# New pond / old stock



## idris (7 Mar 2016)

We're about to move house. 
The old house has a pond but the new owners don't want to keep it.
The new house doesn't have a pond, but I'm going to install one.

I'll be taking the pump, filter, fish and plants with us, but the new onwer has agreed it's ok to leave the fish and plants for a week untill I've got the new pond intalled. The pump and filter (and electrical distribution board) will have to be removed before then.

To what extent do I need to worry about bacterial matuarion of the new pond, considering ...
A) the filter potentially won't be running for about a week.
B) there will be plants (mostly Irises and Lillies) that will be moved at the same time as the fish, and presumably they will have mature bacteria in their root baskets?


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## zozo (7 Mar 2016)

What fish do you have? Kois and gold fish can handle a lot.. Depending on your tap water quality, if it is like mine.. They can go straight in.
The temperatures are still very low at the time, so there wont be much bacterial activity till the temp rises again. If you put the plants in inert gravel nothing much will happen. If you use new organic pond soil it all depends on sizes, how many soil on how many gallons of water.

If the plants are in pots already with soil from the old pont it probably already is matured enough and only helps getting it up and running. If all should be new and organic i would keep the plants in the new soil appart in buckets and keep the fish only in clean water and let the filter cycle till the spring time. All nutrients which go in the water now will not be used, there is nothing growing at the time.. Fish will be in slow burn mode now and stay that way till temps go up.


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## idris (14 Mar 2016)

Thanks very much. That's reassuring. 
Golden Orf, Shabunkins and small Koi. 
If the bacteria is pretty dormant at the moment, will it make any difference if the filter doesn't have water cycling through it for a week?


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## zozo (14 Mar 2016)

I guess it wont do much harm, i do not know about your region at the moment, UK i guess.. I'm in the southern part of the netherlands at the time and it's still pretty chill for the time of year. Night temp still drops bellow freezing and day temps do not exced over 10 degrees air temp in the sun. If you look at ponds in these cold conditions you'll notice most of them are totaly clear.. There aint much movement (natural circulation) of water everything lays still on the bottom.. Fish are in the deeper parts as well and barely eat, if they eat at all. 

In these conditions there aint much hoovering around in the water collum to be filtered out. Carps are about the most resilient fish in our ponds. I've seen them survive in very small shallow stagnant natural ponds in what we would describe as horrible conditions loaded with parasites (worms). Pittyfull to see but they lived on. Remarkable.

They do OK for a few days in clean good quality water without a filter in these temperaturs. Just don't throw food in the water they probably want touch it anyway and easily can do a week without. Keep an eye on the Orfs they are much more sensitive fish, they are usualy the first to perish in garden ponds if things go wrong.


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## idris (14 Mar 2016)

Thanks.


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## frederick thompson (15 Mar 2016)

Hi there. Fred here.i am building a new pond right now. You will see it in new pond. My fish are in a holding vat. With a filter pod on the system. When I look in the filter. There is next to nothing there so I suppose I could run without the filter.and I have some very large koi in there. Like zozo says with no feeding.not much mess.so not much to clean but once you start feeding. Then you may have a problem. All the best fred mine have been in the vat for 5 weeks now.


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## alto (15 Mar 2016)

I'm not a pond person so can't say the specifics of what temperatures & for how long before it's "safe" to begin feeding outdoor fish
BUT fish fed in too cold weather will generally eat the food, except digestion does not occur as normal re too cold ... fish can become quite ill (or even dead) from bacterial infection


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## alto (15 Mar 2016)

frederick thompson said:


> My fish are in a holding vat. With a filter pod on the system. When I look in the filter. There is next to nothing there so I suppose I could run without the filter.and I have some very large koi in there.


Without the filter, as fish begin to move about, low oxygen levels may become as issue - koi are much less hardy in this regard than common goldfish, also that deep body, large fish is generally less efficient to "run" than the younger, smaller, slimmer version (which may have similar gill surface area to the much bigger fish)


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## zozo (15 Mar 2016)

Yes Alto you're absolutely right.. And even if they are quit hardy still doesn't give us the right to make them suffer in any way what so ever.. No filter may be ok for some short periode of time.. But water movement to provide nessecary gass exchange is something obvious we all can provide even without a filter and only a pump and regular water changes.


