# open wound on female discus



## Madhav (22 Feb 2020)

Hi,
I have a breeding pair of discus in my 5ft planted tank. not sure how it happened but it injured on its side. It was so tiny when i notice a week ago, just noticed the couple are not approaching me for food when I am back from office, so I took a close look and realized the wound is now around 6-10mm wide. small wite spot on the left discus in attached pics. I am planning to transfer to a quarantine tank tomorrow...
The question is
transfer both male and female to treat with melafix or just the wounded female only?
does this separation affects their bonding?


----------



## Fisher2007 (22 Feb 2020)

I'd be inclined to move both.  She will be less stressed having the male with her

Unless of course you have reason to question the male and whether or not he might be responsible


----------



## Conort2 (22 Feb 2020)

Madhav said:


> Hi,
> I have a breeding pair of discus in my 5ft planted tank. not sure how it happened but it injured on its side. It was so tiny when i notice a week ago, just noticed the couple are not approaching me for food when I am back from office, so I took a close look and realized the wound is now around 6-10mm wide. small wite spot on the left discus in attached pics. I am planning to transfer to a quarantine tank tomorrow...
> The question is
> transfer both male and female to treat with melafix or just the wounded female only?
> does this separation affects their bonding?


I wouldn’t be so hasty in adding melafix, I don’t believe it does a great deal and that looks more like an ulcer rather than an injury caused by another fish or hardscape. Esha products are a much better bet if you can get them in Singapore, Esha 2000 may help. However I’d look at improving tank conditions, the aquarium appears quite dirty. How often do you change the water? Also do you vacuum the substrate as there appears to be a lot of organic matter. 

also what size is the tank? Are there any other fish appeaser from the discus and the corydoras? Are they eating or showing any symptoms? Filtration etc? Will all help paint a better picture so we can help.

cheers

Conor


----------



## Sammy Islam (22 Feb 2020)

I have found the pimafix and melafix to massively reduce filter and pump outputs in the past. It is essentially oil i think, it makes the water look really thick, can be seen if you run a air stone the bubbles are much bigger and slower.


----------



## Madhav (24 Feb 2020)

Fisher2007 said:


> I'd be inclined to move both.  She will be less stressed having the male with her
> 
> Unless of course you have reason to question the male and whether or not he might be responsible


[/QUOTE]


Sammy Islam said:


> I have found the pimafix and melafix to massively reduce filter and pump outputs in the past. It is essentially oil i think, it makes the water look really thick, can be seen if you run a air stone the bubbles are much bigger and slower.





Conort2 said:


> I wouldn’t be so hasty in adding melafix, I don’t believe it does a great deal and that looks more like an ulcer rather than an injury caused by another fish or hardscape. Esha products are a much better bet if you can get them in Singapore, Esha 2000 may help. However I’d look at improving tank conditions, the aquarium appears quite dirty. How often do you change the water? Also do you vacuum the substrate as there appears to be a lot of organic matter.
> 
> also what size is the tank? Are there any other fish appeaser from the discus and the corydoras? Are they eating or showing any symptoms? Filtration etc? Will all help paint a better picture so we can help.
> 
> ...




Yesterday I moved both to another tank and noticed the male is constantly picking the female, not sure it is a kind of romance or what
but I can say the female is not appreciating that.
I still left them both in the same tank but separated with a partition, both can see each other but female feels much safer now, not worried to come up to me when I go near.
Dosing with melafix for now while I try to source Esha 2000, I have only melafix and Paraguard with me at the moment, need to visit the store. Damn Covid-19....

Tank is 5 ft Juwel Rio, Yes you are right its quite dirty. I change 50 to 100L of water every week. I did a 50-60% water change yesterday but still turbid. planning another 50% change again this week, 50% of plant mass removed to give them some room to swim.
filters are 1x eheim 2080 and 1x eheim 2078 with minimum amount of media in both.
around 50x rummynose tetras, 2 pairs of sterbai cories, noticed some eggs ...not sure how many places they scattered.
injured discus is not eating well, the male is eating.
I will do a 50% water change in the current hospital tank and monitor the progress...


----------



## Madhav (24 Feb 2020)

few more here...too bad none hatched so far and I dont have place for another tank.


