# George's TMC Signature



## George Farmer

Hi all,

I'm really excited to be aquascaping again for the first time since May last year.

I have a TMC Signature 60x45x30cm (clear silicone) with gloss white cabinet. I need to cut out a half moon in the cabinet side for the filter hoses because unfortunately they're not pre-cut. I did strongly suggest to TMC that this should be an option for the future.

I haven't even unboxed it yet, but will provide full updates as appropriate.  I can say that I'm not rushing this one. 

I'm still undecided about the aquascape design, but it will very likely be heavily influenced by some bloke called Takashi Amano. You may have heard of him.  I'm really looking forward to experimenting with different hardscape materials and layout ideas before I even think of adding water.

If there's any specific requests for photos i.e. close-ups of the silicone work etc., then I'd be happy to oblige.

Cheers,
George


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## Gary Nelson

I've been looking forward to you starting up again George, and now here we are - it seems along time since we have seen you in action on here  ... I will be watching out for what you are going to create and looking forward to seeing some photos. 
I'm sure will be a show stopper!


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## Alastair

Welcome back George, looking forward to what will be another great scape from you  




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## Arana

Watching closely George, great to have you back and getting your hands wet again


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## sanj

Hello, welcome back.

Everytime I heard about you in Afghanistan, I always remember by Grandad telling me about when he was stationed in Kandahar in the British Indian army...

Anyway, I have a TMC optiwhite too, but the black silicone 60x45x45. I wanted the largest because it was to be for a colony of Blue-eyes (P.gertrudae "Aru II") and Pygmae rainbows.

Not having side access, isnt the end of the world, but they would have been better off doing so. I think though this is not so much a specialist tank for planted aquarium, but also for Reef systems where the side access is probably not so desirable. Perhaps they could have offered two choices of cabinet, but then maybe the costs would have risen.

Tank - £150
Base -£130

Not bad for whats out there. Still I half kicked myself when I saw the Portuguese NA aquariums AFTER I bought the TMC Signature.

Still looking forward to see what you come up with.


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

I've just finished assembling and modifying the cabinet. As well as cutting a half-moon, I also used white silicone sealant around the joins to hopefully prevent any water ingress and consequential warping that's really common with laminated chipboard cabinets.

I've also installed the lighting - 2 x TMC GroBeam 1500 Ultima (6500K), an upgrade from my original 1000ND units.

Pics to follow soon.


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## B7fec

Hi George, good to see you back. Cant wait to see what you come up with here.


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## George Farmer

Thanks, Ben. 

You can see the cut-out here...






And the lighting... Apparently 34% brighter than the 1000ND so I won't be using it on 100% for a good while. PAR readings should be interesting.





I'll probably start playing with hardscape designs tomorrow. Tempted to go Iwagumi but also have some lovely wood to try out. Plant choice is a long way off yet.


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## nayr88

Hi George good to have you back.
These TMC tanks look the part, I see on on H2o aquatics in Brentwood they was doing really good deals on tank stand sump and lighting.

Will have to look at the NA stuff before I make a final choice though. 

Any rough ideas of scape yet?


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## Brian Murphy

Hi George, finally get to see a master at work from the start  Only joined recently so haven't had the chance to see one from the start in real time.  Spent many an evening into the wee hours reading the journals etc so this will be fun and very informative I'm sure.


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## WetElbow

Ohh, very smart looking setup.  Iwagumi gets my vote.


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## jack-rythm

Live the cabinet Mate, looks very stylish  

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## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

It does feel great to get my aquascaping head on once more. Because this isn't a commissioned jobby I am not bound by any time limits etc. so I'm determined to take it slowly and enjoy the journey, and of course share it on here.

I'm really impressed with the quality of this tank. It's the highest quality aquarium I've owned so far, and the cabinet is nice too. I think TMC have done well here, for sure.

Ryan - thanks mate. I haven't seen the NA range in the flesh yet but from the reports and photos I've seen it looks great! I'm remaining totally flexible regarding the scape. I'll be sure to share my various hardscape incarnations and I look forward to hearing what you guys think... 

Murf - thank you and a belated welcome to UKAPS! Please feel free to ask any questions on this journal. Here to help! 

WetElbow - Cool username! Iwagumi is certainly a potential. Stay tuned!


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## sanj

George,

are you hanging your lights from the ceiling?


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## Ian Holdich

Tank looks cool. Are these the new TMC tiles? I have seen the new grobeams and they also claim that they are 34% brighter, the led appears to be the same wattage though, so it'll be interesting to see the par readings against the old ones.


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## George Farmer

sanj said:


> George,
> 
> are you hanging your lights from the ceiling?


Yes, Sanjeev. I think it contributes nicely to the overall equipment minimising. Why do you ask?



Ian Holdich said:


> Tank looks cool. Are these the new TMC tiles? I have seen the new grobeams and they also claim that they are 34% brighter, the led appears to be the same wattage though, so it'll be interesting to see the par readings against the old ones.


Yes mate. These are the brand new GroBeam 1500 Ultima tiles. 

First impressions are great, they seem much brighter and seem to have a crisper colour cast (more like the 9000K 1500 XG). I'm looking forward to seeing how they get on in practice. I'll check the PAR before deciding what power and height to run them, which will also be influenced by my plant choices. 

The Holy Grail for LED is one that gives great red and green colour rendition without having to use multiple colour LED. T5 is still the lighting Daddy for colour rendition and flexibility.


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## Arana

nayr88 said:


> Hi George good to have you back.
> These TMC tanks look the part, I see on on H2o aquatics in Brentwood they was doing really good deals on tank stand sump and lighting.
> 
> Will have to look at the NA stuff before I make a final choice though.


 
Had a good look at the the NA range at Freshwatershrimp today, outstanding! i think you will have a tough choice on your hands


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## Stu Worrall

Nice tmc there george and good to see you back in the game  looking forward to the hardscape


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## sanj

George Farmer said:


> Yes, Sanjeev. I think it contributes nicely to the overall equipment minimising. Why do you ask?


 
I have a maxspect over mine, but I dont think the overtank stand gives sufficient distance for more even spread. I am not sure about what you need to do to hang from the ceiling safely. I might attempt a frame, but the tank is in place so it will have to be free standing.

I certainly do agree, your way of lighting does lend to a more minimalist look.


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## Iain Sutherland

Hey george, good to see you back. The signature does look the part and the lighting set up really finishes it off.
Just bought a 1000nd tile for a new project but thinking of another use for it now seeing this.  Do you think 2 x 1000ND would be enough for a 90P or would it need 3??

Look forward to seeing what you do with this.


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## George Farmer

easerthegeezer said:


> Hey george, good to see you back. The signature does look the part and the lighting set up really finishes it off.
> Just bought a 1000nd tile for a new project but thinking of another use for it now seeing this.  Do you think 2 x 1000ND would be enough for a 90P or would it need 3??
> 
> Look forward to seeing what you do with this.


Thanks, Iain. 

I would say 2 x 1000ND may be ok for a 90x45x45cm. 

As we know, most plants aren't actually that demanding of light, especially if CO2, other nutrients and their distribution are ideal. You may struggle with some of the more tricky carpeting species but with clever aquascape design I'm sure you will be fine.

I hope that helps.


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## Piece-of-fish

George Farmer said:


> T5 is still the lighting Daddy for colour rendition and flexibility.


 
Amen................... Hate the LEDs  unless maybe they are 100% customasible for colour.
Looking forward to the scape George.


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## Mark Evans

Hi George,

Looking forward to yet another GF creation. A nice, clean, and clinical approach.

I do echo sanj's remark...the NA range is quite something.

Regards,

Mark


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## George Farmer

Thanks mate.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

I've just done a quick comparison between the 1000ND and 1500 Ultima and the difference is quite significant. You can clearly see the Ultima is brighter and the colour rendition also appear different. Next week I'll try to get hold of a PAR meter too.

Using my DSLR in manual mode I've made all the settings identical (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, white balance) so this is a relatively accurate comparison.

*1000ND*





*1500 Ultima*


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## Arana

Wow what a difference, the 1500's are a lot lot brighter


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## Danny

Holy **** how bright are those ultima's lol Perfect for a marine tank George


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## Ian Holdich

Woah, they are brighter! They create a lot of spill though. I personally found this a problem when I got the grobeams, you get use to it though. Might have to invest in the new grobeams....


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## Gary Nelson

That's a big difference! Interesting stuff.


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## George Farmer

Danny said:


> Holy **** how bright are those ultima's lol Perfect for a marine tank George


I'd like to have another go at marine at some point. I really enjoyed the planted marine tank I did a couple of years ago. A full-on reef isn't really my taste though. These lights would be ideal for macroalgae I reckon...



Ian Holdich said:


> Woah, they are brighter! They create a lot of spill though. I personally found this a problem when I got the grobeams, you get use to it though. Might have to invest in the new grobeams....


Yeah, the light spill is considerable, but it's in the kitchen so isn't as distracting as having it in a sitting room etc.

Thanks guys.


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## bape

George Farmer said:


> Thanks, Ben.
> 
> You can see the cut-out here...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the lighting... Apparently 34% brighter than the 1000ND so I won't be using it on 100% for a good while. PAR readings should be interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably start playing with hardscape designs tomorrow. Tempted to go Iwagumi but also have some lovely wood to try out. Plant choice is a long way off yet.



Hardware looking very nice indeed. Could you tell us how you cut out the half moon?


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## George Farmer

bape said:


> Hardware looking very nice indeed. Could you tell us how you cut out the half moon?


Thanks, bape. 

To cut out the half-moon I simply drew the outline of shape and size I wanted, drilled two holes in each corner and used a jigsaw following the outline between the two drilled holes. I hope that makes sense.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

I managed to get a couple of hours spare today to have a play with some Mini Landscape Rocks aka Seiryu Stone.

I'm not particularly happy with any of the layouts but I thought I'd share anyway and see what you guys think.  

I really need to get some new bigger pieces of this classic hardscape material. I've only a couple of largish pieces and I've used them in a few Iwagumi layouts now; it's hard to come up with something very original. Some of you will probably recognise a few stones from my last iwagumi - Project Scree.

The substrate here is TMC NutraSoil (mix of black and brown from an old set-up) and is ideal for dry 'scaping. Final substrate choice is a long way off, as I may use some open sand/gravel etc.

Here's my youngest daughter helping out her Dad with the rocks -




*1*




*2*




*3*




*4*




*5*




I'd be very interested to hear any comments from you guys.

Tomorrow I'll probably have another play with these stones and if I get time try out some different rock types i.e. Petrified Wood.


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## Ady34

Great to see you back George and can't wait to watch this journal unfold.
Love the white cabinet and have to say the tmc tank looks the part.
For me scapes 3 and 4 have the best feel. 3 is my fave but would be more challenging to plant with the rocks clustered. I know what you mean regarding the rock choices, the rock you've used centrally in the top 3 scapes is ideal for its position but does make you think of project scree, it was such a distinctive scape. Funnily number 5 reminds me of a smaller version of a scape Mark Evans did a while ago with the squarish upright rocks.
Anyhow I bet it feels great to be back mucking around with rocks and soil, looking forward to more potential hardscapes....you'll hide it with plants anyway so just chuck it all in 
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## Danny

I like four but for me I would try with the center rock placed in the back right corner leaving the typical path look in the center.

5 is almost there,strange though the rear left and large front right draw my attention.... perhaps both a bit darker than the others?

I'm no pro but that is what I think lol


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## Alastair

3 and 4 does it for me George. I liked them out of all the rest. 


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## Aron_Dip

Welcome home mucka! For me I think 5 but 4 and 3 are nice too mate 


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## danmullan

The TMC set-up looks really nice, I heard they were made in Portugal same as the Natural Aquario stuff. I was interested to see you decided to go with LED's again. Did you choose them over T5's or are you trying them out for TMC?

I think the third scape looks the most natural, although it looks as if there'd be no room for planting amongst the hardscape. It also looks very similar to Project-Scree, as you said it's hard to create an original looking layout using hardscape materials from a previous set-up. Still looks different to a lot of tanks on here at the moment.

Looking forward to more updates.


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## Iain Sutherland

All strong layouts but 4 writes its own plant list for me so would be my fave , i would move one of the left 2 long stones so they arent so parallel though.
Look forward to seeing some green under those 1500's.


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## jack-rythm

No.1 for me  

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## George Farmer

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the feedback. 

I think the fact that there's no clear "favourite" here speaks volumes in terms of there not being a very strong layout.

I have decided I'm definitely not happy with any of the these so will have another play later. I'm actually having really good fun taking my time. #delayedgratification

Hopefully I'll post some more layouts later today.


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## George Farmer

By the way, does anyone know the secret behind succeeding with Ultricularia graminifolia? Lol


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## LondonDragon

George Farmer said:


> By the way, does anyone know the secret behind succeeding with Ultricularia graminifolia? Lol


Good luck with that one  but RO might be the answer!


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## flygja

Hey George, welcome back! Can't wait to see your attention to detail and clear and crisp descriptions back in action. If that even makes sense.

I think 1, 2 and 3 look like something you've done before. So between 4 and 5 I'd go with 5


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## George Farmer

Thanks, guys. 

I think I was a bit more inspired yesterday.  Here's my Top 3 from about 20 or so layouts.  I have a clear favourite this time. I'd be interested to see if any of you guys too...

*6*





*7*




*8*


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## PPage666

i like 8


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## LondonDragon

PPage666 said:


> i like 8


Gets my vote too!


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## Iain Sutherland

8  , 6 reminds me of scree.


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## tim

8 for me


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## TOO

For me it depends a bit on what you want with it. In terms of rock structure my favorite is 6, but the drawback might be that it leaves rather little room for planting. Having lately become fascinated with Bucephalandra I can't help thinking that no. 6 would look awesome with some of the small Buce (e.g. "Kapit") planted in the crevices. Would make for an alternative Iwagumi scape: it is on my list of projects for sure .

Thomas


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## xtevo

easerthegeezer said:


> 8  , 6 reminds me of scree.


+1 Same answer here.


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## Dorian

6.


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## Ady34

6 is an awesome rock layout! My favourite hardscape of the three.
I can see that with a nice simple planting scheme to compliment the intricate hardscape....a tight foreground carpet and a bush of stems/grass right rear flowing directionally in line with the rock. On the contrary 7 is simple and could be very striking with more detailed planting. 
In fairness each of the above could look great with the right plants, 8 has a great sense of scale and could be mistaken for a huge mountain range, it depends on what you are looking for or to represent.
I bet you have already visualised a planting scheme for your favourite!
That's the thing for me, you need to visualise a plant scheme that you like too to compliment the scape, it makes it.
Cheerio,
Ady.


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## sanj

I like no.6, but it reminds me too much of one you have already done. That one also happened to be my favourate of yours (when it was just with elocharis). I dont really know what you would gain from that. So if it were me, I would think it would be better to go with one of the mountain scapes and that is probably 8.


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## Danny

Never seen scree or any of your other work but 6 is just WOW!!


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## George Farmer

Great feedback guys - thanks very much. 

For the record no. 6 is my clear favourite. It is indeed similar to "Scree" though....

...But is that necessarily a bad thing? "Scree" was arguably my strongest aquascape yet, and certainly the most successful in terms of critical acclaim. It's certainly one that provided me with the most pleasure in terms of viewing, maintaining, and receiving nice feedback. 

I guess the question is - do I want to stay quite safe, create something I know that will look pretty effective, yet not really stretching me in terms of creativity.

Or do I take more of a risk and go for something completely different?

Ady's and Tom's very well articulated comments about planting is very relevant, and it's really the plants that will make or break an aquascape - even with the best hardscape in the world.

And so the reason I'm not deciding on planting yet is so I can remain totally open-minded with regards the hardscape - the backbone of the layout.

Anyway, I've lots more hardscaping to do yet, using different materials. Then I can make a more well-informed decision, no doubt with help and influence from you guys too. 

Thanks again,
George

edit - a couple of posts have been added whilst I was writing this. Thanks, sanj.


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## LondonDragon

Danny said:


> Never seen scree or any of your other work but 6 is just WOW!!


have a look here: [IWAGUMI] Scree Evolution - The End | UK Aquatic Plant Society

And here: Aquascapes 2003 to present | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## andyh

8 for me - glad to see you had another go.


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## andyh

MORE RISK!! 

Not well articulated LOL


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## George Farmer

andyh said:


> MORE RISK!!
> 
> Not well articulated LOL


I preferred your original post that you deleted...  lol


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## andyh

I do enjoy your scapes as there is always so much opinion, and you throw yourself open to the opinions of the masses.

I suppose what i would like to see is some sort of complex rockwork, with layers and some more height. You have a great eye for natural looking rockwork and i beleive its something you could achieve


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## andyh

George Farmer said:


> I preferred your original post that you deleted...  lol


you weren't meant to see that as i had accidently not read the latter comments............... But glad you got my point


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## George Farmer

andyh said:


> I do enjoy your scapes as there is always so much opinion, and you throw yourself open to the opinions of the masses.
> 
> I suppose what i would like to see is some sort of complex rockwork, with layers and some more height. You have a great eye for natural looking rockwork and i beleive its something you could achieve


Thanks mate.  

Well, I am doing this 'scape for me, but it's really nice to have the opportunity to share the journey, and if others can learn something from it with me... well, I think that's what UKAPS is all about. Sharing the passion.


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## Danny

Well I for one will defo be using your scapes for inspiration, what you do so seemingly easily would take me weeks of re scaping and I would still not get to one of those you posted pmsl


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## xtevo

In my opinion if You want new challenge, You have to step out your comfort zone, that means iwagumi for You. I would be delighted to see a ryuboku or a dutch scape made by You.


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## Arana

The bad news mate is as one of the few high profile aquascapers in the country and with so many people looking up to you and to you for inspiraton that maybe it's obligatory that you push a few boundries and take a few chances... No Pressure then!


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## Ian Holdich

I actually like  layout 8, and as said the plants make the scape IMO, I mean you could do loads of different scapes with that layout. I wouldn't really compare any of those with scree, apart from maybe the first on the other page. The only thing that is making people think of scree, is the rocks IMO, any layout done with those will look a little like scree. Until you get it planted you can't really compare IMO. I'm not sure you can say you have a comfort zone...again because scree became quite famous, you will automatically be linked with iwagumi. Anyone that thinks that should have a peak at your back catalogue.

Keep the pics coming mate!


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## Stu Worrall

8 for me 

re the UG tis an odd beast. some say it doesnt like ferts so does better in sand.  Ive just used some 1-2 grow from the same pot in my two tanks.  

90cm was a new tank with new amazonia so an ammonia spike to go through and no bacteria in the tank = dead 

nano mini-m was an existing scape with amazonia and bacteria = still alive and growing 


tropica ferts and same water in both tanks and both had easycarbo (but I believe it doesnt like this) so for me i'd go with it not liking ammonia or a tank with no bacteria or both!  Maybe on a new tank it would be best to go with gravel and a seeded filter and see how it goes?

Im going to try it again in the 90cm now its a bit more established and see how it goes.


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## dw1305

Hi all,


stuworrall said:


> the UG tis an odd beast. some say it doesnt like ferts so does better in sand


 I've only ever grown it as an emersed plant in the same conditions you would use for most carnivorous plants, acid, nutrient poor growing conditions and no fertilisers. I'd try something like peat fibres or sphagnum as a rooting medium to get it going. <utricularia graminifolia | UK Aquatic Plant Society>





This link is interesting as well <Utricularia graminifolia pictures - Carnivorous Plants in Cultivation - Carnivorous Plants UK>

cheers Darrel


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## George Farmer

Cheers, guys. Some really welcome and insightful comments - you know who you are. 

More layouts tomorrow! Yay.


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## Garuf

Number 8 for me depending on the planting, UG would work really well and I'm sure you'll have better luck with it since you're a planting wizard.

Glad to see you're back safe and sound btw, nice to see your tanks from the beginning again too!


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## viktorlantos

Sweet setup George! The new light looks cool. I found even the double 1000nd powerful above a tank size like this, so this start to be challenging with this much power. Mine started to flash after a while so replaced them after 1 year, but they did the job well before. Looking forward to the new ideas what you came up with.

It's good to have you back mate!


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## viktorlantos

I would skip mini landscape this time. Like others said project s looks a bit similar which isn't bad but time to try other challenges. I loved that scape by the way.

So you mentioned petrified wood which isn't harden the water and if you use soft water i may would try some mosses and other species which shows up better in this condition.

UG is good too we also giving new chances to be successful with it. Now after some dry start in Aquasoil Africana, No carbo, no nitrate heavy fert, co2 needed a bit more probably, low flow lower light, so this might be not your partner with these led cannons  but works well for us in a default eheim aquastyle nano tank.

Would love to see some moss scape from you George.


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## flygja

Take some risks George! I'd say you have mastered the "one-big-slanting-rock" iwagumi, time to try something else. Or keep a similar iwagumi but experiment with plants. Glosso in front and HC at the back for an illusion of depth? Or Riccia in front and mini Riccia behind.


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## darren636

Thinking different rock. These hardscapes make me feel that I have liked them already...


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## ghostsword

easerthegeezer said:


> 8  , 6 reminds me of scree.


 
I was going to say the same..  6 is like scree..


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the input, guys. It's really great to here your views. 

So, as promised, and as suggested by many of you; here's some layouts using a different hardscape material - Petrified Wood.

For your interest I've had these rocks for years, but have never used them for an Iwagumi in my own tank.

These pieces were hand-selected direct from Unipac, and they've been used in various exhibitions, trade shows etc. I think the textures are amazing and can't believe I've waited until now to use it properly for myself. 

I'm also beginning to think about plant choice now, if indeed I go for an Iwagumi.

HC and/or glosso around the more open areas, with various grasses between the rocks. Possibly mosses around the rocks too. I'd like to blend a lot of the planting for a more naturalistic style.

As always, I'd love to hear what you all think. 

*11*




*12*




*13*




*14*


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## tim

I really like the textures of this rock 14 flows perfectly for me inspirational George


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## LondonDragon

Torn between 12 and 14!! love the texture of the rocks! You should have used them before or you can send them to me!


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## webworm

Going to have to go with 14.
Nice to see that after time away, the faces are the same but the inspiration still excels.


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## Ady34

Really nice rock! Id go for this rather than the seiryu just for a change  
I know you had plans to swap the substrate, and youll most likely be covering it all with your carpet, but it works well with the rock so maybe no need to start over?
12 gets my vote, really nice balance.....maybe too nice, in which case 14 is more rustic.
Love the idea of moss on this rock too....prehistoric.
Cheerio.


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## iPlantTanks

Gotta be 12 for me I thought it wasost pleasing to the eye, tonne he following this project 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## George Farmer

Cheers, guys. Really loving the feedback. 

Ady - Yes mate. I'm definitely preferring this over the Seiryu Stone (Mini Landscape Rock).

I can't believe I've never studied it closely before but the textures are fantastic. I will get some close-ups and wide-angles to hopefully give you all a fuller appreciation.

And I've just come with another minor-tweaked layout, so will post that too, of course! 

Thanks again.


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## Martin Osmond

That rock looks really nice, anyone have any ideas where to buy it from as i can't find it anywhere online?


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## iPlantTanks

Aquaessentials sell it but the stuff I got was more blue/grey rather than brown. Still very nice features though

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## Stu Worrall

14


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## Danny

14 for me too.


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## viktorlantos

One more vote for these rocks. Not a new hardcape material, but looks refreshing after dozes of mini landscape. Love it! I can live with all of them since it looks so good!


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## nayr88

I'd say 12
14 reminds me of your previous iwagumi type lay out, obviously not a bad thing. 
I always picture scared tree would I read petrified wood! Haha


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## Arana

14 definately for me mate


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## WetElbow

12.


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## Arana

George how do you add the tags shown at the bottom of the thread?


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## LondonDragon

Arana said:


> George how do you add the tags shown at the bottom of the thread?


You can edit on threads that you start yourself, you just click in (Edit Tags) at the bottom and type your own.


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## Arana

Cheers Paulo


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## xtevo

14


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## Aron_Dip

I still like #6 lol ... But 12 is also another great look


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## Iain Sutherland

against popular opinion i like 11, the left and right rocks are a little bolder.
The unipack petrified wood is lovely, there was a load at AE which i now wish i had made the effort to carry it back to Cambridge.  Quite different to the usual orange square bits you see in most LFS.

Very quick question... what function do the tags serve?  just help the search engine..?


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## Dorian

12 for me


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## greenink

12 for me. Would be good to know what camera / lens / settings you have for these shots - so crisp. Am really struggling to get anything that sharp even with a Canon 60D and half decent lens (50mm, 1.4).


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## ghostsword

Number 12.. great rocks.. 

Number 14 cuts on the main rock is distracting..


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## Vito

Hi George, I like number 2 but with the middle stone in the foreground from number 1 in the identical angle but slightly more buried, if that make sense, number 8 is nice too but maybe would like better with the main peak of stones slightly off center.
Good luck choosing


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## George Farmer

Thanks again, guys. A big update coming very soon... 



mikeappleby said:


> 12 for me. Would be good to know what camera / lens / settings you have for these shots - so crisp. Am really struggling to get anything that sharp even with a Canon 60D and half decent lens (50mm, 1.4).


Hi Mike,

I have a 50D and I'm using a 24-105L for these. Tank lighting, f/8, 1/50 sec, ISO 400, handheld (I'm being lazy at this stage). These are cropped, re-sized and sharpened (unsharp mask) a little in CS3.

Your 50mm should be sharper than my 24-105 so I'm guessing the 'crispness' you're seeing here is due to the unsharp mask.



ghostsword said:


> Number 12.. great rocks..
> 
> Number 14 cuts on the main rock is distracting..


Yeah, I know what you mean mate, but I quite like the strong features myself.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi guys,

So over the last few days I've probably set up more rock layouts than I've done since I started aquascaping 10 years ago!

What's really interesting is that just the smallest of tweaks to the main stone make such a huge impact on the whole layout and balance.

And then there's the lighting. 

By just moving the lights an inch forward or backward; the shadows cast also have a big impact.

And then it will look different again when underwater.

And then there's the planting to consider.

So basically I'm trying hard not to get too fixated on the 'perfect' layout, because what's 'perfect' now, will very likely look quite different later on.

Anyway, enough rambling.

Here's some different shots to hopefully give you a further appreciation of the rocks. They should look even better once wet, but that's not going to happen for a while yet - I'm having far too much fun!


close1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


close2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


close3 by George Farmer, on Flickr


insitu1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Thanks so much for all the feedback so far.


----------



## hydrophyte

Cracking good George!


----------



## George Farmer

hydrophyte said:


> Cracking good George!


Thank you, Mr Biggs!


----------



## Marco Aukes

Looks great George! I see your "final" layout got some adjustments compared to the 11 up to 14 tries. In my opinion for the better, particulary since you are now using the best looking sides of the rocks in the most harmonious layout. The rock in the backright looks the best in this way, the only small issue I have with that is that because of it's beauty it tends to draw a bit too much of attention now. But than again, with your planting skills you might be able to adjust this in the total picture.


----------



## George Farmer

Marco Aukes said:


> Looks great George! I see your "final" layout got some adjustments compared to the 11 up to 14 tries. In my opinion for the better, particulary since you are now using the best looking sides of the rocks in the most harmonious layout. The rock in the backright looks the best in this way, the only small issue I have with that is that because of it's beauty it tends to draw a bit too much of attention now. But than again, with your planting skills you might be able to adjust this in the total picture.


Very observant, Marco. I am impressed! 

I consider the back right stone an essential component to add some tension to the overall layout. Like you say, planting will soften it somewhat.


----------



## Marco Aukes

George Farmer said:


> Very observant, Marco.


 
Hey, one has to be if you want to learn from the ones who know how to do it


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

This is my favourite layout so far. I think it's the strongest and most balanced.  As always, your feedback most welcome! 


iwagumi16 by George Farmer, on Flickr

It's tough to get an appreciation of the overall depth when viewing FTS-only, so here a few more angles, including an overhead. You can see there's some nice areas between the stones for taller grasses.


16 left by George Farmer, on Flickr


16 right by George Farmer, on Flickr


overhead by George Farmer, on Flickr

Next I bring out the Manzanita Wood!


----------



## Danny

I am in love with that scape lol And now you mention manzi..........Cant wait!!!

With the other angles showing the depth you can really see the potential for plants, once planted with the right things it will really show up the depth of the tank. I have seen some really small nano's that planted with the right things look 10x there size so can only imagine what this is going to turn out like!


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## Danny

What filtration are you planning on using?


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## LondonDragon

You should rename this thread to dry hardscaping and then start another journal when you finally choose one to go with! Loving the thread though  latest scape looking very strong!


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## Danny

This thread is more like a masterclass in scaping lol


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## TOO

I know this might be pedantic, but I think you are asking for it 

The layout is very nice, but perhaps it lacks a little "tension" (as seen from the frontal view). The problem (if you could call it that) is that the three main stones are too symmetric in their relationships. Stones 2 and 3 (those in front of the large stone) are rather similar in size and placed in nearly identical ways in relation to the background stone. In this way the three stones almost form a pyramid, with only the small right side stone creating some deviation. On the other hand, these quarrels might be purely theoretical, because I agree that the layout "works". And perhaps the lack of tension I mention is precisely what makes it do so. Solutions? Perhaps replacing stone 2 or 3 with one that is slightly smaller or differently shaped; or adjust distances and height a little bit. At this stage half an inch can make a big difference (in planning my current scape I played around with rocks a bit before settling on the present layout; drove me absolutely nuts ).

Thomas


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## Arana

Looks great mate and the close up shots really show of the beauty of the rocks, great job, really looking forward to seeing it wet now


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## Garuf

Don't touch a thing, plant it.





One thing, I hope you use moss. 

ps. ignore the typos and crudeness, it's late, I've not touched PS in a while.


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## George Farmer

Thank you, all. 

Thomas - thank you so much for the feedback. Your observation is correct regarding the lack of tension and I have made a couple of changes to experiment with this. I'll post a pic later and look forward to hearing what you think about the change.

Gareth - great to see you posting on UKAPS again mate, and thanks for putting the effort into this particular post. I am honoured! 



Danny said:


> What filtration are you planning on using?


Fluval G3. I love these filters - so easy to maintain. I'll also be using gUSH glassware inlet/outlet (12mm), inline heater and inline CO2.

Once I've decided on the final hardscape layout I'll create a thorough post on installing the hardware.

I'm a bit OCD when it comes to a tidy cabinet, so I'm looking forward to making it look as neat as possible. 

Today I'm hoping to come up with a couple of decent Manzanita Wood layouts, possibly in combination with some ADA Yamaya Stone. 

I'll be sure to keep you all updated, of course!


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## jack-rythm

George what rock is that? 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## George Farmer

jack-rythm said:


> George what rock is that?


Hi Jack, it's Petrified Wood, supplied by Unipac.

I believe UKAPS Sponsors, Aqua Essentials and The Green Machine sell it.

