# ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (month 5)



## pariahrob (25 Mar 2012)

LIVING INDEX 

Here is where I will keep an updated list of the tank, with gear and inhabitants listed, so you don't have to trawl through the journal to see what it's all about. I'll try to add the latest photos as well.






Hardware:

DIY cabinet 60 x 30 x 70 cm (WxDxH)
ADA Cube Garden 60-P 
Fluval CO2 system with glass diffuser, J pipe and glass check valve
gUSH lily pipes
Rena XP2 filter, with some fluvial ceramic media and API ammonia pouch. Carbon removed.
Hydor in line heater 250W
Arcadia T5 luminaire (2 plant pro bulbs)

Hardscape and substrate:

ADA power sand special
ADA bacter 100
Penac P
Penac W
ADA amazonia aquasoil. About 6kG normal (type 2), with 2KG powder type on top.
Dragonstone

Flora

Hemainthus Callitrichoides
Glossostigma Elatinoides
Pogostemon Erectus
Pogostemon Helferi
Saggitarius
Alternanthera Reineckii
Eleocharis Parvula
Blyxa Japonica
Vallisneria Spiralis
echinodorus quadricostatus
Hydrocotyl tripartita

Fauna

6 Cherry shrimp
4 Rillie shrimp
6 Amano Shrimp
10 Celestial Pearl Danios
As many nerite snails as I can't find (they're like gremlins - so not good as always wet!)

Regular treatments

ADA Green Brighty Step 1
CO2 at 2bps (slightly lime drop checker)





Hi all, I'm pretty new here and although I've asked a few questions elsewhere on the boards it seems like a good time to start recording my progress with my first planted tank.

As you can see from the title I'm opting for the ADA 60P for my tank, purely based on reputation of build quality, size I can currently accommodate and clarity of glass. I like the minimalist style but don't like the costs involved quite as much!
With this in mind I'm building my own cabinet, which is pretty much done. It's very much a rip off of the Do!aqua style with the exemption of an orange door (I have a thing for grey and orange-must be the software I use at work).

Anyway thanks in advance for pointing out errors I make, or for helping me a long the way. Here's a shot of my cabinet as it is so far.



I realise the orange might be a bit too in your face as well. It will probably end up satin grey with the rest of it.


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## darren636 (25 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

i am sure we could use a how to regarding the building of the cab.   i like the orange btw.


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## pariahrob (25 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Ok, well here is a quick run down.

The frame is 40mm square finished timber, which has been treated to be water resistant. The shell is water resistant board. It's like a very fine MDF but doesn't flake or rot like the normal stuff. The board I used was 18mm. I could have got away with 12mm I think but it was helping to spread the load and I prefer to be safe.

This was made to fit my tank exactly, so is 60 x 30 cm, while being 70 cm tall, to fit the space it's going in.

I made the top and bottom first. The frame is both bonded and screwed to the board.



I should have taken more photos at various stages but basically I built the frame, with everything bonded and screwed, added the boards for sides, back and front panel. I then jumped up and down on it for a few minutes to see if it would hold up to my weight, which it did fine.

Once I knew it was strong enough, I filled the gaps and screw holes (I'd counter-sunk the screws for a smoother look) and primed. I used cheap and cheerful halfords own grey for this. Not a great paint and not really for the task but it was really only to help show up surface imperfections.



I then used a simple filler to smooth the last of the gaps before priming with rust-oleum surface primer, which is pretty good for areas that might get wet.

The finished colours are plasti-cote for the grey and rust-oleum for the orange. They are both on the satin side of gloss. I expect I could buff them and get a high gloss finish but I like it how it is.

Sorry for the brief overview. Next time I undertake anything I'll try and photograph it properly.

Cheers all!


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## pariahrob (25 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Oh yeah!

The door is made out of the same board as the cabinet and is held on by three butt hinges. Nothing fancy at all. I'll be hanging some bits and bobs on the back soon as well, otherwise I'd have used something thinner. Saying that it helped with the maths too. It sits nice and flush with the front top panel.


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## awtong (26 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

I also like the orange.  Looks a very nice finished item.

Andy


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## pariahrob (26 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Thanks Andy, I'm pretty pleased with it. I'm going to keep the orange for now and see if it distracts too much once the tank is set up.
It's easy enough to remove and re-paint.

I'm off to go rock hunting on Wednesday. I'll try a few LFSs first but may end up ordering some. I'd hunt in the wild for some but I have no idea what to look out for other than aesthetically. I'd rather not condemn my fish before I even have them!

RR


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## pariahrob (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

After some thought I've decided that the cabinet should be all grey. The orange is nice but I want the focus to be the scape not the stand.
I"ve removed the door and hinges and rubbed down and re-sprayed. The rust-oleum went straight on with out needing a re-prime which is handy.
I'll get the door on in the morning and snap a photo, then off to Acres to check out some new toys! Exciting times.


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## pariahrob (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

I'm a 3D artist and often end up constructing things virtually before I build for real. Helps me visualise what I'm doing and also makes it easier to buy the right materials in the right quantities.

I built a quick tank first to the right dimensions and then continued to build the stand. I actually ran a dynamics simulation on it to see how it would cope with lots of moving weight. It stood up to 420KG before warping. It's not 100% physically accurate but pretty close. Certainly enough for me to be confident anyway.

Here's a quick grab of my model, which I used as a moving blueprint.


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## pariahrob (29 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Hi all,

I was going to post a photo of the cabinet but I've decided to hold off til tomorrow. I've just ordered an arcadia luminaire which will arrive tomorrow and I think I'm going to build a frame to suspend it from, rather than have it sitting on the edge of the tank. I'm opting for a reasonably sturdy timber upright, with a 'U' shaped steel crossmember. I'll probably finish the timber in the same grey as the body and I'll space the uprights using some rubber washers, similar to tap washers.

I'll update tomorrow or Saturday, hopefully once I can source an arcadia suspension kit locally.

This is the bad boy I have on it's way.


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## pariahrob (29 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Ooh, I did get a delivery today though. I took a risk and bought some glassware from Honk Kong. Under a fiver for both of these. Seem like pretty good quality too.



Excuse the Lurcher hair!


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## pariahrob (30 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

That's such a shoddy photo I thought I'd update it and start taking some half decent pictures from now on. Just picked up a pair of planting tongs too. These fluvial ones which feel great.


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## danielgphelps (30 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Those are beautiful.  Do you have a link for where you purchased them you could share?


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## Ady34 (30 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Hi,
really nice photos and presentation.... better without the Lurcher hair!   
Looking forward to seeing this journal come together, its nice to see the effort folk will go to and your cabinet looks excellent.   
Think if your looking for any more planting tongs and pinsettes, George Farmer had a batch for sale recently in a 'garage clearout' in the for sale section, there were some fluval ones in there too!
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Ady34 (30 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Think if your looking for any more planting tongs and pinsettes, George Farmer had a batch for sale recently in a 'garage clearout' in the for sale section, there were some fluval ones in there too!



scratch that, they dont appear to be there anymore..... you may not have wanted any more anyway!


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## pariahrob (31 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Thanks. It seemed a shame to post shoddy photos when I have decent gear. Just being lazy with my phone. 

I'm pretty pleased with my cabinet so far. Tomorrow I intend to sort out the frame to hang the luminaire from. Fingers crossed!

That's a shame. I'm on the lookout for tools but I'm sure I'll find what I need. 

I'll dig up the links for the glassware but it was an eBay store. Great service and price too. 

Cheers!


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## pariahrob (31 Mar 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Today was fairly productive. I built the supports for my luminaire. Two uprights attached to the cabinet with rubber spacers, so they don't touch the glass (and it leaves room for a background). Topped by two stainless steel brackets from which the suspension kit us hung.

I took a trip to Acres Supplies and the guys there sorted me out with the wires and connectors from Arcadia. Helpful as always. Only downside is that they've sold the paludarium with the tree frogs, which I always enjoyed seeing. I'm sure something new will be along soon. There is talk of something with a rain system!

Anyway, the Arcadia suspension attached:


Nice gear and looks pretty neat and tidy.

The whole lot was then set up and hung from the supports, which I sprayed the same silk grey as the cabinet. I've not clipped the suspension wires yet. I'll wait until the tank is there and I've decided on plants, so I can set it to the right height before trimming.
The cable from the OT5 is just held by zip ties for now but will go in trunking on the rear of the uprights tomorrow.



Which is all good news as it means I can get on to the fun stuff now. On Monday I shall be placing a fairly hefty order with TGM. Think this will make a good start:

ADA 60-P
A load of amazonia with some fine to finish (it's a small tank, so will help with the scale).
Nutrients and ferts.
I'm probably going to go for Manten stone but have no idea how much I need. I'll probably over-order which will give me more choice for my scape.
Power sand to help my scape get off to a good start.
Some scissors, as I'm going for some HC or maybe glosso and I'll be needing to do some trimming.

Then I'll be back to Acres to pick up a Rena XP2 and some clear pipes. I have already ordered some lily pipes.
In line heater and a few other bits and bobs.

I'm not buying any plants yet, as I want to get my scape just right first and I can see myself adjusting for a while before I'm happy, unless it just falls into place.

Let the fun begin!


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## pariahrob (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Well, my tank and substrate plus a whole bunch of other bits and bobs are ordered and will be delivered on Wednesday but in my excitement I decided to stop by Acres and pick up a couple of other bits.

I've gone for the API master test kit and a bottle of stress coat.



I'm going to be adding a CO2 kit as well and I'll start adding liquid ferts too but I need more research first.

Two More Sleeps!


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## greenink (3 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank*

Blimey. Looking nicely set up. Some quick thoughts:

- the light supports going behind the tank means you'll always need a solid background to the tank; Mark Evans and lots of others have the light supports at the side so you can see clear through the back. That allows you to have a more frosted background or even none. And it means you can 'under-light' the background to get the 'sunrise' effect, as you have greater flexibility about how close the background is. Maybe worth considering. 

- manten stone hugely expensive for what it is; pop down your local quarry and it's 1/10th of the price for something similar

- I'd get some easy carbo too, just to nuke any algae that starts

- you're going to want to raise and lower the light (if you're a tinkerer as almost all fish people are!) so I'd be nervous about clipping the wires too much

- lots of people are very sceptical about test kits - see ceg's post on these. Might want to read before you open any bottles!

- what's your fert dosing going to be? Like lots of people I came round to EI eventually and wish I'd done it earlier - much easier than it looks, especially if you get a few big syringes (eg 20/50ml)

- very small fish make tanks look a lot bigger; cherry shrimp take a couple of months to sexually mature so get them in early if you want them to breed enough to sort detritus without shelling out loads. A clean up crew is the best way to start, but ottos are quite sensitive to ammonia so not great until the Amazonia has leached out its toxins

- with aquasoil you do really need to cycle as will leach ammonia

- CO2 is MUCH cheaper if you use beer gas or a fire extinguisher. Regs and solenoids are also much cheaper from HK than anywhere else and work fine. 

- work out a really easy way of changing 50% of the water!


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## pariahrob (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Thanks Mike.  Good read and lots to think about.

My original plan was to have the lights suspended from the sides as suggested but the space whee the whole setup is going didn't quite allow for it, so I'll have to make do. I've been debating which background too; black, white, or frosted. I already ordered some frosted but if that looks bad then it makes my choice that bit easier! I would like to try our some backlighting though.

So true! I actually changed my mind and went for dragonstone but refused to pay the ADA prices for it. I found somewhere up near Liverpool that sells it for about a quarter of the price, so have 20KGs on the way. I'm not sure if that is too little or too much but I can always get more, or donate some to a worthy cause.

Easy cargo. On it. Thanks for the tip. Would that be in addition to a CO2 setup? I'm ordering a FE system but will gladly get some easycarbo too if it's needed.

I've been wondering about the light height too. I am a bit of a tinkerer, so I might just change it so the excess is up top. WIll look a little neater.

As for my frets I don't know yet. I like to DIY if I can but I've read a few threads, including the one suggested and I'm not quite sure I fully get it. I'll keep going though and see where it leads.

As for test kits, I've read a few things about them too. I think I will start out using them. If I start with my naked tap water and do regular tests then surely that will give me an approximate baseline to work on? As an indicator at least?

I'll be fish less for a good few weeks, to let the tank cycle, then I'll get the cleanup crew in and fish to taste. Undecided what I'll go for yet. I do like some of the tetras and they suit scopes well but not sure what kind.

I also have a contact who can get me top grade CRS at very good prices, so once I'm up and running and have a better idea of things I'll probably go down that road, as they look so good against the green.

Thanks again for all your advice. Lots to get to grips with!

This time tomorrow I'll have pretty much all I need except flora and fauna.

On that note is there any benefit or helm to be had/done from setting up my scape plant less for a few days? Just thinking it might help me while I get my layout sorted and so on.


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## Ady34 (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Hi there,


			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> As for my frets I don't know yet. I like to DIY if I can but I've read a few threads, including the one suggested and I'm not quite sure I fully get it. I'll keep going though and see where it leads.


Check out some of the sponsor sites such as aquarium plant food uk, theyll pre mix your macro and micro EI salts for you so no need for measuring individual elements, then just add water and dose accordingly. Basically EI is just adding ferts in excess so as to ensure enough of the vital traces for healthy plant growth, thus eliminating the worry of underdosing your tank.   Im going to move onto this in a few weeks when my TPN+ runs out.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## pariahrob (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Excellent, thanks! I shall go and have a look right now.


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## greenink (3 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank*

Easy carbo has an algaecide ingredient, which is why it's useful in addition to CO2 injection. It's a short term fix but sometimes useful. 

Agree on aquarium plant food - that's where I get mine and it's a LOT cheaper and actually simple once you get the hang of it. sure someone here would do the calculations for the mix for you, if that makes things easier. 

CRS are hugely ammonia sensitive so worth waiting a while. Maybe start with some standard cherries which are less inbred and so more tolerant. 

I'm no scientist but people on here say test kits (unless laboratory grade) are actually so inaccurate as to be useless. There are various threads on this. You can get a tapwater report from your suppliers website, but your water will vary a lot week by week. It doesn't matter that much unless you're doing discuss or something very sensitive. 

One thing you haven't mentioned is dechlorinator (prime is the cheapest) if you're using tap water. Goes in with every water change. And some people swear by Purigen in the filter to polish the water so it's crystal clear, seeing as you've got an opti white tank. I use it but can't say it's made a huge difference. 

Running plant less won't do any harm certainly. Will help the soil leach some ammonia too, and you'll get a lot of dust from the Amazonia so worth doing a few water changes too. A bit of bubble wrap if y have any left from your deliveries makes a good buffer for putting water in to the tank. 

With CO2, I'd run the tank without fish and excessively high levels of CO2 (yellow drop checker) for a while to get a sense of what plants need. Then cut it back when you've got good growth, then add fish. I'm trying this on my smaller tank. 

In general, would read as many of ceg's posts on this forum as possible before you get going! Hope it goes better than my first tank... Good luck!


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## pariahrob (4 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Got a nice early deliver from TGM this morning. Cube Garden 60-P, frosted backing and tank matting. Also Amazonia, both normal and powder, along with some additives.




Another box appeared from Aqua Essentials, with some tools and de-chlorinator.

Then a third box turned up with my dragonstone. All in all a good day.

I spent some time washing the stone and sorting it into sizes. Biggest piece is about 25cm tall. The smallest is about 2cm (I got a good couple of handfuls of the small bits to transition to the congo sand)



All in all a good day. Just waiting for my inline heater, a few bits of glassware (lily pipes have already taken over two weeks to arrive!) and CO2 system. I'm not going to buy any plants til I have everything.

This evening I'll be trying out a few layouts with the stone. I'll try to take a few photos and get some feedback from you guys.

I realise that so far this thread has been more of a shopping list with a touch of DIY but from now on it should hopefully be a little more interesting.

RR


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

dragon stone looks good, can i ask where in liverpool you bought it from?

Looking forward to the layouts mate.


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## pariahrob (6 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

I got it from andys aquatics. Nice looking stone but needed a lot of cleaning. 
I've done a few layouts dry but undecided as of yet. I've been a bit sidetracked by decorating the bathroom though. 
Hoping to get it all up and running tomorrow. 

I'll get some pictures up soon.


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## Wallace (7 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Cabinet is looking good, I've just built my own 'ADA style' cabinet for my 60cm tank. I decided not to build it around a frame, I figured the 18mm MDF would be plenty strong enough on it own. So far it been perfect, although the tank has only been in situ for 24 hours.


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## pariahrob (7 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Thanks. I decided to go for the frame and board, just for peace of mind.

Had some fun yesterday, trying some layouts and eventually decided on one I like. Here's a little rough follow along:




Please excuse the faults with the video.

I've also planted a load load of  glosso. I didn't take any photos yet but I'll get one tomorrow. What a task. Took long enough just separating the plants and spraying them to keep them moist. Spent a good afternoon with the tweezers getting them in situ. What a job!

My CO2 system is coming on Tuesday, so that will be added then and I'm still reading up on EI but for now I'll stick with Green Brighty Stage 1, til I'm happy I understand things properly.

Next up is some Pogostomen helferi for around the rocks and something taller for the fairground. I'm thinking of pennywort, as I like the canopy effect you can get with them.

Only downside was a slight problem with the filter. I noticed the water level in the tank was dropping slowly. I think it was caused by air in the filter from the easy lock tap thingy on the XP2. I pulled it all apart, cleared up and it's been fine since.

RR


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## pariahrob (8 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Quick question. I have a fair bit of substrate floating around on tiny bubbles. Will this settle or do I need to do something?
I'm also wondering how to either direct the flow from my filter better, or how to reduce it, as it seems very strong and the glosso is being pulled up in places. 

Any advice is welcome!

Cheers


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## Mark Evans (8 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Quick question. I have a fair bit of substrate floating around on tiny bubbles. Will this settle or do I need to do something?



Net them out. I always spend some time taking the surface scum off with a plastic container or something similar.


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## pariahrob (8 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Thanks Mark, I'll do that now.


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## pariahrob (9 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Here's a quick look at at some nice glassware. A bubble counter/diffuser and a J shaped connector, both from tanks cape.co.uk and both look to be very well made.



Here's a section of my scape with the gloss after two days. Still worried that the flow might be too strong as another couple of plant lets were in the filter intake this morning.

Or have  I planted them in too small? The guy in the shop recommended doing it like this and then trimming down after a week or so but on the TGM site it says to plant in eighth of a plant bundles.

What do you think?

CO2 arrives tomorrow as well, which I'm hoping will help speed up the settling in process. My lily pipes should be here soon too, which will mean the tank will look nicer but also will be the gear I'll be using long term, so hoping I can get the flow how it should be.


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## greenink (9 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank*

Some always come out... but from this pick looks like your glosso is v long - maybe worth trimming hard otherwise won't grow along the substrate. Have another look at James 60P journal for what to do.

(also seeing as your photos are top notch, can we have higher resolution!)


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## pariahrob (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Aha, thanks. I'll have a good trimming session this evening then and see if that helps. I'll be getting the rest of my plants over the next few days too. I wonder if denser planting will help diffuse the flow a bit.

I shoot my photos on a DSLR and they are over 5k wide, so I tend to reduce them down to 1280 wide (I work with a lot of video and its become habit for online).

If I shoot any I am particularly happy with I'll be sure to keep a hi-res version to post as well.

Cheers


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## pariahrob (11 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Woke up this morning to find that the flow from my filter has shifted the amazonia somewhat and created some ridges. This led to some gloss being set free. SOme is melting too but funnily the gloss doing best seams to be the most sheltered from the light.

I'm going to do a water change in a minute and see if I can find a way of diffusing the flow near the bottom of the tank to reduce this problem. I also had my bright step 1 arrive today, so will start daily dosing. I stupidly ordered two in a fit of over-enthusiastic spending so PM me if you want one and I'll sell the spare on at a discount.

In other news the CO2 still hasn't arrived, so fingers crossed for a delivery tomorrow (as well as my lily pipes).

I post more pictures when this gets sorted a bit and the scape settles.


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## pariahrob (12 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

CO2 is here and installed. I managed to break my lovely glass diffuser though. Clumsily pushing the suction cup on and snapped the neck. I'll order a new one but for now it has the nasty black plastic one on.

I also added another large piece of dragon rock and removed the congo sand. It just wasn't doing it for me.

I'll let it clear up and then grab some pictures.


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

New diffuser ordered. Plastic one in place for now:




The largest rock on the left is the addition. I removed most of the congo sand and am going for more of a complete carpet. The remaining congo I'll remove as I plant that area. The drop checker is showing solid blue as I just refilled. It was a good green though, so happy with that.




I'm currently adding 1bpm starting as I leave for work (until I get a solenoid) which varies between 2 and 3 hours before the lights come on late morning. My lights are hanging 16" above the water for now. I'm adding the recommended dose of ADA Green Brighty step 1 for now and will follow the course until I get my head round the whole EI thing.

I'm off to the lfs in a minute to pick up some plants. Delivery is due about now, so hoping for some good picks. 

Fingers crossed!


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Wow, just looked at that picture again. What a bad shot! Wonky and bad colour balance. I'll take a decent one later!


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank*

Popped over to my LFS and picked up a small selection of plants.

First up was some Eleocharis Parvula to help frame the dragonstone at the rear. I'm not a fan of hair grass reaching the surface but I think it does help the red of my stone pop a bit, so will just trim regularly.




Then I got something which I cannot remember the name of, except it has 'crown' in the name. It looks a bit like pygmy chain sword with slightly broader leaves. If you can identify please let me know what it's called. I kew I should have written it down.




Even though it is still quite sparse it's great to see some green in the tank. I'm off to collect my pogo tomorrow and investigate some other carpeting plants. 


Or should I persevere with the glosso? I might hack it back a little in the hope that my new CO2 system will perk it up.


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

looks like blyxa japonica....  thats a lucky find in an LFS!


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## greenink (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

The glosso will be quite a good indicator of whether you've got your CO2 right (as would a pot of HC). I had mine too low for about a year! Would really advise cranking CO2 up to near lethal levels and then bringing it down if needed - is working great in my little tank at the moment. But then I have gassed my fish twice in the past...


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I think it might well be blyxa comparing to google image search. You have a good eye!

Thanks Mike. I have no fauna as yet, so I can certainly try that. I'll give it a go.


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## Iain Sutherland (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Be sure to bring the co2 up fairly slowly then slowly back it down when you want fauna. Too quick and BBA will bite you in the behind!


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thanks for the warning. I'll be sure I'm gentle and patient!


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Right question time.

I have the check valve seen earlier in this journal and just realised it isn't in my CO2 line.

My question is how do I know which way round it should go or can it go either way? Maybe a stupid question but I'd rather be sure!


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## Wallace (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Right question time.
> 
> I have the check valve seen earlier in this journal and just realised it isn't in my CO2 line.
> 
> My question is how do I know which way round it should go or can it go either way? Maybe a stupid question but I'd rather be sure!



I can't tell from the pic, but you could try blowing through it. You will only be able to blow through one end, that'll let you know which way the gas will flow through it ( and hopefully the way the water won't )


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## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Why didn't I think of that? Thanks so much!


