# The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's vanished.



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jun 2012)

This tank has been running a while now and had a previous incarnation of a crab paludarium, since then i just flooded it  about 4 months ago and added a few cuttings.  This is what has pretty much created itself.










Super low tech, 11w light, couple of ml of ferts once a week and a 25% water change when i feel like it.  Ill be honest, this tank has really endeared me to low tech.    I tend to just forget about it with no consequences which i like.

Only plan is to finish the carpet and add some decent grade CRS when im feeling flush.

Just realised no front on shot    ill add one next time.

Hope you likey.


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## Ady34 (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Lush, loving the emersed plants too.
What size is this please?
Riccia carpet looks v.nice.
What ferts do you use for this?
and nevermind next time, add a fts now!


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## Iain Sutherland (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Lush, loving the emersed plants too.
> What size is this please?
> Riccia carpet looks v.nice.
> What ferts do you use for this?
> and nevermind next time, add a fts now!



lol, it try and grab a FTS, had a few beers though!
25ltr tank ady, with about 4ltrs of fluval stratum which i put in a couple of months ago.  Probably cant see but the tank is cut diagonally with a 4" high piece of slate which was the dry area for the crabs.
ferts are EI salts,  couldnt tell you how much as not weighed or measured i just chucked some in dosing bottles and added RO 4 months ago. i kinda figured that as ferts dont cause algae it really doesnt matter.
Im quite suprised how well the tank does considering i give it no real love.
Also amazed at the dwarf riccia carpet, it was just an experiment really (wanted to use my ADA riccia stones   ) ... it surpassed my expectations thats for sure.


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## Iain Sutherland (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*


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## Kristoph91 (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

This looks great Iain. Wouldn't have guessed it was low tech mate!

very well done


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## Piece-of-fish (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Nice bit of nature. Really amazed by riccia carpet without co2.
Amano would be jelous


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				KrisHumphreys1991 said:
			
		

> This looks great Iain. Wouldn't have guessed it was low tech mate!
> 
> very well done



Cheers kris, ill take that  8) 



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Nice bit of nature. Really amazed by riccia carpet without co2.
> Amano would be jelous



Does riccia tend to be more difficult without co2 then ed?? first time ive tried it   must be the ADA stones!
Im going to split it up maybe next week to spread over more stones, see what happens after that...


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## Alastair (28 Jun 2012)

*The forgotten nano*

Really really nice mate. I like it a lot


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## sr20det (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

That's lovely. Well done. Is that a almond leaf?  For shrimp? Or by outlet to reduce ph?


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Really really nice mate. I like it a lot



thanks al, me too   



			
				sr20det said:
			
		

> That's lovely. Well done. Is that a almond leaf?  For shrimp? Or by outlet to reduce ph?



cheers, almond leaf is for the shrimp mate but the hamshorn snails seem to appreciate it more!


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## Ian Holdich (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

great little nano! well done mate, as as Ed says, that riccia is in really good nick. This proves how little we can actually do with our tanks with a decent soil substrate.


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## Aqua sobriquet (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Very nice looking Nano Iain.


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## sarahtermite (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Looking very good! And that dwarf riccia is lush    - let me know if you have any going spare next time you trim it?


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> great little nano! well done mate, as as Ed says, that riccia is in really good nick. This proves how little we can actually do with our tanks with a decent soil substrate.



thanks iain, pretty sure this tank had convinced me to go low tech in the big tank next scape, then i see alistairs rotala and im sold!  



			
				Aqua sobriquet said:
			
		

> Very nice looking Nano Iain.


Need more plant mass now, some more needle leaf and other bits from piece of fish will help a lot. cheers aqua.



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> Looking very good! And that dwarf riccia is lush    - let me know if you have any going spare next time you trim it?




got it super healthy from logi-cat, wasnt expecting dwarf but chuffed it was.  Will be a long while as i'm splitting it this week to complete the carpet, touch wood, and takes a couple of months to fill in.  Maybe flick logi a message...


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## awtong (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Cracking little tank.

Andy


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## AAB (28 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

I am so jealous!! It looks amazing Iain.  Is this a fluval flora or Ebi?


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## Iain Sutherland (29 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

its a 25lt Qube from MA mate.


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## awtong (29 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Cracking little tank.
> 
> Andy



Not literally though.  maybe I should say fantastic?!   

Andy


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## dw1305 (29 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Hi all,
Nice tank. 





> Does riccia tend to be more difficult without co2 then....


No, it grows like an absolute weed without CO2, but when I've had it, it always escapes and ends up as a floating mass just below the surface. I now just leave it mixed up with _Utricularia gibba_ and let them get on with it.

cheers Darrel


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## faizal (30 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

This is awesome mate!!!   I didn't know we could grow riccia without co2.!! Iain could you kindly share with us how you had it tied down to the stone,...


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## ceg4048 (30 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

==>Riccia and Java moss carpets. Step-by-Step guide

Cheers,


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## faizal (30 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Cheers Clive.   I had thought as much but was wondering if Iain had tried something new.


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Jun 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

hey faizal, i used a shower puff thingy, put it over, spin it tight and a small zip tie to tie off.  Seems to work a treat... yet to have any bits float away.


