# Pre-order acrylic 12" cubes for sale



## Garuf (19 Apr 2010)

Hello everyone, 
I've been hunting about lately for some acrylic cubes I've found a couple of sellers who'd be prepared to make them as a batch to order. As of yet I have no prices (other than on single units) but since I'd be selling those I have spare what would you be prepared to pay? 

You'd be getting a fire-polished acrylic 12' cube and delivery in 6mm crystal acrylic. So far the best I've got with delivery is Â£55 which I understand is a lot. If the numbers where right I'm sure I can get it much lower, I'd contacted one seller who wanted me to order a minimum of 30! 

Anyone got anyone suppliers I should contact? I feel like I've spoken to them all!

_****Edit- I've changed the title to suit the post better- Looking for people to "go in with" so to speak on a bulk order of 12" cubes. Prices to be confirmed once all interest is assessed. Thank you_


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## NeilW (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*

Just thought of an idea.  I work in Paperchase who use acrylic cubes in their shop fittings.  Could you reinforce something like this with aquarium silicone?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/250-MM-5-SIDE...ultDomain_3?hash=item20abde7d63#ht_669wt_1167
Â£16.50


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## chump54 (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> I've been hunting about lately for some acrylic cubes I've found a couple of sellers who'd be prepared to make them as a batch to order. As of yet I have no prices (other than on single units) but since I'd be selling those I have spare what would you be prepared to pay?
> 
> You'd be getting a fire-polished acrylic 12' cube and delivery in 6mm crystal acrylic. So far the best I've got with delivery is Â£55 which I understand is a lot. If the numbers where right I'm sure I can get it much lower, I'd contacted one seller who wanted me to order a minimum of 30!
> ...


Grauf, just to clarify, do you mean 12 inches (not feet)??? otherwise i guess Â£55 is pretty good.  

Chris


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## Garuf (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*

Yes, I meant inches! Oops.
I've contacted another manufacturer I can get the price down to Â£40 posted but I'd need to order 20+ I don't think there's that much interest!

Neil, I tried one of those cubes and it got stress cracks in it after a few days, I don't think it'd be suitable I'm afraid.


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## NeilW (20 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Neil, I tried one of those cubes and it got stress cracks in it after a few days, I don't think it'd be suitable I'm afraid.



Ahh thats a shame, I always wondered so thats answered my curiosity


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## Themuleous (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*

I got a 12" clearseal cube but in floatglass from a LFS for Â£20 I think it was. Not sure if that helps at all though.

Sam


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## ghostsword (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12' cube*



			
				Garuf said:
			
		

> Hello everyone,
> I've been hunting about lately for some acrylic cubes I've found a couple of sellers who'd be prepared to make them as a batch to order. As of yet I have no prices (other than on single units) but since I'd be selling those I have spare what would you be prepared to pay?
> 
> You'd be getting a fire-polished acrylic 12' cube and delivery in 6mm crystal acrylic. So far the best I've got with delivery is Â£55 which I understand is a lot. If the numbers where right I'm sure I can get it much lower, I'd contacted one seller who wanted me to order a minimum of 30!
> ...



Hi, could you PM me the details of the supplier that quoted you for the 30cm cube @ Â£55 including delivery? I would like to buy two or more...


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## Garuf (21 Apr 2010)

*Re: How much would you pay for a acrylic 12" cube*

Luis, I've pm'd you. 

If anyones interested in buying one drop me a pm, this will give me an idea of numbers and I can then work out prices. I'm wont be taking any profit this is purely for the sake of the hobby and so I can get myself a nice acrylic cube for less than Â£55! Remember Acrylic is clearer than optiwhite, A lot cheaper than optiwhite and is easily customisable for those who want to add drains or turn them into vivariums. 

PM if you're interested and I'll get back to you ASAP with prices.


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## Garuf (21 Apr 2010)

Title change, looking to pre-order cubes with. As previous post, I'll not be making any profit, this is soley for the hobby.


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## ghostsword (21 Apr 2010)

Thanks, will pm you.. How long to get them delivered? Also, any warranty.


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## Garuf (22 Apr 2010)

Depends, I'm ordering one as a one off to check the quality and a few other things. Regarding a warrenty I'm not sure, there wouldn't be one from me as I'd be just a middle man, any issues I would then take up with the manufacturer. I really can't see any, the manufacturer has aerospace experience and that's much more demanding than 30kg's worth of water.


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## LondonDragon (22 Apr 2010)

I know someone that makes cubes but in glass where the corners are cut at a 45 degree angle, so you don't notice much silicone in them  Could also PM details. Note its in glass.


