# How often to deep clean a planted tank?



## Surya (27 Nov 2019)

By "deep clean" I mean lift/remove hardscape to get rid of all the waste organics collected underneath, and thoroughly vacuum the substrate. Rather than a simple weekly water change and glass wipe.

I didn't do this at all for a long time, and the tank looked fine and fish were healthy, but I developed a BBA problem on the wood eventually. I've done a deep clean and sucked out a phenomenal amount of waste. I don't know how often to repeat this - would 6 monthly be too infrequent?


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## Siege (27 Nov 2019)

Do it weekly.

You donot have to remove the hardscape. Instead just a scrub with a small wire brush on the hardscape. Only takes a few mins.

Use a turkey baster to blast up any waste from the substrate to be syphoned away.

A massive water change. 2 on the trot if you’ve disturbed loads of waste organics.

Doesn’t take that long and will help keep the tank nice and healthy!


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## Kalum (27 Nov 2019)

I never lift hardscape but it completely depends on the scape, plants, stocking and if you have any mainly rock or wood in my experience so far

If it's a softer wood then it'll decompose over time and bump up the organics in the tank, harder wood obviously has less of an affect

If you are heavily stocked then obviously expect to have to do it more often

Personally I vacuum the sand or soil that I can get to every week but some places aren't accessible or heavily planted so I usually just use a turkey baster after a big trim and kick up the detritus and take out what I can maybe once every month and I'll do an 80% water change when I do this, then filter and pipe cleaning every 6 weeks or so


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## Geoffrey Rea (27 Nov 2019)

Kalum said:


> If you are heavily stocked then obviously expect to have to do it more often



Completely agree with @Kalum ’s point here and it’s one that gets majorly overlooked. 

One way to save a lot of hassle is to plan your scape with this in mind if it’s your intention to go heavy on stocking.

Have a low area in the scape where all the fish and shrimp waste will naturally fall into and gather. If this area is covered in just a fine layer of sand it’s economical to siphon the lot out; sand, poop and detritus then replace with fresh sand. This helps prevent any accumulation of waste in more difficult to reach places.


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## dw1305 (27 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Surya said:


> By "deep clean" I mean lift/remove hardscape to get rid of all the waste organics collected underneath, and thoroughly vacuum the substrate.


I don't.

cheers Darrel


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## john dory (27 Nov 2019)

Me either.
The tropica soil in my low tech,is about 5 years old..and has never been vacumed


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## Surya (27 Nov 2019)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I don't.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Ooh now this is where I'm so conflicted!! 

I would LOVE to be able to just never move things or vacuum. I suppose I still don't know if the BBA was caused by the excess waste organics. My tank isn't heavily stocked (240l with mostly small tetras - 73% according to Aqadvisor) and the speckled sand (Unipac Samoa Fine) doesn't show the dirt at all, and the fish are very healthy, and I do 75% water changes weekly... It's not the time or effort, it's just I always make a mess of the tank when I try scrubbing / moving / vacuuming things...


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## Kalum (27 Nov 2019)

Even when my sand looks pretty clean as soon as its disturbed it kicks up waste, its surprising how hidden it can be in plain sight on hardscape and substrate until disturbed 

BBA is always an indicator for me that either my co2 isn't stable or it's a waste organics build up


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## dw1305 (27 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Surya said:


> Ooh now this is where I'm so conflicted!!


I just pick out the bigger dead leaves, and then when I change the water I make sure that the syphon doesn't disturb the sand substrate.

I think there are probably microbial advantages to not disturbing the substrate, particularly in terms of the complex microbial flora that may develop in zones of fluctuating REDOX. Stephan Tanner talks about this in <"Biological filtration">.

I have <"tank janitors">, and I don't tend to have many fast growing plants (other than floating ones).





Kalum said:


> it's a waste organics build up


Yes, my experience has definitely been that <"organic build up"> leads to outbreaks of Staghorn Algae, and that is also a Red Algae.

I like having <"complete oxidation in the filter">, I'm not so bothered about a clean substrate.

cheers Darrel


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## MJQMJQ (28 Nov 2019)

I dont deep clean either as its messy and time consuming and might release ammonia from substrate into the tank esp if the substrate layer is deep.


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## MJQMJQ (28 Nov 2019)

Ho


Geoffrey Rea said:


> Completely agree with @Kalum ’s point here and it’s one that gets majorly overlooked.
> 
> One way to save a lot of hassle is to plan your scape with this in mind if it’s your intention to go heavy on stocking.
> 
> Have a low area in the scape where all the fish and shrimp waste will naturally fall into and gather. If this area is covered in just a fine layer of sand it’s economical to siphon the lot out; sand, poop and detritus then replace with fresh sand. This helps prevent any accumulation of waste in more difficult to reach places.


How much lower should it be?


