# Should I be dosing my low tech?



## Hooky (21 Nov 2016)

So I have a juwel rio 125 set up low tech with stock lighting (without reflectors) and filter, and scapers soil as substrate. The tank has now been set up for 6 days and although there has certainly been growth with the majority of the plants i am now starting to see some melt which leads me to think should I be considering dosing some kind of ferts?

Plants that are in the tank are:

starougyne repens - some slight melt on tips of a few plants but seems to be growing 
Giant Hairgrass - doing well currently 
rotala rotundifolia - doing well currently 
limnophila sessiliflora - after some trimming now growing nicely
cryptocoryne petchii - has suffered the most with melt 

lights are on 6 hours a day currently


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## Greenfinger2 (21 Nov 2016)

Hi Hooky, I add half dose of ferts to my low tech setups  from day one .
Crypt and Starougyne suffer melt quite often. The plants will soon bounce back once they settle in


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## Hooky (21 Nov 2016)

Would something like tropica premium fertiliser be suitable for my set up?

with the Starougyne should i trim off the leaves that start to melt or just leave them?


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## Greenfinger2 (21 Nov 2016)

Hi Hooky. Others will know more about ferts 

I do EI and only use dry ferts. Its the cheapest way 
I leave them and suck out anything when doing my weekly water change.


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## Greenfinger2 (21 Nov 2016)

Hi Hooky, This thread will help with ferts

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/good-fert.47842/


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## Hooky (21 Nov 2016)

do you have a link you could send me to look at EI ferts?


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## ian_m (21 Nov 2016)

http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

Just following instructions using what ever teaspoons you have available. Done.


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## Greenfinger2 (21 Nov 2016)

ian_m said:


> http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html
> 
> Just following instructions using what ever teaspoons you have available. Done.



You beat me to it Ian


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## Hooky (21 Nov 2016)

Cheers guys


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## zozo (21 Nov 2016)

Melting plant leaves are best removed as much as possible.. As Roy says crypts are known to melt away when moved to other water parameters but will come back. But since it is a slow grower you need some patience with that.. S. Repens is known to even be difficult sometimes in High Tech tanks, but like the crypts and most other plants need to go throught the first transition. If S. Repens will come back is a questionmark in any case.

Regarding low tech and ferts it indeed is best to start with a low dosage and work your way up from there if needed.. It is for low tech the same as for high tech, it is a game play of plantgrowth. plantmass and light intensity/duration and bioload... Only high tech will be a lot faster because of the extra added co2, so extra ferts are needed much sooner to do something with that.. Ofcourse the substrate used playes a major roll too regarding the proper fert regime... Mine was started completely inert.. 

After about 10 months growing in i treat my low tech the same as my high tech, both get the same amount of ferts and consequently the weekly 25% water change. In my personal experience i have best results in a long light duration and a lower intensity, with the use of a dimmer a burst of high intensity for 5 hours and 6 hours low intensity. But regarding tank size, light power etc. this is a trail and error style of experimenting to find out how the tank coops with it. It's a good thing to have a bunch of floating vegitation anyway to handle a higher fert regime and help with reducing light intensity for the submersed growth. A light dimmer is imho a must with the longer periodes technique.

I dose weekly 20 ppm NO3, 4 ppm N, a bit over 10 ppm K, minimal 0.5 ppm P and 2 ppm Mg and 3 ml traces with iron. With a relatively low bioload. Next to this i noticed the crypts still appreciating extra root feeding with (iron rich) laterite clay balls. I have mainly crypts, java, anubias, mosses and some hair grass in this tank and algae under control..

Must say it is running exactly 1 year now and still only half way of it's full potential. Hence it is (s)low tech.. 

Bottom line is.. There are many factors to take into account how to properly dose a low tech tank and there is no easy answer. Work with what your plants tell you.. But since your tank is only 6 days old plants wont yet tell you much, i guess there is no livestock yet and plants are still in transition.. Depending the substrate you used, you might not need to dose for the first 2 months at all. But if you do, do as Roy says, go for dry salts and mix your own, cheaper and way easier to dose and add only what you need.. If you plan a decent livestock you might not need so much nitrate.. With a complete fert you have no say in that, you always add the complete package and probably only wasting money adding things you do not need..


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## Hooky (21 Nov 2016)

Thanks zozo 

My substrate is Dennerle Scaper's Soil not sure how many of you guys have used this in your tanks or if it's any good. should I do a large water change now at 6 days old ?


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## Greenfinger2 (21 Nov 2016)

Hi Hooky, The startup is the same low med or high tech. First week 50 % water change  everyday. Then 50% every second day. Then 50% twice a week then 4th week 50% per week


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## Doubu (22 Nov 2016)

This might sound counter intuitive... But I think you should have your lights on lower intensity or duration until it roots in which may take a couple weeks. Reason being is that your strong lighting is telling your plants to grow, it tries to pull nutrients from the bottom but roots aren't developed so it ends up eating itself, which may explain why plants melt from the bottom up or the leaves die off first. Once rooted, you can take up your lighting and everything else. Just my theory but will be testing it soon on my pending setup tanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hooky (22 Nov 2016)

Thanks doubu 

I was always under the impression that the stock 2X 28w t5 was classed as low light although they do appear to be fairly bright. How long do you think I should be running the lights fot?

I will lower the light and start regular big water changes from today and see what happebd.


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## foxfish (22 Nov 2016)

2 x T5 the length of the tank was (is) the standard fitment for a high tech tank, then a few years ago LED came along and confused everyone!


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## Hooky (22 Nov 2016)

So does this mean my lighting is high (high tech) ? if so how will this affect my low tech plans for my tank?


