# saintlys sumatradriftwood scape



## Mark Evans (26 Jul 2008)

this is bit of a premature journal.

im still in process of getting everythig together.

i have:

1 tank arcadia 40x30x30
lights 3 arcadia pods
sand ADA bright sand
3 pieces of sumatra drift wood.
mini landscape rock.

i need:

co2 glass ware
external filter.
maybe a new lighting unit.
AS amazonia

prepare for a call AE   

plant wise?... new ground again. from researching mosses for sure.  c helferi, glosso or hc probably glosso. small leaved stems red and green. my god so much to choose from   

anyway a pic...this is what i had before, no design, no scape. but i managed to keep the plants alive. basic co2 ladder etc etc...






this is a basic plan, the wood is just thrown in. ive got another bit which im going to cut. im having a sand front. im using PS just to give the look of substrate. the stones to hold everything together.





anyway, still a month or two away yet. gives me chance to choose plants, scape the thing and get my wife round to my way of thinking   

mark


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## TDI-line (26 Jul 2008)

Very cool Saintly.


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## passerby* (26 Jul 2008)

cool stuff...another journal hey!..just out of interest what carpeting plant is tht in ur arcadia tank....(pictured above)
cheers....passerby.


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## Mark Evans (26 Jul 2008)

riccia on slate, and gloss. this was what really got me on the wagon know as "The Nature Aquarium"

this is how it started.you see i didnt have a clue, riccia over the gravel?  :? 





this was my rena april this year, this is where it all started realy my first planted tank, i had some MAJOR issues with this thing.




mark


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## passerby* (26 Jul 2008)

cheers for your reply....all your hard work pays off in the end though...more u put in, the more u get out... just a shame that saying seems to include money more than effort in the aquarium world ..lol


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## jay (26 Jul 2008)

Like where this could be going.
Must say though, I had that Sumatra wood stuff, not yours personally Mark  
Just the way they leave it with those sawn of branches. So ruins every scape I've ever seen with it.
Some people cover them with moss etc. but I just look at them and think 'theres a cut end under there'.

Anyway, goodluck


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## LondonDragon (26 Jul 2008)

Looking great, PM me when you need some mosses


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## Mark Evans (26 Jul 2008)

will do LD, thanks.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Anyway, goodluck





			
				TDI-line said:
			
		

> Very cool Saintly.



thanks folks.



			
				passerby* said:
			
		

> just a shame that saying seems to include money more than effort in the aquarium world ..lol



tis rather expensive, seems that anything i do is expensive...thats what my wife says anyway.


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## nickyc (26 Jul 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> tis rather expensive, seems that anything i do is expensive...thats what my wife says anyway.



Lol!  My b/f used to say the same about me.  Then he got a marine tank     Expense on a planted tank [or 3   ] just pales into insignficance!!


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## spaldingaquatics (26 Jul 2008)

If that's L.Sessiliflora like mine in that rena then the constant cutting back would be a hassle  

both tanks looking great btw


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## Mark Evans (27 Jul 2008)

spaldingaquatics said:
			
		

> If that's L.Sessiliflora like mine in that rena then the constant cutting back would be a hassle



thankfully thst tank ended a few months ago. that was my "learning to grow plants" stage. i had no idea about aquascaping.



			
				nickyc said:
			
		

> Lol! My b/f used to say the same about me. Then he got a marine tank  Expense on a planted tank [or 3  ] just pales into insignficance!!



i'll have to try and get my wife into it. i did buy the optiwhite for her birthday present, but she said she didnt want it....i had do have it!   ungratefull


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## aaronnorth (6 Aug 2008)

Any updates?


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## Mark Evans (6 Aug 2008)

yeh, i'll be starting soon. it's to be set up at my mothers. waiting for ADA AS.

mark


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## aaronnorth (6 Aug 2008)

cool  8)


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## Mark Evans (12 Aug 2008)

this scape has been suspended. im now concentrating on my big tank total rescape. this is currently being run as a nursery. with plants donated kindly by john starkey and london dragon   thanks chaps.

donation to ukaps coming.

this is purely and simply a holding tank now, these plants are not part of a scape, just in there to grow. as with the moss's and riccia.it's going to get more cluttered soon   





saintly's iwagumi part 3 to come. hopefully with valuable lessons learnt.

mark


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## LondonDragon (12 Aug 2008)

Looking forward to the new scape, never tried mosses until I joined this forum and got some donated by Ed, now I have a pretty good collection going, just love them.
So far I have Weeping, Spiky, Xmas, Taiwan, Flame, Willow moss and also some Fissidens fontanus


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## Mark Evans (14 Aug 2008)

LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Looking forward to the new scape,



thanks LD. now i can see the moss for real, it's a fabulous plant also. even though my big tank is a total nursery mess. i can see how things will look in my next scape(i think) i want it to be quite complicated in layout. ambitious is the word, i think.textures, colour, stones wood. the whole damn lot!