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## Wallace (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Glad I could help


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## Antipofish (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thats definitely Blyxa.  I had a load in my tank and sold it off  Lovely plant and wish I still had it.  Sold about 30 plantlets for a tenner, which is annoying as I see that 5 go for £4 apparently.  Aquadream (Georgie) had some for sale from his tank, but I was worried about the transport from the continent so I didn't buy it.  Wish to heck I had cos it looked fantastically health.  You got some nice plants there though.  Can I ask what you paid for them ?  I think I may have to get P@H to order some in for me, if their courier can manage not to lose the plants this week !


----------



## pariahrob (13 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Apart from the straggly looking glosso (which I need to hack back) I paid a tenner for all the plants you see. There was another blyxa as well but it wasn't in a good way once I'd unwrapped it.


----------



## Antipofish (14 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Apart from the straggly looking glosso (which I need to hack back) I paid a tenner for all the plants you see. There was another blyxa as well but it wasn't in a good way once I'd unwrapped it.



Bargain !


----------



## pariahrob (14 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Been shopping again today. First up some nice and healthy looking Cuba



Followed by some nice looking Pogostemon Helferi, which I've been hunting for. Turns out Dobbies had it in yesterday, so grabbed it.



The pogo was pretty straight forward to break up and plant but I took a little more care with the HC, as my attempt to set up a carpet with gloss failed (mostly due to my inexperience and lack of CO2 I think. Split like so, big enough to plant easily and stay put but small enough to kick start a nice carpet. I could only find the two pots, so will have to order some more online.



My plan is to have a nice carpeted central valley which will transition up the slopes and round the rocks into something more varied and with some height. I'm going for a balance of visual appeal and something that my fish can enjoy with some variation and places to hide and so on. 



My next task (other than to bin the nasty pipes and to clean up the background) is find a focus plant. The point between the two back most large stones is pulling the eye really well now and that space is crying out for something interesting. I have no idea what to put there and I'm open to suggestions but please post a photo, as I'm still learning the names of everything.

For now, here are a few photos of areas as they stand today:


----------



## greenink (14 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Looks great. CO2 highs a must with HC! Is very unforgiving. What about rotala or pogostemon stellata? Both easily googled and colour nicely.


----------



## pariahrob (14 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I've got a drop checker reading a slightly below green at the moment, moving it round every few hours in case there are any dead flow spots.
That Stellata is very nice. That would give some nice height and colour to the back. Thanks!


----------



## greenink (14 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Would get it borderline yellow - dark green not enough for HC


----------



## pariahrob (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

DC now showing on the yellow side of green (thanks Mike) and a second day of near constant pearling. I also found a tiny snail that managed to appear from nowhere but can't see any others so hope he is alone.

Still no signs of any algae yet but having a good look every day. The new plants are all looking good and I spotted some of the older glosso which I thought was dead sprung some leaves and started pearling today. Nice surprise.

I have another question. I hadn't really paid too much attention to the temperature of my tank, as i'm still undecided on what fauna I will introduce. DOes this matter or am I better off by establishing that now? I'm using an inline Hydor filter to reduce gear in the tank and it is all installed and ready to go. Just unsure if I should start that off yet.

I used my test kit again to check everything (I know some people don't rate them but it helps me learn what things are and what the relationships are). I'm still showing high ammonia and nitrites. My guess is this is down to the amazonia and the fact that the filter is still establishing itself. I had added some API quick start, along with the ADA bacter which I thought would help bring the ammonia down. Any ideas?

The guy in my LFS has told me that I should start introducing livestock over the next couple of weeks but I would rather not if this is going to cause any harm. Is he looking for a quick few sales or what?


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> DC now showing on the yellow side of green (thanks Mike) and a second day of near constant pearling. I also found a tiny snail that managed to appear from nowhere but can't see any others so hope he is alone.
> 
> Still no signs of any algae yet but having a good look every day. The new plants are all looking good and I spotted some of the older glosso which I thought was dead sprung some leaves and started pearling today. Nice surprise.
> 
> ...



Hi so now things seem to be looking good, can you tell us what your tank stats are now ?? CO2 time, light time, light intensity, ferts regime and any liquid carbon ?  Cheers.


----------



## pariahrob (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Ok, so this is an ADA 60-P which I think is 70L?

CO2 on at 8:00am
Lights on at 11:00am

CO2 off at 7:00pm
Lights off at 8:00pm

I'm adding ADA green bright step 1 every morning. I had been doing a 30% water change each day but I've been told to stop that now and do a 50% weekly change instead. (This was by the same guy at my LFS).

Levels as of today are:

PH is 7 and has been since the start.
NO3 is at 5ppm
NH3 is now at 3ppm was 4 a week ago.
NO2 is 0.25

My CO2 is now at just under 2bpm but not sure that is so relevant, as surely that is dependant on pressure in canister, diameter of tubing and other things. I've been using that more as a baseline to control what my drop checker is showing.
I've placed the diffuser so it outputs right into the flow of my spray bar and then gets pushed round the tank.

I realise I'm only in to week two here and is very early days but prevention has to be better than cure, so I'm trying to learn all I can and keep things on an even keel.


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Learning early and hitting the ground running is good   I think you mean bps not bpm lol.  But you are right, its meaningless.  2bps in 70L compared to 2bps in 300L is a big difference   Your lighting seems to be on a LONG time mate.


----------



## pariahrob (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

lol, yeah. Quite right. BPS!

Really? What would you recommend as a better length of time for lights on? Do you think the relationship between lights and CO2 I have is ok? Should I reduce both together?

Cheers


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Your lighting period is 9 hours mate.  That is A LOT OF LIGHT !  Mine was 7 hours and I have just reduced it back to 6.  Light is the driving force of plant growth, BUT the more light they get the more CO2 and ferts they need.  You are trying to get the CO2 levels optimal at the moment but I personally think your light period is too long.  You do have HC and from most of what I have read on here it appreciates good high lighting but that means intensity not duration.  If it was mine I would be looking to get the CO2 rate such that the DC was green to lime green by lights on and then have it go off an hour before lights out, which I would have as a 6, max 7 hour period.  My tank is a larger volume so I have two options, either increase the length of time the CO2 is on for before lights on (we are aiming to have a good usable level of CO2 saturation for when the lights come on and start stimulating plant growth as you know) OR increase the injection rate.  Today, for the first time, I achieved that lime green but by the end of the photoperiod the fish were looking a bit peed off.  Not gasping or stressed but a bit moochy.  I therefore think that its better to have it on a bit longer to start with at a lower rate, and maybe go off two hours before instead of one.  That way the plants get what they want but I will reach a balance of CO2 saturation and happy fish.

Hope that helps.  But don't change it on my word. I am just repeating what people have told me.  Lights on too long causes problems.  Get the balance right on a shorter lighting period, then if you want to up the lights you can up the CO2 and ferts accordingly


----------



## pariahrob (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Ok, after reading that I think I will try shortening the lights on period. I think the intensity should be ok. I'll keep the CO2 going as is in the morning but turn it off an hour early as well. Thanks. Even if it doesn't work out for me it's still worth a try, otherwise I'll never fully get to grips with how things work together.

In other news I just spotted this little patch of hairy looking stuff. I'll post in the algae section as well but is that what this is? I had a very good hunt over the tank and there is no sign of it anywhere else. Just this one spot, which is front right. Might also be the least flow in this spot as well.



Easycarbo to jump on it quick? I don't have any but will order some if it's worth it.

Cheers all!


----------



## darren636 (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

looks bacterial.... Scoop it out if you can. Maybe fish will eat it- some do.


----------



## pariahrob (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I yanked it out. Seemed to be well trenched in. Pulled a good inch of it up which was a shock. 

My ammonia is still a bit high, otherwise I'd be looking to get something in the tank to help with the clean up. Maybe this was a one off and I'll be ok. Fingers crossed!


----------



## darren636 (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

at this stage it is best to remove anything you Dont like the look of- when fish are introduced they can be effective at keeping a clean tank, depending on which fish you have of course! Mine wont touch algae.


----------



## pariahrob (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Day 12

Time for more plants! Partly due to the fact I wanted more and with more variation but also to try and combat algae. If the plants are taking the ferts then there is less for algae.

So a trip to acres supplies and I cam back with a small collection plus some different bio media for my filter, which I think is under filled. Plus having a selection of materials and shapes sizes must be a good thing surely?

Plant today are:

1. Another couple of Blyxa Japonica. 
2. Twisted Vallisneria
3. Alternanthera reineckii 'Pink' as a nice focus plant my rocks are pointing at
4. Echinodorus tenellus

There is a 5th new plant which you can see just to right of centre behind the large stone. I don't know what it is and the guy at the shop didn't but it is quite nice. It has almost mirror like surface on the bottom of the leaves. I've had a good look through the tropic plants but can't identify it. Any ideas?



This is how the tank is looking as of now. Lily pipes should be here and installed very soon which is quite exciting. I'm feeling good about the progress so far. I think I have managed to strike a balance between the asymmetry of Iwagumi, which I love but with the variety and depth which I hope is healthier for the tank and the fish when I get them.

Excuse the blotchy background. I really must get round to removing and re-applying it. Ignore the fact that my diffuser is almost directly below the DC too. I just moved it while planting to get it out of my way.

For now here are a couple of close ups. Click through to hires if you're interested.






Cheers

RR


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Very nice looking set up, just checking though that your DC isn't always in that position? It appears from one of the photos to be right over the top of your diffuser.


----------



## Ady34 (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> There is a 5th new plant which you can see just to right of centre behind the large stone. I don't know what it is and the guy at the shop didn't but it is quite nice.


Hi the plant looks like some kind of hygrophila to me, a note on that, id maybe swap that plant for the red 'Ludwigia'? at the far left so as to keep the eye drawn to your red focal point rather than making the eye switch left to right.... only a thought. If you keep them both trimmed nicely it should work well   .


			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I cam back with a small collection plus some different bio media for my filter, which I think is under filled.


One thing to consider adding more media to your filter is reduced flow, many folk run less to give maximum filter performance, especially in heavily planted tanks where the plants are acting like an in tank filter already.   
Really liking the scape, and like the additional plants too. The vallis and tenellus compliment the blyxa and hairgrass and add a different variation of colour and texture to the existing 'grasses' which is nice.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## pariahrob (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thanks Ady,

I think you're right about hygrophila. Looks like a match! I think you might be right about the swap too. My wife suggested adding some more red to the centre.
I'll wait for now and see if anything needs moving once the lily pipes are in.

Cheers!


----------



## pariahrob (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Oooh, I just checked the tracking info and my lily pipes are out for delivery. Exciting! I hate seeing all that grey plastic in my tank.
I'll post photos later. Should make a big difference. 

I dosed my ferts and turned on the CO2 this morning before leaving for the office and spotted another couple of snails too. Only tiny little ones. Is this a good sign or bad? I've seen people ranting about them being a nuisance, as well as loving their clean up abilities.


----------



## Ady34 (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Hi,
i spotted one snail in my tank initially..... now i have hundreds. If you dont like them or are unsure, nows the time to act, while you still can. I dont mind mine, but not sure whos responsible for nibbling some of my plants, the snails, the shrimp or the fish?
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Oooh, I just checked the tracking info and my lily pipes are out for delivery. Exciting! I hate seeing all that grey plastic in my tank.
> I'll post photos later. Should make a big difference.
> 
> I dosed my ferts and turned on the CO2 this morning before leaving for the office and spotted another couple of snails too. Only tiny little ones. Is this a good sign or bad? I've seen people ranting about them being a nuisance, as well as loving their clean up abilities.



Dwarf chain loach are great at eating snails and the only loach that would remain small enough for your tank, though you would have to love them cos you should get a minimum of 5 and at a tenner each thats not cheap !  Alternatively assassin snails will eat all snails smaller than themselves     If they are red ramshorns though, its not much to worry about.


----------



## pariahrob (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I can see 3 or 4 at the moment. I'm not bothered right now but if they start munching my plants I might have to take action.

Just got back from the office and my parcel is here. I ordered gUSH oBubble and the matching 17mm intake. Ordered from Aquarium Plant Food UK and great service. I cancelled the order for the flo pipes from HK, as it took too long. Same gear but excellent service and fast delivery. That's what I like.

Here's the oBubble. Seems very well made, with the hose end being circular unlike the ovals I have seen on others. The intake slots are very well formed, very even and no burr.

Here's the bubble:



I have some work to do but later on I'll be taking everything apart to fit these bad boys. I've read that heating the hose and using some kind of lubricant is a good idea. What's best? Olive oil maybe?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Tank is looking good, will be nice to see it progress.
The lily's should be a snug fit without too much bother, are you aware this 'poppy' style lily is for low flow tanks? As the bulb catches the flow which effectively spills out.

Gush products are good looking bit of kit though


----------



## pariahrob (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thanks, I'm pretty pleased with progress so far. 

As for the poppy style, yes and I was hoping for a slightly gentler flow, as the standard spray bar was way to strong. I've actually just set things up with the new glass. I'll get my photos uploaded and post in a minute. Flow is looking about right to my untrained eye!


----------



## pariahrob (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Out with the old grey plastic at last! In with the lovely new glassware. 

The oBubble is beautifully made. Really nice and as mentioned above I've got the flow just right. Good circulation around the tank but not quite strong enough to rip anything up or swirl the amazonia. I think this is down to the height I've set it at. A little higher and the water splashes in and down, not good. A little lower and it just kind of sloshes in without doing much.



Here's a FTS. So much better now. The intake is almost invisible and the poppy is just nicely crafted and not intrusive. I like the fact that there is now a gentle sound of water (although my mrs might end up using the loo more) and I think the surface is being nicely agitated. At least there is no visible film now.



Tomorrow my plants should arrive from TGM. I'll fill in the larger gaps in the HC which will be nice. I think the clumps I planted before where just a touch too big.
I did notice that quite a lot of the glosso I planted early on has some new shoots and fresh really green leaves. Unfortunately I hadn't hacked them back enough, so some are gone now, after a good shearing.

All in all I'm more than happy. Just need to sort a better background. I like the frost and it looked ok with some extra white behind but the stripy wall adds a nasty colour cast which I don't like. Maybe time to decorate!


----------



## Antipofish (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Its a lovely looking bit of kit mate.  I am probably wrong, but shouldnt the bulb be fully submersed?


----------



## pariahrob (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Quite possibly but the level I have it at looks like it gives the right flow for my setup. I might try raising and lowering it a few times over the next few weeks to see if it has any effect.


----------



## Antipofish (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Quite possibly but the level I have it at looks like it gives the right flow for my setup. I might try raising and lowering it a few times over the next few weeks to see if it has any effect.



As I recall, the idea is that submerged, it deflects the flow to create surface movement predominantly.  As long as it gets the CO2 to where it needs to be it could hang from the ceiling     Its a tasty looking bit of kit though.


----------



## pariahrob (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

No plant delivery today but spoke to TGM and they should be here tomorrow, in which case I'll be doing some planting and a little photo shoot for the end of week 2.

All looking good. My couple of snails have turned into four. It's almost an invasion!

Time to start planning my fauna now. My current thinking is to keep everything small, as it's it's only a 60cm. I'm wuite taken with the idea of having either black and white or red and white. Simple but will both stand out nicely.

The mrs wants starlight plecos but I'm not sure about the size of those.
Other options I've considered are zebra danios, some mollies I've seen with polka dots and another that I was recommended by the guys at my LFS.  I really need to get into the habit of writing things down.

I'd like some shrimp too. If I go for the black and white theme it'll be bee shrimp or amanos.

I've seen photos of some beautiful sulawesi shrimp that look more like saltwater shrimp. Really vibrant red and white. I can't find much info on them though, so no idea if they are available anywhere, or even suitable!

I'm open to suggestions. I might ignore them but I'm more than happy to hear ideas. As a newbie I'll easily miss things, so fire away!


----------



## Antipofish (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Every time I ever had mollies they ate plants !!!  If you want a black and white theme, I could just imagine some black neon tetras and some white skirt tetras


----------



## taggerz28 (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

How about some Crystal Red Shrimp?


----------



## pariahrob (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Black neons would be a good choice. Small but vibrant.

CRS is high on my list if I go down the red and white road but I want to be sure the tank is spot on and stable. I hear they are less than hardy! Cherries might be a safer option but not as pleasing on the eye.


----------



## awtong (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Starlight Ancistrus will get to around 15cm.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thanks Andy, good to know. Way to big for this. 

What is a good pleco for a small tank?


----------



## awtong (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

How many litres is a 60p?


----------



## pariahrob (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

55 litres I think.


----------



## awtong (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I would say it is probably too small for any plecs really.  Pitbull's are probably one of the smallest and they get to about 6cm.  Probably wouldn't settle and cause problems with that cracking scape you are working on   .

I have 7 plecs (I am a bit obsessed) but then I have 450l to play with.  Just added some pics to my journal!


----------



## pariahrob (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I'll keep that in mind. A 450L would be awesome. I'm already thinking about how I can redesign the house to get something bigger in for the next tank.

I think the dining room might have to go. We almost always eat in the living room anyway!

Like what I'm doing so far then? I'm feeling pretty positive about it. I have some more plants coming tomorrow and my lfs gets their delivery on a friday afternoon. I'll be heading over to see what they have.


----------



## Ady34 (19 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Black phantom tetras or red phantom tetras would look nice mid water flaring at one another.
Bloodfins are another subtle choice, as too would be checker barbs or pentazona barbs.
Tetras are more likely to show off though, the barbs may be a little shy for a while.
Espei rasbora would shoal nicely too..... the list is endless!


----------



## sarahtermite (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> I would say it is probably too small for any plecs really.  Pitbull's are probably one of the smallest and they get to about 6cm.  Probably wouldn't settle and cause problems with that cracking scape you are working on



For what it's worth, I have a couple of pitbull plecs in my 2ft tank (so about 70 litres?) and I think they're brilliant! They're fantastic at clearing algae, esp off my wood - it's sparkling clean! My only worry is making sure they have enough food - they don't seem interested in courgette, cucumber, peas or any of the algae wafers I've tried so far. They still look plump and happy, but I think I'll probably start growing some algae on cobbles elsewhere to swap into the tank. for them. But honestly, they're great fish, and only took them a couple of days to settle down.

Gorgeous tank btw - you must be pleased!


----------



## pariahrob (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Thanks Sarah,
It's good to hear a different perspective. My tank is 2ft as well. Maybe my maths is out and it will be ok for plecs then?
It's been a while since I worked out volume. 60 x 30 x 36 cm = (I don't have the brains for it).

Cheers! I am so pleased so far. A few planting gaps to fill in but otherwise over the moon with it. It's still early days but I'm loving what I have so far.

Here's a photo I just took. No tank lights on here, just a little sunrise lamp I thought I'd try out. Excuse the reflections. I think I might swap out the tropical pro lamp in my luminaire for another plant pro. I'm not keen on the pink tint. Comparing this shot, lit by a plain old tungsten to some of the others really shows it up. I could photoshop it to remove the red hues but it's the same in the flesh.


----------



## sarahtermite (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks Sarah,
> It's good to hear a different perspective. My tank is 2ft as well. Maybe my maths is out and it will be ok for plecs then?
> It's been a while since I worked out volume. 60 x 30 x 36 cm = (I don't have the brains for it).



I have _never_ been able to work out tank volumes    - I always use online calculators!   My tank's a bit taller than yours. I think. Anyhow, these pitbull plecs are small - max 5-6cm. From their latin name, _Paraotocinclus jumbo_, I'd guess they're related to _Otocinclus_. My impression is that they're a lot more efficient at algae removal than Otos, but my experience is limited! For what it's worth, I got mine mail order from Kesgrove Tropicals. I'd recommend them.

I do love the sweep you've managed to get in your tank. It's suggestive of a much larger landscape. (And I agree with you - pinky lights aren't so nice.)


----------



## pariahrob (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

64.8 litres. Obviously too early for me. I didn't even think of online calculators. What kind of a geek am I?

I'll check them out. My local has some, so I'll go and have a look later. I have to stay in for now though. My plants are on the way and don't want to miss them.

Thank you. Once it's a bit more developed I'll take a video. Photos never quite do tanks justice I don't think. It's funny, I was originally going to do something very strict and iwagumi style but that is quite restricting in some ways and I'm not sure it's fair on the fish, so I'm trying to find a balance. I'm glad you see the landscape aspect. Means I'm doing something right.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

http://www.thinkfish.co.uk/calculators.php?calc=volume

I'm loving the tank as well btw, tempting me to use some spare gear I have to set up a "smaller" set up.


----------



## dw1305 (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Hi all,


> 64.8 litres. Obviously too early for me. I didn't even think of online calculators. What kind of a geek am I?


 Go on folks, it is ever so easy to work out volumes for rectangular tanks, just do it in meters, and remember that 1000 litres = 1m3. 

Then you get: 0.6 x 0.36 x 0.3 = 0.0648. 0.648 x 1000 = 64.8 (litres), take off 5 litres because it isn't brimful, and 10 litres for substrate and hardscape = 65 - 15 = 50 litres effective volume.

I like _Parotocinclus jumbo_ as well, but it needs relatively cool water, and has a high oxygen demand. <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=236>.

cheers Darrel


----------



## awtong (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> awtong said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think pitbulls would be the only ones to consider for a tank of this sort of size.

Out of interest Sarah have you softened the veg in boiling water for a few mins?  My plecs go crazy as soon as the veg goes in.  As an alternative mine also really enjoy soft ripe fruit like pear and melon.  maybe the pitbull's have a sweet tooth


----------



## sarahtermite (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



> Out of interest Sarah have you softened the veg in boiling water for a few mins?  My plecs go crazy as soon as the veg goes in.  As an alternative mine also really enjoy soft ripe fruit like pear and melon.  maybe the pitbull's have a sweet tooth



I've always blanched the veg - all the fish (bar the bulldog plecs!) like the peas, and the shrimp practically pounce on the courgette or cucumber. But the plecs remain aloof. Interesting to hear that yours like fruit - I'll definitely try that.

(Apologies Rob, for hijacking your thread.)


----------



## pariahrob (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

None needed. This is interesting info for me too.


----------



## pariahrob (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Quite a big update today. I finally got my plants from TGM. A day late but really that isn't a big problem (I had paid priority mail costs). They were very apologetic and that's what matters.

Anyway, I ordered some more cuba, to help fill out the carpet a bit quicker. I also ordered some Alternanthera reineckii on a whim. I wanted something with a bit of colour and this looked good. I'm not completely sold on the positioning of the one to the front left of the tank, so that may be moved.

I planted the cuba in smaller pieces than last time. I noticed it's quite a different shade of green to the other cuba too. A bit more of a pale mint green rather than yellow green. I guess this is down to how they were cared for in the shop. Both lots look healthy.

I also decided to get rid of the tropical pro lamp and replaced it with another plant pro. I hope you can tell but the difference amazed me. The quick photos below almost look like there is no water in the tank. The clarity has shot right up and I'm very happy indeed.

Ok, so on to some photos. 

FTS


RIght hand side close up. I like watching bubbles.


This tiny section looks like a little iwagumi all on it's own:


Here's the newbie:


And finally an in situ shot. Excuse the mess and lighting in the room. I do plan on taking some decent photos once I have the backdrop sorted.


