# Bottom dwellers, carpets & a deep tank



## idris (3 Jan 2011)

Firstly, hi to everyone on the forum. My first thread, so be gentle 

I've got a 275L tank which will be getting filled fairly soon, but I want to have a plan before I start. It's 3'6" wide, 2'6" tall, and 12" from back to front. As it's relatively tall (and I don't initially want to go for the complexity and expense of CO2), I am aware I will probably be a little limited on plant choice. 

At the bottom / front of the tank I'd like a slow growing plant like a carpet (though I have nothing specific in mind yet), and as for fish at the bottom of the tank I'd lke Kuhlis and something similar to a small plec. But having read some of the guides on planted aquaria (including on this forum) I am not sure whether such fish will be compatible with carpet style planting.

Are Kuhlis and any small plec like fish worse at uprooting this sort of plants?


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## RudeDogg1 (3 Jan 2011)

bristle nosed plecs should be alright Kuhlis like to burrow so i dont know what they will be like


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## Burnleygaz (3 Jan 2011)

My Bn`s tend to uproot the odd plant now and again , stems and carpet`s being the worst affected , but its just because of the way they move about rather then a deliberate action


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## chrisfraser05 (3 Jan 2011)

I'm going through exactly this at the moment 

22" deep tank growing HC. My Bristle nose plec has been temp rehomed till everythings grown in.

My kuhlis are fine darting in and out of my caves so no issues there.

Its the corys are my biggest nightmare. They are trying to get to the root of the clumps of HC constantly and are ripping 25-30% of it out every day 

I'm on the verge of giving up and trying something else, HC is my fave though


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## RudeDogg1 (3 Jan 2011)

I really wanted a HC carpet but my lights just ain't powerful enough for it :0(


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## idris (3 Jan 2011)

Pardon my ignorance ... what is HC? My guess is Hemianthus callitrichoides?

Are Bristle Nose Plecs the same as Bristle Nose Catfish?

I've seen plastic tubes and babboo used for Kuhlis to hide in in LFS tanks. Presumably they'll burrow even if you provide something like this? And are there any substrates they're more or less likely to burrow in?


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## RudeDogg1 (4 Jan 2011)

That's exactly what HC is it needs very powerful lighting in a deep tank mines 22 inches deep and my t8 fighting don't cut it my HC all melted. 

If the bristle nosed catfish is a ancestrious catfish then yes it is a BN plec

Would of thought sand is the best for kuhlies


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## foxfish (4 Jan 2011)

Idris, welcome to the forum.
I am intrigued with your tank dimensions 42" long 30" high & 12" wide. I assume this is a custom made tank to fit a certain aperture?


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## idris (4 Jan 2011)

*RudeDogg1* What wattage / wave length lighting do you have? Other than Java Moss (which I'm concerned may be too fast growing) are there any other good carpet plants for a deep tank.
And when you say sand would be good for Kuhlis, good to discourage them digging or good for them to dig in? I'm thinking of a mix of small smooth gravel (which I already have from my last tank) and aquatic soil. I was going to steer clear of sand as I'd read it isn't particularly goood for a planted tank.

*foxfish* Yes, the tank was made to measure by ND Aquatics. The base is getting made seperately to match existing kitchen units. (Or it will be as soon as I figure out a few fine details.)


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## RudeDogg1 (4 Jan 2011)

It's 38w t8 think they r 36 or 40 inches long one is a dennerile (can't spell it) plant pro + 4500 kelvin I think it's kelvin prob the wrong word I don't know lol the other is a trocal. 

Sand for easy burrowing.

Personally I don't agree with u about sand many people have awesome planted sand tanks. Like gravel it's inert so unless u use it as a cap ontop of a soil type substrat there will be no nutrients in there.


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## foxfish (4 Jan 2011)

At least you already recognise that it will not be easy to grow carpet plants or in fact maintain them either! 
Some folk have managed to grow foreground plants without using a pressurised C02 system, there are plenty of post relating to low tech tanks on the forum but, I would not worry about any plants growing to fast.
Your tank sounds more suitable as a fish tank than a planted tank.
 I keep 6 Kuhlis in my tank & I even see them every now & then! Like virtually all bottom dwelling fish with barbels they much prefer a soft sandy substrate to root around in, that it what they do in their natural environment.
The only issue with sand is when the layer is to deep .
What type of filtration will you be using?


