# COVID19 and terrible decision making



## Mr.Shenanagins

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10849369-181/aquarium-cleaner-kills-arizona-man

This virus has people so paranoid that they are turning to aquatic medications.....


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## Mr.Shenanagins

Sorry I posted in the wrong spot


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## Simon Cole

Well actually, one of the only drugs used to treat pneumonia, is one of the ones that I use to treat fish. Naughty Simon.


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## Tim Harrison

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> Sorry I posted in the wrong spot


No worries, you helped relieve the boredom, well at least for a few seconds


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## Zeus.

I Believe this was the 'PMs' first take



Think he should off kept it in


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## Mr.Shenanagins

Lol hysteria and apocalyptic doom sure brings out the worst of us doesn’t it


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## LondonDragon

How is everyone keeping in isolation??? Here in the second week WFH  so far so good!!


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## Zeus.

'Keeping Safe' and only going out for essential food infrequently, plus going out is essential to support my 'staff' as we are a 'primary health workers'. I'm 'Covid-19 lead' so been quite busy in last few days! 'Mainly remotely'


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## zozo

Sitting and working in my garden... I can't help notice and actually enjoying the silence, very little people walking and very little cars driving by, no planes in the sky, no noise of trains in the distance... Only singing birds and buzzing bees almost able to hear the grass grow...

Something i have never experienced before in my entire life without traveling to about the other end of the world. Can't help it but kinda like it..


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

I’ve also been working from home and from the garden quite a bit. My 9 month old needs a couple of naps a day and I have to go outside to take all the calls and joint teams meetings etc. It’s been colder the last couple of days but it’s still better than being stuck in the office!!

Have also been able to go for lunchtime walks which has been amazing and have been saving 2 hours a day of being in the car too!!


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## Simon Cole

LondonDragon said:


> How is everyone keeping in isolation???



I need to isolate myself from our house tomorrow because my mother is caring for my grandmother who is vulnerable, and my mother is coming back.
I've got to get my father looking 9 tanks and multiple cultures, so I may need to close certain tanks down until my mother arrives. She will have to look after them for about three months until social services are in a position to care for my grandmother (hopefully). Then I'll be in a better position. It's a kick in the teeth because I've got my hands on some rare ADA plants and I've got a very nice collection going, which I was hoping to share out eventually.


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## foxfish

We are all moving into the unknown, it is so difficult to imagine where we will all be or what we will be doing in six months or a year.
Certainly a changing world.


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## LondonDragon

foxfish said:


> We are all moving into the unknown, it is so difficult to imagine where we will all be or what we will be doing in six months or a year.
> Certainly a changing world.


Indeed, fear life will never be the same again or at least for quite some time, no idea if will have a job in the near future, where I am going to be, and whom I am going to loose, this is some crazy world, we knew this was a possibility but no one would have thought it would turn reality into such a scale!! The people that could have stopped this early failed all of us....


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## sparkyweasel

More terrible decision making;
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ck-up-nose-while-inventing-coronavirus-device


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## ReefLewis

LondonDragon said:


> How is everyone keeping in isolation??? Here in the second week WFH  so far so good!!


Bored, bored and bored some more. I'm in student accommodation, all other flatmates have gone back home so.im.left here on my own. I cant/wont go back to family home because I work at an aquarium which is still open as pet shops are on the list. Unfortunately some people aren't understanding that browsing for some guppies is.not essential travel, so I dont want to risk passing anything to my family. 

On the plus side I have my fish here !

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Zeus.

What ever the out come there's a lot of lessons to be learnt, then we will hopefully be ready if/when the next comes. If SARS would have spread like Covid 19 has then that would of been a lot worse then Covid 19 and MERS I dont even wont to think about as that was another order of magnitude all together for death rate .

One useful link I use the follow the pandemic/population globally is - WorldoMeter 

Office of National Statistics for the UK is handy too as it puts it a little more into perceptive IMO


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## Aqua sobriquet

LondonDragon said:


> How is everyone keeping in isolation??? Here in the second week WFH  so far so good!!



I’m doing good. Eating a bit too much but I’m trying to keep busy. I’ve ordered lots of stuff online to set up a new 60L cube. Just hoping all the bits I need arrive.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy

Oh yeh my diet is mainly chocolate based currently...


