# Water circulation in planted tank



## Rodgie (23 Jul 2017)

Good day to all,

I'm new to the site, and so far I've seen a lot of knowledgeable hobbiest. 

In my 15 gal tall tank I have Anubias,  java fern, amazon sword and banana plant. They've been in my tank more or less 6 months. I'm satisfied with their growth, I've been adjusting here and there every time I noticed something strange in plants.

And, lately I've been struggling on how can I stop the brown spots on my java fern, and after a while it's gonna become holes. Both of my java and anubias also started having like black color patches on their leaves I believe it's a start of BBA. 

My light since I switched to LED is now probably too much for my plants specially the anubias and java fern. I have Excel that I dose every other day and liquid fertz twice a week. I also placed root tabs too near my amazon sword plant. 

After reading threads here I realized I've been missing more water movement. So last night I turned up my sponge filter more to max. And right away I can see tiny bubbles traveling around to the bottom of the tank. Hopefully this will solve my issues. But at the same time I have a female betta in the tank with snails and kuhli loaches. So my questions are, how much water movement do I really need? Like any tips what to watch for? The reason why I'm asking his is that I don't want it to be too much for my betta. I purposely placed a sponge by the outlet of my Fluval C4 filter so that she won't feel like she's in a washing machine lol. I'll appreciate any replies thank you in advance.


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## Matty123 (23 Jul 2017)

You want all the plants to gently sway in the flow. Another gauge would be to drop some fish food into the tank and watch it circulate in the flow, where it ends up is where your flow ends. Holes and BBA is caused by low ferts and inadequate levels of co2 and poor flow. BBA can also be caused by dirty substrate and filter and general poor tank husbandry but it's generally agreed in the fish/plant keeping community it's due to low levels of co2.

Having good plant growth and keeping certain fish sometimes can't be equated. 

Hope this helps 
Matt


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## Rodgie (23 Jul 2017)

I see, I'll definitely put more effort in keeping my tank extra clean and have enough Co2. Thanks for your help sir. I hope in the long run I don't have to give up my betta.

I want to upload pics of the damage leaves but somehow I can't find attach photo icon.

Btw, now that I turned up my sponge filter to max. (It's really blowing tons of bubbles) is this too much that can cause my Co2 level to go down fast?


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## Matty123 (23 Jul 2017)

Not really. If you haven't got a drop checker get yourself one to gauge the level of co2 in your tank, they're basically an in tank PH test but they are in the right ball park of where you want to be with your levels of co2 (lime green in colour.) More co2 is always better and you're always gonna have it escaping from your tank into the atmosphere, that's inventible. Keep an eye on your livestock to gauge whether you're injecting too much co2 (fish at the surface and motionless/sleepy looking) but a drop checker is good imo. Oh black spots on java can also indicate too intense of lighting as it's a low light plant. 


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## Rodgie (23 Jul 2017)

I'll take a look at the Drop checker. Thank you for the tip. About the too much light, I actually have 24 water spangles arriving in the next few days, hopefully they'll be enough to kind a make a shade in some part of my tank.


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## Konsa (23 Jul 2017)

Hi
If you don't supplement the tank with CO2 gas there is no point to buy dropchecker it wont give U a noticeable reading.If you do you shouldn't be running air driven filters while lights and the CO2 are on as will out gas too much of the CO2.
Getting some floating plants is definitely good idea.They will shade a bit of the light and can be used as a nutrients deficiency indicator as they are not CO2 limited.If your tank is with lid you may have to try few different species and see which will be best for you as some don't like the high humidity.Other good options are dwarf water lettuce and amazon frogbit  (very long roots)
I keep them all and they are fine ussualy under lid.
The general consensus about water movement is if you can see plants gently swaying in the current in all spots of your tank then you have good circulation.
Keeping on top of husbandry and regular water changes is the best way to battle algae.Getting some amano shrimp to help keeping the surfaces clean is something you may consider too.If you use Excel as carbon sorce it should be dosed every day.If U use it only as algaecide then it works best when spot dosed with a syringe with filters off.

Regards Konsa


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## Rodgie (24 Jul 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> If you don't supplement the tank with CO2 gas there is no point to buy dropchecker it wont give U a noticeable reading.If you do you shouldn't be running air driven filters while lights and the CO2 are on as will out gas too much of the CO2.


 
Konsa, thank you for the quick note about the drop checker. Just about using Co2 in a pressurized way, and having a sponge filter. Why is it bad? Is it because the water flow is more of upwards that's why we lose more Co2 that way? And, since I'm just dosing a liquid Excel I shouldn't be affected by this, correct? 

I don't have a lid in my tank anymore, I hope this won't be a problem with the water spangles. 

About amano shrimps, I'll think about it more. Because as of now I have almost a heavy stock already with 4 kuhli loaches, 2 nerites, 1 mystery and a betta. Lastly, I'll start dosing my Excel everyday now. But I have a question, my light turns on at 2pm, and I normally put Excel by 10:50 am before I leave for work. So there's like 3 hours margin that Excel is present but without a light yet. Am I wasting my Co2 this way? Or plants still get it when the lights turns on?


