# Taller bodied fish



## paul.in.kendal (20 Jan 2021)

I'm after a shoal of small fish for my high aspect ratio tank - it's 100x45x55cms tall. As George farmer says in his new book:
"Taller ranks suit taller-bodied fish and shallower tanks more streamline species".
I've had harlequins before, and I'm tempted to have them again - right size, right shape and very beautiful.
Any suggestions of small, peaceful tall-bodied alternatives?


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## Wolf6 (20 Jan 2021)

Red phantom tetra is a fun fish, easy, long lived (mine are close to 4 years now, lost 0 since day 1) and fairly active. Males can put up fun shows showing off and fake-battling. Others in that family share the taller build.


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## mort (20 Jan 2021)

I'm a big fan of phantom tetra as well, with a preference for black phantoms due mostly to the males. Kitty tetra are underrated as are lemon or pristella tetra but the one I'd like to use in the future is the reed tetra (terrible picture of them but Google has some more impressive ones Hyphessobrycon elachys ).


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## paul.in.kendal (20 Jan 2021)

Great suggestions - some good ideas there, plenty to think about.


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## Steve Buce (20 Jan 2021)

Dwarf Neon blue rainbowfish
Congo tetra or a similar species


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## EA James (20 Jan 2021)

Another vote for Lemon Tetra, I had the orange variety. Not sure of the correct name but a guy in my lfs said they were called bolivion tetra?
Beautiful colours on them.
Hatchet fish might be a good option and another favourite of mine are Honey Gourami
Nice tank by the way 
Cheers


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## paul.in.kendal (20 Jan 2021)

Lemon tetra do look very nice indeed. Not so sure about hatchet fish - with an open top I think they might take a jump? Great looking though.


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## EA James (21 Jan 2021)

paul.in.kendal said:


> Not so sure about hatchet fish - with an open top I think they might take a jump?


I haven't kept them before although i was tempted by some marbled hatchet fish i saw in my lfs last year, just a deeper bodied fish that sprung to mind! 

Cheers


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## dw1305 (21 Jan 2021)

Hi all,


paul.in.kendal said:


> with an open top I think they might take a jump?


They are unsuitable for an open top, even with the water level dropped. They get very excited when they get a food they like (Mosquito larvae, Fruit-flies) and <"will jump as soon as the aquarium lid is off">.

cheers Darrel


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## paul.in.kendal (21 Jan 2021)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> They are unsuitable for an open top, even with the water level dropped. They get very excited when they get a food they like (Mosquito larvae, Fruit-flies) and will jump as soon as the aquarium lid is off.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I've just got George Farmer's book and there's an inference he uses Amano shrimp in open-topped aquaria - I thought this was no-no too? Maybe I'm just misreading him?


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## PARAGUAY (21 Jan 2021)

Black Widow tetras can look stunning against in a well planted aquarium. They have a reputation of being a bit nippy but not found this have 10 or more. Lemon Tera fan too and keep an eye out for Diamond tetras. Have a light in room desklamp or similar on when the tank lights go off so has not to prevent tank jumpers. Learned that to my cost with killifish


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## paul.in.kendal (21 Jan 2021)

That's interesting - why would a light on stop then from jumping?


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## PARAGUAY (21 Jan 2021)

Hi paul its no guarantee but when tank lights go off in a darkened room it can spook the fish as often lights suddenly coming on in darkness. If you have a table lamp or something still on its not such a sudden change to the fish. Some fish will always need a cover .


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## paul.in.kendal (21 Jan 2021)

Thanks for that. I'll bear it in mind if things start chucking themselves out, onto the floor!


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## mort (21 Jan 2021)

With some leds you can reduce the lighting slowly over a period of time until it's dark and this is great for fish. They get a little spooked as no one suddenly turns the sun off in nature.
My tank get direct sun so in the winter it's dark when the light goes off and I hear my fish jump (I have glass cover so they don't escape and have never caused any injury that I know of) but in the summer when it's still lightish outside this doesn't happen. I've been meaning to order a controller for my leds but haven't got round to it yet. Floating plants can help reduce jumping fish as they feel more secure.


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## castle (21 Jan 2021)

Amanos in open top tanks, I lose about 1/2. I stopped adding them after then 3rd loss.  I've kept Carnegiella myersi, and Carnegiella strigata. Both will fly if given the chance. I tried in vain to get both to spawn, I'd like to try again one day. 

I don't think I can recommend many more fish, other than some classic gourami and barbs. I have a soft spot for Parambassis ranga, if you can find them.


