# Windswept Eternity



## Tim Harrison

Time for a new scape...

I’ve still got a fair amount of stuff to buy for this one, and some decisions to make so not much is set in stone.

Aquarium:    Custom built optiwhite 60 litres 60x40x25(h) in cms
Cabinet:    IKEA Besta (reinforced)
Filter:    Ehiem Ecco Pro 300 (750l/h)
Light:    Undecided, probably Ecotech Radion XR15w
Lily Pipes:    Nano of some description Cal Aqua Labs Nano Efflux Inflow X1 and Outflow F1
Heater:    Hydor 200 ETH inline
CO2:    Fire Extinguisher 2Kg
Regulator:  Up Dual Stage
Bubble Counter: CO2 Art Precision Metal with Built-in check valve
Atomizer:  Original Up Inline
Substrate:    Colombo Flora-Base (black) normal and powder or maybe ADA Amazonia
Rocks:    Ryuoh Stone
Wood     Manzi
Fertz:  EI, All in one macro and micro Tropica Specialised Fertiliser
Plants:  mosses, carpet plants and small stems
Fish:  celestial danio





More to follow...


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Looking good so far  Subscribed, getting ready for a new set up myself so hopefully I'll pick up some invaluable tips. What's the cabinet? going white gloss myself.


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## zozo

Cant wait! Nice puzzle  I guess it will take you a while to try out and decide what to use of all that mass of hardscape in that little tank you got there.


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## parotet

Subscribed Troi! We need more info please...


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## Alexander Belchenko

Looks very serious.


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## Rahms

looks a similar size to what I'm going to be setting up in a few months.  However, I'm missing the handy boxes of hardscape... Looks good!


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## Edvet

Are you sure you can fit all those stones and all the wood in that  tank? No room for water. Or is that a new style....................


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## AverageWhiteBloke

Maybe a paludarium


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks all for the kind words and encouragement...


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Looking good so far  Subscribed, getting ready for a new set up myself so hopefully I'll pick up some invaluable tips. What's the cabinet? going white gloss myself.


Haha...not sure about that...tips on how not to do stuff maybe The cabinet is a modified IKEA Besta. No paludarium this time


zozo said:


> Cant wait! Nice puzzle  I guess it will take you a while to try out and decide what to use of all that mass of hardscape in that little tank you got there.


Unfortunately yes...but I guess that's part of the fun/frustration....


parotet said:


> Subscribed Troi! We need more info please...


I've edited the first post with a run down of the equipment spec...hope that's the sort of thing you meant


Alexander Belchenko said:


> Looks very serious.


Yep...all the gear, no idea


Rahms said:


> looks a similar size to what I'm going to be setting up in a few months.  However, I'm missing the handy boxes of hardscape... Looks good!


Thanks...good luck with your scape...


Edvet said:


> Are you sure you can fit all those stones and all the wood in that  tank? No room for water. Or is that a new style....................


My theory is the more hardscape you have the easier it is to create what's rattling around your head...it's not working out that way this time tho'...


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## zozo

Hahaha, only getting more curious now..  I know the funstration already, did over 4 weeks and started 5 times over again with only 6 pieces of wood.

Guess we have to wait patiently.  A shallow tank about your dimensions also is on my wishlist (mine will be about 87x30x25, still have to build it).. But decided to first practice again for a while on a cheap standard size. So I can use inspirations. 

Also used the Colombo but the new pro scape serie they have. The powder type. It's ok till now, but very light stuff, did a dry start with it, worked perfect*. *But hard to plant small species when tank is filled.


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## alto

Troi said:


> Fish: celestial danio


they'll appreciate some dense thickets


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Guess we have to wait patiently.


Patients is a virtue...it could take some time


alto said:


> they'll appreciate some dense thickets


They'll get plenty of those...I've already got more than a few in my low-energy dirt tank, they'll be re-homed when the time is right


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## Alexander Belchenko

I also believe that excessive hardscape makes the design process easier. You just pick what matches to each other and your tank size without regrets.


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## Tim Harrison

Quick iPhone shot of the hardscape so far...lit from above with my desk lamp and backlit with LEDs. I want to keep this scape simple with plenty of room for planting...


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## Ryan Thang To

Nice one. I like it alot. The tank look like the tmc ones.

Cheers
Ryan


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ryan...I spent a Sunday afternoon cleaning up the silicon. It's been water tested since, but I'm still a bit nervous about filling it up again.


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## Tim Harrison

OK...just ordered CAL AQUA LABS Effluxs F1 and Influx X1 lily pipes and Amazonia from our sponsor Aquasabi and Ecotech Radion XR15w from Charterhouse Aquatics.


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## Ryan Thang To

That is some cool gear your buying


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## Vazkez

Troi said:


> Quick iPhone shot of the hardscape so far...lit from above with my desk lamp and backlit with LEDs. I want to keep this scape simple with plenty of room for planting...



Very nice  I love it. Somhow remains Star Trek


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## Tim Harrison

legytt said:


> That is some cool gear your buying


Thanks, I thought it was about time I brought some new gear. LEDs seem to be coming in to their own now and prices are dropping. I think the Radion is considerably cheaper than it was when it first came on to the market


Vazkez said:


> Very nice  I love it. Somhow remains Star Trek


Thanks...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_(Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series)


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## Dantrasy

Wow, very promising start. Subscribed.


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## foxfish

Under pressure Troi


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## Tim Harrison

I know......


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## Tim Harrison

Hardscape evolving...thought I'd use cosmetic sand front left corner...


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## ADA

Very promising


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## tim

Great hardscape mate, following this one for sure.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...I've tried to make it look like a natural formation by lining up the depressions and cracks in the rock to simulate joints and bedding planes...I suppose similar to this...


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## flygja

Hey Troi, would you care to share how you reinforced the IKEA cabinet? Besta cabinets are made from chipboard or compressed sawdust MDF, which expands if water seeps through the laminate. Just curious how have you reinforced it. Thanks!


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## Tim Harrison

Hey flygja...well for a start it's an old Besta unit which is much sturdier than the new version. But basically I've added an extra top piece (see the image above) and brought some extra Besta shelves and used them to reinforce the back (on the outside) to stop the cabinet parallelogramming, and sides (inside) to stop it bulging (see below). All stuck in with no nails type stuff.


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## Tim Harrison

Well anyway, the stuff from Aquasabi arrived today (great service) and the Radion a few days before that (just waiting on the wire hanging kit)...


 


 


 
They're very small and perfectly formed, and will help with the sense of scale...


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## Tim Harrison

Time to shed some proper light on proceedings - the Radion hung and installed...I think - if only I knew how to programme it, the instructions aren't meant for Luddites like me...


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## Ryan Thang To

Looking cool. Kepp up the update

Cheers
Ryan


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## banthaman.jm

Looks great, looking forward to your next update.
Jim


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## Patrick Buff.

Great start and the last rock formation outstanding, looks like the real thing!
I get curious about your plantlist for this one.

Patrick


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys that's really kind of you to say so. I'm not sure about the plant list at the moment, I'm hedging toward HC cuba across the front and sides with a few bits of E. sp. mini and S. repens here and there. I'd probably like more carpet plants but I'm struggling to visualise how they would transition form one to the other naturally.
At the back probably H. Micranthemoides, and some mini red stems - haven't decided which yet but suggestions welcome. 
I may also try to strategically place some mosses on the hardscape, probably Fissidens, T. barbieri, and V. dubyana.


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## Stu Worrall

Looking good Troi


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## Edvet

Looking ace, them rocks like that
How about just thin layer of substrate and only a low carpet, nothing else (maybe just some tine pieces of moss in some cracks)


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Stu, and Ed I think that'd look good; I may give it a try at some point - I'm sure it'll go through more than one transition before I'm finished with it...


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## Deer

I love the light! The fact its so small is great as it doesn't overpower the tank at all. Is it much trouble to drill etc the fixing? I'm hopeless at DIY but this is super looking.


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## Tim Harrison

Hi, thanks, that's one of the reasons I chose it. An even more minimal option is the Kessil Tuna Sun, but it doesn't have the programmability of the Radion. 
No it's not hard to fix, you just need a plumb-bob to make sure it's positioned over the tank correctly and then plugs or fixings to suit the ceiling material. Obviously it's best if you can fix straight in to a joist but I've fixed in to plasterboard using something like this http://www.screwfix.com/p/fischer-self-drill-plasterboard-fixings-metal-35mm-pack-of-100/47347


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## Deer

Thanks, I'm sure that sounds easier than it actually will be for me!  But a lot less complicated than I had thought...
Can't wait to see this planted!


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## ADA

Grab yourself an electric toothbrush from Asda for £10 mate, you'll be on those rocks every other day.


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...I've purchased a Twinstar NANO MkII...well OK I might still end up buying an electric toothbrush...


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## BigTom

Awesome rockscape in those last pics. Just flood it and let it go green


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## JohnC

gonna be fun


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## Tim Harrison

Still not much further along...but I've been tinkering with the hardscape...




On polystyrene to give the scape a little more height, and prevent it getting swamped by the substrate.



Amazonia in..



Additional hardscape...still a work in progress - suggestions welcome.


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## Alexander Belchenko

More small rocks around, increase details, please.


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## flygja

Troi said:


> Hey flygja...well for a start it's an old Besta unit which is much sturdier than the new version. But basically I've added an extra top piece (see the image above) and brought some extra Besta shelves and used them to reinforce the back (on the outside) to stop the cabinet parallelogramming, and sides (inside) to stop it bulging (see below). All stuck in with no nails type stuff.



Thanks Troi


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## Tim Harrison

Some moody iPhone shots of the - probably - finished hardscape. The neon blue of the base glass pane is due to the LED back lighting...


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## Adam78

Looks fantastic, love the natural look of the rock formation, very impressive.


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## Tim Harrison

I decided although I liked the hardscape it wasn't what I was after this time around...so...I changed it...
The plan so far is to have _Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'_ running up the valley with_ Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'_ adding the occasional highlight. _Utricularia graminifolia _flanking the valley amongst the rocks. And predominantly _Hemianthus micranthemoides_ at the back along with _Ludwigia sp 'Mini Super Red'_ adding a splash of colour here and there.


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## Manu

Hi Troi, it looks great, actually prefer it to the previous one, it's got more depth.
Looking forward to see the result with the plants


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## Ryan Thang To

Troi said:


> I decided although I liked the hardscape it wasn't what I was after this time around...so...I changed it...
> The plan so far is to have _Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'_ running up the valley with_ Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'_ adding the occasional highlight. _Utricularia graminifolia _flanking the valley amongst the rocks. And predominantly _Hemianthus micranthemoides_ at the back along with _Ludwigia sp 'Mini Super Red'_ adding a splash of colour here and there.


oh wow. im liking the layout.


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## foxfish

Yep, I think that is the best by far....


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## Crossocheilus

Definitely better than the previous one, the previous one had great textures but in the end it was just a mound, here you've used the same skill to create intricate textures and flow with the rock, but making a much more appealing overall shape.

Sorry if you have said this already but what type of rock is it?

I can't wait to see this planted, I'm sure it'll be great!

Edit: I see it was ryuoh stone.


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## Dantrasy

Yep, better second time 'round. 

I'd be tempted to joint the two at the back with small rocks to complete the V. Or maybe have a tiny crooked opening at the back for hc.


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## Tim Harrison

Wow, thanks for your kind comments guys.


Crossocheilus said:


> ...the previous one had great textures but in the end it was just a mound


Haha...ultimately that's what I thought as well, the planting would have enhanced it a bit but it wouldn't have kept my interest for long. 
I enjoyed constructing it though...it was a learning process. 


Dantrasy said:


> ...I'd be tempted to joint the two at the back with small rocks to complete the V. Or maybe have a tiny crooked opening at the back for hc.


Thanks for the suggestion I did have a small rock forming a point on the last rock on the right, I may put it back. 
But my rationale for leaving it out is really two fold - 
Firstly, it'll eventually be covered in HC anyway - the tank is small and the rocks aren't really that big.
Secondly, it creates the illusion of greater depth perception by allowing the eye to travel beyond the formation - if I complete the "V" it'd be more like a full stop and the illusion would be lost. 
But that said I might complete the "V", so to speak, with _Hemianthus micranthemoides_ and _Ludwigia sp 'Mini Super Red'_ but I plan to trim them so there is open water above which I suppose would be using the same illusion but in a different way.


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi, Awesome rock work on both scapes  I like the second one too


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## Tim Harrison

A retrospective image of the main rocks arranged prior to the Amazonia going in...the finished hardscape is literally the tip of the iceberg. 
After a little regigging the other rocks were added to complete the look.


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## zozo

That Ryuoh Stone is very lovely stone it gives a kind of alien feel, looking at an scenery of another planet. Don't know why but while looking at it i suddenly hear "Flash!! Aaahaaa king of the universe.. Tomtomtom.... Actualy all version you tried till now, all are as beautiful.. Althpugh the last one i like best, it has the most dept to it.. like something is waiting behind the rock to come foreward and show at any time.  You make your patience definitely worth while..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks zozo. I want to get it planted now but I'm going to have to wait till after the summer holidays when I can be around long enough to give it the best possible start...that's testing my patience


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## zozo

I guess we all know that feeling.. Itching hands..  I cant wait either. Btw you have late summer holiday.. Over here its already over half way and holidays ending soon. 
Ps.
Oh!? Did misread.. you said after the summer holiday.


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## Tim Harrison

3 more weeks and counting...


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## Tim Harrison

I didn't like the smaller rocks so I pushed the layout towards the middle and got rid of them - closing the gap. Then I thought why not try some sand?...not sure about it tho'. I'm also not sure about the position of the rock scape, maybe it could do with moving to the right a bit?
The idea was/is to plant HC Cuba in the Amazonia and the stems already mentioned at the back.
Anyway, I thought I'd put it out there for some constructive criticism...thoughts welcome...


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## Zoe

Looks great, I like the rock location and the sand!


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## zozo

Finaly it's going up hill.. Looks great..


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## foxfish

I am not so keen on the piled up soil against the glass but it does look nice.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Another great hardscape, and... Can we have a top view photo please? I'd like to know what at the back, mainly.


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## foxfish

I meant the soil against the front glass not the side glass!


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for your comments guys much appreciated. 
And thanks foxfish I think that's a good observation. I may just put Amazonia back in the middle (which means I can take the stone barricades out and let the soil flow from the sides naturally at a lower level to the front), that's how it was before I decided to try the sand, but I forgot to take a photo
Alex...a top view for you, and anyone else who cares to comment...


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## Alexander Belchenko

Troi said:


> A retrospective image of the main rocks arranged prior to the Amazonia going in...the finished hardscape is literally the tip of the iceberg.
> After a little regigging the other rocks were added to complete the look.



Ouch, somehow I missed that picture without amazonia.
If I were you I'd try to raise those rocks up to the future water surface or even slightly higher.
Not sure it's a good idea right now with sand went in. That would require vacuuming out sand, break everything, emm, not a clever idea.
Wait, it's just your third attempt, at least what you showed us here. Maybe maybe maybe.


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## Alexander Belchenko

Troi said:


> Thanks for your comments guys much appreciated.
> And thanks foxfish I think that's a good observation. I may just put Amazonia back in the middle (which means I can take the stone barricades out and let the soil flow from the sides naturally at a lower level to the front), that's how it was before I decided to try the sand, but I forgot to take a photo
> Alex...a top view for you, and anyone else who cares to comment...



Thank you for this. Not so much room at the back behind the stones. I don't remember what did you plan to plant there. Need to re-read this journal.
The picture above reminds me about waterfall. It needs small artificial waterfall where sand starts. %-)


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## James O

Beware of scrapers remorse 

first scape doesn't do it because you over thought it.  So you escape. Next scape is more natural as you're in the flow.  Then because you see the quality leap between scapes, you have another crack and keep tinkering on and on.  Then eventually you realise you liked the scape 7 versions ago but can't remember how it goes


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## nicpapa

Troi said:


> I decided although I liked the hardscape it wasn't what I was after this time around...so...I changed it...
> The plan so far is to have _Hemianthus callitrichoides 'Cuba'_ running up the valley with_ Eleocharis acicularis 'Mini'_ adding the occasional highlight. _Utricularia graminifolia _flanking the valley amongst the rocks. And predominantly _Hemianthus micranthemoides_ at the back along with _Ludwigia sp 'Mini Super Red'_ adding a splash of colour here and there.



I think this one setup was nice. 
It has more depth. 
You can improve it , wiht raise the left and right back rocks. 
At the last setup  i dont like the empty place right and left, the white sand , and the rocks in the center. 
I think it loose the depth.
Thats is just my opinion, i dont tell you to change.
You can only see the tank.
Do what ever you like.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys some really useful feedback...pretty much confirming my own opinion, any more would be extremely welcome...


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## Dantrasy

tend to agree. rocks need to start wide at the front and angle in towards the back to get the depth.

may i confirm the dimensions of this tank? just 60cm? some friends did* very very* well in iaplc and now i'm inspired/encouraged/forced to get a bigger tank. i like the shallow look.


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## Manu

Hi Troi,
I agree with Nicpapa. I think the previous scape had much more depth, and looked more natural  
Cheers,
Manu


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks...yep the tank is only 60cm.


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## dean

If you go into photography there's the rule of thirds 
Which just makes things work and looks so much more pleasing 
So maybe try applying it to your scape 
I like the sand it reminds me of a valley with a river at the bottom 
Plant species would have to be really small fine leaves to keep in scale with the rocks


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the feedback Dean, I used to be able to count photography as one of my passions (a long time ago) and so I'm aware of the rule of thirds...I think that I'm perhaps a little obsessive about it TBH. That's why I think the scape may need shifting to the right a little. But I also understand that the rules are sometimes made to be broken, that's why I'm asking for opinions


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## Martin in Holland

It's as if I'm in Scotland....well done


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## alto

Troi said:


> A retrospective image of the main rocks arranged prior to the Amazonia going in...the finished hardscape is literally the tip of the iceberg.
> After a little regigging the other rocks were added to complete the look.




