# New filter - which one?



## Kayne

HI All,

First up apologies I know its a topic that comes up all the time. Will give as much info as I can about set up to help any replies to be as relevant as possible.

Had a boyu ef-20 external running for almost 5 years with no issues until we moved house back in october when for some unknown reason it decided to start leaking. Never managed to identify the reason for the leak so binned the filter and stuck with the 2x internals that I'd put in the tank as an emergency measure after a 24 hour spell without a running filter.
Tank is a juwel 180 (I think, it was a freebie we got a couple of years back) which has plants and probably a slightly high stock level but is very stable with the only recent death being after no filter for 24 hours.
Tested water yesterday with API freshwater master kit results showed around 20ppm nitrate no nitrite or ammonia. PH was reading a bit high at around 8 from its normal 7.2ish but have been a bit lax with water changes for probably over a month due to new house/christmas etc. Running a tap water test tonight as although we are in the same water area we do seem to get more of a chlorine smell from tap and I think we are nearer a treatment plant than before so wonder what effect that has on chemistry. 

Fast forward to now I have the funds to buy a new external. I've thought about an FX6 for a long time which is a great upgrade from the boyu we got for free 5 years ago.
Should I be considering any other alternatives within a similar price bracket?
Anything to be aware of with the FX6?

Many thanks in advance as I know this topic comes up alot.

Kayne


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## Konsa

Hi
FX6 is a great filter but U will be struggling with any inline heaters and other bits as hose size is a bit big for the average market items.
Regards Konsa


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## ian_m

JBL e1501. 1400l/hr. Standard 16/22 piping. Fits neatly in Juwel Vision 180 cabinet. Pipes fit neatly in cut out at rear of tank. Any more questions ?


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Oase Biomaster series. Easy clean pre-filter and integrated heater.
Or the filtosmart for the lower price bracket. Integrated heater but not the easy clean pre filter.
Eden 500 series for the Skoda knock off version


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## oscarlloydjohn

JBL e1501 or Oase Biomaster as the others have said. Can't go wrong with either


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## Millns84

The new Aquael Ultramax 2000 looks great - 2000lph, 16/22 hoses, pre-filter and only 24w to run.


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## ian_m

The newer JBLe1502 is only 20Watts. This is 20/1000 * 0.17 * 24 * 365 -> £30 a year to run (@17p per unit electricity).

Some considerably cheaper equivalent flow filters take much more power eg APS1400 is only £60 (compared to £160 for e1502) but 35Watts thus costs £53 a year to run, £20 odd more expensive, so in five years the JBL works out cheaper.


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## Millns84

Aquael Ultramax 1500 which is the equivalent of the JBL e1502 uses 15w in comparison and should be a bit cheaper to purchase.


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## Kayne

some interesting choices there. Aquael looks good and Ive got one of their internals which has always been pretty good considering it was also cheap.

Konsa - pretty lucky (maybe unlucky) I dont have any inline stuff to worry about with the FX6.

Didnt expect such an array of differing options tbh. Have to go do some more research i guess.

Ian - is there any major difference with the JBL E1501 or 1502?

Thanks all so far, appreciate it


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## ian_m

Looks like the e1502 uses different sponges and water path in uppermost filter basket.

With the e1501 I have, the water flows through the inlet pipes, through the coarse filters labelled F1, down the sides of the baskets to the bottom and back up through all the trays. I tend to rinse the coarse sponge weekly.

Looks like the e1502 has a bigger F1 sponge with the filtered water returning via the central column.

Mine is the "olde" e1501 that came with three trays of ceramics (noodles and balls) of which I use only 1/2 (to keep flow up) and only one filter foam layer (F4). Newer e1501 & e1502 have only one ceramic ball layer, two other foam layers as well as final filter foam. If I was getting this now I would not use the two foam layers but fill with ceramic balls/noodle/other filter media.

Below e1501 upper layer.





e1502 upper layer.


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## Millns84

The Aqua One Ocellaris range look interesting too - I was considering the 3000lph version for my Rio 450 and I believe they're the largest canisters on the market (perhaps that's a downside for when you've got to lug it into the bathroom!?). 

They also do a 1400lph version which should do well on a 180 litre tank.

Sunsun have also launched a new "smart" filter recently, which Finest Filters are selling on Ebay for £110 - Same size/trays as the 704b but with 3000lph, variable flow rates (and power consumption - Max 30w which is impressive for 3000lph) as well as a UV clarifier which can be set to come on for set periods. I've got two 704b's on my Rio 450 at the moment and they do ok so I'd assume this would be good also.

My only really criticism of the Sunsun canisters is the inlet/outlets which are pretty cheaply made.


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## Kayne

ian_m said:


> Looks like the e1502 uses different sponges and water path in uppermost filter basket.
> 
> With the e1501 I have, the water flows through the inlet pipes, through the coarse filters labelled F1, down the sides of the baskets to the bottom and back up through all the trays. I tend to rinse the coarse sponge weekly.
> 
> Looks like the e1502 has a bigger F1 sponge with the filtered water returning via the central column.
> 
> Mine is the "olde" e1501 that came with three trays of ceramics (noodles and balls) of which I use only 1/2 (to keep flow up) and only one filter foam layer (F4). Newer e1501 & e1502 have only one ceramic ball layer, two other foam layers as well as final filter foam. If I was getting this now I would not use the two foam layers but fill with ceramic balls/noodle/other filter media.
> 
> Below e1501 upper layer.
> View attachment 121317
> 
> e1502 upper layer.
> View attachment 121319



Thanks Ian. Having a look at the e1502 as the 1501 is now discontinued anyway. It looks like the water flows in over f1 and then goes down the side of the baskets before being pulled through that central column via the lower baskets first.
Have attached the image so hopefully it shows properly. Although I find it odd it goes pre-filter then bio then back through sponges so would do as you suggest there and put more ceramic stuff in those areas.



Lots of reading to do before I commit to one of these.

oase biomaster diagram makes no sense how it flows.


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## Siege

Oase goes in, through the prefilter to bottom of canister and then up through the media.


