# Aqua One AR-850



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

Hi.
I have been keeping tropical fish for about 5 years but never really had any joy with keeping plants in the tank.  Now my wife and I are getting more interested in it and are learning all about the aspects and trying to build up a planted tank. Here is what the tank did look like many years ago:






And also:





As you can see the plants come and go but never seemed to last long.

After years it ended up looking like this with just one plant surviving the test of time:





Recently I bought a new tank (another journal) and my wife got more interested in the old tank.  We added a few plants and I put in a coupld of plastic ones I had knocking about:





Then we moved the tank into our living room and wanted to have it as a room feature so more work was required.....


----------



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

So the tank was in its new location and filled back up with water and a few more plants added along with a Krib house:





Still pretty boring and the wife loves the look or properly planted tanks so I started doing my research.  Some more wood was added at first and I bought some TNC Fetiliser and decided we would need Co2 if we were to have a properly planted tank.





We visited our LFS and bought a Co2 System that was said to be suitable for up to 150 litres.  Fitted this and added some more plants and the tank currently looks like this:


----------



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

Since planting these we have been increasing the Co2 to get the supplied indicator to turn from Blue to Green.  This has led me to do some more research and have decided I have gone about things the wrong way and should change a few things.

Firstly the 95 gram bottle of Co2 are not going to last long at all and at £13 a pop will cost a fortune in the long run.  Secondly there is no solenoid with my system so the Co2 runs 24 hours a day wasting even more money and Thirdly my trickle filter system seems to spray air bubbles all over tha tank which will be working against the added Co2.





Basically my plan now is to remove the trickle system and install a Eheim Classic 600 external filter I have just ordered and upgrade the Co2 system to a 2Kg FE with two gauge regulator and solenoid.
I was hoping to use the same tubing and 3 in 1 bubble counter/check valve/diffuser but not sure if this is wise given the potential of a 2kg system and if I should upgrade the lot with new tubing, bubble counter, check valve and glass diffuser and then sell the original Flora-Glow Nano 150 kit on complete.

So any suggestions or advice on where I go from here would be great.
Thanks.


----------



## Pedro Rosa (16 Mar 2013)

Hi there,

You're going in the right direction 
Are you using fertiliser also? (sorry if i missed that). Only CO2 is not enough and you even need more fertilisation.
Plastic plants are not right for your tank  Real plants need more attention but its a price that you'll like to pay when finally you get the right track to manage all fertilisation and CO2.

Good luck,
Pedro.


----------



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

I have TNC Lite and Seachem Flourish at the moment.  I will use the Flourish in the smaller planted tank with a few plants and Co1 and the TNC Lite in my bigger tank but with only a few plants.
Thanks for the positive comments and I have no plastic plants at all now.


----------



## Ian Holdich (16 Mar 2013)

Glad you're heading in the right direction, and creating not only something that the mrs appreciates, but a better home for the fish. 

Whilst using c02 you're better airing on the side of caution and getting some tnc complete. You also have a plant in there that's not 100% aquatic. The fern is a Selaginella wildenowii, they tend to be marsh plants.


----------



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

I bought the TNC Lite before I even thought about Co2 so will just use that in my other non Co2 tank (which I will start a journal for shortly) and use the Flourish in this tank.
My Mrs likes those ferns (which is why she bought two of them).  Should I get her to take them back to the shop whilst they are still alive (only a week old) and explain what you have said and try and exchange them for something else?  Is there any other Fern that is similar that will grow?
Thanks.


----------



## Ian Holdich (16 Mar 2013)

The closest plant to the fern is either bolbitis (which you may not find in your lfs) or hygrophila difformis. 

Flourish is a good fert, however it doesn't contain n and p, which the plants need in abundance when your injecting c02. Also remember to keep on top of your water changes whilst injecting c02.


----------



## John S (16 Mar 2013)

I went through similar things with my AR850. You won't regret getting a bigger CO2 system and switching to an external filter. I managed to fiy my external withoutr any mods to the hood which was also a bonus.


----------



## Martin cape (16 Mar 2013)

Interesting journal pal. 

Ill be honest I don't know anything about ferns. But I would be inclined to swap them for something more suitable. My opinion judging by the marsh plant reference. 

Have a look at some of the sponsors of the forum, really good plants from Aqua Essentials, gives a clear bit of info too. 

