# Planted aquarium in rented property...



## kadoxu (10 Aug 2016)

Hi guys,

This is more about legal advice than anything else... lol

So I have a small issue... my landlord feels "that there is too much of a risk of damages" having a 20 Litre (5 gal) aquarium in the flat.

The thing is, I only remembered to ask after I set it up... I understand the concern... but I would be the one responsible for any damages caused by the aquarium.

I am aware of the usual "No Pets" clause... but what if it's just a planted aquarium?

There is one clause about decorations in the contract:
Obligations of the Tenant - Use of the property - "Not to decorate or make any alterations or additions to or in the property without the prior written consent of the landlord or the agent which will not be unreasonably withheld."

Will I really be breaching the apartment rental contract if I use it only for plants?


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## Tim Harrison (10 Aug 2016)

I very much doubt it...I don't think any definition of 'pets' is broad enough to include plants...otherwise no one in a similar situation would be able to keep pot plants either and that'd be just insane. 

As for the other clause that's probably to do with the structure and fabric of the building...I'm pretty sure a small glass container with water in it doesn't count.


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## Alex J (10 Aug 2016)

I agree with Tim, on both counts. personally i find it incredible that your landlord has said and that there is too much risk involved  sounds very, very petty.


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## kadoxu (10 Aug 2016)

Thanks guys.

I replied to the agency asking for them to tell me if the contract stops me from having it with plants only...



Tim Harrison said:


> no one in a similar situation would be able to keep pot plants either and that'd be just insane.


Exactly what I thought... an indoor plant with a 20L+ pot is easy to find... 



Alex J said:


> I agree with Tim, on both counts. personally i find it incredible that your landlord has said and that there is too much risk involved  sounds very, very petty.



Well, the communication is made through the letting agency, so I try not to accentuate wordings too much... I understand where he is coming from... but, in the end, I'd be responsible, he has insurance and they have enough deposit money to fix it if something happens...


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## zozo (10 Aug 2016)

Is a bucket of water to mob the floor allowed?  What if you knok that over.. You're insurance probably will cover the damage. I do not know about the UK but we are obliged to have only one insurance "legal liabilyty" we call it. That means if you cause any damage to someone elses property it's covered. Usualy this also includes water damage, lets say you're washing machine connection pops of the tap because it's wrongly installed or you indeed knok over a 20 litre bucket during window washing. 

Look in your insurance policy or ask the agency, in our case it also includes aquariums.. No pets policy, is usualy cats, dogs or anything else that smels can make noise, escape and cause trouble or niucanse for neighbours.. I do not believe a goldfish are on that list, (except roaring goeramies lol). I think any lawyer will roll over the floor laughing if you're land lord will sue you for that under the no pets policy. Next to that, there is a privacy issue, you're landlord actualy shouldn't even et the chance to find out you have an aquarium, and since they are rather quiete, you're neigbours wont notice either..


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## Andy Thurston (10 Aug 2016)

zozo said:


> Next to that, there is a privacy issue, you're landlord actualy shouldn't even et the chance to find out you have an aquarium, and since they are rather quiete, you're neigbours wont notice either..


Rental properties in the uk are usually subject to a periodic inspection although the do have to give written notice in advance


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## Worshiper (10 Aug 2016)

A couple of years ago I rented a flat in a Grade 2 listed building. The agency was really particular about the NO PETS rule.
I nonetheless kept a 24L tank . Every time the agency came over I covered it with a black cloth and a few laundry clothes so it was well hidden. Never got caught!

I was honest with my existing landlord but he was fascinated with it so let me keep it


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## zozo (10 Aug 2016)

Andy Thurston said:


> Rental properties in the uk are usually subject to a periodic inspection although the do have to give written notice in advance



Over here the same.. I guess that's normal if you're an owner and have stuff for rent... But as already said, not unanounced... And not in the cabinets and as worshipper says, not under the towels.. But c'mon, a fish is not a pet. I would realy haved asked, what risk he was pointing to with 20 litre of water, just to have a laugh.. 
I would have asked are you afraid my dog will knok it over?? Just to take'm by the nose..


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## Derek113 (10 Aug 2016)

In the UK im sure a fish tank comes under furniture. I could be wrong so dont take my word.

landlords can be difficult. My advice is get a council house ASAP!


