# Barb Island. its all over.



## Iain Sutherland (28 Jan 2012)

First off appologies for lots of photos missing, i hadnt realised that if you move a picture on photobucket into a new album that the url becomes void. Pics start again around page 10/12

Tank as it stands...






Hey folks, maybe slightly premature but i need to share 
After setting up the 55g Bow front i really wasnt happy with it for very long, same old bow front issues i always had. I never felt the co2 distribution or flow were as they should be.
So being a little disheartened i thought the best thing to do was try a marine set up 





With the marine going well i started to consider the future of my planted tanks and quickly realised that as nice as marine is, planted is where my heart is and i miss the flexibility of tropical to rescape at will.
So the best way to pick yourself up after a disheartening scape was to buy the tank i always dreamt of!!
So here she is, bought from magpie i collect next week.





Its a 90x45x75 TGM opti white, 303ltr.

Following inspiration from Toms bucket o mud (my favorite tank at the mo'  ) and a few other tanks i have a scape in mind with emergent plants included, no doubt this plan will evolve as i go along.... but i'm hoping for a high tech, slow(ish) growth scape.

*Substrate*
Going to try akadama out as a substrate with sphagnum moss peat and osmacote in the bottom.

*Lighting*
I have bought a new light unit, 150w HQI with 2 x 24 T5's. As i work shifts i regularly miss the light period on my current set up so am hoping i can stretch it to about 8-10 hrs with just the 2 tiny T5's alone for 2-4 hrs of that and a midday blast with the halide..???

*Co2*
I have decided against the up inline atomiser again, it seemed to do the job but hated the constant misting. This time i am going for 2 beetle style TMC ceramic diffusors.

*Filtration*
Going with lily pipes for the first time and clear tubing to hopefully get some nice flow. They will be attached to an Eheim 2075 and an Eheim 2025. These together should be adequate for the tank, but if its possible i would like to run just the 2175 for a more gentle flow.

*Hardscape*
Seiryu stone with redmoor roots or manzanita.

Well thats about all for now, just the big wait until i collect next week. I plan on a very slow start for the tank, with it sitting empty for several weeks until im entirely happy with the plan and ive bought everything from the off.

Watch this space


----------



## Lewisr (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite wet dream...*

Sounds promising look forward to seeing it progress


----------



## BigTom (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite wet dream...*

Heh, I was thinking that tank would be great for emergent stuff when I saw it advertised. Lighting sounds pretty flexible, should be able to tweak it to suit emergent growth as well. Looking forward to updates.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream, emergent plants?*

Im really looking forward to the emergent growth.. just need to find some plants that will have a fighting chance.  I really like the Philodendron that Amano uses but it seems its a tightly guarded secret as to the variety!!
http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/49374807
Anyone have any ideas..?? or other suggestions would be gratefully received 

The idea behind the HQI was so it would work for emergent, think i might need to supplement it with a reading lamp if i end up with a triffid like yours! 
 Your tank has been a real inspiration Tom, so thanks mate   
 Must be nice to have such a beautiful tank with such low maintenance!!


----------



## Alastair (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Looking forward to this mate it looked good when you showed me the other day but looks huge there


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Looking forward to this mate


 nervously excited buddy!!


----------



## foxfish (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

I am doing something along those lines too, have a look at this plant http://www.tropica.com/plants/plantdesc ... x?pid=073E


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> I am doing something along those lines too, have a look at this plant http://www.tropica.com/plants/plantdesc ... x?pid=073E



thanks foxfish, i hadn't really looked at echinodorus as whenever i've tried them before they always dried out.  This could be a definite possibility.

Would really like a website with a list of emergent and emersed plants... but that would be too easy


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Check out my journal for suitable emersed plants. Or do what I do, find some regular outdoor marginals and see what works indoors. Most, I bet. There's dozens and dozens to choose from, I want to give some Iris a go.

That tank is a fantastic size.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream, emergent plants?*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Im really looking forward to the emergent growth.. just need to find some plants that will have a fighting chance.  I really like the Philodendron that Amano uses but it seems its a tightly guarded secret as to the variety!!
> http://www.pbase.com/plantella/image/49374807
> Anyone have any ideas..?? or other suggestions would be gratefully received



P. Scandens works.

I was going to try various Philodendrons but the best pace to get rare ones is from a german site. Only issue would be whether they adapt to room humidity.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Check out my journal for suitable emersed plants. Or do what I do, find some regular outdoor marginals and see what works indoors. Most, I bet. There's dozens and dozens to choose from, I want to give some Iris a go.
> 
> That tank is a fantastic size.



Thanks morgan ill have a look through,  went to a garden centre today and saw a few plants that looked like a possibility.  I think as soon as my expanded clay pellets arrive ill buy a couple and see if they adapt to emersed life.

The tank holds a lot of possibilities for sure... think a two hill, canyon style would work really well with such depth.  Half the reason for choosing this size was the fact it was so versatile.



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> P. Scandens works.
> 
> I was going to try various Philodendrons but the best pace to get rare ones is from a german site. Only issue would be whether they adapt to room humidity.



Haha, P. Scandens was one of the plants i was looking at this morning, only reason i didnt buy was because it said it was toxic?  not sure if that would effect water or fauna...?


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Peace Lilly is also toxic but is regularly used in plant filtration and emergent set ups. Unless the fish are eating the leaves you're good.

Plants already grown with roots out of water will go through a bit of a sulk for a while, but they'll adapt eventually.

I use this site, Just be careful to check the maximum growing size!   

http://www.lilieswatergardens.co.uk/


----------



## BigTom (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

I've ordered stuff from lilies before, they're good. And yeah, as Morgan said, most plants will take a few weeks to adapt to aquaculture, they tend to have to grow a whole new root structure for it. I use peace lilies in the Bucket and everything seems happy.


----------



## ghostsword (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

For emersed plants I would look at:
- Mangroves
- Draecenas
- Large anubias
- Mondo Grass
- Bacopas
- Cyperus Haspens
- Sygonium's
- Trichomanes
- Fitonias
- Hemigraphis Colorata
- Hygrophilas
- Java Fern
- Ferns
- Cordyline
- Calamus sp.
- Chamaedorea sp.

The list is endless..


----------



## foxfish (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

The main problem is the leafs drying out though, I bet loads of us have had plants putting up 'above water foliage' but the leafs very quickly turn brown.
It looks like most swords stand pretty good chance....


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				Morgan Freeman said:
			
		

> Peace Lilly is also toxic but is regularly used in plant filtration and emergent set ups. Unless the fish are eating the leaves you're good.
> 
> Plants already grown with roots out of water will go through a bit of a sulk for a while, but they'll adapt eventually.
> 
> ...



thanks for the link morgan, that'll keep me busy for a while!



			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> For emersed plants I would look at:
> 
> .....
> 
> The list is endless..



thankyou ghost, who needs a emersed website when we have ukaps and members with the knowledge   



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> The main problem is the leafs drying out though, I bet loads of us have had plants putting up 'above water foliage' but the leafs very quickly turn brown.
> It looks like most swords stand pretty good chance....



Hearing that!! I think i am going to go for a household plant and emerse rather than an aquatic one due to this problem... that and i like big green fleshy leaves!

Got a message from Piotr K who gave me some advise on philodendrons after i asked him about Amano's species and i think ill pop to the garden centre tomorrow and buy a couple and start the emersive process to see what takes best.  He has said that all Philo's will grow emergent though! 

Now need to figure a way to start them off as my tank comes down on thursday..??  
I do have a little 30ltr cube.. If i slide the tank along then the window sill is the same height as the tank rim, plant with clay pellets in shower caddy's, A la Tom, and use the natural day light..??  think this should work   

Little cube is gunna get busy!!! Holding my crypts, 6 cardinals, amano shrimp and RCS in it too.


----------



## BigTom (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Be aware that the old rootstock may well rot away first before the plants grow new ones, which could foul the water if it's in a little nano tank. I'd just stick them in a bucket somewhere with a bit of sun.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Thanks tom! i just had another very helpful message also from Piotr K who explained how simple it is!
For the same reason as you have said to use a cutting and drop them in a vase or similar and they will grow emersed roots from the off!

Have a habit of over thinking things!!

This will please my cardinals


----------



## ghostsword (30 Jan 2012)

*The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

I had growing on the garden (london) echinodorus, hygrophylas, hydrocotyles , tenelus, parva and bacopas. Also had bog plants, such as cyperus haspens and hairgrass.

Due to our warm winter I still have outside some tenelus, hydrocotyles and bacopas. Cyperus haspens have not died yet. 

Do you want some emersed plants? Pm me your address and i will send you some.


___________________________


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Thanks a lot ghost, i may well hold you to that.  I shant say yes right now as i dont really know for sure what im planning yet 
If all goes to plan i will get the tank sunday, week of soaking akadama, week of scaping/planning etc then will look to plant up mid/end feb...

So you may get a PM around then  
Thankyou for the very generous offer!


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> The main problem is the leafs drying out though, I bet loads of us have had plants putting up 'above water foliage' but the leafs very quickly turn brown.
> It looks like most swords stand pretty good chance....



I convert my aquatic plants to emersed form in high humidity, then slowly bring it down until room humidity and a few sprays a day is all they need.

I have various ludwigia, bacopa, harigrass and hygros and none dry out or turn brown.

Fittonia also work really well. Especially attractive if you can get hold of the pink variety.


----------



## foxfish (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

I know it is possible but, we are talking about plants emerging out of the display tank & this normally means being exposed to a very dry environment directly under two T5s!
I have got a metal halide suspended 600mm above my tank so this might help but I still dont fancy spraying the plants every day.
Toms tanks obviously has some good examples viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14521&start=200


----------



## ghostsword (30 Jan 2012)

*The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

Do pm me, if this next wave of cold does not kill the plants nothing will, and they will last till summer!  

I think that halides may dry them too much, so keep that in mind. A two day spray is more than enough.


___________________________


----------



## Morgan Freeman (30 Jan 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> I know it is possible but, we are talking about plants emerging out of the display tank & this normally means being exposed to a very dry environment directly under two T5s!
> I have got a metal halide suspended 600mm above my tank so this might help but I still dont fancy spraying the plants every day.
> Toms tanks obviously has some good examples viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14521&start=200



Ah sorry I get you now.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (1 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite dream...emergent plants?*

The postman has been very busy.... 5 parcels a day and havent even got to the good stuff yet 

I received expanded hydroponic clay  pellet today to go in the shower caddys for emersed plants and immeadiately wondered if it would be a good idea to put a layer of these under the akadama with the peat and osmocote to help improve the airation/ movement under the substrate??
As i understand it, i can expect the akadama to break down some what over time so would the clay pellet help to stop roots becoming strangled??

Any ideas if this would be a good idea or totally pointless?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (1 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite.  Clay pellets under substrate??*

went to the garden centre today to see what was on offer and picked up an aspidistra and sneakily 'borrowed' a 1 leaf cutting from a philodendron (they wanted £24 for it!)

I washed the root ball of the Aspi and put it in a tall vase with clay pellet and added water to half cover the root ball. 
Bare in mind i dont really know what im doing so any advise appreciated 

The leaf structure for what i want is ideal so i plan to raise the water level every few days until the vase is full, then once full will transfer to the tank and continue to lower into the water in the shower caddys until at the substrate then plant.

Im hoping this will work but i guess time will tell!!









Roots in water... will these rot and new ones grow or just adapt??




Excuse the very unimpressive nano, it was the crab tank.. took out the crabs yesterday and filled it as need to store my cardinals and shrimp until the new tank is running.


----------



## Morgan Freeman (1 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite.  Clay pellets under substrate??*

I just bung it in and hope for the best. All mine have adapted as opposed to rotting away.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (4 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite.  Clay pellets under substrate??*

well this sucks!! Was due to collect the tank tomorrow... of all the days to snow!! My karma sucks!!


----------



## ghostsword (4 Feb 2012)

*The 90x45x75 optiwhite. STUPID SNOW!!!*

The roots will not rot.  and don't add hydrocoton to the substrate, it will float away.




___________________________


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite. STUPID SNOW!!!*

Following a small snow delay, I picked the tank up today!!
Im overly excited   
Thankyou to Magpie, tanks in great condition and for the really nice bits of Mopani (i think) wood as a bonus!!





So waiting for the light bracket from naturalaquario.com now i have fixed the Halide unit after the couriers used it as a football!!
Lily pipes, ceramic diffusors, auto top up unit all in transit also. Then its fun time  

Will be putting in the hardscape hopefully this week and will be needing feedback for sure!!


----------



## darren636 (12 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite. Finally collected!*

very interested to see how you get on with the na delivery.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite. Finally collected!*

they dont actually tell you how long it will take which is very annoying.  Did get an email saying it was being processed for dispatch...
Just hope it fits, its a 90cm hanging arm but measuring the tank it is 91cm :?


----------



## Antipofish (12 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite. Finally collected!*

Oh wow I am JEALOUS !  I saw this tank and really wanted to buy it but it just would not fit where I have a space   It will be almost as good watching it develop in someone else's living room though.  What an awesome tank.  Lovely depth to it.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 Feb 2012)

*Re: The 90x45x75 optiwhite. Finally collected!*

Last few days have been like christmas... bits arriving everyday!! Man i love buying cool aquarium bits, especially glassware 

So the lily pipes were one of the things to arrive this week, very annoying though that when i opened the box they sent the wrong ones and got the poppy style.

Waiting to hear back to replace and hoping they wont ask to send these back... so might have poppy outlets for sale soon.  They are from Aquaticmagic in Singapore following recommendation, quality looks good and just £40 a set.

Also got the GE Arc halide bulbs after Alistairs recommendation, wowzers they are bright!!  Wont need any lights on in my lounge anymore!!

Very smart gUSH ORB dropchecker and thermometer from our sponsor APF.  Great service and super fast delivery, with discount to boot!

TMC auto top up unit also arrived, interested to see how well this works.  Really cant be doing with top ups every day so will run this 24/7 with RO water to minimize mineral build up.

Lots of other less interesting bits too... sphagnum moss peat, osmacote, clear tubing, matrix etc...







 

I have set the tank out and done a few hardscapes, my first one was the favorite (quite a classic scape this time round) so have now taken it all back out again to raise the cabinet by 4" and get all the pipework as tidy as possible and add a shelf on Saturday.

All slowly coming together... the wait to plant is killing me!!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Feb 2012)

*90x45x75 optiwhite. NA light arm.. unreasonable?*

So i have been waiting for NaturalAquario to deliver the light arm which should have arrived last monday.  Went to send them an email to see why it hasnt arrived and found this email arrived this morning.

hello
because of the carnival, your order takes more time than normal.
We also decided to make a new arm, since you told us your aquarium was 90.8cm, e we send you one that fits perfectly.
Shipping number PT ************** send by Chronopost.
The shipping costs was 24.90eur as you will see on the package, if you proced with a paymanet of 4.80eur extra by paypal: info@naturalaquario.com, we appreciate.
regards

so im a little miffed, if this is the case why didnt they advise to start with!!
And then to have the cheek to ask for more cash for delivery!?!

Id like your opinions if im being unreasonable?? Should i pay the extra postage??  A budget product doesn't have to have budget service!!

Im going to be really jacked off if its not here by wednesday as 40 pots of plants are arriving!!


Quick update, nothing particularly interesting  but while im here....
Most things have arrived now, just light arm and replacement lily pipes to come after poppy style sent.
I have set up the tank so just waiting for water now.
Went and bought some plants for the emergent growth out the back, repotted them in clay balls and are sitting in a bucket with ferts getting used to emersed life.  Not too sure if they will all make the transition, particularly a fern i thought would look good...?
Have reserved the CUC and first lot of fish with MA ready for next weekend,  really wanted these fish for a long time so looking forward to collecting.  
Stupidly saw a few plants while there that i hadnt seen before that i really liked and started planning another scape before this one is even set up


----------



## hinch (23 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

i think potentially you are being a little unreasnoble if they've gone to the extra length of basically custom making you an arm to fit your tank perfectly as opposed to an "as close as" off the shelf item. not many companies will go to that length for you.

between the overall cost reduction + a custom fabricated arm I think an extra £4 is a small price to pay


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

Thankyou Hinch, sometimes i just need a bit of perspective.  Patience isnt one of my strong points and i have been without a proper planted tank for over a month now, maybe its withdrawal!!  

I appreciate the effort of custom building one but they had already told me that the stock one will fit.  Its not the money, just annoying as should have been here days ago!!

I guess with all the other delays and wrong items sent then maybe they are getting the brunt of it....

Ill pay the difference but if its not here by wednesday im getting a flight to Portugal


----------



## Antipofish (23 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

Hey Iain, I agree with Hinch, £4 in the run of things with what you have spent.  Ain't worth the hassle.


----------



## Radik (23 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

Auto top up is nice and simple shut off switch but I am not sure I would trust it completely. One day micro switch will just get broke without additional fail safe mechanism I would not want this in my living room . I see they are doing 2x float switch as well I would get that one. Or make sure your reservoir + water in aquarium would not exceed total aquarium capacity.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*



			
				Radik said:
			
		

> Auto top up is nice and simple shut off switch but I am not sure I would trust it completely. One day micro switch will just get broke without additional fail safe mechanism I would not want this in my living room . I see they are doing 2x float switch as well I would get that one. Or make sure your reservoir + water in aquarium would not exceed total aquarium capacity.



It did concern me slightly so bought  2 x 10ltr jerricans ill swop when empty and the tank will always hold an extra 10.  Luckily because of the depth of the tank even with 2 large eheims it all fits in the cabinet   

Just finished the cabinet today too.  Raised it up 10cm with inset 4x2 painted ADAish matt grey.  I'm quite chuffed with it   

Ill get some pictures up when the light arm arrives, definitely before wednesday ive been assured.


----------



## toadass (24 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

Hope the Lighting arm arrives for you buddy, i was looking to buy a whole new set up from them but bit scared now. looking forward to the pics


----------



## Iain Sutherland (24 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

I dont think there is any reason to be concerned.. probably just my bad luck and maybe over reaction 
The tanks etc are good prices but would be interested what shipping and taxes might be?


----------



## somethingfishy (25 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

do you want me to unload the van again ... could be a fun road trip


----------



## Iain Sutherland (25 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

good cakes and a house to stop at in france.....


----------



## somethingfishy (25 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

maybe you should blow the cobwebs out of the camper ... haha that way you can do all the driving too


----------



## Iain Sutherland (25 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. NA delivery, unreasonable?*

could do mate, she needs a good run to france again....

Anyway, rhinox 5000 ceramic diffusors arrived this morning... they are the biggest diffusors i have ever seen, size of a tangerine!!!  
I was going to run both in opposite corners but think one should be ample!  oh well, makes cleaning easier having two


----------



## Antipofish (26 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.*

Do let us know soon as it arrives won't you.  Im eager to see it


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Stocking*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Do let us know soon as it arrives won't you.  Im eager to see it



if you mean the dissuser mike it has arrived already and is big!  Too big!
The tank is set up for two smaller diffusers in opposite corners but bought them at 2am when tired and didnt really see how big they were...  Ill run one and see how it goes.


Stocking
I have been considering my stocking list... i have always wanted congo tetra so was hoping for 5 of them but i want RCS more as they are such good cleaners in large numbers.
Does anyone have any experience with congos and RCS together?  Expensive food?


----------



## somethingfishy (26 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Congos and RCS??*

getting closer now bud bet you are itching to get elbow deep in plants 

cant wait to pop over next week and have a look


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Congos and RCS??*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> getting closer now bud bet you are itching to get elbow deep in plants
> 
> cant wait to pop over next week and have a look



Kettle's always on mate.


----------



## awtong (26 Feb 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Congos and RCS??*

I don't have any shrimp with my Congo's but you would want to keep at least a 2:1 ratio of females to males to spread out their breeding attention.  Mine are getting reasonably large now and a couple of my females have shredded fins from boisterous males and I have 14 females to 7 males!  They have coloured up a treat though.

