# Making a New Fertilzer.



## GHNelson (5 Jan 2014)

Hi Crew
This is my Water Report.
NITRATE
Nitrate arises from the use of fertilizers in agriculture and may be minimised by good practices 50 mg NO3/I and appropriate controls. The standard is set well below concentrations that could be harmful.
NITRITE
Nitrite may be associated with nitrate or with the use of ammonia in water disinfection. 0.1 mg NO2/I (WTW)
The standard is set well below concentrations that could be harmful.			0.5 mg NO2/I (WSZ)
AMMONIUM May be naturally present in some waters and is not harmful.	 0.5 mg NH4/I
SULPHATE .....................................................................................................250mgSO4/I

I would like to have a bash at something different regarding using the below salts.
I have various Nitrates available plus Urea.
The water is lower in Magnesium 1 to 3 ratio to Calcium.
No Phosphate information.
PH approx 7.5
SALTS
calcium	 nitrate
magnesium nitrate
Plus the usual
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Sulphate
Potassium Phosphate
Magnesium Sulphate
Would be dosing into a 50 litre low tech...plus a smaller High Tec.
What do you think?
Cheers
hoggie


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## tim (5 Jan 2014)

Hi hoggie, are you looking to tweak your macro solution ? You don't specify where you'll be adding traces from, quite a few diy recipes on James planted tank page which I'm sure you've seen are you looking for a lower nitrogen based fert or something else entirely ?


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## GHNelson (5 Jan 2014)

Hi Tim
Trace would be dosed as normal...every Tuesday/Thursday.
I would like to reduce the Nitrogen but increase the Magnesium.
I'm open to suggestions.
Cheers
hoggie


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## tim (5 Jan 2014)

I would assume you could replace potassium nitrate with magnesium nitrate in your macro recipie and work from there I've recently tweaked my diy tpn mix from James page splitting the potassium nitrate into 3 and using potassium magnesium and calcium nitrate to make up the weight for no other reason than having the different salts  bit early to see any difference in plant health either way though.


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## GHNelson (5 Jan 2014)

Hi Tim
Going to have a go at the James DIY Tropica tpn +3
Like the idea of a all in one.
Do you think i should tweak it?
hoggie


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## tim (5 Jan 2014)

Hi hoggie, it's a good recipie IMO, I've used it for a year or so on low techs and smaller tanks, it's quite heavy on the potassium nitrate, so I figured tweaking wouldn't hurt working ok so far in my tanks for a couple of months or so, I do use ro to make it though I noticed the mix turns brown with London tap where as stays green with ro possibly due to phosphate/iron reaction which is why James adds the citric acid if I remember correctly.


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## GHNelson (5 Jan 2014)

May use Magnesium Nitrate.
Ascorbic acid i think James used, plus distilled water...500ml.


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## tim (5 Jan 2014)

Ah yes, sorry getting my vit c powder and my citric acid confused, and I call myself a chef


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## ceg4048 (19 Jan 2014)

I don't see how you are reducing the Nitrogen. Urea alone is almost 50% Nitrogen. On top of that, it decomposes into Ammonia + CO2, a Nitrogen compound that is 100 times more toxic than Nitrate could ever dream of being. Of course it undergoes NH3->NH4+ which is much less toxic at our pHs, but I don't see how being a Nitrate hater and switching to ammonium in any way resolves your desire to lower Nitrogen.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (19 Jan 2014)

Hi Clive
I didn't actually state i would be using urea....or a Nitrate hater.
It was one of the salts available for use if needed...for any Macro solution.
My mistake for adding it to the list
Thanks on the information...regarding urea toxicity.
Some plants have been reported as liking lower nitrate like Rotala Macranda...that was one of my reasons for trying a different Macro approach.
Whats your thinking on this?
Or is it all hogwash?
Cheers
hoggie


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## ceg4048 (19 Jan 2014)

It's hogwash mate. Sorry.

