# A bit of help please guys with BBA, C02 and ferts



## Keetchy (21 Jan 2022)

So my tank was doing really well until I decided to add a second light to get more coverage over the whole tank. Since then I've had an outbreak of what I think is BBA (black hair on plants and rocks). The plants that had BBA was Buces, ferns and MC. When I added the extra light, I increased the C02 but forgot to increase the ferts. Which I'm hoping is the reason for all of this.

Here is a pic of the MC which I think has BBA on it








The Tenellum has had brown leaves and see-through leaves so I'm guessing they're dieing leaves.

Also the 53B is starting to get red on some of the leaves 







Here are a few pics of the other plants if anyone can see any other deficiencies










So I have just finished a big WC and have scrubbed all rocks and cut out all leaves with BBA, or as much as I could anyway 




I still have both lights fitted but have elevated them above the tank by about 6 inches




Now the help I need from you guys is.....
1 - What has caused the BBA? Is it because I increased light intensity and C02 but not the ferts? Or have I got another issue in the tank?

2 - At the moment I have C02 switched off until I know what I'm doing. With the 2 lights now in their higher positions, shall I now start introducing C02 slowly until I have a lime green colour on DC and then start ferting? Or start ferting at the same time I start C02 back up?

Thanks guys, I really wanna save the tank and not throw in the towel


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## Keetchy (21 Jan 2022)

Am I right in thinking I can start adding C02 and ferts again but just act as if I've just started the tank up again. So do daily WCs while the plants adjust to the new intensity of light, C02 and ferts


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## Oldguy (22 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> So my tank was doing really well until I decided to add a second light to get more coverage over the whole tank.


From what you have said it could well be that the extra light is the problem. Put the CO2 back on. BBA is in most cases a result of unbalanced light to C02/circulation. Unfortunately getting rid of BBA is an other matter.
Raising your lights is a good start.
A generous helping of ferts can do no harm and hopefully your plants will out grow the problem, especially with careful removal of dead/dying/BBA coated plant material.

All best wishes for your tanks return to health and glory.


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

Oldguy said:


> From what you have said it could well be that the extra light is the problem. Put the CO2 back on. BBA is in most cases a result of unbalanced light to C02/circulation. Unfortunately getting rid of BBA is an other matter.
> Raising your lights is a good start.
> A generous helping of ferts can do no harm and hopefully your plants will out grow the problem, especially with careful removal of dead/dying/BBA coated plant material.
> 
> All best wishes for your tanks return to health and glory.


Thanks bud. So C02 is on and is giving a lime green colour on the DC from lights on to lights off and I am ferting again. Also doing daily to every other day WCs. Scrubbing the rocks regularly and removing any leaves I see with BBA on them. Fingers crossed


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## GHNelson (24 Jan 2022)

Looks like filamentous algae.
Be careful you don't gas the fish!
Use some of that B53 as a floating plant.








						Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!
					

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new,....it has benefits especially for a new set - up. I try and cover at least 50% of the water surface minimum.  1. Improves water...



					www.ukaps.org
				



hoggie


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

GHNelson said:


> Looks like filamentous algae.
> Be careful you don't gas the fish!
> Use some of that B53 as a floating plant.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm keeping a close eye on the fish. The DC has been a lime green for couple of days now from lights on to lights off so I think I got that OK now, so no need to adjust it anymore.

I could buy a bunch of floating plants if you think that will help


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## arcturus (24 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> Now the help I need from you guys is.....
> 1 - What has caused the BBA?


It does not look like BBA but green thread/filamentous algae.


Keetchy said:


> Is it because I increased light intensity and C02 but not the ferts? Or have I got another issue in the tank?


This is a common problem. More light intensity will promote plant (and algae) photosynthesis. So, the plants will need more CO2 and the essential nutrients to grow. If these are lacking then the plants will start struggling, which can trigger algae. 



Keetchy said:


> 2 - At the moment I have C02 switched off until I know what I'm doing. With the 2 lights now in their higher positions, shall I now start introducing C02 slowly until I have a lime green colour on DC and then start ferting? Or start ferting at the same time I start C02 back up?



To do at once
Reduce light intensity and overall light period to say 4-5 hours.
Add floating plants. These will help controlling the algae and also helping blocking the extra light. Floating plants consume a lot of nutrients since they are not limited by dissolved CO2 levels in the water, so adjust fertilizers accordingly.
Resume CO2 to the levels you had before. Do not increase CO2 levels. 
Adjust/increase the fertilizers (macro + micro).
Increase water changes, clean the algae, remove affected leaves.

