# 60cm nature scape v2



## samc (10 Dec 2009)

i decided to take my tank down the other day as nothing was going right with it. i belive there was not enough light. i am going to buy a MH soon  .

i wanted to try a naturescape again using manzanita wood i got yesterday which is great. i was inspired by an amano scape in the gallery. after cutting a few bits down and a few ajustments i came up with a layout after about 30 mins 8) 

there will be rotala sp green and nanjeshan in the back corners with HM in front. acicularis, tenellus and crypts and a lileaopsis carpet







some parts are there for planting purposes. the wood will be covered in moss. planting will be within the next week


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## aaronnorth (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



> i belive there was not enough light.



light is never a problem (within reason). concentrate on CO2 & nutrients.
Using a MH will just make things worse if you cannot get it right with 2 x 24w T5. That is plenty of lighting, and is a figure most people use due to luminaires coming with that wattage.
I used 36w T5 and had no problems growing plants (except vallis  )

But anyway the new wood positioning looks good


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## samc (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> > i belive there was not enough light.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i know what you mean but the stems just didnt like the low light. i double dosed EI and had the dc on yellow and flow all around and nothing pearled. if the MH does make things worse then i learn.

this tank should be better with planting. also there will be a pathway of the lileopsis down the centre


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## chump54 (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

the wood looks fantastic... and the plant choice sounds good, what about some moss on the wood too. not too much as that wood looks great.

sometimes starting again is the best option. a fresh perspective.

oh and as Aaron says... CO2. and I would stick with your lighting too.

good luck

Chris


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## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> i know what you mean but the stems just didnt like the low light



now, many will say stems can be grown in low light, and of course this is true. but IME there are a few varieties that require quit high light to look there best. HM being one of them.

whether you go down the luminaire route, or MH route, you need to get everything good for a hassle free tank. A little less room for manoeuvre with MH but I'm sure you can crack it. 


great looking wood sam.


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## aaronnorth (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



> HM being one of them.



But I go back to the 36w on my tank again, which had HM - that grew fine  (im not sure how it could look better, but I suppose I wont know until I see it under "extreme" lighting which I will pobably never use!)

But i'll shut up now and let the journal continue :silent:

Thanks, Aaron


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## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> But I go back to the 36w on my tank again, which had HM - that grew fine



true matey, i remember. it grew up though.Nice if that the effect your after, but HM looks better low and bushy IME/O

this is my point. stems will grow in any light, but to get the 'special effects' you need higher lighting. dense, crawling growth of HM needs high light. it's that simple.

I've now got rotala rotundifolia 'crawling' under quite high light.

 it may not be the intensity, but more the wavelengths the plants utilise. so a MH lamp suspended gives a different type of light than 2 x 24 low to the tank....possibly


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## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

sorry sam for the quick hi jack.

here's a pic of autumn blush, the HM is on the left. this, under MH never ever grew upwards. it stayed real low. i guess it's what effects your after.


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## aaronnorth (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

Hi, 



> this is my point. stems will grow in any light, but to get the 'special effects' you need higher lighting. dense, crawling growth of HM needs high light





> it stayed real low. i guess it's what effects your after.



exactly, as far as health goes adding more light will not solve the problem of melting stems  - which was my point, rather than the look you are after. 

if I can get perfect(IMO) health (not shape) under less light than Sam is currently using, then surely that must mean low light isnt an issue in this case, which is what I am trying to get at. 
because as we know, more light = greater demand for nutrients & CO2, so just start off and get it right under the 2 x 24w, before making the jump to MH.

Thanks, Aaron


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## Mark Evans (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> greater demand for nutrients & CO2, so just start off and get it right under the 2 x 24w, before making the jump to MH.



very true, and something Sam will endeavour to find out. Given the fact that Sam can physically raise the MH lamp, he'll have tons of room for experimentation.  



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> if I can get perfect(IMO) health (not shape) under less light than Sam is currently using, then surely that must mean low light isnt an issue in this case, which is what I am trying to get at.



admittedly, I veered of into another tangent.   one step ahead of myself. 

like the age old adage, HC will grow under low light, but wont look compact until under high light (waits for barrage from HC growers   ) i've veered off again


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## samc (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

i dont mind a good debate guys  

i really want the HM to grow low and bushy especially for this scape. i am sure the ferts and co2 wont be an issue but only time will tell  



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth wrote:if I can get perfect(IMO) health (not shape) under less light than Sam is currently using, then surely that must mean low light isnt an issue in this case, which is what I am trying to get at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



one thing about me is that i allways want everything to be perfect. really healthy plants. not a spec of algae ect and i wont be happy until i reach that point


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## AdAndrews (10 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> one thing about me is that i allways want everything to be perfect. really healthy plants. not a spec of algae ect and i wont be happy until i reach that point



i'm the same mate, sometimes it makes me want to quit


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## Mark Evans (11 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> one thing about me is that i allways want everything to be perfect. really healthy plants. not a spec of algae ect and i wont be happy until i reach that point



you can add me to that list. any sign of algae, and i freak out!


