# How do you remineralize your RO water?



## DutchMuch (20 Jun 2019)

what product do you guys use or what methods?
please describe in best detail lol trying to find a method that will work for me.

And opinions on this? https://www.chewy.com/aquatic-life-ro-buddie-four-stage/dp/146155


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## ian_m (20 Jun 2019)

A lot of people just remineralise their water by cutting with tap water, say 50:50 or whatever to get their desired TDs. Nice and simple.


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## Geoffrey Rea (20 Jun 2019)

Same as @ian_m 

Cut with tap water. If I remember right you said your water was liquid rock from the well on the property. If EI dosing you should be able to comprehensively cover all bases on nutrition and have softer water without resorting to remineralising products @DutchMuch


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## ian_m (20 Jun 2019)

Why do you want/need to complicate life by using RO ?

Much much better, much much easier, much much quicker, much much less environmentally damaging to use your tap water. Generally plants and fish do not care about your water parameters, just add dechlorinator to tap water (warm it first ?) and you are good to go. I have very very hard water and have no issues with fish breeding (like rabbits !!!) and plants growing like mad.


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## DutchMuch (20 Jun 2019)

ian_m said:


> Why do you want/need to complicate life by using RO ?


Few reasons:
The customizability options for water params (a little bit)
my water is liquid rock, or should i say, liquid asteroid, so having RO would allow me to grow a wider variety of plants, like i used to do before i moved here. (Even water lilies have a very hard time growing in this water, water lilies... think of that...) 

And in the future if i do sw i will have the RO system on hand


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## DutchMuch (20 Jun 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> If EI dosing you should be able to comprehensively cover all bases on nutrition and have softer water without resorting to remineralising products


This is a very cool piece of advice, thank you, i tend to do EI in all my scapes so i will definitely look into this


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## ian_m (20 Jun 2019)

Plants don't care about water hardness, though some fish don't spawn if water is hard, but generally water hardness makes no difference, especially in planted tank.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/high-cec-with-hard-water-pointless.38582/#post-418921


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## Zeus. (20 Jun 2019)

Like Dutch I am also tempted to try the RO/tap water mix because of my hard water also for two main reasons.

1. The pH of my tank even with a pH drop over 1.0pH only just makes 7.0pH and DC is yellow so been using Fe DPTA /EDDHA to keep the iron in solution and available to the plants 

2. The CEC properties of the AS can be mopped up with hardwater with the excessive ions available which effectively block the exchange properties, so the older the tank a good WC and fert regime is more critical as the buffering of AS is blocked by strong ionic bonding with the excessive ions in hard water.

@dw1305 has mentioned this loss of AS CEC properties with hard water over time.( On mobile phone so links a PITA) but in softer water the extra H+ ions free up the sites on AS and it's CEC keeps working.

Then what I seen at Green Aqua who remin RO water and the success some get with soft water I am tempted to try it.

But all my tanks have hard water and most of the plants look great it's just  a few I struggle with and softer water may just enable or make it easier

Just playing devils advocate OFC


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## DutchMuch (20 Jun 2019)

Zeus. said:


> 1. The pH of my tank


this is another reason i left out, my pH is above 8+ which as a far as my test can go, another reason i think ill invest in this system.


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## DutchMuch (20 Jun 2019)

Zeus. said:


> But all my tanks have hard water and most of the plants look great it's just a few I struggle with and softer water may just enable or make it easier


i laughed when i read this, due to how ironic it is to my situation:
over the years i have scaped, the only scapes i succeeded in doing relatively well with beautiful thriving plantings were in acidic/soft water! i think it is funny that you are dealing with the opposite, having a hard water tanks in stunning condition as is. I just simply struggle a lot with this as every plant that touches my water, with in my normal high tech setups but just in liquid rock params, all die no matter what eventually. Unless they are aquatic weeds of course haha! very funny


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## alanchown (20 Aug 2019)

I have London tap water, and bought an RO unit last week on a whim, and I can never resist a gizmo. However, although I have only just started reducing my TDS (tank was reading 450, now about 350) since the weekend. It may be my imagination, but my Cardinal Tetras seem to have coloured up enormously. Intending to get to 50:50 RO/Tap over a few weeks.


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## Edvet (20 Aug 2019)

In general i cut 50/50 with tap, sometimes to breed in go 90%.
In my large tank i add 100% RO to combat evaporation, but i do large waterchanges with just regular tapwater ( throw in the garden hose and let it run a few hours)


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## alanchown (20 Aug 2019)

I do a 50% water change (~100L) weekly and also fill straight from hose- so haven't quite figured out how I'm going to get my 50L of RO in without hurting my back!


