# Round Two



## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

I first set-up my TMC aquarium last year and journalled my few highs and many lows, but learnt a hell of a lot through my old journal titled "Aurora Aquatica". I still class myself as a bit of a noob when it comes to planted aquariums, but I hope that "Round Two" will be more successful than my first attempt.

*Aquarium*

TMC Signature 60x45x45
TMC Grey Cabinet
*Filtration*

Eheim Pro 3e 600T Thermo-Filter
Glass inflow and glass 'Violet' outflow
*Lighting*

TMC AquaRay GroBeam 1500 Ultima LED Tile
iQuatics Universal Hanging System 600mm
Lights on day of setup are 100% intensity for 6 hours, tile suspended 30cm from water surface
*CO2*

CO2Art Dual Stage Regulator (at this time this model is not yet on the market, it is the new top range model soon to be released that I was offered as replacement due to issues with my previous reg)
UP Inline Atomiser on the return hose
*Substrate*

Tropica Aquarium Soil
Unipac Fiji Fine Sand
Pea shingle for detailing
*Hardscape*

Granite river cobbles (at least I think its Granite)
Bogwood
*Ferts & delivery system*

Self mixed EI quantities
TMC Easi-Dose 2 pump auto doser
Due to system constraints, weekly macro and micro volumes divided by 7, dosed daily, Macro at 17:00, Micro at 05:00
*Flora*

Ceratopteris thalictroides
Limnophila sessiliflora
Hydrocotyle tripartita
Pogostemon erectus Tropica 1-2-Grow
Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' Tropica 1-2-Grow
Echinodorus quadricostatus
Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya' (Moved over from previous scape)
Anubias Barteri var. Nana (Moved over from previous scape)
Microsorum Trident (Moved over from previous scape)
Echinodorus Rose (Moved over from previous scape, but removed already, not enough space)
*Fauna*

7 Corydorus Sterbai
8 Ottocinclus
14 Ember Tetra
4 Amano Shrimp
Set-up details and pictures to follow soon, but not sure I will have time to get the pics sorted tonight. I'll try, but could be tomorrow. Thanks for reading!


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## alto (29 Feb 2016)

Did you completely redo the substrate?
 - I know you weren't pleased about the cloud factor you were experiencing with the 'Growth Substrate'


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

Hey Alto, yup, total clean out. Not only was the cloudiness an issue, but I just felt I wanted a substrate with more nutrients like an aquatic soil, even though I am dosing EI, some plants I had were supposedly big root feeders so I figured I would try something new, it was as much to experiment as anything else.


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

Ok, well here goes with some set-up info. Don't think I will get it all in tonight, but I will make a start. The rescape had been planned for some time, I knew I needed a free weekend to get on with it, so when my fiancé said that she was going to London for a weekend to meet up with her sister who had flown in from the US so they could go find her a wedding dress, BINGO! Free weekend where I could make as much mess as I liked and have it all clean before she got home on Sunday night!

The prep work started on Friday night, some essentials to sustain me for the task ahead.


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## alto (29 Feb 2016)

waiting for pictures


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## alto (29 Feb 2016)

great timing


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

The original plan was to have a rock only hardscape, I had spent weeks tinkering with different ideas and even bought all my plants based around the idea that I had. On the Thursday night I then changed my mind and decided I needed to get more height in to the scape, so got out the bogwood I had recently bought on eBay and started making new plans. I came up with a scape, so on the Friday night I had this wood, which had arrived wet and sealed in bags, but as I was not planning on using it, I had left it wrapped in plastic but not sealed. The panic was on, could I get it soaked and usable in time for Saturday!

I had bought a huge stock pot for this purpose a few weeks back, so in it went, got it boiling, but it was floating! Being a sailor (and a boy scout many years ago), I got out some string, tied a few knots, and ended up with this!



 

Lid went on, 2 hours of boiling with top ups for evaporation every now and then, plus top ups for me of Brew Dog Punk IPA and after the 2 hours, I flipped over the big bits so the other ends were submerged and boiled for another 2 hours. When I went to bed I transferred it to the large container I was intending to use to temporarily house the fish and left it soaking overnight. The following morning I needed that container for the fish, so figured it might as well go back in the pan. It ended up with a further 4 hours of boiling on Saturday morning but amazingly all stopped floating. Lucky!


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

On Saturday morning as the wood was floating it was time to set up the temporary fish house. A large flexible builders bucket, selected as it was cheap, tough and also dark so as not to stress the fish too much. I actually had to get two loads of washing done first thing as they were going to be living in the kitchen all day and I didn't want the noise and vibration from the washing machine going while they were in there! Real life gets in the way of aquascaping sometimes! This was filled with 75% tank water and 25% tap water. I had done a 50% water change on the tank on Tuesday and then a 25% change on Friday night, so I was hopefully bringing them closer and closer to tap conditions.



 

I now started to try and move fish over, but it was not easy. I ended up removing the bogwood that was in the old scape and putting that in the holding tank for hiding places. I then removed all the plants from the tank to make it easier to catch the fish. After the fish were all moved over, I covered the holding tank as best I could, closed the blinds and switched off the lights to try and make it as dark as possible. Here the fish are all over...


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

The next task was the worst task of the entire day, even worse than trying to get Hydrocotyle Tripartita to stay planted in the soil, it was time to clean out the soggy sand and Tropica plant growth substrate mixture. Nightmare! This photo at the start was timed at 12:11.



 

And this photo all removed and cleaned and cleaned again and cleaned again, then flipped round, old backing removed and outside cleaned too, this pic is timed at 13:21. It was a crappy job.


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

Next task was the background, I got rid of the old aquarium backing and used a window tinting 100% blackout film, more designed for building windows. Much better, lets hope it does not come away at the edges like the other over time.


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## Wisey (29 Feb 2016)

I was now in good shape to crack on with the more interesting part of the days work, the new scape! Poly tile trimmed to the right size...


 

then I added egg crate as my rocks are REALLY heavy for their size and I wanted a good substantial base down to protect the glass.



 

Sorry to do this to you, but I am going to have to leave it there for tonight! I'll do my best to get the rest up tomorrow!


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## JPT1974 (29 Feb 2016)

Wow! Wisey sounds like a great set up. Can't wait for the photos and to see how you get on. I've been building and gathering for my first planted tank for a year now (sad I know, but I've actually enjoyed not rushing) I've bought an easi dose peri pump. There didn't seem to be many reviews out there and virtually nothing on YouTube. How have you got on with yours?


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## JPT1974 (29 Feb 2016)

You photos up loaded as I submitted my reply . Cool photos!! Look forward to the rest.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

JPT1974 said:


> Wow! Wisey sounds like a great set up. Can't wait for the photos and to see how you get on. I've been building and gathering for my first planted tank for a year now (sad I know, but I've actually enjoyed not rushing) I've bought an easi dose peri pump. There didn't seem to be many reviews out there and virtually nothing on YouTube. How have you got on with yours?



I bought the TMC pump as it said it was capable of up to 24 doses per day. I thought that would give me really granular control, but its actually a pain because it just means it either doses on the hour or it does not dose on the hour and you can't skip days, if you turn on an hour, then it doses on that hour 7 days a week. This obviously did not fit with the EI method, so I have resorted to dividing my EI dose by 7, dosing that every day, Macro at 17:00 and Micro at 05:00 to separate them as much as possible. It's not ideal and its annoying as I could have bought a cheaper dosing system that would have allowed me to get closer to the EI dosing method.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

Ok, so to continue the rescape, it was time for the hardscape and substrate to go in. River cobbles and bogwood went in, I also added some lawn edging to try and plug gaps. In the end the edging behind the cobbles was redundant and removed, but I did keep edging behind the bogwood as its uneven shape means it does not sit down flush with the base.

The river cobbles are really interesting, I believe they are granite and have some nice patterns in the strata. When they are dry they look grey, but with a bit of a brown sheen to them, almost like they have a thin coating of dust/mud on them. I washed them and that brown is not mud, it does not come off and when wet the stones actually look more brown than grey. This was unexpected, but in fact actually makes them match the sand colour more, so I was not disappointed.





The next task was to make some supports for the back to raise hardscape without using lots of expensive substrate and to try and give more stability than pure soil. I had bought a couple of small bags of cheap pea shingle, then pinched some new tights from my other half! The gravel had been pre-washed earlier in the week, so was divided in to the tights but with a little bit retained for doing some detailing on the sand. Once I made these up, I actually doubled up with another tight leg over the top to give me two layers for a bit more strength, then they were rinsed through again.





Then in to the tank with them. You can see that I also added smaller stones and then the pea shingle detailing on the sand at the front along with a small piece of bogwood for more detail.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

Next up my main height in the hardscape was added with a large piece of bogwood on the right hand side and I also added another river cobble on the left. With hindsight I should have made my pea shingle supports less firm, so that the items would sit down in to the shingle, rather than just sit on top. The one on the left was only big enough for the main stone and the one on the right left the wood a bit wobbly. I didn't have any more tights without going out shopping, so just decided to go with it and hope that once the soil was in it would all come together.





A side shot here shows what I mean about the wood just sitting on it, rather than really being supported by the shingle below.



 

This shot just has a different piece of bogwood that I switched out in the sand.


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## parotet (1 Mar 2016)

I love Brewdog beers, and especially the Punk IPA! 
(Just for mad homebrewers, they have recently shared all their recipes in their website)

Jordi


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

And then here we are with a front shot with the soil added and an extra river cobble at the back left. That cobble has turned out to be a pain as its not supported by the pea shingle and although small, its heavy stone, so it keeps sinking. I'll probably have to do something to build it up again in time.

You will notice that there are some tiny spots of algae on the front glass (also on the right side). These are still there from the previous scape, I had barely noticed them. I did try removal with some vinegar during the clean up but it was really stubborn. I still need to remove these, maybe a blade is the only way, but I am scared to use a blade on the front glass! Any suggestions?



 

Another piece of bogwood was added in the centre now it could be pushed in to the soil and the Anubias and Microsorum Trident was moved over. I think the Trident is going to be removed, it hardly had any leaves on from the CO2 issues in the last scape, it had just started to bounce back, but the leaves are all in different directions and the rhizome is all over the place, it does not fit well in the space it is in. My initial thought was plant it and see if it sorts itself out, but for the sake of a few pounds I might just order up a replacement that is nice and compact in a pot and fits in the gap well.



 

So a bit of a jump forward here, I was so busy planting that I didn't take any shots during this stage, so here we are now at the initial fill up.



 

The Hydrocotyle did not really have a place in the scape as it was ordered with the previous rock only hardscape in mind. I did plant a piece on the right and some more on the left as you can see above. As you see below I removed the bit on the right. The stuff on the left is not looking good but its keeping it going until I decide what I want to put there.

The FTS below is just after the fish are back in the tank.



 

And finally, after 12 long hours, my reward!


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

This has been one of the most pleasing things about the new scape, the behaviour of my fish. In the previous scape the Embers would be all over the place, now they sit together in a tight school most of the time, often over the sand at the front where there is more gentle flow. With the old spraybar set-up I think they got blasted at the front so all my fish just sat behind the bogwood all day unless they were being fed or the filter was off. Spraybars may be the most efficient way to get flow to the whole tank, but my fish are much happier in this set-up, so I hope that I can get good CO2 distribution with the violet pipe. More on my flow config in a later post...



 

My Ottos also used to hide at the back, now they seem much happier chilling at the front. They are also far more active during lights on. In the previous scape they hid at the back during lights on and just attached to the back glass, now they are hang on the front glass which is nice as I get to see them.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

A shot of some of the planting. As you can see my DC is lime green and thats just above my Pogostomon which I guess is probably going to be my most difficult plant. It gets good light there too.



 

And feeding time last night!


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

So last night I had a bit of work to do. Quite a few plants had come uprooted, mainly Cyrpts and the Alternanthera. I had also had problems when planting the Echinodorus Quadricostatus as the soil between the bogwood and river cobbles had significantly subsided after water was added and the plants were pushed in to the soil. Lesson learnt for the future, agitate the soil more when its dry to try and ensure that every single gap is filled. I guess it will always settle when it gets wet, but it was significantly lower here, but also lower where the Alternanthera was and some plants had floated.

I drained off 50% of the water to make it easier to work and then topped up soil where it seemed to need it. I replanted the crypts and also moved the crypts that were on the right hand side in front of the Ceratopteris thalictroides as I figure that will grow forwards to fill that space. All the Crypts are now in the same area. I also removed the Ech. Rose that had come over from the previous scape, it was going to get too big, the Limnophila sessiliflora should fill in that space and I didn't want it to throw out leaves that would shadow the Pogostemon erectus.

I also took some of the Hydrocotyle tripartita from its temporary home on the left and planted it between the Crypts and the Echinodorus quadricostatus. I love this plant so wanted it in somewhere, hopefully I can train this forwards to fill in that gap and come forward over the edge of the bogwood as it fills in.

I'm pretty sure the Trident is coming out, it just looks a mess at the moment. Here is the FTS as of last night with the changes made.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

So my flow configuration may not be very conventional. I went with the violet pipe as it pushes the flow downwards and having the 45 cm high tank I felt this was going to be important with my alternanthera and pogostomon low down. It seems to work well. The CO2 rich water comes out straight to the Althernanthera, it then hits the side glass and goes up as well as going to both sides, so the pogo gets CO2. The skimmer helps to the push water over the back towards the plants at the back and water also gently flows back over the front of the tank and the sand to the outflow pipe. Watching the bubbles move around I seem to basically have two oval loops of flow and the flow that comes round the back also goes behind the violet to the outflow pipe. I don't appear to have any dead spots, there are areas where flow is stronger than others, but hopefully no stagnant areas at all.

