# Lily pipes, worth the money?



## gixer

Hi guys,

I am expecting my Eheim 2026 early next week and am wondering if it's worth buying a lily pipe?

If so is it worth just buying the outlet or both the outlet and inlet?



My tank is a 120l 100x30x40 
It is low tech with no CO2 system and a 1x38w T8.

It's planted with.
Echinodorus "Jaguar"
Cryptocoryne Wendtii "Mi Oya"
Anubis Nana
Vallisneria Spiralis
Valisneria americana
Microsorum pteropus "Windelov"
Cabomba caroliniana
Bacopa caroliniana

And i have these fish
4 x Corydoras Schwartzi
3 x Corydoras Melini
11 x Harlequin Rasbora
1 x Angel fish
4 x Dwarf Neon Rainbows


Cheers
Mark


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## willson

On a side note how do you clean them?


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## ceg4048

Lily pipes have no known technological advantage despite vendor claims. They neither improve flow rate nor do they provide a better flow distribution as compared to the output pipes supplied with your filter. 

They are very elegant though, and because they are usually made of glass they visually disappear in the tank. A combination of glass lily pipes and glass inlet tubes is an excellent alternative to the stock plumbing hardware - from an aesthetic viewpoint. On the down side you have to be careful with the handling and they are outrageously expensive. They can be cleaned using a flexible brush.

Cheers,


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## bugs

Personally I wouldn't have glass. I prefer function over form, although I don't deny the aesthetics of glass are far superior. I also couldn't be doing with something so fragile around me. I use the JBL plastic lily pipe. It is quite large, however, I don't find that a particular problem. 

From a practical point of view...
In my experience I've found the outflow from the JBL is gentler on small fish, particularly useful given the high flow rate of filters used in planted tanks. Also, if you can get the positioning just right they produce an occasional vortex and keep the water surface quite clean.


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## gixer

Woww 

Good job i asked before handing over me cash then thanks guys.


I was lead to believe that the lily pipes circulated water better than the stock outlets, that was really my only influence in buying one.

I'll save me money now, thank you 



Cheers
Mark


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## nry

The lily pipe outlet shape is better suited (sometimes!) to Co2 using tanks as it can be set to barely disturb the surface whilst still keeping the water surface clear.  Certainly works for me in respect to surface clearing but made diddly all difference to my CO2 usage.  I went for inlet/outlet as much for aesthetics as my tank is quite small (15 UK gallon) and I have nothing to hide the pipes behind.


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## ceg4048

Hi,
    If you were to fill you filter with some sort of dye you'd be able to see the flow patterns into the tank as it exits the pipe. Some lily pipes point up while others point down. The problem is that they provide a single point flow along a straight line parallel to the long axis of the tank. This flow shape is conical so that it spreads out as it travels along the flow line. While this creates turbulence at the outlet and at the center of the tank the extreme corners of the tank are less affected.

If you mount a spray bar at the back of the tank wall, you'll find that a much larger flow pattern comes forward, strikes the front glass heads downwards, strikes the substrate and heads aft towards the back wall and up again. This is a much broader circular pattern that tends to catch the corners better because as the flow strikes the front substrate some flow leaks out left and right.

Because the outlet pressure is distributed between the seven or eight holes in the bar there is less turbulence and a smoother flow. To gently disturb the surface you either rotate the bar so that the holes point slightly upwards, or you raise the level of the bar and keep the holes parallel to the surface of the water.  To get a more even flow you can gang multiple bars together so that you cover a greater distance along the back. This has the advantage of reducing turbulence for the fish due to the exit velocity decrease as the number of holes increases.

This method of using the bar helps to throw CO2 laden water down towards the carpet plants more directly so I think it's a better option for CO2 distribution.

None of this may make a difference on small tanks but as the tank size increases it becomes much more important.

I don't want to slam lily pipes because many people use them with great success, but I try to give myself every advantage at growing the plants successfully first. I view the whole lily pipe frenzy now with skepticism because I've tried them and found that I have better growth and less stress with the cheesy green plastic spray bar that came with my filter. If you raise the bar high enough along the back you'll hardly notice the irritating "EHEIM" banner  

Cheers,


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## Martin

Wouldn't it be good if someone invented a glass spraybar, that was very cheap! I think we would all buy one of them.


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## Ed Seeley

Well it's not cheap but here you go!

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=768


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## gixer

Â£60   *gulp*


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## Dave Spencer

Aesthetics are important to me. Sufficiently important, in fact, that I spend a lot of money going for the glass/minimalist look.

