# Help: Improving My Tank



## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

*THE HISTORY OF A TANK*
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*Introduction*

My plants grow very slowly and are listless; problems with browning, etc. When I first added my plants I did have the lights on for “ridiculous-hours” (and they grew very well), but I had an outbreak of staghorn algae (since then (now a few months ago) I have cut back my lights to 8 hours with 1 bulb, only); however, having said that, I added an extra hour to my timer yesterday because a few plants (that were added several weeks ago), were still struggling and wilting. I know this may be the effects of shock but I thought that one more hour would be okay to try; especially since I was planning on adding CO₂ in a few days.





































*My Technical Specification List*

*Aquarium age: *6 months

*Tank*: 4x1x1 foot (with an extra 4 inches in height; although I don't fill the water to the brim)

*Soil*: 50-50 (vermiculite and “Westland Aquatic Compost”); potassium sulfate added on start-up; capped with flint gravel. There are 3 pieces of bog-wood and 1 piece of redmoor. Aquarium sand has been added to the front of the tank for aesthetic purposes (no plants are rooted in this area).

*Filter*: Fluval 4 Plus and (an uninstalled) 3000L/H wave-maker

*Heater*: Marina 300 W

*Lighting*: 2x “Solar Tropic 38W Solar Fluorescent Tubes T8” with Arcadia reflectors; one on 8 hours a day

*KH* = 5 dKh
*GH* = 6 dGh
*TDS* = N/A

*Ammonia *= 0 ppm
*Nitrate *= 0 ppm
*Nitrite *= 0 ppm

*pH *= 7.4-7.8 [see note below]
*Temperature*: 23.5 C

*Water-changes*: every two weeks

*CO₂ *= 5 ppm (estimated via KH and pH readings) from tap

*Nutrients*: [excluding fertilised substrate on start-up (potassium sulfate)] a few root-tabs (Plants Alive) were added yesterday . That's it. Again: the tank is 6 months old. I do have an bottle of “Tetra Plantamin Fertiliser” that I was going to open.

*Estimated nightly pH swing*: 0.4 pH [see note below]

_[NOTE (re: pH readings): I actually think that my pH swing is 0 and that I've been, albeit in a consistent manner, incorrectly reading my tests (until recently). When I recognised that I was casting a shadow from the test-tube onto the card, I realised that I'd been trying to mentally compensate for what I thought was a slight printing error in the manufacturing of the test card (or, I thought, the sun-bleaching of the card). I think my true pH is 7.8 and there is a 0 pH swing]_

*Fish, etc.*: 6 Amano Shrimp, 1 Blue Shrimp, 1 Cherry Fire Shrimp, 1 Green Shrimp; 2 Golden Pencil Fish, 5 Leopard Danio, 6 “Galaxy Rasbora”, 5 Threadfin Rainbow, 1 Lemon Tetra , 1 Red Sword, 4 White Cloud Mountain Minnow, 1 Golden Cloud Mountain Minnow, 1 Penguin Tetra; a few Assassin Snails.

*Other*: I slightly overfeed my fish so that my Amano Shrimps get some food (there wasn't enough food reaching the bottom of the tank and the shrimps started to eat my plants (see bald stems in the pictures above) (a cory also died)). I changed my water yesterday: it was my first ever weekly-change since cycling my tank.

*My Plan to Improve Things, a Summary*

I have a low-tech tank and I am in the process of transitioning to a high(er)-tech aquarium to make my plants grow bushy and look better. In the future I may consider changing my plants (currently all low-light-level plants) but for now I just want improved plant health and plant growth. The plan (provisional) that I have is to slowly raise my carbon dioxide levels from my estimated starting point of 5 ppm up towards 15-20 ppm, over the period of a month. I will (at the same time) add a general plant fertiliser for aquariums, as directed (possibly _TNC Complete _or _TNC Lite_); in the future I may also consider adding a form of liquid carbon (dilute glutaraldehyd). I don't think I'll need the full 30 ppm that everyone talks about and, moreover, I'm concerned that if I were to add 30 ppm that the levels of CO₂ would cause a large pH swing and end up killing my fish overnight. Finally, I was going to start raising the light level (about a week after I plan to start adding CO₂)...and when things seem good, stop, and stabilise the system at that point.

I have just bought some new equipment (to be fitted): 1x “Premium Complete Aquarium CO2 System for tank up to 500L - GB / 16/22mm - up to 500L / Standard Drop Checker [http://www.CO2art.co.uk/products/premium-complete-aquarium-CO2-system-for-tank-up-to-500l] and 1x “World Class Advance Precision Needle Valve by SMC with Check Valve”.

I am considering buying a canister filter and an external heater but I do not know which ones to buy (possibly: “Hydor External Aquarium Heater Eth 16mm Hose, 300 Watt” and the “Fluval 406 External Filter for aquariums up to 400L”). I will also add my wave-maker to increase the internal flow of water inside my tank.

*Questions*

*Nutrients*

I'm still unsure about what nutrients I should be adding to my tank and, to be honest, it all seems very complicated: the idea of learning the science behind this seems to be too troublesome and risky for me. Is there a good (generalised and reasonably priced) micro-nutrient and macro-nutrient fertiliser that I could dose? I don't mind doing daily (even alternating) dosing, but I'd like to have someone just tell me to "dose this product in this amount on this day" and then "dose that product, in that amount, the other day"; ideally I would like to use one product and dose just once a week: is this possible and what are the consequences if I do?

*Miscellaneous*


How should I increase my light levels relative to my CO₂? Is there a way to roughly correlate them: say, so many bubbles of CO₂ per hour of light? I'm trying to avoid shocking my fish as well as an algae bloom.
Have I risked an algae bloom by increasing my lights by 1 hour yesterday; should I stop and wait for my CO₂, etc.?
Should I consider adding liquid carbon (dilute glutaraldehyd) from the start?
Am I right in thinking that adding liquid carbon will help prevent an algae bloom in the transitional period?
Should I buy a CO₂ reactor?
Is the _Hydor External Aquarium Heater _a good choice for my aquarium?
I've heard nightmare stories about the _Hydor External Aquarium Heater _leaking or "boiling" fish. Are these concerns well-founded?
How do you "overfeed the fish" to feed amano shrimp (without risking an algae bloom or their eating my plants in a fit of starvation); particularly in regard to my proposed system? Am I being too cautious? Should I remove one or two of them?
*Conclusions*

I was hoping you could help me with the conclusion: do you see any problems with my plan?





Thank you for your help,

I look forward to your replies,

Eugine.


