# How many cardinal/green neon/b. Briggatae in an ADA 60P?



## lucaz koh (21 Apr 2018)

As title, using an aquarium calculator online, with my tank and Eheim Ecco pro 200 it says I should be able to keep 20 cardinals, 3 otos and 20 shrimp with a stocking percentage of 118%. 

Adjusting for hardscape and substrate that removes some volume, what do you guys think of 15 cardinals? Shrimp will populate but their bioload is almost negligible in most cases. 

Alternatively 25 b. Briggatae or 20 green neons as they’re smaller?

Thanks


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## MattW (21 Apr 2018)

Hi there,

Just a note on the Oto's (Just in case you are still considering) they're often recommended to be kept in groups of 6 or more within an aquarium owing to the fact they're quite sociable fish, who both in the wild and in tank exhibit shoal behaviour.


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## lucaz koh (21 Apr 2018)

MattW said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Just a note on the Oto's (Just in case you are still considering) they're often recommended to be kept in groups of 6 or more within an aquarium owing to the fact they're quite sociable fish, who both in the wild and in tank exhibit shoal behaviour.


Hmm! That is news to me. Will definitely keep 6 then! Any thoughts on the shocking fishes?


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## tam (21 Apr 2018)

Sounds reasonable to me - I'd second upping the otos to 6.


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## sciencefiction (21 Apr 2018)

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to keep so many fish in such a small tank. From my perspective just 10 of the schooling fish, and the shrimp population which will keep growing will be enough. Alternatively 10 ottos but you'll have trouble feeding them in such a small tank and I honestly think they're only suited to larger tanks that provide more surface area. In any case, if the tank is small, it's best they're alone without other food competitors as this is the only way they'll go for human prepared food. No one likes half their tank dead in about 6 months....So no matter that we all want to squeeze as many fish as possible in a small tank, it will not work out well for the fish in the long run.


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## Nelson (22 Apr 2018)

The Briggatae are very small,so 25 would be fine.
They don't like strong flow .


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## lucaz koh (22 Apr 2018)

sciencefiction said:


> Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to keep so many fish in such a small tank. From my perspective just 10 of the schooling fish, and the shrimp population which will keep growing will be enough. Alternatively 10 ottos but you'll have trouble feeding them in such a small tank and I honestly think they're only suited to larger tanks that provide more surface area. In any case, if the tank is small, it's best they're alone without other food competitors as this is the only way they'll go for human prepared food. No one likes half their tank dead in about 6 months....So no matter that we all want to squeeze as many fish as possible in a small tank, it will not work out well for the fish in the long run.


In my previous 2 footer I’ve kept 10 of them together and they did well, was thinking I could push the boundaries a bit this time. Guess I’ll stick to 10 and see how they develop over time.


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## lucaz koh (22 Apr 2018)

Nelson said:


> The Briggatae are very small,so 25 would be fine.
> They don't like strong flow .


The problem is no store near me seems to stock them! Not a big fan of ordering fish and shrimp online, I always have this image of the delivery guys chucking the box about in the warehouse


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## doylecolmdoyle (22 Apr 2018)

I think 20 small fish, 6 otos and many shrimp will be fine, I keep about that amount in my 60p and its fine, even with a smaller filter


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## kadoxu (23 Apr 2018)

This may be helpful to give you an idea on stocking
http://aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php


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## Kalum (23 Apr 2018)

20 cardinals in a tank that size will be pushing it as they are on the bigger side of tetras, might be worth going for neons or green tetras instead which would be fine to have 20 and look great 

I've got a slightly bigger tank (85L instead of 56L) and have got 5 Espei Rasboras, 10 Green Neons, 12 CPD's and 5 Otto's and it's busy but not overstocked or to the point it looks cramped for them at all


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## lucaz koh (25 Apr 2018)

Kalum said:


> 20 cardinals in a tank that size will be pushing it as they are on the bigger side of tetras, might be worth going for neons or green tetras instead which would be fine to have 20 and look great
> 
> I've got a slightly bigger tank (85L instead of 56L) and have got 5 Espei Rasboras, 10 Green Neons, 12 CPD's and 5 Otto's and it's busy but not overstocked or to the point it looks cramped for them at all


I may opt for b. Briggatae or green neons, leaning more towards B.B. due to their small size and cuteness


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## roadmaster (26 Apr 2018)

Oto's would be last fishes I placed in the tank with hopes that nice biofilm or soft algae of some kind might be available in more mature tank/substrate's/hardscape.
No fewer than fifteen cardinal's were it me,and assuming softer water?


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## lucaz koh (7 May 2018)

Thinking either 12 green neons and 12 chilli rasboras as I’ve heard they occupy different levels in the tank. 

Either that or 20 green neons. 

Has my water tested by LFS and still showing some ammonia and nitrite, could possibly be due to Ada Amazonia leaching ammonia though.


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## dw1305 (7 May 2018)

Hi all, 





lucaz koh said:


> Has my water tested by LFS and still showing some ammonia and nitrite


Unless they tested the ammonia with an <"ion selective electrode"> they can't really tell whether you have any ammonia or not. Nitrite you can test for, by colorimetric methods, fairly accurately.





roadmaster said:


> Oto's would be last fishes I placed in the tank with hopes that nice biofilm or soft algae of some kind might be available in more mature tank/substrate's/hardscape.