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## Andy Thurston (10 Aug 2016)

Derek113 said:


> My advice is get a council house ASAP!


love to but single mums and druggies get bumped to the top of list.
I had a 350l corner tank in my last place which weighed approx 1/2 a ton, the floor joists bowed when i filled it. My landlord said it was fine for me to have a tank but i didn't tell him how big it was. if your worried about damage from leaks make sure that you ask your insurers if you are adequately covered


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## Aqua360 (10 Aug 2016)

Andy Thurston said:


> love to but single mums and druggies get bumped to the top of list.
> I had a 350l corner tank in my last place which weighed approx 1/2 a ton, the floor joists bowed when i filled it. My landlord said it was fine for me to have a tank but i didn't tell him how big it was. if your worried about damage from leaks make sure that you ask your insurers if you are adequately covered



Lol I can testify to this, I was always scared my Trigon 350 would leak or something!


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## zozo (10 Aug 2016)

It happened to me once in my life, 180 litres and back panel cracked open from top to bottom, for no obvious reason, darn tank stood fine for years. I felt nothing shaking only heard a zip and a splash.. But i can tell that's a lot of mopping next to the adrenaline.. Doesn't look so much in the tank, but on the floor is a different storry.


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## kadoxu (10 Aug 2016)

zozo said:


> No pets policy, is usualy cats, dogs or anything else that smels can make noise, escape and cause trouble or niucanse for neighbours.. I do not believe a goldfish are on that list, (except roaring goeramies lol). I think any lawyer will roll over the floor laughing if you're land lord will sue you for that under the no pets policy. Next to that, there is a privacy issue, you're landlord actualy shouldn't even et the chance to find out you have an aquarium, and since they are rather quiete, you're neigbours wont notice either..


My contract is a bit more specific than that. It says "Not to keep any animals or birds (whether domestic or otherwise)" (because birds are aliens)... and as Andy said:



Andy Thurston said:


> Rental properties in the uk are usually subject to a periodic inspection although the do have to give written notice in advance


Yup... every 6 months or even less I get a visit...



zozo said:


> I would have asked are you afraid my dog will knok it over??


Ahahahah!!



Derek113 said:


> My advice is get a council house ASAP!


I don't even qualify until the baby (on the way) is born... lol and then I would be at grade C, which rarely gets a house... like Andy (also) said, druggies and single moms have priority... 



Andy Thurston said:


> I had a 350l corner tank in my last place which weighed approx 1/2 a ton


I wish I had the space for one of those! 



The major thing here is I don't want to hide something I shouldn't have to... If they return to me saying there is no clause stopping me from having it with plants I'll be fine for a few months while I'm staring and learning plant stuff... and then I'll ask if I can add a handful of shrimp to my existing aquarium instead (it should be harder to refuse that).
If they say that there is indeed some kind of clause that stops me from having the aquarium with plants only, then I'll have to think about something else... worst case scenario I'll postpone the aquarium for a year until I move to a new place (baby on the way).

Thank you all!


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## zozo (10 Aug 2016)

i'm probably a little bit (too) frivolously and never even would have asked and just bought the tank and set it up.. Can't imagine that someone inspecting would be so silly to say that's not alowed and breach of contract. I would emidately point to the housefly in my trash bin and say please don't call the police. 

But if it doesn't have any livestock it's nothing more than i big square flower vase alias plantpot.  I also have lived with no pets (animals) rent contracts.. But this never even crossed my mind. That a landlord can be so nitpicky serious about it.. That you have to ask counseling to find out where you stand  with a fish..


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## Aqua360 (10 Aug 2016)

kadoxu said:


> My contract is a bit more specific than that. It says "Not to keep any animals or birds (whether domestic or otherwise)" (because birds are aliens)... and as Andy said:
> 
> 
> Yup... every 6 months or even less I get a visit...
> ...



Why not just not mention it? Worst case scenario, they tell you to remove it no?


