# Wild P. scalare 'Rio Nanay'



## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted any photos of fish so I'm pleased to show off my latest additions.

Yesterday I bought 7 of these from my LFS, The Waterzoo, Peterborough.

I told my wife I would be getting a shoal of cheap tetras for my 240 litre Amazon biotope and saw these instead...

The shop kept them in almost pure RO and really warm so I've replicated the conditions.  

I'm not sure if their natural biotope is tannin-stained so I'm awaiting a reply from Heiko Bleher, unless anyone else knows...?

So far they're feeding well on a mix of frozen foods and Tetra Prima, but they are very skittish when I approach the tank.  I may invest in some dither fish, but am waiting for my wife to calm down first (they weren't cheap)!

Anyway, I hope you like them.


angels2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


angels1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## BigTom (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Lovely fish George, can we get a FTS/video of them in situ when they've settled in a bit?


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*



			
				BigTom said:
			
		

> Lovely fish George, can we get a FTS/video of them in situ when they've settled in a bit?


Thanks, Tom.

Will do.


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## Tom (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Very nice  It's rare to get good quality Angels these days, let alone wild. I've noticed the odd couple of nice angels in our shipments recently, in amongst the koi, gold and black varieties with stumpy fins. 

Tom


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## a1Matt (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

pretty much all the rivers in Peru look like mud. Do you know which 'Rio' they were caught from?


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> pretty much all the rivers in Peru look like mud. Do you know which 'Rio' they were caught from?


No idea mate.   Thanks for the info.


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## mrjackdempsey (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Congratulations on some beautiful fish there, real head turners. Hard to tell from the photo but could they be Pterophyllum scarare var. 'Santa Isabel' or P.scalare 'var. peruensis altum'. Here is a video from a friend of what he thought were Altums 

Whatever they are beautiful looking fish


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks, Mr JD!

I'm going to email Heiko - hopefully he can ID them (I have a 'proper' photo) and give me info on their natural habitat.


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## Gary Nelson (10 Aug 2011)

*Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

They are stunning George, I hope they settle in well, looking forward to seeing some more pics or video.


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## mrjackdempsey (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

You're welcome George, but I'm just guessing    Still if I did help the great George Farmer of PFK fame it certainly be a feather in the cap   Found this site since the last post that might help
http://www.finarama.com/tba/identification.htm
Could I be a pain and ask (via PM) how much if it's not too nosey    I am a nosey so and so 
Dave


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks, guys.

I paid £99 for the 7 fish, which I believe is a good price.


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## mrjackdempsey (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks for the info and I apologise for being so nosey   and hopefully Mr Bleher will be able to help with the I.D of these pretty Angels as they do look special. He does seem a fountain of knowledge and indeed I used his knowledge to identify some wild caught acaras that were given to me by a owner of a pet shop. Must also commend you on your enthusiasm here as it is really nice to see someone in the 'industry' such as yourself get excited about their fish and even more so admit that they don't know everything so my hat's off to you


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*



			
				mrjackdempsey said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info and I apologise for being so nosey   and hopefully Mr Bleher will be able to help with the I.D of these pretty Angels as they do look special. He does seem a fountain of knowledge and indeed I used his knowledge to identify some wild caught acaras that were given to me by a owner of a pet shop. Must also commend you on your enthusiasm here as it is really nice to see someone in the 'industry' such as yourself get excited about their fish and even more so admit that they don't know everything so my hat's off to you


Thank you, kind sir.


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## mrjackdempsey (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> mrjackdempsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're very welcome, any chance I could 'borrow' these wee lads   Only joking, though am really looking forward to seeing the master piece of aquascaping these will inspire from you.Please be kind enough to let us know what Heiko thinks they are as I'm dying to know


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

You never know mate, they might spawn, then who knows...  I have a spare set-up just in case...

Anyway, the manager of the shop has just contacted me to say they're P. scalare 'Rio Nanay'.  

I'm off to so some intense research!  Feel free to let me know what you know about them too..


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Nice link - 

http://www.discusnews.com/article/cat-04/peruvian.shtml


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## mrjackdempsey (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

just spent the last half an hour googling different wild P. scalare and I'm afraid I'm none the wiser ,these 'Peruvian Altums' can reach 12" from tip to tip so seriously big fish, enjoying this as it's a wee bit like a detective novel but I'm afraid Agata Christie got me every time   Think I should keep quiet as I show myself up as the fool I am, really interested in what Heiko thinks they are as there are different variants named after rivers and towns  where they are caught. Any chance of a video soon, George and again thank for something of a mystery story, not a whodunit but who is it


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## George Farmer (10 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Google "scalare rio nanay", "rio nanay biotope"...


