# help please!algae killing HC



## k-hult (20 Nov 2011)

Hi everyone 

This is my second attempt at growing HC in m aquarium, the last lot melting due to what i think was a lack of co2. Everything was looking fine, the HC looked healthy and was sending out runners until a brown algae started developing across the bottom of my substrate (diatoms i believe) which has now started spreading to the leaves on my HC. I recently switched the orignial Ebi 11w light for a 26w Duo boy which is when the algae really started to take off, especially as i had both the lighting fixtures on at one point. I am currently using a pressurized co2 kit however this is very on and off as it is a very small canister and easily runs out so my dad takes it to his work to fill it up again, meaning that many days they will go without co2, however my dad is building me a custom co2 kit so this should sort that out. I do not test my water as the kits are expensive and I am a student so money is a bit limited. I belive the problem may be lniked to low level of Co2 or high ammonia levels from where some of my HC initially rotted.

 Any help would be appreciated guys as i am new to this hobby and am worried that my HC may suffer the same fate once again.  

tank: 30l or 7.9g fuval Ebi
lighting: 26w duo boy
substrate: aqua soil amazonia
plants: HC and Dwarf hair grass
Fluval pressurized co2 kit
fertilizers: none


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## mdhardy01 (20 Nov 2011)

As you state the problem started when you upped the lighting 26watt over 30 l is too much unless you are pumping in serious amounts of gas and ferts
Drop the lighting by half and wait until you get your gas sorted or use easy  carbo / excel but I would still lower the lighting
The diatoms would of started because the lighting was too high the hc melted because of the lack of gas which would then of caused ammonia spike and more diatoms 
Every one thinks that hc needs lots of light this is not true what it needs is lots of co2 either gas or exel/easy carb and good flow to make sure it gets to the hc 
Hope this helps 
Matt  


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## mdhardy01 (20 Nov 2011)

Just looked at your post again and no ferts
If your using any sort of co2 enrichment you need to be adding npk 
Matt


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## k-hult (20 Nov 2011)

Cheers for the quick reply  
Yeah it defiantly seems that the lighting is the culprit here, I just read somewhere that HC spreads quickly in strong lighting, I think Ill go back to my old 11w lighting until I have a constant co2 source and drop my lighting period from 8-6 hours :/ I think I have a good flow so that shouldn't be to much of a problem as I use the spray bar to push the bubbles around the tank after they've escaped the diffuser. Oh and I'm ordering some flourish excel tonight to work in conjunction with this.

This is the part that confuses me ha ha, I really want to start enriching with ferts but I'm really confused with all the brands out there. Is there a an all in one solution that contains ferts?

Thanks a bunch  
kieren


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## spyder (20 Nov 2011)

For a student on a budget grab a brew and check in the articles section for Clives chat about EI.


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## k-hult (20 Nov 2011)

Cheers,I shall do this now, do you know on average how much it will cost for fertilisers?

Thanks
Kieren


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## CeeJay (20 Nov 2011)

Hi k-hult

You will need these
KNO3
KH2PO4
Trace Elements
That should be all you need except that if you are in a soft water area you will need Epsom Salts for the MgSO4 99p a kilo on ebay   
You will use more of the KNO3 than the KH2PO4 by an approximate ratio of 3:1.
The Trace elements are the most expensive, but don't stress, 250g will last you absolutely ages on a 30l. I use less than 100g in a year on my 180l


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## k-hult (20 Nov 2011)

Thanks Spyder, that was a really good article and I can defiantly see how lack of fertilizers could be contributing to my algae problem, looks like I'll be investing In some dry fertilizers. 

So if I understand correctly the dosing for a week based on the maximum nutrient uptake per day

Nitrate-20ppm (so 3ppm per day)
Potassium-30 ppm (so 5ppm per day)
Phosphates-3ppm (so 0.4ppm per day)
Magnesium-10ppm (so 2ppm per day)
Iron-0.3 ppm (so 0.07ppm per day)

Now this is where I become stuck I cannot work out how much I'd need for my 30l tank a day, would I just Times each of these measurements by the amount of liters if 1mg=1ppm to a litre , so I would be adding 90mg of Nitrate a day, 150mg of potassium a day and so on?

