# ADA Video - WOW!



## Andy D (10 Oct 2013)

Apologies if this has been seen many times on here but just came across this video - Video : comment entretenir les plus grands aquascapings du monde ? | AQUA-BLOG


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (10 Oct 2013)

Thanks for sharing. Ive seen the monster before, but its nice to see a maintenance side of things.

Just shows how much hard work goes into keeping the Aquascape looking beautiful. That's Dedication (or money  )


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## Andy D (10 Oct 2013)

Probably need some money - Takashi Amano in the Wall Street Journal | Blog | Practical Fishkeeping


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## tim (10 Oct 2013)

Glad I don't need tools like that for my nano


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## Lee Sweeting (10 Oct 2013)

I still can't get over the size of these tanks, never get sick of watching that video. I would love a whole wall in my house, to be a tank. Not sure the misses would go for it though . Thanks for sharing Andy.


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## Samuran (11 Oct 2013)

Mind boggling... one question tho, when you see the back of the 7m tank you can see how deep the substrate is.... how do they stop all the anerobic bacteria building up?


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## Lee Sweeting (11 Oct 2013)

Samuran said:


> Mind boggling... one question tho, when you see the back of the 7m tank you can see how deep the substrate is.... how do they stop all the anerobic bacteria building up?


 

Hi Samuran,

I asked this question a while ago, and this is the answer i got from George Farmer> 


"Aqua Soil and similar products are very porous. They also promote great root growth that produces oxygen. These factors combined help minimise the risk of excess anaerobic bacteria etc".

Hope that helps?


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## Samuran (11 Oct 2013)

Hi Lee

Thanks for that, I didnt know if they used some kind of under substrate heating to induce convection currents through the substrate but I guess they don't need to.

Cheers
Ben


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## plantbrain (11 Oct 2013)

Where do you think aquatic plants grow naturally? In anaerobic soil.
All flooded submersed soil is anaerobic. Unless it's like pure sand or has no organic matter.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (11 Oct 2013)

plantbrain said:


> Where do you think aquatic plants grow naturally? In anaerobic soil.
> All flooded submersed soil is anaerobic. Unless it's like pure sand or has no organic matter.



I think that I this instance their questions on 'prevention of Anaerobic soil' is directed at fish health as oppose to plant health.


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## Aquadream (11 Oct 2013)

So this is how ADA keeps showing "pefect" looking tanks. Bunch of slaves are working their ass off.
It's impressive up to a point, but hardly correlates to any hobby.
Ultra high maintenance is not what I have in mind when setting up an aquarium.


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## plantbrain (11 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> I think that I this instance their questions on 'prevention of Anaerobic soil' is directed at fish health as oppose to plant health.


 

If it's anaerobic in the sediment, then by the very nature of anaerobic soil, you cannot have circulation from above, because then it would no longer be anaerobic, it would be aerobic.
If there's no circulation, then it cannot pose an issue because it's isolated from the aerobic zone where the livestock are. In both cases, plants and livestock, this should not be an issue, the same natural setting applied to fish in lakes and rivers, the sediment is still anaerobic other than a shallow small top layer, maybe 1-2 cm.


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## plantbrain (11 Oct 2013)

If you own 10 aquariums, then managing that will drain time and detail away from doing say 1-2 tanks VERY well.

George has 1 smaller tank, but he does a lot of nice work on it. I reduced the number down to 3(reef not included or holding tanks), but had 10-12 at one point.
I think the ferns, moss and rock/wood scapes, maybe a few stem plants trimmed once every 1-2 months is not a tough thing to manage.
You quickly learn which weeds will be trouble over time, and which will work out nicely.
But newbies rarely see the maturity in this advice.
Later, afterwards, they learn.

Like a Japanese garden in the terrestrial side, it takes a lot of labor.
Same with Bonsai. Reefs take less labor than planted tanks.  

But at this scale, they are willing to pay for the upkeep which is likely about 1000$ per service day.
General tending might be less, but may be done in house. What would they pay for a nice landscaped garden with a koi pond? 
More.

So it's a relatively good deal.

