# Snails!! Good or bad?



## Looneeyy (20 Jan 2017)

So, I've got a little snail that some how hot in with bogwood in my cold water tank, doesn't bother me! If anything my niece&Nephew love him .. 
but! A lot of people I've spoken to have mixed opinions? 
What's everyone else's opinion?

*Sorry if I'm wrong section*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

Moved to inverts

Personally I can't abide pest snails, they reproduce by binary fission every second...well not really, but it seems like it, in no time at all you'll have a tank full...and that is really really unsightly

They can be vectors or hosts for parasites and other diseases, which can infect fish some are zoonotic, although rarely encountered in the aquarium if at all.

KILL THEM...KILL THEM ALLL....


----------



## ian_m (20 Jan 2017)

I accidentally got snails in plants from a shop that wasn't my normal fish shop.

Whilst snails are not an issue per se, they will multiply so much, that when I came back from holiday once, I ended up removing about 100 snails of various sizes from plants, hardscape, sand and inside the filters.

Mine generally ignored algae, basically nibbled a line through the algae patch and went off eating elsewhere.

You can use chemical to wipe them out.

Clown loaches will eat them. I donated my "plant eating & disrupting" clown loaches to a friend and since getting them hasn't seen a snail after being infested with snails.

I just kept removing the snails and blobs of eggs at each water change and maybe after a year I don't see them anymore.


----------



## cooling (20 Jan 2017)

Cant stand snails , the only good one imo is a dead one.
Esha Gastropex never really worked for me , so brought some Zebra Loaches and they ate them all up in no time  .


----------



## Looneeyy (20 Jan 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> Moved to inverts
> 
> Personally I can't abide pest snails, they reproduce by binary fission every second...well not really, but it seems like it, in no time at all you'll have a tank full...and that is really really unsightly
> 
> ...



Thank you hahah, and I only have one tiny thing so no chance of reproduction, it seems fine, quite amazed some days where he ends up!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

There's an art to using eSha Gastropex
This method has worked for me...https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/snails-invasion.36137/#post-395496


----------



## cooling (20 Jan 2017)

*NB* Don't forget to take in to account the capacity of your filter and remove all absorbable filter media...*charcoal*, purigen etc.


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

Looneey...most are hermaphrodites; they have both male and female reproductive organs.
Some are capable of asexual reproduction, and can make more snails all by themselves...
...that's why they will one day rule the world with cockroaches
And there are bound to be others hiding...where there is one there is usually many


----------



## simon Coram (20 Jan 2017)

I only had one now he/she it is a big un with a few little followers.


----------



## dw1305 (20 Jan 2017)

Hi all, 





Looneeyy said:


> A lot of people I've spoken to have mixed opinions?
> What's everyone else's opinion?


I'm a snail fan. 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Looneeyy (20 Jan 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, I'm a snail fan.
> 
> cheers Darrel



what sort of snails? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## micheljq (20 Jan 2017)

I like snails, those that do not touch plants.  Planorbea, substrate snails (those that like to live in the substrate).

They eat uneaten food, plant's dead parts, they will participate in the decomposition process, eat some algae.

Michel.


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

I like one species of snail...assassin snails


----------



## Looneeyy (20 Jan 2017)

It's a mixed read so far then hahahah 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## three-fingers (20 Jan 2017)

Another snail ally here.  

I purposely put snails in all my aquariums as I find them interesting and useful scavengers.

Snails cause no harm, if you have a lot of algae or organic waste in your tank, they will multiply by consuming it. So then you will have less algae/rotting waste, but more snails.  I'd personally rather have snails than rotting waste.  

Common "pest" aquarium snails do not eat healthy plants (thier mouths are too small and weak) or cause any other harm. Some people just don't like the look of having snails visible in their tanks, some go to the extent putting toxic chemicals in their tanks to kill the snails (which leaves dead, rotting snails in the tank and exposes the other livestock to a less-than-deadly dose of copper).

Keep up tank maintenance and you won't have thousands of snails, as mentioned there are also fish that eat snails like chain loaches.  If you just don't like snails, remove it now before it reproduces, but there will be no harm at all from leaving it in .


