# Plant mass vs algae



## Victor (19 Jul 2015)

Hello, mates! I'm with a trouble in my tank. My echinodorus tenellus amano is growing like crazy and dominating the tank. Currently it represents about 30 % of plant mass of my tank. So I'm thinking to uproot it and throw away. But my tank has some algae because I've increased my lighting last week. So, what's the impact if I get rid my echinodorus? Thank you.


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## tim (19 Jul 2015)

You don't have to uproot it trim down to substrate level and it'll grow back nice and dense, if your concerned about algae reduce light intensity for a while after the trim.


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## Victor (19 Jul 2015)

Actually I want to replace it to another plant. Echinodorus tenellus grows in layers and too fast invading the other plants. I was thinking to replace it by posgostemon helferi. But if I uproot the echinodorus I'll cause more algae?


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## tim (19 Jul 2015)

Uproot it, give the area a good clean and replant with the pogo Helfri, worth doing a few waterchanges and lowering light intensity untill the new plant adjust's especially if it's been grown emmersed. Good luck with it victor, keeps us posted.


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## zozo (20 Jul 2015)

Thats a nice transition  from an invasive fastgrower to relative demanding slow grower like the pogo helferi.. Looking at it from that angle and having algae it maybe not the best choice to make.. you need fast growers to compete with algae.

I've lost track, but i think got about 20 different plant species in my tank now, all doing very good, but the helferi is the only one showing signs of trouble. All melted away and only got 3 tiny shoots left, which i actual only see getting smaller over time instead of growing. Tried about everything from extra micros to root tabs, changing location for more light, but stil Helfi is not satisfied. There must be something it wants i don't have what all other plants don't mind not having.

I have the feeling it's a light issue and Helfi is very light demanding, also had to combat algae and lowered the light period and intensity. Algae pressents and growth is down to 90% and relatively forced to a standstill. Still if i up the light i see the staghorn coming to live again in les then 3 days time where the light hits the most, if i go down again it's gone again in 3 days. 

The uprooting woont cause you extra algae, it may cause some spikes in water chemistry, for that you got water changes. but swapping a fast grower for a difficult slow grower maybe will.  Getting the light down prevents algae growth but also doesn't help Helfi to establish. I don't know your real time situation so the only advice i can give is, think twice.. 

If you're persistant in wanting to try the helferi, maybe the best choice is to get it via "for sale/swap/wanted" from an other tank keeper  so you get one already used to submersed growth.


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## dw1305 (20 Jul 2015)

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> you need fast growers to compete with algae.I've lost track, but i think got about 20 different plant species in my tank now, all doing very good, but the helferi is the only one showing signs of trouble. All melted away and only got 3 tiny shoots left, which i actual only see getting smaller over time instead of growing. Tried about everything from extra micros to root tabs, changing location for more light, but stil Helfi is not satisfied.


I haven't had any luck with _Pogostemon helferi_ either, not even semi-emersed. It rapidly went pale for me and then slowly shrank to nothing, it didn't like either the low nutrients and/or, my suspicion, soft water. 

I would be tempted to add a plant like _Ceratopteris _at the same time, it will add some plant mass whilst the _Pogostemon_ starts growing.

cheers Darrel


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## Victor (21 Jul 2015)

Guys, here's a picture to show you the echinodorus tenellus size:





And here are my algae infastation (it's not too much):








My main concern is when I uproot the plant because it'll release ammonia to water column. And I'll have a algae outbreak. I'm right?


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## ian_m (21 Jul 2015)

Victor said:


> My main concern is when I uproot the plant because it'll release ammonia to water column. And I'll have a algae outbreak. I'm right?


May do, but if you have sufficient and mature filters they will remove the ammonia pretty quickly so won't be an issue. If really worried add Prime or Amquel to the tank first as this will neutralise ammonia, if any gets released.


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## zozo (21 Jul 2015)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I haven't had any luck with _Pogostemon helferi_ either, not even semi-emersed. It rapidly went pale for me and then slowly shrank to nothing, it didn't like either the low nutrients and/or, my suspicion, soft water.
> 
> I would be tempted to add a plant like _Ceratopteris _at the same time, it will add some plant mass whilst the _Pogostemon_ starts growing.
> 
> cheers Darrel



That could very well be, i got very soft water as well.. Also tried a portion sebmersed i saw dying during the transition, did put it on wood directly under the lights and that also didn't make it died off very quick, i thought it did because it was already to much damaged to recover. Still wonder why there are still after 2 months 3 shoots left holding on.
Data on the internet is rather inconclusive, many people having trouble growing it and others say its quite undemanding and growing easily in different parameters.
http://www.flowgrow.de/db/aquaticplants/pogostemon-helferi
Anyway  it wouldn't be my choise of plant as a replacemt for a fast grower and having algae.. @Victor, why not try a small portion first and see how it develops..  If it does good, you can swap it with the tennelus over time bit by bit, if the your Helfi does good and propagetes.


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## sciencefiction (21 Jul 2015)

The echinodorus looks very well in the tank I might say. If you want to replace it, I'd do it in stages and at the same time introduce another fast grower. Removing plants from the substrate can cause a diatom outbreak but it may not last long.
The anubias is never going to like that high light central position. It prefers shade to stay algae free.  A lily of some sort planted in the center could do that and it would give a nice red contrast, like red tiger lotus for example.


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## zozo (21 Jul 2015)

sciencefiction said:


> The echinodorus looks very well in the tank I might say. If you want to replace it, I'd do it in stages and at the same time introduce another fast grower. Removing plants from the substrate can cause a diatom outbreak but it may not last long.
> The anubias is never going to like that high light central position. It prefers shade to stay algae free.  A lily of some sort planted in the center could do that and it would give a nice red contrast, like red tiger lotus for example.



Yup the first plant coming to my mind, if i had that wonderfull tank, chop the top and definitely a floating Aponogeton..


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## Victor (21 Jul 2015)

I was thinking to plant myriophyllums behind the anubias and let they grow on the water surface (with submersed leaves) to shade them. I have also some bolbitis heldelotii between the 2 larger stones. This plant becomes big enough to their leaves reach the water surface and shade the anubias as well?


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## zozo (22 Jul 2015)

I also have Heudelotii and anubias, it's somewhat the same as the Anubias, it grows a bit faster but still is a rather slow grower. Both show the algae growth first if there is some. It might shade the anubias but then the boblitis likeley will take the algae over, they both are slow growers. Actualy the bolbitis is best kept in low light as much as the anubias.


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