# Filter(s) for three 40L tanks



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Hey guys,

I'm new to the forum, but not to the hobby, even though I've been a way for a bit and recently started things up again. Right now, I only have two 40L nano tanks, but I will soon be getting a RIO 180, and a third 40L. Now, my question is this. The nano tanks will be moving to another stand, where I want to create a three-in-a-row kind of look. My plan was to hook up my Eheim 250T eXperience filter, split the in- and outflow three ways, and put an inline CO2-diffusor on the outflow, just before I split them to the three tanks. This should lead to identical temperatures, CO2-levels and flow rates. 
However, I feel that the capacity of the 250T is just a bit too low (~700 L/h), but I don't want to have to invest in a bigger thermofilter. So, what I was thinking, was adding another external filter to the mix, a regular, non-thermo one (Eheim Classic 250), and splitting the in- and outflows just before they reach or leave the filters, so again the water distribution should be even. This way, I don't have to add another in- and outflow to the tanks (nor a flow pump), and keep everything neat and tidy. 
My question is this: will the thermofilter still be able to keep up the temperature, or will the regular filter interfer with the thermofunction of the 250T? I think it should be fine, since the thermofilter should simply react to the temperature of the water passing through it and heat it accordingly, but I just wanted to double check.

Thanks for the input!


----------



## Mr. Teapot (14 Apr 2014)

It would be great to see how you've worked out the plumbing on a set-up like this - how are you going to balance the flow into each tank if you get an even slightly blocked intake on one of the three tanks? Would it be easier to keep the flow/filteration separate and just split the CO2 using something like this?

I'd love to see a triptic set-up  using slightly different environments - lower temp, low-tech hill stream with rocks, sand and lots of moss, high-tech leafy pond and then a swampy lagoon. Each could have its own CO2, lighting and water parameters set to the species you want to keep.


----------



## Edvet (14 Apr 2014)

Won't work with a canister filter. You can't balance the tanks in and out.  Could work if you had overflows and a sump.


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

I just made a couple of drawings to clarify what I'm attempting. The first one is the original plan, with one filter, the second one, I've added the extra filter. Note that I've only drrawn the outflow part of the filters and the plumbing, the inflow-part would be identical though, minus the CO2-diffusor. And I agree with what you are saying regarding the different biotopes, however, I want to create a three in a row look, i.e., three seperate scapes that when viewed side-by-side give the impression of one continual scape, if that makes any sense at all. So I actually want identical temps, flows and CO2. I am however already planning three more nano tanks (good grief, I had forgotten how addictive this hobby is!), and those will be completely different one from the other, well, two will be rather similar due to where they will be placed (either side of my sofa, so in order to keep things symmetrical, they will be scaped quite identical, to one another at least. Anyways, going way off topic now, on with the pics.

With the one filter, I have this plumbing setup in mind:






With the second filter, the setup would look something like this:





[DOUBLEPOST=1397471696][/DOUBLEPOST]





Edvet said:


> Won't work with a canister filter. You can't balance the tanks in and out.  Could work if you had overflows and a sump.



Please take a look at my pics; with my basic knowledge of (household) plumbing and physics, this setup should balance the flow evenly over the three tanks, that's why I opted for having the flow first split into two paths, so I then can have the water come from two ways when branching off to the three tanks. I really think/ thought this would lead to a 33% split of flow each way. Might have to do a test-run to confirm though.
Or do you mean it wouldn't work with a second filter added to the mix?


----------



## Mr. Teapot (14 Apr 2014)

I'd love this to work but I think Edvet is right. Just a quick google search for "connecting multiple tanks" without overflows/drilling into a sump is a flood waiting to happen. Have a look at this thread. 

I'd try out your plumbing outside first, before you set up your final tanks.


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Ah, I see the problem now, stupid me!  However, thinking about it for a minute; if I were to fit all three tanks with a (small; they are only 40L a piece) overflow pipe, and let this pipe run back into the inflow part of the filter, I could make sure the tanks would never overflow, right? This should also insure that the water levels remain identical in all three tanks, and should not harm the filter(s), since the total water volume would not change. Correct? 
Which leaves me with the original question (parallel coupling two external filters), and a new one; since these are 40L nano tanks, drilling them would not be an option, since I want the water levels to be relatively high (let's say 10 mm. under the edge); would a small half moon type overflow be sufficient? By this I mean cutting out a small half moon shape out of the back panel of the tank (let's say 20 mm. wide, and 10 mm. high), add some 20 mm. glass or acrylic overflow whatyamacallemthingies to that, add tubing and couple those tubes back into the inflow of the filter(s). Am I making any sense at all with this?