As you are from Cambridge the MA at Scotsdales had some lovely Congo's recently.

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (1 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Congos and RCS??*

I have had a few change of plans... i have decided that this time round i wont be having emergent growth.  While it is still on my to do list i didnt feel that i had found the correct plants for the look i wanted so best to leave it this time.  I still have quite a few plants in emergent form in the house so will continue to experiment.

Also decided against the congos this time too.  Again, they will go into a scape another day (or another tank   )  I went to an LFS the other day and saw a few species that i hadnt seen in the flesh before that i think will fit quite nicely with the scape.  

My opinion of NaturalAquario is pretty good now, while the light arm still hasnt arrived, they have been on the phone 3 or 4 times yesterday trying to find out whats happening.  It seems the french didnt like it and have had it for 3 days, opened and unwrapped it all for security purposes.  Now i can blame the french    

I have relaid the tank for the last time and im pretty happy with the hardscape, im sure its not perfect but it pleases me and i have to look at it everyday.
Try to get some pictures up over the weekend.....


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Slight change of plans.*

Woohoo, the light stand has arrived and im very pleased with it.  For the price i would highly recommend anyone wishing to purchase a light arm to seriously consider NA.  I couldnt even buy chromed 22mm copper pipe for the same money.  Ill get some pics up once i have fixed it to the cabinet later.  

So finally progress... Ill let the pictures do the talking, no light up so quite dark pics 

Sphagnum Moss Peat and Osmacote in.





second layer of peat




first layer of Akadama




First layout before slight change of plan.




foreground in




Mid-ground done




Little tease until planting is complete 




Would love all and any opinions you may have so far...
Left hand upright rock in foreground needs to move.
Should be finished by the end of the weekend so will get up a FTS and pics of light arm for any interested.


----------



## somethingfishy (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Progress*

really like it buddy and cant wait to pop over and see it properly


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

Morning all, terrible hangover    so just a couple of very average images.


----------



## awtong (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

Loving the look of it so far.

Andy


----------



## faizal (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

I love the depth of your tank. Great aquascaping too by the way


----------



## Ady34 (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

looking great, really like the layout.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

Thanks guys I really enjoyed setting this tank up.
Flow is quite gentle ATM so will be interesting to see how it all settles in. 

Glosso is growing well but the tennelus is melting, is this normal? 
It came in vitro which I thought meant it would adapt better, or did I dream that?


----------



## foxfish (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

Looks great, really nice set up


----------



## Stu Worrall (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

great looking scape and the light arm looks really cool. does it collapse down when its shipped and any chance of some closer photos?

Re the tennelus it will be emerged so will be converting to immersed.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*

Thanks stu, I'll try and get some better pics of the light arm tomorrow.
It comes  in 3 pieces so the top bar and light can be lifted off.


----------



## somethingfishy (4 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Planted, FTS and light arm*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Thanks stu, I'll try and get some better pics of the light arm tomorrow.
> It comes  in 3 pieces so the top bar and light can be lifted off.



after seeing it friday night, i would say its a really smart bit of kit and worth the wait.... plus the tank is looking top notch bud (although it pains me to say it   )


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Light arm*

Few pictures of the light arm for Stu.  Arm is stainless steel, made in 3 pieces, the top arm can be lifted off with the light and slots back in with round steel rod.  It comes pre drilled with 2 holes on each side to fix, first hole 3cm from bottom, next at 60cm , total stand height is 190cm.  They do send 4 allen key bolts but as the holes lined up perfectly with the cabinet joists i just used 2" wood screws.
Only slight draw back is no hole for cables if you wanted to run them down through it.














Hope that helps, i would recommend it.

As always with a new tank im a little nervous about everything so any opinions on the following would be greatly appreciated... especially from the masters   

Im trying my hardest not to fiddle too much with the tank and let it find a level.  I am still moving the diffusers around a little to find a good spot for them and have added a little koralia 900lph PH.  

I have managed to get the drop checkers both lime green at lights on by starting the co2 2 hours before the lights and it doesnt get much more yellow after that.  However, it also only goes back to darker green at night but then ive never had a DC go blue again?

2 x 24w T5's come on 1 hour before the Halide, halide and T5's on for 3 hours then just T5's again for 1 hour.  Light is 60cm above tank for now.  Does this seem ok or could varying light intensities through the period lead to issues while new.

I am water changing every 2 days after lights off, EI dosing minus MgSO4 as dont think i need it with my water.  Dosing 5ml excel each day just for first few weeks, mainly as an algaecide.

I have almost no surface movement, just a very slow rotating.  What is the best way to add surface movement at night for the comfort of the fauna once added?  i dont want to lift the lilys every night as paranoid they will fall down and the tops break off emptying the tank onto the floor.  Another 900lph PH?

With almost 3000lph (before media etc) i should have enough flow, with the lily pipes it is extremely gentle though.  Bolbitus and Microsorum have almost no movement.  I can see that there is soft flow through the middle as when i add the dry ferts i sprinkle them in a different place to see where they get swept.  Also glosso and tennelus has swaying throughout foreground.
Saying that i have growth on the bolbitus and the trident....

So i guess my question is really whether or not having turnover is the same as having heavy visible flow if im happy i have no dead spots????

I will add a video soon so that flow can be seen for a clearer picture of the set up.

On the up side the Rotala pearls everyday, glosso has nice new shoots and tennelus is just showing signs today of growth.








Thanks a lot folks, i really appreciate opinions, finding it difficult to relax about it all at the moment


----------



## ceg4048 (5 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. Light arm*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> ...Im trying my hardest not to fiddle too much with the tank and let it find a level.  I am still moving the diffusers around a little to find a good spot for them and have added a little koralia 900lph PH.
> 
> I have managed to get the drop checkers both lime green at lights on by starting the co2 2 hours before the lights and it doesnt get much more yellow after that.  However, it also only goes back to darker green at night but then ive never had a DC go blue again?


Hi mate,
    Fiddling is fine as long as you fiddle in the right direction and make good decisions. I wouldn't worry too much about the drophecker not turning blue, because if it does, then it's just that much more difficult to get the gas dissolved again in the morning and to get your lime green on schedule.



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> 2 x 24w T5's come on 1 hour before the Halide, halide and T5's on for 3 hours then just T5's again for 1 hour.  Light is 60cm above tank for now.  Does this seem ok or could varying light intensities through the period lead to issues while new.


Varying is only an issue if the variation causes excessive PAR values. The lamp seems to be high up there so the levels are probably OK. Its just very difficult to tell without a PAR meter. As long as you're getting decent growth rates and no algae then I reckon the lighting is fine.



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> I am water changing every 2 days after lights off, EI dosing minus MgSO4 as dont think i need it with my water.  Dosing 5ml excel each day just for first few weeks, mainly as an algaecide.


I prefer to think about the Excel dosing as  an aid to you CO2. That's a much healthier mindset.



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> I have almost no surface movement, just a very slow rotating.  What is the best way to add surface movement at night for the comfort of the fauna once added?  i dont want to lift the lilys every night as paranoid they will fall down and the tops break off emptying the tank onto the floor.  Another 900lph PH?


If fauna are not stressed I'd leave it alone.Have a look at the fish in the early morning about the time when the gas goes on. That is the worst time of the day for them because Oxygen is low and CO2 is coming on, so this is the worst combination. If they are OK at that time of the day then it's not necessary to take any further action. This makes life less complicated.




			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> ...So i guess my question is really whether or not having turnover is the same as having heavy visible flow if im happy i have no dead spots????
> 
> I will add a video soon so that flow can be seen for a clearer picture of the set up.
> 
> On the up side the Rotala pearls everyday, glosso has nice new shoots and tennelus is just showing signs today of growth.


A good rule of thum is if the pearling starts about an hour into the photoperiod. It's really difficult to say without seeing. If there is strong enough flow then you ought to have eliminated any potential deadspots unless you have opposing outlets or something crazy like that.

I think you can relax and enjoy your work. You have the flexibility of turning of a light or two if things startt to go pear shaped, and the fact that you are getting growth ought to be reassuring. Your doing all the right things such as water changes, good flow rates and you're not using Photon Torpedos or Klingon Death Rays....So I reckon you're OK.   

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

Thanks for that Clive, I can sleep a little easier having shared what i thought could be potential issues. 
The main concern i had/have is the flow as it is opposite to what i was doing in my last tank... i learnt from that, that blasting flow around isnt always a great idea... BBA soon followed.
I am hoping to bring the light down a bit but not for a good many weeks, mainly as the light spill is terrible in the lounge with it so high (and its a cheaper unit, rubbish reflector).  That and we all love a photon torpedo or two 

Would love to buy a par meter    and a PH pen as i'd like to track the PH swing over the course of a day to really see what is going on.  Unnessessary i know, but pretty cool    and would eliminate a lot of guess work.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

Some of the trident and windelov ferns have a few black spots/leaf tips which arrived as such, i guess from cold or poor co2 in storage before shipping.
Should i remove these leaves for the plants greater good or leave them?
I doubt they will recover from it...
Have i just answered my own question....


----------



## darren636 (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

plants can re absorb chemicals from their damaged leaves.  but on the other hand melting leaves can be a magnet for algae.


----------



## ceg4048 (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

Yep, remove all damaged leaves and the plant will grow new ones. This is part of the cleanliness strategy...

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

Thanks guys, i am pretty ruthless with my trimming and cleaning but wasnt to sure with the java's if they recover from 'burn spots'.  Scissors out tomorrow then.

Also adding 25 amanos tomorrow to start building up the CUC as the amanos and RCS from my nano seem more than happy.
PH/GH/KH have all stablised which was a shock, was expecting a week or two of fluctuations from akadama. (i dont use the results from testing as such just the variances   )


----------



## Antipofish (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

Its the same theory as chopping hairgrass off down low... stimulates new growth which is better adapted to submerged growth for plants which are originally grown emersed I guess   All the plants I have removed leaves from have done well so far


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite.Light arm and flow questions..*

It's a little different Chris, as java ferns aren't grown emersed, the leaves tend to wither unless in 100% humidity. 
Which I found out trying to grow emersed microsorum (epic fail!)
Damaged leaves will consume nutrients from the plant to try and repair itself which is better used for new growth which as you say is stimulated once removed. Damaged leaves will often also be the first to attract algae IME.
I have no experience with broad leaf javas though so always better to ask the experts


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions*

Its that time, looking to start stocking and cant make a decision.
Current stock:
Loads of amano shrimp
RCS
CRS

CPD's and ottos will go in on Monday.

Im really struggling to decide on a schooling fish.... im sure there are dozens i have never seen.  Whats your favorate?

Further down the line I would like a few larger non agressers to contrast the schools that wont eat all the shrimp (i know ill lose fry but can drip feed adults from my nano).
I did see 3 gouramis that were labelled as gold gouramis that i fell in love with, however they were totally different to the rest of the golds.  They were more brown with darker 'camo' stripes along their backs with gold flashes, LFS said they would just be from a different breeder, of course went back to take them the next day and 2 had gone    
Does this sound right or maybe a different fish??

So im sure there are fish out there that i either have seen in LFS and ruled out due to being dull in shop and others i dont know about.....

Choosing fish is tricky!

Appologies for no update pics, i have some but still on the camera...


----------



## Alastair (9 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

I love ember tetras for their tight shoaling, and their colour contrasts so well with the greens of the plants. Definitely my favourite and small too 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

hey alastair, how did the move go mate?  hope the tank made the journey ok.....

embers are pretty fish but in my strange and disfunctional head they look like baby goldfish   

Ive been considering dwarf neon rainbows (too big?), platinum tetra (cant find), blue tetra (cant find), harlequins... the more i look the more my head pops!

Maybe is should stop thinking about it and just wait until i see some fish i like!


----------



## Alastair (9 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

Not too bad mate, move was hectic and tank went across fine but was sold after 5 days as I was taken into hospital the day after I moved and following this I've had to take a back seat for the time being  
The buyer got an absolute bargain. 

Baby goldfish ha ha. Depends if you've seen them in their true colour. Mine went a really deep orange/red. Plus they didn't give up shoaling when they were comfortable in their surroundings like my rummies did.
Smaller fish also give the illusion of a bigger tank too. 
Dwarf neons are nice too, and harlequins are a definite


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

Im really sorry to hear that fella, i hope you are on the mend now.  Was the buyer from ukaps?  Well i hope its not too long before you get back in saddle, think there were plenty of people looking forward to journal no.2 from you.  On the up side it gives you plenty of time to plan and save up the ££ for a nice optiwhite 

This is the problem i guess, there are so few fish i have actually seen in a home set up that im sure there are some gems out there ive disregarded in the LFS.

I would really love there to be a fish and plant library on UKAPS, like on a far inferior US forum    Guess it would be a lot of work to set up...?


----------



## awtong (10 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

What about Rasbora Espei or Hengli?  Like Harlequins but both have a brilliant flash of orange.  Espei are often labelled as copper Harlequins and Hengli are often called lamb chop's.  You often see them mixed together in LFS tanks.  I think a big shoal of either would look great against the green and they are slightly smaller than the Harley's so would help with keeping the depth of the tank.

Andy


----------



## Alastair (12 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Im really sorry to hear that fella, i hope you are on the mend now.  Was the buyer from ukaps?  Well i hope its not too long before you get back in saddle, think there were plenty of people looking forward to journal no.2 from you.  On the up side it gives you plenty of time to plan and save up the ££ for a nice optiwhite
> 
> This is the problem i guess, there are so few fish i have actually seen in a home set up that im sure there are some gems out there ive disregarded in the LFS.
> 
> I would really love there to be a fish and plant library on UKAPS, like on a far inferior US forum    Guess it would be a lot of work to set up...?



Getting there slowly I hope mate. I guess with the fish, just take your time and wait until you see something that shouts out to you. You've been really patient with your set up so far a few more weeks shouldn't hurt


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. stocking suggestions?*

Did my first trim today as the rotala had hit the surface and the glosso needed it.
Tennelus is very slow now to come back, it totally melted then looked to come on strong but has slowed again.

No sign of diatoms yet so im happy about that, fingers crossed.
Not happy with the stem choice though, need to think a bit harder on that.
Just going through the process of slowly getting rid of the older bolbitus and microsorum leaves and new ones are coming through.
Everything except the stems seems to be nice and slow at the moment which i like.
Took some pics a few days back with nice reflection etc   will do some full tank shots tomorrow night.









edit* just realised quite how out of focus this pic is


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. shrimp*

well that sucks, came down this morning and wondered why my co2 wasnt on?  it seems the leak i had on day one isnt fixed and another 10kg bottle empty in 2 weeks.  Got another bottle from work today so will be leak hunting at midnight tonight after work!

I have switched all the lights off for the day until i find the bugger!!

really must find time to sort some updated pics.... really busy atm.


----------



## darren636 (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. shrimp*

10 kg? ! Not good. How you leak testing? I used olive oil , dabbed on the joints to check for bubbles.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. shrimp*

I have a can of co2 leak tester I use in the cellar at work


----------



## Alastair (22 Mar 2012)

*Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. 10kg co2, 14 days,that cant be right*

Any luck finding the leak mate


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. 10kg co2, 14 days,that cant be r*

All sorted, god bless leak detector spray it makes life too easy.  Leak was at the solenoid.


----------



## Antipofish (23 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. 10kg co2, 14 days,that cant be r*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> All sorted, god bless leak detector spray it makes life too easy.  Leak was at the solenoid.



That stuff is worth every penny  Glad you found the leak.  Was it just a case of tightening the connection ?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. 10kg co2, 14 days,that cant be r*

Bit of PTFE and good as gold.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

So i received my hanna HI98129 PH/TDS meter and calibration solutions so it was looking forward to tracking what is happening with ph/co2 in the tank.

10.30am, No CO2 injection - 6.8
11.00, CO2 turns on
11.15 -                                 6.36
12.00 -                                 6.0
12.30, 2x24w T5 on -            5.81
1.30, 150w HQI on -              5.77
2.55-                                    5.94
3.45-                                    6.08
4.30, CO2 off-                       6.12
5.30, HQI off                         6.21

T5's lights go off at 6.30 so i will continue to measure thoughout the evening but not expecting anything unusual. Interested in peoples thoughts.......

So the ph has done what i guessed it should, ie co2 at its highest when the Halide comes on as the T5's are almost ambient light at 55cm from surface, so im happy with that, i am a little concerned that the ph drops so low.  
Is a low of 5.77 seem unusual?

How accurate will the hanna meter be? I have read lots of good reports, anyone with some experience with this meter?

Thanks


----------



## Radik (26 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

My PH dropping to 5.70 do not be concerned fish and shrimp are alright and Plants grow well


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

just the fauna i was thinking about, tis is well outside the recommended ph levels more most of them...


----------



## darren636 (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

what fish are we talking about? My tank drops a full ph during co2 injection.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

cardinals, harlequins, CPD's, choc gourami, crs, rcs, amano's or anything really... 5.7 is lower than every recommended ph value. 

Im curious if this will affect their behaviour at all, as at lights on they are definately more shy than later in the period or is this more likely from low o2/high co2 from the night, before the plants start repiring o2 again?

either way i guess it is out of my control so best not to overthink it.


----------



## Alastair (27 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

Don't worry about the ph drop mate, I had the same in my set up too with similar fish and chocolate gouramis. I remember one of Clive's articles where he showed that ph drops are nothing to worry about. I never saw any ill effect what so ever. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (29 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. PH/CO2 cycle*

Cheers alistair, thats nice to know.

Well, i have been scratching my head a bit obver the last week or so... my foreground was a PITA!  The vitro tennelus took 2 weeks to melt completely and to really show proper signs of new growth, now it is taking off, runners going all over the show.  Sadly the glosso isnt doing so well, its quite happy growing straight up 
Out came the scissors as i gave the glosso another good trim yesterday, replanted the cuttings and changed the co2 back over to the old trusty UP inline and upped the BPS.  Even after 2 days i have horizontal growth on the glosso so with a little luck problem solved.
I also started to see some diatoms which i was hoping i had dodged and a tiny bit of GSA, hopefully the improved CO2 distribution will also sort that.
Thankfully im now at a point where any struggling old leaf on the microsorum and bolbitus has been cut away and plenty of new growth on every plant coming through.
With a little luck in a week or two i should see definate signs of the scape going the way i wish it too.  I stil have wonky picture/camera issues that i need to sort this weekend so unable to get any pics up ATM.

One curiousity... as soon as i put the UP inline on my harlequins all started glass chasing under my powerhead?? up,down,up, down...... if i turn the powerhead off they swim away normally, quite why it started when the inline went on i have no idea!!  They seems to have stopped today, just thought it was weird, stupid fish!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (31 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

Little pic update, you might to able to guess im slightly obsessed with the chocolate gourami at the moment.














Hitchiker on the exposed wood, made himself a nice little web   




This is my issue.. how/should i deal with the old tennelus from emersed form that is attracting algae??  If i want to get rid of just the dead leaf then the whole plant tends to come out, or should i just chop all of the tennelus back to the substrate?



Touch wood things are looking better by the day, wish i had put the inline atomiser on to start with!!

Will get a FTS up another time as i just trimmed all the stems etc and forgot to take one before


----------



## Alastair (31 Mar 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

Just chop the tennelus right back mate, it will soon grow new leaves and carpet pretty quick. 
Love the pics of the chocs, can't wait to get mine back. They should hopefully get a little deeper in colour too then they really stand out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## somethingfishy (1 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

Great pics bud .. keep them coming then i wont have to pop round yours so much


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

thanks guys..
so i have chopped the tennelus right back to the substrate, trimmed some of the glosso and all the stems.  just have to wait and see now...


----------



## awtong (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

I am not a Gourami fan at all but those little blighters are superb!