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## PARAGUAY (21 Feb 2015)

Your enthusiastic and its  infectious Eugine I almost feel guilty as though I should be water changing or setting up another tank or something Seriously have a good look at the tutorials UKAP and threads here,Q&A at Aqua Essentials,anything about aquascaping in Practical Fishkeeping all sound information.Come back with the questions as we all  do.Just quickly though some of your plants fall into the easy category and looked well initially? Could have crashed -lack of nutrients, Tropica Premium a good starting point.Nutrients is simple science if your plants dont get them they suffer as indicates in the photos.Algae problem check lighting -maybe less light,maybe on to long.CO2 gather information on the above.


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> Your enthusiastic and its  infectious Eugine I almost feel guilty as though I should be water changing or setting up another tank or something Seriously have a good look at the tutorials UKAP here,Q&A at Aqua Essentials,anything about aquascaping in Practical Fishkeeping all sound information.Come back with the questions others will give better advice and be more knowledgeable than myself.Just quickly though some of your plants fall into the easy category and looked well initially? Could have crashed -lack of nutrients, Tropica Premium a good starting point



I did read the tutorials: that's how I now know I'm out of my depth. I'm trying my best but I just don't have the experience to identify problems and correct for them. I'm hoping that someone will be so kind as to hold my hand through this crucial stage. I lack confidence.


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## Julian (21 Feb 2015)

1. CO2 stability will determine the photoperiod. Surface agitation determines CO2 stability. There is no way to correlate them in the manner you suggest as there are too many variables in every tank.
2. Yes.
3. Won't hurt.
4. Liquid carbon is an algaecide, so yes.
5. If you can afford one.
6. Yes, just keep it clean (once every few months, make sure it's on the output of the filter)
7. All heaters break, especially without proper maintenance. For every horror story there are a hundred successes.
8. Lots of water changes.

Don't see any problems with your plan.


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## tam (21 Feb 2015)

It's pretty daunting reading everything when you start 

I would leave your lights where they are for now, that's rarely the issue with plant growth but can definitely lead to algae. I would guess your plants grew well initially because of the fresh soil rather than the higher lights.

Regularly adding a liquid fertilizer should help - particularly if you don't currently have much nitrate. There are a few brands and you can either get the macro and micro separate or an all-in-one option. Tropica do Premium (micros) or Specilised (Both), or you can get pre-mixed EI as a liquid from places like: http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/liquid-fertiliser/apfuk.html or https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/product-category/aquarium-plant-food/

You could also add some liquid carbon, again it keeps things quite simple and you just add the specified amount of liquid per day along with the ferts.

I'd expect that would sort you out. Keep in mind the plants you have won't repair bad leaves so you'll need to do a bit of trimming to get things looking good once you start the new routine.

If you wanted to go high tech, that's more complicated. It might be worth trying things simple to start with and then if that goes well for you then try out high tech. 

For your shrimp... I'd suggest some sinking food - go for algae pellets that are too big for the fish to swallow and the shrimps will get a chance to run off with them


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## Rahms (21 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I did read the tutorials: that's how I now know I'm out of my depth. I'm trying my best but I just don't have the experience to identify problems and correct for them. I'm hoping that someone will be so kind as to hold my hand through this crucial stage. I lack confidence.



I'm also a beginner but might as well try and give you some basics. Its all about balancing CO2 light and nutrients.  Light to a plant is like exercise for a muscle: it damages the plant, but the plant can regrow/repair if there is sufficient CO2 and nutrients. From what I've gathered, its unlikely an 8 hour light period will ever be considered too short: if theyre struggling theyre being damaged faster than they can repair, and adding more light wont help.

Your plants look like theyre melting, which is likely a CO2 distribution issue.  You want them to have excess CO2 and nutrients and be light limited, rather than excess light (hello algae and melt).

Adding CO2 will of course help but your light isnt exactly a behemoth, so it shouldn't be a requirement. Chances are your distribution is poor. Consensus seems to be that a spray bar running the length of your tank is the best option, aimed horizontally at the front piece of glass so that it cascades down and creates a nice swirl. You need a filter capable of providing adequate flow for that though. Might be worth installing that pump of yours near to the filter outflow (in the same direction) to beef it up.

As for nutrients, read the EI dosing guide and buy the starter kit from aquariumplantfood, then just dose and forget about it


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

Julian said:


> 1. CO2 stability will determine the photoperiod. Surface agitation determines CO2 stability. There is no way to correlate them in the manner you suggest as there are too many variables in every tank.
> 2. Yes.
> 3. Won't hurt.
> 4. Liquid carbon is an algaecide, so yes.
> ...



I'll change the timer back right now, Rahms. Where you said "make sure it's on the output of the filter"; you mean, inspect it to see if it's still attached properly?

Oh, I'll go back and edit the original post to add this question, but, question 9: Is the "Fluval 406 External Filter for aquariums up to 400L" a suitable filter for my plan?

Also, and suggestions of a good carbon reactor?

Thanks for your help,

Eugine


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## PARAGUAY (21 Feb 2015)

The general consensus for planted tanks is 10 times tank volume a hour,so its this what is important not what a filter is deemed up to,however Fluval are a good filter to have and a powerhead could be added if required,the 10 times is less important for low tech non CO2 set ups


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> There are a few brands and you can either get the macro and micro separate or an all-in-one option.



I went for _APFUK Simply (Ei) _(micro and macro); also bought some liquid carbon.



Rahms said:


> or you can get pre-mixed EI as a liquid from places like: http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/liquid-fertiliser/apfuk.html or https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/product-category/aquarium-plant-food/



Thanks.


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> The general consensus for planted tanks is 10 times tank volume a hour,so its this what is important not what a filter is deemed up to,however Fluval are a good filter to have and a powerhead could be added if required,the 10 times is less important for low tech non CO2 set ups



I read that in the tutorial but, in the same tutorial, the gentleman (I think he was a guy) finally decided to go for a much smaller pump. I'm confused....and a little concerned for the fish.

My wave-maker is rated 2500 LPH.


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## tam (21 Feb 2015)

Fish waste/food and sometimes tap water provides some of the macros so if you've got a well stocked tank (lots of pooping going on) and low-medium amount of plants (not too much demand), and you are running low tech you might not need to add extra. If you have them separate you can adjust the proportion of macro/micro to factor that in e.g. dose micro twice but macro once. Gives you a bit more control if you want it.

The fact you're reading very low nitrate suggests to me that you'll need some sort of macro - so either the the TNC complete (both macro & micro) or separate bottles so you can add both.

