# Need some urgent advicd



## Ghosty (11 Mar 2015)

hey guys I'll explain as best I can

I have a semi planted aquarium, and got an amazing deal on a 50g juwel Rio,
Problem is I am defiantly looking to go Dirt route, but the tank I'm collecting has fish already establish, I can't however travel with near 100l, so will fish cycle the tank with seeded media,Mehta im trying to figure out is how to go dirtied without the amonia spike, I don't want to cycle, ypand wait for minerlisation then recycle again, the fish have been at the the sellers for years so I doubt they will handle two cycles and the stress or a rescaled tank, I can get lots of plants but won't be here till next Friday as I buy from a website and my lfs charge a lot for plants

So what options do I have do I travel and get aquatic soil or can I mineralise soil in a tank and do 50% everyday all whilst cycling a new volume of water


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## Jay1 (11 Mar 2015)

Well you can go fish in cycle, but as you are well aware of the amount of water changes needed to keep stock alive.
My own personal experience with tank transfers there is always spikes and TBF it can shortern the life of the stock regardless of water changes, as you know Ammonia as little as 0.2PPM can affect the development of the stock. 
You can buy various chems to deal with the spikes short term, but TBF it slows down the nitrogen cycle long term and filters and tanks suffer more with spikes and in the end it takes even longer to settle. 
If you don't care about stock and its cheap stock, you can carry on.
Another option is to have someone look after the stock until you are done and water is safe Or buy a large plastic temp home and use a mature filter. 
I think you need to look more closely at the dirt or substrate and start actually working out what you are dealing with as most compost and soil will contain Ammonia and leach out.
As for soil and time frames I'm sure some here can advise better than I. 
Good luck!


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## Ghosty (11 Mar 2015)

Hello there jay

The stock I have no worries for, I spoke will my lfs, they said they may take them, yh I figured there would be to many amonia spikes just with a good clean alone let alone not being able to transfer a large enough volume of water back,mso there's a cycle to deal with right there, plus the amonia leach from the soil

I'm well aware of the minerlisation process of soil, and had I not have the added stock of the 50g I would be fine, I have a 10g community already, with a selection of the family's faviourte species, seller mention a red tailed shark witch sounds fun, doubtful on compaitablity with my bn pleco 

Hoping doing daily 50% water changes will keep things from going sour, long enough for me to keep adding plants Intill it finds its balance


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## EnderUK (12 Mar 2015)

lime free topsoil, sieve out the big bits, stick in 5mm-10mm depth in the tank. Cap with whatever to a depth of 15-25mm, add plenty of plants, add water, add floters, add fish do 50-60% daily water changes for the next month. The minerlisation in the soil will happen in the tank. Mature filter, Water changes and duckweed will take care of the ammonia.


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## Ghosty (12 Mar 2015)

Hello there Ender
Exactly what I wanted to hear,
Went to local garden ceneter they stock westlands John innes no3 for 4 quid so will grab that, I never realised how expensive it is to buy gravel, is there a cheap way I can get hold of gravel preferably black


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## humdingerx (12 Mar 2015)

EnderUK said:


> lime free topsoil, sieve out the big bits, stick in 5mm-10mm depth in the tank. Cap with whatever to a depth of 15-25mm, add plenty of plants, add water, add floters, add fish do 50-60% daily water changes for the next month. The minerlisation in the soil will happen in the tank. Mature filter, Water changes and duckweed will take care of the ammonia.



This is pretty much what I did. I used Wickes Graded Topsoil, except forgot to sieve out the big bits (doh!) cheap as chips and haven't had any problems. I've read John Innes will leach stuff out (ammonia? I forget off the top of my head) and then went with the Wickes stuff instead, which is also lime free.


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## Andy Thurston (12 Mar 2015)

john innes 3 has lime in it and probably adds to the kh and probably leaches ammonia but its not really a problem if you stick to the 50% weekly water changes and don't use too much.


