# saintly's "The Miracle Mire" scape over



## Mark Evans (27 Sep 2008)

hi folks, me again   (nooooooooo....i hear you cry) well the time has come to start my new journal. i don't have a name yet hence the ???????????

the first step is complete, to buy hard scape materials. ive purchased roughly 80 kg of the blue stone from TGM (thansk guys) its alot, the biggest piece alone weighs 33kg! of course im not going to use all of it but i didnt want to be short when it came to the stone arranging. also i can bash the big stones up a bit to get what i really want.
the cup's for scale









what im hoping to create is a cliff face of some sort.im still scratching my head about how im to gain the height that im looking for without using doses of AS. i know in Asia they use polystyrene to bulk out. also i have the option of using my existing stones to bulk out. allot to think about there. im not using any wood because i feel i need to improve my rock arrangement skills. next scape will be wood. maybe after the henge is over (which maybe soon)

planting wise, i want to use similar layout like what's in the henge. HC, rotala sp green (  to Dave Spencer) and maybe the red variety. mosses. nothing new or innovating because im not good enough yet to innovate.

im going to be using the existing substrate and 2 extra bags of AS (we'll see how the amounts pan out) with a ADA bright sand front with graded pebbles and stones.

that's basicly it for now, i'll update soon.


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## aaronnorth (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

looking forward to it, is that all you got from TGM? (i dont mean the amount of rocks BTW 'cos thats a lot of rock!)


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## Mark Evans (27 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> ooking forward to it, is that all you got from TGM?



2 bags of ASA aaron. if i need anything else i can mail order.


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## Thomas McMillan (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Sounds interesting. How big is the tank?


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## Mark Evans (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Sounds interesting. How big is the tank?



its only 4ft, so im going to have to do some rock bashing. with working on churches and historic buildings i come into contact with stone masons everyday so im going to see if the bigger rocks can be cut by machine. so i get the appearance  from the front but rock is only say 4 inches wide for example.


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## aaronnorth (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

i expected you coming back with a lot more thats all


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## Mark Evans (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i expected you coming back with a lot more thats all


me too. i did buy 1 plant, the 2006 ada contest book(great scapes in there BTW) s AS and rock which ive just bashed. ive got my work cut out arranging these  :?


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## aaronnorth (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



> me too. i did buy 1 plant, the 2006 ada contest book(great scapes in there BTW) s AS and rock which ive just bashed. ive got my work cut out arranging these



i suppose you will seen as you are not innovative    evryone has something in them   



> nothing new or innovating because im not good enough yet to innovate.


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## joyous214 (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

oohhhhh cant wait to see what you do!!! how exciting... (sad i know but little things)


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## LondonDragon (28 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

OH NO RUN! NOT ANOTHER JOURNAL! hehe looking forward to the rescape Mark, keep us posted rock is looking good


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## Mark Evans (29 Sep 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> OH NO RUN! NOT ANOTHER JOURNAL!


 i knew it was too much for some of you to take


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## Mark Evans (5 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

you'll all be glad to hear this is on hold. until i get rid of my rena. ive put an order in for a new 120 x 45 x 45.


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## Mark Evans (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

1 x 120 x 45 x 45 opti white 10mm glass aquarium ordered. 

should be getting this thing up and running in a month or 2


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## aaronnorth (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> 1 x 120 x 45 x 45 opti white 10mm glass aquarium ordered.
> 
> should be getting this thing up and running in a month or 2



awesome


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## LondonDragon (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

There goes the bank balance hehe looking forward to this


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## R1ch13 (14 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Ohh thats big bucks   

Will be worth it though!

Cant wait to see 

Richie


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## Mark Evans (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

heres a couple of bits of wood ive managed to get my hands on. ive got 2 others to come similar in shape. i'll also get some smaller pieces. for these 2 bits it was a little over Â£20 which seemed quite cheap.













im having  much fun just getting all the bits and bobs together. so as you have probably guessed im going to attempt another scape with wood....along the lines of a amano nature style tank.but knowing me i'll probably;y change my mind. you see I'd already decided on a iwagumi style tank and even spent over a ton Â£Â£Â£Â£ on stone but in good old saintly fashion ive changed my mind. i've got such a hard scape selection in my back garden   

from the appearance this wood looks allot like the ada stuff. it all looks the same once covered in moss


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## Stu Worrall (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

thats the best bit of setting upa  tank, getting all the bits together then messing around with setups   they look like nice peices and at a good price too.  are you goign wood only or with a bit of rock too?


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## Joecoral (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Â£20 for those huge bits?! That's a damn good bargain!


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## Mark Evans (18 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Joecoral said:
			
		

> Â£20 for those huge bits?! That's a damn good bargain!



Â£13 for the big bit and 8 for the smaller. ive laid claim to 2 other nice bits. and some smaller bits too. 



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> are you goign wood only or with a bit of rock too?



have been thinking about  that, im not really sure which way to go with the hard scape layout.....still thinking


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## TDI-line (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Look forward to this one. 8)


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## jay (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

That wood is cool. I got some similar bits like that from a MA near me, alot of them are going the branchy ADA type wood.
So cheap too!


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## GreenNeedle (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

You got an awesome deal on that wood.  Top tip.  Buy the whole shop's supply and get the rest on ebay. lol  Will pay for the whole of your next setup.  The 2 pieces you have there at that size would fetch easily Â£20 each on ebay!!!

Is it Mopani???

Looks cool must be a big tank

AC


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## Mark Evans (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Is it Mopani???



i dont have a clue mate.



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> You got an awesome deal on that wood. Top tip. Buy the whole shop's supply and get the rest on ebay. lol Will pay for the whole of your next setup. The 2 pieces you have there at that size would fetch easily Â£20 each on ebay!!!


quite the business man aint you andy  



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Looks cool must be a big tank



120 x 45 x 45.

i've got my circular at the ready. angled they should go in nicely with a bit sticking out the top, in the true amano style.


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## aaronnorth (19 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



> i dont have a clue mate.



i love how you just buy things and dont know what they are   it would do my head in if i had something i didnt know the name


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## Mark Evans (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i love how you just buy things and dont know what they are



i gota start learning names, it always happens with plants.stems especially. i chuck the ticket and then forget the names.

anyway, here's some more wood. both bits for 24 quid. and they soaked it for me   still got to buy some smaller pieces 





here's all 4 bits i think i'll have some of it sticking out the top.love it when it does that. amano makes it work so well.







and heres a good reason why i need to strip the old tank down.....ive just left it alone.


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## JamesM (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

That's some kick ass wood, Mark  Really looking forward to this one!


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## Stu Worrall (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

and they even soaked it for you! lol


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## Mark Evans (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> and they even soaked it for you! lol



yep   saves me a job.the guys down at MA eastbridgford seem to be coming around to the planted tank way of thinking, with a nudge from moi.  they still have a couple of poorly planted tanks in store, but slowly does it i reckon.
and with quality wood this cheap i might clear them out of there stock.



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> That's some kick ass wood, Mark  Really looking forward to this one!



awesome isn't it James


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## Ark (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

now im anticipating great things from this Mark, dont less us down..

ps. i recieved the valis nana today thanks very much


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## Mark Evans (25 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Ark said:
			
		

> now im anticipating great things from this Mark, dont less us down..



no pressure then....  



			
				Ark said:
			
		

> ps. i recieved the valis nana today thanks very much


discard the old lengthy leafs   you may loose some of it but once established it'l spread like fire


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## Mark Evans (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well, ive been trying to salvage as many usable plants as pos and as you can see the new scape has turned from scape to nursery  :? i didnt realise how much moss on wood i'd actually got.




did someone say about putting some moss in the foreground?.....  





the moss i had from LD has trebled. (steve and matt, still need yours   ) ive tryed to save the stems too.

i making lists of plants i need to order and i have to say its gona cost a fortune.


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## jay (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

With all that moss for your new 'branchy' moss, your new 'scape is going to look almost done within the first week  
Love moss, can't beat it.


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## Steve Smith (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Fissidens on it's way mate.  Hope it recovers OK for you.  It's looking a bit dark in colour.  Fingers crossed


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## Mark Evans (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Fissidens on it's way mate.



brill thanks steve.


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## Mark Evans (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

and so another one bites the dust

a MASSIVE learning curve this tank was. its coming your way soon sari


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## Ark (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

that is a hell of a lot of vallis nana

how much did you start of with?

thats a lucky neon all by himself in a 120cm tank


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## Mark Evans (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Ark said:
			
		

> how much did you start of with?



if i remember right, i think 6 tropica pots and 4 or 4 c helferi. its certainly took ove the back of the tank. it really is thick. and when i pulled everything else out up turned stones etc, it was everywhere.


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## Mark Evans (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

here's a  preliminary shot of what i plan.

i know there will be many variations on this, but you get the idea of the plan. height wise the tops should just stick out the water (which i want.) ive got depth from front to back, after studying amanos work with wood. and it easily fits in the 120cm length.





when the tank arrives i'll post some more accurate pics.

lets hope i dont get ill again after the amount of posts ive put up today


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## JamesM (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> here's a  preliminary shot of what i plan.
> 
> i know there will be many variations on this, but you get the idea of the plan. height wise the tops should just stick out the water (which i want.) ive got depth from front to back, after studying amanos work with wood. and it easily fits in the 120cm length.
> 
> ...


Shhhhh-wing!


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## sari (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

The new tank is going to look awesome! I'm looking forward to getting the old tank, it's going to be a fab project but very very very very costly...   Custom made cabinet, luminaire, hardscape, plants, ferts...I need a lotto rollover times five...


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## Steve Smith (27 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

You sir have fine wood!  

Brilliant wood composition matey!


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## Mark Evans (28 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Brilliant wood composition matey!



thanks steve. realy looking forward to doing this tank.



			
				sari said:
			
		

> he new tank is going to look awesome! I'm looking forward to getting the old tank, it's going to be a fab project but very very very very costly...  Custom made cabinet, luminaire, hardscape, plants, ferts...I need a lotto rollover times five...



thanks sari, wont be long now   

well folks, heres what nana and c helferi came out, and it all claimed for allready  8) 

batch 1....





batch 2




all together.


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## Steve Smith (28 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Holy cr*p mate!  How big is the tank it all came out of again??


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## Mark Evans (28 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Holy cr*p mate! How big is the tank it all came out of again??



120 x 40 x 70 h

steve, check your pm inbox


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## Steve Smith (28 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Have done mate   I replied, maybe it's not come through yet?


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## aaronnorth (29 Oct 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

impressive stuff  8)


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well im waiting on the arriavl of my tank...and for sure im getting excited. the new comer that's know as LuÃ­s Moniz has just made me even more eager to get going, thanks luis   it probably looks like im copying, but i did have this in my head for a while, if you look at earlier posts...promise.

anyway ive got rained off today and thought i'd have ago at arranging my wood. ive put it on the stand that will be used so i can get some kind of perspective.





the whole thing fits in the dimensions of the tank lovely with a bit sticking out the top. im still undecided whether to have sand foreground or plant. clean cut or wild 

no doubt there will be a few minor alterations, but i reckon its almost there.


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## Tom (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looks really good!Who needs glass anyway?    As for the foreground I would have a bit of Glosso surrounding the "island", but bare sand right at the edges. Just a personal preference! 

Are the pieces fairly level with each other (front-back)? Again just personal preference but I would try having some wood coming closer to the front and back of the tank to give it a bit more depth rather than a flat line of branches. Sorry if it's already like that, I can't tell from the picture  This is going to be really nice though 

Tom


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Tom said:
			
		

> !Who needs glass anyway?



its overated   

its hard to tell from the image but they are pointing in different directions. the depth issue is something ive taken into serious consideration. it could make or break it.

heres another....





the second from left goes backwards, far right comes forward to the glass.... once the glass is there,  8) middle straight up.


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## oldwhitewood (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Very impressive.


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## Steve Smith (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Very nice mate   How about a side shot?


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

thanks old white wood. now that means allot   

heres a couple more. ive overexposed these so you can see the wood arrangement better. ive added smaller pieces too. i quite like this one, as it will fill the tank.









i need some more smaller pieces od landscape rock, and arrange the stone better, but you get the drift...


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## Steve Smith (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Something is telling me you want some thinner branches somewhere, but I don't know.  It does look fantastic   Got a list of plants you want to use yet Mark?


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## Thomas McMillan (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I hate to say it, but I preferred the first layout you did a couple of pages ago. I think the middle branch is just too upright compared to the others.

Also I think you should have a sand foreground and maybe ditch the rocks.

Should be good! I'm looking forward to it.


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## jay (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Very striking mate. Maybe move the island off centre a little?
You definitely got something going here.

Those wood pieces are screaming out for some bolbitis!!


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## JamesM (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looking good Mark... Like Thomas though, I do like the arrangement a couple of pages back... choices, choices :?


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Looking good Mark... Like Thomas though, I do like the arrangement a couple of pages back... choices, choices :?



i'll try it, im starting too look at it too hard now. im trying to envisage it fully planted.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Very striking mate. Maybe move the island off centre a little?



for sure it wont be where it is now   hopefully behind some glass.  



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I hate to say it, but I preferred the first layout you did a couple of pages ago. I think the middle branch is just too upright compared to the others.
> 
> Also I think you should have a sand foreground and maybe ditch the rocks.



the rocks are for stability only. when its grown in you wont see them. fingers crossed.



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Got a list of plants you want to use yet Mark?



not sure yet steve, still thinking.....easy ones! lots of moss


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## Garuf (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

What I think you should do is give the whole job lot to me. 

Very nice mate, it's just not quiet there though, I just can't see where to help though.


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## Thomas McMillan (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I think it just looks too symetrical maybe.


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

a couple more... a little less "symmetrical" i think. imagind whit sand going underneath the fallen branches. ignore the stones










thanks for the interest everyone


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## Tom (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I prefer how you had it before


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## howardish (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Thats really good wood (anyone else think that sounds a bit odd?)

what type is it? and where did you get it from?

I loving the shape you made, looks great

i know its probably on a previous page but whats the planting plan?

Howard


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## aaronnorth (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

something still isnt right, i prefer the 1st layout, with more upright branches


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## Thomas McMillan (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I agree that something still isn't right... It still looks quite symmetrical, even thought it is less so than the previous arrangement. Whereas the others were quite tall, these ones seem quite low and outward, with not much in teh middle. On the second one it doesn't look right witht he centre piece of wood like that... Try something that is anything but symmetrical and see what happens? Or arrange the wood how you had it on page 4 and fiddle with it a bit? I dunno...


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

it appears everyone's taste is different. what's right for some is wrong for others. there's not going to be a layout that suits everyone. 

i reckon planting will change everything.i'll report back once ive got the tank.

possible plants.

e tenneluss mid ground and sides 
v nana background 

moss
anubias  nana
ferns
bolbitis
rotala sp green


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				howardish said:
			
		

> Thats really good wood (anyone else think that sounds a bit odd?)
> 
> what type is it? and where did you get it from?
> 
> ...



only stange if you star in films  8) 

the wood is...dont know!  i do know its from MA @ east bridgeford. i got all the pointy bits. im going back to see if theres any more bits to add to this scape.


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## Steve Smith (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I quite like the last layout.  End of the day though mate, you've got to look at it day in, day out.  So go with what you like the look of  

You've done 3 good arrangements so far, so I honestly think it'll look great when you get it sorted


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## Mark Evans (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> I quite like the last layout. End of the day though mate, you've got to look at it day in, day out. So go with what you like the look of
> 
> You've done 3 good arrangements so far, so I honestly think it'll look great when you get it sorted



thanks matey, i to like the last one. its only the first day of arrangement. plenty more to come.

i think im not going to use any stem plants. im in for the long haul


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## Steve Smith (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

It's all about the Bolbitis mate   I'm really glad I bought some from TGM.  It looks fantastic.  Bit pricey from anywhere you look for it, but I think it's worth it!


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## George Farmer (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Both look good.

Think about what plants you're intending and how they'll mature to influence the whole composition.  Symmetry isn't an issue here, Thomas.

Taller, narrower plants would go better with no.2, broader leaved with no.1. - so by your plants, I'd go no.2.

Looks like another NA-influenced classic in the making.


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## Fred Dulley (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Are you looking at this tank being long term, Mark?
I'm sure you will put all the skills you have learnt so far into this tank. We eagerly await the masterpiece.


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## Goodygumdrops (10 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Either the 1st one or the last one,definitely not the middle one.The 1st and last one have stronger shapes with the wood which imo,won't be lost during planting (softened but still important to be strong).
The middle one is too empty in the middle.
Look forward to this one.


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## Mark Evans (11 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Think about what plants you're intending and how they'll mature to influence the whole composition. Symmetry isn't an issue here, Thomas.
> 
> Taller, narrower plants would go better with no.2, broader leaved with no.1. - so by your plants, I'd go no.2.
> 
> Looks like another NA-influenced classic in the making.



thanks george, plant choice is key.



			
				Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Are you looking at this tank being long term, Mark?
> I'm sure you will put all the skills you have learnt so far into this tank. We eagerly await the masterpiece.



difinatley long term fred. i initially was going to use stems, but they'll just row way to fast. so ive ditched that idea.

masterpiece?   ...we'll see, just dont laugh if i trip and hurt myself though.



