# Low tech, zero skill



## mrhoyo (4 Jun 2020)

Tank: Dennerle Scaper's Tank 70l
Light: Lumini Asta 20
Filter: Seachem Tidal 55
CO2: Nope

All the below should arrive in the next couple of days:

Substrate: JBL Volcano Mineral and Tropica Aquarium Soil

Flora:
Taxiphyllum Flame Moss
Helanthium tenellum
Microsorum pteropus Narrow Leaf
Anubias nana
Taxiphyllum barbieri
Staurogyne repens
Salvinia auriculata
Cryptocoryne crispatula
Micranthemum MonteCarlo

Hardscape:
Dragon stone
Spiderwood

I'm not overly confident how it will turn out but it will be my first attempt at a planted tank so who knows.

Frosted film should arrive soon too so I can blur out the cables.

I quite like the offset filter, can anyone see a problem with it?


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## Filip Krupa (5 Jun 2020)

I like the setup, dont see any problems with your filter being offset like that.

I like your light the most, it will bounce off the surface waves and give the room some amazing ambience. Good luck!


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## kishan313 (5 Jun 2020)

I’m looking to get a lot of those plants myself. 

Did you order online?

Great set up btw 


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## jaypeecee (5 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> I quite like the offset filter, can anyone see a problem with it?



Hi @mrhoyo 

Perhaps the filter, being quite conspicuous, will detract from the overall aesthetics of your finished masterpiece? Just my two penn'orth. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - so please feel free to consign my opinion to the nearest bin!

JPC


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## mrhoyo (5 Jun 2020)

kishan313 said:


> I’m looking to get a lot of those plants myself.
> 
> Did you order online?
> 
> ...


I did. I bought the tank and filter from Pro Shrimp so decided to give them the plant order too. It's probably the closest shop to me that sells that kind of stuff too so I'll have to make a visit one day.

All arrived earlier except the Tropica soil because some imbecile forgot to order it so had to rush an order in on Amazon to come tomorrow.


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## mrhoyo (5 Jun 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> Perhaps the filter, being quite conspicuous, will detract from the overall aesthetics of your finished masterpiece? Just my two penn'orth. As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - so please feel free to consign my opinion to the nearest bin!
> 
> JPC


You're probably right. I went HOB because that's what my Edge had (see Introduction forum for full story) so I felt most comfortable with that style. I nearly ordered a sponge and then HMF too but they ended up costing similar and I thought this big HOB would give me space for some crushed coral or something if my parameters are odd.

I need to learn about canister filters if I get another tank.


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## jaypeecee (5 Jun 2020)

Hi @mrhoyo 

I understand. The HOB will give you room for additional filtration media. But, Dennerle have a hybrid filter called something like 'Scaper's Flow' and they also do a very compact corner filter, which would be very discreet. I'm just chucking in a few ideas.

JPC


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> I understand. The HOB will give you room for additional filtration media. But, Dennerle have a hybrid filter called something like 'Scaper's Flow' and they also do a very compact corner filter, which would be very discreet. I'm just chucking in a few ideas.
> 
> JPC


If I remember correctly the Scaper's Flow filter got pretty poor reviews on here and the corner ones were too small

There's meant to be a full 70l Dennerle kit out at some point which I could've waited for I suppose.


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

First job of the day done it was both easier and harder than I imagined. I did spend about 15 minutes trying to get a new blade in my Stanley though which probably soured things a bit (why do they have to over-engineer everything now?).


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

Rock rinsing time. Do I need to hastily clean the bath before the wife brutally murders me? Yes.


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## kishan313 (6 Jun 2020)

Lol!! 


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## Aqua360 (6 Jun 2020)

Depending on what style you go for, you could possibly build it up to the back right, so that plants will block the view of the filter


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

Aqua360 said:


> Depending on what style you go for, you could possibly build it up to the back right, so that plants will block the view of the filter


Possibly. I'm thinking of actually doing the back left, I don't really mind the exposed filter at the moment. It would probably annoy me more if it was partially covered, might as well make it a feature.

I like the sort of angled island look as attached. I don't know how my version will turn out but when my damn soil arrives I can finally get cracking.


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

This while picking up bits of stone business is harder than it looks! This is where I am so far, any decent suggestions?
The stone is pretty pants, there are only a couple of bits with any character and they're mostly the same size.


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

Right, this is it then. Let's see how it goes.
A few things I underestimated:
How hard it is to pile rocks up
How many plants you get in those tiny Tropica pots
How much of a pain filling water with buckets is
How buoyant little plants are if not far enough in the substrate 
The strength of the skimmer on my filter (thankfully adjusted before the floating plants got totally mashed)


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## si walker (6 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> Possibly. I'm thinking of actually doing the back left, I don't really mind the exposed filter at the moment. It would probably annoy me more if it was partially covered, might as well make it a feature.
> 
> I like the sort of angled island look as attached. I don't know how my version will turn out but when my damn soil arrives I can finally get cracking.
> View attachment 149960
> View attachment 149961


Im with that way of thinking too! 
I like to see the workings of tanks. Not so popular nowadays what with everything being glass in the tank etc. The filter is pretty cool.


