# Overdosed Flourish Excel - Nightmare!!



## REDSTEVEO

My journal 'A Shady Glen' tells the story of the setup so I won't go into that. Needless to say I have started the usual battle with staghorn hair algae. Having read all there was to read about algae on this forum I went for the Flourish Excel treatment. I ordered it off the web and it came yesterday. So I drained 50% of the tank, put some of the liquid into a spray bottle (undiluted)  and sprayed away.

Filled the tank back up added some more as per the recommended dosage and went to bed. Came down this morning   and there were three dead cardinal tetras, two ember tetras and an Otto floating on the top and the rest of the fish weren't looking too happy either. So fished them out, did a third water change and went to work. Phone in work goes about 12:30, its the missus, "Er Steve some of your fish are dead and floating" 

Convinced the boss that there was an emergency at home and rushed home to sort it. Five more Cardinal tetras dead and another two ember tetras.   No one to blame except for myself really, in my impatience with the hair algae I think I overdosed the stuff and not only nuked the hair algae but some of my fish as well. Cardinals were massive as well, cost me Â£3.95 each from TGM. So Â£31.60 worth of cardinals in the bin I drained 50% of the water, refilled it and now I'll just have to wait and see. The only good news is that the hair algae has been well and truly nuked, trouble is so have some of my mosses, java ferns and Bolbitus.

Now I am dead wary about putting any more Excel in :?: because I am not sure what will happen to the fish.

Patience is a virtue. So if you are thinking about using this stuff, great it certainly seems to do the business, but learn from my mistake and take it easy.

Cheers,

Steve.


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## Garuf

You can get wild cardinals from paws for thought for 99p . That's still a tragedy though it's always gutted to kill your fish.


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## REDSTEVEO

Wild Cardinals, 99 pence, Paws for Thought, I'll have a look at that. Are they mail order though? I've never bought live fish by post. How does it work?

Steve.


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## Garuf

Oh they're not mail order they're just a pet shop really, they just happened to be dead good on prices. I was under the assumption that circa Â£1 was the going rate? Apparently not!


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## howanic

It's so sad to hear about your fish. but thank you for sharing so that others can learn from your mistake. I overdose excell too (though not quite as much as you   )  Each time I add a little extra but I'll definately be more careful from now on. Do you get a film on top of the water when you use excell?


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## FishBeast

That is terrible news. Its all learning. I have lossed probably 200-300 shrimp learning if that helps.


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## REDSTEVEO

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the sympathy votes, it gets worse. I came down this morning and the water looked all milky and smelled a bit funny and all but two fish were still alive.    Another 50% water change, no fish left in tank now. I am just going to have to wait and see how it develops from here. I re-measured the ammonia and fortunately that was fine so hopefully no further algae blooms. Lights out and C02 is switched off for now.

I just hope my mosses, java fern and bolbitus recover now.

Will keep you posted.

Steve


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## plantbrain

Tough lesson, so make sure others realize not to get into the mind set that says, more is better when it comes to Excel, or CO2, and indirectly, light.

Folks just do not give this stuff respect till they kill their fish and toast plants.
Fix the root issue with algae, do not add more and more CO2/Excel till you fry things.

Excel and CO2 are the two most toxic things aquarist overdose.
I've never met anyone that's ever killed their fish with KNo3 or KH2PO4 or traces, or GH overdosing........ 

Never.

Could it happen? Yep, but is there much risk?
Nope.

But many freak over ferts...........then go the other way with Excel/CO2 and lack of water changes.
Makes little sense. Tough lesson, so make sure others to do not repeat it.
Many aquarist have to kill things before they learn no matter what others tell them also.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## flygja

Any idea how much you actually dosed? I have a 160L tank with ~140L of water and at one point, I was dosing 40mL of Excel per day for a few days in a row. I also inject 2-3 bps of CO2 at the same time through an inline reactor. Did not get any fish or shrimp deaths. 

Perhaps your fauna were affected when all the Excel was added into half a tank of water?


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## REDSTEVEO

plantbrain said:
			
		

> Tough lesson, so make sure others realize not to get into the mind set that says, more is better when it comes to Excel, or CO2, and indirectly, light.
> 
> Folks just do not give this stuff respect till they kill their fish and toast plants.
> Fix the root issue with algae, do not add more and more CO2/Excel till you fry things.
> 
> Excel and CO2 are the two most toxic things aquarist overdose.
> I've never met anyone that's ever killed their fish with KNo3 or KH2PO4 or traces, or GH overdosing........
> 
> Never.
> 
> Could it happen? Yep, but is there much risk?
> Nope.
> 
> But many freak over ferts...........then go the other way with Excel/CO2 and lack of water changes.
> Makes little sense. Tough lesson, so make sure others to do not repeat it.
> Many aquarist have to kill things before they learn no matter what others tell them also.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom Barr




Cheers Tom, tough lesson indeed!! Patience was never one of my strong points especially in the face of adversity, i.e. algae something I detest. I should have added the stuff with a lot more respect for what it could do, I took the more is better approach and look what happened. Bolbitus and Java ferns have all turned black, mosses, Hemianthus, Uticulara all wiped out. I think the main mistake I made was that as researched on this forum I used a spray bottle and sprayed the stuff liberally all over the plants that were affected by the algae. This might not have been a problem if I had diluted it instead of adding it neat undiluted. How can anyone be so stupid with only one head.

On a slightly positive note the other foreground plants and leafy stem plants that did not come into contact with the undiluted Excel have greened up really nicely and seem to be doing better than before, so I can see some benefit. I have been giving it a few days to see if any of the plants affected show any signs of recovery but so far there is no sign.

