# Trying to fill in the Nitches of this hobby... (Business marketing talk)



## DutchMuch (9 Jan 2019)

Im trying to think of some... "Nitches" or holes in this hobby that have yet to be Truly filled...

So here is a list i made with the things that this hobby is really missing so far:

>Entertainment, Im aware we have george farmer, king of diy and some other guys... But lets be honest theres about 100 youtubers and 0 trust worthy articles (realistically maybe 10 and they are outdated) or news sites dedicated to this, actually i dont think there is a news site for this hobby... Like upcoming trends, etc.

>Information, Yes there's TONS Of information but i mean Documented information... Forums is 1 platform so we got that down, yea there's a bunch of sites but only so many are trust worthy- very outdated most of them..... No newsletters that i've ever heard of? (not connected to forums, i mean REAL newsletters like back in the day that send u info and advice and cool ideas not advertisements and suggestions to links) 

Sales is definitely not a void this hobby pretty much revolves around selling, and there are plenty of places to buy from in the US online at least. i know the UK has a good few, even on ebay.


hmm what else is missing?


Honestly i'd be super interested in starting a newsletter or a monthly/bi monthly email that gets sent to a recipient that shows fun stuff about the hobby, upcoming events, ideas, information, fun facts, etc. 


What do you guys think on all this?


----------



## foxfish (9 Jan 2019)

I don’t quite get it, surly the forums are there to keep us up to date.... what is missing... an electronic bubble counter and  a Co2 reactor.


----------



## Kalum (9 Jan 2019)

world has changed, now you can just use social media to get updates from the people you find 'trustworthy' and decide exactly what you do and don't want to see

same with documented information, depends where you look but for someone to go out their way to populated a website that costs money without commercial or personal gain is unlikely


----------



## PARAGUAY (9 Jan 2019)

Great thing about the internet is although there(opinions/advice)  is a lot out there forums can debate this.You can discuss with a hobbyist in the next street or on the other side of the world What you find is very good inspirational things,when your aquascaping mojo is waning take a look at YT Green Aqua or George Farmers algae on his return homeand dealing with it Thanks for sharing George. One thing does seem a shame lack of Fish clubs societys.Sign of the timessuppose


----------



## rebel (9 Jan 2019)

Since you are from the USA, think of each region in your country as a different country. There are many niches in the USA including information, entertainment etc but due to cultural differences, I don't think a one-size fits all will suit. You need multiple things to fill those individual niches.


----------



## zozo (9 Jan 2019)

rebel said:


> You need multiple things to fill those individual niches



I guess that is what it comes down to..  It's a very induvidual hobby.. Each aqaurium is one of its kind always experienced and interpreted by a soloist.

Than what is trust worthy? The whole concept evolves around theories.. Pic one that suits your experience the best..


----------



## DutchMuch (9 Jan 2019)

foxfish said:


> I don’t quite get it, surly the forums are there to keep us up to date....


Well they are- to a extent is what i mean. 

Even on US forums (which i am on every day just like ukaps and reef2reef) dont have constant updates on new products unless they are paid by the sponsor to be on here Usually or a customer of the product comes on and explains the product to the forum volunteering his/her information.
Idk if that makes exact sense...

Anyway this thread kind of strayed from what i was referring to or meant to have a discussion about lol


----------



## mort (9 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> Even on US forums (which i am on every day just like ukaps and reef2reef) dont have constant updates on new products unless they are paid by the sponsor to be on here Usually or a customer of the product comes on and explains the product to the forum volunteering his/her information.
> Idk if that makes exact sense...



The problem with that is it's still opinion based and even if it's a world renowned aquarist their opinion might not be the general consensus. I worked in the trade for a little while specialising in marines and I'm aware of many popular products that I wouldn't go near because they are poorly made, poor after sales and massively overpriced, yet they get rave reviews. There is also at least one company I know that will threaten to sue you if you defame their products. So for me information is only as good as the author and their integrity.
Product reviews aside I would happily sign up for an email or site that had recent experienced based articles on fishkeeping but this would have to have advertising to fund it and plenty of dedicated authors that were prepared to work for free. I have had a few articles published in marine magazines over the years and was once sent the entire invoice for the magazines authors, let's just say you could buy a pretty decent setup with how much it cost.


