# Beginner



## confusedman (30 Jan 2021)

Hello everyone

I have never owned fish before. and this is my very first thread in UKAPS.
I feel a bit overwhelmed cause everyone seems to be very technical so please be patient with me.
We bought a small tank, a Aquael Leddy 60

We have a piece of drift wood, fourf little rocks and gravel
Plants: 1 Anubias Barteri, 1 Hemiographis Colorata, 1 Ophiopogon Japonica Pussilus and 3 Anacharis
Fish: 1 Angel fish, 1 Platty, 1 Swordfish, 1 Albino Corydora, 2 Electric Blue Ram, 1 Silver Molly, 1 Black Molly, 1 Dalmatian Molly, 3 cardinal Tetra, 1 Honey Gourami and 3 male Guppy

Tank has been running from Monday, temperature set to 26 degrees. Plants introduced on Thursday. Fish were placed yesterday.

Any general advice welcome.

Specific questions

1- can we introduce a few shrimps, if yes, what type and how many?
2- can we introduce  snails, if yes, what type and how many?
3- are the number of fish we have suitable for the size of the tank? could we add more?

Thank you in advance for your help!!


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## CalRed (30 Jan 2021)

Hi confusedman, snails are a good option for beginners in any tank as part of a clean up crew. I've had a nerite for a few years now and he does a good job of keeping the glass clean. Personally, I wouldn't introduce shrimp until I'd become a bit more used to how my water behaves in my tank. 

As far as stocking goes, i'm no expert but it does seem quite heavily stocked for the size of tank you have. 
A good starting point is https://aqadvisor.com/
If you put your tank dimensions in and select your filter or an equivalent one with the same turnover ie how many lph it will give you a capacity for how many fish you can have safely in the tank. You can then add the species and quantity of fish you want to introduce and it will tell you when you're getting close to maximum capacity for your tank.
The one thing you want to avoid in any fish tank is ammonia spikes and with a lot of fish in a small tank, it won't take long for waste to build up and cause these ammonia spikes. Changing water and using a water conditioner such as Seachem Prime will remove waste products with every change. 

One thing that does slightly concern me is you're tank has been running from monday and you've already got a large volume of fish in there. Have you cycled your tank with some old filter media?


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## GHNelson (30 Jan 2021)

Hi 
Welcome to the UKaps!
Hemiographis Colorata,  Ophiopogon Japonica Pussilus.
The above plants are not aquarium suitable....they will foul your water!
Remove them asap and put them in plant pots.
Have a look at this thread below!








						Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!
					

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new,....it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum.  1. Improves water...



					www.ukaps.org


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## Kevin Eades (30 Jan 2021)

Hello please return the angel fish to the store you bought it from. The tank is too small for it and they shouldn't really be kept alone. I would have expected any fish store to have advised against it. In terms of time the tank has been running. This is not long enough for the filter to be mature. You are risking fish loss if you are not adding beneficial bacteria. Again I would have expected the fish store to have advised against adding fish so early. Its frustrating you haven't been given better advise as its is very simple stuff and common mistakes with new fish keepers. If you keep your angel fish you will need at least a 200l aquarium as they grow very quickly. Also take the advise above on the plants.

Other than that welcome to the forum. I hope fish keeping becomes a hobby you love as it has for me over many years


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## Tim Harrison (30 Jan 2021)

Welcome, it's good to have you with us at the beginning of your planted tank adventures 

It's a nice looking set up, but I'd definitely advise you to do some reading, it'll help you continue your journey in the right direction. There are plenty of good beginners aquarium guides, for instance The Complete Aquarium Encyclopedia of Tropical Freshwater Fish was my bible growing up, it's a bit dated but still one of the best books on the subject I've ever read. And George's book might be a good option if you want to start aquascaping.

It's a shame, but very few fish stores can be relied upon to offer good advice. Many of the folk running them aren't very well informed themselves and will nearly always put their bottom line above animal welfare etc. For instance selling plants that are not aquatic and unsuitable fish.