Personally, I'd probably go for the complete plus a bottle of carbon and try those for a month, see how it does before changing anything else. From what I've noticed the plants react quickly so if that works you should see healthy new growth pretty quick.


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

tam said:


> Fish waste/food and sometimes tap water provides some of the macros so if you've got a well stocked tank (lots of pooping going on) and low-medium amount of plants (not too much demand), and you are running low tech you might not need to add extra. If you have them separate you can adjust the proportion of macro/micro to factor that in e.g. dose micro twice but macro once. Gives you a bit more control if you want it.
> 
> The fact you're reading very low nitrate suggests to me that you'll need some sort of macro - so either the the TNC complete (both macro & micro) or separate bottles so you can add both.
> 
> Personally, I'd probably go for the complete plus a bottle of carbon and try those for a month, see how it does before changing anything else. From what I've noticed the plants react quickly so if that works you should see healthy new growth pretty quick.



That's pretty much what I did: bought the fertilisers (although I bought them separately (_APFUK Simply (Ei))_ with some liquid carbon; going to give it a month before I start to do anything else, I think; however, I've CO₂ arriving on Monday (it'll just have to be for show, for a while). What a shame.

Thanks tam!


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## Julian (21 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I'll change the timer back right now, Rahms. Where you said "make sure it's on the output of the filter"



If it's on the intake, unfiltered debris will build up inside it. This is what leads to malfunctions. If it's on the output, the water is cleaner, debris takes longer to build up.


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

Julian said:


> If it's on the intake, unfiltered debris will build up inside it. This is what leads to malfunctions. If it's on the output, the water is cleaner, debris takes longer to build up.



Clever thinking. Thanks.

I've a 300 Watt heater at the moment and I have to turn it down as far as it can go; I'm thinking of going for the
_Hydor ETH 200 In-Line External Heater 200w 1/2 hose _instead of the 300 W version. I've never used an external heater so I don't know how the power relates to the number of litres it can heat. The manufacturer says 100-180 l, so I should be better with the 200 W version.


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## Edvet (21 Feb 2015)

Just my 2 €cts:
You don't need to go "high tech" to grow plants large and healthy, all that can be done in low tech too.
2x 38W T8 sounds like lowish light, so using one will defenitly be low light. You should be able to make it work with 2 T8. Just start with 6 hours  and if that is stable you can add till about 8 hours
Vermiculite? Never heard that as substrate,isn't that very light? Basically you can work with any substrate, depending on how much money you want to spend, from cheap riversand to expensive Amazonia. You might research soil based  tank, where there is a layer of soil (mineralised or not) under the gravel, but it is not vital.
To grow plants need energy (light),carbon, macro nutriens (N,P, K) and micronutrients (Fe etc). The available energy is the motor, but in order to run smoothly it needs the other components too. If there is unbalance the algea will adept faster and win the race. Energy, macro and micro nutrients are easiest to give in abundance, Carbon is the difficult child. Plants need it not only to grow, but it protects them too.
Seeing carbon is the difficult one it is wise to make your tank dependent of how many available carbon there is. Low tech tanks can do with the carbon with is ready in  the tank through diffusion from the outside and through production in the tank/soil/filter.
Adding carbon in the form of chemical fluids or pressurized gas will allow more light and faster grow, but the other ferts have to be available in order not to let the tank spin out of control.
Sadly it is difficult to measure all those values, especially all the tests available in your average shop are realy useless. They will however provide you with false information and stear you in many wrong directions. So please loose them. Now........... Run to your stach and throw them in the bin..................yeah now.......................
So now you got rid of them lets do some basics.
In your case you can still stay low tech, just you have to add ferts.
To make this easy EI was "invented", Just chuck in plenty of everything and have only C be the limiting factor. Don't be afraid, ferts dont cause algea, they are around everywhere and always anyway, bad plantgrowth causes algea. Bad not meaning slow, but bad meaning damaged growth, leaves dying, leaking all kind of nasties etc etc.
If you are daunted by all the info, i would certainly advise you to go low tech. There you have more time to react to mistakes, It's easier to keep a bycicle on the road then a F1 car.
In a low tech filtering is less critical, waterchanges are less critical, general growth is slower, so no need to prune all the time, and almost all plants you want can be grown low tech (realy).
You talk about a external cannister filter. This will work fine, and as a bonus you will have less clutter in the tank. The filter you have now can work too, you might need to clean it a bit faster because it has a smaller volume.
As an added note: guestimating CO2 through that table is not correct either, so forget you have 5 ppm CO2.
About ferts: you can add low dosis ferts with the EI method easily, the forum sponsors have good starter sets with easy instructions, and remember ferts don't cause algea.
About heaters: a simple in tank one is good enough, i don't like inline or in cannister heaters, but that's my preference
About Carbon: adding carbon doesn't prevent algea! Adding carbon allows more light to be safely added thus increasing growthspeed, but also increasing the risc of getting things wrong.

About your tank: why not fill all the way?
Not sure how your substrate is, or if it needs change, but i would start to add ferts (ei method, do app 1/5 of the high tech dose), and if possible use 2 tubes for 6 hours, See how the plants react. Remove as much damaged leaves as possible, and do 2 waterchanges per week for app 10-20%. After 2/3 weeks you should be able to see wether the plants are doing better. If you get a lot of algae drop 1 light and use that for 6 hours. Remember it all goes a bit slower in low light.

Should you want to go the CO2 route, i would advise a pH measuring pen in order to see if you get the CO2 working in good order. An hourly measurement will give far better information than any table or dropchecker. But again if i where you i would start the low tech route first.


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## EnderUK (21 Feb 2015)

Your lighting is fine for a low tech tank, what you seem to be suffering from is lack of nutrients such as Potassium, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. Those large holes in your plants aren't your shrimp eating them. It's your plants starving and dying which the shrimp then eat the decaying leaves. You don't need to feed your shrimp, there's enough food in your tank for them to eat even though you can't see it, overfeeding can lead to fish health problems as well as general tank problems.

Liquid carbon won't do any harm, I would probably recommend in over CO2 injection with your light levels. There's a good tutorial about liquid CO2 here. You've bought your CO2 kit though so you can use that as well. I would recommend an external filter just to remove the internal filter from the view. You don't have to buy an Hydor heater, if you get the growth right you can simply hide the heater in your tank with plants 

Perhaps get some fast growing stem plants to fill in the back. The stem plants I would probably trim down, plant the tips in clumps of 3-4 and keep trimming as they start to grow to get them bushy. I would personally remove any of the dying leaves to try to encourage new leaf growth rather than the plant wasting energy in the dying leaves, this guide here. You can save this tank so don't panic.