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## ian_m

I would choose the biggest filter you can get in your cabinet. I spent ages measuring, finding dimensions etc and eventually went for e1501 as it was biggest that would fit into Juwel Vision 180 cabinet without having to modify the stand. I could have got a larger filter in, but then would have had to remove the door hinges each time I wanted to open the filter.



Kayne said:


> It looks like the water flows in over f1 and then


This looks better on the e1502, a bigger first foam, than the e1501. After leaving mine for say 5 weeks (holiday time) the first foam filters (the ones at the edge) are almost solid and collapsed with the water now passing around the sponges. They do spring back once cleaned. I have replaced my e1501 pre-filter F1 edge sponges recently at that was after 6 years. Hopefully a bigger F1 sponge in e1502 will be better.


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## sciencefiction

Millns84 said:


> My only really criticism of the Sunsun canisters is the inlet/outlets which are pretty cheaply made.





ian_m said:


> Some considerably cheaper equivalent flow filters take much more power eg APS1400 is only £60 (compared to £160 for e1502) but 35Watts thus costs £53 a year to run, £20 odd more expensive, so in five years the JBL works out cheaper.



I have the JBL e1901, JBL e1502 and two APS2000 filters. The APSs have been running without a single part changed for 8 and 7 years respectively. The JBLs are way younger but doing well so far. 

The negatives on the APS are the inlets/outlets, but I have the very old versions. Besides that, they're solid and just keep working relentlessly. The negatives on the JBL, they are very difficult to prime,, if for some reason you have to place the filter close enough to the water surface but I suppose it won't happen to most people. The issue with mine is that they're servicing a pond and another pond like container which are placed right down on the floor. The APSs have no such issues.

I have a prefilter sponge on all inlets so I haven't experienced the F1 "sponge collapse" Ian mentions above.


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## Kayne

ian_m said:


> I would choose the biggest filter you can get in your cabinet. I spent ages measuring, finding dimensions etc and eventually went for e1501 as it was biggest that would fit into Juwel Vision 180 cabinet without having to modify the stand. I could have got a larger filter in, but then would have had to remove the door hinges each time I wanted to open the filter.
> 
> This looks better on the e1502, a bigger first foam, than the e1501. After leaving mine for say 5 weeks (holiday time) the first foam filters (the ones at the edge) are almost solid and collapsed with the water now passing around the sponges. They do spring back once cleaned. I have replaced my e1501 pre-filter F1 edge sponges recently at that was after 6 years. Hopefully a bigger F1 sponge in e1502 will be better.



Thanks again Ian. Yeah i'm currently finding all the specs of the filters and reading reviews and comments on forums to cover as much info as I can and of course price hunting too. I know the FX6 wont fit in the cabinet properly but the other half is happy for it to sit on the floor next to it if need be. However if I can fit one in the cabinet even better. 

Looking at everyone comments on this post so far the JBL seems to be the runaway winner.

Also does anyone know is the heater built into the oase or is it an add-on. Website seems to suggest its an optional extra but wouldnt make sense when its the thermo version?


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## ian_m

Below JBL e1501 in left hand cupboard of Juwel Vision 180 stand.


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## Kayne

Your cupboard looks slimmer than the one on my cabinet. Will have to see if i can work out what tank i actually have and have a measure up tonight so I know what im working with.

Just seen a JBL e1902 which is a heftier model...

also surprised not to see a single mention of eheims - have they fallen out of favour now?


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## Kayne

Hmm so lots of comments on the Oase here on ukaps making me think this one is off my list https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/oase-biomaster-thermo-external-filter.41568/

Not seeing much in the way of reviews for the Aquael Ultramax so if anyone can find some that would be helpful


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## Millns84

Kayne said:


> Hmm so lots of comments on the Oase here on ukaps making me think this one is off my list https://ukaps.org/forum/threads/oase-biomaster-thermo-external-filter.41568/
> 
> Not seeing much in the way of reviews for the Aquael Ultramax so if anyone can find some that would be helpful



The Aquael Ultramax has just been released so there's not a lot of info.

If you search for Pondguru on YouTube, he does a series called "pimp my filter" which looks at a variety of canisters including the JBL's and the Ultramax. It also covers his thoughts on the modern Eheims which aren't so great!


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## Siege

I think pond guru is trying to flog his media saying it’s better than Eheims......

I love my Eheim Pro 4 600 (1250 l/ph and 16/22 hosing) but imo my oase biomasters are just as good with the added benefit of a heater built in.

If you don’t want the heater Eheim 600 is brilliant (thermo version is super expensive). I haven’t used a Jbl so can’t comment how they compare but good reports from owners. 

Decide if you want a heater (don’t forget one day you may want to remove the internal box). price up a few models and take your pick. 

Ps. Don’t buy from a German online shop. They are only a pain in the a**e when it comes to warranty.

Hope that helps


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## Geoffrey Rea

Kayne said:


> also surprised not to see a single mention of eheims - have they fallen out of favour now?



Running an Eheim Pro 3e thermo, an Eheim Pro 4+ and Oase thermo here.

The pro 3e thermo has been excellent these passed two years. Flow and temperature is consistent but you would expect so for the price. My one quibble is the priming is hit and miss.

The pro 4+ is fine, only run one of these for 3 months and not as quiet as the Pro 3 IMHO. But significantly quieter than most on the market. Seems easier to service than the pro 3 for some reason.

The Oase thermo is also fine. Just clean the prefilter weekly and give it a shake to remove air at start up/after servicing.

Of all these filters the Oase wins on ease of servicing but the Eheim’s win if quiet running is a priority (e.g in a bedroom).


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## Kayne

Thanks for the insight into the eheims. 

Siege I already removed the internal juwel filter the second i set the tank up (it was second hand anyway)  as i'd already read plenty of people say it wasnt worth it and having an external anyway it wasnt worth losing the space in the tank.

Time to add the eheims into the research list.


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## PAYN3Y

I run a Biomaster 600 and have zero issues with it. Saying that the Aquael Ultramax does look very appealing for the extra flow, price and maintaining the pre-filter which looks a better design than the Oase. Only downside is no heater. 

I think someone really needs to buy an Ultramax and give it a good test.


