie the light caps on the ends of the bulbs to each other instead.

Thanks again.


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## ian_m

Jafooli said:


> I am also concerned as the T5 tubes are only held by the T5 clips


Might want to see if you can get metal clips, as the Juwel clear plastic clips I used were disintegrated by the UV light from my Arcadia Tropical (the slightly pink one). Clips on Freshwater lamp were fine.


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## Another Phil

Jafooli said:


> just wanted to know mainly about the cable ties being ok?


 Hi Jafooli,
No, don't use cable ties, they won't melt but they will get very brittle and then fracture after a while.  (go on, ask me how I know...! )

Well done for having a go at it, DIY gets easier the more you do it.

The T8 ballast would bubble if it still has power going to it and you dunk it in the water as that is likely to cause short-circuits, even if the bulbs themselves are switched off. (or it might be just air escaping out the casing).
cheers phil


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Another Phil said:


> No, don't use cable ties, they won't melt but they will get very brittle and then fracture after a while.(go on, ask me how I know...! )


 I've done that one as well with an "under-cabinet" T5 link light. Fortunately the light unit didn't fall in, mainly because it was still fixed with another cable tie and the link connector.  

About 3 months later the plastic body of the link light cracked as well, when I took it off all the plastic had photo-degraded (I was already a bit suspicious because the white plastic had discoloured), and it fell apart in my hands. 

The link-lights were only in use for about 18 months. 

cheers Darrel


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## Jafooli

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Ian I think I might purchase some metal clips to put in the middle just to add extra support. Do you think I should change all the other four clips to metal ones? or just keep an eye out and see how they hold in the upcoming months.

Thanks Phil for the info about the cable ties, unfortunately I've just read your message now. I decided to put cable ties on the T5 end caps and to the T8 bulb which will now have to remain off. I've put a photo below so you can see. Now I've seen your message can you tell me a alternative method? as the cable ties really have added that extra security so another similar option would be great. Regarding the bubbling when my unit went for a dip it had been switched off for half the day and was unplugged at the time. It did work this morning so fingers crossed. I hope the water just got in through the top and then it was the air escaping but it did give of a horrible smell. I couldn't see how else the water got in but lets hope the damage is not to serious.


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## Another Phil

Sorry Jafooli,
running out of ideas for a tidy alternative to cables ties; I'd probably use some stiff wire wrapped around and then twisted, but I'm a bit of a magpie so have lots of spare bits of earthing wire etc.
Glad the ballast was disconnected, that's one of the reasons naughtymoose was warning about safety!
cheers phil


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## ian_m

You can get UV resistant cable ties.

These are UV stabilised should be resistant to being attacked.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-ties/7538381/

Or these will definitely be UV resistant and everything resistant, especially at £8 each in bags of 100. 
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-ties/8327031/


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## Another Phil

ian_m said:


> especially at £8 each in bags of 100


 I just had a look and the price is £817.94, drops to £777.04 if you buy 15 bags  (or my PC has been hacked)


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## X3NiTH

How about Velcro Cable Ties!


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## ian_m

X3NiTH said:


> How about Velcro Cable Ties!


No will probably be attacked by UV from he tubes. You can get stainless steel cable ties, those would be OK.

Available in on EBay I notice for not very much.


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## Jafooli

Thanks guys for all that information,

I will probably look into buying stainless steel cable ties then. That looks the best and cheapest option.

Not sure if this question is stupid, but in the picture you can see the T5 black plastic end caps and the T8 bulb behind. In the future if I wanted to run all four tubes or even just the T8s for a midday burst or something along then lines, will the UV from the T8 bulb degrade the end caps on the T5 light? Like I say might be a stupid question but as you said the cable ties would, It got me thinking why not the end caps. I don't mind if it takes longer than a year for them to degrade. My only logic was it should be fine as the end caps are much thicker than the plastic cable tie and unlike the cable ties there not in direct contact with the bulb?

