# IAPLC 2016 rankings



## rebel (11 Aug 2016)

Hi everyone, 

I've been thinking about how they do the rankings in IAPLC. With Amano gone, would it be the same? How will the competition evolve in the future? Who will take Amano's place as the creative director of the franchise?

Have you studied what it takes to be ranked highly? Can you reverse engineer some of the scapes?

IMHO nanos and Dutch won't be ranked highly. I am no expert on the subject however.

Please discuss.


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## Nelson (11 Aug 2016)

Has any tank less than 120cm ever won ?.
Should have different size categories.
I've entered twice before,but probably won't again.
Nothing to do with my lack of scaping skill of course .


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## ShawnMac (11 Aug 2016)

Good questions. 

I hope we see a move away from the Diorama style. I suppose its a personal taste thing, but they've begun to look so contrived; like bad special effects in a movie. I'd also like to see a greater emphasis on the use of plants and varieties, much of the contest has leaned heavily on hardscape and few plant species. Maybe this is an issue with scoring or with the styles that do well. To that point, you are right, dutch scapes do not score well. To some extent I understand why, they do not show off much of a natural environment with their heavily manicured look. They also lack a sense of depth and scale you can achieve with other style layouts. Nanos suffer as well, but for different reasons. While you can achieve great sense of depth or scale, you are greatly limited on plant selection in order to achieve it so there are losses to the overall look in that regard. I think the ideal scape is a 120 cm. Much bigger and you get a big look because its a big tank...more easily achieved. Smaller and you lose some options or flexibility to achieve various effects or looks which hurt the scoring.  

Who will take Amano's place? Can anyone? I'm not sure we will see someone rise to take his place or try to fill his shoes. We may see more of an IAPLC or ADA run by committee with the goal of continuing Mr. Amano's vision. I'm far from knowledgeable in this so this is just a guess...

As far as reverse engineering...I think if you wanted the look in your home you can do so to some extent. Acquiring the hardscape and understanding some of the skills required to assemble it in the ways they do would be some of the most difficult parts. If you can grow plants well that is. 

We have a great interview with Steven Chong of the Tokyo Aquascaping Union coming up in The Aquascaping Podcast, where he talks about competition focused Aquascaping. There is a big difference in the mindset and approach as opposed to most of us hobbyists who tend to make scapes we like or want in our living room and then submit to a contest if we feel it is good enough and the competitive contest focused aquascaper whose goal is to create a winning layout. Stay tuned...should be up in a couple weeks


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## alto (11 Aug 2016)

ShawnMac said:


> I hope we see a move away from the Diorama style. I suppose its a personal taste thing, but they've begun to look *so contrived*; like bad special effects in a movie. I'd also like to see a greater emphasis on the use of plants and varieties, much of the contest has leaned heavily on hardscape and few plant species.


my thoughts as well - I just don't see the point in a PLANT contest of stone + moss having such an (enduring) elevated standing ......


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## Alexander Belchenko (11 Aug 2016)

Nice said Shawn.


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## PARAGUAY (11 Aug 2016)

Well its Amanos nature aquarium methods -a great nature aquarium can have lots of planting or very little lots of hardscape or hardly any and some of the top entries lean towards the Dutch style.Its down to the judges some entries are so good it always divides opinion.


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## Tim Harrison (11 Aug 2016)

ShawnMac said:


> Good questions. I hope we see a move away from the Diorama style.



My sentiments exactly, and they have been for a while...unfortunately what happens in the IAPLC eventually seems to get adopted by the AGA as well...
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/iaplc-top-27.29450/
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-iaplc-judging-criteria-your-thoughts-please.34205/
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/aquascape-awards.36972/


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## Dantrasy (12 Aug 2016)

One could argue that Fukada is the new Amano. He won this year and last year. And has always ranked very high, I think he came second twice in previous years. 

Just google image search 'Fukada aquascape'. There's pics to be found of his aquascaping room too. 

Congratz to all the UKAPS members who entered! 

Now is a very good time to start building a new scape! Aim high!


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## rebel (12 Aug 2016)

Dantrasy said:


> One could argue that Fukada is the new Amano. He won this year and last year. And has always ranked very high, I think he came second twice in previous years.
> 
> Just google image search 'Fukada aquascape'. There's pics to be found of his aquascaping room too.
> 
> ...


He certainly looks mature and wise. Too bad they don't get involved with us mortals in the forums...


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## rebel (12 Aug 2016)

Dantrasy said:


> Now is a very good time to start building a new scape! Aim high!