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## MJQMJQ (28 Nov 2019)

Yep 40-50% water change way more than enough.If u have shrimp they prob will die.Fish are more ok but still.


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## Geoffrey Rea (28 Nov 2019)

MJQMJQ said:


> Yep 40-50% water change way more than enough.If u have shrimp they prob will die.Fish are more ok but still.



Depends. I certainly do far less changing of water on my low tech shrimp breeding tank. But that system is minimal fuss and low bioload so anymore is kind of moot. I change water for the opposite outcome to the killing of shrimp, it easily adds calcium and mangnesium to the water due to the tap water qualities where I live. Helps the shrimp with shedding.

The ten high tech systems I help maintain receive up to 90% water change a week. If maintenance is being performed throughout the week then this may happen more than once a week.

Point is the amount is arbitrary. We do clean our high tech tanks, amongst other things, the water change helps prevent the circumstance you outlined before:



MJQMJQ said:


> I dont deep clean either as its messy and time consuming and might release ammonia from substrate into the tank esp if the substrate layer is deep.



The other end of the scale is what @dw1305 outlined:



dw1305 said:


> I think there are probably microbial advantages to not disturbing the substrate, particularly in terms of the complex microbial flora that may develop in zones of fluctuating REDOX. Stephan Tanner talks about this in <"Biological filtration">.
> 
> I have <"tank janitors">, and I don't tend to have many fast growing plants (other than floating ones).



Another way of creating a relatively stable environment with a means to support life. Different methods for dealing with a range of setups; low energy to high energy. An explanation of the qualities of zones of REDOX would be far better served by someone with more knowledge on the matter.



MJQMJQ said:


> How much lower should it be?



Not quite understanding the question. I haven’t seen the OP’s tank so there isn’t really a comparison or judgement I can make here. As for what I do, the sanded area is literally on the bottom glass of the tank and a few mm’s depth. A lot of detritus falls into this area and makes removing it easier (if that’s what you want to do and if it’s necessary).


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## dw1305 (28 Nov 2019)

Hi all, 





Geoffrey Rea said:


> Different methods for dealing with a range of setups; low energy to high energy.


I like simplicity and resilience, mainly because I'm a <"pretty lazy and shoddy aquarist">, I'm never going to have vibrant and aesthetically pleasing tanks.

It is really back to the broad church argument, problems come when people have "faith positions" and are adamant that their management regime, or product, are the only the only way forward, despite of plenty of evidence to the contrary.  





Geoffrey Rea said:


> An explanation of the qualities of zones of REDOX would be ........


I can <"have a go at this one">. There is a more thorough explanation in <"Redox - why don't we.....">. My thoughts would be pretty much the same as Stephan Tanner's in <"Aquarium biofiltration">:





> *Water filtration is teamwork by the members of the substrate microbial community from all domains of life*. This is an important conclusion, both for freshwater and marine habitats. The different players form a food web, where *most organisms cannot exist alone but are interdependent*. The microbial community varies greatly depending on the availability of foods, pore sizes, and substrates. Soil biofiltration is therefore very plastic, meaning it can cope with a variety of conditions. However, one feature is common. *Natural layers of biofiltration are usually undisturbed for longer periods of time (many weeks and months).* In nature, no one squeezes out the debris or rinses the media on a weekly schedule.


cheers Darrel


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## deadlus3d (28 Nov 2019)

Hi on the subject of cleaning which syphon is best to use?


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## Zeus. (28 Nov 2019)

I Normally Turkey blast the substrate every week along with cleaning the filter in my 500l high tech tank alongside a 50% WC takes 2-3hrs more sometimes, remove some of the hardscape when needed maybe twice a year but some cant be removed and its been in place for 3yrs.



deadlus3d said:


> which syphon is best to use?



the Dennerle Nano Gravel Cleaner is a great piece of kit IMO


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## mort (28 Nov 2019)

I'm another who doesn't deep clean. My tank has been setup with tropica soil topped with jbl manado and it's sat there for six years undisturbed. It's very low tech, lightly stocked (15 pencilfish in 120l) with an army of cherry shrimp. It gets direct sunlight and only a slight amount of blue green algae on the glass under the substrate where the sunlight hits (back of the tank so I don't see it, rest of the tank is spotless), so I don't know if it means there is potential for more should the light level increase but the plants seem happy with the nutrients.
If this wasn't a jungle tank then perhaps it would need more maintenence.


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## SRP3006 (28 Nov 2019)

I've suffered a little with bba recently and I believe that's partly down to me not removing damaged plants and rotting leaves and not deep cleaning enough.



Zeus. said:


> the Dennerle Nano Gravel Cleaner is a great piece of kit IMO
> View attachment 129415



I like the look of this bit of kit, @Zeus do you use this on your 500 litre?