But you've found the right place to learn; there is a lot of information and help to be had on UKAPS. Perhaps start by looking at the Tutorials page and trying to get to grips with some of the information there


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## John q (30 Jan 2021)

Hi confusedman.
First things first don't panic.

As others have suggested you definitely need to to start doing some research regards ideal tank sizes, water conditions, stocking levels  and group numbers for the various types of fish you have in there.
The angelfish is definitely going to have to go back at some point and I'd be surprised if the rams make it to Easter, they're quite sensitive fish at the best of times and really shouldn't be added to immature tanks.

For now whilst you read up and gather your thoughts you need to start doing water changes, I'd suggest about 30% to 40% every other day for now and treat with seachem prime.

Don't forget ~ Don't panic.

Cheers.


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## shangman (30 Jan 2021)

Welcome confusedman, it's nice to meet you, I'm a fellow Londoner!

Sadly I think that you have missed some fundamental concepts which are extremely important in fish keeping, and are what makes an aquarium a liveable place for fish. Your LFS should have helped you with this before you bought all those fish, so it's understandable that you wouldn't realise. If you can, you should make some big changes for the sake of those beautiful fish.

The first thing you need to know about is cycling/maturation. This is a process which takes a month or longer, where you grow a colony of beneficial bacteria in your aquarium. These bacteria digest waste (also called ammonia and nitrite), and so keep the water from being toxic for your fish to live. You have not gone through this process, so your fish are all in danger of suffering and even dying. If you don't want to return all your fish, and want to keep them safe, you should do 30 - 50% water changes (using your tap water and dechlorinater) ideally every day, or every other day for the next month. If you know anyone IRL with an aquarium, ask them for some filter media from their aquarium, this will help grow your essential colony of bacteria.

The second thing is that you must research every fish before you buy it, my favourite website for this is https://seriouslyfish.com/, and AQ Advisor . Many of the fish you have already bought are too big, or will grow too big for your tank. Several of these species also need to live in larger groups, you shouldn't just keep one. Different fish need different water parameters (in London we have hard water), which makes some better suited for your water supply than others. You should return the angelfish, the corydora, the rams and the tetras if you can, as all of these species are not right for your tank - they are difficult for beginners with particular needs, and also need a larger tank. The guppies and mollys might be hardy enough fish to survive the cycling process, they are happy in hard London water.

The third thing which you have started (which is great), is that a planted tank is a stable, beautiful tank that both you and your fish will love. The two species in the right of your tank are not actually water plants, they should be taken out, but the other two are great and should thrive. You should look at ordering some new plants from a website like aquarium gardens - Aquarium Plants from Aquarium Gardens UK | Live Aquatic Tropical Tank Plants. I suggest that you look at floating plants, epiphytes (like your anubias) which don't need soil, and cryptocorynes, which like our hard London water. If you keep some of the fish you have, adding lots of plants will help them a lot by keeping the water cleaner, and providing a nice habitat for them. The Soil Substrate or Dirted Planted Tank - A How to Guide How to plant a low-maintenance Nature Aquarium

If I were you I would ideally look at returning all the fish (or as many as possible), so that I could cycle the tank, add and grow new plants, and get it really balanced and beautiful. During this time of waiting I would research the fish I wanted a lot more, really work out what few species you love which are not too big, and like London tapwater, and get these once your tank has matured. For example, you could definitely keep some lovely cherry shrimps and snails, as well as one or two of the species of fish you have now in slightly larger numbers. I live in SE London, I'm happy to give you some filter media & floating plants to help if you are close and wanted to pick them up.

I know this may feel very overwhelming, as there's lots to learn. I personally visited the forum for the first time last year after accidentally killing my first fish and not understanding why, but now my tank is well balanced, and my fish are happy and breeding. It's definitely worth doing more reading and changing it up, even though it seems like a lot of effort it's worth it!


