# What Remineralisers are you using ?



## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

Hi all,

Myself and @Hanuman are in the process of adding a more dedicated Remineralising sheet to the IFC Calculator so folk can make their own remineralisers at a fraction of the cost, with dry dosing and/or remineralising solutions which suit smaller tank remineralising also IMO. It also makes it clear which salts are not suitable for remineralising solutions also due to their limited solubility.

(alpha preview below)





Much has been done and still lots to do. We do have a reasonable list of commercial remineralisers below, if your using one that's not on the list *please post* and let us know so we can add them to our database for comparing/cloning




Cheers Zeus.
Data sheet/PDF or pic of data on back of product please, link to website 'if' it there is one -please


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## jamiepearson (2 Feb 2022)

Aqua Balance's GH/KH Buffer Up.
Edit: a 2nd look and I see it's called Aqua Balance but is made by Aqua Source. There's no data sheet on the website or packaging bar 4kg treats 40,000 litres, which increases KH by 2, GH by 4


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## Hufsa (2 Feb 2022)

I am using one not on the list, however I think this brand is only used in Norway and thus might not be critical to have in the calculator? They do a small series of various salts. I tried to find a list of ingredients or ratios but were unable to, does this exclude them from entry? Otherwise I can post names, basic prices and how much gh and kh they add.


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## dw1305 (2 Feb 2022)

Hi all, 
Dash of tap water for me and a conductivity (or conductivity proxy) reading.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> Aqua Balance's GH/KH Buffer Up





Hufsa said:


> I am using one not on the list, however I think this brand is only used in Norway and thus might not be critical to have in the calculator? They do a small series of various salts. I tried to find a list of ingredients or ratios but were unable to, does this exclude them from entry? Otherwise I can post names, basic prices and how much gh and kh they add.


Data sheet/PDF or pic of data on back of product please, link to website 'if' it there is one -please. 
We try to add as many as possible, many was excluded from present version of IFC as the Ca:Mg ratio is unknown - however it has been worked out that if the user chooses the ratio the calculator will do the rest. Most folk/remineralisers use 2.5:1.0 to 4.5:1.0 Ca:Mg ratio and many folk know what parameters they are after so you can just enter your Ca:Mg ratio dKH/dGH choose salts you can get and presto


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## hypnogogia (2 Feb 2022)

I’m using this:


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## Hanuman (2 Feb 2022)

Guys, links to products on website and or MSDS so we don’t have to go looking around. Thank you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hufsa (2 Feb 2022)

NORAQ GH-Salt
It says it increases the total hardness by way of calcium (80%) and magnesium (20%), and that it also adds cloride ions
Dosing: 9 gram per 100 liters of water increases the total hardness by 1 degree dH (GH)

NORAQ GH/TH+
Using it will add hardness from 80% calcium and 20% magnesium. No cloride ions.
Dosing: 8 gram per 100 liters of water increases the total hardness by 3 degrees
The FAQ confirms that this product is 3 times as concentrated with calcium and magnesium ions in relation to "NORAQ GH-Salt"

There is no MSDS available and no useful information on the tubs themselves.
If this is insufficient data then I think it will be best to forget about this product line


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## mrhoyo (2 Feb 2022)

Following this, want to look at African cichlids but have very soft water.


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

jamiepearson said:


> Aqua Balance's GH/KH Buffer Up.
> Edit: a 2nd look and I see it's called Aqua Balance but is made by Aqua Source. There's no data sheet on the website or packaging bar 4kg treats 40,000 litres, which increases KH by 2, GH by 4






Just been on website and units for hardness is little unclear 'increase KH by 2 c'  if its Clarke it should say '2 e' at least  which would convert 2 e KH to 2.3 dKH



your thoughts @dw1305 / @X3NiTH


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

mrhoyo said:


> Following this, want to look at African cichlids but have very soft water.


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

Zeus. said:


> Just been on website and units for hardness is little unclear 'increase KH by 2 c' if its Clarke it should say '2 e' at least  which would convert 2 e KH to 2.3 dKH



I think they’re expressing c as Clarke e° English degrees and not German d°.


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

X3NiTH said:


> I think they’re expressing c as Clarke e° English degrees and not German d°.


So 1c =1.252 dKH


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

No it’s the other way round. 1°d = 1.24°e


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

Obviously I’m going to assume the differences between 1.25 or 1.24 calculated will be down to precision in decimal places and rounding.