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> Either the 1st one or the last one,definitely not the middle one.The 1st and last one have stronger shapes with the wood which imo,won't be lost during planting (softened but still important to be strong).
> The middle one is too empty in the middle.
> Look forward to this one.



at the minute the last for me, still early days yet though.


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## jay (11 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Don't think stems are going to be very fitting for the style you are going for.
We've all seen how well you can grow them in The Henge so I think you'd be swamped by them on any sort of large scale.
Reckon you would have rotala coming out your.... ears


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## Themuleous (11 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

2nd layout gets my vote.  The 1st one is too symmetrical.

Sam


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## Mark Evans (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

fetching tank tomorrow  8) oooohhhh baaaaby


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## Steve Smith (14 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I bet the excitement is mounting


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## Mark Evans (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well, the time has come! ive got the tank!   and it's awesome!

i have also purchased 2 bits of sumatra wood. both in the xxl catergory   there huge!





nothings in its final position, nor have i decided which bit im going to use. it might be both yet. im going to live with the hardscape for a few weeks until im happy with a layout.


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## Steve Smith (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

The big chunk on the right almost looks like a stylised flame   might make a cool centre piece.

Awesome looking tank mate!  I bet you're looking forwards to this one!


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## JamesM (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Ooooh, kinky 

Your going to put something under that tank, right? 

I like the other wood in previous posts better tbh matey, although that piece on the right is well nice  

Have you considered pink and blue gravel and some nice skulls?


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## Mark Evans (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Your going to put something under that tank, right?



yep. waiting for tank mat   im a bit hesitant to put AS in yet until i get it. 

i like the original idea too, but the misses loves these bits so i'll have to go with her on this one.



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Have you considered pink and blue gravel and some nice skulls?



on order   



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Awesome looking tank mate! I bet you're looking forwards to this one!



cant wait mate.

BTW i met dan and graeme today, both beezer geezers


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## JamesM (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Is Dan hung over? I spoke with him about 3am and I think he was a tad pished


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## Mark Evans (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

he seemed fine. but then i dont know him well enough to know the difference. 

james keep your eye out for mr tortoise


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## Steve Smith (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> james keep your eye out for mr tortoise



Err... ??


----------



## JamesM (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> he seemed fine. but then i dont know him well enough to know the difference.
> 
> james keep your eye out for mr tortoise


w00000t!


----------



## Ray (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

This is going to be fun.  I know that in the next weeks you will try every conceivable arrangement possible, updated to this journal in real time   - but can you try swapping the two woods over and then slide them together in an island arrangement?

Are you also going to use your 100kg of landscape rock in this one?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Nice! I bet you're well excited. 

I think the other bits of wood are so much better than these...


----------



## Mark Evans (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I think the other bits of wood are so much better than these...



unfortunately , if after spending Â£80 on these bits of wood, i used the other bits, my wife, would surely rip my head off. from what i can work out i have a potential 3 or 4 totally different scapes. im considering the flamey piece on its own with an open area.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Are you also going to use your 100kg of landscape rock in this one?



again after spending a small fortune on this, i reckon i'll chuck one or two in there just for good measure and to keep wifey happy.


----------



## aaronnorth (15 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

awesome, the wood should look good with some microsorum and mosses on it


----------



## jay (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> im considering the flamey piece on its own with an open area.



Please do fella.
When I look at it, It reminds me of the front cover to the film Pan's Labyrinth?
Very fairy tales fantasy look to it.
It's big too!! Get a good island effect out of that. Very good buy... Clever wife


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> When I look at it, It reminds me of the front cover to the film Pan's Labyrinth?
> Very fairy tales fantasy look to it.



you must be reading my mind. ive just check out the pans labyrinth and yes i see a similarity. ive also been thing about a fairytale feel to this peace of wood. 

anyway. ive joined the 2 pieces together to get the mother of all pieces.....






theres going to be sand in this setup too. not yet decided in which way though. 



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> This is going to be fun. I know that in the next weeks you will try every conceivable arrangement possible, updated to this journal in real time



someone knows me too well allready


----------



## Steve Smith (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I'm liking that a lot mate!


----------



## jay (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well you know what they say about great minds and all that 8) 
You got all the AS from the Rena tank for that? 
Guessing there's going to be a good amount, so the wood will be more prominent above the surface.


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> You got all the AS from the Rena tank for that?



oh yes, and some


----------



## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Okay...maybe you should use this wood instead.    I shouldn't doubt you saintly!

It looks great, but my only worry with scapes like this is that the right side (which I assume is where the open sand will go) will be too open compared to the right if you know what I mean? I'm sure you know what you want and what you're doing though. No doubt it'll look great. 

It's probably a bit rearly, but have you got any idea of what type of fish you're gonna have?


----------



## aaronnorth (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

now that is awesome   

cant wait to see the next stage...


----------



## Garuf (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I really like the wood, not sure if aesthetically it's as strong as the iron wood, but still very nice. 
I think you will have to run a gauntlet where you will have to be careful not to create a schizophrenic scape, the balance between the sand and the plants really will have to be perfect.
Also, go get your hands on some sweet jars to make dividers, you'll save your self a whole lot of work.


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

ok, before you all say, "there's flat bits on the wood" or "the sand isn't straight"  8)  im going to address these issues in the future. after speaking with dan yesterday, the fella told me how to fix the flat bits.... "you hit with a chisel, get a saw at it, really give it a good bashing, it comes up lovely" or words to that effect    my kinda guy

anyway, ive decided on the layout. and the sand placement. im going understated with the sand. i nearly created skegness  beach but decided against it. i want plants in there.

plant wise? top of the list...e tennelus. i love this plant from my henge days and now i know how it grows i can use in a better manner. moss, obviously. bolbitis. microodoo da, what ever the name is.....microsorum!!

few others too. full list soon.













the whole thing is just left of middle. After reading something in nature aquarium world book 1.

Thomas, your right mate   

tank contents.

ADA powersand. (what i had left over from the henge and previous scape) its new stuff too.
ADA malaya and amazonia...new and old 
ADA bacter 100
ADAiron tabs
dressing sand (non ADA)

im waiting for my new stands for my arcadia (which broke when i stripped the rena down   ) so  i'll have some better lighting soon.


----------



## Superman (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I love the Thomas the Tank Engine influence - really toxic. lol


----------



## JamesM (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

The wood is certainly different mate.. I think you need more stones in there at the base though...


----------



## Thomas McMillan (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looking good, I think it's safer to have the layout like that - with the sand at the front etc etc

P.S. what's all this 'toxic' talk on the forums nowadays?


----------



## Superman (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> P.S. what's all this 'toxic' talk on the forums nowadays?


It's one of John "The Shark" Starkey's sayings lol


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> P.S. what's all this 'toxic' talk on the forums nowadays?



no idea mate.   



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> The wood is certainly different mate.. I think you need more stones in there at the base though...



im hoping they will be out of site soon james once grow in.



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I think you will have to run a gauntlet where you will have to be careful not to create a schizophrenic scape,



schizophrenic? garuf, whats that mean? 



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> now that is awesome



and fianly...thanks aaron, im glad you like it.


----------



## Garuf (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I'm with who ever it is who said more rocks, any chance of packing some under the wood to make it stick out the tank more on the left hand side?
I spoke too late on adding permanent dividers didn't I.


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I spoke too late on adding permanent dividers didn't I.
> I'm with who ever it is who said more rocks, any chance of packing some under the wood to make it stick out the tank more on the left hand side?
> I spoke too late on adding permanent dividers didn't I.



im getting some thin perspex to split the 2. i dont have much room for the wood coming out of the top due to the luminaire. once thats on then i'll see how much i can raise the whole thing


----------



## Garuf (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I've found that when I've done sumatra scapes with sand that the tank becomes almost as though it has 2 characters, or opposing itself. Especially if you find that you have too many or too large a plant in on the wood. It's all about transitions I found.


----------



## planter (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Hi Saintly, Youve been busy while ive been away! Love the wood, very origional. Nice layout too! What sand did you use in the front?


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				planter said:
			
		

> Hi Saintly, Youve been busy while ive been away! Love the wood, very origional. Nice layout too! What sand did you use in the front?



thanks planter. im thinking theres a few that think it might be a bit obscene  :? when you see it for real it just hits you. the shear size, the twist turns of the branches....

anyway, the sand is....the one on the left. MA real cheap and looks amazing.


----------



## Steve Smith (17 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Hey Mark, the sand on the left, what's it called?  I've seen some UNIPAC sand that I really liked, but couldn't decide if it was "safe" or not (sorta looked a bit marine orientated).  Would be interested to know what this one's called as it does look good!


----------



## Stu Worrall (17 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

looking real nice   the sand at the frton is going to give it a nice contrast to the rocks and wood but your gonna have to treat it mean to get the ends of the wood rough. give her a good bashing! Do you know anyone who does bonsai because a good pair of jin pliers and side cutters would make light work of them


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Hey Mark, the sand on the left, what's it called? I've seen some UNIPAC sand that I really liked, but couldn't decide if it was "safe" or not



apparently its safe. i hope it is. its a wonderful looking sand. maybe a tad on the fine side. ive got my divider/ barrier sorted out. its a peice of thin plastic, that should stop the 2 mixing. time will tell steve wether the sand is good or not. the name? no idea...it didnt have one. MA stock it.



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> looking real nice  the sand at the frton is going to give it a nice contrast to the rocks and wood but your gonna have to treat it mean to get the ends of the wood rough. give her a good bashing!



it might get the moss treament too. the sand is just a clone of what amano does in his nature aquariums and yes, it gives it a nice contrast....well at least in amanos tanks


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

ok peeps, opinions please. now wood placement on the ADA stlye idea is NOT final. what im looking for is which one people here like the most. the idea i suppose, not the actual wood placement. 8) 

so either the sumatra driftwood(tangled looking wood) ferns, e tennelus, lots of moss crypts etc. long haul scape

or

ADA style (long branchy bits) moss, e tenneluss, stem plants. i look at this as a quick scape really.4/5 months maybe? then total rip down.









anyone wondering, there is a barrier in the forground which, when ive decided on scape, will be covered.  





thanks in advance.


----------



## Goodygumdrops (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I'm glad you got the other wood.It looks quite scary,almost as if you'd expect a pike or an eel to be lurking.


----------



## JamesM (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

>


Awesome!


----------



## chump54 (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

2nd one, spiky wood.

looks like it is bigger, all round, than the tank. lovely

could, possibly be a bit more upright?

cheers

C


----------



## Steve Smith (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I like both of them   My preference would be number 2 though 

I've said it before, I'll say it again... You sir have nice wood!


----------



## George Farmer (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

No.2 is the stereotypical, safe, ADA-style choice.  It's very nice, of course.

No.1 is interesting and I think has the potential to form the basis of a more innovative design...

What do you want, Mark?  ADA or Mark?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I still think the second one is way better, but like someone else said, it could be more upright? Looks a bit too 'outward'.

Why does the second one have to be a shot scape? Couldn't you still do a long-term with that hardscape?


----------



## Ray (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

The tank looks great, really nice with the opti white and arcadia.  You going to run a 2028 on each end?  I think you need to use stems, or you (and the rest of us) will get bored waiting - crypts do a leaf a week tops!

1 - I don't like the LHS, too tangled, convoluted bloated and turgid & I am not sure what you can make of it that won't look cluttered and choked.  RHS has potential.

2 - Too straight, too ordinary, without that Saintly touch of flare or even genius that the rockwork in Henge had.

Sorry, but I think you need to keep looking...  :?


----------



## a1Matt (18 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> No.2 is the stereotypical, safe, ADA-style choice.  It's very nice, of course.
> 
> No.1 is interesting and I think has the potential to form the basis of a more innovative design...
> 
> What do you want, Mark?  ADA or Mark?



My thoughts exactly. Couldn't say it any better.

I really hope you go with the wood from number 1.


----------



## Dan Crawford (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

George has hit the nail on the head, No.2 is very well done, very well done indeed but it lacks personality IMO. No.1 might me more difficult to get right but when you pull it off it'll make for a much more original scape.


----------



## sari (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

In my untrained scape eyes I like the first better, it is very personal and different. That kind of scape would be much more unforgettable than the second one.


----------



## deMastro (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

You have soma awesome wood!!!

I would do the No.2 first, wait until it is at its best and then rip it off.

Then i would do the No.1, but its very difficult...

Keep the good work.

Cheers,
deMastro


----------



## aaronnorth (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

2 looks very good however IMO it looks flat.

So i would go with #1, rather than copying ADA style/ far east try something new, you have already done 2 iwagumi's.

Jungle style along with that wood will be a real winner


----------



## jay (19 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Obviously no. 2 will end up looking great with a little bit of growing and some sense from the grower.
Like George said, it's ADA by the numbers kind of 'scape. Lovely, but a bit.... meh  

Personally, as I said before, the sumatra wood you have, has the potential to be something very fantastical and really unique, and with your growing talent, I don't believe you'll get much joy from working on a tank that no.2 would more than likely end up becoming.


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well guys im astounded by the response. thanks everyone. its quite amazing how everyone views the 2 ideas. i think i know which one i'll go for now....sorry   ....you want to know? :?:     you'll have to wait and see.

seriously, thanks to everyone for there input. hats off to everyone. im still quite some distance from planting yet, hopefully before crimbo.

laters


----------



## planter (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Out of the 2 its No.1 for me  ..... as has been said more intersting and unique, However I cant help thinking both arrangements are shrinking your tank (esp No.1) when I first looked at this thread I thought you were rescaping you 60 cm opti white (henge) until I saw the cabinet!


----------



## JamesM (20 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

There is something about no. 1 I really don't like. Reminds me of a dead and mangled elephant


----------



## a1Matt (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> There is something about no. 1 I really don't like. Reminds me of a dead and mangled elephant



So that is the name sorted then, saintly's ??????? scape becomes saintly's dead and mangled elephant scape


----------



## Goodygumdrops (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

The Elephant Graveyard.


----------



## LondonDragon (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Which ever option you pick Mark its going to look great, I do prefer option 2, but have seen a lot of scapes created that way lately. But is you want to enter some competitions the second option will be safer


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

good god, where do i start with all these replies?....

firstly, im pleased with the fact that people like both scape ideas. and that it's 50-50 in the popularity stakes. at least i know i have a scape in the wings 

i've now discovered that you cant please everyone. not that, that was my intention.beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. i fully appreciate the constructive criticism's and take nearly all of them on-board   

yesterday i was confident i which scape i was going to use...today? im not so sure.  :?  i dont have enough experience with the plants that i want to use, so the whole thing could end up impressive or absolutely  atrocious. sit back and wait for the ride guys  8)


----------



## Goodygumdrops (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Yay!!You need a new thread for the new tank though.Surprise us!!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Someone said this before and I can't be bothered to look, but with the first one the tank does definately look smaller than it acttually is. The first one is unique, which is good but I'm not sure how that tangled wood would look with plants attached and I'm not sure the placement is right.

The second one is good, but it's a bit too generic, central, symetrical and a bit flat for me. 

I'm sure you'll choose the right one and it'll look great when planted up though


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

ok, heres what i did!....literaly fliped a coin. heads- ADA.... tails- me!.... i lost!    me next scape then.

heres work in progress. the wood can come out at any time so im not all that bothered about disturbing the foreground. you might just see the barrier? as you can see its like my small opti white. but on a big scale. 

this will be a relatively quick scape, e tennelus stems riccia (  ) moss. ADA style. run of the mill, symetrical good old ADA   

do you realy think im going to leave that left side at 15 degrees?...of course not its going  to go up 1 degree   would NOT in final position 









still to grade the forground some yet  8) work in progress


----------



## planter (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Love what your doing with the mixed foreground substrate. Very natural looking


----------



## chump54 (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				planter said:
			
		

> Love what your doing with the mixed foreground substrate. Very natural looking



me too 

C


----------



## Thomas McMillan (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Yes! I won! 

That wood placement is awesome, I knew you had it in you! I love the graded foreground style that you've come up with too. 

I just wish you would keep this scape for longer than just 'short-term'


----------



## Goodygumdrops (21 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Bums.You got some fancy gravel stuff going on there.


----------



## JamesM (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				planter said:
			
		

> Love what your doing with the mixed foreground substrate. Very natural looking


Amen 

Looks great, Mark!


----------



## aaronnorth (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

nice, does the wood have enough height in it though? hard to tell with the pic


----------



## jay (22 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Thought you might go ADA  
Reckon everyone has got to try it at some point, it's probably the reason why a lot of us started in this hobby.

Glad you are doing the "Dave Chow" thang with the sand/rock grading. Much more natural.
Could almost say you're going for the CAU look rather than ADA  

Can't wait.


----------



## Calum (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

looks very interesting, cant wait to see the finished product!


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

a couple more...almost there. thanks for the comments guys. plants on order pretty soon.










next job, to cut the waist off the wood.


----------



## Steve Smith (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I love the bow you've got with the substrate/foreground mate


----------



## George Farmer (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Very nice, Mark.

Let us know how you get on keeping the white sand clean.  

I swapped the silver sand for Unipac Zambezi gravel in my 370 litre because I have OCD and wouldn't be able to keep my hands out of the water keeping the sand spotless.


