# Woodland Troll - Take Four



## Tim Harrison (15 Feb 2020)

I was considering tacking this scape on the back end of NatureScape, after all I'm reusing a lot of the plants. However, it's developed in to something quite different and I'm going to add more cryps.






As I was working with the Azalea root I started to see faces in it, and arms and legs, but not Salvadore Dali like Marcel (@zozo) , rather someone I hadn't thought about in many years...Raggety, Rupert the Bears mischievous woodland troll friend, hence the name I've given the scape "Woodland Troll"; Raggety is a bit oblique.

I'm a big fan of negative space and wanted to keep the scape as open and simple as possible. It's still a work in progress but this is the main bones of it...


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## zozo (15 Feb 2020)

Haha, you got the bug too...  I see it also. The spooky tentacle monster read to snatch you and bite your head off.

Let the Saga begin, this is going to be an interesting scape. 

Also a perfect object for the <om nom nom> meme


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## Tim Harrison (15 Feb 2020)

Haha...saw that one too Marcel


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## DeepMetropolis (15 Feb 2020)

Ah something artistic, I like it!


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## Deano3 (15 Feb 2020)

Should be very interesting,  sure you will make it look amazing.

Looking forward to this one 
Dean


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## Tim Harrison (15 Feb 2020)

Thanks @DeepMetropolis and @Deano3 

Had some spare time today so added the AS and the rest of the hardscape, mostly Azalea roots including some finer ones. The main idea is to create a more natural look and habitat fish will feel safe hanging out in...


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## Keith GH (15 Feb 2020)

Tim

I have fished the mangroves many times at the top of Aust.  In saying that the fish do live in the lower mangroves and grab a meal as it swims past.  In your Aquascape I would like to see a lot more mix of the fine twiggy pieces in base area up to about one third height even over the rocks eg.




Keith


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## Tim Harrison (15 Feb 2020)

Nice suggestion Kieth, I'll give it a go tomorrow, see what I can come up with


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## Tim Harrison (16 Feb 2020)

The final hardscape...for now 
Spot the difference ...


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## zozo (16 Feb 2020)

The pieces of root you added over the rocks look very nice.  As Keith mentioned, much more natural. That's actually what i always miss in most scapes with spider wood. Most people put it upside down in the tank, the trunk in the substrate and the roots sticking up. But that's just me nitpicking about meaningless little facts because it still can look beautiful and that's the main goal.


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## Tim Harrison (16 Feb 2020)

zozo said:


> The pieces of root you added over the rocks look very nice.  As Keith mentioned, much more natural. That's actually what i always miss in most scapes with spider wood. Most people put it upside down in the tank, the trunk in the substrate and the roots sticking up. But that's just me nitpicking about meaningless little facts because it still can look beautiful and that's the main goal.


Thanks Marcel  I guess, some scapes can be very formulaic my own included, which is fine. I like to try new ideas out even if they're just new to me. Problem is they don't always work out that well. But I'm fairly happy with this scape and can pretty much visualise how it's going to look planted. However, why is it that I can never find the plants I want when I need them? Everyone seems sold out 

I've the epiphytes I need from the last scape, but I wanted to plant a lawn of _Lilaeopsis Brasiliensis_ and _Cryptocoryne parva_, neither seems easy to come by in vitro and the quantities it need them in. I might have to go with an alternative of _Eleocharis acicularis_ 'mini'. The mid ground plants I want, Cryptocoryne beckettii 'Petchii' and Cryptocoryne wendtii ‘Green' I can get pretty much anywhere. Stem plants I'm hoping to plant are _Rotala colorata _or R. Gia Lai / H'Ra and _Myriophyllium Guyana. _


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## zozo (16 Feb 2020)

I actually have no idea what the Brexit means for you guys, does that mean you pay extra VAT if you order anything outside UK now?
If not, i can really suggest having a look here.
https://www.aquarium-planten.com/

I've seen UK prices on the plants and i find them awfully expensive compared to this. I know they ship to UK, but do not know the PP. I thought it was €14,- but if you spend over €40,- you get €5.50 discount on PP.

The plants are always top quality and a fair amount. I guess if you need a bunch you easily get to €40,- 

For example the average UK price for a pot C. parva is GBP 4.95 against € 2.60
https://www.aquarium-planten.com/shop/5/cryptocoryne/13/cryptocoryne-parva/1761
That's 2 for the price of 1.


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## Tim Harrison (16 Feb 2020)

Thanks Marcel, definitely worth checking out


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## zozo (17 Feb 2020)

I guess so..  I assume you prefer invitro to get more bang for your buck with those prices. But it might brake even getting twice the amount potted for the same price. Actually a tad more gbp 5 = € 6,- then everagely €2.60 a pot, with 15 pots you already break even at the PP.

Transition wise i personally never had issues with C. parva nor with L. brasilliensis potted. I see for now this shop is sold out with L. brasilliensis, but have it regularly in stock.


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## Keith GH (17 Feb 2020)

Tim
Old 



New




The twiggy pieces on the rocks is very obvious, less fine pieces on the RH side of the trunk, a medium piece on the LH of a main root also in the centre a few very fine pieces rearranged. 

Its looking more natural now.

Keith


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## Tim Harrison (17 Feb 2020)

zozo said:


> I guess so..  I assume you prefer invitro to get more bang for your buck with those prices. But it might brake even getting twice the amount potted for the same price. Actually a tad more gbp 5 = € 6,- then everagely €2.60 a pot, with 15 pots you already break even at the PP.


Thanks again Marcel. In vitro are much better value for money if they transition, but I have an intense dislike of pest snails, so in vitro makes sense from that perspective as well.
However, looking at the scape now, adding the AS has reduced the tension quite considerably, and I'm now considering just using a thin layer of sand, except behind the hardscape.



Keith GH said:


> The twiggy pieces on the rocks is very obvious, less fine pieces on the RH side of the trunk, a medium piece on the LH of a main root also in the centre a few very fine pieces rearranged. Its looking more natural now.


Thanks Keith, I had played around with the twiggy pieces on the rocks but couldn't get it to work very well, so thanks for the pushing me to try it again. Second time I realised that if the twigs followed the direction of natural "joints" in the rock it worked much better; I guess it's pretty much what roots would do anyway.

I've always appreciated your straightforward advice and constructive crtiism, not just that given to me but also to others as well both here on UKAPS and the other forums we help run.


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## Keith GH (18 Feb 2020)

Tim

If you are attempting to get the natural look at the moment the medium is too Aquascaping rather than the natural appeal which could give you another interest.

My suggestion would be pour more substrate 3-4cm deep across the back and in front of the rocks RH side.   I would then let nature do its work and let it get its own level.    Remembering when planted it will be all covered and if lucky it should give you a natural slope not the flat perfection.

Just an idea from a crazy designer.

Keith


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## howanic (18 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> However, looking at the scape now, adding the AS has reduced the tension quite considerably, and I'm now considering just using a thin layer of sand, except behind the hardscape.



