# Sera reactor problem



## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

Hello ,

I have an issue with sera reactor 1000. It is only 2 days now that i am using it and i cant see any co2 in my measurements , drop checker is blue and my ph high.

It is very weird since my connections are fine , there are no leaks and i am putting about 4-5 bubbles/s into 60 gallon of water.
I can see the small bubbles into the chamber but i can also see some bubbles escaping from the output (any solution for this?)
My filter is jbl 1501e.

So, my main issue is that for some reason there is no co2 into my tank. If i change to my inline difusser at the same rate of b/s , my dropchecker turns green. With the reactor it is like i dont put any co2 inside.

And a minor issue is that i see water into the co2 hose when the co2 is off. It is between the check valve and the reactor . Probably gravity? Is this a problem?

Thank you for your time


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## Edvet (20 Jun 2018)

Does it look like this?"


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## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

Edvet said:


> Does it look like this?"



It is the exact same reactor if this is what you mean Edvet.
I can see the microbubbles into the reactors chamber but my drop checker doesnt go green and my ph does not change.
It is like i am not putting co2 into the tank but i do..


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## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

Edvet said:


> Does it look like this?"



I had my regulator at wrong psi . It needs about 10-15 psi and i was above 30 psi because i forgot it there since i had uninstall my inline difusser.
Is this maybe the problem or it doesnt matter?


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## Edvet (20 Jun 2018)

Sounds like a leak to me.


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## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

Edvet said:


> Sounds like a leak to me.


i checked for leaks with foam and i found zero leaks..
regulator pressure is also stable..


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## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

What if i put a sponge inside chamber? Does this make any sense in terms of efficiency?


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## Edvet (20 Jun 2018)

Don't expect so, you are not loosing a lot off bubbles out of the reactor.
Still if you put in the same amount of bubbles (compared to your diffusor), you shouldn't be losing CO2 in the column ( thus getting less CO2) and it's not not getting dissolved in the reactor. Logic dictates a leak.


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## Fred13 (20 Jun 2018)

Edvet said:


> Don't expect so, you are not loosing a lot off bubbles out of the reactor.
> Still if you put in the same amount of bubbles (compared to your diffusor), you shouldn't be losing CO2 in the column ( thus getting less CO2) and it's not not getting dissolved in the reactor. Logic dictates a leak.


Ok Edvet thank you very much,
I will reconnect everything , filter hoses, co2 hose and i will spray foam again into every single part to see if there is actually a leak..


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## Fred13 (21 Jun 2018)

Hello,
I have zero leaks and issue consists. 
I am starting to believe that co2 is getting trapped into the chamber as an air pocket and my pump is not enough strong to break it.

My filter is JBL1501 , it is rated higher than enough.
I am thinking of going back to inline difusser. 
Shall i put it at my inlet to avoid mist? I have lots of media inside so it maybe fully dissoluted before reaches the impeller?


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## Edvet (21 Jun 2018)

If the diffusor works i would go back to that, why did you want to change?


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## Fred13 (21 Jun 2018)

Edvet said:


> If the diffusor works i would go back to that, why did you want to change?


I dont like the mist inside the tank Edvet.. 
I prefer to be clear water............


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

Have it bit of problem with sera 1000 and im not sure what and why its that problem happend!
Im using this reactor and using JBL pro flora bublles counter 10BPS etc...Tank 500L hightech..
Problem is after while i can see in the reactor the water level is dropping down and im not sure why its that happend..It is Air or co2 no disolved?
My filter is oase Biomaster Thermo 600 with outflow 1250L/h
I did try remove some media from filter but still same problem?
Any advice why its that happend..The noise from sera its really annoing!
Hope for help.
Thank you!


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## foxfish (30 Mar 2019)

Yes it is trapped C02, the reactor is not big enough to cope with the amount needed for 500l.
The gas will still dissolve when the supply it shut off but it might take some time!