Wait...
After the algae are under control, then slowly increase the photoperiod and slowly ramp up the lights. You will eventually reach a point where plants will start showing deficiencies again. Then you need to decide if you want to adjust the lights or increase fertilization levels... it depends on your goals.


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> It does not look like BBA but green thread/filamentous algae.
> 
> This is a common problem. More light intensity will promote plant (and algae) photosynthesis. So, the plants will need more CO2 and the essential nutrients to grow. If these are lacking then the plants will start struggling, which can trigger algae.
> 
> ...


OK great. Thanks man. I can't adjust the intensity of the lights but I have reduced hours from 6 hours to 5. Since the issue I've got C02 back on to where it was which is giving me a lime green on the DC from lights on to lights off. I am still ferting the same I was before the issue but am now starting to see deficiencies in the Anubias and Palustris. So I'm guessing I will need to increase the ferts at some point, but probably not until the algae is under control right? I am doing daily, if not daily then every other day 50% WCs with cutting algae leaves off and scrubbing the wood and rocks.


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

@arcturus  here's more pics of the algae


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## arcturus (24 Jan 2022)

You need to adjust the the ferts to start controlling the algae. Plants and algae use the same energy sources and nutrients, but algae are more efficient. So, plants will only have the upper edge if they are healthy. 

Look at some tips on how to address this <here> and <here>. However, it seems that the majority of your plants is ok. So, just adjust the ferts, reduce lights, remove the algae and affected leaves. If the problem persists you can do a blackout.


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## Hufsa (24 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> here's more pics of the algae


Im seeing 90% staghorn in those pics


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> You need to adjust the the ferts to start controlling the algae. Plants and algae use the same energy sources and nutrients, but algae are more efficient. So, plants will only have the upper edge if they are healthy.
> 
> Look at some tips on how to address this <here> and <here>. However, it seems that the majority of your plants is ok. So, just adjust the ferts, reduce lights, remove the algae and affected leaves. If the problem persists you can do a blackout.


OK bud. So am I right in thinking I should reduce ferts so it kind of starves the algae, then once algae is under control, start slowly increasing ferts again so the plants have no more deficiencies. The light I have reduced from 6 hours to 5 hours. So I can reduce that by another hour if I need to.
So I see why you suggest adding floating plants so they can help absorb the nutrients away from the algae.


Hufsa said:


> Im seeing 90% staghorn in those pics


All of the algae in the tank is the algae that is in those pics. So I got no BBA then? And Staghorn is worst than BBA right?


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## arcturus (24 Jan 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Im seeing 90% staghorn in those pics


Or <filamentous algae>? But may be staghorn in early stages...


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## arcturus (24 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> OK bud. So am I right in thinking I should reduce ferts so it kind of starves the algae, then once algae is under control, start slowly increasing ferts again so the plants have no more deficiencies. The light I have reduced from 6 hours to 5 hours. So I can reduce that by another hour if I need to.
> So I see why you suggest adding floating plants so they can help absorb the nutrients away from the algae.


You will starve the plants and the algae. And the algae will win that game because they are much more efficient than plants



Keetchy said:


> All of the algae in the tank is the algae that is in those pics. So I got no BBA then? And Staghorn is worst than BBA right?


Just take a bit of algae and place it in alcohol. If it is staghorn it will become reddish (staghorn is a red algae). Staghorn is also harder to remove manually than filamentous algae and has a particular branched growth.


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> You will starve the plants and the algae. And the algae will win that game because they are much more efficient than plants
> 
> 
> Just take a bit of algae and place it in alcohol. If it is staghorn it will become reddish (staghorn is a red algae). Staghorn is also harder to remove manually than filamentous algae and has a particular branched growth.
> ...


OK. I won't reduce the amount of ferts then. But then surely increasing ferts will then feed the algae more. So maybe keep it as it is but just add floating plants and keep doing what I'm doing, WC every other day and cut out any leaves with algae on and scrub hardscape.

So the algae in the tank definitely isn't green and it is a lot more like hair compared to that pic you've just added. None of it has "branches" coming off. Just looks like tiny furr balls. And it comes off of the hardscape fairly easy with a brush. Then before it gets siphoned up, it just looks like a ball of fluff floating in the water.