----------



## EnderUK (14 Apr 2014)

There was a book on aquatic water ways where this guy basically connected his tanks with large tubes so the fish could go from tank to tank. Crazy guy had them going all over his room. He did mention that it had gone wrong from time to time and that a siphon effect sometimes occured sucking a tank dry and overflowing another tank. If those thanks are setup in parallel then all the flow is going to follow the easist path unless you put a flow devider in there and I don't think you'll pick one up cheap. If the they're in series you'll probably run into the siphon effect at some point down the line.

The more complicated you make the circuit the more loss of flow you'll get from pipe resitrctions, I guess you could probably have a couple of booster pumps inbetween the tanks but then you might as well just get a new filter.


----------



## Claire (14 Apr 2014)

If you have an overflow plumbed into the inflow of the filter then the filter is going to constantly draw air. You could have an overflow to a bucket which would let you see if there is an issue, but I can only think that just a leaf sticking to an inlet on one tank would start it to overflow and you start losing water from the others… To be honest if it were me, I would just be looking to pick up 3 cheap second hand externals like the eheim 2213 and doing them individually - less hassle and heartache in the long run!


----------



## Edvet (14 Apr 2014)

It. Wil. Not. Work.


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Claire said:


> If you have an overflow plumbed into the inflow of the filter then the filter is going to constantly draw air. You could have an overflow to a bucket which would let you see if there is an issue, but I can only think that just a leaf sticking to an inlet on one tank would start it to overflow and you start losing water from the others… To be honest if it were me, I would just be looking to pick up 3 cheap second hand externals like the eheim 2213 and doing them individually - less hassle and heartache in the long run!



Good point about the air sucking. So a definite no on that one as well. Crud. The three externals would work without a problem, but I don't want to see a heater in my tanks, and the undergravel heating does not appeal (plus, still a electrical wire in the tank), so it would have to be three external thermos in that case, and that's gonna break the bank, same with inline heating.  Splitting the CO2 into three inline diffusors should not be too much of a problem nor a financial burden with some medical IV drips, it's just the heating that's the issue.
Really thought I had it cracked with the small overflows into the intake. Dammit...


----------



## Mr. Teapot (14 Apr 2014)

Vinkenoog1977 said:


> Am I making any sense at all with this



Nope. Just my quick research would suggest keep it simple. Three separate tanks or three drilled/overflowed tanks into a common sump.

I was beaten to it!


----------



## Claire (14 Apr 2014)

Either inline heaters (keep an eye on ebay or on here for people selling them) or as Teapot said put a common sump underneath with 3 pumps back to each tank. Then none will ever run dry as even if its pump stops working then it will only drain as low as its overflow, and it won't ever overflow as long as the overflow system is sufficient to take plenty of water. Grab a cheap tank off of ebay (doesn't need to look nice or be huge) and stick it in the cabinet as your sump, and chinese pumps are fine


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Claire said:


> Either inline heaters (keep an eye on ebay or on here for people selling them) or as Teapot said put a common sump underneath with 3 pumps back to each tank. Then none will ever run dry as even if its pump stops working then it will only drain as low as its overflow, and it won't ever overflow as long as the overflow system is sufficient to take plenty of water. Grab a cheap tank off of ebay (doesn't need to look nice or be huge) and stick it in the cabinet as your sump, and chinese pumps are fine


I think this is going to have to be it then. I had one 60 cm. cabinet designated as the equipment cabinet, so I should be able to fit a large enough tank/ sump in there to do the trick. Will have to do some digging on this site to figure out how to build a sump and have it heat as well, plus how to then inject CO2 inline. Anyone have a quick link to a tutorial, am a complete nooby as far as sumps go. 

Cheers for all the help guys, even though it was kind of disappointing, much appreciated!


