# Is this Diatom algae?    :(



## Zak Rafik

Hi everyone
I have this brown stuff growing on my plants and substrate for the past 1 week.
Also I notice this stuff can be wiped away easily from the plants.

Can someone confirm if this is indeed diatoms and why I'm getting it after 1 year of having this tank?
How do you treat this?

Just for your info: I did a major plant replanting on one half of the tank and intend to do one more this week. 

Thank you and Cheers.


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## parotet

Yes, it looks like brown diatoms. I also had in my mature tank and I got rid of them with:

- regular filter cleaning (at least once a month while you have the problem. You don't want to find in your filter what you show on picture 2)
- light substrate siphoning (to get rid of the mulm)
- good siphoning of debris (dead leaves, dirt floating or over the substrate, etc.)
- more frequent and larger water changes

you will hear about light and flow, but my diatoms were under high and low flow/light... any of the combinations. Once I got my tank clean of debris and maintenance was on the top again, brown diatoms vanished

Jordi


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## Martin in Holland

If you can wipe it of easy with your finger, it's diatom...if not, it's probably BBA and/or GSA


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## Zak Rafik

parotet said:


> Yes, it looks like brown diatoms. I also had in my mature tank and I got rid of them with:
> 
> - regular filter cleaning (at least once a month while you have the problem. You don't want to find in your filter what you show on picture 2)
> - light substrate siphoning (to get rid of the mulm)
> - good siphoning of debris (dead leaves, dirt floating or over the substrate, etc.)
> - more frequent and larger water changes
> 
> you will hear about light and flow, but my diatoms were under high and low flow/light... any of the combinations. Once I got my tank clean of debris and maintenance was on the top again, brown diatoms vanished
> 
> Jordi



Hi Jordi
Thanks for your confirmation. This is the first time I'm having brown algae in a big scale and on different places.
After I posted this post, I came across a website which states the below:

_*Excess nutrients & organics*
(Newly set-up tank) The cycling period is a time where the water may contains *high levels of organic carbons* and No2 but low levels of No3 and Po4. Brown diatom algae seem to thrive in these conditions.
*
Water changes*
A good maintenance routine and regular water changes will help lot. 
*In established tank, if a brown algae bloom is followed by cyanobacteria, your problem is clearly due to dissolved organics compound in the water.* 
If you maintain good water quality, in time (weeks to a few months) the diatoms are likely to die back or even disappear._

I think the website is spot on with my tank's condition.
I do get BGA in my tank (small patches on the substrate facing the front glass panel).
After I treat the spots with H2O2, the BGA goes off and reappears after a few weeks.* BUT* I noticed that, this brown algae reappears first and after it has gone away in a few days, BGA appears on that spot.

My question is:
What is* dissolved organic compounds?* I tried to Google but the results are even more confusing or not relevant to this hobby.
What causes this and how to control it?

I would really appreciate you or our fellow members could shed some some light on this.
Cheers..


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## Paulo Soares

Good morning, 
I got the same issue in my previous two tanks. And for my concern that happens cause of revolving the substrate when we do a replant or touch stones or wood that are pretty down assembled in the substrate.

The tank has acumulate so much waste and detritous in the substrate that at the minimum touch there you go..  liberate amonia that is beneith the soil. And produce that effect on plants.

This happens more often in case we do not use fertil substrate but only grain and don´t have a good clean team. 

The waste (plants detrit and food remains) that are not being consumed by a clean team or the fish, as you know will slowly desintegrate and in the process passes through the grain and started to acumulate beneith the substrate and all over it as time goes by. 

In some cases like previous mine, last time i started to do a replant the amount of amonia relased was so high as soon as i took of a simple root of Pogostemon that my fish run away to a corner and and stay there with their breathe as you might imagine. 

I quickly took the amonia test and sudenly got spooked.. hell! Just like that in a blink. Now imagine the amount down there. Did an Imediate water change and of course never touch agais or do any replant, and a few months after the plants started to look much nier but i disassemble the tank anyway. 

