# some concerns, experience welcomed



## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

Hi all,

wondered if i could put across some concerns with my 62 litre tank, hopefully benefit from some experienced insight 

Basically, the tank is recently planted, running on liquid carbon and liquid fertilisers; while I wait on a pressurised system being delivered, and learn more about dry ferts.

The lighting is 5w-60w (according to the sticker), not too much info on it apart from that at the level it sits at; it really makes for strong illumination, probably leading in part to my current concern; which is algae!

Since dosing the liquid ferts at the start of the week, I've noticed that the green algae has built up along the substrate, as well as on the wood with my moss attached. I'm assuming it's because of either:

1) too much light, average 8 hours per day
2) too little carbon and/or ferts?

Another factor Ive been investigating is the flow and filtration, with the tank currently being filtered by a Fluval U2 rated 400lph. This gives me a turnover of 6x per hour, but I do have concerns over the flow being enough to stimulate enough circulation; and also perhaps contribute to the problem?

In the next couple of days I'm expecting the pressurised co2 to arrive, and a small army of red cherry shrimps; if this makes a difference.

Any and all insight is good, I'm picking up the pieces as I go


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

Hard to say without info on the light, but if you feel it is bright, you could try a shorter photo-period if you are getting algae. I would knock a few hours off and see if that helps, or raise the light higher if that's possible?


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

@Wisey 

here are some details I found on the lights:

"The fixture provides a high quality, energy efficient light that shimmers and creates shadows throughout the water,
adding depth and dimension to the aquarium. Use the 8000K white LED during the day and the Actinic Blue 460nm LED during the night
to enjoy the aquarium at all hours of the day. Two mode for Daylight and night light.

The LED is a sleek and contemporary light fixture that will make any other aquarium light look dull. Long lasting LEDs with no bulb replacement required. Great for brighten up fish only tank.For plant or coral tank, please search for 65W / 39W 5730LED Bright LED fixture.

length:  90CM
power:  26W
dimension(cm):   87.5 x 12.5
LEDs :  111 White , 18 blue
lumens :  3415
fit for Aquarium:  90-125cm /3 feets "

I have no idea of the light's efficiency, it's really quite bright when switched on; I think i'd kind of banked on it working since its so close to the tank, only 11 inches from the substrate.

I'll probably cut the photoperiod down to 4 or 5 hours until the co2 arrives, hopefully my carpet plants will make it


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

Do you have a dimmable controller?


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Do you have a dimmable controller?



afraid not, its a pretty basic light bar; day light and blue light


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

If you can't dim it and you can't raise it, I guess your only option is the duration of the light period. 8 hours is quite a long period, especially if its a new set up. I'm currently running on 6 after my rescape, my TMC tile is at 100% but I have it 30 cm from the water surface and then its a 45 cm high tank. I have never had more than 7 hours of light on my aquarium. From what I understand, your plants need at least a 4 hour light period, so maybe start at 5 and work up, rather than start at 8 and have to go back.


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> If you can't dim it and you can't raise it, I guess your only option is the duration of the light period. 8 hours is quite a long period, especially if its a new set up. I'm currently running on 6 after my rescape, my TMC tile is at 100% but I have it 30 cm from the water surface and then its a 45 cm high tank. I have never had more than 7 hours of light on my aquarium. From what I understand, your plants need at least a 4 hour light period, so maybe start at 5 and work up, rather than start at 8 and have to go back.



thanks! I'll definitely try that, I've left the light off today; bedroom window gets sunlight but not direct, so the tank won't be in complete darkness.

I'll try 5 hours tonight


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

Just remember that it can take a week or two to see the effects of a change, so make a change, then leave it a while to evaluate the impact. Don't be too hasty to make more changes, or when you do observe an effect you will have no idea which change has caused it.


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Just remember that it can take a week or two to see the effects of a change, so make a change, then leave it a while to evaluate the impact. Don't be too hasty to make more changes, or when you do observe an effect you will have no idea which change has caused it.



yeah, it'll hopefully not be too drastic with the lighting; the co2 pressurised I imagine will be a pretty big factor though


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## ian_m (1 Mar 2016)

3415 lumens is quite high for your tank size. Converting to T5HO lumen output, with a 39W T5HO giving 5000lumens, so that's 3400/5000 * 54 = 36W T5HO equivalent.

62 litres is 16US gallons.  Thus your are over 2W per gallon (US) and thus into high light tank growing region.

So you will need spot on CO2 and x10 filter turnover and distribution, or you will suffer melting plants and algae growth (which you are seeing).

On the plus side at that priced LED fixture ($50 ?) I very much doubt it is 3415 lumens (giving an impossible at that price of 130lumens/watt), so that is a saving grace. I would suspect maybe actual lumens will be 1/2 to 1/4 the stated value.

So to sort algae, due to too much light...

1. Get an LED controller to dim the lights. Start for first couple of month with is quite low.
2. Raise the light fixtures to reduce light level.
3. Put tape strips across the light fixture to reduce the light level.
4. Put a sheet of frosted or grey plastic across the top of the tank to block light.