I actually had to turn the flow down on the filter, it was set to max with the spraybar, but max with the violet just stripped plants out the substrate. It's set higher than the standard out of the box flow rate, but a few notches down from max. I also turned the skimmer down from maximum to low as that was blasting the stems too hard at the back. I now get gentle flow through the back with movement in the plants, but the point upwards rather than being pushed in to the corner.

The violet pipe gives absolutely ZERO surface agitation. The difference this has made to getting a lime DC is amazing. In the old scape with the spraybar and some surface ripple it would take 3 hours from CO2 on to get the lime DC. I have not timed it in this scape, but its really fast. I got home from work last night and the DC was already lime green, I think well under 2 hours to go lime green now. I have therefore set-up an airstone and pump to give surface agitation overnight, its not on a timer yet, but will be moved on to a timer shortly. I just ordered an Eheim 100 pump to replace the TMC one. The TMC one is noisy and has twin outputs and is way more powerful than I need, so hoping the Eheim is quieter. 

I'll have to see how my plants get on once they settle, but for the last 2 hours of the photoperiod last night, every plant apart from the 1-2 Grow ones were pearling. I never saw any pearling in the last scape. I know that pearling is not a sign of plant health, but it was still nice to see it happen!

My 4 Amanos had gone missing straight after being introduced to the scape, but I assumed they were just hiding at the back as there are plenty of places to get out of the way. It turned out that all 4 of them were hanging out in the skimmer! The skimmer runs 24/7, so not sure if they were capable of getting out. They have only ever done this once before in the previous scape, they all went in together one day, but once I took them out they didn't do it again. I suspect they wanted somewhere to secure to hide after being moved around, but all seemed quite happy once released back in to the tank last night, so hoping they stay out now.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

This evening I had to get my hands wet as I had some re-planting to do again. Thankfully only one piece of Alternanthera tonight, I'm sure that is the Corys rooting around, but not actually caught them in the act yet. As I was in there I removed the Trident as it was looking a mess. I'm going to leave that gap for now and let things get established, but probably order up another Microsorum of some kind to go in there at a later date. I'm already planning to try a small carpet, probably just Monte Carlo, nothing too difficult. That area at the front left that has the Hydrocotyle at the moment will need something low growing, I want the Alternanthera to get established first, but think I will plant MC in that area, take it up the bank towards the Pogo at the back and all around the bogwood and up to the Alternanthera in time. All plans for later though, no rush.

My Limnophila Sess. is not doing very well. Some of you may have seen my separate thread about the poor plant I was sent by TGM:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/how-on-earth-do-i-plant-this.40078/

I keep getting leaf pieces floating all over the tank and bits of stems breaking off. I have managed to retain about 50% of what I managed to get from the pot, but its not in good condition. It's supposed to be easy and fast to grow, so just hoping I can get the few stems I have retained to take and then it should fill out in time. I'm kinda thinking I should have put the Limnophila where the Ceratopteris thalictroides is and vice versa, but we will see, maybe that is a transition I can make in time if the Limnophila takes off.


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## alto (1 Mar 2016)

Well done 
& very different scape than previous 

For the _H tripartita_ that you removed, perhaps add bits here & there (easy to remove later should you decide against it) - it can look very good trailing up/around wood

I'd not use a razor on glass for a bit of algae that is barely visible when tank is filled - it's very easy to scratch the glass (especially if there are imperfections in the razor blade), I find using the right "scrubby" works well with a bit of effort ... I have a few old & slightly battered Seachem ones (these were not cheap & eventually discontinued as everyone just complained about the price before even trying them out - amazing tank cleaners as they are very dense fibres & even construction ) ... you might try various microcloths, I have one of these & it's fantastic at cleaning the outside glass (I've not tried inside)


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> Well done
> & very different scape than previous
> 
> For the _H tripartita_ that you removed, perhaps add bits here & there (easy to remove later should you decide against it) - it can look very good trailing up/around wood
> ...



Haha, yeah, very different. I would like to think I have learnt a bit from previous mistakes! I'm still making mistakes, just different ones to last time I hope 

I'm keeping most of that H. Tripartita on the left there until things get established, see where I can fit bits in. I love the plant and want to try and incorporate it where I can. It will be a week or two until I want to put MC in that gap, so hopefully things have moved on by then, roots are established and plants are starting to put out new growth. I'm convinced that the Ech. Quadricostatus has put out the start of new leaves in just a few days, although it is meant to be a fairly fast grower so I guess I should not be surprised. You will see that I have picked a few plants that grow quickly in this scape, it helps with my lack of patience if I can see progress, hence the faster stems and things.


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

You know what Alto, I just went and sat in front of the tank and realised that rather than spend money on another Microsorum, I could just plant some of the H. Tripartita behind the bogwood and train it through the gap that has now been created. It would eventually merge with what is already planted at the front and could look really good growing up behind the Ech. Quadricostatus.


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## alto (1 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Lesson learnt for the future, agitate the soil more when its dry to try and ensure that every single gap is filled.


this is not easily done - I damp the soil by adding water to the substrate surface then planting etc
But if you have significant slope, you'll need to drain some of the water away afterwards (I've gotten rather adept at this  )
OTOH is you're still moving any hardscape about, this is most easily done while substrate is completely dry.

When you fill the tank, air trapped within the substrate must rise - it will displace plants etc - only way to completely avoid this trapped air is by dropping substrate into water pool ... not a very tidy option 



Wisey said:


> Ech. Quadricostatus.


This plant needs strong guidance else it takes over the world 

It will also show deficiencies quickly (at least in my very soft water)


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> This plant needs strong guidance else it takes over the world
> 
> It will also show deficiencies quickly (at least in my very soft water)



Interesting, I will have to be careful! To be honest, it had taken over the bag it arrived in! I ordered 3 plants following the plant in 3 rules, but really could have coped with less as each plant had runners with 2-3 more plants on it. I ended up planting the 3 main plants and two of the bigger plants from the runners, stuck one plant in the propagator to see what it would do in there and binned the rest. I'm happy to thin it out as it grows, but was attracted to something that will fill in quickly and the vibrant green in the pictures I saw online.

I also have soft water, about 2 german degrees here in Aberdeen. I did notice that a few of the leaves look to have the first signs of some melt, but I assume that this is the emmersed growth that will die back to be replaced by new submersed growth. Is that likely to be the case?


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## alto (1 Mar 2016)

Sounds likely - you can generally tell by placement of leaf, new leafs tend to come from inside the "rosette" (but then it also sends out runners etc)
Your light,CO2 & fertilizer regime sound very consistent so I'd expect it to do well

You might leave some of those Limnophila Sess. bits floating about & see if they send out roots/leafs


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## Wisey (1 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> You might leave some of those Limnophila Sess. bits floating about & see if they send out roots/leafs



I was concerned about them decaying and reducing water quality, so I have been scooping them out with a net and binning them! I actually e-mailed TGM just now with a picture of Lim Sess from the Tropica website and then the picture of the abomination that they chose for me, also pointing out how they wrapped it around a Crypt in a plastic pot, then wrapped it tightly in bubble wrap, so that crushed the stems in multiple places. I have planted it the best I can and have some stems left, but where it was crushed its just melting and then floating off. If they know anything about customer service, they would do well to send me a decent pot out.


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## alto (1 Mar 2016)

yes significant errors in the manner that shop chose to send this obviously submerse leaf plant out - when sent out by Tropica with emerse leafs, leaf structure is much sturdier & plant ships well - once it's gone over to submerse culture, leafs are very fragile ... any crushed stem areas will usually "melt" (decompose), so if possible trim with a razor or thin, sharp blade for best chances.

Not sure if you had any long enough bits that you could carefully remove leaf & then carefully slide stem deep into soil - those leaf nodes will easily form roots - & just leave a short length above substrate level (I'm thinking that if there's much stem length above substrate level, it will soon melt re structural damage)


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## Wisey (3 Mar 2016)

I got home last night and a lot of substrate had been pushed forwards from in front of the larger stone at the back left. It was all piled up on the bogwood or had overflowed down on to the sand. It seems that angling my violet pipe slightly towards the back to ensure my Pogo gets plenty of CO2 had created an effect where the water flow hits the big stone and pushes substrate forwards.

I had to get in there with a small paint brush, re-distribute as much substrate as possible back in to place, then add another 3 handfulls as I suspect it has subsided a bit more in that area. I then replanted three pieces of Alternanthera that had floated. I also reduced the filter flow by another two notches to try and reduce the impact on the substrate and moved the violet so it points directly across the tank.

I guess in time, once the plants are established, I might be able to increase the flow a little as the Alternanthera should be stronger and able to withstand it and will also block the flow from directly hitting the substrate. When I got up this morning the substrate was in the right place and no plants had floated, so hopefully it will be the same when I get home this evening.

My Eheim 100 air pump arrived yesterday and I set that up last night. What a difference compared to the TMC one! It's super silent, with the cabinet door shut all I can hear is the bubbles. Tonight's task is to get the cables and tubing routed correctly and get it set up on the timer so it comes on automatically at lights off.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (3 Mar 2016)

Looking good so far, subscribed.


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## Wisey (3 Mar 2016)

AverageWhiteBloke said:


> Looking good so far, subscribed.


Thank you!


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## roadmaster (3 Mar 2016)

I noted the time it took for drop checker to turn green/lime green in last set up, and now it takes less time?
Have you tried turning the gas on earlier?Say an hour or two before light's?


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## Wisey (3 Mar 2016)

roadmaster said:


> I noted the time it took for drop checker to turn green/lime green in last set up, and now it takes less time?
> Have you tried turning the gas on earlier?Say an hour or two before light's?



Hi Roadmaster, my gas turns on 2 hours before lights on. In my previous set-up it was dark green when the lights came on. I could have tweaked that to 2.5 or 3 hours to sort that out, but knew I was only running that scape for a few more weeks until the rescape weekend, so for the hassle of reprogramming the digital timer, I just left it as it was. What I am seeing now with zero surface agitation is that by lights on I have lime green, it's dropping easily in the 2 hours. I could probably experiment and shorten that period, but to be honest, for what it would save in CO2, I will probably just leave it as it is.


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## Wisey (3 Mar 2016)

I love how quickly Anubias adjusts it's leaves when placed in a new position. Moved on Saturday and by Thursday its leaves are all fanned out and adjusted to the light.

My fish love hiding under its shade, I positioned it above the stone rather than on the stone and its created some great little hiding spots. The embers, Corys and Ottos all like to hang out under here.


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## BexHaystack (4 Mar 2016)

Hey Wisey, really enjoyed your journal so far, especially the pictures you took as you hardscaped it. The gravel in nylon tights looks like a genuis idea, thanks!


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## Wisey (4 Mar 2016)

BexHaystack said:


> Hey Wisey, really enjoyed your journal so far, especially the pictures you took as you hardscaped it. The gravel in nylon tights looks like a genuis idea, thanks!


 Thanks Bex, it's a good way of saving substrate and providing a more solid support to heavy hardscape, but I can't claim credit for the idea, I think quite a few people use it, some with small pieces of lava rock in there etc.

I try to show how I have done things as I learnt far more from others who show step by step pictures and from the Tropica step by step videos. One of my favourite ever scapes is Apalala Shore by Stu Worrall which you can see in the Featured Scapes section here on UKAPS. His step by step pictures there use a similar idea to build up substrate at the back. Seeing how others work is far more informative than just seeing the final shot of the hardscape.


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## BexHaystack (6 Mar 2016)

Thanks for the recommendations Wisey! I've just finished reading your Aurora Aquatica journey and I've gotta say that I am really pleased that your 'Round Two' scape is going so well - you had so many technical hitches and hiccups in your previous attempts (and none of them your fault!) that you really do deserve some smooth sailing now!


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## Wisey (9 Mar 2016)

So it has been a few days since I have updated my journal as I was away for a long weekend. Everything is automated anyway, so I just left the system running as usual, fed the fish on Saturday morning and fed them again when I got home on Tuesday evening as the auto-feeder over feeds and I did not want a mess. Generally everything was in reasonable condition when I returned...

The only real issue was all the remaining Lim. Sess. was floating around the tank and lots of leaves had come off which had clogged the plastic mesh I have in the top of the Eheim skimmer to keep fish out. I replanted a few stems of Lim. Sess, but not sure whether this is going to take off still. When I cleaned out the skimmer I found one of the Ember Tetras had died. Not sure if it died, floated and got sucked in, or went in there and died, I expect the later. I do have the plastic mesh, but it had slipped, probably with all the Lim. Sess, stuck in it causing a lot of suction on the mesh. It had therefore moved and allowed a small gap in to the skimmer, probably not enough for anything bigger than an Ember to get through, but just enough for an Ember to slip through.

Everything else seems to be doing well plant wise. The Ech. Quadricostatus does have old leaves melting, but all plants are putting out new leaves and two plants have put out runners which are 5-6 inches long with a new plant on each in only 4 days! I need to get in there and remove some old leaves, but this plant is doing well.

The Alternanthera has finally established roots, seems to have a decent hold in the substrate and has put on a growth spurt, new growth on all plantlets. This is a relief, I feel in another week or so I may be able to push the flow back up and little. The other 1-2 grow plant, the Pogo. Erectus does not appear to have done much yet, but I hope it is getting roots established. I had one piece floating when I got back which was replanted, but the rest seem to be holding well now.

Ceratopteris Thalictroides is doing well, its put on a spurt of growth and is one stem is well on the way to the surface. I'll probably need to trim and replant some stems at the weekend to start spreading this over a larger area.

