# The big return - help needed



## sh4d0w (4 Jul 2020)

Hello to each and every one of you.

I am new here, hence being post #1 - ha.

My name is Martin, 15 miles out of Manchester and lucky enough to have the Abyss 5 minutes away.

I have always enjoyed fish keeping and in the past kept both fresh and salt water aquariums, my last being salt. We sold up when we moved houses about 5 years ago. I would like to say that things are calming down now... they are not! still a building site. Anyway, its time i got back into the hobby.

I am here today looking for help, advice and inspiration on A Planted Aquascape with a real mixture of plants - we want bright and active fish so likely to be a tank of tetras and rummy noses with some fillers - really am open to suggestions etc.

We are about to have an extension drawn up and plans submitted to LA, the tank will eventually be moved into another room so we could class this as a dummy run for my first scape BUT ideally i would like to try and be happy first time and worry about the weight and moving later down the line.

So, here is what i have just bought:

Eheim Incpiria 330
Eheim pro 4 600 (was a toss up with the FX6 but couldn’t be bothered with the maintenance set back on the fx) i will get some BioHome ultimate and new sponges for the filter
2x Eheim Quick Release double taps - for either side of my UV - Do i need these... really? £30 each i can take back for credit.
JBL pro 500 inline heater
JBL m502 co2 kit
JBL in-line diffuser
Tmc vectron 600 uv
2x JBL volcano mineral (18l)
3x JBL Aqua basis plus (15l)
1x JBL mando (21l)
2x Juwel Stone Granite 3D backgrounds

I only went into the shop for a "look" and came out a lot of cash down, oops. So, i dont even know if what ive come away with is the best for needs really, i guess that is the first question, should i take anything back to change it?

related to my first aforementioned question, i dont think i want A 3D background, i like the look of some of the tanks i have seen where you can see the glass back, what are your thoughts on this? for NOW the tank is sat in an internal window area and can be viewed from all 4 sides - if i opt for the background, can it be added later down the line?

I plan on building up some raised sections with the Volcano min followed by a layer of basis plus and topped off with natural mando - am i on the right path with this?

the Eheim tank comes with the two LED lights but no controller - do you think i would benefit from the controller? it is an extra £110 but will allow me to set sunrise and sunset and moon lighting etc.

UV - I have always had UV on my salt'ys but never fresh - is this required/beneficial ?

Finally, for now. my M502 kit... should i have spent the extra money and gone with the M503 and taken onboard the computer? - i have the chance to pay the difference and swap over.

What else do i need to think about guys? Have i missed anything?

I know i need testing kits and chems etc, i just need to go over what i have here before i commit, JBL the way to go for testing?


Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this and even bigger thanks to those who take their time to respond 
My setup:



















Hoping for something like this:


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

Excellent aquarium choice
100cm x 60cm footprint gives lots of room for aquascaping, though the 65cm height requires some thought in terms of lighting re substrate PAR

Look at Filipe Oliveira YouTube channel as he has more tall tanks showcased than most, and includes lighting etc details in the video description (also often answers specific comment questions in regards hardware, lighting schedule etc ... though most of this you can find in some of his more philosophical or tutorial style videos

https://m.youtube.com/user/FaaoStudio/videos

(and please subscribe/like the videos (if you do) as like many professional aquascapers he has been hit hard by the lockdowns)

There are a few outstanding Eheim aquarium journals on ukaps


sh4d0w said:


> 2x Eheim Quick Release double taps - for either side of my UV - Do i need these... really? £30 each i can take back for credit.


I’d skip the UV entirely, it will just slow down your filter and while it may be nice for occasional use, such as fighting “green water”, very few planted aquariums run with UV ... though Green Aqua does run them on some of their gallery display tanks - again the system details will be included in the video descriptions
Buy several more plants instead!

https://m.youtube.com/c/GreenAquaShop/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBIQ8JMBGAEiEwiz_a3qvbLqAhVGwcQKHddnDyA=





sh4d0w said:


> i dont think i want A 3D background, i like the look of some of the tanks i have seen where you can see the glass back, what are your thoughts on this?


Yes, skip the 3D background - it will just limit your scape and tend to look artificial unless blended in very well

I’m less familiar with JBL soil products, I’d switch to Tropica as it is one of the best in terms of maintaining its structure over time, and through rescapes
(It’s obviously an excellent plant growing medium, as are several other brands)
If you love the JBL, then obviously stick with that
You can easily adjust nutrient level of aquarium soil substrates by adding various root tabs (again Filipe Oliveira discusses this in his fertilization and rescape VLOG videos) ... I’d add these later (though the Tropica Nutrition Capsules do break down very slowly and can be introduced at tank setup - Jurijs mit JS demonstrates this in several setup videos)

https://m.youtube.com/c/GreenAquaShop/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBIQ8JMBGAEiEwiz_a3qvbLqAhVGwcQKHddnDyA=




sh4d0w said:


> the Eheim tank comes with the two LED lights but no controller - do you think i would benefit from the controller? it is an extra £110 but will allow me to set sunrise and sunset and moon lighting etc.


