# how to set up the camera for testing aquarium lights



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Hi all

I have purchased a pink coloured tube for my 2x24w T5 light fixture which holds right now 6.500K and 10.000K tubes. I want to try different combinations and see how the tank looks like. I think the best way to do this is to take some shots as our (human beings) visual memory is very bad. The problem is that the camera will have to take images as close to reality as possible and the different shots should be comparable.

I can imagine the first part: tripod, full tank shot, ISO 400-800... but what about white balance? I have a LUMIX bridge camera (FZ48) and I can chose between daylight, cloudy, shade, incandescent, fluorescent, flash, automatic balance or manual (setting temperature).

The aim is doing what is shown in the lighting tutorial comparing cheap T5 bulbs...

Cheers,
Jordi


----------



## tim (3 Sep 2014)

Looking at jamesc thread he used the sunshine setting, maybe start with daylight then try a few other settings to see which gives you the best colour representation, then stick with that setting for the different bulb combinations, don't use the auto setting because it will change every time (stating the obvious ) post up your results jordi, I'll be interested to see the different combinations


----------



## Edvet (3 Sep 2014)

I would take shots on daylight setting and the correct temperature manual setting.
Problem will be those settings wil not be the same as your eye will see (and intepret) them. Any chance to get a "grey card" to correct them all in a photoshop like program?


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Edvet said:


> Any chance to get a "grey card" to correct them all in a photoshop like program?


I lost the one I owned... can I use the black background to correct the picture on photoshop indicating that this is the black? (not sure if I will be understood )

Jordi


----------



## clonitza (3 Sep 2014)

Close the lights in the room leave only the sun as a light source, set the camera to daylight and take the photos.
If you correct the wb with the gray card they all will look more or less the same and you don't want that.


----------



## Edvet (3 Sep 2014)

That's why i said take all pics in daylight and the correct temp too. But with a camera the hues will be exagerated, Your eye doesn't see like the camera does

Black point only will probably give to much variation, maybe if you have a black and a white it could work, make sure the points are not in the tank (water color has an extra influence, as does the glass)


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Ok, so daylight setting, take pictures and then correct the pictures in Photoshop indicating a black point (background) and a white one (wall behind tank)... Does it sound right? 

Just one doubt: the cloudy and shade settings for white balance give a much more real colour (the difference between what you can see and the picture is less). Shall I use them instead of daylight? I guess the key point is to use the same setting in all the shots and the correct using black and white references.

Jordi


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

Assuming you have live preview, I would use manual white balance and adjust it on the screen to look as near as possible to what your perception of each set of tubes is. Obviously you're then relying on the camera screen to give a fair representation of what you'll see on your computer,  which will depend on how well calibrated everything is but it should get you close.

Use manual for everything else and don't change it between shots.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

BigTom said:


> I would use manual white balance and adjust it on the screen to look as near as possible to what your perception of each set of tubes is


Curiously when I do this I got the best results setting the temperature at 6500K, even if my fixture has a 6500 and a 10000K tube.
Thanks everyone for the feedback, tonight I will try to do my best

Jordi


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

I find tube ratings to be all over the place really.

I don't think you should correct WB in PS or use a grey card - all that will do is attempt to mitigate the differences in color rendition which is the opposite of what you want. Just go by sight.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## Edvet (3 Sep 2014)

Problem i see is that what the eye sees (or percieves to see) is hard to catch in the camera. Using one daylight (or cloudy or shady) setting will give one way to differentiate, setting to the tube color (or adjusting it through live view to what you see) will give another and color correcting it (through grey card or through black and white point) will give a third set. Comparing these should give you the widest range of images to compare.
The sensitivity and wavelength respons in the human eye is rather different then the sensitivity of a filtered CCD device. If you want to choose on the basis of pics  just one set might not be optimal.
 (i personaly wouldn't choose on the basis of pics, but on what i see)


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

Could always do it in two steps if your computer is in the same room as the tank... close as possible in camera as described previously, then tweak the colour balance in PS to match what you can see even closer. The colour balance sliders are often better for this than a simple white balance adjustment, albeit mildly more fiddly. The aim surely is just to get it as close to possible on screen to what you're perceiving when looking at the tank.