I'm struck as to why they do not do a large water change, then trim the lower sections.
Then refill and trim the top sections. This way you get a good water change and a good cleaning and trimming all in one go.
Glass suction disc can be used when you do the large water change to avoid touching the sediment and to use as hand holds.
Reef frag viewers work much better than that cheesy bucket.

As you can see, dealing with deeper tanks is a PITA, anything over about 100cm is insane. 
They spent  a few hours just trimming.
Then a few hours vacuuming the other tank.
Tanks this size will give you a bad heachache and cost a lot more than you think.
So having a couple of younger helper monkeys, certainly the way to go.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (11 Oct 2013)

plantbrain said:


> If it's anaerobic in the sediment, then by the very nature of anaerobic soil, you cannot have circulation from above, because then it would no longer be anaerobic, it would be aerobic.
> If there's no circulation, then it cannot pose an issue because it's isolated from the aerobic zone where the livestock are. In both cases, plants and livestock, this should not be an issue, the same natural setting applied to fish in lakes and rivers, the sediment is still anaerobic other than a shallow small top layer, maybe 1-2 cm.



Understood, but in the enclosed environment, when it comes to tank maintenance, the aquarist could unwillingly displace said anaerobic bacteria and this would cause problems.

Less so in a stream or river which has millions of times more volume than the aquarists tank to absorb any threat such as this.

I am not, however, arguing with someone of your stature about aquascaping 

Ps. Labor just looks wrong without a 'U' as does 'Color'


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## NatureBoy (12 Oct 2013)

bit too much disrespect being put on the employees for my liking, where's that coming from?


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (12 Oct 2013)

NatureBoy said:


> bit too much disrespect being put on the employees for my liking, where's that coming from?



I'd love to do their job!


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## NatureBoy (12 Oct 2013)

I'd go for a swim!


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## plantbrain (12 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Ps. Labor just looks wrong without a 'U' as does 'Color'


 

Hey, we love the way you say "Aluminum and Vitamins".
Keep the unique parts of the culture. It's what makes you who you are and different.


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## plantbrain (12 Oct 2013)

NatureBoy said:


> bit too much disrespect being put on the employees for my liking, where's that coming from?


 

They like the work, they are getting paid and they get to be Amano's minions.
The hours of work suck though, 12 am till about 6 am? 
Amano is likely too old and stiff to do this type of work.

These guys said they got nose bleeds from hanging upside down
You do get a massive headaches, I've never had a nose bleed though.

Still, they could avoid a lot of pain by doing the water change, it is NOT like they trim the tank daily, maybe once every month or two.
They at least do a 2x a month water change of 25-40%. That is what the water change is for mostly for deep tanks.
The smaller tank with the white sand, they could EASILY swim in the tank and stand on the sand.

It's like they are trying to make the labor harder on themselves or something, I'm not quite clear on that.


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## Ian Holdich (12 Oct 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Understood, but in the enclosed environment, when it comes to tank maintenance, the aquarist could unwillingly displace said anaerobic bacteria and this would cause problems.
> 
> Less so in a stream or river which has millions of times more volume than the aquarists tank to absorb any threat such as this.
> 
> ...




This really is a myth, talking about anearobic build ups in substrates...yes there will be build ups, there is many theories out there that plant roots use these nasties. The main nasty that is in this build up is hydrogen sulfide, this is the most dangerous.

However, In water, as soon as hydrogen sulfide comes into contact with any oxygen, it will become harmless. So, even if there is a pocket, and even if you accidentally stir it up, it will become harmless as soon as it hits your well-oxygenated water.

I'm also sure you'd need a bubble the size of the tank for it to actually do any damage, as these bubbles tend to rise so quickly, they don't even disapate in the water.


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## Ian Holdich (12 Oct 2013)

Diana Walstad in her book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium actually talks about the beneficial aspects of having anaerobic conditions under the substrate near the plant roots. She has around several inches of soil as the substrates in her tanks. The anaerobic bacteria will use most anything for an energy source, reducing nitrates is just one of them. The bacteria can also reduce iron, sulfur, manganese, and so on. The great thing for plants is that these reduced forms are much more easily taken up, so anaerobic conditions help the plants get their micronutrients.


