# Epiphytic Fern



## Tim Harrison (17 Nov 2017)

Went for a stroll in my local woodland the other day and spied this fern growing epiphytically on a tree bough, along with moss...


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## zozo (17 Nov 2017)

Nice find!!  Looks like a Polypodium (vulgare), we call it also Oakfern. Tho i nver saw it around in the woods near my place. Would love to have one in the garden. Evergreen..


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## Cor (17 Nov 2017)

Nice one.
I love ferns, worked for 25 years inside greenhouses full of them.
This is my favorite: Adiantum tenerum 'Scutum Roseum'. The pink/red variation of Adiantum tenerum 'Fragrans' aka Maidenhair.


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## Tim Harrison (17 Nov 2017)

zozo said:


> Looks like a Polypodium (vulgare), we call it also Oakfern.


Thanks Marcel, that would fit nicely, the woodland is predominantly oak. _P. vulgare_ is apparently calcifugous, so I guess all those oak leaves make for an acidic top soil, despite the drift geology being heavy clay which usually has a high pH...although that could be why it's up a tree https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypodium_vulgare  

Thanks @Cor, maidenhair is one of my favourites as well, had one growing as a house plant once. I also remember being surprised to see one growing at the top of a grated drain manhole in a Moroccan rose farm.


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## zozo (17 Nov 2017)

I'm not very familiar with this fern spp, in our country especialy my region it's a rarety to find. Been a lot in the Belgium Rocky Ardennes and there it's a common fern growing on epiphytic rocks etc. So if it's a vulgare? is just a guess, it's a large family... The P. interjectum is very simular it seems..  But has broader leaves..


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## Tim Harrison (17 Nov 2017)

zozo said:


> So if it's a vulgare? is just a guess, it's a large family... The P. interjectum is very simular it seems..


Haha...I don't know ...maybe Darrel will be able to identify it.


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## zozo (17 Nov 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> maybe Darrel will be able to identify it.


I bet he does..


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## dw1305 (17 Nov 2017)

Hi all,





zozo said:


> I bet he does.


I don't, definitely part of the _Polypodium vulgare_ aggregate of species, after that <"it is a bit tricky">.

As you go North and West in the UK they (_Polypodium vulgare _agg.) become more common and spread out of the woods onto walls, rocks, sand dunes etc.

cheers Darrel


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## Tim Harrison (18 Nov 2017)

Thanks Darrel, that's good enough for me.
Good guess Marcel, although I suspect it was a very well educated one


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## zozo (18 Nov 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> Good guess Marcel, although I suspect it was a very well educated one


Thanks, but to be honnest, not a "very" educated one maybe rather a little, since i don't realy stral around in the woods with a field guide trying to identify ferns. It's next to mosses the most difficult determination to make. So sometimes i get lucky with geussing the correct family. Since i look around for native evergreens i like to have in the garden i do remember pics and leafshapes sometimes when i see one. So did your pic, i recalled seeing it before and still beeing on my wishlist.


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## foxfish (18 Nov 2017)

Interesting Tim, not uncommon where I live to see ferns growing on moss covered trees but we also get New Zealand Palm trees (cordyline) growing on trees.
I have several small ones in my garden but in some of our parks there are old trees with 6' tall palms growing in their boughs. Sometimes 30' up....


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## Tim Harrison (18 Nov 2017)

That sounds pretty weird. I once saw a silver birch sapling growing out of the crook of an old oak trunk at Chartley Moss NNR; I've got a picture of it somewhere.
That was weird as well, but then again the whole place is alien. It's the largest example of a floating peat bog in Britain.

You can jump up and down, on what at first appears to be terra firma, only to find the ground moving under your feet like you're standing on a water bed  hence it's alternative name Schwingmoor or quaking bog...it's actually a thick vegetative mat over deep water. If you ever go there stick to the path and don't jump up and down incase you've accidentally strayed on to a thin patch...aside from that if you're caught you'll get told off for damaging the habitat ...


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## zozo (18 Nov 2017)

If you like wierd places with ferns and mosses and you ever go to Canary islands for holiday. I know a lot of Brits do, at least last time i was there i lost count. Than hop on a fery for 30 minutes to La Gomera.. Little strange island with 2 different climates. 1 is dry to the bone, and over the mountain it's damp and foggy tropical Laurel forests full with mosses and ferns.. Kinda odd like walking into a Jurasic park scenery expecting a dino to pop up from behind a tree at any moment. Especialy for aquascapers i think this is a very inspiring park to investigate..