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## Garuf (22 Apr 2010)

Yeah, but the joy of Acrylic is that it's optically perfect up to a thickness of 1inch. That's higher clarity than optiwhite by about 60% according to the blurb. I can get cubes off the peg for Â£20 in glass but I'd like to give acrylic a try for it's higher clarity.

Also, if anyone's interested, black or white bases can be supplied for Â£1 extra.


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## GHNelson (22 Apr 2010)

HI Garuf
I'm interested,what about a silver base is that possible?
hoggie


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## Garuf (22 Apr 2010)

I can inquire. The options I was given were black, white, or clear. You'd only see the base from the top if it had no substrate in, when you do you'd only see the 6mm of it along the bottom, like I say I'll enquire for you.


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## Garuf (23 Apr 2010)

Hello, black white or clear are the only options I'm afraid Hogan.

If I order 5 tanks they'll be Â£32 WITHOUT postage, If I can get 20 orders together the price will be Â£26 WITHOUT postage. 40 orders, Â£24. I don't think 40 is likely though.  
I've been quoted Â£10 postage each unit but I'm certain I can get this greatly reduced if I can find a local currier who'll do small batches.


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## ghostsword (23 Apr 2010)

Hi, I would like to order 3 units, but warranty is an issue.. 

Could you ask for a quote of a tank that is 100cm long, 50cm wide and 40cm tall?


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## Garuf (23 Apr 2010)

I can do, yeah, they're pretty slow on replies so I expect a reply monday, Luis. I'll inquire about the warrenty thing, I'll concede I know nothing about this area of things.


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## ghostsword (23 Apr 2010)

Thanks.. 

This is the time to get a new tank, I got a aluminium stand that could do with a new tank..  Just need to check the prices.

Regarding warranty we will see what they say, should be ok, but better to know what is possible to get.


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## stevec (23 Apr 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I've been quoted Â£10 postage each unit but I'm certain I can get this greatly reduced if I can find a local currier who'll do small batches.



I use parcel monkey collect from your house cheap as well


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## GHNelson (23 Apr 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Hello, black white or clear are the only options I'm afraid Hogan.
> 
> If I order 5 tanks they'll be Â£32 WITHOUT postage, If I can get 20 orders together the price will be Â£26 WITHOUT postage. 40 orders, Â£24. I don't think 40 is likely though.
> I've been quoted Â£10 postage each unit but I'm certain I can get this greatly reduced if I can find a local courier who'll do small batches.



Hi again,
Clear base for me then.
Keep me posted cheers.
hoggie


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## bigmatt (26 Apr 2010)

Good stuff - i'm seeing a bank of tanks side by side each with a different type of aquascape.  ADA gallery eat your heart out!  Could even drill a small overflow in each tank to run into a common sump container, then a single spraybar along the top of them - reduce costs even more by only needing one filter/CO2 reactor/dosing pump!  and the larger overall volume of water would stabilse the water chemistry.  I'm seeing different shrimp species in each tank, and maybe a couple with microrasbora species.  Help!  I can see the money disappearing before my eyes!
But seriously ... Moderators - This strikes me as a good thing for UKAPS to buy into?  Maybe (if funds allow) buy a job lot of 40 and sell through the site (i'm sure most members would pay a small premium by way of a donation to the site).  Maybe this could even be the basis for the next UKAPS competition (design a shrimp 'scape using only Java Ferns, moss and whatever hardscape you can find in a 12'' cube?)
THanks again Garuf !
Matt


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## Garuf (28 Apr 2010)

Thanks Big Matt, I've got 8 orders at the moment, I'm in talks to get the cubes at a lower rate if I can get 15, waiting to see it that's possible. 

I'm working on the basis that it could be endlessly flexible regarding drilling/plumbing and it's a massive breath of fresh air to think in that way. The shrimp barracks is a great idea too. 

A lot to think about. 
I'd like to give this 2-3 more weeks before placing the orders provided people are happy with costs. Just hope theres more interest, the more people get excited the cheaper they'll be.


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## bigmatt (28 Apr 2010)

Hate to state the obvious but have you posted them in the "For Sale" thread?  Sure that would drum up a lot of interest! Also have you contacted the administrators to see if they can give it a high profile plug in any way?  And could you put me down for another one please!  Been thinking about the shrimp barracks and it's too much t resist! Got a spare Fluval 303 in the garage that would be perfect (as long as the wife doesn't find out...) 
Cheers
Matt


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## Mortis (1 May 2010)

Do these have curved corners on the front or are they silicone type joints ?