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## aaronnorth (15 Aug 2008)

cool shot 8)


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## John Starkey (15 Aug 2008)

Hi Mark,nice looking limnophila aromatica you have there   ,regards john


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## durtydurty (15 Aug 2008)

How do you get the what I presume is vallis to grow like that at the back of the tank? 

Its the look Im going for buts it yet to grow that thick.


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## LondonDragon (15 Aug 2008)

durtydurty said:
			
		

> How do you get the what I presume is vallis to grow like that at the back of the tank?
> Its the look Im going for buts it yet to grow that thick.


You plant a lot of them together


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## jay (15 Aug 2008)

Thought it was Cyperus. Helferi?


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## Dan Crawford (15 Aug 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> Thought it was Cyperus. Helferi?


It's vallis nana.


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## Mark Evans (15 Aug 2008)

its both   . nan and helferi. when you look at it full on, you cans see a slight difference in colour tones, which is nice.

i planted heavy from the start. 7 pots of each(i think) grows like a weed. i would say theres at least 100 individual plantlets in there. so when i rescape there will be some going spare   

oh, and thanks to john starkey and london dragon for there contributions   cheers guys.

mark


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## Joecoral (15 Aug 2008)

another quality scape matey!


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## Mark Evans (15 Aug 2008)

Joecoral said:
			
		

> another quality scape matey!



thanks joe, this ones bit more of a holding tank for my plants until i get a chance to rip it down and start again.  

mark


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## Joecoral (15 Aug 2008)

well if my scape looks half as good as your holding tank i'd be happy


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## Dan Crawford (15 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> Joecoral said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people would give there right arm for a scape like that pal, including me and it's only a "holding" tank


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## Wayney (15 Aug 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Some people would give there right arm for a scape like that pal, including me and it's only a "holding" tank



I'd give my right arm, left arm and possibly a few toe's for a scape like that


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## Mark Evans (15 Aug 2008)

Dan Crawford said:
			
		

> Some people would give there right arm for a scape like that pal, including me and it's only a "holding" tank



we both know thats not true dan   



			
				cichlidsrgr8 said:
			
		

> 'd give my right arm, left arm and possibly a few toe's for a scape like that



if you carry on the way your going with your rock arranging, you WILL have a scape like that.   

anyways before.....overgrown mess





current setup. from a similar angle





and one from ages ago.





this journal shall be ending soon too. getting ready for the next scape. even im confused with the journals ive got going on here   

mark


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## LondonDragon (15 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> this journal shall be ending soon too. getting ready for the next scape. even im confused with the journals ive got going on here
> mark


Hahaha yeah I have noticed how you mix all your tanks into all your journals with old and new photos haha


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## Mark Evans (17 Aug 2008)

im growing fond of my nursery now. john (starkey) the new plant is rooting nicely    ive added to the tank p heferi and hc!


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## jay (18 Aug 2008)

Looking guuurrd Mark.

How many bags of AS you us for this tank?


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## Mark Evans (18 Aug 2008)

6 or 7 i think, and a bag of powersand. im not going down that route again. i'll fill with sponge or polystyrene in future then fill or make a perspex divider of some sort.i wont use powersand neither.

mark


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## jay (18 Aug 2008)

Blimey!
Thats a whole lot of cash up the spout mate.
Yeah I just wondered because I got my 4FT tank coming soon and I love the depth and gradiant to your substrate.
I've got a few bits of sponge lined up to pad out the back. Think I read about it on my-mac forums a while ago. Going to need quite a bit of AS to make sure the sponge is all covered though as I'm sure my rams would make short work of it if they  got a look at it


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## Mark Evans (20 Aug 2008)

riccia corner .





heres a question. in the next pic you can see the aromatica starting to close its leafs up, like they do at night. now every stem ive kept does this about half hour before lights out. quite strange to see.it happens when they get used to the light timers. anyone else noticed this?





mark


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## John Starkey (21 Aug 2008)

HI Mark,funny you should say that about the L,Aromatica mine seem to close up their leaves well before lights off,do you think they do this when they have had sufficient photoperiod?,regards john ps: the top leaves of mine are really puple too.


