# Sump layout advice



## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

I dont think I am getting the best from my sump and the way I have it set up so looking to change it around to get the max out of it.

This is for a freshwater tank. and the sump is 48"x15"18"

This is what I have come up with for my future set up of my sump.


Hoping someone out there can point me in the the right direction on how to get the max out of my sump


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## foxfish (27 Apr 2013)

I dont understand you problem, you probably have loads more biological filtration than you need?


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## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

Yes that what I thought looking at it now  but dont know what to do as I think I need more something but what I do not know.

If this was your sump how would you set it up chamber by chamber ?


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## foxfish (27 Apr 2013)

I just have one chamber full of bioballs & a sponge prefilter!
My bio balls are in a mesh bag & i take the bag out every week during water change & dunk it in my big water change bucket to rinse the balls = simple & clean.


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

Hi how big is your tank your running the sump on,and is the sump glass or acrylic..


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## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

The sump is glass and the tank is 6x2x3


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

Will you be having many fish in it..


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## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

Tank is already stocked


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

Have you got a heavy fish load,the reason im asking is,are you familular with tracking,through a filter,as you said you want the best performance out of the sump,the way you have it now probably only 10% of the media will get used.. and most of the water will be dead space...at the moment you have upward flow runing through the filter which creates tracking,to get maximum you need to have horizontal flow (imagine a river)this is an easy fix..


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## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

I would say I have a heavy load in my tank

can you explain on what I need to do please


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## weasel (27 Apr 2013)

I shall do some drawings for you to have a look at and put a video on to explain the tracking.basically water wants to take the easiest path out, you need to manipulate the water for more contact time in the media, if you can afford to then biohome(An upgraded sinthered glass) is the best biological media you will find...and very reasonable price of £12 a kilo..
Alfragrog is cheaper i know but the surface area is very poor and its heavy..If you cant afford to no worries we will work with what we have..give us a chance to do some drawings and i'll get back to you..


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## Katfish (27 Apr 2013)

ok no problem and thank you


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## weasel (28 Apr 2013)

Hi question for you are you using C02 in the tank...


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## Alastair (28 Apr 2013)

Just out of curiosity where is it suggested that alfa grog is a very poor media? I know plenty of people including myself who use it to good effect. 
Not that im questioning the use of biohome as I know its good stuff.


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## weasel (28 Apr 2013)

Specific Surface Area (SSA) of Common Biological Filter Media

Theres a quick link but just type in google specific surface area filter media..biohome is probably 100 times greater..


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## Alastair (28 Apr 2013)

I cant find alfa grog on there. Interesting link though Thanks weasel.


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## dw1305 (29 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> Theres a quick link but just type in google specific surface area filter media..biohome is probably 100 times greater..


You have to be a little bit careful with these figures, they are "true", but largely irrelevant in use, and media like Bioballs and Alfagrog work just as well in practice.

Have a look at this thread: <Alfagrog for reducing Nitrates? | UK Aquatic Plant Society>.

cheers Darrel


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## weasel (29 Apr 2013)

Yes the figure is a bit misleading. This is all depending on the pre filter of course,if the pre filter is removing all of the waste barring the fines stopping blockages in the bio side.. Then this figure will be high but if the biomedia becomes clogged causing tracking then its erelavent..until i made this statement i didnt realize there were two types of alfragrog i was under the impression that there was only E40...
Thanks for the links i shall take a look..


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## dw1305 (29 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> Then this figure will be high but if the biomedia becomes clogged causing tracking then its erelavent


Both tracking and clogging are the real issues, but for the same reason, they mean that the majority of media is oxygen starved and not contributing to filtration. I just half fill any canister filters with ceramic rings, and put a PPI10 or PPI20 sponge prefilter on. This is because I want flow speed through the media to be quick, high flow speeds mean more oxygen reaching the filter bacteria and that means more biological filtration. 

This is also one advantage wet & dry trickle filters have over other filters, if the power goes off the media remains damp and oxygenated, preserving the filter bacteria. In a canister filter if the power goes off the media rapidly utilises all the available oxygen from the water in the filter.

cheers Darrel


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## weasel (29 Apr 2013)

This might interest you ,a couple of videos showing the difference with and without air..showing clearly the amount of media used..Im more interested with media contact time than high flow through the media increasing the the time the bacteria are incontact with the ammonia and perticularly nitrites..As you know the nitrosonomas are quicker to multiply than the nitrobacter so a fast turnover can reduce the amount nitobacter recieves as the nitrosonomas are quicker to take it..in my koi pond i always had some reading of nitrites until i reduced the flow through the filter using a filter like in the videos solved this and now i can feed as much as i like and never get any ammonia or nitrite readings..The nitrate reading rocketed up with proved to me this filter works to its max..
the filter in the video is whats on my planted tank,the only problem i have with it, is i need loads of co2 ..


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## dw1305 (29 Apr 2013)

Hi all,


weasel said:


> Im more interested with media contact time than high flow through the media increasing the the time the bacteria are incontact with the ammonia and perticularly nitrites..As you know the nitrosonomas are quicker to multiply than the nitrobacter so a fast turnover can reduce the amount nitobacter recieves as the nitrosonomas are quicker to take it..in my koi pond i always had some reading of nitrites until i reduced the flow through the filter using a filter like in the videos solved this and now i can feed as much as i like and never get any ammonia or nitrite readings..The nitrate reading rocketed up with proved to me this filter works to its max..


All systems are different, but the thing for us is that we can ignore nitrate (NO3) because the plants convert it in to plant matter. The problem with slowing the flow speed down is that it is really difficult to hit the "sweet spot" where you have enough oxygen to convert NH3 - NO2 - NO3, (particularly you also want other areas which are anoxic where the out-gassing of NO3 to N2 gas occurs).The problem is that if flow speed drops low enough NH3 starts passing straight through the filter, with potentially disastrous results. Having a lot of oxygen is safer.

Have you seen Ed's Koi threads? <My new pond | UK Aquatic Plant Society>  & <My New Filter and Pond - Lots of pictures | UK Aquatic Plant Society>

cheers Darrel


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## weasel (29 Apr 2013)

Just had a look at the links,Very nice looking water feature..cant help wondering what was introduced to the pond when the waterfall got turned back on after the winter though...
The new pond i class a proper koi pond but much prefare the look of the old pond...


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