I agree... it was quite dramatic before, when you had that gnarled wood, sideways in a bare bottomed tank. I like points where a twig seems to extend out and puncture a layer of pristine sand. The 1500 that Filipe scaped at AG has it and there was another tank posted on here years ago that I always sticks in my head because it did it amazingly too. (Think it was Luis and it was an island scape, if anyone can remember it). Somehow it seems to make the wood look gnarlier and the sand look crisper and as you said, creates that tension.


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## Tim Harrison (18 Feb 2020)

Keith GH said:


> Tim
> 
> If you are attempting to get the natural look at the moment the medium is too Aquascaping rather than the natural appeal which could give you another interest.
> 
> ...


Thanks Keith, I think I'm trying to get a balance between the two. Your suggestion is a nice idea, and perhaps you're right; I need to go one way or the other. But I've decided to use sand instead.
So yesterday I spent the best part of any spare time I had removing the AS and resetting the scape. It looks much better already. I'm hoping to finish off today although I need to buy some more sand 



howanic said:


> I agree... it was quite dramatic before, when you had that gnarled wood, sideways in a bare bottomed tank. I like points where a twig seems to extend out and puncture a layer of pristine sand. The 1500 that Filipe scaped at AG has it and there was another tank posted on here years ago that I always sticks in my head because it did it amazingly too. (Think it was Luis and it was an island scape, if anyone can remember it). Somehow it seems to make the wood look gnarlier and the sand look crisper and as you said, creates that tension.


It's really what I'd visualised in the first place. I know from experience that adding substrate can dramatically change a scape, and often for the better. However, that's not necessarily the case here.
I'm thinking of using Hugo Kamishi Natural Fine Gravel instead, or I may give ADA La Plata Sand a go, but I think the latter might be a little too white and bright for what I have in mind. I'll take a trip to AG, probably Thursday or Friday and see.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (18 Feb 2020)

I’m glad you went the spiderwood route, it adds a nice complexity to the hardscape. Since your replacing with sand does that mean your going to make this a soil tank then?


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## alto (18 Feb 2020)

If this is a transitional tank you’re hoping to move with, I’d go with an full dense carpet etc to stabilize the scape during the moving process (drain all water and pack with some paper towel to limit any “free water” - and subsequent movement - during transport) 
 I realize this rather interferes with scaping form


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## Tim Harrison (18 Feb 2020)

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> I’m glad you went the spiderwood route, it adds a nice complexity to the hardscape. Since your replacing with sand does that mean your going to make this a soil tank then?


Thanks, there was no way I was leaving AG without it...the wood that is 
I don't think so, I'm just planning on planting on and around the rock hardscape.



alto said:


> If this is a transitional tank you’re hoping to move with, I’d go with an full dense carpet etc to stabilize the scape during the moving process (drain all water and pack with some paper towel to limit any “free water” - and subsequent movement - during transport)
> I realize this rather interferes with scaping form


You're right alto, not sure how soon that will be tho'  and I'm not going to wait any longer to scape 
It's pretty much removal friendly; it's mostly glued together, and aside from the plants the rest will be just sand and water.
Behind the scenes shot whilst I was working on the scape outside of the tank...


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## Gill (19 Feb 2020)

Great work with the wood and the roots winding down give a different aspect to it, giving it more depth and character.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (19 Feb 2020)

Gill said:


> Great work with the wood and the roots winding down give a different aspect to it, giving it more depth and character.



I certainly agree it gives it an aged look that is just so aesthetically pleasing. I wanted to do that with my scape but I had a hard time finding the right pieces. The only downside of ordering hardscape online. Are you considering using moss on the rock and branches? That would give it an even more mature appearance! Great work I always enjoy your posts sir.


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

Gill said:


> Great work with the wood and the roots winding down give a different aspect to it, giving it more depth and character.


Thanks Gill 


Mr.Shenanagins said:


> I certainly agree it gives it an aged look that is just so aesthetically pleasing. I wanted to do that with my scape but I had a hard time finding the right pieces. The only downside of ordering hardscape online. Are you considering using moss on the rock and branches? That would give it an even more mature appearance! Great work I always enjoy your posts sir.


Thanks that's kind, they're spiderwood branches packaged by SuperFish I bought mine from AG. Yes, I will be using mini Christmas moss on some of the branches


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (20 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> However, why is it that I can never find the plants I want when I need them? Everyone seems sold out



It’s always the way... I’ve been waiting for some plants to come back into stock for a very long time now!!



zozo said:


> For example the average UK price for a pot C. parva is GBP 4.95 against € 2.60



Wow, what a difference... I never knew! Does anyone know if invited pots can be taken in hold/carry-on luggage??


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

Had a trip to AG today and bought plants and more sand, this is the hardscape now...


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## alto (20 Feb 2020)

Fantastic  

Any soil hiding beneath?


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## Paul27 (20 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Had a trip to AG today and bought plants and more sand, this is the hardscape now...


Lord of the rings comes to mind when I look at this. Looks brilliant


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

alto said:


> Fantastic
> 
> Any soil hiding beneath?


Thanks alto, no soil just sand. I needed to keep the substrate level to a minimum otherwise the scape'd loose tension. 


Paul27 said:


> Lord of the rings comes to mind when I look at this. Looks brilliant


Thanks Paul, that's very evocative, any particular moment?


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (20 Feb 2020)

Go on... give us a front on shot!! I want to see how nicely you’ve got the peddles to the right balancing out with the wood etc on the left!!


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## Jayefc1 (20 Feb 2020)

Looks really good mate what's your plant list bet you brought more than you wanted/needed i like the no soil


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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (20 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks really good mate what's your plant list bet you brought more than you wanted/needed i like the no soil


Seeing no soil scales done more and more recently, I suspect ease of maintenance has a big part to play??


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## Jayefc1 (20 Feb 2020)

Yeah lot less maintenance slower growing plants not trimming every 2 weeks or more my 800 is 2 months old and all I do is water changes and syphon the sand no alge and no diatomes as of yet fingers crossed


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks really good mate what's your plant list bet you brought more than you wanted/needed i like the no soil


Thanks Jay, these are the plants I bought today at AG. I'll also be using a lot of the epiphytes and moss from the previous scape...







Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> Go on... give us a front on shot!! I want to see how nicely you’ve got the peddles to the right balancing out with the wood etc on the left!!


Here you go Matt, the space on the left front will be planted with crypts...


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## Jayefc1 (20 Feb 2020)

Going to.look amazing again is that the Rio xingu gravel i see in the detail what sand is it really matches the wood very kinda autumnal in colour 

There are some pretty epic epiphytes and mosses  coming from the last scape


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

Yep, it is Jay  twinned with Hugo Kamishi Natural Fine Gravel. It is a good combo with both wood and rock, it has elements of both main colours in it. It'll be interesting to see how the planting changes the autumnal impression. The idea is to keep it as open as possible and not smoother the hardscape.


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## Jayefc1 (20 Feb 2020)

Oh I like that gravel mate it goes really well together gutted I just ordered the la plate sand to go with the Rio xingu but that matches so well and I've used brown/redish dragon stone might have to give Steve a ring in the morning lol do you think it has autumnal colours?