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## ceg4048 (21 Aug 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> HI Mark,funny you should say that about the L,Aromatica mine seem to close up their leaves well before lights off,do you think they do this when they have had sufficient photoperiod?,regards john ps: the top leaves of mine are really puple too.



Hi John,
           Yes, most plants only need about 8-10 hours of decent light and then then are finished. That is the main reason why we can shut off the CO2 relatively early in the the photoperiod. Many stems have mobile leaves that close up like this.  

Cheers,


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## LondonDragon (21 Aug 2008)

I notice that effect on a few plants I have in the tank. Its a good way to determine also if your photo period is too long  I shut my CO2 off 3 hours before lights out.

Mark the tank is looking great, you don't need a rescape after all


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> ps: the top leaves of mine are really puple too.



whats the best way of achieving this? is it by limiting a specific nutrient? BTW john, the roots it gives off are massive!



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> Mark the tank is looking great, you don't need a rescape after all



maybe not LD but it's getting one  ...   

mark


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## aaronnorth (21 Aug 2008)

i thought i was looking at the sumatra scape then i got really confused when i saw the other tank 

Where did you get the wood from?


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> i thought i was looking at the sumatra scape then i got really confused when i saw the other tank
> 
> Where did you get the wood from?



even im getting confused, i think everyones getting fed up and bored with me posting all the time  :? 

the wood is from sumatra!   via MA @ eastbridgfoed

mark


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## aaronnorth (21 Aug 2008)

> the wood is from sumatra



very funny    thanks Mate, do they do marines there?


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> do they do marines there?



yeh, some real nice fish actualy. they also have a huge marine tank set up.

mark


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## aaronnorth (21 Aug 2008)

30 mile from me - i wish i could drive   i am not getting any yet but it is good too know.


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

of course, your from worksop. i forgot your relatively close to me.


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## Steve Smith (21 Aug 2008)

Sumatra wood is sold by the supplier UNIPAC.  Most Maidenhead's seem to stock it (well, the several I've been into at least!)  I have some in my little 54 litre tank which I'll be fiddling with in the next few days


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## aaronnorth (21 Aug 2008)

my nan goes there every week dancing


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## John Starkey (21 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> john starkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Saintly,the best way to get the purple leaves is light intesitiy, which i think you will have with your arcadia lighting,my photoperiod is eight hours this seems to suit my setup,yes the root system is really good isnt it   ,regards john


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## Mark Evans (21 Aug 2008)

john starkey said:
			
		

> Hi Saintly,the best way to get the purple leaves is light intesitiy, which i think you will have with your arcadia lighting,my photoperiod is eight hours this seems to suit my setup,yes the root system is really good isnt it  ,regards john



thanks john, we'll see what happens when starts to get closer to the top. this is now my favourite plant. everyone comments on it. even my wife likes it....now were getting somewhere.

mark


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## Mark Evans (22 Aug 2008)

a couple of better pics of the same scene...i know, i know boring.

and soon i'll have some dwarf riccia to add to the scape....


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## Mark Evans (22 Aug 2008)

and another, practising with colour and contrast.


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## ceg4048 (22 Aug 2008)

Looking great Mark,
                       Hey you know it's strange but that doesn't look like Limnophilia aromatica. It looks much more like Pogostemon stelleta. L. aromatica normally is fairly restrained as regards aerial root production whereas stellata is a hooligan and freely throws out thick white roots. You can see aromatica and see some comparisons to stelleta in this thread: Limnophila aromatica - The Rice Paddy Herb

Cheers,


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## Mark Evans (22 Aug 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Looking great Mark,



thanks Clive, its turning into something that i really like. im just getting so inspired now. ive checked out your tank mate and im unsure myself. i think because John told me it was l aromatica i kinda go with it. im not so good with plant id at all. here's a couple more close up. i'll take some proper close ups tomorrow!

can you id from these?

BTW Clive you've got a stunner (tank)   allot to be said for EI i reckon.


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## Wayney (22 Aug 2008)

Mark, it's deffo L Aromatica that you have there, I was with John when he bought it from TGM .

