# Praziquintrel



## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Hi all i have a 60 litre aqurium and keep loosing fish the latest my saffron tailed female guppy. The zebra danios keep on Gill flicking and i have had losses with my neon tetras they seem to have developed wierd lumps and bumps on there bodies.

With the latest loss a pregnant female guppy she seemed alright on minute and then she just lost interest.

On examination she looks as though she had hemoraged internally.

I have been using fluke solve (praziquintrel) to absolutely no avail.

Can someone recommend a medication that will actually work i have a few snail's in the tank Wich could be removed so copper based meds are not out of the question but i would prefer an invert friendly option.Oh the female guppy that has just passed did not show any sighns of Gill flicking or anything else for that matter.

Hoping someone out there can help me and my fish.

Kind regards Martin Steele


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## Melll (15 Jul 2020)

Hi Martin,

What is your water change regime, and your filter clean routine?


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Hi it's 25% weekly and about once a month i drop the filter Melll.


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## Melll (15 Jul 2020)

Okay, do you know the water parameters?

Do you replace the filter media once a month or clean it once a month?  what filter is it?


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

It's a sun sun and i take out the sponges x3 and wash them in some aqurium water.

Regards Martin Steele


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Water perameters are pH is 6.16 but i have just tested for TDS and got a reading of 760 ppm how the hell did it get so high. I will be back in a bit with individual gh kh reading. I add a little karswasser to my water change along with bicarb but i literally have no idea where that read has come from could it be fluke solve?????.


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## Melll (15 Jul 2020)

Hi there,

Can you also test for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?


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## hypnogogia (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> karswasser


What’s that?
Your pH is quite low.  Any idea why that might be the case?


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## REDSTEVEO (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Hi all i have a 60 litre aqurium and keep loosing fish the latest my saffron tailed female guppy. The zebra danios keep on Gill flicking and i have had losses with my neon tetras they seem to have developed wierd lumps and bumps on there bodies.
> 
> With the latest loss a pregnant female guppy she seemed alright on minute and then she just lost interest.
> 
> ...



Contact Mark Neil at Discus Studio Scotland. He stocks all the latest scientific medications from Manaus Aquarium Products Ltd in Germany. The latest of these is a product called Excosal. A general application for undiagnosed or unspecified fish ailments. I know people who have used to excellent effect on all their fish. Click on the link below to go to his website.
https://discus-studio.com/


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## REDSTEVEO (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Water perameters are pH is 6.16 but i have just tested for TDS and got a reading of 760 ppm how the hell did it get so high. I will be back in a bit with individual gh kh reading. I add a little karswasser to my water change along with bicarb but i literally have no idea where that read has come from could it be fluke solve?????.



Yes could be the Fluke Solve, which clearly is not working. If I were you I would start doing 50% water changes for the next five days to remove all trace of the meds you have been using, this should also reduce your TDS by at least half.

What is the TDS reading of your tap water?


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## REDSTEVEO (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Water perameters are pH is 6.16 but i have just tested for TDS and got a reading of 760 ppm how the hell did it get so high. I will be back in a bit with individual gh kh reading. I add a little karswasser to my water change along with bicarb but i literally have no idea where that read has come from could it be fluke solve?????.


Do you filter your water through a HMA (Heavy metal axe) filter


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## zozo (15 Jul 2020)

Or contact Dr Fiona Mcdonald

https://www.fish-treatment.co.uk/help-information/fluke-solve/

She developed Fluke Solve with here team...  In my case, she replied personally and she kept asking questions to get to me situation was extremely helpful in the end...

dr Fiona!! 😍 I love you... Tralalalal.. 😍😍💪


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## REDSTEVEO (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Hi all i have a 60 litre aqurium and keep loosing fish the latest my saffron tailed female guppy. The zebra danios keep on Gill flicking and i have had losses with my neon tetras they seem to have developed wierd lumps and bumps on there bodies.
> 
> With the latest loss a pregnant female guppy she seemed alright on minute and then she just lost interest.
> 
> ...



