# Finally taking he plunge on monster tank - Help with kit list please!



## KirstyF (25 Jul 2021)

Hi All

New member on the forum but been floating around in the background for a long while. Some amazing tanks and a world of experience here!

I've been dreaming, planning....re-planning a tank for about 18mths now and am just about ready to press the button.
It's a heck of a step up from my 160l low tech so would really appreciate some input on my planned kit list. Will get around to the other million questions later. lol!

Tank: 84" x 24" x 24" around 175 gallons (UK) - Cabinet style, fully lidded (I have mad cats so an open tank is not an option.)
Filtration: For a number of reasons I'm looking at canister rather than sump so 2 x OASE Biomaster Thermo. I like the pre-filter and built in heater features.
Flow/distribution: I don't think the 'traditional' oversize pump and spray bar solution is going to cut it, so thinking Maxspect Gyre to increase flow/CO2 distribution - Can't really think of another way to get good enough flow and distribution without using a whole batch of canisters or cluttering the tank with powerheads (the 2 Biomasters would only give me about 4.5x turnover rate at max.) Not sure whether to go for 1 or 2, 330's or 350's, as they only have a 10/13 inch spread. Also, seen this tested on a 6ft tank but not 7ft. Can anyone confirm whether I'm likely to achieve good distribution across the length of a 7ft tank by using these or suggestions for an alternative solution are welcome. 
Co2: Aquamedic 1000 reactor with Co2 Art Pro-Se regulator kit. It states that 250gph is required for this reactor, will it handle the 450gph output of the OASE??
Lights: Finnex 24/7 CRV - 1 x 48" plus 1 x 36" or 2 x Current USA Satellite Pro 36-48".  Enough light?

I'm looking to start out slow with low/medium planting (lots of it) at least until I can get the tank dialled in and get my head around dealing with a high tech of this size. 

All suggestions and input very welcome and very much appreciated.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Jul 2021)

Welcome


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## KirstyF (26 Jul 2021)

Thanks Tim 😊


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## ceg4048 (27 Jul 2021)

KirstyF said:


> Flow/distribution: I don't think the 'traditional' oversize pump and spray bar solution is going to cut it


Where is this rule written? There is no need to oversize anything, just use a couple of adequately rated filters.
Here is a myth-busting 150 gallon tank powered by two Eheim 2180 Thermofilters. You can just make them out on the lower edges of the photo. Note the cheesy Eheim spraybars, two each joined on either side along the back wall:





It's should not be too problematic to move that extra amount of water the filters are a little stronger and if you do not stuff the trays with flow sucking ceramic media. Fluval has a real he-man type filter (G6) but even their older generation FX5 can accommodate the flow due to their 25mm hose. It will just take a little bit more thought and engineering to fabricate the spraybars of that size to join to the tubing. In-line CO2 diffusing will also be problematic because of the tubing size so probably has to also be DIY.

You are already on the path to sliding into the ditch by asking whether you'll have enough light. 
Generally, CO2 grows plants while lights grow algae.

Cheers,


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## Oldguy (27 Jul 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> Generally, CO2 grows plants while lights grow algae.





KirstyF said:


> Enough light?



I think the problem may come from the labels on the plants. They tend to be along the lines of: 'requires bright light, some CO2 an advantage'. The emphasise should be the other way round especially as most of our plants are not obligate aquatics. It took a little while for the penny to drop with my self.  In the olden days high tech lighting was 11/2" dia florescent tubes that never got changed due to cost. These days LED 'arc lights' are affordable.


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## ForestDave (27 Jul 2021)

Oldguy said:


> I think the problem may come from the labels on the plants. They tend to be along the lines of: 'requires bright light, some CO2 an advantage'. The emphasise should be the other way round especially as most of our plants are not obligate aquatics. It took a little while for the penny to drop with my self.  In the olden days high tech lighting was 11/2" dia florescent tubes that never got changed due to cost. These days LED 'arc lights' are affordable.