For the record the Mini Landscape Rock used earlier in this thread was supplied by Aqua Essentials back in 2007 when I set up an Iwagumi for then PFK Technical Writer, Jeremy Gay (now Editor). I've lost count of the aquascapes I've used that batch in! 

Image courtesy of Practical Fishkeeping


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## Gill

Great to have you back George, the wood looks great. And that is a stunning tank, we were going have 2 for the shop, don't know how far negotiations have got with the reps.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

Thomas and Gareth got me thinking about 'tension' and focal points, so with that in mind here's the latest layout.

You may be able to tell I've moved the main stone to the left a little, and the left stone has come forward and is reversed, creating the 'tension'.

As always, I'd love to hear what you all think. 


iwagumi17 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## Gary Nelson

Love it George!!! do you have any plants in mind for this yet? The layout looks so natural already, definitely going to be a show stopper! 
I'm probably 3steps ahead but have you decided what sort of co2 diffuser you will be using on this size tank?


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## George Farmer

Gary Nelson said:


> Love it George!!! do you have any plants in mind for this yet? The layout looks so natural already, definitely going to be a show stopper!
> I'm probably 3steps ahead but have you decided what sort of co2 diffuser you will be using on this size tank?


Thanks, Gary. 

I'll be using inline CO2 (Up Aqua), probably into the filter inlet to prevent visible CO2 bubbles in the water column. Also using inline heating. I can't stand equipment on view if I can help it, especially in a minimalist aquascape. I have a gUSH drop checker that hooks onto the outside of the tank too, which is pretty cool.

And so I've definitely decided I like these rocks, so it's time to put them away and play with some wood! I can always replicate any of the layouts you can see fairly easily using the photos.

Cheers,
George


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## JEK

Great to see you back in business, George! The layout with petrified wood looks fabulous. I think it will be a real stunner planted with UG and moss on the rocks. Iwagumis can look a bit sterile sometimes, but with mossy rocks I think you could achieve a more organic and wild atmosphere.

I'm also looking forward to see it with manzanita. The tank dimensions are perfect for a dramatic ryoboku


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## sanj

I think so...

It is more dramatic. Feels like that is more the path to take.


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## Ady34

Don't put the rock away, the petrified wood would look great with manzanita.....


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## Mark Evans

George! I like them all. Are you pushing boundaries?...No. Do you want to push boundaries?....probably not on your return from duty.

Break your self in. Add to your already prolific library of scapes. Improve on things that you might have missed on similar layouts.

It's not all about setting out to re-write the rule book, or trying to conjure up a new way of scaping. Most things have been done by Amano.

Improve on what you already know.


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## ghostsword

I think that previous hardscape looked better... this one looks odd.. the space in the middle, the path is just odd.  sorry..


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## Deano3

will be watching this journal as very interested how it goes and love them stones, great work so far   i have lots to learn from you so keep us informed

Dean


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## TOO

George: This is much more dynamic in my eyes. Only worry is that you are creating a "dead" spot with the far left stone, which casts too much of a shadow. Perhaps it is a little too close to the front glass.

Thomas


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## viktorlantos

I am sorry to say that, but i am not in love with that front left stone. Too big, somehow break the balance, however just like with most hardscape i can imagine this with healthy plants and will love the result. I liked better your earlier options, but i do look forward to the wood ideas. Good to see you are not stick to one thing. I would not like to force my ideas, i may would see this stone or the wood in your next scape, to give something else than we've seen before.

But i do enjoy the variations


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## Ady34

12 or 14 are still my faves.
Like Mark said, this ones for you, no need to earn its keep, just do something your happy with.....the maintenance etc on scree you've said was most enjoyable for you, so it stands to reason with no constraints you'd go for something that suits your needs, you've earned it!


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## danmullan

Ady34 said:


> 12 or 14 are still my faves.
> Like Mark said, this ones for you, no need to earn its keep, just do something your happy with.....the maintenance etc on scree you've said was most enjoyable for you, so it stands to reason with no constraints you'd go for something that suits your needs, you've earned it!


 
Second that.

I think the latest hardscape layout is really good, can't help but think it doesn't create as much depth as the ones before though due to the large stone front left. But that's without plants.


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## John Starkey

This is my opinion through a photographers eye,the scape you had before was a nicer composition,this one to me is more spread around,the gaps are too wide me thinks,my eye is always drawn straight to the stone on the left,which could detract from the rest of the scape once grown in,BUT having said all that planting and type of plants used can make all the difference and give a different look again,it,s nice for us to all have an opinion but at the end of the day it only you who can decide what you want yourself and visitors to see,I'm sure with the amount of stunning work you have done over last 12 years and experience you have gained you will come up with a another winner,
John.


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## George Farmer

Hi guys,

Thanks again all for the thought-provoking feedback. It's really interesting to hear the various opinions. Although I have my own perspective, I think it's a valuable exercise to open up the lines of communication with fellow aquascapers. One of the greatest things about aquascaping is that we never know it all and there's always so much more to learn, from our own experiences and others. 

In other news I've been playing with some Manzanita Wood and I have to say I pretty chuffed with this layout. It's out of my comfort zone too. 


manzi1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


manzi above by George Farmer, on Flickr


mazni left by George Farmer, on Flickr


manzi right by George Farmer, on Flickr


manzi situ by George Farmer, on Flickr

I'm thinking LOADS of moss, really short grasses (such Eleocharis 'mini' and parvula), and maybe some short/fine texture stems...


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## tim

Wow pretty much covers it George hardscape masterclass that is an amazing use of manzi


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## webworm

Hard to believe the tank size is only 60x45x30cm feels so much bigger.

Really looks like roots wrapped around a rock formation. Whats the substrate George ?


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## John Starkey

Now this I do like George,it has a wild feel to it,it actually reminds me of some of the small outcrops of gorse on the Yorkshire dales,

Now get planting mate.


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## Mark Evans

Great! George.

Reminiscent of Stu's layout.

An intricate style of planting, with shorter varieties will suit this. The less plant species the better in my opinion.

Manzanita really is a great hardscape material, and can often take the hard work out of creating layouts.


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## darren636

that wood layout, pretty intense


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## Arana

Now we are talking George! love the way it flows over and around the stones making it feel very natural


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## Gill

That looks spectacular, the Manzi looks like tendrels seeking out out prey


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## Gary Nelson

That's really nice mate, it looks so crisp, yet natural... The plants that you have mentioned as well would work brilliantly too - I definitely think that the wood suits that rock work. The rocks were good alone, but now with the wood they compliment each other very nicely.


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## Ady34

Yep, absolutely brilliant!
Put down the hardscape, pick up the phone and order the plants ....and maybe one more piece of manzy for the top as an emergent piece?, Unless youve got plans for an emergent plant up there? 
No amount of photographs will get that the same again if you descape it so if your happy I'd go with this.....there is in fact something for everyone as its out of your comfort zone and your happy with it too.
Top class.


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## sanj

The hardscape is looking really good, the obvious consideration now is the plants and planting that wont end up obscuring most of that layout.

I always end up doing rock and wood hardscape, it never feels right without the both. Just my taste, but that is why I like this one.


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## Palm Tree

I really love that last scape, crypts would go perfectly I think.
Do you have any plans for plants yet ?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, guys. 

Plants will all remain short and fine in texture. As suggested the hardscape is the highlight and shouldn't be obscured excessively. The fine textures will help maintain a good sense of scale.

I'm thinking three varieties of hairgrass (E. 'mini', parvula, acicularis) and moss (maybe weeping and/or spiky).

I usually put crypts in all of my 'scapes but I think these will spoil the sense of scale with their larger leaves, with the possible exception of C. parva.

Other plant suggestions welcome, bearing mind the brief with regards staying short and fine textures. Perhaps a focal point plant amongst the two large rocks on the right - Microsorum 'micro' or 'Trident', perhaps? Perhaps a dash of red - Alternanthera 'Mini', H. "Araguaia"?


----------



## Ian Holdich

And we have a winner! 

I reckon some amania bonsai would also be a good addition along the back. Maybe some Alternanthera rosaefolia mini orAlternanthera
reineckii 'Mini'   to add a little something different to what would normally be a green scape, ime this stays more red than  the Araguaia ....just an idea.


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## nayr88

That's spot on. That wood is FUMIN sexual! Haha


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## Deano3

looks great really like the wood and the layout all together 

kepp us updated
Dean


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## B7fec

Wow George.... all that time away from the hobby and you settle right back into it with a scape like that! Well done mate.... hats off to you. Will be very interested to see the planting come together for this. Good ideas for the finer leave varieties. I've just used 'Araguaia' in a scape of my own and it sits well next to E 'mini'.


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## Dorian

WoW looks great


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## viktorlantos

Mark Evans said:


> Reminiscent of Stu's layout.


 
That was my initial thought before George put this together.
Stu built an amazing hardscape i had hoped G. will pick up some of that direction with the wood.
However i like better this stone. And the whole layout is different than Stu's.   So not scree not stu's scape something else but picking up nice things and elements from the bests.

Go with it George! You can play in your next scapes, but build this out please.
Let this be your easy ride (which isn't easy already  ). Would be a great come back of the old folk 
The frontal shot is very well balanced. Ratios are great. Perfect use of the hardscape and the soil.

Also if you're unhappy with it you have someone already who would love to pick it up and display it in a gallery


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## ghostsword

Now this is a layout..  superb!!!


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## viktorlantos

George Farmer said:


> I'm thinking three varieties of hairgrass (E. 'mini', parvula, acicularis) and moss (maybe weeping and/or spiky).


 
I would also try something else than regular mosses. Try Riccardia with it's fine leaf, some fissidens etc. Bushy large mosses are harder to manage on a long term and will look too large in this small setup.

Grasses are great. This layout also would appreciate Staurogyne Repens or Porto Velho if you keep them short.


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys. I'm really pleased you all seem to like the hardscape as much as I do. Of course, I should be happy, as long as I like it, but the sense of approval is reassuring, so thank you. 

Viktor - thanks for such in-depth feedback mate. To hear comments like that from a pro like you fills me with confidence. If I'm honest after an 8 month break it has taken a while to get back the creative juices, but I think they're flowing ok now.

Later this week I will put in my plant order, still TBD. I anticipate planting by the end of the month.

I will be using RO. I've used hard tap water with success for years but my last couple of scapes used RO, and I think my plants had an 'easier' time with it. I'll likely be stocking tetras too, so they prefer it softer. Another bonus is no limescale build up on the glass due to evaporation.


----------



## Gill

I have ordered 3 types of hair grass for my new scape, looking forward to seeing how we both use them in our own styles.


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## Little-AL

Definitely my favourite of those that you have posted! The fauna choice will also be interesting... Perhaps some micro Rasbora to further enhance the sense of scale?


----------



## viktorlantos

George Farmer said:


> Viktor - thanks for such in-depth feedback mate. To hear comments like that from a pro like you fills me with confidence


 
Nah i am far from pro  still on the learning curve mate. But i am glad if any of the comments are helpful.
The tank with these Manzanita pieces looks awesome. Sometimes a good hardscape will fade easily with plants, and the beauty lost as the plant over take the space, but with Scree you showed that already how to do this right. That's the reason why i look so much for this.


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## pompeyfan

I liked the petrified wood layouts, but with the manzi it raises the bar a notch. It will grow in in no time with those LED's


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## TOO

Just one comment: Plant it!

Thomas


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## GreenNeedle

Good to see you back George.  Scape looks awesome, you've not lost that touch.  Time to spread that talent around though so the rest of the UK can catch up


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## Alastair

This layout looks fantastic George, and makes the tank look much bigger than what it actually is. 
I think everybody is right in they this is definitely the perfect hard scape for this tank. Looking forward to seeing this planted now  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## George Farmer

Little-AL said:


> Definitely my favourite of those that you have posted! The fauna choice will also be interesting... Perhaps some micro Rasbora to further enhance the sense of scale?


Ahh..... fish selection. One of my favourite aspects to aquascaping! It's a long way off yet though, but I agree that they need to be small to keep the sense of scale. Thanks.


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## Danny

A school of micro Rasboras


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

I've decided my plant choice now and am strongly considering trying out the Dry Start Method (DSM).

Comfort zone, schmomfort zone! 

Plant list (mostly Tropica 1-2-Grow) is -

Riccadia chamedryfolia
Fissidens fontanus
Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'

Eleocharis sp. 'mini'
Eleocharis parvula
Ammania sp. 'Bonsai'

Hottonia palustris
Ludwigia sp.

Please check out my thread on DSM questions here, especially if you have experience with DSM. 

Lots of Dry Start Method questions! | UK Aquatic Plant Society

Cheers,
George


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## Arana

Nice selection of plants there mate, especially the hottonia it's always good to see some native plants being used and it will definately benefit from DSM as it can have a hard time adapting to submersed state in my experience


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## scapegoat

This is going to look superb!


----------



## Mrmikey

George that's going to look amazing when it's grown in. I think it's already one of my favoriate layouts you have done. I just like wood and moss.


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys! 

Plants should arrive next week. 

This gives me plenty of time to learn more about DSM.


----------



## Mr P

the layout has a organic natural feel to it,great composition.cant wait to see it planted .great stuff

 all the best roy.


----------



## Brian Murphy

That last layout with the wood is superb and I wouldn't change a thing in it


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## George Farmer

Not much of an update really - well, no photos I'm afraid...

I've emptied the tank, 
the 20 litres of soil is soaking in a plastic container with 10 litres of RO water and 500ml of TPN+,
the wood and rocks are soaking in a separate container,
I've ordered a 30w heating mat to assist with the DSM,
Tropica plants should arrive in a week,
and I have extra Riccardia on its way from the legendary Irish aquascaper, Peter Kirwan.

I also have some super exciting news regarding a DIY device that will have a thread to itself soon...


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## Arana

George Farmer said:


> I also have some super exciting news regarding a DIY device that will have a thread to itself soon...


 
Oooooh! the intrigue


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

I thought I'd share these two photos to show how much the focal length of the lens can influence perspective and depth when photographing an aquarium... 

Here's 10mm focal length (taken with Tamron 10-24mm)

10mm lens by George Farmer, on Flickr

And here's 47mm (I aimed for 50mm with Canon 24-105mm)

50mm lens by George Farmer, on Flickr

As you can clearly see the difference is remarkable. See how far away the window cleaner appears when using ultra-wide angle. Ever wonder how some tanks look mega-deep...? Sometimes it's really clever planting technique etc. Sometimes it's this... Sometimes it's both. 

More on this topic here, if you're interested! Ultra-wide angle (UWA) and aquascaping | UK Aquatic Plant Society


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## Aron_Dip

Looks almost like you have stretched the tank to double the depth.. Things are looking good tho mate


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## LondonDragon

I need one of those lenses! shows how some tanks can be manipulated to look much better on photo than when you actually look at them in person!


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## Ady34

Who needs substrate gradients to add perspective?
....now we can all get a 10mm focal length lens and save money on glass by opting for a 10cm wide tank!

Incredible comparison shots, great to see a real time example!


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## Ian Holdich

Wow, that's 2 great shots. I might have to get one of these tanks. Was just pricing them up and they're a bargain for what you get and the quality looks great.


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## LondonDragon

Ian Holdich said:


> Wow, that's 2 great shots. I might have to get one of these tanks. Was just pricing them up and they're a bargain for what you get and the quality looks great.


I have been looking at those also, but would love an NA tank and cabinet instead! choices choices!


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## Deano3

wow i thought you took first pic from the side then relised they are same angle lol amazing photography

Dean


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## jack-rythm

Deano3 said:


> wow i thought you took first pic from the side then relised they are same angle lol amazing photography
> 
> Dean


Wait.. Their the same shot?... Honestly? I'm no photographer but that's insane! Now I feel stupid lol I thought it was two different angles and that u were merely moving the spray bottle to show perspective! I'll leave the photography to you guys I think, ha!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Deano3

jack-rythm said:


> Wait.. Their the same shot?... Honestly? I'm no photographer but that's insane! Now I feel stupid lol I thought it was two different angles and that u were merely moving the spray bottle to show perspective! I'll leave the photography to you guys I think, ha!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


 
lol i think they are same lol i know it deceives your eyes , is it same angle ? lol got me questioning now

Dean


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## flygja

Very well done George! I'd be tempted to stick a great big log vertically at the back right and make a root scape.


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## George Farmer

Cheers guys. Yes, they are both shot from full frontal positions. 

The only difference is that one needs to be a lot closer to the tank with the 10mm focal length, probably about 30cm, vs. about 3 metres away with the 50mm.


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## George Farmer

Hello everyone,

Nothing too exciting but my heating mat has arrived. Actually, I am very excited, but don't expect the feeling to be reciprocated! 

If you haven't read through the journal properly (let's face it, I don't expect many of you to!), I'm using the heating mat for my dry start method. It's mainly to encourage 100% humidity for the mosses.

As you can see the cable and connector sit proud of the mat, so I've stacked foam squares to elevate the aquarium from the cabinet accordingly. The aquarium actually sits about 3mm above the cabinet now. How this will affect the heat transfer etc; I have no idea!

You can also see that the heating mat doesn't cover the entire aquarium footprint. I hope the heat spread will be fairly uniform, but again, I honestly have no idea! For the record it's rated at 30w.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

hey george, the lead connection is a pain on these.  Ive tried a few ways of resolving it including using aquarium matting over it , cardboard and little squares like this.  The best method i have found is to have the connection hang out the back, they dont give off a lot of heat so being flat against the bottom of the tank seems to be pretty important for any real heat transfer.  Second best was to have an aquarium matt under heat matt with a notch cut out for the plastic connector and the heat matt flipped over.
Do you plan to remove the matt before flooding?


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## foxfish

I can assure you with that size mat, will make the whole tank very toasty, in fact it if your house is warm, it may be too warm!
Edit .. Ian might well be right though, if the tank is slightly raised the mat might no be so efficient.
I guess you have time to find out as the next step?


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## jack-rythm

Can u not stick the mat to the underside of the tank? I know u can with reptile hear mats?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## dw1305

Hi all,
I think it would be better in contact with the mat, but I don't think it will matter too much. It isn't a very aesthetic option, but I'd go for bubble-wrap, or polystyrene, rather than the foam squares. You would need a rectangle the size of the tank, with the footprint of the mat cut out. The tank would them be supported, and the connector protected, but the heat wouldn't be able to escape between gaps, like it can via the foam pads.

You can get foil faced bubble wrap for a smarter job.

cheers Darrel


----------



## hydrophyte

I have tested this kind of thing and I agree that the mat in contact with the glass will heat transfer much better. As easerthegeezer suggested it might be preferable to just have the connection and the rear 1" or so of mat extending from the the back. YOu certainly need to avoid a pressure point on the connection because that will put a lot of force on the glass and the nearby seams.


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## plantbrain

I would route /cut a small U shaped recessed channel for the cord and connection into the stand.
Those dinky pads will be crushed and place a lot o weight on the glass and reduce transfer.

Also, the general idea of heat for the moss: mosses actually do much better in cooler moist areas. This process only takes about 2 weeks for something like Fissidens to cover a lava rock.
I ground the moss in a blender with nutrient rich water, then painted the mix on a few branches, works very well. Takes about 2 weeks of moist cool conditions.
Warmer temps= less moisture in the air. So you have to evaporate more water to do that. Growth rates are higher, but so is demand for water.
Mosses have a high demand for water, but are slow growers, so stick with cooler temps and high humidity for 2 weeks, you do not need a heat source for that.

I think this method of heat is attractive for ADA tanks that need a little warmth, but do not want an in line Hydor type heaters or a heater stick or as thermo filter.
But you know my view on heated sediments....


----------



## Danny

How about just using a JBL substrate heater cable instead of the mat under the tank, sure it would have the same effect.........


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Danny said:


> How about just using a JBL substrate heater cable instead of the mat under the tank, sure it would have the same effect.........


 
dont say that too loud or you'll be in for it


----------



## Danny

lol why?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

roots and cables dont tend to mix well.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks everyone. 

I put some water in the tank yesterday and left the heater mat on all day and overnight. 

The water temperature this morning was 21C, and room temperature 17C.  So a difference of 4C, which I'm guessing is ok. 

The tank is in my kitchen that reaches about 21C once the central heating is in full effect. So I assume the tank would reach about 25C.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, and if this temp differential applies the same to wet soil... Obviously summertime would present different temps.



easerthegeezer said:


> hey george.... Do you plan to remove the matt before flooding?


Hey Iain,

I was planning on removing it, but perhaps I could also use this to heat the aquarium long-term, rather than using an inline heater.  It makes sense as there'd be less kit to clean and restrict flow.

I could put it on a timer to get a better element of control, or even retrofit a thermostat. Although the latter would incur kit in the tank which I'd rather not have.

What are your thoughts mate? 



jack-rythm said:


> Can u not stick the mat to the underside of the tank? I know u can with reptile hear mats?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Hi Jack

The instructions state not to submerge in water. Also, I would never be able to remove it afterwards, and I can't stand having cables going in/out of the tank! 



Danny said:


> How about just using a JBL substrate heater cable instead of the mat under the tank, sure it would have the same effect.........


Hi Danny

Well, substrate heating is widely regarded as a waste of time and money in planted aquariums, unless you're using it to heat the tank instead of a regular heater. I also don't like the aesthetics of the cable, as mentioned to Jack. Having the heating mat under the tank means the cable is invisible.


----------



## jack-rythm

Haha no not inside the tank silly! I meant stuck to the underside of the glass tank.. This is how you attach them to vivariums, I never put these inside the vivariums just underneath. You could use duck tape so it would be easily removable with some white spirit at the end of your project?

Cheers! Jack


----------



## jack-rythm

jack-rythm said:


> Haha no not inside the tank silly! I meant stuck to the underside of the glass tank.. This is how you attach them to vivariums, I never put these inside the vivariums just underneath. You could use duck tape so it would be easily removable with some white spirit at the end of your project?
> 
> Cheers! Jack


And the cable would be completely out of sight  

Cheers! Jack


----------



## George Farmer

jack-rythm said:


> Haha no not inside the tank silly! I meant stuck to the underside of the glass tank.. This is how you attach them to vivariums, I never put these inside the vivariums just underneath. You could use duck tape so it would be easily removable with some white spirit at the end of your project?
> 
> Cheers! Jack


Hi Jack

That was the plan but you can see the power cable and connector that protrude proud of the mat. Hence why I've used pads to allow for the protrusion.

I could, like Iain says, just have the mat poking out from the back, but I figured I'd lose too much heat.

Cheers,
George


----------



## jack-rythm

I understand that mate, but I'm saying allowing for the pads will ultimately let to Much heat out from the gaps. How about you attach the mat to the bottom of the glass and then lay the tank onto a sheet of polystyrene, then in this instance the little plastic bulky thing your worried about can be pressed into the polystyrene by making a small dugout for it to sit inside. That way from the front there is no gap, from the back there is no gap, and the wire is hidden with in the polystyrene, you could even drill a hole in the top of the unit under the tank for the wire to slip through, completely hiding everything ?

Cheers! Jack


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Jack

Thanks for the advice. It's something I considered, but was warned that 30w maybe too much, hence the air gaps to allow for some heat loss.

I think the difference in 5C should be ok. Not sure yet.

By using your suggested method, I wonder if it would actually heat too much?

Cheers,
George


----------



## jack-rythm

well you could embed very small air gap channels on the face of the polystyrene to the edge of the back, allowing for a nice ventilated flow distribution but still to a degree where too much heat isn't lost. so you could have a grid like formation slit into the top of the polystyrene all leading off to the back and sides, still keeping it hidden. the polystyrene would also act as insulation. if you have this on a timer you could control this too. I dont think it would be too hot, with air runners as suggested there would be a suitable amount of ventilation.. i trust your judgement mate  I cant see or feel the mat so this is just a suggestion


----------



## foxfish

I dont think the heat mat would produce to much heat if the tank was full of circulating water but, I would just leave the (stupid design) connector sticking out the back & see how it goes. I use even smaller (area cover) mats & although you do get an uneven substrate heat the condensation effect still works well.
This one only has a 150 x 100mm mat under a 300 x 300 base.


----------



## ghostsword

I do a lot of emersed tanks, and never used a mat.. 

What you need is humidity, so either cover the tank with cling film at the start or get a vivarium mister, and set it on a timer.


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## Mark Evans

A thought provoking idea on the 'dry start' method, George.

Do you think, if successful, you may end up running the tank full time in this manner?

Or do you still plan to 'flood' it' once it's established?

This could look quite something if run 100% dry start. Mosses would look 'tighter' and more 'compact' this way. The overall impression would be sublime with this hardscape.

I've often been tempted to do a 120cm in this manner.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Jack and Luis. 



Mark Evans said:


> A thought provoking idea on the 'dry start' method, George.
> 
> Do you think, if successful, you may end up running the tank full time in this manner?
> 
> Or do you still plan to 'flood' it' once it's established?
> 
> This could look quite something if run 100% dry start. Mosses would look 'tighter' and more 'compact' this way. The overall impression would be sublime with this hardscape.
> 
> I've often been tempted to do a 120cm in this manner.


Hi mate

I love my fish too much to avoid flooding! But, yes, it's certainly an idea I've toyed with. A real landscape! The main issue I can see is the condensation building on the glass, spoiling the view (I'm using a cover glass with heating mat to promote 100% humidity). The alternative would be constant misting with an open top. 

I have an ADA 45F in the garage that I may play with. It would sit perfectly on my desk too. I've promised my wife just one aquarium at any one time this year though...but it's not an aquarium if there's no water! Not sure how she would react to this loophole! Lol


----------



## plantbrain

Route the stand base George. You make a small template and then clamp that onto the stand, then take the router and set your depth, say 7 mm.
Turn it and run the router inside the template groove. You just need a router and maybe an 8 mm bit. If that's a no go, try a piece of HDPE plastic 4-5 mm thick etc or some other material you can cut and transfers heat well, and cut the shape out you need. Then use that.
Foam= bad idea.

I see little issue for heater mats and argued FOR them vs cables for many years. Main thing is getting efficient heat transfer.
It will however do little good for the moss.

Just mist the moss 1-2x a day for 1-2 week. Keep the tank covered. Moss will be stuck to everything. Not sur eif this works for Mini pellia, works for any typical true moss.
I do it for my bonsai, see this one:




Tried it with chopped Gloss on this one:


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Tom. Lovely Bonsai! 

I don't have a router, but I do have another plan.

I have removed the foam pads and will replace them with one large piece of conductive foam. It's actually used to prevent electro-static build-up in ammunition containers.  With this I can easily cut out a portion to fit the cable/connector, and it looks a lot neater.

If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?


----------



## ghostsword

George Farmer said:


> If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?


 
You mean mixing the lot into a paste? Not a bad idea.. 

What I tried a while ago was moss, some amazonia and a few pelets of osmocote (two or three balls), pulverised the lot, and then caked it on wood and rocks.. it worked out ok..


----------



## Brian Murphy

Given me some ideas for starting my new scape with mosses, was unsure about applying extra heat to an emersed set up, but with room temp and heat from the light it should be ok.  Hope the heat mat works out for u George.


----------



## RossMartin

Hi George,

Really looking forward to this tank!

What are your opinons on the Grobeam tiles. Do you think they are worth it over T5 bulbs?

Also do you think one 1500 would be ok for an ADA 75P or do you think i would need two? I would like to grow HC!

Thanks

Ross


----------



## George Farmer

RossMartin said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Really looking forward to this tank!
> 
> What are your opinons on the Grobeam tiles. Do you think they are worth it over T5 bulbs?
> 
> Also do you think one 1500 would be ok for an ADA 75P or do you think i would need two? I would like to grow HC!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ross


Thanks Ross. 

I really like the TMC LEDs. They're proven performers and have a lot going for them - running cost, lifespan, waterproof, low heat output, glitter lines etc.

They're biggest downside is colour rendition for reds. I've yet to see the 1500 over red plants though.

T5 will always remain the most flexible for obtaining whatever colour rendition you like, and are much cheaper to buy outright. By mixing tubes you can really great brilliant colours too. 

I would guess a 1500 Ultima over a 75P should be ample. You may have to experiment with suspending it from different heights above the tank to obtain the desired light spread. I think it would be too close to the aquarium using their MountaRay unit. Another option would be 2x 600 units with the MountaRay - see Ian Holdich's excellent example using 2x 500 units over an 80cm.

Finally, remember that HC isn't that demanding of light. As long as CO2, other nutrient and their distribution are ideal, it can be grown in relatively low light.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
George


----------



## bape

Very much looking foward to updates on this journal and when it is all planted....

Because I have a very similar set up as you


----------



## plantbrain

George Farmer said:


> Thanks, Tom. Lovely Bonsai!
> 
> I don't have a router, but I do have another plan.
> 
> I have removed the foam pads and will replace them with one large piece of conductive foam. It's actually used to prevent electro-static build-up in ammunition containers. With this I can easily cut out a portion to fit the cable/connector, and it looks a lot neater.
> 
> If you're reading this, Tom (or anyone else with an opinion)... What do you think to Darrel's idea of using the nutrient jelly from the Tropica 1-2-Grow pots to help affix the mosses?


 
Sounds good/better.

My ADA 60p is clean and is empty today.
I have a Mame prefilter and overflow on it.
I'm pondering going back to the CO2 gas.

I might try 10-20 different foreground monocultures over time.
Static for fuel storage, fire works, any explosives, are bad also, like Ammo.
I have some gas line and feed systems like that.

The jelly is too rich in nutrients for most mosses really, HC and small roots plants would work well, but only if you have some TC media handy, I would not buy it just for that, but recycling is good.
I've considered using it for growing out the Anubias white I like and first made popular about 12 years ago.
Load it up with sucrose so the plants does not need to make as much due to low Chl a content.

Blender, tank water, slurry=> add to rock, wood etc.

You do not need 100% humidity, let the tank dry out at least for 1-2 hours a day some.


----------



## plantbrain

George Farmer said:


> Thanks Ross.
> 
> I really like the TMC LEDs. They're proven performers and have a lot going for them - running cost, lifespan, waterproof, low heat output, glitter lines etc.
> 
> They're biggest downside is colour rendition for reds. I've yet to see the 1500 over red plants though.
> 
> T5 will always remain the most flexible for obtaining whatever colour rendition you like, and are much cheaper to buy outright. By mixing tubes you can really great brilliant colours too.
> 
> I would guess a 1500 Ultima over a 75P should be ample. You may have to experiment with suspending it from different heights above the tank to obtain the desired light spread. I think it would be too close to the aquarium using their MountaRay unit. Another option would be 2x 600 units with the MountaRay - see Ian Holdich's excellent example using 2x 500 units over an 80cm.
> 
> Finally, remember that HC isn't that demanding of light. As long as CO2, other nutrient and their distribution are ideal, it can be grown in relatively low light.
> 
> I hope that helps.
> 
> Cheers,
> George


 
I've yet to find a decent color from the LEDs for those red plants.
I have hope, but will not buy till I see and know there's ample proof.