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## aaronnorth (11 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only algae(s) I dont like seeing is hair type. I dont mind GDA, and in fact quite like it


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## TBRO (12 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

I really like the wood sam, I think I know the ADA scape you mean (shot from above, mossy wood with ember tetras at the front). I'm thinking of downsizing my tank to a rimless job like your's. What are the dimensions? 

I also think that stems like rotala grow more compact under high lighting and leggy under weaker light.

Looking foreward to the planted version - Tom


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## samc (12 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

thanks tom  

this is the ada scape





is that the one? i dont think it is, but i know which one you mean. i really like that one too. the tank dimentions are 60x40x40. i really like the depth but the height is sometimes hard to work with.


that was my inspiration, mine is quite different though. planting choice is also similar


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## TBRO (12 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

Hey Sam, yeah that's the scape I was thinking of, there is a nicer picture in Amano's portfolio, in his photo website. Really deep tanks are difficult to scape, my Fluval osaka is 60 cm deep which is too much for me. I definatley want to give somthing like this a go, so I'll watch this space with anticipation - Tom


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## samc (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

yesterday i recieved my order from plantedbox  the plants were very good and i had to many crypts. 2 pots too many if anyone wants to buy them?

anyway a started as soon as i got home and didnt finnish at midnight so filled it today  

my halide also turned up today and its amazing, it will be put up tomorrow.

plants as follows:

Bolbitus heudelotii
Java fern 'narrow'
Vesicularia dubyana
Lileaopsis nova-zealandiae
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'green'
Micranthemum micranthemoides	
Hydrocotile leucocephalis
Anubias bonsai
Rotala sp 'green'
Rotala nanjeshan
E tenellus
E acicularis
heres how it went. sorry i dont own a tripod and my bed is not very stable, so pics vary  

first i added the ferns and anubias. i cut most of the ferns right down so they are not visible atm





next i added the lileaopsis





next i added the moss





next i added the stems, crypts and tenellus.





straight after filling





equipment added


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## andyh (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

Excellent pics, looks great! Really like the mix of plants, gives it a more natural feel.  

What height are you /have you mounted your MH at?


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## samc (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

thanks andy  

i will hopefully get the light mounted tomorrow. it will be about 2ft+ to start with


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## TBRO (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

This is going too look sweet, I'm already a bit jelous. The selection of plants is great, I like the arrangement on the wood. Please post some pics with the MH in situ. Tom


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## JamesM (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

Looking great bud 

How did you attach the moss after? Superglue?


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## samc (15 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				TBRO said:
			
		

> This is going too look sweet, I'm already a bit jelous. The selection of plants is great, I like the arrangement on the wood. Please post some pics with the MH in situ. Tom



thanks tom. ill post some pics up  



			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Looking great bud
> 
> How did you attach the moss after? Superglue?



no mate, used cotton    what a painfull job


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## JamesM (16 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> no mate, used cotton    what a painfull job


Ouch  Its a pig of a job I know, but the end results are worth it


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## AdAndrews (16 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

looks awesome sam


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## samc (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

as promised pictures of the halide which was put up today  

the light has a marine bulb which will need changing soon. you can see here that it shows the greens well when warming up






but when warmed up the colour changes to very white






i really like the light. the ripple effect is amazing. i cant wait until i get a new bulb


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## Mark Evans (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

seriously ace sam! 

your getting good mate


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## AdAndrews (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

where did you get it from? it looks great!


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## samc (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

cheers guys  

the light is second hand from ebay. it was Â£40 with postage. the light doesnt look very bright on the pic but trust me it is.

i also need a new background too. the old one was only paper and got wet


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## Garuf (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

That's looking really nice! what are the tank dimensions? They look delectable.


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## samc (17 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

thanks garuf  the tank dimentions are 60x40x40


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## Garuf (18 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

It's really nice, absolute bargain on the light too. 
More pictures is what we want, it's looking very Amano-esque!


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## samc (18 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> It's really nice, absolute bargain on the light too.
> More pictures is what we want, it's looking very Amano-esque!



thanks   

the aqua medic halides (which is what i have) go pretty cheap second hand on ebay. normally Â£50ish

ill get some more pics up soon. i really want a new bulb  . the crypts were pearling nicely today but there is some melt


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## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

Hi samc, looking ace mate!

is that the height you have the light?....(images with light)

you can suspend it higher if you like, and you'll still get awesome growth. I had mine much higher and still got HM and the likes to crawl like a 1 year old kid on steroids!


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## samc (19 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

thanks mark  

i was going to put it about a foot higher today. does it reduce the light alot?


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## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> does it reduce the light alot?



no, not like a t5 unit does.


