# Algae ID?



## Sprayman60 (19 Jan 2022)

Can anyone ID this already? I'm thinking either diatoms or rhizoclonium. Any advice on getting rid of this please?


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## jaypeecee (20 Jan 2022)

Hi @Sprayman60 

Looks more like a Moss to me. I seem to recall that @Hufsa is pretty clued up on Mosses. Or, perhaps, @dw1305.

JPC


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Sprayman60
> 
> Looks more like a Moss to me. I seem to recall that @Hufsa is pretty clued up on Mosses. Or, perhaps, @dw1305.
> 
> JPC


On the wood its a fissidens and riccardia mix but the brown algea can become stingy/flossy and breaks up easily


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## GHNelson (20 Jan 2022)

Hi 
Looks like a new tank syndrome detritus?
More information would be helpful.





						Please read the guidelines for Algae help!
					

Dear Member  Please give as much detail as possible regarding your aquarium set-up, when requiring advice/help! Please upload photographs if possible. Copy and Paste the numbered questions and add your answers next to each!  1. Size of tank in litres. 2. Age of the set - up. 3. Filtration. 4...



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hoggie


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

Im thinking diatoms as well. Should pass, just do the normally suggested things for new tanks, make sure light isnt too strong, CO2 is on point (take PH profile) and do water changes to reduce the load on the watercolum.


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Hi
> Looks like a new tank syndrome detritus?
> More information would be helpful.
> 
> ...


Worth looking into thanks i had it before then rescaped and now its back


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Im thinking diatoms as well. Should pass, just do the normally suggested things for new tanks, make sure light isnt too strong, CO2 is on point (take PH profile) and do water changes to reduce the load on the watercolum.


Thanks i think in going to cut the dosing out for a week as that would be the only change I can make at this point, I've increased the flow and lowered the light intensity, c02 is at the right level also


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

Your plants require food and they will starve long before the algae do, so I wouldnt do that if I were you. How long since you made those changes? Things take time to work.


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Your plants require food and they will starve long before the algae do, so I wouldnt do that if I were you. How long since you made those changes? Things take time to work.


OK I will continue, I tried to focus on that bu using the plants to fight back against the algea but not luck so far, I started dosing searches excel aswell for the past 2 weeks which has slowed it down


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

If you can, please provide us with the information outlined in @GHNelson  's link


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> If you can, please provide us with the information outlined in @GHNelson  's link



1. 70L
2. Roughly 3 months but rescaped but only by adding to it
3. Oase 100 thermo
4. Hygger 14w + fluval aquasky 2.0 (changing today for chihiros vivid mini) 8 hours a day dimmed.
5. Tropica soil powder + dennerle aqua soil
6. Yeast DIY C02
7. Profito easy life professional plant fertiliser 1ml per day - recommended dosing 
Seachem excel 2ml per day
8. 1st week after rescape daily water change 50%
Last 2 weeks every 2 days water change, cleaning algea
9.Rotala H'ra
Ludwigia palestrina
Fissidens moss
Riccardia moss
rotala bonsai
Eleocharis parvula 
Eleocharis acicularis
Hemianthus callitrichoides​staurogyne repens
Blyxa japonica 



10. Chilli rasboara 
       Galaxy rasbora 
        Pygmy cory
        Otocinulus catfish 
        Crystal red shrimp
       Blue jelly shrim



11.


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

Sprayman60 said:


> Roughly 3 months but rescaped but only by adding to it


So the tank in total is 3 months old, or 3 months since the rescape?



Sprayman60 said:


> Hygger 14w + fluval aquasky 2.0 (changing today for chihiros vivid mini) 8 hours a day dimmed.


Dimmed to what percentage?



Sprayman60 said:


> Yeast DIY C02


😬 This is a very unstable way of providing CO2 to your tank, there are not many experienced people who recommend using this method. You said your CO2 is the right level, how are you determining this? Have you performed a PH profile? Everyone thinks their CO2 is "good" and almost everyone is wrong, especially if they are new to this.