----------



## George Farmer

plantbrain said:


> The jelly is too rich in nutrients for most mosses really, HC and small roots plants would work well, but only if you have some TC media handy...


I spoke with Ole Pedersen the other day and he recommended diluted yogurt (containing L. acidophilus) to attached the moss. Apparently the acidity helps to prevent fungal growth. The potential issue with using the jelly, like you say, it's too rich in nutrients.

He also recommended cutting the mosses up into 0.5-1mm bits using new razor blade to avoid bruising, which makes perfect sense.

Ole also advocated injecting CO2 into the aquarium to boost growth. He also recommended using natural light only, because his artificial light was drying the moss excessively. However, I believe he was using an enclosed hooded aquarium with fluorescent lighting. I am using LEDs suspended above, so there's little/no heat transfer.



plantbrain said:


> You do not need 100% humidity, let the tank dry out at least for 1-2 hours a day some.


This is where most of the conflicting advice occurs. I hear that moss likes 100% humidity - but you say not.

In more news I've installed the heating mat so it's physically against the glass now.

It raised the temperature of a glass of water inside the tank to 27C which I think is too warm, especially for moss.

I've just installed the soaked soil and have a thermometer inserted into that, so I can see how warm the soil gets. I've covered the tank with polythene. The idea is to put the heating mat on a timer (say 1hr on, 1hr off) to achieve 22-24C. This is a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature, so should encourage extra humidity.

My plants have also arrived so hopefully I should be posting some more photos soon.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


George Farmer said:


> I spoke with Ole Pedersen the other day and he recommended diluted yogurt (containing L. acidophilus) to attached the moss. Apparently the acidity helps to prevent fungal growth. The potential issue with using the jelly, like you say, it's too rich in nutrients.


Genius, works for Lichens (if you want to age a stone trough etc).


George Farmer said:


> He also recommended using natural light only, because his artificial light was drying the moss excessively. However, I believe he was using an enclosed hooded aquarium with fluorescent lighting. I am using LEDs suspended above, so there's little/no heat transfer.


I think you are right about the drying, and it won't be an issue for you.


George Farmer said:


> This is where most of the conflicting advice occurs. I hear that moss likes 100% humidity - but you say not.


Try Tom's method, if you get brown tips you need to keep the lid on for longer. If I was going to remove it, I'd definitely take the lid off outside of the photo-period, when the room is cool.


George Farmer said:


> I've covered the tank with polythene. The idea is to put the heating mat on a timer (say 1hr on, 1hr off) to achieve 22-24C. This is a few degrees warmer than the ambient temperature, so should encourage extra humidity.


I think that should be about perfect, I will be very surprised if this doesn't work fairly well.

I wouldn't worry about 1 hour on 1 hour off, in fact a little cooling may help outside of the photo-period. You will need to play with the timings, but I'd go for a cooler period at night (8 hours off?).

cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks very much, Darrel. The votes of confidence are very reassuring.


----------



## foxfish

With reference to adding additional C02, attitudes might have changed in recent years but, I can remember this subject being discussed at length on the planted tank forum & I am sure Tom was a contributor to that particular thread?
Anyway it was decided that adding C02 was a total waste of time!
As we have establish from the start of this thread, there seems to be many avenues to success!


----------



## George Farmer

foxfish said:


> With reference to adding additional C02, attitudes might have changed in recent years but, I can remember this subject being discussed at length on the planted tank forum & I am sure Tom was a contributor to that particular thread?
> Anyway it was decided that adding C02 was a total waste of time!
> As we have establish from the start of this thread, there seems to be many avenues to success!


Ok, cool. I'll do a bit more research, and hopefully Tom can add his thoughts/experiences - and anyone else for that matter, of course.


----------



## plantbrain

Regarding yogurt, I have an old text that suggest using milk (whole) and moss in a blender and then paint that over a stone or whatever you want to moss, and keep it cool and wet for the next 2 weeks.

So Ole's suggestion is spot on, different milk product, but very similar, smells like Hell in your aquarium though, better to do the aquarium water.
Yea, I've done it out side, would never stink the home up inside, you can get evicted for that type of stuff. Japanese landscape stones that need some moss to look aged get this treatment FYI.
I've grown moss outside in bonsai for years. I'll take a new pic of that same Juniper and you can see if I'm good at what I do.
The entire thing is covered. And it's pretty dry in California.
DSM folks run into trouble when they go 100% humidity. Fungus, soil algae etc.

We find moss on trees, all over here, but only when its cooler and has been wet, but it'll grow well in between also, just do not let it get too dry at first, so maybe good 100% humidity initially, but not more than a week or two.
Darrel's suggestion is good, you do not need to totally uncover the DSM, just leave a small gap, this will exchange CO2/O2 in/out of the tank.

I leave a small gap in any DSM I've done, this improves everything and reduces the mold/algae issues. I have some Buce's, maybe 1000$ worth, sitting in a simple tupperware tray that has some holes on the bottom of the lid, plenty of air/in/out etc.
This sits right on top on my 70Gal next to the t5's, plenty of heat and light. Those are Buce's, not moss. Moss is wimpy initially. I wet it out 1-2x a day and place in indirect sunlight, never direct. After 2 weeks, then you can move it.

Adding CO2 to a DMS is  a waste of time IME. I tried it on many species when I had a 55 Gallon emergent tank for 3 years or so. Remember, CO2 is heavier than air, and no O2= bad for plants in a sealed DSM.

So a little exchange, not a 100% sealed, is best. What species of moss are you using?
Something like xmas, bulletproof, Fissidens works very well with the method I just suggested. The end result is far better than taking submersed grown Fissidens and then tying to wood and hoping it stays put with cotton thread
Fissidens and many species of moss require a DSM for good attachment it seems. I might be wrong, but I've never seen it attach so well unless a DSM was done.
I have not yet tried this with Mini Pellia, but I certainly plan to.

Cut each piece of moss with a razor? Will Ole come to your home to help you do that fun chore from Hades? haha, I think not, to the blender with your green protein moss shake!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


foxfish said:


> Anyway it was decided that adding C02 was a total waste of time!


It definitely would be a waste of time for the mosses, but higher plants like Tomatoes will show a response to higher CO2. I would think for the plants you might grow DSM it wouldn't offer much appreciable increase in growth rate.




 
From <Carbon Dioxide In Greenhouses>

cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Tom and Darrel. 



dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It definitely would be a waste of time for the mosses, but higher plants like Tomatoes will show a response to higher CO2. I would think for the plants you might grow DSM it wouldn't offer much appreciable increase in growth rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From <Carbon Dioxide In Greenhouses>
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hmmm... Not sure if tomatoes would suit the aquascape, Darrel!


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


George Farmer said:


> Not sure if tomatoes would suit the aquascape


No, they do better emersed, but if you had enough CO2........




cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer

OK, so assuming I follow Tom's DSM advice; I leave a small gap to allow for gas exchange etc., let's say after a week of it being totally covered - hopefully long enough to let the moss establish a bit.

By leaving a gap I guess I will need to spray a little more often.

So my next question - do I spray with RO, or RO with a little nutrients added. If the latter, what's a good mix? I'll use TPN+ (now re-branded as Tropica Specialised).

I'm guessing too much nutrients will burn the moss? But if I'm running high lighting, will the moss need the extra nutrients?

Reminder of plant list - 

Riccadia chamedryfolia
Fissidens fontanus
Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'

Eleocharis sp. 'mini'
Eleocharis parvula

Ammania sp. 'Bonsai'
Hottonia palustris
Ludwigia sp.

The soil is used TMC NutraSoil with nutrients added (500ml TPN+).

This afternoon I'm hoping to at least get the hardscape re-installed. I've even printed out a photo of the original layout to use as reference next to the tank.

The manzy wood has been soaking for about a week. I'm hoping that the humidity and regular spraying during the DSM phase will prevent it from drying out and floating when it comes to flooding.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


George Farmer said:


> do I spray with RO, or RO with a little nutrients added. If the latter, what's a good mix? I'll use TPN+ (now re-branded as Tropica Specialised).


Straight RO, or very, very dilute for the misting.


George Farmer said:


> I'm guessing too much nutrients will burn the moss?


It definitely will.


George Farmer said:


> But if I'm running high lighting, will the moss need the extra nutrients?


I don't think so, if the light levels are too high the photo-systems of the moss will suffer damage whatever happens. Bryophytes aren't like higher plants, they will have maximum productivities orders of magnitude lower than higher plants.
From <Do t8 lights really degrade over time? | Page 2 | UK Aquatic Plant Society> 





ceg4048 said:


> This energy transfer mechanism is a non-radiative method known as Fluorescence Resonance Energy Transfer (FRET). It is FRET that allows the plant to be able to use all wavelengths in the visible spectrum, not just Blue and Red. Even more important is the function of Aux pigments to fluoresce away photons when the energy inputs are too high, which damages the plant and actually inhibits growth rates


cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Darrel. This goes back to your idea of filtering out some lighting using green plastic etc.

I don't suppose we have any actual figures (PAR) for what constitutes 'too much light' for my chosen species of moss? 

I've taken a quick measurement and it is 80umol at the nearest point to the light where the moss will be. I can control the light to give any desired PAR up to this maximum.


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


George Farmer said:


> I don't suppose we have any actual figures (PAR) for what constitutes 'too much light' for my chosen species of moss?


 We do <http://www.bryoecol.mtu.edu/chapters/9-1LightShade.pdf>

cheers Darrel


----------



## Marcel G

Hi Darrel,
can I ask you, what _*light intensity*_ (µmol PAR) would you recommend for _*aquatic mosses*_? In the paper (PDF) there is writen that "light compensation point" (LCP) for some mosses being somewhere between _*4-12 µmol PAR*_, but some kinds of mosses have LCP aroud _*30 µmol PAR*_. Also the mosses in the paper are rather terrestrial mosses (although I suppose the aquatic ones will have simillar LCP). On some other forums (e.g. barrreport.com) I had read that for low-light (shady) aquatic plants we should use at least _*30-35 µmol PAR*_. *What do you think about it?* Is this correct assumption/recommendation? Also I would to know if you have any practical experiences as to the LCP of some most common aquatic mosses/plants: _*What is the LCP of*_ aquatic _*Fissidens, Vesicularia, Taxiphyllum, Anubias*_ ... or other low-light/high-light plants? I will be appreciative for any data/suggestions.

PS: Do you have some suggestion for what minimum light intensity (µmol PAR) should we aim for in our natural aquaria (at the substrate = in the lowest levels) ... how much PAR for low-tech vs. high-tech?

Marcel


----------



## George Farmer

Good questions, Ardjuna, and welcome to UKAPS. 

Tropica state that Riccardia and Fissidens require more light than other mosses.

I visited the Tropica nurseries in Denmark and they were growing their mosses in greenhouses with little or no shading, if I remember correctly. And isn't PAR on a typical overcast day about 200umol? This suggests to me that my lighting may be ok. I will speak with Troels Andersen and report back!


----------



## foxfish

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It definitely would be a waste of time for the mosses, but higher plants like Tomatoes will show a response to higher CO2. I would think for the plants you might grow DSM it wouldn't offer much appreciable increase in growth rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From <Carbon Dioxide In Greenhouses>
> 
> cheers Darrel


Hey Darrel, I live in Guernsey, the once tomato growing centre of the World! I managed a very big tomato vinery, with an added kio farm & tourist attraction, for many years! I must add this was in an era when organic growing was unheard of & we all worked in a haze of C02 & pesticides!!


----------



## Marcel G

George Farmer said:


> Tropica state that Riccardia and Fissidens require more light than other mosses. I visited the Tropica nurseries in Denmark and they were growing their mosses in greenhouses with little or no shading, if I remember correctly. And isn't PAR on a typical overcast day about 200umol? This suggests to me that my lighting may be ok. I will speak with Troels Andersen and report back!


 
Hi George,
I doubt 200 µmol PAR is the recommended light intensity for growing mosses. I have about 70 µmol PAR at the substrate in my two nano tanks, and I would say this light intensity is more than suitable for all kinds of aquatic plants, including high-light plants. The low-light plants don't need as much light. Tom Barr suggests 50 µmol PAR (measured at the substrate) for high-light plants. So if at Tropica they grow mosses at 200 µmol PAR, that's much more higher light that most of us are using in our tanks (no doubt). Anyway I will be glad if you report back what T.Andersen said. Tanks!





Also you can check my page for other measurements:
Přírodní akvárium


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


ardjuna said:


> can I ask you, what light intensity (µmol PAR) would you recommend for aquatic mosses? In the paper (PDF) there is writen that "light compensation point" (LCP) for some mosses being somewhere between 4-12 µmol PAR, but some kinds of mosses have LCP aroud 30 µmol PAR. Also the mosses in the paper are rather terrestrial mosses (although I suppose the aquatic ones will have simillar LCP). On some other forums (e.g. barrreport.com) I had read that for low-light (shady) aquatic plants we should use at least 30-35 µmol PAR.


Good post, these are the questions that we need answered, unfortunately I don't know the answers to many of them, and I don't have access to PAR meter.


ardjuna said:


> What do you think about it? Is this correct assumption /recommendation? Also I would to know if you have any practical experiences as to the LCP of some most common aquatic mosses/plants: What is the LCP of aquatic Fissidens, Vesicularia, Taxiphyllum, Anubias ... or other low-light/high-light plants? I will be appreciative for any data/suggestions.


Again purely guess work, but I would assume that aquatic mosses will have fairly low LCP values, and I don't see that "somewhere between 4-12 µmol PAR" is unreasonable. There are maximum and minimum figures for higher plants from "Physiological Ecology of Tropical Plants" Ulrich Lüttge at <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nEbQAtyUJt8C&pg=PA194&lpg=PA194&dq=light+compensation+point+Aroid&source=bl&ots=I_kPfz04sX&sig=ggqk-ITpi_KQKNR3TRh1xU4ddG8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UaMLUcidAsfW0QW4yYDgDg&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=light%20compensation%20point%20Aroid&f=false>, which suggests that 0.5µmol photons m-2 sec-1 may be the lower limit for shade plants, and 60 - 200 the upper limit.

cheers Darrel


----------



## dw1305

Hi all,


foxfish said:


> Hey Darrel, I live in Guernsey, the once tomato growing centre of the World! I managed a very big tomato vinery, with an added kio farm & tourist attraction, for many years!


Sad the way things go, you can't compete with cheap gas in the Netherlands and Spanish plastic unless the Government are willing to do their bit.


foxfish said:


> I must add this was in an era when organic growing was unheard of & we all worked in a haze of C02 & pesticides!!


You'd be fine now, they still have the CO2, but they use IPM for pest control. When I worked on the nursery we were told to be careful with the "Temik", because the Bhopal factory making it had blown up and it was in short supply, but nothing about how toxic it was.
I mucked about a bit at Bath University with perlite trough culture for Tomatoes, but I knew it was a dead duck right from the start.

Did you grow Kiwi Fruit after the Tomatoes had gone? I remember it was a short-lived boom that was going to keep the glass productive.

cheers Darrel


----------



## George Farmer

Hey Darrel, sorry to break up the tomato party between you and foxfish but I have some news regarding my tank!  lol (Just kidding guys - I feel honoured that two of the most respected UKAPS members are posting so much in my journal). 

So today I actually managed to get some planting done! It's so exciting for me; the first time I've touched an aquarium plant since May last year.

It's also my first ever attempt at attaching mosses using the 'blender' method. Here's what I did...

1. Put the moss into a plastic jug. Here I am using a mix of Riccardia chamedryfolia and Fissidens fontanus with a 4:1 ratio of Riccardia to Fissidens. I have decided not to use weeping moss at the moment. The idea between mixing the species is to hopefully create a more natural effect as the different textures merge.

2. Add a blob of greek yoghurt to about 100ml of RO water and mix.

3. Add the yoghurt solution to the plastic jug.

4. I used a hand-held blender to chop up the Riccardia/Fissidens.

5. The result is a green liquid containing millions of tiny pieces of moss.

moss paste by George Farmer, on Flickr

6. I use a paintbrush to attach the moss to the wood and rocks.

moss brush by George Farmer, on Flickr

The result looks quite effective, I think.


moss closeup by George Farmer, on Flickr


moss close2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


moss complete by George Farmer, on Flickr

The tank is covered with polythene (awaiting a custom-built cover glass) and have set my heating mat so there's a relatively constant 21C air temperature inside. The soil is slightly warmer. Room temperature is 18-20C.

The photoperiod has been set to 14hrs, with 2hrs ramping up and down at end of the period, so 10hrs at max intensity (<=80 PAR).

I will leave the tank covered for the first week.

Then I will fit my cover glass so a small air gap can encourage some gas exchange, as recommended by Mr Barr.

I happened to find a bottle of "Do!Aqua Be Bright" in my garage so am considering using this to spray the plants. be Bright, do!aqua liquid additive for growing plants emersed

Tomorrow I plant the remaining plants (mainly hairgrass and some stems).


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Nice george, look forward to seeing how the moss paint works for you.  All going well i think it will give a great natural feel to the tank.
Only thing i would mention is when you do start spraying be sure to use a mister not a spray and do it from distance or it tends to wash the moss away until it attaches properly.


----------



## Eboeagles

I'm very late to this party but an amazing journal George (as to be expected), it's got to be the best I've read for a while, mainly due to everyone pitching in with thoughts, advice and even tomatoes!

Very interested in the yogurt DSM comments - keep meaning to try some DSM moss stones and this is inspiring me to go for it.

I'm sure you've seen this, but I love this DSM journal here and it's one of my favourite scapes:

Aquatic Plant Central

Looking forward to watching this and seeing it start growing in.


----------



## Marcel G

George Farmer said:


> It's also my first ever attempt at attaching mosses using the 'blender' method. Here's what I did... 2) Add a blob of greek yoghurt to about 100ml of RO water and mix.


 
Hi George, how did you come to the idea of "*greek yogurt*"? And how much of it do you use (what is "*blob*")?


----------



## George Farmer

ardjuna said:


> Hi George, how did you come to the idea of "*greek yogurt*"? And how much of it do you use (what is "*blob*")?


Hi,

Ole Pedersen recommended a yoghurt containing L. acidophilus. Apparently the acidity helps prevent fungal growth. One blob is exactly 5.34ml.


----------



## Gary Nelson

This is looking great and a very interesting read, for me this is a very new way of growing moss... Interesting stuff and I will be watching with great interested in the results, which I'm sure will be a success.
Why the Greek yogurt though? What's  wrong with a good old fashioned Ski yogurt or Munch Bunch come to think of it   only joking


----------



## plantbrain

You finally did it!

Good job, now keep it misted and relatively cool, let it air out a little after a week or two.

At 2-3 weeks in, it should be ready to go.

Light, you do not need much, 20-40 umol should be fine, if you add a bit more later, not an issue.

I have these same mosses/liverworts sitting right under my lights slightly above water on the surface, maybe 600-700 umols?
But plenty of water access.

Once they attach, they will be fine.
Then crank the CO2/add water etc.


----------



## JEK

George Farmer said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ole Pedersen recommended a yoghurt containing L. acidophilus. Apparently the acidity helps prevent fungal growth. One blob is exactly 5.34ml.


The layout is looking great, George. Can't wait to see it fully planted. Have you decided on the stocking yet?

I' m curious about the yoghurt. Is it only because of the low pH that you use it or does it have other  effects to?


----------



## ghostsword

George Farmer said:


> Hi,
> 
> Ole Pedersen recommended a yoghurt containing L. acidophilus. Apparently the acidity helps prevent fungal growth. One blob is exactly 5.34ml.


 

Note that people that do vivariums use yoghurt and moss, for many years..  it is a very good way to get the moss going.


----------



## Derek Tweedie

Hi George great read so far 13 pages and still a dry tank, gonna be a long journal. I take the yoghurt method can only be used on a dry start? I suppose it beats tying the stuff down with thread or fishing line.


----------



## B7fec

Hey George, this is very interesting, cant wait to see how the moss mix turns out..... great stuff as usual!


----------



## foxfish

No pressure then George! LOL.....


----------



## Ian Holdich

Good to see the moss paste pics George. This is a really interesting journal. This is what a journal should be about. Make sure you keep us upto date on the moss growth (with pics).


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks all. 



JEK said:


> ... Have you decided on the stocking yet?
> 
> I' m curious about the yoghurt. Is it only because of the low pH that you use it or does it have other  effects to?


Fish selection is a long way off yet. A shoal of something small, no doubt.

I'm not sure about the science behind the yoghurt. Sorry! 

Cheers,
George


----------



## ghostsword

I also don't know why it works.  just that it does..  

I am very excited about this scape.. It will look awesome.. Well it does already, but it will look more awesome (if grammar allows for this construct). 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> Tomorrow I plant the remaining plants (mainly hairgrass and some stems).



Tomorrow never comes 
It better, the suspense is killing me George .....


----------



## tim

Love that moss paste George (looks like pesto) I will be trying this in a propagator come spring, excellent read so far


----------



## virgojavier

Love the idea with moss. I will try this with my next project.


----------



## Greenview

George Farmer said:


> Hi,
> 
> One blob is exactly 5.34ml.



In my experience it is best to take the yoghurt out of the fridge for a few mins before taking the blob, if the yoghurt is too cold the blob can easily be twice this size.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks all! 

So now I've almost finished planting... 

I was thrilled when my youngest daughter, Florence, expressed a genuine interest in helping out her Dad. Here she is planting some Ammania sp. 'Bonsai' behind red Ludwigia...


florence2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

...and preparing Eleocharis parvula. 


florence1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Today we plant Eleocharis 'mini'. 


planted1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

I'll post more pics once it's fully planted. 

Cheers,
George


----------



## jack-rythm

looking great as usual, looking forward to seeing how the moss does, I have heard it floats off the wood but time wil tell.. Im sur you have used methods to reduce te chances of this! like yoghurt! lol


----------



## Ian Holdich

It's great when the kids take an interest in what we're doing isn't it. 

It's looking good!


----------



## clonitza

Looking great mate! Nice to see you back in business.


----------



## Arana

Looking Good!  i wish i could get my boy interested but he has just discovered girls so no chance for about the next 10 years!


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Arana said:


> Looking Good! i wish i could get my boy interested but he has just discovered girls so no chance for about the next 10 years!


planted tanks are much easier to understand


----------



## clone

Great depth of the field and plant choice. Interesting Yogurt metod, but what about dairy fermentation and mold? I wish my Dad was interested from planted tanks when I was kid. But he teached me some other DIY stuff which I am gretefull. That will be another stunning tank.


----------



## MARKCOUSINS

A hell of a lot of thought,planning and patience that you have put into this that's why your scapes turn out top notch!A lesson to us all.Very interesting and informative.Cheers mark


----------



## Alastair

Looks great so far George. Really interested to see how the moss takes. Can imagine it smells wonderful ha ha. I remember my mum when I was younger pasting natural yoghurt onto rocks in the garden and within a coupleof months they would be covered green. 
It's great to see your little one getting involved too.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Well, it's taken a while but I'm finally fully planted. This aquascape so far has certainly been a marathon and not a sprint. 

The last of the plants to go in were 1-2-Grow Tropica Eleocharis sp. 'mini'. I've used this plant once before but found it tricky to divide without wasting a lot of healthy plants. I prefer to divide it up into more portions than recommended by Tropica, as I can get more and faster coverage.

This is what one pot looks like out of its container - it literally pulls out in one go, really cleanly.


eleocharis mini 12grow by George Farmer, on Flickr

Rather than using scissors to cut up into 8 or so pieces, I have used a Stanley knife blade. This way I can get over 20 portions with virtually no wastage.

Here you can see one pot's worth on top of the tank ready for planting.


1 pot e mini by George Farmer, on Flickr

Here is the tank is fully planted. I've added another three species on top of my original list - M. pteropus 'Micro', L. brasiliensis and A. nana 'Petite'. Still unsure about the Anubias and fern in the long-term but they're easy enough to remove if I don't like it. I've also add a few 'strands' of Weeping moss strategically across various pieces of wood/rock interfaces.

*Final plant list*
_Riccadia chamedryfolia_
_Fissidens fontanus_
_Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping'_
_Eleocharis sp. 'mini'_
_Eleocharis parvula_
_Echinodorus tenellus_
_Lilaeopsis brasiliensis_
_Microsorum pteropus 'Micro'_
_Ammania sp. 'Bonsai'_
_Hottonia palustris_
_Ludwigia sp._


final planting overhead by George Farmer, on Flickr

And finally, Florence gets a shot of her Dad admiring his handywork! 


me and tank by George Farmer, on Flickr

Now I wait patiently. Hopefully the plants will take ok and settle into their new home. I'm try hard not to even think about the flooding yet...


----------



## Greenview

That is looking really great, George. 
Can't wait to see it flooded.


----------



## Arana

Superb mate you have excelled yourself


----------



## Ady34

Luuurrrvvlyyyy!......
but I don't know how you can resist the flood, id want to see them swaying


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Lazy with cutting the E. sp. mini up with a razor! I would have expected a pro like yourself to at least have planted stems individually ! 

On a serious note, nice one George ( or should I say Florence?) with this, looks like its going to be spectacular when grown in!

Great adventure too with DSM! Im liking what you did with the fissidens.  I think Im going to give that a go when I get chance. 

Nice one!


----------



## danmullan

Looks set to be another amazing one George, I hope DSM goes well.


----------



## dagzz

looking sweet mate


----------



## B7fec

Looking great George.  Have you made any provisions for if the wood floats on flooding?


----------



## whatok

There's something missing from this 'scape, but I can't quite put my finger on it.


----------



## Aron_Dip

whatok said:


> There's something missing from this 'scape, but I can't quite put my finger on it.


water at the minute hehe ...

Looking awesome mate looking forward too see how the moss takes of 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. Back at work now so less time on the forum now I'm afraid!



B7fec said:


> Looking great George.  Have you made any provisions for if the wood floats on flooding?


Hi Ben

I pre-soaked the wood for a good week or so before adding to the tank. It was all saturated enough to sink at this point.

My hope is that this in combination with the constant high levels of humidity and misting will prevent it from drying out and hopefully preventing any stinky brown floaters! 

Cheers,
George


----------



## B7fec

Cheers for that George, I've got my fingers crossed for you mate as it would be gutting to see it float!


----------



## bape

looking very nice indeed. now cant wait for the plants to fill in the gaps!


----------



## jon32

Great read. I have been interested in DSM for a while now and have been planning my own tank for several months so this journal is of particular interest to me. I really like this scape, it looks fantastic. Hope it progresses well.


----------



## Mark Evans

Looks great George. There seems to be some ugly git in one of the shots though...


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Things seem to be going ok so far but I know it's early days so don't want to tempt fate!

A couple of species are struggling - the E. tenellus was supplied in submerged form so no surprises there. The same story with the petite Anubias and micro fern. 

If I get time I will post some pics soon.



Mark Evans said:


> Looks great George. There seems to be some ugly git in one of the shots though...


lol - you git!


----------



## Ady34

If the micro fern is struggling mate it may be best to send it to me to put underwater rather than see it suffer  lol
Look forward to more photos.....we do love pictures!
Cheerio,


----------



## Jason Greenslade

This is a great journal !  I like the idea of the bespoke top...  sorry if I missed it but are these easy enough to find someone to make ?  It would almost make getting an open top tank an option for me (the Mrs wont allow it cos she reckons it will chuck out too much humidity).  

And can I ask about that eleocharis mini grass stuff... it looks super healthy and you said you cut it up, but can you describe what you actually do to it ?  IE where do you cut etc ?  Ive always liked the look of a grassy section in some peoples tanks and might give it a bash.  Thanks.


----------



## George Farmer

Jason Greenslade said:


> This is a great journal !  I like the idea of the bespoke top...  sorry if I missed it but are these easy enough to find someone to make ?  It would almost make getting an open top tank an option for me (the Mrs wont allow it cos she reckons it will chuck out too much humidity).
> 
> And can I ask about that eleocharis mini grass stuff... it looks super healthy and you said you cut it up, but can you describe what you actually do to it ?  IE where do you cut etc ?  Ive always liked the look of a grassy section in some peoples tanks and might give it a bash.  Thanks.


Thanks Jason. 

I got my local glazier to make me a 60x45cm 6mm optiwhite toughened with polished edges. It cost £25. I pick it up today actually.

To prep the mini grass I cut the whole surface planting into 4 equal-width strips, then cut each strip into 1-2cm portions.

Here's a quick update pic taken with my phone, because my daughter keeps hogging the DSLR!


Florence shooting by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Hi George,
with a hardscape as full as this with increased substrate heights, do you take into consideration what species of plants you plant where to help with any distribution issues.
My guess would be that your planning on positioning your lily pipe inlet and outlets at the front right hand side of the tank which given the hardscape may leave a slight dead spot at the very right foreground? You may be positioning them elsewhere of course, I'd just like to get your take on it.
If that's where the pipes are positioned, the rest of the hardscape and planting look well positioned to maximise distribution, I just can't quite see what you've got in the right front other than hair grass.
Cheers
Ady


----------



## Deano3

looking good cannot wait to see grown in, keep us updated george, very helpful

Thanks Dean


----------



## plantbrain

That E. mini hair grass of Tropica's is from me personally.
I think I'll try the yogurt with the mini pellia for my ADA 60p that's been bare for and shall remain for another 2 more months.


----------



## plantbrain

BTW, the mini grass will grow like normal hairgrass emergent, but..............submersed growth will stay small.

So as the new runners appear(1-2 weeks), then trim the taller old emergent leaves.
They will do no good afterwards, so 2-4 weeks, trim them off.


----------



## George Farmer

Ady34 said:


> Hi George,
> with a hardscape as full as this with increased substrate heights, do you take into consideration what species of plants you plant where to help with any distribution issues.
> My guess would be that your planning on positioning your lily pipe inlet and outlets at the front right hand side of the tank which given the hardscape may leave a slight dead spot at the very right foreground? You may be positioning them elsewhere of course, I'd just like to get your take on it.
> If that's where the pipes are positioned, the rest of the hardscape and planting look well positioned to maximise distribution, I just can't quite see what you've got in the right front other than hair grass.
> Cheers
> Ady


Hi Ady

Great questions and comments - as to be expected from you! 

In summary my plant choice and position is purely down to the aquascape design from an aesthetic perspective. I have not considered circulation patterns.

The filter outlet/inlet will be on the right, because the aquarium will be viewed mostly from the left - hence the negative space on the left too.

You're right to 'warn' about the potential dead-spot on the front right but I'm not worried. It's mostly E. mini there, and it's not demanding. I'll be using fairly powerful filtration (likely Fluval G3) which should get the CO2 in all four corners. If it doesn't I'll make adjustments, as appropriate.

Cheers,
George



plantbrain said:


> BTW, the mini grass will grow like normal hairgrass emergent, but..............submersed growth will stay small.
> 
> So as the new runners appear(1-2 weeks), then trim the taller old emergent leaves.
> They will do no good afterwards, so 2-4 weeks, trim them off.


