# Dogs and turf.



## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Jun 2014)

Hello,
Sorry for the odd topic name, but  i laid a turf in our back garden maybe 8 weeks ago.
I know its a common problem, but is there any way to, if not solve the problem of dog Urine  burns completely, help it a little.

Alternative is to put fencing pins around grass and keep him off it for a month or two.

Cheers,
N


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## Tim Harrison (18 Jun 2014)

Concrete...gravel...get rid of dog


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## NC10 (18 Jun 2014)

If he's out all day, it's going to be hard without actually fencing it off like you've said.

If you only let him out for a quick pee, a bucket of water over it when he's finished will dilute it. Or a quick blast with the hose pipe if you have one handy.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Jun 2014)

NC10 said:


> If he's out all day, it's going to be hard without actually fencing it off like you've said.
> 
> If you only let him out for a quick pee, a bucket of water over it when he's finished will dilute it. Or a quick blast with the hose pipe if you have one handy.



Yeah, thats pretty much my method as it stands but back doors normally open when were in. So he can just roam in and out. 

Apparently theres dietary advice that could help? Like less red meat or natural supplements etc.


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## nickmcmechan (18 Jun 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Yeah, thats pretty much my method as it stands but back doors normally open when were in. So he can just roam in and out.
> 
> Apparently theres dietary advice that could help? Like less red meat or natural supplements etc.



Avoid the natural supplements as there is emerging evidence they may be harmful to your dog (if you mean the ones sold to avoid pee burns)

Less red meat may have negatives effects on the dogs health - 'a butchers dog is a healthy dog' as the old saying goes. Mine are fed a raw food diet and I have seen significant health improvements in mine as a result.

I no longer have grass, you'll find a lot of dog owners who don't. 

A potential solution would be a sandpit and clicker train your dog to toilet there. I an give you a step by step how todo this if you wish.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (18 Jun 2014)

nickmcmechan said:


> Avoid the natural supplements as there is emerging evidence they may be harmful to your dog (if you mean the ones sold to avoid pee burns)
> 
> Less red meat may have negatives effects on the dogs health - 'a butchers dog is a healthy dog' as the old saying goes. Mine are fed a raw food diet and I have seen significant health improvements in mine as a result.
> 
> ...



Hi nick,

I was not referring to any of the marketed items to help burning as i am aware of the potential negative effects these have on dogs.

In terms of less red meat, i should have stated less processed 'dog food' meat. He currently has butchers Tripe in the big tins and some skinners Light and senior (just to drop his weight a little). Meat is good for you, but fish is definitely better. Rarely i eat red meat, but eat fish almost everyday. 

I read some ingredients in the food itself can have an effect.

That clicker method would be excellent thank you. Would it be possible to post it here? 

Once rooted properly, does turf become more hardy with urine or does it continue to burn as badly? 

Thanks for your help,
N


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## Maximum (19 Jun 2014)

How about creating a toilet area for your dog. It takes time to train them to only go in that area and to start with you would have to go out with the dog, give your chosen command (I use Hurry) and wait and praise. I puppy walk for Guide Dogs and the pups are trained from 7 weeks to toilet on command in a set area. I found it so useful that I trained my own dogs to do the same - it is worth the effort but you have to be consistent and older dogs do take longer.
Diet might alter the urine but if the dog is not drinking enough the urine will be very strong and more likely to scorch. I would stay away from highly processed dry kibble foods - have you looked at the ingredients! The dry foods also require the dog to drink a lot and some dogs never take in enough water. Dogs are carnivores so should have a meat diet, they can survive on wheat grain and barley and potato etc but surviving is not thriving. The non meat ingredients are just cheap fillers. A balanced raw diet is more natural and also has the advantage of containing a high proportion of water.  If the dog is over weight then basically it needs to eat less or exercise more - a bit like us!


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## Alastair (19 Jun 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Hi nick,
> 
> I was not referring to any of the marketed items to help burning as i am aware of the potential negative effects these have on dogs.
> 
> ...



It'll still burn nath. It's the ammonia in it too. 
I'd slowly switch to the barf diet it's what I do and helps massively. No strong urine smells, less wind and mainly white chalky number 2s. 