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> The FAQ confirms that this product is 3 times as concentrated with calcium and magnesium ions in relation to "NORAQ GH-Salt"


but both products have



so 4.0 [Ca] :1.0 [Mg] - notice the 'about 80% ....' this is typical as with a mixed salt not every spoonful will not have the same Ca:Mg ratio as the salt settles in the container



X3NiTH said:


> No it’s the other way round. 1°d = 1.24°e



 Cheers m8

So




@Hufsa what do you pay per Kilo for the two products - conversion to British pounds '£' at current exchange rates please


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## MichaelJ (2 Feb 2022)

Zeus. said:


> So 1c =1.252 dKH



1 KH is 17.848 ppm of CaCO3

A Clark degree is one Imperial grain (64.8 mg) of CaCO3 per Imperial gallon (4.55L)  or  14.253 ppm of CaCO3 thus 1 Clark is 14.253 / 17.848 =  0.798 KH.

Clarke is equivalent to KH as it is a measure of CaCO3 content...  similarly, if CaCO3 is the only compound that makes up the _hardness_ in the water (i.e. no other Ca or Mg or other minor GH hardness-contributing compounds) then 1 Clarke is also 0.798 dGH...

EDIT: Just to continue to be a stickler, I double checked the units. 1 grain is 64.79891 mg in SI units.  1 Imperial gallon is 4.54609 Liters in SI units  - close enough for all intended purposes.

Cheers,
Michael


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

Wow serves me right for taking shortcuts, this means the Lenntech calculator is expressing the wrong values. Interesting.

Zeus you’re right to begin with, I’m cheating with broken tools, correctly identified by @MichaelJ!


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

X3NiTH said:


> Zeus you’re right to begin with, I’m cheating with broken tools


No you was correct- if you had converted 'Clarke to dGH' and not 'dGH to Clarke'  like @MichaelJ did, but conversion is the same

1 / 1.252 = 0.7987 = 1 x 0.768


MichaelJ said:


> 1 Clarke is also 0.798 dGH.





X3NiTH said:


> No it’s the other way round. 1°d = 1.24°e





So I was wrong


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## Hufsa (2 Feb 2022)

Zeus. said:


> conversion to British pounds '£' at current exchange rates please


I went for the mid range packaging size of 500g, cause they come in jars between 75g and 25 kilos 
398 Norwegian Krone equals 33.30 Pound sterling for 1 kilo. Both products had the same price.

Im guessing theres no way to include the Chloride ions from the one product because we have no idea how much is in there then?


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## MichaelJ (2 Feb 2022)

Zeus. said:


> So I was wrong


Yes. ,,, I weren't entirely sure why @X3NiTH thought he was wrong... as 1 Clarke is 0.798 KH  per my calculation above thus 1/0.798 or 1.253 Clarke = 1 KH.  (which is in accordance with the table from Wikipedia and also what @X3NiTH said above when stating _1°d = 1.24°e_ ). 

Regards,
Michael


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## Zeus. (2 Feb 2022)

Hufsa said:


> m guessing theres no way to include the Chloride ions from the one product because we have no idea how much is in there then?


No, not without the data we are guessing, however they have probably use CaCl2:2H2O, like I did to clone it, or MgCl2.6H2O or a mix of what ever salts are cheap and available





Works out a little cheaper as well 
here another clone with a bit more Cl and a remineralising solution which makes life easier IMO



Cost went up with the remineralising solution as MgCl2.6H2O was used which cost more than MgSO4.7H2O


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## X3NiTH (2 Feb 2022)

I got my head turned around there sigh, ah well were all in agreement then!


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## MichaelJ (2 Feb 2022)

X3NiTH said:


> I got my head turned around there sigh, ah well were all in agreement then!


Yes, and there is absolutely nothing wrong in admitting to be wrong about being wrong - we were both right however


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## MichaelJ (2 Feb 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Dash of tap water for me and a conductivity (or conductivity proxy) reading.
> 
> cheers Darrel


I sort of overlooked this one, but it might just have made my day! . ... speaking of arcane measurements, a dash...  is that like somewhere between a smidgen and a pinch ?


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## Hanuman (2 Feb 2022)

MichaelJ said:


> I sort of overlooked this one, but it might just have made my day! . ... speaking of arcane measurements, a dash...  is that like somewhere between a smidgen and a pinch ?


maybe a bucket load.


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## Kelvin12 (3 Feb 2022)

Another to the list, AZoo.  Readily available here in AU.


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## Hanuman (3 Feb 2022)

Link and/or MSDS please.


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## MichaelJ (3 Feb 2022)

Kelvin12 said:


> Another to the list, AZoo.  Readily available here in AU.


Hi @Kelvin12  can you post a link to the specific product? ... nothing showed up in a google search.

Cheers,
Michael


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## Kelvin12 (3 Feb 2022)

Should have added here AZoo GH plus.    Claims here there is no increase in KH where others do raise K H.


