# Facebook Planted Tank Groups



## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

Am I glad to see you guys! Jesus, I joined a Facebook group a long time ago mainly just to browse people's tanks looking for inspiration, didn't really comment much. I happened to comment on a guys tank who didn't want to use gas whose plants looked like they were stretching to the surface. Also looked a bit stringy. All I done was suggested turning down the lights a bit and that some liquid carbon might help also and referenced Walsted about aerial growth and that might be the reason the plants were stretching. Fair comment? 

Well, did I get it big style! This guy came back with someone, who to be fair seemed to know and do a bit and what happened next can only be described as a total onslaught and character assassination. My phone is constantly bleeping non stop of people pulling everything I said apart, saying I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about. It's as if suggesting LC was in in the same league as feeding bleach to babies.

Worst of it is, now I don't want to leave the group in case they all think there he goes with his tail between his legs, told you he was all wrong.  I've hit the point now where the messages have truncated that much into sub conversations I can't even keep up with who's slagging me off now. What is wrong with the people? Seems like a mainly a US group (No offence to any US members) but they just don't seem to accept any debate whatsoever and there appears to be some people who know there stuff followed by little groups of minions who hang out of their @rse$  hanging off every word without any input from themselves. The best you can hope for is a GIF off them calling you an idiot even when you link scientific papers proving what you're saying has some credence.

What a really bad experience, anyone else came across this? Doesn't sit well with me, I'm more of a puchy facey type person (Not clever I know but I'm working on it) than a keyboard warrior but honestly, so agitated right now.


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## foxfish (15 Feb 2018)

Ha Ha, yes I get that sort of thing on other forums & Facebook. Not about planted tanks as I don't participate on any Facebook  aquarium pages but on other subjects I often have to go out in the garden & scream...
The Americans just don't seem to have the same sense of humours as us Brits & often do things in a different way!
I used to get particularity  upset on Koi forums as I was all too often shot down in flames even though I was talking about real life experience & events that were fact!
Probably the most emotive subject I participate in would be guitar building, boy oh boy are some guys deep into the matrix!


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## Edvet (15 Feb 2018)

foxfish said:


> humours as us Brits


......................


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

So glad it wasn't just me @foxfish I feel a lot better now. They're still at it from last night! Glute seems to be a very contentious issue. I'm just trying to find the right words to get out of the group without losing face but I suppose when I'm gone who cares what they say. Lots of name dropping Tom Barr going on and even our own George Farmer. I wouldn't say Tom or George are friends of mine, well sort of, we are online friends and outside of this forum we don't talk about planted tanks and I know some of the things I said they would probably agree with but I dare not link them in to this forum and comments Tom and George have made in case the hoards of marauding idiots follow me here where I feel safe haha.

I'll probably just go in style in a minute, drop the F bomb, tell everyone what I think of them and slip away like a thief in the night.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

BTW, before I get a roasting in here as well  The reason I think Tom and George would agree with me is not because I think we're on a level. I learned it from them in the first place!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

As for you @Edvet if you think "Us Brits" don't have a good sense of humour....




 

Sorry mate, I thought I was still in the facebook group  Only joking pal but this is the kind of crap I'm up against.


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## Edvet (15 Feb 2018)

Never let your selfesteem be influenced by (a-)social media


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





foxfish said:


> Probably the most emotive subject I participate in would be guitar building


I can imagine.

A few years ago I used to be more active on a Cycad growing group, most people were fine (and American) and a number of the posters were scientists, there was also a number of people actively involved in selling Cycad and Cycad seed, a potentially lucrative area because Cycads are all covered by CITES and demand far outstrips supply. 

After some "Cycad rustling threads" we ended up having a huge row on whether it was ethical to buy an area of desert, strip all the saleable cacti and succulents from it, before reneging on the land purchase deal.  

Apparently to a lot of Americans this was both perfectly acceptable and good business practice.

cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2018)

Hi all,


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> ........also looked a bit stringy. All I done was suggested turning down the lights a bit and that some liquid carbon might help also and referenced Walsted about aerial growth and that might be the reason the plants were stretching. Fair comment?


Now you are in the mood for it, try going onto an American cichlid keeping group and suggesting that cycling your filter with ammonia isn't necessarily the best way to start a tank, and that plants may have a beneficial effect on water quality.

