# Pearling plants and natural sunlight



## DHenry (19 Dec 2010)

My tank is not in direct sunlight most of the year but come winter when the sun is much lower in the sky there are a few morning rays that hit the tank. The tank is 60l with pressurised Co2 and DIY lighting. I occasionally my plants pearl. Often the riccia but not much else. I have noticed that when the sun hits the tank all of my plants start pearling almost right away. The riccia, HC and even the pogostemon helferi. When the sun goes down and my lights take over the pearling usually goes away.

Does this mean I need higher light. I have been fighting some filamentous algae lately. What triggers the pearling and what does it mean? I am sure pearling has been covered a lot but I couldn't find what I needed through the search. Cheers.


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## sjb123 (19 Dec 2010)

Hi,

  Have a look here, might help explain?
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=112&p=527&hilit=pearling#p527

Cheers Steve,


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## ceg4048 (19 Dec 2010)

People with filamentous algae have no business adding more light. Filamentous algae is caused by too much light and poor CO2. Therefore if you want to get rid of that algae and induce more pearling you need to add more CO2.

Also, please refrain from double posting! The duplicate posts have been deleted.

Cheers,


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## DHenry (20 Dec 2010)

That is what I thought. I just wondered why the sun made the plants pearl and my lights didn't but it may be down to other factors that the sun has that my lights obviously don't. Being that my lights are DIY and high output LED there is little I can do to judge how much light I really have. All this being said my Co2 is basically maxed out. It is as high as it will go whilst keeping the fish happy, drop checker is lime/yellow green. I believe flow to be very good also. There is enough flow to blow the substrate in areas making little craters, the water is moving fast across the substrate and I can see plenty of Co2 bubbles rushing past all of the plants. The HC is the only plant struggling. and the only plant now with the filamentous algae. I dose 2ml of TPN+ daily. The HC is growing but fairly slow and it looks a little thin. the new leaves are smaller than the old and the whole plant looks like its lost weight. Leaves thinner, stems thinner.

Would it be more beneficial to reduce the intensity of the light rather than the photo period. As this is a DIY setup made from 3w high output LED's I can add and remove them as I please. I was also thinking if I should add a RED LED. Reading about LED grow lights for emersed plants it seems that most people just use blue and red. I already have a blue and thought I should maybe add a red. I will probably remove 1 or 2 whites at least, maybe add a red and see how this goes. Thanks for the advice.


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## Anonymous (20 Dec 2010)

I'll skip the answer regarding the light configuration and tell you that if you see an area with algae in your tank that means there is not enough CO2 due the flow that is not correctly distributed (bad flow means detritus/organic matter is accumulating and that area becomes toxic for plants and thriving for algae). Usually at substrate level this is a common problem.

Cheers,
Mike


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## DHenry (20 Dec 2010)

Hmmm, I will see what I can do although I feel more flow might rip the HC straight out of the substrate.

Also, I moved things about a little only a week ago. Placing the ceramic diffuser under the pump. I will see if i can take a video. Perhaps it will take a little more time for the benefits to show. After more research I am wondering if ultimately I might need more intensity over a shorter period but I will worry about that after I have adequate flow and Co2 distribution.


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## ceg4048 (20 Dec 2010)

DHenry said:
			
		

> That is what I thought. I just wondered why the sun made the plants pearl and my lights didn't but it may be down to other factors that the sun has that my lights obviously don't. Being that my lights are DIY and high output LED there is little I can do to judge how much light I really have.


The intensity of the sunlight increases the rate of photosynthesis as it makes contact with the leaves. As the photosynthetic rate increases, the rate of Oxygen production increases proportionally. This O2 production rate increase is reflected in the bubbles you see escaping. However, this is not always a good thing because the same light intensity that drives the plants to increase their photosynthetic rate also drives algae to increase their photosynthetic rate as well so it's entirely possible to overdrive the plants while encouraging algae simultaneously. You should therefore avoid use pearling as an indicator of success because you can easily end up with a tankful of algae that pearls.