The Hydrocotyle Tripartita is also filling in the areas around the large bogwood, all going fine there.

The only real annoyance is the amount of Tropica substrate that has come forward on to the sand at the front. I'll try to syphon all that out when I do the water change. I think the substrate is still subsiding in other areas too, so I may well need to fill in with a few more handfuls. I have a small amount left in the 9 litre bag I used at setup and I have a second 9 litre bag spare, so no issues there.


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## alto (9 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Lim. Sess. was floating around the tank and lots of leaves had come off


shame ... just for contrast, I'd picked this plant up last week - had just arrived from Tropica so fairly small, emerse growth - it's likely doubled in size, no shedding etc,
in contrast the Lindernia rotundifolia just sits there & gives me the


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## Wisey (9 Mar 2016)

Well I get home this evening and it was famous last words about the Pogostomon, half of it was floating around the tank! It was fine this morning, so I can only assume a combination of sinking substrate in that back left corner and boisterous Cory's uprooting it. I needed to do a water change tonight after being away at the weekend, so went ahead and did that, topped up the soil in that corner while the water level was low and replanted all the Pogo. I have ensured that it is well pushed down in to the substrate, so hopefully it takes root properly soon.

I had not seen the Amano's since I got home last night and was wondering where they had gone, but found a fairly fresh looking moult this evening, then during the fresh water going back in, a Cory drove two of them out from behind the bogwood, so they are still in there somewhere!

The only real concern I have at the moment is the Echinodorus Quadricostatus. I had thought it was just the old emmersed leaves that were melting, but it appears that although new leaves from the crown of the plant seem to be ok, the new plants on the runners have some melting leaves too. That worries me that I have a CO2 issue with this plant. Tropica say that this plant is easy and has low light and CO2 requirements, but on Aqua Essentials, they list Echinodorus Magalensis (which Mick.dk assures me is the same plant) as skilled, with highish light and CO2 preferred, so who is right? The place where it is planted is right below the violet, so the flow does not hit it, but there is flow around the tank and micro bubbles all around that plant, so not sure what is going on. My DC was at the back next to the Pogo and looked lime green, I lifted it out and viewed out of the water actually looked more green/yellow, so I think I am on the brink of CO2 that I can inject, it's maybe just a distribution issue. I have moved the DC over to the right hand side near the Echinodorus and will see how that looks later on. The filter inflow is pretty near the Echinodorus, so I was hoping that would be drawing water through that plant, but maybe not having much impact. The plants are putting out crazy runners though, I had removed all runners when I rescaped and they have been putting out some really long ones, maybe 8 inches with 2 new plants on it! I have removed the runners for now, I would prefer the plants focus on putting energy in to themselves rather than new plants, I assume that is ok to do, someone correct me if I am wrong!


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## alto (10 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Echinodorus Quadricostatus.


melting leaves or paling, transparent becoming leafs?
this is typical of this plant in my area: water is very soft, and this "easy" plant actually becomes more difficult to maintain looking good, than other plants rated at higher degree of difficult
eg as long as I add _some_ CO2, M umbrosum is extremely tolerant of whatever stresses I may throw at it - fortunately it was already one of my favorite plants even before I discovered it's amazing "work" ethic - given the same care, E quadricostatus pales & wines ... yet it's South American so I'd not anticipate the soft, acidic water to be a factor ... ie, I doubt it's a CO2 issue (unless of course I'm guessing wrong on plant appearance & then all options are back on ) 

I'd leave one runner/plant, this may help relieve the "runner drive" (works with garden strawberry plants )

Amano's are the masters of hiding ... I'm never that impressed with their algae interest, long term ... I find they're quite happy to chip wood in some hidden cavern, only venturing out for bloodworms etc
while the Tigers & Cherry variants & Red-Nose (& contaminant Short-Nose) & "Emerald Green" (species not even guessed at by shipper) are out & about keeping up the neighborhood


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## Wisey (10 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> melting leaves or paling, transparent becoming leafs?
> this is typical of this plant in my area: water is very soft, and this "easy" plant actually becomes more difficult to maintain looking good, than other plants rated at higher degree of difficult
> eg as long as I add _some_ CO2, M umbrosum is extremely tolerant of whatever stresses I may throw at it - fortunately it was already one of my favorite plants even before I discovered it's amazing "work" ethic - given the same care, E quadricostatus pales & wines ... yet it's South American so I'd not anticipate the soft, acidic water to be a factor ... ie, I doubt it's a CO2 issue (unless of course I'm guessing wrong on plant appearance & then all options are back on )
> 
> ...



The leaves become transparent, you can still see the veins, but you can see right through the leaf. So that's not melting then? I do have really soft water here, so maybe it is going to be harder for me to grow. I picked it as I thought it was going to be easy! The DC was lime green all night even after moving over to the other side. I'll check it again tonight and see how it is after being blue, does it go green as quickly there as the other side. There is certainly lower flow and less micro bubbles in that area, but the DC seems to suggest that there is good CO2 levels in that area.


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## alto (10 Mar 2016)

It could be melting  but it's very different than the sort you see with crypts (other plants can lose leafs in the same manner) - so I just wanted to confirm that we're talking the same observation ...
re the soft water, do you support GH & KH? if so what are your target values?

You might try dosing some fertilizer in close proximity (no idea how this would work in terms of EI, as I feel you need to be more cautious in terms of not over-dosing compared to versions such as Tropica) but I'd look at GH/KH first as I believe you're likely dosing a good amount of nutrients (EI method as I recall)


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## Wisey (10 Mar 2016)

Not good news!

This first pic is what's happening to the Ech. Quadricostatus.






But this evening my Alternanthera is going the same way. These plants looked perfect yesterday, good growth, but now they are all like this in the space of 24 hours.





I don't understand how they have deteriorated so suddenly, they are the first plants to get the CO2 rich water from the violet pipe.


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## alto (10 Mar 2016)

8 determined otocinclus???

I'd try isolating them for a few days & observe - especially the E quad leaf looks suspiciously patterned


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## Wisey (10 Mar 2016)

I have no where to isolate them unfortunately! That is annoying, they never ate plants in the previous set-up!

I put a huge piece of bell pepper in there for the little blighters last night too!


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## alto (10 Mar 2016)

Maybe try some spinach & kales - organic just in case re shrimp ... though I suppose if you blanch first it should be fine, kale likely would need to be softened ... I read a discussion somewhere (recently but obviously not recent enough ) discussing the aspects of prepping kale .. it dries very nicely in the oven (very tasty if you season with olive oil & S & P) & then can be stored at room temp - probably best fed clipped in place (reef shops usually offer a magnet version veggie clip)

Oto's may get over the excitement of tender new plants - once they slow down, fast-growing plants generally do fine - it's possible that the oto's are just cleaning up leafs that are already somewhat damaged re transit/transition etc & aquatic leafs will be left alone.


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## dw1305 (11 Mar 2016)

Hi all, 





Wisey said:


> his first pic is what's happening to the Ech. Quadricostatus.


That is definitely plec damage.

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (11 Mar 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, That is definitely plec damage.
> 
> cheers Darrel



I don't have any plecs in the tank, just Otto's, Corys, Embers and some Amano shrimp. I guess it is the Otto's then, its a good job they are loved! Hopefully it is just the emmersed leaves that they are munching on, I didn't have any issues with them with established plants in the previous set-up. I do tend to keep them on the hungry side of fed because I want then working hard, but they have bell pepper in there at the moment and were eating that last night quite happily. I'll try to get them some more greens to keep them happy, I have no visible algae, so they are probably hungry.


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## Wisey (17 Mar 2016)

So almost a week on and not too much new to report, which is a little disappointing as I was hoping for more growth. The following plants are doing fine:

Ceratopteris thalictroides - the main stem has reached the surface, smaller stems are growing well too. I guess I need to trim that main stem, but not certain how I should handle this plant, so if anyone has any advice it would be appreciated. It is not planted as individual stems, it was planted as one large plant from the pot. Can I just trim the longest stem down at the base, remove some leaves at the nodes and replant that stem separately to the main plant?

Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Mi Oya' - Growing really well, looks much better than in the previous setup. Leaves are pointing straight up, I understand in Crypts that this is an indicator of lower light levels, is this correct?

Hydrocotyle tripartita - Removed the piece on the left, but the two areas planted around the main bogwood are growing well. They are a little tall at the moment, but when they get a bit taller I will train them through the wood.
The plants that I am not doing so well with are:

Limnophila sessiliflora - I was down to three tiny stems remaining from that poor condition plant that arrived. Two more had melted stems and floated earlier this week. The third was starting to melt near the bottom, so I picked it out, no roots had formed. I removed the melted part, replanted and I now have one tiny stem which I hope might grow. Not holding my breath waiting though.

Echinodorus quadricostatus - This plant seems healthy, as in its putting out runners and new leaves, but still have a lot of leaf damage and although the pic above looked like fish eating it, some of the other leaves look more like general decay. I think I should have removed more of the emmersed leaves before I planted it, like on the other Echinodorus plant handling videos, but with this plant looking different I was not sure and just planted it as a whole plant as it came from the pot. I guess I may just be dealing with emmersed leaves decaying. I will persevere and keep removing old leaves as they decay.

Pogostemon erectus Tropica 1-2-Grow - This is the plant I was most worried about when I set up the aquarium. I'm not sure how quickly this is meant to go, but its virtually dormant. No melt or die back at all, maybe a few millimetres growth, but that's about it. How long should it take for this tissue culture plant to get established before it starts to show growth? The flow is good here and the DC is always lime green a few centimetres above the plant during the photoperiod.  I'm not convinced it has enough light, more on this later.

Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' Tropica 1-2-Grow - This looks the same as in the pictures from last week. It does appear that it is just the old emmersed leaves that look in poor condition and the newer leaves might be ok, but after the initial growth spurt it really appears to have slowed down. Not sure what to do with this, whether I should just leave it to get on with it or try to remove all the damaged leaves, which wont be easy with a small plant. I don't want to damage the tiny delicate stems while trying to remove leaves. I also think this might need more light.

So, my thoughts on the lighting. I'm still running at 100% for 6 hours per day as I was from day one. Zero algae, slow growth on everything other than the fast growers and even they are not exactly flying away. The Crypt leaves are pointing straight up at the light which I understand is a sign of lower light levels. My tile is still suspended 30cm from the surface and I still have the plexiglass cover over the tank. That cover has a lot of condensation on the underside, so must be a huge light diffuser. I therefore feel that I may still be too low on light for some of the plants like the Pogo and Alternanthera.

I'm undecided how to proceed. I thought about adding another hour to the photoperiod, but I'm not sure duration is really the issue, my concern is more the intensity. What do you guys think about dropping the height of the light by 10cm and see how that goes for 2 weeks? Remember that its a 45 cm high tank, light 30cm from water surface and the cover diffusing light. Would this be the best next step?


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## dw1305 (17 Mar 2016)

Hi all,





Wisey said:


> I guess I need to trim that main stem, but not certain how I should handle this plant, so if anyone has any advice it would be appreciated. It is not planted as individual stems, it was planted as one large plant from the pot. Can I just trim the longest stem down at the base, remove some leaves at the nodes and replant that stem separately to the main plant?


 It isn't really a stem plant, it is a fern so each "stem" is really a leaf. 

I would suggest not trimming the fronds, although you can take them off at the base. 

New plants will form from adventitious buds on the fronds, and I usually wait for the frond to start declining, and then take the "plantlets" off.  You can re-plant them, although I usually just let them float around the tank.

This is the related _Ceratopteris pteroides,_ it has the same method of vegetative reproduction, but you can see the new plants much more easily (_C. pteroides_ is a obligate? floater, with much broader fronds)



 

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (17 Mar 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, It isn't really a stem plant, it is a fern so each "stem" is really a leaf.
> 
> I would suggest not trimming the fronds, although you can take them off at the base.
> 
> ...



Interesting! Every day is a school day 

So with this one piece which is twice the size of the rest of the plant, it's technically a leaf, if I cut that off at the base then I just have to throw that away, I can't replant it?


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## dw1305 (17 Mar 2016)

Hi all,





Wisey said:


> So with this one piece which is twice the size of the rest of the plant, it's technically a leaf, if I cut that off at the base then I just have to throw that away, I can't replant it?


You can float it in the tank and new plants will grow on the cut leaf. 





Wisey said:


> I'm undecided how to proceed. I thought about adding another hour to the photoperiod, but I'm not sure duration is really the issue, my concern is more the intensity. What do you guys think about dropping the height of the light by 10cm and see how that goes for 2 weeks? Remember that its a 45 cm high tank, light 30cm from water surface and the cover diffusing light. Would this be the best next step?


I'd drop the light down lower towards the tank.

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (17 Mar 2016)

I dropped the tile 10 cm, wow, why did I not try this before? Research on this site made me so worried about light, but I really do think a lot of my problems have been lack of light as others on here have experienced with running these tiles on low intensity.

The difference 10cm makes is huge, I guess it is a combination of more light in the tank, but also less spill of light in to the room which makes the tank look brighter. Fingers crossed I get growth without algae!


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## Wisey (17 Mar 2016)

Excuse the dirty pipes, I was lazy at the last clean up, they will get done Sunday. This is the FTS after more light.