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## Kalum (28 Nov 2019)

Zeus. said:


> the Dennerle Nano Gravel Cleaner is a great piece of kit IMO
> View attachment 129415



I've used this as well and it's still the best one I've had and great for getting in tight spaces, the push button split on me after a year and I replaced it with a fluval one and it's very poor in comparison to the dennerle one, keen meaning to get one again


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## SRP3006 (28 Nov 2019)

I'm guessing you can just use it along side your normal water change python? So you can syphon the substrate whilst the other pipe removes the water.


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## Surya (28 Nov 2019)

Big water changes work for my tank, been doing them religiously every week for years and fish are incredibly healthy and long lived, breeding like crazy etc. I don't have shrimp and parameters are matched. Clean water = good IME  Every tank is different of course, do what works for you.

I will experiment with different approaches eg the turkey baster. Got one in the Christmas box which is coming out on Sunday...


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## DeepMetropolis (28 Nov 2019)

I don't deep clean any soil substrate. I just vac around the stones where detritus builds up and where there is cosmetic sand and top it off with some new now and then.. Just shake all your plants thorough blast mosses/carpets with a turkey blaster and remove dead plant's/leaves. Just try to keep up with weekly water changes keep your co2 stable if you have any, and not too long light on 8hrs is good enough.


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## MJQMJQ (29 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Depends. I certainly do far less changing of water on my low tech shrimp breeding tank. But that system is minimal fuss and low bioload so anymore is kind of moot. I change water for the opposite outcome to the killing of shrimp, it easily adds calcium and mangnesium to the water due to the tap water qualities where I live. Helps the shrimp with shedding.
> 
> The ten high tech systems I help maintain receive up to 90% water change a week. If maintenance is being performed throughout the week then this may happen more than once a week.
> 
> ...


90% water change?I use dechlorinated tap water and the ph can fluctuate by abt 1 so not possible for me.Are u using ro/di water?


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

9 tanks tap water (very high gH and kH, over 400ppm TDS) and 1 tank RO/tap mix to 120ppm TDS @MJQMJQ


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## Parablennius (29 Nov 2019)

I havn't deep cleaned my current tank in its 3+1/2 yrs. flow is sufficient to carry any detritus over the weir where it's filtered out.
When I used to clean substrate in other systems, this was the best tool ever and it's home made. Cheap as chips. Airlift tube from a U/G filter plate, reduced to a smaller bore pipe. This allows you to probe the large bore down into the substrate, which "boils" around but doesn't get sucked up due to the reduced flow but the detritus will syphon out.


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## MJQMJQ (29 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> 9 tanks tap water (very high gH and kH, over 400ppm TDS) and 1 tank RO/tap mix to 120ppm TDS @MJQMJQ


Im guessing you keep easy fish like neon tetra?If not Im so envious.My shrimp hates it sometimes even when 50% water change is done.


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## Geoffrey Rea (29 Nov 2019)

Don’t want to hijack the thread so will restrict this to one post.



MJQMJQ said:


> My shrimp hates it sometimes even when 50% water change is done.



What are you using as evidence that your shrimp hate large volume water changes?

Are they perishing? Or just going into hiding? If it’s the latter Amano and Cherry shrimp can/do moult with an influx of available calcium in the tap water and whilst vulnerable, without a hardened outer shell, seek shelter until it is regrown. This could be misinterpreted as being unhappy but is natural behaviour and a necessary process for them to grow.

I only ask as rather than looking to estimating a change in pH as a cause for a behaviour there are many alternative explanations to explore, unless they are perishing. Not saying you should ignore your personal judgement as your tap water and mine will be very different no doubt. For example, there could be a high amount of metaldehyde in tap water from agricultural run off, that shouldn’t be ignored if you intend to keep invertebrates in aquaria.

Another regular claim all over the net and on YouTube is that glutaraldehyde causes shrimp deaths. No one seems to correlate a very clean tank/plants/surfaces with less food/aufwuchs as a food source; less food for a colony of shrimp, potentially less shrimp...

Caveats to this are having a very heavily planted tank, with hardscape etc gives a mammoth surface area to graze. Putting glutaraldehyde into a sparsely planted tank is a very different scenario and will have a greater effect proportionately on food availability for your shrimp.


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## Zeus. (29 Nov 2019)

SRP3006 said:


> I've suffered a little with bba recently and I believe that's partly down to me not removing damaged plants and rotting leaves and not deep cleaning enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the look of this bit of kit, @Zeus do you use this on your 500 litre?



Yes and No- I mainly just use the turkey blaster on my 500l with it being braced, but the turkey blasting does tend to move the AS and it gets to the lowest part of the tank near the glass, then I do find then the  Dennerle Nano Gravel Cleaner comes in very handy to suck the AS up and reposition it elsewhere in the tank


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## MJQMJQ (30 Nov 2019)

Geoffrey Rea said:


> Don’t want to hijack the thread so will restrict this to one post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Failed moults and dead shrimp I cant match the parameters exactly so yea.


