# Super flow!



## George Farmer (29 Oct 2008)

I've just upgraded the filter in my Aqua Essentials 60cm opti-white - again.

It's a Superfish Pro 4 external with max. rated flow of 1550lph.  It just about squeezed in the cabinet alongside my 6-way extension lead and 2Kg FE CO2 system.

Outflow is through an Aquatic Magic glass lily pipe and the circulation characteristics are superb.  All the plants sway gently throughout the water column.  Inlet is a regular JBL plastic thing as I broke my glass one.  I'm considering a 17mm ADA set but at almost Â£200...  I may go a bit crazy at the TGM/ADA day!

I've also fitted the brand new Arcadia OT2 luminaire.

Look out for a PFK blog soon on this tank complete with photos etc.


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## Ed Seeley (29 Oct 2008)

You didn't waste much time changing stuff mate!  Welcome back and I bet it feels good to have your hands in the water again eh?

What's your hourly turnover now then?  x20!!!?


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## George Farmer (29 Oct 2008)

Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> You didn't waste much time changing stuff mate!  Welcome back and I bet it feels good to have your hands in the water again eh?
> 
> What's your hourly turnover now then?  x20!!!?



Thanks, Ed.  25x turnover...    10x is old-school. lol

Yes, it's great to be able to mess around with my tanks again.  I've re-scaped it after Emily looked after it (well) for 4 months.  Nothing too off-the-wall for now and I've kept most of the old plants and all the fish.

What I'm also excited about is my new 370 litre tank (120x50x70cm tall) that I'm planning for discus...


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## LondonDragon (29 Oct 2008)

WOW 25X GEORGE IS BACK!! hehe looking forward to see what you find out from this kind of flow.



			
				a1Matt said:
			
		

> I have a 1200lph rated canister filter (Tetratec ex1200), if I add a 2000lph inline pump (Eheim compact +), what does my rated flow rate become?



You might only have the 2000lph as the impeler in the filter won't be able to compete with the pump, might be worth removing it all together in the filter! but then I again I have no experience in doing this


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## a1Matt (29 Oct 2008)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> I have a 1200lph rated canister filter (Tetratec ex1200), if I add a 2000lph inline pump (Eheim compact +), what does my rated flow rate become?





			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> You might only have the 2000lph as the impeler in the filter won't be able to compete with the pump, might be worth removing it all together in the filter! but then I again I have no experience in doing this



My train of thought was going the same way with regards to competing impellers. I thought I might get 2000 'and a little bit.'   I also wonder if placement makes a difference - if I place the filter before my monster size reactor and the pump after it, it might reduce the 'competition'. 

I hadn't thought of removing the impeller completely though  :!:   This is a nice possibility to ponder... I could then get a 3000lph rated Eheim, and just leave the filter turned off. On my 160l this would give me a rated flow approaching 20x.   Hmmmm.....


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## Steve Smith (29 Oct 2008)

How did you find the filter George?  Not seen one of these before.


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## George Farmer (29 Oct 2008)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> How did you find the filter George?  Not seen one of these before.



Brilliant filter!  Loads of media capacity, excellent self-prime, 1550lph and fairly quiet.  32 watts I think.

It started out in life in Jeremy Gay's 120cm Iwagumi  (Jan '08 PFK).  Then in a couple of my 120cm 'scapes supplemented by a JBL external (1200lph).  Then in Dan Crawford's tank.  Now I have it back again.  We swap gear all the time actually - including whole tank set ups.


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## Mark Evans (29 Oct 2008)

im sure i can beat georges flow. 

1 x rena xp2 and a 2028 on the same size tank  8) ooo, and the crappy little black filter?.....gone

and after 24 hoyrs of the 2 running, its like thers no water just soooo clear.


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## a1Matt (29 Oct 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> 1 x rena xp2 and a 2028 on the same size tank



What does that make your turnover?


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## jay (29 Oct 2008)

Really like the sound of the Supefish external. Was thinking of adding one to my 120cm along with a Fluval 405.

So cheap too!!


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## Luketendo (29 Oct 2008)

You're getting into marine style equipment now George.    (By this I mean the sort of stuff you could use on a reef aquarium.)


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## Mark Evans (29 Oct 2008)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> What does that make your turnover?



2100  l per hour divide by 65 L ? is that right? = 32.3


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## a1Matt (29 Oct 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> a1Matt said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is the right calculation 

Wow!  32x turnover is an impressive figure.  I think it is great people are pushing the flow rates right up on their tanks.  This and dosing large amount of macros are the two big changes that I have noticed since starting to keep fish 20 years ago. (It could just be I am noticing it now, but I suspect not).


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## aaronnorth (30 Oct 2008)

> I think it is great people are pushing the flow rates right up on their tanks.



do you really need need 32x turnove your tank though? I think George with 25x is the max i would go and on the edge of being pointless, IMO 20x is plenty, i only have 10x and my plants are doing great.