Water movement and distribution seems adequate to me.

Accept no crappy looking plastic substitutes.  

Dave.


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## George Farmer

Dave Spencer said:
			
		

> Aesthetics are important to me. Sufficiently important, in fact, that I spend a lot of money going for the glass/minimalist look.
> 
> Water movement and distribution seems adequate to me.
> 
> Accept no crappy looking plastic substitutes.
> 
> Dave.



I'm with Dave.

For me the tank is an interior design feature, as well as pretty garden containing animals.  Form and function.

I can't stand green or black plastic pipes on view. 

I also find that CO2 mist distribution is best using a 'point source' output rather than a spray bar, unless the spray bar is mounted vertically.  Obviously this isn't an issue for inline diffusers.

I've got two sets of lily pipes in the 120cm and one set in my 80cm.  They don't need cleaning as much as I'd thought.  The clear hoses on the other hand...

My next indulgence will be CO2 inline diffusers to remove yet more gear from the picture.


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## Garuf

You going to go for one of the cal aqua inlines George or something different?
I'm still thinking of diying one I just cant find all the parts needed.


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## George Farmer

Garuf said:
			
		

> You going to go for one of the cal aqua inlines George or something different?
> I'm still thinking of diying one I just cant find all the parts needed.



I think Aqua Essentials are getting some new types in....


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## bugs

My plastic pipes are developing a lovely covering of algae - it fits in with the natural look that I like but a look that I accept is not in vogue at the moment. Algae covered plastic without the risk of breakage is the place I like to be.


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## sks

I plan to use some lily pipes in the future, but this will be on aesthetic grounds, and nothing more. I know they are expensive, but they do make the tank look nicer, and since it is regarded by many as a piece of furniture in the living room it stands to reason that most would want it to look nice.

I still don't understand why they should be made of glass. Maybe someone should have a word with Eheim and start getting them to do transparent pipes and spray bars (AE already have a transparent spray bar for sale). Mind you we probably have to get the plastics rights since the plastic Eheim uses blush under the lights, so acrylic cast items might be the order of the day. Unfortunately if they are to be made in acrylic it might work out much more expensive than glass!!! (We can't extrude/blow acrylic since that causes crazing over time, as anyone who bought cheap acrylic cups will tell you).

I'm a clumsy person at times, and the last things someone who is clumsy needs is to be around is delicate glassware, that's why I use plastic Eheim gear.


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## nry

More to the point - why doesn't someone make some high quality clear acryilc lily pipes and spraybars?  Surely they'll be hard to distinguish from glass and a darn sight cheaper to buy and harder to break?


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## sks

making acrylic spray bars is trivial. I just go to a plastic supplier and get the right kind of acrylic tubing similar to my Eheim spray bars. Unfortunately I either have to drill the holes or pay the place to drill them for me, I will choose the latter since they have better equipment and are more accurate than me doing it by hand.

Now making the walking sticks is a bit difficult. If you look a the Eheim walking sticks they are heat formed, they were originally straight but bent by heat to shape. You can do that to acrylic but unfortunately the temperature would be nasty and toxic fumes might result, not to mention you have to make sure that the tube being bent does not collapse into itself. This is why you hardly ever get acrylic U tubes or 90 degree bends that are smooth, they're usually pieces of acrylic tubing cut at 45 degrees and glued together to form the square corners, which does not look nice. At least with glass you can do this relatively safely (there are no acrylic blowers to my knowledge).

The other option is to make acrylic moulds that you pore the plastic onto, but moulds are horrendously expensive and you need to be sure of return of investment - just ask those companies that make moulds for undergravel filter plates.


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## gixer

Be nice to see the different liliy pipes/spray bars etc people are using.


Come on show us your lily pipes 










Cheers
Mark


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## Ray

I won't show my lilly pipe but here is another alternative over on the Barr report in this thread (http://www.barrreport.com/general-p...n-rimless-starfire-wood-scape-thus-far-4.html) Tom shows how he has drilled his tanks for filter in and out.  He shows us a tank he already did (thanks for the photo Tom):






Tom says:



> The lok line has 2 pipes to direct water at any angle I want and will give good turbulence on the surface on one side and the other will blast along the front of the tank.



I think this will give good flow, is adjustable and is very discreet once you have plants and substrate.  What do people think - isn't this less faff than lilly pipes and better looking than spraybars?  Any risk of leaks from bulkheads?

Cheers,

Ray


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## Vase

Thats a lot of water to siphon out if the external springs a leak  :? 