----------



## Antipofish (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Starting to look really nice Rob.  I reckon pitbulls would be a great addition


----------



## awtong (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

I agree I don't like the Reineckii on the left but the flash of colour against the green and as a focal point it is nice.


----------



## Antipofish (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> I agree I don't like the Reineckii on the left but the flash of colour against the green and as a focal point it is nice.



I had quite a lot at the back of my tank and sold it. Wish I had not now, although the leaves did get a bit on the large size.


----------



## pariahrob (20 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 1 photos)*

Agreed. The more I look at it the more I think I should move it. It does look good against the green and it suits the dragonstone well. I think I may move it to just left of centre right at the back.

I think some dwarf hair grass might be in order for the foreground on the left. Then when I have some pogo cuttings they can go around where my filter intake is now.

Still can't decide on background. I have frosted there now but it's just too close to the wall to really work well. Think it might have to be black or white. Maybe I'll get some card tomorrow and play around.


----------



## pariahrob (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I said I was planning on taking a FTS at night and here it is. I did this mainly to show how good it looks with two plant pro lamps in the luminaire. The colours are really vibrant and the water looks so clear. I also get a lot of shimmer with the plant pros and the oBubble lily pipe, which I wasn't seeing before.
I haven't adjusted the colours or saturation at all. Only photoshop work was to crop slightly and compensate for lens distortion.



Now on to the snails. These dudes are growing at quite a rate. Pretty much doubling in size every day. The photo below is of the biggest I could see a few minutes ago. The shell is about 6mm long. Yesterday it was more like 3. I have 3 this size plus I keep seeing new little 1mm ones creeping around.

My question is should I leave them to it or will they do any damage? So far they are eating a little algae I have in the corner and scouring the substrate. I've not seen them try any plant life yet. What do you think?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Personally i act as soon as i see pond snails, if you let them be within a pretty short space of time they will be everywhere!  If there are just a dozen or so then simply net them out, if there are more then i use airline shyphon into a bucket and suck the buggers out.

Tank is looking well swish mate!


----------



## Kristoph91 (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Theyre pond snails. Need no male to reproduce and reach maturity very quick, although continue to grow after that! They eat plants! See my signature for help. Try and guess what the apache's are


----------



## pariahrob (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Right then. Looks like I'll need to deal with them soon as they are definitely doubling in size and number quickly!

Apache assassin snails maybe?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Assassins are pretty ineffective and getting rid of snails, they will keep the numbers down but sadly snails breed faster than assassins will terminate.  I had about 15 assassins in a 250ltr and they barely touched the population but did gang up to take down a cardinal in my iwagumi.


----------



## Antipofish (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Just pick them out as soon as you see them   Assassins will only eat baby snails in any case and looks like some of yours are a bit beyond that stage.  If you keep on top of it to start with it wont become an epidemic. (hopefully)


----------



## pariahrob (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Yeah, some are way past the baby stage! I'll pick them out as and when.

I noticed a tiny little white worm this evening as well. About 1/2mm thick and 3mm long. Seemed happy wiggling through the water . Quick little thing too. I wanted a photo but it's too fast and camera shy. I didn't have my macro lens nearby either, so it probably wouldn't have shown up.


----------



## Kristoph91 (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=15603&p=180248&hilit=borrowed+two+apache+gunships#p180248

Read this page about the puffers, thats where I stole it from.


----------



## greenink (21 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

My dwarf puffers were like a snail hit squad. Also cute. They leave my shrimp alone but I think that's a bit unusual.


----------



## pariahrob (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Ah, those little dudes are awesome. I was looking at them at my LFS just yesterday. I can imagine them being able to gobble a cherry shrimp but I reckon an Amano would give it a run for it's money.

What do you think?

Shrimp wise I'm planning on Amanos or those sulawesi dennerli if I can find any.


----------



## Kristoph91 (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Haha I reckon amano's are bigger than them! 
So no I don't think the puffers would bother them  

I think the puffers would defintely have a go at the Cardinals though. I don't think it'd be fun losing £10 each time one gets chomped. Then again, I have no experience with any sulawesi shrimp. So I wouldn't know.
BUT I would love to see the cardinals in this tank


----------



## greenink (21 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I prefer cherry shrimp as they breed so it's a one off investment, whereas amanos don't without brine, so you keep having to buy more. Though you need either a highly planted tank or a separate shrimp tank to get them up to resilient size.


----------



## pariahrob (21 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I'm pretty much sold on the sulawesi cardinals. I just need to find some! I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a little shrimp only tank too. I was thinking about one of those fluvial shrimp tank kits or I could get a little cube garden mini and make it a matching little cabinet to the 60-P. Is that overkill?


----------



## greenink (22 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Is that overkill?



This is not the place to ask that question. Pretty sure ukaps is responsible for some fish tank proliferation related divorces.


----------



## greenink (22 Apr 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

...


----------



## dw1305 (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi all,
I've never kept Sulawesi shrimps, but everything I've read suggests that they are tricky little b*ggers, and for that reason I would go for as bigger tank as you can find. The reason for this is that it is much easier to keep stable water conditions in a larger volume of water. 

For the same reason I would keep them just with _Tylomenia_ snails, and I would get the tank set up for several months before I added the snails. I'd also use the "reduction of BOD" method for tank maintenance, and treat them like fish with a high oxygen requirement. Have a look here <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>. 

Water parameters may be important as well, and I would try to replicate water parameters for the lakes fairly closely.

LondonDragon and Gill have kept them, have a look a this post: <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16435>.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hehe, I can believe that Mike. Luckily my mrs has already green lit a 120cm tank for later in the year, so a little shrimp tank should be ok.

Thanks Darrel, I'm going to read up now. Maybe I should stick to hardier breeds until I have a bit more experience under my belt.

Rob


----------



## Antipofish (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Hehe, I can believe that Mike. Luckily my mrs has already green lit a 120cm tank for later in the year, so a little shrimp tank should be ok.
> 
> Thanks Darrel, I'm going to read up now. Maybe I should stick to hardier breeds until I have a bit more experience under my belt.
> 
> Rob



If you are getting a 120 you will need to find a new home for the 60P hehe


----------



## pariahrob (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I think not. I think I might be able to get rid of an old church pew we have in that room instead. It was our garden bench for years. It can go back out!

The 60-P will stay. It will probably become something more experimental, or I'll use it for a specific purpose. Looking too far ahead though. This won't happen for a few months yet. For now I'm concentrating on learning and getting to grips with what I have.

My ammonia levels have dropped to almost nothing now. Nitrites are pretty high and nitrates are rising. Wont be long before some fish and shrimp go in.

Looking at the tank again this morning, I've decided the roseafolia is wrong. I like the colours and general placement but they are too tall and dominant. I'm going to do some pretty heavy pruning today when I do a water change and clean my filter.

Wondering if I should plant the cuttings and aim for bushiness instead of height.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I dont think that the Rosaefolia is suited to being a bush in that size tank personally.  The leaves just get too big and it would be unbelievably dominant   My tank is 80x45x55 and I still thought it got too big.  Although I did have about 20 stems.  I guess 3 or 5 stems would have worked better but instead I ripped the whole lot out.  After only a couple of weeks the roots were astonishing so pull yours out carefully if you do that.


----------



## pariahrob (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Yeah, the leaves are throwing the scale a bit. I may well just take the whole lot out. It's shame really. It's a very attractive plant.


----------



## Antipofish (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Yeah, the leaves are throwing the scale a bit. I may well just take the whole lot out. It's shame really. It's a very attractive plant.



Well I quite like the one at the back. I don't think that is too much. Its not central so it does not overpower.  Try just taking the left one out first and see what you think.  How many stems do you have at the back ?


----------



## pariahrob (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Ah, I actually made some adjustments this morning already! I'll take some new photos so you can give me some critique.

I hacked quite a bit out.


----------



## Kristoph91 (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Photos


----------



## pariahrob (22 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

FTS of my work earlier today. As you can see I've hacked the roseafolia right back. I moved a couple of stems over to the right for a hint of red. Just to balance very slightly. I really reduced the amount by the intake, as that was too dominant. 
I also gave the glosso a slight trim to encourage spread rather than height. Looking really green now. Noticed the HC is pearling too, although that could be from me agitating things so much.

Tank is coming along now. Still only a tiny bit of algae, just below the diffuser (and another damn snail).



I have quite a lot of amazonia and dragonstone left over and have been thinking of putting it to good use. I thought I'd try planting some cuttings and seeing if they will grow. Not much chance I'm sure but if I can get anything out of it I'll be well chuffed! Found some glosso floating on the tank so planted that too.


----------



## pariahrob (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

BIG day for me today. I've had a few days with no ammonia and headed over to my lfs to talk about fauna. I took the mrs with me and she spent some time chatting to an axolotl she's fallen in love with. She only got a few funny looks.

Anyway, I spent a while discussing options. I kind of knew I wanted shrimp and to start with cherries will suit me just fine and Sam (the expert there) had these three really richly coloured examples. Photos only show two. One went straight off to munch something out of sight. All three waited patiently while I acclimated them then shot off and started working on gobbling away.






Then I thought I'd talk about a plec or two. I decided on one but had no idea which type, as my knowledge of sizes and behaviours is limited to say the least. Sam knew of my interest in black and white theme, so suggested a few. Luckily the one my mrs liked (because of the polka dots) was in his list of suitable types. I can't remember the number or the second part of the name but it's a hypostomus something. £45 but worth keeping in mind for the future.

I really wanted to talk about shoaling fish and had been thinking of black neons or galaxies but Sam suggested something else. Borneo tiggers. I'd seen tigers but not tiggers and I'm rather taken with them. Still I do like black and white and the orange on the galaxies is also good (have a look at my site, you'll see what I mean - pariahstudios.co.uk).

So with some more info to think about and my choices narrowing nicely we headed off. Then she sprang it on me. SHe'd bought me a little algae sucking gift. Meet Marvin:



He's a cool little dude. Will only grow to 6 or 7 cm and is quite the dandy. He should leave my plants well alone but will keep the tank clean.
He looked pretty in the store tanks but looks awesome in mine. The t5s really make him shine! 

SO while he settles in for a week or two I'll be deciding on shoaling fish and I may well be picking up more shrimp soon. They are such fascinating creatures to watch. Who needs a TV?!

p.s I'll get some better pics of Marvin once he settles somewhere I can get a camera to.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I WANT HIM !!!  Rob he is stunning.  So what is his latin name ?


----------



## pariahrob (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Thanks! 

I can't remember the latin. I'll call tomorrow and ask. They had two more of these there as well. 

He is a bit of a looker. Lights are out now or I'd be down taking more photos. I'll get some tomorrow. The cherries are proper posers! So red too. Look great. I need to hunt down some more, or some cardinals.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

If they are that red, does that make them Sakura ?


----------



## pariahrob (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I don't know. Possibly?

Does that make them lunch?

I like the way they draw attention to themselves. They find the top of the most obvious piece of stone and stand there showing off.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

thats a very good locking fish!  Have you considered Synodontis petricola for you black white fetish?


----------



## Kristoph91 (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Best present ever  He's great looking! 

Nice shrimp too, they must be fire red!  
Tanks looking great


----------



## pariahrob (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. Specially as this is my first planted tank and first of any kind in a long long time. 

Iain, I saw them today. They really cute little dudes but apparently they would uproot my HC, so a no no. Shame as they do look good. Nice and lively too.

Kris, thanks. I don't know much about the types of cherry but quite possibly.

Oh and I remembered the pleco is a Hypancistrus Inspector. OK, so I remembered the inspector part and google helped with the rest.

Thanks again guys. I think I may go with tiger barbs for my shoaling fish.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Tiger barbs are little b4stards.  Go for Pentazona barbs instead.  Google them.  MUCH nicer


----------



## Antipofish (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi.  Cool, well I dont know who told you he would only grow to 6 or 7 cms cos according to Planet Catfish (see the link below) They can get to over 6".   But for now, he's a cute little guy  And of course, these data sheets often state the biggest that they have been found in the wild.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=204


----------



## pariahrob (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

If that is the case then I really hope I have the 120 on the go by then! It is also possible that I remembered wrong and yeah, maybe six inches is the maximum and he will stay around the 2 or 3 inch mark.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## sarahtermite (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I WANT HIM !!!  Rob he is stunning.  So what is his latin name ?



Ditto! He's gorgeous! Will he really only grow to 6 or 7cm?


----------



## pariahrob (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Thank you. He must be blushing with all the compliments. 

Only time will tell but I trust the guy at the shop. He's always very helpful and never tries to sell. Just advise. 

He seems pretty knowledgeable too. He's won a lot of awards for his fish.


----------



## dw1305 (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi all,


> _Hypancistrus Inspector_


 He is more likely to be L201<http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=2178>, or possibly _H. contradens_ <http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=677>, than _H. inspector_. These don't grow as big as _H. inspector_, but they are all definitely not algae eaters. I feed mine on earthworms, prawns, earthworm flake, vegetables and Astax red crumb, but any reasonable mixed diet will do. 

These are quite demanding fish and need high oxygen levels and warm water, it also needs a cave to hide in during the day, or it will become very stressed. I've got another _Hypancistrus, H. debliterra_, formerly L129, and a single L333 (all the spotty and stripy species are difficult to ID when they are small), and I virtually never see any of them.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Thanks for the into Darrel. That makes sense. I had made a cave last week. He hasn't died it out yet but he has been hiding  in the darkest spot behind the big stones.
The guy at the LFS gave me some algae wafer/spirulina for hi and the shrimp and said half a wafer every three days and to add a bit of veg every couple of days too.

Should it be raw veg? What kind of veg is best? I can't imagine a roast would go down too well!


edit - Just re-read those links. My guess would be L201 if I can compare him to the photos.


----------



## dw1305 (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi all,
For veg. I feed cucumber, courgette, red pepper, sweet potato, green beans, peas, melon skin or butter-nut squash. I just use what ever is in the kitchen, I don't think that it probably matters too much which veg it is. I blanch the beans and peas (usually they are the cooked ones the kids have failed to eat), everything else is raw, but you need a stainless steel fork etc to sink it to the bottom. The shrimps and Otocinclus should have a go at it, even if the _Hypancistrus_ doesn't at first. Shrimps really like cooked carrot, but I can't remember if the Loricariids did.

Have a look on "Plecoplanet" or "Planetcatfish" for a more complete list. 
This is from Plecoplanet <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=45>

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Awesome thank you. I remember reading about peas before. I'll try some of these out for sure.


----------



## awtong (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

A very nice Plec you have there   

Hypancistrus Inspector are quite rare in the trade according to my book and that agree's with Darrel that it is more likely to be L201 which are a bit more common.  My plec's are fairly slow growing so I think you will be ok for a while.

My L134's, L270 and L128 all like the veg mentioned above but they also like some ripe pear and a split open grape or two.  I tend to sink my veg on a plant weight.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

A massive thanks to everybody for their advice and opinions so far. It's so encouraging and helpful!

I made my decision on shoaling fish. I picked up 10 CPDs today and in a week or two I'm going to get a small shoal of zebra danios. The CPDs are great looking fish and are happily zipping around avoiding my lens but here are a couple of shots.






Question. Hikori micro pellets were recommended to feed them but I have no idea how much. Do I go for the feed until they stop eating approach, or will they just keep on eating?


----------



## pariahrob (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Marvin the plec is mesmerising! I just sat in the near dark watching him explore his new home. He's been quite investigative and has eaten a bit of wafer. I think that must be a good sign.
He stands out quite well in the dark. His spots give him away.

I think I may be becoming a bit obsessive. I can't seem to walk by without stopping to watch whats going on. The shrimp are fascinating to watch as well.

But I must get ready for work. Things to do!


----------



## darren636 (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

a pinch of hikari a couple times a day will be fine, danios will eat until they pop.


----------



## hinch (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

once you get a plec other fish just get boring fast  i can spend hours watching mine.

just remember your little snowball is primarily a meat eater  so feed frozen meat tablets or something like the high protein new era catfish pellets. while he will eat veg etc (and must do for a balanced diet) its mostly protein based foods needed


----------



## sarahtermite (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Question. Hikori micro pellets were recommended to feed them but I have no idea how much. Do I go for the feed until they stop eating approach, or will they just keep on eating?



Excellent choice - I have them in my main thank, and they're brilliant. I spend a lot of time with my nose pressed up against the glass watching them. They were skinny little babies when I got them, but now they're bigger they've all got nicely rounded and have coloured up beautifully. For what it's worth, I have a culture of microworms on the go (nice and easy!), and my CPDs get these 2 - 3 times a week. The worms (nematodes) are only tiny, but the fish love them.


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Ok twice daily feeding of the CPDs. Easy enough. Being nocturnal should I feed Marvin at night? About 10ish he seems to come out from his hideaway and start cruising the HC.

Thanks Sarah, I'll look into the nematodes.


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Ok, please post any suggestions of fish you think would be suited to this tank. I have some ideas already but this is a learning process for me so I would love to hear what you think and why.

This will help me learn about breeds and compatability etc.

If you can post links or photos I'd be grateful too


----------



## dw1305 (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi all,


> in a week or two I'm going to get a small shoal of zebra danios.


 Don't get Zebra Danios, they are really a sub-tropical fish and don't do well long term at high temperatures, although they are incredibly tolerant of sub-optimal conditions. I think CPD are much the same. _Hypancistrus_ spp. are best at 26oC - 30oC. 

Both CPD's and Zebra Danios do best in harder water than _Hypancistrus_ as well, although I don't think water hardness is vitally important compared to water quality, and particularly oxygenation.

I wrote an oxygenation primer specifically for plec keepers - "_Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium_", it has had a few homes, but it is at: <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829> at present, and despite its title is really mainly about biological filtration. 

I like micro-worms for small fish as well as fry, they are a favourite food item for Threadfin rainbows and Dwarf Corydoras as well, and incredibly low maintenance and cheap to culture.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Yeah, Zebras are a no no. i've had a conversation about that this morning and the fact that somebody at a garden centre had said they would be fine. They might survive but they wouldn't be comfortable.

The chap I do trust had suggested borneo tiggers. With two 'G's not one. Google isn't helping but he was very specific in the spelling and said the tiggers are rare but easy to keep and attractive.

Anybody got any ideas?


----------



## awtong (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> once you get a plec other fish just get boring fast  i can spend hours watching mine.



 This is so true Hinch.

Just you wait a few weeks of "Marvin" and you will want a big tank full of plecs.  Did your wife/significant other name the fish as mine does this for the pleco's?


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

So far he is only really out at night. Lights on means he is hiding but I've got some peas prepped and enjoy watching him cruise around at night. I'll get the tripod set up later and see if I can get some low light photos. He is a handsome chap!

Actually I named him. He has melancholic eyes, so I named him after Marvin from Hitch hikers guide. She can name all ten CPDs! As long as she can recognise them.


----------



## hinch (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Just you wait a few weeks of "Marvin" and you will want a big tank full of plecs.  Did your wife/significant other name the fish as mine does this for the pleco's?



mines named every single one of mine even the fresh wigglers which are barely a day out of the egg!


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I think it might be the same here. She's taking more and more of an interest, which is good in my book.

What about neon rainbow fish? 
Small, attractive and top to middle, so not too much clashing with the CPDs (who seem to love it everywhere).


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Yet more questions!

I noticed there is a bit of algae building up on my diffuser. What's best to clean this up? Supurge? Or something else?

Same applies to my lily pipes when they need it. It also just occurred to me that I don't knw how I'm going to prime my filter once I replace the lily pipes! Any ideas? It's a rena xp2 and has a good system for closing off the pipes easily. If I fill the inlet hose then put the glass inlet on and open the tap again will that be enough to start the syphoning process or will the (inlet sized) bubble be a problem?

Cheers


----------



## Antipofish (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Hi Rob. priming should not be a problem.  Though I dont think the Rena has a priming button does it  ? Thats one of those filters where the inlet hose has a funny attachment if I remember, that you pour water into.  You could get a quick connector tap set (Eheim) and put that inline in the return pipe.  Then you just disconnect it and suck on the end of it to start the syphon then reconnect


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Actually now you say that it might work with what I have. It's got it's own style of quick connector tap but it controls in and out flow at the same time. Might be tricky!
I'll give it a go tomorrow and see if I flood the house or not!


----------



## Antipofish (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Actually now you say that it might work with what I have. It's got it's own style of quick connector tap but it controls in and out flow at the same time. Might be tricky!
> I'll give it a go tomorrow and see if I flood the house or not!



Hmm where is the quick connector  ? Is it at the hose adaptor ?  Dont forget you will get backflow from the return pipe if it is full of water !!


----------



## pariahrob (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

It's this bad boy:


The bit right in the middle of the lid/connector tips back to shut off the hoses. I guess I could fill the inlet hose, reconnect the lily pipe then turn push the connector back down. That starts the priming process and syphons in water till the can fills.
The only issue I can see there is that there would be a lily pipe sized amount of air sucked down. Or would it. My physics isn't good enough to know off the top of my head.


----------



## Antipofish (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

It will be a case of "suck it and see"    Excuse the pun !!!  What you have showed me there is called a hose adaptor usually.  Most externals have them now.  But having to remove it can be a pain, and a bit wet sometimes.  I still personally think for a tenner you would be better off getting the eheim quick connector tap set and putting them inline in the return pipe where they would be out of site. If you dont get what I am saying, flick me a PM and i will try and explain more clearly   Cheers.


----------



## pariahrob (26 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Well, my first three weeks are over and I'm very pleased with progress. Water quality seems good, plant growth appears strong and fast. The glosso I planted to start with, which completely melted, has come back looking very healthy.

I imagine this is all f=down to reading up on other journals and seeing what works best, so thank you all for the head start!   

My cuba carpet is coming along nicely and I've started on the odd trim plus back of hand tip I read via twitter earlier today (thanks George). The Valis was partially munched on by a snail I missed but I think it will be ok. Pogo, hair grass and Pavula are all looking great and after some initial melting the blyxa looks good too. Still a few areas that need to come back though.

Tank is starting to look great too but some plant growth was getting to the point of needing a trim, so I did that today. Just a tidy up and I still have to net out the odd bit of floating hair grass I missed (it's always the photos that help me spot things).

Here are before and after photos. I think I've definitely decided on a black background now. I just have to sort it out. Still debating fish for top level and maybe another shoal for the middle. Phantom tetras are a possible choice and my mrs still wants hatchets!

Thanks again!


----------



## Ady34 (26 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

Filling in nicely.
Beware, Hatchets will jump from open topped tanks!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## sarahtermite (26 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I really like the amount of movement you've got at the surface. You don't find that it drives off the CO2?


----------



## pariahrob (26 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 2 photos)*

I knew about the jumping. I'm not all that fond of them anyway. If you have a better idea for a top level fish then please let me know.

Thanks Sarah. Purely judging by the colour of my DC I'd say there is little difference. Maybe a tiny amount but then although there is more surface agitation than before I had the glasswork it isn't too violent. It's quite gentle. There is more flow below the surface than you might think.


----------



## pariahrob (27 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Today Marvin decided to start properly exploring the tank, so I managed to snap a few photos of his travels. Shame the photos show up the glass being a bit grubby! It doesn't look it to the naked eye. Off to go and give it a clean now!