			
				DHenry said:
			
		

> All this being said my Co2 is basically maxed out. It is as high as it will go whilst keeping the fish happy, drop checker is lime/yellow green. I believe flow to be very good also. There is enough flow to blow the substrate in areas making little craters, the water is moving fast across the substrate and I can see plenty of Co2 bubbles rushing past all of the plants. The HC is the only plant struggling. and the only plant now with the filamentous algae. I dose 2ml of TPN+ daily. The HC is growing but fairly slow and it looks a little thin. the new leaves are smaller than the old and the whole plant looks like its lost weight. Leaves thinner, stems thinner.


Well, the fact that the HC is losing weight proves that there is a weakness somewhere. It's possible that you need to do a better job of dissolving the gas or a better job of getting the flow to the substrate. It would be better if you did not see the bubbles. If you can see the bubbles then this means that the gas is not dissolved properly.



			
				DHenry said:
			
		

> Would it be more beneficial to reduce the intensity of the light rather than the photo period. As this is a DIY setup made from 3w high output LED's I can add and remove them as I please. I was also thinking if I should add a RED LED. Reading about LED grow lights for emersed plants it seems that most people just use blue and red. I already have a blue and thought I should maybe add a red. I will probably remove 1 or 2 whites at least, maybe add a red and see how this goes. Thanks for the advice.


Lowering the intensity is always a good thing. Intensity is always more important than duration. Adding red or white or blue will accomplish nothing other than changing the way that the colors appear to your eye.

Cheers,


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## Anubia (20 Dec 2010)

Clive....sorry to hijack this post but am puzzled by your comment and would like some clarification.

In your stateent  - ' It would be better if you did not see the bubbles. If you can see the bubbles then this means that the gas is not dissolved properly.'

Does this mean that if you can see your diffuser bubbles being emitted and then taken into the filter flow that this is not suitable/ ideal...?

I have a relative good flow in my 30cm cube and have positioned my DAZ nano diffuser at the bottom/ front right hand side of the tank where the filter nozzle flow is directed. C02 is 24/7 but is on low BPM ( 5 BPM)...This is a planted scape with CRS shrimp invertebrates...Thoughts please...

Enjoyed this thread guys , so thx.


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## ceg4048 (20 Dec 2010)

Hi, Sorry for the confusion. What I was trying to say is that when you use a traditional injector such as the ceramic in-tank diffuser or an external unit like an atomizer, Aquamedic and so forth, the idea is to churn all the bubbles until they disappear by the time they enter the tank. If bubbles are entering the tank then this is wasteful because the bubbles rise and almost immediately escape. The longer we can keep bubbles submerged then the better the chance we have of dissolving them into the water. If you watch individual bubbles closely, you'll find that they don't really stay submerged for very long before they reach the surface and escape. When the bubble is properly dissolved it disappears and so the water retains the dissolved gas for longer than it would if it stayed as a bubble. So if your spraybar or lily pipe is spurting out bubbles then this is not really a good thing. Seeing a tank full of CO2 bubbles is not really what you want. Now, if it's an internal unit then there is nothing you can do about that because that's just how it is. For small tanks this is not really that big of a deal anyway. It's when the tank size increases that this issue becomes significant and that's what the external in-line units are preferred as tank size increases.

There are however more advanced forms of diffusion that actually chop up the bubbles up into very small sizes. The size is so small that the bubbles appear as a mist or fog. These techniques are different in that the very fine bubbles actually are a good thing because they are almost like atmospheric CO2, so when the mist makes contact with the plants they have an effect similar to atmospheric CO2. These smaller mist type bubbles also dissolve more quickly so that CO2 saturation in the water is much more efficient.

None of the techniques currently being used by conventional means, whether external units or in-tank units are capable of generating this fine mist, therefore any visible bubble in the tank is evidence of inefficiency and rapid gas loss. That means there can be enough gas dissolved to stress the fish but not enough contact time with the plants to maximize photosynthesis.