Also reduce hours on to say starting at 4 hours a day for first couple of months until tank settles down.

Also if going high tech the x10 flow/turnover is a must. This can of course be done with a filter and power head eg Hydor Koralia Nano 900 Circulation Pump type thing, giving you another 900l/hr.


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## stu_ (1 Mar 2016)

Hi
i bought one of these dimmers from ebay for less than a fiver, i use it on my UP led.It allows 10%, incremental increases.
I'm unsure whether it's compatible with your light fitting.If you bought the light from a shop/online shop, try checking with them.


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

ian_m said:


> 3415 lumens is quite high for your tank size. Converting to T5HO lumen output, with a 39W T5HO giving 5000lumens, so that's 3400/5000 * 54 = 36W T5HO equivalent.
> 
> 62 litres is 16US gallons.  Thus your are over 2W per gallon (US) and thus into high light tank growing region.
> 
> ...



thanks for the response, I've got a powerhead unboxed, rated at 1000lph, combining that with the fluval u2, that would give me 23x turnover per hour :O

seems like i've either got too much or too little right now in this tank!  

I guess the tank height is also a blessing and a curse, given the lighting factor.


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

stu_ said:


> Hi
> i bought one of these dimmers from ebay for less than a fiver, i use it on my UP led.It allows 10%, incremental increases.
> I'm unsure whether it's compatible with your light fitting.If you bought the light from a shop/online shop, try checking with them.



that's awesome, i'll need to have a look at my light...it does have those kind of connection points, as a starting point...


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

have also found this!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hydor-Pico-Evo-Mag-Liter-Hour/dp/B00FF74STM

assuming I use either the fluval wavemaker Cp1 (1000 lph) or the hydor pico (650 lph), that is either 23x vs 17lph flow...

Which would you choose? If anyone also knows if the hydor pico makes a lot of noise; that'd be useful to know, as the fluval is quite loud


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## ian_m (1 Mar 2016)

I bought a cheap (£20 odd, China special) wave maker, but basically it was very noisy. In then end I put it on a timer so that it went off at 7pm so we had a quiet evening. After about 9 months it failed and started running backwards !! .Supplier promptly replaced it, however this one lasted a couple of months and just stopped.

So I bought a £50 3200l/hr Hydor Koralia, considerably quieter, mainly because of the double anti vibration rubber mount. See picture below. That was in 2014 and it is working fine. On from CO2 on to 7pm.


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## Aqua360 (1 Mar 2016)

ian_m said:


> I bought a cheap (£20 odd, China special) wave maker, but basically it was very noisy. In then end I put it on a timer so that it went off at 7pm so we had a quiet evening. After about 9 months it failed and started running backwards !! .Supplier promptly replaced it, however this one lasted a couple of months and just stopped.
> 
> So I bought a £50 3200l/hr Hydor Koralia, considerably quieter, mainly because of the double anti vibration rubber mount. See picture below. That was in 2014 and it is working fine. On from CO2 on to 7pm.



I've heard good things about the koralia...i guess in the meantime I could switch the wavemaker off at night since its in my bedroom and i value sleep...

Any thoughts on the 23x turnover? I tried it briefly last night, it certainly pushed the water round, but didn't force my plants out of their rootings, or push them to one side, only my ludwigia palustris swayed to the left a bit


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## ian_m (1 Mar 2016)

You only really need the at least x10 turn over when CO2 is on.


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## alto (2 Mar 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> This gives me a turnover of 6x per hour,


there are plenty of Tropica Inspiration tanks done up only with internal filters which list flow rates in this 6X turnover range ... one only needs "good" flow
 - excessive flow suits neither most fish nor most plants 

I'm not familiar with your filter, it may be that it's a poor choice given the dimensions of the tank - have you visualized flow within the tank?

If you're unable to raise the light unit, perhaps add some floating plants


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## Aqua360 (2 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> there are plenty of Tropica Inspiration tanks done up only with internal filters which list flow rates in this 6X turnover range ... one only needs "good" flow
> - excessive flow suits neither most fish nor most plants
> 
> I'm not familiar with your filter, it may be that it's a poor choice given the dimensions of the tank - have you visualized flow within the tank?
> ...



I have some healthy salvinia natans that really loves the light, it's growing quite fast in there.

I was messing about with it last night, added the fluval wavemaker (1000 lph); and didn't think it looked that effective, so i changed the cp1 for a cp2 rated 1600 lph.

I realise flow and circulation are different, even with a theoretical circulation of 30x the tank volume, the water looks effectively still at one end 

I may have to add an actual powerhead, but as suggested above; i really want to avoid my plants taking a battering...on the plus side, the areas affected by algae are getting good agitation from the wavemaker


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## Wisey (2 Mar 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> I may have to add an actual powerhead, but as suggested above; i really want to avoid my plants taking a battering...



I know what you mean, having this issue right now. Every day since rescaping on Saturday I am finding bits of the Alternanthera Tropica 1-2 grow floating. It is in the highest flow area, right in front of the violet, which was intentional as I want it to get good light and CO2, but until it has established roots, those small plantlets take a battering. I don't know whether to blame the flow or the Corys who like to root around that area too. I suspect it is six of one half a dozen of the other!

