# Sos im at a loss



## malawistu (13 Sep 2018)

Hi there im at a total loss ive had my tank for almost two months aqua nano 40 had it running a month with no fish and a couple of plants then i added 6 shadow cat fish at 3cm and the week after planted rest of the tank up ran co2 1 bubble about every 2 seconds  and started to ad low amounts of ferts added 4 cherry shrimp 5 days after planting then all of a sudden over 2 weeks iv lost 4 cat fish and 3 shrimp  but my water pram are spot on ph is 6.6 with co2 on 50% water change every week was thinking it may have been something on the new plants was thinking of adding some Polyfilter pads but will tjis just remove my firts i dont run carbon any help would  b greatly appreciate I'm not new to fish keeping but it has been about 4 to 5 years since I've kept fish and planted tanks


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## tam (13 Sep 2018)

What have you done to cycle the tank? A few plants, particularly if they are slow growers won't be able to cope with the waste. Have you done a fishless cycle/added established media to build up the necessary bacteria (running an empty tank won't do this)?

Have you tested for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate to check how your cycle is doing?


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## malawistu (13 Sep 2018)

Tank is fully cycled ammonia nitrite nitrate all at 0 i used tetra quick start and a bit of fish food same way as ive done tanks for years before its something thats not obvious ive checked all normals stuff


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## tam (13 Sep 2018)

Your nitrate shouldn't be at 0 if your tank is cycled. Are you sure you test kit is still good - make sure you really shake the bottle of reagent well.

Plants can be treated against snails which will effect shrimp if not rinsed, usually more a problem with bunched plants/cheap imports - the name brands like tropica are fine. That won't effect fish though, just shrimp/snails. It's usually a pretty quick reaction - you can see them acting oddly - not gradual over weeks.

Have the fish shown any symptoms?


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## malawistu (13 Sep 2018)

Ive always had near 0 nitrates in my tanks even when i had my 6ft malawi tank that was way over stocked not swimming properly with there tails up head down if you understand me


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## tam (13 Sep 2018)

Hmmm, I'd be tempted to take a water sample in to your LFS they'll often do a free test if you lost livestock. Plants can use it all up but usually you need an established tank with lots of fast growing plants and not to be adding more in via fertiliser.

I take it you are using decholorinator? Sometimes water companies swap between chlorine v. chloramine and that can catch you out if you've moved/they've changed since you last used the water.


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## malawistu (13 Sep 2018)

Im not new to keeping fish i used to breed f1/f2 Malawi and i ran a marine nano for 4 years and loads of fresh water planted tanks im still in same house the aqua safe seems to have been fine regardless of water company and my 2 lfs are about 10 min drive away and they only use tap water with such as aqua safe i even wonded if there could be anything coming oit of my rocks pebbles from my lfs or the wood but i boiled both like i have before jist seen my last cherry looks fine loverly and red


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## malawistu (13 Sep 2018)

And both shops only use same api master test kit same as i have


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## soggybongo (13 Sep 2018)

like you i have kept a marine aquarium so was an avid tester of water quality however! now please dont take this the wrong way but running a tank for a month and thinking it is fully cycled could have been the down fall, now i aint saying this is set in stone as i do not know your full setup mate. Also adding quite lage fish all at once will have put a big ask on your bio load to cope with. and to top it off testing your water whilst using ferts is going to give a false reading so please check your test results as having zero on all your test results seems like something is amis. 
i started my tank 4 months ago (dsm) flooded it 3 weeks ago and i'm still getting spikes even though hi tech fully planted using ro water and thats doing 75% water changes twice per week over the last 2 weeks. hopefully someone else will be able to help but for now i would concentrate on water changes.


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## Siege (13 Sep 2018)

Mr SB is spot on. 

You had no sign of ammonia because you had no source. Now youve added fish, a source of ammonia. 
I might drink out of the toilet bowl water and not be sick. Wee in it and definetly won’t feel well! 

To rely on plants to do the filteration (which is what you are doing with new filter media) you need to be heavily planted with lots of nutrient hungry plants.

More regular water changes are needed with a dose of prime every 2 days. Seachem stability may help also.


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## dw1305 (13 Sep 2018)

Hi all,
Sorry for your loss, I have't kept them, but I think Shadow cats ("_Hyalobagrus flavus"_) are quite delicate, and these would have been imported wild caught.

Do you have a picture of the tank? It will give us a bit more idea of what the plant mass was like, and how well the plants are growing.





malawistu said:


> Ive always had near 0 nitrates in my tanks even when i had my 6ft malawi tank that was way over stocked





malawistu said:


> Im not new to keeping fish i used to breed f1/f2 Malawi and i ran a marine nano for 4 years and loads of fresh water planted tanks im still in same house the aqua safe seems to have been fine regardless of water company and my 2 lfs are about 10 min drive away and they only use tap water with such as aqua safe i even wonded if there could be anything coming oit of my rocks pebbles from my lfs or the wood but i boiled both like





malawistu said:


> And both shops only use same api master test kit same as i have


That is the thing, you almost certainly didn't have 0 ppm at that point, so there is  probably some thing wrong with the test kit. Water testing can be a <"lot more more problematic"> than the companies that sell the kits make out, and it can actually be more straight forward in salt water, mainly because you have a known amount of chloride ions etc.