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

si walker said:


> Im with that way of thinking too!
> I like to see the workings of tanks. Not so popular nowadays what with everything being glass in the tank etc. The filter is pretty cool.


It's pretty noisy to be honest, Seachem are apparently sending a replacement part out so we'll see what that does.

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## Aqua360 (6 Jun 2020)

That's a solid start, plenty of water changes at the start will dramatically increase your chances of success


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## mrhoyo (6 Jun 2020)

Aqua360 said:


> That's a solid start, plenty of water changes at the start will dramatically increase your chances of success


Thanks.
I think think I'm going to do 50% a day but might follow the Tropica app. Not sure yet.
Any advice on speeding up the process? Buckets seem to take ages!

Also, need someone to talk to me about fertiliser. I imagine I'll need it soon.


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## mrhoyo (8 Jun 2020)

Day 2 update 
Nothing exciting, just a 50% water change that took 25 minutes. Ordered a pump and hose, hopefully things speed up.
Also ordered some TNC Complete, looks easy enough to use.


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## Aqua360 (8 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> Day 2 update
> Nothing exciting, just a 50% water change that took 25 minutes. Ordered a pump and hose, hopefully things speed up.
> Also ordered some TNC Complete, looks easy enough to use.



You can get a python water changer, but it might be overkill on this tank size, maybe not. 

I like TNC, there are others out there and everyone has their favourite; but it'll yield good results used sensibly


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## mrhoyo (8 Jun 2020)

Aqua360 said:


> You can get a python water changer, but it might be overkill on this tank size, maybe not.
> 
> I like TNC, there are others out there and everyone has their favourite; but it'll yield good results used sensibly


I looked at a Python but, because of where this tank is, it would need connecting to the shower and I couldn't find what adapter I'd need. The fact it's about £55+adapter+hook put me off a bit too.

I went with TNC purely because I'd heard it mentioned on YouTube or something and it seemed simple. I know EI works out cheaper in the long run but I think the TNC will only be something like £15 a year on their basic dose.


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## Fiske (8 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> I looked at a Python but, because of where this tank is, it would need connecting to the shower and I couldn't find what adapter I'd need. The fact it's about £55+adapter+hook put me off a bit too.
> 
> I went with TNC purely because I'd heard it mentioned on YouTube or something and it seemed simple. I know EI works out cheaper in the long run but I think the TNC will only be something like £15 a year on their basic dose.


JBL makes a Python-like thing; if you buy the 'big' package it comes with a multi adapter. Big package includes 8 m hose I believe. 
I have one it works fine.


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## mrhoyo (8 Jun 2020)

Day 3 water change
Didn't take quite as long.
Is this too much flow? Filter is on about half power. Flow
I'm assuming the slight urine smell is ammonia from the substrate?

I've read that crypts normally die back, will it be obvious?


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## hypnogogia (8 Jun 2020)

Hello, how many litres is your tank, and how many litres per hour is your filter rated at?

Yes, you’ll notice the crypt leaves dying back.  Leaves turn yellow and die.

Regarding the urine smell, I’ve never experienced this, but it would point to ammonia, and if you can smell it, I’d suggest your ammonia is pretty high.


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## mrhoyo (8 Jun 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Hello, how many litres is your tank, and how many litres per hour is your filter rated at?
> 
> Yes, you’ll notice the crypt leaves dying back.  Leaves turn yellow and die.
> 
> Regarding the urine smell, I’ve never experienced this, but it would point to ammonia, and if you can smell it, I’d suggest your ammonia is pretty high.


70l, filter is rated up to 1000l/h but adjustable down to 20% i.e. 200l/h.

The odour was just when I was right over the tank but did smell like a particularly small tom cat had been around. It isn't noticeable now I've changed the water.


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## hypnogogia (8 Jun 2020)

I’d put the filter to about 70%.  That way you’ll have about 10x flow, which won’t be too much.


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## mrhoyo (8 Jun 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> I’d put the filter to about 70%.  That way you’ll have about 10x flow, which won’t be too much.


That's about where it is now so should be fine then.


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## jaypeecee (8 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> The odour was just when I was right over the tank but did smell like a particularly small tom cat had been around.



Hi @mrhoyo

Sounds like Tropica Aquarium Soil contains urea?

JPC


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## mrhoyo (9 Jun 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> Sounds like Tropica Aquarium Soil contains urea?
> 
> JPC


Certainly smells like it.

Day 4 update:
Pump and hose arrived so I now have powered water changes. Is it quicker? Maybe a bit. Is it safer than lugging buckets? Hopefully. 

Had a bit of a problem today, I thought I'd give the inside glass a wipe and ended up knocking over the wood. Which then released / uprooted about 5 plants. I have no idea how I got it like in the previous pictures, I swear the wood has changed shape. It will have to stay as is for now.

Also had a decent delivery of other fishy bits:
Heater
Intake sponges (so I don't end up making shrimp soup)
TNC Complete
Seachem Prime.

I don't know if I need the Prime until I get fish but if chucked it in anyway.
When should I fertilise? Tropica app says something like week 4 but it also only says to change water days 3, 7, 10.


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## Ray (10 Jun 2020)

If you follow the Tropica app water change schedule then the urea and other goodies will last until week 4. If you do more water changes then you can bring forward the dosing.