Now In my new tank i give less food, have less fish also, and put 30 Cristal Red and Amano Shrimp also as Clean Team and others. And of course i have fertil substrate. Not only the Ada Amazonia but all the concept (Power Sand as Fertil)

Also put my Inflows (got 2) Lily Pipes right next to substrate. Really really touching the substrate down there. This way i have water suction right next to the substrate. Some people put their Inflows at the midle of the glass and so they don´t have  good circulation where is needed: Down there!

These are my conclusions to that brown colour in plants. 

HUgs to all


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## Paulo Soares

Zak Rafik said:


> What is* dissolved organic compounds?*



Guess you have the answer above in my coment. 

Big hug,


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## Paulo Soares

*What is a dissolved organic compound?*

An organic compound is any compound that contains one or more atoms of carbon. Natural waters, freshwater aquariums and saltwater aquariums contain a great variety of soluble organic compounds. These include such compounds as sugars, fatty acids, humic acids, tannins, vitamins, amino acids, proteins and urea. Suspended organic matter in water includes remains of organisms in various stages of decay and living phytoplankton, zooplankton, fungi and bacteria. Sometimes each of the concentrations of individual organic compounds is not measured. Instead it is more common to measure total particulate organic matter, biochemical oxygen demand, or chemical oxygen demand. These variables are indicative of the total quantity of organic matter in water.


*So where do they come from?*

The major source of dissolved organics in aquaria is the natural biological processes that accompany having a tank full of fish that are fed often. Fish feed, fish wastes and other particulate organic material are colonized by bacteria which break the material down into dissolved substances. The basic step is for particulate carbon to become dissolved carbon. More fish and more fish feed means a higher concentration of organic substances.



* 
How to control excess dissolved organic compounds?*

There are many ways to control the amount of organic carbon in your system. Remember, there are two general types of organic material: particulate and dissolved. There are ways to remove both from your aquarium.

First, limit the amount of particulate carbon in your aquarium. This does not mean reducing the number of fish in the tank or reducing the feeding amount (but these would surely help). It means cleaning the mechanical filter component of your filtration systems often.

The filter pad is where a majority of the particulate material will get trapped. If your system is heavily stocked you might have to clean this every couple of days but the reward will be worth it. Organic material trapped on the filter pad is of no benefit to the aquarium environment - remove it often. Some people use charcoal in their filters to help remove some of this material.

Next, if your aquarium has a substrate; clean it regularly with a siphon action gravel washer. The gravel at the bottom of an aquarium is a good place for particulate organic material to collect - so getting rid of this material will help.

Getting rid of the organic material on a regular basis will go a long way towards keeping an aquarium healthy and keeping disease away. So how often is a regular basis?

That has to be decided on an aquarium by aquarium basis. If you have a lot of fish and feed a lot you'll have to clean the mechanical filter and substrate more often than a person with a few fish who feed sparingly. The major way to get rid of dissolved organic carbon is water changes. This is a simple method but most people are a little lazy about this. 

The people with saltwater tanks are very concerned about dissolved organics. They use protein skimmers, meters and control devices for ORP, ozone, and other things specifically made to control the compounds.

People with freshwater planted aquariums have the added benefit that plants are able to help with this by using some of these organics. By doing 50% water changes, cleaning filters regularly, correct fertilization, not overfeeding, and doing all the necessary maintenance involved helps to promote a healthy aquarium.


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## Zak Rafik

Just read this great article at Barr Report titled: 
*Dissolved, Particulate and Microbial Biomass Organic Carbon
(DOC, MBC, and POC)*

Although it was quite technical in nature, it did provide some necessary information.


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## Zak Rafik

Paulo Soares said:


