# Dosing EI, TDS and Shrimp



## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Hi everyone,
Just a quick question perhaps you can help me with. When keeping shrimp in a low tech planted tank that I dose EI in how do I attack water changes? 

I'm new to shrimp and have read that when doing weekly water changes I should try and match the current TDS of the tank water with the new top up water. However, if over the course of the week the TDS has increased significantly wont I end up in an endless cycle where I constantly increase the TDS over time? 

e.g Week 1 the tank water is 150TDS so I match it with 150TDS water. Week 2 TDS has increase (through dosing etc)  to 200 so I match with 200 TDS water and so and and so on.

...or should I just be trying to get the TDS back down to its original figure every time. Urg....this reads appallingly but hopefully someone knows what the hell im on about!

Cheers!


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

sonicninja said:


> Hi everyone,
> Just a quick question perhaps you can help me with. When keeping shrimp in a low tech planted tank that I dose EI in how do I attack water changes?
> 
> I'm new to shrimp and have read that when doing weekly water changes I should try and match the current TDS of the tank water with the new top up water. However, if over the course of the week the TDS has increased significantly wont I end up in an endless cycle where I constantly increase the TDS over time?
> ...


Hey,

I know exactly what your on about here as I was in the same boat at one point.

What sort of shrimp with you be keeping?

Just to give you an idea I have both red cherrys and crystal reds. Now I used to be so anal about Tds as I also dose the ei method. Red cherries will be fine in most tds and crystal reds prefer no more than 200 tds. 

Now in both cases my tds started around 100 and like yourself it rises over the week to around 200. I then did a water change with straight ro water which brought it down to 100 again Which was perfect. Now I then did a test on weather crystal reds could live above 200. The simple answer is yes. My tds currently is around 400 and I reset each week with tap water to bring it down to 300/350. Now people may say they don't thrive above 200 Tds bit IMO they can as mine breed all the time.

Dont worry to much about TDS, fish/invertebrates will adapt to your water.

Hope this helps

Jamie 

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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Well that's what I thought but I had a couple of deaths (and some other distressing behavior) from my RCS when I did a small water change recently of about 20%. I've now bought a TDS meter which should arrive tomorrow so maybe its just a case of aiming for a particular TDS but not obsessing about it. Do you drip feed your water change or just dump it in?


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

So red cherries will adapt to most water parameters. Very easy to keep. This could be another issue in the tank.

How did you introduce the shrimp?

I used to take just shy of 50% out and topped up with straight ro. I just poured it in  

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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

Whats your other water parameters? 

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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Planted Bows said:


> Whats your other water parameters?
> 
> Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk


absolutely no idea. I stopped using them ages ago to be honest.  The shrimp are absolutely fine during the week and don't react strangely but within seconds of adding the new water (between 20 & 50 %) they're flexing their bodies and being very skittish. Ive had two deaths straight after water changes (mind I only had 5 shrimp to start off with). Temp of the water is matched and I use prime mixed with the water in a clean bucket. These are fire red cherry shrimp so Im not sure if this strain is more sensitive or susceptible to shock etc...


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

sonicninja said:


> absolutely no idea. I stopped using them ages ago to be honest.  The shrimp are absolutely fine during the week and don't react strangely but within seconds of adding the new water (between 20 & 50 %) they're flexing their bodies and being very skittish. Ive had two deaths straight after water changes (mind I only had 5 shrimp to start off with). Temp of the water is matched and I use prime mixed with the water in a clean bucket. These are fire red cherry shrimp so Im not sure if this strain is more sensitive or susceptible to shock etc...


That does sound odd. I was going to say one main issue with shrimp is depending on water parameters they can struggle to shread there shell however in this case it's straight from a water change.

That tells me it's most likely your water. Are you using straight ro? Or tap water? 

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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

Just found this 




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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Im using just tap currently.


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

So first thing is to check your water parameters in your area and can easy be found by your water supplier. This will then tell us if there are things in your area water that these guys don't like.



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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Cant quite read the text on that image, it me or the resolution?


