# Black hair algae on plants.  I’ve done everything I can!!



## hongsit (28 Nov 2018)

Hi,

Need some help again as I’m seriously about to give up with this planted tank!!  Something I don’t want to do but it’s really discouraging to face constant issues even if you feel you done everything that’s recommended.  I’ve researched and researched but I seem to be battling algae all the time.

So my tank measures 120cm x 50cm x 70cm height.
Spec’d as 329l.  Been up and running for 4 months.  I have injected co2, currently running with the two original 20w led tubes which is of 2350 lumens each.
I have another two superfish led tubes which is currently not used, these are around 5000lumens each.  I did use all four led lights about 4 weeks ago, but an outbreak of staghorn algae made me switch the two superfish leds off for the time Being.

Filter I have FX4 and a JBL e1502 combined flow would be around 4000l/min.

I have never had lights on more than 8hrs but recently have the lights on for 6hrs only.

Co2 comes on 2hrs before and 1hr before lights off.

My nitrate and phosphate is high out of the tap, nitrate being 40ppm, phosphate can’t remember but it was high.  I know test kits are unreliable and I’ve have ignored them for now.

I have mostly easy growing plants, java fern, amazon swords, crypts, can’t remember most of the names.
I’ve recently added water sprite (4 weeks ago) which is meant to be a fast grower, however I haven’t noticed much growth!!  I have no idea why but am I expecting too much in 4 weeks?

I have Tropica soil and I’m dosing full EI, 10ml per 50l water. 

Ammonia and nitrite is 0.

I’m trying to get rid of the algae but it’s difficult as I can’t remove all the plants, so I’m trimming back the worst impacted leaves.  However it seems to be never ending.  I’ve bought and replaced plants but the new plants just slowly succumb to hair algae.

I’ve attached a few pics to give you an idea of my tank.  The co2 is below the fx4 outlet and directs the bubbles all over the tank.
Drop checker is light green at lights on.

I honestly don’t  know what else to do, I’ve done everything that’s been recommended but I need some help/guidance in terms of what to do next.  

I started EI dosing around 4 weeks ago.

I’m relatively new to this hobby and I love it, but as I said it’s discouraging to face constant hair algae issues and I just can enjoy the tank, so any help suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


























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## john dory (28 Nov 2018)

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Your tank looks quite nice.
According to dennis wong..No drastic action should be taken against a bit of hair algae.
Just keep up a good maintenance schedule...and as the plant mass increases,the algae decreases.

Good luck.


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## hongsit (28 Nov 2018)

Thank you John, yes I wasn’t sure if my expectations were a bit too high.

I’m not sure if you classify this as a tiny bit of hair algae or bad?

I’m pretty sure that will get worse over the next few days.  But as I mentioned are my expectations to high, have I not given it enough time for the plants to stabilise and adapt?  Is my constant trimming and try to get rid of algae making things worse?






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## john dory (28 Nov 2018)

I wouldn't call that bad.
Maybe drop the lighting intensity a touch..or even a standard dose of glut.
Don't be too eager to trim.


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## Easternlethal (28 Nov 2018)

I agree. the level of cleanlines you're aiming for needs a LOT of pruning and pinching out every last bit of bba. As far as I know It's not possible to get there by just letting things grow naturally. 

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## Harry H (28 Nov 2018)

Maybe add EasyCarbo to help? Maybe try that, but I agree with others, your tank looks good, keep up your schedule, maybe up water changes for a little while...


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## hongsit (28 Nov 2018)

Thank you guys, I’ll take all that onboard and just let things be.  I do 50%+ water changes weekly, hopefully that’s enough.

I have been dosing TNC carbon which I assume is the same thing?  Some of the hair algae has turned red so I’m hoping my amano will start taking interest in them.

John the light is currently set at 40w about 4700 lumens, I consider that is quite low lighting, the only thing I can do is just have one on, would that be too low?


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## john dory (28 Nov 2018)

Sorry mate..I can't answer that,as I'm unfamiliar with your lighting set up.
I think you only need"tweeks"from where you are now.


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## john dory (28 Nov 2018)

And remember...even the most beautiful tanks go through periods,when they are not at their best.


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## hongsit (28 Nov 2018)

Thank you John, and thanks for the encouragement, glad to know I’m not doing too badly.  


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## Jasp0123 (28 Nov 2018)

Try adding a flying fox.


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## Edvet (28 Nov 2018)

???


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## Barbara Turner (28 Nov 2018)

The start is the hardest bit.. As the plants get bigger It will get easier. 
What's your lighting period? (should be 6 ish hours to start with)

Another trick is to place the drop checker next to the worst affected plants to check they are getting the Co2

Are you applying the TNC carbon with a syringe straight onto the worst affected plants?
Also a 24 hour back out from time to time will give the algae a far harder time than the plants. 

I would probably also try and increase the plant mass, you could add something like Elodea Densa that's  cheap and very fast growing. 
Rip it out in 3 months time when your plants have grown and everything has settled down.