Absolutely agree! I am taking a positive attitude, even if the judging is biased etc (which it has to be)


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## rebel (12 Aug 2016)

ShawnMac said:


> Good questions.
> 
> I hope we see a move away from the Diorama style. I suppose its a personal taste thing, but they've begun to look so contrived; like bad special effects in a movie. I'd also like to see a greater emphasis on the use of plants and varieties, much of the contest has leaned heavily on hardscape and few plant species. Maybe this is an issue with scoring or with the styles that do well. To that point, you are right, dutch scapes do not score well. To some extent I understand why, they do not show off much of a natural environment with their heavily manicured look. They also lack a sense of depth and scale you can achieve with other style layouts. Nanos suffer as well, but for different reasons. While you can achieve great sense of depth or scale, you are greatly limited on plant selection in order to achieve it so there are losses to the overall look in that regard. I think the ideal scape is a 120 cm. Much bigger and you get a big look because its a big tank...more easily achieved. Smaller and you lose some options or flexibility to achieve various effects or looks which hurt the scoring.
> 
> ...




Thanks Shawn.

I quite like the dioramas but I agree some are looking very contrived. They must take alot of effort to trim that moss just the way you need!!

The moss predominant scapes excite me because I find that it's easy to grow moss. I find stems a little more challenging. 

It would be sad if the competitions all copied ADA. It would be great to have individuality.


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## Tim Harrison (12 Aug 2016)

Dantrasy said:


> One could argue that Fukada is the new Amano.


He's obviously an amazing visual artist...but most of his scapes are too dioramic and too far removed from the original Naturescape concept for my tastes.


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## ShawnMac (12 Aug 2016)

Tim Harrison said:


> He's obviously an amazing visual artist...but most of his scapes are too dioramic and too far removed from the original Naturescape concept for my tastes.



I agree. I think the thing about dioramas is that they are so very formulaic. While very technically challenging, they do not seem to have the "soul" of Amano's nature aquarium. Now, while I fully confess to being a total ADA fanboy, all scapes don't have to emulate something from Amano, but a scape that different people can look at and get different feelings or ideas about what it represents can be powerful. Even many of Amano's best Iwagumi's could have been thought to be a submerged landscape or emerged...a home for fish...or for birds...the best scapes confuse these ideas and leave the viewer to decide while purposefully directing their gaze and focus. The scaper manipulates what the viewer sees and how they look at it, but leave enough ambiguity as to not eliminate various interpretations or perceptions by cornering the viewer. 

But as with all art...its really in what the viewer likes or thinks is art. It cannot be defined or boxed in...I think we will see trends rise and fall. The contests tend to push this.

I was just wondering...but when is the last time you saw a scape with a cryptocoryne species win? This was one of Amano's favorite plants.


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## alto (12 Aug 2016)

Dantrasy said:


> One could argue that Fukada is the new Amano


In one interview he states that the hardscape was developed  over several months, then plants added & grown in over 2 months (scape was then photo ready etc) ... this seems so far away from Amano's original concepts that Nature aquaria should develop & change over time


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## Nelson (12 Aug 2016)

Luckily, for me,I like all styles. Nature,diorama,Dutch or just planted.
It doe's seem that diorama is taking over though.
Strange when ADA is really about nature !.


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## LondonDragon (18 Aug 2016)

It's becoming a hardscape and moss contest!


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## Tim Harrison (18 Aug 2016)

It's almost more like model railway building...I keep expecting to see the 2:30 to Clacton steaming through half of them...


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## zozo (19 Aug 2016)

Tim Harrison said:


> It's almost more like model railway building...I keep expecting to see the 2:30 to Clacton steaming through half of them...


Excactly my thought as well, always waiting for the train or trying to find the little hunter model figure shooting the critters flying around.

A few dozens of posts ago, i called it Bob Ross aquariums..  And a lot with "Happy little accidents"...  Tho not my thing, dunno what else to think of it and a skill i will never master.. Only can highly respect those people who can it truely is an art form.. 

Usualy the most beautifull and highest ranked nature style scapes around are from people living next door to the jungle or forest and see it every day. Like Amano he was a photographer/documentarist traveling the world from jungle to jungle observing and sucking in nature sceneries like oatmeal for breakfast. That was his job and his work, which obviously reflected in his later aquascapes and he just manicured it into perfection. Probably raised with bonsai siccors in his hand this man was blessed with the best of both worlds. For someone from another culture not accommodated with this luxery and using only pictures and imagination it will be much harder to replicate. I think in this are very often the little details making the high ranks. Even with the rather distracting less is more phylosophy taken in account, there still is lot of tiny detail in the right place making it or braking it. And i guess that's the most difficult part, create a lot of interesting accurate natural details with a less is more approach. 

