# My new additions



## GreenNeedle (13 Apr 2008)

I already had a male and female ram but they weren't pairing up and the female was getting very stressed from all the unwanted advances from the male and I guess knowing males he was also getting a little frustrated.  Therefore after some advice on cichlidforums I today decided to get another pair.

I have been assured that being in a small group the stress will be reduced and that apart from developing their own territories they should behave much calmer with each other.

These 2 are about 60% the size of the 2 adults I currently have and I can say the adult female is already enjoying the fact that the male has his beady eye on the new female rather than chasing her about and has lost most of her stress spots.  She also seems to be enjoying dominating the new small male. lol

Here is a pic of the new female still in the bag.  I chose her because her ovipositor is very swolen and therefore I am hoping she will pair with the adult male.  This pic shows just how swolen she is but pairing will take a little time yet.





And this is the new male which I picked because he was dominating the tank he was in so will stand more of a chance against my adult male who is quite literally a stunningly beautiful healthy fish which means he is also a very strong fish too.




I bought them today because I am removing a fair bit of plantmass tonight (to send to members on here - already gone and arranged) and therefore this should remove some territory markers the adults had already decided upon, give me some more viewing space for the fish and more importantly have somewhere else to position a breeding stone for the second pair.

Hope all goes well now.

Andy


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## TDI-line (13 Apr 2008)

Very nice examples Andy.


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## Ed Seeley (13 Apr 2008)

When you say 'ram' in your post Andy I assume you know these new ones are Bolivian Rams (_Mikrogeophagus altispinosus_), not the 'ordinary' Ram (_Mikrogeophagus ramirezi_).  Mixing the two species could cause aggression issues though I doubt they'd interbreed (as long as the other sex of their own species was present) as they seem so different in many ways to me.


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## GreenNeedle (13 Apr 2008)

lol.  of course matey.  I have been on the BRC club thread for ages in cichlid forums.

Originally wanted blues when I got the first 2 but these were much cooler when I saw them and have awesome personality

Andy


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## Ed Seeley (13 Apr 2008)

Couldn't agree more, I love the Bolivian rams.  Thought you would know, but just making sure!!!


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## GreenNeedle (13 Apr 2008)

Whilst taking photos of my usual overprune I managed to get a couple of shots of the 'seniors'

This is the adult male.  You can also see the adult female on the left and the new female trying to get out of pic.




This is the adult female and again you can see the new female trying to get out of pic.  You can see that already the adult female has lost her stress spots after only a few hours of the 'juniors' arriving so it seems to have worked (although war has now begun. lol)




Hopefully they'll all be sorted out in the next week or so.

Andy


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## beeky (15 Apr 2008)

Keep us posted! I love a good soap opera!



(Actually that's a lie - I hate them, but I'm interested in this!)


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## GreenNeedle (15 Apr 2008)

An early update:

2 days after introducing the new male & female to the tank. The older female seems to have becomer very close to the older male and is almost fluorescent (as is the male) and her ovipositor has swolen nicely so I think its a case of introduce some competition and shes finally realised she may lose her man. lol

Hopefully I'll be seeing their first spawn sometime soon.

Has turned out to be great advice given to me by Ruurd on cichlidforums.  But then he is bolivian mad. lol

Andy


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## Azaezl (15 Apr 2008)

They are beautiful!  I may have to get some eventually, I want to try my hand at cichlids  but just can't make my mind up what to get.


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## Ed Seeley (15 Apr 2008)

SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> An early update:
> 
> 2 days after introducing the new male & female to the tank. The older female seems to have becomer very close to the older male and is almost fluorescent (as is the male) and her ovipositor has swolen nicely so I think its a case of introduce some competition and shes finally realised she may lose her man. lol
> 
> ...



Great result hopefully Andy.  A bit of competition is always good for cichlid bonding.  I remember reading an article in PFK about a guy who was breeding rare Pelvicachromis by putting 20+ in a small tank and then adding 1 cave to the tank.  The most dominant pair took over the cave and had a very strong bond.  They were then removed and given their own tank to breed in.  A new cave was put in to get another strong pair and so on.


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## GreenNeedle (16 Apr 2008)

Ed - It seems to be the case here too.  Although all the Ram advice says they don't need caves.  I have 2 (of sorts) 1 Mopani and 1 slate and prior to adding the Juvys, the 2 adults were defending 1 each.

The adults now seem to have left 'their caves' and are both hovering over 1 of the 2 flat stones I have in the tank.  They are defending this are like mad and chasing plecs, cardinals and of course the juvy rams away from it.

The juvy male seems to be trying to copy the adults and is 'kissing' the juvy females...ahem 'bits'.

All looking very good.

Azaezl - Bolivians are a great starter on Cichlids.  They are quite hardy (much more than blues or golds.)  They are not too aggressive like most Cichlids and are ultra friendly to the owner.  The minute you enter the room they are watching you. lol.

Andy


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## Ed Seeley (17 Apr 2008)

Great news Andy.  Bolivians are great cichlids.  I'd say that they and kribs are two perfect species for getting into cichlids.


