# Which substrate option is best?



## Dominic (2 Jan 2014)

My tank is going to have a 8100 square cm base, and it is going to be a high tech co2 tank.

I was wondering whether a substrate like john innes no3 would have a significant difference to using the commercially available sources such as the tropica substrates etc. The tropica aquacare plant substrate interests me due to the cheap price and 5litres seemingly being enough to cover my tank base, according to George farmer's article. Does anyone know where I could find some?

Is it worth spending extra money on a commercially made substrate? Or should i expect a good result from john innes no3? I am planning on capping it with moler clay/cat litter.

Any advice would be great. Cheers


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## darren636 (3 Jan 2014)

You should expect good things from a JI NO3 substrate. Even better if you combine with the tropica stuff. Although I've never seen tropica soil in a shop. Online is probably best. Or look for shrimp soil on ebay- the stuff in the green bag  AQUA GRO


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## Dominic (3 Jan 2014)

Okay thank you, I have another question,

Instructions state that on some substrates you have to use a 1-2cm layer think substrate etc then capped with whatever gravel you are using, what would happen if i didn't buy enough substrate, say, only enough for a heavy sprinkling over the bottom, and mixed that with another type of substrate. Would this render the nutritional values of the first substrate worthless, or would it have a good contribution?


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## Dominic (3 Jan 2014)

or in other words,

if i covered the bottom of my tank with JI no3, and bought 5.8litres of tetra plant complete, and 2.5 litres of tropica plant growth substrate,

I would need 16 litres of tetra plant complete or tropica plant growth substrate, in total, for a sufficient covering

So that would mean i had roughly 8 litres of substrate.

If i sprinkled this over the JI NO3, would it make much effect?

If that made any sense?


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## Iain Sutherland (3 Jan 2014)

you should be able to find tropica substrate in pets@home, then top with what ever you like.
if not its available from a few of the sponsors on here.


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## Dominic (4 Jan 2014)

Okay thanks,
What i'm trying to get across is, i would need 10 bags of the tropica plant stuff to fill my tank correctly, which works out to be 70 quid,

So if i used 2cm or so of JI No3 for like 5-10 quid, and then bought 3 or 4 bags of the tropica stuff, and sprinkled the tropica stuff over the JI No3, would it be worth buying the tropica stuff or not?


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## Iain Sutherland (4 Jan 2014)

the tropica plant growth substrate system is a bottom layer, you just need a few cm then top with gravel of your choice 
otherwise just use JI No3 topped how you like.  I think the advantage of tropica is that it also has a high CEC (absorbs nutrients from the water to release later) and that the larger pieces allow water movement under the sand/gravel.  
You could always use JI No3 with some small alfagrog mixed in which may do almost the same thing, but im guessing here ??


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## Henry (4 Jan 2014)

If you're willing to pay £70, go for the Tropica.

Personally, I don't think you'll go far wrong with the soil with moler clay cap. If you add some slow release ferts and maybe some wet clay/peat in too, you'll be onto a winner. I've had great success with the B&Q basic compost in the orange and white bag (about £2).


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## greenink (4 Jan 2014)

Just go for fine grain molar clay and a layer of slow release fertiliser granules underneath

= 

Ada aqua soil, pretty much, at 10% of the cost


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## Dominic (4 Jan 2014)

Haha nah i dont want to spend 70 quid on substrate haha  henry what are slow release ferts? can you give me an example please? 

And can you buy the clay from craft stores? its the red stuff right? What are the benefits of clay? and is peat like sphagnum moss etc? 
Do i just place a layer of clay/peat over the soil or mix it with the soil? 

Does this mean you guys think it would be worthless if i sprinkled the 7l or so of tropica over the soil substrate and then capping it with moler clay?


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## Henry (4 Jan 2014)

Miracle Gro do slow release fert granules, or you can use Osmocote, it's all the same. 
Yes you can use the red clay from craft stores, and just add it to the soil.

I think adding Tropica stuff to it would just be an expensive way to hedge your bets. I'm neither encouraging or discouraging you to use it, however, since I'm sure plenty of people have had success with it. Cryptic


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## greenink (5 Jan 2014)

Have a look in my matchstick brink or bookcase tank journals - both have links to molar clay and Osmocote places and give you a sense of pros and cons!


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## Andy Thurston (5 Jan 2014)

About using clay. Don't use self drying clay and if you can get hold of powdered clay its easier to mix with the john ines. I didn't bother in the end it got capped with stratum. 6 months later plants are still growing like crazy except when we let co2 run out


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## Henry (5 Jan 2014)

You can also use the natural clumping cat litter from Pets At Home. Check the packet for "bentonite clay".