I also cant see any other heat issues that might happen unless someone else can? I'm only curious as in the future I might want to experiment with higher light levels, or mid day bursts etc. I have no idea about all that as not researched it yet, but for now the T5's I think are more than enough and i've probably got an algae battle on the way anyway lol. But if anyone can let me know if they can see any issues that might happen that would be great. Like both bulbs making each other to hot or something for example? I also presume it will be safe to switch on the T8 bulbs with stainless steel cable ties actually attached to the them.

I did a water change yesterday which is a bit more tricky now due to the reflectors and as I have 2x Fluval U4 filters next to each other it was impossible to clean the second as I normally do as the reflector was in the way. I will have to move one to the front and keep the other at the back where it is. I may also have to look into getting an external filter sometime in the summer just to free up that extra space and makes things easier. 

If I was more comfortable with DIY I would rather just rip out the T8 bulbs and caps, and somehow have the T5's attached in there place instead. This would make things simpler but I guess I would need open ballast for that and I don't want to risk doing any major damage or making it unsightly. I can see why EnderUK did this but If I get plant growth its worth the harder maintenance.

Thanks again everyone for all your help and I'm now really looking forward to seeing how my plants respond with these new lights.


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## Another Phil

Hi Jafooli,


Jafooli said:


> will the UV from the T8 bulb degrade the end caps on the T5 light?


No, not a problem.




Jafooli said:


> I also presume it will be safe to switch on the T8 bulbs with stainless steel cable ties actually attached to the them.


 I've used metal jubilee clips before without problems.



Jafooli said:


> Like both bulbs making each other to hot or something


 Shouldn't be a problem; Marine keepers often cram tubes close together.
cheers phil


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## ian_m

It would be a bit naff if the tube end caps were not UV resistant as they would degrade by the light from the tube they are holding. So are UV resistant.


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## Jafooli

Thanks for clarifying all of that for me.

I purchased some new plants yesterday which I've not had success with in the past so here's hoping.

I was also putting all macros in at one go and all micros the next day since I lost interest, but will now spread dosing out again as I read that's better.

I will also start using some of my liquid carbon again which has been unused for months. I'm start real low at 2ml as had issues with that and fish in past also.

Now just need to order the steel cable ties and some good quality root tabs and see how things go.

Thanks again.


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## Jason Wright

Hi all

First post, so don't flame me please 

My Roma 200 has been going for somewhere near 8 years using the standard hood and T8 bulbs. I've used all-sorts of different blubs, but never been able to get great plant growth. The tank has changed a lot over that time, but some of the original Crypt's are still going!

Anyway... I installed a Co2 system (from Co2 Art) over Christmas 2014 (1 bps) and started dosing 20ml Neutro+ every day. Plant growth was much better, but still not great. Today I installed a T5HO with x2 39w Full Spectrum bulbs into the standard hood, and would you believe within 4 to 5 hours one of my Java ferns started to pearl. I have never seen this from any of my plants before.

Install...

I tried to install both the T8 and T5 bulbs so they could run at the same time, but it just got too fiddly so I chose T5's only. I was also worried about going from 60w total (from the T8's) up to a combined 138w! I had already upgraded the standard reflectors some years ago (Arcadia I think), so decided to leave these in place and fix the T5 bulbs to them. I removed the standard bulbs and end caps and then drilled 2 small holes (2mm drill bit) at the bottom of the reflector on each side making sure I went into the hood. I actually used the original reflector clips as the marking, but to be honest it doesn't really matter where you drill the holes as long as you support the bulb evenly.

I know pics would be good at this point, but not got any to hand yet.

