# My first DSLR Camera - Canon



## greenjar

Hi everyone

I have been inspired by everyones great photography on the forum and now I want to focus on improving my photography, so obviously the first issue is that of equipment upgrade.

I have never owned a dslr camera, only ever point and shoot. I have decide I want Canon as I like the layout as well as the fact that all my friends and colleagues use them.

I have a budget of £600 max and I would need to purchase from a high street retailer (eg. Jessops) so that I could pay for this over 6 months interest free (I appreciate this might not get me the best deals but hey ho)

I am not really interested in second hand gear as I'm weary of second hand goods of this nature (may consider offers though from forum members - know I can trust you guys   )

I have looked at two available deals, basically they are the  Canon 550d vs 500d with extra lens, both packages around £600

550d deal details
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/77142/show.html

500d with extra lens deal
http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/80640/show.html

My thinking is that perhaps at this early stage of my interest in photography, the 500d with extra lens will offer me greater flexibility and scope for experimentingand learning? 

I would appreciate if any experienced photographers could offer suggestions on pros and cons of the 2 above camera's / suggestions on which package would suit me best.

Thanks everyone


----------



## George Farmer

Both cameras are more than sufficient to take the kind of images your see on here.

The 500D is the same technology as my 50D, basically wrapped in a smaller plastic body but with video.

Having the benefit of hindsight I would personally go for the cheapest 500 or 550D body-only you can find, then invest in a decent lens.  The lenses in your links are poor quality - both in build and results.

The type of lens you need depends on what you're going to be photographing.

I can recommend the 50mm f/1.8.  It's cheap, but the results can be superb.  It's a fixed focal length so doesn't offer the flexibility of a zoom lens, but it's a great lens to get you to learn the basics of photography.


----------



## Greenview

George is right. Getting a best lens you can afford is always the way to go, and the 50mm 1.8 is great quality at a crazy price. Consider buying a camera body without a lens and getting the 50 1.8. 

Make sure you have a look at camerapricebuster.com to find the best deal for the camera and lens. If you do go to Jessops, some of their stores pricematch Internet prices (at least, they used to).


----------



## Tom

Also lens-wise, you can get very good quality old lenses (from film cameras) on eBay, along with adapters to fit modern cameras. They will be manual focus only, and you'll have to set your own apertures, but it can teach you how these things work much quicker than an automatic system will. 

I use a Super Takumar 55mm f2 and a Helios 44m on my Canon 5D regularly.


----------



## tyrophagus

Buy the camera 2nd hand. There's some great cameras out there that people sell because they want the newest and latest tech.


----------



## greenjar

Thank you to everyone for your advice and comments. I will definitely be buying the body only with lens seperately.

Just to confirm, is this the 50mm f/1.8. lens mentioned above?
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Fixed_Focal_Length/EF_50mm_f18II/

Moving on, what about my first zoom lens - what  recommendations have you guys got for an all-round/flexible good value zoom lens?

Many thanks to all posters so far


----------



## George Farmer

That's it.

Google it for loads of reviews, and best prices.

It's cheap built but the optics are wonderful for the price.

For a decent general purpose zoom I really rate the Sigma 17-70 OS.  

It has a low minimum focusing distance so so makes it great for macro photography.  Really sharp and versatile, and great value.  I replaced mine with a Canon 24-105 and miss it to be honest!


----------



## greenjar

George Farmer said:
			
		

> That's it.
> 
> Google it for loads of reviews, and best prices.



Thanks George, I'll be sure to google for the best price.  Looks like you can easily pick up this liitle baby for around £70.  Thanks for the confirmation and suggestion.



			
				George Farmer said:
			
		

> For a decent general purpose zoom I really rate the Sigma 17-70 OS.
> 
> It has a low minimum focusing distance so so makes it great for macro photography.  Really sharp and versatile, and great value.  I replaced mine with a Canon 24-105 and miss it to be honest!



I'll check this out, thanks - we know that if you recommended it, then its all good  



			
				tyrophagus said:
			
		

> Buy the camera 2nd hand. There's some great cameras out there that people sell because they want the newest and latest tech.