Some aspects of this make it my favorite (after the Turtle God of course  ) - the angles of the "path" & the narrow passage leading into the distance ... but much of this was lost when the soil went down (I think this is the same as above???) so need to elevate the rocks with Styrofoam etc.

Also maybe nudge that line of "peaks" on the right as it looks a bit too linear BUT it may be rather less so in real life.

This seems like a perfect scape & opportunity to do a dry start with the HC - you might also play with adding in strands of _eleocharis sp _to help


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## dean

I agree with you about rocks going to the right 
They are so close to being "right" that it just makes me want to move them 
Well done with the rock selection 
I think it's fantastic


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## James O

Troi said:


> Thanks guys some really useful feedback...pretty much confirming my own opinion, any more would be extremely welcome...




Okay, here goes 

To me, the whole point of a shallow tank is that it is easier go bust out thru the top of the tank!

I would take the scape in post #59 and boost the pants out of the rock at the back by 10-12cm.  Use styrofoam etc to make pedestals for the rock, highest at the back and reducing in steps as it comes forward.  Use some Correx board attached to the back of the rear styrofoam to hold a bank of sand/soil that drops to the front glass.  Then in the space behind the bank in a shallower soil bed plant things that will grow up and just break the surface emersed - maybe some amano style Wabi whatsits?

But that's just me 

Brain fart off


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks again guys for taking the time to comment. Wow James that's taking it to a whole different level...plenty to think about


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## zozo

I'm holding back on constructive idea's because i'm fairly new to the concept modern aquascaping.At the beginning i also thought "Hey Troi goes emersed with a shallow scape!?" I guess thats what shallow tanks are all about, why take a shallow tank if you don't want to go emersed. In the emersed perpective i also prefer scape #59 and totaly with james..  But till now i didn't deliver nada to show for, so i just watch and shiver and learn. And see what comes up.. i just know what ever it is i'm gonna like it.


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## alto

Just keep in mind that the more "stuff" in your tank the less water & swimming room for fishes, so keep this in consideration when selecting species 

(just realized that last post wasn't v clear re the eleocharis & HC, the grass helps "matt" the HC in place & you keep it trimmed to sparse leafs so as not to overpower the HC, Amano did this in some early scapes)


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## Tim Harrison

I think for me what's important about a shallow is its aspect ratio, it's typically that of a much larger tank. So the challenge is to create a scaled down version of a bigger scape to maintain that big tank illusion...so for me an emersed element is always that important.   

That said I've been thinking about how to make James suggestion work...others have made similar suggestions elsewhere. The image below was done by a very helpful mod on another aquascaping site, he used photoshop to stretch the scape to add height and width, and I quite like what he's done.

The problem I'm struggling with at the moment though is how to make that work in reality without changing the scape drastically...adding height will reduce width and depth coverage of the rocks so I'd be left with much more open space, and then I'd be compelled to add more rocks or leave bigger gaps.

I'm not sure if that'd work...but in the spirit of discovery I'll probably have a go anyway...

If only rocks were actually stretchy...


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## zozo

Troi said:


> If only rocks were actually stretchy...


Hmm, thats maybe something for our sponsors to think about. "Bob Ross Rocks" 

 It would fly like sweet candies over the counter. Happy little accidents..


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## James O

Troi said:


> ..adding height will reduce width and depth coverage of the rocks...
> 
> .



Sharper, less blunt peaks might help with the width perspective issues maybe?  Can't think straight after some home brew Apple wine 



Troi said:


> If only rocks were actually stretchy...



Lava is stretchy.  Just difficult to scape with


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Hmm, thats maybe something for our sponsors to think about. "Bob Ross Rocks"
> 
> It would fly like sweet candies over the counter. Happy little accidents..


Could be on to something there...maybe I should try scaping with playdoh or plasticine


James O said:


> Sharper, less blunt peaks might help with the width perspective issues maybe? Can't think straight after some home brew Apple wine


Good suggestion, I've decided to go back to the drawing board...in the meantime I could do with some home brew apple wine myself


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## zozo

Troi said:


> Could be on to something there...maybe I should try scaping with playdoh or plasticine



Well lately i was browsing youtube dont know how i ended up there as so often happens. But there seem to be a rather large community of Artificial Terrascape artists making artificial landscapes for display with little puppets like HeMan and skeleton, knights, fantisy characters you see in video games, something like to put in complete army's of little tin soldiers we used to play with in our youger days. Anyway, to the point, found some tutorials how to create true to nature replica landscapes, rock formations, from resins etc.. And i must say  there are some very talented artits out there creating near real rockscapes with peaks, waterfalls and just name it they make it and pull it off. Its impresive what they can accomplish and how real it looks. That hobby has a name but forgot it..


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## Tim Harrison

I've seen these in my LFS - Okiishi replica rocks from Unipac...must admit they look very realistic. 
They have obvious benefits, including less demand on finite natural resources (that is if you don't count the energy and materials needed for manufacturing and transport etc.). 
George did a feature in PFK some time ago http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4607


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## zozo

Troi said:


> George did a feature in PFK some time ago http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=4607


Yes indeed something like that, actualy looks great..  Only making or customizing it takes a totaly different artistic expertise. But the sky would be the limit.
One of the videos i've seen about this, there are better ones around i not finding back again, deleting history.


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## tim

I like this layout a lot Troi, maybe a bit more negative space at the rear of the tank between the rocks would help, ie pathway dropping off the horizon if that makes sense, strong layout though mate with impressive rock work looking forward to seeing it planted.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Tim, that's very encouraging, and I do know what you mean...but which version exactly


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## James O

Hows the plan coming along?


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## Tim Harrison

Hi James thanks for asking...I've emptied the tank for a reset. I'm still thinking what to do, which is OK since I'm not in a position to set it up just yet anyway; I can't dedicate the time needed to give it a good start until the holidays are over. 
Meanwhile, my desktop is filling up with images of inspirational scapes downloaded from the internet.
Hopefully, it should be up and running in a couple of weeks or so


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## James O

Ah the joys of the planning stage.  Where fantasy, dreams and inspiration show us anything is possible......


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## Tim Harrison

I wish...


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## James O

I believe in you Troi


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## Manu

Troi said:


> Thanks zozo. I want to get it planted now but I'm going to have to wait till after the summer holidays when I can be around long enough to give it the best possible start...that's testing my patience


Hey Troi,
I believe the holidays are soon over... more time for scaping ☺
Have you progressed on the hardscape?
Sorry for putting some pressure, I'm not very patient  
Cheers,
Manu


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi, No pressure


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## dean

Honestly Troi 
There's no pressure at all


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## Tim Harrison

Haha...been away, but was looking forward to getting stuck in when I came back...however life has chucked me a few curveballs recently which need resolving first...so the scape will have to go on hold for a little while longer at least...
...I hope it doesn't turn out to be the journal of the scape that never was


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi, Sorry to hear this.Hope you get things sorted out soon mate.

All the best Roy


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy.


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## Manu

Troi said:


> Haha...been away, but was looking forward to getting stuck in when I came back...however life has chucked me a few curveballs recently which need resolving first...so the scape will have to go on hold for a little while longer at least...
> ...I hope it doesn't turn out to be the journal of the scape that never was


Hey Troi,
I hope things are getting for you.
Cheers, Manu. 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## Edvet

Troi said:


> life has chucked me a few curveballs recently


Nice thing is you can hit a curveball out of the park too


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...we're relocating so it'll have to wait till it's all over and we're settled...plus side, may mean more space for a bigger tank


----------



## James O

Bigger tank, more tanks. It's all good 

Sometime life gets in the way of fun....The future is green.  Planted green


----------



## faizal

Hi Troi,.. Hope your relocation went as planned...Looking forward to seeing more updates on this.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi, Best wishes for you in your new home  Hope the move went well.

Speak soon


----------



## alto

yeah very much waiting on an update 

no pressure


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...haaa...finally been able to do what I've been chomping at the bit to do for ages...

It's been a while...and a house move. Long story short I've had the Mother of all Snagging issues to deal with, we even had to move out for a week whilst the developer tried to put stuff right...nightmare

All I've got to do now is modify the cabinet, hang the Radion and start scaping and Wabi-Kusa-ing...can't wait


----------



## zozo

Yummie!!  Can't wait...


----------



## tim

Lovely mate  you can't wait, WE can't wait


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi = Tim  Ho Mate what a set up  Looking forward to this


----------



## Manu

Hi Tim,
It looks great, beautiful set up!
You must be very happy after all the issues with the move.

Will do you do a similar harscape has the ones you've shown before you moved? I really like it but anyway, I'm sure it will be a good 

Looking forward to seeing it set up!
Cheers,
Manu


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----------



## Ryan Thang To

looking good tim. cabinet looks awesome. where did you get that or was it a diy?

cheers
ryans

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----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...
@Manu, I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet exactly, probably not the same as before maybe something with a large lump of manzi with emergent growth.
@Ryan, the cabinet is from IKEA it's from the Besta range. It pretty sturdy, but it's going to need strengthening, hence the modifications I mentioned.


----------



## Ryan Thang To

most of my tanks are ikea cabinet lol. look good but you do have to mod it for support. i cant wait to see what you get up to

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## Tim Harrison

My big lump of manzi...I'm determined to try and do something with this, maybe sitting on Grey Pillar Rock with a few roots emerging here and there. The top will be out of the water perfect for emersed growth.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

That will make a nice immersed stump Tim, not the easiest idea to pull off though.  Sure youll make it a winner mate... think it may take a month or two to soak the beast.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Iain. I think you maybe right about that, on all counts...I'll give it a go anyway, there's always a plan 'B' if I can't get it to gel or sink.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim .Nice piece of DW


----------



## Tim Harrison

LED back lighting in place


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Troi , One word Wicked


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finally got around to strengthening the cabinet to take the additional load of a tank full of water.
I've attached extra cabinet shelves (available separately) to the back to stop it parallelograming...placed in the middle of the back so it's easy to hole saw access for electric cables etc either top or bottom.
And I've cut panels from cheap kitchen doors to add extra support to the cabinet insides to stop them bowing...don't you just love "no nails"


----------



## faizal

Troi...this is amazing mate......you are turning into such a tease....i can't wait to see the progress...


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Great now you can get them up and running  

I love no nails too great stuff.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Not quite just yet...just ordered a hole saw and desk grommets to drill and cloak the side for pipe access (will post a couple of pics of how not to do it). hopefully I can get it sorted in the next couple of days and then...the best bit scaping

P.S. whatever did we do without no nails...and kitchen towel and lots of other stuff we take for granted now?


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Looking forward to the updates 

In the old days, Nails and cotton towels


----------



## Ryan Thang To

nice one tim. using the shelf as extra support. I always done the same thing. work great

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----------



## Tim Harrison

faizal said:


> Troi...this is amazing mate......you are turning into such a tease....i can't wait to see the progress...


Thanks Faizal...I think


Greenfinger2 said:


> In the old days, Nails and cotton towels


Ahh the old days...


legytt said:


> nice one tim. using the shelf as extra support. I always done the same thing. work great


Thanks Ryan...its minimum effort maximum gain, the shelves are a good choice 'cause they're already manufactured to fit exactly. 
The Cheap kitchen cabinet doors inside though are a different storey. I cut them a few mm too big by mistake so about an hours furious sanding ensued before they would fit. The upside is they're a very snug fit and so should offer max support.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finally sawed the holes for the filter pipes and electric cables and fitted the grommets which are sealed with white silcon. Hopefully start scaping tomorrow if I can find time...


[url=https://flic.kr/p/G9agXm]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/G3hJuh][/url][/url]


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Neat job


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy...decided to take my time with this one and do my best to get it right.


----------



## Nelson

Troi said:


> decided to take my time with this one


Forget that.Get on with it .


----------



## alto

A grommet is .....

well, just a grommet

It's time for some exciting rocks & wood (can I say that    ) & all that pre-planting jazzzzzzz 

(needlesstosayIhavenogrommets)


----------



## Tim Harrison

OK...OK...all right already...

(Haha...I like my grommets, it took an age to source the right sized ones and the saw so they'd fit nice and snug)


----------



## Tim Harrison

Radion hung...eventually...3rd time lucky

Scaping...the progress so far - be gentle it's a work in progress, although this time I'm going for the less is more approach...considering stuff like is the glass free of hardscape and easy to get to for maintenance etc...

Oh by the way this scape shall henceforth be known as...Windswept.


----------



## stu_

Considering your reading material,and we're already up to page 8; I think it should be caller Eternity 
Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Stu, I think...how about Windswept Eternity
Actually, I like the sound of that


----------



## Tim Harrison

Finished the hardscape...for now at least


IMG_1162 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


----------



## alto

Awesome caves there - have you thought about fish?
(just wondering if you designed the cave with a certain fish in mind )

So fantastic to see this going along now!


----------



## Sarpijk

Looks promising to say the least!


----------



## Tim Harrison

alto said:


> Awesome caves there - have you thought about fish?
> (just wondering if you designed the cave with a certain fish in mind )
> 
> So fantastic to see this going along now!


Hi alto, thanks...not really, but what sticks in my mind is George's Shallow...which is the tank I'm using for this scape.
When I first saw it, it was kinda like the video below and the fish would hide in a hollow under the tree stump, so we only got to see them on their own terms.

This lump of manzi is very similar in that it has loads of hidey-holes and hopefully it'll make the critters I choose feel at home by providing bolt-holes.
I'm thinking microrasbora or celestial pearl danio for this scape....although I have school of a dozen _T. espei_ in my low-energy which would also be great.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/a-short-video-of-my-60cm-shallow-by-dan-crawford.21683/


----------



## Tim Harrison

Sarpijk said:


> Looks promising to say the least!


Thanks Sarpijk


----------



## Ady34

I really liked the first and last scapes, both very unique......


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Ady...it's been a journey...in more ways than one


----------



## Joe Turner

Cracking hardscape, this is going to be epic! Is that manzanita being swirled by the wind? 

What 's the planting plan?!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi Joe, thanks, and yes it is manzi a large lump and 2 twiggy bits screwed on.

As for planting - not totally decided yet but the possibilities are seemingly endless so I'm inclined to try and let this evolve a lot; a constant changing palette of plants. 

But I'll be putting stems behind the wood, which I'll let grow emersed and hopefully flower. So far I've had some great recommendations here http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/emersed-growth-flowers.40665/#post-441485

The rest of the planting will probably be kept low maybe _HC cuba_, some _Eleocharis_ mini, _Staurogyne repens_, _Hydrocotyle sp_."Japan", sort of thing, perhaps with the occasional small red stem here and there like _Ludwigia_ sp mini Super Red, or maybe a cushion of _H. micranthemoides_.

I'm keen to try some of the very small buces as well and will be tying moss to some of the branches and bits of rubble. I may also try some Utricularia graminifolia.

And, I also have the option of growing a whole heap of bog plants on the wood above the waterline, of which there is plenty


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Exiting times ahead   Bog plants Wow the list is endless. Another project to think about


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi Roy, they are exciting times, so many possibilities I feel like a dog with two tails...it's been way too long


----------



## PARAGUAY

Really like that wood makes for endless planting ideas


----------



## Berlioz

I'm very excited to see what you do, Tim! Gold stars from me, I love it.


----------



## zozo

Realy awsome wood choise Tim.. What about a top view, would love to see. Looks like you created something like a bowl shaped puddle on top centre going emersed..

If you go for UG you realy should place it top of the wood into moss at the waters edge.. There it's be on it most natural spot able to choose by itslef where it wants to go. As long as the water contains enough microbials it's definitely going to grow on submersed. The emersed portion might even flower for you, Ug flowers are like litle orchid flowers. I'm growing it like that, tho didn't flower yet, seems to need a year to mature, maybe i'm in for th etreat this summer. It's funny to see, the UG is a good indicator for the tanks microbial live, at times it explodes submersed like a hanging garden and then retreats again only to emersed if something as a mis or to much. It probably is the batlling algae with glut, this maybe kille more than just algae but also declines microbe population. Have very little submersed UG left, but emersed it's unstopable. 

Here a pic of my hanging garden of Moss, HC and UG they support eachother perfectly submersed as well as emersed, the same portion is also growing above the waterline. I had 10 x more UG submersed here, but for some reason it retreated back.. I guess not enough food anymore.. Yet do not know why and what it's telling me. But it definitely indicates something.. But still enough there as you can see. 

Subm



 

Em


 

Oh scheis, wrong topic, but the top plant is Bog Pimpernell, should flower with small purple flowers one day. I hope..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Daniel and Paraguay that really nice of you to say so.
And Marcel...wow, that's amazing, thanks for the info; I may well have a go at that. Like you mentioned it's definitely more exciting to give the plants free rein to do as they want.
It's the same with gardening, I prefer evolution not revolution, so does Darrel http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/get-your-garden-out.32287/page-2#post-344268

P.S. The top of the wood isn't a massive round hollow the wood is kinda 2 dimensional but there are still a load of nooks and crannies for planting...I'll post a pic later.


----------



## zozo

Can't wait to see what you come up with.. This layout is just awsome.. 

Indeed nice way to say it evolution not revolution..  Regarding UG i gave up the idea to force it to grow where it doesn't occure naturaly.. In nature it does the same, it's an affixed aquatic, starts terrestrial and when conditions are favorable it spread submersed and goes back and forth this way.. I had it reaching down to th esubstrate one day on it's own. I did something to make it stop, but dunno what.. But growing it like this, it might do it again, there is always a healthy fresh supply available. Growing as it pleases.

Ps Ok i kinda looked like that from the angle you shot it.. I thought there might be a little substrate pocket an inch bellow the waterline. An idea i'm still playing with in my head.
And regarding you flower question.. If it was a substrate pocket, it would be perfect for something probably never seen before. I yet not encounter the hardware for this idea. Yours looked like comming very close. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphaea_thermarum But  ( I know a nursery cultivating it, yet not ordered the plant.)