Thanks for the tips, Tom. All the best with the yoghurt method - it doesn't smell that bad.


----------



## andyh

Flood it!!!


----------



## cookie3985

This is an amazing Journal. I love the fact that your daughter gets involved. Can't wait to see it mature over the coming weeks.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Thanks for all of the lovely feedback. 

It's been 8 days since planting and I'm happy with the results so far.

There's definite growth of most plants, including the mosses. I had to remove the petite Anubias and micro fern as they were totally melted (they were submersed form and kept in cold garage for 4 weeks prior!)

I've been too busy to get out the camera so here's a very quick and poorly produced video taken on my phone - but least you get an idea...

I'll try to get some decent photos up soon. 



Cheers,
George


----------



## Deano3

looks great george cannot wait to see flooded

Dean


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looking good! The fittonia looks really good, looks like it'll be ready for flooding soon.


----------



## foxfish

Why is every one so keen to see the tank full of water!
I thought the idea was to let the plants establish roots & put on a bit of fast growth?
I love the look of the tank without water & I would love to see how it develops in this state, this is a very good & exciting experiment that might just aid us all in the long run!
Please have_ patients _George


----------



## StevenA

I've been lucky enough to see this tank in the flesh, so to speak, and it really is awesome, great plant choice, especially loved the Hottonia in the back right top corner. Defo going to try and incorporate that in a future setup  The idea with the mosses is very intriguing too. The hard scape is wonderful George, very innovative use of rocks and wood placement to compliment each other.


----------



## Brian Murphy

Looking really well, but I was wondering aswell about the yogurt/moss mixture and how you avoid bacteria growth and what occurs when it is eventually flooded?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

The subject of patience is an interesting one - I like the term "delayed gratification". I'd like to keep this 'dry' for a while longer.

Here are some pics I took last night.

Here are the melted Anubias petite and micro fern...


melted plants by George Farmer, on Flickr

But the remaining plants look great.


full tank day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr


close mid by George Farmer, on Flickr


ludwigia by George Farmer, on Flickr


left side view by George Farmer, on Flickr


left covered by George Farmer, on Flickr


full covered by George Farmer, on Flickr


left wood by George Farmer, on Flickr


ludwigia hottonia by George Farmer, on Flickr


wood right by George Farmer, on Flickr


fine riccardia by George Farmer, on Flickr


ludwigia2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


ammania bonsai by George Farmer, on Flickr


ammania2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


misting by George Farmer, on Flickr


overhead2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


situ day 8 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Stitch

It's looking amazing! Great Journal, learning a lot.

Going to be some very lucky fish/shrimp to eventually move in here


----------



## MARKCOUSINS

Some great shots plants look in good health growth can be seen what is going to be interesting for me is what happens with the plant matter you pasted onto the wood.Well done watching with anticipation Cheers mark


----------



## Arana

the Ludwigia and Hottonia are looking lush mate, nice 1


----------



## greenink

Haven't seen the hottonia before - really lovely plant. Great variety of shots here, makes so clear what you're doing.


----------



## cookie3985

This is great, do you think there could be issues when you do eventually flood it with the plants readjusting to life under water? I have not seen this method domcumented in such detail before so was curious. I would never have the 'patience' for this I would have filled it days ago  hence why I'm not known for my aquascaping talents lol.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, all. 

The latest photos are a bit of a cheat I'm afraid.... Usually the inside glass is covered with condensation so you can't really see what's in there.  For me this is the biggest reason I'm wanting to flood it sooner rather than later. I'm constantly up against the glass trying to get a good peak! lol

The main factor for trying the DSM was to try out the moss-blending technique. Now that seems to have worked, and the moss is affixed to the hardscape, I don't think it will be long before I flood... Sorry foxfish! 



cookie3985 said:


> This is great, do you think there could be issues when you do eventually flood it with the plants readjusting to life under water? I have not seen this method domcumented in such detail before so was curious. I would never have the 'patience' for this I would have filled it days ago  hence why I'm not known for my aquascaping talents lol.


Thanks. 

All of the plants will have to go through a phase of adjustment and this is the mostly likely time they'll be issues I think.

My plan is to use a lot of CO2 and water changes to hopefully help. I will also run less light intensity and shorter photoperiod to help prevent algae.

Cheers,
George


----------



## Derek Tweedie

Have you had any thoughts to fauna yet George? That plant in the back right is really nice looking, mind you the whole tank is looking good.


----------



## LondonDragon

George Farmer said:


> Here are the melted Anubias petite and micro fern...


Those two need very high levels of humidity to survive emersed, you can add them later when you flood it, if you ever do 
Looking awesome so far  wonder if the coral pellia will attach!!


----------



## George Farmer

Derek Tweedie said:


> Have you had any thoughts to fauna yet George? That plant in the back right is really nice looking, mind you the whole tank is looking good.


Hi Derek,

I popped into my LFS today and they had some nice Ember tetras.  Nice small size, good colour and shape - 15 or so should look good. That and a load of cherry shrimp.  Microrasbora kubotai are another contender with a subtler coloration when against the green planting, but nice contrast with the red Ludwigia and rocks (before they're fully coated in moss).

I'm open to other ideas, of course. 

Cheers,
George


----------



## Derek Tweedie

Nice little fish, I have something similar Axelrodia riisei they have a nice schooling behaviour. One fish I would suggest is the Jelly Bean tetra. I had these many years ago and been wanting the ever since for my planted tank. I would recommend them if you can get them.


----------



## George Farmer

Derek Tweedie said:


> Nice little fish, I have something similar Axelrodia riisei they have a nice schooling behaviour. One fish I would suggest is the Jelly Bean tetra. I had these many years ago and been wanting the ever since for my planted tank. I would recommend them if you can get them.


Thanks, Derek. 

Funnily enough I also saw some Jelly bean tetras last week in The Waterzoo (Peterborough) and thought they would look good. Also stay small. I think the family were after something more colourful though, so we will see.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Embers would look great! Not sure on the microboras though, the green tends to get a little lost in the planting ime. They also love jumping.


----------



## Deano3

Great pictures mate and although I am looking forward to seeing lucky fish in there I think the DSM is Woking great, my hair grass roots are massive from doing this and hopefully when flood will grow lush, great progress so far keep the pics coming

Thanks Dean


----------



## Alastair

love the latest shots George. you must have good will power to resist that urge to fill. I'd have had the hose on days ago 
it's going to look even better when it is full


----------



## andyh

Flood it!!!


----------



## George Farmer

andyh said:


> Flood it!!!



I think I'll be flooding it this weekend. Although I may empty it again as soon as the moss detaches! Fingers-crossed it doesn't...

I'll be using 12mm gUSH nano inlet and outlet, Fluval G3 filter and Up Aqua inline CO2. Heating will be done by my £13 heating mat. 

I wrote a review of the glassware here - [REVIEW] gUSH glassware | UK Aquatic Plant Society

I will be using mostly RO water as I have better plant growth with softer water, and tetras prefer it.

I'm quite excited, but also a little anxious about how the plants will fare during the transistion.


----------



## andyh

George Farmer said:


> I think I'll be flooding it this weekend. Although I may empty it again as soon as the moss detaches! Fingers-crossed it doesn't...
> 
> I'll be using 12mm gUSH nano inlet and outlet, Fluval G3 filter and Up Aqua inline CO2. Heating will be done by my £13 heating mat.
> 
> I wrote a review of the glassware here - [REVIEW] gUSH glassware | UK Aquatic Plant Society
> 
> I will be using mostly RO water as I have better plant growth with softer water, and tetras prefer it.
> 
> I'm quite excited, but also a little anxious about how the plants will fare during the transistion.


Exciting times George! Great journal so far, a good learning curve.
Still cant believe you have been playing with yoghurt! Mental

Anyway one final thing......................................FLOOD IT!


----------



## jack-rythm

I bet ur loving this hype, u ain't even thought about flooding it have u! Lol

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Ady34

Hi George, 
are you not tempted to leave this just another week to ensure the moss is attached? If you flood it now and it detaches, won't that set you back a month or so?
Will you be running your inline co2 diffuser on the filter inlet or return pipe?

It's looking great already and I'm loving the look of the Hottonia palustris, I've not seen that one before. The ludwigia will add a nice bar of colour too without being too 'in yer face' for the subtle tones of the rock and wood in this more natural feeling layout.
Really looking forward to seeing it with water, but it would be a shame for the moss not to have settled properly and cause issues......
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Ady, thanks for the questions and comments, as always. 

I'll be running the CO2 on the outlet; at least to start with so I can physically see the circulation pattern. If I get fed up with the mist I may switch to the inlet.

I don't want to speak too soon but I'm quietly confident the moss will remain in place. I've sprayed it directly up close and it hasn't budged. 

I'm also experiencing minor algae amongst the mini grass where the water is collecting in the shallows - I have probably sprayed too much water over the last couple of weeks but I was paranoid about the moss drying out.

I think the algae will get worse quite quickly due to the high light intensity and long photoperiod. It will be interesting to see what happens to it after flooding with less light etc.

Cheers
George


----------



## Palm Tree

Could you not spot dose Liquid carbon onto the algae or use a turkey baster to remove the excess water?


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> I don't want to speak too soon but I'm quietly confident the moss will remain in place. I've sprayed it directly up close and it hasn't budged.
> 
> I'm also experiencing minor algae amongst the mini grass where the water is collecting in the shallows - I have probably sprayed too much water over the last couple of weeks but I was paranoid about the moss drying out.
> 
> I think the algae will get worse quite quickly due to the high light intensity and long photoperiod. It will be interesting to see what happens to it after flooding with less light etc.
> 
> Cheers
> George


Ah, i see, sounds like the moss may well be ok then.....even with G3 power! 
Do you think the algae is due to standing water above the substrate level, and If so, would you keep the water level no higher than substrate level for future dsm plantings to try and avoid avoid it?
I'm sure after flooding you will be able to control it with reduced lighting and good co2.

Great journal so far, a very comprehensive dry start method step by step!.....for me the best is still to come 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## gmartins

Is it BGA? I also had it when I dry-started some time ago. If so, I'd go for a 3-4 day blackout prior to flooding.

Using excel now while emersed might be too strong as there's little volume of water. It would kill the plants as well.


----------



## ghostsword

George Farmer said:


> I have probably sprayed too much water over the last couple of weeks but I was paranoid about the moss drying out.


 
Drop the water level..  below the substrate. Use a fine mesh and a co2 pipe to suck it out, or use one of this:


----------



## tim

loving this journal so far george, lots of good info and inspirational layout, personally i don't know how you have waited this long to flood after being away from a tank for so long  are you going to weight the wood down for flooding just in case or are you happy it is water logged enough from the spraying the tank has recieved ?


----------



## foxfish

If I read that word 'FLOOD' one more time I will scream!!!!! LOL.


----------



## Gary Nelson

This has been a great learning curve for me and I'm sure many others too - I'm really glad you did this dry start George, it's been a great journal and read so far with great photos too, it really does look superb!... But I am looking forward to seeing some fish in it now enjoying a great new home - well done so far mate.


----------



## clone

Loving your tank. Great plant growth too. I am excited about the mosses done by the yoghurt method. The minor algae is because the extremely high level of ferts and amonia in to your standing water. I empty mine every few days with dropper ar very thin pipe. I have tested the amonia level and..........was horrified. I am also paranoid about the mosses bein too dry i think that algae problem will not affect the flooded tank at all...as lon as you drain completely the first water out of the tank. Sorry about the pettite mine is not melted I dont know why I just trow it on the wood and it attach itself. Good luck with the flood


----------



## Bufo Bill

George, I've been watching this thread for a while and would like to tell you how useful your posts have been. The in depth approach has answered many of my questions on this method, and for many other people too judging from the responses. You just don't get this amount of detailed info in an edited article in a magazine or a "how to" article. 
Also this scape is one of my favourite of your designs, and the design process was a real lesson for me (I am pretty much a "Woo hoo, chuck it in and see what happens" kind of guy).

All the best from Bill. 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

ghostsword said:


> Drop the water level..  below the substrate. Use a fine mesh and a co2 pipe to suck it out, or use one of this:



Aren't they called 'douches'


----------



## RynoParsons

Just for foxfish FLOOD it haha. Great scape. Would also wait for the dry start to get the plants more full. Thats the reason for a dru start any way? That wood work looks great


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, as always, for all of the comments. 

I've loved trying out a few different techniques with this tank - it's been a real joy to get back into the aquascaping hobby and also to share the journey with you guys. I really think the yoghurt method could catch-on (pun intended!) and may create a separate Tutorial topic on this method.



tim said:


> ... are you going to weight the wood down for flooding just in case or are you happy it is water logged enough from the spraying the tank has recieved ?


Yes, I will use a couple of stones to ensure there's no floaters. Then I can slowly lift them and inspect for any signs of movement... 



RynoParsons said:


> Just for foxfish FLOOD it haha. Great scape. Would also wait for the dry start to get the plants more full. Thats the reason for a dru start any way? That wood work looks great


My main reason for the DSM was to get the mosses attached without me having to either stick my fingers together with superglue or tie my fingers to the wood with thread! lol

Anyway, tonight I am busy with this tank, so hopefully expect some updates soon... 

Cheers,
George


----------



## George Farmer

Ady34 said:


> Do you think the algae is due to standing water above the substrate level, and If so, would you keep the water level no higher than substrate level for future dsm plantings to try and avoid avoid it?


Simple answer mate - yes. 



gmartins said:


> Is it BGA? I also had it when I dry-started some time ago. If so, I'd go for a 3-4 day blackout prior to flooding.
> 
> Using excel now while emersed might be too strong as there's little volume of water. It would kill the plants as well.


No, it's not BGA. I would probably be in a state of panic if it were! It's like a green variety of the soft brown algae you often see in new set-ups. Real easy to remove. I'm not really worried about it....yet...


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

It's flooded. 

The process went without a hitch and I'm thoroughly pleased with the results so far.

The wood didn't float and all of the moss had remained attached.

I've lowered the lighting to around 35 PAR at the substrate for a 6 hour photoperiod.

The CO2 is very high - about 5BPS through an inline diffuser.

I'm planning to change about 70% water every day for a week, then 50% twice per week after that.

I'm dosing TPN+, as well as Aqua Rebel's Special N and Micro. All 1ml each every day.

*Before...*

covered by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Ready for filling*

empty by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Filling with airline*

filling by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Just after filling and filter fitted*

full by George Farmer, on Flickr

*You can see how the moss has attached in these photos...*

rock wood 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


wood moss 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


wood moss 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


rock wood 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


left view by George Farmer, on Flickr


close left by George Farmer, on Flickr


ricc fiss 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


riccardia 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


riccardia rock by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Ludwigia pearling*

ludwigia by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Glassware. Note the high CO2.*

glassware by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Full tank*

full tank by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## LondonDragon

Looks great George, now just move it to my living room and you can start a new one!


----------



## Deano3

wow looks amaing mate really good  bravo, you going to cycle then get some fish in there , any ideas what fish

Dean


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looks great George! It's a whole new scape now. This is going to be a real winner when that all gets going. 

Any chance of a pic showing the height of the tile please?


----------



## Gary Nelson

Stunning!!! great photos, brilliant to see how the moss has attached and grown on the rock and wood - the whole layout has really come together.


----------



## Arana

It's amazing the difference a drop of H2O can make, Fantastic job George


----------



## Alastair

wow that last shot looks fantastic George and the moss attached was well worth the yoghurt mess. really really like it


----------



## danmullan

Looks amazing.

The colour of the Ludwigia looks good, do you find the white rendition of the 1500 better for reds?


----------



## tim

Moss looks really good George will definately try this method, stunning start to the scape


----------



## jon32

Lovely. That will be some lucky fauna that get to live in there. I can't wait to see it in a few months time.


----------



## foxfish

Looks great, did you leave the heating mat in place & if so, is it working?


----------



## O'Neil

Another masterpiece George.


----------



## Nathaniel Whiteside

Nice. Reaaal nice.
Well done George


----------



## andyh

Wow! That looks Bitchin! 
Glad you finally Flooded it

Firstly - Great Photo journal mate, lovely series of photos showing the transition! I think that the people of UKAPS are spoilt with the high level of photography skills, its something i really aspire to improve upon.

The riccardia and the moss, look great. I honestly thought Farmer had lost his mind when you started playing with yoghurt, but i admire that you do try stuff and give a warts and all journal. Its looks very natural and should create a pleasing effect. 

I adopted the high CO2 and no livestock in my Green Beach scape for the first time. The results spoke for themselves, Its the only way i plan to start tanks going forward. Not convinced about the dry start yet, but yours does look like it has worked, especially on the moss and wood side of things.

Will the ludwigia stay that red?

Keep up the good work dude

Andyh


----------



## George Farmer

Wow! Thanks for all of the great feedback and questions. It's a real treat for me. 



Deano3 said:


> ....any ideas what fish
> 
> Dean


I've narrowed it down to 5 or 6 contenders - mostly tetra or rasbora. But always remain flexible. 



Ian Holdich said:


> Any chance of a pic showing the height of the tile please?


Yes mate. I'll post one after this. 



danmullan said:


> The colour of the Ludwigia looks good, do you find the white rendition of the 1500 better for reds?


I think the Ludwigia may change once adapted to its new underwater life. I have heard this species goes pink and keeps the small leaves. I'm looking forward to seeing it develop. I love these new LED tiles! Best LEDs I've used or seen over a planted tank yet, but haven't seen a Kessil in the flesh yet... 



foxfish said:


> ...did you leave the heating mat in place & if so, is it working?


Yes mate. Thanks for the advice on that. I think it could be better than an inline heater. I'm currently trying to reach a steady 23-24C but adjusting a plug-in-timer. I might invest in a external thermostat, but don't really want any gear in the tank.



andyh said:


> ...Will the ludwigia stay that red?


I doubt it mate. Apparently it might go pink.


----------



## George Farmer

Here you can see how high I'm suspending the lighting.


suspended by George Farmer, on Flickr

It's about 60cm from the water surface. This makes it perfect for tank maintenance. It's a real pleasure to work with this set-up. 

The PAR is still almost 50 across most of the substrate, but my CO2 levels are very high and the dense CO2 mist is reaching every plant.

So far most of the plants seem to be adjusting well already after 2 days. I'm losing some melted Ammania - hopefully the remainder will survive.

Hopefully you can get an idea of the CO2 mist from this photo. I'll try to get a video too.


misty by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## foxfish

There are a lot of folk who get really negative & even rude at the mention of heating cables but in the 80s they were the norm & worked in the fact they did heat the tank & did not kill the plants!
I didn't like the the exposed cable running down the corner of my tank so - I installed my cable under the tank enclosed in an tediously cut out 1'' piece of polystyrene!
I am a fan of sumps nowadays so I can conceal my heater but I would use a heat mat if i did not use a sump.
The only issue would be if the mat failed as some of the cheap reptile mats are prone to do!


----------



## Ady34

Hi George, I noted from your above post that having the lights this high makes maintenance easy. Is this the only reason for doing so instead of having them closer to the tank and just reducing the intensity from the controller? I imagine there is a lot of light spill in the room this way rather than closer to the tank......i suppose the benefit being you can save money as you don't need to turn the kitchen light on! Lol
Looking great by the way, and that's a nice mist you have going! Seems a lot of members have issues with the up inline atomisers....what pressure are you using and do you have any issues with adjusting to lower bubble rates?
I know you have a shortlist, but have you considered ruby tetras for this scape, they are very subtle, yet very beautiful little fish with an interesting swimming behaviour.....I have some mixed with my ember tetras and they are great little fish 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## George Farmer

Ady34 said:


> Hi George, I noted from your above post that having the lights this high makes maintenance easy. Is this the only reason for doing so instead of having them closer to the tank and just reducing the intensity from the controller? I imagine there is a lot of light spill in the room this way rather than closer to the tank......i suppose the benefit being you can save money as you don't need to turn the kitchen light on! Lol
> Looking great by the way, and that's a nice mist you have going! Seems a lot of members have issues with the up inline atomisers....what pressure are you using and do you have any issues with adjusting to lower bubble rates?
> I know you have a shortlist, but have you considered ruby tetras for this scape, they are very subtle, yet very beautiful little fish with an interesting swimming behaviour.....I have some mixed with my ember tetras and they are great little fish
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


Hi Ady

I'm just a sucker for bright lights.

Seriously though, I love just being about to get in the tank with my tweezers or scissors pretty much every time I visit the kitchen. I'm very much a "little and often" maintainer, probably bordering on the OCD to be honest.  There is a lot of light spill but we all like it - it makes a real feature of that part of the kitchen.

I've never had an issue with my Up Aqua. My working pressure is about 2.5 bar. I haven't tried lower bubble rates yet but it's never been an issue before. I wonder if them getting clogged up is the issue? I've seen some inline diffusers that have a removable ceramic, but haven't tried one yet.

I've not consider Ruby tetras yet - thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## Ian Holdich

I must borrow that par meter. That looks good George, I reckon that lud will surprise you and stay quite maroon. Mine has at the back, I'm really impressed with the reds under these LEDs. A lot better than the older grobeams/tiles. Presumably your running these at 100%? 

Thanks for the pic mate!


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> I've never had an issue with my Up Aqua. My working pressure is about 2.5 bar. I haven't tried lower bubble rates yet but it's never been an issue before. I wonder if them getting clogged up is the issue? I've seen some inline diffusers that have a removable ceramic, but haven't tried one yet.


Ahh, is your up inline the old style? I think it may be the newer double ceramic ones that cause more issue. plus you have 2.5bar pressure, and I think it's lower pressures that have resulted in difficulties.  




George Farmer said:


> Hi Ady
> 
> I'm just a sucker for bright lights.
> 
> Seriously though, I love just being about to get in the tank with my tweezers or scissors pretty much every time I visit the kitchen. I'm very much a "little and often" maintainer, probably bordering on the OCD to be honest.


I think we could all benefit from some of that OCD....every little helps!



George Farmer said:


> I've not consider Ruby tetras yet - thanks for the heads-up!







George Farmer said:


> it makes a real feature of that part of the kitchen.


.....understatement.....id want a 16hr photoperiod!!!
Cheerio,


----------



## abloomer

All I can say is wow!

Having the patience and skill to produce this is incredible.  I am really looking forward to seeing the finished article.


----------



## ghostsword

It looks amazing..  solid hardscape. 

I would have left it like this:


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys! 



Ian Holdich said:


> I must borrow that par meter. That looks good George, I reckon that lud will surprise you and stay quite maroon. Mine has at the back, I'm really impressed with the reds under these LEDs. A lot better than the older grobeams/tiles. Presumably your running these at 100%?


Yes mate, I'm super-impressed with the 1500 tiles - yes, running at 100% 

Interesting about the Ludwigia, thanks. The Ammania seems to be struggling for some reason. It will be interesting to see if it recovers in time.



Ady34 said:


> Ahh, is your up inline the old style?


Yes mate. Works a treat for me!


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> Yes mate. Works a treat for me!


I have one I purchased from another member a while ago.....should really get it installed to get more equipment out of the tank! I only have 1.5bar non adjustable but hopefully will be ok with the old style.....next time I clean the lily pipes il pop it on 

Are you running ramp up/down periods within your photoperiod, if so what sort of timings are you using and how long is it on 100%?

A nice full set up shot would be very nice to see now too 

Sorry for all the questions.

Cheers George.
Ady.


----------



## clone

As long as I know the UP atomisers start at 2-2.5 bars compared to the polen ones. The old style works just fine for me I read about how radicilous is the 
design of the other "new" with double atomiser, which is actually un necessary.


----------



## clone

Sorry to ask, but do you guys  think, that overpowering the CO2 after DSM will actually make the RO water even softer and acidic so can affect somehow the plants ( in a bad way I mean)?


----------



## cookie3985

I think the volume of comments on this thread speak for themselves George, great scape. It will be very interesting to see how much the plants change after the DSM. This has tempted me to use it mind!


----------



## Ionut Godea

Stunning tank!


----------



## Nick_593

This tank looks awesome. And agree with Ghostworld about it being half full. Looking forward to the progress.


----------



## George Farmer

Cheers guys. 



Ady34 said:


> Are you running ramp up/down periods within your photoperiod, if so what sort of timings are you using and how long is it on 100%?


Hi Ady - I'm running 6 hours at 100% with 1hr ramp up and down either side.



clone said:


> Sorry to ask, but do you guys think, that overpowering the CO2 after DSM will actually make the RO water even softer and acidic so can affect somehow the plants ( in a bad way I mean)?


Good question. I don't think a low pH will bother the plants. Especially if there's plenty of CO2 and other nutrients.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

It's been four days since I've flooded and all is well so far. There's been a slight increase in the soft green diatom-like algae around the mini hairgrass but I'm not worried. It will clear up eventually. Some Ammania is definitely dying off, but there's some hanging in there, so fingers-crossed. I'll get some pics of the algae and Ammania soon.

I'm continuing my 70% daily water changes and CO2 levels are remaining very high.

Here's a few more pics.

*40 litre water change*

40 litre water change by George Farmer, on Flickr

*In-situ*

in-situ day 4 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Inside cabinet*

inside cabinet by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Day 4 full tank shot*

Day 4 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Brian Murphy

Stunning George!


----------



## danmullan

Looks really good, looking forward to seeing your fish choice.

Have you noticed any adverse effects on the filter from having the atomiser on the intake?


----------



## George Farmer

danmullan said:


> Looks really good, looking forward to seeing your fish choice.
> 
> Have you noticed any adverse effects on the filter from having the atomiser on the intake?


Thanks. The inline CO2 is currently on the outlet.


----------



## andyh

danmullan said:


> Looks really good, looking forward to seeing your fish choice.
> 
> Have you noticed any adverse effects on the filter from having the atomiser on the intake?


 
No thread hijack intended.

But i have mine on the intake and it works very well for me indeed. Been on there for over 6 months with no drama at all. No mist in tank, just the occasional cough of bubbles from the filter.


----------



## George Farmer

andyh said:


> No thread hijack intended.
> 
> But i have mine on the intake and it works very well for me indeed. Been on there for over 6 months with no drama at all. No mist in tank, just the occasional cough of bubbles from the filter.


Yes, I meant to elaborate too. I usually have mine on the inlet, because I can't stand seeing a tank full of tiny bubbles spoiling the view! 

In this instance I've out the diffuser on the outlet so I can visually examine the CO2 distribution. Eventually it will go back on the inlet - probably after fish/shrimp are added in a couple of weeks or so.


----------



## viktorlantos

Not bad from an old folk 

That DC looks same yellow as this smiley face 
You do not need that much CO2 with soft water. Especially if that stays soft there which will as you do not have those messy grey stones 

How much is the pH right now? Isn't that too low?


----------



## viktorlantos

Oh the scape looks great anyway. I enjoy a lot to look at your well documented journal. Inspiring!


----------



## Bufo Bill

This tank is already my favourite one of yours George, superb.

All the best from Bill. 


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## George Farmer

viktorlantos said:


> Not bad from an old folk
> 
> That DC looks same yellow as this smiley face
> You do not need that much CO2 with soft water. Especially if that stays soft there which will as you do not have those messy grey stones
> 
> How much is the pH right now? Isn't that too low?


Thanks mate. 

My theory behind the high CO2 at this early stage was to help the plants adapt to their new underwater life after having unlimited CO2 before whilst emersed. I'm not sure if it is a viable theory but it doesn't seem to be doing any harm.

I haven't tested the pH but I'm guessing it is 5 or so. Although I'm using RO, my unit isn't the best and my conductivity is measuring about 120, so I'm guessing there's some KH. 

In other news I've taken out all of the Ammania, thrown the melted and ugly stems, and replanted the healthiest.

I also have some Purigen on the way (thanks, Ian). I've only used this once, years ago, so I'm looking forward to trying it out again. It will sit nicely in the chemical media cartridge in my Fluval G.

While I'm here, who has lots of cherry shrimp they'd like to sell me? I'm not bothered about colours. I'll be after about 40. Please PM me if you can help.


----------



## Vito

very natural, well done George, keep up the good work


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Nothing much more to report at the moment. I'm seeing healthy growth in all plants, except the Ammania that I replanted the other day.

The soft diatom algae that was amongst the grasses seems to be dying back a bit. It's hardly noticeable now.

I'm dropping the CO2 leves gradually every day to eventually reach a safe level for livestock. I'm adding 40 cherry shrimp this Sunday - 50p per shrimp from a local breeder (gotta love Twitter).

It looks promising that I will be getting a new camera fairly soon too - a Canon 6D, so I'm very excited about sharing the results with you all, including some half-decent video, hopefully. 

I've a day off work tomorrow so will try to get some update pics then. Any requests?!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Lets have some updated moss pics!


----------



## plantbrain

I would use  another fine needle stem plant that matches the Red Ludwigia but place it behind that.
Perhaps Rotala Vietnam or wallichii. Allowing it to grow up and canopy on the surface a little.

Looks good


----------



## George Farmer

plantbrain said:


> I would use  another fine needle stem plant that matches the Red Ludwigia but place it behind that.
> Perhaps Rotala Vietnam or wallichii. Allowing it to grow up and canopy on the surface a little.
> 
> Looks good


Thanks Tom. 

Your idea of finer textures is good - 60cm demands these for a decent sense of scale. The Ludwigia may not even stay in their long-term. I am actually considering replacing all of the stems with more grasses to make the layout more naturalistic.  But this is a couple of months away yet, if I do decide to take this route.

I'm probably going to let some of the stems grow emerged too - I really like seeing plant life above water. One day I will do a paludarium.


----------



## Arana

Dam Sexy!!!


----------



## BigTom

Lovely tank but I'm mainly in awe of how tidy the insides of your cabinet are!


----------



## Deano3

Love the inside cabinet pic can I ask what the 2 digital things are at the top in cabinet ? What are they for ? If you don't mind just curious, the rest of the pictures are awesome aswel mate very inspiring 

Thanks for the pictures Dean

Keep em coming


----------



## jack-rythm

Does the cannon 6d take videos?

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## George Farmer

Cheers guys. 



Deano3 said:


> Love the inside cabinet pic can I ask what the 2 digital things are at the top in cabinet ? What are they for ? If you don't mind just curious, the rest of the pictures are awesome aswel mate very inspiring
> 
> Thanks for the pictures Dean
> 
> Keep em coming


Thanks Dean. 

The boxes you can see are TMC Power Controllers for the LED lighting (2x Ultima 1500 GroBeam). 

They allow you to adjust the intensity from 0-100% in 1% increments. You can also ramp up and down the lighting. For instance, I have mine on an 8hr photoperiod, but 1hr to ramp up from 0-100%, 6hrs @ 100%, then 1hr ramp down. I am actually considering a 12hr photoperiod in total but with 4hr ramp up, 4hr full power, 4hr ramp down.

Another good feature is that the settings and correct time remain, even when unplugged for over 6 months!



jack-rythm said:


> Does the cannon 6d take videos?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


Yes.  I will only do basic movie editing though - I don't have the time or money to invest in high-end software etc.