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## soggybongo (20 Aug 2019)

I use 100% and remineralize using James web site method.
This way I know what is and isn't in my water. Your lucky if you are informed about pre planned water pipework maintenance nevermind emergency pipe maintenance/ repairs where I live and once that work has been done they'll flush with chemicals to clean the pipework. No doubt on the day you carry out a water change. Once bitten twice shy.


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## jaypeecee (12 Sep 2019)

Hi DutchMuch,

I use Tropic Marin _Re-Mineral Tropic_ (RMT) but they also have other re-mineralizers for cichlids, etc. Have been using RMT for a good few years. Tropic Marin's technical support is pretty good too.

JPC


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## Georgez (13 Sep 2019)

Using this product

https://dennerle.com/en/products/aq...ning/osmosis-water-treatment/osmose-remineral


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## dw1305 (13 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 





Edvet said:


> In general i cut 50/50 with tap, sometimes to breed in go 90%.


Same for me. I have a good quality hard tap supply and I use rain-water, so the conductivity of the rain-water is a bit more variable than it would be if I used RO.

I don't add a standard amount of tap water, I just keep the tanks within <"a conductivity range">.





soggybongo said:


> I use 100% and remineralize using James web site method.


If I didn't have a hard water supply (~18 dKH/dGH) out of the tap, I would use <"James' Planted Tank"> mix.

I probably would tweak it a little bit by leaving out the calcium sulphate (CaSO4.2H2O) and using potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), rather than potassium carbonate (K2CO3)*. I would add more potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) to give a bit more dKH. I'd approx. double the amount of calcium chloride (CaCl2.2H2O). 

*I've just looked on a well known auction site and potassium carbonate is widely available and similarly priced to potassium bicarbonate, so you could use either. 

The advantage of this is, mainly, that you can buy all the required chemical cheaply and easily as "food grade".

From the <"linked web page">:
dKH: *1dKH = 21.8 ppm HCO3-* and dGH *= 1dGH = 7.143 ppm Ca++*

You can use the <"Rotala Butterfly nutrient calculator"> to check your results.

I won't put in all the calculations, but you would use exactly the same procedure for the other compounds. You probably won't need this, but the process in "the calculation bit" allows you to work out the elements supplied for any compound. It is useful if you have a chemical not included in the <"Rotala Butterfly database">.

*The calculation bit*
This is calculation for CaCl2.2H2O (so just supplying Ca++ and dGH).

You need to know the RAM of calcium (Ca) etc. I use a <"web periodic table">,  so that gives us all the RAM values: Ca = 40, Cl = 35.5, H= 1 & O = 16






We then need to add these values together to give us the RMM of CaCl.2H2O, so 40 + (35.5*2) + (1*4) + (16*2) = 40 + 71 + 4 + 32 = *147*
and the percentage of calcium 40/147 ~ 27% Ca++.
*
Therefore if we add 10g of CaCl2.2H2O we've added 2.7g of calcium (Ca++)*

I'm going to assume we have 100 litres of RO water and that 1dGH is 7 ppm of Ca (just to make the maths. a bit easier to follow).

Then we need to convert from <"grams to ppm">.  So 100 litres weighs 100 Kg, there are 1000g in 1 Kg and 100,000 g in 100 litres (easier in scientific notation (powers of 10) 10^2 x 100^3 = 10^5).

If we add 10g of CaCl2.2H2O (2.8g of calcium) to our 100 litres, we've added approx. 28 ppm Ca++.  28/7 = 4 and ~ *4 dGH.
*
cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (13 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 
This is the Rotala butterfly result.



 
cheers Darrel


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## dw1305 (13 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 





Georgez said:


> Using this product
> 
> https://dennerle.com/en/products/aq...ning/osmosis-water-treatment/osmose-remineral


There isn't any thing wrong with it, but that one has a lot of sodium (Na) in it. 

Companies tell you all sorts of things about being suitable for all tanks, and that fish need sodium for <"osmotic balance">, but I can't get past the point that sodium chloride (NaCl) is the cheapest salt you can buy, and makes a great cheap filler.  

My guess would be that every house has some table salt that they could add, if they want to add sodium (Na). I know that table salt contains added iodine (I), and that the anti-caking agent may be sodium hexacyanoferrate (E535), but that isn't going to cause any problems.  