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## alto (18 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> Ceratopteris thalictroides


you can handle this plant as shown in the Tropica video oops: no replant shown in this video ... it's been forever since I grew this plant, but as I recall I did replant the "stem" - though you can float it until roots appear as well)



Wisey said:


> Echinodorus quadricostatus


just keep on with the tidying  



Wisey said:


> Alternanthera reineckii 'Mini' Tropica 1-2-Grow


I suspect this plant is struggling somewhat given the attention it's receiving from the Oto's - you can just use sharp scisssors to trim affected leafs, don't worry about the last bits attached to stem etc



Wisey said:


> Pogostemon erectus Tropica 1-2-Grow


This plant seems to take a couple weeks to find it's "feet", then growth should be pretty steady ... you can watch it in Pedro Rosa's journal (note how everything else is going in relation)
 - I do think it is more senstive than some to light levels 



Wisey said:


> I dropped the tile 10 cm


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## Wisey (18 Mar 2016)

alto said:


> you can handle this plant as shown in the Tropica video oops: no replant shown in this video ... it's been forever since I grew this plant, but as I recall I did replant the "stem" - though you can float it until roots appear as well)
> 
> 
> just keep on with the tidying
> ...



Thanks for the heads up on the Tropica video, I had missed that one. I probably should have divided the plant when I first planted rather than plant as one big plant. Looks like I will just have to keep trimming and trying to encourage it to spread.

It was actually Pedro's  journal that convinced me that I was doing something fundamentally wrong with Tissue Culture plants. He had more growth in 7 days than I had in 7 months! It is a while since I read that journal though, so thanks for pointing me back at it as I had not remembered that his Pogo was much slower than the other plants. I have definitely got a few stems that seem to have a little growth, so with the addition of more light and them now being settled in for a few weeks I hope they start to take off. For Pedro they are much lower than his other background plants, but I only want mine to get to a mid height anyway and give a nice contrasting background to the Alternanthera.


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## gareth777 (18 Mar 2016)

looking good been watching this one with interest


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## Wisey (21 Mar 2016)

After upping the light I was away for a few days at the weekend. Came back to find a slight substrate slip at the back right corner which had caused a couple of bits of the Pogo to float. Topped up the substrate and re-planted, but apart from that everything else looked good. Quite a lot of the Pogo stems are starting to display some new growth now, so that's good news. As for the Alternanthera, that has the straggly old leaves still, I have removed some but generally just left it to get on with it and most plants are just starting to show a brand new pair of leaves, so it looks like that is also responding to the light and starting to get going.

I definitely need to make a decision on what will go at the front left, tempted to have another go with Monte Carlo. I think getting something planted there will help reduce the substrate moving forwards in that area. I'm finding it a bit of a nightmare to keep the sand area clean at the moment, but hope once plants get more established that they should protect the substrate from the flow and their roots should help keep things in place. I guess I will always have to clean that area up, but hopefully it will get a bit more manageable in time.


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## Wisey (22 Mar 2016)

I'm not at all convinced with the violet style outflow pipe and my current flow configuration, so some thought is going in to this just now.

I picked the violet as I wanted the more demanding plants lower down on the left hand side to get good flow and CO2, but its causing a lot of substrate movement which is a real PITA. In an attempt to try and stop it pushing substrate forwards, I angled the pipe so it was pointing slightly towards the back of the tank instead of straight at the opposite side. This has helped to some extent, but water is hitting the rock behind the Alternanthera, rebounding and starting to dig a channel in the substrate between the Alternanthera and the stone. It's also slowly pushing substrate forwards through the Alternanthera.

To try and reduce these issues I have reduced the filter flow, but worry about getting problems with lack of flow in other areas. I notice now that I can drop food down the front glass on to the sand and there appears to be almost no flow at all across the front of the tank, which I am sure could cause issues with stagnation down the line. I do appear to get a green DC all around the tank, so I think I am getting good levels of CO2 dissolved in to the water and the water is getting moved around, especially seeing as the skimmer helps to push water from left to right across the back glass, but I had to reduce the power of that too as it was putting too much pressure on the stems at the back right.

I'm kinda tied to having the inflow and outflow pipes on the right as that is the side of the cabinet that I fitted the desk grommets in to get the pipes out of the side rather than the back. I do see with the current setup that flow hits the far side and goes upwards then I can see the CO2 bubbles start to come back towards the right higher up, but not powerful enough to get all the way back over the tank.

I'm considering switching to a standard lilly style pipe to see if the flow will hit the far side higher up and flow down the side glass to the plants that need the CO2 then back across the substrate towards the right hand side. I guess another option would be to revert to the old spraybar, but rather than having it from the back to the front, I could set that up on the right hand side, push flow over the surface from right to left, down the left side glass and back over the substrate that way. I'm reluctant to get the nasty plastic spraybar back in there, but could test with the plastic one then get one of the smaller glass ones if it works.

Thoughts and opinions appreciated please! Any ideas?


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## alto (22 Mar 2016)

I don't use glass pipes (too fragile    ) so this is just observation
- your outlet is far too low in the water, the upper glass edge should be at/near water surface
(disclaimer: these tanks were set up by the ADA distributor or by shop staff trained by same)
- another factor in these outlets is that not so obvious design (flaws?) can greatly affect flow pattern

I'd be inclined to stay with the side flow rather than front to back
Try angling the flow towards the front left glass, but not into the actual corner & see what that does ... you could start at the midline & then move towards the left corner - I'd be inclined to play with flow angles rather than reducing flow (so as not to disturb substrate) 

You might also change the positions of inlet/outlet - sand should be more resistant to flow disturbance (or at least, won't kick up plants)

Further disclaimer, I like spray bars    -  though  the ugly plastic, not so much


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## alto (22 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> at the front left, tempted to have another go with Monte Carlo


I MC a lot (it's like the ground cover version of _M umbrosum _) - when you plant, just go with the (almost) individual stems set quite deep in the substrate (they'll also be less likely to float), you can also stash some "clumps" amongst the rock line to help control substrate movement (shrimp & cories are good at defeating any efforts of yours to maintain soil-free-sand )
 - this way you also get to compare growth


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## Wisey (22 Mar 2016)

My 7 day schedule is out of sync, so my "Sunday" is tonight. I'll have a play around with things while doing my water change. I did just try lifting the pipe almost to the surface and it helps. Slight snag in that my cover does not fit with the violet higher, but just eased to the side a bit for now. I also noticed the violet was pointing down a little, the pressure of the stiff hose combined with only having one suction cup means the pipe is not actually sitting straight, the hose is forcing it down at an angle. Just wedged a matchbox in the gap to make it sit vertical and that's helped too.

I'll post again, prob with some pics, after the cleanup.


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## alto (22 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> prob with some pics


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## parotet (22 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> but its causing a lot of substrate movement which is a real PITA


Yup, I had the same problem. It is a pain when you have cosmetic sand, not that much with a densely planted carpet in the foreground. In my case a managed to solve the problem with a rock tied with moss in the critical area.



Wisey said:


> To try and reduce these issues I have reduced the filter flow, but worry about getting problems with lack of flow in other areas


I am worried about having problems in the longterm with such solution. 



Wisey said:


> I'm considering switching to a standard lilly style pipe to see if the flow will hit the far side higher up and flow down the side glass to the plants that need the CO2 then back across the substrate towards the right hand side


Once again exactly what I did a few days after buying my violet lily pipe... my other problem was that it was too noisy at night (I raise the outflow for breaking the surface).

However, I think it is a good piece of equipment, probably interesting for other layouts with foreground densely planted, Iwagumi type and/or longer tanks.

Jordi


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## Wisey (22 Mar 2016)

I followed you advice, alto. The violet has been raised and my matchbox trick keeps it upright. Seems to be less flow directly at the substrate now, but we will see overnight.










I was trying to thin out the Ceratopteris Thalictroides, but my attention just uprooted it. I therefore took the opportunity to separate in to three pieces as per the Tropica video and replanted. It's better spread now and I put the smaller piece right behind the wood hoping it will fill in where the Lim. Sess. didn't make it.





As there was some substrate disturbance I decided to do a larger water change, but too the chance to make another substrate disturbing change. There was a smaller bit of bogwood behind the piece that runs to the front left corner. Theory was it would hold back substrate, the reality was it didn't, it just meant very shallow substrate that can't be planted in. I therefore removed it, syphoned put the dust cloud, topped up the substrate and that area is ready for some Monte Carlo.





You can definitely see some growth on the Pogo now, so that is encouraging.


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## Wisey (22 Mar 2016)

I did have a go at moving the outflow violet pipe further towards the front, but as my desk grommets are placed towards the back this put strain on the hose which made the violet lean at an angle. I tried a few options, but in the end reverted to how they were but higher and straighter. I can see an improvement already so fingers crossed.

Here is a quick FTS...




I removed quite a lot of damaged leaves from the Ech. Quadricostatus, so that's thinned out. Trying to make sure the ottos are well fed, hence the yellow bell pepper in there. Noticed some damage to the Cerstopteris tonight too! At least they seem to be leaving the Alternanthera alone just now.


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## Wisey (22 Mar 2016)

The plexiglass cover is just rested sticking over the end at the moment to a accommodate the violet being higher, not ideal, but it will do for now.


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## Wisey (23 Mar 2016)

I added blanched courgette last night and some of the Ottos were straight on it. I did used to feed courgette quite a lot but haven't recently. I do see them go to the bell pepper at night, but maybe they don't like it as much as the courgette and have therefore been feeding on my plants. I need to improve their diet and try to keep them full, I just don't want to feed them too full so they don't eat algae (not that I have any yet...).


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## Wisey (24 Mar 2016)

I went to order some MC yesterday, but Aqua Essentials were out of stock. I went to Aquarium Gardens, but then realised I had missed the cut off for shipment yesterday and would therefore not get it before the bank holiday weekend. I'm going to place that order next week instead.

I'm a little concerned that I have some sort of water quality issue. The FTS picture above after the work the other day has water that is perfectly clear. When I got home last night, the clarity of the water was not quite the same. There was a lot of CO2 going in, so I thought that might be it, but after the CO2 was off for half an hour and the micro bubbles had mostly gone, there appeared to be a slight clarity issue still. It's not milky white water, so not a big bacteria bloom (yet), it's hard to describe. I did do a big filter clean when I rescaped, I cleaned the pre-filter and fine filter in tap water, but I was careful to just rinse the pan scrubbers from the first basket in tank water and the same for the Alfagrog in the second basket, just a quick swish up and down in tank water to remove some loose detritus. It's been almost 4 weeks since I rescaped though, so I would have expected to see an issue sooner if I had killed off too much filter bacteria.

I'll have to see how it looks when I get home this evening. It was hard to see anything at all wrong with the lights off this morning. If its still not looking right tonight I will do another water change and dose some extra Prime at the same time.


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## alto (24 Mar 2016)

Wisey said:


> You can definitely see some growth on the Pogo now, so that is encouraging.


Looks good 



Wisey said:


> The FTS picture above after the work the other day has water that is perfectly clear. When I got home last night, the clarity of the water was not quite the same.


this sounds a bit like "green water" -which may actually appear green to brown if you collect "_stuff_" on a white cloth
It generally sorts itself out & doesn't compromise plants or livestock until you get something that is densely opaque (think pea soup quality) - at this stage it will tend to sequester oxygen from water (at possible expense of livestock) & reduce light/nutrition to plants.
You can try increased water changes or just stick with usual water change schedule - if you've a UV handy, throw this on the tank (but I'd not go out & purchase)


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## Wisey (24 Mar 2016)

I have just done a google image search for "bacteria bloom" and what I am seeing is similar to some of the pics you see there, but nowhere near as white as those. It definitely has a white tint to it rather than green though. I don't have UV unfortunately.


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## Wisey (28 Mar 2016)

Well the water clarity issue sorted itself out very quickly without any intervention, so not sure what happened there, but all seems well for the time being.

I have placed an order with Aquarium Gardens this morning. They are closed for the bank holiday today, but all being well my order will be shipped tomorrow and I should have it on Wednesday. I can then do a water change on Wednesday evening and plant up my new Monte Carlo. I have ordered two pots of Hortilab Tissue Culture plants. I guess one pot would have been sufficient, but I am impatient, so figured I would try and get it well planted from the start.

I also have some S. Repens in the propagator and it is growing well. It's been trimmed and I have double the number of stems after replanting tops in the last month, so I am tempted to see if I can fit some of that in around the rocks as its a lovely plant and seems a shame for it to just sit there in the propagator.

I may well see if I can condense the Alternanthera in to a slightly more compact grouping by moving a few of the stems so that I have a little space to bring the Monte Carlo part the way across in front of it. I'm pleased to say that this plant does seem to be doing much better since the increase in light, two new sets of leaves on each stem now and they are redder than the original leaves. It's not the intense red that I would like to see eventually, but at least I am seeing growth and it is not green.

I'm seeing some melt or damage on some parts of the Ceratopteris Thalictroides, not sure what the issue is there, but I did notice that the area affected mainly appears to be underneath where the ferts are dosed and I wonder if that could be an issue. I might try moving the fert tubes further forwards if I continue to get issues with that plant.


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## Wisey (30 Mar 2016)

I have had confirmation that my Aquarium Gardens order will be delivered today, so as planned I will drain off about 75% of the water this evening, plant up the MC and refill the aquarium. It's actually come at a good time as I have some detritus in the tank that needs to be syphoned off. I fed a couple of algae wafers to try and stop the Amanos eating the plants, but this resulted in a bit of a mess in the tank last night. There was quite a lot of it spread over the sand at the front, more swirling around in the water column and as the Corys rooted around in the sand it was sending more and more up in to the water.