----------



## Claire (14 Apr 2014)

Heating is easy enough - just put an internal heater or two in the sump. Never gonna see it so doesn't matter how it looks  Generally with sumps it's in compartments where the water can overflow from one area to the next, like the plant displays in pet shops. Then you just put filter media in each compartment and the pumps in the last compartment.


----------



## Edvet (14 Apr 2014)

No need for something fancy with 3x 40 lit, Just put a few filterfoam dividers in the middle, outflows go to one side, pumps are on the other side. Take out one foamdivider per week and rinse it. easy peasy


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Awesome guys, cheers for that! Sounds like a great project for coming winter, for now I'll concentrate on getting the 180 just the way I want it, and leave the 40s running with the internal filters for now. Back to the drawing board and getting some extra info first.

Just one more question, regarding the overflow/ outflow; could I suffice with what I previously described; a half moon shape overflow cut out of the top of the backpanel of the tank, say 20 mm. across and 10 mm. tall or is that simply not large enough to take the amount of water needed for a decent flow?.The tanks are 33 x 33 x 38 cm. (l x w x h). Plus, the size of the sump, what should I be thinking, taking into account the need for some extra capacity to avoid floods. Are we talking 40 L, 60 L, more, less?

Thanks again for all the info!


----------



## Edvet (14 Apr 2014)

If you drill a hole in the back of the tanks you only will need a few liter reserve to cope with a power out. So with 3x 40 liter a 60 lit sump used to 2/3 height should be save. If you want have a look at http://www.wildkamp.nl/VDL-pvc-doorvoer-met-klemmoer-voor-witlofteelt-20-mm-_pr_718920 for an easy attachment of a pvc pipe, no glue needed for these., Paint the backside black (or even put black foam before  it if you want to make it safe for shrimp/little fish )and you will barely notice these.


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Edvet said:


> If you drill a hole in the back of the tanks you only will need a few liter reserve to cope with a power out. So with 3x 40 liter a 60 lit sump used to 2/3 height should be save. If you want have a look at http://www.wildkamp.nl/VDL-pvc-doorvoer-met-klemmoer-voor-witlofteelt-20-mm-_pr_718920 for an easy attachment of a pvc pipe, no glue needed for these., Paint the backside black (or even put black foam before  it if you want to make it safe for shrimp/little fish )and you will barely notice these.


Awesome, thanks for that! So something like this (the two openings on the far right), two 20 mm. holes drilled, add the "PVC doorvoer", and then pipe as in this picture, that should do the trick?


----------



## Edvet (14 Apr 2014)

Yup, except for a 40 liter tank you wont need three You'll need 400 lit/hour pumped, that will drain through one easily


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

No, that's why I said the two on the far right, one in, one out should indeed be more than plenty.  And I just remembered seeing that Dennerle do some nice acrylic lily pipe attachments for their hangon filter for the scapers tank, 20 mm. fittings, should be able to adapt these a bit with some bent acrypic piping, and make the outflow look perfect, and for the inflow I'll bend some more acrylic pipe 20 mm., and use some foam to protect this fish, even though, is that even necessary? They would have do some major aquatic acrobatics to get in there, I should think. Yeah, really starting to dig this whole sump idea, awesome!
http://www.aquaplantsonline.nl/p/66...en/dennerle-scapers-flow-lily-pipe/?limit=100


----------



## EnderUK (14 Apr 2014)

If you youtube DIY Joey on youtube he goes through stuff like over flow and drilling through glass.


----------



## Vinkenoog1977 (14 Apr 2014)

Yeah, I've seen his vids, and I think I've got things figured out now, even though I think I might be overdoing it with filtermedia in the sump, but we shall see what I'll end up doing. I'll have the drilling done bu the pros though, they are pretty close to where I live, and they will build the aquarium used for the sump (standard sizes won't fit in the cabinet unfortunately), so might as well have them do it, saves me buying drills, and should save me some nerves. 
So I think I'm pretty much all set now, but like I said, this will be a winter project, will do a journal on it when the time comes. First, on to the Rio 180, which I should be able to get started with in about a month, might do a journal on that one as well.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Apr 2014)

If you want to simplify it even more, dependent on required temp, 3 hang on filters and a reptile Matt under the tanks will  work for 21c ish.... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