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## EnderUK (21 Feb 2015)

haha Edvet beat me to it.


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## Eugine Thomas (21 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> About your tank: why not fill all the way?



I like to see the waterline: it's just a "thing".



Edvet said:


> Vermiculite? Never heard that as substrate,isn't that very light?



It's a long story: lightens the soil and allows for a deeper substrate to be planted; helps with rooting and the storage of nutrients, etc. Gardeners use it all the time when potting plants.



Edvet said:


> Just my 2 €cts:
> You don't need to go "high tech" to grow plants large and healthy, all that can be done in low tech too.
> 2x 38W T8 sounds like lowish light, so using one will defenitly be low light. You should be able to make it work with 2 T8. Just start with 6 hours  and if that is stable you can add till about 8 hours
> Vermiculite? Never heard that as substrate,isn't that very light? Basically you can work with any substrate, depending on how much money you want to spend, from cheap riversand to expensive Amazonia. You might research soil based  tank, where there is a layer of soil (mineralised or not) under the gravel, but it is not vital.
> ...



I've bought _APFUK Simply (Ei) _(both micro and macro); also bought some liquid carbon. I was going to dose as the manufacturer's instructions say: is that what I should do, or should I scale _those _measurements down 1/5?

Thanks for the help!


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

I want to stabilise my aquarium as a low-tech tank first? Get myself up and running with both light bulbs? I'm a bit scared of light as the last time I had both lights on I had to deal with staghorn (I could only deal with it by dropping the lights). I have to confess (please don't tell anyone): I had them both on for sixteen hours...then I dropped them both to fourteen hours (didn't work); then I gave up and went for one bulb on for eight hours. I've been in the box ever since.

What about this?

*Week 1*


Dose micro-nutrients (as manufacturer's instructions)


Dose macro-nutrients (as manufacturer's instructions)


Dose liquid carbon (as manufacturer's instructions)
*Week 2*



Start to increase my lights (any suggestions about how fast?)


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

EnderUK said:


> There's a good tutorial about liquid CO2 here.



I keep seeing "SeaChem Equilibrium" being mentioned. What is it and why do people use it?

+ Calicum?
+Magnesium?

Why?


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## tam (22 Feb 2015)

Vermiculite floats so not great for in a fish tank


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

tam said:


> Vermiculite floats so not great for in a fish tank



Not in my tank: look at the pictures. It's 50-50 (vermiculite and aquatic soil). When vermiculite is saturate with water it does not float: if you soak it in very hot water it'll all sink in a few days...then you can mix it up with the soil and fertiliser as you please.


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## EnderUK (22 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I keep seeing "SeaChem Equilibrium" being mentioned. What is it and why do people use it?
> 
> + Calicum?
> +Magnesium?
> ...


 
It's for remineralising Rain or RO water it does this by mixing in a load of salts including Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sulfates and trace elements which is good for planted tanks. It's a bit on the expensive side there are cheaper products, dosing EI salts + calcium is probably the cheapest method.

You can run 2 bulbs just lower the length of time they are on, maybe start with 4 hours only and every 4 weeks increase the time by an hour till you get it to about 8 hours. I run my low tech tank and high tech tank at 6 hours. Using liquid carbon with your low lighting you might get away by using a little less of the _APFUK Simply (Ei)._ I would maybe start at full dosage 2 times a week for both macro and micros, 50%-60% water change once a week. The good thing about a low light tank is you'll have time to react to problems as they won't be as instantaneous, if you still seeing plant plant Deficiencies then you can increase the amount of ferts.


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

EnderUK said:


> It's for remineralising Rain or RO water it does this by mixing in a load of salts including Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, Sulfates and trace elements which is good for planted tanks. It's a bit on the expensive side there are cheaper products, dosing EI salts + calcium is probably the cheapest method.



Okay. I'm using tap water so I'll not need to add this to my water. I couldn't work out if _SeaChem Equilibrium _was a part of the _EI _dosing routine or whether people were adding something additional for an additional reason: the latter. Thank you.



EnderUK said:


> You can run 2 bulbs just lower the length of time they are on, maybe start with 4 hours only and every 4 weeks increase the time by an hour till you get it to about 8 hours. I run my low tech tank and high tech tank at 6 hours. Using liquid carbon with your low lighting you might get away by using a little less of the APFUK Simply (Ei). I would maybe start at full dosage 2 times a week for both macro and micros, 50%-60% water change once a week. The good thing about a low light tank is you'll have time to react to problems as they won't be as instantaneous, if you still seeing plant plant Deficiencies then you can increase the amount of ferts.



Great news. Thanks.

Incidentally: (putting aside the other issues) if I were to update my tank to a high-tech tank, what would I be looking at buying in terms of lights? Does having low-lights (with every other parameter high-tech (_EI _fertilisation, CO₂, etc.) just mean that your plants would grow slower or does it affect other parameters, too?


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## Rahms (22 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Incidentally: (putting aside the other issues) if I were to update my tank to a high-tech tank, what would I be looking at buying in terms of lights? Does having low-lights (with every other parameter high-tech (_EI _fertilisation, CO₂, etc.) just mean that your plants would grow slower or does it affect other parameters, too?



There's a certain amount of grey area in the definition. Personally I'd consider your tank high tech once pressurised CO2 has been added.  Upgrading your lights isnt really a technological advancement, its just... more.

If you have low light but good CO2/nutrients you'll have very happy plants which grow slowly.  And potentially they'll grow a bit taller rather than bushier, as they seek more intense light. Not sure what you mean by other parameters! Having low light wont effect your CO2/nutrients, aside from reducing the amount plants use.


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> Not sure what you mean by other parameters!



I was just covering my bases.




Rahms said:


> If you have low light but good CO2/nutrients you'll have very happy plants which grow slowly.



Why don't more people do this, then? I can understand why a plant manufacturer would require the plants to grow as fast as possible (more plants to sell and in a shorter manufacture time) but, if you can have plants that are just as beautiful but growing slower, why would the average aquarist want to trim plants every week? This may be a sensitive cultural question but what would you say is the difference between an aquarist and an aquascaper? I don't think I'm an aquascaper (although I want lovely and healthy plants): I probably care more about watching fish (than plants?)...and, also, if it makes a difference, I only want one tank. I hope I haven't stepped on toes, here: eek.