Also a massive thanks to sarahtermite for the microworms. My culture is starting now!

Time to get up:



Pretend to clean the glass but really just checking out the handsome reflection:



Get up close and personal for a photoshoot:


Slighty raised nitrite levels today too. No signs of any stress but did a partial WC and also added a sachet of API ammonia and nitrite removing media to the filter to help out. Hopefully that will do the job. My local expert thinks a few days with 10-20% WCs and no feeding will do the job.


----------



## pariahrob (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Nitrate levels are now falling but still going to hold off feeding. I'm going to stick to small water changes for a couple more days.

My shortlist for fish is now a straight battle between black phantom tetra and the blackskirt tetra. Both seem well suited to my tank from what I can read up. Anybody had any experience with them?


----------



## pariahrob (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Nitrate levels are now falling but still going to hold off feeding. I'm going to stick to small water changes for a couple more days.

My shortlist for fish is now a straight battle between black phantom tetra and the blackskirt tetra. Both seem well suited to my tank from what I can read up. Anybody had any experience with them?


----------



## Ian Holdich (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

why are you bothered about NitrAte levels? They are one of the best things in a planted tank.


----------



## REDSTEVEO (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi, just browsed through this. A few thoughts on a couple of things I read throughout the journal.

1. Nice though he is, sack the Pleco and go for Ottocinclus instead.
2. I used two dwarf puffers to get rid of my snail problem. I have still got the puffers and haven't seen a snail in over twelve months. The puffers don't bother my cardinals or my Amano shrimp.
3. If you are still looking for shoaling fish and want to add a bit of colour check out Ruby Tetras, they stay small, brighten up the tank and shoal well. They also breed themselves fairly easily.
4. Any algae problems Flourish Excel did the job for me, but be very careful and not overdose, I nuked my plants and algae at the same time.

Interesting tank, I'll keep my eye on this and watch developments.

Good luck,

Steve


----------



## pariahrob (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Sorry ianho, I meant nitrite!

Thanks Steve. I can't sack the plec. My mrs would go with him! 
I had wondered about dwarf puffers in the past but was persuade against them, due to their aggressive nature with other fish. They are quite enticing though.
I'd not looked at Ruby tetras. I'll check them out.

Thanks.


----------



## dw1305 (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,


> Pretend to clean the glass but really just checking out the handsome reflection:


 "Marvin" looks a bit thin. If you look at his reflection you can see that his belly is slightly concave. They should be quite tubby really.

I'd carry on feeding him, probably with something like a Prawn or Mussel, that is high in protein. You can put it in the evening at lights out, and then take it out after a few hours if you are worried about it effecting water quality.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (28 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

He does seem a little thin. I've not seen him eat yet. Ive put a couple of wafers in and some peas at lights out but I don't think he's had any yet. 
I've been removing them in the morning. 

I was hoping its due to him adjusting to my tank but I am a little worried. 
Is there anything I can do?


----------



## dw1305 (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,
If he was wild caught, or from SE Asia, he may be suffering from internal parasites. But L201 is quite frequently bred in the UK by hobbiests, so he is most likely tank bred.

The problem with even the "easier" Loricariids is that they have quite narrow tolerances, and if they are stressed at all they don't tend to eat, another problem is that he may not recognise either the wafers or peas (you need to take the shell off) as food. 

Have a look a these articles on food: 
<http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...icle_id=294&title=Feeding+PlecosTypes+of+food> &
 <http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...cle_id=426&title=Feeding+PlecosWho+eats+what?>

and habitat:
<http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...atural+Catfish+AquariumUnderstanding+habitats> & <http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanes...ural+Catfish+AquariumMaterials+and+Techniques>

He really needs some high protein food that he recognises as food as soon as possible, which is why I suggested a shell-off Prawn or Mussel. Another possibility would be blood-worms (although I don't really like frozen blood-worms) or earthworms, either small live worms or sections of larger ones. I culture _Lumbricus rubellus_, you are more than welcome to some. White worms would be another possibility, or Grindal Worms, although Grindal worms aren't as suitable if you have a lot of flow as they tend to remain in suspension, again you are more than welcome to some Grindals.

If you have a source of Ramshorn, Tadpole or Pond Snails, you could try a couple of these crushed and put in at night.

In the longer term you may find some frozen food like Mysis shrimp may be suitable.

Finally have a look a this post: <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/...4&p=215719&hilit=feeding+Hypancistrus#p215719>  the food details are relevant for all _Hypancistrus_, not just _H. zebra_.

cheers Darrel


----------



## awtong (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

As Darrel states it is about acclimating them and getting them used to the prepared foods.  Keep offering a mix of foods and hopefully he will soon eat.  My plecs also like the hikari carnivore tabs.


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Thanks guys. Really good links and encouraging too. 
Last night I put in half a wafer (the ones my lfs suggested, hikari) and that has all gone. A couple of cherries had had a sniff but no way they could've eaten it so my hope is he got it. 

This brings me on to something else. Wood. One of the links and a few other people have mentioned putting wood in the tank for him to chew on. This seems species related though and vtheir is some debate over what he is, somi wonder what to do.  How much of what kind of wood is right?

I have noticed this morning that he didn't shoot off and hide when the light came on. Maybe he is acclimating after all?

Any other tips are more than appreciated. 

Darren, I have some pond snails in my tank. I fish them out now and then but they seem to just materialise. I'll try your idea but if that doesn't work or he doesn't like them I may take you up on your offer. Thank you for that. This is such a good community!


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I should just add that before the nitrites raised a little the CPDs were eating fine. Just in case it's relevant. Nitrites are falling again now, slowly but surely.


----------



## Antipofish (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I should just add that before the nitrites raised a little the CPDs were eating fine. Just in case it's relevant. Nitrites are falling again now, slowly but surely.



Rob when you say they are falling slowly but surely, how much of a spike did you get ? I thought you just meant there was a little rise associated with adding a few fish.  It sounds more like it went sky high from your above comment.


----------



## dw1305 (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,


> I have noticed this morning that he didn't shoot off and hide when the light came on. Maybe he is acclimating after all?


 Rob, I'm very worried now, this is a bad sign, healthy _Hypancistrus_ will always retreat to their cave in the light. Any nocturnal Loricariid out in the day time would worry me, and _Hypancistrus_ are much more strictly nocturnal than either _Ancistrus_ or _Peckoltia_ spp. 


> Last night I put in half a wafer (the ones my lfs suggested, hikari) and that has all gone. A couple of cherries had had a sniff but no way they could've eaten it so my hope is he got it.


 I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't care what the LFS said to you, I can't put it any more clearly, half a Hikari wafer isn't going to help, he needs something more substantial. *You need to offer him some high protein meaty feed as soon as possible, or he will die*. There is nothing wrong with Hikari Wafers, Tetra Prima etc as a component of his diet, but they aren't what he needs at the moment. 


> This brings me on to something else. Wood. One of the links and a few other people have mentioned putting wood in the tank for him to chew on. This seems species related though and vtheir is some debate over what he is, somi wonder what to do. How much of what kind of wood is right?


  No, you can ignore the wood, _Hypancistrus_ don't eat any wood, they haven't got the right teeth. I have wood in all my tanks as a surface for  biofilm development etc. and some softer wood in the tank with _Ancistrus_ L100 in it as a food source, but none of the _Hypancistrus_ have ever grazed either the wood, or the biofilm. 

The cochliodon group of _Hypostomus_ and all _Panaque_ spp. are obligate wood feeders, some of the other herbivorous genera like _Lasiancistrus_ eat some and _Baryancistrus_ spp. and many _Ancistrus_ spp. graze the biofilm on woody surfaces and may take some wood fragments. _Panaque_ spp. have big chisel shaped wood processing teeth, and the herbivores teeth like a pad of velcro, but _Hypancistrus_ have relatively few peg shaped teeth, see image below.






If you can get hold of it the "Back to Nature - Guide to L numbers..." by Ingo Seidel is a really good buy (should be some on Ebay). It is out of print in the English Edition, so even if you don't use it you may be able to sell it at a profit later on.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Well, it went from 0 - 2ppm over the couple of days following adding the fish. I thought it was due to adding them but then it may be something to do with adding more bio media to my filter too. I was told that it is a good idea to mix a variety of bio media, as each brand is better for different bacteria.
So I now have some fluval media in there with the API bio stars. My feeling was that as these become colonised the nitrites may have increased.

If I have this blahblahblahblah about face then please say. I have to learn.


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Sorry Darrel, I was typing while you replied.

Ok, I have a fe snails I can give him plus some micro worms (I think they might be too small). On the plus side he is now back in his cave avoiding the light.

So, what is the best way to give him the snails? Or even worms out of the garden? Will he realise they are food? That sounds like a daft question but after reading those links I'm not so sure.

Any advice at all is more than welcome. The last thing I want to do is stress my fish, or worse!


----------



## dw1305 (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,


> So, what is the best way to give him the snails? Or even worms out of the garden? Will he realise they are food? That sounds like a daft question but after reading those links I'm not so sure.


Don't feed the microworms, they are too small, although your CPD's will probably enjoy them. With the snails, I would just crush them between thumb and forefinger, and drop them near the cave entrance. Same with the worms, if they are small and whole I would wait until lights out, as otherwise they may bury into the substrate and become inaccessible, if they are larger you can pinch them into sections. Ideally you would want bits big enough to still have a bit of wriggle, if you are squeamish you can use scissors rather than finger-nails.


> Will he realise they are food? That sounds like a daft question but after reading those links I'm not so sure.


 Should do, that is the advantage of feeding natural food, the fish doesn't have to learn that it is edible. If you have food with some movement that helps by stimulating the natural feeding response, and I'm pretty sure that L201 was one of the _Hypancistrus_ species that eats snails naturally. I don't have any Ramshorn snails in my tank with L333 and L129 in it, but that may be a water hardness issue rather than predation.

Have a look at this link: <http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2767> where it mentions the natural diet of _Hypancistrus contradens_.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Antipofish (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Well, it went from 0 - 2ppm over the couple of days following adding the fish. I thought it was due to adding them but then it may be something to do with adding more bio media to my filter too. I was told that it is a good idea to mix a variety of bio media, as each brand is better for different bacteria.
> So I now have some fluval media in there with the API bio stars. My feeling was that as these become colonised the nitrites may have increased.
> 
> If I have this blahblahblahblah about face then please say. I have to learn.



Thats quite a high jump.  (IMHO). Let me guess.  Your LFS advised you to get a variety of media ?      Adding new media (as long as you are not removing old) should not create a nitrite spike such as that.  Its most likely from adding the fish, but you didnt add many so I am surprised it spiked as much and for as long.  I only ever see a glimmer, maybe .25ppm and then only for a few hours (when I can be bothered to monitor it, as I am confident enough that my filter can handle it).  Did you REPLACE media or just ADD  ?


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

It wasn't my LFS but somebody I know who has kept fish for years. If it had been my LFS I'd have suspected a quick sale was being looked for.

I added the media. The existing bio stars were left in. 

I've done a test today (I know, I know. Tests aren't always accurate) and the level has dropped a bit more. It's at a touch over 1ppm if it can be relied on.

Hopefully the next few days will see it drop back to 0 and I can quit worrying.


----------



## Antipofish (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> It wasn't my LFS but somebody I know who has kept fish for years. If it had been my LFS I'd have suspected a quick sale was being looked for.
> 
> I added the media. The existing bio stars were left in.
> 
> ...



OK, well I personally don't see the point of having a load of different media, but as long as you are not replacing and only adding I don't see it making a difference.  I would however, always consider media that has a higher surface area like Siporax or Matrix, or even alfagrog at a tenth of the price.  Or even Eheim substrat pro (although I think it leads to a greater reduction in flow than Siporax).  With fish in and 2ppm I would have been doing 50% WC daily to help reduce it.  This might have meant the bacteria took longer to get up to speed but it would at least have been keeping the toxicity levels in the tank lower.  Sounds like you only have a couple more days till its ok again.  Then I would leave it at least a week before adding anything else


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Quite right! I have been doing daily water changes, just to alleviate some of the stress where I can. I've reduced the feeding as well, in a bid to lower any waste pollutants.

You mentioned the siporax before. I'm certainly going to look into that in the future. At some point I'd like to set up a shrimp tank (plus there is the 120 to plan for), so will use some of the existing media to start off the new filters. At that point I'll probably add some siporax to this one.

Yep, no more fish for a while once this sorts itself. I need to let the tank catch it's breath. Hopefully a couple more days will see it start to balance out again.


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Good news! He's eaten a bit of snail now and is currently checking out a slice of cucumber. He's not tried it yet but I'll leave it for a couple of hours and see what he makes of it.

I'll do the same again tomorrow night with the water change and live food. Maybe he just needed to see something wriggle (he's a wriggler himself).

Thanks for the tips all!


----------



## pariahrob (29 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Well he is definitely eating. Not a lot but some. 

He is wiggling a lot now. I don't know what that means but I hope he is ok!


----------



## sarahtermite (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Go dig up some worms! It should be easy to find some small ones to tempt him with.


----------



## hinch (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

get some of these
http://www.new-era-aquaculture.com/fish ... ec-pellets
or these if he's a smaller plec
http://www.new-era-aquaculture.com/fish ... sh-pellets

they're very high protein very good for the meat eating plec variety


----------



## pariahrob (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Great links, thank you. I might well give that stuff a try.

Sarah, I think I'm going to do that but will wait til my nitrites are back to 0.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I didnt know new era did tropical food ,but then ive never looked! im a big fan of the marine agis flakes etc..
If the tropical is as good i will certainly buy some of the dried foods.


----------



## pariahrob (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Got home from work today and tested my water. Looks like it's back to normal at last.

Fish are all looking good too and seem happy. 

Next task for me is to clean the glassware. I'll order some superge and a brush and keep on top of that. I have a very slight green tint on my stone and the ceramic of my diffuser and I'd rather keep on top of it so will start a regular maintenance schedule for that.

I'm working from home tomorrow as well, so may extend my lunch to do a little pruning as my blyxa and varpula have decided it's time to have a growth spurt!


----------



## sarahtermite (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Got home from work today and tested my water. Looks like it's back to normal at last.



Glad to hear you got on top of that. I'm sure the fish are pleased, too!


----------



## pariahrob (30 Apr 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I may be imagining it but they look happier. Even marvin is more active. I just and watched for half an hour as he sucked and wriggled his way across the front of the tank. 

Now the water is back to normal I can start feeding some microworms as well. I'd been holding off to reduce the load during the spike. I bet the CPDs will appreciate them!


----------



## pariahrob (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I've just been having a good look at my tank and planning some maintenance later today. I think I will be chopping the roseafolia quite a lot and there is some new root growth at some node levels (is that the correct term?).

If anybody would like a little I'm sure there will be some spare. Let me know and I'll pop it in the post. I doubt there will be much so it will be first come first served.


----------



## pariahrob (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Did a little light pruning. NOt as much as I thought I would but some. Just a trim to neaten things up a bit. I'm feeling that less leafy plants might be better with more grass like instead.
What do you think?

The HC is coming along nicely and the glosso that came back to life is popping up all over the place. I'm really liking the combo of glosso, HC, pogo and blyxa. I think they work really well with the dragonstone.

Anyway, here is a FTS. bit of a quick one but shows some progress.



Marvin the plec is still looking a little thin but I'm pretty sure he is eating. He certainly cleaned a big patch of glass overnight. Fingers crossed he was just settling in and I'm sure the brief nitrite increase didn't help.

Water is all good now too. I'm going to let it settle for a bit then move on to the next stage.


----------



## greenink (1 May 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

This is seriously impressive for a first planted tank.


----------



## Antipofish (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I think you have a nice balance of leaf types Rob  Looking good.


----------



## pariahrob (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Wow, thanks Mike. 
It's all thanks to people like yourself helping out and posting inspirational scopes. I've benefited from a lot of other peoples experience.

It's going ok so far apart from a recent worry. My main issue now is the HC is looking a little yellow in places. I'm think it's caused by the lack of ferts over the last few days. I stopped the green bright while the nitrites were raised but have started again as of today.

Thanks again!


----------



## pariahrob (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Cheers Chris. I'm happy overall. I'm not too keen on the plant to the right of centre behind the big stone. I can't remember what it's called but I don't think it fits. I think some more blyxa or maybe parvula might be better there.

It grows at a huge rate though! Just not sure about the colour or shape.


----------



## pariahrob (1 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Ordered some superge as the glassware is just starting to get a bit grubby. Also ordered a spring brush to help with the cleaning. 
Finally I've ordered a black background too. I've been meaning too for a while. I think it will really help bring out the best in my scape.


----------



## awtong (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Tank is looking great.  Just keep offering a good range to Marvin and I am sure he will fatten up.  It took me a while to condition my Blue Phantom when I got him and only recently he seems to have put on his first noticable growth spurt.  It's nice to see that you have taken time to get good advice and really put the time into caring for him and the tank.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Thanks Andy, that is encouraging to know. I'm still a little anxious about him not eating. I keep telling myself that he eats at night while I'm asleep and that I'm being daft. He's been given a mix wafer, cucumber, crushed snails and they all seem to go except the cucumber. 
I guess the CPDs aren't touching any of that and the sakuras would take forever to eat a wafer...


----------



## awtong (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I didn't see my Chocolate Zebra eat for around 2 months as it was only coming out late at night / early morning when I was sleeping.  This was my first plec and the first time I saw her eat still ranks as one of my favorite memories of keeping tanks and fish.  I got so excited I think the wife thought I was crazy.

Keep feeding, keep the tank stable and keep your fingers crossed is all you can do!

Andy


----------



## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks Andy, that is encouraging to know. I'm still a little anxious about him not eating. I keep telling myself that he eats at night while I'm asleep and that I'm being daft. He's been given a mix wafer, cucumber, crushed snails and they all seem to go except the cucumber.
> I guess the CPDs aren't touching any of that and the sakuras would take forever to eat a wafer...



I wouldn't bother with cucumber, even if he was more of a herbivore than a carnivore.  Cucumber has minimal substance and nutritional value.  Courgette is *far far better *    But if he is eating the other stuff then give him more of the meaty stuff Rob   You could rig up red lights over the tank and watch nocturnal activity hehe.


----------



## hinch (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks Andy, that is encouraging to know. I'm still a little anxious about him not eating. I keep telling myself that he eats at night while I'm asleep and that I'm being daft. He's been given a mix wafer, cucumber, crushed snails and they all seem to go except the cucumber.
> I guess the CPDs aren't touching any of that and the sakuras would take forever to eat a wafer...




I'm sure we've said this before but marvin is a meat eater! while he'll eat cucumber at his size and him prefering meat and high protein foods the cucumber will always go last.

Get some frozen daphnia and bloodworm etc


----------



## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> pariahrob said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hinch, as a thought do you think discus beefheart mix might suit him too ? Just trying to think of as many options as possible for Rob (and so he gets the message about MEAT   ).

Rob... are you a vegetarian or something ?


----------



## pariahrob (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

My mrs is. Maybe she's brainwashing me.

No, I've been crushing snails for him as well. Oddly I was cleaning yesterday and found a number of empty snail shells. I wonder if that might be anything to do with him? Would he kill them himself?

Daphnia and bloodworm are both easy to get. I discovered a specialist called Amazon Aquatics in my town last night. I'd never seen it before! If they don't have any I know the lfs I usually go to does.

Am I better off with live, frozen or what?

Less likely I know but are there any illnesses I should look out for that a less experienced keeper can identify? Just a thought.


I'm off to cook some lentils and tofu


----------



## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hope your Mrs ducks for cover after the lentils !!! They can be somewhat "explosive"   

I have personally always been a bit wary of live foods due to possibility of parasites, but perhaps things have progressed since that opinion was formulated over a decade ago so I will let others with more current knowledge on that answer the question better.  As far as the shells go, I am not sure either.  But if you are certain the crushed ones you are putting out are going that could be a good sign.  I think variety is important though for sure.  Mine get about 6 different food type.  All are nice and healthy, although sadly I was unable to keep Ottos successfully like many seem to be.


----------



## hinch (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

frozen are fine just chuck a cube in the tank and it'll get devoured. also those new era pellets I linked to a few pages ago plecs go nuts for just drop some in and watch them go mad (obviously if you only have the one plec and he's only small and you're using the big pellets put only one in !).  You shouldn't need to crush the snails for him he should be able to clear them out themselves.  they also like bits of fish fillet and prawn.

if he's a wild caught he could have worms/internal parasites easily treatable but I would try fattening him up on proper food before dosing the tank. keep an eye on his belly if its sunk in then he's not fed up right / has issues once he's settled in and eating a proper diet he should become nice and tubby if he starts eating and doesn't fatten up then dose the tank.


----------



## pariahrob (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Cheers.

The New Era food is ordered and I think I'll pick up some frozen food on the way home too. Variety sounds sensible at this point.
Sound like the empty snail shells are a good sign then.


----------



## dw1305 (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,


> Oddly I was cleaning yesterday and found a number of empty snail shells. I wonder if that might be anything to do with him? Would he kill them himself?


 Yes I think, L201 is definitely recorded as eating snails.


> I discovered a specialist called Amazon Aquatics in my town last night. I'd never seen it before!


If you live in Warminster Wilts? that is Mike's shop and he is a top bloke, if you live in Leigh Lancs? I've never been in, but I believe that is a good shop as well. 


> I have personally always been a bit wary of live foods due to possibility of parasites, but perhaps things have progressed since that opinion was formulated over a decade ago so I will let others with more current knowledge on that answer the question better.


I think they are pretty safe, I would however steer away from frozen bloodworm and live tubifex. If you use earth-worms you are definitely safe from any worries.


> Hinch, as a thought do you think discus beefheart mix might suit him too


 Probably not, animal fats aren't readily digestible by fish, and personally I wouldn't recommend beef-heart as a food for any fish (including Discus). The fats issue is why people use heart rather than steak etc, heart is "smooth muscle", and doesn't contain any fat as long as the animal was healthy and the heart was very carefully trimmed, but it is still a very unnatural food and likely to cause water pollution etc.

There are plenty of fish and/or invertebrate based foods, including the pea/shrimp Loricariid/cichlid mix. 
Details here: <http://www.cichlidae.com/section.php?id=72> and here, <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278>. The latter poster ("CUP"), is _Hypancistrus_ guru Jon Tarn and he wrote 





> (_for carnivorous fish .......You really just change the ratio of meat to vegetable. You don't want to cook the animal protein portion of the meal, as it makes it a stringy mess. Catfish fillets (usually some sort of ictalurid) would be my rec. It's mushy and has very little texture to it, so it is easy to mash up. That, an egg white or two, some flake food, a bit of spirulina extract, and tie it up with some gelatin. Makes for a good carnivore meal.
> 
> There are a few things I've changed in recent years, which have, imo, vastly improved this recipe:
> 
> ...


cheers Darrel


----------



## hinch (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

frozen bloodworm is fine darrel at least I've never had any problems and the fishies love it the l14's grab a cube each and sit on it  so nobody else can get any


----------



## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*



			
				hinch said:
			
		

> frozen bloodworm is fine darrel at least I've never had any problems and the fishies love it the l14's grab a cube each and sit on it  so nobody else can get any



Ive never had issues with frozen bloodworm either.  Darrel: Any particular reason you feel it should be avoided?


