# Algae outbreak when co2 and ferts added



## rubadudbdub (27 Oct 2015)

Hi guys, I've been lurking for a while but only just registered.  I need some advice about my tank, apologies for the long post.

It's a Rio 125 with t8 tubes 6500k bulbs on for 8 hours.  It's got tetra complete plant substrate under most of the gravel, partitioned into plastic food containers due to previously moving house frequently and needing to be able to remove substrate and plants without destroying the tank.

For years it's been a jungle of crypt wenditii and barely a spot of algae.  Maintenance was infrequent, shamefully often 4-6 weeks between water changes, no dosing with ferts or co2 but both the fish and crypts thrived. 

I got ideas above my station and thought I'd try growing something other than crypts and it's been problem after problem.

I pulled up some crypts and added hydrocotyle tripartita which was leggy and grew to the surface, contrary to along the gravel that I've seen everywhere else.  So I added an extra T5 on for 4 hours in the middle of the day, thinking it was reaching for the light.  I've also put in an echinodorus, heteranterus zostifolia, nymphoides and lileopsis.  Feeling keen I added fire extinguisher co2 dosed via glass ceramic disc diffuser and then got several huge outbreaks of blue green slime algae.  I followed the guide on James planted tank website and have done blackouts and put a 600lph power head attached to a spray bar from back to front glass.  Followed by another BG algae outbreak.  Nitrates tested low so I dosed with some macro nutrients from TNC, again another algae outbreak.

The plants I've picked are not complicated, yet I cannot seem to get the balance right and suspect fluctuating CO2 and nutrient levels are the problem. I've had a previous tank set up with dennerle substrate and gravel planted very heavily with vallis and crypts that, following comments in diane walstead's book, I slowly removed filter media and let the plants take up the nitrogen as ammonia.  This tank never had algae despite being well stocked with fish, lots of light with two power compact t5s and yeast CO2.  The current tank lacks anything that is growing as fast and easy like the vallis, which I think kept algae at bay before.  From the outset I was trying to repeat my previous effort, but have gone down the slippery slope of fixing higher tech problems with more tech, which was not the plan initially. I haven't yet dared to reduce the filter media like I did before because I don't have anything growing fast like the vallis that I trust to remove ammonia and keep the fish safe.

Im not after a lush amano tank, just something a little more interesting than just crypt wenditii and thought adding a small amount of extra light/CO2 would allow me to achieve this without going full on high tech.  Is it possible to have your cake and eat it?  I'd be very grateful if you guys could suggest a way of breaking this algae cycle and suggestions about which, if any, of the co2, ferts and light are helpful.  Or should I go back to square one and pick some plants that will suit a more lower tech approach?


----------



## Edvet (27 Oct 2015)

Pics?


----------



## rubadudbdub (27 Oct 2015)




----------



## rubadudbdub (27 Oct 2015)

The sorry looking ball of runners and stems floating is a mixture of lileopsis and hydrocotyle after I tried to remove the algae, pulling lots of it up in the process.


----------



## Edvet (27 Oct 2015)

Indeed doesn't look happy.
How much light is there atm?
I would start using floaters and add some easy plantmass , clear all the bad leaves, clean up the tank as good as possible, and start with large waterchanges (2x week 50%)
Low light and some CO2 to help growth, keep using EI. Do that for 3 weeks and you should see healthy growth then


----------



## aaron.c (27 Oct 2015)

Hey

I would be inclined to be brutal and throw away most of those plants.

Replace with a very large amount of fast growing plants to get some rapid bio mass in there.  I know this works as I did the same 6 months back when my tank was in a sorry state.

Sadly I took my eye off the ball with the ferts and the BBA has snuck in over the last few weeks, so about to add a load more plants this evening to show it the door.

Don't forget plants take a while to adjust to new conditions, where as Algae can take advatnage and propser much more quickly.  As such, changes should be slow and steady to avoid giving algae an unfair advantage.

Aaron


----------



## rubadudbdub (27 Oct 2015)

Thanks for your reply guys. 2x 18w T8  in the juwel light unit are on for 8 hours a day, 28w t5 4 hours.  I'm currently blacking the tank out to reduce the BG algae, which has worked well before.  I've done one large water change, I'll do a couple more this week.