Regards,

Eugine


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## dw1305 (22 Feb 2015)

Hi all, 





Eugine Thomas said:


> but, if you can have plants that are just as beautiful but growing slower, why would the average aquarist want to trim plants every week?


 A man after my own heart, I've often pondered the same question. 

You don't have to have quick growth, if you look at Tom's threads <"Bucket o' mud"> & <"Poco pozo">

My philosophy is here: <"http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/mineralising-soil-substrate.16405/#post-171669"> & <"http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/unlimited-nutrients-using-e-i.27825/page-2#post-291043">

cheers Darrel


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

PARAGUAY said:


> The general consensus for planted tanks is 10 times tank volume a hour,so its this what is important not what a filter is deemed up to,however Fluval are a good filter to have and a powerhead could be added if required,the 10 times is less important for low tech non CO2 set ups



I think you're saying that I should buy the _Hagen Fluval Fx5 _(it processes ten times my tank volume an hour)_, _instead: if the high turnover of water were to cause a tsunami in my tank, is there a way to reduce the flow-rate? Is there a "volume knob" on this thing? Could you reduce it to 1/10 of its flow-rate if required? Would adding spray bars significantly reduce the pressure? By how much?

I watched a few videos of people reviewing this filter: they were using it on much bigger tanks (the volume of water coming from the outlet was very large).


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## Eugine Thomas (22 Feb 2015)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,  A man after my own heart, I've often pondered the same question.
> 
> You don't have to have quick growth, if you look at Tom's threads <"Bucket o' mud"> & <"Poco pozo">
> 
> ...



I'm going to read over those articles in a second, but can I ask you a sensitive question first? Is a high-tech planted aquarium not, in its extreme form, more accurately (possibly not historically, but in general practice), the application of industrial manufacturing processes to home settings. Is this a "boy-racer" culture?


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## Rahms (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I'm going to read over those articles in a second, but can I ask you a sensitive question first? Is a high-tech planted aquarium not, in its extreme form, more accurately (possibly not historically, but in general practice), the application of industrial manufacturing processes to home settings. Is this a "boy-racer" culture?



well I'm not sure boy-racer is the right term. It's certainly min-maxing, but I think most people do it for their own enjoyment rather than looking good.  I think the boy-racer equivalent would be monsterfishkeepers.com !

As for why people don't all use low light.  Well... A lot of the enjoyment is in the dynamic nature of an aquarium. It's nice to watch things transform, rather than having a 3D screensaver (granted, that screensaver is unique and interactive!).


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> I think the boy-racer equivalent would be monsterfishkeepers.com !



That place is a world within a world!



Rahms said:


> As for why people don't all use low light.  Well... A lot of the enjoyment is in the dynamic nature of an aquarium. It's nice to watch things transform, rather than having a 3D screensaver (granted, that screensaver is unique and interactive!).



I just couldn't work out if people were adding extra light for the fun of seeing plants grow fast ("turbo-charging" things) or whether the plants actually needed high-light it to grow beautifully: the plants need minerals and carbon dioxide to grow beautifully; they need extra (more than 2 WPG) to grow fast, right?

Are there any plants that will only grow in very-high light?

Also: can anyone post some pictures of aquariums that have been grown with supplemented carbon dioxide and _EI _dosing (but _low _light)? I would be interested to see what people have created?


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## Edvet (23 Feb 2015)

The 10x an hour is for "high tech tanks" , low tech tanks can do wel in 2-3 times per hour


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> The 10x an hour is for "high tech tanks" , low tech tanks can do wel in 2-3 times per hour



I understand, but: is that not a high volume of water? How do fish survive in a high-tech aquarium?


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Are there any plants that will only grow in very-high light?


No. All plants grow in light, its just that some "thrive" better in higher light & CO2 & ferts than others. Some people have grown HC carpets in so called "low light", takes ages to grow and is susceptible to algae, but it grows.



Eugine Thomas said:


> Also: can anyone post some pictures of aquariums that have been grown with supplemented carbon dioxide and EI dosing (but low light)? I would be interested to see what people have created?


There won't be any. There is no point wasting injecting CO2 and EI when running at low light, the plants can't make use of the extra CO2 and ferts in "lower light" levels, so no point doing it.

My mate runs a "low tech",  "low light" tank, a single T5 tube, shaded a bit with "foil rings" and doses liquid carbon & 1/4 dose EI ferts once a week, or when ever he can be bothered. Plants grow, even the Glosso I gave him, all algae free, but just grows slowly, painfully slowly in my eyes used to a high tech tank. He is happy, low maintenance tank.



Eugine Thomas said:


> understand, but: is that not a high volume of water? How do fish survive in a high-tech aquarium?


I have a 180litre tank with 1400l/hr JBLe1501, internal Juwel filter @ 600l/hr and 3200l/hr power head (total 5200l/hr, nearly x30 rate) and fish are fine. They swim in the flow, find lower flow bits to swim in. How do you think fish in rivers survive ?

As my grandma used to say "You are wasting your worries on things that aren't a worry".

Worry about CO2 levels and distribution, all other things aren't a worry or a problem.


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## Edvet (23 Feb 2015)

Lots af fish live in , at least a large part of the year, flowing water. The film footage in nature is often in slow flowing parts with clear water. Sadly these parts are hard to find, hence the lesser amount of documentation of wild living fresh water fish. If you look at the series The Fish guys, by Ivan Mikoljii, you will notice they are always trying to find clear water to film in and find it rarely, even sometimes it's only there part of the season. Much of their film shows more or less flowing water.


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

DOUBLE POST (see below).


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

DOUBLE-DOUBLE POST (see below).


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> There won't be any. There is no point wasting injecting CO2 and EI when running at low light, the plants can't make use of the extra CO2 and ferts in "lower light" levels, so no point doing it.
> My mate runs a "low tech", "low light" tank, a single T5 tube, shaded a bit with "foil rings" and doses liquid carbon & 1/4 dose EI ferts once a week, or when ever he can be bothered. Plants grow, even the Glosso I gave him, all algae free, but just grows slowly, painfully slowly in my eyes used to a high tech tank. He is happy, low maintenance tank.



Why is there no middle-ground between high-tech and low-tech? What if I were to use two _T8_s (both switched on for sixteen hours a day), with (slightly reduced) _EI _dosing and (slightly reduced) CO₂? It only costs £20 a year for dry fertilisers, and CO₂, at moderate levels of say 20 ppm, will only cost me about £30 a year: £50 a year isn't much. I don't mind the cost.



ian_m said:


> I have a 180litre tank with 1400l/hr JBLe1501, internal Juwel filter @ 600l/hr and 3200l/hr power head (total 5200l/hr, nearly x30 rate) and fish are fine. They swim in the flow, find lower flow bits to swim in. How do you think fish in rivers survive ?
> 
> As my grandma used to say "You are wasting your worries on things that aren't a worry".



