# collecting wild uk fish



## Kezzab

Does anyone know where you stand legally in terms of collecting wild uk fish? Just for 'personal use' so to speak. Thinking minnows, loaches, bullheads. Not salmon. It's pretty hard to spot anything relevant on .GOV.UK.


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## splatteredbrainz

I mean get a fishing license and go for it... not sure how y'all do it over there but here in the States we're issued fish/game licenses respectively. Obviously you can't take anything endangered or "threatened" but native fish keeping is definitely growing here. It's totally legal. From an ethical standpoint it's never recommended to ever return a native fish to the wild after being kept in the home aquarium as the possibility of introducing new contagions to the native populations. Releasing any fish in the wild is almost always illegal here

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## mort

As far as I'm aware it's the same as for sea animals in that you are fine as long as it isn't endangered and it's for your own use. I'm not sure what a baliff would say if you were caught catching them without a licence but a quick email to the environment agency might help.


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## Kezzab

i might email the EA, don't want to be told I'm not allowed though


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## Kezzab

i think if you do catch them its ok to rerelease them as long as its into exactly the same location as they were caught.


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## zozo

In my country fish need to be of a certain size (age) before they are alowed to be taken.. This obviously has to do with sexual maturity and preservation.
When it comes to a fish tank in almost all cases the fish will be to big. For example the Minnows which are not on the red list must be at least 30 cm. Anything smaller should be released back. 

Now only catching a 30 cm minnow by itslef is already a challange if not a rarety in many occasions. 

You can find the minimal sizes online.. Educated guess UK has simmular Flora-Fauna laws..

Next best option is buy them if possible..

I always wanted a big tank with a few baby pikes.. But it unfortunately would be against the law to house a few smaller than 45cm. And they are nowhere for sale.

So if you do things like this be carefull with showing off pics online..  You'll likely get ratted out and fined.


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## Kezzab

ill look out for rats!


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## mort

Since you can buy minnows I wouldn't be overly worried about being ratted out. I also find it hard to believe that you wouldn't be allowed to take them home for personal use because you could catch and eat them if you wanted with a licence. I know people who would just use them for bait. Saying that, the unique way in which this world works, common sense probably doesn't apply and its a hanging offence.

The issue with them however is they prefer cool, highly oxygenated water and keeping it in the right temp range might be the issue. There are other similar species which might work better like rainbow shiners (stunning little fish).


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## geoffbark

Hope this helps 

https://www.gov.uk/freshwater-rod-fishing-rules/fish-size-and-catch-limits


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## splatteredbrainz

There are diseases that only exist in aquaria as long as fish taken from nature never return and vice versa. Both ecosystems have enough strain on them as it is without further meddling. If a native fish is taken it should be with the understanding that it's being taken forever

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## splatteredbrainz

Having said that I want a trout tank

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## splatteredbrainz

So far all I've got is the pump. It's gonna have to be outside due to the size and whitewater conditions I intend on replicating. I've seen some amazing German systems I wanna copy



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## zozo

It highly depends on country and region, you realy should know these laws and what is allowed and what not.. Some fish are commercialy cultivated and for sale as pond fish.. Without knowing these regulation, than you might as well be doing something illegal. Those fines for poaching or keeping illegal animals can be rather spicy. I somebody with a Grass Snake in his terrarium, i know these are protected and illegal to keep in captivity. I do not know if he brags about his snake on forums, it wouldn't be very smart thing to do.. 

While in Germany i'm not sure if this law is still in use, lately heard it was changed, But till that time it was obliged to kill all fish you catch. it was illegal to release a wounded fish back to nature. I remember the times that Germans never were very welcome at Dutch fisherman clubs and ponds. They were so used to that custom, they killed all they catched everywhere they came and take it home, eat it or feed to dogs, cats and or pigs with it. 

In Germany there even is a law against keeping to large fish in Nano tanks.. I remember an interview with professional aquascaper Jurijs Mit S. He was asked the question "what are the best fish for nano tanks. He pointed to that law and in respect of it as professional was reluctant to publicaly answer the question. And he didn't.


