# Algae and java moss won't grow



## b1zbaz (30 Sep 2012)

Hi all I have a 190 litre aquarium with discus and cories plus some schooling rummy nose tetras I do very frequent water changes using half r o water and half tap water my ph is constantly 6.8 with no movement whatsoever the tank has been setup for around 2 years the problem I'm getting is algae growth I have moved the tank as it was in direct sunlight it's growing mainly on my java fern I have a pressurised co2 system but don't know where to look as my next trial as its really beginning to annoy me plus my java moss won't grow it's still green just not growing


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## b1zbaz (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

My co2 is on 24 hours a day should it be turned off at night


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## nry (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

What fertiliser are you adding and what is your light/CO2 timing like?


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## jack-rythm (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

there is no need for your co2 to be on when your lights are off, this wont achieve anything and is just a waste of co2 and money  as for your algae some correct me if im wrong but co2 does not in any way affect algae growth, if anything its due to to much light and too little co2. co2 doesn't enhance growth just like fertz will not enhance algae growth.. how long are you lights on for??


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

My bubble counter was very slow about a bubble every 3 secs I have turned it up to a bubble a sec I use jbl clay balls lights are standard juwel with reflectors


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## mlgt (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Is the flow hitting the moss? What about critters? Are there shrimps who are doing some cleaning. 

Moss can be grown in many ways and if you are already uppying the light and co2 it should go boom. What is your tanks tempreture? sometimes certain mosses dont grow too well.


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Tank temp is just below 28 c I have no shrimp but do Hoover tank every three days the java moss was free flowing but I have just made an attempt at attaching it to bog wood I want to make a full wall of moss but can't seem to grow it whatsoever how long after th lights coming on should you see photosynthesis


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

What are critters


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## mlgt (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Critters I meant was clean up crew. Amanos, shrimps, snails etc 

Moss does take a while to settle, but once it does it grows  wildly.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Be careful upping your Co2 threefold while running it 24/7 mate.


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## jack-rythm (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

so true, I have had some weeping moss that was almost dead, attached to some wood in my jungle nano. It had been in there for almost 6-8 weeks doing nothing and this weekend i was about to take it all out and bin it but I can see bright green runners coming from it.. now i can see it beginning to grow healthily and bright  so pleased I waited for it to bloom!


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Yeah, I agree. The moss in my shrimp Mini M setup also seems to have started taking off now. 

Even the Fissidens seems to be flying.


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Gonna turn co2 off at night from now on


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*



			
				b1zbaz said:
			
		

> Gonna turn co2 off at night from now on



Try and purchase a Co2 Solenoid valve if possible. Turning co2 on and off manually is an ok method, till you forget one night..!

Also, one day you could turn it up to 1bps, the next 1.5 bps, then the next 1.2bps etc. This would induce Algaes such as BBA or Staghorn, because of the day to day fluctuation of co2 levels.

If you can't get a Solenoid, leave it as you were. 

Alternatively, turn it up and have an air pump turn on at night. But this method seems a waste of gas to me.


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

I have not got a huge amount of greenery at the moment would a picture help


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

The lights are twin t5s think the bulbs are called natural


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

The lights are on 11 hours a day is co2 better going into filter


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*


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## jack-rythm (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

thats a very large amount of light? i think its a case of low co2 and too much lighting? anyone agree?


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## b1zbaz (1 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

This is what I want to achieve any large or small quantities of moss for sale I have cash waiting


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## steve2tanks (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Lights on for 11hrs a day wouldn't really be helping with the problem


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

BBA is entirely caused by unstable co2.  If you have reflectors on your lights spin one round to block the light from the tank, drop you light period to something more reasonable like 6 hours (8 should be about your max when the tank is running well), increase co2 injection, increase flow and distribution, increase water changes and spot dose the BBA with liquid carbon.  It looks like you can remove the plants easily, if so then you can make a liquid carbon bath for the plants (not moss) in a 5ltrs of water add about 40ml of liquid carbon, dip the plants for about a minute or two then put them into a bucket with clean water.  After rinsing add them back to the tank, BBA will go pale or pink and then fall off, you still need to do all of the above otherwise it will only come back.
A solenoid will also help stability.  How are you injecting co2?


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Just with a regulator no solenoid will get a solenoid at weekend and liquid carbon will carbon in the filters help too I have spun the reflector and will reduce timing slowly though as not to upset the discus thank you very very much for your help I hope this works as I'm on the verge of giving up aquascaping


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## foxfish (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Hi b1zbaz, keeping sensitive fish & plants is not always easy1
You have received some good advice although large water changes might not be the best for your discus?
Perhaps you could carry out several smaller water changes during the week rather than one big one, do you treat your water at all?
Also I guess you have set quite a high temperature in your tank?
Another problem is your fish might not like the high flow & water movement that the plants in your tank need? 
You will have to find a compromise for your tank if you want good algae free plant growth & beautiful discus, it is definitely possible but not as easy as a tank with no fish or less sensitive fish.


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

I do 50 per cent changes weekly on my main tank and 50 per cent daily on my breeding tanks the discus can handle it easily you just have to ease them into things all this hype about discus being sensitive is rubbish you just have to be in a pretty strong routine really and things go swimmingly lol they are harder to breed than my kribs them things will make babies anywhere


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## foxfish (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Well if I am talking rubbish - then pump up the gas, turn up the flow, turn on the lights and grow plants - easy!


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

I'm not saying your talking rubbish I'm saying discus are not difficult I'm going to put your advice into action ASAP thank you


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

As for the do I treat my water in what way do you mean I use ro water with triple buffer if that is what you mean


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Is it normal for co2 to accumulate at the top of the counter or is it just not being dissolved


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## foxfish (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Growing plants is not that difficult once you grasp the fundamental basics of how it all works.