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## LondonDragon

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Oh yeh my diet is mainly chocolate based currently...


Thats all I could see plenty off in the shelves at the supermarket!! lots of Easter Eggs!!!


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## LondonDragon

Got hold of a 3D printer yesterday and it's now in my spare room:



 
Printing these frames to make face shields for NHS frontline staff dealing with covid-19 patients:



 
Now printing 18 at a time :





These will then be assembled in Sheffield to make the full mask:



 

Stay home and stay safe everyone!!


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## Andy Taylor

I am bored sh!tless. I work at the local college and that is shut to most staff. I was fortunate to be classed as a key worker!


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## LondonDragon

Andy Taylor said:


> I am bored sh!tless. I work at the local college and that is shut to most staff. I was fortunate to be classed as a key worker!


Keyworker also and working from home (work for a University), only go in if there is an emergency


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## Zeus.

I'm (colleagues and staff) on standby awaiting the 'call' and redeployment. We have the lowest incidence for critical care for Covid-19 in UK our area ATM. So remote triage only ATM, so one of us doing remote triage only on 24hr shifts in our 'practice', Have 'buddy' practice in our cluster so between us covering seven days a week to ease pressure on '111', 111 normally take care of the night and weekend triage in our sector.

Calm before the potential storm!!!!


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## kirk

This thread popped up in my emails. Fine over here in newzealand, in our second week of lockdown. no tanks as yet but busy on the 5.7acre lifestyle block tree felling etc. Stay 
well all


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## Mr.Shenanagins

LondonDragon said:


> Keyworker also and working from home (work for a University), only go in if there is an emergency



Thank you for what your doing, it’s amazing to see people like you do what they can to fight the evil in the world for those on the front lines. As a first responder, thank you.


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## rebel

Sorry to hear your troubles in the UK, Italy etc. We haven't had the full brunt of it in Australia. We are less congested compared to you guys though.

Keep strong!


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## dean

I’m enjoying the silence 
I live close to the m6 & m62 junctions so there’s always been a faint roar as a background noise which has now stopped 
Never noticed before how loudly some bird songs are 
My sky is usually full of planes from Manchester and Liverpool and I can’t remember the last time I saw one 

There must be a rise in the air quality now ? 

So there are some positives to think about 

It’s a bloody shame that it takes people dying to make this things come to our attention 

I always say the world is too small now and that was clearly shown by how fast the virus spread 

Stay safe everyone 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zozo

What is scary is going shopping...  Wherever you look it's virtually empty even in a park i can count all people on 1 hand. But in the supermarket? Some have a bouncer now at the door and a 1 out 1 in policy and you need to stand in line 1,5 metre apart to wait for your turn. Shopping carts disinfected. Once inside you still can't help bumping into people sometimes. It still is packed as an ant nest. You see the fear in peoples eyes, gloves and facemasks, some people franticly leap 3 metres back if someone comes to close. From audio speakers in the shop, you are constantly bombarded with Corona and social distancing Messages, keep distance!? Think about your neighbour!? Be Safe!? 1,5 metres, please!? Please Pay with PIN!?.. "Wir schaffen Das!!!!!"  It's like walking through a concentration camp i'm kinda missing the Corona batches sewn to peoples chest...

It's madness, the people are driven completely crazy like this... Where will this end if this needs to go on for over a year?

I guess now we all know what the saying "When the sh|t hits the fan" implies... 

The new normal is coming they say... Completely bonkers is coming instead...


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## dw1305

Hi all,





zozo said:


> What is scary is going shopping.........But in the supermarket? Some have a bouncer now at the door and a 1 out 1 in policy and you need to stand in line 1,5 metre apart to wait for your turn. Shopping carts disinfected. Once inside you still can't help bumping into people sometimes.


Same for me. 

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish

We have not been to a shop for over one month now, only home deliveries and everything is then washed down before storage as recommended by our independent government in Guernsey.
Every day we go for a 4-5 mile walk within the two hour period allowed .
To be honest we are a hell of a lot better off than many other people due to our large garden that gives us something to do every day.
However we live in a densely populated island with limited hospital facilities.
Already 7 have died in our island.