----------



## alto (24 Feb 2020)

Madhav said:


> Paraguard with me at the moment


I’d sooner dose ParaGuard than Melafix (which while it may reduce water column bacteria (in aquaria) has demonstrated no efficacy against any actual fish pathogens)



Madhav said:


> injured discus is not eating wel


this is a cause for concern - hopefully she will improve with the ParaGuard 
(Feeding medicated food is much more effective/efficient than any bath medications, so look for what’s available ... sometime fish breeders will have more suitable medications, are there any nearby discus specialists)

This is an excellent resource for discus 
Symptom Based Treatment of Common Discus Diseases by Dionigi Maladorno
(thanks to Dave H for continuing to host this fantastic article)


----------



## alto (24 Feb 2020)

Madhav said:


> Tank is 5 ft Juwel Rio, Yes you are right its quite dirty. I change 50 to 100L of water every week. I did a 50-60% water change yesterday but still turbid. planning another 50% change again this week, 50% of plant mass removed to give them some room to swim.
> filters are 1x eheim 2080 and 1x eheim 2078 with minimum amount of media in both



I would suggest giving the tank a good clean, with thorough substrate vacuuming where possible - in areas of stem plants, just trim the tops and place aside for replanting, then you can vacuum these substrate areas as well

(in a bin with water, or stored damp and gently wrapped in clingfilm - this video from George Farmer and Jurijs shows a tank being broken down for transport and rebuilding at The Art of The Planted Aquarium contest (I think there are 3 videos in all))

You could also do a complete rescape in the style of Filipe Oliveira (note how he removes water for the fish bin at the beginning, though fish are caught & transferred later in the process)
VLOG Rescape 

The sort of injury on the female discus suggests a water quality issue 

The filters should also be opened and media rinsed free of debris (use tank water or treated tap water)
Perhaps you should add more mechanical media to the filters (as tank is turbid - I assume this is suspended particles, that your filters should be removing) 
What media do you have in the filters? 
Given the size of your filters, using the recommended amounts of Eheim media should still allow sufficient flow in the aquarium


----------



## Aqua sobriquet (24 Feb 2020)

I had a fish with an injury on its side. I removed it from the tank and carefully patted the wound dry then applied Aloe Vera gel. The wound healed within a few days.


----------



## Madhav (24 Feb 2020)

alto said:


> I would suggest giving the tank a good clean, with thorough substrate vacuuming where possible - in areas of stem plants, just trim the tops and place aside for replanting, then you can vacuum these substrate areas as well
> 
> (in a bin with water, or stored damp and gently wrapped in clingfilm - this video from George Farmer and Jurijs shows a tank being broken down for transport and rebuilding at The Art of The Planted Aquarium contest (I think there are 3 videos in all))
> 
> ...



Eheim 2080 has cermaic rings at the bottom tray and top two trays eheim substrat (not pro) at least 50% of basket capacity. last cleaned a month ago
Eheim 2078 has bottom tray ceramic rings and other 3 trays biohome plus 25% of basket capacity, top tray has purigen 250ml bag, yesterday cleaned.

attached is the tank they are in, you can see its dirty...
you can see the wound on its side.
here is the video link.
https://youtu.be/dlgXz0AzUMI 

puzzled to see male is bullying its partner....


----------



## Madhav (24 Feb 2020)

Aqua sobriquet said:


> I had a fish with an injury on its side. I removed it from the tank and carefully patted the wound dry then applied Aloe Vera gel. The wound healed within a few days.


a bit better now, not scared when i approached, may be tomorrow i will try, if it is not stressed and hiding.

Dosing Paraguard from today...fingures crossed.
active but still not eating


----------



## alto (24 Feb 2020)

If it’s not too stressful, you can certainly gently apply a polysporin type ointment to the wound BUT wear gloves and use a fine mesh net to minimize damage to her slime coat (from the handling)

Given how much she’s clamping her fins, I’d use the ParaGuard (rather than Melafix)

Water temp?
Water change routine?
Tank size? 

It’s not uncommon for healthy fish to harass ill fish, so it’s good you set up the partition

Re filters, I’d add a some poly wool, fine sponge etc to trap fine particles (are you using the coarse blue Eheim sponges?)