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> I am not a Gourami fan at all but those little blighters are superb!
> 
> Andy



they really are, i wont lie i absolutely lov 'um!!  Friendliest fish ive ever had, contrary to most info as shy   

Sadly, one gourami went carpet surfing 2 days ago, while its hard to tell i think it was the only male so im just going to have to buy a few more now


----------



## Westyggx (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x45x75 optiwhite. few pics*

Chocs are gorgeous there so inquisitive!


----------



## somethingfishy (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*

There is definately a little choc apreciation club starting here, just need to get you avatar pic sorted bud.

Having seen them in your tank i must admit i wish i was in the gang they are really good looking fish.


----------



## Antipofish (2 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> There is definately a little choc apreciation club starting here, just need to get you avatar pic sorted bud.
> 
> Having seen them in your tank i must admit i wish i was in the gang they are really good looking fish.



A new club ? Where do I join ?  I would like a few chocos in my new nano but wonder if 30L would be too small for them ?  Thinking of having a trio of bulldog plecs, some choc gouramie and some CPDs


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*

definitely too small, bulldogs wouldnt be too happy either i'd guess. 30l is pretty small.


----------



## Antipofish (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> definitely too small, bulldogs wouldnt be too happy either i'd guess. 30l is pretty small.



Righto ! will swap choice of bulldogs for ottos and rethink the chocs


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*

well that sucks, ive just reorganised my photobucket as it had 6  tanks all in one albulm and doing so voids all previous links!!  So now i have to go back through my journal here and ultimate reef etc and replace all the links!! That seems like crappy programming to me.

Yes, i know it does warn you this will happen but in my haste i just clicked move...


----------



## Ian Holdich (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*

i had chocs for a while, they aren't good for an open top IMO. I lost all but 2 out of a group of 8 through jumping. Great fish though, they aren't as shy as people think.

Nice pics as well!


----------



## Westyggx (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> i had chocs for a while, they aren't good for an open top IMO. I lost all but 2 out of a group of 8 through jumping. Great fish though, they aren't as shy as people think.
> 
> Nice pics as well!



I never lost any when i had open top halides mate.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. few pics*

Think most fish will jump, just luck, or should that be bad luck....


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Apr 2012)

*what a day!!*

Wow, what a day!!  Was due some maintenance on the tank and just had a nightmare from start to finish.
First time cleaning the lily pipes... glad i only have to do that every month or two!
While messing with the floss etc the inline atomiser must have come loose as i came down an hour after i finished  to find my 10ltr auto top up was almost empty and now it was in the cabinet and on the carpet!!  When i looked it was holding on by about 1mm, would have emptied the tank had it come off!!! Tightened right up with jubilee clips but still a tiny drip every 10 mins, ive had nothing but issues since i started using this cheap clear tubing from ebay, going to replace it this week. I think it stretches easily as i had to trim 1/2 inch off the ends to get a seal on the lily pipes also.

Gave the plants a little trim and did a 75% water changes as i have some diatoms and  BBA, fairly wide spread but very tiny, Ive upped the co2 and increased the powerhead output to about 2000lph, so with the pro2 and pro3 it must be enough now. Will just have to see if things improve or will have to rethink the distribution.  Also added some Ottos yesterday which were good and fat , £9 for 5 too  
Changed out all the floss and added another bag of purigen also.

Tennelus and glosso are coming back well after cutting right back to substrate 3 days ago   

I had also been meaning to play with the movie setting on the camera, not the best time to do it right after maintenance, bright outside and lots of co2 moving around...  need to figure out what to use to edit it properly.. any suggestions??

I would love to say best viewed in HD but to be honest probably best viewed squinting!!  Ill try harder another day when im not rushed and pissed off   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3T5ltvB ... tube_gdata


----------



## Markmark (6 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. what a day + movie of sorts.*

Looks really nice mate.


----------



## Westyggx (6 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. what a day + movie of sorts..*

Iain, I was looking at getting the clear tubing from eBay I take it you wouldn't recommend then.. What you going to replace it with so I can take a look at before I order. Ta


----------



## Antipofish (6 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. what a day + movie of sorts..*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> Iain, I was looking at getting the clear tubing from eBay I take it you wouldn't recommend then.. What you going to replace it with so I can take a look at before I order. Ta



Mike, I bought some cheapo clear tubing @ Maidenhead Aquatics and found it to be very good stuff.  TOO good in fact as it created such a seal around the plastic connectors on my G6 hose adaptor that I had to CUT it off.  It just would not pull off ! I believe that it was £2.95/m


----------



## Iain Sutherland (8 Apr 2012)

*Re: Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. what a day + movie of sorts..*



			
				Westyggx said:
			
		

> Iain, I was looking at getting the clear tubing from eBay I take it you wouldn't recommend then.. What you going to replace it with so I can take a look at before I order. Ta



Defo wouldnt recommend it, bad seals and not much use if you have to cut an inch off each time!
Im looking for the smoked grey tubing as also dont like the fact the 'grime' is so obvious when you havent cleaned the tubes for a week or so.  Any suggestions where to source welcome.

On the up side it made taking the lily pipes off really easy... almost fell off   
Is there a nack to removing lilys when its a tight seal with the tubing??  Was thinking vaseline when put together would aid removal..???


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  lighting help....*

My tank is now 6 weeks in and all plants are doing well excluding the carpet.
Tennelus is slow but sure which i can live with but the glosso is frustrating.  Since cutting it all back to half cm from substrate more of it is running the way it should albeit diagonally but a lot still grows straight up.  I am very tempted to lower the light as it is still very high, 80cm from substrate and 40cm from the surface.  I have recently upped the co2 along with changing to the inline diffuser and cut the light period to 5 hours which seems to have resolved the BBA i did have.

So the question is should i drop the light down by 10cm????  or is that just asking for trouble.....


----------



## Antipofish (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. lighting help...*

I read on someone else's thread that they had to lower their light to get it growing horizontal. It was on a nano.. not sure if it was James's 60p thread ?  However, what worked in that tank could be because he had other plants that were happy with that extra light too.  I guess its a suck it and see situation Iain.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. lighting help...*

you just gotta love new toys 










looks super easy to plumb in too, hopefully have it running tomorrow as desperately need to up my water changes!!


----------



## leonroy (11 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new toy and lighting help...*

Looks great mate. Regarding the osmosis unit, quality outfit Osmotics. I can't speak highly enough of Mark who sorted me out with a hundred questions about RO.

I also get the deionisation resin pack but TBH in retrospect I wouldn't recommend it for planted tanks unless you're keeping a marine setup somewhere?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (11 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new toy and lighting help...*

running marine as well mate so was advised that the four stage would be the best bet.
I would agree that osmotics are extremely helpful, i was looking at the 37gpd but they advised me to go for the 75gpd.  Plumbed it in today and it produces about 10-15 lph which is ideal for what i use it for.

Im very happy with it and osmotics, having my own RO feels like making money


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. need some advise please.*

Hey everyone, things arent quite going as smoothly as i would like and am struggling to see how to proceed so would like your opinions please.

The problem i have is i dont really know how to improve my flow, the tank is 90x75x45 that runs an eheim pro2 (soon to be G6)  pro 3 (2500lph with both) and a tunze powerhead at 1800lph.  The config is the pro two runs the up inline atomiser on intake and blows out through lilys across the back of the tank from back left corner.  The pro 3 runs the inline heater and blows from front right corner across the front.  The powerhead blows from back right pointing towards substrate and front glass to create a circular flow.

However my tennelus and glosso carpet are struggling and have BBA in the base of the tennelus.

The problem i have is i dont really know how i can change the set up due to the tank depth, a circular flow seems to be the obvious choice.  I have considered getting another inline atomiser and run two spray bars along the back of the tank pointing at the front but feel that the flow wouldnt be adequate to deal with 75cm depth and the back would then struggle??

My co2 is at its limit before fish behaviour changes and DC is pale green/ yellow at lights on.  I have slashed my light period to just 3 hours with 150w HQI and 2 x 24w T5 run 5 hours with HQi, glosso has started growing vertically again as i also raised the light up 10cm to 70cm from substrate.  I also dose 15ml excel daily and generous EI.

I find this very frustrating as im really at a loss how to improve the flow, if i turn the powerhead up then it turns into a washing machine....

Any advise would be much appreciated especially from anyone who has had a deep tank before.
I will post up another video of the configuration and how the flow looks tomorrow.

Thanks guys


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Ian, to be honest, I think that anything other than an FX5 (aka bucket with a pump on it) would fail to have the velocity you require with a tank that size.  To that end, have you considered letting the filters do the job they were intended to do, and use alternative methods to create the flow and distribution of CO2 ?  I would imagine two or three well positioned korallias at the back of the tank would achieve that side of the equation.  

Alternatively, how about a couple of external pumps with jet returns for flow/distribuition ?  I read a thread about using grundfos CH pumps with an £8 attachment to turn them into aquatic pumps (the adaptor received a Prince of Wales innovation award apparently so its not a pile of rubble).  The reef boys really know what they are on about with circulation and you keep marines too so must have access to relevant forums regarding this ?

I honestly think its the best way forward.  Your tank is something special with its dimensions, but it comes with its complications.  I am sure you can overcome them though.  Maybe start by having some korallias at the back facing forward.  Because the way the flow will spread out, maybe place them at the 1/3 and 2/3 portions of the tank ?  If you find that works you can look at alternative external options to do the same job  if you want stuff out of the tank.  

It may also be that a split CO2 introduction is a good idea.  If you went with external pumps it could be inline to those, or even maybe consider internal diffusers ?

Just my thoughts, nothing set in concrete but hopefully not too daft to be worth thinking about


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

appeciate the input chris however i dont think that is the way forward as im not putting 2 or 3 powerheads in the tank only for everything to be blown around like crazy and would stress the fauna.
When i see tanks like James Findleys 'natures chaos' which is much much bigger but doesnt have turbulent water and no powerheads i struggle to understand which way i should go forward.

I used to run internal ceramic diffusers but changed then to inline as distribution was not even.

I have no real issues growing plants in small tanks but big ones seem to get me everytime!!


----------



## Alastair (15 Apr 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Hi mate, from my experience with my previous tank, which was 65 depth I think, I found lily pipes etc just cut velocity of flow far too much. I used the standard eheim outlets, one rear left pointing right across the back, facing down at an angle slightly, and the other front right blowing left and down which gave me very good flow around the whole tank and my glosso took off really well once I'd done that. It also meant I only needed the inline to be run by one filter too instead of splitting it. The powerhead I had I also placed on the right side but about quarter of the way from the front glass which helped blow the co2 Laden water from the outlet on the left and also down to my glosso. 

If that makes sense and this was in my vision 450 which was a pain for flow which you know Mate 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Thanks alistair, i have just ordered a new pair of shepherds crooks so will swop them over later in the week and see if the lilys are part of the problem. 
Knowing what isnt the problem i guess is as important as finding the cure, learning wise.  I will see this tank through to the end though as i need to crack the big tank jinx i have at the moment. 
Why is failure always a pre requisite to success   :?


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> appeciate the input chris however i dont think that is the way forward as im not putting 2 or 3 powerheads in the tank only for everything to be blown around like crazy and would stress the fauna.
> When i see tanks like James Findleys 'natures chaos' which is much much bigger but doesnt have turbulent water and no powerheads i struggle to understand which way i should go forward.
> 
> I used to run internal ceramic diffusers but changed then to inline as distribution was not even.
> ...



James told me on the phone that they definitely had extra circulation in Natures Chaos mate. And I wasn't talking about blowing stuff around like a washing machine.  But there can be no doubt that a powerhead or circulation pump would do the job of distributing CO2 much better than a spraybar in a tank your depth.  Like I said, and you have mentioned it yourself, if you want more even distribution, maybe two diffusers will work better than one   Good luck.


----------



## Ady34 (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. need some advise please.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> The powerhead blows from back right pointing towards substrate and front glass to create a circular flow.
> 
> However my tennelus and glosso carpet are struggling and have BBA in the base of the tennelus.
> 
> ...



Hi Iain,
have you tried positioning the powerhead at the left hand rear of the tank, below the filter inlet, but much but lower down in the water column and pointing along the rear of the tank to maintain the circular flow pattern? This way you would maximise the water movement from the powerhead at substrate level. If your hardscape would prevent this at the rear, then try putting it in the lower front right corner pointing across the front towards the left of the tank, again keeping the circular flow pattern but maximising substrate level water movement. If you dont like the idea of the powerhead being at the front of the tank you could place it lower right rear corner pointing towards the front glass. What im basically trying to say is put the powerhead as low down in the water column as possible to maximise its efficiency where your struggling with flow. Hopefully the c02 distributed from the filter outlet will be sufficiently drawn downwards to be distributed evenly with good circulation at all levels.
Prob looking back at the vid on p11, right rear low down may be best to ensure even flow to all the lower regions. As it is currently the right front may be a little stagnant. Also this will have the benefit of distributing c02 pushed downwards from the left inlet after hitting the right side glass so could work well.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Thats handy to know chris, im going to try the old school outlets and then maybe think about splitting my co2 between both outlets, although i dont think this should be needed.
i guess that ill know in a week or so if it helps.


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Thats handy to know chris, im going to try the old school outlets and then maybe think about splitting my co2 between both outlets, although i dont think this should be needed.
> i guess that ill know in a week or so if it helps.



Cool.  He basically said he does not subscribe to the high flow theory in normal sized tanks, but in ones such as natures chaos, they did add additional circulation.  We had that conversation when I was mentioning to him that I saw a 40% reduction in flow on my G6 when I added the AM1000 reactor.  George also is not too fussed on massive flow, and look at his results !  Perfect every time, damn him, LOL.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Low flow seems to be 'in' right now, problem is when you are new, which most of us are, we seem to need lots of flow to be sure distribution is ok.  I guess once you've had several successful tanks then slowing things down becomes easier and more obvious to do successfully.  
Baffles me how people such as Mark Evans have relatively low light, flow and ferts but still get intense high tech results.
One day......


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. need some advise please.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> ...The problem i have is i dont really know how to improve my flow, the tank is 90x75x45 that runs an eheim pro2 (soon to be G6)  pro 3 (2500lph with both) and a tunze powerhead at 1800lph.  The config is the pro two runs the up inline atomiser on intake and blows out through lilys across the back of the tank from back left corner.  The pro 3 runs the inline heater and blows from front right corner across the front.  The powerhead blows from back right pointing towards substrate and front glass to create a circular flow..


This does not deliver circular flow as your tennelus and glosso attest. What you most likely have done is to create a collision of flow with one filters energy cancelling or interfering with the other. The powerhead also cancels or possibly reverses the downward movement of the water column.

I don't know why everyone thinks that they can play ping-pong with water. It can never work unless by some miracle the flow energies line up. To optimize distribution in the tank. All flow outlets must be on the same wall, pointing straight ahead in the same direction. The distance between each outlet should be equidistant across the mounting wall. In this way, all flow energies line up and combine to be additive. Any other arrangement results in loss of flow efficiency because fllows will be headed in opposite directions resulting in stagnation. Think about the engine arrangement on a 747. Which way are all engines pointing? What would happen if  one were pointed diagonally up and to the left, another down and to the left and the other two diagonally up and down to the right? Which arrangement maximizes the output energy of the jet outflow?

It doesn't matter how much flow you have if you waste it.

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Thankyou clive, this i understand but the problem is i cant see a logical way to make improvements (i appreciate its trial and error but would like to avoid the error   ).  how do you think the best way to set it up would be?  i dont think spraybars across the back would have enough umph to move the water 75cm and then carry the flow back the same distance at substrate level??  
The only other option i can think of is standard outlets both on the back firing at the front glass??  Which to be honest seems a bit odd to me...


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pipe outlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more powerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pie otlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more porwerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.
> 
> Cheers,



i guess it seems odd as i dont remember seeing a tank set up like that before, outlets always seem to be on opposing side to make the 'circular' flow...    I cant help feel that this will only work with co2 being injected into both outlets?
Do you think 2 spray bars along the back both with an inline diffuser would also be a viable option considering the width of the tank?

So the plan at the moment is i will swop the pro 2 for the g6, change the lilys for standard outlets and have both filters leaving the back of the tank pointed at the front glass and see how things improve.


----------



## ceg4048 (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> ceg4048 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe that's why so many people have problems? And maybe that's why the people who seem odd don't have these problems? Just musing at this point...



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> I cant help feel that this will only work with co2 being injected into both outlets?


Well, more CO2 injectors always works better than one. 



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Do you think 2 spray bars along the back both with an inline diffuser would also be a viable option considering the width of the tank?


Yep, definitely. That's what I do, but there are so many lily pipe fanbois out there that I hesitate to suggest it.

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

i bought lily pipes (cheap asian ones i might add), i love the look but the flow they produce seems to be reduced and all at the surface and not pushed down to where it is needed.

DIY acrylic spraybars to be made this week then and then patience.

Thanks for the help clive.


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Why does this seem odd mate? In fact I'm suggesting that both pipe outlets as well as your turbo jet be mounted along the back wall equally spaced along the wall. The more powerful of the output should be in the center. You should see an immediate improvement in flow.
> 
> Cheers,



I have to agree. Its what I said earlier about equally spacing the korallias (if you were to get some).  In the absence of extra devices, your normal returns acting as jets rather than spraybars plus the turbo jet would do the trick.  I did it just with spraybars the way Clive told me to and it made the difference, but in your case spraybars wont have the oomph due to the 75cm depth.  All you need to do is set it up like that and observe   I bet you anything that it will make a difference.    The theory, in case you are not familiar (sorry if Im teaching you to suck eggs etc) is that as a jet of water coming forward it will hit the front glass and be deflected down and back in a forward: down: back motion.


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> i bought lily pipes (cheap asian ones i might add), i love the look but the flow they produce seems to be reduced and all at the surface and not pushed down to where it is needed.
> 
> DIY acrylic spraybars to be made this week then and then patience.
> 
> Thanks for the help clive.



I think Cal Aqua make different shapes.  Some that deflect the flow upwards for surface agitation, some that deflect it down.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

yeah i was just looking at the violet version.  Happy to go with this for now, focus on the plants and worry about aesthetics at a later date.  That and i dont want to spend £130 for 2 outlets!!


----------



## Antipofish (15 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> yeah i was just looking at the violet version.  Happy to go with this for now, focus on the plants and worry about aesthetics at a later date.  That and i dont want to spend £130 for 2 outlets!!




Hahaha, why not, you already took out a second mortgage on the rest of the tank   Nah I know where you are coming from.

Remind me again, what two filters are you running and what are their lph ratings (what they are ACTUALLY doing, not what the pump is rated at ?)  And what was the power head that clive referred to  ?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

Clive, i bow down sir    I figured that changing the flow with what i have is better than waiting etc..
Now have both lily pipes coming from either side of the back with the powerhead in the middle.
I got  extremely wet as i didn't fasten the up atomiser properly and it came off when i started the filter   
There always seems to be something....
Anyhoo, the flow was looking to be an immediate improvement but wasnt until i fed the fish that i really appreciated how well it worked.  I figured id leave the filters on and feed brine shrimp and see where they go.  Squirted it in the middle of the tank and it all went to the front glass, through the annoying glosso and reached right to the back of the tank.  My doubts about the filter output not being enough to go the distance are put to rest.  

I still need to attach the second atomiser once it arrives and figure out how attach the lily pipes as suckers dont stick to the back of the tank due to the frosting film.

Took a very quick pic to show setup.





Will be interesting to see how things improve. 
Cheers Mate!


----------



## Antipofish (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. advise needed please*

As you have that frosting and you said the lily suckers wont attach, how about a dab of silicon on the suckers ? It comes off and should do the trick and you can take the glass off the sucker and leave that in place for cleaning


----------



## somethingfishy (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Chuffed for you bud ... glad you did not have to drill anymore holes, hopefully with your new warpspeed (cegs not the only scifi fan) distrubution the tank will get better and better


----------



## Antipofish (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Glad to see its working for you  Told you so     (hehehe)  Back to front, works every time.     Looks like we are both on the right track now as my tank seems to be looking up too now I got the flow and CO2 levels moving in the right direction.