----------



## pariahrob (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Yes, I live in Warminster. I went in and had a good hour chatting to Mike about my tank, my worries and my plans. He is, as you suggest, a top bloke and has given me plenty of food for thought.

I bought some blood worms from him. Frozen so I hope they are ok. I presume they are. He also suggested some wafer thin ham weighted down just before lights out tonight, so I'm going to give that a go too. Just simple ham, no honey or anything.

Mike is also a Sera dealer and I've heard lots of good feedback about their products.

Another interesting point he made is about our local water. His experience is that, while it does fluctuate, it is on the harder side. He sells RO water but he recommended taking rain water from a water butt as an alternative. He did say it's frowned upon but then I appreciate him not trying to make a quick buck.

All in all a good afternoon. We spent some time looking at info online and it seems Marvin is definitely an L120. I showed Mike a photo. In his opinion he looks thin but not too bad but he did say the stress on a wild caught fish being moved halfway round the world and then from shop to me might put him off his food for a bit.

While I am still concerned I am grateful that I have some more avenues to investigate. I'll see if he goes for ham or bloodworm tonight and tomorrow I'll do a partial change to RO water to reduce the hardness. Lets hope my twisted vallis doesn't ming too much!

If after a couple of hours he doesn't go for the ham I can easily remove it, however if he doesn't touch the bloodworms how do I remove them? Or are they safe to leave in? I imagine they're a bit big for the CPDs.

In other news I have a berried Sakura. I've been meaning to sort out a shrimp tank. Now I really should get on it. I was going to go for the easy route of a Fluval Ebi or an AquaSpace but the temptation to get a little cube garden and go all ADA is calling me! I'm sure a plastic bucket with moss and old tank water would be ok too but you know how it is!

Once again thanks to everybody for ideas and advise (and reminders that Marvin likes a good bit of meat!).


----------



## Antipofish (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Rob if you are going to continue using RO all well and good, but the shrimp, I believe, prefer consistency rather than fluctuation in hardness (from something I was reading a couple of weeks back).  You can syphon uneaten bloodworm out if necesary.  The ham, I think you can safely leave in overnight.  I cant see how it would deteriorate in that timeframe.  It takes 24hours for cucumber to disintegrate so ham would take longer.


----------



## pariahrob (2 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

After talking to Mike about our local water I think I might well go for 50 50 RO/Tap water, as we are on the harder end of hard.  Apparently this is due to the proximity of salisbury plain which is made of chalk.

Another interesting nugget he had was that we barely have any chorine or chloramines added here. For smaller water changes he said I probably don't even need to treat the tap water. Saying that I probably will for peace of mind.

Thanks Chris. I'll leave the ham in then. Give him chance to have a good munch while it's dark. Fingers crossed for him please!


----------



## pariahrob (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Morning all,

well it seems to me that things aren't so good. Marvin didn't touch the ham at all and I'm pretty sure he hasn't touched the blood worm either.
I've been boiling a piece of boxwood to put in. I know there are differing opinions on exactly what species he is but I feel like it's worth trying as many things as I can to make him comfortable.

I've been told by some that a bit of algae of the glass is all he might eat for a few weeks but that doesn't seem like enough to keep him healthy.

Am I being silly? 

Mike from Amazon suggested that it could be a bacterial infection. I think this might be a possibility too but I really don't have the experience to know that.

I wonder if I should ask the guys I bought him from to take him back, as he looked healthy in their tank and was eating. Just to see if there is a factor I've not taken into account. Or will that stress him more?


----------



## sarahtermite (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

I'm really sorry to hear that, Rob. I'm not an expert on catfish, but a couple of things spring to mind (and sorry if they're a bit on the obvious side). You say he was feeding at the place where you got him - what did they feed him? And secondly, I really would try earthworms - you should be able to find some small wrigglers quite easily in your own garden (presuming you don't use a lot of pesticides). I hope you manage to get him plump and healthy, he's such a lovely fish.


----------



## awtong (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi Rob how can you tell he hasn't eaten any bloodworm?  my plec's tend to eat the individual worms and it must be tricky for you to tell if he has eaten a few worms if they are scattered about?.  

I would not say you are being silly at all by trying to care and provide for your fish.  I would say this is commendable!

In my tank I have plenty of wood and all 7 of my plecs like to hide or burrow around a piece of wood so your idea of adding some might help him to settle.  When I read you were putting in ham I was a little skeptical about it but anything is worth trying.  I have not tried worms as Sarah suggests but they would be a cheap, fresh and available food source so I may have to try this myself.  I have always used frozen mussel as a meatier food for them.

Another way of looking at this would be to look for poop evidence.  If you have no other fish of the same size could you tell if he had pooped and then this would indicate he was eating maybe?  This is a weird idea but I am trying to look at it outside of the box!

Unless he has physical signs of infection it is going to be virtually impossible to diagnose and treat any type of illness.

Keep trying!

Andy


----------



## dw1305 (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,
Rob, I live in Corsham, so I'm not far away and I've always used rain-water without any problem. To check the water I use the _Daphnia_ bio-assay  from this thread <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopi...09411&hilit=darrel+rain+water+daphnia#p209411> . 


> Another interesting nugget he had was that we barely have any chorine or chloramines added here


Certainly true of our water, it has very little in the way of nitrates either (about 10mg/l), suggesting it is from a very deep aquifer. All the water is very hard here, as all the aquifers are either limestone or chalk, and you will find even the rain-water is relatively well buffered (probably from atmospheric dust). I use 100% rain-water in the summer, and in the winter I just cut it with a small amount of tap. See this thread <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21309&start=10> for a bit more explanation.

You should be able to get water parameters for your tap supply from Wessex Water (assuming they're your supplier).
from <http://www.wessexwater.co.uk/customers/threecol.aspx?id=1352&linkidentifier=id&itemid=1352>
You need to put your post-code in the box. Our water supply (SN13 9AR) is described as "Zone 41 Fiveways water supply zone".



> Marvin didn't touch the ham at all and I'm pretty sure he hasn't touched the blood worm either.........I've been told by some that a bit of algae of the glass is all he might eat for a few weeks but that doesn't seem like enough to keep him healthy.


Just keep giving him the crushed snails and try an earthworm like Sarah suggests, I'd try either prawn or mussel as well. Whoever keeps on telling you about them eating bog-wood or algae just ignore them, they don't know what they are talking about. 


> Mike from Amazon suggested that it could be a bacterial infection.


 It could be that or internal parasites, but we have no reason to treat for either at present. Just try and keep the water quality high and offer a range of foods, my suspicion would be that he will start eating normally and then things will be fine.

cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305 (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hi all,
Sorry Andy, didn't see your post, or I would have just said "_I agree with Andy_".

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

First off. Thank you everybody.

Today has been a mixed bag. I pootled off to pick up a little nano tank for shrimp. I have some in the 60-P that are berried and I think I need a home for them. So all good until I got home.

Marvin had died. I took him to Amazon for Mike's opinion and he felt that the fish hadn't eaten for a long time but couldn't be sure of the reason. SO, I took him back to Acres where I bought him and was faced with a mix of attitudes from various staff there. I took a vial of tank water along with me and they had a look at that. All fine. One guy wa great. Tried to come up with theories on what had happened and how I can try and prevent anything in future.
Another guy was less useful. No empathy at all and I felt he was thinking 'it's just a fish' which I didn't care for.
Anyway, I spoke to the boss, who is the aquarium expert there and he inspected Marvin quite throughly. He said he could see evidence of a parasite, as the anus was looking odd and he thought he could see some kind of worm.

So, I'm now feeling a bit deflated but at least I am sure I asked the right questions and did what I could. One thing I am sure of is that Mike at Amazon is really incredibly helpful and I think from now on I will be giving him my money.

His plant look incredible and his tanks are really quite lovely. Only a small shop but great stock and all crystal clear.

Thanks again for all your help. I really do appreciate it.

I'm off for a whisky to pay my respects.


p.s On the plus side I do have a new aquaspace to scape. I'll start a new journal for that one.


----------



## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (new week 3 photos)*

Hey Rob, sorry to hear that. He was a handsome looking fish.  You did as much as you could though, and it seems there would have been nothing you could have done in any case.


----------



## pariahrob (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

I decided to not mope about feeling rubbish about things but get back on the horse and keep at it. I had a delivery today from TGM which I had forgotten about. Superge, a lily pipe cleaning brush and a black background (which is ADA, not what I expected).

I've wanted to test out a black background for a while so that's what I decided to do. First up I removed the frosted background. I still have a load left so can revert if I need to.



Then flattened out the black roll. For now it is just held in place by the light supports, while I decide if I prefer it or not. 



Not the best photo and there are a lot of bubbles after a water change (remove any nasties from the dead fish) the DC was just refilled and I cleaned the diffuser, so all a bit cloudy.

I quite like the pic without a background. Maybe not in this room but I like seeing through the tank. Overall though I like the black. Helps to focus on the scape and the darkness brings out the colours. Really helps to get a nice exposure too, even with this crappy photos.

Once I decide for real and get it on properly I'll do a decent shoot.

Feeling happier now I've been pro-active. Will do more tomorrow, as well as start the nano!


----------



## awtong (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Sorry about Marvin I know what its like to lose a very nice plec after I lost my green phantom during a tank change over.  You really tried to offer variety of food and good quality water / nice environment.  You sought advice and tried to sort him out but it sounds like it was out of your hands.  

On another note I think the black makes the scape pop.

Andy


----------



## Antipofish (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

That result has inspired me sufficiently to retry a black background on mine too Rob !  Nice one.


----------



## sarahtermite (3 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

RIP Marvin. Very sad news, but you did what you could for him. 

I'm also liking the black background. Makes your plants glow! Although I do also love being able to see through a tank - feels more contemporary?


----------



## awtong (4 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

I can see where you are coming from with that Sarah.  I have a white wall behind my tank and like to be able to see through it.  I also think a black background on a 450l Juwel would be too much.  I think it really works on these smaller tanks though.  

Rob I think it will look even better once it is properly attached.

Andy


----------



## dw1305 (4 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Hi all,


> Sorry about Marvin I know what its like to lose a very nice plec ........ You really tried to offer variety of food and good quality water / nice environment.


Same sentiments really, I was always worried about him. PM me if you are interested in getting another one, I know a breeder in S. Bristol who has some similar (L004) _Hypancistrus_ fry, but you would need to pick them up from Stockwood.

cheers Darrel


----------



## pariahrob (4 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Thanks Darrel. I might take you up on that in the future.

I thought I'd have a nice fresh start today and popped in to Amazon to pick up some plants for the nano I started today. While sorting substrate and bogwood I used the 60-P as a holding tank:



Then I noticed something. Damn whitest on the danios! Back to Amazon and they are now treated with a half dose of sera protazol. I was advised to veer from the instructions to reduce stressing the fish. So a half dose and 4 water changes, one every four hours, starting tomorrow morning. I dosed around 5ish this evening.

Mike is getting me some black widows but they will have to stay with him until I'm happy this is all cleared up.

Question: The black background highlights all the tiny bubbles in the tank. Is there a way to reduce them? I guess some are CO2 but not all I don't think.

Cheers


----------



## Antipofish (4 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Hey Rob.  IMO That cabomba is too much placed where it is.  Needs to be right at the back if its not to dominate the scape. And as far as adding more fish goes, i would urge you NOT to add any for a couple of weeks mate.  Esp if things are in sufficient state that you have a WS outbreak.  If you have carbon in any of your filter/s you need to remove it whilst treating.


----------



## pariahrob (4 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Thanks Chris. The cabomba was only in there for a bit. I got it for my nano. Same with the others although I might keep one sag' in the 60-P. 

No worries. I've removed my carbon already but thanks for the reminder. 
I actually doubt I'll put it back. I may get some more floss though. 

The black widows will be a while. I'm not adding anything til I'm sure the tank is good again.


----------



## sarahtermite (5 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

First Marvin, and now whitespot - you're not having much luck at the moment, despite your best efforts. <sympathy>

But it sounds like you're getting on top of things, and I'm sure these are just teething problems.


----------



## Antipofish (5 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks Chris. The cabomba was only in there for a bit. I got it for my nano. Same with the others although I might keep one sag' in the 60-P.
> 
> No worries. I've removed my carbon already but thanks for the reminder.
> I actually doubt I'll put it back. I may get some more floss though.
> ...



Good stuff, thats for the best.  Its just niggling things mate, nothing to worry about.  The tank itself is going great guns so definitely nothing to panic about.  Just as you said, give it a while to restore and settle before adding more things.  Personally, I would include plants in that now.  Just sort out your maintenance and ferts/CO2 regime the way you want it and that works for the tank and let it run for a few weeks.  

I am gonna get some black background and give it a go for mine today I think   Have a great weekend.


----------



## pariahrob (5 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Cheers Chris!
With that in mind any ideas on my Cuba? It's starting to look just a little yellow. I did have a day without any CO2 as I ran out but would that really impact so quickly?

I'm still daily dosing ADA green brighty step 1 and I have good flow all round the tank. 
Lights are on for 8 hours (possibly too long) and are 2 x 25w T5 at 10" above the water. 
CO2 is regular. Drip check gets to a good on the yellow side of green by 11am. I turn it off an hour before lights off. 

Only change recently has been the death of marvin and my sera white spot treatment. I've done 3 25% water changes in the last day, as part of the treatment. 

Any thought most welcome. Carpet is almost filled in and I'd hate to lose it!


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Doing water changes during the day, especially three of them, will have caused fluctuating levels of CO2.  This, plus the day of NO CO2 could have caused the problem.... depending on when you saw the yellowing begin of course.. because if it started before these issues you could logically say they were not the cause.  Im not expert though so hope someone else adds a comment.


----------



## pariahrob (6 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

OK, that must be it then. I'm surprised it had such an effect in such a short space of time. Should I up the CO2 injection or frets for a couple of days to help them repair themselves?

The large pale leafed plant at the back to the right. Ok I can't remember it's name and I can't divide if I like it. Either at all or in that position.

I'm open to ideas for it or a replacement. I'm liking more thin leafed/grassy plants in this tank and this thing is quite dominant. I have the twisted valid next to it but that isn't too happy at the moment. Almost definitely due to the addition of RO water in my opinion.

Hit me with suggestions of alternatives and if you give me a good one and want the plant I have then it's yours for postage costs.


----------



## pariahrob (6 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

While doing a water change and checking out state of the tank I spotted this on the side glass. Excuse the phone photo but I couldn't get round there with the DSLR. It's about 8mm top to bottom and looks like bubbles but I guess it's eggs of some kind.
Any idea what?



Look at my poor vallis in the background!


----------



## Ady34 (6 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Hi Rob, looks like snails eggs!


----------



## pariahrob (6 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Ha! Cheeky buggers. Talk about doing it out in the open!

Cheers.


----------



## pariahrob (7 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 4 - RIP Marvin)*

Not doing a huge amount to the tank at the moment, while it settles after the whitespot outbreak. So far so good. No visible signs any more and all the spots are now gone. The Sera meds I used seemed to work overnight and that was a half dose!

Anyway, I did a little light pruning today and then sat and watched everything for a bit. I must say I'm very happy with how everything is coming along. The yellowing of the HC is still there but lessened now I think. I have changed the position of my diffuser to what I think is a better place, flow wise but we shall see.

I usually let my shrimp just get on with it. They are all doing well. The sakura are growing rapidly (I've found a few moltings recently), the rillies just carry on regardless and the amanos are developing well too. In fact they spent some time today getting very close to the front of the tank so I grabbed a couple of photos. 

These guys are now bigger than the danios!





Considering the fact that there was no set up involved these pictures came out pretty well. I might post them over in the photo threads as well.


----------



## pariahrob (8 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

This where all the algae has been hiding!


----------



## Ady34 (8 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Better there than anywhere else!


----------



## sarahtermite (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> This where all the algae has been hiding!



Eeeuw. Did you manage to get it all off?


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Yeah, all came off very easily. I dunked for 30 minutes in an ADA superge solution. Good stuff! Looks like new again now.

I need to do my lily pipes next. That might be a trickier task but I have faith!


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Yeah, all came off very easily. I dunked for 30 minutes in an ADA superge solution. Good stuff! Looks like new again now.
> 
> I need to do my lily pipes next. That might be a trickier task but I have faith!



Removing filter tubing from lily pipes is the one thing currently putting me off buying them.  Is there a trick to it Rob ?  The tubing I had was stuck fast to the hose adaptor of my last filter and I worry that trying to rip it off a flimsy glass tube might be somewhat more dangerous (and costly) than removing it from a plastic hose adaptor.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

I'm hoping they will slide off without too much force being needed. I used a tiny amount of petroleum jelly and some heat to get them on. The idea is that just some heat should help to remove them.

If it is any more difficult that that I may fit some quick release taps just below the glass, to aid future removal and refitting.

I might give this a go this afternoon actually. I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I'm hoping they will slide off without too much force being needed. I used a tiny amount of petroleum jelly and some heat to get them on. The idea is that just some heat should help to remove them.
> 
> If it is any more difficult that that I may fit some quick release taps just below the glass, to aid future removal and refitting.
> 
> I might give this a go this afternoon actually. I'll let you know how it goes!



OK mate I would be interested to know.  Be careful and i hope you mean warming heat and not direct heat from a blowtorch, LOL.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Nah, I was going to stick the whole lot on the hob!

I think a hairdryer should do the trick.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Right then, rather just a bit of blurb like 'i cleaned my glass' I thought I'd show how I did it. 

First off when I changed my plastic in/out pipes to glass I added either a touch of olive oil or petroleum jelly to the ends of the glass. I can't remember which but either will work. This was to aid removal for cleaning. Today is the first time I've cleaned them.

1. Get supplies together. I had a bucket, superge, a spring brush and a towel handy.

2. Turn off your filter! Sounds obvious but it's the sort of thing that is easy to overlook. This applies to inline heaters as well. I use a hydor inline, so turned that off too.

3. Use a finger nail to prise back the edge of the hose. Doesn't need to be much. Just enough to break the seal that may have built up. It's worth warming the hoses a little too. Nothing too excessive but some warmth will help. I used a hairdryer for about 20 seconds keeping it moving.

4. Hold the hose firmly and twist the glass. You should feel the seal break and then the glass should move quite freely. Be ready with a towel as you may get some leakage when you remove it. The filter pressure might cause some return through the inlet pipe. I quickly attached my old plastic inlet which hooked over the side of the tank. 
If you have a particularly dirty lily pipe you may need a longer soak, in which case you can use the old plastic in/out to run the filter.



5. Take your glassware to the sink and inspect for cracks or breakages. There shouldn't be any but this is a good time for a once over. you can also get a better look at any algae or grime that has built up. Mine isn't really too bad but even small amounts can spoil the looks of glassware.



6. Mix up your cleaning solution. I'm using ADA superge, which I think is quite heavy in chlorine (more on that later). This is a simple one cap to a litre and I used 2 litres in a bucket and let it soak for ten minutes. While this was soaking I used my pipe brush to clean the visible ends of the filter hoses.

BEWARE! I did this not thinking that when I turned the filter back on all the dross I'd scraped from the hose would be shot straight into the tank. Luckily I had a net handy and I managed to catch most of it. That means you will have some nasties floating about for a while. Best thing is to do a water change and hoover the substrate.

7. Take your brush and give the insides of the lily pipe a good going over. Resist the urge to remove the brush and rinse too early. You'll be washing away the cleaning solution. You want to keep that in there and use the brush to work it into any stubborn areas, like so:




8. Once your happy remove the brush and rinse thoroughly. If you think it's clean and rinsed, rinse it again! The change the water in your bucket and add a heavy dose of dechorinator. Cleaning products can be quite nasty so this is important, or you may end up destroying all those good bacteria and having to cycle again (meaning your fauna will need a holiday). It's worth running through with normal tap water for a few minutes too, just to make sure you've cleared any solution out fully. Then a final dunk in dechlorinated water.



9. Refit the pipes back to the hoses, not forgetting to add a little olive oil or jelly to the ends for next time.
Set everything back up and be ready with a net to catch all the gunk from the outlet. Alternatively you could drain the hoses and filter and give everything a good clean and make a day of it. 

10. Everything should be back to looking new and lovely. It's amazing how different clean glassware makes your tank look.



I hope this is of some use to somebody. I was hesitant about certain parts, so if this is an aid in any way then great!

Cheers all

Rob


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

And here are a couple of FTS. More as a record keeping measure than anything. I'm getting rid of the hygrophila on Friday and swapping it for something more grassy and in keeping with the rest of the tank. I wanted to do something that was pleasing on the eye but also as nice for the fish as I could reasonably get it and the CPDs and Black Widows that are on order are apparently both from gently flowing flooded grassland/rivers.

Or maybe I'm justifying the change to myself. Either way I think it will be better. 

Now count the shrimp. There are a fair few in there. I need my shrimp tank to cycle faster!

In situ. Hoses still look a bit grubby!




And a FTS with a different crop. Not sure which I prefer. What do you think?



These photos make the carpet look better than it really is. There are still a few noticeable gaps but it is filling in. Still a little yellow. I've upped CO2 a little to counter that.


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

would ADA green brighty help with colouration or is the cause totally non related  ? Its just a product I have heard of as opposed to having used.  Is looking great though Rob  Congrats.  Think the Blyxa looks out of place.  Send it my way.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

To be honest I'm not sure but I think it might be worth  trying, just in case it isn't CO2 related. Probably worth ordering some and giving it a shot.

Unless anybody has a better idea? Plants all look quite healthy, just not as green as they should. A little melting here and there but not much any more.


----------



## greenink (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> And a FTS with a different crop. Not sure which I prefer. What do you think?



I like being able to see the underside of the surface in the top one, but like the the tank without wallpaper shot. So a combination!



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> These photos make the carpet look better than it really is. There are still a few noticeable gaps but it is filling in. Still a little yellow. I've upped CO2 a little to counter that.



The drop checker (from what I can see) could still go quite a bit. If you're getting any melting then it's still CO2 problems...


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Thanks Mike. I agree about the cropping. Wouldn't show the grubby pipes either!

Funny, the DC does look bit darker in these shots. It's almost lime in the flesh. Or maybe I need to drop something white behind it to help me see it more clearly. I'll do that now, just to be on the safe side.

Cheers!


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks Mike. I agree about the cropping. Wouldn't show the grubby pipes either!
> 
> Funny, the DC does look bit darker in these shots. It's almost lime in the flesh. Or maybe I need to drop something white behind it to help me see it more clearly. I'll do that now, just to be on the safe side.
> 
> Cheers!



Get one of those fancy gUSH ones that hangs outside


----------



## Broomy (9 May 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Stunning tank, really like that.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

I thought about one of those but while they look nice they don't give much scope for moving around or testing at different depths.


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Thanks Broomy! That made my day!


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I thought about one of those but while they look nice they don't give much scope for moving around or testing at different depths.



Once you have worked out your CO2 rate of injection that point is mute.  AND you can always use a spraybar clip to stick the external gUSH anywhere you want it internally during the testing phase


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Are you on commission?