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk 2


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## Gruff (19 Jun 2014)

And the how is the dog Alastair?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (19 Jun 2014)

Thanks for your replies. I wasnt intending on doing away with any meat source, maybe alternate it a bit? With more fresh fish and the like.

Im going to look into the sandpit/ area training exercise. Seems like a good method.


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## Lindy (19 Jun 2014)

I have an area for my dog to pee. It does need washed down though in dry spells.  I give my dog whole frozen mackerel and he eats the lot. Gives him something to chew without bone risk, great for his teeth and having to chew at their food seems to have a really therapeutic effect. Mackerel is often on discount at the fish counter as a lot of folk don't like it. He'll eat it fresh too but it goes too quickly that way. If you fancy doing the barf diet but worry about bones there is a company that posts blended, prepared frozen raw food to your door. Or just go to your butcher and ask for lamb ribs, often they are free too. As long as any bones you feed aren't weight bearing ones they should be ok. It takes about 30 min for my collie to demolish half a lamb ribcage, you can't say the same for prepared foods!
You could put a post up somewhere or a big log or stump to encourage him to pee in the same place.


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## RichardJW (19 Jun 2014)

That's dogs for you ! My lawn is over 100yrs old and is severely compacted , I find as I repair it ( with utility seed )and improve the substructure it is more resistant to burning . This time if year is drier and is more of a problem - when it's raining it doesn't seem to be a problem !!
And of course when you can dilute it with a bucket of water !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nickmcmechan (19 Jun 2014)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Hi nick,
> 
> I was not referring to any of the marketed items to help burning as i am aware of the potential negative effects these have on dogs.
> 
> ...



Hi,

Dogs do well on fish and I often feed raw fish to mine.

The clicker method first came about in the 70s when some of the top trainers (Ian Dunbar for one) noticed that killer whales and parrots were trained this way. Both can be agressive if treated badly and modern dog training was, even back then, moving towards kinder, more motivational techniques. It is now quite common in dog training and whilst not the be all and end all it can be quite effective. Google Karen pyro who has excellent resources for most scenarios online and provides them free.

To start you need to 'charge' the clicker. I do this using the Clicker (you can get them off ebay easy enough) and a bag full of cut up hot dog sausages (note this is indeed dog junk food, but you'll be more motivated to have a fancy meal as a treat rather than an apple, right?)

I then hold the clicker behind my back, out of sight, click and instantaneously (within 2 seconds at most) treat the dog. I repeat this about 30 times in the first session have a break and repeat a few sessions over a couple of days. Soon, when you click the dog will look for a treat coming its gets it. Then start treating every second time, the. Third and then vary. If the dog loses interest at any point wind back a couple of steps and start again. What you have done here is moved from a 'fixed reinforcement schedule' to a 'variable reinforcement schedule'. I.e. The dog moves from automatically collecting its pay packet every week to becoming a gambling addict at a hot dog slot machine.

You have now conditioned your dog to the clicker.

Now the garden. 

When the dog pees near the sand pit click and reward. Mentally note the distance. Next time click for the same distance. If the dog is ever closer click. And then start clicking for closer and closer distance you have noticed. Eventually only click and reward for a sandpit pee. This may take some time. On thie first occasion the dog pees the sandpit click and reward and don't reward for peeing away for it unless it's really near. After a while the dog will get it and a over a period of some weeks you will not have to reward every time.

Hope that makes sense. It's easier I practice than writing in words


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (19 Jun 2014)

That makes perfect sense Nick, thank you very much for taking the time.

Putting it into practice will be the hard bit. Ill try my best!


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## ian_m (19 Jun 2014)

With our dog always peeing on same spot, put out string on posts to force weeing elsewhere and use iron sulphate and/or ammonium sulphate to neutralise the wee to allow grass to grow back.


