# Accurate testing kits recommendation.



## Twisted Melon (7 Feb 2018)

Could someone please recommend a good accurate water testing kit please?

Thanks


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## dw1305 (7 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Twisted Melon said:


> Could someone please recommend a good accurate water testing kit please? Thanks


It really depends on how much money you have to spend, and how happy you are with the scientific method. 

A lot of the methods and techniques developed on this forum were designed to negate the need for regular water testing, either by using a very limited range of test "kits", like Drop checkers and Conductivity meters, by a regular routine of the addition of nutrients and water changes or by using plant health as a proxy for water quality. 

Have a look at <"Which NO3 Testing Kit...."><"Testing strips vs. ...">, <"Testing for EI">and <"Water testing">.

cheers Darrel


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## Twisted Melon (7 Feb 2018)

Cheers Darrel. 

I’m initially looking to test my tap water for pH/KH/GH etc so I can work out ratios to mix with RO when I get my new tank going. 

Thanks!


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## tam (7 Feb 2018)

Have a look at your water companies report as a starting place - that will give you a rough idea of those.


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## Twisted Melon (7 Feb 2018)

I’ve already looked and it was pretty brief. It only has hardness clark, nitrates, heavy metals. That’s about it. 

Cheers


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## alto (7 Feb 2018)

Email customer service & request a comprehensive report (in my case, it took several phone calls to obtain the appropriate email contact)


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## foxfish (8 Feb 2018)

In short, reliable fresh water test kits are too expensive for the average hobbiest.


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## PARAGUAY (8 Feb 2018)

Sounds a contradiction but the API often wins “best on test” in Practical  Fishkeeping with price a consideration, Seachem have good reputation. Even when test kits are not too  accurate as often mentioned on here because of certain water conditions having a effect .Having a test kit is better than not for a guide alone.Darryl will confirm the really accurate expensive professional ones are dangerous in the hobbyist hands,often difficult to use and the people ,scientists,chemists etc have to be suitably qualified. Water companies tend to be ok if you email a query.


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## Kalum (8 Feb 2018)

Test kits are pretty taboo on here but then water parameters are asked for when diagnosing issues and then the complex (for me anyway) science behind how things work gets talked about which goes over the head of most when starting out. So for most people the liquid kits are the only viable way of monitoring things while learning and understanding how and why things react in the way they do (so the science behind it all starts to make sense)

For me the test kits do a job of getting a rough indication of how your parameters are affected in relation to the changes you make, it helps narrow down issues you're having and as long as you don't just blindly look at the numbers and you use it ONLY as a guide and keep an eye on whats actually happening in your tank as well then it's a good tool to have

I'm using the API master test kit (£25 + £8 KH/GH), if buying again i'd probably get the Sera kit (£70ish)


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## ian_m (8 Feb 2018)

A hobby grade test kit (liquid drop one) will give a rough reading of tap water dKH of soft, medium or hard. (so will water company).

This knowing this...

If tap water is soft, why on earth are you bothering with RO ? Many people here would die to have soft tap water rather than expense (2p litre typical home RO) and the effort of RO. Just add some reminerilising salts to bring upto 4-8dKH, job done.
If tap water is medium softness, just mix tap to RO in 50:50. Job done.
If tap water is hard, just mix tap to RO 25:75. Job done.
A test kit like this will give a reasonable dKH reading, for tap water. Probably won't work with tank water, due to presence of other salts/ions.
https://uk.hach.com/total-hardness-test-kit-model-5-b/product?id=25114234042&callback=qs

If water is too soft, make your own reminerilising salts here, rather than purchase expensive magic ingredient powders.
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm


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## tam (8 Feb 2018)

Most of the liquid kits will give you a good enough reading to know roughly what your water is and unless you are keeping something super fussy/sensitive that's probably all you need for working out ratios.

Asking in your local fish shop is another cheap option, they probably have a good idea what the local water is like and they often offer testing too.

