# Why dose ferts daily if manufactures advise weekly?



## Andy D (18 Dec 2013)

Hi All,

Well the title says it all really. What I am wondering is why we dose our ferts daily when just about every ferts manufacturer advises dosing on a weekly basis?

Thanks.


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## Andy D (18 Dec 2013)

Apologies for spelling error in title. Don't know how to edit it. 

*manufacturers


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## Michael W (18 Dec 2013)

Manufacturers usually do not know what they're talking about, eg X Nutrient is left out to avoid algae issues.


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## Andy D (18 Dec 2013)

But are we able to say that about Tropica that grow most of the plants we use?

Even they advise to dose weekly - Plant Growth Premium Fertiliser


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## Michael W (18 Dec 2013)

That I could not answer with confidence  Perhaps it's a general guideline aimed at beginners as its unlikely they will have a hi-tech tank? It does say you can vary the dosage depending on growth etc which the more knowledgeable scaper/hobbyist would pick up and know what to do, especially if they run high tech.


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## Ian Holdich (18 Dec 2013)

So, your plants don't run out of what they need...too much isn't going to 'cause' algae.


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## Andy D (18 Dec 2013)

The consensus though is to split the weekly recommended dose into daily amounts so this would still equate to the same amount of ferts being dosed over the week.

Don't get me wrong I dose daily and don't really question why too much (and perhaps I should ask Tropica) but given that they grow the plants they suggest weekly dosing. Perhaps it is to make the routine simpler.


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## Michael W (18 Dec 2013)

I know what you mean Andy, but think about this, Tropica grows most of their plants emersed, their fertilizing regimen will be different to that of submerged growth. I'm not saying they don't know anything about submerged growth as I have seen their layouts and it clearly suggests that they know what they're doing so asking them via email etc is suggested.

I think over the years people start to apply the EI method to that of liquid ferts too which suggests why even liquid ferts are suggested to be dosed daily.


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## Andy D (18 Dec 2013)

Michael W said:


> I think over the years people start to apply the EI method to that of liquid ferts too which suggests why even liquid ferts are suggested to be dosed daily.



Perhaps this is why. Are we adopting the EI process with our ferts as we understand the benefits it brings?


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## Michael W (18 Dec 2013)

I also believe that the commercial liquid ferts are very diluted which means that daily dosage is also recommended. Although, with EI some of us choose to mix it with water prior to dosing, we can control the amount of salts added to the recipe which means we could make solutions with the same volume as the commercial ferts but with a stronger concentration of ferts, but we can't with commercial products.


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## Martin in Holland (19 Dec 2013)

I think you have to see it from a commercial point. If a manufacturer would say you should dose daily, many (first timers) wouldn't buy their product..."pfffff to much work, I buy that easy one"....


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## Andy D (19 Dec 2013)

Martin in China said:


> I think you have to see it from a commercial point. If a manufacturer would say you should dose daily, many (first timers) wouldn't buy their product..."pfffff to much work, I buy that easy one"....



I'm not sure I buy into that either. We manage to feed our fish every day so how much harder would it be to add 1 pump (using Tropica once more as an example as their pump system is easy) of ferts each day.

I think I may email Tropica later.


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## tim (19 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> I'm not sure I buy into that either. We manage to feed our fish every day so how much harder would it be to add 1 pump (using Tropica once more as an example as their pump system is easy) of ferts each day.
> 
> I think I may email Tropica later.


Some people will find it a lot harder, just like weekly or twice weekly water changes, feeding fish has instant results they can be seen to eat it, also lfs still hung up on removing nitrogen phosphorus etc etc from tanks so adding daily would make them shudder, all branded ferts are aimed towards the masses not just those who have done a little more research.


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## geoffbark (19 Dec 2013)

Interesting thread, i too have often wondered why ADA, tropica etc. suggest to add weekly, but if you follow EI you add 3 times a week or even daily.  I personnaly belive there is no right or wrong way as long as you achieve the results you are after. Some people prefer to add daily, others weekly. Some add fert tabs to the substrate, others don't. More CO2 in some tanks less in others.

Maybe someone with a more technical qualification (Aquatic Bioloigst or like) could answer this!