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Luckily the tank and the computer are on the same room. I will try to see on screen the most accurate image of what I see... It's going to be fun , I will make sure I have enough beer on the fridge (I think you need it when doing this kind of things, isn't it? )


----------



## James O (3 Sep 2014)

To do this really accurately you need a graycard or colour test card, to shoot in RAW (to avoid jpeg processing) and have a properly calibrated monitor capable of displaying sufficient gamut

If you can connect the camera to the screen and adjust from there so life and screen match that would help.  As above keep the camera on full manual so the setting are the same for each image.

Will be interested to see the final photos


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Don't expect too much mates... I can only shot jpeg and I cannot connect my camera to the computer. I will also take only a partial view of the tank including plants of several colours because the tank is only half planted (in the middle of a rescaping process)

Jordi


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

Hi all

No sicence, no grey card, no RAW shoot, no calibrated monitor. This is what I've done: place my tripod in front of the tank, chose manual settings (f/5, 1/10s, ISO 400, exp. -1) and adjust in each case the white balance manually to see on the camera and PC monitor exactly (well... more or less) what I was seing. Not easy at all. Then I opened the pictures on Photoshop and the only thing I did was selecting a black area (background, always the same one) to correct the contrast.

And the result is this one:

T5HO 10.000 K + T5HO 6.500 K 


T5HO 10.000K + T5HO pink


T5O 6500K + T5HO pink


It is obvious that the 10.000+6500 combination gives very sharp greens and poor reds. It is also obvious that the addition of the pink tube enhances red colours. What is not clear to me is why the combination 10.000+pink gives yellowish greens, more than the combination 6500+pink which I thought was going to be the most artificial combination (well, actually it is when go backwards and you you look the tank from the distance).

My two references for judging the colour rendition are: the under leaves of Limnophila aromatica on the top left corner of the picture (the second stem that is starting to show some brownish colours) and the under leaf of Alternanthera reinickii rosaeifolia (in the top center-right). I think that in both cases the combination 10.000K+pink is giving to these spots the best colour rendition, but... what do you think? (in Spanish we have a saying that translated would be more or less: colours were created to suit every taste / para gustos, los colores )

Cheers,
Jordi


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

Nice one. I think I like the 10k + pink rendition least actually, but you're the one who has to look at it every day so I wouldn't give a monkey's what anyone else thinks


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

BigTom said:


> Nice one. I think I like the 10k + pink rendition least actually


Really? I would be interested in knowing your reasons... you know "para gustos, los colores" 

I forgot to mention that the three tubes are cheap T5HO ones from the aquarium trade. The 10.000K bulb is an Odyssea and the 6.500K is an Aqualight (both came with the Odyssea 2x24w T5 light fixture which is very cheap, so the tubes must also be very cheap also). The pink one is a Blau Colour Extrem that I purchased this week for 9.90€

Jordi


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

I just prefer the stronger greens with the 6500k tube really.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## parotet (3 Sep 2014)

You mean the 6500+pink combination, right?

Jordi


----------



## BigTom (3 Sep 2014)

That was probably my favorite yes.

Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk


----------



## Alexander Belchenko (4 Sep 2014)

Have you thought about to buy something like Osram or Philips 840/830?


----------



## parotet (4 Sep 2014)

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Have you thought about to buy something like Osram or Philips 840/830?


Not for the moment... Any advantage in using these ones?

Jordi


----------



## Alexander Belchenko (4 Sep 2014)

Well, 840 has more orange than pink coloration, 830 should be more red. I'm using 840+880 ATM in my tanks, It's jsut interested what your experiment might show for 840 or 830 plus your other tube.


----------



## parotet (4 Sep 2014)

Yes, you have to be used a little bit to pink. Once you are looking at the tank it's ok but at a first glance it looks... Pink! Probably if your lamp fixture has several tube, having one pink is ok, but for a two bulbs fixture it might be a bit special, although fish and red plants look awesome under this light. I guess the tubes you mention are quite cheap too. I will probably give them a try.

Jordi


----------



## parotet (4 Sep 2014)

Hi again mates

Now that I am in front of the tank and there is plenty of daylight in the living room the pinkish glow looks veeeeeeery strange. It looks like an UFO that has landed at home. It is amazing because when you are close to the tank the effect disappears but the general aspect is not natural at all.

Jordi


----------



## dw1305 (4 Sep 2014)

Hi all, 





BigTom said:


> I just prefer the stronger greens with the 6500k tube


I like the top "green one" (10,000 & 6500K), the greens look a "bit washed" out on the pinker images.

cheers Darrel


----------



## Alexander Belchenko (4 Sep 2014)

parotet said:


> ... I guess the tubes you mention are quite cheap too.



