# Any one own or experienced Kessil A360X LED lights?



## Wookii (13 Mar 2020)

I posted some queries on <<this>> thread but I've had no replies, so thought I would ask the question more directly to the forum.

Does anyone own and use the Kessil A360X LED lights, or failing that has anyone actually seen them in action?

I'm interested in opinions on the colour rendition compared to other RGB LED lights (such as the ADA Solar RGB or the Chihiros Vivid), particularly as these newer Kessil lights have separate Red and Amber LED's that can be turned on and ramped up to taste (the lack of Red was a critism of the older A360WE).

I'd also like to know whether the new 55 degree reflectors cause much hot-spotting in the centre of the light spill or not?


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## jaypeecee (15 Mar 2020)

Hi @Wookii 

I don't own any Kessil lights. But, if you are referring to the A360X Tuna Sun, I note from the spectra shown on the Kessil web site that there is very little output in the red part of the spectrum. This would neither be conducive to plant growth nor colour rendition. This lack of red in the spectra shown doesn't stack up in view of your comment that "these newer Kessil lights have separate Red and Amber LED's that can be turned on and ramped up to taste (the lack of Red was a critism of the older A360WE".

Just my two penn'orth.

JPC


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> I don't own any Kessil lights. But, if you are referring to the A360X Tuna Sun, I note from the spectra shown on the Kessil web site that there is very little output in the red part of the spectrum. This would neither be conducive to plant growth nor colour rendition. This lack of red in the spectra shown doesn't stack up in view of your comment that "these newer Kessil lights have separate Red and Amber LED's that can be turned on and ramped up to taste (the lack of Red was a critism of the older A360WE".
> 
> ...



Agreed - what is not clear is whether the spectrum graphs are shown with the supplementary red and amber LED’s switch on or not.

I’ve no concerns about the ability of the lights to grow plants, there are plenty of people growing plants under other Kessil lights for that not to be an issue - George Farmer being one.

For me it’s the aesthetics of the colour rendition - I wouldn’t want to spend that much on lights and not be happy with how it made the aquarium look. It’s one of the main reasons I wanted to hear from anyone that owned them or had seen them vs other lights.


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## jaypeecee (15 Mar 2020)

Hi @Wookii 

I realize that Kessil have a very good reputation for producing planted aquarium lighting. Just a shame that they're somewhat frugal with readily-available meaningful data.

JPC


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> I realize that Kessil have a very good reputation for producing planted aquarium lighting. Just a shame that they're somewhat frugal with readily-available meaningful data.
> 
> JPC



Absolutely - I actually contacted them directly for PAR data on the new lights and they gave me some long spiel about PAR data not being relevant or an accurate measure of a lights performance yada yada  - it’s a shame as they seem very well made and I’d wager the PAR is very high.


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

I have the A160 Kessils, and prefer this spectrum over the (odd) Twinstar S (reds are strangely purple toned and the greens are yellow tinted) and I love the shimmer - which is definitely not for everyone
I was going to pick up the new 360X when it finally made it to Canada but the price is just a little crazy here - especially once you add up costs to go wifi


In a previous video Tobias shows the ceiling light effect (it’s muted during daytime but depending on your room lighting can be rather louder at night)
If you do a Channel Search there are a few videos
(and he had a Kessil 360X giveaway )

I’m surprised that with Aquarium Garden, Scaped Nature, Riverwood Aquatics, there isn’t someone with a 360X display tank  (have you contacted each shop?)

Unfortunately the bulk of Kessil sales are their reef lights (and horticulture) so they don’t put much marketing money into the Tuna Suns - though I’m suspect they’ll have something at Interzoo


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> Absolutely - I actually contacted them directly for PAR data on the new lights and they gave me some long spiel about PAR data not being relevant or an accurate measure of a lights performance yada yada  - it’s a shame as they seem very well made and I’d wager the PAR is very high.


Giesemann holds much the same view - PAR data can be easily manipulated - and it may not be a good representation of a lights ability to grow plants (PUR is more useful for planted aquaria ... but even fewer people are interested in measuring PUR)

Many of the “freshwater” LEDs put out by other companies, are just a spectral dial change of their reef LEDs 

Kessil gave a rather interesting interview on their Tuna Sun design (MACNA maybe) and how/why they chose those specific


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> I have the A160 Kessils, and prefer this spectrum over the (odd) Twinstar S (reds are strangely purple toned and the greens are yellow tinted) and I love the shimmer - which is definitely not for everyone
> I was going to pick up the new 360X when it finally made it to Canada but the price is just a little crazy here - especially once you add up costs to go wifi
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Alto - so far I’ve only spoke to AG who don’t have one on demo currently.

I can’t find that other Tobias video - do you have a link?

As I posted in the other thread, there is this video by @George Farmer  - and I was hoping George might drop in with some more feedback, but hasn’t so far:



He is using a standard profile on the controller, so it’s not clear whether he has the red or amber LED’s switched on - the colour rendition looks fairly ‘cool’ in terms of colour temperature.


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## jaypeecee (15 Mar 2020)

Hi @Wookii 

I'd like to ask a simple question, which you may be able to ask. Why does Kessil seem to favour point sources of light where, surely, a strip 'form factor' would be preferable for most tanks? I hope you don't mind my asking it here.