----------



## Tim Harrison

Getting your hands on that would be awesome, especially since it's extinct in the wild. Definitely keep me posted.

It's an amazing conservation story - from the brink of total extinction to the possibility of becoming a common house plant.
Thanks goodness for Fischer and Carlos Magdalena and Bonn and Kew botanical gardens.

Just looked at the wood and there are a couple of small but deep pockets with the potential for retaining substrate...after a little modification


----------



## zozo

I'll sure keep you posted, i'm still in communication with the lily nursery, they advertise the it without it's scientific name.. Not yet recieved an answer.
They say it's the smallest in the world from afrika, so i actualy can only be this one.. Doesn't come cheap tho.. So i want to be sure and like to know what i'm paying for..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just a couple of quick phone camera shots...
All plumbed and wired in ready for action.
And the top of the DW, small pocket to left. The other one is further down the middle back out of shot.
I


----------



## Iain Sutherland

looks ace Tim, loads of possibilities.  Careful with the manzi burls... they are really floaty light and take a good while to sink.  Guess its easy enough to put a rock on top mind.

How about all red plants with green mosses on the wood


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Iain...I've already chosen 3 rocks that'll sit on top until it starts to behave itself. 


Iain Sutherland said:


> How about all red plants with green mosses on the wood


Wow that'd be different and slightly psychedelic...but undeniably cool
Did you have any recommendations?


----------



## zozo

Sorry Tim it's not the Thermarum, so it's also not the smallest of the world.. Didn't yet got an answer from the nursery, but found an other sale offer from same seller advertising same pictures and text, but this time with a name. It's a cultivar name Nymphaea africanus min. alba.. Probably the smallest in the trade, but not smallest in the world. On ebay she tries to sell it as "Smallest of the world" Hoax?? Most likely a self invented cultivar name because i can't find this name nowhere else i keep ending up at this seller only. But still a pretty small one.. For the Thermarum we probably have to wait a few years more before it is sold as houseplant.. Thought it was this one, because it was already brought to Germany in 1987, would have been enough time to cultivate it, but no one probably did yet. Darn.. 

But Thermarum is eledged not the smallest.
http://sfblog.seerosenforum.de/post/2011/06/19/Tropische-Zwergseerosen-(Teil-7).aspx


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's OK, at least we can live in hope thanks to the sterling work of a handful of dedicated botanists and horticulturist. I can wait
And like you say in the meantime there are plenty of great plants out there already just waiting to be gown and appreciated

P.S. thanks for the links.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Pretty much decided on the plant list today. 
Taking another look at the scape there are quite few spots in heavy shade, meaning I have to either buy another light and rail to hang them both on...£££...or be a bit clever with my planting...well try to be at least

_Staurogyne repens_ - front left
_Eleocharis acicularis_ mini - rear near stump/rocks
_Rotala bonsai_ - focal point left of centre midish ground against stump/rock
_Hemianthus callitichoides_ cuba - pretty much everywhere else
_Pogostemon Erectus_ - for flowers behind stump
_Rotala rotundifolia_ - dito
_Heteranthera zosterifolia_ -dito
_Utricualtria graminfolia_ - 'cause I've never tried to grow it before and it looks ace
_Riccardia chamedryfolia_ - a favourate plant, will find space for it no matter what
_Taxiphyllum barbieri_ - looks great emersed, a bit unruly submersed.
_Vesicularia dubyana_ - tied to branches and rocks
_Fissidens fontanus_ - dito, maybe

And what is more, I've actually found somewhere I can get all of them in one go...for the first time ever...one of our sponsors


----------



## Ryan Thang To

that plant list sound like a good one. really looking forward to see how it turns out like. keep it up

cheers
ryan

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## Tim Harrison

Hi ryan, thanks, it's a start. We'll see how it does, and I've got all those lovely emersed growth plants to think about for the top of the DW as well; but that's for another day


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Love the plant list  Its going to look fab planted up


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy...I've just ordered the plants I hope it works out OK with the lighting I already have


----------



## zozo

With the above front tank shot, your hardware resambles a Picasso's Fauno, Centauro, Minotauro creation.  Once seen it's exposition about 20 years ago in M. Reina Sofía - Madrid..  Can't help thinking of it when looking at that pic.. Lets plant it! Olé!...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Suppose it does really...especially if you squint


----------



## tim

Great hardscape mate, and plant list, endless possibilities for this scape to evolve over time, look forward to seeing it planted up


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Tim...me too


----------



## PARAGUAY

One of our plant sponsors is teasing us lately with new  irresistible,new varieties and species some easy grow Reds underwater etc think I  will succumb if this carries on and funds are available for a project .Love your plant list just trying to check on the common names


----------



## Tim Harrison

PARAGUAY said:


> One of our plant sponsors is teasing us lately with new  irresistible,new varieties and species some easy grow Reds underwater etc think I  will succumb if this carries on and funds are available for a project .Love your plant list just trying to check on the common names


Thanks PARAGUAY, I doubt I'll be able to resist the temptation either

Anyway...the plants arrived a few days ago...early actually and caught me out a little, so they had to stay in their packaging for a day...but all planted now. Thanks to Aqua Essentials, nice plants.
I think I over ordered on a few especially the HC Cuba. And I only needed a bit of _Utricualtria graminfolia and Rotala bonsai_but but they only came in the largish 1 2 Grow containers, so I've some left over which I'll grow on emersed, Wabi Kusa style.


----------



## Nelson

Troi said:


> but all planted now.



Er.......Pic ................


----------



## Tim Harrison

I've had a few set up issues...it's a bit cloudy in there at the moment...

The new glassware is smaller, but it has a wider bore than I'm used to (go figure) so it's taken me a while to position the out flow to reduce the force of the flow, which has rescaped the substrate

That and, argh...my HC Cuba has no roots, is covered in O2 bubbles and is therefore unanchored and floaty light and keeps being blown to the surface...made the rookie mistake of planting it in too bigger portions...yet again

I'll try ANother 100% water change and add a pic soon


----------



## Nelson

Must say I expected more from you .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yeah me too...haha...said I was going to take the time to get this one right...I lied...instead I kinda rushed the planting a bit trying to squeeze it in between stuff, and I was very concious of needing to get the plants in before they started to deteriorate.

It's not the most auspicious of starts but I think I may have got it all under control...for now.

The other thing is I'm using a new light and I'm very concious that I haven't got a clue how it works or whether I'm using the right intensity, so it'll be trial and error for a while. Just hope the plants will survive the experiment

I'm also still fiddling with my CO2...the temptation is to max it out (no critters), but it's not always a good idea since the plants may have a hard time adapting to the lower concentration once I add critters.


----------



## alto

Troi said:


> That and, argh...my HC Cuba has no roots, is covered in O2 bubbles and is therefore unanchored and floaty light and keeps being blown to the surface...made the rookie mistake of planting it in too bigger portions...


Just use the crossed toothpicks (or similar) to anchor it down - easy to remove later




Troi said:


> I'm also still fiddling with my CO2...the temptation is to max it out (no critters), but it's not always a good idea since the plants may have a hard time adapting to the lower concentration once I add critters.


You can also try running elevated CO2 (at "normal" levels) during photoperiod & low levels outside the photoperiod, eg 2-4bps (or whatever) & 0.5-1 bps ... this can be useful if tank receives decent amounts of ambient light, also allows you to add in algae crew
I've gotten various "horned" nerite snails recently & am impressed with their diligence ... also quite funny to see a snail moving up & down a single grass stem


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the tips alto...no HC floating this morning so I think I've nailed it


----------



## Tim Harrison

This is it so far...


----------



## Nelson

Brilliant .
Are you concerned about some of the plants being shaded ?.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Neil. Shade...I am a bit worried...I've tried to be clever about the planting to compensate...time will tell though


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just a few quick phone camera shots.
The overview - the spare plants growing emersed in a seperate glass container (can't really call it a Wabi Kusa).
The Rotala  and Pogo have breached the surface already.
And a pic of the _Rotala bonsai.


_


----------



## Sarpijk

May I suggest some soleirolia soleirolii for the emersed part? I recently got some and I love the look of it.


----------



## Tim Harrison

You may Sarpijk...It looks like a lovely plant


----------



## tim

Really nicely scaped and planted Tim, keep the updates coming mate.


----------



## Manu

Looking really good already  Well done Tim! 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo

Great setup Tim..  Can't wait to see this explode into a bed of emersed flowers. 

It could use an Ivy tho..  growing and climbing over thet long vertical piece of driftwood. Something like Hydrocotyl (tripartita) is a typical ivy when emersed growen and can grow little white flowers.. I'm growing bog pimpernell now also for this purpose, but this is a creeper instead of an ivy, so it needs extra guidance but realy explodes emersed in very long strains.. Still can't get around the fact that men managed to get this fast growing bugger on the red list in many countries. Tho Pimpernell hates hard water, what i did send to the UK didn't survive as far as i know. Trying hydrocotyle like that in the low tech, but it's still very small.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





Sarpijk said:


> soleirolia soleirolii


It is *very good* grower.





zozo said:


> Still can't get around the fact that men managed to get this fast growing bugger on the red list in many countries. Tho Pimpernell hates hard water, what i did send to the UK didn't survive as far as i know.


It will actually grow in hard water, although it often grows wild on peat bogs. 

In the Burren (W. Ireland) I've seen it on wetter bits of the limestone pavement, and in SW Britain it grows in <"dune slacks on shell sand dunes">.

There is some in my daughters art project (at the front right), rocks are Jurassic age oolitic limestone (<"Bath Stone">).



 

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,It is *very good* grower.It will actually grow in hard water, although it often grows wild on peat bogs.
> 
> In the Burren (W. Ireland) I've seen it on wetter bits of the limestone pavement, and in SW Britain it grows in <"dune slacks on shell sand dunes">.
> 
> There is some in my daughters art project (at the front right), rocks are Jurassic age oolitic limestone (<"Bath Stone">).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers Darrel



Ok it might not like the transition from propagating in soft and then go hard afterwards..  Can't imagine another explaination why else it would'n survive. Because in my soft water it's grows realy the best of all plants i grow.. And did send i think 2 samples to greenfinger Roy and both didn't make it.. Realy thought it must be the hard water.. I actualy never saw this plant i the wild, it very rare to find. And your indeed correct, looked in our Floron Atlas it also stated to grow on wetlands with hard groundwater supply. 

I kinda fell in love with this little beauty and it seems to love me back for it, it grows like crazy, also on soft water. Funny actualy is, your daughter might like to know, or maybe knows already.. It's common Germanic name.. *Teer Guychelheyl *which means *Little/Fragile Madness Healer*. It was in historical times alledgedly used to heal madness, but sceintific reseach couldn't find any psycho active substances. Unfortunately it doesn't heal madness, mankind is still mad enough to distroy all it's habitats. 

Nice art project btw,  does it come with closeups somewhere? (Url?)

Sorry for the off topic..


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,





zozo said:


> I kinda fell in love with this little beauty and it seems to love me back for it, it grows like crazy, also on soft water.


Marcel have you tried it outside? It should flower (it has never flowered inside for me). 

<"I used to have a deeper pink cultivar called"> _Anagallis tenella_ "Studland", and it was a stunner, but I failed to keep it wet enough one summer and it "_shuffled off this mortal coil_".




 

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo

dw1305 said:


> Marcel have you tried it outside?


Not yet  i bought it last year end of the summer as a outlet bargain.. But this year definitely will, got enough of it.
Actualy i have no idea if i have any cultivar or the original wild one, forgot to look at the lable.. As far as i remember it only said it's sceintific name. That studland realy is a stunner..  If it'l flower for me inside we will see, late spring early summer should be the time, which is around the corner.  When i see that pic i'm going to dance around on my eyebrows if it flowers above my tank like that..  But it probably wont i guess.. But i should put it outside soon if it flowers so early. I'll start cutting..


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Hygrophila pinnatifida looks really cool emersed has a great shape and colour to the leaves


----------



## Tim Harrison

tim said:


> Really nicely scaped and planted Tim, keep the updates coming mate.


Thanks Tim, that's really nice of you to say so


Manu said:


> Looking really good already  Well done Tim! Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


And Manu that's also very kind too


zozo said:


> Great setup Tim..  Can't wait to see this explode into a bed of emersed flowers.
> It could use an Ivy tho..  growing and climbing over thet long vertical piece of driftwood. Something like Hydrocotyl (tripartita) is a typical ivy when emersed growen and can grow little white flowers.. I'm growing bog pimpernell now also for this purpose, but this is a creeper instead of an ivy, so it needs extra guidance but realy explodes emersed in very long strains.. Still can't get around the fact that men managed to get this fast growing bugger on the red list in many countries. Tho Pimpernell hates hard water, what i did send to the UK didn't survive as far as i know. Trying hydrocotyle like that in the low tech, but it's still very small.


Thanks Marcel, that's a great idea, I'll wait to see if the lawn establishes first, I don't want to cast any more shade than I have to at the moment


dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Marcel have you tried it outside? It should flower (it has never flowered inside for me).
> 
> <"I used to have a deeper pink cultivar called"> _Anagallis tenella_ "Studland", and it was a stunner, but I failed to keep it wet enough one summer and it "_shuffled off this mortal coil_".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers Darrel


Thanks for sharing the info and pic Darrel...if I ever needed convincing...


Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Tim, Hygrophila pinnatifida looks really cool emersed has a great shape and colour to the leaves


Thanks Roy, It's definitely on my list of great plants to try


----------



## Tim Harrison

By way of an update the scape has proven a bit of a disaster.
The flow is way too high and in the wrong direction (by design, directed to the substrate instead of across the surface), and the outflow lily's sucker came loose yesterday and as a result the change of flow totally rescaped the substrate again either uprooting or burying most of the plants
It's not the outflow I would have chosen but the gush lily pipe that was top of my list, and which gives surface flow, has been out of stock now for a while.
I've decided to rescape it either tomorrow or Tuesday, and lower the stump in to the substrate as much as possible and probably get rid of the rocks etc at the front.
And I'll pack the filter with media to reduce the flow.
I'll see how it goes...but the intention is to let the plants be the star, not the hardscape...that is if they survive


----------



## Nelson

Bummer .
I'm sure you'll make it amazing again .


----------



## Berlioz

Really sorry to hear that, what a pain.


----------



## zozo

That's a pitty Tim..  all looked awsome.... I already did do my share of brainsorming on higher flow in a shallow scape.. It indeed is a challange to take into account while still in dry scape stage.. In my last build i'm using a duckbill outlet, and i must say if i ever build something simmular shallow i definitely will go for a duckbill.. They create a verry natural shaped surface flow and can be directed.. I even found a set in acrilyc to combine with a acrylic pipe to make it aestheticly more pleasing.

Just sharing a thought..  on shallow flow.. The acrylic ones are hard to find in right sizes.. Anyway duckbill outlet is definitely worth to take in consideration.. What i like the most is the easy of playing with flow direction..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...I've also got taps on the filter that allow me to restrict flow, but the problem then is the filter becomes very noisy (it reverberates in the cabinet anyway), so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I'll simplify the scape and lower the stump, hopefully then I'll be able to direct the flow through or over it a little more.

It will also mean I'll get more light to the plants...the alternative is £300 for another light and hanging rail etc; I'd like to avoid that expense if I can

And thanks also Marcel...Now you tell me
It'll be something I'll definitely keep in mind, and if it still doesn't work I'll be on the look out for. I could also do with a surface skimmer inlet, but the glass/acrylic ones are all too big.

I've also considered abandoning the shallow for now and getting one of these...https://www.seapets.co.uk/aqua-one-aquaopti-85-glass-aquarium-47242

We'll see


----------



## EdwinK

Hi Troi,

Have you considered adding filter booster to reduce flow? 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-pond-...f884fe4&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=131778888114


----------



## Nelson

I've had the same problem with my lily pipe before.I now use extra suckers on it.
http://charterhouse-aquatics.com/sh...76-78-parts/eheim-hose-clips-and-suckers-16mm .



Troi said:


> I've also considered abandoning the shallow for now and getting one of these...https://www.seapets.co.uk/aqua-one-aquaopti-85-glass-aquarium-47242


After seeing Roy's,probably going to get one myself,eventually ,but with a TMC stand.


----------



## tim

Real shame mate, would a glass spray bar be an option to disperse the flow less fiercely ?


----------



## zozo

EdwinK said:


> Hi Troi,
> 
> Have you considered adding filter booster to reduce flow?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-pond-solutions-ef2-fillter-booster-aquarium-fish-tank/131797508492?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=36381&meid=445882c55ea8493f8b37825d1f884fe4&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=131778888114



I'm using such a prefilter with an dc 12 volt pump and a pwm motor controller to reuce the pump capacity.. Have to same 12 volt pump in my sump also with a pwm controler.. Of you have a AC220 volt pump try one of these voltage regulators to reduce pump speed..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391187676366?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I'm not experienced with this type of AC controler yet, but they work with Variac principle so the pump most stay sillent when dimmed down with this.. Using regular dimmers which use reverse phase control make AC motors go with a noisy hum.. But variacs regulate voltage and then motor stays silent. I've used Variac to reduce AC pump speed and it works OK. But it wasn't the abovee variac.


----------



## PARAGUAY

Just as Chris Jackson said with Parva Beach(Chris Journel)I thought you might have a hiccup with "Windswept"as a name but sure it will work out Troi


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Sorry to hear that mate


----------



## Halley

I find using an inline atomiser and/or heater really reduces flow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Wow thanks guys for all the suggestions...


EdwinK said:


> Hi Troi, Have you considered adding filter booster to reduce flow?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/All-pond-solutions-ef2-fillter-booster-aquarium-fish-tank/131797508492?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=36381&meid=445882c55ea8493f8b37825d1f884fe4&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=131778888114


I have Edwin, it was top of my list, it'd also double as a CO2 reactor.
However, the Eheim I'm using has 12/16mm tubing, the booster has 16/22mm.
I might still get one and use reducers - I've had to add the atomizer to the outflow; my filter didn't cope very well with it on the inlet. But it largely depends on how bad the fizzy lemonade effect is



Nelson said:


> I've had the same problem with my lily pipe before.I now use extra suckers on it.
> http://charterhouse-aquatics.com/sh...76-78-parts/eheim-hose-clips-and-suckers-16mm .
> After seeing Roy's,probably going to get one myself,eventually ,but with a TMC stand.