The Prime will also protect your filter bacteria from chlorine in your tap water.


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## mrhoyo (10 Jun 2020)

Ray said:


> If you follow the Tropica app water change schedule then the urea and other goodies will last until week 4. If you do more water changes then you can bring forward the dosing.
> 
> The Prime will also protect your filter bacteria from chlorine in your tap water.


If I start dosing can it cause problems vs the Tropica app? They're having fewer water changes but also say to add shrimp and snails on day 3 to eat algae. The plan I'm working to has shrimp at week 3 or 4.


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## si walker (10 Jun 2020)

Hi. 
The information given out on the Tropica app is interesting as its in an app, but I can't help think that it hasn't been updated in a while (years)?
Pretty sure that George Farmer advises water changes every day for the first week in more than one of his vids, scaling down the changes as the weeks go by. 
He also advises Fertiliser from day one.
Its quite confusing.

We should get some solid advice from these guys and write it up in calendar form?

Yeah Tropica advises shrimp/snails early on!

Hmmmm?

Simon.


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## Ray (10 Jun 2020)

si walker said:


> Hi.
> The information given out on the Tropica app is interesting as its in an app, but I can't help think that it hasn't been updated in a while (years)?
> Pretty sure that George Farmer advises water changes every day for the first week in more than one of his vids, scaling down the changes as the weeks go by.
> He also advises Fertiliser from day one.
> ...



Absolutely, the Tropica app seems to be off - when using that substrate the urea OP smelt would likely kill livestock on day 3. 

You can safely dose from the start - I did in my Betta tank with the same Tropica substrate and had no issues. It means you know any problems are not nutrient based which is one less thing to worry about.

If you start to see significant algae on your plants the most likely cause will be too much light for available CO2 while the plants transition from from emerged to immersed growth and adjust to conditions in your tank. Solutions to that would be to keep your light to just 6 hours/day, consider adding a liquid carbon supplement and/or improve flow and maybe dim the light a little to say 75 or 80%. You don’t need to do that right away - you could wait a bit and see how it goes. I’ve no experience of your tank size and light so I can’t say for sure.

With a low tech tank you are basically trying to find a balance between the lights and the available CO2. Once you get that right the plants will slowly but surely grow. If you are lucky that will just work, if not we’ll need to tweak to get there.


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## si walker (10 Jun 2020)

Nicely explained!

Any advice on water change frequency for the first month say?
I know George says 
week 1= 50% daily
then?


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## Ray (10 Jun 2020)

In my low tech Betta tank I was doing every 2 to 3 days initially, then twice weekly. At one point I had horrid surface scum and was sucking that off daily. 2 months in I’m now down to weekly.

Re. Surface scum, if you get it and you have crypts in there then snip all the leaves they had before you put them in the tank (leave the new ones they are putting out) as crypt leaf melt seems to contribute to surface scum.

Since this is no CO2 being added make sure there is good surface agitation for well oxygenated water and to break up surface scum. I think this tank has a HOB so that’s perfect.


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## dw1305 (10 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 





jaypeecee said:


> Sounds like Tropica Aquarium Soil contains urea?


It may well do, it would be cheaper than the other ammonia containing options (ammonium sulphate ((NH4)2SO4) etc) and safer to handle. 

It would only be when the soil was wet that microbial action converted urea (CO(NH2)2) to ammonia/ammonium.  

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (10 Jun 2020)

si walker said:


> Nicely explained!
> 
> Any advice on water change frequency for the first month say?
> I know George says
> ...


On another thread I was told:
Week 1 daily 50%
Week 2 every other day
Week 3 every 3 days
Shrimp in week 3
Snails week 4
Presumably change to weekly changes week 4-6


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## mrhoyo (10 Jun 2020)

Day 5:
Water change with the new contraption. It's not quicker but its safer and means I can do other jobs at the same time.
Added some TNC, just 1ml and I'll do it daily for a week. It made more sense than dumping 7ml in and taking it all out tomorrow. 

Looked to have a bit of grime on the top tonight, the photos are just after turning the filter back on.
Tried to get pictures of some the crypts so someone more knowledgeable can tell me of they need trimming yet.


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## hypnogogia (10 Jun 2020)

Looking nice.  Personally I wouldn’t trim those crypts yet.  Let them grow, and they may even throw out some off spring.


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## mrhoyo (11 Jun 2020)

Exciting day 6 update:
Bugger all except a water change.
How do my plants look? Any need cutting?
There are a couple of dark bits.
Day 6


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## Ray (11 Jun 2020)

Looking good 

Is that a java fern leaf with baby ferns on it? If so you can attach them elsewhere when they are big enough to survive on their own.

Also you can top and tail the bigger S. Repens if you like: 

Crypts look good.


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## mrhoyo (12 Jun 2020)

I didn't notice before but I think the SR has actually grown a bit so I shall trim some as suggested. 
Not 100% if there are fern babies, I'll have a look.

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## mrhoyo (12 Jun 2020)

Day 7
Water change (again!)

