# 284L low tech with dry start



## Bon MotMot (19 Jun 2019)

I've had planted tanks for years but aquascaping is new for me and so is keeping an online journal but here goes...

I currently am setting up a 110L that was broken down for 3 or 4 years, but has now become my practice tank as I got my hands on a 284L (75g). This is the biggest tank I have ever had, so now the real fun begins since I will be setting it up from scratch and have a lot of decisions to make. I'll fill in and update the stats as the tank develops.

*Tank*
Marineland 122 x 46 x 53 cm  284L

*Substrate*
CaribSea Eco-complete planted aquarium substrate
CaribSea Super Natural coarse sand
Tropica Aquarium Soil regular and powder
*
Lighting*
Two Finnex 24/7 CC 48"  (92 watts combined)
*
Filtration*
Oase BioMaster Thermo 600
Oase BioMaster 600
*
Plants*
Gratiola viscidula
Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo'
Staurogyne repens
Spiky moss
Fissidens fontanus
Riccardia chamedryfolia
Hydrocotyle tripartite
Lilaeopsis Mauritius
Marsilea angustifolia
Helanthium tennellum
Eleocharis parvula
*
Critters*
Amano shrimp
Nerite snails


I'm still trying to get together all of the substrate and some more hardscape. I thought rocks would be easier to come by on the cheap, but nope. Our natural rocks in Florida are limestone, and the garden stores don't have the right sizes. I should have all my materials together by the weekend and can play around with layout.

Cheers, Michelle

* 


 *


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## Bon MotMot (19 Jun 2019)

I spent the morning adding new plants to the 110L which I set up 10 days ago, and I'll have another order arriving by Friday. Tried superglue gel to attach plants to the wood which worked well for the Buce but not so good for the mini Bolbitis -I glued more of them to myself rather than the wood. Also trying to figure out how to plant a carpet so of course in my ignorance I have to pick HC Cuba. That stuff is sooo tiny and was hard to get to stay put; I'm fairly certain it will all be clogging my filter intake by tomorrow. Going to try a dry start for the carpet plants in the big tank, and that also means I can spread out the costs a little since I won't need a filter immediately, and can postpone decisions about whether or not to add CO2.


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## Zeus. (19 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> Oase Biomaster Thermo 350



Flow Rate: 1100 liters / hour - for 280l tank a flow/output in a high tech tank a x10 tank size to filter output is advisable if planning CO2 where it comes from doesnt matter eg filter or powerheads etc

You didnt meantion what filter you have on the 110L tank

Whats your plans for substrate for the 280l ?

What Ferts you planning? - DIY EI ferts are the cheapest 

Your 110litre doesnt seem to have any Aquasoil (AS) just gravel what ferts are you using/planning

I have four Kessil 160 tuna suns on my 500l plus six 28w T5 tubes 

If your planning MC in you 280l with that depth think you will need CO2 and good flow/tank turnover IMO/IME as getting good flow at the carpet level is more important than enough light. Low flow leads to elongation between the leaf nodes so the MC will reach up for better CO2. I have a little MC in my carpet of MHG and micro swords light is low where the MC is due to the carpet around it but it stays compact as CO2/flow is good


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## Bon MotMot (19 Jun 2019)

Thanks, Zeus! This is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for.

The 110 has a AquaClear 50 hanging filter and just gravel; the same gravel the tank had in its former life as a very low-tech heavily planted setup with a few livebearers and tetras. I put CaribSea planted aquarium substrate in the 284 with coarse sand or fine gravel as a cap layer, it is supposed to have nutrients and other good stuff for plants but was less than half the price of the AS from Tropica or ADA.


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## alto (19 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> CaribSea planted aquarium substrate


If by this you mean, Eco Complete, this is a completely different sort of substrate than the Aquarium Soils (Tropica, ADA, Prodibio, Seachem Aquasolum (in my area Tropica comes in much lower cost re distribution network)
Tropica, ADA etc knew what they were doing when developing these substrates - plants grow extremely well in them 
Obviously other substrates work as well, but growth will be different 

Not sure why you would “cap” Eco Complete 

You do need to add some nutrients to the EC - Filipe Oliveira demonstrates the use of Seachem Flourish tabs in this rescape video 
Depending on your keenness, you could “roll back” the substrate layer and add Tropica Nutrition Capsules - Jurijs mit JS opens and sprinkle the fine “beads” (sorry not sure which video)

You could also add a nutrient rich base layer such as Tropica Growth Substrate (or similar but can’t think of an alternative that’s available in the US ... Dennerle has a good range of aquarium substrates, including a base layer, soils, gravels and sands but no idea how widely available they might be)

Note that the tabs and capsules are slow release nutrients, the enriched base substrates are instantly available 

EC itself has a high CEC, so like Seachem Flourite, can bind and release nutrients (the Aquarium Soils do this as well) but is in itself not a bioavailable substrate (which is what the Soils are)
Water column fertilization is then very important - initially I suggest Tropica Specialized and Premium while establishing plants, then switch over to your own mix (if that’s your preference) 
Of course if you’re one of those green thumb aquarists, anything will work  

(I’ve used EC (& other substrates) in several tanks over the years, before Tropica AS became available)


Carib Sea also now markets an Aquarium Soil product (not sure which product they are referring to as


> without the muddy texture and crumbling often seen with other brands.


*Samurai Soil*

I like Carib Sea, their customer service has always been outstanding, but that comment is a blast from the past 
(though possibly there are some old such Aquarium Soils still languishing on dusty shelves  )

On a 120cm tank, easiest way to provide even, good circulation is with two filters, set up in diagonal opposition 
Left side - intake at back corner, outflow at front corner
Right side  - outflow at back, intake at front 
Begin with this arrangement, and adjust depending upon hardscape
As you’re considering Oase, I’d look at 2 x 600’s 

(Most garden or landscape sources, you need to break rock - beware of (very) sharp edges if you go this route) 

Lighting
2 Kessil 160’s can work well on a 36” (90cm) x 45cm x 53cm (I’ve old Oceanic Showtanks) but the water column height does limit substrate PAR to “moderate” rather than “high”, eg, I’d you want to easily grow compact MC, they work fine 

Unless you’re planning a smaller planting area than the footprint of your tank, I’d strongly recommend 2 x 360’s (or 360X if you’re a red plant fan) or 3 x 160 (note as you reduce light intensity, light “fall” also narrows, so take this into account when selecting light units)

You might also consider AI Prime HD freshwater as they should come in at lower cost (I like to have manual light control so didn’t consider these any farther, but Filipe Oliver has several tanks on his YouTube channel with AI Prime lighting)


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## alto (19 Jun 2019)

It really depends on your planting goals


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## Bon MotMot (20 Jun 2019)

Thanks, Alto! A lot here to digest and research further, but that's half the fun 
Good points about adding fertilizer to the EC (I cap'd it because I thought it was a brand name); I'm in the information overload stage and I didn't know the differences between the high end AS and what I got.