Sprayman60 said:


> Profito easy life professional plant fertiliser 1ml per day - recommended dosing


This fertilizer "Contains no nitrates or phosphates", which makes their claim that it is a complete fertilizer, misleading at best..
You will probably be ok to use it while your soil is still new and rich in N and P, but you will likely experience problems down the road at some point once your plants run out of N and P sources.



Sprayman60 said:


> Seachem excel 2ml per day
> 1st week after rescape daily water change 50%
> Last 2 weeks every 2 days water change, cleaning algea


The Excel contains glutaraldehyde which is a biocide, an algae killer amongst other things. Im not personally a fan of glutaraldehyde, but it will likely help fight the algae. Make sure to stay within the recommended dosing to minimize the risk to your livestock.

Continue the frequent waterchanges and the manual removal of algae as much as you can. Any rotting or melting plant matter should also be removed. Almost all new tanks go through an ugly phase, which may be mild or severe based on your level of experience and control over the factors in the tank.

The main things I think you should look at for helping your tank do its best, is light levels and CO2, not just how much CO2 you are adding, but also that the level stays consistent throughout the photoperiod, and that you have sufficient flow to bring the CO2 to the plants.
This is not a simple task, but you will be rewarded for the effort 
Make sure to include in your reply wether or not you have performed a PH profile

I find it noteworthy that your carpeting plants and mosses are the ones showing the most diatoms. This to me could indicate they are struggling more than the other plants. Carpet plants are usually the first to suffer under lack of CO2, not sufficient flow and/or too much light driving growth that is not sustainable by the other factors. Mosses are fairly low light plants and could be getting blasted with more light than they can handle.


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> So the tank in total is 3 months old, or 3 months since the rescape?
> 
> 
> Dimmed to what percentage?
> ...


3 months old and rescaped around 3 weeks ago
lights are dimmed to 50%

I have a PH checker in the tanks which is shows green or can I do further checks? I do also have PH liquid test. I use jelatin with the mixture which looks to make it consistent. I do plan to add pressurised C02.

The plant fertiliser I can replace, no problem, any suggestions? 2hr aquarist complete or tropica?

Thanks for the advice I am changing the lighting today so it can be more consistent and will change the fertiliser. The C02 can also be changed, can you recommend a good setup for this size tank?


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## pat1cp (20 Jan 2022)

A word of warning, the Vivid mini is MUCH more powerful than the lights you currently have.


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

pat1cp said:


> A word of warning, the Vivid mini is MUCH more powerful than the lights you currently have.


Haha I understand, hopefully with a change of C02 and fertilizer I can get it on the right track


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

I looked for a tutorial on performing a PH profile, but couldnt find any, @pat1cp do you know if we have one?
I found this post by @Zeus. with some more details on it

I second Pat's concern about the new much stronger light, I would dim this down quite substantially otherwise youre really gonna be in for a wild ride


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## Sprayman60 (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> I looked for a tutorial on performing a PH profile, but couldnt find any, @pat1cp do you know if we have one?
> I found this post by @Zeus. with some more details on it
> 
> I second Pat's concern about the new much stronger light, I would dim this down quite substantially otherwise youre really gonna be in for a wild ride





Hufsa said:


> I looked for a tutorial on performing a PH profile, but couldnt find any, @pat1cp do you know if we have one?
> I found this post by @Zeus. with some more details on it
> 
> I second Pat's concern about the new much stronger light, I would dim this down quite substantially otherwise youre really gonna be in for a wild ride


Thanks for the info I will have a read through.

I understand with the high light and will be dimmed down, what levels of light would you advise?


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## Hufsa (20 Jan 2022)

Sprayman60 said:


> I understand with the high light and will be dimmed down, what levels of light would you advise?


Im sorry to say I havent used this brand of light myself, so it would just be guesswork. 
I think @Wookii has a Vivid, maybe he can chime in?