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## GreenNeedle (21 Apr 2008)

Some good news and some bad news.

THE GOOD
I was trying to snip a lotus stem quite close to where the female has been very territorial the past couple of days, near the stone she has claimed and she started attacking the scissors which meant my 'snip' timing had to be very good.

Anyway after snipping I had a good look and she was defending absolutely loads of little wrigglers which are at the base of the lotus.  I may have killed a few in my snipping but the writhing mass are OK.

THE BAD
She has been chasing the adult male away for the past 2 days and therefore I am asuming she has decided he is a 'bad dad'.  If he even aproaches he gets treated as all the other fish in the tank do which is with an aggressive 'get orf moi laand'.  The tetras are hovering around as you'ld expect but she won't let anything near them.

So probs more good than bad and hopefully some little babies will survive the tetras, plecs and other rams which all have a hunger for meaty morsels.

Andy


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## Steve Smith (21 Apr 2008)

Congrats Andy!  Hope you get some survivers from this batch


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## Ed Seeley (21 Apr 2008)

Congrats!

Mum will probably mellow towards Dad as the wirgglers become free swimming.  A lot of female dwarfs don't really seem to trust the males until they need them to help with care duties!


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## GreenNeedle (26 Apr 2008)

Well she didn't let him help.  Silly of her because I think they became too much for her to defend once they started swimming rather than shuffling on the bottom and they've all gone now.

Quite hard for 1 fish to defend such small wrigglers from Tetras and other Rams etc.

Better luck next time I hope.  At least it shows me now that my params are perfect for breeding.

Andy


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## Ed Seeley (26 Apr 2008)

Now they've spawned once it won't be long until they do again and maybe Mum will be a bit more chilled out towards Dad this time.  Or she may even breed with the new male and see how that works out...


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## GreenNeedle (31 May 2008)

she bred again.  same male.  same result.  she seems to get her fill and then spurn the male. wanting to go it alone.

I think she ate them after a week or so.  They were free swimming and then within 2 days all gone.

I can't see it being the other fish because she is super aggressive to any fish coming near including the plecs!!!

Andy


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## Ed Seeley (2 Jun 2008)

They'll sort it out Andy, just give them a bit of time and generally most pairs get it sorted or fall out catastrophically IME!


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## Wolfenrook (2 Jun 2008)

Whatever you do don't put serpae tetras in with them!  About 7 years ago I had 2 breeding pairs of bolivians in my 180 litre set up.  They succesfully bred, and they hatched nicely, at which point my school of serpae tetras dashed in and ate every last one!  The stress of this was too much for my females, who died shortly afterwards, leaving me with just males.   

I don't keep any cichlids these days, but I do miss my little bolivians, they are so full of character!

Ade


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## beeky (3 Jun 2008)

Most fish will grab a quick snack given any opportunity. I had a breeding pair of pearl gouramies and my shoal of neons used to gang up and grab a bite when the male was fending off others.


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## Wolfenrook (4 Jun 2008)

I know that, I keep dwarf gourami.  They breed regularly, but the eggs make lovely snacks you see.   

This wasn't opportunistic feeding though, it was a concerted effort by an entire schoal of the darn things to empty the entire pits that were been guarded (both pairs spawned at the same time, as usually happens because of the hormones released), including right under the parents noses who just weren't quick enough to stop them.  As I said, it actually killed my females, which is why I wouldn't keep serpaes and bolivian rams together again.  Not so much the loss of the young, but the loss of the adult females.

Ade


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## GreenNeedle (8 Jun 2008)

Well there are only 8 cardinals and 3 pitbulls to defend against now.

a month ago one of the cardinals died with a tumourous growth at the tail joint.  had been growing slowly for a few months.

Then 2 days ago came home to see one of the pitbulls belly up on the floor.  Must've been old age I suppose because the others are fine and everyone else is still happy enough.

Thats the trouble with buying wild caught fish as adults in that you don't really know how old they are when you get them. lol

I am currently considering letting the cardinals naturally diminish (they will probably live for another 2 or 3 years. lol) and then introducing a much larger school of endlers in their place as long as they are not small enough for Ram food.  Of course I am also anticipating the Rams removing the endler fry as food.  The amount of fry is what stopped me from keeping black mollies years ago which is a pity because they were good algae munchers.

Andy


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## beeky (9 Jun 2008)

I used to keep a few livebearers (platys mostly) but I've since been banned from keeping them by my wife as she couldn't stand the stress of watching the other fish having a go at the fry. I'd love a large tank for a central american them with some dwarf/medium cichlids and swordtails. But then I'd also like a large african themed tank with a large shoal of nigriventris and interesting african tetras. Then there's also the large asian themed tank with gouramies and a red tailed shark.....Oh, sorry I'm off dreaming again......


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## GreenNeedle (9 Jun 2008)

I used to have 6 zebra danios in with the black mollys and it was fascinating watching them pick the molly fry off.  kinda like nature although someone always adds that those 2 fish are from different areas. lol

Was intersting to watch the Danios behaviour though.

Andy


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