# What types of algae don’t spread from spores



## glasscanvasart (19 Jul 2021)

The idea is that if I don’t introduce these algae then I wouldn’t ever have a problem with them. Some species such as Cladophora are particularly hard, perhaps impossible to deal with and can be detrimental to plant health. 

Also are there any suggestions for plant dips? I have some Bucephalandra with algae that I’d be quite pleased to remove.


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## sparkyweasel (19 Jul 2021)

What types of algae don't spread from spores?
Dead algae. 

And the spores get everywhere, I don't believe there is any practical way of keeping algae out. You need to provide conditions that favour good plant growth, healthy plants are less susceptible to attacks by algae.
Excessive dissolved organic matter seems to benefit many types of algae, so tank maintenance should not be neglected.


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## ceg4048 (20 Jul 2021)

glasscanvasart said:


> Also are there any suggestions for plant dips? I have some Bucephalandra with algae that I’d be quite pleased to remove.


As mentioned by sparkyweasel your suggestion is impractical. It's first necessary to understand the causal factors of each algae type. These algae are normally associated with malnutrition. Shortages of nutrients or shortages of CO2 will result in the rise of each associated species. Clado is a CO2 related algae, so if that is the symptom then you know that you need to fix your CO2/flow/distribution. If this is happening in a non-injected tank then it means there is too much light.

Plant leaves attacked by algae never recover, so dips are also impractical and it is better to remove the affected leaf because they will only get attacked again. Any dip capable of killing the algae will also kill the plant. Mechanical removal, frequent and large water changes and supplements such as liquid carbon products  will help with CO2 related algae. This will only work, however, if the root cause has been addressed.

Cheers,


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## jaypeecee (28 Jul 2021)

Hi @glasscanvasart 

The use of UV-C sterilization/disinfection is worth considering. Water-borne spores are irradiated by the high energy UV-C, which damages the DNA of algae spores. In order for this to be effective, the rate of water flow through the UV-C sterilizer must lie within the range recommended by the manufacturer. The duration of exposure to the UV-C is known as the dwell time and this should be specified by the manufacturer. Note that the presence of particulate and dissolved organics in the water column may reduce the effectiveness of this approach.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (28 Jul 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Excessive dissolved organic matter seems to benefit many types of algae, so tank maintenance should not be neglected.


So true, @sparkyweasel. 

JPC


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## glasscanvasart (31 Jul 2021)

I don’t think people really understood where I was coming from, because I didn’t articulate my thoughts very well. I know what works in regards to maintaining a healthy system, though sometimes I can’t be bothered to and I’m still looking towards improving my delivery of CO2. The idea isn‘t to avoid relying on proper husbandry for maintaining a healthy aquarium, as this is obviously unavoidable as a number of you have pointed out.

I also understand that most algae are introduced as spores in the air and water, in other words they are unavoidable. However some are not and I’d rather not introduce them. It’s a bit like pest snails. If you keep your aquarium clean and limit their food sources they won’t be an issue, but they will still be there and they don’t have to be.

Anyway, what are the types of algae that are not introduced from spores in the air and water, or is what I’ve read about Cladophora misinformed?

Having said all that, I’m always open to being wrong.


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## jaypeecee (31 Jul 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Excessive dissolved organic matter seems to benefit many types of algae, so tank maintenance should not be neglected.


Hi @sparkyweasel 

I'm homing in on_ organic_ phosphorus/phosphate. Unfortunately, this cannot be detected by aquarist phosphate (PO4---) test kits. The crazy thing is that we are adding inorganic and organic phosphate to our tanks every time we feed our livestock. And a good deal of this passes through their digestive system only to be expelled into the aquarium water. I'm sure this will not come as any surprise to a lot of aquarists. Keeping the tank free of detritus, doing frequent water changes and cleaning filtration equipment is obviously helpful but does it go far enough? In the first instance, I suggest we should be taking a look at the food that we feed our livestock. And, does it not make sense to consider using suitable filtration media that will help to reduce phosphorus/phosphate in the water column? The key word here is 'reduce'. We can't completely remove phosphorus and its compounds as our plants would not be too happy.

JPC


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## sparkyweasel (31 Jul 2021)

Is there a difference in the phosphate when it is in solution if it came from organic rather than inorganic compounds?


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## ceg4048 (31 Jul 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Is there a difference in the phosphate when it is in solution if it came from organic rather than inorganic compounds?


Actually, in a broad sense, yes, there is a difference, but that difference is NOT what The Matrix would have you believe. 
The difference lies in the origin and the location of PO4 within large organic structure. The PO4 ion itself is the same as inorganic PO4 but in organic compounds it is attached to other molecules and is not free. As it is bound to other molecules it's activity is neutralized until the compound is broken apart by some physical or enzymatic action. Inorganic PO4 is free as soon as it is dumped into the tank and is immediately taken up by plants as well as by bacteria. On the other hand, PO4 attached to organic compounds still counts as an organic compound and is ignored by plants, but the compound itself can be broken apart by bacterial action. None of this is actually relevant because just about all organic compounds are constructed of some combination of Carbon, Nitrogen, Phosphorus. Potassium and other elements. These elements are bound up within the architecture of the complex organic molecules. 

So getting rid of organic compounds (regardless of whether they contain PO4 or NO3 or whatever) by changing the tank water is important because the breakdown of organic compounds in the tank by aerobic bacteria consumes oxygen. The Matrix programs it's little lemmings to get rid of organically derived PO4 in the belief that PO4 is a scary boogieman, but the danger lies in the actual breakdown of organic compounds  - full stop. The more complex the compound the more oxygen gets robbed from the water column. It is therefore pointless to worry about organically derived PO4 because by the time PO4 is released from the original organic compound the damage has already been done.

This is exactly the same for those that fret endlessly about NO3 in the tank. Again, they are programmed to fret about NO3 and so panic sets in if their cheesy test kit shows high NO3, but the NO3 is the result of the detoxification cycle NH3-->NO2-->NO3. 
By the time the innocuous NO3 is constructed and liberated by bacterial action the damage has been done by the toxicity of NH3 and of NO2, plus the removal of oxygen from the water column by the bacteria to get to the NO3 end product. Frequent and large water changes defends the tank against the damage by reducing the concentration of NH3 and therefore reducing not only the exposure to the fish, but also reduces the need for the bacteria to steal oxygen from the water in order for them to _produce_ NO3 in the first place.

At the end of the day therefore, it is pointless to be concerned about organically derived NO3 or PO4. In fact, if these ions are liberated from their organic construct then that is probably the only good news of this melodrama. The bad news is that fish and plants are at risk of exposure to highly toxic NH3 and NO2 as well as to hypoxia, which is the worst possible news.

Cheers,


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## jaypeecee (2 Aug 2021)

Hi Folks,

One of my concerns about organic phosphates is that cyanobacteria (and phytoplankton in general?) can feed on these. As organic phosphates cannot be detected by aquarists, we run the risk of encouraging cyanobacteria growth. It seems that cyanobacteria secrete enzymes known as phosphatases and this enables them to extract phosphorus from organic phosphates. For more information, please take a look at the following:



			http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0352-4906/2013/0352-49061325031B.pdf
		


In my tanks, I am less concerned about dissolved oxygen - simply because my tests indicate oxygen concentration to be always around the 8 ppm mark.

JPC


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