# Skinny Apistogramma - Parasites?



## Millns84 (20 Dec 2018)

Morning all

I bought a pair of Apistogramma cacatuoides triple red around a month ago. The female is putting weight on very well but I noticed the male isn't and he has a concave belly.

My immediate though was internal parasites so I treated the tank with Waterlife Octozin. The treatment ended last weekend but the male has shown no signs of improvement.

What are your thoughts? Should a wait to see if he puts some weight on or try another treatment? I'm concerned about losing him as he's not particularly active either. I do see him eating but his behaviour is definitely that of a poorly fish!


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## zozo (20 Dec 2018)

It can have several causes, internal parasites is only one of it. It can have other illnes, bad functioning organs causing malaise and bad apetite. It also can be a birth defect causing weaknes and under development. It is often seen in bad quality commercialy bred fish.  The CP Danio is such a fish sp. the demand is very high due to its popularity. Breeders maximize output by inbreeding and try to safe money with minimizing water changes. etc. Resulting in bad quality fish with a number of defects. Actualy i if i see CP Danios in the LFS 80% looks unhealthy having a concave belly.

Even if all goes perfectly by the book there always can be a number of the young fish showing defects a concave belly can be one. I also see this with the badges of Goldfish fry i raised, that for example always a few in it, do not want to grow, stay rather small, have a flat belly move a bit strange and are overall rather weak. I  forgot the English term for it, to screen those defected fish out and euthanize them. That is common practice, but not all commercial breeders take time to do this. Than those defected fish still end up in the lfs and than it is up to us to recognize it and not buy that fish.

Thus if superficial visual inspection is all you have as diagnosis.. I concave belly can mean a number of things you only can guess about. It's definitively an abnormality and probably a fish that wont live to it's full potential.


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## Millns84 (20 Dec 2018)

Thanks for the response.

I did forget to mention that he previously had stringy white faeces which I understand is a common sign of parasites. That has stopped since the treatment with Octozin but I would have expected to see some other kind of improvement by now.


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## zozo (20 Dec 2018)

Millns84 said:


> stringy white faeces which I understand is a common sign of parasites



Yes that could be a parasite symptom, still the question remains wich one(s). And how to treat it.

Since it is a Cichlid you might want to read this
https://discus.co/blog/diseases/white-feces/

If it is a parasite infection and the fish is already that far gone and showing a concave belly.. Unfortunately chances are high it also has damaged organs and it will be to late for it anyway. 

If the treatment was effective in killing the parasite, all you can do is feed it properly with healthy food keep a close eye on it and wait, see and hope..


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## dw1305 (20 Dec 2018)

Hi all,





Millns84 said:


> The treatment ended last weekend but the male has shown no signs of improvement.........he previously had stringy white faeces which I understand is a common sign of parasites


It could be _Camallanus, _you only get the obvious worms from the anus right at the end_.
_
My experience of commercially bred Apistogramma from SE Asia is that they all have Flubendazole resistant _Camallanus_ infections

<"Levamisole HCL is the best treatment">, I've used <"Harka Verm">, a treatment for caged birds successfully. 

I got the dosing etc from <"Loaches on-line">.

cheers Darrel


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