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## Ghosty (12 Mar 2015)

Hey guys cheers for replies

Right I have come to my conclusion on what I am doing, as I went and priced everything up today, I will be using the following

Westlands John innes no3
Jbl Aqua basis as it contains clay/peat, and I have hard water (my attempt to slightly soften new tank and provide a high cec)
Retainer 
1-3mm black gravel

I cannot however afford all this and a bulk load of plants so what I am going to do is order the plants get the new tank set up with its supplied stuff (gravel, fish,filter)' add the bulk plants in rows, (no scape)' fish cycle the 240l of water,

Week after I will obtain my westlands soil, then week after I will order gravel and peat/clay, Asoon as its dispatched I will, let the soil soak over might removing all floating material, the morning after I will drain and reapet Intill the gravel arrives, if the good old English weather allows some sun I will try and at least dry the soil out before adding it to the tank,

I didn't not realise lfs. Can charge 30 quid for abit of wood some kid in Brazil found in some mud,

Furthermore, the lfs said as I'm a good customer they will do whatever they can to take anything I don't want and even offered me some plants in return for anything with any worth, I have no need for someone else's fish, I of course could add anything I like to my current tank, but I'm sure I have no need for a red tailed shark

Btw I ramble,

I'm looking for some cheap wood alternatives I hear oak and willow can be used, is this true as I live in Hertfordshire loads trees here lol


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## Tim Harrison (12 Mar 2015)

Any hard wood will do, just remove the bark. As for cheap black sand try this http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...tre-bow-fronted-tank.33987/page-2#post-367981 in fact the whole of Clive's journal is a pretty good leaning curve.


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## Ghosty (12 Mar 2015)

Hello there troi

I used a large ish peices of Maponi in my ten gal, for that exact reason didn't even touch it, may be using red moor root, or dead oak in this one,

I will read on those links tonight thank you,


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## Ghosty (12 Mar 2015)

Sorry to be a rambling pain

Obviously my budget is fairly tight and cannot afford buying rocks and wood, but however I do have a lot of woodlands, bogs, and lakes around me and a hyper 2 yr old

Troi so you say any hard wood will do, what about a already water soaked wood from say a bog or lakes, have a lot of that around me to, and swamps, 

Where can I find nice rocks, lake bottoms? Digging?


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## Tim Harrison (13 Mar 2015)

No worries...That should be fine, perhaps soak it for a while to remove any potential nasties tho' This link might be of interest too http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hornbeam-a-suitable-decor-material.29015/


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## Ghosty (13 Mar 2015)

Went to local woods, a lot of fallen branches so have a far share to choose from didn't want to bring any back without further clarification

spoke with the local parish, and the following list is what tress there are
hornbeam, beech, pedunculate oak, ash, cherry, field maple, holly, elder and hawthorn and the occasional sycamore and hazel. Are these all safe to use?

Hmmmm I might go find a fallen ash tree and make a new guitar


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## Tim Harrison (13 Mar 2015)

All should be fine...


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## Ghosty (13 Mar 2015)

Sweet, will spend the day tomorrow looking for wood, then will go to lakes and find rocks,

Troi you seem to pull of some beautiful aqua scales, would natrual coloured or black, give me a better look

I can get 25kg natrual for 17 quid, or 25kg black for 27 quid


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## Another Phil (13 Mar 2015)

Hi Ghosty,
If possible get branches and stuff from cuttings piles, tops of hedges etc as one of the problems with Britain is that it is so damp that wood lying on the ground quickly starts to rot, especially if it is dead-fall which has normally been dead in the tree long enough for fungi and beetles to already get to work on it. 
 I got some branches which were wedged in my local sea defences, but the portion in air has salt crystals formed on it although I pre-soaked it. - the underwater bit's good though

Troi's link and the PlanetCatfish link within it is excellent.

I don't see any probs with your list.
I've tried elder and it falls apart too quickly.
Lime twigs are good (you can buy limewood  "airstones" ).
Hazel might rot too quickly.

Take off any bark - easier the sooner you do it - as I guess it has lots of anti-bacterial/fungal etc defences to protect the tree, so we can use it as a weed-free mulch in gardens.

A lot of folks here get wood from lakes and bogs without probs, some have used buddleia as well but I don't know how long for.