Tanks looking really sweet now m8, everything looks lush


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## LondonDragon (22 Aug 2008)

It looks like L. Aromatica to me too, could always send you a couple of stems Mark for comparisson 
By the way photos look great as always and nice tank


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## ceg4048 (23 Aug 2008)

Well, the ayes seem to have it. I guess John knows what he sent and cichlidsrgr8 evidently has corroborated. I've grown both and went though a very similar situation where I sent another member one specimen thinking it was the other. So this is why I have some doubts. It was only when I raised both simultaneously in an EI tank that I was able to tell the difference, so nutrient levels have an effect on appearance. I imagine there are also morphological differences depending on the supplier. 
In a low-to-moderately dosed tank they look very similar but in a heavily dosed tank they are night and day. This difference is clear at the beginning where they are very different submersed form.

Here is P. Stelleta (Eustralis) only a week or two after submersion. The Tropica version of this plant has an emmersed form very similar to it's submersed state, with very spiky stelleto knife shaped leaves. The transition from one emmersed to the submersed is practiacally seamless. 





On the other hand aromatica's emmersed form looks nothing like its submersed form. The only photo I have that shows the difference in the two forms is this one. You can see in the middle a couple of emmersed shoots surrounded by a forest of the submersed stems. There is a radical difference and it takes ages to go from one to the other. So the question might be: what did the plant look like at purchase? If it was already spiky it could be stelleta. But because of the difficulty in transition of this plant, vendors often sell aromatica in the submersed state, so the appearance at purchase is by no means definitive.





As both plants grow in an EI tank their differences become magnified. P. stelleta's stem becomes engorged and it throws out annoying white aerial roots. The leaves can grow to 3 inches which means a crown diameter of up to 6 inches or more. On the the surface of the leaves, Tropica's stelleta tends to be smooth with a pronounced pale vein running down bisecting the span of the older leaves. Younger leaves at the crown are more upright, only flattening out to the horizontal as they are eclipsed by newer growth above.





On the other hand, I've not seen aromatica leaves much longer than and inch or so meaning a crown diameter of a 2 to 3 inches. Again, that might be just due to my supplier and there may be aromatica versions which grow wider crowns. L. aromatica has a waffled leaf surface texture, and the leaves have a more horizontal posture at the crown during the earlier hours of the photoperiod. Both quickly close up to the vertical near the end of the photoperiod so the comparisons depend on what time of day they are observed.






Cheers,


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## JamesC (23 Aug 2008)

Just to add to the confusion there are many different forms of L. Aromatica. I had one some years ago that was very different to the Tropica variety. Didn't like it much at the time as it only had 3 leafs per node and so looked a bit sparse. Ditched it in favour of the tropica one, but now wished I'd kept it. I'll see if I've kept any old photo's of it later. if all the varieties above come from Tropica then they should all look pretty much the same.

James


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## Simon Dickenson (23 Aug 2008)

I agree with ceg, it is definitely Pogostemon stelleta. I have aromatica and stellata in my latest scape, take a look at my journal, the stellata is at the rear and the aromataca in front.

S


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## John Starkey (24 Aug 2008)

Hi All,firstly i will agree on one point the simularities are very much alike between P,stellata and L,aromatica, now from experience i have grown both in my present setup and i can assure you this l.aromatica is not the same as P,stellata maybe as James c said there are many different types of L,aromatica but the one i bought from TGM was a tropica variety and it was sold to me as L aromatica,Clive says that root growth from the stem is not normal in L,aromatica but if i have a true L,aromatica then i have lots of root growth from half way up the stems,hope this helps regards john


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

well guys, an interesting debate develops.

anyway, ive just come back from MA@eastbridgford and bought some more stems for the future scape.( see pic) a couple of red varieties. ive only tried one red variety before glandilosa i think...it died   

but that was pre- ADA AS co2 ,fert days so hopefully i'll see if i can grow these.i think these are easier ones


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

ludwigia can be funny sometimes. I could grow it but it always went out of shape


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## Simon Dickenson (24 Aug 2008)

sp. aromatica  should have a distinct sweet smell to it, sp. stellata  will not. This will be the key way to tell the difference between the two.


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

i forgot to add...ive also added 6 rosy tetras.


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

are we back onto this tank now?


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## TDI-line (24 Aug 2008)

I'm lost, which tank are we talking about...


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

this one of course. ive put 6 tetras into my big tank. not the other one

mark


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> this one of course. ive put 6 tetras into my big tank. not the other one
> 
> mark



are the tetras eventually going in this one then?


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

yes there staying in the big tank. and they will do in the future scape...i think. there kinda timid at the minute. if i dont like them i'll take them back.