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## Keetchy (24 Jan 2022)

Just tested water after reading those links you sent me, and ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is present but very low


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## arcturus (24 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> Just tested water after reading those links you sent me, and ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate is present but very low


Low nitrates are not surprising since you increased the light input. Nitrate and/or CO2 deficiency are common triggers for algae. Just make sure the plants are getting sufficient NPK macros and micros. Overdosing ferts will not cause algae.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> Low nitrates are not surprising since you increased the light input. Nitrate and/or CO2 deficiency are common triggers for algae. Just make sure the plants are getting sufficient NPK macros and micros. Overdosing ferts will not cause algae.


OK thanks again. I'm dosing TNC complete so don't have individual micros and macros like in Ei dosing. I am dosing 4.5ml per day for 6 days a week so far, I can try increasing that to maybe 5ml per day and see what happens


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## erwin123 (25 Jan 2022)

In UKAPS I learnt that the 3 key factors are
(1) stable CO2
(2) flow is king. don't neglect flow at the substrate level
(3) keep the tank clean

In UKAPS I also learnt that we shouldn't trust retail nitrate tests but should focus on what we add into the water, and what is already in the water (water supply report). On the other hand, I occasionally use NO3 tests to tell me that there is nothing unusual happening (i.e. the test result is the same yellow/orange colour as previous weeks, as opposed to suddenly turning an angry red - just in case my root tabs are leaking into the water column). 

For your tank, what caught my eye was the position of your filter outlet which seems to be pushing water along the 'short-side' of your tank from back to front, whereas the 'usual' way of setting up lily pipes is shown in the above video from George Farmer- i.e. outflow is at the front, pushing water along the 'long side' of the tank. Also noteworthy from the video is the amount of surface agitation.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

erwin123 said:


> In UKAPS I learnt that the 3 key factors are
> (1) stable CO2
> (2) flow is king. don't neglect flow at the substrate level
> (3) keep the tank clean
> ...



Thanks bud. OK I can look into getting a skimmer lily pipe glassware set. I suppose this way I can take my Eheim surface skimmer out of the tank. I will move the inlet and outlet pipes to the side walls of the tank too. I do notice all AG tanks have the outlet and inlet next to each other and flowing the water across the front panel of the tank from side to side. So I can try this at some point.
So how do I get water movement across the whole base of the tank at substrate level? Without affecting the plants? Surely a powerhead at substrate level will affect the growth of the plants, as it they will all be pushed at an angle instead of growing straight up. Or have I pictured this wrong?


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## erwin123 (25 Jan 2022)

Surface agitation & gaseous exchange in CO2 injected tanks
					

Surface agitation in a planted aquarium - yes or not ? This page explores why having some surface agitation and turnover is actually useful in planted tanks and actually makes tuning CO2 to optimal levels more easy.




					www.2hraquarist.com
				




the diagram in the linked page shows how the flow reaches the substrate level - which implies that the flow has to be pretty strong in order to achieve that.  

In UKAPS there are also discussions about the use of a spraybar as helping with flow to the substrate level.


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## arcturus (25 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> Thanks bud. OK I can look into getting a skimmer lily pipe glassware set. I suppose this way I can take my Eheim surface skimmer out of the tank. I will move the inlet and outlet pipes to the side walls of the tank too. I do notice all AG tanks have the outlet and inlet next to each other and flowing the water across the front panel of the tank from side to side. So I can try this at some point.
> So how do I get water movement across the whole base of the tank at substrate level? Without affecting the plants? Surely a powerhead at substrate level will affect the growth of the plants, as it they will all be pushed at an angle instead of growing straight up. Or have I pictured this wrong?


The hardscape and plants are obstacles and the filter outlet might struggle circulating the water around the tank. In larger tanks, the water flow might also not be able to reach the opposite side of the tank. It really depends on the size of the tank, on the impact of the hardscape and plants, and the mechanism you use to circulate the water (spray bar, jet nozzle, lily pipe, ...)