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## Millns84

Siege said:


> I think pond guru is trying to flog his media saying it’s better than Eheims......
> 
> I love my Eheim Pro 4 600 (1250 l/ph and 16/22 hosing) but imo my oase biomasters are just as good with the added benefit of a heater built in.
> 
> If you don’t want the heater Eheim 600 is brilliant (thermo version is super expensive). I haven’t used a Jbl so can’t comment how they compare but good reports from owners.
> 
> Decide if you want a heater (don’t forget one day you may want to remove the internal box). price up a few models and take your pick.
> 
> Ps. Don’t buy from a German online shop. They are only a pain in the a**e when it comes to warranty.
> 
> Hope that helps



Well he is a salesman first and foremost and does push the Biohome media. It's his livelihood. 

From the Pro 4 upgrade he filmed, the issues he had were poorer quality plastics, flimsy trays, small parts that could break off etc. He goes on to mention that they've gone down hill from the old Pro 2 range.

He did quite like the Oase canister too, as well as Fluval, Aquael, Aqua one etc.


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## Kalum

Haven't got an Oase to compare with but last thing I'd say about the eheims is that they are flimsy, both of my 250t and 350t are solid units, the trays are a bit lighter weight but not flimsy and they don't need to be heavy duty, it's only holding about 100g of media each


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## Millns84

PAYN3Y said:


> I think someone really needs to buy an Ultramax and give it a good test.



I'm very tempted to grab two but there's a few others that keep catching my eye... Going to bite the bullet sometime this year although my Sunsun 704b's are doing fine, I just like faffing and upgrading etc. 

There's also the Aquael Maxi Kani 500 - only £110, same trays as the Ultramax but it trades the pre filter for a 6th tray. It's got a lower flow rate of 1400lph and the motor is separate to the actual canister.

I keep looking at the Aqua One Ocellaris 3000 too. It's an absolute monster of a canister... 30 litre bucket capacity, 3000lph, foams and media supplied with it and even a 4 year warranty.


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## Millns84

Kalum said:


> Haven't got an Oase to compare with but last thing I'd say about the eheims is that they are flimsy, both of my 250t and 350t are solid units, the trays are a bit lighter weight but not flimsy and they don't need to be heavy duty, it's only holding about 100g of media each



Ive only ever had internal eheim filters but from the video, the trays did look a bit light weight. 

Having said that I've got two Sunsuns so I know what flimsy is!


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## Siege

Kalum said:


> Haven't got an Oase to compare with but last thing I'd say about the eheims is that they are flimsy, both of my 250t and 350t are solid units, the trays are a bit lighter weight but not flimsy and they don't need to be heavy duty, it's only holding about 100g of media each



Completely agree. No problem with build imo


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## Millns84




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## Kalum

Got to admit I find that pretty funny

He reviews a filter but spends 20min talking about the part you touch once every 3 months instead of the part that works 24/7 and its efficiency and reliability

He is completely right in that the trays are pretty flimsy and that top cover is fiddly but it's soo overly biased in the video by being heavy handed its embarrassing, the first time he pressed all the trays down to prove a point then managed to perfectly put them together when he was talking about something else in about half the time....

He's also right about the plastic media being rubbish so I agree with that 

If you're not throwing the trays about and trying to force them together then they function perfectly and never had a problem with them, the odd slip inside another tray but I'm sure I can forgive that once every couple of months


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## Tonka3434

Easy fixed as well never had problem with mine as carefully run some glue in between the gap to make the corners solid big fuss about nothing.


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## Millns84

I don't think there's any bias, he's been fine with other Eheims in that series. I wouldn't even understand the reason for any bias... He slags everyone's media off as he's selling his own but I don't see how or why that'd extend to actual filters.

I think if I was spending that much on a filter, I wouldn't want flimsy trays and fiddly covers.


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## H.Alves

What about noise comparisons between OASE vs EHEIM 4+ 600 vs Eheim 2217? Is noise levels that different? Aquael looks good in paper but not many reviews yet and having a heater would definitely be a plus.

So considering everything, if you had to pick between an Eheim 4+ 600 and oase thermo 600, which one would you pick and why?


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## Oldguy

Kayne said:


> surprised not to see a single mention of eheims



I run Eheim 600 Classics, have found them reliable [my first one was made in West Germany and failed after 25yrs], well made and the parts are available should you have a failure. The Classics are simple, fool proof, do not bypass  and will take a variety of media. I do not like sponge filter media and use crushed ceramic or hydroponic balls. For the prefilter I use the tank substrate via a UG which the Eheim powers. If you do not like UG's I would still suggest some kind of prefilter on the inlet. It will make maintenance much easier. 

For high flow for EI circulation I use in tank  power heads with mesh inlet strainers, these power inline in tank CO2 diffusers and a bit of DIY 3/4" plastic pipe work.

If you have enough plants you can hide anything.

Always a bit reluctant to comment on equipment  for named aquariums. Always use plain glass tanks and made stands, lighting hoods etc to suit.


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Oldguy said:


> The Classics are simple, fool proof, do not bypass and will take a variety of media.


I still use them. 





Oldguy said:


> If you do not like UG's I would still suggest some kind of prefilter on the inlet. It will make maintenance much easier.


With a pre-filter.





Oldguy said:


> well made and the parts are available should you have a failure.


That is often the issue with other filters, once they are "obsolete" you can't get parts for them.

cheers Darrel


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## Kayne

Oldguy said:


> I run Eheim 600 Classics, have found them reliable [my first one was made in West Germany and failed after 25yrs], well made and the parts are available should you have a failure. The Classics are simple, fool proof, do not bypass and will take a variety of media. I do not like sponge filter media and use crushed ceramic or hydroponic balls. For the prefilter I use the tank substrate via a UG which the Eheim powers. If you do not like UG's I would still suggest some kind of prefilter on the inlet. It will make maintenance much easier.
> 
> For high flow for EI circulation I use in tank power heads with mesh inlet strainers, these power inline in tank CO2 diffusers and a bit of DIY 3/4" plastic pipe work.