I do hear what you saying, and agree completely, its easy to be drawn in by the cheap second hand prices.  I'm just cautious of second hand electrical and technical goods, because I know there could be minor faults which effect their performance, but I would never really know for sure because I'm not an expert or dont know what to look for etc.  I would though look into second hand stuff from friends, family and official refurbished gear etc direct from Canon - Just Ebay really thats a no go for me.


----------



## Tom

I bought my 5D on eBay - it had been a pro's backup camera and was in near mint condition. There are some great buys out there.


----------



## greenjar

Tom said:
			
		

> I bought my 5D on eBay - it had been a pro's backup camera and was in near mint condition. There are some great buys out there.



Hi Tom. I have'nt competely ruled out this option.

I will and do keep an eye out for gear on Ebay.  If something suitable comes up near to where I live, I would be up for poping round to view before buying (and also to suss out the seller a bit )

Thanks for you comments


----------



## greenjar

George Farmer said:
			
		

> For a decent general purpose zoom I really rate the Sigma 17-70 OS.
> 
> It has a low minimum focusing distance so so makes it great for macro photography.  Really sharp and versatile, and great value.  I replaced mine with a Canon 24-105 and miss it to be honest!



Hi George - can I confirm, is this the correct link to the Sigma lens you've mentioned?

http://www.sigmalensreview.com/sigma1770osreview


----------



## George Farmer

That's the one.  

Most of these photos were taken it, although mine was non-OS - http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgefarm ... 770878506/


----------



## foxfish

I know you said you did not want second hand but how about a guaranteed ex display?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0596907080


----------



## greenjar

George Farmer said:
			
		

> That's the one.
> 
> Most of these photos were taken it, although mine was non-OS - http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgefarm ... 770878506/



Awsome photos George, thanks for the link.  I think I'm going to have to get me one of these   



			
				foxfish said:
			
		

> I know you said you did not want second hand but how about a guaranteed ex display?



Thanks for your msg Fox.  I've made up my mind though and settled on a new 550d body only, and lens as above.

The only difficult descision is when to order. I'm on holiday to France end of next week and would love to take the new gear with me, but it would kill me If it did'nt for some reason arrive in time and I know it's sat in a post office somewhere while I'm away.  Should probably wait till I'm back and then purchase....aaah dilemma dilemma


----------



## foxfish

You could see how much they cost in France or visit me & get 20% off (no VAT in Guernsey but no discount stores either so more like 10%)


----------



## JamesD

Worth noting the effect of the camera frame sensor. I believe on the 550d it is a crop of 1.6

Essentially the field of view is multiplied by the crop. A 17-70mm lens on the 550 will be equivalent to a 27-112mm.

In some instances the lens you have set your eyes on might be a little too long for a particular purpose.

Here is a video that makes sense of it 



Oh and yeah the 50mm f/1.8 are really awesome, they can transform your photography and get you thinking about things in different ways. Bokeh rules!


----------



## greenjar

Thanks for your post James.

This is not something I've thought about so I'm grateful to you for bringing this up, as its all a good part of the learning curve.  Found this article (link below) which explains it all clearly, in sensible layman terms (I think   )

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/crop_sensor_cameras_and_lenses.html

The only questions I have are simple novice one's like;  Is a full frame camera more desirable? or can you simply just bear in mind the relationship between the cropping factor and its impact on the lens's focal lengh & desired field of view?  would changes in depth of field, positive or negative, be that noticeable to a beginner like myself?

Ps - the 50mm is on my to buy list  

Thanks guys


----------



## Greenview

I think you will be fine with a crop sensor. I do not think that it will limit you in creative use of shallow depth of field either, the 50mm 1.8 will allow shallow enough depth of field. It is not easy to master though, as 'shallow depth of field' can easily turn into 'nothing in focus at all'! 

My advice would be to get the camera and one lens (the 50mm is great) and use it and practice. You will quickly see where the lens limits your photography and can then make the right decision over the next lens (I.e., wide-angle, macro, telephoto etc). It is important to note the different fields of view on different cameras, but you will soon get a feel for how each lens type behaves on your camera. 

 Enjoy, it is great fun.


