# Easycarbo Short term fix or not?



## AverageWhiteBloke (10 Mar 2010)

Just wondering if anyone solely uses Easycarbo or similar products as a quick fix to co2 problems or as their long term solution to adding carbon?
I'm having problems adding co2 mainly due to my tank design being a wet dry filtration and a wasteful co2 diffuser. I'm trying at the moment to modify the filter set up to try and seal it which is very difficult or even considering scrapping it and changing to canister filtration. In the mean time I have bought some easycarbo to prevent co2 related problems and at the small doses recommended I was thinking is there an economical advantage to gas compared to liquid, or are there any problems related to solely using easycarbo?

Interested in what people here do for their co2.


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## ghostsword (10 Mar 2010)

Hi, I use it everyday, not as main CO2 into the tank, but to ensure that I don't run out of it.

As my tank has much more plants than fish, I feel that the more CO2 I have the better. Also Easycarbo kills algae, so that is good.

I do 2ml daily for my 120L tank, early morning.


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## Mr T (10 Mar 2010)

Hi,

I've been using AE aqua carbon as the sole source of carbon since setting up my tank. CO2 isn't really practical for me as I'm away quite a lot and dose this via peristaltic pump (see journal entry http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10198 for more details) In my 260l tank I dose 12ml a day. I started at a much lower dose and slowly increased to this over a number of weeks. I have both shrimp and vallis in my tank, which are both supposed to be highly susceptible to the glutaraldehyde in these liquids. Glut is pretty nasty stuff (there was a fairly heated discussion on it on this forum not so long ago) so use it with caution, do a search for it on Google and you'll see what I mean. So far however I have had excellent results from using it and both the shrimp and vallis are doing fine. As to its long term viability, only time will tell. I've only been running my tank for about 2 1/2 months so am far from an authority on long term use!

Tesco


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## ghostsword (10 Mar 2010)

Thanks Mr T, the thread viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6854 was very informative.

I have been using EasyCarbo for a while now. Will stop using it, just in case. I got a open top tank, and kids in the house, if any of them developed any respiratory problems I wouldn't be able to forgive myself. 

Will just have to get a larger CO2 bottle, my 120L goes thru the 500gr bottle in less than a month.


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## Mr T (10 Mar 2010)

I don't think that the concentrations used in an aquarium and the volumes used should pose any real health risks (just think of all the junk you inhale walking down a busy road!). But I understand your concerns, and lets face it your kiddies long term health is far more important than any aquarium plant!

Tesco


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## ghostsword (10 Mar 2010)

You are right about the junk we breath in walking down the street...

I have now purchased a JBL 2kg bottle, coupled with the two 500gram bottles I have should be enough CO2 for my 120L tank, while one is being refiled the others will be pumping CO2 into the tank.


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## Mr T (10 Mar 2010)

Might be worth keeping the easycarbo though (well out of the wee ones reach of course) as it's great for spot dosing algae, should you ever get any! 

Tesco


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## a1Matt (10 Mar 2010)

AverageWhiteBloke said:
			
		

> Just wondering if anyone solely uses Easycarbo or similar products as a quick fix to co2 problems or as their long term solution to adding carbon?



Long term for me.

I dose 1ml AE aqua carbon a day in a 160l, this is 1/3 starting dosage listed on bottle.

This works out more economical than pressurised Co2 did for me. Fast growth is not my goal though, if it were I would still be on pressurised.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (11 Mar 2010)

> This works out more economical than pressurised Co2 did for me. Fast growth is not my goal though, if it were I would still be on pressurised.


Pleased to hear that at least I have the option, like I mentioned my set up an Aqua one AR850 has in my eyes a low maintenance filter system, everything is easily accessible with filters being able to be cleaned and changed in minutes.A winner for me with my work commitments and limited time. It also has 3 lights above which I find rare in a set up in this price range. I have switched off one of the tubes to try and reduce my carbon uptake but its always there should I have some plants with higher lighting demands  8) 
Unfortunately the filter as good as it is at adding o2 is equally as good at reducing co2   Now I know people are getting good results solely using easy carb I'm under less pressure to do something about it. By my estimates my 150ltr tank adding 1ml per 50ltr a bottle is going to last 5 1/2 month for Â£10. I would get nowhere near that with a 600gram co2 bottle of equivalent price.
I think my next stop is the DIY side of UKAPS and see if anyone there has any ideas how to seal up my wet dry compartments, Tom Barr has already advised me on the use of tape and if he gets good results with wet/dry filters I guess its not over yet for my filter   I think though in Toms systems he has underneath tank wet/drys which over flow direct from the tank where mine is situated above the tank in the lid making it very difficult to get totally sealed and to prevent the co2 from de-gassing up there I guess nothing BUT totally sealed will make a difference.

http://www.aquaone.co.uk/documents/850980lowres30px.pdf
Warning that link is a 600kb PDF.