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## samc (21 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

so i have raised the light.    it does not look much different which amazed me  

i have ordered a new bulb   osram 150w daylight. which is the same colour as viktors so i am looking foward to it.

there is some melting going on with the crypts, and i have cut the tenellus back. some new growth from the lileopsis though


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## samc (27 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*

i have been practicing photography on this tank and its incredibly difficult with my camera as the light is so bright. i still have the marine bulb in so its quite white.

i had to use a piece of board to cover the light and some card  8)   

the pictures were still rubbish as you will see. 

it looks nothing like this in real life


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## Mark Evans (28 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				samc said:
			
		

> so its quite white.



johnathan ross?   

keep practising mate. one thing....moss will always be hard to capture due to it's dark nature. when you've got bright green stems and dark moss.....nightmare!


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## aaronnorth (28 Dec 2009)

*Re: 60cm nature scpae v2*



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




lol yep, it sometimes looks dead doesnt it


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

saintly said:
			
		

> johnathan ross?



 

it is really hard to photograph. and does look dead. i think i am going to put a white background on, or paint the wall. then see if the light helps too


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## Garuf (28 Dec 2009)

What make is that Lily pipe? It really looks the part, I'm not looking forward to dropping Â£100 on some lilys for my new tank.


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

hi garuf. they are natural aquario ones. they cost about Â£50 inc postage. or would have if i didnt buy the tank as well  

they will take a weeks or 2 to get here though. the ones i have are really nice quality


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

i just had a look and they have gone up a bit


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## Garuf (28 Dec 2009)

Hmmm, not so bad. I've been calling around about getting some custom made glass wear but all the places I've called (5 so far) have wanted a minimum order of 5 Pieces before they consider making anything, there was me thinking I'd get superior product and a low low price.


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## Garuf (28 Dec 2009)

Hmmm, I can't actually find them on the site? :S


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

they are in the filter section http://www.naturalaquario.com/products.php?pageNum_rs_products=1&totalRows_rs_products=21&id=4

they must have gone up about Â£30 now though


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## Garuf (28 Dec 2009)

Yeah, not great, I got a quote for Â£58 per inlet/outlet pair from a glass blower but that'd be entirely custom and be better flow but they expect a minimum order. I'm certain if I ring round some more I could get cheaper.


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

i have had a little go on the macro setting on my compact today. something to make me feel a bit better about my photography  







the annoying snails are breeding like mad. thats there eggs  





i am loving crypts at the moment although not pearling much today as the FE is about empty


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## aaronnorth (28 Dec 2009)

Thos are some good shots Sam


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Thos are some good shots Sam



cheers mate  its the best i can do with the camera anyway

i have been playing with backgrounds to try and get better pics. i have pulled the tank away from the wall a bit more so the light can get behind. i also added some frosted backing and white paper. tomorrow i will paint the wall  

i think the photo is a little better. 






although the camera automatically makes the photo darker  do you photogaphers know how to stop this?


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## Mark Evans (28 Dec 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> do you photogaphers know how to stop this?



my guess is your in auto mode and the metering system is metering the bright wall behind, thus under exposing. set the metering to 'spot' point it at the plants (these are what need to be correct exposure) lock the metering and re focus.

or shoot manually.


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

mark. your a star  

i normally use manual mode and its not in 'spot' mode so that could be why. although i cant lock it on mine. i dont think so anyway :?  ill have a look tomorrow as the battery is flat now.

i think it changes the exposure on its own though


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

BINGO!

i can lock it   i just hold the button half down


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## Mark Evans (28 Dec 2009)

samc said:
			
		

> i think it changes the exposure on its own though



so, experiment in manual. move the focusing point around the tank and see what settings are required for a correct exposure. it's a great way of learning.   

when shooting outdoors, metering the grass is a half way house for a good exposure. think in terms of dark-bright.  this is where moss can mess things up a treat. under expose, and it looks dull, to much exposure and you blow the high lights in HM, HC etc.....

you'll find that correcting the exposure for plants will 'blow' the background! good in my book, amanoesque.


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## samc (28 Dec 2009)

i will try that mark  

the thing with my camera is that it only lets you do a hand full of things yourself even on manuel mode. you have given me something to think about for sure. thanks


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## aaronnorth (30 Dec 2009)

An easy way to spot this is to get a black piece & white piece of card. If you can see the shutter speed on the camera, when you focus on the white the shutter speed will be really fast (lots of light reflecting off it) but when you point it on the black it might be 4seconds.
I have found this handy for my SAEs as I focus on the white strips either side of the black line lol.