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## paul.in.kendal (21 Jan 2021)

mort said:


> With some leds you can reduce the lighting slowly over a period of time until it's dark and this is great for fish. They get a little spooked as no one suddenly turns the sun off in nature.
> My tank get direct sun so in the winter it's dark when the light goes off and I hear my fish jump (I have glass cover so they don't escape and have never caused any injury that I know of) but in the summer when it's still lightish outside this doesn't happen. I've been meaning to order a controller for my leds but haven't got round to it yet. Floating plants can help reduce jumping fish as they feel more secure.


I've got 2x24w fluorescents and a 150w metal halide. The fluorescents come on half an hour before the MH and turn off half an hour after it, so it's not quite such a shock. And I have amazon frogbit too (just ordered some phyllanthus fluitans from @EA James as well 👍🏻). 
But no Amano or other jumpers for me.


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## Wolf6 (21 Jan 2021)

paul.in.kendal said:


> I've just got George Farmer's book and there's an inference he uses Amano shrimp in open-topped aquaria - I thought this was no-no too? Maybe I'm just misreading him?


I think it really depends, in all my years of keeping amano (8 years now) I've had 1 that I found on the floor, out of 20 or so over that time period. I dont consider them jumpers and have them in my open tanks.


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## CooKieS (23 Jan 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> I think it really depends, in all my years of keeping amano (8 years now) I've had 1 that I found on the floor, out of 20 or so over that time period. I dont consider them jumpers and have them in my open tanks.


I lost the most of them in tanks with wood reaching the surface, they love to climb it and then escape. Didn’t lost one in my old iwagumi setup.

I lost some neocaridina the same way too.


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## Gill (23 Jan 2021)

Roberti tetra, nice pinkish body with red and black and white in the finnage.
Bentos tetra, similar shape and colour to the Roberti.


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## Millns84 (23 Jan 2021)

Would emperor tetras count? Sort of inbetween in body shape but the males shown some impressive finnage as they mature. 

My columbian tetras are also quite impressive.


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## paul.in.kendal (23 Jan 2021)

More great suggestions. I'll post up here once I've made a decision and a purchase. Thanks everybody!


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## Simon Cole (24 Jan 2021)

I love your tank. We keep lots of species of _nanostomus. _Of this genus, _eques _is my favourite, followed by _rubrocaudatus, mortenthaleri, _and good old _marginatus. Eques _is a very hard fish to feed, but will take small grindal worms, springtails, aphids, especially live mosquito larvae (small ones) - very hard to feed initially so you need expert help. None of these would meet George Farmers viewpoint, and neither would the killifish _Epiplatys annulatus_ _- _which is my favourite species of all time. Check that little fella out. But you must have very slow flows for both _n. eques_ and _Epiplatys annulatus, _not the others.

If you did want to be like George, then get a shoal of 5 or 6 Black Phantom Tetra _Hyphessobrycon megalopterus, _AND a group of 8 or 9 harlequins. This is my favourite formula for the perfect community tank. It becomes so lively with both of these species, harlequins shoaling above the tetras, never fails to blow me away. Both are great surface feeders - ideal for fruit flies - saving you a fortune on flake foods, yuk. No issues, fully compatible.

Harlequins come from the genus _trigonostigma. _The classical ones with the black triangle look okay, but I had a really interesting subspecies a few decades ago, with a smaller triangle, that we haven't seen since; I cannot find any good classification from my books. Familiarise yourself with the entire genus and go for something a bit interesting, but not those mutant purple and green ones (unless you like them). They are excellent fish. Please feed them fruit flies - learn to culture well - they really deserve this feeding technique and the splashes are so fun to watch. Like dive-bombers (so do the phantoms). It blows me away.

The poor old cherry barb deserves a lot more love. The females have lovely round bodies and the males go deep red. They are extinct in the wild    If I had to choose just one fish that really makes me think about the meaning of life. It is the poor, under-loved cherry barb. As an environmentalist, I cannot help but keep one or two. It reminds me how low humans have sunk.

Forgetting all the aquascaping faff. If you want a friend waiting for you when you get back from home, then buy a betta. I talk to mine. He eats from my hand and interacts - telling us when he is hungry. I even move him around the room into different tanks when he gets bored, because he knows what you are doing, which makes getting undressed a bit embarrassing - I cover the tank. My mum thinks he is great. They are shrimp and small fish safe - reports of nipping are fake or historic. Favourite food - california blackworms.

Something I would like to achieve is a tank full of golden-sunset honey gouramis. Practically brighter than any reef fish, they are so gentle and sensitive, and curious, it is like watching two snooker players, but you could get 6! That would blow even George away. Also shrimp safe, harmless, but they do need entertainment - hand feeding. Favourite food - grindal worms.

