# Amano and Blue Ram



## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2017)

Anybody tried this combination successfully? Been having a stare into my tank and came to the conclusion that what it might be lacking right now is some feature fish. My LFS has some nice pairs of Blue Rams in and I'm so tempted but I have quite a few Amano shrimp in there. 
Won't risk it if there's chance the Rams will bother them. 


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## Shinobi (10 May 2017)

I have experienced no problems with this combination whatsoever


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## alto (10 May 2017)

Variable - some rams _mostly_ ignore shrimp, others are avid shrimp hunters, few are completely disinterested

There are lots of tanks with strong breeding populations of cherry shrimp that seem little affected by ram addition

The last group of juvenile rams I added (just too cute with surprisingly good conformation to resist) surprised me by falling into the avid shrimp hunter category   - they displayed great team hunting skills & quickly dispatched even large adult shrimp   

Note that ram "pairs"  easily break & reform, I usually keep groups of 5-7 minimum, if hoping for breeding I try for more females than males ... my current quintet seem to be all female


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2017)

Thanks for the input guys. Going either way is my worry so was looking for a general census to gauge the risk. I have seen tanks with RCS and Betta in living in harmony. In my case I heard that if the shrimp were in first the fish have less tendency to attack which wasn't the case with my Betta. It actively spent all day rooting in among crevices trying to flush out RCS which it did quite effectively.

@alto were they Amano your Rams attacked or RCS? I have 6 Amano which are probably around 2/3cm in length and the Rams in the LFS are quite small juveniles probably around 2cm themselves. I'm thinking maybe with the fish being moved and a bit timid until they settle in the sight of a shrimp same size or bigger may be intimidating which the Rams log in their heads is not a good idea. By the time the Rams are big enough to have a tackle hopefully they are used to them being around and not seen as a food source?

I'd like the Amano to stay if possible, right now the Amano, my Ottos and I are tag teaming some green filament algae which seems to be working slowly. Although, it has to be said the Amano lazy boys would much prefer to just snatch a bit of fish food and head off round the back of the tank to feast on it hence me having "Famine Friday" I feed the fish early Thursday then don't feed again to Saturday evening hoping hunger will encourage the clean up crew to earn their keep.

The Rams on the other hand are purely cosmetic, just for a bit of eye candy. I have kept them many times before but just a single pair and I've always lost one or the other through what appeared to be pop eye or stopping feeding and wasted away. Maybe down to cleanliness I'm not sure but that was in community tanks. I think I might have more success with my current cleaner regime, fingers crossed anyway. What would you advise in a 600x450x450 100 or so ltr if I do go for it, 1xpair, 1male 2xfemale or two pair you reckon?


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2017)

Just to add, I wonder if adding more amano would be a good idea. A swarm of them knocking about may be less of a novelty than the appearance now and again of the odd one but on the other hand if my rams do have a taste for them that's some expensive live food I'm putting in there.


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## roadmaster (10 May 2017)

I think the ram's would pay not much attention to the Amano shrimp up until nesting area's are invaded.
Then the Amano may pay a price.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2017)

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. If the shrimp have the sense to get out the way I don't think the Rams would keep up the chase preferring to stay close to the site. 

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## alto (10 May 2017)

Back when I almost always had a few rams in my tanks, I'd begin with a group of young juveniles (I look for 2cm TL - note wild type fish are small, not the monsters you can find in many shops these days that have often been hormoned & hybridized  ..... seriously fish has a great photo series on their M ramirezi profile), adding them to tanks with established plants & shrimp populations.
Most coexist quite fine with shrimp, mostly just taking some babies here & there - if you have a thick MC carpet you'll see the rams hunting as they sense the shrimp activity below but can't find the source ... mine never seemed to associate the young shrimp on plants/rocks with what they found so interesting below

My previous group began as 7 very nice electric blue juv's, they did great in the 90 x 45 tank, no losses until I somehow introduced a resistant strain of ich (I quarantine fish before adding to the main tank, I'm still at a loss how this began except with a possible carrier fish) ... of course by then I'd also spread it to both tanks as I sometimes move fish back & forth, use same syphon, nets, hands etc - long story short, 2 months later remaining fish & tanks were ich free
(successful tx was feeding metronidazole soaked food for a month! & frequent water changes, with attention to substrate vacuuming) 
My electric blues were down to a trio, 2 male, 1 subordinate female .... I tried every combination possible, they existed but not thrived, I couldn't find more of same quality so finally gave them to a friend with a group
It's unusual that none of these 3 rams were happy as single fish - while they prefer groups, most do fine as singles.
Note the 2 males were v dominant, the surviving female had always been the least fish & seemed happy in that role, in addition these fish were notably shy

I spotted my present group at a local shop that had just gotten in various rams, gold, electric blue, German blue - I bought 5 from the "gold" group as they were a color morph I'd not seen before - still kick myself for not buying 7 but they were rather $$ & it's quite unlikely to get 5 same sex especially after choosing a size range of juveniles
Added these barely 2 cm fish to the 60 x 45 x 52 (tall), heavily planted tank, left lights etc off for the evening
Turned on lights next day, shortly thereafter see the ram group travel to one area, first fish dives & smacks the shrimp, second & third fish are bang, bang, then its shrimp for all (rams) - there were only a dozen or so shrimp culls in that tank so I left things as they were
Some time later I did a rescape & found a lone surviving big female who'd obviously figured out how to remain v well hidden
I mention height on this tank as this group of rams is quite outgoing & utilize every part of the tank in their "busyness"