I think I may have the lily pipe sorted now. I've cut the tubing shorter so the weight of the in-line heater should keep it up right and in place.
I'll take yours, Roys, and Ryans word on the tank...they seem amazing value for money and, bonus, it'll fit my IKEA hacked stand perfectly



tim said:


> Real shame mate, would a glass spray bar be an option to disperse the flow less fiercely ?


Thanks Tim, packing the filter with media seems to have worked and the filter is so much quieter as well.
I've also managed to direct the flow through a hole in the stump and although the flow is not so fierce its pattern actually seems to be better.



zozo said:


> I'm using such a prefilter with an dc 12 volt pump and a pwm motor controller to reuce the pump capacity.. Have to same 12 volt pump in my sump also with a pwm controler.. Of you have a AC220 volt pump try one of these voltage regulators to reduce pump speed..
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391187676366?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> I'm not experienced with this type of AC controler yet, but they work with Variac principle so the pump most stay sillent when dimmed down with this.. Using regular dimmers which use reverse phase control make AC motors go with a noisy hum.. But variacs regulate voltage and then motor stays silent. I've used Variac to reduce AC pump speed and it works OK. But it wasn't the abovee variac.


Another great idea...I'm sure it's relatively simple to do for a man of your incredible talents, but I'd probably blow myself up and set fire to the house



Halley said:


> I find using an inline atomiser and/or heater really reduces flow Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They do make a difference, and I already have both plumbed in thanks

And thanks also PARAGUAY and Roy, I'm now more hopeful
The scape has been simplified, and I may have lost some tension and drama...but I just want a quiet life now

And on that note...I'm never doing that again...I can't recommend enough that no one else tries it either that is unless you enjoy playing with mud pies and turning your house in to the Somme
The clean version...the dirty version is far too graphic for a family type forum

I'll post another shot of it filled when visibility improves...


----------



## zozo

Still looking awsome, actualy, i would need to hold both pics together to see the difference.. Lets hope this will work out.. 

Btw thanks for the compliment, but it aint so difficult and is easier then it looks..  Anyway if you're not confident and can't manage another to fix it for you. Keep an eye open for a garage sail for these.. They come with powerplugs, one for the mains and one ore more for the connected devices..
http://www.elektrodump.nl/nl/variac...afo-regeltransformator-autotransformator.html
I have one of these, used it for regulating the fan motor for car exhaust extraction from the garage.. I also used it to regulate pump speed of an aquarium filter. These keep the motor silent. A bit clusmy and big model, but if you're not into diy the only option.  Anyway if you ever see one in a bargain sale or second hand then you know what it does.  Spending €65 on a new one for regulating the filter might be a bit to much..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Whilst I'm waiting for the water to clear, I had a go at a mini Wabi-Kusa in a whiskey tumbler...tumbler being the operative word...remember the weebles? - That's what this tumbler's designed to do, but not too well, I once lost a valuable mouthful of single malt, never again

Now it contains _Rotala bonsai _instead...a much safer bet_

_


----------



## Nelson

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...you remember them too...

An old one, but the oldies are always the best...apologies in advance anyway

A herd of cows and two bulls are eating grass out in the pasture.
Suddenly, a great gust of wind comes ripping across the prairie and knocks all the cows to the ground. But, the bulls just sway in the wind and continue eating.
When the wind quiets down, the cows stand up, brush off the dirt, and start eating again.
A bit later, one cow looks up just in time to see a tornado tearing through the pasture fence. The tornado knocks the cows every which way, but the bulls just rock back and forth as they are buffeted.
When the cows get back on their feet and pick the straw out of their hide, they all walk over to the bulls.
One cow says, "Why do we cows get knocked over by wind but you bulls keep standing?"
The two bulls laugh and reply, "We bulls wobble, but we don't fall down."


----------



## tim

^^


----------



## zozo

I guess as foreinger you need to know what wobling weebles are before picking up on the clue of the joke?  Seeing the commercial i think i know now where adhd children come from.. jees thes weebles are nervious..


----------



## Tim Harrison

I'd forgotten what a truly naff toy concept is was...just like most things in the early 70s


----------



## zozo

Well i guess back then designers didn't take the joke part in human nature very seriuously.. This toy realy invites a bully joke.. I know a few weebles myself to now you mention..  Kinda like the sound of it.. "You Weeble!"


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Nice little Wabi-Kusa 

Weebles , Great air gun practice


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy


Greenfinger2 said:


> Weebles , Great air gun practice


Definitely...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Well I've lost a bit of tension with lowering the stump and burying the rocks but I've tried to get it back by banking the substrate and adding scree to the central focal point which is mysteriously shrouded in shadow...


I've attached 3 species of moss and a liverwort to the branches in places where they can grow emersed and submersed...I'm hoping the stump will eventually get covered.

P.S. repositioning the stump has allowed me to lower the light by 10cm, to the manufacturers optimum of around 20cm without putting some of the plants in shade, and the HC cuba is pearling


----------



## AnhBui

Troi said:


> Well I've lost a bit of tension with lowering the stump and burying the rocks but I've tried to get it back by banking the substrate and adding scree to the central focal point which is mysteriously shrouded in shadow...



If I were you I would use bigger rocks in that area to create a more natural appearance  The rest looks great.


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## Berlioz

I like it more like this, Tim. 

I can picture what you're trying to do. In a couple of months I see it looking more like the moss covered rocks and wood I see in the shallows nearby.


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## Tim Harrison

AnhBui said:


> If I were you I would use bigger rocks in that area to create a more natural appearance  The rest looks great.


Thanks AnhBui...and I spent hours breaking those rocks up...You think maybe I went too far

Seriously tho' if you mean the scree I tried using bigger pieces and it just didn't look right, although there are some bigger pieces but you can't see them 'cause they're in shadow.
The original rocks underpinning the stump are still there buried in the substrate with just the tips poking out like icebergs. They form a semi circle holding back the banked Amazonia and forming the back wall to the scree, just like a corrie or cirque...

I think my aim was to make the scree rocks relatively small to maintain a sense of scale. For me trying to make what is a very small tank look big is the main challenge...the aspect ratio helps a great deal as well



Berlioz said:


> I like it more like this, Tim.
> I can picture what you're trying to do. In a couple of months I see it looking more like the moss covered rocks and wood I see in the shallows nearby.


And thanks Berlioz, you're spot on with your with your assessment, it's all part of my let it evolve philosophy on this one...


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## zozo

Looks realy great, just waitin now to let it grow in. I guess the main focal points will be everything popping the surface and flowering. But i know what you mean, whit the little details you describe with the rocks.. In front of the tank it looks just the way it should and perfect, but impossible to get it on picture as the eye sees it... Next to the photic sneeze reflex and the constant glass cleaning this is also an issue i constantly run into. How do i take a picture of what i realy see? For contest scapes this is realy something to think about while building, the ones knowing how to manage this are the average winners i guess.


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, The Shallow Looks fantastic  Love the little W-K too


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## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Looks realy great, just waitin now to let it grow in. I guess the main focal points will be everything popping the surface and flowering. But i know what you mean, whit the little details you describe with the rocks.. In front of the tank it looks just the way it should and perfect, but impossible to get it on picture as the eye sees it... Next to the photic sneeze reflex and the constant glass cleaning this is also an issue i constantly run into. How do i take a picture of what i realy see? For contest scapes this is realy something to think about while building, the ones knowing how to manage this are the average winners i guess.


Thanks Marcel, you're so right about that...although I have to say for me this scape is by far the most _instantly_ photogenic I've done so far.
I say instantly...I didn't really like the images of my other scapes I could never capture what I was after at the time and I could never do them justice, but looking at them in retrospect they seem OK now.
But then again, I only use a phone camera and don't edit the pics, bar a bit a cropping occasionally.


Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Tim, The Shallow Looks fantastic  Love the little W-K too


Thanks Roy, I've since taken some substrate out of the little W-K it wasn't in proportion to the size of the glass...fussy I know, but the Devil is in the detail
The hardest thing is then keeping the inside of the glass clean without uprooting the plants I don't know how you manage it, you must have the patience of a saint


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## zozo

Troi said:


> The hardest thing is then keeping the inside of the glass clean without uprooting the plants I don't know how you manage it, you must have the patience of a saint



Yes the glass staines over time when spraying ferts or tap water, one way which could help a lot and preventing mineral deposit on the glass is spray demineralized water day after spraying ferts. If the glass gets to full with water after spraying take a syringe with a needle and suck the excess of water out again. ALso could use a syringe to add fertilized water to the substrate without touching the glass. 

I've also noticed that stains disappear as long as a film of water is on the glass, so spraying demiwater and taking pictures while glass is still wet gives about the clearest results. Anyway thats how i keep my 33cl Wabeer Kusa glass relatively clean for over 6 months now without wiping with cotton sticks which doesn't realy help much. If you have some uggly staining a coton stick dipped in vinigar could help a bit but it's more smearing around then cleaning. Demiwater is the secret anyway.


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel...I think I've got some in the garage, and on that note I'm going to install a water butt in the garage this weekend and use rainwater for the scape.
The water round here is very hard, so I'm hoping rainwater will reduce limescale etc in the tank as well.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Always wanted to have a go at Bucephalandra...especially as I'm trying to miniaturise everything to maintain a sense of scale; they are a great substitute for the usual Anubias.

I found these two mini varieties or species, not sure which, online and went ahead and bought them.

After accepting that for an extortionate amount of money I could only expect a rhizome and few tatty leaves, I was, for once, pleasantly surprised by the size and quality of the plants.

And they've fitted in nicely just as I imagined. Also, a small piece broke loose so I positioned it where it can easily grow emersed too...excited to see how they do


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## EdwinK

Troi said:


> are a great substitute for the usual Anubias



Usual anubias has a great substitutes within it self like Anubias sp. chilli or Anubias sp. pangolino


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## Tim Harrison

Yeah you're right, I considered these as well, but Anubias spp. varieties ain't as small, and have a habit of reverting to ancestral type if not kept in the right environmental conditions...


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## Lindy

Troi said:


> After accepting that for an extortionate amount of money I could only expect a rhizome and few tatty leaves, I was, for once, pleasantly surprised by the size and quality of the plants.


These look great, where did you get them from? These are the next plants I want to add to my tank... I like your revised version. Sometimes when things go t#ts up it works out great.


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## Tim Harrison

Hi Lindy, I did a search in eBay, and there were a fair few that I'd wanted to try and others I hadn't heard of too, but here are the vendors I used...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191855330510?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252267584369?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## Lindy

Thanks for that. I have seen these sellers amongst others and nice to know what standard their plants are.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Lindy

Did you make offers or just pay the full price? 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Made and offer of £10.00 for the Bucephalandra "Lamandau Mini Purple" and it was accepted straight away...maybe there's even more leeway


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## Lindy

I took at least £2 off each one. I ended up buying five


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## Tim Harrison

Excellent...but funny how that always seems to happen


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## Tim Harrison

I'm not seeking sympathy, but merely writing this as an entry in to the journal as a reminder of my own oafishness...

Today the bucket I was using to refill the tank after yet another 50-60% water change slipped and dumped a huge amount of water in to the tank in one go.
I was left with a moon sized crater in the Amazonia and a very cloudy tank swimming with mud and plants...
It took me two and a half hours to drain the tank remove the plants again, sculpt the substrate, replant and refill...carefully this time...and then clean up. The HC is now beginning to look the worse for wear and if it survives it'll be a miracle.

On the plus side the disaster afforded me the opportunity to reposition the mini hairgrass, and sort the Rotala bonsai out, it'd rotted from the roots up but the new leaves at the top were healthy. I uprooted them and replanted the healthy shoots.


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## Nelson

This tank is a jinx.You'd be better off giving it to me.Just to save you from more problems of course.


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## Tim Harrison

If you'd made the offer just after it happened I'd probably have taken it, but it's all fine now...maybe next time


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## AnhBui

Troi said:


> I'm not seeking sympathy, but merely writing this as an entry in to the journal as a reminder of my own oafishness...
> 
> Today the bucket I was using to refill the tank after yet another 50-60% water change slipped and dumped a huge amount of water in to the tank in one go.
> I was left with a moon sized crater in the Amazonia and a very cloudy tank swimming with mud and plants...
> It took me two and a half hours to drain the tank remove the plants again, sculpt the substrate, replant and refill...carefully this time...and then clean up. The HC is now beginning to look the worse for wear and if it survives it'll be a miracle.
> 
> On the plus side the disaster afforded me the opportunity to reposition the mini hairgrass, and sort the Rotala bonsai out, it'd rotted from the roots up but the new leaves at the top were healthy. I uprooted them and replanted the healthy shoots.



Ouch!


----------



## GHNelson

Troi said:


> Today the bucket I was using to refill the tank after yet another 50-60% water change slipped and dumped a huge amount of water in to the tank in one go.


Make one of these up bud!
Just lay a piece of unstained plank of wood over the length or width of the tank then place on top open the tap!
You can always add a piece of hose to the tap for less disturbance of the substrate.









hoggie


----------



## alto

Troi said:


> t took me two and a half hours to drain the tank remove the plants again, sculpt the substrate, replant and refill


that's awesome time management in my book - I can wile away 2 hours just thinking about the task   

I really appreciate that you post all the (gory) details - it makes the journal so much fun ... errrrr .... I mean _interesting 

_


Troi said:


> it'd rotted from the roots up but the new leaves at the top were healthy.


It's odd that way, sometimes seems to happen to every stem, other times hardly at all - & once established, it's very enduring (I like to challenge my plants commitment to life  )


I use the Python to refill the tank - have made several unplanned substrate re-sculpts


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## BexHaystack

I admire your perseverance, I'm sure it will be rewarded. As a testament of my own oafishness - I paid full price for 5 of those Buces off Ebay, didn't even consider making an offer


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## Lindy

I use a pump to refill my tanks. No dribbles, slips or knackered back!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

AnhBui said:


> Ouch!


I can't write what I actually said...but Ouch kinda sums it up



hogan53 said:


> Make one of these up bud!
> Just lay a piece of unstained plank of wood over the length or width of the tank then place on top open the tap!
> You can always add a piece of hose to the tap for less disturbance of the substrate.
> 
> View attachment 85424
> 
> View attachment 85423
> hoggie


Awesome idea hoggie, definitley worth following up on
Knowing my luck though it'll get nudged off and break my tank and turn my study in to a quagmire



alto said:


> that's awesome time management in my book - I can wile away 2 hours just thinking about the task
> 
> I really appreciate that you post all the (gory) details - it makes the journal so much fun ... errrrr .... I mean _interesting
> 
> _
> 
> It's odd that way, sometimes seems to happen to every stem, other times hardly at all - & once established, it's very enduring (I like to challenge my plants commitment to life  )
> 
> 
> 
> I use the Python to refill the tank - have made several unplanned substrate re-sculpts


Haha, thanks alto...that's the idea warts an' all...I'm glad to be of service



BexHaystack said:


> I admire your perseverance, I'm sure it will be rewarded. As a testament of my own oafishness - I paid full price for 5 of those Buces off Ebay, didn't even consider making an offer


Thanks, and...if you're like me haggling doesn't come naturally, it takes practice and perseverance to get over the good old English reserve



ldcgroomer said:


> I use a pump to refill my tanks. No dribbles, slips or knackered back!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


You're gona need a big pump for that new tank of yours...that's for sure


----------



## Lindy

I thought of you today as I was mopping up the mess I created while removing the eheim from under the big tank. Was disconnecting all the double taps and forgot to close the last one. A couple of litres emptied before I got it closed doh! 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

ldcgroomer said:


> I thought of you today as I was mopping up the mess I created while removing the eheim from under the big tank. Was disconnecting all the double taps and forgot to close the last one. A couple of litres emptied before I got it closed doh!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Thanks Lindy, nice to know I've become a byword for disaster


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim ,  Not again mate  Glad all going well now.


I was so so lucky the other day. One of my W-K fell off the shelf above my new 60cm tank it fell off hit the light and ended up all over the floor.Lucky it hit the light or it would of smashed the tank  Won't be doing that again


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy...
That must have been a heart stopping moment. 
If you're like me you've probably had more than your fair share of near misses, it's not till Pete Tong pays you multiple visits that you begin to reflect on the fact.


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## zozo

I'm getting more and more font of the use and convenience of a sump filter.. Since the tank is drained with overflow syphons the water level in the tank never fluctuates, it's te level in the sump bellow the tank which changes.. So when water evaporates, the water level in the sump lowers but not in the tank. Have a marker on the sump to monitor the water level. Even use the sump for refilling after a water change, it has a adjustable pump, so i fill the sump and adjust the pump to filling speed of the sump. the water is pumped to te tank. In my case i hang a hose in the sump connected to the tap. So i can adjust filling speed and draining speed to be equal. But if i would use a bucket, the sump is bellow the tank, so a bucket on a stool will always be higher than the sump and could syphon it in.

I never used a sump before this is my first one. And im realy thinking why i never did.. They are so easy and cheap to make and so much more easier to maintain and filter so much more sufficient..

I can only say to everybody having a a cabinet bellow their tank, you realy should consider the use of a sump.. Size aint realy an issue, they can be made in all kinds of dimensions.. I used a little tank 1/4 of the main 110liter tank capacity.. So its a 25 liter tank/filter only holding about 12 liters of water. And it's actualy oversized.. But again another convenience, i did put a light above it and grow plants in the extra space.

Anyway i can go on and on about sump bennefits and conveniences.. Just saying i could sump up a few more..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel, I've often thought about using a sump...maybe it's time to look in to it properly.


