# Whats the ultimate shoaling fish?



## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Hey guys

I am setting up a 60l and i am looking of inspiration, what shoaling fish should i go for?

I want something special? There seems to new species pooping up all the time and fancy something a little different.

Anybody with ideas, please post links, pics etc?


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## Themuleous (4 Aug 2009)

Otos, by a long way.  I've never seen a fish shoal as well.

Second to that I would say from the fish I've kept are cherry barbs, shoal better than most but guess still not brilliantly.

I also find shoaling behaviour is much more apparent in larger tanks, I very rarely see it in my 60cm.

Sam


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Otos, by a long way.  I've never seen a fish shoal as well.
> 
> Second to that I would say from the fish I've kept are cherry barbs, shoal better than most but guess still not brilliantly.
> 
> ...




Sam - good point about the size tank, that's whats a challenge for me! I am thinking along the line of nano fish to give the tank a better scale


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## Themuleous (4 Aug 2009)

In that case I'd recommend any of the boraras species, e.g. boraras maculatus.  Lovely little fish, if a little tricky to get hold of sometimes.  Not used to death like the ember tetra as well.

Sam


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## Dan Crawford (4 Aug 2009)

Harlequins IMO not my favorite fish but the best shoalers i've seen.


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> In that case I'd recommend any of the boraras species, e.g. boraras maculatus.  Lovely little fish, if a little tricky to get hold of sometimes.  Not used to death like the ember tetra as well.
> 
> Sam







Is this what you were thinking? I have seen these in local shop Very nice indeed.


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## Tony Swinney (4 Aug 2009)

Rummy Nose Tetras.  A bit of a classic when it comes to the "best shoalers' question, but there's a darn good reason for that


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## Nick16 (4 Aug 2009)

i have 12 boras briggitea, they are really colourful fish but should not be kept with other bigger fish - even neons. 

when i had them in a tnak with harlequins and neons etc, they just hid at the back by the filter inlets, however since putting them in my 120L shrimp tank, they are fine, bold little fish that use the whole tank.


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Tonser said:
			
		

> Rummy Nose Tetras.  A bit of a classic when it comes to the "best shoalers' question, but there's a darn good reason for that



Yeah, with you totally, however after seeing these asian rummynose i am quite taken:


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Nick16 said:
			
		

> i have 12 boras briggitea, they are really colourful fish but should not be kept with other bigger fish - even neons.
> 
> when i had them in a tnak with harlequins and neons etc, they just hid at the back by the filter inlets, however since putting them in my 120L shrimp tank, they are fine, bold little fish that use the whole tank.



Thats good to know, i plan to just ahve one large shoal i assume they look like the the other boraras species above?


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Anybody had any of these? Gold-tetras? 

Thought they may look cool in a shoal?


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## Ed Seeley (4 Aug 2009)

I've got a cracking new shoaling fish arriving next week - _Cyprichromis leptosoma_ 'Mpulungu' - a bit different from the ordinary stuff!    Mouthbreeding shoaling cichlids!!!!


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## Nick16 (4 Aug 2009)

mine look like this..





i know its not my photo but they look odentical really, the males are more colourful than the females but there isnt much in it really.


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## vauxhallmark (4 Aug 2009)

andyh said:
			
		

> Tonser said:
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Wow, can you get them with other words on them, or just JJphoto.dk?   

M


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> andyh said:
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you can get them branded with what ever you want? good advertising!


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Nick16 said:
			
		

> mine look like this..
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Nick, they are wicked!


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## Themuleous (4 Aug 2009)

The Cyprichromis leptosoma 'Mpulungu' look awesome!





Sam


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## TDI-line (4 Aug 2009)

Blimey there's some stunning fish there, i like the look of those Rummies, as a rummie convert myself.


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> The Cyprichromis leptosoma 'Mpulungu' look awesome!
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Sam, i am with you totally, they look cool. 

This aint helping, to many way cool fish keep em coming!


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

what about these?

Microrasbora sp. "Galaxy"


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## SunnyP (4 Aug 2009)

Why doesn't my LFS do any of these amazing fish. Would DEFINITELY have had shoaling fish like those!!


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## Ed Seeley (4 Aug 2009)

Cheers Sam.  I'm hoping they 9 I've got coming next week look as good in my new tank with the _Neolamprologus meeli_ and _N.helianthus_ that will be sharing the tank.  Pics to follow in a new journal, once I have planted the Vallis that will be the only plants in the tank!


