# PH a bit above 8



## kadoxu (27 Aug 2016)

Hi,

I set up a new tank a couple of days ago (check my journal) and the water PH is a bit over 8.
I'm using tap water, and according to the water company's water quality report it's usually between 7.5 and 8.2.

Should I just leave it be, or should I do something to lower it a bit?

Thank you


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## zozo (27 Aug 2016)

It might well be it raises a bit more when plants are metabolizing in it.. I have the excact same tap water parameters and mine stabelizes at ph 8.5 daytime and 8.2 nighttime in the tank. It's not dangerous most regular aquarium fish can handle it and addapt very well to it. I have a relative low kH 6, this results in almost no natural co2 according the chart it would be 0.8 ppm. But still plants grow..

Only thing to watch out for when ph is that high is in this thread
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ph-vs-calcium-deposite-on-plants.42044/

If you have a higher kH as well you could use filter peat, to lower the kH and also the pH a bit.. But this is temporary and you need to keep refreshing the peat from time to time and this can also stain your water significantly. Because i already got a relative low kH in a good range i do not want to lower it any further.. Playing around with low kH and make it lower there always is a risk to get a pH crash and that is not what we want. I'm not a fan off forcing ph down with foreign materials or chemicals, this is to labor intensive or needs to be automated with a dripping system, needs constant monitoring and can be dangerous if it fluctuates to much or even crashes. Rather just take it for granted that it will limit your plant choice a bit and all will go very much slower. 

If you realy want to do something about it rather invest in presurized co2

Till pH 8.5 is acceptable for most plants and fish.. Any higher gets tricky and is considered no good..


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## rebel (27 Aug 2016)

What zozo is trying to say is, just leave the ph alone.


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## zozo (27 Aug 2016)

rebel said:


> What zozo is trying to say is, just leave the ph alone.



Yes and no..  It would indeed be my personal choice just to leave it as is or go for a co2 instalation. But i also know people how play with these parameters with other means and have succes.. I guess it also depends a bit on you kH, if this is high enough it is less risky to play with it. I do not have experience with higher kh because i do not have it from the tap.

It's the same as working with DIY co2, you need to sit on it, constantly monitoring and adjusting.. If you have the time and means to put all this time and labor and husbandry in it. It can be done with great succes. Should you do it? That's a question you have to ask yourself after knowing with what risks you are dealing with.


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## kadoxu (27 Aug 2016)

zozo said:


> It might well be it raises a bit more when plants are metabolizing in it..


Yup, it did. I have a Seneye in there and I watched it raise  up to almost 8.5 while the lights were on. Now with the lights off, it's dropping as expected.
And my kH is 8.



zozo said:


> If you realy want to do something about it rather invest in presurized co2


I'm using liquid carbon, since it's such a small tank.



rebel said:


> What zozo is trying to say is, just leave the ph alone.


Yeah, that was the first thing I thought about doing, since I read that it's usually more important to have a stable PH than having it at a specific level... the thing is, I wasn't expecting it to be at such high levels, so wanted some opinions from you guys!  

Does an EI regime have an effect on PH and/or kH?


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## zozo (27 Aug 2016)

As far as i know EI regime does nothing with KH nor PH.. Most peopel use or Acid from a bottle, phosporic acid, vinigar can be use, some people use Oak leaf extract, Kapata leaf extract to lower the PH. But it doesn't hold very long, maybe a few hours and you'll see it rise again.. So you have to keep adding a dose over a daily schedule. The risk is the buffering capacity, you maybe start with adding 20 ml to lower it 1 ph unit and the next unit only need a few drops instead of ml. You are risking a PH crash and you do not see it comming slowly, you see it suddenly dive to ph 5 or 4 and then you have to do an emidiate waterchange or use PH+ again. And this is what you do not want in the tank, the fish and plants in there even less. The lower the KH is the sooner it will crash.

Other more steady and natural ways to lower PH is filter over peat, or use alder cones, or kapata leaves and or other leaves like oak, wallnut, beach but you would need rather a lot of this stuff and it also will stain your water tea colored. And they do not work for ever, this also you would need to keep adding and replaced each few weeks.
For a biotope setup this stained water can be what you want, it's a matter of preference, if you don't mind that throw a bag of peat in your filter and replece it every few weeks..

For a normal community tank, this is all to much hassle and it will not bring you any drastic extra benefits. I'm not even so sure about it if it will be cheaper as investing in a little co2 setup.. Since you have to keep buying liquid carbon, peat and whatever else you want to throw in.. Adding co2 will need a bit more investment to start it up, but in the long run it isn't more expensive, after you bought all the hardware needed you only need to buy co2. I run my 54 liter tank over a year with €25 co2.  Every day 2ml liquid carbon and every 6 weeks a new bag of peat will cost me more and has less effect.


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## kadoxu (28 Aug 2016)

zozo said:


> As far as i know EI regime does nothing with KH nor PH..


Yeah, that's what I thought... I was just wondering if it could be raising the PH somehow.



zozo said:


> I run my 54 liter tank over a year with €25 co2. Every day 2ml liquid carbon and every 6 weeks a new bag of peat will cost me more and has less effect.


My 19L tank is too small...  I only have to add less than 0.5ml daily or every other day! 

So, I'll leave it as it is for now and see how it evolves and if the tank cycles and settles down. But I really appreciate your comments and advice!

Thank you


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## dw1305 (28 Aug 2016)

Hi all, 





kadoxu said:


> I have a Seneye in there and I watched it raise up to almost 8.5 while the lights were on. Now with the lights off, it's dropping as expected.
> And my kH is 8.


The pH will be in that range with carbonate buffered water, it is to do with the <"CO2 carbonate equilibrium">. 

The pH goes up when the lights are on because the proportions of CO2 (down) and dissolved oxygen (up) change and oxygen is a base (O-H).   The liquid carbon can be utilised by the plants, but it doesn't form carbonic acid (H2CO3), so you don't get a pH reduction like you would if you added CO2.

cheers Darrel


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