# Filter recommendations for 450 litre



## Alastair (16 May 2011)

Was just wondering if people could give me some ideas. I've got a juwel vision 450 bowfront, and on that I'm running via spray bars, a tetra tec ex2400 one side, and two ex1200 on the other. One with spraybar, other outlet pointing forwards. 
How ever, I'm looking to reduce these as for a start the 2400 is juice happy for electricity, but also flow is more on that side. 
What I'd like if possible, is recommendations for two filters for either side of my tank, that have a large amount of media space, coupled with really good flow to keep water flowing nicely.
I've looked at an fx5 but it's only got 6.9 litres of space and no spray bar. My ex2400 has a massive media load so would like something similar. I'm trying to avoid having to put power heads in the tank.

Thanks in advance

Alastair


----------



## ceg4048 (16 May 2011)

Hi Alastair,
                  The Eheim 2080 are rated at 1700 LPH and is a low power consumer relative to its size and output. Some of it's e-enabled cousins (like the 2075 etc) have a little less capacity so will fit better in the cupboards. These are all are much more expensive than the Fluvals though, so if you bought them new it's hard to determine how long it would take at their efficiency to pay back the difference in cost.  

The Fluval G series have good reviews for capacity, efficiency and flow rate (G6 rated at 2600LPH), and they reportedly can use spraybars, but again, these are atrociously expensive, so the cost/benefit ratio might be adverse.

Th FX5 7 litre capacity is not really a big deal, especially if you use two of them with sintered glass media, but the spraybar issue might require a custom solution such as the acrylic DIY spraybars.

Cheers,


----------



## Alastair (16 May 2011)

I think someone on here uses the g6, but for two of those I'd be looking at about 700 pound which seems pretty expensive, and I'm not sure the spray bars are very long. 
I've just looked at the 2080 and am swaying to the idea of those. I'd be short of the ten times flow with those two at a total of 3400 litres. However eheim parts are so easy to come by compared to a lot of other filters. 
I think they do a classic that's a bit of a monster but not really into having no auto prime...
Do eheim do anything with more flow than 1700?


----------



## ceg4048 (17 May 2011)

I'm afraid the stronget I've seen is the 2078 rated at 1850LPH. Check out flea-bay G6 used for virtually half price at the buy-it-now price. 20 hours left...

Cheers,


----------



## Alastair (17 May 2011)

Only a ten minute drive from me too.....I'm looking as we speak. Only thing is the pump Performance is 2460 litres an hour but flow is rated at a 1000 :0/


----------



## Gill (17 May 2011)

Have you looked at some of the Hydroponics companies like Hailea, They are making some very nice externals with 8L plus capacity.


----------



## Gill (17 May 2011)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> I'm afraid the stronget I've seen is the 2078 rated at 1850LPH. Check out flea-bay G6 used for virtually half price at the buy-it-now price. 20 hours left...
> 
> Cheers,



Sorry to go off topic, but how to do you custom url please

Just seen these >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atman-UF2400-...9?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item29f83f06fb
Have used Atman Externals in the past and very very good. Excellent Filtration for the price.


----------



## Alastair (17 May 2011)

I've seen those atmans before, looks almost identical to my ex2400. I've looked on all pond solutions and they do a 2000 litre an hour filter for 69.99 which is a bargain, and someone on here is using them and spike highly of them....

http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... 9w-uv.html.

I could probably spend up to about 400 to 500 tops. Problems with the eheims is you've then got to spend almost another 60 or so for their media which brings the costs up even more..


----------



## Gill (17 May 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> I've seen those atmans before, looks almost identical to my ex2400. I've looked on all pond solutions and they do a 2000 litre an hour filter for 69.99 which is a bargain, and someone on here is using them and spike highly of them....
> 
> http://www.allpondsolutions.co.uk/aquar ... 9w-uv.html.
> 
> I could probably spend up to about 400 to 500 tops. Problems with the eheims is you've then got to spend almost another 60 or so for their media which brings the costs up even more..



yep, saw those aswell, very good filters.


----------



## ceg4048 (17 May 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> ...I could probably spend up to about 400 to 500 tops. Problems with the eheims is you've then got to spend almost another 60 or so for their media which brings the costs up even more..


Alastair,
    Just because one has a Eheim it absolutely  does not mean that one has to then pay racketeering prices for Eheim media. Sintered glass is sintered glass, so you can buy any off brand noodle or biomedia. In fact, you don't even need sintered glass if your stocking and or lighting is low. Even if you do decide to use the sintered glass, you don't have to fill the trays. Less media means more flow rate. Don't get sucked into the biomedia Matrix.

The price of the the off brand filters is an excellent way to go. As long as the motor is reliable and as long as there are no leaks then they do exactly the same job as the Eheim or Fluval.



