# Another soil vs sand question



## fishandting (24 Oct 2022)

Hi all,

I've been perusing this forum for a while as I've been planning setting up my tank. There's a wealth of information on here and some very helpful, knowledgeable members on here!

In short, due to space and time constraints, I'm setting up a nano tank, a Fluval Flex 34 litre, low tech.

My original plan, helped in no small part by the legendary Soil Substrate thread on here, was to set it up using some potting soil in mesh filter bags capped with sand. I've bought some hopefully not-too-demanding plants - crypts, hygrophila polysperma, java fern, java moss, bucephalandra etc.

I haven't bought any fertilisers yet, but am thinking to go with TNC Complete as it seems to be well thought of on here, but am open to recommendations from others.

Doing a bit more reading led me down the rabbit hole of the various threads on sand vs other substrates so now I'm considering whether I should forget about the soil and just go with sand on its own?

It seems to me that the advantages of the soil are that it contains nutrients that are beneficial to the plants, but presumably these could also be provided through dosing? The downside of soil is the mess and potential ammonia spike in the beginning?

Sand seems to be more stable overall but may be harder to plant into initially?

Any advice would be welcome as I can't really decide at the moment, in case you couldn't tell already!

Thanks in advance


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## Tim Harrison (24 Oct 2022)

Well you know which I lean toward. But sand is much more convenient in terms of disturbance and water chemistry. If you're going to feed the water column it doesn't really matter either way. Although feeding both roots and leaves makes sense horticulturally. Using soil also means you will always have a buffer against missed doses and errors. Given time sand will accumulate mulm or solid organic matter which plants will utilise as a source of nutrients anyway.

The best of both worlds would be to go down the Gucci substrate route with something like ADA Amazonia or Tropica Aquarium Soil. Doesn't matter if you're low or high energy. Tropica also do a soil type substrate which is used just like soil. Let George tell you how to use it. The principle is just the same as using potting compost or aquatic compost, and the results will be similar. The latter is just easier on your wallet.

They're all easy to plant in, you just need a depth of 3-5 cms of Gucci substrate, sand, or capping substrate as a minimum.


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## fishandting (24 Oct 2022)

Thanks for the reply Tim, much appreciated.

I had thought about those other options, but found them a bit expensive so was looking for something a bit cheaper hence the soil and/or sand!

I think I might be leaning towards sand for the ease for this tank and keep dreaming of a bigger soil-based more natural tank in the future...


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## The Miniaturist (25 Oct 2022)

Hi there, I use Tropica substrate (that's the soil powder) capped with sand in my tanks. For a 34l Flex you would only need one bag, so not inordinately expensive, though just sand is more than adequate, have a look at @Hufsa's journal!
I followed Tropica's directions _exactly  _& have had no problems with water clouding or ammonia spikes. I've even scraped the sand off & moved the whole lot to another tank!
With Tropica, it's only necessary to use a ½ inch layer, then cap with sand. The substrate forms a soft clay-like layer under the sand which crypts & echinodorus species seem to love. Unplanting is possible too, with some care & patience!


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## fishandting (31 Oct 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> Hi there, I use Tropica substrate (that's the soil powder) capped with sand in my tanks. For a 34l Flex you would only need one bag, so not inordinately expensive, though just sand is more than adequate, have a look at @Hufsa's journal!
> I followed Tropica's directions _exactly  _& have had no problems with water clouding or ammonia spikes. I've even scraped the sand off & moved the whole lot to another tank!
> With Tropica, it's only necessary to use a ½ inch layer, then cap with sand. The substrate forms a soft clay-like layer under the sand which crypts & echinodorus species seem to love. Unplanting is possible too, with some care & patience!


Thanks for the reply! I took your advice on board and ended up buying a bag of Tropica substrate and sand to cap it.

Hoping to set the tank up this week - first fish tank I've set up in over 20 years (and first ever planted tank...) so will see how it goes!


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## FISHnLAB (6 Nov 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> Hi there, I use Tropica substrate (that's the soil powder) capped with sand in my tanks. For a 34l Flex you would only need one bag, so not inordinately expensive, though just sand is more than adequate, have a look at @Hufsa's journal!
> I followed Tropica's directions _exactly  _& have had no problems with water clouding or ammonia spikes. I've even scraped the sand off & moved the whole lot to another tank!
> With Tropica, it's only necessary to use a ½ inch layer, then cap with sand. The substrate forms a soft clay-like layer under the sand which crypts & echinodorus species seem to love. Unplanting is possible too, with some care & patience!


What depth do you use for the sand cap on top of the 1/2" aquasoil? I'm using a similar system in my new build but, will be using Fluval Stratum in mesh bags(1mm hole size) underneath the sand. Thanks👍.


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## _Maq_ (6 Nov 2022)

I have observed that in UK, majority use special soils & substrates. Let me inform you that in my country, silica sand clearly dominates.
Silica sand is cheap, can be used repeatedly, does not alter the water quality in any way (which is a great advantage!), and all plants can grow well in it.


