# Anyone use Seachem safe in a smaller tank?



## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

Hi everyone.  
More questions I’m afraid. Please be patient with me. I feel like I’m starting again 

I used to use Seachem Prime in my 520l tank. When I was running    it with EI and big water changes Prime became an expensive option as it was only available online so I moved to a pond dechlorinator against the advice of our LFS 

Now I have a 120l tank I need an aquarium product again.  I don’t drive so need something cost effective to buy larger quantities and store.

I think seachem safe fits the bill.  I’ll only need a pinch at a time.  (I have tiny measuring spoons so will use a more exact measurement)

I assume it is a dry equivalent of  prime so less environmental impact than paying for lots of plastic bottles and water to be delivered 

Would like to know your opinions please

Thanks in advance


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## John q (19 Jan 2022)

There's no reason why this wouldn't work with smaller tanks, would just require a bit of careful measuring. 1mg of safe will treat 1L of water, so if you're doing 50% water changes you'd be adding 50mg, this assumes you are treating the water before you add it to the tank. 
If you're adding safe to the tank prior to re filling Seachem recommended treating for the full tank volume, in this case 120mg. 

If you pursue this route it might be wise to invest in a 0.01g weighing scale.


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## jamiepearson (19 Jan 2022)

A smidgen (1/32 teaspoon) would slightly overdose 120L. I reckon tanks smaller than that would be harder to measure


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

Thank you.  I have one of those scales somewhere.  Off to check the garage


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> A smidgen (1/32 teaspoon) would slightly overdose 120L. I reckon tanks smaller than that would be harder to measure


Thank you.  I have a set that go down to 1/64 so that info is helpful.


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## Jaseon (19 Jan 2022)

Im sure per seachems instruction you cant overdose?

I never understood the treat the full tank volume. Why not treat just the change water?


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

Ajm200 said:


> Thank you





Jaseon said:


> Im sure per seachems instruction you cant overdose?
> 
> I never understood the treat the full tank volume. Why not treat just the the change water?


I’m used to dose the whole tank then fill from a hose on my big 500l tank. Water changes were approximate.  We’d estimate when the tank looked empty enough so changes would vary between 200 and 250l.    Sometimes more if we got distracted and didn’t keep an eye on it. 

On this new smaller one  a hose would be too quick.  Predosing the new water in buckets then  adding it to the tank from a container will be easier.

Looks like my 1/64 spoon will work on a 50% water change


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## arcturus (19 Jan 2022)

Why don't you use Seachem Prime (liquid) instead of Safe (powder)? You need 3ml of Prime to treat 120 litres of water. This means that 1 litre of Prime is sufficient for +300 water changes, or 6 years worth of weekly water changes...

Prime can be easily measured with a syringe. Why going all the trouble with Safe?


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> Why don't you use Seachem Prime (liquid) instead of Safe (powder)? You need 3ml of Prime to treat 120 litres of water. This means that 1 litre of Prime is sufficient for +300 water changes, or 6 years worth of weekly water changes...
> 
> Prime can be easily measured with a syringe. Why going all the trouble with Safe?


The 120l tank is temporary to house the fish from my 500l while we have the floor done.  I’ll be getting a 4ft tank again as well as the 120l later in the year


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

Also,  a litre of Prime going to cost around £30 and 50g of Safe is around £8


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## arcturus (19 Jan 2022)

Ajm200 said:


> Also,  a litre of Prime going to cost around £30 and 50g of Safe is around £8


Safe is more concentrated than Prime, it is cheaper than Prime, and makes sense if you need to treat a large volume of water. The only advantage of Prime is that is easier to measure. 50g of Safe is roughly equivalent to 1 litre of Prime. This amount is sufficient for ~350 water changes, 100 litres each. So, the costs are diluted over several years. You need to decide if the extra you are paying for Prime and the ease of measurement that comes with it has any value to you or not...