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## confusedman (30 Jan 2021)

Wow, thanks for all of that. I am feeling already guilty.
I purposely avoided Pets at Home because for the rest of the animals they are famous for not having a clue. So I went to my local Aquatic shop and I asked them what to do and I followed their instructions. They told me I could get up to 30 fish and I decided to be cautious and have only 16. I bought all of them in one go but even thought they mention the Angel might outgrow the tank in 3 years they didn't say anything about keeping any of the fish in pairs/groups.
Regarding the plants, I both the two wrong ones in quite a big Aquatic shop in North London (again it wasn't a "pet shop" but a Aquatics only shop).
Ill se what I can do. Ill keep reading.

Thanks again


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## CalRed (30 Jan 2021)

Nothing to feel guilty about whatsoever, to be honest the blame lies with the aquatic shop you visited. 
If you can't return the fish for whatever reason, google 'fish in cycle'. Its a method of cycling that will help you mature your tank while having fish in there. I've never tried the method myself but it is an option. As shangman mentioned earlier though, I would be looking to return at least some of the larger growing/less suitable fish back to the store. 
If there's anything you need help with along the way, you'll find plenty of people here willing to help.


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## shangman (30 Jan 2021)

100% agree with CalRe, you did your best and followed advice you thought would be right, and it should have been! It isn't your fault - it is the shop, who did nothing to help you at all. This is the downside of the aquarium hobby - not every shop is ethical enough to give you good advice. Luckily, we are all here to help 

That shop might be following the rule of 1cm of fish per cm of tank (so they said you could have 30 fish, that would mean 30 2cm fish), but that is quite an outdated way of thinking about it now, there is now a lot of information on the internet about many different species and their particular needs, we can work out a better way of stocking our aquariums. On the other hand, they could just be charlatans trying to sell you as many fish as possible!! When you buy fish for your aquarium, it's best to buy a few at a time, 1 species at a time so your tank doens't get overwhelmed. Totally weird that they sell non-aquarium plants to go in tanks.

Let us know any more questions that pop up


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## Tim Harrison (30 Jan 2021)

confusedman said:


> I purposely avoided Pets at Home because for the rest of the animals they are famous for not having a clue.


That's fairly ironic, my local P@H shop is very strict about animal welfare, they require customers to register and run a gauntlet of questions. But most couldn't give a monkey's


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## sparkyweasel (30 Jan 2021)

Welcome! 
It's so infuriating when people get bad advice from shops.   You certainly should NOT feel guilty.
You've got lots of good advice above, and a kind offer from @shangman, if you can take him up on it, - a bit of matured filter medium would get your filter off to a flying start and floating plants are a great help too.
The more partial water changes you can do the better. Remember to treat the new water with tapwater conditioner. The one called Seachem Prime also neutralises ammonia which is good.
Don't panic, you will get it sorted out and we will help you.


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## shangman (30 Jan 2021)

Confusedman picked up some filter media and a few plants from me earlier, and very kindly gave me a bottle of wine for it 

Hopefully it'll make a good difference!


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## GHNelson (30 Jan 2021)

Hello Shangman
Excellent stuff, we appreciate the input and you personally trying to rectify a bad situation!
Cheers
hoggie


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## John q (30 Jan 2021)

@shangman good to see there's still some decent folk around. 👏


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## Paul Kettless (30 Jan 2021)

Welcome,

This is unfortunately seen far to often in this hobby, and as many have said before this is not your fault.  The shop have given you very bad advice and you followed it by putting your trust in them. Stick with your posts on this site, a huge wealth of knowledge and guidance here from all different levels of understanding.


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## confusedman (30 Jan 2021)

shangman said:


> Confusedman picked up some filter media and a few plants from me earlier, and very kindly gave me a bottle of wine for it
> 
> Hopefully it'll make a good difference!