----------



## zozo

Tim i can only say..  Since it works partialy with laws of nature it probably wont function straight ot of the box.. Once you know how to tweak them into functioning properly you wont regret having one. Reading your water ballet post, i thought another reason of having one and i'm realy happy i have, no more lifting buckets higher than the sump.  The benefits keep adding up.


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## Lindy

I am slightly regretting getting rid of the sump on the big tank...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Nothing's ever simple, and this scape has taught me that over and over again

After boasting that my stauro was growing like the clappers, it just up and melted on me...along with the _R_._ bonsai _and one of my buces...

...And then I came back from a long weekend away to a tank overridden with various kinds of algae...
I've a sneaking suspicion that it was introduced via the mosses taken from my low-energy...again after confidently thinking the algae would soon die in my high-energy tank.

Just when you think you've got this planted tank malarkey figured...it throws you another curve ball

I've spent most of the day manually removing as much algae as I can, and on a minor rescape; adding more little rocks to the shady parts where the plants had been struggling.

I've also lowered light intensity, cleaned the filter, and given the tank a 100% water change...I guess I'll also be over dosing LC for a couple of weeks too.

Next I need to stabilise my CO2 at a level that's OK for critters...it's never been great...and get a clean up crew in there.

Warts 'n' all pics.
The rot setting in...

Algae outbreak...


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## EdwinK

It doesn't look so serious in the pictures. I bet it will improve very soon.


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## Nelson

You'll sort it .


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## zozo

Still a bummer when a tank is teething..


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys...yeah just a little bummed out...actually never had algae issues like this before. 
But I think I can deal with it, with a little perseverance and know-how

It's always a very difficult balancing act until the plant biomass reaches critical mass and then something magical seems to happen and it just takes off and the system becomes super robust.


----------



## Glen Jowdie

I really like the rock layout and the tank dimentions are great. Looking forward to seeing this planted


----------



## Richard H

I'm still learning but this has been a great (honest) journal to read. Every mistake is a learning curve I guess and I've made very similar ones to yourself. Keep up the hard work I canreally see this evolving into an incredible looking scape.


----------



## Lindy

I hope this isn't what I come back to after my hols! Away for 10 days which may get extended due to French air traffic control going on yet another strike. Really missing the tanks.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


----------



## rebel

Looks to be filamentous diatoms. Tooth brush time!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Filamentous diatoms... and the rest

The tank tooth brush has been working overtime despite lowering the light intensity even more.

I'd tear it down and start again but I'm too lazy so I'll just go with it and see what happens...
TBH, I haven't really given this scape the attention it demands.
I've also had massive melt, and the stump has been disintegrating, both increasing organic load...

In addition I don't think 1 Radion is enough to give the light coverage needed to promote healthy and even plant growth - I tried to compensate by increasing intensity and that just exacerbated the algae problems.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and either buy another Radion, plus hanging rail etc, or buy another light entirely. Suggestions welcome...

However, today I finally got round to getting my CO2 under control and buying a cleanup crew from the local Maidenhead Aquatics (amanos and otos).

Hopefully, things will start to improve soon


----------



## CooKieS

[jerk mod ON] "Twinstar: the most innovative technology to inhibit green algae"



[jerk mod OFF] 
I really like your scape! Amano shrimp will provide great help against your algae.


----------



## alto

Commiserations on this project ... seems it's been determined to test you 
(obviously the rescape will be a dream  )



Troi said:


> In addition I don't think 1 Radion is enough to give the light coverage needed to promote healthy and even plant growth


these cover a 45cm x 45cm area quite nicely (decent PAR over that area, though you will always have a curve distribution of PAR if looking at a cross section, obviously most intense directly under the light source, then decreasing as move away from the source, manufacturers have lessened this effect by moving to standard ~120* lens rather than the initial ~90* lens)
Kessil A160 also does a nice 45 x 45 cm area (I have 2 on my 90cm tank) ... I've seen some recommendations for these on 60cm tanks, even 60cm cube tanks but you'd want to be planning a rather low light scape 
Kessil A360 does that 60 cm coverage with decent PAR (Ecotech doesn't offer a FW version on their Pro or 30W series)



Troi said:


> buy another Radion, plus hanging rail etc


This drives me  - light costs are $$$$, then you get stuck paying more $ - $$ just to mount the light ... at least Kessil you can just suspend without paying out more (though tank mount arms are obviously $$ - you can see them in George's new eaReef journal)




Troi said:


> the stump has been disintegrating,


 have you had it awhile?
- invest in a Python type water change system, you can do daily water changes in 10min 


Despite everything tank still looks amazing (& that giant Amano should have everything tidied up in a few )


----------



## alto

Ecotech - worth asking them about possibility of switching out the light puck in your XR15FW to the XR15 Pro (advertised as full spectrum so may still get enough of a boost though not "designed" for FW)
The ability to switch out lens & pucks seems a good factor in considering Ecotech lighting though I don't know how well this actually translates to real life happenings
(note the lens pack used to be included, then nominal charge, but now runs rather more; haven't seem the pricing on puck upgrades)


----------



## zozo

Hang in there Tim, it is a beatifull setup, would be a pitty to give up and break it down.. I'm somewhat in the same boat with my low tech.. Running since november, first 12 weeks diatoms, and since the summer started BBA, same story 5 kilos of wood raging organics through the tank. And not the organcs i need at the time, plants holding back and if i put ferts in the BBA blooms all over. But i'll be darned i'll wait it out even if it takes a year, i need and want to get this beast under control. Also an open top and stands under a roof window, have no tank lights at all at the moment, a natural lit low tech, if i dare to switch a light on i hear the BBA blowing a horn. 

Hang in there, you can do it..


----------



## Chris Jackson

Yo, a real rip roarer this one, how did I miss it! 

Hang in there mister....the lowest ebb is the turning of the tide..


----------



## Tim Harrison

CooKieS said:


> [jerk mod ON] "Twinstar: the most innovative technology to inhibit green algae"
> 
> 
> 
> [jerk mod OFF]
> I really like your scape! Amano shrimp will provide great help against your algae.


Haha...thanks for that - I just like the fine mist it produces



alto said:


> Commiserations on this project ... seems it's been determined to test you
> (obviously the rescape will be a dream  )
> 
> 
> these cover a 45cm x 45cm area quite nicely (decent PAR over that area, though you will always have a curve distribution of PAR if looking at a cross section, obviously most intense directly under the light source, then decreasing as move away from the source, manufacturers have lessened this effect by moving to standard ~120* lens rather than the initial ~90* lens)
> Kessil A160 also does a nice 45 x 45 cm area (I have 2 on my 90cm tank) ... I've seen some recommendations for these on 60cm tanks, even 60cm cube tanks but you'd want to be planning a rather low light scape
> Kessil A360 does that 60 cm coverage with decent PAR (Ecotech doesn't offer a FW version on their Pro or 30W series)
> 
> 
> This drives me  - light costs are $$$$, then you get stuck paying more $ - $$ just to mount the light ... at least Kessil you can just suspend without paying out more (though tank mount arms are obviously $$ - you can see them in George's new eaReef journal)
> 
> 
> 
> have you had it awhile?
> - invest in a Python type water change system, you can do daily water changes in 10min
> 
> 
> Despite everything tank still looks amazing (& that giant Amano should have everything tidied up in a few )


Thanks alto. It was a toss up between the Radion and the Kessil. I decided on the Radion because of the greater controllability - but knew I'd be pushing it for coverage. One of the original rock scapes was concave to take this in to account, I glossed over that issue somewhat with this scape.
I think it's about time I invested in a python, and I may bring my home made LED floodlight luminaire out of retirement.

Although, I think the amanos are already making a difference...but it could just be wishful thinking



zozo said:


> Hang in there Tim, it is a beatifull setup, would be a pitty to give up and break it down.. I'm somewhat in the same boat with my low tech.. Running since november, first 12 weeks diatoms, and since the summer started BBA, same story 5 kilos of wood raging organics through the tank. And not the organcs i need at the time, plants holding back and if i put ferts in the BBA blooms all over. But i'll be darned i'll wait it out even if it takes a year, i need and want to get this beast under control. Also an open top and stands under a roof window, have no tank lights at all at the moment, a natural lit low tech, if i dare to switch a light on i hear the BBA blowing a horn.
> 
> Hang in there, you can do it..


Thanks Marcel, that's kind of you to say so.
I think underneath it all there's bit of that with me too - not wanting to let it beat me no matter how long it takes. Also I think if I tore it down I'd loose out on a learning process that may help me out in the long run. I'm hoping it'll come good as it matures.
Hope you get yours under control sooner than later



Chris Jackson said:


> Yo, a real rip roarer this one, how did I miss it!
> 
> Hang in there mister....the lowest ebb is the turning of the tide..


Thanks for the encouragement Chris

P.S. one of the amanos took a look at the massive amount of algae and promptly moulted... I'm hoping in preparation for gorging itself silly.


----------



## zozo

As you say so true, giving up spoils the learning curve.. No pain no gain.. 


Troi said:


> Hope you get yours under control sooner than later


Tanks!! Only thing i need is time, switching off the lights did the trick and bba is decreasing.. Only thing is naturaly lit tank, got to go with wath i get, cloudy days less sunny days a lot. But now in summer time it's a lot of hours daylight. Can't anticipate with the intensity, never had an open top under a roof window.. Looks rather cool on sunny days.
Here a pic of 9 o clock in the morning.. Nice experiment..


----------



## Tim Harrison

I love Amano shrimp and otos...

As soon as I'd introduced them I noticed an immediate improvement in the algae situation.

At first I thought it was just wishful thinking, but a week or so down the line and with a little help from me, the algae had all but disappeared. Now it's all gone

So that's number 1 ambition conquered, the next is to grow a carpet of HC Cuba in less than ideal conditions, so far so good though...I hope

Now I'm starting to think about adding some different plants to add more texture above and below the waterline. Any ideas?

I spent the morning on major maintenance, and introduced half a dozen cherries as well...the results...


----------



## Nelson

Great news on the algae .


----------



## Alexander Belchenko

Trying to understand your gadgets below the tank. How do you inject CO2?


----------



## Tim Harrison

Hi thanks Nelson.

Alexander...




I inject CO2 through an Up atomizer...it's now on the outflow just before the inline heater (it was on the inlet but my filter was struggling with the build up of gas). Apparently, it's bad practice to position it before the heater but it's position is dictated by practicalities like cabinet size. However, the heater is in the recommended vertical position so it should be fine; free of gas pockets etc.


----------



## tim

This is looking great Tim, look forward to seeing what you add to the emersed section of the scape, good job on the cleanup mate.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Tim...The power of the clean up crew should not be underestimated

For the record - I think next scape I'll set CO2 to acceptable levels for critters from day one so I can add a clean up crew ASAP after cycling...it's always the way I've done it in the past, and it's worked well. Experimenting with turning the gas up didn't pay off for me...at least this time.

The new light was an experiment as well and I think I may have got a handle on it now. The Radion is set to 55-60%, main photoperiod of 5 hrs with a ramp up and down either side of 30 mins; total 6 hrs.

Much less light than I started with, which was 80-85% with a main photoperiod of 6 hrs, and with 30 mins ramp up and down a total of 7 hrs.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim Glad you got the Algae sorted  Scape looking really cool


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Roy, it's getting there.


----------



## zozo

Sounds like a plan is coming together..  Looking great.. Glad you pulled it through..  This only can get better..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Marcel...just looking for planting inspiration now


----------



## zozo

Well you got already HC up there  takes time but that will look stunning a year from now.. At least  it took me over a year to get this from a few little floating HC cuttings ending up in the moss.. It grows as good emersed as submersed, emersed it grows even smaller leaves and more dense. Now it starts creeping all the way down, it's already half way.. I not sure yet if i want that, it's overgrowing some anubias.. Maybe i take those away and see if it grows all the way down into the substrate.. I supose that's also how it grows in nature if the condition are favorable, into the water instead out of the water.. 




In time you will experience as i do, having a dense creeper well developed emersed makes it easier to grow other plants as well, the HC will provide a very good support layer for other plants root to find hold.. A year ago i used ricia as base and now all ricia is outcompeted by all i planted in the ricia..  What you see on top is Bog pimpernell, eventualy planted this into the HC and see what it is now.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Nice...ecological succession in an aquarium...
That's the idea, part of the take time to let it evolve plan


----------



## zozo

There aint much choice, a few epiphytes, but they are so difficult with air humidity, takes ages to get them used to less and then they still do not grow. I got one anubias nana planted 5 mm bellow the surface, it took a year for 5 leaves to pop emersed. And with the non epiphytes you need some structure to give hold to it's roots if you don't have substrate close to the surface. Then you can grow about anything as long as the roots are in the fertilized water.  In time they might even attach to the wood if there are cracks to grow into. Also got an anubias ducky now growing emersed for 8 months now, but still not established, it grows a new leaf and dies a leaf, java is to sensitive for open top, bolbitis also as is buce, these last 3 realy need a terrarium or paludarium. Plants planted 20cm deep i only mananged to get the echinodorus popping the surface, they are very hardy even will survive on the window sil. Cyperus (helferi) might also do very good. Maybe try to find big emersed grown mother plants for in the back substrate.. Some lfs offer them. Still can be difficult, ive grow a hygrophyla emersed in a greenhous till big enough, put it in the tank in the substrate behind the wood partialy emersed and still just withered away. Didn't like it.  I guess for instand succes from the startup you would need to dry start everything you like to grow emersed at first. Till this all pops over the tanks top, then fill it up and plant the submersed part..  That's what i'm going to try next.. 

http://www.wasserflora.de/aquarienpflanzen/mutterpflanzen-w26


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the info Marcel.
I've always found it very strange...I'm always reading about how much aquatic plants (but not true macrophytes) hate being submersed. If that were the case surely they'd grow happily just above the water surface.
In fact you'd expect them to be positively striving to break free at every opportunity...and not drying up and dying once they did, even taking in to account transition
Maybe they're better adapted to life underwater after all...


----------



## alto

Congratulations 




Troi said:


> As soon as I'd introduced them I noticed an immediate improvement in the algae situation.


It's amazing how much algae control a few shrimp or tiny otos can exert overnight!


I allowed  my non tech window tank to get absolutely green in preparation for the baby otos (that seem to be what's shipping recently - good news is that they seem to arrive quite healthy & minimal losses if placed in tanks with algae ) - after 3-4 days glass walls are down to the hard green spot algae & otos started in on the soft green algae that was beginning to infiltrate the M 'Monte Carlo' & M crenata (which incidentally still produces a nice mix of those "umbrella" shaped leafs associated with emerse culture ... will be interesting to see if these vanish with winter sky) so tank has morphed from Algae Haven to something rather nice that I can actually see again - in less than 1 week


----------



## alto

Troi said:


> you'd expect them to be positively striving to break free at every opportunity...and not drying up and dying once they did,


except I think many come from decidedly tropical air conditions - (oppressive) humid, warm compared to my room atmosphere, especially with close lights


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yeah you're absolutely right...I'll never underestimate their worth again, I kinda thought I could take them or leave them, I was wrong.
My otos, have nice round bellies but I've now started to try and supplement their diet since the algae has disappeared - at least to the human eye. 
I just hope I have better luck feeding them than I have in the past...they just were not interested in anything I gave them. I think I may have a different species this time, so I'm hopeful.
I fed the Amanos last night as well with algae wafers...it was fight night...I've two big females and they literally wrestled for the fragments...the poor little males didn't even try, and as for the cherries...
I ended up dropping bits in here and there to make sure everyone of them got something. 



alto said:


> except I think many come from decidedly tropical air conditions - (oppressive) humid, warm compared to my room atmosphere, especially with close lights


Fair comment


----------



## Nelson

You could just let some of your stems grow long and wrap them round and up the wood.Letting them grow emersed.
These cuttings were just dumped in the Tripartita and Frogbit in my low tech.


----------



## zozo

Troi said:


> Thanks for the info Marcel.
> I've always found it very strange...I'm always reading about how much aquatic plants (but not true macrophytes) hate being submersed. If that were the case surely they'd grow happily just above the water surface.
> In fact you'd expect them to be positively striving to break free at every opportunity...and not drying up and dying once they did, even taking in to account transition
> Maybe they're better adapted to life underwater after all...



I monitored the humidity for a few months with a tiny electronic hygrometer an inch above the surface, averagely it was 45% during the summer, in the winter with the central heating burning it plumited sometimes to 25%.. That is surprisingly low so close to the water surface. My first open top iis now running for about 18 months now and i tried every plant to grow emersed above i also have submersed.. only few species did of the 30 i tried, the ones that did good, where HC, UG, rotala's (except 1), Lilaepsis Brasiliensis, MC, and finaly after a very long time an anubias. ANd i started all as litlle rooted baby cutting just poping the surfac for a milimeter and leave it be.. The only plant going back into transition from submersed to emersed again from the substrate 20 cm deep without much pain was the echinodorus en the rotala indica bonsai. At the time i'm trying a Pogo Stellatus, becaue i see it growing a very thick stem it's tip is already emersed, no idea yet if it goes back to emersed transition.  I got it allso in a wabi kusa and its quite hardy plant taking lower humidity relatively well. ..

My next project will also be a shallow 40x40x20 cm, i also want to experiment more in emersed growth. Open tops with emersed growth are addictive.


----------



## Nelson

How about Marsilea ?.
Or thinking outside of the box .
http://www.mimmacks.co.uk/product.asp?Code=P62
http://www.mimmacks.co.uk/product.asp?Code=P65


----------



## Greenfinger2

zozo said:


> I monitored the humidity for a few months with a tiny electronic hygrometer an inch above the surface, averagely it was 45% during the summer, in the winter with the central heating burning it plumited sometimes to 25%.. That is surprisingly low so close to the water surface. My first open top iis now running for about 18 months now and i tried every plant to grow emersed above i also have submersed.. only few species did of the 30 i tried, the ones that did good, where HC, UG, rotala's (except 1), Lilaepsis Brasiliensis, MC, and finaly after a very long time an anubias. ANd i started all as litlle rooted baby cutting just poping the surfac for a milimeter and leave it be.. The only plant going back into transition from submersed to emersed again from the substrate 20 cm deep without much pain was the echinodorus en the rotala indica bonsai. At the time i'm trying a Pogo Stellatus, becaue i see it growing a very thick stem it's tip is already emersed, no idea yet if it goes back to emersed transition.  I got it allso in a wabi kusa and its quite hardy plant taking lower humidity relatively well. ..
> 
> My next project will also be a shallow 40x40x20 cm, i also want to experiment more in emersed growth. Open tops with emersed growth are addictive.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My next project will also be a shallow 40x40x20 cm, i also want to experiment more in emersed growth. Open tops with emersed growth are addictive.