A power head/wave maker/circulation pump is a simple and effective way to improve the overall water circulation not only near the substrate level but all around the tank. This is important because it improves the overall distribution of CO2 and nutrients, which will contributes to healthy plant growth (and less algae). Now, you do not want to blast the plants (and livestock) with a strong current of water. So, you will to need to adjust the placement and direction of the flow as well as the output of the power head (easier if you get a power head with controllable output). It will be a matter of trying out different placements until the flow and circulation are optimized. IMO, it is much simpler to improve circulation if you add a power head. Using just the filter outlet works in smaller tanks but is harder to optimize.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> The hardscape and plants are obstacles and the filter outlet might struggle circulating the water around the tank. In larger tanks, the water flow might also not be able to reach the opposite side of the tank. It really depends on the size of the tank, on the impact of the hardscape and plants, and the mechanism you use to circulate the water (spray bar, jet nozzle, lily pipe, ...)
> 
> A power head/wave maker/circulation pump is a simple and effective way to improve the overall water circulation not only near the substrate level but all around the tank. This is important because it improves the overall distribution of CO2 and nutrients, which will contributes to healthy plant growth (and less algae). Now, you do not want to blast the plants (and livestock) with a strong current of water. So, you will to need to adjust the placement and direction of the flow as well as the output of the power head (easier if you get a power head with controllable output). It will be a matter of trying out different placements until the flow and circulation are optimized. IMO, it is much simpler to improve circulation if you add a power head. Using just the filter outlet works in smaller tanks but is harder to optimize.


I can judge the amount of flow in the tank by watching where the micro C02 bubbles get blown around right? That and movement of the plants.

So my next goal is to get a skimmer lily pipe set for my filter and fit that. The filter is powerful enough for my tank. I have a 160 litre tank and the filter is spec'd at 1000lph. Now I know manufacturers overrate the specs but even if 1000lph is more than what it actually physically turns over, I still think the filter I got it big enough for my tank.

With the skimmer lily pipe set fitted, I will remove my Eheim surface skimmer and look into an affordable adjustable powerhead and have that on hand ready to be fitted if needed.

Until then, I will carry on with my every other day 50% WCs and carry on cutting out any leaves I see with algae on.

After watching a video on one of your links, I haven't been blowing the substrate with a turkey baster while siphoning the water. So this is something i will add into my WC routine


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

I just hope I can get back in control of the tank before I end up cutting all the plants out with algae. Lol


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## erwin123 (25 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> I can judge the amount of flow in the tank by watching where the micro C02 bubbles get blown around right? That and movement of the plants.
> 
> So my next goal is to get a skimmer lily pipe set for my filter and fit that. The filter is powerful enough for my tank. I have a 160 litre tank and the filter is spec'd at 1000lph. Now I know manufacturers overrate the specs but even if 1000lph is more than what it actually physically turns over, I still think the filter I got it big enough for my tank.





			https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/7266/9773/files/water_circulation_in_tank.jpg?v=1569491538
		


Yes, watching where the bubbles go does give an indication of flow. As we can't see your tank, you are in the best position to assess whether the flow is strong enough.  My own experience is that if you want a Lily pipe to push the water down to the substrate level as shown in the photo from the 2hr aquarist link, the flow has to be pretty strong (we are talking about 10-20x rather than just 6x - look at the flowrate in the George Farmer video I linked to - that tank is an Aquascaper 600 which is 99 litres and the filter George normally uses for his Aquascaper 600 setups appears to be the Biomaster 600 which is 1250l/hr.  So a powerhead will definitely help.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

erwin123 said:


> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0230/7266/9773/files/water_circulation_in_tank.jpg?v=1569491538
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, watching where the bubbles go does give an indication of flow. As we can't see your tank, you are in the best position to assess whether the flow is strong enough.  My own experience is that if you want a Lily pipe to push the water down to the substrate level as shown in the photo from the 2hr aquarist link, the flow has to be pretty strong (we are talking about 10-20x rather than just 6x - look at the flowrate in the George Farmer video I linked to - that tank is an Aquascaper 600 which is 99 litres and the filter George normally uses for his Aquascaper 600 setups appears to be the Biomaster 600 which is 1250l/hr.  So a powerhead will definitely help.


