# Changing substrate in established tank



## doubledee (19 Feb 2015)

Hi,

I have maintained a low tech 180l tank for about 7-8 years now.  I started with Tetra Complete capped with some silica sand from Homebase, supplemented with some root tabs and a weekly dose of fert during water changes.  I have had varying degrees of success but have always struggled to get certain plants to remain planted, which I have put down to the sand substrate so it's time for a change.  I've also struggled to grow certain plants but this could be down to the low-tech/low lights approach.  One of the main reasons for a re-scape though is duck weed.  I have been plagued with the stuff for years so it's finally time to start again.  I don't really have anywhere to put the fish for this rescape other than lots of B&Q buckets so I'm hoping this will be done the same day.

If I am sticking with low-tech and plants such as anubias, java fern, mosses and crypts, would ADA aquasoil be overkill?  This scape is going to last a few years so again, would ADA aquasoil be wasted and would it last that long?  If I stick the aquasoil in buckets, how long will it take for the ammonia to leech out so that it's safe to use?  Do you have to carry out water changes during this soaking process or can you just leave it for 3-4 weeks?  Do you still have to add ferts when using aquasoil?

My local Pets At Home stocks Tropica Plant substrate but I cannot find many people that use it, let alone pictures.  Can anyone recommend gravel/sand to cap it with?  I was thinking coarser stuff at the back for the planted area and fine sand at the front.  It needs to be cory friendly and I'm looking for a natural river look if that helps.  I like the look of some of the ADA sand, just not the price.  It looks like it would cost about the same as using aqasoil though. Is the Tropica substrate on a par with aquasoil?


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## ian_m (19 Feb 2015)

This is my escapade converting existing tank to high tech.
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/reusing-water-in-a-rescape.36133/#post-388011

My Fluval substrate came from Zooplus 4Kg for £14, and I used 3 bags in a 180l tank, and still not deep enough in places.

My backup comment is, sand under substrate stays in place far easier than other way round.


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## Edvet (19 Feb 2015)

doubledee said:


> put the fish for this rescape other than lots of B&Q buckets


 Maybe invest in a cheap childrens pool for this



 Will keep fish and plants for a few weeks easily, toss in a filter and some heating.


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## Jamie McGrath (19 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> Maybe invest in a cheap childrens pool for this
> 
> 
> Will keep fish and plants for a few weeks easily, toss in a filter and some heating.




Dose really work?


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## Jan Larsen (20 Feb 2015)

I would be cautious of a kiddie pool like that. Sure it will likely be watertight enough and all, but plasticisers might be a concern.

//Jan


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## ian_m (20 Feb 2015)

SWMBO is going to love that in the lounge whilst tank fiddling....


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## doubledee (20 Feb 2015)

Lol but I don't think the paddling pool idea is a goer. I would rather just get a small temp tank but as I said I'm aiming to do this in one day. My only stumbling block is the substrate. If I go with aquasoil, it's going to have to be soaked for weeks prior to use. Do you have to change the water when doing this or can I just leave it in the shed for a month?


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## ian_m (20 Feb 2015)

I used 40l soft buckets (£3 each from Asda) to keep the water, substrate & mess in whilst tank fiddling.


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## Rahms (21 Feb 2015)

sorry to add another reply about temporary tank and not the substrate...

a plastic storage box is a pretty good option:



 

I've seen them up to 200L and they're usually sold cheap in most supermarkets/wilko etc!

I'll keep an eye on this thread anyways because I'm also shopping for new substrate (black sand currently)


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## doubledee (26 Feb 2015)

I have purchased 3 x 9ltr bags of aquasoil Malaya and some sand for the front.  I also bought a large 40ltr flexi bucket from Tesco and have placed the aquasoil in that plus a couple of buckets.  Let the leeching begin!

"Do not wash before use".  Really? I've filled my buckets with aquasoil and some water and it's the dirtiest substrate I've ever seen!  The water quickly turned to a coffee coloured muddy mess.

I am going overseas for a couple of weeks so it's maybe going to be 3-4 weeks before I get cracking with this strip down and re-scape but judging by the colour of the water, I'm not looking forward to it!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lindy (26 Feb 2015)

I think you may have chosen the worst soil you could have for your needs! Malaya is the softest soil out of the 3 ada soils. Looking in my book of ada it says Malaya is recommended for  tanks without frequent replanting because of the softness of the soil particles. I have used Africana which is a harder than Malaya but made an almighty mess when rescaping wet. By soaking your malaya and repeatedly rinsing it you risk turning it to mush. Malaya also has the strongest ability to turn water acidic. Their test water was ph7.6 and the malaya buffered it down to 5.5.