If we had a fish free tank then we would turn up the co2 to a high level & adjust the flow & light to suit, however, most fish would be poisoned at such high levels of C02!
So we need to compromise & adjust the gas to suit the fish.
We need to distribute the C02 at just the right flow rate within the display tank too, as a guide look at using a filter or pump that operates around 10 x the tank volume per hour.
We need to get the C02 into a water soluble form & introduce it into the flow, that can be done in many ways - inline atomisers are very popular.
Once we have flow & C02 sorted then we need to offer some light, more light needs more gas & possibly more flow but we always have to think of the fish.
One way, is to turn up the gas over a week or so, very slowly & gradually until we see any signs of stress in the fish!
You have to be on the ball through & quickly turn back the C02 just a bit :? 
Once we have found the right level of C02 you fish are happy with then we can up the light until we see good growth & no algae.
It helps to realise that 95% of the plants we keep, in fact, much prefer to grow out of the water & are grown that way until they reach the shops or your tank. 
Of course any  plant growing out of the water will have unlimited supply of C02 so we are already compromising!


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Aaaahhhhhhhhh now that puts it in lamens terms so if I remove my reflectors and turn co2 up things should even out my lfs told me I need metal halide lighting to stop algae


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## foxfish (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Yes but, be careful as to much gas will kill your fish!


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## Iain Sutherland (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*



			
				b1zbaz said:
			
		

> my lfs told me I need metal halide lighting to stop algae



your lfs tells lies


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Ok cheers foxfish do I turn it a bit daily or every hour till fish show signs of distress when the bottle is running obviously the pressure in the cylinder gets lower and you have to open the regulator a bit more each week is there any way round this or is it a case of get used to it and should I let the bubbles go into my external filter or will it kill media and/or eventually stop the syphon action is the only way to know too much is going into the water by watching fish I only really want moss to grow as its beautiful in the right circumstances


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## b1zbaz (2 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Easerthegeezer they do tell lies as they also told me no plants will grow under twin t5s and that I need at least 4


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

I think it might pay ypu tp read a few forum threads like this viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467
This viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211 & this viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1275


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## jack-rythm (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

damn LFS's they know nothing!!


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## b1zbaz (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Week all I can say is you bunch of miracle workers I'm almost certain my algae holding off and 100 per cent certain my java moss is growing


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## b1zbaz (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

It's a bloody long read but very knowledgeable them topics foxfish


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## foxfish (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Maybe so but, at least you have a good idea now & to be honest it only took you a few hours or so


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## b1zbaz (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Still have no clue but I'm using my air stone again now as it says the plants use oxygen at night so should make life a bit easier on the fish I might do a plant only tank just as a trial run thanks for your efforts in helpings it's much appreciated I will no doubt be questioning you again soon though cheers again


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (3 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Good luck with it all mate, just remember, do everything slowly & make sure the fish are ok before trying to progress.

Fish need time to adapt to higher co2 levels, so gradually turn it up over a period of days.

Turn airstone on at night as a precaution, don't use it as a method of having huge co2 levels during the day and trying to gas that off at night.


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Glad to hear things are getting better, the principles are really very simple.. you just have to bugger it up a bunch of times before you really understand it   
As Amano says - he only has his success now because he failed for so long. 

All the best mate


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## b1zbaz (6 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> BBA is entirely caused by unstable co2.  If you have reflectors on your lights spin one round to block the light from the tank, drop you light period to something more reasonable like 6 hours (8 should be about your max when the tank is running well), increase co2 injection, increase flow and distribution, increase water changes and spot dose the BBA with liquid carbon.  It looks like you can remove the plants easily, if so then you can make a liquid carbon bath for the plants (not moss) in a 5ltrs of water add about 40ml of liquid carbon, dip the plants for about a minute or two then put them into a bucket with clean water.  After rinsing add them back to the tank, BBA will go pale or pink and then fall off, you still need to do all of the above otherwise it will only come back.
> A solenoid will also help stability.  How are you injecting co2?


Just a quick question what type of liquid carbon am I to get as my lfs said the stuff they have won't kill bba and also what is bba lol


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## Iain Sutherland (6 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Most liquid carbons will do the job, if not all.
Sold here by one of our sponsors, personally i found easy carbo less effective than excel or aquacarbon.
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/water-p ... 6a62885482

BBA is black beard algae or black brush algae depending on who you talk to.  Good algae guide here.
http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.co.uk/


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## b1zbaz (7 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Jesus I carbon bathed my Anubis today I can't believe the difference it's made thanks for very much for the advice thi has given me a real boost to get things rolling now thanks a lot


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## b1zbaz (8 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

A few piccies to see if there is a difference


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## b1zbaz (9 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*


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## bigmel (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

Looking better   

I,ve had a nightmare with BBA Twice   

Mines just a noddy none co 2 set up with vallis and java moss , the moss grows like stink but the vallis seems to be melting .

Anyway , when the BBA has appeared i,ve lacked water changes , and not cleaned my filters regulary enough .

The Excell worked much better than the easy carbo for me .  

Discus look really well in the tank


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## Iain Sutherland (11 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*



			
				bigmel said:
			
		

> the moss grows like stink but the vallis seems to be melting .



Vals are quite susceptible to melt when using liquid carbon mel, they really dislike it overdosed.


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## mattwood (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

have you considered growing the moss outside of the tank in a pot on the windowsill. i know some people have had some very good results, doubling in size with the common mosses. it may be worth doing that if the plan is a moss wall at the end.


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## b1zbaz (13 Oct 2012)

*Re: Algae and java moss won't grow*

I hav cut a piece off to try that cheers it's growing quite well in the tank now too


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