Do lilly pipes alow return water to blast out into the tank? I'd imagine spray bars would be a bit more gentle, especically when housing Discus or something. Or am I way off?


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## ceg4048

Well, these are all single port outlets so right at the exit point the velocity is high. Some pipes have an upturned nozzle to direct the flow towards the surface. Others are down turned nozzles so you get a diagonal blast. I recall that the fish figure out to avoid the line of fire though so that may not be such a big problem. As Dave and George point out , the visual aspect of their tank configuration is a top priority for them so whatever disadvantages exist are outweighed by the aesthetic appeal of their pipes.

I'll stick with my "eheim garden hose" spraybar look for now until I figure a way to swallow the price of those glass bars. (double gulp)  

Cheers,


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## Lisa_Perry75

I would like to know how lilypipes are supposed to attach, are you just supposed to wedge the filter tube onto the glass? Push it really hard and perhaps smash the glass???


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## Vase

I think they have suckers that fix to the outside of the tank, although I could be wrong


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## Lisa_Perry75

I mean how do you attach the filter to the lily pipes...


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## Garuf

the pipe slips over the top of the lily just like how they how airlines do on non returns.
the glass is stronger than we give it credit for. I wouldn't get lily's again though, I'm starting to favour drilled tanks.


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## Vase

My main tank is open topped so I do like the idea of them in that respect. They'll look better than dark tubing and elbows stuck over the tanks metal frame.
I wouldnt want them to turn the tank into rapids though


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## Garuf

They won't, the flow from lilys is incredibly mellow in comparison to spray bars. 
If the tank is being made to order look into having it drilled, http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo ... aping.html

looks much better doesn't it?


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## gixer

Really interesting idea.

Bit to much of a dramatic alteration for me though


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## gixer

Bit of an update.

Collected my new filter yesterday Eheim 2026, after a bit of faffing about trimming my canopy i got it fitted.

Boy it's only now i realise how totally inadequate my internal filter was.



Back onto topic though, the inlet and spray bar that come with the filter are dire 

I wouldn't mind if the inlet matches the type of green found in aquariums, but this huge green monstrosity just has to go.

AE sell a Eheim installation kit 1 & 2.
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=666
http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1773

I realllyyyyyyyy feel like i'm being taken for an idiot if i buy them though.
i can't help feel Eheim specifically made the stock inlet/outlet look THAT bad so they'd make more money by selling the upgrades   


So what lily pipes do you guys recommend?
It's mainly the inlet i want out the tank, but as i have Cardinals and Rasboras i'll need one with very small cutouts/holes.

I also like the idea that the holes go up to the water line, as it then pulls the debris from various heights.

So what inlets/outlets are you using and what do you recommend please?

Cheers
Mark


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## Vase

I'm guessing this might be as good a thread as any to post this link.

https://www.pisces-aqua.co.uk/acatalog/ ... _Pipe.html


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## gixer

Vase said:
			
		

> I'm guessing this might be as good a thread as any to post this link.
> 
> https://www.pisces-aqua.co.uk/acatalog/ ... _Pipe.html



Nice find 

Â£75 minimum is a bit of a downer though, they only do minimum 5m lengths as well, that'd be some shipping bill 


But if anyone was to buy some for themselves and have say 1.5m of 12mm clear piping with 3 x 90Â° bends and an end cap i'd be up fer buying it 


Cheers
Mark


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## Vase

Whoops I didnt see that. Sorry


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## gixer

No need to apologise mate, that's a great find by anyones standards.

You've also given me the idea of nipping around Athens tomorrow and seeing if i can find some 12mm clear pipe to make me own spray bar 


Great find thanks


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## GreenNeedle

Just to correct a previous post:

The Lily Pipes do not 'push water to the surface'.

Because more water is pushed out along the longest cut side than the shorter it creates a vortex at the surface which at the shortest cut pulls the water surface down slightly and then pushes the water underneath the surface which then in turn creates agitaion on the top..

Also depending on where you position the out and in you can get a lovely curcular circulation i.e. ifthe outlet is back corner pointing along the length and the inlet front corner then you get the current moving from right back corner to front right (which can be seen as the CO2 bubbles move around the tank.

As for price Aquatic Magic on ebay sell sets for about Â£30 which are the ones I use.

Andy


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## gixer

Thanks Andy.

It's mainly the inlet i want rid of the spray bar is pretty much out of sight.

I see they do a pair on the Aquatic Magic store, they're in Malaysia though.
There no where in Europe?