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

> yes there staying in the big tank



but you just said above that we are still talking about this one, this is the sumatra driftwood scape  :?


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

yes thats right. i should rename this the nursery or something. ive 2 tanks...this and the henge. theres nothing in the henge yet....look into my eyes, not around my eyes..now, you'll believe anything i tell you.  

good old little britain


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

so this is about the rena? Whats with the premature journal then of the little arcadia? I think i am startoingt o get you know. In the future, dont mix 2 tanks, it is too confusing


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

if you look back i ended the small arcadia journal ages ago. and i actually eneded this one too. but people kept on posting so ive carried on to humour people


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> if you look back i ended the small arcadia journal ages ago. and i actually eneded this one too. but people kept on posting so ive carried on to humour people



i see, i usually just skim read   is this going ahead in the future? I mean, the arcadia?


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

just to confuse matters....maybe! i also have a 60 x 30 x 30 that im going to set up at my mums house. ive got the aquas capers madness disease now.  ive got to get a filter and lighting system for that tank. ive got some catching up to do regarding scaping skills and growing plants, as dan would say...happy times...or is it days?


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> just to confuse matters....maybe! i also have a 60 x 30 x 30 that im going to set up at my mums house. ive got the aquas capers madness disease now.  ive got to get a filter and lighting system for that tank. ive got some catching up to do regarding scaping skills and growing plants, as dan would say...happy times...or is it days?



are you doing the maintenance on that?


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> re you doing the maintenance on that?



yeh, weekly though. my mum can dose the tpn + and flourish excell daily and i'll trim weekly. she loves riccia, so this will be my take on a riccia tank. (i can here everyone say "nooooooooooooo")


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## Garuf (24 Aug 2008)

I think it's only me who hate riccia. Seriously can't stand the stuff. 
How are the tanks doing anyway? how's the harvesting going?


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

are you injecting CO2 or is that what the excel is for? Why dont you use easycarbo, it is the same but cheaper.


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> are you injecting CO2



yes pressurised. i'll have 3 pressurised systems then  :? it's an expensive hobby



			
				aaronnorth said:
			
		

> Why dont you use easycarbo,



actually ive just ordered some from AE to try. george put me onto the use of this stuff when i first statred the henge. im sure its helped. remember i only have 1 otto in that tank now and its been like that for about 7 or 8 weeks without any algae issues, maybe the excell works wonders or ive got a stable eco system, or both.


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
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have you run out of room in your house then   or does your mum just want one?


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## Mark Evans (24 Aug 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> have you run out of room in your house then  or does your mum just want one?



bit of both   mum wants one. ive got someone else that wants me to set up a tank for them too. :? it's going to be mayhem!


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## aaronnorth (24 Aug 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
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set up a business  8)


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## Mark Evans (27 Aug 2008)

and another addition....thanks to aaron, for this dwarf riccia.


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## aaronnorth (27 Aug 2008)

i am glad i have got id of it just because of the mess it creates, i still have bits of it floating around now


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## Mark Evans (3 Sep 2008)

can someone tell if trimming P. Stelleta is the same as any other stem? as you can see its taken over the tank. can i trim it halfway like any other stem? will it produce  new shoots? i want to keep cuttings etc ready for the big rescape.

the tank looks a mess but then it was never designed in the first place.


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## ceg4048 (3 Sep 2008)

Yep,
     Prune as usual. Sometimes the stem rots after pruning and replanting so it might be useful to let the cut stem float for a while.

Cheers,


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## Mark Evans (3 Sep 2008)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Prune as usual. Sometimes the stem rots after pruning and replanting so it might be useful to let the cut stem float for a while.



thanks clive, but can i leave the original stem planted and new growth come off that? like im doing in the henge. just trimming and letting it bush?


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## ceg4048 (3 Sep 2008)

Yeah, pretty much all stems behave this way. New growth will grow from the cut point and it can start to get unruly, and I mean completely obnoxious. Believe it or not these are all branches from one plant and this frame covers a 20 inch by 20 inch area. Many get fed up with stelleta. Somewhere on the planet there must be a version that is civilized. The main "trunk" of this plant got to the diameter of a 1P coin before I got disgusted and ripped it out. Anyway this is the only real downside of EI but I guess that's why they invented scissors.