Quick question about the Kessil 160's since lighting will be my next big expense: can I start with 2 to have low/moderate lighting and then add a third if I want higher? Besides the initial cost, I worry that the 360's would be too bright, but they do have dimmers? In the long run 2 360's may be cheaper that 3 160's. I should avoid high light situations at first since I come from a low light low tech background and could end up with an algae mess.


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## alto (20 Jun 2019)

Kessil 160, 360, 360X have a 
- manual ON with intensity control (keep turning )
- manual spectrum adjustment, note this is limited to values that Kessil determined were still optimal for plant growth but from human eye perspective range from warm to cool
(I finally listed to a Kessil interview a while ago, but have no idea how/where I stumbled across it) 

You can order the controller - note that 160/360 controller does NOT work with the 360X which is supposed to be getting a wifi accessory later this year 

Given the changes with the 360X, that’s would be where I’d go if purchasing today 
- more $$ but also a light that will take your tank in any direction 
- the 360s will give better light spread avoid the (front to back) width of the tank, especially if you run at reduced intensity, for better “edge lighting” I always ran my A160 at 100%(for plant growth), afterhours, I’d turn a single Kessil barely ON, swing to the back (one advantage of the goosenecks) and view the tank in “moonlight”
I love the sunlight on water effect of these lights (a major factor in my purchase decision)
Kessil is one of the few designed and made in the USA aquarium light options, the construction is top drawer  

Worth looking through George Farmer’s Aquascaper 1200 video series as these feature Kessil 360WE Tuna Sun (he runs them mostly on reduced intensity as it’s a slow growth, low light scape)


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## alto (20 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> CaribSea Super Natural coarse sand


do you have a link for this?


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## alto (20 Jun 2019)

Forget to mention Ultum Nature Systems which is ADA style competitor in the USA 

GlassAqua

BucePlant


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## Bon MotMot (20 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> do you have a link for this?



https://petocart.com/index.php?rout...MI67GT94z44gIV3lcNCh0imQmxEAQYCiABEgKsJ_D_BwE


using as a cap layer over this:

https://www.petsmart.com/fish/decor...plete-planted-aquarium-substrate-5269609.html

Sounds like I should add some fertilizer tabs


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## Bon MotMot (20 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Given the changes with the 360X, that’s would be where I’d go if purchasing today
> - more $$ but also a light that will take your tank in any direction



This is exactly what I was thinking; more initial investment but lights I can use for a long time to come. I've been binge-watching George Farmer videos all week that's how I fell in love with the quality of the Kessil light and the shimmer.


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## alto (20 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> Sounds like I should add some fertilizer tabs


What are your plant plans?

With those gravels, I’d focus on potted plants rather than 1-2-Grow or tissue culture (they do very well in fine aquarium soils, but are significantly more challenging in inert sand/gravels)

As the peace river gravel (1-2mm) is smaller than the red EC (3-6mm), I suspect over time, particles will migrate down 
(Carib Sea site), overall effect will depend on how much of a gravel cap there is


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## Bon MotMot (23 Jun 2019)

Making some progress in hardscaping. I need a couple more bags of substrate so I think I will get 9L of Tropica Aquasoil regular grain and 9L more of the powder, and put it in the areas where I will do the most planting. The low area in between will have sand in it. Kind of a hodge-podge of substrates, but I want to leave the tank for a couple years once it is set up and let it mature and evolve. Thinking it still needs a few more delicate branches, especially on the left side.

I'm going for a blend of aquascaping with a well-planted nature tank and smaller-sized fish and shrimp; I won't be changing the layout too often but I would like it to have some artisitic sensibility and not just look thrown together. Probably will end up going high-tech with it and trying to grow a carpet in the foreground. I'm enjoying looking through the other journals, especially from other newbies. You pros make everything look so easy

Cheers!


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## alto (24 Jun 2019)

Looks good so far 

If you want a carpet, I’d basically scape the tank, leaving room for the addition of a 1-2 cm layer of Tropica AS Powder in the areas you want to establish a carpet 
- you can also add this at a later date, whenever you decide on adding a carpet - though it will obviously involve some effort as you’ll need to drain the tank (move fish to a temporary suitably sized food grade bin, or lined styrofoam bin (readily available from most fish shops) as shown in this Filipe Oliveira video )

AS is used by most (professional) aquascapers as it’s the most dependable way to quickly establish typical carpeting plants
You can also initially run quite high CO2 levels while establishing the plants, then slowly taper off to minimal CO2 (or none of you select suitable plants)

Again Filipe Oliveira has video on a long running non-CO2 tank in the Aqua Flora showroom - I’ve linked most of them in this Thread

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/stocking-suggestions-for-a-planted-450l.53669/#post-530485


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## alto (24 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> I want to leave the tank for a couple years once it is set up and let it mature and evolve


 
Depending upon plant types and density and growth, most Aquarium Soils “hold” sufficient nutrients for several months to 1-2 years, if you run higher water column nutrient levels, this is believed to “renew” substrate nutrients (to some degree, I’ve not read any actual technical studies and I’m always a bit sceptical how efficient this process might be)

It’s easy to add substrate tabs beginning after a year or so, you can wait for signs of plant deficiency/growth slowdown or just plug them in - Aquarium branded versions are more expensive but also guaranteed slow release, and suitable nutrient levels for aquariums
Or you can add a nutrient rich layer such as Tropica Growth Substrate (rather messy at this stage but not difficult), Sera Flore Depot (both ones I’ve used in several tanks, hence my “name dropping” ) 

If you look at Tropica’s Inspiration Page, there are many layouts done with the Growth Substrate + fine gravel 
This was how I did my first planted tanks, though now it’s impossible to find similar fine gravels locally - instead it’s all too fine sands (that pack very densely) or larger gravels (not exactly preferred by fine root plants) ..... I’ve switched over to Tropica Aquarium Soils (much cheaper locally than ADA or Fluval Stratum, similar cost to EC (which has risen substantially recently thanks to a new trade tariffs  ... and not just EC))


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## Bon MotMot (24 Jun 2019)

Thanks again, Alto; your patience with my newbie questions and your good info are appreciated!

I think I am going to dry start the carpet plants once I figure out what I am planting exactly, so it will be pretty simple to order some Tropica AS and add it to the areas where it will be needed most. I am in love with Tim Harrison's Return of the Shallow and I want to try to get some subtle blending of plants. I am also really clumsy planting in water; all the videos make it look so easy! It will also spread the process of setting up this tank over more paychecks; I can focus on buying good lighting now and postpone decisions about filtration, CO2, etc. for later.