Regarding your co2 system, I'd start again with whole new tubing etc. 95g will not last long lol. I'm currently using a BOC cylinder with twin gauge regulator and solenoid. It's running for 7 hours, bubble count too fast to count. That's getting drop checker bordering on the yellow. 

Also, you don't need to spend a fortune on fertilisers. Probably one of the cheapest additives you can use. Have a read about EI. It's straight forward and provides everything the plants need in excess. You make it up yourself. Dead easy, only need to buy a couple salt chemicals (again from sponsors on here). 

Basically, if you add your ferts (EI), CO2 and light your plants with thrive. Leve out one thing and algae will thrive. Once you add all 3 components, you just need to monitor and make tweaks so algae doesn't take hold. Normally light is the main culprit. But, flow and lack of co2 plays a part too. 

Read the guides on here. They help. I've been doing this since December, and I love it. Can't believe I used to use plastic plants lol. 

You've got a good bonus too. Your mrs enjoys it lol. My girlfriend winges when I keep changing things and "messing about" lol.


----------



## Martin cape (16 Mar 2013)

Bloody hell, my longest reply ever !


----------



## TarkMalbot (16 Mar 2013)

How often should I be doing water changed and how much?  I have been doing 30% every 2 weeks but that was before Co2 which only started injecting since Tuesday and only just got the indicator to go green yesterday.
I am planning on reducing the light hours down from 11 hours a day to 6 hours.  lol
And have just bought a solenoid to use with the current system until I get a new regulator & solenoid.
The lighting is 1 x 30" 6700K Life-GLO and 1 x 30" 18000K Power-GLO.


----------



## Martin cape (16 Mar 2013)

I do 50% every week. That is part and parcel of dosing EI. As you are adding to excess, you "reset" the levels on water change day to start again. 

Not sure how much should be changed if not dosing EI (estimative index lol).


----------



## mi casa (17 Mar 2013)

HI with water changes i like to do 25l every day before light on and before i dose the ferts on my 200l tank.


----------



## TarkMalbot (17 Mar 2013)

Oh Boy!  Gone are the days of a 30% water change every 4-6 weeks like I used to do.  lol


----------



## Pedro Rosa (17 Mar 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> Oh Boy! Gone are the days of a 30% water change every 4-6 weeks like I used to do. lol


 
Welcome to the planted aquariums world 
I do around 40% every week.


----------



## AverageWhiteBloke (17 Mar 2013)

Was strange reading through this post as it was very similar to my own situation and how I started off with the very same tank and came across the same problems. The AR850 is a great tank IMO but the filtration system is not very plant friendly when dosing co2. Like Davem says making the transition to an external filter is the best move you can do and there's just enough room to fit two 12mm pipes side by side in the gap in the back left corner. The great thing about this is should you have a problem with your external you can switch back to using the original filter until you get it sorted. Modifying the lid would render the trickle filter useless. I inject co2 in mine and dose EI values. Dry ferts is the most economical way of going about it. One thing I would note with using this tank is according to the literature from the manufacturer this tank hold 165 litres but they could have only came to that conclusion based of the outside measurement of the glass with tank filled right to the brim. A more reasonable estimate going off when I filled mine was from memory either 127 or 137 litres or 30 gall. That's the volume I use when working out my dosing.


----------



## TarkMalbot (17 Mar 2013)

When I come to working out things like that I will take a 10 litre bucket of water out and measure the water drop and should be able to work out how much water is down to the gravel.  Not the most acurate but there will never be a time that the tank is empty and I have to re-fill.


----------



## TarkMalbot (17 Mar 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> Flourish is a good fert, however it doesn't contain n and p, which the plants need in abundance when your injecting c02. Also remember to keep on top of your water changes whilst injecting c02.


 
Because the tank is well (probably over) stocked am I not better off using something without n and p in it as my fish will produce the n and last time I check my water was high p anyway?


----------



## Ian Holdich (17 Mar 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> Because the tank is well (probably over) stocked am I not better off using something without n and p in it as my fish will produce the n and last time I check my water was high p anyway?



Plants love n&p, why would you not use it? 

Because you're now using pressurised c02, your demand on your plants will be higher. It's better to have to much than not enough, Liebig's law works in a planted aquarium. Just remember n and p do NOT cause algae, ammonia and light do. Keep up with the water changes as said previous and you'll be on a winner.