The wine was nothing, I was so relieved that we could do something to improve the environment. Thank you for the advice and the filter media and plants!!


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## alto (31 Jan 2021)

Well done @shangman and @confusedman 

Even with some cycled filter media, I’d still try to do daily 25% water changes ... or 50% alternate day water changes, or 25% alternate day water changes, or 30% third day water changes ... in other words, lots of clean water means healthy fish 
And it’s much easier to change water than to treat sick fish, and you’ve a good number of fairly big fish in there - really the shop should be charged! 

You can also feed fish alternate days (ignore the pathetic begging)
Feed only very small amounts of food - much less than you think the fish will need (most aquarium fish are overfed) - with those types of fish, food should be all gone in ~10sec (NOT a minute)
Fish won’t get sick or die from short rations for several weeks, and you can gradually move to more frequent feedings (most fish benefit more from twice daily small amounts than a single larger feed)

It will be somewhat of a challenge to ensure sufficient food for that single Corydoras but wait until the aquarium has settled in (at least 2-3 weeks) before feeding bottom foods such as catfish pellets (which are usually meant for a group of Corydoras not a single fish) 
Of course most of your other fish will want to help eat that wonderful catfish pellet, dropping the pellet in when the tank is well dark (and room has been dark for at least 30min) should help ensure your Corydoras gets enough food - you can just feed this twice a week, a healthy Cory will constantly scour the bottom for food

Unfortunately those pebbles will allow food to sift through to the glass bottom, so you’ll need to use a decent siphon tube to clean out food and fish waste 
There are loads of videos on various ways to do this, but Cory and the Aquarium Co-op team have some skills 
(and that’s probably much like the gunk you’ll see as your aquarium settles in)


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## alto (31 Jan 2021)

confusedman said:


> Fish: 1 Angel fish, 1 Platty, 1 Swordfish, 1 Albino Corydora, 2 Electric Blue Ram, 1 Silver Molly, 1 Black Molly, 1 Dalmatian Molly, 3 cardinal Tetra, 1 Honey Gourami and 3 male Guppy


Angel fish - return when possible

Swordfish - return when possible, he should get quite large for this tank (you could keep a small group of fancy linebred swords which remain much smaller but these are also quite delicate expensive fish)

Molly - different colour variants may have quite different breeding (many domestic lines of molly, sword, platy are hybridized to varying degrees) so size can be more variable AND they can be quite successful breeders so you’ll soon have multiple generations (if you’ve both sexes). Depending on your particular fish, they may easily grow 4-6inches, and they are largebodied (unlike many tetras) ... again I’d likely return these eventually
The blacks often remain smaller and are slower growing

Guppy- these are perfect for a 60cm (54 litre aquarium) and you could have a good sized group, eg, 10-12 boys
(if you add girls, then you should keep 2-3 females per male, and will soon be overrun with millions of guppies)

Tetras - these should be kept in groups of at least 10-12 (some species are happy intermixing but most do best as species groups)

Corydoras - these are usually happy in single species groups of 6-8, they vary somewhat in size (length and depth) and preferred temperature, water parameters etc so check out particular species you’re interested in
(they prefer a group of similar looking fish if you want to do more than 1 species)

Honey gourami - should do very well in this tank size but again they’d like some company (I’d keep at least 1M 2F, note that “red robin” variant is a hybrid that grows larger and is often more aggressive)

(all these fish notes are just my opinion! read them - or not - and then make your own choices)

It’s quite usual for first time fishkeepers to end up with a tank of “singles” and most fish manage just fine  - just check for compatibility and be prepared to isolate (and rehome) fish that aren't doing well
Dealing with a shop that accepts returning fish, makes it much easier to explore the hobby

The most important thing is that you have fun and enjoy your new hobby


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## sparkyweasel (1 Feb 2021)

alto said:


> Feed only very small amounts of food - much less than you think the fish will need (most aquarium fish are overfed)