I'm interested in your set up. 
What flow rate does your classic put out? also what power heads do you use? Where do you place them in respect of the filter outlet? 
Not sure whether I'll need a power head at this stage as i was running the tank on a filter with a max of 400lph according to the info I can find online so at this point anything is an improvement - especially as I'm running on internals now that the external died.


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## ian_m

I am going to give my JBL e1501 a minus one point in recommendations (leave all the pluses, low power, quite, easy to clean, excellent pipe locks, fits in cupboard etc).

Yesterday, during water change I popped it open to clean the coarse sponge, put it all back in cupboard, re-applied power and silence. . Oh must have dislodged mains plug, so fiddled around and worked fine. Shut cupboard door and silence. Hmmmm. . Open cupboard, runs again.

Anyway dodgy mains connection where the wire goes through the grommet in pump head. Wiggle wire and pump runs, wiggle again pump stops. . Hmm £85 for new pump head. Nope.

Anyway luckily you can take the pump head apart and mains wire goes through external grommet, through an internal grommet and to the sealed pump head, about 4-5" of cable. Cut cable open using a knife and sure enough lose little strands of copper wire were present. Any way joined the internal cable to existing cable, heat shrink, hot glue and self amalgamating tape, all squeezed into area behind 2nd grommet, which looks like it will stay dry even if water is spilt over the pump head.

Filter works fine now.

Bit of a shame this happened after 6 years, maybe I shouldn't clean the filter so regularly so it is not moved so often.


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## Kayne

Ian at least it took 6 years of abuse before happening. Im sure a cheaper filter wouldnt have lasted as long. At least there was a way to fix and will otherwise go on working for another x amount of time


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## Oldguy

Kayne said:


> I'm interested in your set up


I assume that the Ehiem 600's out put is half of the flow rate on the box. It out put is just a bonus to water turnover. It's main job is to power the UG filter, about 71 litres of substrate. This gives a gently top layer of the tank to the bottom flow and keeps the substrate sweet.

The power heads were low cost Hidom power heads powering CO2 diffusors. The power heads have inline inputs and outputs. One at 1300 litres/286 gals per hr and the other at at 800 litres/177 gals per hr. If starting again I would have both at 286 gal/hr. They were from eBay. The 286 gal and above fit 3/4" plastic pipe work without too much fiddling. The larger goes through a CO2  diffuser and into a 3/4" DIY spray bar. The smaller unit again through a CO2 diffusor but into a DIY swan neck to give a direct current into the tank. The power heads and Ehiem spray bar outlet are all at the back of the tank and hidden by large Anubias 

The tank dimensions L28” H24” D31” Volume 74 Imp gals/336litres gross displacement. About 60 Imp gals net.

Surface area 868sq ins/0.5600sq m Substrate depth about 5''. Substrate volume about 4340 cubic inches, 2.51 cubic ft. 71 litres 15.6 Imp Gals

Hope this is of some use. The tank is set into a disused chimney breast, hence the odd dimensions.


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## Konsa

Hi
@ian_m  I have the JBL e1501 running on one tank.Its all good but have notised the small coarse filter sponges are like brand new and spotlessly clean after half an year as is rest of the filter as I use prefilter rinsed weekly.There was very little muck settled in middle of top basket just under the power head plastic.I dont quite get how is the flow running but  do U think  is possible to bypass the media.It is weird to see no mulm on sponges lower in filter and on them small ones that are supposed to get dirty first.Dont really like to open it as find it pain to close properly after I do.
It may be just the prefilter doing great work but have huge bioload atm and the prefilter is not that fine at all.
What are your thoughts about that?
Regards Konsa


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## Michal550

Konsa said:


> Hi
> @ian_m  I have the JBL e1501 running on one tank.Its all good but have notised the small coarse filter sponges are like brand new and spotlessly clean after half an year as is rest of the filter as I use prefilter rinsed weekly.There was very little muck settled in middle of top basket just under the power head plastic.I dont quite get how is the flow running but  do U think  is possible to bypass the media.It is weird to see no mulm on sponges lower in filter and on them small ones that are supposed to get dirty first.Dont really like to open it as find it pain to close properly after I do.
> It may be just the prefilter doing great work but have huge bioload atm and the prefilter is not that fine at all.
> What are your thoughts about that?
> Regards Konsa


This is common problem with them. I have the 901 and 1501 and the both have the issue. I'm done with JBL products the filters are crap, filter hose cleaning brush falls apart after using couple times and the co2 indicator loosing liquid.


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## Konsa

Hi
Its just a thought I have in back of my head.Im not saying that it is bypassing the media.I did put some new siporax about a month ish ago my have to open it to see if it has changed colour. If I have time later today.That will tell me where the flow is reaching in the media I suppose 
Regards Konsa


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> It may be just the prefilter doing great work but have huge bioload atm and the prefilter is not that fine at all. What are your thoughts about that?


If you have plenty of oxygen going into the filter you probably won't get as much biofilm development, even with a heavy bioload. People vastly over-estimate how much media you physically need for successful nitrification. 

When you open the filter up you can tell a lot about the oxygen levels in the filter by the nature of the biofilm. If it mainly consists of a lot of fine black particles these are the (largely carbon) remnants left when the microbial "low hanging fruit" (short chain carbohydrates, proteins etc.) have been consumed ("oxidised"). 

This is the situation when the microbial activity has been aerobic and the filter media hasn't been oxygen depleted.  

This complete oxidation process is used in waste-water treatment, it is the "_extended aeration system_". This is from <"Role of the Biofilms in Wastewater Treatment"> 





> ....The extended aeration system is one of the modifications of the activated sludge process. It is a complete mixed system that provides biological treatment for the removal of biodegradable organic waste under aerobic conditions. Air may be supplied by mechanical or diffused aeration means. The raw sewage directly flows into the aerobic digestion chamber where all the solids are digested by aerobic bacteria. This is possible because the sewage is aerated for a minimum of 24 h, giving vastly increased time for almost complete digestion of all solids. Since there is complete stabilization in the aeration tank, there is no need for a separate sludge digester. Furthermore, there is no need for a primary settling tank as organic solids are allowed to settle in the aeration tank due to their long retention time. The major advantages of extended aeration include ease of construction as well as operation, high oxygen transfer efficiency, absence of odor, less sludge yield.....


