# Volcano mineral under inert substrate



## Fred13 (23 Nov 2021)

Hello,

I will briefly try to describe my thoughts. I have my tank not filled up yet and the substrate is consisted only of somewhat coarser sand.

The average height is 4 to 5 cms however the left and right back corners are significantly higher; about 10 cm or so.

I am thinking of placing volcano mineral (let's assume it's the JBL) ONLY in those corners to prevent any "bad" water circulation inside the substrate. If I want to do that I should put the mineral into some filter bags to ensure that nothing will reach the surface in long term.


From what I know, the main advantages of doing that is the oxygenation inside the substrate and the higher CEC which probably helps. I dont know if those minerals are also enriched with any nutrients ; they probably have some.

First things first, what do you think of the above? Should I continue considering of it or just let it be as it is?

Last but not least, there is a small issue.

On the first layer of substrate I have already spread about 10 of tropica's nutrition capsules. Not many but still, if I move the sand some of all those resin balls will come up to the surface.

Is that a problem or who cares?


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## ceg4048 (23 Nov 2021)

Fred13 said:


> From what I know, the main advantages of doing that is the oxygenation inside the substrate and the higher CEC which probably helps. I dont know if those minerals are also enriched with any nutrients ; they probably have some.


These are generally false claims because there is always circulation in the sediment. If you intend to put rooted plants in the tank then this is doubly unnecessary because plants oxygenate the sediment via their roots. We really never need to worry about circulation in the sediment and we do not need to take any special precautions in this regard.


Fred13 said:


> On the first layer of substrate I have already spread about 10 of tropica's nutrition capsules. Not many but still, if I move the sand some of all those resin balls will come up to the surface.


I have not seen the ingredient list for these capsules. If their source of Nitrogen is NH3/NH4 then it will be worth doing a very large water change after disturbing the sediment. This is a good idea to change the water whenever sediment is significantly disturbed, regardless of whether there are root tabs inserted. Sediments, over time will always have NH3/NH4. The sediment works in exactly the same way as your filter's media.

Cheers,


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## Fred13 (23 Nov 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> These are generally false claims because there is always circulation in the sediment. If you intend to put rooted plants in the tank then this is doubly unnecessary because plants oxygenate the sediment via their roots. We really never need to worry about circulation in the sediment and we do not need to take any special precautions in this regard.
> 
> I have not seen the ingredient list for these capsules. If their source of Nitrogen is NH3/NH4 then it will be worth doing a very large water change after disturbing the sediment. This is a good idea to change the water whenever sediment is significantly disturbed, regardless of whether there are root tabs inserted. Sediments, over time will always have NH3/NH4. The sediment works in exactly the same way as your filter's media.
> 
> Cheers,


Hello and thank you for your answer,

Correct me if I am wrong but I guess you not a fan of such an adittion 
If there is not any significant advantage to put that kind of substrate under my sand then I will not bother at all.. I would only do it if I really knew it worths the effort. I should just stick to the liquid fertilization and the usage of some root tabs occasionally.

I have searched for the ingredients list but unfortunately there isn't such info available on web. 
I guess tropica would be kind to provide those. In any case, I will keep them well-burried


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## MichaelJ (23 Nov 2021)

Fred13 said:


> I have searched for the ingredients list but unfortunately there isn't such info available on web.


Hi @Fred13 There is a thread about root tabs here and some specifics on the Tropica capsules that might interest you.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Fred13 (23 Nov 2021)

MichaelJ said:


> Hi @Fred13 There is a thread about root tabs here and some specifics on the Tropica capsules that might interest you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael


Hello and thank you,
It seems that tropica tabs aren't that innocent and ammonia spikes may occur.
My tank is 85 gallons and I have only spread 10 of them. Still, I will extensively measure NH4 before I stock the tank.


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## ceg4048 (25 Nov 2021)

Fred13 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but I guess you not a fan of such an adittion
> If there is not any significant advantage to put that kind of substrate under my sand then I will not bother at all.. I would only do it if I really knew it worths the effort. I should just stick to the liquid fertilization and the usage of some root tabs occasionally.