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## Garuf (1 May 2010)

They're fused at the corners so like silicone but there's zero waste, I have one as an advance of the orders to make sure the quality is okay. 

By the way, I'd read the makers email wrong, they meant as a side panel ie, as a background not a base, egg on face!


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## tomsteer (5 May 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> I have one as an advance of the orders to make sure the quality is okay.



When will you be getting this? I'd be interested in two units.

I see in your original information that they will be 6mm, I have had a quote previously from a company that advertises on aquarist classified (Not sure if I can mention them as they arent a sponsor) who quoted a 12" cube in 10mm acrylic. 

They quoted Â£40 per unit (For an order of 2) but I have read mixed reviews about their quality. I also had a quote from a well respected acrylic tank builder (Who I think build tanks for TGM) and they quoted Â£245 per unit (They didnt give details of the thickness) - I'm sure it would be a thing of beauty and perfectly finished but far too rich for me.


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## bigmatt (6 May 2010)

Any news onthe sample tank Garuf?  Pics would be ace!
Â£245 for a one foot cube...(thud as Matt faints to the floor) 
M


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## Garuf (7 May 2010)

Spoke to them on the phone yesterday, they want an upfront deposit which I'm waiting them to calculate then it'll be on the way. I can't believe anyone would want nearly Â£300 for what's essentially a plastic box.


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## jcastell (18 May 2010)

that may sound expensive but it's not, reasons are:

1) the joins will have better quality, no bubbles
2) it is a fair amount of work cutting the pieces right since making sure they align almost perfectly so application of the acrylic cement gives the desired result
3) and I'm sure their acrylic cement is their own secret formulation that they can't share with anybody

I know how hard it is to get bubbleless joins, you can get the materials relatively cheaply and try it out yourself if you wish, but it's a very difficult job since most acrylic cements/solvents SHRINK on bonding. And the ones that don't shrink don't have the strength that you can trust to hold the water pressure.

You really get what you pay for.

Personally for something as small as a cube I'd just get a opti-white and be done with it.


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## Garuf (18 May 2010)

A retort:
1)I've used acrylic myself and found it pretty easy to get good bubble free joins... The company I've sourced is an aerospace industry, I'm sure they know what they're doing, people in the aerospace industry are very exacting in their demands and for very good reason.
2)The acrylic is computer cut, no issues there. 
3)I spoke to them about this before I found out it was cheaper to let them build the cubes, they're not allowed to use any glues that aren't tested by the government to ensure strength and chemical properties under load and their stress thresholds, this information then has to be published so that strength and stress ratios are available to the end user and to make sure the correct spec glue is used.

The reason for not getting an optiwhite in this size is simple, one is less than Â£30 the other is over Â£160. 

I simply can't see where the Â£245 asking price comes from, not when I was quoted Â£60 for a 12" cube in 12mm acrylic, made using computer aided design and manufacture.


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## stevec (18 May 2010)

I have a firm that could quite easily produce these cubes as to the spec above and was watching this thread with the anticipation of stepping in to offer a better price................

Here's how I see it for 20 tanks @ Â£25 each total Â£500

materials/ cement gotta allow Â£100

leaves Â£400 for labour @ Â£30 per hour we charge thats roughly 13 hrs to cut, assemble and test 20 tanks

plus take the responsibility of disgruntled customers

I cant compete with that 

I think your getting a bargain


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## ghostsword (18 May 2010)

He is indeed getting a bargain..  

I got quotes for close to Â£200 for such tanks.

Just need to see the quality on the 1st one, if it is good, then I can order more, or something bigger.


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## Garuf (18 May 2010)

Stevec. Please email me: garethcallear at googlemail.com.


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## stevec (19 May 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Stevec. Please email me: garethcallear at googlemail.com.



have done?


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## GHNelson (26 May 2010)

HI Garuf
Any news on these babies.
hoggie


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## Garuf (26 May 2010)

I placed the order and a deposit for 20 yesterday morning, I'm awaiting a posted invoice and a "permission for commencement" form then there should be a 14day turnaround on everything.


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## alip01 (26 May 2010)

Great to see you've managed to get 20. 

When and how do you want the payment? Did I order 3 in the end?

Thanks!

Posted with TouchBB on my iPod touch


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## Garuf (26 May 2010)

I won't be taking any payment until I have all 20 in my possession, I think that's fairest.

I ended up getting 17 orders so I'll have 3 spares that will go on sale should people have no issue. 

Ali, it was 3 to get the numbers up so it wasn't an extra spare tank, hope that's okay.