Cheers,


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## aaronnorth (3 Sep 2008)

nice use of riccia, looks good sloping down in that effect


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## Mark Evans (3 Sep 2008)

thanks clive, again

yeh im starting to think the amount ive got will double in no time. and that the stems have a thick stem.
 i don't think i'll put so much in to the next set-up. i guess that's why im using this tank to experiment before i decide on what plants im going to use.


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## Mark Evans (5 Sep 2008)

i visited MA @ cambridge (after work) today and bought 5 amano shrimp for the henge. after looking around this awsome (probably the best MA) shop i saw a tank with some stunning angels in. with my excitment i bought 3 there and then....some white ones, i didnt even ask there names. im going back next week to get some black ones which are also stunning.

heres some quick snaps, theyve settled in amazingly. its added (i think) a totally different feel to the tank, im really looking forward to rescaping now


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## jay (5 Sep 2008)

Awwww they so sweet Mark. Be good when you get another 3 or so, get a nice shoal up and running. Will disperse any aggression when they get older too.


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## LondonDragon (5 Sep 2008)

Angels looking awsome Mark  congrats
I had a bad experience with Angels in the past, purchased 3 and they kept fighting all the time, in the end one had no eyes and the others in pretty bad shape, they all died eventually and that was the first and last time I will buy Angels lol


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## Garuf (5 Sep 2008)

"The valley of ghosts." would be a suitable scape title. Beautiful fish those.


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## Mark Evans (6 Sep 2008)

Garuf said:
			
		

> The valley of ghosts." would be a suitable scape title. Beautiful fish those.



what a great  name mate. i'll consider and scape around that next  



			
				LondonDragon said:
			
		

> had a bad experience with Angels in the past, purchased 3 and they kept fighting all the time,



im getting 3 more next week. they had some stunning black ones too.



			
				jay said:
			
		

> Awwww they so sweet Mark.


yep, when i saw them i thought, i gota have those!


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## Mark Evans (6 Sep 2008)

im so loving these angels!    so photogenic too.

defo getting some more on monday after work. another pic of "the valley of ghosts"  nice one garuf


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## aaronnorth (6 Sep 2008)

nice angels, i have always wanted to keep them but everytime i get some fish i always forget about them


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## jay (7 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> nice angels, i have always wanted to keep them but everytime i get some fish i always forget about them



Should probably try and break that habit


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## aaronnorth (7 Sep 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
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> 
> ...




i always go left when i get into the shop and angels are right at the other end, so i always miss them ( i am very impatient.)


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## PM (8 Sep 2008)

Won't they get REALLY big?

They are beautiful though


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## Brenmuk (8 Sep 2008)

I love angel fish and the ones you have look great with the deep lush planted backdrop of your tank! Great


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## Mark Evans (8 Sep 2008)

just introducing the final 3   

thanks for the kind words everyone. pics soon....ys, more pics.


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## Mark Evans (8 Sep 2008)

well there in now and settling in. it appears 2 of the 3 from last week have paired off. they swim together all the time now.









heres all 6. hopefully in a couple of days they'll
 all be swimming more freely 





oh, and i dont really know much about these but ive noticed there eating my snails frequently


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## Ark (8 Sep 2008)

look like albino angels to me..

how much were they each..

Ark


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## Ray (8 Sep 2008)

Very nice, I'm glad you went for more white ones and not black - much more classy.  Albino would be with red eyes - so these are not albino but white.  This is just as well because one of the AGA judges is always saying she hates albino fish in her comments!


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## Thomas McMillan (8 Sep 2008)

I thought you were gonna get black ones?


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## PM (8 Sep 2008)

PM said:
			
		

> Won't they get REALLY big?



?


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## Ark (8 Sep 2008)

yes tahnks ray i was searching albino angels on the net and seen theyre eyes

 think their platinum angels theres some in my local trade that i am interested in


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## Mark Evans (9 Sep 2008)

there platinum angels.



			
				PM said:
			
		

> Won't they get REALLY big?



20cm in height. by which time i'll have a 150cm tank   

for the six they cost Â£42 which for the amazing condition there in, was, i thought pretty good.


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## Ark (9 Sep 2008)

6 for Â£42 is cheap the ones i found are 6 for Â£75 but they are quite big


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## jay (9 Sep 2008)

Really nice Mark. Guess the 'ghost' look has really tickled you  

Glad you didn't go for the black ones, don't think they would look that great in your tank... in hindsight anyway


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## Dave Spencer (9 Sep 2008)

I`ve been enjoying this tank without making comment for a while now, Mark, but am not overly keen on your choice of fish for this scape. The fish could become too dominant, and out of balance with the rest of the look, plus I am not too big a fan of hybrid fish myself.

