# What do I need for my first Shrimp Tank



## RolyMo

Hello
I am one year into fishkeeping and in my 180l tank I already have Amano and red cherry's shrimp.

I recently added some low grade CRS to the tank and promptly saw them disappear never to be seen again (i'm sure they are there. Just hiding). 

Which got me thinking that I saw in my LFS that they were getting rid of some display DO!Aqua tanks and if they were cheap enough then I could get one and make it a specific shrimp only tank.

My thinking so far and any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated.


The Do!Aqua tank and a Denearle corner filter and some sort of denearle light come in at £49. The size is the 36 x 22 x 26. LFS reckons £150 for the lot brand new.
Then I need some substrate. I have been using the Tropica stuff in my 180L is there any reason to switch to ADA Amazonia? Do the shrimp prefer dark substrate or light substrate, or does it depend on breed of shrimp?
Then I am thinking minimal plants. But then do you create the same elaborate environments for shrimp as for fish, or is it minimal so you get to see them? Guess no fish so no need for the shrimp to hide.
Will I need to fork out for elaborate CO2 system like my FE setup on the 180l or is there something cheaper I can get away with. Still want to automate it if necessary. 
Water is my only other thing I am thinking of. I live on the south coast of England which is hard water. For shrimps I am guessing I need to switch to RO because of the water hardness, which to me is a slight ball ache as it adds to the weekly cost and hassle of getting to a LFS to get RO water. Yes I am on a water metre, but I also have 2 kids!!! 
I am guessing I need to cycle the tank for 4-6 weeks before introducing the shrimp.
 
Anything else I need to be thinking of?
Cheers in advance.
R


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## mafoo

For CRS its reccomended:

60L tank
External filter
Buffering Substrate ADA stuff or FloraBase
RO with Salty Bee Minerals added and a A TDS tester (£10 on eBay)
Nothing in the hardscape that will raise the pH (ie, no landscape rock)
Some plants and mosses

If you want them to breed and the babies survive - Don't put a CO2 system in - it leads to a very high mortality rate in the shrimplets.

Cycling -  many will argue here but most breeders I've spoken to only cycle for a week as long as sufficeint starting bactieria is present (Mosura Stuff) and the pH of the tank is low enough. Whats more important is the time needed for a layer of micro-organism to populate the plants etc that the shrimp feed off.


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## RolyMo

Wow. Thanks Mafoo.
Very concise. Much appreciated.
If no CO2 system, am I adding liquid carbon or opting for a low tech setup?
Will go and research some more.
Thank you.
Roly


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## nduli

+ 1 for most of the stuff above. you can get tanks much smaller and you will see very successful tanks as low as 30L or less with internal, HOB or external filters, just make sure shrimp can't get into the filter and stay ontop of maintenance of filters and water changes the smaller the tank volume you go.
substrate wise i'd recommend EBI gold - sets the params perfectly.
stick to wood, inert rocks (or stay away from rocks if your unsure) moss and plants, the more plants the more secure they will feel but the less you will see of them but recognise that they constantly graze on the microfilm that exists on plants, wood and moss so without it they'll just have the stuff that grows on the substrate and tank parts and where is the fun in that......
i would recommend RO water but lots of people are very successful without it (see ady34 for a start).
for RO get 2 25L canisters and this will last for circa 4 weeks if you do a 10-20% water change each week...it costs me 5.50 - a month pint and a half where i live now 
do use a GH + supplement to re-mineralise the RO i use salty shrimp (salty shrimp gh+) and its great
do get a TDS meter and keep TDS between 130-180 (again others are successful with other params here but this is what has worked for me)
keep temperature stable - ideally circa 21
you don't need CO2, only if you are going to attempt to really grow on plants but it can be deadly if it runs off (came home one night to find 150+ shrimp and all the fish on their backs as the CO2 timer had broken and it had been dumping into the tank for 36hrs. fortunately i foudn it just in time and lost just 20 or so but would have been devastating if i had lost the lot (which has happened before but for a different reason)
get it set up and cycling, throw some in there and watch yourself as you find yourself looking for berried CRS all the time, immensley satisfying when it happens and highly addictive....


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## Spartacus

Hi Roly,

A few minor pointers for you if you are interested:

Dennerle Spares and pads for the filter can be expensive in the UK - An option is to import them and other fish bits from Amazon.de the shipping is £5 for the entire order regardless of size.