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

oh yeah..But the sera customer service told me the reactor 1000 is for aquarium 600l and more..So i dont undersand..If i will put extra pump on outflow from filter and connec it to the reactor for more outflow lets say from 1250l/h will increase to 2000l/h if that will change or not?thanks


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## ian_m (30 Mar 2019)

Way too small for 500l is your issue. See Zeus's 500l tank, in featured journals on how to do reactors correctly on a large tank.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/olympus-is-calling-red-mist-feeddha.43046/


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## Easternlethal (30 Mar 2019)

If you're putting in co2 and there's no leak then its getting into the water column. Maybe not as efficiently and not dissolving 100% for one reason or another but who cares. Are the plants, fish doing ok? If so then just throw away the drop checker. 

Sure you can play around with the equipment all day long with sponges, different pumps etc.etc. But you won't need them to grow a good aquascape.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk


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## Konsa (30 Mar 2019)

Hi
Those reactors are very flow dependant.I used one on my 60cm with 800l/h filter and much lower bps CO2 and it was strugling to dissolve that due to insufficient flow through it 
Regards Konsa


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

Easternlethal said:


> If you're putting in co2 and there's no leak then its getting into the water column. Maybe not as efficiently and not dissolving 100% for one reason or another but who cares. Are the plants, fish doing ok? If so then just throw away the drop checker.
> 
> Sure you can play around with the equipment all day long with sponges, different pumps etc.etc. But you won't need them to grow a good aquascape.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk





Hi.
Yes i know what you mean....Drop checker is lime green but i cant compare tothe drop checker because i have platinum soil from Tropica and ADA stones and they are already changing the PH and KH...Last time i was checked and PH was 7 and KH 3-4 ...its inccorect....Im trying to say i wanted inrease bit more the co2 as i have a lot surface move ....And still have some green spot algea on the plants and bit on the glass..But i cant..The reactor is not powerfull inaf..When i contact sera CS they told me 10bps etc  is too much!!!! ...I did try to explain them is depend about your lighting ,plants, and size of the tank and surface level!....So if there will be no option im still under warranty and have 60 days to send the Sera back to seller......I dont mind there is not disolving co2..I mind the noise and when my GF comming back shes going to kill me!......


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> Those reactors are very flow dependant.I used one on my 60cm with 800l/h filter and much lower bps CO2 and it was strugling to dissolve that due to insufficient flow through it
> Regards Konsa


So you mean if i will connect external pump on outflow from filter to the hose and connect to the reactor and increase the outflow etc 2000-2500l/h it will change something?..Can disolve the co2 quicker?..thanks.


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## Easternlethal (30 Mar 2019)

If you can pump in 4-5bps without filling the reactor with air and causing the pump to fail at the end of the day then you can assume it's going into the water.

But if you want to fine tune your reactor set up for optimal efficiency then you are facing the main problem with using reactors and canister filters - because Konsa is right that reactors depend a lot on flow and you cannot easily change because you are constricted by the canister's pump. Then you either have to change the canister until you find the right one for the reactor or attach another pump in series to your canister output (which will eventually cause a strain between the two pumps working at different capacities and cause problems), or find a canister which can house different pumps and get a variable speed pump.

For this reason I think that manufacturers of reactors should specify flow rates necessary rather than the size of the tank, which to me is useless and also misleading.

If you want to avoid this hassle (esp more noise) then consider switching to a diffuser. An inefficient reactor which pumps co2 into the water without dissolving is basically just a diffuser, but very good aquascapes are being achieved with them anyway.


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## Zeus. (30 Mar 2019)

Stefan34 said:


> So you mean if i will connect external pump on outflow from filter to the hose and connect to the reactor and increase the outflow etc 2000-2500l/h it will change something?



the internal Pressure in the reactor will increase as will the flow, the increase in pressure should increase the CO2 uptake, but the increased flow may force the bubbles out of the bottom of the reactor.


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

Zeus. said:


> the internal Pressure in the reactor will increase as will the flow, the increase in pressure should increase the CO2 uptake, but the increased flow may force the bubbles out of the bottom of the reactor.