Or even better - rehome a poor unloved fish, especially one that is blind and nobody loves, from a shop. Call it Simon.

All of the fish above are compatible, but you need MTS before you get lots of species going. Just ask Gill. Always helps.


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## paul.in.kendal (24 Jan 2021)

Thanks for the compliment Simon, and thanks for all the suggestions! This is not getting any easier!


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## Karmicnull (24 Jan 2021)

Simon Cole said:


> The poor old cherry barb deserves a lot more love. The females have lovely round bodies and the males go deep red. They are extinct in the wild  I


I had no idea.  The only cherry barbs are in tanks around the world.  Suddenly feel a weight of responsibility to look after mine that wasn't there before.


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## mort (24 Jan 2021)

Karmicnull said:


> I had no idea.  The only cherry barbs are in tanks around the world.  Suddenly feel a weight of responsibility to look after mine that wasn't there before.



Unfortunately cherry barbs aren't on their own in that respect. Over exploitation of wild populations is all too common. It's exactly the same in the plant world.


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## Wolf6 (25 Jan 2021)

mort said:


> Unfortunately cherry barbs aren't on their own in that respect. Over exploitation of wild populations is all too common. It's exactly the same in the plant world.


Even though this information can be found on the internet, up until now I didnt know about the cherry barbs either, same as others, so perhaps it would have some value to have a list of endangered popular species to help us choose our fish more responsibly? Can we perhaps get a thread with popular species we ought to avoid/check if they are bred in captivity?


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## Simon Cole (25 Jan 2021)

Wolf6 said:


> Even though this information can be found on the internet, up until now I didn't know about the cherry barbs either, same as others, so perhaps it would have some value to have a list of endangered popular species to help us choose our fish more responsibly? Can we perhaps get a thread with popular species we ought to avoid/check if they are bred in captivity?


Very intelligent suggestion. Great point.

Encyclopedia of Life


			Search FishBase
		


The two links above should help you to identify endangered species, but there is one slight catch.
The rate of land use change and habitat loss is far faster than it is possible to survey. It can only take one pollution event to knock-out an entire population.
There is a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the validity historical studies and the assumptions of species distribution. What tends to happen is that policy-makers do not have enough information to classify endangerment, and you will see the "IUCN red list status" for vast numbers of our aquarium species as "Not Evaluated". Adding to the confusion, DNA technology is showing that a lot of the classification of species are incorrect:  some end up as the same species, sub-species or something entirely different (phenotypic divergence/convergence). _Nannostomus spp_ are a very classic example.

The third problem is to do with the way that fish are sold. Rarely will you see an import certificate at point-of-sale and the information on these can be false of misleading with relation to where they are sourced. I guess it is easy to import anything, because who is qualified to counteract those claims.
Killifish are a very good example where the community has come together to attempt preservation, especially concerning a lot of the African species, which I believe had a similar fate. But you will always find novices buying up new fish, even if we were to avoid those purchases. Collecting does not need to be an issue if it done responsibly and monitored. I am not sure how the IUCN actually works, but if it is anything like the UKBAP list, then I expect it is taking too long to come to any form on consensus.


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## Regent (25 Jan 2021)

I too have a really deep tank so find this thread interesting!
I was looking for something more in keeping height wise. At the moment I have Odessa barbs (which look stunning!) And danios in there..

What about bleeding hearts, they get deep and look great.

It's a bit bigger but shorter at 36inches long x 24 wide x and 30 deep 400l. It's probably a thread in its own right asking for advice. I feel a bit limited as the depth requires alot of flow to get good turn over of water so slow water species may struggle, I also have fairly hard water.

What I'd really like is a nice centerpiece fish that's not out of proportion.


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## paul.in.kendal (25 Jan 2021)

Odessa barbs look very interesting. Do you have pictures of yours, @Regent ?


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## Regent (25 Jan 2021)

Neither photo really does them justice. Bright red to dark black, yellow fins and a blue spot behind the eye tin foil on the lower half. I'll see if I can get a better photo!


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## Regent (25 Jan 2021)

None are great, my phone camera isn't upto it! But hopefully you get the idea...

They prefer slightly cooler temps and like a bit if hardness in the water.


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## paul.in.kendal (25 Jan 2021)

My water is VERY soft. Run it at 24° at the moment. But they do look absolutely superb. How big are they?


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## Regent (25 Jan 2021)

They're about an inch long. The males are currently sparing.. they're facinating to watch and beg for food.