----------



## TarkMalbot (17 Mar 2013)

I just read on the TNC website that lite was better if your fish stock was high and the Complete was for low fish stocks and high planting. As much as I love the look of the plants the fish health is more important to me so I need to find a happy balance.


----------



## Martin cape (17 Mar 2013)

That's why 50% water changes are important when dosing fertilisers. 

You never really dose more than about 45ppm Nitrate, safe for fish. Dose about 15-20ppm Phosphate a week, safe for fish. Potassium is fine for fish. All the trace ferts are exactly that, trace. All fine for fish. Biggest risk for fish is overdosing CO2 pal. 

Have a read :

James' Planted Tank - Estimative Index Explained

I dose my tank with EI, co2 drop checker borders on yellow every day and my fish are fine and thriving


----------



## Ian Holdich (17 Mar 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> I just read on the TNC website that lite was better if your fish stock was high and the Complete was for low fish stocks and high planting. As much as I love the look of the plants the fish health is more important to me so I need to find a happy balance.



Fish health is also important to us all on here, however decaying plants though lack of nutrients will have a bigger detriment to fish health than keeping your n03 up in the tank. It is your choice on what you dose...


----------



## TarkMalbot (17 Mar 2013)

My problem is sometimes a little knowledge is more dangerous than none at all so I am advancing with caution and learning all the time. I am not being argumentative and am keen to know more. Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## Martin cape (17 Mar 2013)

Haha. Ya need anything pal, come through for the crack. I started this whole journey in December. Love it all now. Very easy once ya get to the "bullet" points and basics.


----------



## TarkMalbot (20 Mar 2013)

My wife fitted the solenoid this evening as a temp fix until the real kit arrives. That will stop her having to set up the Co2 every morning!


----------



## TarkMalbot (29 Mar 2013)

I am back from working away for 2 weeks. That tiny Co2 bottle lasted less than 3 weeks and I left my wife the wrong plant food to feed. Needless to say the plants are suffering a bit:













I got back late last night so at 7am this morning I went about setting up all the kit I had ordered whilst away.

I set up the Eheim 600 which has monster flow compared what the fish are used to! It's very noisy though compared to my other external filters so not sure if there is some air in there I can't get out.





I did a 50% water change and put all my trickle media in the Eheim.

I also set up my regulator and FE with new hose to the existing 3 in 1 check valve, bubble counter and diffuser.





I am still waiting for my new bubble counter and check valve and the UP inline atomiser is the wrong size. It's the correct size for the inlet pipe to the filter but not for the outlet pipe back to the tank. I thought about putting it on in the inlet but I heard it makes the pump noisier and its too loud as it is. I will try and exchange it for the correct one.

My EI starter kit arrived so I have mixed that up and fed today's dose.





At the moment I have the lights set up on a timer to come on at 4pm for 6 hours and the Co2 come on at 3pm for 6 hours. I will check the Co2 levels but have set it lower at the moment just to be on the safe side and will slowly increase. I don't want to Yoyo so will take it easy.

Any other advice?
I am hoping I can save these plants but don't know if I should remove and that at wilting or hope they come back?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Mar 2013)

hi, you should cut out all damaged leaves, this will allow the plant to use its energy on new growth, also if you dont they will decay and cause issues.  Be harsh, its painful but will pay back 10 fold normally.
And remove the dying non aquatic fern that i see is hiding in there


----------



## John S (29 Mar 2013)

The filter probably has air in it. Try gently tipping it from side to side, you should hear the air come out. I'd cut off the bad leaves, they should recover once you get the CO2 right. Your times for lights and CO2 are good starting points.


----------



## TarkMalbot (29 Mar 2013)

I will sort the plants out then. Can I plant that fern in a pot as a house plant? What about the Aponogetum? If I cut that down will it grow back?

I have been rocking the filter around all morning and opening and closing the taps to try and get rid of air but its still loud. I will keep trying.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Mar 2013)

just ignore the filter for a few days maybe a week as the smaller eheims have always been noisey until they settle in my experience.
Aponogetum should grow back fine but will take longer, with luck it has a good store of energy in its root.


----------



## TarkMalbot (29 Mar 2013)

The fish don't think it's a small Eheim. Lol. They are having to swim like made just to stop being swept away! 

I will get the ferns out and replaced with something else on Sunday. Any ideas of a suitable mid ground fern?


