# substrate to bare bottom



## logi-cat (5 Mar 2012)

hi, will i encounter any problems if i decided to switch from substrate to bare bottom?


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## Ady34 (5 Mar 2012)

Your root feeding plants wont like it much!    
Depends on what you mean and for what reason.


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## logi-cat (6 Mar 2012)

I just want to keep fish only. No plants or anything. Will i encounter a bacteria boom? It is a 60l tank with an eheim 2213 filter.


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## Ady34 (6 Mar 2012)

i suspect if you completely strip the tank, and use a mature filter there will be no issue... presuming not too great a bio load for the size of filter. 
If going from planted to bare bottom ensure the filter capacity is large enough to cope with the fish in its own right without relying on substrate and plants as an additional filter media.
Ady.


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## dw1305 (6 Mar 2012)

Hi all,


> I just want to keep fish only. No plants or anything. Will i encounter a bacteria boom? It is a 60l tank with an eheim 2213 filter.


 Bare bottom is horrible, and only works for people who are really good at water management and OCD about cleanliness.  Substrate and plants makes water management so much easier.

Why don't you add a thin layer of silica sand? it only needs to be a 1cm ish. thick.

cheers Darrel


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## Antipofish (6 Mar 2012)

Why would you want bare bottom even with fish only ? Its the most unnatural environment for them, and its all about providing the best environment possible for them regardless of plants for me.  The fish I see in LFSs that are in planted (even plastic) tanks with gravel on the bottom and a few rocks or bits of wood are always WAY happier than the ones cowering on the bottom not knowing which way is up or down.  I wish I had taken a movie clip of the Debauwi catfish huddled together shaking on the bottom of a bare bottom tank recently.  It was horrid.  I nearly bought the damn things just to give them somewhere better to live.


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## Ady34 (6 Mar 2012)

it should be noted that we dont know for what reason logi cat wants bare bottom. Some breeding species like discus rely on water perameters more than anything to spawn and bare bottom allows easy sight of uneaten food, detrius etc which can be easily cleaned. Substrates can allow uneaten food, dead fry etc to go unnoticed thus polluting the environment for all.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## logi-cat (6 Mar 2012)

Andy is correct, jist breeding etc


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## dw1305 (6 Mar 2012)

Hi all,


> Some breeding species like discus rely on water perameters more than anything to spawn and bare bottom allows easy sight of uneaten food, detrius etc which can be easily cleaned. Substrates can allow uneaten food, dead fry etc to go unnoticed thus polluting the environment for all.


 I really don't believe this, water parameters are nearly always better in tanks with substrate and plants, because they allow you a little "wriggle" room when you are busy etc..  You can design a tank so that any left over organic debris collects in one spot, where it can be easily syphoned from, and faeces are not actually that polluting, but mainly unsightly. 

Even if I didn't have a substrate I'd have plants (floating, attached to sponges, on wood etc). Plants add oxygen and remove ammonia, that is a win-win situation in tank maintenance.

There are plenty of successful breeders who use bare bottomed tanks, Jo Crane from "Rare Aquatics" is one who used to, but she is really OCD about cleanliness, cleaning the whole tank with a new scrim (one use and then discarded) every week, glass every day and doing 50% water changes every day.  

More details here, although I see she is now using a sand substrate <http://www.plecoplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9538>

cheers Darrel


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## Antipofish (6 Mar 2012)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > Some breeding species like discus rely on water perameters more than anything to spawn and bare bottom allows easy sight of uneaten food, detrius etc which can be easily cleaned. Substrates can allow uneaten food, dead fry etc to go unnoticed thus polluting the environment for all.
> ...



100% agree


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## Ady34 (6 Mar 2012)

dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Some breeding species like discus rely on water perameters more than anything to spawn and bare bottom allows easy sight of uneaten food, detrius etc which can be easily cleaned. Substrates can allow uneaten food, dead fry etc to go unnoticed thus polluting the environment for all.I really don't believe this, water parameters are nearly always better in tanks with substrate and plants, because they allow you a little "wriggle" room when you are busy etc.. You can design a tank so that any left over organic debris collects in one spot, where it can be easily syphoned from, and faeces are not actually that polluting, but mainly unsightly.


I was only suggesting this as logi cat specified bare bottom.
Of course planted tanks allow a little leniency, and appear more natural, however good water is down to good tank husbandry too and for some, when breeding, bare bottom is easier to keep on top of.


			
				logi-cat said:
			
		

> No plants or anything


clearly without anything in the tank, logi cat is looking to make life easier on himself regards catching parent fish/fry, so designing a scape to suit is more hard work.
Im obviously a fan of substrates, but im only trying to help logi cat regarding his question.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## sanj (6 Mar 2012)

I would not keep fish without a planted tank, but then I would not keep a planted tank without fish.

However for breeding purposes I tend to use bare bottom tanks. In between breeding when sterilising tanks it is far easier to go with bare bottom, also for tiny fry it is easier to minimise other nasties like hydra than in a planted tank.

In grow out tanks i do tend to keep plants like anubias and java fern.


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## dw1305 (7 Mar 2012)

Hi all,


> However for breeding purposes I tend to use bare bottom tanks. In between breeding when sterilising tanks it is far easier to go with bare bottom, also for tiny fry it is easier to minimise other nasties like hydra than in a planted tank.


 Point taken. I now use a small amount of silica sand, even for temporary breeding tanks, but this probably doesn't make any difference to success. I just air dry the sand between uses. 

I also have some small bits of coconut shell and some floating corks, planted with moss. I give these a vigorous wash before use, but I have had _Planaria_ problems, so wool mops/non-planted coconut shell might be better.

cheers Darrel


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