# urgent help needed , forced switch to low tech



## plantnoob (3 Jul 2013)

been fighting co2 for ages now , and had been considering going low tech anyway . algae infestations etc doing my head in . whilst just fiddling with my reactor i managed to break it . so that was the last straw . co2 is disconnected , fish are in a temporary home , tank is being drained , algae affected plants will be either trimmed down or discarded , substrate is coming out and getting a thourough wash , reflectors have been removed . this will leave me with 2x24w t5s over a non co2 injected tank , circa 1.4wpg . should i reduce to 1 tube initially as the plants adjust ( i REALLY dont want to be fighting algae again .)

any help gratefully received


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## oldbloke (3 Jul 2013)

I'm on 2 T5 14w for 8 hours over a 30x18x11. I _think_ it's just a bit too much so I've just reduced the time by 1 hour.


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## sciencefiction (3 Jul 2013)

> should i reduce to 1 tube initially as the plants adjust


 
It's a good idea.



> substrate is coming out and getting a thourough wash


I wouldn't. Because in a low tech the debris and decomposition of it is important to nutritient and CO2 levels. If it wasn't such a fast swap, I'd advise to use soil base mixed with some sort of clay for more CEC. Plants really grow well with little input.


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## plantnoob (3 Jul 2013)

did it as a precaution due to hair algae at substrate level when high tech . syphoned off the top layer and washing the rsst to remove as many algae spores as possible . i can always put some root tabs in to boost nutrients back up


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## sciencefiction (3 Jul 2013)

It's not just the nutritients, but all the good diversity of bacteria too that is in the substrate, otherwise you may risk unbalancing the tank even further, but that's just how I see it.  Algae spores won't do a thing when the conditions aren't right. I've moved plants from an algae tank to a non-algae tank and the algae just dies back and never takes off in the healthy tank.
 You may have seen Big Tom's or Alistair's low tech tanks both with a soil substrate. I started one of these recently enough too and I am amazed by how well plants grow without CO2, just the CO2 created at the soil layer by decomposition. Mine isn't the best example as I did a bad job scaping it,  but the plants are very healthy and you can have a look at it's current state on the link below. I updated the progress a few days ago.

The "Disaster" | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## plantnoob (3 Jul 2013)

ideally id be starting from scratch , but i just gotta try and run with it as ive got it for now . ie use the existing ada amazonia . as luck would have it i had only taken out and washed half of it , so i have stopped that . fortunately all the plants ive got should do ok in a low tech.


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## faizal (3 Jul 2013)

Hi. I am truly sorry about the troubles that you are facing. As mentioned a single T5 should be okay but it might be a better idea if you could somehow raise the light too. Also keeping the photoperiod for about 2-3 hours for the first 3 weeks might help the plants to transition into the non co2 environment with lesser stress.


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## plantnoob (3 Jul 2013)

, thank you , although i am down i am not out . i will still have a nice planted tank , but il do it the slower low tech way . lights are fixed into the hood , so i cant raise them , but i will remove 1 tube and cut the photoperiod down for the initial transition. am i right in thinking that i dont need as much flow now im low tech ? and that i can still use my ei starter kit from APF , but just at a lesser degree ?


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## sciencefiction (3 Jul 2013)

> am i right in thinking that i dont need as much flow now im low tech


 I use just as much flow in my low techs, around 10x. It still needs flow to distribute the nutritients and co2 around the tank efficiently.


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## plantnoob (3 Jul 2013)

ive got my 1400lph circulation pump going in there , but not at full chat .


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## Tim Harrison (4 Jul 2013)

I think there is a tendency to over complicate, and to be pulled in various directions by differing advice. Just keep it simple. IME it is best to start afresh. Clean all your substrate. Use 1 bulb; start with 6hrs a day and increase the photoperiod from there. Your existing flow is fine. Plant densely, and don't worry too much about stressing your plants. There is bound to be some die off and some will not do so well anyway, it just gives you an opportunity to experiment with different species.

If you've got a mature filter you needn't worry about destroying bacteria colonies...so give it a good clean. The existing bacteria will be fine unless you sterilize your filter media and substrate. Anyway, bacteria will quickly recolonize via plant root inoculation etc. The very short reproductive period of bacteria and its method of reproduction - binary fission - will do the rest.