Sorry to butt in on this great thread.
Go for it Marcel You are so right I am slowing down on Wabi-Kusa  And changing over too Shallows tank scapes the best of both worlds   Shame your Ducky is not doing well .Mine died It does need high humidity like all anubias The pog stellatus will do well but need high light an humidity to turn red.The Pog s in my shallow just  stays green.

It all a learning curve  Big plus we are all learning together and sharing info


----------



## zozo

Hi roy, you too?? intresting.  That's going to be fun..  It's actualy your ducky still growing above my low tech.. As said, growing a leaf and dying a leaf and before it's dead it grows a new one.. This is already going on since you send it to me somewhere last year. I guess in time it will addapt, probaly when more grows around it breathing humidity. More plants close together do better when it comes to air humidity.. Sorry to hear your ducky died, if mine takes of i'll send you back..  And Waby Kusa still is great to prepare plants for the open top shallow. BTW my pog is growing under natural light in a little greenhouse under the roof window, it's dark green with a burgundy hue, but still small. Not yet ready to show off with.. That wabi Kusa stands for 8 months now, all grown from tiny baby cuttings i took out the tank, it's finaly getting somewhere. I'll take some pics soon..


----------



## Andy Thurston

Simply stunning tim

regarding feeding the ottos perhaps cultivating algae on things that you can add to the tank temporarily would keep their bellies nice and round


----------



## Manisha

Hi Troi, This took ages to read - its got such a nice strong hardscape - I love it.

So far from my low tech goals - but that carpet looks so healthy and amazing... I may have to rethink my approach! And also have a new found appreciation for the wonderful Amanos!


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys, this is great, some fantastic discussion and suggestions.
Without your contributions it wouldn't be much of a journal



Big clown said:


> Simply stunning tim regarding feeding the ottos perhaps cultivating algae on things that you can add to the tank temporarily would keep their bellies nice and round


Clever idea Andy, why didn't I think of that


Manisha said:


> Hi Troi, This took ages to read - its got such a nice strong hardscape - I love it.
> 
> So far from my low tech goals - but that carpet looks so healthy and amazing... I may have to rethink my approach! And also have a new found appreciation for the wonderful Amanos!


And thank you Manisha, that's kind of you


----------



## Tim Harrison

It is difficult to grow plants emersed, obviously humidity is the main issue...nice study with the hygrometer Marcel.
I've pretty much had the same experience with the plants you mentioned, they all seem to make the transition from emersed to submersed and back again quite well.
Creating a microclimate using other plants can work well, and I think we've all had varying degrees of success at that, like Neil with his cuttings in Tripartita and Frogbit.
But best of all, like Roy mentioned, it's a learning curve and we're learning together


----------



## zozo

Indeed Tim..  Keep trying and beeing patient usualy pays off.. As long it is green somewhere there is life and hope.. At the time i'm wrestling with a small piece of java fern to make it more hardy to lower humidity.. Started with this last year november in a glass, it still is alive today, survived a fungus attack and now it seems to do ok without a lid already for weeks, if i see it getting in trouble i cover it again. I do not know where it ends, it might take another 8 months to fully addapt and i maybe can take out of the glass and put it above an open top tank. But it still is just a tiny plant. Trying the same with a Bolbitis heudelottii in a little green house same time period now and still alive but barely grew, not humid enough i guess. The Hetroclita next to it didn't realy make it or got overgrown. Dunno yet. Having such a fern above an open top that's my final goal, would be like a cherry on top..  Maybe next year. 

Here it was 8 months ago and here it is today still strugling a bit but holding on without cover now for weeks.



 

The heudelotii, same story, slowly addapting. Darn slowly..


 

Tripartita also does relatively good in low humidity, not realy fast, planted some into the moss on a emersed piece off wood relatively high above the tank.. And is flowering now. Not realy impressive and you have to look twice, but it's a flower. In a controlled greenhouse with same light (natural) it grows 10 times faster..


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's really patient plant husbandry...
I think Amano had two massive _Bolbitis heudelottii_ growing out of his home aquarium. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that it had taken nearly 2 years for them to get to that stage...
I've found that_ E. Tenellus_ does well out of water too, as does _Taxiphyllum barbieri._


----------



## zozo

It indeed takes a lot of time.. And the bigger the plant is the more difficult it is and the more space you need to make the transition. So i tried with very little cuttings and wait for new growth.. Btw do you have a link to that article? Do they eleborate a bit on how he did it? In my theory i think he also started with a small very young plant and what i see on the java and bolbitis, new growth wich formed emersed has more leathery shiny texture..  Old leaves might never addapt fully to low humidity.. Unfortenately i had a major fungus attack, it almost died on me.. But managed to make it survive, more then half of the plants in that glass didn't. 

Taxiphyllum sp. Peakock also  It's also growing on wood outdoor in my garden pond in the waterfalls splash zone.


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Btw do you have a link to that article?


I can't really remember, but I don't think he went in to detail...I'll have a search around


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> Btw do you have a link to that article? Do they eleborate a bit on how he did it? In my theory i think he also started with a small very young plant and what i see on the java and bolbitis, new growth wich formed emersed has more leathery shiny texture..


Hi Marcel I found it. It's an extract from Nature Aquarium Complete Works 1985-2009, p248...



This isn't the scape he mentions above but it's one from the ADA gallery with emersed _B. heudelotti _growth.


----------



## zozo

Wow!  Thanks Tim.. I got to order me that book, now i'm too curious.. That's awsome.. And indeed kinda what i thought.. Years of patience and care..  That where Wabi Kusa comes in to prepare the plants and slowly get them hardy. I've planted a lot of java like that in my low tech, very close to the surface, only the leaves sticking out its tips survived.. One java i got from Roy from one of his WK's, planted it 50% emersed, but it was to early didn't make it. 

I'm not so sure about what is written about the high light i rather believe those metal halides definitely will help to give the plant a tropical climate and probaly create a massive column of moist air above an open tank. I know those lamps get extremely hot. Hence in nature they grow in shaded spots, got a bolbitis in a WK for many months now and it has no no artificial light at all only filtered daylight and its at the base of a piece of wood shaded. In high light it probably grows bigger and faster but i can't believe that's the only contribution to make it work. 

I tried to achieve the same with halogene spots to create more evaporation, they radiate a lot of heat as well. But my roof window spoiled that, have no lights at all above the tank now and a naturaly lit tank. Was the only way the get rid of the algae. I refuse to believe i need metal halides for that.  So i guess it would take me 8 years to proof my theory..  See you when i get there.


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> I refuse to believe i need metal halides for that.


I think on balance it's probably more to do with product placement...


zozo said:


> See you when i get there.


I'll probably still be here


----------



## Tim Harrison

Came home from 2 weeks holiday and found the HC cuba had gone mad forming large dense cushions.
It's also carpeting well despite less than ideal lighting.
I gave it a severe trim today.

Luckily, there wasn't any algae despite very low CO2, I guess the plants had grown so much demand outstripped supply.

I've also ordered a pot of _Anubias nana_ Pangalino from one of our sponsors - Aquarium Gardens, and _Cryptocoryne wendtii_ Kompakt from an online vendor.


----------



## Nelson

You need to go on holiday more often .
Looking great .


----------



## Ryan Thang To

looking awesome as always tim. im liking the floating hc 

Sent from my SM-N915FY using Tapatalk


----------



## zozo

Love that elephant's trunk..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Neil and Ryan, hopefully I'll be getting some fish tomorrow, not sure what yet, I'll wait and see what my local has in stock.


zozo said:


> Love that elephant's trunk..


Haha it's the family pet.. a miniature elephant, Iv'e had him since I was a child. Damn thing always has his trunk in my tank, sucking it dry


----------



## John S

Who's this Tim Harrison guy


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yeah well...that'd be me
It was getting a bit cumbersome and slightly embarrassing introducing myself at events and meetings as Troi AKA Tim or vice-versa


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Neil and Ryan, hopefully I'll be getting some fish tomorrow, not sure what yet, I'll wait and see what my local has in stock.
> 
> Haha it's the family pet.. a miniature elephant, Iv'e had him since I was a child. Damn thing always has his trunk in my tank, sucking it dry



I know we had one too, they can nuisance sometimes, especialy when they grow up..


----------



## Tim Harrison

fortunately mines a genetic pygmy...


----------



## zozo

Yours is awfully cute... And indeed suits your scape.. Wet and and dry phases are good foor HC..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Dusk with LED back lighting...


----------



## Doubu

Wow it's carpeting beautifully (very lush and compact)! May I ask if you trim it often or does it naturally grow that low?

Also, the emersed chat is great =).


----------



## CooKieS

Great but I would like to see more stones and small plants on this HC carpet and the base of the Woods.


----------



## zozo

Such a backlight is realy cool! In a way it just  always pimps a scape to the max and brings a lot more dept. And makes it realy a mesmerizing display piece. I played a while with it and used RGB strips one placed at the bottom and the other at the top of the tank. Where i could control each channel seperately with controlers.. To simulate sun rise and sunset in the background ofcourse with the idea i have i how it would look under water from the surface down to the bottom. When for example tu sun rises it has an more yellowish hue which get more white while the day progresses. And slowly dimmes away into crimson at sunset to turn again into greyish moonlight.. In this heavily dimmed greyish moonlight it very nice possibility to create clouds sliding in front of the moon changing the color in the bakground greyish/greenish/blueish with very  little delicate changes. All possible with RGB, color schemes are about endless where minute changes like 3% color difference can have real nice impact..

Then trying to imagine how this light from above would break through the water surface and change again in color due to the water colums natural color into teh depth towards the bottom. And make this change with that RGB strip from the bottom up. Like a deep blue color from bellow gradualy changing into daylight penetration closer to the surface.

If automated with a programable multichannel controller then an aquarium can realy turn into something better than a television. It makes a tank come to live day and night.
I tried to get an idea to watch under water video's and look at under waterhorizons to see how the light playes. and tried to simulate that and must say it works pretty good.
And because it's only backlight and very faint it gives a awsome depth to the scape, impossible to describe..

Only thing was it was just a test on a non display tank in the backroom. It was few months ago when the jungle wasn't yet a real jungle now my backpanel is almost hidden bihend all plantgrowth. So because i do not realy have to tank for it i did put that project development on a hold and only tested it for a few weeks. To see its potential.

But with such an open background scape as yours, man that would pop the hell out off it.

Anyway bottom line of what i'm trying to say, even without automation, and RGB where you can control each channnel can create much more natural colors which only would enhance this scape to the max. Seeing the above website and trying to create this colors with ledstrips, my eyes setled with the color Honeydew (grey) as best natural looking and relaxing moonlight color replication behind a tank. Honeydew from above, deep blue from bellow and these fade into eachother when comming near to the surface.

Quite a story, but just would love to get my hands on this tank and show what i mean.. Words don't do it, because it sounds like converting a tank into a luna park...
But on the contrary I bet you would drop your jaw if you saw it for real.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Doubu said:


> Wow it's carpeting beautifully (very lush and compact)! May I ask if you trim it often or does it naturally grow that low?
> 
> Also, the emersed chat is great =).


Thanks Doubu, it doesn't grow like that, given half a chance it'll just keep producing new leaves on top of older ones until it forms a dense cushion several cms thick.

Eventually the growth underneath goes yellow and dies back, and I've heard of entire carpets lifting and floating to the surface.
Mine is particularly prone to cushioning since the light isn't even across the substrate.

I've just trimmed it to a cm or so from the substrate and will have to keep trimming to keep it healthy (about once a month or so), it also promotes lateral growth and the spread of the carpet.



CooKieS said:


> Great but I would like to see more stones and small plants on this HC carpet and the base of the Woods.


Thanks CooKieS, me too - I've got some more plants on order
The idea is to let it evolve slowly...

Plus I don't have as many plants as I started with - I had massive problems with melt and algae - most were in vitro and they sometimes don't transition well. This journal is warts 'n' all, so it's all documented in the previous pages.

I've taken a load of stones out to make way for the HC as it's grown and I'll be taking more out to make way for the plants I've ordered.
I want the scape to be plant heavy, not necessarily hardscape heavy - that is if you ignore the giant manzi burl



zozo said:


> Such a backlight is realy cool! In a way it just  always pimps a scape to the max and brings a lot more dept. And makes it realy a mesmerizing display piece. I played a while with it and used RGB strips one placed at the bottom and the other at the top of the tank. Where i could control each channel seperately with controlers.. To simulate sun rise and sunset in the background ofcourse with the idea i have i how it would look under water from the surface down to the bottom. When for example tu sun rises it has an more yellowish hue which get more white while the day progresses. And slowly dimmes away into crimson at sunset to turn again into greyish moonlight.. In this heavily dimmed greyish moonlight it very nice possibility to create clouds sliding in front of the moon changing the color in the bakground greyish/greenish/blueish with very  little delicate changes. All possible with RGB, color schemes are about endless where minute changes like 3% color difference can have real nice impact..
> 
> Then trying to imagine how this light from above would break through the water surface and change again in color due to the water colums natural color into teh depth towards the bottom. And make this change with that RGB strip from the bottom up. Like a deep blue color from bellow gradualy changing into daylight penetration closer to the surface.
> 
> If automated with a programable multichannel controller then an aquarium can realy turn into something better than a television. It makes a tank come to live day and night.
> I tried to get an idea to watch under water video's and look at under waterhorizons to see how the light playes. and tried to simulate that and must say it works pretty good.
> And because it's only backlight and very faint it gives a awsome depth to the scape, impossible to describe..
> 
> Only thing was it was just a test on a non display tank in the backroom. It was few months ago when the jungle wasn't yet a real jungle now my backpanel is almost hidden bihend all plantgrowth. So because i do not realy have to tank for it i did put that project development on a hold and only tested it for a few weeks. To see its potential.
> 
> But with such an open background scape as yours, man that would pop the hell out off it.
> 
> Anyway bottom line of what i'm trying to say, even without automation, and RGB where you can control each channnel can create much more natural colors which only would enhance this scape to the max. Seeing the above website and trying to create this colors with ledstrips, my eyes setled with the color Honeydew (grey) as best natural looking and relaxing moonlight color replication behind a tank. Honeydew from above, deep blue from bellow and these fade into eachother when comming near to the surface.
> 
> Quite a story, but just would love to get my hands on this tank and show what i mean.. Words don't do it, because it sounds like converting a tank into a luna park...
> But on the contrary I bet you would drop your jaw if you saw it for real.


Thanks Marcel...that I'd like to see for sure...it sounds awesome


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks Marcel...that I'd like to see for sure...it sounds awesome


I've tried to get it on video, but when it comes to nightview back light the camera just doesn't pic it up as is real time.. At least not a regular camera. Like with only 8% total light intensity and little 2 to 3 % color changes or intensity change in the backlight coming and fading every few minutes like clouds in the sky play with the moonlight. I did this automated with max 50 random modes per say 12 hour cycle. And it just loops, starts at sundown and stops at sunrise depending on time of your but all programmable.
I did it with the backlight leds and main leds above the tank at the same time.. All not exceding the 8% intensity and play with only llittle percentages.

Such a controler does this in 1% steps each, so it's realy stepless fading without seeing drastic flashes. It's realy mesmerizing if this is done with natural light colors with different white balances. And to sit in a lazy chair watching a tank with such delicate lightplay. That's hypnotizing, beter than a watching movie.. Even the fish and shrimps seem to like it very much and react to it and are more active, most of them are night critters showing an totaly different behaivor than during the day. It's like play time, like they feel much safer and have other stuff on their minds.. And all is in perfect view, fish with flourecent markings sprankle and color up in a way and ambience never seen in a regular tank as we know it. 

I've tried and would love to share it, but impossible to record the real deal on video, it never shows how it looks real time.. When i upped the intensity so the camera picked some of it up it always looked to drastic not even comming close.. Its just not enough light for a camera to pick up the little changes. (For your eyes only  you can see what no one else can see..)

But our eyse do and the tank inmates too.

RGB leds are fun, it's like Bob Ross with lights. For example the color Honey is a very relaxing natural color which is created with RGB in 100% red, 90% green, 67% bleu.
A RGB ledstrip controled with these percentages gives an environmental light in that color.. If you step it down equally 50% red, 45% green 33% bleu, it's the same color dimmed 50%. So this way you can keep going down to 5% red, 4% green and 3% bleu and still have +/- the same light color. And then play with these littlepercentages up to 7-6-5 and 15 minutes later back down to 6-5-4 etc. etc. or change it a bot with more blue in another natural looking withe balance. 

And it aint very expensive to make.. If you know somebody around comfortable with electronics and led drivers.. Drop 'm a ball and set'm up to it.. 

Marketing wise this is nearly impossible to show the public what it can do via a PC screen or what so ever.. If that was easy, it definitely has the potential to become a very popular product in the aquarium hobby.


----------



## Tim Harrison

I know what you mean it is very relaxing and adds a whole dimension not just to the tank but to the whole room.
There would definitely be mileage in it right across the aquarium spectrum, not just us plant nuts. Could be worth investigating although I suspect R&D in to a marketable product would cost a fortune.
The Radion I'm using is pretty good I can do a lot more with it than I'm currently...I just need to sit down and figure out it's finer points.
.