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Got a load of shrimp in temporary residence..couple of pics.













seems the orchids like the tank water once a week also.


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## Ian Holdich (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

nice pics Iain...those orchids are going great guns!!

what camera are you using??


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## sarahtermite (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> seems the orchids like the tank water once a week also.


I do the same with my orchids, too!   

Very nice images of your tank


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## johnski (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> nice pics Iain...those orchids are going great guns!!
> 
> what camera are you using??



Canon EOS 550D according to the image data. 

Lookin good Iain mate.


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## Tim Harrison (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Hi Iain I've got a very similar tank, with 11w light just sitting in my garage doing nothing, I think its a SuperFish 25l...you've inspired me in to potential action...I just have to find a place to put it...hmmm.

But before I do I just want to pick your brains...is it filtered, how long is your photoperiod, and does it get any direct sunlight? Cause whatever you're doing you're obviously doing it very well; it looks smashing


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> nice pics Iain...those orchids are going great guns!!
> 
> what camera are you using??



cheers ian, is a 550d with 60mm macro and a shaky hand.  Think i need to invest in ones of those bendy mini tripods.
I water changes straight into the orchid pots and leave them for the day soaking then tip the excess out.  Seems to work a treat.. hanging basket doesnt mind it either.



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> I do the same with my orchids, too!
> Very nice images of your tank





			
				johnski said:
			
		

> Canon EOS 550D according to the image data.
> Lookin good Iain mate.



thanks folks your kind words are very encouraging.



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> Hi Iain I've got a very similar tank, with 11w light just sitting in my garage doing nothing, I think its a SuperFish 25l...you've inspired me in to potential action...I just have to find a place to put it...hmmm.
> 
> But before I do I just want to pick your brains...is it filtered, how long is your photoperiod, and does it get any direct sunlight? Cause whatever you're doing you're obviously doing it very well; it looks smashing



Hey troi, i run a £9 ebay hob filter on it and a while ago added a tiny 15cm internal just to break up the surface as a bit of biofilm started to appear, its gone now but with so many shrimp in i thought id leave it in. Lights on for 10 hours with a very little day light on the right side through the patio doors, but not really direct light.
 Do it mate, 11w seems to be the magic number in this size tank.


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## faizal (14 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> hey faizal, i used a shower puff thingy, put it over, spin it tight and a small zip tie to tie off.  Seems to work a treat... yet to have any bits float away.



Cheers Iain  ,...that's a novel idea mate. I love this little nano. And riccia without co2 is just amazing.


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

ive just spread it out again mate so hopefully get a full carpet...  5 minute job with shower poof.


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## Kristoph91 (14 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

That's a great shot of the tank, moss looks super healthy!


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## Iain Sutherland (14 Jul 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Thanks kris, The moss has been unreal in this tank, needs trimming weekly really. Do struggle with crypts in this tank for some reason... Will be adding some more next week to try again though. 
The microsorum is odd though as it's just a standard plant which was in 3 inches of water when I had crabs, haha, it dropped all long leaves now it just stays compact..... Maybe this is how tropic came up with the 'microsorum mini'???


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## Iain Sutherland (1 Aug 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

some new emergent growth, ludwigia and hydrocotyle sp. japan just taking its fist breaths..


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## Alastair (1 Aug 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> some new emergent growth, ludwigia and hydrocotyle sp. japan just taking its fist breaths..



Very nice mate. The ludwigia looks lovely emmersed. 


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## Iain Sutherland (1 Aug 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

cheers al, the lugwigia is pleasing


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## Iain Sutherland (23 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Had a few changes to this tank, i think the wood was rotting so have swopped for some nano manzi, swopped the ebay filter for an eheim liberty, standard microsorum is now gone so more space to experiment with the riccia carpet.. spread it again last week so with luck aside from a couple of small gaps should have a full carpet once grown back.

Then the really good news.... got some taiwan bee hybrids from Freshwatershrimp today, they are in and settling. I will try and get some pics later.  Beautiful shrimp and a pleasure to see ed and radiks set up again.. was only going for the trip while dave picked up his nano!! had a pocket full of cash and couldnt help myself.


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## Tim Harrison (23 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

Looking splendid, having a move around and will have space soon, going to have to get that cube out of the garage and follow suit


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## Iain Sutherland (24 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*

cheers Tim, not quite follow suit.. im sure yours will have a muddy bottom!   Another journal to look forward to.

So i had to go to work as soon as the shrimp were in so have been a little distracted.. anyway managed to get one good snap before lights out.





Been trying to get rid of the cherries but they keep coming back  

Love them, got 3 black, 1 white and a red. Just need the other 10 now


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## tim (24 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Damn nice shrimp


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## Iain Sutherland (24 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

One more





Got a bit of bba in the tank as increased the lighting period to speed up the riccia.... bad idea lol


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## Ady34 (24 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Lovely shrimp Iain....were all guilty of being a little light greedy at times


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## nduli (25 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Super shrimp - keep the piccies coming.


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## Iain Sutherland (28 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Bees seem happy.