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## samc (30 Dec 2009)

thanks aaron i will have to try it also


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## samc (14 Jan 2010)

i have now installed the osram powerstar daylight. the tank has a different feel to it now and the green of the plants is amazing. the crypts have grown the most and are getting too big. the HM has not really grown up get, it crawling.

 i have also upped the photo period from 5 hrs to 7hrs and in a couple of weeks it will be 10hrs.

i havent got the stems for the back yet but it should be soon   they should make the scape.

old bulb






osram have changed the bulb itself now. they call the new one HQI-excellence 






and the new bulb






sorry for the crummy pics


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## JamesM (14 Jan 2010)

Sweet Sam  

Careful on the increase to 10 hours though bud, its really not needed after all


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## LondonDragon (14 Jan 2010)

Looking good Sam, careful with the algae if you up the photo period too much


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## samc (14 Jan 2010)

thanks guys  

ill be very careful with the light. the new bulb is brighter too so ill keep an eye on it   

ill try and get a decent photo tomorrow as these latest ones were rushed as i had about 30 secs before the battery ran out


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## Garuf (14 Jan 2010)

It's making me want a halide more this. 
Regarding your photoperiod, if you have a bottle of excell or similar knocking around it'll help avoid any co2 shortcomings till you know just how much you need to up your co2 by.


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## Mark Evans (14 Jan 2010)

I'm 3  for the lighting period. don't up it too quickly. just because plants are doing good, this may give us a false sense of what's really going off within. 

you could quickly run into problems. who's to say your not at your threshold at the moment, an extra 30 minutes could sway the balance in the wrong direction. 

slowly slowly catcha monkey....as they say


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## samc (15 Jan 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> slowly slowly catcha monkey....as they say



sure thing  

i have tried to get some better photos today and i think they are getting a little better.












the Hydrocotile leucocephalis has not grown up because of the halide. apart from i stem





the most amazing plant. round pelia. i cant get a pic to do it justice though





my shrimp have started breeding already, they like to hide under the pelia





thanks for looking


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## hydrophyte (15 Jan 2010)

This is really a nice little setup. 

I like that use of crypts.


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## samc (16 Jan 2010)

hydrophyte said:
			
		

> This is really a nice little setup.
> 
> I like that use of crypts.



thanks  

i can now start to really get things growing in this tank. i have put a new FE on and put the co2 higher. i am also dosing more ferts. about 3x EI lol. and the plants are pearling like mad today.


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## samc (23 Jan 2010)

today i had a little trim of the crypts and took the hydrocotyle out as i could not put anyhting the other side that would look right with it. i did love the plant though. i still need to get some rotala for the back corners

before:






this was how much i have from 1 pot.






after:






i am setting up a reed frog tank so its gone in there. still alot of planting to do yet though


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## rawr (23 Jan 2010)

I really like this, crypts are my favourite plant by a mile and the jungle feel is always a nice touch. I can't help but think adding some more wood would add a lot to the aquascape though.


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## Mark Evans (23 Jan 2010)

Sam, the crypts have a wonderful orange tinge to them. In general the whole tank looks great.


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## samc (23 Jan 2010)

rawr said:
			
		

> I really like this, crypts are my favourite plant by a mile and the jungle feel is always a nice touch. I can't help but think adding some more wood would add a lot to the aquascape though.



thanks tom, the wood does look a little strange at the moment i must admit. i should have lots of stems in the back corners soon, that should bring it together.



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> Sam, the crypts have a wonderful orange tinge to them. In general the whole tank looks great.



thanks mark, i am liking crypts at the mo. still got a way to go yet. at least i am getting somewhere with this. 

i feel like its only half a scape at the moment


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## Garuf (23 Jan 2010)

Have you started a thread for the frogs yet? I really want to see it, tell me everything!!!


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## samc (23 Jan 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Have you started a thread for the frogs yet? I really want to see it, tell me everything!!!



not yet mate  

i have a few things to sort out before i get them in. you wouldnt believe how small these guys are. heres a fully grown one


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## Garuf (23 Jan 2010)

Can I have them? Please. They look amazing! How do you keep the humidity up without it misting up?


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## samc (23 Jan 2010)

ill be getting some in a couple of weeks time. thats not mine, but they do come in a wide selection of colours. all very attractive. they are also very hardy and tollerate many conditions. 

the spraybar i have made out of acylic tube (same place james showed you) sprays the front glass to keep it clear. this wasnt the initail idea but it works well. you may be able to see on the photo.


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## hydrophyte (23 Jan 2010)

Still looking great Sam.

I am interested to hear more about those reed frogs. If you think of it please direct me to the thread that you start for them. I have looked around some, but haven't encountered many US sources for reed frogs. I understand that there are many different species.


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## Garuf (23 Jan 2010)

Hmm, that'd annoy the hell out of me, I don't know what it is about mist/condensation but I can't stand the stuff.


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## jarthel (27 Jan 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> and the new bulb



it seems this osram lamp has 2 getters instead of the normal 1? thank you


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## samc (6 Feb 2010)

quick update;

i have been busy this week so have not had much time on the tank. staghorn algae has attacked my lileopsis which dont look so good now and GSA on the glass too, along with the hair algae already on the moss. again from not dosing. 

i think to save me missing dosing i am going to do one weeks worth in one go.

i am hoping to enter into IALPC this year for the first time.


