# 3ft of Uncertainty... Now Planted!



## LancsRick (8 Jul 2012)

Right, this is going to be a very slow journal, but I may as well make a start!

*The equipment?*

Rio 180 in dark walnut
2x T8s, 2x T5s
External filtration, circa 2000lph
No CO2
Weekly dosing of James' Planted Tank ferts, recipe 3

*The criteria..*

- Will be a community tank, so there is a need for either caves or overhanging foilage to give cover
- Will be low maintenance - Otos and Amanos will feature
- Will use soil (not used this as a substrate yet and want to give it a go)


I'm wondering about doing an Iwagumi style tank, but with caves under dragon stone, so that there are still hiding places. A variation on this might work? - http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/gallery/3950

Still in the research stages, so recommendations on both plant types and scape ideas are more than welcome - this is the first tank I will have designed from scratch, since my Trigon has "evolved" gradually as I've put things in, so a different undertaking.

I'm excited!


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## LancsRick (8 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Ok, so I'll keep a track of what catches my eye, here goes...

*The Inspirations*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sworrall/6680370563/ (Taken from here)
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7994/210612.jpg (Taken from here)
http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/gallery/3950

*The Plant List*

Eleocharis acicularis
Hemianthus callitrichoides
Pogostemon erectus
Riccia fluitans
Cyperus helferi


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## LancsRick (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Ok, slightly revised plant list, I'm hoping to get my hands on rock next weekend, at which point I can begin scaping in earnest, and then only plants will remain!

Pogostemon Helferi
Eleocharis sp. 'Mini'
Blyxa Japonica
Staurogyne Repens
Hemianthus Micranthemoides

3 questions in my mind:

- What mosses would be good to go on rocks? I'm intending for this to be mainly hardscape, with plants to just accentuate it. I'd like something that stays fairly flat ideally, so I can superglue to the rocks and then let it spread naturally

- I'm wondering about including a couple of red plants for dashes of colour, but not sure whether this would be eyecatching or just look out of place - any comments from experience?

- Finally, if you take the hardscapes in the 3 "Inspirations" above as the level of rock vs plants I'm going for, how many pots do you reckon I'm going to need for a 180l tank?

Cheers guys!


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## Piece-of-fish (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Hi, the only mosses as far as I know to attach and creep over the hardscape naturally are Java or Taiwan.
Both will be quite flat also. I would go for Taiwan although they do look quite similar.


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## JenCliBee (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Hey mate, out of curiosity..... how did you attach the second set of lights?... any pics.


Ive done it in the pat but always found the wire position a nightmare while removing the flaps for maintenance.


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## darren636 (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

you will need a few pots of each, split them up and spread them around. great title btw.


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## LancsRick (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*



			
				JenCliBee said:
			
		

> Hey mate, out of curiosity..... how did you attach the second set of lights?... any pics.
> 
> 
> Ive done it in the pat but always found the wire position a nightmare while removing the flaps for maintenance.



No pics, but if this explanation doesn't suffice, I'll happily take some!

It's an Arcadia set that has been added, and I've just drilled holes through the front and rear flaps to take the tubes. I've offset them far enough that the ends of the luminaire acts as a "guide" for the wires. Needs a bit of fettling just to ensure the wires retract when you lower the lid, I'll probably just put a bit of lead weight on the wires hanging from the back of the tank.

Make sense? If not, I'll snap away!

@darren - Cheers for that, by the time I've bought a few pots of those I'm going to have spent a pretty penny! I wish I found cheaper hobbies interesting


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## JenCliBee (20 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*



			
				LancsRick said:
			
		

> JenCliBee said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Makes sense but some pics would be nice to get a sense of what your saying .... no rush though mate... just when you get time.... and only if you dont mind


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## LancsRick (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Hardscape!! Apologies for abysmal pictures...











Ok, so what's the plan on this? Very top left and very top right will be carpetted, with the right had side having that piece of rock poking out as a bit of a peak. The plateau just off the middle towards the right will be a white "lake", with a stream coming down into the canyon and then a beach along the front. The very front right has a cave built, not as a visual point of interest, more to provide shelter for inhabitants.

Planting will be iwagumi style.

Thoughts?


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## Ian Holdich (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

nice layout Rick...well done!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Hey,
Looks like a nice layout pal. Only thing worrying me is that I believe you have used aquatic compost for substrate?

Without a gravel cap, doesn't this stuff cloud up with the slightest movement?

