# TMC Signature optiwhite rimless...



## sanj (6 Dec 2012)

Come on who's got one? I cannot believe that not one you have been tempted... yet not one journal!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (6 Dec 2012)

There not for sale yet?


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## sanj (6 Dec 2012)

I thought Charterhouse Aquatics were selling them, 2-3 days dispatch or somthing.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (6 Dec 2012)

Must have just started Sanj, I beg your pardon. I was interested in these too actually and was keeping an eye out  
They are fairly reasonably priced too!


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## JohnC (6 Dec 2012)

Is there a price for just the tanks? 

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## Nathaniel Whiteside (6 Dec 2012)

Yeah go have a look.

http://www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/ ... -2302.html


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## jack-rythm (6 Dec 2012)

Just so u guys know I'll thrash those prices  

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## Joecoral (7 Dec 2012)

shame they don't do any bigger ones


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## PPage666 (7 Dec 2012)

The Cabinets seem a decent price compared with ada


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## sanj (7 Dec 2012)

I guess until seen in the flesh we wont know quite how good they are. ADA classic or Do Aqua equivalent? 
TMC seem to do some things right and then others half baked. These tanks are a good move.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (7 Dec 2012)

I was looking at getting a cabinet. 

Expect a juwel like quality I'd imagine, as they are not far off the same price.


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## sanj (7 Dec 2012)

If that is so then I would say it is a good buy.

I dont really like the look of Juwel cabinet style, but the quality is not bad at all. The japense ADA "clean lines" style is much more appealing to my mind. So yes, TMC offering is looking good. 

I would like to replace my Dennerle 60 with one of these tanks, the question is can i get the permission to do so, or will I get my head bitten off.


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## Ady34 (7 Dec 2012)

PFK will be doing a review soon, saw on their website that they have some to test.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/c ... p?sid=5375


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (7 Dec 2012)

So they'll be giving one away in next months issue then...


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## sanj (7 Dec 2012)

I think PFK have got the sizes wrong. There are four options the largest being 60x45x45. Thats the size im interested in.


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## jack-rythm (8 Dec 2012)

Their finished in black silicone?! Not my choice personally  

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## Garuf (9 Dec 2012)

They're meant to be nice but the glass strikes me as thin? I have a 60x45x45 and it's got 10mm glass and was told it wouldn't be safe to make it any thinner, something I contacted Pilkingtons glass about and they confirmed.


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## jack-rythm (10 Dec 2012)

That's not true garuf. I build 600x45x45 tanks with 8mm and could easily get away with 6mm. I do my 450 cubes at 6mm too and their safe as houses  

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## jack-rythm (10 Dec 2012)

Cheaper for me, cheaper for the customer and still very safe  

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## JohnC (10 Dec 2012)

DC aquariums up here said 10mm for a 450mm cube, braceless, opti-white. 

Which surprised me somewhat as i was going in based on looking at thinner ADA tanks and my P@Q nano opti which is 5/6mm i think....

Are there not several suppliers of "opti" type glass? Would they not all have different recommendations dependant on the flex-strength and load testings of their specific low iron glass formula?


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## Ian Holdich (10 Dec 2012)

yep, from what i understand, 450mm and upwards maximum safety is 10mm. Its ok having it lower, but i'm unsure longer term.

a lot of the stuff i have read is that 6mm is safe over 450mm, but this is with brace bars.


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## jack-rythm (10 Dec 2012)

I think if your worried you can use 8mm for a 450 cube but 10mm is definitely over kill. I think all glass is pushed up a size to cover the unfortunates. Glass thicknesses are determined by the height of the tanks generally. You can build a 30cm cube in 4mm glass so it makes no sense to up it by an extra 6mm for a 450mm cube. But I do agree to that there are definitely lots of different aquarium build calculators out there


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## JohnC (10 Dec 2012)

ADA cube garden stats from TGM website - 

45cm cube - 6mm
55cm cube - 10mm

60x30x45 - 6mm
90x45x45 - 10mm

120x30x20 - 6mm
120x45x60 - 12mm


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## jack-rythm (10 Dec 2012)

Yeah as seen it does depend on height as a main value. I said earlier u will be fine at 6mm for a 45mm cube.   this is very safe and it means I can sell 450mm cubes for only 95 pound so everybody is a winner  

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## Garuf (11 Dec 2012)

Jack, what is your specific knowledge, is it based on suck it and see or is it coming from the maker of your glass? I'm not saying that you couldn't build it in 8mm or thinner, but that it might not be clever to do so because it makes the tank more prone to fail.

I contacted pilkingtons direct as recently as this winter and they told me in no uncertain terms that the weight distribution and the stress of constant water pressure on the glass meant they couldn't guarantee the safety of the tank in anything thinner than 10mm and that anything thinner shouldn't be considered safe because the constant deflection was outside what would be considered within the safe region of deformation before the glass is at risk of failing, be it from just the stress of the water or from a knock or "outside force" which would make it fail. 