As it’s going to have a cover over it  do you know of any good /reasonably priced LED lights that would work well in that situation? I recently got a second hand Aquael Leddy retrofit tube. It’s a nice light and the colour is much nicer than my T5s, but It would be good to have one with adjustable power settings. 
Just wondering for future reference?! 😁


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## Oldguy (27 Jul 2021)

ForestDave said:


> /reasonably priced LED light


I just bought some standard LED tank lights and supplemented them with white LED mini spots lights & mini 'growlux' spot lights all from ebay. Not dimmerable but controlled by simple electomechanical time switches. Just had to make mounts for them from oddments of aluminum sheet with holes cut in them. Edison screw fitments can be height adjusted by using the lock collars that come with them that are designed to hold lamp shades.

Hope that this is of some use to you. ( I am not big on 'brand names')


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## Gorillastomp (27 Jul 2021)

KirstyF said:


> Co2: Aquamedic 1000 reactor with Co2 Art Pro-Se regulator kit. It states that 250gph is required for this reactor, will it handle the 450gph output of the OASE??



Look out for Cerges reactors, its DIY and needed at this size of a tank imo if you want decent ph drop in adequate time. I have similar tank size (84x26x26) and using a Cerges reactor Type the 20" version coupled with a 2500 GPH rated pump. I drop my 1ph point in around 1h15-30. This is with a wet/dry sump too.


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## Zeus. (27 Jul 2021)

Hi and welcome ,



KirstyF said:


> Maxspect Gyre to increase flow/CO2 distribution - Can't really think of another way to get good enough flow and distribution without using a whole batch of canisters or cluttering the tank with powerheads (the 2 Biomasters would only give me about 4.5x turnover rate at max.) Not sure whether to go for 1 or 2, 330's or 350's,



I have two 330 in my 500l tank which I use to have an FX6 and a 3000LPH pumps as well. The FX6 and independent line worked well, however it was a PITA to do the plumbing with 25mm pipes which cost also, the pipes increased maintenance and took 4 -6hrs to clean. Where as the Gyres are dead easy to clean and give more than enough turnover, the controller for the gyres is great also, so have only one gyre running at night and snails, RCS and Amanos clean them nicely. So gyres may seem expensive, but dead easy to fit you have 24 schedules for gyre speeds also, you should then only need one filter IMO. 



As for heaters, if your house has central heating one 500w should be plenty. 

I would also think twice about the height of your base unless your 7ft as the bases are normally quite high, I had a bespoke one made lower tan normal height so FX6 and 6.5Kg CO2 cylinder just fitted in. Nice if your arm can still reach bottom of centre of tank when on its base.

Lidded tanks do make maintenance harder as you cant just slip your arm in without removing lid/glass covers. Not so much an issue with low tech, however high tech is another story. I have an open top lid which to be honest is rarely on it.
You will use quite a bit of CO2 CO2 used Database so best plan to carry a spare cylinder or two.


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## ForestDave (27 Jul 2021)

Oldguy said:


> I just bought some standard LED tank lights and supplemented them with white LED mini spots lights & mini 'growlux' spot lights all from ebay. Not dimmerable but controlled by simple electomechanical time switches. Just had to make mounts for them from oddments of aluminum sheet with holes cut in them. Edison screw fitments can be height adjusted by using the lock collars that come with them that are designed to hold lamp shades.
> 
> Hope that this is of some use to you. ( I am not big on 'brand names')


Cheers. I always like a diy solution!


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> should not be too problematic to move that extra amount of water the filters are a little stronger and if you do not stuff the trays with flow sucking ceramic media. Fluval has a real he-man type filter (G6) but even their older generation FX5 can accommodate the flow due to their 25mm hose. It will just take a little bit more thought and engineering to fabricate the spraybars of that size to join to the tubing. In-line CO2 diffusing will also be problematic because of the tubing size so probably has to also be DIY.


Hi There and thanks for responding. 
I’ve gone around in circles a little in regard to this as plan A was a pair of FX6’s with spraybars, creating front to back rotation and even co2 distribution. 👍
Problem 1 was not being able to find in line heaters that would accommodate their hose size and thinking that reducing it would probably not be good for either the pump or the heater. Would also restrict flow.
Problem 2 was shop bought co2 reactors also have issues with that hose size and I’d need to consider how to get the co2 in to both outlets. Not insurmountable by any means; some research (lots of research) some fancy plumbing, maybe some DIY and a few swear words and hey presto! 
Plan B was the Biomaster Thermo’s as they solve the heater issue and hose size is compatible with most reactors (your suggested Eheims would do the same and pack a little more punch 👍) but that brought me back to...still not enough flow 😩
My main concern was that, no matter which way you play it, the output would be a long way from the 10x that so many hobbyist advise, and poor flow/co2 distribution can be the pre-cursor to so many issues.
So.....having said all that, looking at that tank, maybe the 10x is less important than I thought. 🤔


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> are already on the path to sliding into the ditch by asking whether you'll have enough light.
> Generally, CO2 grows plants while lights grow algae.