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers,


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## DHenry (21 Dec 2010)

All really great information. I do appreciate your wealth of knowledge. Been reading a lot about light colour and the general consensus seems to be that it doesn't amount to much at least under water that is.

As for Co2 distribution. It has been about 8 days since I moved my diffuser. The HC spent about 2 weeks with the diffuser at the front of the tank where most bubbles were fairly large and went straight up. Last weekend I moved the diffuser directly under the tunze pump. Now the bubbles get sucked into its impeller and smashed up into tiny bubbles. It is almost mist like but still visible. The bubbles dont rise straight to the surface like they did before though. They swirl around the tank. There is a very even distribution of these fine bubbles throughout the whole tank. Even in the corners. I am sure I need to be patient and wait for the HC to adapt to the better Co2 distribution. I will keep cleaning the algae and hope for some improvement.

Other than the HC having lost weight and getting the algae in it, it has grown new leaves and they are nice and green. Much smaller than the ones it had though. Without having actually seen it would you agree that the loss of weight would most likely be a deficiency in Co2 as opposed to nutrients?

I have reduced my photoperiod by an hour and half. I still might remove an LED to reduce the intensity. Thanks again.


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## ceg4048 (21 Dec 2010)

Hi,
   Yes, getting flow to the substrate is always difficult and that's why I like to use spraybars connected to very muscular filters (in concert with external in-line diffusers) to help shape the circular flow towards the bottom of the tank. The bars don't have the most elegant look but you can place them almost out of the water to hide them, especially if you get the dark smoky colored ones.

That's a really good idea that you have with sending the bubbles into the Tunze. You can play with the pump placement to optimize contact time.



			
				DHenry said:
			
		

> Other than the HC having lost weight and getting the algae in it, it has grown new leaves and they are nice and green. Much smaller than the ones it had though. Without having actually seen it would you agree that the loss of weight would most likely be a deficiency in Co2 as opposed to nutrients?


Yep, when troubleshooting health problems always start with the most basic and fundamental known properties. In a way that's like committing your multiplication tables to memory so that it becomes automatic. 
Here is your 2X table:
"In our tanks, Filamentous algae is only ever caused by poor CO2."

So automatically you know that you have poor CO2 when you see this type of algae. 

3X table:
HC as well as just about all carpet plants has a very high CO2 Compensation Point. This means that they require more CO2 just to survive than other more robust plants such as ferns or swords.

So automatically you know that if your focus is to grow carpet plants you must optimize your setup to cater to this weakest, least efficient of CO2 feeders.

4X table:
Over 40% of a plant's mass is made up of Carbon, which is integral to growth. Any anomaly affecting plant mass or structure is due to a failure to assimilate Carbon. Anyone who's been on a diet knows that the fastest way to lose weight is to cut out the Carbon products such as sugars and starch.

The combination of the factors that you have observed (or at least what you have reported) in the tank leads you immediately in the direction of CO2 without even having to think about it. This does not mean that you don't have other problems as well though. You could easily have both a Carbon problem as well as a nutrient problem, however, nutrient problems will have their own automatic multiplication tables. This enables you to look at the tank and to draw the right conclusions regarding cause and effect.

Cheers,


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## DHenry (21 Dec 2010)

Excellent stuff. I think my nutrients are ok at present. Either way I will tackle the flow/co2 first. This all makes quite logical sense.

As for making adjustments to flow and co2 (i know it must vary greatly from tank to tank) how long should one try a new flow pattern before moving on. Say, if I see no improvement after 1 week, 2 weeks etc. Try something else. As I said before it has been about 8 days since I rearranged. So far I haven't noticed much difference but I have read that HC can take a while to settle in. Although saying that I moved the Tunze up higher in the tank which has help create a more circular flow pattern. I did have the pump quite low to reach the substrate but it might be more efficient up high where it creates more of a circular movement down the front of the glass and back along the substrate. It seems to get more water moving this way.

