# Quickest and easiest way to cycle tank



## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

Firstly hello, i am new to fish keeping. I have a goldfish which has ich , but he is being treated. I am getting a 25 gal tank soon and heard i. Needed to cycle it. My filter in my goldfish tank has been running for over a week and ive been doing %30 water changes daily.

Whats the best way to cycle a tank? Thanks!


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## Vinkenoog1977 (13 Sep 2014)

There's a BIG difference between "quick and easiest", and best. The BEST way, is to cycle the tank fishless for 8 weeks, doing daily 50% water changes for the first week, every other day the second week, twice a week the third week, and once a week from there on. The quickest and easiest way to cycle, is to use mature filtermedia (i.e., has been used in a different, fully operational and healthy tank for at least 8 weeks) and to use 25% water from a mature tank when first flooding.

But we need more info; will the 25G be a heavily planted tank, will it be tropical or cold water (goldfish), high or low tech, lighting, and more stuff like that. 

But forget about using anything from you're current goldfish tank, because you don't want to start a new tank off with either ich, or the medicine to treat ich; you want a blank canvas so to speak. So 6 to 8 weeks of fishless cycling with all NEW filter media and FRESH (treated/ dechlorinated/ et cetera) water, in order not to possibly spread a health hazard.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

The tank will be low tech and cold water and not planted. Sorry about the lack of info : P

Do you think i could but API quick start in there just to speed bacteria growth up? I wont put any fish in there but itll make it quicker. Also ive heard ive got to put a pinch of fish food in fish tank every two days. The water will go cloudy but once they cycle is complete itll go clear.do i need a water testing kit or can i test the water at the end of the cycle? (Im a fish noob lol)


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## Henry (13 Sep 2014)

"Ich" protozoa are present in all tanks. The reason your fish are suffering with the parasite is that they are likely a) Stressed due to being in a new environment and b) being affected by high ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate levels in your water. Transfer your media without fear or transferring the Ich parasite too.

The best thing you can do when you set up your new tank is put either some fast-growing stem plants like Hygrophila polysperma, Ceratopteris thalictroides, or Elodea sp. in your tank, and/or some floating plants like duckweed and Salvinia natans. These will be easy to grow (though may get munched on), and will mop up any nitrogenous waste your filter fails to process, thus keeping your tank and fish happy and healthy.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

Thanks . Is what i said before a good thing ti dp? Is adding this api stuff ok?

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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

I assume i need to put plants in after the cycle is done

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## Henry (13 Sep 2014)

Forget the API stuff, those kind of products are a waste of money. Put the plants in as soon as you can get them. In fact, put them in the current tank as soon as you can get hold of them. If your light isn't too bright, they'll do just fine without any extra help. They're natures purifiers.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

Ok. So how often should i add fish food to the tank im gonna cycle? Do i need a water testing kit?

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## Lindy (13 Sep 2014)

Instead of adding fish food take the dirty water from the old tank and add that. It will be full of fish waste.


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## allan angus (13 Sep 2014)

hi welcome goldfish  just a quick question ...you are treating all water in your tanks with prime or some other conditioner?


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## GlassWalker (13 Sep 2014)

I recently set up a temporary fish-only tank with 39 fish around 5cm each in 94L tank. I got a spare external filter and swapped half the ceramic media in it with that from an existing cycled, running tank. Suffice to say it wasn't sufficient as ammonia started building up shortly. I moved over a small internal filter from a different running tank, again this wasn't enough to stem the buildup of ammonia. So I looked at bacteria in a bottle products. Of the ones on the market, Tetra SafeStart is widely said to be one that really works, but also it is one of the more expensive ones. Unfortunately the local store to me only sold the tiny bottles and were near their expiry date so weren't "fresh". Long story short, I found API Pond Starter Pack, which consists of a bottle of Pond Quick Start and Pond Stress Coat. I believe the pond versions are same as the normal versions but more concentrated. Best thing was, this pack was £4 in Pets At Home (in store label was £8, but website and till used £4). Worth it for the dechlorinator alone so effectively I had nothing to lose to try out Quick Start to see if that would give a boost to the filter quickly.

