# Honey Gourami and Red Honey Gourami



## confusedman (21 Feb 2021)

Are Honey Gourami and Red Honey Gourami the same thing?

The last fish we are getting is a second Honey Gourami but we would like a different colour (so we can tell them apart). We saw in a shop Red Honey Gourami and just want to make sure that they are the same species with just a colour variation (as we read is not good to mix different gouramis)

Thanks everyone


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## Mr.Shenanagins (21 Feb 2021)

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichogaster-chuna/ according to this yes they are the same, just different color strain.


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## Hufsa (21 Feb 2021)

Im of the opinion that the red form is a hybrid between chuna and labiosa. I find it especially obvious when you look at the difference in lip thickness between honey and the red "honey". But you should be fine to mix them, they are commonly kept together.


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## Sammy Islam (21 Feb 2021)

I have some "sunset honey gouramis" and "red robin honey gourami", they are totally different, i only realised when i got home and observing them. The body shape is a dead give away really, the "sunset" honey gouramis are more oval shaped with very small mouths. Where as the "red robins" are much bigger and are shaped like the "dwarf gouramis" you usually find. Temperament is toally different too, the "red robins" are aggressive and bold where as the "sunsets" are shy, gentle and very inquisitive.


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## EA James (21 Feb 2021)

@Sammy Islam do you have any pics of the sunsets? I’ve just googled them and most of the images look like my male (who sadly passed about 4 months ago) 
I’d like some more as they’re so placid and nice looking too, very underrated IMO


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## Conort2 (21 Feb 2021)

As @Hufsa mentioned, I believe the sunsets are a colour form of colisa chuna and the red robins are a hybrid of chuna and labiosa. They may even be a colour form of labiosa but seem a bit too small for that to be the case.

Cheers


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## confusedman (21 Feb 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> I have some "sunset honey gouramis" and "red robin honey gourami", they are totally different, i only realised when i got home and observing them. The body shape is a dead give away really, the "sunset" honey gouramis are more oval shaped with very small mouths. Where as the "red robins" are much bigger and are shaped like the "dwarf gouramis" you usually find. Temperament is toally different too, the "red robins" are aggressive and bold where as the "sunsets" are shy, gentle and very inquisitive.


Are the Red Robin Honey Gourami and the Red Honey Gourmais the same thing?

Oh god, I was confused with two types and now Ive got three!!


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## Sammy Islam (21 Feb 2021)

EA James said:


> @Sammy Islam do you have any pics of the sunsets? I’ve just googled them and most of the images look like my male (who sadly passed about 4 months ago)
> I’d like some more as they’re so placid and nice looking too, very underrated IMO
> View attachment 163418


This is one of mine


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

This is mine. Same fish in two pics


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> Temperament is toally different too, the "red robins" are aggressive and bold where as the "sunsets" are shy, gentle and very inquisitive.


Thats why we would like to get another one. He is super placid and gentle. Bothers no one, no one bothers him

Why the way, can anyone guess the gender looking at the pics?


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## GHNelson (22 Feb 2021)

That's a male according to Tropco!
Females stay a Grey/Brown.





						Honey Gourami - Trichogaster Chuna The Trop Company
					

The Honey Gourami is a shy and peaceful fish and likes its environment to be the same, with gentle flow rates and plenty of plant cover. They are an anabantoid (labyrinth fish) which means that they do breath atmospheric air as well as dissolve oxygen. This means that they do require access to...



					www.tropco.co.uk
				



hoggie


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## Courtneybst (22 Feb 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> I have some "sunset honey gouramis" and "red robin honey gourami", they are totally different, i only realised when i got home and observing them. The body shape is a dead give away really, the "sunset" honey gouramis are more oval shaped with very small mouths. Where as the "red robins" are much bigger and are shaped like the "dwarf gouramis" you usually find. Temperament is toally different too, the "red robins" are aggressive and bold where as the "sunsets" are shy, gentle and very inquisitive.



Do you think it would be suitable to have 2 males in a 4ft planted tank since they're so peaceful? Asking for... me haha.