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> I love the bow you've got with the substrate/foreground mate



cheers steve. im hoping it will add to the sense of depth.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Let us know how you get on keeping the white sand clean.
> 
> I swapped the silver sand for Unipac Zambezi gravel in my 370 litre because I have OCD and wouldn't be able to keep my hands out of the water keeping the sand spotless.



i vaguely remember reading you didnt like white sand george. i know its going to be as high maintenance as the plants but im willing to commit to it.i'll let you know in 3 months if i still think the same.

cant wait to get this baby planted. ive struck a deal with my local MA store on the plant order so i can order more. im looking at getting maybe 70/80 pots, should do it.


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

after a 20 minutes messin' im about 95%done with the hard scape. now when i get my wife to look at it she says "its ok," but i know different. you see, i imagine it with plants in. she cant...bless her. 
so i added the anubias to it to give her a clue as to what a bit of green adds. then she sayed  "oooo, thats really nice"
im getting somewhere.   

anyway, its time for me to stop with the foreground now. the extra 5% will come on the next scape   maybe the 5% is the flat end on the wood to the right?...mmmm, moss me thinks. or a pixy chair   

so folks, where you see gaps, imagine a plant there (anubias in and around the rocks base. moss on the wood. riccia balls spring out the gaps. rotala sp green in the background. e tennelus on the sides like a lawn....you get the picture.   i waiting for the symmetry police to arrive, but hopefully when ferns etc are rooted things wont look to symmetrical. i'll probably loose one or two branches





the next pics will be planting. thats it for a while....promise


----------



## Steve Smith (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Hi Mark.  Looking lovely   There are two things that kinda stick out a bit to me though.  

The piece of wood lying on the left looks the wrong way around.  It looks to me like it should be comming from the centre too.

The second is the large rock off centre.  It's quite a broad and a big lump.  It looks like it needs something to break it up a little.

Just my view mate   I'm sure they'll be plenty of other suggestions.


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Hi Mark.  Looking lovely   There are two things that kinda stick out a bit to me though.
> 
> The piece of wood lying on the left looks the wrong way around.  It looks to me like it should be comming from the centre too.
> 
> ...



hearing you steve, im hoping plants will cover most of the rock. they always do. the other bit of wood should barely be visible too. fingers crossed. :?


----------



## George Farmer (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I wouldn't worry about 'perfect' hardscape.  When plants are mature the whole layout goes under massive transformations.  The key is obviously plant choice, layout and pruning technique.

Of course, decent hardscape is very important, but the odd 'imperfection' here or there, in the right hands, will do nothing to hinder the aquascape.  In fact, what one may see as a glitch, may turn into an effective innovation.

I've seen quite 'ordinary' looking hardscape compositions turn into real beauties.  Jason Baliban's for one...

http://www.projectaquarium.com/plantedA ... iting.aspx

I'm not wishing to come across as defending Mark here.  It's great that so many members are taking an active interest.  But as one of the forums' talents, I find it interesting that Mark receives more critiques than most.


----------



## jay (24 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Thinks it's probably that a lot of people know just how talented Mark can be, so when they see what they believe to be a less than steller idea, they like to point it out as not up to what is now expected of him?


----------



## Ray (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Saintly, its perfect.  You have my permission to order the plants   George is right, nobody is going to notice that flat piece of wood once you add the pixie chair and anyway, I know you won't be able to resist fixing it while you wait for the plant order.

70 pots sounds an awful lot - I only used 20 in mine and its bursting now the crypts are filling out.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Thinks it's probably that a lot of people know just how talented Mark can be, so when they see what they believe to be a less than steller idea, they like to point it out as not up to what is now expected of him?



This is true - sometimes I am quite harsh with Mark (although I draw the line at dead elephant analogies  ) but I always PM him afterwards to apologise and he always thanks me for the feedback and an interesting correspondence usually ensues...


----------



## Thomas McMillan (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Yeah I agree about the hardscape. On most tanks I've seen the hardscape just dissapears anyway.

I don't know if it's already been said, but what did you use as a barrier between the foreground and Aqua Soil?


----------



## LondonDragon (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looking awsome Mark, can't wait to see it planted 
Let me know if you need some mosses, my tank its not at its best at the moment but I am sure something can be arranged


----------



## beeky (25 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

It's alot easier to find a fault or comment on something when it's nearly perfect, alot harder to give constructive criticism on something that has lots of issues or is uninspiring...or is perfect.


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well guys, a few developments. firstly thank for all the interest.....good and bad.   



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry about 'perfect' hardscape. When plants are mature the whole layout goes under massive transformations. The key is obviously plant choice, layout and pruning technique.



yep, so this scape can still go tits up!which brings me to plants. ive got my self a good deal and heres what ive got coming at the end of next week.yep that's allot of pots but i really have got a good deal.




i kinda have a picture in my head of how i want it to look. plant choice might be right, might be wrong. the one choice that im still unsure about is the r rotundifolia. i fear it WILL out grow everything else un less i keep it under control. if it does out grow the scape then i call on plan B.... more c helferi or v nana.

ive also got some micrsorum which will go roughly in this position. im losing branches already   anubias to be placed around the skirt of the wood/stones





the branches that are laying on the sand will be moved once ive got the anubias in my hand only then will i know the final positioning.



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looking awsome Mark, can't wait to see it planted
> Let me know if you need some mosses, my tank its not at its best at the moment but I am sure something can be arranged



i'll pm you LD



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I don't know if it's already been said, but what did you use as a barrier between the foreground and Aqua Soil?
> Yeah I agree about the hardscape. On most tanks I've seen the hardscape just dissapears anyway.
> 
> I don't know if it's already been said, but what did you use as a barrier between the foreground and Aqua Soil?



thin white plastic.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Saintly, its perfect. You have my permission to order the plants  George is right, nobody is going to notice that flat piece of wood once you add the pixie chair and anyway, I know you won't be able to resist fixing it while you wait for the plant order.
> 
> 70 pots sounds an awful lot - I only used 20 in mine and its bursting now the crypts are filling out.
> 
> ...



hi mate, yeah i can always rely on ray for words of wisdom.   i think ive got 80+ pots coming, i want it stuffed!



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Thinks it's probably that a lot of people know just how talented Mark can be, so when they see what they believe to be a less than steller idea, they like to point it out as not up to what is now expected of him?


no pressure then?   

anyway, thats it from me for while. planting next weekend


----------



## Thomas McMillan (29 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

That's a mad amount of plants there!

Looking forward to the planting. Even with just that one fern there it's easy to imagine how it's going to turn out and I'm liking it1


----------



## aaronnorth (29 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I think it would look better with just a thin layer of sand rather than having it sloped at each end. The microsorum is perfectly placed IMO, how are you keeping it alive?


----------



## George Farmer (29 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Nice plant list.  

It will look really good right after planting.  

You have a good eye for composition, and with your hardscape, plant selection and quantity, I really don't see how you can go far wrong.  

A lot can and should be learnt from these journals.  Thanks for sharing your experiences with us all.


----------



## Mark Evans (30 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Nice plant list.
> 
> It will look really good right after planting.
> 
> ...



thanks george. still thiunking about 1 or 2 changes regarding the plants. only little changes. currently theres 3 stem varieties. i might swap 1 for m umbrosum for Ro.sp green. and change the postioning in the tank.

anyway, heres the roughest PS'ed image your ever likely to see. all it shows is where i plan on putting certain plants i.e anubias, which is obvious and e tennellus.






i will let the e tenellus get unruly, i want the wild look. a bit like old wheitwoods tank. the pic is only to show whats in my head.  the crypts will work from the center out wards. r rotundifolia and sp green at the back, other stems mid ground (somewhere) c helferi off center back. moss on wood. pixie on pixie chair   ....you get the pic.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> That's a mad amount of plants there!
> 
> Looking forward to the planting. Even with just that one fern there it's easy to imagine how it's going to turn out and I'm liking it1



plant madness!  



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> how are you keeping it alive?



special invisible water Aaron


----------



## LondonDragon (30 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Nice one Mark, looking forward to this setup fully planted, you can also enter that PS edit to AGA next year


----------



## Mark Evans (30 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Nice one Mark, looking forward to this setup fully planted, you can also enter that PS edit to AGA next year



im sure it gets done more than we think. RAW image files...that's the future!

ive put the order in today and plants should be here Thursday. so next weekend it should be planted up. what ever is left over shall go in to my nursery tank that i have set up at my mums , which is actually a real nice scape. anyway when this scape is up and running, then i'll tackle my 60cm optiwhite. and also I've been asked to scape a tank at my local MA store. which i'll start in the near future


----------



## Mark Evans (30 Nov 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

blimey, 163 posts and not a plant planted   

anyway, heres a pic i took tonight of nature aquarium book 1. folks, for those of you without this book, i strongly recommend you buy it along with aqua journals!  priceless inspiration!





see you all in a couple of weeks!


----------



## aaronnorth (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Are you allowed to post that due to copyright laws?


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

ive seen many photos posted mate without authorisation. the photo is for inspiration purposes only.

if the mods want it taken off, i will no probs.  thanks for the critique aaron


----------



## jay (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Blimey!! With all those plants and the mass of moss at your mum's, this tank will look about 2 years old within the first week!!


----------



## planter (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> also I've been asked to scape a tank at my local MA store. which i'll start in the near future



Nice one! May I ask which MA?


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				planter said:
			
		

> Nice one! May I ask which MA?



east bridgford, near notts. it wont be until the new year due to the holiday period. its a corner tank too. 250l   i've got my thinking cap on!



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Blimey!! With all those plants and the mass of moss at your mum's, this tank will look about 2 years old within the first week!!



hopefully it should look ok from the outset. ive also bought another microsorum slightly smaller than the other. they'll sit left and right if the main branch. ive had them in tonight and it instantly looks full with 2 microsorums. theres another 80 pots or so to go in yet


----------



## samc (2 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

i like how u have done the wood should be good to see how it progresses


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> i like how u have done the wood should be good to see how it progresses



very kind of you to say so samc   

updates folk!

my plant order has arrived and there's good and bad news. the good. i got 75% of my order...the bad i'm missing 25% of my order   yep i did maths at school. the missing plant? 14 pots of e tenellus and 6 pots c helferi. ive opted to plant up regardless of the missing items. there coming next week.

anyway, the plants that i do have are in one word..."stunning" if anyone's in doubt about the quality of aquafleurs plants, just look at the following images. i've often gone to some aquatic shops and seen aquafleur plants in dark dingy, algae ridden tanks and thought to myself...oh my god, i aint buying those. but fortunately I've managed to get some "from the factory" plants! the whole "aquafluer/ tropica " choice was a gamble, but it appears its payed off! 

ok some pics....

the 2 boxes from aquafleur and 1 from rich at aqua essentials, the little boy? he's mine! he's to be sent back to aquafleur in the empty box   





stems, crypts and microsorum....





both boxes...





ive ordered anubias barteri var nana. and ive made a mistake...i wanted the small ones but not to woory i think i can incorporate these somehow   









theres 10 of these things   

heres how they may look in the bigger picture....there's only 3 pots equivalent in there! 





all this to go in to that rectangular thing in the background, plus ive got 20 more pots coming....happy days!





so as you can see ive got a mad 2 days coming up. ive also got the 2 big micrsorums on wood (tropica) to go in and a shed load of moss to tie and 4 smaller anubias plants to go in, so the whole thing should be stuffed even without the missing pots oh and the 5 pots of rotala sp green from AQUA ESSENTIALS!   

laters folks

mark


----------



## vauxhallmark (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

mmm...fun!!!!


----------



## aaronnorth (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

looking forward to it, have you ordered all those plants through a MA store, or directly from aquafleur?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

It already looks amazing, even with just the three pots of anubias! I'm well looking forward to this.

You've got a mad amount of plants there! 

I demand photos.


----------



## JamesM (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

w00t!


----------



## samc (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

wow never seen so many plants ordered in looks like ur gonna be there for a while


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> wow never seen so many plants ordered in looks like ur gonna be there for a while



its going to be quite a task to do this. ive got other plants in other tanks at other locations (mums) im trying to decide on plant positioning i.e microsorum anubias mainly 



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> w00t!



hearin' ya matey 



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> It already looks amazing, even with just the three pots of anubias! I'm well looking forward to this.
> 
> You've got a mad amount of plants there!
> 
> I demand photos.



easy tiger, the anubias does add an instant look  8) 



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> mmm...fun!!!!



yup



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> looking forward to it,



me too mate


----------



## Goodygumdrops (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

:drool:


----------



## Nick16 (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

what website did you get the aquafleur plants from? maybe worth a look.


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

heres some more images.

starting with stems and moss in bag....






crypts....





anubias and microsorum





i dont think there's going to be much room for e tenelus  :?  what evers left over is going into another set up


----------



## LondonDragon (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I don't see my package! guess it didn't arrive today   hopefully in the post tomorrow morning!


----------



## jay (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

There is enough there for TWO 4FT tanks!!
 
Can't really see there being any room for the plants to spread, once they establish themselves :? 
Going to look great, the hardscape is looking better already.
Did you order the Aquafleur from your local Maidenhead Aquatics mate?


----------



## Nick16 (5 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

yeah come on, tell us, where did ya get the aquafleur from????


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> There is enough there for TWO 4FT tanks!!



you would of thought so, but actually i don't have much left. there's about 3 anubias that didnt go in. 6/7 crypts and 5 microsorum. everything else is in. ive left a bit of room for e tennelus but i only need about 5 pots. i'll plant the rest in another tank.

its currently 3.30 am and ive been up all night planting   its been an absolute mountainous task. life would of been easier if they were all stems and plants that go in the substrate. new to the anubias/microsorum plants ive had hard times arranging everything. anyway finally its done. i'm living with it for a few hours just to look and see how things stand but i reckon its about done. obviously you cant really see the stems but they are there. in abundance!   

i'll be posting a whole load of images sometime today but here's a teaser if you like....


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

ok folks, heres some images from last night. i'm just going to skip through them....

all the stems and crypts divided up...





arranging the microsorum and anubias...





the stems...













crypts were also added, moss attached to wood. i still have 1 or 2 gaps that need sorting but nothing major.

immediately  after filling everything was clear as a bell. i let it settle for an hour or 2 before switching on the filter. heres a couple a few hours after planting









theres something to be sayed for buying as many plants as you can. its a valuable lesson im learning. even after planting all these pots, there was still loads of room for more. just look at amanos tanks after planting!





so, there you have it. im pleased with the fullness it has, even without the growth of the stems.theres still the odd change to be made but im on it as i type    thats it for some time now, we'll see what happens.


----------



## George Farmer (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looks good from here.  I knew it would.  

Planting heavily from start-up not only looks great, but reallly helps to avoid early algae issues.  A lot of 'scapers skimp on plants, assuming that they'll eventually grow-in, but find themselves fighting a battle with algae from the start.  No such trouble for you.  Well done.

I like your prep too, with the cling film covered plates.  That's exactly what I do for bigger planting sessions.

Aquascape-wise, my initial concern would be the massive Anubias leaves - _nana_ would have been a nicer scale, but 120cm is quite forgiving for broader textures and as the other plants mature, they'll be less dominating.

Give it 10-14 days and you'll see the stems and the 'scape really taking shape.

What are your ferts, lighting plans etc?

Are you using new Aqua Soil?  Is your bio-filtration mature already?

Please keep hi-res shots from the setting up stages - I may use this as a PFK Great Planted Tank...


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

good questions george. 



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> My initial concern would be the massive Anubias leaves - nana would have been a nicer scale, but 120cm is quite forgiving for broader textures and as the other plants mature, they'll be less dominating.


when i ordered the anubias, i thought i'd ordered the smaller version  :?  i was gob smacked when i saw how big these were, but i did opt to keep them. fingers crossed on that one.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> What are your ferts, lighting plans etc?
> 
> Are you using new Aqua Soil? Is your bio-filtration mature already?



filters are 2 mature filters that ive been running on a smaller tank

lighting is 2 x 54w t5 for 6 hours for maybe 3/4 weeks. i think i can push things along a bit quicker due to having 2 mature filters. i'll gauge how plants are growing before upping the lights.

i've used some old AS and a bag of new on top. also some large power sand, bacter 100, ADA iron tabs.

ferts, i'll be dosing tpn+ daily but im thinking of using EI  8) easy carbo will be dosed accordingly.  

thanks for the input george.


----------



## George Farmer (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

All good mate.  Sounds like you've everything covered.

Are you adding algae-eaters soon?


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Are you adding algae-eaters soon?
> All good mate. Sounds like you've everything covered.
> 
> Are you adding algae-eaters soon?



yes, whats in my other opti white. theres only 5 ottos and about 5 shrimp. so im going to invest in a large crew. i might have to do this over time though. we all know how much shrimp and ottos are  :? on the plus side, i do know i can run a tank for a considerable time without any algae eaters what so ever. i did in the henge for an eternity without any algae issues. 

i'll give the new AS time to leach its amanoia which should keep the filters fed, and then start thinking about what fish i want. a decision im looking forward to making


----------



## Dave Spencer (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Are the Anubias "coffeefolia"? If so, those huge emerged leaves will die off and some smaller growth will come through. This is the phase mine is going through. If the older leaves get too big, I will just cut them off, promoting more smaller growth.

My only concern is that the current shape will be lost once the stems kick in at the sides. Still, you know what you are doing for sure.

One other thing that I have learnt is that mosses look better when growing on vertical wood as to horizontal, but that is more my personal taste and cock up in my 120cm.  

Nice one, squire!

dave.


