# Lighting advice from you friendly chaps!



## Lunar Jetman (14 Nov 2012)

I have a query regarding lighting that I’d appreciate some advice on.

I currently have a tank that measures 120cm long, 40cm wide and 60cm deep, with a capacity of 288 litres. About 3-4 months ago I started using CO2 via the JBL M602 and dosing with plant fertilisers from Aquarium Plant Food UK via their dry salts starter kit, using their recommended mix.

I’ve always kept plants but this is the first time I’ve gone above low tech with ferts and CO2. I’ve relied on readings on here and manufacturers advice so far but apart from some Giant Vallis that is nearly a metre in length, the rest of the plants I have seem to struggle. I think its due to lighting to be honest.

I only have the tubes that came with the tank, A Rena Classic. It has two T8 tubes and they produce approximately 40w each, making 80w in total which I’m pretty sure isn’t enough even for a low light tank but I welcome your views.


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## Dolly Sprint 16v (14 Nov 2012)

Hi

Probably down to the vallis blocking out the light. You could add T5 light but you will have to increase fertz, Co2, water circulation etc but its like walking on a tightrope get one item wrong heaps of trouble ie Algae by the bucket load - get rid of the vallis and this should allow the light to penetrate through the water to the lower plants.

Do have the room to add another T8 tube - better to add another T8 tube than T5 tubes.

Regards
paul


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## Lunar Jetman (14 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the reply Paul. Are you saying that 90w would be enough to light the tank for low level plants if I got rid of the Vallis?

The only reason I ask is because one half of the tank is in shade from the Vallis whilst the other isn't and its plants on both sides of the tank that seem to suffer.


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## krazypara3165 (14 Nov 2012)

.....you say your using co2?  have you moved the drop checker round the tank to see if everywhere good? if the flow isn't just right you could get dead spots. Also what is the problem with the plants? are they actually dying, or is it just poor growth? if you make sure those perimeters are good first before upgrading lights you could save yourself money. however if all is fine and your just experiencing poor growth id say it could be worthwhile upgrading the lighting. Was your light unit brand new or second hand? as bulbs loose some of their effectiveness after 6 months so if its a few years old t may be worthwhile replacing the bulbs. if all else fails and you live near cheshire, i have a 120cm twin t5 light unit with built in reflectors which is 5 days old that im willing to sell!


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## Lunar Jetman (14 Nov 2012)

thanks for your reply krazypara. The drop checker is on the other side of the tank to the diffuser but as you say, it could be something related and worth checking.

The plants just seem to do two things. One is struggle and get stringy and thin at the bottom, other plants have just struggled and slowly died off. I have some plants that have grown up but thin out at the bottom so in some cases are just stalks and don't look very nice. That was why I wondered about light at the low levels of my tank. I had some HC which just seemed to disintegrate. I'll have to see if I can get some photos as examples later.

The tank was new to me in 2006 including the lighting unit which came with it and I've been replacing the bulbs at least yearly.

Unfortunately I'm just outside the M25 in Denham so bit of a long way to go to Cheshire but thanks for the offer!


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## ceg4048 (14 Nov 2012)

Lunar Jetman said:
			
		

> ..The plants just seem to do two things. One is struggle and get stringy and thin at the bottom, other plants have just struggled and slowly died off. I have some plants that have grown up but thin out at the bottom so in some cases are just stalks and don't look very nice. That was why I wondered about light at the low levels of my tank. I had some HC which just seemed to disintegrate. I'll have to see if I can get some photos as examples later.


You'd best stop thinking about lighting and start thinking about CO2, flow and distribution. These symptoms have absolutely nothing to do with light and have everything to do with poor CO2. A 288 Liter tank needs 2880 LPH of flow ideally and that flow has to be distributed properly. Adding more light will only make those plants die faster.

Cheers,


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## Lunar Jetman (14 Nov 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Lunar Jetman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, so just to be clear, you're saying that the lighting for my tank is ok and that I should concentrate on CO2, flow and distribution which is the likely cause of my plants either fading away or growing tall and thin/losing leaves at the bottom of stalks?

Cheers.


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## ceg4048 (15 Nov 2012)

Hello,
        Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. Fading, dying and lower leaf falling is caused by poor CO2, and growing tall and thin is due to poor water flow. Unfortunately, The Matrix has imprisoned our minds and has programmed us to always seek more light as a solution to problems. The justifications given are often zany or otherwise completely ludicrous. Without understanding what is happening at the cellular level, it's difficult to assess the truth.

As it turns out, adding more watts is seldom the correct path. In order to be free, one has to gain a better understanding of the natural forces at work in the tank. Click on these couple threads and also study the thread links they contain:
Bacopa Caroliniana problem?
Old Skool Returnee - London tap water?