This made me realise that flow in the tank is just not what it needs to be right now. The algae wafer particles were just swirling round and round in the left two thirds of the tank, but hardly any of it was getting to the right hand side where the inflow for the filter is located. Therefore, it was just circulating and not getting removed from the aquarium. I have been trying to use the skimmer at the back right to supplement flow across the back of the tank and this does help, but with such a small outflow and the flow reducing once you get a day or two of mulm in the sponge, it's not very effective.

I have therefore placed an order with Aqua Essentials this morning so I can try and address the flow. When I was attempting to change the location of inflow and outflow, the problem I had was I was restricted by my hose length. I also had the restriction that the holes I cut in the side of the tank suited the previous setup and are both towards the back right. The rigidity of the hose that I had bought from eBay meant that I could not get the pipes to stay upright due to the hose pressure. I therefore ordered 6 metres of the superfish 16/22 hose from Aqua Essentials to have a try with this. Some of the reviews say it was very flexible, the downside being that it can kink, but hopefully I can make this work.

I also ordered a Hydor Koralia 900lph circulation pump. I like the sound of this, a good boost to my flow, but a diffused flow so hoping it does not blast things around too much. I'm not sure on the placement of this yet, it will require some experimentation at the weekend (if it arrives in time). I have a couple of theories at the moment, I'm going to take alto's advice of trying the filter outflow pipe further forward on the right hand side so that I get flow across the front of the tank then it should turn over the left end towards the back. With the violet directing the flow downwards, I may put the Koralia next to the outflow violet to boost its flow, but have it more directed horizontally over the tank above the flow from the outflow. My other theory is that I could replace the skimmer at the back left with the Koralia to try and boost the flow around the tank as it comes round that left hand side. If I do that, I may keep the skimmer in the same place to contribute to this flow, or possible move the skimmer over to the right side to increase flow from the outflow. Hopefully with one of these methods I can get a good circular flow going around the whole tank.

Although I do seem to have good CO2 levels in the lower flow right hand side of the tank, I am not certain I am getting good ferts distribution. The dosing pump dumps the ferts in just behind the violet pipe at the moment, but one thing I have noticed when dropping some flake food in there is that there is very little flow in this area, the violet draws in water from around and above as the flow comes out, but not from behind. When I alter the flow with my new Koralia and hose I will have a re-think on where I introduce the ferts to ensure they get picked up and distributed.


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## Wisey (30 Mar 2016)

As I expected one cup of MC would have been enough, but it didn't seem worth the postage! I put some in the propagator to see if it will root and planted fairly heavily in the aquarium.

While in there I removed about 90% of the old damaged leaves from the Alternanthera, it's looking better now, redder and bigger.

You can see both here...





The MC is planted deep enough that the flow is not an issue. I can see CO2 flowing over it, so hopefully it takes hold. I just need the bloody Corys to keep out of it. More chance of winning the lottery I think!


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## Wisey (31 Mar 2016)

Only 4 small bits of MC floating around the tank when I got up this morning, I'm classing that as a victory seeing as the Corys were all over it last night.


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## Wisey (6 Apr 2016)

A quick warts and all phone shot so you can see how things are just now before I post an update from the PC.


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## Wisey (6 Apr 2016)

So as I said, its a warts and all shot as it's a little messy in there at the moment, still got a lot of substrate coming forwards on to the sand. Two things I have learnt since this rescape:

Banked substrate is a pain in the posterior
Less is more
As you may notice when comparing to previous pictures I have already removed one small piece of bogwood that was added in at the point the large stones meet with the bogwood that comes to the front left corner. Substrate was moving forwards here anyway, so I removed that extra wood and will grow the Hydrocotyle through here in time. Continuing the less is more lesson I intend to remove the other small piece of bogwood on top of the sand at the next water change, then give the sand a good clean and replenish with some fresh sand and pea shingle as no doubt the current pea shingle will get sucked out when I syphon the substrate.

An update on some of the plants:


*Monte Carlo* - As you can see, the Monte Carlo is in, but as yet has done very little. It hasn't died though, so I'm taking that as a positive. I'm still picking bits out the skimmer every day, some get replanted, some just go in the bin. Hopefully it takes hold and starts to grow and spread soon.
*Althernanthera *- Definitely getting redder, but still quite slow to grow.
*Ech. Quadricostatus *- Annoyingly putting a lot of energy in to runners and very slow growth on the main plants. Also the new runners are very pale, so I suspect nutrient deficiencies. Not sure whether this is due to fert levels or distribution. More on this later.
*Ceratopteris Thalictroides *-  I feel I have chosen the wrong plant for the back right corner. It grows very dense at the bottom and not so dense at the top. I'm still getting some leaf damage and lots of tiny bits of it floating around the tank. The smaller part planted right behind the taller piece of bogwood is growing well, but the rest to the right hand side is not. It has rotted away at the base. I feel that I need a plant that will be happy to grow in the small space at the bottom, but will spread out and get bushier higher up to fill in that space that gets larger as the bogwood leans to the left. Open to suggestion here!
*Pogostomon Erectus *-  I always thought from day 1 that this would be my hardest plant. It has grown a little, but was very slow to get started. Just as I thought it was starting to get some extra growth on it, the lower leaves started to brown a little on the edges. The tops are still nice green fresh growth, but the lower leaves don't look great. Last night I suddenly had a lot of this float. Corys or shrimps could have been involved, but also not sure if some of the roots have died. Some stems that were floating had roots, others had nothing, not sure if the Amanos had eaten the roots or something. I'll keep trying with this for now.
As for flow and distribution, my order from Aqua Essentials arrived while I was out on Friday and I had to go collect from the depot on Saturday morning. I was surprised how small the box was considering there was supposed to be 6 metres of superfish hose in there. Got it home and it seems they had crammed it in to way too small a box. That hose is know to kink easily and it had been bent in so many places so tighly that there was a load of permanent creases in the hose that could never be removed. I therefore didn't get round to changing the inflow and outflow positions at the weekend. I have had to wait for a replacement hose which has just arrived in better condition today. I'm not sure whether I will have time to make the changes tomorrow or whether they will have to wait for the weekend.


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## Wisey (6 Apr 2016)

You can see the discolouration on the lower Pogo leaves here.


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## Wisey (7 Apr 2016)

I changed water and had a clean up tonight, so things are looking better.





I syphoned out all the Tropica substrate that was on the sand, taking some sand and shingle with it. I ended up removing all the pebbles to give it a good clean. 

I knew the river cobbles had gone a little green over time, but the change was way more obvious and bigger than I had realised when I saw the stone that had been buried in the sand. An example here:





I topped up with fresh sand, pebbles back in then fresh pea shingle. I also removed the small bit of bogwood from the sand as planned.

I removed the Ceratopteris Thalictroides tonight as only one bit looked healthy and I'm sick of it shedding tiny pieces of leaf. Need to replace with something more suitable for the space.

The Hydrocotlye is looking unruly, but didn't trim today as I want to retain as much plant mass for now until I decide what's going on the gaps.

Some of the MC is looking a little brown on the leaf edges, but I can also see new growth coming through in places so hopefully it's going to settle ok.

I finally got round to changing the daylight savings hour on my timers. My intention was to increase the photoperiod but after seeing how green those rocks are I'll hold fire until the weekend when I get the new hoses and powerhead fitted to hopefully improve distribution.


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## dw1305 (8 Apr 2016)

Hi all,





Wisey said:


> I finally got round to changing the daylight savings hour on my timers. My intention was to increase the photoperiod but after seeing how green those rocks are I'll hold fire until the weekend when I get the new hoses and powerhead fitted to hopefully improve distribution.


The rocks will develop that lovely green patina whatever you do. If you have enough light for plant growth, green algae will grow as well. 

The only way you can keep your pebbles unnaturally clean is to physically clean them every week, or have a very efficient algal browsing snail (<"Zebra Nerite"> or similar).

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (8 Apr 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,The rocks will develop that lovely green patina whatever you do. If you have enough light for plant growth, green algae will grow as well.
> 
> The only way you can keep your pebbles unnaturally clean is to physically clean them every week, or have a very efficient algal browsing snail (<"Zebra Nerite"> or similar).
> 
> cheers Darrel



Yeah, it is just the rocks, no other algae issues, so I am happy to live with that. With Anubias on the rocks, it would be really hard to clean them every week and they certainkly cant be removed from the tank. I guess it looks more natural and I am happy with that. I did notice the Amanos and Otto's grazing on the stones last night, so if it keeps them occupied that's fine.

Any ideas about the browning on the lower leaves of the Pogo Erectus please Darrel? Is this just the emmersed growth dying back seeing as the tops look fresh and green, or do I have a problem here? I am still getting the odd stem floating away and looks like it is not healthy at the bottom, but then it was planted very densely from the Tropica 1-2 Grow pot, so there were groups of stems rather than individual stems planted.


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## dw1305 (8 Apr 2016)

Hi all, 





Wisey said:


> Any ideas about the browning on the lower leaves of the Pogo Erectus please Darrel? Is this just the emmersed growth dying back seeing as the tops look fresh and green, or do I have a problem here?


It isn't a plant I've grown, but if the new shoots look green, and are are growing, I wouldn't worry too much. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (8 Apr 2016)

Ok, thank you. I will persevere! Hopefully improvements I intend to make to flow and distribution will help.


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## Wisey (8 Apr 2016)

Since the rescape, my previously happy Anubias plants have only produced small stunted leaves compared to the frequent large leaves in the old scape.

Is this nutrient deficiencies?


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## Eduard18 (9 Apr 2016)

Hi! Most likely;how are the other plants doing?


Envoyé de mon SM-G935F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## alto (9 Apr 2016)

Wisey said:


> Any ideas about the browning on the lower leaves of the Pogo Erectus please Darrel? Is this just the emmersed growth dying back seeing as the tops look fresh and green, or do I have a problem here? I am still getting the odd stem floating away and looks like it is not healthy at the bottom, but then it was planted very densely from the Tropica 1-2 Grow pot, so there were groups of stems rather than individual stems planted.



This seems pretty normal, but it can also indicate low light (at any rate I did an accidental 3 day black out while away & the P erectus was very unhappy & similar appearance as you've described)
With some of the 1-2-Grow you need to plant deep like that, most stems seem to do fine ... & once growth is established you can always trim & replant the tops, discarding the ugly bits (remove or cut at substrate level)

I rather like some algae patina on stone (this is the sort of thing that Twinstar is good at I think), you can also look at the various "butterfly" loaches (try to id species & research before buying) as they are often outstanding rock cleaners - & very cute too 
sadly they haven't been showing up in my local shops for the last year or 2 

Another possible factor on anubias may be they initially had good amount of energy reserves that helped produce those larger leafs (can't recall how long A A was running & when you began with these anubias  ) so while you might feel not much has changed in nutrient levels in tank, the anubias sees it quite differently 
(also substrate change may be a bigger impact)

Overall tank seems like a happy place


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## Wisey (11 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> This seems pretty normal, but it can also indicate low light (at any rate I did an accidental 3 day black out while away & the P erectus was very unhappy & similar appearance as you've described)
> With some of the 1-2-Grow you need to plant deep like that, most stems seem to do fine ... & once growth is established you can always trim & replant the tops, discarding the ugly bits (remove or cut at substrate level)
> 
> I rather like some algae patina on stone (this is the sort of thing that Twinstar is good at I think), you can also look at the various "butterfly" loaches (try to id species & research before buying) as they are often outstanding rock cleaners - & very cute too
> ...



It could well be that my light levels are still relatively low. Considering most people seem to get at least some algae and all I have is that slight greening on the stones, but zero algae elsewhere, I'm of the opinion my light levels need to be a bit higher. My Alternanthera is growing, and is reddish, but not a deep red, so that is probably another indicator of the low light level. The light is already running at 100%, so my only options are to lower it even more, or increase the photoperiod. I'm only running at 6 hours just now and was already planning on increasing to 7, so will go ahead and do that this week. I didn't get round to working on flow and distribution at the weekend. I was at the Brewdog AGM on Saturday and Sunday was therefore a write off! I'll replace the hoses with longer ones and re-arrange the inflow and outflow when I do my weekly water change mid week.

The Anubias was quite happy in the old scape for around 8 months, regularly producing new leaves that got nice and big. I think the problem could be that my light levels are higher in this scape and they are currently in a lower flow area, so I am probably pushing them with too much light and they don't have everything else in balance to cope with it. My hope was that the Ech. Quadricostatus would grow quickly to shade them, it is certainly growing, but still a little glassy on a lot of leaves, so hopefully improvements to flow and distribution this week will help with that. I'm also going to test the calibration of my dosing pumps this week to ensure that they are still delivering what I think they are.


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## alto (12 Apr 2016)

Wisey said:


> I was at the Brewdog AGM on Saturday and Sunday


now that's dedication to ....


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## Wisey (12 Apr 2016)

Well, last night did not pan out to be a great evening. I got home and decided that I really ought to get the flow sorted out ASAP to give the plants the best chance. I switched out the hoses, moved the outflow violet pipe right to the front, the inflow further back and then put in the powerhead next to the violet to boost flow. The superfish hose is really flexible and although that made it a pain to get the hoses on the glassware, it did mean that I could get the curves I needed without putting too much pressure on things. Once it was set up, the hose just put a slight lean on the violet, so rather than point straight across the tank, it kinda points slightly forward at the front left corner. The other benefit of the new violet location is that my cover fits properly again.