I've learnt some things today:

Cyanoacrylate glue is really good at sticking things in water

Cyanoacrylate glue cures white underwater

I have no idea how to stop the floaters getting in the skimmer intake, even when adjusted to the lowest setting

When I knocked over the wood the other day I'd also toppled the rocks which is why it didn't look right 

Gravity is a thing so if I have a hose in the bath emptying water and put the other end on the floor whilst I'm occupied I get a wet patch

I also snipped and replanted some of the SR and planted a new hair grass that was missed off my delivery last week.
I'm about as dexterous with tweezers as I am with a hammer so my nicely angled substrate looks more like the surface of the moon now. I will molest it when the plants are less likely to uproot and float away.


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## mrhoyo (13 Jun 2020)

1 week update:
Not much.
Water change and stuck some more moss on (Taxiphyllum barbieri that arrived out of the blue yesterday).
Tested loads of stuff, basically I have a bit of ammonia and nothing else yet. KH is 1, GH is 3, PH 6.8-7.

Need stocking ideas for when it's cycled, I have really soft water by the sound of things so I believe that limits me.


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## mrhoyo (14 Jun 2020)

8 days
Just changed water and replanted a Monte Carlo clump that decided it wanted to join the floaters (who keep blowing down to the bottom and back up again).
Plants are all bubbly which I'm assuming is a good thing. Looks nice anyway.


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## mrhoyo (15 Jun 2020)

Week 2 now.
Water change.
Nearly cooked everything, I didn't put the hot tap on enough so the plants had a nice 38c bath for a few minutes.

Not a great deal else to report other than I dosed 2ml ferts instead of 1ml because tomorrow will be my first non-change day (woohoo).
Ordered some mineral additives due to my ridiculous soft water and very nearly bought another crypt but decided not to. Yet.


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## mrhoyo (16 Jun 2020)

No water change today but added some Tetra SafeStart at the recomendation of jaypeecee.
The anubias has a yellow leaf, is it just getting used to the water? I suppose it should be taken off?

Little brown splodges on the java ferns too, I assume that's similar.


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## jaypeecee (16 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> No water change today but added some Tetra SafeStart at the recomendation of jaypeecee.



Hi @mrhoyo 

I guess I must have made the recommendation on a different thread. 

Don't worry - the recommendation still stands! 

JPC


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## mrhoyo (17 Jun 2020)

Exciting update - I changed the water again and nipped off those two yellow leaves.
That's about it really.

The s.repens seems to be growing like mad, it will be getting another shave soon.


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## mrhoyo (20 Jun 2020)

Water change 50%
Trimmed the S.repens and replanted
Removed any floating stuff that was trapped and let it float again (can't remember which plant it is)
Nipped off another 2 yellow anubias leaves 
Cut off the mini java ferns and shoved them in places they might hold
Spotted some teeny tiny algae on the glass and one plant - rubbed it off. Hopefully it stays off.


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## mrhoyo (21 Jun 2020)

Uh oh - algae alert


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## jaypeecee (21 Jun 2020)

Hi @mrhoyo


mrhoyo said:


> Uh oh - algae alert



Without knowing any of your water parameters, I'm stuck. But, I seem to recall that you're not injecting CO2 - so, are you adding liquid carbon in any form? And, what is your present lighting
régime?

JPC


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## mrhoyo (21 Jun 2020)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> 
> Without knowing any of your water parameters, I'm stuck. But, I seem to recall that you're not injecting CO2 - so, are you adding liquid carbon in any form? And, what is your present lighting
> ...


I'm not, just dosing the TNC Complete as instructed for a low tech.
Light is only on 6 hours a day, I'm thinking of leaving it off a couple of days.
Not convinced the anubias is doing great either, one taken 4 or 5 leaves off in the last couple of days.


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## dw1305 (21 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> Light is only on 6 hours a day, I'm thinking of leaving it off a couple of days.


I don't think that will help.  Six hours is already a short photo-period and if the light intensity doesn't reach light compensation point plant health will decline further while the light is off.





mrhoyo said:


> the s.repens seems to be growing like mad, it will be getting another shave soon.


I'd stop removing any of the green plant mass, you need the plants to put some growth on and then as the plant mass increases you will start to get some stability.  We don't know exactly why a larger plant mass helps, but we are pretty sure it  does.





mrhoyo said:


> anubias is doing great either,  one taken 4 or 5 leaves off in the last couple of days.


Have you removed the leaves? or have they gone yellow and actually fallen off?  I'd let them fall off, before I removed them. 

The problem is that a plant like _Anubias_ is only going to produce new leaves really slowly, if you remove leaves because they have gone pale or have a small amount of algae on them etc, pretty soon  you've pruned the plant out of existence.

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (21 Jun 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I don't think that will help.  Six hours is already a short photo-period and if the light intensity doesn't reach light compensation point plant health will decline further while the light is off.I'd stop removing any of the green plant mass, you need the plants to put some growth on and then as the plant mass increases you will start to get some stability.  We don't know exactly why a larger plant mass helps, but we are pretty sure it  does.Have you removed the leaves? or have they gone yellow and actually fallen off?  I'd let them fall off, before I removed them.
> 
> The problem is that a plant like _Anubias_ is only going to produce new leaves really slowly, if you remove leaves because they have gone pale or have a small amount of algae on them etc, pretty soon  you've pruned the plant out of existence.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Anubias leaves have been removed but without much persuasion. They kind of mushy.

