# Anyone else have problems with T5 lighting?



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

I'm having real problems with my new 4ft tank.  So far I've lost Â£50 worth of HC in it, and I've just added a further Â£20 of glosso, val nann, P.helferi and a little bit more HC.

Quick setup stats

Tank - 48x18x18
Lighting - 2x54w T5 - Osram Lumilux 880 Skywhite Fluorescent and Sylvania Grolux (I did run 3x 54w but when the HC started to turn white and rot I switched to just two tubes as I reckon it was pushing the plants to hard?)
Substrate - Akadama pre-soaked in water laced with PO4, NO3 and ferts (Could this be the problem?)
Ferts - EI using 4ppm PO4, 40ppm NO3 and 40ml AE trace three times a week
Filter - Eheim 2080
Livestock - Currently only 16 ottos, but will be adding lots of cherry shrimp tonight.
CO2 - added, bit its tricky getting it stable in such a big tank.  It takes hours for the levels to show up after I change the rate.  The DC has been from yellow to bottle green (i.e. dark green) but its never been into the 'blue range.'

To start with the HC grew but slowly (even under the 3x54w) and was very long and thin with few leaves.  Following this it turned brown and dont grow before pretty much dieing.  This is very similar to the problem I had in my nano which was due to the lighting, which I solved by running one tube instead of the previous 2 and raising the lighting upwards away from the tank to reduce the intensity.

Needless to say I've removed all the HC, the roots of which weren't 100% dead but it was getting that way, only one or two very very small leaves left.  I did suffer with quite a nasty bout of darn green/black fluffy algae (new filter troubles) which did swamp the plants a bit, but the ottos are getting on top of that a last.  Could the algae actually have killed the plants?

Sorry this is all a bit vague, I'm totally stumped.  I really think it could be the T5 lighting, its just so darn powerful that the plants cant cope.  If only I could switch back to my trusty Freshwater T8 tubes! 

 Any advice, gratefully received!  

Thanks

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (15 Sep 2008)

If I had to hazard a guess I would say it is a case of CO2 level, or more likely CO2 distribution.

The alage won't have helped and if the plants are damaged from it then any other problems will be exacerbated.

As I have never had anything above a 3 foot tank I wouldnt feel confident dispensing advice, so will wait until one of the sages drops by this post...


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Sep 2008)

Sam your problem is poor CO2 or poor flow. Increase the injection rate and turn it on earlier. I would refrain from adding more livestock until this is resolved.

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

My thoughts were CO2 when the problem first reared its head, so I ran the CO2 into the yellow to start with but that didnt seem to stop it from happening.  The outlet does seem to disperse the CO2 well around the tank and I can see the water moving around the tank so it'll be getting to most if not all places.  Also, would this not manifest itself in some areas being affects but others not?  I.e those closes to the CO2 should be ok?

Thanks for the help, once I get it fixed it'll actually be worth starting a journal! 

Sam


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Sep 2008)

Unless you can track the CO2 concentration at all points in the tank it's difficult to say. What sort of flow rate do you have, what diffusion system is there and how are the outlets positioned? A picture of the installation would actually help the diagnosis. Forget about aesthetics, we're trying to troubleshoot so give us pictures...

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

I'll get a piccy up later as Im at work (dont tell the boss!).  Diffusion is via a glass diffuser directly below a glass lily outlet, the stream of which pushes 95% of the bubbles down into the centre of the tank, with few reaching the surface before they have all but dissolved into the water.  The filter is the 2080 you recomended clive, with an intake at either end of the tank.

Sam


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

I have recently added a 600lph internal to the tank, which I guess will be helping with flow rate and diffusion, but that only got added two days ago.  

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (15 Sep 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help, once I get it fixed it'll actually be worth starting a journal!
> Sam



Actually I think the 'warts and all' journals are the best ones  :!:


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Yeh I realised that.  Once I get is sorted and have the motivation to get excited about my tank I'll start it, with a 'warts and all' account of what happened.  

Does anyone else find that their motivation for this hobby (and forum) rely heavily on how well their tanks are doing?  

Sam


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Sep 2008)

Well, you know what I think of lilly pipes in a big tank. I'm sure I would have also recommended using 3-4 feet worth of spraybars mounted at the back. The 2080 is still 1000 LPH short of the recommended flow and even with the 600LPH internal your distribution _patterns_ are far from ideal (but it should help.) I reckon 4 ft tanks and above need at least 2 diffusers and I'm convinced that external diffusion works best unless you have truly epic levels of flow. 