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## french tony (4 Aug 2009)

I'm in the same position, 60l tank recently rescaped and I have been looking in the nano fish direction too. I Have already acquired 6 ember tetra 
http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hyphessobrycon_amandae.php. 
They are lovely little fish. They are lively, tend to schoal quite well. I will be adding some Galaxy Rasbora and possibly some neon green tetra. 
All these are small fish and I hope I can get away with 6 of each without overcrowding the tank.


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## rawr (4 Aug 2009)

In terms of shoaling behaviour, you're probably talking fish like Ember Tetras, Rummynose Tetras and Harlequin Rasboras.


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## andyh (4 Aug 2009)

french tony said:
			
		

> I'm in the same position, 60l tank recently rescaped and I have been looking in the nano fish direction too. I Have already acquired 6 ember tetra
> http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Hyphessobrycon_amandae.php.
> They are lovely little fish. They are lively, tend to schoal quite well. I will be adding some Galaxy Rasbora and possibly some neon green tetra.
> All these are small fish and I hope I can get away with 6 of each without overcrowding the tank.



Those ember tetra are nice, i have seen them in fish shops but they are never fully coloured up!


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## jay (4 Aug 2009)

Not really a true ultimate shoaling fish... all tetras and rasboras shoal great!!!... for the first 2 weeks.

then, in a tank environment, each individual fish will go about their own business most of the time.
The best ive seen in tetras on a long term basis were rummies (GO RUMMIES)!! hehe and green neons (my fave)
and most rasboras shoal well too, except for the previously mentioned galaxy, which can become quite territorial. 

Good luck!!


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## amy4342 (4 Aug 2009)

I've got about 15 gold tetras in my 120l-they shoal quite nicely but I'm not sure if they'd look too big for a 60l - think silvertip tetra size and shape. The Boras Briggitea are absolutely stunning - shoal lovely in my nano and the colours are fantastic. I think their size would suit a 60l lovely, but you'd need a fair few. Galaxy Rasbora I think would look good also, but they don't shoal at all in my nano. 

I like Rasbora Borapetensis as a shoaling fish, but I also think they would look a little too large. Boraras Maculatus are cute if your lfs can get them in. 

What about a slightly different take on things, maybe some Corydoras Pygmaeus or Corydoras Hastatus on the bottom and Hatchetfish or Danios on the top? It sounds weird, but it looks cooler than it sounds.


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## andyh (6 Aug 2009)

amy4342 said:
			
		

> I've got about 15 gold tetras in my 120l-they shoal quite nicely but I'm not sure if they'd look too big for a 60l - think silvertip tetra size and shape. The Boras Briggitea are absolutely stunning - shoal lovely in my nano and the colours are fantastic. I think their size would suit a 60l lovely, but you'd need a fair few. Galaxy Rasbora I think would look good also, but they don't shoal at all in my nano.
> 
> I like Rasbora Borapetensis as a shoaling fish, but I also think they would look a little too large. Boraras Maculatus are cute if your lfs can get them in.
> 
> What about a slightly different take on things, maybe some Corydoras Pygmaeus or Corydoras Hastatus on the bottom and Hatchetfish or Danios on the top? It sounds weird, but it looks cooler than it sounds.




Like you thinking with Corydorad Pgmys, i have four in my shrimp tank and they are excellent little scavengers!






A nice shoal of top swimmers with say 6 of these might look cool, and all whilst keeping things to scale.


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## Superman (7 Aug 2009)

I found that Celestial Pearl Danios shoaled very well as they didn't like any movement in or around the tank!
The next best was harlequins although recently for my 14ltr nano I got some Sundadanio Axelrodi sp. blue (see avatar) and they shoal very tight. In your setup you could get loads of them and have a big shoal.


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## Dan Crawford (7 Aug 2009)

Emerald Eye Rasboras shoal better than almost any other fish i've seen, they are just the perfect shoalers and so understated, super cool 8)


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## amy4342 (7 Aug 2009)

> I got some Sundadanio Axelrodi



Sorry, doing a little thread hikacking. Clark, what do the Sundadanio Axelrodi look like under normal lighting? I've seen then in Aquajardin (couldn't resist another visit, and another after that!  ), and they looked very nice under the subdued lighting, but I thought the colour might not be as intense if not in subdued lighting. If the one in your avatar is from your tank, then I'm obviously wrong - it looks lovely! .


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## andyh (8 Oct 2009)

Just to add a little closure to this thread, i ended up going with two species 

Emerald eye Rasboara and  boraras maculatus, both of which can be seen on my journal lots of pics and videos. They shoal excellently.