I decided to try it like that and it seemed to work well. No substrate disturbance, so I notched the speed up on the filter a couple higher and then switched on the powerhead too. The powerhead is pointed the same direction as the Violet, but slightly higher, the theory being that the flow from that will contribute to the circular motion, but hopefully keep the CO2 down low where that plants are on that side. With the CO2 on I could see that the water hits that front corner, then most of it turns towards the back, flowing over the MC and up to the Pogo. The Pogo was now gently swaying as was the Alternanthera and MC. I could also see some gentle movement in the Ech. Quadricostatus right at the other side which was not moving at all before. I then switched the skimmer back on to boost the circular flow around the back. Things were looking really good, a few bits of detritus got pushed in a circle right around the tank and then sucked straight through the inflow pipe and out the tank. I moved the fert dosing tubes to just behind the powerhead and tested with a little extra macro, it gets pulled straight in to the powerhead so I should now be sure to have good fert distribution.

I then reset my timers to add an hour to the lights and bring the CO2 on an hour earlier, but I had made no changes to the quantity of CO2 being injected, just to the distribution. Later in the evening, things took a turn for the worse. I noticed that one of the Otto's was right up at the water line, practically lying upside down with his mouth on the surface. I immediately turned off the CO2 and switched on the airstone. I looked at the DC, it had a green tinge to it still, but when I lifted it out and put it against a white background it was yellow with only a slight tinge of green.

The strange thing is I had not changed the CO2, it's possible the needle valve had been knocked when I moved the FE to change the hoses over though. I then thought it was a bit strange that only one of the Ottos was bothered, so started to look for the rest, bearing in mind that there were 8 of them in here a few weeks back. They spend a lot of time stuck to the back glass behind the bogwood, so it's not unusual to not seem them around very much when lights are on and I had seen one out and about occasionally in recent days. My DC was in the low flow part of the tank before, so its possible that I was injecting a lot of CO2 before, but it was not getting distributed to the area of the tank where the DC was. I was now worried how long I had been over injecting CO2. 

I started looking around the tank, but could not see any more Otto's anywhere, you can usually see them stuck on the glass at the back, but nothing, not one more Otto visible anywhere in the tank! I therefore searched around the cabinet and found two Otto's down the back on the floor. They had definitely been there longer than last night though, very dried out. As upsetting as that was, that still leaves me with a very big question, two down the back, one still in the tank (and alive and well this morning), so where on earth are the other five! I guess its possible that they have slowly died off due to excessive CO2 and maybe the Amanos have eaten the evidence, but what I don't understand is why before last night I did not see any behaviour from the fish that indicated that they were unhappy with the CO2 levels. It's possible that the needle valve got knocked some time back, but the CO2 rate did not look unusual last night, so I think I have been overdosing CO2 for a long time and its not shown up due to poor distribution near the DC. I reduced the CO2 level last night and will check it when I get home this evening. It looks like I am down 7 Otto's though and no sign where 5 have gone, so a bit of a mystery


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## alto (12 Apr 2016)

I can't offer much but commiserations on this discovery 

Add in a highly rated snack & hope for hidden oto's


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## Wisey (12 Apr 2016)

I'll try that tonight alto, but I am not confident of finding any more. With the Ceratopteris Thalictroides removed, I have quite a good view in to the back corner. I did notice last night that a runner has made it's way about 6-8 inches under the wood, all the way from the Ech. Quadricostatus, under the wood and in to the back right corner. This does suggest some gaps under the wood, but not confident that the Otto's are all hiding there all night. I could also only see one Amano last night, now they are often hiding anyway, but hoping that the other three did not deicide to go on a trek if they were not happy with the CO2.


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## Wisey (12 Apr 2016)

I have come home to a blue DC tonight, so too far the other way now. Tweaked it up and will check again later, got to pop out. Got one very lonely looking Otto attached to the front glass, will go to the LFS tomorrow and try to get him some buddies.

Interestingly the new flow pattern has made most of the fish hang out at the front rather than the back of the tank, it's probably the lowest flow area at front right. Nice to have my Corys chilling in view rather then hidden. The Embers seem more active in the flow now too.


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## Wisey (12 Apr 2016)

Good news! Switched off the filter, powerheadand skimmer, dropped in some food and over time, suddenly three Ottos, then four, then five! Technically still missing be with the two jumpers, but five is better than one!


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## chrism (12 Apr 2016)

Great news!  I thought I'd lost a load years ago, wasn't until I was doing some serious moving around that I saw more than one at a time.  I could have been seeing the same one for weeks, or a different one each day 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wisey (13 Apr 2016)

I'm totally stumped as to where they are all hiding. They used to like sitting behind the wood on the back glass, but since my work on flow and distribution, I suspect the flow there is significantly higher now. The Corys have moved from hanging out on the substrate behind the wood to sitting at the front right corner, which will now be the lower flow area. I need to sit and watch and try to work out where on earth they are hiding now as its totally out of sight.

I'm looking in to plants to replace the Ceratopteris in that back corner. As well as it being the wrong shape, it was also a very vibrant green, but the Ech. Quadricostatus in front if it is a similar colour, so looking to create a contrast, either a dark green or a red. I'm considering Ludwigia Palustris as it seems like quite an easy plant to grow and from the Tropica video looks like the right size and shape to fill in that corner.

I'm still planning an LFS trip on the way home, see what they have. Amanos are rare, but I would like to add a few more as I increase my light further. I also need to find a fish that is not too worried out in the open, everything I have including the Ember Tetras likes to hide in the plants most of the time. I could really do with a confident fish that will happily swim mid level out in the open in a fairly well lit tank. Any ideas?


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## alto (13 Apr 2016)

you might try some black phantom tetras (be sure to get mix of male & female)

Great news on the no longer MIA otos


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## Wisey (13 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> you might try some black phantom tetras (be sure to get mix of male & female)
> 
> Great news on the no longer MIA otos



I'm pretty sure I have seen Black Phantom Tetra in my LFS, but was hoping for something with a bit more colour. Cory Sterbai and Ottos are very dark, then my Embers just like to hide and their colour is not great, I assume because the tank is a bit too open for them at the moment and they seem like they prefer good cover.

Are Cardinals any bolder than Embers, or will I just get the same issue with them?


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## alto (13 Apr 2016)

I was thinking that the phantoms would bring out the embers & then you'd have nice contrast.
Red phantoms are quite dissimilar fish, common name notwithstanding, so you could try them for their red rather than black color, but then if the embers do come out, you'll have very similar colors (I much prefer the black phantoms for behaviour & style  & the blue on the males when dancing is brilliant)

Cardinals won't move as nice in this tank dimension as they will in a 120cm & longer tank - likely in your tank size they will mostly just swim about individually ... domestic cardinals get quite large, & they are vociferous feeders.

Harlequins will likely be a nicer shoal in this tank size, purple/blue morph shows nice contrasts of dark body (the purple/blue can cover 70% or so when fish are displaying) & iridescent orange/gold head "spot", look to get more males as they are much brighter than females - in a school of 10-12 you can do 3-4 females (I had a school of 17 & only 2-3 females, the boys spend all their time displaying & wait for the girls' signals), natural morphs will again blend with the embers.

I have _M kubotai_ & _S axelrodi_ in one tank, they are always out in the open: note I fed them very frequently upon arrival as both were quite emaciated, especially the axelrodi - which I expected significant losses, to my surprise I ended up with a stable group of 12 ... 17/22 were alive upon arrival, 3 more died with 12 hours; in contrast, the kubotai #'s slowly diminish, after an initial 10 or so losses, 1-3 a month slip away, these are fish that have remained tiny so perhaps they are _M nanus_, group is now ~20.

These fish don't really school though they just drift about, with a shoal forming, then separating, then reforming etc but it's a subtle dance. After a recent water change, 5-6 kubotai were gently arguing over a "sweet spot", then an axelrodi came in & decided he'd like that territory & spent a couple hours gently driving off any competition ... 

Line bred Endlers might be interesting, I've a group of "orange guppies" that are likely an Endler/Guppy cross, they are actually brilliant schoolers (I've 7 from an initial 9) - they were tiny orange fin, orange & blue body "guppy" juveniles when bought.

_C choprae_ appear quite bold in the shop but I've not kept them.

Perhaps list the locally available fish


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## Wisey (14 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> Perhaps list the locally available fish



I popped in to MA\Fishkeeper Scotland last night on the way home from work. They had just had a delivery, so none of the fish are available to buy until Saturday. I'm going to be a bit busy on Saturday now, so not sure I will get out there, but might be able to in the afternoon.

They had a lot of new fish in, but there is very much in the way of colourful fish other than cichlids or the usual guppy/platy. I think they did have some harlequin rasbora in, so that could be an option. I didn't see the black phantom tetra, but they did have the reds. I also saw the Silver Tip Tetra which looked quite nice, although I hear they can be a bit nippy and feisty.

I agree with what you said about getting something that brings the Embers out, that's a good point, they are probably reluctant to venture out when there are no other fish out there as they think its dangerous. Thinking back to when I had the Odessa Barbs who were always out and about, they were much bolder back then.

I do quite like Rummynose Tetras and they have a nice flash of colour, but they didn't have any in last night. They usually get a regular delivery every other week, but the one last night was an extra one from the Czech Republic which they get every month or two, so they do have another delivery coming in on Tuesday or Wednesday next week, so there could be some new options then.

They do tell me that they can order most things, but I keep asking for Amanos and they say they keep ordering them, but they rarely get any. I have not tried ordering any fish yet. I'm still tempted to get some Hara Jerdoni as seen in Zozo's thread here:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/hara-jerdoni.39864/#post-433175

The shop have told me that they can order these, so might ask if I go back at the weekend. They don't solve my problem of something that swims at mid level and is active, but would be a nice addition alongside something else, they look really interesting.


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## alto (14 Apr 2016)

Amano's seem to have started shipping again, but they were listed as Caridina multidentata (algae shrimp) ... no "Amano's" or "Japonica" on the list 
(there were other "algae shrimp" species listed as well)


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## Wisey (14 Apr 2016)

I could get Amano's online, Aqua Essentials always seem to have them, just always been a bit reluctant to have fish and shrimp sent to me through the post, although I guess that is how they get to the LFS in the first place!


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## Wisey (14 Apr 2016)

It's typical isn't it... Aqua Essentials do not have Amanos but they do have the Ludwigia Palustris red that I wanted in stock. Freshwater shrimp have Amanos, but do not have the Ludwigia. Don't want to have to pay two lots of shipping so will wait and see if one of the two gets the other item back in stock.

I did my water change last night and tidied things up a bit. I removed the Hydrocotyle from the back and just kept the bit further forwards which I gave a good trim. The other bit just grew straight up and looked a mess and was also swamping my Crypts which I would like to have more space and light.

I took some old leaves off the three larger Anubias on the wood at the back and the river cobbles at the front. The small Anubias at the front left on the bogwood has been removed as it just looked strange with the MC behind it, scale all wrong.

The roots of a lot of the Pogo were getting exposed, not sure if soil is still settling or plants are getting disturbed. The Corys are guilty of rooting around in there. I lifted up some of the clumps that were coming out and tried to separate out in to individual stems and replant deeper. The MC was looking a little brown on the edges in places, but seems to have improved since the flow changes. I didn't think the MC was doing anything, but just looked back at a picture of it when it was planted and actually I think there are new bits coming up in the gaps now.

Ech. Quadricostatus is putting out runners everywhere. I wish it would get taller rather than trying to spread everywhere, at least it is filling in well. Might have been the wrong choice for such a small space, but we will see how that goes.

I'll try and get a pic up tonight.


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## Wisey (14 Apr 2016)

Ok, here is the latest FTS. Please ignore the floating bits of Pogo, just got home from dinner out and CBA to sort those tonight!


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## alto (15 Apr 2016)

Looks good ... it's a shame about the phantom fish 

- though I've one of those tanks as well, from a distance, lots of color & movement, walk in for a close up & No Fish or just a few ghosts


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## Wisey (15 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> Looks good ... it's a shame about the phantom fish
> 
> - though I've one of those tanks as well, from a distance, lots of color & movement, walk in for a close up & No Fish or just a few ghosts



Haha, yeah, it desperately needs more fish, see what they have available for sale at MA tomorrow if I have time to get there, I am sure they had harlequins on the order this week.


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## dw1305 (15 Apr 2016)

Hi all,





Wisey said:


> I agree with what you said about getting something that brings the Embers out, that's a good point, they are probably reluctant to venture out when there are no other fish out there as they think its dangerous


Have you got some floaters with long roots? _Pistia_ is ideal. That should get the Tetras to come out. 

cheers Darrel


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## Wisey (15 Apr 2016)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,Have you got some floaters with long roots? _Pistia_ is ideal. That should get the Tetras to come out.
> 
> cheers Darrel



Hi Darrel, my concern with floating plants is that I already have signs of light deficiency in my Pogo and my Alternanthera Reinecki Mini is getting a little redder, but certainly not the red I would like to see. If I add shade in the way of floaters then I might cause myself more issues with those plants that I am already struggling with. It's a difficult balance between keeping the fish happy and confident and getting enough light for the plants.


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## Wisey (16 Apr 2016)

Took a trip out to Fishkeeper at Dobbies today. They had some harlequins, but decided something peaceful but a little larger than the Embers would be better. They didn't have Black Phantom Tetra, only yellow which I considered, but in the end decided on some Rosy Tetras. I have 12 of them acclimating right now. The guy in the shop said he didn't know how to tell between male and female, I had asked to make sure I had a good mx of male and female. Hopefully with buying 12 I get a reasonable mix.


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## Wisey (18 Apr 2016)

The Rosy Tetra's seem to have had the desired effect. They are out and about most of the time and they tend to draw the Embers out too. The Corys are also spending more time out the front, even when they are not being fed and the Otos do appear to be out more too.