That's a good point @alto.
@confusedman ; it's very different to feeding people, or dogs, cats etc. A large part of what we eat is fuel to keep our body temperature constant. A fish's body temp is controlled by its environment so it doesn't need nearly as much food. Also, most of what we eat is largely water, whereas most fishfood is dried, so a flake contains much more nutrition than a piece of, say, cabbage of the same size.
That's me just trying to emphasise, - VERY small amounts of food are plenty. It can be hard to get your head around this. 
I know there's a lot to take in at first, but it will all come together. 
Don't get down-hearted. Please keep us updated with developments, good or bad.
You're on the way to a nice tank there, with the way you've arranged the wood, _Anubias _and _Anacharis_.


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## confusedman (1 Feb 2021)

Good afternoon everyone

Again thank you for your previous answers

Quick question
If I do a 30% to 50% water change, how do I get the new water to a decent temperature before putting it in?. I guess if I do a 10% change it won't affect drastically the general temperature but with a 50% Im worried about killing them.
I guess I could buy a new termomether for the bucket. If that is the case, any thermometer you advise?
I have bought the Seachem Prime that will be used from tomorrow and I have bought some PH testing stripes (that I don't know how to use) but I hope they will help to keep track of the situation in the tank
Please advice
Thank you


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## Kezzab (1 Feb 2021)

Just mix water from your hot and cold tap in a bucket, add dechlorinator, then siphon in.

This may not be recommended, but I judge the temperature by hand. I'm always within a couple of degrees. Changes in temperature of that size have never caused an issue.

If you are nervous, Just do.more frequent smaller changes. Or get a thermometer (the digital ones that also measure TDS are handy and only about 10 quid. TDS is something not to worry about right now but could be handy in future.)


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## Hufsa (1 Feb 2021)

You could have a thermometer for the bucket, or you could do like I do and stick your hand in the tank to feel the temp, and then stick it in the change water and compare. You want it to be a close match but a few degrees off wont hurt them. I regularly do large (75%) water changes with water up to around 4 degrees lower than the tank.
If youre using tapwater you can match the temperature coming out of the tap before you fill the bucket all the way. Sometimes youll want to adjust a little bit along the way.
If youre buying a thermometer specifically for the bucket I would go with an old fashioned non digital one. They seem to pick up on the temperature the fastest.
For your tank I would suggest a digital thermometer for accuracy.

Seachem Prime is good, dose according to the bottle instructions 

PH test is alright, but in the critical startup phase I would prefer to have liquid tests for ammonia (NH3/NH4) and nitrite (NO2). Take note of the -i- in nitrite. Nitr-A-te is not toxic in the same way as nitrite. Liquid tests are more accurate than strips.
If youre on a budget you can just assume that your water will have either ammonia or nitrite and change water anyway, but at some point you will want to know if the tank has "cycled" and is stable, so that you can ramp down your water change schedule. For this the test kits come in handy imo.

I see Kezzab has beaten me to it but I will post anyway to supplement 🙂


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## Raws69 (1 Feb 2021)

I’d suggest thermometer, especially if new to the hobby as some fish etc can be sensitive to temp changed.  Cheap digital ones off Amazon, I use this one and it adjusts almost instantly.


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## dw1305 (1 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


Raws69 said:


> I’d suggest thermometer


I like <"old fashioned spirit filled thermometers">, they don't have any moving bits or a battery.

cheers Darrel


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## aquascape1987 (1 Feb 2021)

Hufsa said:


> PH test is alright, but in the critical startup phase I would prefer to have liquid tests for ammonia (NH3/NH4) and nitrite (NO2). Take note of the -i- in nitrite. Nitr-A-te is not toxic in the same way as nitrite. Liquid tests are more accurate than strips.


This! I know a lot on here aren’t a big fan of test kits, but I think getting these two plus a nitrate one will allow you a better idea of what is going on, and where you are with your cycle, rather than just guessing.  It will also help you identify any emergency water change situations that need taking care of straight away, which can happen during cycling due to the build up of toxic levels of ammonia or nitrite, which can occur.
This is a better indicator to use than when fish start dying IMO.