----------



## JamesD

greenjar said:
			
		

> Thanks for your post James.
> 
> This is not something I've thought about so I'm grateful to you for bringing this up, as its all a good part of the learning curve.  Found this article (link below) which explains it all clearly, in sensible layman terms (I think   )
> 
> http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/crop_sensor_cameras_and_lenses.html
> 
> The only questions I have are simple novice one's like;  Is a full frame camera more desirable? or can you simply just bear in mind the relationship between the cropping factor and its impact on the lens's focal lengh & desired field of view?  would changes in depth of field, positive or negative, be that noticeable to a beginner like myself?
> 
> Ps - the 50mm is on my to buy list
> 
> Thanks guys



It is nothing to worry about really. It is just something to bare in mind while selecting camera lenses in the future. A lot of it can be cured by taking one step back! Some people however get it in their mind they need a certain lense for a certain situation go and buy it and then forget to take the crop into consideration rendering that lense unsuitable! 

Say if you wanted a general point and shoot zoom lense, most would probably recommend or say buy a 28-80mm. With a crop of 1.6 this lens is maybe a little too 'long' and something like a 18-55mm would be far more suitable.

Also if you wanted a mega zoom lense then you can probably get away with using a 55-200 rather than a 55-300. The 55-200 is likely have a lower f-stop which is better for lower light and for taking action shots. 

Full frame isnt really more desirable, they are usually huge and expensive. You just need to potentially be aware of what having a crop of 1.6 means when selecting lenses.


----------



## greenjar

Good stuff, thanks for the clarification - Interesting stuff all this  
Great to be getting involved in and learning a new hobby


----------



## George Farmer

You may be interested my favourite photography forum - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

There's some great pinned threads, some ideal for beginners.


----------



## JamesD

greenjar said:
			
		

> Good stuff, thanks for the clarification - Interesting stuff all this
> Great to be getting involved in and learning a new hobby



If you do get into the hobby one thing I would say is that probably one of the most important. Don't worry about the camera body too much, it is all about the lenses. 

It is better to invest in decent glass. You will be able to use the lenses with camera bodies in the future. If you begin to look at really really high end lenses and the sort of pictures you are able to capture with them are incredible. Of course it has a lot to do with the photographers understanding of their equipment, but I bet they would take Expensive glass over expensive camera body every single time.

A decent lense on a low end camera body will allow you to take much better pictures than using a really expensive camera body with a crappy lense!

Can you buy me a 400mm F2.8 AF-S VR nikon lense please?


----------



## greenjar

JamesD said:
			
		

> Can you buy me a 400mm F2.8 AF-S VR nikon lense please?



I'd love to do that for you.....If I had any money left......as you see, today is my Birthday and that can mean only one thing.....     

Decided to spoil myself with goodies referred to in the opening posts......Will open up pressies tonight and post a couple pics tommorrow.........

ahhhhh.....feel like a kid on Christmas day again


----------



## Steve Smith

I bought a 550D recently and I love it!  I need to save up some more for some decent glass, but out of the box it's a great camera   I've moved on from a 300D.

I experienced what James has said about decent glass being more important than an expensive body.  I had the opportunity to use John Starkey's 24 - 105mm canon L series lens on my 300D a while back, when some of us met up at Aquajardin, and the difference between the photos I took with that, and those I took with the stock canon 18-55mm lens was huge!


----------



## greenjar

SteveUK said:
			
		

> I bought a 550D recently and I love it!



I'm sure I will feel the same   

I did see your post and pics taken at Puzzlewood - pics and place look awesome - I would definitely like to make a visit there

............perhaps we could arrange a little photography outing around these parts.......I'm just down the road from you in Rugby

I 've bought a 50mm cannon prime lens based on the recommendations in my post, so keen to see how this works.  This will be my main lens for now while I spend my time focused on learning the camera functions and features.  I have also bought a cheap second hand Tamron 70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD Lens just to play around with until I know and learn more about lenses etc

I do hear what you saying about lenses and appreciate that you get what you pay for.......pity they can be so expensive


----------



## Steve Smith

Totally agree, it's very costly :S

I didn't realise you were local   Will definitely have to sort out something!  Drop me a PM if you want to sort out an excursion...  We'll have to see if anyone else local wants to join in 

Steve.


----------