A ph pen is easier/more accurate than a standard test kit but does cost more. So if you just want to test initially it's probably not worth the outlay.

I like a TDS pen (they are about £8) for mixing water once you've decided what you want, particularly RO+reminerals. You test once you are happy and it gives you an instant reading and if you mix to the same number each time you know you have the water the same.


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## dw1305 (8 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Twisted Melon said:


> I’m initially looking to test my tap water for pH/KH/GH etc so I can work out ratios to mix with RO when I get my new tank going.


Definitely what @Tam says, you can get accurate figures from your water company. 





Twisted Melon said:


> hardness clark


That is fine, you can get both dGH and dKH from that.

To convert from degrees English (Clark) to degrees German you multiply by ~0.75, there is a calculator here <"Lenntech hardness convertor">. The dGH and the dKH will be the same because all the hardness is from CaCO3.

You can only really interpret the pH value if you have a hardness value, all tap water is treated now to raise the pH above pH7.

More to follow.....

cheers Darrel


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## Twisted Melon (8 Feb 2018)

Hi. 

Cheers for the info everyone. 

Ian, my water isn’t soft, it’s hard. KH is 11.76. Finally found it on the water company site. 
And thanks for the rough ratio mix for hard water and RO. That was going to be my next question. That’s some Jedi mind tricks there! 

Darrell, cheers for that. I had no idea the KH/GH would be the same. I don’t understand why yet, but it very good to know. 

So I’m thinking I’ll get a API test kit for a rough guide whilst I’m getting going, then a pH pen for monitoring my pH when the CO2 gets setup. 

Awesome!

I wish we had the t’internt when I was doing this 20 years ago!!

Thanks all.


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## dw1305 (8 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Twisted Melon said:


> I had no idea the KH/GH would be the same. I don’t understand why yet, but it very good to know.


It is a bit strange but both dGH and dKH relate back to an equivalent weight of calcium oxide (CaO) there are links in <"Degrees German">.

cheers Darrel


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## sciencefiction (9 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> I’m initially looking to test my tap water for pH/KH/GH etc so I can work out ratios to mix with RO when I get my new tank going



The best way figuring out the mixing with RO is a TDS meter/conductivity meter. The individual measures are not as important and in fact, if you try to match KH/GH/pH, your critters may suffer as its the total conductivity they're more sensitive too....So here I saved you lots of money for test kits, time and headaches with my suggestion


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

sciencefiction said:


> The best way figuring out the mixing with RO is a TDS meter/conductivity meter. The individual measures are not as important and in fact, if you try to match KH/GH/pH, your critters may suffer as its the total conductivity they're more sensitive too....So here I saved you lots of money for test kits, time and headaches with my suggestion



 Now you’ve really lost me??

I know what it stands for, but that’s about it. Is there an Arctic or of post on here that explains it?

Cheers


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Article not arctic!


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## dw1305 (9 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





sciencefiction said:


> The best way figuring out the mixing with RO is a TDS meter/conductivity meter.





Twisted Melon said:


> Now you’ve really lost me?? I know what it stands for, but that’s about it.


It is really straight forward. It just means that you can use your tap water to add calcium carbonate (dGH/dKH) hardness.

Conductivity is a measure of all the dissolved ions in solution and all TDS meters are actually conductivity meters. 

100 microS equivalent to 64ppm TDS, and conductivity is a linear scale from 0 microS all the way to sea-water (~53,000 microS). 

Pure RO water is just H2O and it isn't a conductor of electricity (0 microS.).  H2O is a very efficient solvent and nearly all fresh water is a actually a weak solution of ions, derived from soluble salts. The actual amount of ions varies between soft and hard water, but the ratio of ions remains fairly consistent as conductivity (and hardness) rises. 

The predominant ions in fresh water are calcium (Ca++) and bicarbonate (2HCO3-), derived from the dissolution of limestone in a weak acid. The weak acid in this case is carbonic  acid (H2CO3) formed when atmospheric CO2 dissolves into pure water. Dissolved gases, like oxygen and nitrogen, don't add any conductivity, but a very small proportion of CO2 disassociates into H+ and HCO3- ions. Acids are "H+ ion donors" and you've added an H+ ion.

