# Need help setting up a low-tech shrimp only nano tank



## MandrakePOE (20 May 2010)

Hi All,

I am looking to set up my first planted tank.  As it is a somewhat new venture I would ideally like to keep it relatively low tech (no CO2 or fertilisers) and will be stocking it  exclusively with Red Cherry Shrimp, which I understand to be one of the more hardy varieties.

I have done a lot of research on the various elements utilising this and other sites and now have a fair idea of what I want to achieve but still need some help to tie it all in together. 

Here is my [planned] setup so far....

*Tank:* Arcadia Arc 35 Litre tank _(Already bought)_






*Filter* - Classica Powerbio200 _(Standard with tank)_
http://www.classica-aqua.com/product.ph ... &sub=&id=5
This came as standard with the tank. It is a nice little unit with a spray bar however at 200 Litres/Hour Max it might be a little underpowered  for a 35L, what do you think?  Is so can anyone suggest an alternative internal filter, that isn't going to take up too much room in this tank?

*Lights* - Arcadia Arc Pod 11W _(standard with tank)_
http://www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php? ... &sub=&id=4
Seems like a quite decent stylish light setup but will it support the type of plants I am looking at growing (see below) ?

*Heater* - Aquael Neoheater 75W (under consideration)
https://sklep.aquael.pl/webapp/wcs/stor ... y_rn=14409
Review: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10021&hilit=filter+nano
Really like the look of this low profile heater and at 16.5cm I won't take much room up in the tank, would look good alongside the current filter too.  Looking at the 75W but they also do a 50W and 100W which might be more suitable.

*Plants * Hemianthus callitrichoides (HC / Cuba). I have seen some conflicting reports about how hard it is to grow this plant.  I would love to carpet the tank with this if possible but not sure my outlined setup is up to it.
+
Echinodorus tenellus (Pygmy Chain Sword) and/or Elocharis acicularis (Dwarf Hairgrass) in a few tufts around the hardscape.
+
Java Moss (Vesicularia dubyana) or similar attached to some hardscape (probably  redmoor wood)

*Substrate* - The only thing I'm sure about is the colour, which will be black as the contrast will help bring out the colour in the shrimp.
I hear good things about ADA Aquasoil but what others would you recommend that are readily available in the UK,bearing in mind the plants and low tech approach I am going for? 

*Inhabitants* - 8-12 Red Cherry Shrimp
Found a decent LFS who stocks them so when the tank is set up and cycled won't have to put the shrimps through shipping!  Keeping the number low initially to see how I get on, long term I am not looking to breed them though, though it would be nice to have some small fry in the tank at some point.

So how does my plan sounds? 

What bits would you change in order to make it more viable for a beginner such as myself?

Thanks,

Joe


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## ceg4048 (20 May 2010)

Hi,
    Welcome to the forum!  

Typically, no CO2 or fertilisers = no Hemianthus callitrichoides

Cheers,


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## Kosh42-EFG (20 May 2010)

As above... I think HC is considered a touch plant, so doubt it would do well without CO2 and ferts... I have HC for an emersed project I am setting up, but wouldn't consider it in my low tech tank...

Rest of the setup sounds good, though...


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## dw1305 (20 May 2010)

Hi all,
I'd probably just go for more moss, rather than a traditional carpet. You could always use planted stainless steel mesh to give  carpet effect. Mosses are pretty tolerant of low fertility - low CO2 as well.

I've found that (Xmas moss particularly) fastens and grows very well on coconut shells, even if you don't want obvious shell in your tank, you can smash up a coconut shell and fasten a small tuft of moss to each fragment (with silicon or super glue). Works really well and is a very cheap option. 

Shrimps love moss, they spend all day happily picking away at algae, diatoms etc.. They only think that shrimps like more than moss is a slightly grubby filter sponge, which might not be quite the look you are looking for. A filter that would be an alternative is the "Eheim aquaball 45/60", it comes with a spray bar and you can extend the filter compartment if you need to.

PM if you want a "moss starter pack", when it gets going it really grows well, and it's now starting to poke out of the surface of the shrimp tank.


cheers Darrel


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## Garuf (20 May 2010)

You don't even have to attach the moss, it can be planted like a "traditional" plant, see Faao aquascape's site for proof.


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## mr. luke (21 May 2010)

As long as you dont have a really compact carpet i agree with garuf, if its dense like pool filter sand it will dieat the bottom and float off   
How about a marimo carpet? Low tech as you can get


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## dw1305 (21 May 2010)

Hi all,


> As long as you don't have a really compact carpet i agree with garuf, if its dense like pool filter sand it will die at the bottom and float off. How about a marimo carpet? Low tech as you can get


 Good thinking from MrLuke, I have sand as a substrate, but I'm sure if you used Akadama or similar the moss will attach to it quite happily. I like the Marimo balls (_Cladophora_) idea as well, and shrimps possibly prefer them to even to moss. You could build a lovely look, an aquatic version of the moss carpets in Japanese gardens. I've seen _Leucobryum_ carpets in N. Wales, where the moss clothes all the rocks and tree roots under the oaks, in great mounds and pillows, and even forms detached "marimo ball" spheres, a lot bigger but with a lovely silvery sheen.
http://home.clara.net/adhale/bryos/woodland.htm.