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## three-fingers (20 Dec 2013)

I dose daily because the chelators used in liquid ferts don't work for long in the aquarium before the iron precipitates out and isn't as readily available to the plants. Depends on which chelator is used and your water stats, but they often only remain effective for a few hours once dosed.

Dosing daily improves availability of iron and other chelated nutrients to the plants.


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## greenink (20 Dec 2013)

I'm no scientist, but isn't it because the 'gradient' of ferts in the water matters? Ie the ratio of ferts outside the water to inside the plant, which will affect the diffusion and uptake rate. 

With tanks the key thing is to keep them consistent. And adding weekly gives a big gradient at the start of the week and a low one at the end. If ferts are limiting growth at any point, then you'll get bursts of faster and slower growth. 

Suspect it makes little difference overall compared to CO2, regular maintenance and flow though...

CEG has a post on all this somewhere!


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## GreenNeedle (20 Dec 2013)

three-fingers said:


> I dose daily because the chelators used in liquid ferts don't work for long in the aquarium before the iron precipitates out and isn't as readily available to the plants. Depends on which chelator is used and your water stats, but they often only remain effective for a few hours once dosed.
> 
> Dosing daily improves availability of iron and other chelated nutrients to the plants.


 
Tropica uses HEEDTA which I would assume lasts longer than gluconate or EDTA.

The weekly thing is precisely as above said.  Many people would buy the fert that says dose weekly instead of daily.  You underestimate how lazy (even unintentionally) many people are.

We dose daily quite simply because...........would it be better for the 'Im a celeb' contestants to do their tasks all week and get a massive feast at the end?  No it's better they have daily.  Means that if there is a shortfall then the plant can get back on it the next day.  Smaller time of starvation etc.  If you put it in weekly and something falls short then it's a longer wait for replenishment.

You can dose however you like in reality.  dependent on how precise you are dosing and how hi-tec the tank is then it doesn't really matter in the end.  The lower tec tanks can be dose weekly, bi weekly, even never.  The higher tec the tank is the more important to make sure nothing is limited.


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## Andy D (20 Dec 2013)

Response from Tropica:

I have read the tread on ukaps and understand your confusion. You’re right, it is always better to dose frequently and in smaller quantities than to dose more rarely and in greater quantities. The plants prefer to be fed regularly – like humans. When fertilizers are added more rarely, the plants might get hungry, adapt to the environment lacking fertilizers and need time to re-adapt when fertilizers are dosed again.

We recommend dosing weekly as many tanks have plants with a steady and slowly growth, and in that case, it’s okay to dose weekly. In addition, many aquatic hobbyists only spend time on their tank once a week, if not even rarer. However, in tanks with rapidly growing plants, the plants need a dosage several times a week to ensure the best possible growth conditions. In our test laboratory, we usually dose 2-3 times a week.

I hope this answers your question.


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## Nathaniel Whiteside (20 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> Response from Tropica:
> 
> I have read the tread on ukaps and understand your confusion. You’re right, it is always better to dose frequently and in smaller quantities than to dose more rarely and in greater quantities. The plants prefer to be fed regularly – like humans. When fertilizers are added more rarely, the plants might get hungry, adapt to the environment lacking fertilizers and need time to re-adapt when fertilizers are dosed again.
> 
> ...



Could you not have just PM'd Mick.dk on here


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## Andy D (20 Dec 2013)

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> Could you not have just PM'd Mick.dk on here



I'm sure you have told me this before to be fair but my memory is not as good as it once was! 

You'll have to remind me, does he work for Tropica?


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## Mick.Dk (21 Dec 2013)

Michael W said:


> I know what you mean Andy, but think about this, Tropica grows most of their plants emersed, their fertilizing regimen will be different to that of submerged growth. I'm not saying they don't know anything about submerged growth as I have seen their layouts and it clearly suggests that they know what they're doing


Just to clarify and finish this: Tropica does ofcourse not use the same formula of ferts, dosing production, as is sold for tanks !!!
Mick.


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## Andy D (21 Dec 2013)

Mick.Dk said:


> Just to clarify and finish this: Tropica does ofcourse not use the same formula of ferts, dosing production, as is sold for tanks !!!
> Mick.


 
Mick, do you work for Tropica? I hope this has not caused offence?