Mosura Products are very good for CRS & remineralising the RO water - You can buy a Dennerle RO machine to save going to the LFS.

Sponge filters are the way to go as they pose little threat to baby shrimp.

Best of luck with your efforts 

Murray


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## Andy Thurston

RolyMo said:


> . If no CO2 system, am I adding liquid carbon or opting for a low tech setup?
> Will go and research some more.
> Thank you.
> Roly


Theres lots of info on lc being toxic to shrimp in this thread but it can be used
Glutaraldehyde | Page 7 | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## basil

Get an airstone in there. Quite often overlooked, and took me a while to latch onto this, but I wouldn't have a shrimp tank without one now. Just make sure you pick a quiet air pump. I like Eheim and Tetratec as they are both nice and quiet. Shrimps natural environment is quite often shallow mountain streams, rich in O2. You'll notice your shrimp are more active and breed better for you


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## RolyMo

Blimey. Overwhelmed with the tips. Thank you.
nduli - A pint and half!!!! Blimey you have a very favourable pub near you. Hmm TDS meter that is a new one on me. Will have to look into that one. 
Murray - Cheers for the tip on Dennerle and pads. I have no clue as what brands are good in the fish/shrimp keeping world. Clearly ADA is the designer stuff. Eheim appear to be at the top as well. So I am seeing a trend that Germany appears to be corning the market on Fishkeeping as they do with cars.
Big Clown - Thank you yes, I had read somewhere on my travels about LC being toxic. I would rather not use LC as it adds to the cost. But sure I need to get CO2 to the plants somehow?
Basil - Ah ha airstone. That is not one I had thought of. Seems like I might be having to get a new power strip even for a small tank.

One thing is how do I work out the litre's on the tanks that just give dimensions. ie. the do!Aqua 36 x 22 x 26 does not show how many litres. Which is odd, as I read half the people on the forum talk in dimensions and the other half talk in litres.

I shall start to revise my shopping list and come back. Perhaps it is going to cost a bit more money that a couple of hundred quid.

Thanks all
Roly


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## RolyMo

Blimey. Overwhelmed with the tips. Thank you.
nduli - A pint and half!!!! Blimey you have a very favourable pub near you. Hmm TDS meter that is a new one on me. Will have to look into that one. 
Murray - Cheers for the tip on Dennerle and pads. I have no clue as what brands are good in the fish/shrimp keeping world. Clearly ADA is the designer stuff. Eheim appear to be at the top as well. So I am seeing a trend that Germany appears to be corning the market on Fishkeeping as they do with cars.
Big Clown - Thank you yes, I had read somewhere on my travels about LC being toxic. I would rather not use LC as it adds to the cost. But sure I need to get CO2 to the plants somehow?
Basil - Ah ha airstone. That is not one I had thought of. Seems like I might be having to get a new power strip even for a small tank.

One thing is how do I work out the litre's on the tanks that just give dimensions. ie. the do!Aqua 36 x 22 x 26 does not show how many litres. Which is odd, as I read half the people on the forum talk in dimensions and the other half talk in litres.

I shall start to revise my shopping list and come back. Perhaps it is going to cost a bit more money that a couple of hundred quid.

Thanks all
Roly


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## mafoo

Tank volume in Litres is Length (cm) * Width (cm) * Height (cm) / 1000 

TDS testers are cheap. This is the one i have.  Digital TDS Meter Tester Water Quality Filter Purity | eBay


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## nduli

Online aquarium volume calculator

Aquarium Volume Calculator


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## RolyMo

Nduli and mafoo thanks. 
Of course I had forgotten that simple calc. 
How reliable are these monitor things (the TDS)?

Also 60l was mentioned as a minimum. Is this a preference, a realisation that I'm a noob and that I need the larger tank as a safety buffer or the bigger the tank the more shrimp?

Thanks. 
R


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## sciencefiction

> How reliable are these monitor things (the TDS)?


I guess it would depend on the model you get but they are fairly reliable.




> Big Clown - Thank you yes, I had read somewhere on my travels about LC being toxic. I would rather not use LC as it adds to the cost. But sure I need to get CO2 to the plants somehow?


 
Have you thought of a Walstad tank, with normal soil beneath the substrate you'll use for a cap? CO2 is created via decomposition in the soil itself from organic matter in the soil and future deposits from the fish and food.  Have a look at Big Tom's and Alistairs low tech tanks on the links below for the perfect low tech tanks and possibly one of the best, if not the best I've seen regardless of the method. The only problem I see is that depending on the soil used you may not be able to get the TDS where you want it, so that would be the hardest choice if you are aiming at soft water. But either way if you are not using RO water, then there's hardly an easy way to get lower readings. I haven't kept CRS so I can't tell what their optimum conditions would be, but as any shrimp they'd appreciate the most stable ones regardless.