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## Ady34 (19 Jun 2014)

Tell him he needs to pee like a man and cock his leg not squat on the lawn! Hammer in some pee posts if there's nothing for him to cock against


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## Viv (23 Jun 2014)

I've found this very interesting, and it made me realise something. I've had dogs for 30ish years (I currently have a 5 year old cocker and a 12 year old toy poodle, both female, though I have had males before too), but haven't had a problem with grass burn for the last 15 years or so - not since I changed to a premium dry dog food (James Well beloved if anyone wants to know ). I feed dry because it fits with my lifestyle and I find wet food messy when you have fussy eaters. Years ago I fed canned food and did have a problem with grass burn, also had this problem with a cheaper dry food. It could be because of ingredients though. It doesn't have cereals or potato in which, from reading about it online, make the problem worse.

Viv


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Jun 2014)

Viv said:


> I've found this very interesting, and it made me realise something. I've had dogs for 30ish years (I currently have a 5 year old cocker and a 12 year old toy poodle, both female, though I have had males before too), but haven't had a problem with grass burn for the last 15 years or so - not since I changed to a premium dry dog food (James Well beloved if anyone wants to know ). I feed dry because it fits with my lifestyle and I find wet food messy when you have fussy eaters. Years ago I fed canned food and did have a problem with grass burn, also had this problem with a cheaper dry food. It could be because of ingredients though. It doesn't have cereals or potato in which, from reading about it online, make the problem worse.
> 
> Viv



Thats great Viv, thanks for the info.
Maybe i should give this a go and supplement with fresh meat only, as oppose to the tinned stuff.

Cheers,
N


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## Viv (23 Jun 2014)

Somethings been niggling me about what I wrote and so after checking I should amend to: doesn't contain gluten-containing cereals  My westie did well on it too and unlike many others of her breed, never had skin conditions. If
you do try it make sure fresh water is always available (probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but having known people who didn't seem to realise live plants require water it's better to err on the side of caution!).

Viv

PS There's no need to give other protein - although of course the dogs do love it (and the occasional carrot )


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## Lindy (23 Jun 2014)

Viv said:


> (James Well beloved if anyone wants to know )


I feed this too along with tinned butchers tripe. A lot of processed dog foods contain too much protein, salt and sugars. I know many folk in the dog world who feed bakers dog food if they have an underweight dogs as bakers makes dogs fat.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Jun 2014)

ldcgroomer said:


> I feed this too along with tinned butchers tripe. A lot of processed dog foods contain too much protein, salt and sugars. I know many folk in the dog world who feed bakers dog food if they have an underweight dogs as bakers makes dogs fat.



Tinned butchers tripe is what mine currently gets. Did feed him on wellbeloved  too but it was getting expensive with another dog. 
Ill have to try him again.


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## Maximum (24 Jun 2014)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyl...rawn-over-the-nations-favourite-dog-food.html
This is a thought provoking read!! The which dog food website mentioned is excellent.
If you had heavy rain today the lawn should be nicely washed!


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## nickmcmechan (29 Jun 2014)

ldcgroomer said:


> I feed this too along with tinned butchers tripe. A lot of processed dog foods contain too much protein, salt and sugars. I know many folk in the dog world who feed bakers dog food if they have an underweight dogs as bakers makes dogs fat.



I don't think its possible to feed too much protein, but easily possible to feed too much poor quality protein, leather shoes are indeed protein after all. Raw meat is about 20-30% protein. Some dry food manufacturers claim high amounts but it may not be digestible. When I fed dry food I used Arden Grange but if I,were to feed it now I would feed Orijen.

As you point out salt and sugar and completely unnecessary in a dogs diet and are only added to make the food palatable, so when you try the dog on an alternate healthier food , they refuse it, much like a child who is spoilt with sweeties being offered a vegetable instead. My only issue with James Well Beloved mentioned above is that  they add salt.

Bakers is a complete no-no, it contains additives linked with human ADHD and Cancer. It actually harms your dogs health.

I'm not sure about the food type causing or eliminating pee burns in grass as it is simply ammonia that causes the burns  which is always presents in a dogs pee (ammonia is something we know about here  ). Bitches tend to cause more than dogs as they pee in a puddle whereas dogs will cock their legs, typically against something so the burn patch is smaller as it is mostly reflected spray.


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