I haven't used it before, so I can't say for sure, but someone will be able to elaborate I'm sure.

Keep it up mate,


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## LancsRick (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Spot on, I'm going to cap it with dark gravel, and light gravel for the stream. Wasn't going to screw around with that until I was happy with the structural scape though.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Ok mate, that sounds like a plan. Just wasn't sure you were aware & would have been gutted to see a pool of mud  

Good luck with the rest.


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## darren636 (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

i did experiment with just a soil base... Looks just like a river but turns cloudy if you even think about looking at it.


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## LancsRick (28 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

I used the Fluval Edge as my trial with this, and got away with minimal soil disruption when filling, so I think it should be ok. I've cut bits of gravel tidy so most of the large areas are covered, although the downside is that the gravel tidies make planting harder as you don't have the depth of substrate to trap the plant in.

Pictures to follow tomorrow hopefully .


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## LancsRick (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Ok, gravelling now complete!

The two black areas at either end will be carpetted with hairgrass or blyxa (not decided yet).
The slope on the right hand side from the black area to the white "lake" will have a bank of stauro repens on there.
Rocks will have a variety of riccia/spiky moss on them.
Boulders along the shoreline will have some hairgrass sp. mini as odd tufts.

Focal point will be the stream leading up to the lake, as this will be unplanted and therefore a bit of white space in the scape (tried to follow the golden ratio and photography principles there).

Thoughts?


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## darren636 (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

get some plants in ! will be very nice.


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## LancsRick (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Never thought of that darren . I have a tendency to dive into things so forcing myself to go slow on this one!


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## LancsRick (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 1 - Ideas)*

Thinking of these as the plant order - any comments?

Eleocharis acicularis x4
Pogostemon helferi x1
Staurogyne Repens x1
Riccia fluitans x1 (1-2-Grow)
Spiky moss (large Tropica portion)


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## darren636 (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 3 - Plant Selection)*

i was going to suggest eleocharis  vivipara.  so  tall  yet  transparent


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## LancsRick (29 Jul 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 3 - Plant Selection)*

Not sure about putting tall plants in there - where would you suggest darren?


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## LancsRick (2 Aug 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 3 - Plant Selection)*

Tank planted up this evening and now running!

Need to tidy up the cables and sort out a collision between the rear light tube and the filter piping, but I'll leave those until the weekend.

Plants are:

eleocharis acicularis
postgemon helferi
spiky moss
staurogene repens

Comments?


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## Ady34 (3 Aug 2012)

*Re: 3ft of Uncertainty... (Stage 3 - Plant Selection)*

Looking good mate.
You may find you need to trim the acicularis a bit more to encourage new growth, suck it and see for a few days first, its a PITA to remove the trimmings anyway!
Cheerio,
Ady


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## LancsRick (3 Aug 2012)

Thanks Ady - I've trimmed it to half its original size but will take some more off once it has put roots down.

The tank doesn't look like this anymore, the tannin leaching from the soil has well and truly started now!


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## meejo (4 Aug 2012)

Nice rocks and layout, looking forward to see it progress


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## LancsRick (4 Aug 2012)

Really really chuffed with the rocks, my LFS got them in!


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## Alastair (4 Aug 2012)

Layout looks great mate. Really really nice. I like it. 
One thing to ask, the black mounds at the back, is that purely aquatic compost? 
If so that will be causing the colouring of the water if it's not capped with anything. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LancsRick (4 Aug 2012)

It's capped with black gravel - that said, as expected the tank is now a dark brown tinted body of water. The little Edge that I did last week has now cleared, so I expect this will be around a week or so too.

Thanks for the compliments .


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## LancsRick (1 Dec 2012)

Ok, getting rid of the soil and thought I might do a more iwagumi style scape this time. Only plants will be hairgrass and some mosses.

What are the thoughts on the minimalism below?


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## LancsRick (2 Dec 2012)

Right, I've planted up, couple of different angles below. I've never grown hairgrass before, so hoping that it will take. The shrimp seem very keen on the nooks and crannies in the rock arrangement. I've got some riccia coming soon, so some (not all) of that gravel will get a riccia carpet. There's a fair bit of growing in to be done, but I think this might look good. There will be a shoal of 50+ tetra or similar going in there too, hence keeping it as quite a "low" scape.


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## foxfish (2 Dec 2012)

Perhaps you should of sloped the substrate a lot more towards the back as this would of really helped the flow & feed the hairgrass at the back!