Flubendazole is an alternative option to Praziquantel


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## sparkyweasel (15 Jul 2020)

Full details of your tank and inhabitants would be useful.
It sounds as if you have three different health problems with your various fish species; that suggests a problem with the tank overall, leaving the fish susceptible to various diseases. Hence @Melll asking about maintenance, and @REDSTEVEO suggesting a medication for various unidentified diseases.
In your situation, I would order the meds immediately, then do a large water change.
Then post some more information here, with pics if possible.
Repeat the water change daily until the meds arrive, and check for responses to your extra details here.


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Water perameters are pH is 6.16 but i have just tested for TDS and got a reading of 760 ppm how the hell did it get so high. I will be back in a bit with individual gh kh reading. I add a little karswasser to my water change along with bicarb but i literally have no idea where that read has come from could it be fluke solve?????.


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Hi Melll im not to sure how to use this site but here goes.

Yes i can test for ammonia nitrate and nitrite.I will run tests and get back to you.

This afternoon i used my TDS metre and got a reading of 670 ppm.

Then i told you i would do individual gh kh reading.

Isn't it always the way when you have a problem difficult to solve another bloody problem comes up to bite you on the ass.

Using my API test kit i cannot get a kh reading 
on the water in question.Nothing zilch zero,i have run a test on my main tank water and came up with 3 degrees of karbonet hardness but i can't understand why i am not getting a read from my 60 litre.It didn't even turn another colour so what's happening when i know i have added bicarb to my water change.Another issue i need to clarify is the gh this is coming in at 7 degrees wich corriilates to a little under 140 ppm.Yet after a 50 % water change this afternoon my TDS metre tells me that there is 420 ppm.Could this be organic waste in the water im confused to say the least.

Regards Martin Steele


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Hi red stevo.

I am trying to remember all the comments raised in this conversation as i don't know how to reply to them on a case by case basis.I will get in touch with the guy in Scot land thank you for the lead.My tds reading of tap water is 70 /80 ppm. The water round here is quite soft.


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## Martin steele (15 Jul 2020)

Hi sparkweasel thanks for your reply and will send a detailed list of tank and inhabitants to morrow.

Regards Martin Steele


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## sparkyweasel (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> .Another issue i need to clarify is the gh this is coming in at 7 degrees wich corriilates to a little under 140 ppm.Yet after a 50 % water change this afternoon my TDS metre tells me that there is 420 ppm.Could this be organic waste in the water im confused to say the least.


Yes, it could. TDS is _total _dissolved solids, so it includes hardness and carbonate/bicarbonate, but also everything else, organic waste from fish and plants, decomposing uneaten food, fertiliser meds, and anything else in there. If it's increasing more than you expect from what you're adding it's probably due to waste build-up and suggests you need more or bigger water changes.


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## sparkyweasel (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> i don't know how to reply to them on a case by case basis.


If you highlight a section of a post* a little box appears marked "quote". Click on that and your reply will start with that section - like this reply does.
* Drag your mouse pointer across it if you're on a PC. Not sure how you do it on a smartphone, can some-one advise?


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## sparkyweasel (16 Jul 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> Not sure how you do it on a smartphone, can some-one advise?


Touch, pause then swipe.


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

REDSTEVEO said:


> Do you filter your water through a HMA (Heavy metal axe) filter


Hi no i don't i let it sit in open air for a day or two.


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> Yes, it could. TDS is _total _dissolved solids, so it includes hardness and carbonate/bicarbonate, but also everything else, organic waste from fish and plants, decomposing uneaten food, fertiliser meds, and anything else in there. If it's increasing more than you expect from what you're adding it's probably due to waste build-up and suggests you need more or bigger water changes.


Thanks for this sparkweasel now i understand why my reading was high.All i have to do now is explain why my kh read is none existent.


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

Melll said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Can you also test for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate


Hi Melll herewith the readings for ammonia Wich is glad to say zero.

The nitrite is very small i will let you judge as a find these kind of kits very hard.

And the nitrate is considerably higher as i have been feeding with ei nutes hoping this helps regards Martin


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## Melll (16 Jul 2020)

Good afternoon Martin 

It looks to me as though you do have Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates showing.  Time to roll those sleeves up and start the partial water changes. 

Can I ask why you leave your tap water out for a couple of days to stand before use?   Do you use a de-chlorinator?