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## plantbrain (13 Oct 2013)

H2S needs/requires a continued source of reduced carbon, the only REAL source of this might be an Aponogeton bulb that dies.  
This is basic stuff for wetland soil, and anyone worth their spit in that field.... knows it.

So unless you have a high loading rate of reduced carbon coming into the system, H2S is not going to hang around much. 
You need an on going supply of reduced carbon to cause an issue and this links into what Ian above is stating.
I use think if the sediment got too much mulm or organic matter, it might sour, and I'd deep vacuum that area etc. 
But then I studied wetland soils and plants.......

Then went back and tried it.

I have not been able to show that it's an issue since then, that was maybe 10+ years ago now. 
So I tentatively agree with Ian, it's a myth till someone can show me where it is not.


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## Samuran (14 Oct 2013)

I'm getting confused... I'm not in anyway trying to cause any kind of problem and want to understand so that when I go down the low tech tank route I don't make too many stupid mistakes...

So are you guys saying that this, taken from here, is wrong? or at least not worth worrying about?
"Soil depth
Well that’s the basic components explained all we need to do now is put them together. Start by placing your slightly moistened soil in the bottom of the tank to a depth of around 2cm, you can slope it up toward the back to 4cm or so if desired. Any deeper and there is a danger that the soil will become too anaerobic. Aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature and macrophytes have evolved to grow in them but if the sediment is too devoid of oxygen plants have to work harder to uptake nutrients from them. Further, heavy metals and hydrogen sulphide may reach levels toxic to aquatic life."

Cheers
Ben


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## Ian Holdich (14 Oct 2013)

Samuran said:


> I'm getting confused... I'm not in anyway trying to cause any kind of problem and want to understand so that when I go down the low tech tank route I don't make too many stupid mistakes...
> 
> So are you guys saying that this, taken from here, is wrong? or at least not worth worrying about?
> "Soil depth
> ...



I'd go as far to say that, that is incorrect (sorry Troi, no offence made by that)If you want a good read about low tech tanks, have a read of Diana walstads ecology of the planted aquarium. It's a heavy read at points, but a very good read. 
As Tom states, it's difficult to actually prove, but there's a myriad of people who have kept low tec and high tec tanks that don't stir substrates and don't have any problems. 
I mean why would you want to disturb substrates? I would be more worried about the ammonia spike after swirling your substrate around, due to all the crap floating around in you water. This will give you far worse problems.


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## Ady34 (14 Oct 2013)

These tanks are truly incredible!
Id be like to be a 'minion' working on tanks all day!
Lovin' the special 'ADA' grande exclusive range of cut bottle on the end of a broomstick, cable tied tweezer extension and scissors on hedge trimmers tools


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## BigTom (14 Oct 2013)

Samuran said:


> I'm getting confused... I'm not in anyway trying to cause any kind of problem and want to understand so that when I go down the low tech tank route I don't make too many stupid mistakes...
> 
> So are you guys saying that this, taken from here, is wrong? or at least not worth worrying about?
> "Soil depth
> ...


 

Ben, I've got soil and sand to as deep as 8" in my tank, and have never stirred, poked or even vacuumed it and never had any issues. I get a little gas bubbling up sometimes, but I think it's mainly co2 (have given it a good sniff a few times) and it's never caused problems.

The whole point of low tech is not having to worry about anything, so quit worrying


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## Samuran (15 Oct 2013)




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## viktorlantos (15 Oct 2013)

Seen this tank in person a week ago. All i can say this is freakin' awesome! All of them actually, but this giant is mind blowing.

3 or 4 guys do the maintenance work they are the heros


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr

8 hours at night 7 hours a week.... wow! It's a lot of work, but we did not even seen any floating leaf! Sand was like new on every tanks. This type of dedication is something what we can't do.
It's not only money and manpower. Full respect to them

I mainly spent the time on photography, but my business partner talked with the maintenance team.
This large tank get 500ml Brighty K only. No other ferts. They try to slow down the growth and not dose other things til they see defficiency.
On other tanks they do the regular fertilizer routine.