----------



## Gary Nelson

It looks the Business George! Are you adding the shrimp today? They are going to love it  
I really like the photo showing off the all the gubbins underneath the display and very neat too! Something we should show more of, after all, those marine boys do it all the time!


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Gary. 

40 Cherry shrimp going in tomorrow, hopefully. I'm hoping they'll keep the moss nice and clean!

I like a tidy cabinet. There's room for improvement with the messy cables but I can live with it.


inside cabinet by George Farmer, on Flickr 

I've deliberately kept the filter hoses a bit longer than I really need to, as this allows for easier removal of the glassware by 'unhooking' from the tank with the hoses still attached.

I cleaned the glassware for the first time last night - start to finish took less than 10 minutes, so there's no excuse for me not to do it every week. Cleaning the hoses will be done when I can see them getting coated in muck. And I'm sure you know how easy the filter is to maintain. 

I forgot to add that I added some Purigen yesterday too - simply put it neat (no bag required) into the dedicated chemical cartridge by popping off the cover. It's like there's no water in there now - gin clear! Thanks to Ian Holdich for sending it. He's a legend. 

I promise to try and get some new pics uploaded today. Maybe even some shots of algae!


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> I've deliberately kept the filter hoses a bit longer than I really need to, as this allows for easier removal of the glassware by 'unhooking' from the tank with the hoses still attached.
> 
> I forgot to add that I added some Purigen yesterday too - simply put it neat (no bag required) into the dedicated chemical cartridge by popping off the cover. It's like there's no water in there now - gin clear! Thanks to Ian Holdich for sending it. He's a legend.
> 
> I promise to try and get some new pics uploaded today. Maybe even some shots of algae!



Great tip about leaving a little extra hosing for the easy removal of glassware, I cut mine for a perfect fit and it makes removal a slightly more arduous task! Lol
What are the black plastic connectors at the base of the pipes separating the g pipe from the clear.....or is it as simple as that just joints?

That's interesting to know about the purigen going directly into the chemical cartridge no bag required, I thought that the particles would be too small and filter through, even better knowing they don't as you'll get a better flow through them I'd imagine by not being in a bag. How much did you add George? Half full? 

Look forward to more pics, and some of the new shrimp tomorrow hopefully....
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Ady,

I think you're referring to the 16-12mm Eheim reducers. I'm losing some flow but I think it is still plenty. 

I've filled the Purigen almost to the top of the cartridge, using 250ml of Purigen. I'll keep it in its housing when using bleach for re-generation, and obviously de-chlorinate etc. in it too.

Cheers mate


----------



## Gary Nelson

Yes I would of thought the purigen would of found its way out of the slots in the cartridge - I've just 2 of the pre-bagged ones in mine at the moment, can't help thinking it slows flow down a bit though, although it is showing full flow on the LCD screen.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Gary,

I was concerned about the Purigen leaking too. I did a quick test under a running tap and it seemed ok. We will see! 

I'm not sure about the flow restriction via the chemical cartridge. It will be easy enough to check - I will and post back the results. 

Cheers buddy


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

As promised some new pics. It's been 7 days since the mighty flood. 

Starting off with some algae, making this a real warts 'n all journal... 










And some close-ups of mosses, as requested...

*Riccardia. Note the noise (grain) in the background. This is because I'm shooting at ISO 1600 (too lazy to get out my tripod). This kind of shot will be much cleaner with a Canon 6D.* 

riccardia by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Fissidens*

fissidens2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*More Fissidens (and noise)*

fissidens by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Some "rogue" Riccia. No idea where this came from! *

rogue riccia by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Pearling Ludwigia sp. Note the transformation in colour and form from the Day 4 shots. I love the variegated pattern.*

ludwigia pearl by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Ludwigia photographed from above*

ludwigia above by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Safer CO2 levels for livestock, and clean glassware*

drop checker by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Looking through the length of the tank. Note how much detail you can make out in the glassware - uber-clarity!*

left endon by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Growing-in grasses*

centre right by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Arana

That drop checker looks great it just worries me a little that you cant move it deeper to get readings at different depths in the tank, it does look the part though


----------



## HarryRobinson

This tank is looking absolutely awesome George. That last photo is amazing, looks as if you used an underwater camera in the wild and took a picture! The algae, i think, adds to the natural feel of the scape. This scape really reminds me of a nature aquarium documentary i saw on YouTube yesterday, it shows the natural habitat for the fish us fish keepers keep and also many other things such as breeding behavior of some species. Might be of interest to you and the guys on here :



Keep up the good work, stunning!


----------



## George Farmer

Arana said:


> That drop checker looks great it just worries me a little that you cant move it deeper to get readings at different depths in the tank, it does look the part though


I know what you mean mate. But I think this position is pretty good, as it is where there's likely the least circulation. For me a drop checker is just a very rough guide, and I don't use them once I've established an appropriate CO2 bubble rate.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks Harry. Yes, I saw that video the other day. Inspiring stuff and thanks for sharing!


----------



## Arana

George Farmer said:


> I know what you mean mate. But I think this position is pretty good, as it is where there's likely the least circulation. For me a drop checker is just a very rough guide, and I don't use them once I've established an appropriate CO2 bubble rate.


 
I guess if you wanted to get a measurment from substrate level you could always fix a piece of tubing to the bottom and cut to length


----------



## ghostsword

I always found your journals very informative and a pleasure to read and follow. 

It is really nice you take the effort to write and document the process.

Good idea on the TMC, using a 12 hour period, with a ramp up of 4 hours.

One of the reasons I like the TMC tiles so much is the flexibility it offers.

Good work.


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## Ady34

Stunning pictures George.
You must have been using the blender for chopping plants before, hence the riccia......don't worry, we won't tell the Mrs. 

Looks like you've been the ocd constant tinkerer already judging by the graded hairgrasses.....they're starting to look very natural indeed....it's all in the details. 
Looking at the last photo, the ludwigia doesn't look disproportionate to the rest of the scape at all, infact in that photo it adds a great sense of scale and depth, I really like it, will be interesting to see what colour it finally settles on 

Did you reduce your hose size to be able to use more appropriate sized glassware for the tank?

The shrimps will have that algae scoffed in no time 

Cheerio,
Ady


----------



## gary smith

hi george, where did you buy the dc it looks the dogs danglies lol


----------



## Ionut Godea

Your tank look very natural. Congratulations!!


----------



## Gary Nelson

Great pics, it's nice to see that a professional Aquascaper still gets a bit of algae lol - mind you those shrimps will have a great start in their new home and will have that under control in no time


----------



## plantbrain

George Farmer said:


> Thanks Tom.
> 
> Your idea of finer textures is good - 60cm demands these for a decent sense of scale. The Ludwigia may not even stay in their long-term. I am actually considering replacing all of the stems with more grasses to make the layout more naturalistic. But this is a couple of months away yet, if I do decide to take this route.
> 
> I'm probably going to let some of the stems grow emerged too - I really like seeing plant life above water. One day I will do a paludarium.


 
Ah look at it this way, start with some nice color, then slowly reduce and go for essence.
Or start with essence, the slowly add color to it.

Either way, you learn and can explore, the removal/addition adds nice elements to it.
Amano does this a lot, or at least he use to.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looking good George, that algae will soon disappear. Once things settle, and the shrimp get going. Good to see new growth from the moss's as well.


----------



## pepedopolous

Hi George,

Thanks for such a detailed journal. I'm just wondering what you need 2 timers for - one for the solenoid and the other...?


----------



## Gary Nelson

pepedopolous said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Thanks for such a detailed journal. I'm just wondering what you need 2 timers for - one for the solenoid and the other...?



I would say for his heating mat - I'm sure George will clarify this though.


----------



## somethingfishy

wow thats the way to grow moss!! It looks so natural and will just keep getting better.

Thumbs up to blenders and not trying hoplessly to tie knots while holding the moss and wood


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. As always, it's great to hear your feedback and answer your questions. 



Ady34 said:


> Did you reduce your hose size to be able to use more appropriate sized glassware for the tank?


Yes mate. I'm a big fan of the gUSH glassware and I only have the 12mm currently. I'm hoping someone brings out some 'stubby' 17mm glassware at some point... 



pepedopolous said:


> I'm just wondering what you need 2 timers for - one for the solenoid and the other...?


Hi - Gary was right. The other is for the heating mat. It's set for one hour on/one off. I'm currently getting a fairly constant 22C (the Fluval G filter has a current temperature read-out and historical graph). I'll adjust it so it's a bit warmer for when I eventually add some fish.



gary smith said:


> hi george, where did you buy the dc it looks the dogs danglies lol


Hi Gary - It's another gUSH item from UKAPS Sponsor, Aquarium Plant Food UK.

In other news I've added 40+ (mostly juvenile) cherry shrimp today - many thanks to Matt, the Leicester City fan from Wellingborough who is also UKAPS member. 

In worse news the diatom-like algae is getting significantly worse. Probably a consequence of dropping my CO2 levels too quickly. I'm hopeful the shrimp will help address this, and as the tank matures in general, it will sort itself out.

The Ammania has all but melted too. 

I'll try to get some updates pics up soon. Do you fancy some lovely close-ups of pearling algae?! It makes me feel sick! lol


----------



## CMG

Hi George,
First of all, congratulations for your aquascaping abilities!
I found you when i was searching for info on the 1500 tile and i belive you can help me ))
This will be my first real project on freswater:
I'm starting a signature tank like yours and i don't know what light i should use. My ideia is a very clean and simple scape with, mostly, a lot of glossostigma and eleocharis acicularis.
I was wondering on a 4 x 24 Watt T5 from Arcadia or the Giesemann 1x70hqi + 2x8T5 or, my first choice, one,just one, 1500 Ultima whitout controler. Based on your experience, do you think it will work?
I have a Aqua Medic Ocean Light 150w MH, but i belive thats way to strong for a only 30cm height aquarium, isent it? 
Thanks a lot,
Christian


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Christian,

Thanks. 

All of your listed options will grow the plants you wish. What you choose is a matter of taste and expense. T5 give you the best flexibility in terms of colour choice. The 1500 tile is great for low running cost and control, and glitter lines. And the colour is very respectable for LED.

You are right to assume a 150w MH is overkill for this Signature tank unless suspended very high.

Cheers,
George


----------



## foxfish

Hi Christian, you can trust Georges judgment but we also have lots of guys on the forum who love discussing lighting - try looking under the forums lighting section...
Lighting | UK Aquatic Plant Society


----------



## clonitza

Nastiness from wood, yogurt and some decaying plants, keep the ph a bit high (>6.5) to help the bacteria establish and forget the RO water, eventually mix it if you think the GH is too high, I used it only for my iron lately and add tap water directly from the source.  After the ph raise you'll get a diatom bloom that will clear in two weeks, you can suck it with a thin hose. Usually after the diatom bloom comes BBA, kidding' 

Great 'scape btw, lovely ludwigia. Aquasabi stocks 17mm gUSH.

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## CMG

George Farmer said:


> Hi Christian,
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> All of your listed options will grow the plants you wish. What you choose is a matter of taste and expense. T5 give you the best flexibility in terms of colour choice. The 1500 tile is great for low running cost and control, and glitter lines. And the colour is very respectable for LED.
> 
> You are right to assume a 150w MH is overkill for this Signature tank unless suspended very high.
> 
> Cheers,
> George




Hi George, 
So you belive 1x1500 Ultima will be enough for what i need? That helps me  i will either go that way on a MountaRay Bracket or i will make some DIY and convert my AquaMedic pending to 70w. Cheapest solutions and they both shimmer 
Thanks,
Christian


----------



## StevenA

Looking good George, love the warts and all approach to this journal. The open cabinet shot is cool too, love seeing the techie stuff underneath, wish those filters were a tad cheaper to buy  How's the Hottonia doing?


----------



## pompeyfan

Looking very nice george, is that a 'new' variety of ludwigia?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys 



CMG said:


> Hi George,
> So you belive 1x1500 Ultima will be enough for what i need? That helps me


Yes. Please also take a look at Ian's excellent journal to get an idea of how one 1500 unit works...

A New Adventure (goby pics) | UK Aquatic Plant Society



Tourney said:


> How's the Hottonia doing?


Really well mate. The leaf form is beautiful and has changed a bit since the flood - no surprise there, of course. It's growing quite quickly and I think I'll allow it to grow above the surface to see how it looks.



pompeyfan said:


> ...is that a 'new' variety of ludwigia?


Yes. Tropica call is Ludwigia sp. 1. Such a wonderful name! lol

In other news the algae seems to be clearing up a bit, so fingers crossed it's going the right way.

I've removed all of the Ammania; it was all dead or dying. I think I'll replant some Ludwigia cuttings to fill the gap in a few days.

I've not got time to take photos at the moment, but as soon as I do, I will... 

Cheers,
George


----------



## abloomer

looking forward to new pictures!!


----------



## George Farmer

Quick iPhone snap of a cherry shrimp with eggs. 


Cherry shrimp with iPhone by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## LondonDragon

George Farmer said:


> Quick iPhone snap of a cherry shrimp with eggs.


There goes your moss  nice photo and nice coloured cherry


----------



## Mark Evans

Looking great, George!

Good of you to share the algae woes, But as you and I....and pretty much everyone in the hobby actually, know that this is just part of start up issues. It happens.

This layout will look truly immense.

When it starts to develop a bit more, I'll come over and shoot some video with you of you like?


----------



## George Farmer

Mark Evans said:


> Looking great, George!
> 
> Good of you to share the algae woes, But as you and I....and pretty much everyone in the hobby actually, know that this is just part of start up issues. It happens.
> 
> This layout will look truly immense.
> 
> When it starts to develop a bit more, I'll come over and shoot some video with you of you like?


Thanks mate 

I'd love to have you over, Mark.

 Maybe soon I'll have a camera that will shoot video too so you can give me some top tips!


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Developing very nicely George. Unipac pettrified wood is amazing. I have a little scaped mountain scape and I love it so much that it sits unfilled for 4 months already 
Nothing comes close to amano shrimp army for battling algae. In very high numbers they would even eat hair algae. You need high numbers though, about 30 at least.
Another option for diatoms which I used before getting access to unlimited amano battalions is liquid carbon very heavy overdosing for 2-3 days. Pity you introduced cherries already although it can be done with them.
Great photography. Me jelous


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Ed.


----------



## mattb180

Nice to see they are doing well George. 

Bizarrely since giving you a few of the bigger berried Cherries from the Nano it seems to be crawling with juveniles to a far greater extent than before. God knows why. Full tank shot?


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

I managed to find the time to get a couple of shots this evening. No time for macros of shrimp yet - sorry! 

12 days since flooding, and the stems will need pruning soon.

Ian Holdich is kindly sending me some more Ammania to try out after my spectacular failure! 

insitu day 12 by George Farmer, on Flickr


Day 12 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Ian Holdich

Jeezy creezy, that's grown some! That's testament after 12 days...looks great!


----------



## Gary Nelson

Blimey, it has grown! Looks fantastic too - so natural yet so neat, those plant colours really bring out the hard scape as well.


----------



## LondonDragon

Another couple of weeks and its ready to be rescaped, looks awesome George  stunning journal too


----------



## Alastair

looks great George. definitely looks like it is almost due a trim especially the ludwigia sp thats really taken off well


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

I'm really happy with the progress - algae and all!

Because I love the hardscape so much it's entirely possible I will keep it long-term (over 6 months - that's long-term for me!) and change the planting. I've already got a few ideas. 

I think it will take at least another 2-3 months for the moss to achieve the look I'm after.

I'm currently still deciding on fish selection. Top of my list currently are green neon tetras - _Paracheirodon simulans. _They stay small enough and shoal tightly. There's enough red in the planting and hardscape, and the blue will really pop with this TMC LED lighting.

Other fish suggestions more than welcome!


----------



## Deano3

all i can say is stunning mate, well done looking amazing 

Dean


----------



## ghostsword

How did it become like that? WOW, that is fast growth.. amazing..


----------



## joey24dirt

Wow this setup looks brill!


----------



## Dan Walter

That's some really impressive growth in just 12 days and a very nice set up - all round.  Are you planning on giving it a trim soon?


----------



## greenink

Was wondering why I like this hardscape so much. And now I know.



It's basically a masterclass in how to break every rule just enough to make it interesting. (Only learnt this by accidentally copying it for my latest). Hope you don't mind this analysis George! It's obviously just one person's take, particularly the red arrows. But I thought interesting.


----------



## George Farmer

Nice drawings, Mike. Not sure what they mean but I'm glad you've had fun with it! Lol 

Just kidding. You raise an interesting point and it is reassuring that I suppose my natural eye for composition is ok. 

Not much to update on the tank.

Ian has kindly sent me some Ammania, and a small qty of HC and Ranunculus that I've planted. Not sure how they'll do or if they're keepers but worth a try.

The algae is definitely subsiding and the shrimp seem a lot more settled with many more on display now. I think I may even have babies already, I saw a tiny shrimp about 2mm long last night. Not sure how quick they grow, as they've only been in there 4 days.

I'm going to prune the Ludwigia and Hottonia this weekend. I'm tempted to go fish shopping too but I think I'll wait another week whilst the algae is getting under control.

I'm also selling my 10-24mm lens (Canon-fit) so please check out the Sales sub-forum if you're interested. (Shameless plug - sorry!)


----------



## charlie

Great journal George. I love your attention to detail, your willingness to share ideas, successes and failures ( obviously that does not happen that often). Keep up the good work.
Charlie


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Green neons would fit this scape brilliantly.


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I managed to find the time to get a couple of shots this evening. No time for macros of shrimp yet - sorry!
> 
> 12 days since flooding, and the stems will need pruning soon.
> 
> Ian Holdich is kindly sending me some more Ammania to try out after my spectacular failure!
> 
> insitu day 12 by George Farmer, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Day 12 by George Farmer, on Flickr


Hi George,
i noticed you said you took these shots in the evening. Your dc looks quite green, rather than lime, was just wondering if this is a normal colour or if you are running slightly lean c02 whilst the shrimp are settling? If so have any lighting adjustments been made?
There has been some amazing growth in this tank, it just looks stunning....the pros just know how to grow 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Ian Holdich

mikeappleby said:


> Was wondering why I like this hardscape so much. And now I know.
> 
> 
> 
> It's basically a masterclass in how to break every rule just enough to make it interesting. (Only learnt this by accidentally copying it for my latest). Hope you don't mind this analysis George! It's obviously just one person's take, particularly the red arrows. But I thought interesting.



Great post there mike! Really interesting.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys 

Ady - no flies on you is there?! The drop checker is usually more lime green but I removed it for maintenance in the tank prior to photography. Also the lights are lower down in the photo than usual because when they're higher the reflections are a PITA for shooting. 

For reference the CO2 is set to 1BPS using a Fluval bubble counter (best bubble counter I've owned - really easy to use), and 12mm Up Aqua inline diffuser. I'm using a TMC V2 Pro regulator which has a preset working pressure of about 3 bar. I have the CO2 come on very early (8am) because there's quite a lot of ambient light in my kitchen. Lights are on full wack by 3pm, off totally by 10pm.

I think I'm settled on green neon tetras but finding some at a reasonable cost could be a challenge.

Out of interest what's the current thinking of adding Amano shrimp with cherry shrimp? Will they affect breeding of the cherries?

I should be able to get in a decent photo session tomorrow...

Thanks again for all the interest. It's really appreciated and helps to keep me motivated.


----------



## plantbrain

I use Amano's with all my RCS, they are fine together.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Not many photos this weekend, but I did get a couple of before and after this aquascape's first proper trim - mainly the Ludwigia and Hottonia.

Here's before -


day 21 before trim by George Farmer, on Flickr

And after - 


day 21 after trim by George Farmer, on Flickr

Many thanks to Ian for sending me the Ammania that you can see here. You can also see the Ludwigia and Hottonia stems post-prune. It will be interesting to see what colour the Ludwigia turns. To be honest I don't see the stems staying in here long-term, but it's fun to experiment and practice pruning techniques. 


end after trim day 21 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Overall I'm happy with the progress so far. The algae has all but disappeared. The shrimp seem to be happy grazing amongst the mosses and soil - I think I'll need some proper food soon. I am seeing occasional opaque white eggs lying about. I assume these are unfertilised?  I have spotted some tiny shrimplets too which was a lovely surprise after less than a week of being introduced.

Plant growth is good, as you can probably make out. The E. tenellus is starting to establish nicely in the midground - one to keep an eye on as it's quite invasive. All the hairgrasses are doing well and the Lilaeopsis is also establishing well. The mosses are growing slowly but surely too. 

I'm still considering fish choice but am determined not to rush into things.


----------



## tim

Hi George it's looking fantastic good to see how low you trim the stems, the shrimp eggs will have been fertilised as they only move down from the saddle once this happens and in my experience these can still hatch, really is a fantastic looking scape


----------



## charlie

Just a thought but could the opaque egg shells be ones that the shrimplets have hatched from, especially as you have new babies in there ?


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

It's been a couple of weeks since a comprehensive update, so here we are... 

Quite a lot has happened in the last week. Not all good news, but no major dramas either.

_First the not so good news...._

The Ammania refuses to grow in my set-up for some reason. Maybe it needs harder water (more Mg, Ca?), as I'm using 100% RO which comes out at about conductivity 50.

The Hottonia looked dreadful after its big prune, so I removed it completely. It was never really going to be a long-term plant, so I'm not too fussed. At least it lives on in a fellow UKAPS member's tank! 

I've moved some pruned Ludwigia to fill in the gap on the right, and a few E. tenellus off-runners to fill in where the Ammania was. The Ludwigia can't seem to make its 'mind' up with reagrds its colour - changing from red to green, and now back to red! As I've already said, I doubt it will be a keeper.

I've been experiencing small amounts of BBA, presumably due to me fiddling with CO2 so much, and doing large water changes in the middle of the photoperiod. Hopefully this will die off with some liquid carbon dosing and better CO2 management. We will see...

_And the better news...._

I've decided on a name for this aquascape - _"Rooted in Nature"_.  It speaks for itself really, with the wood replicating tree roots growing over the rocks, amongst grasses and moss. And the whole aquascape concept being based on the Nature Aquarium philosophy. 

The grasses and mosses are all doing well and mixing like I hoped. I'm still considering my longer-term plan for background grasses. Maybe E. acicularis and Echinodorus latifolious (like a bigger tenellus), or some C. helferi.

I've added a few more cherry shrimp from my LFS to diversify the bloodline (don't I sound clever!?) lol

And I've decided on fish... I've always been a fan of Ember tetras and their small size gives them a good sense of scale, and colour harmonises with the stone. I've added just eight for now.

Anyway, enough words... 

*Full-tank shot*

Day 28 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Left*

Day 28 situ by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Above*

Day 28 above by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Ember tetras through left side*

Embers side by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Grasses mixed and Riccardia on wood*

grasses1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Grasses, wood, stone and moss*

grasses wood stone by George Farmer, on Flickr

*More mixed grasses and hardscape*

grasses wood stone2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Close-up of Fissidens and Riccardia*

riccardia macro by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Ember tetras*

Embers shoal by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Another shot of the Embers*

Embers shoal2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Mark Evans

Exceptional, George.

One of your more 'natural' looking layouts.

It looks different to how I imagined it to look.


----------



## George Farmer

There's a lot of shrimp in here but they're quite tricky to photograph. 

I like this shot because you can see tiny pieces of Riccardia starting to take hold, as well as the shrimp looking nice and red.


RCS 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## George Farmer

Mark Evans said:


> Exceptional, George.
> 
> One of your more 'natural' looking layouts.
> 
> It looks different to how I imagined it to look.


Thanks mate. 

I'm interested - how did you imagine it to look?


----------



## Dave Pierce

Hi George, Big fan of this layout.

I agree it's a very natural layout. The root looks old, and the grass looks fresh and green, like grass you see starting to grow during spring. A great contrast and for the time of year! Everything looks in proportion and to scale,  and as it would look in nature. 

I must say its great to look at work like this, I've learnt a lot with my current aquascape and from people on this forum. I have already made a million mistakes with my 1st scape but only to be learnt from in future. Hopefully one day I will be able to get it right first time as you have!

Looking forward to more updates.

Cheers,

Dave


----------



## fish fodder

Massively impressed!!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looks great, and the embers suit this scape really well. It's a shame about the amania, but that's just a small thing as tbh this scape looks good without stems at the back tbh. Just to echo what Dave said, it looks very spring like. The best time of the year.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Lovely photos, and it looks great! The tank looks like a cube of nature with the water full to the brim....  The green neons would of looked nice, but the embers look fantastic! and like mark says, it looks so natural - when the mosses fill out its going to be a show stopper


----------



## Ady34

Hi George,
have to say the 'grasses' are looking great and very natural. The title suits perfectly and because of this i feel that, although you are against the idea, some larger leaved plants will work well at the rear to give a sense of dock leaves or nettles in amongst the grass, as in nature  Maybe too old school or simple but hygrophila compact, even a small echinodorus like reni or such like would look great, maybe as you say with some taller grass like species to blend and some cyperus growing emersed would finish things off beautifully imo. Ideally if you could think of a stem with a slightly darker green oval leaf form that would be perfect to mimic the look i mentioned....maybe even anubias mixed in amongst the wood and rock tops with grass backdrop again could work even better. Just my thoughts, of course, everyone sees things differently.
Great that your being so honest about the not so goods....the rest looks superb though! I love the embers, ruby tetras go so nicely with these ....i wish i could get a decent photo of mine.
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Alastair

George Farmer said:


> There's a lot of shrimp in here but they're quite tricky to photograph.
> 
> I like this shot because you can see tiny pieces of Riccardia starting to take hold, as well as the shrimp looking nice and red.
> 
> 
> RCS 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr



This shot is fantastic George. Very natural. Tanks looking great


----------



## Mark Evans

Somehow, I've missed the photos on page 22. That was what I was expecting...with the stems.

I've imagined this layout being quite 'sporadic' when it comes to plant placement...especially the stems. A few sprigs here and a few there. A bit wild almost.

The Amania sp. bonsai is a great plant for this. It works great in the foreground, what with its small size. Nip the tops out and put 3 or 4 together to accent certain areas.

It's also pretty rapid to recover after trimming.

I see the red turning green! Welcome to my world. Recent discussions with Michael @ Tropica still leave me confused about how my red plants turn green.

There's a layout at Tropica which Michael has produced, which contains amazing hues of, reds, oranges etc. here's a sample of that tank.

I have to be carful in not showing the whole thing, as there's a few 'secrets' in their. 


red by saintly's pics, on Flickr


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks for all the lovely feedback all, it's really appreciated, as always. 

Ade - you're such a thinking-man's aquascaper. I really love the way you have a different perspective to stuff and make me consider other options. Thanks very much for your input mate.

Mark - thanks for your reply mate.  You may have not read about my bad experience with Ammania - it simply refuses to grow in this tank!   BTW, those reds are flippin' unreal - almost too red!

One of the advantages to having this tank in my kitchen is that I can get a sneaky photo shoot done whilst pretending to be preparing the Sunday roast. Don't tell the missus - she thinks I was working really hard in there! lol

Note the shrimp poo in the 3rd photo...  


RCS 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


RCS 3 by George Farmer, on Flickr


RCS 4 by George Farmer, on Flickr


RCS 5 by George Farmer, on Flickr


RCS 6 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Ian Holdich

That riccardia is gonna look awesome when it gets going!


----------



## tim

you gotta love the eyes on those shrimp, some awsome photography there george


----------



## greenink

That 4 shot is incredible. Looks like an album cover.


----------



## LondonDragon

Looking great George    you just need some better quality shrimp in there 



George Farmer said:


> You may have not read about my bad experience with Ammania - it simply refuses to grow in this tank!


I had the same issue with this plant, it was growing ok after planting and then after the first trim it just died off, very bizarre.



George Farmer said:


> Close-up of Fissidens and Riccardia riccardia macro by George Farmer, on Flickr


This is my favoutite photo, just love how the mosses are growing in the wood


----------



## Deano3

Love the shrimp pics and looks great and very coming with time of year like others have said, keep the updates coming as learning so much

Thanks dean


----------



## Keith Parry

Hi George,
I am new to aquascaping, still at the research stage, having kept South American Cichlid's for the past few years. I have been in touch with TMC and they have given me some very valuable information. I have a query regarding light levels and they suggested I contact you via this forum. I am probably going to invest in the 60 x 45 x 45 Signature aquarium with 2 x 1500ND TMC tiles and I am curious to know more about this Par reading. In an earlier conversation on this forum you said....... ' I'll check the PAR before deciding what power and height to run them'......... How do I check PAR, I assume I will need a specialised meter of some description to do this and also, what is the optimum Par reading for an aquarium of this size. I will start with the easier plants to grow but would like to think that I can progress to the more difficult ones at a later stage. Thank you.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Keith,

Welcome to UKAPS. 

You could probably grow most plants with just one 1500 tile at 100%, suspended using the MountaRay mountain bracket (see Ian Holidich's excellent journal, "A New Adventure".) If you're suspending by other means then have it fairly close to the surface.

You check PAR with a PAR meter. The Apogee models are the 'standard' and cost around £300 I believe. However, the Seneye Reef has a built-in PAR capability (you need a PC too) - I think these are about £90.

The configuration above would probably give you about 20-25 PAR at the substrate, enough to grow most plants if other conditions are ideal.

Cheers,
George


----------



## Bufo Bill

George, I love it when we get offered a big juicy post like above, and when it's a tank like yours it's like when your favourite band brought out a new song when you're a kid! Your photography  is great and those lovely natural mosses make my heart sing to be honest.
You watch those cherry shrimp, I was able to upgrade my filter from the numbers I flogged to the LFS. It wasn't one like yours though!

Many thanks from Bill.


----------



## JEK

This is turning out great, George. Very serene and relaxing to watch! The pics look great as always, but I would love to see a video of the tank too.


----------



## George Farmer

JEK said:


> This is turning out great, George. Very serene and relaxing to watch! The pics look great as always, but I would love to see a video of the tank too.


Thanks. 

Hopefully I'll be getting a new camera soon so will be able to get some video.


----------



## Keith Parry

I have the Panasonic HC-X800 and it really is superb. Thank you for your answers to my questions about light and PAR levels. I am struggling to find Ian Holidich's journal, "A New Adventure. I have given more thought to this and reason that I am probably better off suspending my tiles as you have. Surely better to have 2 @ a lower % than 1 @ 100%. It would also give me greater flexibility. What do you think?


----------



## charlie

Keith Parry said:


> I have the Panasonic HC-X800 and it really is superb. Thank you for your answers to my questions about light and PAR levels. I am struggling to find Ian Holidich's journal, "A New Adventure. I have given more thought to this and reason that I am probably better off suspending my tiles as you have. Surely better to have 2 @ a lower % than 1 @ 100%. It would also give me greater flexibility. What do you think?