You right..If i will increase the flow there may will be not inaf time to disolve all co2 cose the reactor is to small like people here said!..So i decide to sent the reactor back...using for while bazooka atomizer -difuser and order better one...I saw your video and set up..im sure its working but its too much staf...my GF will kill me if she will see that... But anyway Nice job!


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## obsessed (30 Mar 2019)

Zeus. said:


> but the increased flow may force the bubbles out of the bottom of the reactor.


I just removed 2 of these.. I had them set up with independent loop( own pump) 1000 lph.. for each 1.. the gas build up in the reactor is because they cannot handle the amount of co2 your pushing through it.. the build up in the reactor is mixed co2 and O2..  as soon as you shut off the co2 the the ph will slowly rise even with half of the reactor seemingly full of co2.. it can't be.. the co2 and o2 that's trapped can take 5 or 6 hour to empty out of the sera 1000 and if you have constant ph meter you can confirm this.. don't believe the manufacturer.. it can handle 5 or 6 dependant on bc no mater what flow you push through it.. the more you flow through the reactor the bigger the bubbles get until it reaches its max and then just fills up.. I think the splashing of water inside the reactor when you shut of the co2 somehow causes it to dilute with o2


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## obsessed (30 Mar 2019)

Easternlethal said:


> An inefficient reactor which pumps co2 into the water without dissolving is basically just a diffuser


 I no the op is sending it back but.. Quote says it all..


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## Stefan34 (30 Mar 2019)

obsessed said:


> I just removed 2 of these.. I had them set up with independent loop( own pump) 1000 lph.. for each 1.. the gas build up in the reactor is because they cannot handle the amount of co2 your pushing through it.. the build up in the reactor is mixed co2 and O2..  as soon as you shut off the co2 the the ph will slowly rise even with half of the reactor seemingly full of co2.. it can't be.. the co2 and o2 that's trapped can take 5 or 6 hour to empty out of the sera 1000 and if you have constant ph meter you can confirm this.. don't believe the manufacturer.. it can handle 5 or 6 dependant on bc no mater what flow you push through it.. the more you flow through the reactor the bigger the bubbles get until it reaches its max and then just fills up.. I think the splashing of water inside the reactor when you shut of the co2 somehow causes it to dilute with o2





Im thinking to bouy reactor from my country...Hope will not be a mystake...Its the Typ 7-2  max outflow 3000l/h and should disolve all co2..the reaktor have it valve as well to protectect against leaking and as well air valve if there will be some air..But what i hear there is not are ..So hope ..but sera going back..the noise is awefull and like you said it takes at least 2 hours to be back filled up with water after co2 is shut of.  here is the link for the reactor from czech republic.  https://www.profiplants.cz/sk/produkt/profiplants-co2-reaktor-typ-2-velikost-7#productDescription


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## obsessed (30 Mar 2019)

60 gallons is quite allot.. I'm no expert but to get co2 to dissolve at high ppms in that amount of water.. no easy task.. I don't think there's a co2 reactor you can buy off the shelf that's worth its job.. if there is please let me know. I would buy 2.. in saying that you could and most probably will need 2 of what ever you decide..


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## Zeus. (30 Mar 2019)

obsessed said:


> I don't think there's a co2 reactor you can buy off the shelf that's worth its job.. if there is please let me know. I would buy 2



Green Aqua mange it on there tanks and they look amazing even better in in  front of the tank than in any pic or vid IMO

There is an APS EF2 works a treat for me on my 100 Gallon. Yes I do have a duel CO2 injection system with a PLC which controls the injection rate. But I can see no reason why it wouldn't work without all the fancy electronics I have. But the electronics do enable me to get to my target pH in about 30mins its over a 1.5pH drop as well. If I take a sample of the tank water and leave it out for 24hrs its more like a 2.0pH drop. Plus its stable within 0.1pH from lights on till CO2 off



obsessed said:


> the build up in the reactor is mixed co2 and O2..



Think it will be mainly CO2 can see there being much O2 in the reactor after all we are injecting CO2 and not O2.