I'll take your word: I might just get the _Fluval FX6 _and be done with my dilly-dallying.


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## EnderUK (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Also: can anyone post some pictures of aquariums that have been grown with supplemented carbon dioxide and _EI _dosing (but _low _light)? I would be interested to see what people have created?


 

The Learning from my Mistakes: Low Light - Dirt Tank - Winging IT is about my attempts to do CO2 inject low light tank, it's a bit outdate now. The reason why you won't see many tanks like this as it has the down side of a slower growth of a low light tank (all though it is a little quicker when injecting CO2) and it has the down side of a high tech tank requiring high maintance, 60% weekly water changes, daily dosing. The plants that seem to do best in this tank are the rosette (broad leaf type), I really struggle with stem plants.

The benifits over a high tech tank is that I have a large margin of error. I can forget to dose for a few days, I can see if problems start to build up. I can and have reduced the amount of ferts and CO2 and I can easily slow everything down. When I want rapid growth I can increase the par levels of lightin the tank by adding reflectors making it a medium light tank.

When I can't be bothered with maintence in the summer I can slow everything down. I take the reflectors out of the twin T5NO tubes I reduce the co2 levels slowly over a month making it low tech.

This really has been a on going experiment with lots of failures and changes but I'm starting to refine it. I probably won't do dirt again as I'm finding it very messy.


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Why is there no middle-ground between high-tech and low-tech


There is, you can roll your own CO2 and ferts dosing but how you determine it is working and levels are correct is very hard, as when you get algae and dead plants it is all too late. You will not have access to the laboratory grade test equipment to measure ferts and CO2, thus cannot determine your uptakes, thus you can't determine your required dosing, your required CO2 levels, frequency of water changes etc etc all getting very difficult for something that has been devised to be simple.

EI was all devised to keep it simple, no need to accurately measure salts, just bung it in, guaranteed enough ferts for the plants regardless of light level. Done.

As for CO2 set to 30ppm, enough for most "high" light levels and fish. Done.

All you control is light intensity (read from data sheet) and how long for. Done.

EI and 30ppm CO2 will cope with a range of light levels, I started with just T8's moving to T5's and still dose and use same level CO2.

So in summary, you can roll your own fert dosing and CO2 dosing, but I absolutely guarantee you will have issues. Been there done that, got the T-shirt and the corresponding algae.

If you really insist on going it alone, which from your posts I suspect you will, you can mix your own drop checker solution using less the 4dKH strength solution (add distilled to 4kDH) so that it goes green/yellow at 20ppm rather than 30ppm. Also use only 0.7pH drop if doing it via pH dropping. You can obviously dose less than EI doses, but again how much...who knows. And again you can have lower light levels, but without a PAR meter to measure the levels...who knows.


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> All you control is light intensity (read from data sheet) and how long for. Done.



What data sheet? I missed that one! Eek.



ian_m said:


> There is, you can roll your own CO2 and ferts dosing but how you determine it is working and levels are correct is very hard, as when you get algae and dead plants it is all too late. You will not have access to the laboratory grade test equipment to measure ferts and CO2, thus cannot determine your uptakes, thus you can't determine your required dosing, your required CO2 levels, frequency of water changes etc etc all getting very difficult for something that has been devised to be simple.
> 
> EI was all devised to keep it simple, no need to accurately measure salts, just bung it in, guaranteed enough ferts for the plants regardless of light level. Done.
> 
> ...



Okay; so I stick to the book and play it safe. What will I get from two _T8_s (with reflectors) that are switched on for 16 hours?


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> What will I get from two T8s (with reflectors) that are switched on for 16 hours?


Algae at that length of time.....

When I first went high tech I had two T8 (total 50W over 180l) on for 4 hours and twisted the reflectors round to lower the tank light levels and still got diatoms and some algae all symptoms of too much light for CO2 level. Slowly over first couple of months turned reflectors back to increase light level (and get CO2 right via inline diffuser) and suffered no more algae. Moved to T5 tubes after about 2 years and did get algae due to jump increase in light, forgot all about lowering light by not fitting reflectors etc , but did start runing for 4 hours only. All sorted now and under control, nearly 3 years later, can cope with lights on for 6 hours or more. CO2 delivery mastery took most of that time.


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## Another Phil (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I understand, but: is that not a high volume of water? How do fish survive in a high-tech aquarium?


 Hi Eugene,
Coincidentally I measured how long it took bits of flake to flow along my tank last night (guessed/calculated rather than measured), and with my 4x volume turnover per hour my flow speed at substrate level is only about 250m/hr, obviously faster in front of the spraybar, but a lot less than I was expecting, and if an outdoor stream I'd take that as being almost still (and would make for a very slow game of Pooh sticks)..
cheers phil


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> Algae at that length of time.....



Ehh? I don't understand: if I'm dosing Ei properly, 30 pp of carbon dioxide, etc., how can I have algae with low-lights? I though people were using 5 WPG for 8 hours or so, right? My lights would be switched on for double what most people would have them switched on for, but, on average, I'd only being putting 2/5 of the energy in at any given time, so, what's that, roughly, let's say "4 WPG-equivalent", right? I'm confused (again): this is fun.



ian_m said:


> When I first went high tech I had two T8 (total 50W over 180l) on for 4 hours and twisted the reflectors round to lower the tank light levels and still got diatoms and some algae all symptoms of too much light for CO2 level. Slowly over first couple of months turned reflectors back to increase light level (and get CO2 right via inline diffuser) and suffered no more algae.



Did you not just say that there's no point in adding carbon dioxide and following _EI _dosing if you have low-lights: is four hours of light from _T8_s not classed as low-light?


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## Edvet (23 Feb 2015)

2 WPG is considerered in the high light realm already.
16 hours is a very long time and would only be sustainable in a very low light tank, plants will be using up the nutrients and run into trouble. Most tanks run in the region of 6-8 hours.