----------



## Conort2 (24 Feb 2020)

Madhav said:


> Eheim 2080 has cermaic rings at the bottom tray and top two trays eheim substrat (not pro) at least 50% of basket capacity. last cleaned a month ago
> Eheim 2078 has bottom tray ceramic rings and other 3 trays biohome plus 25% of basket capacity, top tray has purigen 250ml bag, yesterday cleaned.
> 
> attached is the tank they are in, you can see its dirty...
> ...


Sounds like you have a lot of biological filtration (which isn’t a bad thing) but no mechanical filtration like sponges to collect some of the detritus. May be worth putting in some sponges or filter floss to pick up some of the finer waste in the water column. Make sure you keep on top of the filter cleaning with mechanical filtration as you don’t want to start to allow the waste to build up in the filter instead. You want to make sure that the filter is clean and plenty of oxygen is getting to your mechanical filtration. You could always add a pre filter to the externals intakes which would make life easier as they are easy to access and clean, saves you have to open up your filters.

cheers

conor


----------



## Madhav (25 Feb 2020)

alto said:


> If it’s not too stressful, you can certainly gently apply a polysporin type ointment to the wound BUT wear gloves and use a fine mesh net to minimize damage to her slime coat (from the handling)
> 
> Given how much she’s clamping her fins, I’d use the ParaGuard (rather than Melafix)
> 
> ...



Noted on the polysporin, will try to get aloe vera gel and Polysporin this weekend.
already switched to Paraguard now
not clamping fins, moving actively
water temp is close to 29-30deg C
now in 60L hospital tank with everyday water change 25L
Tank is Nisso, 2ft x 1.5ft x1.5 ft roughly

first time i heard about this harassment...own partner.


----------



## Madhav (1 Mar 2020)

Unfortunately I cant rescue her. RIP
She passed away today, 
Original wound healed 90% I thought all is going well, all of a sudden this thing popped up under her gills.
Any idea what's this and how to prevent it?

Next, what about the Male, shall I quarantine him for another 1-2 weeks? He looks active, eating well.

Now I left with Melafix and Epsom salt and aquarium salt. Paraguard finished and no more stocks at pet stores.

Any general medicine to treat him just to make sure?

Esha products not available here, API, Seachem, waterlife, Eiho and some chinese brands available.

I have another 4ft tank with 9 adult discus in it. Is he ok to join them after two weeks?







Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## alto (2 Mar 2020)

Sorry to read this    
(though must admit not terribly surprised (when you mentioned she was not eating) ... so often, what you see externally is only a small reflection of internal issues)

While the male may be be perfectly fine, I would not take the chance (even after some medicating) of returning him to the main discus tank
Though it’s also possible, that whatever impacted the female may also be present in small numbers in the whole group ...
when did you separate this male and female?
what other fish were added to the tank?
how long was the planted tank set up?
is the main discus tank planted as well? 

If you feel strongly about placing the male back into the main group, I’d keep him isolated at least a month
Then place a fish from the main group in the same tank ( separated by partition) - wait several weeks for any disease symptoms  - the article I linked above goes into some detail regarding this process

Even if you cannot source the medications listed, there is a great deal of useful discus husbandry information (that can applied to many aquarium fish in general)


----------



## Madhav (3 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Sorry to read this
> (though must admit not terribly surprised (when you mentioned she was not eating) ... so often, what you see externally is only a small reflection of internal issues)
> 
> While the male may be be perfectly fine, I would not take the chance (even after some medicating) of returning him to the main discus tank
> ...



this pair didnt come in contact with my main discus tank. Male is fine and eating and swimming well,
coming to the front glass when approached.
all along this pair was together in 5ft tank, when I noticed some thing wrong a week ago, just moved
them to a hospital tank separated with a partition on the day I started this topic, a week ago
they were in this planted tank for almost 6 months with 50+ rummy nose and 2 pairs of sterbai cories.
this planted tank setup 4 years plus.
main discus tank is not a planted tank, bare bottom, it is with some wood with anubias and java ferns attached. no co2
no intense lights. water changes 20% every two days, most weekends almost 40-50% water change
all look healthy and eating well.only problem I see is too many suspected males fighting every now and then
but nothing serious. no chasings no hidings
all these 9 disus were bought from the same batch and from same shop and grown together for almost 1.5years.
only thing common is their age, around 1.5years