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## Tim Harrison (18 Nov 2017)

An amazing place for sure...classic forest scape inspiration, right down to the disappearing path/stream.


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## dw1305 (19 Nov 2017)

Hi all, 





Tim Harrison said:


> That sounds pretty weird. I once saw a silver birch sapling growing out of the crook of an old oak trunk at Chartley Moss NNR; I've got a picture of it somewhere.
> That was weird as well, but then again the whole place is alien.


I like a good peat bog. You often get Holly trees growing on other trees as well. 





foxfish said:


> but we also get New Zealand Palm trees (cordyline) growing on trees.


I've seen this in S. Ireland as well, I don't know if any NZ members can tell us whether it happens in NZ? 

As you get further west in the UK you get more and more different epiphytes.  (This is <"Wistman's wood"> on Dartmoor).



 

Trees that start as epiphytes are common in the wet tropics, like the "Strangler" Figs.  From <"New plant Zongo"> 



 

cheers Darrel


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## foxfish (19 Nov 2017)

We spent a few mouths in New Zealand earlier this year, I am having issues posting pics at the moment. I cant upload form my ipad?


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## foxfish (19 Nov 2017)

I get this.... any ideas as I have not had this before?


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## zozo (19 Nov 2017)

Yes i recall having this with one particuler picture, just don't remember if it was here at UKAPS.. Opened it with MSPaint, cut off a small piece and saved it again as .jpg. Than it was ok.. I guess it is something in the metadate hidden in the file.  But it looks like yu're using the Ipad, so no idea if this has an image editor..


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## foxfish (19 Nov 2017)

OK, well while I try and sort the NZ pics here are a few ferns in my teterium set up..


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## foxfish (5 Dec 2017)




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## Edvet (6 Dec 2017)

Love treeferns
Like the vivarium too


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2017)

Crikey, you look like David Bellamy hanging out in his natural habitat 
Looks like a magical place


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

Edvet said:


> Love treeferns
> Like the vivarium too


Ed, the vivarium is really an experiment, I had read many post about using moss picked from the garden & used in a tropical vivarium.
I set up the tank approximately 14 months ago, it contains lots of moss & liverworts that I have collected from around my area.
So far they have all thrived & some have to be cut back weekly.
In many instances I have local moss mixed in with Java & Christmas moss, all intermingled & seemingly happy!
From what I have read, this might not last much longer as some folk say temperate moss needs a winter rest period?
However other folk say it could last much longer, I thought the best way to find out was by this experiment.
Any which way, I have (only yesterday) started to build a new vivarium that will be 80 x 80 x100cm. I hope to use local moss it that one too.
I plan to use two large branches that I will shape and hollow out but, I will start a new thread about that when the time comes....


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

foxfish said:


> temperate moss needs a winter rest period?



Funny, i wonder what makes them says that. i got a lot of moss in my damp north oriented garden, moss that grows there dries out, declines and rests in the warm bright and dry summers and it commes back to live and thrives in the cold wet darker days of the fall.

In september this year, this piece of wood maybe had 10% of moss compaired to what it has now and it was rather strugling. Today in december and it still growing like mad.  In my experience temperate moss doesn't like it warm and hates bright light, that's why i'm always strugling to make it grow fast indoors. I guess it's more spieces depended how it handles invironmental parameters.





I'm preparing this piece of wood outdoor for an indoor project..  And afraid it will fail again when i take it indoors..


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## Edvet (6 Dec 2017)

Not sure it's temperature and light, could it be humidity?


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

Exactly my point, some say yes some say no, so it must be species dependant.
I keep my viv at around 21c but it rise to around 23c just before lights off.
I use two 70w metal halides and 50w of LED.
Here is some mixed tropical and guernsey garden moss...


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

Edvet said:


> Not sure it's temperature and light, could it be humidity?


Both kinda go hand in hand whit humidity, certainly plays a role. Artificial light usualy radiates warmth creating drought..But if i take patches of healthy growing moss indoors put it in a constant humid spot it stil doesn't grow as fast as it does outdoors. I can only guess why.


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## Edvet (6 Dec 2017)

foxfish said:


> guernsey garden moss.