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## zozo (11 Aug 2016)

I once red a story like that on a Dutch reptile forum, the guy had frogs, with a relative heavy light above the tank.. The constant heavy light burning 10 hours a day trigert an inspection.. The landlord called the police, because he thought the guy was growing ilegal substances. And then the police has to come and inspect. But they only found dart frogs instead. The landlord demanded the dart frogs to be removed, pointing to his no pets clause in the contract. The police said "That's something we do not mingle with, this is privacy right and take your own steps, for us there is nothing ilegal goin on in this appartment, so we are done, have a nice day.." The dart frog grower never heard of it again.
http://www.gifkikkerportaal.nl/Forum/tabid/96/aft/102919/Default.aspx

But that's another country.. Never the less a contract, but it doesn't seem to be so easy for a landlord to breach the contract because of a few silly frogs. A judge has to deside about that and not the landlord..And a judge will always look at a matter like this with some discreet judiciousness or equity (how do you say that?). A clause like that, is vallid to protect the privacy of the other inhabbitants of the complex.. As long this is not endangered the judge probably will deside that the landlords needs to "GET A LIFE"..


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## kadoxu (11 Aug 2016)

Aqua360 said:


> Why not just not mention it? Worst case scenario, they tell you to remove it no?


I don't want to go that way... I signed a contract willingly, so I must follow it.


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## Tim Harrison (11 Aug 2016)

Sure, don't forget that you are entitled to "quite enjoyment" of the property; it is your home when all said and done.
Either way I wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place; your tank is small enough to probably have been inconsequential anyway


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## Manisha (11 Aug 2016)

Hi Kadoxu, your scenario seems awful! If you are privately renting - usually you would have the option to renew your lease every 6-12 months but I'm sure there are other variations in agreements. I would get advice from a solicitor or at least the citizens advice bureau to find out where you stand legally and then perhaps have a sensible discussion with your landlord & see if you can come to a compromise ☺ As rubbish as it may be, if it was me, I'd be thinking a private landlord is under no obligation to allow me to renew my lease at the end of the given period so I would be careful and mindful of sticking to my agreement.

I do think for such a relatively small amount or water & little risk - your landlord is being completely anal! There is far worse that you could do!


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## kadoxu (11 Aug 2016)

Manisha said:


> Hi Kadoxu, your scenario seems awful! If you are privately renting - usually you would have the option to renew your lease every 6-12 months but I'm sure there are other variations in agreements. I would get advice from a solicitor or at least the citizens advice bureau to find out where you stand legally and then perhaps have a sensible discussion with your landlord & see if you can come to a compromise ☺ As rubbish as it may be, if it was me, I'd be thinking a private landlord is under no obligation to allow me to renew my lease at the end of the given period so I would be careful and mindful of sticking to my agreement.


I signed the renewal just a few days ago... that was when I remembered to ask about it... lol
Even if they go back with the renewal now or don't renew next year, there's a baby human on the way and I'll need a bigger place anyway!


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## MrHidley (11 Aug 2016)

I've rented for the past 3 years, i've never had a problem keeping aquariums even though both properties i've been in have had a no pets rule. They're generally considered ornaments/furniture rather than pets by most estate agents. Never covered them up, whenever the agent came round they always commented that we had nice fish tanks.

I also had an aquarium crack and drop 60 litres onto the floor but it didn't cause any lasting damage. This only broke because i put it on top of an IKEA cabinet that bowed under the weight.


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## Manisha (11 Aug 2016)

kadoxu said:


> I signed the renewal just a few days ago... that was when I remembered to ask about it... lol
> Even if they go back with the renewal now or don't renew next year, there's a baby human on the way and I'll need a bigger place anyway!



Congratulations ☺ ...baby humans tend to be messier than fish anyway... haha! ( Although it maybe I have just been particularly unlucky with my baby humans...!)


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## kadoxu (11 Aug 2016)

Manisha said:


> Congratulations ☺ ...baby humans tend to be messier than fish anyway... haha! ( Although it maybe I have just been particularly unlucky with my baby humans...!)


Thank you! I'm just hoping my landlord allows me to have one!


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## alto (11 Aug 2016)

Having lived the passive aggressive landlord experience for a year - which was exactly 364 days too long - MOVE!

It's unending
It's _creative_ in ways that I would never have thought possible
I finally requested in writing (legal requirement) that the LL not enter my area of the shared front entrance (& certainly not enter my private backdoor entrance)
- my door mat was removed & changed out  as the color was not quite what the LL would've chosen (I insisted upon its return)
- my flower containers were requested (in writing) to be removed as the flowers were not white (I refrained from changing out the blues & oranges)
- my curtains were not a suitable beige (I politely turned down the LL's offer of more suitable curtaining)
- my kid had (discrete) removable stickers on the window (this was placing my child in jeopardy as it could be guessed from the street which upper level room belonged to a child - we expanded the sticker arrangement  ) ... my kid was also not to run in the house, or play a musical instrument or ... you begin to get the idea I think

(it was essentially a semi detached with LL family on the other side - unfortunately the garden lacked a separating wall of any sort)

The LL had pretended to quiet, slightly anal calm upon viewing & signing the lease. 