Some shots on the tanks


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


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## viktorlantos (16 Oct 2013)

Oh and a little trick  Some stems on the top is sitting in a pot, but this not deduct anything from the overall impression and beauty of these layouts


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (16 Oct 2013)

Any metal halides?!

Thanks Victor, shots are amazing.


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## Andy D (16 Oct 2013)

Great shots!


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## flygja (16 Oct 2013)

4 hours of maintenance every night! My tanks would look superb with that amount of maintenance too LOL. 

Viktor, I looked through your Japan trip photos. Even their fish holding tanks have healthy growing plants in them!


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## richard powell (23 Nov 2013)

This video is great you dont relli see this side of there aquariums much. Great insight to how they clean there tanks


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## Tim Harrison (24 Nov 2013)

Ian Holdich said:


> I'd go as far to say that, that is incorrect (sorry Troi, no offence made by that)If you want a good read about low tech tanks, have a read of Diana walstads ecology of the planted aquarium. It's a heavy read at points, but a very good read.
> As Tom states, it's difficult to actually prove, but there's a myriad of people who have kept low tec and high tec tanks that don't stir substrates and don't have any problems.
> I mean why would you want to disturb substrates? I would be more worried about the ammonia spike after swirling your substrate around, due to all the crap floating around in you water. This will give you far worse problems.


 
It's been a while but this has just come to my attention so here goes...
...No worries Ian, no offence taken , and you're absolutely right to a point. And I'm one of the myriad...I've often gone way beyond 4cm soil depth with no problems whatsoever. However, it's just as well to try and educate as to the potential hazards.
It's an ambiguity that's very difficult to avoid when trying to write responsibly and even more so to qualify without boring the reader to death - although I did try...'aquatic sediments are anaerobic by nature...' especially when the assumption is of no prior knowledge, and even more so when trying to keep it all stupidly simple. I set my stall out to try and simplify Walstad for the very reason it is a bit heavy going at times and not terribly accessible to all.
But nonetheless, it is still true - and those familiar with Walstad's work will know - it is much easier for plants to uptake nutrients in less anaerobic conditions for various reasons. Not least is that an oxidized rhizosphere is more readily colonised by symbiotic mycorrhizae which assist nutrient absorption. Conversely, high levels of H2S can inhibit root development and therefore plant growth, even though roots are fairly good at oxygenating the surrounding sediment. But as mentioned earlier H2S is unlikely to harm critters since it is oxidised to harmless sulfates in the presence of O2.
Hope that clarifies


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## Iain Sutherland (24 Nov 2013)

viktorlantos said:


> Japan Tour 2013 by viktorlantos, on Flickr


 

just noticed since this thread popped back up... that its an interesting layout for the outlets... i mean, i dont pretend to understand how amano makes these giant tanks look quite so amazing but 'commoners' sense tells that one pointing at the other is a little odd.  Would the one facing the front glass be servicing the left island??  He probably only uses a beetle 30mm anyway so maybe should stop trying equate it


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## Tim Harrison (24 Nov 2013)

Yes...and I also think it looks like they are both reinforcing flow - off the glass - in the same direction across the front, cycling the tank in a good old fashioned circular motion.


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## Edvet (25 Nov 2013)

Forgive my noobness:



Iain Sutherland said:


> He probably only uses a beetle 30mm anyway so maybe should stop trying equate it


 
Huhh? whadoyoumean?


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## Ady34 (25 Nov 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> maybe should stop trying equate it


im gonna stop, it just doesnt make sense. I appreciate the fundamentals, but tanks such as these and many others seem to simply defy all logic in that sense, i suppose thats where experience and 'magic' come into play!....or perhaps its sheer volume acts in many ways like the shallow low techs of Alastair and BigTom, only supercharged with c02 injection and meticulous maintenance?
Id love to see it in the flesh to appreciate the levels of flow within the tank. Ill do what i can at home, and just marvel at aquascapes like these


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## Daniel (10 Dec 2013)

Simply amazing! I stumbled across this video a few weeks ago and is the original reason I want to into planted tanks.... Maybe not quite on this scale though!


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