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> Full details of your tank and inhabitants would be useful.
> It sounds as if you have three different health problems with your various fish species; that suggests a problem with the tank overall, leaving the fish susceptible to various diseases. Hence @Melll asking about maintenance, and @REDSTEVEO suggesting a medication for various unidentified diseases.
> In your situation, I would order the meds immediately, then do a large water change.
> Then post some more information here, with pics if possible.
> Repeat the water change daily until the meds arrive, and check for responses to your extra details here.


Hi sparkweasel,

I have 7 zebra danios,7or 8 baby guppies 7 neon tetras currently in the hospital tank. One male guppy sex pest i am wondering if he was responsible for his lovers death. And up to this week about 350 ramshorn snail's Wich breed like crazy.And have been moved out to the goldfish tank.

Filtration is with a sun sun power filter Wich had been retrofitted with a booster pump to aid overall performance.And at the opposite end of the tank is a small internal filter Wich aids circulation and oxygen.

I use ei nutes daily and have a co2 system at about 1 BP's. The lighting is by 2 LED lights that are quite good.

At the moment the plants look quite messy because i have had baby guppies in there so they look horrible at the moment. If you need to know anything else please let me know.

Regards Martin Steele

Oh i will post this then post you a picture.


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

Melll said:


> Good afternoon Martin
> 
> It looks to me as though you do have Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates showing.  Time to roll those sleeves up and start the partial water changes.
> 
> Can I ask why you leave your tap water out for a couple of days to stand before use?   Do you use a de-chlorinator?


You Hi Melll there is no ammonia showing on the kit i used however there is a tiny 
Amount of nitrite and a significant amount of nitrate.I leave my water to stand to allow the chlorene to dispell ?? Am i wrong in doing this, and yes i do have declorinator but don't use it am i wrong again.

Best regards Martin Steele

PS the nitrates are because of ei nutes.


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## Melll (16 Jul 2020)

Hi Martin,

The majority of tap water contains Chloramine which does not or takes a long time to disperse, de-chlorinator is a must, that means you can use tap water straight the way.  A lot of de-chlorinators also sort out heavy metals within the water.   Any amount of Nitrite or Ammonia means you need to do partial water changes as both are toxic.


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## REDSTEVEO (16 Jul 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> What’s that?
> Your pH is quite low.  Any idea why that might be the case?


For some reason I think he means Kalkwasser, which is usually dropped into Marine Tanks to boost the calcium levels and keep the hardness up. Although why anybody would add Kalkwasser to a fresh water aquarium I'll never know.


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## REDSTEVEO (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Thanks for this sparkweasel now i understand why my reading was high.All i have to do now is explain why my kh read is none existent.



Personally I would not use the API test kit for measuring anything at all. The results are inconsistent to say the least. If you are adding Kalkwasser, (not Karwasser) there is no way you GH and KH could be as low as the readings are giving you.


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## dw1305 (16 Jul 2020)

Hi all,





sparkyweasel said:


> TDS is _total _dissolved solids, so it includes hardness and carbonate/bicarbonate, but also everything else, organic waste from fish and plants, decomposing uneaten food, fertiliser meds, and anything else in there.


It does, the meter is only <"reading the ions in the water">, so it won't include all the organic waste etc. 





Martin steele said:


> This afternoon i used my TDS metre and got a reading of 670 ppm.


That is about 1000 microS (1 millisiemen) and that is a lot of salts.





sparkyweasel said:


> suggests you need more or bigger water changes.


Same for me.





Martin steele said:


> along with bicarb


Is it sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3)? If it is I'd swap it for potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), sodium isn't good for planted tanks.  Have a look at DIY remineralising <"James' Planted Tank">





Martin steele said:


> I add a little kalkwasser to my water change


OK, that might be the cause of a lot of the conductivity rise.





REDSTEVEO said:


> Although why anybody would add Kalkwasser to a fresh water aquarium I'll never know.





Martin steele said:


> All i have to do now is explain why my kh read is none existent.





REDSTEVEO said:


> Personally I would not use the API test kit for measuring anything at all. The results are inconsistent to say the least. If you are adding Kalkwasser, (not Karwasser) there is no way you GH and KH could be as low as the readings are giving you.