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## alto (24 Jun 2019)

Practise planting motions with a GOOD pair of pinsettes (though I suspect if you’re already adept with chopsticks perhaps it’s an easier skill  I was already a biochemist working in enzymology before I planted my first tank ) 

Try different brands to find one that feels good in your hand - for fine work, you want a narrow tip, for rosette plants such as Echinodorus, a broader tip is easier (or hands - watch Tropica planting videos, they have several Plant Handling videos that include trimming and are well worth watching - it’s nicely organized on their YouTube channel under PlayLists)
I have a single straight edge ADA knockoff from years ago that are lightweight despite their length and easy to close/release (I keep promising myself an ADA pinsette but am blocked by the rep who has them listed as _In the Warehouse_ (so won’t order more) but cannot find them ) 

I find the Tropica, Seachem, and a couple other brand names I’ve forgotten, to be heavy, clumsy with poor “feel”; also touch the “grip marks”, some are very sharp and can easily damage plant structure - especially as combined with the lack of “feel”

It’s a thousand times easier to plant “dry” (or damp”) - this really depends on the substrate, some are easier completely dry, some much damper - you don't want to need to use one hand to hold the plant/substrate in place while releasing the pinsettes - too slow and awkward and difficult to manage planting density


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## alto (24 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> are appreciated!


I appreciate being appreciated


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## Bon MotMot (26 Jun 2019)

Here's the little tank (110L) fully planted. In less than a week's time the cabomba and Amazon sword have taken off while the HC Cuba is mostly withering away. A little crypt melt. I'm keeping this tank as a low-tech jungle.


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## alto (26 Jun 2019)

Looks grand 

HC isn’t all that keen without CO2 ... and it likes Aquarium Soil for its tiny roots 

MC will grow fairly easily stuffed between rocks etc as long as CO2 and suitable water column fertilization (it will grow without CO2 but seems more particular)
HC _can_ be grown similarly but is definitely less forgiving

Just cut back any melting crypt leafs, they’ll regrow sooner (the melt can “infect” new shoots)


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## Bon MotMot (27 Jun 2019)

Yeah I think I won't bother with a carpet for this tank. Things are starting to gel with both the 110 and the 284; I will have all my substrate and hardscape plus some lights for the big one soon. I went with a cheaper light system to get started: Finnex CRV 48" which sounds like it will grow plants and is about 15% of the cost of the Kessils. I am still drooling over twin Kessil A360X Tuna Suns but they will have to remain aspirational for now 

I put 4 Cherry shrimp and one Amano shrimp in the tank last weekend and realized after the fact that they went in too soon in the initial cycling process. One Cherry is confirmed dead but at least 2 are still alive and the Amano is doing fine. He found the wafers today and was NOMNOMNOMYUMMYGOODSTUFF. As bad as my cat with her treats.


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## Bon MotMot (27 Jun 2019)

Forgot to mention-I did get two bags of Tropica AS to supplement the substrate in the 284. I will try to place it strategically for the rooted plants since it is so expensive, and supplement the other areas with root tabs. I got 9L of regular and 9L of powder for the carpet areas.


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## alto (27 Jun 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> Finnex CRV 48"


This will grow plants just fine in a 30cm wide x 36cm high aquarium 
But
substrate PAR will be fairly low in your 53cm high and I suspect you’ll observe significant shading as you move away form directly below the light - I recommend buying 2 of these for more even lighting across your tank width 

To increase PAR, I’d run with a lower water level (36 - 40cm) to establish plants, and then slowly increase water level after a couple months (depending)


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## rebel (27 Jun 2019)

alto said:


> Looks grand
> 
> HC isn’t all that keen without CO2 ... and it likes Aquarium Soil for its tiny roots
> 
> ...


100% agree with above. Growing HC without CO2 can be done as long as there is no other competition in the tank. It's a bit of a drama queen requiring full attention. Similar to some Instagram people these days.


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## Bon MotMot (4 Jul 2019)

Progress report. Have all the hardscape and substrate together now; added 9L of Tropica AS, 9L of Tropica AS powder and some sand on top of everything else so I will have a mess when I rescape but that shouldn't be for awhile. Rock is all dragonstone; some broken up into smaller pieces. Ordered some manzanita branches, so all the wood is soaking right now as most of the pieces are small and very floaty.

General layout:





Detail of the sand area: 


Meanwhile the little tank is keeping me entertained. It now contains one cory, three blue wag platies, 5 fancy guppies, two cherry shrimp and one Amano. Still want to add two more corys, a couple of otos, a shoal of neons and/or black neons, more shrimp and a group of Kuhli loaches.


 
(I may or may not ever learn how to take good pics with my phone)

Cheers, all!


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## Bon MotMot (9 Jul 2019)

Wood soaking, some here and some smaller pieces in a bucket out back. I'm tweaking the layout and sitting with it some; things look so different when flooded!


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> things look so different when flooded


Precisely  

The more you practise, the better you get at that translation ..... at least in theory, I rescaped my 60P recently and after a few days decided it was my worst  in years  
Not only were the aesthetics terrible but it didn’t even have the shadows and crevices I’d intended for a particular fish   
I finally pulled everything out, washed the soil a bit better (as in Filipe Oliveira rescape video) and began again 

I like your substrate hollows and path  
(though it’s easier to plant, then add the sand last - keeps it much cleaner of soil particles)


Your phone pics look better than mine


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## Bon MotMot (9 Jul 2019)

The other thing I am excited to learn about is how to translate my plantings into something that grows and develops in the desired way. I love browsing through the other journals to see how all these fantastic scapes first started out.


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## Bon MotMot (17 Jul 2019)

The big tank has life in it! Trying the yogurt method for some moss and also put down the carpet plants. We'll see how it goes. It's pretty warm in my house so I turned the AC down to try to keep things 24-26C.


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## Chris Tinker (17 Jul 2019)

taking shape, jealous! my tank is wet but no filter (leaking) and new coming tomorrow and some plants yours is coming along nicely


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## Bon MotMot (18 Jul 2019)

Thanks, Chris! Now for the hard part; getting everything to grow while keeping the moss on the tops of the branches from drying out. I haven't even bought the filter for this tank yet; going to drystart for a couple more paychecks


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## Bon MotMot (2 Aug 2019)

DSM Day 15
Trucking right along. I mist the tops of the wood once or twice a day if they look dry, and enough water trickles down everywhere else to keep things moist. Some tiny white fungus on the drier areas of the wood that are hard to spray without popping the glass lid off completely; the tank is still mostly sealed with plastic wrap covering the gaps in the lid. Second Finnex 24/7 came today so the whole tank will be well-lit; right now the support cross-pieces cast a shadow. Temps are pretty high; around 28 or 29 deg. This could turn into one of the world's longest dry starts since I might not have the time to flood it until late Sept or Oct. I could grow an oak in there.