Tom's Bucket O' Mud - new riparian stuff | UK Aquatic Plant Society
A 'little' box of chocolates, licorice n all sorts short video | UK Aquatic Plant Society

And I've got two low techs setup this way myself, not nearly as good as the above tanks but plants really grow well.
The links are in my signature.


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## Spartacus

Hello Roly,

Hope you are well and thanks for the comment!

Germany seems to be much more shrimp orientated than in the UK.

Another good source for ordering bits is (Cant work out how to link properly) 

Dennerle | aquaristic.net

The Dennerle 60L tank is very nice and comes with all the parts required - All you would need to add is a heater (I have the 100w in my 60L) plants / shrimp and water.

Dennerle NanoCube Complete PLUS - 60 l 60 l | aquaristic.net

You can toggle between German & English on that shop to make life easier.

I will monitor the thread and try to assist when I can.

Best wishes,

Murray


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## basil

This site is very good, having everything you need from tank to shrimp. They have the dennerle tanks too 

Dennerle Scapers Tank Complete | Hobby Shrimp


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## RolyMo

Ah the same links and likewise thinking. Like it. Food for the thought with a kit with substrate. £170. As you say just need to add a heater a TDS thingy, plants and hardscape, ro, shrimp.


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## Gill

I would also recommend the calcium blocks, mineral stones, alder cones, indian almond leaves, gauva leaves.
Moss balls are great for shrimp and are very cheap if you search for the right seller on ebay.
I have Very hard water and find that adding alder cones and indian almond leaves helps alot.
Have kept sulawesi cardinals in the past In hard water without any problems.
I would also suggest buying your shrimp locally from a breeder, that way the are bred in your local water.
There are plenty of FB breeders pages, and they will be able to point you in the right direction.


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## RolyMo

Thanks Gill. Great tips, especially the hard water and breeder suggestions. Thanks. I actually quite like the Cardinals you mentioned. Although are are they as trendy as the various strains of bees? I think they look like some f the sea water shrimp. 

However I get the impression that I will have to go RO. Due to the mega hard water on the south coast of England. 

More stuff to add to the shopping list. 

How does the dennerle tank fair against a Do!Aqua or TMC, or even ADA. Not that I am in the market for the latter?
R


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## bogwood

Some good advice given.

I only keep CRS in tanks specifically meeting there needs as i enjoy breeding them.

Over the years, i have tried various ways of keeping them.
But this system works successfully for me.
And I'm terrified of changing anything.

Basically.
A very MATURE, STABLE, tank/filter.
RO re mineralised to a TDS of 130.
Temp 71
ADA Amazonia.
No carbon.
Wood/mosses/floating plants.
Leaves/cones/ bark.
Monsura additives.
And feeding ever few days, as there is plenty of bio film in the tank.

My 50ltr tank has a Eheim 2224 external with a spray bar positioned above the surface, and a eheim pre filter.
It contains 12 adult CRS, S-sss grades and runs with around 100plus shrimplets at the moment, of varying sizes.

Cheers.


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## Lindy

My  shrimp are breeding in a 54l and 27l (crs)


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## nduli

Rolymo, you could pick up the aquanano 40 thats in the sales section. Great for shrimp.....


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## RolyMo

That's for the pointer nduli. Was too late.

To set the scene even more. Below is the piece of furniture I was proposing to put the tank on.

The room is part of a kitchen diner, with a patio door to the right. It is NW facing and so does not get direct sunlight.

The piece of furniture is a storage thing with slide out plastic buckets which hold the kids toys. 

Clearly I would clear the stuff that is on the top.

The dimensions as you can see are limiting in tank volume. But this is really going to be the only place to put this in. Looks like a 20-30l tank then.





Thoughts?
R


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## Andy Thurston

What about this

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/complete-clear-out-various-items-for-sale.28756/


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## RolyMo

Thanks Big Clown. I have been watching that one. His prices keep fluctuating, and I think the tank is a tad too small, but great offer. 

Quick question. Can I quick start the tank cycling process by taking a bit of my existing filter sponge from my normal fish tank (non RO) and add to the new tank which would be RO?