----------



## sciencefiction (20 Jan 2017)

I keep snails and shrimp. What I've noticed is that when you have shrimp they outcompete the snails almost to extinction. Which leads me to believe, that shrimp and snails do the same job in a tank...detritus eaters(with some of them eating certain algae as a bonus) Now lets kill all snails and shrimp...What happens to that detritus? Does it magically disappear...no...What will happen is the next organism in line will take over, which happens to be bacteria...Bacteria needs to multiply on a far greater scale to do the same job snails/shrimp do...One can't see the bacteria and thinks...problem solved ..

However, one doesn't get to chose which bacteria multiplies out of proportion to replace the snails/shrimp. And often it is multiple type of bacteria, some of them pathogenic....

On the contrary, shrimp and snails are a great addition to breeding tanks/fry tanks because they prevent excessive food developing bad bacteria. I've had great results keeping large population of shrimp and some snails with cory fry. 

There is anecdotal evidence also that certain snails eat fungus from fish eggs too. I think there was a thread on planetcatfish about that. Yet, people always think aesthetics.and .not functionality of the entire system..

So I wonder, why doesn't anyone that has a large snail population think about the origin of the problem and the consequences of eradicating an organism completely. Why do you hate snails but treat shrimp like special subjects when essentially they play the same role?... 
I personally like all types of snails and I do not dislike how they look. I find them interesting too.. But as I said,...I was only able to keep them in fish only tanks, where the tank does not contain clown loaches...

Shrimp or clown loaches(and some other loaches) will outcompete/eradicate the snails early or later but the issue is the the tank accumulating detritus...providing overfeeding is not the origin of the problem...But if you feed a shrimp containing tank daily properly...you still won't have many snails, if any..You'll just have many more shrimp.....

So my suggestion for a solution is, get shrimp if you hate snails.. Do not kill and in fact add at least one type of larger scavenger in your tanks...otherwise be diligent with cleaning the tank properly and don't overfeed...which applies to any tank in fact unless you want to multiply something out of proportion


----------



## sciencefiction (20 Jan 2017)

Tim Harrison said:


> They can be vectors or hosts for parasites and other diseases, which can infect fish some are zoonotic, although rarely encountered in the aquarium if at all.



Hey Tim. To this I'll say that it relates majorly to wild caught fish that carry diseases which need intermediary such as snails/shrimp and a range of other inverts.... And you need that certain invert too to be in the exact tank....There are excellent meds that should sort that out from get go....praziquantel is one of them, safe to use. After that there's no fear...unless you add inverts from the wild too..or feed fish with live inverts from unknown sources...That's another reason I don't feed live food...I do, however, want to grow my own if I find a reliable source but there's none here and ebay is not the place I'd trust with things like that....

If you feed daphnia, cyclops, and the likes....they are the most common carriers along with live worms of course....because one normally breeds their own snails and shrimp and does not use them as fish food normally, or buys them as fish food....Plus of course they've been bred in aquariums for many years and are not wild caught....It is now very rare that you'll transfer a disease from common aquarium snails or shrimp but not so rare from the live food you buy for your picky fish...


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

Nicely put
Still not going to dissuade me from irradiating the little blighters on sight with extreme prejudice tho...
My top tip...if you don't want Schistosomiasis don't swim in a snail infested aquarium


----------



## sciencefiction (20 Jan 2017)

He, he  Similar applies to fish TB/the different species of mycobacteria...but they don't need an intermediary like inverts and in this case one should not use plants or fish in their tanks  You can't even kill them by boiling them for hours  very advanced species of zoonotic bacteria 

If you read some scientific papers, there's mycobacteria in everything...even drinking tap water. The latest paper I read said something like 15% of the drinking water is infected ...If you insist, I can find the paper...This bacteria can't be killed by boiling, freezing, cleaning, disinfecting..nothing. You bleach a tank...and the most robust species of it will overtake, becoming an even bigger nuisance because there's no reliable disinfectant that kills all...The only remedy is natural resistance and immunity and being healthy in general...fish or humans. The fish keeping world is a risky business...


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Jan 2017)

sciencefiction said:


> You can't even kill them by boiling them for hours  very advanced species of zoonotic bacteria


I know...there are some pretty tough 'orrible nasties out there. Better to live in blissful ignorance or denial - not in the actual Nile tho'...Sorry I'll get my coat



sciencefiction said:


> one should not use plants or fish in their tanks


Sound advice, maybe we should start a new forum for hypochondriac aquarist...

From this...





To this...