I'll have a tidy and get more plants in. I'll turn off the t5 for now and switch it on again in a week or so.  CO2 I'll switch back on (it's off at present), but at a slow rate.  Once the plants are in I'll dose with the TNC complete. Does that sound ok?

Any suggestions for some fast growing plants to bulk it out?


----------



## Manuel Arias (27 Oct 2015)

rubadudbdub said:


> Any suggestions for some fast growing plants to bulk it out?



There are many stems plant for that._ Myriophyllum mattogrossense_ and _Cabomba sp._, for example. They are also easy to trim or unroot if you wish to change them later.


----------



## aaron.c (27 Oct 2015)

I put 10 of these in https://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/hygrophila-polysperma-p-4263.html. - hygrophila polysperma


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Manuel Arias (27 Oct 2015)

Yeah, good one, too.


----------



## PARAGUAY (27 Oct 2015)

Healthy Polysperma,Egeria,Cambomba or similar fast growers planted heavily initially will create the conditions to out compete the  algae in the early stages  allowing your chosen plants to establish.


----------



## aaron.c (28 Oct 2015)

Sounds like you have far too much light. I think you would have better success and an easier time if you removed some of the lights.

High light = high demand.  If you go high light you need to make sure everything else is in check, i.e stable CO2, plenty of ferts.  

I have two Grobeam 600's on my RIO 125, and I only run them at 40%.  It slows everything down and creates more wriggle room before the algae moves in


----------



## Edvet (28 Oct 2015)

2x 18W T8 doesn't sound like to much. New ones have 2x 28W T5


----------



## aaron.c (28 Oct 2015)

Edvet said:


> 2x 18W T8 doesn't sound like to much.


OP mentions an additional 28w T5 being historically on for 4 hours a day.


----------



## rubadudbdub (28 Oct 2015)

Thanks again for your replies.  I'll leave the t5 off for now.  Aaron what do you mean you only run your grobeams at 40%.  Surely they're either on or off? Or am I being daft?

I'm going to get a load more plants like those suggested above this weekend and will update how everything's going.


----------



## aaron.c (28 Oct 2015)

Hey!

The Grobeams are LED and on a controller, so I can set them at various powers 

Aaron


----------



## aaron.c (18 Nov 2015)

Hey! It has been a few weeks now, how are you getting on.  Did you get the stems in?


----------



## rubadudbdub (19 Nov 2015)

Plants have been in two weeks due to working night shifts delaying things. Two pots of h polysperma, two bunches of vallis, some floating phylanthus fluitans, an echinodorus magdalensis by the wood, hydrocotyle leucocephela on the left and sagitaria subulata.  All ordered from one of the sponsors on the forum and delivered very quickly.  I couldn't find myriophylium or egeria on their site but seem to be getting on OK with these so far.

2x18w t8s are on or 8 hours.  The co2 went on a week ago and I added a half dose of the TNC complete a few days ago.  So far algae is holding off and the polysperma are growing well. Thanks for all the advice guys.


----------



## Andy Thurston (19 Nov 2015)

2x t8 tubes are not very strong so it should be fairly easy to balance light and co2



rubadudbdub said:


> The co2 went on a week ago and I added a half dose of the TNC complete a few days ago.


if you dose tnc complete at the full dose 3x per week its equivalent to ei dosing. dont forget the 50% waterchange at the end of the week though.

Also what filter are you using? What is your total tank turnover?

It would also be a good Idea to put your diffuser directly under the powerhead inlet so all the bubbles get sucked in and distributed round the tank better?.


----------



## rubadudbdub (20 Nov 2015)

The diffuser is slightly under the powerhead for that reason but I'll move it up a bit so it's directly underneath. The tanks a rio125 juwel tank with filter and the pumps been swapped for the bigger 1000 or 1200lph powerhead to get more flow. With the 600lph powerhead on the spray bar I thought that'd be enough as its over 12x tank volume per hour.  This was done a while back in an attempt to get the algae under control.

I've only dosed the TNC once so far.  I wasn't planning on going full ei, mainly because I doubt I'll be able to keep up with the maintenance required.  I've also hopefully picked some simple plants to start with that are a little less labour intensive. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot only dosing once weekly? The aim is for a tank a bit lusher than the load of crypts that I had before, but by no means a full on high tech amano aquarium.


----------

