# 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank(updated)



## clint24 (9 Apr 2009)

Hi.I am thinking off changing my lilly pipe to a 21 inch long glass spray bar.I have not been really impressed with my lilly pipe  & have read that a spray bar on the back of the tank gives a better flow.Would a 21 inch spray bar be over kill or would it be ok.I am attaching it to a Eheim 2324 filter with a Cal Aqua inline diffuser.Please let me know your thoughts.Thanks.


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## George Farmer (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Sounds fine to me.  The longer the better to get improved circulation.  

Just ensure your filter is powerful enough to do it justice.

Lily pipes in particular benefit from high flow rates, due to their design.  This may be why you're not so impressed with yours, as the 2324 isn't particularly powerful, especially with media and any in-line gear.

This said, if you're not running a 'high' light/CO2 set-up then levels of circulation become less important.

I hope that helps.


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## clint24 (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Hi George.My Eheim has a flow rate off 700l/ph,this is the biggest filter(with a built in heater) I could fit in my cabinet.What would be the ideal flow rate for my 65 litre tank & how could I achieve it.Thanks.


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## George Farmer (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Hi Clint

700lph sounds about right for a 65 litre.  

If you're packed with 'tight' media, such as floss or fine sponge, this will affect flow considerably.  Personally I remove any floss or sponge (except one coarse sponge) from my filters and rely more on ceramic-types to act as mech/bio filtration.

I've no personal experience of the Cal Aqua in-line diffuser so am unsure how it may affect flow rate.  I know Clive uses one, so he may be able to shed more light on the matter.

Another option is to use a powerhead to improve circulation but these can be hard to hide in a smaller aquarium, if indeed hiding gear is a priority for you.


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## clint24 (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Hi.In my filter is the standard media that came with it,which is  bio mech first then a course sponge then substrat pro(splinter glass) then last is a fine filter wool.The reason i need more flow is because i have BGA covering my plants & gravel.I recently changed 1 of my t5 tubes & changed fertilizer & since then the bga has arrived.Powerhead would be last resort.Cheers.


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## Vito (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> If you're packed with 'tight' media, such as floss or fine sponge, this will affect flow considerably.  Personally I remove any floss or sponge (except one coarse sponge) from my filters and rely more on ceramic-types to act as mech/bio filtration.



Just a question on that note George, in your experiance with a TTEX1200, did you remove any meadia from it, at the moment I have the white pad on top followed by the black sponges and then bio balls in tray two, tray 3 has ehiem substrate pro with a another black sponge on top and last tray has ceramic tubes with sponge on top. 
Too much media?
Vito


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## a1Matt (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
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I know I am not George but here is my experience...

I found that when clean the amount of media in my EX1200 did not make much difference to the flow .
When it gets dirtier though it makes a noticeable difference.  I took out all bar one piece of the black foam and replaced it with one sintered glass pouch (about half the size of one piece of black foam). Works very well for me.  

I then also got rid of the foam pad when it was dirty, and replaced it with a whole tray full of polyester stuffing. Probably not best for flow, but gives me very clear water.


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## George Farmer (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*



			
				Vito said:
			
		

> George Farmer said:
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To be honest, I can't remember!  If it were now, I'd remove the fine sponge and leave everything else that's supplied.

I don't think there's a particular 'right' way to fill your filter.  Experiment and see what works best for you.  All I know is that I prefer to get the best circulation possible without having to add extra powerheads, or compromise too much on bio/mech filtration.  

I hope that helps.


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## Dave Spencer (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

I use the Cal Aqua inline diffuser on my 60cm, and am happy with it. It will reduce flow, but probably not as much as an inline reactor would. I try to make the run of pipework after the diffuser as long as possible so that only a minimal amount of CO2 bubbles enter the tank.

Dave.


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## ceg4048 (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Actually I've found that the flow reduction for similarly sized inlet reduction is more or less the same regardless of the type of reactor. In other words, a Cal inline reactor which has a 13mm spud will reduce the flow about as much as say an Aquamedic reactor which uses a 13mm inlet spud assuming that the filter hose is 16mm. if one can afford the Cal 17mm unit the difference is significant.

Dave there is a limit to how effective lengthening the tube will be since frictional losses add up with increasing length. So length negatively impacts flow rate as well - even though it may help with giving the bubbles more time to dissolve. I guess it's a trade off. You could mount the diffuser closer to the filter spud for example to improve the bubble travel time while keeping the overall length down. On small tanks this may all be irrelevant though because everything is shorter/smaller. 

Cheers,


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## clint24 (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Thanks everyone.I to didnot notice much differance in flow loss when i fitted the cal inline.I also make sure i don't cram to much filter media.I am going to try the spray bar & let you know.Thanks


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## George Farmer (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*



			
				clint24 said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone.I to didnot notice much differance in flow loss when i fitted the cal inline.I also make sure i don't cram to much filter media.I am going to try the spray bar & let you know.Thanks


All the best with it.   Let us know how you get on, please.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (9 Apr 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank*

Gang@Ukaps

Please find attached diagram of Ex1200 filtration layout.






I am curently running in my Eheim 2080 and my mix of filter media the majority is from my old 1200 of which I will be removing over a period of time, the mix is as follows:


Starting from bottom to top:

Bottom tray: Tetratec noodles + Black sponge + Eheim noddles.
Middle tray: Bio  balls + black sponge topped up with substrat pro
Top tray: Substrat pro + black sponge buried in the middle 
Then white filter floss - as supplied.
Outlet pipe from filter into reactor, fill with siporax, Co2 injected into Aqua medic 1000 reactor 

Quite a mix - but its the only way to culture bacteria.

As for spray bars or lily pipes - i am going to be experimenting with a longer spary bar, double the length that eheim supply, its going from 16" to 32"  because at the moment all my tall plants are being pushed to the front and my rummies when swimming for left to right or vice versa are at 70 degrees trying to beat the flow. If this does not work I will have to buy to lily pipes, but that going to be dear as i need two glass inlets and 1 glass outlet.

Regards
Paul.


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## clint24 (3 May 2009)

*Re: 21inch spraybar in a 24inch tank(update)*

Hi Guys.As promised a update.Sorry took a while but a lot has happen the last few weeks.Got the glass spray bar a few weeks ago & fitted it on a Sunday and noticed gentle alround flow .On Monday i came home from work and find all my plants pearling.Unfortunately I had a accident and broke the spray bar.I replaced it with a Aqua One sray bar which is about 2inches longer and a clear smoked colour and the flow is so much better than the glass spray bar as the holes are further apart.Plants are growing new bottom leaves as well which is great.So in my mind lily pipes are okay but in my case spray bars are better.Funny thing is i fitted the lily pipe on my mums 50cm wide & is quite tall & her guppies love it they swim around alot more & their colours seem to have come out more.So one way works one tank & another way for another tank,every tank is unique.


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