Yes, other than snails freshwater tank inhabitants don't deplete the calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in tank, and the amount of Ca++ and HCO3- ions that remains in solution is dependent upon the <"carbonate~ CO2 equilibrium">. If use <"elevated CO2 levels to dissolve"> aragonite etc in a calcium reactor? Then when you add it to the tank you will get precipitation of the "spare" CaCO3 and that will then buffer the water to pH 8, ~650 microS and about 17dKH.

You should have <"similar dGH/dKH values">.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

Melll said:


> The majority of tap water contains Chloramine which does not or takes a long time to disperse, de-chlorinator is a must, that means you can use tap water straight the way. A lot of de-chlorinators also sort out heavy metals within the water. Any amount of Nitrite or Ammonia means you need to do partial water changes


Hi i have checked with sww there is no chloramine in our water supply.However there is no ammonia on my test and almost insignificant nitrite.Although the nitrate is quite high.

Regards and thanks again

Martin Steele


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,It does, the meter is only <"reading the ions in the water">, so it won't include all the organic waste etc. That is about 1000 microS (1 millisiemen) and that is a lot of salts.Same for me.Is it sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3)? If it is I'd swap it for potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3), sodium isn't good for planted tanks.  Have a look at DIY remineralising <"James' Planted Tank">OK, that might be the cause of a lot of the conductivity rise.Yes, other than snails freshwater tank inhabitants don't deplete the calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in tank, and the amount of Ca++ and HCO3- ions that remains in solution is dependent upon the <"carbonate~ CO2 equilibrium">. If use <"elevated CO2 levels to dissolve"> aragonite etc in a calcium reactor? Then when you add it to the tank you will get precipitation of the "spare" CaCO3 and that will then buffer the water to pH 8, ~650 microS and about 17dKH.
> 
> You should have <"similar dGH/dKH values">.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hi Darryl what does all that mean in English.

Regards Martin


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## Martin steele (16 Jul 2020)

sparkyweasel said:


> Touch, pause then swipe.


Hi sparkweasel,

Attached are the picks of my 60 litre tank.

I hope they are useful.


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## dw1305 (16 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





Martin steele said:


> Hi Darryl what does all that mean in English.



Your test kit doesn't work.
You need to change some more water.
Adding kalkwasser and/or sodium bicarbonate, isn't helping.
cheers Darrel


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## Sarpijk (16 Jul 2020)

Hi, what other decorations do you keep in the tank? Any sea shells?


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## Melll (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Hi i have checked with sww there is no chloramine in our water supply.However there is no ammonia on my test and almost insignificant nitrite.Although the nitrate is quite high.
> 
> Regards and thanks again
> 
> Martin Steele



Hi Martin,  I still believe you need to increase your water change % or frequency or both.  It certainly will not harm and may do wonders


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## sparkyweasel (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> And up to this week about 350 ramshorn snail's Wich breed like crazy.


A large and growing snail population usually suggests overfeeding the fish. The snails feast on the uneaten fishfood and they breed much faster than old age kills them. They are useful for clearing up a tiny bit of uneaten food, but you only get a few snails if the left-overs are minimal. Although that food is eaten, which is better than having it rot away, it comes out as snail poop so it still contributes to the waste build-up. So you need to minimise the amount that the fish don't eat.


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## sparkyweasel (16 Jul 2020)

Martin steele said:


> Attached are the picks of my 60 litre tank.
> 
> I hope they are useful.


Useful, in that I can't see anything bad. 
Sometimes when you see the whole tank you spot something obvious that you never even thought to ask about.


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## dw1305 (17 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





sparkyweasel said:


> Useful, in that I can't see anything bad.


Same for me. 

Your Ramshorn snail shells <"look healthy"> so you definitely have some dKH.

cheers Darrel


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## Martin steele (23 Jul 2020)

dw1305 said:


> sodium bicarbonate


Hi thanks for this i will buy some pottasium bicarb soon.


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## Martin steele (23 Jul 2020)

Sarpijk said:


> decorations


Hi sarpijk i have some cuttlefish bone in there.


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## Martin steele (24 Jul 2020)

Hi all this is just another one of my victims.I have done water changes and ordered meds from the discus studio.I still can't figure out why my guppies are dying like this they are ok on minute and then they die it's particularly distressing when you have raised them from tiny babies only to have there lives cut short at this young age.I think i need to look for another hobby,im not sure i can handle much more of this.

Regards Martin Steele


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