# My plants never pearl



## maboleth (12 Mar 2017)

I started using pressurized CO2. Currently drop checker is green, my KH is 7, Ph 7, so I should have 21ppm of CO2 at all times. I have 250l tank with 3x39w T5 light bulbs.

However, not a single plant pearls. I've noticed a stream of bubbles from Anubias nana leaf, but that's it.
I expected my mosses, ferns and Bacopas would start releasing the oxygen but not so...

Is there some other factor involved for pearling? Should I raise CO2 to 30ppm? My plants are slow-growing though, so I followed the recommendation from Tropica for their low and medium plant CO2 level.


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## Julian (12 Mar 2017)

In my experience, pearling only occurs under high light conditions. 

I have a carpet of HC, only the section directly underneath the lights pearls, the other parts of the carpet not so much.


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## maboleth (12 Mar 2017)

Thanks, well I have about 0,5w/l. I hope the stem plants (Bacopa & Ludwigia) will pearl once they grow some more.


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## shrimpy1 (12 Mar 2017)

What are you feeding them with?


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## maboleth (12 Mar 2017)

KNO3 as needed, Easylife Profito liquid fertilizer daily, Sera root tabs & JBL substrate. Though I have to say, I suffered big outbreak of cyanobacteria for months. I did some thorough cleaning 10 days ago. So this is my take to make the plants grow as fast and healthy as possible.


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## foxfish (12 Mar 2017)

Pearling is not necessary to get good plant growth but it does look good!
You could just temporarily suspend a desk lamp, or something similar with a bright bulb, to see what happens.
If your plants have enough CO2 reaching them they will pear under bright light but it is a balancing act if you want to avoid unwanted algae!


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## papa_c (12 Mar 2017)

I only see pearling if I switch my filter off and let the flow stop, then the plants pearl, if you have high LPH turnover you may find the O2 is washes off the plant before it accumulates to large bubbles.


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## maboleth (13 Mar 2017)

papa_cee said:


> I only see pearling if I switch my filter off and let the flow stop, then the plants pearl, if you have high LPH turnover you may find the O2 is washes off the plant before it accumulates to large bubbles.



That will possibly be the case! All plants that I expected to pearl are under some heavy stream of water. But if I turn off the filter, CO2 will stop too since I placed diffuser in it.

@foxfish nice idea, will try it! 

Thanks everyone.


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## zozo (13 Mar 2017)

Next to light source it also depends a bit on the plant sp.  Ferns and Anubias are slow growers, slow metabolism. And when it comes to plants with faster metabolism then leave shape and surface plays a role too.. For example a feather leaf shape (cabomba, myriophillum etc.) will trap and hold much more oxygene bubbles.

I've seen Myriophillum create and trap oxygene bubbles in the garden pond on a sunny day..


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## Progen (13 Mar 2017)

Now that you've started it, this is the first time I've noticed my ferns oxygenating. The anubiases release like crazy daily but I've never noticed the ferns doing it until today.

ps. I know I know. Black tips are no good.


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## Soilwork (13 Mar 2017)

If the plants are in good shape and are non limited you can induce pearling by increasing the light intensity.


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## Daveslaney (14 Mar 2017)

Heres one i did around 6 months ago.
Tanks changed abit since lol.


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## Soilwork (14 Mar 2017)

Fantastic scape. Very inspiring.


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## Ed.Junior (14 Mar 2017)

maboleth said:


> I started using pressurized CO2. Currently drop checker is green, my KH is 7, Ph 7, so I should have 21ppm of CO2 at all times.



I would advise you to rely on something else instead of the pH/KH chart. It is very easy to get skewed results. A bit of acidity and the whole table is off.
Same problem with the drop checker, it is a good visual hint of CO2 presence, but not a precise measure.

I can assure you that even if you have around 21ppm of CO2 at one point in time, you do not have 21ppm at all times. Even with a pH controller it does not get that precise.

Good thing is that this precision is not needed. An easy way to check your CO2 concentration is to measure the pH drop caused by the CO2 injection. A 1 point pH drop is okay in most cases. With a 1.5 pH drop and a minimal amount of ferts, light would the only thing left for pearling.

Also consider that some plants will pearl like crazy, while others barely do.




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## Daveslaney (14 Mar 2017)

Soilwork said:


> Fantastic scape. Very inspiring.


Thankyou.

Very nice Ed.