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## Tim Harrison (20 Feb 2020)

I like the ADA La Plata, tho' Colorado would perhaps be a better match with the Rio xingu for my scape. But both were a little too pale for what I needed. 
Plus the La Plata will show up every fish poop that falls to the bottom of the tank


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## Paul27 (20 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Thanks alto, no soil just sand. I needed to keep the substrate level to a minimum otherwise the scape'd loose tension.
> 
> Thanks Paul, that's very evocative, any particular moment?



Not any particular moment, but it springs straight to my mind when I look at this. Would fit perfectly in one of the forest scenes. Looking forward to seeing this progress


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## Mr.Shenanagins (20 Feb 2020)

I’m very jealous of you guys in the UK, access to Tropica plants and just aquascaping materials in general. Shops like AG here are few and far between. End jealousy.

Looks great Tim can wait to see it planted


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## Deano3 (20 Feb 2020)

Looks great tim love the hardscape and as said love the gravel and sand, looking forward to following this.

Dean

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## Matt @ ScapeEasy (21 Feb 2020)

Mr.Shenanagins said:


> I’m very jealous of you guys in the UK, access to Tropica plants and just aquascaping materials in general. Shops like AG here are few and far between. End jealousy.



They also seem to few and far between in the northern two thirds of the country!!!


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## CooKieS (21 Feb 2020)

Putting crypts in such low level of sand will be tricky 

Cool scape, looks like an angry octopus.


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## Deano3 (21 Feb 2020)

Matt @ ScapeEasy said:


> They also seem to few and far between in the northern two thirds of the country!!!


Agree Matt i am up newcastle way and no aquascaping shops up here with harscape selections etc.

When you planting Tim?

Dean

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## Tim Harrison (21 Feb 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Putting crypts in such low level of sand will be tricky
> 
> Cool scape, looks like an angry octopus.


Thanks CooKies, it's really not that shallow near the hardscape, which is where I'm planting 


Deano3 said:


> When you planting Tim?


Hopefully today


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## Ady34 (21 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


>


Ooof!......
I think everything else has already been said.


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## Tim Harrison (21 Feb 2020)

Haha... thanks Ady


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## Harry H (21 Feb 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Cool scape, looks like an angry octopus.



Yes! Now I have seen that, it cannot be unseen. It will have green tentacles!


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## CooKieS (21 Feb 2020)

Harry H said:


> Yes! Now I have seen that, it cannot be unseen. It will have green tentacles!



Glad to see I'm not crazy


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## Jayefc1 (21 Feb 2020)

Starting to think people have a thing with your scapes and octopus lol didnt @alto see the eye in the last one lol


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## Keetchy (21 Feb 2020)

Brilliant scape bud. I also can now see an angry octopus 

Really looking forward too seeing this one planted out and its progress


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## CooKieS (21 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Starting to think people have a thing with your scapes and octopus lol didnt @alto see the eye in the last one lol


 
It seems Tim is talented enough to make hardscape 'alive


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## Tim Harrison (21 Feb 2020)

Haha...I see a troll, as described in my opening post. Marcel thinks it looks like a 'spooky tentacle monster'. That's what I love about using complex natural hardscape it just comes to life.
Seeing faces and animals etc in inanimate objects is a phenomenon known as pareidolia and is just a part of being human. so don't worry none of you are going mad


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## Tim Harrison (21 Feb 2020)

Anyway, I've had a bit of a mare. The scape slipped over sideways; I knocked it whilst I was attaching moss to some of the branches. I thought it was really stable but obviously I was wrong  

It was nigh on impossible to correct with all the sand in the tank and then the polystyrene base snapped in two, so I've had to take everything out and start again. And I knocked several little roots off in the process 

I've glued it back together and this time I've used even more silicon. It really is more like model making than scaping, especially at the moment. For now I've wrapped the moss in clingfilm. I'll reset and plant up over the next few days


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## Deano3 (21 Feb 2020)

Ahh what a nightmare better now than later i suppose, i have never glued hardscape etc but if want intricate and great layouts as this i will need to learn haha, looking forward to seeing it planted mate.

Dean

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## Mr.Shenanagins (21 Feb 2020)

In the future, you can use original gorilla glue. Once it dries it’s completely inert and non toxic. I used it to glue my stubborn driftwood to rock and it is ON THERE. The rock was a good 7lbs and I pulled the wood up with the rock as if they were always one piece. A little goes a very long way.


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## Paul27 (22 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Anyway, I've had a bit of a mare. The scape slipped over sideways; I knocked it whilst I was attaching moss to some of the branches. I thought it was really stable but obviously I was wrong
> 
> It was nigh on impossible to correct with all the sand in the tank and then the polystyrene base snapped in two, so I've had to take everything out and start again. And I knocked several little roots off in the process
> 
> I've glued it back together and this time I've used even more silicon. It really is more like model making than scaping, especially at the moment. For now I've wrapped the moss in clingfilm. I'll reset and plant up over the next few days



Shame when things like this happen. Bet abit of swearing occured!


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## Tim Harrison (22 Feb 2020)

Paul27 said:


> Bet abit of swearing occured!


Strangely no, just quiet resignation, and then just getting on with what's needed to get back on track...
...well okay then, maybe just a little swearing


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## Paul27 (22 Feb 2020)

Suppose these things happen at times, just very frustrating at the time when you get things done the way you want and then something like this happens. glad you've managed to sort it though.


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## alto (22 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> For now I've wrapped the moss in clingfilm.


It really is all the Fault of the Damned  #$@&%*!!! Moss

(and lacking that 3rd hand to steady everything )


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## Tim Harrison (22 Feb 2020)

alto said:


> It really is all the Fault of the Damned #$@&%*!!! Moss


Absolutely alto, I finished off attaching it whilst the wood was out of the tank this time. I'll probably take the clingfilm off and find it dry and dead, and have to do it all again 


alto said:


> (and lacking that 3rd hand to steady everything )


How many times do you wish you had another pair of hands? I bet General Grievous is dead good at scaping...


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## zozo (22 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Seeing faces and animals etc in inanimate objects is a phenomenon known as pareidolia and is just a part of being human. so don't worry none of you are going mad



Here is Casper the Friendly Ghost.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (22 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Absolutely alto, I finished off attaching it whilst the wood was out of the tank this time. I'll probably take the clingfilm off and find it dry and dead, and have to do it all again
> 
> How many times do you wish you had another pair of hands? I bet General Grievous is dead good at scaping...



He couldn’t handle fighting off a Jedi with one saber, I’m afraid his aquascaping skills couldn’t be that impressive......dark side problems am I right?


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## zozo (22 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> pareidolia



and hearing hidden messages in music

We have a phenomenon in our country named "Mama Apple sap"
It started all with this and think "Mama Apple sap" when and you hear it.


It was a very popular radio program named like that where people could send in what Dutch words  or sometimes compleat sentences they could hear in foreign language songs. And it went on for years that much...
Mama apple sap is the only one that also still works in English i know of because apple sap is apple sap in both languages.


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## CooKieS (22 Feb 2020)

Paul27 said:


> Shame when things like this happen. Bet abit of swearing occured!



yep, in my last scape the Wood started to float after finished planting and filling...that moment I were thinking why I’m still in this hobby. 