Noticed some of the Corys giving one of the others some unusual attention, would appear that she has eggs. Saw some stuck to the bogwood and the back glass yesterday, but all disappeared a few hours later so suspect they have been eaten.


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## Wisey (20 Apr 2016)

It appears I have the first signs of the dreaded BBA on my slow growers.

Just this bit on the end of one of the larger Crypt leaves:





And a few bits forming on the edges of some of my Anubias leaves:









I thought BBA was related to poor CO2 levels and distribution? I just added loads more flow, these areas were low flow before and now have much better flow, but I did drop my CO2 injection rate a little when I thought the Oto was not happy. I have also added an hour of light recently, but only up to 7 hours.

I'll need to do some reading, but I assume best first steps is remove those leaves?


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## DanM621 (20 Apr 2016)

Hi Wisey, just read through this entire thread. Awesome tank. Thought I'd best comment as I've just gone through a bit of BBA and hair algae myself. Physical removal of leaves helped but what i noticed really nipping it in the bud was target dosing liquid Carbo to the effected areas. Most of the liquid carbos have an algaecide in them as I'm sure you're aware. 

Cleared my spots of BBA and hair algae up in a few days.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


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## Wisey (20 Apr 2016)

DanM621 said:


> Hi Wisey, just read through this entire thread. Awesome tank. Thought I'd best comment as I've just gone through a bit of BBA and hair algae myself. Physical removal of leaves helped but what i noticed really nipping it in the bud was target dosing liquid Carbo to the effected areas. Most of the liquid carbos have an algaecide in them as I'm sure you're aware.
> 
> Cleared my spots of BBA and hair algae up in a few days.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input, it's water change day tomorrow so I'll try spot dosing some Easycarbo and leave it a few mins with the filters off while I'm working on things.


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## Wisey (20 Apr 2016)

Loving our new Rosy Tetras, really active fish and boy are they HUNGRY 

I'm going to need to make sure the Embers get fed, the new guys are food hoovers! What is good is they seem to like the frozen food that others were picky with in the past. I bought four different frozen foods, bloodworm, brine shrimp, mysis and cyclops, but the Embers and Odessas only seemed interested in the bloodworm, everything else got left. Tried the Rosys on brine shrimp tonight and it was eaten within no time at all. Will try them on all the others in the coming days.


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## Wisey (21 Apr 2016)

I spot dosed some Easycarbo on the BBA tonight so have to see if that helps.

Quick FTS, bit more fish activity now.





The MC has certainly grown and there is some fresh new growth, but also some browning of older leaves. Also noticed a little melt on a couple of leaves. Should I just leave as is and let it get on with it?





Pogo still looks a bit sad, green tops but browning lower down. I'm tempted to drop the tile even lower, I still think it's not getting the intensity of light it needs. 





The Alternanthera seems to be getting bushier rather than taller. Not that red though which is a bit disappointing and leads me to believe light intensity is still too low. Really wish I had a PAR meter.


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## Lindy (22 Apr 2016)

You could try feeding frozen lobster eggs. All of my fish love them including the liquorice gourami and betta channoides and they can be very fussy. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Greenfinger2 (22 Apr 2016)

Hi Wisey, Looking fab Nice photos of the fish too


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> You could try feeding frozen lobster eggs. All of my fish love them including the liquorice gourami and betta channoides and they can be very fussy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk



Thanks Lindy, always good to get food recommendations, I like to try to vary their diet as much as possible.



Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Wisey, Looking fab Nice photos of the fish too



Thanks Roy, it's coming along! Some things going better than others, but progress for sure. I still need something to fill in that back right corner, but have not got round to ordering the Ludwigia Palustris Red yet. The fish seem happy though, so thats the main thing.

If the MC does not work out I do have more in the propagator. I also have a GLUT of S. Repens in there now the sun has started to shine in Aberdeen, so could always switch out with that. I really want that Pogo to grow though. Seen a number of the Tropica tanks where they have the bright green Pogo with the contrasting red Alternanthera in front and that was the look I really wanted for that left hand side, especially if I could get the bright green MC to grow across in front of the Alternanthera as well.

My Alternanthera seems to be redder on the new leaves, but then they fade back to that green with a red hint as they get older. Not sure if thats a lights or nutrients or both issue?


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## Greenfinger2 (22 Apr 2016)

Hi Wisey, Read somewhere pog does better in soft water. I have given up trying to grow pog in my tanks. It did ok for a time then just died off  London tap water is very very hard 

Speak soon


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

Greenfinger2 said:


> Hi Wisey, Read somewhere pog does better in soft water. I have given up trying to grow pog in my tanks. It did ok for a time then just died off  London tap water is very very hard
> 
> Speak soon



Hi Roy, Im in Aberdeen, my water is super soft, like 2 german degrees according to the water report. I guess it must be something else. I'm sure its probably light with my cover being such a diffuser, but also don't want to go too far and cause a huge algae outbreak.


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## alto (22 Apr 2016)

Maybe try a few Pogo stems in different areas - it's supposedly not high light or high CO2, but I wonder about that position behind the rocks, perhaps it's more shadowed (from light & flow) than expected

If you order in some L palustris, perhaps also try some L repens 'Rubin'


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> Maybe try a few Pogo stems in different areas - it's supposedly not high light or high CO2, but I wonder about that position behind the rocks, perhaps it's more shadowed (from light & flow) than expected
> 
> If you order in some L palustris, perhaps also try some L repens 'Rubin'



Yeah, could be worth trying it somewhere else, but I don't really want it anywhere else, so if it won't grow in that corner I would probably be more tempted to try something different. It does seem to be growing better than it was before I improved flow, I am maybe being impatient. The tops are green, its just the rest that browns very quickly. I'm tempted to either lower the tile again, or try without the cover now I don't have the Odessa Barbs, but worried that the Rosy Tetras could also be jumpers as they are quite happy to fly up to the surface for food and make quite a splash.

I did consider the Ludwigia Repens Rubin, but I read that the Ludwigia Palustris is even easier to grow and turn red, so was going to go with that instead, what with my inability to make the Alternanthera turn red, I wanted the easiest red possible!


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## alto (22 Apr 2016)

L palustris is easy ... except when it's not, I find it goes through periods where it's thriving, but then may get "melt spots" mid stem & just generally looks a but tatty until it gets it's groove back
L repens just stays steady
- different reds & leaf, both very nice

(don't forget I'm the Lazy Aquarist so it's quite likely your L palustris will be more consistent, I was just surprised at how much I liked the 'Rubin')

Trying the Pogo in different locations is just about sussing the issue, then get it going in that back corner

Difficult call on the cover - I finally dumped mine for various reasons & really like the open tops, have had surprisingly few jumpers


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

My tile is still about 20 cm from the water surface then has a good 40cm to go to reach the substrate. I think I will drop it another 10 cm this weekend and see how that goes, should give me more intensity on those plants that need it, but could also mean more drop off in to the corner where the Pogo is. To be fair, I would sacrifice the Pogo in the corner if I could make the Althernanthera go red.

I guess I could get one of those mesh covers, but in my opinion, they look a bit ****.


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## tim (22 Apr 2016)

Really like this layout wisey, have you considered adding another tile, I'm fairly sure that's why George Farmer used two over his 30cm high signature tank to ensure an even par over the whole tank, maybe with your tank height your just not getting enough light spread evenly.


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## alto (22 Apr 2016)

I keep forgetting tank is 60cm wide, tim is likely right in his assessment, most of these LED's give decent 45 x 45 cm coverage, anything outside that area tends to "low" light  
- you just need a "shuffle" on the light rail, lights ON it's at tank left with gradual shift over to tank right by day's end


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

Hmmmm, annoying, that's an expensive upgrade as I only have the two channel controller so would need both a second tile and the 8 channel controller.

Got a wedding to pay for in August, so that's just not going to fly right now. I guess I'll have to rethink plant choices.


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

Just checked, around £125 for the tile plus £220 for the 8 channel, or £55 for a second 2 channel. That's not going to happen right now.

I could always slide the tile further to the left, it's going to look weird, but the more demanding plants are at that side.

I'll try lowering a bit more over the weekend and take it from there.


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## Wisey (22 Apr 2016)

Ok, so after about an hour of feeling a bit dejected about the light situation, I'm now looking at it as an opportunity for a rescape of the back left corner!

I'm considering removing the stones at the back left, them remove the tights full of shingle supporting them and fill in with spare Tropica soil to give me more planting space. I can set the tile slightly further forward to give high light to the Altenanthera and MC, then pack out the back with various Crypts which should be happy in the darker background. I'll still add the taller red stems to the back right corner at the same time to fill in over there. Removing those stones should also give me space to use some of the S. Repens I have in the propagator, which would act as a transition from the MC through to the taller darker Crypts at the back. Would just need to consider what Crypts would grow tall enough to sit back there.

A plan is forming


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## alto (23 Apr 2016)

Adventure begins 

C usteriana
C undulata
C crispulata
even C wendtii 'green' can grow 20+ cm at times

You might look at Murdannia keisak


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## Wisey (23 Apr 2016)

alto said:


> Adventure begins
> 
> C usteriana
> C undulata
> ...



The Murdannia Keisak is a nice looking plant, I considered it in my previous scape. I think it would look really good in a miniature landscape setup with MC or HC around it and the Murdannia looking like a stand of trees in the landscape.

I like the look of the C. Crispulata although Aqua Essentials and Aquarium gardens don't seem to stock it. AE has a really good range of Crypts though, so I may ask them if they can order it for me. C. Balansae is one they stock which also looks tall.

My C. Wendtii Mi Oya has grown nicely in this setup after being very small in the previous scape, but I don't have the nice brown/orange colouring that I see in some pictures which is a bit disappointing. I also find it struggles to put out new leaves, I see these tiny green leaves at the base, but they don't seem to develop well, maybe too little light under the established leaves?

With my flow configuration, tall Crypts planted back left would arch in towards the middle. Could look quite nice with the wood arching in the opposite side, giving it some symmetry. I switched the skimmer off for a few days and didn't get any surface film, I think due to the night time aeration, so I'm considering removing it. If I need a flow boost in that corner across the back I will add another Koralia which is less obtrusive and does not carry the risk of sucking in shrimp and fish and also requires less cleaning.

The C. Usteriana looks nice too with the hammered leaves and interesting colours, although I think I'll need to pick one or two tops of the tall Crypts and pick something mid height to go in front to give me a gradual rise in height from front to back.


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## Wisey (23 Apr 2016)

Dropped the tile so it's about 12cm from the water surface now. Cover still on, so will see how that goes for a few weeks. I've switched the skimmer off again so will see if that can be taken out in a few days.


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## tim (23 Apr 2016)

Think c. Balansae is a variant of c. Crispulata anyway, eleocharis sp. is also a worthy contender to get some height in there with finer blades, also Vallis nana but I'm not sure that would fare well in your softer water. As always watching with interest


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## alto (25 Apr 2016)

A comment on the C usteriana ... it seems to melt upon arrival (though there were several shipments where usually "stable" crypts were also "melting" upon arrival - I suspect something is happening during shipping rather than any issue at the nursery - every shipment of usteriana seems to "melt") - it comes back fairly slowly, leafs are finally getting enough length to have a _presence_ ... all I need to do is convince shop to order more


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## Wisey (26 Apr 2016)

There appears to be fresh growth, but also a lot of browning on the edges of older parts. Is this to be expected as the MC switches to life underwater?






My Hydrocotyle looks a little brown on the edges too and that's on fairly recent growth.


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## Wisey (27 Apr 2016)

So I have been running without the skimmer since Saturday and no surface film visible at all, so I will definitly be removing that this week to be replaced with a second Hydor Koralia 900. 

I have just been to Aqua Essentials and placed an order for the following plants:

1 x Ludwigia Palustris - with the light being dimmer in the corners due to coverage from the tile I decided to go with this rather than Ludwigia Repens Rubin.
2 x Crypt. Balansae - Usteriana was out of stock and Crispulata was not even listed, so decided to give this a try to fill in the back.
1 x Crypt. Wendtii Mi Oya - I already have this in the tank, so this is just to fill in further with the same plant when I take the Pogo and rock out.
1 x Crypt. Petchii - I wanted another smaller Crypt. to go in front of the Balansae and I liked the sound of the violet underside to the leaves, thought this would add some more variety.

Unfortunately AE were out of stock on the Hydor Koralia, so I ended up placing an order with Charterhouse Aquatics as I have a few reward points and they are a bit cheaper on the pump anyway. Had to pay for a second load of postage, but only worked out a couple of pounds worse off than getting it all on the one order from AE.

I trimmed all of the S. Repens in my propagator at the weekend, replanted 28 tops, but then had a really sunny day and with them being fresh cut they over heated and a load of them shrivelled and died. I managed to save some of them and the plants that the tops were cut from were fine, but really annoyed with myself. I would have had about 70 S. Repens plants in there, but have lost about 20 now and I am left with a lot of low cut plants just now. I was intending to plant some when I add the new plants, but will have to see if I have anything that is ready at the time. If not I will leave some gaps to plant some in a few weeks as I love the plant and would really like to include it in the scape now I am making more space.


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## DTL (28 Apr 2016)

ldcgroomer said:


> You could try feeding frozen lobster eggs. All of my fish love them including the liquorice gourami and betta channoides and they can be very fussy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Lindy, where do you get the frozen lobster eggs? Thx


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## Lindy (28 Apr 2016)

The lfs. They do marine fish as well as freshwater so have interesting foods

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## DTL (28 Apr 2016)

Cheers


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## Wisey (29 Apr 2016)

My deliveries arrived yesterday, well, sort of. I had to go collect one from the depot as DPD as usual are next to useless. DPD and Interlink are sister companies. Charterhouse ship Interlink who will deliver to my work address, but Aqua Essentials use DPD who will not deliver here because although its only about 6 miles from the depot, its classed as "Highlands". It's a huge rural postcode and we are right on the boundary, half a mile up the road we would be in Aberdeen. Interlink seem to realise this, DPD do not.