Once your ammonia and nitrite levels go down to virtually nothing, and your nitrate levels start rising, you know you are home and dry with the cycling 
 Some brilliant nuggets of wisdom already posted here by members.

The only thing I would add is that I would  advise running the tank a little cooler than 26 as well. 23 or 24 degrees C. More O2 for the fish in the water, less likely to encourage algae/diatom issues and also costs less to run.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your new aquarium 😀


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## John q (1 Feb 2021)

Hi @confusedman

I'm assuming you already have a thermometer in the tank? If this is the case then I personally don't see any need for another one. Like others have said check the bucket temperature via hot/cold tap with your hand and try to match to that of the tank. Next when pouring put your hand on the surface of the tank water palm up and let the water from the bucket run over your palm, if the temp is vastly different you will notice the difference. 
As a saftey net just check the temp via the thermometer in your tank after each bucket is poured and adjust to suit.

The ph will likely drop a bit as the tank cycles and its easy to get hung up trying to control it, if you're doing regular large water changes i wouldn't worry to much about it for now.

Do your water changes regularly, don't over feed and check daily that all your fish are still there and looking healthy.

Cheers.


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## John q (1 Feb 2021)

Agree with the above other than lowering the temp to much. Angelfish and rams prefer warmer temperatures and I think dropping to 23 at this point is asking for trouble. If you do want to lower the temp maybe drop it 1 degree.
If the tank needs more agitation/ oxygen put an air stone in for now until its cycled.


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## confusedman (2 Feb 2021)

Hello again everyone.
Ive got a question.
If I do daily 20 litres water changes and I use Seachem Prime...
1. I use the product following the dosage indications in the new water (and Im not sure if this Seachem would treat the rest of the water when they mix)? or
2. I should maybe put some in the tank water before I add the new water to treat the potential ammonia?

Thanks again


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## Kezzab (2 Feb 2021)

Hi, you can do either. I tend to dose the whole tank at water change because I fill with a hose straight from the tap, rather than bucket by bucket.


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## Raws69 (2 Feb 2021)

i Believe the instruction is to dose the tank if you change directly to the tank, if via a bucket then dose to the volume of the bucket.  I do the later as I pump from a 30lt bucket as my combi boiler doesn’t keep a consistent temp....


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## aquascape1987 (2 Feb 2021)

I pour it in where the hose is pumping into the tank so that it dissipates and mixes quickly when doing it like this. I know it’s fish safe, but I don’t like the idea of just pouring it in to the tank in an area where there is no movement when the filters are off, for fear of the fish swimming through an area where it’s concentrated. Not sure if it might be harmful if breathed in by fish when it’s concentrated for that couple of seconds after being poured in?

Either that or a wait until the water change is done and the filters are back on, and then slowly trickle it into the water jet returning from the filters so it’s mixed quickly. 

Im paranoid on this front from an incident I had early in my time of fish keeping, where I used an API product. I just dumped it in the tank when filters  were off during a water change, and the next day 75% of my tanks inhabitants were belly up.
I put this down to how I had added the treatment, and have never had the same issue by doing it like this since then.


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## John q (2 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> Hello again everyone.
> Ive got a question.
> If I do daily 20 litres water changes and I use Seachem Prime...
> 1. I use the product following the dosage indications in the new water (and Im not sure if this Seachem would treat the rest of the water when they mix)? or
> ...


I think you're using a bucket so I'd mix it in with that. A standard dose of prime to treat the whole tank you'd use 1.5mls but for the next week you'd be best to double dose to try and alleviate any ammonia/nitrite build up.
So that would be 3mls at water change split between the number of buckets you use.

