# Shell dwellers (talk to me )



## Dadofthree (9 Jul 2019)

Hi guys i need info on these little guys size of tank shallow or deep how many per gallon usual info please and availability many thanks


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## zozo (9 Jul 2019)

KIng Of DIY made a few informative videos on them..


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

The Cichlid Forum is an excellent source of information

Tanganyika shell dwellers
https://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/category.php?cat=14

Shellie articles
https://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/shelldweller_corner.php

Aquarium Setup
Tang Part 1 and Part 2
https://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_setup_list.php

It’s also very worthwhile reading through the Cookie Cutter set ups (Quick Reference section in the Library)
- these are based upon what will “work” rather than what may “work” in the long term

eg, 10 gal (standard dimensions)




> Select one group from one of the following species:
> 
> •  _'Lamprologus' brevis_ - 1 pair
> -OR-
> ...


Note that L speciosus and L ocellatus  are not included in this list despite their diminutive size as they display more aggression and require more area  (though there are occasional (experienced) fish keepers with breeding pairs of both in 10 gal tanks ..... I’m a bit sceptical this will work long term (fish should thrive not just maintain))


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

I’ll also disagree with Joey’s suggestion that pH 7.6 is sufficient longterm for Tanganyikan fish - there are fish  behavioural studies on keeping Rife Lake fishes at lower pH (increased aggression and other effects)
It’s well documented that pH often affects development of eggs and fish


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

Too late to edit 

Adjusted pH does not = unstable/fluctuating pH when done properly 
(more preparation, testing etc)

It’s just *a lot* easier if tap is already inclined in the direction you wish to go


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## Dadofthree (9 Jul 2019)

Thanks for the input i have 8.0 ph out the tap have kept very large mbuna tanks 100+ fish with great success in the past i just love the look and interest these fish give
I have 2 spare tanks at present
Fluval f 60 approx 90ltr 600x450 foot print
Also a ciano 80. 80cm x 40cm x 25 cm approx im thinking maybe the later being more suitable


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## Dadofthree (9 Jul 2019)

Do you think i could go 2 trio 6 fish neolamprologus multifasciatus in the fluval f60


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

Likely both would work
I’m always cautious with shallow tanks - make sure to get tank bred if you use this one 

I added rocks and plants and Paracyprichromis nigripinnis for upper levels in my Shellie tank (both were wc at the time but lots more TB available now, also some bred at the Lake Stations - of these, some are still more “wild” )

Depending which fish, I might add some Tanganyika Buffer (eg Seachem)


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

Dadofthree said:


> neolamprologus multifasciatus


These breed like bunnies and form a multigenerational colony - unless you have a place to home juveniles, I’d look for a less prolific species 
It can always be tricky to blend Tang’s, unless you’re getting unrelated trios, I’d just do one
Of course if you have to special order fish, it’s tempting to get at least 2 males just in case, so right back to 2 trios


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## Dadofthree (9 Jul 2019)

Thanks. alto for your expert advice if you don't mind id like to lean on your experience. In the future setup regards Alan


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## alto (9 Jul 2019)

Sure
But it’s been awhile and lots of species I have no experience with 

TCF was a friendly community (at least the Tang side ) back when

FWIE most Mbuna are “easy” in terms of water parameters, compared to Tang’s - they won’t die suddenly but will wane and disappear overtime

The 3 Shellie’s listed in the 10g Cookie Cutter are some of the most water tolerant Tanganyikans (Ocellatus, Speciosus can fail to thrive despite everything being apparently just fine)


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## dw1305 (10 Jul 2019)

Hi all, 





Dadofthree said:


> Thanks for the input i have 8.0 ph out the tap


Do you know the water hardness as well? Any of dGH, dKH or mg/L calcium (Ca) will do as a measure of hardness. 

The problem is that all UK tap water now has a pH over pH7 to stop lead (Pb), zinc (Zn) and copper (Cu) (from old pipes) going into solution. The water companies use sodium hydroxide (NaOH) for this. It is a strong base (it disassociates into Na+ & OH- ions), but it doesn't add any buffering, so you can now have soft, alkaline water.





alto said:


> I’ll also disagree with Joey’s suggestion that pH 7.6 is sufficient longterm for Tanganyikan fish





Dadofthree said:


> have kept very large mbuna tanks


Lake Tanganyika is a bit different to lake Malawi, the water is *really* hard and mineral rich, because the catchment is volcanic and you get a lot of strange minerals. 

I get something close to Lake Malawi out of the tap in Corsham, hard water both calcium and carbonate rich, but nowhere in the UK gets anything close to Lake Tanganyika out of the tap.

Even in hard tap water, for Tanganyikan fish, I'd add some more magnesium sulphate (MgSO4.7H2O), potassium chloride (KCl) and sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3).

The great advantage of these salts, <"over Seachem buffers etc.">, is that they are really cheap to buy as "Epsom Salts", "sodium free table salt" and "bi-carbonate of soda". 

The fish don't care about the sodium content of the water, but if you want to <"have plants"> (and I definitely would) you are better of with KCl, rather than NaCl. 

If you can only find <"low sodium salt"> in Sainsbury's etc. you can always use <"potassium bicarbonate"> (KHCO3), rather than sodium bicarbonate, it is just a little bit more expensive.  

cheers Darrel


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## alto (10 Jul 2019)

While the Marc Elieson’s Rift Lake Buffer Recipe & Cichlid Salt recipe has good success, it won’t give you much above pH 8.0 - 8.2, and I’d argue that it’s lacking in significant components if your tap water is soft (often lacking both micro and macro salts)
As always, some fish species will (apparently) do fine, others less so

And I’m lazy, so I let Seachem do my thinking for me 

(I’m also too lazy to find the article(s) listing water parameters at various collection points (of Lake Tanganyika) - Google has it buried somewhere still I’m sure)

Darrel has much better links than I 
eg, he posted this one in another Thread

Lake Tanganyika Riparium 
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/lake-tanganyika-riparium.24956/


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## Dadofthree (14 Jul 2019)

Sorry for the late reply
Out of the tap
Ph 8.2
Gh 18


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## dw1305 (14 Jul 2019)

Hi all,





Dadofthree said:


> Ph 8.2
> Gh 18


That is a good starting point.

You can assume that the dKH is also ~18dKH, and that both originate from the dissolved limestone (CaCO3).  Our tap water is about18 dGH/dKH as well, and it is the value you get when all the alkalinity is from calcium carbonate, and it is due to the carbonate  ~ CO2 ~ pH equilibrium.

I'd still add some <"Epsom Salts"> etc.





alto said:


> (I’m also too lazy to find the article(s) listing water parameters at various collection points (of Lake Tanganyika) - Google has it buried somewhere still I’m sure)


Brichard's values are on the forum, linked in <"Living with really ....">.





alto said:


> Darrel has much better links than I


I've just been on the forum longer.

cheers Darrel


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## Dadofthree (16 Jul 2019)

Wanted in a few weeks 
*Lamprologus multifasciatus*
*Please*


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