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## alto (2 Aug 2019)

I suggest draining out the accumulated water at the sand zone, you may need to do this regularly if continuing the dry start for an extended time

You want to mist the plants rather than just the wood (or perhaps I’ve misunderstood your technique)

There’s a Journal here somewhere of a gorgeous extended dry start


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## Bon MotMot (2 Aug 2019)

Good evening Alto, the nocturnal one. I mist the plants (moss mostly) on the wood, I just direct most of the mist towards the top parts that dry sooner. I was wondering if there was too much water in the sand area, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with mold elsewhere in the tank at this time. However, it has been breeding the occasional mosquito. I try to catch the larvae because the fish in the other tanks love it, but I don't get them all. 

I loved Tim Harrison's dry start in his Return of the Shallows journal. I think that one went on for awhile.


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## Bon MotMot (7 Aug 2019)

DSM Day 21
A bit of fungus


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## dw1305 (8 Aug 2019)

Hi all, 





Bon MotMot said:


> A bit of fungus


Nice, that is a real toadstool. 

Because Basidiomycetes have the ability to degrade the lignin in wood,  it is very likely the this has come in with the wood. 

Often there is an <"environmental trigger"> for fruiting in these, so it maybe "_falling to the forest floor_" that has provoked fruiting. 

cheers Darrel


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## Bon MotMot (16 Aug 2019)

DSM Day 29
I'm leaving town for 3 days and hope things don't dry out too much; I can mist tomorrow morning and again on Sunday night. Thinking of covering the highest branch tips with plastic wrap while I am gone to keep them from drying out too much. The substrate shouldn't be a problem for that short of a time.


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## Chris Tinker (16 Aug 2019)

how long are you planning on doing this?


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## Bon MotMot (16 Aug 2019)

Until I have time for all the water changes after initial flooding. I have 2 jobs right now so that might be awhile; the DS might easily go into September. The growth has really taken off just in the last week.


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## Bon MotMot (18 Aug 2019)

Just realized I have a holiday weekend coming up the beginning of Sept so might flood the tank then. Nervous, though, because the transition to submersed is going to be tough. That means I need to order the filters NOW. Trying to decide between an Oase Thermo 600 paired with a Oase Biomaster 600 non-thermal, or a EHEIM 2217 Classic. I only need a heater for Dec through Feb; is it OK to get a Thermo but leave the heater turned off most of the year?


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## Kalum (18 Aug 2019)

Why not just have the thermo set to your desired temp and if its naturally higher anyway then the heater won't need to kick in, but if it drops then it's there to keep it stable (say at night), saves any fluctuations and provides consistency without thinking about it again?


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## alto (19 Aug 2019)

A large tank like this will only change slowly with regards shifting air temp, so I’d not worry about anything “sudden”

Most fish are quite resilient regards reduced temps when all other things are equal (I have a tendency to forget to plug my heater back in    )

Rather than leaving a heater plugged in when not needed, I’d unplug - in theory the tank temp won’t rise much above ambient or set heater temp, but in practise I find it’s much more consistent to unplug heaters during heat waves (tanks with heaters consistently ran hotter than they “should”)

Don’t forget to trim plants during the dry start


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## Bon MotMot (19 Aug 2019)

Alto-trim before or after flooding?


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## alto (19 Aug 2019)

Sorry
I was meaning trim during dry start so plants are a suitable height/growth at flooding - not so easy to remove trim I suppose - but take care that carpet plants are not so dense that lower leaves will be too shaded upon flooding 
Try to plan any trimming so that new shoots are nicely going when it’s time to flood

Also realize that the emergent growth will still mostly “disappear” upon flooding - lower temp, lots of CO2, high light tends to extend the flooded half-life of the non-submerse growth, simultaneously new submerse leafs will be forming and with the activity of a decent sized shrimp crew you may not much notice the old leaf disappearance 

(Or your Hungry Hungry Shrimp may decimate your happily growing MC  ... first time I’ve had this happen  )


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## Bon MotMot (28 Aug 2019)

So I decide to flood my tank this upcoming holiday weekend and nature comes along and says 'here let me give you a hand with that'


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## Bon MotMot (1 Sep 2019)

DSM Day 46. Flooded!


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## jimi (2 Sep 2019)

That's looking really nice mate, well done


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## Bon MotMot (2 Sep 2019)

Some closeups. I was happy with the growth and textures I got from the dry start. Now comes the hard part -transitioning to immersed. Tank is low tech so I am going to try to use lots of Excel at first and then gradually ramp it down. I also need to figure out how to take better pictures with my phone.


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## Bon MotMot (3 Sep 2019)

I made a joke a few days ago about Hurricane Dorian flooding my big tank on the weekend I was intending to flood it anyways. The reality as it unfolds is I have the luxury of scaping most of the day with one eye on the weather radar as occasional rainy squalls with gusts to the mid 40’s go by. At the same time people in Abaco and Grand Bahama are dealing with a surge event of historic proportions as Dorian has stalled over them.

I feel so fortunate for the miss here but also so heavy-hearted at the catastrophe unfolding 220 km away. Think I need to go watch a George Farmer video now. Something pretty and soothing.


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## alto (3 Sep 2019)

Looks grand 

The Excel is fine - within reason (I’d stay inside Seachem dosing limits) as some plants can be sensitive to high doses

Large daily water changes with cool (even cold) water are likely more beneficial than exceptional Excel 

Good to hear your weather stayed reasonable


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (3 Sep 2019)

I'd probably do both! Bit of algecide in the excel along with the co2 from the water changes!


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## Bon MotMot (3 Sep 2019)

Cold water is hard to come by this time of year in south Florida and I'm not going to be able to do more than two water changes a week tops because of my work hours. What % would you recommend? I was thinking around 50% 2x/wk because that has worked for my other tanks but none of the others are transitioning from dry start. It looks good right now since nothing has had a chance to melt. Still have some more plants to add on the islands; I grab whatever I can find wherever I can find it since we don't have any of those glorious aquascaping shops nearby like Europe seems to have.


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## Jayefc1 (3 Sep 2019)

Looks really cool mot do you have a plant list carpet looks like its coping well with the flooding I'm sure there are some amazing aquascape shop in Florida a state that big must have 
Cheers 
Jay


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## alto (4 Sep 2019)

A Python water changer is the best time investment 
(I’ve used alternate branded systems but quality, especially of the tubing, is no where near as good)

Just start syphon and drain to garden or toilet etc to save on water usuage (though Python does claim a 7:1 ratio once started (which is consistent with theory) - certainly the outflow water does run close to tank temp rather than the cold tap water, but that’s the extent of my measurement ... note if your tap pressure is low, it can struggle to start the syphon from tank (depending on distance and height) and will waste water during this stage)

Refill tank directly from tap, adding sufficient Prime for entire tank volume (depending on tap additives, you can omit Prime if no livestock - as I usually have a cycled filter, I add shrimp and snails the day after tank setup)

With the twice a week water change, I’d aim for 70% 
Check each day for any melt and do a quick syphon to remove any debris (maybe 10% water change to do this)
Even 20% daily should increase CO2 levels in water - obviously one can also add sparkling water but most contain significant sodium levels, if you have a SodaStream system, just carbonate some tap water and add to tank 

I find that melt becomes obvious around the second week - but this is going to vary with temp, also lighting and CO2
You might run 24/7 CO2 - usual (higher) rate during photoperiod, reduced rate during off hours - this should maintain a slightly elevated background CO2 level; this is more relevant if tank is in a bright room rather than a (very) dim corner
 forgot this is non-CO2

If you plant R Vietnam H’ra, you can see the (surprisingly) low level of ambient light needed for leafs to “open” 
(this plant grows rather nicely in non-CO2 and will show pink even in quite low light, slow growth setups, it’s become one of my favourite plants)


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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)

Thanks y'all!