Light control is nice, but given the 60cm front to back width, I’d add additional lighting - your linked scape has quite even light distribution, and a fair amount of watts ... ADA Solar RGB so also very nice spectrum for viewing plants and fish - glad you like this tank, I couldn't believe how many commenters engaged in the Shame Game over the owner’s fish choices (a Private Client that generously shared his aquarium)

I don’t know exactly what is included in your Incpiria kit, but suspect these are relatively low intensity LEDS (though I might be surprised  )


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> JBL m502 co2 kit


I believe this includes a 500g refillable CO2 cylinder - you’ll want a back cylinder for immediate replacement when this runs out - if you have hard water, you may find that a larger cylinder is much more economic (refills tend to begin with a base fee, and then a surcharge that varies with gas amount) 

Again you may find that a CO2 system from someone such as CO2 Art is more economic (though the JBL does look very nice, there’s little technical information on the individual components, eg, dual gauge vs dual stage regulator, needle valve, solenoid etc) 

OTOH if you owned this already, then it will certainly provide decent CO2


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> the tank will eventually be moved into another room



Wheels 

Mark Evans ukaps Journals 
eg, Post #735
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/120-x-55-x-55-journal-finished.17974/page-37


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

Note that Green Aqua plants v.e.r.y heavily from the beginning in their scape videos, George Farmer, Jurijs mit JS, Filipe Oliveira etc all allow more room for plants to grow into their space
(in a moderate - high tech system, you’ll see substantial growth within a couple weeks)



sh4d0w said:


> JBL volcano mineral


is perfect for adding height to the substrate - porous, well aerated substrate base
You can leave this free form or place in net bags (with zips for a “clean” close) - more durable  (than tights)


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> Finally, for now. my M502 kit... should i have spent the extra money and gone with the M503 and taken onboard the computer?


Again I’d spend the difference on plants and hardscape (stone, wood)
- though you can go foraging of course, but then you’ll want to check that both are aquarium safe (especially if you want to keep shrimp)

(It looks as if Horizon Aquatics is the nearest aquascaping shop if you’re up for the drive, though most will work with clients to come up with suitable stone/wood/plants etc, check out Riverwood Aquatics, Scaped Nature, Aquarium Gardens of course (also perhaps @london Dragon’s source) ... check the Sponsor Forum )


I did a quick check but couldn’t determine how this works or what accuracy/precision for the pH probe and meter


----------



## rebel (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> Abyss 5 minutes away.


HOTDAIM! That is one abyss I don't mind living near!


----------



## sh4d0w (4 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Excellent aquarium choice
> 100cm x 60cm footprint gives lots of room for aquascaping, though the 65cm height requires some thought in terms of lighting re substrate PAR
> 
> Look at Filipe Oliveira YouTube channel as he has more tall tanks showcased than most, and includes lighting etc details in the video description (also often answers specific comment questions in regards hardware, lighting schedule etc ... though most of this you can find in some of his more philosophical or tutorial style videos
> ...



Wow, this is what i like, real honest help with time and dedication to helping a newbie, a real nice welcoming to the forum and hobby - Thank you very much.

So i took the 3D background back and UV filter too, funniest thing ever though, i was then given the same UV filter, brand new - it was a replacement a friend got off TMC but never used as he bought a new one. - so should i plumb it in for the IF/WHEN or sell it for a quick £?

I will certainly spend some time going over the suggested channels, i have now started to build up my substrate and added some wood for the looks planning, i will start a tank journal i think - its more a learning curve for me at this point.  My LFS didnt have much of the tropica in stock so i kept the JBL Pro gear. 

The LED's included are "Apparently" fantastic:
1x25,9, 1x29,5 watt - LED-lighting – 1x powerLED+ daylight; 1x powerLED+ plants
https://www.eheim.com/en_GB/products/technology/lighting/powerled  - have a look at let me know your thoughts. 

once more, thank you


----------



## sh4d0w (4 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> I believe this includes a 500g refillable CO2 cylinder - you’ll want a back cylinder for immediate replacement when this runs out - if you have hard water, you may find that a larger cylinder is much more economic (refills tend to begin with a base fee, and then a surcharge that varies with gas amount)
> 
> Again you may find that a CO2 system from someone such as CO2 Art is more economic (though the JBL does look very nice, there’s little technical information on the individual components, eg, dual gauge vs dual stage regulator, needle valve, solenoid etc)
> 
> OTOH if you owned this already, then it will certainly provide decent CO2



Yup i have the JBL CO2 kit already, well since buying it with my tank, the refills are very cheap. 500G is correct, i will look to buy a second tank like you suggested, however i can be drive for a refill and be back home in 15 minutes. does that change matters?


