# Are partly rotten autumn leaves are safe ?



## Daneland (1 Apr 2018)

I am planning to keep Apistos.I will use RO water and some leaves to change water and overall environment. My tap water is rock hard.If I use 50-50 RO tap mix TDS will be around 250. I think addition of some oak leaves will help imitate their natural environment too.Now we are in spring and all leaves I can collect from woods are partially rotten. But are they safe to use and is it really important to have leaves in the tank for apistos?


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## dean (1 Apr 2018)

Leaves are ok half rotten or not 
They only breakdown and rot in the aquarium anyway 
Make sure that they won’t of been sprayed with any pesticides 
If in doubt buy almond leaves 

Leaves are used to leach tannins, lower ph etc 


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## Daneland (1 Apr 2018)

dean said:


> Leaves are ok half rotten or not
> They only breakdown and rot in the aquarium anyway
> Make sure that they won’t of been sprayed with any pesticides
> If in doubt buy almond leaves
> ...


 I just thought that they harbour too much bacteria and possibly some pathogenic if rotten outside.Otherwise I can see your point. Almond leaves are really good, the only issue they are not free... (Am I too tight ?!?)


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## Angus (1 Apr 2018)

Properly dry them before adding them to the aquarium, but it is best if you can get oak leaves from a sheltered place that are already dry.


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## dean (1 Apr 2018)

If you’re worried spread them out on baking sheets and pop them in the oven 200 will kill off anything plus dry them out 


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## tam (1 Apr 2018)

They'll rot quickly if they are already partially decomposed. You can buy batches pretty cheaply on ebay aimed at reptile/vivariums.


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## dw1305 (2 Apr 2018)

Hi all, 
Beech (_Fagus sylvatica_) hedges and small Oak (_Quercus robur_) trees will still have last years leaves hanging on them for another couple of weeks (until the new leaves break). If you can find a Camellia (flowering at the moment) then the shed leaves are really resistant to decay, another option is _Magnolia grandiflora  (_this is one of the leaves they sell for vivariums_), _again shed leaves will be fine.

cheers Darrel


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## jameson_uk (2 Apr 2018)

Due to a small child and laziness I have a huge amount of oak leaves in the garden in various stages of decomposition.  I had thought about adding these to the tank as the corys seem to love rummaging in the IAL leaves I have added.

Am I right in thinking that oak won't affect tank parameters that much?


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## zozo (2 Apr 2018)

jameson_uk said:


> Am I right in thinking that oak won't affect tank parameters that much?



Whatever you use, to alter water parameters within the water change periode you likely need to drop a shopping bag full of leaves into the tank.. With doing water changes weekly resseting the water column it doesn't change a bit. I once gave it a try with Peat pellets JBL Tormec in the filter 300 grams should according description lower kH with 3 to 7° and pH is not stated but should alledgedly lower as well. It also doesn't state a time periode.. But it collored the water coffee brown in days but it didn't alter the parameters, kH didn't drop and pH didn't drop it only went darker, too dark actualy. Than doing weekly water changes anyway it's a total waste of money and effort.. It doesn't get the time to do anything significat regarding parameters. Not doing water changes could be an option, but you might run into troubles with this and at one time you have to which will change and resset it again. Resulting in major fluctuating parameters which also is no good. The whole parameter changing propperty is an old fashion story way back from times water changes where deemed unhealthy and a sinfull practice.

Nowadays it's only the tannins, the food and the shelter and decoration it provides, the major pro and aim.


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## Daneland (2 Apr 2018)

zozo said:


> Nowadays it's only the tannins, the food and the shelter and decoration it provides, the major pro and aim.






Do you think I can get away 20% WC weekly with half measure estimated index?After I drop my TDS around less than 200 I need mostly RO water nad making bigger WCs will be expensive and difficult.


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## dw1305 (2 Apr 2018)

Hi all,





jameson_uk said:


> Due to a small child and laziness I have a huge amount of oak leaves in the garden in various stages of decomposition.