In a way metaphoricaly speaking.. The closer you are to nature, the more natural this will come to you.

Hence if you are practicaly born smack dab in the middle, you've a step ahead. Then it's only natural that things come to you, without realy thinking about it that much.  

That's what i always try to keep in mind as well.. I do not only look at the scape, i also look at the scapers origine.


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## Tim Harrison (19 Aug 2016)

Good point Marcel you may very well be on to something there. The geography of a place and how people interact with it has a massive influence on culture and art.


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## zozo (19 Aug 2016)

Well if you look at the 2015 rankings, the first 10 places where all Japan, China, Brazil and one mysterious lost soul from france..  The last one is the most interest to me, this realy stands out, tho France also has very large wild parks and huge mountain sceneries to grab also. But when comming to horticulture, this practicaly is invented in China and Japan and are countries or regions having all to offer, from (sub) tropical to snowy mountains etc.. See the whole contenders list and count the numbers of contestants comming from tropical regions, i didn't but just a glance already is enough to see it's the majority.. There the big cities are somewhat build at the jungles edge.. I never saw a jungle in my life, only what Walt Disney and David Attenborough showed me on a flat screen. For the rest i have to get my inspiration from between the pavement and the little forest next to my door. For me it's only a dream to take it up against a hurd of competition living in a goldmine..


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## Manuel Arias (19 Aug 2016)

Hi there,



rebel said:


> With Amano gone, would it be the same?



No, it will not be the same, and you can see some bad symptoms of that all around. To start with, ADA has less online presence than in the past, precisely because they are not producing videos showing Takashi Amano doing this or that. Secondly, it is just not ADA...it is just Mr. Amano had an energy born from a passion that I have still to see in anyone else in the hobby...perhaps Fukada in terms of creation (not in other aspects), but not many others. Reason why is because the hobby has become a bit egotistical in my point of view, and if you are not mainstream, then you are squared. Amano put the Nature Aquarium concept as central and fundamental core of his work. Not only artistically speaking, but also in terms of ADA. He was obsessed in trying to transmit his ideas to the community, and showing people how to success. Nowadays, aquascapers are divided, as well pointed out Shawn, between those who have just fun from it (most people) and those who want to be internationally acknowledged by their works or just become professionals. The first group are the real hobbyist, and the ones who are "consumers" of the products and keep the business going on. The second ones are more motivated by personal reasons than for the hobby, so they are far away from the other people. This difference is dangerous, because many of those who should be interested in promote the hobby are in the second group. This lack of connection between both worlds is what Amano was able to solve, because he impulsed both sides. People who appeared after in the hobby are mostly aligned in one or the other category. Sad, but true.



rebel said:


> How will the competition evolve in the future?



Difficult to say. The competition was intended to promote the hobby, not to create an elite. Culturally speaking, the difference can be subtle when you consider Japanese culture or European culture. In Japan, perfection is something reached by individuals based in sharpening personal skills up to a maximum. This showed off in the ruling criteria of the IAPLC. Europe considers more valuable the team working and the community as unity of success, what explains the appearance of aquascaping groups of people working together to enter in the IAPLC (which, being honest, it is just in the edge of the rules of the contest). My concern now is the contest could be affected by a lobby culture now onwards, which changing criteria based in external pressures or depending on the fashion intended to be promoted. This was already happening into the IAPLC before 2014, reason why they decided to change the ruling criteria. It is easy to see this from some comments of the late Amano in 2015, pointing out towards this fact. In my opinion, if they stick to the new criteria, things will be in track. If start to see a bit "random changes", then this can be a bad signal. However, the best way to have a good IAPLC is by participating into it.



rebel said:


> Who will take Amano's place as the creative director of the franchise



At the moment, I did not hear of anyone. And I doubt they will put someone else there, at the moment. The shadow of Amano is very large, and he will eclipse any new person trying to match his role. This is what happens when you create a whole idea, company and contest around a single person: the weight of that person is so large that, once is not there, there is no way to cover the gap in a long time.



rebel said:


> Have you studied what it takes to be ranked highly? Can you reverse engineer some of the scapes?