----------



## zozo

Yes its ofcourse the whole design aspect playing a large role to make something multifunctional for all, pumping the costs sky high and false development expenses. But as custom DIY with a bit of inventiveness regarding mounting. Which is actualy very easy, i made small acrylic HOB clip mounts for the strip hanging at the top.. I would be up and running for under $40 with one 5 channel controller.. RGB need 3 channels.. If you keep 1 channel per strip same intensity all over it still can controll 2 RGB strips with remaining 4 channels. But actualy would need 6 channels for 2 strips.. The controllers are the highest expense..

If only use as back light, i guess design aint what you're looking for, rather hidden in the back behind a frosted panel what nobody sees. It's also what i don't like from a lot of the shelf LFS stuff, most of it is over designed and there for 3 times to expensive..

Here hangs my backlight strip at the (open) top, can't even see it from front view.




Tho at the time i only use a daylight white backlight which i can dim on a free channel.. Don't have the extra controler, this one runs on the same controler as the main tank lights.


----------



## Tim Harrison

That's pretty cool...the back panel on my tank is already frosted so it would work well.


----------



## zozo

I made different models for different strips..  all as tiny as possible. about 15 x 10 mm or so..

Well if you ever?? In time drop me a line. I'll make you a few LED strip HOB clips as tiny as possible. Only need to know glass thickness and what kinda strip comes on it.
Have acrylic enough laying around stumbling over it..  Just so you know.. No problemo.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Wow thanks Marcel, I might just do that


----------



## Doubu

Thanks for the clarification Tim - that makes sense why my monte carlo is a big fat bush haha. It works in my case but for my other tank I'll definitely start to trim more aggressively.


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just a quick hand held iPhone video of the HC pearling, not great quality I'm afraid...


----------



## Andy Thurston

nice
should have turned the filter off though


----------



## Tim Harrison

I might do another one with the filter off and compare the results...


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> Yeah well...that'd be me
> It was getting a bit cumbersome and slightly embarrassing introducing myself at events and meetings as Troi AKA Tim or vice-versa



be as that may ... some of us can hardly deal with such massive change ...
maybe a separate (warning) thread - so I don't spend days (& nights) wondering who the flap that Tim Harrison fellow is ... too terrified to click ...



I've no nails left now you know




ETA & same goes with that odd Andy Thurston fellow


----------



## Tim Harrison

Haha...I'm not the only one, a few of us independently decided to use our proper names


----------



## Andy Thurston

Haha perhaps we should put aka in our signatures


----------



## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> independently




 isn't Assimilation part of the Initiation


----------



## tim

Good to see this back on track Tim, very tranquil scape, not sure the use of real names on the forum is going to catch on though


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks tim...

P.S. I would have used my real name from the outset but you beat me to it by a couple of months


----------



## tim

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks tim...
> 
> P.S. I would have used my real name from the outset but you beat me to it by a couple of months


I've always felt slightly guilty for stealing your name


----------



## Tim Harrison

Sorry another pearling video but just for comparison sake, this time with the filter turned off


----------



## Andy Thurston

There no one can argue that its coming from the inline.
Awesome Tim


----------



## JackMartins

Amazing pearling! Congratulations!


----------



## PARAGUAY

Windswept Eternity- a victory for tenacity Tim


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys, for some reason I've had difficulty getting so called "easy" carpeting plants to grow, but so far the HC seems to be doing OK.


----------



## zozo

The problem i had with HC is i loved it to much and see it grow so lush and happily green. Didn't trim it soon enough. And once it's over the edge and the melt kicks in from the substrate up it is very difficult to get it back without taking all of it out. Experienced it not difficult to grow, but rather difficult to maintain it requires a lot of maintenance and know how, it is very unforgiving of you get sloppy. 

It's what you call a zen plant, you need to love and find it relaxing to work on it.. Not a plant for people who are rather lazy than tired and seeing it as work.


----------



## Tim Harrison

It certainly is, not so much the regular and severe trimming required but the netting of all the leaves once trimmed...especially if you've got wood above the surface to snag the net on


----------



## EdwinK

Surface skimmer comes handy in such situations


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> It certainly is, not so much the regular and severe trimming required but the netting of all the leaves once trimmed...especially if you've got wood above the surface to snag the net on


I know that one too, that's excactly how i ended up with a lush green bush of HC on my emersed wood..  Tiny trimmings ending up in the moss and grew on and on and on and i just left it there.. In the tanks substrate i managed to distroy it still after a very promissing dry start, i wasn't able to revive it after the problems started. But emersed it's one of the best and easiest plants you can wish for. 

What i found most difficult is to admit to it that it needs a trim when it looks at it's best. I didn't and payed the price..


----------



## Joe Turner

Incredible results, your perseverance is admirable! Keep it up


----------



## Tim Harrison

zozo said:


> I know that one too, that's excactly how i ended up with a lush green bush of HC on my emersed wood..  Tiny trimmings ending up in the moss and grew on and on and on and i just left it there.. In the tanks substrate i managed to distroy it still after a very promissing dry start, i wasn't able to revive it after the problems started. But emersed it's one of the best and easiest plants you can wish for.
> 
> What i found most difficult is to admit to it that it needs a trim when it looks at it's best. I didn't and payed the price..



That's exactly how it took hold emersed in this and the previuos scape.

And Thanks Joe.

The new plants arrived today...




View from the end...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Just brought 2 dozen or more of these little fellows from Maidenhead Aquatics...http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/boraras-urophthalmoides/
They look as colourful as miniature blind cave fish at the moment but they should colour up nicely once they settle.
Obviously I've turned down my ferocious flow to accommodate them and so far they seem happy - there are plenty of slacks for them to hang out in anyway.


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## Nelson

Lovely looking fish .
I've got a thing for Boraras sp .


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## zozo

I have them too, they indeed color up after a while and show a very bright neon stripe .. Some surface vegitation (shelter) and feeding real food helps, like bloodworm and daphnia etc. They love to stay under the canopy close to the surface.. Have them togheter with the maculatus, started with 20 mac. and 12 urop.. They weren't realy all that healthy unfortunately proably inbred and slowly started disapearing in the first few months.. Now i got about 14 of the 32 left of which i know only 2 did jump.. The 14 i got left seem to be healthy and this poppulation stays steady in numbers for 3 months now, had no more loss. I actualy never found a dead one in the tank, probably eaten buy the barbs or shrimps since they are so small.  I need to buy a few more again, but wait a little longer to see if the numbers stay as is.


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## CooKieS

Nice fishes, got them in my 20l cube, they're looking awesome!


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## Tim Harrison

Nelson said:


> Lovely looking fish .
> I've got a thing for Boraras sp .


Me too...I couldn't believe my luck when I spotted them, and at the right price

@Marcel, I know what you mean, it can be heartbreaking. I had 2 lots of 20 Celestials in my last scape. Must have been a bad batch over the course of a few month all but half a dozen or so died

I don't have floating plants, but hopefully the overhanging branches with attached moss and HC should provide enough cover to make them feel at home.



CooKieS said:


> Nice fishes, got them in my 20l cube, they're looking awesome!


Thanks


----------



## zozo

indeed, that's why i didn't buy those celestials, the are darn expensive €3 a piece and then i see most of them with a flat tummy, like thay already have tuberculosis in the shop. Of few of my rasboras had this to, concave tummy. Probably malnurished or just surviver of the fittest and a bad batch.. But ok sounds rude but for € 1 a piece one can take some changes, buy a lot and see what makes it. Still € 15 down the drain... Probably the name of the game.. .. Hopefully you're lucky and they all make it..

I do also not have a lot of floating vegitation left.. But i have a few long strains of elodea still in the tank which float.. And i see them always very close to it.. You might witness the same with the branches.. I see them all in majority at the surface and accasionaly mid level, but always near the plants.. Rarely in the open, only at feeding time...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Same, concave abdomen, TB. That was over a year ago now, I only have two survivors - male and female.
They're retired now, and perfectly happy in my low-energy with an odd mix of other retired small fish


----------



## Glen Williams

Very nice buddy 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Glen.


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## Tim Harrison

The scape is maturing nicely, and I've attached some more epiphytes to the stump, and added some C. parva to break up the HC lawn
Also, had another trim...HC is hard work
Some more iPhone shots, inc a full frontal...





P.S. Maybe next time I should take the equipment out...


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> HC is hard work


but you are so up for it ...     
looks great!





Tim Harrison said:


> P.S. Maybe next time I should take the equipment out...


no - this is reality, not just the photo ops 

(which look great but also have that unreality component)



Tim Harrison said:


> some C. parva to break up the HC lawn


flamingo!!!


I saw an (old) Amano tank with some red leaf accents - have always wanted whatever that amazing plant was/is 

Fish???


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## rebel

Great lawn and layout!! Loving it...


----------



## Tim Harrison

Thanks Guys
@alto this is what the crypt looks like, it can go a brown red in the right light. I've had these plants, since I came back to the hobby 5 years ago...They've been in my low-energy so their morphology is different but they really appreciate CO2 and fertz and will soon look like those below...







Fish...I have about 30 of these below, but they hide in the dense veg behind the stump, mostly...they're getting a bit more adventurous tho', and I'm starting to see more of them, they seem very perky and happy. They swarm around the tank in a tight shoal, it looks pretty amazing...all except for one which couldn't give a monkey's and is always out on its own


----------



## Manu

Tim Harrison said:


> The scape is maturing nicely, and I've attached some more epiphytes to the stump, and added some C. parva to break up the HC lawn
> Also, had another trim...HC is hard work
> Some more iPhone shots, inc a full frontal...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Maybe next time I should take the equipment out...


Looking awesome, very peaceful, I need this as desktop background 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk


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## Ryan Thang To

oh wow. i really want them fish

Sent from my SM-N915FY using Tapatalk


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## zozo

Ryan Thang To said:


> oh wow. i really want them fish


They are realy stunning up close like that even more.. In real time they are so small, the little glittering details are not visible. These are about the smallest in the trade. 16mm at the most..  If they feel realy happy they will show a very bright flouresent orange stripe on the back and that same color dot in fron of the tail. It depends on the batch also, i got a few from an lfs where they where very healthy in the shop showing full color already also the flouresent stripe.. And i got a few wich where pale as a ghost from another lfs. Those pale ones colored up a bit, but yet after months not developed that flouresent stripe.

I suspect this has to do something with breathing conditions, maybe rather health then just stress from moving. Because i've seen it and bought them, in full ornate already in the lfs. Not losing a spec off color during the move.


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## Daveslaney

Fantastic.
Its looking through journals like this that give me inspiration.
If i can aspire to something half as good ill be well happy. Great stuff.


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## tim

Looks superb Tim.


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## BexHaystack

Nice touch - the way you've planted that Crypt out in the middle of the carpet in the shade of the driftwood branch 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Konrad Michalski

Hi Tim. Where did you get your pangolino from if you don't mind me asking? Cheers.


----------



## JackMartins

Uow! Amazing!
Sadly those fishes in Brazil are quite expensive!


----------



## Doubu

Looking beautiful! I almost have my 90cm tank ready and this is getting me very pumped =D


----------



## Nelson

Wow,great lawn .Love the planting in this and the C.Parva is genius.Looks like it SHOULD be there .


----------



## Tim Harrison

Wow, thanks for all your kind comments guys, they're very much appreciated...


Konrad Michalski said:


> Hi Tim. Where did you get your pangolino from if you don't mind me asking? Cheers.


I got it from Aquarium Gardens, but I think some of our other sponsors also stock it; Aquasabi for one

@Manu and @tim ...great compliments, thanks

And @BexHaystack and @Nelson
Thanks for noticing, I wasn't sure at first but it definitely needed something to balance the scape

@Ryan Thang To, @zozo and @JackMartins They are nice fish, and as Marcel says they're so tiny you have to get close up to see the little glittering details, but the irony is they always scarper if I get too close

@Daveslaney and @Doubu, go for it guys

A shot from the other end...


----------



## Manisha

Enjoying the updates as always


----------



## Tom

Some of my favorite fish, those. Considering something along those lines for my tank, too  the HC is looking great!


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Manisha Thanks, I'll try to keep the updates coming

@Tom Thanks also, I think the fish would be perfect for your ADA 45P, either that or some other species of microrasbora


----------



## Konrad Michalski

Tim Harrison said:


> I got it from Aquarium Gardens, but I think some of our other sponsors also stock it; Aquasabi for one


Thanks Tim
I know quite a few places stock it now but the trouble is, you will never see the photo of what you may get. Your plant is fairly big and healhty so at least it gives me rough ideay what I can expect from Aquarium Gardens.


----------



## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Stunning Scape mate love the fish too


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Greenfinger2, thanks Roy

Quick update...I only have 15 or so Rasboras left, that's about half of what I started with. But the rest seem healthy and have coloured up nicely.

The tank has been a bit neglected and needs a serious trim before the carpet starts to lift and the moss blots out the light. I haven't shown any photos pre-trim before, always forgot. So here they are...


----------



## Doubu

It looks very lush and full! I actually quite like the carpet like that, perhaps a trim near the front to slowly get higher and higher (fake slopes? =D?). Your carpet was the main reason I chose to go back to monte carlo in my 90cm!


----------



## Nelson

That's looking amazing Tim .
Neglect seems to work .Sorry about the fish .


----------



## alto

This is such a lovely tank - so glad you persevered 

Commiserations on the fish losses

I'm bad at carpet trimming too - after a few months you can just lift it & section out clumps & replant   - it fills in fast 
 (even when you're lazy about all the important CO2 & lighting & fertilizing regimes like me )


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Doubu, thanks. I like the carpet like this too, but I'm concerned if I leave it any longer it may start to die underneath and lift from the substrate. Although, TBH this is my first HC carpet so I'm not sure what I can get away with

@Nelson, thanks Neil, healthy neglect usually works for me once the plant biomass has reached a critical point. 
The Fish, I'm a little disappointed, probably some wasting disease like TB, I can't remember last when I had a batch of fish without loosing at least a few individuals. 
Coincidentally, I walked in to the study this morning to find one of my two remaining otos on the floor as well...

@alto, Thanks also, maybe I'll leave the carpet a little longer and keep a close eye on it, see if I can push the boundaries a little


----------



## Aqua360

That looks superb Tim, tank shape and plant health is spot on!


----------



## Manisha

Sorry about your fish Tim  I guess micro rasboras are so tiny & delicate - it leaves them quire vulnerable to disease. I'm sure if my tank didn't have a lid/hood all my Ottos wouldn't be present either! Obe of my fave journals as started reading whilst still lurking/ new member on ukaps so lovely to see the tank progressing in 'real time' for me ☺


----------



## zozo

That looks realy awsome Tim.. It would hurt me to trim that..  But it's indeed something necessary... Also the emersed growth looks terific on this tank.. 
Sorry for the rasboras, i'm in the same boat here, started with 32 of which are only 8 left. But these 8 keep on going strong for a while now, not lost any more for the last few months.. I guess it's keep adding till we got a steady and healthy population.


----------



## Tim Harrison

@Aqua360, thanks, I seemed to have found the right balance...I did push the envelope for a couple of weeks, or so, by upping the photoperiod etc, but I started to get algae creeping in, so I restored it to the original parameters and all has recovered well...if it ain't broke don't fix it

@Manisha, thanks that's a really nice comment, and I've tried to show warts 'a' all in real time, although it doesn't always make good viewing

@zozo, thanks Marcel...It did...that is hurt me too. I started trimming the stems, and then the moss, and then thought...what the heck I may as well go for it.
So nearly 2 hours later the whole scape has had a very short back and sides
I'll post some pics later after it gets dark - I get too much reflection otherwise even with the blind down.

As for the fish...it seems to me that at least around here, and in MK where I used to live, it's become a serious problem.
I think maybe breeders and LFS could perhaps do a little more to stamp out these kind of diseases.

I think maybe this scape has another couple of trims/months in it then I'll try to get some half decent images without the equipment in (hard with just an iPhone) and strip it down.
I've got my eye on a new tank, but don't have the space or time for MTS


----------



## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> I think maybe breeders and LFS could perhaps do a little more to stamp out these kind of diseases.



I believe i mentioned it before, if they are already pale in the LFS, leave them be and let them die and or recuperate there.. I've seen them in the LFS in ful ornate color, so there is no other excuse for them to be pale if not sick or heavily stressed.. I never buy a pale rasbora again with the silly excuse they color back up if fed with the right food. I might would kept believing that if i haven't seen them vibrantly healthy in an other store.

I guess these little fellows became rather very popular since the nano era is.. I can give them a break that it's not easy to sellectively catch these mini's and only distribute the realy healthy ones. It's up to us, to know when not the buy them, the seller only wants to make easy money and 99% of the customers wont take no for an answer and vist the other store if they get a no... Same story with the oto's, don't buy freshly arrived oto's from the lfs they tend to die off easily if stressed to much.  Those rasboras are obviously susceptible to that too..


----------



## Tim Harrison

Yeah, I agree totally, it's 101 livestock buying.
The LFSs I've bought from in the past have often been very responsible and will not sell fish if they think there is anything wrong with them. Or if they've just received them, kept them in quarantine for a while.
But wasting diseases like TB are insidious, and some fish maybe carriers, so it won't always be necessarily obvious the disease is present until the other fish start to show symptoms.
More worrying is...apparently the disease is zoonotic.
So I guess what I mean is more could be done to control the disease at source.


----------



## stu_

Tim Harrison said:


> More worrying is...apparently the disease is zoonotic.
> So I guess what I mean is more could be done to control the disease at source.


True.A member of another forum I use to post on,got infected through a cut on the hand.
Tank is looking lush mate.Worth the effort.


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> More worrying is...apparently the disease is zoonotic.



I didn't know that one.. 



stu_ said:


> True.A member of another forum I use to post on,got infected through a cut on the hand.



Especialy with TB i've seen some reports stating it's mutating and strains are found resistant against know treatments. 

And the LFS is possibly spreading it uncontrolled to urn a penny on a 16mm sized fish?  That's rather alarming.. Nice twist to the hobby..