JPC


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## Wookii (15 Mar 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> I'd like to ask a simple question, which you may be able to ask. Why does Kessil seem to favour point sources of light where, surely, a strip 'form factor' would be preferable for most tanks? I hope you don't mind my asking it here.
> 
> JPC



I’ve no idea to be honest.

If I was to surmise I’d guess they have a lot of IP wrapped up in the ability to cluster high performance LED’s in such a small space, whilst allowing a high degree of control of the individual LED’s and cooling them effectively and efficiently. 

Their design also makes them somewhat unique, and the difficult to replicate IP also makes it much harder for competitors to copy (think ADA products being easily copied by Chihiros).

As I understand it, they make a lot of lights for the hydroponics industry, as well as commercial aquatics - who are probably going to prefer small form factor for ease of management.

Their parent company also makes lighting for film and photography, so they probably have a diverse range of applications that can use the same IP, tech and production processes. All those other products will require point source and high output. 

So domestic aquariums are possibly something of a small secondary market, so it makes sense to just utilise the same tech and designs.

As @alto also said, these lights are used predominantly in reef aquaria, where a point source light is preferred for the shimmer effect, which you always see on reefs in the natural environment.

Indeed you see the same shimmer naturally in fresh water also - I’ve seen it when I’ve done river snorkelling and also snorkelling and diving in freshwater cenotes - which is part of the reason for my interest in these lights. So I’m not sure we can make a blanket statement that a flat panel is preferable for most tanks.


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## Siege (15 Mar 2020)

Hi @Wookii

don’t know if you’ve seen this video but you can see the kessil shimmer at 11.44.

ignore the colour rendition on all the lights, the camera can’t cope with them! As I keep saying to alto, the Twinstar is not purple in real life 

but you gotta really like the shimmer on the kessil. If you didn’t have a migraine before.....

If you can afford it, I’d go (and I have, albeit eventually) the ADA Solar RGB every day of the week. Don’t worry about the lack of controllability. With a light that good you don’t need it!


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## Vijay_06 (15 Mar 2020)

I had the A360X with WiFi controller and sold it for the Twinstar S series. 

Between the two, I like the color rendition of the Twinstar much better. Based on what I have seen over the internet, it might not compare well against ADA Solar RGB, but it gives off a crisper look compared to the Kessil. The Twinstar does accentuate purples, blues and reds, whereas the Kessil seemed to wash out non-green colors. My ember tetras and koi angel look brilliant under the Twinstar. Also, you need to like the shimmer that the Kessil creates, else you could end up hating it very quickly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Siege said:


> As I keep saying to alto, the Twinstar is not purple in real life


I realize that the camera presentation can be somewhat surreal but I also disliked the Twinstar S rendition irl (I was surprised by how much - I’d intended to purchase the light  ) 
I’ve one tank that receives morning sunlight (if only Kessil could do that in a freshwater LED), so when considering aquarium lighting, that’s the color rendition I’m seeking, I prefer Kessil’s lesser saturated version over Twinstar S red biased saturation ...  my red plants (& red shrimp, “red” fish) don’t look near as coloured, but then neither do the sunlit versions

And I like my shimmer (remember that sunlit tank objective ) - though it would be nice to skip the ceiling disco effect - as it creates shadow/light and creates greater depth perception (not sure that’s the right phrase)

I did see Kessil A160/360WE series before purchasing the light (I’ve seen the same shop tank lit by Giesemann HOT5, Kessil, AI Prime, Twinstar S)

It’s a shame that Kessil doesn’t offer the same promotion to their Sun LED series as they do their Reef series, but I suspect that’s purely economics (and that the Sun series is a bit of a hobby project by one of the founders) - many plant aquarists won’t buy Kessil as it’s too expensive AND few shops have them on display (and even fewer on a decent plant scape)
Of course Kessil did send out _some_ A360X, but the best video I’ve seen is from AquaOwner
(I assume that George has saved his content for his book)

Tobias Introduction video


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Vijay_06 said:


> koi angel look brilliant under the Twinstar.


Steve Rybicki Koi?


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## alto (15 Mar 2020)

Siege said:


> ADA Solar RGB every day of the week


Agreed  - but I’m hoping Kessil is going to showcase their contender at Interzoo 
(unfortunately very unlikely before 2022 but one can dream)


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## Wookii (16 Mar 2020)

Siege said:


> Hi @Wookii
> 
> don’t know if you’ve seen this video but you can see the kessil shimmer at 11.44.
> 
> ...




Thanks Steve - that's useful to see. I know you said ignore the colour rendition, but the A360X didn't look great in that video.

The ADA Solar RGB is a consideration for me, but the lack of controlability is an issue if I'm honest - not least because I think a ram up and down, if only for 10 minutes or so, is better for livestock. I can't understand why ADA don't build in some level of control, especially given the price point.

Ultimately I guess I just need to see these lights (and the level of shimmer) in person.


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## Siege (16 Mar 2020)

Come and see. Once you’ve seen it you’ll forget about controllability 

similar price range, consider the Life Aqua Maxlite, no ramp up/down but does have 8 settings if intensity.


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## alto (16 Mar 2020)

Siege said:


> Come and see.


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## alto (16 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> the A360X didn't look great in that video.


I agree, I suspect looking at the colours that someone has manually changed the colour control to the far left (which gives that yellow cast to the greens)

Elsewhere someone was concerned about theA360X  “55* narrow reflector lens” BUT this is an accessory and not the stock lens (which is 130* )


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