# Wild caught or captive bred? what is your preference?



## Angus (11 Mar 2018)

As per title, just curious really, my general preference is captive bred for a number of reasons, but some species are only available wild caught so leaves you a bit limited as to choice, 

What about you guys?

Cheers, Gus.


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## Smells Fishy (11 Mar 2018)

Obviously captive bred fish is the way forward. Currently with what's happening to the seas and reefs I think it's so wrong to plunder at will. In terms of what's worse freshwater or marine it has to be marine. A lot of freshwater fish might live in a stream or a river but they probably explore little of it for fear of being eaten or swimming into a unknown fishes territory. So it's more acceptable to house them in an aquarium compared to a porcupine puffer that naturally has a whole reef and the sea to explore. We can't recreate that. I think the minimum tank size for a porcupine a something like 450L. It should be double that. It's very prejudice of me but freshwater wild caught fish doesn't bother me that much since it doesn't have as greater a knock on effect like collections from the ocean do.


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## tam (11 Mar 2018)

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Conservation wise, some of the controlled catching and maintaining the eco system seems like it might be better than alternatives like palm oil farming. And some of the captive farming doesn't always seem to pay as much attention to genetics and welfare as it should. I wish it was easier to tell where fish came from and what the best options where.


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## Angus (11 Mar 2018)

One thing i do hope becomes more common is better tracking and more information about where your fish comes from, right now very few places give propper information on the fish you are buying, some suppliers do clearly label wild from captive bred, and most shops i've been in are happy to answer on request but don't advertise what the fish is openly, same with suppliers they just give stock lists with little indication as to the heritage of the fish, it seems like there is better information on where your haddock fillet came from than the live fish sometimes.


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## sciencefiction (11 Mar 2018)

From a purely fish-keeper perspective, I far prefer either wild caught fish or fish that have been captive bred only recently. They're far more robust and healthy fish than those that have been bred on a massive scale over the last few decades. From livebearers to shrimp, to discus, to cichlids etc.. breeders have turned all captive bred creatures into weak, sensitive, prone to diseases, not worth keeping, poor version of their wild cousins fish...


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## Angus (11 Mar 2018)

Really appreciate you all taking the time to post and voice your opinions.


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## Macman6 (11 Mar 2018)

There are many great conservation projects such as project piaba which help ensure a sustainable population of wild caught fish, as well as maintaining habitat for them and other animals, and I believe for our hobby to survive we all need to be as environmentally aware as we can be. Therefore For me preferably if I could guarantee that my fish have come from such a population I would always go wild caught as I like to appreciate fish as nature intends. Farm bred fish are a sad case, especially when bred for strange shapes like balloon in my opinion. 


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## Furgan (12 Mar 2018)

I have recently added 30 wild green neon tetras to my planted tank. I fell in love with them after seeing them for the 1st time 6 months ago. I heard that they are difficult to breed and buy commercial green neons and also the wild are said to be a lot heathier.

But they do look amazing


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## Edvet (12 Mar 2018)

Indeed . Google Project Piaba


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## BubblingUnder (12 Mar 2018)

I think it depends:

For the most popular tropical fish captive bred is the way to go as wild stocks could probably not sustain heavy commercial pressure plus it gives an income to the breeder & cheaper fish so everybody wins.

For less popular & rarer fish a combination of wild & captive bred is a more sensible approach as it gives an incentive/income for the locals to preserve wild stocks & the environment they live in while providing the hobby breeder with the genetic stock to captive breed.

Another slightly different example are Zebra Pleco's which can no longer be import from the wild but breeders have taken the challenge (thanks to high prices) & are breeding them on a large scale so the price has fallen from several hundred pounds to £85 & will fall further. They are threatened by dam building in their natural habitat but their future has been secured by the aquatic hobby.


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## Angus (12 Mar 2018)

Loving the opinions guys you are all raising some great points.

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## castle (12 Mar 2018)

Depends most niche fish - badics/apistos/gouramis, F1 preferred, wild next best - rarely will I just buy some random fish from the shop. I've found once I find fish I like, they tend to stick around for _years.  _I also make a solid effort to breed the fish I keep, and I'm moderately successful - so I'd like the best lines/wild I can get.


