# Anyone tried Easy-Life EasyCarbo?



## CJ Castle

Hi,

Just had a quick look on AE and saw a product which was new me... Easy-Life EasyCarbo... 

Does it achieve the same results as Flourish Excel? Is it more effective? Generally, what is your experience with Easy-life products? (If you have _any_ experience with Easy-life, that is...    )


----------



## beeky

I noticed it too. It's cheaper than Excel, but only just. It's still a very expensive way to go. I don't know how effective Excel is anyway. I never saw any pearling while using it on a 3' tank with two T5s.


----------



## Ray

Yes, I've been using it for 2.5 weeks in my little 25L with 13w light, without CO2 but with the Easylife ferts.  The 0.5ml dose means the bottle will last me 18 months so its cost effective and minimal fuss.  When I add it the plants release tiny oxygen bubbles you can hardly see.  My pigmy chain sword is growing new leaves, its not as fast as under C02 but a lot less fuss and much less pruning.  I like it.


----------



## Maximumbob

it will be interesting to see how this product goes down.  I'm really attached to my Exel because of its algaecidal properties...


----------



## Ray

Do we know if the ingredients are the same?  Can anyone tell us the biology/chemistry involved?


----------



## Maximumbob

this is the maufacturers website.

http://www.easylife.nl/english/index.html?id=40

apparently its a dutch product.


----------



## Ed Seeley

Just bought some from AE so hopefully it'll help get rid of the BBA! 
Nice to hear about the minimal dosing rates!  The 500ml I've bought will last ages then!!!


----------



## Maximumbob

I have been perusing the easylife website and came across this product:

http://www.easylife.nl/english/index.html?id=06

a 'fluid filter media'

Would any of our more chemically aware members care to highlight exactly what this does.  It sounds like a re-branding of a flocculant to me, maybe with a few added extras.

One thing which does appeal across the range is the price and dosage regimens.  It could mean that this product is very economical.

Comments please. (cause i'm thick)


----------



## Ray

You took the question off the tip of my tongue Maximum Bob.  The bit I particularly like is "children can even drink out of the bottle".  What is it and what does it do?


----------



## fishgeek

all those great clais make me think snake oil, hey i dont know i am just cynical

just because something is natural doesnt make it safe
claims to contain no chemicals no bacteria and no organics..! what does it contain and if it is inorganic how is that natural?  maybe just me beingpedantic in my use of the word organic, again?

claims to be an adsorbent , and doent really explain how much it can adsorb and whether that process maybe reversabe at any (even if unlikely in aquaria) set of parameters


sounds almost to good to be tru

anyone know anything factual about it rather than just the advertising literature?

andrew


----------



## Maximumbob

I've just been to AE website... Tom Barr popped over and said Easylife Carbo HAS got gluteraldehyde in it...

Damm.. and I've just bought a 500ml bottle of Excel....  wouldnt mind trying it out!


----------



## zig

I've been using it on and off for over six months and to all intent and purpose its exactly the same as Seachem excel, it definitely works as an algaecide if that's you main intention using it, I find spot treatment always works best for me treating algae this way.


----------



## CJ Castle

Cheers, all... 

I think I may give it ago, it sounds like a pretty good product...


----------



## Themuleous

Given the smaller dosing rate, anyone know what the algae dosing rate would be?  I.e. excel is 3x, would this still be 3x?

Sam


----------



## Ray

I use it daiy so I'm happy to try spot dosing and report back - do I just spray from the syringe onto the affected area to spot dose?


----------



## Themuleous

As i understand it yes


----------



## Ed Seeley

I've been using this for a week now so thought I'd update.

I'm adding 1ml a day to my 5 gallon Cube and it's already knocking back the BBA.  Finally, something that kills it for me!  I measure 1ml in a pipette and then suck up some tank water as well to dilute it slightly. Then I squirt it over the worst affected areas each day and it has really knocked those bits back.  It does seem to have discoloured, maybe killed, one of the Java fern leaves though that I applied it to.  It's not having as large an effect on the areas but it does seem to be starting to die off there too.


----------



## Themuleous

Cheers Ed


----------



## George Farmer

It's the same as Excel, although their dosing instructions differ slightly.

I've spot dose BBA successfully with it already.

The other Easy Life product mentioned earlier in the thread, "liquid filter" is zeolite in a liquid suspension.  JBL Clynol is the same.


----------



## Themuleous

Do you kknow how it differs George?  And what that means for overdosing?  Its much cheaper


----------



## Themuleous

You can get it ultra cheap from here

http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bin/n ... &mpath2=62

Sam


----------



## Ray

George Farmer said:
			
		

> The other Easy Life product mentioned earlier in the thread, "liquid filter" is zeolite in a liquid suspension.  JBL Clynol is the same.



So this fluid filter medium will be like a one off dose of a CEC substrate?  
As mentioned in this thread: http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=550



> - it will exchange H+ ions for cations in the water?  It doesn't really absorb anything as such. H+ ions are basically acid which is why pH drops. Also the H+ ions being acid will reduce the KH.  Does that reduce TDS then or am I on the wrong track?