Keith,
Go to forum, click journal to enter journal forum. The journal you are looking for is eight down , a new adventure by ian holditch. Excellent journal

Charlie


----------



## Keith Parry

Charlie,
Many thanks for that, I am still feeling my round this site.
Keith


----------



## John Starkey

A very nice looking scape George,nothing too taxing after your spell oversea's.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

I found myself with some spare time this afternoon so managed to get the camera out. 

The tank has been flooded for almost one month now. I'm still content with the overall progress - especially the way the mosses are developing.  The grasses are due a trim soon and the E. tenellus is really starting to get going. This will be one to control.

The fish and shrimp seem happy. All feeding well and active - lots of baby shrimp cutting about.

It took me a while to dial in a suitable CO2 level. I really don't like to see sluggish livestock as a result of CO2 intoxication, but at the same time love to grow plants quite fast without algae. Anyway, the CO2 is bang-on 1 bubble per second, which sees the drop checker a shade darker than lime green. There's virtually no algae, except some minor BBA on the wood that's remaining under control, even without liquid carbon (I've run out).

I have some more plans with regards the background. Next week I'll probably be adding some new plants - so stay tuned!

Anyway, here are the latest pics.


one month full by George Farmer, on Flickr


embers pair by George Farmer, on Flickr


moss wood rock combi by George Farmer, on Flickr


angle above by George Farmer, on Flickr


embers shoal 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


insitu one month by George Farmer, on Flickr

And a dodgy iPhone video, but you get the idea...


----------



## Ian Holdich

Love that "above angle" shot. Those moss's are also coming on a treat. Overall it's looking great! 

What are your plans on upping the number of tetras or are you happy with the amount in there?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

looks awesome george, the moss looks so natural applied this way and only gets better.
Surely you dont keep the tank this full all the time??


----------



## Aron_Dip

Awesome george.. The moss are really starting to take off ... Love it mate


----------



## charlie

Great series of last photos. Looking forward to what you might have in store . . .


----------



## Stu Worrall

thats looking the biz now george. will be even more once the ricacardia grows in.

Are yo thinking of putting any stems back in at the back or leaving as is?


----------



## Gary Nelson

Lovely that mate! The moss is coming on a treat now and it looks like your DSM has paid off  very natural looking too as it grows.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



Ian Holdich said:


> What are your plans on upping the number of tetras or are you happy with the amount in there?


Not sure yet mate. I'll see how the new plants work out and go from there. Either more of the same, or other small tetras.



Iain Sutherland said:


> Surely you dont keep the tank this full all the time??


Pretty much, yes. But I usually have a cover glass fitted to prevent evaporation and help keep the temp up a bit (I'm running a heating mat). It also prevents any suicidal shrimp/fish.



stuworrall said:


> Are yo thinking of putting any stems back in at the back or leaving as is?


Got a few plans for the back, middle and right... Not 100% sure yet. They involve Rotala sp. "green", C. helferi and Linderia rotundifolia.

This weekend I'm going to do a major grass prune so may be able to get another update soon. I will try to get some nice moss macros too.

Thanks again,
George


----------



## Stu Worrall

those stems sound great.  I love rotala when it really bushes up!  Not tried the Linderia rotundifolia


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Looking great, still amzed how good that method with yoghurt turned out and how quickly rock and wood get that natural feel with coral and fiss. As mentioned to you before did not expect coral to attach so well


----------



## faizal

Hi George,..just finished reading your entire journal. Just want to say that it's been really refreshing to see the complete "warts" at all accounts of it. It's wonderful & encouraging for us to see how even the great ones do it. Learnt a lot.


----------



## LondonDragon

Never been a fan of DSM in the past but the method for the mosses turned pretty impressive and very natural, proved done correctly for the right reasons it can work pretty well, but I still don't see the point of DSM for standard plants, just flood it, turn up the CO2 and the plants will adapt quickly anyway and you will get better results in the same time frame.

Once the grass at the front gets a little more compact it will look even better, now time to wait for those stems to recover 

Congrats George one of your best works


----------



## George Farmer

LondonDragon said:


> Never been a fan of DSM in the past but the method for the mosses turned pretty impressive and very natural, proved done correctly for the right reasons it can work pretty well, but I still don't see the point of DSM for standard plants, just flood it, turn up the CO2 and the plants will adapt quickly anyway and you will get better results in the same time frame.


Thanks mate. I agree. It's been nice to try DSM, and it's worked well for the mosses, but I doubt I'll bother using it for anything else in future.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Earlier today I did a few bits of maintenance and thought I'd take a few pics to share.

*Moved the Ludwigia from the right to replace the empty area leftover from the unsuccessful Ammania. The empty space on the right will probably mostly contain Rotala sp. 'green'...*

moved ludwigia by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Cleaned glassware and filter hoses...*

clean glassware by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Water change (40 litres) using RO water... *

water change 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Refilling using my special red colander...*

water change 3 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Ian Holdich

I think rotala will sit just right in that corner or something like Hemianthus micranthemoides. The hm might do better as its a little harder when it comes to chopping it ime. Great pics George!


----------



## charlie

George Farmer said:


> Pretty much, yes. But I usually have a cover glass fitted to prevent evaporation and help keep the temp up a bit (I'm running a heating mat).



Years ago we all used to have corrugated plastic drip trays over the top of our tanks that degraded over time. You have said that you are using a glass top for your tank George, do you find this has any effect on your lighing for the tank ? I would imagine not, provided it is kempt clear of dust etc. But would be interested to hear your experience.
Thanks 
Charlie


----------



## George Farmer

Ian Holdich said:


> I think rotala will sit just right in that corner or something like Hemianthus micranthemoides. The hm might do better as its a little harder when it comes to chopping it ime. Great pics George!


Thanks mate. 

I'm hoping to get the Rotala 'green' to droop forward over the wood and rock, a bit like this...








charlie said:


> Years ago we all used to have corrugated plastic drip trays over the top of our tanks that degraded over time. You have said that you are using a glass top for your tank George, do you find this has any effect on your lighing for the tank ? I would imagine not, provided it is kempt clear of dust etc. But would be interested to hear your experience.
> Thanks
> Charlie


I think there's a bit of light loss, especially as the condensation builds, but it's not enough to stop the plants from growing!


----------



## charlie

George Farmer said:


> I think there's a bit of light loss, especially as the condensation builds, but it's not enough to stop the plants from growing!


Thanks for that George, obviously not stopping the plants from growing  . You do have plenty light to get away with losing a bit aswell .

The rotala with look lush if you can acheive a similar effect to the photo. Looking forward to the results.


----------



## Ian Holdich

That would make a great effect...


I miss my amano book...Evans has mine.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

I've never really nailed the use of stems in a Nature Aquarium aquascape, so it would be nice to see it work. This is probably my best effort, that I almost totally forgot about until I Googled "rotala aquascape". The Rotala is too vertical here - I need it to creep forward. I wonder if higher or lower lighting will achieve this - any ideas?





A couple more pics from today. I've lowered the lighting height for the photos.


insitu above by George Farmer, on Flickr


shrimp on wood by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## OllieNZ

George Farmer said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I've never really nailed the use of stems in a Nature Aquarium aquascape, so it would be nice to see it work. This is probably my best effort, that I almost totally forgot about until I Googled "rotala aquascape". The Rotala is too vertical here - I need it to creep forward. I wonder if higher or lower lighting will achieve this - any ideas?


 
Plants tend to grow towards the brightest light, so maybe move your light unit forwards if you can?


----------



## Iain Sutherland

Amano's stems have confused me ever since i tried growing them, I have convinced myself that he replants them like that for photos 
I look forward to seeming how you do it George.  This is another great Farmer 'tutorial journal'...much respect.


----------



## charlie

Iain Sutherland said:


> Amano's stems have confused me ever since i tried growing them, I have convinced myself that he replants them like that for photos
> I look forward to seeming how you do it George.  This is another great Farmer 'tutorial journal'...much respect.


Ha ha, love the idea that amano re plants just for the photo. That is probably how he escapes from algae issues aswell  I used to think skate board tricks were never landed, just looked insane in the photos in mags until i started skating and met up with guys who could pull and land kick flips etc.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

oh i do those kick jump things everyday, its the plants that are the problem 

I often wonder with the iaplc entries how many are actually grown as the photos show?  Is it common practice to move bits around to create the image... add a few bolbititus leaves here, a fresh clump of pinnatifida there etc...


----------



## Ian Holdich

Having observed amanos stems in videos, he really can get his rotala etc etc to grow this way. I personally think he cuts his stems in steps. The man can do things with plants that many of us dream about doing.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

camera trickery 
only another 23 years of experience needed then


----------



## clonitza

Yes George you need a bit more light to make it grow horizontally, trimming it often in the right places plays a big role too, you can also check Aqua Journal december (EN) issue for some nice tips.


----------



## clonitza

Here's one example: 2011 AGA Aquascaping Contest - Entry #17


----------



## Stu Worrall

Ive always thought it was the way you trim the bush (ahem). ie like topiary so you'd trim it more vertically at the front (if that makes any sense?)

great photos by the way, that moss keeps getting better in each shot


----------



## Ian Holdich

stuworrall said:


> Ive always thought it was the way you trim the bush (ahem). ie like topiary so you'd trim it more vertically at the front (if that makes any sense?)
> 
> great photos by the way, that moss keeps getting better in each shot




Yeah, that's what my thinking was, so he cuts at a 45 degree angle. Quite difficult to do in itself.


----------



## tim

Ian Holdich said:


> Yeah, that's what my thinking was, so he cuts at a 45 degree angle. Quite difficult to do in itself.


Easy if your double jointed or can stand behind your tank to trim, not a luxury many of us have


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys.

Stu - do you mean cutting the actual stem itself at 45 degrees? 

My assumption was that wouldn't really matter, as the new growth come from the nodes beneath the cut.


----------



## Stu Worrall

No I meant with a bunch of stems and cutting down them at a high angle. When they grow back the light would then be on the outer edge so they'll grow towards you. Bit like a tree on a cliff growing outwards


----------



## viktorlantos

Need high light to achieve the nice effect with Rotala sp. Green George. The one you linked in the vertical one is a low light tank maybe a low tech too (no co2)
One of the latest tank which i am working on has Sp Green too. On this pic you can see how the stem buds are moving to the front. It has a nice root system so if the plant can attach to any other plants soil etc, the rest of the buds will follow.
All sizes | Forest Scape Maintenance | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

One of my fav plant actually used here too in the back
All sizes | IAPLC 2012 entries Rank #67 CBAP 2012 Foreign 1st | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Quick update.  I've added three new plants to the background - Cyperus helferi, Rotala sp. "Green" and Lindernia roundifolia. I actually left the Rotala and Lindernia in their pots!


new Tropica background plants by George Farmer, on Flickr


water change new plants by George Farmer, on Flickr

And some new fish - Bororas maculatus donated by Dan Crawford.


new fish by George Farmer, on Flickr

I'll try to get some more pics up soon.


----------



## George Farmer

Quick phone video showing new background plants through left side.


----------



## MARKCOUSINS

Tank is looking in good nick indeed!Feed the Bororas some live baby brine shrimp they will turn bright red in no time.I have tried other foods/live foods with my shoal of around 40 but nothing compares to live baby brine shrimp they love them and they glow afterwards!Cheers mark


----------



## Ian Holdich

Love helferi, creates a great effect in the water. I think you've nailed it with the plant choice here mate!


----------



## Dave Pierce

Lovely plants George, there really going to help finish it off. Looking forward to the pictures, always so good!


----------



## George Farmer

Here you can see the Ludwigia is staying a nice red.


front left 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


centre2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

I think the stems have really added depth to the layout now. I'm really pleased with the look so far.


----------



## faizal

George, have you taken any PAR readings in this tank yet? If so what are the PAR ranges at the substrate level please?


----------



## George Farmer

faizal said:


> George, have you taken any PAR readings in this tank yet? If so what are the PAR ranges at the substrate level please?


Hi,

Yes, the PAR ranges from 30 to 100 in the corners depending on how high the lights are. Recently I've moved the lights closer to see how the stems react. It's probably 60-70 at the substrate now.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

I thought I'd share this shot of the CO2 mist coming from Up Aqua inline diffuser. 1 bubble per second with Fluval bubble counter.


CO2 mist by George Farmer, on Flickr

And a shrimp...


rcs 22 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## pepedopolous

Lovely photos! So, have you decided against having the diffuser on the inlet side of the filter?

I'm quite happy with this system but I think I could possibly add more CO2 if it weren't for the filter (JBL e701GL) 'burping' every now and then.

I think it's great that you're specifying the type of bubble counter. Either I have a leak, or my bubble counter (UP Aqua) makes considerably smaller bubbles than yours!

Cheers,

P


----------



## charlie

Love the shrimp pic.


----------



## jon32

Still watching with interest  Moss is going great in that shot above. Great work, tank looks very natural looking.


----------



## George Farmer

pepedopolous said:


> Lovely photos! So, have you decided against having the diffuser on the inlet side of the filter.


Thanks 

Yes, CO2 is on outlet for now. The bubbles are barely visible usually. In the photo I've used a concentrated light source directly over the lily pipe which highlights the bubbles.


----------



## George Farmer

Another couple of shrimp photos. 


rcs 23 by George Farmer, on Flickr


rcs 21 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## CMG

Very nice macros


----------



## plantnoob

fantastic tank!


----------



## Ady34

George Farmer said:


> centre2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


 
Hi George,
new stems look great, but wow, that moss is looking so natural  .
Sorry for spamming your journal, but its growth very much reminded me of this moss stump i photographed whilst away on holiday. Not a great photo by any stretch of the imagination, but thought id post it to illustrate how natural your yoghurt blended painted on moss looks compared to mother nature herself:






Cheerio,
Ady.

EDIT: Sorry for the massive photo


----------



## NanoJames

Wow, lovely tank! I really like those micro rasboras, I wish I could get them in my area. I also really like the carpet of Eleocharis sp. Mini it has spread very nicely!


----------



## viktorlantos

Cheers George,
The mosses on the woods looks insane  Something i have to try it for sure.
Coming along nicely


----------



## hydrophyte

Really great pictures George!


----------



## fish fodder

Collecting my "signature" on saturday and just looking at this wonderfully inspirational thread again


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Will try to get a bit of an update soon - things a bit hectic here.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Just a quick update... 

The stems are doing well - due a prune soon. I'll re-plant Ludiwigia cuttings to get create more density.  The moss is really taking off now too.


10 weeks by George Farmer, on Flickr


maculatus by George Farmer, on Flickr


2 months right by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Ady34

Looks fantastic now George, cant believe how quickly it has filled in to what now looks like a complete finished scape....Awesome! 
Your new stem additions at the rear have grown at an astonishing rate, the moss is looking great and the addition of the hc in the foreground highlights tones of the lighter greens of your rear stems, a subtle but nice touch.
This picture is a perfect advert for modern planted aquaria imo  Now all we need to invent is wireless lighting units!


George Farmer said:


> 10 weeks by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## viktorlantos

Only 2 month... wow. Great plant health George.
The initial algae issue when you filled the tank disappeared quikly. Thougth the moss will have problems for a longer time, but it wasn't the case.
Now the moss looks awesome really and the scape too.

This is probably the 2nd fav from you now. Iwagumi was the all-time, but this looks also natural and something else than you did before. Pretty one!


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Here's a few macros I took this evening. I know how to have fun on a Saturday night! lol

*Hyphessobrycon amandae*

ember and fissidens by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Bororas maculatus*

bororas maculatus by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Spot the BBA!*

shrimp ricc bba by George Farmer, on Flickr


shrimp hairgrass by George Farmer, on Flickr

*Pearling Rotala sp. "Green"*

rotala pearling by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## NanoJames

Are those red rili shrimp? They also look like RCS but they have some clear patches...


----------



## Ian Holdich

Great captures George! Love the tetra shot!


----------



## George Farmer

NanoJames said:


> Are those red rili shrimp? They also look like RCS but they have some clear patches...


Not sure. I've had Rili shrimp but the banding was a lot more prominent. My guess is that this is a product of Rili and an RCS breeding at some point, maybe a few generations ago. The only shrimp I've added to this tank were 40 juveniles from a local hobbyist about 8 weeks ago, and he didn't own any Rili shrimp, as far as I know.  

Maybe I've inadvertently bred my own line of shrimp. I'm going to call it Neocaridina sp. "Georgio Farmani".


----------



## justin85

Tank looks absolutely stunning!  

I know you probably have stated this somewhere already, but what filter are you using?


----------



## George Farmer

justin85 said:


> Tank looks absolutely stunning!
> 
> I know you probably have stated this somewhere already, but what filter are you using?


Thank you. 

I'm using a Fluval G3 with Seachem Purigen in the chemical media cartridge and gUSH 12mm nano glassware, and 12mm clear hose.

The Fluval G filters have received a lot of criticism but I've never had an issue and love them for their ease of maintenance. I also find the temperature and conductivity read-outs and histograms useful.


----------



## NanoJames

George Farmer said:


> Maybe I've inadvertently bred my own line of shrimp. I'm going to call it Neocaridina sp. "Georgio Farmani".


 Haha, brilliant mate. George Farmer: Producing finest shrimp since about 2 months ago...


----------



## justin85

Seems to be doing a great job on your tank, the water is crystal clear.


----------



## George Farmer

Just pruned some Riccardia. Never done that before. It felt good.

Big stem trim soon. My aim to to have this ready for the IAPLC in 60 days...

Maybe Mark can photograph it for me too!


----------



## fish fodder

Do you have it covered? If not have you had any fish/shrimp jump out?


----------



## George Farmer

fish fodder said:


> Do you have it covered? If not have you had any fish/shrimp jump out?


I have a 60x45cm cover glass. Opti-white, toughened with polished edges. £25 from my local glazier.


----------



## fish fodder

George Farmer said:


> I have a 60x45cm cover glass. Opti-white, toughened with polished edges. £25 from my local glazier.



Ok cool, I thought you just used that while you were using the dsm.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

I did a big pruning session yesterday evening. Chopped back all of the plants, even the mosses. I was quite brutal actually. Followed up with a glassware and hose clean, and big water change.

Unfortunately my fire extinguisher CO2 also run out and I've no spare, so I've rigged up a Tropica nano kit with JBL solenoid. I really like the Tropica diffuser with the built-in non-return valve and bubble counter. The ceramic disc produces a very fine mist equally from the surface and is easily removable for cleaning. It appears to be the same as the Fluval disc.

I'm running 2 BPS and hope it is ample to prevent any plant health or algae issues. The flow from the gUSH outlet picks up the mist really well and virtually no micro bubbles hit the water surface. I left it on over night and the drop checker is reading a decent lime green, with shrimp and fish active, so fingers crossed. I will probably get around to switching back to the FE and inline diffuser this weekend.


insitu post prune 2 months by George Farmer, on Flickr


tropica CO2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


tropica CO2 insitu by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Pedro Rosa

George,

Your tank is an inspiration to us all. What you've done in two months is awesome.
I wish you good luck in IAPLC 2013. Certainly a great entry!

Pedro.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

What a beauty. I will be using youghurt method with same plants but not blended together in next scape also after such a great result. Plus hairgrass carpet blended with hydrocotyle japan. What a great easy plant hairgrass is.
Tropica set looks cool, pity they cannot do bigger bottles due to regulations though.
Good luck in IAPLC, I have a feeling it will be strong entry.


----------



## tim

avid follwer of this journal george, and i must comment on how natural the moss looks on the wood and rocks, gives it an aged look well beyond 12 months let alone 2 months, a real slice of nature. Top job the uk scene missed so much during your absence


----------



## NanoJames

Looking lovely as always George! The Fissidens and Riccardia especially, beautiful! I was wondering, how did you find the Tropica 1-2 Grow! plants got on in the dry start? I was thinking of adding some of the Eleocharis sp. Mini to my DSM but I see you have already tried it so how did you get on?
Cheers


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. Apologies for the lack of response lately. For some reason my 'Alerts' haven't been coming through properly.



NanoJames said:


> I was thinking of adding some of the Eleocharis sp. Mini to my DSM but I see you have already tried it so how did you get on?


Hi James

The DSM was ok but in future I will only use it for mosses. Most of my stems didn't do well afterwards, but the mini hairgrass was fine. The mosses did particularly well, giving a really natural appearance that would be tough to acheive any other way, especially with Riccardia and Fissidens that don't attach so well usually.

I don't think you'll see much noticeable growth with the mini hairgrass; apparently for the first couple of weeks the plants establish roots first when running DSM.

Good luck!


----------



## NanoJames

Thanks George, some great info there! Now that my DSM is beginning to establish I am beginning to wonder if I should add mini hairgrass or not. The HC that I was going to plant it between has grown really fast and some of the planting portions are already connected by runners. It's only been a week! I'll see what I decide in the coming days.
Cheers


----------



## Greenview

It is looking great, George. I have got to give the Dry start approach a go with mosses in future, looks like your moss took really well.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi guys,

I had a bit of spare time this afternoon so here's an update with photos.

The Lindernia and Rotala are still recovering from the trim (well, more a hack) last week, but the new growth is coming through. The Ludwigia is slower growing than the Lindernia and Rotala, so I'm hoping they'll all grow to the right level simultaneously. I have an incredible amount of respect for aquascapers that have mastered the use of several species of stem plants, and their maintenance with regards nailing a decent final photo.

The grasses and mosses are near the stage where I want them for the final photo shoot, so it will be a case on keeping on top of these until the stems are also at the right stage. Hopefully it will all come together nicely at some point in the next 6 weeks or so before the IAPLC deadline (31st May).

I've added a dozen Neon tetras. I've always loved these fish - I remember seeing my first ever tropical aquarium as a young lad and thinking to myself I'll keep some of these when I grow up. I think the dash of blue is a nice addition to the aquascape. I've moved the B. maculata to my office tank, but kept the Ember tetras. The shrimp are still doing well.

I've added a small qty. of Staurogyne repens and Hydrocotyle tripartia to the lawn on the back left, and also some Marsilea hirsuta to the foreground. I figured the more textures the better to help enhance the naturalistic appearance - it's worked well so far with the HC I think. The Hydrocotyle will need to be kept in check, of course.

The CO2 is back on the Up Aqua inline diffuser and 2Kg fire extinguisher at 1 BPS using a Fluval bubble counter.

Anyway, enough rambling for now - you're probably more interested in pictures...


full tank and lights by George Farmer, on Flickr


left 8-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


glassware 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


neon group by George Farmer, on Flickr


neons trio by George Farmer, on Flickr


left close 8-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


center 8-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


neon macro by George Farmer, on Flickr


full-tank 8-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## GregP

Really love this tank. It's an inspiration as I will be setting up my new tmc signature soon.

Apologies if this has been covered, but do you thing one tile would have been enough?


----------



## LondonDragon

Looking great George  love the tank and the Journal so I had to move it to the right section of the board


----------



## George Farmer

GregP said:


> Really love this tank. It's an inspiration as I will be setting up my new tmc signature soon.
> 
> Apologies if this has been covered, but do you thing one tile would have been enough?


Thanks, Greg. 

Yes, without a doubt, one tile is enough. Ian Holdich's set-up is proof. 

My next aquascape may well use just the one tile suspended. Slow things down a bit.


----------



## NanoJames

The Riccardia and Fissidens have put on a bit of a growth spurt since you last put up photos! Also, have you thinned out your Eleocharis carpet? (That's me hinting that in the future you should let me know so that I can have the spare...)


----------



## GregP

George Farmer said:


> Thanks, Greg.
> 
> Yes, without a doubt, one tile is enough. Ian Holdich's set-up is proof.
> 
> My next aquascape may well use just the one tile suspended. Slow things down a bit.



Thank you. I'm very new to the planted hobby and want to make sure I get good results with my first attempt which will be an iwagumi set up. And I'm torn between 1 or 2 tiles as I want a full carpet edge to edge. You think one tile will definately be enough?


----------



## Stu Worrall

looking great george.  That Riccardia isnt half growing in well!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looking really good George! The neons set it off a treat, I know you was thinking about them in the beginning. Correct me, but is there anything in between the helferi and alternanthera? Looking at the fts, it just misses the graduation slopping downwards towards the left. Beautiful all the same.


----------



## George Farmer

Ian Holdich said:


> Looking really good George! The neons set it off a treat, I know you was thinking about them in the beginning. Correct me, but is there anything in between the helferi and alternanthera? Looking at the fts, it just misses the graduation slopping downwards towards the left. Beautiful all the same.


Thanks, Ian. 

Yes, there's Rotala sp. 'Green' between the Cyperus and Ludwigia. It's growing back post-prune, as discussed in my post before the photos... 



GregP said:


> You think one tile will definately be enough?


Yes. Getting enough light is easy. It is the CO2 and other nutrient management, and maintenance that are even more important for a successful aquascape.


----------



## Gary Nelson

Looking great George! it looks much more mature than it is and the new fish addition are a good choice too - do you intend on letting the moss on the wood really grow or are you planning on keeping it short and close knit?

Also, and I hope you do not mind me asking you this question on your journal, but how often are you cleaning your G3/G6 impeller assembly's?


----------



## Monk d'Wally de Honk

This is an inspiration. Beautiful tank George. I'd love to try the DSM as the mosses look superb, really natural. Maybe on my next tank.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Thanks for all the 'likes' and lovely feedback. It's really appreciated! 

When I returned from work today everyone was out, so I took the opportunity to sit in front of the tank with a cuppa and just enjoy it. It was lovely, and made me realise how little I do this.



NanoJames said:


> The Riccardia and Fissidens have put on a bit of a growth spurt since you last put up photos! Also, have you thinned out your Eleocharis carpet? (That's me hinting that in the future you should let me know so that I can have the spare...)


Hi James, sorry I didn't spot your question... I've only trimmed the hairgrass - not thinned it out, so there's no usable cuttings I'm afraid. I'll bare you in mind in the future. 



Gary Nelson said:


> Looking great George! it looks much more mature than it is and the new fish addition are a good choice too - do you intend on letting the moss on the wood really grow or are you planning on keeping it short and close knit?
> 
> Also, and I hope you do not mind me asking you this question on your journal, but how often are you cleaning your G3/G6 impeller assembly's?


Hi Gary, I'll probably just let the moss grow mostly, but prune it back when it starts to looks too unruly i.e. unnatural looking clumps. I've already pruned some back. I clean my impeller at the same time as the biological media i.e. every 6 months or so.


----------



## GregP

Thanks again George.

I have been reading this thread a lot and am still learning and trying to gain as much information as I can before I try my build. Can I ask why the tank wasn't filled straight away and the theory and benefits behind not doing so and leaving the planet partially submerged. It's not something I have come across yet in my research (though it is early days!)


----------



## viktorlantos

Hey George, the tank looks lovely. The moss covered wood is one of the best i've seen in the past. Become a real beauty.


----------



## George Farmer

GregP said:


> Can I ask why the tank wasn't filled straight away and the theory and benefits behind not doing so and leaving the planting partially submerged.


My main reason for using dry-start method (DSM) was to have a go with attaching the mosses using the yoghurt-blender method. I was also interested to see how the other plants would do. 

In hindsight I won't bother using it again for normal rooted plants, but it's great for mosses!

You can read a lot more about the DSM here -  Lots of Dry Start Method questions! | UK Aquatic Plant Society


----------



## mattb180

Looking good George!


----------



## NanoJames

NEED....MORE....PICTURES!  How's it coming along since your trimming session?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Quick update - stems are growing back nicely and everything is doing fine. 


stems above by George Farmer, on Flickr


through left side by George Farmer, on Flickr


center new stems by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Antoni

Mental growth of the Riccardia, George! The best I've ever seen. And the tank is looking great now, so natural! I feel this will be a winner


----------



## Iain Sutherland

looks mint george.


----------



## NanoJames

The embers have such nice colour on them ! What is their staple and supplementary? I agree with Antoni the growth on Fissidens and Riccardia is insane! You must have got a good batch of plants...


----------



## fish fodder

Really silly question.... I can't see if you used anything between the tank and the cabinet ie polystyrene.... Have you used anything?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



NanoJames said:


> The embers have such nice colour on them ! What is their staple and supplementary? I agree with Antoni the growth on Fissidens and Riccardia is insane! You must have got a good batch of plants...


Thanks. Their regular dry food is Elos sv.0 which is tiny granules, like powder, designed for juvenile fish. The protein content is a bit higher than usual. I also feed a DIY blend that you can read about here - DIY fish food blend... | UK Aquatic Plant Society

I also think the fish like the very soft, acidic water, and there's also plenty of cover. I've also got the CO2 as low as possible before algae get a grip. All the fish go into a frenzy at feeding time which is a good sign. 



fish fodder said:


> Really silly question.... I can't see if you used anything between the tank and the cabinet ie polystyrene.... Have you used anything?


Yes, there's white foam between the tank and cabinet, as well as a heating mat.

Nothing much else to report. Growth is great, and the stems will be due another trim soon. The Ludwigia is annoying me; it's texture is too big and ruins the otherwise fine sense of scale I have. 

If I get time this weekend I may do a practice photo shoot using backlighting and shed loads of T5.

I'm gob-smacked this journal has almost 40,000 views in 3 months. No pressure then.


----------



## NanoJames

I've not heard of that food before but it seems to be doing the trick! I'll check out your thread right now! I don't think I'd mind being an ember tetra in your tank!


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Today I've mostly been experimenting with different lighting combinations in an attempt to get the best possible photo for the IAPLC 2013. I won't be doing the final photo shoot for another few weeks, but I wanted to have a play and feel confident when the time came.

Here's what I eventually came up with -


lighting fts shoot by George Farmer, on Flickr

The TMC LED tiles are being used for backlighting, the Fluval LED for lighting the background plants, and the Arcadia T5 unit for the remainder.

And here's the result (f/10, 1/100, ISO 1000) - 


FTS 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## NanoJames

I think the Hairgrass wouyld be growing out of the tank if you left it that way! Is that the Fluval Sea LED? Looking lovely btw!


----------



## viktorlantos

That rocks George. 
I can't decide this solid blue is the best or with some gradient would be better.
With this solid blue bcg the left trees on the background looks amazing. That detial would lost with a graded bcg i guess.

George will you put some afterburner to your plants for the last 24-48 hours? Just to have better red for the final photo. I may would play it out.

But the tank looks awesome really. Well deserved place for any contest. Good work mate. Love your comeback


----------



## foxfish

I like it, good definition & authentic crystal clear lake effect!


----------



## anasarka

Amazing aquarium, well done. But if by that light, the color of fish look washed


----------



## clonitza

Looking great mate, your best 'scape inmho. Good luck at IAPLC.


----------



## Ian Holdich

Excellent photo mate!

Top 200 i tell thee!


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



NanoJames said:


> I think the Hairgrass wouyld be growing out of the tank if you left it that way! Is that the Fluval Sea LED? Looking lovely btw!