----------



## Antipofish (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Are you on commission?



LOL Nope.  But I am practically broke now so I thought I would start spending other people's money and enjoy it vicarioulsy !!


----------



## pariahrob (9 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

I know that feeling. I've got to stop ordering ADA and start up on the DIY!

I've got to save pennies for when the 120cm arrives too! Maybe I'll make that a birthday present. Hmm, get her to agree before she sees the price.


----------



## awtong (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I've got to save pennies for when the 120cm arrives too! Maybe I'll make that a birthday present. Hmm, get her to agree before she sees the price.



 love this post.  Nothing like a little guidance for the significant others to make sure gifts are correct!!

Andy


----------



## sarahtermite (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> pariahrob said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Excellent plan, Chris!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				sarahtermite said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Me too, thats why i convinced my housemate he needed macro and UWA lenses which just happen to fit mine too   

Tanks coming along well mate, you should be chuffed.


----------



## pariahrob (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Chris, you can window shop for me any time you like.

Thanks everybody. I'm chuffed to bits that you're liking my first planted tank! Big(ish) changes tomorrow. The hygrphila is going, to be exchanged for something a bit grassier. I'm doing an exchange with Mike from Amazon, who I also have ordered my black widows through. I'm not in a hurry to get them so if they aren't in that's absolutely fine. 
Still waiting for the nano to cycle. I want to get the cherries in there and breeding!

Thanks again!


----------



## Antipofish (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Chris, you can window shop for me any time you like.
> 
> Thanks everybody. I'm chuffed to bits that you're liking my first planted tank! Big(ish) changes tomorrow. The hygrphila is going, to be exchanged for something a bit grassier. I'm doing an exchange with Mike from Amazon, who I also have ordered my black widows through. I'm not in a hurry to get them so if they aren't in that's absolutely fine.
> Still waiting for the nano to cycle. I want to get the cherries in there and breeding!
> ...



Even if those fish are in Rob, you really must think about leaving it for at least another week.  I know its tough but I believe filters are reactive and need time to settle after a problem before being placed under more strain   Will you buy whatever I window shop ? lol.  Which Hygro is it that you are getting rid of  ?  Its not pinitafida is it  ?  (i am being too lazy to look back at the pics at the moment, having just go back from the allotment and am cream crackered.)


----------



## pariahrob (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

Yep, I've already had that chat with him about it. I'm tempted to wait another week too. I'll see what he says but I'm sure he won't mind.

It's the one I can't remember the name of, with the silver on the underside of the leaves. It's grown so fast! I knew I was going to get rid, so I let the nodes sprout and pretty sure it would make 30 plants now. It's an attractive plant I just don't think it fits my scape.

I think that very much depends on which windows you are looking in!


----------



## Antipofish (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

U mean the one at the back behind the right hand large rock ? If so I think it adds a good variation on lead structure personally.


----------



## pariahrob (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

ok, so there seems to be a massive difference of opinion on the addition of new fish. If you didn't know I had what seemed to be a whitest problem but I treated it with sera protazol. The few spots were gone over night and I've not seen any signs since. No rubbing or anything. It's been a week now.

So, I was a little concerned about adding new fish and Chris reminded me of those concerns above, as my oder of black widows may arrive tomorrow. I've spoken to a few people about it and the main suggestions are:

1. Don't add anything for another week, to be sure it's all gone

2. Add the fish and take them straight from the supplier. Don't have them put into the LFS tanks first.

3. Add the fish but give them 48 hours in the LFS tanks.

The most convincing argument I've heard is option1. Take the fish but reduce their stress by having them straight into my tank, so they only have to acclimate once. It was suggested to increase the temperature of my tank as well. Up by a few degrees.  I'm a little unsure but if you have opinions I'd appreciate hearing them. I'd like to go and talk to Mike at Amazon with some ideas and knowledge. I trust his opinion and experience. His tanks are all immaculate and he appears to have huge passion for the hobby, rather than be a shop keeper.

Anyway, I may go with what he suggests but please do give me your thoughts. Last thing I want to do is cause any fish any problems.


----------



## pariahrob (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*

That's the one Chris. Sorry, it's going. I think something grassier looking or a pogostemon erectus would look best.


----------



## Antipofish (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 5)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> That's the one Chris. Sorry, it's going. I think something grassier looking or a pogostemon erectus would look best.



You got quite a lot of grassy stuff.  Pogo. Erectus would be very nice though.


----------



## pariahrob (10 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Yeah, I'm thinking that too. I'm a fan of the grass and the danios seem to like it as well.


----------



## pariahrob (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

The verdict is in and I am sure that leaving it another week is probably for the best, for a few reasons. WHich means this weekend will be all about pruning existing plants, removing the polysperma and replacing it with something new.

I'm debating wether a pellia might look good somewhere, possibly better in the nano though. I haven't quite decided yet but will probably move some of the sagg to this tank to fill out some other areas and put some pellia in the nano. I have some weeping moss and quadicostatus coming from Piece-of_Fish too. weeping for the nano and the quad for this tank.

Looks like a busy weekend ahead. Will be popping along to the other LFS to check out plant delivery as well. Hoping for some blyxa, HC and the pogo erectus.

Whoever said this was a hobby for the tinkerer was spot on!

If I don't get too carried away I'll take some before, during and after photos too.


----------



## pariahrob (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Busy afternoon today. I popped over to Amazon Aquatics, partly to see if the black widows have arrived. They have and they look fantastic. Very bright, with nice dark skirts. They are still young and only about an inch as of yet. I chatted to Mike and he is happy to keep hold of them for me, so I'll be picking them up the tail end of next week.

Mike and I had arranged to do a plant exchange, so he got my polysperma and I got some liverwort for the nano. Quite a big batch of mono selenium tenerum. Check out my fencepost journal if you're interested. I'll add pictures later.

Popped over to my other LFS to see what they had in. Lot's of variety. A fair few mosses, some nice like parvula, an assortment of plants they couldn't identify, including something I picked up.
First is, I'm pretty sure, a ceratopteris thalictroides. I've seen these grow right up out of the surface and it's tempting to let it do so.

Next one is the pogostemon erectus that I was hoping for. Looking really healthy too, with a pale pickles to the tallest parts.

Had a bit of a swap around. No more blyxa unfortunately (that's next week) but pretty much fully planted and all to my liking.

For now.

Anyway here are before and after shots. Nothing fancy but gives an idea of how the scape is coming along. Looking forward to next week and getting the skirts in there!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us





Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Somehow, without the polysperma dominating the middle the tank looks bigger and has a better visual flow.


----------



## Antipofish (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I cant believe the change that makes.  Really nice Rob.  Love the plant in place of the Polysperma.  Is that the Pogostemon Erectus ?


----------



## pariahrob (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Yeah, that's the pogo. three of them for a bit of asymmetrical balance.

Thanks. It does make a difference doesn't it. I'm very pleased. The difference in focal length plays a part but the plants really work much better now.

Cheers!


----------



## sarahtermite (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I much prefer your new planting, Rob. It all looks more to the same scale to me now. 

Bet your looking forward to getting your new fish.     But don't call them 'skirts'! So disrespectful


----------



## Antipofish (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Rob I am wondering if you remove the Blyxa from the middle between the two rocks, and also that little bit of Pogostemon, and let your carpet cover what you remove, if it might lead the eye further back and create a bigger sense of depth.  

Anyone else's thoughts on that ?


----------



## pariahrob (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Possibly, although that would leave a blank space there with plain black background.


----------



## Antipofish (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Possibly, although that would leave a blank space there with plain black background.



Thus creating the illusion that the path leads on to infinity...


----------



## pariahrob (11 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I get you. I'll photoshop the last photo and test it out.


----------



## deepak267 (12 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

your tank looks awesome. thanks for posting the step-by-step progress.


----------



## Seagull (12 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Looks great - I wish I could aquascape like that  I have been thinking of setting up a nano shrimp tank similar to this actually, what carpet plant is that?


----------



## pariahrob (12 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Thanks guys. The carpet is a bit of a mix. It's mostly hemianthus callitrichoides. When I started the tank I planted a lot of glossostigma elatinoides but it all melted, so I planted the HC but now the glosso is growing back, so the carpet is both. Looks quite nice but does need looking after. I lost a day of CO2 not long ago and it really showed, with some yellow leaves. It's almost recovered but that was a shock.
I does ADA green bright step 1 every day as well. I now have a bottle of easycarbo to hand n case of any future CO2 issues.

I also have a nano that I'm going to keep only shrimp in. I wasn't planning on it being too high tech. Mostly mosses and simple easy to look after plants. I've planted a simple HC plantlet in it just out of curiosity. Seems ok but no spreading as of yet.

Not done much today, as first sunny day in weeks, so roof down and headed for the coast!


----------



## pariahrob (12 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Ok, so after Chris suggested a way to lead the eye through the scape I knocked up this rough and ready photoshopped pic to try it out.

What do you think?


----------



## Antipofish (12 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I think it adds even more depth to the scape than I imagined it would.  Very impressed even if I say so myself.


----------



## pariahrob (14 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I'm seriously tempted to give this a go now. I think I held back because I often view the tank close up while I'm working on it.
When I step back or look at the photos a pathway makes much more sense. Still a bit of gravel back there, which would need removing and replacing with aqua soil.

Problem there though. If I add more amazonia will I get an ammonia spike? Do I need to soak leave it in a bucket for a while first?

Now look what you started Chris!


----------



## Antipofish (14 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I would soak the amazonia you are going to use for at least a week, changing the water twice a day


----------



## pariahrob (15 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

I thought it might be time to take stock and list what I have as things stand today. I may end up moving this to page one, as a living index but it can live here while I think about it.

Hardware:

DIY cabinet 60 x 30 x 70 cm (WxDxH)
ADA Cube Garden 60-P 
Fluval CO2 system with glass diffuser, J pipe and glass check valve
gUSH lily pipes
Rena XP2 filter, with some fluvial ceramic media and API ammonia pouch. Carbon removed.
Hydor in line heater 250W
Arcadia T5 luminaire (2 plant pro bulbs)

Hardscape and substrate:

ADA power sand special
ADA bacter 100
Penac P
Penac W
ADA amazonia aquasoil. About 6kG normal (type 2), with 2KG powder type on top.
Dragonstone

Flora

Hemainthus Callitrichoides
Glossostigma Elatinoides
Pogostemon Erectus
Pogostemon Helferi
Saggitarius
Alternanthera Reineckii
Eleocharis Parvula
Blyxa Japonica
Vallisneria Spiralis

Fauna

6 Cherry shrimp
4 Rillie shrimp
6 Amano Shrimp
10 Celestial Pearl Danios
As many nerite snails as I can't find (they're like gremlins - so not good as always wet!)

Regular treatments

ADA Green Brighty Step 1
CO2 at 2bps (slightly lime drop checker)

I think that is it for now. I'll keep this updated and move it to page one. I'm planning a proper photo session with this at the weekend, once I pick up the black widows. Time for a good clean all round, remove all the hardware and get some nice shots, now it's all filling out nicely.


----------



## sarahtermite (15 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank (week 6)*

Useful summary, Rob. And it'll be nice to see the tank and your beautifully crafted cabinet together.


----------



## pariahrob (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie' (week 6)*

Thanks Sarah, I'll do my best to make it look ok! It's not the best DIY I've ever seen but it does the job.

Well, a day early but I'm off to pick up my black widow tetras in a bit. I had to swap the days I work at home, so today is the day! Quite excited about it. I'll let them acclimatise and then snap a few pictures once they are all in. I'm going for six for now.


----------



## sarahtermite (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*

Whoop! Whoop!


----------



## pariahrob (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*

Right then. Update time.

Picked up 6 Black Widow Tetrass, from Amazon Aquatics. They've been held there for me for nearly a week and it's great to finally have them. He ordered in more but I am undecided if I will have more yet and even if I do I'll leave it a while and let the tank settle.

They are good looking fish, seem to bunch and shoal nicely but are happy zipping around the tank investigating. The CPDs looked a bit put out at first but are now out and about, not hiding in their 'room'.

Here are a couple of shots of them:






and a FTS to see them in situ. The tank is looking pretty good. I have a few plants coming soon and when they arrive I will be doing some moving. Nothing heavy, just tidying up a few areas and making the scape a little more structured. The glass needs a good clean near the substrate as well, so the weekend will be maintenance heavy and then some decent photos.

I'm very happy with the scape so far. Plants all doing pretty well and filling in nicely. 



Comments, criticisms or suggestions more than welcome.


----------



## Antipofish (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*

Erm, put that gap back in please !  Fish are looking great.  Good decision not to add any more for a while, but the black widows are a nice fish so it could hold another 6 easily. (but not for a week or two )


----------



## greenink (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*

this just gets better and better. am interested by how much you think having quite a lot of surface flow makes a difference. some people aim for no break of surface tension at all (amano, at least in the day when we can see what he does) whereas you have loads.


----------



## pariahrob (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*

The gap was photoshopped Chris. It was never there for real. Saying that just wait til I get in and make a few moves over the next few days!

Yeah, I'll be waiting a week or so before I add any more. It was suggested that I go for some diamond eye tetras to add some sparkle to the tank. I need to see some for real before I decide.

Thanks Mike, I'm pretty pleased with it. As for the surface tension I prefer having it. Planted tanks seem to produce a lot of surface film and when I had the outlet just under the surface it was building up and looking ugly.
With it just breaking the surface there is no visible film and I think it helps with gaseous exchange, which is good for fish breathing but does mean I probably inject a bit more CO2 than I would otherwise.

Saying that, it does look like I have a lot of surface agitation but it really isn't so much. Most of the flow goes under the surface. The CPDs are always darting around all over the shop but the widows, so far at least, shoal and head into the flow returning off the right side of the tank. Both species prefer a gentler flow and I think I have it just right. There is one small spot that has less flow, just to the front left but it gets some. I've recently moved the filter intake nearer the front which has helped.

Funny about Amano having less surface agitation. His photos often have it, giving that trademark shimmer. I like it all the time. I must shoot a video soon too. Maybe another job for the weekend.

Rob


----------



## greenink (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 6)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Funny about Amano having less surface agitation. His photos often have it, giving that trademark shimmer.



He nicks his wife's hairdryer...


----------



## pariahrob (16 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Hah! That's what I do to loosen tight filter hoses!


----------



## Westyggx (16 May 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

I just got rid of my two black widows at the weekend they were pests and munched all of my shrimp lol.


----------



## HarryRobinson (16 May 2012)

Such an amazing looking tank and fish! Really shows how you can capture a small part of nature and showcase it in the form of an aquascape, inspirational


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Westyggx - really? I'll have o watch out for that then. These guys appear to like sparring amongst themselves but as of yet haven't bothered anything else. Mind you I do have one particularly brave danio. I'm sure he'd see them off. 

Thanks Harry! I'm really glad you like it. Yours is going to look ace too. You've put a lot of thought into it already, even at this early stage.


----------



## sarahtermite (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Looking good, Rob!    What I like about your scape is that it's quite heavily planted (which I suspect your CPDs like, if they're anything like mine!), but you've also retained a sense of space and open-ness.


----------



## Ady34 (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Absolutely stunning first planted tank Rob, plants look super healthy and it has a great fish combo going on there. Love the grassy feel with highlights of colour now and then.
Great work.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Thanks Ady!

I can only take so much credit. The layout is pretty much me but the health of the plants and everything else is as much down to UKAPS. You guys have been super helpful and I've a load and it's only been going 7 weeks! 

Thanks again!


----------



## Mark Evans (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Looking great for a first time.

I would say however, your HC is requiring something. But apart from that, very well done.


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Thanks Mark. What do you have in for the HC?
What do you think needs doing?


----------



## Mark Evans (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

From what I can make out from your image, it appears the type of lilly your using is directing water flow upwards. 

If you look, there are diatoms about 1/2 inches from the bottom. This is telling me that distribution at the lower parts is at a minimum. 

Also, I'd invest in a bit of easy carbo to kick start it.

Let me also say though, you've done a terrific job for a first time scape!


----------



## Mark Evans (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Put the drop checker closer to the substrate. So many people have them way to high to the water level.


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Aha, I'm with you. Actually flow at the bottom isn't too bad. The reason you can see the diatoms is that my magnetic cleaner doesn't quite fit between glass and rock! I should have thought of that before but I've ordered a razor now, so that should help. 
I've got some easycarbo too. Should I combine that with the injected CO2? Full dose of 1ml per 50l a day?

I always mean to move the drop checker around but often forget. Thanks for the reminder. I'll go and do tat now.

I just had a plant delivery too, so am off to do a little reshaping. I'll grab some pictures too.

Thanks again

Rob


----------



## Mark Evans (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

You could dose 5ml per day in a 60L no problem. 

Combined with injected CO2, it'll boost HC like nothing else.


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

5ml a day? Really?
Do you know if that's ok with the fish too?

Thanks!


----------



## Antipofish (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> 5ml a day? Really?
> Do you know if that's ok with the fish too?
> 
> Thanks!



Rob that level will be fine with fish. I use 15ml in my tank which is 3 x your volume. BUT if you are worried, mix it with tank water first so it goes in diluted instead of neat.  My fish associate me being at the tank glass as feeding time, so I have to add my EasyC that way


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Another productive day today. I got a delivery from aqua essentials. A razor for the glass, some shrimp food and a pot of HC. You can tell the new HC from the picture, as it is quite a different colour to what's already in the tank.

First up was a bit of glass cleaning. I've not been able to get right to the substrate until now and it makes a huge difference as you can imagine.

Then on to planting. I moved a few things around. Some pogostemon helferi was moved from hidden areas to fill out a couple of sections I thought could use it. I pulled up some HC and separated it out and replanted too. mostly removed from the front left which I'll be dealing with later.

I took Antipofish's idea of creating a pathway  through the scape and moved some blyxa from the centre back to the front right. There was a bit of saggitaria there too, which I moved to centre left with the other sagg.
Originally I had planted a reineckii at the rear but it didn't sit right with me and need to go to help fit the pathway in. When I uprooted it it looked pretty good so is now just behind the intake, with the other.

The new HC from aqua essentials was split and used to spread the carpet to the back of the tank. There was plenty there so I used some to fill out other areas. I just hope the colour starts to match soon. It was quite tall too but I haven't trimmed it yet. I'll let it bed in a bit first. 

Everything else got a trim where needed and then I spent a while picking bits of parvula out of the other plants. That stuff sticks to everything!

So, plant wise I'm almost done (that may be speaking too soon, I know). Just the front left section to go. My plan here is to plant quite dense quadricostatus. Thanks to Piece-of-Fish on here I have plenty of it, all really healthy looking.

In the morning, I'll split that up and get planting. At the moment it's all chained to the mother plant. I don't like to have just a random chiunk of one species though, so will find a couple of other spots to plant a few as well.

Picture time! Note the danios, who followed my hand round the tank as I worked. The widows all hid but I'm sure they will get used to e. They are less than shy when it's feeding time. Those guys go crazy for the micro pellets. I thought a couple of them were going to leap out of the tank to get them before they hit the water!



Thanks to Chris for the path idea and to piece-of-fish for the plants. Plus aqua essentials should get a thank you for speedy delivery and great looking plants.


----------



## Antipofish (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Looking really swish Rob.  I'm giving out all my ideas and not doing any scaping myself, LOL.  I definitely like that look though.  Be careful not to let the Blyxa on the right creep across and close off the path   I would say you are set with this now.  Are there any adjustments you are still wanting to make ?


----------



## pariahrob (17 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Cheers Chris,

well other than the front left section I'm not sure. I'll do that tomorrow and see how I feel about if afterwards. I expect I'll leave it a for a while and let it settle, although the urge to tinker is quite strong!

That path actually curves round to the left as it gets closer to the back but I think you're right. I'll keep an eye on that.


----------



## pariahrob (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Little update for today. I've planted the quadricostatus now, mostly front left but a little opposite too. Great looking plant and really healthy. Came from a tropic display tank, so not much of a surprise really. I just hope I can continue to keep it healthy!
Started adding easycarbo today as well. I'm going for 3ml dos day, which I'll do for a few weeks to see what the difference is like.

The widows are settling in a little. A couple of them a still quite timid but getting there.

Tomorrow is the big cleanup and photographing day. Looking forward to that but for now here is a quick iPhone shot of the new planting.


----------



## Antipofish (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Rob this really is looking cracking mate   A suggestion if I may... The plant above the blyxa at the right of the path, which is leaning over to the left... I would trim the left most 5 stems towards the right of the tank to open up a V shape at the back of the path (unless it is your intention for it to look like overhanging growth above the dragon stone of course).  Again, try it in photoshop first.  I would be interested to see the result   Gotta love computers, the stuff we can do nowadays.  (Is there a "slimming effect" tool for personal pics ?  hahaha).


----------



## pariahrob (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Well, I was just wondering if I should uproot it and turn it 180 so the tips are bending over the other way. I could trim them but I like the way the colour changes up the stem. Just starting to blush a little too and I think I'd prefer it if all three groups of it matched.

Agreed on emphasising the valley/path though.


----------



## Mark Evans (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

A photshop filter for slimming or fattening....Filter-liquify. Ive had a lot of fun and many many laughs with this filter in photoshop.

i could fin a pic of George and show you....actually, he doesnt need it


----------



## Antipofish (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*



			
				Mark Evans said:
			
		

> A photshop filter for slimming or fattening....Filter-liquify. Ive had a lot of fun and many many laughs with this filter in photoshop.
> 
> i could fin a pic of George and show you....actually, he doesnt need it



Can you find one that makes him fat please !!!  Then one that makes me thin, and merge the pics


----------



## pariahrob (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

Lol. Then you could merge like the two creatures in bill and ted.


----------



## Antipofish (18 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Lol. Then you could merge like the two creatures in bill and ted.


    Im not sure I wanna merge like that with George, nice bloke that he is     But a pic of me looking thin and him looking fat would be most welcome.


----------



## pariahrob (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*

I've just gone out and bought a few sheets of card to test various background colours. This is by far my favourite and is what I shall be going for.
I did a few shots yesterday but nothing special. That's for tonight. Just have to decide on removing glassware or not!



Not a single widow in sight either! They all hid when I replaced the background.


----------



## pariahrob (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7)*



Just testing video settings. Poor quality really but was fun watching this chap eat. I'll shoot some better video this evening.


----------



## sarahtermite (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

What other colors did you try? (Tho I agree this does look smart). And nice to see your happy shrimp.


----------



## pariahrob (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I had a go with blue, blue to white grad, pure white and off white. This grey/green is my favourite. A bit less distracting and not as harsh as black. Easier to photograph too.

Did you get the clips BTW?


----------



## John S (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

This looks great this tank and a good choice of background. Did you see what the background was like if you spun it around so the lighter part was at the top?


----------



## Mark Evans (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Graduated b;ue background can be a pain to photograph. You need a minimum of 12 inches between the background and the tank, to allow light to 'spill' on to the background. Takes plenty of practise.


----------



## pariahrob (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

So true. I used to spend a LOT of time photographing miniatures for Games Workshop and they were all on a blue grad. I prefer this look for this tank I think.

Here's a shot I just took. Shame the widows are still in hiding!