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## Authur11 (22 Oct 2021)

Steps to Clean Old Aquarium Gravel: Step one is the standard cleaning solution: about 10% bleach and 90% hot or warm water, or you can use a lower concentration of bleach to be safe for fish after that. The second step is to put the fish gravel in the pot plus the bleach solution, pour the water to cover the gravel. Soak the gravel for no more than a quarter of an hour, during which time you can stir to irritate the cleaning solution. The fourth step is to rinse the aquarium gravel and then dry it. Finally, return it to the aquarium.


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## dw1305 (22 Oct 2021)

Hi all,


Authur11 said:


> Step one is the standard cleaning solution: about 10% bleach and 90% hot or warm water, or you can use a lower concentration of bleach to be safe for fish after that. The second step is to put the fish gravel in the pot plus the bleach solution, pour the water to cover the gravel. Soak the gravel for no more than a quarter of an hour, during which time you can stir to irritate the cleaning solution. The fourth step is to rinse the aquarium gravel and then dry it. Finally, return it to the aquarium.


Welcome to UKAPS.  You can just rinse the gravel, you don't need the bleach. If you do use bleach you can sun-dry the gravel afterwards or use a de-chlorinator. Gravel is inert because it is mainly quartz (SiO2) which is hard and impermeable.

One of the reasons I'm not keen on gravel is that organic debris can fall into the gaps between grains, while with sand it tends to sit on top and can be syphoned out from above the substrate. These days I like <"an undisturbed substrate">, this follows the reasoning of <"Stephan Tanner"> CEO of "Swiss Tropicals".

cheers Darrel


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## azawaza (23 Oct 2021)

I wonder if your fish think of ‘deep clean’ as when I think of drrrrrrrrr (shudders!) while my dentist says ‘relax, just a deep clean’.


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## Authur11 (31 Oct 2021)

Authur11 said:


> Steps to Clean Old Aquarium Gravel: Step one is the standard cleaning solution: about 10% bleach and 90% hot or warm water, or you can use a lower concentration of bleach to be safe for fish after that. The second step is to put the fish gravel in the pot plus the bleach solution, pour the water to cover the gravel. Soak the gravel for no more than a quarter of an hour, during which time you can stir to irritate the cleaning solution. The fourth step is to rinse the aquarium gravel and then dry it. Finally, return it to the aquarium.


Gravel open the way for the growth and development of a specific bacteria that is beneficial to aquatic life. But sometimes it also harms your fish. I recommend cleaning it to keep the balance of the ecosystem.


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## Hufsa (31 Oct 2021)

Authur11 said:


> Gravel open the way for the growth and development of a specific bacteria that is beneficial to aquatic life. But sometimes it also harms your fish. I recommend cleaning it to keep the balance of the ecosystem.


How is it a balanced ecosystem if you bleach the daylights out of the substrate?


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## ceg4048 (1 Nov 2021)

Surya said:


> I didn't do this at all for a long time, and the tank looked fine and fish were healthy, but I developed a BBA problem on the wood eventually. I've done a deep clean and sucked out a phenomenal amount of waste. I don't know how often to repeat this - would 6 monthly be too infrequent?


Hello,
         BBA is a CO2 related algae. It is not directly related to sediment waste buildup. Dirty sediments in a CO2 enriched tank however can contribute to some types of algal blooms since there is a high ammonia content in the sediment. If the sediment is disturbed at a time other than during water change time this could help to trigger some types of algal blooms such as staghorn or green water - especially if the lighting is strong.
If this is a CO2 enriched tank then it is always a good idea to occasionally vacuum the substrate using any of the devices mentioned by other posters. If the bottom surface is covered with carpet plants, then obviously vacuuming is not possible.
Also, it's not necessary to vacuum the entire surface in one go. Vacuum small areas during successive water changes. I don't think weekly is necessary though. Just keep it simple. The waste buildup in a CO2 tank can be many times greater than in a non-enriched tank. That's why it's recommended for CO2 tanks but not for low tech tanks. 

The main point is to not bust a gut cleaning gravel. Do it when you feel you have the energy and are motivated to do it.

BBA in a CO2 tank means you should examine your flow/distribution and gas ON timing relative to lights ON schedule. Injection rate and dissolution technique should also be investigated. Perform very large and frequent water changes. Excel or equivalent can be dosed daily until the BBA tufts turn from black/gray to pink/purple. If you have not fixed your CO2 however, the tufts will reappear. Review the Algae sub-forum for details. There are many threads there discussing BBA.

BBA in a non-enriched tank is a lot more difficult simply because there are fewer options other than to reduce the lighting and to perform a lot of large water changes. Excel can also be used, however, again, if the root cause has not been fixed, the tufts will reappear.

Cheers,


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