Hi James,

The Fluval LED unit is their 50cm (25w) "Aqualife and Plant" unit. It's an impressive piece of kit - really bright and even lighting. My only niggle is that greens tend to appear a little too yellow for my taste.



viktorlantos said:


> That rocks George.
> I can't decide this solid blue is the best or with some gradient would be better.
> With this solid blue bcg the left trees on the background looks amazing. That detial would lost with a graded bcg i guess.
> 
> George will you put some afterburner to your plants for the last 24-48 hours? Just to have better red for the final photo. I may would play it out.
> 
> But the tank looks awesome really. Well deserved place for any contest. Good work mate. Love your comeback


Thanks Viktor. 

The blue background is actually graduated from white to blue, but I need to position it better behind the tank for next time... 

Good idea on the 'afterburner'.   I've still a few weeks left to have a play.  I've got some other plans that will change the entire feel of the aquascape that I'll do just before the IAPLC deadline to see if they make an improvement or not.



anasarka said:


> Amazing aquarium, well done. But if by that light, the color of fish look washed


Thank you and welcome to UKAPS.  

I think the fish colour looks pretty good under this lighting, but I guess it's hard to gain a 'real' impression from a 800 pixel image where the fish are about 30 pixels long. 



clonitza said:


> Looking great mate, your best 'scape inmho. Good luck at IAPLC.


Thanks Mike. It's my favourite 'scape now too. Not just because of the layout, but everything about the journey it's been on - from my return from Afghanistan, to the moss blender technique, sharing the whole process in detail on here and getting so much positive encouragement and motivation from fellow UKAPS members.



Ian Holdich said:


> Excellent photo mate!
> 
> Top 200 i tell thee!


Top 200 would be nice, but I'm not taking anything for granted. 

Some more photos - the first two are with extra lighting. The last is with the set-up fully working, as normal, but with the tank further away from the rear wall to achieve a nice backlight effect from the TMC LEDs.


left 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


middle 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


working setup 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## NanoJames

George Farmer said:


> My only niggle is that greens tend to appear a little too yellow for my taste


 I can see what you mean. Maybe the green stems at the back look a little dazzled! Looks great nonetheless! Your shrimp must be having the time of their small lives in amongst those plants!
Cheers


----------



## gramski

Fantastic aquarium George.


----------



## Iain Sutherland

beautiful george, the pictures are really quite lovely.  Im with Ian, should place really well in IAPLC.
Can i ask where you got the background from George?


----------



## Antoni

That is fantastic, George! We really needed a visualization of the photo shoot setup! Great job and great pictures!


----------



## George Farmer

Iain Sutherland said:


> beautiful george, the pictures are really quite lovely. Im with Ian, should place really well in IAPLC.
> Can i ask where you got the background from George?


Thanks mate.  

The background was given to me a while back by Mark Evans. Unfortunately it's not a matt-finish, but with continual lighting (rather than studio flash), I don't think it's an issue.


----------



## George Farmer

Antoni said:


> That is fantastic, George! We really needed a visualization of the photo shoot setup! Great job and great pictures!


Thanks mate. 

I really enjoy experimenting with lighting to get the different effects. When I get to the stage of doing the final photo shoot at least I have a good idea now - so hopefully the outcome can be even better for the IAPLC submission!


----------



## charlie

Love the fts. Not sure how you bullied the neons into ranks of 3 but it worked. I personally love the background, its like looking up on a summers day. Good luck in the IAPLC.
Charle


----------



## George Farmer

charlie said:


> Love the fts. Not sure how you bullied the neons into ranks of 3 but it worked. I personally love the background, its like looking up on a summers day. Good luck in the IAPLC.
> Charle


Thanks, Charlie.

The trick with capturing fish is to wave a broom at each end of the tank to get them to shoal. It's taken me years of practice to hone the technique! 

Here's another in-situ shot with the tank and cabinet moved away from the wall, giving the back light effect. I really like it.


in-situ 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## plantbrain

George Farmer said:


> Nothing much else to report. Growth is great, and the stems will be due another trim soon. The Ludwigia is annoying me; it's texture is too big and ruins the otherwise fine sense of scale I have.
> 
> If I get time this weekend I may do a practice photo shoot using backlighting and shed loads of T5.
> 
> I'm gob-smacked this journal has almost 40,000 views in 3 months. No pressure then.


 
You might try something like the mini butterfly rotala.
I think it would do fine. I can send some to Alan in London, he can grow it out and share.

R. wallichii will grow too fast and become a PITA.

R. mini butterfly really have a nice feel and pearling and it responds well to pruning.
Well, at least for me. It grows a bit more even together than many other species.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

Just got stunned looking at last picture like for 10 minutes.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

Done another prune of the stems, and they're growing back nice and dense. Also keeping on top of the grasses as they try to take over the whole tank! Might also tidy up some of the Riccardia growth as it's looking a bit unruly.

I'll try to get some more shots soon. 

As a side; I looked through the Top 100 in last year's IAPLC and 66 of them have cosmetic sand/gravel. Food for thought...


----------



## Alastair

This is lookinh fantastic george I love that last shot


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

The missus has gone out for the evening so I figured I'd get the camera out and update my journal. 

I've decided to remove the Cyperus. Nothing wrong with it in terms of health but I felt the scape would look better with more Rotala to the right.

Lighting has increased significantly by simply lowering the LEDs nearer the tank. PAR is around 100 at the substrate now. I've increased CO2 and ferts accordingly, and will be performing more frequent water changes (60%, 3x per week). The pearling is incredible. 

I've also added some Ammania 'bonsai' to the left of the Ludwigia. Third time lucky, I hope.

There's just over 4 weeks until the IAPLC so hopefully I can really nail the layout and get a decent photo before then. A neighbour/friend happens to own a Canon 5D Mk3 so I'll be using that, hopefully.

Anyway, some pics... 


shoal neons embers by George Farmer, on Flickr


right neons by George Farmer, on Flickr


shrimp riccardia by George Farmer, on Flickr


shrimp fissidens by George Farmer, on Flickr


angle above right by George Farmer, on Flickr


left angle by George Farmer, on Flickr


pearling fissidens by George Farmer, on Flickr


pearling fiss ricc by George Farmer, on Flickr


pearling lindernia by George Farmer, on Flickr


in-situ 29-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## fish fodder

Just gets better


----------



## jbirley

Some amazing pictures there George, and a beautiful layout. What lens are you using for your macro shots?


----------



## Ady34

I think we call this an aquascaping masterclass!


----------



## George Farmer

jbirley said:


> Some amazing pictures there George, and a beautiful layout. What lens are you using for your macro shots?


Thanks. 

I'm using a Canon 100mm macro. Great lens!


----------



## Andy D

Stunning!

Gonna have to stop looking at these threads. I look at tanks like this and look at my own and get depressed!


----------



## flygja

Marvellous! How do you keep it so darned algae-free? It's like I've been trying to achieve some sorta balance between lighting/CO2/ferts and for years and I still haven't achieved it yet.


----------



## GillesF

Hi George

Great scape! What are you using for CO2 distribution?

Cheers
Gilles


----------



## BigTom

Lovely stuff George. The variety of textures nails it for me.


----------



## jon32

Wonderful pictures George. The moss is simply stunning


----------



## George Farmer

GillesF said:


> Hi George
> 
> Great scape! What are you using for CO2 distribution?
> 
> Cheers
> Gilles


Hi Gilles

I'm using an Up Aqua inline diffuser on the outlet of my Fluval G3, with gUSH glassware. CO2 is about 1 BPS using Fluval bubble counter. It comes on a few hours before the photoperiod. The plants pearl within about 20mins, but my lighting levels are very high at the moment. The moss looks like Riccia with all the oxygen bubbles!

Another water change tonight and I'm going to replant the Rotala because it is still in its pots and I want better coverage.

Thanks for all of the comments and 'likes'. It's really appreciated. 

4 weeks until the IAPLC deadline. I've never taken so much care and attention over an aquascape so I hope my hard work will be rewarded with a PB rank. My highest so far is 169 with this... 120cm - The Crypt Eternal - final tank shot | UK Aquatic Plant Society which I don't think is my strongest scape by a long shot.


----------



## George Farmer

flygja said:


> Marvellous! How do you keep it so darned algae-free?


Good question. It's not algae-free; I have lots of tiny tufts of BBA all over the exposed wood. I've learnt to live with it. 

I'm a big believer in good maintenance practices and dedicate time for water changes and general cleaning duties. Thankfully I enjoy this part of the hobby so it's rarely a chore. I also believe more experienced aquascapers make decisions and tweeks here and there on an almost instinctive level. For instance they know that as the plant mass increases they may increase CO2 and ferts accordingly, as well as performing more water changes, filter maintenance and pruning. With experience these choices and decisions aren't hard, but for beginners sometimes they need to learn the hard way by making their own mistakes.

I hope that answers your question in a round about way!


----------



## Ian Holdich

Great pics George! Just checking that HC out and wow, that has grown like wildfire! This scape is probs my fave now, skree taking second place. Really well executed...this deserves a high iaplc placement, and I hope it does as you deserve it.


----------



## George Farmer

Ian Holdich said:


> Great pics George! Just checking that HC out and wow, that has grown like wildfire! This scape is probs my fave now, skree taking second place. Really well executed...this deserves a high iaplc placement, and I hope it does as you deserve it.


Thanks, Ian. Comments like that mean a lot. 

I'm thrilled with the recent progress this layout is making.

Since increasing the lighting by suspending the LED tiles nearer the water the growth has gone pretty mental - in a good way. The Ludwigia is taking on a much nicer redness, and the other stems are more compact. The HC is spreading throughout the mini hairgrass and looks really natural. I'm also managing to grow Ammania sp. "Bonsai". 

I am changing 60% of the water every 2 to 3 days to ensure the extra organic waste produced from the plants is diluted sufficiently to prevent algae, and I am "super-dosing" ferts. Currently 5ml TPN+, 5ml Special-N, and 3ml Flowgrow Mikro daily. CO2 is just over 1BPS with the drop checker bordering on a yellow tinge. Shrimp are still breeding and fish are remaining very active though, presumably due to the high oxygen levels. Pearling is intense.

One of my favourite recent additions to my maintenance kit are these scissors from UKAPS sponsor, Aquarium Plant Food UK. They make pruning so easy, especially the lawn.


large wave 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Later this week I'm away from home for 4 days at the London Pet Show (aquascaping tanks and giving talks to the public) so will have to go much lower-energy which will be a case of raising the LED tiles up to about 60cm above the water surface, and much lower dosing. This is one of the great advantages of suspending lighting - it's so easy to control growth rates.


in-situ 6-5-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


6-5-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Alastair

That looks stunning George,  couldn't put it any better than what ian said. Beautiful


----------



## tim

Wow George  Everything else has pretty much been said for me this should place top 100 easily nature aquarium masterclass.


----------



## James Marshall

This scape is real textural treat, which in turn adds to the sense of scale
The plants have filled in very nicely now, good decsion to loose the Cyperus btw.
You should beat me at the IAPLC now mate 

Cheers,
James


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Not much to report. The tank did really well during my time away and I've just done a plant prune/tidy and water change. The more observant of you will notice there's no Ammania now. Flippin' melted on me again! 

*Before prune*

before prune by George Farmer, on Flickr

*During prune*

during prune by George Farmer, on Flickr

*After prune*

after prune by George Farmer, on Flickr

Just over 2 weeks until the IAPLC deadline...


----------



## Lloyd

AMAZING! Top 100 easy!


----------



## Aron_Dip

Wow awesome George . 1 quick question, whats the tall grass too the right of tank?

Cheers
Aron


----------



## Alastair

Love that before prune shot George.  Im keeping my fingers crossed it does well. 
Its really deceptive too as when its a full tank shot it looks a big tank then when you see you pruning the sense of scale changes massively.  

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Ian Holdich

That carpet is looking really good mate. Fingers crossed this gets the recognition that its deserved. I bet this scape means a lot to you...who'd have thought a year ago you was fighting for our country in one of the most dangerous places in the world, and you come back with this bad boy, and an excellent journal. For one I say, thank you.


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



Lloyd said:


> AMAZING! Top 100 easy!


I honestly doubt it. The standard gets higher every year. Below 500 honestly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.



Aron_Dip said:


> ?.. quick question, whats the tall grass too the right of


It's just E. tenellus but allowed to grow over itself to get the height and density I was after.


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Love it George !!! Hope it will do well. 
There strong natural feeling in that scape !! 
I wish to have your skills mate ! 

Regards


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Quick update. 

I'm going to do the final photo shoot for this 'scape this weekend and I've done the last major prune (I'll follow up with some minor snippets here and there throughout this week).

To get the best out of the stems in the background I've added a Fluval Aqualife LED unit to the rear of the tank. This will allow the stems to grow in time and remain very compact. The red of the Ludwigia will really pop too. I've set this on a 12hr photoperiod, and left the TMC LEDs on their usual 7hr. The idea is that the other plants grow at their normal rate, resulting in all of the plants reaching their peak just at the right time.  Well.... that's the plan, anyway! 


final prep side by George Farmer, on Flickr


final prep front insitu by George Farmer, on Flickr

I realise you can't see much red of the Ludwigia at the moment - you'll just have to trust me that it will grow back post-prune full of reddy goodness!

I'll share some final photos this weekend hopefully, but obviously the final shot for the IAPLC will remain secret for a while.


----------



## Alastair

Beautiful george. Hope this ranks really well 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


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## Antoni

I love the texture and the hardscape! This must place well in IAPLC! Great tank and journal, full of nice and useful tips! Can't wait for the final pictures, George!


----------



## Mr. Teapot

Absolutely the most stunning tank! For a completely clueless newbie like me, its incredibly exciting to see a competition tank being prepped for a final photoshoot... I had no idea they were put on a turbo mode in their last few weeks. It must be the ultimate aquatic balancing act!

This is probably one of those stupid newbie questions, but can a compition tank be sustained in its final photo state by taking down the lighting, ferts and CO2 for the long-term or will it always slowly return to a more 'fallow' state... and ultimately, what happens to a tank that's redlined for too long?


----------



## charlie

Looks fabulous George. Good luck in the comp.

Charlie


----------



## Ady34

Epic. The density of the plants is awesome.
I cant believe the plants will have filled in again by the weekend for the final shoot  Thats power growing!
Interesting to see your technique for ensuring it will be spot on for deadline date. Do you need to adjust any ferts or c02 for the extra lighting intensity and duration?
Sorry to bring it up, but what do you attribute the bba on the hardscape too, especially given the overall exceptional health of the tank and plants? 
Cheerio,
Ady.


----------



## Steve Smith

Stunning stuff George! Can't wait to see final shots.  Are you planning to keep it running after taking the final competition shots (albeit slower I'd expect) or do you plan to tear it down and start something new?


----------



## George Farmer

Mr. Teapot said:


> Absolutely the most stunning tank! For a completely clueless newbie like me, its incredibly exciting to see a competition tank being prepped for a final photoshoot... I had no idea they were put on a turbo mode in their last few weeks. It must be the ultimate aquatic balancing act!
> 
> This is probably one of those stupid newbie questions, but can a compition tank be sustained in its final photo state by taking down the lighting, ferts and CO2 for the long-term or will it always slowly return to a more 'fallow' state... and ultimately, what happens to a tank that's redlined for too long?


Hello and thank you. 

There are no stupid newbie questions here.  I welcome the opportunity to help out where I can. 

The 'turbo mode' is not appropriate for all layouts. I've not done it before but figured it would work well for this as I need the stems to grow quicker than usual. The limited spread of the Fluval LED and its position means that it's targeting just the rear of the tank, allowing the TMC LEDs to grow the remainder at the usual pace.

It is possible to slow everything down like you mention, just by reducing the lighting etc. It is important to limit light before anything else though, otherwise algae may proliferate.

If a tank is 'redlined' for too long then you will just be rewarded with super high levels of necessary maintenance (pruning and water changes) in order to keep things in check and prevent algae. I would say something like Tom Barr's latest is a good example of long term success with 'redlining'. Much higher energy than my system, and actually a good source of income due to the quantity of plants that can be sold on. I would only recommend this kind of high energy system for the more experienced though. The more energy (mainly light) one uses, the narrower the boundary between healthy plant growth and algae.



Ady34 said:


> Epic. The density of the plants is awesome.
> I cant believe the plants will have filled in again by the weekend for the final shoot  Thats power growing!
> Interesting to see your technique for ensuring it will be spot on for deadline date. Do you need to adjust any ferts or c02 for the extra lighting intensity and duration?
> Sorry to bring it up, but what do you attribute the bba on the hardscape too, especially given the overall exceptional health of the tank and plants?
> Cheerio,
> Ady.


Thanks mate. 

CO2 is the same at around 1BPS. Any higher and the livestock become sluggish and lose their appetite. I am adding an extra dose of ferts half way through the photoperiod though, including liquid carbon.

I can only assume the BBA is due to the slowly decaying Manzanita wood. There is no BBA anywhere else, including on the rockwork.



Steve Smith said:


> Stunning stuff George! Can't wait to see final shots.  Are you planning to keep it running after taking the final competition shots (albeit slower I'd expect) or do you plan to tear it down and start something new?


Thanks buddy. 

I'll be stripping this down fairly soon because I'm away from home for 4 weeks in early June and I don't like to burden my family with tank maintenance.

I will do a comprehensive summary post before the strip down including lots of photos and lessons I've learnt. Looking forward to it actually. It's been a great ride so far, this little aquascape, but it ain't over just yet...


----------



## Lee Starkie

It's taken me ages to read through this journal in one go but was well worth it, stunning tank with brilliant photos to match, I only hope that one day I can do a tank half as natural and beautiful as this one, really impressive.


----------



## George Farmer

Just a quick iPhone photo to show the progress of the stems in particular.

I think I'll be doing the photo shoot on Bank Holiday Monday. I'm quite excited actually! 


iPhone pic TMC Signature by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Aron_Dip

Those ludwigia red is really starting too show with the fluval LED light over them...

I look and think one day I wish too have crafted something this stunning ... One day maybe one day...

Awesome

Cheers
Aron


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks, Aron. The Fluval LED is working a treat. Every day the new growth is obvious.

I've also moved the TMC LEDs nearer the water to get a final spurt of growth from the plants nearer the front.

75% water changes are daily and I'm dosing 5ml TPN+, 5ml Spezial-N, 5ml Flowgrow Mikro and 3ml liquid carbon twice per day! The pearling is insane.


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

Hi George with the led turn off we can really see that L arcuata is deep red ! Nice work !!! 
I just wanted to know since when you have started to do the daily 75% water change please ? 
And how do you proceed with ferts for that ? Do you dose macro at the beginning if the photo period and the micro at the middle of the photo period ? 

Again nice work congrats ! 

Cheers


----------



## Nutty

Hi George,
I thought this tank was a monster until i saw the pic of you pruning, its truly amazing the sense of scale and depth you've created here, the density of plant is just wow!
I sure hope you get the just reward with a nice high IAPLC ranking!

Cheers,
Nutty


----------



## George Farmer

zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> Hi George with the led turn off we can really see that L arcuata is deep red ! Nice work !!!
> I just wanted to know since when you have started to do the daily 75% water change please ?
> And how do you proceed with ferts for that ? Do you dose macro at the beginning if the photo period and the micro at the middle of the photo period ?
> 
> Again nice work congrats !
> 
> Cheers


Thanks. 

I started the daily water changes a couple of days ago after adding the Fluval LED. 

I add the first lot of ferts before the photoperiod, then the second in the middle. I add micros and macros together.



Nutty said:


> Hi George,
> I thought this tank was a monster until i saw the pic of you pruning, its truly amazing the sense of scale and depth you've created here, the density of plant is just wow!
> I sure hope you get the just reward with a nice high IAPLC ranking!
> 
> Cheers,
> Nutty


Thanks. 

I was keen to get a good sense of scale by using fine textures throughout.

If you read through the journal you'll notice I wasn't happy with the Ludwigia because the leaves were a bit too big, but over the last few weeks the regular pruning has increased their density, so it's not too bad. I'm really happy with its intense red colouration now with the higher lighting. It's just a shame it's not something I'd be prepared to do long-term - it's just too much hard work keeping on top of the necessary pruning and maintenance! 

It's my eldest daughter's 17th Birthday today and she has a load of friends over. They're all amazed by the tank and I'm only too happy to discuss the concept of the aquascaped planted aquarium.  They even seem genuinely interested.  Winning hearts and minds, one 'scape at a time...


----------



## viktorlantos

Hey George, there is the red my friend! 
You're still on time, but i guess you never run this hard for the last minutes before 

This will be there, let's hope the sp green will not blow out the tank in the following days. Great scape, good to see you're using the last few minutes to get that last few fine touches. Looking forward to the final image. 

Also good luck on the contest. Good to see the fire is burning again   just like in the old days mate.


----------



## SalvadorNL

Wow absolutely stunning tank!
But what a maintenance, I don't think I could do something like that, let alone create such a scape.


----------



## George Farmer

SalvadorNL said:


> Wow absolutely stunning tank!
> But what a maintenance, I don't think I could do something like that, let alone create such a scape.


Thanks. The high maintenance is only in preparation for the fast approaching closing date for the IAPLC (31st May).

Up until now maintenance has been 1-2hrs per week, which isn't that much IMO.


----------



## TOO

This looks great, obviously, but in the last pic I can't help feeling that the the plant line going from left to right follows the roots too uniformly, creating two almost even sized 90 degree triangles. I would have preferred to see the driftwood more "free" and less blended in with the plants. I think this would create some more depth. I am aware this is post-prune of course. I hope this is useful.

Thomas


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Thomas

Thanks for the critique!


----------



## SalvadorNL

George Farmer said:


> Thanks. The high maintenance is only in preparation for the fast approaching closing date for the IAPLC (31st May).
> 
> Up until now maintenance has been 1-2hrs per week, which isn't that much IMO.


 
Nope, 1-2hr is not much. Guess I have a lot to learn...
I spend a lot more time on my tank but doesn't look half as good.


----------



## George Farmer

Just moved the tank away from the wall and fitted the extra lighting and light blue background ready for photo shoot tomorrow.

I'll do a final water change and glass clean tonight, then photos in the morning.


----------



## George Farmer

A coupe of shots from this morning's shoot.


IAPLC 2013 preview by George Farmer, on Flickr


IAPLC 2103 preview 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


----------



## Antoni

Wow, that pictures are stunning George! I like the ripple and the detail! Seems like the after burner works great! I'm sure the final shot is stunner! Good luck on IAPLC!


----------



## Ady34

Looking lovely George, water clarity, ripple and plant health second to none.....cant help feeling that the stems could do with just a little more growth, do you not fancy taking it right to the wire and doing a truly last minute shoot and entry? 3 or 4 more days may take this scape from the 'exceptional' to the 'sublime'......stunning photography too!


----------



## Alastair

Antoni said:


> Wow, that pictures are stunning George! I like the ripple and the detail! Seems like the after burner works great! I'm sure the final shot is stunner! Good luck on IAPLC!


+1 on this ^^. Looks amazing George.  Cant wait to see how it places. Stunning mate 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## zanguli-ya-zamba

I don't know what to say again about this tank !! FANTASTIC !!
The quality and details of these pic is very good 
which camera and mens did you use for these picture.

aaaaaaah it will be long until we see the IAPLC shot 
nice work 
cheers


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 

The photo shoot went well. I was hoping to use a full-frame DSLR but had to use my trusted old 50D in the end. The practice shoot I did a few weeks ago really helped as I knew exactly what lighting would work, and I managed to improve the background this time.  

The fish took a bit longer to get into the shot how I wanted. I ended up using a blue fish net taped to a broom handle to get them to shoal. Simply waving the broom at either end of the tank coaxes them into nice nice shoals and after a while you get used to their swimming pattern so can get the right shot after a few attempts.

I set up the hairdryer on a second tripod for the ripples that left me free to concentrate on capturing the shot at the right moment.

I ensured there was virtually no CO2 in the tank by doing a 75% water change last night, then running the lily pipe above the water line to drive of any remaining CO2 overnight. This helped to minimise pearling that would have been a nightmare and spoiled the photo with all that light above the tank this morning. (96w HO T5, 85w LED!)  

Anyway, I'm pleased with the final shot. It's probably the best full-tank shot I've ever taken from a technical perspective, and I think the aquascape is also one of my best. It's certainly been my favourite in terms of trying out some new ideas such as the moss/blender technique. I'm also thrilled with how the Eleocharis mini and HC carpet mixture has worked out. I've learnt a lot about stem plants too. 



zanguli-ya-zamba said:


> I don't know what to say again about this tank !! FANTASTIC !!
> The quality and details of these pic is very good
> which camera and mens did you use for these picture.
> 
> aaaaaaah it will be long until we see the IAPLC shot
> nice work
> cheers


Thank you. 

I used my Canon 50D and 24-105L. I'm getting a Canon 6D soon which will give better results, as well as video.



Ady34 said:


> .cant help feeling that the stems could do with just a little more growth, do you not fancy taking it right to the wire and doing a truly last minute shoot and entry?


I'd love to mate but my marriage is more important! 

I've obsessed about this tank over the last 10 days or so, and promised today was the last... I'll keep it ticking over for the sake of plant health but I'm not planning on getting out the photo gear and tools again for a good while!

So, here are probably the last two photos you'll see of this tank for a while. 


last in-situ 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr


last in-situ 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr

Finally - thanks so much for all the support and feedback you guys have provided throughout this journal.

It really has helped keep me motivated and no doubt has contributed to the way this aquascape has turned out. Hopefully my next journal can be as equally involving. 

Cheers,
George


----------



## tim

Superb scape, so healthy and natural, it will be a crime if this doesn't place well IMO. Inspirational journal and photography too shame to see it end. Absolutely awesome


----------



## sa80mark

I absolutely love this tank. Ive saved most of your pictures so I can keep them as reference.  Theres so much going on in what is quite a small space its really inspirational for a newbie like me. Ive gained so much from just looking at the pictures I especially like how your carpet plants blend into the wood with a 2 different palants merging together and the other thing I like is how your main planted area is to the right of the tank where so many others are from the left.

Best of luck you deserve a high placing for this one 

Mark


----------



## foxfish

Lovely George, nice clean shots & a great looking tank.


----------



## plantbrain

The red ludwigia made the color scheme much better. Easier to deal with, then the green stems did their job creeping over the wood nicely.
Lots of water changes, super cleaning everything and then the pictures are another level of horse manure to deal with.

It's a lot of work frankly.


----------



## George Farmer

plantbrain said:


> It's a lot of work frankly.


A labour of love!


----------



## viktorlantos

Great one George! Congratulation on this journey. I do enjoyed a lot following the progress from the idea to the final shot.

I know this is IAPLC time but hoping you also will drop this to AGA this year.
This is not about guaranteed ranking and criminals if the tank is not getting very high, but this has good chances to do well as the scape itself is something new, the photo is awesome and the plant health is exceptional. If the fishes will be a nice touch it has great chances. But this is a small tank and IAPLC winners are usually larger ones. Thats why it worth to drop it to AGA too where the categorization support better these kind of beauties too.

We learned a lot from this journal, and i guess you also enjoyed at least creating this beauty. Does not matter what ranking it gets this year, but we will remember for this.

Then why race on contests? George journal shows exactly why it is good. The pressure of the deadline, the last few touches to make it even better. The photo test do perform a perfect photo. Without contests i guess that excitement is fully lost and we would miss it from the journal.

Wish you good luck my friend, hoping the judges will score it well.


----------



## Marco Aukes

A great journal that has resulted in a stunning scape. The bad part is that we never get to see the final FTS untill judging is done, bit I bet it is worth the wait.

Good luck on the contest, the judges should have no other option than to score it well.


----------



## ghostsword

It is an amazing scape... also great explanations of how you got to achieve it, from day one.

Could you do a 5 minute video of it, and release it once the results are announced? It would be really good to see the tank in movement.

A really nice aquascape, it will place high surely.


----------



## plantbrain

George Farmer said:


> A labour of love!


 

Now try to do this on 5-6 aquariums various sizes.

Then the work is much more

Victor makes some good points, while seeking so fully bloomed design is a good reason to enter contest, same can be said for a dozen contest. The part about the SIZE of the aquarium is also true, I've heard this from no less than 4 different ADA vendors.  

So when are you getting that 180 cm rimless tank?
The AGA and the ADA contest are linked I believe.

So if you enter the AGA, they automatically enter into the ADA.
The competition is quite good in the AGA contest.


----------



## George Farmer

You're right, of course. But I'm far too busy with work and family commitments to take anymore aquatic stuff on at home. This 60cm is the perfect size for me. Quality over quantity maybe.


----------



## Piece-of-fish

George Farmer said:


> You're right, of course. But I'm far too busy with work and family commitments to take anymore aquatic stuff on at home. This 60cm is the perfect size for me. Quality over quantity maybe.


So true. But on another hand whole UK is secretly waiting until GF goes HUGE. With your attention and dedication to details a tank of any size has no chance to be less of a stunner. Same goes to getting 6D and into the videos. I can bet an arm (not the plant cutting one though  ) we are going to see some of the finest video projects some time soon... It is very addictive.
Good luck to rank high.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Well the scape is still going! I've been too busy at work to strip it down and I'm away all this weekend. Then I'm away from home for 4 weeks after that.

So I think I'm going to try and keep it going for the next month or so using lower lighting and nutrient levels, and just maintaining it once a week when I'm home at the weekends.  

This gives me plenty of time to plan the next 'scape!  Any suggestions welcomed!

Thanks again for all of the feedback - it's really appreciated, as always.


----------



## Ady34

How's about a slow going iwagumi with anubias, ferns and a moss foreground! A tricky concept to pull off maybe and therefore a bit if a challenge but easier maintenance for family life. With a slow one the Mrs may even allow the monster tank Ed talked of above after 

The tank looks perfect in the last shot. I think maybe some of the angles of the snippets of the iaplc shoot were deceptive as to the impact of the stems. When you look at those taken from higher angles the stem presence is highlighted. 
Good luck mate, deserves a good placing. It looks much more natural than many in the top 100 will I'm sure.
Cheerio
Ady


----------



## Ian Holdich

Looks awesome George, IMO it's just a shame the fake landscapes always tank over in the top 10. Lets hope the uk represent well this year, from what I have seen I think this will be our strongest year in the iaplc.


----------



## George Farmer

Here's a quick idea for an easy 'scape...

Strip out the plants but keep the moss-covered hardscape.

Replace the soil with a nice sand.

Drop the lighting to keep it low maintenance and help prevent algae. Maybe add some floaters.

Add a nice shoal of bottom dwelling fish - Corydrous or small loaches.

And we have a nice minimalist Nature Aquarium. 

I'll probably get bored of it after a few weeks but it should look pretty cool for relatively little effort/cost.

Thoughts?


----------



## Michael W

A large group of Pygmy Corydoras will look amazing. Unlike most Corydoras the Pygmy variant will constantly school mid water as well as bottom so that will look relatively nice. Here is a lovely video that I found which shows what i mean   .


