# Ideal photoperiod for pallidarium?



## TBRO (3 Jan 2019)

Hi,

Was wondering how to get the best out of my emersed growing plants in my pallidarium set up  https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-falls-dooa-wall-60.55928/

I’ve got a dimmer now for the twinstar light, running at 50% seems to cause a lot less desiccation. Thus I was wondering if I should extend my current 5 hours photo period? 

The light is towards the back so it shines more on the plants than the water, would a 12 hour photo period be asking for trouble, algae wise in the underwater section? 

I think it is pretty heavily filtered for it’s size, aprox 21 L, Eheim 250 classic + the foam pads of the moss wall + quite a bit of lava rock in the tank itself. 

Grateful of opinions on this, thanks 


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## dw1305 (3 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





TBRO said:


> Thus I was wondering if I should extend my current 5 hours photo period?


I would. I'd give 12 hours a go. 

cheers Darrel


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## TBRO (3 Jan 2019)

Thanks Darrel, I’m hoping the emergant growth will out run algae in the race for nutrition, given it has unrestricted access to CO2. 

Added some Hydrocotyle verticla to the Wall, it usually goes like crazy. 


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## mort (3 Jan 2019)

I think you've got it right in that your emergent plants should outcompete the algae in fact when your plants get going you may find it hard to grow anything under water unless you provide plenty of nutrients.


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## TBRO (3 Jan 2019)

Thanks mort, I’m probably OK with that. I like the contrast between the green above water and the bare rocks below. I’m going to have a few anubias underwater but nothing else. I’m going to fert the water, as this will fertilize everything. T 


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## TBRO (8 Jan 2019)

Can anyone advise on Humidity I should be aiming for? 

Hygrometer in tank reads in the mid 70%. Is that humid enough? 









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## zozo (8 Jan 2019)

TBRO said:


> Hygrometer in tank reads in the mid 70%. Is that humid enough?



Usualy that's enough. Depends a bit on the planting..  But even plants that are growen at 90% if transitioned slowly to 70% can do ok. For example emersed java fern is such a sensitive plant, usualy recomended 90%, but does good in lower when it goes down gradualy...

Better to get a high/low meter.. Than you can monitor its latest highest and lowest Humidity during the complet 24 hour cycle.There are small digital ones doing both thermo and hygro, with sensor on a cable and the actual unit outside.

Anyway, when lights go out humidity may lower as well.. This way you can see if 70% during the day doesn't get to low at lights out.


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## TBRO (8 Jan 2019)

Thanks Marcel, excellent knowledge! 

The small amount of Java fern I tried did die back but the rhizome is putting out new leaves, so I’m hopeful.

I’m also trying some Bolbitis but I just trimmed that back to the rhizome straight away.

Can you recommend a hygrometer, there seem to dozens on Amazon? 


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## foxfish (8 Jan 2019)

Your tank looks great! Is there a reason you don’t want a glass top?

I have found it really differcult to keep most of our regular aquarium plant in anything other than 90% + humidity.

That is not to say it can’t be done of course just that I have struggled myself.

If I really want fast, vigorous  and lush growth then I seal the top and turn up the lights.
From my own experience, many  plants need to permanently wet to even grow at all!
I have also found that I can only vent the tanks once the plants have really filled in the space, I assume this is because the plants hold much more humidity than the open space inside the tank?

I have had lots of disappointments over the years, useing fresh tap water in a sprayer can have disastrous results, opening the top, even small amounts, has also spoilt my displays. Not straight away but normally after a few days I can spot deterioration and very often the results are huge die off!
Useing to much ferts can wipe out moss.
Obviously I am not very good at this as the only way that has worked for me also causes a permanent fogged up front glass!
However I have kept some of my displays for years on end.
If I were you I would at least partially close off the top. Perhaps you can gradually adapt the plants that way?


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## zozo (9 Jan 2019)

Thank you too.. 



TBRO said:


> Can you recommend a hygrometer, there seem to dozens on Amazon?



No actualy i can't, at least i don't see the same ones i used in the past.. But i guess all are fairly simmular it depends a  bit on your preferences and placement options. If i need to buy one again my personal preference would go out to one that displays a High - Low reading and with an external sensor and hang the actual device outside the paludarium. Eliminates the risk, it ever falling into the water.  And it's not an eyesore focal point in the setup.

Something like this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Humidity-Temperature-Meter-with-Alarm-Clock-Hygrometer-Weather-Gauge/122173398202?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=02b8beb6027648b1a4f5ebbf46f3af56&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=3&sd=252575950551&itm=122173398202&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


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## TBRO (9 Jan 2019)

Foxfish and zozo, thanks for all the great information. 

Was on Pinterest and found some of my old Wabi kusa. Seems I managed to get a number of things growing in room air. Certainly species like Hydrocotyle, Rotala and Hygrophila seem pretty resilient as long as the roots stay wet. 





Can anyone ID the fine leaved stem in this pic? Would be nice in my new scape! (Bottom Right corner)





Reasons for no glass lid; 1) Vanity - I like the open top look 2) Would love plants to grow out the top 3) Would be tricky to fit all the hardware (probably do able with acrylic). I agree it would make transition easier.

I’ve also noticed that when plants get going they do seem to create a self sustaining micro climate. Presumably the leaves trap humidity, reduce drying air currents etc. 

I’m trying to create as much wet surface as possible to help. For now I keep misting with DI water. The growth has started, much quicker with 12 hr photo period. 


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## TBRO (9 Jan 2019)

I’ve got a fogger but not sure it actually does a lot for humidity. Still looks cool above the water 






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## zozo (10 Jan 2019)

TBRO said:


> Can anyone ID the fine leaved stem in this pic?



That's a difficult one to id with that picture, could be some Rotala sp. You need to let it grow a bit more and get a pic more up close. A flower would be absolute definetive.

Here you can find some lookalikes..  and see why it is difficult..
http://idtools.org/id/appw/gallery.php?page=1


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## dw1305 (10 Jan 2019)

Hi all, 





TBRO said:


> found some of my old Wabi kusa. Seems I managed to get a number of things growing in room air.


The top bowl has native plants, the dark green hairy leaf is a Water Forget-me-not (probably _Myosotis scorpiodes, _but you can't tell which one from the photo), the flowering plant is "Opposite Leaved Golden Saxifrage" (_Chrysosplenium oppositifolium_) and the brown leaved one is either a Willow-herb (_Epilobium_ sp.) or a Water Primrose (_Ludwigia _sp.)





TBRO said:


> Can anyone ID the fine leaved stem in this pic? Would be nice in my new scape


It might be _Rotala wallichii? _My first though was _Didiplis diandra, _but I think that has a wider leaf emersed.

If the leaves are arranged in a whorl? Then a _Rotala_ sp.  looks right. In _Didiplis_ the leaves are in pairs.

cheers Darrel


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## TBRO (10 Jan 2019)

Thanks, I seem to remember having some R.Wallichi in my big tank back then, a lot of the stem plants seemed happy to grow out of the top of that tank. It was probably a cutting from that. This is going back to 2009 now! 


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## TBRO (28 Jan 2019)

Needs more help! 

I think I’m suffering from some kind of deficiency in the emergant plants, particularly the Hydrocotyle species. Mosses doing fine. 

Leaves seem to be yellowing. There were some aphids but seem to have delt with them but still got yellowing. 









Same plants grow well above the water in my high tech tank. 





I use rain water in my emergant scape, so it has very low everything. I’ve been dosing 2ml TNC complete daily. ? Just up the dosage ? Add Rhizotonic 

Thanks for the help 


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