I don't know if it is available to you, but <"Seachem Equilibrium"> might be a better option if you want an "off the shelf" product. 

Personally I'm not going to buy anything where I could DIY it really easily for <"1/10 of the price">. 

cheers Darrel


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## alanchown (18 Sep 2019)

I have an RO unit and in my main 200l tank I cut 50/50 with tap water and all is good. I recently bought a 57l flex which is planted but currently has no fish. My tap water has a TDS of around 350. I thought I may keep Chilli Rasbora. Just for the hell of I thought I'd try using Seachem Equilibrium. I added as per instructions, and this is where I think I have gone wrong, added alkaline and acid buffers. The TDS is over 300, so not much different to tap.
I dose DIY EI from Aquarium Plant food.

Do the buffers add significantly to the TDS? Do I need them?

I know cutting with tap is easier and cheaper, but thought I'd have a play whilst I have no fish.

Alan


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## dw1305 (18 Sep 2019)

Hi all, 





alanchown said:


> I added as per instructions, and this is where I think I have gone wrong, added alkaline and acid buffers.The TDS is over 300, so not much different to tap......Do the buffers add significantly to the TDS?


The rise in TDS is due to the both the "Seachem Equilibrium" and the buffers. Any compound that dissolves causes a rise in conductivity (TDS). 





alanchown said:


> Do I need them?


No, you don't. 





alanchown said:


> I dose DIY EI from Aquarium Plant food.


You don't need the Equilibrium either. 





alanchown said:


> I know cutting with tap is easier and cheaper, but thought I'd have a play whilst I have no fish.


I think that is a good idea, get acceptable plant growth and find a <"conductivity (TDS) datum">, once your happy with the plants you can add the fish. If you want a dash of dGH/dKH you can just add some tap water to your RO, if you want a more regulated approach you can use the formulae to create your own custom mix. 

Personally I'd try 90:10 RO:tap and see what the TDS value looks like, you definitely don't need more than 50ppm TDS from the tap (this has added Ca++ and HCO3- ions). Everything else you need is in the EI mix.  

Have a look at <"Oh Wise ones - Is My Rising TDS.....">. 

cheers Darrel


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## Geoffrey Rea (18 Sep 2019)

alanchown said:


> Do the buffers add significantly to the TDS? Do I need them?



Personally, I don’t bother. TDS is about the same where I live and recently started up a tank with 50/50 RO and tap. Everything you add will only increase the total dissolved solids so you’re losing the benefit from using RO to some extent. If your concern is TDS that is. I know it remains a sore point on most forums but there’s very few instances in my experience where you need to bother with RO at all let alone shelling out on products for buffering.

Beat me to it @dw1305  Listen to Darrel, it’s good advice.


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## Edvet (19 Sep 2019)

You don't need buffers, waterchanges are better. Buffers will effect hardness  as will the EI salts.


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## JMorgan (4 Nov 2019)

OK I'll chip in because I used to use remineralised RO on some tanks before I down sized the "fish room" - I still have the gear because I like having the option, but I typically use tap on my two larger tanks and a tap and RO mix on my two smaller tanks. I'll also top off the larger tanks with RO occasionally. Depending on various things like TDS and duckweed index, if I've added an unusual amount more ferts I'll refill with a mix of tap and RO simultaneously until the TDS is about right. It really doesn't have to be precise - just ball park.
I generally find if I keep my TDS to under 150ppm critters and plants are happy, but this probably has as much to do with what they're used to, than being anything to do with what they actually need. In other words I'm sure they'd all adapt to my tap at around 350 to 400ppm, but having kept them under 150ppm for six or seven years it's what we're all used to.

I've kept a few single species tanks of apistos and corys at much lower TDS  (under 100ppm) and they've bred successfully - what I don't know is whether I'd have been equally successful breeding them without all the fussing about with RO! I've a growing suspicion (with at least some of the easier to breed species) that what I've been thinking about as being RO dependent is possibly much more to do with not using a dechlorinator, but aeration (I don't have chloramine). This is because I know certain corys and ancistrus just don't spawn if youre using a dechlorinator and also daphnia and other micro critters don't like it either, so its obviously having some effect on the fish, if unobservable directly. Talking to some old blokes who kept fish in the 60's they were saying that it wasn't unusual for species like cardinals ( _Paracheirodon axelrodi_) to breed spontaneously in community tanks, long before anybody started adding dechlorinators, but just 'aged' their water - Anyway off topic!