Cheers,


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

I'm with Ceg on the low flow theory. I did a quick rummage and most 4 foot tanks are in the 300l area, I'd want to run 2 filters on a tank that large as I've first hand experiance with terrible flow and the algae than ensues. 
Regretting selling your 2400 yet?


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Righty ho, I'll move the diffuser so the CO2 goes directly into the intake so it diffuses in the filter, rather than in the tank.

I can add a powerhead if you think that might help? How should I position it?

Thanks again.

Sam


----------



## JamesC (15 Sep 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Substrate - Akadama pre-soaked in water laced with PO4, NO3 and ferts (Could this be the problem?)
> Ferts - EI using 4ppm PO4, 40ppm NO3 and 40ml AE trace three times a week


Pre-soaking Akadama with PO4 and NO3 won't really do much as they are anions (positively charged). It's only cations that Akadama holds on to. But saying that it won't do any harm unless you've got masses in there. I mainly pre soak CA++ and Mg++ to stop the water's KH dropping. As a side note I'm experimenting with Osmocote in the substrate and having good results.

Are you adding 4ppm PO4 and 40ppm NO3 3x a week? That's 12ppm PO4 and 120ppm NO3 in a week.


Never thought that internal diffusers work that well in large tanks TBH. 

James


----------



## a1Matt (15 Sep 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> I can add a powerhead if you think that might help? How should I position it?
> Sam



Thats the million dollar question!  I assume that is why Clive was after pics of your layout so that you can address where the flow is low\poor.


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Right cheers for the clarification James, I wouldn't bother pre-soaking the akadama next time! 

Yes adding the dose 3x a week.  I much prefer to have too much than not enough.

Sam

PS - Gareth - nope not at all, it was too darn noisy for my liking!  I might be able to talk my wife into getting two eheims but I think that'll take some doing!  It'd also mean I'd have four intakes in the tank!  Madness! 

PPS - tank is 255lt if you go on the diemtions, however it didn't take much more than 200lt to fill it once the substrate was in.


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

:O They're noisy?!
4 intakes wouldn't be a bad thing, just think of the flow, also I bet you wouldn't see them if you placed them creatively.


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

Here's an idea, rather than another filter why not get an external large turnover pump and attach it to a co2 reactor then attach a set of lilys, you'd never know it's got no filter there and it'd be cheaper.


----------



## JamesC (15 Sep 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Yes adding the dose 3x a week.  I much prefer to have too much than not enough.



WOW that is a lot. Shrimp will start dying at those NO3 levels. Having NO3 levels that high is detrimental to the plants IMHO. I dose 10ppm NO3 a week compared to your 120ppm. Standard EI adds about 24ppm NO3 a week and I'm sure I read somewhere that Tom B. doses 1/2 EI which equates to 12ppm per week. I see no reason to go above the standard EI dosing levels which are more than adequate except for the most extreme lighted tanks.

James


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

I've taken to running EI high due to previous problems with HC not getting enough NO3.  I'll swap back to half that dose.  It's not like the plants are growing at the moment anyway!

Sam

Edit - Gareth - yes very!  Well certainly too noisy to be in my sitting room which is where the tank is.  I guess you've got to expect a bit of noise from a filter that is supposed to run at 2400lph!

I'll look into your idea about the pump, as you say it wouldn't matter if it didn't actually have a filtering aspect to it and it'd be easy to hide as well.  Cheers.


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

Is it at all possible that they're going through a transformation? I lost my first batch of HC this way and it soon sprung back.


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Perhaps, I had thought that myself, but the growth was none existent and it's been 4ish weeks so I dont think it was that.

Got any thoughts on a suitable pump?  It _has _to be quite!

Sam


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

Not a clue, It was something I was considering for my tank but I really could do with a better filter. 
I'm sure practical fishkeeping did a sump pump test. Eheim do them so do aquamedic.
Ask a reefer, they're likely to know better than any of us.


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Will do, cheers 

Sam


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

Aquamedic do a 2000lph pump for Â£45, a veritable bargain for that kind of turnover, and it uses just 12w.


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Is that the PH 2000?


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

Yeah, I just found the review. Maxijets are supposed to be silent too. There's a 3000lph one of those!