_Lecobryum glaucum_




I wonder if there is a aquatic mounded moss? must be one somewhere.

cheers Darrel


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## bigmatt (21 May 2010)

Cut down moss ball?  I'm thinking of trying this in one of Garuf's Acrylic cubes.  Probably do a bulk ebay order for 15 or so, then a bit of delicate work with a scalpel, some superglue and some pebbles, maybe even a "Mossagumi"!  
I might have to apply a leetle bit of cunning and make a lumpy moss wall for the back...
as far as the lights go, just got a couple of Superfish lights from Alan (bogwood) and they're beauties.  If you're thinking about upgrading the filter a small external can be picked up pretty cheaply secondhand, nad will make your tank look much nicer as it will have less kit sitting in it.  
Hope this helps!
Matt


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## MandrakePOE (24 May 2010)

Many thanks to all those who have replied and apologies for the delay in my response.

Really keen on a HC carpet so will be looking to compromise my original low tech approach and dose with Flourish Excel.

So do you do think a nutrient rich substrate like ADA Aquasoil combined with daily (or everyother day) Flourish Excel dosing (no overdosing due to Shrimp) will provide a HC friendly environment?

Also.......

LightingÂ 
Is the Arcadia Arc Pod 11w going to provide enough light for a HC carpet or is it going to simply try and grow up to find more light?
Another identical unit is a feasable option but would mean removing the glass top and leaving the tank uncovered.

Filter
Still not sure if the stock one is enough at 200lh, I have read for a 35l. Â I should be looking at around 350lh.Â 
Have looked at the Eheim Aquaball series, which has great features but takes up a alot of room in a tank my size. Ideally want something slimlined and black and unfortunately it does need to be internal.

Decor
Trying to find a suitable piece of redmoor root but no joy so far.Â 
Does anyone know any other Uk based online stores that stock it other than aqua essentials and greenmachine?

Cheers,

Joe


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## MandrakePOE (26 May 2010)

> Really keen on a HC carpet so will be looking to compromise my original low tech approach and dose with Flourish Excel.
> 
> So do you do think a nutrient rich substrate like ADA Aquasoil combined with daily (or everyother day) Flourish Excel dosing of flourish Excel (no overdosing due to Shrimp) will provide a HC friendly environment?



Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## NeilW (26 May 2010)

If you religiously dose liquid carbon combined with Aquasoil then you can happily grow HC.  You'll need a beefier light then 11watts over 35 litres to keep it compact though.


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## LondonDragon (26 May 2010)

Have a look at my shrimp tank journal in my signature


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## MandrakePOE (26 May 2010)

NeilW said:
			
		

> If you religiously dose liquid carbon combined with Aquasoil then you can happily grow HC.  You'll need a beefier light then 11watts over 35 litres to keep it compact though.




Thanks for the confirmation.  How much more beefier should I go?

Would getting another Arcadia Arc Pod 11watts be sufficient providing a total of 22 watts (2.4wpg)?


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## NeilW (27 May 2010)

MandrakePOE said:
			
		

> Thanks for the confirmation.  How much more beefier should I go?
> 
> Would getting another Arcadia Arc Pod 11watts be sufficient providing a total of 22 watts (2.4wpg)?



I think a second Arc Pod would work but I'm not a lighting expert, stick a post on the 'lighting' section of the forum and I'm sure you'll get a better suggestion based on the size of your tank and dosing from other peoples experiences


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## bigmatt (27 May 2010)

George Farmer recommends 1 watt per litre to grow demanding plants in a nano.  Two superfish 18w units would do it, and they're presently on offer at plantedbox.com about Â£30 each.  I've got a couple of these and they are very good looking lights
Cheers
Matt


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## MandrakePOE (31 May 2010)

following an expensive weekend of online orders here is a little update....

*Lights*
I decided to get another Arcadia Arc Pod 11w light in the end, appreciate there are bigger and better lights out there but didn't want to waste the one I had so for an extra Â£25 I doubled up, hopefully should give another light for my plans.

*Substrate*
Greenmachine still out of ADA Amazonia I so opted for ADA Amazonia II.  Have read alot of conflicting reports about the different behaviour and experiences of the two so will interesting to to see how it goes for me!

*Filter*
After much debate I have stuck with the default Classica 200lh, anything with a bigger output just looks too big in a tank this size although I am concerned that the cycling time may increase.  Also my LFS has indicated that if I increased the flow then I am probably just going to reduce the CO2, has anyone confirm this?

Hope to start setting up later this week, pics to follow!


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## NeilW (31 May 2010)

MandrakePOE said:
			
		

> *Filter*...Also my LFS has indicated that if I increased the flow then I am probably just going to reduce the CO2, has anyone confirm this?


You'll only lose excessive CO2 from surface agitation; some higher tech setups have to purposely create surface movement at night despite having huge amounts of flow to gas off excess CO2 for the fish so I'm afraid your LFS is wrong on this one.  I'm not sure how they got hold of this idea, maybe in their tank the flow was directed at the water surface, or they had a spraybar on their filter and then went to equate this with flow .  Of course CO2 will eventually disappear even with no flow (e.g. a bottle of Coke)   

However, if your using liquid carbon then it behaves differently to gas (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so won't and disappear from surface movement into atmosphere.  

Basically what I'm trying to say is high flow does not necessarily mean a loss in carbon (wether using gas or liquid)

Lots of flow is no bad thing as it will help move your liquid carbon around the tank and gives you more margin for error with your dosing.  I use an Eheim Ecco 130 which is rated at 500 lph in a 17 litre tank!  Remember the manufacturers spec is over rated too and then the flow would be reduced even more from various media, glassware etc. etc.  

With your tank you've changed the goal posts slightly as your now using liquid carbon which changes this from being a low-tech setup.  This means that you'll need more flow to move the carbon around your HC.  If it was me I'd use a larger filter (at least 10x turnover).

Hope thats helpful,
Neil


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