I guess for now Easy Carbo to the rescue   saves me buying a canister and chopping holes out of my lid.
Finally I'm not sure how EasyCarbo works I take it that its purely a chemical thing? Once added to the aquarium will it be there until it is used or does it cause a reaction in the aquarium making co2 that my filter will still remove?


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## ghostsword (11 Mar 2010)

Mr T said:
			
		

> Might be worth keeping the easycarbo though (well out of the wee ones reach of course) as it's great for spot dosing algae, should you ever get any!
> 
> Tesco



I am keeping it alright, it is fab product, just some controversy about it.

When my Java Fern  had some dark green algae on it, I diluted EasyCarbo to 1/2 water and sprayed it directly on the leaves, left it for 5 minutes outside the water and now the fern is looking it's best, no sign of algae.


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## Mr T (11 Mar 2010)

> Finally I'm not sure how EasyCarbo works I take it that its purely a chemical thing? Once added to the aquarium will it be there until it is used or does it cause a reaction in the aquarium making co2 that my filter will still remove?



I remember reading somewhere (buggered if I can find it now, typical!  ) that its broken down by the plants into a useable form of carbon. Over the space of 24 hours it breaks down anyway (exposure to light?) so it does not accumulate in the tank. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

Tesco


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## JamesC (11 Mar 2010)

Once added to the aquarium the  liquid carbons have a half life of about 6 hours. This means that after 6 hours there is 50% the active ingredient left, after 12 hours there is 25%, etc. They also decompose in the bottle so you shouldn't keep them for long periods of time.

Coming back to the use of liquid carbons I would never use them or recommend anyone else using them. Even at the concentrations that are in the bottle they can cause serious health problems. Short term use isn't generally the problem but it's the small daily exposure over a period of time that can cause problems. Some people may never have an a reaction but some people do have serious reactions to these chemicals which has been shown by the many reports that were linked to in this thread - http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6854 - that was mentioned earlier.

For those of you that think it is harmless and are quite happy to breathe in the fumes and pour it over your fingers then good luck to you. I've worked in the chemical industry for a good chunk of my life and seen first hand how becoming senstized to chemicals has really affected peoples lifes in a bad way. 

It's up to you if you wish to gamble with your health.
James


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## LondonDragon (11 Mar 2010)

James is there a safe alternative other than dosing actual CO2?


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## JamesC (11 Mar 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> James is there a safe alternative other than dosing actual CO2?


Not that I'm aware of. CO2 is so much better than Excel, etc anyway.

James


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## LondonDragon (11 Mar 2010)

JamesC said:
			
		

> Not that I'm aware of. CO2 is so much better than Excel, etc anyway.


Thanks James, since I started heavy dosing my tank again with EC I have noticed a few things.

- The blisters in my fingers have returned, was having an issue with this sometime ago, then it went quiet, then started with the EC and that came back just never even thought they could be related.
- Being an asthma sufferer in the past, I have noticed some breathing problems, again never thought it could be related, but been reading up on it and its a little scary, I know what I will be doing with the two bottles of EC I have when I get home.

Could be all a coincidence but I will book a doctor appointment and mention I have been exposed to this stuff and see what the doctor says. Been having some spells of dizziness also which the doctor have been puzzle about since all test we have done don't show any irregularities.

Time to go low tech on the tanks I think...


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## JamesC (11 Mar 2010)

Doesn't sound too good Paulo. If you don't mind I'd be interested in hearing what your doctors says about it.

I noticed that in the link provided in this discussion - Is this guy bonkers?! - Tom Barr says this about gluteraldehyde/Excel, Easy Carbo etc.


> The product is very toxic, I'm even wondering if folks should even use it for aquariums..........the vapor is none too good.



James


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## ghostsword (12 Mar 2010)

Better not to use the product I think. 

I have about a litre at home and will sell it on ebay, just to get rid of it, it is still brand new and closed.

CO2 is safe to use on a tank and there are no side effects, they even use it for beverages.

Obviously we breath in all sorts of stuff on the streets, but there is not need to bring the nasty stuff in the home, right?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Mar 2010)

Hmm interesting stuff even the most experienced people are still unsure, I have read through the debate and digested as much as possible. Seems to me the biggest problem here is the red tape around it and the different licensing laws of chemicals. I had the same problem with Mr Squiggles my daughters toy Hamster   After reports of certain toxins http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8398586.stm the one she got for Xmas had to be put into isolation because different governing bodies couldn't seem to make their mind up a bit like what were experiencing here.