----------



## a1Matt (15 Sep 2008)

then there is the Hydor Koralia range of flow pumps as well.  Am probably going to get one of these myself sometime soon.


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

They're internal though. In this instance I was suggesting an external pump so that it's outside the tank and it can power an external reactor.


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

Right some photos as promised.

Full tank, intakes on either side.






Left side, with extra internal and filter intake in corner





Right side with 2nd intake, outlet and CO2 diffuser





Close up of the DC near top of tank on right side, its actually a bit greener than it looks here, but still in the yellow/green range





The 2nd DC close the bottom of the tank at the other end of the tank to the diffuser, difficult to see but it too is in the yellow/green range.





Close up of the diffuser with the bubbles being blow around the tank, I think!





And finally too of the glosso thats been in the tank a week, you can see the algae and the fact that the leaves really aren't right.









Any words of wisdom?

Sam


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Sep 2008)

Well, I'd probably move that internal to the center back wall for starters.  I'd think you'd want to push as much water down to the substrate. How many hours into the photoperiod do you get this color on the drop checker? Also, try moving that first dropchecker near the substrate. I can't see the point measuring  the CO2 levels at the surface right now. How much time prior to lights on is the gas on? You may need to think about pushing that time back an hour or so as well as increasing the injection rate.

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (15 Sep 2008)

I'll move the internal 

CO2 is on 24/7 so it never drops below that level shown, its often bordering on the yellow in the morning, with it getting slightly greener as the day goes on.

Just in case its of any interest/use lights are on for 6hours currently.

Sam


----------



## Garuf (15 Sep 2008)

I just had an even better thought, you could use a needle wheel pump rather than an external reactor. You'd get a much better mist and your levels would be much easier to regulate.


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Sep 2008)

Well, if you drive to higher levels 24/7 you risk losing your fish. I guess you have a good reason for the 24/7 approach so the only other option may be to supplement via Excel, which on this size tank is handcuff city. Yet another scenario of self imprisonment by adding livestock earlier than necessary....

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

I had to add the ottos to get rid of the algae! 

I can easily remove them? and wack up to the CO2?

Sam


----------



## Ray (16 Sep 2008)

Sam,

Hang in there.  My _cryptocoryne parvula_ looks exactly like this too:





This weekend I wanted to take a baseball bat to my tank.  I did a 90% water change, snipped off a million algae coated leaves and next morning I had milky water - bacterial bloom or Aqauasoil particles, I can't say.     Still milky when I got home from work last night but bizzarely, after lights and CO2 running for 4 hours it was crystal clear and a little pearling on some of my crypts.   I'm feeling a bit more zen now...

I thought it was ammonia triggered by my Aquasoil, but maybe its a generic new tank, bacteria not established, leaves transitioning to underwater thing?  Anyway, cheapest solution I can see is to plumb a CO2 reactor - Aquamas or Aquamedic (if Green Machine can get with 16mm fittings) - on your existing filter and put a nice Koralia 2 at the far end to boost flow right back down the tank completing the circle.  Or do like Clive and James and use spraybars.  If you plumb a normal powerhead or your internal to output into a spraybar right down the back of the tank that will pass water accross the top, down the front and along the carpet.  Another thought, maybe you could use a Koralia to blow your CO2 mist directly down the tank above the carpet?  I think Ed does something like that.

Oh, sympathy on the Tetratrec too - my 1200ex was so noisy I was almost relieved when it turned out to be faulty.  Glad yours was sucking air and not the opposite like mine


----------



## PM (16 Sep 2008)

For the record, I filled my 54 liter tank with HC, and I was using 96 watts of T5 for 10 hours a day!  And the HC loved all the light, it grew low and dense.


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Sep 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> For the record, I filled my 54 liter tank with HC, and I was using 96 watts of T5 for 10 hours a day!  And the HC loved all the light, it grew low and dense.



Yes but I'll bet you added CO2 right? It's 10X easier to have good flow and CO2 saturation in 10 gallon tank than in a 100 gallon tank. You don't need 7 WPG to grow carpet plants.


Cheers,


----------



## PM (16 Sep 2008)

yep, lots of co2


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

Just so I'm not relying on you guys to be too prescriptive, what is the aim of increasing the flow?  Reduce the barrier effect?  I can only assume that the CO2 _is_ diffusing into the water due to the DC's but despite this is not actually getting to the plant leaves?  