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## Garuf (6 Feb 2010)

I want a halide, now. That tank looks good enough to eat! So so healthy and clean!


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## chump54 (6 Feb 2010)

thats looking fantastic Sam, shame about the staghorn. are you going to trim it out or go the easy carbo way?

is that the nanjeshan in the background? mine is not doing so well since I stopped mixing RO water with tap water to soften it. I have very hard water.

anyway its a great looking tank you should definitely enter the IALPC. I'm thinking about entering mine, just need to sort out the right handside.

Chris


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## Mark Evans (6 Feb 2010)

Quality scape sam!

the liliaeopsis works a treat with crypts! 

keep an eye on the HM  

it's apparent, that it's doing good now, like HC, once established it's unstoppable. It has the potential to ruin the scape, by crawling over everything....I speak from experience.

Top work mate!


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## Garuf (6 Feb 2010)

Just read you've been hit with the algae monster. Up the co2 more, start dosing liquid carbon and tweek your dosing. You could also reduce the light but that's difficult with halide.


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## samc (6 Feb 2010)

thanks   

i just finnished my weekly maintanance/monthly   and i broke my inlet    it was my best piece of glassware. it broke on the bend at the top so i have bodged it up for now and ill see if i can make a new bend out of acrylic tube.

mark, i will give the HM a trim soon although i like the slightly overgrown look. it will be back in no time though.

about the algae. i am just going to up the dosing and co2 for now and see if it reduces. i cant be bothered to put the light higher at the mo


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## Garuf (6 Feb 2010)

I forgot to say, cleaning you diffuser every 3 days I found increased pearling, worth trying?

That sucks about the inlet! I'm after glassware myself but finding the good stuff is impossible. Possible sign that the hobby is faultering on a world scale?


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## JamesM (6 Feb 2010)

Spot on Sam, looking really good bud


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## Steve Smith (6 Feb 2010)

Hi Sam.

What size inlet was it?  I have a 12mm set of eBay lily's going spare at the moment if you're interested.  

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=9534

I also have a spare Cal Aqua nano outlet spare - One of these.  Only got the outlet, as I broke the inlet   

PM me if either are of interest


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## samc (6 Feb 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I forgot to say, cleaning you diffuser every 3 days I found increased pearling, worth trying?
> 
> That sucks about the inlet! I'm after glassware myself but finding the good stuff is impossible. Possible sign that the hobby is faultering on a world scale?



i do need to clean my diffuser more often actually. i think it does help too  




			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> Spot on Sam, looking really good bud



thanks james  

steve, my glassware is the 16mm stuff thanks anyway  i would like a nano set one day but i dont have the money to set a nano up


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## Garuf (6 Feb 2010)

You might if I get round to putting mine up for sale on here


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## hydrophyte (6 Feb 2010)

samc said:
			
		

>



That's looking great Sam. I don't see the algae at all in the photo.


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## rawr (7 Feb 2010)

That's lookin real nice, what fish are those you've got in there?


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## samc (7 Feb 2010)

hydrophyte said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks, the algae is only really on the lileopsis, you have to look close though.



			
				rawr said:
			
		

> That's lookin real nice, what fish are those you've got in there?



thanks, the fish are red eye tetra. they only come out during feeding time  they are really entertaining though. i have decided ontheold neon or cardinal tetra as the couple i have in now look amazing under the lighting. a really nice contrast to the greens


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## samc (26 Feb 2010)

update time  

i have got rid of all the algae (cheers in joy)   i did it by turning thelight off for a week and that did thetrick for me. its just about all gone, which suprised me as there was quite a bit on the lileoplsis. i am going to be more strict with my dosing now. i also cut the crypts right down but they are growing quick. and added some new little guys.

i also forgot i have t8 tube behind. until i see marks on his journal. i only use it for back lighting at night as it dont mke any difference with the halide there in the day.

oh and mark you sent me a little freebie when you sent that moss ages ago   can you see in the middle on the wood? it was one little strand i just left. i quite like it tbh  






in situe





nice little shot of my one and only SAE





and the rather tricky to photograph rummys


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## Mark Evans (26 Feb 2010)

man, this is looking sweet!  excellent in fact!



			
				samc said:
			
		

> can you see in the middle on the wood?



no mate, what is it? not algae i hope


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## samc (26 Feb 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> no mate, what is it? not algae i hope



 no, its a big ball of riccia, its hard to see on the photo actually as it has HM behind.  i love to see it pearl like mad


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## Mark Evans (26 Feb 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> no, its a big ball of riccia, its hard to see on the photo actually as it has HM behind. i love to see it pearl like mad


ahh, sorry dude   

hey sam! maybe think about getting some 'shape' from the HM in the rear. let it grow out and form it.