To study a pre-made work, you need to know in first place the techniques in which is based, or having the chance to see a step-by-step process. Otherwise, it is very difficult. For example, Mr. Fukada used his own driftwood last year. In his interview as winner that ADA did after the IAPLC Party, he mentioned that the most challenging part was "to build" the driftwood from pieces of wood, thin and flexible enough for this purpose. He, obviously, is not mentioned at all how to do it, or what kind of wood he used. Nonetheless, looking at the job, you can see that they are not single pieces but a composition of branches linked together by hand. This is also part of the thing of the two groups of aquascapers, as the "elite" one tends to hide critical information to avoid being mimicked. They have the right to do so, no doubt, but meanwhile hobbyist do not care to share and help everybody to do better works, the other group want to be on top, and one way to be on top is by having knowledge others do not have. 



Nelson said:


> Has any tank less than 120cm ever won ?.
> Should have different size categories.
> I've entered twice before,but probably won't again.



Well, Nelson, that is true. Practically nothing below 120cms has a chance to win. But I have seen many works below that ranked in the top 100. And this is important, because Karen Randall (judge in IAPLC) mentioned recently that judges only see the top 100 works. The rest of them, they do not know how they are scored or by whom. This is understandable, as no one in his mind will ask judges to go throughout more than 2000 works and give scores with 6 categories and sub-levels to all of them. So ADA makes a pre-screening with criteria that no one knows if it is the same one. It is their contest, though, so the way in which they do it must be respected. If you do not agree, do not take part on it, of course. Regarding the different categories, it could make some sense, as it is true that different tank sizes have significant differences in terms of aquascaping. Putting the whole lot all together seems unfair. However, I do not agree that, because of that, one should not participate. In fact, the way to get ADA applying such a change passes by people submitting tanks of different sizes and with many participation. If the contest grows enough, they will be forced to split into categories. 



ShawnMac said:


> I hope we see a move away from the Diorama style. I suppose its a personal taste thing, but they've begun to look so contrived; like bad special effects in a movie. I'd also like to see a greater emphasis on the use of plants and varieties, much of the contest has leaned heavily on hardscape and few plant species. Maybe this is an issue with scoring or with the styles that do well.



There has been lot of whinning on social media last weeks, precisely because of this. People applied but not read the new rules, and good aquascapes have been put down the hill of classification. And the reason is precisely this one: The trend to make aquatic diorams, when the IAPLC is about Nature Aquariums. The concept is different, and in fact, created more in Europe (just pay a look of EAPLC results of last years). In the IAPLC, many participants of last years, mainly from Europe and America, have tended towards hardscaping with mosses or plants with very low demand or maintenance. So working hard in the "permanent component" and much less in the "variable" component, and the variable one is the really difficult one. A good hardscape can be obtained by working it for long time and studying winner works, but keeping large masses of plants healthy and balanced with the hardscape...that is matter of stars. There are very good works in terms of composition and visual effect but: a) Nothing related to recreate the natural environment of fishes; b) Stem plants have been mopped out of these scapes. In my opinion, Nature Aquarium does not consist in replicating land scenarios under water and planting should be predominant. I think this is what has been punishing the score of many people...but I am glad of this change, because the contest was drifting in the wrong direction. The change of evaluation criteria has helped to correct this, but community of participants needs some learning in order to adapt to it. The idea of dioramas has been an evolution of the concept of Iwagumi aquariums, which has been misinterpreted somehow, and extended in a line that does not match the original idea. 



Dantrasy said:


> One could argue that Fukada is the new Amano. He won this year and last year. And has always ranked very high, I think he came second twice in previous years.



No, I do not think so. Do not misinterpret me. I do not refer to the work he does. He is fantastically good, in his techiques. As said Tom, he is also too fan of dioram-style, which is far from NA. However, he is not the person people will follow. He is quite shy and avoids being too visible. He is also not interested in spreading knowledge but to master the hobby. This is a large difference between them. Amano was interested in spreading the hobby and master it and at the same time, bringing to light to people also doing fantastic jobs into this. Amano was a very outgoing person, full of ideas and always aiming to bring new things. He was not only creative in the hobby but in everything else he was doing. 100% passion in life. Mr. Fukada lacks of these skills. Perhaps in a couple of decades, once the shadow of Amano is more in the past than in the future...



alto said:


> In one interview he states that the hardscape was developed  over several months, then plants added & grown in over 2 months (scape was then photo ready etc) ... this seems so far away from Amano's original concepts that Nature aquaria should develop & change over time



Totally true, alto. This is the problems of dioramas...that you need to preserve the scene static. Growing plants tend to become this difficult, reason why diorama-style tanks are using low growing plants or mosses. But not dounb they are not NA concept, even if they can be fantastic works. In Fukada this is present, but it is not so evident than in other cases, so this is also a reason why Fukada does not fit in the shoes of Amano.