This is the table we point to mostly, lightoutput is measured in PAR mostly nowadays, just interpret your lights and distance


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Another Phil said:


> Hi Eugene,
> Coincidentally I measured how long it took bits of flake to flow along my tank last night (guessed/calculated rather than measured), and with my 4x volume turnover per hour my flow speed at substrate level is only about 250m/hr, obviously faster in front of the spraybar, but a lot less than I was expecting, and if an outdoor stream I'd take that as being almost still (and would make for a very slow game of Pooh sticks)..
> cheers phil



Yeah, I guess so; just looks like a-hell-of-a-lot when it comes out of the hose like that...like a horse, if you know what I mean. I'm still holding my credit card back from buying the _FX-6: _so unbelievably scared.


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Edvet said:


> 2 WPG is considerered in the high light realm already.
> 16 hours is a very long time and would only be sustainable in a very low light tank, plants will be using up the nutrients and run into trouble. Most tanks run in the region of 6-8 hours.



I was told that 1-2 WPG was low-light and that 3-5 WPG was high-light: so I've enough juice in the system? 

...well how do people manage to use all 5 WPG on a high-tech tank (without algae)? Do they dose nutrients twice a day; leave their lights on for three or four hours, only; what about CO₂?


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> is four hours of light from T8s not classed as low-light?


No depends on height.

The chart below from http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774 is a rough handy guide to light level. Notice it only has T8 with no reflector, so T8 with reflector (double maybe) is moving into medium light at least.


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> ...well how do people manage to use all 5 WPG on a high-tech tank (without algae)? Do they dose nutrients twice a day; leave their lights on for three or four hours, only; what about CO₂?


No they have taken months and months to get their tank running algae free at those light levels. They dose standard EI and 30ppm CO2. I think Tom Barr even runs at lower CO2 levels and quite high light.

If you just place a plant from a low light tank (or from the shop) straight into these light levels, it will instantly melt away as its chemical processes are not adjusted to cope with the increased light levels. Same as if you move the other way high light to low light it will melt away.

This is all the "high tech tank documentation" about bringing the light levels up slowly so the plant can adjust to its new light levels. As I said when I moved T8 to T5 tubes, despite lowering light on time to only 4hours, I suffered algae and plant melting as the plants got vaporised by the massive increase in light, despite CO2 & ferts being spot on. Now the plants have adjusted, I have the light on 8 hours and plants are monsterously growing no (significant) algae.

It took me nearly 3 years to get to this stage....


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## Wallace (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> I'm still holding my credit card back from buying the _FX-6: _so unbelievably scared.



Just a quick note before you go ahead and click on the buy button, if you have a Maidenhead Aquatics near you they should price match any price on the net. This is what I done when I bought my FX6, and it only cost me £194.99, saving me between £35-£50 depending on where you looked. That was a price match to Amazon. 

Also, you can buy a Tetratec EX2400 spraybar kit and that will fit the pipework of the FX6. That is what I have done for my 5 x 2 x 2ft tank and the flow is very good. 

That should give you something to think about, oh yeah and the FX6 is an amazing filter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> No depends on height.
> 
> The chart below from http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105774 is a rough handy guide to light level. Notice it only has T8 with no reflector, so T8 with reflector (double maybe) is moving into medium light at least.



Yeah, I'd say mid-medium; just short of high-light (it's 15 inches from where my lights are to the top of the substrate). I think that if I were to leave one light on (with a reflector) for 16 hours I probably be just inside the high-light zone; switch the other light on for 8 hours (with the reflector), and I'd be scraping the roof. I don't think I need new lights; however, I really like the idea of having my lights on all day rather than just for eight hours. I'd rather switch off a bulb and dim the remaining light (rather than have two bulbs on for a shorter time): more hours to look at my fish.

Thanks!


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> No they have taken months and months to get their tank running algae free at those light levels. They dose standard EI and 30ppm CO2. I think Tom Barr even runs at lower CO2 levels and quite high light.
> 
> If you just place a plant from a low light tank (or from the shop) straight into these light levels, it will instantly melt away as its chemical processes are not adjusted to cope with the increased light levels. Same as if you move the other way high light to low light it will melt away.
> 
> This is all the "high tech tank documentation" about bringing the light levels up slowly so the plant can adjust to its new light levels. As I said when I moved T8 to T5 tubes, despite lowering light on time to only 4hours, I suffered algae and plant melting as the plants got vaporised by the massive increase in light, despite CO2 & ferts being spot on. Now the plants have adjusted, I have the light on 8 hours and plants are monsterously growing no (significant) algae.



Wow. It's like the "bends"? So how do people add new plants to such a tank? I guess they don't: they'll have to get the planting right first time around, right?


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Wallace said:


> That was a price match to Amazon.



Why didn't you just buy it through Amazon? Customer service (or lack of)?



Wallace said:


> Also, you can buy a Tetratec EX2400 spraybar kit and that will fit the pipework of the FX6.



Is there any chance you could give me the diameter of the piping (I'll need to drill a few holes in my lid because there's no way the piping will fit inside the inlet/outlet holes that the lid was designed for)?




Wallace said:


> Also, you can buy a Tetratec EX2400 spraybar kit and that will fit the pipework of the FX6.



Cheers; that's very handy. Thanks.



Wallace said:


> That is what I have done for my 5 x 2 x 2ft tank



My tank is only 150 l!


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> It took me nearly 3 years to get to this stage....



I guess that time's including your "mistake time", too? Yes? Trials and errors?

So how slowly do you increase the light? How long would it take a pro to get things up and running from scratch?


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## Wallace (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Why didn't you just buy it through Amazon? Customer service (or lack of)?



Delivery charge and time, and as I was going to MA anyway it made sense. Also it's easier to go to a bricks and mortar store to sort out any problems if the filter was faulty etc





Eugine Thomas said:


> Is there any chance you could give me the diameter of the piping (I'll need to drill a few holes in my lid because there's no way the piping will fit inside the inlet/outlet holes that the lid was designed for)?



The pipework is 25mm



Eugine Thomas said:


> My tank is only 150 l!



Ooops I misread the dimensions as 4 x 2 x 2. You can always turn the filter down if need be. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

EnderUK said:


> This really has been a on going experiment with lots of failures and changes but I'm starting to refine it.



I'm so glad I have the opportunity to learn from other people's mistakes/challenges, as you say: I would have had absolutely no chance of being successful without the help of people like you. It may be hard to accept but I already can't remember a time before I was a member of this forum: the old days just don't make sense to my brain any more.


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Wallace said:


> The pipework is 25mm



It'll be tight, but I can make that work. Cheers!




Wallace said:


> Also it's easier to go to a bricks and mortar store to sort out any problems if the filter was faulty etc



Amen.



Wallace said:


> You can always turn the filter down if need be.



How much can the filter be turned down?