There is more to algae control than lighting. Good tank husbandry plays an important role too. Whilst it is possible to maintain a low-energy tank the "Walstad way" it is sometimes difficult to strike the right balance between inputs and outputs especially in a small tank with a high bioload, for example. There are no hard and fast rules. That is why I advocate the hybrid-energy method The Soil Substrate Planted Tank - A How to Guide | UK Aquatic Plant Society.

For instance, if you're using old Amazonia, and not soil, I'd advocate water column dosing about 1/10th EI will do using something like TNC complete.


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## dw1305 (4 Jul 2013)

plantnoob said:


> but i will remove 1 tube and cut the photoperiod down for the initial transition. am i right in thinking that i dont need as much flow now im low tech ? and that i can still use my ei starter kit from APF , but just at a lesser degree ?


I think that is an option. I don't worry too much about flow or light, I just have lots of plants.

cheers Darrel


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

thanks for the great advice troi .  now that i am over the initial p---ed off feeling i had last night , i am actually relishing the thought of going low tech . the more i read , the more it appeals , especially with my highly eratic work schedule .until recently i had always kept cichlids , and never planted a tank , so i am more a fish keeper than a gardener . i have always wanted a planted tank , but i want to be able to just sit back and enjoy the fish too. hasnt been the case so far as i have been getting to much stress from trying the high tech aproach. this could be a better sollution for me .  at the moment i am thinking about selling my reg/solenoid and drop checkers and using the money for some good low tech plants .  i will most likely keep my echinodorus bleheri , and anubias nana , and bulk out the tank with a couple of nice mother plants from AE for "instant impact" then get some crypts , moss etc and possibly some echinodorus tenelus . i need to have a read up on low tech plants 1st though so i can make some good choices . im off to take a read through the link you provided . no doubt lots more questions to follow


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

well that was such an inspiring article you wrote troi , that i have made it official and placed my co2 gear up for sale . i have a question re the mineralisation of the soil though . i already have the tank running with fish . could i do the mineralisation in a bucket so i can keep my fish , then just re-do the tank when its finished ?


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## sciencefiction (4 Jul 2013)

I did the mineralization following that thread below which is not done inside the tank.  You mineralize the soil by wet/dry cycles, like soak for a day, then dry completely for a whatever it takes and like that 4-5 time.

How-To: Mineralized Soil Substrate, by Aaron Talbot - Library - Aquatic Plant Central


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

thanks , ive bookmarked that . will come in handy when the time comes


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

im also thinking not to ever put the 2nd t5 tube back in , but instead to get a t8 ballast so it will be 2x20w t8 . 1.2wpg in old money 

edit: t8 tubes the right length for my roma 125 seem to all be 25w  , so would be 1.5wpg t8


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## Palm Tree (4 Jul 2013)

Defiantly better using T8 tubes, 50w would be perfect for that sized tank. I wouldn't be too tempted to buy expensive mother plants though, a LOT of cheap fast growing plants are the best thing to make sure algae never returns, _Elodea, Hygrophila_ etc. Nothing worse then spending big £££ on plants then having algae blooms, also bear in mind crypts will probably melt so there is no point buying large plants.


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

i was thinking more along the lines of a couple of big echinodorus mother plants , and then loads of small plants . going to try and find something other than crypts though


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## Tim Harrison (4 Jul 2013)

I have always placed critters straight in to newly set up soil substrate tanks, with and without a cycled filter, and so far I haven't had any problems. Diana Walstad has done/does the same. When I do plug a mature filter in to a new set up ammonia levels rise slightly for a few days before dropping off to zero. However, I'm always reluctant to suggest this method to others for obvious reasons.

This plant list should give you a good start:

_Anubias spp._
_Aponogeton natans_
_Aponogeton crispus_
_Bolbitis heudelotii_
_Cryptocoryne spp._
_Echinodorus spp. inc tenellus_
_Egeria densa_
_Fontinalis antipyretica_
_Hygrophilia spp._
_Lilaeopsis brasiliensis/novae-zelandiae_
_Ludwigia repens/natans_
_Microsorium pteropus. var._
_Pistia stratiotes_
_Salvinia auriculata_
_Vallisneria spp._
_Vesicularia dubyana_


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## plantnoob (4 Jul 2013)

i will deffinately be after an aponogeton crispus , some more anubias , an echinodorus ozelot "green" , some microsorium  , egeria densa and some moss . not sure what else . not really wanting to do crypts , although i might try a few . will have a look into the others in your list for sure . just need to get the co2 stuff sold , then i can crack on with it .


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