# Small community pair



## NanoJames (1 May 2013)

Hi guys
Recently my Dwarf Gourami passed away  so a space has opened up in my 60 litre community. It has some tetras, Corydoras and cherry barbs. I hope I amn't overstocked and would really rather not swap any fish but if I absolutely had to I may consider. The water is pretty much pristine, there is never Ammonia and rarely small amounts of nitrate. I can do tests for hardness, PH etc. I was thinking along the lines of Kribensis, Apistos or Rams but open for suggestions. The kribs may be to large for my tank but they are not the ones I like the most anyway. As I said though the water should be fine. I can feed live and frozen but I don't want to buy anything without verifying with the UKAPS community!
Cheers


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## stu_ (1 May 2013)

Personally i wouldn't keep Kribs in a 60L (60cm?) tank, plus if they breed they can get a bit tasty.
GBR's rarely seem to do well in anything other than soft water and will prefer warmer temps.
Depending on the numbers of the existing stock and water parameters maybe _Apistogramma Borellii ?_


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## NanoJames (1 May 2013)

stu_ said:


> Personally i wouldn't keep Kribs in a 60L (60cm?) tank, plus if they breed they can get a bit tasty. GBR's rarely seem to do well in anything other than soft water and will prefer warmer temps. Depending on the numbers of the existing stock and water parameters maybe Apistogramma Borellii ?


Cheers Stu! I wasn't too bothered about the Kribs anyway and yes it is a 60cm X 30CM X 30CM tank! Do you know anything about Bolivian Rams? I'll see if my LFS has _A. Borelli. _They are usually really good with cichlids so will make a visit and see their stock. I'll test water parameters tomorrow at some point...


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## stu_ (1 May 2013)

Take your time, there's no rush 
What have you got in there already ?


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## NanoJames (1 May 2013)

That's where I'm a little bit worried. I have some Neons, Rummynoses, Corydoras, Rosy Tetras and Cherry Barbs. I'm worried that I am overstocked. My water is good and I do about a 25 percent WC each week. I hope this is OK as I really like the dwarf cichlids! As I said, I would rather not have to take any fish out but if I absolutely had to I would possibly consider. It depends what my dad says too!


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## stu_ (1 May 2013)

NanoJames said:


> That's where I'm a little bit worried. I have some Neons, Rummynoses, Corydoras, Rosy Tetras and Cherry Barbs. I'm worried that I am overstocked


Ahh.Sounds like you already know the answer to this question.
For the record, i keep my Borelli in 60cm with a 7 Red Phantoms plus assorted Oto's & Amano's


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## NanoJames (1 May 2013)

Yeah, I thought it might be a problem. That's a real shame. Was looking forward to getting a Apisto...


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## dw1305 (2 May 2013)

Hi all,


NanoJames said:


> Do you know anything about Bolivian Rams?


Nice fish, but too big, and difficult to sex.


> Yeah, I thought it might be a problem. That's a real shame. Was looking forward to getting a Apisto...


New tank, 2' with just _Apistogramma_ and some Pencils, job done.

cheers Darrel


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## AverageWhiteBloke (2 May 2013)

The problem with most dwarf cichlids is most fair better when they have a harem of females to pick from which the females then also need their own space and a bigger tank with lots of cover. With two it's lottery on whether the pair will get on. Putting two together doesn't always give you a pair, I have a pair of kribs I raised from eggs in the same community tank. Although people will say don't have two males in the same tank I find it's ok as long as they have always been together from birth. This also applies to Siamese fighters which I have kept many males together in one tank to people's amazement. It's when you separate them and put them back together the problems start. Anyway, I digress. The Kribs I have, I kept two that seemed to get on and gave the rest away, they actually spawned and raised fry for about a week but the fry went missing (probably sucked into filter) and they have never got on since then. Although they once were paired the and the female has a rounded belly and in full colour they never fully accept each other. Going so far with a mating dance then a war breaks out. Fortunately I have a 30gall so when they kick off they can avoid each other. In a smaller tank someone would get hurt.
Another problem cichlids have is re-organising your tank. Fine leaved carpeting plants get some stick especially when food falls into it. My kribs will rip it apart trying to get the food out.
TBH I'll be glad when they've gone so I can get some shrimp in and stop having to repair my hair grass once a week! But hey you can't pick your family. I think some of the Borreli's like a harem. Kribs a bit too big and aggressive and Blue rams are a major league PITA unless you have access to pure water which needs changed often due to mineral build up of dosing EI.
Can't beat a nice Siamese fighter if your looking for a character fish in a small tank I think.


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## dw1305 (2 May 2013)

Hi all,


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> With two it's lottery on whether the pair will get on.


 Definitely true, Kribs can be quite nasty. _Apistogramma_ don't tend to rip your tank up, although they do sift sand (they are geophagine). They all only form pairs while breeding, there isn't a permanent pair bond.


AverageWhiteBloke said:


> I think some of the Borreli's like a harem


_A. borellii_ are pretty tame, and you can keep them as pairs or harems, but as a general rule the larger the males are, and the more dimorphic the sexes, the better they are as harems rather than pairs. Out of the harem formers_ A. borellii, A. hongsloi, A. macmasteri_  and _A. cacatuoides _are possible as pairs in a heavily planted tank, _A. agassizii, A._ "Pebas"/"Papagei" and _A. trifasciata _much less successful, and A."Blue-steel" is also very aggressive.

The pair forming species (_A. baenschi, A. panduro_ etc) definitely need to choose partners.

Have a look at "ApistoBob's" web site if you want some information on Apisto's etc , it is pretty useful and the whole site is worth a read:  <Dwarf Cichlid Aquarium Care>.

There are also 2 good forums, Apistogramma forums <Apistogramma.com> and the BCA forum <British Cichlid Association • The place to talk about the Cichlids in our Aquaria>

cheers Darrel


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## NanoJames (2 May 2013)

Cheers for the answers folks


dw1305 said:


> New tank, 2' with just Apistogramma and some Pencils, job done.


If only it was that easy Darrel!
Brilliant answer with an abundance of points in there AWB! Thanks and I will have a look thorough your post in more depth.
Will definitely be doing more research. If I had to get rid of any fish what ones would it have to be? I really don't want to get rid of any...


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