It's my understanding that it's not just the height that's important but the overall volume which would be acting as a pressure on the glass? I'm not overly knowledgeable in the physics of it but it can't be as simple as just the height. 

This isn't to say different glasses aren't stronger or their makers are prepared to offer finer tolerances which could explain the thinner glass, it just had me thinking it struck me as thin when as I said I'd been told in no-uncertain terms that the glass my tank is made from wouldn't be safe in a thinner glass by the people who made it.


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## LondonDragon (11 Dec 2012)

jack-rythm said:
			
		

> Yeah as seen it does depend on height as a main value. I said earlier u will be fine at 6mm for a 45mm cube.   this is very safe and it means I can sell 450mm cubes for only 95 pound so everybody is a winner
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Jack if you have something for sale please put it in the Sales section, please do not advertise items for sale on any other forum! Thanks


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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

This wasn't a direct sale, I was explaining my point. But thanks for the heads up.  

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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

Oh sorry garuf just saw your post. My step dad is a Glazier, had been for 20 years, also has been in the tank building industry for about 10. I also triple check using poseidons calculator and another calculator method my stepdad used. Poseidons tanks are beautiful and I know he has been around for 5-6 years now roughly? It's not a case of me just glueing it and testing it. I would never ever be so stupid as to give someone something I was not 100 percent on. 

Jack

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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

IMO 10mm glass for a 450mm cube is incredibly overkill and this is how they charge more. I wouldn't think twice about building with 6mm glass. I can see your worry I truly can. A very reputable company explain u need something and it's in our best interest to listen. I also don't believe their are different levels of optiglass. Not stated differences anyway. I'm sure they all specifically build optiwhite glass to a rough low iron target. I will double check today, but I'm sure optiwhite glass is optiwhite glass. Same as mine same as ADA same as anything. To a rough target. I'll double check as I'm not concrete on this.  

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## George Farmer (12 Dec 2012)

I saw these in the flesh in the PFK office yesterday. The quality is excellent - rivals ADA. Same with the cabinets.

All credit to TMC for having their finger on the aquascaper's pulse...

I'm looking forward to playing with my 60x45x30Hcm (clear silicone and white cabinet) in the new year. I'm thinking a nice-and-safe classic Nature Aquarium aquascape to ease myself into the game again.  8)


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## viktorlantos (12 Dec 2012)

I think one of the reason why ADA changed their mind on tank properties, because earlier their tank had a bow especially above 90cm width. They used 8mm earlier even for 120P when they produced the tanks in the EU.

However going for the safe side only which is 8 mm for this size not solve another issue. The silicone bubbles because of the pressure. Above 90cm tanks you frequently can see air bubbles on the upper part of the silicone joints. Probably they went for an additional thickness because of this.

By the way 60cm is good with 6mm we only do 8mm with deeper and higher tanks.
From 90P size 8 mm is safe and 120P is 10mm. If you use these numbers the tank will not bow. With deeper and higher tanks we just go for an additional 2mm.

But except the german manufactured tanks i never seen tanks which resist from pressure and not have bubbles on higher sizes. We still have a german opti which is 120x45x45 8mm opti and bow 4mm on both sides! The glueing is so perfect that i never seen any bubbles there. The glue is thicker there but pretty solid. They may joint the sides with a machine to keep the glueing equal thick everywhere.


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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

Thats interesting mate


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## Garuf (12 Dec 2012)

Sorry Jack, just to reiterate, my tank is/was a 60x45x45 not a 45cm cube but still I'd be interested to hear back from you and I'd certainly like to know where Posidion got the safety tolerances from... 

Perhaps it's mixed messages or people set in there ways that is the reason why pilkingtons are saying one thing yet tank builders are saying another. Perhaps pilkingtons just have tighter safety standards or low iron glass is naturally less strong than float glass. I don't know. It just had me thinking what is going on, I know bows always made me nervous and it would seem not without due concern if they're saying it's more than what they deem safe. Who knows, I'd like to get to the bottom of it. 

I do think there are different opti-whites, there are several low iron glasses and all look subtly different hinting towards them being different glasses, I've seen some recently where the glass rather than appearing blue-ish is almost grey. 

George, good to see your back safe and sound. A safe scape? C'mon! Go crazy! 

Viktor, are ADA's tanks no longer made in germany then?


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## jack-rythm (12 Dec 2012)

Im not too sure where Poseidon's get their workings from. google him and private message him asking. Im sure he will be more than happy to help. If you go onto his website it supplies you with a calculator you can see for yourself all the stress loads and volumes etc  not a 45cm cube??!!! where the hell did i get that from then! lol maybe we went off topic and came back on again and I didn't realise lol! in that case I would personally build with 8mm glass just to be safe. Im 99% certain that there is no strength difference. email him and find out bud. I think different companies just have their own sale strategies. 