Here is my species list for the DSM and how they fared:

Grew well:
Gratiola viscidula
Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo'
Staurogyne repens
Hydrocotyle tripartite
Marsilea angustifolia
Eleocharis parvula

Got established; didn't melt but didn't go crazy:
Helanthium tennellum
Lilaeopsis Mauritius

Mosses (yogurt method):
(these all established but did not grow like mad)
Spiky moss
Fissidens fontanus
Riccardia chamedryfolia

I think the mosses did not take off and spread because of the warmth (28 deg). I am fine with slow growth, as long as things are alive. I don't expect everything to do well in a low tech tank, but it is fun to try. I misted twice a day and aimed mostly at the taller branches; the floor stayed moist enough on its own. I sucked water out of the sand area from time to time. I kept the glass lid and saran wrap on for the entire 46 days. I did not have mold issues, but had all kinds of interesting fungi pop up here and there. In addition to the toadstool I had miniature shelf fungi and a couple of other types on the wood. I'm going to also post this in one of the DSM-specific threads.


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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)




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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)

There is another thread around here somewhere about inspiration. One of the things I like about aquascaping is its celebration of the small and humble beauty in nature. I see scapes in weedy lots that I pass on the way to work. I have always loved the textures of the weeds growing on the side of my house where the homeowner's association can't see. Much more interesting than lawn!


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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)

Lighting: was 12 hours/day before and went to 6 hrs/day once flooded. At 100% intensity. Will adjust as necessary.


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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)

Tim Harrison I was also inspired by your Return of the Shallows dry start. What a gorgeous scape!


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## Bon MotMot (5 Sep 2019)

alto said:


> A Python water changer is the best time investment
> (I’ve used alternate branded systems but quality, especially of the tubing, is no where near as good)
> 
> Just start syphon and drain to garden or toilet etc to save on water usuage (though Python does claim a 7:1 ratio once started (which is consistent with theory) - certainly the outflow water does run close to tank temp rather than the cold tap water, but that’s the extent of my measurement ... note if your tap pressure is low, it can struggle to start the syphon from tank (depending on distance and height) and will waste water during this stage)
> ...


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## alto (5 Sep 2019)

Pump flow rate isn’t adjustable?

http://www.pythonproducts.com/products.html
- replacement pump 13B has a standard hose connector
- tap connector (next product line down) depends on your tap fitting 
Then you can easily adjust flow rate back into tank
In a bigger tank I refill back through the syphon tube (just make sure it’s all water to water with no air and the flow is dampened/smooth) or an old Eheim filter tube “strainer” (small tanks)
You can also place the return into a small container resting on the bottom of the tank (I use old Whole Foods clear plastic containers as I like to “see”) as this will also dampen the flow  - just make sure your hose won’t flip free when you decide it’s safe to turn up the tap flow    

Any sort of hose can be used to drain the tank
But
When refilling, make sure the hose is not treated with antifungals etc (most garden/outdoor hose in Canada, US is treated, unless you buy drinking water grade (for campers etc))
I like clear hose as I’m somewhat adept at siphoning shrimp etc (or perhaps I just have fish and shrimp that really want to travel)


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## Kalum (5 Sep 2019)

As @alto mentions above the python system or similar is worth its weight in gold, the standard hook makes things so much easier and saves worrying about the hose coming out of the tank while refilling but you could also use one of the standard plastic pipes that comes with most external filters and a couple of quick release connectors to switch between this and the syphon tube

This is the python hook with part of the standard eheim kit attached to diffuse water going back in


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## alto (5 Sep 2019)

My kit didn’t include the hook and none of the local shops that used to retail Python Products carried it (and I refuse to pay outrageous mailing fees ) so I made do with an Eheim suction cup (one of the C’s is the perfect size) and the same Eheim green filter diffuser ... the system works grand 
Unless
SOME Cat leaps about in apparent frenzy and dislodges the lot   ............. again


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## Bon MotMot (6 Sep 2019)

Oops. Bad kitty....


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## Bon MotMot (7 Sep 2019)

One week after flooding. A touch of melt here and there, especially this one patch of Monte Carlo


 

Some more views of the tank. This is just before today's water change; there is a little bit of dark gunk settled everywhere. I think it comes from the wood, which also has a little bit of slime on it. I'm pretty happy with the two Oase BioMaster 600's; they are so quiet that I keep checking the outflows to make sure they are still on. No leaking, either.


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## alto (9 Sep 2019)

This is when I rail against aquarium wood  


(Sometimes I use just stone in a complete reversal from my earlier wood only scapes)

Livestock activity seems to reduce that accumulation of debris on leaves - just “waft” like George! 
You can do this without water changes - or possibly incorporate it into the small daily changes to remove melting plant material (strongly recommended as it can impact more and more plants, almost like a contagion)

A shrimp crew would remove those melting MC leaves before you really notice any extended melt, but then there are additional concerns re water parameters suitable to livestock 

I suspect after a dry start of this length, there are good levels of bacteria in soil, on wood, plants and slow addition of livestock would be fine - I use Seachem’s Ammonia Alert (& sometimes pH Alert as well) to monitor
(note that ammonia is much less toxic under acidic than alkaline conditions)

I’d add 10 subadult shrimp to start - which would be a minimal bioload in a tank of this size
Then add 20 - 30 more (if initial group seem to thrive)
(I always look for juvenile - subadult shrimp when buying, they are usually more adaptable than adults, it’s also difficult to assess age in adult shrimp)


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## Bon MotMot (16 Sep 2019)

Day 15 since flooding. The MC melt seems to be contained to one patch, although I have had more Anubias and Buce melt in this tank than in my others. They were added after the dry start and this is the brightest tank I have so I wonder if too much light is the reason. Mostly things are holding together so I added some Nerite snails and 3 Amano shrimp today. Side views:


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## Bon MotMot (22 Sep 2019)

Day 21 since flooding. Added 7 rummynose tetras, 3 black mollies, 2 otos and 3 Amano shrimp. I already could stare at this tank for hours when it was just plants growing; I will never get anything else done at home now


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## Bon MotMot (22 Sep 2019)

Still haven't figured out how to take fish pics with my phone; they are just blurs. Some general plant scenes:



 

 



I have been pretty satisfied with the transition to immersed so far; some melt here and there but nothing major. Still on 40 to 50% water change twice a week, and I intended to use a lot of Excel at first and then taper off slowly but I keep forgetting to dose.


