# To MTS or Not?



## jameson_uk (1 Jun 2020)

I have been debating adding Malaysian Trumpet Snails to my tank but I am still unsure...

I have sand which is probably about 5cm deep.   One concern is about them out competing the current occupants.   I have some Nerites, Amanos and Otos which are the main concern but I also have pond snails and tiny ramshorns.   When I added the ramshorns this seems to have had quite a big impact on the pond snail population.

I have added a poll to gauge opinion (which I know doesn't show in Tapatalk so you might need to visit the web page to vote).


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## jaypeecee (1 Jun 2020)

For what specific reason are you considering adding Malaysian Trumpet Snails?

JPC


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## jameson_uk (1 Jun 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> For what specific reason are you considering adding Malaysian Trumpet Snails?
> 
> JPC


Mainly for cleanup of the substrate. Also have found a few bubbles when I have been attempting to clean some of the substrate so think about them just turning over the sand a little.


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## dw1305 (1 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 





jameson_uk said:


> Mainly for cleanup of the substrate.


I have them in all the tanks, they are just a useful addition.

cheers Darrel


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## Fiske (1 Jun 2020)

I like MTS, but if you have a plant carpet their digging behaviour might disturb it.


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## mort (1 Jun 2020)

I have them in my tanks as well and I hardly notice them tbh unless the lights are off. They form a nice balance with other more "decorative" species you have but I'm not that fussed what does the job, if the jobs getting done. The only thing I will say is that although they are easily controlled with a weighted piece of lettuce that you leave overnight, once they are in, they will always be in.


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## jameson_uk (1 Jun 2020)

So I am expecting to have to do a fair amount of manual removal as despite my beast efforts I am often guilty of overfeeding....
What are the chances of these out competing the main occupants for food?

Also will dwarf puffers eat them? (their shells look pretty tough)


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## Conort2 (1 Jun 2020)

jameson_uk said:


> So I am expecting to have to do a fair amount of manual removal as despite my beast efforts I am often guilty of overfeeding....
> What are the chances of these out competing the main occupants for food?
> 
> Also will dwarf puffers eat them? (their shells look pretty tough)


Dwarf puffers wait until the snails poke their heads out and then proceed to bite their faces off lol. This is ok if you only have a few snails but if you have a massive population it could cause water quality issues as most of the snail remains in the shell and is left to rot away.

cheers

Conor


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## Steve Buce (1 Jun 2020)

If you want some, give us a shout


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## mort (2 Jun 2020)

jameson_uk said:


> So I am expecting to have to do a fair amount of manual removal as despite my beast efforts I am often guilty of overfeeding....
> What are the chances of these out competing the main occupants for food?



They fill a slightly different niche to shrimp and ramshorns so it shouldn't be a problem. Shrimp and ramshorns could also potentially compete with each other but nature tends to find a balance and populations are controlled by available resources.


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## jameson_uk (19 Jul 2020)

So I added three about three weeks ago (Varying in size at about 15, 8 and 4 mm each).   They went in OK and I saw them scuttling off and starting bury themselves in the substrate but I haven't had sight of them since.
I have tried at lights on and at night but no sign....

Is it likely the MTS haven't survived or quite possible they are staying well out of sight?


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## dw1305 (19 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





jameson_uk said:


> quite possible they are staying well out of sight?


Almost certainly that one. 

cheers Darrel


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## mort (20 Jul 2020)

I agree, it's normal. You only tend to see a fraction of the ones you have so with only a trio it's not surprising they haven't shown themselves.

I've seen tanks with large infestations of mts that look bare until you add some food, then the substrate begins to boil and they all arise


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (20 Jul 2020)

Bear in mind that MTS are not hermaphrodite; they are separate male and female.

So if the three you’ve obtained were taken at random from a large 50:50 population, there‘s a 25% risk that you’ve added 3 males or 3 females (12.5% risk of all male, 12.5% risk of all female).


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## sparkyweasel (20 Jul 2020)

But they are pathenogenic, and many populations contain no males.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...hwater_snail_Melanoides_tuberculata_in_Israel


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## Dr Mike Oxgreen (20 Jul 2020)

Better hope not to get the “three males” option then!

To guarantee a breeding colony I’d want more than three.


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## alto (21 Jul 2020)

These are the cockroaches of the aquarium world

I was convinced to add these to an aquarium - they flourished (strange ...  as tap water is extremely soft and acidic)
Shut down tank for a move, cleaned and stored gravel, set up a tank with that gravel well over AO year later ..... imagine my surprise when the first signs of life are MTS    


(note I only added 3-4 MTS and made no attempt at sexing, I just wanted a few substrate dwellers)


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## Melll (21 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> These are the cockroaches of the aquarium world
> 
> I was convinced to add these to an aquarium - they flourished
> (note I only added 3-4 MTS and made no attempt at sexing, I just wanted a few substrate dwellers)



Agree with the cockroach comment, I also was advised to get a few.  I wish that I had not listened.


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## rebel (21 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> cleaned and stored gravel, set up a tank with that gravel well over AO year later ..... imagine my surprise when the first signs of life are MTS



I have heard of similar anecdotes with them surviving presumbly in egg form in dry substrate.


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## dw1305 (21 Jul 2020)

Hi all,





rebel said:


> I have heard of similar anecdotes with them surviving presumbly in egg form in dry substrate.


I'm pretty sure they are live-bearers, so it must be snails that have survived. I assume in their natural habitat they occur in seasonally wet areas and can survive extended periods of drought, buried in the substrate.

cheers Darrel


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## JoshP12 (22 Jul 2020)

I originally added them to my tank because I saw some bubbles coming from sand. After adding them and waiting a month or so, I no longer saw the bubbles come up from the sand 👍.