----------



## sciencefiction (20 Jan 2017)

Ha, ha. I laughed out loud here  Looks good


----------



## zozo (20 Jan 2017)

Here Dito..  I love snails if in controlled quantities ofcourse.. I guess it depends a bit on water parameters.. My water is relatively soft, it keeps snails a bit in check a lot of them do not reach adulthood and find a lot of empty baby snail shels in the substrate. For now i have collected the great pond snail - Lymnaea stagnalis, Bladder snail - Physa acuta, red ramshorn -  Planorbarius corneus and the Red rimmed melania - Melanoides tuberculata. Wonderfull creatures..

The great pond snail eats algea like a vacuumcleaner i realy see green algae disappear from the leaves it's on. Remarkable to see how fast it cleanes a rather large leaf. Actualy they are pretty fast moving if they like. Beautifull marbled grey/white shell.. 







 

Red rimmed Melania lives mainly in the substrate, only come to the surface after lights out.. Oftenly i see them in the substrate on the glass cleaning and turning the substrate over. They help to prevent cyano and green algae buildup you often see at the glass in the substrate. also beautifull snail.
No pic yet..

I have emersed plantgrowth and driftwood Physa  Acuta likes to move around in there as well. Beautifulle dark brown freckled shell.


 

Well who doesn't know the Ramshorn!? Simply beautifull.

Used to have Viviparus Viviparus in a planted fishbowl, but the last few years they are getting rare in the trade don't see them anymore in the pondshop. Realy would like a few again also a few of it's babies in the aquarium. Viviparus babies are awfully cute.. 

Just for fun this one too.. In the garden on the lookout on the carex in my pondfilter..


----------



## three-fingers (20 Jan 2017)

zozo said:


> Used to have Viviparus Viviparus in a planted fishbowl, but the last few years they are getting rare in the trade don't see them anymore in the pondshop. Realy would like a few again also a few of it's babies in the aquarium. Viviparus babies are awfully cute.


I've only seen these on eBay recently, used to get them for ponds at the LFS but I never kept them at home as they seemed to hate the tropical temperatures of the shop (even the "coldwater" tanks would be about 25*C, the whole shop was tropical lol).

I think of them as our native apple snails. I just had a look on eBay now though and there is only one single listing for these guys...it does seem they are getting less common.  

I also saw "Chinese mystery snail" for sale though so I literally just ordered one, _Bellamya chinensis_ I think, anyone heard of these before?


----------



## zozo (20 Jan 2017)

three-fingers said:


> apple snails.


As far as i know Pomacea are since 2012 no longer allowed to be imported and sold in Europe.. In european temperate climats for example spain they propagate in the wild and formed a pest for rise farmers. I believe they are afraid of them addapting to the colder climates in the rest of europe as well.

But i'm not sure i thought i still saw them lately in a tank in a lfs.. At least it look suspiciously simmular..  Probably no import and nobody is controlling local bred populations..


----------



## three-fingers (21 Jan 2017)

As far as I'm aware, there is no issue with selling apple snails in Europe, they just cant be imported into EU countries. I think it's somewhat of a grey area of legislation, there's loads of listings for apple snails on Ebay anyway!* I haven't seen them in shops in recent years though, so I suppose only UK bred ones are OK here. I wonder how the UK leaving the EU will affect the availability of apple snails  (and other banned invert/plant species). Apple snails are great, they will eat many species of aquatic plant if there's nothing tastier though.

However, I only mentioned apple snails as I was likening them to _Viviparus viviparus, _this species looks very similar to _Pomacea bridgesii _but is actually native to the UK and other countries in Europe.

*Edit: I just looked now and cant see any apple snails on Ebay . I'm sure it was only a few months ago I had some in my watch list!


----------



## john dory (21 Jan 2017)

Plus 1 for snails.....and limpets
Even a few hydra


----------



## markk (21 Jan 2017)

At the last count 5 species of snail in my main planted tank - MTS, red ramshorn, bladder, orange tylomenia and those small, flat ramshorn like ones (anyone have any idea what they are?)

In combination with the 3 shrimp species, food doesn't last long...


----------



## zozo (21 Jan 2017)

three-fingers said:


> Apple snails are great,



They are and they are funny too.. They are the clowns in the aquarium.. I always had to laugh when thy where climbing up and over something and than fall off. Never saw them climb down again.. Always falling.. It looks a bit clumsy..

Appy says Hi..


----------



## three-fingers (21 Jan 2017)

Lucky to still have one, making me miss my apple snails!   Being air-breathers, I always found it funny when they extended their siphon to the surface, then sort of "pumped" their head in and out of their shell to take in air .