Have a look at the <"Duckweed Index">, it is a technique where you use the growth and colour of a floating plant (originally Duckweed (_Lemna minor_), but I now use Amazon Frogbit (_Limnobium laevigatum_)) to give you an idea of the nutrient status of your tank. It doesn't sound like it should work as well as water testing does, but it does have a <"scientific background">, and it it really works.

cheers Darrel


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Sep 2018)

Can't say a cause for sure but can confirm shadow cats really must be in mature aquarium, low ph (4-6) certainly to start with as a black water species but can be brought up over time, often only take live food, low or no flow, certainly no co2 as even though theh likr low flow high oxygen is still required and are generally on a timer from purchase to fading away in most tanks.
I've kept them a couple of times and even in dedicated black water tanks you can lose some after import.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Aqua360 (13 Sep 2018)

Results don't lie


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## malawistu (14 Sep 2018)

For some reason i didnt get notifications for the latest replies people seem to be going for me not understanding how to set a new tank up i didnt go in to detail about how i matured my filter as its the same way as i have done it for years and never lost fish ive started two fish houses and a breeding room in the same way like this i was more leaning towards any other reasons it could be as i have faith in my method to mature a filter i may be wrong this time and also i may have some ammonia as i know the kits are not 100% but it would be really high to kill fish also tested my dads tank today just before he did his water change and it showed ammonia (large well stocked malawi tank) so seems to be working ill keep it running and feeding it see how i get on i hate losing fish thanks for all the advice guys and gals


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## alto (15 Sep 2018)

malawistu said:


> Hi there im at a total loss ive had my tank for almost two months aqua nano 40 had it running a month with no fish and a couple of plants then i added 6 shadow cat fish at 3cm and the week after planted rest of the tank up ran co2 1 bubble about every 2 seconds  and started to ad low amounts of ferts added 4 cherry shrimp 5 days after planting then all of a sudden over 2 weeks iv lost 4 cat fish and 3 shrimp  but my water pram are spot on ph is 6.6 with co2 on 50% water change every week was thinking it may have been something on the new plants was thinking of adding some Polyfilter pads but will tjis just remove my firts i dont run carbon any help would  b greatly appreciate I'm not new to fish keeping but it has been about 4 to 5 years since I've kept fish and planted tanks




As Darrel mentions, these catfish are delicate - they seem to be oxygen sensitive & don’t ship well
I’ve collected groups a few times, always losing all but 1 or 2 eventually ... the survivors seem stable for a couple years once they make it past that 2-3 month window - except I rarely see them as insufficient #’s for them to feel comfortable 
(no apparent disease/symptoms contributing to deaths)

Tank parameters - soft water (tap), pH 6ish, CO2 1bps for a 60x45x55 high tank, Eheim 250 filter, rather a jungle plant style as I’m a crap trimmer (plants grow & grow, then get heavily cut back, grow etc), driftwood for tankwide caves etc
They seem to eat frozen bloodworm, brine shrimp, daphnia well enough - with BW the clear favourite 
Coincidentally they’ve always gone in when tank has been setup for few months 

What was your plant source? - various bunch & “potted” plants that ship in from Asia can have a variety of issues ranging from just fertilizer residue or anti-snail compounds to deadly insecticides (as in all life annhilated from tanks that received a few to several plants)

As for zero ammonia, nitrites, nitrates - my tanks usually run with 0-5ppm nitrates (at least they did when I tested routinely, and now very intermittently) 

I’d add marine grade carbon for the next few weeks, before introducing any new livestock - don’t worry about effect on fertilizers


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## HiNtZ (1 Dec 2018)

malawistu said:


> For some reason i didnt get notifications for the latest replies people seem to be going for me not understanding how to set a new tank up i didnt go in to detail about how i matured my filter as its the same way as i have done it for years and never lost fish ive started two fish houses and a breeding room in the same way like this i was more leaning towards any other reasons it could be as i have faith in my method to mature a filter i may be wrong this time and also i may have some ammonia as i know the kits are not 100% but it would be really high to kill fish also tested my dads tank today just before he did his water change and it showed ammonia (large well stocked malawi tank) so seems to be working ill keep it running and feeding it see how i get on i hate losing fish thanks for all the advice guys and gals



You only get notifications when someone quotes or likes your post, or get a PM. Not sure if your can subscribe to the thread but it could get a bit annoying popping off all the time.

As for your tank - 0 nitrates after a month cycle? That doesn't sound cycled to me. There should have been at least some residual...


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