If I get water from the lab DI unit it will read ~2 microS (that is the dissolved CO2 again), our rain-water is about 100 microS and our tap water (18dKH) about 650 microS. All this water will have a similar amount of CO2 dissolved, but the rain and tap water will have greater amounts of dissolved calcium carbonate. 

To get some hardness you can add your tap supply to your RO. I'd start with about ~1/10 by volume.  If you have a conductivity (TDS) meter, just add enough tap to give you about 100microS (60 ppm TDS). 

The tap water is unlikely to add any magnesium, but "Epsom Salts" (MgSO4.7H20) are a cheap source of magnesium, and you'll add that withthe other plant nutrients.

cheers Darrel


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Cheers Darrell.

Excuse my lack of knowledge, TDS is new to me. 

So if I aim for 100microS is that just giving me the correct TDS so I know what my ratio for RO/tap water is? Can I extrapolate my KH/GH from it? By that I mean is there a direct correlation of 100microS to KH/GH?

When you say 1/10 by volume, is that 1 part tap to 10 parts RO?

Thanks


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## dw1305 (9 Feb 2018)

Hi all,





Twisted Melon said:


> When you say 1/10 by volume, is that 1 part tap to 10 parts RO?


One part tap to nine parts R.O. You can always add salts to the R.O. water, but you can't easily take them away. 

If a 1:9 ratio leaves the conductivity at 50 microS, then 2:8 should give you about 100 microS.  





Twisted Melon said:


> So if I aim for 100microS is that just giving me the correct TDS so I know what my ratio for RO/tap water is? Can I extrapolate my KH/GH from it? By that I mean is there a direct correlation of 100microS to KH/GH?


No,  there isn't a direct correlation between conductivity and hardness, all salts will raise conductivity, but not all will raise the hardness. 

You can use the quoted dKH of the tap water to give you an idea. If we call you tap water dKH 12, then 1/2 tap and 1/2 RO will give~6 dKH and 1/4 tap and 3/4 RO will give you about 3dKH. If you measure the conductivity of this mix it will tell you what the conductivity of the 3 dKH water is. 

If your water comes from a deep aquifer all year around the composition will be pretty constant, but usually the conductivity of tap water will be lower in the winter and higher in the summer (when we have less rain), which is the great beauty of using conductivity, you don't need to test  the water or work out ratios, you just mix RO and tap until you get to your datum value. 

There is nothing magical about 100 microS, I keep soft water fish and I also use Ramshorn snails as a visual indicator of hardness, they don't thrive in very soft water, and they begin to show shell attrition when the hardness is very low. They can only grew new shell at the mantle, and when even the smaller snails begin to show white shell whorls I know I need to add a bit more hardness.

cheers Darrel


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Coor blimey! That took a while for me to get my head around I think. (I’m getting old). 

So if I understand this correctly, I use my quoted figures from the water company and I make a known ratio mix with RO and tap water to give me a microS figure, I then know what my macroS is for that given ratio, and I can then work out what my KH will be for other ratios based on that without the need for test kits!

Awesome. I think?


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## dw1305 (9 Feb 2018)

Hi all, 





Twisted Melon said:


> I use my quoted figures from the water company and I make a known ratio mix with RO and tap water to give me a microS figure, I then know what my microS is for that given ratio, and I can then work out what my KH will be for other ratios based on that without the need for test kits!


Yes, that is the one. 

With something like dKH in the tank you just need to be in the right ball-park, it doesn't need to be exactly any value. 

If you add CO2 it is different. The 4dKH solution for the drop checker, that really needs to be <"4dKH"> or you run the risk of gassing your fish. 