----------



## sh4d0w (4 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Wheels
> 
> Mark Evans ukaps Journals
> eg, Post #735
> https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/120-x-55-x-55-journal-finished.17974/page-37





Well i never, however, we have very. VERY thick pile carpet in our lounge, maybe 30MM so any sort of wheel will be out the question.


----------



## sh4d0w (4 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Again I’d spend the difference on plants and hardscape (stone, wood)
> - though you can go foraging of course, but then you’ll want to check that both are aquarium safe (especially if you want to keep shrimp)
> 
> (It looks as if Horizon Aquatics is the nearest aquascaping shop if you’re up for the drive, though most will work with clients to come up with suitable stone/wood/plants etc, check out Riverwood Aquatics, Scaped Nature, Aquarium Gardens of course (also perhaps @london Dragon’s source) ... check the Sponsor Forum )
> ...



Once again, you really have shocked me with just how helpful you have been - thanks dude.

that is one heck of a drive, that is for sure  

I will sack the PH Computer off and just keep manual for now, IF i get the bug as much as i want too then i can always add some tech later down the line?


----------



## hypnogogia (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> however i can be drive for a refill and be back home in 15 minutes. does that change matters?


Always best to have a spare, as the LFS might one day be out of them.  Also, a 500g bottle isn’t going to last long on a 300l tank.  I’d consider getting a 2Kg bottle, or a fire co2 fire extinguisher, which is much cheaper. (£28 vs £140 for a JBL 2Kg bottle).  
Regarding the UV, by all means keep it should you ever need it, but don’t plumb it in just now as it will reduce the flow of your filter.
I’m sure the eheim lights are good (most eheim kit is) but 60W for your tank doesn’t sound like much.  You might want to get another one or even two lights...depending on the plants you want to have and whether you are going high tech.


----------



## sparkyweasel (4 Jul 2020)

Welcome!


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> Well i never, however, we have very. VERY thick pile carpet in our lounge, maybe 30MM so any sort of wheel will be out the question.


Lay down some card or board and drive (or slide) away 
(bit slow if you only have a couple 100cm sections but much easier than carrying )


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Always best to have a spare, as the LFS might one day be out of them. Also, a 500g bottle isn’t going to last long on a 300l tank. I’d consider getting a 2Kg bottle, or a fire co2 fire extinguisher, which is much cheaper. (£28 vs £140 for a JBL 2Kg bottle).


Be careful with this as there’s a warning in the JBL FAQ re warranty voided by unsuitable CO2 bottles  (contact JBL for some clarity) 

As for the UV, either way  (it’s a gift so I’d likely keep it for a rainy day)


----------



## alto (4 Jul 2020)

This seems to have been run with kit lighting


(note included link to the set up video)

I’d still be adding another Eheim Powerled+ ... or perhaps not  - though this is likely an exceptional experience unless one finds many such threads
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/eheim-powerled-with-wifi-controller.55475/

If you want to keep the cover, expanding kit lighting or using branded lighting is usually the easiest path


----------



## alto (5 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> A Planted Aquascape with a real mixture of plants - we want bright and active fish so likely to be a tank of tetras and rummy noses with some fillers - really am open to suggestions etc.



For fish ideas, you might look at the ADG (homepage) gallery, they have some lovely combinations and outstanding photos (of course irl you won’t get these perfect “shots”)

https://aquariumdesigngroup.com/

If you’d gone with the 120cm incpirio, I’d consider some of the bigger rainbows - like that Bosemani, Madagascar, and smaller rainbow (Celebes or furcata or ???) setup in the last gallery photo 
With 100 cm aquarium length, I’d stay a bit smaller (rainbowfish are active and appreciate the swimming length, there are many smaller rainbows but they tend to be more subtle in color ... obviously you could add some brilliant live bearers for touches of color (I just like themed tanks))

Use Seriously Fish species profiles to check fish requirements/preferences (some profiles are more thoughtful than others)
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/bedotia-madagascarensis/

As this is a tall tank, some taller fish tend to look good - like those striped angels and discus  (ADG gallery) but then you need to plan the rest of the tank around them (at least to some degree)