Chemistry never was my subject but I could really use an Aquarists Chemistry textbook these days...


----------



## ceg4048

Hi ray,
          Zeolite is a naturally occurring mineral which has the property of being able to attract and trap ammonia so this is a great property for a filter media. From what I read it can also be recharged with a brine or salt solution (but I'm unsure of what concentration is necessary for this.) Barr also reckons this property would would make it a great candidate for use as a substrate but I'm not sure if ammonia entrapment in zeolite is the same mechanism or effect as cation exchange in substrates. Seems like apples and oranges to me but they may be related.

Cheers,


----------



## JamesC

Zeolite does actually hold ammonia by absorption and also by cation exchange. Take a read of what it says on this website - http://www.bearriverzeolite.com/BRZ Pages/animalodor.html

Interesting bit about plants under the heading BASIC PRINCIPLES

Wandered a bit off topic here - sorry  

James


----------



## quatermass

*Why is EasyCarbo considered more cost effective?*



			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> You can get it ultra cheap from here
> 
> http://www.aquaristikshop.com/cgi-bin/n ... &mpath2=62
> 
> Sam



How is that 'ultra cheap'? 


500ml bottles aquaristik and AquaEssentials
12Euros is Â£9.40 and Aqua Essentials sells it for Â£9.99.
Dutch VAT is 19%...UK VAT is 17.5%
P+P from Netherlands is 4.4Euro (Â£3.50), AquaE to UK is free

Also when you compare dosage rates. You use more EasyCarbo

Excel = 5ml per 200L

EasyCarbo = 20ml per 200L

So am I missing something?


----------



## Themuleous

*Re: Why is EasyCarbo considered more cost effective?*

Anyone who read that previous post, I jumped to a conclusion, I was wrong.

San


----------



## ceg4048

Hi Sam,
             You got to the post before I could comment. Thanks for that.   What is astonishing about quartermaster's point is that it never dawned on me that the dosage rates for the two products were so vastly different. I had been dosing Easycarbo at the same rate as Excel, and I threw away my last bottle, however if quartermaster is correct, this means that 1 bottle of Excel does the job of 4 bottles of Easycarbo.   Is this correct? It's astounding. Luckily I haven't needed it seriously, since I just use it to top up my CO2 content but the real question is does Excel really have 4 times the concentration of the active ingredient (complexed gluteraldehyde)? Or are they the same concentration and that Easylife just want you to use more so that you buy more? I'm now wondering whether you can dose Easycarbo at or near the same rate as Excel and get away with it.

Any thoughts on possible ways to test or to obtain the data?

Cheers,


----------



## Themuleous

Humm no idea, not used easycarbo to be honest.  Don't really use excel either, just to sort out any BBA when it occurs.

Sam


----------



## quatermass

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi Sam,
> You got to the post before I could comment. Thanks for that.   What is astonishing about quartermaster's point is that it never dawned on me that the dosage rates for the two products were so vastly different. I had been dosing Easycarbo at the same rate as Excel, and I threw away my last bottle, however if quartermaster is correct, this means that 1 bottle of Excel does the job of 4 bottles of Easycarbo.   Is this correct? It's astounding. Luckily I haven't needed it seriously, since I just use it to top up my CO2 content but the real question is does Excel really have 4 times the concentration of the active ingredient (complexed gluteraldehyde)? Or are they the same concentration and that Easylife just want you to use more so that you buy more? I'm now wondering whether you can dose Easycarbo at or near the same rate as Excel and get away with it.
> 
> Any thoughts on possible ways to test or to obtain the data?
> 
> Cheers,



Who is this 'Quartermaster'?


----------



## Maximumbob

I'm confused.

I have a bottle of each product in front of me:

Excel = 5ml / 200l (1ml / 40 ltrs) daily or every other day
Easy carbo = 1ml / 50 litres daily

To my eyes the dosage is pretty similar.  Am I missing something?


----------



## Steve Smith

That reads that you need to use almost twice as much (broadly speaking) of easy carbo, as you're dosing a similar amount but daily as opposed to every two days.


----------



## Luketendo

DevUK said:
			
		

> That reads that you need to use almost twice as much (broadly speaking) of easy carbo, as you're dosing a similar amount but daily as opposed to every two days.



Don't most knowledgeable people dose every day though?


----------



## ceg4048

Luketendo said:
			
		

> DevUK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That reads that you need to use almost twice as much (broadly speaking) of easy carbo, as you're dosing a similar amount but daily as opposed to every two days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't most knowledgeable people dose every day though?
Click to expand...


No, it depends on how much of a cheapskate you are and how well you manage your garden. If your CO2 injection methods are sub-par for example, such as in the case of yeast based systems the liquid carbon products will help to stabilize and to raise the CO2 level if dosed daily. If you have fish that are sensitive to CO2, even when using pressurized injection, daily dosing will help maintain a higher _effective_ CO2 level without the risk of asphyxiation. If your CO2 is already high but not quite as high as you would want without tripping over the toxic barrier, dosing will help, but you need not do it daily. You can monitor plant health and dose when necessary, or dose every other day.