> Good morning,
> I got the same issue in my previous two tanks. And for my concern that happens cause of revolving the substrate when we do a replant or touch stones or wood that are pretty down assembled in the substrate.
> The tank has acumulate so much waste and detritous in the substrate that at the minimum touch there you go..  liberate amonia that is beneith the soil. And produce that effect on plants.
> This happens more often in case we do not use fertil substrate but only grain and don´t have a good clean team.
> The waste (plants detrit and food remains) that are not being consumed by a clean team or the fish, as you know will slowly desintegrate and in the process passes through the grain and started to acumulate beneith the substrate and all over it as time goes by.
> In some cases like previous mine, last time i started to do a replant the amount of amonia relased was so high as soon as i took of a simple root of Pogostemon that my fish run away to a corner and and stay there with their breathe as you might imagine.
> I quicly took the amonia test and sudenly got spooked.. hell! Just like that in a blink. Now imagine the amount down there. Did an Imediate water change and of course never touch agais or do any replant, and a few months after the plants started to look much nier but i disassemble the tank anyway.
> Now In my new tank i give less food, have less fish also, and put 30 Cristal Red and Amano Shrimp also as Clean Team and others. And of course i have fertil substrate. Not only the Ada Amazonia but all the concept (Power Sand as Fertil)
> Also put my Inflows (got 2) Lily Pipes right next to substrate. Really really touching the substrate down there. This way i have water suction right next to the substrate. Some people put their Inflows at the midle of the glass and so they don´t have  good circulation where is needed: Down there!
> These are my conclusions to that brown colour in plants.
> HUgs to all



Thanks for the info. Yes, the situation you have described seems familiar to me too.
I guess the organic waste in my tank comes not from fish or food as I have a pitiful collection for a 4 feet tank. The problem in my tank most probably is coming from the dead leaves and plants at the bottom of the tank. As I have mentioned many many time in this forum, my plants are still melting at the lower level and no matter how much Co2 is dosed ( to the extent of fish gasping everyday during Co2 on).

I may be having too much dead plant matter and not enough dissolved O2 in the water column via surface agitation for the bacteria to break down dead matters. Am right right to say this?
Cheers.


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## Paulo Soares

Zak Rafik said:


> my plants are still melting at the lower level and no matter how much Co2 is dosed ( to the extent of fish gasping everyday during Co2 on).



They are diying cause of those huge amounts of organic waste and amonia in the substrate. 
It has nothing to do with Co2.. i came across the same issue as you. I do remember reading your posts. 

Now i have all those plants that usually did melt growing perfelctly and believe me when i said this:

I never thought i could have my plants as i do now.. shining so bright, with such llovely colours that everytime i look at the tank i go like this : 

Ammania Bonsai, Utricularia etc. etc. 

And now i have the same amounts of CO2 than before in the other tank. 

The only thing i did was change the substrate and put the inflows as i mentioned. 

In this forum people always tend to input guitly on Co2.. forgget about it. Plants only need 20 to 30 PPm of it.
I my tank according to the drop checker colour i probably have around 20 PPm of CO2. 

Best regards

P.S. One big important thing: I stoped dosing "Ei". I do ADA ferts. Only K and Step 1. I do not ad PO4 and other salts as you do in EI.
Other friends of mine here in Portugal that used to have the same problem do now Tropica ferts, or Kramer or Easy Life Profito.


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## Zak Rafik

Paulo Soares said:


> They are diying cause of those huge amounts of organic waste and amonia in the substrate.
> It has nothing to do with Co2.. i came across the same issue as you. I do remember reading your posts.
> 
> Now i have all those plants that usually did melt growing perfelctly and believe me when i said this:
> 
> I never thought i could have my plants as i do now.. shining so bright, with such llovely colours that everytime i look at the tank i go like this :
> 
> Ammania Bonsai, Utricularia etc. etc.
> 
> And now i have the same amounts of CO2 than before in the other tank.
> 
> The only thing i did was change the substrate and put the inflows as i mentioned.
> 
> In this forum people always tend to input guitly on Co2.. forgget about it. Plants only need 20 to 30 PPm of it.
> I my tank according to the drop checker colour i probably have around 20 PPm of CO2.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> P.S. One big important thing: I stoped dosing "Ei". I do ADA ferts. Only K and Step 1. I do not ad PO4 and other salts as you do in EI.
> Other friends of mine here in Portugal that used to have the same problem do now Tropica ferts, or Kramer or Easy Life Profito.



Thanks for your kind reply. I understand now what seems to be the problem in my tank. I have posted  about my plants and shrimps dying for no reason and all replies says " there is something toxic in your tank" but I can't seem to find out what it is. Now maybe, just maybe, I'm nearing the solution to my  mysterious toxicity in the tank. 

Oh how I wish I can dose ADA products or even EasyLife!!! For a 4feet tank, it's going to be mighty expensive. 
Do I have a choice?