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Are the Anubias "coffeefolia"?



barteri var nana apparently. i did want the smaller variety. i think i might  of ordered wrong. i mate take your advice on the larger leaf.not until the stems grown in though. it might end up looking ok. dave, i plan on triming the stems in such a way that i still keep some kind of shape, thats the plan at least. ive been tinckering and ive added more microsorum to fill the gap between the 2 main microsorum in the center



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> One other thing that I have learnt is that mosses look better when growing on vertical wood as to horizontal, but that is more my personal taste and cock up in my 120cm.



this is spikey moss dave so hopefully i'll get the full effect.



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Nice one, squire!



much apreciated dave.


----------



## aaronnorth (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

looks good mate, the moss really add's a touch of quality


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> looks good mate, the moss really add's a touch of quality
> looks good mate, the moss really add's a touch of quality



cheers aaron.

ive added more moss stones around the base and more microsorum. 

i couldn't resist, and i do promise i wont hound you with images. but this scape really was crying out for a quick couple of photos. 

the tank approx 10 hours old...


----------



## Thomas McMillan (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Quality!

I was going to say about the gap between the two ferns, but you seem to have sorted that. Can't wait til it's grown in a bit - nice one!


----------



## LondonDragon (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looking great Mark, well worth all the effort  looking forward to more updates


----------



## Nick16 (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

where did you get the aquafleur?


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looking great Mark, well worth all the effort  looking forward to more updates



LD your a diamond. received the moss. will make some more moss stones later   ukaps donation soon



			
				Nick16 said:
			
		

> where did you get the aquafleur?



you'll find that most MA stores stock aquafleur. you just need to be fortunate in having a good stockist near you. 8)



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Quality!
> 
> I was going to say about the gap between the two ferns, but you seem to have sorted that. Can't wait til it's grown in a bit - nice one!



cheers thomas, yeah the gap needed looking at but it's sorted now at least. how your forground coming on? dont forget your barrier


----------



## Nick16 (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

will MA order plants in? how much did your order set you back? how did you do it? did you get the number of aquafleur or did you have to do everything through MA?


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Nick16 said:
			
		

> will MA order plants in? how much did your order set you back? how did you do it? did you get the number of aquafleur or did you have to do everything through MA?



MA is a franchise so all stores work differently. mine is a good one and im friends with the owner. you'll have to find out at your closest store.

price wise aquafleur plants are about Â£3.50/ Â£4.00 a pot. anubias maybe Â£6/7.00 per pot. it's all down to your store as to how much they may charge. i dont think we as the public can buy direct.

hope this helps


----------



## Thomas McMillan (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Hi Mark, the foreground is on hold (just like the whole tank) seeing as I'm a bit skint at the moment! I've got the gravel though, just need to get everything else after Christmas. I'll definately not forget the barrier! Thanks


----------



## aaronnorth (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Your MA is dear for plants - they only cost Â£2.75 each/ 5 for Â£12 at my local MA!!


----------



## GreenNeedle (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Looking good Mark.  Was waiting until you planted it and man you've put a lot of plants in there.  will be interested to see just how full it grows out!!!

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Your MA is dear for plants - they only cost Â£2.75 each/ 5 for Â£12 at my local MA!!



im generalising aaron.im not being specific. bare in mind i got a "deal" on these plants. purely because im going to scape an in-house tank.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Hi Mark, the foreground is on hold (just like the whole tank) seeing as I'm a bit skint at the moment! I've got the gravel though, just need to get everything else after Christmas. I'll definately not forget the barrier! Thanks



good stuff!



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Looking good Mark. Was waiting until you planted it and man you've put a lot of plants in there. will be interested to see just how full it grows out!!!
> 
> AC



theres an up side to the "full" look that didn't dawn on me until about an hour ago. hopefully the ferns, anubias should stay as they are creating the focus of the tank. and when the crypts melt and grow new leafs they should be relativley low, which leaves the stems to grow fast allowing me to prune until there big and bushy(hopefully)  so when all of that has happened i'll have low growth at the sides(ish) and the stems looking bushy at the back, at the same time! how about that for a plan!


----------



## George Farmer (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> ... when the crypts melt and grow new leafs they should be relativley low..


The crypts may not melt.  Mine rarely do, even right after introduction.  They will, however, change form considerably, giving you the look you're after.


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

i should have some cherry shrimps tomorrow to go into the tank, kindly offered by supercoley (cheers andy) will pop in to MA to see if theres any ottos.
i've just got to think of a name for the scape :?:

ive noticed this george regarding crypts. i used them in my small opti white. i didn't lose that many to melt. they ended up having the most amazing coloured (and textured) leaves. almost like plastic.


----------



## GreenNeedle (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I find mine nearly always melt but that maybe because I push the crown right under the substrate to make sure it holds in place whilst my Corys concentrate their organised group snuffle all around said area(s) that I would prefer they left alone for a while 

They always come back nicely though.

AC


----------



## vauxhallmark (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> I find mine nearly always melt but that maybe because I push the crown right under the substrate to make sure it holds in place whilst my Corys concentrate their organised group snuffle all around said area(s) that I would prefer they left alone for a while
> 
> They always come back nicely though.
> 
> AC



  heheh - GOTTA love corys!


----------



## Ray (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Mark, really this is such superbly good entertainment that really _we_ should be paying for your plants!  10 hours in and already you have photo's better than anything I ever produced 3 months.  Keep them coming.

I only have 5 ottos and 6 amano's in my 3' and am constantly surprised what a good job they do.  I'd like to add more Ottos, but only because I like them and they clearly enjoy hanging out together - you could add 5 or 10 more but with the cherries too you already have a decent algae crew.

I only have one question: can we see where you have put your filters and how you are running your flow?


----------



## Mark Evans (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Mark, really this is such superbly good entertainment that really we should be paying for your plants! 10 hours in and already you have photo's better than anything I ever produced 3 months. Keep them coming.



i'd post pics every day given the chance, but im going to ease off on this one!



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> I only have one question: can we see where you have put your filters and how you are running your flow?



currently, and not final, one at each end due to space or lack of it in the stand. flow is good actually, visually looking at the plants wafting, things seem good, better than the RENA but then it would be because its smaller.


----------



## Garuf (6 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> i've just got to think of a name for the scape :?


Dave? No I've got it, Norman! 
Atanding At Forests Reach? Just think pretentious, it's easy then lol.


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

new entries today...

10 cherry shrimp (from supercoley)
10 amano shrimp
5 ottos
1 bristlenose (from other tank)

i'll just keep building his number weekly

so tempted to go with a shoal of cardinals  :? dull i know...


----------



## Thomas McMillan (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Ooh, a Bristlenose, that's different. I've always wanted to keep them in a planted tank - how do you find it with your plants?

I think Cardinals would suit the scape, even though they are so generic and boring. Go for something different!


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Ooh, a Bristlenose, that's different.



its been with me from the begining i cant bring myself to get rid. it just goes around cleaning the wood!



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I think Cardinals would suit the scape, even though they are so generic and boring. Go for something different!



yeah, your right thomas, i'll have a good think about it.


----------



## Nick16 (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

what about rummynoses? they are a tight shooler (sp?)


----------



## GreenNeedle (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

That's what I loved about my pitbull plecs.  Whether they liked the type of algae or not, if it was on wood it was being cleaned 

Can't have mucky wood in the tank 

Hope the cherries are happy

AC


----------



## jay (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Really good look to this already. Expect some good pruning for the stems  
Love the moss surrounding the anubias and ferns, gives an aged look to it already... except for the fishing line  

As for fish choice (bit early I suppose) I think this sort of 'scape really would suit a couple of species.



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> That's what I loved about my pitbull plecs. Whether they liked the type of algae or not, if it was on wood it was being cleaned
> 
> Can't have mucky wood in the tank



How big do pitbull plecs grow?
Do they leave the plants alone?
Was thinking about getting a couple to give the wood in my tank that new look... my algae crew won't really touch the stuff on the wood.


----------



## GreenNeedle (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

they get to about 3" inches long but need to be in groups.  They may not clean a realy dirty piece of wood.  more like clearing a spot and then rasping away at the same spot from then on 

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Love the moss surrounding the anubias and ferns, gives an aged look to it already... except for the fishing line



soon it shall disappear



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Love the moss surrounding the anubias and ferns, gives an aged look to it already.


  

ive added some more, some willow moss from london dragon. what a beauty that stuff is!



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Expect some good pruning for the stems



thats the bit im looking forward to the most!



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Hope the cherries are happy



happy as larry, who ever larry is....  thanks mate



			
				Nick16 said:
			
		

> what about rummynoses? they are a tight shooler (sp?)



mmm, i was actually thinking about those! they are a nice fish. what i do when choosing is buy 4 or 5, put them in if they dont look right take them back!


----------



## jay (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

If you go for rummies, then make sure you get the true Rummynose tetra.
Long torpedo shape with a hint of green to the body.
You can get mimic rummynose's which are exactly the same in colouration, but they are smaller and a more rounded face.
Kind of like a cartoon sketch of a true rummynose  

All lovely, just the true rummy shoal brilliantly.


----------



## Garuf (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Denesoni barbs maybe?


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> All lovely, just the true rummy shoal brilliantly.
> If you go for rummies, then make sure you get the true Rummynose tetra.
> Long torpedo shape with a hint of green to the body.
> You can get mimic rummynose's which are exactly the same in colouration, but they are smaller and a more rounded face.
> ...



i'll be sure to remember that.



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Denesoni barbs maybe?



lovely fish. im guessing pricey. ive seen these in amano layouts (the larger ones) if i could source some id get a few i reckon


----------



## Thomas McMillan (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I reckon you should get a few Dwarf Cichlids like Rams and a nice tetra shoal. It's always good to try out new fish and Dwarfs are amazing.


----------



## Mark Evans (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Dwarf Cichlids like Rams



i absalutley love german rams. probably my fave fish if im honest. i could get some of those to add a certain feel to the set up? and a relatively big shoal of something else. i like the idea of the denison barb also


----------



## Thomas McMillan (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Yeah, German Blue Rams are great, although I prefer Bolivian but I've never kept Bolivians.


----------



## samc (7 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

iv allways been interested in rams but never got any as yet i keep looking at them and wanting some awsome looking fish


----------



## George Farmer (8 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

IMHO Denesoni barbs are too busy for that 'scape.  Fast swimmers up and down the tank do little for me when trying to relax.  Long-term they're too big for 120cm too.

Rams are lovely but need softwater to be at their best.  Beware of fragile imports from Asia that tend not to last long after purchase.


----------



## Goodygumdrops (8 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I'm really torn between rams and cockatoo dwarfs for my tank,both really nice fish.


----------



## beeky (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Ooh, a Bristlenose, that's different. I've always wanted to keep them in a planted tank - how do you find it with your plants?
> 
> I think Cardinals would suit the scape, even though they are so generic and boring. Go for something different!



Bristlenose's in a planted tank are a bit of a pain IMO. They basically get too big and crash about kicking up muck and breaking or knocking stems about. They can also uproot stuff unless it's well established.

How about glowlight tetras or gold tetras (H. ulreyi?).


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				beeky said:
			
		

> Bristlenose's in a planted tank are a bit of a pain IMO. They basically get too big



taken on board, but ive never had a problem with them. don't see it half the time. there not monstrous in size. 11cm max i think. theyve never up rooted anything even un-established plants.


----------



## beeky (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> beeky said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hehe, maybe I've just got a delinquent


----------



## JamesM (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Where is the damn tortoise, Mark?


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Where is the damn tortoise, Mark?



  he's gone!

you didn't spot the pixie then?   you'll have to go back a few pages to find it.


----------



## JamesM (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> JAmesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blind man to Mark, come in Mark... I don't see it! Over.


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Blind man to Mark, come in Mark... I don't see it! Over.



remember i made a comment about a pixixe chair?...no one spotted it!

search my friend, search.


----------



## aaronnorth (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

lol, i think i was just mesmorized with the pictures... i thought it was a plant.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I still don't see no pixie...or a chair.


----------



## aaronnorth (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I still don't see no pixie...or a chair.



it sticks out like a saw thumb lol. I wont ruin it for you though


----------



## beeky (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I thought it was just a comment about something that looked like a pixie chair. I didn't realise there was actually a pixie in there!

I can see this becoming a regular "find the pixie" competition! If you can't see it, think "if I were a pixie, where would I sit...."


----------



## Thomas McMillan (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

If I were a pixie, I would sit at the top of the middle branch, personally


----------



## Mark Evans (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

well guys, your making me smile at least.

a quick update(without pics) 4 days in and ive lost the anubias leaves, but Dave (spencer) made me aware so just trimmed them off when the started melting. there are signs of new ones coming through.

the crypts, i think are not going to melt thankfully. HM is picking up, rotal sp green steady growth. m unbrosum is looking lovely. it seems to be "creeping" which considering its on the 2 sides, is a good thing as it wont throw the height issue. the rotala rotundifolia?....that's doubled in height   and some! its gone mental.

mosses starting to green up. ive added some flame moss to one particular branch. my e teneluss is due this week, so that will go in at the weekend.

cheers folks


----------



## jay (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

I've always noticed that with M. Umbrosum. Almost like a bushy, low foreground plant. Nce in a massive tank, I'm sure.

Hope to see how you've incorporated the flame moss with all the other mosses everywhere. I've just done a re-scape with java and xmas(I think) moss, and I've got a ton of flame moss to use but I just don't think it will look right.
I was thinking maybe some small moss stones in and around certain areas. You going for a big branch accent piece? Sounds good.


----------



## Garuf (9 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Saintly, I might just have a present for you...


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Saintly, I might just have a present for you...



now this sounds interesting 8) ....elaborate garuf


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

12 pots of e tennelus  and 4 c helferi now installed


----------



## Wayney (10 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> 12 pots of e tennelus  and 4 c helferi now installed



Pictures dammit, we need.....no.....DEMAND pictures


----------



## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				Wayney said:
			
		

> Pictures dammit, we need.....no.....DEMAND pictures



im trying to resist the urge to post images  8) i'm going to play this one cool. 

the addition of e tenelus has added the extra texture i was looking for. i nearly didnt put it in but when i started adding it it became apparent that it was need. now its just a case of sit and wait.

as of tomorrow i switch to EI.....for folks who are not aware http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... th=145_146


----------



## TDI-line (10 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*

Excellent scape Mr S.


----------



## JamesM (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's ??????? scape*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Wayney said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As much as I love Rich and AE, Garden Direct are cheaper for all your EI needs 

And, I still don't see  pixie or a chair


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> And, I still don't see pixie or a chair



blimey, keep looking.

i got me a name for the scape....." The Miracle Mire"


----------



## Garuf (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

The miracle bog? There's no miracle about this tank, it was always going to be amazing.


----------



## JamesM (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Should be "Invisible Bloody Pixie"


----------



## Garuf (11 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Bottom left.


----------



## Mark Evans (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

  ...it's doing my head in not to post images   i'm tempted.....


----------



## Mark Evans (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

i've started my EI dosing as of yesterday. now there's one thing. im not really sure if its just me or my eyes, but the tank looks so damn vibrant in colour. surely EI wouldn't encourage such lush colours in 2 days? it really is such a difference. 

anyway..... this was day 1 planted, which you've all seen










here's today, day 8....









as you can see things are growing well. i just keep trimming the odd leaf which has melted on the crypts,the crypts are starting to sprout new leafs now. anubias lost 50% of leaves, but i've had 1 new one already.and there showing signs of more growth.  you can see the stems are growing at a sharp rate (rotal rotundifolia) 

the Micranthemum umbrosum is looking real nice, albeit low. the hm is has just established itself. it didnt do anything until a day or 2 ago.rotala sp green also coming up the rear. The moss also is just starting to turn a nicer shade of green   

so in general, everything is cool. regular water changes 2 x 50% weekly initialy, 6 hours of light, and co2 pumping out. BTW, maybe its due to running 2 mature filters, but ive had no signs of diatom algae.which is the first time ive never had it. (its in thelilly pipes because i didnt clean them before putting them in.)

i told you i couldn't resist


----------



## Nick16 (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

wow, i love it, i could really do with someone like you to scape my tank!!!!


----------



## LondonDragon (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looking awsome Mark  congrats
Can't fault it really, mine is looking crap at the moment, kind of lost the bug at the moment! 
See if the new year brings new setup


----------



## Nick16 (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

im soo jealous of tanks like these!!!, i just wish you could invent robots who are master scapers who come round when you set up a new tank. i can only dream. looking good mark .


----------



## samc (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

looking good i see what u mean about the growth it went a really nice green colour very quickly and ur crypts have grown quick too


----------



## JamesM (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Sweet ^_^ That's one hell of a 'scape mate! I bet you're well chuffed


----------



## GreenNeedle (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I don't think its so much EI that does it.  I find that when I run an EI style it seems to be the high water changes and maybe the extra O that the water changes bring that seem to brighten everything up.  Water clarity is really good with EI when it is working too.

It could also be that when using leaner dosing like TPN+ that if one nutrient is at bare minimum then that maybe is the difference between looking superb and looking good.

Mine seems to have brightened up a huge amount too since returning to EI!!!

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> It could also be that when using leaner dosing like TPN+ that if one nutrient is at bare minimum then that maybe is the difference between looking superb and looking good.



might be right there. because of the cost i really back off with a bigger tank.