For fixing mosses I like to use superglue, not as fine looking as tied at the beginning but more precise, secured and fine growing when using small batches and small amounts of glue.


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## Zeus. (23 Feb 2020)

Good to hear your inner Jedi didn't sucume to anger and the dark path 

If it was easy there would be no challenge


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2020)

Zeus. said:


> Good to hear your inner Jedi didn't sucume to anger and the dark path
> 
> If it was easy there would be no challenge


Haha...

“Once You Start Down The Dark Path, Forever Will It Dominate Your Destiny.”

_Yoda, Return of the Jedi._


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2020)

Finally planted...


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## Jayefc1 (23 Feb 2020)

Looks really nice mate.


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## Siege (23 Feb 2020)

Nice.

from the right it reminds me of the spider in lord of the rings trying to catch the hobbits!


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## CooKieS (23 Feb 2020)

I really like it,very natural looking.


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Looks really nice mate.


Thanks Jay 


Siege said:


> Nice.
> 
> from the right it reminds me of the spider in lord of the rings trying to catch the hobbits!


Thanks Steve, I can see that too, that azalea root seems to have a life of its own 


CooKieS said:


> I really like it,very natural looking.


Thanks CooKies, that's appreciated, it's what I was aiming for


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## Deano3 (23 Feb 2020)

Looks great great planting, is that buce ontop of the wood and what plant is around the bottom of the wood as looks very well done,  looking forward to seeing this grown in, glad all planted now you can relax and enjoy, them roots around back of the rock look amazing and so natural

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison (23 Feb 2020)

Deano3 said:


> Looks great great planting, is that buce ontop of the wood and what plant is around the bottom of the wood as looks very well done,  looking forward to seeing this grown in, glad all planted now you can relax and enjoy, them roots around back of the rock look amazing and so natural
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thanks Dean, it's the buce on top of the wood. I'm hoping to get it growing emersed. The plant growing around the bottom of the wood is Anubias sp. ‘Petite’. It grew from two small pots in the last scape.


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## Gill (24 Feb 2020)

Stunning as always. 
Don't know why but this reminds me of the Angelica Houstons final witch transformation in "The Witches"


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## PARAGUAY (24 Feb 2020)

[/QUOTE]
Now why does my azalea efforts seem lacking and you pull it off like thisnice work Tim


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## Tim Harrison (24 Feb 2020)

Gill said:


> Stunning as always.
> Don't know why but this reminds me of the Angelica Houstons final witch transformation in "The Witches"


Thanks Gill 


PARAGUAY said:


> Now why does my azalea efforts seem lacking and you pull it off like thisnice work Tim


Thanks PARAGUAY 

This is what it looked like first thing this morning. Initial thoughts were the cat had been for a swim and stirred it all up. 100% water change and it's back to normal...


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## CooKieS (24 Feb 2020)

Seachem purigen Is your friend


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## Tim Harrison (24 Feb 2020)

Thanks CooKies, you may well be right  Theres a film over the entire tank and glass, I think it's just the residue off the gravel. I did wash most of it and dry it in the oven. But then I had to add some more after it went Pete Tong and couldn't be bothered to wash it first  I think there might have also been a little tannin off the wood. Anyway, I've deployed the trusty surface skimmer, that should help a little


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## BarryH (24 Feb 2020)

Looking really good Tim. Where many have seen spiders, trolls and other different shapes, to me it's a Lobster sitting back and defending itself with its claws.


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## Siege (24 Feb 2020)

Bacterial bloom from the wood maybe?

you’ll have lovely white fluffy mould stuff for the next couple of weeks!


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## DeepMetropolis (24 Feb 2020)

Tim, tank is looking good as always with your scapes! 



Siege said:


> you’ll have lovely white fluffy mould stuff for the next couple of weeks!


Hate that stuff, true moss killer


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## Tim Harrison (24 Feb 2020)

BarryH said:


> Looking really good Tim. Where many have seen spiders, trolls and other different shapes, to me it's a Lobster sitting back and defending itself with its claws.


Thanks Barry 


Siege said:


> Bacterial bloom from the wood maybe?
> 
> you’ll have lovely white fluffy mould stuff for the next couple of weeks!


I think you're right about that Steve, it started to cloud up again earlier after the water change, but I'm sure it's starting to clear on its own 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Tim, tank is looking good as always with your scapes!


Thanks DeepMetropolis 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Hate that stuff, true moss killer


Crikey, I hope not


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## Paul27 (24 Feb 2020)

Looks fantastic!


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## Keetchy (25 Feb 2020)

Looking very good Tim. But as expected. Lol. Looking forward to seeing this one grow out


----------



## zozo (25 Feb 2020)

Very nice scape!... Something completely different from what we used to see from you.

In my first High tech i also planted a Buce that close to the surface. It grew like a champion with a massive root structure attaching to the wood. That looked awesome. One point of concern, it also was a BBA magnet at that spot. Assumingly even tho it grew very fast for a buce it still was relatively a tad to much light. It even flowered 1 time for me.





I have a picture somewhere of the massive root structure it grew down to the wood. But i can't seem to find it back. But in time you will see it yourself anyway.


----------



## Tim Harrison (25 Feb 2020)

Paul27 said:


> Looks fantastic!


Thanks @Paul27, @Mark Keetch 


zozo said:


> Very nice scape!... Something completely different from what we used to see from you.
> 
> In my first High tech i also planted a Buce that close to the surface. It grew like a champion with a massive root structure attaching to the wood. That looked awesome. One point of concern, it also was a BBA magnet at that spot. Assumingly even tho it grew very fast for a buce it still was relatively a tad to much light. It even flowered 1 time for me.
> 
> ...


Thanks Marcel, that's good to know I'll definitely give it a go.

But first I'm going to have to reset the scape yet again...the wood came loose this morning 
I've changed the water and I'm going to leave it till next week; I've had enough for now 

Anyone got any ideas how best to secure the wood ?

Bugger...!


----------



## Andrew T (25 Feb 2020)

That’s a shame. I’d scrape off all that silicone and use toilet paper wrapped just like a cigarette filter and liquid super glue in multiple spots. Finish off with glue and soil to hide any paper.
A German aquascaper used that and said it worked even better than the cigarette filter trick.


----------



## Sammy Islam (25 Feb 2020)

If you're going to leave it til next week then i wouldn't do anything, let the wood soak and naturally sink?

I stuck my manzanita together using super glue and tobacco filters and sprinkled soil on it to hide any visable bits, it's holding fairly well so far but some bits are starting to come a little loose so i didn't do as well as i thought i had


----------



## zozo (25 Feb 2020)

That's indeed a bummer...  Till now i was always lucky with only super glueing the wood to the rocks. I did not try yet, but i guess as alternative dried sphagnum would work the same as a cigarette filter to fill up any gaps. Since it is very absorbent and will soak up the glue then it hardens. Thought of it, because it is a natural product with a brown colour and also since the cigarette filter is considered worlds No 1 plastic pollution suspect.


