# Bubble Counter????



## backtotropical (26 Dec 2007)

Hi,

Can anyone tell me if a bubble counter is necessary for pressurised CO2?

The kit i'm considering doesn't have one and i'm just curious.

Please excuse my ignorance, but i've never used pressurised CO2 before.

The kit i'm looking at is the 300 litre one in the link below.

http://www.dennerle.de/EN/HG26UG04.htm

Cheers

Backtotropical


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## George Farmer (26 Dec 2007)

It depends on the diffuser or reactor.

If you have the ladder (or 'Flipper', that Dennerle call them) style, then these act as bubble counters, as you can seen the bubble production.

Glass/ceramic diffusers or inline reactors need a bubble counter, as there's no other way to accurately monitor CO2 production.

So in short, you don't need a bubble counter if you go for the Dennerle Comfort-Line Professional and use the supplied diffuser.

HTH.


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## backtotropical (26 Dec 2007)

Thanks George,

Would you recommend this as a good kit? I have a Carbo Plus system just now and it's rubbish. I don't want to make the same mistake again.

Also, it's for a 260 litre tank. How long do you think the 500g cylinder will last? The solenoid is seperate and is Â£80, so i don't want to buy one. I was thinking i would run CO2 24/7 and use an extra powerhead at night to drive off excess CO2. Good idea?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Backtotropical


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## sks (27 Dec 2007)

Being an ex dennerle user myself I can comment on the following:

1) their regulator is crap. The fault is not the regulator itself but the needle valve on it. Lets just say that the design "beggars belief". I sent the needle valve to one shop to show him just how bad - and pathetic - a design it was. I bought a no frills regulator from this shop and used the needle valve on my Dennerle regulator. I only like the Dennerle regulator for the body encasement and the fact that you can change the sealing rings. I don't know what their new regulator looks like, but I wouldn't care to know.

2) because of the needle valve design you CANNOT connect your solenoid between your regulator and its needle valve. My changing the needle valve let me do this.

3) You can use RO tubing for CO2 proof hose, and this means you don't have to spend money on the expensive dennerle CO2 proof hose. You can use silicone hose too but CO2 will vent off the plasticsers from it and harden it over time because silicone has "holes" in it.

4) the dennerle non return valve is useless, there are better non return valves out there that do the same job without requiring so much pressure

5) the dennerle bubble counter is basic but perfectly adequate for use

6) I'm not a fan of their CO reactors/diffusers. I use the Dupla external CO2 reactor which is not available now, a good replacement would be the aqua medic unit

7) the best solenoid valve is the aqua medic pulse unit. You pay more for this, but it's a wonderful piece of equipment since it only runs the energy required during switching, and standby is a very low energy draw. I have a brand new dennerle solenoid that I never used and I'm happy to sell to you for a small sum if you want it.


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## George Farmer (27 Dec 2007)

sks said:
			
		

> Being an ex dennerle user myself I can comment on the following:
> 
> 1) their regulator is crap. The fault is not the regulator itself but the needle valve on it. Lets just say that the design "beggars belief". I sent the needle valve to one shop to show him just how bad - and pathetic - a design it was. I bought a no frills regulator from this shop and used the needle valve on my Dennerle regulator. I only like the Dennerle regulator for the body encasement and the fact that you can change the sealing rings. I don't know what their new regulator looks like, but I wouldn't care to know.



Interesting.

I love my Dennerle reg (classic pro).  I've used six different manufacturers and it's the best so far.  I've had it about 4 years with no issues, solenoid included (Aqua Medic).


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## sks (28 Dec 2007)

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Interesting.
> 
> I love my Dennerle reg (classic pro).  I've used six different manufacturers and it's the best so far.  I've had it about 4 years with no issues, solenoid included (Aqua Medic).



you will notice that the valve outer body is plastic and it seals itself by compression at both ends, with the odd o riing of course. This is one of the worse designs imaginable. I have both the old and the newer version.  Regulators are regulators, there's nothing magical or fancy about them, if you've got a bad one it's more likely that it's shoddy in sealing the manifolds etc.  with PTFE tape. Can you show  me a picture of your regulator setup just out of interest. I use to use the old AB solenoid (3.6 watts) and that got warm, the new dennerle one is about 2 watts so that doesn't get warm that much. And the pulse solenoid does not heat on the metal body.


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## sks (1 Jan 2008)

George,

Below is a photo of the needle valve assembly of my old profi regulator that I took to parts (I don't use it anymore but can probably put it back together and it would work). Here you can see the O ring is to seal the two plastic parts, but the sealing of the plastic is by compression to the metal, you can also make out the hole on the metal body that the CO2 comes out of. I don't know what Dennerle were thinking when they designed this, but it does beggar belief.







Also here is the regulator body, sorry about the quality, as you can see we have a black rubber sealing the connection to the pressure gauges so there is no need to PTFE their threads.


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## GreenNeedle (2 Jan 2008)

Not sure about not being able to connect the solenoid to a regulator is a problem.  Not many of us do it this way (I never did before I went 24/7.)

Its much more simple to screw the needle valve into the reg and then connect the solenoid 'inline' with a small piece od CO2 ose from needle valce to solenoid.

This does the same job as far as I know.  I think it was Zig a long while back who showed me he also does it this way.

As for BTT's question r.e longevity of the bottles.  Mine are 600g welding ones so just a little more content.  They last for 4-6 months on 1bps on a 33USG/125Ltr.

Remember my 1bps may be more or less than other people's 1bps. different bubble counters let different size bubbles through so each person should take 1bps as their starting oint and then adjust according to their own observations drop checker/fish wise.

Andy


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