I then screwed the mounts on using some very small but wide screws (about 4mm width) so as the hole into the hood was as water tight as I could get it. With the mounts fitted I just clipped on the clips and fitted the bulbs. I did take my time in making sure the bulbs and cables were all neat and in the right position for when the hood is placed back on the tank. This is not easy as there's so many cables! I found that the cables to the end caps could be tucked under (or over depending on which way your viewing the hood) the T8 fixings, so that keeps the cables out the way. The cables that run from the front of the hood can be tucked down inside the side V shape on the side of the hood. Doing this means they don’t drop toward the water. They also don’t foul up how the hood fits onto the tank. The hood will still fit snugly. At this point I gleaned a bit of advice from another forum which really helped with the fitting…

“Get everything in place within the hood then put the ballast unit on top of the hood. Lift the hood up and put in place on the tank. A second person can be useful here. Feed the ballast and the cables down the back of the tank and then tidy up as you see fit”.

I did this and it worked fine. I then mounted the ballast inside my cabinet (vertically) with a couple of screws and used cable ties to tidy up the cables the best I could. It still looks a bit of mess, but a tidy mess!

After all that I powered it on and thought… yes that’s better. So much more light intensity, plants were really green, and my Neon and Cardinal Tetra’s were positively gleaming.

I’ll try and get some pics up when I do my next water change.

All in all (so far) a good upgrade that took me a couple of hours.


J.


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## Jafooli

Hey Jason

Thanks for posting.

I'm glad to hear your upgrade went well for you, as I know its a tricky job whichever route you take unless you know your DIY.

I am still running my T5 bulbs with my T8 bulbs coming on 2 hours a day for a little burst of extra light. I see you removed the T8 bulbs so at least maintenance should be a bit easier for you.
I don't dare remove my lighting hood now as like you say you really do need a second person and I've got all four bulbs still so I just have to remove both lid flaps and push the unit to the back and do my water changes etc with just about enough room for my arm to get in.

I hope you can start enjoying more plant growth now as it does make a massive improvement unfortunately for me my fish just do not cope with CO2 that well, and liquid carbon low dose was about my only benefit but now I just feed the plants now and then.

I am also suffering with a massive outbreak of BBA, most likely as I've now stopped all CO2, liquid carbon didn't effect the BBA at all so in the end just gave up. I have read there are some ramshorn snails which eat BBA so I might get some snails and see how that goes. I just wish I could of had a tank like many members have on here but unfortunately I didn't quite get there due to limiting factors but I wish you the best of luck.

You also said you had your Roma for 8 years thats amazing lol, when I first got into the hobby 3 or maybe 4 years ago now my first tank was a Roma 90 then I upgraded to a Roma 200. In all that time I've not seen many new tanks being sold at my LFS or online, I know there is a new Fluval tank out this year but I think its a marine tank and quite expensive. Its a shame in this hobby there are not more companies out there making a wider selection of designer tanks especially new fresh water tanks with closed T5 lighting hoods. I have mine next to my tv so a custom tank with a hanging or clipped on light fixture will be to distracting but hopefully in the future when I have my own place I will just buy a glass tank like most on here and then get a lovely luminaire that does it all + the extra space. 

Best of luck anyway.


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## Jason Wright

Thanks Jafooli

I've had my fair share of ups and downs over the years, so don't be put off... keep going. I managed to grow plants reasonably well some years ago with the T8's and feeding every now-and-again, but never to the standard I wanted. At least I've now got a good start (Co2, ferts, lights) into getting the plant growth I want. Still a long way to go, and pretty sure my next issue will be even flow of Co2 throughout the tank!

Maintenance with the new lights might be tricky. I'll have to do what you're doing until I can work out an easy way to get the hood off without pulling cables everywhere. It may in the future mean I'll open the hood up and fit the lights correctly within it.

8 years is a long time. I'll post some pics up in the Newbies section when I get 5 mins of the tank over the years. Even more amazingly is the fact I still have a Black Widow Tetra that has been in the tank since December 2007! Now that's longevity.

I thought the choice of tanks is pretty good at the moment. My local Garden Center and Maidenhead always seem to have plenty to choose from. However... a custom built tank with a suspended hood in a huge room would be awesome. Unfortunately I don't have a huge a room and a wife who would like to see a sofa where the tank is 

J.


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