Cheers,


----------



## Ed Seeley

I use EasyCarbo in my tank (with 30ppm CO2) at double dose rates as a safety factor when things are unstable, or potentially unstable, in my tank.  
So after a water change, trim, replanting and uprooting or if I'm having the lights on early (at the weekends or holidays when I don't want to sit and look at a dark tank!) I dose it with the ferilisers, hoping it will knock back any algae that may be lurking unseen and give the plants a boost.  

I also thought the dosages were pretty similar as per Maximumbob's post.


----------



## quatermass

Maximumbob said:
			
		

> I'm confused.
> 
> I have a bottle of each product in front of me:
> 
> Excel = 5ml / 200l (1ml / 40 ltrs) daily or every other day
> Easy carbo = 1ml / 50 litres daily
> 
> To my eyes the dosage is pretty similar.  Am I missing something?



Interesting. I don't own a bottle of EasyCarbo. But I quoted from their web site.

Ah..I see what I've done. I've quoted from their wrong product.   

Sorry about that. Just shoot me now as I'm a stupid Ass!   

Ok copy and pasted from the right page this time:


aquarium with only a few plants : 1 ml per 100 litres daily
aquarium moderately planted : 1 ml per 50 litres daily
aquarium heavily planted : 1 ml per 25 litres daily

So Excel is 5ml per 200L or 1ml per 40L if you prefer.
So EasyCarbo is perhaps a touch more concentrated.

Which is odd as its only competitor is Excel, so you'd expect them to make it much more obvious that it was better value for money as it's the newer product and not as well established in the market place. (Maybe they need to go to a business class?   )

Let the price war begin...?


----------



## Ray

Actually, not quite so obvious, I think there is some pan European Dutch vrs. American stuff going on.  Here in Switzerland you can't get Seachem products at all where as EasyCarbo is in every LFS I've visited so far - EasyLife must be cleaning up!


----------



## beeky

Do plants take up the carbon in Excel/EasyCarb in the same way as CO2, or do they have to adjust to the different form? Just wondering if it's possible to chop and change between them if actual carbon levels could be kept much the same.


----------



## quatermass

beeky said:
			
		

> Do plants take up the carbon in Excel/EasyCarb in the same way as CO2, or do they have to adjust to the different form? Just wondering if it's possible to chop and change between them if actual carbon levels could be kept much the same.



I believe the Glutaraldehyde seeps through the leaves directly into the plant and thus is not as effective as CO2. But better than none. 

If you visit http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Excel you find some excellent links to discussions on Excel and how it works.


----------



## ceg4048

Hi,
   Higher plants convert the gluteraldehyde to CO2 and then use the CO2. In the chloroplast reaction chambers of the plant only CO2 can be used in the carbon fixing sequence during photosynthesis because the Rubisco enzyme is specifically tuned to attract and transport this molecule plus the Ribulose biphosphste (RuBP) enzyme to the chambers. CO2 + RuBP are engaged in a sequence of reactions (known as the Calvin-Benson Cycle) that ultimately results in a special type of sugar being produced as the end product of photosynthesis. This product is called glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate, commonly known as G3P. [Phosphate haters please take note by the way]

I believe algae (at least the ones in our tanks) lack the chemical acrobatics to do the conversion of gluteraldehyde => CO2 so it is actually toxic to them. I haven't confirmed it but I reckon there must be similar incompetence in liverworts and bladderworts. This is why Excel/Easycarbo is such a cool silver bullet. It's carbon content is not available to algae and it is toxic to them. How much Excel is required to achieve the same effect of 30ppm CO2 injection? I have no idea but I'll bet it's a lot.  Much better to supplement your injection, I figure.

Cheers,


----------



## beeky

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hi,
> How much Excel is required to achieve the same effect of 30ppm CO2 injection? I have no idea but I'll bet it's a lot.  Much better to supplement your injection, I figure.
> Cheers,



It was more of a theorectical question really. I don't even think a second mortgage would cover it!

That aquariumwiki sounds interesting. never heard of it before, could be lots of good stuff on there.


----------



## Martin

We don't need aquariumwiki, we have "Cegipedia".


----------



## quatermass

Martin said:
			
		

> We don't need aquariumwiki, we have "Cegipedia".



Just can't find that edit button though....   

The Aquarium Wiki Encyclopaedia been around for almost 18 months now and myself and several other Aquarist have been adding content daily. We now have a forum as of last week.

We notice that most Aquarium sites lack certain areas, like product reviews, company contact details, lists of Clubs or web forums with their own page. As it's user controlled the users decide on the content of all of it.   

What I like about the Wiki is that you can add it to your own web browser's Search engine so if you don't know an acronym  or technical term, then I can just type in the word and click go and it pops up a page on it.

So if you don't know what FOWLR, FBF or Wen is then it's just a click away!

See the front page on how to add it to Firefox or Internet Explorer. Dead easy.

Maybe a UKAPC moderator may wish to add a page on this forum? Call it UKAPS? We get a fair bit of Traffic so probably worth while getting another link to advertise this forum?


----------