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## alto (22 Sep 2019)

Add at least 3 more Otos, please - the tank is certainly large enough to support a group - and they are very sociable

And 10 more Amano 

3 black mollies may be enough as they get quite large (they do prefer hard alkaline water or even brackish) and if you have one girl, they’ll slowly generate more Molly for your Tank 
(reduced fry survival in community tanks, and they aren’t as prolific as guppies)

Rummynose will brighten with more numbers (not my favourite fish but lots of people like them)


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## Bon MotMot (22 Sep 2019)

Mollies have always been hit or miss with me; some adapt to softer water and do fine some don't. These were in the LFS a couple miles from my house since at least last week and seemed to be doing fine there, so hopefully they will thrive in my water which should be similar. I do have plans for continued stocking: was thinking of 25 cardinal tetras, 13 black neons and 7 black phantoms for schooling fish. What don't you like about rummynose? Something about their coloring, or their behavior?

My 3 Amano are hiding now that there are fish around; I hope they get used to them and come out again!


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## alto (22 Sep 2019)

General recommendation is at least 10 shrimp - they feel much more comfortable in groups 
You could easily do 30-40 Amano in this tank (as cleanup crew)

The Rummy’s and Molly’s likely investigate anytime the shrimp venture out 
Rummynose tetras can be pickpickpick at other fish (don’t put a Betta in with them) and are often constantly in motion - I don’t find them restful (Mark Evans put them in one of his tanks and commented on their constant restless movement - he included some video, though I can’t recall which tank journal)
They likely will be fine in your tank as it’s a good size 

I prefer the greens and blues and purples and browns in my aquarium fish (chocolate gourami, kubotai rasbora etc) rather than the reds


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## Bon MotMot (22 Sep 2019)

I would like to accumulate a mess of Amanos in this tank; these three were the pioneers. 
Have you kept Bamboo shrimp? I am curious about having one or two of them; the flow is pretty strong in the back of the tank and there are a few potential perches for them to sit and filter


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## alto (23 Sep 2019)

I’ve not kept any of the filterfeeding shrimp, check out possible species and be sure of the identity before you purchase (sometimes shops are not that knowledgeable or shipped species may be incorrectly labelled) 
Keep one for several months (or even a year) before adding another - they often starve in tanks over the longterm


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## Bon MotMot (24 Sep 2019)

Tragedy strikes. All but one of the 8 rummynoses have died already and I just got them last Sunday. I've been fishkeeping for 40 years and the last time I had a batch of fish die that quickly was when we put a dozen small neon tetras in with the angelfish. The 3 mollies, 2 otos and Amano shrimp seem fine.


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## alto (24 Sep 2019)

Commiserations

You could check back with the shop if they had any losses ... some shops will say, some won’t, sometimes just wandering back in is more revealing, just stand and watch the fish for 15min or so looking for weak fish

If losses were gradual, I’d suspect disease
If all died suddenly one day, it may be a tank related - though seems less likely as you’re not adding CO2, there’s sufficient flow (of the fish you have, the Rummy’s are the most oxygen demanding) and with that low a fish load, I’d be surprised if ammonia would be an issue

At this point, I’d perform a large water change, vacuum as much as you can, wipe down glass - if this is ich related, expect some life stages in water column and on surfaces
Don’t add fish for 2-3 weeks

IME Otocinclus seem much less ich prone than many other fish species, and I’ve witnessed Rummynose (single species shop tank) dying suddenly after a few days of seeming “slightly under the weather” but no visible/definitive symptoms
FWIW the Rummynose is the photo above does not look like a “happy” fish, there’s some clamping of the fins (usually a sign of external parasites, but may also be seen in internal bacterial infections) and dulled colours (but significance also depends which species of “Rummynose”)

Monitor the Mollies very closely for even a single white spot (ich) - take some photos or video if they don’t remain still enough for close examination
Watch for increased respiration, less active swimming, any change in food response - these are always apparent before the first white spot appears (but are overlooked by many)

In reality *Ichthyophthirius multifiliis *is so prevalent in the ornamental fish industry that I’m inclined to treat whenever I buy fish (or fish ship in), I always quarantine fish before adding to my tanks
(Research studies have shown ~90% of shipped fish have some degree of ich, the stress of bagging and shipping will see an exponential increase in parasite levels)


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## Bon MotMot (25 Sep 2019)

Yeah the last surviving rummynose has ich; I can see the white spots on him/her. Back in the day I used to treat all incoming fish with that ich medicine that turned the water blue, but now I have concerns about the shrimp and overmedicating the fish in the tank that are OK -this will matter more when I have some fish established and am adding new ones. I used to hate adding new fish when the existing community was stable. I suppose this is where a quarantine tank becomes useful; what exactly do you do with your incoming fish? (medication, time in quarantine, size of your q-tank, etc.?) I just have a small 10L tank that I could use.


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## alto (25 Sep 2019)

Seeing that Ich spot is good/bad ... nice to have a confirmed illness but now you know that every (ich) life stage is present in what a week ago was a lovely pristine tank  
After having a case of medication resistant ich (and no idea how it slipped through the quarantine process) a couple years back, I’m very careful with fish additions to my display tanks
(as you’re in Florida expect local ich strains to be heat resistant/tolerant so don’t treat with increased temps (you’ll kill most fish before you eradicate ich))


Medications I like to keep at hand (then I rarely need them )
Hikari Ich-X Salt Water, PraziPro, BiFuran+
Seachem ParaGuard, KanaPlex, MetroPlex, Focus

Ich-X SW, ParaGuard, MetroPlex can be tolerated short term in planted tanks with minimal invertebrate losses
Note, shrimp that have just moulted are sensitive to everything (even a normal water change) until their new exoskeleton hardens, which can take up to 24-36 h depending
(If I see any moults in the tank, I’ll wait for water changes etc)

Both Hikari and Seachem present warnings/cautions when using medications (many people think about the biofilter possibly being affected, but oxygen sequestration is a much more immediate concern), Seachem has fairly extensive information, some is included on the profile page, other details may be given on their Discussion Board
(and you can email etc directly)

The trick with a Quarantine or Hospital tank is that it needs to be convenient for use, maintenance etc and a suitable size for most fish you might purchase/own
Generally a bare tank is more sensible re limiting potential disease/providing a near “sterile” tank - substrates can be fantastic reservoirs of infection agents
One can also use any food safe bin plus air driven sponge - though I prefer to use small, adjustable flow internal filters that I can quickly load with media from my main filter (air pump noise drives me )
Some fish are very sensitive to bare environs and stress will limit recovery - I prefer to quarantine wild caught fish in dim tanks with rock/wood etc, or even a basic planted tank (where I’m willing to sacrifice plants for treatment)