Mine fills up with a big bubble but do have a high injection rate 


but it does work, if I turn the injection rate down I dont get the pH drop, think it might have something to do with the pressure on the big bubble -but thats just a stab in the dark, I do use 6.5Kg of CO2 a month.


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## rebel (31 Mar 2019)

Some have had success with using the diffuser before the reactor. Try it if you can.


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## obsessed (31 Mar 2019)

I agree about the pressure.. when the co2 switches off my ph rise is quite slow.. realistic ph drops are 2.0 more or less from degassed water. I could get there with the sera reactors but they were more than half  filled with said gas pocket so i had to leave the pumps on a timer and they would switch off after or until the pocket was replaced with water.. 5 hours after lights off which is stupid.. they were just were big diffusers in the end. anyway  that's why I had to constantly monitor the ph after lights off just to see what co2 was going in. it took around 90 mins for my tank water to reach normal night time ph.. the other thing is the amount of hardwear we use to try not too have bubbles when again realistically it has to be more efficient to have 2 in tank diffusers with decent flow pushing co2 around.. I didn't want too many things in tank so went the sump route and planed the reactor from the start but looking at it now allot of equipment for aesthetics I'm not sure its worth it.. I even purchased the needle rotors to aid in the less bubble war.. still experimenting with it.. I think I will build a reactor..


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## Stefan34 (31 Mar 2019)

Thanks guys!
I decide to post the reactor back to the seller as is it still under warranty 60 days return...I spoke with the czech republic company what actualy making the reactors for big aquariums and this reactor from https://www.profiplants.cz/sk/produkt/profiplants-co2-reaktor-typ-2-velikost-7 shold be inaf for my fish tank...So lets hope!...


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## Petar Chernaev (1 Apr 2019)

I would also like to report on having issues with the Sera 1000 as discussed here (https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/drop-checker-blue.57080/#post-556564) 

I am pushing in so much CO2, that a pocket of gas forms in it and the impellers stop spinning. At lower CO2 rate the drop checker remains blue. I have spent the last few days trying to find some sort of middle solution but havent. Either good CO2 for four-five hours and then then a pocket of gas, or a low CO2 and bluish drop cheker. 

A major possibility is that the filter does not have enough capacity and the flow in the CO2 reactor must be stronger to allow for better dissolution. The small bubbles would spin more vigorously. So I am upgrading from JBL 702 to the JBL 902. 

A suggested solution to use an inline diffusor before the reactor seems tempting. What do you thing of such a solution?


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## obsessed (2 Apr 2019)

Petar Chernaev said:


> A suggested solution to use an inline diffusor before the reactor seems tempting. What do you thing of such a solution?


I think I may try this. it has been done but I cannot find any data on it. 
the APS EF2 works as well as the sera 1000. if you get any build up its not really working as a reactor. not being rude but sticking some tube inside another tube to cause a ventura is not the answer. I could just drill the top of the sera 1000 and fix a release valve but again why should I. sera told me it was good for my application and it wasent. so i could therfore go buy aquamedic 1000 reactor it has a release valve already because aquamedic at least have come to the conclusion and actually tested it but there's gas build up. 
I tried 400 lph 600 lph 1000lph and 1200lph pumps on the sera 1000.
the 600 lph was not enough and after 1000lph is was the same size pocket.
to be onyist like I said I could get the ph drop it's the gas pocket that bothered me and obviously bothers everybody else because I have read and read about all these infomos reactors on the Web and they all have to make some kind of ventura. there has to be a better way. what I'm writing i mean respectfully as it's helped me allot to understand about co2 delivery and i take my hat off for all that try to have bubbless tanks and post there results in forums. my tanks are so much calmer and seem much more peaceful without bubbles. marine tanks is the way forward I think. they have many different types of reactors. it could also be about cost. it's an expensive hobby to start up in general and then we have matinance cost so i get that but I have spent /wasted money anyway and countless hours trying to to achieve it seems the impossible. look I want to dissolve all co2 so my tank water is stable without bubbles. obviously no left over gas or pockets it's not allot to ask. I like the APS EF2 idea. 6kg of gas a month is a grazy amount. I think it just needs something to make it more efficient. I'm now using so much less co2 with the qanvee inline diffuser but back to bubbles. The bubble war continues. I'm sure this has been done to death. I've read post from way back and I think it's just going in circles.