Should I go the other way and add some liquid carbon and up the lighting maybe?
It's not awful yet so maybe it will be ok to wait a while and see if a snail or something will sort it once the tank cycles.


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## dw1305 (21 Jun 2020)

Hi all,





mrhoyo said:


> Anubias leaves have been removed but without much persuasion. They kind of mushy.


Take the off, they are pretty firmly attached when healthy.





mrhoyo said:


> Should I go the other way and add some liquid carbon and up the lighting maybe? It's not awful yet so maybe it will be ok to wait a while and see if a snail or something will sort it once the tank cycles.


Personally I'm a great believer in  "good things come to those who wait", I'd just remove dead leaves etc, change some water, add fertilisers and just see what happens. 

I'm also a snail fan.

cheers Darrel


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## Ray (21 Jun 2020)

The brown algae on your S. Repens (first photo) looks like brown diatoms to me, if so I'd just brush them off with your fingers or something where you can.  That's quite normal and all part of your tank stabilising.  As Daryl mentions, some kinds of snails will snack on that.
The hair algae on the tip of your wood  (second photo) should be removed with a clean toothbrush or similar.
As noted, do NOT increase the light nor turn it off - basically "stay on target Luke".
Liquid carbon will give your plants a boost and has some anti algae properties - it won't be a game changer but might help and you can always stop adding it later (taking a tank off CO2 is rather harder).  I'd add it myself but not everyone is a fan.


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## mrhoyo (22 Jun 2020)

Right, I'll take off what I can and I've got a little bottle of liquid carbon on the way. It might not help but I don't think it can hurt unless I go mad with it.
Starting to feel a bit like I'm on Breaking Bad with all these different things I'm adding.


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## Ray (22 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> Starting to feel a bit like I'm on Breaking Bad with all these different things I'm adding.



Just wait until you find out the character arc we’ve got planned for you!


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## mrhoyo (22 Jun 2020)

If I clean what I can and add a touch of liquid carbon should it go away or is it a case of hanging in there until I can stick some shrimp and snails in and they'll sort it?
Don't really want to faff with CO2 yet, I don't think I'll win the mrs around to me modifying a fire extinguisher and I've got relatively slow growing plants anyway.


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## Ray (22 Jun 2020)

😄


mrhoyo said:


> If I clean what I can and add a touch of liquid carbon should it go away or is it a case of hanging in there until I can stick some shrimp and snails in and they'll sort it?


It should clear - brown diatoms occur early on but stop once the tank matures and balances.  The algae on the wood is most likely feeding off sugars released from the wood, same as the mould some folks get.  So keep dosing and cleaning and steady as she goes.


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## mrhoyo (22 Jun 2020)

Hmmm


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## dw1305 (22 Jun 2020)

Hi all, 
How pale does the _Salvinia_ look in "real life"? And are the new leaves noticeably paler than the old leaves?

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (22 Jun 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> How pale does the _Salvinia_ look in "real life"? And are the new leaves noticeably paler than the old leaves?
> 
> cheers Darrel


Salvinia is either really green or a bit brown. Any brown are getting  removed.


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## mrhoyo (23 Jun 2020)

Another anubias leaf came off last night just from the flow during a water change. It's not looking good.
First crypt leaf came off too.
There was quite a lot of (I think this it the technical term) cack floating off the substrate when filling which makes me wonder if the algae is partly due to the salvinia which gets blown down and caught on the plants. My thinking is some is decaying down there rather than floating up.
If I'm right then the idea of floaters reducing algae is out the window for me.


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## hypnogogia (23 Jun 2020)

How are the floaters being blown down and getting caught in the plants?


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## Hufsa (23 Jun 2020)

Floaters are, in my experience, not happy being submerged again and again, and both salvinia and frogbit dies from this in my tank  I would try to cordon them off from the flow, or cordon the flow from them if thats easier


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## mrhoyo (23 Jun 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> How are the floaters being blown down and getting caught in the plants?


Filter flow


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## mrhoyo (23 Jun 2020)

Hufsa said:


> Floaters are, in my experience, not happy being submerged again and again, and both salvinia and frogbit dies from this in my tank  I would try to cordon them off from the flow, or cordon the flow from them if thats easier


How do I go about wrangling floaters?


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## hypnogogia (23 Jun 2020)

I agree with @Hufsa.  Try to set up your flow to not sink your floaters.  I have amazon frog it and both my flow pumps and my spray bae near the surface.  The frog it just gets pushed away to front of tank, but doesn’t sink at all.


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## mrhoyo (23 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> How do I go about wrangling floaters?


Airline that's how. Ordered some for delivery tomorrow.


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## mrhoyo (30 Jun 2020)

mrhoyo said:


> Airline that's how. Ordered some for delivery tomorrow.


Turns out airline looks incredibly DIY so I ordered a corner holder online. Looks a bit better.

My anubias doesn't seem very well, there must've been 10 leaves come off today. About half were yellowing and the rest had gone to clear / brown mush.


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## mrhoyo (1 Jul 2020)

Update
I think the anubias is knackered. 10-15 leaves have come off in the last couple of days and, what I'm assuming is the rhizome, is soft and pasty.
Just did a pretty big water change of 50%+.