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## mrjackdempsey (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Must go to to the 'leaba' ( irish for bed) but see if this is similar to your treasures
http://www.finarama.com/tba/al25.htm
and the discussions here
http://www.angelfishkisses.com/forum/ar ... -2061.html
Will have another google tomorrow (great tool to learn )


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## a1Matt (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Nice link -
> 
> http://www.discusnews.com/article/cat-04/peruvian.shtml


 
i have not been to rio nanay, but have been to other rio's nearby, including the rio negra referenced in that article.  they are all tributaries leading into rio amazonas, and they are not really tannin stained, they just look like mud for the most part. There is the odd exception, rivulets here and there are heavily tannin stained, yet crystal clear at the same time. Very little fish in these sections though (from my limited time spent there).

The nearest city is iquitos, an airport was built there about 10 years ago so it is very accessible. Before that the only way in was by slow boat hops, which takes about 3 weeks. It is a dangerous but beautiful part of the world.

My post is a little ot, but i figure a little insight into the area will be welcomed


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## George Farmer (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks for the info, Matt.

There's lots of conflicting reports about whether it's tannin-stained or not.

Here's an interview indicating it is...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthrea ... 6faa8e06b6



> _Is it a blackwater river? _
> 
> Yes, the water in the Nanay River has a tea or coffee color and, sometimes, completely black in color. It is ironic that we are always worried about having clear water in our tanks when discus, in fact, come from water with little or no visibility


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## bogman (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

nice angels, i have often seen pictures of fish like these called peruvian altum or peruvian scalare, i think one of their features are the black spotting on their sides, as posted by someone else 'Finarama' is THE web site for advice on angels, plenty of very experienced fanatics there!


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## George Farmer (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks for the info.

The fish have settled in great.  

I've added 30 _Petitella georgeiae_ (false rummynose tetra) to act as dither fish.  They've also settled in great, shoaling up and down the tank.

All fish are eating dry foods well - Tetra Prima and Tetra ProCrisp Colour.  Also feeding frozen brineshrimp (Omega-3) and bloodworm.

Really, really chuffed with the whole experience so far.  It's refreshing to focus on the fish and not the plants for a change.


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## ghostsword (11 Aug 2011)

*Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

It seem that you are having a great time! 

Take a video of the tank with the fish, it is always a great pleasure to see fish like that!


---
- .


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## Gill (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Stunning looking Angels, Would love to keep some again


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## mrjackdempsey (11 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Glad they are settling in their new home and making friends already    must be time for a video soon! Whatever their ID, think they will make a great centre piece and a interesting talking point.Mind is going soft and don't know if this has been posted already and if yes I do apologise but been on so many different sites the mind is twisted
http://www.finarama.com/tba/chronicles/ ... calare.htm
Whatever they turn out to be at least they are not wallflowers and would grace any tank.Enjoy them George and I must start saving up for a trip to the UK if they do spawn


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## George Farmer (12 Aug 2011)

*Re: Wild P. scalare 'Peruvian'*

Thanks mate.

I did a photo shoot on the tank today, as the fish have settled properly and I need to get the biotope feature complete for PFK before I go back to RAF work next week.

This shot shows off the fish quite nicely.

Note the different in colour rendition after I've added tannins...


angel resized by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## Fred Dulley (12 Aug 2011)

Lovely colours. Could the colour improvement also be due to the fact that they are more settled in now? Or did you notice a change considerably when the water was more tanned?


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## George Farmer (12 Aug 2011)

Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Lovely colours. Could the colour improvement also be due to the fact that they are more settled in now? Or did you notice a change considerably when the water was more tanned?


Probably a bit of both, Fred.  Thanks.


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## mrjackdempsey (12 Aug 2011)

They are looking swell, certainly a big improvement in colour. Fill us in about water conditions that they are enjoying at the moment ,whether you are adding adder cone or beech leaves or a commercial product, or are the tannins from bog wood.Just need the information in case I ever get the chance to 'liberate' them    Also great photo of said fish, I'm worried now that the powers that be might recongize these fish if they  ever makes it to my tanks


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## George Farmer (12 Aug 2011)

I'm using approx 95% RO, 5% tap. pH 6, conductivity 20µS/cm, temp 28C (82F)

The tannins are created via Indian almond leaf sachets - basically big tea-bags full of shredded Catappa leaves.

I put 3 sachets into a litre jug of boiling water, let it stew for 24hrs, then added to the tank.

The sachets are these.  I got mine from Aqua Essentials but not sure if they stock them anymore - http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/cata ... rodID=3454

I checked the tank 30 mins ago and I think they are spawning... Chasing each other around whilst a couple are nibbling at vertical pieces of wood.

It's really quite exciting!


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## NA-Fan (12 Aug 2011)

Incredible.  Not only can you aquascape, you can keep fish too!


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## clonitza (13 Aug 2011)

Lovely shot George! Such a bully looking fellow! Hope you keep them.

Mike


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## Mark Evans (13 Aug 2011)

Sweet pics mate!


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## mrjackdempsey (1 Nov 2011)

Were you ever able to a video of this tank, George?


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## George Farmer (1 Nov 2011)

mrjackdempsey said:
			
		

> Were you ever able to a video of this tank, George?


Yes mate. I'll try to upload it to YouTube soon.


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## mrjackdempsey (1 Nov 2011)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> mrjackdempsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  Give a job to a busy man and it gets done. Thanking you


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