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Sweet ^_^ That's one hell of a 'scape mate! I bet you're well chuffed



i'm happy mate. to be honest im happy with the plant growth of course, but the one thing im happy with the most is, it looks like i want it to look like as opposed to falling lucky with a scape.



			
				samc said:
			
		

> looking good i see what u mean about the growth it went a really nice green colour very quickly and ur crypts have grown quick too


thanks samc, its hard to believe but in real life even, the tank looks that green and when i put all 4 lights on it looks unbelievable 



			
				Nick16 said:
			
		

> im soo jealous of tanks like these!!!, i just wish you could invent robots who are master scapers who come round when you set up a new tank. i can only dream. looking good mark .



persistence nick, it wasnt so long ago i was growing algae, just believe in yourself.



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looking awsome Mark  congrats



cheers fella, the moss is all down to you mate


----------



## LondonDragon (13 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> cheers fella, the moss is all down to you mate


Glad I could help in some way


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

ive acquired 3 more anubias plants (small ones) which should fill the odd annoying gap. garuf kindly gave me ten plantlets which i have plans for in my 60cm. ive got some borneowilde wood from AE which if i can tell everyone, is amazing! journal coming soon for that


----------



## aaronnorth (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looking great Mark 
I am thinking about getting some of Borneowild wood too, it looks awesome on the pictures


----------



## Thomas McMillan (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I'm so jealous, this tank is amazing.


----------



## Garuf (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> garuf kindly gave me ten plantlets


20


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> 20



sorry garuf, 20.

heres the last pic for a bit. it's a little like the one from day one, just with PS curves adjustment....






im itching to get a shoal of something


----------



## jay (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Excellent colour, and it looks pristine!!
think its screaming out for some kind of rasbora... maybe steer away from the usual planted tank fish.


----------



## Nick16 (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

try this, it may stay small but get a few in there. sweet colour though, and would contrast the greens of the plants. 


forget most of the text, but the pic is ok.   

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=19844&cid=4150&search


----------



## Mark Evans (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

now thats what im talking about. nice find nick. its that kind of thing i would be looking for. embers, cardinals etc bright fish


----------



## Nick16 (14 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

aparently MA can order them in for you. i dont know the costs etc but i am probably going to try some out. if you get any let me know.


----------



## Ray (15 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Try Rasbora Hengeli Mark.  Smaller copper coloured version of harlequin rasbora.  And consider pearl gourami and bottia striata or sidmuthika(sp?)

Its looking fab, BTW.  

Hows your ammonia levels - you've already got ottos and shrimp in there, right?  2 mature filters is deffo the way to go.  None of this 15+ppm ammonia rubbish like I had...


----------



## Mark Evans (15 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Hows your ammonia levels - you've already got ottos and shrimp in there, right? 2 mature filters is deffo the way to go. None of this 15+ppm ammonia rubbish like I had...



ive not tested, but im guessing there ok.i'm certainly past the brown diatom stage(i think)  i didnt get any.

i put live stock in virtually straight away with no ill effects


----------



## Thomas McMillan (15 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I think if you went for something really small, like a microrasbora or something similar and then got a couple of hundred of them it would look super amazing.

I've got Hengli Rasboras, they're pretty much the same as Harlequins but have a neon orange streak under the black triangle marking. They are also a bit smaller I think. They are nice fish, and I think they would definately suit the scape well if you got them. I prefer them to Harlequins, definately, because that neon orange streak makes them look better IMO.


----------



## aaronnorth (16 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I think if you went for something really small, like a microrasbora or something similar and then got a couple of hundred of them it would look super amazing.



I think they would be too small for this size tank, (well at least a shoal of 100 would be), it would be to distracting, maybe something a bit larger like cardinals - but not them as they are not original.


----------



## Goodygumdrops (16 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Did you see Hijacs cherry barbs?They were pretty stunning and a large shoal of them would be quite something.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (17 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

You could be right about that Aaron, did't think of it that way. All the same, a big shoal of anything would look amazing, just don't get anything too generic and boring.

Cherry Barbs are cool fish, not too popular and used but even though they like to be in groups, I wouldn't class them as a shoaling fish. It could still work, though.


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

the fishy debate continues  ....keep it up lads, your saving me from frying my brain thinking about it. when youve decided pm me and i'll get them   

anyway another 5 ottos added, 10 in all. i'll just keep stocking slowly.

the r rotundifolia is near the top now, and no red.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (17 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

What about another barb? Tiger barbs maybe? Pentazona barbs? I think they'd suit the scape well, maybe even a smaller shoal of zebra danios or something aswell?


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

im actually thinking about a big shoal of red eye teras like i had before. its just soooo difficult choosing. im the kinda person who needs to see them in the flesh...then i'll know.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (17 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I think they'd be cool, or maybe Serpaes.


----------



## Dan Crawford (18 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Any chance you'll be going to MA Crowland any time soon? Don't choose anything till you've been there, that place has loads of quality fish


----------



## Goodygumdrops (18 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I came across this place last night whilst mooching about,don't kow how close to you they are,but from what I understand,they post,and seem to have a pretty humungous range of fish:
http://www.sweetknowleaquatics.co.uk/23701.html


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Any chance you'll be going to MA Crowland any time soon?



yeah, in the new year i think. i was supposed to be hooking up with george this weekend but ive had to alter my plans  :? 



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> I came across this place last night whilst mooching about,don't kow how close to you they are,but from what I understand,they post,and seem to have a pretty humungous range of fish:



nice find. i think its a way for me, but saying that ive travelled tTGM for hardscape


----------



## samc (18 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

iv been ma crowland many times they have loads of fish not as much hardscape last time i went theres a place also near me called woodthorpe aquatics they are the opposite they have loads ov hardscape and bits


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

quick up date, 

my e tennelus has at last started to show signs of immersed growth. it was bought in its emerged form.
the rotal rotundifolia is at the top now and is due its trim maybe sunday.
the rotal sp green. was a slow starter but is coming up nicely now (see image)
the m umbrosum is still staying low, just like hc would grow.it is coming up but REAL slow and bushing of its own accord.

minor crypt melt is all but over with new growth coming through.
mosses greening up 
anubias,microsorum doing good. c helferi...thumbs up oh, and ive added blyxa   

im also tempted to put a black background on this set up. a bit like early amano work nature aquarium book 1

anyway a pic, not full frontal just a taster.


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

and one from the other side...


----------



## Wayney (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Hi Mark, The tank is really starting to shine now matey. It'll look superb when the stems bush out and take shape.
Kudos mate....Mucho kudos


----------



## Goodygumdrops (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Do you know,I could hardly believ reading a thread from less than a year ago where Saintly felt less than qualified to offer advice.I had to double check the dates.

Your tanks rock!!


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Wayney said:
			
		

> Hi Mark, The tank is really starting to shine now matey. It'll look superb when the stems bush out and take shape.
> Kudos mate....Mucho kudos



cheers buddy



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> Do you know,I could hardly believ reading a thread from less than a year ago where Saintly felt less than qualified to offer advice.I had to double check the dates.



thanks goodygumdrops. its now my first full year of aquascaping just over actually.

heres a pic this time last year....dont laugh! ive posted this before. its almost to the day!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looks really grown in already! I think a black background definately gets a thumbs up from me.


----------



## Goodygumdrops (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Lol,I like the sword corner.Tell me,did you start planted tanks before you found UKAPS,and do you think UKAPS has changed your outlook?


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> .Tell me,did you start planted tanks before you found UKAPS,and do you think UKAPS has changed your outlook?



i started roughly oct 2007 ish. 

. i just fell in love with planted tanks and was determined to produce a good looking tank. i started on TFF where i discovered the basics regards co2 ferts but that wasn't till march this year. the last 8 months ive just buried my head in books and the net.  

i discovered ukaps (AAron north guided me, thanks fella   ) summer this year i think, and yes its changed my aquascaping tons. i found who to trust regards information on ukaps and never looked back. i think those guys know who they are (tips hat)
 i feel happy that i now have another creative escape in my life.

thanks for the interest goody


----------



## aaronnorth (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Your welcome, I found your first ever rock positioning in your Rena 300 the funniest, but that too turned out to be a decent scape (still great but decent by your standards now   )


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> I found your first ever rock positioning in your Rena 300 the funniest



much to be desired.  

ok im letting my secret out for my photos. my wife caught my son this evening doing this.... i left the camera out while i went up stairs briefly.


----------



## Wayney (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

That would make a perfect caption photo


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Wayney said:
			
		

> That would make a perfect caption photo



yeah, something like

"DAD! your doing it all wrong, just look and learn"


----------



## Wayney (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Wayney said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was thinking ' DAD ! The white balance is all wrong ha,ha....... silly noob    .


----------



## Goodygumdrops (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

It's been him all along,hasn't it?Have we actually ever physically ever SEEN Saintly doing a tank?All the clues are there,the hidden pixies,think about it.....


----------



## aaronnorth (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> It's been him all along,hasn't it?Have we actually ever physically ever SEEN Saintly doing a tank?All the clues are there,the hidden pixies,think about it.....



lol,


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> It's been him all along,hasn't it?



yep, thats me behind the lens. i look good for 34 dont you think?


----------



## GreenNeedle (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Better than 2 weeks ago anyways 

AC


----------



## Thomas McMillan (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I bet he does the tanks too, eh? We've gotcha now Mark!


----------



## Mark Evans (20 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I bet he does the tanks too, eh? We've gotcha now Mark!



 the secrets well and truly out now.


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

ok, and on with the journal....

i've been reading in a particular ADA magazine that, if TH is too low m umbrosum will not grow so well. amano recommended third water changes almost every day for 3 weeks to keep th up. ive been applying this over he last few days, and it appears that the umbrosum has started to come upwards  . now i dont know much about the the real science behing it, i'm just glad its happeneing. 
the other beneficial thing is the water clarity is jus=t amazing. the whole tank just radiates greens like ive never seen before in my tanks. 

algae issues are zero. ive not had to clean the glass once from the inside, dying crypts leaves show signs but i just cut them off.

ive added some fish, purley so i have something to do....feeding fish and keep bacteria alive. there's a small shoal of embers and some silver tip tetras. these are NOT the fish choice, just doing a job that's all....something to look at!

another thing ive done is up the co2 levels from a dark green in the drop checker to light green. and of an evening there's a huge difference in the amount the tank pearls.

i'm leaving the r rotundifolia until its about 2/3 inches across the top of the water until i trim, maybe a 2 days longer.

the emerged form of e tenellus had flower tips when i bought  them now there immersed there producing the underwater leaf, but the flower stem is starting to grow upwards   would it flower?...i dont know.

i think thats it for the time being


----------



## GreenNeedle (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Saintly, What is TH?

AC


----------



## Ed Seeley (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Saintly, What is TH?
> 
> AC



I believe it's Total Hardness Andy.

Beautiful tank Mark.  Love the anubias, fern and moss centrepiece.


----------



## GreenNeedle (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Thanks Ed.  Far too many abbreviations in this hobby (I'm guilty of using many of them as well. lol)

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> Beautiful tank Mark. Love the anubias, fern and moss centrepiece.



thanks ed. i'm looking forward to 2 months time!



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Thanks Ed. Far too many abbreviations in this hobby (I'm guilty of using many of them as well. lol)



yeah, sorry. it's what amano called it.


----------



## Stu Worrall (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ed Seeley said:
			
		

> SuperColey1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is that the same as GH (general hardness (i think))?


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

i think its GH.


----------



## Mark Evans (21 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

acording to this, its both kh and gh....

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html


----------



## UCBONES (22 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Just thought I'd pass comment as I was fortunate enough to see this scape in the flesh today (when I met mark to relieve him of his Rena 300! - I promise to put together a journal and scape worthy of its heritage but that wont be started for a few months yet). Words simply wont come close to describing it! Suffice to say, that as stunning as it looks in the photos, they don't do it justice or convey the true scale of the scape.

Also, this was the first example of optiwhite glass I have seen and if anyone is in any doubt about the difference it makes, let me reassure you that it is a thing of beauty!

(by the way, Mark can you guess when my satnav kicked in on the way home today? correct - as i pulled back into my drive!   )


----------



## Thomas McMillan (22 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Can we has pics pleeease?


----------



## Mark Evans (22 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				UCBONES said:
			
		

> Words simply wont come close to describing it! Suffice to say, that as stunning as it looks in the photos, they don't do it justice or convey the true scale of the scape.



thanks you very much Dan! much appreciated. your the first to ever see one of my 'scapes in the flesh.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Can we has pics pleeease?
> Can we has pics pleeease?



 soon thomas, soon.

 i'm trying to resist the temptation of up loading images every 5 minutes. 

i'm going to give my stems (r rotundifolia) 1 more day before i trim.


----------



## planter (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

tank looking fantastic mark


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				planter said:
			
		

> tank looking fantastic mark



thanks planter   

last night was nearly the end of my planted tank hobby!    ....

after going to bed at about 10.30 due to being ill, i was promptly awoken by a shout from downstairs "MARK!"

i thought i was dreaming to be honest, and didn't respond. then my wife shouted again. i knew something was wrong and dived out of bed ran downstairs and there was my wife with a lilly pipe in her hand with water spraying everywhere  :? 
i lost about 30L of water. wifey not to pleased.

yours truly had not done the connector up on the hydor external heater and over a period of time it's slowly pulled itself apart   it was a good job my wife was still up other wise the whole tank would of emptied.leaving me with no hobby and probably no wife....mmmm, now there's a thought 8)


----------



## Thomas McMillan (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Oh dear... Someone's been naughty.


----------



## Themuleous (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Oh blimey!  Not good!  Got to be my worse fear with external filters, second only to the whole tank falling apart!   

I empty my 4ft out of the sitting room window, but one time I managed to get the end of the pipe level with the gas flew we have in the wall just below the window.  I dread to think how much water came back into the house and onto the carpet but must have been a fair bit!  

Sam


----------



## Mark Evans (23 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> must have been a fair bit!



yeah, but thankfully i've got laminate flooring and a wet and dry vac. so all was cool in 5 minutes.

while i'm typing a quick update.

the e tenellus is transforming wonderfully now. the appearance is more of an accent rather than a lawn effect. the m umbrosum is growing like hc and is mingling with the crypts and things and actually looks real natural. it's giving me ideas for the future. 

anubias are producing new leaves now.

mosses look radiant.

sp green has  really taken a hold now and looks so vibrant. r rotunfifolia?...hair cut tomorrow. i'm a little unhappy that i cant trim all the stems at the same time. but it's no big deal.

no signs of the dreaded green stuff  8) maybe because of EI, one thing is for sure, i wished i'd used EI along time ago!

 once i've trimmed them i'll pot them up and put them in the other tank at my parents and if anyone wants them once the post resumes PM me


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

rotala...TRIMMED!


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

heres a couple with tank partialy empty...


----------



## aaronnorth (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> rotala...TRIMMED!



Reminded me of Gordon Ramsay


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haha, it well does!


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Reminded me of Gordon Ramsay



f@#*k me it does   

heres a before trim with black background almost 3 weeks in.... and after also day 1 pic













i've fallen a little lucky with these stems, before i would just cut straight through leaving a straight line, but the stems have got loads of new growth below the cut line so i decided to leave the new growth alone. if one takes of quicker than the rest i'll trim it.

i wanted to do a little more maintenance but im feeling ill so it will have to wait im afraid. many more trims until it starts to look anything like....


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looking really good, the growth is amazing! 

Get well soon! Everyone seems to be ill ATM.


----------



## JamesM (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

LOVE the black background mate


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I think those Ember Tetras look alright


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> LOVE the black background mate



cheers buddy, im thinking of adding a permanent one . i think for this scape, it should show the shape of the stems a little clearer, rather than washed out lines.
anycures for the flu?  :? 



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Looking really good, the growth is amazing!
> 
> Get well soon! Everyone seems to be ill ATM.
> Looking really good, the growth is amazing!
> ...



benalyn night and day....doing nothing   

the growth is pretty good. i did ask the ADA guys whether you could use the ADA iron bottom on a new set up and they say its only for depleted AS. mine is quite new and theres a new bag on top and i still added ADA iron bottom which contains added NPK. this is the second with this configuration....

powersand
AS amazonia/malaya
bacter100
iron bottom (not needed apparently but i used it)
 growth is amazing


 maybe by accident the plants are really getting what they want in abundance through a REALLY rich substrate and full on EI


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> I think those Ember Tetras look alright



i'm liking them too thomas. still time to decide fully. hopefully george could put some light on the fish debate?


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

hey thomas, they swim around real well when i change the water. i may consider a shoal of 60/70? theres 30 at the minute.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Nice! I would say get nearer 100 but a they definately suit the scape and it's a great fish choice.


----------



## Themuleous (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Lovely scape 

Sam


----------



## samc (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

looking good it looks as if its been done months ago. plants looking great still


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Nice! I would say get nearer 100 but a they definately suit the scape and it's a great fish choice.



kinda what i was thinking. 100 would look pretty cool.



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> Lovely scape



thanks sam



			
				samc said:
			
		

> looking good it looks as if its been done months ago. plants looking great still



i think it's because of the ferns giving an "instant" kind of visual.

can everyone tell im stuck at home bored? i was supposed to be at a family meal  :? anyway, flu dont stop me getting my hands wet! i've taken part of supercoleys advice and started to cut off some of the old blackening leaves off the microsourum. there's new growth at the rhizome too   

blimey i'm really not the crypt/fern/slow growth kinda guy....i need grasses hc e tenellus, stems in my life, football stadium lighting and life grasping co2 levels, joking aside it's all learning i suppose  

yo ho ho....bahhh! cant wait for my son to open his nintendo wii! boy im going to have some fun on that!


