# Dan's Vivarium...



## Dan Crawford (7 Jul 2009)

Hey guys, On Sunday i got myself a Poison Dart Frog - _Dendrobate leucomelas_ and it's way cool. I got a cheap, craked Clear Seal viv at about 40 x 40 x 30 and scaped it up using local mosses and Blue Stone from TGM. It took about 30 minutes to do and i love it. I'm gonna resape it soon with Crypts, Christmas moss, Narrow ferns and maybe some stems. I just wanna monitor the humidity for a bit to see how humid it will stay etc.
Anyway, here it is.....


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## Steve Smith (7 Jul 2009)

Hey Dan, that's ace!  How are you keeping humidity up?


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jul 2009)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> How are you keeping humidity up?


Cheers mate, well i've built a waterfall, i have clay pebbles at the bottom topped with peat so there is plenty of moisture. Oh, of corse....i took the front glass out for the photo, sorry i should have said, so it's not hard. I have a humidity meter in there so i'll check it when i get home.


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## a1Matt (7 Jul 2009)

Waterfalls are like heaven to mosses! very nice 
(is that some holger moss I spotted on the second pic...)


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jul 2009)

a1Matt said:
			
		

> (is that some holger moss I spotted on the second pic...)


Not yet brother, will be in there by the end of the week though!


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## Tony Swinney (7 Jul 2009)

Tremendous


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## Dave Spencer (7 Jul 2009)

A properly scaped viv....coolamundo! Can`t wait to see how this turns out.

Dave.


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## AdAndrews (7 Jul 2009)

Looks awesome, makes me want to get one!


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## Joecoral (7 Jul 2009)

That looks fantastic, I love it! No licking the frog tho


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## aaronnorth (7 Jul 2009)

that is awesome, one of the best i have seen. Well done


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jul 2009)

Joecoral said:
			
		

> That looks fantastic, I love it! No licking the frog tho


Ha, i have thought about it LOL


			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> A properly scaped viv....coolamundo! Can`t wait to see how this turns out.


I can't stop thinkin about it, i'm gonna redo it tonight i recon, use some fossilised wood to match the background and make a proper "pond" for the waterfall.


			
				AdAndrews said:
			
		

> Looks awesome, makes me want to get one!


Jeremy gay had an awesome one, much bigger and it fascinated me, thats why I got one!


			
				Tonser said:
			
		

> Tremendous


Cheers mate 


			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> that is awesome, one of the best i have seen. Well done


Thanks mate


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## GreenNeedle (7 Jul 2009)

definately impressed.  Frog looks cool.  Makes me wish I didn't have fiddly curious very young kids.  Maybe I can sell them on ebay 

Would love to see a full tank shot now and after full scaping 

AC


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## Dan Crawford (7 Jul 2009)

Thanks mate!


			
				SuperColey1 said:
			
		

> Would love to see a full tank shot now and after full scaping


Will do


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## squiggley (7 Jul 2009)

Brilliant.

Love those little frogs.  Have been wanting to set one up myself for a long time but the otherhalf seems to have suddenly grown an adversion to them.


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## George Farmer (7 Jul 2009)

Brilliant mate!!   I love it.

You'll have to hide the frog next time I visit, to stop me from licking it!!


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## LondonDragon (7 Jul 2009)

Looks great Dan, I have thought about one of these for ages too, even spotted them at the place we visited on Saturday, any chance of some full shots to show the setup?? Cheers


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## John Starkey (7 Jul 2009)

Hey danielson,
That looks awesome,I've often thought about doing a viv ever since I visited the blue planet,
Don't know how the wife would react though,I'll come over sometime to see it.

Take care mate,
John.


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## Stu Worrall (7 Jul 2009)

wow! looks like a cool home for the frog, hes got great colours.


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## rawr (7 Jul 2009)

Wow, this is great! I didn't know vivariums could look so good and you could grow aquatic plants in them. I've always fancied one and this is making me want one more. How did you create the waterfall? Is that the only thing keeping humidity up? And also, how does this keep all the plants wet etc? Is the substrate kept constantly wet? I thought the tank would overflow...