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## mort (12 Mar 2018)

Smells Fishy said:


> Obviously captive bred fish is the way forward. Currently with what's happening to the seas and reefs I think it's so wrong to plunder at will. In terms of what's worse freshwater or marine it has to be marine. A lot of freshwater fish might live in a stream or a river but they probably explore little of it for fear of being eaten or swimming into a unknown fishes territory. So it's more acceptable to house them in an aquarium compared to a porcupine puffer that naturally has a whole reef and the sea to explore. We can't recreate that. I think the minimum tank size for a porcupine a something like 450L. It should be double that. It's very prejudice of me but freshwater wild caught fish doesn't bother me that much since it doesn't have as greater a knock on effect like collections from the ocean do.



As a more marine based keeper I'd just like to add a reply. The seas aren't plundered, well not for aquarium fish. All fish removed are controlled by quotas and unlike in the freshwater hobby, threatened species are not touched. There has not been a species (apart from possibly the bangaii cardinal which is nearly always captive bred now) threatened by the aquarium trade in the wild (and that species is still allowed by cities) but I can think of a few in freshwater such as the red tail shark or denison barb.
Freshwater fish explore just as much of the water as marine species if you compare like for like. A porcupine puffer explores a large territory but so does the mbu puffer. You have more cryptic species in rivers but you find these as well on the reef, like damsels (perhaps the cichlids of the sea) who live by one coral head their whole life after they have settled on the reef.
Predators live in both areas so I don't see a difference there to be honest nor do I see a difference with fish in unsuitable tanks, for your porcupine puffer I could suggest a giant gourami, Oscar or dozens of other species.

You could argue that rivers are more of a problem than seas for pollution or over harvesting.  The marine hobby is actually very well managed for the most part. The Hawaiian fishery is one of the best understood and the science has show that fish populations have been improving due to their management. Unfortunately human politics has got in the way and aquarium collection was recently banned, after the science was ignore. However collection for food is still allowed even though the aquarium collection was negligible in comparison.
Fuji also imposed a ban of the collection of corals and invertebrates from their waters at Christmas but after the science was presented showing the beneficial work the aquarium trade was having, rebuilding reefs and conserving these areas, they reversed the ban and support the main company Walt Smith.
It has also been shown that by harvesting wild animals you preserve the area by giving it value. For a reef, if you stop collection there is no ongoing economic value but keep collecting and you won't see dynamite fishing or removal of live rock for house or road building.

Marine fish aquaculture is still a pretty small part of the industry. I would always advocate the support of it if possible but it's an expensive and high energy alternative. I've bred quite a few marine species and it's very time intensive, energy intensive and expensive. Unfortunately there also seems to be a move towards the guppification of marines for profit. We see this with clownfish where longfin (not great for a species who aren't the best swimmers to begin with that come from a very high flow environment) or stubby versions have been bred. I know people love variations but their are always tradeoffs.

I try to buy captive bred whenever possible but sometimes breeders standards aren't particularly high and you run into deformed fish. I've lost count of the number of fish with one eye, lost or twisted pectorals or jaw abnormalities. Some of these might make a fish more interesting, like nemo's little fin, but often at the detriment to health.
Captive fish are often bolder, have less disease issues (or at least simpler diseases to treat) and are used to aquarium life. That makes things simpler for us and shouldn't be overlooked.


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## Gill (12 Mar 2018)

Captive whenever possible. With the huge growth in breeding facilities in the far east and south america, it has improved the availability of fish in todays market. I think that the education programs that have been setup, allowing people to start breeding on a mass scale is a very good step forward in regards to the benefit to both nature and people. As Younger generations become involved in the husbandry, and are able to see the growth potential themselves. 
I think Youtube has played a big role in allowing farms/projects to showcase what they are doing now, and giving people an insight into what is involved in order to breed fish and shrimp etc.


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## roadmaster (12 Mar 2018)

I tend to keep fishes that can thrive in the water I can most easily reproduce (tap) .
My water is fairly hard so I keep fishes that thrive in more alkaline condition's.
I have in the past created softer condition's/water, but it was/is more of a pain than I care for in my senior year's.
Only wild caught species I collect now days, are bait fish from local streams or lakes to entice larger fishes to bite.


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