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## Tim Harrison

Who would have thought that such a passive hobby could be so fraught with danger...who needs rock climbing and skydiving


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Who would have thought that such a passive hobby could be so fraught with danger...who needs rock climbing and skydiving



I still got an very old NoFear hat from my skateboarding days.. Never tought this hobby would give me a reason to wear that one again when cleaning the tank.


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## Doubu

Ahhh it's a Cuba carpet! This entire time I thought it was Monte Carlo? My bad. I noticed with my Rasboras that they always get em at the LFS really skinny. They're never quite healthy and it's pretty consistent every time across the board. I figured that I have to overfeed to fatten them up which has worked quite well - if they start eating they tend to live! Baby brine shrimp does the trick for me. They're timid so I put it in and run back, it also floats in the water column so they have enough time to still see it.

Sent from my HUAWEI SCL-L04 using Tapatalk


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## Doubu

Won't let me edit my above post for some reason... I thought I had asked you a while back if you had to trim it all the time to keep it so low? I wonder which carpet I got myself confused with (many beautiful tanks on UKAPS). Maybe I'm just confusing myself haha. At work now so it's easier to type - but I also forgot to mention that I think you made great plant selections to go with the Cuba (which needs highlighting that can often times cause issues...)!


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## Tim Harrison

@Doubu, I've been feeding mine frozen cyclops, that seems to do the trick as well
And thanks I chose the plants to try and keep a sense of perspective, that is make the tank look much bigger than it really is...I guess it must have worked if you mistook HC for MC


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## tim

This is a great scape Tim, I really like the dark areas contrast with the open area of the hc carpet, is that hc growing emersed on the top branches ? Any plans to add more plants to that area ? The hc will make a great planting medium for various other plants.


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## CooKieS

I agree with Tim, you can try some staurogyne repens beetween Wood and hc carpet to add some depth. 

Btw never had any issues with my boraras but they were good feeded at my LFS. As Doubu said, that´s rare! Picker eaters for the first weeks but now they eat micro flakes every day.


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## Tim Harrison

Another update, a few quick iPhone shots of the scape halfway through trimming, trimmed, and finally the large amount of trimmed plant mass...

It's looking a bit spartan, but it'll soon grow back, and so far each time it does it looks a little better than before.


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## Nelson

Lawn still looks lush after trimming .


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim nice trim there  It is amazing how much we trim off You should do a Wabi-Kusa with your off cuts


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## Tim Harrison

@tim and @CooKieS, I'm way ahead of you on that, although @Greenfinger2 Roy I didn't use the trimmings from this tank 

And @Nelson, thanks Neil.

I've been meaning to create a Wabi-Kusa thingy, but never got round to it until yesterday.
I've used the black tights, Tropica plant substrate, and Christmas moss method and stuck in a few crypts...parva, wendetii compact, green and tropica. And just for the hell of it some of the java fern you sent me tim

I've jammed it in on the flat recess of the stump just below the waterline and trimmed the leaves back...we'll see how it does


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## Tim Harrison

Thought I may as well throw in some close ups as well and, at the total opposite end of the spectrum, a final shot of the tank in context...


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Nice Photo shots  Loving the W-K it should do very well in that place


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## Tim Harrison

@Greenfinger2, thanks Roy, that's good to know


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## slawson_92

updates looking very good. the bright, fresh green carpet in contrast to the dark shadowing around the wood is fabulous, and looking very healthy


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## Tim Harrison

@slawson_92, thanks


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## PARAGUAY

Looks great Tim


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## Tim Harrison

@PARAGUAY, thanks


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## zozo

Awsome idea with the substarte ball on top..   Nice pictures too..
Seeing it now as complete picture in the room it looks realy stunning.. I had the same idea scape in mind with rock instead of wood in a shallow cube and imagined a small lilly with floaters where you planted the parva..


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## Tim Harrison

@zozo, thanks Marcel. That's sounds like a great idea. I did something similar with an Aponogeton sp. I think it was a natans/ulvaceus hybrid, anyway it produced floating leaves and looked amazing.


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> Aponogeton sp.


Also great plant, lately ordered the tru natans from Indonesia (ebay) only one selling it, but both times it arrived completely dried out. So i give up on it ordering it.. It's a rare plant to find. I guess it will be ecause of it's alledged dormancy. But a truely wonderfull plant..  Whit the lilie is also a stunning eye catcher in such a setup.. The only drawback could be the 10x turnover in a high tech. That's not what the floaters like, if these find no rest and kept dragged under they keep on growing.. More and other floaters to give the lilies floater support are realy needed. So the lilies floater is not constantly dragged under by the flow.

Also got one in the low tech now.. See the stem of the floater, it keeps growing and curling because it still gets to much flow for now. And it's only 4x turnover




This is a burgundy princess.. They say to large for aquarium.. But that's not fully true.. If a very young small runner is cut away from the adult tuber and planted it will take several years before it becomes to big. That is if not regularly trimmed.. This one is such a runner cut off a 5 x 5mm piece from the adult tuber and planted it 7 months ago. Shrimps are a perfect size comparison.. This one is for years to come..  Aledged unsuitable for aquarium.. Myth busted.. We have many options more then described..


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## Tim Harrison

It seems I was a little pessimistic with regards the numbers of rasbora left...
I happened to look over at the tank today, whilst working at my desk, and there were in excess of 22 in a tight shoal; haven't seen that many together since they were first introduced,
Waited, with my iPhone pressed up against the glass, for a decent shot; only a few of them obliged though...and not a decent shot to be had, unfortunately.
These are the best I got....thought I'd post them anyway, if only as proof of existence


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Fish are hard to get in a shoal  photo.That's why I stick to plants  Love the swimming shrimp in the 2nd photo.


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## Doubu

Ahhh! The black tights what a great idea. I was sewing bags with thread and needle and that was... not very efficient and not that easy lol. Looks great and lush! Love the office/workspace set-up!


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## Joe Turner

Love the tights Wabi-Kusa, this has inspired me to try it in a new scape I'm setting up. Any updates on how it's doing?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks for the kind comments guys, just noticed them. My participation is a bit sporadic at the mo'
The scape has been left to its own devices recently, only one water change in about a month, and it's becoming overgrown...just waiting for my HC carpet to start lifting
But just don't have the time or inclination for an extended maintenance session. Will post a pic soon.


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## Manisha

A warts & all shot never goes a miss...☺


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## Tim Harrison

Some warts 'n ' all iPhone shots...no water changes for over a month, sporadic fertz, and absolutely no maintenance for...well a very long time, just top ups


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## foxfish

A massive success.....


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## tim

Can't see any warts there Tim, looks stunning


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## BexHaystack

Aaaaaaargh... I can't look... it's horrible 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Nelson

I think it's disgusting that you've neglected it so much,yet it looks so good ! ............


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim,   Looking fab


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## tadabis

Nice one!


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## PARAGUAY

Dont seem fair Tim goin all this trouble to get algae and failing miserably


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## zozo

Awsome tank..

What could also look realy good is a H. pinatifida (or something a like) in the emersed part growing out of the HC..  Same as what you did with the crypt submersed..But now idea how it would hold in lower humidity, might need to start realy small..  Or a grasy plant, i'm trying a small Carex like that at the moment doing realy good..


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## zozo

Nelson said:


> I think it's disgusting that you've neglected it so much,yet it looks so good ! ............


Not fair isn't it??.. He's a scary dude, wonder what more he has up his sleeve to shock us with.


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## Tim Harrison

Wow, thanks for the complements guys and the likes. 
If it makes you feel better it doesn't necessarily bare up well under close scrutiny, there is quite a bit of staghorn algae on the buces

@zozo, good idea Marcel I was thinking of doing something like that, Tim suggested something similar a while back. When I get time I'll have a go.


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## zozo

Tim Harrison said:


> there is quite a bit of staghorn algae on the buces


Who doesn't (in a high light tank)? I mean without nuking them with glut constantly or a few weeks before the photo shoot.
My buces seem to be clean, till i go on macro, then it reveales they seem to love eachother and being married..


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## Nelson

Tim Harrison said:


> If it makes you feel better it doesn't necessarily bare up well under close scrutiny, there is quite a bit of staghorn algae on the buces


Yes,it makes me feel a lot better .


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## Tim Harrison

Been struggling a bit recently, so not been able to spend any time on my tank; time for a re-scape I think...





Spot the flower





So that's what a lifted carpet looks like


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim, Nice to see you back mate. Ho wow it has got a little over grown  Well you have plenty of plants for the rescape.

Looking forward to seeing the rescape Any ideas yet


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## Nelson

The neglect is awful .
I'd be ashamed, very ashamed .


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## zozo

Looked kinda awsome.. Till the carpet lifted..


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> So that's what a lifted carpet looks like


how else do you think all those HC/MC "matts" end up on ebay  

Plants look healthy & now you have an exciting holidays project 

What's the surface cover plant?


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## dw1305

Hi all,





alto said:


> What's the surface cover plant?


_Heteranthera zosterifolia, _I found the flower.

cheers Darrel


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## Ryan Thang To

Hey tim
I know how you feel mate. When you see you tank like that its best to rescape or leave it for the amanos as there new home


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## PARAGUAY

Living up to name of Windswept Tim.


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## zozo

PARAGUAY said:


> Living up to name of Windswept Tim.


Are you refering to the Scottish Craft Ale?


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks guys, thought it was an opportunity, not to be missed, to live up to the subtitle...warts an' all

@Greenfinger2 thanks Roy...my participation will be a bit sporadic at the mo', as will be my aquascaping; but my desire to rescape is gradually winning the day
As you know I've had my eye on an AquaOpti 85 for a while now (it's got the same footprint as the shallow so it will fit my IKEA hacked stand perfectly); I'll probably take the plunge in the new year.
It'll be a slow burner, just enough light, CO2 and fertz to keep relatively "easy plants" happy, again something I've been meaning to do for a couple of years; I had to have a go the carpet thing first.
But the overriding consideration is low maintenance...

@Nelson haha...it was a science project, it was deliberate to see what would happen, and how long it would take.
I now know how long I can leave a HC carpet before it needs trimming
All essential knowledge for the lazy aquascaper.

@zozo, I thought that too Marcel

@alto I have an embarrassment of plants now, and quite a few emergent ready for a WK.

@dw1305 thanks Darrel, that it is and it's been flowering steadily for a week or so, shame I don't have a camera with a macro lens.

@Ryan Thang To you're right about that, I've got so many cherries not sure what to do with them; they love it in there...on that note not seen any fish for some time; but I'm sure they're in there somewhere...

@PARAGUAY it is looking a bit dishevelled...though it's so choked now I doubt there is much flow getting through...one thing is for sure...no algae


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Tim Harrison said:


> on that note not seen any fish for some time; but I'm sure they're in there somewhere...


They'll be fine. In fact I think you will now have more of them than the last time you saw them.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison

A nice thought...that although the scape may not be that aesthetically pleasing anymore the inhabitants may feel so at home they breed


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## dw1305

Hi all, 





Tim Harrison said:


> that although the scape may not be that aesthetically pleasing anymore the inhabitants may feel so at home they breed


I think generally the more "overgrown" their habitat is the happier small fish feel. It breaks up "line of sight", from both under-water and above, it generates live food (Rotifers etc) and there is more chance of eggs and fry surviving. 

What I don't know with the _Boraras_ species is how soft the water needs to be for successful spawning, my suspicion would be that if the water is hard enough for Cherry Shrimps it may be too hard for successful egg development.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I think generally the more "overgrown" their habitat is the happier small fish feel. It breaks up "line of sight", from both under-water and above, it generates live food (Rotifers etc) and there is more chance of eggs and fry surviving.
> 
> What I don't know with the _Boraras_ species is how soft the water needs to be for successful spawning, my suspicion would be that if the water is hard enough for Cherry Shrimps it may be too hard for successful egg development.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I think you are absolutely correct..  Tho i have no experience yet with boraras.. But the Trichopsis Pumila did.. And these are reportedly not the easiest to breed. But i did nothing special just kept them in an extremely densly planted tank for several weeks. By now they are rehomed again.. And a 6 weeks later i spoted a unknown babyfish rarely comming out of hiding in the tank the pumila where previously in.. After 3 weeks it first showed it grew bigger, more bold and showed itself longer and managed to identify it as a baby pumila. So the parents spawned in the short time they where in this aquarium. Till now i could only count one baby, no idea if there are more in hiding in the dense planting. It still is only about 5mm in size.  It must be feeding on rotifiers etc.. I did nothing special except not trimming plants for a long periode..


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## Manisha

zozo said:


> I think you are absolutely correct..  Tho i have no experience yet with boraras.. But the Trichopsis Pumila did.. And these are reportedly not the easiest to breed. But i did nothing special just kept them in an extremely densly planted tank for several weeks. By now they are rehomed again.. And a 6 weeks later i spoted a unknown babyfish rarely comming out of hiding in the tank the pumila where previously in.. After 3 weeks it first showed it grew bigger, more bold and showed itself longer and managed to identify it as a baby pumila. So the parents spawned in the short time they where in this aquarium. Till now i could only count one baby, no idea if there are more in hiding in the dense planting. It still is only about 5mm in size.  It must be feeding on rotifiers etc.. I did nothing special except not trimming plants for a long periode..



Awww!


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## Manisha

All looks very healthy in spite of your flying carpet ☺


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Manisha...shame it can't transport me anywhere...But hopefully my next scape will rise from the ashes like a phoenix


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## jlugo

What a gorgeous tank! Congratulations!!

I'm using the Ecotech Radion XR15 too.... can you share with us your light configuration or share your template? Still can't find the right configuration on mine. In what level you consider your light? Medium, High?

Thank you!


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## Tim Harrison

Hi Jlugo, and thanks. The config is below...


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## Tim Harrison

Managed a half decent image of the_ Heteranthera zosterifolia _flowering.
Still haven't gotten around to tearing this down, maybe I'll leave it for a while yet...


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## Greenfinger2

Hi Tim Wonderful flower


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## Costa

Tim Harrison said:


> Hi Jlugo, and thanks. The config is below...
> 
> View attachment 96296



What app is that? Does it work with certain lights?


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## Tim Harrison

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Tim Wonderful flower


Thanks Roy...I think it's always special when the plants flower in our aquariums



Costa said:


> What app is that? Does it work with certain lights?


It's a dedicated Radion app.


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## GHNelson

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Tim Wonderful flower


 
Added to Plant Pictures!....


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Hoggie


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## Tim Harrison

Some pics of emergent growth...



IMG_0780 by Tim Harrison, on Flickr


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## alto

Nice

What's the bronze plant in the middle photo?

Also demand a FTS of what's happening beneath


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## Nelson

Brilliant .


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## Alexander Belchenko

It looks like you drain it completely and turned into dry paludarium.


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## Berlioz

Ooh, emersed crypts, awesome!


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## tim

Stunning Tim


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks again guys inc @Nelson and @tim for your kind comments
@Alexander Belchenko you're not far wrong it's just that the weeds have almost completely taken over.
@alto - I hesitate to post this FTS. and but here goes...




@alto, @Berlioz is on the money, the bronze plant is a Crypt, C. wendtii "kompact'. I've given it a hard time allowing it to adapt from emersed to submersed growth and back again, but it's thriving...


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## Nelson

Wow .
Well you did want some emersed growth .


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## alto

Tim Harrison said:


> I hesitate to post this FTS. and but here goes...


Fabulous!



Tim Harrison said:


> the bronze plant is a Crypt, C. wendtii "kompact'. I've given it a hard time allowing it to adapt from emersed to submersed growth and back again, but it's thriving...


Thanks  I thought it must be a crypt - nice to know which one (not really available here - though some are slipping it in)

Of course now I want those underwater shots 
- it's a lovely tank in all it's guises 

It's transforming into those Amazon floating (plant) rafts


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## Tim Harrison

Thought I'd better do something with this scape and came to the conclusion that there might still be some mileage in it yet...
So...after some serious hacking and a bucket load of cuttings later...mission accomplished...
I took advantage of the emersed growth and planted some cuttings on the top of the stump as well.

And good news...I still have around 20 or so micro Rasboras left...very fat micro Rasboras I might add

Next is replanting the carpet, but this time it's going to be a lower maintenance mixed carpet of micro sword, Stauro, Glosso, and H. tripartitia 'Japan'.

Can I bring this scape back from the brink...only time will tell...


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## Tim Harrison

This is as far as I have got with the rejig.

There has been a lot of cleaning, and syphoning of mulm
Three 80% water changes later and I could start to think about reestablishing the carpet, which I had second thoughts about.

I had a some HC Cuba left and couldn't bare to recycle it. Instead I planted it with some micro sword, which I think has added a little more texture and a contrasting darker green.

I've also planted some Ludwigia sp 'Mini Super Red' at the back either side of the stump. Hopefully, it'll add a splash of colour eventually.


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## doylecolmdoyle

That would have taken some trimming! nice work, what where you feeding the fish when it was very overgrown?


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## Tim Harrison

Hi thanks...I was feeding the fish a combination of frozen food and micro flakes. But I think their diet was also greatly supplemented by shrimplets and micro organisms that would have thrived in the overgrown conditions. When they made an appearance after I'd chopped the vegetation back they were very fat


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## Tim Harrison

I've not been able to do very much with this scape at all since I last posted, so it's become an overgrown swamp type thing again. At least the critters love it, and the emergent growth looks pretty cool...


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## zozo

That looks indeed awsome! And very healthy.. Especialy (i assume) that pogo erectus, it looks like a little conifer..


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## Westyggx

Looks awesome that. How did the new carpet go?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

@zozo Thanks Marcel, it is _P. erectus.
_
@Westyggx Thanks. The carpet is covering well, you can see it in the background in the top image, but it's very unkempt. The micro sword (_L. brasiliensis) _I planted has gone a bit berserk.


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## Lindy

I haven't been on here in ages and all your tanks are stunning Tim!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison

Thanks Lindy, that's kind of you to say so 
Now I'm back from my hols I'm finally going to get Return of the Shallow up an running.


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