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## MichaelJ (19 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> Why don't you use Seachem Prime (liquid) instead of Safe (powder)? You need 3ml of Prime to treat 120 litres of water. This means that 1 litre of Prime is sufficient for +300 water changes, or 6 years worth of weekly water changes...
> 
> Prime can be easily measured with a syringe. Why going all the trouble with Safe?



Agreed. Prime is one of those Seachem products that are actually quite affordable.

Its not clear to me what, if any, difference there is between the two products, other than Prime is a liquid and Safe is a powder.

However Safe would last much longer and if @Ajm200 is eventually going to treat a 500L and 120L tank weekly it adds up.

1 kg of Safe cost the same a 1 liter of Prime ~ about $30 here in the US.

For a 500l tank and a 120l tank if you treat both full tanks each week (and not just the WC water) or ~31 ml, a liter bottle will last 8 month.
With safe the 1 kg (dosing about ~2.6g for same 620 liter of water) will last about 7.5 years (if the compound last that long?).  or ~11 times longer than 1L of Prime...

Even if I had a 500l tank (I have two 150L tanks), I am not sure I would take the saving with Safe given the spread of the saving, over the ease of dosing with Prime, but thats me 

@Ajm200,  If you REALLY want to save money on chemicals, look into DIY of your NPK, Ca,Mg and traces. Thats where you find the bang for the bucks especially if your doing EI level dosing!

EDIT: revised the dosing calculation for Safe.

Cheers,
Michael


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## arcturus (19 Jan 2022)

Found this <here> regarding Prime vs Safe (the same info is also repeated in other web sites). Not sure if this information is correct since I cannot find it in the official Seachem pages. In any case, what matters is that both products effectively neutralize chlorine and chloramine.


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## MirandaB (19 Jan 2022)

Not 100% sure but I think you can overdose Safe if you're not careful and I stick to Prime for my small tanks but obviously for your 500lt it would be a more cost effective option.
Quantum Water Primer is more concentrated than Prime,5ml will treat 300lts compared to 200lts with Prime.


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## jamiepearson (19 Jan 2022)

Prime's heavy metal binding and slime coat thingying isn't mentioned everywhere, but is on this Seachem page


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## KirstyF (19 Jan 2022)

Jaseon said:


> I never understood the treat the full tank volume. Why not treat just the change water?



This kind of peaks my interest too and I’ve not actually found a specific answer to that question.

The easy answer of course is ‘because it says so on the packet’ 😂

And my answer is I don’t really know, because I’ve never really questioned it, but I’m guessing:

(assuming a 400ltr tank and 50% water change) If the relationship between concentration of prime and concentration of chlorine is linear it would seem logical that you should be able to use the same amount of prime for 200ltrs of ‘fully’ chlorinated water as you would for 400ltrs of 50% diluted water. 

So (assuming that linear relationship) if the chlorinated water and non chlorinated water were fully mixed and the concentration of chlorine in that water was therefore effectively at 50%, it could be that a 50% concentration of prime could effectively treat it? If this is the case, do you dose pre-mixed 50/50 RO just for the chlorinated percentage or for the full quantity? 

In practical application, however, when adding from tap directly to tank, the pre-dilution is not in effect. So maybe with the chlorinated water, at the point that it hits the tank, still being at ‘100% concentration’, it would require the water that it is mixing with to be (as a minimum) at the full required concentration of prime, in order to ‘instantly’ (1-5 mins I believe) neutralise the chlorine content of the water being added. Dosing for the whole tank therefore ensures that this minimum concentration is always present right up to the point that the tank is fully filled. 

If we only dosed for the water change amount, the prime would become increasingly dilute and may ultimately fall below its effective level for ‘instant’ dechlorination of ‘fully’ chlorinated water. 

Would this ultimately level out once the water was fully mixed and chlorine diluted….maybe?….how long would that take and how much damage could be done in the meantime?….well I guess there’s a reason they don’t recommend it. 

These are just ponderings though so, alternatively, the relationship is not linear, this is not how it works at all and/or there is in fact a much more science based answer as to why we dose for the whole tank. 😂

Interested to hear thoughts on whether or not this is a load of old twaddle though. 😊


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## Jaseon (19 Jan 2022)

KirstyF said:


> If the relationship between concentration of prime and concentration of chlorine is linear


You lost me at that lol.