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## dw1305 (20 Jan 2022)

Hi all,


Sprayman60 said:


> I'm thinking either diatoms or rhizoclonium.


Definitely one or the other.


Sprayman60 said:


> 3 months old and rescaped around 3 weeks ago


They look like filamentous diatoms, but <"you can tell by feel">. Diatoms are often present in recently set up tanks (I'd still regard 3 months as "recently set up" and lacking in <"seasoned tank time">).


Sprayman60 said:


> 5. Tropica soil powder + dennerle aqua soil
> 6. Yeast DIY C02
> 7. Profito easy life professional plant fertiliser 1ml per day - recommended dosing
> Seachem excel 2ml per day


Plant growth looks OK but possibly a little bit yellow? so <"possibly deficient in one of essential plant nutrients">.  What does your floating plant look like? They have access to atmospheric CO2 and <"first "dibs"> on the light. Plants can only make use of the extra carbon (from the Excel and CO2) if their growth isn't limited by one of the other nutrients.


Sprayman60 said:


> 2hr aquarist complete or tropica?


Either will do. There is a breakdown of cost in the <"IFC calculator">. Fertilisers intended for <"terrestrial plants are usually cheaper">, and safe as long as you use <"them at low dosing"> (they often contain urea (CO(NH2)2)) or ammonium (NH4).

cheers Darrel


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## pat1cp (20 Jan 2022)

I think I'd start the light quite low........circa 25% and step it up gradually. More can be read here Aquarium LED - Aquascaping Wiki

I'm pretty sure it's diatoms you're suffering with. Lowish light and regular water changes are what (I believe) is required, it will pass in a few weeks. I don't have the extensive experience of some on here, but (I believe) the soil leaches material into the water column that the diatoms feed on. Water changes remove this material from the water column and over time and the diatoms go away. I've no real evidence of this, just bits I've read and personal experience.

Remove as much as you can manually during the water changes too, it's usually quite easy to remove with a syphon and an old toothbrush.


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## pat1cp (20 Jan 2022)

I went from this diatom outbreak early on.






To this, just regular water changes.


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## Zeus. (20 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> tutorial on performing a PH profile, but couldnt find any


No I have never found one, often thought of putting one together and never got round to it


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## pat1cp (20 Jan 2022)

pat1cp said:


> I think I'd start the light quite low........circa 25% and step it up gradually. More can be read here Aquarium LED - Aquascaping Wiki
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's diatoms you're suffering with. Lowish light and regular water changes are what (I believe) is required, it will pass in a few weeks. I don't have the extensive experience of some on here, but (I believe) the soil leaches material into the water column that the diatoms feed on. Water changes remove this material from the water column and over time and the diatoms go away. I've no real evidence of this, just bits I've read and personal experience.
> 
> Remove as much as you can manually during the water changes too, it's usually quite easy to remove with a syphon and an old toothbrush.


I did some more research on this, looks like I may be talking complete codswallop about the soil leaching into the water column and feeding diatoms.

Regardess, less light and water changes are the way.


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## Greeny (21 Jan 2022)

Hi all,

I'm just about at that point where I think I'm going to tear my scape down and leave it for a while and maybe start up again in a few months' time. I have been suffering from all sorts of algae including BGA for so long now and am just at the end of my tether as it may look pretty nice after a maintenance session but doesn't take long to start up again so just seems pointless now. I have to add blue/green stain remover after each maintainance session to keep it in check. I've also done 2 blackouts and it still keeps coming back.