I'm also getting sick of cleaning algae, so far my original plans to avoid it have failed:
1 relatively low output LED - I'm not sure that's even suiting my plants

Salvinia - it seeks to do what it wants and WAS getting caught underwater which I think caused algae

Anubias on wood - my thinking was having a fairly big plant would help and that it being pre-attached would save me making a mess. I used the wood as an anchor for a lot of moss and ferns.
It looks like the anubias is on death row now so presumably I need to take it out and clean the wood.

No CO2 - the thinking was it would be easier but now I'm dosing liquid carbon to try fighting the algae and TNC to boost the plants

Fishless cycle - I can't add livestock until the plants have grown in but they seem to be slowing, presumably because of the algae. I could really do with some CUC right now!


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## dw1305 (1 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> I think the anubias is knackered.


<"It is">. 





mrhoyo said:


> 1 relatively low output LED - I'm not sure that's even suiting my plants


I don't know how bright this is, but I'd approach this from a different angle. If your plants don't reach <"light compensation point"> they aren't going to grow, but will decline. I use whatever light I have to hand, if it is <"bright light"> I just have more floating plants, they <"aren't CO2 limited"> and are adapted to <"growing in bright conditions">.

Once you have taken light and CO2 out of the equation it only leaves the mineral nutrients. If you get <"good growth of your plants (including algae)">,  you know you don't have any fundamental problems with nutrient availability.

cheers Darrel


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## mrhoyo (1 Jul 2020)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, <"It is">. I don't know how bright this is, but I'd approach this from a different angle. If your plants don't reach <"light compensation point"> they aren't going to grow, but will decline. I use whatever light I have to hand, if it is <"bright light"> I just have more floating plants, they <"aren't CO2 limited"> and are adapted to <"growing in bright conditions">.
> 
> Once you have taken light and CO2 out of the equation it only leaves the mineral nutrients. If you get <"good growth of your plants (including algae)">,  you know you don't have any fundamental problems with nutrient availability.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Right, what I'm taking from this is:
Anubias has to come out and be replaced 
If I'm managing to grow algae that's a good thing


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## dw1305 (1 Jul 2020)

Hi all, 





mrhoyo said:


> Right, what I'm taking from this is: Anubias has to come out and be replaced. If I'm managing to grow algae that's a good thing


Yes, pretty much that. 

cheers Darrel


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## Ray (1 Jul 2020)

If I look back and compare your first photo with the latest one, it seems you’ve had some decent growth from all except the Anubias in the first month?


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## mrhoyo (1 Jul 2020)

Ray said:


> If I look back and compare your first photo with the latest one, it seems you’ve had some decent growth from all except the Anubias in the first month?


I think you're right actually. I've just compared to day 7 and the crypt in the corner is much bigger. The s.repens grew well to start with but seems to have slowed down since algae appeared.
The grass stuff looks ok but that might be because I ended up getting another delivered a couple of weeks ago.
The monte carlo looks a bit pale and seems to be most susceptible to algae.
Maybe I'm getting there.

I can't wait for the carpet to grow in, I'm starting to wish I'd covered the aqua soil with something. It looks like tiny rabbit droppings!


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## mrhoyo (1 Jul 2020)

Does anyone fancy taking a guess at what my ammonia and nitrate levels are based on the attached? These colour charts aren't fantastic. Pretty certain nitrite is zero.
dKH 1
dGH 4
PH 6.9


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## Ray (1 Jul 2020)

I think it’s Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20. So spot on! Looks like your tank is cycled and could think about adding something living and see how it goes!


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## mrhoyo (1 Jul 2020)

Ray said:


> I think it’s Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20. So spot on! Looks like your tank is cycled and could think about adding something living and see how it goes!


Woohoo, that's cheered me up a bit.
Off to order some snails- it sounds mean but if anything is going to die off I'd rather it be an invertebrate.


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## mrhoyo (4 Jul 2020)

Looks like I have BGA in addition to the regular type, fantastic.


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## mrhoyo (11 Jul 2020)

We have LIVESTOCK!


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## mrhoyo (5 Jan 2021)

I haven't updated this for a long time bit there have been a few changes (largely due to the wife:
Stock is now:
10x ember tetra
4x CPD
3x honey gourami
5x panda corydoras (one bred in this tank)
1x bristlenose
3x amano
4? x horned nerite
??? Crystal red shrimp

My mrs decided she wanted s small tank downstairs with a bonsai in but, following a floating incident and it ripping up most of her plants, I rescued it from going in the bin and shuffled it in to here.
Looks a bit pants but I couldn't let it go in the bin considering the cost!

I added a CO2 kit last week and have it set very low (1 bubble per 3 seconds) but seems to be helping already. Photo taken at feeding time with filter on low, I dont usually have loads of stuff floating around!




I'm going to see if any of the carpet plants can actually spread nicely in the short term, long term this will be replaced with something bigger.


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## mrhoyo (9 Jan 2021)

Looks like my 2kg FE is nearly empty already. New one coming tomorrow, I'll triple check the bottle pressure this time, I'm not convinced the last one was full. Less than 2 weeks seems very quick to empty, especially at less than 0.5 BPS 8hrs a day.
I'll have to soap and water the connection to the regulator this time to be 100% there are no silent leaks.