That is also one of the advantages of having a coarser sponge pre-filter, it doesn't inhibit flow too much, and more flow means more oxygen. 

As you increase the bioload (or deplete the oxygen) the nature of the biolfilm changes and you begin to get a much more extensive, sticky and complex biofilm. This is what people who don't keep planted tanks are often aiming for in their filters, a system with fluctuating zones of REDOX where both aerobic nitrification and anaerobic denitrification are occurring across an oxygen gradient, spatially separated by only a few mm. 

The problem with this is that you have the risk of the biofilm later becoming too deep, aerobic nitrification ceasing and ammonia levels building in the tank water. 

If you look at the <"Kaldnes (K1)"> type of media, used in moving bed filters, one of the design features is to continually shed the biofilm, maintaining it at an optimal depth.   

cheers Darrel


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## Michal550

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Its just a thought I have in back of my head.Im not saying that it is bypassing the media.I did put some new siporax about a month ish ago my have to open it to see if it has changed colour. If I have time later today.That will tell me where the flow is reaching in the media I suppose
> Regards Konsa


it is bypassing the media. there was many guys couple years ago on Polish forums talking about having the same issue . How dirty are your hoses? my outlet hose is as dirty as the inlet hose which mean the water coming out the filter in not clean when on my eheim classic the out hose is much cleaner then the inlet.


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## Fred13

I cant understand how its possible to bypass the media. I mean, structure is so simple on how it works.. Water enters through the prefilter from the side and then flows upwards through the media. How is it possible to bypass? 

Btw i have the jbl 1501 , updated to 1502 with just the filter basket.

And if water bypass media you should have huge air pockets therefore you would hear the filter.

As for the outlet hose, it can be dirty as well. Biofilm and diatoms can establish in the outlet hose.

Please ensure that you have this problem because it sounds really weird to me.


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## Konsa

Hi all
Thanks @dw1305  for the extensive reply.Much appreciated.I think the prefilter is just right as I dont have any flow reduction even when dirty.I doubt that the media is oxygen depleted as it smelling fresh when I open the filter.I know how a filter went bad stinks like rotten eggs before when I used floss and no prefilter and all muck was in filter.Water in tank seems well polished too.
I run surface skimmer that aids the plants in oxigenation too.Just my Tetratec I run on my other tank with less stock and same prefilter  have some more debris in the sponges inside.
Regards Konsa


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## Kayne

Oldguy said:


> The power heads were low cost Hidom power heads powering CO2 diffusors. The power heads have inline inputs and outputs. One at 1300 litres/286 gals per hr and the other at at 800 litres/177 gals per hr. If starting again I would have both at 286 gal/hr. They were from eBay. The 286 gal and above fit 3/4" plastic pipe work without too much fiddling. The larger goes through a CO2  diffuser and into a 3/4" DIY spray bar. The smaller unit again through a CO2 diffusor but into a DIY swan neck to give a direct current into the tank. The power heads and Ehiem spray bar outlet are all at the back of the tank and hidden by large Anubias
> 
> Hope this is of some use..


Thanks very useful. I'm still learning alot and this forum has been a great help. So not including whatever turnover the eheim gives you you have around 2000 l/h flow rate. Any pictures of your tank around here?



dw1305 said:


> If you have plenty of oxygen going into the filter you probably won't get as much biofilm development, even with a heavy bioload. People vastly over-estimate how much media you physically need for successful nitrification.
> 
> When you open the filter up you can tell a lot about the oxygen levels in the filter by the nature of the biofilm. If it mainly consists of a lot of fine black particles these are the (largely carbon) remnants left when the microbial "low hanging fruit" (short chain carbohydrates, proteins etc.) have been consumed ("oxidised").


Thanks @dw1305 some really good info there and elsewhere on the forum. Really learnt alot about water chemistry and filtration from various posts of yours.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> I doubt that the media is oxygen depleted as it smelling fresh when I open the filter.....Water in tank seems well polished too.


That sounds about right, and I wouldn't worry too much about anything else.





Konsa said:


> I know how a filter went bad stinks like rotten eggs before when I used floss and no prefilter and all muck was in filter.


If you have the "rotten eggs" smell it means that you've had some hydrogen sulphide (H2S) production. When you have anaerobic nitrate reduction (denitrification) you can easily topple over the edge and get <"anoxic sulphate reduction"> which produces H2S. Even then it can smell worse that it really is, because we can detect really low levels of H2S, something like 5 ppb (5 x 10-9).





Kayne said:


> Thanks @dw1305 some really good info there and elsewhere on the forum. Really learnt alot about water chemistry and filtration from various posts of yours.


Thank-you, I hope the posts help, but I'm never entirely sure.

It would be fair to say that the (particularly the buffering/pH & <"cycling/nitrification">) posts have received a mixed reaction.

I think one of the issues is that if you promote ,<"simple techniques"> for successful tank management people don't stagger from one disaster to the next and the whole need for pH buffers, water test kits, anion exchange resins, activated carbon, medications, <"special filtration media">, <"special aquarium lamps">, HMA filters, RO units etc just disappears.

If I tell people (on other forums) that:

rain, or UK tap, water are safe to use in your tank (with certain provisos),
that plants are the most important factor in biological filtration (because "plant/microbe" filtration is much more effective than "microbe only" filtration),
that oxygen is more important than ammonia in biological filtration,
that nitrification is mainly carried out by Archaea in aquariums or
that floating (or emergent) plants are a more sensitive measure of nutrient levels than any test kits,
I will receive a lot of disbelieving comments, but all of these statements can be verified by a quick look at the scientific literature.

Threads like <"The Soil Substrate or Dirted...">, and the images from it, should be linked in all over the WWW, they are simple mechanisms for successful tank management.

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy

Kayne said:


> Any pictures of your tank around here?


Some old pics. Will try and take a few newer ones. Not much of a photographer. 

 Transition to high tech, cryptocorynes showing strong growth








Low tech many years ago. The Royal Farlowella were a spawning pair. Lost the lot in a heater malfunction. Restocked with small fish only as above.