If I were to put a powerhead into the tank, any advice on where it should go?

Thanks for the word of encouragement Ray  I get HC to grow nicely in my nano, but as Clive says its easier to get good flow in a 25lt tank!

Sam


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Sep 2008)

Sam, the issue is discussed a little bit in this recent thread viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2965

In smaller spaces it's easier to move the smaller mass of water. In larger volumes the average velocity at any one point in the tank is lower because the energy of the inflow peters out by the time it gets to the far reaches of the tank. Think of kicking a football in an indoor gymnasium. It's fairly easy to get the ball from one end to the other but suppose you were at Wembly. You'd have to kick a lot harder to get that ball to the other end and you'd probably pull a groin muscle trying...

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

Right I see, boundary layer.  I'll chuck in the powerhead and look to get an external pump to hook up to the tank to increase flows as well.  I guess this would explain why the plant die, i.e. the light forces them to work harder than they are able to get nutrients, so they burn out and die.

I just hope it works!

Much appreciated Clive 

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (16 Sep 2008)

Please let us know how you get on with the external pump Sam   I'm curious to see what make\model you get, how quiet it ease, the difference it makes, etc...


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

Right I see, Im the guinea pig once again!   I was hoping for that information from someone else!  I've already lost 70quid being experimental with the ex2400 filter!  Doh!

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (16 Sep 2008)

Well if you take your time I might beat you to it!   

I have a 3ft/160l and am also experiencing flow problems.  Mine is due to increased biomass. I have gone from what I considered a healthy all round flow to having a 'dead spot' that is about 1 foot by 1 foot long and goes from the substrate up to about 6"  I am in the (very slow) process of putting in an external reactor.  That may necessitate an inline pump to drive it.  If it does I will let you know how I get on.  If it doesn't I will opt for an internal flow pump (Hydor Koralia 1).  Worst case I will get both an inline pump and an internal flow pump!


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

Right please do keep me posted.  I'm gonna try my smaller powerhead in the tank first to see if that works, if not I'll probably get the eheim compact+ 3000 and run that externally.  It gets good reviews and by all accounts in quite, but it ain't cheap!

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (16 Sep 2008)

I will definitely keep you posted.

The eheims do look good, and they have low power consumption considering the amount of flow you get from them.
I don't know how many years you would have to run it before the electricity savings outweigh that extra inital outlay that an Eheim incurs over a.n.other brand, but at least the concept that it will be 'cheaper in the long run'  should soften the blow somewhat 

The other consideration on top of flow is head height.  I want to be confident that the pump won't loses all its power\flow by the time it reaches the tank.  2m of tubing, a reactor, a heater, and some bends and curves are bound to take some toll and by studying the head height specs\flow curves you can get a picture of this before taking the plunge.  

This is all theoretical still for me, I have no practical experience with inline pumps - so I could just be over complicating things.  Thats the joy of this forum, we can bounce these ideas around with eachother  8)


----------



## Themuleous (16 Sep 2008)

Yeh exactly, glad its not only me that finds the hobby darn tricky to get their head around! 

Always learning...

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (16 Sep 2008)

It is definitely not just you   

With the support of like minded people I quite like the challenge   Always learning sums it up quite nicely  8)


----------



## Garuf (16 Sep 2008)

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -1056.html

Â£45 posted. It's also cheaper than I could find on ebay.
You looking at getting a reactor as well or leaving it as internal glassware?


----------



## Ray (16 Sep 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/catalog/eheim-compact-3000-pump-15003000-ltrhr-p-1056.html
> 
> Â£45 posted. It's also cheaper than I could find on ebay.
> You looking at getting a reactor as well or leaving it as internal glassware?



55w power consumption?!  Seems more effective to get a Koralia 2 - moves 2300lph, 34 UK pounds uses only 4.5w.

Put the reactor on your filter - it will reduce flow slightly but it won't matter - filtration will still be as effective as before and compared to the flow from the powerhead distributing CO2 and nutrients, its not an issue.

Am I missing something?


----------



## a1Matt (16 Sep 2008)

Well I was talking cr*p when I said the Eheim pumps have low power consumption!


----------



## LondonDragon (16 Sep 2008)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> Well I was talking cr*p when I said the Eheim pumps have low power consumption!