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## Zeus. (2 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> if you get any build up its not really working as a reactor



Yes and No - yes as tank is CO2 bubble free



obsessed said:


> not being rude but sticking some tube inside another tube to cause a ventura is not the answer.



No offence taken  It good to discuss the issue. I wouldn't say a ventri isnt the answer, rather my attempted with the ventri at getting a better CO2 uptake by using it it don't work. The test had limited parameters like internal pressure and flow rates, I have had the lids pop of the APF EF2 when refilling the tank after a WC as the tanks refill point is close to the reactors ( marked as X on pic)




So I am reluctant to increased the working pressure of the reactors in case lids pop open and leak. @foxfish did have great success with his reactors which I think was down to the swirling effect he had plus the increase working pressure inside the reactors. These ASP EF2  wound handle the pressure needed IMO 



obsessed said:


> 6kg of gas a month is a grazy amount



Yes and no again - did read somewhere when using CO2 you need to imagine its free, only then will you use the CO2 to its full potential  

I did a little survey on CO2 used *CO2 used Database**,* nothing scientific OFC but I found it helped even with the limited data but no firm conclusions can be drawn from it. But @ceg4048 was the highest CO2 user per litre and he does happen to be the guru on all things CO2 also. The one thing the data base lacked is the users tank [CO2] once target pH was reached.

The good thing about the APS EF2 when used as a reactor is you cant see the big bubble so it doesn't bother you as much. I would like to get rid of it myself, but if the pH profile is good and you hitting your pH target what does it matter is theres a big bubble in the reactor  

I think the answer lies in @foxfish model, but I dont think is would be as quiet as my CO2 reactors!


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## obsessed (2 Apr 2019)

Zeus. said:


> Yes and no again - did read somewhere when using CO2 you need to imagine its free, only then will you use the CO2 to its full potential


 haha
I do this with allot things.
The gas pocket only bothers me because I have to leave 2 pumps on for 5 hours after co2 switches off for the reactors to fill back up and ready for the next morning plus the wasted co2 that's it really and the clutter in my sump. Im really new to the planted tank hobby so i am just trying a few things out. I first thought I had a leak or maybe I set it up wrong in my nievaty I new no better until I read about allot of issues in regards the gas pocket.. so to be far in my haste I went and bought the 2 sera 1000 reactors with there own pumps(1 for each tank). another bubble counter to feed each reactor and now the qanvee defuser. the sump idea from the start for me was to share gas injection into the return pump chamber via 1 sera 500 reactor. i could only drop 1  tank - 0.5 ph and the other -0.4 ph. regarding the pressure that's my 1 concern it may blow a pipe and water back siphons or alike. maybe I'm trying to be to efficient with injection rates and power. also mate your tanks prove your ph drops. so all is working well. I believe it's 1 of the hardest ferterlizers to accomplish in most tanks and each tank has so many different parameters and flow rates amongst other differences. I'm looking into the marine side of things as they spend allot more money on research and development. who knows they may have a calcium reactor for example that might just fit our needs. without experimenting we would still be using a bell.


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## Citrix (17 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> I just removed 2 of these.. I had them set up with independent loop( own pump) 1000 lph.. for each 1.. the gas build up in the reactor is because they cannot handle the amount of co2 your pushing through it.. the build up in the reactor is mixed co2 and O2..  as soon as you shut off the co2 the the ph will slowly rise even with half of the reactor seemingly full of co2.. it can't be.. the co2 and o2 that's trapped can take 5 or 6 hour to empty out of the sera 1000 and if you have constant ph meter you can confirm this.. don't believe the manufacturer.. it can handle 5 or 6 dependant on bc no mater what flow you push through it.. the more you flow through the reactor the bigger the bubbles get until it reaches its max and then just fills up.. I think the splashing of water inside the reactor when you shut of the co2 somehow causes it to dilute with o2



I totally agree with you, but this issue is with all reactors, o2 and co2 buble builds up.
Even there was posting by Tom Barr where he made analysis that in reactor is ony undisolved co2, but form my checking i see diferently, to disolve that buble it takes long time - 8 hours after co2 shuts off.
Also this buble gets bigger if we increase littning, so plants start pearling more, then water gets more o2 saturated and bigger bubble builds up.
But it does nto matter what type of reactor is used rex griig or cerges(like this sera), if you pump a bit more co2 thant it can handle, then u will have buble.