Cheers,


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## Lunar Jetman (15 Nov 2012)

ceg4048 said:
			
		

> Hello,
> Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. Fading, dying and lower leaf falling is caused by poor CO2, and growing tall and thin is due to poor water flow. Unfortunately, The Matrix has imprisoned our minds and has programmed us to always seek more light as a solution to problems. The justifications given are often zany or otherwise completely ludicrous. Without understanding what is happening at the cellular level, it's difficult to assess the truth.
> 
> As it turns out, adding more watts is seldom the correct path. In order to be free, one has to gain a better understanding of the natural forces at work in the tank. Click on these couple threads and also study the thread links they contain:
> ...



Firstly, thanks for taking the time to reply and providing the threads and sub threads! It all makes sense now that my mind is free! 

Really appreciate the help and guidance on this. I'm now thinking, based on this that I need to increase the flow and look for an inline diffuser to get CO2 around my tank more effectively. I did have some Easycarbo that I've recently obtained which might help I guess but if the flow is not right it won't spread around the tank properly.

Do you think it possible that as my diffuser is hidden behind my Vallis, the Vallis is grabbing most or all of the CO2? Therefore an inline diffuser would be more efficient in distributing CO2. I guess even if not the inline diffuser would be more efficient anyway.


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## ceg4048 (15 Nov 2012)

Hello,
        Welcome to the desert...of the real. 

You should always consider the use of liquid carbon as either a short term fix, or as a long term adjunct to your CO2 technique. Cost is the major limiting factor for larger tanks long term. Since this is a liquid and not a gas it has an easier time finding it's way to the plants.

An inline device is always a better distribution solution, especially on larger tanks. Many people report success with the UP Atomizer. The Aquamedic 1000 or it's DIY equivalents is another solution, but is a much larger device and so is not good generally if space is limited. There is also the more elegant but equally effective CalAqua inline diffuser. The cheapest solution of all is to port the gas directly into the filter intake pipe and to let the filter do the work of mashing up the bubbles and dissolving the gas.

Cheers,


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## Ady34 (15 Nov 2012)

Hi,
one thing to take into consideration is that if you want to keep your vallis, some say it reacts badly to liquid carbon dosing, especially with the overdosing we tend to use on our planted tanks. 
In the short term you could try positioning your c02 diffuser either under your filter inlet or outlet for better distribution as Clive says.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## jack-rythm (22 Nov 2012)

Is this a joke? This comment is everywhere...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Ady34 (22 Nov 2012)

jack-rythm said:
			
		

> Is this a joke? This comment is everywhere...
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


What comment?


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## krazypara3165 (22 Nov 2012)

Was a post about fake rolexs and stuff im presuming, the same post was duplicated on near enough every post. Some form of spam....


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## Ady34 (22 Nov 2012)

krazypara3165 said:
			
		

> Was a post about fake rolexs and stuff im presuming, the same post was duplicated on near enough every post. Some form of spam....


Cheers for the clarification


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## Lunar Jetman (26 Nov 2012)

Just as an update, I have a Rena XP2 and XP3 running on the tank. Hoping to get an UP atomiser to help disperse CO2 more effectively but short term have put the CO2 tube just inside one of the filter intake pipes.

Not seen much improvement in the plants yet. Might take some photos later.


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## Lunar Jetman (26 Nov 2012)

Oh and I've no idea what this Rolex thing is all about!


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## jack-rythm (26 Nov 2012)

yeah lol it wasn't me being rude! I came on one morning and there was fake rolex's being posted on every single post.. it was mental. !


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## Lunar Jetman (29 Nov 2012)

Here are a couple of pictures of my plants.











Thoughts?


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## foxfish (30 Nov 2012)

It certainly looks like you dont have enough C02! 
What sort of Co2 set up do you have, can you see how many bubbles are going through the counter?
You dont have very bright lighting so you should be able to manage the C02 but, it definitely looks like you are not injecting enough!
What size cylinder do you have?


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## Lunar Jetman (30 Nov 2012)

foxfish said:
			
		

> It certainly looks like you dont have enough C02!
> What sort of Co2 set up do you have, can you see how many bubbles are going through the counter?
> You dont have very bright lighting so you should be able to manage the C02 but, it definitely looks like you are not injecting enough!
> What size cylinder do you have?



I'm using the JBL m602 with a 500g bottle. I am currently running at 2 bubbles a second but I've had a few problems with the set up. The check valve that came with the setup failed so that water got back down to the solenoid. This only happened when it it was off so the water didn't reach the regulator but seems to have had an effect on the solenoid which is now temperamental.

As a result it either doesn't always turn off at night or doesn't always come on properly. I've just bought some Easy Carbo that I thought would do for the meantime until i get the solenoid fixed/replaced.

Since the plants are suffering from lack of CO2 I guess i need to be religious with the Easy Carbo until the hardware is fixed?


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## ceg4048 (30 Nov 2012)

Yes, Please immediately travel to the Shaolin Temple and burn incense. When you can snatch the pebble from the masters hand... it will be time for you to discontinue the Easycarbo.

Cheers,


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