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## erwin123 (7 Nov 2022)

How do  sand-only aquariums deal with fertilisation when the owner is off for a holiday for a few weeks? Auto-dosers?

For my  aquarium, I plan to dump a week's liquid ferts, and then rely on osmocote in aquasoil to release nutrients over the next 2-3 wks into the substrate, and that the aquasoil, with decent CEC, will be able to 'hold onto' some of the NH4+ ions (via electrostatic attraction)?

Whereas my understanding that osmocote in sand, the NH4+ ions go straight to water column?


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## _Maq_ (7 Nov 2022)

erwin123 said:


> Whereas my understanding that osmocote in sand, the NH4+ ions go straight to water column?


Detritus is the answer. Detritus forms in live tank quite quickly. It's not only fish and snail feces and plant remnants but dead algae and bacteria as well. Detritus possesses significant adsorption capacity. Among others, for ammonium.

I've spent some time by contemplating what 'rich substrate' truly is. Some nutrients get always bound to the substrate, while others never do, no matter what. I've tried to increase adsorption capability of substrates with additions of various clays, zeolite, ferric oxide, charcoal, and peat. Perhaps it works, somehow, yet I've failed to observe any noticeable improvement in plants' growth & resilience.

On the other hand, I believe that silica substrate, enriched with detritus, gets better with time. I think the point is not in some kind of 'nutrients reserve', but rather in developing a favourable environment for complex microbial life. Microbes plus plants' roots are the drivers of chemical reactions which ensure full cycling of nutrients from organic matter to mineral and back. Oxic/anoxic interface is very important in these processes.

From this belief comes my negative stance toward vacuuming the substrate. In sum, I believe that a "rich substrate" is in fact a *mature* substrate.


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## dw1305 (7 Nov 2022)

Hi all,


_Maq_ said:


> On the other hand, I believe that silica substrate, enriched with detritus, gets better with time.


That is my <"guess as well">, it is the <"good things come to those who wait"> argument.  The <"best fish-keeper I ever knew"> kept mulmy tanks, despite <"working with fish"> that need very "clean" conditions.

It is easy to conflate "clean" with "sterile", but there are many different ways to <"create suitable conditions">.

@Edvet originally <"posted this one">, but I <"re-found it today"> and it made me laugh.







It is what <"Stephan Tanner"> writes about in <"Aquarium Biofiltration"> (below) and it <"also gets a run-out"> in <"Seasoned Tank time">.


> _........ Soil biofiltration is therefore very plastic, meaning it can cope with a variety of conditions. However, one feature is common. Natural layers of biofiltration are usually undisturbed for longer periods of time (many weeks and months). In nature, no one squeezes out the debris or rinses the media on a weekly schedule. Occasionally, seasonal floods or rains may “wash” a gravel bed but regular rinsing of the filter media is not happening. The microorganisms eat the debris and the sludge is completely broken down into gases and soluble products that then escape the pore space. Soil biofilters are almost maintenance-free. The released substances are either getting into the atmosphere or are taken up by plants......_



cheers Darrel


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## jaypeecee (7 Nov 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> Let me inform you that in my country, silica sand clearly dominates.


Hi @_Maq_ & Everyone

I'm in the UK and I simply use silica sand. But, I adopt the minimalist approach. I let the plants perform the filtration. The tank is home to Vietnamese Cardinal Minnows.

JPC


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## MichaelJ (7 Nov 2022)

_Maq_ said:


> From this belief comes my negative stance toward vacuuming the substrate. In sum, I believe that a "rich substrate" is in fact a *mature* substrate.


Thats the notion I am gravitating towards as well...mostly from experience.  But of course, getting to the point of _mature substrate _takes time and wont always fit the bill for everyone... for instance, the _impatient_ scaper running a high tech tank who needs to accelerated plant growth... _horses for courses_... I am not big on vacuuming either, but I don't think it's a problem if you're careful not to disturb the substrate... say to gentle remove some unseemly detritus buildup... I rarely have to do it in the tank where its an option... in my other tank I can't because of fear of sucking up shrimplets 

Cheers,
Michael


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## The Miniaturist (8 Nov 2022)

Hi @FISHnLAB I've put a generous couple of inches of sand at the back, tapering to an inch at the front. Though I expect over time it will all end up level!
I've not used bags before, just had the soil powder loose, but never had any problems with cloudy water so I must have covered it with sufficient sand depth.


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## FISHnLAB (8 Nov 2022)

The Miniaturist said:


> Hi @FISHnLAB I've put a generous couple of inches of sand at the back, tapering to an inch at the front. Though I expect over time it will all end up level!
> I've not used bags before, just had the soil powder loose, but never had any problems with cloudy water so I must have covered it with sufficient sand depth.


Ok, thanks for the added info👍. I am just using the bags to help stop the aquasoil from mixing with the sand when shuffling plants or replanting stems. Also, to aid in cleanliness when doing rescapes. I figure the roots will grow through the bag anyway and there should be very little negatives to this approach but, plenty of positives. I'm going to post how it works out in my Journal thread if you are interested. Thanks again for the help👍.


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