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## Ian Holdich (28 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

love them mate!!


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## jack-rythm (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> KrisHumphreys1991 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just wanted to say that I have never used co2 to grow ricin ever? I even grow it in a wallstad bowl on my window sill.. It pearls and everything. I think realistically ricin is a very very hardy plant and will grow in any condition.. Looks class though. Can see why it's called the forgotten nano! Lol


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## jack-rythm (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

I meant riccia.... Damn phone


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## Iain Sutherland (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Hey there, hope your arent doing anything with ricin!!No doubt some government super computer will be tracking this thread now  
The only things i have noticed is that it needs reasonable light, any shaded parts do nothing.
I have just moved a few stones into the high tech just to see how it goes, i am dosing a good amount of liquid carbo too (BBA after the flood etc...) into the high tech which riccia doesnt like apparently but time will tell...

I have finally sorted out another TDS meter that works...  tap is 280 and this tank is 180.  A little high for the bees so will try and bring that down to 140ish over the coming weeks.  Quite happy to see my RO is 12 though, thought it might be higher as have never changed a filter  

Quite keen to redo this tank with just dwarf riccia and hardscape.  The bees love foraging around in it.


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## Iain Sutherland (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's in.*

Update, the carpet  will need one more spread onto some more rocks and should be done.  I swopped out the wood for some nano manzi (just thrown in for now) as i felt the last stuff was rotting, added in some more narrow java, upgraded the filter to an eheim liberty and popped in an airstone for the bees, all is well.  TDS is a little high at 180 but slowly bring that down, temp still kept at 22.  Seems i have just one female bee which means i need to get the other 10 soon if i want to see any babies.


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## Iain Sutherland (18 Nov 2012)

*Re: The forgotten nano... taiwan bee's vanished*

strange happenings in this tank.. came home from aquatics live and 4 bees have vanished, didnt worry too much as thought maybe they may have just molted but a week later and still no sign.  I had a rummage around moving some plants, checking in the filter etc but no, so i guess i have lost them..??

Ive been trying to think what may have caused this..
1- climbed out - unlikely as on the kitchen counter and no husks to be seen... and 4 at once isnt likely.
2 - massive snail outbreak - was managing this daily by removing them, maybe this caused starvation?  also think unlikely.
3 - shrimp guard added- is it possible this contained copper?  also think its unlikely...
4 - stupidity - MOST LIKELY, by managing the snail outbreak i was dipping a finger into the tank a lot to wipe the babies off the glass and probably wasnt as careful as i should have been about washing my hands before and could have contaminated the water and all the snails have eaten the bodies while at AL.
5 - someone broke in while i was at aquatics live and took them 

As stupidity is the likely cause i have learnt an expensive lesson, always use long tweezers/scissors and long shrimp net to do anything in a bee tank or be sure to wash your hands really well before.  Interestingly whatever caused it hasnt effected the snow white bee - he's nails!!

So figure that this is as good a time as any to rescape this tank then get some more bee's once settled... watch this space.


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## logi-cat (18 Nov 2012)

I think its reason number 5, lok


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## Iain Sutherland (18 Nov 2012)

ill be keping an eye on your new shrimp nano journal then


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## mlgt (19 Nov 2012)

Shrimps can be elusive and hide well, but if you said you have rummaged through things then I guess they might have died and been disposed of by other shrimps.

Can happen very quickly as I know shrimps can eat a dead shrimp overnight with the aid of snails. 

Hope you do find the rest.

R


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## Piece-of-fish (20 Nov 2012)

Interesting really. How have you cleaned those snails you say? Killing them in the tank or takin them out?
If first I would say polluted water but if second then no idea.


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Nov 2012)

Hey Ed,I have been taking adults out whole and wiping the babies of the glass with my finger.
Its a mystery but only good news for you mate!


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## Piece-of-fish (21 Nov 2012)

Heh, bad news for shrimp keepers arent good news for us   
Since the tank is relatively small it still might be that those baby snail meat got the water quality down. Only reason I could think off. Especially if you were doing that for some period of time. Dirty hands is a possibility but quite unlikely, depends where you put your hands though before  8)


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## jack-rythm (21 Nov 2012)

Are u saying snails kill baby shrimp? Or do they just eat dead baby shrimp?

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## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Heh, bad news for shrimp keepers arent good news for us


Just joking mate, going to rescape this tank when time allows and then ill come down to see you guys and pick some sweets from the candy store   

 you dont want to know where my hands have been.



			
				jack-rythm said:
			
		

> Are u saying snails kill baby shrimp? Or do they just eat dead baby shrimp?


Hey jack, saying that if you squash snails in the tank then the bodies could degrading the water quality.

Think it will remain a mystery this time round...


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## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

The good ol' days


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## basil (21 Nov 2012)

Jump back on and get some more......


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## Iain Sutherland (8 Mar 2013)

This tank has now been closed down and a new and improved one will follow shortly.
Itching to get some more bee's in the kitchen 
Thanks to all for looking and commenting.


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## charlie (8 Mar 2013)

A great little tank and journal. Shame you lost some of the shrimp. Looking forward to the re scape.


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