Showing tank set into chimney, flush with the wall. Tank needs some thinning out! That will teach me to have a holiday.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Oldguy said:


> Showing tank set into chimney, flush with the wall.


Hippeastrums are nice. I particularly like the white one, do the flowers last long? I have a similar dark red one to yours, but it flowers later (March) and the flowers only last a couple of days.

I've just retrieved a <"Large Narcissus Bulb fly"> maggot from the <" H. Exotic Star"> (in the Orchids thread), but it is quite a big bulb so it should recover.  I know now that if a _Hippeastrum_ suddenly starts producing a lot of offset bulbs this is likely to be the reason.

I don't have any snowdrops or _Narcissus_ left in the garden in sunny spots, only in the shady areas, which I assume is also down to the Bulb flies.  The adult fly is quite interesting, it is a <"Bumblebee mimic"> and you could probably collect twenty from out garden on any sunny day in May.

cheers Darrel


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## Konsa

Hi all
Was doing maintenance and opened filter.I can clearly see flow has hit all media in the filter and has about 50 mini snails on bottom of the filter too.
Filter as expected spotlessly clean 
Regards Konsa


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Konsa said:


> has about 50 mini snails on bottom of the filter too.


They maybe <"eating the biofilm">, but I don't think it matters.

I have Snails, _Asellus_ (and often Black-worms) in the filters, they seem to find their way in even with a pre-filter sponge etc. probably when they are pretty small. I don't tend to open the filters up very often, so it maybe more noticeable because of that. 

The linked paper also suggests that high hydraulic rates aren't a barrier to microbial nitrification, but that high organic carbon levels are. 

So if you have a disagreement with a poster who tells you that filters are designed to suck up organic debris and that the bacteria can't process the ammonia if the water is flowing too quickly, just post the link to  <"Application of high rate nitrifying trickling filters to remove low concentrations of ammonia from reclaimed municipal wastewater"> and then stand well back.

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy

dw1305 said:


> do the flowers last long?


About ten days. We have 18 in pots in the conservatory all bought over many years. Wife won't let me buy any more. They get watered with aquarium water. The photo was from last year, they are all dormant at present.

Must be on the lookout for the Narcissus Bulb fly. Mimics are interesting but this one sounds like bad news. I thought lily beetles were bad enough.


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Oldguy said:


> I thought lily beetles were bad enough.


We have those as well, and <"Solomon's [URL='https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=698']                   Seal Sawflies">. [/URL]


Oldguy said:


> About ten days. We have 18 in pots in the conservatory all bought over many years.


I might be tempted, do you know the cultivar name of the white one?





Oldguy said:


> Wife won't let me buy any more.


I'm just about to have another divide of the _Eucharis_ from the same thread.



 

I'll donate it, just tell her it isn't a _Hippeastrum, _and you didn't buy it.

cheers Darrel
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=698


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## Oldguy

dw1305 said:


> cultivar name of the white one


Sorry I don't. I just buy them at Lidl/Aldie and take a chance on them being like the picture on the box. They are meant for the Christmas trade, but with care and feeding post flowering, they grow and flower year in and year out. Sometime I get one from a garden centre that has gone past its sell by date in the discount stand. You then know what the flower will be like. Obviously their flowering time moves to a more natural time of the year. (I did, however, buy some beauties from Holland).



dw1305 said:


> it isn't a _Hippeastrum_


Like how your mind works, an Amaryllis by another name. Would love some thanks. Will pm you


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## Kayne

dw1305 said:


> Thank-you, I hope the posts help, but I'm never entirely sure


They do and thank you for more reading in that post. I've spent half my day reading through them and inevitably following more links in those posts too

Now a question where do you get your pre filter foam blocks from. Saw an old post by you where you use a foam sheet and rolled it and sewed it up but I think ive seen more recent ones where you said you buy a block. Although i do have a block in my current internal im not sure what ppi it is and it also has a hole all the way through the middle so i wouldnt be able to use that - though I could probably source the replacement foam and use it. Do you then perforate the intake pipe or just allow it to pull the water through the end via the sponge?

@Oldguy that tank is really nice. Looks super clean - didnt think people really used UG filters anymore as they were considered outdated?

Still no nearer to picking a filter. I need to measure the cabinet but im drawn to the jbl or aquael as aside from the fx6 (which i know wont fit in the cabinet) they are the highest flow rated. Though ive heard lots of good things about eheim (Maybe on older filters but the new ones cant be terrible)


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## ian_m

Kayne said:


> Now a question where do you get your pre filter foam blocks from.


https://www.finest-filters.co.uk/
I have bought Juwel compatible foams from them, work fine.


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Kayne said:


> Saw an old post by you where you use a foam sheet and rolled it and sewed it up but I think ive seen more recent ones where you said you buy a block.


I still do a bit of both. 

Because <"Rainbow Koi"> is convenient for me I usually go and get a drilled foam block from them when I'm in Melksham doing the shopping. They look like either PPI15 or PPI20 sponge. I always get the 12" x 4" x 4" blocks and just cut them down to size.

An advantage of the blocks is that you can sit a power-head on top of the block, it means you don't have to worry about the cr*p non-sticking sucker set that are meant to keep the power-head in position. You can see this arrangement in this thread <"Filtering the scape">. I'm still using the same power-head and sponge on that tank.





Kayne said:


> Although i do have a block in my current internal im not sure what ppi it is and it also has a hole all the way through the middle so i wouldnt be able to use that


I used to carefully silicon the open ended sponges to a plain 4" white tile, but over time they've all come unstuck, so now I just put a scrunch of sheet foam (to block the hole) and sit the sponge on the tile. I also use the foam sheets to make the "collars" that ensure a close fit between the pipe and the sponge. Any synthetic thread does to sew them up with (I use fishing line or acrylic button thread). 

I have some filter ends where I drilled holes in a bit of pipe that was a snug fit in the central hole, but more recently I just used the Maxijet or Eheim inlet strainer scaffolds (I had these anyway) and then used the foam collar to ensure a snug fit. 