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## samc (26 Feb 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> hey sam! maybe think about getting some 'shape' from the HM in the rear. let it grow out and form it.



good point. i have given it one trim and ill have to shape it on the next   i still have to put some more stems in there yet, especially on the right back. its just a gap at the mo. i have a load of nanjeshan coming as the one or two stems in there are beautiful


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## Steve Smith (26 Feb 2010)

Looking fantastic Sam!  I love it!


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## LondonDragon (26 Feb 2010)

I do find that grass to over powering for a small tank, but non the less looks amazing, congrats Sam


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## samc (27 Feb 2010)

SteveUK said:
			
		

> Looking fantastic Sam!  I love it!



thanks alot steve  



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> I do find that grass to over powering for a small tank, but non the less looks amazing, congrats Sam



i didnt think the grass would grow as tall looking at amano using it. but you live and learn. thanks also paulo


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## CeeJay (28 Feb 2010)

Hi samc
This tank is looking quite exceptional, if I may say   
Good job.


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## JamesM (28 Feb 2010)

As I told you earlier Sam, this is looking great bud


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## rawr (28 Feb 2010)

This is looking great, nice one!


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## Jase (28 Feb 2010)

This is really nice Sam


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## flygja (4 Mar 2010)

Beaultiful beautiful Lilaeopsis carpet


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## samc (14 Mar 2010)

thanks very much guys  

another update. not much has changed really, the HM is getting pretty big but it needs to grow a little more before i can shape it. i am going to have HM on the right too as i havent got hold of any other stems yet and the HM has already filled the gap, so ill just let it grow up. 

sorry for the crap pic


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## Mark Evans (14 Mar 2010)

truly stunning mate.


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## samc (14 Mar 2010)

thanks mark   

there its lots of dark patches on the photo. like the bottom of the lileoplsis. its not really like that. do you know how to stop that? i have been playing and i think the white background doesnt help.

also the preview screen is totally different from when i upload it. its much more colourful  the HM looks really dull on here.


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## Mark Evans (14 Mar 2010)

personally, i like the dark look. check out amano's scape with lilaeopsis....it's the same.

the HM looks great too. i wouldn't worry too much.


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## Nelson (14 Mar 2010)

that looks fantastic sam  .i'm well jealous  .


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## JamesM (14 Mar 2010)

Beautiful Sam, you have no problems growing plants bud


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## samc (14 Mar 2010)

thanks again guys   


its 100 days old today!

this tank has been a break through in growing plants. i just made a little video of the progress but cant upload unless i do it to youtube.


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## Garuf (14 Mar 2010)

Really, really nice. And to think you had all that fuss when using flourescents and look at it now your on a halide!


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## andyh (14 Mar 2010)

Sam, that looks great dude!  
I bet your proud?


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## LondonDragon (14 Mar 2010)

Excellent Sam  bet you dying to try something new also hehe


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## Garuf (15 Mar 2010)

Sam, do you have a species list for the plants? I recognise many but the crypts and that hydrocotyle have me thrown. Also, what specie of lillinopsis is it? It seems really big?


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## samc (15 Mar 2010)

andyh said:
			
		

> Sam, that looks great dude!
> I bet your proud?



this is the first tank i am happy with. saying that there is things i would change if i did the same layout again  




			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Excellent Sam  bet you dying to try something new also hehe



you bet   i have a few ideas i would like to try which i have not seen on here before



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Sam, do you have a species list for the plants? I recognise many but the crypts and that hydrocotyle have me thrown. Also, what specie of lillinopsis is it? It seems really big?



the crypts are normal wendetii green although under this light they and more of a brown/orange the have some purple on too .

the hydrocotile is Hydrocotile leucocephalis and the lilinopsis is nova-zealandiae. it is rather tall. i should have trimmed it a few weeks back really and it grows back shorter. like e tenellus, but my problem is that they go well with the crypts as they cover the stems for a better transition if you get me? 

for my next layout it will be mainly lileopsis but hopefully shorter


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## JamesM (15 Mar 2010)

Sam, have you tried just trimming the front inch or so of the lileaopsis? You'll get short growth at the very front, then the larger lileaopsis will still covering the crypt stalks...


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## samc (15 Mar 2010)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Sam, have you tried just trimming the front inch or so of the lileaopsis? You'll get short growth at the very front, then the larger lileaopsis will still covering the crypt stalks...



good thinking james. do you think the trimmed ones will die off though? or grow algae


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## Mark Evans (15 Mar 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> good thinking james. do you think the trimmed ones will die off though? or grow algae



trim it to the deck. depends on how long you want the tank to last. IMO, your not far off being done  8)


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## samc (15 Mar 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i would like this to be done in the next few weeks TBH.  too many ideas   

i will be using it in my next scape and the crypts too. i love crypts now


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## samc (25 Mar 2010)

so this has got a little overgrown :? due to neglection. although today i had some time off so gave it a good trim.
not had any ferts this week and i can tell. the lileopsis soon gathers algae. 

although i had the HM growing emersed  

post trim






emersed HM





cuttings





after trim





i did kinda like the overgrown look, but after it looks more under controll


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## JamesM (25 Mar 2010)

That's looking friggin' awesome Sam!