----------



## rebel (9 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> Honestly i'd be super interested in starting a newsletter or a monthly/bi monthly email that gets sent to a recipient that shows fun stuff about the hobby, upcoming events, ideas, information, fun facts, etc.


Not a bad idea but I am not sure whether anyone really reads emails anymore. People hardly read forums. Maybe try instagram or FB.


----------



## Edvet (9 Jan 2019)

( i am almost tempted to say"grow boobs and go on instagram" because that's the modern way)


----------



## DutchMuch (9 Jan 2019)

rebel said:


> Not a bad idea but I am not sure whether anyone really reads emails anymore. People hardly read forums. Maybe try instagram or FB.


i was doing heavy research on this, apparently in current age email has more outreach than twitter



which must be true on my end cause i always have my email open when im on my pc.


----------



## DutchMuch (9 Jan 2019)

mort said:


> The problem with that is it's still opinion based and even if it's a world renowned aquarist their opinion might not be the general consensus. I worked in the trade for a little while specialising in marines and I'm aware of many popular products that I wouldn't go near because they are poorly made, poor after sales and massively overpriced, yet they get rave reviews. There is also at least one company I know that will threaten to sue you if you defame their products. So for me information is only as good as the author and their integrity.
> Product reviews aside I would happily sign up for an email or site that had recent experienced based articles on fishkeeping but this would have to have advertising to fund it and plenty of dedicated authors that were prepared to work for free. I have had a few articles published in marine magazines over the years and was once sent the entire invoice for the magazines authors, let's just say you could buy a pretty decent setup with how much it cost.


did the math on a Starting price, its 30$/m for a basic acc, and for a more advanced letter it would be 120$/m


----------



## rebel (10 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> did the math on a Starting price, its 30$/m for a basic acc, and for a more advanced letter it would be 120$/m


I'd say go for it and see what happens.


----------



## DutchMuch (10 Jan 2019)

rebel said:


> I'd say go for it and see what happens.


i mean i really (personally, someone else might be able to) cant just JUMP IN a ocean of "unknown" ill research it for quite a while first.. this years projects are starting to get me Preeetty busy already (like the cabinet for the tanks you saw haha) so ill have to see if personally i *Can* even do it. But im sure with some time management and help from a few guys i know we can work something out eventually


----------



## rebel (10 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> i mean i really (personally, someone else might be able to) cant just JUMP IN a ocean of "unknown" ill research it for quite a while first.. this years projects are starting to get me Preeetty busy already (like the cabinet for the tanks you saw haha) so ill have to see if personally i *Can* even do it. But im sure with some time management and help from a few guys i know we can work something out eventually


Go for it while you got the momentum. Yep collaboration is very good also.

Most projects otherwise will lose momentum, unless there is a big amount of money at stake or it is your living.


----------



## mort (11 Jan 2019)

DutchMuch said:


> did the math on a Starting price, its 30$/m for a basic acc, and for a more advanced letter it would be 120$/m



I'm assuming that's if you do it all yourself and with the greatest of respect, you need to encourage people to read it and that will take a much larger sum. You will need people to sign up to it which will take advertising, you need people to read it and that normally takes authors they know or topics which really grab them. All that adds up to more than your initial outlay.
I'm not trying to put you off but these kind of things take a lot of effort for little reward ime.


