# Blue Rams and nitrates



## jueloo (13 Nov 2009)

Hi all

I have heard that Rams dont like nitrates.  Has anyone else heard this and what level becomes too high for them? Does this mean they are not suitable in a tank where ferts are added daily?

Thanks
Julia


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## ceg4048 (13 Nov 2009)

I've heard this and so I decided to test it. The test failed and the blue rams didn't pay attention to the high nitrates. They just carried on. What blue rams don't like is poor maintenance and foul water. I believe that if you keep your water clean, nitrate will not be an issue.

Cheers,


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## Ed Seeley (14 Nov 2009)

Just to add to what Clive said above; I think we need to draw a clear distinction between nitrate present in a tank because levels have built up from the nitrogen cycle in the tank and filter and a lack of water changes and nitrate added in the form of potassium nitrate (or other chemical) as fertiliser.

Even delicate fish (and I've kept Biotoecus, various Apistogramma, wild angelfish, a range of killifish and many others in these conditions) seem to be uneffected by nitrate added as fertiliser.  

However let the levels of 'organically derived' nitrate rise and you will have issues with them.  I don't think it's the nitrate level causing issues, but other organics in the water we don't/can't measure.  IMO/E you also need to keep an eye on the TDS levels if keeping very delicate fish as my Biotoecus and killifish didn't like it when the TDS rose much over 300ppm and the fertilisers we add can really cause the TDS to shoot up.

The main problems with rams come with buying rubbish quality stock.  Buy good quality tank bred fish, or wild ones, and you'll find that they aren't that hard to keep at all.  Acclimatise them slowly when you add them and if you want to breed them successfully then you will probably need soft, low TDS water.


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## jueloo (14 Nov 2009)

Thanks Clive & Ed

What about CO2 levels?


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## ceg4048 (14 Nov 2009)

Hi,
    If the CO2 level is too high then it will kill any and all fish. For that reason I highly recommend that you check the Tutorial section of the forum study the article CO2 MEASUREMENT USING A DROP CHECKER

Cheers,


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## jueloo (14 Nov 2009)

Thanks Clive

I use a  drop checker, Iwas just wondering as this seems a sensitive fish, if it was sensitive to co2 levels.

Julia


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## dw1305 (16 Nov 2009)

Hi all,
Julia as the other posters have said they are quite delicate fish, but as they come from very warm, still waters they will not have a very high oxygen demand, and therefore they won't be any more sensitive to CO2 than other fish. For example warm water can hold less oxygen than cool water.

If you think of the CO2 and O2 exchange surfaces in the fishes gills, it is the differential between the gas levels across the exchange surface that matters, in a highly rheophilic fish from cooler waters (Salmon, Hill-stream Loach or Chaetosoma) the fish has evolved in a situation where a constant stream of water, rich in oxygen, has flowed across it's gills, allowing rapid diffusion of CO2 and O2 in. Problems are likely to occur when that fish is placed in warmer or less oxygen rich water as the rate of gas transfer slows. Fish from very oxygen depleted water often have additional methods of obtaining oxygen, labyrinth organ in Bettas, Gouramis etc. oxygen gulping and modified gut in Corydoras, some Plecs etc.

cheers Darrel


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## jueloo (16 Nov 2009)

Thanks for the replies guys.

Just to find somewhere that has a healthy stock.

Anyone know of anyone who breeds rams from a good stock, or wild?


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