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## Michael W (5 Jan 2014)

Hi guys,

I believe soil based substrates by themselves also have a high CEC which means a layer of capped gravel over the soil will still work out as there should be enough room for poo/nutrients to reach in through the gaps left by gravel. This means that the JI2 should work out fine and cost would stay low.


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## greenink (5 Jan 2014)

Soil capped is v difficult & messy if you ever want to move things around. 

Moler clay by far best option if on a budget. The fine grain version grows carpet plants like HC fine.


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## Henry (5 Jan 2014)

greenink said:


> Soil capped is v difficult & messy if you ever want to move things around.
> 
> Moler clay by far best option if on a budget. The fine grain version grows carpet plants like HC fine.


 

A thin layer of soil under the moler clay shouldn't cause too many problems. A ratio of around 1:5 soil to clay works fine and prevents excessive mess.


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## Dominic (5 Jan 2014)

Okay thanks guys, would the clumping cat litter be the same as any clay that you find in craft stores? And what do i do, mix it with the soil, moisten the soil, put into tank, then cap? The clumping cat litter would be a good idea as i work at pets at home and get discounts  

Is it okay to use any osmocote or are there particular types you can and cant use? 

Also, how much clumping cat litter/clay/osmocote would i need? Say i'm using 30 litres of soil, how much would i need to mix with it? 

Thanks


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## Henry (5 Jan 2014)

The clumping cat litter is a different type of clay to the red craft shop stuff, probably containing a different mix of minerals. Essentially though, it's a cheap supplement to the soil, in either form.
You can either add the dry granules to the soil and mix when in the tank, or wet it, and add as clumps to the soil.
The best method is to moisten the soil before you cap it, that way there will be no shift in the substrate when you add the water.

Osmocote and Miracle Gro Slow Release are tried and tested, but other types are likely to be the same.

Clay wise, a thin scattering is about right, same with the Osmocote.


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## Henry (5 Jan 2014)

The clumping cat litter is a different type of clay to the red craft shop stuff, probably containing a different mix of minerals. Essentially though, it's a cheap supplement to the soil, in either form.
You can either add the dry granules to the soil and mix when in the tank, or wet it, and add as clumps to the soil.
The best method is to moisten the soil before you cap it, that way there will be no shift in the substrate when you add the water.

Osmocote and Miracle Gro Slow Release are tried and tested, but other types are likely to be the same.

Clay wise, a thin scattering is about right, same with the Osmocote.


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## Dominic (5 Jan 2014)

Okay thanks, so should i mix the osmocote and clumping clay with the soil or layer them on top?
if so, what do you think of this-

1st layer- 2cm or so of soil

2nd layer- a scattering of osmocote and clumping cat litter.

3rd layer- Capped with 2-3cm of moler clay


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## Henry (5 Jan 2014)

I'd put the osmocote and clay on the bottom layer to reduce mess when you uproot stuff. There's no need to overthink it, just make sure the moler clay layer is adequately deep to contain the soil etc.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Jan 2014)

Sounds unnecessarily complicated to me. Alternatively you could check out the tutorials and in particular the one linked below at the bottom of the post.
There is no reason why you can't get good results with a soil substrate capped with sand or gravel regardless of energy level...and for just a few bucks.
I have with great success and so has Plutonow...Check his tank out here My garden 250l - M.Pluta | UK Aquatic Plant Society.
If you're worried about mess use a gravel tidy or soil retainer between the soil and capping substrate...it's all in the tutorial.


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## greenink (6 Jan 2014)

It's non-clumping you want! There's a whole thread on the forum about car litter somewhere about a hundred pages long!


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## chazbaz (10 Jan 2014)

Hi folks, after many years away from fish keeping  I have taken the first step and now on order from maidenhead aquatics is there oak wine aquarium vax027 160x45  320 ltr  with the heating  efx 400 filter  2xt5 lights, the intention being to have a dutch style aquacape  community tank.
I am not sure that is correct termanology for a well planted tank but feel sure someone will put me right, could a member please help a confused newbie to the correct substrate  for planted tank as I had intended to use  jbl aquabasis plus with a topping of jbl sansibar which I have been told is best for the corydoras I intend having,			   but after reading comments on this forum it seems to be a bad choice as the topping causes substrate to stagnate due to lack of flow.
also  use of catty litter  mixed into substrate  oh nearly forgot   osmocote use  is this the garden centre additive for house plants etc if so how do you apply it to substrate.
so much to learn so much to mess up so easily.
any members in area of biggin hill /bromley area 
many thanks in advance and thank you for taking time to read my first post .

   Charlie.


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