Also do mix these together on a daily basis or mix a weeks worth at a time?

Thanks for the help guys  really appreciate it
Kieren


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## k-hult (20 Nov 2011)

Ah cheers Chris  wish I'd read your post before I posted ha ha
Ah that's good news seeing as I'm low on money right now  should last me a while 
So are these nutrient supplements contain nitrates, potassium, phosphates, magnesium and iron in some kind of blend? Sorry I'm a bit of a noob . I believe my water is quite hard so Hopefully won't need the Epsom salts but it's not to pricey anyway


Cheers 
Kieren


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## CeeJay (21 Nov 2011)

Hi k-hult


			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> So are these nutrient supplements contain nitrates, potassium, phosphates, magnesium and iron in some kind of blend?


You are indeed correct   
KNO3 contain Nitrate (N) and Potassium (K)
KH2PO4 contains Potassium (K) and Phosphate (PO4)
and your Trace elements is a blend of sorts and contains Iron amongst a few other goodies.


			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> Also do mix these together on a daily basis or mix a weeks worth at a time?


I would mix up one months worth at a time.
The KNO3 and KH2PO4 can be mixed together, but the Trace elements must be kept separate as the Iron reacts with the Phosphate and is then not available to the plants.
30l is approx. 7 US gallons which is a pain to work with so I would use 10 US gallons to keep the sums simple. Clive's tutorial is based on a 20 US gallon tank so just halve the amounts.
For your 30l tank I would add 1.25 tsp KNO3 and 3/8ths tsp (call it 1/2 if you can't measure 1/8ths) together in one bottle and 1/4 tsp Trace in another bottle.
You can add this to any amount of water that you wish, however it is easier if the volume can be divided by 12 (3 doses per week for 4 weeks = 12) for the NPK, and divided by 8 for the Trace (2 doses per week for 4 weeks = 8 ) 
That may depend on what bottle sizes you have available.


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## k-hult (21 Nov 2011)

Hi again Ceejay

Ah I see  thats a lot easier than dosing individual elements one by one, Im learning a lot for someone who this morning who knew nothing about fertilizing ha ha

Well I have a bottle that hold 1500ml of liquid so if I fill it up with 1200ml of water then add the fertilizer I can measure out 100ml each time, would that be right? 

I've got 2 of these bottles so i can use one for the Ferts and another for the Trace elements 

Many Thanks 
Kieren


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## foxfish (21 Nov 2011)

You might find this useful http://blog.fluidsensoronline.com/calcu ... ive-index/


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## CeeJay (21 Nov 2011)

Hi Kieran



			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> Well I have a bottle that hold 1500ml of liquid so if I fill it up with 1200ml of water then add the fertilizer I can measure out 100ml each time, would that be right?


It would, but you can also use 600ml and dose 50ml per dose   
We seem to have deviated from the original algae problem (although they're all related), so any more ferts questions would be best placed in the fert section   .  It's just that if someone searches in the algae section and gets bombarded with ferts issues, it all gets a bit confusing  :?
Keeps life simple


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## clonitza (21 Nov 2011)

When plants are melting you need:
- more CO2
- more flow
- more water changes

I hardly think you really need an macro fertilizer mix with amazonia in its early stages. A trace + potassium mix should be fine (ADA Step 2 + ADA Brighty K or similar). You can add Easy Carbo/Excel when your CO2 canister runs out, 0.5ml/day should be enough.

Mike


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## k-hult (21 Nov 2011)

Cheers guys, had so much great advice and feeling confident that I can make my HC bounce back and clear up this algae problem 

At Chris: ha ha yeah I havekind if strayed from the topic just a bit ha ha, got wrapped up in this fert business. That's an even better idea, 600ml it is 

At Mike: well I have been doing 25% water changes every two days and then this weekend I have done a 60% water change and my spray bar provides sufficient flow around the tank so that obviously leaves the co2 which is the problem due to it's inconsitancy, which the new pressurized co2 system should be ready today 

At fox fish: cheers that is a handy calculator, it practically works it out for you 

Bck to the algae problem, how does increased co2 help combat algae? 