----------



## ceg4048 (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Iain,
       Your neighbor just sent me an email stating that he saw through the window what you were doing with the lily pipes and that he thought as a result, you were an oddball.

Now you should trim your glosso. If the flow is improved then this will help diffuse the and carry away the ethelyne buildup in the plant tissues and the new leaves should grow horizontally. If they do not then you know you still have not solved the problem of flow. 

Always remember that glosso/HC growing upward is the plants way of telling you that your flow is crapola.

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

My neighbour needs to stop looking in my window, i did tease her and do it in my pants 

The frustrating thing is clive i had read on so many of your posts about single direction flow and have advised it elsewhere but for some reason thought the width of my tank was somehow different, i need to tune into the matrix more 

In no way is it on my agenda but am interested... i had read on a few threads and discussions about glosso that its one of the few carpet plants does respond to higher lighting to grow flat, or that it can take several trims before flat growth.  Do you subscribe to this thinking?

thanks again Ceg, glosso was gunna get it tomorrow anyway which will be its second trim, the best learning is trying.


----------



## ceg4048 (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> In no way is it on my agenda but am interested... i had read on a few threads and discussions about glosso that its one of the few carpet plants does respond to higher lighting to grow flat, or that it can take several trims before flat growth.  Do you subscribe to this thinking?


No. that is another illusion of The Matrix. As I mentioned, glosso responds as all other Submerged Aquatic Macrophytes (SAM) to the environmental impact of submersion. Vertical growth is a response to the gaseous hormone Ethylene (C2H4) as discussed in http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14304

The people who tell you to add more light to get carpet plants to grow horizontally are obviously Klingons in sheep's clothing. Read more about ethylene here=> Ethylene-promoted Elongation: an Adaptation to Submergence Stress

Cheers,


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Thanks clive, i shall see how i go... no interest in lowering the light as the whole idea of this tank was to be gentle light for an easier life.
Will the algae in the foreground eventually go altogether if co2 etc is all correct as in my first tank i struggled to get rid of algae in hairgrass even though co2 etc seemed to be ok?

Picked up some ottos from ornamental fish farm near bury a week ago, they were just £2 each which was a bargain and they looked nice and healthy.
They are the most effective algae eating ottos ive ever had!! Think they might qualify for government grants due to obesity.   





also received the coral pelia from basil which looks nice and some huge portions of fissidens  from John C.
this is one portion dropped in a spot to grow in, i got two portions and am trying some in a propagator chopped up on rock.
Cheers john, great moss!!   




Also have a large amount of pearling on microsorum's and stems so flow must have improved a lot as never had it in this tank before now really.


----------



## geaves (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Picked up some ottos the other day from ornimental fish farm near bury, they were just £2 each which was a bargain and they looked nice and healthy.



They are never seen them that 'fat' before.....got an address or postcode, thx.


----------



## foxfish (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

When I grew glosso in my log tank I use two 39wT5s for 7 hours a day & it tried very hard to grow away from the light source!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				geaves said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



as above mate, google will show it up.
Only a few left though, wish i had taken them all.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> When I grew glosso in my log tank I use two 39wT5s for 7 hours a day & it tried very hard to grow away from the light source!



Thanks for the pic, i remember reading this journal, very interesting it was too


----------



## Antipofish (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> geaves said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ornamental Fish Farm 
Tut Hill Fornham  
All Saints 
Bury St. Edmunds  
Suffolk  
IP28 6LD  
Tel: 01284 703418


----------



## greenink (17 Apr 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Tank looks fantastic. Am going to try shifting my returns to your set up, have them slightly angled now, will see what difference it makes!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Ornamental Fish Farm
> Tut Hill Fornham
> All Saints
> Bury St. Edmunds
> ...



look at you making me look like a lazy bar steward!!  No harm in making people use some initiative


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> Tank looks fantastic. Am going to try shifting my returns to your set up, have them slightly angled now, will see what difference it makes!



Thanks mate, go for it! to get pearling on day one something must be better!!  TAKE THE RED PILL


----------



## Antipofish (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol well it wasn't my intention     Just that I decided to take a look myself.  Im wondering if they do mail order.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

unfortunately not, i asked as most of the fauna they carry is at least half the price of MA.  He did say they keep there ottos for 4 weeks in QT fed courgette and cucumber which explains the size.  
Was in MA the other day and their ottos are tiny and still dying but then they feed them algae pellets and wonder why..!!
Amano shrimp were just a couple of quid too


----------



## geaves (17 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Antipofish said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Chris......TBH I did find it via google just wanted confirmation.....  not too far from me, just that I can't get them locally....went to Aldham on Saturday....none there either.


----------



## awtong (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

I would add that it is worth inspecting the fish very carefully.  I have noticed fish quality to be a bit up and down at this store.  Sometimes you can grab a cracking bargain though   

I have been going there off and on for the last 25+ years so they must be doing something right.

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. flow improved.*

Grabbed a couple of pics today before work, just under the T5's.

One to confuse you.




Happy stems




I have just also noticed that all 4 anubia coffefolia plants have also put out new leaves, first since they went in the tank   Fish also seem happier, i guess because the plants are oxygenating the water more and a little more surface movement.


----------



## Ady34 (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

Sounds and looks like youve got it cracked now mate.   
Nice gravity defying snail shot too!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (18 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

i wouldnt go that far ady, but at least things are looking up rather than down.

I got hamshorns in some plants i guess, slow breeding so not worried but they all do this, i think they eat the surface scum? which is also nearly gone now.  Makes catching them easy


----------



## Tim Harrison (23 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*



> The people who tell you to add more light to get carpet plants to grow horizontally are obviously Klingons in sheep's clothing. Read more about ethylene here=> Ethylene-promoted Elongation: an Adaptation to Submergence Stress



Great post and link Clive, does that hold for true SAM or just those species with adaptations to periodic inundation?

And I know this is a little off topic - but please humour me nevertheless - is that actually a picture of you or an avatar?...always wanted to know but never dared ask.

And come to think of it what are you doing in Stockholm?...That has always intrigued me...Do you work for IKEA?


----------



## Alastair (23 Apr 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite.*

Tis an avatar if I'm not wrong. A hip hop artist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ceg4048 (24 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> > The people who tell you to add more light to get carpet plants to grow horizontally are obviously Klingons in sheep's clothing. Read more about ethylene here=> Ethylene-promoted Elongation: an Adaptation to Submergence Stress
> 
> 
> 
> Great post and link Clive, does that hold for true SAM or just those species with adaptations to periodic inundation?


Thanks Troi. If by the term "true SAM" you mean the SAMs that spend 100% of their time submerged then I'm not really sure. The whole idea is gas exchange and the promotion of CO2/O2 consumption, so that there are other strategies involved, which would include morphological differences. Ethylene production is accelerated by hypoxia, so if the plant is already well adapted to the conditions, i.e. well developed aerenchyma in roots and stems and well developed lacunae in leaves, which serve as gas reservoirs, this reduces the stress and the need for elongation. Vallis, Cabomba, Egeria, Myriophyllum, although always submerged do grow to the surface.  Vallis, at least, has the ability to obtain CO2 from dissolved HCO3. It's no surprise that these constitute some of the most invasive species around. Ironically, the most popular plants are some of the ones that are almost never found submerged in nature, like Anubias and HC. Carpet plants in general are the ones that people complain about all the time having leggy growth. 



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> And I know this is a little off topic - but please humour me nevertheless - is that actually a picture of you or an avatar?...always wanted to know but never dared ask.


  No mate, that's not me. As Alastair mentions, that's just some a random gangsta' rapper.



			
				Troi said:
			
		

> And come to think of it what are you doing in Stockholm?...That has always intrigued me...Do you work for IKEA?


No, I only dream about having IKEA's financial portfolio. I've never even shopped at IKEA. I just don't get the whole minimalist Scandinavian theme thing. Authorities have labeled me "The Most Dangerous Man Alive", so I'm constantly on the move, picking suitable random locations from which to broadcast my pirate signal and hack into The Matrix. 8) 

Cheers,


----------



## faizal (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

He's also one of the most sincere & helpful person i've ever come across any forum.  Clive rocks dude.


----------



## Ian Holdich (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

those stems look well! Nice pics as well.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (25 Apr 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

Thanks ian, plant health is definitely on the up but not perfect yet!

Added a G6 to replace the pro2 and immediately had a few issues which were baffling me but i think i found the cause for the flow loss...  Seems my G6 does not like having the inline co2 on the inlet, rather than diffuse the co2 in the canister it gathers it up and causes the drop, swopped the inline to the outlet and flow went straight to 100%.  Sadly im now back to having half a misty tank as the eheim looks to give 100% disolution (to the eye anyway).

Interesting to see how quickly the BBA in the supposed carpet is diminishing now flow is better, its still there but i got its balls in a vice 

Gave the tank a major clean up/trim the other day including a rock scrubbing which also made it very apparent quite how soft mini landscape rock is.  Im pretty sure there is no point in me continuing the 50% RO to soften my water as i think the rock counter acts that pretty quickly, makes me feel better for the choc gouramis doing it though.

Must be time to update some pics i guess.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  What is plan B clive?*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Thanks ian, plant health is definitely on the up but not perfect yet!
> 
> Interesting to see how quickly the BBA in the supposed carpet is diminishing now flow is better, its still there but i got its balls in a vice



well i think i spoke a little too soon, for the first time in a while since i changed the flow set up i was home for a light period and the opportunity to see what is going on.  Following the big trim last friday the tennelus is pretty slow coming pack and looks 'weak' compared to the recovery of the trim previous.  BBA is still persistent on most of the tennelus, mainly covering the runners and any old leaf that the scissors missed.  While the BBA is definitely worst here is is also visible on a some of the boblitus (fluffy edge to the leaves) so i am now wondering what plan B is???

Currently have a eheim pro3 on one side pointing at the front glass and the G6 on the other, both with inline atomisers and a small 900lph p/h in the middle going towards front glass.  It looks from the micro bubbles that the flow is reaching all areas of the tanks and interestingly the plants at the back of the tank with less velocity of flow and very little visable movement, seem to be doing better than at the front ... i think the realistic flow is around 2500-3000 lph as G6 shows 100% (1000lph real flow) eheim rated at 1450 so maybe 900lph odd and a 900lph powehead, so in theory nearly doing the 10x rule even after media reduction etc so should be plenty which leads me towards how to better disperse that flow?

While i like the G6 features i am really struggling with it on this tank.  I have never had a filter that builds up gas in the canister like this, it feels like all the co2 injected just builds up so when i move the filter it spits lots of large bubbles out for about 5 minutes.  At first i thought this was because the inline was prefilter so swopped it round but seems to have made little difference.  The eheim doesnt do this, only media difference is the eheim runs floss....??
I dont know how much effect this co2 retention has on the tank?

I have a full light period at home tomorrow so will do a video and some pics for a better idea of what is going on but thought id get started on the update while im getting paid at work   

To narrow the field:
CO2 on 2 hours pre lights, drop checker pale green by lights on and remains so (wherever i put the DC)
CO2 off 1 hour before lights off.  Fairly dark green by lights off.
Full EI dosing KN03, KH2PO4, trace and 10ml excel daily.
I try for Twice weekly water changes with 65% RO but sometimes goes a little longer..
5.5 hrs of 150w MH and 2 x 24w T5 50cm from surface, 2 x T5 1.5hrs after MH off.
Mechanical filter media changed/cleaned once a week.
Temp 25.5C

So the question is what to do..???  More flow, less flow, different flow set up, more co2.... things ive have thought as possibilities:
One option is to change the outlets to two acrylic spraybars across the back as i finally spent some time yesterday with somethingfishy bending some sets (after a lot of crappy ones i think we got somewhere, pics tomorrow) 
Another option which ive considered a few times is to ditch the G6 and buy two decent variable control pumps that can run the inline atomisers only and just the pro 3 with lots of media and low flow poppy style outlets for biological filtration only..??

So folks, now i need advise.  Im would assume most/all of the problem is flow/co2 but not sure how to move forward.  Any input would be gratefully received.

On a side note my biggest chocolate gourami that was beautiful went carpet surfing last night    genuinely heart broken!!
Also went wood hunting and possibly hit gold, unfortunately didnt realise until on the way out it was on a military firing range that was being used that day   but thats another story...   

Thanks a lot


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

Hi Mike.  I never noticed, when I had the G6, any build up of gas in it when I ran the diffuser on the outlet.  How about trying some filter floss in the middle red tray ?  not full of course, but laying on top of whatever other media you have ? I would advise against putting anything restrictive in the top tray though. 

With those two filters there is no way you have insufficient flow.  Its either down to distribution OR amount of CO2.  And I would have thought you had the latter covered and sounds like you *should* have distribution covered too.  Have you moved your DC around to monitor levels all over? I cannot remember if you said you have already done that.  

You could consider another option which is to have your CO2 injection using in tank diffusion and do as you say, ditch the G6 in favour of a couple of vortechs   Keep battling though.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B clive??*

Is mike a pet name you have for me 
Yeah quite disapointed with the G6, i ve had a few filters now and never had this issue before.  Just reminds me why i like eheims so much! Dunno, maybe its me seeing as the G6 get such good reviews...

I have often wondered why people, myself included, always buy a second filter rather than run one heavily loaded large filter and a couple of pumps or MP10's to deal with flow??

Ill be interested on what people opinions are of the flow after i post a video.... as the tank is 75cm wide a lot of the flow dissipates over that distance to the point of almost no movement at the back yet less algae there.???  

I removed most of the glosso as thought it will be easier to focus on one foreground plant and excluding the tennelus the scape is maturing quite well... slowly but surely as i expected with the light so high above the surface and mostly slow growing plants so by no means am i dis-hearted just more frustrated.  I have vowed to complete this scape what ever the issues though, i want to crack this tank ready for scape 2 next year


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

Sorry Iain, LOL.  Dunno why I call you Mike sometimes.  

I know what you mean about the reviews about the G6.  To be honest it, its "just another filter" as far as I am concerned.  It does the job but the reviews it seems to get makes you wonder !!  Now I have my Eheim Pro3E I would never go back, thats for sure.  To be fair though, I don't know that we can fairly slate it because of the way it handles CO2 bubbles, since it is not designed to do that in any case. 

Are you likely to try the filter floss as I suggested ?  I would be interested to see if it works. 

I don't think two filters is a bad thing. Especially if you use lily pipes.  I know that Mark E uses two filters and he gets the flow and distribution he needs without having ugly pumps in the tank.  Gives you a lot of filtration options too.


----------



## Ady34 (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Sorry Iain, LOL. Dunno why I call you Mike sometimes.


Probably the same reason youve started calling me Andy???    



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I know what you mean about the reviews about the G6. To be honest it, its "just another filter" as far as I am concerned. It does the job but the reviews it seems to get makes you wonder !! Now I have my Eheim Pro3E I would never go back, thats for sure. To be fair though, I don't know that we can fairly slate it because of the way it handles CO2 bubbles, since it is not designed to do that in any case.



I think my G6 is awesome, love it, and thats purely based on the ease of maintanence which for me is the most important thing. On my other externals i used to hate taking off 'quick release' pipework and opening up the full filter to clean foams.... to the point that sometimes i didnt bother  ..... but now its so easy its not a chore at all, plus cleaning the bio section only means a full strip down every 4-6 months   
Iain, with regards the 'burping', i used to get a little when i ran intank diffuser, but i could only attribute it to larger c02 bubbles being directly sucked into the filter from the water column. Now i have an inline on the filter outlet and dont seem to suffer the burping at all any more  :? So who knows what causes it?
And onto the algae, again you seem to be doing everything right but again who knows whats causing that? Its enough to drive you   .
Looking forward to pics and vid though   
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I don't know that we can fairly slate it because of the way it handles CO2 bubbles, since it is not designed to do that in any case.
> 
> Are you likely to try the filter floss as I suggested ?  I would be interested to see if it works.
> 
> I don't think two filters is a bad thing. Especially if you use lily pipes.  I know that Mark E uses two filters and he gets the flow and distribution he needs without having ugly pumps in the tank.  Gives you a lot of filtration options too.



Im not slating it, i think that a filter that tells you whats going on is a good thing and all filters should follow suit with some of those features.  Interested if others have experience with the G6 holding onto co2..??

Plan having a day of sorting things tomorrow so will see what happens with the flow side of things.

Absolutely agree, most successful scapes use one or two filters with great effect, i would however suggest that when people are starting out investing money in adjustable flow pumps (with lilys if you like) *might * be a wise investment as the more flexibility the better until you understand how it all works??   or maybe im over thinking it!

Agreed ady, i do believe the G6 design wise for maintenance is fantastic and gets rid of a chore!  Dont get me wrong, i think its a good filter just dont understand why im having the co2 issues with it!?!



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> And onto the algae, again you seem to be doing everything right but again who knows whats causing that? Its enough to drive you   .
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



Isnt it just!  Stupid lower forms of life confusing us


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> ....
> 
> I think my G6 is awesome, love it, and thats purely based on the ease of maintanence which for me is the most important thing. On my other externals i used to hate taking off 'quick release' pipework and opening up the full filter to clean foams.... to the point that sometimes i didnt bother  ..... but now its so easy its not a chore at all, plus cleaning the bio section only means a full strip down every 4-6 months
> Iain, with regards the 'burping', i used to get a little when i ran intank diffuser, but i could only attribute it to larger c02 bubbles being directly sucked into the filter from the water column. Now i have an inline on the filter outlet and dont seem to suffer the burping at all any more  :? So who knows what causes it?
> ...



I dont think the G6 is any easier on maintenance.  In fact I found it harder than my current electronic Eheim.  The pipes on the G6, along with the hose adaptor and impellor, got very dirty very quickly for me and I found myself having to clean them every fortnight.  I found priming to be far more difficult than the Eheim too. The flow dropped quite quickly as a result.  The pump on the G6, for all its 2450lph of total rating, can only push out 1000lph and this drops pretty quickly if everything is not kept clean.  The prefilter cartridges get dirty quite quickly too, especially with a new or problematic tank where there is a fair bit of plant melt.  You still have to change carbon at the same regularity as other filters, and the bio section in mine needed cleaning far quicker than I expected.  I suppose each to their own, and everyone's experience will be different, but to be honest I wish I had gone for the Eheim in the first place.  For me it is very over rated for the £350 price tag compared to what else is available.

Prefilter maintenance on my Eheim is just as easy;

Move the flow lever across and click the button... pipes released. Lift the head off and remove prefilter tray.  Swap floss if used and swap prefilter foam or clean and replace.  Takes about a minute.  Thats not too much effort for me.  Cleaning the bio section can potentially only be required every 6 months also due to the filter's ability to monitor flow and adjust it accordingly.  If asked to score the two filters I would give the G6 a 6 out of 10 to match its number and the Eheim a 9.


----------



## Ady34 (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

I think the key phrase here was each to their own, and i in all honesty am basing my judgement on past experiences with much cheaper models (fluval 204/205) and have never used eheim. I understand eheim are a well renowned name with great filters but the G6 has been great for me.


			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I found priming to be far more difficult than the Eheim too. The flow dropped quite quickly as a result.  The pump on the G6, for all its 2450lph of total rating, can only push out 1000lph and this drops pretty quickly if everything is not kept clean.  The prefilter cartridges get dirty quite quickly too, especially with a new or problematic tank where there is a fair bit of plant melt.  You still have to change carbon at the same regularity as other filters, and the bio section in mine needed cleaning far quicker than I expected.  I suppose each to their own, and everyone's experience will be different, but to be honest I wish I had gone for the Eheim in the first place.  For me it is very over rated for the £350 price tag compared to what else is available.