I may set up a tank for them next month lol...I know where I can still get some golden ones and was planning on setting up a tank for some endler fry anyway.

I still keep the shell of the last apple snail I owned in a plant pot on my desk, got it as a wee 1cm baby about off ebay in 2007 I think and it lived for about 3 years.

The shell was a beautiful striped purple colour with bright orange spots on its body, the shell is old and faded now though:




Also, on the subject of _Bellamya chinensis _(the species I just ordered from eBay), and while we're sharing snail pictures, _maybe_ I have actually had one of these hitch-hike on plants before, it was probably eaten by an assassin snail at the time. I just found these pics of a small unidentified snail that I took in 2009:






Anyone seen a snail like that before?



markk said:


> flat ramshorn like ones (anyone have any idea what they are?)



Do they have a sort of rim to the edge of the shell? If so, sounds like_ Planorbis planorbis._

I had these in my pond and bird water bowls in my old garden. I put some in my aquarium but they never bred, so I presumed they needed either hard or cold water to breed.


----------



## zozo (22 Jan 2017)

three-fingers said:


> Anyone seen a snail like that before?



Could be a Viviparidae, seeing the snout, it looks very simular.


----------



## dw1305 (22 Jan 2017)

Hi all,





Looneeyy said:


> what sort of snails?


I have <"Freshwater Limpets"> (_Acroloxus lacustris),_ <"Red Ramshorn"> (_Planorbis rubrum_), <"MTS"> (_Melanoides tuberculata_) and <"Bladder Snail"> (_Physella acuta_). I deliberately got the MTS, all the rest of have arrived on their own with plants etc. 

I occasionally get small <"Pond Snails"> (_Lymnaea stagnalis_) come in from the _Daphnia_ buckets outside and I repatriate them.

I tried Assassin Snails (<"_Clea helene">_), but the water was too soft for them. I've never tried Nerites etc, as I know they need harder water.

cheers Darrel


----------



## LondonDragon (22 Jan 2017)

Gotta love snails, I have them in all my tanks intentionally  buying some more this week!


----------



## Yo-han (22 Jan 2017)

I'm not in the good or bad camp, but right in the middle. I don't like to see (too many of) them, but I don't mind having them. As said before, they eat dead plants, algae, left over food, detritus and all kind of waste. So in fact, they are useful! I did introduce MTS in my paludarium and black water tank to keep the sand aerated.
On the other hand, I hate seeing them in my aquascape tanks, just because they distract from the scape. The small Physella snails are in all of my tanks and as long as the previous mentioned food sources aren't available, they barely reproduce. So this way I don't mind the 10 snails in the tank. In almost all cases when people have a 'snail outbreak' they either have algae, dead plants or they feed too much (9 out of 10 times the last one). Reduce food and snails will be no problem!


----------



## zozo (22 Jan 2017)

dw1305 said:


> I've never tried Nerites etc, as I know they need harder water.



I once had one, the spiky shell and it indeed lost all it's spikes in my soft water after a few months.. No idea actualy if co2 acidity is even worse for snails. I guess so because in my high tech i have almost non.. Occasionaly i see a little bladder snail but not to often the rest just disappears. Anyway the Nerite i wasn't realy sad about it when it was gone, they can produce a lot of eggs scattered all over the hardscape as tiny light colored specks, doesn't look so good on the driftwood. And they need salt water to reproduce so the eggs stay there latently for months to come. Even a toothbrush couldn't get them off, they use Nerite superglue. Had to use a needle like a tooth pic and remove them one by one. Not that i did there were far to many, but that was the only way.


----------



## mik778866 (22 Jan 2017)

sciencefiction said:


> shrimp and snails do the same job in a tank...detritus eaters(with some of them eating certain algae as a bonus)
> I personally like all types of snails and I do not dislike how they look.



Hi.
Are assassin snails also detritus eaters/decomposes?
How would you rate them.


----------



## sciencefiction (22 Jan 2017)

mik778866 said:


> Hi.
> Are assassin snails also detritus eaters/decomposes?
> How would you rate them.



In a way yes, only that they are more opportunistic carnivores rather than detritus eaters so they wouldn't be my choice in a tank with other small inverts.


----------



## markk (23 Jan 2017)

> Do they have a sort of rim to the edge of the shell? If so, sounds like_ Planorbis planorbis._
> 
> I had these in my pond and bird water bowls in my old garden. I put some in my aquarium but they never bred, so I presumed they needed either hard or cold water to breed.



