# removing algae



## fishkeeper (8 Jun 2008)

my tank and plants are covered in algae but i dont know what type it is. Ive looked in the article about algae but im baffled.
As its quite tough to pull off my plants, how do i remov it without removing the full plant? Some of it is easy as it is just long strands but others it is not easy at all. Im doing a 50% water change tonight, will this help at all?

Thanks

Will


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## aaronnorth (8 Jun 2008)

What does it look like? can you get a pic?


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## ceg4048 (8 Jun 2008)

Will,
       Also lets get an idea of your tank size, your filtration, your lighting, you fish stocking, your fertilization routine, your CO2 routine etc.

Cheers,


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## fishkeeper (8 Jun 2008)

got some pics, not the best as they are from my phone:











My tank is a juwel rio 125, the filtration is the juwel internal which does 600lph. My lighting is 2x28 watt t5s (juwel ones) one nature and one daylight.
I have the following fish:
2 blue rams
1 albino rainbow shark
1 platy
4 bronze corydoras
8 cardinal tetras
5 rummy nose tetras 
5 harlequins
i'm under the impression that im just right at stocking (well thats what my lfs said and i trust them)

my co2 is one diy canister of the yeast mix, the box said the setup is suitable for tank up to 150l, i try to get 1 bubble per second and i have been getting that for a long time. the kit is the hydor green nrg fermentation.

2 times per week i dose tetra plantamin (it says it contains all needed additives) and i think iput in about 5ml per week in 2 doses.

hope that helps

Will


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## ceg4048 (8 Jun 2008)

Hi Will,
          Yes, thanks for the additional data. It helps quite a great deal. I can tell you right away that your dosing scheme is completely inadequate because Tetra Plantamin is just a trace element. Even at that you are not adding very much at all so you are basically dependent on whatever nutrients are in your tap water. 60 watts of T5 on a 30 gallon tank is a fair amount of light, but unless you add the most important nutrients (Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium) your plants will continue to starve and this is the root of your algae problems.

You can easily get a grip on this by using an all in one solution such as Tropica TPN+ or, you can purchase the individual dry salts and dose either EI as described in the Tutorial section (  viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211)or PMDD such as the scheme found on JamesCs website=> http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/dosing-methods.htm

You also need a better way to determine the CO2 level in the tank using a dropchecker and 4dkh distilled water. See this article=> viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467

Cheers,


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

thanks, so  if i buy a drop checker and a 4dkh solution this will measure my co2 and i can give an accurate reading and if i buy some tpn+ shoudl my algae eventually go away? Will a 250ml bottle be ok? The price is a little steep for me   
So, after all that, what type of algae is it? And how do i go about removing it before i get the tpn+.

I thought the tetra stuff was the best stuff as it said contains all trace elements and thats wot i thought i needed.

Thanks

Will


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## ceg4048 (9 Jun 2008)

Will,
       Trace elements are like vitamin tablets. Yes you need them but do you think you could live on vitamins alone? Think about it for a second - that's why they call it "Trace" elements. Plants only need a trace. How much Iron, copper, or zinc or manganese do you think any living organism can swallow? Not a whole lot. Now think about the building blocks of life - proteins, enzymes and nucleic acids and so forth. What are they made out of? How about Nitrogen (N) combined with Carbon (C) to build chlorophyll, DNA and RNA? No nitrogen no DNA, no chlorophyll - no plant. 

Think about how living cells are powered. They need a very active ingredient like Phosphorous (P) which is so active it glows in the dark. It's so active we use it in light bulbs. Plants use Phosphorous  the same way we do in a lamp. It's used to transfer energy by electron movement. When there is insufficient Phosphorous this is like having a dim light bulb. No energy, no plant.

Potassium (K) is also a very energetic metal. Plants use it as a catalyst in the myriad of chemical reactions that are constantly occurring within and between the  cells.

So plants need N, P, K and C in the same way and in the same relative quantities that you and I need meat and potatoes. 

Given the right quantities, TPN+ will provide the plants with NPK so they will stop dying of starvation and eventually that will arrest the formation of algae. The dropchecker filled with 4dkH water will help you to ascertain how much C you are injecting.

Asking how much TPN+ you will need is like asking how much food you will need. As long as you want the plants to live you will constantly need to feed them so after the 250ml bottle of TPN+ is empty in a month or so you'll need to buy more. Yes, I consider the price very steep, and that's why I suggested that you buy the dry powders to make your own TPN+. For a little more than that Â£10 for the 250ml bottle of TPN+ you can buy the raw ingredients and make almost a year's supply of homegrown.