----------



## TarkMalbot (30 Mar 2013)

Everything has been running since yesterday morning now. I dosed Macro yesterday and Micro today and the Co2 and lights are on their timers.

This is what the checker is showing now an hour after lights out so really its showing the Co2 an hour before lights out. Looks ok to me.


----------



## TarkMalbot (3 Apr 2013)

Dosing pumps arrived this afternoon. I managed to get a free spare pump thrown in too.





There is a master that controls the timers and the slave that just does as its told:





Each pump can have up to 36 timed intervals. You can set the day of the week and how long the pump runs for.





I did a test and set it up to run pump 1 and 2 on alternative days for 1 min at the same time 15:00.





I fitted the non return valve at the end of the hose and fitted to the pipe holder:





I drilled two small holes in the back of the old filter housing and ran in the hoses.





With the pumps in place I used the manual mode to pump the fluid though the pipes until a drop came out. I then filled up 30ml (my daily dose) and timed how long it would take. I did this with everything in place and pipes to the correct length as the height and distance to be pumped will change the pumping speed.

As it happens it took 1 min to pump 30ml on speed 4 (the fastest) so my original guess was spot on.

Pumps in place:





My only concern is evaporation from the bottle but know I must have some hole in the top of the bottle so to not create a vacuum in the bottle. I might just drill a hole in both lids.

Once set up and in auto mode the screen shows your next 3 scheduled doses for each pump and then turns the screen off with just the auto light illuminated.

All programmed in:





I will see how it goes tomorrow at 15:00 and hopefully dose 30ml of micro solution.


----------



## LondonDragon (3 Apr 2013)

Nice, like those pumps and for the price I wish I had seen these before I built my ugly box! lol

BTW you will be better off with the non return valve on the bottle rather than at the end, the rollers in the pump will prevent flow going backwards anyway  (at least on my pump)

The non return valve on the cap of the bottle will let air in when pumping liquid out, but prevent the contents evaporating, since mine was EC didn't want to leave the bottle open anyway, not healthy for anyone 





Hope that helps


----------



## TarkMalbot (3 Apr 2013)

Thanks. I think I will get some other bottles and try a non return valve in the lid as you have shown.


----------



## Ady34 (4 Apr 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> Everything has been running since yesterday morning now. I dosed Macro yesterday and Micro today and the Co2 and lights are on their timers.
> 
> This is what the checker is showing now an hour after lights out so really its showing the Co2 an hour before lights out. Looks ok to me.


 
Hi mark,
not sure if ive missed something which explains why the dc colour is this for lights out, but to get the best from your plants this would be a guide as to the colour to aim for for lights on and throughout the photoperiod  If it only reaches this colour at the end of the photoperiod then its too late, your plants need good c02 levels for lights on as this is when they utilise it most.

The dosing pump looks great too, ideal for you if your away frequently...i could do with one just to make life even easier 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## TarkMalbot (4 Apr 2013)

The checker is that colour pretty much the whole time the lights are on but I was going by what I read in regards to the checker taking up to two hours to respond so if that photo was taken just as the lights went out at 10pm that would be an indication of what the Co2 levels were like at 8pm?


----------



## Gary Nelson (4 Apr 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> Dosing pumps arrived this afternoon. I managed to get a free spare pump thrown in too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
These look great - where did you get them from? a link would be great


----------



## TarkMalbot (4 Apr 2013)

Well it was a good job I was home when the dose started. The settings for auto dosing is start time and RUN TIME. I thought it was start time and END TIME. I had it set so it would run for 15 hours 1 min rather than start at 15:00 and end at 15:01! Woops. I will set it up correctly and post a photo for reference.


----------



## TarkMalbot (4 Apr 2013)

Sorted and tested properly this time!


----------



## TarkMalbot (4 Apr 2013)

My UP atomiser was the wrong size so getting it exchanged so I thought I would try the Fluval Co2 88 ceramic diffuser.

I also had a big cut back of the Aponogetum which has some new shoots coming up and removed some dead leaves from some other plants.  The grass type plants seem to have some fine algae on them but its only been a week with ferts and Co2 so I will give it chance. Some photos from today:





























Not doing so well:





Mr Kribby checking out what's going on:





Any advice on what I should do with the current setup to ensure I am getting the most out of it?

The bunch of long stem plants at the back are going to be spread out along the back a bit more at the next water change.