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

Yeah just noticed that lol! 

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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Ive attached a water report. I feel like Erin Brockovich!


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

sonicninja said:


> Ive attached a water report. I feel like Erin Brockovich!


Your water is really hard! That could be the reason for the behaviour. What I'd say to do is start using ro for a month or 2 and then start switching back to tap water gradually. Your shrimp may have come from a tank that has softer water to yours hence why they are behaving in that way.

Once you've converted back to tap water the shrimp should have acclimated to your water hardness etc.

For example

Month 1 do 50% water changes with just straight ro then in month 2 do the same water change but gradually add your tap water to it so the ratio then converts back to tap water if that makes sense 

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## dw1305 (11 Oct 2017)

Hi all, 





sonicninja said:


> Ive attached a water report.


You have *very hard* water, probably from a chalk aquifer. Red cherry shrimp like hard water, so that is an advantage.

I would just go for smaller volume, more regular water changes. In the report it says 





> ......To make sure the quality of the drinking water we supply remains excellent, we sometimes need to carry out work to ensure we continue to meet the legal limits specified in the Water Supply (Water Quality) Regulations 2016 (as amended). This work is known as a Programme of Work. Our Regulator, the Drinking Water Inspectorate, closely monitors the progress of this work and will formally sign it off when it is completed. The table below shows what we are doing in the Haverhill PWSZ:
> 
> Parameter: Metaldehyde and total pesticides -
> 
> Programme of Work: Blending


Because of where you live (the boundary of Suffolk, Essex and Cambridge) you will have some agricultural pollutants in your water, including substances like neonicotonoid insecticides (and the metaldehyde mentioned).

Recent research suggests that neonicotinoid insecticides are toxic to aquatic invertebrates at much lower levels than was originally thought. They are very widely used on arable crops (particularly on Oil Seed Rape).

cheers Darrel


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

I wish I was good with word like this lol

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## dw1305 (11 Oct 2017)

Hi all, 





Planted Bows said:


> Your water is really hard! That could be the reason for the behaviour. What I'd say to do is start using ro for a month or 2 and then start switching back to tap water gradually. Your shrimp may have come from a tank that has softer water to yours hence why they are behaving in that way.


 That is a thought, I've only ever had the shrimps in soft (rain-water) or hard (~17dGH) water, I've never swapped them about.

cheers Darrel


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## sonicninja (11 Oct 2017)

Is it possible the aqua soil I’m using lowers my tank water hardness and then when I put in tap water it’s shocking the shrimp?


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## Planted Bows (11 Oct 2017)

sonicninja said:


> Is it possible the aqua soil I’m using lowers my tank water hardness and then when I put in tap water it’s shocking the shrimp?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That is a strong possibility  

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## dw1305 (11 Oct 2017)

Hi all, 





sonicninja said:


> Is it possible the aqua soil I’m using lowers my tank water hardness and then when I put in tap water it’s shocking the shrimp?


It could be, in which case the aqua soil will only be an "active substrate" for a short time period after you've added it to the tank. 

This is because all the ion exchange sites, that were initially filled with H+ ions, will be rapidly exchanged for Ca++ ions in solution (your tank water). 

This will happen quickly because your water is very hard, meaning that you have a large number of Ca++ (and HCO3-) ions in solution (and a large buffer of CO3 ions that will go into solution as 2HCO3-), and ion exchange is dependent upon both ion concentration and valency.    

cheers Darrel


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## kadoxu (11 Oct 2017)

When you do water changes, how much water do you change? Like Darrel said previously, smaller more frequent water changes are better for shrimp. 
Do you check the temperature of water you're putting in the tank?


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## sonicninja (12 Oct 2017)

The soil has been in there for 4+months now so has probably done all it’s going to do in that case. 
I do 30-50% which I got into the habit of doing when it was a high tech planted tank in its previous guise. I always check the temperature and match it.
I got my TDS pen today and my tap water is around 450! 
I think I’ll start using RO so I can manage the water chemistry a bit more. What’s the optimal TDS I should be aiming for with shrimp? 200ish? 


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