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## Wookii (25 Feb 2020)

I had the same issue Tim, with silicone not staying stuck to the wood once it the water started to soak into it. As the other guys have said, the cigarette filters and liquid superglue worked a treat for me. It's a bit messy though - and make sure you've got plenty of ground up soil ready to cover it while its wet, as the white glue looks a bit nasty if it's visible underwater.


----------



## Jayefc1 (25 Feb 2020)

What about epoxy resin from b&q or wicks it's pretty strong and comes in grey or brown dont know if you have used it before


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## Jayefc1 (25 Feb 2020)

I've used cigarette filters and liquid super glue for my wood but it's also zip tied down just used the glue to stick branches together to hold it when doing maintenance I think you need some thing stronger Tim


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## Gill (25 Feb 2020)

I can't remember the name, but what about the Spray Foam that Tanner uses over on serpadesign. Holds well and dries slowly so that you can push and mold it to shape. And you can cover it easy with Gravel and Sand etc.


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## Barbara Turner (25 Feb 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Anyone got any ideas how best to secure the wood ?



I've hidden stainless screws in the past. Drilled holes through the stone and wood. The wood is almost as hard as the stone.

The longer you leave it to soak the better.


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## GHNelson (26 Feb 2020)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicone-S...ium+sealant+brown&qid=1582705849&s=diy&sr=1-9



hoggie


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## Tim Harrison (4 Mar 2020)

Finally got around to resetting the scape...again. Some of the plants are looking a bit worse for the ordeal, but It's now up and running with a few minor tweaks 




Slime covered wood 




Thanks for all the suggestions, I used cigarette filters and superglue to secure the rocks and wood. Seems to have worked...so far


----------



## alto (5 Mar 2020)

Excellent recovery 

Filipe Oliveira also crushes some soil to powder and sprinkles that in (after the cigarette filters), then soaks it with the (very thin) liquid superglue

(this technique is clearly shown in his Green Aqua hardscaping video from last year)


----------



## Tim Harrison (5 Mar 2020)

alto said:


> Excellent recovery
> 
> Filipe Oliveira also crushes some soil to powder and sprinkles that in (after the cigarette filters), then soaks it with the (very thin) liquid superglue
> 
> (this technique is clearly shown in his Green Aqua hardscaping video from last year)


Thanks alto, I've seen him do it up close and personal like, in a similar workshop at AG, and I've done that too to but mainly to hide the cigarette filters


----------



## Wookii (5 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Slime covered wood



Eww man - that slime covered wood makes me think of something different than a Woodland Troll:


----------



## CooKieS (5 Mar 2020)

Nice start Tim but That’s very low plant mass, how do you manage algae? Low intensity on the twinstar?

all this mess with cig filters and silicon reminds me of the awful start of my current scape...ain’t gonna do the same mistake; my new wood is currently sitting in a big bucket full of water ...won’t use it as long as it doesn’t sink


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## zozo (5 Mar 2020)




----------



## papa_c (5 Mar 2020)

Wookii said:


> something different than a Woodland Trol



Troll snot from Harry Potter!


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## Wookii (5 Mar 2020)

papa_c said:


> Troll snot from Harry Potter!



for some reason the gif disappeared from my post. I was thinking more this:


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## Tim Harrison (6 Mar 2020)

Haha, I know either way pretty disgusting...



zozo said:


> View attachment 132134


Thanks Marcel 
Just noticed you've given me a staring role 


CooKieS said:


> Nice start Tim but That’s very low plant mass, how do you manage algae? Low intensity on the twinstar?


Thanks CooKies, the plant mass is very low atm, there are a load of plants hiding behind the hardscape but they are mostly very immature stems grown in vitro, and some Crypts which are busy melting. So I'm doing as near as damn it 100% water changes every day, the Twinstar is on at 60% for 8hrs (should reduce it to 6hrs but I can't be bothered; I'll see hw it goes), and for what it's worth have the Twinstar Nano on as well, and I'm dosing LC every day.



CooKieS said:


> all this mess with cig filters and silicon reminds me of the awful start of my current scape...ain’t gonna do the same mistake; my new wood is currently sitting in a big bucket full of water ...won’t use it as long as it doesn’t sink


I know, I've mostly managed to get away with it in the past, but I think I'll be soaking the wood from now on as well, if only to get it past the slime stage


----------



## CooKieS (6 Mar 2020)

Yeah soaking needs you to be patient but that helps to avoid lots of problems (tannins, slime, floating wood, détritus coming from the wood...).

Cig filters and silicone works great at an live event or contest hence why it’s so popular.


----------



## Tim Harrison (6 Mar 2020)

Damn it, the Myriophyllum 'Guyana' has melted and died by the looks of things... 
I'll have to pick some more up next time I visit AG.
On the plus side the Rotala 'H' ra' seems to be doing okay


----------



## Mr.Shenanagins (6 Mar 2020)

Yeah your telling me with the wood, mine is a disgusting mess of slimy bacteria and detritus...going on 3 weeks


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## Wookii (6 Mar 2020)

My wood got covered in slime too when I added it - it took longer than your though, about 3-4 weeks - but the shrimp and Otos seemed chew through it in no time once I added them to the tank. There was just one small patch that none of them would touch, that I had to manually remove.


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## CooKieS (6 Mar 2020)

Discovered that M.guyana is very sensitive to fungus , better wait for the tank to mature and then plant it again.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (6 Mar 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Discovered that M.guyana is very sensitive to fungus , better wait for the tank to mature and then plant it again.


 Sorry Tim don’t mean to thread jack, but it’s funny you mention that cookies.

My mermaid weed was growing literally like a weed when I planted it and then all of a sudden the lower leaves were melting and the plant was looking like hell. The plant was close to the wood where a good amount of the fungus was growing and it appeared to have taken over the lower half of the plant. Either that, or diatoms.


----------



## Jayefc1 (6 Mar 2020)

Just to add to this soaking the wood will not prevent the fungus either it will stop it floating yes but the wood in my new scape has been soaking for 6 month in rain water that constantly over flows and when I came to use it i scrubed it clean bleached then boiled it for 30 mins and I still have the white fungus that has melted leaves on Anubias and some hygrophila pinnatifida 

Cheers 
Jay


----------



## Tim Harrison (7 Mar 2020)

Thanks for the tips guys @Wookii and @Jayefc1 it's very much appreciated. And good to know @CooKieS and @Mr.Shenanagins about M. Guyana and it's sensitivity to fungus. I'll take your advice and wait till the tank stabilises before trying again.

My dwarf hairgrass is all but brown as well  I think the fungus from the wood has pretty much done for quite a few of the plants one way or another. I think the next move is to get a clean up crew in there, especially since the slime is making a comeback. But my drop checker indicator fluid has somehow become contaminated and doesn't work any more, so I'm waiting on a new bottle so I can dial the CO2 in first.


----------



## CooKieS (7 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Just to add to this soaking the wood will not prevent the fungus either it will stop it floating yes but the wood in my new scape has been soaking for 6 month in rain water that constantly over flows and when I came to use it i scrubed it clean bleached then boiled it for 30 mins and I still have the white fungus that has melted leaves on Anubias and some hygrophila pinnatifida
> 
> Cheers
> Jay



Snails are very effective fungus eaters and aren’t sensitive to nitrites so can be added at day 1 but I know @Tim Harrison hate them.