Perhaps I should re-phrase as suitable light? I think I’m ok with those choices. I’ve only found PAR values at 12” depth rather than 24” but by comparison to similar LED products they seem to have a pretty good range. More importantly perhaps they are very controllable, dimmable, etc as with a lidded tank, moving lights up and down is not an option. I’m not needing a tank that grows at a mile a minute and plan to start with lower/mid light planting, and a lot of patience. I’ve got a lot to learn!!! But would like to make sure the lights I get now will see me through that learning curve. 😊


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## Zeus. (27 Jul 2021)

Spraybar along back of tank like @ceg4048 did with his is IMO/IME the best way to move the water, don't go for big holes or too many as gigger holes or/and too many will get better output from filters yes, but the water will be coming out at low speed/velocity and therefor have less energy so will move less water, the 'acid test' with a spray bar along the back is when doing a WC the water coming out should hit the front glass when tank is at about 50%. That will create enough flow to push the CO2 right down to the substrate level. Easier to start with smaller/fewer holes than too many or too big, I did many small holes on mine which worked well IMO



KirstyF said:


> very controllable, dimmable



I must IMO/IME esp with hooded lights you cant raise, easier than blocking out or doing light filter


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

Gorillastomp said:


> Look out for Cerges reactors, its DIY and needed at this size of a tank imo if you want decent ph drop in adequate time. I have similar tank size (84x26x26) and using a Cerges reactor Type the 20" version coupled with a 2500 GPH rated pump. I drop my 1ph point in around 1h15-30. This is with a wet/dry sump too.



Hi There. Thanks for the heads up. I’ve read a bit on the Cerges reactor and Tom Barr’s DIY versions. How do you disperse into your tank? Placement, plumbing etc?


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

Zeus. said:


> I have two 330 in my 500l tank which


Hi Ya Zeus.
Spent most of the late evening yesterday reading ur journal...wow, what a journey!!
I probably need to re-read to pick up all the details but it looks like you had your two 330’s side mounted. Were you still distributing co2 through spraybars or some other method. No doubt the answer is in their somewhere but it was 1am so I might not have been getting everything 😂


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

Zeus. said:


> would also think twice about the height of your base unless your 7ft as the bases are normally quite high, I had a bespoke one made lower tan normal height


I’m talking to a local company in Kidderminster and they will bespoke everything so I can choose base height, tank height etc. Although tbh I’m 4ft 11” so unless it’s on the floor, my maintenance is being done from steps! 😂 They will also make the lid larger than standard with only a small area at the back for hinge fitting which means I can get most of it up out of my way (just lean it back against the wall) I know it’s going to be super fiddly but unfortunately I have the worst behaved cats in the world...and one of them loves water, (walks around in the shower with me) 😳 Open top would be a disaster me thinks.

I’ve had a 65cm tall tank on small cabinet and just about managed without getting my ears wet!


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## RPackman (27 Jul 2021)

Until I got my new open top tank I never dunked my upper body in the water, but it is too tall and deep for me to reach now and I manage to get my t shirt wet most times I do any maintenance at the back or the bottom of the tank


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## Zeus. (27 Jul 2021)

KirstyF said:


> looks like you had your two 330’s side mounted


correct both at one end.


KirstyF said:


> Were you still distributing co2 through spraybars or some other method


Used the output from the FX6 to drive twin DIY reactors as in post #9 pic above, just used the standard FX6 output them without the duckbills fitted, all the flow was created by the Gyres, when the gyres was on full I had a output to tank ratio of x36, needless to say didn't have them on full often - only when 'turkey' blasting the carpet

@Filip Krupa has gyres on his 2000l high tech beast also, he uses a snorkel for maintenance/planting or just gets in tank 😅. Another big tank journal worth a read


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## KirstyF (27 Jul 2021)

Looks like DIY reactors is my next research project! Expect further noob questions once I’ve done a bit of reading. Apologies in advance. 🤭
The tank is a 12 week build so I’ll have driven you all nuts by then. 
And, note to self....add a pair of flippers to the kit list! 😂😂
Will take a look at that journal. Thanks


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## Papillo (3 Aug 2021)

Kirsty I see from your posts that you are based near Kidderminster. Quick off topic question: where do you get your CO2 refills?