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## Zeus.

New bug we dont rely understand ATM. I'm following Sweden with interest at the moment and the lastest CDC report on Covid 19 was interesting too.


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## rebel

Sweden is a worry because they are allowing their citizens to do the right thing. I hope they do. My guess is that they will pay dearly.

With very heavy restrictions and fines we've got it under control in Australia. Still we have plenty of #covidiots running around.


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## zozo

rebel said:


> plenty of #covidiots running around.



Nice new term Covidiot, not sure if it will sink in and work... If this goes on long enough even more covidiots will be created, rise and stand up and in the end revolt... After all, we too are animals living by Mother Natures Darwinistic rule "Survival of the fittest."

The true covidiots are sitting at the top in penthouses smoking cigars and drinking expensive wine in expensive suits trying to put most of the responsibility with the public.

Meanwhile, they are responsible for shrinking and privatizing and making a business model out of public healthcare. See the consequences.

Meanwhile, the restaurant owner etc. responsible for 15 employees is closed down, but the suit at the top still wants to collect the monthly mortgage or rent. Simply and scrupulously telling the restaurant owner "Deal with it or go bankrupt! But i want my cash!..." The restaurant owner is forced to look at the politicians for help who again are paid by the suits at the top. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!?


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## Zeus.

rebel said:


> Sweden is a worry because they are allowing their citizens to do the right thing. I hope they do. My guess is that they will pay dearly.



Or will they  'A call to honesty in pandemic modeling' well worth a read IMO. After all theres 'Lies,dammed lies and Statistics', Is the Cure worse than the disease and serious unintended consequences of Covid-19. Until the dust has settled and all the data is in nobody knows what the right path to take is, 'Hindsight is always perfect !'


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## zozo

The answer might be very simple... It learns us, there is no cure, the exact same scenario can and will happen again, it's not an if but a when.

Now we are dealing with it rather totally unprepared, there is only one lesson to be learned and one probable and likely best solution. And that is put all resources in a better healthcare construction... Make it larger and easier accessible and cheaper.. As numbers say, most people in the risk group are weakened and susceptible due to poverty or decadency. In the poverty regions, the elderly are cared for at home in rather large family settings. In the decadency regions, the elderly are tugged away out of sight in under-equipped institutions. Rather to forget about then to care for.

All based upon business models to get the most bang for the buck... But the most bang falls into the wrong pockets and disappears.

If this is not drastically going to change in the future we can kiss public places to indulge life and amusement bye-bye...

For now, if I listen to the politician's debates, it sounds more like they rather are steering towards the Bye-Bye Kiss.. The New Normal...
Put the most resources in keeping public apart... The most bang for your buck, for pockets already bursting at the seams...


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## foxfish

In my area  there seems to be a lot of compassion and understanding, I dare to say there are profiteers making money but most people are trying to deal with the facts and being helpful.

Everywhere you look you can find individual opinions and that adds up to millions and millions of different avenues of thought and so much speculation!!

 I can’t see how anyone can accurately predict the overall outcome, this a developing world wide affair, effecting every single person in one way or another.
Personally I would rather concentrate on a positive future and not be drawn into hearsay.

However it is hard to imagine cinemas or indoor concerts and such like ever making it back without radical changes .
There might be development in masks and gloves or long lasting hand barrier creams, home testing and other helpful methods to control this and other viruses.

Here in my own home town, two business have got together to produce a hand  sanitiser.
One company deals with seaweed products and the other is a Gin distillery, together they are now producing 200 litres of effective hand sanitiser every week at cost price and distributing it to all care workers.
Hopefully they will be able to develop this product and production rate so we can all use it.
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/03/31/hand-sanitiser-being-made-with-seaweed-from-our-shores/


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## zozo

foxfish said:


> Personally I would rather concentrate on a positive future and not be drawn into hearsay.



100% agree..  I'm not trying to be too negative... Maybe more like realistic...



foxfish said:


> In my area there seems to be a lot of compassion and understanding,


I also notice very little people on the street, but about everybody passing by is keeping a distance but friendly saying Hello. Even people i've never noticed in my life before. It's as if now i have to watch you then rather do it in a friendly way. It's nice and strange at same time..



foxfish said:


> However it is hard to imagine cinemas or indoor concerts and such like ever making it back without radical changes .
> There might be development in masks and gloves or long lasting hand barrier creams, home testing and other helpful methods to control this and other viruses.



