# Shrimp and Substrate Questions



## Otto72 (22 Jun 2012)

I was going to go for ADA Aquasoil Amazonia Powder for three shrimp tanks I have planned (RCS, CRS and maybe Blue Bolt) then I read a little more about this soil and heard that after about a years use in the tank it turns into a muddy mush. Is this true? 

Also reading more on ADA Aquasoil it apparantly buffers the water PH down to 6.8, if this ok for CRS and more delicate shrimp or does it need to be lower than this? 

Whats PH result would you end up with if you started a tank with ADA Aquasoil and RO Water?

I also seen these substrates available for shrimp tanks, anyone know if they are any good and anyone tried these?
and do they also lower the PH to a shrimp safe level?

Fluval Shrimp Stratum 






EBI Gold Shrimp Substrate





Shirakura Red Bee Sand 





and finally a few noob questions   

Do RCS do ok in similar PH levels to CRS?

I understand that RO water is best used for CRS, but would there be any benefits of using RO water for RCS too?


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## Alastair (22 Jun 2012)

The new Ada Amazonia was manufactured to prevent this turning to mud after a year, I believe it was common with the Amazonia 1 or 2.  and my ph from tap is 7 but 6 in the tank with the new ada. I've read the ebi can last up to 18 months and is perfect for shrimp. Reasonable price too but then there's always the columbo florabase also 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## basil (23 Jun 2012)

I'll throw this in, just to confuse the issue some more!!

Have you considered that you might not actually need an active substrate?! What are you water param's as it comes out of the tap please?

Mike.


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## Otto72 (23 Jun 2012)

I havn't setup or purchased everthing I need as yet, still gathering information atm, i'll buy a test kit on monday and find out. I'm pretty sure the water in my area is very hard though. I do think though even for cosmetic reasons these substrates above look nicer than sand or inert substrates.


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## Iain Sutherland (23 Jun 2012)

you can find your water reading from your water suppliers website.  test kits are just guess kits, save your money.
i use stratum and like it but plants dont seem keen to root in it


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## Otto72 (25 Jun 2012)

I just looked up my tap water quality here https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs% ... CTV038.pdf (only opens in Chrome for some reason)

Water Supply Zone: Hemel Hempstead (TV038)
Period: 01 January 2010 to 31 December 2010 < not as recent as I was hoping for   





I've highlighted the things I have heard of blue and the green I highlighted as I wasn't sure what that one was.
Also I'm very confused how to actually get the readings from this chart, could anyone here simplify it for me?

Also some other things that scared me slightly when I was looking at this chart   





Arsenic and Cyanide??? what the hell? arn't these poisons?

Now the next one is Copper:





I thought Copper was a big no in the Shrimp world yet people use tap water for their Shrimp maybe not even knowing that there's copper in the water! Would it not be better to use RO water even when you start a tank with RCS?

and finally: 





I'm very confused by this PDF Chart to get the readings I'm after, wheres the GH KH etc? Also PH 6.5-10?? not accurate enough readings? Would it be better just to buy an expensive quality test kit and test it myself or can you guys understand this from the pdf link here https://central.veoliawater.co.uk/docs% ... CTV038.pdf (only opens in Chrome for some reason)

Any help on this much appreciated


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## ceg4048 (26 Jun 2012)

Hello,
        Probably you should avoid becoming hysterical about water quality. According to that report the water seems to be quite hard as shown on page 1 under the parameter "Hardness (Total)" with a mean value of 310 ppm CaCO3 (equivalent). That means the GH in degrees German Hardness is 310/17.8 = 17 dGH.

Ammonium levels are reported to be measured at less that 0.04ppm which is well below the toxic levels at pH below 7.

The Nitrate levels average 20ppm, which in a planted tank is good news. I see no reason to panic about that at all. The Nitrite levels have a mean measure value of less than 0.008ppm which is very much lower than toxic levels. I have no idea what they are on about with the parameter "Nitrite Nitrate Formula" but again, I don't think this is anything to worry about.



			
				Otto72 said:
			
		

> Also some other things that scared me slightly when I was looking at this chart
> Arsenic and Cyanide??? what the hell? arn't these poisons?


Yes, but so what? The Arsenic measured value is less than 1 part per billion, which is 1000X lower than a concentration of 1 ppm. People don't realize that they are putting more toxic waste in their tanks simply by feeding their fish. The food decays if left uneaten and if eaten it returns to the water by way of fecal and uric waste which poisons the water much more than these reported toxins.