 Anyway, the main reason why I posted is cause my experience may help a little for Sprayman60. I have a twinstar 450 on an ADA 45p with no livestock, I was getting signs of this hair algae way back (at the beginning of the pandemic) which looked like moss, it didn't really get bad and it wasn't difficult to remove. However, a few months ago it started getting bad, I wasn't always doing regular maintenance due to time constraints but there was a time I left it for a month without maintenance and it grew like crazy and I finally identified it.  It was blanket weed that you see commonly in ponds. Anyhow, of course, I removed as much as I could and got the tank looking better again but it would grow back quickly. I figured that the twinstar was giving out too much light so got a dimmer and set it to 30% with a 6-hour photoperiod, this slowed the algae down a lot and the blanket weed became brown in color. It certainly looked like it made it less healthy and easier (less sticky) to remove. It's still growing and it looks more like detritus build-up and it's pretty quick to keep looking the same (bear in mind I don't have any fish so how often should I really have detritus in the tank?)  I've attached pictures of what it looks like now and seems to look very similar to what Sprayman60 has in his tank. I'm not sure they are the best pictures of it but hopefully, you get an idea.


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## Hufsa (21 Jan 2022)

Greeny said:


> Im just about at that point where I think I'm going to tear my scape down and leave it for a while and maybe start up again in a few months' time.


If you take the scape down and restart it again with the same gear, isnt it likely to turn out exactly the same way?

Have you had a help thread in the algae section? If youre willing to give it a final try, im sure we could collectively figure it out with you 
This forum has fixed some pretty gnarly tanks


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## GHNelson (21 Jan 2022)

Hi
Hair grass is a magnet for collecting waste material
I would remove it give it a good clean or bin it.
If you can source a hob or an internal filter I would run it with filter floss and replace the floss every other day with new floss!
Chop some of those Ludwigia stems and use them as floating plants!
hoggie


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## Greeny (21 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> If you take the scape down and restart it again with the same gear, isnt it likely to turn out exactly the same way?
> 
> Have you had a help thread in the algae section? If youre willing to give it a final try, im sure we could collectively figure it out with you
> This forum has fixed some pretty gnarly tanks



I haven't yet Hufsa but I will cause it's worth a try and I don't think I can solve this issue on my own. I'm not going to post on here anymore cause I don't want to hijack Sprayman60's thread, what he had just looked like what I had, I guess it was a little cry for help if I'm honest, don't know why I didn't post, was reluctant from posting myself trying to find answers from other peoples threads. Anyway, hopefully, I'll get it posted this weekend. Thanks for the offer of help, appreciate it.


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## Greeny (21 Jan 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Hi
> Hair grass is a magnet for collecting waste material
> I would remove it give it a good clean or bin it.
> If you can source a hob or an internal filter I would run it with filter floss and replace the floss every other day with new floss!
> ...



Thanks, Hoggie for the help. I'll try and give your suggestions a go. I'll also start a new thread so as not to take away from Sprayman60.


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## Sprayman60 (24 Jan 2022)

Thanks everyone for the replies I appreciate it. So far I'm seeing an improvement over the last few days. The algea is not growing fast. I have turned the flow up, changed the fertiliser, trimmed some plants and new lighting on 15% power for 8 hours. I've managed to get a lot of the algea away manually 

Hopefully does the trick. Will post a pic tomorrow.


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## Sprayman60 (24 Jan 2022)

Not the best pic but heres a pic from today and the before pic.

Last water change was yesterday


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## Sprayman60 (30 Jan 2022)

Just thought I'd give another update, seems to be working well


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## erwin123 (30 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> I looked for a tutorial on performing a PH profile, but couldnt find any, @pat1cp do you know if we have one?
> I found this post by @Zeus. with some more details on it
> 
> I second Pat's concern about the new much stronger light, I would dim this down quite substantially otherwise youre really gonna be in for a wild ride


after reading a few posts on pH profiling in UKAPS, I sort of understood it and was able to perform my own pH profiling. At its simplest, you are just measuring the pH of your water in your tank to check whether pH and thus CO2 levels are stable throughout the photo period.

As a starting point you would want to get a stable 1.0pH drop from the pH of degassed water but this should be checked against the drop checker colour (i.e. drop checker should be limegreen / green).

There is a little bit of 'maths' behind the 1.0pH drop. Assuming kH is normal, a 1.0pH drop means your CO2 concentration has increased by 10x from whatever was the starting point. For example - 2pm to 20ppm, or 3pm to 30ppm.


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