In a way, i can't imagine this... This would be something like a Psychological Pandemic based upon fear and mistrust. I'm an old-timer and not really in drastic need anymore. But how are the youngsters going to meet up and find a future partner? Wearing a disinfecting Burka Nikab on the dance floor? Who wants to live in a world where everybody poops their pants when somebody next to them sneezes or coughs? I can not see this as a future happy nor positive reality.

As what i understand is going on is and that's not hearsay, not Corona as a virus is our particular problem... It's our healthcare seems to be massively overpowered and shaking at its unhealthy foundations. I absolutely don't see it as a negative to learn our lesson from this and rebuild our healthcare system.


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## rebel

Zeus. said:


> Until the dust has settled and all the data is in nobody knows what the right path to take is, 'Hindsight is always perfect !'


That's a good approach for everything except pandemic and asteroid strike. You use the data you have available and model the future best you can. Corona is not a new virus. We've got plenty of data from previous experience and alot of new data is streaming in.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(20)30086-4/fulltext

I wasn't using the term covidiot jokingly. There is no way an average person will understand pandemic let alone any other health issue deeply. Sweden is so brave to assume that people understand.


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## zozo

We have some positive news to report...

Van Der Valk Hotels, countries biggest and richest hotel concern obviously also closed down. And since they "Nobly" made one hotel complex in our region available as Medical Corona Centre with 240 beds available.. 

Yesterday in the news, since the local hospitals see a decline in new patients taken up and the plan is to close the hotels' Corona Centre down again. There are only 25 beds occupied and the personnel costs but above all the "ROOM RENT!" is too high... 

ROOM RENT! Can you believe this?? They struck a deal with the government and make money to turn an otherwise closed hotel complex into a Corona Centre. How Noble is that??


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> From audio speakers in the shop, you are constantly bombarded with Corona and social distancing Messages, keep distance!?



In the supermarket I felt like in a science fiction movie..."The future is futile" 



zozo said:


> The answer might be very simple... It learns us, there is no cure, the exact same scenario can and will happen again, it's not an if but a when.



Of course, considering how advanced we are in technology, we are yet to find a cure against any viral diseases......And we still treat the head, the organs, the limbs, etc...as separate entities, as if they're not all part of the same body. The brainiest brains can't figure out how this virus affects the entire body and why it affects different bodies differently....


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## Zeus.

Worth a watch IMO


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## zozo

Absolutely worth a watch... Thanks!?   Following the numbers of population density Sweden - 64 people/mi², there is an obvious why this policy fails in other countries e.g. UK - 671 people/mi²

The Netherlands - 1,316 people/mi², we tried but within a week teenagers organized Yuck Corona Parties and police had to raid it. People gathered in parks and stated in an interview "What's the problem!? The politicians said we need mass immunity, we are helping with this. Aren't we? The media was flooded with this, a week later Lockdown by force. 

A guess, the more density the more idiots and the less abiding citizens too, especially in Multi Culti Societies already clashing for decades are vulnerable with loads of citizens agreeing to disagree not only each other but above all the government's decisions/recommendations.


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## Mr.Shenanagins

The “free” countries are the problem, because freedom relies on social responsibility to do what’s right and best for all. And because a bulk of the population has their own agenda, government needs to step in. It’s only been a few months, and people are going insane. I can’t imagine what it’s like to lose my job and just see the bills rack up, just awful. However, I guarantee the ones protesting or running a muck are not in that situation, and are just annoyed they can’t go to the bar and get wasted or go get their hair done, irresponsible and selfish idiots. There is a price to pay for a free society, and we are feeling that effect full force with this pandemic.


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## dw1305

Hi all,





Zeus. said:


> Worth a watch IMO





Mr.Shenanagins said:


> And because a bulk of the population has their own agenda, government needs to step in


It was, but it is from the Cato Institute, which is funded by the Koch brothers, and they definitely have their <"own agenda">. 





zozo said:


> Following the numbers of population density Sweden - 64 people/mi², there is an obvious why this policy fails in other countries e.g. UK - 671 people/mi² ......The Netherlands - 1,316 people/mi²


That is the point for me. My sister lives in <"NW. Herefordshire"> and she says social isolation is her day to day life any way. I live in a more populated area, but even for me, living in leafy suburbia, it is a million miles away from living in a flat in London.