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## mrhoyo (16 Jan 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> Looks like my 2kg FE is nearly empty already. New one coming tomorrow, I'll triple check the bottle pressure this time, I'm not convinced the last one was full. Less than 2 weeks seems very quick to empty, especially at less than 0.5 BPS 8hrs a day.
> I'll have to soap and water the connection to the regulator this time to be 100% there are no silent leaks.


No sign of leaks and pressure looks good. See how long this one lasts!
Bonus- the new extinguisher came with a wall bracket


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## Kezzab (16 Jan 2021)

At 0.5bps id expect it to last at least 6 months, 8f not longer. For comparison a 2kg lasts me 2 months on a 200l tank with an uncountable bubble rate.


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## mrhoyo (16 Jan 2021)

Kezzab said:


> At 0.5bps id expect it to last at least 6 months, 8f not longer. For comparison a 2kg lasts me 2 months on a 200l tank with an uncountable bubble





Kezzab said:


> At 0.5bps id expect it to last at least 6 months, 8f not longer. For comparison a 2kg lasts me 2 months on a 200l tank with an uncountable bubble rate.


That's what I thought, I can't figure out what went wrong other than a potentially low FE to start with. I've followed all the CO2Art leak check steps and the connection on this new one is fine so fingers crossed.


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## mrhoyo (6 Feb 2021)

I haven't updated for a while but this is the tank today, post water change and with a lot of CO2 mist. Now up to 1BPS.
I'm finding CO2 a pain at the minute, currently waiting for a replacement needle from CO2Art. I set the BPS but overnight it drops so I'm in the old inconsistent CO2 trap despite investing in a top-end setup.

I think the 'carpet' is coming along but I'm considering replacing the Java fern in the tree with something smaller like Monte Carlo or maybe even anubias / bucephalandra.


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## mrhoyo (10 Mar 2021)

Bit of an update:
CO2 now stable thanks to a new needle valve. Currently running 1bps.

Light replaced with a Chihiros RGB A451.

Plants seem to be doing well, just a bit of BBA and hair algae but nothing serious.



Male gourami isn't in a good way, looks pale, has a bloated abdomen and not swimming well. Fully expect to have an ex-fish in the next day or so.


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## mrhoyo (12 Mar 2021)

Well that's the male gourami done 😔.
I was planning my next tank around a group of honey gourami but 2 deaths in something like 6 months has put me off them.


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## mrhoyo (21 Mar 2021)

Bit of an update:

Another gourami keeled, down to 1 now. So far looking healthy but we'll see what happens.

I've stripped all the moss and most of the lava fern from the tree. The only bits left were really well attached so left them to it.
My final attempt at polishing this turd of a wood is to see if red stems will grow bushy and make it somewhat tree like.
The Yorkshire in me is determined to put this £40+ monstrosity to use seeing as I've paid out for it but I'm 90% it will be binned in a couple of months.

Also put some anubias petite from the charity auction on a couple of rocks, that looks ok.

CO2 has made a massive difference to the carpet and new Chihiros light brings the reds out on everything.


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## John q (21 Mar 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> The Yorkshire in me is determined to put this £40+ monstrosity to use seeing as I've paid out for it


Obviously not a true Yorkshire man if you've paid £40 for a piece of wood.  😁

Tanks coming on nicely btw.


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## mrhoyo (12 Apr 2021)

Not going well, I've lost maybe 3 CPD this week. All other fish are fine.
I added 10x new ones after 2 week quarantine but it's the existing ones that seem to be dying. Nothing obvious I can see on them so my current theory is that they're getting beef from either the remaining gourami or one of the new CPD.


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## mrhoyo (12 Apr 2021)

Poor photo update


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## mrhoyo (27 Dec 2021)

It turns out the last photo was the best it ever looked. We started having an extension built in April and all tank maintenance was put off as 'it'll need moving soon'. I'll finally be in a position to move it in to the new room later this week, just the small inconveniences of 3 flights of stairs and me never having moved a planted fish tank before.

Any tips?
I was thinking of taking out all wood and rocks; trimming down the crypts etc. and then catching as many fish as I can and sticking them in a tub with a filter before draining right down and attempting to move with substrate still in place. Not sure if it'll work.


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## pat1cp (27 Dec 2021)

I've moved a small tank like this without removing the hardscape. I just drained it down as much as I could, then slid it onto an appropriate sized coffee table, moved it to new location on the table then slide across to new location. Obviously, you'll need some help.


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## jaypeecee (27 Dec 2021)

mrhoyo said:


> Looks like I have BGA in addition to the regular type, fantastic.


Hi @mrhoyo 

It is not unusual for Cyanobacteria (aka BGA) to grow exactly as your photo shows. That's because Cyano need iron and this is more plentiful where there is less oxygen available - such as in the substrate. But, Cyano also needs light and, hey presto, it gets just that where light falls on the tank. Using a pipette, I inject a few drops of Easy-Life _Blue Exit_ into the affected area of the substrate. This is usually effective in killing off the Cyano. Some people simply apply suitable tape to the outside of an aquarium to block the light but it's a bit of an eyesore.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

JPC


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## jaypeecee (27 Dec 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Good luck and please keep us posted.