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## ian_m

I got diatoms when starting my high tech tank up, despite rotating the reflectors on my T8 tubes round to keep light level low. Sometimes has almost starting appeared again after major plant shuffling.

Couple of Otto's scoffed the lot in a day or two.


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## xim

Emphasising too much about CO2, talking into their ears everyday, “That's because you don't 
have enough CO2”, can lead to overshooting. Bacteria can't do their jobs effectively with 
escalated level of CO2.

Tom Barr's suggestion for BGA is usually adding more NO3. Despite the fact that it's more 
about organic waste. May be he thinks everybody is already aware that you should keep your 
tank clean but doesn't know that low NO3 can also cause BGA. But his emphasis on the NO3 
has made newbies overlook the "maintenance" part and confuse what is more important.

My suggestion would be clean your tank and filter and make it friendly with both plants and 
animals (I mean algae crews). They will help keep your tank clean and save your time and 
effort. Now when I do water change, there is not much to do. I mean once I watched George 
Farmer's demonstration how to do a water change and I didn't believe it. Because it was so 
clean and there was virtually no detritus to suck that I thought he had done multiple-takes 
with that tank before the final video.  Now I know it could be real.


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## Zak Rafik

xim said:


> Emphasising too much about CO2, talking into their ears everyday, “That's because you don't
> have enough CO2”, can lead to overshooting. Bacteria can't do their jobs effectively with
> escalated level of CO2.
> 
> Tom Barr's suggestion for BGA is usually adding more NO3. Despite the fact that it's more
> about organic waste. May be he thinks everybody is already aware that you should keep your
> tank clean but doesn't know that low NO3 can also cause BGA. But his emphasis on the NO3
> has made newbies overlook the "maintenance" part and confuse what is more important.
> 
> My suggestion would be clean your tank and filter and make it friendly with both plants and
> animals (I mean algae crews). They will help keep your tank clean and save your time and
> effort. Now when I do water change, there is not much to do. I mean once I watched George
> Farmer's demonstration how to do a water change and I didn't believe it. Because it was so
> clean and there was virtually no detritus to suck that I thought he had done multiple-takes
> with that tank before the final video.  Now I know it could be real.



Hi Xim,
I feel really low today. 
I was shocked to see Diatoms on nearly 2/3 of my tank. This is the first time I'm seeing it on leaves on the upper level. And to add salt to injury, BGA has taken over the entire substrate on the front.
BBA is growing back very quickly and after more than 5 months, this morning, I'm seeing thread algae all over my wood.

I'm totally lost now. May I'll just give away the fish for free to someone and shut down the tank. Fighting BBA and see plants growing and melting on a daily basis for the past 9 months has taken away the interest in this hobby.
I've spent much $$ on new equipment (new bigger filters, spray-bars, liliy pipes, Co2 regulators, light sets, pumps), all with the hope that it might improve flow / Co2 distribution / lighting but the situation is wearing me down.

I apologize if I sound pessimistic to fellow members.


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## ltsai

Zak Rafik said:


> Hi Xim,
> I feel really low today.
> I was shocked to see Diatoms on nearly 2/3 of my tank. This is the first time I'm seeing it on leaves on the upper level. And to add salt to injury, BGA has taken over the entire substrate on the front.
> BBA is growing back very quickly and after more than 5 months, this morning, I'm seeing thread algae all over my wood.
> 
> I'm totally lost now. May I'll just give away the fish for free to someone and shut down the tank. Fighting BBA and see plants growing and melting on a daily basis for the past 9 months has taken away the interest in this hobby.
> I've spent much $$ on new equipment (new bigger filters, spray-bars, liliy pipes, Co2 regulators, light sets, pumps), all with the hope that it might improve flow / Co2 distribution / lighting but the situation is wearing me down.
> 
> I apologize if I sound pessimistic to fellow members.


  cheer up.


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## Paulo Soares

xim said:


> I mean once I watched George
> Farmer's demonstration how to do a water change and I didn't believe it.



Where is this? 
Can you point a link of it? 

I really would like to watch it. 

Thanks


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## xim

Paulo Soares said:


> Where is this?
> Can you point a link of it?
> 
> I really would like to watch it.
> 
> Thanks



Sure. Here it is.