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## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2011)

You really need to look away from traditional carpet plants IMHO.  I've tried moss carpets in a nano and they just attracted all the detritus in the tank and needed to be taken out, washed and trimmed regularly.  I've grown Glosso and HC and they need not only decent light but good flow and CO2 down towards the substrate which will be trickier in your tank too.

I'd look at planting a large drift of a small crypt species such as parvo or it's hybrid willisi, pygmy chain swords or even dwarf anubias tied onto pieces or rock.  None of these will give you the carpet effect but might be better bets for the foreground in such and deep and narrow tank.


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## RudeDogg1 (4 Jan 2011)

Just curious why did you go so narrow? Mines either 16 or 18 and I still think it would be nicer bigger lol


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## foxfish (4 Jan 2011)

Rudedogg, check out post 8-9 on page one.


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## idris (4 Jan 2011)

Thanks for the input. (I thought this looked like a good forum!) Unfortunately it looks like the Grand Plan may need some adjusting (some of my ambitions are truely mad!) and I''m going to have to do a lot more research. Anyway, in no particular order ...

The tank is the size it is because extensive negotiations were necessary to secure tenancy rights for kitchen floor space.   I only managed to get dibbs on about 14" from the wall, the available wall is only a certain length (even after moving a light switch just to accomodate the tank) and the depth is about as long as my arm. "You can't always get what you want ..." M Jagger/ K Richards (1969)
As much as I love the look of the fully planted tanks, the aim is something between a "planted tank" and a "fish tank". There will be compromises, I know.

The filter is a Rena Filstar xP2, which should cope with 10%-20% more water than I'll have, even before sacrificing water for hard landscaping.
While we're at it, I've got 2 x 30W of T8 lighting - one Interpet Moonlight (blue) and one Interpet Tropical (which I was told is good for plants). 

CO2 is an option, but since the setup is costing me an arm and a leg, I thought I'd have a go without first. (A DIY system may be an early addition.)

It is poissible that the carpet could be 6"-8" higher up in the tank. (The design is complicated so just don't ask how  ) Would that help significantly? Either way I shall look into other foreground plants. 
*Ed Seeley* Are the plants you suggest low maintainence, or am I on a hiding to nothing?


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## Ed Seeley (4 Jan 2011)

idris said:
			
		

> *Ed Seeley* Are the plants you suggest low maintainence, or am I on a hiding to nothing?



The crypts and anubias certainly are, the chain swords slightly less so but far less maintenance than HC or Glosso.

As to the CO2 it would be good to have a pressurised set up.  I have tried DIY CO2 myself and found it was labour intensive and only worked well when supplemented with liquid CO2.  However you could just use liquid CO2 products on their own instead.

I wouldn't bother with a blue tube.  Just get as white a tube as possible - there's a sticky on here about tubes from a cheaper source and basically you need to look at Daylight tubes.  They're a lot cheaper than aquarium ones.  Get some good reflectors.  Have you bought the lighting?  If not look at getting T5 lighting - it's more efficient and with good reflectors good enough for almost any plant.


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## foxfish (4 Jan 2011)

There are ways & means to get some plants growing but generally speaking your tank is not the best design for a conventional arrangement. 
Ed has mentioned some good plants to revise on, plants that dont actually grow in a substrate like ferns & anubias can be fixed to wood & set at a higher level in the tank.
Ed also mentioned supplements, something like flourish nitrogen can be added to your water to help the plants grow but nothing really competes with adding C02 gas in a regulated way that can dissolve in the water.
Another benefit of using plants on wood might be that you can remove the wood to maintain your plants because getting to the bottom of your deep tank could be tricky!


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## ghostsword (4 Jan 2011)

I would also advise the use of wood and plants attached to it. You can grow much things on good, from moss, to anubias, to crypts, and there is an amazing thread on the forum where someone drilled into the wood and planted on it. 

Without CO2 it will be a struggle, but it can be done.


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