I'm not a CO2 user, partially because of this.  

cheers Darrel


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Thanks as always Darrell


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## sciencefiction (9 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> I then know what my macroS is for that given ratio, and I can then work out what my KH will be for other ratios based on that without the need for test kits!



Darrel has covered pretty much all. Thank you Darrel 

I wanted to mention, besides ensuring that there's some KH to buffer the water, do not worry about any of the other individual figures of GH, pH, etc..What's more important is to do the same TDS/microS figure for the water change. So if you decide on a 100, stick to that for each water change. If your water is that hard, I wouldn't even worry about the KH in the mixture. There'll be enough. Doing regular water changes will also ensure things are stable.


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

sciencefiction said:


> Darrel has covered pretty much all. Thank you Darrel
> 
> I wanted to mention, besides ensuring that there's some KH to buffer the water, do not worry about any of the other individual figures of GH, pH, etc..What's more important is to do the same TDS/microS figure for the water change. So if you decide on a 100, stick to that for each water change. If your water is that hard, I wouldn't even worry about the KH in the mixture. There'll be enough. Doing regular water changes will also ensure things are stable.



That’s a good point. Thanks.

It would be easy to do 50/50 to get 6 dKH for my water (being 12 out the tap) then check the microS so I can match it each week. 

Or should I be aiming for 4dKH?

I’d like to keep cardinals and other fish from South American region.


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## sciencefiction (9 Feb 2018)

Nope, stick to the TDS meter measure, never individual measures.


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## sciencefiction (9 Feb 2018)

The point of having some buffer in the form of the KH you'd measure with a liquid test, is to keep the water stable. KH will be used up during nitrification, in any type of tank,  so in my opinion every soft water tank should have enough KH to last between one water change to the other, even if you have to have your TDS on the higher side, its worth it long term.  Practically, it is not so easy for nitrifying bacteria to use up all the buffer but it can happen with soft water, specifically if one skips water changes, overfeeds or the stock is on the high side.

There are people that keep fish in pure RO but in my opinion one will have better success long term with some hardness, even with very soft water fish. There was an article once I read about kuhli loaches, which come from black water habitats.  The author kept them in extremely soft water for many years and advised long term they eventually get spinal deformities, so some KH and some GH, not fussing about the individual number, and steady TDS is the way to go. In nature, despite the very negligent mineral levels in soft water habitats, there are still some on a micro level, there's huge diversity of food supply, and water is replenished big time. Fish tanks are enclosed systems, different story altogether.


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Badly asked question on my part there. What I was trying to get at is how I choose a value for microS. Darrell says 100 microS, but that it’s not a magic number. 

Is it that 100 microS (60ppm) is a known safe value for TDS? As in enough to provide some hardness and buffer?


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## Twisted Melon (9 Feb 2018)

Ha. You posted that as I was writing my question. I think I get it now! Finally. 

The red wine isn’t helping like!

I’m thinking I’m going to be using a lot more RO that I previously thought!

I take it TDS meters are pretty accurate then? Unlike pH pens?


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## sciencefiction (9 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> I take it TDS meters are pretty accurate then? Unlike pH pens?



Yes, pretty much. Mine always test almost the same ~5ppm plus/minus out of the tap. The tank obviously will change in time, hence the need of regular water changes to equalise things back to whatever value is your water change value.


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## tam (10 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> It would be easy to do 50/50 to get 6 dKH for my water (being 12 out the tap) then check the microS so I can match it each week.



You don't even need to check it, just test the TDS of your tap water and do the same maths. So if you need 50/50 to get the right dKH then you'll just need to halve the tap's TDS too and mix to match that. 

I'd mix to the % of the dKH you want for what you are keeping in the tank rather than pick a TDS to aim for as the TDS measures everything so you can have the same hardness and different TDS. Keep in some mind shrimps and snails, for example, may need a bit more (depending on the species) if you plan to add those in.