I got home, put in the stated dose and tested the next day. No good. Still got ammonia. After much thinking, I came across API's document where they describe their test "proving" it does work. Looking at it, I found the key difference. My tank was far more heavily stocked than theirs. Logically, I'd need a much bigger dose. No problem, since this was a pond kit, I could easily overdose proportionately in my tank. Partial success, I then saw excess nitrites accumulating. After a day, that was gone. After another day, ammonia dropped back to zero where it has stayed for a day longer, even with feeding. Note during this time I did one water change to lower the nitrites, as well as used calcium chloride to help detoxify it. I also used Interpet ammonia remover initially, then later Seachem Prime to detoxify ammonia buildup.

I couldn't say this proves or disproves the working of Quick Start since I had some cycled media in tank before its introduction. If there's a PAH you can get to easily the pond kit might be a cheap enough way to give it a go.

On a comparison of Quick Start with SafeStart, both use nitrosomonas to deal with the ammonia. They differ in nitrite munchers, with the former using nitrobacter, the latter using nitrosospira and nitrospira.


Now, that aside, the traditional route for *fishless and plantless cycling* is to add an ammonia source and wait... then test to see the ammonia being consumed, producing nitrite. Wait longer to see nitrite being consumed, and you're done. The API master test kit is popular as one of the best value test kits. About this time others may say test kits are pointless and inaccurate, but we do need to know when the ammonia and nitrite phases have gone, and accuracy isn't important. We just need to know the difference between zero ammonia and nitrite, and high levels of such. Many like to use a pure ammonia source for this, although you can use fish food and let it break down.


Vinkenoog1977, this is the first time I've heard of massive frequent water changes to cycle a tank. Got more on this method, what is the mechanism for it working?


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## ian_m (13 Sep 2014)

I've started an emergency new tank before using daily Amquel doses, which removes ammonia. Along with couple of frequent water changes fish were fine. Just takes longer to get bacteria build up in filter, that's all, maybe 6 weeks.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

Thank you for all the brillian help! Unfortunately i cant really afford a test kit, so ill have to go without for now. What i will do os add some bacteria and media from my goldie tank into the new like you guys said. Add a pinch of fish food every other day. The water should go slightly cloudy but nit smell, if it does the cycle has failed.  When the water becomes clear the cycle is complete. I will take this water to my local petshop for a test. Hopefully everything is fine and u cab add my goldfish! Please tell me if this is ok to do

Just found out i need a water tesk kit so thats the only thing missing from my method lol


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## Vinkenoog1977 (13 Sep 2014)

GlassWalker: there are several reasons for doing frequent water changes during cycling; check this simple guide: http://www.firsttankguide.net/cyclechange.php


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

So id do a 10% water change daily then

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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

I added two bamboo like plants as well




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## GlassWalker (13 Sep 2014)

Vinkenoog1977 said:


> GlassWalker: there are several reasons for doing frequent water changes during cycling; check this simple guide: http://www.firsttankguide.net/cyclechange.php



That's for a fish-in cycle, where I would agree regular changes need to be done as needed to keep the waste levels low to prevent harm to the fish. I read the question in this thread as to how to cycle a tank without fish in it, and also see it is tagged as fishless cycle.

For a fishless cycle, water changes wont be needed for livestock welfare. I have been pondering optimisations to the process of fishless cycling before, and personally believe most guides recommend far too much ammonia source. Perhaps top up to 1ppm ammonia is more than sufficient, and a carefully timed large water change during the nitrite spike will remove the need to process the excess that builds up.

As a special condition, more frequent water changes may be needed in very soft water tanks. KH is consumed by the bacteria and may run out, causing a stall to the process. Based on a chemical equation I found, I calculated to bacterially process 1ppm of ammonia will consume about 0.4 dKH, although I haven't verified this in any way yet. This only applies to bacteria, not plant consumption. I've also been made aware more recent research suggests what we call bacteria aren't bacteria after all, but that doesn't affect the process for our purposes.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

Thats a very detailed answer! I will be doing a fishless cycle, could i put a bit of filter media in the cycling aquarium so when i put the filter in the piece i took off will put bacteria on the actual filter? I am doing a nitrogen cycle in my goldie tank now to give it a head start because ive been replacing too much water each day to let the cycle happen


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## Lindy (13 Sep 2014)

That doesn't look like an aquatic plant. It will probably die and spoil your water. Floating plants would help with the fish waste and something like elodea would  be good too. Goldfish grow really big and should only be kept in big tanks. They produce a lot of waste too. You'd have a far nicer aquarium if you gave the goldfish to someone with a pond and got some small fish instead. The goldfish would be happier too.