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## PARAGUAY

I suppose in the UK many habitats streams,ponds have disappeared due to development, I know of locations culverted were loaches and bullheads once thrived in crystal clear water,so maybe leave alone.Probably a huge challenge to attempt to keep them in domestic aquariums anyway


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## castle

There a byelaws to adhere to; where I am, I can take fish (with limitations) and as someone whom eats fish, I do - trout mainly. If we all took fish for the table though.. there wouldn't be any fish left I don't think.

The only fish really suited to a aquarium in the uk imo are 3 spined stickle back, (Gasterosteus aculeatus), and they need space. a group really should be in a 6ft plus tank, and even then, i would recommend only one male. Smaller tanks are okay just to observer breeding behaviour but never to house long term. A lot die in those tanks in science departments in schools. 

Bulheads, or miller thumbs need highly oxygenated water, and if you ever do catch one it will be from very turbulent/fast flowly rocky water. I thought they were protected, but they are not. They don't grow massive, and they might do well in an aquairum, but it's the kind of fish that is best left in the river (I guess we could say that about all fish).

Minnows (Phoxinus phoxinus) do survive, but highly susceptible to stress - needs a very mature tank, high numbers (so again, a big aquarium) and always treat them for parasites.

If you can get a young one, a Perch will do very well for a long time, but they get big and as one of my favourite course fish, I'd rather you left it in the river. That said, a Ruffe (Gymnocephalus cernua) would do fine I think. I have caught them in all sorts of water, and they're an invasive species in US.

If you're wanting a loach, only the Stone Loach isn't a protected species; you can get these from some lfs.

You do not need a fishing licence to fish with a small net (you know butterfly nets kids use), but there are obvious things, i.e don't start using throwing nets. You will be fined, heavily.


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## Kezzab

Thanks Castle, I've emailed the EA to provide clarification. It's just a thought at the moment, not a plan. 

As you say, i think there some irony in many of us merrily stocking wild caught fish from half way around the world then getting fussy about doing it in your own back yard. I'm not saying either is right, but it should makes us stop and think.


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## castle

Yeah, this is a difficult thing, but I feel the same way with most fish we see in pet shops that I think should have been left in their home waters (rays,knifes,bass,plecs,catfish,puffers and plenty more). The key thing here is size, if you had a 5000 litre tank, then by all means go get a perch, but don't if you can't cater for it. Perch are shoalers when young, but when they're old they become loners and dislike their own kind. Just using this as an example.

As UK waters just don't have any fish that really can thrive in home aquariums I would prefer them left in the river! I suspect as stated some would do fine, but overall the diversity isn't there.

i kept loads of fish as a kid from our rivers with varying success - Roach and Gudgeon lasted months. In the pond they lasted years.


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## zozo

Where i live it is pretty simple.. To go fishing in ponds, lakes and or rivers ect. you need a permit. On the permit is specified wich equipment is permited. It says 1 rod, a landing net and a life net, which bait not to use and which hooks (trident) not to use..With the permit comes a small booklet, in this the fish are specified, minimal sizes etc. If you catch a fish bellow this size you are obliged to release it immediately it's not allowed to hold them in the life net. And as said, the minimum size for a Rud is 30cm, Tench is 25cm. If the patrolman checks your permit, he'll obviously checks your life net. Anything out of the order as obviously using equipment not listed on the permit is illegal (example 2 rods, undersized fish in the net) considerd poaching. Paoching is considered a very serious felony, as far as i know in about every country in this world, hence a century ago you could get shot or hanged for it.

Fishing with more then 1 rods needs a special permit and often another permit from the land owner or club. In many cases of which there are extra rules on top of the regular ones to keep in respect.

Next to that, if you would do it all within the given regulations and catch your own fish. Before you are home with it, they are damaged and extremely stressed from hooking, dragging out of the water, holding in a life net for x hours and than dragging them home. I guess you would be extremely lukcy if only a few survive this ordeal for longer than a week.

Than it would be much more convinient for the fish and yourself to visit a pond shop and buy comercialy captive bred fish sp. Trout, Tench, Rud, Perch, Minnows etc. except a few they about all are, if not directly available for sale always available by special order.. And than you are not obliged to respect minimum sizes.


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## dean

But if you use a net like hundreds of kids do surely there's no need for a licence 

Where would you go to catch them ? 


