# Longest spray bar?



## Wendal_spanswick (16 Jul 2015)

Hi all, I'm getting things together for my new tank which will be set up in a couple of weeks when I move. It's 120x45x45 and I wanted to use a spray bar along the back. Can I use a spray bar 120cm long? I'm going to be using an Eheim 2075 which comes with the install kits for inflow and outflow. I know I could put the spray bar on one end but I'd really like it across the back as I think it'll give better flow. Has anyone else done this? Did you make your own spray bar? Any suggestion, advice or pictures would be great. Thanks.


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## tim (16 Jul 2015)

As long as the filter is powerful enough to create even flow along the full length spray bar no problem, you can buy extension kits for most spray bars or DIY one from acrylic or go for apfuk glass spray bars.


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## Christos Ioannou (17 Jul 2015)

Hi, done this with a clear acrylic tube 127cm long. Water spray will hit against front wall of tank.





Some useful maths _*(from Hoppy@TPT forum)*_
Assuming your return hose is 20mm wide in inner diameter (10mm radius)
*total surface area for return hose = 3.14 * 10^2 = 314mm^2*
*target TOTAL surface area for all drilled holes: 80% * 314mm^2 = 251mm^2* _(for example, if you drill 10 holes, each hole must have a surface area of 25,1mm^2)_

Try it on a cheap piece of PVC electrical pipe (_of same diameter_) then repeat on the more expensive piece of clear tube (if you go down this path)
Holes you don't need can be covered up with clear tape or electricians tape (visible above)

HTH


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## Wendal_spanswick (17 Jul 2015)

tim said:


> As long as the filter is powerful enough to create even flow along the full length spray bar no problem, you can buy extension kits for most spray bars or DIY one from acrylic or go for apfuk glass spray bars.





Christos Ioannou said:


> Hi, done this with a clear acrylic tube 127cm long. Water spray will hit against front wall of tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks chaps. I've struggled to find a piece of acrylic pipe long enough. I guess I could join two with a small piece of filter hose. The filter pipe work is 17/22mm pipe. I'll have to have a go at my maths!!
The other issue I have is the filter pipes have to come up the rear of the tank rather than the side so joining the pipe to the spray bar will be tricky as well. I'm spending a lot of time and effort on the new tank so I want to get things right before I set it all up.


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## zozo (17 Jul 2015)

Use an Y connector on filter outlet to the mid (under bottom tank  and then 2 hoses same lenght (symmetrically) to each end of the spray bar. That way the presure will be eqaul and meet in the middle of the spray bar. Any other way the first hole will spray more than the last, might even be the last one just dripping if you only connect on end and plug the other. No matter what presure you got, water is like thick gass it always goes the way of the least resistance with more power..  Or you need quite a lot of pressure..


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## Andy Thurston (17 Jul 2015)

Wendal_spanswick said:


> The other issue I have is the filter pipes have to come up the rear of the tank rather than the side so joining the pipe to the spray bar will be tricky as well


perhaps this could help
http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/...s/cascade-glass-rear-exit-pipe-17mm-left.html
they do a right hand one too


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## Christos Ioannou (17 Jul 2015)

zozo said:


> Any other way the first hole will spray more than the last, might even be the last one just dripping if you only connect on end and plug the other.



Dont think I agree with you, get equal spray from all holes. Pressure builds up in the spraybar. This pressure is equally distributed across the spraybar so you get equal pressure from all holes.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## ian_m (17 Jul 2015)

Mess around with a cheapy length of PVC tubing first, in fact multiple lengths and tries and hole sizes etc as it is quite cheap. 20/24mm PVC pipe is about £2/m on Ebay.

When happy with hole spacing and size make out of acrylic tube.


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## zozo (17 Jul 2015)

Christos Ioannou said:


> Dont think I agree with you, get equal spray from all holes. Pressure builds up in the spraybar. This pressure is equally distributed across the spraybar so you get equal pressure from all holes.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk



Don't have to.  maybe your water beam reaches the other side of the tank from each hole if you got enough power. That's ok.. but take the whole bunch outside in the garden and see how far the first hole sprays and how far the last hole sprays. Just looking and judging by what you see in the tank doesn't say much about the actual presure and how much you loose over the whole lenght at each hole.  it all depends on the used presure, lenght and size of the pipe and size and amount of holes.