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## Goldfish122 (13 Sep 2014)

When it gets quite big utll go in my pond

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## Vinkenoog1977 (13 Sep 2014)

Oops, my bad, was doing three things at once, and as I myself pretty much always do a with-fish cycle. Haven't lost a fish since I switched to the Seachem products (Prime and Stability).

Anways, what he said, with the ammonia and the nitrates.


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## Goldfish122 (14 Sep 2014)

Gonna buy seachem prime soon. I said earlier that goldie has ich, well its worse. Hes got loads more spost but the ones on his body you can only see from an angle


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## allan angus (14 Sep 2014)

Goldfish122 said:


> Gonna buy seachem prime soon. I said earlier that goldie has ich, well its worse. Hes got loads more spost but the ones on his body you can only see from an angle


if hes in tap water and your not decolrinating it hes in big trouble and the tank will not cycle water changes will make it worse since you will keep adding cloromines


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## Goldfish122 (14 Sep 2014)

It is dechlorinated water i use tetra aquasafe


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## allan angus (14 Sep 2014)

Goldfish122 said:


> It is dechlorinated water i use tetra aquasafe


ok cool


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## Goldfish122 (14 Sep 2014)

Is it bad if he gots more white spots


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## allan angus (14 Sep 2014)

yes sound like ick theirs a good guide to identification and treatment on    cichlid forum.com give it a read and follow advice. ich often presents during cycling so it may well be
'understanding and treating ich and white spot'


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## GlassWalker (14 Sep 2014)

I see from the 1st post that the ich is being treated, can I ask how? Thankfully I haven't had any cases in a long time, but when I did, I found commercially available treatments to work pretty fast at clearing it. Also the goldfish is in effect going through a fish in cycle right? Still doing big daily water changes?


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## Andy Thurston (14 Sep 2014)

Go get some mulm from a lfs or friend with a tank and put it in your filter. Carry on with the large daily water changes and hope your fish survive the ich


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## Goldfish122 (14 Sep 2014)

Im treating it with rock salt. Im going to ask my friend if i can borrow some of his filter but he has tropucal fish, is this ok for my goldfish

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## ian_m (14 Sep 2014)

Goldfish122 said:


> Im treating it with rock salt.


Bit of an old wives tale, salt. Just buy the medication, clears ich in a day or two.


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## Goldfish122 (14 Sep 2014)

Whats a good type?

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## ian_m (14 Sep 2014)

I've used Protozin before, works well.


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## GlassWalker (14 Sep 2014)

I've used eSHa Exit and Interpet Anti-White Spot before, both worked for me.


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## Goldfish122 (15 Sep 2014)

How woukd i get the parasites out of the filtrr and gravel if they fall off thr fish

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## GlassWalker (15 Sep 2014)

The white spot medications usually target the white spot at one phase of their lifecycle. Apply according to instructions and it will kill any white spot in that part of the cycle. It should remain in water long enough such that all the white spot will cycle through and be eliminated. The complication here is if you also need to do big water changes due to not having a cycled filter. Thus you may need a top up dose to remove any taken out by the change water.


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## dw1305 (15 Sep 2014)

Hi all, 





GlassWalker said:


> eSHa Exit


 I've used eSHa Exit successfully as well.

cheers Darrel


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## ian_m (15 Sep 2014)

This is JBL's equivalent anti-ich, so you can read the instructions.
http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/5589/jbl-punktol-plus-125#info

My ich appeared when my when my brother came to visit and thoughtfully (not !!!) bought some fish and plants for me. Got rid of snails on plants with weak bleach, but fish came with ich as I found out a couple of days later.


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## Andy Thurston (15 Sep 2014)

I think most of these work pretty well
I've used the interpet one and protozin on my clown loach neither worked first time but interpet did when i added an extra dose


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