Anyway, the Interlink delivery and the DPD delivery both arrived at the Aberdeen depot and were checked in within 10 minutes of each other, which suggests to me they came in as different shipments on the same wagon. Interlink delivered on to my work within 2 hours. All DPD had to do was get my parcel to the DPD pickup shop which is on my way home from work, its like 2-3 miles from the depot tops. They didnt get it there, customer services span me an excuse that the depot manager said they didnt have time as the wagon was late. It's true it was late, but Interlink had time to get their packages out. I pointed this out and they had to backtrack pretty quick and apologise and promise to investigage why the story from the depot clearly was a crock of ****. I'm not holding my breath though. It's not the first time my AE order has not got to where it is supposed to be. Not sure if its just DPD in Aberdeen who are useless, or DPD nationwide?

I collected from depot, but didnt have time to plant last night due to other commitments. Plant quality from AE looks excellent though; gave them a spray with water and resealed the bag and I will plant them this evening.

Due to my lazy Amano's and advice from alto on my seperate thread about my MC in the plant forum, I have also ordered some additional clean up crew that should arrive on Wednesday next week. Looking forward to welcoming the following to Round Two:

1 x Zebra Big Line Nerite Snail
2 x Zebra Thorn Nerite Snail
5 x Yellow Fire Shrimp "Neocaridina Heteropoda var. Yellow"

I'll try to get some updates posted tonight after the new plants go in.


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## Wisey (29 Apr 2016)

Ok, partial rescape completed with the assistance of Brewdog Punk IPA. I should have called this tank the Punkscape.

First up I did some clearing out on existing plants, pruned back the Ech. Quadricostatus runners in a big way as they had gone wild. Also cut back the Hydrocotyle hard as it's not looked great recently. I also trimmed the MC to get rid of some of the crud buts. Inevitably removed some good too, but hopefully it picks up now.

Next up I cleared out the Pogo, lifted out the two rocks at the back left and hoped I could remove the tights full of pea shingle without disturbing the Alternanthera. I recruited Mrs Wisey to assist with a slow syphon while I lifted it out. It turned out that half the Alternanthera had rooted in to the bloody tights and lifted with it! I pulled most of it up and filled in the back with fresh Tropica soil.

Next job was new plants. The Ludwigia Palustris Red went in the back right by the bogwood. Most of the C. Balansae went in the back left corner with a few bits planted behind the bogwood. The C. Wendtii Mi Oya filled in between the C. Balansae and the existing Mi Oya. I then planted the C. Petchii in front of the C. Balansae at the back left.

Next job was getting the Alternanthera back in. I had to trim the roots to aid in replanting, but without the rocks there I planted them in a much more pleasing grouping instead of the shape they were before. I also left a small space to the left where I intend to plant some S. Repens from the propagator when I have some lands ready, probably at water change next week of not before.

The new Koralia is in to replace the skimmer too. Phone FTS coming up...


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## Wisey (29 Apr 2016)




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## Lindy (29 Apr 2016)

Tank looks great. Must be frustrating to be considered 'highlands' when you are in Aberdeen lol..I get annoyed when companies treat where I live as an inaccessible place when it is on the south West coast of Scotland below Glasgow.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## Wisey (30 Apr 2016)

Aaargh, spotted more BBA! Some has appeared on the bogwood, more on the Anubias and even a few spots on a couple of the Alternanthera leaves. This has all happened since I thought that Otto was unhappy and reduced the CO2. I have tweaked it up a little higher tonight. Just starting to get this scape looking how I want it, will be really pissed if BBA takes over.


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## Wisey (3 May 2016)

Fish were perfectly happy with the CO2 level, so I tweaked it up again this evening and with it just about to turn off, fish are just fine. Hopefully this will help with the MC as well as fight the BBA.

I had a tidy up this evening, removed a few straggly leaves from the new Crypts, replanted the Petchii a little deeper as the roots were exposed in the flow then started work on the BBA. Some had appeared on the Alternanthera, but only on old lower green leaves, so I trimmed off as many affected leaves as I could see. I tried to remove some from the Anubias, but the whole front section came off, it seems the rhizome has a brown section in the middle, maybe a bit rotten. 3 of the 5 leaves on the section that came off had BBA, so I just binned it. Neither of the front two Anubias have seemed happy since the rescape, I kinda feel the scale of these are wrong at the front anyway, so might remove these if I continue to get stunted leaves and BBA. With this area being right under the violet and sheltered by the Ech. Quadricostatus, it's never going to get much flow, so not sure anything will ever work here? Maybe I just need to let the Echinodorus take over.

Last job was to trim 12 stems of S. Repens from the propagator, clip off all but the top leaves and plant in the gap to the left of the Alternanthera. It should get good flow and CO2 though, so fingers crossed it gets roots established over the next week or two and takes off.


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## Wisey (3 May 2016)

The S. Repens. Alternanthera is colouring up a bit more now.


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## Wisey (25 May 2016)

Well it has been a while since I posted an update. A fair bit has happened in that time and I was away from home for a while, about 10 days, so the tank was just running on automation while I was away with fingers crossed.

A few days before we went away I increased the CO2 yet again, monitored the fish for two days and all seemed fine so decided that as the tank is automated apart from water change, I would just set up the auto-feeder and leave things running as normal, no changes to CO2 or lighting period etc. I had hoped that while I was away, the increased CO2 would improve things, but on returning home, not really the case. Sure, things had grown, but the MC was still a real mess and there was much more BBA on the Anubias at the front, on the bogwood, on some of the stones and also on some of the older lower leaves of the Alternanthera. On closer inspection also some filamentous algae, what appears to be staghorn, had also joined the party. Argh! To add insult to injury, there was even one bit of BBA growing on my drop checker, as if to say look at me, you still don't have your CO2 right!

Not all negative though, the Alternanthera had taken off in growth and the S. Repens had more than doubled in height. The new Crypts were looking good, but the Balansae had really grown and is swamping the Petchii in front of it. It's also in the wrong place, being in the back left. The initial plan was height on the right and lower plants on the left. The new Ludwigia Palustris has not done well, it grows like a weed, but does not turn red and does not grow straight up, possibly due to flow. It comes out of the substrate, grows forwards for 2-3 inches, then grows up and looks a right mess. It also has no hint of turning red and a lot of the stems were ragged and looked to have some damage to them, I think it gets moved around in the flow to much. It's therefore coming out later this week and the Crypt. Balansae will move to the back right corner.

Fish all seemed happy on my return, the only casualty while away appears to have been one of the two horned nerite snails. A shame as they are really cool little guys, but still have one more plus the big zebra nerite.

I had a really good clean up in the tank, removed all the Ludwigia, removed some BBA, gave the MC a really drastic cut right back to the substrate in the hope that it will pick up and improve and removed the front piece of Anubias that had BBA on it. I managed to salvage two small pieces with two leaves on each which I have glued to two small stones and put in the propagator with the roots just in to the soil, so will see if they survive. I also increased the CO2 again and did a big water change, about 70% as it had been over a week. There was a slight smell from the tank, not bad, but just a slight hint that things were not as clean as they could be. I have done another water change since the first and intend to do another one tomorrow after moving those Crypts around. While the water is low I will have another go at scrubbing more BBA from the bogwood and try to trim out the bottom leaves of the Alternanthera that have BBA on them. There was also some BBA in the MC, but I got most of this out with the trim.

I'm in two minds what to do with the Alternanthera. It's getting a bit too tall now so needs some sort of maintenance. I'm very tempted to trim the tops off which gives me access to the base of each plant, I can then easily remove all the BBA covered leaves, leave the base of the plant rooted and then replant the tops. I think thats the best way to get it clean and tidy. If anyone has other suggestions, let me know.

The S.Repens has grown, but has some brown tinges to the edges of some leaves. I think these are the old emmersed growth though, new growth looks ok so not too worried yet. Thinking about bringing some more from the propagator and expanding the planting a little more.

I'm not convinced that my auto dosing is working correctly, so before I went away I put tape at the level on each container to see how much was used when I was away. It actually seemed to be about right, but maybe a bit more Micro than should be going in. I then had a look and noticed that the Micro tube was empty, right from the tank, back through the pump, past the non-return valve and there was just a little bit of the tube full above the container. I removed the tubes from the tank and set them up over measuring containers, the Macro dispensed the correct amount, but the Micro did seem to be a bit over, more like 15ml instead of 11ml. I mixed up a fresh batch of both Macro and Micro and have switched back to manually dosing 25ml on alternate days as per EI. Not sure what I am doing to do with the auto-doser yet, I want to get it working again, but with it not being able to alternate days, I am tempted to have it set up with an all-in-one solution dosed daily from one pump and leave the other empty for now, maybe adding liquid carbon to it at a later date to try and combat the BBA.

Anyway, things are clearly not in the best shape, but its not a total disaster. I have dropped the intensity of my light to 80%, just to take my foot of the accelerator a little and I upped the CO2 two days ago. It seems to be a pretty fast stream now, but with the two powerheads I do have a little surface ripple that I didnt have with just the violet. My DC was cleaned out and I checked yesterday and it was green at lights on. By CO2 off at 10 PM it was most definitely yellow, but the fish did not seem at all bothered. I checked again today, green at lights on. I'll monitor again tonight and ensure the fish are not distressed.


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## Wisey (25 May 2016)

A quick phone pic before any changes to show the growth. It was only looking back at the FTS from early May today that I realised just how much things like the Crypt. Balansae have grown.


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## Wisey (26 May 2016)

As planned a bit of work has gone on today during an extra water change. I moved all the C. Balansae plants to the back right corner where the Ludwigia Palustris has been removed. I then moved some of the C. Petchii back in to the gap to give it some space as it was smothered by the Balansae behind and the Alternanthera in front and has just not grown at all since it went in. Hopefully now with more space and light it will take off.

I started trimming tops off the Alternanthera, but it was clear that what was underneath was really not in great shape. I therefore trimmed all the healthy tops off first and separated those, then trimmed what was left right down to the substrate removing all the old green leaves and the BBA. I left the stumps and roots and will see if these come back up. I then removed all the lower leaves from the healthy tops and replanted those back in around the stumps. Hopefully they will root soon and it will all grow in better, it looks a real mess at the moment, but should improve soon I hope.

Other than that it was just a quick scrub at a few more bits of BBA and a general tidy up. I did notice that since cutting the MC back hard there is new fresh growth in the last day or two which looks healthy, so fingers crossed with the increase in CO2 and a slight drop in light, the MC is now going to grow ok.


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## Wisey (26 May 2016)

Here's a quick phone FTS after the changes today. I think it's better with the height decreasing from right to left as was originally intended.





I've decided to ease back on the CO2 a little this evening. Although the fish seemed OK, I'm not comfortable pushing in to the yellow, especially seeing as I'm going away this weekend.

Thanks to alto for mentioning toxicity from dosing ferts. This came back to mind today and I did some research and interestingly discovered a few topics on micro toxicity in soft water. This would certainly fit with my water parameters, the fact my micro seems to have been overdosing a fair bit and also the pics and descriptions match some of my plant issues, plus people talk about getting BBA even after pushing CO2 very high. This all seems to fit. I'm back to manual dosing now, unfortunately I had put in 25ml of micro after today's large change, but I'll ease back now. I'll dose macro in the morning, rest over the weekend and next week reduce my micro dosing and see if that helps with the BBA. People report plants improving and BBA die back after doing this, so it's worth a shot as I can't put more CO2 in.


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## Wisey (20 Jun 2016)

I have just been away in the US for a week. I did leave everything running with an auto-feeder, but with there being some algae issues I dropped the light to 5 hours at 50%. As I was on manual dosing again now, I put in a large macro dose before I left and hoped for the best. There was actually good growth on everything while I was away, but that unfortunately also included the BBA and Staghorn. Due to an international relocation, I now need to tear this tank down and rehome all my livestock, I have started a thread here:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/rehoming-my-fish-shrimp-snails-aberdeen-scotland.41750/

It seems that last FTS late May will be the best the tank ever looks, I don't feel its worth fighting the algae now as I will need to remove the plants to get the livestock out anyway. With a move to the US on the cards and all my electrical equipment being 230 volts there will be quite a lot of kit going on the for sale forum once I get the livestock re-homed. I'll still be active on the forums, but once this goes it will probably be 2017 before I get an aquarium up and running again in the US.

If anyone is in the Aberdeen area, or knows someone that is and can help rehome the livestock it would be appreciated. I don't want anything for them, would just prefer that I knew they were going on to a decent home.


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## Chris Jackson (20 Jun 2016)

Happy moving Wisey, sounds exciting, though you might have to move back if Trump gets elected!


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## chrism (20 Jun 2016)

Chris Jackson said:


> Happy moving Wisey, sounds exciting, though you might have to move back if Trump gets elected!


Or maybe somewhere else if we vote to leave.

Seriously though, you must be super excited!  Looking forward to seeing your first tank Stateside!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wisey (29 Jun 2016)

So the end is here! All the fish, shrimp and snails went to my LFS yesterday in search of a new home. I tore down the tank and spent all day today cleaning everything ready for sale. Check out my sale thread, everything must go!

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/everything-must-go-loads-of-stuff-for-sale.41821/


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