----------



## alto (4 Mar 2020)

I’d return the ex-pair male to the planted tank (assuming you’ve completed the vacuuming/water changes etc) rather than to the group discus tank (especially as you already have too many males in there)

If all goes well with the male back in the planted tank, after a couple months, I’d consider separating some males out from the main discus tank and adding them to the planted tank - though there will likely be some “discussions” between  the old and new additions ... of course when you do this, there may also be some unrest in the main discus tank


----------



## Madhav (5 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> I’d return the ex-pair male to the planted tank (assuming you’ve completed the vacuuming/water changes etc) rather than to the group discus tank (especially as you already have too many males in there)
> 
> If all goes well with the male back in the planted tank, after a couple months, I’d consider separating some males out from the main discus tank and adding them to the planted tank - though there will likely be some “discussions” between  the old and new additions ... of course when you do this, there may also be some unrest in the main discus tank



I have changed three times 50% of water(not vacuumed the bottom) in these two weeks but turbidity not improved, how to vacuum with all the plants covered 90% of the bottom?
you can clearly see from picture.


----------



## sparkyweasel (5 Mar 2020)

You could try Evolution Aqua Pure if it's available in Singapore. It worked for me on a cloudy tank, but of course the cause may be completely different, but it's worth giving it a try.


----------



## sparkyweasel (5 Mar 2020)

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/rainbowfish-nitrates.50151/#post-497269


----------



## Madhav (22 Mar 2020)

After two weeks of quarantine, and made sure everything is fine, eating weill swimming well and poop is not white etc, I decided to move it to my discus tank since my planted tank is still not ready yet for discus. I think.
So I took chances and added to discus tank and monitored closely for few days.... 
first two days there were long and harsh discussions with three other males individually and some times together tried to bulley this new addition. finally they came to an agreement and moving along amicably.
now no more fights 
but
I spotted this today,  is it an ich at the end of dorsal fin? its eating but not as aggressive as all the rest. swimming well. no fights no clamped fins, no hiding, no flashing, no rubbing.

I am planning to go for epsom salt treatment to reduce stress and clear the tummies. tank is 225L, so whats the suggested dosage?
1.5 tea spoons(7.5ml) or 1.5 table spoons(22.5ml)?
different sites giving different amount..... for me just to reduce stress and act as a mild laxative....

https://youtu.be/1jYY_tbLb_8


----------



## Conort2 (22 Mar 2020)

Madhav said:


> After two weeks of quarantine, and made sure everything is fine, eating weill swimming well and poop is not white etc, I decided to move it to my discus tank since my planted tank is still not ready yet for discus. I think.
> So I took chances and added to discus tank and monitored closely for few days....
> first two days there were long and harsh discussions with three other males individually and some times together tried to bulley this new addition. finally they came to an agreement and moving along amicably.
> now no more fights
> ...


I’d maybe hold fire just for even a day or two, fish do get marks on their fins and bodies and it may simply be that. Normally with ich you’ll also get clamped fins and heavy breathing before spots even appear. The fish looks to be in great health hence the reason me doubting the ich. You want to resist adding medications really if you can.

cheers

Conor


----------



## Madhav (5 Apr 2020)

Conort2 said:


> I’d maybe hold fire just for even a day or two, fish do get marks on their fins and bodies and it may simply be that. Normally with ich you’ll also get clamped fins and heavy breathing before spots even appear. The fish looks to be in great health hence the reason me doubting the ich. You want to resist adding medications really if you can.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Conor



Thanks Conor,
You are right, not sure what was it but its gone in a couple of days. all are fine with no symptoms at all.
looks perfetctly healthy.

added 1.5 tea spoons, 7.5 ml of epsom salt, tank is about 240L, by now all might have displaced due to water changes.


----------



## Madhav (5 Apr 2020)

to give an idea how they look now...


----------



## Madhav (5 Apr 2020)

here they are
any hint which male which is female is appreciated.


----------