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## Zak Rafik

xim said:


> Sure. Here it is.



But there's hardly any plants, just grass.  lol
And by the way, that's a small tank. If it's a Dutch style or a dense growth tank, I bet he'll take just as long as any of us. This guy is famous for such simplistic scapes where the layout with rocks is more prominent.


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## xim

Zak Rafik said:


> But there's hardly any plants, just grass.  lol
> And by the way, that's a small tank. If it's a Dutch style or a dense growth tank, I bet he'll take just as long as any of us. This guy is famous for such simplistic scapes where the layout with rocks is more prominent.



I meant the amount of debris. There is very little that it's like he could have just drained and refilled, the vacuuming he did seems superfluous.


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## parotet

xim said:


> the vacuuming he did seems superfluous.


That's all you need when you do it every week.... If you have more debris you probably didn't your homework or you have too much plant death in the tank.

Jordi


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## xim

parotet said:


> That's all you need when you do it every week.... If you have more debris you probably didn't your homework or you have too much plant death in the tank.
> 
> Jordi



Or excessive biofilm growth from unhealthy system.


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## Zak Rafik

Hi Guys.

I'm now full new energy to get up and and not give up so easily.
All thanks to my lovely wife who gave lots of encouragements.
I still remember when she said:
" Why did you get into this hobby? Think about that"
"If you want to bring a piece of nature into your home, you have to accept the fact that algae is also part of nature. Go out there and show me a pond or a lake or a stream which does not have algae" "Just give it some time and everything will work out fine"

I know this may seem simple but when I was confused, I was more focused on trying to think of all the possibilities on where I could have gone wrong. Her words really made a world of a difference to me and helped to reset my thought process.

And I have found out why I had this Diatom bloom all of a sudden.
A few days ago when doing the 50% water change, I had this sudden realization on the mistake I had done when doing the plant rearrangement.
You see, I had an Eheim pump placed near to the substrate a few months back,  just as what Paulo Soares had mentioned to improve the flow at the lower level. The new flow did bring much positive growth in plants.
But the mistake I made, was to have the pump running at full speed even when uprooting the plants. I did see much dirt flying about in the water column and I thought that this was good as I can remove them when taking out the water. This must have severely kicked up the ammonia and what not into the water and ultimately lead to a diatom bloom.
Now I realize that was a big NO NO!

Correct me if my observation is not right.

Now I'm in the process of taking off all plants which are not doing so good and put in more new and healthy plants. Previously I was too focused on trying to save dying plants.
Also I have wonderful friend of mine by the name of Dennis Wong in Singapore who has given me much needed tips. Here's a YouTube video of his. Please enjoy.
Cheers.


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## Paulo Soares

Man... for god sakes.. 
Golden rule: Everytime you start maintenance disconect all filters and pumps. And this inlcudes removing or replanting. 

I´m with you in that matter. It´s best to remove and put new plants to try to save older or afected ones. 

Now, if i were you i remove what i want to remove very slowly and carefully (even with all filters and pumps disconected) but really very very carefully. 
Took one plant out and let the tank relaxing for large minutes till the garbage and waste return to the ground. cause you´ll bring garbage in large amounts even taking out very carefully. You can´t do a thoig to avoid it.

Took out each one you intend to remove between large spaces of time. 

And don´t worry about the filter and the bacteria in it cause they will remain and live even kept stoped for 4 or 5 hours without any worries. Just dont´open any. 

Remove, leave the tank for a week and after that replant  
Don´t replant right after you remove older ones. 

If you do maybe you´ll see real melt all the way. 
Give it a relaxation SPA treatment for a week at list.  

Best Regards


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## Zak Rafik

Paulo Soares said:


> Man... for god sakes..
> Golden rule: Everytime you start maintenance disconect all filters and pumps. And this inlcudes removing or replanting.



Yes, lesson learnt. The hard way.



Paulo Soares said:


> Remove, leave the tank for a week and after that replant
> Don´t replant right after you remove older ones.


Good tip.


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## Zak Rafik

Just to update on my situation.
Diatoms are still in my tank and covering up much plants. Managed to clean those on glass and lily pipes but that's about it.
The whole tank looks a bit yellowish or orangey with the diatoms all over the tank..