Actually the population density is even higher in the <"SE of the UK"> with over 18,000,000 people in London and the SE. The overall figure is lower because we have non-populated areas like N. Scotland and C. Wales, which reduces the overall population density.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus.

Think its a little odd also that  the UK recovery rate hasn't been showing on world meter for a few weeks and @zozo Netherlands has also followed the same over last couple of days !


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## Aqua sobriquet

It seems that some shops are now starting to reopen with new “social distancing” measures employed in store. B&Q are one of them but sadly not my local store as yet. I’m wondering if LFS will be able to follow suit at some point?


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## zozo

Zeus. said:


> Think its a little odd also that  the UK recovery rate hasn't been showing on world meter for a few weeks and @zozo Netherlands has also followed the same over last couple of days !



arithmetic, millions of people are or have been infected, without ever been tested/diagnosed nor having/had severe complaints... Running around without protection, in case 1,5 metre apart... 

Thus the numbers are actually not really reflecting the reality in the big picture... And there are many reports of people diagnosed as Corona death without ever been tested.

Interesting in your worldometer is the number of tests vs. cases and deaths...  I see numbers that make me wonder how did they test it with a Mondial shortage of test capacity? UAE 790,000 tests?


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## sciencefiction

zozo said:


> Thus the numbers are actually not really reflecting the reality in the big picture... And there are many reports of people diagnosed as Corona death without ever been tested



Of course they're not. The only way they can reflect the big picture is to test everyone at once, take the big picture like a snapshot of time.....impossible. So many countries, so many different policies on coronavirus, none took the plunge to test the entire population, despite them paying billions in the mean time for other reasons......And  you wonder why, because testing all can be cheaper than paying people free money and possibly ruining the economy for an indefinite period of time, and ruining a lot of people's lives for an indefinite period of time, at the same time...

I am totally enjoying the break, my break being working from home and having way more time for myself, and in fact enjoying work way more. However, I can't stop thinking about some aspects of the situation, e.g. how badly prepared are countries considered advanced economically and health care wise, how easily scared we are as people and individuals, again ganging up on those that don't fit the norm. Our rights are again over-ruled by the minority, as if a few brains are more than the brains of the entire population...And the minority create fear, the same fear that leads to wars. Add the social isolation and anxiety of the human brain, which is not used to be alone at home, and the most unpredictable can happen...which unpredictable is engraved in history already, it has happened.

I feel devastated to hear that some think the solution is taking vital human rights away to solve this pandemic.Those people are going to experience the boomerang throw  Dangerous times are ahead of us I think, and it is a time of thinking, not time of fear. Raise above. 

On a more non-philosophical note, this thing is going to drag....For me here, I hear it will be end of August before going to office, at least for us folks that are working from home.


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## Gill

Work Organised the Testing for all employees and went for my test on Thursday Evening at the boots factory in beeston. Was very well organised by the Army Personnel. 

In regards to the UK. My brother Was finally able to return from Thailand last night. And was Utterly baffled how Lax the UK has been,
No Social Distancing attempts at Heathrow, no screening, no Temperature Scans Nothing. People packed in like sardines in a can at immigration. No Staff Wearing Facemasks at all. 
Were as in Thailand, he was moved by the Army into better a better equipped Hotel. And everytime you had to leave your hotel for Food. You had to wear face mask. Queue properly outside the Shop. Then each person was temp scanned, and then Given Anti Bac to wipe cleanse hands with etc. If you did not wear a facemask, you were not permitted to leave the hotel.


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## suntechleds

Does uvc light can kill coronavirus?  but it may hurt human skin and eyes.


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## Simon Cole

suntechleds said:


> Does uvc light can kill coronavirus?  but it may hurt human skin and eyes.


Yes.  Go onto youtube and find BigClive he has a great video on this, he is my go to for electronics an amazing guy. I use it, his expert opinion is what you need to watch, he did a video on it. Find it!


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