----------



## Piece-of-fish (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Well done   
You are learning really fast. With photography skills in possession I can see you pulling out gems very very soon.
You will be cursing me for sending that quadricostatus soon as well   Will see why in 1-2 weeks.


----------



## pariahrob (20 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Cheers mate!

Well I can always send some back if you like! Or I can forward the love. Great looking plant and v healthy too. 
Thanks again. The weeping moss is very popular with the Sakura in my nano too.


----------



## pariahrob (22 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I think it's time to start thinking about getting a replacement for Marvin. I've done a lot of reading over the last few days and, based on my tank, water and density of plants I think an L129, hypancistrus debiliterra or chocolate zebra is the way to go. They don't need wood, are omnivorous, small and shouldn't uproot my plants.

If anybody has any thoughts on this please let me know.


----------



## awtong (22 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I just added another chocolate zebra after I found a bargain when I was off on my hols last week.  It has taken me over a week before I spotted it again due to all the plants and wood hardscape!!  It is also a fair bit smaller than my other plecs so is probably hiding a bit until it settles.  Lovely little fish and have brilliant character.

I have not kept L129 but they are lovely looking little fish.  

I would think it would be easier to find an L270 than an L129.  

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (22 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Thanks Andy. 
I actually found a L129 locally but I've not decided yet. 
I can't decide if it would better to get a plectrum or a small group of otos. 

Maybe it's the bad experience with Marvin that's making me hesitate...


----------



## awtong (22 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I can understand your hesitation after the trouble you had with Marvin.  How much do the L129's retail for?  I suppose it depends what you want as I suspect a group of Otto's would do much more cleaning of algae etc and would probably be cheaper than a lot of Plec's.  On the other hand an addition of a plec often gives you a fish with bags of character and interest.

I could not own a fish tank without a plec in it anymore it would just not be the same.  

Tank is looking cracking by the way   

Good luck with the decision.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (22 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Yeah, I am on the cusp of getting the L129. They are £24 in Amazon Aquatics/Last Trading Post. He has one about 5cm and a couple nearer 10cm. They grow a bit bigger than that but not much from what I can tell.

Price wise I could get 10 otos for that but, although they are nice, they don't have quite the same wow factor. Mike at Amazon did say the same; that the otos would make a better cleanup crew but I'm not sure that's a deciding factor for me. I don't have much algae anyway. (BTW, I wouldn't get 10. Probably a group of 6 to avoid overstocking).

Thanks! I'm very happy. A few small bumps along the way but overall smooth and am loving having a planted tank. Two month in and it's looking good!

I'll sleep on the decision and unless I can think of, or be told, a good reason to go one way or the other I'll choose in the morning.

Rob


----------



## awtong (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

According to my book L129 max out at 10 -11cm so the larger ones will be nearly full grown.  I like to buy fish a little smaller and bring them on myself.

£24 seems very reasnable.  I picked up my choc zebra last week for £20 but I was lucky they are normall arund £30 - £40.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Well, I've done a bit more reading and I think I'm going with Otos now. I'm planning a 120cm tank later in the year and I think I'll hold off til then before I get a plec. Then I will have more scope for choice as well.

L129 is definitely a nice looking plec, so I may end up still getting one, just not yet.

Andy, how is your chocolate plec doing? DO you see him much? I've read that they are on the shy side, even for a plec.


----------



## dw1305 (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Hi all,


> L129 is definitely a nice looking plec, so I may end up still getting one, just not yet. Andy, how is your chocolate plec doing? DO you see him much?


I think I have 4 of these (L129), but even by creeping up on the tank at night and shining a torch on it, all I ever see is their fast retreating tails. They are even more light phobic than the L333 that is in the tank with them. He has settled in a cave which I can see into, but all the other visible caves are untenanted. I think they must spend their days sleeping under the wood in "the jungle".

Mike may remember them, as he had another 10 juveniles (from me) from the same hatch. 

I did manage to catch one (in its cave) about a year ago and it was a tubby little fellow, but they are about 1/3 the size of the L333 that came with them (stripy _Hypancistrus_ fry are very difficult to ID). They also get a lot browner as they get older, with the lighter stripes thinning right down.

An Ancistrus like _A. claro_ LDA08 would be similarly sized, but a bit more visible during the day. I think all loricariids, even _Otocinclus_, become more nocturnal as they get older.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Antipofish (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

One way to see nocturnal fish is to use a red light as they apparently cannot see that spectrum.  TMS sell a flexible strip of red LED's, but there is a multitude available


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I'd love to have a variety of plecs but that will have to wait til the big tank arrives.
I'd heard of the red light thing as well. In fact I've seen red nets too, which are apparently invisible to fish. No idea how true that is though.

Well, this morning I picked up a group of 6 otos. Settling in now. They seem to shoal nicely but that may be due to them being in a strange environment.

Here's a quick iPhone snap of some:



Pretty much fully stocked now but I'm sure there is plenty to do with the scape and planting.


----------



## awtong (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Well, I've done a bit more reading and I think I'm going with Otos now. I'm planning a 120cm tank later in the year and I think I'll hold off til then before I get a plec. Then I will have more scope for choice as well.
> 
> L129 is definitely a nice looking plec, so I may end up still getting one, just not yet.
> 
> Andy, how is your chocolate plec doing? DO you see him much? I've read that they are on the shy side, even for a plec.



Well out of the 4 types of plec I have kept my Chocolate zebra is the most bold of them all.  She will come out during light on and feed on veg or pellets all the time.  The L134's are much more difficult to spot and the blue phantom just cruises around whenever he feels like it.  The new chocolate zebra came down to feed last night when the lights were still on.  It even had a spat with the blue phantom who is 3-4 times its size and the little one was not going to back down so I was well chuffed.  Didn't expect to see it feed for weeks or even months.  I feed half an hour before main lights out and watch them come out a bit and once the main lights go off I have 2 crappy little marina submersible spot lights which with the room light means I can see all of them out and about feeding.

An example of my C. Zebra and her not being shy.  That wood is only inches from my front glass!!









Sorry for spamming your journal with my pics but this will give you an idea of what the C. Zebra's look like nearly fully grown.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Spam away! You're giving me lots to think about which is good! Great looking fish by the way. Nice to see she isn't too camera shy.
My black widows are mostly still in hiding during the day. Only a couple seem to entire out much. I've just added a couple of floating plants to give a sense of security. I'm not so fond of them for looks but easy to take out for photos.

RR


----------



## awtong (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

It can take a while for fish to settle so I am sure they will settle soon.  Have you decided to add to the group or not?

I think it was a couple of months before the C. Zebra settled and I saw her properly eat etc.  She seemed to come out more once I added the Blue Phantom!  Since then she has been great.  This was my first plec and at the time the most expensive fish I had ever bought.  I have since surpassed it in cost but she is still my favourite.

Plec's would definitely look cracking in the new tank you are planning.

Andy


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I'm sure they will become less shy. They already recognise me as the feeder and do peep out when I'm near the tank. I don't know about adding to them.
Would additions join the group, or start a new 'gang'?


----------



## awtong (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I would expect them to join together into one shoal.  May take a little while for them to settle and establish a pecking order.  I added to my shoal of Congo tetra twice as I didn't want to add them all at once and they all socialise.


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I'll leave it for now and see how they go over the next few weeks I think.

I had a shock today too. A friend's tank burst, so I'm rehoming his cardinal tetras for a couple of days. Hope they don't upset my tank too much. At least there aren't too many of them!

Here's a little video from this evening.


----------



## Antipofish (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

did you stick his filter on your tank too ? thinking about it , i dont know if that would be more trouble than solution to be honest (in terms of when you removed it for example).  i hope the extra load with your ottos PLUS extra cardinals does not push your tank over the limit again mate   You do like living dangerously   LOL  Good on you for helping him out though.  I reckon a bucket, his tank water and his filter/heater might have been another solution.


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I know! What a day to have a disaster!
I did worry about that. I added a little nitrivec in the hope that will boost things a bit. The tank is quite well established though, so fingers crossed.


----------



## Antipofish (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

Nitrivec will help.... A couple of capfuls would be fine


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 7) video*

I added one capful. I think it will be fine but I wanted to give a little boost just to be on the safe side.


----------



## sarahtermite (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Your otos look nicely busy. And good to see your elusive widows! 
Your friend's lucky to have you close; hope all the fish come through ok. Keep up with the water changes (it's my cure for everything!).


----------



## Antipofish (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Great new video.  A hive of activity


----------



## Ady34 (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

not a bad place for the cardinals to end up!, good luck catching them again if your mate wants them back   
They seem to have encouraged your widows out too   
Id have thought with your plant mass there will be no issue with the new stock overloading the filter, your tank is a giant one!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> not a bad place for the cardinals to end up!, good luck catching them again if your mate wants them back
> They seem to have encouraged your widows out too
> Id have thought with your plant mass there will be no issue with the new stock overloading the filter, your tank is a giant one!
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Hi Ady,
this is interesting info.... are you saying that because of the large plant mass, this filters out such a large proportion of the fish waste ?  I am very interested, especially if there is some kind of equation about this.  I have heard that plants use fish waste, but need to get my head round that in terms of EI dosing... surely if we are already "overloading" the plants with ferts in terms if EI dosing then fish waste is also "over and above" what the plants require (or can utilise)? Or doesn't it work like that ?

(Sorry Rob, hope you don't mind me initiating a slight tangent on your thread... I know you like these mini discussions from a learning aspect though, and it looks like I am about to learn yet something new too   )


----------



## pariahrob (23 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

I'm all for the learning!

Besides, if you hijack my thread a little I can learn stuff I might miss elsewhere! 

Bring it on. This is interesting to me too. Mike at Amazon Aquatics was saying something similar the other day.


----------



## Ady34 (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

OH S**T, landed myself in it there..... im no expert but as i understand it plants 'purify' the water by feeding on fish  wastes (ammonia) to a degree, as do their roots from the wastes which settle and work their way into the substrate.  Also significantly the substrate itself acts as a giant biological filter too, homing beneficial bacteria much like the bio media in the canisters we run.... a bit like living rock in marine set ups which can be run without 'filters', just circulation pumps moving water over the living rock. Water moving over and through the substrate naturally through circulation, and via the plant roots, oxgenate it so these aerobic bacteria can thrive.
Waiting to be shot down...
Ady.


----------



## pariahrob (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Ady, that is very nearly word for word what I was told the other day, down to the marine analogy too.

I must search for this aquascaping bible you guys must have hidden away.

It's a conspiracy against newbies, I'm sure of it!


----------



## Antipofish (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Ady, that is very nearly word for word what I was told the other day, down to the marine analogy too.
> 
> I must search for this aquascaping bible you guys must have hidden away.
> 
> It's a conspiracy against newbies, I'm sure of it!



Did the marine analogy also include mention of protein skimmers as a requirement, especially when using just live rock as filtration ?  I remember when I ran a marine tank I had to use a skimmer (ok ok I used a Deltec AP 850, which was a MONSTER of a skimmer for my 4ft tank, LOL, in fact it looked SO SEXY that I had it positioned outside the cabinet to show it off    ), and the skimmer was responsible for removing a large amount of the waste before it got to live rock filtration stage.  So I am wondering how that part of the marine theory applies in freshwater.


----------



## Ady34 (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Did the marine analogy also include mention of protein skimmers as a requirement, especially when using just live rock as filtration ?  I remember when I ran a marine tank I had to use a skimmer (ok ok I used a Deltec AP 850, which was a MONSTER of a skimmer for my 4ft tank, LOL, in fact it looked SO SEXY that I had it positioned outside the cabinet to show it off    ), and the skimmer was responsible for removing a large amount of the waste before it got to live rock filtration stage.  So I am wondering how that part of the marine theory applies in freshwater.


Like i said.... ready to be shot down in flames!.... but it was just an analogy about the filtering effects of in tank medias.... we also tend not to run our high tech planted tanks without filters, so the point was that its about the extra level of filtration that the plants and substrate provide thus aiding our filters, not replacing them.
Cheers,
Ady.


----------



## Ady34 (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Hi Ady,
> this is interesting info.... are you saying that because of the large plant mass, this filters out such a large proportion of the fish waste ?  I am very interested, especially if there is some kind of equation about this.  I have heard that plants use fish waste, but need to get my head round that in terms of EI dosing... surely if we are already "overloading" the plants with ferts in terms if EI dosing then fish waste is also "over and above" what the plants require (or can utilise)? Or doesn't it work like that ?
> 
> (Sorry Rob, hope you don't mind me initiating a slight tangent on your thread... I know you like these mini discussions from a learning aspect though, and it looks like I am about to learn yet something new too   )


In addition to the above, and in reference to the plants being overloaded with the ferts we provide, this is true to an extent, but as i understand it plants prefer the uptake of nitrogen in the form of ammonia, which is in our case 'fish wastes'. When we add more fish to a thriving, established heavily planted tank the ammonia is preferred by the plants to our fertiliser nitrogen sources so they use it up, thus filtering the water of the ammonia without the need for filter bacteria to grow in numbers to cope. Obviously theres no harm in doing extra water changes etc, but planted tanks are better than fish only tanks at coping with extra fish stock. The only reason i know anything about it is because of the tobi's special n fertilizer thread, and its use of urea as a nitrogen source. Some leave out the urea and replace it with other less risky nitrogen fertilisers, but seemingly the plants prefer it direct from the fish...still warm   
Just as an extra more detailed explanation of this, Diana Walstad does it better than me:
http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration.
Hope this helps.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## dw1305 (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Hi all,


> this is interesting info.... are you saying that because of the large plant mass, this filters out such a large proportion of the fish waste ? I am very interested, especially if there is some kind of equation about this. I have heard that plants use fish waste, but need to get my head round that in terms of EI dosing... surely if we are already "overloading" the plants with ferts in terms if EI dosing then fish waste is also "over and above" what the plants require (or can utilise)? Or doesn't it work like that ?


As the others have said this is the right idea. If we just deal with nitrogen (N), you have 3 main sources.


1. The ammonia (NH3) that the aquatic organisms excrete. This isn't an active process, the ammonia continually diffuses from the gills of the fish, shrimp and snails along the concentration gradient from blood to water. Aquatic organisms can excrete ammonia, even though it is extremely toxic, because of the immediate dilution effect of the surrounding water.

2. The break down of protein containing materials by microbial action, which splits the peptide links down into amino acids and eventually ammonia. The protein source could be from old plant leaves, to a very limited degree faeces, and from left over food. If we feed a high protein food we have more potential ammonia from this source.

 3. The nitrate (NO3-) we add as a plant food, usually from the disassociation of KNO3.

The removal of  ammonia has 2 potential routes:


1. Uptake by the plant , and assimilation into proteins.

2. Microbial conversion into NO2 and NO3, a process that also utilises dissolved oxygen (O2) and carbonate (HCO3-) from the water column.

There are then 3 potential routes for removal of NO3- ions:


1. Uptake by the plant, and assimilation into proteins.

2. Dilution by water changes.

3. Anaerobic de-nitrification, and out-gassing as N2 gas.

Plants remove NH3 and NO3 and produce oxygen (O2). The more plants (and oxygen) you have the more NH3 you can deal with. 

This also applies to biological filtration in the filter and oxygenated layers of the substrate, as long as there is sufficient oxygen, and some carbonate hardness, the filter bacteria will increase dependent upon the availability of NH3 and NO2. 

People usually look at filter capacity in terms of the volume of the filter body and the porosity of the filter media, but this is inherently flawed, as the limiting factor for biological filtration in a canister filter is usually dissolved oxygen. This is why trickle filters, with their large gas exchange surfaces, are more efficient at biological filtration. 

In a planted system with a trickle filter, you can both efficiently convert NH3 to NO3, and remove the NO3 by incorporation into plant proteins. In EI the limiting resource would be carbon, so we add CO2. If none of the other resources are limiting, growth is limited by PAR As we ramp up PAR, one or more nutrients will become limiting, so we add more CO2 and nutrients to keep them in balance. 

With apologies for the cross-post, but this relationship between plants/oxygen and filtration is covered more fully in "_Aeration and dissolved oxygen in the aquarium_" - <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Ian Holdich (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

nice vid, you sure have some surface agitation going on there! Have you thought about dropping the outlet during photosynthesis and raising it at lights out? There must be a hell of a lot of C02 loss in there.


----------



## pariahrob (24 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

It is usually a bit lower compared to the surface. I think this stupidly hot weather the last few days has evaporated the water rather faster than I thought. You're right though, there is a lot more agitation than normal. I'm surprised it showed so much in the video. 
Eagle eyes!


----------



## pariahrob (25 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

My carpet has been growing furiously the last couple of weeks and my angled scissors just weren't cutting it (no pun intended), so I ordered some curvy ones from aqua essentials. Good price and very well made. I've bought cheaper tools before from other sources but these are far superior.
Just thought I'd share as this can be an expensive hobby and getting good stuff cheap isn't always easy.


----------



## pariahrob (26 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Took a few photos. No background as I had removed it to clean the tank. Still looks ok though and my plants are almost hiding the supports for the luminaire.
I Still have the damned cardinals in there. Probably for another week til my friend can source a new tank. Everything seems ok so far. Water clarity is great. Not sure if that is the otis keeping the glass clean or the perigean (Thanks Chris) or a combo but looks in great condition.

Black widow Tetra. These guys are coming out in the day a lot more and have lovely mirror-like bellies.



Celestial Pearls Danios. Have been pretty feisty from day one. Lovely little fish.





And th obligatory full tank shot. Have to say I'm loving the tank. Looks vibrant but not garish and all seems to be settling well. Thanks again to everybody who has given encouragement and advise!


----------



## creg (26 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

amazing quality photos, really impressed by that tetra and the stunning colour of the danios


----------



## sarahtermite (26 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Great pics of the CPDs - I'm useless at getting photos of mine, they seem to move way too fast. Kudos to your photographic skills.


----------



## pariahrob (26 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Thanks! The danios look great but are very hard to capture. They are speedy little chaps. The tetras are easier though. I could do with more light really, as the fish shots are a little under exposed but any slower and I'd have a lot of motion blur. I might bring some soft boxes back from work some time and see what I can cobble together.


----------



## Antipofish (27 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Awesome pics ! You must be well pleased with how things are going Rob.  Oh, and its definitely the Purigen, haha.  (The ottos are just keeping the glass clean so you can SEE the gin clear water )


----------



## tim (27 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

stunning tank rob and your journal is a very good read


----------



## pariahrob (27 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Cheers Chris. Those ottos are doing a great job. I didn't need that razor after all! The water definitely looks clearer with the purigen. Well worth it.

Thanks Tim. Glad you like it. I can (and do) happily sit and watch it for ages. It's a very calming tank to watch, except for feeding time. Then the black widows go berserk and pretty much jump out of the water. They are amazingly agile. That's a bonus as they help the micro pellets sink, so the danios get their share.

Who here uses any kind of cooling system on their tank. I was looking at crossflow fans in my LFS and wondered if they are worthwhile. The tank is in the shade but still pushing 26 for some of the afternoon. Not hugely hot I know but it's May, so can only get hotter. Oh, this is England, so maybe it won't.


----------



## Antipofish (27 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Cheers Chris. Those ottos are doing a great job. I didn't need that razor after all! The water definitely looks clearer with the purigen. Well worth it.
> 
> Thanks Tim. Glad you like it. I can (and do) happily sit and watch it for ages. It's a very calming tank to watch, except for feeding time. Then the black widows go berserk and pretty much jump out of the water. They are amazingly agile. That's a bonus as they help the micro pellets sink, so the danios get their share.
> 
> Who here uses any kind of cooling system on their tank. I was looking at crossflow fans in my LFS and wondered if they are worthwhile. The tank is in the shade but still pushing 26 for some of the afternoon. Not hugely hot I know but it's May, so can only get hotter. Oh, this is England, so maybe it won't.



My current cooling system:  If tank goes above 26 I lift the covers and turn the bedroom ceiling fan on   But I am looking at some proper fans for it cos I know its gonna get hotter when we get our next heatwave (in 2028)


----------



## pariahrob (30 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Have you seen anything that looks good yet? I've seen a clip on the side job at my lFS but it seems a bit pricey at £60.

On another note what do people do in case of a power cut? I had one last night and had no idea if I should be doing anything. Only lasted half an hour but made me think.


----------



## RobS (30 May 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

wow that a real stunning tank I love the balance between the different length of plants. Could sit and watch the tank for ages!


----------



## pariahrob (1 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 8) video*

Thanks RobS. I do in fact just sit and watch it a lot. I can even stop myself from tinkering (mostly) and my fish are now very used to me being around.
Quite funny really, they know when it's feeding time and if they see me reach to open the cabinet they all get very excited and expectant. I should record them when I give them live foods, or even frozen blood worm, as they go nuts for it. They normally get hakari micro pellets but now and then they have daphnia or blood worm and they devour them in no time.
I like the one clever CPD who ignores everything and swims down to the HC and eats the worms the others miss. I'm sure he must get double what the others do. Smart fish.

Ordered some ADA brighty K and a glass feeder too. The glass feeders are just lovely and I have the excuse that the dog can't tear it open and eat all the fish food!

Tank had a trim last weekend and is already looking like it needs some pruning, so will be having a maintenance session over the bank holiday. No glass cleaning though. The ottos are doing a way better job than I can.


----------



## pariahrob (1 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Here's the DO!aqua food glass:



I got this one rather than the full ADA version as I think this is a better shape. I think it's a better design all round as you don't need any support for it. It just stands where you leave it.
Lovely smooth action. A bit of an extravagance I know but I can't resist nice glassware!


----------



## sarahtermite (2 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Very swish! I'm a bit jealous now...


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

It's a nice little toy. Possibly a bit OTT but I like it!

Gave the ottos a slice of cucumber. parboiled and dropped in the tank with a plant weight:


Left overnight and they hadn't really touched it. Maybe still a bit too firm but by lunchtime today it looked like this:



Now it has quite literally all gone! I wasn't expecting them to eat the skin but they seem to love it.


----------



## Antipofish (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Hey Rob, from what people have told me, do the same with Courgette now   It is apparently much more nutritious for them  That one looks plump, but so do I.... doesn't mean Im healthy though, LOL.

I am sure that Do!Aqua or ADA do some fancy weight for vege food      If you ever get bored using your new glass toy you can always put baby M&M's in it


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Here's a quick video from earlier today. Tank is in dire need of some pruning. The pogo is looking lost in places due to the rapid growth of the quadricostatus and there are some random shoots poking up through the HC. I was hoping to do it this afternoon but didn't get time in the end.
Must be a job for the bank holiday!



Notices the Black Widows still hiding and my house guests are still there! That blue just doesn't look good in my tank!
Please ignore the filthy glassware. That'll be cleaned up tomorrow too!


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Yep, sent my mrs out to get a courgette earlier. I'm going to have some chubby little ottos if I'm not careful!


----------



## Antipofish (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Yep, sent my mrs out to get a courgette earlier. I'm going to have some chubby little ottos if I'm not careful!



LMAO... "Darling, can you go and buy a Courgette please"?!  "No we're having chips tonight"  I can picture it now   

I will be over run with courgettes later... have four plants at the allotment    (along with practically every other vegetable under the sun.  Thank Heavens for this rain.