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## Kosh42-EFG (26 May 2010)

Cool... Now I need to source myself lights and filters...


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## Garuf (26 May 2010)

I wouldn't commit till you have the tank and are happy. I've negotiated it to if I'm not happy I'll be able to return for a refund but in the mean time I don't want the possibility of another AE off the peg nano debarcle. Air on the side of safety and all that.


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## Kosh42-EFG (27 May 2010)

No probs... Is it too late to ask for a black backing on my tank? Not to worry if not...


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## George Farmer (27 May 2010)

Hi Gareth

These seem excellent value for money assuming the quality is good.  Thanks for all your hard work on these for the benefit of the UKAPS membership.  Doing it for non-profit too is very commendable indeed, so thank you again.

I see that they are 6mm thick acrylic and assume they're not braced.  

Have you considered how much bowing there will be?  I think you will be surprised...  Even some the braced acrylic tanks at the Interzoo that were 12mm or so were bowing considerably.  My little nano even bows!  

All this said, I don't think the bowing is an issue in terms of safety or breakages (acrylic is much stronger and more flexible), it's just something that may surprise some folk.

Keep up the good work!


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## JohnC (27 May 2010)

excited now. thanks again for the effort.


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## GHNelson (28 May 2010)

Gang@ukpsf
Around of   applause for Gareth  
Top man there's not many left these days.
Cheers 
hoggie


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## alip01 (9 Jun 2010)

Have you got a date for when the cubes are going to be ready yet Gareth?

Posted with TouchBB on my iPod touch


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## Garuf (9 Jun 2010)

Nope, I've been given a rough turn around of 28 days after the final order period is passed. I'll chase up tomorrow and see what's going on.


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## alip01 (10 Jun 2010)

Have you had any luck finding out what's happening Gareth?


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## Garuf (10 Jun 2010)

Couldn't get through on the phones so I've shot them an email, should know soon, they're normally very good with replying to emails.


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## jcastell (13 Jun 2010)

> 1)I've used acrylic myself and found it pretty easy to get good bubble free joins... The company I've sourced is an aerospace industry, I'm sure they know what they're doing, people in the aerospace industry are very exacting in their demands and for very good reason.



I know of no solvent available to the public that gives bubble free joints (and if they do it's at the cost of bond strength), They've always been found wanting, if you know of one that doesn't I'd very much like to hear about it.



> 2)The acrylic is computer cut, no issues there.



computer cutting is not the issue, making sure it's level FLAT contact on bonding is, it's a very difficult thing to do. That's why only specialist places can do it, it's not something that someone with a little workshop can do, unless we are talking about small stuff like your 12" cubes



> 3)I spoke to them about this before I found out it was cheaper to let them build the cubes, they're not allowed to use any glues that aren't tested by the government to ensure strength and chemical properties under load and their stress thresholds, this information then has to be published so that strength and stress ratios are available to the end user and to make sure the correct spec glue is used.



is this glue available to the public.  Releasing bond strength figures is one thing, releasing chemical composition of the solvent is another.

And I really don't know what a 12" opti white cube should be Â£160, can't you get the glass cut and do it yourself. It would be a whole lot safer and easier than working with acrylic.

Ebay has 25cm cubes as well:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250567293442

For 12mm we are talking about Â£15 a foot square which in the case of your tank would be Â£75 in materials already!



> I see that they are 6mm thick acrylic and assume they're not braced.



acrylic bending is a whole lot worse than that. Unlike glass, when acrylic bends it "keeps" the bend over time, which means if the tank you see is already bent for some time, if you empty it completely it still retains the bend unless acted on to move back to the flat position.

I had a 24" acrylic cube tank what was braced in 10mm acrylic for Â£200 some while back.


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## alip01 (16 Jun 2010)

Have you had a response to your email yet Gareth?  

(As you can probably tell I can't wait to get my cubes!  )


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## JohnC (16 Jun 2010)

alip01 said:
			
		

> Have you had a response to your email yet Gareth?
> 
> (As you can probably tell I can't wait to get my cubes!  )


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## Garuf (16 Jun 2010)

Oh heck, I'd forgotten to check my emails. Will check now Sorry everyone who's on tenter hooks.


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## alip01 (16 Jun 2010)

From the lack of response I presume you've not had any emails from the manufacturer?


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## Garuf (16 Jun 2010)

Yeah no reply. I've shot them another email asking them to contact me ASAP.


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## alip01 (2 Jul 2010)

Any updates yet Gareth?


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## pauld (4 Jul 2010)

just a thought im going to be repairing a large tank soon the price i was qouted for glass shocked me it was so cheap how about makeing your own cube ?