I must also admit priming is never an issue for me with a drilled base tank, but as for the pre filters getting dirty quite quickly, that to me just shows how effective they are, and i would much prefer to get the dirt out. Obviously chemical filtration is going to be the same, but again this comes in the quick to remove cartridges. I fully appreciate your preference for the eheim but i think the G6 is great. I never get a substantial drop off in performance and clean the pre filter weekly. £350 is very steep for any filter, but now i have it i dont think about the money anymore as i love how easy it is to use.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> I think the key phrase here was each to their own, and i in all honesty am basing my judgement on past experiences with much cheaper models (fluval 204/205) and have never used eheim. I understand eheim are a well renowned name with great filters but the G6 has been great for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely right Ady    And with a drilled base priming would be sweet for you.  The chem cartridge is only effective as a quick swap if its a suitable size.  I wanted to run Purigen and Carbon and there was not enough space for me so the Purigen had to go in the bio section anyway.  I would love you to try an Eheim Pro3e to see which you preferred.  I will say though, the G6 sure looks the part in your setup, which almost commands a sexy looking filter.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

oh yeah, G6 wins the style prize  8)


----------



## Antipofish (6 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> oh yeah, G6 wins the style prize  8)



I'm tempted to say all style and no substance    but that would be taking it too far, hehehe. Anyway have you formulated a Plan B ?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (7 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

Not yet, ill sort the pics and vid tonight and with a little luck clive will chime in with some of his witchcraft


----------



## Antipofish (7 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Not yet, ill sort the pics and vid tonight and with a little luck clive will chime in with some of his witchcraft



Send him a PM with a link to your thread.  He may not have read it     He is one of the most helpful and knowledgeable guys around so I am sure he would not mind   Good luck sorting it though.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (7 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

due a trim on my rotala rotundifolia tomorrow and i wasnt getting the bushiness i hoped for so did some searching  best way to do trim it down and found this... i found it useful so thought i would post..

*removed* see below

little surprised by the hack and slash method.  On the up side i will have plenty to sell on in the next few days.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (7 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

haha thats the wrong video... ill try again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npCITFjH ... r_embedded


Housemate just rung me and he wants me to go to town with him this arvo to get a 100mm macro and a UWA lens for his 600D, which will fit my 550D nicely.
Gotta love housemates with deep pockets and no will power


----------



## justjason88 (7 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*

great vid thanks easer


----------



## Iain Sutherland (8 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				justjason88 said:
			
		

> great vid thanks easer



glad you liked it mate.


So i had a big old maintenance day today and took some very quick pics and a movie to show my issues.  

Heres the tank today after trimming the stems.





BBA in carpet all across the front half of the tank




Also on bolbitus at the front




Crappy no edit vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FJODFeu ... e=youtu.be

Also had a play around with my housemates macro lens on the marine, i did try the wide angle but couldnt make it work for me.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  Light level opinion??*

ok so i have been scratching my bald head about the way forward and while i wait until i get the spray bar sorted later this week another thought occurred to me.
Ever since i set this tank up i was always have assumed (there is that stupid assumption again!) that the lighting was relatively low as the unit is 60cm above the water so 1m above substrate.
So what are your opinions... 150w metal halide and 2 x 24w T5 for 6 hours a day at 60cm above waterline in a cheap unit with effectively no reflectors, do you think the light could be a lot higher than i presumed??
Really wish i could afford a par metre!! If anyone has one and would like to rent it for a weekend then i would bite your arm off...


----------



## foxfish (10 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  light levels??*

Air will not diffuse the light like water so yes, I would say you definitely have too much light for the amount of gas you are getting to the plants.


----------



## greenink (10 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  light levels??*

I recently cut down from 4 T5s at 65cm above substrate to 2 T5s, put in 25 new amanos and dosed flourish excel. And now I have a tank with healthy plants, spreading HC and no algae to be seen.


----------



## Antipofish (10 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  light levels??*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> I recently cut down from 4 T5s at 65cm above substrate to 2 T5s, put in 25 new amanos and dosed flourish excel. And now I have a tank with healthy plants, spreading HC and no algae to be seen.



Mike, when you say "new amanos" was that in addition to some already there?  In which case how many do you have (as far as you can estimate) in total ?  Do you have any other cleanup crew ? Ramshorns ? Other shrimp ? Ottos ?   Cheers.


----------



## greenink (11 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite.  light levels??*

About 35 amanos, 10 ottos, 15 ramshorns and 10 very wary cherry shrimp babies.

My theory is that with no hardscaping you need much less than that. It's keeping the hardscaping clean that's difficult.

Still much less than amano himself. He has hundreds of shrimp and ottos looking at his YouTube tanks.


----------



## Antipofish (11 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  light levels??*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> About 35 amanos, 10 ottos, 15 ramshorns and 10 very wary cherry shrimp babies.
> 
> My theory is that with no hardscaping you need much less than that. It's keeping the hardscaping clean that's difficult.
> 
> Still much less than amano himself. He has hundreds of shrimp and ottos looking at his YouTube tanks.



Sounds like a good crew to me


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

So i finally got the spraybars finished, i made two individual ones and joined them in the middle with perspex rod.  I made them so the tube down the back of the tank goes all the way to the holes in the cupboard so that i can use eheim tubing in the cupboard as i prefer it to the softer clear variety.  I can pull the join in the middle apart for easy cleaning.

One side has a tighter bend than the other so might make another as it is neater.  Fluval G6 only shows a 5% drop in flow which im happy with.

Cant say if it is an improvement yet but the tennelus has had a growth spurt so i am feeling positive.


----------



## Alastair (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet spray bars mate very nice


----------



## Ady34 (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

+ 1 for the above. Look very good Iain, hopefully will help with the niggling issues too!


----------



## Gary Nelson (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

Very nice, they look great!


----------



## Antipofish (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

You've made a bloody good job of that.  Really nice


----------



## greenink (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

yup, impressive. what did you use to bend the pipes?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> + 1 for the above. Look very good Iain, hopefully will help with the niggling issues too!


Heres hoping mate, im running out of ideas if this doesnt help.


			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet spray bars mate very nice


Cheers alistair, 13mm ones will look good in the puddle   


			
				Gary Nelson said:
			
		

> Very nice, they look great!


Thanks Gary


			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> You've made a bloody good job of that.  Really nice


I wont show you the first 6 sets   

All it takes is a bit of love, burnt fingers and a bunch of crappy ones!
 Now just to test some inlet styles and blown lily shape ones...  I find bending them strangely therapeutic


----------



## Iain Sutherland (16 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*



			
				mikeappleby said:
			
		

> yup, impressive. what did you use to bend the pipes?



Love and patience mate  

They were done the same way as the video in your thread mate. Very slowly with a heat gun.


----------



## Tim Harrison (24 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  So what is plan B??*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> haha thats the wrong video... ill try again...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npCITFjH ... r_embedded
> 
> ...



Cool music, what's it called and who is it by?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (24 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  spraybars!!*

No idea troi, found the vid on you tube...


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.  if its not one thing its another...*

Geez, just as i start to get good growth, seem to have conquered the algae and the plant side of things is looking good another issue pops up.
In fact i think its a problem that has been there all along    but would like to run it by you guys.

So i lost a harlequin a few days ago, found an amano having a snack on it and didnt really think too much of it, then yesterday i found another one dead.  I figured something must be wrong so tested my water for the first time and came back zero ammonia and nitrites.  Then i started to think back, individual incidents i naively thought to be nothing add up to something more sinister.  Goes a little like this...
5 CRS added - started to see them less and less and now never.
2 of 5 chocolates jumped out.
Never manage to get a full count of CPD's any more.
Only really see one chocolate at a time and today noticed one of the remaining 3 doesnt look happy at all.
Now 2 harlequins dead.

So having put all this together im a little embarrassed to say i didnt get more concerned earlier.  It seems that all of the losses have come about since i started to try and condition my water for the chocolates with RO.
No fish are ever at the surface and look to struggle from CO2/O2 or visable signs of disease so dont think that is the issue.

My current thinking of a possible cause is that maybe im havent changed the filter cartridges in the RO unit often enough and not all the chlorine is being removed???? while i still use prime at WC i dont for the top up unit which goes through around 30ltrs a week.
Do you think this is likely??? I make about 300ltrs a week and have been using the unit for 7 weeks, as i dont have a TDS pen yet i take some to Cambridge Coral Tech every few weeks and 2 weeks ago was at 15TDS.  Does chlorine show up in TDS measurements?

Ultimately i never felt 100% comfortable trying to change my water conditions and at the moment i think my best option, as sad as it is, is listen to people with more experience and the old adage of matching fish to the water rather than trying to mess with the water conditions..  so the remaining chocolates might have have to go if i go back to just tap  

I would love some ideas of other possible causes as i feel i have reasonable evidence to discount the obvious but appreciate my experience in reality is pathetic compared to a lot of you guys.

I feel really bad as a fish keeper that i was focusing so much on the plants, co2, algae etc that i didnt pay enough attention to what was going on with my fauna with fatal consequences  

Any advise very gratefully received.


----------



## Antipofish (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Iain, did you mean top up is 30lt per week or per day ?  At 30lt per week I would say its not a chlorine issue given the volume of your overall tank.  I have read many instances where people do 10% water changes or greater, without any effect.  Just what I have read but no doubt there is someone who knows more so don't take this response as gospel.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (27 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

15 TDS thats ultra soft. Crystal Reds like the TDS between 100-180 ish.

If the water is too soft it will cause molting issues

Whats your GH & KH?
Couldnt the likely cause be unstable Ph swings? 

Regards


----------



## Antipofish (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> 15 TDS thats ultra soft. Crystal Reds like the TDS between 100-180 ish.
> 
> If the water is too soft it will cause molting issues
> 
> ...



Thats more likely with such low tds I would have thought Nathaniel.  Good call.
I dont do RO water, but as a question to benefit Iain and others, when doing RO water, are you not supposed to add some kind of buffer back in  ?  I know I had to with marines, but that was because the water had to be a pretty high pH (around the 8.2/8.4 mark was what I aimed for).  Surely to SOME extend that is still necessary ?


----------



## darren636 (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

i wonder how many fish inhabit water with such a low tds? I would say you need to raise it a bit.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (27 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *



			
				darren636 said:
			
		

> i wonder how many fish inhabit water with such a low tds? I would say you need to raise it a bit.




Cant imagine that there would be many? Given that a dissolved mineral content would be present in nearly every natural lake, river  or stream.

Only thing I can think of is water running through pure volcanic rock? But surely this would be inhabitable due to nasties such as sulphur?

Check it out darren, could be interesting


----------



## darren636 (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

surely that low tds will impact on the osmosis  regulation  of  the  fish.  i  was  out  in  the  sun  all  day,  so  might  be  talking  gibberish...


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (27 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Take a look here;

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleOsmosis.htm

Might give a little insight into osmoregulation. 

Basically what darren said is right, the fish are suffering due to low TDS content of water. The osmotic pressure is too high for the fish as the water is too soft. 

"Angelfish and discus are examples of fish that have very strong and efficient osmoregulatory systems. They do well naturally in their native environment where the osmotic pressure is great due to the extremely soft water of the Amazon river basin. However, when under stress, these systems can be impaired. This is why it is advised to add some salt to the water of fish under stress. The salt reduces the osmotic pressure. The stress could come from transportation, diseases, trauma or a number of other problems. Keep in mind that salt is only good for short term success. The stress must be removed to prevent further problems. "

"A sudden change in osmotic pressure can put great stress on the osmoregulatory system of a fish. This is of great concern when shipping fish to locations with water different from what they're adapted to.  The fish arrives under great stress and is not able to regulate any osmotic pressure differences easily. This is one reason why acclimation should be slow. It also explains why treating diseased fish must be done carefully. When putting them in a salt bath, the concentration of salt should be increased gradually."

I would start cutting in some pure tap water mate, maybe 5-10% a day till you get up to a decent TDS level. Maybe about 120-150? 

Regards


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (27 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Take a look here;

http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleOsmosis.htm

Might give a little insight into osmoregulation. 

Basically what darren said is right, the fish are suffering due to low TDS content of water. The osmotic pressure is too high for the fish as the water is too soft. 

"Angelfish and discus are examples of fish that have very strong and efficient osmoregulatory systems. They do well naturally in their native environment where the osmotic pressure is great due to the extremely soft water of the Amazon river basin. However, when under stress, these systems can be impaired. This is why it is advised to add some salt to the water of fish under stress. The salt reduces the osmotic pressure. The stress could come from transportation, diseases, trauma or a number of other problems. Keep in mind that salt is only good for short term success. The stress must be removed to prevent further problems. "

"A sudden change in osmotic pressure can put great stress on the osmoregulatory system of a fish. This is of great concern when shipping fish to locations with water different from what they're adapted to.  The fish arrives under great stress and is not able to regulate any osmotic pressure differences easily. This is one reason why acclimation should be slow. It also explains why treating diseased fish must be done carefully. When putting them in a salt bath, the concentration of salt should be increased gradually."

I would start cutting in some pure tap water mate, maybe 5-10% a day till you get up to a decent TDS level. Maybe about 120-150? 

Regards


----------



## dw1305 (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Hi all,


> Cant imagine that there would be many? Given that a dissolved mineral content would be present in nearly every natural lake, river or stream.


 Actually a lot of the water from the tropical rain-forest areas is lower than this in TDS. The reason for this is that the rain-fall is very high, and it washes any soluble salts out of the upper layers of the soil leaving only insoluble aluminium and iron  compounds behind. These are the infertile lateritic soils you find through-out the tropics, any soluble compounds in the water tend to be humic acids and tannins from fallen leaves, these add H+ ions and sequester any other cations and depress the pH. Have a look a this travelogue <http://apisto.sites.no/page.aspx?pageid=120> for some water quality parameters (all the site is well worth a look as well).

The you need to "add salt" for soft water fish is also wrong and is based upon a failure of understanding of  osmotic regulation, the addition of totally unnatural ions is likely to cause, rather than, alleviate stress. Have a look a this one if you want some actual figures, it also highlights the importance of natural humic substances ("black water") <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12695983>

For various reasons you can ignore pH swings, these are inevitable in water with low dKH, and don't effect the fish. Have a look here for a bit more of an explanation. <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=20886&p=213484&hilit=buffering#p213484>. Very soft water is more difficult to manage than highly carbonate buffered water, but it isn't impossible. One thing is that biological filtration is reduced, so you need to keep on top of stocking rates and water changes.

Personally I would add some tannins to the water with Indian Almond leaves or Alder cones, and then as was suggested add a bit more hard tap water to buffer the water up (I would only go to about 50ppm TDS).

cheers Darrel


----------



## darren636 (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

great info again darrel


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (27 May 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Yes darrel, that is a great deal of knowledge. I will try read up on all that myself. Thanks for info.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Iain, did you mean top up is 30lt per week or per day ?  At 30lt per week I would say its not a chlorine issue given the volume of your overall tank.  I have read many instances where people do 10% water changes or greater, without any effect.  Just what I have read but no doubt there is someone who knows more so don't take this response as gospel.



cheers chris, now you mention it think i might have read something similar, somewhere..?



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> 15 TDS thats ultra soft. Crystal Reds like the TDS between 100-180 ish.
> If the water is too soft it will cause molting issues
> Whats your GH & KH?
> Couldnt the likely cause be unstable Ph swings?
> Regards



I need to order a new GH/KH test kit as the one i had gave 2 different reading from the same water but it was old.



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Thats more likely with such low tds I would have thought Nathaniel.  Good call.
> I dont do RO water, but as a question to benefit Iain and others, when doing RO water, are you not supposed to add some kind of buffer back in  ?  I know I had to with marines, but that was because the water had to be a pretty high pH (around the 8.2/8.4 mark was what I aimed for).  Surely to SOME extend that is still necessary ?



Yes mate, you need to remineralize the water either with additives or cutting it with tap.



			
				dw1305 said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> 
> > Cant imagine that there would be many? Given that a dissolved mineral content would be present in nearly every natural lake, river or stream.
> ...



Thanks Darrel, very informative.  I do cut the RO 60-40 with cambridge tap water which is very hard.  I did have a bunch of almond leaves on a clip in there when i added the CRS, i'll put some more in today as i believe they have anti bacterial qualities also which might help cover some bases.

I guess the RO might not be the issue as i still use it on my marine for top up and mixing salt water without effect.
So if i rule out the RO as a cause for now what else should i consider?
No sign of disease
No visible co2/o2 stress
WC every 5/6 days ish
Weekly mechanical and monthly biological filter maintenance.
0 reading on tests, for what they are worth.

The only other change i have made was to up the liquid carbon i was adding from 15ml to 20ml a day, dropped it back to 15ml when i found the first harlequin.
I have also raised the spray bars slightly to get a little more agitation which seems to have worked well as DC was blue this morning for the first time ever.

Thanks again folks 

PS, has anyone ever kept Puntius rhomboocellatus - aka snakeskin barbs??  Wondering if they are relatively  'shrimp safe'


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. a change of fortune??*

well im chuffed to bits, while i am still dont know why ive lost the harlequins recently i finally found my 3rd chocolate gourami and it is mouth brooding!!    
desperately tried to get a picture but that is simply impossible.
seems that unless i have a breeder tank then its unlikely to see any fry     Maybe it is time to get rid of the nano marine and build the 75cm opti white ive been think about for a while.

This hobby has such highs and lows.


----------



## Antipofish (27 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Congrats on the choco Iain thats fantastic news   If you have success raising them, and there are enough, I would be happy to buy some from you when they are big enough, though thats a long way off.

Puntius Rhomboocelatus are beautiful fish.  I have no idea how shrimpsafe they are.  I do hear they are a little delicate but doubt any more so than chocolate gouramies.  They appreciate lots of cover and a well established aquarium


----------



## faizal (28 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

Hi Iain,...I am sorry to hear about your harlequins mate. Don't know really why these things happen. I had a similar experience before too when I was just having fishes in my old tank (without plants) NH4 and nitrates were next to nil . The tank was clean & kept up my routine maintanence yet had a string of harlequin deaths & fishes jumping out of my aquarium. Then all of a sudden things sort of stabled off & there were no further deaths. 

Congratulations on the future arrivals  though


----------



## tim (28 May 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. New problem.. fish deaths *

shame about unexplained deaths mate big thumbs up on the chocco though   a small plus though your journal has loads of info on using ro a switch ive contemplated but probably wont make journals a good read mate


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update*

hey all, i think the deaths have stopped now, i still really dont know what was going on, i did lose 1 more harlequin which was strange as at first i thought i saw a dead one but it was swimming upside down under the crypts eagerly pursued by males then in the morning did find a dead one? Also seems the choco has either spit the babies out or has eaten them... not seen any fry which i half expected.
I have also raised the light a little more as while i seem to be winning the fight with bba it lingers a bit but less each day.  
Really tried to be regimented with dosing and maintenance, clean the tank about every 5 days or so, standard EI, 15ml aqua carbon a day applied directly to any BBA when seen.  
So im quite chuffed it is going the right way now, my stocking is very light at the moment following the jumpers and deaths so have 15 Vietnamese minnow arriving this week for a further week settling at MA to replace the cardinals then 10 more chocolates in a couple of weeks with 4 week settle.




i now see a bit of a scaping error with this tank as it really looks flat as FTS, always learning...



got the fissedens attached.




re edited old pic just because chocolates rock!