----------



## Jayefc1 (7 Mar 2020)

Thats good to know as I've just been to ward aquatics and purchased 4 batman snails and 20 fire red sukura shrimp lol


----------



## Tim Harrison (7 Mar 2020)

CooKieS said:


> Snails are very effective fungus eaters and aren’t sensitive to nitrites so can be added at day 1 but I know @Tim Harrison hate them.


With a passion boardering on the pathological 
Snails, and Myriapods....


----------



## Jayefc1 (7 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> With a passion boardering on the pathological
> Snails, and Myriapods


I can understand that with pest snails 

Do you not think that some.snails are a good part of the clean up.crew


----------



## Tim Harrison (7 Mar 2020)

Yes sure Jay, I'm an ecologist by training, we tend to lump them in to the category of decomposers (or perhaps more accurately detritivores) along with slugs, worms, fungi, bacteria, etc same difference as the moniker bestowed on them by the planted tank world, "clean up crew", I guess. There's just something about them that seriously turns my stomach


----------



## Jayefc1 (7 Mar 2020)

If that's the way they make you feel I completely understand some people its spider with you its snails


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## Mr.Shenanagins (7 Mar 2020)

Get a whiff of one that has passed on, talk about turning your stomach. However I think Nerites are the best of both worlds, they clean up AND they can’t spawn. I haven’t experienced eggs yet but I imagine that’s annoying if they lay them everywhere.

And yes I think any delicate leaf type plant is susceptible to this nasty crap. My hygro siamensis was not affected nor any of my epiphytes.


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## Tim Harrison (16 Mar 2020)

The moss is growing and transitioning well, and so is the Rotala.
But that's about it, the rest of the plants aren't really doing much except melting.

And the big Buce is looking decidedly ropey as it transitions from immersed to emersed growth
I think I'm going to have to give the scape some thought as to it's future...suggestions welcome


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## Aeropars (16 Mar 2020)

Hi Tim,

Thats a shame. Some of your other scapes have been spot on so i expected you'd be able to recover this.

Just noticed you are in Leicester. Do you use any of the local places for anything plant related?


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## CooKieS (16 Mar 2020)

This king of scape with low plant mass and big pieces of wood are always very difficult at start...don’t give up Tim, add some floaters and fast growing stems that’s doesn’t need to be planted and be patient.

Or, just rescape this into a pure NA style, which is a very simple and rewarding style


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## Tim Harrison (16 Mar 2020)

Aeropars said:


> Thats a shame. Some of your other scapes have been spot on so i expected you'd be able to recover this.


I guess it is in a way, and I suppose it's easily recoverable with a bit of patience, but I'm not sure I want to. I'm missing the dense plant growth I usually go for in my scapes 


Aeropars said:


> Just noticed you are in Leicester. Do you use any of the local places for anything plant related?


No not really, most have snail infested plants, one even blamed the tap water; apparently snail eggs are in our potable supply 
I tend to buy my stuff online or more likely take a trip to AG 


CooKieS said:


> Or, just rescape this into a pure NA style, which is a very simple and rewarding style


Great minds... I've just been pouring over Takashi Amano's Nature Aquarium Complete Works 1985-2009; it's my go to for inspiration. I keep looking at the scape thinking replace the sand with AS and just plant it all up. I'm thinking maybe keep the hardscape as is and plant loads of crypts, and the foreground with L. brasiliensis etc


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## Ady34 (16 Mar 2020)

Go with tour gut Tim, it’s a hobby not a sentence and you need to enjoy it 
I’m sure you could persevere and have success with your knowledge, but will that give you any pleasure?
Anyway, once you start looking at books for inspiration the decision has already been made subconsciously 
Cheerio
Ady.


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## Tim Harrison (17 Mar 2020)

And breath...




Hardscape raised so it's not swamped by AS




Foundations laid for a more traditional NA look, I'm now busy compiling a planting list; loads of crypts so far.






Ady34 said:


> Go with tour gut Tim, it’s a hobby not a sentence and you need to enjoy it


That's advice I'm usually dispensing, and something I very nearly forgot; thanks for reminding me Ady 


Ady34 said:


> Anyway, once you start looking at books for inspiration the decision has already been made subconsciously


Haha, you're so right...again. It was my original plan but the scape lost tension and impact when I added AS so I went down the gravel route. I'm much happier with the scape already. NA is where it's at


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## DeepMetropolis (17 Mar 2020)

Think this will look nice with an Eleocharis mini carpet. Some small crypts and a Myriophylium as backgrond stem.


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## Tim Harrison (17 Mar 2020)

DeepMetropolis said:


> Think this will look nice with an Eleocharis mini carpet. Some small crypts and a Myriophylium as backgrond stem.


That's exactly my thinking 
I did buy M. 'Guyana' but it melted, I'm definitely going to try and get some more; it's a really sexy plant


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## DeepMetropolis (17 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> I did buy M. 'Guyana' but it melted, I'm definitely going to try and get some more; it's a really sexy plant



Yes I think it will make the tank look bigger then plain Rotala.. Ive wanted to try it out also but I never had a nice place for it..


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## Jayefc1 (17 Mar 2020)

I have to admit @Tim Harrison I think it looks better already too


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## Tim Harrison (17 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> I have to admit @Tim Harrison I think it looks better already too


Thanks Jay 


DeepMetropolis said:


> Yes I think it will make the tank look bigger then plain Rotala.. Ive wanted to try it out also but I never had a nice place for it..


I've removed the top rock; since I raised the scape the stems would have just peeked over its top. I had to lever it off with a screwdriver, the cigarette and superglue bonding method really works well.
It looks a bit sparse atm but the gap will soon fill with plants, that is once the stems grow and I buy another epiphyte or two.


----------



## Mr.Shenanagins (17 Mar 2020)

Sorry to hear this Tim, my tank has taken a dive as well. Mainly my fault due to lack of maintenance, shouldn’t start a tank the same week your wife has your first child ‍♂️. But I’m going to start over when I get the funds to get new plants. All my epiphytes are doing well but my stems have all but melted or withered away. Will make sure to plant much more densely this time. What I find most difficult is ordering plants online and not knowing how much your going to get when it finally arrives. Live and learn. Good luck with the restart, I’ve loved your previous scapes.


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## Tim Harrison (18 Mar 2020)

Thanks, and congratulations @Mr.Shenanagins 

This sort of thing happens to the best of us, it's not much of a problem really. I've only lost the M. 'Guyana', the Crypts are sprouting new leaves and I expect the rest of the plants will make a recovery eventually. I'm sure you'll get there too.
And I know what you mean about not being sure how many plants to order, it's one of the reasons I mostly use AG, I pretty much know what I'm going to get; I've got a list I'm sending over today.


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## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

The plants arrived yesterday, super fast delivery from AG and super healthy plants.
The whole scape has come to life and feels much better for denser planting.
Looking forward to seeing this scape grow in and mature


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## zozo (20 Mar 2020)

Looks nice Tim!..  What kind of moss have you placed on the wood going emersed?...