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## Kelvin12 (3 Feb 2022)

Crikey Michael J you do make it hard.....   best I can fo for a computer cave man.....lol.


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## dw1305 (3 Feb 2022)

Hi all,


MichaelJ said:


> a dash... is that like somewhere between a smidgen and a pinch ?


Yes sort of, but it refers to liquids, so somewhere between "_splash_" and a "_glug_".


Hanuman said:


> maybe a bucket load.


That would be if I had softer tap water.


MichaelJ said:


> speaking of arcane measurements


You might be interested in <"this thread"> (on Apistogramma forums) and of course there is always <"the Groat">.

cheers Darrel


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## Zeus. (3 Feb 2022)

Kelvin12 said:


> Crikey Michael J you do make it hard.....   best I can fo for a computer cave man.....lol.





@Kelvin12 what do you pay for the Product and size of bottle you get, we can do maths and convert your currency(bottles of Fosters) to sterling


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## Kelvin12 (3 Feb 2022)

Zeus, we only export Fosters no self respecting Aussie would drink that.......
Azoo comes in 120ml @ $22,  250ml $32.   It was recommended by a couple of breeders and a shrimp forum to use.    
Haven't  been able to find out actually whats in it.   Seems pretty potent. 
Dirk


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## MichaelJ (4 Feb 2022)

dw1305 said:


> You might be interested in <"this thread"> (on Apistogramma forums) and of course there is always <"the Groat">.


A Wodge: "it is actually the official SI unit for all moss, moss is measured in "strands" (0.01 of a wodge), "tufts" (0.1 - 0.25 of a wodge), "wodges" (0.5 to x2 of a wodge) and "tankfuls" (~ x10 wodges)." .... I just cant wait to use that measurement


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## Happi (6 Feb 2022)

Kelvin12 said:


> Zeus, we only export Fosters no self respecting Aussie would drink that.......
> Azoo comes in 120ml @ $22,  250ml $32.   It was recommended by a couple of breeders and a shrimp forum to use.
> Haven't  been able to find out actually whats in it.   Seems pretty potent.
> Dirk


Most likely they use calcium and magnesium chloride, especially if they say it doesn't raise the kh.


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## Zeus. (31 Mar 2022)

The 'sands of time' are running low on remineralising agents to be added
List on the IFC database so far is



Once it is released with the remineralising sheet it may be some time before we add more


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## Hanuman (9 Apr 2022)

The file is now in my hands after @Zeus. did the heavy lifting. I hope to finish before the end of April.


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## Zeus. (9 Apr 2022)

Due to the uncertainty of what parameters some products produce we have had to remove some products.
The issue to due to some products being unclear or misleading if its Permeant Hardness or Total hardness ( dGH + dKH), typically they give 'total hardness' then a GH :KH ratio which is hard to get to the bottom of with Total hardness and Permeant hardness being used  interchangeably. Where the product has a clear details of the dGH and/or dKH or has %w/w for elements/compounds we are happy to have it in the IFC. If it isnt clear we are not happy to give possible incorrect data of a product.

We fully understand that when making remineralising salts/solution the maths will give certain accurate parameters, then if the parameters are measured once added to tank it may show a different parameter. This is due to water being complex and interacts with rocks/aquasoil/ferts etc which can change the parameters being aim for-  this is normal, testing parameters is an other minefield in its self all together.

If you are after a certain dGH and/or dKH and a Ca:Mg ratio the new remin sheet hits the make IMO, the cloning feature is just a little bonus.
new revised list







Hanuman said:


> The file is now in my hands after @Zeus. did the heavy lifting. I hope to finish before the end of April.



If I've done the heavy lifting @Hanuman polishes/debugs/triple checks/corrects all my work, plus manages the releases. We both spend many-many hours trying to get it as good and user friendly as possible.


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## Zeus. (6 Jul 2022)

Just an update the new remineraliser sheet has been release and it in the latest release of the IFC Calculator
(It was release quite a few weeks back but forgot to update this thread )


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## Aqua sobriquet (6 Jul 2022)

dw1305 said:


> Hi all,
> Dash of tap water for me and a conductivity (or conductivity proxy) reading.
> 
> cheers Darrel


Yes, me too. Your advice all those months ago to use rainwater for my two Nano’s is still much appreciated. 
I laughed the other day watching a guy struggling with 50L of RO water from the LFS. I wonder how much he paid for it, any ideas?


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## dw1305 (7 Jul 2022)

Hi all,





Aqua sobriquet said:


> Yes, me too. Your advice all those months ago to use rainwater for my two Nano’s is still much appreciated.


That is an advantage of hard tap water for rain water users, and I'd guess that most rain water users have hard tap water.

Cheers Darrel


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