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## Andy Thurston

Yes  i wouldnt bother with the existing tank water the bacterior in the media will contain plenty to get it going. As long as the tank is stable and at the right parameters before adding the shrimp. I've started tanks this way a few times and it reduces cycling times conciderably


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## RolyMo

Cool. Cheers.


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## RolyMo

Made the call and got a second hand Do!Aqua tank with fluvel light, dennerle nana filter an Fluval heater (which incidentally seems to have no way of controlling the temp), co2 reg and tubing (no solenoid) all for £49. 



It appears to fit nicely on the cabinet. 

Now I need to decide on substrate. Seems a toss up between the ADA or the EBI gold. 
Work out if I need to change the heater for one with controls. 

I will have to leave this until I come back from hols. 

But still confused about CO2. I though plant required CO2 with the light. If I cannot inject or use LC how are they going to survive and also how am I fighting algae?


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## Spartacus

Nice haul you got there 

I have used the EBI Gold substrate for when I attempted CRS. Quite a ncie substrate I am ripping it out and replacing it with Dennerle Sulawesi black gravel I have coming from Amazon.de (9 Euro Postage)

I also ordered some of the filters pads for you corner filter 12 Euro for three. It seems quite expensive but I am doing a rebuild and want to keep things as simple as possible 

All the best with your tank Roly - Hope you enjoy the hols!

Murray


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## Andy Thurston

Nice little setup

Reduce co2 demand. Liquid carbon only starts been a problem when you start dosing 2/3x dose on bottle
Use low light plants in the tank and reduce light intensity with floating plants
Algae is caused by too much light and not enough co2. As you dont want to add carbon you need to reduce light.


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## RolyMo

Thanks Murray.
Its all a whirl to try and ensure I don't kill the CRS's on the first go. 

Just figured out the Fluvel nano heater is not adjustable so will need to find out what temp that hits.

Was hoping to start off with perhaps 5 CRS grade S or maybe grade SS as a beginner, is that fair?

Thanks for the support guys. It seems a bit more of a challenge than the fish and don't want to get it wrong.

Thanks
Roly


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## aliclarke86

I have used that heater and it kept my 20ltr at about 23 to 24 so should do pretty good in a shrimp tank 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4


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## RolyMo

Thanks aliclarke86 I feel assured that I dont have to add that to the kit list.
Cheers
Roly


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## RolyMo

Spartacus said:


> Nice haul you got there
> 
> I have used the EBI Gold substrate for when I attempted CRS. Quite a ncie substrate I am ripping it out and replacing it with Dennerle Sulawesi black gravel I have coming from Amazon.de (9 Euro Postage)
> 
> I also ordered some of the filters pads for you corner filter 12 Euro for three. It seems quite expensive but I am doing a rebuild and want to keep things as simple as possible
> 
> All the best with your tank Roly - Hope you enjoy the hols!
> 
> Murray


 

Murray
It is literally as easy as just creating an account in Amazon.de and ordering. I have a Amazon Prime account on the UK site I am guessing that wont carry across for free delivery.
Cheers
Roly


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## Spartacus

Roly,

You can use all the details from your Amazon.co.uk account - No need to create a new one.

Not sure about the prime shipping working as I don't have prime - if it did work i would get prime lol

Its exactly like using Amazon UK - You can try and use this live translator:

http://www.amazon.de - Translator

It may not work all the way through the process but if you have ordered many items from Amazon you will know the jist of it.

Here is the link to the filter pads = http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B003CQLEDQ/ref=s9_simh_gw_p199_d1_i4?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=144F95Z90338W7RYNQC4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375153&pf_rd_i=301128

There CrustaGran shrimp food is good - Just put in Dennerle in the search box and you can browse the results.

I will monitor this thread if you need any help just give me a shout!

Have fun!

Murray


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## Lindy

If you use lower lighting you should not get algae. I do have a bit of bba but it is on the bit of wood that reaches the top of the tank. You might want to start with a few lower grades while you iron out any problems as it is costly if they die. I hope the tank is high enough for you to sit comfortably beside on a chair as you will find yourself spending any available time looking at your shrimp!


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## RolyMo

Cheers Murray
I will have a go at Amazon.de when I get back from hols. 

Lindy - Lol. Well I had to deal with my other half who came back with the kids who took 30 secs to see the tank and then blabbed to mummy and then I got the "Why, We have no room, why did you not tell me". The change is that it has been positioned higher on the top level of the unit, so higher and with the side effect of being able to see it closer. Yes the lower grades I agree should be a starting point, but the colouring the higher grades is attractive. But I will start cheap and learn.