I have a 120L blue food safe barrel with an auto shut off valve to store the RO. This has a pump permanently plumbed in, leading through a hole in the wall to the tanks. I have the plumbing set up so I can direct tap water directly into the container or bypass it to feed the RO unit - that way I can mix and aerate. The pump is on one of those wirelessly controlled plugs so I can power it on and off through the wall. Incidentally for those contemplating using RO remember it is pretty throughly deoxygenated by the process and depending on your set up may not remove chlorine, so aerate the hell out of it.

I have previously played about with fixing extensions to the auto shut off to stop the RO unit at a given % of the volume of the barrel, but while these sort of worked it was very much a DIY bodge involving super glue, zip ties and various sizes of plastic bottle as my 'float' and it is simpler to just fill it to the desired level with tap water first and top off with RO. Of course you have to figure out what that % will be before hand.

A decent pump and a hose are all you need to avoid breaking your back and if there's one thing I've learned to invest in its avoiding carrying and lifting large volumes of water - so I pump out the old and pump in the new, unless using mains pressure or a siphon of course. The point is don't lift, pump!

I think my past adventures in DIY remineraliser were very valuable educationally, despite experience proving them to be largely unnecessary, and on that basis I'd recommend it to those interested. It certainly underlines how much markup there is on these off the shelf jobs and encapsulates IMO pretty much everything that's wrong with the aquatics 'industry', surpassed only by the shameless proceedings of those companies selling Bentonite and Montmoriliionite to shrimp keepers in 10g bags, when they extract the stuff with bulldozers to surface football pitches by the ton, probably for comparable sums!


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## jaypeecee (7 Nov 2019)

JMorgan said:


> Incidentally for those contemplating using RO remember it is pretty throughly deoxygenated by the process and depending on your set up may not remove chlorine, so aerate the hell out of it.



Hi @JMorgan 

You make an interesting comment above. I get RO from my LFS. Do you think your comments about deoxygenation and chlorine content would still apply to their RO water?

Thanks in advance.

JPC


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## JMorgan (7 Nov 2019)

I have nothing very scientific to offer, but here's how I join the dots: First of all thoroughly aerating water isn't going to hurt anything, so why not? In theory the carbon block part of an RO system should sort of the chlorine, but then there's variables such as how long ago it was changed and how much chlorine your tap or your LFS's tap water contains. Since the old school way of dechlorinating was just to let the water "age" for 24-48 hours before water changes and we know this can be accelerated by chucking in an air stone, again why not? 
In theory the chlorine in the tap should make it impossible for archaea and bacteria to colonise the RO filters, but archaea live in some of the harshest environments on earth, so until someone proves different, I'm going to assume that by the time water has passed through any filtration system, including an RO unit,  its pretty low in oxygen.
By the way, please don't confuse the notion of "aged aquarium water" where people used to think it was a good thing not to do any water changes, and 'aging the water' which is just letting the chlorine dissipate for a couple of days, without adding dechlorinator. I wish I were better organised so as to cite the breeders who mentioned they'd stopped using dechlorinator and that this had very quickly triggered spawns after months or years of getting nowhere and was the only thing they changed. I don't want to name drop least of all inaccurately! Of course with many species it seems not to make any appreciable difference, or other factors are much more critical.


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## ian_m (8 Nov 2019)

jaypeecee said:


> Do you think your comments about deoxygenation and chlorine content would still apply to their RO water?


Ideally your LFS RO water should have been tested for chlorine and ammonia, which are the two chemicals that appear in RO water when the RO unit is not optimal and/or failing. A lot of people just add small amounts to Prime to their RO water, just in case, as it saves relying on possibly unreliable test results, though technically as you are only testing for one ion in "pure water", the test result should be free from other ions interfering with the results. The one and only case a hobby grade test kit will probably be OK to use.

The chlorine in RO water comes from poor quality or old or incorrect type (de-chlor pre-filter ?) or flowing too fast carbon prefilter.

The ammonia comes from the break down products of chloramine not be removed by poor quality or old or incorrect type (de-chlor pre-filter ?) or flowing too fast carbon prefilter.


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## jaypeecee (8 Nov 2019)

JMorgan said:


> In theory the chlorine in the tap should make it impossible for archaea and bacteria to colonise the RO filters, but archaea live in some of the harshest environments on earth, so until someone proves different, I'm going to assume that by the time water has passed through any filtration system, including an RO unit,  its pretty low in oxygen.



Hi @JMorgan 

Thanks for the feedback.

I'll test my RO water for dissolved oxygen and get back to you.

JPC


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