I'll check out the video. Thanks. Wow so in that case I am underpowered with my filter. I'll definitely get a powerhead then. I'll assess the flow once I got the lily pipe fitted but most likely have the filter sorting out the flow for the front of the tank and stick a powerhead in the rear corner to sort out flow back to the filter inlet (same corner as the outlet lily pipe)


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## arcturus (25 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> I'll check out the video. Thanks. Wow so in that case I am underpowered with my filter. I'll definitely get a powerhead then. I'll assess the flow once I got the lily pipe fitted but most likely have the filter sorting out the flow for the front of the tank and stick a powerhead in the rear corner to sort out flow back to the filter inlet (same corner as the outlet lily pipe)


In a tank with CO2 injection you do need CO2 and nutrients to be evenly distributed. For that you need sufficient water circulation (this is where the flow ~10x volume magic number comes from). Now, you do not need the filters to provide such flow alone, especially in a planted tank. Your 1000 lph filter is sufficient for mechanical and biological filtration. This is where the power heads/wave makers come into the picture because they generate flow and they are easier to control than filter outputs.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> In a tank with CO2 injection you do need CO2 and nutrients to be evenly distributed. For that you need sufficient water circulation (this is where the flow ~10x volume magic number comes from). Now, you do not need the filters to provide such flow alone, especially in a planted tank. Your 1000 lph filter is sufficient for mechanical and biological filtration. This is where the power heads/wave makers come into the picture because they generate flow and they are easier to control than filter outputs.


Perfect bud. I'll get myself the skimmer lily pipe set and a controllable powerhead. Hopefully with the increased flow and keeping the C02 steady, the ferts will fall into place and I'll have a successful tank. Its just knowing how much to fert of TNC to get it right that will be the next tricky part


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## arcturus (25 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> Perfect bud. I'll get myself the skimmer lily pipe set and a controllable powerhead. Hopefully with the increased flow and keeping the C02 steady, the ferts will fall into place and I'll have a successful tank. Its just knowing how much to fert of TNC to get it right that will be the next tricky part



The recommended TNC regime might be sufficient to provide the required nutrients in a low tech rank. But with CO2 and additional light input you need to increase the weekly nutrient target. A way to do this is  increasing the fertilization frequency to maybe 3-4x per week. But even at this rate, I think you would fertilizing below the lower range of Estimative Index...

There are several TNC Complete users in this forum that can surely give you some input. I suggest you ask this question in the fertilizers forum.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> The recommended TNC regime might be sufficient to provide the required nutrients in a low tech rank. But with CO2 and additional light input you need to increase the weekly nutrient target. A way to do this is  increasing the fertilization frequency to maybe 3-4x per week. But even at this rate, I think you would fertilizing below the lower range of Estimative Index...
> 
> There are several TNC Complete users in this forum that can surely give you some input. I suggest you ask this question in the fertilizers forum.


OK bud, I'll start another thread tonight. So the recommended dosage for TNC is 1ml per 10 litres of water. I am ferting 3ml per 10 litres of water. But I will still start a new thread in the fertiliser section


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## John q (25 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> What has caused the BBA? Is it because I increased light intensity and C02 but not the ferts? Or have I got another issue in the tank?


The bba ~ stagshorn ~ insert ufo algae here was likely caused by fluctuating co2 levels, this could have happened for a number of reasons. The obvious one is increasing the light intensity... system is geared for plan A, and you introduce plan B... its possible that plan A was working and the higher light skewed plan B, its also possible that following plan C will work. Lol

The nutrient demand on this tank is small. I'd suggest you don't need 4x times tnc complete to fix this tank, dose a decent amount of ferts (1× possibly 2x tnc complete) and get a stable amount of co2 "i shall repeat ~ "stable co2"" and I'm sure you'll bring things around.


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

John q said:


> The bba ~ stagshorn ~ insert ufo algae here was likely caused by fluctuating co2 levels, this could have happened for a number of reasons. The obvious one is increasing the light intensity... system is geared for plan A, and you introduce plan B... its possible that plan A was working and the higher light skewed plan B, its also possible that following plan C will work. Lol
> 
> The nutrient demand on this tank is small. I'd suggest you don't need 4x times tnc complete to fix this tank, dose a decent amount of ferts (1× possibly 2x tnc complete) and get a stable amount of co2 "i shall repeat ~ "stable co2"" and I'm sure you'll bring things around.


Ha OK cool. So carry on with plan C yeah? WCs every other day, cut out any new algae infested leaves and scrubbing hardscape, leave C02 as it is now as the DC is a lime green colour from lights on to C02 off, and carry on dosing what I was dosing which is 3 times the normal TNC recommended dose


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## John q (25 Jan 2022)

3x tnc dosage for this tank is more than enough in my opinion. I'd stick with the other suggestions given by @arcturus ..  sensible advise..