And obviously, by reducing my light intensity I should reduce the demand for co2 and nutrients on the plants and therefore help alleviate any deficiency.

I think this was bound to happen with a DIY LED setup as there is very little information about how much light one actually produces. Might be interesting to get to PAR readings on this one. Thanks again.


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## ceg4048 (21 Dec 2010)

Yes, I think you're getting the big picture now.



			
				DHenry said:
			
		

> As for making adjustments to flow and co2 (i know it must vary greatly from tank to tank) how long should one try a new flow pattern before moving on. Say, if I see no improvement after 1 week, 2 weeks etc. Try something else. As I said before it has been about 8 days since I rearranged...


It takes a week or two for the CO2 adjustments to show results, depending on the degree of change. How you read the adjustments is important. If the plants were disintegrating prior and then stabilize their mass then this is a sign of improvement. If you see new growth this of course is an improvement. If you see a decline in the amount of filamentous algae this is an excellent sign.

If you want to improve things further you could do short term supplementation of liquid carbon products. HC responds very nicely to liquid carbon, but of course some other plants do not, so it depends on what else you have in the tank.

Cheers,


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## DHenry (21 Dec 2010)

I have been dosing 2ml easy carbo everyday along with the TPN+. With no visible detriment to anything in the tank. I am thinking about a DIY spray bar for my filter output. Maybe a xmas project. Also thinking about another Tunze mini pump. Perhaps a spray bar between two mini pumps either side. That would make for loads of flow. Thanks again. I will keep a close watch on the HC and wait for some improvement. Thanks again.


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## Anubia (21 Dec 2010)

Hope this clarifies.

Cheers,[/quote]

As per usual Clive your input is very concise and helpful.....Thankyou again for your time for a most enjoyable thread and big thanks to the forum management.

Enjoy the Christmas break and  New Year.


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## DHenry (22 Dec 2010)

I was a little embarrassed to admit but 2 days ago a spotted of few patches of BGA on the substrate near the HC. About the size of a 5p. However, after considering your advice and making some adjustments it has already disappeared. I couldn't believe it when I got home yesterday. It looked like somebody had gone in there and cleaned up the gravel. I almost think the filamentous algae is showing a reduction as well. Hard to tell for sure yet but I think that things are improving.


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## ceg4048 (22 Dec 2010)

Yeah, good flow/distribution is like having a priest who gives you absolution for your most heinous transgressions...  

Cheers,


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## Anubia (24 Dec 2010)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Yeah, good flow/distribution is like having a priest who gives you absolution for your most heinous transgressions...
> 
> Cheers,




Your profile picture does look like you do require some absolution for your transgressions....LOL....

Enjoy Clive..


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## ceg4048 (24 Dec 2010)

Oh, that's only what I look like when I broadcast my pirate signal and hack into The Matrix. That's called "residual self-image". It's the mental projection of my digital self.

This is what I look like in the real world (hardly any need for absolution):





Cheers,


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## mdhardy01 (26 Dec 2010)

Vast improvement to your profile picture Clive


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## DHenry (5 Jan 2011)

Making some more progress Clive. The film I've been getting at the surface has finally gone. It used to come back about 2 days after water change but no sign of it now after a week. Also, the HC's new leaves are looking fatter and the remaining algae is really not spreading or growing at all. It is getting more stable in there every day and I am starting to see the results. Cheers,

Daniel


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## nry (5 Jan 2011)

I've never noticed increased pearling from sunlight, but what I have done in the past few months is make the CO2 and now Koralia turn on at 9am even though the tank lights are not on until the usual 2pm (through to 10pm).

The tank gets plenty of in-direct sunlight, more direct depending who opens the blinds in the morning 

I think this, and the increased flow from the Koralia, is why finally the BBA in my tank has finally started to go


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