Still, it`s your money and your choice. You certainly are mastering the art of aquascaping!

Dave.


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## Mark Evans (9 Sep 2008)

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> I`ve been enjoying this tank without making comment for a while now, Mark, but am not overly keen on your choice of fish for this scape. The fish could become too dominant, and out of balance with the rest of the look, plus I am not too big a fan of hybrid fish myself.



fair comment dave.   these fish  were not specifically for this scape though. there for the next scape. i do see your point though. i was thinking the same thing realy this morning....when i change the scape agian (not this time around) i dont want to incorporate these fish, so i guess in the future i'll be selling them. 



			
				Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> You certainly are mastering the art of aquascaping!



very kind thing to say. allthough i dont see it myself. it apears ive made many an error in the henge, and ive only chucked this scape together and then it was never a scape just a holding tank that looks ok.

but still kind of you to think it   my first years scaping out of the way more to come


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## joyous214 (10 Sep 2008)

Looks good. Ive never had much luck with angel fish. I wish i did as that looks amazing.


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## Mark Evans (10 Sep 2008)

joyous214 said:
			
		

> Ive never had much luck with angel fish.



its still early days for me too.

ive had a trim of the stems. ive left the ones to the right as it creates a little area that the angels like to use. anyways heres some more pics of the angels. 

the first pic is a bit unlucky cus i was shooting at 2.8 hence the fish going out of focus. oh well....
















thast it for angel photos. soon it will be total rescape time


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## aaronnorth (10 Sep 2008)

> 2.8



what do you shoot at?


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## Mark Evans (10 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> what do you shoot at?



pigeons   

f2.8. i like the depth it gives, but the downfall is it's limitations with depth of field. look at the six angels...the first one in focus and as they all sit at different depths (can be as narrow as a cm) the others are out of focus which is not pleasing. i shouldn't of posted the pic really  :?


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## aaronnorth (10 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 thats a good one.

The bigger the aperture does the DOF increase?


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

and another re arrangement....

ive only just done it so let the plants establish again.


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

looking nice and healthy Mark,  what substrate do you have in there?

This angels look even better with a FTS


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## joyous214 (11 Sep 2008)

angels look great. Good luck.


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> with a FTS



fts? whats this mean


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




full tank shot.


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> full tank shot.



ahhh, thanks


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you learn something new everyday!


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

YNWT...


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> YNWT...



 :?: 

I have heard of NWT (north west territories)


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> you learn something new everyday!





			
				saintly said:
			
		

> YNWT...


Your Not Wrong There!    its a new one....now!


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## aaronnorth (11 Sep 2008)

Ok


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## Mark Evans (11 Sep 2008)

ive deleted the last pic by accident. heres another with clear water.


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## Wayney (11 Sep 2008)

Looking really good there Mark, luvvin the Angels as well  .....Is that riccia at the front?


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## joyous214 (12 Sep 2008)

oohhhh wow nice


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## a1Matt (12 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> aaronnorth said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



rotflmao


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## Graeme Edwards (12 Sep 2008)

Nice one saintly. Interesting choice of Angel's . They look like ghost lost in the forest. As far as a compotion or critique point of view goes, I dont think they work in that scape. As afar as a hobbiest goes, If you like them, then enjoy them.

Nice one.


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## Garuf (12 Sep 2008)

I know exactly what Graeme is saying, I'd love to see more, much more wood in there. I think that would help it look even more special.
I personally love the fish choice and I'm very jealous, the scape just needs more wood for it to sit right in my minds eye as to what an angel scape would be.


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## jay (13 Sep 2008)

I think they really suit it perfectly. The way they're almost glowing, compliments the riccia.
Agree with Garuf about wood in there though... some nice branches poking out from the stems maybe. Perhaps some riccia clumps on them to add more to the middle of the tank.

Really do like it Mark, and love those angels!! About the only time I've liked a colour morph in a planted tank.


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## Tom (13 Sep 2008)

Weirdly enough, I think the Angels are OK too. As colour morphs go, they seem to be quite good quality, nice finnage as opposed to being bred in cramped conditions with stunted fins that is all too common. 

Personally, (but I know doesn't really fit the theme) I'd like to see some bold rock work in there. Particularly protruding out from some of the darker areas, the gaps between planting. Then some branchy wood coming round the rocks.