As i say i really like the idea that the inlet has holes up to the water surface, does this really make any difference in practice though?




Cheers
Mark


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## TDI-line

gixer said:
			
		

> Bit of an update.
> 
> Collected my new filter yesterday Eheim 2026
> 
> AE sell a Eheim installation kit 1 & 2.
> http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=666
> http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1773
> 
> Mark




Mark, i bought 2 x Eheim 2028 which come with the modular installation packs in the links above, i changed them back to the original eheim sheppards crook and spray bars as the flow was very poor through them.


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## gixer

Phew close call there then.

I was about to order some on-line *gulp*


I think i'll bite the bullet and order a lily pipe set from AE instead.
Anyone tried the cheaper ones from AE?


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## sks

Clear PVC pipe will "blush" over time under the bright lights, I'd be looking for an acrylic version of the lily pipes.


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## GreenNeedle

Mine were from Aquatic Magic as are a lot of the users on here.  They are very good for the price.  

They don't actually come from Aquatic Magic.  When you order things from him the pipes come direct from the glass blower.  Postage takes approx 10 days

There are also other cheap sellers on ebay but can't vouch for them.

The there are some budet ones on AE alongside the more expensive CAL and then the very expensive ADA.

Andy


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## gixer

Thanks Andy,

I really don't like ordering outside the EU as any time i do i inevitably up up spending hours in the Greek customs offices.

I'll order the cheap set from AE and try them, i'll let you guys know when they arrive and what they're like.




Cheers
Mark


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## gixer

Ordered these:

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... ts_id=1630

Stuff usually takes around a week to get here from the UK, i'll let you know what they're like 

Anyone else using these?




Cheers
Mark


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## gixer

That was bloody quick 

Not sure how they did it, but my order was sent by AE on Monday and it arrived today 
I've lived here for 9 years and i've NEVER had a delivery from the UK that quick.

Anyways both the inlet and outlet looked great to me, top quality.
I've not seen any other more expensive lily pipes to compare with but these looked great and seemed pretty sturdy.

The Outlet works great, it's slightly submerged and gives a nice little vortex around 2cm from the pipe exit.

Still pricey in my book for a couple of pieces of glass, but the tank does look a million times better than with the crap stock Eheim in/outlet.

Thanks to everyone for their input and help 


Cheers
Mark


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## paul.in.kendal

*Re:*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> I'll stick with my "eheim garden hose" spraybar look for now until I figure a way to swallow the price of those glass bars. (double gulp)


Ooh, ooh, Clive - AE are doing the glass spraybars half price now, down from Â£60 to Â£30.  Any good? http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=180_310&products_id=768


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## ceg4048

Hey, what a deal Paul :!: I've been saying for a year now that those things are so nice they'd be cheap at half the price! Now they are. Definitely, as Rambo says, GO FOR IT!

Cheers,


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## Voo

That's going to be very difficult to clean at the spray end. Even harder to get out the pesky snail shells that end up blocking the holes!


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## LondonDragon

Regarding the debate, just look at Tonys (Tonser) new setup and the glass wins everytime for looks! hehe


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## paul.in.kendal

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Definitely, as Rambo says, GO FOR IT!


 Ah - that's not quite what I meant, Clive!  I've made my decision (start off with standard spraybars) and I'm sticking to it!

After all, they're not half price for nothing - perhaps they're rubbish?!


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## ceg4048

Or, perhaps they were simply overpriced? Kind of like football T-shirts made in a Guangzhou China sweatshop for 20p and then sold to the British for Â£200?  

Cheers,


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## GreenNeedle

Just a quick tip on cleaning hard to reach places in tubes (especially glass)

I use this method monthly to clean the ball end of my inlet:

Get 2 x M3 nuts or smaller.  fill the sink so you can submerge the pipe without knocking it.  Let the nuts slide slowly along the pipe to the end (or hard to clean part.)

For my ball end I then twirl the pipe at many differing angles.  The corners of the nuts scrape all the 'crap' from the inside:

This pipe is about 2 years old

this is the ball end dirty:





And when last cleaned a few days ago:




No bleach needed unless thats what you want to do 

Be careful though.  Get carried away and you may break it.  Not from the nuts but from banging a seperate part on the edge of the sink   I have knocked these several times but these cheapos must be thicker than the quality ones 

AC


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## Egmel

Lakeland plastics used to sell what were called 'magic balls' for cleaning, basically small copper balls that you swill round in things like vases, I'm sure they'd work really well at cleaning these things.


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