And you seen how ugly they are compared to Koralias??


----------



## Garuf (16 Sep 2008)

I'm not sure if Sam is going with my idea of having the pump externally or not but the main thought was that it would be less junk in the tank. 

Yes, you could put a powerhead in there but why bother when you then have to hide them and impair there effectiveness or have to look at them every day cluttering up the tank. Regardless of make no powerhead is pretty. Mounting a pump externally would not only be out of sight and less of an eye sore but it also removes the ugly part from the tank only needing an inflow and out flow which are I'm sure you'll agree are far less intrusive. Going about it this way also provides a useful base on which to add accessories that would normally hinder the filter ie a co2 reactor, external heater, uv filter etc.  View it as adding another filter but without the filter media. Yes power consumption is higher but you can get lower watt pumps, the lowest I've found is 45watt yes it's high but it turns over 3000lph+ and has the power to allow for "head" something an internal would never be capable of if used in this capacity and negates the extra power consumption. It's a matter of thinking just what is the most important, if it's aesthetics then you have to go about things differently to achieve good results than if you don't mind having a powerhead or other accessories in-tank and distracting from the aesthetics. Either method has pluses and negatives you have to chose which set are more important to you. 

Sorry to clog up your thread Sam.   Quiet the rant.


----------



## Themuleous (17 Sep 2008)

Thanks for the link Gareth, thats the one I was looking at and it seems to get good reviews from what I can tell, quite too.

Yep I'm going for the external pump idea, most likely with glassware as it just helps the tank not to look so cluttered.

Having the pump below the tank is probably the reason for the power consumption, it'll have to pump the water a 5ish foot up into the tank.  If it sorts the plants Im happy to go with the external and pay the extra electricity.  I'm on a hydro tariff so I can sleep easy at night 

Sam


----------



## Themuleous (17 Sep 2008)

Have just ordered an Eheim compact+ 3000 from Aquatics online together with 2lt of excel, not cheap but it got me free postage, and I'm sure I'll use it eventually!

I dont think I'll be running a CO2 reactor off it for the time being, as I quite like the look of glassware and its working for me at the moment so I'll leave things to stabilise before I start changing things to much.  My bank account needs time to recover as well!

Sam


----------



## Dave Spencer (17 Sep 2008)

Sorry Sam, but I can`t be bothered to read all of this thread.   Going back to the beginning, how did you go about planting the HC? If it was emersed growth in the pots, what I do is leave them in the pots underwater with good CO2, ferts etc for two or three weeks. Then I plant them out individually, almost burying the entire plantlet. I have great results with this method, but the HC does take a little while to kick off. I now find it a bit of a nuisance because it keeps popping up out of nowhere and outcompeting my UG.

I think the shock of suddenly becoming immersed, plus being planted out can be a bit too much for it, especially in a new tank where the CO2 levels haven`t yet been sorted.

I have just started a 120cm 2.5 weeks ago and am using an Aquamas CO2 reactor, with 2 Tetratec 1200s blowing in from either side. Flow distribution around the tank seems pretty good so far. Your internal looks a monstrosity to me.

By the way, I can`t help but think you have a very low plant mass. In my 120cm, to stave early algae problems I have carried out the following steps:

Used mature filter media.
High CO2 from the word go.
Short photo period that will slowly be extended in time and intensity.
50% water changes every day for the first two weeks, gradually decreasing to once a week over the next month.
Zeolite and Purigen in the filter.
Fast growing stems planted, that may make way later on for Crypts etc.

Make sure you hammer the water changes, Sam.

Dave.


----------



## Themuleous (17 Sep 2008)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Sorry Sam, but I can`t be bothered to read all of this thread.



I dont blame you! 

Thanks for the advice, I planted the HC pretty much as you said and I've used it lots of time in my nano with good results.  I knew I had done it all wrong with just using HC from the off but hey I wanted to try it out and I guess I'm paying the price!  I did have major problems with the filter though so that really didnt help with the initial algae control, once the HC started dieing the NH3 being produced was just to much for the two small internals I had in there to cope with, so I was running a 1ppm NH3 for a good few weeks.  Once I hooked up the replacement eheim 2080 NH3 and NO2 went to zero within a week.

That internal you can see is a UV rather than being a biological or mechanical filter and it wont be in there forever just for the time being.

