# Help on a layout!!!!!!



## Alastair (11 Sep 2010)

This is my very first post on UKAPS so i big hi to everyone. Have got some great info off here so far. 

Anyway here goes, Im stuck for ideas for a layout for my tank, and was wondering if any of you guys can point me in the right direction on scaping it. I have a juwel vision 450 currently set up which has been running for about a year. This is my very first tank by the way. 
ive been looking at the planted gallery on here and want to go for something very natural with lots of wood, stones and am going to be ordering lots of Mr Knotts` nature soil for it.(currently has silver sand which i cant stand any more)

I basically want to take everything out and start from scratch. I wont have enough to invest in a co2 kit i dont think, with the cost of plants and wood and of course the substrate.
I will be taking out the internal filteras i have a ex1200 running and have just recieved a second one.
Lighting wise it has 4 t5 54 watt tubes. a clour and 3 daylight. is this enough? 

Id really appreciate any ideas or help from you guys as im stuck as to what to do and it just looks a jumble of plants at the moment.......   

I will attach a phot of it if anyone can tell me how lol


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## ceg4048 (12 Sep 2010)

Hi, Welcome to the forum!  

A key point I think is important to consider:



			
				ALt81 said:
			
		

> I wont have enough to invest in a co2 kit i dont think, with the cost of plants and wood and of course the substrate....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is your first mistake and it will prove to be the biggest. You have selected style over substance. CO2 grows plants and it's critical in a tank lit by high wattage T5. The Knott substrate is very expensive, yet you've elected to allocate the limited funds for dirt instead of for CO2 gear. There are much cheaper substrates which can be used and cheap ways to fertilize the tank.

If dirt, wood and stones are a higher priority, and if you decide that CO2 enrichment is not wanted, then you ought to be looking to use less light, not more.

Cheers,


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## Alastair (12 Sep 2010)

Thanks for the info there. I guess ill have to push to investing in a co2 kit also then. The t5 lights are standard on my tank so if I wanted less light I'd have to go with a different lighting unit. 
I only decided on the nature soil substrate as I'm not overly keen on the others and I like the small rounded effect of the grains. I quite liked the manado substrate but have heard bad reviews on it . I wasn't sure if I could just dose with a liquid co2 or make a few diy kits........


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## ceg4048 (12 Sep 2010)

Hi,
    Liquid Carbon would be exceedingly expensive on this size tank. If you are handy then building a pair of external reactors should be a doddle. Ed Seeley has a thread on how to do this in the CO2 section. You can also have a look at Akadama which has the rounded shape. Look at the sticky thread in the Substrate section. Please also check the Tutorials section where you will find articles on CO2, fire extinguishers, nutrient dosing and plant maintenance. If you do a search you should easily be able to find second hand CO2 regulators or new ones for cheap. It's really not that expensive unless you insist on name brands.

Cheers,


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## Alastair (12 Sep 2010)

Thanks again ceg, really appreciate the info. Will have a look on the forum now for his thread, and certainly not fussed about going for named brands if it means me saving on the pennies in the long run. Have also come across the columbo florabase from a thread on here too and thats slightly cheaper than the nature soil, and have also read your thread on spraybar postioning in relation to co2 movement.Loved the pics of your 6 footer on that thread. Given me a few ideas on a layout and Really helped as ill be having two externals with spray bars. Although having ideas and actually doing a scape are too different things ha. 

Obviously with taking out all my old sand and plants etc i take it i will be basically starting from scratch with regards to waiting time to put my fish back in?


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## Stickleback (13 Sep 2010)

You could go for the more low tech approach. Here's some useful info.

Non CO2:

http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.ph ... O2-methods

Non CO2 natural light only:

http://www.tuncalik.com/2009/09/biotope-in-my-study/

http://www.tuncalik.com/2010/01/indoor- ... aquariums/


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## ceg4048 (13 Sep 2010)

Yes, that's a great point. You are not compelled to use CO2 enrichment. You can use the non-CO2 approach which has the advantage of low maintenance/low growth. However, if you go this route you have to ensure that you don't exceed the lighting requirements as I mentioned before.



			
				ALt81 said:
			
		

> I will attach a phot of it if anyone can tell me how


 Please see the sticky thread How do you post a picture in the Technical section.



			
				ALt81 said:
			
		

> Obviously with taking out all my old sand and plants etc i take it i will be basically starting from scratch with regards to waiting time to put my fish back in?


This is not a big deal. Put them in a bucket while you change out everything then put them back in when you've finished. Just don't take all day, that's all. I assume you'll be using the same filters so this shouldn't be a big deal. If the filters are new then just run them for a few weeks in the old setup to get them going first.

When you do the changeout, make sure you collect some of the brown mulm from the old and seed the bottom of the new substrate.

Cheers,


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## Fred Dulley (13 Sep 2010)

Stickleback said:
			
		

> http://www.tuncalik.com/2009/09/biotope-in-my-study/




Oooh, that link was doing so well until I read this.



> Because the nitrate and phosphate levels are so low that they are practically immeasurable, even direct sun light for a couple of hours doesnâ€™t cause algal blooms



Personally didn't read the rest from then on


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## Anonymous (13 Sep 2010)

Why?


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## Fred Dulley (13 Sep 2010)

Because he's of the mind that nutrients cause algae. So for me, I just won't read on.
Direct sunlight is no different either. Too much of any light whether it's aquarium bulbs or the sun will cause algae. Just because it's sunlight, doesnt mean it's more prone to cause algae.


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## nry (13 Sep 2010)

Because nitrate and phosphate at high levels don't cause algae blooms.


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## chrisfraser05 (13 Sep 2010)

a quick point.

As others have said you will either need to use CO2 if you keep the same amount of lighting or reduce lighting to go non CO2.

You do not have to change your lighting setup though, just remove a couple of bulbs 

Try running with just 2 54w's instead of all 4


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## Alastair (13 Sep 2010)

thanks chris, it sounds easier to use just the two tubes, but if i did the the light in the tank seems pretty dull in comparison to what it is now. im going to pop a pic on of how it looks now, excuse the jumble of plants everywhere. As ull see it looks nice and bright with all 4 on. i put just two on first thing and it doesnt seem to look as appealing.


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## Alastair (13 Sep 2010)

here it is......


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## Anonymous (13 Sep 2010)

ALt81 nice tank, good luck with it.



> Because he's of the mind that nutrients cause algae. So for me, I just won't read on.



Just try to see the beauty of a self maintained aquarium. Usually in this case high N comes with a price of ammonia spikes due to the lack of filtration. He knows what he's doing and it's fun to see/read that some people still do this kind of stuff.

Cheers,
Mike

P.S. Thinking outside the box ...


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## Alastair (13 Sep 2010)

BROWN MULM? is that from in the filters ceg?


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## ceg4048 (14 Sep 2010)

Mulm is the detritus that you can find at the bottom of the filter or even in the sediment. The mulm contains all kinds of goodies such as bacteria which helps virgin filter media and virgin sediment get going more quickly.

Cheers,


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