I will almost always treat new fish for ich, at the early stages, 2-3 doses of Ich-X SW over a few days is usually sufficient
After that, I’m just doing frequent water changes and monitoring fish for several days to weeks
(again this depends on fish species you like to keep, I’m a chocolate gourami fan, and they should be quarantined
for 6 - 8 weeks to be sure there are no internal bacterial infections ... that will immediately be shared with related species)

(by the time you observe any visible white spots - fish are infested)

If you like to adjust or add fish regularly, then an investment in an AIO tank kit may be worthwhile

Antibiotics or BiFuran etc are generally poorly tolerated by invertebrates and plants (especially at “tropical” temperatures)

A standard 10 gal tank is fine for most “slender tetras” type fish, if you like larger fish or might purchase larger shoals, I’d upgrade to a 20gal (used is fine, just thoroughly clean before use, and test for leaks OUTSIDE)

PS
I’d call and inform the shop of your experience


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## Bon MotMot (25 Sep 2019)

Thank you for another very informative post; I will be digesting it and referring to it in the future.



alto said:


> Ich-X SW, ParaGuard, MetroPlex can be tolerated short term in planted tanks with minimal invertebrate losses
> Note, shrimp that have just moulted are sensitive to everything (even a normal water change) until their new exoskeleton hardens, which can take up to 24-36 h depending
> (If I see any moults in the tank, I’ll wait for water changes etc)



I did not know this about molting shrimp. What happens when you have a tank full and somebody's always molting? Keep your scheduled water changes anyways and hope for the best?



alto said:


> I will almost always treat new fish for ich, at the early stages, 2-3 doses of Ich-X SW over a few days is usually sufficient. After that, I’m just doing frequent water changes and monitoring fish for several days to weeks



This is in the main tank or the quarantine tank?

Thanks again


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## alto (25 Sep 2019)

Just watch the shrimp, if loads on fresh moults, I’ll wait a day on the water change
(they often moult more just after purchase and when they get eating (like fish, shrimp should not be fed for 2-3 days before shipping to maintain best travelling bag conditions), then this slows down after a couple months)

If just the odd moult, carry on with scheduled water changes, but I’ll do 40-50% and not more than that (I often do 70% water changes) - if you’ve got some test kits or 5in1 strips, I’ll check tap vs tank parameters 

I almost always place new fish in a Q tank, so treating for external parasites etc there (most “Ich” remedies treat various external parasites, just Ich is the most prevalent)

Occasionally I’ll set up a planted tank for a specific fish I’ve ordered or found when walking into a shop (& immediately purchasing as they are an unlikely find) and I may then place the new fish directly into that “clean” planted (display) aquarium  
If fish seem OK, I like to wait 12-24 h before adding Ich-X SW, then monitor behaviour - if they seem brighter, more active active an hour or so after dosing the Ich-X that’s a good confirmation that they were irritated before (by some external parasite) 
At this stage, I generally place fish health above plant health and I’ll continue treating fish 
Most chocolate gourami (I’m including a few species under this general common name) are wild caught, do better in larger numbers, but don't like crowding so my Q tank isn’t ideal ...  they also have poor immunity against common trade pathogens so I don’t wait to see if their immune system is going to deal with whatever might be affecting them
(unfortunately I learned this through trial and error, now I rarely buy any Choco’s from shop tanks, if I can’t order and receive the fish still in the shipping bag, I try to just walk away)

Most tank bred fish do fine in most Q tanks

It’s a judgement call (guess!) as to which way to go 

Whenever treating sick fish, daily water change is the best “medicine”, optimize oxygen levels in the water column (allowing your filter return to “splash” , ensure there’s good surface movement, reduce temperature to lowest comfortable (especially important if a suspected bacterial infection)) as many pathogens target the gill tissue as a primary infection site (before spreading systemically)
Most sick fish have primary, secondary and tertiary infections, if you can correctly guess and treat the primary pathogen, and fish are not stressed, their immune system will clear other infections
Dim lighting is important as most fish experience some degree of stress from bright lights, and (obviously) sick fish are more reactive to environmental stresses
Many medications are photosensitive, so again dim lighting is recommended 
Remove any carbon/charcoal or Purigen etc before medicating (as these can remove meds from the water column)
Clean water - always perform a large (50-90% depending) water change before beginning - is better for medications as other compounds may interfere with active ingredients 

Pick up a copy of the Manual of Fish Health by Andrews, Excell, Carrington as it includes all this general care information (as well as specific disease discussions, photos etc)


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## Bon MotMot (26 Sep 2019)

which leads to another question; is it generally better to order fish online (from a reputable source, obviously) since they come straight from the breeder to me and bypass the additional stress of shop tanks? I have bought at least half of my plants online but I have yet to purchase livestock online.


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## alto (26 Sep 2019)

It depends 


Do you know some reputable online retailers?

Some shops keep each tank on independent filters and don’t mix species upon arrival(though if nets are transferred casually between tanks this is all that’s needed to spread Ich throughout the shop) - instead moving existing fish to various (often mix) tanks when new stock arrives 
Some shops may have quarantine tanks in a back room (but those I’ve seen, then mixed all the new shipment fish across a few large tanks ... not quite understanding the concept of Q or just doing what they could ... I didn’t ask)

Some shops will run a UV on their tank system and assume that provides disease protection (so much depends upon the UV lamp, the flowrate, system turnover, flow cell glass quality/shape)

This is why running your own Q tank at home provides the best protection for your fish community 

Examine fish carefully in the shop - look at the fish of interest and every other fish in the tank, look about the shop at the rest of the tanks, talk to shop employees (& management ... separately )

As an example
Wet Spot Tropical Fish runs an online and retail shop, they have a separate quarantine facility, they tranship/import fish from Asian and SA suppliers ... looking at their fish lists, they obviously deal with “good” knowledgeable suppliers 
(as you guess I’m on the wrong coast  )


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## Bon MotMot (26 Sep 2019)

Wet Spot was on my radar as a possible source even though they're on the opposite end of the country. You in BC, then?


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## Bon MotMot (26 Sep 2019)

On a more positive note it's cool to see some of the plants pearling after a water change


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## alto (26 Sep 2019)

Bon MotMot said:


> Wet Spot was on my radar as a possible source even though they're on the opposite end of the country. You in BC, then?


You’re good 

Ironically WetSpot does not ship to Canada


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## tam (26 Sep 2019)

I've used Esha exit on white spot with otos and cherry shrimp in the tank - no issues at all even the tiny baby shrimp survived it. Don't know if it's available in the states though.


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## Bon MotMot (3 Oct 2019)

Day 32 since flooding.