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## Dan Crawford (30 Oct 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> > I think it is great people are pushing the flow rates right up on their tanks.
> 
> 
> 
> do you really need need 32x turnove your tank though? I think George with 25x is the max i would go and on the edge of being pointless, IMO 20x is plenty, i only have 10x and my plants are doing great.


Each to their own mate, as you can see, Saintly's plants are doing REAL well!

The superfish filter is really really good although it did "burp" a lot, and it was in my bedroom! Otherwise its spot on.


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## jay (30 Oct 2008)

When I first started reading about 20x+ turnover in tanks I thought it was a bit much, but if you think about it, the more the merrier really. Most fish we kep would benefit greatly from lost of flow (river anyone??) and we all know how good turnover helps combat cyanobacteria.

Also, I think once you bring into account added extras in-line, like heaters and reactors etc.. and heavy plant mass in a tank, then The turnover wouldn't be quite as brutal as thought.

Pump that water I say!


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## GreenNeedle (30 Oct 2008)

A lot of the fish we keep are not from turbulent rivers though.  Many are from almost still waters or stagnant pools in which case the more flow the more they are stressed.  I do find however that most fish I get love to play in the output flow for a while before resting in the quieter areas.

AC


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## jay (30 Oct 2008)

Thats what I mean. There will be a lot of flow, but the plant mass will create more than enough areas for them to settle...
Just like a river bank.


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## Mark Evans (30 Oct 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> o you really need need 32x turnove your tank though? I think George with 25x is the max



 how do you know 25 is the max   

anyway, if you look at my journal you'll see its not permanent. its only until i get my other tank set up then its going back. BUT.... now i can see a MASSIVE difference in water clarity and movement i may just go down this particular route.

BTW my red eye tetras love the flow


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## Mark Evans (30 Oct 2008)

people fish are stream lined. there not BRICKS.

just take a look at th river trent in flood season (most of the year   ) you cant tell me the fish get out and say... sod this im taking lodge in a local hotel till the flow drops. minnows, fry etc....

tanks have low flow areas even with high flow rates.


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## aaronnorth (30 Oct 2008)

> how do you know 25 is the max



i dont, that is what i think the maximum that I would go  (see below quote), as i dont see the point, all i am bothered about is for my plants to grow, which they do well enough with just 10x, 32x is just over the top IMO   

Each to their own though...



> I think George with 25x is the max i would go


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## Mark Evans (30 Oct 2008)

fair enough arron. 25, 30. it dont matter to me neither. its only by chance its on my tank. but i will be upping the rate.

i miss read your post, sorry


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## Fred Dulley (30 Oct 2008)

Nice to hear from you, George.
That's some flow, can't wait to see it all (especailly the new lighting system).
I have a Superfish Pro 1. That one is rated at 600lph, although doesn't look like it.... You don't see many of these filters being used, glad you've opted for one


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## George Farmer (30 Oct 2008)

Thanks, Fred.

Let's not get too concerned with actual turnover rates.  Truth is, most of us lose a significant amount of flow through in-line heaters, CO2 reactors, filter media etc. etc.

I may actually get around to actually measuring my flow rates one day...


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## TDI-line (1 Nov 2008)

How would you measure the flow George, just out of interest?


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## Mark Evans (1 Nov 2008)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> How would you measure the flow George, just out of interest?



bit of a guess, but i would get 1 tank bigger than an other side by side. inlet in one out let in other switch on pump some water for a period of time. measure water in small tank,how much water-how much time to pump that water , do maths....hey presto.


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## aaronnorth (1 Nov 2008)

1) get a 1 litre jug, 
2) time it how long it takes to fill (usually seconds)
3) 3600 (total seconds in 1hr) / seconds taken to fill up
eg. 3600/ 30 = 120l/ph


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## Mark Evans (1 Nov 2008)

i would go larger than a 1 litre jug for more accuracy. give yourself a fighting chance at getting a correct measurement.


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## GreenNeedle (1 Nov 2008)

Deary me.  The americans obsessed with super high light and the UK obsessed with super flow. lol

AC


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## Behold (1 Nov 2008)

Just read throught this. and Use a 10l Bucket with mesurement on it. this will give a long enough test run. also i would do it 2-3 times to get an acurate result. as a couple of seconds difference ould make up to 8-10 lPH Difference. i know its not allow but its inaccurate.


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## a1Matt (1 Nov 2008)

Behold said:
			
		

> Just read throught this. and Use a 10l Bucket with mesurement on it. this will give a long enough test run. also i would do it 2-3 times to get an acurate result. as a couple of seconds difference ould make up to 8-10 lPH Difference. i know its not allow but its inaccurate.




Sounds good to me.  I'd also try and get all the inlet and outlet tubes at the same height that they would be when in service.  That way you are covering for any flow loss due to head height (I think that is the correct phrase).  Might be easier said than done though!


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## Behold (1 Nov 2008)

agree downward water pressure on the upflow would slow the rate alot.


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## TDI-line (1 Nov 2008)

I use one of there flow cups for work, i suppose the principle would be the same.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PLUMBERS-DIY-FLOW ... 240%3A1318


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