When I ripped out some plants, I had a decaying leaf almost sitting on the substrate and caught the MTS eating it. 

I like them!


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## shangman (22 Jul 2020)

I've been reading a lot about deep sand beds/ways to make the substrate in the aquarium a better 'natural filter', and all of the articles I've found consider adding MTS essential for churning the sand to help mulm get pulled under and create a more nutritious substrate for plants. I also added some california blackworms to also help with the job. I think because their focus for food is on the substrate they wouldn't compete much with the other occupants who like algae.

On the other hand, when I asked my local fish shop to buy some they said 'what, those pest snails???? sure you can have a few' which didn't inspire massive confidence! I added my 6 free ones anyway, here's hoping they're doing their job.


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## rebel (23 Jul 2020)

shangman said:


> I asked my local fish shop to buy some they said 'what, those pest snails????


Haha. I think they may have experienced pain at some point.


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## shangman (23 Jul 2020)

rebel said:


> Haha. I think they may have experienced pain at some point.


I imagine they keep their assassin snails very well fed!


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## mort (23 Jul 2020)

shangman said:


> On the other hand, when I asked my local fish shop to buy some they said 'what, those pest snails????



There was a lfs when I was growing up that had the most amazing substrate. From a distance it looked like a fluffy black carpet over brown shingle but on closer inspection it was just a mass of mts covered in black turf algae. It was a shop that had the healthiest stock by far in the area, I'm guessing by the snail population because every night was banquet night


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## X3NiTH (23 Jul 2020)

If they can get into your pipe work then I wouldn’t add them as they can kill flow if they congregate inside pipes. If they can’t get into your pipe work then I would add them, they’re exceptionally good at churning a substrate up.


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## JoshP12 (23 Jul 2020)

I know I sang their praises earlier, but I failed to mention that until stuff is rooted, they will dig it out - like a carpet. I'd still take 'em. 

They come out at night more too - and it looks like the creatures from the movie Tremors as they emerge at lights off.


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## shangman (24 Jul 2020)

JoshP12 said:


> I know I sang their praises earlier, but I failed to mention that until stuff is rooted, they will dig it out - like a carpet. I'd still take 'em.
> 
> They come out at night more too - and it looks like the creatures from the movie Tremors as they emerge at lights off.


hmm, I wonder if this is why one of my rotalas keeps coming unmoored! The roots do seem a bit rubbish on it


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## JoshP12 (24 Jul 2020)

shangman said:


> hmm, I wonder if this is why one of my rotalas keeps coming unmoored! The roots do seem a bit rubbish on it


 
Very likely. This morning 6 of my s. repens (with some baby roots) were floating .

Josh


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## maboleth (26 Jul 2020)

In my opinion, this is the most useful and best looking 'free' snail out there.

What's in there not to like?

- They are beautiful, trumpet-shaped and similar to Sulawesi brothers and sisters, but smaller. There are white and black ones. Both look stunning.
- There are no eggs.
- They eat decaying matter or dead fish.
- They eat diatoms and even green carpet algae (though they will eat other stuff before green carpet algae).
- They will NEVER eat live plants.
- They aerate the substrate and prevent calcification and forming of gases.
- Best free janitors out there.

What's really bad?

- Prolific breeding. Though this can be somewhat or totally controlled depending on the food source. It's easy as that. On the other hand, you can easily harvest them out when they attach themselves to the glass.

Personally? After 3 years, I had to add them _several_ times in my tank to actually see them. Adding CO2 and having pH =<7.0 seem to be controlling their population. I also feed my fish 1x per day and their food rarely falls to the ground.


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## maboleth (28 Jul 2020)

Here's another proof. I pulled up some MTS's and ramshorns for my father in law in a small bucket of water, like a half a litre. One biggish ramshorn died, I noticed it was clumped in its shell and didn't move.

In about 24h, the shell was empty.  MTS crew eat it before it contaminated the water. Water remained crystal clear with no odor.

So imagine similar thing happening in your tank too. You can't beat the cleaning crew of MTS, scavenging and making your tank in sync with natural forces.


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## NAJAS GUPPY (29 Jul 2020)

I love all commonly labelled "pest" snails. They make a great cleanup crew and something a bit different to watch in the tank.
Mines filled with ramshorns and tadpoles. Just ordered some M.T.S and mini rams from ebay myself.

Lost the last lot of m.t.s i had and never bothered restarting until now.
There pretty bullet proof but can't handle cooler waters long term from my experience (which shouldn't be a problem for yourself) aside from that they'd survive a nuclear bomb.

You can get pure black shelled M.T.S aswell which are a bit more appealing to the eyes.


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## jameson_uk (11 Mar 2021)

Just coming back to this after adding three (two were tiny) _black_ MTS in the middle of June last year.
Yesterday I fed one of those grazer blocks that you stick to the side of the tank and forgot to remove it 
This morning I thought the tank looked odd and noticed quite a gathering (and now I now how I can get them to group together so I can easily thin their population).

Rubbish picture but I was attempting to feed a small child at the same time





They do seem to have done a pretty good job of cleaning the substrate and the only plant they cause a bit o pain with is my Limnophila Sessiflora which occasionally gets uprooted.

These do seem to have out compete the bladder snails I had in there and I don't recall seeing any in some time.   The other odd impact is that they seem to have got my otos to come out more.   I am not sure if this is just coincidence or whether they have polished off the food the otos were grazing on.   The otos have spent the last three years largely hidden out of site and quite happy to hang out in one area of the tank.    Since adding the MTS they are out on the glass and a lot more visible.

Also here is one of the larger ones sunbathing on top of the frogbit (I have to admire their determination to climb the glass as they really aren't built for climbing)


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