						Pethia padamya – Odessa Barb (Puntius padamya) — Seriously Fish
					






					www.seriouslyfish.com
				




I wish my water was soft, it opens so many options!


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## dean (26 Jan 2021)

Iriatherina werneri The Threadfin Rainbowfish would be something different and when they display look large bodied 
Very active mid and upper water species 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paul.in.kendal (26 Jan 2021)

Now that's a spectacular fish!


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## Regent (26 Jan 2021)

dean said:


> Iriatherina werneri The Threadfin Rainbowfish would be something different and when they display look large bodied
> Very active mid and upper water species
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oddly I'm planning to get some! Prehaps some spotted blue eyes as well! If I manage to find some locally I'll pop some photos up.


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## shangman (26 Jan 2021)

I saw some odessa barbs at the LFS last week and thought to myself "I'm having them one day 👀👀👀", their colouring is just beautiful and much so richer and more complex irl compared to the photos I just googled (though tbh all fish are so much more sparkling and wonderful IRL)



Regent said:


> Oddly I'm planning to get some! Prehaps some spotted blue eyes as well! If I manage to find some locally I'll pop some photos up.


As a fashion designer I'm LOVING the colour mixing of fish in your tank! The kribs already look fantastic with the barbs, threadfins as well would look great.


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## dean (27 Jan 2021)

Odessa Barbs colour up best at cooler temperatures 65 


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## Regent (31 Jan 2021)

I agree they much prefer it cooler though I've never taken the tank below 18 deg, I'd say they hold colour well up to about 24 deg. They were very unhappy last summer when there was nothing that I could do to keep the tank cool.


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## paul.in.kendal (15 Feb 2021)

Simon Cole said:


> get a shoal of 5 or 6 Black Phantom Tetra _Hyphessobrycon megalopterus, _AND a group of 8 or 9 harlequins. This is my favourite formula for the perfect community tank. It becomes so lively with both of these species, harlequins shoaling above the tetras, never fails to blow me away.


Been thinking about this, Simon. Do these two species really keep apart in the tank, above and below? I'm guessing the two shoals rarely sit one above the other like they're stacked on shelves. But if they generally mix freely with each other, that would give the aquarium a very different look. 
Fishlore.com comments on the favoured 'tank region' of different species, upper, middle, lower. It says that green neon tetra will act like the harlequins, staying higher. What do you think?


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## Driftless (15 Feb 2021)

I am also a big fan of the Red Phantom Tetras, I have 24 in a tall aquarium that also has angels in it.  They are an absolute hoot when you feed them.


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## Simon Cole (15 Feb 2021)

paul.in.kendal said:


> Been thinking about this, Simon. Do these two species really keep apart in the tank, above and below?


Yes they did. The phantoms tended to hang 3 to 4 inches above the bottom. You can get both males and females, but the males were responsible for carving out this territory. Occasionally the harlequins would venture into this group, typically when the lights came on. The harlequins enjoyed a space about 3 inches above the phantoms, and at points would shoal far more dynamically and nearer to the surface. If you have lots of plants then you may find a lot more hiding behaviour, but in a low moderately planted tank, both shoals were maintained. The best thing is to feed them fruit flies and watch them wallop the surface. That is something quite special to watch. Now back then, I am sure we had a subspecies of harlequins, so your results may vary a bit. Adding a couple of small rummy nose tetra was another trick we employed because the harlequins would join this pair and would be far more active, using every corner of the tank. As soon as I can - I will have this community again.

_just noticed this is my 500th post!_


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## Driftless (16 Feb 2021)

My Red Phantoms are mainly a mid-level fish.  The tank that they are in is 23 inches tall.  If it was a covered tank I would add hatchetfish.


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## paul.in.kendal (16 Feb 2021)

One day I'll have a covered tank and keep hatchet fish for sure. 

Current thinking on this set-up is a shoal of 15-20 black phantom tetra and a group of 3-4 pearl gourami. And red cherry shrimp.


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## paul.in.kendal (4 Mar 2021)

Thanks once again for all the suggestions, folks.

I've gone for a shoal of 15 red phantom tetra, which seem to have settled in fine. They definitely seem to favour the lower half of the aquarium, so the suggestion from @Simon Cole to add another shoal that will tend to stay higher in the water column might make very good sense. But the colouring and markings of harlequins are a bit too close to the red phantoms for my liking.

I'm wondering if black neon tetra, or even diamond tetra, might perform a similar function?


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## paul.in.kendal (4 Mar 2021)

Red phantom tetra feeding


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