I agree with @roadmaster if you have <"any doubts about water quality"> it is best just to let the tank grow in before you add the livestock.

cheers Darrel


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## lucaz koh (7 May 2018)

True. Due to my ph being below 7 as tested I suspect it might be ammonium showing up in tests instead of ammonia. 

I will let the tank mature for another week before adding livestock


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## lucaz koh (12 May 2018)

Bit the bullet and added some otos and Amano Shrimp last night. 3 otos and all amanos started grazing almost immediately. 

1 too however, stayed near the bottom of the tank the entire night but is now attached to the driftwood with the others, although looking thin and lethargic still. 

I have decided to let my partner choose the fish as she’s been truly supportive of me getting this tank although we live in a rented house. 

She chose green neons so I’ll be getting 20 of them. 

Will be adding 20 orange shrimp on Monday, how soon after that to introduce fish as the filter needs to catch up on the bioload? Or best to wait till I get back from my trip to Germany at the start of June?


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## tam (12 May 2018)

I'd wait until after you trip. Oto's can have health issues, and if one already looks under the weather I'd treat the tank as quarantined for a few weeks then if they do develop any problems you aren't adding more fish to infect.


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## alto (12 May 2018)

Either way ... Otos seem to rarely share "disease" - likely it's starvation/capture/transport/stress related 

But you may get some inspiration while in Germany 
And I'd look into requirements for bringing back fish, shrimp etc


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## sciencefiction (12 May 2018)

If you're up to daily water changes, you can add the bioload you want sooner rather than later or all at once. Generally, when I add fish I do a lot of water changes. It helps their immune system and fight off the stress and diseases. If adding many fish at once, the weak ones will perish. But if water changes are done, you're giving them a chance of survival. Before adding any inverts, it is generally a good idea de-worming the fish. Kusuri wormer plus, a flubendazole based treatment is a very good choice to do that.  Or you can temporarily remove the shrimp. Flubendazole is fully bio degradable and is otherwise harmless to any sensitive or young fish.


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## lucaz koh (12 May 2018)

Yeah I figured it’s more transport and stress related. No dead bodies around when I had a quick look this morning before popping into work so things are looking good. 

Don’t think I’ll be able to bring livestock back as I’m on a flight and there’s water limits. Dont have check in luggage either


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## lucaz koh (7 Jun 2018)

Can’t seem to find any green neons near me (Sheffield/Leeds/Doncaster). Anyone know where might have some? Most LFS have offered to order them in but it’s a waiting game as they keep getting delayed

Though I saw plenty in Germany!


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## enviroman (7 Jun 2018)

alto said:


> Either way ... Otos seem to rarely share "disease" - likely it's starvation/capture/transport/stress related
> 
> But you may get some inspiration while in Germany
> And I'd look into requirements for bringing back fish, shrimp etc



Working in an aquatics store, otos always arrive really skinny. I always make sure they have been fattened up in the shop for about 3 weeks before buying any.


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## lucaz koh (8 Jun 2018)

Ordered 20 green neons from riverside up in  Scotland for Thursday delivery! Looking forward to it. 

Now, plop and drop or drop acclimate?


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## Aqua360 (8 Jun 2018)

lucaz koh said:


> Ordered 20 green neons from riverside up in  Scotland for Thursday delivery! Looking forward to it.
> 
> Now, plop and drop or drop acclimate?



riverpark?  riverside is another store. Always drip acclimate for best results imo


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## lucaz koh (8 Jun 2018)

Aqua360 said:


> riverpark?  riverside is another store. Always drip acclimate for best results imo


Ah yes, riverpark!


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## alto (8 Jun 2018)

Once you open the bag, it's recommended to add Prime to neutralize any ammonia present - just dilute in some tankwater first 

I use a 5in1 test strip to quickly compare bag vs tank water (or enquire of shop) ... if pH, GH, KH are similar, I just net & add to tank as this is much less stressful than the "fish in a bag" scenario
Note that before adding new fish (I'm assuming you don't have a quarantine tank)
- 50% water change 
- lights off
- reduced CO2 

Drip acclimation should be done with aeration & very dim lighting, also avoid vibration/looming shadow stress - floating plant etc cover is helpful 

If new fish arrive in stressed condition, I leave lights & CO2 off at least 1-2 days (assuming there's sufficient ambient light to observe new fish)


If there are dead/nearly dead fish in the bag, best action is to remove fish from that environs as soon as possible
Again if I know the water conditions of the shipping agent, I'll have prepped some tap water to match
If fish water condition is unknown, I'll still pour off fish into net & add to a clean bucket etc with tank water & Prime, then add air stone etc
Worry about separating out dead fish after
Then consider if these fish are best kept isolated or added to (community) tank


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## castle (9 Jun 2018)

I've acclimated fish like this... for as long as I can remember:

When you get the fish home, leave the bag on surface for 20 minutes. Add a minimum of the same amount of water that's in the bag from the tank to the bag. Leave it a while (20/30 mins), then net the fish out of the bag to add to the tank.​


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