The thing is that Macandra and some other species have all these colors that people want to accentuate, so  a long time ago Barr suggested to restrict Nitrogen to improve the visibility of the non-green pigments. He warned however, that if you run low on N though, then you can have N starvation, which kind of defeats the purpose. Instead of fiddling around with different mixes, just dose less KNO3. Instead of the 20ppm target as listed in the guides, just drop it to 10-15ppm addition weekly and call it good. If you can confirm that your source water is high in NO3 then you can eliminate KNO3 dosing entirely. Much easier approach...

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (19 Jan 2014)

Yea i thought so.
Cheers
Clive...and welcome back.
hoggie


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## ceg4048 (20 Jan 2014)

Cheers mate. Much appreciated.

Just remember that if you lower the KNO3 significantly (like by more than 30% or so) then you might also run low on K+.
Easy to fix by just substituting with some Potassium Sulfate.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (20 Jan 2014)

Cheers Clive
I will keep a eye on the plants.
hoggie


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

Hi Crew
Decided to use tap water...and the fertilizer i made up has gone cloudy after a week.
Anyone got any clues why?
Cheers
hoggie


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## dw1305 (26 Jan 2014)

Hi all,





hogan53 said:


> Decided to use tap water...and the fertilizer i made up has gone cloudy after a week. Anyone got any clues why?


Some of the elements have come out of solution, probably as something like calcium phosphate. This has happened because of the alkaline pH of the tap water.

You can try gently heating the stock solution, it may go back into solution, although it is quite likely to precipitate out again as the solution cools.

The easiest option is to acidify the stock solution with citric acid, as long as the pH is below pH7 the phosphate (PO4---) should remain in solution. 

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

Hi Darrel
I used *0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate*
hoggie


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## dw1305 (26 Jan 2014)

Hi all,





hogan53 said:


> I used 0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid 0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate


That should keep the pH fairly low. Try heating the solution and see what happens.

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

Thing is Darrel
I made up some Micro/Trace...that's cloudy as well.


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)




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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)




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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

Looks like the bacteria that you get on new submerged wood.
The plot thickens
hoggie


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## ceg4048 (26 Jan 2014)

Hi hoggie,
				Exactly what's in this? It's not clear what mix is in. If the pH is not low enough then you get preciptates just as Darrel mentioned. Are you using RO water? If not what is the tap alkalinity? You may need to add more acid. In any case just measure the pH of the solution to see if it was dropped to around 6.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

*2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
10g Potassium Sulphate
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate*
Its just normal tapwater 500ml...PH is approx 7.6
Cheers


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## ceg4048 (26 Jan 2014)

The pH of the solution is 7.6? Sounds a bit high. the pH needs to be acidic if the chelation is to work, generally.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

Okay Clive
I will make up some fresh stuff with RO water.
Should i add these.....*0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate*
Cheers
hoggie


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## ceg4048 (26 Jan 2014)

Or just use more Vitamin C to drop the pH. Try either or both the see if the condition clears.

Cheers,


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## GHNelson (26 Jan 2014)

ceg4048 said:


> Or just use more Vitamin C to drop the pH. Try either or both the see if the condition clears.
> Cheers,


Okay will try that first.


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## dw1305 (28 Jan 2014)

Hi all, 





hogan53 said:


> Okay will try that first.


 Has it helped? in RO the small amount of acid will lower the pH, but in the tap water the carbonate buffering means that you will need to add more acid (H+ ion donor) to get the pH down. You don't need to worry about the amount of ascorbic acid you add, once diluted in the tank water it is irrelevant.  

cheers Darrel


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## GHNelson (28 Jan 2014)

Okay Darrel
Been busy....last couple of days.
Will add 1/2 teaspoon of ascorbic acid to the Macro/Micro.
Also i will sieve out the crud...and clean the bottles out in hot water....first.
Cheers
hoggie


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