----------



## samc (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

haha i think every parent has persuaded there child they want a wii for christmas


----------



## George Farmer (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I think the 'scape is complex enough to have two or three species of display fish.

I went to Crowland today and saw some fish that you'll love...

Merry Christmas, Mark.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I would get a good shoal of Ember Tetras, and then one or two pairs of Rams. Sorted.


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I think the 'scape is complex enough to have two or three species of display fish.
> 
> I went to Crowland today and saw some fish that you'll love...
> 
> Merry Christmas, Mark.



merry Christmas to you George, and in fact to everyone on ukaps    
so you reckon possibly 2 or 3 varieties? yeah, i guess your right. i suppose its like a jungly kinda feel and could house numerous varities. 

you got me wondering now!  i'll have to check those fish out in the near future George.



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> and then one or two pairs of Rams.



the German blue ram? love em.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

^ George said he thinks the scape is too complex for two or three varieties aka he thinks you should only get one variety of fish.


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> George said he thinks the scape is too complex for two or three varieties aka he thinks you should only get one variety of fish.



you've read it wrong Thomas mate.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (24 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

So I did... huccup


----------



## aaronnorth (26 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

How about some threadfin rainbows.


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

i couldn't resist these rams. there dwarf ones apparenty. little dumpy things. 

i bought just one pair to see how they fit into the scape. i wouldn't want many anyway. george got me thinking about the idea of having numerous varieties of fish in one scape. thinking how they would add to a photograph etc etc.... fish choice is sooo important in a scape.

you can also see the r sp green at the back has gone mental also. theres still old emerged crypts leaves which need cutting off   (lazy crimbo day im afraid) but im 95% imersed growth on most palnts now   

the 2 sae's have been a life saver as in threre cleaning all the crypt leaves and they dont seem to be taking a shine to my moss.....not yet anyway.

heres the pic of the new additions....2 rams! it's starting to look a little more nature aquarium now..... enjoy!

 i gota take it easy on the photo side of things else i aint goin to have anything new to show you soon.


----------



## Joecoral (27 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Lookin great matey!
The rams are balloon rams ( selectively bred to be shorter and rounder, same as balloon mollys and all other balloon fish) not my cup of tea personally, i prefer the normal shape, but each to their own.
Tank is lookin really good, you're doin a good job there, keep it up!
Joe


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

thanks for the reply joe.   at least i dont feel so lonely now  

yeah there like little balloons. i might swap them for the more traditional type. they add a little bit of colour and character. the silter tip tetras have to go ...threre just bonkers, no real swimming pattern to them what so ever.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

woo, i love rams! what variety are they? german blue?

the plants are starting to look great - looking forward to the next full tank shot.

and...get those silver tips out! i saw them in a shop the other day for the first time and they're not a pretty fish


----------



## George Farmer (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Nice photo mate.

Rams eh?  How hard is your water?  Some can be sensitive little fellas...


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Rams eh? How hard is your water? Some can be sensitive little fellas...



I've just tested gh and it comes out at 8/9 is that good enough? i don't know. if they look like there suffering i'll take them out, simple.


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> thanks for the reply joe.   at least i dont feel so lonely now
> 
> yeah there like little balloons. i might swap them for the more traditional type. they add a little bit of colour and character. the silter tip tetras have to go ...threre just bonkers, no real swimming pattern to them what so ever.



I love silver tips when they fight, it is fun to watch as the stronger fish is usually slightly higher and looking down onto the other.


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> How hard is your water?



while i tested my water hardness...8/9 i also tested for amonia which is now at 0. really, can a dirty filter cause so many problems? the bit of bba that was around the outlet is gone. i think the sae's helped too. anyway im glad to say im now  algae free again!


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



dirty filters can also bring on BGA :?


----------



## Ray (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> I've just tested gh and it comes out at 8/9 is that good enough? i don't know. if they look like there suffering i'll take them out, simple.


I looked at this, your water is the same as mine   and some sources say up to 4 others 8 or even 12Gh, so I think they should be ok.  

From the Aquarium Wiki (http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Mikrogeophagus_ramirezi)



> A "balloon" variant of this fish is being sighted more frequently on the market. It is a man made enhanced genetic deformity characteristic made through selective breeding. It is believed that these fish have much shorter life spans[1] and are more prone to swim bladder and digestive disorders due to the unbalanced shape, they will also be bullied by regular German Blue Rams. Extra care is required to look after them.


----------



## George Farmer (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Regarding water and Rams, I think it's more important to match the supplier if they're thriving there.

A lot of imports are the results from overbreeding and tend to be quite fragile.  Probably best sourcing from the Czech Republic rather than the Far East.


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> I looked at this, your water is the same as mine  and some sources say up to 4 others 8 or even 12Gh, so I think they should be ok.



good stuff, the little things have settled great. they've claimed apart of the tank already and come out willingly to feed.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> A lot of imports are the results from overbreeding and tend to be quite fragile. Probably best sourcing from the Czech Republic rather than the Far East.



i'm unsure whether to take these ones back(even though there ok) and swap them with the "traditional" looking sort, not so dumpy type. my MA are pr3etty good on fish quality. i'll just ask 'em straight out....where do you source your fish!

so George, you said you saw some great looking fish at crowlands, care to elaborate?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I would personally swap them for the 'traditional' type because I don't really agree with all of this balloon fish malarke.


----------



## George Farmer (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> ...so George, you said you saw some great looking fish at crowlands, care to elaborate?


Come on over and I'll show you...  We'll even get a nice cuppa.


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Come on over and I'll show you... We'll even get a nice cuppa.



your on.  8)


----------



## GreenNeedle (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Saintly 

I was just looking through this journal to look at the way your tank is as I will be raising my hood open tank style when I get these LEDs fitted in and your photos are good for me to see the appearance.

Got to the pictures where your son is looking at the plant order and Patrick, my 3 year old walked up and excitedly said/shouted 'Daniel is looking at the flowers'

Great memory for names and faces.  Pity he doesn't know the difference between plants and flowers 

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (31 Dec 2008)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> I was just looking through this journal to look at the way your tank is as I will be raising my hood open tank style when I get these LEDs fitted in and your photos are good for me to see the appearance.
> 
> Got to the pictures where your son is looking at the plant order and Patrick, my 3 year old walked up and excitedly said/shouted 'Daniel is looking at the flowers'
> 
> Great memory for names and faces. Pity he doesn't know the difference between plants and flowers



cool, hope you found what you were looking for?

wow, your little lad has a great memory. i wouldnt mind checking your led set up out when its sorted.


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

4 weeks in

another update....stems are doing good. even the m umbrosum is slowly growing upwards. i've had to try and stop the damn thing growing horizontal across the substrate just nip it out where needed.

now I've got a really annoying thing where the time for trimming the stems are at different times. i trimmed the r rotundifolia over a week ago now and i've only just trimmed the sp green today. I've got to try and narrow that gap  8) 

anyway....










as you can see everything is unruly at the minute, but after several sessions with the snips all should come good   

the sp was already pretty dense due to hi density planting in the first instance, so it should end up being quite an impressive bush (oooerr)

the rotundifolia is now starting to take on a pinky red tone to it now, and we'll see how that colouration pans out.

anubias' are chucking out new leaves regularly and so far don't seem to be infected by algae on the leaves (old ones) 

here's after trimming sp green....





its just a case of getting trimming times right now.
now im going in for the sand maintenance, levelling cleaning etc. it's quite easy now i know how to do it properly. and using a barrier was the best thing i ever did. an absolute breath of fresh air not having to pick out bits of AS.

you may also notice the missing stone to the left?...it never sat right and had to go. a riccia slate is filling the void temporally   another change that might come about is the levelling of the sand through out the whole length of the tank. aaron did mention this in the first few pages. you may just be right aaron   i'm glad i got you about!

ok, thats it for the time being. better photos will come in the future, and hopefully a full time black back drop will be installed   

cheers,

mark


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

comprison shots.

day 1....





4 weeks on...


----------



## Thomas McMillan (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Nice! 

- I think the rock on the far right needs to go.
- I think the black background is a keeper.
- I think the sand definately needs to be level across the whole length.
- I think you want some Pygmy Cories.


----------



## Goodygumdrops (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Pretty damn nice.


----------



## George Farmer (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I think Mark is one of the best UK 'scapers and plantsman about right now.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I think Mark is one of the best UK 'scapers and plantsman about right now.



I would definately agree. He's up there with the Georges at the moment!


----------



## mr. luke (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

It looks amazing, and an incredible months worth of growth 
i agree that a level substrate would improve upon the look


----------



## JamesM (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Awesome!


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Nice!
> 
> - I think the rock on the far right needs to go.
> - I think the black background is a keeper.
> ...



taken on board thomas   

actually, i owe the first stone (on left)to george (tips hat) it had been bugging me from day dot, but George confirmed it.



			
				Goodygumdrops said:
			
		

> Pretty damn nice.



cheers goody, a wall of mess at the minute, but hopefully in time i can make more order in the back.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I think Mark is one of the best UK 'scapers and plantsman about right now.
> 
> easy tiger   cheques in the post
> 
> ...



the growth has been outstanding, and now the crypts have settled in there on overdrive too. im 98% rid of emerged growth now!

i think i owe it to a uber nutrient substrate and esimative index dosing.

jamesM!....thanks fella


----------



## GreenNeedle (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looking good Mark.  Makes me happy I am low light though. lol

Keep up the good work

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Looking good Mark. Makes me happy I am low light though. lol
> 
> Keep up the good work



thanks matey, i consider this low light. just like George in a similar tank im only using 2 x 54w t5. TBH, and its being talked about a lot, there's know real need for masses of light to grow the light loving varieties. i think you encroached on the subject yourself Andy. when i switch all 4 lights on it almost washes out the greens of the plants. it was ideal in my deeper 70cm rena tank but I've lost 25cm so there's no need for it.
  i suppose though this is still high light, high maintenance tank....I'm still on a 6hour day over the next few weeks I'll make small adjustments until I'm up to my 8 hour photo period.


----------



## George Farmer (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

It really is remarkable growth, especially considering a 6 hour photoperiod.  A testament to the effectiveness of your set up combination i.e. CO2, substrate, ferts, and circulation. 

What T5s are you using, Mark?

Why bother going up to 8hrs photoperiod?  Or do you want to finish this 'scape sooner rather than later?


----------



## GreenNeedle (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Why bother going up to 8hrs photoperiod?  Or do you want to finish this 'scape sooner rather than later?



My money is on Mark wants to see the scape for longer each day 

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Why bother going up to 8hrs photoperiod? Or do you want to finish this 'scape sooner rather than later?



thats a good question George. i did wonder whether it would be worth pushing the whole thing along by increasing the photo period. if it it aint broke....



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> It really is remarkable growth, especially considering a 6 hour photoperiod. A testament to the effectiveness of your set up combination i.e. CO2, substrate, ferts, and circulation.



thanks mate.

substrate consists of...

ADA powersand, old AS and a bag new AS amazonia, bacter 100 (which is in the powersand) and the extra thing i think helps is the iron bottom tabs.(no scientific results on that though)

ferts i'm using dry powders from AE ....http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... 5d9iklan22

kno3            1/2 tsp every other day
KH2PO4        1/4 tsp  every other day
traces           1/4 tsp opposing days
easycarbo      5ml daily. 

i was doing 2 x 50% w/c weekly but this week has been smaller 25% w/c but more of them due to the cold water out the tap, i cant be bothered to mix warm and cold.

filtartion conssits of 1 2028 and a filstar xp2.

the tubes are..... http://www.lampspecs.co.uk/Light-Bulbs- ... 8Ta38Na390


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> My money is on Mark wants to see the scape for longer each day



i did cross my mind. my wife is in charge when i work away for the week. so it's probably best that its a short day, otherwise you'd of been on the money andy


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

ok last pic for a few weeks. slight alteration on the fore ground nothing drastic. just subtle.i'm not levelling the foreground just letting the slope go from front to back rather than the original side to side...ahhh paint the fence, sand the floor   

George and Thomas Mcmillan! you guys were right about the stones! good call.

you can also see by bringing the lights forward the foreground is illuminated better.

the DOF is crap so ignore the out of focus stems.

you'll have to fill the void for yourself, and imagine the stems bushy. but for now this is where im at.....





check back soon!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

This tank is SERIOUS! It looks 100 times better with the lights forward like that, it was looking a bit dark before. I like how thin the sand is right at the front. Also looks better without the big rock far right. Nice one!


----------



## George Farmer (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Very nice, Mark.  

I'm thinking when you've 'finished' you could get another 'scape from this by losing all the stems, crypts etc. and having an island composition with loads of sand.  

Something like this, perhaps?






Your current hardscape selection and composition is certainly strong enough.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

that's so similar to what i was going to attempt. the whole "sand around island" deal. is that an ada tank? looks like one.

yeah i reckon it's within reach to emulate the above set up. i think it would be possible to completely cut out the stems and be left with a different look scape all together

you know me george, i get itchy feet, so thought of living with this for another 4 or 5 months?....mmmm....nahh  

i got too much stuff flying around in my head


----------



## George Farmer (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

That's 6th place in the 2007 ADA.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> That's 6th place in the 2007 ADA.



coolio, not so much ADA, but ADA in "style" those guys are awesome.


----------



## aaronnorth (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> That's 6th place in the 2007 ADA.



So it shows that your scape could pretty high in the ADA 2009


----------



## George Farmer (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Driftwood dominated layouts are known as 'Ryoboku'.  The ADA gallery is full of them.   Here's another -







I really like them.

I totally empathise with your desire to create new stuff.  So many ideas, so little time...  That's why I have my 60cm 'play tank' and my bigger longer-term display tank.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> So it shows that your scape could pretty high in the ADA 2009



nice thought aaron, but i dont think it would score so high. of course there's a long way to go, i suppose its all down to the appearance of the stems and how successful i am in trimming them.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Driftwood dominated layouts are known as 'Ryoboku'. The ADA gallery is full of them. Here's another -



ive seen that one george, one of my faves.completely obscure wood arrangement. hat off to the guy that put that wood in to an empty tank and thought "that looks good"...imagine it with no plants....now that's foresight  



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> I totally empathise with your desire to create new stuff. So many ideas, so little time... That's why I have my 60cm 'play tank' and my bigger longer-term display tank.



maybe when i've got the other 3 tanks up and running i may push this one to it's limits.


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

so i've had a heads up from a friend regards posting images before the ADA 2009 comp. looks like i'm going to lay off posting images before  may     

weird thing is i never even thought about ADA09 until today. looks like im in!

i'll update via writing but thats it!

mark


----------



## Thomas McMillan (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

It won't be a proper Saintly journal without weekly photos!


----------



## JamesM (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Oh no!

Right, you need to scape up the 60cm just to keep us happy with weekly pics!


----------



## Mark Evans (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> It won't be a proper Saintly journal without weekly photos!





			
				JAmesM said:
			
		

> Right, you need to scape up the 60cm just to keep us happy with weekly pics!



guys i'm on it. i'm scaping my 60cm with the borneo wilde wood from AE. just waiting on a few bits and bobs....light suspension kit new filter etc....


----------



## Dave Spencer (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> ...i think it would be possible to completely cut out the stems and be left with a different look scape all together



I have had my doubts about the stems and overall effect on the shape of this aquascape......mentioned it a while ago. :idea: 

The IAPLC is becoming a PITA for people not showing their tanks anymore.

Dave.


----------



## Stu Worrall (2 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

tanks looking stunning saintly, true genius in there 

Ive never understood the no pics rule for ada entries. is it to keep their exclusivity? (if i spelt that ok)


----------



## aaronnorth (3 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				stuworrall said:
			
		

> tanks looking stunning saintly, true genius in there
> 
> Ive never understood the no pics rule for ada entries. is it to keep their exclusivity? (if i spelt that ok)



Also to make sure nobody can take another persons work of the net.


----------



## jay (4 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

You can still post pics, just no full tank shots.


----------



## Mark Evans (4 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> You can still post pics, just no full tank shots.



well thast me out then  :?


----------



## jay (4 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No way mate, this is all initial stages shots. 
Just don't think you should post any full shots once it starts to mature.

I posted a full tank shot of my hardscape... if they dont allow me to enter my final 'scape because of me posting a full tank shot then they gonna get an angry Jay knocking on the ADA Niigata door


----------



## Stu Worrall (6 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> stuworrall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that makes sense, thanks


----------



## Mark Evans (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

round 2 for the rotala rotundifolia trimming!  8)


----------



## Mark Evans (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

done!


----------



## Ray (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> The IAPLC is becoming a PITA for people not showing their tanks anymore.


Hear Hear!  This is becoming a secret society.  All our top aquascapers are working in secret.  Instead of living vicariously through the journals of others I have to actually look at my own tank   

_Dear Diary, performed another trim today.  Looks great.  Told wife not to open the curtains.  Only 132 days until the IAPLC._

Saintly, this is just not the same without the photo's.  In the old days the above posts would have had before and after shots.  If we have a whip round how much money do you want NOT to enter the IAPLC?