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## KirstyF (25 Jul 2021)

Hi All

New member on the forum but been floating around in the background for a long while. Some amazing tanks and a world of experience here!

I've been dreaming, planning....re-planning a tank for about 18mths now and am just about ready to press the button.
It's a heck of a step up from my 160l low tech so would really appreciate some input on my planned kit list. Will get around to the other million questions later. lol!

Tank: 84" x 24" x 24" around 175 gallons (UK) - Cabinet style, fully lidded (I have mad cats so an open tank is not an option.)
Filtration: For a number of reasons I'm looking at canister rather than sump so 2 x OASE Biomaster Thermo. I like the pre-filter and built in heater features.
Flow/distribution: I don't think the 'traditional' oversize pump and spray bar solution is going to cut it, so thinking Maxspect Gyre to increase flow/CO2 distribution - Can't really think of another way to get good enough flow and distribution without using a whole batch of canisters or cluttering the tank with powerheads (the 2 Biomasters would only give me about 4.5x turnover rate at max.) Not sure whether to go for 1 or 2, 330's or 350's, as they only have a 10/13 inch spread. Also, seen this tested on a 6ft tank but not 7ft. Can anyone confirm whether I'm likely to achieve good distribution across the length of a 7ft tank by using these or suggestions for an alternative solution are welcome. 
Co2: Aquamedic 1000 reactor with Co2 Art Pro-Se regulator kit. It states that 250gph is required for this reactor, will it handle the 450gph output of the OASE??
Lights: Finnex 24/7 CRV - 1 x 48" plus 1 x 36" or 2 x Current USA Satellite Pro 36-48".  Enough light?

I'm looking to start out slow with low/medium planting (lots of it) at least until I can get the tank dialled in and get my head around dealing with a high tech of this size. 

All suggestions and input very welcome and very much appreciated.


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## KirstyF (3 Aug 2021)

I’ve not lived in the area long and my new tank isn’t built yet so still in the planning stage. Not identified a local supplier so far I’m afraid. I’ll be shopping around over the next few weeks. I’ll let you know if I find a good one. Keep me posted if you get there first.


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## Papillo (4 Aug 2021)

Thanks. Used to get mine from Shirley Aquatics but since the store relocated, and now I longer work in Birmingham, I have switched to liquid CO2 only.


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## tiger15 (4 Aug 2021)

KirstyF said:


> Hi All
> 
> New member on the forum but been floating around in the background for a long while. Some amazing tanks and a world of experience here!
> 
> ...


I have a 75g and 125g planted cichlid tanks in my living area.  I always have big tanks as I keep cichlid that are territorial and generate high bio load.  PLant keeping doesn't need to start with big tank as it is expensive to fill up with plant mass to suppress algae.   But you already have experience with a low tech tank, so you can transfer some plants over.  So the size of your tank isn't an issue except for the 24 inch depth.  Unless you have the reach of a basketball player, manipulating plants in 24 inch  deep and wide tank can be challenging.  Also, unlike natural light that is perfectly parallel, artificial light decreases rapidly in depth according to the inverse square law, so light penetration to the substrate level is greatly decreased.  You need very intense light to sustain healthy plants at the substrate, but than your upper level light could be too intense to promote algae.  Raising a false bottom on driftwood or rock for planting would help.

For monster tank, a sump system is the norm as you only need to change one big filter at a time.  Most aquascapers use canister filters and will tell you to use multiple canisters to achieve adequate water flow and filtration for your monster tank.  I beg the difference as canisters are PIA to clean, and a sump system is noisy, and I have safety concern for both systems as they have external plumbing vulnerable to leak and drain the tank.  I run three HOBs in my 6 ft 125g and two HOBs in my 4 ft 75g and feel safe in my living room as HOBs have no external plumbing to leak.   For good water circulation, it's easily achieved by attaching a circulation pump at one end to provide cross circulation.


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## KirstyF (5 Aug 2021)

Papillo said:


> Kirsty I see from your posts that you are based near Kidderminster. Quick off topic question: where do you get your CO2 refills?