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## Antipofish (2 Dec 2012)

Hey Rick whats the red substrate at the back ? And how many kgs have you used of substrate in total?  Thanks.


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## LancsRick (2 Dec 2012)

Moller clay, from Kaizen bonsai. It's the same stuff as cat litter but without the perfume. At a guess there's maybe 10 litres in there, so probably 8kg or so. I just did a bulk order of 60litres so I never need to get more substrate again!


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## Antipofish (2 Dec 2012)

LancsRick said:
			
		

> Moller clay, from Kaizen bonsai. It's the same stuff as cat litter but without the perfume. At a guess there's maybe 10 litres in there, so probably 8kg or so. I just did a bulk order of 60litres so I never need to get more substrate again!



Can you give me a link to the one they bought ? I find their site very confusing.  How light did you find it compared to cat litter  ?


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## LancsRick (2 Dec 2012)

This is the stuff
http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=84_87&products_id=2193

It's exactly the same as cat litter in that regard, so it's light but does sink. As always, the trick is to rinse it well before using.


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## LancsRick (8 Dec 2012)

Quite chuffed with how this is shaping up, and the speed with which the hairgrass is growing (had to trim today, there was nearly 2cm growth on some bits!).

I've just added some stainless mesh with java moss at the front right, hopefully that will grow in to soften the open gravel area a bit (plus I'm expecting the shrimp to love it).


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## LancsRick (25 Jan 2013)

Right, thought I'd update a few pictures on this. The Java Moss carpet looked naff, so I thought I'd move to riccia. The tank is a bit of a "holding" area at the moment, since I'm growing on some of the riccia and weeping moss for use elsewhere, so the middle is a bit cluttered.

Dropbox - 2013-01-25 18.33.58.jpg - Simplify your life
Dropbox - 2013-01-25 18.34.23.jpg - Simplify your life

I also decided to put my spare nano cube to use, since it fits perfectly under the Rio 180 stand. I'm using it to hold surplus plants and grow them on a bit - ele acic sp mini and HC in there at the moment.

Dropbox - 2013-01-25 18.34.35.jpg - Simplify your life


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## LondonDragon (26 Jan 2013)

You need to cut that mesh to shape around those rocks  then you have an instant carpet.


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## LancsRick (26 Jan 2013)

That's the plan! There's a set of heavy duty wire cutters on the side for that very purpose . I'm just letting the riccia fill out a bit more on that rectangle before I do it. Was going to be today's job but I got ambushed by a nap attack....


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## LancsRick (2 Feb 2013)

I've followed Paulo's technique for riccia mesh, and have done the entire tank this morning. In a few weeks it should look pretty good!

I've also tidied up the hairgrass a bit, since it was my first attempt at planting it, and I mistakenly did it in small clumps, I've redistributed some of them to speed up filling in the gaps.


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## jack-rythm (2 Feb 2013)

glad to see someone else brave enough to attempt a 3ft carpet of riccia.. good luck mate


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## LancsRick (2 Feb 2013)

Why, what could possibly go wrong with riccia?


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## jack-rythm (2 Feb 2013)

nothing at all but 4 months in and I am sick to the back teeth of cutting it and picking it out from my tank lol, once you make that first cut you will NOT get it all out lol it just keeps re-appearing lol


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## LancsRick (2 Feb 2013)

There's already been plenty of it floating around while I've been growing up my stock to have enough to plant .


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## dw1305 (4 Feb 2013)

Hi all,


jack-rythm said:


> nothing at all but 4 months in and I am sick to the back teeth of cutting it and picking it out from my tank lol, once you make that first cut you will NOT get it all out lol it just keeps re-appearing lol





LancsRick said:


> There's already been plenty of it floating around while I've been growing up my stock to have enough to plant


My only carpet success (other than Duckweed), like Duckweed I've found that a_ Riccia_ carpet is easy, but only as long as you want it at the waters surface.

cheers Darrel


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## LancsRick (13 Mar 2013)

Right, a brief update, both good and bad!

On the good side, the riccia carpet is growing in nicely (this is 6 weeks of growth). By the end of April or so I should have a fairly reasonable carpet in there!

On the down side, for some reason I've steadily lost my ele. acic. from the back of the tank. Most of it is perfectly healthy and just floating around, which leads me to one of two conclusions - either it has failed to put down roots, and gradually been pulled out by filter flow (but I can't see why it wouldn't root), or my ever helpful cherry and amano shrimp have dug it all up. Short of putting lead on every single plantlet I really can't see how I'm going to make this work!