Are these frogs easy to keep then? What do you feed them on?

Nice one.


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## TDI-line (7 Jul 2009)

Very nice Dan, but i'm struggling to see the frog.


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## Themuleous (7 Jul 2009)

That is dam sweet Dan, proper sweet.  How hard to keep is the frog?  Easy to feed?  Humidity easy to control?

Mad I'd love one of those.

Sam

EDIT - Dam you Dan!  I know I'd be for a hiding if I got one without Biz's permission!  Perhaps once the nano is free


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## aaronnorth (7 Jul 2009)

TDI-line said:
			
		

> Very nice Dan, but i'm struggling to see the frog.



the first picture is of the frog  or do you mean in the viv?


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## samc (7 Jul 2009)

im interested in doing one myself.......damn you 

how much was your frog?


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## TDI-line (8 Jul 2009)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> TDI-line said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ahh, it's come up now, i was only get the 2nd and 3rd pics before,

Man that is amazing, Dan will be entering the Croaker parade now, from the League of Gentlemen.


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Hey guys, thanks for all the kind words!


			
				samc said:
			
		

> how much was your frog?


It was Â£50


			
				Themuleous said:
			
		

> How hard to keep is the frog? Easy to feed? Humidity easy to control?


He's easy to keep, i don't do anything, just feed him flightless fruit flies. I haven't had to do anything to keep the humidity up, the moisture in the soil keeps it up i presume, it's stayed around 70-80% and all the plants are saturated.


			
				rawr said:
			
		

> How did you create the waterfall?


It's just a powerhead from a Juwel Rekord 60 internal filter and some garden hose. There is about 4cm of water in the bottom of the tank which is full of clay pebbles and topped with peat, it runs out every other day and i just top it up, easy. I'm gonna re-design it tonight though, get real creative, i was gonna do it last night but i never spent the night at home LOL


			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> any chance of some full shots to show the setup??


I'll get one tonight.

I'm drilling a massive piece of fossilised wood tonight for the waterfall, should be interesting!

For lighting i'm using the AquaFX LEDs that i reviewed for PFK, if you didn't read it, they didn't get a good review LOL THe batteries have ran out in the zapper/controller so i can't stop it from changing colour, i have to wait about two minutes for it to go through an eight colour cycle before i can take another shot, plays havock with the white balance  

These are worth investigating guys, it's like aquascaping - but without the algae worries


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## Themuleous (8 Jul 2009)

Quality.  Once I've lost another tank I might have to look into these beauties 

Sam


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

Â£50 seems alot to me but i dont know much about them. i was looking at the red eyed tree frogs they have allways been a favorite of mine, have you seen them about? and how much? iv read that they are $20-$50 in dollars but not sure about here as they come from parts of america


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Â£50 is the cheapest Dendrobate (thats why i have one LOL) they go up to about Â£200.

The Tree Frogs need a big viv because they jump quite far and like to be as high up as possible. I'm just discussing a possible new project with my Master (Jeremy) and we're talking about Tree Frogs coz the viv will be massive!
I'm not sure how much they cost, sorry.


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

the tank i was going to use is 30in long and 15 tall which isnt that tall but have read that that would be ok.


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Most vivs are taller than they are wide, there's a reason for it. You may be ok but you may need to do a load of research as the main thing i've heard about them is, they need a tall vivarium. I've not researched Tree Frogs specifically though but this is all i've heard.


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

iv heard the same, i might get a second hand one if theres a cheap one as it will be alot better for viewing too.


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Why not turn your tank on it's end and "make" and acrylic door for it


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

thats what i was thinking but then iv got no lighting

hmmmmmm......


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Yeah, worth thinking about


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## Graeme Edwards (8 Jul 2009)

Not sure its a good option, unless you make sure you get some ventilation. If you don't you can have mold problems, and in turn this can do your frogs harm. 

Cheers.


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Good point, most vivs have mesh for a roof which obviously lets light in and ventilates at the same time, many have ventilation at the bottom of the front pane too, hhmmmmm.

I've just looked for tree frogs and they're in the region of Â£75.