The copper measures a mean value of less than 0.1 ppm. This is approximately the same value as dosed with micronutrient fertilizers.



			
				Otto72 said:
			
		

> I'm very confused by this PDF Chart to get the readings I'm after, wheres the GH KH etc? Also PH 6.5-10?? not accurate enough readings? Would it be better just to buy an expensive quality test kit and test it myself


You are not interpreting the data correctly at all. It is clearly stated at the top of the chart the number of samples that were measured. In the case of pH, measurement samples were taken at 52 different locations within the municipal zone. The minimum value measured at the time was 6.0 and the highest value measured 7.4. EU regulations prescribe that drinking water pH should measure between 6.5 and 10. That's what the column PCV means-Prescribed Concentration Value. During their tests they found that 1 location exceeded the prescribe value. That's what the 1 means in the column labeled "No. of Samples>PCV".

In this report the Alkalinity is clearly listed on the first row, on page 1 labeled "Customer Parameters". This shows a mean value of 314 ppm bicarbonate (equivalent) which is really inconvenient. I guess we have to assume that either the buffering in the water is due primarily to Bicarbonate or that they have already converted the Carbonate buffering to Bicarbonate equivalent.
The conversion equations are:
1)  Bicarbonate Alkalinity as CaCO3 (mg/L) = 0.82 x Bicarbonate Alkalinity as HCO3- (mg/L)
2)  dKH =  Alkalinity as CaCO3 (mg/L) / 17.9

So, 
Bicarbonate Alkalinity as CaCO3 (mg/L) = 0.82 x 314 = 257 mg/L
dKH = 257mg/L / 17.9 = 14.4 dKH

Cheers,


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## Otto72 (27 Jun 2012)

thankyou for making it a little clearer for me, sorry if I sounded a bit thick but I never seen one of those charts before


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## dfektor (7 Jun 2013)

Lovely bit of necro!!!

BOT my question is.... do these "shrimp substrates" benefit shrimp? and what is the cheaper alternatives?


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

The active shrimp soils buffer the ph to the preferred slightly acidic end of the ph scale, as well as gh/kh which makes them the soil of choice for some species such as crs / cbs bee. However, if you plan to keep shrimp that prefer the other end of the ph scale such as the neocardina sp such as cherries, or even tigers then you are probably better using an inert substrate and adjusting the ph up. Otherwise, your not really benefitting from the properties that active substrates offer. Im playing around with good old Dorset pea gravel at the moment for my neo's, will let you know how I get on.


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## jojouk (8 Jun 2013)

Interested too in substrate choice  I was goon to go for the Ebi, but then my lfs have florabase in stock...


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

Ebi is great, I have it in all my bee tanks. The water is bang crystal clear from day 1 and it doesn't leach ammonia. My tap water is a tickle under 7 and it buffers my ph to a nudge over 6. Great for bees, but neo's don't like it. So I'd say, decide on what shrimp you want before choosing a substrate.


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

Just my own experience though, not the law!!


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## jojouk (8 Jun 2013)

It's for crystal reds, and my tap ph is just over 7, so need an active substrate to bring it down


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

look no further than Ebi gold then. The only downside is its relatively short lifespan.


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## jojouk (8 Jun 2013)

Thanks for the input  Roll on pay day!

Another question, I have a little 18l tank that im going to be using it in, how much do you think I would need? I would like a bit of height at the back.


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## dfektor (8 Jun 2013)

I co-own a 9000ltr per day RO setup and premise so all my water is sorted pretty much sorted......right?


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

RO is dead water, unless you add something back into it the shrimp will die. Do you have a commercial premises with shrimp stocked in this set up?


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

Jojo - are you able to stretch to a bigger tank? 18l is a tad on the wee size, which will make it hard for you to keep stable water parameters. Ideally 30l or more if possible?


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## jojouk (8 Jun 2013)

I kinda already bought it...99p on eBay, couldn't resist.

However I do have another cubed tank, that's 27 litres, so I could put the cherries in the 18l tank, then have the crystals in the 27l? 

The 18l is a nicer shape tho.


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## basil (8 Jun 2013)

Yup, the 27l is the one for the crystals really. Need to make it shrimp friendly though. What filter have you got in there?


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## jojouk (8 Jun 2013)

Yeah it's all shrimp friendly already, it's where they are living at the moment, but using an inert substrate, so not ideal conditions. Want them happy and breeding


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