I just dose the water that needs treating, but then im not a fan of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank.

I think its a waste of product to be honest.


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## MichaelJ (19 Jan 2022)

KirstyF said:


> Interested to hear thoughts on whether or not this is a load of old twaddle though. 😊


Hi @KirstyF  It seems like it really depends  Depending on the amounts... Chloarmine for instance can take considerably longer time to remove than Chlorine._ Small amounts (whatever that is) _of chlorine can be removed in a matter of minutes with a dechlorinator.  I never bother to consider WC amount vs. tank volume. If am in a hurry (as in same day...), I always add Prime to my WC water based on the volume of my tank, if not I just dose for the WC water amount and having it sit overnight (the most frequent scenario).  My water report states very low chlorine levels, but I suspect it might spike occasionally throughout the year... And I am using RO water! ... _Belt and suspenders for me _

Hopefully, someone who knows more about these products and their efficiency will chime in.

Cheers,
Michael


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## KirstyF (19 Jan 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> Hi @KirstyF  It seems like it really depends  Depending on the amounts... Chloarmine for instance can take considerably longer time to remove than Chlorine._ Small amounts (whatever that is) _of chlorine can be removed in a matter of minutes with a dechlorinator.  I never bother to consider WC amount vs. tank volume. If am in a hurry (as in same day...), I always add Prime to my WC water based on the volume of my tank, if not I just dose for the WC water amount and having it sit overnight (the most frequent scenario).  My water report states very low chlorine levels, but I suspect it might spike occasionally throughout the year... And I am using RO water! ... _Belt and suspenders for me _
> 
> Hopefully, someone who knows more about these products and their efficiency will chime in.
> 
> ...




I actually WC direct from tap to tank (it’s just practical with the quantity of water involved) and I add de-chlorinator for the whole of the tank volume……because it says so on the packet 😊 I’ve just not really ever questioned as to why we do that or, more so, the mechanics of how that works, so @Jaseon ‘s comment got my head ticking. 

In fairness, I should probably just get out more!! 😂



Jaseon said:


> I just dose the water that needs treating, but then im not a fan of adding untreated tap water directly to the tank.



I have pre-mixed, pre-dosed on smaller tanks and my gut would agree that this is the ideal, just not an easy option with this one unfortunately. 😊


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## jaypeecee (19 Jan 2022)

John q said:


> If you pursue this route it might be wise to invest in a 0.01g weighing scale.


...and, may I suggest also getting a set of calibration weights? I have a Smart Weigh GEM20 Jewelry Scale with which I use a set of TPFM calibration weights from 20 mg to 50 g. Total cost was about £30. Wouldn't be without them.

JPC


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## Ajm200 (19 Jan 2022)

Hi everyone.  
More questions I’m afraid. Please be patient with me. I feel like I’m starting again 

I used to use Seachem Prime in my 520l tank. When I was running    it with EI and big water changes Prime became an expensive option as it was only available online so I moved to a pond dechlorinator against the advice of our LFS 

Now I have a 120l tank I need an aquarium product again.  I don’t drive so need something cost effective to buy larger quantities and store.

I think seachem safe fits the bill.  I’ll only need a pinch at a time.  (I have tiny measuring spoons so will use a more exact measurement)

I assume it is a dry equivalent of  prime so less environmental impact than paying for lots of plastic bottles and water to be delivered 

Would like to know your opinions please

Thanks in advance


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## jaypeecee (19 Jan 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> Prime's heavy metal binding and slime coat thingying isn't mentioned everywhere, but is on this Seachem page


Hi @jamiepearson 

Seachem _Prime_ and several other tap water conditioners are referenced here:






						Water conditioners - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki
					






					www.theaquariumwiki.com
				




JPC


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## jamiepearson (20 Jan 2022)

Yes, I was just replying to the comment that someone couldn't find it on the actual Seachem page. And my phone froze when I tried to quote the comment, so I didn't


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