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## Steve Smith (25 Mar 2010)

Flippin' ace Sam   Love it!


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## George Farmer (25 Mar 2010)

Nice work mate!  A refreshing design indeed, and awesome growth!  Congrats.


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## Mark Evans (25 Mar 2010)

AWESOME! 

well Sam! no regrets with the MH?....  

I feel now, your in a position to do just about anything you like in aquascaping. The tell tale plant of ability for me is, the HM. A stem, of course, but not the easiest to make look good. This is good quality growth!


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## Ben M (25 Mar 2010)

cool, i like the way you've shaped the plant at the back. 

cheers


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## samc (25 Mar 2010)

pest control said:
			
		

> cool, i like the way you've shaped the plant at the back.
> 
> cheers



thanks  i am hoping the new shoots will grow and keep the shape



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> AWESOME!
> 
> well Sam! no regrets with the MH?....
> 
> I feel now, your in a position to do just about anything you like in aquascaping. The tell tale plant of ability for me is, the HM. A stem, of course, but not the easiest to make look good. This is good quality growth!



thanks very much mark. i really like the look of the HM under this light   no regrets!



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> Nice work mate!  A refreshing design indeed, and awesome growth!  Congrats.





			
				SteveUK said:
			
		

> Flippin' ace Sam   Love it!





			
				JamesM said:
			
		

> That's looking friggin' awesome Sam!



thanks dudes


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## rawr (26 Mar 2010)

This is looking great and has real potential! I think it would come on leaps and bounds if it had more of a foreground and transition between foreground and mid.


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2010)

rawr said:
			
		

> This is looking great and has real potential! I think it would come on leaps and bounds if it had more of a foreground and transition between foreground and mid.



this is true, but for most of us on UKAPS, we all struggle to get the 'transitions' right. purely because we don't scape enough to learn the lesson.

Actually, liliaeopsis doesnt lend it's self to a good 'transition' just look at amano tanks which use it. it looks identical to sams tank. In fact i was going to say yesterday but didn't, this is so damn amano!   

Sam is showing some great ability with plant growing, and the scaping part will come with time i reckon.

The healthiest tank on UKAPS at the moment!


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## samc (26 Mar 2010)

rawr said:
			
		

> This is looking great and has real potential! I think it would come on leaps and bounds if it had more of a foreground and transition between foreground and mid.



thanks thomas   i would have liked more foreground too. the crypts soon took over, which i didnt expect



			
				saintly said:
			
		

> rawr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks mark  

like you say we need more time to get things how we really want them. each tank we do we learn more than we expected. i feel confident with growing plants now, so i am looking foward to creating something i will feel 100% happy with. if that day ever comes  

it has some algae problems in this tbh. on the first cut of the HM i didnt fert dose due to lazyness and it has allways had some BBA on which has bugged me for some time. also the liliaeopsis has some BBA on, mainly in the shaded areas   which was also down to being lazy with the dosing.

i think autumn blush was an inspiration to grow really heathly plants. in this tank i havent matched up. hopefully in the coming scapes i can come closer


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## chilled84 (26 Mar 2010)

The HM is outstounding! superb cutting ability! Trimming scares the doobys out of me!


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## JamesM (26 Mar 2010)

chilled84 said:
			
		

> The HM is outstounding! superb cutting ability! Trimming scares the doobys out of me!


It shouldn't mate  Plants love a good trim


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## chilled84 (26 Mar 2010)

JamesM said:
			
		

> chilled84 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its the daument part betweem the trim and growing part that does.


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## Mark Evans (26 Mar 2010)

JamesM said:
			
		

> Plants love a good trim



at the right time of course


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## Nelson (26 Mar 2010)

looking great sam  .i liked the overgrown look too.will grow back even better though.
well done mate.


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## samc (26 Mar 2010)

nelson said:
			
		

> looking great sam  .i liked the overgrown look too.will grow back even better though.
> well done mate.



thanks dude


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## samc (2 Apr 2010)

just another quick update while i had the camera out. not alot happened really


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## Jase (2 Apr 2010)

Full to bursting   It looks great

Do you trim your crypts? I've found they respond really well to cutting off the taller leaves, chucking out nice new growth and bushing out at the base. This gets rid of the 'need' for plants to cover up the stems   

Are you planning on keeping this going or is a rescape on the horizon?


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## samc (2 Apr 2010)

cheers jase  

i trim the crypts every week  i take about 10-15 of the biggest leaves or the ones with hole in ect. the ones at the back are at the top of the tank now as they have not been trimmed. i have noticed just lately they have started producing new plantlets  

and yes in about 2-3 weeks a new scape shall be underway.


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## Jase (2 Apr 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> cheers jase
> 
> i trim the crypts every week  i take about 10-15 of the biggest leaves or the ones with hole in ect. the ones at the back are at the top of the tank now as they have not been trimmed. i have noticed just lately they have started producing new plantlets
> 
> and yes in about 2-3 weeks a new scape shall be underway.