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## Kezzab

@dean i dont think catching them is the issue, it's whether you can then remove them from the catch site, keep them, then reintroduce them at a later date. As you can see from posts above it seems in some countries that would be banned. Here in uk its not clear. The river lowther is quite near my house and is fed from the same reservoir as my tap water, so water parameter would presumably be similar, assuming the water company doesn't do that much before it comes out my tap.


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## castle

In England, we have a pretty standard system, multiple licences for children, more than 2 rods, disabled, 65 years + (I think), and salmon and sea trout licences. Regions do have by-laws, which are relatively easy to research/find. 

With fishing, unless using flies/baits out of season, it's tricky to do much wrong with a licence. Don't take fish you aren't allowed to (not that many have protection, but size restrictions are imposed + by-laws), no more rods than allocated and that's about it.

A fishing licence only covers fishing with rod and line; using special nets (crayfish traps/ throw nets) will require special permission, and or licence from the EA. 

From my knowledge fishing with a hand net is legal, all year round. But I'm trying to clarify this as I'm now curious. 



Kezzab said:


> @dean i dont think catching them is the issue, it's whether you can then remove them from the catch site, keep them, then reintroduce them at a later date. As you can see from posts above it seems in some countries that would be banned. Here in uk its not clear.



It's very clear, it's illegal. You need written permission from EA to do this


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## zozo

It always was a little vague evrywhere i guess.. There are i guess in every country strickt inveronmental laws to protect wild life or flora and fauna. It is just who do you meet while you are doing it.. Most cops likely wont even know nor care much, tho they should know and care but its not directly their field of concern to take a guy with a net and a bucket for a ride. I never saw a cop controlling any park.. But if you get caught by a park ranger, than it will be a different story.. They know all about it and love a chance to preach and tell you all about it. In my country it is even forbidden to go into the woods and gather branches of wood to put in the stove. Or take plants home.. I'm not even allowed to go off the path into the bushes. I did and collected me some ferns from the woods, in my backpack, they are still in my garden.. .. And i know if the park ranger caught me, straying off the path and also diggin out ferns  i could buy a ton of ferns for the cost of the fine i would have got. They don;t care for arguments "there are hundreds of ferns, nobody misses the 3 i dug out."

I guess there is some grey area, but it is just that inveronmental protection became an hotter issue the last decades.. And it is just that you realy need to know what and where you are going. And as a grown up man standing at the water front waving a net around.. Is standing a bit in the spot light..

I remeber a day when i wash fishing completely legal.. And a grumpy park ranger came by and he started nagging about that i stood with my bare feed knee deep in the water and pointed to a shield stating "No swimming allowed"  But what do you do then? Just say sorry Sir.  Go out and demonstratively put back on your boots.


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## dean

If fishing with one of those kids nets is illegal then why are they sold and why aren't there more kids in prison 



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## Kezzab

@castle I've no reason to doubt that you are right about it being illegal. But i can't see anything in the EA documents linked to earlier in this thread, or anywhere else on line that explicitly states this, or even partially address the issue. Do you have a definitive source for this guidance? It would be good to put the thread to bed


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## Kezzab

And I think ill leave them in the river anyway...


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## Kezzab

Where's the Freshwater equivalent of this https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supply-aquariums-and-zoos-with-marine-species ?


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## geoffbark

Kezzab said:


> Where's the Freshwater equivalent of this https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supply-aquariums-and-zoos-with-marine-species ?




try this

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/permission-to-move-live-fish-to-or-from-a-fishery


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## castle

Kezzab said:


> @castle I've no reason to doubt that you are right about it being illegal. But i can't see anything in the EA documents linked to earlier in this thread, or anywhere else on line that explicitly states this, or even partially address the issue. Do you have a definitive source for this guidance? It would be good to put the thread to bed



Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975

PART V ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT ...