Either method works. 

cheers Darrel


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## Oldguy

dw1305 said:


> I might be tempted, do you know the cultivar name of the white one


In a garden centre looking at forbidden flowers, they had a white cultivar for sale called 'Arctic White'. Picture on the label looked like mine.


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## Oldguy

Kayne said:


> considered outdated?


They really work and I am outdated, still think silicon glue is magic. As @dw1305 pond stuff is worth looking at for aquarium use. Usually more keenly priced. Some pond sponge filters will take a 3/4" plastic tube, many power heads will push into that diameter and a demijohn cork bung will fit the other end. (Drill lots of holes in the pipe)


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Oldguy said:


> they had a white cultivar for sale called 'Arctic White'.


Brilliant, I've found another white cultivars "Mont Blanc" with a similar flower, so it  likely to be one or the other.

cheers Darrel


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## Kayne

Oldguy said:


> They really work and I am outdated, still think silicon glue is magic. As @dw1305 pond stuff is worth looking at for aquarium use. Usually more keenly priced. Some pond sponge filters will take a 3/4" plastic tube, many power heads will push into that diameter and a demijohn cork bung will fit the other end. (Drill lots of holes in the pipe)


I think as long as things work and your fish are healthy and the tanks happy (which yours looks to be really clean) thats the important thing regardless of the filtration method used and clearly the comments ive seen previously that UG are no good for planting is incorrect as your plants look great.

I know the filter sponge in my old external all came from sheets of pond sponge that I'd bought super cheap for the pond filter (moved house now so dont have the pond) and used the excess for the external.

Looking at the link @dw1305 posted for the foam blocks they look pretty similar to whats in my internal so I might see how much a replacement one is to compare with those not sure on the ppi of it though but might be able to check that on the packaging.

Thanks guys, appreciate all the help


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## fishbro

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but just thought I would chime in. I have changed my oase biomaster 600t for a jbl e1902 and the flow rate is night and day. The water has never looked clearer as I can now have a big wad of floss in one of the trays. What I don't like is that the jbl sounds fairly loud hum in comparison. The hoses are a lot bigger which isn't a bother for me, but if you any anything inline then it will be an issue.

Ideally I would have taken a punt on the new aquael filter as it looks really good, but it was a couple of cm too big to fit in my cabinet


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## Kayne

fishbro said:


> Haven't read the whole thread yet, but just thought I would chime in. I have changed my oase biomaster 600t for a jbl e1902 and the flow rate is night and day. The water has never looked clearer as I can now have a big wad of floss in one of the trays. What I don't like is that the jbl sounds fairly loud hum in comparison. The hoses are a lot bigger which isn't a bother for me, but if you any anything inline then it will be an issue.
> 
> Ideally I would have taken a punt on the new aquael filter as it looks really good, but it was a couple of cm too big to fit in my cabinet


Hi Fishbro. Looking at the specs as i've been doing to try and help decide the jbl 1902 has a higher stated flow rate than the oase to start with being 1900l compare to the oase's 1250l

Thank you for the input - appreciate hearing real world experiences of the various filters that have been mentioned so far


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> Hi Fishbro. Looking at the specs as i've been doing to try and help decide the jbl 1902 has a higher stated flow rate than the oase to start with being 1900l compare to the oase's 1250l
> 
> Thank you for the input - appreciate hearing real world experiences of the various filters that have been mentioned so far



Yeah the flow rate is night and day! While I feel the build quality and noise on the oase is better, the flow was just dire and that meant running minimal media so the water was never that clear. I am on a 200L tank, fairly heavy stocking with fish. Have only cleaned it once since I got it and it really didn't need it as there is plenty of media, could probably get away with cleaning it every 3 months.

If oase would make a 2000lph filter with the dimensions and design of the existing biomaster, that would definitely be my go-to, but for now the jbl wins for those of us with minimal cabinet space


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## Kayne

@fishbro wonder if you can verify the dimensions for the 1902 as jbl list 2 different sizes on their site and I'm not sure which is right. As you have the filter you will be able to confirm

240/584/385 mm l/h/w 
or
200/564/235mm l/h/w

Oddly they do the same on their 1502 as well and actually depending on which is correct will depend whether I can get the jbls in the cabinet or not.


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> @fishbro wonder if you can verify the dimensions for the 1902 as jbl list 2 different sizes on their site and I'm not sure which is right. As you have the filter you will be able to confirm
> 
> 240/584/385 mm l/h/w
> or
> 200/564/235mm l/h/w
> 
> Oddly they do the same on their 1502 as well and actually depending on which is correct will depend whether I can get the jbls in the cabinet or not.



Hi mate, I just checked mine and it roughly matches the second set of diamensions. Couldn’t check to the mm as pulling it out is a nightmare lol. I really like the filter, just wish it was quieter.


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## Kayne

Think ive got down to the JBL e1902 the eheim pro 4 600 or the aquael utlramax. Found all of them for pretty much the same price. The jbl and the aquael have the better flow rates of the bunch. 

I watched the pondguru videos for the eheim and the aquael and i'm skeptical about the issues he ranted about on the eheim as the damage was already done so of course it would be harder to fit the baskets together. If careful from the start I dont think it would present much of an issue. 

If anyone can find some other reviews whereof any of the filters would appreciate it. Dont plan on spending on a filter for another 5 years so want to make the right choice now.


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## Siege

From your shortlist Eheim Pro 4 600 all the way mate. It’ll last you 20+ years!

Ignore the pond guru bloke!


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## Kayne

Thanks @Siege my only consideration that's making me lean away from the Eheim is actually that the flow rate is less than the other two.

What makes me laugh with pondguru is that he spent ages slamming the eheim issues (as he saw them) but actually never mentions similar things on other filters nor does he review the running of the filter.


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## Siege

Yes I think pond guru and Eheim have had a falling out at some time. I’m guessing they didn’t take too kindly to him chucking their media in the bin!

One thing to consider is the Eheim will get near to the quoted flow rates. I’ve no experience if the other 2. I know people rate the Jbl filters though, but check the hose sizes on those for glassware. And also what can fit in your cabinet of course. Apologies if you’ve alreday thought about those things!