Tom


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## Mark Evans (13 Sep 2008)

wow thanks fellas. i didnt realise that angels were on the "not so commonly used list"    i just saw them and liked them. you guys like them too, so i feel happy that ive put them to good use at least   

ive got some more wood (sumatra) i know the thread is called this but theres been some confusion. anyway, updates soon.


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## Ark (14 Sep 2008)

what sand do you us ein your scapes as im trying to find a nice coloured sand like that


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## Mark Evans (14 Sep 2008)

i have some ada bright sand that i have not yet used. in this setup ive used (and the henge) GEO systems substrate. extra fine brown river gravel from maidenhead aquatics. for Â£15 you get roughly twice as much than ADA at less than half the price ....i think? any hows its good stuff. if id of said it was ADA you wouldnt know the difference.

heres a pic of the bag.....







heres a pic of the angels when you go to feed them. its great how they que up.


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## deMastro (14 Sep 2008)

Those are beautiful angels!   

They must have cost alot...


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## Mark Evans (14 Sep 2008)

Â£42 for 6. sshhh....dont tell my wife


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## jay (14 Sep 2008)

Whats the plant along the sand path, just beyond the riccia?


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## Mark Evans (14 Sep 2008)

jay said:
			
		

> Whats the plant along the sand path, just beyond the riccia?



i cant remember   it was from MA and is an aquafleur variety but i cant remember what its called. i just see a plant and buy it with out regard for care needs. if it survives all well and good if not i dont get it again. this is what this tank is all about for me. seeing what i can grow and what i cant.


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## aaronnorth (14 Sep 2008)

are you on about the fine leaved stem plant?

looks like didiplis diandra to me.


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## joyous214 (15 Sep 2008)

wow looks great i love the white angle fish and the neons look great together


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## LondonDragon (15 Sep 2008)

Looking great Mark, although not a fan of Angels those do look very good in the scape  congrats


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## jay (15 Sep 2008)

aaronnorth said:
			
		

> are you on about the fine leaved stem plant?
> 
> looks like didiplis diandra to me.



Thats what I was guessing, just mine has its emergent leaves still. Good call Aaron!!

Good outlook towards plants there Mark, think w should all be more outgoing with plant choice, even when told they're difficult that usually is past down from before it became reletively easy to go hi-tech. With all the light and nutrients available to us now, and substrates, then most plants can be grown by most people. Give it all a go!!!


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## Mark Evans (16 Sep 2008)

mmm....my p stellata is starting to take a red hue now which is looking fab.





there will be more wood going in at the weekend!


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## jay (16 Sep 2008)

That is nice. Been looking for a palm type plant like that... might be a bit big for my tank though.
Looks real good in yours, nice how it stretches out into the mid/foreground.


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## sari (25 Sep 2008)

Fab tank and I love the angels, I have a soft spot for them myself! Any updates yet?


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## Mark Evans (25 Sep 2008)

thanks sari. gd and bad news really. bad news...ve lost an angel,  seemed to get bullied by the other 5 and over a couple of days it just gave up. the other 5 are getting very active, willing to feed whenever i go near the tank. ive also lost about 6 embers, im guessing the angels have eaten them  :? 

anyhow ive added 2 Anubias barteri var. nana just to see what they look like. stupid of me really because im not going to use them in the next scape. also the angels will be going. so look out peeps for plants and fish on the sale/swap section. ive commented before on the floating hc i have which just keeps growing and growing.

ive also finaly decided on what im going to attempt come scape time   

cheers


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## jay (25 Sep 2008)

saintly said:
			
		

> thanks sari. gd and bad news really. bad news...ve lost an angel,  seemed to get bullied by the other 5 and over a couple of days it just gave up. the other 5 are getting very active, willing to feed whenever i go near the tank. ive also lost about 6 embers, im guessing the angels have eaten them  :?
> 
> cheers



Nature at its most cruel.


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## Mark Evans (26 Sep 2008)

well, ive been given the all clear for a trip to the green machine tommorrow   re scape coming soon. im gona blow a fortune!


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## Mark Evans (27 Sep 2008)

well sadly folks this scape is now officially over    its been a great learning curve from the iwagumi set up right at the beginning through to the untidy planting at the end of its life. hopefully tomorrow afternoon all the fish will go to MA @ east bridgford and i can empty it of its content. look for a new journal starting soon.

thanks to absolutely  everyone who's commented and contributed to this scape.


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