I've often wondered about sweet chestnut which is used for fence palings as it is rot resistant but couldn't find info.

Regardless of what you use you will learn about different trees and things so that's a result.
cheers phil


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## Another Phil (13 Mar 2015)

Ghosty said:


> Where can I find nice rocks, lake bottoms? Digging?


 You'll definitely find rock if you go deep enough; nice? - maybe

It's easier if someone else has done the work, so road-cuttings, construction works, farmer's waste piles, old quarries, etc.
NB. local laws on feral rock collecting as it were might vary.
We had friends in Waltham Abbey and unfortunately Hertfordshire's pretty barren as regards surface rocks. I did get a piece of Hertfordshire-Pudding-Stone from a reclaimed waste tip on the way to Cambridge but that was a complete fluke (to everyone else's annoyance!).
cheers phil


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## Ghosty (13 Mar 2015)

Hey Phil cheers for the tips, yh I live in St albans so got lots of woodlands and lakes to spend the weekend scavenging,
I looked today for some rock and there was sod all, found lots of broken cement, hoping digging in woods tomorrow will find me some nice rock, might get me scuba diving gear out lol

Here's another quick question if you don't mind, I'm so confused as regards to t5s IV growin indoor ""herbs"" and vegs I know that 2700k and 6500k mix are best for differant periods of growth but does that apply for aquatic

I'm considering

A cool white 840 4000k £2
A daylight 860 6500k £2
Or a warm white 830 3000k £2
Sky white 880 8000k £8

I think defo a 6500k but witch between the cool white or warm, will give me the best fish colour and plant colour rendition, the sky white will be un natrual to me living in UK n all, and will defo pop the blues of my tetra, but my as its mine and my 2 yr olds tank, I want a mixture of two bulbs that will help make the best colour rendition in the tank, vibrancy is a must tbh, 

Sorry for all the questions, but hey that's what we're all here for 

Asoon as I have all the answer I will order everything and start a journal, witch will be well documented by my fiancé with her new dslr


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## Another Phil (13 Mar 2015)

Heh - it's gravel all the way down
Google maps allows you to zoom into areas of broken ground, cuttings, illicit dumps beside laybys,  etc.

Can't help with the lights, advice is whichever you prefer and the plants will be fine, no need to worry, as far as I know.
cheers phil


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## Ghosty (13 Mar 2015)

pudding stones are awsomeeee, im find me some tomorrow, my little girl loves digging so it's a fun day out in the mud,

Did not realise the geographical history in pudding stone I think they will be an amazing addition to my aquarium

So my weekends planned, walk around with a buggy full of sticks and stones


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## Ghosty (14 Mar 2015)

bar me sounding like a fool, I have revised aquatic lighting decided this

As the fixtures around my house are warm white,(relaxing), I have decided a daylight bulb 65000k would look more then white enough for my eyes, I have also found out the ge bulbs have higher par then some but lack on producing red wavelengths but high in Orange, I had decided on the Osama lumilux but I think it's high output so now I'm back to square one

My budget is fairly tight

Ghosty


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## Tim Harrison (14 Mar 2015)

Ghosty said:


> pudding stones are awsomeeee, im find me some tomorrow, my little girl loves digging so it's a fun day out in the mud,
> 
> Did not realise the geographical history in pudding stone I think they will be an amazing addition to my aquarium
> 
> So my weekends planned, walk around with a buggy full of sticks and stones


Sounds like fun

As for lighting have you been pointed at this yet? http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-ho-t5-fluorescent-tubes-update-with-photos.555/


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## Ghosty (14 Mar 2015)

Read everything I could get my hands on as regards to t5 I understand I need the bulb to have wavelength spikes in red green and blue, and the kellvein is a personal choice, I have already decided on 6500k daylight or 865

I had as mentioned decided on the osram lumilux 865 but it's a ho bulb. And the juwel Rio 240 lighting system isint ho
I have found really cheap ge bulbs but they have mo spikes in red its in Orange instead,

So what I had decided was the osram lumilux 865 with a Philips or ge 865 can no longer be done I have to find a cheap non ho t5


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