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## Twisted Melon (10 Feb 2018)

tam said:


> You don't even need to check it, just test the TDS of your tap water and do the same maths. So if you need 50/50 to get the right dKH then you'll just need to halve the tap's TDS too and mix to match that.
> 
> Good point!
> 
> I'd mix to the % of the dKH you want for what you are keeping in the tank rather than pick a TDS to aim for as the TDS measures everything so you can have the same hardness and different TDS. Keep in some mind shrimps and snails, for example, may need a bit more (depending on the species) if you plan to add those in.



I would like snails and shrimp. What dKH would you recommend I aim for to keep Cardinals and shrimp/snails all happy?


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## ian_m (10 Feb 2018)

If you aim for 8kDH that is a reasonable hardness that supports snail and most fish and has significant buffering to allow greater scope of missed water changes and other cockups.

Also, if you insist on using test kits and/or measuring pH most tests need water of 4-8dKH before any reading is the slightest bit valid. 

Oh and remember to dechlorinate (Prime is best) your RO water as RO units do not guarantee removal of all chlorine and chloramine, especially if levels are high. My local shop test their RO water before sale for chlorine and ammonia. Chlorine comes from failing carbon prefilter and ammonia from prefilter failing to remove ammonia from chloramine. I asked had they ever had a positive result and they said yes...once due to faulty prefilter and another time due to water company adding emergency chloramine. If they had used this water is would have been lethal to fish. Some peole never test their RO water, but many "marine boys" have wiped their tanks out due to not testing (or leaving for a while to degas).


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## Twisted Melon (10 Feb 2018)

Thanks Ian. 

I’ve just been reading up on my water supply and got hold of the averages on the water hardness through the year. It varies from 6 to 12. That’s seems like a big swing to me. Is that normal?

Is that too big a swing to go solely by TDS? I understand now that I only need to be in the rough ball park, as Darrell said, but I could be quite a way off there it seems to me if I’m going off 50/50 mix. 

Or does it not matter because, as Darrell said, it’s not the KH that fish care about, it’s the TDS. 

Have I just answered my own question?

Ta.


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## tam (10 Feb 2018)

I would imagine you'll find your TDS swings to match as GH is part of what it measures. So if you mixed to a fixed TDS you'll find the portion of tap and RO changes but the TDS and GH will stay more stable. 

If you are mixing 50/50 that would mean a change between 6 and 3. So worse case, if your tank was at 6 and your tap was at 3 and you did a 50% water change ignoring the TDS, that would only drop you to 4.5. More likely your tank will be somewhere in the middle to start with and the change would be even less.


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## dw1305 (10 Feb 2018)

Hi all,





Twisted Melon said:


> I’ve just been reading up on my water supply and got hold of the averages on the water hardness through the year. It varies from 6 to 12. That’s seems like a big swing to me. Is that normal?


 Yes, tap water can be variable through the year. It just shows it is a water supply from either, a single variable source (like a river) or range of different sources (river, reservoir and aquifer) which are mixed in different proportions at different times. 





tam said:


> So if you mixed to a fixed TDS you'll find the portion of tap and RO changes but the TDS and GH will stay more stable.


That is the great beauty of using conductivity, you just mix RO and tap until you get to your datum value, you don't need to know the dKH of the tap water. 





Twisted Melon said:


> Or does it not matter because, as Darrell said, it’s not the KH that fish care about, it’s the TDS. Have I just answered my own question?


You have. 





Twisted Melon said:


> I’d like to keep cardinals and other fish from South American region


 They don't actually need any carbonate hardness, it just makes tank management easier if you have some buffering. 

cheers Darrel


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## sciencefiction (10 Feb 2018)

Twisted Melon said:


> I’ve just been reading up on my water supply and got hold of the averages on the water hardness through the year. It varies from 6 to 12. That’s seems like a big swing to me. Is that normal?



Your particular faucet may not be that variable. Over the last 5-6 years my tap TDS has varied by about 20ppm max. I tested it several times the last few days out of curiosity, and its rock solid.


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## Twisted Melon (11 Feb 2018)

Spot on. Thanks peeps!!


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