# Green hair algae only on Rotala Wallichii



## ghostsword (19 Apr 2010)

Hello,

I got a small issue on my tank, it is only affecting the Rotala Wallichii. 

Got hair algae strands growing in between the stems, gluing them together. It is odd.

The Rotala Wallichii is not growing as fast as the other plants I got, but not dying either, just in limbo.

I dose easycarbo, EI, also suplement po4 and iron. Got presurised CO2 and one Koralia 2 on the tank, it is a 120L tank.

CO2 drop check is at light green/yellow, using a 4dhk solution to add the methilene blue, so I am safely assuming that I got enough CO2 on the water. 

What could it be?

Thanks.


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## Ajm200 (19 Apr 2010)

if it is just in one part of the tank. Are the stems overcrowded or have you got a dead spot in the flow there?


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## ghostsword (20 Apr 2010)

I got 5 stems per pot..  it may be overcrowded.. ...


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## ceg4048 (21 Apr 2010)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> CO2 drop check is at light green/yellow, using a 4dhk solution to add the methilene blue, so I am safely assuming that I got enough CO2 on the water.
> 
> What could it be?


Well, recall that hair algae is a strictly CO2 related algae, so if we could ask Mr. wallichii his opinion, he would say that the assumption is not valid. Plants bunched together will effectively block flow locally, so inside the bunch there is likely to be localized CO2 starvation. This occurs very often with mosses, which tend to be tightly packed and very dense. Loosen the bunch and give each stem some elbow room for flow to move through. This helps to keep the local CO2 concentration at acceptable levels.

Also, is your dropchecker light green/yellow at lights on? If not, try turning on the gas even earlier until this occurs and you can then turn it off earlier as well.

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (21 Apr 2010)

Actually this started to happen when I decided to stop the CO2 in the evening, and turning the air pump on.

I will leave the CO2 all night now and turning the air pump a couple of hours at night, to give the fish a break.

I have also splited the stems to give them some more room. Will see what happens..


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## Mark Evans (22 Apr 2010)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Actually this started to happen when I decided to stop the CO2 in the evening, and turning the air pump on.
> 
> I will leave the CO2 all night now and turning the air pump a couple of hours at night, to give the fish a break.



IMO/E It's not wise to run co2 all night. The biological content of the filter and substrate need o2 at lights out...so do plants 

what I'd do is, turn co2 off at night, but switch it on 3 maybe 4 hours before lights on. from your above statement, it sounds like co2 fluctuations when lights are on.

A well placed korolia can give the best gas exchange in the world at night.


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## ghostsword (22 Apr 2010)

Thanks,

I will shutdown the CO2 for just a couple of hours at night, and get it up before lights on. 

I have a Koralia right above the difuser pointing down, so that the co2 bubbles are going downwards across the tank.


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## ceg4048 (22 Apr 2010)

ghostsword said:
			
		

> Actually this started to happen when I decided to stop the CO2 in the evening, and turning the air pump on.


Here is the problem with air pump; When bubbles break the surface they actually accelerate the out-gassing of the extra Oxygen that your plants worked so hard to saturate the water with during the photoperiod. The bubbles also outgass the level of CO2 , of course, but this also means that the level of CO2 at lights on is not as high as it could be. You then need a higher injection rate to get the proper levels up, or as Mark says, you need to turn the CO2 on much earlier prior to lights on.

In our systems, the plants don't really need as much length of time of high CO2 as is commonly thought. There are many out there that run the CO2 right up to lights out and this is completely unnecessary. The most important time of the photoperiod for CO2 is the beginning. That's when hay is made. That's when the plants are the most susceptible to poor CO2. My CO2 goes off 4 or 5 hours prior to lights off. The tail part of the photoperiod is the least important, so you can turn the gas off and the plants are quite happy using the residual levels until lights out. I never need to use pumps, but of course I don't have high stocking levels either. This is one reason why many think that they have good CO2 levels and yet they still get CO2 related algae. So they start to doubt the cause of a CO2 related algae.
 "Oh, my dropchecker is lime green!, My fish are gasping!" they say. But it's the timing of the CO2 that they have gotten wrong, so the get the worst of all worlds - CO2 related algae AND uncomfortable fish...

The worst part of the day for fish and other critters is probably in the early morning. They've had to compete with the plants and bacteria for Oxygen all night and there is still residual CO2 in the water. By shifting the gas schedule "to the left" so to speak, you can reduce the discomfort while still optimizing the CO2 availability at the most critical time.

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (22 Apr 2010)

> In our systems, the plants don't really need as much length of time of high CO2 as is commonly thought. There are many out there that run the CO2 right up to lights out and this is completely unnecessary. The most important time of the photoperiod for CO2 is the beginning. That's when hay is made. That's when the plants are the most susceptible to poor CO2. My CO2 goes off 4 or 5 hours prior to lights off.