----------



## Mark Evans (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Dear Diary, performed another trim today. Looks great. Told wife not to open the curtains. Only 132 days until the IAPLC.



seriously ray, you made me laugh out loud   

i know, its killing me also. i want to post the before and after images   

soon i'll have at least 2 more tanks up and running so pics galore.


----------



## LondonDragon (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Forget the competitions and show it to us hahaha or you have to do a UKAPS meet at your place so we can see it 
One of the top scapers in the UK for sure in a very short time, well done mate


----------



## Mark Evans (8 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Forget the competitions and show it to us hahaha or you have to do a UKAPS meet at your place so we can see it



 anytime!



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> One of the top scapers in the UK for sure in a very short time, well done mate



well, i'll say thanks but i honestly don't think it's true.i still make simple errors when it comes to hard scape placement.

 with a year behind me now, we'll see what the coming year brings. George and the likes are at the top the tree, just look at the awesome scapes in his 6 years thread. 

hopefully I'll compete in a few years time.  i've said it before, i'm just lucky


----------



## John Starkey (9 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Hi Mark,i have just read this from start to now and i think you have achieved a cracking aquascape,the plant choice is just right in my opinion a really great job,i am still waiting for my bro in law to finish making me a cabinet for my opti-white tank he has started but he is so busy he cant seem to get it finished   regards john


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Mark,i have just read this from start to now and i think you have achieved a cracking aquascape,the plant choice is just right in my opinion a really great job



your a kind man John, thanks   

well this no posting of full tank shots is an blahblahblahblah dont you think?  :?here's a snap shot. I'm afraid that's it   






mark


----------



## George Farmer (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Nice shot, Mark.

Have you done much post processing, the contrast is large on my monitor?


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Have you done much post processing, the contrast is large on my monitor?
> Nice shot, Mark.
> 
> Have you done much post processing, the contrast is large on my monitor?



not an awful lot, mainly what i do before converting to jpeg, correct exposure etc, there's a little curves. this is one of the dangers of processing images on an un calibrated monitor :? ....I've found recently that when i print, the image is slightly darker than what's on screen. i'll have to be aware of that for the future.

i bet this one looks real dark?


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

i've just checked the same images on-line on my wife's lap top and they look fine.better than my monitor  strange


----------



## aaronnorth (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Both images seem fine on mine (and all previous pictures too)


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Both images seem fine on mine (and all previous pictures too)



good stuff, i do like contrasty images though. 

i hooked up my cheapo flash gun today and placed it on my tripod,pointed it into the tank! used a chair as another tripod and fired away. its not often i use flash, but im finding for fish its pretty invaluble for detail as you'll hopefully see here....   i just cant help myself!

the riccia, i could of got without flash, but hey ho....





you've all seen old red eye, but he's made a special appearance.....





and here's my fave, which wouldn't of looked like this without a flash...Mrs ram


----------



## Thomas McMillan (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

that's a nice balloon ram if i ever saw one


----------



## Garuf (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

What on earth happened to that ram?! Is it deformed or something?


----------



## samc (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

lol its just the balloon type i see what u mean tho looks as if the pictures been streched quite like them tbh


----------



## Thomas McMillan (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

yeah, it's a balloon ram. i don't really agree with balloon fish but at the end of the day, if they're there then you might aswell giv ethem a good home


----------



## Mark Evans (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

funny little thing eh?...getting some realens soon. just thought it was good for photography practise.


----------



## GreenNeedle (11 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looks perfectly normal to me but then I have a poor graphics card incapable of anything but 4:3 whilst using a 16:9 screen.

Therefore everyone should buy balloon fish so that they look normal to me without having to change my screen to 4:3 

AC


----------



## Goodygumdrops (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

My lfs had some gold balloon rams the other day,along with the blue ones.


----------



## GreenNeedle (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Saintly - Are the rules for ADA only that you can't enter pictures that you have published/printed elsewhere?  Meaning it is OK to show your tank but you can't use these pictures for your entry.

Of course this would mean holding back the best ones each time just in case you want to use them but doesn't stop you showing your tank off!!

This is the excerpt from the contest site:
_Only unreleased / unpublished work produced by an individual applicant is accepted._

The site is here:
http://en.iaplc.com/about/application.html

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> This is the excerpt from the contest site:
> Only unreleased / unpublished work produced by an individual applicant is accepted.



i read the same thing andy, cant quite get my head around it. 

i even thought about taking the images i have posted on various sites, down. another thing i considered was to not enter and just keep posting. theres not a cat in hells chance of coming anywhere, so postpone untill next year.


----------



## Ray (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

To me, so long as you've not published that photo previously, I should think you are OK.  However, other people may not agree & what it originally said in Japanese might be completely different!

I certainly can't think of an ADA entry I had much idea of before hand, except perhaps English summer & Mark's Dutch tank - perhaps you can ask George when you have a cuppa with him?  With his contacts and experience he should understand better?


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> perhaps you can ask George when you have a cuppa with him? With his contacts and experience he should understand better?



it was George that kindly put me on to the whole not posting thing....2 sugars BTW!

 to be safe i guess no posting shouldn't be too difficult  :? what with balloon rams and the likes, people are beginning to think there monitors are broken anyway


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

A non ram shot....now this really is it. even i'm getting bored   

hopefully the shots will look better with just a variety of fish.things are getting wild now. still one or 2 old microsorum leaves to go.


----------



## Ray (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> hopefully the shots will look better with just a variety of fish.things are getting wild now. still one or 2 old microsorum leaves to go.


Just a variety?  I can count every species of tetra known to man plus a couple more   

But please do keep posting, just without the fish - its easier for me to stitch the images together to make a full tank shot.


----------



## LondonDragon (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

You need to stop teasing us, just get another tank and use your sumatra wood to keep us amused until you show us this tank


----------



## aaronnorth (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> saintly said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  

IMO you can post a tank, just not a few months before the finish date of the scape, as in those few months it will be totally different from when it was last published!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Looking very natural with all of those fish there. They are very well trained, all posing in one part of the tank together.


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> They are very well trained, all posing in one part of the tank together.



i can literally get them to go where i want. the feed from hand no probs. the sae's would take your hand off if they were bigger. i use my son to tease them into going to one spot in the tank. they think there getting fed.



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> You need to stop teasing us



 



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> But please do keep posting, just without the fish - its easier for me to stitch the images together to make a full tank shot.



 jig saw puzzle eh ray?


----------



## Thomas McMillan (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> i use my son to tease them into going to one spot in the tank. they think there getting fed.



Do they like the taste of him then?


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Do they like the taste of him then?



i wrote that wrong


----------



## George Farmer (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

I guess you can put full tank shots up if the final submission will be quite different.

I warned Mark as I suspected I was marked down due to my 'scape being published before judging in the 2008 IAPLC.

My 370 litre 'scape will be published soon in PFK, but the full tank shots are of the tank literally during setting up.  Other, more recent photos, are close-ups in a similar vain to Mark's.  The final submission will incorporate a lot more changes still.

It's down to Mark, of course, and how he personally interprets the rules vs. public pressure to show off his layout.


----------



## LondonDragon (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> It's down to Mark, of course, and how he personally interprets the rules vs. public pressure to show off his layout.


He should just keep us waiting and try and get a good score in the competition and bring the UK entries up to scratch


----------



## jay (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

You can post near as damn full tank shots now mate. Just When you feel like its getting towards the moment of perfection, don't post any full tank shot that you plan on entering to the ADA.

Its all so damn technical... all about competition. Its what kills sports and hobbies


----------



## Mark Evans (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Its all so damn technical... all about competition. Its what kills sports and hobbies



jay, your so right mate. when I started this hobby, i never anticipated competitions and the likes. and to be honest, if I'm not careful I'll drive myself nutty with wanting things to be right   most folk on this site know by now that i can be quite intense when it comes to this hobby.....the thing that was supposed to relax me, is now making me manic!



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> He should just keep us waiting and try and get a good score in the competition and bring the UK entries up to scratch



LD, it wont score well mate. there's too much wrong with it, that's what's putting me off but then I'm looking at it way to hard.


----------



## LondonDragon (12 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> LD, it wont score well mate. there's too much wrong with it, that's what's putting me off but then I'm looking at it way to hard.


Just one step at a time, from what I seen of it so far its a great scape with a lot of potential, I am sure it will look great in no time at all, just keep tweeking it


----------



## Mark Evans (16 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*





hair dryer practise....


----------



## LondonDragon (16 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Great photography Mark, when I grow up I want to take photos like those


----------



## Nick16 (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

are they SAE's? will they not get too big?  :arrow: and then get aggressive? do they eat any algae at all?


----------



## GreenNeedle (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

SAEs are peaceful fish.  You are thinking of CAEs which turn into fish eating machines as they get bigger.

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Great photography Mark, when I grow up I want to take photos like those



 thanks LD. i also took your advice on the moss trimming. its a killer not posting images, it has to be said. technical this is not a full tank shot.

heres one showing one side. you can see the sp green in the back bushing out after its second trim, it will be due trim no.3 soon. i have to keep an eye on the umbrosum as it creeps too much for my liking.i think its coming to the stage where i can get shape to the plants now rather than untidy ones....thats the plan.


----------



## aaronnorth (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

oooh looking very nice, i have mixed thoughts about the moss as it looks a bit dark due to the brightness of the other plants, so it looks as though it is dieing imo


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i have mixed thoughts about the moss as it looks a bit dark due to the brightness of the other plants, so it looks as though it is dieing imo



 aaron, my lights are positioned over the back mate. when i bring the lights towards the front things take on a whole new look   look at the moss in the image with the sae's does that look healthy enough?


----------



## aaronnorth (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



any reason why you move them back?


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> any reason why you move them back?



2 reasons, the first is the width of the tank does not give good spread until i get my susspension kit, the second is, because of the first reason i had to decide which plants get the most light, and i've decided stems get it first. when i bring them forward the forground looks ace too.

this is mid way lighting..... 






when it comes to phototgraph this tank, i'm hiring everything. lights, lens' softboxes....i'm going to town on it.


----------



## George Farmer (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Very nice mate.  

You need to sort out the dead moss though! lol

BTW do you find the SAEs distracting?  For me they clash with the tetras - that are a super choice and nice mix.


----------



## Mark Evans (17 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> BTW do you find the SAEs distracting? For me they clash with the tetras



not too bad. it was by chance they ended up in the tank anyway. (stuck in filter for 2 months   )

i think maybe this week, i'm ridding myself of all the fish except algae crew, ready for the fish that i end up choosing


----------



## Thomas McMillan (18 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

That photo is amazing. 

I like the SEAs, I think they suit the tank. I do agree that they clash with the other fish though, but you're changing them so it don't matter.


----------



## Mark Evans (18 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> That photo is amazing.



cheers thomas

a little update, i've now worked my way up to 7 hours per day lighting. uber growth time   i'm still on 2 x 54w t5s and TBH it's going to stay like that.

the anubis' have now adapted fully to underwater life and are giving off new leaves at will and one has a flower ready to open. i've slashed at the m umbrosum only to discover a ton of crypts underneath it! nice shiny red crypt leaves   

i planted a few sprigs/stems of the stuff in the pic...forget its name...quick grower and i have to say i love the stuff....





whether it'll see out the life of the tank?...probably not!


----------



## jay (18 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've found that the SAE's just don't look right with tetras. I recently broke my rule of only using fish from the same continent and got an SAE. It's just proven the method to my madness.


----------



## aaronnorth (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

The plant is hygrophillia difformis, and i really like that picture


----------



## Garuf (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

It's not it's the other one, that's a fern... Ceratopris or something.


----------



## aaronnorth (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> It's not it's the other one, that's a fern... Ceratopris or something.



ceratoperis thalictroides, i thought that had more of a bushy effect than H.Difformis...

What is the crypt sp. in the picture Mark?


----------



## Garuf (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Nah, hygro difformis is larger and uglier. Grows totally differently too.


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> ceratoperis thalictroides



that's the one. from tropica.

its wendeti green in the front Aaron. the becketi in the back is so nice. i'm tempted to rip out the umbrosum from each corner and spread out what becketi i have into those corners. 

this is the first time really that i can see the true beauty of crypts and the look that they give. more lessons being learnt with this tank


----------



## GreenNeedle (19 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

can't beat good healthy crypts   I am finding Becketti a bit weaker than others and it tends to keep melting from the slightest change like increase in flow or CO2 up etc.

Even if I trim and it gets a little more light it goes   The healthy leaves look good though 

AC


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

well there's a few things to report.

firstly I'm investigating into different/best methods for additional water movement. i'm considering a korolia 3/4 or 2 x no.1 

secondly,after really looking hard at this scape ( 2 other ukaps members viewed the recent full tank shot also, just for feedback ) I'm feeling unhappy with the overall layout, hard scape in places, generally  the balance don't feel right and it makes feel like starting over  :? 

while there some strong parts to this scape as the images show, overall the scape does not sit right. the feed back which i got back supported what i was feeling and if i entered into IAPLC...i'd get ripped to bits by the judges. i'll still see this scape out because I'm still learning tons from it   trimming, dosing , flow etc.

i'm planning the next one already   iwagumi all the way!


----------



## jay (24 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Shame... not a fan of the wood then mark?


----------



## Mark Evans (24 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				jay said:
			
		

> not a fan of the wood then mark?



not so much the wood, i cant quite put my finger on it. when  i looked at the henge it felt right. the same with my 300L rena before i ripped it down. there's a load of things i wished I'd done differently,but i just wouldn't of know because i'd never attempted anything like this, never grown certain plants.i just had to do it to learn. I'm defo turning obsessive now....  

it's good in a way because it's all a learning curve.


----------



## Garuf (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Email me a picture if you want and I'll give you my honest verdict. I'm sure I can help you put what ever it is right without a restart.


----------



## George Farmer (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

You're too hard on yourself, Mark.  The tortured artist riddled with self-doubt.  

It'll very likely score higher than my IALPC entry, if you decide to enter it.  Certainly higher than my previous entry, anyway!


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> You're too hard on yourself, Mark. The tortured artist riddled with self-doubt.



when you look at the top scapers in the world, its not hard to feel like that.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> It'll very likely score higher than my IALPC entry, if you decide to enter it. Certainly higher than my previous entry, anyway!



I'm pretty certain yours is a master piece   

anyway, after some good feed back and a few pointers from fellow members (thanks guys) and a bit of TLC things seem rosier   

i'm worse than a woman  ...truly!


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

side view up date.

ok, ok the lighting stand is knackered. I'm waiting for a suspension kit.  8) 

my suckers dont work for the glassware neither.....anyway.





today


----------



## Fred Dulley (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Crickey...I wouldn't know how to start properly trimming all that haha.
Looks damn good.


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Fred Dulley said:
			
		

> Crickey...I wouldn't know how to start properly trimming all that haha.
> Looks damn good.



 yeah can be problematic. the stem in the corner grew half way towards the front smothering the crypts. i have to nip the shoots out every few days. its starting to grow upwards now.

the rotala's easy enough to keep in check.

oddly enough this is the sparse side. the other side is much more interesting


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

this image shows the one of many little c hekferi plantlets that i have growing in this tank. i planted this stuff from day dot at the rear of the wood, knowing it would take an age to grow. but what's happened is, the old leave have died of (i think cus i cant see) and these old emerged flower heads?....have produced these little plants. there's loads peeking through. i'm leaving them until there tall enough to fend for themselves amongst the crypts or they may go into my other tank.


----------



## StevenA (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

So with the Cyperus Helferi would you just trim below the flowers and plant again then?


----------



## Mark Evans (25 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Tourney said:
			
		

> So with the Cyperus Helferi would you just trim below the flowers and plant again then?



yeah, I've just done it actually. i cut them off trimmed the old leafs off and the stem and buried it.

I've really sat in front of this tank and questioned what it is that bugs me and i know now what it is and started to make things right. 

my verdict?....it's too confined on the sides. i've used moss covered wood and it just makes the whole scape feel choked, it lacks the feeling of "space" what I've done to the left side is take the wood out and re plant blyxa along the sand/AS border along with a patch off newly grown c heferi. and it's instantly opened things up. I'm amazed how different it looks now. so the plan is to do the same to the right side.

now I've tried to be daring by placing c helferi in the for/mid ground like amano does. just to try and grab the viewers attention. time will tell    this is the best c helferi I've ever grown. 

pics soon.


----------



## Ray (26 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

So your Cyperus Helfrei had little plantlets, like in the Tropica drawing (source http://www.tropica.dk)?:




And you just snip them off and pop them in the substrate?

Glad to hear that the remediation plan is going well.  Can you point me to the Amano tanks where he uses _C. Helfrei_ in the foreground, I'm curious to see...?  Need to thin mine out - it does start to bulk out and overhang everything after a time....


----------



## Mark Evans (26 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> And you just snip them off and pop them in the substrate?



yep that's basicly  what I've done ray.  



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Can you point me to the Amano tanks where he uses C. Helfrei in the foreground, I'm curious to see...?



http://www.adaeuro.com/zoom.asp?foto=im ... jpg&descr=

http://www.adaeuro.com/zoom.asp?foto=im ... jpg&descr=

really ballsy scapes IMO.