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## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Thanks Marcel, the scape isn't especially groundbreaking but I fancied setting up a more traditional type of NA scape.
The moss is mini Christmas moss. It's my favourite, the individual leaves stay quite small but once it gets going, grows quite fast.


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## Mr.Shenanagins (20 Mar 2020)

Very nice Tim, hope it grows well for ya.


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## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

It looks really nice Tim I prefer it to take 1 and 2 the mini Christmas is a beautiful moss and your right once it goes it grows lol


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## alto (20 Mar 2020)

Looks grand (of course )

But - if I’m allowed a but - I do miss that second rock, the wood looks precarious without that supporting stone
though obviously this will disappear as plants grow in (hint: a tangle of vines )

Well done on the Chaos Management!

Which Marsilea did you choose?


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Thanks @Mr.Shenanagins and @Jayefc1, and @alto your kind words are much appreciated.



alto said:


> But - if I’m allowed a but - I do miss that second rock, the wood looks precarious without that supporting stone
> though obviously this will disappear as plants grow in (hint: a tangle of vines )


Yeah, I guess you're right about that but it'd get lost in plant growth eventually and I thought it relatively insignificant and therefore unnecessarily complicated. The problem I have is the hardscape is really too big for a 60-P it would perhaps be more at home in a 90cm wide tank where I could add a more substantial rock (that wouldn't get lost) and still maintain balance. But I was determined to use the root anyway 



alto said:


> Which Marsilea did you choose?


The smaller of the two, _M. crenata _


----------



## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> The problem I have is the hardscape is really too big for a 60-P it would perhaps be more at home in a 90cm wide tank where I could add a more substantial rock


Or maybe a 120p in the new house when you move


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## Deano3 (20 Mar 2020)

Looks great time as said great hardscape and plant list should develop into a great scape and nice and open on the right.

Dean

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> Or maybe a 120p in the new house when you move


Haha, that's the plan, but looking unlikely this side of Christmas now because of you know what 


Deano3 said:


> Looks great time as said great hardscape and plant list should develop into a great scape


Thanks Dean, hopefully it will develop without any more dramas, and yes it should become a nice enough looking scape given time.


Deano3 said:


> nice and open on the right.
> 
> Dean
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


I like negative space and was trying to create a scape with as much of it as I could get away with. The planting won out in the end tho', but I think I've ended up with a decent balance all the same.


----------



## Thomas Cranham (20 Mar 2020)

Massive inspiration for my first scape


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## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Thomas Cranham said:


> Massive inspiration for my first scape


Thanks Thomas 
Most of the plants I've used are fairly easy to grow so they're a good choice for a first scape.


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## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> Haha, that's the plan, but looking unlikely this side of Christmas now because of you know what


That sucks mate but at least you have the Woodland Troll to keep.you busy


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> but at least you have the Woodland Troll to keep.you busy


Exactly Jay, that's always been part of the plan too. It's amazing how much better I feel knowing I have a planted tank to take my mind of the strange times undoubtedly ahead


----------



## Jayefc1 (20 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> It's amazing how much better I feel knowing I have a planted tank to take my mind of the strange time we all find ourselves in



In a strange way though it's actually been nice to have the time at home to appreciate just how lucky we are even with the uncertainty that surrounds us


----------



## Paul27 (20 Mar 2020)

Have to say I did like the original scape but you've made it even better, maybe what happened, happened for a reason. Going to look epic when that all grows in.


----------



## Tim Harrison (20 Mar 2020)

Jayefc1 said:


> In a strange way though it's actually been nice to have the time at home to appreciate just how lucky we are even with the uncertainty that surrounds us


That's true, it's like a pause for thought, perhaps reminding us of what's important in life 


Paul27 said:


> Have to say I did like the original scape but you've made it even better, maybe what happened, happened for a reason. Going to look epic when that all grows in.


Thanks Paul, I'm hoping so


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## Jayefc1 (21 Mar 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> That's true, it's like a pause for thought, perhaps reminding us of what's important in life


Agreed it's far to easy to forget what we achive and how important our family is


----------



## Tim Harrison (22 Mar 2020)

It's all settling down quite well, and so far very little melt.

Been getting a bit frustrated with my original Up Atomiser, I've had to clean it at the beginning of every photoperiod so far. It works fine throughout and then the next morning refuses to allow any CO2 through. I've swapped out the reg and that's okay. I've cleaned it in limescale bleach and now Steradent.

I'm going to leave the gas on 24/7 now at a reduced output see if that makes any difference. I've been meaning to try that method anyway so now would seem like a good time, especially since I don't have any critters to worry about.

Not much has changed visually but I thought I'd post another snap nonetheless. Like I mentioned before, nothing groundbreaking, just fancied creating a scape with a more traditional NA look


----------



## GHNelson (22 Mar 2020)

Hi Tim
The atomiser might have a leak or working pressure too low!
hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison (22 Mar 2020)

Thanks hoggie, you're right and I've checked, both are fine. WP is at 3 bar and no leaks 

I think it's maybe a little old and that I may need to buy a new one. I wish I'd known when I ordered the plants, now I'll also have to pay separate postage as well


----------



## GHNelson (22 Mar 2020)

Hi Tim
Where is your non-return valve placed on the Co2 line!


----------



## Tim Harrison (22 Mar 2020)

Hi hoggie,

It's built in to the bubble counter, I know it's letting the CO2 through 'casue I tried it and got a blast of water in the face.
Classic comedy style... looking down a hose pipe waiting for the water to come out, d'oh... 
And it's also doing its job of stopping the water back syphoning in to the reg.


----------



## GHNelson (22 Mar 2020)

Hi Tim
I would add another good quality one just before the Atomiser!
This will keep the working pressure up in the atomiser chamber.
That might help!
I always used 2 check valves running Co2 from a cylinder.
hoggie


----------



## Tim Harrison (22 Mar 2020)

Thanks hoggie, that's a good tip I'll try that


----------



## Keetchy (23 Mar 2020)

Tank looking good bud. Carpet is really coming along and a great colour.

Funny you say about your promise cause my bps has stayed the same but the mist seems to be reduced out of my Flux Bazooka diffuser, even after cleaning it out. Strange. Hope you get to the bottom of it bud


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## Tim Harrison (23 Mar 2020)

Mark Keetch said:


> Tank looking good bud. Carpet is really coming along and a great colour.
> 
> Funny you say about your promise cause my bps has stayed the same but the mist seems to be reduced out of my Flux Bazooka diffuser, even after cleaning it out. Strange. Hope you get to the bottom of it bud


Thanks, I think it's the bubble counter. Working fine, switched gas off during water change, stopped working, released pressure atomiser side of the bubble counter, started working again. They just don't make things to last these days


----------



## Andrew T (23 Mar 2020)

Tim,
If you can hide an ugly contraption like this behind your tank, it’s worth implementing.Mine is in a closet taped on the wall so no one will ever see it ...