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## GHNelson (22 Feb 2021)

*Ideal Number to Keep – *Though not gregarious in the sense of schooling fishes it does seem to require interaction with conspecifics and displays more interesting behaviour when maintained in numbers, meaning the purchase of no less than 4-6 specimens is recommended. Groups develop noticeable hierarchies and you’ll often see dominant individuals chasing away their rivals at feeding time or when occupying their favourite spot.


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## Sammy Islam (22 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> Thats why we would like to get another one. He is super placid and gentle. Bothers no one, no one bothers him
> 
> Why the way, can anyone guess the gender looking at the pics?


That may be the case but if you put in another male without any females they can be aggressive to eachother rather than with everyone else in the tank. Ideally i would get 2M 3F.


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## Gill (22 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> Are the Red Robin Honey Gourami and the Red Honey Gourmais the same thing?
> 
> Oh god, I was confused with two types and now Ive got three!!


Nope they are indeed different fish so there are 3

1. Red Robin Gourami Male - Largest of the 3, they are sometimes called Paprika Gourami
2. Honey Gourami Male
3. Gold Sunset Honey Gourami Male - The males get the same black coloration to them as the Honey Gourami Males when in display/breeding mode
In each case bar the sunsets the females are a duller muddy grey.
The Gold Sunset Females are a yellow/gold colour and have a dotted black line that runs horizontally along them.

Hope that Helps


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## Hufsa (22 Feb 2021)

Now it sounds even more confusing I think @Gill
I think he was asking if there are two varieties of Red gourami, not if the Sunset is the same as Red? Or have I misunderstood as well.

I agree there are three varieties of honeys though

You have the normal / wild color honey gourami, males with deep honey color and black bottom when in breeding dress, females a plainer beige silver with a line running along the body.

Sunset honey gourami which the male is yellow with orange details all the time, females are also yellow but with less orange details.

And finally the Red (+/- robin) gourami hybrid which is red with a more transparent tail. I dont know how the females look for this variety.


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

So.. they are 3 different types right? and mine according to your pics is the Dward Honey Red Gourami? I thought dwarg gouramis was a diferent one again...

God this is becoming confusing....




Gill said:


> Nope they are indeed different fish so there are 3
> 
> 1. Red Robin Gourami Male - Largest of the 3, they are sometimes called Paprika Gourami
> 2. Honey Gourami Male
> ...


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## Hufsa (22 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> according to your pics is the Dward Honey Red Gourami? I thought dwarg gouramis was a diferent one again...


No the text on that image is wrong, the photo is of a Sunset Honey Gourami. Red Dwarf gourami is something entirely different, those are red with a blue top fin.
Thats why I found it misleading


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## Gill (22 Feb 2021)

sorry i should have cut off the text as it is misleading.


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## Hufsa (22 Feb 2021)

Honey Gourami colors:
Current latin name "Trichogaster chuna", old latin names may include "Colisa chuna" amongst others.

"Wild / Natural / Standard" color honey gourami:




Male in neutral mood. This is how it might look in a fishstore




Male in breeding dress.




Female





"Sunset" color honey gourami:
Sometimes also listed as "Red Sunset", "Gold honey gourami", etc because the fish stores love fancy names and some of them like to add a few more names for fun and to make it extra confusing.




Male




Female and male.
Males of this variety do not have as large changes in color when breeding as the wild color, but they get somewhat of a black line at the bottom.






"Red" color honey gourami:
Sometimes listed as "Red Robin honey gourami".
Sold under same latin name as the other honeys although likely to be a hybrid due to body differences.



I was unable to find a clear picture showing a female of this variety, I assume females may be less easy to tell apart than in other forms.




DIFFERENT SPECIES:
Red Dwarf Gourami
Current latin name "Trichogaster lalius", but more commonly sold under the latin name "Trichogaster lalia" or "Colisa lalia".




Male red dwarf gourami. Females will be silver color without much if any red.

If you search for red gourami on google this will come up. This is a different species.
This species has several bred color varieties and even just this red form can be sold as Red, Flame, Red Flame, Blood Red, basically any name you can think of.
This species has a different temperament as well as being more susceptible to illness.


I hope this helps, I tried really hard to make it clear but all the fancy names dont help.
If this made it worse I will stop trying and leave well enough alone


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

So the "wild colour" and the Sunset are they same fish, and mine is Sunset right?