I did this and I have to say that the response was universal, and the most positive comments were that I was both _an idiot_ and _a moron_.

cheers Darrel


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## Edvet (15 Feb 2018)




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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

dw1305 said:


> I did this and I have to say that the response was universal, and the most positive comments were that I was both an idiot and a moron.



 If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck Darrel, know what I'm saying. Brilliant. Things are starting to calm down a bit now. Maybe I just caught people getting out of bed. Its times like this when a man starts feeling his limitations. People who obviously have some depth of knowledge and take the time to explain reasoning I can deal with but a lot of these guys are idiots. I wish I could drag everybody over from this forum to give them a proper lecture on not just growing plants but just common courtesy in general. Communication skills wouldn't go a miss either.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Now you are in the mood for it, try going onto an American cichlid keeping group and suggesting that cycling your filter with ammonia isn't necessarily the best way to start a tank, and that plants may have a beneficial effect on water quality.



Certainly not in the mood for it mate, just picking my moment. I find the secret of being a good guest is knowing when to leave


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## foxfish (15 Feb 2018)

I got banned from an American based planed tank forum!
It was because I posted a thread about the twin star (exactly the same wording  as I posted on this forum) but it was taken down before I had a chance to read a single reply!
I sent a pm to a mod & was told that my new thread was not suitable for discussion on the forum. I asked why but got no reply, so I posted it again & next thing I know I am no longer a member!!
I help to manage a forum myself, Deeper Blue, it is a diving related forum & still remains the largest diving forum in the world although the daily posting has gone down from hundreds a day to only 20-30 a day now! During its hay days the forum used over 30 mods + several paid staff to help keep things calm. On occasions we had some huge fights going on but very few members were actually barred from the forum. One of the biggest problems came from certain members posting pictures of dead animals, it seemed that a lot of State side spear fishermen also have a love for hunting on land. Now that is OK if that is your thing but the forum was not about hunting animals & the complaints came in drones. It almost became a war between America & England  ... stressful times... luckily long passed now.


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## Edvet (15 Feb 2018)

`Somehow i think Europe suits me better'


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

foxfish said:


> I got banned from an American based planed tank forum!



I got banned from a US forum because using the same name I use on here on the basis that it had a "racist" theme. It actually came about because back in the day when I played on the playstation every name I could think of had been used up. Someone sent me a youtube link for a song by the Average White Band (who are black) and I thought that'll do Average white bloke, that's me. Stuck with it since or variations of because I can't be bothered thinking of new ones.


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## dw1305 (15 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Average White Band


White and Scots. but definitely a disco/soul band.



cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

Well there ya go. God knows what I was watching. Probably in one of my alcohol and whatever else fuelled nights of late night PC and PS3 gaming. Someone sent me a link for a song because the theme of the song meant something at the time but wasn't taking that much notice. Was maybe a tribute to them by some black guys. Looks like I'm wrong again, hey don't you start Darrel, I came in here for some peace from people telling me I'm a joke. I'm starting to doubt my own existence, I can't even get my own name right today..apparently.





Hahahahahaha that's how I'm feeling.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (15 Feb 2018)

Here's a few brief highlights of how this is going, names have been left out to protect the innocent and I'll probably find out that some of them might even reside here, I certainly know that they are friends of people who reside here.

Firstly, on my suggestion to the op not to go more than 2x excel dosing to play it safe. Which I thought was a reasonable comment to make.

"toxic if overdosed

so is water.

What if I told you a 10X overdose of excel won't harm shrimps, snails or fish?

It's unlikely anybody is going to dump more than 10 capfuls when they meant one.

I'd file this under "making crap up". Have you heard of this happening ever? (that couldn't also be attributed to too much food or something?)

I keep hearing about this but still haven't seen evidence of it ever happening. I don't suppose youhave the supporting documentation for this claim do you? "

Then on the suggestion of using the Duck Weed Index as a way of seeing if you have a lack of nutrients and saying have a read up on it.

"Also this garbage about floaters doing well as a sign that your ferts are fine and it must be a carbon issue. Most floating plants require very little nutrients compared to stem plants by their design. They are much simpler organisms and survive on not only less quantity of ferts but fewer types of ferts because they require less lignin development, being floaters with access to much higher lighting they require less nutrients dedicated to chlorophyll production as well.