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

shame they are so much. ill have a look at places near me to see if they are any different


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## samc (8 Jul 2009)

just rang baytree garden centre in spalding as they stick them and said about Â£55 but they are out of stock at the mo

ps. sorry for the hijack


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## Dan Crawford (8 Jul 2009)

Happy days, i could have popped in there at the weekend if i'd known.


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## AdAndrews (8 Jul 2009)

ive never really payed attention to the reptile/amphibian side of things all the time i have been to my lps, but i have just found their stocklist for frogs: http://www.prestwoodpetzone.com/amphibi ... -list.html
makes me want one, i will be sure to look next time i go in


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## squiggley (8 Jul 2009)

Here's another site for you

http://dartfrog.co.uk/amphibians.html


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## Dan Crawford (9 Jul 2009)

squiggley said:
			
		

> Here's another site for you
> 
> http://dartfrog.co.uk/amphibians.html


Cheers Squiggley, thats a cracking site, thats what i've been using lately.

I've been chatting to Shirley Aquatics in Oxford and they have loads of frogs in so that looks like the place to go, although they're mightily expensive compared to various websites.


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## johnny70 (9 Jul 2009)

Great set up Dan, can't wait to see the whole thing


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## Roy S (14 Aug 2009)

Hi Dan, just noticed this thread, and thought I'd mention I keep dart frogs too. Great viv you've put together there. Leucs are a pretty small dart frog and will do fine in a smallish viv. If you want to get any more Dendro's the going rate for leucs is normally around the Â£20 mark for juveniles/small adults...they are great frogs, full of character   
Have you thought about auratus, or tincs?..again nice sized frogs and easy to keep.

Best place to get hold of frogs is at frog meets organised by the dendroworld forum, members normally have leucs, tincs and auratus among others, for far more sensible prices not to mention ventilated vivs and plants too
I'll post a link if anyone wants it and its not breaking any forum etiquette?

heres a few pics of mine, hope you dont mind me posting them especially for my first real post   

Blue Sipilawini Tinctorius (_Dendrobates tinctorius_)





Isla Colon (_Oophaga pumilio_)





and a nice Rio brancos pumilio (_Oophaga pumilio_





An one of my favourite thumbnail dart frogs is the amazonicus...heres one I raised myself





To give you an idea of how big she was when she morphed heres a pic just after she left the water!!





and NOPE that isnt a trick 10p thats a foot across   it was that small!!!...shes only around three times that size now


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## Garuf (14 Aug 2009)

Dan, how are you heating this? I'm about to set my cube up as a viv for crabs and Ideally I'd like an undertank heater but I honestly haven't a clue if such a thing exsisits?


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## Ed Seeley (14 Aug 2009)

Roy S said:
			
		

> I'll post a link if anyone wants it and its not breaking any forum etiquette?



Posting links (that aren't spamming or blatant commercial profiteering!) is fine!  Personally I'd love to see it as I've always wanted to have a tank of poison arrow frogs at school in my class at school!!!

Cracking frogs too!  Are the strawberry ones (_Oophaga pumilio_ apparently) easy to source in the UK?


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## Dan Crawford (14 Aug 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Dan, how are you heating this? I'm about to set my cube up as a viv for crabs and Ideally I'd like an undertank heater but I honestly haven't a clue if such a thing exsisits?


I'm not mate, sadly, i've had to break it down as my frog has escaped  He must have jumped out whilst installing some lighting, i can see no other way it could get out!

Thanks for that info Roy and our frogs look great. I'm certainly gonna be buying some more so feel free to post away, i think a few other people would be into it if they could get frogs a little cheaper too. Posting to other sites isn't against our rules, as long as it's posted to help the members.


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## Garuf (14 Aug 2009)

Are you not concerned about having a poisonous frog knocking about in your house? I would be. Shame you broke it down, I'd have kept it going and just got another frog.


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## Dan Crawford (14 Aug 2009)

I aint scared pal, i'm double hard  I've handled it before and i'm still here  

It is a shame i broke it down, i learned a few lessons from it and now have a custom built 60d x 80w x 1220h plan in the making to replace my 80cm tank  i'll be sure to keep you all informed of the progress but it's an expensive old game so it's gonna take a while.