Since moving from the spraybar to the violet, I have had to reduce the flow rate on the filter as on high it just strips plants out the substrate immediately. Ian is right about the 10 times rule of thumb, but as Alto says, everyones tank is a bit different and you just have to see what works for you. If you can get reasonable flow through the entire tank, your DC is lime green where ever you move it in the tank and you have no stagnant dead spots in the flow, I would not obsess too much whether you have 5x 10x or 20x turnover. It's also worth commenting that with my higher flow all my fish just hid behind the bogwood in the lowest flow area, I never saw them unless I turned the filter off or was feeding them. Now with slightly lower flow, they are out all the time, the embers are displaying natural schooling behaviour that they never did before. There has to be a balance between flow and happy fish and happy plants and you can't always put a number on that. To caveat that, I have only been setup since Saturday and could end up with an algae farm with my current flow! Time will tell.


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## Colinlp (2 Mar 2016)

ian_m said:


> I bought a cheap (£20 odd, China special) wave maker, but basically it was very noisy. In then end I put it on a timer so that it went off at 7pm so we had a quiet evening. After about 9 months it failed and started running backwards !! .Supplier promptly replaced it, however this one lasted a couple of months and just stopped.
> 
> So I bought a £50 3200l/hr Hydor Koralia, considerably quieter, mainly because of the double anti vibration rubber mount. See picture below. That was in 2014 and it is working fine. On from CO2 on to 7pm.


Koralia do make decent pumps, the small ones are pretty quiet but for larger tanks Tunze have a reputation for very quiet wave makers or if you want less of an impact in your tank the adjustable speed Ecotech Vortech MP10QD at about £200 is fantastic, completely silent for a bigger tank with a huge spread of water movement. Not suitable for a 62L tank though!


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## Aqua360 (2 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> I know what you mean, having this issue right now. Every day since rescaping on Saturday I am finding bits of the Alternanthera Tropica 1-2 grow floating. It is in the highest flow area, right in front of the violet, which was intentional as I want it to get good light and CO2, but until it has established roots, those small plantlets take a battering. I don't know whether to blame the flow or the Corys who like to root around that area too. I suspect it is six of one half a dozen of the other!
> 
> Since moving from the spraybar to the violet, I have had to reduce the flow rate on the filter as on high it just strips plants out the substrate immediately. Ian is right about the 10 times rule of thumb, but as Alto says, everyones tank is a bit different and you just have to see what works for you. If you can get reasonable flow through the entire tank, your DC is lime green where ever you move it in the tank and you have no stagnant dead spots in the flow, I would not obsess too much whether you have 5x 10x or 20x turnover. It's also worth commenting that with my higher flow all my fish just hid behind the bogwood in the lowest flow area, I never saw them unless I turned the filter off or was feeding them. Now with slightly lower flow, they are out all the time, the embers are displaying natural schooling behaviour that they never did before. There has to be a balance between flow and happy fish and happy plants and you can't always put a number on that. To caveat that, I have only been setup since Saturday and could end up with an algae farm with my current flow! Time will tell.



i've got a shoal of white clouds, they naturally take to the part with driftwood in it, which coincidentally has the lowest flow; they do however venture out and appear to have no problem with the high areas, it almost belies belief though how still the water appears at the far end.

I got my drop checker test kit today, i'm going to set-it up; and when the pressurised kit arrives hopefully I'll have something sorted.

the small sponge filter i had was great for agitating the end of the tank, ironic that I now have to avoid for Co2...could always run both (with high co2 bubbling), but id end up running through co2 cylinders and money like no-ones business lol.


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## Aqua360 (2 Mar 2016)

Colinlp said:


> Koralia do make decent pumps, the small ones are pretty quiet but for larger tanks Tunze have a reputation for very quiet wave makers or if you want less of an impact in your tank the adjustable speed Ecotech Vortech MP10QD at about £200 is fantastic, completely silent for a bigger tank with a huge spread of water movement. Not suitable for a 62L tank though!



the fluval cp2 was pretty quiet last night (free of debris) and is rated 1600 lph similar to the vortech, had no issues with it, if anything its not enough i reckon


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## Colinlp (2 Mar 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> the fluval cp2 was pretty quiet last night (free of debris) and is rated 1600 lph similar to the vortech, had no issues with it, if anything its not enough i reckon


The fluval CP has a very directional flow whereas the Vortech has a wide flow which will propergate everywhere within reason. That said 1600lph should be more than enough for a small tank especially in addition to your filter. Maybe try combining the two to eliminate any dead spots


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## Aqua360 (2 Mar 2016)

Colinlp said:


> The fluval CP has a very directional flow whereas the Vortech has a wide flow which will propergate everywhere within reason. That said 1600lph should be more than enough for a small tank especially in addition to your filter. Maybe try combining the two to eliminate any dead spots



ah I didn't know that. Yeah i currently have the two combined, might try adding a drop of food colouring and watching where it goes, or something inert


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