I did not wish to single them out and my question was one born purely out of curiosity as to why the consensus on planted tank forums was to dose daily but the actual manufactures of the ferts advise to dose weekly.

I have the answer now.


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## Mick.Dk (21 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> You'll have to remind me, does he work for Tropica?


Yes he does........


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## Andy D (21 Dec 2013)

Mick.Dk said:


> Yes he does........


 
Good to know


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## Mick.Dk (21 Dec 2013)

Absolutely no offence taken. The question was very relevant, and no business should be above questioning. If business can't argue trustworthy fore their actions, they're bound to get into trouble.........
My real problem is "balance" here, since I'm here as a hobbyist - but under (very reasonable) restrictions on UKAPS, as an employee of a comercial business!!!
Mick.


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## Andy D (21 Dec 2013)

Mick.Dk said:


> Absolutely no offence taken.


Good!



Mick.Dk said:


> My real problem is "balance" here, since I'm here as a hobbyist - but under (very reasonable) restrictions on UKAPS, as an employee of a comercial business!!!
> Mick.


Its a fine line!


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## Mick.Dk (21 Dec 2013)

Yep ......but "The Dragon" has promised to send fire at me, if I approach the limit (since I havent been able to find any exact guides !!!)
Mick.


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## three-fingers (22 Dec 2013)

SuperColey1 said:


> Tropica uses HEEDTA which I would assume lasts longer than gluconate or EDTA.


Interesting! I've been using gluconate and...whatever's in Easy-Life ProFito - I need to find out! Maybe I'll give Tropica a try when I run out of ProFito.

Not that I think there will be much observable difference in plant growth lol, and I don't have the ability to test how long its useful in the water for, but may as well give it a shot just in case  .


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## plantbrain (22 Dec 2013)

I know Claus C. and Troels A. personally.
I asked Claus how often should we be dosing planted tanks back in 1998 with their Trace mix.
4-5 x a week, they say 1x a week because there are so many aquariums with just one or two plants etc, so they do the conservative thing, but folks that are planted specialist, certainly need to dose more, often a lot more.

*Maybe folks think the directions on the bottle where written in stone or something and common sense is not included.*

I'd been larding it on back then, everyone else wondered why my tanks grew plants and rare hard to grow species so well. Claus said every tank he saw other than mine was trace limited when he traveled here. And that was back when folks had even less lighting. I have not used Tropica in about 8-10 years or so. CMS+B and then I add Fe gluconate and DTPA to that.

Tropica still one of the best commercial brands you can get after 20 some years now.


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## plantbrain (22 Dec 2013)

Andy D said:


> Perhaps this is why. Are we adopting the EI process with our ferts as we understand the benefits it brings?


 


FYI, EI was developed using Tropica Master grow(Old name for their traces).
I was using about 20 mls 4-5 x a week on my 90 Gallon, quite a bit more than the average planted tank hobbyist.


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## GHNelson (22 Dec 2013)

Agree with Tom
I have a non Co2 low light aquarium ...although i dose liquid carbon occasional to get rid of some algae on a bunch of neglected Anubis. 
I dose 3 to 4 times more Ferts/Trace...each day....more than i would in a Co2 injected aquarium. 
As far as i'm concerned Co2 is a Fertilizer and if its missing we should dose more ferts/trace....not less.
hoggie


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## plantbrain (24 Dec 2013)

If you look at Tropica's table matrix, you can see the differences in Relative rates of growth for Riccia with different light and CO2 levels that cover 95% of all methods used.

So you have roughly 20X difference due solely to light and CO2 levels.
Nutrients are independent in this test(eg, EI or similar scheme).
Tropica Aquarium Plants - Rådgivning - Tekniske artikler - Vandplanters biologi - Interaktioner mellem lys og CO2

There's about a dozen other papers that looked at the effects of CO2 enrichment on aquatic plants, most had 10-20X more growth for higher light.
Thus, Tropica's table is not surprising and I would agree with it and the general conclusion.
I think Excel will give you about 3-4x more growth.

So not only do they develop good products and plants...........they support the hobby aggressively, they also support good research for hobbyists that simply will not get done any other way, focusing on the main aspects of growth.
Good folks.


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