Nothing new, 2 Industrial co2 check valves one before and one after the bubble counter. And the fact that this bubble counter can be reversed to observe small bubbles vs large bubbles by flipping it upside down makes a huge difference in reading co2 especially in tanks with higher bps.

I’m sure it’s not a problem for most folks running a couple bps but mine is over 5-6 bps with my open sump so I flipped it upside down and now it’s one huge bubble per second...much easier to read and filling it up with water doesn’t involve twisting tubing off of it anymore with a possibility to crack the ends. Just unplug the cap and you’re done in 5 seconds.

Just thought I’d throw this out there since I’ve had my fair share of co2 frustrations and found this the most reliable along with a reactor.

Check valves and counter were purchased from GLA ...


The above pic is to show flow options.
Here’s the ER version with the fill-up port:


----------



## Tom Michael (24 Mar 2020)

nice scape Tim - interested to see how you get on with the Co2 on constant at a lower rate and how that compares.


----------



## Tim Harrison (25 Mar 2020)

Thanks @Tom Michael, I've abandoned that idea for the moment since things still stopped working. I might give it a go another time when I get my CO2 sorted tho' 
And thanks very much for the info @Andrew T, good to know. I might go down that route


----------



## Mr.Shenanagins (25 Mar 2020)

That’s what I like about my internal Venturi, I use it as a bubble counter as well.


----------



## Tim Harrison (29 Mar 2020)

The scape could really do with a cleanup crew. It hasn't helped that I've had CO2 issues. I've got filamentous algae growing in random places. Brown diatomaceous algae on some plants, slimy blobs on the wood, and the crypts are loosing some leaves to melt but growing new ones. The moss is also growing but looking a bit worse for wear.

I'm still doing daily water changes, 100% and 50% on alternate days which I think is helping...


----------



## Jayefc1 (29 Mar 2020)

Having the same issues mate I feel your pain


----------



## Tim Harrison (29 Mar 2020)

We were running out of cat food so made an essential trip to Pets @ Home.
They still have livestock, including Amano shrimp 
But none for sale  
So close but yet so far 
Well at least the cat won't starve, we might though


----------



## dw1305 (29 Mar 2020)

Hi all,





Tim Harrison said:


> I've got filamentous algae growing in random places.


But it is pearling beautifully. They really look like a string of pearls.



 

cheers Darrel


----------



## Sammy Islam (29 Mar 2020)

I've been struggling with diatoms in the last month and it's pretty annoying. I started dosing 3ml easycarbo daily for the last week and i would say the diatoms have reduced by 25%, so i assume it's slowly helping.


----------



## CooKieS (29 Mar 2020)

Sammy Islam said:


> I've been struggling with diatoms in the last month and it's pretty annoying. I started dosing 3ml easycarbo daily for the last week and i would say the diatoms have reduced by 25%, so i assume it's slowly helping.



ottos and Japonica shrimps loves them. Otherwise check your filter for accumulation of dirt


----------



## Andrew T (29 Mar 2020)

Tim, very sorry to see you’re having issues.
Hopefully you can get the co2 figured out and algae issues sorted. It would be a shame to take this down.
Can you not have amanos shipped during these times to your house?
An army of them could do some significant damage...


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## Tim Harrison (29 Mar 2020)

Andrew T said:


> Tim, very sorry to see you’re having issues.


Thanks Andrew, It's not a problem really, it'll all come good eventually 


Andrew T said:


> Hopefully you can get the co2 figured out and algae issues sorted. It would be a shame to take this down.


I've decided it's the atomizer after all, and have ordered a new one, so the CO2 issues should be sorted soon.


Andrew T said:


> Can you not have amanos shipped during these times to your house?


I've looked in to it and had some great suggestions, but I think I'll just wait for a window in this madness and source them locally


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## Andrew T (30 Mar 2020)

Tim,
Regarding the co2 check valve recommendation I made earlier..the hose has to be a specific OD to stay in place in those quick lock fittings; not a good thing since people use different OD size co2 hoses.

So tonight I had some issues with one when moving things around. The hose pulled out just a bit and I could hear slight hissing noise (co2 flow is high in my system ).

So back to the drawing board (google lol).
Ordered an SMC 210 stainless steel Check valve 1/8” Male to female flow.
This installs straight into my Ideal 1/8” needle valve eliminating any need for in-line plastic check valves prone to cracking/leaking, etc.

Add a swagelok fitting 1/8” NPT to 3/16” hose barb, hook up the hose and you’re in business.

Ofcourse you don’t “need” stainless steel but it’s nice.
Different valves come with different seals (Buna, Viton) with minimal price increase but check flow arrows cuz some valves flow from male to female
While others the other way.

There’s options for 1/4” needle valves and other configurations but here are the pics for the 2 parts and 2D drawing of the valve.

This paired with a quality bubble counter should last a lifetime....well what’s left of it
Sorry for the long post just thought I’d share a cleaner/better setup .
All this should cost roughly $40 USD. If found on eBay even cheaper.


 

 

 

 

When all connected, should look similar to this except barb fitting(which I prefer) instead of nut ferrules fittings or quick connects(same problems with hose diameter; been there done that).




Uhh, that was a lot of words.
Take care!


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## Tim Harrison (30 Mar 2020)

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that info Andrew


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## Tim Harrison (20 Apr 2020)

This scape is no more, it's been torn down...

After a few weeks diatomaceous algae set in for the duration of the lockdown; well so it seemed. I then got repeated attacks of BG algae.
The surface layer of the wood started to disintegrate and release organics and grew a lovely fur coat with large gelatinous blobs. I'm convinced the fungus was releasing phytotoxin.
Eventually I gave up firefighting, despite daily 100% water changes and regular filter cleans the situation didn't get any better.

The scape has kicked the bucket,  shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! This is an ex-scape!...


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## Wookii (20 Apr 2020)

Tim Harrison said:


> This scape is no more, it's been torn down...
> 
> After a few weeks diatomaceous algae set in for the duration of the lockdown; well so it seemed. I then got repeated attacks of BG algae.
> The surface layer of the wood started to disintegrate and release organics and grew a lovely fur coat with large gelatinous blobs. I'm convinced the fungus was releasing phytotoxin.
> ...




LOL Tim, I was waiting for the 21-gun salute at the end after the bugle player.


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## Jayefc1 (20 Apr 2020)

Shame it couldnt be got on top it was a nice lay out


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## zozo (20 Apr 2020)

So it definitively was Trolling!? Pitty, it looked great so far... Up to the next, but then call it Woodland Fairy instead.


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## alto (20 Apr 2020)

Commiserations 

It really was a lovely hardscape and initial planting - and that Wood looked so innocent on the outside


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## Ady34 (21 Apr 2020)

Nightmare. 
Like Jay, Zozo and Alto, I loved the hardscape, crazy how it can go like this without any obvious sign. 
A horrible end in these times; scapes can calm and relax and focus the mind but this is just a kick in the proverbials.
What’s your plan next Tim?


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## Tim Harrison (21 Apr 2020)

Thanks guys for the kind comments. In the end I just got fed up of looking at its miserable face and on impulse tore it down.
On the upside I got to create something new which always lifts the spirits, so alls well that ends well...so far


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