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## hongsit (28 Nov 2018)

Thanks Barbara, my lighting is currently at 6hrs, yes applying the tnc carbon with syringe right on the plant.  May get more plants I don’t think I have many fast growers.  Just trying to find space to plant 

A bit more encouraged after reading the responses 



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## sparkyweasel (28 Nov 2018)

I agree with Barbara, get some fast-growing plants to increase the plantmass quickly, and remove them when the plants you actually want have grown bigger and/or spread.


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## dw1305 (29 Nov 2018)

Hi all, 





Barbara Turner said:


> I would probably also try and increase the plant mass, you could add something like Elodea Densa that's cheap and very fast growing.
> Rip it out in 3 months time when your plants have grown and everything has settled down


Agreed, more plants. <"_Ceratophyllum demersum">_ is a good one if you can find it, and or a <"floating plant">.

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy (29 Nov 2018)

hongsit said:


> face constant hair algae issues





dw1305 said:


> . <"_Ceratophyllum demersum">_ is a good one


Difficult to have no algae. As others have said more fast growing plants. As Darrel says Tropical hornwort is a good filler. Just float it, it doesn't have roots and your aquas-cape would remain unaltered. Also a good indicator of light levels, too little light and the plant becomes leggy with elongation between nodes. Too much light and its green colour bleaches out.

You could try spot treating algae with 'liquid carbon' put the tank dose directly onto the algae. Hydrogen peroxide dosed onto the algae also works. Use a teat pipette, or go to your local chemists and cadge an oral syringe. Fish that eat hair algae always end up liking fish food better.


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## Iskánder Vigoa (30 Nov 2018)

Hey man I'm not an expert, not even close, but I have been able of having my tank algae free, or at least as free as not considering it a problem, I have an algae eater fish, a bristlenose pleco, and besides 3 plants hanging on the back with their roots on the water that take most of the nutrients the alga needs, and it works almost instantly, don't know the actual names but here's a picture:


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## dw1305 (30 Nov 2018)

Hi all,





Iskánder Vigoa said:


> it works almost instantly, don't know the actual names but here's a picture:


"Pothos" <"_Epipremnum aureus">.
_
It is good one.

cheers Darrel


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## hongsit (30 Nov 2018)

Thanks all for the suggestions, spoke to Dave at aquarium gardens and bought a few fast growing stem plants.  Will look at he floating plants and see if I can find some this weekend.


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## Nuno Gomes (24 Dec 2018)

When I was looking at your description of the problem I was expecting a lot worse, this means you truly want to succeed and are willing to accept that something is not right, which is a good start.
Like others have said, your tank doesn't look bad at all, no aquascape is completely algae free, even professionals have their share of problems - watch the video Green Aqua made about quality control on their showroom tanks, there's some algae in them, but it's kept to a minimum with regular maintenance.
As for your tank, besides what everyone else said, I'd increase the frequency of maintenance and water changes. Maybe do 50% twice a week, and make sure you dont let debris sit on the plants for too long, wave them around with your hand and suck out the dust and you kick up.


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## bugs (25 Dec 2018)

FWIW... Here's my battle with algae. I've been keeping planted tanks on and off for about 20 years. High tech and low tech. I was spoilt by an incredibly good experience with my first tank; following the precise methodology set out by some brothers from just north of Milton Keynes who also had a shop in Crews Hill north London (I seem to recall they were continuing the work of their father). It was largely the same methodology for high-tech we see today but sold in a complete package of CO2, 3-4 bottles of food with a dosing plan, substrates etc. The only thing that has changed is the use of heated cables no longer being popular.

Nevertheless, what I've learnt is that persistence is what seems to pay off - the tricky bit is working out what to be persistent doing (or not doing)!..... My only advice is to be persistently patient! Seek advice and choose which to follow based on your observations of what is happening in the tank and how it reacts to intervention or leaving alone. My initial plan for this tank was to use plants of sizes suitable for the size of the tank (i.e. were not growing out the top / across the top). I've abandoned that concept and just planted four (additional) "easy" fast and potentially large stem plants plus one other I liked the look of ("medium" difficulty). One of my four easy's is Elodea Densa - actually quite a nice plant. The idea being I'm going to massively push up the plant mass.

My primary intention is to simply keep on top of the algae rather than stop it completely. In my view the former takes the pressure off finding an instant solution and therefore lurching from one idea to the next; it gives time to observe and manage and probably most importantly learn what really makes a difference.


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## Tim Harrison (26 Dec 2018)

Like most problems the key is to identify the root cause and not just treat the symptoms. I think most algae problems occur because of too much light. The higher the light intensity the less wriggle room and the greater the chance that a mistake will allow algae to get a grip.
Optimising CO2 flow and distribution is key to healthy plant growth and a healthy tank. Good tank husbandry also helps, mainly by reducing the organic load which invariably triggers algal growth.
Healthy plant growth, high plant biomass and a biologically mature aquarium make for a very robust system which will resist algae.