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## Superman (8 Oct 2009)

amy4342 said:
			
		

> > I got some Sundadanio Axelrodi
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, doing a little thread hikacking. Clark, what do the Sundadanio Axelrodi look like under normal lighting? I've seen then in Aquajardin (couldn't resist another visit, and another after that!  ), and they looked very nice under the subdued lighting, but I thought the colour might not be as intense if not in subdued lighting. If the one in your avatar is from your tank, then I'm obviously wrong - it looks lovely! .



Sorry Amy, I missed this for a while.
I would describe their colour as mini-neons but at the wrong angle they look totally see through.
The one that was in my avatar wasn't from my fish, but they look slightly less brilliant in colour.
I took some photos of them in my journal but their colour didn't come out as nice as it is in real life.
Here's a photo of mine:


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## Dave Spencer (8 Oct 2009)

Excellent choices andy. I have kept both types and found them to be true shoalers. Here are some Emerald eye (Rasbora dorsiocellata) from a couple of years ago.





Dave.


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## andyh (8 Oct 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Excellent choices andy. I have kept both types and found them to be true shoalers. Here are some Emerald eye (Rasbora dorsiocellata) from a couple of years ago.
> 
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Hey Dave,

Did you have any problems with the little buggers jumping out of the tank!? I found out the hard way   
Lovely fish though!


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## Dave Spencer (8 Oct 2009)

Not so much the Rasbora, but the Boraras can get a little flighty if they are spooked by somebody suddenly approaching the tank, and I have found one or two crispy ones on the floor.

I tend to run the water level a little lower than normal as a result, but jumping hasn`t been a huge problem.

Dave.


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## andyh (8 Oct 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Not so much the Rasbora, but the Boraras can get a little flighty if they are spooked by somebody suddenly approaching the tank, and I have found one or two crispy ones on the floor.
> 
> I tend to run the water level a little lower than normal as a result, but jumping hasn`t been a huge problem.
> 
> Dave.



Yes crispy thats it! My wife didnt appreciate it when she stood a crispy one on the kitchen floor!   

I have started running the water level lower and have a couple of temporary condensate tray covers on, till they calm down.

Andy


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## chriscrook4750 (13 Oct 2009)

cardinals quite good


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## tropic_john (13 Oct 2009)

ember tetras ftw!  Or those see-throughy mini neons - forgotten name already


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## samc (18 Oct 2009)

not sure if these have been mentioned but i bought some red eye tetra today and i really like them. they are shoaling very well at the moment and are much nicer than the pictures i have seen of them. very cool


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## chump54 (18 Oct 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> not sure if these have been mentioned but i bought some red eye tetra today and i really like them. they are shoaling very well at the moment and are much nicer than the pictures i have seen of them. very cool



I've got some too, they have shoaled well since day one are still shoal better than my black neons.

Chris


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## the fife flyer (28 Dec 2009)

I have 50 or so Neons in my 600ltr tank and wouldn`t say they were a good shoaler. When they do though (normally just after lights-on) they look good. Albeit just for a few minutes.


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## gzylo (28 Dec 2009)

the fife flyer said:
			
		

> I have 50 or so Neons in my 600ltr tank and wouldn`t say they were a good shoaler. When they do though (normally just after lights-on) they look good. Albeit just for a few minutes.




Hi

Just put in the tank few large fish (discus or something) and they will shoal 

I have 20 cardinal tetras with discus and they shoal - they do not however without discus in the tank


Thanks
gzylo


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## fourmations (10 Jan 2010)

gzylo said:
			
		

> Just put in the tank few large fish (discus or something) and they will shoal
> 
> I have 20 cardinal tetras with discus and they shoal - they do not however without discus in the tank



i wouldnt like to be a tetra in your tank!

this is the point, i am no fish species expert
but to my knowledge,
fish school because there is something wrong or they are scared

my rasbora hengeli dither around enjoying their own space
but when lights go off or there is a sudden noise etc etc... they school tightly

so the tighter the schooling the less relaxed your fish are.

its known that in the aquascaping contest game that fish are added
at the last minute, to enhance schooling, through nervousness

so you can bet your behind that gzylo's tetras are living in constant fear of the discus

am i wrong? 

regards

4


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## Ed Seeley (10 Jan 2010)

fourmations said:
			
		

> gzylo said:
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I'm sorry but to an extent yes.  You're personifying your tetras - they are small fish not little people in scaly bodies and they don't respond to things or necessaryily feel the same way we would about things.  Rather than being 'in constant fear' they are aware of a potential threat and are taking appropriate actions.  In the wild they would live like this almost constantly so you could say that he is providing more natural conditions for his fish instead.