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## Keetchy (25 Jan 2022)

John q said:


> 3x tnc dosage for this tank is more than enough in my opinion. I'd stick with the other suggestions given by @arcturus ..  sensible advise..


Cool cool. Thanks man. Let's get this tank back on its feet again


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## Keetchy (26 Jan 2022)

OK glass skimmer lily pipe set ordered and arriving tomorrow


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## erwin123 (26 Jan 2022)

if you are dosing 3x the recommended dose of TNC complete and your nitrate test kit says you have nearly 0 nitrate, that just shows how unreliable some nitrate test kits are.


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## Keetchy (26 Jan 2022)

erwin123 said:


> if you are dosing 3x the recommended dose of TNC complete and your nitrate test kit says you have nearly 0 nitrate, that just shows how unreliable some nitrate test kits are.


Yeah true. I suppose the best way to tell is by looking at the plants and checking for deficiencies


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## arcturus (26 Jan 2022)

erwin123 said:


> if you are dosing 3x the recommended dose of TNC complete and your nitrate test kit says you have nearly 0 nitrate, that just shows how unreliable some nitrate test kits are.


If I got the calculations right, 3x the recommended dose of TNC Complete yields ~6.5 ppm of NO3, which is a similar value to APT Complete. This value is in the low range for a planted tank with CO2 if not complemented with enriched aquasoil.


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## erwin123 (26 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> If I got the calculations right, 3x the recommended dose of TNC Complete yields ~6.5 ppm of NO3, which is a similar value to APT Complete. This value is in the low range for a planted tank with CO2 if not complemented with enriched aquasoil.






According to the IFC spreadsheet, the recommended dose of TNC complete (1ml/10l/week) yields  6.64ppm NO3, so 3x the recommended dose will be 19.92ppm NO3


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## arcturus (26 Jan 2022)

erwin123 said:


> View attachment 180778
> According to the IFC spreadsheet, the recommended dose of TNC complete (1ml/10l/week) yields  6.64ppm NO3, so 3x the recommended dose will be 19.92ppm NO3


Thanks for the correction - got the NO3 numbers right but failed to multiply by 3  Then yes, 3x the recommended dosage is sufficient.


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## Keetchy (26 Jan 2022)

Brilliant. Thanks guys

As for the positioning of the lily pipe inlet and outlet, I suppose fitting them at the front corner facing across the front will be better than at the back corner facing across the back right? That way if I need to add a powerhead, I can fit that in the rear corner kind of out of sight


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## arcturus (26 Jan 2022)

Keetchy said:


> Brilliant. Thanks guys
> 
> As for the positioning of the lily pipe inlet and outlet, I suppose fitting them at the front corner facing across the front will be better than at the back corner facing across the back right? That way if I need to add a powerhead, I can fit that in the rear corner kind of out of sight


Yes, that is the "classic" setup with lily pipes. You don't have a massive hardscape so this setup _might _work. But your tank is long, so you need to test it out. The challenge is to get enough surface agitation (read the link below for why that is important with CO2) while having sufficient water circulation at the same time, especially near the substrate and carpet plants, and in the places obstructed by the hardscape. You will need to try different placements of the lilly pipe. If this is proving too complicated a power head can save the day.

(from 2hr aquarist)


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## Keetchy (26 Jan 2022)

arcturus said:


> Yes, that is the "classic" setup with lily pipes. You don't have a massive hardscape so this setup _might _work. But your tank is long, so you need to test it out. The challenge is to get enough surface agitation (read the link below for why that is important with CO2) while having sufficient water circulation at the same time, especially near the substrate and carpet plants, and in the places obstructed by the hardscape. You will need to try different placements of the lilly pipe. If this is proving too complicated a power head can save the day.
> 
> (from 2hr aquarist)
> View attachment 180780


Thanks bud, I'll put it in place and see where I'm at this weekend


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## palcente (31 Jan 2022)

I had exactly the same issue after changing to a stronger light. Exactly same algae. I am still struggling with it after months on slow growers, especially old growth. Cannot get rid of it on s.repens and arm. I cut few arm by the substrate so just the root system was remaining, they are growing back slowly and so far no algae on them, so maybe that's the way to go about it. I will try the same with s. Repens.


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