----------



## TarkMalbot (9 Apr 2013)

Aqua Essentials order arrived this morning.

And as I was setting up the FE in my new tank I swapped them around as my new one is tall and thin which won't fit in my other cabinet so it has gone under this tank nicely:





And as it is the wife's tank I had no say in the distribution of the plants, although I helped tie on the moss & ferns:


----------



## fish fodder (10 Apr 2013)

Looking lovely...... Might want to tie the anubias onto some wood too as it's another plant that will rot if the rhizome is buried.


----------



## TarkMalbot (23 Apr 2013)

The correct size UP atomiser arrived so I have replaced the Fluval Diffuser with it to see how I get on:





Seems to be a much finer mist of bubbles out of the spray bar. Still adjusting bubble count to get it right as its more efficient that the diffuser.


----------



## livewire (12 May 2013)

How are you finding the dosing pump? is it consistent with dosing the correct amount every day? have you had any problems with the one way value gumming up and becoming blocked?

I am looking to get the same pump so just wanted to ask these questions to someone who has the same unit. 

Cheers


----------



## TarkMalbot (12 May 2013)

The pumps are working fine. Nothing blocked up or anything and I haven't checked the calibration for a few months. I will do though and let you know how it is.


----------



## TarkMalbot (19 May 2013)

I checked the calibration this evening an it pumped 30ml in one minute which is exactly what it should have done and what I set it at web it was brand new. All good on that front but it did do something very strange this evening and dose for 1 min at 10pm even though it wasn't scheduled and had already dosed at 9pm as it should have done. A double dose tonight but not that bothered as I did a 50% water change earlier this evening.


----------



## livewire (20 May 2013)

TarkMalbot said:


> I checked the calibration this evening an it pumped 30ml in one minute which is exactly what it should have done and what I set it at web it was brand new. All good on that front but it did do something very strange this evening and dose for 1 min at 10pm even though it wasn't scheduled and had already dosed at 9pm as it should have done. A double dose tonight but not that bothered as I did a 50% water change earlier this evening.


 
Thats not good!


----------



## TarkMalbot (2 Jul 2013)

Maturing nicely but I think I need to do something with the long stem plants. They are bare at the bottom and too long at the top.


----------



## terry82517 (3 Jul 2013)

Brilliant read, what a transformation!


----------



## TarkMalbot (3 Jul 2013)

I have noticed the Co2 rate is a little slow no matter how much I open the valve. The gauge on the bottle is showing good so I think it may be the UP atomiser getting blocked and causing a restriction so will get that cleaned out.


----------



## justissaayman (4 Jul 2013)

What plant is in the top middle? (the tall one)


----------



## TarkMalbot (4 Jul 2013)

justissaayman said:


> What plant is in the top middle? (the tall one)



I have checked my order from aqua essentials and I think it is Hygrophila angustfolia rubra.


----------



## justissaayman (5 Jul 2013)

Thanks m8


----------



## justissaayman (10 Jul 2013)

@tark: You running the external now correct? Did you just cut a hole into the old filter system and install from there?

Also, how is the lighting in this? You running 1x Daylight and 2x Plant (red/pink) 18w lamps?

Reason for me asking is that I have just been offered one with a stand for £35... and I have a JBL Crystal Profi coming which is rated to 200liters?


----------



## justissaayman (11 Jul 2013)

@update: I just bought a AR850...


----------



## John S (12 Jul 2013)

justissaayman said:


> @tark: You running the external now correct? Did you just cut a hole into the old filter system and install from there?


 
You can fit an external without doing any mods to the old filter box. I use Eheim pipes (22/16) and you can fit them through the cut out that the light cable goes through as long as the tank isn't butted up against a wall.


----------



## justissaayman (12 Jul 2013)

So did you used different hose sizes? Any chance for a cheeky picture?


----------



## John S (12 Jul 2013)

Not sure what size the hoses are on the JBL.

These are when I first did it. It's a but tidier now.



and shot from rear


----------



## Anthony89 (12 Jul 2013)

Good read. Well done on your acheivements. Every thing looks really neat too. Unlike my tank, stuff hanging out here there and evrywhere lol.


----------



## justissaayman (14 Jul 2013)

Im getting a JBL as well (hopefully) and Ill be installing it like this as well, Thanks for the pictures.

Should I run the spray bar from front to back or side to side?


----------