			
				Gill said:
			
		

> Sorry to go off topic, but how to do you custom url please


Easy, 

Normal syntax looks like this 
	
	



```
[url]http://www.web.page.address[/url]
```

To customize, first change the second bracket (the "]" between the "l" of url and the "h" of http) to "=" and insert a left facing bracket at the end of the address:

```
[url=http://www.web.page.address][/url]
```

Finally, insert your custom text between that left facing bracket you just inserted and the adjacent right facing bracket:

```
[url=http://www.web.page.address]My Custom Text[/url]
```

After you insert the custom text you can then accessorize it by selecting it and adding colour or bold or whatever:

```
[url=http://www.web.page.address][color=#0000FF]My Custom Text[/color][/url]
```

Cheers,


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Im torn between the eheims then and an offbrand. I'm figuring for what I sell my three filters for, that would almost cOver the cost of a 2080, so would only need to fork out for another....I have high lighting, but tank is ridiculously light stocked and is going to stay that way, I'm concentrating on the plant growing side of it more than fish. It's a relatively talk tank too, so do you think the 2080 x2 would be sufficient then Clive? I'm dosing based on it still holding 450 litres, even though its more near to 380.


----------



## RudeDogg1 (18 May 2011)

You know the 2080 has 2 inlet pipes don't you? If u have a limited space that will need to be taken into account. I want a 2080 but don't have enough clearance in my cupboard :0( lol I'd only have 2cm clearance


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Bummer. I can easily fit a tetra tec ex2400 in each cupboard so o should get the 2080's in....


----------



## RudeDogg1 (18 May 2011)

2080's are 57.5 cm high


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Well I've just measured both my cupboards, and they are 75 cm high by 35 cm width. So given the 2080 is 33 cm each side then I should get those in. I've looked at this review of the 2080 vs the fx5  http://eheimfilter.com/blog/ and I think the eheim comes out better with regards to percentage of flow rate etc. Yes the fx5 has a massive amount if sponge media, and had it been that spray bars were manufactured for these I'd sway to an fx5 but not up to sorting pipework etc for a DIY spray bar. 
And as Clive said Id not need to cram each compartment with sintered glass so therefore I'd be improving flow rate a little more.


----------



## Gfish (18 May 2011)

Hi Alistair

Don't let the spraybar issue be the decider for the FX5.
I mean, even with manufacturer spraybars for the others, are they ever how we'd like them?
Eheim are green FFS!! Lol
Most are very short.
And at the end of the day it's a piece of pipe with holes in it.

I walked into my local MA and said ok, what have you got??? He sold me all the bits to easily join together and fit onto a length of black 32mm pipe that he gave me as it was an offcut just lying around. 

Scribe a line down the pipe and mark the holes, then drill away with a screwgun for ease of use. It was so easy and it runs the length of my tank. I couldn't he happier 

It's worth a shot to get the fittings and pipe, even before you buy.

Cheers

Gavin


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Do allthe MA sell bits like that then? I've never seen anything like that at the one up here in Manchester. I'd googled making a spray bar for an fx5 and the ones on there were made to look pretty complicated. If I could get someone to make say an acrylic one for an fx5 that would be perfect, I'm just not very technical like that. I'd rather just plonk filters in and let them do what they need to. I know with eheims, as you say the green pipework is ermmmm not very nice, and with short bars that wouldn't be too good either as my tank is fairly long. I don't mind buying clear tubing for the eheims and then say getting the fluval pipework as I think Clive did on his tank.


----------



## Gfish (18 May 2011)

Are you having a black background in your tank? If so black pipe is the way to go. 
Clear needs cleaning more remember 

These are just standard bits and bobs in the pond section in my local MA. Ask for help and tell the guy what it's for. I've ditched the Fluval ribbed hose and have smooth clear bendy piping with 90degree bends and pipe clamps that lead up to the spraybar, where a short length of pipe is used and an adaptor that fits into the 32mm pipe with a tight press fit. And I run my CO2 into the intake so the gas comes into the tank along this huge spraybar. 
Im sure there's more complex ways but mine seems simple enough and works fine 

Cheers


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

So your using the fx5 then gfish? so have you got any pics of your tube set up and hosing?


----------



## ceg4048 (18 May 2011)

Alastair said:
			
		

> ..I've looked at this review of the 2080 vs the fx5  http://eheimfilter.com/blog/ and I think the eheim comes out better with regards to percentage of flow rate etc..


Err..you must have read that in The Matrix. There is no way any Eheim beats it's Fluval counterpart on flow. Eheims are notorious for their overly optimistic flow ratings. If you are lightly stocked and have a tall tank there is no way I would suggest the Eheims. Maximizing flow is top priority for a large high light tank, and that means the FX5s. As Gavin mentions it's shouldn't be that tough to custom fit spraybars, even if you don't want to do the acrylic . I suggested that because the acrylic would be more aesthetic, but as stated, you can get standard piping from the pond shop and make it work. This should not at all be a deterrent.