LondonDragon said:


> It's becoming a hardscape and moss contest!



Sadly yes, but this year seems that extensive use of mosses have been punished, so it seems there are some corrective measures on it.



zozo said:


> Well if you look at the 2015 rankings, the first 10 places where all Japan, China, Brazil and one mysterious lost soul from france..



Being IAPLC the ADA contest, it is worth to mention that Mr. Fukada was the first Japanese in winning it. I agree there is a cultural component in the way people scape the aquariums. In fact, the environment is everything. Amano, in his biography, makes this clear: he always tried to mimic the aquatic environments of his childhood, which I can tell you, there is nothing similar in most of our countries. Without such influence, it is clear that western people have more difficulties to build NA aquariums with success. Nonetheless, as anything that is cultural, it can be shaped by open minds. 

Cheers,

Manuel


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

Manuel, quite interesting post.



Manuel Arias said:


> Being IAPLC the ADA contest, it is worth to mention that Mr. Fukada was the first Japanese in winning it.



Maybe I misundestand you but according to http://en.iaplc.com/about/gp_works.html first 3 years of contest (2001-2003) had Japan winners.


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## Manuel Arias (19 Aug 2016)

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Maybe I misundestand you but according to http://en.iaplc.com/about/gp_works.html first 3 years of contest (2001-2003) had Japan winners.



No, you are right. They were Japanese. My mistake. I obtained such information from other site, which was incorrect. Thanks for pointing out that. 

Cheers,
Manuel


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

Well, looking at those grand prix photos I could see something like hyperstars jump in the level of scaping: somewhere around 2004-2006 - works changed from pure NA to what we see today in majority of scapes. So maybe calling Fukada first Japanese grand prix of modern times is not far from true. Probably that was the time when contest became popular and more people knew about it.

Also I agree with Manuel about dividing between hobbyists and pros. I can see that "pro" rarely can show their works till official NA Party, even though they are out of top 100. That's probably OK, but more relaxed hobbyist just don't really bother with this.


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## zozo (19 Aug 2016)

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Manuel, quite interesting post.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I misundestand you but according to http://en.iaplc.com/about/gp_works.html first 3 years of contest (2001-2003) had Japan winners.



Yes and now look at the pics from that link and the scaper geographical location. A few of them are almost obvious, if you had to guess you probably wont be far of with most of them.




Grégoire Wolinski (FRANCE)??




Pavel Bautin (RUSSIA)??
https://www.google.nl/search?q=russ...hWpBcAKHXXmCSQQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=6t5udoVEtLK0XM:

Another very nice one of Grégoire




Seen El Torcal next door maybe??


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

Sorry, I did not looked for proper English site with old IAPLC works, but maybe you will find interesting this collection on Russian speaking site - top 27 works of 2001-2010. There isn't much text, so you can focus on photos (often in quite bad quality). I can only remark that quality of work, and photos are much improved during last 10-15 years.


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

I remember remark (Amano?) about Bautin's work - it's quite Russian theme. This is what Marcel talked about landscape behind your door.


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## zozo (19 Aug 2016)

Alexander Belchenko said:


> landscape behind your door.


Which is burned onto your retina, that's what makes them so flawless and beautifull.


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

zozo said:


> Which is burned onto your retina, that's what makes them so flawless and beautifull.



Yep, and that's why I also like very much very tiny "wonders" I can see around pavement when I walk by. Shameless plug - this was very striking moment for me - to see such colorful weeds:

Weed on the road by Alexander, on Flickr

Of course I saw in such weed something from scape I've never done.


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## zozo (19 Aug 2016)

Alexander Belchenko said:


> Yep, and that's why I also like very much very tiny "wonders" I can see around pavement when I walk by. Shameless plug - this was very striking moment for me - to see such colorful weeds:
> 
> Weed on the road by Alexander, on Flickr
> 
> Of course I saw in such weed something from scape I've never done.



That's the reason why i don't like to weed the pavement from my back yard.. Realy stunning picture btw, indeed a typical island scape surounded by sand..  
This pic also confirmes again to me the average "Smokers are pigs".. Tho i'm a (sigar) smoker myself...  No pun intended?  It actualy does ask for one.. Doesn't it..


