# sand without nutrition



## Martin in Holland (21 Nov 2013)

Is it possible to use fine gravel/ sand without nutrition?...or better yet...Is it wise?
I would be using EI and CO2 and plants such as HC, Staug. repens, hairgrass....


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## Michael W (21 Nov 2013)

You can without any problems, plants can take nutrients from the column and substrate so you need not worry about a substrate without ferts. If you want you can always add root tabs in the substrate in the future.


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## Edvet (21 Nov 2013)

I've been using the same riversand in my tank for app 15 years now, never fertilized it (only did some clay/laterite mix below it at the start).


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## Yo-han (21 Nov 2013)

As long as you add fertilizer to the water column it doesn't matter fertilizer-wise. One note of warning; too deep a sand layer and it can get anaerobic sooner or later (see winogradsky column). Not something you want to experience, but lots of ways to prevent this from happening...


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## Martin in Holland (21 Nov 2013)

Yo-han said:


> As long as you add fertilizer to the water column it doesn't matter fertilizer-wise. One note of warning; too deep a sand layer and it can get anaerobic sooner or later (see winogradsky column). Not something you want to experience, but lots of ways to prevent this from happening...


do tell....how to prevent the sand from getting anaerobic....cause my substrate will go up to at least 25cm


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## mlgt (21 Nov 2013)

Stir the sand with a chopstick 
Plenty of those to use out where you are. Im heading to HK next year. Visiting hometown of Zhongshan. Might venture up to GZ.


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## foxfish (21 Nov 2013)

I don't think there is any need to be concerned  about the substrate having anaerobic areas as this is unlikely to cause any problems, if the gas build up to much it will just release a bubble or two into the water column that will burst of he surface & that will be it!


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## Martin in Holland (21 Nov 2013)

mlgt said:


> Stir the sand with a chopstick
> Plenty of those to use out where you are. Im heading to HK next year. Visiting hometown of Zhongshan. Might venture up to GZ.


 If you have time you can look me up, have some diner or a beer (or both) and talk about fish tanks to make our women go even more nuts... ...I live in Zhenshen


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## mlgt (21 Nov 2013)

Do you head over to HK at all? I require a visa so means it will be only 1 visit which I intend to visit family in zhongshan.


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## Ravenswing (21 Nov 2013)

I second what others hava said, but if only possible, choosing sand garvel size +1mm will help. It helps water circulation in the sand. I happen to know many, including my self, who has got anaerobic areas with too fine sand like 0,1-0,5mm. However, I also know many how have pretty fine sand without problems.Too thick layer of sand might lead to problems despite the size of the gravel. I personally like sand and never do vacuum or use sticks. I always have lot of cories taking care of bottom plus a plenty of flow taking care of bottom water/nutrition/oxygen/waste circulation. I have found gravel size 1-2mm best, never problems with it. As said, plants do fine just with water column fertlization, but adding root tabs is also fine with sand. Especially aponogetons, crypts, lilies and swords enjoy it!


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## Michael W (21 Nov 2013)

I don't think you need to worry too much about an anaerobic substrate, Clive had once commented that roots will release oxygen to help deal with such problems.

Refer to post 10:  Which one to select | UK Aquatic Plant Society
And post 11 in this: New Setup | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Martin in Holland (22 Nov 2013)

mlgt said:


> Do you head over to HK at all? I require a visa so means it will be only 1 visit which I intend to visit family in zhongshan.


 I need to go to HK every 60 days because of the new visa rules in China, so maybe we can hookup in HK go to the fish street in Mongkok.....


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## Martin in Holland (22 Nov 2013)

Ravenswing....I am thinking of using 1mm gravel or bigger (just small enough for HC to take root) as I am going to carpet the whole substrate cories would be out of the question because they  will uproot my plants which are not deep rooting.

Michael W....My plants aren't rooting deep enough to release oxygen at the lowest part (Hemianthus c./ Staurogyne r./Eleocharis mini)...probably need to poke the sand sometimes


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## Martin in Holland (22 Nov 2013)

Just an idea I wanted to run by you'll.
What if I would put some gravel first and top it of with a 2 or 3cm thick ADA like substrate....gravel and substrate would have the same size


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## mlgt (23 Nov 2013)

Martin in China said:


> I need to go to HK every 60 days because of the new visa rules in China, so maybe we can hookup in HK go to the fish street in Mongkok.....


 

Give you a shout next year. Aiming to go with family in late April.


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## Martin in Holland (23 Nov 2013)

mlgt said:


> Give you a shout next year. Aiming to go with family in late April.


 that's after spring festival...even better...less crowded


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## Martin in Holland (23 Nov 2013)

Let me try this question again....
What if I would put some gravel first and top it of with a 2 or 3cm thick amazon (ADA or any other brand) like substrate?....gravel and substrate would have the same grain size


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## tim (23 Nov 2013)

Why so you want to cap the gravel Martin ? Is it to save on the amount of amozonia ?


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## Martin in Holland (23 Nov 2013)

tim said:


> Why so you want to cap the gravel Martin ? Is it to save on the amount of amozonia ?


 Yes and No..... I don't need Amazonia for the plants I am going to use, but I was hoping they would root better in it than in gravel of the same size. Amazonia maybe also give it a better start...and obviously I hate to waste money on something I don't need...so, yes also save a lot of this expensive Amazonia substrate where no root is ever reaching it


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## tim (23 Nov 2013)

Ah ok makes sense, I've seen people use filter mesh bags full of pumice or lava to bulk out substrate, I've capped florabase with Senegal sand in my 3ft tank without any issues other than when I uproot plants, I just use a small hose to syphon the florabase out after uprooting, so I would say its possible to do if you don't plan on moving stuff around much. Saying that though I have hc doing ok in the front of the tank in just sand it's around 1-3mm I'm just dosing the water column plenty.


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## Martin in Holland (23 Nov 2013)

Thx Tim for the info


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