----------



## Ady34 (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Hi Iain,
sorry about the unexplained fish losses mate, hopefully there finished now and ill look forward to the new additions.
Really pleased your winning the algae battle with your hard work and persistence   
The pipework you made is really unintrusive and you must be well pleased with that   
As for it looking flat on the FTS, i think it looks awesome, but i can see why your being a little critical. I think this would be negated if you trimmed the central rear stems into a dome shape above the ferns. This would give an island shape, but i do love the look and the layers of plants you have created. The ferns and crypts have filled in really naturally and the fissidens and mosses are looking great on the wood. As the bba in the foreground is reducing the tenellus are really filling in and thats looking good too. The first photo really gives a sense of the depth of this tank and you have done really well to battle the issues you have faced.
Noticing more little touches i like about this now such as the rock in the left foreground which is being softened by the carpet and the illusion of depth (not that it needs it) created by the different sized left and right branches reaching to the substrate.
Ill take inspiration and knowledge from this island scape which will stand me in good stead if i ever plan one myself   .
Great tank.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Antipofish (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Iain this is really looking great and I am glad you are over the glitch with the fish.  That choco looks awesome. !


----------



## minnnt (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

An amazing tank with great inhabitants. 

Top photography aswell!!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hi Iain,
> sorry about the unexplained fish losses mate, hopefully there finished now and ill look forward to the new additions.
> Really pleased your winning the algae battle with your hard work and persistence
> The pipework you made is really unintrusive and you must be well pleased with that
> ...



thanks ady, i have enjoyed the journey so far, really feel like ive learnt a lot.  The pipes have really made a positive impression on the over all health and dont look too bad for a first attempt.  The intake guards are a little blot on the scape but better than losing cherries everyday.  Hopefully will be able to remove them once the shrimp mature and the numbers thicken up.

Shaping the stems is something that again i dont really have any experience with if you have any advice? the last trim was the first step in trying to get some shape on them however i dont think i cut them short enough.  Will be doing another trim tomorrow so will see how it goes...   getting my hands wet and trying different things out is worth a thousands words, even with things i thought i understood from text   Just little things like removing any bolbitus leaves that grow in the wrong direction or are longer goes a long way to get the plant to look tidy.
I still have more rocks to go in the carpet which are currently growing fissidens on in a propagator, i took them out as they were effecting flow across the tennelus and addded to my woes.  Will get them back in eventually  :? 



			
				minnnt said:
			
		

> An amazing tank with great inhabitants.
> 
> Top photography aswell!!


thanks minnnt, will be glad when there is some more activity.
Any reasonable pictures are just luck   Learning to use the dslr is an equally as confusing road     



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> Iain this is really looking great and I am glad you are over the glitch with the fish.  That choco looks awesome. !


cheers


----------



## minnnt (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

At least you have a DSLR,  lol.


----------



## ghostsword (5 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				minnnt said:
			
		

> An amazing tank with great inhabitants.
> 
> Top photography aswell!!



Looks awesome! Magazine quality!!  very impressed. 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## awtong (5 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

I love the angled shot showing the stems at the back.  Cracking photo of the choco what a lovely looking little fish.

Andy


----------



## Alastair (5 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Tanks looking fantastic mate you must be really impressed with it now. Big pat on the back mate.  

And great photos 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## faizal (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

I love the first angled shot too. It's looking amazing mate . Congratulations.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (6 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Hey Iain,

Just stopped by to say that this looks absolutely fantastic. Im liking the attention to detail with the fissidens, and I too dont think it looks flat. 

I stumbled across your pipework build a while ago i think, and I too have to say it looks great. 

Was your light unit stand a home build too? Wondering if to make an arch over a stand when I make it too for my Grobeam to hang. 

Im also going to be scaping a 60x40x40 within the next few weeks, and if its anywhere near this standard I would be over the moon, good job.

Regards


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				minnnt said:
			
		

> At least you have a DSLR,  lol.


 


			
				ghostsword said:
			
		

> Looks awesome! Magazine quality!!  very impressed.


bloody hell, i wish.  Thanks though mate.



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> I love the angled shot showing the stems at the back.  Cracking photo of the choco what a lovely looking little fish.
> 
> Andy



Cheers andy, the angled view is the one i get from my sofa.  I must take some photos next time of the sides.
I wont lie, im totally besotted with chocolates at the moment, just need more of them so they dont hide so much.



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Tanks looking fantastic mate you must be really impressed with it now. Big pat on the back mate.
> And great photos


Cheers alistair, would be a mess if you hadnt saved my co2 ass.  Im just happy to be on the right road now, no doubt there will be more 'challenges' in the coming months... 



			
				faizal said:
			
		

> I love the first angled shot too. It's looking amazing mate . Congratulations.


thanks faizel.



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> Hey Iain,
> 
> Just stopped by to say that this looks absolutely fantastic. Im liking the attention to detail with the fissidens, and I too dont think it looks flat.
> I stumbled across your pipework build a while ago i think, and I too have to say it looks great.
> ...



Hey Nath, it still has a lot of growing to do and detail to add back in, still things im not entirely happy with and plenty of things i have learnt for next time.
The light arm was from NaturalAquario, was only about £60 if i remember....  If i wanted to spend more money i would have a custom one build just because with a tank of this width it would be better to not have the bracket in the way down the sides.  I did try a home made but it wouldnt hold the weight of the halide. However trying to restrain my self from spend more money on tanks at the moment.

Thanks a lot though guys, your all too kind...  
Now time to trim the stems and try to get some shape to them.
Anyone got any pointers they'd like to share on the best way to do this?


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (6 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

I will have a look at that site, i like the look of it. I think it has a sleek look to it.

Was thinking of getting some brushed metal and constructing my own. Will let you know how I get on ha!

Regards,


----------



## mvasingh (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Hi
How did you overcome the BBA on the carpet issue?
Mike


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				Whitey89 said:
			
		

> I will have a look at that site, i like the look of it. I think it has a sleek look to it.
> 
> Was thinking of getting some brushed metal and constructing my own. Will let you know how I get on ha!
> 
> Regards,



its a smart unit mate and fantastic value, comes from Portugal so takes a good few weeks.  In fact i like the look of most of their products and more so the prices   



			
				mvasingh said:
			
		

> Hi
> How did you overcome the BBA on the carpet issue?
> Mike



It was a combination of things mate..
First off was swopping my flow round from lilys working against each other to the long spraybars firing from back to front.  Once i did this it seemed to stop it spreading and dissipated some.
Then did a heavy trim back to substrate to remove as much as possible and completely removed the worst effected plants.
I then upped my aqua carbon dosing from 10ml to 20ml a day which was applied directly to any other patches of BBA i spotted.  This much liquid carbon seemed to make my shrimp and fish jumpy and shy so i raised the light 10cm and cut an hour off the period so i could reduce liquid carbon dosing back to 15ml without going backwards.

It is still a little present but gets better by the day as plant growth improves. It has taken 3 weeks of being vigilant but like to think it has been worth it and is now another algae i wont panic at seeing.


----------



## tim (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

awsome tank cracking journal love island scapes and this one is excellent


----------



## Alastair (6 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Definitely agree on the obsession with the chocco's too mate. Their behaviour and how graceful they swim is like no other. 
Explains my addiction to them too 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Definitely agree on the obsession with the chocco's too mate. Their behaviour and how graceful they swim is like no other.
> Explains my addiction to them too



They are very endearing mate, have been assured that now is the season for MA to get hold of them as well.
Do you have yours in now?
Popped out and got some more harlequins today


----------



## Iain Sutherland (13 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Chocolates have landed!!  Went to MA today following a phone call to saying my chocolate gourami had arrived  unfortunately they are very small, maybe 1cm  need to leave it 2 weeks before I can collect though. I think my others will appreciate the company. 

Laugh of the day- MA manager to discus owner whose plants are dying- "no need for ferts for at least 6 months in a new tank"   
I had a chat with the discus guy after about chocolates, so offered up some helpful advise.


----------



## Antipofish (13 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Hi Iain pity about the size but I am sure you will feed them up and they will grow on nicely   I saw some locally for £4.99 each or £8 for two.  Is that a good comparison to your MA prices ?  these were a good couple of cms though.  Im thinking of getting some at the weekend.  What range is your pH and do you know what your kH and gH are too ?


----------



## awtong (18 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

Have you picked these up yet Iain?  Are you getting them from MA Cambridge?  I noticed at the weekend they had some in and they were looking lovely.  They also had some nice Licorice and Sparkling gourami in as well.

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (20 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Have you picked these up yet Iain?  Are you getting them from MA Cambridge?  I noticed at the weekend they had some in and they were looking lovely.  They also had some nice Licorice and Sparkling gourami in as well.
> 
> Andy



yes mate, hands off   10 are mine, little smaller than i would have liked but beggars cant be choosers.  Ive been trying to haggle a deal on the licorice for weeks now as he only has 4 that have been there months in need of a good home, but he wont budge.

If he doesnt have the vietnamese minnow's ive asked for in by the end of next week i will be having 10 sparkling of him instead, as they are looking really healthy.. again been there over a month now as he said no one wants them???
MA prices do make your eyes water though


----------



## awtong (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*

[/quote] yes mate, hands off   10 are mine, little smaller than i would have liked but beggars cant be choosers.  Ive been trying to haggle a deal on the licorice for weeks now as he only has 4 that have been there months in need of a good home, but he wont budge.

If he doesnt have the vietnamese minnow's ive asked for in by the end of next week i will be having 10 sparkling of him instead, as they are looking really healthy.. again been there over a month now as he said no one wants them???
MA prices do make your eyes water though  [/quote]

Don't worry after adding another 8 congo's I have no room left and they would be to boisterous    also I don't have the right parameters and I am not going RO at the moment so they are safe from me   .  They may be small but are looking like little beauties.  I am surprised about the other types not selling as they looked lovely.  Maybe people don't know enough about them?

I think the prices are a little more than some but the stock is of a high quality and does really for me so I am usually happy with my purchases from them.

I want to see pics once you have them in and settled   

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> I think the prices are a little more than some but the stock is of a high quality and does really for me so I am usually happy with my purchases from them.
> 
> I want to see pics once you have them in and settled
> Andy



hey, i have to agree i have always been happy with their fish, think they do try it on a little from time to time with higher prices stuck over the proper price when fish first come in then go in a couple of days later they have peeled it off  :silent: 

just you try and stop me posting pics


----------



## Ady34 (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. update.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> think they do try it on a little from time to time with higher prices


My local MA had some choccos in the other week, £3.50 each which i thought was a good price, but looked like they needed fattening up a bit.
However, £12 each for dwarf chain loach    I know you dont see them too often anymore but wow, ive recently seen them elsewhere for £6 each.
Looking forward to seeing the new ones mate, oh, and turn that light down again....dont want more bba   
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

Light down, co2 up again   

Wow, those chocos are cheap mate. £7.50 a pop at MA, deal of 10 for £60 which still hurts but then I'm a tight fisted git


----------



## Ady34 (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Wow, those chocos are cheap mate. £7.50 a pop at MA, deal of 10 for £60 which still hurts but then I'm a tight fisted git


Price of inflation from North to South


----------



## awtong (21 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Alastair (21 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite.*

MA. Are expensive for chocco's, the one local to me is doing them for 7 quid a pop too. I get them for 3.95 however the ones they are selling are the rare crossband chocolate gourami ( .sphaerichthys selatanensis)  Bloody nice too. Rarely come across them 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (23 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??*

wish i could get them for £3.95 al   Crossbands are very nice, never seen them down south though, bloody northern monkeys having 'em all away!   

So, touch wood i have rectified my resurgence of BBA after getting excited about it going well and extending the lighting period     Lost count how many times ive caused problems doing stupid things like this   

Anyhoo...

My next challenge is definately trying get my stems into a more bushy dome sort of appearance like in this video i posted a while back 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npCITFjH ... r_embedded

The video shows how to maintain the stems but how do i get them to this stage to start with??  

My thinking at the moment is using short stems to start with then trim back, each stem then growing 2 new shoots, then trim back to about 1cm above the last shoots so one stem becomes 4 .... continue this for lots of trims then eventually they bush out simply due to mass????

I really have no idea so,anyone with lots of stem experience and how to sculpt them please could i have some pointers as long vertical stems defeats the object of the whole scape. 

you rock


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside (23 Jun 2012)

*90x75x45 optiwhite.*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




2 for £12 at Stockton MA  
I only found Stockon MA yesterday! I wasn't amazed by the aquatics section, buts its another reasonably close LFS. 

Wish they stocked ADA though. And a more impressive selection of Hardscape materials.

Have you seen the 5 foot tank as you walk in Ady? Just been planted up, looks great.


----------



## tim (23 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??? anyone??*

think your right iain every trim produces new shoots so trim untill you get the mass you want then must be like being ocd about your hedge trim off any bits that pop up your not happy with i would be interested to know if you can trim indefinately to maintain shape or if you eventually have to uproot and replant tops to start again


----------



## Iain Sutherland (25 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??? anyone??*

No one ever tried sculpting stems? 

Anyway, i have had to make a tough decision.  As much as it pains me to say it i have decided to forego the chocolate gourami in this tank, the ones i have dont seem to thrive which my guess is due to lack of numbers, higher flow than they like and no surface cover.  This really saddens me but at the same time id rather have fish that will be happy than unhappy ones just for my pleasure.  Chocolates will go in the next low tech scape 

So now i need ideas for a replacement as ive been so focused on chocos that i cant imagine anything else in it!  

I had considered dwarf neon rainbows but think i will find them all on the floor so guess they are out.... any relatively shrimp safe suggestions people?


----------



## Antipofish (25 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??? anyone??*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> As much as it pains me to say it i have decided to forego the chocolate gourami in this tank, the ones i have dont seem to thrive which my guess is due to lack of numbers, higher flow than they like and no surface cover.  This really saddens me but at the same time id rather have fish that will be happy than unhappy ones just for my pleasure.
> 
> So now i need ideas for a replacement as ive been so focused on chocos that i cant imagine anything else in it!
> 
> I had considered dwarf neon rainbows but think i will find them all on the floor so guess they are out.... any relatively shrimp safe suggestions people?



I have dwarf neons and never had them jump (tanks covered though, lol so all they would get is a headache, although I do lift the lid when its hot).  What about Celebes rainbowish ?

Sorry about the chocco decision.  I know how you feel because I really wanted them too, and a local shop has them at 2 for £8.  I was going to get about 8 of them.  But then on top of my water hardness being marginal for them, I also read they like low flow and surface cover and thats the opposite of what they would get   

How about a species tank !?


----------



## Ady34 (25 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??? anyone??*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> No one ever tried sculpting stems?


Hi Iain,
im no expert, but i recently trimmed my ludwigia arcuata and a tip from me, as i think you have mentioned before, is to cut low, lower than your intended level to get thicker lush growth where they are to be seen. I trimmed too high and am getting nice new growth, but too high in the water column. If your looking to create a 'halo' above your island around the ferns etc id say trim hard to about 2-3" below these midground/filling plants and that way youll get a nice thick bush above these midwater plants. Instead of trimming in a straight line, just contour the cut in an ark (if this is what you are looking for) which follows the line you want the final look to be. As you know each stem will create 2 new shoots so you should get twice as much plant mass (thicker) and in the desired shape......you have to be brave to see the longer term benefits! Its painful cutting good plants, but now you have a handle on your c02 etc they will grow back pretty quickly for you.

Shame about the chocolates mate, but i agree with your decision that the high tech tank is not the place to get the best from them.
Get another current photo up and well suggest some suitors while getting to marvel the beauty too   
What you thinking regards water now, tap or still ro mix? This will be a factor too.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. sculpting stems??? anyone??*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> I have dwarf neons and never had them jump (tanks covered though, lol so all they would get is a headache, although I do lift the lid when its hot).  What about Celebes rainbowish ?
> How about a species tank !?



thanks for the input Chris, its a shame as dwarf neons were one of my original lines of thought for this tank before chocos then did some research... 
Celebes are really nice, i didnt know much about them but it seems they like higher PH of around 8 and dont fair well below 7.5 so that is a no go also   
I am tempted to go back to pentazona barbs as they are awesome but would like to have something different from the last tank.  I still have 16 espei raspora ..... maybe 10 cherry barbs and an interesting tetra...?  



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> youll get a nice thick bush


ooh er missus   



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Ady, think this is sound advise so thanks, whats annoying is this is what i was trying to do but didnt cut the stems low enough on the first trim so wasted the last 2 trimmings   Oh well im in no rush with this tank, plan to keep it into next year so loads of time to balls it up again   It takes about 3 weeks for the stems to hit the surface after a trim so shouldnt be too bad.  The plants seem to recover a lot quicker now, the tennelus used to take a couple of weeks before it really got going again now with the co2 and flow being better its a couple of days which is nice.

i will try and grab some snaps this arvo mate, im pretty rubbish at regular updates   

Adios


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite.*

few very quick pics, sorry if all the colours are a bit odd i had to edit them in a rush to try and neutralise the glare and reflections...
Tennelus was cut back to substrate last week, very suprised how quick it comes back each time now.






left side




right side




so went and told the guys at MA i wasnt taking the chocos, thankfully they were fine and had someone that wanted them already 
had a bit of browse while there to consider replacements and have hatch a little plan... would like to knoiw what you folks think.
Cardinals will be going and the last 2 chocos and to replace them could be...
10 x checkered barbs
5-10 x cherry barbs
and very unsure but maybe 3-5 denisonii barbs   :?   

all opinions welcome... unless they are rubbish ones     really, i need ideas here so go for it!!


----------



## Ady34 (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

The barbs will look great and suit very well, i love checkers, and cherrys are underrated but the densonii may throw the scale a little and eat shrimp but would be a nice feature fish. The espei will keep interest higher up too so should work together.
Tank looks great mate...it really is deep!
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## tim (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

have you considered puntius pentazona quite nice peaceful barb tank looks good think barbs will blend in nicely


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> The barbs will look great and suit very well, i love checkers, and cherrys are underrated but the densonii may throw the scale a little and eat shrimp but would be a nice feature fish. The espei will keep interest higher up too so should work together.
> Tank looks great mate...it really is deep!
> Cheerio,
> Ady.



cheers ady, im not sold on the denisonii either, as much as i like them... i think they look best in 4' + tanks.  Just really like feature fish and cant think of anything else   
Yeah, tank is very deep      was half the reason it took a while to figure out the flow.  I just wish the light bracket was attached to the back and reached forward so the sides are unobstructed.  Might change it one day funds allowing.



			
				tim said:
			
		

> have you considered puntius pentazona quite nice peaceful barb tank looks good think barbs will blend in nicely



I have tim, i used to have them in my old tank and loved them, really tight schoolers, you know how it is though.. its always nice to have something new   

I have also considered snakeskin barbs (Puntius rhomboocellatus) but they seem to be hard to find and no doubt expensive if i do.
Luckily MA also has some really good looking checkers at the moment, nice and dark cross banding with vibrant red fins so might have to pick them up at the weekend.  Thinking 7 males and 3 females... any opinions on this?

Not looking forward to trying to catch the cardinals though


----------



## Antipofish (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

Iain, it might be worth talking to Darren at Living Waters.  I was up there the other day and talking about getting some.  He knew my water parameters and seemed to think they would be alright in my tank (pH around 6.4).  I guess its horses for courses a lot of the time.


----------



## greenink (26 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

I thought were aggressive little blighters that ate shrimp. That's why I don't have them.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

everything ive read say they are peaceful ? if i lose a few shrimp its not the end of the world.. the shrimp arent of any high grade and am happy with just the shrimp nano.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. microsorum melt*

I do have a bit of a puzzle though.. as you can see in this cropped pic, leaves have died off on the microsorum trident just at the front over the last week??  They used to go all the way down to the stone!!  The trident leaves to the right are fine?  As always my first assumption is co2, however the crypts in front of it are waving about so i dont understand why it would be an issue...??






any ideas


----------



## awtong (27 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*

What about glass bloodfins?  Not too large, shoal quite well and have a nice flash of red on the tail?  Subtle due to the clear body which would make the tail pop against the green plants.

Or red phantoms, or black ruby barbs?