For someone who suggested that people need to read up more...you clearly need to do the same and to better understand what it is that you are reading. "

And on the advantages of aerial growth and plants trying to make their way to the surface to get access to co2 

"Next, he claims that plants stretching is plants reaching for atmospheric co2 and not light. Again, complete bunk...because even with low levels of co2...higher lighting will allow plants to grow more compact...and of what he said were the case...then even co2 injected tanks would show node elongation...which they dont. A further proof is that node elongation occurs even in terrestrial plants when they are limited in adequate light...and they have all the co2 they need.

Another example of only half truths being understood"

 So far, going swimmingly well don't you think hahaha I think I'll get my coat. Even got someone here posting a warning saying "please, nobody take any notice of him.

A good healthy debate I reckon. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## zozo (16 Feb 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I got banned from a US forum because using the same name I use



Long time ago in th early days of internet i did use "BombArie" as a nick.. Arie is a common name in my country and short for Hadrianus and Bombarie is just a Dutch word for "Fanfare" someting or someone that makes a lot of noise.. We had a Socker player Arie Boomsma that always braged in the media with a lot of fuss about everything and he became known by the nick "Arie Bombarie".

Anyway, guess how often i had to explain myself at internet communities to people misinterpreting my nickname. People acussing me from beeing a racist and others wanting to befriend with me because they actualy were (White power trash) racist and thought i was also. publicaly and via PM.

I never realy thought of it before that a simple dutch word meaning Fanfare could lead to that.. Mainly people from the US had the most troublre with Bomb - Arie..


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

Just leave the group man! Let them carry on with their circle jerk - laugh about them. 

Anyone who scoffs at my constructive criticisms soon enough want to know why my tank looks mint after I show it to them. Only problem there is you get people that want the magic formula without learning. 

Just let them get on with it


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## dw1305 (16 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> .....Also this garbage about floaters doing well as a sign that your ferts are fine and it must be a carbon issue. Most floating plants require very little nutrients compared to stem plants by their design. They are much simpler organisms and survive on not only less quantity of ferts but fewer types of ferts because they require less lignin development, being floaters with access to much higher lighting they require less nutrients dedicated to chlorophyll production as well. For someone who suggested that people need to read up more...you clearly need to do the same and to better understand what it is that you are reading.


Well, that told you (and me). I shall now go a way and have a re-think.

I liked the "_simpler organisms_", "_fewer types of ferts_" and "_lignin_" bits, particularly as <"lignin"> only contains (a lot of) carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms.

It may be wrong, but it has a certain something, a bit like a really good answer on the <"defend the indefensible" segment at the end of Radio 5's "Fighting Talk">.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

zozo said:


> I never realy thought of it before that a simple dutch word meaning Fanfare could lead to that.. Mainly people from the US had the most troublre with Bomb - Arie..



A friend of mine got banned from the Sony Gaming Network because his online name was Tallybar, they thought it sounded too much like Taliban, even when he explained his name was Barry Tallentire they still weren’t having it and locked his account. He lost all the Trophies and achievements for the games he was playing because they didn't have a system in place to change your online name once you'd picked one.



HiNtZ said:


> Just leave the group man! Let them carry on with their circle jerk - laugh about them.



Yeah I did that last night brother more to stop my phone constantly bleeping and save my battery, I guess you need to know when you to walk away 

Steeeppp learning curve there for me, something I won't be repeating. If I can pull a positive out of a negative experience. I now have greater respect and understanding of cyber bullying and what actually goes on, not that I was bullied but it is stressful. I see newsreaders and politicians on TV complaining about the backlash they get on twitter etc and I also have a teenage daughter, I often think grow a pair and tell them to f@ck off but it's not as simple as that. Especially for a teenager who needs to face these people at school the next day. I was brought up on a council estate in the North, not what you would call a desirable post code  If someone called you out you had to deal with it to save face, that I can deal with.

I think what was worse was out of all the messages that were popping up on my phone I thought I'll sort the wheat from the Chaff and only discuss things with anyone that is going to explain their point and not even furnish idiot teenagers who were just jumping on the band wagon with no substance with a reply, but when I looked on the profiles the people who were being particularly obnoxious were 40 odd year old fathers with university degrees! Do they act and talk to strangers like that in real life? I'm surprised they've survived that long tbh. I guess they don't though, not unless they have a few thousand miles of cable to hide behind.