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## frederick thompson (16 Mar 2016)

With my koi I feed wheat germ in winter . I don't go less then 10 degrees f. Thats me though. Some go down as far as 8 degrees. And yes it is better to have filtration. And I agree with the other two posts. Aeration is always best with filtration.  I have kept koi for 18 years now. And lost only one.and that was my own fault. I fed the koi at 10 degrees. Weather dropped right down during night.and one of my koi liver was done in. They are slow at digesting in cold weather. In warmer weather I feed them protein foods to put fat on them for the winter.  I am learning  everyday with fish keeping. This is another reason I am having a new pond build. At same time mordenise my filtration system.and pumps.to keep up with my fish growing. There realy large now.which has time goes by hopefully no bacteria and health problems for my fish . costly but worth it. Best fred


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## idris (16 Mar 2016)

When you say you have fish in a vat, what size are the fish, and the vat, and how many fish are in there!


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## frederick thompson (16 Mar 2016)

What I mean by vat I mean I mean like a large fish holding plastic tank. If you look at my pond build in ponds new pond you will see for yourself. Also some of the fish. It also tells you my fish stock and type. About 16 koi . varying from 18 to 20 inches in size I have 6 of that size.the rest are about 10 inch length. A couple of orfs.3 green tench about 8 inch. A fantail goldfish and about 15 rudd.the holding fish tank is about 14 ft length. And 3 ft wide. 3 and ahalf foot deep.with an inpool pump to easy pod filter.which will eventually go on the skimmer line on my new build. So the filter media will be very mature. For the start of my new build.some pond filters take six to eight months to mature. Mine has been maturing in that filter for 5 years now.hope this helps fred.


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## idris (16 Mar 2016)

Ah. My pond will probably be about the same sizeasyour holding tank.


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## frederick thompson (17 Mar 2016)

remember if you are keeping koi fish the rule of thumb they say is about 4 feet.for the winter climates. they go to the bottom to keep warm.deeper the warmer it is for them. my gold fish comes to the top in winter plus the rudd,but there more hardy then koi.
my last pond was 4 foot deep. my new one if you read my thread is dug to 6 foot,bottom drain with 8 inch of concrete. so it will be roughly 5 and half feet deep. it will be about 5000 gallon.its costing quite a bit of money. my advice is when you build try and double everything with koi. IE if you have 100 gal buy your pumps and filters for say 200 to 3000 gal turn over, per hour. but it is all about cost. because koi keeping is very expensive. also you need uv light for green water and weed, shade is best. because algae weed grows faster in sunlight. mine is right in the sun. so i will have to 55 watt uv lights on mine . one on skimmer line and one on bottom drain line. hope this advice helps you mate and good luck with your build. it is a great hobby.


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## frederick thompson (17 Mar 2016)

i just noticed i put 200 to 3000 gal .i made mistake there it should be 300 or 400 gal. work out your gallons. then double  it . if you can afford it go even more. reason. hen your fish grow they will produce more waste. and you will have to buy bigger pumps and filters. that's what happened with myself. i had to keep upgrading in my time of keeping fish especially koi carp i think i change my pumps and filters about four times over the years. that meant re- plumbing and ripping things out. if you can get it right first time in the long run it works out cheaper. you need to run your water gallon-age through filters at least once an hour. or one and a half hours. i forgot to add. my holding tank has aeration running into it. this is my old air pump. i have now bought 2x new one 4 times larger for the new build. one will be for bottom drain to help clean the bottom plus air for fish. and one will be for the cleaning and aeration inside my filter to breed the mature stuff in my filters. this bacteria will also feed and help clean the pond. for they also eat the waste the fish produce. hope this advice helps you pal. there are people with more knowledge then me on the science of all that then me on this site. but basically. that is how it all works. all the best fred


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## idris (17 Mar 2016)

It's not just cost that I have to consider. There are other family members that will have opinions on how much time I spend dominating the garden when I should be doing more important things.


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