----------



## Joecoral (26 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Ray said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ooh, I really like that second one, very nice


----------



## Mark Evans (26 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				Joecoral said:
			
		

> Ooh, I really like that second one, very nice



the a rather nce. there are others but it takes an age for me to sift through my folders.

here's my recently chnaged left side foreground. you can see i've added fresh cuttings of blyxa, and to the right 7 or 8 pieces of c helferi. they all look the same at the moment, so may be hard to distinguish.
but for me, it feels a lot more open and less claustrophobic. i might just do away with the anubias too.  





please ignore the riccia farm i have going off left of wood. it's just a great way of growing it for future scapes. i got a moss farm behind the riccia too


----------



## jay (27 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Think you should show some more of that wood thats sticking out over the blyxa/cyperus barrier.
Maye take off some of that moss at the tip?
Or just thin it out a bit.
That will open the scape up more.


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

DISASTER! ....





i'll explain shortly theres no crying emotion :?


----------



## Garuf (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

Please don't tell me you've smashed the lilly or the tank?


----------



## aaronnorth (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> DISASTER! ....
> 
> i'll explain shortly theres no crying emotion :?



  

What you done to the wood  :?:


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

scape dead!


----------



## vauxhallmark (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

What happened?


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				vauxhallmark said:
			
		

> What happened?



everything that could go wrong did. 

i've been away for a couple of days and i upped my co2 thinking it was ok. my wife rang last night saying all the fish were dead...at least 90% shrimp dead... the lot. ive come home knowing i'd have to fish them out. so i decided to take moss of wood due to an algae problem. but as soon as i started doing so, i piece to the right dis lodged. i took that out. found a ton of fish underneath. but from then on, this moved that moved....

you get the picture. i've tried getting it back to how it was but i'm not so lucky   i truly, hand on heart say, i'm gutted. 

it's just an absolute waist of time and more to the point MONEY!


----------



## Thomas McMillan (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

  ohhh dear

come on, whatya done??


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*

one of the other things that added to the mayhem was the ferns and anubias which had attached it's self to other bits of wood. i pulled without realising.


----------



## jay (28 Jan 2009)

That's gutting mate. From a school boy error  
It's all learning I guess.... Just why does it have to be so expensive though!

Bad luck man.  feel for ya.


----------



## samc (28 Jan 2009)

its a real shame for it to be over iv been monitoring the progress every update since u started with a few rocks. i was looking foward to seeing it finnished how u wanted it.


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

jay said:
			
		

> Just why does it have to be so expensive though!



i'm not using any of these plants in the next scape. and i got to buy new ones and substrate.



			
				samc said:
			
		

> its a real shame for it to be over iv been monitoring the progress every update since u started with a few rocks. i was looking foward to seeing it finnished how u wanted it.



thats life samc. it's over to Jay to carry the torch to IAPLC


----------



## jay (28 Jan 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> > thats life samc. it's over to Jay to carry the torch to IAPLC



Reckon there's more sturdy hand's out there for that torch mate.

Believe you're going for a large iwagumi next?
Sure you'll be up and running in no time. Every cloud.....


----------



## Thomas McMillan (28 Jan 2009)

Aww this is such a massie shame. 

I'm actually really upset for you.


----------



## Dave Spencer (28 Jan 2009)

*Re: saintly's "The Miracle Mire"*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> i've been away for a couple of days and i upped my co2 thinking it was ok.



I learnt the hard way that a CO2 adjustment has to be monitored. I wiped out a load of Copper harlequins in my 120cm.

I use a hose to fill up the 120cm, and I make sure nothing distracts me from that job. I could imagine a waterfall would occur in no time.

Have you got a decent photo of the tank pre disaster that may be worth entering?

Dave.


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Have you got a decent photo of the tank pre disaster that may be worth entering?



no, just the one that you've probably just looked at...






really not good enough. sp green had just been trimmed. 



			
				Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Aww this is such a massie shame.
> 
> I'm actually really upset for you.



thomas, it's fine mate. things happen. i've learnt LOADS from this   things can only get better.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Believe you're going for a large iwagumi next?



that was the plan, but i really cant afford anything at the minute  :? i didnt plan for this.


----------



## scottturnbull (28 Jan 2009)

You've got a knack of leaving me lost for words. Hard luck mate. I enjoyed reading this thread.


----------



## jay (28 Jan 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> jay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure you could get a few quid selling some of those plants. Nudge nudge


----------



## james3200 (28 Jan 2009)

Just read your Journal, a real shame

I am sure you will better this on your next scape


----------



## TDI-line (28 Jan 2009)

Hey Mark (fish-killer), 

sorry to hear about your tank, it really was a masterpiece, one of my favorites on here,

but on the bright side i suppose you could always upgrade to a big big tank now...


----------



## Tony Swinney (28 Jan 2009)

Such a shame Saintly - was looking great.

As you say, you'll take what you've learnt on to the next scape and that'll be better for it.   

Cheers

Tony


----------



## Mark Green (28 Jan 2009)

its a real shame saintly.

im so upset for you    as you have put so much work into this scape.

Mark


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

very touching everyone,it honestly means a lot. the plan now is to take the reaming 10 fish (embers and silver tip) to MA. what ottos and shrimp i have go to mums tank. ballon ram survived   SAE'E didnt.
red eyd did, and there munching on dead fish. 

once there gone, i'll take the thing apart. salvage what i can plant wise, i may set up my other 60, not sure about that one yet. i know there's a load of vultures out there waiting to pick at my bones, but please hang fire on asking for my spare plants. they will become available eventually. 

the real bummer is the fact all my good landscape rock is in the MA scape. i could of made an absolute great iwagumi with all the stone i have. that's out the window   

just looking through Nature Aquarium book 1 gives me ideas every time i look at it and 1 in particular where he uses NO hard scape....... the thought lingers in my head now.

I'm forgetting about IAPLC now, competition just kills the passion inside me. i got to do this for me..... 8)


----------



## LondonDragon (28 Jan 2009)

I can feel your pain mate  same thing happened to me back in September when I lost most of my fish and then found them amongst the plants everywhere and had to strip the entire tank  hard luck mate it was looking great.

Next time wait longer before you place fish in the tank, get everything right, thats what I am going to do, now only have 13 fish in my tank and no shrimp, lost my amanos too  

Look forward to your future work mate, you have talents


----------



## George Farmer (28 Jan 2009)

Tragic, Mark.    

You didn't deserve such rotten luck.  You're one of the nicest and most talented guys on here, and your journals are so valuable on so many levels.  

To see this come to such an abrupt and untimely end is very saddening.

I know it's tough at the moment but one day you'll back on this as a valuable lesson.

Chin up dude.


----------



## Ray (28 Jan 2009)

Mark,
What an awful experience.  It seems to happen to everyone, - remember the tank in Nature Aquarium World 1 where he comments there are no fish because the PH probe came out the water and the CO2 went flat out?  Before you strip it down I suggest you walk away for a day or 4 and take a deep breath.  In my experience these situations can always be salvaged easier than you would think in the heat of the momemt.  In any case, as discussed - there was a problem with lack of depth, so this is a great opportunity to fiddle with that.
Remember after my blackout when all the crypts had vanished...?  I never spent a penny on extra plants after then, they just all grew again.  There have been occasions when I've just wanted to cry and give it all up, but sometimes I think it pays to be stubborn and persevere.
Get the CO2 running at a low level, fish out the dead fish, and then take a breather for a couple of days before you decide what to do.  
Thoughts are with you mate.
Ray


----------



## Mark Evans (28 Jan 2009)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Look forward to your future work mate, you have talents



you too paulo, you too  



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> You didn't deserve such rotten luck. You're one of the nicest and most talented guys on here, and your journals are so valuable on so many levels.



thanks George, i really cant believe how attached i'd come to this set up. here's to the next one...



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> remember the tank in Nature Aquarium World 1 where he comments there are no fish because the PH probe came out the water and the CO2 went flat out?



oddly enough ray, i was reading that last night in my hotel room, then my wife rang....spooky.

 isnt it a great book though. i'm becoming a massive fan of his early works.if you want to learn from a great artist, learn from the artist early works   



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> Before you strip it down I suggest you walk away for a day or 4 and take a deep breath. In my experience these situations can always be salvaged easier than you would think in the heat of the moment. In any case, as discussed - there was a problem with lack of depth, so this is a great opportunity to fiddle with that.



it's too fr gone ray. i did try and re assemble it but really didn't work. i have realised why that image looked 2 D....the hard scape was too close the front, so it gave the sense that there was no foreground....or very little at least. 

when i took the wood from the front out, it just opened up. thing was the wood on the sides just collapsed


----------



## GreenNeedle (28 Jan 2009)

Thats a bummer Mark.  Has happened to many of us though.  My first scape was the one where all the mistakes happened so you've done quite well to get this far before anything major like this.

I learnt with the first scape :
Not to use hairnets.  bottom dwellers get caught on it.
Not to use cotton thread - fish get their gills trapped on it
Not to use mesh for moss - Otos get their heads stuck in them
Ensure moss walls have no gaps at all!!! - Small fish get stuck behind them and then others get their heads stuck trying to get to the protein!!

Oh and then I had the CO2 incident which nearly made me give up, but I persevered although cautiously since. lol

I liked this one.  Not overboard on the lights, nice colouration and shape and I like to see wood when its in the tank so that was nice too.  Looking forward to the next one though.

AC


----------



## altaaffe (29 Jan 2009)

That's awful, as said the worse thing that could happen, has.  I really enjoyed looking in on your hournals to see how things were going so it was a shock when I saw the title had changed.  But as Andy has said above and you have also said, we learn from these things the hard way and you already sound as though the gears inside your are starting to gather momentum again.  



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> I'm forgetting about IAPLC now, competition just kills the passion inside me. i got to do this for me..... 8)



As Jay said on his post, probably the best way to be.


----------



## aaronnorth (29 Jan 2009)

A big shame, anyway of turning this into a nursery and try to keep the plants alive? Even if it isnt a "proper" scape. Or you could plant minimally such as this http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2 ... l=2&id=188 to try and keep the cost down.....


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Jan 2009)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> I liked this one. Not overboard on the lights, nice colouration and shape and I like to see wood when its in the tank so that was nice too. Looking forward to the next one though.



from you Andy, that means a lot.   cheers mate. i now got to fish out a load of baby cherries that are still in there.



			
				altaaffe said:
			
		

> you already sound as though the gears inside your are starting to gather momentum again.



oh yes, like a train mate, like a train. aqua journals and NA book 1 getting some hammer.



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> A big shame, anyway of turning this into a nursery and try to keep the plants alive? Even if it isnt a "proper" scape.



a nice thought Aaron, but ultimately a waist of time....no point in prolonging death.  i need to get cracking with the next one.


----------



## Garuf (29 Jan 2009)

Sell of those plants, it'll help offset costs!


----------



## Mark Evans (29 Jan 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Sell of those plants, it'll help offset costs!



70%will be up for grabs soon.


----------



## Garuf (29 Jan 2009)

PM me a list I'm calling first shotgun.


----------



## Thomas McMillan (29 Jan 2009)

Ahh can we reserve anything  i'd be interested in some fern/anubias if its possible


----------



## Garuf (29 Jan 2009)

I'm gonna be watching that sale section, I'm well after those crypts.


----------



## jay (29 Jan 2009)

Yep, Amano, book 1. Those poor rummy's and dwarf cichlid's.

See, even the great one's tanks go pear shaped.  

I do like how this journal is still going, just shows how everyone enjoyed it so... even in death, people are still learning from it.


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Feb 2009)

so let battle commence....

i've taken the forground wood out, removed the landscape rock form front. nicked the blyxa. next 2 weeks should see off a lot of the plants. filter 2 and heater and lillys gone on my 60cm.






you can see my barrier now, floating riccia....just a general mess really


----------



## aaronnorth (1 Feb 2009)

still not that bad


----------



## Thomas McMillan (1 Feb 2009)

go mark, go mark, go mark 

i'm so glad you're continueing this... i think it looks much better than ever before fromt hat photo!

nice one, keep us posted


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Feb 2009)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> i'm so glad you're continueing this... i think it looks much better than ever before fromt hat photo!



i'm still stripping it down Thomas.

 i'm glad you like it though. you  think it looks better?

i got plans for the new scape. 8)


----------



## Thomas McMillan (1 Feb 2009)

yeah, it looks MUCH better with the more open foreground

it's not too bad you're stripping it down... it could only get a little bit better to be honest, i don't reckon it had too much left in it

andddd i bet this iwagumi youre planning will be great


----------



## Mark Evans (1 Feb 2009)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> it could only get a little bit better to be honest, i don't reckon it had too much left in it



to some degree your right Thomas. it was just a case of waiting for the stems, but i was itching to see what they were going to look like in the end. a lesson not learnt on that one. 

but it's still to come down, I don't want to tinker here and there. i want to learn how to get a scape right, right from the outset.   

the next set up is deffo an iwagumi. i'm really up for this with what I've learnt over the past few months. the MA scape has boosted my confidence with the rock arrangement. i just got to get some great looking cheap stone.

substrate wise, it's 80%% old ADA and I'm going with the JBL aquabasis plus....i'm having great success with it in my 60cm


----------



## LondonDragon (1 Feb 2009)

Looking good Mark, more open up front, gives it a little more depth which won't be easy to achieve in this scape.


----------



## altaaffe (2 Feb 2009)

It says something for your skills that even when half stripped down you can still show off a tank that many would die to have.


----------



## Ray (2 Feb 2009)

Looking good Mark, tidy up the stems and wait 10 days and you will have something - the sense of depth and space is much more pronounced - good recovery there!  Perhaps you can rent some fish for the final shoot 

As for getting it right fist time - ha, that's a side effect of getting lots of experience but I suspect the serendipity angle is important - you will stumble on stuff you will never think of in 1000 years - at least I have .  I bet even Amano did for many years.

PS - love the new Iwagumi, its the first time I've ever felt almost inspired to make one myself.  I'll keep my eyes open once hiking season starts in the Swiss Alps


----------



## Mark Evans (3 Feb 2009)

Ray said:
			
		

> As for getting it right fist time - ha, that's a side effect of getting lots of experience but I suspect the serendipity angle is important - you will stumble on stuff you will never think of in 1000 years -



Ray, that is so true. it reminds me a little of when i was a child, learning to play guitar....the want to NOT conform lead me to playing graded pieces slightly different to what was written....sometimes by choice sometimes by accident. The accidental parts always sounded good, strangely enough.   i fully understand what you mean.

the need for it to be right first time i guess can take the fun out of it. I'm just wanting to at least get hard scape right first time.  

very philosophical (right word?) way of looking at it Ray, and in true Japanese way...spiritual 



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> PS - love the new Iwagumi, its the first time I've ever felt almost inspired to make one myself.



i'm glad it makes you feel this way.



			
				Ray said:
			
		

> I'll keep my eyes open once hiking season starts in the Swiss Alps



now I'm jealous  8)


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Feb 2009)

ok, the strip down starts tomorrow by removing the fish. 

i'm giving the ferns to young Thomas McMillan. nick 16 has claimed some of the rotala. garuf...some crypts. the removal of the plants shall happen over a period of a week. so guys just look out for what's left.

i'm only sparing some of the plants as P+P will end up costing me a fortune

well I've neglected this tank for a week now....no co2 no ferts and lights for 5hours a day, and i cant believe how it still looks. but i'm aware that i'm close to the boundary of algae/no algae.

final look guys    the stems were looking Mammoth in the back too


----------



## Tony Swinney (5 Feb 2009)

Sad to see it go Mark - I'd be very happy to have that in my lounge   

Good luck with the new scape, I'm sure it will be a cracker !

Tony


----------



## Thomas McMillan (5 Feb 2009)

Ahh again, this is such a shame but I guess what needs to be done needs to be done, eh  at least we'll have another journal to look forward to and I bet you and your faimly has enjoyed having this in your lounge!

Thanks for allowing me to have ferns too  really nice of you, i don't mind paying p+p if want


----------



## Mark Evans (5 Feb 2009)

Thomas McMillan said:
			
		

> Thanks for allowing me to have ferns too  really nice of you, i don't mind paying p+p if want



no worries mate. you've always been a strong source of encouragement even when things went bad for me, your also very polite.16 right?....you act much older and so for that you can have em'


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## Mark Evans (6 Feb 2009)

let battle commence...


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## John Starkey (6 Feb 2009)

Hi Mark,wow i feel another journal coming on     ,seriously i cant wait to see what you will be doing next,regards john.


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## aquaticmaniac (6 Feb 2009)

If only my tanks could look as good as your neglected 'scapes. Can't wait to see how it turns out this time


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## Mark Evans (6 Feb 2009)

aquaticmaniac said:
			
		

> If only my tanks could look as good as your neglected 'scapes. Can't wait to see how it turns out this time



hopefully better than the last. fingers crossed

well i'm stripping the plants now, and i've got so many crypts. (all claimed) the one animal that came through the gassing was my cherries. i got 10 of supercoley about 8 weeks ago and i'm stunned how many there are   i thought they'd died....they've claimed the umbrosum as there home! there's too many to even think about counting. these little things will be going in my 60cm


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## jay (6 Feb 2009)

:'(

*thinks of Marks new scape*


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## aaronnorth (7 Feb 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> aquaticmaniac said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



tough shrimp!


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## YzemaN (7 Feb 2009)

Hoka hey!
But we all know your tanks are like the Phoenix. Looking forward to the gumi


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## Garuf (12 Feb 2009)

Hey saintly, got your plants today, how do you tell the difference between the two types of crypt?


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