GIF's, what's that all about? I think people wrongly assume that you have seen all the films that they have and the film it was taken from. Someone would reply with a gif and I didn't even know what it meant, were they agreeing or not? Grow up, that's what I say or maybe I'm getting too old for this kinda crap.

Ironically, other than the slating I got for posting the above comments the main bone of contention seemed to be about LC. I suggested to the OP to use some as it gives them a little bit of carbon in a non co2 tank. When we eventually got down to the bare bones of the matter and people started explaining some numbers were put up about how much carbon is created by by LC and you could get the same amount of co2 by adding some o2 to the tank (the amount from lc was minuscule) which to be fair, I'm sure I've seen Clive do that sum before in here but there was molecular weights and what have you in there so I didn't look into too much as I don't use LC as a carbon source so no need to fill my head with that level of science. I just spot dose algae with it now and again, it works for that and that's all I need to know. Then they got advised to use the LC for its "other benefits" and it does add a small amount of carbon, is that not what I said in the first place? All thing could've been dealt with in a couple of mature sentences without the circus!

Anyway got a gif of a cat clinging to a tree in the wind and a horse dragging someone across the floor tied to it by their ankles, no idea what that means but I'm guessing it wasn't good 

Whatever man, not a good experience but one I'm putting behind me. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Well, that told you (and me). I shall now go a way and have a re-think.
> 
> I liked the "_simpler organisms_", "_fewer types of ferts_" and "_lignin_" bits, particularly as <"lignin"> only contains (a lot of) carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms.
> 
> ...



Where were you when I needed you?


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## dw1305 (16 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Where were you when I needed you?


Listening to the radio.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

dw1305 said:


> Listening to the radio.



I think I'll do that next time, sounds far more relaxing.


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## Edvet (16 Feb 2018)

HiNtZ said:


> t want the magic formula without learning.


Pixiedust isn't it??


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.



That's the spirit! I used to get really annoyed by people online (youtube mainly) in comments sections. But then I realised, they're nobody - I don't need to impress them.

I wouldn't let it put you off using any platform of discussion. You just have to choose the one that has the least amount of Richards.

Anyway, you think that's bad - try a marine forum. It'll make Facebook look tame by comparison.


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

Edvet said:


> Pixiedust isn't it??



You could say that - in my case, copious amounts of trace.

Think I might change the label to read pixie dust because since doubling up, the growth has been magic!


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Edvet said:


> Pixiedust isn't it??



That's what I got when I mentioned Flourish Excel, wasn't you was it ED? 








HiNtZ said:


> I wouldn't let it put you off using any platform of discussion. You just have to choose the one that has the least amount of Richards.



Yeah I won't mate, to be fair I only frequent two forums, this one and a linux one. I very rarely use Facebook and I have to put my hands up, I love extracting the urine out of people on there but they all know me well. They know my sense of humour and to take everything I say with a pinch of salt. Also partial to going on Twitter and calling out politicians, nothing heavy but I like watching them get interviewed. I can then go back later on  when they contradict themselves and remind them on of what they said. If they're going to get paid by the tax payer to tell me how I should live my life then as far as I'm concerned they're fair game. I don't insult anyone though.

I think that's it, you get to know people and know the boundaries. Some people in here although I've never actually met them I've knew for years. You can gauge what's allowed or how they are going to take it. Fair enough when we're dealing with people from different countries some things get lost in translation and took the wrong way.  I woudln't start pulling apart someone with three posts and calling them an idiot for asking a simple question just because I knew the answer, one day I didn't and don't expect to get treated like that.


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> That's what I got when I mentioned Flourish Excel, wasn't you was it ED?
> 
> View attachment 113288
> 
> ...



People get a little too offended these days, it's pathetic. Nothing at all offends me - yes, I have morals and beliefs but if someone goes against them..... not even a twitch from me. I've come to learn that being placid makes the r-sole even angrier. Very funny to watch.

I also watch a lot of Steve Hughes - I highly recommend it.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Haha, yeah I've seen some of his stuff before. Often people get offended on other people's behalf I find. Who knows what's offensive any more, big things going on in UK at the minute about women's rights with it being 100 years since women got the vote. Was having this conversation with my missus who seemed to get deeply offended when I was slagging off certain women who were showing up on TV interviews saying nothing has changed and that they still get treat like sex objects. All for equality and so proud of the women who fought for it back in the day but to be fair some of these women have appeared in mags like FHM with their front kn@ckers out. I don't think you have the right to complain about being treated like a sex object when essentially you have made your living and fame from being a sex object. Don't think its in the same league as suffragettes.