JESP Gases in Brierly Hill do Co2 gas it seems. Not sure what their prices are like as yet but might be worth a call if ur liquid co2 doesn’t work out so well. 😊


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## KirstyF (6 Aug 2021)

tiger15 said:


> I have a 75g and 125g planted cichlid tanks in my living area.  I always have big tanks as I keep cichlid that are territorial and generate high bio load.  PLant keeping doesn't need to start with big tank as it is expensive to fill up with plant mass to suppress algae.   But you already have experience with a low tech tank, so you can transfer some plants over.  So the size of your tank isn't an issue except for the 24 inch depth.  Unless you have the reach of a basketball player, manipulating plants in 24 inch  deep and wide tank can be challenging.  Also, unlike natural light that is perfectly parallel, artificial light decreases rapidly in depth according to the inverse square law, so light penetration to the substrate level is greatly decreased.  You need very intense light to sustain healthy plants at the substrate, but than your upper level light could be too intense to promote algae.  Raising a false bottom on driftwood or rock for planting would help.
> 
> For monster tank, a sump system is the norm as you only need to change one big filter at a time.  Most aquascapers use canister filters and will tell you to use multiple canisters to achieve adequate water flow and filtration for your monster tank.  I beg the difference as canisters are PIA to clean, and a sump system is noisy, and I have safety concern for both systems as they have external plumbing vulnerable to leak and drain the tank.  I run three HOBs in my 6 ft 125g and two HOBs in my 4 ft 75g and feel safe in my living room as HOBs have no external plumbing to leak.   For good water circulation, it's easily achieved by attaching a circulation pump at one end to provide cross circulation.


Hi Tiger
You’ve got some beautiful fish in there, Impressive, and thank you for your comments. 
Yeah the tank height is a bit of a ‘mare and I’ll be offsetting that with a fair amount of height in the scape which, along with some careful plant selection, should help some with the challenge of maintenance and PAR variations. (In a pinch, I’ve got a snorkel to go with my flippers) Considered dropping to 22” but I’ll lose a couple of inches visually due to cabinet overhangs and it’s already a panoramic feel with that 84” length so didn’t want to push that too far!
See the benefit of HOB’s but I need that external plumbing to run a co2 reactor and a sump isn’t an option for me anyhow, so I think it’ll be a single canister plus gyres for flow and see how that configuration works out.


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## tiger15 (6 Aug 2021)

KirstyF said:


> Hi Tiger
> 
> See the benefit of HOB’s but I need that external plumbing to run a co2 reactor and a sump isn’t an option for me anyhow, so I think it’ll be a single canister plus gyres for flow and see how that configuration works out.


I use Tunze diffuser that runs on powerhead to avoid external reactor.






						Produktdetails - Tunze
					

Hi-Tech für Aquaristik




					www.tunze.com


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## Ajm200 (2 Feb 2022)

I had a 60x24x24 500+ litre tank with a wooden lid/hood.  One thing to consider is how you get the lid off for maintenance.  Ours had a narrow flap at the front that was fine for feeding fish and cleaning the front glass.  

Cleaning the back glass, filter pipes or working with plants at the back of the tank meant taking the lid off and finding somewhere to put it.  It was very heavy.

We also fitted locking piano hinges to the flap as it came down on my head while i was cleaning the glass and gave me a concussion.


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## KirstyF (2 Feb 2022)

Hi @Ajm200 

 This is a bit of an old thread now, but in fairness I have cheated and kept the lid off throughout my start up period. Only put it on 10 days ago. 😂 (cats have only had supervised  access to the room) 

The front flap is 13” deep and folds flat so it’s not too bad and I’ve managed to top and replant some rear stems so I think, with a bit of wriggling, I’ll manage most things with the lid on. (You’re right, it is insanely heavy) 

Not drowned so far so consider that a win, although, even with the lid off, maintenance day is somewhat synonymous with dripping hair! 😂


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## Ajm200 (3 Feb 2022)

KirstyF said:


> Hi @Ajm200
> 
> This is a bit of an old thread now, but in fairness I have cheated and kept the lid off throughout my start up period. Only put it on 10 days ago. 😂 (cats have only had supervised  access to the room)
> 
> ...


For some reason it came up as new for me.  Glad you have a workaround.


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