Also fish don't just shoal as a response to threats, some also do it as part of feeding.  Cardinals are a good example - they will shoal and try and overwhelm larger, spawning parental fish to eat their fry.  I've seen them gang up on an apisto and eat it's fry.

Perhaps we could say, according to your arguements, that by not slowly dimming your lights you are subjecting your fish to a daily shock that scares them when your lights suddenly go off?


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## fourmations (10 Jan 2010)

hi ed

thanks for the info, 
i did open by dispelling any thoughts that i was an expert!

i do feel i have a point though, even if I was a bit dramatic!
schoolers are well know to "loosen out" after settling in,
and as glyxo has stated, his fish act a different way around the discus,

i've often wondered about the subject of natural environment and "the wild " in aquariums
i'm all for good conditions, providing cover and all the things that make life more comfortable
but when we take fish and put them in a glass box in a house being fed by humans etc etc
does the wild not go out the window?

on my own rasboras, i do not have the facility to dim unfortunately
but they are not plunged into complete darkness as there is a good
bit of ambient light around their tank

they get "tighter" regularly, 
when normal maintenance, trimming, w/c's etc are being done

its a single species tank (apart from 3 oto's)
so I don't see any real habits in relation to feeding
or interaction with other species,

cheers

4


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## Ed Seeley (10 Jan 2010)

Yes disturbed they shoal more tightly but you can't apply human feelings to their motives behind this and saying things like 'scared' implies they are aware of fear and emotions such as that.  They aren't and there's no evidence at all that they have the capacity to process such emotions.  In fact there's evidence to the contrary but people don't like to hear that and prefer to think of them as little people in fishy bodies which they are not.


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## roadmaster (14 Jan 2010)

I believe fish are conditioned to recognize that there is saftey in numbers. By schooling, or shoaling in the hundreds ,perhaps thousands , it makes it much more difficult for predators to single out any one fish save the weak ones, or sick ones. Even in large schools,the weak and sick are often subjected to harrassment by the stronger or more dominant fish. The  usual minimum suggested group (six to eight) does not in my mind even come close to what one can see with larger groups with respect to schooling. A group of a two dozen or more from my observations ,is much more likely to result in fishes schooling than a mere six to eight fish. With the smaller numbers, some fish will be as mentioned,, subject to the hierarchy established in a closed system and may or may not school with others in this relatively small group.
I do believe fish from birth,have natural instinct to remain in cover such as floating plants both for safety from predation ,and often to feed from infusoria ,and or other organisims and or plant matter found there. Upturned mouths of liveberaers for example, suggest  that through evolution they are inclined to migrate towards the surface for reasons stated. Not because of any particular threat they may or may not perceive.
 I too believe some,,, place humanistic traits with fishes that just aren't present but  As a fisherman, and hobbyist, I have observed that fish do flee from areas with little cover in the presence of larger fish and will hold tight to dense cover in presence of larger fish.Beleve it is instinct rather than actual immediate threat that governs this emotion if you wish to call it that.


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## wearsbunnyslippers (14 Jan 2010)

i saw some of these at my lfs, they only had six and werent for sale, they supposed to be getting in a shipment early this year...

albino rummy noses or golden rummy noses, they have the same schooling behaviour as regular rummies but are a nice change in color:


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## andyh (14 Jan 2010)

nice


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## a1Matt (14 Jan 2010)

I've said it before and I will say it again....

Rummies. love 'em love 'em love 'em!    8)   Normal, asian, albino does not matter they really are the ultimate shoalers IME!   

Not had a single other fish in 20 years that carries on shoaling once settled in.


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## frothhelmet (26 Mar 2010)

Hmmm, I know Rummy noses are one of the best schoolers. I have read that Asian rummy noses however are not. Black neons are poor schoolers as they are some what territorial. In fact, any territorial tetra like the bleeding hearts, serpaes, Black Phantom etc will not school very well (unless they have a large fish in the tank perhaps). I have seen the ember tetras schooling well. Also, on a recent trip to MA St. Albans I was very impressed with the tight tight schooling and fast swimming of dwarf golden barbs. These are definitely something to look into for schooling behavior. 

Oh, and we totally forgot. Corydoras generally are awesome schoolers. Someone mentioned otos which school well too. 

And don't forget Nannostomus Eques! These guys school uber-tight without any external stimulus and swim super slow in an upright position. These guys might be the best pure-schoolers there are. Other pencils I don't have a lot of experience with, but Red Arc's and Trifasciatus are aggressive terrors and stake out territories rather than school. On the other hand Espei seems to shoal well in photos, but have not examined them live for any length of time.

For my money though, the most beautiful schoolers are rummy-nose.


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