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## Kayne

Thanks again @Siege not overly fussed with the hose sizes as I don't have any inline stuff or glassware to worry about. All 3 lucky enough will fit in the cabinet as well. I'm tempted by the eheim as a lot of people rate their media highly as well

With it being a low tech and it having been running fine for 5 years on a filter giving a max of 400lph but probably much lower in reality, then even with the eheim only being a max of 1250lph compared to the jbl 1900 or the aquael at 2000 then actually everything is a massive improvement on what was there before.


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> Thanks again @Siege not overly fussed with the hose sizes as I don't have any inline stuff or glassware to worry about. All 3 lucky enough will fit in the cabinet as well. I'm tempted by the eheim as a lot of people rate their media highly as well
> 
> With it being a low tech and it having been running fine for 5 years on a filter giving a max of 400lph but probably much lower in reality, then even with the eheim only being a max of 1250lph compared to the jbl 1900 or the aquael at 2000 then actually everything is a massive improvement on what was there before.



Throwing my 2 pence into the ring. I did have that eheim filter briefly but it was damaged out of the box and wouldn't prime (the little flap snapped clean off). Apart from that it did seem like a decent filter, though I wasn't a fan of the intake and outlet (I don't use glassware myself, I don't trust myself not to break things  )

The JBL does have the larger hoses which shouldn't be an issue if you are not using anything inline. It does make them a bit of a handful to manage behind the cabinet though. The flow rate is superb, I am using mine just with the right angle piece (no spray bar etc) and point slightly to the back of the tank. Having the co2 diffuser just underneath and the heater in the flow path means good distribution around the tank. Initially I was concerned that the flow rate would be too much for the fish and shrimp, but everyone seems happy and I haven't noticed any shrimp getting sucked up into the filter so far. 

The JBL can be a bit hard to prime and I think this is just down to the huge hoses, you need a lot more water in the loop to get it going. I replaced one of the foam trays with bio media from the previous filter and also added a huge wad of filter floss which seems to have had minimal impact on the flow rate. Right now it's been running almost 2 months without a clean and I am not noticing any degradation in water quality, clarity or flow (with weekly 50% changes). Unlike the Oase which I had to clean weekly, I think it's fairly safe to leave the JBL a good 3 months between cleanings.

The plastics quality felt better on the eheim. The plastic on the jbl just feels that little bit cheaper, but it is still more than good enough for a filter.

I too would be skeptical about pondguru, he is obviously trying to push his filter media very strongly with his videos. He also appeared to break the oase filter from what I could tell. To remove the hose connection you need to first remove the pre filter, but he didn't and just forced the lever for the hoses with a loud snap.


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## Kayne

fishbro said:


> Apart from that it did seem like a decent filter, though I wasn't a fan of the intake and outlet


Thanks Fishbro appreciate the feedback. What didn't you like about the intake and outlet on the eheim? Was it the filter end or the in tank ends?


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> Thanks Fishbro appreciate the feedback. What didn't you like about the intake and outlet on the eheim? Was it the filter end or the in tank ends?



On the tank end, I'm just not a fan of the friction fit style (fitting the hoses over the inlet/outlet without any clamps). I'm probably just paranoid, but after having a leak once before I will always prefer a solid feeling connection. The optional upgraded intake and outlet weren't that good either really, just didn't suit my tank.


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## Kayne

Ah ok, thought all filters did the same with that so hadn't really considered it. 

Might give up trying to decide and give the choices to the OH and see what decision gets made there.


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> Ah ok, thought all filters did the same with that so hadn't really considered it.
> 
> Might give up trying to decide and give the choices to the OH and see what decision gets made there.



I think if Oase would make a 2000lph filter with the bio master design and a 300-500w heater they would sell a lot of them. I think it’s a good designer and has plenty of media capacity but the flow rate is just too low imo


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## Kayne

Decision made. Gave the 3 options to the OH with a run down of the main points of each and didn't give my thoughts and OH picked the Eheim which was where I had been leaning anyway.

Thanks everyone for the input

That said is there anything I need to change in the setup? Also cheapest ive found from reputable retailers is swell, any other places to check?


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## Siege

I like Eheim parts shop 

https://www.eheim-aquarium-parts.co.uk/

Their prices are good and they are in this country so no probs with warranty and they are quite helpful.


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## Millns84

Siege said:


> Yes I think pond guru and Eheim have had a falling out at some time. I’m guessing they didn’t take too kindly to him chucking their media in the bin!



I'm not sure about that - He's owned Pro 2 Eheims himself as some of his older videos shows him setting them up (I've subscribed to his channel for years).

He's also modified a 2213, Ecco Pro 300 and an Eheim internal as part of the "Pimp My Filter" series and wasn't negative about them - It really does seem to be something to do with the Pro 4 and I recall he said that he preferred the Pro 3.

I'm personally leaning towards Aqua One myself given the three year warranty and a plethora of websites offering parts. The Ocellaris 3000 looks like an absolute monster.

The Aquamanta range looks interesting too - Sold via Maidenhead Aquatics and are basically older re-branded Aqua One filters, together with the long guarantee and parts sold via Maidenhead Aquatics. They do a 2700lph version which again is a bit of a beast so would be ideal for my Rio 450.


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## Kayne

In case anyone is looking for eheims. Charterhouse Aquatics are selling at £209. aquaristikshop.com for £183.

If you do the price match on charterhouse you can get it at the lower price.


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## fishbro

Kayne said:


> In case anyone is looking for eheims. Charterhouse Aquatics are selling at £209. aquaristikshop.com for £183.
> 
> If you do the price match on charterhouse you can get it at the lower price.



Charterhouse are ok but their returns aren’t great. I sent back a broken filter and it took over two weeks to get a refund. Staff seemed polite enough but it just didn’t seem organised. 

Aquaristikshop is probably the worst I’ve dealt with. Plenty of communication before I bought the items and then nothing after. Took almost two weeks to dispatch, arrived faulty and wouldn’t answer half a dozen emails. Opened a PayPal dispute which they never answered so PayPal ruled in my favour.


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## Kayne

fingers crossed i have no issues with charterhouse or the filter in that case as its being delivered today.


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