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## doubledee (26 Feb 2015)

I was not aware of most of that, although I did read that it was recommended for tanks that will not be frequently re-scaped.  I have no intention of constantly changing it.  I will plant it and leave it at that!

I was not planning on repeatedly rinsing it but was going to get the water changed a couple of times.  Surely this is exactly the same as carrying out a water change?  Should I just leave it soaking in the same water for the next few weeks?  I could remove the fish in a fortnight when I return and then scape/plant the tank then and leave the fish in their temporary home until the ammonia has completely gone.

It's a shame that The Green Machine don't post this sort of information on their website.  When you go to the Malaya page, it states:

Ocher colour of the natural substrate in South East Asia.
Ideal for aquarium layouts that are designed to last for a long period.
There is no real mention of the differences between the three types of ADA substrates other than the colour!


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## Lindy (28 Feb 2015)

I think you will need to do lots of water changes. 



doubledee said:


> I was not planning on repeatedly rinsing it but was going to get the water changed a couple of times.


So you will fill the bucket without disturbing the substrate? When I fill a bucket with water generally whatever is in the bucket gets churned up. I guess you could fill each bucket as you would a tank.


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## doubledee (28 Feb 2015)

ldcgroomer said:


> I think you will need to do lots of water changes.
> 
> 
> So you will fill the bucket without disturbing the substrate? When I fill a bucket with water generally whatever is in the bucket gets churned up. I guess you could fill each bucket as you would a tank.


It sounds like I have wasted my money as this stuff would appear to be completely unusable.  ADA should consider improving their product information too as it mentions nothing about dropping the ph to 5.5 (which already has me worried) or that it has different nutrient content to the other soils.  It does make me think that a lot of folks, including myself has been sucked in by marketing. If this stuff is going to end up a muddy mess at every water change, then in my opinion it's unusable.

I also purchased rocks at the same time and despite asking for advice, I was sent two that are huge and far too big to fit in with my two large pieces of redmoor wood.  Hopefully they will break with a chisel!

I only hope that I have more luck when I come to ordering the plants as so far, it looks like I have made a costly mistake!


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## Lindy (28 Feb 2015)

Water changes in your tank shouldn't cause problems as you won't be emptying the tank each time. Just don't jet the water in lol..
I only saw this information as I was sent the 'book of ADA'  as my order got messed up. It has proved very interesting.


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## Lindy (28 Feb 2015)




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## Lindy (28 Feb 2015)

Why don't you tell the sellers you are not happy with the product as they didn't give you all the information you needed to make an educated choice?


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## doubledee (28 Feb 2015)

Thanks. I think I will drop the green machine an email to see what they say. I can't be the first to discover this though. ADA should be more up front with the information. A ph of 5.5 might suit my apistogramma but very little else....


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## alto (28 Feb 2015)

Not any help, but just wanted to comment that this information on the ADA soils was "out there" years ago ... maybe in an Amano interview ... trying to think of where I first saw it in print ...
Sadly it now seems to be lost at the retailer level but a shop such as TGM should certainly be mentioning this to customers or have an information sign in the aisle - if it was of US manufacture it likely would be printed on the bag, but this would be unusual for a Japanese product (whether noodles or soil )


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## doubledee (1 Mar 2015)

I'm surprised that it hasn't been made a sticky on here to be honest but I still maintain that the information should be readily available at the point of purchase whether that's a bricks n' mortar shop or website, on the packaging/instructions and also on the manufacturer's website.  Whenever I visited the ADA site over the last few days, it said that the site was more or less closed for some strange reason.  What's the point in ADA's instructions if it doesn't tell you what the product contains or what it can be used for?  Identifying the only differences as being the colour is barmy IMHO.


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## crip_tic (24 Mar 2015)

I used Tropica Plant Substrate with Fluval Shrimp Stratum on the top. About and inch of soil and half an inch of Fluval approx. 1 Year on , strong plant growth with no added ferts. My tank was sitting with the cycling bacteria added for about 8 weeks before shrimps went in. pH has stayed at 7.5 on rain water which is just below 7 usually. I didn't really seem to get an ammonia spike when I set up and no discoloured water (I added water in slowly over a saucer). I later added Purigen but didn't really need to - probably won't bother in my next tank.


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