Also see, single women going out telling you that they are wearing something hot because they're looking for some action (I'm down with that) which is all good and well when they get some attention from a dishy bloke then complain that they're getting stared at by a "weirdo" when he's not. You can't set your stall out then complain when someone peruses the goods on offer.

Head and shoulders advert with the gay hairdresser reinforcing the stereotype that all male hairdressers must be gay. Vodafone advert with something you can clip on to your bags so you never lose it and can track where its gone getting chased round an airport by an Asian couple because they've picked up the wrong bag reinforcing the stereotype that Asians are spies who kill people in airports.

Where does it end, probably now before I offend someone  I'm not easily offended if at all, mainly because I don't take myself too serious.


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## kadoxu (16 Feb 2018)

I've experienced something similar in a Goldfish Facebook group. In the end tried my best to pass some of the things I've learned so far, but in the end left them to their own ignorance... not worth my time, and the things people say and ask are painful to say the least...


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Just stay here where its safe mate. You get a more balanced approach to discussion where poeple's opinions are respected whether they are right or wrong. That's how humans interact and we all progress as a species. That's what's wrong with social media, amongst many other things. I'm finding especially with teenagers that they put themselves into groups and its so easy to block each other if people don't agree. Considering its something that was designed as a communication tool it seems that people are losing the art of conversation through it.


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Haha, yeah I've seen some of his stuff before. Often people get offended on other people's behalf I find. Who knows what's offensive any more, big things going on in UK at the minute about women's rights with it being 100 years since women got the vote. Was having this conversation with my missus who seemed to get deeply offended when I was slagging off certain women who were showing up on TV interviews saying nothing has changed and that they still get treat like sex objects. All for equality and so proud of the women who fought for it back in the day but to be fair some of these women have appeared in mags like FHM with their front kn@ckers out. I don't think you have the right to complain about being treated like a sex object when essentially you have made your living and fame from being a sex object. Don't think its in the same league as suffragettes.
> 
> Also see, single women going out telling you that they are wearing something hot because they're looking for some action (I'm down with that) which is all good and well when they get some attention from a dishy bloke then complain that they're getting stared at by a "weirdo" when he's not. You can't set your stall out then complain when someone peruses the goods on offer.
> 
> ...



100% with you on that mate. Women (in general), celebrities, virtue signalers, reality anything, social media.... I have nothing to do with it. Nice.Simple.Life

I picked up on those ads you mentioned too - like the vanish carpet cleaning ad, just women. Then there's the kinder choco balls ad - just women. Yeah, it bothers me too but only because I noticed and it made me have to think about "why?". Is it on purpose? Coincidence? What was rejected previously before the final cut? I don't like to have to analyse things and pose questions because it's time consuming and ultimately, vacuous nonsense not worth thinking about anyway (but I still do)  

It's not about not taking yourself too serious - there are times in life where you need to think about serious issues. Facebook dregs and mouth breathers aren't one of those times though


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Life's complicated enough without looking for problems that might offend you. The "weirdo" I mentioned earlier. Often said to my single lady friend that he might be the one for her, might be a really lovely fella for all she knows but because he's not good looking he's a weirdo. Go figure. More stereo typing that seems acceptable. Poor guys sat there thinking, she looks hot I wonder if I stand a chance (which I guess was the desired affect she was looking for) not realising he's making her life uncomfortable. I've even had her say "he's getting it tonight whether he likes it or not"  Obviously only joking and maybe I hang out with the wrong kind of people but if I was to say that! I've even had her admit that she uses me as "bait" to get the conversation started.
Considering back in the day it was frowned upon for women to to even be in pubs, I think we can all agree things have moved on an awful lot. Obviously the gender pay gap needs dealt with and rightly so but I think things are pretty evenly balanced these days. In my world anyway, it probably goes on in other sectors of life that I'm not aware of.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

I'll complicate this even further, as if I possibly could. BBC Radio Newsbeat advertised a job on Twitter for a non white black or ethnic journalist position. I messaged them saying I was all for positive steps when it comes to diversity in the workplace but did they not think that advertising a job as not available to white people was a bit discriminatory. They pointed out the nature of position was reporting on black and ethnic communities so it wouldn't be suited to a white person. I pointed out that even white people live inside ethnic communities  and know about it as much as anyone else. By their reasoning what would Tim Westwood a white 60 year old DJ they employ know about hip hop.