I might have to bite the bullet and detach them from the rocks and wood, sling them out and replace with new plants. I will take some photographs tonight and post them here so people can see what damage was done and hopefully, like you say will learn from my bad experience.

Cheers,

Steve.


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## REDSTEVEO

flygja said:
			
		

> Any idea how much you actually dosed? I have a 160L tank with ~140L of water and at one point, I was dosing 40mL of Excel per day for a few days in a row. I also inject 2-3 bps of CO2 at the same time through an inline reactor. Did not get any fish or shrimp deaths.
> 
> Perhaps your fauna were affected when all the Excel was added into half a tank of water?



Hi, it is difficult to say how much was dosed using the spray bottle but I would guess about 10 -20 mls (undiluted straight onto the plants  ) I then filled the tank back up before adding the recommended dosage as per the instructions on the bottle, which if I remember correctly was 5mls for every 10 litres following a 40% water change.

Either way the mistake was spraying the Excel straight on to the plants undiluted.

As Tom says a tough lesson!!

Look and learn people.

Steve


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## George Farmer

Sorry to hear about your woes, Steve, but thanks for sharing with the UKAPS community.

Undiluted Excel sprayed directly on to most living things will likely do much harm, as you've learnt the hard way.

A technique I have used is to drain the tank, then carefully paint on Excel with a small paintbrush the affected areas.  

You can fill a measuring cap to 5ml and using your paintbrush ensure you physically cannot overdose.

Think laser-guided bomb vs. carpeting bombing.  The first you can use very little explosive to ensure max. destruction but minimal collatoral damage.  The 2nd, well, look at your tank... 

All the best with the recovery, and thanks again for sharing.


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## sanj

Garuf said:
			
		

> Oh they're not mail order they're just a pet shop really, they just happened to be dead good on prices. I was under the assumption that circa Â£1 was the going rate? Apparently not!



Hmm maybe in the wild lands of the north 


Sorry to hear about the loss Redsteveo, most of us will make some bad and expensive mistakes in the hobby at some time. It is good that you shared, maybe some others will avoid this.


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## REDSTEVEO

*Re: Overdosed Flourish Excel - Nightmare!! Photo's added*

Thanks everyone for the words of condolence. Just in case words are not enough here are the photographs of the damage caused. Remember this was my fault, not a fault with the product.  

To see how the tank was looking before I overdosed the Flourish Excel see the Journal 'A Shady Glen' for the photos.






In this picture you can see the difference between the moss that got treated (nuked with neat Excel) and the lucky moss that had the lucky escape.





Not sure if this bit will recover or not?





This is the same bit with more in the background.





Damage to Java Fern and Bolbitus.





Mosses along the top of the Eggshell Crate that were nice and green and coming on well, not now though.





Damage to more moss, and the small bits of Riccia as well as the Hemianthus that was growing on the rock.





I can't remember the name of this plant but the leaves are falling to pieces and I don't know why :?   









Stem plants seem relatively unharmed.





Same here.





This Java Fern was below the water line when I used the spray and is undamaged.





I was going to remove all of the damaged plants immediately, but then I thought that this would be another knee jerk reaction and maybe I just need to be patient and see if any of them recovered or not, otherwise I would never know and would not be able to share the information with you guys on the UKAPS site.

In the meantime if anyone has got any nice moss or Java Fern or Bolbitus going spare I would be very grateful. I am skint at the moment but would be willing to make a donation. Please PM me if you can help.

Cheers,

Steve.


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## howanic

Really sorry can't help you with plants as I've stripped my tank for the moment. but before you give up completely try removing all leaves from the java fern and bolbitus. I think they may have a chance of recovery.


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## cedarwood

George Farmer said:
			
		

> Sorry to hear about your woes, Steve, but thanks for sharing with the UKAPS community.
> 
> Undiluted Excel sprayed directly on to most living things will likely do much harm, as you've learnt the hard way.
> 
> A technique I have used is to drain the tank, then carefully paint on Excel with a small paintbrush the affected areas.
> 
> You can fill a measuring cap to 5ml and using your paintbrush ensure you physically cannot overdose.
> 
> *Think laser-guided bomb vs. carpeting bombing.  The first you can use very little explosive to ensure max. destruction but minimal collatoral damage.  The 2nd, well, look at your tank... *
> All the best with the recovery, and thanks again for sharing.



George,

Are you sure you don't still want that job teaching in TMS?.... The job is still yours if you want it  

Cedarwood
(AKA Chris Dowsett - TMS)


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## LondonDragon

Was dosing easycarbo once and a threadfin rainbow swam just under when I was dosing it, the fish nose dived into the substrate and died very quickly, some spot dosing killed most of my fissidens and mosses in the past also! 

Oh and it burned holes in my fingers! So I have now stopped buying it, just used the last of the stuff I had and that's it. (the holes in the fingers are almost gone  )


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## GHNelson

Hi gang
I had a similar experience not with live stock though.
Having a huge Anubis  with a few black-brush/green spot algae leaves on it i decided to give it a spray with diluted easycarb......big big mistake   
It must have had at least 40 to 50 individual plants coming of one major rhizome price to purchase Â£50/Â£60 easy.
It was well and truly nuked......nuclear fusion had taken place overnight and i was gutted.  
Managed to salvage a few pieces not many out of 10"x10" plant,never again will I use easycarb to kill algae.
So take heed as Russ Abbott would say 
Take care with this stuff.
We live and learn.
hoggie


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