Edit... I should add make sure you do your water changes during the day when the light is on and just to be cautious watch the fishes reaction in the immediate hour afterwards ( watch for lethargic behaviour or gasping at surface).It's just a precaution but prime can lower the oxygen levels after initial dosing.

Cheers.


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## confusedman (3 Feb 2021)

*UPDATE*

The Hemiographis Colorata and the Ophiopogon Japonica P. have been removed. The filter media and the Pistia stratiotes, Salvinia minima and  Anubias Barteri kindly donated by Shangman were added. The preexisting Anubias and Anacharis are there too.
The Angelfish, 2 Guppies, the Silver Molly, the Albino Corydora and two Cardinal Tetra went back to the shop.
Unfortunately one Tetra and the two Blue Ram, as John q very well predicted have died (with great feeling of guilt on our side)
So now the Swordtail, one Dalmatian Molly, one Black Molly, one Guppy, one Platy and one Honey Gourami are left.

We've been doing 20 litres water change daily and we were thinking about reducing it at every other day. We are using Seachem Prime.
When should we start adding the TNC Complete for the plants?

Then plan, as advised otherwise is to add a Cory when the tank is more mature. One single Cory or two Pygmy ones?? I read that the Pygmys don't clean as much but at least is not a lonely one. Please advise 
The idea is to add a Nerite snail too.

Thanks again for follow this short (but very bumpy) journey


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## John q (3 Feb 2021)

Hi confusedman, 
I wouldn't feel to guilty about the Rams, their fate was likely decided long before they came into your possession. The vast majority of specimens for sale in local fish stores have very weak immune systems and have often endured a hellish life prior to you chancing upon them.

Regards the corydoras I'm afraid it's bad news, they really should be kept in groups of 6, you could possibly push your luck and have 4 but having 1 isn't really cricket. If you did put 4 in your tank you'd be nearing capacity again.

Without sounding harsh spend a bit of time researching the species you plan on keeping, seriously fish is a good starting point for the basics. Again sorry if this sounds harsh but knowledge is power as they say.

So congratulations on taking some of the fish back and hopefully the ones left will now have a better chance of survival.

Cheers.


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## confusedman (5 Feb 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> That's a good point @alto.
> @confusedman ; it's very different to feeding people, or dogs, cats etc. A large part of what we eat is fuel to keep our body temperature constant. A fish's body temp is controlled by its environment so it doesn't need nearly as much food. Also, most of what we eat is largely water, whereas most fishfood is dried, so a flake contains much more nutrition than a piece of, say, cabbage of the same size.
> That's me just trying to emphasise, - VERY small amounts of food are plenty. It can be hard to get your head around this.
> I know there's a lot to take in at first, but it will all come together.
> ...


Thank you @sparkyweasel , very encouraging


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## John q (12 Feb 2021)

Hi @confusedman how's the tank coming along?


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## confusedman (12 Feb 2021)

No more deaths so far. We added some Java Moss today.
Doing 50% water changes every other day. Using Seachem Prime
Now we have a bit of a internal conflict about this Bladder snails: pets or pest?
Flatmate wants to cull them scared that they will turn into hundreds. I would keep them


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## John q (12 Feb 2021)

Haha glad it's going well.
Snails are a bit like in laws ~ Good in small doses.


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## confusedman (15 Feb 2021)

Hello everyone

We have to wait a bit before adding any more fish but we need to start looking at possible candidates.

I don't know why I feel  like a Corydora is  a "must" in every tank. We originally got an Albino cory that was sent back to the shop when we realised about the overcrowding.
Reading that we have to keep then in groups we decided then to get (in the future) four pygmy ones.
As we wanted to get some shrimps and a Zebra Nerite snail, do you think they would do a similar amount of cleaning..? I mean, could we not have the corys and get somenthing else instead?