----------



## DutchMuch (11 Jan 2019)

mort said:


> I'm assuming that's if you do it all yourself and with the greatest of respect, you need to encourage people to read it and that will take a much larger sum. You will need people to sign up to it which will take advertising, you need people to read it and that normally takes authors they know or topics which really grab them. All that adds up to more than your initial outlay.
> I'm not trying to put you off but these kind of things take a lot of effort for little reward ime.


yep


----------



## dean (1 May 2019)

The problem is people are lazy so they rely of social media for everything and if they don’t like the advice they receive they move on 
How many fish or aquascaping groups are there on FB ? Lots are hidden or private so who knows the figure ? 
There really only needs to be one per language  but no it’s all about ego 
I had a run in with a kid of 20 who has only kept fish 3 months - one tank and works in a pet shop yet he was giving out advice - totally wrong advice but he owned the group so people assumed he knew his stuff 

There was a film where it was legal to kill anyone one night a year,  Sounds like a great idea to me but I’d want one night per week just to clear idiots from fb fish groups 

The trouble is there’s no natural selection in humanity, the stupid breed with the stupid creating more stupid, the stupid also seem to breed much younger and faster to! So I fear humanity it doomed to be stupid 

I can just imagine a group sitting around the last tree and falling asleep to wake up in the morning to a burnt tree and one simply says “well I was cold” 


So got that of my chest so back to topic

I can’t see why an international dedicated group couldn’t set up a website for sharing information and the correct way to do things with a subscription fee newsletter 
There are articles being written everyday - not all are good by any means by amateur fish keepers for their own aquatic clubs and websites, you would need to seek out the respected ones and ask them to take part 
Even if people just submitted old articles there’s 100’s out there 

The problem is then resisting the urge to make money from it by taking on sponsors etc 
Some money could be made by licensing websites, magazines etc to publish articles 
% goes to the writer % goes to pay for the website % goes directly to an aquatic charity/organisation for setting up marine parks or breeding programmes - good causes 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## foxfish (1 May 2019)

Ha Ha, yes the world is changing fast, shops are old school and high streets are drying but internet is expanding far to fast.
This is a fantastic  forum compared to most... regardless  of the subject.


----------



## dean (2 May 2019)

foxfish said:


> This is a fantastic  forum compared to most... regardless  of the subject.



That’s because lazy stupid people are not on here 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rebel (2 May 2019)

Where dem lazies?

I think the subscription model (news letter) was trialled in the Barr report forum many years ago. Some things to learn from that.


----------



## Ed Wiser (2 May 2019)

I have seen people attempt this thru the years they start off gun ho then run out of steam and time.
https://aquascapinglove.com/
https://blahblahblahblah-yeah-aquascaping.tumblr.com/
https://aquascaper.org/
https://blog.aquariuminfo.org/
I could go on and on.
You have sites on the Reef hobby like:
https://reefbuilders.com/
but they are just a PR site and never honestly review stuff.

Like mort said you really have a hard to getting an honest opinion out of anyone due to the way the hobby is controlled. It is like the mob.


----------



## dw1305 (2 May 2019)

Hi all,





dean said:


> The problem is then resisting the urge to make money from it by taking on sponsors etc
> Some money could be made by licensing websites, magazines etc to publish articles % goes to the writer % goes to pay for the website % goes directly to an aquatic charity/organisation for setting up marine parks or breeding programmes - good causes





foxfish said:


> This is a fantastic forum compared to most... regardless of the subject.





Ed Wiser said:


> Like mort said you really have a hard to getting an honest opinion out of anyone due to the way the hobby is controlled.


I think you are all correct, and I don't think charging for access will work.

If you need money to keep a forum going then you have either to get the patrons to voluntarily make a contribution (like we do via the <"donate button at the bottom of the page">) or to get money from <"sponsors"> or both. I just don't think people will pay money up front. Sponsors can be a good thing, I don't think any-one is going to object to <"SwissTropicals"> or @Mick.Dk on their forums, they are definitely an asset.

For me the real advantage of forums over Facebook etc. is that they have searchable indices of past posts.  If you look at <"UKAPS"> and <"PlanetCatfish">, they are both long-lasting, well-established forums which have good quality posters on them,  but they also have owner/administrators with a huge amount of tech-savvy and active moderators.

My suspicion would be that if Julian Dignall (@Jools at PC) or Paulo @LondonDragon  were to stop doing the fantastic job they do, things would start to unravel fairly rapidly.  

cheers Darrel


----------



## DutchMuch (2 May 2019)

foxfish said:


> this is a fantastic forum compared to most... regardless of the subject.


couldn't agree more, so thankful its here


----------