Thinking back to it, the whole flow thing really makes sense in that when I first set the tank up I was running a ex2400 which produced a massive flow in the tank and the HC pearled like mad and it cant have been to long after taking it out (due to it being faulty) that the HC all went belly up, the HC was growing great to start with, honest! 

What does Tom Barr always say about 90-95% of problems being CO2 related?   I just hadn't twigged that just cos I was putting lots of CO2 into the tank, didn't necessarily mean the plants were able to get hold of it.

BTW how noisy due you find the ex1200?

Sam


----------



## Dave Spencer (17 Sep 2008)

There are two running on the same tank in the GF`s living room. There is a gentle background hum, but they are competing with two little girls.  

Dave.


----------



## nrwatson (18 Sep 2008)

I am a bit worried that the eheim pump will be a bit noisy for you


----------



## Themuleous (18 Sep 2008)

Ar crap, but say that! Its arriving today.  At least begin relatively small I can wrap it in padding to dampen the noise.  The 2080 filter has a hum to it already so hopefully it wont be any nosier than that.

Sam


----------



## Themuleous (18 Sep 2008)

Well Ive just hooked up the eheim compact+ 3000 which is currently running at the full 3000lph (or rated to be )  this combined with my eheim 2080 gives me a rated flow rate around the tank of 4700lph, is that enough flow in a 250lt tank?    18.8x per hour?!?! and I reckon given that there is no filter media the pump is likely to actually be running at more like 3000lph, ok not the full due to the 2feet it has to pump the water up and into the tank but pretty close.  Best of all I can't hear the pump over the hum of the filter, which is a huge relief.

I have to say, I know they can cost more, but Ive decided I'm an eheim man, the equipment is absolutely top notch.

Lets just hope it does the trick and the plants start to recover!

Sam


----------



## a1Matt (19 Sep 2008)

I'm really pleased for you that it all hooked up no problem and is nice and quiet    I'll keep my fingers crossed that it does the trick.


----------



## Themuleous (19 Sep 2008)

Cheers 

Sam


----------



## Garuf (19 Sep 2008)

Pictures, Sam. We need pictures! How did you rig it all up?


----------



## Ray (20 Sep 2008)

Keep us posted Sam, very very interested to know how you get on because I too, am Always Learning...


----------



## Themuleous (20 Sep 2008)

Will do Ray, I'll try and start the journal soon.  The Glosso seems to have picked up a bit, which is a tentative good sign.

Sam


----------



## John Starkey (20 Sep 2008)

Hi Sam,as you know from a personal veiwing i run my two eheim 2028s at a very high turn over and my plants and fish are doing even better than when you last saw them, my co2 is 4bps so again high but with the surface agitation i think this is ok and by looking at my setup the plants speak for themselfs,now haveing just returned from italy today 20th sept i left my son the set rules for the week,basically i halfed everything ie,macros/micros,fish food the only thing i left the same was easylife easycarbo at 5mls per day, well when i looked at mysetup it was awesome everything is so healthy the plants look so clean (no algae any where)so i may have found the right balance that suits MY setup, because worcester water is high in N and P so i think i may have been overdoing the dosing hense the slight algae here and there,by the way i only run my t5s for eight hours a day,my co2 comes on two hours before my lights, so it is near to optimum levels when lights on,take care john.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Sep 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> i run my two eheim 2028s



2? what size tank you got john? im after another filter on my big tank. already got one 2028 might get another


----------



## John Starkey (20 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> john starkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Mark,my tank is 5x2x2 regards john.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Sep 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,my tank is 5x2x2 regards john.



hi mate, thats a big one   see why you need 2 2028's


----------



## a1Matt (29 Sep 2008)

Themuleous said:
			
		

> Well Ive just hooked up the eheim compact+ 3000 which is currently running at the full 3000lph (or rated to be )  this combined with my eheim 2080 gives me a rated flow rate around the tank of 4700lph, is that enough flow in a 250lt tank?    18.8x per hour?!?! and I reckon given that there is no filter media the pump is likely to actually be running at more like 3000lph, ok not the full due to the 2feet it has to pump the water up and into the tank but pretty close.  Best of all I can't hear the pump over the hum of the filter, which is a huge relief.
> 
> I have to say, I know they can cost more, but Ive decided I'm an eheim man, the equipment is absolutely top notch.
> 
> ...



How are things looking now Sam?


----------