As solution you can try this venturi loop, but i just removed it after first 30 min of trying, it makes terible noise...


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## Citrix (17 Apr 2019)

Zeus. said:


> Green Aqua mange it on there tanks and they look amazing even better in in  front of the tank than in any pic or vid IMO
> 
> There is an APS EF2 works a treat for me on my 100 Gallon. Yes I do have a duel CO2 injection system with a PLC which controls the injection rate. But I can see no reason why it wouldn't work without all the fancy electronics I have. But the electronics do enable me to get to my target pH in about 30mins its over a 1.5pH drop as well. If I take a sample of the tank water and leave it out for 24hrs its more like a 2.0pH drop. Plus its stable within 0.1pH from lights on till CO2 off
> 
> ...




That is crazy amount. I have a bit bigger tank (550l) but for me 6liter(4.2kg) co2 last for 4-5 months. I use 2 internal mini reactors (rex grigg style) powered by aquael 400l/h pump each. I run about 4BPS ( ista buble checker) to each reator.


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## Citrix (17 Apr 2019)

obsessed said:


> haha
> I do this with allot things.
> The gas pocket only bothers me because I have to leave 2 pumps on for 5 hours after co2 switches off for the reactors to fill back up and ready for the next morning plus the wasted co2 that's it really and the clutter in my sump. Im really new to the planted tank hobby so i am just trying a few things out. I first thought I had a leak or maybe I set it up wrong in my nievaty I new no better until I read about allot of issues in regards the gas pocket.. so to be far in my haste I went and bought the 2 sera 1000 reactors with there own pumps(1 for each tank). another bubble counter to feed each reactor and now the qanvee defuser. the sump idea from the start for me was to share gas injection into the return pump chamber via 1 sera 500 reactor. i could only drop 1  tank - 0.5 ph and the other -0.4 ph. regarding the pressure that's my 1 concern it may blow a pipe and water back siphons or alike. maybe I'm trying to be to efficient with injection rates and power. also mate your tanks prove your ph drops. so all is working well. I believe it's 1 of the hardest ferterlizers to accomplish in most tanks and each tank has so many different parameters and flow rates amongst other differences. I'm looking into the marine side of things as they spend allot more money on research and development. who knows they may have a calcium reactor for example that might just fit our needs. without experimenting we would still be using a bell.


Because of that buble i leave reactor's pumps runing 24/7   After ton of tryings and readings it is still not clear what that bubble consist of but it seems it is definatelly o2+co2. But again my pumps are only 400 l/h each. Maybe adding 600-700l/h pump and a bit bigger chamber (from 1l to 1.5l coke bottle ) for mixing gas,would solve issue. By the way try to use RO water it will help. At least for me did. I am using pure RO water, in tank there is about 120kg of seiryu rocks, so even with pure RO tds is not going lower than 160-170.


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## Zeus. (17 Apr 2019)

Citrix said:


> After ton of tryings and readings it is still not clear what that bubble consist of but it seems it is definatelly o2+co2.



How did you come to that conclusion ?
The only gas your pumping in is CO2, so where is the O2 coming from in the reactor. Its been a while since I did physics but I cant think of any laws that cover it


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## Citrix (18 Apr 2019)

Zeus. said:


> How did you come to that conclusion ?
> The only gas your pumping in is CO2, so where is the O2 coming from in the reactor. Its been a while since I did physics but I cant think of any laws that cover it


Well, bubble grows up bigger in the end of photoperiod even co2 was shut off allready (like 3 hours ago)


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