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jun 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb island.*

New fish, new name


----------



## Iain Sutherland (1 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. new plan..??*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> What about glass bloodfins?  Not too large, shoal quite well and have a nice flash of red on the tail?  Subtle due to the clear body which would make the tail pop against the green plants.
> 
> Or red phantoms, or black ruby barbs?
> 
> Andy



hey andy, as you can see i went with the barbs  however still undecided with the cardinals...?  Stay or go..??? Ive had them so long now would be a shame to get rid and they do stay in bottom/mid water which works well with the harlequins higher up. 
No rush though, happy for now.

Cherry Barbs (8M/4F) really have no fear, immediately swimming all over without a care in the world and colouring up nice now.
Checker barbs (7M/3F) are a little more shy but getting bolder by the day and again colours coming through, great watching there little skirmish's, 7 males are always testing each other. They are showing an interest in the RCS though, not too worried though.

Funny how the whole tank has come to life since adding the barbs, where the cardinals would always hide in the stems before they are now free swimming.  I also saw 2 ottos for the first time in 3 months... think everyone was lonely


----------



## awtong (1 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island*

Those checkers look great, I have not seen ones with colour like that for a long time.  A nice touch and something a bit different.

Andy


----------



## Iain Sutherland (1 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island*



			
				awtong said:
			
		

> Those checkers look great, I have not seen ones with colour like that for a long time.  A nice touch and something a bit different.
> 
> Andy



Yeah, i'm rapidly falling in love with them    notice during WC that the silver on them is quite blue, might have to try some different bulbs some time.


----------



## danmullan (1 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island*

Set-up is looking really good! Like the fish selection too, haven't really seen checkered barbs before, not even in shops. A video would be amazing   

Also, whats the main carpet plant? Is it lilaeopsis brasiliensis? Couldn't find what it was in the thread.

Cheers,
Dan


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island*

well finally figured out the movie thing....  not the best video but will do for a first attempt of editing.
Recently trimmed stems and tennelus so not the best time for a vid, will try another in a few weeks   

edit* music was replaced by you tube due to copyright on original. bit dramatic


----------



## Ady34 (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island. new video pg27*

Apparently "This video contains content from EMI, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds", so cant view it Iain.....dont smash anything up mate!!!
Shame, was looking forward to it.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island. new video pg27*

that must be the music!! seriously WTF     How come i can watch it then and see it on youtube??
Hulk smash


----------



## Ady34 (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island. new video pg27*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Hulk smash


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45 optiwhite. Barb Island. new video pg27*

youtube has chosen a song to put over it instead... will be available soon...maybe!

haha its on now with beethoven


----------



## Ian Holdich (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

brilliant mate!

The scape is looking superb, and those Barbs are ace!


----------



## Ady34 (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

Cool Iain, nice little vid. 
My computer takes so long to do anything that loading one up is a chore, let alone editing it!
Really good mate, like the 'blinking' transitions  
Is that the last Cardinal being difficult to catch or is he a stayer? 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Alastair (6 Jul 2012)

*90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

Tanks lookin great mate n love the vid. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

Cheers guys, bit of a test run 
the cardinals are still in the tank Ady, the idea of catching them keeps putting me off!
Ill do one in 3 or 4 weeks when everything has grown back in... and probably the trident will have melted entirely  always something.


----------



## greenink (8 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

Where are those stainless steel intake end caps from? Look much nicer than anything I can find online.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Jul 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. working video pg27*

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crystal-Cherr ... 2a1d25341e


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Aug 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island.*

quick update.... been running the tank with super low light until i get the new pump and reactor running as the side of the tank the G6 supplies flow to (left side) has very weak growth and BBA started to show itself again.  The tank is kind of in stasis.  Left side will need some work once im up and running again.





pipes need a clean but they come off this week so just been lazy.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Sep 2012)

*Re: 90x75x45. Barb Island. Uneven spraybar, diy reactor*

So was a busy day today swopping out the g6 for an eheim 5000 and diy reactor.  Day didnt start well with starting the syphon to WC and only realising after a  minute or two i didnt put the end of the hose out the window!! DOH!!  This really did set the tone for the rest of the day sadly!  Anyway after a very frustrating time, a run to MA for better hosing, loads of leaks and most frustratingly breaking my twin co2 splitter and bubble counter by over tightening it.






So pump is running, no noise once door is shut, diy reactor is doing what it is supposed to and all is well.... almost!
Im a little baffled so maybe someone could offer a solution...
When the pump is running the spraybar has an uneven spread, out of the water the far end of the spraybar will hit the front glass on the lowest setting yet the outlet end of the spraybar it only squirts out about 3" ????
im quite stumped what could cause this???  Which is annoying as the whole reason to change was to get even flow across the whole tank!!





any optinions will be very welcome


----------



## foxfish (2 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

Nice job - it's all about hole size & spacing!


----------



## nry (2 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

I'm guessing the only reason one end flows more than another is down to water pressure being uneven along the length of the bar - I wondered if my Tetra spray bar would do this when I lengthened it with a spare bit of Tetra spray bar, however it still flows evenly (to my eye anyhow!) across the length.  Is yours a DIY one?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

yeah, drilled on a pillar drill at pretty exact spacing and same hole size so really confused.  Last diy spraybar in 22mm was fine??


----------



## foxfish (2 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

You have to many holes or to big a holes, they can be tricky to get right!
You can block up a few holes with clear epoxy to get it right or just temporarily tape over a few holes with electrical tape until you get it right. You could even fill every hole & re drill through the epoxy.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

ok, ill get some tape sorted today and have a play then drill a new one once i figure the number needed.  Thanks fox.


----------



## flygja (3 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

I would cover up every alternate hole for now. Looks like you have too many holes judging by commercial spray bars?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (4 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

I had a little play with the spraybar today, covered 4 holes and this seems to have solved the issue so will redrill a new bar soon.
Reactor is working well however if i have the flow as high as i would like then some larger bubbles get pulled through too quick , i think ill add a shower scrunchy which i had allowed for by adding criss-cross acrylic guard before the outlet, this will slow flow slightly but should increase co2 efficiency (still have another 2500lph to play with, overkill  :?  )

Had some pearling yesterday so feel the distribution is better, also added the old classic Microsorum pteropus to the left hand side which works well and will change the wood on the left side which ive never been happy with.

One downside to the island is that with so much space within the island the fish are happy playing around in there, darting in and out rather than being on display all the time, think i will add another dozen harlequins soon.  

Would also like to add a handful (8)  odessa barbs but not sure if the current barb population would be too happy...??
Currently 10 checker barbs, 12 cherry barbs... any thoughts if this would work??

laters


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

Reactor seems to do the job, long time since ive seen pearling in this tank and never tank wide


----------



## Antipofish (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

Hi Iain that looks great Mr !  I wish I could get pearling like that, lol.  As for Odessa barbs, they actually get quite big unless u are happy to swap them out before that happens.  I found them to be pretty bossy too, though lovely to look at.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

cheers chris, im really happy that certainly for the time being all is well... already planning the next scape   
I think i am going to chance some denisonii  :? instead of the odessa unless i get bored then i might have both     hope they dont all jump out!!


----------



## Antipofish (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

the denisonii are for this tank ?  they can get even bigger than the odessa, lol .  lovely fish though


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

It is 300 ltr so should be fine for a while... Then I'll just have to get the 180cm I keep dreaming about


----------



## Antipofish (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> It is 300 ltr so should be fine for a while... Then I'll just have to get the 180cm I keep dreaming about



Oh sorry Im getting confused, thought we were talking about your 80cm


----------



## pariahrob (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

It's always smaller than you think...

Now, back to planning my  6'!


----------



## Antipofish (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*



			
				pariahrob said:
			
		

> It's always smaller than you think...
> 
> Now, back to planning my  6'!



Skip the 180 mate, EVERYONE has a six footer.  Get an 8 footer and join the big boys, lol.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (6 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*



			
				Antipofish said:
			
		

> easerthegeezer said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the tank is 90cm but also 75cm wide so still plenty of water mate.
Once the marine is gone a standard 90 dutch is next


----------



## Iain Sutherland (7 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY reactor and spraybar fitted.*

Went to MA shelford today and bought a few tankmates.. i didnt really mean to do it so soon but you know how it is!!
Really wish i had another tank as they had the most beautifully bright diamond neon tetras ive ever seen, £3.50 mind! And an amazing crowntail fighter... think i need a bedroom nano now   
Will post some pics and hopefully a video over the weekend.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. New Video*

Thought id see if i can figure out movie maker, its pretty easy dont know why i had so many issues first time round  
First bit is the halide coming on, it burns in really green as i can only imagine an NAG green to do... sadly doesnt show too well on video though, looks more yellow. Would like to find a bulb that remains that colour without paying £100 a bulb.



Im also happy to report that since the change round surface scum is finally a thing of the past   

Anyone know if you can change the movie settings on an eos 550d?  seems to wash out the colour a bit..


----------



## Ian Holdich (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

what a great video or a even better scape! and you managed to get the music on Ok...

as for the video settings on the camera, i'm sure they mirror your settings in manual mode, i always have my exposure set at low.

they seem to agree with me here

http://www.flickr.com/groups/canon_550d ... 873302770/

and this



> Photographers can also take manual control over exposure settings, changing the depth of field and degree of motion blur to shoot more creatively. To provide the best possible video quality, highlight tone priority (HTP) can be set independently for movie capture, without changing any still image capture settings. In situations where the subject is further away, the EOS 550D Movie Crop function records with the central 640x480 pixel area of the sensor, creating an effective magnification of approximately seven times. The EOS 550D is the first in the EOS range to feature Movie Crop and gives consumers more flexibility to capture important moments which would otherwise be too far away.


from here

 
    Canon EOS 550D / Rebel T2i , previewed with samples: Digital Photography Review  

and here



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... imkJo&NR=1

have a mess around with it, it should alter the colour rendition a little with the amount of light coming through the lens.


----------



## tim (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

Can't see the vid that reactor looks good easer


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*



			
				ianho said:
			
		

> what a great video or a even better scape! and you managed to get the music on Ok...
> 
> as for the video settings on the camera, i'm sure they mirror your settings in manual mode, i always have my exposure set at low.
> 
> have a mess around with it, it should alter the colour rendition a little with the amount of light coming through the lens.


 
Thanks Ian, long way from getting the crispness of scapes like yours but im pretty happy at the moment. So nice to see how lively the fish are since adding the reactor...they used to be quite shy, now they are always cruisin' about 

Cheers for the info, i hadnt actually looked around for an answer it was just on the top of my head when typing the post. 

MovieMaker is actually quite enjoyable to use so will play with the camera settings and spam you all with movies.



			
				tim said:
			
		

> Can't see the vid that reactor looks good easer


 
cheers tim, bit of a prototype but certain is giving the results i wanted. Will probably do a mark II later in the year that fits inside the cabinet, here a link to the video instead of embedded for you if that helps


----------



## tim (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

Ah it says not available to view on mobile will check it out on the laptop later mate cheers


----------



## tim (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

finally got to sit and watch the vid mate stunning plants look very healthy pearling away nicely this is a very impressive scape mate and i really like the fish choice how many denisonii did you get in the end stunning fish mate i would kill for a bigger tank think my missus would divorce me though   inspiring stuff mate


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

cheers tim, ended up with 4 denisonii, they have settled in great. Unfortunately 2 have very slight nips from their tails as they had jumped into the adjoining tiger barb tank so got them for £6.50 each as a deal with my friendly MA.
The barbs are great characters, love their little sparring sessions...


----------



## Antipofish (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

Great pics.  Such rich reds on those cherry barbs.  Photoshop ?  If not I would say you have the water conditions spot on 

I wanna see a FTS with the denisoni


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*

thanks chris, no colour enhancement, slight gamma bright change to get rid of reflection.  They are very randy today, lots of flaring and chasing so colours are quite strong.  Dont know whats going on my house today, the shrimp are randy as well as the clowns in the marine flicking at each other!  At least someone is getting some   
Will will try and get some of the denisonii at some point but they are pretty quick and dont hang around


----------



## Antipofish (9 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. DIY new video page 30*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> thanks chris, no colour enhancement, slight gamma bright change to get rid of reflection.  They are very randy today, lots of flaring and chasing so colours are quite strong.  Dont know whats going on my house today, the shrimp are randy as well as the clowns in the marine flicking at each other!  At least someone is getting some
> Will will try and get some of the denisonii at some point but they are pretty quick and dont hang around




Well if you have an early night, one way or another you might get some too   

Looking forward to the denisoni pic.  FAST shutter speed mate   And I MEAN fast !!!


----------



## Ady34 (10 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

Hi Iain,
just got to watch the video now and the tank is looking outstanding   
Its great to see this tank fully matured now with the tenellus carpet complete, you must be very pleased with how its turned out. The plant choices and fish choices are perfect!
Just one thing.... why have you called it Barb Island???  
Great stuff mate, the denisonii are a nice addition too.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (11 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

Thanks ady, its very encouraging to get good feedback, especially from respected members like yourself, makes all the frustration and hard work worthwhile.
I think it needs another month or two to get it where i imagine it, then might do a rearrangement rather than rescape as had an alternative scape that i tossed up with this one at the beginning using the same plants plus a few new ones to grow in for the rescape in the new year.
Now time to get coastal erosion planted up mate


----------



## somethingfishy (12 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

Haha heres some feedback from a non respected member   

Everytime I come round bud your tank is looking better and better ... chuffed your hard work is paying off I reckon this will be the first of many great tanks


----------



## Ady34 (12 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> Thanks ady, its very encouraging to get good feedback, especially from respected members like yourself, makes all the frustration and hard work worthwhile.
> I think it needs another month or two to get it where i imagine it, then might do a rearrangement rather than rescape as had an alternative scape that i tossed up with this one at the beginning using the same plants plus a few new ones to grow in for the rescape in the new year.
> Now time to get coastal erosion planted up mate



Cheers mate but credit where credits due, it's a great looking scape and I know how hard you've worked to get it so  
Wanted to order my plants this week but keep changing my mind, don't know whether to keep it simple and in keeping or go a bit eclectic and try a few different plants out :? 
Look forward to your rearrangement, although it'll be a shame to take this one down.



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> Haha heres some feedback from a non respected member
> 
> Everytime I come round bud your tank is looking better and better ... chuffed your hard work is paying off I reckon this will be the first of many great tanks



 I respect you dude.
Your very lucky being able to see this tank first hand, there's nothing better than seeing in the flesh!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*



			
				somethingfishy said:
			
		

> Haha heres some feedback from a non respected member
> Everytime I come round bud your tank is looking better and better ... chuffed your hard work is paying off I reckon this will be the first of many great tanks



what are you after this time?   

Yeah, photos never do any tanks justice no matter how good at photography the person is.  Was great to see some tanks at aquatics live in the flesh... did i hear somewhere that mark was taking his tank this year..??


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. infuriating times!!*

Been a tough 2 weeks... following the disaster that was the flood its been 2 weeks trying to dial everything back in.  As my housemates panicked, as you would, they unplugged everything and even turned all the co2 knobs.  Sure enough after fixing the flood issues BBA showed it ugly bearded head again, so back we go... cut the grass, light raised, liquid carbon dose upped, co2 injection up, flow up and 3 WC a week.  This is like deja vu!!  Anyhoo i made BBA my bitch and its running scared lol

Tennelus is coming back with avengance, swopped out 1 piece of wood which was annoying me (still wrong), now another piece looks odd as well!  So plan to have a day with this tank soon sorting the wood, thinning the bolbitus on the right as it is out of control, trim out some less accessible plants and swop out the stems for something else... just because i can.

terrible out of focus post trim shot    just for my record


----------



## Antipofish (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

Bloody annoying   But you will make it bounce back quick Im sure. The centre piece still looks awesome btw


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Sep 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

thanks chris, im semi confident im 90% back to where i was co2 wise.  Also suffered some crypt melt so will take some time for them to thicken up again, assuming it has stopped now.
Ive also come to the conclusion im not a fan of akadama, it mists the water far too easily when even gently disturbed which of course in turn clogs the mosses up, which seem to have taken a big hit sadly.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

quick update after trimming crypts and bolbitus.  Left side growth is still lagging compared to the right so am planning on heavily trimming out that side to even it out, i think it is due to sunlight that comes in the window on the right.


----------



## Ian Holdich (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

love this scape, this could be entered into the IAPLC and do really well. Well done mate!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. new video page 30*

thanks ian, i wish i had your faith     

Guess we will see next year....


----------



## Ady34 (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

Hey Iain,
looking good  
Like the subtle tweaks to the wood position rear left, adds extra depth   not that this tank needs it   
Amazing how much the tenellus has grown back in since the trim, and whats the new addition to the left of centre foreground rock?
Barbs seem present and correct, no issues with jumping Denisonii? and hows the shrimp population with all those barbs, considering cherrys for my tank?
I agree with 'tother' Ian, worthy of iaplc   
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## killi69 (10 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

Looking REALLY nice Iain. Am big fan of ferns on wood as you know and you have presented yours so well.  I need to start thinning mine out and am finding it hard to decide where to cut back and where to leave the growth lush and thick. I will be watching this and learn! I hope your new design will stick to the fern + wood theme 
Regards
Andre


----------



## Iain Sutherland (11 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*



			
				Ady34 said:
			
		

> Hey Iain,
> looking good
> Like the subtle tweaks to the wood position rear left, adds extra depth   not that this tank needs it
> Amazing how much the tenellus has grown back in since the trim, and whats the new addition to the left of centre foreground rock?
> ...



cheers ady, Wood still isnt right, this has been something else i have learnt with this tank... take the time to get the wood right from the off and be bloody sure its not going to move! Im a oaf with a net!
Tennelus growth has been good, 11 days since i leveled it.  It's going red though which i thought i'd like but dont, its much less vibrant.  Have wound down the trace ferts which seems to have helping it green up a little but believe it's a light response.
No jumping barbs but think a few harlequins might have taken a walk  :?   Cherries are fine, there are more every month.  The barbs definitely pick off the babies as i see sudden little squalls if the shrimp are stupid enough to swim in open water.  I keep the fish really hungry too, only feed 2 or three times a week.  Starving the barbs for 3 days then feeding live food for 2 days really produces amazing colours and mating behaviour.  Think i might try doing a cold water change in the cycle and see if i can get some babies, i wont hold my breath though  



			
				killi69 said:
			
		

> Looking REALLY nice Iain. Am big fan of ferns on wood as you know and you have presented yours so well.  I need to start thinning mine out and am finding it hard to decide where to cut back and where to leave the growth lush and thick. I will be watching this and learn! I hope your new design will stick to the fern + wood theme
> Regards
> Andre



hey andre, im loving the ferns to but also trying to figure out how to trim them lol  I do remove even slightly damaged leaves, when i dont the damaged leaf tends to grow a plantlet on its tip which seems to slow the growth of the rest of the plant. You now know as much as me   
Think ferns and wood will always feature andre, as will moss.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

Was just enjoying looking at the tank and at the risk of over doing it with photos i have a couple more.  Pipes and reactor cleaning is the job for the weekend, interesting that you can see how much dirtier the glass pipes get next to acrylic.   
Was a bit naughty the other day and bought a fish on impulse    Ive always wanted a red tail black shark, Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, for a long time but know it wouldnt be suitable for me really so had been thinking about a Ruby/rainbow shark, Epalzeorhynchos frenatus, but hadnt seen any nice ones.. then i did.  What a beautiful fish, matt grey and bight red fins!!  He puts the checker barbs red fins to shame!   No pics though as he is by far the fastest fish i have ever had, way faster than the denesonii's, which he likes to prove as soon as i try and focus on him, he seems to be enjoying cleaning up my rocks though   

Gotta catch those bloody cardinals   

From my sofa spot





For those asking, drop checker is this colour when the halide comes on 2 hours after t5's and stays like this until lights off. 