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## zozo (26 Dec 2018)

Last 6 months i have an aquarium without lights, it's an old once was high tech scape already running for 4 years the last 2 years it's low tech and it gets no ferts.. It stands almost 2 metre away from an east fased window that's the only light it gets, containing a load of old anubias nana petite that grew into a big dense bush, bolbitis and Süßwassertang...

Funny thing is all the way down in and on the anubias roots there are some rather thick clumps of BBA growing, that is no lights and still growing in the most shaded spots of the tank. Lately discovered it with a flash light shinning in, it's barely noticable with the naked eye. Did cut some anubias out to place in an other tank. It had several roots all the way bellow the leaves covered in bba completely out of sight could see it till i cut a piece of plant out..

Here is one ball of BBA on a anubias root in sight all the way down at the substrate level under overhanging leaves almost in a dark cave. 

Circled in red you see a new small clump of BBA growing on a root.





No idea which rodophyta sp. it is, but it grows about in the dark and preferably on the anubias roots.. The leaves are all free of BBA.

Also funny is, there is another tank without lights next to it, 30 cm from the same window recieving more light, no anubias but other plants but absolutely no BBA.

I wonder what it is with this algae and anubias?.. They seem to have a love hate relationship. In the BBA sticky somebody stated something about Vitamin B2 secreted from bacteria as a food source for algae. It might be the bacteria living on the roots feeding it.

This experience tells me, if the conditions are right it doesn't care much for light. Interestingly versatile organisme that BBA.. 

Root cause, funny play of words in this case, but it beats me, it aint to much light because its an absolute minimum, it aint ferts, becasue it gets non from me.. Or it is and both are extremely relative..


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## Tim Harrison (26 Dec 2018)

Interesting indeed. My failed last scape was covered in BBA. I managed to rescue some of the plants by removing the worst infested leaves.
I then placed the plants in a holding tank without CO2, knowing that they were still not totally free from the stuff and were very likely to become reinfested.

Anyway, when I got around to sorting through the plants again for my new scape, a couple of weeks later, I expected to have to throw them away, but they were totally clean; not a hair of BBA in sight 
I was overdosing the holding tank with LC, but similarly overdosing the doomed scape didn't make the slightest bit of difference.

It's highly likely that the root cause of the infestation was the rotting wood and consequent high organic load after all.
Like I mentioned I think organic load must play a key role in Algae infestations too.


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## zozo (26 Dec 2018)

Tim Harrison said:


> Like I mentioned I think organic load must play a key role in Algae infestations too.



I think you are on to something.. Might also be it a tropical algae sp. that likes warmth too. Till now i never had any of it in the non heated setups. I can throw BBA infested stuff in and it just dies like it doesn't like to live or fully develop bellow 22°C. The 2 only tanks i have it are both heated + 22°C and it even grows on the heaters in the lit sump..

In th etank with the sump that only is skimmed by the overflows has a higher load at the substrate it also grows BBA on the substrate. I have soem lava grit mixed in, it's always on the porous lava grains..


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## Tim Harrison (26 Dec 2018)

Temperature related algal growth is a good point. Green Aqua mention it in the video below. They put algal growth down to high temps resulting in filter bacterial activity not being able to keep up with organic release, but I also think you might be right Marcel in that it's far simpler and just environmental. Obviously BOD may play a role too.
The holding tank was cooler than the temp my scape was kept at, so that might be another reason the algae disappeared. Overall BBA, like many algal spp., probably thrive owing to an unfortunate synergism of variables.


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## st.john (14 Jan 2019)

I've used willow whips in the past to suck up excess nutrients.. works well albeit look a tad odd sticking out the top! They'll take root from a cutting in no time and grow like the proverbial. Easy to remove with no disturbance to the tank. Just shove 4 or 5 x 6 inch whips in the top of the tank. 
Your tank looks lovely btw - don't get done in!


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## dw1305 (15 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





st.john said:


> I've used willow whips in the past to suck up excess nutrients.


Very old school, but it works.

We have a journal by @Greenfinger2  <"Wind in the Willows">, and I think Marcel @zozo has used them as well?

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (15 Jan 2019)

dw1305 said:


> I think Marcel @zozo has used them as well?



I did in the very dark past..  I guess its a very old maybe Roman Catholic custom, our region is/was.. But about every year in every household you could find the Easter tree a vase with Willow Whips (Catkins) as decoration in the house during easter with easter eggs hanging in it.



Some Catholic aqaurium hobbyist likely most have tought, if it lives that long in a vase on the cabinet it will in the aqaurium as well.. It most be one of the earliest if not first emersed plant in the aqaurium ever used.

btw curl hazel was also used for this, actualy never treid that one.. 

Dont know if there is a traditional culural connection to the Willow or Hazel as eatser tree, or if it just was choosen because they are easy to keep like that.


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## zozo (15 Jan 2019)

Looked it up, Easter Tree actualy is an even older Germanic Tree cult/worship tradition that was adopted (converted) by Christianity.


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