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## maboleth (15 Mar 2017)

Ed.Junior said:


> I would advise you to rely on something else instead of the pH/KH chart. It is very easy to get skewed results. A bit of acidity and the whole table is off.
> Same problem with the drop checker, it is a good visual hint of CO2 presence, but not a precise measure.
> 
> I can assure you that even if you have around 21ppm of CO2 at one point in time, you do not have 21ppm at all times. Even with a pH controller it does not get that precise.
> ...




Woa, your tank is beautiful and looks like you activated some air stones.  Delicious.

As for drop checker, I use 4dH solution, not aquarium water.
Before CO2 injection I had 8-8,5pH. Now it's a solid 7pH every time I measure it. So the light is the main limiter here. I won't go for higher W/l because of the algae problem. I suffered from - and I'm still cleaning of - cyanobacteria. Today I bought Ludwigia repens v. rubin & Rotala macrandra, so I will see how that goes. Hoping for the best, but experimenting with that Rotala, thinking it might need brighter lighting.


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## Soilwork (15 Mar 2017)

Lovely tanks.  Do you know your par? What kind of lights are you running and what's your fert routine to the two tanks video'd.

Op hope you don't mind the ever so slightly off topic questions.


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## Ed.Junior (15 Mar 2017)

maboleth said:


> Before CO2 injection I had 8-8,5pH. Now it's a solid 7pH every time I measure it. So the light is the main limiter here.



Thanks man 

I would measure the CO2 on the same day.
• Take aquarium water and let it rest 24h or air it with an air stone. Measure it. Because the CO2 level in water is in balance with the atmosphere, this water sample should have roughly 2 - 0.5 ppm of CO2. You can use this value to "calibrate" the pH/KH chart to your tank.
• Measure it right before CO2 starts.
• Halfway through the photo period.
• When CO2 goes off. 

This way you will know your CO2 during the day, initial and final values, night degass, etc.



Off-topic: around 150 PAR. 4x24w T5HO  plus a 39w LED Chihiros, over a 60 liter tank. Ferts: 10ppm NO3, 3.5ppm PO4, 10ppm K, 0.3ppm Fe-EDTA 3x per week.


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## Daveslaney (15 Mar 2017)

Light is Arcadia 120 cm LED OTL its a mix of 10 and 1.5 watt leds not sure of the par but it very high.On the arcadia website it is quoted at 280 par at 300mm through water at full intensity.
Ferts APFUK EI so NPK targets much the same as above. Iron twice weekly.


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## Ed.Junior (15 Mar 2017)

Just a clarification: those are not my targets, thats a single dose, 3x per week. Iron on alternating days, also 3x per week. 

My weekly targets are:

30 ppm NO3
10 ppm PO4
30 ppm K
1 ppm Fe-EDTA

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## Soilwork (15 Mar 2017)

Thanks for the info.  I'm thinking my light is lower using one 60cm Chihiros at about 30cm height on 85 litre tank currently open top.  

You guys are using a lot of light! Also just to for clarification you only mention fe EDTA but what about the rest of the micros?


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## Ed.Junior (15 Mar 2017)

Soilwork said:


> Thanks for the info.  I'm thinking my light is lower using one 60cm Chihiros at about 30cm height on 85 litre tank currently open top.
> 
> You guys are using a lot of light! Also just to for clarification you only mention fe EDTA but what about the rest of the micros?


Im using TNC Trace, so the trace elements are there. Im also playing with DTPA and HEDTA, but that is something else.

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## Daveslaney (16 Mar 2017)

My ferts are simple
APFUK recipe
Macro
4tsp potassium nitrate
1tsp potassium phosphate
6tsp magnesium sulphate
500ml water
micro
1tsp chelated trace
500ml water
Each dosed 50ml 3 x week on alt days.
Chelated iron13.2%
2tsp
500ml water
Dosed 25ml twice weekly
Yes my light is high 7hr photo period 45min ramp up ramp down.The light also has 4 timers for the diff leds so only 4hrs at the end of the photoperiod is the light on full intensity.


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## maboleth (16 Mar 2017)

Ed.Junior said:


> Thanks man
> 
> Off-topic: around 150 PAR. 4x24w T5HO  plus a 39w LED Chihiros, over a 60 liter tank. Ferts: 10ppm NO3, 3.5ppm PO4, 10ppm K, 0.3ppm Fe-EDTA 3x per week.



So basically you have 135w over a 60 liter tank! :O If I did that, my plants and fish would be swimming in an algae jungle.