I think they probably are planorbis - though they stay very small in this tank so very hard to make out any detail (tank is quite warm though so maybe not ideal for them if they're temperate). Might be a different species - there are loads listed on Wikipedia...

Thanks and regards, Mark


----------



## zozo (17 Feb 2017)

Another one..  It took me a while to get a realy good look, because i already spotted it a few times. months ago, but it was still to small to say and always a bit hidden in a dark spot behind some leaves, it doesn't show often. At first i thought it was just a emersed wandering Physa Acuta. But today it showed up on top and i'm quite sure it aint a Physa Acuta. and it aint a Lymnaea.. 





I pretty sure, 80%, it is a Amber Snail - Succinea putris  Don't ask me how the heck it got up there, the only thing i did put there was some moss i took from my swamp bucket from the garden. So i guess it sneaked in with that as baby ot egg about a year ago. it seems to like it in there and not yet seen any plant damage it might still be living of some biofilm on the wood and mosses. Funny little girl/guy..


----------



## dw1305 (18 Feb 2017)

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> I pretty sure, 80%, it is a Amber Snail - Succinea putris


Definitely looks like _Succinea. _They are quite common in the UK around muddy ponds etc. 

The other option is the "Wandering Pond Snail"  <"(_Radix balthica)"> _they also have a very wide basal shell whorl and they arrive in all sorts of unlikely places, but yours looks more like _Succinea.
_
cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305 (18 Feb 2017)

Hi all, 





zozo said:


> No idea actualy if co2 acidity is even worse for snails.


 It doesn't really make any difference, if you have hard water normally the snail will be able to make new shell at the mantle, and the older shell whorls will remain intact. In soft water, with limited calcium and carbonates, only a very limited range of snails can persist, and they will grew very slowly. 

The problem in hard water, when you  change the CO2 ~ HCO3 ~ pH equilibrium by adding CO2, is that the older shell whorls start to erode as soon as the pH is under pH7. When you stop adding CO2 the additional CaCO3 that was held in solution by the elevated level of CO2 will precipitate back out, but this doesn't help the snail because it can only build new shell at the mantle, and can't replace the older shell that has gone into solution when the CO2 levels were elevated.

There is a more complete discussion in <"Nerite snails in high tech.">

cheers Darrel


----------



## zozo (18 Feb 2017)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all, Definitely looks like _Succinea. _They are quite common in the UK around muddy ponds etc.
> 
> The other option is the "Wandering Pond Snail"  <"(_Radix balthica)"> _they also have a very wide basal shell whorl and they arrive in all sorts of unlikely places, but yours looks more like _Succinea.
> _
> cheers Darrel



In our language it is just called Oval pond snail.. Didn't know about its wandering emersed habbits..  This is Radix balthica submersed i guess.. It has indeed a simular shell, i think the pointed triangular shaped feelers other Lymnaea have as well are the most obvious destinct differences..





Seen from above


----------



## SinkorSwim (20 Feb 2017)

I have been inundated with bright orange ramshorn snails since introducing them a year ago in order to help with tank some pesky algae - boy did they make short work of it.. I've also see them 'clean' an algae covered anubia to shining brightness. if I ever have or see algae issues I always drop the photo period and introduce a few ramshorns. they are voracious and certainly my lot don't eat the healthy plant leaf. 
I gather they're good for shrimp as well as being detritus hoovers. although they do smother any food i intentionally place for the inverts so it does pay to make sure the shrimp get a chance at feeding time.

the population very near came to dangerous levels in my first red cherry tank but ten mins a day for a week pulled it back. I was going to sell some on, they absolutely love mulberry and spinach, and seemingly multiply in days.


----------



## zozo (4 Mar 2017)

dw1305 said:


> "Wandering Pond Snail" <"(_Radix balthica)"> _they also have a very wide basal shell whorl and they arrive in all sorts of unlikely places



Haha found me one yesterday, in a bucket of water with rotting vegitation from last year. Last year they were cleaning out a local pond from Hornwort, took some and threw it in a bucket.. 7 months later i see this crawling around.


 
Simular body features, but very different house compaired to the great pond snail. Of course it is in my tank now..


----------



## zozo (6 Mar 2017)

Having a party.. 


 
Or both want the same leaf? Well, babies maybe, do they cross breed?? Nice way to compair the difference..


----------