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## Konsa (24 Jul 2017)

Hi
The Co2 being a gas is always trying to escape.By having a airstone on U are breaking the surfase and increasing the gas exchange so aiding that.Liquid carbon sorces are not working on the same principles and there for not affected by the airstone.U can have it on with the Excel there is no outgassing as U adding liquid not gas.The Excel works about 24 hours so as long it is dosed before lights on it will be ok.U not wasting it dosed the way U do.
Regards Konsa


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## Matty123 (24 Jul 2017)

Konsa said:


> Hi
> If you don't supplement the tank with CO2 gas there is no point to buy dropchecker it wont give U a noticeable reading.If you do you shouldn't be running air driven filters while lights and the CO2 are on as will out gas too much of the CO2.
> Getting some floating plants is definitely good idea.They will shade a bit of the light and can be used as a nutrients deficiency indicator as they are not CO2 limited.If your tank is with lid you may have to try few different species and see which will be best for you as some don't like the high humidity.Other good options are dwarf water lettuce and amazon frogbit  (very long roots)
> I keep them all and they are fine ussualy under lid.
> ...



Apologies, I thought he was injecting co2 gas into the tank... 


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## Konsa (24 Jul 2017)

Hi
In addition will say that a bit of algae present is not a big deal and sth quite normal.By what you are writing  seems U are just starting at this amazing hobby and if U have managed to keep the plants alive with some growth on them for 6 months is a good sign.There is loads of usefull articles and topics on here that will help U progress and build up your knowledge.This is an awesome forum and we all here to help
Regards Konsa


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## Rodgie (24 Jul 2017)

Hi again konsa, 

Yes it's been that long so far. And in my tank, plants get new leaves in about every other week. Except the anubias that takes longer. 

I have some green algae on the glass of my tank but they don't bother me too much because their also food for my snails. What I do, is I clean one side every water change (once a week). But it's really the black looking things on the leaves and some leaves in the java fern having brown spots and holes that bugs  me. 

I posted pics. Hopefully you guys can help me diagnose it more. And one more thing. When I look really closely to the leaves, I can see very tiny hair stuff. I don't know if it's build up of germs.


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## Konsa (25 Jul 2017)

Hi
As mentioned before U need to keep yor water clean to prevent debris accumulation(as that gives the algae chance to establish ) on the leaves but that is tricky depending on the livestock selection.
U will be better removing the leaves that are most effected if U can afford it as they will not recover.U can try spot dosing the Excel as I suggested before with filters off for 5-10minutes.Once dead the snails should clear the dead algae.The thing about algae eaters is that they need to be in sufficient numbers to make a difference.The java fern and anubias are feeding only from the water column. 
What exactly are U dosing ferts wise.
Regards Konsa


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## Rodgie (25 Jul 2017)

At the moment I'm dosing Seachem Flourish twice a week. I've been reading in this awesome forums about dry fertz for macro and micro nutrients. I still need to find the right brand so I can start using them. Maybe you know? 

And, my tank with 12-13 gal of water in it, I remove 4 gallons every water change plus vacuuming the substrate (fluorite sand). Should I take out more water? 

My water spangles arrive yesterday so far it's shading good spot for my anubias and java fern. Hopefully this will make a difference too.


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## ian_m (25 Jul 2017)

http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html


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## Konsa (25 Jul 2017)

Hi
I am confident that the floaters will make a difference.Its not only light reduction they do.They are really good pulling amonia out of water column and helping to balance the aquarium.
I am using the ferts that ian_m suggested  too.Having said that if your water is hard you may need to get Fe DTPA or Fe EDDHA which are more stable as I had problem with Iron deficiency in past.
The general rule is to do 50% water change per week.I personally if I have issues with algae or debris build up do more frequently (2-4 50% per week)till I get it under control. The more the better really.It depends how much time and effort you are able to spare.In time when the tank matures and all plants grow in and reach good mass the tank will balance itself and will be more easy to manage.Its not a rocket science really.A bit of common sence not to overstock the tank and experiments with which plants will do well in your particular system.Some wont do well and U may have to replace them.But that is all part of the game.There is nothing like seeing how all the hard work pays off at the end.
Regards Konsa


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## Rodgie (25 Jul 2017)

Thank you konsa for your time and helping me. I guess I'll try doing the 50% now per week. As of debris, I noticed some dead roots from rearranging things before. I tried removing all of them as much as I can. Too bad I can only do once a week WC.

That dry fertz, can I purchase it and deliver it here in New York? And it's payable by US dollar right?

And another thing about my plants, why are the leaves (some of them) have transparent tiny hair stuff? I'm sure this isn't normal. How do I get rid of these?


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## Konsa (26 Jul 2017)

Hi 
You are welcome. 
Im not sure about the fertz.It will be better to email them and ask about it and the postage cost. 
The hair stuff is probably algae.As I said you may try spot treating with your Excel doses using a syringe or remove leaves that are severely affected.
Regards Konsa


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