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## Garuf (14 Aug 2009)

They climb in your mouth while you're asleep, that's how the kill. 

Sounds good, if expensive, I'm guessing with all that hight you're getting a arboreal species?


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## Ed Seeley (14 Aug 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Are you not concerned about having a poisonous frog knocking about in your house? I would be. Shame you broke it down, I'd have kept it going and just got another frog.



Captive bred ones aren't poisonous - it's only in the wild that they develop the toxins  At least that's what I was told when I was looking into getting some for a tank at school.


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## Dan Crawford (14 Aug 2009)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I'm guessing with all that hight you're getting a arboreal species?


You got it mate, all sorts. Oh, and it'll have 30 x 60 x 80cm of water at the bottom for a shoal of cardinals or similar, it's gonna be so sweet


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## Roy S (14 Aug 2009)

Sad to hear about the leuc, but it happens to the best at times. The dart frog hobby like aquascaping can be as cheap or expensive as you want to make it.

the forum I was on about is 

dendroworld.co.uk

It has regular meets with people selling everything from custom made vivs to plants and frogs...not to mention all the equipment to set up the vivs too.

Ed, pum's are getting easier and easier to obtain now, with more captive breedings going on all the time, I've got my fingers crossed in the near future I'll have some Isla Colon and Bri Bri pumilio froglets appearing  8) 

You are right about captive bred darts being relatively non toxic, they sythesise the toxic alkaloids from mites and ants in their natural diets, something that isnt possible in captivity. only a couple of dart frogs are truly life threatening though, and these to my knowledge aren't available as wild caught specimens I suppose for obvious reasons!    

I heat mine over really cold nights with heatmats underneath the vivs, most of the time they are just at room temperature aided by heat from the lighting. Ventilation is underneath the sliding glass front doors and top of the viv, creating a flow past the glass that prevents the glass misting up.

Vivs can be picked up pretty cheaply, mine cost me Â£15 each for proper dart frog vivs at one of the dendroworld meets, and I think there is someone selling some vivs at the moment in the for sale section on there. If I can help anyone out with anything about them let me know, it would be nice to help out people on a forum that has certainly helped me in the last year  8)


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## Dan Crawford (14 Aug 2009)

Well you certainly know your stuff Roy! I can see your inbox filling up when i start my new project


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## Ed Seeley (14 Aug 2009)

I'll be in touch too if I can persuade my Head that a tank full of poison arrow frogs will be the perfect thing for our new environmental classroom!


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## squiggley (14 Aug 2009)

Roy S said:
			
		

> the forum I was on about is
> 
> dendroworld.co.uk



I tried to register at this site a while back, but because of spamming issues you have to contact the site admin to do it. But even after providing my details they requested I still can't access the site


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## Roy S (14 Aug 2009)

squiggley said:
			
		

> Roy S said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know Jon the Admin had major issues with spamming a little while back but it shouldnt be an issue now, 'll get in touch with him and see if there are any problems.

Ed, good species for the classroom would be leucomelas like Dans, or any of the tinctorius group both these are very bold and inquisitive, also very easy to look after. They also have the added bonus of being among the easier to breed.
You could also add auratus to the list but they tend to be a bit more secretive.

All will feed on large and small fruit flies, also lesser waxworms and bean beetles add to thier diet and are very easy to culture.


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## a1Matt (14 Aug 2009)

Roy S said:
			
		

> Isla Colon (_Oophaga pumilio_)



Roy~ This picture is stunning.  If you could send me the full size pic I would love to have it as my wallpaper  
Dan~ Shame your setup has been torn down, but looking forward to the next one


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## aaronnorth (15 Aug 2009)

i cant believe how small that frog is Roy  
beautiful frogs & photography.  
Thanks, Aaron


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## squiggley (15 Aug 2009)

I'm slowly convincing my other half about them, but I think that the photo on the 10 pence was the clincher she thought they were a lot bigger.

She still squeems a bit when they show the advert for Paignton zoo when the frog appears, but I think that it now for the kids effect. We're off there at the end of the month so hopefully seeing them in the flesh will finally turn her. (I hope)


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