----------



## stu_

A shallow Dutch,then you & Ian can have a 'scape off'


----------



## George Farmer

stu_ said:


> A shallow Dutch,then you & Ian can have a 'scape off'


Good idea but I'm not a big fan of Dutch these days. I've tried it and enjoyed the challenge but the style is just a bit too formal for my taste.


----------



## tim

Pygmy Corries are awesome little fish, corydora hasborus is another. With the quality of the hard scape and moss, would be a stunning scape in its own right.


----------



## sa80mark

I like the sound of the sand and moss scape but with it being open topped and hanging light how about a riparium ? Could still be low maintenance, low cost and would look great 

Mark


----------



## ghostsword

Your plan is perfect George.. Or better ... Lots of wood and rocks, and move them around when bored.

Ferns, moss and pinnatifida can grow on rocks and wood. 

 


___________________________
Luis 
@ghostsword


----------



## clonitza

George Farmer said:


> This gives me plenty of time to plan the next 'scape!  Any suggestions welcomed!


 
A red plants only 'scape with green fish. 
Still I'd like you to try some more exotic plant species not just the ones from Tropica. 

Cheers,
Mike


----------



## Rich Jackson

could you tell me what you used as a background for the final shots?
is it just a light blue vinyl film or something different?


----------



## George Farmer

Rich Jackson said:


> could you tell me what you used as a background for the final shots?
> is it just a light blue vinyl film or something different?


Hi Rich,

It's just blue paper that's graduated white to blue.


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Just a quick update.

I've been away all week and the tank's been doing fine in my absence. 3ml TPN+ and Spezial-N being dosed daily in my absence, no top-ups required, as the water is only 21-23C and I topped it right up before I left.

You can see the growth is quite significant, despite the lower lighting and nutrients. You can see the Rotala growing through the surface already. I'm going to probably just let it go wild until July when I'm home properly. Then I'll either give it one last prune and re-grow for another photo shoot (for the AGA contest perhaps), or total re-scape, maybe keeping the hardscape/moss as mentioned in earlier posts.

Photo taken with iPhone 5. I'm really impressed with the camera on these!


----------



## leonroy

Stunning, possibly my favorite scape out of all of the ones you've done. Can't wait to see what you'd do with a 150cm or 180cm tank.

Reckon you, James and Ed should open a shop together in Knightsbridge and put your top layouts on display. I'm sure the Harrods crowd would snap them up!


----------



## Alastair

The tank looks big in that picture george.
 I love this scape its stunning.  And to have come from having the time away from scaping during your tour of duty to produce this is a credit to your skills mate. Cant wait to see how this ranks 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## George Farmer

Hi all,

Another quick update.

I would have been sharing photos taken with a Canon 6D but it's faulty straight out of the box. Disappointed is an understatement. 

Anyway, here's a couple of shots taken this morning. It's been 2 weeks since any pruning. Almost all of the stems are now growing emerged.


----------



## tim

Love this overgrown look  plant health is top notch, inspirational journal George.


----------



## viktorlantos

Looking good! Would be nice to wait and see if the stems will flower


----------



## Ian Holdich

Great shots of the emersed stuff mate, great stuff!


----------



## George Farmer

I took this last night with my iPhone 5. I'm so impressed with its camera. It's better than any compact I've ever owned!


----------



## TOO

You probably said this somewhere in the thread, but what stems are seen growing emersed here? Looking for ideas for an emersed set-up. Thanks.

The last shots show the fine balance between the wild and controlled look. I actually love both.

Thomas


----------



## George Farmer

TOO said:


> ....what stems are seen growing emersed here? Looking for ideas for an emersed set-up.


Hi Thomas - there's Ludwigia sp., Lindernia rotundifolia and Rotala sp. 'green'. The first two adapt quicker out of water.


----------



## TOO

Thanks for the reply: My Lindernia are just breaking the surface, so will be interesting to flower (apparently has nice flowers). Mine, however, seem to have a more "marbled" leaf than yours.

Thomas


----------



## Ady34

You need a bigger tank for that alcove 

Nice to see the tank placed, gives a real sense of the scale.
Cheerio,
Ady


----------



## viktorlantos

George Farmer said:


> I took this last night with my iPhone 5. I'm so impressed with its camera. It's better than any compact I've ever owned!


 
Nah, another Apple fanboy 
Just kidding George, i also have that. Photo is great. It's nice to see how phones getting better these days.
Actually i was amazed how nice vid i can do with the phone compare to my 5DMarkII.


----------



## GillesF

Awesome aquascape, George. One of my all-time favourites. I've always been a fan of "triangular scapes" but this one is really impressive.

How's the lighting? Is that medium light from where the tiles are hanging? I'd love to do something like this for my own 90cm tank but don't want be pruning all the time etc. Do you think low-medium light will give the same effect?


----------



## GillesF

I mean growth speed wise. Or did you use a lot of HC from the start?


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



GillesF said:


> How's the lighting? Is that medium light from where the tiles are hanging? I'd love to do something like this for my own 90cm tank but don't want be pruning all the time etc. Do you think low-medium light will give the same effect?


Hi Gilles - the lighting in the position it is now is about 30-40 PAR at the substrate, so enough to grow anything really, but not really what I'd regards as high lighting. It's not enough to bring out the crimson red in the Ludwigia, for instance... 

I literally used about 6 stems of HC about halfway through the 'scape's life. It's just grown really well and mixed with the mini-grass nicely.

Two of these tiles is plenty for a 90cm I'd say. 



Ady34 said:


> You need a bigger tank for that alcove
> 
> Nice to see the tank placed, gives a real sense of the scale.
> Cheerio,
> Ady


Thanks mate.

Yes, a bigger tank is always appealing, but I do really like this size because it's so manageable. I promised my wife that I would not spend so much time on aquascaping this year, so an upgrade in size wouldn't go down too well. 

I could actually squeeze a 100cm in there. Maybe if I did it covertly through the night she wouldn't notice! lol


----------



## GillesF

George Farmer said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> Hi Gilles - the lighting in the position it is now is about 30-40 PAR at the substrate, so enough to grow anything really, but not really what I'd regards as high lighting. It's not enough to bring out the crimson red in the Ludwigia, for instance...
> 
> I literally used about 6 stems of HC about halfway through the 'scape's life. It's just grown really well and mixed with the mini-grass nicely.
> 
> Two of these tiles is plenty for a 90cm I'd say.


 

I was planning on doing a triangular scape with no foreground plants like HC but now that I see this ... I'm hesitating, lol!
I was planning on getting a Beamswork because of budget. Those tiles look awesome too though.


----------



## Yo-han

Those files are awesome, HC loves it! 100cm tank at my work with two of those and HC filled almost completely after 2 weeks!


----------



## George Farmer

Yes, I'm a big fan of the TMC tiles. First the 1000ND, and now the 1500 Ultima. 

But it's worth remembering that light is only a small fraction of what's necessary for a successful planted tank, and more doesn't always mean more....


----------



## George Farmer

A couple more...


----------



## GillesF

Posted the last picture on our Facebook page: +3000 views, 15 new likes, 30 shares & 40 likes in 1 evening. AWESOME! People love your work


----------



## faizal

Lovely shots George. You make growing plants look so easy. The tank is so crisp & clean. Loving the emergent growths.It gives the entire scape a very natural look. Just out of curiosity though,...how long do you spend time on your tank everyday?


----------



## George Farmer

faizal said:


> Lovely shots George. You make growing plants look so easy. The tank is so crisp & clean. Loving the emergent growths.It gives the entire scape a very natural look. Just out of curiosity though,...how long do you spend time on your tank everyday?


Thanks. 

One of my aims with this journal is to hopefully show that growing plants is relatively easy. I am not keeping any secrets - it's all here in this journal - even the failures.

At the moment I am only touching tank once a week (I'm away with work this month, except for weekends).

So once per week I perform a water change, cleaning the glass, and clean the pre-filter in the Fluval G. I clean the glass with every water change whether it looks dirty or not, paying particular attention to the silicone in the corners where algae can 'stain'. This way stubborn algae never takes hold. I spend about 30 minutes on these tasks all in.  In my absence daily fert dosing is done for me. All ferts are in pump-dispensing bottles so it's really easy. Even the fish food (micro-granules) has a small spoon so they can't be overfed. 

When I'm at home it's different story. I will often spend a few minutes every day on the tank. Nipping off runners here and there, replanting the odd stem if it needs it. I'll usually do two big water changes per week. Then once a week I usually do a pruning session if required. I'll usually clean the glassware and filter hoses every two weeks. I think I've cleaned the biological media and filter impeller once in the last 6 months, as well as re-charging the Seachem Purigen that sits in the Fluval G chemical cartridge.

I am really enjoying seeing this tank take on a more wild look. I imagine next weekend it will look quite messy and chaotic with the tenellus taking over most of the tank. I won't be re-scaping until July at the earliest so I can imagine it will be a right mess by then, but the fish will be very happy and the plants hopefully healthy and algae-free. 

I'm still trying to come up with a new layout design in my head. I love this stage.


----------



## George Farmer

Readers of PFK magazine will see this aquascape as a full step-by-step feature including many unpublished photos. Coming out in the September issue.


----------



## Gary Nelson

I will be looking forward to seeing it in PFK


----------



## Alastair

Gary Nelson said:


> I will be looking forward to seeing it in PFK


+1

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Joel S

Hi George, this tank has been amazing throughout and I like it possibly the best in this jungly phase. 
Can I ask, am I right that you're using an Up Atomizer on the intake of your filter? Do you find you have to clean it often, and if so how are you doing that?
Cheers,
Joel


----------



## George Farmer

Hi Joel, thanks. 

The inline diffuser is on the outlet this time. The bubble rate is only 1BPS so the mist is minimal. I clean it every time I clean the hoses - about every 3-4 weeks. Cleaned with a gUSH hose cleaner - no bleach or anything.


----------



## Joel S

Thanks George  that's helpful and interesting. I'm wondering if I'll have to clean mine more because of London tap water and limescale. I'm already noticing the levels being quite inconsistent.


----------



## George Farmer

Yes, harder water will cause more issues with ceramic diffusers. I use 100% RO these days. No limescale build-up anywhere!


----------



## George Farmer

Here's a quick iPhone video. The urge to hack back all the plants is overwhelming!


----------



## BigTom

Quick, someone hide his scissors!

George, can you remind what the mixed carpet is made up of again?


----------



## Mark Evans

Hi George,

This always sounds like a cliché, but I saw this today, and pictures and videos do this no justice. (not saying you cant take a pic) The moss, and ricardia is immense.

You do need to attend to those stems though.


----------



## anasarka

Hi George, can you do a picture of moss and mini pellia. Would you share had a problem with their progress and how you maintained. Who is more invasive from them.


----------



## NanoJames

BigTom said:


> Quick, someone hide his scissors! George, can you remind what the mixed carpet is made up of again?


 I'm pretty sure George is using the Mini Hairgrass and Hemianthus Callitrichoides and both are Tropica 1-2 GROW!


----------



## GHNelson

Ludwigia George looks like.
LUDWIGIA SP.' PALUSTRIS' Red....see photo in Plant Pictures.
How do you keep the leaves that break the surface from drying out? mine get too dry.
Which results in dry wrinkled leaf edges.
Cheers
hoggie


----------



## George Farmer

Thanks guys. 



BigTom said:


> George, can you remind what the mixed carpet is made up of again?


Hi Tom,

Sure, there's mainly Eleocharis 'mini' and HC mixed but there are others in there too - just less visible.  There's Marsilea hirsuta, Lilaeopsis brasiliensis, E. parvula (crept forward from the rear), Hydrocotyle tripartia (sprouted randomly from what I though was removed ages ago!), Riccia fluitans (submerse form - doesn't float! - came in with the Riccardia I think), and finally some of the new Micranthemum sp. "Monte Carlo-3" (one stem has just started to take off on the right). 



anasarka said:


> Hi George, can you do a picture of moss and mini pellia. Would you share had a problem with their progress and how you maintained. Who is more invasive from them.


I will see if I have any decent photos taken recently to share later. 

I didn't have any problems with the Ricciardia or Fissidens. I only needed to trim them after about 3 months. I would say they grow at similar rates, but I started off with a lot more Riccardia, so that is still the most prevalent.



hogan53 said:


> Ludwigia George looks like.
> LUDWIGIA SP.' PALUSTRIS' Red....see photo in Plant Pictures.
> How do you keep the leaves that break the surface from drying out? mine get too dry.
> Which results in dry wrinkled leaf edges.
> Cheers
> hoggie


Thanks for the info, Hoggie. 

I have done nothing to the plants to prevent them from drying out. I have literally neglected all of the plant life for the last 3-4 weeks (except for the usual CO2, ferts, and weekly water change).

Perhaps they're not drying out as much as other systems because I have suspended LED lighting with no heat transfer? The Rotala is seeing some wrinkles, but the Ludwigia and Lindernia is loving both underwater and airborne life!


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## GHNelson

Cheers George.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

Some shots from yesterday.


fts 230613 by George Farmer, on Flickr


above 230613 by George Farmer, on Flickr


right 230613 by George Farmer, on Flickr


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## Ian Holdich

Nice pics mate, that Monte Carlo, is a rampant weed! It took a couple of weeks a little dormant in my tank, but them went wild.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

Here's a couple of shots I took earlier.  The plants are now 4 weeks without trimming.


4 weeks no trim 1 by George Farmer, on Flickr


4 weeks no trim 2 by George Farmer, on Flickr

I'm really keen to set up a completely new aquascape with new plants and materials.

So with this in mind, *I am offering to sell all of the plants and hardscape in one go*.  

I would also recommend collection so you can assure the plants are in tip top condition.  

If you are interested PM me and we can discuss a price. Don't forget, you're getting all of the hardscape too, complete with Riccardia and Fissidens that covering it all!

Cheers,
George


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## TOO

Already on to something new? I thought aquascaping was all about zen and being in the moment .

Thomas


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## George Farmer

TOO said:


> Already on to something new? I thought aquascaping was all about zen and being in the moment .
> 
> Thomas


It's also about trying out new ideas and having fun!


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## LancsRick

I have a horrible feeling that you're going to live down south, but where are you located?


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## George Farmer

Peterborough area. 5 mins from A1.


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## LancsRick

/starts a petition for more aquascaping gurus to be based on up north.

Cheers though George .


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## justin85

Hey George,

how long was your light period when you first flooded the tank and for the following weeks?

Tank look amazing btw


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## George Farmer

7hrs, thanks.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

I'm really keen to shift this lot ASAP so I'm offering a couple of deals -

*All the hardscape complete with covered Riccarida and Fissidens - £100*
*All of the other plants - £50*

Postage and packing will be extra. Obviously a lot more for the rocks and wood. Collection is welcome.

Here's a quick reminder of the hardscape and plants in their prime.  All of the plants are very healthy with virtual no algae, and no pest snails.




 

Cheers,
George


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## Ady34

Ooh, that hardscape deal is very tempting with a new scape on the horizon! Instant impact!


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## aliclarke86

It would fit so well in mine but kind of take the fun out of it....

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## Rich Jackson

If this was a few months time Id take them!! but I am definitely still in the planning stage


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## George Farmer

Plants and hardscape now unavailable.


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## George Farmer

Re-scape later today. Nothing groundbreaking but just something nice to keep me happy until I decide on what to do in the longer term.


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## viktorlantos

George Farmer said:


> Plants and hardscape now unavailable.


 
wow that was quick man! 
Looking forward to the new scape


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## Alastair

Some lucky so n so got all the plants and hardscape for a bargain. 

Any hinters on what scape your doing george.


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## aliclarke86

Hi George. Can I ask what you user between the tank and cabinet. I thought that the tank may have been supplied with a mat of some kind. 

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## Antoni

HI George,

this is great setup and I'm gonna miss it somehow  

But look forward the new one with anticipation!

Could you please tell me, what was the working pressure you have your reg set at, for maintaining stable bps rate? Have you experienced any fluctuations?


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## George Farmer

aliclarke86 said:


> Hi George. Can I ask what you user between the tank and cabinet. I thought that the tank may have been supplied with a mat of some kind.


Sure. I've used some white foam with a heating mat on top. 



Antoni said:


> Could you please tell me, what was the working pressure you have your reg set at, for maintaining stable bps rate? Have you experienced any fluctuations?


Hi mate. I have my Dennerle reg on about 2.5 Bar. 1BPS, no fluctuations.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

I did a quick re-scape yesterday.

I kept the wood, but removed 99% of the Riccardia for sale.  So there's mostly Fissidens on it now.

Substrate is a 2cm layer of Unipac Maui Sand.

Rocks are collected from a beach in Cornwall.

Lights are suspended 70cm from surface. CO2 down to 30 bubbles per minute. TPN+ 2ml per day. Water changes daily to help minimise algae issues. There's loads of shrimp in there too.

I'm quite happy with the results - a strong basic layout to build upon if I wish.


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## Iain Sutherland

dont envy you trying to split the ricc and fissidens up!
Like the new layout and low maintenance will keep the family happy  definitely a good base and doesnt need a lot more, maybe a few varieties of anubia and vallis nana...
nice.


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## George Farmer

Thanks, Iain. 

Actually the Riccardia peeled off the wood quite easily and the Fissidens stayed on - very stubborn to remove. So it was really easy.

I like your planting plan. I was thinking a tall hairgrass, maybe even planted in a shallow tub containing soil in the background to control it easily.

I was worried about the fish with the spartan feel and bright substrate but they remain bold and colourful. 

I've come up with a plan to trim the moss...

Attach self-sprung scissors to 9mm hose with a cable tie, and siphon-snip simultaneously. Even if that doesn't work at least the moss cuttings will be easy to see on the pale sand.


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## Iain Sutherland

George Farmer said:


> Attach self-sprung scissors to 9mm hose with a cable tie, and siphon-snip simultaneously. Even if that doesn't work at least the moss cuttings will be easy to see on the pale sand.


funny, i just did my first proper moss trim today and tried attaching a 9mm pipe to my wrist with a velcro strap... snip'n'suck mark I needs to go back to R and D


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## Joel S

Nice! I'm not always keen on sand substrate layouts but this is great. I might be extra keen since I spent hours today trimming a moss and hairgrass carpet in my fiddly nano. For the moss I tried a sort of surgery approach with tweezers in one hand and scissors in the other. This worked on a smaller moss trim before, but was pretty useless this time and I'll be picking little bits out for ages.


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## Ady34

How's this doing George?


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## George Farmer

Ady34 said:


> How's this doing George?


Good thanks. I'll post a few pics later.


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

A couple of recent snaps.

I'm not sure how long I'm going to keep this running in its current form. It's really tempting to add loads of other plants but keep the hardscape. 

I can imagine a nice curtain of Tropica's new tall Eleocharis sp. in the background.  Maybe some small ferns amongst the wood, and small crypts in the midground.

I also think black neon tetras would suit the 'scape.  Their dark and light contrast complimenting the dark and light theme of the layout.


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## Rich Jackson

Very nice!


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## Ady34

Looking very crisp.
Are you having to do any extra maintenance to keep the sand clean and algae in check with low plant mass or is it all balanced to the reduced lighting intensity?
Cheers,
Ady


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys.



Ady34 said:


> Looking very crisp.
> Are you having to do any extra maintenance to keep the sand clean and algae in check with low plant mass or is it all balanced to the reduced lighting intensity?
> Cheers,
> Ady


Not much extra maintenance. I usually do 2x 60% water changes every week.  Trimming the moss can take a while but it is therapeutic. This is done every 1-2 weeks.

I like this layout because I can move the wood and rocks around easily to create a new look.  I usually tweak it every few days, with the idea of it getting better every time. It's amazing how much detritus gets stirred up when the decor is moved about considering my low bioload.  The white sand is unforgiving of any dirt which is a good thing to promote cleanliness IMO.


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## Daz2162

This is looking superb George,  i wish i had the eye that you guys have on here.  The wood and rocks look amazing, think it'll look awesome with tall at the back and a few shorter in and around the rocks etc. Really like this one,  looking forward to it being planted. 

I managed to convince the girl last night that its beneficial to my 'art' that a scape will last for 6 months or so then get ripped apart and a new one is started! Only way to progress is to keep practicing!  

Cheers

Darren


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## George Farmer

Inspiring a new generation of aquascapers....


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## Ady34

If my kids go within an inch of my glassware theres no time to blink, let alone take a photo!
No dropchecker, do you dial in your co2 then have no need for it or have you stopped injecting co2 altogether now?
New fish too


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## George Farmer

Hi Ady, 

Yes mate, no drop checker. I just dial in the bubble counter and it stays consistent until the very end of cylinder life. I do check the CO2 at feeding time.

Black neon tetras in there now. Did a photo shoot for a magazine feature today.


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## plantbrain

To simple and not enough going on for you George? 
I felt that way about my 70 Gallon with hair grass and the nice manzy burl hardscape, so I went all Buces.
But....I have my stem plant and color fetish in the 120 gallon also, if all you have is the 1 tank, that's tough.

You must be motivated to work on the tank, this can die back after a few months.

Some tanks balance the labor and the look/owner's interest. I'd say this is a big factor for a successful tank, something I try and seek. If not, I'll break the tank down and keep going till I do.
 Yes, very very true, Fissidens is the most stubborn moss to get off of wood, Riccardia is easy, but ends up all over.


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## Tim Harrison

Sometimes simple is best.


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## aliclarke86

Just been reading through your latest pfk article and I have to tell you I really miss that scape. It was the first of yours that I followed the whole way through and has really inspired me to "up my game" if you will. Well done mate.

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## aliclarke86

Also did you have to import your reg I have searched but dontvseem to be able to find it.

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## George Farmer

aliclarke86 said:


> Also did you have to import your reg I have searched but dontvseem to be able to find it.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


I bought my Dennerle reg from Harrogate Aquatics about 10 years ago. I think the model (Classic-Line Professional) has been superseded now.


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## Joao Marujo

It took some time but i read this journal from page 1 till the end! 

It is inspirational to see all the pics and the detailed information in it. For newbies like me, it was a masterclass and a good learning spot!

Thanks George for spending so many time explaining all the good and bad situations during this scape.

Regards from Portugal!


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## George Farmer

aliclarke86 said:


> Just been reading through your latest pfk article and I have to tell you I really miss that scape. It was the first of yours that I followed the whole way through and has really inspired me to "up my game" if you will. Well done mate.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


Thanks very much. I've yet to see the article in print but look forward to it.

I'll be re-scaping this current layout soon. I'm really tempted to keep the wood again. It's so easy to work with and I can get different look each time, especially if I change the rock type and substrate.  Lots more plants this time - I need my gardening fix. 

Here's a fishy shot. I love black neon tetras. One of my all-time favourites.


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## tim

Looking forward to the next scape George, black neons are awesome fish and very underrated, on a side note pygmy corries display similar schoaling behaviour mid water and are great in larger numbers  I too have missed your updates


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## George Farmer

Hi all,

Some of you may have seen the final tank shot of "Rooted in Nature", entered in IAPLC 2013, ranked 766, and also featured in the latest issue of PFK.

I was hoping for a higher ranking if I'm honest, but this is the unpredictable beauty of the IAPLC and its subjectivity.  I take comfort knowing how much I enjoyed this aquascape myself, and sharing its journey on here. 





And here's the final shot of the next 'scape in the same tank...





New 'scape coming soon... 

Cheers,
George


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## NanoJames

That's a shame about the position George, but I think the 38 pages of replies shows what the UKAPS community think of your tank. Well done mate!


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## aliclarke86

Ranking aside your scape was lovely and UK got a few entries this year, Mr St Worrall getting a very impressive 82nd. Big up the UK 

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## George Farmer

NanoJames said:


> That's a shame about the position George, but I think the 38 pages of replies shows what the UKAPS community think of your tank. Well done mate!


Thank you.


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## Andy D

Both looks are superb and you should be proud. There are many that wish they had your talent!


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## George Farmer

Thanks guys.


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## Pedro Rosa

Andy D said:


> There are many that wish they had your talent!


 
Almost everyone would like that!
His talent, knowledge and will to share...


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## Ady34

Hi George,
i too was a little surprised that you didnt rank higher. The plant health, colour, density, photography, background are all top class and to aspire towards for many including myself. I think following the journal gives you a true sense of the quality of the aquascaping and your willingness to share has been second to none...the sheer numbers of replies and views is testament to this and this is more valuable than a ranking. Im sure many have been inspired by your step by step approach, and the details within the journey will help many to succeed in achieving their own slice of underwater paradise 
Looking critically at the final image, i feel perhaps it may look too clinical, too precise maybe? The stem line maybe a touch too formal for this 'style' of tank and aquascaping. I know you were cutting it fine, but i still beleive that a few more days growth would have given the stems a little more presence and a more natural look....heck its easy to see the health and density, but the judgement will be based on the image alone at that point in time. I also feel that the stems rather than peaking in height at the very right hand corner, could maybe have been shaped to cut back down towards the right slightly with the highest point being just to the right of the highest piece of wood, this would have given a flow over the wood and hinted more at a natural periphery. Within your room and the space in the home, this shape works perfectly though, but that is something the judges wont take into consideration.
Although you removed the cyperus here, it kind of helps the scape as it flows back into the tank from the right, softening the end of the scape just a little...trimming the rotala in the final image to drop slightly back down towards the right hand side could have also given this effect whilst still maintaining the strong triangle configuration. (seems easy to critique other peoples tanks )


George Farmer said:


> FTS 20-4-13 by George Farmer, on Flickr


It is very much like you say though....


George Farmer said:


> but this is the unpredictable beauty of the IAPLC and its subjectivity.


....this is true of not just the IAPLC, but everyone who looks at your work, we all see something different and can have our own feelings about what we see and what we may change, really though....


George Farmer said:


> I take comfort knowing how much I enjoyed this aquascape myself, and sharing its journey on here.


....thats what counts and i just look forward to sharing your knowledge and future aquascapes so one day i will be able to grow aquatic plants so flaming beautifully!!!

A truly inspiring journal 

Cheerio,
Ady.


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## George Farmer

Thanks Ady. I really appreciate your well-articulated thoughts.


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## aliclarke86

Criky. Well said Ady


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## viktorlantos

Cheers George, now that is 2 insane good shots from 2 beauty. And this is all about i guess. I would watch both of them gladly printed on my wall as a poster or calendar.

I would not like to criticize the contest as you said it very well



> but this is the unpredictable beauty of the IAPLC and its subjectivity


 
i still look forward to the same quality stuff from you


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## George Farmer

viktorlantos said:


> Cheers George, now that is 2 insane good shots from 2 beauty. And this is all about i guess. I would watch both of them gladly printed on my wall as a poster or calendar.
> 
> I would not like to criticize the contest as you said it very well
> 
> 
> 
> i still look forward to the same quality stuff from you


Bless you, Viktor.


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## Piece-of-fish

George you unlucky. It is a super healthy tank and so many comments show how good it really is.
I have a feeling though that the second photo is much much stronger as well. It gives completely different feeling to the eye. The angle is also different? Gives deeper feeling and the fact that red plants are less colourfull and tips of green stems lighter add to the effect of depth.
Submitting second to AGA maybe?


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## flygja

Rip up that foreground, pour in some white sand and you'll easily get into the top 50 

Superb superb scape George. I wouldn't care what the judges in any competition think of my scape if I had one with your level of finesse. I do agree with Ady's comments though, was slightly surprised with the image that you submitted. Just looked a bit "plug and play" compared to the one Ady linked.


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## Curvball

As always George, simply beautiful.


Posted from the comfort of my iPhone...


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## David Shanahan

Hi George, do you have any pictures of your yoghurt moss mix? I wanted to get an idea of consistency that you used.


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## George Farmer

Planty said:


> Hi George, do you have any pictures of your yoghurt moss mix? I wanted to get an idea of consistency that you used.


I'm sure there's one somewhere on here.

I used about 5-10ml yoghurt per 100ml of RO water.


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## ghostsword

I think I missed the journal to this one.. 





This is an amazing scape.. Where is the journal for it?


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## tim

Page 12 I think


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## George Farmer

ghostsword said:


> I think I missed the journal to this one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an amazing scape.. Where is the journal for it?


Thanks mate.  I didn't run a journal on that because I only ran it for about a week.


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## viktorlantos

George Farmer said:


> Thanks mate. I didn't run a journal on that because I only ran it for about a week.


 
i never thought there will be a quicker scaper than Mark Evans was 
1 week? That's a headshot to any beginners when they see this scape 
Lovely one. Just for a PFK stuff? or you had a "minimal mood" for a week?


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## David Shanahan

George Farmer said:


> I'm sure there's one somewhere on here.
> 
> I used about 5-10ml yoghurt per 100ml of RO water.



Ah, thought I had seen something somewhere. Thought it was on you DS thread.


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## ghostsword

George, the scape is really a work of art.. maybe one of my favorite scapes.. I am copying that one.. 

Love everything about it.. the rocks, the water movement, the moss, the fish position.. everything is so perfect..


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## abloomer

Loving the scapes, just seen you have a new one up! popping over there next!


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## Puntius

Hi George,

Wow what a journey, well done.

What has been happening with this tank the last few months?

Any updates.


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## aliclarke86

Hannes said:


> Hi George,
> 
> Wow what a journey, well done.
> 
> What has been happening with this tank the last few months?
> 
> Any updates.


George's One-Pot Iwagumi Challenge | UK Aquatic Plant Society

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## aliclarke86

Nathaniel Whiteside said:


> .


Well said

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## Nathaniel Whiteside

aliclarke86 said:


> Well said
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk


Thanks Ali. I've a way with words.


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## brumbird

Hi George

I am a novice fish keeper with a (very) low tech planted tank. I am keen to up my game a bit for tank #2 which is on order, and would love to try the DSM and moss/yoghurt paste on some.red moor root. I am conscious that fissidens and riccardia are classed as 'advanced' on the Tropica website, and I was only planning on using easycarbo and tropica specialised. I thought flame moss might be a good alternative to fissidens as it seems slightly easier to grow, but are their any short/compact mosses you would recommend instead of riccardia? 

This tank was stunning btw, a definite source of inspiration


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## Marius_20

The tank was simply beautiful. I like it.


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## George Farmer

brumbird said:


> Hi George
> 
> I am a novice fish keeper with a (very) low tech planted tank. I am keen to up my game a bit for tank #2 which is on order, and would love to try the DSM and moss/yoghurt paste on some.red moor root. I am conscious that fissidens and riccardia are classed as 'advanced' on the Tropica website, and I was only planning on using easycarbo and tropica specialised. I thought flame moss might be a good alternative to fissidens as it seems slightly easier to grow, but are their any short/compact mosses you would recommend instead of riccardia?
> 
> This tank was stunning btw, a definite source of inspiration


Hiya. Regular Java moss, Xmas moss and spikey moss would all be ok too. Flame moss grows vertically so consider that depending on the look you're after.

Cheers
George


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## Something Fishy

You still got this tank George? I have one to setup and I’m debating what to do with it. Quite like lush green hair grass etc but also with some sand mixed.

Would one AquaRay tablet be enough a bit lower down do you think?


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