Rob, I was looking at the flow from your lily.  Is that the ONLY flow and distribution you use for your CO2 injection ? I have to say, I am astonished how well your plant is doing, with what appears to be minimal flow.  It defies everything we often hear and totally proves the maxim "if it works for you: it works".  Congrats.  The tank is looking so mature.


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

That's pretty much how it was, without the darling!

Flow took a while to get right to be honest. It now circulates quite well. Right across the top, down the right and then across the floor to the inlet. I don't appear to have any dead spots. The video probably isn't too indicative of the flow though. The water level was a bit low and an extra litre makes a massive difference to my flow.

True though, it might not work for others but my plants are looking pretty good in general. I guess hardscape has a big impact took and mine is quite bowl-like which helps.


----------



## Antipofish (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Well I reckon your tank is one of the best laid out I have seen in this size   And I ask every time but forget.  Whats the plant taking over the back right of the tank called again ?  You know, the one I said to make sure it does not encroach over the gap ?


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

You obviously have impeccable tastes Chris, thanks! Just wait til I get my next tank. I have big plans for it.
You mean the pogostemon erectus? Or the one that looks like parsley? (which I can never remember the name of - I think it might be on page one. You can check. I'm too lazy!)


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Ah, no. I think you mean the grassier looking plant.

That's saggitaria subulata. Which is going made, throwing shoots up all over!


----------



## Antipofish (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

POST 26th may.  4th pic down, FTS.  Its the plant directly above the heads of the group of widows in the middle of the gap at the back


----------



## Ady34 (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Looking real nice Rob. 
Mark E is a lower flow success story too, and Tom Barr is an advocate of greater surface agitation so your in good company.
I like the cardinals in there, but id like them anywhere!
Whats your next tank, is it a 120? Look forward to that one.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Cheers Ady. The cardinals aren't mine. Just looking after them after a friends tank burst! They are nice looking fish but not so keen on them in my tank.

Next tank will either be a 90cm but shallower for that panavision look, or a 120 x 45cm. I was going to go full ADA all the way but I'm intrigued by the Natural Aquario products from Portugal as well. Very similar but half the price.


----------



## pariahrob (3 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Chris, yes, that is the saggitaria. Nice slender leaved plant and a different texture and hue to the other grasslike plants I have. I have some of that popping up in the middle of my carpet. I'm going to dig it out tomorrow when I do my big maintenance session. If you want a plantlet or two let me know and I'll pop it in the post for you on Wednesday.


----------



## pariahrob (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Just had a good look round the tank before a bit of pruning and found a dead CPD floating under some frog bit. No obvious cause and I've tested the water. All looking good. Other fish seem to be acting normally so not sure why he died.


----------



## pariahrob (9 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Well, still no idea why the CPD died but things have been ok since then. I finally got round to some decent maintenance today as well.
My glassware was looking decidedly shabby:



So, out came the superge and spring brush. Much better:




I may be able to start my next tank soonish as well. If everything pans out at work I'll be starting in the next month, so look for a new journal from me soon.


----------



## Antipofish (9 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Can't wait Rob   Wow ! You really are the Superge King.  You love that stuff as much as I do Purigen, hehe.       Where is your post trim FTS then  ?


----------



## pariahrob (9 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*

Got to love the superge! Great stuff. I'm actually a big fan of the perigean as well. I've noticed a difference since adding it.

Ok then. Here is the FTS. You'll see it's looking barer than it was. I had quite a pruning session, specially of the background plants, which really grow like weeds! The quadricostatus also has gone mad. This week it's sent out over 12" worth of runners and grown 4 new plantlets! SO they have gone and I've removed a couple of shoots of sagg too, as that was popping up all over the carpet and crowding the pogo.




And a couple of happy inhabitants too.



I'm loving this otto photo.


----------



## Antipofish (10 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Rob its looking great mate !  Your growth is amazing.  I think it would be a useful time for us all if you reminded us of your regimes : fert dosing, CO2, easy carb, lighting etc.  I know its in there but sometimes its good to see a FTS then see a snapshot of whats creating it


----------



## pariahrob (10 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Cheers Chris! Ok well here is a little rundown of my regime.

I'm still splashing out on ADA ferts, seeing as that's how I started and it's working for me so far. I will change to EI at some point though.
Up until last week I was dosing 3ml ADA stage 1 every morning, along with 2ml of easycarbo (which is a recent addition to help boost everything - which it certainly has).

Now I dose 2ml stage one and 1ml stage 2. I'm a few weeks early moving over to stage 2 but I decided to introduce it now. Partly as, although it isn't hugely different from stage 1, I like to make changes slowly where I can but also as my tank seems more matured than I was expecting by now.
I have my flow sorted, the carpet is fully established and all my plants seem to be doing really well. I may be condemning it saying that but so far so good. Once the stage 1 runs out next week I'll be using just stage 2.

I run pressurised CO2, at 2bps. Means nothing really but my drop checker is slightly lime coloured, not dark green. I turn the CO2 on 2 hours before lights on, switching it off an hour before lights off.

Lighting is 2 T5s, both plant pro bulbs (I didn't like the tropical pro colour rendition) and lights on at midday, off again at 8:00pm.

Water changes happen twice a week and I change 20-30%. I'm also using a mix of 70% tap water and 30% RO water, as my tap water is really hard.

I've had a few spots of algae turn up here and there but nothing too bad. I have 8 amanos and 6 ottos to deal with that, although I bought a scraper to use before taking any decent photos, just in case. I've barely used it though.

My filter is a rena xp2. Bottom basket has two mechanical filters, just simple broad foam. On top of that is a mix of two bio media. One bioballs from API and a handful of Fluval ceramic. Top basket has denser filter floss (which I change every month as it degrades fast) a handful of purigen and some API crystal.

I did have activated carbon in there but I removed it when I treated for whitespot and didn't put it back. I clean the filter out once a fortnight (mostly to remove the snails!) but could easily leave it a month or two without too much build up or clogging.

It's probably worth mentioning food too, seeing as that has a big impact on the water. I feed twice a day. Just a small amount of Hikari micropellets. I feed twice, as the black widows will eat everything I put in but only come out to feed when it's dark. That means the others can get some when the lights are on.

I also use a couple of genchem shrimp foods but I only had a quarter of the amount suggested. The shrimp get plenty to eat from plant biofilm. I just like to give them the extra to help with molting and things.

I think that covers it, apart from the endless tinkering and trimming.


----------



## greenink (10 Jun 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Substrate cleaning? Do you vacuum or sort of waft your hand at water changes?


----------



## pariahrob (10 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Oh yes! I bit of both really. I use a syphon and use it to waft things around a bit then use it a little more vigorously to get at anything in the carpet.
I also find a few snail shells under the filter intake, where the snails have battled the flow and lost. 

I do this while emptying water at water change time. Usually before switching off the filter, so that helps to remove the smallest floating debris I can't catch with the vacuum.


----------



## pariahrob (14 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I just took delivery of a little magfox filter hose cleaner. No idea if it's any good yet but if anybody wants a little review let me know.
Looking forward to trying it out tomorrow. My hoses are looking a bit manky!


----------



## Antipofish (14 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I just took delivery of a little magfox filter hose cleaner. No idea if it's any good yet but if anybody wants a little review let me know.
> Looking forward to trying it out tomorrow. My hoses are looking a bit manky!



 Mini reviews with pics always good


----------



## pariahrob (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I'll get that mini review done soon but for now here is a FTS as it stands today. Looking nice and green. Not done much this week, other than a little pruning of the quad and HC.


----------



## sarahtermite (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Those colours look incredibly vivid, Rob. A joy to behold!


----------



## Polyester (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Beautiful! Good inspiration!


----------



## Antipofish (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Rob you must be pretty chuffed with how this has gone eh ? I'm very impressed with the growth you are achieving and was also very impressed with the healthyness of the plants you sent me  Keep going... looking forward to seeing the 120 soon


----------



## greenink (19 Jun 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Yup. Seriously impressive.


----------



## pariahrob (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Thanks so much everybody. Great encouragement. Lets see if I can replicate this success on something 4 times as big!


----------



## Antipofish (19 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks so much everybody. Great encouragement. Lets see if I can replicate this success on something 4 times as big!



No chance mate.  May as well redirect the tank to my place     

Actually I have every faith.  You have patience and thats a big plus in this game I reckon. (Well apart from how quick you like to add your fish,   )


----------



## Iain Sutherland (20 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Thanks so much everybody. Great encouragement. Lets see if I can replicate this success on something 4 times as big!



when does this happen mate??  Are you going full ADA again following this epic success?!?


----------



## pariahrob (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Pretty soon by the looks of it. I'm not sure about going all ADA this time. I'm looking for 120cm tank and open top might be more hassle and expense. As much as I love ADA gear I'd be forever dealing with evaporation. It isn't out of the question though.
I have a few other options. Fluval Studio 900, or the roma are two but I'm most drawn to the eheim scubaline 240L. I really like the cabinet design. Lot's of very german features, like the soft close doors (my fish hate it when I close mine as gently as I can) and the shelf on the inside of one door. Such a nice idea, for test kits, food, stuff. I went and had a look at one and very solidly built. The lid isn't too deep, which puts me off some others and it has decent T5 lighting too.

I will have some rock in it but going for a more wood based approach I think. Plant-wise I haven't decided yet but I will definitely have some pogo and some HC in it.

I'm spending as much time thinking about fish. 50+ gallons gives me a lot of options. Not sure if I want a greater number of small fish or fewer larger or oddball fish. WOrds like angel and discus have been heard in my house recently but then ottos wouldn't  be such an option and I love them.

Ah, the joys of too many options.

Chris, sorry mate. I've already planned a room around it! You're welcome to come and do my water changes though.


----------



## Piece-of-fish (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Great result. I am jelous   
One more for eheim. I have scaped one in Hannover this year and can only say good things about it. Very well built.
Although for a rising aquascaping star such us yourself the only option is an open top  8) 
Much easier to maintain and to photograph plus this magic top view. Have you thought about auto top up?
Or even a sump.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				Piece-of-fish said:
			
		

> Have you thought about auto top up?



+1 to that 
TMC V2, best £40 ive spent in a long time.


----------



## pariahrob (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

The Eheim does look particularly well made.

I'd love to go open top again. It's not just evaporation putting me off. 120cm tanks aren't cheap but Jez from posiedon looks like a good bet. I'm waiting to hear about a cabinet now. That is a big enough expense in it's own right.

Auto topups look like a good idea, although I'm not sure I would trust it!

I must do some more reading up.

This tank is going to be work related to, so I need to keep that in mind.


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## greenink (21 Jun 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I've got a 120 Roma cabinet cheap and cheerful with a custom open top on top. Lovely.


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## pariahrob (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12, new photos)*

Great timing Mike. That's what I was just thinking about. Or this: 

http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... lours.html

They look nice but I'd worry about the plastic cabinet. Anybody seen/touched one?


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## geaves (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Great timing Mike. That's what I was just thinking about. Or this:
> 
> http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... lours.html
> 
> They look nice but I'd worry about the plastic cabinet. Anybody seen/touched one?



Hi, there is a journal about one those allpondsolutions.


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## greenink (21 Jun 2012)

*ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Plus a cheap luminaire. 

http://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/


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## pariahrob (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Cheers Mike. That's a nice looking bit of kit. I wonder when it's due for release.


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## pariahrob (22 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

A while back I promised I'd share my experience with the MagFox. Well work got the better of me but here is my first go with it.

The Magfox is a filter hose cleaner that works like a magnetic tank scraper. It's a pretty hefty magnet that goes on the outside of the hose:



and a tiny magnetic brush to keep in the hose:



I removed my lily pipe on the inlet side and you can see that, although it could be worse, there is a bit of build up which would eventually effect the flow.



So in goes the brush part with the handle/magnet on the outside (obvious I know):



Lily pipe back on and filter started up again ( I also gave it a good clean) then just start running the fox up and down. Good strength magnet and I don't think there's much risk of the brush dropping down the hose into the filter head.



Less than a minute and the hose is good as new. 




My thoughts are that they should come in pairs. I'd have to dismantle everything and remove to then do the other hose, which I'd rather not do every time I want to clean. I think I will buy another though. Once installed you just give it a once over every now and then and good to go.

On the outflow hose I think, at least for the first clean I'd remove the hose. I'll turn off the filter, do the cleaning and then turn it on again but emptying into a bucket at water change time. Otherwise the whole hose-full of crap will get blasted round the tank!

I'm impressed anyway. Good price and delivered pretty swiftly from two little fishes in the USA.


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## Haraldo (24 Jun 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Really enjoying this Journal. Going for something similar only in a 12 year old 120x46x46 lidded tank. Was going to put a sand strip in, but seeing your tank without the sand made my mind up not to. Have spent over a year looking at journals & tip/tricks so thought it was abut time I put into practice what is on here.

Keep posting as I am following this scape 

Mel


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## pariahrob (7 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Hi all,

tank is still going strong. It's quite mature now (for a 3 month old scape anyway) and I'm basically just keeping on top of things, trimming here and there and doing maintenance. Fish are all good and all seems stable.

I've just added a new set of bio media to the filter, which will be used to seed the filter on my new 300L tank which is due to arrive soon. Hoping it will help the cycle happen nice and quickly.

Oh yes and if anybody wants some nice floating amazon frog bit please let me know. I grow this stuff by the bucketload. 
What you see in the photo is what is available. I have more I like to keep some, as the black widows love it for cover:



If you want it please PM here and I'll get back to you.


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## GreenGrow (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Hi there pariahrob, I am local and also use Acres supply! 
Love the tank, very crisp!

A quick question about your photos if I may? What editing programs do you use and what settings on the cannon do you take the pictures with??

Thanks!


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## pariahrob (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Hi, thanks! Glad you like it.

I use photoshop for any post work, if I do any. As for settings it depends on the shot but I either shoot at f4 for full tank shots, with the focus on the front of the glass. Or I shoot at f1.8 on a 50mm prime for closeups of specific areas or fish. 
The shutter speed will depend on wether I use just the tank light or if I can be bothered to add a softbox or two.

If you use aperture priority mode you can set the f stop and let the camera do the rest.

Cheers


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## Antipofish (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Rob how do you focus on the front glass ? Are you focussing manually ?  At f/4 focussed on the front glass don't you get some blurring of the rear plants ? (I guess not as your images are not blurred   ).  How far from the tank are you when you take your "close up" shots ?  With my f/1.4 50mm I just don't seem to be able to get as close as I would like without losing focus.  Again, do you think I would be able to overcome that problem focussing manually? Cheers


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## pariahrob (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I always focus manually when shooting my tank. There is too much join on for auto to work well. Slightest bit of smudging or algae (not that you have any Chris) and it throws it right off.

I'm usually about 3 feet away I'd guess for a FTS and maybe 6' -10' when I'm trying to get a close up. I do tend to shoot slightly wide and crop in afterwards.


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## Antipofish (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

6' o 10' for a close up or 6" to 10" ?


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## pariahrob (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Yeah. Inches rather than feet, sorry!


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## Antipofish (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Yeah. Inches rather than feet, sorry!



Hehe I thought so.  So you can focus down to 6" with a 50mm lens ? Does it have a macro capability or is it just a normal lens ?  I'm amazed but it could be me being dumb... maybe by manually focussing you can be closer  ? Would that be it  ?


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## pariahrob (11 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I have an assortment of lenses but you could use a kit lens with an extnsion tube and get pretty close.


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## Antipofish (12 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> I have an assortment of lenses but you could use a kit lens with an extnsion tube and get pretty close.



Ahh now thats an idea to try... an extension tube.  I wish I had kept my 24 to 120 to be honest, it was a cracking lens and really versatile.


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## HarryRobinson (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> A while back I promised I'd share my experience with the MagFox. Well work got the better of me but here is my first go with it.
> 
> The Magfox is a filter hose cleaner that works like a magnetic tank scraper. It's a pretty hefty magnet that goes on the outside of the hose:



Would love to know where you got this from in the uk?


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## pariahrob (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

I didn't. A few places pretend to stock them but nobody does. 
I've just ordered a few more for my 300l. They are great little cleaners.


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## HarryRobinson (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

Yeah, so where did you get them from? haha 

They look awesome


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## pariahrob (13 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 10, new photos)*

If you go to twolittlefishes.com there is a list of distributors. I can't remember which one I used but they had an eBay shop which was reasonably priced.


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## pariahrob (24 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

I have a LOT of quadricostatus in this tank now. It sends off new shoots every few days, each with 2 - 3 planets on it. I usually snip them off but a few escape me. If anybody would like some I'm happy to let them grow a little, so they are more mature and then send them.
Price of a coffee and postage for a good number of plants. Let me know if you're interested.

RR


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## pariahrob (24 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

A little update on this tank. The rehomed cardinal tetras have now gone. They are feeling a bit lost after the move to my 300L. A bit of a move up the property ladder for them!

The black widows are showing themselves a bit more now. I think the tetras were dominating them a little. The CPDs are as lively and fun as always and the otos are no different. Those guys have always been lively, fun and in your face! They are so inquisitive. If I put my hand in for trimming or anything they immediately swim over and have a taste of me, just in case I'm any different and have somehow become edible.


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## andyh (24 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 9)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

>



That is one healthy looking tanking dude, great work! Great mix of plants!


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## pariahrob (25 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

Thanks Andy. I'll get some fresh pictures soon as well. I have the black backing in again now, rather than the wall!

Some of the planting has changed a little too. Echinodorus quadricostatus back right now instead which I think evens things out a bit better. Some of the blyxa has gone, to make way for a little hydrocotl tripartita.

Still looking nice and healthy though!


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## darren636 (25 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

those smaller echinodorus can take over a tank.


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## pariahrob (25 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

Quite right Darren. That's why I'm offering them to everybody. I get a good handful of new plants each week!


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## pariahrob (26 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

Just spotted a little black beard on a couple of quadricostatus leaves. I've cut them out and done a water change but are there any tips for this?
I've not changed anything else recently, except remove the cardinal tetras. Could it be the heat?


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## Ady34 (26 Jul 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> Just spotted a little black beard on a couple of quadricostatus leaves. I've cut them out and done a water change but are there any tips for this?
> I've not changed anything else recently, except remove the cardinal tetras. Could it be the heat?


Unsure about the heat unless warmer water is less accepting of c02 diffusion resulting in lower concentrations of c02? Would have thought it would have to be relitively long term, although the recent fluctuations may be just as guilty if this is the case.
Increased plant mass can effect flow/distribution of c02 which may cause this as its usually a c02 related algae. Guessing as nothing else changed recently that c02 is optimised, diffuser clean and bubbles still fine, dc changing colour the same and lime green at light on etc etc.... im sure you know all this but just offering it up none the less.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## pariahrob (6 Aug 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

Sorry, I didn't reply sooner but I think you were right Ady. I think the CO2 needed upping to counter the massive plant growth I had recently.
I cut out the effected plants, as well as having a bit of a pruning session. Big water changes for a few days and I think (hope) that it is all under control now.

I now have the problem of not knowing where to go with it. Do I let it just sit and slowly mature with the odd trim here and there, or do I replant or even rescape?

I was thinking of replanting in a month or two, using just 1-2-grow plants.

Rob

(There is a small chance that it might turn into a nano reef tank at christmas too)


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## Skipper644 (6 Aug 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*

I'll be interested to see how you convert it to a reef setup.


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## pariahrob (7 Aug 2012)

That's only a small possibility right now but if I do I'll post it. I think I'm too attached to my plants right now.

Ok, so I pulled out a load of quadricostatus today. Mostly from the front left, where it was annoyingly getting wrapped around my filter intake. I've planted that area with the 1-2-grow staurogyne repens. Tank is a bit cloudy right now but when it settles later I'll get some quick photos.


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## Antipofish (7 Aug 2012)

*Re: ADA 60-P planted tank 'Prairie'  (week 12s)*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> (There is a small chance that it might turn into a nano reef tank at christmas too)




Nooooo dont go over to the _*DARK SIDE*_


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## pariahrob (12 Aug 2012)

SOrry Chris. It has to be done. She h=who must be obeyed has set her heart on some marine critters and seeing as I haven't got her the unicorn she wants I have to bow down.

Which means I will shortly be left with lots of plants. A fair amount of them will be moved to the 300L but I think there will be some left over. Keep your eyes peeled on the for sale threads. I'll be posting over the next week, when I know what exactly is happening.

To be honest I thought I would have longer but she is using my birthday as an excuse to buy some stuff. This also means that I will be moving fish into the big tank too. Upside is I'll have a very nice collection of tetras all in one place. Down side is I wont be adding any discus, as the ottos will be moving in too. That's ok though, as I think the apistos are attention grabbing enough.

Hmm, rimless ADA marine tank. Could look very nice. Berlin method I think. Keep everything clean looking. I wonder if I can persuade her it should be a planted saltwater? I'd like to try that out...


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## Antipofish (12 Aug 2012)

George did one I recall, theres an article in one of the PFKs I believe.  There is a lot of marine algae that is fabulous !! Especially the Caulerpa spp.  This might be a useful page for you...   http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/al...pagation_Control_Information_and_Pictures.htm

May I advise you to avoid Mandarin Fish until the tank is VERY mature (or any of the blennies and dragonets), cleaner wrasse in any instance and blue cheeked gobies in any instance  8)

I am sure whatever you do it will look lovely.


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## andyh (13 Aug 2012)

hello

Shame you gonna strip her down, funnily enough i was thinking of crossing to the dark side.....

Check ultimatereef.com for a load of ada60p's converted to Nano Reefs.There are a couple of stunning ones. Its what i will be doing at some point as i do miss my marines.....

Andyh


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## pariahrob (13 Aug 2012)

Cheers for those sites guys.

I'm only partially moving to the dark side. I still love my planted tanks and the 300l will remain the focus in the house but marines are calling me back too!

Some great ADA converted tanks around. Their glass works just as well if not better for marine.

RR


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## Dan Wiggett (13 Aug 2012)

Such a nice tank to break down, i'm sure whatever you do it'll look nice!


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## pariahrob (13 Aug 2012)

Thanks. Just wait til I get some decent photos posted of the big tank. That is coming along very nicely.

Cheers

RR


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## pariahrob (21 Aug 2012)

I'm calling this thread closed.

The 60-P is now full of saltwater and will soon be home to a reef. All my planted interests are now in the 300L tank, which is doing really well.

Thanks to everybody for helping me get this one off the ground. I have learned loads and really appreciate it. I'll still be pestering for help in my other threads though...


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## sarahtermite (21 Aug 2012)

Prairi RIP. It was good while it lasted....

Looking forward to see how your big tanks matures! (And is your fencepost tank still up and running?)


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## pariahrob (21 Aug 2012)

Thanks Sarah.

Yes, the fencepost is going strong. In fact I should update that thread. I noticed some of the third batch of fleas last night, so going well!


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## Antipofish (21 Aug 2012)

I cannot believe its 5 months since you started this thread !!!  WOW.


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## HarryRobinson (21 Aug 2012)

Got any pics of the reef? Sad to hear this tank has been taken down, such a good scape..


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## H.Alves (30 Apr 2019)

Are you making a journal for the reef 60P? Would be nice to follow the material you are using on it and how it evolves.


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