Look into your tenant rights & decide where you want to go with this situation ... arguably such a small tank will release less water than other common house appliances & bath fittings.




kadoxu said:


> just hoping my landlord allows me to have one!


it may be requested that your child not make any audible sounds after/during certain hours ...


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## kadoxu (11 Aug 2016)

alto said:


> Having lived the passive aggressive landlord experience for a year - which was exactly 364 days too long - MOVE!
> 
> It's unending
> It's _creative_ in ways that I would never have thought possible
> ...



That sounds allot like my aunt's OCD... 

Well... it's been almost 2 years and I haven't had a single thing to complain about until now. And I'm renting through an agency that manages everything, so I've never even seen the landlord.

I would never rent a property knowing that the landlord or his/her family lived nearby... It's one of the first things I ask when visiting the properties for the first time! My contract states they can never visit without a written notice made at least 24 hours in advance.


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## Derek113 (11 Aug 2016)

You can ask your agent for a direct contact number fir the home owner. Ask the owner directly?

This is your legal right as a tennant by the way.


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## Tim Harrison (11 Aug 2016)

Whenever I've rented it's been a bit of a mare too...except for one instance when the old dear landlady couldn't do enough for us, she was great

In one case we rented whilst waiting for our house to be built...anyway it got to loggerheads with the agency and landlord when we refused them access to allow future tenants to invade our privacy to view the property.

They were not amused...we in turn felt violated

They threatened me with all sorts of court actions, but I reminded them of the right to "quiet enjoyment" of the property and there wasn't a thing they could do about it, especially as it was winter and the blessed boiler was on the blink leaving us without heating and hot water for extended periods...bar stewards

I subscribe to the philosophy that an Englishman's home is his castle...and as far as I'm concerned that analogy extends to all nationalities as well, just in case your wondering

This agency also tried to steal our deposit on the grounds that 2 weeks after we had left there was dust on the skirting board...I wished them good luck and referred them to the company lawyers of the multi-national company who had stumped up the deposit cash and who were paying the rent.

The deposit was refunded the next day...double bar stewards


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## Derek113 (11 Aug 2016)

Tim Harrison said:


> Whenever I've rented it's been a bit of a mare too...except for one instance when the old dear landlady couldn't do enough for us, she was great
> 
> In one case we rented whilst waiting for our house to be built...anyway it got to loggerheads with the agency and landlord when we refused them access to allow future tenants to invade our privacy to view the property.
> 
> ...




I thought deposits were kept by a third party?


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## aaron.c (11 Aug 2016)

Yes they should be stored in a protection scheme 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison (11 Aug 2016)

They did, but that didn't stop them from trying it on...if they think they can bully tenants into giving up the deposit, they often will.
I've even heard of landlords ignoring the law and simply pocketing the deposit

I had a similar experience before the so called protection scheme, when I was a student. I had to threaten the agency with legal action to get my deposit back...

It used to be accepted, almost as a matter of course, that you'd loose your deposit due to the spurious nonsense of ongoing repairs and wear and tear incurred during your occupancy; of course that's not what a deposit was for...but often tenants had no recourse.

My unfortunate opinion, is that most landlords are unscrupulous bar stewards, even today and with the so called checks and measures that are in place due to recent legislation...


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## PARAGUAY (11 Aug 2016)

Just leave the tank make sure everything is pristine for your 6 month check,have it looking great on the day probably nothing will be said. Its little known tenants have huge rights in disputes get to know  local councillor beforehand


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## rebel (12 Aug 2016)

If you are not going to have livestock, just drain it 90% on the day of inspection.


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## kadoxu (30 Aug 2016)

So, last Thursday I got contents insurance to cover me in case something bad happens and then started to set the aquarium up and put everything running.
On Friday I got all the plants delivered (you can see my beginner journal here) and today... today I got a visit from the agency.

I made sure the aquarium lights were on so I could get a reaction...  As soon as she entered the living room, I noticed her looking to the aquarium, but there was not a single word about it!

So I'm quite happy now... let's wait and see if there is some kind of report about it.


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