Anyways, pictures being a thousand words and all that, here you go:


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## LancsRick (6 Apr 2013)

9 weeks of growth now - low tech riccia carpet is well underway!


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## Steve Smith (6 Apr 2013)

That's filling in well!  Are you finding that the shrimp dislodge it or are they leaving it alone?


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## LancsRick (6 Apr 2013)

Had no problems at all with it being dislodged. They're keeping it immaculately clean too which is great. It won't be long before it needs its first trim at this rate, and then I'll just have to wait for it to fill out a bit more.

The rest of the tank needs a tidy up - you can spot where some breakaway fissidens has tried to set up camp in the riccia, so I'll remove that at some point.


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## LancsRick (16 Jun 2013)

Ok, bit of an update for this one.

I've been rebuilding my bathroom at home, and as a result my tank maintenance has taken a backburner. I've since learnt a big lesson - neglect a riccia carpet's need for mowing at your own risk! My nice healthy carpet decided to detach itself and go wandering around the tank. Since the hairgrass in the tank never really took off, I decided to do a real overhaul.

Healthy Carpet  - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2793861/2013-05-09%2020.55.27.jpg
The aftermath - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2793861/2013-06-16%2018.00.28.jpg

The rebirth! - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2793861/2013-06-16%2021.10.28-2.jpg

One thing I do have is some weird "mould like" algae on the glass, notably the rear panel. Details in the thread below, any thoughts?

Green algae on glass (not green dust) | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## LancsRick (16 Jun 2013)

Double post


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## LancsRick (24 Jul 2013)

Don't like the current hardscape nearly as much as the hardscape I had when my soil substrate attempt failed, but at least the tank seems to be doing well now. Riccia carpet is re-establishing itself well at the moment after my previous episode of neglect!


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## LancsRick (21 Dec 2013)

Right, well a fair bit has happened since my last update.

The riccia carpet grew well - too well. I couldn't keep enough riccia alive underneath the mesh, and as a result I repeatedly got sections breaking away and floating up to the surface. I therefore got rid of the carpet, despite it looking really really healthy, and have since set up a java moss carpet. It's going to take months rather than weeks to fill in, and it traps dirt far more willingly, but I'll stick with it for the time being.

The other main change has been as a result of today. I've shut down my Trigon, and consolidated all the plants and livestock into the Rio. I'd like to think that this has been a significant improvement in the scape, and will hopefully grow in really well. There is some evident BBA on some plants, but as I've dipped them all in glut when transferring them over, that should die off in the coming days. Comments welcomed!


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## tim (22 Dec 2013)

Think that looks fantastic mate.


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## LancsRick (22 Dec 2013)

thanks tim, means a lot coming from you!


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## sa80mark (22 Dec 2013)

Really nice mate whats the large leaf plant towards the front from center going to the right ? Some sort of anubias ?


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## LancsRick (22 Dec 2013)

Not sure what you're referring to mark, but almost certainly yes.

Plants are:

Java moss carpet at front right and very front of rest of tank.
Couple of tufts of fissidens in rock cracks.
Some sort of liverwort in a few of the other rock cracks.
Various anubias, mostsly var nana and caladiifolia
Two large java ferns on bogwood
Amazon sword nestled behind the two java ferns.
Lots of sagi. subulata.


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## LancsRick (26 Dec 2013)

Dipping in 2% Glut is clearly bad news for both Anubias and Echinodorus!

Dropbox - 2013-12-26 10.12.47.jpg

AquaEssentials order going in today if they're open...Lesson learnt there! Shame as quite a few of those anubias are 18months+ of growth.


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## tim (26 Dec 2013)

Bummer  before you bin them check the rhizomes for damage if they look solid enough trim all the melting leaves away and you should get new growth, unfortunately with anubias it'll be slow going.


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## LancsRick (26 Dec 2013)

Good shout tim. I didn't realise that with zero leaves I still stood a chance of keeping the rhizome, but I'll give it a shot! Doesn't look like AE is open today .


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## LancsRick (30 Dec 2013)

Recovered courtesy of new plants!!


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## LancsRick (12 Apr 2014)

Grown in a bit now, really enjoying the tank. It's so low maintenance and healthy it's untrue. Zero plant algae, and tiny tiny levels of algae on the glass. It gets a 25% water change every one or two months, and the filters are cleaned at the same time. That's about it to be honest. No hassle at all.


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