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## Hufsa (22 Feb 2021)

Not quite, you have the sunset, and the sunset is a different variant than the wild color variant.
They are however the same species, is that what you meant?


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## Conort2 (22 Feb 2021)

The joys of common names haha!

Wild colour and sunset are both trichogaster/colisa chuna

Red robin is trichogaster labiosa or maybe even a hybrid of that and chuna

Cheers


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

Hufsa said:


> Not quite, you have the sunset, and the sunset is a different variant than the wild color variant.
> They are however the same species, is that what you meant?
> 
> 
> ...


You did great sorry.
But, with my English limitations + all the info that I am processing in the last 3 weeks I might come across as stupid.
I have a Trichogaster Chuna. The colour is the called Sunset Honey Gourami and the wild colour is just a different colour.
So I guess my second one, as long is a Trichogaster Chuna (either Honey or Wild colour) should be fine.
Then we encounter the problem of the gender...


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## dw1305 (22 Feb 2021)

Hi all, 


confusedman said:


> The colour is the called Sunset Honey Gourami and the wild colour is just a different colour.


The coloured form is technically "oligomelanic"or "xanthic"and the wild form is "type", but they are both _Trichogaster chuna. _

I've never actually seen a live non-golden one, I'd buy wild type if I could find them, but I'm not personally as keen on <"the xanthic morph">.

cheers Darrel


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## DTM61 (22 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The coloured form is technically "oligomelanic"or "xanthic"and the wild form is "type", but they are both _Trichogaster chuna. _
> 
> ...


They had some wild type honeys in a Maidenhead I visited on Saturday but I think Manchester might be a bit far away for you. If they're still there next time I'll take some photos for you.


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## dw1305 (22 Feb 2021)

Hi all,


DTM61 said:


> If they're still there next time I'll take some photos for you.


Thank you. I maybe able to get them locally via MA then.

cheers Darrel


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## EA James (22 Feb 2021)

So after reading through this can someone confirm these are ‘Sunset’ honey’s?
They were just labelled as honey gourami in my local MA. I’d like some more so I want to know what to ask for!
Cheers


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## Hufsa (22 Feb 2021)

@EA James Sunsets indeed


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## EA James (22 Feb 2021)

@Hufsa thank you


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## sparkyweasel (22 Feb 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> The coloured form is technically "oligomelanic"or "xanthic"and the wild form is "type", but they are both _Trichogaster chuna. _
> 
> ...


I think shops like the 'sunset' because the wild type can look very dull in the shop, although they are beautiful when they have settled into a planted tank.


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> That may be the case but if you put in another male without any females they can be aggressive to eachother rather than with everyone else in the tank. Ideally i would get 2M 3F.


But I have no space for more fish so the Gourami was our last one. I hope is ok and they don't fight.
Shall i get male or female then?


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## EA James (22 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> But I have no space for more fish so the Gourami was our last one. I hope is ok and they don't fight.
> Shall i get male or female then?


Why don't you have any more space? Another couple won't do any harm, like @Sammy Islam says, 2 males and 3 females is a good ratio/group IMO


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## confusedman (22 Feb 2021)

Its only a 54 litres tank
1 guppy 1 swordtail 2 mollies 1 platy 1 honey gourami and 3 amanos
The second Gourami would be the last and final addition


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## Sammy Islam (22 Feb 2021)

confusedman said:


> Its only a 54 litres tank
> 1 guppy 1 swordtail 2 mollies 1 platy 1 honey gourami and 3 amanos
> The second Gourami would be the last and final addition


Then i would get a female. Pick one that has the dark line down the side to be sure 😉


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## confusedman (23 Feb 2021)

Sammy Islam said:


> Then i would get a female. Pick one that has the dark line down the side to be sure 😉


Umm in my LFS there were some with the line... but they said that they can either be male or female as that colour is going to change when they grow


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## sparkyweasel (23 Feb 2021)

Is that the same shop that gave you the previous advice?


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## confusedman (23 Feb 2021)

sparkyweasel said:


> Is that the same shop that gave you the previous advice?


Touché


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