Good luck :


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## viktorlantos (12 Dec 2012)

We're using different low e glasses there are no difference just color. No matter if it is pilkingtons opti, guardian or clearglas etc. some may look clearer the edge color is greenish (opti) bueish or greyish. 

Ada manufacturer their tanks in china now with a premium provider. Qual is better than it was in germany. So they switched to a higher standard meanwhile save on logistics


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## sanj (19 Dec 2012)

Ive done it... bought one 

60x45x45 and black unit. Already set up, but broke a bloody glass intake... grr I hate lily pipes. Going back to plastic, plants will cover.

I wont buy an ADA, very nice, but too much money for a tiny tank. TMC is like the Buddha, takes the middle road.


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## Alastair (19 Dec 2012)

sanj said:


> Ive done it... bought one
> 
> 60x45x45 and black unit. Already set up, but broke a bloody glass intake... grr I hate lily pipes. Going back to plastic, plants will cover.
> 
> I wont buy an ADA, very nice, but too much money for a tiny tank. TMC is like the Buddha, takes the middle road.



Cough pics  


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## pepedopolous (19 Dec 2012)

From the pictures I've seen, it seems that the cabinets don't have any holes on the sides. Is that so?

P


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## sanj (20 Dec 2012)

pepedopolous said:


> From the pictures I've seen, it seems that the cabinets don't have any holes on the sides. Is that so?
> 
> P


 
There are no holes on the side, there is an opening at the top across the back and along the bottom.


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## pepedopolous (20 Dec 2012)

sanj said:


> side


 
Hmm. So that more or less rules out using a lily-pipe outlet.


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## sanj (20 Dec 2012)

I have a lily pipe outlet, but I broke the inlet. I am used to spray bars, not sure about this fragile glass stuff.


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## pepedopolous (20 Dec 2012)

sanj said:


> I have a lily pipe outlet, but I broke the inlet. I am used to spray bars, not sure about this fragile glass stuff.


 
I'm surprised that I haven't broken mine yet as I have broken 1 JBL thermometer (paper-thin glass!) and 2 bubble counters (got plastic now).

However, lilies look awesome and with a pipe-brush, can be cleaned really quickly. Regarding effectiveness, I'll leave that argument to the experts!


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Dec 2012)

acrylic is the future sanj, very difficult to break and stays clean twice as long as glass.  Just wish someone would start making them as cant diy a lily!!  intakes and spraybars are a doddle though.


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## Martin Osmond (20 Dec 2012)

easerthegeezer said:


> acrylic is the future sanj, very difficult to break and stays clean twice as long as glass. Just wish someone would start making them as cant diy a lily!! intakes and spraybars are a doddle though.


 
That is very nice indeed, don't suppose your gonna start making and selling some?


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## jack-rythm (20 Dec 2012)

Can I ask how u make them? I'm thinking I need a couple spray bars

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## sanj (20 Dec 2012)

Im all for Acrylic, my larger tanks are made of the stuff, but like you say strange lily pipes are not being made out of the material.


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## Iain Sutherland (20 Dec 2012)

Martin Osmond said:


> That is very nice indeed, don't suppose your gonna start making selling some?


 
well, i was going to but ask Nath, he's been waiting months 

might think about again in the new year.  It really isnt too hard.



jack-rythm said:


> Can I ask how u make them? I'm thinking I need a couple spray bars
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


 
Pretty simple jack, just get acrylic and rotate it over a heat gun slowly and little by little add the bend you want.  I guess it takes about half hour to make one like that with 2 bends.  There is a video on youtube ill try to find when im home.


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## jack-rythm (20 Dec 2012)

Wow wicked. Would define steely rather this than glass! Cheers mate

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## Garuf (21 Dec 2012)

My nano uses lillys and has no side holes, it makes it a touch harder but it's not impossible, and drilling holes in would be easy!


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## nduli (21 Dec 2012)

i am sure they had these in Gordon Rigg nursery in todmorden.  Loved the cabinets...


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## bape (4 Jan 2013)

Would love to see pics of cabinets if anyone has one. but I wonder why they didn't put cut outs on the sides for filter pipes? Otherwise I would have ordered one already....


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## Mitch (14 Jan 2013)

TMC are starting to make acrylic lily pipes. when we get them in at work i will take a photo


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## pepedopolous (14 Jan 2013)

Mitch said:


> TMC are starting to make acrylic lily pipes. when we get them in at work i will take a photo


Excellent news!


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## flygja (16 Jan 2013)

Here's a set i DIY'd. Couldn't get the lily pipe end either, no matter how much my face turned purple as I tried to huff and puff into the acrylic pipe.





I did it over a gas stove set to the lowest and a sheet metal chimney. It helps to channel heat to a smaller area which aids in bending and has a lower risk of over-heating which causes bubbles in the acrylic.


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## tim (16 Jan 2013)

I went for DIY acrylic jets rather than Lilly pipe outlet pics on page two of the optiwhite journal in my sig just heat and stretch the end with pin nose pliers


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