Cheers,


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Oh i didnt mean it beat over all flow, just that it didnt lose as much a percentage as the fx5 did. Even though the fx5 was still much higher. Two fx5s it is then. Two of these new is equal almost to one 2080...I'll just need to work out spray bar fittings and different tubing then. 
It is definitely staying lightly stocked, just heavily planted. Not scaped particularly as I'm concentrating on the growing plants more. 
I do Like the acrylic look though, maybe it's possible to have acrylic bars fitted. I'd just need to find someone who'd be willing to make them


----------



## ceg4048 (18 May 2011)

Oh, OK, yeah, don't worry about percentages, just the absolute value of the throughput. Now remember we're only focused on flow comparisons, not quality/workmanship, or noise, or ergonomics and all that OK, so don't bash us later on if you don't like the garish orange trim...  

Plastic piping ought to be pretty cheap just to get started. You might want to contact Tyophagus, the author of the thread http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11074&start=70 he might agree to fabricate and ship a bar for you for the right price.

Cheers,


----------



## Alastair (18 May 2011)

Ha ha I should be ok with the orange trim, it'll be behind closed doors most of the time..on the subject of noise, I did notice in that thread about them that the fx5 was significantly louder. Is the 40 something decibel loud?? Im just hoping it's not annoyingly noisy (partly the only reason I'm parting with my ex2400. I just find the loud hum distracting somewhat....
Thanks for that link by the way. I did have a good read of that not too long ago.


----------



## ceg4048 (19 May 2011)

Well, no, 40dB isn't very loud at all. The thing is that the 2080 is very silent, so by comparison the FX5 would be akin to a freight train. I mean, that's one of the reasons that Eheim is twice as expensive as every other filter. If you place the filters in the cupboard and set them on a foam or rubber padding then this mutes the sound a bit. If silence is a priority then try going to a shop to see if you can get a demo. Noise is very subjective and it also depends on what other noise is surrounding the filters.

Here is s decibel comparison chart: http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html


Cheers,


----------



## mdhardy01 (19 May 2011)

I agree with Clive
I run 2180 and a fx5 and there is no way the 2180 competes flow wise to the fx5 
On the fx5 I use the standard pipe but then stepped it down with 20 mm pipe fittings then use the fluvial spay bars 
On the 2180  I use the fluval bars too and can use 2
On the fx5 I use 4 and have re drilled the holes to 3 mm and still get more power from the fx5 
Matt


----------



## ceg4048 (19 May 2011)

Matt, can you give your thoughts of noise comparison question between the two models? That seems to be a priority for Alastair.

Cheers,


----------



## mdhardy01 (19 May 2011)

Hi Clive
Yeah no probs
The fx5 is louder only in the fact that it is a slightly louder hum
With the cabinet doors closed and standing a couple of feet away you can hardly hear anything 
Alastair has pm'd me for photos of my pipe work to mod a spray bar for the fx5 so I will do what I can and post here
Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

Thanks Clive, yeah noise is a factor, especially with the juwel cabinets, as the cupboards are open backed. That's partly why I've gone against just getting another ex2400 for the other side. They aren't quiet at all. Bloody powerful though and 20 litres of media is perfect. I can't even fit fibre glass insulation in and with my living room not being particularly too big the noise is frustrating at times. Plus, two ex2400s equals 120 watts of juice....


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

And thanks for the info on the noise too matt. Doesn't sound bad then. I don't have anywhere local that would have them in where I can here one running


----------



## mdhardy01 (19 May 2011)

Here's the photos
The pipe entering the tank is what you get with the fx5
Then I added a 20 mm L bend secured with hose clip then I've got my up aqua atomiser ( ugly I know nut works a treat)
The rubber connectors are the ones that come with the fluval spray bars to connect them 
Full tank shot so you can see the full lenth spray bar at the top




Hope this helps
Matt



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

I see, looks a lot more simpler once I've seen the pics, I dont necessarily have to down size to 20mm though do I? I've I'm to run two then I could get bigger black piping couldn't i for a spray bar for each?
Lovely tank by the way matt


----------



## mdhardy01 (19 May 2011)

No you don't have to step down
The only reason I did is because I had the fittings lying around 
Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

Cheers mate...in that case I've just stook my current filters up in the for sale section. Just one other question mate, roughly how often are you having to clean out the sponges around the outsides, and what do you use as media on the inner trays. Are these ok to be filled with just sintered glass?


----------



## mdhardy01 (19 May 2011)

The sponges I clean about once a month and I'm fairly heavily stocked and yeah ceramic media is fine I've got eheim effimech pro in mine as I had loads over from the 2180 
Just remember that even though the pipe is large it will still need cleaning it's amazing how much gunk builds up
Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

I gather you mean the ribbed pipes? I can imagine they do collect some in there with not being smooth. I'd probably just get the big pond pipe cleaners for those


----------



## Alastair (19 May 2011)

found one online for 70 squid 4 months old, just needs media and hoses??? sound good?


----------