Note I've never observed rams to be sensitive to large water changes, but as I do large frequent water changes, tank & tap parameters are always similar

Amano's are usually the toughest shrimp - waving off fish with their antennae (few fish seem to tolerate the touch, preferring to avoid/withdraw) or going underground & surviving fish attention that way - of course then they aren't algae crew either, though as you've observed Amano's love their fish food! more than algae anyway 






AverageWhiteBloke said:


> What would you advise in a 600x450x450 100 or so ltr if I do go for it, 1xpair, 1male 2xfemale or two pair you reckon?


As with any dwarf cichlids I always recommend to begin with a group, then remove individuals which don't thrive ....  I rarely need to remove rams from a group situation, even broody couples seem quite tolerant with no pysical damage inflicted - I'm not looking to breed so don't segregate pairs

If you follow Green Pekoe Pond you'll see a very nice ram pair (temporary boarders that seem to be a very well matched & dedicated pair)


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## AverageWhiteBloke (10 May 2017)

alto said:


> If you follow Green Pekoe Pond you'll see a very nice ram pair (temporary boarders that seem to be a very well matched & dedicated pair)



Just had to read the entire thing from start to finish, there's a hour of my life I'm not getting back but well worth it. There was something for every one in that thread. Excellent stuff! I saw that post early on but never followed it. One thing it has convinced me to do is have a punt on the Rams. Rams were some of the first fish I ever kept some 30 years ago. I can remember seeing them in the LFS and thinking that they would be marine fish. Never had a lot of luck with them but that was probably through my own ignorance. As in the Green Pekoe thread I suffered the same disappearance of fry which looking back without filter guards and other community fish was inevitable. I moved mine to a 5 gall tank I had been breeding bettas in with a sponge filter and no substrate for cleanliness but the fry still got eaten. The female then developed an ulcer and died and I gave up after that.

Filters been cleaned today and a large water change scheduled for Friday but I think Saturday morning I'll be going through for some. Come Saturday they will have been in the LFS for two weeks so any issues should have been showing by now. Might grab a few more Amano while I'm in and try my theory on overwhelming them with shrimp.


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## roadmaster (11 May 2017)

Wise in my view to do the water change a day before possibly placing new fish from quarantine? into the display tank.
This gives the new fishes no matter species a week to further acclimate to our tank's before next scheduled water change.
I would be more tempted to try and source young Ram's than possibly tired old breeder's from ?
The Ram's when young are fairly drab looking but they color up as the grow.
They offer some in stores here that are very pretty,but could easily be nearing their golden year's considering they only live to maybe three year's.
Once kept a group of the gold Veil type Ram's with Discus.
Although both species would produce egg's,my water was too hard for proper fertilization I suspect and I used to watch both eat egg's from each other's clutch whenever they could sneak in.
Noted the fierceness of the small Ram's when trying to fend off the advances of much larger Discus.
Maybe local fish club or breeder's live nearby where I might be able to source some juveniles as I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread.


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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 May 2017)

So I've had my Rams for two weeks now and already they've spawned today, they don't even look mature enough themselves the make being bigger at about 2 5 cm from nose to tail. 
They took a bit of settling in, I don't think they were partial to raised co2 levels and seemed to keep out of the way during co2 injection. For the last week they seemed to be out and about more often until I got in from work today and no sign of them, spotted the male looking a bit stripey and watched where he was going to and. Spotted the female in the back corner in a pit with about 80 eggs I would say.

Regarding the shrimp, I have seen the Rams near to both the RCS and Amano and they seemed indifferent, the most they did was waft them with their  fins broad side. Having said that I don't seem to see the shrimp as much.

Can't see much happening with this spawn in a community tank but at least it must mean they're happy with the conditions.  

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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 May 2017)

Some quick phone shots.








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## AverageWhiteBloke (22 May 2017)

Just for a sense of scale there, as you can see next to s.repens and ember tetra they're about the same size as the Embers. 



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## alto (23 May 2017)

Rams do seem to be easy spawners at that size/age - hopefully they'll keep practising


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## AverageWhiteBloke (24 May 2017)

Yeah good to watch Alto but I'm more into the fish rather than a breeding situation. I tend to find like many before me that they are avid egg eaters due to being separated from their young by commercial breeders. I did have some serious attempts at breeding them and raising fry some years ago but I found it just wasn't happening. 
I just hope that breeding doesn't weaken the female with egg production and hounding off the male but to be fair she seems to be wearing the trousers in this relationship so far. 
You never know though we can only dream. I only got one pair as all my LFS seem to have a policy of not taking in fish so it's very difficult to re-house any that weren't fitting into the group.  

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## Tankless (22 Feb 2020)

How did you find keeping the rams with shrimp?


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