A couple of questions:
1. Will water changes done twice a week help to bring down diatoms? Now it's once a week.
2.Some posts advice to bring down light while others mention to up the lighting or not change at all. Which is right?
_Quote:
"As this algae grows well in low light, reducing light levels doesn’t help and could out do the green algae, so adding more light could help to rid brown algae."_


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## ajm83

Zak Rafik said:


> 2.Some posts advice to bring down light while others mention to up the lighting or not change at all. Which is right?
> _Quote:
> "As this algae grows well in low light, reducing light levels doesn’t help and could out do the green algae, so adding more light could help to rid brown algae."_



I think they are both right. In my experience get diatoms when the water is polluted with organic waste.  

If the reason for the organic waste is because your lighting is a little too high (and therefore damaging the plants) then lowering it may help.

If that is not the reason, then lowering the light probably won't help, since diatoms can flourish even under low light conditions. You need to fix whatever the cause of the waste is (dirty filter, excess poo at the bottom of the tank, etc).


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## Zak Rafik

Not so good news.
The diatoms has started to spread even further. The tank condition is taking a nose dive.
PWC of 60% does not seem to help.
What do I do?


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## Iain Sutherland

Hi Zak, hate to say it but you have a whole mixture of algae in there, looks like a decent amount of BBA which is the black covering to your plants and moss, diatoms on the glass and BGA on the substrate.

You will need a plan to attack all of these with water changes daily, scrubbing, trimming, filter cleans and generally tidiness to even start to get on top of it.... however all of these things are a losing battle unless you resolve the issue in the first place.  You most likely have too much light, too little co2 and poor circulation around the tank.  You will need to address all of these one by one in order to get back on track.  

Unfortunately  we see this all too often, try to help with an algae issue via dialog and then later pictures get added that clearly show a dirty tank.  Dont let it get you down but you need to realise the correlation between hard work with regular thorough cleaning and good looking tanks that you aspire to.  One doesnt come without the other.

Do some reading about the various algae you have here 
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

Be meticulous with cleaning, ask questions, do some more cleaning, feed less, clean more, water change then clean a bit more followed by more water changes  
The video of Georges tank really is how a water change should look, if your sucking out loads of grime then something is wrong.

We are here to help so if you would like advise about flow, co2 and light ask away, could be well worth starting a journal and detail everything you are doing with as many pictures of your whole set up as possible, eventually you will get i cracked )


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## sinan m.d

Paulo Soares said:


> Good morning,
> I got the same issue in my previous two tanks. And for my concern that happens cause of revolving the substrate when we do a replant or touch stones or wood that are pretty down assembled in the substrate.
> 
> The tank has acumulate so much waste and detritous in the substrate that at the minimum touch there you go..  liberate amonia that is beneith the soil. And produce that effect on plants.
> 
> This happens more often in case we do not use fertil substrate but only grain and don´t have a good clean team.
> 
> The waste (plants detrit and food remains) that are not being consumed by a clean team or the fish, as you know will slowly desintegrate and in the process passes through the grain and started to acumulate beneith the substrate and all over it as time goes by.
> 
> In some cases like previous mine, last time i started to do a replant the amount of amonia relased was so high as soon as i took of a simple root of Pogostemon that my fish run away to a corner and and stay there with their breathe as you might imagine.
> 
> I quickly took the amonia test and sudenly got spooked.. hell! Just like that in a blink. Now imagine the amount down there. Did an Imediate water change and of course never touch agais or do any replant, and a few months after the plants started to look much nier but i disassemble the tank anyway.
> 
> Now In my new tank i give less food, have less fish also, and put 30 Cristal Red and Amano Shrimp also as Clean Team and others. And of course i have fertil substrate. Not only the Ada Amazonia but all the concept (Power Sand as Fertil)
> 
> Also put my Inflows (got 2) Lily Pipes right next to substrate. Really really touching the substrate down there. This way i have water suction right next to the substrate. Some people put their Inflows at the midle of the glass and so they don´t have  good circulation where is needed: Down there!
> 
> These are my conclusions to that brown colour in plants.
> 
> HUgs to all



I've been trying to solve this problem for 2 years. I was try everything, except fertil substrate.. Plants are very good right now. Thank you very much.


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