I'm fighting with algae in my 250 liter tank, lit by 117w T5 bulbs. It's currently under control, but requires almost a daily intervention, rubbing certain parts of rocks and wood and removing cyano patches from the gravel. I'm firing at full force for my plants to start growing as fast as they can, to outcompete these nasties.


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## Ed.Junior (16 Mar 2017)

It is all about balance. There is nothing wrong with your lights. It is actually better to balance things out with less light.

Keep your CO2 in check. Go for at least 1.2 pH drop. This will make things worse for the Cyanobacteria and better for the plants. Keep dosing your ferts, aiming for the EI concentration levels. And a bit of Glutaraldehyde, as instructed, might help as well.

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## maboleth (16 Mar 2017)

Well my CO2 lowers pH for about 1-1,5. My nitrates are 15ppm, phosphates 1, if anything I should have a green spot algae, but I still have damn patches of Cyano appearing on the gravel every day!!! I also use EasyCarbo when needed and have upped the water flow from 800 to 1200l/h. Makes me mad, I don't know how to stop this thing, except turning the gravel every day and cleaning the glass.


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## Ed.Junior (16 Mar 2017)

Well, you could use medicine, but I would use it as a last measure.

For how long have you been having this issue?


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## maboleth (16 Mar 2017)

Ed.Junior said:


> Well, you could use medicine, but I would use it as a last measure.
> 
> For how long have you been having this issue?



Far too long actually. I got some major cyano & diatoms infestation, neglected a tank a bit, then cleaned it thoroughly (but biologically active - didn't use any chemicals or bacteria killers). Started using the pressurized CO2, upped the stream flow, cleaned as much detritus that I could, bought more plants, added KNO3 to help combat the issue.

While better, it's by no means good. For just 24h the patches form on the gravel and the glass. Also diatoms. They always go hand in hand with cyano. First cyano then diatoms.

Seems like, whatever change I did, even radical one, produced almost no long term results.  The real cause, unknown to me, remains.


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## Ed.Junior (16 Mar 2017)

A lot of people say yhere is a connection between poor oxigen levels and diatoms. Do you have movement on the water surface?



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## maboleth (16 Mar 2017)

I do have plenty of water movement. The entire section of spray bar is turned towards the water surface. Thanks for trying to help btw!


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## foxfish (16 Mar 2017)

Perhaps your flow could be adjusted slightly lower so it is aimed at the opposite rim of the tank, little adjustments can change things considerably.
If you are getting a 1.5 ph drop that is right at the upper limit ( My fish would suffer if I drop mine more than 1.1 but your tank could well be different) at least for most folks tanks it would be!
So perhaps you should look at you flow control?


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## Soilwork (17 Mar 2017)

I think since the co2 beating that has existed for some time on this forum many if not most people are pretty adept at delivering enough now.  I think you are limited somewhere else nutrient wise and you have too much light whist the plants are not growing which is making the issue worse. 

Also adjustments take time.  Clive once said that things only go bad in a high light tank fast and I tend to agree.

It takes a lot of work and patience to get it right and it is about finding that balance. 

I am only just turning the corner now on my 85 litre.  I've struggled since setup.  In hindsight I know that I probably started off expecting too much.  Pummelling my newly purchased emersed grown plants with high light, nutrients, flow and co2.  Logical reasoning often doesn't give reward in this hobby and things turned sour pretty quickly.  Microorganisms and fertile sediments play large roles in the health of aquatic plants. 

Here is an example of how too much of something based on logical decision making can turn out to be detrimental.  

Trying to improve my situation and thinking I didn't have enough calcium I added EI calcium chloride.  I also haven't dosed potassium religiously beforehand but my Hygrophila was fine before then.  Now a week later my hygrophila pinnatifida has developed pinholes on all leaves including new.  

Calcium and potassium compete for uptake in a plants so by adding extra calcium I have tipped the balance.  Only plant affected is the hygrophila which is known to suffer potassium deficiency faster than most.  Also the new calcium crust that develops when my water evaporates tells me u already had enough calcium.

I've lost my point but I think what I'm trying to say is take things slow and one at a time.  Start by slowing everything down by reducing light. Do back to back 90% water changes to get you aquarium water more like your tap. And dose nutrients dry.  Remove algae manually because if it's there you are just feeding it every time you add something.  It has to be removed then the plants fed but don't overdo it with the ferts then increase as the plants grow in.


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## AquaLady (14 Apr 2017)

I thought u leave water out for 30 hours?

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