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## Garuf (4 Jul 2010)

Spoke to a very helpful woman on the phone who told me the manager would be in touch with me regarding details of my order as it had been entered as "low assigned value - to be reviewed - pending" and than she couldn't tell me any more than that as she knew nothing more. I moved house on thursday and only got chance to see if I'd had an email reply today, I had a  reply from thursday confirming that I'd be called on monday "should schedules allow". I'll update as soon as I've spoken to someone in the know. Sorry to keep everyone hanging!


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## alip01 (7 Jul 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Spoke to a very helpful woman on the phone who told me the manager would be in touch with me regarding details of my order as it had been entered as "low assigned value - to be reviewed - pending" and than she couldn't tell me any more than that as she knew nothing more. I moved house on thursday and only got chance to see if I'd had an email reply today, I had a  reply from thursday confirming that I'd be called on monday "should schedules allow". I'll update as soon as I've spoken to someone in the know. Sorry to keep everyone hanging!



Did the schedules allow for you to be called on Monday?


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## Garuf (7 Jul 2010)

Nope, I'm at my whits end with the company in question if I'm honest, I've requested for confimation of the status of my order within 48hours before I approach my bank to cancel the cheque I wrote as a deposit. All 20 tanks, a prototype one with drilled back and white back and a wabi kusa tray were meant to have arrived 3weeks back on the original time plan before they shuffled everything around and put my order on hold. My order was so small compared to their usual orders that the bigger orders had to take precident, they just never got back to me confirming when they'd be put back till...
 Ever get the feeling you bit off more than you can chew?


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## JohnC (7 Jul 2010)

Garuf said:
			
		

> Nope, I'm at my whits end with the company in question if I'm honest, I've requested for confimation of the status of my order within 48hours before I approach my bank to cancel the cheque I wrote as a deposit. All 20 tanks, a prototype one with drilled back and white back and a wabi kusa tray were meant to have arrived 3weeks back on the original time plan before they shuffled everything around and put my order on hold. My order was so small compared to their usual orders that the bigger orders had to take precident, they just never got back to me confirming when they'd be put back till...
> Ever get the feeling you bit off more than you can chew?



bah, they could be on to a real cash cow here too if they are up to scratch. i've got probably another 5 people interested at this end just by from the description and price.


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## ghostsword (7 Jul 2010)

Wabi Kusa trays? Dude, what a shame that the company is not able to sort us out.. :/


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## Garuf (8 Jul 2010)

It's really annoying because I'd been sent the cad files they be using, okay'd everything, let them design a tongue in groove slot system so that it was as strong as possible and agreed on a tensile spec acrylic that would reduce deflection to a minimum and had everything ready to go, then they contacted me saying they'd taken on a number of huge orders from their "usual sector" and would have to postpone and it's all just gone wrong since. 

And yes, the Wabi trays, it was essentially a 30cm x 30cm by 10cm tray with an external sump of 10x10x10cm in which a small pump and some filter wool could be placed to filter the tank without detracting from the scape. Like a built in hang on back filter. 

24hours left before I contact the bank and let them see things through.


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## ghostsword (8 Jul 2010)

That wabi tray would be amazing.. It is sad that this happens.. 

I would contact some places in china and see if they can help out..


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## JohnC (9 Jul 2010)

http://www.acrylicdesign.co.uk/products.php?action=showItems&params[id]=193

?


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## alip01 (9 Jul 2010)

Those look like they might be suitable. Though they're 5mm rather than 6mm acrylic so it might bend quite a lot.  My school's got a laser cutter that I could use to cut a top ring which could then be stuck on to give added strength like TGM style of tanks if bowing was a big problem.

Posted with TouchBB on my iPod touch


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## alip01 (10 Jul 2010)

Have you cancelled the order Gareth?


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## Garuf (12 Jul 2010)

I have but not in the way you'd think, had the manager call me, finally and say they can't produce the tanks at all anymore and that because the orders so small they couldn't outsourse them (which is what was pending) so basically all bets are off, confidence dented and Â£50 worse off. (Â£50 was kept as a paperwork fee). I don't think I'll be trying anything similar again, unless you've company muscle and huge orders you just get laughed at and mucked about, I've a seperate quote which is Â£1 cheaper from a different company but I'm not in the slightest bit inclined to put myself out over it after this instance, it's too much of a liability when people don't come through for you.  

Again sorry everyone, I'm incredibly sorry for wasting all of your time.


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## ghostsword (13 Jul 2010)

What is the name of the company, so that I do not loose time with them?


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