Laters


----------



## Ady34 (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

Hi Iain,
Nice shots again, no worry of ever overdoing the photos mate!
Do you always run your dc with so little air gap? Is this to speed up response time for more accuracy?
Cheers
Ady


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

no mate, just because i havent changed the dc for 2 weeks  :? 

Oh, from your previous post the new plant at the front is a spiky riccia stone from the nano, just interested to see what happens, its not supposed to like liquid carbon which i use and want to see how it will cope if i drop it straight back in the low tech when grown...??


----------



## Ady34 (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*



			
				easerthegeezer said:
			
		

> no mate, just because i havent changed the dc for 2 weeks  :?
> 
> Oh, from your previous post the new plant at the front is a spiky riccia stone from the nano, just interested to see what happens, its not supposed to like liquid carbon which i use and want to see how it will cope if i drop it straight back in the nano when grown...



Ah, ok, thought I was missing a trick  
Thanks for clearing up the plant, your always experimenting with something.....noticed you were quite involved in a glute thread, are you making your own liquid carbon now too?
Oh and sharks are cool, rtbs are one of my favourites but seems you never know what your gonna get, calm and easy going or a real brute. Viktor had one in his old home island tank i remember and it looked pretty cool cruising around. Sanj has one in his rainbowfish tank too.... but then that is a mahoosive tank! Are the red finned/ruby sharks supposed to be less boisterous? Can imagine with its shape it'll be another perfect fit to compliment the current fish stock....must be nice having a big tank  
Cheerio
Ady


----------



## Iain Sutherland (12 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island.*

haha, no tricks here, in fact i think i read its the other way round...larger surface area of water/air gives quicker response but dont quote me on that.
I believe rainbows are supposed to be less territorial especially if added last, dont think the barbs would put up with any shenanigans anyway. The LFS i got it from has a 300G display tank that they are happy to rehome the shark if/when needed as he will outgrow mine quite quickly.   The subconscious red / black theme goes on...

Yes to the glut mate, which is why its hard to wean this tank off it as the cost is effectively 0 now and have enough for 3.5 years


----------



## Iain Sutherland (14 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Rainbow shark*

Rainbow decided to be sociable.. for a few seconds.




Active night in the tank, live food for 2 days and denisonii have started sparring.


----------



## Antipofish (14 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Rainbow Shark.*

You have started treading the road to oblivion my friend.  Though I am not convinced that is a regular red tailed shark as the ones I am used to seeing have just a red tail and their other fins are black.  Google Red Tail Shark to see what I mean


----------



## Alastair (15 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Rainbow Shark.*

Good point Chris but it is a variant of the red tailed black shark just with the rest of its fins coloured and a slightly lighter body colour. 
Red finned shark - epalzeorhynchos frenatum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Antipofish (15 Oct 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Rainbow Shark.*



			
				Alastair said:
			
		

> Good point Chris but it is a variant of the red tailed black shark just with the rest of its fins coloured and a slightly lighter body colour.
> Red finned shark - epalzeorhynchos frenatum
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thought so, as the RTS I had was just the tail fin and the rest of the body and fins totally black.  The variant here is similar to one where it has a cream body and red fins.... in shape also.  The RTS is more chunky and this one is more slender.  Maybe it wont be quite such a stroppy b4stard


----------



## Iain Sutherland (20 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Hey all, got some time tonight to shoot some video footage but thought i'd post a little tease while i edit.

Best in 720p+


----------



## Ady34 (20 Nov 2012)

*Re: Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

oooh, you are a one....hurry up with the edit!!!!


----------



## Westyggx (20 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Some epic pearling that Iain!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Moss is the next challenge... seems to go well then 6 months or so it goes down hill?
Rainbow shark even made a shock appearance, think ive only seen it 5 times since it went in.


----------



## Ady34 (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Awesome Iain!
It must be a pleasure to sit and watch that, lush plant health and vibrant fish. You've nailed it mate  
Really great tank and an excellent video. 
Thanks for sharing.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## jack-rythm (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Wow great video!   can't wait to buy the Mrs her DSLR lol lol

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

thanks guys, i pretty happy with it but still have my share of issues.  Im itching to rescape this one now, unlikey before christmas though.

  only just realised watching it back how wonky the first shot is


----------



## tim (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Love your fish selection Iain tank looks super healthy only thing I'd like is a vodka with that lemonade   must be stunning to see in the flesh inspirational stuff


----------



## Ian Holdich (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

I love this mate, and it is one of the best scape on here at the moment. Make sure you get some decent pics of it before you take it down, as you should enter this in the IAPLC next year.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*



			
				tim said:
			
		

> Love your fish selection Iain tank looks super healthy only thing I'd like is a vodka with that lemonade   must be stunning to see in the flesh inspirational stuff


thanks tim, i just wish i was at home more often when the lights are on, generally only see it once or twice a week so it quite a suprise to see so much pearling.  You also have to pretend the cardinals arent in there, cant catch them for toffee!



			
				Ian Holdich said:
			
		

> I love this mate, and it is one of the best scape on here at the moment. Make sure you get some decent pics of it before you take it down, as you should enter this in the IAPLC next year.


Ha! You flatter me. Not even in the same league as you and the big boys.... yet   
Will do for sure, hope in the next few weeks for a final pic but can see it dragging until new year now silly season is here.


----------



## basil (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

Nah.........surely you got a bubble curtain down there!!?


----------



## Iain Sutherland (21 Nov 2012)

*Re: Barb Island. Lemonade anyone? Video tease.*

you got me!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (22 Nov 2012)

I remembered Mark mentioning that watching an HD aquarium video via memory stick on a TV was good so i thought id give it a go.  WOW!! Very very impressed, i didnt realise that my laptop and/or youtube washed out so much colour.
A top tip from Mr Evans!
I think i need to make a hour long movie as a 'screen saver' when playing music through the TV


----------



## Iain Sutherland (19 Dec 2012)

this has been a little neglected over the last 3 weeks, overgrown so BBA came back ..again...
Had an overdue clean up.





managed to break the front piece of wood   will try and do a better fix another day.


----------



## Alastair (19 Dec 2012)

I really like the 'neglected' look mate, much more natural. Looking great though bud. Very nice 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Iain Sutherland (19 Dec 2012)

yeah me too mate, the tall stems bugger the flow though... something of a design flaw having an island with a spraybar.  Hope to get final pics once the tennellus comes back.


----------



## Ian Holdich (19 Dec 2012)

Looking really good mate, have you thought of somethinto thinner to replace the stems with? Something like a couple of aponogetons, or cyperus helferi, this would actually work with the flow IMO.


----------



## Mark Evans (19 Dec 2012)

Absolutely crackin' mate. Way to go!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (19 Dec 2012)

Ian Holdich said:


> Looking really good mate, have you thought of somethinto thinner to replace the stems with? Something like a couple of aponogetons, or cyperus helferi, this would actually work with the flow IMO.


I would like to try something else in the middle, cyperus could give it a wildness.  Was thinking another stem but ultimately  got that itch to rescape now.



Mark Evans said:


> Absolutely crackin' mate. Way to go!


thanks mark, now just dreading trying to get a final few pics


----------



## Martin Osmond (21 Dec 2012)

Just read this whole journal , very informative and thoroughly enjoyable to read, certainly one of the best journals i have read, superb looking tank also.


----------



## hydrophyte (22 Dec 2012)

This is looking great! I really like the island concept.


----------



## Arana (22 Dec 2012)

Nice work, well done


----------



## Iain Sutherland (26 Jan 2013)

Had a trial run at a FTS tonight... got loads to go through and tweek. Camera confuses me more than ever 




Think there is too much glare from the light?  Any pointers welcome.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jan 2013)




----------



## Ian Holdich (27 Jan 2013)

What a great shot! 

Is there any chance of getting more light at the back of the tank? The way i find this easier is to move the unit/units to the back of the tank, and move the tank away from the wall a little, obviously a white background helps (Not attatched to the tank though.)I'm no expert, but it is the one thing mark taught me which really improves a photo. 

Ps, this will rank quite highly in the iaplc IMO.


----------



## tim (27 Jan 2013)

Very very good scape mate one of the best on here excellent !!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jan 2013)

@ Ian Holdich
Thanks a lot mate, i need to work something out to get more light behind it (and how to use the camera!)  Problem is i didnt leave a lot of room behind the tank when i set it up.... at the time i thought it was loads lol and now it cant be moved.  I bought a 3mtr matt white foam board that now stands behind it also between the tank top and the light unit which helped but not enough as still have a lot of shadow cast as its so close to the wall.  I think ultimately i need more light all over, after my hols i might fire up a couple of 4 x 39w arcadias dave has lent me to see how that goes.  Does mean buying 8 bulbs though 

At least ive got something to send to IAPLC this year, i hope your right and it does ok.  Plant health is still only 80%... having such a large island in an odd shape tank does cause a few head scratchers.



tim said:


> Very very good scape mate one of the best on here excellent !!


 
Thanks Tim, thats really encouraging to hear.  I just glad to be the company of so many great aquascapers on here, everyday is a school day.


----------



## Ady34 (27 Jan 2013)

easerthegeezer said:


>


Awesome!!
I so love this scape, this is a great shot to have in the locker for iaplc..... a rare show from the ruby shark too....impressive! 
I really like the orangey hue at the rear substrate level fading into the darker greyish above, really compliments the fish choice and the island scape. If the light wasn't so bright at the top it would be ideal, but I know it's tricky trying to get rid of that.....maybe lower the lighting unit for photos so there is less spill?
Alternatively like me, more power needed at the rear to blow it out completely white....8 tubes may well do this! Lol

Great scape nonetheless, I reckon let the stems grow a few more inches and try another final tank shot before the rescape. 

Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jan 2013)

hey ady, thanks for your kind words, the tank isnt quite ready for a final shot as id like the tennelus to be longer as well as the stems but going away soon so needed to get something in case its an algae factory when i get back.  It was quite good fun trying to set up a final shot.. its a bit of a mission but nice to get some pictures without pipes etc...  
I hope ill get another chance to try again when im back then rescape in march, got an image in my head im itching to see if itll work, very different from this.


----------



## Mark Evans (27 Jan 2013)

Crackin scape.

You need to get more distance between the tank and background. It's casting the notorious 'shadow line'

At least 30cm will get rid of this issue.


----------



## killi69 (27 Jan 2013)

Looking REALLY great Iain. What a shame to take it down. Get another tank instead!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jan 2013)

Mark Evans said:


> Crackin scape.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

thanks mark, been a lot of learning with this tank, certainly in relation to how the hardscape is set up to start with so it doesnt move at every water change... that and leaving more room behind for pictures. Can fully appreciate the convenience of your wheels now. Cheers for the tips on how to shoot, i wish i could say i understood it all, i just installed DPP last night and my immediate feeling is confusion. Hope to get some time tomorrow to play with it and sort through all the pics.



killi69 said:


> Looking REALLY great Iain. What a shame to take it down. Get another tank instead!


 
Already looking into another tank andre, one just isnt enough when using ferns... I struggle to believe this has been running for nearly a year now!! No wonder i got the itch something bad. (not that kind of itch Nath ) Thanks for your comments.


----------



## Ady34 (27 Jan 2013)

What a nature scape....it's just gone mental! Brilliant from this to this photo and a great achievement.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (27 Jan 2013)

15kg of minlandscape rock was a waste of money ady 

Looking back at this there were so many things that were wrong hardscape wise at setup. Need to start figuring out how to build height that will last long term for the next one.

My biggest gripe with this layout is that even though the tank is so broad it still looks quite 2D. Next one will be built all around depth perspective.... or thats the plan anyway.

Just got to work and the pictures look entirely different on my PC monitor!! Really overtly green and contrast is all out of wack...


----------



## Ady34 (27 Jan 2013)

Well it looks great to me mate, and yeah, not a single bit o mlr on display now lol.
I suppose that's the thing about excelling in anything.....you always want to do better and look at ways of improving your skills...here's to the next!
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2013)

you guys officially see the shark as much as me now


----------



## Alastair (30 Jan 2013)

Stunning mate 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ian Holdich (30 Jan 2013)

Fantastic pic mate!


----------



## killi69 (30 Jan 2013)

Really nice fish Iain. The completed scape pics above look fantastic. I am also very inspired by your carpet of tenullus and am tempted to give it a go myself instead of/ alongside the hairgrass, which is really not taking off.


easerthegeezer said:


> 15kg of minlandscape rock was a waste of money ady Looking back at this there were so many things that were wrong hardscape wise at setup. Need to start figuring out how to build height that will last long term for the next one.


Funny looking back isn't it? - all the care taken in selecting the right shape and positioning of rocks and wood, when all that mattered really was the shape of the little bits of wood sticking out


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2013)

thanks ian and alistair. Just wish it came out to play more.

Andre, the tennelus seems very undemanding, i would certainly recommend it.  It will all be coming out early march if you want and instant carpet?  Ive learnt a lot in a year thats for sure, keen to try my hand at some new hardscape layouts asap. Seeing george play with his signature is a real tease!!


----------



## killi69 (30 Jan 2013)

easerthegeezer said:


> It will all be coming out early march if you want and instant carpet?


   Wow, thank you Iain that sounds perfect.  I will roll out the red carpet when you come and see visit in March then...
Thanks so much.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (30 Jan 2013)

i would have expected nothing less  
Pleasure to help mate, like i said should be early march for the breakdown might even be able to hand deliver it


----------



## Iain Sutherland (4 Feb 2013)

just playing around...


----------



## whatok (4 Feb 2013)

lush


----------



## LondonDragon (4 Feb 2013)

When you moving that to my living room?


----------



## hydrophyte (4 Feb 2013)

Wonderful!


----------



## Alastair (4 Feb 2013)

Love that shot mate


----------



## tim (4 Feb 2013)

Absolutely stunning Iain, I really hope you get a shot of this your happy to enter to iaplc, enter this and if it doesn't place well there is something wrong with the competition mate, really is top notch mate


----------



## Iain Sutherland (4 Feb 2013)

thanks all, wait for the shot in 4 weeks after my housemate looks after it lol The trident is really out of control!
Tim, i hope it will be ok when im back as hope to still get a FTS for IAPLC.  The tank only gets an hour of halide now so the carpet has taken forever to grow back this time.


----------



## jack-rythm (5 Feb 2013)

Is it just crazy trident in the centre? Looks amazing man. 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Feb 2013)

cheers jack, in that picture it looks like just trident but the middle is filled with rotala rotundifolia red which is now really struggling as the plant mass is too dense and i cant get co2 into the lower stems in the middle of the island.  I cant be bothered to restart all the stems again.  If i was keeping it then i would thin everything out by 50%.

Gave it a good clean up and shake down yesterday before i go away and saw about 40+ full grown scarlet cherries which i never see out in the open, will be really interesting to see how many there are when i break it down.
So question... do all cherries, no matter the grade, go fully red when they hit maturity?  Ive never seen a 2cm RCS with poor colouration?


----------



## Ionut Godea (20 Feb 2013)

Interesting tank! It look's wild!


----------



## Alastair (20 Feb 2013)

Most cherries I've had the adults go really red mate yes


----------



## Iain Sutherland (8 Mar 2013)

Well things went fairly while i was away considering that for 3 weeks my housemate whos never even had a tank was looking after it.  I had reduced the light intensity dramatically so there was very little change when i got back aside from BBA coming back a bit and the stems got crowded out so dropped all lower leaves in the middle of the island.
So as it was in worse shape than before i left i have began the task of breaking this down ready for the new one and will have to use one of the pre holiday photos for IAPLC.  I'm not too sure there are any that show the tank as it looked in the flesh and doubt it will rank too well but i got what i wanted from it as ive enjoyed (nearly) every minute of it.

Again, big love to all who have commented, advised, looked and generally contributed during this tanks life.  No doubt ill been needing all your help again soon for the next project.... hopefully not too much though


----------



## Alastair (9 Mar 2013)

On to better things mate. And don't be too negative about the ranking I think it's a fantastic tank. You might be surprised


----------



## Ian Holdich (9 Mar 2013)

I think you'll be very supprised! It's a great scape IMO. 

And remember its not all about ranking, you enjoyed the tank and leant from it.


----------



## tim (9 Mar 2013)

If this doesn't place top 200 something wrong with the judges IMO, this is a top scape mate inspiring to say the least, looking forward to you future journals Iain


----------



## Iain Sutherland (9 Mar 2013)

Thanks a lot guys.


Alastair said:


> On to better things mate. And don't be too negative about the ranking I think it's a fantastic tank. You might be surprised


certainly am mate or at least bigger  I dont have the photography skills of the top boys sadly... not to mention growing skills!



Ian Holdich said:


> I think you'll be very supprised! It's a great scape IMO.
> And remember its not all about ranking, you enjoyed the tank and leant from it.


 
absolutely right Ian, Ive learnt loads from this tank and will miss it as already had a new scape in mind to suit the dimensions but heyho. Something about the journey not the destination blah blah... 



tim said:


> If this doesn't place top 200 something wrong with the judges IMO, this is a top scape mate inspiring to say the least, looking forward to you future journals Iain


very nice of you to say tim, great to know it may inspire others. Hopefully you wont have to wait too long for some new journals, im keen to get my arms wet.


----------



## Ady34 (9 Mar 2013)

agree with what has already been said........a great tank and a great journal 

looking forward the the NA set up mate 

Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Apr 2013)

Its all over  this tank was running for the best part of a year and today was breakdown day.
All went well aside from catching around 200 cherry shrimp in merky water, i didnt even attempt to catch all the babies.

Also found that the diy reactor must have had a leak as hiding round the back of it there was pretty heavy scale deposit, if it was leaking water its safe to say it was leaking co2 also which no doubt contributed to the endless battle with BBA.

bolbitus madness





holding tank after sending out some plants




ready for delivery to danny on sunday




Its been a journey.


----------



## Iain Sutherland (2 Apr 2013)

There was one more thing.... whats the life expectancy on Manzanita?  It was all pretty soft when removing to the point that some would disintegrate between my fingers.
Plenty of people using it so just wondering if this is 'normal'?  Its 2 years old and has been used most of that time.


----------



## Alastair (2 Apr 2013)

Upwards and onwards mate. I'm sure the next will be just as good


----------



## tim (2 Apr 2013)

this was/ is one of the best tanks on here dude. real pleasure to follow this journal mate especially the fish choice looking forward to following the next one mate.


----------



## LondonDragon (3 Apr 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> There was one more thing.... whats the life expectancy on Manzanita? It was all pretty soft when removing to the point that some would disintegrate between my fingers.
> Plenty of people using it so just wondering if this is 'normal'? Its 2 years old and has been used most of that time.


Its normal for this to happen to manzi, unfortunately!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (3 Apr 2013)

Hey paulo, so does that mean it is time to bin this lot of manzi?


----------



## killi69 (3 Apr 2013)

LondonDragon said:


> Iain Sutherland said: ↑ There was one more thing.... whats the life expectancy on Manzanita? It was all pretty soft when removing to the point that some would disintegrate between my fingers. Plenty of people using it so just wondering if this is 'normal'? Its 2 years old and has been used most of that time. Its normal for this to happen to manzi, unfortunately! Cheers, Paulo


I experienced the same and found the 'insides' of the older manzita branches were still hard. I scrubbed off the soft parts and keep using the rest of the wood but do wonder whether this is now 'rotting wood' polluting the water???


----------



## LondonDragon (3 Apr 2013)

Iain Sutherland said:


> Hey paulo, so does that mean it is time to bin this lot of manzi?


Well if its still usable then I don't see why not, I have noticed some pieces crumble quicker than others and considering how much this stuff costs its a little off putting 



killi69 said:


> but do wonder whether this is now 'rotting wood' polluting the water???


I don't think its anything to worry about, the only thing you might get is a little tanning of the water if any!


----------



## Iain Sutherland (5 Apr 2013)

edit... wow, new drink i cant have more than 10 of... Hendricks. 
Anyway this wasnt even posted in the right journal, appologies lol.


----------