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## zozo (22 Nov 2016)

Most likely excess algae growth if light is to strong regarding the plantmass and growspeed. You could throw in some floating vegitation, Salvinia, frogbit, duckweed etc. this will filter the light naturaly and since they are floating they will have al the atmospheric co2 they need and take up any excess of ferts in the water column. As long the floaters do not show insufficiencies there is enough ferts in the water.. That's a win win and cheapest sollution for filtering light. It works like a charme.. 

As in most tanks the flow probably will push the floaters towards one side of the tank and you will have a area free of floaters. That's the place you best put the plants requiring the most light and grow the fastest.. For example most crypts grow slow and still grow nice in very low light and the limnophila, rotala and staurogyne are plants requiring a bit more. Slow growers are prone to grow algae sooner than plants growing faster.. So plant the slow growers under the floaters (filtered light) and the faster growers under the non covered area getting non filtered light.


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## Hooky (22 Nov 2016)

I will do a 50% water change tonight and reduce the light to maybe 4 hours, how does this sound? also during water changes do you guys just add cold water or warm water. Does adding cold water shock the plant during water change?

lastly how long should i leave the rotala and staurogyne before i trim and re plant?


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## Hooky (23 Nov 2016)

So did a 40 -50% water change last night and have put lights to 4 hours will continue with the water change for rest of the week and see if there is any improvement. 

I have now noticed that the giant hairgrass is now turning yellow which wasn't affected before hopefully this is just the plants settling down.


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## Hooky (25 Nov 2016)

Plants seem to be responding to the daily WC except for the giant hairgrass, at what point should I start to increase the photo-period again. I started with 6 hours a day for the first 6 days but have since cut down to 4 hours?

Any help on this would be appreciated


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## Manisha (4 Dec 2016)

Hi, how's it going?
I run a low tech big & small tank & think 6 hours should be fine to begin with so I don't think increasing from 4 - 6 hours after a couple of weeks should be a problem!
Did you figure out whether your light was high/low? I noticed you are growing limnophila sessiflora & there have been discussion here about it's growth & appearance under high/low light. It seems to go against the grain and seems under low light grow more compact & under high light grows more long & leggy. The appearance of the new growth might help identify what lighting level you have?


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## Hooky (5 Dec 2016)

Hi Manisha 

Well had abit of a nightmare to be honest with the current scape. Although I had extensively cleaned the Dragon stone I was constantly having dust from the rockets covering the plants so have decided to ditch it and will pick up some bogwood next time at my local LFS. 

I have put lights to 6 hours and things are looking good new growth on all the plants apart from giant hairgrass that has totally melted so had to be removed. The sessiflora is growing more bushy with the new growth. I will maybe give it another week and maybe give it a trim.

I am still not dosing frets but reasonably happy with new growth admittedly slow, will growth speed up in low tech if I start to dose IE frets on a regular basis?


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## Manisha (8 Dec 2016)

Sorry about you bad experience with dragon stone. I've not used it but have found a similar effect when using aquasoil - dust everywhere for ages! I know you've now removed but for future reference - I found agitating anywhere covered in it with my hand, so that it's in 'suspension' (probably the wrong word!) and remove during water change - it does eventually subside in time!
Bushy sessiflora might suggest low light, so if you decide to start I'd like Roy & Marcel suggested try a lower dose. Clive's EI thread is based on high light levels of 5/6 watt per gallon & co2 injection as a comparison.
I dose TNC complete (liquid fertiliser) three times per week. It should be 24mls each time & I tried 10mls instead & it seems ok.
If you don't dose at all, you may find you get less than optimum growth & have to troubleshoot what is lacking. I think @dw1305 discussed "Liebig's law of the minimum" & explains that the plant can have plenty of most nutrients but it's growth will be limited by whichever nutrient that is low. So dosing in excess means you only have to worry about balancing your light & co2.


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## Hooky (8 Dec 2016)

Would you recommend TNC complete for low tech? I dont mind dosing ferts but would rather stay clear of adding CO2 at the moment. Do you think using something like TNC complete alone will benefit the plant?

Also I am using dennerle scaper's soil should this not give off enough nutrients alone in a low tech set up?


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## Manisha (8 Dec 2016)

I like using TNC Complete for my low tech without co2 but you can use other brands or mix your own dry salts if you'd prefer? Though when I started my planted tanks I used aquasoil & was unsure how to introduce a fertilising regime in my low tech. I tried adding Tropica premium (trace nutrients) after a few weeks but started adding TNC Complete when another member recommended it for a different tank.
My most recent low tech nano tank I used aquasoil & added TNC Complete from the start & have had consistent growth without any problems so far.
I think enriched soils are a great start to a planted tank low or high tech but I think the nutrient supply it provides will exhaust overtime. I guess this will happen more slowly in a low tech but will vary depending on the plant mass & type you keep. I just prefer to cover myself from the start with adding fertilisers!


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## Hooky (8 Dec 2016)

I might give the Tropica premium a go, can pick some up tonight on my way home. Also going to add some ludwigia palustris and fissidens fontanus if they have some at LFS


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## HannahFergusonFan (13 Dec 2016)

Adding a bit of Liquid CO2 will do good job for you, having good light but not providing enough CO2 will be like giving half food to a man. Liquid CO2 won't cost much. I have dwarf hair grass it scares me every time I plant it, it turns the whole bunch will turn brown as if it is going to die soo after 1-2 days I can see the new growth.


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## linkinruss (7 Jan 2017)

Doubu said:


> Reason being is that your strong lighting is telling your plants to grow, it tries to pull nutrients from the bottom but roots aren't developed so it ends up eating itself, which may explain why plants melt from the bottom up or the leaves die off first.


I never thought of it like this and is the likely explanation for my plants doing the same thing. 
I always tend to shorten the duration of lights on when a mass of new plants have been added.


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