I tried several constructions with irrigation in the garden and always ran into this problem, how longer the system and the more holes you have the more presure has to be devided and just loses power each next hole. Then you need presure eqeulizer valves..  The route of least resistance is just practical physics, can't help it.

If you want equal presure you need to create a loop. But when it is sufficient without a loop.. Why not, lets rock and roll and spray away.


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## Wisey (17 Jul 2015)

Christos Ioannou said:


> Dont think I agree with you, get equal spray from all holes. Pressure builds up in the spraybar. This pressure is equally distributed across the spraybar so you get equal pressure from all holes.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk



I use the Eheim Installation set with an extender to give me 4 spay bar sections. I get the exact opposite to what you say above, the first holes are the weakest flow and it gets more powerful the further up the spray bar towards the end. I wish I could get it more even!


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## Christos Ioannou (17 Jul 2015)

Hi again! 
@ 00:08 you can see what I am talking about (uniform output). Had to subsequently close (with tape) some holes to get higher output from remaining holes. So its 2 open, 1 closed repeating over the length of the tube.  

Apparently this is yet anoyher thing that works out differently for each one of us


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## Wisey (17 Jul 2015)

I might try blocking some of the holes in mine, see if I can get a more even and powerful flow. At the moment the first hole only sprays about half way across the tank and by the last hole, that one sprays about two thirds of the way over. They also dont spray straight, it's as if the flow of water down the spraybar makes them spray diagonally in the direction of the flow. Maybe if I block some holes and build up more pressure in the spraybar I can get them to spray straight and further. Something to experiment with over the weekend!


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## ian_m (17 Jul 2015)

This is my spray bar from a JBLe1501 in a Vision180 with a spray bar extension.


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## zozo (17 Jul 2015)

Big clown said:


> perhaps this could help
> http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/...s/cascade-glass-rear-exit-pipe-17mm-left.html
> they do a right hand one too




 
These are realy beautiful..  Nice stuff.. If i had to make it 120cm long i would buy 2 of these 1 left, 1 right. And a perfect loop...


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## Wendal_spanswick (17 Jul 2015)

Big clown said:


> perhaps this could help
> http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/...s/cascade-glass-rear-exit-pipe-17mm-left.html
> they do a right hand one too



Yes, I had seen these I seem to remember but I thought that to connect a diy acrylic spray bar I'd have to have a 16/12 spray bar so I could join the two together with a piece of 1" 16/22 tube. I wasn't sure if going down in size from pipe to spray bar would reduce overall filter flow. Or am I thinking too much into that.



Wisey said:


> I use the Eheim Installation set with an extender to give me 4 spay bar sections. I get the exact opposite to what you say above, the first holes are the weakest flow and it gets more powerful the further up the spray bar towards the end. I wish I could get it more even!



I could use these as I have one spare but I think I'd need 11 sections!



zozo said:


> Use an Y connector on filter outlet to the mid (under bottom tank  and then 2 hoses same lenght (symmetrically) to each end of the spray bar. That way the presure will be eqaul and meet in the middle of the spray bar. Any other way the first hole will spray more than the last, might even be the last one just dripping if you only connect on end and plug the other. No matter what presure you got, water is like thick gass it always goes the way of the least resistance with more power..  Or you need quite a lot of pressure..



I like that idea. One to think about.



ian_m said:


> Mess around with a cheapy length of PVC tubing first, in fact multiple lengths and tries and hole sizes etc as it is quite cheap. 20/24mm PVC pipe is about £2/m on Ebay.
> 
> When happy with hole spacing and size make out of acrylic tube.



When I was happy with the spacing etc couldn't I just keep it instead of changing to acrylic? What's the benefit of the acrylic pipe?


Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate all the help. I'm torn between a clear background on the tank for the first time or stick with a black one which I've had before and like. Pros and cons for both I think. Clear background and acrylic spray bar looks really clean and sharp but a black background would mean shop bought spray bars are ok to use.  I'm drumming up the courage to do a journal when I start it all so I'll let you know what I decide on.


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## ian_m (17 Jul 2015)

Wendal_spanswick said:


> What's the benefit of the acrylic pipe?


The PVC pipe "sags" after while and my PVC pipe got mouldy and wouldn't come clean. I was only experimenting making a spray bar for use on the output of my Juwel 600l/hr internal filter. It was a failure as the pump is not strong enough to filter and power a spray bar.


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## zozo (17 Jul 2015)

Now you got me thinking construcion wise..  Thosee garden irrigation systems use valves to somewhat equelize the presure over each outlet. They are constructed as a labyrinth. So at the first outlet the water gets resistant from the labyrinth it has to  take a longer way. So the airbubble in the tube will escape faster. Quite much faster then the water. Each next outlet the same labyrinth. This is ofcourse for larger systems several meters and relative lower presure. But for low presure short circuits it actualy does the same...

Wood be a fance look   lol to  use these to simulatie the process..


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## zozo (17 Jul 2015)

ian_m said:


> The PVC pipe "sags" after while and my PVC pipe got mouldy and wouldn't come clean. I was only experimenting making a spray bar for use on the output of my Juwel 600l/hr internal filter. It was a failure as the pump is not strong enough to filter and power a spray bar.



Stil if you take acrylic, wich has indeed al the benefits from ethical to practical.  It still is going to be a painstacking acurate hobby project. You need a very stady hand and straight eyes if you  want to do it with a hand dril on the kitchen table.  Respect for those who can and do succeed at first try, without one peeing left and the other right....


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## foxfish (18 Jul 2015)

Ha Ha, yes to drill accurate holes without  a pillar drill and drill vice is going to be extremely difficult! 
What will help is a piece of masking tape over the pipe with a straight line drawn on it, but the biggest help will be  by using a brad point drill bit. 
21mm overflow pipe available from B&Q is very cheap to experiment with, you need some electrical tape to seal the pipe ends & cover up dud holes!


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## zozo (18 Jul 2015)

Yup and at one point you have to take a round object out the drill vice and move it to the left or right. And a pipe hase nof flat surface, try to move a pipe of 120 cm long 10 times in the vice and drill maybe over a 20 holes in one perfect straight at right angles. Even with a drill pilar that's difficult not to turn the pipe, nearly undoable not to get the pipe back in the vice without turning it a fraction of an inch..  You need a flat fixed guidance..

If you have a drill pillar and a nice flat table large enough, forget the vice and find something like this.





Than you indeed, as in the picture, need a U profile  in the same leght of the pipe. Lay the pipe in the U profile and fix it with tape. Now the pipe has a round top where you want to drill en a flat sides and flat bottom you can slide around without on the table and pipe goes nowhere around his axis. Use such a marking device as shown in the picture or make yourself a simular alternative thats rigid and straight enough to accomplish the same result.Draw a straight line over the whole lengt of the pipe. And measure out and mark every hole.

This way you'll have a nice stady fixture for the pipe and can move the U profile around or the drill pillar on the table what ever suits best. 

And than stil if you want to be more acurate. Take a steel marking pen and a little pocket gass blow torch. heat the marking pen a bit and acurately melt a tiny dimple for each hole perfectly in the middle of the cross you've drawn. Then you'll have a better drill guidance.


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## Christos Ioannou (18 Jul 2015)

Hi. Used this and masking tape to mark a straight line on the acrylic tube. And a *not so sharp drill bit for metal* for the holes - advice given at acrylic shop. For the other end I used a clear table leg protector - I was lucky to find in the diy shop.


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## ian_m (18 Jul 2015)

I used a wine stopper in my Pvc tube before filling it with boiling water coupe of times before inserting it into a pvc U used for electrical cable. The hot water allows all the kinks to ooze out. Allow to cool in U and drill the plastic.  Nice row of  holes in PVC tube ....done.


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