Oh I was also wondering wether I should remove my hc which now looks on it's way out and start again with a new 
batch of HC, as surely the rotting hc is a constant source of ammonia and unless I remove this source then algae will continue to grow? I'm not sure what do you guys think :S?

Cheers everyone
Kieren


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## k-hult (21 Nov 2011)

I'm currently debating wether to tear out my Hc now to try and loose the algae by leaving e lights off till this weekend or hope that the co2 clears it up :/


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## CeeJay (21 Nov 2011)

Hi Kieren


			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> Bck to the algae problem, how does increased co2 help combat algae?


It doesn't per se. 
What it does do is keep your plants in tip top health, and a healthy plant will never be attacked by algae   
Unfortunately once you've got any type of algae, it feeds off the very same stuff that you are feeding the plants e.g. CO2 and ferts, which just exacerbates the problem.


			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> I'm currently debating wether to tear out my Hc now to try and loose the algae by leaving e lights off till this weekend or hope that the co2 clears it up :/


As mentioned previously CO2 will not clear it up.
If you are debating leaving the lights off, why not go for a 3 or 4 day black out. You have nothing to lose. The algae will not go away even if there is ambient daylight. The algae growth might slow down, but it will not stop. Then see if the HC is beyond saving.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## k-hult (22 Nov 2011)

Hi Chris 

I see, so it more of a battle between the algae and the plants and boosting the plants health with co2 will tip things in the plants favor  

Well I'll stick it out, I went ahead and pulled up my HC and saved as much of the healthy plant as I could , scraping most of the algae of with a toothbrush and them leaving them to float on the surface. I'll completely blackout the tank alongside frequent water changes to slow it as much as possible. I've also tried to siphon through my substrate as much as possible to remove the decaying plant matter and added ome ammonia remover 

Good news is I just ordered the ferts that you recommended and the trace elements aswell as some seachem excel and my custom co2 system will be ready tommorow 

So when I get some more Hc this weekend I should have everything my plants need, just worried that the algae on the substrate will begin to grow on the leaves again. Just a bit worried asa this will be my third lot of HC ive tried growing and it costs me £20 a pop  Im also thinking of getting a few amano shrimps as a clean up crew to pick off some of the algae.

I will defo keep updating and will post some pictures at some point

Thanks 
Kieren


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## CeeJay (22 Nov 2011)

Hi Kieren



			
				k-hult said:
			
		

> I'll completely blackout the tank alongside frequent water changes to slow it as much as possible.


Not a good idea   
During a blackout you need total darkness for the whole period. No peeking   . 
You will be surprised at just how little light algae needs to survive.
Just do a huge water change when blackout is finished.


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## k-hult (22 Nov 2011)

Hi mate
Ha ha, I'm gonna find that incredibly hard to do, I'm so inpatient but I shall hold out.
However perhaps I need to secure the towel more tightly as this morning I found it had collapsed into the water and was soaked .

Well when I was siphoning the substrate I found a disturbing amount of dead plant mater lodged in the surface, I can unconfidently say I think this was the problem, there must have been epic levels of ammonia. I've hoovered quite a bit of the algae off the substrate itself, just need to get my HC growing as quickly as possible, the HC I normally buy is already grown submerged and HC normally takes a month to get a foothold so I'll need some luck.

Cheers
Kieren


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## foxfish (22 Nov 2011)

Hi Kieren, can I ask where you buy HC that has been grown submersed?
Some folk believe it is better to plant very healthy algae free HC that have been grown in the more conventional way above water?


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## k-hult (22 Nov 2011)

Hi Foxfish

Yeah sure, I get them from a local fish shop based in colchester, they seem healthy enough, perhaps a lighter green than most HC I've seen, I was initially going to buy emersed HC however I was told that they will often go through a melting period as they adapt to an aquatic environment. I thought it might be cheaper than buying it online due to postage and packaging, it costs me £20 for 6 small pots of the stuff though :/

Kieren


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