Hi,
     Well it's not that I'm not a fan of volcanic products. What I'm not a fan of is the way in which they are marketed. The claims made by the suppliers are disingenuous as these rocks do not have any special characteristics which makes them any better that run-of-the-mill clay sediment.
Clay generally has high CEC. This will not improve the sediment by adding either pumice or basalt, which are just ordinary products of volcanic output. By far, the most nutritious volcanic product is the ash, which, due to it's small particle size will break down over time, release it's nutrients and will enhance the soil, but that takes years of weathering and other natural processes and of course, ash is not something to place in the tank.

So the best bet if you want to provide nutrition to the plants is to use either an enriched clay sediment, such as Amazonia Aquasoil, or to insert root tabs in an inert clay sediment. Of course, I dose the water column and this works just fine.

Cheers,


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## Fred13 (25 Nov 2021)

ceg4048 said:


> So the best bet if you want to provide nutrition to the plants is to use either an enriched clay sediment, such as Amazonia Aquasoil, or to insert root tabs in an inert clay sediment. Of course, I dose the water column and this works just fine.


Hello thank you for the feedback.
I can't agree more with you about the marketing tricks the companies use to persuade. I understand the competition though.

I will not bother adding any mineral beneath the sand unless you tell me that the higher CEC will definitely helps on long term.

I have read many of your posts and if I remember right you have mentioned that there is no any special need for root tabs if we intend to daily dose the water column.
However, I will use some clay tabs that I have, assuming that they will not cause any harm. What I do not understand is how long those tabs will last. This is so confusing. Is it 1 month , 2 or more? Because assuming less than reality ends up placing multiple root tabs at the same spots for no reason.

You mention adding tabs into clay sediment. So, adding them in sand isn't suppose to benefit the plants ?

Sorry for too many questions. I used to have soil-based substrates. It is the first time I am going with an inert and I have several knowledge gaps


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## ceg4048 (6 Dec 2021)

Fred13 said:


> I have read many of your posts and if I remember right you have mentioned that there is no any special need for root tabs if we intend to daily dose the water column.
> However, I will use some clay tabs that I have, assuming that they will not cause any harm. What I do not understand is how long those tabs will last. This is so confusing. Is it 1 month , 2 or more? Because assuming less than reality ends up placing multiple root tabs at the same spots for no reason.


Aquatic plants can feed from any nutritious source, whether it be from the sediment or the water column. It's always beneficial, therefore, to have nutrients in both locations, but it is not compulsory. There are reasons many choose to have high nutrition in the sediment and very little in the water. So for example, when breeding or if there are concerns regarding the fish response to high TDS in the water. Adding anything to the water increases the TDS. On the other hand, adding to the water is quick and easy, but if the hobbyists intends to go on holiday then this may be problematic. Nutrients in the water find their way down into the sediment, where the clay is able to adsorb some of these nutrients and to pass them along to the roots. That is the function of CEC and that's why clays with high CEC are useful. Sand has a relatively low CEC, so root tabs are more useful in the case of low CEC sediments as they cannot pass on the nutrients as effectively as clay can, however, the nutrients are still there and will find their way into the plat roots eventually. As I mentioned, the best solution is to have water Colum dosing as well as a nutritious sediment as long as you are not worried about higher TDS. This allows you to be lazy and miss water column dosing occasionally without penalty.

It's really difficult to tell how long any particular brand of root tabs will last as this will depend on the rate at which nutrients are pulled from the sediment, which in turn will depend on the amount of lighting, the plant mass and so forth. It's best to place the tab and monitor whether it has completely dissolved over some period, such as a month. Since I don't use these products I don't really have a feel for that. In fact, another reason I would never spend the money is because you can make your own root tab by simply dissolving  your dry powders in some water and pouring the water in an ice tray. Freeze the tray and voila, instant root tab ice cubes that you can then just insert into the sediment. This can be done repeatedly at any interval without penalty. Why people spend a fortune on root tabs, I have no idea.

Cheers,


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