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## Alexander Belchenko (19 Aug 2016)

Yep.


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## Sweded (24 Aug 2016)

I have to disagree about everyone shitting on the diorama type scapes per say. Sure the ones that look like miniature landscapes above water, especially the ones with miniature tree imitations looks a bit out of place in an aquarium, as out of place as miniature divers and plastic skulls. 
However take the 2015 winner tank. That is a true masterpiece in proportions, lines and natural beauty of wood, plants and stones. For sure the best scape I ever seen. Maybe a bit formulaic and contrived at the back of the tank with the upright wood in a unison line but that is a small nitpick. 
It was the high bar that showed what's possible to achieve. When art meets nature.The amount of time he spent on that driftwood has to be significant. 
Looking forward seeing the top 10 this year, especially video. The level will be extremely high I suspect. Not all that surprising seeing Fukada on top again.


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## Doubu (24 Aug 2016)

Sweded said:


> I have to disagree about everyone shitting on the diorama type scapes per say. Sure the ones that look like miniature landscapes above water, especially the ones with miniature tree imitations looks a bit out of place in an aquarium, as out of place as miniature divers and plastic skulls.
> However take the 2015 winner tank. That is a true masterpiece in proportions, lines and natural beauty of wood, plants and stones. For sure the best scape I ever seen. Maybe a bit formulaic and contrived at the back of the tank with the upright wood in a unison line but that is a small nitpick.
> It was the high bar that showed what's possible to achieve. When art meets nature.The amount of time he spent on that driftwood has to be significant.
> Looking forward seeing the top 10 this year, especially video. The level will be extremely high I suspect. Not all that surprising seeing Fukada on top again.



"When art meets nature" indeed. 

The only thing that boggles me is how they maintain the amount of moss. Every time I trim the moss it gets EVERYWHERE, once it's everywhere, it's EVERYWHERE. How do they keep the separation so clean?! Either they spent huge amounts of time cleaning or they have a special way of trimming where they pick up all the bits somehow... If someone knows, please enlighten me haha.


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## ShawnMac (24 Aug 2016)

Doubu said:


> "When art meets nature" indeed.
> 
> The only thing that boggles me is how they maintain the amount of moss. Every time I trim the moss it gets EVERYWHERE, once it's everywhere, it's EVERYWHERE. How do they keep the separation so clean?! Either they spent huge amounts of time cleaning or they have a special way of trimming where they pick up all the bits somehow... If someone knows, please enlighten me haha.


Trim and siphon simultaneously so the cuttings don't float around. Even then many of these scapes are young, less than a year many less than 6 months, so they do not have to contend with the continuous creep and invasion of some plants. 

sent from tapatalk on my phone so auto correct and other errors are bound to happen


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## Sweded (24 Aug 2016)

Doubu said:


> "When art meets nature" indeed.
> 
> The only thing that boggles me is how they maintain the amount of moss. Every time I trim the moss it gets EVERYWHERE, once it's everywhere, it's EVERYWHERE. How do they keep the separation so clean?! Either they spent huge amounts of time cleaning or they have a special way of trimming where they pick up all the bits somehow... If someone knows, please enlighten me haha.



You attach a hose to a scissor so when you trim the moss with the scissor you can easily suck up the leftover moss with the hose.


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## Doubu (24 Aug 2016)

Sweded said:


> You attach a hose to a scissor so when you trim the moss with the scissor you can easily suck up the leftover moss with the hose.




Oooooo - that is a fantastic idea. But... I feel like I would drain all the water so quickly... and effectively I'd be doing like 75% WC. I guess this is where a team effort makes sense in which you have a buddy to help catch all the floating pieces away with a net or something.


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## ShawnMac (24 Aug 2016)

Doubu said:


> Oooooo - that is a fantastic idea. But... I feel like I would drain all the water so quickly... and effectively I'd be doing like 75% WC. I guess this is where a team effort makes sense in which you have a buddy to help catch all the floating pieces away with a net or something.


You could also use a ball valve on the tubing to make it siphon more slowly


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## alto (25 Aug 2016)

Doubu said:


> and effectively I'd be doing like 75% WC.


you mean _everyone_ isn't doing 75% water changes  




If you're uncomfortable with this degree of water change, just run your syphon to a non-overflowing bucket  (does Corallife still make "the screamer" ) & return water to the tank (pouring through a brine shrimp net in order to sieve out the fine trim)


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## stu_ (25 Aug 2016)

Using air line hose works IME without emptying your tank


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