30. A person shall be guilty of an offence if he introduces  any fish or spawn of fish into an inland water, or has in his  possession any fish or spawn of fish intending to introduce it into an inland water, unless he first obtains the written consent of the water authority within whose area any part of that water is situated.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1975/51/pdfs/ukpga_19750051_en.pdf


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## zozo

dean said:


> If fishing with one of those kids nets is illegal then why are they sold and why aren't there more kids in prison
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's the grey area  It's just a net i can sell as many nets to whom i like.. The buyer is responsible what he does with it.. And indeed i did do it as a kid as well and still see kids playing around at ponds and creecks etc. probably not always doing legal stuff.. Probably for kids this is normal nobody takes much notice, let them play.. Police isn't the organ responcible to watch out for this kinda actions.. Parkrangers are and these are in much less numbers around. But still it is ilegal, a kid gets a slap on the wrist, if a parkranger sees it, he likely will say something and tell the kids to stop and go away. If an adult who as law abiding citizen should know beter is caught doing kid stuff, i bet your bottoms on it, you likely will get fined.. It is simple as that..  Little kids ride their bikes on the pavement, we rather see them ride there instead in the trafic.. Adult riding their bike on te pavement? Thats a nono you should ride on the street..

But it also likely is different in every country.. In mine, if its not specified on the permit it is not allowed. And to go fishing i need one and is says 1 rod is allowed anything else is ilegal. Very simply that includes a net. Still also on the permit is a rule that i'm obliged to cary a landing net. There;s the grey area, i can also catch fish whit my landing net. You just should know it is not legal if you do.. But if nobody is looking no hamr is done. Till you get caught by a grumpy parkranger.. 

Another good argument to think about what castle points to.. Not only risking a fine catching them.. You risk a fine again when releasing them back.


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## webworm

This might be worth a read 

https://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/npb/people/barber/files/sticklebackcare.pdf


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## dean

http://www.carpco.co.uk/other-pond-fish-c-31.html

Anything here that you want ?


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## Kezzab

Thanks guys, really useful links, particularly that Stickleback one - I'd assume the principles are the same whatever species. I appreciate the assistance.


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## Aqua360

interesting topic, I imagine a lot of people probably just catch them and do what they want; with nobody being none the wiser. Even though it may be illegal? Bit of a grey area ethics wise, I would echo the sentiment of previous posters that mentioned not returning them to the wild from home aquaria


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## Kezzab

So i got a full response from the EA. Very informative... Short version, if you want to do this legally it'll be more hassle than its worth. Fair enough.

"Thanks for your email in relation to the removal of Minnows, Stone Loach and Bullhead. Can I ask what the purpose of keeping these fish in an aquarium is? Is it for pleasure or scientific interest / research? Any fish kept in aquaria will require an appropriate set-up to replicate their natural habitat and suitable filtration system to maintain adequate water quality and oxygenation (required under the Animal Welfare Act).  If you wish to use a fishing instrument other than rod and line to catch fish, for example a hand net, you’ll require an authorisation from the Environment Agency for it’s use (Section 27 Authorisation). I’ve attached the required form. If you wish to return fish to the river, there are a number of permits you’ll need in order to do so; a site permit, a Teir 2 Supplier permit and any fish returned will require a health check. A health check is relatively expensive (can be as much as £300) and requires a sample of 30 fish. Given the number of fish you are thinking of keeping / returning, returning fish is not really feasible. Bullhead are also a Biodiversity Action Plan species so the EA are required to consult with Natural England should you wish to use a fishing instrument other than rod and line and it’s unlikely they would agree to the use of an instrument unless it’s for scientific purposes."


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## zozo

Here is another inormative link.. 
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/314541/fap_guidance.pdf


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## agol77

This has been a really interesting read. I just wanted to add something relating to the husbandry of these fish.  

I've kept lots of native marine/rockpool tanks at work over the years, and the biggest problem we always have is temperature, and I can't see it being much different with native freshwater fish.  Things really start to go pear shaped when the water temperature hits 17 degrees C or above, even with vigorous aeration. 

I personally wouldn't consider keeping any native UK aquaria now without a chiller, which does tend to make the project prohibitively expensive. The Teco I currently have on a 4', 180litre rock pool tank cost about £500.  There are DIY chillers, using small fridges and coiled garden hose, but I've never tried them, so not sure how effective they are. 


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## Parablennius

When I kept native marines I used a redundant beer cooler from a pub basement.With a small powerhead to pump the sea water through the food grade stainless tubing in the ice bank. It even worked on a 6' tank but they do generate a bit of heat themselves.


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