Yep, around 6-8 $$ in my country.


----------



## tmiravent (4 Sep 2014)

Hi Jordi,
i love color discussions, everyone got something to say!
And that's true. We all see different colors for the same situation. And you can make the test, try to see if your eyes have the same rendition. (one eye at the time).
That thing about women seeing more colors than men is also 'a bit' true (there more women with better color recognition than men, don't know the percentage)
Men have also better night vision, is also 'a bit' true.
I don't know if there is the 'best color' lamp for aquarium, maybe the...
I reached that point when the best color is the one that fit's me.
Our brain auto calibrates the white balance very quickly, that's why we normally miss the color changes.
But if we have then side by side is more easy to compare, or if we move fast from different light color places.
There are some colors that activate 'low level' emotions, the ones who work in publicity knows that (for sure)!
The warm tones, of the fire, in center of the house is something that makes a living room cozy.
The tank's have the blue tone of water, the green's of plants and sometimes the red's. It can be the red's of the plants or fish's but maybe also a bit of the 'emotional fireplace' that we lost somewhere...
The best color for you is the one that pleases you more.
Maybe you can add more lamps and change the color for your mod!
color is one of those things...
cheers


----------



## dw1305 (5 Sep 2014)

Hi all,





tmiravent said:


> That thing about women seeing more colors than men is also 'a bit' true (there more women with better color recognition than men, don't know the percentage)


It is funny I was looking at an artcile about this in National Geographic a couple of days ago <"Men and women really do see things differently">. There is also quite a bit in Dawkin's "The Ancestor's Tale" on colour vision.

I think it will be the majority of women who have better colour vision for a couple of reasons, one is because they wil have genes for red/green colour vision on both XX chromosomes. Men and women who carry the gene for "red/green colour blindness" will have 1 intact gene on the X chromosome (in women the other X will be the colour blindness gene carrier), and men with a damaged X gene will be "colour blind" <"Understanding Genetics">. 

The "National Geographic" article says that, even where the genes for colour blindness aren't involved, women have a better ability to differentiate colours in the centre of the spectrum (greens, yellows, oranges etc).

cheers Darrel


----------



## parotet (5 Sep 2014)

dw1305 said:


> The "National Geographic" article says that, even where the genes for colour blindness aren't involved, women have a better ability to differentiate colours in the centre of the spectrum (greens, yellows, oranges etc).


Lol... I finally purchased a Philips T5HO 840 (4.000 K)(7 euros, very nice combined with the 10.000K tube) and I was testing the lamps with miss. You know what? She says that for her, everything looks more or less the same, and that if I find these subtle differences it is because I look the aquarium too much! (which is obviously true). 

So, the lesson learnt and in order to improve National Geographic statement: "women do have a better ability to differentiate colours, unless they don't really care about your stupid worries. In that case they are colour blind".

In a few days I will include a picture testing different combinations with this new lamp.

Jordi


----------



## X3NiTH (5 Sep 2014)

I suspect that somewhere along our lineage when we were arboreal primates it would have been advantageous for nursing mothers to have keener colour vision to better differentiate the ripeness of fruit. Maybe?


----------



## Alexander Belchenko (5 Sep 2014)

Jordi, so true!


----------



## flygja (8 Sep 2014)

X3NiTH said:


> I suspect that somewhere along our lineage when we were arboreal primates it would have been advantageous for nursing mothers to have keener colour vision to better differentiate the ripeness of fruit. Maybe?


And the men kept eating unripe or over-ripe fruit?


----------



## Edvet (8 Sep 2014)

I thought they where hand fed premasticated choice pieces............ah the good old days..............


----------



## parotet (8 Sep 2014)

Edvet said:


> I thought they where hand fed premasticated choice pieces............ah the good old days..............


Being fed, watching the precursor of an aquarium (stream)... What more could be asked? 
What a pity beer was not invented yet...


----------



## X3NiTH (8 Sep 2014)

parotet said:


> Being fed, watching the precursor of an aquarium (stream)... What more could be asked?
> What a pity beer was not invented yet...



But those fruit the females discard will likely be littering the floor and will have over ripened to the point of fermentation, so the males that are left below have to take more chances with their food supply and inadvertently get to discover the delights and dangers of alcohol. Beer isn't discovered until we arrive on the Savannah and are faced with even poorer food choices! Maybe?


----------