Well Guernsey is tropical isn't it
GEt some small leafed Ficus covering the sides: Ficus pumila var. Minuta


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

I have a Terrerium shop very close to home, 5 minutes on the bicycle.
https://www.dutchrana.nl/en/
He has a nice greenhouse growing Orhids, ferns etc etc. With it on the plants media usualy wood and sphagnum it grows the most beautifull mosses, some stunning wana haves i've never seen before. To get them i would need to buy the complete plant, that's what still is holding me back, buying a € 20 plant only for the moss growing with it. Yet i do not have the paludarium i which for. Still a work in progress on paper..

But i asked the guy, why he doesn't nurse mosses, there definitively must be a market for it.. And he said yes indeed, but many tried and non realy succeeded. Nursing moss commercialy is most difficult.. It thrives and all of a sudden for yet unknown reason about all dies. Nobody yet did find the mystery about it, that's what makes live mosses so rare in the trade. He says you just have to take them for granted, they come and go as they please. What you see is what you get, if you get a beautifull one your just lucky.


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

I saw a lovely living wall at Heathrow Airport


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)




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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

Edvet said:


> Well Guernsey is tropical isn't it
> GEt some small leafed Ficus covering the sides: Ficus pumila var. Minuta


I have a vision of a completely covered background walls with a epiphytic covered branch in the centre of my new viv .
I would prefer a complete moss wall. It would seem the liquidised moss & yogurt applied over capillary cloth is  method to achieve this. 
I was really hoping to use local moss for this purpose mainly due to the quantities involved.
Like I say, I have had my garden moss growing for 13-14 months now but I would hate to see a complete die off in my new build.


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## Edvet (6 Dec 2017)

Or use treefern slabs (http://frogsandmore.nl/moss/)


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

Tree ferns are very popular where I live, a big one can cost a lot of money but we now have them growing wild in several locations.
I have a couple in my garden too...


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## Edvet (6 Dec 2017)

Those guys use dead ones, recycling


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

Edvet said:


> Or use treefern slabs (http://frogsandmore.nl/moss/)


Thanks for that link..  I've been looking around for those half round fern stems all over, couldn't find them in NL. Didn't find frogsandmore while googling for it.


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

I am thinking about something like this, still lots of space around the branch but with moss walls.


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

foxfish said:


> I am thinking about something like this, still lots of space around the branch but with moss walls.
> 
> View attachment 111616


That's realy beuatiful, i saw a concept like that before.. And immediately thought of a combination.. 2 small cubes placed llike this and saw a piece of driftwood into 3 pieces.. With a Wabi Kusa in the middle connecting both tanks.. 



While back i asked here on the forum about ideas about glueing wood permanently to glass submersed. I forgot who it was, but the strong magnets idea was the best i got. Still in te penn this idea.. Maybe one day.. Or maybe now i fully shared my brain fart somebody beats me to it.. But i think as show piece this will completely rock the boat, never seen it before. If realy nicely done, maybe a contest winner.. Perfectly sawing a piece of DW like this might be a challange, but can be done..


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## foxfish (6 Dec 2017)

Great idea, plenty of scope with a log or two...
I plan to shape and hollow out a branch or two, I have a good stock of suitable wood that I had saved for didgeridoo building.


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## Tim Harrison (6 Dec 2017)

zozo said:


> That's realy beuatiful, i saw a concept like that before.. And immediately thought of a combination.. 2 small cubes placed llike this and saw a piece of driftwood into 3 pieces.. With a Wabi Kusa in the middle connecting both tanks..
> View attachment 111618
> While back i asked here on the forum about ideas about glueing wood permanently to glass submersed. I forgot who it was, but the strong magnets idea was the best i got. Still in te penn this idea.. Maybe one day.. Or maybe now i fully shared my brain fart somebody beats me to it.. But i think as show piece this will completely rock the boat, never seen it before. If realy nicely done, maybe a contest winner.. Perfectly sawing a piece of DW like this might be a challange, but can be done..


Was that The Aqueous Art Movement? https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-aqueous-art-movement-at-art-gallery.13526/page-5


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## zozo (6 Dec 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> Was that The Aqueous Art Movement? https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-aqueous-art-movement-at-art-gallery.13526/page-5
> 
> View attachment 111622



Yup!! That's the one! Absolutely stunning, except the ugly steel stand at the right is the bummer in this setup.. So i thought why didn't he put a tank at that side too.


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