They will do, just take the less decomposed ones. You could try adding a small amount of the more decomposed ones, I expect the Cories will find bits to eat from them.

cheers Darrel


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## zozo (2 Apr 2018)

Daneland said:


> Do you think I can get away 20% WC weekly with half measure estimated index?After I drop my TDS around less than 200 I need mostly RO water nad making bigger WCs will be expensive and difficult.



I realy do not know the minimum water change in % required.. I'm from the era when water changes still were consideren bad and stincky aqauriums were a pre.. And i still remember the old swamp smell in the room and it wasn't doom and gloom all the time. Only if it crashed it crashed big time.. There are also threads enough to find about limiting or no water changes at all. From people copying the older revised Walstad methodes and didn't do water changes for over a year.

Personaly i'm in an easy ball park and blessed that i live in an urban erea, with gold out of the tap for the aqaurium keeper. So for me it would be easy to say 50% is necessary.. I don't have to think about it, the randonly advised 50% is peanuts in my situation it sounds reasonable and it keeps my fish healthy.

It's trail and error and a very induvidual experience or role with the dice so to say.. Not only about TDS.. With doing less water changes you also add risk of accumulating pathogens and parasites. 

What's your hobby worth to you regarding fish health? And how far are you willing to take a risk? Questions i'm not willing to answer with a number.. 50% serves me well so far..


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## Nanglebadger (4 Apr 2018)

I've been using oak leafs collected from my front garden for the last few months with no adverse effects - I laid them out on kitchen roll in the hotpress for a few weeks, then store them in a paper bag. I usually pre-soak them for a few days to water log them, or pour some boiling water over them before adding. The corries seem to enjoy rummaging around in them. There is a small amount of tannin leaching but thats the effect I'm going for anyway. 

In fairness I have tried to gather mostly whole, un-damaged/un-rotted ones though where possible. 

Phil.


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## Kezzab (4 Apr 2018)

I just pick oak/beech leaves off the ground and put them straight in the tank. No issues here... So far!


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## Daneland (3 Jun 2018)

I added plenty of hedge beach and oak leaves, a few alder cones and mixing with water 80% RO. pH is still 8. I keep reading about sphagnum peat to reduce pH and hardness. But I not sure how I will do it. First the peat should I buy this I use sponge filters or this. Secondly, I use an air driven sponge filter. Should I make balls of peat with tights and leave in tank and change periodically every month or so or should run a circulation pump/water bottle the water filled with peat balls ?


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## dw1305 (3 Jun 2018)

Hi all, 





Daneland said:


> I added plenty of hedge beach and oak leaves, a few alder cones and mixing with water 80% RO. pH is still 8.


It is because you have hard (carbonate rich) tap-water. The pH of water depends upon the CO2~carbonate equilibrium, and you only need a low level of carbonate hardness to raise the pH to the ~pH8 value (which is the equilibrium value when you have 400ppm  of atmospheric CO2). There is a more complete discussion at <"Aquasoil pH increase">.

I don't worry too much about pH (basically as you get towards pure H2O pH becomes less and less meaningful), I just use <"electrical conductivity" as an indicator of the base status of the water">. 





Daneland said:


> Should I make balls of peat with tights and leave in tank and change periodically every month or so or should run a circulation pump/water bottle the water filled with peat balls ?


Have a look at <"Apistogramma Forums: Lowering pH with peat....">.

cheers Darrel


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## alto (4 Jun 2018)

My tap is basically rain water (KH 0-1, GH 1-2 ... ie one drop of KH solution & color change is done etc)

So peat is grand at dropping "pH" (in very soft water, "pH" shifts dramatically with just a drop of whatever acid or base solution in a litre of water (or 5 litres for that matter)) 

Be very careful of using garden grade peat, it's common for it to include other components in the "formulation" - depending on locale, these may not be required to be listed in any way ...


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