Water change 40% twice a week, lights on full power about 6 hours a day; one squirt a day of Ultum Nature Systems All in One fertilizer, no CO2. There's a fish or two in there somewhere: 2 black mollies, 4 otos and one lonely survivor rummynose.


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## Bon MotMot (3 Nov 2019)

2 months since flooding. Starting to need a trim. 



Livestock: 
13 Amanos including 2 gravid females that are the size of prawns
assorted Nerite snails
4 otos
4 skunk cories
one hillstream loach
2 black mollies
20 black neon tetras
5 cardinal tetras
three German blue rams (one male one female one genderfluid)
one female betta
and that last rummynose survivor. At least he can spend the day hanging with the tetras instead of trying to be a molly or a cory ​


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## alto (3 Nov 2019)

I wonder if perhaps you should increase fertilizers  - that seems a fairly conservative dose - especially after water changes ...though I’ve forgotten what your tap water is like  

I’d encourage gradual trimming in nonCO2 tanks, rather than cutting back everything in one go, do maybe 1/3 of the stems etc, wait for signs of regrowth, then continue on
I’d also trim and replant tops (actively growing portion of plant) - plant base maybe more/less active in putting forth new growing tips, especially if quite shaded 

The photo looks dark but tank seems lovely


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## Bon MotMot (23 Feb 2020)

Haven't posted a pic in a long time, or done a substantial trim for that matter. Think the tank peaked in that last photo from November. Since then the S. repens and H. tripartia have died back after flourishing for a couple months. Christmas moss and Monte Carlo is hanging in there, and the stems in the back are growing like crazy, especially the Ludwigia.


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## Bon MotMot (23 Feb 2020)

This Blue ram was one of my favorite fish in there, even if he was a homicidal maniac.

 I bought 3 at the same time: one dominant male, one submissive male and a female. They all got on well enough for a couple months but then the top guy went into a courting frenzy with the female, and killed the other male. I tried to add another female, but he never accepted her and chased her to death immediately. And just a few days ago, he died for no reason that I could tell. The female is now a lot brighter; she always would dim her colors when he was around (the submissive male would, too) so now I am wondering if she is a female at all, although she seemed to interact with the top male like one. Guess she's going to stay the only Blue ram in there for now since it seems difficult to add a new one because they're so territorial.


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (24 Feb 2020)

If you really want to add more rams you can help the process by removing the existing ram for a while, reshaping, adding the new fish then returning her. Depends if you want to rescape a bit or not though!!


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## Keetchy (25 Feb 2020)

Tank is looking amazing. Very natural look going on here. Good job 

Are these white spots Nerite Snail eggs???


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## Gill (26 Feb 2020)

They look like they have been laid in straight lines, which is what nerites will do. They will need to.be removed with a wire brush or blade. As they harden quickly as need brackish to hatch. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Gill (29 Feb 2020)

Nerites will also lay their eggs on anything slow moving. And have seen them lay on other snails shells.


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## Bon MotMot (29 Feb 2020)

I'm not sure if they are nerite eggs or particles of sand clinging to the hardscape. I have 2 other tanks that are covered in nerite eggs; this tank has the least. It is also the only tank with Amanos in it; do they eat nerite eggs? They eat everything else!


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## alto (30 May 2020)

Bon MotMot said:


> I bought 3 at the same time: one dominant male, one submissive male and a female. They all got on well enough for a couple months but then the top guy went into a courting frenzy with the female, and killed the other male. I tried to add another female, but he never accepted her and chased her to death immediately. And just a few days ago, he died for no reason that I could tell. The female is now a lot brighter; she always would dim her colors when he was around (the submissive male would, too) so now I am wondering if she is a female at all, although she seemed to interact with the top male like one. Guess she's going to stay the only Blue ram in there for now since it seems difficult to add a new one because they're so territorial.



This is a decent sized aquarium for rams - but whoever sold you that odd trio did these lovely fish no favour ... and then someone sold you a single female to add to a tank with an existing duo (again not a method for success, especially if you were given no instructions on how to introduce this new single ram) 

Larger groups do better as usually no single fish gets overwhelmed by negative attention - there’s always someone else distracting the focus 

Female rams can have amazing colors, and will show submissive colors if not really keen on a particular male, or not ready to breed;  like males, there are more/less dominant females 

I’ve kept rams that go into a decline when they become the lone fish, others seem quite pleased

How goes the plant life?


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## Bon MotMot (31 May 2020)

I am to blame for the ram decisions; I thought I was buying 2 females and one male, but the middle fish of the trio turned out to be another male (I guess).  The three of them got on for a few weeks. Adding the new female was a mistake and I should've done more research before getting her. How many rams do you think the tank could comfortably hold? What sex ratio? Males are a lot easier to find than females in my area. I really liked their behavior when they weren't being homicidal maniacs.


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## Bon MotMot (31 May 2020)

alto said:


> How goes the plant life?



Today I finally got the nerve to do a huge trim. The one I should've done in February.

CAUTION: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES THAT MAY NOT BE SUITABLE FOR SENSITIVE VIEWERS
Trigger warning: overgrown stems, lifting carpet, mixed up substrate


this morning:




Now:




The fish really liked the tangled Ludwidgia mess and I liked it too until about a month ago when it became just too much. There was all kinds of stuff under the moss that I had forgotten was in the tank

I need to switch out the sand area; I want to put natural-colored sand in that open area. I saw a video, I think from MD Fish Tanks, where he cleaned his sandy area by sucking it out, cleaning the sand in a bucket, and putting it back in the tank. The fish etc. weren't bothered. I am hoping I could replace my sand in a similar way without disrupting everything else if I rinse it really well beforehand.

I think the MC carpet is toast; I'm not very good at trimming it so it's lifting and if I pull it up and try starting over planting little clumps I don't think it will take with the low-tech setup and the corys.


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## Geoffrey Rea (31 May 2020)

Bon MotMot said:


> I am hoping I could replace my sand in a similar way without disrupting everything else if I rinse it really well beforehand.



If it’s only a small amount of sand you could just replace with fresh? I mix old sand with our compost for potting plants so it gets more use.

If it’s economy you’re after hoover the sand out into a bucket, replace with fresh and you can clean your old sand at your leisure for the next change out.


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## Bon MotMot (16 Jun 2020)

Heading in the right direction. Was able to suck up the old sand easily and replace it with new, and there's nothing quite like a razor blade for getting the algae off the glass quickly and completely.


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## Bon MotMot (10 Jun 2021)

I knew it has been awhile since posting but I didn't realize it was a whole year! Garden and house exterior plus 2 jobs took all my attention for the last several months. I did a half rescape with all the fish still in the tank back in March and it has grown in since then. I have mostly neglected this tank but the fish and shrimp population is stable and by now it is down to easy plants. Crypts seem to like the conditions; I will lean on them heavily in future scapes.


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