 Mine grow fairly quickly too

If you're rescaping anyway, you could try trimming most of the leaves off the crypts in the middle, to reveal your hardscape again.

Also, how do you trim your lilaeopsis? Like grass? I tried that in my pico and it just stuck it's fingers up at me and died


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## samc (2 Apr 2010)

Jase said:
			
		

> how do you trim your lilaeopsis? Like grass? I tried that in my pico and it just stuck it's fingers up at me and died



i have not actually trimmed it yet  i might use it in my next tank though. if i do, i would just cut it to the substrate. 

i have trimmed some bad bits off and they are still ok.


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## samc (22 Apr 2010)

i have not done a water change or dosing in this for a few weeks now and it has not really had much of an effect on it. today i forced myself to finally trim it again after putting it off for a week. i was suprised at how much HM i got out  

lookind a bit rough on this one with the water marks and scabby pipes  sorry for the reflections also  





some moss i found in the lakedistrict





HM growing emersed





and the chunk i got out. these are all the 'good cuttings' or tops which would be ready for planting


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2010)

A tad overgrown Sam. you really need to butcher this.


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## samc (22 Apr 2010)

new scape on the way next week mate


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> new scape on the way next week mate



awesome! your a skilful young man, so it should be exciting.


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## samc (22 Apr 2010)

saintly said:
			
		

> samc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



cheers mate. 

i am not sure on what to do yet. i have got an awesome main-stone but its about 60cm 





i need to get i cut flat at the bottom which should'nt be a problem. the only problem i have is that i dont have any supporting stones. i may have an idea though


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## JamesM (22 Apr 2010)

Love the stone Sam 

And damn dude, you created a monster with this! Love it!


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## chilled84 (22 Apr 2010)

samc said:
			
		

> i have not done a water change or dosing in this for a few weeks now and it has not really had much of an effect on it. today i forced myself to finally trim it again after putting it off for a week. i was suprised at how much HM i got out
> 
> lookind a bit rough on this one with the water marks and scabby pipes  sorry for the reflections also
> 
> ...



I have got some of that moss from lake district growing near me. Amazing stuff. And as for you planted tank mate, Your have the nack for growing! Ten points!   Your a natural.


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## LondonDragon (22 Apr 2010)

What a jungle Sam, you need to get those scissors out hehe  the moss is Willow moss. 
Nice rock, shame its too big for the tank


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## ghostsword (23 Apr 2010)

The moss looks really great. 

About the crypts, good tip about pruning, as I got some and would like to trim them a bit, so it is nice to see how others do it.


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## Garuf (23 Apr 2010)

I'm growing more and more convinced of Metal halides wizard like properties, something about it just seems to work much better than flouro's, maybe it's that they don't filcker? 

Looking forward to the next scape. As long as it's not an iwagumi.


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## ghostsword (23 Apr 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I'm growing more and more convinced of Metal halides wizard like properties, something about it just seems to work much better than flouro's, maybe it's that they don't filcker?



Could it be? You know when you are in a room with a flickering light it gives you an headache? Hard to prove, but could something like flicker also affect plants? Or how they handle the light?


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## Garuf (23 Apr 2010)

Well I imagine it would effectively reduce the duration of the light by half? I don't know, I don't think it's been studied, I tried to find info but there was nothing.


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## ashpitt (23 Apr 2010)

> i am not sure on what to do yet. i have got an awesome main-stone but its about 60cm
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Schweet looking stone.  Just break the stone into few pieces to get your supporting.


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## Krishs Bettas (23 Apr 2010)

I new this tank was and is going to be brilliant from the start


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## samc (24 Apr 2010)

thanks guys and sorry for the late reply.



			
				ashpitt said:
			
		

> Schweet looking stone.  Just break the stone into few pieces to get your supporting.



i have thought about it but i cant bring myself to do it. i might end up with a load of nothing :? 



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> I'm growing more and more convinced of Metal halides wizard like properties, something about it just seems to work much better than flouro's, maybe it's that they don't filcker?
> 
> Looking forward to the next scape. As long as it's not an iwagumi.


#

i am very pleased with the halide. i am not sure why but it just gives me the plant health i allways wanted. i guess its the closest you will get to recreating the sun. maybe the plants prefer to have one strong source of light to grow to. there could be many reasons. i am just happy the algae dont like it as much 



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> About the crypts, good tip about pruning, as I got some and would like to trim them a bit, so it is nice to see how others do it.
> The moss looks really great.
> 
> About the crypts, good tip about pruning, as I got some and would like to trim them a bit, so it is nice to see how others do it.



i just trim the biggest leaves off to keep mine small. then new leaves should start to grow from the base. i am thinking that the bigger leaves shadow the smaller ones below it. so when trimmed they will grow better.


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