Hi @mrhoyo 

Looks like I posted a reply to an old thread. Never mind. I hope the information I provided will come in useful one day!

JPC


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## mrhoyo (28 Dec 2021)

jaypeecee said:


> Hi @mrhoyo
> 
> It is not unusual for Cyanobacteria (aka BGA) to grow exactly as your photo shows. That's because Cyano need iron and this is more plentiful where there is less oxygen available - such as in the substrate. But, Cyano also needs light and, hey presto, it gets just that where light falls on the tank. Using a pipette, I inject a few drops of Easy-Life _Blue Exit_ into the affected area of the substrate. This is usually effective in killing off the Cyano. Some people simply apply suitable tape to the outside of an aquarium to block the light but it's a bit of an eyesore.
> 
> ...


I did manage to sort the BGA a while ago, after faffing with liquid carbon in a syringe for a few weeks I just turned the light off instead and it buggered off pretty quickly.
I started using CO2 about a year ago and that solved all my algae issues and the plants went mental. It ran out a couple of months ago and I haven't replaced yet due to the impending tank move. I'm assuming that's why I now have loads of BBA at the minute. We'll see when I get it moved.


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## mrhoyo (1 Jan 2022)

Well, that was a nightmare.
I'd let everything get so overgrown the fish were able to hide from me so plan B was to try moving the tank with just a bit of water in. Unfortunately this didn't work as the fish were in and out of water depending on my movements so on to plan C.
All plants out, then fish, then empty most of the substrate and re-do everything once moved.
I'll check everything later once the lights are on but, as of last night, the only livestock casualty was a blue cherry shrimp that took a leap from somewhere and got underfoot.


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## mrhoyo (3 Jan 2022)

The current state. Basically trimmed all the plants down except epiphytes, bunged everything in and put a bit of leftover sand at the front.
Corydoras seem happy.


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## mrhoyo (25 Aug 2022)

Looks a bit different now but I haven't changed much. Filter moved to the side and some stem plants stuck in. Put them in a few spots to see if they preferred certain conditions. Turns out I'm pretty good at algae. Not sure what's causing it, most of the plants look pretty healthy to me.
I'm also still cack at photos.


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## Hufsa (26 Aug 2022)

Tank looks really lush, good to see you again 
Nice stems, aromatica something? What is that red/pink Ludwigia?


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## mrhoyo (26 Aug 2022)

Hufsa said:


> Tank looks really lush, good to see you again
> Nice stems, aromatica something? What is that red/pink Ludwigia?


Aromatica mini
Ludwigia ovalis
Got them and some Rotala pearl when I bought some Rotala wallichii on here. The Rotalas aren't doing half as well as the others.


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## mrhoyo (13 Sep 2022)

It amazes me how fast stem plants grow


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## mrhoyo (29 Sep 2022)

I think I have an extra ember tetra. I can't decide whether it's a small adult and I thought it had died before or they've bred and I haven't noticed until it got sub adult size 🤔


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## mrhoyo (30 Oct 2022)

Any idea why my stems have decided to go palm tree style?
I'm going with it being nutrients.
Dosing 15ml macro and 15ml micro APF EI a week, tank is 70l.


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## mrhoyo (30 Oct 2022)




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## Hufsa (30 Oct 2022)

mrhoyo said:


> I'm going with it being nutrients.
> Dosing 15ml macro and 15ml micro APF EI a week, tank is 70l.


That would be my guess as well, mobile nutrient(s). What ppm does your fertilizer additions give per week?
Has the plant mass increased, and did you increase the fertilizer addition to go with it?
If you think the plants can handle it I would give the whole tank a trim, a bit less plants will mean less competition for whatever is lacking too. If the oldest leaves are the biggest problem like it appears then I would be looking at carbon and nitrogen (nitrate) just because the plants need the most of them.
They look fairly pale all over so if it was me I would increase the ferts and give em a trim and see how that works


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## Akejan (31 Oct 2022)

mrhoyo said:


> Any idea why my stems have decided to go palm tree style?
> I'm going with it being nutrients.
> Dosing 15ml macro and 15ml micro APF EI a week, tank is 70l.


Give them some root-tabs.


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## mrhoyo (1 Nov 2022)

Hufsa said:


> That would be my guess as well, mobile nutrient(s). What ppm does your fertilizer additions give per week?
> Has the plant mass increased, and did you increase the fertilizer addition to go with it?
> If you think the plants can handle it I would give the whole tank a trim, a bit less plants will mean less competition for whatever is lacking too. If the oldest leaves are the biggest problem like it appears then I would be looking at carbon and nitrogen (nitrate) just because the plants need the most of them.
> They look fairly pale all over so if it was me I would increase the ferts and give em a trim and see how that works


I haven't done the maths yet but I've pretty much doubled what I was dosing and can already see new growth so hopefully that's fixed it.


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## mrhoyo (1 Nov 2022)

Akejan said:


> Give them some root-tabs.


I really don't like root tabs, I seem to end up with bits sat on the substrate.


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## Courtneybst (2 Nov 2022)

mrhoyo said:


> I really don't like root tabs, I seem to end up with bits sat on the substrate.


I've found Seachem root tabs good for this. I've never had one rise to the surface of the substrate and even if it did, it's black in colour so very inconspicuous.


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