# Phosphate levels



## RudeDogg1 (29 Jan 2021)

What level of phosphate should we be aiming for? I use remineralised RO and dose AIO and fairly heavily planted my level is always around 0-0.25.


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## Hanuman (29 Jan 2021)

Depends on your likings. Here are 3 different levels:


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Jan 2021)

But what is the level it should be ie is mine to low which is kinda what I’m asking. In my old tank it was to high because I was using a hma filter and my tap water has really high phosphate so I was getting bad hair algae.


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## Hanuman (29 Jan 2021)

If you look at TSN it provides 0.37 ppm so you are not far off. Most EI ferts provide between 2 ppm and 4 ppm. JBL NPK is at 0.12 while other could be a 4ppm.

Here is my question. Do you see any sort of deficiency in your plants that leads you to think that you need more? If not then as the American proverb says "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Humour aside I think between 2 or 3ppm you should be good to go with no issues.


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## RudeDogg1 (29 Jan 2021)

Thanks, the only probs I
Have really is with hc and I think that may be down to when I had to turn the lights down to clear an algae issue when it was first cycling. So it’s ended up looking like this


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## Andy Pierce (29 Jan 2021)

I do 5.5 ppm phosphate from modified EI dosing (Estimative index, Fireplace aquarium) plus whatever the tap water brings. I've never had any kind of hair algae although I do have relatively easy to keep on top of green spot algae and some very slowly growing black brush algae? (Not confident about the identity of this).  I used to run lower phosphate but increased phosphate deliberately to try to fight the green spot algae. Can't say that actually worked (or didn't work) but I'm reasonably happy with current conditions:


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2021)

Hanuman said:


> Here is my question. Do you see any sort of deficiency in your plants that leads you to think that you need more?


Hi @Hanuman 

It would appear that phosphorus/phosphate deficiency isn't so easy to notice. One sign is stunted growth from what I can ascertain. But that isn't immediately obvious.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (29 Jan 2021)

RudeDogg1 said:


> my level is always around 0-0.25


Hi @RudeDogg1 

Is that, by any chance, using the JBL Phosphate (sensitive) test, this being what I use?

JPC


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## RudeDogg1 (30 Jan 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @RudeDogg1
> 
> Is that, by any chance, using the JBL Phosphate (sensitive) test, this being what I use?
> 
> JPC



No an api test kit


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## Fred Dulley (31 Jan 2021)

RudeDogg1 said:


> But what is the level it should be ie is mine to low which is kinda what I’m asking. In my old tank it was to high because I was using a hma filter and my tap water has really high phosphate so I was getting bad hair algae.


This combined with the picture you have provided indicates to me that your CO2 levels are too low and phosphates are not the issue.


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

Fred Dulley said:


> This combined with the picture you have provided indicates to me that your CO2 levels are too low and phosphates are not the issue.


and the low CO2 levels could be a result of poor flow in the area eg low flow near substrate causing lower leaves of the MC to melt, which results in more localized detritus and increase DOC which may be inducing localised algae, as the algae grows it compounds the localised flow. An Amano in the tank could make all the difference as that would clean up the algae which would also help flow in the area


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## RudeDogg1 (31 Jan 2021)

Zeus. said:


> and the low CO2 levels could be a result of poor flow in the area eg low flow near substrate causing lower leaves of the MC to melt, which results in more localized detritus and increase DOC which may be inducing localised algae, as the algae grows it compounds the localised flow. An Amano in the tank could make all the difference as that would clean up the algae which would also help flow in the area



Although my drop checker is lime green and there’s loads of flow you can see the low plants moving?


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

RudeDogg1 said:


> lime green and there’s loads of flow you can see the low plants moving?


are they moving at substrate level in the area of the algae ?


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## RudeDogg1 (31 Jan 2021)

Zeus. said:


> are they moving at substrate level in the area of the algae ?



Yes tbh I’m on the verge of yanking it out and planting something else it looks horrible


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

RudeDogg1 said:


> Yes tbh I’m on the verge of yanking it out and planting something else it looks horrible




TBH Flow looks good, has the flow always been that good at substrate level?

Heres some MC growing in the thick of my carpet




Which despite the Riccia going crazy is still doing OK and I am dailing CO2 down ATM as moving.

But think your right needs removing IMO also. I would trim out only the very best bits and replant in same area. Yours does have internodal elongation which is a condition of poor CO2 ( not light). I think if replanted best bits only with that flow it will be fine. Have you done a pH profile? that could be the cause of the issue as if the [CO2] is stable in the first four to five hours when lights come on is main issue with CO2 injection


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## RudeDogg1 (31 Jan 2021)

Yes I did a profile goes from 6.4-6.6


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## Zeus. (31 Jan 2021)

RudeDogg1 said:


> Yes I did a profile goes from 6.4-6.6



Not too shabby at all I like to get it within 0.1pH from lights on till CO2 off, Whats your Pre CO2 on time ? I would increase it in 10 to1 5min intervals and see how the pH profile looks then


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## RudeDogg1 (31 Jan 2021)

Its genrally 6.5 but sometimes its 6.6 before lights on. I have it come on 2 hours before lights on and off 1 hour before off. Co2 has always been stable but the carpets always looked poo. Its only the last week or so the co2 has been abit unstable after i must of knocked the dial when I swopped the cylinder having trouble getting it just right again. The last profile I did was tested every hour


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