Thanks Ceg, I am learning once more.  

So from 0700 to 1900, for example, the co2 would come on at 0400 and off at 1600? The CO2 would build up in the tank allowing to carry on being available to the plants until lights off, when they are consuming oxigen and releasing co2 for the rest of the night?

So, now the question is this, would a air pump be actually needed? Obviously depending on stocking levels and observation, 3 hours instead of 7 be enough to have the air pump on. 

Thanks once again.


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## ceg4048 (23 Apr 2010)

Well, once again, each tank is different. The bio-mass is different, the consumption different. I've found that I don't need it. I used to get up super early in the morning to see if the fauna were uncomfortable or labored, but I saw no signs of distress. Other tanks may be problematic and may require a pump. Again, this is not a condemnation. I'm only saying that you can cause more problems than you solve if you just _assume_ that you need a pump. 

Clearly, you started getting hair algae as a result of using it when you might not have needed to use a pump in the first place. If the fauna are not distressed then simplify your life by deleting it. If the fauna are in distress, try shifting the gas injection scheduled as you have suggested to see if this alleviates the distress. If it doesn't, then you've run out of options and you'd have to use the pump. It's just the way I prioritize my troubleshooting and problem resolution. If i can avoid the use of a mechanical implement to solve a problem then that's a better choice. Too many contraptions complicate life, introduces more failure modes, and obscures root cause analysis, know what I mean? I don't want to make it seem like I'm bashing air pumps. I just prefer organic solutions, that's all.  

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (23 Apr 2010)

I completely know what you mean.. 

One of the beauties of the planted tank hobby is the ability to control all aspects of it, of observe and act upon the observations.

My problems started when the air pump was placed on a timer, before was 24/7, same as with the CO2.

Have now stopped the air pump and will see the effects during the week.

Many thanks for the help.


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## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

I am so loosing the battle on this one..  Cannot get rid of the algae on the plants, only on these is the green hair algae holding on, in thin strands.   

I must be doing something wrong, but should I keep on and risk spreading the algae to the rest of the tank, or take the plants out?

I am thinking of transferring the RW to my emmersed setup, and try to grow them as emmersed, before they actually die of.

I am disappointed, but it seems that I have met my match..  Maybe one day I will setup a tank just for them and try again.


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## ceg4048 (5 May 2010)

Well this is one of the scenarios where Excel/Easycarbo makes short work of. Some people don't like to use it because of the toxicity issues but it does help to fill in the gaps. Fixing the carbon or flow shortfall doesn't always get rid of the algae that is there because algae like CO2 as well. If you don't want to use the silver bullet to kill the werewolf then blackouts and subsequent injection rate increase are the only other options.

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (5 May 2010)

Actually I may try that..  I can dip them on a Easycarbo solution.. 

I do have it and dose on the 2galon nano, and actually used it previously on my java fern with very good result to spot dose some black algae a while back.

Should have thought of that..  .. 

Going to leave the plants on a evening soak with some easycarbo now, as I got them potted, they are easy to move. 

Good tip mate!!!


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## ghostsword (11 May 2010)

Have dipped them for 24 hours on a half easy carbo half water solution and the algae is gone. But so are he leaves of the plant..  I still have it on the tank, hoping for a reborn.. 

I think that I really messed it up now..


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## ceg4048 (11 May 2010)

Yes, Gluteraldehyde is a powerful toxin. That's why hospitals use it to sterilize operating room instruments. I also don't like the idea of removing a plant from the tank to sterilize it. First, the substance you are using is toxic to the plant. Then, the roots which use tiny hairs as nutrient interface with the sediment particles, and which take a few weeks to develop have been violated, and when you return the plant to the sediment (assuming the plant survives the treatment) they are at a distinct disadvantage because they must now develop these root hairs all over again.

Although it's of little consolation, it's probably better for you to see the results of such an abominable practice. Now you will have no doubts. In general, things that are bad for algae are also bad for plants. Excel is the only silver bullet we have to kill the werewolf but it must be used wisely and with respect. See the movie "Van Helsing".

The only things that happen quickly in a tank are bad things. It's better to spray a dilute mixture on the plants during a water change or to systematically use higher daily dosages while removing the hair with a toothbrush. Another technique is to shut down the filter and to use a syringe to send the Excel over the plants and allow it to drift down into the plant bed. After 5 minutes the filtration can be resumed.

Cheers,


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## ghostsword (11 May 2010)

Thanks Ceg.. I removed the plant from the tank, it was trully dead..  

I will try Rotala Wallichii another time, it is actually nice to see a plant that I cannot grow. Obviously flow was the issue on my tank, I got plenty CO2 and dose heavily. The tank is full of plants, so maybe shade was also an issue for the plant.

Learning is the best part of the hobby and I welcome it with open arms. 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Cheers,


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