I'm all for diversity but discrimination is discrimination even when they are trying to be positive. Jobs should be available to everyone regardless and based on merit for the best candidate.


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## Nelson (16 Feb 2018)

What facebook group ?.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Not sure mate Edited*


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Just letting you know I've edited my last post. No point naming and shaming the group in a public forum. There seemed to be a lot of ok people in there who did know their stuff.


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## Nelson (16 Feb 2018)

Just wanted to find it so I could slag you off .
Too many groups to search though .


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## John S (16 Feb 2018)

If Clive did Facebook…. That would probably be the best Facebook group in the world


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

Nelson said:


> Just wanted to find it so I could slag you off .
> Too many groups to search though .


Fill your boots mates. I can handle it. 

I'm sort of wishing I didn't leave now. It's killing me wondering what else is being said.  Not to worry, on reflection I think what I stumbled into was a crusade against liquid carbon. I advised someone to use it and someone was being a blahblahblahblah about it but not really saying why just banging daft emojis on. I told him to stop doing it and if he had anything to say on the subject to do it and discuss it rather than act like an idiot. This guy went away and came back with some big guns who in all fairness seemed to know their onions. I seen that because he posted saying this is the post I was referring to and tagged someone else in, from then on in it was open season on everything I'd said. 
Now I'm not going to even pretend I'm  some sort of leading authority on the subject, the only comments I made were aerial growth and floating plants as well as LC giving a source of carbon. I felt pretty confident making them suggestions based on firstly I got taught them by people whose opinions I respect namely one Darrel amongst others and have tried and tested the method to good effect and the aerial growth part I have heard many times in here and also read up on it in the Walsted book ecology of the planted tank. So I was giving an answer to the best of my knowledge. Fair enough, I have a basic understanding of LC, enough to get by.

But to have essentially what appeared to be scientists and very experienced plant keepers accusing me of trying to pedal nonsense, not knowing what I'm talking about and basically talking rubbish and even warning people to ignore me I thought was a bit heavy. 

Towards the end, a couple of people came in in my defence and said look You guys don't like LC but it has advantages in some people's tanks which is why I suspect there was a group of very experienced people in the who have decided to have a crusade against LC. Then I pop in here and here Clive recommending LC to someone and the benefits of the extra carbon 

I think I just walked in to someone else's fight. If nothing else I did learn something about LC and how little carbon it adds to a tank so not a total loss 

I stand by my other comments though, I didn't have the scientific knowledge to take these guys on and kept getting side tracked by idiots posting nonsense just to get my back up but these methods have worked for me, I understand why they work and that's all I need to know. 

Just tried to pass that info on and got a bloody good rodgering for it. 


Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## AverageWhiteBloke (16 Feb 2018)

My bums still sore if I'm honest. 

Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

John S said:


> If Clive did Facebook…. That would probably be the best Facebook group in the world



I've seen some hilarious reactions to Clive's advice from people who are a bit touchy and new to the scene. They honestly think he's ripping them a new one when the reality is, everything he says is done so with the best possible intentions and always with a "cheers" at the end. Some people are just touchy and think everyone is out to condescend to them.


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## HiNtZ (16 Feb 2018)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I'll complicate this even further, as if I possibly could. BBC Radio Newsbeat advertised a job on Twitter for a non white black or ethnic journalist position. I messaged them saying I was all for positive steps when it comes to diversity in the workplace but did they not think that advertising a job as not available to white people was a bit discriminatory. They pointed out the nature of position was reporting on black and ethnic communities so it wouldn't be suited to a white person. I pointed out that even white people live inside ethnic communities  and know about it as much as anyone else. By their reasoning what would Tim Westwood a white 60 year old DJ they employ know about hip hop.
> 
> I'm all for diversity but discrimination is discrimination even when they are trying to be positive. Jobs should be available to everyone regardless and based on merit for the best candidate.
> 
> View attachment 113291



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5395107/Driver-turned-UK-job-British.html

You literally couldn't write it!


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