There are many barbs that you could combine for a bright, active display and could include some of the bigger barbs as “focal fish”  (again I just prefer not to mix barbs and cardinal tetras  ... fish from different continents  often (?) miss behaviour clues from tankmates)


----------



## sh4d0w (9 Jul 2020)

hypnogogia said:


> Always best to have a spare, as the LFS might one day be out of them.  Also, a 500g bottle isn’t going to last long on a 300l tank.  I’d consider getting a 2Kg bottle, or a fire co2 fire extinguisher, which is much cheaper. (£28 vs £140 for a JBL 2Kg bottle).
> Regarding the UV, by all means keep it should you ever need it, but don’t plumb it in just now as it will reduce the flow of your filter.
> I’m sure the eheim lights are good (most eheim kit is) but 60W for your tank doesn’t sound like much.  You might want to get another one or even two lights...depending on the plants you want to have and whether you are going high tech.



Thank you for this.

I Love gadgets and messing with things so i am sure it will be a constantly evolving tank over the years, a money pit. ha.

I am looking for local fire extinguisher suppliers now as it has been confirmed that it is a straight swap onto my JBL Regulator. 

Just trying to decide if i take back the M502 to swap for the 503 (with the computer) as per my other post. 

I will see how things go with the current, two, lights and perhaps add the third if things show signs of struggle.


----------



## sh4d0w (9 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Lay down some card or board and drive (or slide) away
> (bit slow if you only have a couple 100cm sections but much easier than carrying )


bit of a tough one this is now, the tank is filled and running with no wheels, oops. maybe once it has been moved to the new location, whenever that might be ill do the wheels.


----------



## sh4d0w (9 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Be careful with this as there’s a warning in the JBL FAQ re warranty voided by unsuitable CO2 bottles  (contact JBL for some clarity)
> 
> As for the UV, either way  (it’s a gift so I’d likely keep it for a rainy day)



I am not sure JBL will ever know if i swap CO2 source, looks like a direct swap. 

UV is tucked away now, - when would i need to use this?


----------



## sh4d0w (9 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> This seems to have been run with kit lighting
> 
> 
> (note included link to the set up video)
> ...




For now i will see how it goes with stock lights, i don want to loose the lid... cats will be in!


----------



## rubadudbdub (9 Jul 2020)

alto said:


> Switch to tropica...


Have you just filled the tank with water or set it up?  Two of my friends have used manado and found it quite light when planting.  If you search on this forum you'll find posts about it.   It might be something to consider if you've not opened the bags yet.   

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/jbl-manado-too-light-does-it-settle-down.42114/


----------



## sh4d0w (10 Jul 2020)

rubadudbdub said:


> Have you just filled the tank with water or set it up?  Two of my friends have used manado and found it quite light when planting.  If you search on this forum you'll find posts about it.   It might be something to consider if you've not opened the bags yet.
> 
> https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/jbl-manado-too-light-does-it-settle-down.42114/



Its setup.

I wish I saw this before, that Manado is rubbish - fish farts near it and it will be like a sandstorm. soon as there is any agitation its moving, sooooo light. I hope it does settle down over time, plants are indeed a nightmare to keep in.


----------



## hypnogogia (10 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> I wish I saw this before, that Manado is rubbish - fish farts near it and it will be like a sandstorm. soon as there is any agitation its moving, sooooo light. I hope it does settle down over time, plants are indeed a nightmare to keep in.


It does settle down, and plants root in it really well.  My cories love it as it is so soft.  Do be careful using a magnet cleaner as some of it seems to be magnetic too.


----------



## alto (10 Jul 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> plants are indeed a nightmare to keep in.


I would strongly suggest separating your foreground plants into smaller portions, for better coverage, and (usually) quicker spread 
(small portions placed 1-2cm apart will usually fill in fairly quickly, these may also stay down better)

I would also add many more plants - you’ve set up a system designed to grow plants, but have added few plants - someone (most commonly known as Algae) will accept the open invitation 

Obviously pot versions of plants will be easier to sink deep enough into the Manado to prevent up-floating


----------



## Melll (6 Aug 2020)

How is the tank coming on?


----------



## sh4d0w (6 Aug 2020)

I am glad you asked.... taken a huge turn for the worse this week. ill be back shortley with an update  

I am going to write a journal for the site.


----------



## Melll (6 Aug 2020)

sh4d0w said:


> I am glad you asked.... taken a huge turn for the worse this week. ill be back shortley with an update
> 
> I am going to write a journal for the site.




I look forward to reading it 👍


----------



## Wolf6 (29 Oct 2020)

Any updates? I'm curious how the manado performed in the end


----------