The photos aren't real clear but it looks like some BGA mixed with Oedogonium and maybe GSA. I'm not sure but whatever they are it's a sure bet that they are there due to extreme starvation so at this point I don't really care what they are.  The bottom line is to get your plants fed by hook or by crook. If you want to save money then you'll have to study that dosing article I gave you the link for and ask further questions if any of it is unclear.

Cheers,


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

thanks Ceg, you've really helped a lot   

if you don't mind me asking, what poweders shoudl i look out for to make my own tpn+ equivalent?

im currently looking on aqua essentials so ill provide some links and ill ask you if they are worth getting


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

so ive looked here http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... 20a&page=1

ive seen potassium sulphate and nitrate? Now from my chemistry lessons i know that ammonia nitrate is used as a fertiliser, so this suggests to me that potassium nitrate is the way to go?

when my dad gets home, i now have an argument to let him make an ae account to buy some goodies    

Will


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## aaronnorth (9 Jun 2008)

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

here is the solution by James for a DIY TPN+

If you are going down the EI route, then you need:

KNO3 - potassium nitrate
KH2PO4 - potassium phosphate
trace elements

GH booster if you have a gh less than 4

also consider garden direct, higher quantity and cheaper.

http://www.gardendirect.co.uk/fertilise ... 2&sort=20a


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

right so shopping list is as follows:

KNO3 - potassium nitrate
KH2PO4 - potassium phosphate
trace elements (i got about 40ml left of these) 

co2 drop checker and 4dkh solution

if i mix these salts up together (kno3 and kh2po4) is it ok to buy the trace elements salts and mix them to this? Is tap water ok to use? I may be able to use some RO later but not immediately.

Thanks

Will


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## ceg4048 (9 Jun 2008)

fishkeeper said:
			
		

> right so shopping list is as follows:
> 
> KNO3 - potassium nitrate
> KH2PO4 - potassium phosphate
> ...



Shopping list looks OK to me. Make your life easy and use tap water to mix them up. There is no advantage in using RO. DO NOT mix the trace elements with the nitrate and phosphate. Make two separate mixes. The reason is that some of the elements in the trace mix will combine with the Phosphate and may precipitate out of solution. It then takes longer for these precipitates to find their way into the plant because they can then only be taken up by the roots.

Cheers,


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

about to buy, im geting the drop checker of ebay as they look like the boyu type 1 checkers. How long does aqua essentials delivery take approx?

Thanks for your input guys, hopefully i will see some good results   

Will


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## JamesM (9 Jun 2008)

fishkeeper said:
			
		

> about to buy, im geting the drop checker of ebay as they look like the boyu type 1 checkers. How long does aqua essentials delivery take approx?
> 
> Thanks for your input guys, hopefully i will see some good results
> 
> Will


AE are super quick with deliveries. 1 or 2 days is usually the max


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## fishkeeper (9 Jun 2008)

JAmesM said:
			
		

> fishkeeper said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not bad at all, my order is now going to be paid through


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## Egmel (10 Jun 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> DO NOT mix the trace elements with the nitrate and phosphate. Make two separate mixes. The reason is that some of the elements in the trace mix will combine with the Phosphate and may precipitate out of solution. It then takes longer for these precipitates to find their way into the plant because they can then only be taken up by the roots.


Unless you're using James' all-in-one version with the ascorbic acid and potassium sorbate which stops this from happening.  Both are readily available on ebay


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## fishkeeper (12 Jun 2008)

well, i added 50mls yesterday evening of diy tpn+ (well those chemicals above), i know i added too much but today, afteri removed the algae with a water change i can see not much algae at all now so im very pleased   

ill now dose 4mls every other day? or 4mls every 3 days?

Thanks


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## ceg4048 (12 Jun 2008)

It's not really clear exactly how much of what that you added. Can't assess 50ml or 4 ml unless we know how you prepared your solution. :? 

Cheers,


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## fishkeeper (12 Jun 2008)

700ml tap water

3tsp KNO3
1.5 tsp KH2PO4


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## ceg4048 (12 Jun 2008)

OK, based on the standard EI dosing you would dose 60mls of this solution 3 times per week. A dosage should be applied immediately after your weekly water changes assuming you do a weekly 50% water change, which you should be doing.  

Cheers,


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