Again I'm probably going to go with caution on this one until a definitive answer comes out, I have 500ml of the EC one bottle of which is still sealed. The one I have opened I will carry on using until I get my co2 system sorted or should I say filter. Looks like I'm looking for a canister filter   I have latex gloves at work so will use these when dosing. 

Sometimes though I'm a bit dubious about H&S legislation, I know in my industry a lot of it is diabolical and they seem to put everything as an hazard until they know more about it. In all fairness I don't suppose they have the resources to test every chemical that comes on the market. I have been to shows where people have been juggling with chain saws and doing somersaults bouncing on a plank but I can't work 2 feet off the ground on a step ladder   Go figure.

Anyway I digress   so I guess the answer to my question is that EC IS a short term fix but not because of the products 
capabilities but due to the possible dangers of long term exposure to chemicals that may/may not be in there because of the manufacturers keeping silent about its product and the HS ppl not being sure of its effects or at what doses.

Back to the drawing board   Ah well I prefer pressurised co2 anyway, at least with the DC you actually know what's going on in the tank. I'm a bit obsessive   so putting chemicals in the tank without knowing what it was or what it was doing wasn't sitting well, I just thought I'd found a wonder solution for my co2 requirements.


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## ghostsword (12 Mar 2010)

Yep, I think that the issue is that there is a lack of information of what the product does, and the belief that long term exposure is harmful. 

I believe that this was a good thread, and a lot was learnt from it, at least I did.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Mar 2010)

> Once added to the aquarium the liquid carbons have a half life of about 6 hours. This means that after 6 hours there is 50% the active ingredient left, after 12 hours there is 25%, etc.



Me too I'm going to start putting my dose in before the lights come on instead of before I leave for work in the morning.

The health side of it has been very important as there has been no mention of this either from the retailer or on the bottle, you would have thought there would have been a disclaimer or warning label at some point. Seems odd that a chemical as dangerous as this which I think were pretty sure is in there does not come with some warning.


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## JamesC (12 Mar 2010)

They don't put any warnings on the label as by law they don't have to. Would you buy an aquarium product if it had these warnings which I've taken from the MSDS for aqueous glutaraldehyde?


> DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES EYE BURNS. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED, INHALED OR ABSORBED THROUGH SKIN. CAUSES SEVERE SKIN IRRITATION. MAY CAUSE ALLERGIC SKIN REACTION. CAUSES IRRITATION TO RESPIRATORY TRACT.



James


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## ghostsword (12 Mar 2010)

From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde
...the biocidal effect of glutaraldehyde kills most algae at concentrations of 0.5 - 5.0 ppm
Adverse reactions have been observed by some aquarists at these concentrations in some aquatic mosses, liverworts...

So it might kill mosses? That will put off a lot of people..  LondonDragon for example..


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## AverageWhiteBloke (12 Mar 2010)

> They don't put any warnings on the label as by law they don't have to


There's something seriously wrong with that law


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## a1Matt (17 Mar 2010)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> JamesC said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have also developed what looks (and feels) like burns on the palms of my hands since using a liquid Carbon supplement (AE's aqua carbon). 

I never considered that it could be connected with the carbon.  However, after seeing this thread and also meeting up with a couple of members over the weekend and seeing similar on there hands I now strongly suspect it may be triggered by the liquid carbon.  Needless to say I have stopped using it.


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## ghostsword (17 Mar 2010)

... just buy CO2 bottles.. safer that way...


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## AverageWhiteBloke (27 Mar 2010)

I'm experimenting with DIY co2 at the moment with a nano diffuser to back up my pressurised, I'm going to carry on with the liquid carbon cautiously until I get some good readings from my drop checker. Unfortunately my tank is very good at getting rid of co2 so I'm sort of stuck with it unless I splash out on a different filtration system.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (31 Mar 2010)

Success with my home made DIY generator   Last two days have had good green co2 levels, Using a combination of both pressurised and diy I have more control over the co2, I'm using the diy as my main constantly running co2 then fine tuning it down with the pressurised. Soon as my levels get right I can turn down the pressurised until the ferment begins to slow then turn it back up until the diy gets going on a fresh batch.

My top tip is be very carefull with glass nano diffusers I had to buy two   Now going to gradually wean the tank off Easycarbo and just get it out on special occasions or when I find myself with neither co2 due to lack of timing.


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