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> So how do people add new plants to such a tank? I guess they don't: they'll have to get the planting right first time around, right


Correct. Either shade them a bit, get them from better suppliers whose plants appear to cope or do as I do, reduce light after planting for first week or two and trim the occasional melted bits. After then its back to full power T5 for 5-6hours, yellow drop checker, auto dosed EI and weekly water changes.



Eugine Thomas said:


> I guess that time's including your "mistake time", too? Yes? Trials and errors


Mostly by being 100% convinced that I did not have a CO2 leak and all my plant & algae issues were due to something else. CO2 is very very hard to get right, but in the end regardless of all the equipment the plants are the best indicator. The "Pros" as you keep calling them, generally due to experience, and kit they love and know, get the CO2 levels and distribution correct from day one. Once CO2 rate and distribution is cracked, plant grow like crazy and completely algae free (actually not true, got some spots of green on front glass as not done a water change to 2 weeks due to being busy).



Eugine Thomas said:


> So how slowly do you increase the light? How long would it take a pro to get things up and running from scratch?


You buy lights that are dimmable (eg TMC tiles), so you start them on say 15% for first week or two, then start ramping up. Remember most of the most wonderful photos taken on this site are taken with lights on 100% (and equipment removed from the tank) just for the photo. Typically day to day may only run at 50% light or less. You dim your T8 lights, by rotating the reflector around to block the light or put darkened plastic sheet in the way or put foil strips around the tubes and generally start at say 4hours a day and ramp up hours (and remove blocks) over first couple of months allowing plants to adjust.


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## Wallace (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> How much can the filter be turned down?



I couldn't tell you to be honest, I had mine running at about 60% (judging by the notches on the valves) for about a month after setting the tank up as my fish didn't like the strong flow, and slowly increased it 10% ( 1 notch ) week on week. 

What this notches equate to in LPH I honestly don't know as I didn't measure it. At a guess I'd say each notch on the valves loosely represents 300-350 LPH judging by Fluval claiming 3500 LPH flow. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

ian_m said:


> After then its back to full power T5 for 5-6hours, yellow drop checker, auto dosed EI and weekly water changes.



Geez, you've got it down! So confident. 




ian_m said:


> You buy lights that are dimmable (eg TMC tiles), so you start them on say 15% for first week or two, then start ramping up.



I don't have a dimmer switch: could I get away with slowly extending the time my lights are on with my digital timer? I know it's a bit laborious, but could I, let's say, turn on the second bulb at 12 noon for 15 minutes, and then slowly extend that period by 15 minutes a day, each day, until I reach wherever I need to be?


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## Eugine Thomas (23 Feb 2015)

Wallace said:


> At a guess I'd say each notch on the valves loosely represents 300-350 LPH judging by Fluval claiming 3500 LPH flow.



I'm running an old _Fluval 4 Plus _that's (just checked) supposed to push 1000 LPH when new; that'll mean the _FX6 _will be three and a half times more powerful...that's not as much as I thought. I thought the _FX6 _filter was going to be ten times as powerful as the filter I'm using right now. No wonder I thought everyone was crazy; that'd be like running three _FX6s _on my tank!

I'm just looking at a spreadsheet of flow-rate compared to manufactures' recommended tank size and sometimes there's almost no correlation between the two.

Interpet PF4, maximum pump output per hour = 1000 l, maximum tank size = 182 l 
[5.46 litres of (maximum) water pumped per litre of "recommended maximum tank volume"]

Eheim Pick Up Filter Range (2012), maximum pump output per hour = 570 l, maximum tank size = 200 l
[2.85 litres of (maximum) water pumped per litre of "recommended maximum tank volume"]

That's almost double!

SOURCE: http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/pi-intf.htm


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## Rahms (23 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Yeah, I'd say mid-medium; just short of high-light (it's 15 inches from where my lights are to the top of the substrate). I think that if I were to leave one light on (with a reflector) for 16 hours I probably be just inside the high-light zone;
> 
> Thanks!



Would be nice if someone more experienced could address this: I've always understood the notion of low/medium/high light to be intensity based (i.e. Wattage), not total energy (i.e. wattage x time). The idea of a T8 providing high light by being left on longer doesn't sit right with me, but I'm not sure why (or whether its correct)!

also when I look at the graph I see a T8 bulb 15inches from the substrate giving ~15 PAR. Even assuming the reflector doubles your PAR, two tubes would be 60 PAR which is firmly in the medium light range.


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## tekopikin (23 Feb 2015)

Hi,

I think everyone here has touched on most of the problems you raised. 

I just wanted to touch on the algae issue you had and suggest (if you haven't) that you add Malaysian trumpet snails (MTS) to your tank; these snails will make short work of some algae. They are also good for the general welfare of your tank and do not breed out of control, most of all and most importantly they will not eat your plants. You may see them on the leaves but rest assured they won't destroy them, they also take care of the problem of overfeeding.  They're basically a clean up crew.

I have used this method for years now along with two assassin snails to keep the population of my MTS in check . 

You'll find out that it's the low-tech solutions that keep algae at bay. I'm not sure if everyone here will agree with me but it did and still works for me.

I wish you all the best.


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## ian_m (23 Feb 2015)

Rahms said:


> Would be nice if someone more experienced could address this: I've always understood the notion of low/medium/high light to be intensity based (i.e. Wattage), not total energy (i.e. wattage x time). The idea of a T8 providing high light by being left on longer doesn't sit right with me, but I'm not sure why (or whether its correct)!


You are right time is never mentioned in high light/low light discussion and leaving a light on longer doesn't make a tank high light.

In my experience having the light on too long (10-12 hours, when I had T8 tubes), as well as costing more CO2, can lead to algae. I suspect/maybe it is due to ferts depletion, CO2 getting lower towards end of lighting period or even algae managing to adapt. This is where the 4-8hours on time idea probably comes from.


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## Eugine Thomas (24 Feb 2015)

Eugine Thomas said:


> Also: can anyone post some pictures of aquariums that have been grown with supplemented carbon dioxide and _EI _dosing (but _low _light)? I would be interested to see what people have created?



I don't know if anyone else is interested, but just thought I would post this from _Tropical Fish Forums_: "Low light high tech?" (http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=51790)



> Low light Hi-tech is probably a method which is going to be most popular in the future. Why? Because most of people want nice and long lasting (low maintenance, less work) scapes. Such aquarium will need up to 3 month to look mature, but once matured will last like that for 7-8 month (carpet plants).



SOURCE: http://www.aquahobby.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=51790

It's a shame the link to the photo is broken/old.


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