I plan to get either the ADA or EBI Gold when I get back from hol's. Some Java fern on a wood (why does other wood from the shops take soooooooo long to sink). And some other easy plants that don't need high wattage/litre and are good starter plants to get the tank cycling. Still concerned on the CO2. It took me 9 months of living pain without a solenoid connected reg on a small bottle, before buying a FE setup with Solenoid. Feel I need not necessarily a FE setup but another solenoid based reg would be handy, as I see mixed opinions on LC.

Been reading the Breeders and Keepers mag which is handy because each of the interviews with the breeders shows what substrates and conductivity is in each of their tanks for their specific grade and breed of shrimp.
Roly


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## RolyMo

Trying to find photos of peoples Nano shrimp tanks for inspiration most of them are close ups of the shrimp themselves. But I wanted to see some which are not overly planted so that shrimp and on show rather than hide constantly.


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## Lindy

I have a lot of plants in my tank, 54l'the nook' but because I don't have any fish in the tank the shrimp don't hide at all. I did have lampeyes in with my shrimp for a while and they didn't seem too bother the larger adults but were taken out as I had berried females and the fish would have eaten the shrimplets. Smaller shrimp are naturally cautious but do get braver as they get bigger. Adys Aquanano with crs is a good example of a well planted shrimp tank and you can see his shrimp.


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## sciencefiction

RolyMo said:


> Trying to find photos of peoples Nano shrimp tanks for inspiration most of them are close ups of the shrimp themselves. But I wanted to see some which are not overly planted so that shrimp and on show rather than hide constantly.


 
The shrimp should not hide Roly. They swim around like fish do. Just with more plants you have to look better or zoom the picture so the shrimp are visible. The more shrimp, the more you'll see them. If you've got only a few, then they won't pose for a picture altogether obviously My shrimp tank also has 9 corys in it that I mean to move out but can't catch them without smashing half the shrimp by accident. The shrimp have overpopulated like snails so I just can't miss them 





And that's from the same tank on the surface where I've thrown tons of plant cuttings. It's full of shrimp too but it's way harder to see them.


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## sciencefiction

And this a video of the same tank from a few months ago that I took of my new ottos that time but you can see the shrimp not being bothered at all.


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## RolyMo

Cheers sciencefiction. You are right the shrimp seem to be fine.
By way of update.
I went and bought a big bag and ADA Amazonia thinking the smaller bag would not allow me to do the perspective trick.

I also bought a roll of wool (pond filter wool) which the LFS said is what they used in the nano corner filter (as they did not have the dennearle filter cartridges. I did ask what about all the different colour sponges a la my Juwel, but was assured if was not a problem.

I also bought a small Redmoor bit of rood and some Tropica 1-2 Christmas moss.

I plan to put the substrate in, take a rock with a plant attached from the fish tank and add that. 
Take some cuttings of the Elocharis sp. Mini from the fish tank and plant that into the substrate put the wool in the filter, add the water and switch on.
All when the wife has gone to bed 

Question can I squeeze one of my sponges from the fish tank into this nano tank? Will that transfer some bacteria or do I need to cut a section or shall I just cycle for 6 weeks?
Cheers
R


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## sciencefiction

Best is to use mature media, so cut a section of your cycled filter and plant the tank as heavy as you can from the start. The soil will release some ammonia for the first weeks so you may want to wait some time anyway for the levels to go down before attempting shrimp in it.  The media will help for that to happen faster but since it's better to wait,  it probably doesn't matter.
You can sqeeze a sponge although it won't be as effective as using media.  If you can gather some filter mulm, you can put that beneath the soil to speed up its maturing process.


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## RolyMo

Hi Sciencefiction
Agreed I was not going to release shrimp in until I had switched from tap to RO and then got the TDS levels to the appropriate amount, which I still need to look up. 
So I am in no rush and will do what is required to get the environment to a suitable place for the shrimps.
Cheers for the pointers.
R


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## RolyMo

Is there a hight limit in filling these nano tanks etc?


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## Otto72

Leave a gap of about an inch from the top so the shrimp can't escape or fill not quite to the top but add a glass top. 
If you have no lid you will find that the water evaporates over time and you will need to top up or sort it during your weekly water change.
CRS are not climbers as such but it has been known. Amano shrimp are the worst for that.


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