What we have atm: 1 swordtail, 1 Guppy, 1 Honey Gourami, 1 Platy, 1 Black Molly, 1 Dalmatian Molly

The original idea getting 4 pygmy corys, two female Guppy, 3 Cherry (for an example) Shrimp and de Zebra Nerite snail. This would take us slightly over capacity

Please advise

If you think of any other fish suitable or you think this proposal is a total disgrace i would like to hear it all.

Thank you


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## shangman (15 Feb 2021)

Pygmy cories really need a minimum of 10 to feel safe at all, they're very tiny and cute and shoal, they hide a lot when there are only a few (I once bought 8 online, but I was done and they were basically tiny fry when they came and after a few weeks on 3 were left which I only saw occasionally. Once the LFS had them, I bought 8 more and the difference was enormous, they shoal together and stay together always and it's much cuter). They are not really like normal corydoras, they don't just live on the bottom sifting sand. Don't expect any of your animals to clean the tank, the corydoras (and shrimps) may eat leftover bits of food, but you should make sure they get food that's right for them (like sinking food for the corys, algae wafer for shrimps), and clean the gravel yourself, the animals can't really help with that. Having bottom-feeding fish is nice though, personally they are my favourite kinds of fish and they come in lots of variety.

If you get 2 female guppies, you will soon have MANY guppies. The fry might be eaten by some of the other fish, but you may end up with way too many. If you like the guppies, it would be better to just get all males (which are prettier).

Cherry shrimp and snails a very small footprint, as they're mostly eating the waste and algae in the tank. It would be good to see a new photo of your aquarium, your shrimp will need lots of plants to hide in so they don't get eaten immediately. I'd also get a minimum of 10 shrimp cos they're so cheap and small, and they will need to hide so your fish don't see them, so you want enough so they survive the eating + so you can see them sometimes.

Personally I would get the pygmy corys (10), the cherry shrimps and the snail. If that is overstocked, I would give back my least favourite one or two of the fish you already have. If I was being really honest, I would give back most of the fish you already have, except for my absolute favourites, and then get 1 or 2 more of that favourite fish to see how they act around eachother. It is best not to be overstocked, as it will affect the water quality.


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## confusedman (16 Feb 2021)




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## Shane1094 (16 Feb 2021)

Otocinclus are good candidates. What size is the tank?


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## confusedman (16 Feb 2021)

shangman said:


> Pygmy cories really need a minimum of 10 to feel safe at all, they're very tiny and cute and shoal, they hide a lot when there are only a few (I once bought 8 online, but I was done and they were basically tiny fry when they came and after a few weeks on 3 were left which I only saw occasionally. Once the LFS had them, I bought 8 more and the difference was enormous, they shoal together and stay together always and it's much cuter). They are not really like normal corydoras, they don't just live on the bottom sifting sand. Don't expect any of your animals to clean the tank, the corydoras (and shrimps) may eat leftover bits of food, but you should make sure they get food that's right for them (like sinking food for the corys, algae wafer for shrimps), and clean the gravel yourself, the animals can't really help with that. Having bottom-feeding fish is nice though, personally they are my favourite kinds of fish and they come in lots of variety.
> 
> If you get 2 female guppies, you will soon have MANY guppies. The fry might be eaten by some of the other fish, but you may end up with way too many. If you like the guppies, it would be better to just get all males (which are prettier).
> 
> ...


@shangman Thank you for the advice but we couldn't get rid of the 6 fish we have. They are family now.. It was quite upsetting to return the other lot to the shop when we realised that we had an overcrowded tank.
With the guppies I misunderstood: we actually had 3 males and we sent two back cause I understood that we had to keep one male and two females. Now I understand what they meant by that.
We could not get the guppies and maybe get another Honey Gourami as he/she is our favourite.
For the corys we couldn't get more than four so... or we skip altogether or we stick to that number.
They picture was taken yesterday. The only difference is the coconut bits with the Java moss. Its only been there for a couple of days


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## confusedman (16 Feb 2021)

Shane1094 said:


> Otocinclus are good candidates. What size is the tank?


only 54 litres..


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